| mgedmin | it is gripping, yes | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| mgedmin | then again I finished Terry Goodkind's _Sword of Truth_ series, despite increasing temptation to throw books at walls | 00:00 |
| mgedmin | what helped me was that I had no clue about US politics or libertarianism back when I was reading it | 00:00 |
| lcuk | i think thats the same for most us government people ;) | 00:01 |
| * javispedro files a bug that's already fixed in Harmattan | 00:01 | |
| SpeedEvil | Richard K Morgan - 'Altered Carbon'. Think the stainless steel rat + nanotech + bond + explosions. | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Very awesome. | 00:01 |
| mgedmin | ooh, Morgan is fun | 00:01 |
| lcuk | javispedro, mm whats dat | 00:01 |
| mgedmin | except that I hated _Market Forces_ | 00:01 |
| javispedro | lcuk: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9316 , part of the albumart crazyness stuff I was commenting previously | 00:02 |
| povbot | Bug 9316: Tracker doesn't run album art heuristics for non-mp3 audio files | 00:02 |
| mgedmin | loved all his other books | 00:02 |
| t-tan | hi, does anybody know how to boot maemo from SD card? | 00:02 |
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| mgedmin | t-tan, there used to be a wiki page describing that | 00:02 |
| mgedmin | I never tried it myself | 00:02 |
| Flandry | sounds awesome | 00:02 |
| mgedmin | I think you have to install bootmenu | 00:02 |
| Flandry | @speedevil | 00:03 |
| t-tan | i followed http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Bootmenu boot it always reboots... | 00:03 |
| mgedmin | ah :( | 00:03 |
| MohammadAG | t-tan, did u disable the watchdog? | 00:04 |
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| t-tan | MohammadAG: good idea! I should do that | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | John Ringo is very good for explosions and high-tech soldiery. | 00:04 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 00:04 |
| Arif_ | where can I buy an N900 stylus | 00:05 |
| MohammadAG | a 100 bucks and I'll send mine to you | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Arif_: ebay | 00:05 |
| MohammadAG | with free shipping | 00:05 |
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| RST38h | "Sex, violence, destruction of property" - three qualities of good sf according to Heinlein | 00:05 |
| javispedro | genius. | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: ringo tends to tick all those boxes. Not usually at the same time though. | 00:06 |
| * Arif_ sends MohammadAG Zimbabwean 100$ | 00:06 | |
| MohammadAG | lol | 00:06 |
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| * RST38h stopped reading this kind of stuff long time ago =( | 00:06 | |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 | 00:07 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 00:07 |
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| MohammadAG | they sell 3 packs | 00:07 |
| MohammadAG | (1, or 2/3 packs) | 00:08 |
| Arif_ | what weird language is that | 00:08 |
| Arif_ | xD | 00:08 |
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| jaska | the language of mordor | 00:08 |
| Arif_ | I hope they accept paypal | 00:09 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't just paypal into mordor. | 00:09 |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, finnish :) | 00:09 |
| RST38h | you can't? | 00:09 |
| Flandry | Ah, so it *is* the language of Mordor | 00:09 |
| javispedro | mordor finnish | 00:09 |
| Arif_ | a "buy" button would be nice | 00:10 |
| Arif_ | :O | 00:10 |
| Flandry | Mordor: land of of the midnight sun and idyllic lakes | 00:10 |
| Arif_ | oh it's just hidden | 00:10 |
| Arif_ | and yay | 00:10 |
| Arif_ | paypal | 00:10 |
| mgedmin | Arif_, they do accept paypal! http://www.klc.fi/fin/ohje-en.php/ | 00:10 |
| colonelqubit | I'm trying to convince myself that $500 for a phone isn't too ludicrous. Dell has the n900 for $480 w/free ship. Any cheaper prices out there? | 00:10 |
| mgedmin | colonelqubit, please tell me they ship overseas ;) | 00:11 |
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| Flandry | Call it a mobile computer and it will be easier to convince yourself ;) | 00:11 |
| Arif_ | they're €600 here | 00:11 |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, http://www.klc.fi/fin/ohje-en.php/ | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | And remember to count insurance. | 00:11 |
| mgedmin | well, 500 GBP | 00:11 |
| colonelqubit | SpeedEvil: "Dear Sauron, your Paypal account has been temporarily suspended for inappropriate activity, including taking a hit out on two little people. Sincerely, The PayPal Team" | 00:12 |
| Arif_ | a hit ? | 00:12 |
| * mgedmin found a 515 EUR deal for a N900 locally | 00:12 | |
| * RST38h calls his "my precioussss" | 00:12 | |
| colonelqubit | Arif: rather, a contract | 00:12 |
| mgedmin | accidentally eating them or something, I suppose | 00:12 |
| * javispedro has been calling his own "my preciousssss" for quite a while today, after 26 days of it being away. | 00:13 | |
| * Arif_ orders 3 styli | 00:13 | |
| mgedmin | "Dear Sauron, your order for the one ring has been delayed." | 00:13 |
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| RST38h | javis: ah how have you survived? | 00:13 |
| * Arif_ calls his N900 a toy :D | 00:13 | |
| javispedro | RST38h: n810, basically. | 00:13 |
| * mgedmin calls his N900 his "nokia", and his 6600 slide his "phone" | 00:13 | |
| mgedmin | technically they're both Nokia phones | 00:14 |
| RST38h | ah right | 00:14 |
| * Arif_ has the original 6600 | 00:14 | |
| RST38h | well, n900 is "neopadlog" as far as network names are concerned | 00:14 |
| * mgedmin is insufficiently inventive and calls his mg-n900-2.local | 00:14 | |
| colonelqubit | SpeedEvil: Insurance for a $500, what was it?, ah yes, "mobile computer" might not be a bad idea, but it isn't cheap. 1 year is $64. | 00:14 |
| SpeedEvil | colonelqubit: no, it's not. | 00:15 |
| SpeedEvil | But neither is finding you sat on it, and have to replace it. | 00:15 |
| Arif_ | I refer to mine as the "en dokuzyüz" too :P | 00:15 |
| colonelqubit | SpeedEvil: fair 'nuff | 00:15 |
| * mgedmin 's had a little accident with a teapot | 00:15 | |
| SpeedEvil | I figure that sitting on it has a rather higher percentage than 10% | 00:15 |
| Arif_ | mgedmin it didn't like tea? | 00:15 |
| javispedro | how often do you plan to sit on it? | 00:16 |
| mgedmin | Arif_, it survived unscathed, thankfully | 00:16 |
| javispedro | it all depends on that answer. | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I sat on my last two laptops. | 00:16 |
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| Arif_ | I want a stylus insureance | 00:16 |
| mgedmin | javispedro, "expect" would be more accurate than "plan" | 00:16 |
| Arif_ | I'll lose mine every 2 weeks | 00:16 |
| Arif_ | :D | 00:16 |
| * javispedro 's n900 hasn't made any high jump yet. | 00:17 | |
| Arif_ | mine flew into a girls lap once :D | 00:17 |
| javispedro | ah, my preciousss manually made albumart with patched meta tracker. | 00:17 |
| colonelqubit | at risk of talking myself out of buying an n900, does anyone have an idea of how soon we'll see cheaper maemo/meego phones on the market? | 00:17 |
| Arif_ | apparently it's not a good idea having it dangle around your neck in a moving bus | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I have real doubts you'll see a cheaper maemo phone this year | 00:18 |
| Arif_ | -.- | 00:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Arif_: Well - if it introduces you to hot girls... | 00:18 |
| colonelqubit | Though the geek factor is nice, I don't really *need* two cameras on my phone, for example... :P | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | colonelqubit: the front camera will cost nokia under a dollar | 00:18 |
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| cehteh | most high end phones have two cams .. and the front cam is a 50 pence thing, that doesnt add much to the cost | 00:19 |
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| RST38h | 50 pences is a lot when it comes to mass producing electronics | 00:19 |
| Arif_ | 50 cent? | 00:19 |
| Arif_ | I doubt it costs nokia 3 cents | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | it's more than that | 00:20 |
| colonelqubit | I'm always suspicious of the cameras in cell phones, what with them having to squeeze into such a thin form factor | 00:20 |
| javispedro | and the ir emitter must be so cheap they actually pay nokia for each shipped unit with one | 00:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | the rear cam is of the order of $25 | 00:20 |
| cehteh | well most other components are more expensive .. gps, touchscreen, display, slider mechanism | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | the GPS is probably under $5 | 00:20 |
| Arif_ | I doubt the whole phone is above $100 | 00:20 |
| cehteh | maybe not sure | 00:20 |
| Arif_ | to produce :D | 00:21 |
| RST38h | cehteh: two main articles are the media processor and the display | 00:21 |
| cehteh | a lot flash storage also adds up | 00:21 |
| RST38h | cehteh: yea, the RAM/ROM chip is probably the next on the BOM | 00:21 |
| colonelqubit | cehteh: yes, I was going to suspect that the flash storage and screen were $$, beyond initial development outlay | 00:21 |
| cehteh | and my guess will be that the n900 successor may be disappointing for geeks | 00:21 |
| cehteh | more WAF less features | 00:22 |
| Arif_ | as long as it has better speakers | 00:22 |
| Arif_ | >:) | 00:22 |
| cehteh | the speakers are not *that* bad | 00:22 |
| Flandry | I think they're great | 00:22 |
| SpeedEvil | screen is only $35 to replace. | 00:22 |
| cehteh | well great is something else :P | 00:22 |
| Arif_ | Flandry, no | 00:23 |
| SpeedEvil | (and another $30 for the touchscreen) | 00:23 |
| Arif_ | unless you come from the eyephone | 00:23 |
| Flandry | we're talking something that fits in a hand | 00:23 |
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| cehteh | Arif_: i opt for a subwoofer you can plug into the headphone jack .. that would fix it | 00:23 |
| Arif_ | Flandry, may I introduce you to the Nokia 5800, 6233, and N95 (8GB) | 00:23 |
| Arif_ | they're all smaller than the N900! | 00:23 |
| cehteh | i mean with decent support. .. that the headphone jack then really carries only bass signal | 00:24 |
| sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 | 00:24 |
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| RST38h | N95 is a freaking brick | 00:24 |
| Flandry | i don't really know those but the comparisons suggested the N95 is similar in sound quality | 00:24 |
| javispedro | I hate how each device I've had basically has more background noise than the previous one. | 00:24 |
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| javispedro | s/noise/hissss | 00:24 |
| cehteh | anyways .. i am mostly hearing with headphones so i dont really care | 00:24 |
| RST38h | javis: Hey I have got a doorbell and it has no background noise | 00:24 |
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| Flandry | in any case it's much batter than my previous featurephone, and that one had great speakers for its time by the reviews | 00:24 |
| Arif_ | you can't hear speech from the N900 speakers | 00:25 |
| Arif_ | when outside xD | 00:25 |
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| Flandry | really? | 00:25 |
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| Arif_ | well, hardly | 00:25 |
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| Flandry | I am talking about speakerphone mode | 00:26 |
| cehteh | double as long battery time would be on my list, yes | 00:26 |
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| Arif_ | well it's nearly impossible to watch a movie/listen to radio on the N900 speakers | 00:26 |
| Arif_ | ;p | 00:26 |
| Flandry | still haven't gotten used to holding my PDA to my face :D | 00:26 |
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| Flandry | who uses speakers for the radio? | 00:27 |
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| javispedro | they're Ok | 00:27 |
| Arif_ | so you can hear your surrounding | 00:27 |
| Arif_ | when doing something | 00:27 |
| Arif_ | and leave the phone somewhere in the middle | 00:27 |
| Flandry | ah | 00:27 |
| Arif_ | I want to walk 3 steps away from it :) | 00:27 |
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| colonelqubit | does the FM transmitter work well? | 00:28 |
| Arif_ | yes | 00:28 |
| Arif_ | for me it does | 00:28 |
| Flandry | well i wouldn't expect to be able to set a phone down and hear it from somewhere elsare for | 00:28 |
| colonelqubit | I've never had a phone or mp3 player with the feature, but it sounds like a slick idea | 00:28 |
| Arif_ | Flandry, aw | 00:28 |
| Arif_ | I was used to it with my older phone | 00:29 |
| Arif_ | maybe I'm just spoilt :) | 00:29 |
| Flandry | maybe :) | 00:29 |
| Arif_ | colonelqubit, it hisses somewhat but that's fixed with FMBoost | 00:29 |
| colonelqubit | Arif_: ah, okay | 00:29 |
| sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 | 00:29 |
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| Arif_ | and you even get the artist/album/title if your radio has RDS :D | 00:29 |
| colonelqubit | nice | 00:29 |
| Flandry | Well i came on to ask about the maintainer for poppler qt and got sucked into this blackhole of time | 00:29 |
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| Flandry | gotta get work done, ttyl :) | 00:29 |
| Arif_ | lol | 00:29 |
| Arif_ | at 23:30 on a Saturday night? | 00:30 |
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| Flandry | only 17:30 here; the night is young | 00:30 |
| Arif_ | living in the past are you :P | 00:31 |
| Flandry | such is the life (sic) of a phd candidate :P | 00:31 |
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| sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 | 00:31 |
| sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 | 00:31 |
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| Arif_ | lol | 00:31 |
| Arif_ | I SO WANT TO CLICK THAT | 00:32 |
| nid0 | way ahead of you! | 00:32 |
| Arif_ | o rly | 00:32 |
| nid0 | i earnt him a euro towards a bullshit probably nonexistant prize, it seems | 00:33 |
| Arif_ | BUT BUT | 00:33 |
| Arif_ | the nick was sarah! | 00:33 |
| Arif_ | it must be a girl! | 00:33 |
| nid0 | clearly a girl then | 00:33 |
| * Arif_ transmits some Turkish music to nid0's radio | 00:34 | |
| * nid0 turns dream theater back up | 00:34 | |
| Arif_ | xD | 00:34 |
| * Arif_ hits nid0 over the head with his saz | 00:35 | |
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| Arif_ | awww | 00:40 |
| Arif_ | N900 is not getting free Ovi | 00:40 |
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| Arif_ | .....maps | 00:41 |
| cehteh | who needs that with osm.. | 00:41 |
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| Arif_ | dunno | 00:41 |
| Arif_ | I don't use navigation :D | 00:41 |
| Arif_ | I want bug 9020 fixed that's all :D | 00:42 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9020 Media player crashes when trying to search in ''All songs'' | 00:42 |
| Arif_ | go away | 00:42 |
| Arif_ | stupid bot :( | 00:42 |
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| cehteh | i want the cam able to write to no fat filesystems | 00:43 |
