IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-02-28

mgedminit is gripping, yes00:00
mgedminthen again I finished Terry Goodkind's _Sword of Truth_ series, despite increasing temptation to throw books at walls00:00
mgedminwhat helped me was that I had no clue about US politics or libertarianism back when I was reading it00:00
lcuki think thats the same for most us government people ;)00:01
* javispedro files a bug that's already fixed in Harmattan00:01
SpeedEvilRichard K Morgan - 'Altered Carbon'. Think the stainless steel rat + nanotech + bond + explosions.00:01
SpeedEvilVery awesome.00:01
mgedminooh, Morgan is fun00:01
lcukjavispedro, mm whats dat00:01
mgedminexcept that I hated _Market Forces_00:01
javispedrolcuk: , part of the albumart crazyness stuff I was commenting previously00:02
povbotBug 9316: Tracker doesn't run album art heuristics for non-mp3 audio files00:02
mgedminloved all his other books00:02
t-tanhi, does anybody know how to boot maemo from SD card?00:02
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mgedmint-tan, there used to be a wiki page describing that00:02
mgedminI never tried it myself00:02
Flandrysounds awesome00:02
mgedminI think you have to install bootmenu00:02
t-tani followed boot it always reboots...00:03
mgedminah :(00:03
MohammadAGt-tan, did u disable the watchdog?00:04
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t-tanMohammadAG: good idea! I should do that00:04
SpeedEvilJohn Ringo is very good for explosions and high-tech soldiery.00:04
Arif_where can I buy an N900 stylus00:05
MohammadAGa 100 bucks and I'll send mine to you00:05
SpeedEvilArif_: ebay00:05
MohammadAGwith free shipping00:05
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RST38h"Sex, violence, destruction of property" - three qualities of good sf according to Heinlein00:05
SpeedEvilRST38h: ringo tends to tick all those boxes. Not usually at the same time though.00:06
* Arif_ sends MohammadAG Zimbabwean 100$00:06
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* RST38h stopped reading this kind of stuff long time ago =(00:06
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MohammadAGthey sell 3 packs00:07
MohammadAG(1, or 2/3 packs)00:08
Arif_what weird language is that00:08
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jaskathe language of mordor00:08
Arif_I hope they accept paypal00:09
SpeedEvilYou can't just paypal into mordor.00:09
MohammadAGArif_, finnish :)00:09
RST38hyou can't?00:09
FlandryAh, so it *is* the language of Mordor00:09
javispedromordor finnish00:09
Arif_a "buy" button would be nice00:10
FlandryMordor: land of of the midnight sun and idyllic lakes00:10
Arif_oh it's just hidden00:10
Arif_and yay00:10
mgedminArif_, they do accept paypal!
colonelqubitI'm trying to convince myself that $500 for a phone isn't too ludicrous. Dell has the n900 for $480 w/free ship. Any cheaper prices out there?00:10
mgedmincolonelqubit, please tell me they ship overseas ;)00:11
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FlandryCall it a mobile computer and it will be easier to convince yourself ;)00:11
Arif_they're €600 here00:11
SpeedEvilAnd remember to count insurance.00:11
mgedminwell, 500 GBP00:11
colonelqubitSpeedEvil: "Dear Sauron, your Paypal account has been temporarily suspended for inappropriate activity, including taking a hit out on two little people. Sincerely, The PayPal Team"00:12
Arif_a hit ?00:12
* mgedmin found a 515 EUR deal for a N900 locally00:12
* RST38h calls his "my precioussss"00:12
colonelqubitArif: rather, a contract00:12
mgedminaccidentally eating them or something, I suppose00:12
* javispedro has been calling his own "my preciousssss" for quite a while today, after 26 days of it being away.00:13
* Arif_ orders 3 styli00:13
mgedmin"Dear Sauron, your order for the one ring has been delayed."00:13
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RST38hjavis: ah how have you survived?00:13
* Arif_ calls his N900 a toy :D00:13
javispedroRST38h: n810, basically.00:13
* mgedmin calls his N900 his "nokia", and his 6600 slide his "phone"00:13
mgedmintechnically they're both Nokia phones00:14
RST38hah right00:14
* Arif_ has the original 660000:14
RST38hwell, n900 is "neopadlog" as far as network names are concerned00:14
* mgedmin is insufficiently inventive and calls his mg-n900-2.local00:14
colonelqubitSpeedEvil: Insurance for a $500, what was it?, ah yes, "mobile computer" might not be a bad idea, but it isn't cheap. 1 year is $64.00:14
SpeedEvilcolonelqubit: no, it's not.00:15
SpeedEvilBut neither is finding you sat on it, and have to replace it.00:15
Arif_I refer to mine as the "en dokuzyüz" too :P00:15
colonelqubitSpeedEvil: fair 'nuff00:15
* mgedmin 's had a little accident with a teapot00:15
SpeedEvilI figure that sitting on it has a rather higher percentage than 10%00:15
Arif_mgedmin it didn't like tea?00:15
javispedrohow often do you plan to sit on it?00:16
mgedminArif_, it survived unscathed, thankfully00:16
javispedroit all depends on that answer.00:16
SpeedEviljavispedro: I sat on my last two laptops.00:16
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Arif_I want a stylus insureance00:16
mgedminjavispedro, "expect" would be more accurate than "plan"00:16
Arif_I'll lose mine every 2 weeks00:16
* javispedro 's n900 hasn't made any high jump yet. 00:17
Arif_mine flew into a girls lap once :D00:17
javispedroah, my preciousss manually made albumart with patched meta tracker.00:17
colonelqubitat risk of talking myself out of buying an n900, does anyone have an idea of how soon we'll see cheaper maemo/meego phones on the market?00:17
Arif_apparently it's not a good idea having it dangle around your neck in a moving bus00:18
SpeedEvilI have real doubts you'll see a cheaper maemo phone this year00:18
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SpeedEvilArif_: Well - if it introduces you to hot girls...00:18
colonelqubitThough the geek factor is nice, I don't really *need* two cameras on my phone, for example... :P00:18
SpeedEvilcolonelqubit: the front camera will cost nokia under a dollar00:18
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cehtehmost high end phones have two cams .. and the front cam is a 50 pence thing, that doesnt add much to the cost00:19
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RST38h50 pences is a lot when it comes to mass producing electronics00:19
Arif_50 cent?00:19
Arif_I doubt it costs nokia 3 cents00:20
SpeedEvilit's more than that00:20
colonelqubitI'm always suspicious of the cameras in cell phones, what with them having to squeeze into such a thin form factor00:20
javispedroand the ir emitter must be so cheap they actually pay nokia for each shipped unit with one00:20
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SpeedEvilthe rear cam is of the order of $2500:20
cehtehwell most other components are more expensive .. gps, touchscreen, display, slider mechanism00:20
SpeedEvilthe GPS is probably under $500:20
Arif_I doubt the whole phone is above $10000:20
cehtehmaybe not sure00:20
Arif_to produce :D00:21
RST38hcehteh: two main articles are the media processor and the display00:21
cehteha lot flash storage also adds up00:21
RST38hcehteh: yea, the RAM/ROM chip is probably the next on the BOM00:21
colonelqubitcehteh: yes, I was going to suspect that the flash storage and screen were $$, beyond initial development outlay00:21
cehtehand my guess will be that the n900 successor may be disappointing for geeks00:21
cehtehmore WAF less features00:22
Arif_as long as it has better speakers00:22
cehtehthe speakers are not *that* bad00:22
FlandryI think they're great00:22
SpeedEvilscreen is only $35 to replace.00:22
cehtehwell great is something else :P00:22
Arif_Flandry, no00:23
SpeedEvil(and another $30 for the touchscreen)00:23
Arif_unless you come from the eyephone00:23
Flandrywe're talking something that fits in a hand00:23
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cehtehArif_: i opt for a subwoofer you can plug into the headphone jack .. that would fix it00:23
Arif_Flandry, may I introduce you to the Nokia 5800, 6233, and N95 (8GB)00:23
Arif_they're all smaller than the N900!00:23
cehtehi mean with decent support. .. that the headphone jack then really carries only bass signal00:24
sarah93wow you should check this
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RST38hN95 is a freaking brick00:24
Flandryi don't really know those but the comparisons suggested the N95 is similar in sound quality00:24
javispedroI hate how each device I've had basically has more background noise than the previous one.00:24
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cehtehanyways .. i am mostly hearing with headphones so i dont really care00:24
RST38hjavis: Hey I have got a doorbell and it has no background noise00:24
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Flandryin any case it's much batter than my previous featurephone,  and that one had great speakers for its time by the reviews00:24
Arif_you can't hear speech from the N900 speakers00:25
Arif_when outside xD00:25
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Arif_well, hardly00:25
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FlandryI am talking about speakerphone mode00:26
cehtehdouble as long battery time would be on my list, yes00:26
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Arif_well it's nearly impossible to watch a movie/listen to radio on the N900 speakers00:26
Flandrystill haven't gotten used to holding my PDA to my face :D00:26
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Flandrywho uses speakers for the radio?00:27
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javispedrothey're Ok00:27
Arif_so you can hear your surrounding00:27
Arif_when doing something00:27
Arif_and leave the phone somewhere in the middle00:27
Arif_I want to walk 3 steps away from it :)00:27
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colonelqubitdoes the FM transmitter work well?00:28
Arif_for me it does00:28
Flandrywell i wouldn't expect to be able to set a phone down and hear it from somewhere elsare for00:28
colonelqubitI've never had a phone or mp3 player with the feature, but it sounds like a slick idea00:28
Arif_Flandry, aw00:28
Arif_I was used to it with my older phone00:29
Arif_maybe I'm just spoilt :)00:29
Flandrymaybe :)00:29
Arif_colonelqubit, it hisses somewhat but that's fixed with FMBoost00:29
colonelqubitArif_: ah, okay00:29
sarah93wow you should check this
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Arif_and you even get the artist/album/title if your radio has RDS :D00:29
FlandryWell i came on to ask about the maintainer for poppler qt and got sucked into this blackhole of time00:29
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Flandrygotta get work done, ttyl :)00:29
Arif_at 23:30 on a Saturday night?00:30
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Flandryonly 17:30 here; the night is young00:30
Arif_living in the past are you :P00:31
Flandrysuch is the life (sic) of a phd candidate :P00:31
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sarah93wow you should check this
sarah93wow you should check this
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nid0way ahead of you!00:32
Arif_o rly00:32
nid0i earnt him a euro towards a bullshit probably nonexistant prize, it seems00:33
Arif_BUT BUT00:33
Arif_the nick was sarah!00:33
Arif_it must be a girl!00:33
nid0clearly a girl then00:33
* Arif_ transmits some Turkish music to nid0's radio00:34
* nid0 turns dream theater back up00:34
* Arif_ hits nid0 over the head with his saz00:35
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Arif_N900 is not getting free Ovi00:40
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cehtehwho needs that with osm..00:41
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Arif_I don't use navigation :D00:41
Arif_I want bug 9020 fixed that's all :D00:42
povbotBug Media player crashes when trying to search in ''All songs''00:42
Arif_go away00:42
Arif_stupid bot :(00:42
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cehtehi want the cam able to write to no fat filesystems00:43
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Arif_but non fat filesystem can't be mounted on wind00z00:44
cehtehi dont care00:44
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Arif_but everyone loves windows ! ;P00:44
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cehtehi dont say everyone should reformat00:45
Arif_but really that should be fixed too yes00:46
cehtehbut that the cam only stores on fat is stupid00:46
Arif_sounds like a lame limitation to me =}00:46
cehtehvery likely artifical00:46
Arif_mp3tag has a new version apparently!00:47
cehtehmay be it should be the other way around and reject ubifs00:47
Arif_OH WELL00:48
Arif_oh well*00:48
cehtehi'll look int this sometime next00:48
Arif_you never know what Nokia's upto :D00:48
cehtehi dont care00:50
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colonelqubitArif_: You can mount ext2/ext3 on windows00:57
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jacekowskinot really00:57
Arif_wh ywould I want to :p00:57
jacekowskiit's only ext2 that you can mount00:57
Arif_I don't have any media in that format O.o00:57
colonelqubitArif_: ext2fsd
jacekowskiand there is no drivers for it bultin00:57
colonelqubitoh, it's not built-in, but that way you don't have to format all of your media as FAT3200:58
jacekowskicolonelqubit: it fucks up filesystem more often than it doesn't00:58
Arif_I format mine as NTFS :P00:58
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colonelqubitI've had good experiences w/it00:58
jacekowskicolonelqubit: try mounting unclean FS with it00:58
nid0home users arent going to have to want to install extra shit on windows to just make their n900 plug in and show up00:58
colonelqubitthat can work, too00:58
colonelqubitfair 'nuff00:59
Arif_home users don't know what a filesystem or driver is00:59
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nid0exactly, they want to just plug it in and have it work00:59
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* Arif_ is a home user =}01:00
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cehtehanyways .. anyone knows/investigates how the camera takes pictures and saves them?01:01
colonelqubitthe 800lb Windows juggernaut wins again. So sad01:01
jacekowskicolonelqubit: it's about simplicity01:01
jacekowskicolonelqubit: and fat32 is much simpler fs btw.01:01
cehtehthere is the omapcamd and the camera-ui ...01:01
jacekowskicolonelqubit: you can read and write it using 8bit uC01:01
Arif_if everyone was using ext2 that one'd "win"01:01
colonelqubitjacekowski: too bad Microsoft likes to sue people for using fat3201:02
nid0clearly ntfs is the way to go tbh!:(01:02
cehtehi wonder if nokia has licensed it :P01:02
Arif_I wonder what happens if I format the 27GB to NTFS01:03
cehtehcam prolly cant write to ntfs either01:04
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nid0if you format the mmc to ntfs01:04
nid0the n900 will probably say "fuck that"01:04
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Arif_the media player sesm to say that a lot :P01:05
jacekowskias somebody said01:05
jacekowskinokia has a list of patents they don't give a shit about01:05
Arif_apparently Apple didn't read that list ;(01:05
* cehteh needs symlinks on the filesystem .. fat doesnt support symlinks .. grr01:05
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cehtehmaybe i reformat the internal storage to ext3 or ext4 and use fat on the uSD01:06
Arif_you should!01:07
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ali1234does anyone know why the camera app needs fat?01:08
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t_s_ough, seems like the big cultural change on the forum is the "me wants working feature x, now!" vs "hmm, could be nice if it could do x", and the willingness to report bugs in a factual, calm way...01:08
t_s_oor lack of latter, that is...01:09
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cehteht_s_o: no wonder01:09
cehtehwith the current roller-coaster ride, nokia treats the community01:09
pupnik"The legacy that we leave on this earth comes down to the principles by which we lived. It is the ideas we hold, and the way we've pursued them that are the source of our immortality."  - Lew Rockwell01:09
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cehtehand a lot more end-users and not geeks buying the device now too01:10
Arif_everyone on the forum is saying that you should've researched before buying it01:10
Arif_which is stupid ;P01:10
t_s_oheh, yep, i do wonder how many of the N900 users are teens with dads credit card...01:10
cehtehyeah .. the more people buy now, the better01:10
Arif_hey, I'm a teen with my own money01:11
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cehtehwell .. if all developers have a n900 they prolly dont want the successor model01:11
ab3339u should v researched than :)01:12
cehtehso nokia should be forced to provide meego for the n900 too, otherwise they dry out of community developers01:12
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pupnikthere is an interesting point cehteh01:12
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cehtehand comparing vs ovi store repos you clearly see where the hammer hangs01:12
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Arif_ovi store?01:12
Arif_what store :P01:12
cehtehpupnik: i always saied that .. kids: code for the device you own, dont care about the rest01:13
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t_s_ocehteh: i guess thats why nokia was handing out free devices for devs01:13
t_s_otho that discount program got fumbled...01:14
cehteht_s_o: well i dont know how big the return (in sense of work done) was01:14
MohammadAGanyone using Vagulume?01:14
t_s_oto i guess the fumble came from a "missunderstanding" between "old" nokia and "new" nokia01:14
cehtehthere where likely 1000 devices handed out .. but possibly only a few of the owners do really develop apps on it01:15
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t_s_ocehteh: it seemed to shift the focus away from the N8x0 at least01:15
cehtehand there are many many more devs who had already to buy a device01:15
cehtehand consider my very little contribution to xchat .. which took me about a workday to do, i i had coded on a freelance base that work would almost equal a n900 ..01:16
cehteh(ok forget about taxes)01:16
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MiXu- ouch... Maemo SDK virtual image comes with 512MB of ram by default :D01:17
MiXu-I was wondering why it was so damn slow01:17
cehteh.. thats why i need symlinks on the device .. to install the sdk there in a chroot01:18
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pupnikanyone here put a compiler on N900?01:18
MiXu-I use my N900 as my main phone. I'll keep my dev stuff far away from it until it's "ready for testing". :)01:18
cehtehyou cant yet .. at least not easily01:19
cehtehthe devel/sdk packages are not optified01:19
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cehtehbut you need some decent filesystem space to put it on it01:19
ali1234create a loopback ext2 image on the fat partition, mount, install chroot01:19
villagercehteh: my cyborgeye app is capable of taking pictures much like camera-ui, though that's not my app's purpose, I just threw some code in for fun01:19
pupnik:( cant i trick packages into installing into mmc somehow cehteh ?01:20
cehtehand symlinks ..01:20
cehtehpupnik: my plan is to reformat some space to ext3 or ext4 and doing a chroot there01:20
pupnikty ali1234 guess a chroot is the way01:20
cehtehcompletely isolating it from the rest of the device01:20
villagercehteh: it'd be pretty easy to use nokia's gstreamer stuff to make a camera-ui clone01:21
cehtehyeah loopback ext2 or fuseext2 may work too01:21
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cehtehvillager: i dont want a clone .. and who here figured out that its really hard to access some special features like whitebalance focus and stuff?01:21
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villagercehteh: it's easy with the nokia's gstreamer stuff, hard without01:22
cehtehvillager: i am thinking about figuring out how it writes stuff to the disk and hack a LD_PRELOAD in which cheats it pretending anything is a FAT01:22
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ali1234cehteh: can you strace the camera app to see why it fails?01:23
javispedrocehteh: optifying a package is trivial01:23
javispedrounless it's not, of course.01:23
villagercehteh: I unfortunately found out that if I used the binary blob from nokia, I could no longer control exposure manually, the automatic stuff kept overriding it... oh well01:23
cehtehali1234: sure ... but not completely trivial and i had no time/success yet01:23
cehtehthe camera is a daemon and a gui ...01:23
cehtehvillager: yeah you straced it already or?01:23
javispedroiirc the camera FAT problem was solved in tmo01:24
cehtehdont you think the ld_preload would be the simplest hack and valuable for anyone?01:24
cehtehjavispedro: how? link?01:24
villagercehteh: yes... it calls private ioctls in the kernel, and the kernel relays the request to the userspace daemon01:24
cehtehdoes the daemon write to /tmp and then some spool copies it over or does the daemon write it to the device?01:25
villagerthe daemon isn't responsible for disk i/o01:25
cehtehi noticed that the daemon has a optarg pointing to /tmp01:25
cehteh  766 root     14972 S    /usr/sbin/omap3camd -d /dev/video0 -f /tmp/omap3camd001:26
javispedrocehteh: "This seems like the best solution to me. Perhaps now that the camera is working with non FAT partitions the loopback file is not necessary."