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| Arif_ | hmm | 00:44 |
| Arif_ | but non fat filesystem can't be mounted on wind00z | 00:44 |
| cehteh | i dont care | 00:44 |
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| Arif_ | but everyone loves windows ! ;P | 00:44 |
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| cehteh | i dont say everyone should reformat | 00:45 |
| Arif_ | but really that should be fixed too yes | 00:46 |
| cehteh | but that the cam only stores on fat is stupid | 00:46 |
| Arif_ | sounds like a lame limitation to me =} | 00:46 |
| cehteh | very likely artifical | 00:46 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 00:47 |
| Arif_ | mp3tag has a new version apparently! | 00:47 |
| cehteh | may be it should be the other way around and reject ubifs | 00:47 |
| Arif_ | OH WELL | 00:48 |
| Arif_ | oh well* | 00:48 |
| cehteh | i'll look int this sometime next | 00:48 |
| Arif_ | you never know what Nokia's upto :D | 00:48 |
| cehteh | i dont care | 00:50 |
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| colonelqubit | Arif_: You can mount ext2/ext3 on windows | 00:57 |
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| jacekowski | not really | 00:57 |
| Arif_ | wh ywould I want to :p | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | it's only ext2 that you can mount | 00:57 |
| Arif_ | I don't have any media in that format O.o | 00:57 |
| colonelqubit | Arif_: ext2fsdhttp://www.ext2fsd.com/ | 00:57 |
| jacekowski | and there is no drivers for it bultin | 00:57 |
| colonelqubit | oh, it's not built-in, but that way you don't have to format all of your media as FAT32 | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | colonelqubit: it fucks up filesystem more often than it doesn't | 00:58 |
| Arif_ | I format mine as NTFS :P | 00:58 |
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| colonelqubit | I've had good experiences w/it | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | colonelqubit: try mounting unclean FS with it | 00:58 |
| nid0 | home users arent going to have to want to install extra shit on windows to just make their n900 plug in and show up | 00:58 |
| colonelqubit | that can work, too | 00:58 |
| colonelqubit | fair 'nuff | 00:59 |
| Arif_ | home users don't know what a filesystem or driver is | 00:59 |
| Arif_ | :) | 00:59 |
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| nid0 | exactly, they want to just plug it in and have it work | 00:59 |
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| * Arif_ is a home user =} | 01:00 | |
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| cehteh | anyways .. anyone knows/investigates how the camera takes pictures and saves them? | 01:01 |
| colonelqubit | the 800lb Windows juggernaut wins again. So sad | 01:01 |
| jacekowski | colonelqubit: it's about simplicity | 01:01 |
| jacekowski | colonelqubit: and fat32 is much simpler fs btw. | 01:01 |
| cehteh | there is the omapcamd and the camera-ui ... | 01:01 |
| jacekowski | colonelqubit: you can read and write it using 8bit uC | 01:01 |
| Arif_ | if everyone was using ext2 that one'd "win" | 01:01 |
| colonelqubit | jacekowski: too bad Microsoft likes to sue people for using fat32 | 01:02 |
| nid0 | clearly ntfs is the way to go tbh!:( | 01:02 |
| cehteh | i wonder if nokia has licensed it :P | 01:02 |
| Arif_ | I wonder what happens if I format the 27GB to NTFS | 01:03 |
| cehteh | cam prolly cant write to ntfs either | 01:04 |
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| nid0 | if you format the mmc to ntfs | 01:04 |
| nid0 | the n900 will probably say "fuck that" | 01:04 |
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| Arif_ | the media player sesm to say that a lot :P | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | as somebody said | 01:05 |
| jacekowski | nokia has a list of patents they don't give a shit about | 01:05 |
| Arif_ | apparently Apple didn't read that list ;( | 01:05 |
| * cehteh needs symlinks on the filesystem .. fat doesnt support symlinks .. grr | 01:05 | |
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| cehteh | maybe i reformat the internal storage to ext3 or ext4 and use fat on the uSD | 01:06 |
| Arif_ | you should! | 01:07 |
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| ali1234 | does anyone know why the camera app needs fat? | 01:08 |
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| t_s_o | ugh, seems like the big cultural change on the forum is the "me wants working feature x, now!" vs "hmm, could be nice if it could do x", and the willingness to report bugs in a factual, calm way... | 01:08 |
| user__ | hi | 01:08 |
| t_s_o | or lack of latter, that is... | 01:09 |
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| cehteh | t_s_o: no wonder | 01:09 |
| t_s_o | cehteh? | 01:09 |
| cehteh | with the current roller-coaster ride, nokia treats the community | 01:09 |
| pupnik | "The legacy that we leave on this earth comes down to the principles by which we lived. It is the ideas we hold, and the way we've pursued them that are the source of our immortality." - Lew Rockwell | 01:09 |
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| cehteh | and a lot more end-users and not geeks buying the device now too | 01:10 |
| Arif_ | meh | 01:10 |
| Arif_ | everyone on the forum is saying that you should've researched before buying it | 01:10 |
| Arif_ | which is stupid ;P | 01:10 |
| t_s_o | heh, yep, i do wonder how many of the N900 users are teens with dads credit card... | 01:10 |
| cehteh | yeah .. the more people buy now, the better | 01:10 |
| Arif_ | hey, I'm a teen with my own money | 01:11 |
| Arif_ | ;( | 01:11 |
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| cehteh | well .. if all developers have a n900 they prolly dont want the successor model | 01:11 |
| ab3339 | u should v researched than :) | 01:12 |
| cehteh | so nokia should be forced to provide meego for the n900 too, otherwise they dry out of community developers | 01:12 |
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| pupnik | there is an interesting point cehteh | 01:12 |
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| cehteh | and comparing mamemo.org vs ovi store repos you clearly see where the hammer hangs | 01:12 |
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| Arif_ | ovi store? | 01:12 |
| Arif_ | what store :P | 01:12 |
| cehteh | pupnik: i always saied that .. kids: code for the device you own, dont care about the rest | 01:13 |
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| t_s_o | cehteh: i guess thats why nokia was handing out free devices for devs | 01:13 |
| t_s_o | tho that discount program got fumbled... | 01:14 |
| cehteh | t_s_o: well i dont know how big the return (in sense of work done) was | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG | anyone using Vagulume? | 01:14 |
| t_s_o | to i guess the fumble came from a "missunderstanding" between "old" nokia and "new" nokia | 01:14 |
| t_s_o | tho | 01:14 |
| cehteh | there where likely 1000 devices handed out .. but possibly only a few of the owners do really develop apps on it | 01:15 |
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| t_s_o | cehteh: it seemed to shift the focus away from the N8x0 at least | 01:15 |
| cehteh | and there are many many more devs who had already to buy a device | 01:15 |
| cehteh | and consider my very little contribution to xchat .. which took me about a workday to do, i i had coded on a freelance base that work would almost equal a n900 .. | 01:16 |
| cehteh | (ok forget about taxes) | 01:16 |
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| MiXu- | ouch... Maemo SDK virtual image comes with 512MB of ram by default :D | 01:17 |
| MiXu- | I was wondering why it was so damn slow | 01:17 |
| cehteh | .. thats why i need symlinks on the device .. to install the sdk there in a chroot | 01:18 |
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| pupnik | anyone here put a compiler on N900? | 01:18 |
| MiXu- | I use my N900 as my main phone. I'll keep my dev stuff far away from it until it's "ready for testing". :) | 01:18 |
| cehteh | you cant yet .. at least not easily | 01:19 |
| cehteh | the devel/sdk packages are not optified | 01:19 |
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| cehteh | but you need some decent filesystem space to put it on it | 01:19 |
| ali1234 | create a loopback ext2 image on the fat partition, mount, install chroot | 01:19 |
| villager | cehteh: my cyborgeye app is capable of taking pictures much like camera-ui, though that's not my app's purpose, I just threw some code in for fun | 01:19 |
| pupnik | :( cant i trick packages into installing into mmc somehow cehteh ? | 01:20 |
| cehteh | and symlinks .. | 01:20 |
| cehteh | pupnik: my plan is to reformat some space to ext3 or ext4 and doing a chroot there | 01:20 |
| pupnik | ty ali1234 guess a chroot is the way | 01:20 |
| cehteh | completely isolating it from the rest of the device | 01:20 |
| villager | cehteh: it'd be pretty easy to use nokia's gstreamer stuff to make a camera-ui clone | 01:21 |
| cehteh | yeah loopback ext2 or fuseext2 may work too | 01:21 |
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| cehteh | villager: i dont want a clone .. and who here figured out that its really hard to access some special features like whitebalance focus and stuff? | 01:21 |
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| villager | cehteh: it's easy with the nokia's gstreamer stuff, hard without | 01:22 |
| cehteh | villager: i am thinking about figuring out how it writes stuff to the disk and hack a LD_PRELOAD in which cheats it pretending anything is a FAT | 01:22 |
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| ali1234 | cehteh: can you strace the camera app to see why it fails? | 01:23 |
| javispedro | cehteh: optifying a package is trivial | 01:23 |
| javispedro | unless it's not, of course. | 01:23 |
| villager | cehteh: I unfortunately found out that if I used the binary blob from nokia, I could no longer control exposure manually, the automatic stuff kept overriding it... oh well | 01:23 |
| cehteh | ali1234: sure ... but not completely trivial and i had no time/success yet | 01:23 |
| cehteh | the camera is a daemon and a gui ... | 01:23 |
| cehteh | villager: yeah you straced it already or? | 01:23 |
| javispedro | iirc the camera FAT problem was solved in tmo | 01:24 |
| cehteh | dont you think the ld_preload would be the simplest hack and valuable for anyone? | 01:24 |
| cehteh | javispedro: how? link? | 01:24 |
| villager | cehteh: yes... it calls private ioctls in the kernel, and the kernel relays the request to the userspace daemon | 01:24 |
| cehteh | does the daemon write to /tmp and then some spool copies it over or does the daemon write it to the device? | 01:25 |
| villager | the daemon isn't responsible for disk i/o | 01:25 |
| cehteh | i noticed that the daemon has a optarg pointing to /tmp | 01:25 |
| cehteh | 766 root 14972 S /usr/sbin/omap3camd -d /dev/video0 -f /tmp/omap3camd0 | 01:26 |
| javispedro | cehteh: "This seems like the best solution to me. Perhaps now that the camera is working with non FAT partitions the loopback file is not necessary." http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=499825&postcount=72 | 01:26 |
| javispedro | but I didn't found the actual solution. | 01:26 |
| javispedro | my guess -- some case sensitiveness issue. | 01:26 |
| villager | cehteh: that's probably a unix socket or something | 01:27 |
| villager | possibly the way the daemon communicates with the kernel | 01:27 |
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| javispedro | or a permission issue. I doubt the camera app checks the target filesystem. | 01:28 |
| cehteh | strangely i never see anything existing there | 01:28 |
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| villager | cehteh: the file is probably unlinked as soon as the socket is connected | 01:29 |
| cehteh | yeah | 01:29 |
| villager | cehteh: do you really have issues with camera-ui and fat? I thought I read that it's a permission issue, not a filesystem issue? | 01:29 |
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| cehteh | i have no issues with the camera ui .. but i need a better (unix) filesystem | 01:30 |
| cehteh | needing symlinks | 01:30 |
| cehteh | well and performance and stability .. and recoverability ... | 01:30 |
| cehteh | javispedro: yes all 'workarounds' i seen involve keeping a fat filesystem .. isnt that crap!? | 01:31 |
| mgedmin | what is that thing about camera and fat anyway? | 01:32 |
| mgedmin | is there a bug? | 01:32 |
| javispedro | cehteh: not IMO, but well. | 01:32 |
| cehteh | mgedmin: nobody knows | 01:32 |
| javispedro | cehteh: i'm pretty sure that if he said it's fixed, then it's fixed without a fat partition anywhere. | 01:32 |
| cehteh | some say its a feature preventing accidental writes to the rootfs when the mmc is unmounted | 01:33 |
| cehteh | javispedro: show me how/where please .. | 01:33 |
| mgedmin | ah! | 01:33 |
| mgedmin | makes sense | 01:33 |
| ali1234 | that would make sense. usb mass storage mode screws us again | 01:33 |
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| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=479171#post479171 | 01:33 |
| mgedmin | let me guess, the camera app is closed source? | 01:33 |
| cehteh | yes | 01:34 |
| javispedro | see above post. | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | It's so awesome, it's gotta be closed! | 01:34 |
| mgedmin | oh, a permissions issue | 01:34 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 01:34 | |
| javispedro | as I though. | 01:34 |
| mgedmin | malice, incompetence, etc. | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | claiming that the camera has a bug | 01:34 |
| javispedro | and they spent nearly 5 pages trying to guess what was happening. | 01:34 |
| jacekowski | everything can be reversed | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | for a situation which it explicitly doesn't support | 01:34 |
| cehteh | javispedro: cool | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | is insane | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | would you guys please reprogram your 'bug' reporters? | 01:35 |
| timeless_mbp | as fat doesn't support ownership | 01:35 |
| timeless_mbp | it hardly makes sense for the camera app to try to create a folder with a specific owner... | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: (feature) MEH | 01:35 |
| javispedro | every bug is "a situation the program doesn't explicit support". now the question is "was the program expected to support it?" | 01:35 |
| cehteh | hehe . 'some say' .. | 01:35 |
| mgedmin | it's Not Right | 01:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | javispedro: it's very clear that a non fat partition was *not* a supported configuration | 01:36 |
| cehteh | timeless_mbp: well that pretty well explains why it doesnt work and how it can be fixed | 01:36 |
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| * cehteh going to reformat | 01:36 | |
| * javispedro 's happy with FAT | 01:37 | |
| timeless_mbp | it seems odd to me that 'camera' would be able to create a folder owned by root | 01:37 |
| * timeless_mbp didn't think camera ran as root | 01:37 | |
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| timeless_mbp | camera is running as user | 01:37 |
| mgedmin | timeless_mbp, see, this is why I want my computers to run open-source software, because a trivially-supportable combination of features gets rejected as "NOTABUG according to The Holy Spec" | 01:37 |
| cehteh | the camera daemon does | 01:37 |
| ali1234 | the weird daemon thing might do it | 01:37 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: does it have a name? | 01:38 |
| cehteh | 766 root 14972 S /usr/sbin/omap3camd -d /dev/video0 | 01:38 |
| timeless_mbp | ps doesn't find wierd-camera-daemon | 01:38 |
| villager | it'd surprise me if the daemon did it | 01:38 |
| mgedmin | fixing the thing in an open-source project would take less energy than all this arguing about what is a bug and what isn't | 01:38 |
| ali1234 | +1 | 01:38 |
| Arif_ | build your own open source phone :P | 01:38 |
| javispedro | I doubt the daemon does the write | 01:38 |
| timeless_mbp | build your own open source camera | 01:38 |
| villager | however, camera-ui is autostarted by a root process, perhaps it happens before the camera-ui drops permissions | 01:38 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: surely strace could tell you quickly? | 01:39 |
| javispedro | timeless: strings told me it even faster | 01:39 |
| javispedro | s/it/ | 01:39 |
| timeless_mbp | what did it say? | 01:39 |
| javispedro | no DCIM, MYDOCS, nor link to hildon-fm | 01:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~mgedmin++ | 01:40 |
| cehteh | ok as soon maemeo mapper finished with the map downloading i make a backup and reformat | 01:40 |
| javispedro | camera-ui contains both mydocs and dcim strings. | 01:41 |
| cehteh | lets try this extended kernel thing :) | 01:41 |
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| cehteh | going ext4 .. | 01:41 |
| villager | timeless_mbp: camera-ui is started at boot by the dsme subsystem, which runs as root... it's possible that the camera-ui doesn't change uid to user immediately, but mkdirs a bit first, I suppose | 01:41 |
| timeless_mbp | villager: i'll buy that | 01:42 |
| ali1234 | so camera-ui goes off making directories and who knows what else before dropping privileges that sounds like a bug to me | 01:42 |
| cehteh | does anyone of you know whats the underlying blocksize of the emmc and uSD? | 01:42 |
| ali1234 | but it is also possible the camera-ui just asks the daemon to make the directory | 01:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | cehteh: ~128K I think | 01:43 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: based on some preliminary benchmarks | 01:43 |
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| cehteh | eww ... to big to use as filesystem blocksize .. i hoped for 16k or 32k | 01:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | I haven't worked it out properly though. | 01:44 |
| cehteh | well such big blocks are reasonable for flash | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 01:44 |
| cehteh | 4k blocks are the biggiest for ext | 01:45 |
| javispedro | stripe-width to the rescue I guess. | 01:45 |
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| cehteh | yes my thinking | 01:46 |
| cehteh | whats the 'fragment' size for? | 01:46 |
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| villager | ali1234: after having written my own app using the nokia camera framework, I highly doubt it's the daemon's responsibility to write the files, the gstreamer plugin handles everything needed to transfer the photo to the user process, and lets it deal with storing it to disk or whatever | 01:46 |
| nid0 | ok so dumb question, what are sane settings within maemo mapper to get it to predownload a realistic amount of map data? | 01:46 |
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| villager | ali1234: so my guess is that it's a bug in camera-ui making directories before dropping privileges | 01:47 |
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| cehteh | nid0: dont .. i am sucking and the servers are damn slow :P | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: where you need to go, to the level you need it to. | 01:47 |
| nid0 | just ticked it to download me zoom levels 1-4 of google maps and it's asked me to confirm the download of (and i quote) 1041882136 maps | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | And no more. | 01:47 |
| nid0 | seems a little off to me..? | 01:47 |
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| * DocScrutinizer points to cam frontend "sorage location" setting | 01:47 | |
| SpeedEvil | 1-4? | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | sTorage | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | 1-4 should be I think... | 01:48 |
| cehteh | well consider that every increased (lower) level quadruples the data | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | 256 tiles on the 4th level | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | nid0: maybe it's backwards, and 1-4 is the highest zoom? | 01:48 |
| nid0 | it doesnt quite break down exactly how much data is involved in the download of that 1.04 billion maps though.. | 01:48 |
| nid0 | its 4 of the most detailed, 0 is most detailed, 20 is like the whole planet | 01:48 |
| cehteh | nid0: i am at 6GB downloaded now or so :) | 01:48 |
| nid0 | all i want is just a reasonably accurate map of the uk, basically :< | 01:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | binary maps use _LOTS_ of space | 01:49 |
| nid0 | yeah no kidding | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | consider a bit per meter. | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | meter square | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | that's over 100km*100km 10^10 bits. | 01:49 |
| cehteh | level 6 or so should enogh .. open maep .. zoom full in .. | 01:49 |
| cehteh | that 0 | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | or a gigabyte | 01:49 |
| cehteh | and then zoom out and count 1 2 3 ... | 01:50 |
| nid0 | am i right in thinking that the default lat/long in the manage maps section is the area you're currently actually looking at on the map? | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | and that zoom level may not be enough for navigating in small streets | 01:51 |
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| cehteh | yes (i hope so) | 01:51 |
| * cehteh just does some insane downloading | 01:51 | |
| SpeedEvil | Just remember you can't legally cache google tiles. | 01:51 |
| cehteh | about 100km around where i live | 01:51 |
| nid0 | screw legally, i just want a working nav suite | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | And also that if you're gonna hammer the OSM servers be moderate. | 01:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | Tehy are almost maxing out their 100mb upstream at times | 01:52 |
| * cehteh has some squid hacks for OSM | 01:52 | |
| SpeedEvil | And persistant downloaders will get banned. | 01:52 |
| nid0 | ..yeah zoom level right down to 0 does seem a little excessive for navigation | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Do not use more than a couple of threads to download. | 01:52 |
| javispedro | who downloads non vectorial data from osm? | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: many apps | 01:52 |
| cehteh | my squid will cache anything for 5 months or more .. no matter what expire time was attached there | 01:52 |
| cehteh | (only for osm tiles) | 01:52 |
| cehteh | making osm faster than google maps at home :) | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: so maybe the 0-length-tiles issue in tango isn't exactly packet loss of my gprs? | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: for OSM | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: well - I doubt it - they aren't that flooded | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | it's just if everyone downloads it all... | 01:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yeah. Also tago map DL via USB seems to work fine | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (FR that is) | 01:55 |
| * cehteh wonders about bitmap maps vs vector maps .. bitmap cost a shitload of space, but prolly easier to decompress and more battery friendly than rendering vectors | 01:56 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: btw the suggested workaround to delete all length-0 tiles in cache is another good example why messybox *SUCKS* and you'll eventually want to get the real thing | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | the real find utility in this case | 02:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 02:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: alas I realized my suggestion doesn't pan out too good, as tangogps caches some info internally, so even deleting those crippled tiles takes efefct only after ro restart tango | 02:06 |
| cehteh | 7.1G/home/user/MyDocs/.maps/OpenStreetMap I | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hrhrrhrr | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I vaguely recall some script to do that | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer | 02:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: restart tango after cleaning cache? | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | download tiles in a tango compliant way | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, tango has a function to do that | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | the weird thing is those 0-length tiles never seem to happen with buld download of tango. The happen frequently though when tango dynamically pulls needed tiles | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | bulK | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Ask Mr Tcpdump. | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh | 02:11 |
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| * Arif_ is eating cookies | 02:12 | |
| * SpeedEvil is pondering coupling coefficients of pans. | 02:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hrmmmm COOOOOKIEEEES | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ?? o.O | 02:14 |
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| * Arif_ hits SpeedEvil over the head with a pan | 02:14 | |
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| Kiborg | Hi | 02:15 |
| Kiborg | Is there a known problem for N900 that the USB stops working? | 02:16 |
| cehteh | mhm maemo mapper needs insane amounts of cpu load | 02:16 |
| Arif_ | it can break yes | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I've recently found how cheap inductive cookers have become. | 02:16 |
| Arif_ | lol | 02:16 |
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| Kiborg | It won't load the battery and connect to the comp. | 02:16 |
| Arif_ | try the wall charger | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: aah yep. Here same | 02:17 |
| cehteh | Kiborg: socket come loose? | 02:17 |
| javispedro | ah, the second tracker bug of the day | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | now the coupling makes sense | 02:17 |
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| Kiborg | Socket? | 02:17 |
| Arif_ | javispedro, it exploded again? | 02:17 |
| Kiborg | The USB port on N900? | 02:17 |
| javispedro | Arif_: yes, it lost all of my albumart again. | 02:17 |
| cehteh | yes | 02:18 |
| javispedro | Arif_: this time due to a missing underscore in a function call. | 02:18 |
| Arif_ | .. | 02:18 |
| Arif_ | what are you doing ;P | 02:18 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 02:18 |
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| javispedro | just trying to make cover.jpg-style albumart work without having to patch half the platform. | 02:19 |
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| * SpeedEvil misread that as albumenart. | 02:19 | |
| Arif_ | ah | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Which would be an odd medium. | 02:19 |
| Arif_ | I have all my album art embeded | 02:19 |
| javispedro | yes, that works. | 02:19 |
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| Arif_ | I wonder if anyone can reproduce my search bug :P | 02:20 |
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| Arif_ | anyone willing to try ? =D | 02:21 |
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| javispedro | I couldn't. | 02:22 |
| Kiborg | So the USB port death is a known problem? Now the only solution is to use the warranty? | 02:22 |
| ShadowJK | if it's already broken no other solution | 02:23 |
| Arif_ | buy a new N900! | 02:23 |
| jacekowski | if it's already out of warranty you could use sales of goods act from 1979 | 02:23 |
| jacekowski | and base your claim on reasonable life expectancy | 02:23 |
| jacekowski | which would cover you up to 5 years | 02:23 |
| ShadowJK | no way it'd be out of warranty already ;) | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | http://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap/yevaud.openstreetmap-if_eth1.html - tiles from ethernet. | 02:24 |
| Kiborg | Nah it has a 2 year warranty. | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: irrelevant | 02:24 |
| jacekowski | or just use warranty | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: it's within the 6 mo period when it's assumed to be a manufacturing defect | 02:24 |
| cehteh | not in europe ... | 02:24 |
| cehteh | 2 years here .. | 02:24 |
| jacekowski | in europe as well | 02:24 |
| jacekowski | 2 years | 02:25 |
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| Kiborg | Yes here in EU it has a 2 years warranty. So back to the shop first thing next week. | 02:25 |
| ShadowJK | It's a bit messy. Nokia has said they'll fix it, but still some repair centres don't want to :/ | 02:26 |
| Kiborg | So it is a known problem? | 02:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | kynky: some people have reported it as an issue yes. | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's more of an issue than other phones... | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI there isn't a repair centre solution other than change out the motherboard. | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | At least not an official one | 02:28 |
| Termana_n810 | When a heap of people start reporting the same thing - you kno its an issue | 02:28 |
| Termana_n810 | know* | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | that's listed in the l3/l4 manual. | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana_n810: no, you don't. | 02:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | Termana_n810: You know a lot of people started reporting the same thing. | 02:29 |
| cehteh | /dev/mmcblk0p1 27.0G 8.4G 18.6G 31% /home/user/MyDocs | 02:29 |
| cehteh | /dev/mmcblk1p1 14.8G 6.4G 8.5G 43% /media/mmc1 | 02:29 |
| cehteh | .. woho ... fits for a backup of emmc to uSD :P | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | If it's not out of line with other phones USB ports breaking - it's not really an issue. | 02:29 |
| * SpeedEvil backs up his laptop to his phone daily. | 02:29 | |
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| SpeedEvil | rsync ++ | 02:29 |
| Termana_n810 | SpeedEvil - point out another phone thats currently having this problem | 02:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Termana_n810: bogus point to some degree. | 02:30 |
| Termana_n810 | None? So, its an issue then isn't it | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | As it presupposes a community exists round every phone with the same user visibility. | 02:30 |