javispedrobut I didn't found the actual solution.01:26
javispedromy guess -- some case sensitiveness issue.01:26
villagercehteh: that's probably a unix socket or something01:27
villagerpossibly the way the daemon communicates with the kernel01:27
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javispedroor a permission issue.  I doubt the camera app checks the target filesystem.01:28
cehtehstrangely i never see anything existing there01:28
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villagercehteh: the file is probably unlinked as soon as the socket is connected01:29
villagercehteh: do you really have issues with camera-ui and fat? I thought I read that it's a permission issue, not a filesystem issue?01:29
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cehtehi have no issues with the camera ui .. but i need a better (unix) filesystem01:30
cehtehneeding symlinks01:30
cehtehwell and performance and stability .. and recoverability ...01:30
cehtehjavispedro: yes all 'workarounds' i seen involve keeping a fat filesystem .. isnt that crap!?01:31
mgedminwhat is that thing about camera and fat anyway?01:32
mgedminis there a bug?01:32
javispedrocehteh: not IMO, but well.01:32
cehtehmgedmin: nobody knows01:32
javispedrocehteh: i'm pretty sure that if he said it's fixed, then it's fixed without a fat partition anywhere.01:32
cehtehsome say its a feature preventing accidental writes to the rootfs when the mmc is unmounted01:33
cehtehjavispedro: show me how/where please ..01:33
mgedminmakes sense01:33
ali1234that would make sense. usb mass storage mode screws us again01:33
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mgedminlet me guess, the camera app is closed source?01:33
javispedrosee above post.01:34
SpeedEvilIt's so awesome, it's gotta be closed!01:34
mgedminoh, a permissions issue01:34
* timeless_mbp chuckles01:34
javispedroas I though.01:34
mgedminmalice, incompetence, etc.01:34
timeless_mbpclaiming that the camera has a bug01:34
javispedroand they spent nearly 5 pages trying to guess what was happening.01:34
jacekowskieverything can be reversed01:34
timeless_mbpfor a situation which it explicitly doesn't support01:34
cehtehjavispedro: cool01:34
timeless_mbpis insane01:34
timeless_mbpwould you  guys please reprogram your 'bug' reporters?01:35
timeless_mbpas fat doesn't support ownership01:35
timeless_mbpit hardly makes sense for the camera app to try to create a folder with a specific owner...01:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: (feature) MEH01:35
javispedroevery bug is "a situation the program doesn't explicit support". now the question is "was the program expected to support it?"01:35
cehtehhehe . 'some say' ..01:35
mgedminit's Not Right01:35
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timeless_mbpjavispedro: it's very clear that a non fat partition was *not* a supported configuration01:36
cehtehtimeless_mbp: well that pretty well explains why it doesnt work and how it can be fixed01:36
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* cehteh going to reformat 01:36
* javispedro 's happy with FAT01:37
timeless_mbpit seems odd to me that 'camera' would be able to create a folder owned by root01:37
* timeless_mbp didn't think camera ran as root01:37
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timeless_mbpcamera is running as user01:37
mgedmintimeless_mbp, see, this is why I want my computers to run open-source software, because a trivially-supportable combination of features gets rejected as "NOTABUG according to The Holy Spec"01:37
cehtehthe camera daemon does01:37
ali1234the weird daemon thing might do it01:37
timeless_mbpcehteh: does it have a name?01:38
cehteh 766 root     14972 S    /usr/sbin/omap3camd -d /dev/video001:38
timeless_mbpps doesn't find wierd-camera-daemon01:38
villagerit'd surprise me if the daemon did it01:38
mgedminfixing the thing in an open-source project would take less energy than all this arguing about what is a bug and what isn't01:38
Arif_build your own open source phone :P01:38
javispedroI doubt the daemon does the write01:38
timeless_mbpbuild your own open source camera01:38
villagerhowever, camera-ui is autostarted by a root process, perhaps it happens before the camera-ui drops permissions01:38
timeless_mbpjavispedro: surely strace could tell you quickly?01:39
javispedrotimeless: strings told me it even faster01:39
timeless_mbpwhat did it say?01:39
javispedrono DCIM, MYDOCS, nor link to hildon-fm01:39
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cehtehok as soon maemeo mapper finished with the map downloading i make a backup and reformat01:40
javispedrocamera-ui contains both mydocs and dcim strings.01:41
cehtehlets try this extended kernel thing :)01:41
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cehtehgoing ext4 ..01:41
villagertimeless_mbp: camera-ui is started at boot by the dsme subsystem, which runs as root... it's possible that the camera-ui doesn't change uid to user immediately, but mkdirs a bit first, I suppose01:41
timeless_mbpvillager: i'll buy that01:42
ali1234so camera-ui goes off making directories and who knows what else before dropping privileges that sounds like a bug to me01:42
cehtehdoes anyone of you know whats the underlying blocksize of the emmc and uSD?01:42
ali1234but it is also possible the camera-ui just asks the daemon to make the directory01:42
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SpeedEvilcehteh: ~128K I think01:43
SpeedEvilcehteh: based on some preliminary benchmarks01:43
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cehteheww ... to big to use as filesystem blocksize .. i hoped for 16k or 32k01:43
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SpeedEvilI haven't worked it out properly though.01:44
cehtehwell such big blocks are reasonable for flash01:44
cehteh4k blocks are the biggiest for ext01:45
javispedrostripe-width to the rescue I guess.01:45
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cehtehyes my thinking01:46
cehtehwhats the 'fragment' size for?01:46
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villagerali1234: after having written my own app using the nokia camera framework, I highly doubt it's the daemon's responsibility to write the files, the gstreamer plugin handles everything needed to transfer the photo to the user process, and lets it deal with storing it to disk or whatever01:46
nid0ok so dumb question, what are sane settings within maemo mapper to get it to predownload a realistic amount of map data?01:46
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villagerali1234: so my guess is that it's a bug in camera-ui making directories before dropping privileges01:47
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cehtehnid0: dont .. i am sucking and the servers are damn slow :P01:47
SpeedEvilnid0: where you need to go, to the level you need it to.01:47
nid0just ticked it to download me zoom levels 1-4 of google maps and it's asked me to confirm the download of (and i quote) 1041882136 maps01:47
SpeedEvilAnd no more.01:47
nid0seems a little off to me..?01:47
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* DocScrutinizer points to cam frontend "sorage location" setting01:47
SpeedEvil1-4 should be I think...01:48
cehtehwell consider that every increased (lower) level quadruples the data01:48
SpeedEvil256 tiles on the 4th level01:48
SpeedEvilnid0: maybe it's backwards, and 1-4 is the highest zoom?01:48
nid0it doesnt quite break down exactly how much data is involved in the download of that 1.04 billion maps though..01:48
nid0its 4 of the most detailed, 0 is most detailed, 20 is like the whole planet01:48
cehtehnid0: i am at 6GB downloaded now or so :)01:48
nid0all i want is just a reasonably accurate map of the uk, basically :<01:49
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SpeedEvilbinary maps use _LOTS_ of space01:49
nid0yeah no kidding01:49
SpeedEvilconsider a bit per meter.01:49
SpeedEvilmeter square01:49
SpeedEvilthat's over 100km*100km 10^10 bits.01:49
cehtehlevel 6 or so should enogh .. open maep .. zoom full in ..01:49
cehtehthat 001:49
SpeedEvilor a gigabyte01:49
cehtehand then zoom out and count 1 2 3 ...01:50
nid0am i right in thinking that the default lat/long in the manage maps section is the area you're currently actually looking at on the map?01:50
SpeedEviland that zoom level may not be enough for navigating in small streets01:51
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cehtehyes (i hope so)01:51
* cehteh just does some insane downloading01:51
SpeedEvilJust remember you can't legally cache google tiles.01:51
cehtehabout 100km around where i live01:51
nid0screw legally, i just want a working nav suite01:51
SpeedEvilAnd also that if you're gonna hammer the OSM servers be moderate.01:51
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SpeedEvilTehy are almost maxing out their 100mb upstream at times01:52
* cehteh has some squid hacks for OSM01:52
SpeedEvilAnd persistant downloaders will get banned.01:52
nid0..yeah zoom level right down to 0 does seem a little excessive for navigation01:52
SpeedEvilDo not use more than a couple of threads to download.01:52
javispedrowho downloads non vectorial data from osm?01:52
SpeedEviljavispedro: many apps01:52
cehtehmy squid will cache anything for 5 months or more .. no matter what expire time was attached there01:52
cehteh(only for osm tiles)01:52
cehtehmaking osm faster than google maps at home :)01:53
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: so maybe the 0-length-tiles issue in tango isn't exactly packet loss of my gprs?01:53
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: for OSM01:53
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: well - I doubt it - they aren't that flooded01:54
SpeedEvilit's just if everyone downloads it all...01:54
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yeah. Also tago map DL via USB seems to work fine01:55
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (FR that is)01:55
* cehteh wonders about bitmap maps vs vector maps .. bitmap cost a shitload of space, but prolly easier to decompress and more battery friendly than rendering vectors01:56
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: btw the suggested workaround to delete all length-0 tiles in cache is another good example why messybox *SUCKS* and you'll eventually want to get the real thing02:00
DocScrutinizerthe real find utility in this case02:00
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: alas I realized my suggestion doesn't pan out too good, as tangogps caches some info internally, so even deleting those crippled tiles takes efefct only after ro restart tango02:06
cehteh7.1G/home/user/MyDocs/.maps/OpenStreetMap I02:07
SpeedEvilI vaguely recall some script to do that02:07
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: restart tango after cleaning cache?02:08
SpeedEvildownload tiles in a tango compliant way02:09
DocScrutinizerwell, tango has a function to do that02:09
DocScrutinizerthe weird thing is those 0-length tiles never seem to happen with buld download of tango. The happen frequently though when tango dynamically pulls needed tiles02:10
SpeedEvilAsk Mr Tcpdump.02:11
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* Arif_ is eating cookies02:12
* SpeedEvil is pondering coupling coefficients of pans.02:13
DocScrutinizerhrmmmm COOOOOKIEEEES02:13
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ?? o.O02:14
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* Arif_ hits SpeedEvil over the head with a pan02:14
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KiborgIs there a known problem for N900 that the USB stops working?02:16
cehtehmhm maemo mapper needs insane amounts of cpu load02:16
Arif_it can break yes02:16
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I've recently found how cheap inductive cookers have become.02:16
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KiborgIt won't load the battery and connect to the comp.02:16
Arif_try the wall charger02:17
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: aah yep. Here same02:17
cehtehKiborg: socket come loose?02:17
javispedroah, the second tracker bug of the day02:17
DocScrutinizernow the coupling makes sense02:17
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Arif_javispedro, it exploded again?02:17
KiborgThe USB port on N900?02:17
javispedroArif_: yes, it lost all of my albumart again.02:17
javispedroArif_: this time due to a missing underscore in a function call.02:18
Arif_what are you doing ;P02:18
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javispedrojust trying to make cover.jpg-style albumart work without having to patch half the platform.02:19
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* SpeedEvil misread that as albumenart.02:19
SpeedEvilWhich would be an odd medium.02:19
Arif_I have all my album art embeded02:19
javispedroyes, that works.02:19
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Arif_I wonder if anyone can reproduce my search bug :P02:20
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Arif_anyone willing to try ? =D02:21
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javispedroI couldn't.02:22
KiborgSo the USB port death is a known problem? Now the only solution is to use the warranty?02:22
ShadowJKif it's already broken no other solution02:23
Arif_buy a new N900!02:23
jacekowskiif it's already out of warranty you could use sales of goods act from 197902:23
jacekowskiand base your claim on reasonable life expectancy02:23
jacekowskiwhich would cover you up to 5 years02:23
ShadowJKno way it'd be out of warranty already ;)02:23
SpeedEvil - tiles from ethernet.02:24
KiborgNah it has a 2 year warranty.02:24
SpeedEviljacekowski: irrelevant02:24
jacekowskior just use warranty02:24
SpeedEviljacekowski: it's within the 6 mo period when it's assumed to be a manufacturing defect02:24
cehtehnot in europe ...02:24
cehteh2 years here ..02:24
jacekowskiin europe as well02:24
jacekowski2 years02:25
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KiborgYes here in EU it has a 2 years warranty. So back to the shop first thing next week.02:25
ShadowJKIt's a bit messy. Nokia has said they'll fix it, but still some repair centres don't want to :/02:26
KiborgSo it is a known problem?02:27
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SpeedEvilkynky: some people have reported it as an issue yes.02:27
SpeedEvilIf it's more of an issue than other phones...02:28
SpeedEvilAIUI there isn't a repair centre solution other than change out the motherboard.02:28
SpeedEvilAt least not an official one02:28
Termana_n810When a heap of people start reporting the same thing - you kno its an issue02:28
SpeedEvilthat's listed in the l3/l4 manual.02:28
SpeedEvilTermana_n810: no, you don't.02:28
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SpeedEvilTermana_n810: You know a lot of people started reporting the same thing.02:29
cehteh/dev/mmcblk0p1           27.0G      8.4G     18.6G  31% /home/user/MyDocs02:29
cehteh/dev/mmcblk1p1           14.8G      6.4G      8.5G  43% /media/mmc102:29
cehteh.. woho ... fits for a backup of emmc to uSD :P02:29
SpeedEvilIf it's not out of line with other phones USB ports breaking - it's not really an issue.02:29
* SpeedEvil backs up his laptop to his phone daily.02:29
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SpeedEvilrsync ++02:29
Termana_n810SpeedEvil - point out another phone thats currently having this problem02:29
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SpeedEvilTermana_n810: bogus point to some degree.02:30
Termana_n810None? So, its an issue then isn't it02:30
SpeedEvilAs it presupposes a community exists round every phone with the same user visibility.02:30
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Termana_n810Even if other phones were having the same problem - its still to some degree an issue02:31
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cehtehdont forget the stockholm syndrome :P02:31
SpeedEvilHowever - the right place to answer this question won't give out the numbers.02:31
SpeedEvilNokia will have numbers on repairs done.02:31
cehtehi mean others dont care if they can not replace the battery :P02:31
ptlthey would02:32
ptlbut then Apple tells them they shouldn't. And suddenly they don't.02:32
ptlneurolinguistic programming!02:33
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Termana_n810pti is describing at least half of Apples seller base02:33
Termana_n810Praise the almighty Jobs02:33
cehtehok .. installing 'kernel-flasher-maemo' .. wish me well02:33
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cehtehmhm this will be a bit pita when the next nokia firmware replaces the kernel without ext4 support .. *thinking*02:34
SpeedEvilopenstreetmap network traffic02:35
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SpeedEvilKick off downloads at about midnight GMT looks best02:36
cehtehSpeedEvil: hey look the release of maemo mapper today had no big impact :P02:36
SpeedEvilWell - ... :)02:36
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bennypr0faneHi i was just prompted to update Ovi suite for windows, does anyone know whether the new version supports N900?02:37
ShadowJKnot really.02:37
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bennypr0faneyou don't know or no support?02:38
ShadowJKI'd assume no support, people are still whining about it02:38
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bennypr0fanewell, the update only just came out, right?02:39
bennypr0faneor has it been awhile already?02:40
bennypr0fanei'm trying to find Ovi suite version info, but no success yet02:40
ShadowJKit's a bit hard to follow anyway02:41
ShadowJKsome people want ovi suite on linux02:41
ShadowJKsome people seem to want ovi suite on n90002:41
ShadowJKbut i havent even opened the threads02:41
bennypr0fanei'm actually not that crazy about ovi suite itself, what i'm waiting for is full syncing support for ovi services (calendar...)02:43
crashanddieanyone good with stepper motors and gearboxes?02:43
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: ##electronics02:43
crashanddiethanks bru02:43
* ShadowJK joins02:44
ShadowJK:Cannot join channel (+j) - throttle exceeded, try again later02:44
ShadowJKlol, guess I wasn't the only one02:44
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bennypr0faneanyone knows when the big firmware update is due?02:48
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* SpeedEvil stabs nokia uk.02:49
* SpeedEvil stabs nokia uk again.02:49
MohammadAG~curse Nokia UK02:49
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Nokia UK !02:49
MohammadAGbennypr0fane, 2010, hopefully ;)02:50
SpeedEvilI hate the delay for new firmware that at some point I may actually invest the 60s in setting up a ssh tunnel somewhere else and updating through that.02:50
SpeedEvilNot looking like it's gonna be today.02:50
SpeedEvilI've still got to finish picking my right big toe.02:50
javispedroIf I keep filling Tracker one-liner bugs that also happen to already be fixed on Harmattan they'll end up kicking me out of b.m.o :)02:51
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, how is that going to help?02:51
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: I was assuming it was the update servers offering differing content on some sort of DNS basis02:52
ShadowJKWell there might be that02:52
SpeedEvilShadowJK: for load leveling updates02:52
ShadowJKBut the biggest issue is the product code02:52
ShadowJKit knows you've got a UK variant02:52
ShadowJKand will only offer UK variants02:52
* SpeedEvil wonders what the UK variant does.02:52
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ShadowJKreplaced the default bookmark to
ShadowJKwhat else?02:53
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (listed in L3/4) any page number?02:53
DocScrutinizer[2010-02-28 01:28:43] <SpeedEvil> that's listed in the l3/l4 manual02:53
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SpeedEvil(12:28:24 AM) SpeedEvil: AIUI there isn't a repair centre solution other than change out the motherboard.02:54
SpeedEvil(12:28:32 AM) SpeedEvil: At least not an official one02:54
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cehtehas usual today ... i'm even surprised that its not throwawas defect device and replace with a new one02:57
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cehtehand it actualls has screws .. no clips and glue ..02:58
ShadowJKi think it might even use one single size of screw for easy disassembly02:58
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cehtehnah there are phillips and torx02:59
DocScrutinizerclips and glue come in on a production of >10^6 units02:59
ShadowJKcehteh: oh :(03:00
DocScrutinizerthere are locations torx head won't match03:00
ShadowJKtorx is annoying, you can have a zillion of them, and then they invent a new 1.33333344455555998 size that you dont have03:00
cehtehmhm i think i hosed my device .. its still playing webradio but doesnt respond to anything else03:01
cehteh(ssh, unlock, slide open)03:01
Lumpio-What's the advantage of torx over other screw heads anyways03:01
cehtehnot even the display turns on03:01
Lumpio-It's like the only common one that requires exactly the correct size03:01
DocScrutinizerI found I opend T5 with a T4 driver without even realizing it03:01
SpeedEvilcehteh: press the power button or pull hte bat03:01
cehtehi dont want to03:01
Lumpio-Well, almost exactly ¬_¬03:01
ShadowJKLumpio-, precisely because it requires the exact size03:02
SpeedEvilLumpio-: less cam-out, better torque03:02
cehtehhad a rsync from emmc to uSD running03:02
SpeedEvilcehteh: it's rsync03:02
SpeedEvilit can be restarted03:02
ShadowJKcehteh, that kind of stuff is good at causing swapstorms :-)03:02
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cehteh--bwlimit next time ...03:02
DocScrutinizertorx is a machine thing03:03
DocScrutinizerpays off on MP03:03
cehtehholding the power button does .... nothing03:04
DocScrutinizercehteh: wait for it to swap03:05
cehtehhehe .. 10 minutes?03:05
DocScrutinizereventually all the events you triggered will kick in in fast sequence :-P03:05
DocScrutinizercehteh: I had to wait 30min once03:05
cehtehmedia player plays without a glitch btw03:05
DocScrutinizersome friggin youtube eaten up the mem03:06
cehtehno more patience .. ripping out the batt03:06
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DocScrutinizercehteh: kill the net :-D03:07
cehtehrsyncs between emmc and uSD03:07
DocScrutinizerduh, wait for another hour or two03:07
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ShadowJKI'd set /proc/sys/swappiness to 1 before heavy filetransfers03:07
cehtehalready took the bat out03:07
DocScrutinizergood luck fella03:08
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MohammadAGNokia pulled down the paid stuff on the ovi store - again03:08
cehtehwell i made a backup before just not the 7GB osm data03:08
cehtehbut these are in my squid03:08
DocScrutinizertell us if it reboots without flaws03:08
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* DocScrutinizer getting OM feelings :-P03:09
cehtehpass & pin .. correct desktop appears03:09
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cehtehok looks fine03:10
prontolmfao my phone has a load of 14.4203:10
DocScrutinizera mere nice would have done. Nah wait, that's messybox, no nice :-((03:10
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cehtehnice wont do03:11
prontoappetnly scp over wifi takes a lot of cpu03:11
cehtehwould need ionice03:12
cehtehthere is nice ..03:12
javispedrothat's nothing, my webserver has a load of 500!03:12
cehtehunice rsync .. on my laptop where unice is a script for 'ultra-nice' ... nice 19, ionice -c idle03:13
cehtehwith dbench you can generate any load you want (and still keep the device responsive)03:13
ShadowJKionice is kinda coupled to regular nice too these days03:14
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dracflamloc_good evening all03:14
dracflamloc_anyone around?03:15
dracflamloc_whats the best rogue like for n900? preferably not isometric-style. i like basic tiles or ascii03:15
DocScrutinizererr, what?03:16
cehtehis packaged somewhere03:17
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dracflamloc_DocScrutinizer, you dont know what a roguelike is?03:18
cehtehhe is too young for that :P03:18
dracflamloc_well he better learn03:18
dracflamloc_  <-- DocScrutinizer03:19
javispedrosince I enlarged my DTIM by five I get a lot of  out of order segment tcp/ip stack warnings in kernel log03:20
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cehtehthe n900 needs attachable cooling fins :P03:21
javispedrobut the battery life has increased a bit03:21
javispedroin layman's terms, "time between wakeups while in wi-fi power saving mode"03:22
DocScrutinizerme? too young? hard to imagine :-S03:22
cehtehmy vpn was bit unstable and drained the battery quite fast .. which i found out the keepalive/ping was to fast it tried unnnecessary reconnects03:23
javispedroit's not really that ( ) but higher interval between them means more latency + more battery life.03:23
cehtehwell my ap dont work well with the n900 .. i have it setup at moderate power saving for wlan, because full losses connection sometimes03:23
dracflamloc_cant seem to find anything but that isometric one03:23
dracflamloc_right that one03:24
cehtehthere is plain nethack somewhere ..03:24
dracflamloc_yea in trying to find03:24
cehtehmaybe in devel03:24
cehtehNokia-N900-42-11:~# apt-cache search nethack03:25
cehtehnethack-console - dungeon crawl game - text-based interface03:25
cehtehnethack-common - dungeon crawl game - common files03:25
dracflamloc_are you guys running windows or linux?03:26
cehtehonly linux here .. but in this channel are also windows people03:27
Lumpio-Windows people? Where!?03:27
cehteh(hah anyone here ever seen a mac user with a n900?)03:27
DocScrutinizer~kick dracflamloc_03:27
* infobot kicks dracflamloc_03:27
javispedrocehteh: there's one on this channel03:27
dracflamloc_yea i run all linux too03:27
DocScrutinizerredmond crap only when I whore for employment03:28
cehtehjavispedro: we should report that to Steve Jobs .. or Ballmer .. whatever :)03:28
dracflamloc_i made a kinda rogue-like. but atm its only compiled for windows03:28
DocScrutinizereven then...03:28
Lumpio-I have an old laptop with XP I thought I'd use for work (remote desktop)03:28
ptlonly linux here too03:28
Lumpio-Took like 7 hours to get that thing installed03:28
Lumpio-And then I found out that Linux rdesktop had been updated and was at least as good, if not better.03:29
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crashanddiecehteh: I'm touting the fact of opping myself and kicking you for thinking there aren't any mac users in here03:29
javispedroLumpio-: so Microsoft "fixed" that by requiring rdesktop clients to have working DirectX implementation to get full vista03:29
cehtehrsync runs fine now btw .. just wondering how long it will take :)03:29
Lumpio-Oh I don't want "full vista"03:29
Lumpio-I got all the visual stuff turned off03:29
cehtehcrashanddie: so sorry :P03:30
crashanddiecehteh: GeneralAntilles, timsamoff, timeless, me...03:30
* DocScrutinizer points to *_mbp03:30
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cehtehuname -a03:32
cehtehLinux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28maemo-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Wed Feb 17 16:13:31 CET 2010 armv7l unknow03:32
cehteh.. is that now the new kernel? ..03:32
DocScrutinizerWed Feb 1703:32
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* cehteh is a bit scared installing a kernel from a package03:33
cehtehyes looks new .. or? i didnt checked it before .. whats the stock kernel?03:33
ptlmine is from dec 1703:33
ptlhow did you get this one?03:34
cehtehthere is a package 'linux-kernel-flasher' which pretends to be an enhanced kernel03:34
cehtehinstalling it worked all too well .. so i am bit curious if it really installed a new kernel :P03:34
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ptlapt-cache search didn't find it, so I guess it's not on the repositories03:35
ptlhow 'enhanced' it is?03:35
cehtehit is .. but maybe devel03:35
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ptlI have maemo-devel and maemo-testing03:36
cehtehencryption, ext3, ipv6 and tons of goodies03:36
DocScrutinizerversion junkies03:36
ptlcouldn't find it...03:36
cehtehkernel-flasher-maemo - Linux kernel updater for an enhanced Maemo 5 kernel03:37
cehtehis the package03:37
ptlfound it03:37
ptldo you recommend it?03:37
cehtehDocScrutinizer: feature, not version03:37
cehtehptl: haha, dont ask me .. i just trying03:37
cehtehi once ask here and someone else used it without bricking his device03:38
ptlok... well... it's still 2.6.28, just compiled with a later date, maybe with some additional drivers and patches03:38
cehtehtook me a week to consider if i want to try it now :)03:38
cehtehprolly its the stock n900 kernel just reconfigured03:38
ptlyeah, I think I won't, unless I badly needed a feature enabled by it03:38
cehtehi want ext4, and possibly encryption03:38
ptlwhat for?03:39
ptlI mean, ext403:39
ptlencryption I can understand - even though there is truecrypt on the repositories and that should worm03:39
cehtehext4 because it gave a solid performance boost on my laptop and it works generally better on flash drives03:39
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DocScrutinizerworm - *smile*03:40
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cehtehi need a unix fs .. and if there is a choice from ext3 to ext4 then ext4 wins by a big margin03:40
SpeedEvilencryption, and some random printfs in various code I want to understand.03:41
SpeedEvilI want to try breaking out the flashlight LED from the camera03:42
SpeedEvilThat is - have it also exposed as an LED03:42
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: sounds like a plan03:42
Sandmanis there any port for 7zip on Maemo?03:42
SpeedEvilcehteh: the flashlight program currently has to open the camera to be able to control the flashlight.03:43
cehtehah yes03:43
SpeedEvilcehteh: this breaks stuff.03:43
SpeedEvilcehteh: but there isn't a good reason for this to be so.03:43
cehtehopen camera device?03:43
redeemancehteh: ofcourse ext4 have had, and probably still does, various severe issues03:43
cehtehthe leds can also be lighted on a 'indicator' level which is more dim than the torch03:44
cehtehi'd like to see how that uis03:44
cehtehredeeman: such as?03:44
cehtehi am using ext4 since quite some time and never had any issues03:44
redeemancehteh: there have been data corruption issues every release since ext4 was marked stable03:44
SpeedEvilcehteh: yeah - open the camera device03:44
redeemanwell just because you didn't doesn't mean others didn't03:45
cehtehwell .. it cant be worse than FAT :P03:45
redeemanin some ways it is03:45
redeemanvfat has been pretty damn stable MANY years back03:45
redeemanext4 cannot even begin to aproach that03:45
SpeedEvilcehteh: that is - not the physical shutter - the light is implemented as a control of the video4linux driver03:45
cehtehand some (most) issues i seen where rather a result from bad userspace programming03:45
DocScrutinizerindicator might be the redish one03:45
cehtehSpeedEvil: ok03:45
cehtehgot that03:46
cehtehDocScrutinizer: nope the flash leds have 3 levels   indicator, torch and flash03:46
cehtehthe red led is implemented elsewhere03:46
SpeedEvilflashlight is a bit brighter than required much of the time.03:46
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DocScrutinizerand flashlight is killer03:47
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cehtehthey drive the leds quite conservative so far i seen03:47
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: <0.5s03:47
arachnistredeeman: vfat && stable? what shit you've been smoking?03:47
cehtehnokia choosen less power than they are rates03:47
SpeedEvilerr - no03:47
cehtehDocScrutinizer: thats flash .. not torch03:48
SpeedEvilflashlight is a misleading american term meaning a continuous light03:48
redeemanarachnist: so what exactly have you experienced of vfat instabilities?03:48
SpeedEviltorch is used in the UK.03:48
arachnistredeeman: data loss, data corruption03:48
ptlSandman: that seems easy to do03:48
redeemani hardly think so, ofcourse you can lose data if you hard reset without syncing, which is true of any fs03:48
cehtehwell 'indicator' 'torch' and 'flash' are the terms in the datasheet of the driver chip and in the kernel driver03:48
redeemanas for data corruption, that's probably your disk or ram03:49
DocScrutinizerso s/flashlight/flash/03:49
ptlSandman: well, in fact, I just found it on the repositories. apt-get install p7zip03:49
cehtehyeah .. rsync finished03:49
cehteh.. a 2nd run just to be sure03:49
ptlSandman: or apt-get install p7zip-full03:49
redeemani don't recall seeing a dataloss/corroption fix going into the vfat driver since forever03:49
redeemanthat thing is pretty much as stable as can be03:49
cehtehor unfixable :P03:50
arachnistredeeman: ever tried writing to a vfat device at really fast rates?03:50
arachnistredeeman: like 300MB/s?03:50
redeemanarachnist: as a matter of fact, i have03:50
redeemanon loopback on a ramdisk03:50
cehtehloopbacks generally behave differently than real devices03:51
arachnistredeeman: well, i did it with zfs + zvol + iscsi + 10GbE network at work03:51
redeemancehteh: in that case, its not a filesystem issue03:51
cehtehthere are a lot barrier (or the lack of)03:51
redeemanwell i don't care about zfs, we're talking vfat03:51
cehtehwell filesystems make some assumptions about the underlying device03:52
arachnistredeeman: hello03:52
redeemanand the vfat driver is pretty damn stable03:52
arachnistredeeman: i exported zfs zvol over iscsi to a linux machine03:52
arachnistredeeman: over a 10GbE network03:52
redeemanso? we're talking about vfat here03:52
arachnistredeeman: you know what zvols and iscsi are?03:53
arachnistwell then, every other filesystem hasn't shown any issues with that setup03:53
arachnistexcept for ufs and vfat03:53
redeemanthat's with a very high degree of certainty not a problem in vfat03:54
arachnistofcourse. otherwise 100% reliable zfs and 100% reliable network is at fault here03:54
arachnistnot some shitty filesystem03:54
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redeemanor the iscsi subsystem ofcourse03:54
redeemanthe vfat driver is being used in literally countless devices03:55
redeemanits far more likely that another thing is at fault03:55
arachnistit is used in countless devices03:55
arachnistbut most of them don't exceed 0.5MB/s03:55
redeemanare you implying some race condition exists?03:56
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arachnisti'm not trying to guess what the cause is. i'm just saying what the result was03:57
redeemanits extremely unlikely the problem is in vfat itself03:57
arachnisttoo bad only vfat on linux and ufs on freebsd encountered problems03:58
redeemanthat still does not prove anything03:58
cehtehmke2fs -t ext4 -b 4096 -m 0 -E stride=32512 /dev/mmcblk0p1   ... ok? guess yes03:59
redeemanthe fact that you're seeing the same issue on two entirely different OSs and filesystems, ought to tell you something03:59
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cehteherr wrong03:59
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arachnistredeeman: the fact that i'm only seeing issues with filesystems that aren't considered reliable nowadays, should tell you something04:00
redeemanvfat IS considered reliable04:00
redeemanofcourse without a journal etc, its not considered reliable in the event of EXTERNAL failures04:00
cehtehso reliable within its limits :)04:01
redeemanits reliable in itself04:01
cehtehwell the problem is still lack of feature and performance04:01
redeemancertain failure in other parts of the system won't be protected against04:02
arachnistbesides, vfat has other issues, like lack of unix permisions, not to mention xattr, or the filesystem size or file size limits04:02
cehtehyes but a filesystem is rarely used just to show itself :P04:02
redeemancehteh: yes, but that wasnt what we are talking about04:02
arachnistredeeman: how worthy is a filesystem driver, that doesn't check anything it has written in a reliable way?04:03
redeemanthat is still not what we are talking about04:03
SpeedEvilmost filesystems don't check what they write04:03
cehtehredeeman: well i am interesting in using the filesystem, nothing less04:04
SpeedEvilnearly all I suspect, not most.04:04
arachnistSpeedEvil: some filesystems write checksums along the actual data, so that it can be verified when the file is read04:04
redeemanand if your block device is working, vfat shall be properly stable04:04
SpeedEvilarachnist: and out of those commonly used general purpose filesystems, none do that.04:05
SpeedEvilAt least at the filesystem level for block devices assumed to be reliable.04:05
arachnistSpeedEvil: depends on what environment we're talking about. zfs can (and, by default, does) write checksums04:05
arachnistSpeedEvil: murderfs4 also did, afair04:06
cehtehbut btrfs does04:06
arachnistmurderfs has had modules for checksumming04:06
cehtehyeah no one used it :P04:07
cehtehwhenever i tried to stresstest it, it murdered my test data04:07
arachnistyeah, that's a sad thing about it04:07
arachnistback when people were interested in it, it was still very unstable04:08
cehtehsometimes it had no chance for that because it deadlocked the kernel before it was able to destroy data04:08
SpeedEvilarachnist: nearly all installed filesystems do not checksum the data.04:08
* cehteh currently watches nilfs2 and btrfs 04:08
arachnistwell, i learned the hard way that no block devices by themselves are reliable04:09
cehtehnilfs is ultra reliable and has a nice design for some purposes (lots writes, backups)04:09
cehtehbut lacks features and performance yet04:09
arachnistzfs has nice features, is very reliable, efficent and fast. and has a freebsd prot04:10
cehteh[ 3354.593872] EXT4-fs: mmcblk1p1: Filesystem with huge files cannot be mounted read-write without CONFIG_LSF.04:10
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cehtehwaah .. damn .. that kernel isnt enough04:10
arachnistand i can boot directly from a 6 disk raidz2 (think: raid6) array04:10
cehtehwell turning off huge-file support should fix it04:11
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cehtehanyone noticed how much the emmc (and prolly uSD too) preformance degrades after some use ..04:15
cehtehmmc/sd controllers are really not up to date with the block management techniques04:16
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cehtehuhm .. great the fdisk binary from doesnt work with the current libblkid :P04:45
cehtehsfdisk seems to be very pita to change the fs-type04:45
SpeedEvilcfdisk is in some repo04:46
DocScrutinizertry cfdisk maybe04:46
cehtehuhm .. what repo chinook?04:46
cehtehcant find it04:47
SpeedEvildunno, sorry04:47
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SpeedEvilnight all04:48
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cehtehdeb  fremantle stable .... looks trustworthy :)04:49
DocScrutinizerumm, apt-get install cfdisk?04:50
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cehtehyeah i just need to figure out where that is .. actually i can dpkg -i then04:51
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cehtehwtf is the 'rodir' mount option for05:02
cehtehreadonly dirs .. makes no sense to me and my manpages05:03
luke-jrcehteh: sounds like it means you can modify files, but not change their directory entries05:03
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luke-jrwhich is a task only slightly more complex than read-only really05:03
luke-jrso might be able to do it w/o marking the FS dirty05:03
cehtehthe fatfs is mounted with those05:04
DocScrutinizerso probably you can't rewrite "inodes" (which aten't really existing on fat anyway)05:05
DocScrutinizeron a decent fs you can open a dir like any other file05:06
DocScrutinizerfor fatfs this sounds like a bad idea05:07
cehtehoh man sometimes i want to beat the crap out of nokia, this genfstab is fuba05:07
cehtehi thought i can add my changes nicely05:07
luke-jrjust sometimes?05:07
DocScrutinizergenfstab is one of the more insane ideas I ever heard of05:08
cehtehthe kernel can mount by uuid and device and all kinds of things05:08
cehtehthe whole partitioning thing looks someone had no clue and way to much weed05:09
* cehteh deletes the genfstab and writes a ordinary fstab on his device05:09
cehtehhorray for the big restore action after the next firmware update which will overwrite anything05:10
DocScrutinizerprolly the main reason that has stopped me so far from ruskie repartition right away05:11
cehtehwell with the frequency nokia releases new firmwares this is really not a problem :P05:12
DocScrutinizerthough I had a deep look into init.d/rcS yesterday, and wondered and wondered05:12
cehtehhehe yeah05:12
cehtehi tweaked it sightly ..05:13
cehteh# I hate this hack.  -- Md05:13
cehtehorly? :)05:13
DocScrutinizercan't see a real reason for _not_ having any of those /usr, /var and what else on /home. And mount home in rcS, then bindmount the whole dirs05:13
DocScrutinizeryeah, went wtf o.O on that05:14
cehtehthere are so much better ways to solve that05:14
cehtehi always point at eeepc .. which use a unionfs and have a readonly root .. almost unbrickable05:15
DocScrutinizerI actually forgot what that "hack" was all about. Freud?05:15
cehtehyou can boot them with factory defaults no matter how hard you beaten them05:15
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cehtehor just readonly root and bindmount when going up, its not *that* much space to waste on a 32GB Device if you have something of the essentials doubled05:16
DocScrutinizeraaah, make_extra_nodes... hmmm :-S05:16
cehteh    # We can safely continue booting now.05:17
cehteh    initctl emit MOUNTS_OK05:17
cehteh.. in rcS-late ... i am pretty sure about that...05:17
cehtehbecause i commented *everything* before that line out now :P05:17
DocScrutinizerlet's see what's in etc/udev/links.conf05:18
DocScrutinizerhrhrhrrrr hhaha05:18
cehtehi hope busybox mount knows -a05:19
cehtehDocScrutinizer: lmao :)05:20
DocScrutinizer# This file does not exist. Please do not ask the Debian maintainer about it.05:20
cehtehi hope there is nothing which deletes fstab at shutdown .. then i am screwed :P05:20
DocScrutinizer(messybox) I *really really* would test that prior to reboot05:20
cehtehyep that was my lmao05:20
cehtehi think i prolly wait 1-2 more firmware updates and then part away from nokia anyways05:21
cehtehmost of the hardware works, ok frontcam could be fixed05:21
cehtehand their software isnt worth the mess05:22
cehteh    modprobe panic_info_buff05:23
cehteh    sleep 105:23
cehteh    osso-product-info > /sys/kernel/debug/panic_info_buff05:23
cehtehway too much weed :P05:23
crashanddie"Hi, I'd like to rent... a... car... the olympic one..." "You mean Audi?" "Yeah, whatever"05:25
cehtehmount -a works05:25
DocScrutinizeroooh yeah, another WTF?!?!05:26
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DocScrutinizerseen what's osso-product-info actually? :-P05:26
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DocScrutinizerPI=`which osso-product-info`05:29
DocScrutinizerif [ x$OPI != x ]; then05:29
arachnistcrashanddie: lol05:29
cehtehok .. i found that it should umount halfway sane and doesnt delete the fstab05:30
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cehtehlets copy the stuff back and then hope and pray05:31
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DocScrutinizercehteh: check for messybox compatibility first !!05:32
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DocScrutinizerthere's pretty few commands in messybox really compatible to their toolbox counterparts05:32
cehtehi did05:33
cehtehi didnt do much05:33
cehtehjust mount -a05:33
cehtehand commenting other stuff out05:33
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DocScrutinizerI'd not be surprised messybox not knowing -a for mount05:33
cehtehwell and i can only loose MyDocs .. (not the data, the device/mountpoint)05:33
cehtehso thats really no big deal05:33
cehtehi tried that05:34
DocScrutinizerhell I'd not even be surprised crappybox not knowing the fstab based mount at all05:34
cehtehof course the autogenerated fstab has the wrong order too ...05:34
cehtehnah its not that worse05:34
cehtehthe worst what can happen is that i have to reflash .. the data is all on the uSD05:35
cehtehand on my laptop05:35
cehtehah forgotten to make a fstab entry for the /media mounts05:35
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DocScrutinizergiven that's hotswap I wonder if it needs an entry in fstab at all05:37
cehtehand i have to do a big 'chown' too ...05:37
cehtehi dont hotswap05:37
cehtehuhm well it gets unmounted when you remove the back cover ..05:37
cehtehwell lets dont care about that05:37
cehtehits just some script glue which can be fixed05:38
DocScrutinizerheh that sounds cool05:38
cehtehits hotswap ..05:38
cehtehthe camera shutter sensor is prolly 3-state ..05:38
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cehtehopen, closed, removed05:38
DocScrutinizernah, it's a hall or reed under the stand magnet05:39
cehtehnope its no reed05:39
cehtehits a IR reflex05:39
DocScrutinizerthe camslide yes05:39
DocScrutinizerthe backlid sense no05:39
cehtehwell maybe thats a reed then05:39
cehtehi dont look now while copying data :P05:40
cehtehi once was just surpised after removing and reapplying the cover, the cam reset to internal storage05:40
DocScrutinizerbug xxxxx: uSD unmounts when device placed on a magnet05:40
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cehtehi already suspected that the device has no compass may have some rather stupid coincidences with all this magnets on the device itself05:42
DocScrutinizeractually I wonder how those *with* compass manage to cope with magnets in vib motor and speakers05:42
cehtehi doubt that these are compensateable .. moreover the field change when you flip out the stand05:43
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cehtehyes these count as more magenets too05:43
cehtehwhile motor and speakers can be pretty well shielded05:43
cehtehbut reeds only work with unshielded magents05:43
* DocScrutinizer as well wonders why they haven't used a mech switch for that purpose05:44
dracflamloc_anyone interested in making a linux build of this?