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| Termana_n810 | Even if other phones were having the same problem - its still to some degree an issue | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 02:31 |
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| cehteh | dont forget the stockholm syndrome :P | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | However - the right place to answer this question won't give out the numbers. | 02:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia will have numbers on repairs done. | 02:31 |
| cehteh | i mean others dont care if they can not replace the battery :P | 02:31 |
| ptl | they would | 02:32 |
| ptl | but then Apple tells them they shouldn't. And suddenly they don't. | 02:32 |
| ptl | neurolinguistic programming! | 02:33 |
| cehteh | hehe | 02:33 |
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| Termana_n810 | pti is describing at least half of Apples seller base | 02:33 |
| Termana_n810 | Praise the almighty Jobs | 02:33 |
| Termana_n810 | :P | 02:33 |
| cehteh | ok .. installing 'kernel-flasher-maemo' .. wish me well | 02:33 |
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| cehteh | mhm this will be a bit pita when the next nokia firmware replaces the kernel without ext4 support .. *thinking* | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil | http://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap/yevaud.openstreetmap-if_eth1.html | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | openstreetmap network traffic | 02:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | Kick off downloads at about midnight GMT looks best | 02:36 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: hey look the release of maemo mapper today had no big impact :P | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - ... :) | 02:36 |
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| bennypr0fane | Hi i was just prompted to update Ovi suite for windows, does anyone know whether the new version supports N900? | 02:37 |
| ShadowJK | not really. | 02:37 |
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| bennypr0fane | you don't know or no support? | 02:38 |
| ShadowJK | I'd assume no support, people are still whining about it | 02:38 |
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| bennypr0fane | well, the update only just came out, right? | 02:39 |
| bennypr0fane | or has it been awhile already? | 02:40 |
| bennypr0fane | i'm trying to find Ovi suite version info, but no success yet | 02:40 |
| ShadowJK | it's a bit hard to follow anyway | 02:41 |
| ShadowJK | some people want ovi suite on linux | 02:41 |
| ShadowJK | some people seem to want ovi suite on n900 | 02:41 |
| ShadowJK | but i havent even opened the threads | 02:41 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 02:41 |
| bennypr0fane | i'm actually not that crazy about ovi suite itself, what i'm waiting for is full syncing support for ovi services (calendar...) | 02:43 |
| crashanddie | anyone good with stepper motors and gearboxes? | 02:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: ##electronics | 02:43 |
| crashanddie | thanks bru | 02:43 |
| ShadowJK | interesting | 02:44 |
| * ShadowJK joins | 02:44 | |
| ShadowJK | :Cannot join channel (+j) - throttle exceeded, try again later | 02:44 |
| ShadowJK | lol, guess I wasn't the only one | 02:44 |
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| bennypr0fane | anyone knows when the big firmware update is due? | 02:48 |
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| * SpeedEvil stabs nokia uk. | 02:49 | |
| * SpeedEvil stabs nokia uk again. | 02:49 | |
| MohammadAG | ~curse Nokia UK | 02:49 |
| pronto | o.o | 02:49 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Nokia UK ! | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | :) | 02:49 |
| MohammadAG | bennypr0fane, 2010, hopefully ;) | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I hate the delay for new firmware that at some point I may actually invest the 60s in setting up a ssh tunnel somewhere else and updating through that. | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Not looking like it's gonna be today. | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I've still got to finish picking my right big toe. | 02:50 |
| javispedro | If I keep filling Tracker one-liner bugs that also happen to already be fixed on Harmattan they'll end up kicking me out of b.m.o :) | 02:51 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, how is that going to help? | 02:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I was assuming it was the update servers offering differing content on some sort of DNS basis | 02:52 |
| ShadowJK | Well there might be that | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: for load leveling updates | 02:52 |
| ShadowJK | But the biggest issue is the product code | 02:52 |
| ShadowJK | it knows you've got a UK variant | 02:52 |
| ShadowJK | and will only offer UK variants | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:52 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders what the UK variant does. | 02:52 | |
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| ShadowJK | replaced the default google.com bookmark to google.co.uk | 02:53 |
| ShadowJK | what else? | 02:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (listed in L3/4) any page number? | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer? | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-02-28 01:28:43] <SpeedEvil> that's listed in the l3/l4 manual | 02:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | (12:28:24 AM) SpeedEvil: AIUI there isn't a repair centre solution other than change out the motherboard. | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | (12:28:32 AM) SpeedEvil: At least not an official one | 02:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah | 02:56 |
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| cehteh | as usual today ... i'm even surprised that its not throwawas defect device and replace with a new one | 02:57 |
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| cehteh | and it actualls has screws .. no clips and glue .. | 02:58 |
| ShadowJK | i think it might even use one single size of screw for easy disassembly | 02:58 |
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| cehteh | nah there are phillips and torx | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | clips and glue come in on a production of >10^6 units | 02:59 |
| ShadowJK | cehteh: oh :( | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are locations torx head won't match | 03:00 |
| ShadowJK | torx is annoying, you can have a zillion of them, and then they invent a new 1.33333344455555998 size that you dont have | 03:00 |
| cehteh | mhm i think i hosed my device .. its still playing webradio but doesnt respond to anything else | 03:01 |
| cehteh | (ssh, unlock, slide open) | 03:01 |
| Lumpio- | What's the advantage of torx over other screw heads anyways | 03:01 |
| cehteh | not even the display turns on | 03:01 |
| Lumpio- | It's like the only common one that requires exactly the correct size | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I found I opend T5 with a T4 driver without even realizing it | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: press the power button or pull hte bat | 03:01 |
| cehteh | i dont want to | 03:01 |
| Lumpio- | Well, almost exactly ¬_¬ | 03:01 |
| ShadowJK | Lumpio-, precisely because it requires the exact size | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Lumpio-: less cam-out, better torque | 03:02 |
| cehteh | had a rsync from emmc to uSD running | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: it's rsync | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | it can be restarted | 03:02 |
| ShadowJK | cehteh, that kind of stuff is good at causing swapstorms :-) | 03:02 |
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| cehteh | --bwlimit next time ... | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | torx is a machine thing | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | pays off on MP | 03:03 |
| cehteh | holding the power button does .... nothing | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: wait for it to swap | 03:05 |
| cehteh | hehe .. 10 minutes? | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | eventually all the events you triggered will kick in in fast sequence :-P | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I had to wait 30min once | 03:05 |
| cehteh | media player plays without a glitch btw | 03:05 |
| cehteh | (webradio) | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | some friggin youtube eaten up the mem | 03:06 |
| cehteh | no more patience .. ripping out the batt | 03:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: kill the net :-D | 03:07 |
| cehteh | rsyncs between emmc and uSD | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, wait for another hour or two | 03:07 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd set /proc/sys/swappiness to 1 before heavy filetransfers | 03:07 |
| cehteh | already took the bat out | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | good luck fella | 03:08 |
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| MohammadAG | Nokia pulled down the paid stuff on the ovi store - again | 03:08 |
| cehteh | well i made a backup before just not the 7GB osm data | 03:08 |
| cehteh | but these are in my squid | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | tell us if it reboots without flaws | 03:08 |
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| cehteh | reboooting | 03:08 |
| * DocScrutinizer getting OM feelings :-P | 03:09 | |
| cehteh | pass & pin .. correct desktop appears | 03:09 |
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| cehteh | ok looks fine | 03:10 |
| pronto | lmfao my phone has a load of 14.42 | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | a mere nice would have done. Nah wait, that's messybox, no nice :-(( | 03:10 |
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| cehteh | nice wont do | 03:11 |
| pronto | appetnly scp over wifi takes a lot of cpu | 03:11 |
| cehteh | would need ionice | 03:12 |
| cehteh | there is nice .. | 03:12 |
| javispedro | that's nothing, my webserver has a load of 500! | 03:12 |
| cehteh | unice rsync .. on my laptop where unice is a script for 'ultra-nice' ... nice 19, ionice -c idle | 03:13 |
| cehteh | with dbench you can generate any load you want (and still keep the device responsive) | 03:13 |
| ShadowJK | ionice is kinda coupled to regular nice too these days | 03:14 |
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| dracflamloc_ | good evening all | 03:14 |
| dracflamloc_ | anyone around? | 03:15 |
| dracflamloc_ | whats the best rogue like for n900? preferably not isometric-style. i like basic tiles or ascii | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, what? | 03:16 |
| cehteh | nethack | 03:16 |
| cehteh | is packaged somewhere | 03:17 |
| dracflamloc_ | mmk | 03:17 |
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| dracflamloc_ | DocScrutinizer, you dont know what a roguelike is? | 03:18 |
| cehteh | he is too young for that :P | 03:18 |
| dracflamloc_ | well he better learn | 03:18 |
| dracflamloc_ | http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=What_a_roguelike_is <-- DocScrutinizer | 03:19 |
| javispedro | lol | 03:19 |
| javispedro | since I enlarged my DTIM by five I get a lot of out of order segment tcp/ip stack warnings in kernel log | 03:20 |
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| cehteh | the n900 needs attachable cooling fins :P | 03:21 |
| javispedro | but the battery life has increased a bit | 03:21 |
| cehteh | DTIM? | 03:22 |
| javispedro | in layman's terms, "time between wakeups while in wi-fi power saving mode" | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | me? too young? hard to imagine :-S | 03:22 |
| cehteh | my vpn was bit unstable and drained the battery quite fast .. which i found out the keepalive/ping was to fast it tried unnnecessary reconnects | 03:23 |
| cehteh | ah | 03:23 |
| dracflamloc_ | anyway | 03:23 |
| javispedro | it's not really that ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTIM ) but higher interval between them means more latency + more battery life. | 03:23 |
| cehteh | well my ap dont work well with the n900 .. i have it setup at moderate power saving for wlan, because full losses connection sometimes | 03:23 |
| dracflamloc_ | cant seem to find anything but that isometric one | 03:23 |
| javispedro | vultures | 03:24 |
| dracflamloc_ | right that one | 03:24 |
| cehteh | there is plain nethack somewhere .. | 03:24 |
| dracflamloc_ | yea in trying to find | 03:24 |
| cehteh | maybe in devel | 03:24 |
| dracflamloc_ | i'm | 03:24 |
| cehteh | 03:25 | |
| cehteh | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# apt-cache search nethack | 03:25 |
| cehteh | nethack-console - dungeon crawl game - text-based interface | 03:25 |
| cehteh | nethack-common - dungeon crawl game - common files | 03:25 |
| dracflamloc_ | cool. | 03:25 |
| dracflamloc_ | are you guys running windows or linux? | 03:26 |
| cehteh | only linux here .. but in this channel are also windows people | 03:27 |
| Lumpio- | Windows people? Where!? | 03:27 |
| cehteh | (hah anyone here ever seen a mac user with a n900?) | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~kick dracflamloc_ | 03:27 |
| * infobot kicks dracflamloc_ | 03:27 | |
| Lumpio- | IHPOENE | 03:27 |
| dracflamloc_ | =( | 03:27 |
| javispedro | cehteh: there's one on this channel | 03:27 |
| dracflamloc_ | yea i run all linux too | 03:27 |
| d14 | :o | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | redmond crap only when I whore for employment | 03:28 |
| cehteh | javispedro: we should report that to Steve Jobs .. or Ballmer .. whatever :) | 03:28 |
| dracflamloc_ | i made a kinda rogue-like. but atm its only compiled for windows | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | even then... | 03:28 |
| Lumpio- | I have an old laptop with XP I thought I'd use for work (remote desktop) | 03:28 |
| ptl | only linux here too | 03:28 |
| Lumpio- | Took like 7 hours to get that thing installed | 03:28 |
| Lumpio- | ._. | 03:28 |
| dracflamloc_ | lol | 03:29 |
| Lumpio- | And then I found out that Linux rdesktop had been updated and was at least as good, if not better. | 03:29 |
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| crashanddie | cehteh: I'm touting the fact of opping myself and kicking you for thinking there aren't any mac users in here | 03:29 |
| javispedro | Lumpio-: so Microsoft "fixed" that by requiring rdesktop clients to have working DirectX implementation to get full vista | 03:29 |
| cehteh | rsync runs fine now btw .. just wondering how long it will take :) | 03:29 |
| Lumpio- | Oh I don't want "full vista" | 03:29 |
| Lumpio- | I got all the visual stuff turned off | 03:29 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: so sorry :P | 03:30 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: GeneralAntilles, timsamoff, timeless, me... | 03:30 |
| * DocScrutinizer points to *_mbp | 03:30 | |
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| cehteh | uname -a | 03:32 |
| cehteh | Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28maemo-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Wed Feb 17 16:13:31 CET 2010 armv7l unknow | 03:32 |