DocScrutinizeresp the camslide is a weird idea to use an IR for that05:45
cehtehwear, dust .. and the reeds are smd's which can be put from reel on a normal production line05:45
DocScrutinizercehteh: ack05:45
cehtehbtw copying back data to ext4 feels much faster already05:45
DocScrutinizercehteh: at least reeds don't consume power all the time05:46
cehtehwell ir reflex power consumption is neglecitble05:46
cehteheven on this device05:46
arachnistdracflamloc_: general linux build, or a maemo build?05:46
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DocScrutinizera 1us pulse every 200ms is enough05:47
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cehteh200ms are quite long .. but even every 50ms will do and still only in the uA range05:47
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DocScrutinizerand you got a secret service-interface for free ;-P05:48
dracflamloc_arachnist, probably just general linux, maemo would rock too, but i don't know if google's V8 engine works on ARM yet05:49
Termana_n810dracflamloc_ - Googles V8 engine should work on both x86 and ARM05:50
dracflamloc_then yea05:50
dracflamloc_maemo and linux05:50
* DocScrutinizer prefers Mercedes V8 engine - the 5L one05:51
dracflamloc_it'd have to be slightly downscaled for n900, since at the current state its a ram hog, but the worlds are so enourmous a scaled back version would still be pretty cool05:51
cehteh   10     2 root     SW       0  0.0 19.8 [omap2_mcspi]05:52
cehteh.. whats that, the mmc driver?05:52
DocScrutinizermight be05:53
cehtehmhm dma/interrupt engine?...05:53
cehtehis active when playing music too .. but massively active with this copying action05:53
DocScrutinizerspi might be the wifi as well05:54
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cehtehcan be05:55
cehtehah yes ... i had a ssh session scrolling the copy action05:56
ShadowJKyep, wifi is on spi on n90005:56
cehtehin screen .. detached and load goes down05:56
* cehteh would like iostat on the n90005:56
ShadowJKit's probably in extras-devel05:57
cehtehsysstat ...05:57
ShadowJKsysstat yea05:57
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: where from is your knowledge about those details?05:58
DocScrutinizer(spi for wifi)05:58
cehtehanother 196kb eaten from rootfs05:58
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: lol05:58
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DocScrutinizererr dunno if that's a common acro - so: could have known05:59
cehtehiostat -m 30 .. so lets see06:00
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ShadowJK-k is probably more appropriate ;D06:01
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cehtehdamn that was no joke :P06:02
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* DocScrutinizer curstes that weird upstart-alike sysinit config, where you got no viable way to tell which scripts are run in which sequence06:04
cehtehhum .. copied bak the 8gb .. finsihed and only 2.2gb used .. that makes me think somehow06:06
cehtehwell there was nothing important .. but hm :)06:08
DocScrutinizerdu & diff?06:09
cehtehin what package is 'diff'06:10
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cehtehpatchutils i gues  :P06:11
cehtehsent 2396705 bytes  received 375272 bytes  20159.83 bytes/sec06:11
cehtehtotal size is 1878911831  speedup is 677.8206:11
cehtehok lets see06:11
cehtehdoes vfat waste massive space on small files?06:12
cehtehah thanks06:15
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cehtehNokia-N900-42-11:~# du -s /home/user/MyDocs/06:17
cehtehNokia-N900-42-11:~# du -s /media/mmc1/MyDocs/06:17
cehteh... and rsync tells its all in sync06:17
* dracflamloc_ curses his lack of experience with linux make system06:18
cehtehdiffmo -r running and found no differences06:18
cehtehNur in /home/user/MyDocs/: lost+found.06:18
cehtehah one difference :P06:18
cehtehhey if ext4 does a massive space save .. duh!06:18
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ShadowJKdoes --apparent-size work on n900's du?06:21
cehtehguess not06:21
cehtehUsage: du [-aHLdclsxhmk]06:22
cehtehwell looks really as if vfat wastes about 300% spcae or more for small (osm tiles) files06:23
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* cehteh has a shitload of tiles here06:24
DocScrutinizerhmm 1k sized files on 4k blocksize, that would explain it06:25
cehtehi have 4k blocksize on ext4 too .. but it can store small files effectively06:26
cehteh find /home/user/MyDocs/.maps/ | wc -l06:26
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DocScrutinizerfilesize of a random file?06:27
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cehtehsome hundred bytes to 2k06:27
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cehtehoh no the pngs are biggier06:28
DocScrutinizerthough even with 122k files, I don't see how that makes it waste GB of storage06:28
cehtehdiffmo is through .. no differences06:29
cehtehok i am happy to have ext4 now .. case settled06:29
cehtehlemme test the camera06:29
cehteh-- testing maemo mapper06:31
DocScrutinizerhope you'll come up with a script, or at least a 'history | pastebinit --'06:31
cehtehnah i'll patent it :P06:32
cehtehok .. what we learnd today .. "VFAT is *much* more worse than thought"06:33
DocScrutinizerI still don't buy *how bad* it sems to be06:34
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cehtehwell .. what can i tell .. you see the numbers06:34
cehteheverything still works06:34
cehtehnothing missing06:34
Termana_n810Right, like we needed to learn that FAT was bad06:34
cehtehi didnt rebooted yet ..06:34
cehtehdoing that now .. lets see what i've forgotten :P06:35
DocScrutinizeryou should do a df anyway06:35
cehtehi did06:35
cehteheven more extreme results06:35
cehteh/dev/mmcblk1p1           14.8G     11.0G      3.9G  74% /media/mmc106:35
cehteh/dev/mmcblk0p1           26.6G      2.2G     24.4G   8% /home/user/MyDocs06:35
DocScrutinizerI don't get it how FAT is wasting >2GB in 122k files06:36
luke-jrlarge block sizes?06:36
cehtehwhen i started there was 8.4 GB used in MyDocs and 8.5GB free in mmc106:36
DocScrutinizerseen it06:36
cehtehthe SD card prolly using different blocksizes (its a 16G card not 32G)06:37
cehtehexplains that it already saves a little more space06:37
DocScrutinizernah actually 20k bs would suffice06:37
cehtehwell dunno06:38
cehtehat worst i have deleted something huge accidentally .. or the hard-reset earlier eaten a lot of files06:38
* cehteh misses nothing06:39
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cehtehok .. i do the reboot .. lets see06:43
Termana_n810You miss nothing until you miss something06:45
cehtehcant be there was nothing important on the device06:45
cehtehand all this non important stuff is completely rsynced to my laptop06:46
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cehtehbut hum .. it doesnt boot :P06:47
cehtehhaving no console sux a bit06:48
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cehtehok time for flashing06:53
cehteh.. thats the first time i flash this device :P06:54
DocScrutinizercehteh: welcome to the joy of embedded lowlevel debugging06:58
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cehtehso .. made a tea .. lets continue07:08
cehtehmhm there is only on emmc image .. that never got updated?07:14
cehtehwell .. i try to keep the emmc, lets see07:14
DocScrutinizeryou don't want to reflash eMMC07:17
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cehtehwell since its the emmc which i reformatted to ext4 ...07:21
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cehtehbut first i just try to get it booting with the ext407:21
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jebba          :)07:25
cehtehwow a green bar whilec flashing07:27
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cehtehok i am back in business :P07:29
cehtehhah.. with emmc not mounted .. no home ext307:33
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: it doesnt moint the emmc .. /home .... guess something crapped out07:36
DocScrutinizerhmm, checked your fstab?07:37
DocScrutinizercan you mount by hand?07:37
cehtehah thanks .. there it is ..07:38
cehtehhaha .. permission denied .. are you root :P07:38
DocScrutinizerrootfs ro?07:39
cehtehnope .. fresh flashed07:39
cehtehi give it one reboot again07:39
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cehtehit doesnt ask me for the passcode anymore .. interesting07:41
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DocScrutinizercehteh: check the partiton table of eMMC07:47
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cehteh.. setted up wlan, installing rootsh ..07:47
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DocScrutinizerif a freshly flashed unmodified rootfs doesn't mount /home, I can't see what else might cause that other than parttab and home-fs corruption07:48
cehtehthe partition-table looks good07:49
DocScrutinizerfsck home?07:50
cehtehtries to mount mmcblk0p1 as home07:50
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cehtehohnoes ... only vi07:51
DocScrutinizerkonqueror -url sftp://root@n90007:52
cehtehi managed to edit the fstab with vi07:52
cehtehmounted now07:53
cehtehssh now07:54
* DocScrutinizer imagines some dozen old sysadms and hackers headbanging the desk on reading "managed to edit with vi" :-P07:54
cehtehhey .. i am one of the people who write 'ed' scripts :)07:54
cehtehthere is ed and there is emacs .. and the space between is filled with nano ... no space left for vi07:55
DocScrutinizerI confess I avoid vi wherever there's an alternative07:55
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cehtehmhm .. so now lets go on only get the ext4 running07:57
* DocScrutinizer wonders what your access to the device looks like when /home not mounted07:58
DocScrutinizerwell, probably not much of a diff, at least for non-optified apps07:58
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cehteh# Segmentation fault08:00
cehtehme using vi08:00
jaskaan "achievement"08:00
Termana_n810cehteh - are you trying to make the rootfs partition on your n900, ext4?08:01
cehtehlooks like initial start .. including ovi and first steps on the deaktop .. nothing unusual08:01
cehtehTermana_n810: nope only MyDocs08:01
Termana_n810ah, normally that shouldn't be too difficult. But, err, this is Maemo we're talking about. Home of the non-mainstream hacks :P No offense08:03
Termana_n810(no offense to the developers that is :P)08:04
cehtehhey .. i want to punch them08:04
cehtehthere are so many ugly hack for no reason08:05
DocScrutinizerI want to know if dmesg is telling you why it refuses to mount /home08:05
cehtehprolly the the only reasons are "We want to make it differently"08:05
cehtehDocScrutinizer: the (autogenerated) fstab pointed to the MyDocs partition08:06
cehtehfixed that manually and mounted it now08:06
DocScrutinizerof course, and -t vfat08:06
cehtehnah /home is ext3 ...  there was a message that it cant mount the storage (which is ext4)08:07
cehtehthis kernel cant handle ext4 .. i'm installing a new kernel next08:07
Termana_n810didn't ext4 support only start coming in around .30? IIRC, the n900 kernel is .2808:09
DocScrutinizeraah, yes. of course08:09
cehtehnope its in .2808:09
cehtehbut not enabled in the nokia kernel08:09
Termana_n810sorry, let me rephrase - *stable* *working* ext408:12
cehtehno real ext4 not dev08:12
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Termana_n810besides, if its not enabled in the kernel or your not loading it as a module - you will need to either enable it or build it as a module08:13
Termana_n810before it will work08:13
cehtehthere is a kernel in extras-devel which comes with ext408:13
cehtehext4 is not the problem .. i had some bug preventing it booting08:14
Termana_n810but you just said above "this kernel cannot handle ext4"08:16
cehtehthe stock kernel installed when flashing the device08:17
Termana_n810ah i see, nevermind me :P08:17
cehtehok .. rebooting08:18
* cehteh rather wonders how he managed to brick the device in a way that it didnt asked for the passcode at boot08:19
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lucentcehteh: did you use real bricks?08:19 all I can think of.08:20
cehtehdamn .. again doesnt boot :P08:20
* cehteh notes that a hand-edited fstab seems not to work08:21
DocScrutinizerwhat passcode?08:21
DocScrutinizercehteh: maybe it's the kernel that doesn't work08:21
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cehtehi booted the kernel before doing the fstab08:22
cehtehand i mounted the ext4 manually08:22
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DocScrutinizermount -a08:22
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cehtehwell next i just hardcode the mount08:22
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DocScrutinizerstill it's strange the boot completely fails on a failing mount08:25
cehtehit starts with the moving dots but sticks with a completely black screen08:26
cehtehso the kernel starts up ... but userland gets stuck08:26
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cehtehand without console or so i have no way to find out what happens08:27
DocScrutinizeryeah. As I said - the joy of messing with booting embedded devices08:27
cehtehwell .. this is an artifical embedded device grr08:28
jebbacheck if userland tools only have ext4dev08:28
cehtehjebba: ext4 was not the problem08:28
Termana_n810cehteh - why not compile a kernel with fbcon. I've been making some .33 kernels for the n810 and when userland decides to be an arse, fbcon prints out the userland errors08:31
Termana_n810fbcon = framebuffer console (just in case you didn't know)08:32
Termana_n810that way you should be able to find out where userland is freezing.08:33
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cehtehTermana_n810: actually i didnt want to put too much efforts into it ..08:37
cehtehand merging nokias stuff and maintaining all their stuff sounds not like easy going08:38
Termana_n810well... :P there isn't really any other way unless you have a debug board08:38
Termana_n810to view the serial console08:39
cehtehi just make it boot on the new kernel without the ext4 now08:39
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* raster bah's at maemo08:46
Termana_n810done what?08:46
povbotBug 9320: opengl-es2 rendering bugs08:46
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rasteri was a good boy08:46
rasteri filed a bug08:46
DocScrutinizerraster: hooray :-)08:47
Termana_n810too bad it'll probably be marked Fixed in MeeGo08:47
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rasterTermana_n810: that'd be stupid08:48
rasteras its actual gl-es driver bugs08:48
rasterthey will be in meego too08:48
rasterfix them now08:48
rasterperformance is also bunk08:49
rastertotal crud08:49
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DocScrutinizerI guess there'll be quite some echo tomorrow. Or even in a few hours when everybody's out of the nest here in EU08:59
Termana_n810about what?08:59
Termana_n810raster's bug report?09:00
DocScrutinizerabout 932009:00
Termana_n810yeah, but when isn't there dust being kicked up in here :P09:01
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DocScrutinizeralas no whining and bitching will make the gles src come open09:01
cehteh\o/ --- manual mounting works09:05
cehtehstill handwritten fstab ..09:05
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DocScrutinizerwhat changed?09:06
cehtehmount -a (i tried it manually, that worked, serveral times)09:06
cehtehprolly overseen some fairie dust in the scripts09:07
jebbahow are you editing the fstab again after a failed boot?09:07
cehtehwell and the fstab regeneration is commented out now09:08
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cehtehok .. putting uSD back in ans replay backup ...09:09
cehtehand the massive space saving of ext4 seems to be true09:10
DocScrutinizerstill don't get that09:10
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cehtehme neither09:11
DocScrutinizeris ext4 compressing?09:11
DocScrutinizersparse files?09:11
cehtehall it can do is storing small files in-place .. direct in the inode, yes sparse files of course, its a unix filesystem09:12
cehtehi thing all things come together09:12
cehtehand sum up09:12
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cehtehcould also been that there where some deleted files which wherent closed .. my maemo mapper or so09:13
cehtehwell .. FAT was invented for 640Kb 5"1/4 Diskettes :P09:14
cehtehhum .. eeeks09:15
cehtehi now put sd card back in and it asks me for 'initial' setup09:15
cehtehselect region, clock and stuff09:15
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cehtehbut all correctly mounted09:16
* cehteh just restores the backup09:16
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Termana_n810heh Maemo just had a spazem at meand made all the panels blank and what not. probably the daemons i've disabled.09:31
Termana_n810me and made*09:31
Termana_n810crashed Tear as well :P09:32
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LynoureDocScrutinizer: hmm?09:55
DocScrutinizer<Midday> 0_o09:56
Lynoureoh, crossmanga eyeplay09:56
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Termana_n810Fun for the whole family, its crossmanga eyeplay - available in shopsnear you!10:11
Termana_n810shops near*10:11
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andrei1089hi, I made the mistake of rating my own package in and now I can't post any comments on that page to answer user's questions. What can I do?10:18
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voidprayerExcept N900, is there any other type using Maemo 5?11:00
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voidprayerjebba: and it will soon be replaced by Maemo 6, leaving no any GTK+ based mobile system.11:04
voidprayerjebba: How soon?11:05
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jebbavoidprayer: uh, it will have gtk+ available too11:06
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Termana_n810voidprayer, GTK+ will still be available for Maemo 6 / MeeGo11:06
voidprayerjebba: available means most of application will move to Qt but you can use GTK+? or a GTK+ version of Maemo is availabe?11:07
Stskeepsvoidprayer: gtk is such a pain to work with so i am not surprised..11:07
jebbavoidprayer: you can still run gtk apps11:07
Stskeepsbut gtk is there, we are not sure of gtk maemo11:07
jebbamoblin uses clutter11:07
voidprayerStskeeps: well, it might be. but too many programmes in GTK+ and now it is a little hard to avoid. I hate GTK's huge button.11:07
Stskeepsfor netbook ui11:07
Stskeepsvoidprayer: agreed, but power of maemo is support for multiple toolkits11:08
jebbanot sure what meego will use for dialer and such.11:08
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voidprayerIs GPE available in any commercial cellphone?11:09
Stskeepsnot sure if freerunner counts11:09
jebbavoidprayer: you can install GPE on n90011:09
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jebbait's in the repo11:10
voidprayerjebba: I see. Thank you.11:10
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fralsFailed to fetch                                        Size mismatch11:13
fralsdoh :<11:13
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pupnikas long as qt doesnt chew too much battery...11:13
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Shapeshifterjebba: dialer? I thought it will use ofono11:24
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Shapeshiftermh, meego still doesn't have a forum11:25
Stskeepsstill in discussions11:26
Stskeepsas it needs to be approved by TSG first11:26
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slonopotamusanyone successfully installed esbox on top of existing eclipse installation?11:28
slonopotamusit can't read stuff from update site, says white space is required between public id and system iid11:29
* RST38h throws up at the mention of eclipse11:29
RST38hUltimate N900 accessory:
rastereclipse is AWWEEEEEEESOME11:30
rasterit finally gives a reason for the 4gb of ram in my box11:30
StskeepsRST38h: excellent11:30
rasterand it makes good user of the 2 cores...11:30
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rasterfor editing text :)11:31
* Shapeshifter found some hilarious eclipse code yesterday11:31
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slonopotamusoh, and downloaded esbox just silently exits without showing anything11:31
Shapeshifterit's raining case statements11:31
RST38hraster: Yes, it is good for Intel business, as poor idiots are fruitlessly trying to buy enough hardware to make eclipse run at usable speed11:32
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rasterRST38h: as i said.. its totally awesome11:32
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RST38hslonopotamus: the whole thing has been a fail from the beginning, avoid it11:33
slonopotamusRST38h, maemo? i know.11:33
slonopotamusbut i need to run esbox somehow :/11:34
RST38hno, the eclipse thing11:34
rasterShapeshifter:  consume!!!!!!11:34
pupnikno keynsian paroles please11:34
rasterconsumePseudoTokens is awesome11:35
slonopotamusRST38h, maemo didn't have to base esbox on eclpse11:35
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RST38hslono: "maemo" is a software platform, it does not make engineering decisions, or any decisions at all11:36
RST38hthese are made by people11:37
slonopotamusRST38h, you understood what i meant.11:37
rasterRST38h:  i write code to make decisions for me11:37
rasterit normally involves rand()11:37
Termana_n810Theres a lot of padantic people on Freenode tonight11:37
RST38hslono: Yes, and somewhere inside Maemo Devices there is a guy who has made a wrong decision11:37
rasterhis name is rand()y11:39
slonopotamusraster, :D11:39
asj_Termana_n810: dude, it's irc11:40
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pupnikhey raster hows tricks11:40
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Termana_n810asj_ - thanks captain obvious :P I ment more than usual11:41
pupnikdoing anything fun?11:41
asj_Termana_n810: don't get pedantic on me11:41
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pupnik4:45 < dracflamloc_> anyone interested in making a linux build of this?