| cehteh | .. is that now the new kernel? .. | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Wed Feb 17 | 03:32 |
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| * cehteh is a bit scared installing a kernel from a package | 03:33 | |
| cehteh | yes looks new .. or? i didnt checked it before .. whats the stock kernel? | 03:33 |
| ptl | mine is from dec 17 | 03:33 |
| cehteh | ok | 03:33 |
| ptl | how did you get this one? | 03:34 |
| cehteh | there is a package 'linux-kernel-flasher' which pretends to be an enhanced kernel | 03:34 |
| cehteh | installing it worked all too well .. so i am bit curious if it really installed a new kernel :P | 03:34 |
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| ptl | apt-cache search didn't find it, so I guess it's not on the repositories | 03:35 |
| ptl | how 'enhanced' it is? | 03:35 |
| cehteh | it is .. but maybe devel | 03:35 |
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| ptl | I have maemo-devel and maemo-testing | 03:36 |
| cehteh | encryption, ext3, ipv6 and tons of goodies | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | version junkies | 03:36 |
| ptl | couldn't find it... | 03:36 |
| cehteh | kernel-flasher-maemo - Linux kernel updater for an enhanced Maemo 5 kernel | 03:37 |
| cehteh | is the package | 03:37 |
| ptl | found it | 03:37 |
| ptl | do you recommend it? | 03:37 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: feature, not version | 03:37 |
| cehteh | ptl: haha, dont ask me .. i just trying | 03:37 |
| cehteh | i once ask here and someone else used it without bricking his device | 03:38 |
| ptl | ok... well... it's still 2.6.28, just compiled with a later date, maybe with some additional drivers and patches | 03:38 |
| cehteh | took me a week to consider if i want to try it now :) | 03:38 |
| cehteh | prolly its the stock n900 kernel just reconfigured | 03:38 |
| ptl | yeah, I think I won't, unless I badly needed a feature enabled by it | 03:38 |
| cehteh | i want ext4, and possibly encryption | 03:38 |
| ptl | what for? | 03:39 |
| ptl | I mean, ext4 | 03:39 |
| ptl | encryption I can understand - even though there is truecrypt on the repositories and that should worm | 03:39 |
| ptl | *work | 03:39 |
| cehteh | ext4 because it gave a solid performance boost on my laptop and it works generally better on flash drives | 03:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | worm - *smile* | 03:40 |
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| cehteh | i need a unix fs .. and if there is a choice from ext3 to ext4 then ext4 wins by a big margin | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | encryption, and some random printfs in various code I want to understand. | 03:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to try breaking out the flashlight LED from the camera | 03:42 |
| SpeedEvil | That is - have it also exposed as an LED | 03:42 |
| cehteh | huh? | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: sounds like a plan | 03:42 |
| Sandman | is there any port for 7zip on Maemo? | 03:42 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: the flashlight program currently has to open the camera to be able to control the flashlight. | 03:43 |
| cehteh | ah yes | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: this breaks stuff. | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: but there isn't a good reason for this to be so. | 03:43 |
| cehteh | open camera device? | 03:43 |
| redeeman | cehteh: ofcourse ext4 have had, and probably still does, various severe issues | 03:43 |
| cehteh | the leds can also be lighted on a 'indicator' level which is more dim than the torch | 03:44 |
| cehteh | i'd like to see how that uis | 03:44 |
| cehteh | redeeman: such as? | 03:44 |
| cehteh | i am using ext4 since quite some time and never had any issues | 03:44 |
| redeeman | cehteh: there have been data corruption issues every release since ext4 was marked stable | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yeah - open the camera device | 03:44 |
| redeeman | well just because you didn't doesn't mean others didn't | 03:45 |
| cehteh | well .. it cant be worse than FAT :P | 03:45 |
| redeeman | in some ways it is | 03:45 |
| redeeman | vfat has been pretty damn stable MANY years back | 03:45 |
| redeeman | ext4 cannot even begin to aproach that | 03:45 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: that is - not the physical shutter - the light is implemented as a control of the video4linux driver | 03:45 |
| cehteh | and some (most) issues i seen where rather a result from bad userspace programming | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | indicator might be the redish one | 03:45 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: ok | 03:45 |
| cehteh | got that | 03:46 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: nope the flash leds have 3 levels indicator, torch and flash | 03:46 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 03:46 |
| cehteh | the red led is implemented elsewhere | 03:46 |
| SpeedEvil | flashlight is a bit brighter than required much of the time. | 03:46 |
| cehteh | yes | 03:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and flashlight is killer | 03:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | ? | 03:47 |
| cehteh | they drive the leds quite conservative so far i seen | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: <0.5s | 03:47 |
| arachnist | redeeman: vfat && stable? what shit you've been smoking? | 03:47 |
| cehteh | nokia choosen less power than they are rates | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | err - no | 03:47 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: thats flash .. not torch | 03:48 |
| SpeedEvil | flashlight is a misleading american term meaning a continuous light | 03:48 |
| redeeman | arachnist: so what exactly have you experienced of vfat instabilities? | 03:48 |
| SpeedEvil | torch is used in the UK. | 03:48 |
| arachnist | redeeman: data loss, data corruption | 03:48 |
| ptl | Sandman: that seems easy to do | 03:48 |
| redeeman | i hardly think so, ofcourse you can lose data if you hard reset without syncing, which is true of any fs | 03:48 |
| cehteh | well 'indicator' 'torch' and 'flash' are the terms in the datasheet of the driver chip and in the kernel driver | 03:48 |
| redeeman | as for data corruption, that's probably your disk or ram | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | so s/flashlight/flash/ | 03:49 |
| ptl | Sandman: well, in fact, I just found it on the repositories. apt-get install p7zip | 03:49 |
| cehteh | yeah .. rsync finished | 03:49 |
| cehteh | .. a 2nd run just to be sure | 03:49 |
| ptl | Sandman: or apt-get install p7zip-full | 03:49 |
| redeeman | i don't recall seeing a dataloss/corroption fix going into the vfat driver since forever | 03:49 |
| Sandman | lol! | 03:49 |
| redeeman | that thing is pretty much as stable as can be | 03:49 |
| cehteh | or unfixable :P | 03:50 |
| arachnist | redeeman: ever tried writing to a vfat device at really fast rates? | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | fubar | 03:50 |
| arachnist | redeeman: like 300MB/s? | 03:50 |
| redeeman | arachnist: as a matter of fact, i have | 03:50 |
| redeeman | on loopback on a ramdisk | 03:50 |
| redeeman | (tmpfs) | 03:50 |
| cehteh | loopbacks generally behave differently than real devices | 03:51 |
| arachnist | redeeman: well, i did it with zfs + zvol + iscsi + 10GbE network at work | 03:51 |
| redeeman | cehteh: in that case, its not a filesystem issue | 03:51 |
| cehteh | there are a lot barrier (or the lack of) | 03:51 |
| redeeman | well i don't care about zfs, we're talking vfat | 03:51 |
| cehteh | well filesystems make some assumptions about the underlying device | 03:52 |
| arachnist | redeeman: hello | 03:52 |
| redeeman | and the vfat driver is pretty damn stable | 03:52 |
| arachnist | redeeman: i exported zfs zvol over iscsi to a linux machine | 03:52 |
| arachnist | redeeman: over a 10GbE network | 03:52 |
| redeeman | so? we're talking about vfat here | 03:52 |
| arachnist | redeeman: you know what zvols and iscsi are? | 03:53 |
| redeeman | yes | 03:53 |
| arachnist | well then, every other filesystem hasn't shown any issues with that setup | 03:53 |
| arachnist | except for ufs and vfat | 03:53 |
| redeeman | that's with a very high degree of certainty not a problem in vfat | 03:54 |
| arachnist | ofcourse. otherwise 100% reliable zfs and 100% reliable network is at fault here | 03:54 |
| arachnist | not some shitty filesystem | 03:54 |
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| redeeman | or the iscsi subsystem ofcourse | 03:54 |
| redeeman | the vfat driver is being used in literally countless devices | 03:55 |
| redeeman | its far more likely that another thing is at fault | 03:55 |
| arachnist | it is used in countless devices | 03:55 |
| arachnist | but most of them don't exceed 0.5MB/s | 03:55 |
| redeeman | are you implying some race condition exists? | 03:56 |
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| arachnist | i'm not trying to guess what the cause is. i'm just saying what the result was | 03:57 |
| redeeman | its extremely unlikely the problem is in vfat itself | 03:57 |
| arachnist | too bad only vfat on linux and ufs on freebsd encountered problems | 03:58 |
| redeeman | that still does not prove anything | 03:58 |
| cehteh | mke2fs -t ext4 -b 4096 -m 0 -E stride=32512 /dev/mmcblk0p1 ... ok? guess yes | 03:59 |
| redeeman | the fact that you're seeing the same issue on two entirely different OSs and filesystems, ought to tell you something | 03:59 |
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| cehteh | err wrong | 03:59 |
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| cehteh | stride=32 | 04:00 |
| arachnist | redeeman: the fact that i'm only seeing issues with filesystems that aren't considered reliable nowadays, should tell you something | 04:00 |
| redeeman | vfat IS considered reliable | 04:00 |
| redeeman | ofcourse without a journal etc, its not considered reliable in the event of EXTERNAL failures | 04:00 |
| cehteh | so reliable within its limits :) | 04:01 |
| redeeman | its reliable in itself | 04:01 |
| cehteh | well the problem is still lack of feature and performance | 04:01 |
| redeeman | certain failure in other parts of the system won't be protected against | 04:02 |
| arachnist | besides, vfat has other issues, like lack of unix permisions, not to mention xattr, or the filesystem size or file size limits | 04:02 |
| cehteh | yes but a filesystem is rarely used just to show itself :P | 04:02 |
| redeeman | cehteh: yes, but that wasnt what we are talking about | 04:02 |
| arachnist | redeeman: how worthy is a filesystem driver, that doesn't check anything it has written in a reliable way? | 04:03 |
| redeeman | that is still not what we are talking about | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | most filesystems don't check what they write | 04:03 |
| cehteh | redeeman: well i am interesting in using the filesystem, nothing less | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | nearly all I suspect, not most. | 04:04 |
| arachnist | SpeedEvil: some filesystems write checksums along the actual data, so that it can be verified when the file is read | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 04:04 |
| redeeman | and if your block device is working, vfat shall be properly stable | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | arachnist: and out of those commonly used general purpose filesystems, none do that. | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | At least at the filesystem level for block devices assumed to be reliable. | 04:05 |
| arachnist | SpeedEvil: depends on what environment we're talking about. zfs can (and, by default, does) write checksums | 04:05 |
| arachnist | SpeedEvil: murderfs4 also did, afair | 04:06 |
| cehteh | nope | 04:06 |
| cehteh | but btrfs does | 04:06 |
| arachnist | murderfs has had modules for checksumming | 04:06 |
| arachnist | murderfs4 | 04:07 |
| cehteh | yeah no one used it :P | 04:07 |
| cehteh | whenever i tried to stresstest it, it murdered my test data | 04:07 |
| arachnist | yeah, that's a sad thing about it | 04:07 |
| arachnist | back when people were interested in it, it was still very unstable | 04:08 |
| cehteh | sometimes it had no chance for that because it deadlocked the kernel before it was able to destroy data | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | arachnist: nearly all installed filesystems do not checksum the data. | 04:08 |
| * cehteh currently watches nilfs2 and btrfs | 04:08 | |
| arachnist | well, i learned the hard way that no block devices by themselves are reliable | 04:09 |
| cehteh | nilfs is ultra reliable and has a nice design for some purposes (lots writes, backups) | 04:09 |
| cehteh | but lacks features and performance yet | 04:09 |
| arachnist | zfs has nice features, is very reliable, efficent and fast. and has a freebsd prot | 04:10 |
| arachnist | port* | 04:10 |
| cehteh | [ 3354.593872] EXT4-fs: mmcblk1p1: Filesystem with huge files cannot be mounted read-write without CONFIG_LSF. | 04:10 |
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| cehteh | waah .. damn .. that kernel isnt enough | 04:10 |
| arachnist | and i can boot directly from a 6 disk raidz2 (think: raid6) array | 04:10 |
| cehteh | well turning off huge-file support should fix it | 04:11 |
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| cehteh | anyone noticed how much the emmc (and prolly uSD too) preformance degrades after some use .. | 04:15 |
| cehteh | mmc/sd controllers are really not up to date with the block management techniques | 04:16 |
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| cehteh | uhm .. great the fdisk binary from http://sumoudou.org doesnt work with the current libblkid :P | 04:45 |
| cehteh | sfdisk seems to be very pita to change the fs-type | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | cfdisk is in some repo | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | try cfdisk maybe | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 04:46 |
| cehteh | uhm .. what repo chinook? | 04:46 |
| cehteh | cant find it | 04:47 |
| SpeedEvil | dunno, sorry | 04:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/ham.list | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | night all | 04:48 |
| cehteh | thanks | 04:49 |
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| cehteh | deb http://193.93.133.106/deb fremantle stable .... looks trustworthy :) | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, apt-get install cfdisk? | 04:50 |
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| cehteh | yeah i just need to figure out where that is .. actually i can dpkg -i then | 04:51 |
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| cehteh | wtf is the 'rodir' mount option for | 05:02 |
| cehteh | readonly dirs .. makes no sense to me and my manpages | 05:03 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: sounds like it means you can modify files, but not change their directory entries | 05:03 |
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| luke-jr | which is a task only slightly more complex than read-only really | 05:03 |
| luke-jr | so might be able to do it w/o marking the FS dirty | 05:03 |