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LiraNunaFirefox mobile for N900?11:51
pupniktry it with a sentence LiraNuna11:51
LiraNunawell, I just read about Firefox mobile releasing for N900;11:52
LiraNunaanyone got thoughts/pics about it?11:52
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RST38hLiraNuna <-- kinda slow11:55
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RST38hnot unlike Firefox mobile ...11:55
LiraNuna<RST38h> not unlike Firefox mobile ...11:56
LiraNunais that double negative?11:56
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crashanddieLiraNuna: well, it has "not", and has a word that negates its meaning by prepending "un"11:58
crashanddieLiraNuna: what do you think?11:58
LiraNunaI'm thinking there's a language barrier here11:58
RST38hyeah right11:59
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wazd_e63Moaning all12:09
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aquatixgood moaning12:19
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wazd_e63Aquatix: heya12:28
aquatixhey wazd_e63 :)12:29
* timeless_mbp chuckles @ MacPacInstall12:32
* timeless_mbp chuckles @
povbotBug 538516: was not found.12:33
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embeddedHi all12:35
aquatixtimeless_mbp: wow12:35
aquatixtimeless_mbp: and here my gf is still waiting for her device to arrive :)12:35
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timeless_mbpwell, i think qa is waiting for approval to send the check12:38
timeless_mbpone would hope they'd get a slight discount for that volume...12:38
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Stskeepsthey do budgets in bugzilla?12:40
timeless_mbpapprovals yes12:40
timeless_mbpgenerally individual desktop purchases are company confidential, but tracked in bugzilla12:40
timeless_mbpi presume that budgets aren't in bugzilla12:40
timeless_mbp(there are real bugs like "i need a new desktop" or "i need a new laptop")12:41
Termana_n810One would think "needing more devices" isn't exactly a bug12:41
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timeless_mbpTermana_n810: the lack of those devices blocks other bugs12:43
timeless_mbpand as such, it needs to be represented in the bug framework12:44
Termana_n810timeless_mbp, heh - whatever makes everyone happy12:45
timeless_mbpit also enables transparency12:45
timeless_mbpit's much nicer than how most corporations work :)12:45
aquatixat least it enhances the openness12:47
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embeddedIs there some Maemo expert here?12:51
timeless_mbpnah, we killed them all12:53
Termana_n810embedded, your talking in the Maemo channel, theres a lot of them here -.-12:53
embeddedeheh, but no one answer :)12:54
Termana_n810embedded - because you haven't asked anything12:54
embeddedwho knows how to create a .desktop shortcut file to run an app from the osso-xterm as root?12:56
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timeless_mbpwell, you can't quite do that12:57
timeless_mbpyou can add a file to /etc/sudoers.d/ for your thing12:57
timeless_mbpand in postinstall you can run update-sudoers12:57
timeless_mbpyou can then have a .desktop shortcut which asks xterm to use sudo to call your special thing12:58
embeddedhow to do this last thing?12:58
timeless_mbposso xterm can't be asked to run other things13:00
* timeless_mbp sighs13:01
timeless_mbpi suspect there are better answers for it in the #maemo logs13:01
embeddedso no chances to do that?13:02
asj_embedded: what do you want to run?13:02
embeddedan app I ported which makes use of ncurses13:03
timeless_mbpembedded: it's definitely possible13:03
timeless_mbpthe documentation is just scarce :)13:03
timeless_mbpit's a sunday, i'd suggest you search through the irc logs and ask again in +8, +16, +24 hrs13:04
asj_why are people who ask for help so secrative?13:04
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timeless_mbpgood question13:04
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asj_Linux egon 2.6.31-19-generic #56-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 01:26:53 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux13:06
asj_lol, oops13:06
asj_bad cut&paste13:06
embeddedin practice I found somewhere on the net to run : "echo /<path_to_your_app> | sudo gainroot"13:06
timeless_mbpthat shouldn't work anymore13:07
timeless_mbppeople decided that it'd be dangerous13:07
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timeless_mbpusing sudoers.d as i instructed is the correct way (™)13:07
embedded(™) ehehe :D13:08
timeless_mbpmy irc client is too clever for me13:08
embeddedtimeless_mbp: I'll try your way and I'll be back to you with results, I hope good :)13:09
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timeless_mbpsudoers definitely works, i use it13:09
timeless_mbpthe xterm side of things is definitely doable, other people do it13:09
* timeless_mbp just isn't amongst them13:09
embeddedthe bluemaemo package seems to contain a good example to do that13:12
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SpeedEvil -+13:13
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sejois there a switch for openssh? it drains my battery (even when in offline mode)13:28
sejoyes each night I set it to offline mode and since I installed Dropbear ssh server after 7 hours sleed the battery is dead13:30
RST38hAh, Dropbear...13:30
RST38hUninstall Dropbear. Install OpenSSH.13:30
jebbago for regular openssh13:30
sejois the openssh better?13:30
RST38hit does not drain batteries at least13:31
jebbait doesnt drain battery at least not as far as i've seen13:31
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SpeedEvilme too13:33
SpeedEvilidle unless used13:33
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sejoalso is there a website where I can see the themes for the n900 don't like to install them one by one13:36
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Chikudoes gmail support push email ?13:41
Chikuand is it possible to setup on maemo?13:41
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djkrikkeI've been charging my n900 this night (while powered off). There was a green notification light (I suppose meaning charged). But when I booted the device, I only got 86% battery14:03
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djkrikkeIs this normal behavior?14:04
Milo-aw bloody heck14:05
Milo-I kind of unpromoted myself from my own garage project :14:06
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djkrikkenice one Milo-14:06
Milo-who should I ask to promote me back as admin? :P14:06
Milo-I am the only member in that project :D14:06
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SpeedEvildjkrikke: the battery meter is somewhat broken14:10
djkrikkeSpeedEvil, you mean, the percentage monitor?14:11
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Shapeshifterdjkrikke: the place where all battery meters get their info from (hal and stuff)14:13
djkrikkeShapeshifter: I see14:13
djkrikkeso what you say is that my battery actually is charged14:14
djkrikkebut the device just doesn't know it ^^14:14
SpeedEvilIt does - it's just the reporting to userspace of this sucks14:14
KuskI have this problem with a full rootfs. I have seen that alot have an /opt about the size of 2GB. But I dont have any? Anyone know why?14:14
djkrikkeSpeedEvil, but doesn't the device use this stats to know when It has to warn for low battery level? So in my case it will tell me low battery while it even isn't less then 20%?14:15
rasterwhy maemo just doesnt use your normal every day /sys/class/power_supply api to report stuff...  beats me14:15
SpeedEvilKusk: sync - the fs doesn't automatically reclaim space. If you've installed lots of apps early on - you might uninstall them and reinstall14:16
rasterSpeedEvil:  hey hey :)14:16
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KuskSpeedEvil: But isnt there a seperate partition mounted as /opt?14:16
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SpeedEvilopt is in /home14:17
SpeedEvills -ld /opt14:18
SpeedEvildoes df14:18
SpeedEvilshow several lines with 'opt' in them?14:18
SpeedEvilOr du /upt14:19
SpeedEvilhere that shows 390M14:19
KuskNope, that is the mydocs(27gb) and rootfs(227mb) and the small tmp/dev/run/shm14:20
pupniknice, web and irc and podcasts is going to drain the battery in 6 hours14:21
SpeedEvilhave you been messing with partitioning?14:21
* RST38h wonders what "Search" feature in Torrent clients is for. It no longer searches anything.14:21
KuskWell python is mounted at opt/mymaemo, but that is in rootfs since it has the same size as root(227mb)14:21
KuskSpeedEvil: Nope14:21
djkrikkepupnik, how do you know? :)14:21
pupnikbatt down at 20 pct14:22
pupnik10:30 to 13:2214:22
djkrikkethat's pretty fast14:23
djkrikkehow did you manage to do that?14:23
pupnikrunning podcasts, irc, occasional web browsing14:24
djkrikkeI see. Damn, 6 hours really sucks14:24
rasterKusk:  no. /opt is a symlink to /home/opt14:24
rasterand /home is a 2g partition14:24
KuskWell I dont have an home partition14:25
rasterNokia-N900-42-11:~# ls -l /14:25
rasterlrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            9 Oct 30 22:36 opt -> /home/opt14:25
rasterNokia-N900-42-11:~# df -h14:25
raster/dev/mmcblk0p2            2.0G    377.2M      1.5G  20% /home14:25
pupnik6 would be a miracle.  ill let it run out djkrikke14:25
rasterthats standard maemo setup for n90014:25
djkrikkeHow is it possible that it drains so fast, pupnik?14:25
rasterdjkrikke:  cpu is always on14:26
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rasterif u have irc on...14:26
djkrikkeTrue, but playing music and being on irc doesn't drain other phones that fast14:26
rastererr in my experience it does14:26
pupnikwell mp3 playback takes about 2x the battery it needs.  i will try to release a player soon that halves that14:27
rasteru'll get about 8 - maybee 10hrs out of a g1 playing music with screen off14:27
pupnikoh of course screen takes a lot14:27
pupnikbut the 1200 mah batt is also too small by half14:28
rasterit is relatively small given the screen size14:28
rasterand cpu14:28
raster(and wifi.. and 3g and...)14:29
rasternbut its not tiiiny14:29
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rasterits not generous - thats for sure14:29
rastergiven the actual physical size of the n900 tho - the battery is weenie14:29
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pupniklets just say it is better than government shite14:30
djkrikkeraster, indeed. Like those dell pc's have slices, I hoped someone invented a slice or something :)14:31
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Kuskraster: This is the output from df -h
KuskCould it be that there is a home partition somewhere, that havn't been mounted?14:34
rasterthis thing here as a 1500mah battery - and it sscreen wil eat much less power than the n900 - and its markedly thinner - pushing on almost half the tickness14:34
rasterthe n900 just is a very bulky device with a weenie battery :)14:34
rasterKusk:  have u plugged into usb - mass storage mode?14:35
Kuskraster: Nope, not at the time I took the screenshot14:35
rasterno idesa where your /home went14:35
rasterbut there should be a /home partition14:35
rasterwhat does fstab say?14:36
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KuskWell in the fstab there is an /home partition14:37
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rastertry mount it14:37
rastermount /homre14:37
rastermount /home14:37
rastermines mounted and swinging its nuts around as it should14:37
KuskMount: mounting /dev /mmcblk0p2 on /home failed: Invalied argument14:38
rasterwhats fstab say?14:39
raster/dev/mmcblk0p2 /home ext3 rw,noatime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback 0 014:39
rasterthats the default14:39
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KuskIts the same here14:39
KuskCould it be a faulty partition?14:40
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rastersmells wrong14:48
rasterthere has to be more than "invalid argument"14:48
rasterkernel bitching...14:48
djkrikkeraster, perhaps you know, does maemo also use the hal battery info for giving low battery warning?14:48
rasterdjkrikke:  dunno. i DO know there is on standard kernel interface for battery tho14:49
rasterthey did some weird shit of their own14:49
djkrikkeraster, because when the monitorring goes wrong, the battery may not be empty while maemo says I have to charge14:49
VanadisIs anybody converting movies with Super 2010 to their N900?14:50
Vanadisif yes, what are your settings?14:50
rastersams as n810, n800, n7700 - no desire to follow standards there :(14:50
TomaszDVanadis, use Handbrake14:52
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RST38hmoo wazd14:53
TomaszDVanadis, get the Handbrake profiles from here and you're set14:53
VanadisTomaszD, thx14:53
pupnikTY TomaszD14:54
pupnikgpodder is one of the greatest apps for maemo14:55
TomaszDindeed it its14:55
TomaszD*it is14:55
TomaszDI can even excuse its long start-up time14:56
TomaszDthp for president, I've always said14:56
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zaheermyes gpodder is awesome14:56
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pupnikany favorite feeds?14:57
TomaszDmany from the TWiT network, like FLOSS Weekly and Security Now!14:57
TomaszDI also sometimes listen to those assholes from engadget as they make sense from time to time14:58
RST38hWe have finally got to the point where command line is easier to learn than IDE tools. Perfect.14:58
TomaszDpupnik, yours?14:58
KuskAs far as I can see, dmesg doesn't mention the partition at all
pupnikdeutsche bank reaearch,, peter schiff14:59
TomaszDquite specialized stuff I see15:00
TomaszDnot that mine isn't, in a way15:00
pupnikthe economy is relevant to my interests15:01
Arif_this is weird15:01
RST38hpupnik: can you do something about economy? =)15:01
Arif_I woke up and my battery is 1/4th full15:01
Arif_I unplugged it before I went to sleep15:02
Arif_I think I have a battery problem!15:02
TomaszDor you slept for 2 days15:02
Arif_it wasn't connected to anything either15:03
TomaszDso you slept for 5 days15:03
TomaszDthere are those new fancy battery meters available15:03
TomaszDmaybe you should check them out15:03
Arif_I should15:04
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Arif_Nokia should make better batteries!15:04
TomaszDI don't think they ever made any themselves15:04
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Arif_they should buy better batteries then15:05
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TomaszDthere is only so much you can do with the available physics15:05
TomaszDthey could be a bit smaller and lighter if they were LiPo15:06
TomaszDbut not much else they can do15:06
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Arif_inventing something better can't be that hard!15:06
djkrikkejust use slices15:07
djkrikkelike on laptops15:07
djkrikkeso you can attach a battery that fits perfectly15:07
djkrikkewithout ever having to open the back cover15:07
TomaszDit can be, you're already carrying a potential bomb in your phone if it wasn't for the electronic charging circuits15:07
RST38hNuclear batteries15:08
RST38hNice, warm, radiant nuclear batteries15:08
RST38hImagine puncturing one of those15:08
TomaszDnothing much would happen15:08
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RST38hNot even a bunny attack?15:09
RST38hbunny people, I mean15:09
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TomaszDnot sure15:09
RST38h"If you saw a digital image of yourself running on a virtual treadmill, would you feel like going to the gym? Probably so, according to a Stanford study showing that personalized avatars can motivate people to exercise and eat right. "15:10
redeemanhaha yeah right15:10
redeemanno personalized avatars can make me stop sitting like a fat guy in my chair, and eating bacon15:10
* RST38h goes over possible further experiments. Windows. Toilet bowls. Powered wires.15:11
TomaszDactually, I saw a really cool presentation about something like this, let me try digging it out15:11
fralsanyone here use fMMS? does anyone find it confusing that the "New MMS"-button got the small envelope icon next to the text? ie thinking its for sending SMS in "Conversations" and not MMS?15:12
RST38hWhy would anyone need to send MMS nowadays?15:13
TomaszDcan't find it15:13
* RST38h hides again15:13
frals for reference15:13
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djkrikkeHmm, somebody knows how to get powertop? Can't find it in the repo's (extras, extras-testing) and isn't on the device either15:14
TomaszDfrals, I don't think it's that confusing15:14
RST38hfrals: looks ok to me but if you feel like changing it, an envelope with a photo sticking out would probably do15:14
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TomaszDRST38h speaks the truth15:14
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fralsno i think its perfectly clear, got a user complaining because he have closed the application because he thought he was in conversations... :P15:16
villagerdjkrikke: it's on my device, in /sbin, as you need root... what firmware do you have? perhaps you have to get someone with it to send it to you15:16
djkrikkelet me check, hold on15:16
fralsbut could probably change the icon, cheers :)15:16
djkrikkels /sbin | grep powertop returns nothing15:17
RST38hfrals: screw him.15:17
djkrikkeso probably not included in my firmware15:17
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KuskCould anybody upload an txt file with the output of sfdisk -l on their N900?15:17
fralsRST38h: :) sticking to what i heard somewhere... "unless 80% of the users complain, its fine" ;D15:18
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Arif_people use MMS?15:18
villagerdjkrikke: not sure where I got it from, pretty sure it was on the device... wonder if it might be included in fremantle sdk tools, perhaps15:18
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djkrikkelooks like some people on the maemo forum uploaded the binary15:19
villagerdjkrikke: anyway you might have to find someone who has copied it off-device15:19
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djkrikkessh server on the device is just so wicked :)15:20
fralsany way to get download statistics from -devel or do you have to add a product on to get # of downloads?15:23
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djkrikkeis it actually possible to underclock the n900 cpu?15:27
SpeedEvilit's undercocked anyway15:27
SpeedEvilit goes to 250MHz15:28
SpeedEviland also turns off15:28
djkrikkehmm, but wouldn't it be good to clock it at 250mhz max to get more battery life?15:28
lcukdjkrikke, false economy sometimes because if you have the cpu slower you may have to keep other components active for longer15:29
lcukbut, yes you can try it15:29
djkrikkeyes indeed, it is more complex than it seems15:29
lcuki cant remember the specifics off hand (had no coffee yet)15:30
RST38hdjkrikke: maybe it makes more sense to run powertop and analyze what programs in your n900 prevent cpu from getting into power-saving states?15:30
lcukmoo RST38h15:30
* RST38h moos at lcuk evilly15:30
villagerdjkrikke: most of the time, capping it at 250MHz will reduce battery life15:30
djkrikkeRST38h, I ran powertop, but "tick_nohz_restart_sched_tick" isnt a program I guess15:31
RST38hlcuk: ok, I ordered bh-905. The only two complaints I have found are the loose fit and the price15:31
RST38hlcuk: With the second complaint mostly addressed by Amazon ($199)15:31
lcukhey, i encountered another batch of stuff in that wikidot site last night15:31
RST38hdjkrikke: I kinda doubt you interpreted powertop output correctly :)15:32
RST38hlcuk: The SCP site? :)15:32
lcuksame domain, different arg15:32
villagerdjkrikke: the power difference between 250 and 600 is often less than the power savings you get by making stuff finish faster and then go to idle, turning the cpu off15:32
djkrikkevillager, makes sense indeed15:32
RST38hlcuk: Wikidot provides hosting for several wikis15:33
RST38hlcuk: Have you seen the mad chemist blog I have found?15:33
lcukthis was slender-man related stuff15:33
RST38hlcuk: enjoy15:34
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RST38hlcuk: Pretty much like SCP, just real15:34
lcukcant read yet, E:NOCOFFEE15:34
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RST38h"The straight liquid must really be a treat, but I've never seen it in that form, and would only wish to through binoculars."15:38
pupnikhilsrious RST38h15:40
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lcukhi PBeck15:41
pupnikanyone who has blown up a lab bench, raise hand15:41
pupniko/  ;)15:41
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lcuka whole bench?15:41
pupnikwell no just some glassware15:42
fnordianslip set fire to every sink in the lab at the same time :)15:42
lcukfnordianslip, thats quite classy15:42
lcukhow did you manage that15:42
fnordianslipi was impressed.  it was with toluene15:42
fnordianslipburning toluene, actually15:43
pupnikdumped it in sink?15:43
fnordianslipi was just trying to get rid of it15:43
fnordianslipsome of the sinks were near curtains :(15:44
KuskAnyone here willing to help me with finding the default start and end cylinder number for the mmcblk0p2 partition?15:45
KuskAnd the default block number?15:45
PBeckhow can i change hildon.touchselector to scroll horizontal and vertical? I script in python15:45
villagerKusk: why don't you just sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk015:47
Kuskvillager: Because I found :-)15:48
villagerKusk: oh, you've already wiped the partition?15:49
villagerKusk: ok, well it looks like the numbers are listed there15:50
TomaszDwoo, new gpodder available15:51
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villagerKusk: well, my p2 starts and ends one cylinder earlier than that page says, but anyway15:52
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Kuskvillager: Yeah, but it seems that I'm royally screwed. When I try to create an new partition with mkfs.ext3 on /dev/mmcblk0p2 it says: Unknown code ____ 255 while trying to create journal15:54
villagerKusk: you've rebooted I guess?15:55
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KuskYes, I deleted the partition in fdisk, rebooted, created it again with fdisk, rebooted, and then ran mkfs.ext3 on mmcblk0p215:56
satmddoes it work with ext2?15:57
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villagerwell, I haven't repartitioned my phone, only PCs (where I've never seen that)... so not sure if I can help15:57
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satmdbecause maybe you can make a ext2 then tune2fs15:57
SpeedEvildoes mext2 work?15:58
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KuskHmm, it created the ext2 partition without any problems16:00
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KuskSo what should I do with tune2fs?16:01
SpeedEvilwell - you can't tune a fish.16:01
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SpeedEvilSee man tune2fs16:01
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KuskOr can I just leave the partition, change fstab to mount it as ext2 instead of the original ext3?16:01
villagerKusk: tune2fs -j /dev/filesystem, as I recall16:01
villagerwhere filesystem is the mmcblk of course16:02
KuskHmm, well that gave the same "Unknown code ____ 255" error16:02
villagerthe -j option effectively converts from ext2 to ext316:02
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villagerKusk: the partition isn't in use or anything?16:06
KuskI dont think so.16:06
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KuskSo I changed fstab to mount 0p2 as ext2. That just gave the "Invalid argument" error at mount /home16:07
villagerdoes dmesg say anything?16:08
KuskNot as far as I can see16:08
villagerlooks like not16:09
villagerwhat does the partitioning look like now?16:09
KuskThe same as before16:09
KuskAll the partitions is there, but not the /home partition16:10
villagercan you show the fdisk/sfdisk output?16:10
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* lcuk needs a pot of undo for real paper16:15
* SpeedEvil passes lcuk a blue-grey painted police box.16:15
lcukty, but its sharp edges rip the paper when i rub it on it16:15
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DocScrutinizerKusk: ping cehteh !16:19
villagerKusk: if you're desperate, I guess it might be worth trying to wipe the partition with dd before doing mkfs again16:19
DocScrutinizerKusk: read chanlog 9..15h ago16:20
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DocScrutinizerKusk: fstab is generated, won't prolly survive reboot16:22
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KuskDocScrutinizer: Well spank me and call me polly! You were right! The partition is now mounted as home!16:26
GAN900Ah, man, I love how Engadget is completely incapable of using MB/sec and Mbps properly16:26
GAN900"MBps" is not an acceptable compromise.16:26
t-tanKusk: maybe the new page can help?16:30
jacekowskithat's why i never use abbreviations of megabytes and megabits16:30
jacekowskibecause i never remember if it's Mb or MB16:30
jacekowskiand then some wanker came up with idea of havin 2 more units16:30
jacekowskiMib and MiB16:31
Kuskt-tan: Nope, it didn't help. But now I have mounted it as ext216:31
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KuskI just need to find the best way to auto mount the partition as ext2 instead of ext3 at boot16:31
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t-tanKusk: something must be seriously wrong with your device16:32
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GAN900OK, is the Angry Birds level pack actually available?16:32
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GAN900Showing "Item unavailable" here.16:32
Kuskyeah, proberly. The email client have never worked either16:32
t-tanKusk: you could set the partitions to type 0, reboot with temporary /home on NAND, and recreate the partitions16:33
villagerGAN900: think someone said yesterday that the paid content was pulled again16:33
GAN900jacekowski, MB/sec are the big kind. Mbps are the small ones.16:34
GAN900villager, they figured out that patching apt was a dumb plan?16:34
villagerGAN900: no idea16:34
GAN900Love it.16:35
DocScrutinizerwaah they tried to implement DRM in apt??16:35
TomaszDthey did?16:35
TomaszDall I see is that you can't install apps from Ovi using apt any longer16:36
GAN900DocScrutinizer, no, they just patched it to lock out the Ovi stuff.16:36
GAN900Somebody package up apt from PR1.1. ;)16:37
DocScrutinizerGAN900: even more stupid16:37
timeless_mbpovi is supposed to stop supporting pre 1.2 roughly as soon as 1.2 ships16:37
GAN900DocScrutinizer, it's highly entertaining however.16:37
timeless_mbpthe goal is to get everyone to upgrade to 1.216:37
timeless_mbpeven the annoying regional/operator variants16:37
DocScrutinizerGAN900: ack16:38
Shapeshifterdoes anyone actually care about ovi?16:38
timeless_mbpgiven that 1.2 will have a newer gecko16:38
timeless_mbpi'm quite happy w/ that16:38
TomaszDtimeless_mbp, speed improvements?16:38
lcuknice timeless :)16:38
GAN900timeless_mbp, is zooming usable yet?16:38
SpeedEvilThey found the right person to kidnap to blackmail into flash speed improvements?16:39
* GAN900 can't believe Nokia advertised zooming.16:39
jacekowskiis 1.2 released?16:39
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SpeedEvilGAN900: well-done zooming is a featurew16:39
SpeedEvilGAN900: which is why it's odd that it's not everywhere16:39
timeless_mbpGAN900: i think in theory some version of gecko will include useful font kerning16:39
SpeedEvilGAN900: the pdf browser needs some zoomy love16:39
timeless_mbpyou won't get reflow w/o a keystroke iirc16:39
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GAN900SpeedEvil, yeah, and Gecko's broken freaking font rendering makes any and all zooming useless.16:40
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timeless_mbpGAN900: supposedly that'l be fixed in some upgrade, i can't remember if i have a new enough gecko locally to be sure it's in our 1.216:41
timeless_mbpsp3000 would know16:41
villagerthe reflow is crap too, if I want to fit the article text on the screen, not the webpage's huge left navigation bar16:41
timeless_mbpvillager: greasemonkey..16:41
timeless_mbpyou're never going to get a particularly good algorithm for this w/o violating a constraint16:42
timeless_mbpthe official primary constraint is that a page should look like it does on the desktop16:42
timeless_mbpw/ that constraint, zooming will never be particularly useful16:42
DocScrutinizerimpossible mission16:42
DocScrutinizerI'm perfectly happy with ^i16:43
* timeless_mbp frowns16:44
timeless_mbpYou are currently using 6971 MB (93%) of your 7428 MB.16:44
* timeless_mbp is running out of space16:44
timeless_mbp(and time)16:44
prontoi got the cpu load on my n900 to hit 15 yesterday =o16:45
timeless_mbpdoing what?16:45
timeless_mbpeh… just scp?16:45
prontoscp'd a 500mb or so file to it via wifi16:45
* timeless_mbp frowns16:45
timeless_mbpwell, the general theory of the load is 'number of waiting processes'16:46
timeless_mbpscp should be at most 2 processes16:46
timeless_mbpwhich means you somehow managed to bottleneck another dozen or so processes16:46
prontoi guess16:46
prontolater today i'll do it again, see if that happens again16:47
timeless_mbpthe question is 'how would that happen'?16:47
prontothis time i'll be sure nothing else of mine is running, and just scp16:48
jacekowski15 isn't too high16:48
prontobut as soon as the transfer was done, load went back to normal16:48
pronto15 is really high O_o16:48
jacekowskinot really16:48
prontofor a single cpu, one core, with no hyper threading it is16:49
DocScrutinizertbh I don't give a shit on load. Power consumption, responsiveness - yeah. Not load16:49
jacekowskipronto: that depends on scheduler16:49
wolf^jacekowski, for a device that should have desktop-like response characteristics, it's way too much16:49
prontowell , when it was at 15 load, it was laggy has hell16:49
jacekowskipronto: staircase deadline scheduler can handle 90 or more16:49
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jacekowskipronto: and it's still responsive16:49
prontowell i'm talking about for the n900 :\16:50
jacekowskisimiliar one16:50
prontonot some silly thing you know of16:50
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jacekowskicurrent kernel scheduler is sort of similiar to staircase deadline16:50
jacekowski15:49 < pronto> for a single cpu, one core, with no hyper threading it is16:51
prontofor a handheld device a load of 15 is way to high16:51
TomaszDI'm not sure if anyone cares, the fact of the matter is, desktop responsiveness under heavy I/O sucks16:52
TomaszD*heavy disk I/O16:52
jacekowskiload avg should be smaller as you get more cpus16:52
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jacekowskiTomaszD: yeah16:52
lcukhell i bet mainframe performance under heavy load sucks16:52
jacekowskiit's ussualy I/O that kills it all16:52
jacekowskinot CPU16:52
wolf^TomaszD, there were some improvements in 2.6.32 regarding that matter16:52
TomaszDthe kernel is set for maximum I/O throughput, not responsiveness, look at how Windows throttles any disk activity down to make the desktop perform better16:53
wolf^and that's the most stupid thing about linux :>16:53
TomaszDsound used to stutter in Linux under heavy I/O, now it's better, but still not perfect16:53
SpeedEvilstill does16:53
SpeedEvilplay a sound while installing something through the app manager16:53
TomaszDhere it doesn't, but I think it has more to do with how powerful computers have become than anything else16:54
TomaszDah, see16:54
TomaszDhere it does the same16:54
TomaszDKolivas still releases his patches16:55
TomaszDI wonder if they'd help on the n90016:55
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Shapeshifterbrainfuck scheduler :) if I had time to install it, I'd use it16:59
villagersound always stuttered when wormux was loading here... not sure if it's still the case, since I haven't tried after deciding I don't really know how to play... the dumb AI always beat me hands down, and now they've got a better AI...16:59
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t-tanjavispedro: good afternoon17:05
lcukhey javispedro \o17:05
* Shapeshifter played through day of the tentacle on his n900 yesterday :)17:05
DocScrutinizermoin javispedro17:08
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jo-erlendcan someone point me to some documents for beginning maemo development with python?17:13
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jo-erlendI think I'd prefer to use gtk+, since I'm also interested in gnome projects.17:15
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lcukjo-erlend, afaik the pygtk documentation in general applies17:16
javispedrohm.. I much preferred the older fmradio interface.17:16
lcukbut there are some minor specifics for integrating with maemo on the maemo wiki i believe17:16
javispedrothe new fmradio is too much appleish.17:16
lcukjavispedro, blog post or installed17:16
crashanddieA court ruled that a Russian man must pay more than 100,000 rubles ($3,330) for medical bills and damages to the parents of a girl he hit when he jumped from a window in a suicide attempt. The 7-year-old girl was in hospital for months after the man fell on her [...]17:16
crashanddie"Months in the hospital" for only 3 grand? Where the hell is that hospital???17:17
javispedroin Russia.17:17
crashanddiegood point17:17
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crashanddiejavispedro: amazing how you made something very attractive much less attractive just by stating the obvious17:18
javispedroit's just as attractive as it was previously to me :)17:18
Arif_who's attractive?17:18
crashanddieArif_: Hayden Panetierre17:19
Arif_blonde :(17:19
* javispedro tries to remember which kind of bug made him create a testcase consisting in "int main() { return 2;; }"17:21
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crashanddiejavispedro: $_ always returns null?17:21
javispedrodunno -- not a bash script but a C++ program, and it doesnot even call the binary.17:22
javispedrowell. *hits rm -rf key*17:22
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arachnistcrashanddie: $_ is your previous last argument17:27
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arachnistcrashanddie: at least in bash17:27
arachnistcrashanddie: in csh it's your previous command17:27
crashanddiearachnist: highlight me once more when I'm in bed for something so futile, and I'll kick you17:27
arachnistcrashanddie: i dare you ;)17:28
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie17:28
*** arachnist was kicked by crashanddie (shouldn't have)17:28
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie17:28
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arachnistnow, that was childish17:28
crashanddieI'm not the one going around daring people to kick me17:29
* Arif_ kicks crashanddie17:29
crashanddieanyway, goodnight17:29
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lcukcrashanddie, are you asleep yet?17:36
lcukif not, i just wanted to say good night, have a great sleep17:36
javispedroyou pinged him!17:37
* crashanddie shuts down the fucking sound17:37
lcukthats a better solution17:37
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Arif_who is this weird person on the forum talking about warez being bad17:46
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shinkamuiI can't believe Im saying this17:53
shinkamuibut Im thinking about switching back to tmobile17:53
shinkamuilooks like they have great 3g coverage in my area17:53
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Arif_I'm on TMobile17:55
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n00bmonk3yahaaaaaaa - got irc working... shocker17:56
Arif_you installed an iRC program!17:56
n00bmonk3ylol :)17:56
n00bmonk3yhavnt used irc properly for at least 10 years....17:57
ptlwhich IRC client?17:57
ptllemme version you17:57
n00bmonk3yanyway... i need some clever people help :) - asking q's in the forums takes too lon glol17:57
Arif_mIRC \o/17:57
* SpeedEvil is alsot-mobile(uk)17:57
javispedrobaah... so many interesting projects to tackle, so little time.17:57
n00bmonk3ylol everyone is versioning me now17:57
ptl13:09 CTCP VERSION reply from n00bmonk3y: mIRC v6.35 Khaled Mardam-Bey17:57
ptlon the N900?17:58
n00bmonk3yI just wanted to get on here to get help17:58
n00bmonk3ynot planning on marrying an irc client17:58
n00bmonk3yon my laptop lol17:58
javispedrothat's the problem with irc -- you always end up married.17:58
n00bmonk3yn900 is next to me lol17:58
javispedro</weirdo logic>17:58
n00bmonk3ylol javis17:58
ptlfor the N900 X-Chat is nice, although if you dig text clients, irssi is also available17:58
Arif_guis ftw17:58
lcukhiya n00bmonk3y17:59
n00bmonk3yanyway acan someone explain the postinst stuff for me?, i'm stuck! (
n00bmonk3yhey lcuk!!17:59
n00bmonk3ythanks for your help btw :)17:59
lcukyw :)18:00
* lcuk gets on with eating monster scooby snack style sandwich18:00
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n00bmonk3yhmmm my qyestion has shut everyone up lol18:01
* n00bmonk3y ponders18:01
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* n00bmonk3y remembers old irc commands, shocker18:01
* Arif_ yawns18:01
ptlthe concept is simple18:01
ptlrpm also has it18:02
ptlwhen installing or desinstalling a package, it runs scripts:18:02
n00bmonk3yyup got that! :D18:02
n00bmonk3ycreated the sudoers file..18:02
n00bmonk3yput it in the suggested location :D18:02
ptl- before it is actually installed (that is, before its files get to their proper places), that's preinst18:02
n00bmonk3ynow just need to know if i create postinst files? or do i just leave them18:02
ptl- after it is actually installed, postinst18:02
n00bmonk3yand my sudoers file is enough?18:02
ptl- before it is deinstalled, prerm18:03
ptl- after it is deinstalled, postrm18:03
n00bmonk3yhmmmm still doesnt explain what i need to do :P18:03
ptlit is nice to undo any changes you have made on deinstalling the programa (prerm and postrm scripts)18:03
lcukto be safe i always include postapocalypse file18:04
n00bmonk3yahhh gd point18:04
ptlit might be wise to read a good tutorial about package management for it, because I am not very good to explain that18:04
n00bmonk3ylol lcuk!18:04
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n00bmonk3ythats the prob ptl... so many tutorials, very hard to know what solution is for what method and to be used when.....18:04
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lcukwith qt being cross platform and not every system uses debian18:04
lcuk(ie meego..)18:05
ptlmany tutorials? for apt you have the apt-howto18:05
n00bmonk3ygood point18:05
lcuki wonder if a qt native solution might be available18:05
ptland for rpm there are a couple of good tutorials too18:05
n00bmonk3ywell, i used autobuilder and i got my app in devel :) - i thought that was me done lol18:05
lcukthats the thing18:05
ptlwhen I learned rpm, there was something called maximum rpm18:05
lcukwith qt you shouldnt care for debian or rpm and installshield or anything18:05
n00bmonk3yto be honest, i dont know enough about linux, i have sneaked this far in my pythoning without to much of it....18:06
javispedro lcuk: currently you have to care.18:06
javispedroNokia pointed that since they wanted you to care about .deb packaging & symbian packaging, they don't mind making you care about RPM packaging too :P18:06
lcukthen the paradigm fails and solutions sould be saught18:06
n00bmonk3yhmmm anyway back to the question.....18:07
n00bmonk3yI understand i need to run commands on install and uninstall18:07
n00bmonk3ydo i create a postinst file? if so where do i put it?18:07
javispedron00bmonk3y: I'm still suspicious why you'd need to run apt-get clean from your program :P18:07
n00bmonk3yjavis - best not to ask lol18:07
lcukn00bmonk3y, doesnt reboot work already18:07
lcukwhy do you need to mess18:07
n00bmonk3yreboot works fine :D18:07
lcukie, i found reboot !18:07
n00bmonk3yi was to run a script that saves n900 rootfs space :) (Moves icon folders etc etc) - needs root18:08
lcukand, no adding apt-get to the user list isnt the right way18:08
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n00bmonk3ylcuk - moved the reboot button in the next version18:08
lcukas for space saving, there are other things in progress afaik :)18:09
lcukopen source ftw18:09
timeless_mbplcuk: hey, i used to have a reboot in my package :)18:09
lcukwas yours added on purpose tho!18:10
n00bmonk3yanywy, even if someone else is doing it, doesnt stop me from wanting to do it also :D18:10
lcukdid you know that the postinst script is run under root context18:11
lcukie, you dont need to add to sudoers18:11
lcukif your action is one off and only needs to occur at install time18:11
n00bmonk3yhave to admit i'm doing this slowly... but enoying the whole experience, even if 100 times for confusing then vb etc... just because learning resources are so hard to find!18:11
lcukhow long have you been a vb developer?18:12
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n00bmonk3ylol thats an interesting one... but have done vb / asp etc on and off for 15 years.....18:12
n00bmonk3y(damn i'm getting old)18:12
lcukheh i felt that at my 35 birthday a couple of weeks ago18:12
* lcuk shudders18:12
n00bmonk3y8 months till i go over the hill......18:13
Arif_you're more than twice my age....:P18:13
lcukArif_, and you should have twice the experience i do with linux!18:13
Arif_apt-get install rtorrent18:13
Arif_is all I need18:13
lcuktimeless, which package?18:14
lcukthe languages one?18:14
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benbrownHey guys, anyone know if there's a browser object I can use in an app to show html? I'm a bit new at this gtk/hildon lark18:14
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n00bmonk3yqwebview in qt i think? but i'm just as new :P18:15
lcukn00bmonk3y, you see in that optify script i posted18:15
lcukit has contents in the debian folder18:15
n00bmonk3ythis one?