| cehteh | the fatfs is mounted with those | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | so probably you can't rewrite "inodes" (which aten't really existing on fat anyway) | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | on a decent fs you can open a dir like any other file | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | for fatfs this sounds like a bad idea | 05:07 |
| cehteh | oh man sometimes i want to beat the crap out of nokia, this genfstab is fuba | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 05:07 |
| cehteh | i thought i can add my changes nicely | 05:07 |
| luke-jr | just sometimes? | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | genfstab is one of the more insane ideas I ever heard of | 05:08 |
| cehteh | yeah | 05:08 |
| cehteh | the kernel can mount by uuid and device and all kinds of things | 05:08 |
| cehteh | the whole partitioning thing looks someone had no clue and way to much weed | 05:09 |
| * cehteh deletes the genfstab and writes a ordinary fstab on his device | 05:09 | |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 05:09 |
| cehteh | horray for the big restore action after the next firmware update which will overwrite anything | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | prolly the main reason that has stopped me so far from ruskie repartition right away | 05:11 |
| cehteh | well with the frequency nokia releases new firmwares this is really not a problem :P | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I had a deep look into init.d/rcS yesterday, and wondered and wondered | 05:12 |
| cehteh | hehe yeah | 05:12 |
| cehteh | i tweaked it sightly .. | 05:13 |
| cehteh | # I hate this hack. -- Md | 05:13 |
| cehteh | .. | 05:13 |
| cehteh | orly? :) | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't see a real reason for _not_ having any of those /usr, /var and what else on /home. And mount home in rcS, then bindmount the whole dirs | 05:13 |
| cehteh | exactly | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, went wtf o.O on that | 05:14 |
| cehteh | there are so much better ways to solve that | 05:14 |
| cehteh | i always point at eeepc .. which use a unionfs and have a readonly root .. almost unbrickable | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I actually forgot what that "hack" was all about. Freud? | 05:15 |
| cehteh | you can boot them with factory defaults no matter how hard you beaten them | 05:15 |
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| cehteh | or just readonly root and bindmount when going up, its not *that* much space to waste on a 32GB Device if you have something of the essentials doubled | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah, make_extra_nodes... hmmm :-S | 05:16 |
| cehteh | # We can safely continue booting now. | 05:17 |
| cehteh | initctl emit MOUNTS_OK | 05:17 |
| cehteh | .. in rcS-late ... i am pretty sure about that... | 05:17 |
| cehteh | because i commented *everything* before that line out now :P | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's see what's in etc/udev/links.conf | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | hrhrhrrrr hhaha | 05:18 |
| cehteh | i hope busybox mount knows -a | 05:19 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: lmao :) | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | # This file does not exist. Please do not ask the Debian maintainer about it. | 05:20 |
| cehteh | i hope there is nothing which deletes fstab at shutdown .. then i am screwed :P | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | (messybox) I *really really* would test that prior to reboot | 05:20 |
| cehteh | yep that was my lmao | 05:20 |
| cehteh | i think i prolly wait 1-2 more firmware updates and then part away from nokia anyways | 05:21 |
| cehteh | most of the hardware works, ok frontcam could be fixed | 05:21 |
| cehteh | and their software isnt worth the mess | 05:22 |
| cehteh | modprobe panic_info_buff | 05:23 |
| cehteh | sleep 1 | 05:23 |
| cehteh | osso-product-info > /sys/kernel/debug/panic_info_buff | 05:23 |
| cehteh | way too much weed :P | 05:23 |
| crashanddie | "Hi, I'd like to rent... a... car... the olympic one..." "You mean Audi?" "Yeah, whatever" | 05:25 |
| cehteh | mount -a works | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh yeah, another WTF?!?! | 05:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seen what's osso-product-info actually? :-P | 05:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | PI=`which osso-product-info` | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | if [ x$OPI != x ]; then | 05:29 |
| arachnist | crashanddie: lol | 05:29 |
| cehteh | ok .. i found that it should umount halfway sane and doesnt delete the fstab | 05:30 |
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| cehteh | lets copy the stuff back and then hope and pray | 05:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: check for messybox compatibility first !! | 05:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's pretty few commands in messybox really compatible to their toolbox counterparts | 05:32 |
| cehteh | i did | 05:33 |
| cehteh | i didnt do much | 05:33 |
| cehteh | just mount -a | 05:33 |
| cehteh | and commenting other stuff out | 05:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd not be surprised messybox not knowing -a for mount | 05:33 |
| cehteh | well and i can only loose MyDocs .. (not the data, the device/mountpoint) | 05:33 |
| cehteh | so thats really no big deal | 05:33 |
| cehteh | i tried that | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell I'd not even be surprised crappybox not knowing the fstab based mount at all | 05:34 |
| cehteh | of course the autogenerated fstab has the wrong order too ... | 05:34 |
| cehteh | nah its not that worse | 05:34 |
| cehteh | the worst what can happen is that i have to reflash .. the data is all on the uSD | 05:35 |
| cehteh | and on my laptop | 05:35 |
| cehteh | ah forgotten to make a fstab entry for the /media mounts | 05:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | given that's hotswap I wonder if it needs an entry in fstab at all | 05:37 |
| cehteh | and i have to do a big 'chown' too ... | 05:37 |
| cehteh | i dont hotswap | 05:37 |
| cehteh | uhm well it gets unmounted when you remove the back cover .. | 05:37 |
| cehteh | well lets dont care about that | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | really? | 05:37 |
| cehteh | its just some script glue which can be fixed | 05:38 |
| cehteh | yes | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh that sounds cool | 05:38 |
| cehteh | its hotswap .. | 05:38 |
| cehteh | the camera shutter sensor is prolly 3-state .. | 05:38 |
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| cehteh | open, closed, removed | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, it's a hall or reed under the stand magnet | 05:39 |
| cehteh | nope its no reed | 05:39 |
| cehteh | its a IR reflex | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | the camslide yes | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | the backlid sense no | 05:39 |
| cehteh | well maybe thats a reed then | 05:39 |
| cehteh | i dont look now while copying data :P | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 05:40 |
| cehteh | i once was just surpised after removing and reapplying the cover, the cam reset to internal storage | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | bug xxxxx: uSD unmounts when device placed on a magnet | 05:40 |
| cehteh | haha | 05:41 |
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| arachnist | lol | 05:41 |
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| cehteh | i already suspected that the device has no compass may have some rather stupid coincidences with all this magnets on the device itself | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I wonder how those *with* compass manage to cope with magnets in vib motor and speakers | 05:42 |
| cehteh | i doubt that these are compensateable .. moreover the field change when you flip out the stand | 05:43 |
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| cehteh | yes these count as more magenets too | 05:43 |
| cehteh | while motor and speakers can be pretty well shielded | 05:43 |
| cehteh | but reeds only work with unshielded magents | 05:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer as well wonders why they haven't used a mech switch for that purpose | 05:44 | |
| dracflamloc_ | anyone interested in making a linux build of this? http://code.google.com/p/wtfgame/ | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp the camslide is a weird idea to use an IR for that | 05:45 |
| cehteh | wear, dust .. and the reeds are smd's which can be put from reel on a normal production line | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: ack | 05:45 |
| cehteh | btw copying back data to ext4 feels much faster already | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: at least reeds don't consume power all the time | 05:46 |
| cehteh | well ir reflex power consumption is neglecitble | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously | 05:46 |
| cehteh | even on this device | 05:46 |
| arachnist | dracflamloc_: general linux build, or a maemo build? | 05:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a 1us pulse every 200ms is enough | 05:47 |
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| cehteh | 200ms are quite long .. but even every 50ms will do and still only in the uA range | 05:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and you got a secret service-interface for free ;-P | 05:48 |
| cehteh | lol | 05:48 |
| dracflamloc_ | arachnist, probably just general linux, maemo would rock too, but i don't know if google's V8 engine works on ARM yet | 05:49 |
| Termana_n810 | dracflamloc_ - Googles V8 engine should work on both x86 and ARM | 05:50 |
| dracflamloc_ | nice | 05:50 |
| dracflamloc_ | then yea | 05:50 |
| dracflamloc_ | maemo and linux | 05:50 |
| * DocScrutinizer prefers Mercedes V8 engine - the 5L one | 05:51 | |
| dracflamloc_ | it'd have to be slightly downscaled for n900, since at the current state its a ram hog, but the worlds are so enourmous a scaled back version would still be pretty cool | 05:51 |
| cehteh | PID PPID USER STAT RSS %MEM PU COMMAND | 05:52 |
| cehteh | 10 2 root SW 0 0.0 19.8 [omap2_mcspi] | 05:52 |
| cehteh | .. whats that, the mmc driver? | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | spi | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 05:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | might be | 05:53 |
| cehteh | mhm dma/interrupt engine?... | 05:53 |
| cehteh | is active when playing music too .. but massively active with this copying action | 05:53 |
| cehteh | (music=webradio) | 05:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | spi might be the wifi as well | 05:54 |
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| cehteh | can be | 05:55 |
| cehteh | ah yes ... i had a ssh session scrolling the copy action | 05:56 |
| ShadowJK | yep, wifi is on spi on n900 | 05:56 |
| cehteh | in screen .. detached and load goes down | 05:56 |
| * cehteh would like iostat on the n900 | 05:56 | |
| cehteh | 'search' | 05:57 |
| ShadowJK | it's probably in extras-devel | 05:57 |
| cehteh | sysstat ... | 05:57 |
| ShadowJK | sysstat yea | 05:57 |
| ShadowJK | h | 05:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: where from is your knowledge about those details? | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | (spi for wifi) | 05:58 |
| ShadowJK | /sys/bus/spi/ | 05:58 |
| cehteh | another 196kb eaten from rootfs | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: lol | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | chk | 05:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err dunno if that's a common acro - so: could have known | 05:59 |
| ShadowJK | /sys/devices/platform/omap2_mcspi.4/spi4.0/net:wlan0 | 05:59 |
| ShadowJK | ;) | 05:59 |
| cehteh | iostat -m 30 .. so lets see | 06:00 |
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| ShadowJK | -k is probably more appropriate ;D | 06:01 |
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| cehteh | hehe | 06:01 |
| cehteh | damn that was no joke :P | 06:02 |
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| * DocScrutinizer curstes that weird upstart-alike sysinit config, where you got no viable way to tell which scripts are run in which sequence | 06:04 | |
| cehteh | hum .. copied bak the 8gb .. finsihed and only 2.2gb used .. that makes me think somehow | 06:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | err... | 06:07 |
| cehteh | well there was nothing important .. but hm :) | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | du & diff? | 06:09 |
| cehteh | in what package is 'diff' | 06:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol | 06:10 |
| cehteh | patchutils i gues :P | 06:11 |
| cehteh | sent 2396705 bytes received 375272 bytes 20159.83 bytes/sec | 06:11 |
| cehteh | total size is 1878911831 speedup is 677.82 | 06:11 |
| cehteh | ok lets see | 06:11 |
| cehteh | does vfat waste massive space on small files? | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | diffmo | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 06:13 |
| cehteh | ah thanks | 06:15 |
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| cehteh | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# du -s /home/user/MyDocs/ | 06:17 |
| cehteh | 2093512/home/user/MyDocs | 06:17 |
| cehteh | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# du -s /media/mmc1/MyDocs/ | 06:17 |
| cehteh | 4820384/media/mmc1/MyDocs | 06:17 |
| cehteh | ... and rsync tells its all in sync | 06:17 |
| * dracflamloc_ curses his lack of experience with linux make system | 06:18 | |
| cehteh | diffmo -r running and found no differences | 06:18 |
| cehteh | Nur in /home/user/MyDocs/: lost+found. | 06:18 |
| cehteh | ah one difference :P | 06:18 |
| cehteh | hey if ext4 does a massive space save .. duh! | 06:18 |
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| ShadowJK | does --apparent-size work on n900's du? | 06:21 |
| cehteh | guess not | 06:21 |
| cehteh | nope | 06:22 |
| cehteh | Usage: du [-aHLdclsxhmk] | 06:22 |
| cehteh | well looks really as if vfat wastes about 300% spcae or more for small (osm tiles) files | 06:23 |
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| * cehteh has a shitload of tiles here | 06:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm 1k sized files on 4k blocksize, that would explain it | 06:25 |
| cehteh | i have 4k blocksize on ext4 too .. but it can store small files effectively | 06:26 |
| cehteh | find /home/user/MyDocs/.maps/ | wc -l | 06:26 |
| cehteh | 122065 | 06:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | omg | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | filesize of a random file? | 06:27 |
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| cehteh | some hundred bytes to 2k | 06:27 |
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| cehteh | oh no the pngs are biggier | 06:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | though even with 122k files, I don't see how that makes it waste GB of storage | 06:28 |
| cehteh | diffmo is through .. no differences | 06:29 |
| cehteh | ok i am happy to have ext4 now .. case settled | 06:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh | 06:29 |
| cehteh | lemme test the camera | 06:29 |