lcukwhen the debian package is built, if postinstall exists it is dragged into package18:15
lcukyeah go back a level from there18:15
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n00bmonk3ycan see a debian folder18:15
benbrownhmm, not using qt18:16
lcukyeah, that package is a very simplistic script only one, but should allow you to see what you need18:16
lcuktimeless, incase you missed it18:16
lcuktimeless, which package?18:16
timeless_mbplcuk: my string replacement18:16
n00bmonk3yyeah thats perfect!18:17
lcukahh yes, i can see why that needed18:17
timeless_mbpwhile i was having trouble w/ files being used w/o proper locking18:17
n00bmonk3ythanks Lcuk18:17
lcuknp again18:17
timeless_mbpi skip the reboot these days, but it doesn't work perfectly18:17
timeless_mbplocale swaps really do need reboots...18:17
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lcukbenbrown, ive seen a couple of gtk html widgets, im sure someone went over all of them in talk.maemo.org18:24
* lcuk goes watching babylon 518:24
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javispedrome wants. it's been quite a lot of time since they last syndicated it here.18:24
Arif_anyone know what user/bin/xorg does?18:24
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javispedroit's a virus! it shows windows and graphics stuff instead of command line prompts18:24
lcukArif_, i havent got a /user/bin/xorg18:25
javispedroisn't it /usr18:25
Arif_could be18:25
inzdangerous virus, has infected almost every Linux installation18:25
lcukfor good reason!18:26
Arif_I found out why my battery was 1/4th full when I woke up18:26
lcukanyone who knows the console stuff is a witch18:26
Arif_apparently recaller was running for 12 hours18:26
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* lcuk gahs at media player date order lists and not seeing entire title of what i want to watch18:27
SWFuStill no UK update.18:27
* javispedro has fallen in love with mediaplayer now that all my albums have albumart18:27
* Arif_ has the feeling the media player was written in like 2 hours18:28
n00bmonk3yw000p - just bought a book on pyqt :D18:30
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Arif_what is this bought thing you talk about :p18:31
n00bmonk3yknow its got old stuff in it, but hopefully will be a good reference -
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Arif_the last app I bought was DVBViewer18:32
n00bmonk3ylol book, not app :P18:32
Arif_it both involves giving money!18:32
n00bmonk3ygood point :P18:32
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n00bmonk3yThe item was peerless - genius!18:35
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* Arif_ makes some of these comments and posts them to Ovi store18:36
derfBe sure to use the phase, "Remarkably quotidian packaging."18:36
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SWFuis it possible on the n900 te get nokia messaging using wifi insted gprs?18:36
SWFuI can't see an option18:37
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timeless_mbpSWFu: um18:39
timeless_mbpafaik nokia messaging doesn't care18:39
timeless_mbpand will use your 'internet' connection18:39
n00bmonk3yOoo lcuk - got the the front camera working on healthcheck!18:39
timeless_mbphowever, i don't use nokia messaging18:39
SWFuonly running gprs here, pretty anoying when trying to attachments18:39
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n00bmonk3ylol the back one isnt now lol18:41
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MandatorYou can't use both camera at the same time18:45
n00bmonk3yyeah i know18:46
n00bmonk3ywohooo both working now :)18:46
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Arif_is it supposed to take ages to charge the phone over USB?18:48
Mandatorfrom a cpu you mean ?18:49
Arif_from the PC18:49
Arif_it's still charging after 3 hours18:49
Arif_I have the feeling something is eating my battery :O18:49
Mandatornah USB charging is slow18:50
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Mandatorcheck with Conky18:51
MandatorI meant for rogue application that is eating your battery18:52
* Arif_ should18:52
javispedrousb charging takes 5-6 hours here18:53
Mandatorit is slow18:53
GAN900Arif_, USB is only 500mA18:53
n00bmonk3yw00p Healthcheck 0.5.1-1 on its way to autobuilder :)18:53
GAN900The AC-10 is 120018:53
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n00bmonk3ylcuk - this one includes your button move ;) hehe - and the front camera option18:53
Arif_that makes sense18:54
Arif_it takes about 2+ hours to charge via the normal charger18:54
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dovHello. Anyone here who has built c-python modules under scratchbox? I get the error message: /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy18:59
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n00bmonk3yw000p 0.5.1-1 in extras-devel :)19:01
n00bmonk3ysorry dov - no idea :(19:01
pajpdid telepathy-msn-pecan just brake with the latest update?19:02
dovGot it. Did "python2.5 build" instead of "python build".19:02
n00bmonk3yhehe :)19:02
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* dov is now going to check if his zoom-key disabling python module works on the N900.19:03
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n00bmonk3yright off out :) - cheers for your help earlier everyone :D19:07
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pupniki forgot who was asking but battery went from full at 10:30 to low battery warning at 16:5519:12
pupnikworry 15:5519:12
lcukpupnik, what were you running19:13
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DocScrutinizerfull backlight, high CPU load, and maybe heavy UMTS traffic, I guess19:15
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pupnikirc, podcasts, opened perhaps 20 webpages19:15
pupnik3 bard backlight19:15
Arif_just stream a tv channel19:15
Arif_your battery will die in less than a hour19:15
DocScrutinizerwell, some of those 20 pages might have flash19:15
Stskeepsflash enabled or disabled?19:15
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Arif_N900 seems to be hit and miss19:16
V13the fastest battery drain I've seen was when the thumbnailerd was stuck.19:17
cehteheh hi ...19:17
V13(or was rescanning everything.. i'm not sure... I've >1GB photos in SD card)19:17
Arif_V13, what about Quake 3 multiplayer over 3G on TV out19:18
Arif_with a bluetooth keyboard!19:18
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pajpanyone else has telepathy-msn-pecan installed?19:18
Arif_and conversations set to show your location on MSN and Skype19:18
Arif_I wonder how long it'll last that way19:18
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pupnikV13: could have had some thumbnailer lameness too.  disabling it now19:20
dovIf the N900 is connected to the powercord, can you use the phone "infinitely"? I'm in a situtation that when it is on it drains faster than it charges. :-(19:20
DocScrutinizerpupnik: flash!19:20
pupnikhard to believe dov19:20
shamusthink i finaly curteled my 800's battery vampire som what as im curently getign about a day idle time with wifi on19:20
ShadowJKdov, with the wall charger you wont be able to draw more power than it gives19:21
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V13ShadowJK: famous last words? :)19:21
ShadowJKon USB when using N900 as USB modem, I've sometimes seen the voltage steadily inch downwards19:22
shamusstuck demions are batery killers19:22
dovTop doesn't show anything.19:22
dovPerhaps the charger is bad. I should try with the usb cable and see if it makes a difference.19:22
DocScrutinizer~tell ShadowJK about batteryfaq19:23
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ShadowJKeh, again?19:23
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ShadowJKwhat for..19:24
DocScrutinizerdropping voltage is a normal effect19:25
cehtehah so19:25
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lcukdov powercord or usb?19:26
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, well from ~4100 to ~3700 while connected to usb charging? :-)19:26
lcukand what else is running19:26
cehtehShadowJK: does it really charge?19:26
dovicuk: powercord19:26
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: no, that's too much19:26
ShadowJKIt started climbing up again once I closed the 2MBit/s video stream I had been watching :P19:26
ShadowJK(on my PC, with N900 as modem)19:26
lcukdov sounds like something else is going on, tho the fastest way to charge is to turn off everything, usually its not so drastic19:27
dovicuk: It happened both when I was watching a "local" movie, but since then when the N900 was basically idle.19:27
lcukdoes your cell signal fluctuate often19:27
lcukps, its L19:27
dovicuk: Nope.19:27
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, someone posted the N900 schematics, if you still want them19:27
dovI installed battery eye now and will see how fast it charges in offline mode.19:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: WHERE??19:28
MohammadAGknock yourself out
lcukdov, its likely something else is afoot19:28
ShadowJKdov: battery-eye and basically all the meters don't update during charge19:28
MohammadAG"Service Schematics"19:28
MohammadAGnever thought I'd see these19:28
dovshadowjk: Right, but at least I'll get a snapshot at the beginning of the charging and at the end of the charging and can see how fast it charges.19:29
ShadowJKSome time after the battery is full, battery-eye and friends update to full :P19:29
ShadowJKIt averages out to about 500mA charge rate empty to full19:29
ShadowJK(80 - 95% is very slow)19:29
pupnik  us government asshole announces new era of internet regulation19:29
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dovshadowjk: That's the drain from the power cord?19:30
dovshadowjk: Do you know how much is the max drain from usb according to the usb spec?19:30
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, Venomrush found them, he's on tmo, seen the post on Nokia Users19:30
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ShadowJKrapidshare doesn't want to serve free users tonight :-(19:31
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: thanks!19:31
MohammadAGShadowJK, I can happily reupload it for you :)19:31
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yeah :-(19:31
ShadowJKdov, the charge starts out at 1200mA from the wall charger, as the battery gets fuller and fuller the rate is lowered and lowered, at probably 50-100mA charge rate the battery is then declared full19:32
ShadowJKMohammadAG, do it :-)19:32
MohammadAGreupping, if you want the link send me a /notice since I'm trafficsharing it :)19:32
MohammadAGsomething's not right Upload speed: 20 KB/Sec, Time remaining: 4:32 minutes :/19:32
dovSo with a 1320 charger it should take roughly 2h.19:32
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dovThat's not happening to me. Not even with the device off.19:33
ShadowJKdov, something like that yeah19:33
lcukturn off wireless, shut down apps, turn screen off and you could do it faster19:33
dovs/1320 charger/1320mAh battery/19:33
* lcuk charges like that from laptop->n900 whilst travelling19:34
ShadowJKdov, yeah i'd try usb from pc too if the wall charger isn't making sense19:35
ShadowJKor if you have an old nokia charger, try it with the included adapter (unless you're in the US in whcih case you didn't get an adapter)19:35
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dovHmm... I have a broken Nokia power adapter cord. I could try to connect it to a ampere meter and see how much it draws when charging.19:35
lcukare there any inductive charge plates for nokia phones19:36
lcukthat could be hacked and tried to use on our n90019:36
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Arif_lcuk make one!19:37
Arif_and build a toothbrush into the N900 while you're at it19:37
Arif_there's probably enough space to put a few liter of toothpaste somewhere in there anyway :D19:37
lcukArif_, nahh toothpaste is ugly19:38
lcuksecurity at airports dont like it when it oozes out19:38
lcukhard enough trying to hide the bacon grill19:38
lcukSpeedEvil, there is one of those already under the screen19:39
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lcukif you place a rasher of bacon on the open keyboard and slide it in19:39
cehtehhey did you noticed that you can pull the stylus 2/3 out while phoning for the classic antenna feel? :)19:39
lcuka few minutes later it will be cooked19:39
lcuktheres even little trip channels19:39
cehtehok it on the wrong side :P19:39
Arif_cehteh I lost mine so no :(19:39
cehteh6Eur ...19:39
lcukcehteh, was just gonna say "classic mobile n00b holding phone wrong way19:40
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Arif_I thought of it19:40
Arif_and €7 is too much for a pen :P19:40
Arif_I ordered an external charger instead19:40
lcukespecially one with no ink19:40
Arif_and 2 batteries :P19:40
Arif_I"ll just grow nails I guess19:40
* lcuk watches next babylon 5 episode19:41
Arif_on the N900? ;P19:41
lcukyes actually19:41
cehtehok .. i tinhk all restored now, did just the last bits, making MyDocs ext419:41
cehtehgonna reformat the uSD too19:41
Arif_gotta love those downloaded XviDs \o/19:41
lcukArif_, i used to watch things in a little window whilst still carrying on coding19:41
lcuknow i just use n90019:42
Arif_try watching it fullscreen19:42
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lcukArif_, dvd reencodes actually19:42
Arif_that'll work too I guess19:42
lcukand nahhh fullscreen is OTT19:42
lcukive got a pair of monitors19:42
lcukand having movie on with volume == loud bings and bongs from os19:43
lcukwhen doing stuff on other screen19:43
* Arif_ has 100 GB of recorded stuff he still has to watch :O19:43
Arif_which probably equals to about 10 hours :P19:43
lcukthese eps are really encoded low19:43
lcuki did them first for my 81019:44
lcukonly 120mb per episode19:44
Arif_these are direct satrips19:44
Arif_no encoding yet19:44
DocScrutinizersomeone with a RS premium account can send me a mail with that friggin file please?19:44
Arif_what file19:44
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Arif_are you downloading warez again :P19:46
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AlMehdicehteh: did you feel any improvement with ext4?19:48
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MohammadAGMediafire link for the schematics
MohammadAGcan anyone help me confirm something with MCE / the LEDs on the N900?19:50
pupnik~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg lets you disable indexing on battery.  nice19:50
Arif_indexing on battery?19:50
Arif_so it won't index when the battery is <%20 or something?19:51
MohammadAGWhen the N900's light sensor is put under a strong light (sunlight should be enough), the LED's brightness goes down by a huge amount19:51
Arif_I'd like to help you with that but we have no sun in .nl19:51
fragmentMohammadAG: oh, I've been wondering why my leds are so dark19:51
MohammadAGlol any white light should do the same19:51
microlithArif_: no, it disables indexing when on battery19:51
Arif_even better!19:52
MohammadAGI thought mine shorted or something19:52
Arif_and you can't fix that? xD19:52
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MohammadAGrestarted MCE but the LEDs didn't work, when I went home, the LED was working again19:52
fragmentMohammadAG: led dark even when covering the light sensor19:52
MohammadAGdark as in?19:53
MohammadAGmine stops working under light19:53
Arif_I found glow in the dark contact lenses19:53
* MohammadAG facepalms19:53
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fragmentMohammadAG: the charging led is normally bright orange. mine is sometimes barely noticeable green19:54
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: PaulFertser: GAIA VBUS and VINTUSB1P5.OUT19:55
MohammadAGcould be broken?19:55
DocScrutinizerVBAT.USB VUSB.3P119:56
pupnikno indexing when running on battery Arif_19:56
fragmentMohammadAG: dunno, seems random.19:56
DocScrutinizerso the good news: USB hostmode not completely dead yet19:57
* dov managed to disable the volume-keys from python!19:58
pupnikwould help a lot to have a cable that didnt rip off the usb connector19:58
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pupnikYou should all read E.M. Forsters "The Machine Stops" - short story about humanity sucked into an indoor-dwelling, internet addicted future humanity - written ca. 190020:02
ShadowJKhah, the fuel gauge doesn't seem to be connected to any current sensors20:02
ShadowJKjust as i thought20:02
Arif_pupnik, welcome to the....present?20:02
MohammadAGpupnik, I was thinking of a battery cover that encloses a portable charger (extra battery), it plugs into the USB port to charge it and has a USB port so that you don't have to plug it in or remove it from the port itself when charging20:02
MohammadAGif you get what I mean20:02
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ShadowJKor wait, hm.20:03
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: shiny20:03
MohammadAGoh and since it will make it thicker, a large kickstand can be added20:03
pupnikMohammadAG: seen the mugen extended battery?20:03
MohammadAGpupnik, yeah, the draft photos, the cover looks ugly, and it doesn't 'move' the USB port as I suggested :)20:03
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pupnikhow would you attach a seperate usb?20:04
Arif_MohammadAG, you want an even THICKER N900?20:04
MohammadAGpupnik, extender cable in the back cover20:04
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: now for N4200 datasheet20:04
MohammadAGArif_, it would make it thicker and longer :)20:04
Arif_it's already a brick20:04
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: :) not up to reading schematics ATM :/20:05
joejoehi, i am trying to install SDK, but there are some errors (maybe it because of python 2.6.4 and qt 4.6.2) ...20:05
joejoeR N900?20:05
pupnikspare batteries and external charger for me20:05
joejoe$ sudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py20:05
joejoe[sudo] password for imlich:20:05
joejoeTraceback (most recent call last):20:05
joejoe  File "./", line 3764, in <module>20:05
joejoe    main()20:05
joejoe  File "./", line 3753, in main20:05
joejoe    wizard = InstallWizard()20:05
joejoe  File "./", line 3654, in __init__20:05
joejoe    self.setPage(PageIdNokiaBins, NokiaBinsPage())20:05
MohammadAGArif_, I bought it like that and I'm happy that it's a brick :p20:05
joejoe  File "./", line 1768, in __init__20:05
joejoe    self.registerField(FNInstallNokiaApps, self.nokia_apps_checkbox, "checked", "toggled(bool)")20:05
joejoeTypeError: QWizardPage.registerField(QString, QWidget, str property=None, SIGNAL() changedSignal=0): argument 4 has unexpected type 'str'20:05
joejoeQProcess: Destroyed while process is still running.20:05
MohammadAGjoejoe, pastebin :/20:05
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joejoeMohammadAG,  few lines, what ever. But, is there any solution?20:06
MohammadAGnot that I know of, do you have Qt4 bindings installed?20:06
MohammadAGor pyQt4 IIRC20:06
lcukan app which challenges the geekness of our devices
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lcukeither that or so we can know when our significant other becomes a werewolf20:08
joejoei have package python-qt420:09
benbrownAnyone know how to make nice looking buttons with gtk+ on maemo? I've been trying to find it on the forums but my searches aren't pulling back anything useful20:10
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MohammadAGif only there was a microUSB one20:12
* dov has now managed to change VolumeDown and VolumeUp to PageUp and PageDown for his python etext reader. 20:12
microlithhas anyone else looked at the schematic pdf and spotted serial/jtag outputs?20:13
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MohammadAGmicrolith, isn't there one behind the battery? as mentioned in the wiki page20:14
microlithright, there are contacts there20:14
microlithI'm trying to spot what they are hooked up to on the schematic20:14
MohammadAGserial-console - Enables the serial console (the serial port pins are next to the battery) and causes a shorter battery life.20:15
MohammadAGoh ok20:15
nomismhm, it is funny how these omweather updates fail to solve my problems.20:16
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* ShadowJK just ordered a mugen battery for n900, a few hours too late for the cheaper price :-(20:18
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DocScrutinizernomis: you haven't heard it's just the forecast for next 9 days updated via HAM? :-P20:18
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nomisDocScrutinizer: oh, I see!!1!20:19
* DocScrutinizer warming uplaser printer. Got some schem to printout20:20
b0unc3can I use the icons in  /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/hildon for my maemo-app ?20:20
shinkamuiShadowJK, I MUST know how that works and looks20:20
shinkamuiI really am thinking about getting one too20:21
shinkamuidid they finally get rid of the concept drawing and show a real pic of the actual product?20:21
ShadowJKprobably wont get it until end of march though20:21
shinkamuiunfortunately im at work atm and mugens site is filtered by websense ;)20:21
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dovbenbrown: Have you tried gtk themes for changing the buttons?20:22
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ShadowJK<strikethrough>We expect first shipment of N900XL batteries on March 1st.</strikethrough> We are re-designing the back cover to make it better and this causes a small delay. First shipment is expected on March 15.20:22
benbrowndov: no, I'm pretty new to this. You got any docs?20:23
dovbenbrown: I gave a talk about gtk and perl a few years ago, but the idea is the same no matter what language you write in. See:
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* luke-jr ponders a componentized handheld design20:24
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: odd. CIR is indeed hooked to PWM, not CIR UART.20:26
luke-jrthink it'd waste too much space to put the SoC/RAM/etc in a card and install that in a LCD/keyboard/etc case? ;)20:26
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benbrowndov: any idea which themes come with maemo?20:26
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that's really another game now :-D20:27
dovProbably none except from the default maemo theme.20:27
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yeah - I'm just casually glancing at stuff not reading it in depth at the moment. Feeling horrible.20:28
dovbenbrown: You should be able to install any theme e.g. from .20:29
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: just printing it - for lecture during dinner20:29
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dovbenbrown: It won't look like maemo anymore though. But it might be good for making a button "stand out".20:29