| cehteh | works | 06:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 06:31 |
| cehteh | -- testing maemo mapper | 06:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | hope you'll come up with a script, or at least a 'history | pastebinit --' | 06:31 |
| cehteh | nah i'll patent it :P | 06:32 |
| cehteh | ok .. what we learnd today .. "VFAT is *much* more worse than thought" | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | I still don't buy *how bad* it sems to be | 06:34 |
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| cehteh | well .. what can i tell .. you see the numbers | 06:34 |
| cehteh | everything still works | 06:34 |
| cehteh | nothing missing | 06:34 |
| Termana_n810 | Right, like we needed to learn that FAT was bad | 06:34 |
| cehteh | i didnt rebooted yet .. | 06:34 |
| cehteh | doing that now .. lets see what i've forgotten :P | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should do a df anyway | 06:35 |
| cehteh | i did | 06:35 |
| cehteh | even more extreme results | 06:35 |
| cehteh | /dev/mmcblk1p1 14.8G 11.0G 3.9G 74% /media/mmc1 | 06:35 |
| cehteh | /dev/mmcblk0p1 26.6G 2.2G 24.4G 8% /home/user/MyDocs | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't get it how FAT is wasting >2GB in 122k files | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | large block sizes? | 06:36 |
| cehteh | when i started there was 8.4 GB used in MyDocs and 8.5GB free in mmc1 | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2MB | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | seen it | 06:36 |
| cehteh | the SD card prolly using different blocksizes (its a 16G card not 32G) | 06:37 |
| cehteh | explains that it already saves a little more space | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah actually 20k bs would suffice | 06:37 |
| cehteh | well dunno | 06:38 |
| cehteh | at worst i have deleted something huge accidentally .. or the hard-reset earlier eaten a lot of files | 06:38 |
| * cehteh misses nothing | 06:39 | |
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| cehteh | ok .. i do the reboot .. lets see | 06:43 |
| Termana_n810 | You miss nothing until you miss something | 06:45 |
| cehteh | cant be there was nothing important on the device | 06:45 |
| cehteh | and all this non important stuff is completely rsynced to my laptop | 06:46 |
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| cehteh | but hum .. it doesnt boot :P | 06:47 |
| Termana_n810 | :D | 06:48 |
| Termana_n810 | :P | 06:48 |
| cehteh | having no console sux a bit | 06:48 |
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| cehteh | ok time for flashing | 06:53 |
| cehteh | .. thats the first time i flash this device :P | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: welcome to the joy of embedded lowlevel debugging | 06:58 |
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| cehteh | so .. made a tea .. lets continue | 07:08 |
| cehteh | mhm there is only on emmc image .. that never got updated? | 07:14 |
| cehteh | well .. i try to keep the emmc, lets see | 07:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't want to reflash eMMC | 07:17 |
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| cehteh | well since its the emmc which i reformatted to ext4 ... | 07:21 |
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| cehteh | but first i just try to get it booting with the ext4 | 07:21 |
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| jebba | http://mirrors.kernel.org/moblin :) | 07:25 |
| cehteh | wow a green bar whilec flashing | 07:27 |
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| cehteh | ok i am back in business :P | 07:29 |
| cehteh | hah.. with emmc not mounted .. no home ext3 | 07:33 |
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| cehteh | wb | 07:34 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: it doesnt moint the emmc .. /home .... guess something crapped out | 07:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, checked your fstab? | 07:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | can you mount by hand? | 07:37 |
| cehteh | ah thanks .. there it is .. | 07:38 |
| cehteh | haha .. permission denied .. are you root :P | 07:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | rootfs ro? | 07:39 |
| cehteh | nope .. fresh flashed | 07:39 |
| cehteh | i give it one reboot again | 07:39 |
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| cehteh | it doesnt ask me for the passcode anymore .. interesting | 07:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: check the partiton table of eMMC | 07:47 |
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| cehteh | .. setted up wlan, installing rootsh .. | 07:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if a freshly flashed unmodified rootfs doesn't mount /home, I can't see what else might cause that other than parttab and home-fs corruption | 07:48 |
| cehteh | the partition-table looks good | 07:49 |
| cehteh | eww | 07:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck home? | 07:50 |
| cehteh | tries to mount mmcblk0p1 as home | 07:50 |
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| cehteh | ohnoes ... only vi | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | konqueror -url sftp://root@n900 | 07:52 |
| cehteh | heh | 07:52 |
| cehteh | i managed to edit the fstab with vi | 07:52 |
| cehteh | mounted now | 07:53 |
| cehteh | ssh now | 07:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer imagines some dozen old sysadms and hackers headbanging the desk on reading "managed to edit with vi" :-P | 07:54 | |
| cehteh | hey .. i am one of the people who write 'ed' scripts :) | 07:54 |
| cehteh | there is ed and there is emacs .. and the space between is filled with nano ... no space left for vi | 07:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I confess I avoid vi wherever there's an alternative | 07:55 |
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| cehteh | mhm .. so now lets go on only get the ext4 running | 07:57 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders what your access to the device looks like when /home not mounted | 07:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer | well, probably not much of a diff, at least for non-optified apps | 07:58 |
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| cehteh | # Segmentation fault | 08:00 |
| cehteh | me using vi | 08:00 |
| jaska | an "achievement" | 08:00 |
| Termana_n810 | cehteh - are you trying to make the rootfs partition on your n900, ext4? | 08:01 |
| cehteh | looks like initial start .. including ovi and first steps on the deaktop .. nothing unusual | 08:01 |
| cehteh | Termana_n810: nope only MyDocs | 08:01 |
| Termana_n810 | ah, normally that shouldn't be too difficult. But, err, this is Maemo we're talking about. Home of the non-mainstream hacks :P No offense | 08:03 |
| Termana_n810 | (no offense to the developers that is :P) | 08:04 |
| cehteh | hey .. i want to punch them | 08:04 |
| cehteh | there are so many ugly hack for no reason | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I want to know if dmesg is telling you why it refuses to mount /home | 08:05 |
| cehteh | prolly the the only reasons are "We want to make it differently" | 08:05 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: the (autogenerated) fstab pointed to the MyDocs partition | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 08:06 |
| cehteh | fixed that manually and mounted it now | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course, and -t vfat | 08:06 |
| cehteh | nah /home is ext3 ... there was a message that it cant mount the storage (which is ext4) | 08:07 |
| cehteh | this kernel cant handle ext4 .. i'm installing a new kernel next | 08:07 |
| Termana_n810 | didn't ext4 support only start coming in around .30? IIRC, the n900 kernel is .28 | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, yes. of course | 08:09 |
| cehteh | nope its in .28 | 08:09 |
| cehteh | but not enabled in the nokia kernel | 08:09 |
| jebba | ext4dev | 08:11 |
| Termana_n810 | sorry, let me rephrase - *stable* *working* ext4 | 08:12 |
| cehteh | no real ext4 not dev | 08:12 |
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| Termana_n810 | besides, if its not enabled in the kernel or your not loading it as a module - you will need to either enable it or build it as a module | 08:13 |
| Termana_n810 | before it will work | 08:13 |
| cehteh | there is a kernel in extras-devel which comes with ext4 | 08:13 |
| cehteh | ext4 is not the problem .. i had some bug preventing it booting | 08:14 |
| Termana_n810 | but you just said above "this kernel cannot handle ext4" | 08:16 |
| Termana_n810 | :P | 08:16 |
| cehteh | the stock kernel installed when flashing the device | 08:17 |
| Termana_n810 | ah i see, nevermind me :P | 08:17 |
| cehteh | ok .. rebooting | 08:18 |
| * cehteh rather wonders how he managed to brick the device in a way that it didnt asked for the passcode at boot | 08:19 | |
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| lucent | cehteh: did you use real bricks? | 08:19 |
| lucent | ...is all I can think of. | 08:20 |
| cehteh | damn .. again doesnt boot :P | 08:20 |
| * cehteh notes that a hand-edited fstab seems not to work | 08:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer | what passcode? | 08:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: maybe it's the kernel that doesn't work | 08:21 |
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| cehteh | i booted the kernel before doing the fstab | 08:22 |
| cehteh | and i mounted the ext4 manually | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 08:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mount -a | 08:22 |
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| cehteh | well next i just hardcode the mount | 08:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still it's strange the boot completely fails on a failing mount | 08:25 |
| cehteh | it starts with the moving dots but sticks with a completely black screen | 08:26 |
| cehteh | so the kernel starts up ... but userland gets stuck | 08:26 |
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| cehteh | and without console or so i have no way to find out what happens | 08:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah. As I said - the joy of messing with booting embedded devices | 08:27 |
| cehteh | well .. this is an artifical embedded device grr | 08:28 |
| jebba | check if userland tools only have ext4dev | 08:28 |
| cehteh | jebba: ext4 was not the problem | 08:28 |
| Termana_n810 | cehteh - why not compile a kernel with fbcon. I've been making some .33 kernels for the n810 and when userland decides to be an arse, fbcon prints out the userland errors | 08:31 |
| Termana_n810 | fbcon = framebuffer console (just in case you didn't know) | 08:32 |
| Termana_n810 | that way you should be able to find out where userland is freezing. | 08:33 |
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| cehteh | Termana_n810: actually i didnt want to put too much efforts into it .. | 08:37 |
| cehteh | and merging nokias stuff and maintaining all their stuff sounds not like easy going | 08:38 |
| Termana_n810 | well... :P there isn't really any other way unless you have a debug board | 08:38 |
| Termana_n810 | to view the serial console | 08:39 |
| cehteh | i just make it boot on the new kernel without the ext4 now | 08:39 |
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| raster | done. | 08:46 |
| * raster bah's at maemo | 08:46 | |
| Termana_n810 | done what? | 08:46 |
| raster | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9320 | 08:46 |
| povbot | Bug 9320: opengl-es2 rendering bugs | 08:46 |
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| raster | i was a good boy | 08:46 |
| raster | i filed a bug | 08:46 |
| raster | :) | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: hooray :-) | 08:47 |
| Termana_n810 | too bad it'll probably be marked Fixed in MeeGo | 08:47 |
| Termana_n810 | :P | 08:47 |
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| raster | Termana_n810: that'd be stupid | 08:48 |
| raster | as its actual gl-es driver bugs | 08:48 |
| raster | they will be in meego too | 08:48 |
| raster | fix them now | 08:48 |
| raster | performance is also bunk | 08:49 |
| raster | total crud | 08:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess there'll be quite some echo tomorrow. Or even in a few hours when everybody's out of the nest here in EU | 08:59 |
| Termana_n810 | about what? | 08:59 |
| Termana_n810 | raster's bug report? | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | about 9320 | 09:00 |
| Termana_n810 | yeah, but when isn't there dust being kicked up in here :P | 09:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas no whining and bitching will make the gles src come open | 09:01 |
| cehteh | \o/ --- manual mounting works | 09:05 |
| cehteh | still handwritten fstab .. | 09:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what changed? | 09:06 |
| cehteh | mount -a (i tried it manually, that worked, serveral times) | 09:06 |
| cehteh | prolly overseen some fairie dust in the scripts | 09:07 |
| jebba | how are you editing the fstab again after a failed boot? | 09:07 |
| cehteh | reflashed? | 09:07 |
| cehteh | well and the fstab regeneration is commented out now | 09:08 |
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| cehteh | ok .. putting uSD back in ans replay backup ... | 09:09 |
| cehteh | and the massive space saving of ext4 seems to be true | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | still don't get that | 09:10 |
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| cehteh | me neither | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | is ext4 compressing? | 09:11 |
| cehteh | no | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | sparse files? | 09:11 |
| cehteh | all it can do is storing small files in-place .. direct in the inode, yes sparse files of course, its a unix filesystem | 09:12 |
| cehteh | i thing all things come together | 09:12 |
| cehteh | and sum up | 09:12 |
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| cehteh | could also been that there where some deleted files which wherent closed .. my maemo mapper or so | 09:13 |
| cehteh | well .. FAT was invented for 640Kb 5"1/4 Diskettes :P | 09:14 |
| cehteh | hum .. eeeks | 09:15 |
| cehteh | i now put sd card back in and it asks me for 'initial' setup | 09:15 |
| cehteh | select region, clock and stuff | 09:15 |
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| cehteh | but all correctly mounted | 09:16 |
| * cehteh just restores the backup | 09:16 | |
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| Termana_n810 | heh Maemo just had a spazem at meand made all the panels blank and what not. probably the daemons i've disabled. | 09:31 |
| Termana_n810 | me and made* | 09:31 |
| Termana_n810 | crashed Tear as well :P | 09:32 |
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| Midday | hi | 09:38 |
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| mid_ | hi | 09:49 |
| Midday | 0_o | 09:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | o?O | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | .o0(???) | 09:54 |
| Lynoure | DocScrutinizer: hmm? | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | <Midday> 0_o | 09:56 |
| Lynoure | oh, crossmanga eyeplay | 09:56 |