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer r5815?20:32
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benbrownhmm, that's not really what I want20:33
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer some sort of tvs I guess20:34
benbrownI have an app that uses hildon_button_new_with_text, but the buttons look flat. If you compare them with the buttons in the menus, or the Email client, they look a bit rubbish20:34
shinkamuiShadowJK, n00000000020:36
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shinkamuiwell, still, that might be good20:36
dovbenbrown: That's seems to be a "theming decision" in maemo. You can overwrite it (by styles, etc) but then your application will look different from the rest of the maemo applics, for good or for bad.20:36
shinkamuiI hope they add a sliding door20:36
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shinkamuibecause the original design looked kinda crappy20:36
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ShadowJKthe original design is something someone drew in photoshop20:36
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ESD20:38
MohammadAGThe extended battery's cover breaks camerad/proximityd20:38
MohammadAGsorry, shortcutd not proximityd20:38
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V13I just made another prog but I don't dare posting an announce in t.m.o. :-)20:44
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: N1322 ??20:47
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ShadowJKMohammadAG, we haven't even seen any covers yet?20:49
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: V1303 o.O20:49
MohammadAGShadowJK, the draft photo20:49
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: annoyingly, it can't be searched.20:49
ShadowJKthe draft photo is useless :P20:50
MohammadAGit doesn't have a lens cover, so proximityd will always think the lens is open20:50
DocScrutinizerevince rules20:50
MohammadAGor closed, assuming they forgot the black/white part20:50
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: much worse are the missing component names20:52
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: annoying, yeah20:52
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DocScrutinizernot even the biggest chips got any20:52
Jef91Wow, so my n900 battery has tanked to half in less than 2 hours of usage20:53
SpeedEvilBut stuff like partnumbers for the prox sensor or battery charge meter'd be nice20:53
* SpeedEvil goes to sleep.20:53
DocScrutinizernot to mention things like N1301 which I know happens to be LP552320:53
SpeedEvila nice annotated schem would be nice - but...20:54
LynoureWould anyone of you have a need for a spare stylus for N800?20:54
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: g'nite20:54
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LynoureI have one I'd gladly send to someone who needs it, as opposed to throwing it away20:55
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ShadowJKtry the sales forum on tmo?20:58
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Arif_Lynoure, is it the same as the N900's? :p21:02
LynoureArif_: not at all21:02
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LynoureArif_: otherwise I would give it to Iridian, who has made his a bit weatherworn.21:03
Arif_I lost mine :(21:03
Arif_and I'm not paying €7 for a new one21:03
Arif_angry birds is on warez sites21:04
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nixarMaemoany idea why my n900 can see my f12 workstation in avahi browser but not the other way around?21:04
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grobiHi, is somebody using a N900?21:10
Arif_I am21:10
Arif_kind of21:10
waoisn't this maemo channel? :S21:10
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marmoutegrobi: typing from it.21:11
grobiWhen I am running Debian the (full) battery last for 1 1/2 hour. - Normal?21:11
DocScrutinizermore like going to abuse it ;-P21:11
luke-jrgrobi: probably21:12
grobiIn CHroot of course21:12
luke-jrwao: never heard of N810, N800, and 770?21:12
DocScrutinizerand the famous 770 cluste at garage21:13
marmoutegrobi: must be something preventing the CPU to go to sleep21:15
pupniknice how n900 survives sauna humidity21:16
waoluke-jr: well, that was just irony ofc21:16
pupnikyou are serious grobi ?21:16
fluxpupnik, however, not guaranteed it'll last for long period after that?-)21:16
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maherhow do i change the font/background colors in modest? (I would like white text on black background)21:25
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pupnikthat is hard to find support for21:28
maherpupnik: what? fix it for me now!21:29
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pupniki like dark backgrounds too. but n900 goes outside too often for that21:30
pupniktry forcing dark colors on desktop firefox someday. some elements still insist on black text on blackbg21:31
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mahergreat - modest stores my imap passwords in plain text in its conf files21:36
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arachnistmaher: most email clients and web browsers do either that, or very poor encryption21:38
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prontoaww adobe flash dosen't see the cameras21:41
fluxpupnik, hey I did just that21:42
fluxpupnik, then I wrote a greasemonkey script to set the background color of pages white..21:42
flux(when I find buggy pages)21:42
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pupnikflux, you have a greasemonkey script that can force my firefox text to light color?21:44
pupnikshould be famous21:45
fluxpupnik, nope, it touches only the background, so it's still sometimes hard to see pages ;)21:45
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jo-erlendwhen developing applications for maemo and nokia n900, do I have to consider screen size much, or will the framework adjust it to fit a small size automatically?21:46
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pupnikif you develop for n900 specifically why wouldnt you optimize to 800x48021:49
V13jo-erlend: you've to have in mind that you can't fit a lot of things on the screen.21:50
lcukjo-erlend, screen size is less of an issue than aspect ratio21:50
lcukits easier to make a layout that works at 320*240 upto 800*480 and above but extremely difficult to use that same layout at 480*80021:51
lbtnext Summit discussion in #meego BTW...21:53
jo-erlendlcuk, oh, ok. Then I want to create one GUI for lanscape and another for portrait?21:54
pupnikpretty quiet lcuk21:54
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Aranelanyone knows where can I find HAM category icons?22:05
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strcpyhi everybody ,22:09
strcpyannoying network lag (on SSH) while wifi is on it`s default power-saving mode. downloads also never seems to start in this mode. only after switching to more relaxed option, or disabling power-saving ,things goes fine. is it expected behaviour ?!22:09
MohammadAG_damn weather made my router reboot 4 times22:09
SpeedEvilstrcpy: some routers are annoying22:09
SpeedEvilstrcpy: I get normal behaviour with only 200ms or so worst-case lag.22:10
SpeedEvilstrcpy: with powersave enabled22:10
strcpySpeedEvil: thanks for comments. so you confirm non-rfc compliance implementation in routers too ?22:11
SpeedEvilstrcpy: ?22:11
SpeedEvilstrcpy: what do you mean non-rfc?22:11
SpeedEvilThere are several.22:11
strcpytalking with some others, they had the same guess ( based on their router working fine) that it`s cus of bad implementation of wifi standards in some routers...22:12
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strcpymine is U.S.robotics22:12
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SpeedEvilOlder routers tend not to implement teh powersaving stuff.22:13
strcpySpeedEvil: there are some standards (documented in RFCs)on how to design a wifi-router for example .22:13
SpeedEvilFor various reasons up to and including that it wasn't made.22:13
SpeedEvilnot RFCs22:13
SpeedEvilit's an add-on to the wlan standard basically22:13
strcpyI didn`t knew about it being kind of add-on :)22:14
strcpythough it`s something every vendor should have22:15
SpeedEvilBut the standard was created relatively recently.22:15
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SpeedEvilAnd there are routers that are in service that are older than this.22:15
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asj_if you increase the beacon interval on the router it may make powersavings play better22:16
asj_(well ap)22:16
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strcpyasj_: I`ll give it a try22:16
Aranelanyone knows where can I find HAM category icons?22:17
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strcpyasj_:  any recommendation on how much to reduce intervals ? like by 50% ?22:18
asj_it's just a guess, but the 802.11 radio in the n900 is going to power down and only listen for beacons (every 100ms) which contains or is followed by data telling stations if there are any wiating packets for them.  If you reduce this it should reduce the lag as well, assuming the n900 wakes up for each beacon.22:19
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strcpyreducing beacons really made some improvements on this issue :) good idea22:20
asj_good! :)22:20
asj_it'll use more power though, that's the downside22:21
strcpydefault was 1000 , 500 seems fine . how ever I should pick more strict number with try & error22:21
strcpylot`s of beacons in the air...22:21
asj_1000ms? or 1000 beacons/sec?22:21
asj_normal beacon interval is 100ms, or 10/second22:21
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strcpyit`s mentioned as "interval" in router22:22
cehtehoh yay .. bricked the device again :/ .. the 'kernel-flasher-maemo' package just udapted broke it22:22
strcpyboth means same thing :)22:22
asj_strcpy: I would set the interval to 100ms22:22
strcpymust be 1000ms22:22
strcpy1000ps is crazy !22:22
asj_most devices expect 100ms, 1000ms is 1 second22:23
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strcpynow it only should be tested to find which case use less power : #switching p.saving to medium , or reducing beacons on router ...22:24
asj_bricked == turned into a paper weight, unrecoverable by except perhaps at the factory (or via jtag).  Since when has it come to mean OTA upgrade failed?22:24
Aranelanyone knows where can I find HAM category icons? {asking every 5 minutes :P }22:25
strcpyAranel: if anybody knows, you`d probably get some answers22:25
JaffaAranel: /etc/hildon/theme/backgrounds/22:25
strcpyno need to repeat22:25
JaffaAranel: Check Catorise source for exact details22:26
Aranelthanks Jaffa =)22:27
Aranelsorry strcpy, but sometimes repeating it twice helps =)22:27
JaffaAranel: specifically, /etc/hildon/theme/backgrounds/app_install_*.png22:28
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* Jaffa realised he has Catorise installed, and is on his N900 so could just, y'know, check.22:29
Aranel^^ do you know if they're licensed strictly or not?22:29
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AranelI'm thinking of using them on another Maemo-related project.22:30
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Markus23is there any time registration app for n90022:39
Markus23I basically only want to know how many hours per week I work for a project22:39
Markus23so very basic app would be enough!22:39
pupnik_find a linux app or write own22:40
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Markus23pupnik_: honestly I dont even know a linux app for time registrations, do you know one?22:40
pupnik_i only tracked with lotus notes22:41
fluxobviously the answer is.. emacs!22:41
Markus23there was an idea of using wtmp for that22:41
mgedminMarkus23, there's gtimelog with a very unresponsive upstream maintainer (yours truly), but it was never ported to Maemo22:41
mgedminshouldn't be too difficult -- it's all Python and PyGtk22:41
fluxI thought I saw such a tool for n900, actually, but I can't seem to find it so perhaps it doesn't exist.22:41
Markus23so that I login with a specific user when the work begins, and log out when it ends22:41
pupnik_mgedmin: ++22:41
Markus23flux: would help me a lot22:42
Markus23the time registration would begin tomorrow, so no time for porting :-)22:42
fluxuse a spreatsheet app via vnc from your workstation? ..22:42
* mgedmin googles22:43
lcukmgedmin, \@ port gtimelog to allow irc logging22:43
maherdoes anyone know where modest hides its font color settings?22:43
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mgedminMarkus23, does have any suggestions?22:43
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* mgedmin reads22:44
mgedminnot really22:44
mgedminheh, gtimelog runs without any modifications22:45
mgedmindoesn't even look too bad22:46
mgedminif you've got extras-devel you can try it out: sudo apt-get install python-glade2 bzr; bzr get lp:gtimelog; cd gtimelog; python gtimelog22:47
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DocScrutinizerpff, read catorize is autosorting to HAM categories, so I decided for MyMenu. Alas this one as well doesn't allow me to config the submenus and apps therein according to my needs :-/22:47
Markus23mgedmin: is gtimelog available in repositories?22:48
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mgedminMarkus23, no22:48
Markus23so the debian package there works?22:48
mgedminno debian package, I checked out the upstream version from bazaar22:48
mgedmincheck out the screenshots/description at
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mgedminif the principle of the thing seems right for you, I can try to build a Maemo package tonight22:49
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trip0so how good is the n900's gps.  i can't seem to get a signal22:52
mgedmintrip0, pretty good if you've got a SIM card, pretty awful if you don't22:52
trip0ahh, i don't have a sim card22:52
trip0hmm, why does it need one i wonder?22:52
mgedminassisted GPS is faster22:53
mgedminit can download ephemeris and almanac over 3G instead of trickling them from the satellites at 1.5 Kbit/s22:53
trip0AGPS == cell tower trianglation?22:53
mgedminalso, I believe it uses cell tower info22:53
mgedminno, AGPS is different22:53
mgedminactually, maybe cell tower info is a subset of AGPS22:54
mgedminthese terms are confusing22:54
Markus23mgedmin: yeah, prinziple is perfect22:54
Markus23but I could also install it in easy debian22:54
Markus23but package would be cool :-)22:54
mgedminanyway, there's a user interface bug: the GPS may need 5-6 minutes to acquire a fix, but the software times out sooner and disables the GPS, resetting the process back to zero22:54
mgedmintrip0, to get the initial fix, launch ovi maps and keep the screen from blanking22:55
mgedminafter that it should get subsequent fix's faster, maybe22:55
mgedminactually, it may have been fixed in latter firmwares, I wasn't keeping track22:55
mgedminMarkus23, there's a package in debian/ubuntu22:55
mgedminI can port it quickly, it won't be hildonized22:56
trip0agps fixed in firmware?22:56
mgedmintrip0, no, timeouts increased to 3 minutes22:56
mgedminbug 533722:56
povbotBug Ovi Maps gives up finding GPS lock too soon22:56
Markus23mgedmin: debian package does not install to /opt...22:56
trip0i probably need to flash to get firmware updates?22:56
mgedminor bug 7026 or bug 287822:56
povbotBug Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view22:56
trip0or can i do an over the air "maemo" update?22:56
povbotBug Very poor satellite acquisition with internal GPS22:56
mgedminMarkus23, pymaemo-optify takes care of that transparently22:57
jacekowskitrip0: only difference between agps and gps is that agps have capability to get ephemeris from internet22:57
mgedmintrip0, you should be able to get FW updates over the air22:57
cehtehuse maep or maemo mapper then gps works pretty well22:57
jacekowskitrip0: while normal not assisted gps has to get them from sattelite22:57
jacekowskitrip0: which requires better signal22:57
jacekowskisome gpses can get that data of internet offline22:58
jacekowskilike tomtom22:58
jacekowskiwhere you download data for next week from internet22:58
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jacekowskiand store it in internal memory of device22:59
mgedminhas anybody seen a "how to hildonize a PyGtk app" tutorial recently?23:00
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V13I believe the gps thing is 100% server issue. If you use gps jinni you'll see that it takes tooooo much time to fetch the list of satellites. Unfortunately, it seems that until it gets the list of satelites from the internet, it will not use the gps signal. So you either disable AGPS or change the server to google's23:06
V13meaning: change "location server" to
V13or disable "network positioning"23:08
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bnhwHi, I'm developing a small application using pygame for the N900 and I'm wondering about whether or not I need to disable compositing manually. I've come across a flag which needs to be set for OpenGL ES apps, but nothing about SDL or python.23:11
lcukbnhw, did you just try it?23:11
lcukwith and without23:11
bnhwI'm not sure how to disable it in python.23:11
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lcukdoes it run well in python without messing?23:13
bnhwNo, it doesn't.23:13
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bnhwHang on, I might have found something about using Xatom23:14
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* mgedmin gets bogged down in Debian packaging23:15
jo-erlendis PySide stable and does it have good documentation available? I'd like to start writing applications for maemo, n900 and similar devices. PySide seems like the best place to start?23:16
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RST38hAnyone knows if mplayer in Extras is optified?23:16
mgedminthat would be a nice addition to
mgedminlist all files (and sizes) in the debs, assign to filesystems, sum, present to the user23:17
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: notes -
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MohammadAGRST38h, yes it's optified23:18
RST38hcoooool =)23:18
* mgedmin cries23:18
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* pronto patpat mgedmin on the head23:20
mgedminwhy is Python packaging soo hard?23:20
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RST38hBecause you are supposed to program in a real language!23:21
* RST38h explodes in diabolic laughter23:22
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* mgedmin targets an ICMB to RST38h's location23:24
* MohammadAG attaches a nuclear warhead to it23:24
SpeedEvilSurely you attach nucular warheads to ICMBs?23:24
* mgedmin is feeling dyslexic today23:25
SpeedEvilcareful when typing coordinates.23:25
mgedmingah, I don't even remember that I finally gave a version number to gtimelog23:26
cehteh.. back to ext3 from ext4 ... the external kernel is too much pita23:26
* MohammadAG googles ICMB23:26
* mgedmin was calling his package version 0.0+svn88+bzr14523:26
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, yeah, why not? :P23:26
DocScrutinizer51cehteh: :-/23:27
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dracflamloc anyone want to port this to maemo? =P23:28
dracflamlocshould be pretty easy23:28
cehtehDocScrutinizer: ext3 is actually good enough .. while ext4 was quite much better... i now see that while rsyncing data gain23:28
dracflamloci got the linux build workin23:28
cehtehext4 was double as fast23:29
lcukRST38h, which os do those icbms use?23:29
lcukactually i should be asking mgedmin23:29
mgedminyou'd better tell me where to install .desktop files23:30
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RST38hlcuk: No idea23:33
lcukmgedmin, /usr/share/applications/hildon/*.desktop23:33
RST38hlcuk: Whatever little idea I have, is probably unsafe to disclose here anyway.23:33
lcukjust send a link to wikidot23:33
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mgedminso, what magic am I missing in my .desktop...?  the app menu doesn't show my icon23:36
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mgedminnot that I have an icon, actually, hm23:36
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mgedminand closing the window doesn't exit the app23:37
mgedminsomething about wmclass?23:37
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mgedminwhere should I put my 48x48 icon?23:40
mgedminon the filesystem23:40
mgedmingpodder ships four files called gpodder.png23:40
mgedmindo I need to scale the icon down to 40x40?23:41
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mgedminboth problems not solved :23:43
mgedminoh, hey, I'm not shipping the desktop and icon at all23:44
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mgedmindebhelper! cdbs! curse you all!23:46
Stskeepsrpm ftw!23:47
RST38hWhy use puny attempts at imitating pkg_add, when you can use the real thing/23:49
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mgedminokay, I give up23:50
mgedminno gtimelog for maemo23:50
pupnik_i wish the pandora guys were part of our sphere23:50
Ilamuser_my phone appears to be bricked and I just wanted to check that no-one else knows how to fix this problem before sending it back to Nokia. The phone has many strange issues (like not wanting to charge) so I wanted to reflash the firmware. When I restart the phone by plugging in the USB cable, the usb doesn't come up as on normal phones, and I can't connect to it with the flasher utility. I have successfully reflashed other phones, and it appears to me that23:53
Ilamuser_the phone can't go into a firmware update mode. Has anyone seen the problem before?23:53
pupnik_did you turn it off before connecting?23:54
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infobotmethinks flashing is
StskeepsIlamuser_: check that page23:55
Stskeepsif it doesn't want to charge, USB port may be broken23:55
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Ilamuser_pupnik: yes I did turn it off.23:56
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Ilamuser_Stskeeps: I have used the instructions on that page before, but it relies on geting to a firmware-update mode which my phone won't do.23:58
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cehtehIlamuser_: what exactly does it do when you turn it on?23:59
Ian--Ilamuser_: did you remove the battery and then charge it?23:59
StskeepsIlamuser_: is it a N900?23:59
Ilamuser_my best guess is that either the firmware is corrupted, or the USB charging-hardware is damaged. A major symptom is that the phone wasn't always charging normally23:59

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