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| Termana_n810 | Fun for the whole family, its crossmanga eyeplay - available in shopsnear you! | 10:11 |
| Termana_n810 | shops near* | 10:11 |
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| andrei1089 | hi, I made the mistake of rating my own package in maemo.org/downloads and now I can't post any comments on that page to answer user's questions. What can I do? | 10:18 |
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| voidprayer | Except N900, is there any other type using Maemo 5? | 11:00 |
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| jebba | no | 11:01 |
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| voidprayer | jebba: and it will soon be replaced by Maemo 6, leaving no any GTK+ based mobile system. | 11:04 |
| voidprayer | jebba: How soon? | 11:05 |
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| jebba | voidprayer: uh, it will have gtk+ available too | 11:06 |
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| Termana_n810 | voidprayer, GTK+ will still be available for Maemo 6 / MeeGo | 11:06 |
| voidprayer | jebba: available means most of application will move to Qt but you can use GTK+? or a GTK+ version of Maemo is availabe? | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | voidprayer: gtk is such a pain to work with so i am not surprised.. | 11:07 |
| jebba | voidprayer: you can still run gtk apps | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | but gtk is there, we are not sure of gtk maemo | 11:07 |
| jebba | moblin uses clutter | 11:07 |
| voidprayer | Stskeeps: well, it might be. but too many programmes in GTK+ and now it is a little hard to avoid. I hate GTK's huge button. | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | for netbook ui | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | voidprayer: agreed, but power of maemo is support for multiple toolkits | 11:08 |
| jebba | not sure what meego will use for dialer and such. | 11:08 |
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| voidprayer | Is GPE available in any commercial cellphone? | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | not sure if freerunner counts | 11:09 |
| jebba | voidprayer: you can install GPE on n900 | 11:09 |
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| jebba | it's in the repo | 11:10 |
| voidprayer | jebba: I see. Thank you. | 11:10 |
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| frals | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/g/gettext/gettext-base_0.17-4maemo1+0m5_armel.deb Size mismatch | 11:13 |
| frals | doh :< | 11:13 |
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| pupnik | as long as qt doesnt chew too much battery... | 11:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | jebba: dialer? I thought it will use ofono | 11:24 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh, meego still doesn't have a forum | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | still in discussions | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | as it needs to be approved by TSG first | 11:26 |
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| slonopotamus | hmm | 11:28 |
| slonopotamus | anyone successfully installed esbox on top of existing eclipse installation? | 11:28 |
| slonopotamus | it can't read stuff from update site, says white space is required between public id and system iid | 11:29 |
| slonopotamus | :/ | 11:29 |
| * RST38h throws up at the mention of eclipse | 11:29 | |
| RST38h | Ultimate N900 accessory: http://tsifra.spb.ru/mobile-skaf.jpg | 11:30 |
| raster | eclipse is AWWEEEEEEESOME | 11:30 |
| raster | it finally gives a reason for the 4gb of ram in my box | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: excellent | 11:30 |
| raster | and it makes good user of the 2 cores... | 11:30 |
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| raster | for editing text :) | 11:31 |
| * Shapeshifter found some hilarious eclipse code yesterday | 11:31 | |
| Shapeshifter | http://grepcode.com/file/repo1.maven.org$maven2@org.aspectj$aspectjtools@1.6.6@org$aspectj$org$eclipse$jdt$internal$compiler$parser$Parser.java | 11:31 |
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| slonopotamus | oh, and downloaded esbox just silently exits without showing anything | 11:31 |
| Shapeshifter | it's raining case statements | 11:31 |
| RST38h | raster: Yes, it is good for Intel business, as poor idiots are fruitlessly trying to buy enough hardware to make eclipse run at usable speed | 11:32 |
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| raster | RST38h: as i said.. its totally awesome | 11:32 |
| raster | :) | 11:32 |
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| RST38h | slonopotamus: the whole thing has been a fail from the beginning, avoid it | 11:33 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, maemo? i know. | 11:33 |
| slonopotamus | but i need to run esbox somehow :/ | 11:34 |
| RST38h | no, the eclipse thing | 11:34 |
| raster | Shapeshifter: consume!!!!!! | 11:34 |
| pupnik | no keynsian paroles please | 11:34 |
| raster | wow | 11:34 |
| raster | consumePseudoTokens is awesome | 11:35 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, maemo didn't have to base esbox on eclpse | 11:35 |
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| RST38h | slono: "maemo" is a software platform, it does not make engineering decisions, or any decisions at all | 11:36 |
| RST38h | these are made by people | 11:37 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, you understood what i meant. | 11:37 |
| raster | RST38h: i write code to make decisions for me | 11:37 |
| raster | it normally involves rand() | 11:37 |
| raster | :) | 11:37 |
| Termana_n810 | Theres a lot of padantic people on Freenode tonight | 11:37 |
| RST38h | slono: Yes, and somewhere inside Maemo Devices there is a guy who has made a wrong decision | 11:37 |
| raster | his name is rand()y | 11:39 |
| raster | :) | 11:39 |
| Termana_n810 | lol | 11:39 |
| slonopotamus | raster, :D | 11:39 |
| asj_ | Termana_n810: dude, it's irc | 11:40 |
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| pupnik | hey raster hows tricks | 11:40 |
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| Termana_n810 | asj_ - thanks captain obvious :P I ment more than usual | 11:41 |
| pupnik | doing anything fun? | 11:41 |
| asj_ | Termana_n810: don't get pedantic on me | 11:41 |
| Termana_n810 | lol | 11:42 |
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| pupnik | 4:45 < dracflamloc_> anyone interested in making a linux build of this? http://code.google.com/p/wtfgame/ | 11:47 |
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| LiraNuna | Firefox mobile for N900? | 11:51 |
| pupnik | try it with a sentence LiraNuna | 11:51 |
| LiraNuna | haha | 11:52 |
| LiraNuna | well, I just read about Firefox mobile releasing for N900; | 11:52 |
| LiraNuna | anyone got thoughts/pics about it? | 11:52 |
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| RST38h | LiraNuna <-- kinda slow | 11:55 |
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| RST38h | not unlike Firefox mobile ... | 11:55 |
| LiraNuna | :< | 11:56 |
| LiraNuna | <RST38h> not unlike Firefox mobile ... | 11:56 |
| LiraNuna | is that double negative? | 11:56 |
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| slonopotamus | hehe | 11:57 |
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| crashanddie | LiraNuna: well, it has "not", and has a word that negates its meaning by prepending "un" | 11:58 |
| crashanddie | LiraNuna: what do you think? | 11:58 |
| LiraNuna | I'm thinking there's a language barrier here | 11:58 |
| RST38h | yeah right | 11:59 |
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| LiraNuna | :( | 12:00 |
| crashanddie | ~RST38h++ | 12:00 |
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| wazd_e63 | Moaning all | 12:09 |
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| aquatix | good moaning | 12:19 |
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| wazd_e63 | Aquatix: heya | 12:28 |
| aquatix | hey wazd_e63 :) | 12:29 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles @ MacPacInstall | 12:32 | |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles @ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=538516 | 12:33 | |
| povbot | Bug 538516: was not found. | 12:33 |
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| embedded | Hi all | 12:35 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: wow | 12:35 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: and here my gf is still waiting for her device to arrive :) | 12:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | well, i think qa is waiting for approval to send the check | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | one would hope they'd get a slight discount for that volume... | 12:38 |
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| Stskeeps | they do budgets in bugzilla? | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | approvals yes | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | generally individual desktop purchases are company confidential, but tracked in bugzilla | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i presume that budgets aren't in bugzilla | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | (there are real bugs like "i need a new desktop" or "i need a new laptop") | 12:41 |
| Termana_n810 | One would think "needing more devices" isn't exactly a bug | 12:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | Termana_n810: the lack of those devices blocks other bugs | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | and as such, it needs to be represented in the bug framework | 12:44 |
| Termana_n810 | timeless_mbp, heh - whatever makes everyone happy | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | it also enables transparency | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | it's much nicer than how most corporations work :) | 12:45 |
| aquatix | at least it enhances the openness | 12:47 |
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| embedded | Is there some Maemo expert here? | 12:51 |
| timeless_mbp | nah, we killed them all | 12:53 |
| Termana_n810 | embedded, your talking in the Maemo channel, theres a lot of them here -.- | 12:53 |
| embedded | eheh, but no one answer :) | 12:54 |
| Termana_n810 | embedded - because you haven't asked anything | 12:54 |
| embedded | who knows how to create a .desktop shortcut file to run an app from the osso-xterm as root? | 12:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | well, you can't quite do that | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you can add a file to /etc/sudoers.d/ for your thing | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | and in postinstall you can run update-sudoers | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you can then have a .desktop shortcut which asks xterm to use sudo to call your special thing | 12:58 |
| embedded | how to do this last thing? | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30808 | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | osso xterm can't be asked to run other things | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | s/'t/ | 13:01 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 13:01 | |
| timeless_mbp | i suspect there are better answers for it in the #maemo logs | 13:01 |
| embedded | so no chances to do that? | 13:02 |
| asj_ | embedded: what do you want to run? | 13:02 |
| embedded | an app I ported which makes use of ncurses | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | embedded: it's definitely possible | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | the documentation is just scarce :) | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a sunday, i'd suggest you search through the irc logs and ask again in +8, +16, +24 hrs | 13:04 |
| asj_ | why are people who ask for help so secrative? | 13:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | good question | 13:04 |
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| asj_ | Linux egon 2.6.31-19-generic #56-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 01:26:53 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux | 13:06 |
| asj_ | lol, oops | 13:06 |
| asj_ | bad cut&paste | 13:06 |
| embedded | in practice I found somewhere on the net to run : "echo /<path_to_your_app> | sudo gainroot" | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | that shouldn't work anymore | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | people decided that it'd be dangerous | 13:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | using sudoers.d as i instructed is the correct way (™) | 13:07 |
| embedded | (™) ehehe :D | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | my irc client is too clever for me | 13:08 |
| embedded | timeless_mbp: I'll try your way and I'll be back to you with results, I hope good :) | 13:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | sudoers definitely works, i use it | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | the xterm side of things is definitely doable, other people do it | 13:09 |
| * timeless_mbp just isn't amongst them | 13:09 | |
| embedded | the bluemaemo package seems to contain a good example to do that | 13:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | -+ | 13:13 |
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| sejo | is there a switch for openssh? it drains my battery (even when in offline mode) | 13:28 |
| RST38h | really? | 13:29 |
| sejo | yes each night I set it to offline mode and since I installed Dropbear ssh server after 7 hours sleed the battery is dead | 13:30 |
| RST38h | Ah, Dropbear... | 13:30 |
| RST38h | Uninstall Dropbear. Install OpenSSH. | 13:30 |
| jebba | go for regular openssh | 13:30 |
| sejo | is the openssh better? | 13:30 |
| sejo | k | 13:31 |
| RST38h | it does not drain batteries at least | 13:31 |
| jebba | it doesnt drain battery at least not as far as i've seen | 13:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | me too | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | idle unless used | 13:33 |
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| sejo | also is there a website where I can see the themes for the n900 don't like to install them one by one | 13:36 |
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| Chiku | does gmail support push email ? | 13:41 |
| Chiku | and is it possible to setup on maemo? | 13:41 |
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| djkrikke | I've been charging my n900 this night (while powered off). There was a green notification light (I suppose meaning charged). But when I booted the device, I only got 86% battery | 14:03 |
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| djkrikke | Is this normal behavior? | 14:04 |
| Milo- | aw bloody heck | 14:05 |
| Milo- | I kind of unpromoted myself from my own garage project : | 14:06 |
| Milo- | :D | 14:06 |
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| djkrikke | nice one Milo- | 14:06 |
| Milo- | who should I ask to promote me back as admin? :P | 14:06 |
| Milo- | I am the only member in that project :D | 14:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | djkrikke: the battery meter is somewhat broken | 14:10 |
| djkrikke | SpeedEvil, you mean, the percentage monitor? | 14:11 |
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| Shapeshifter | djkrikke: the place where all battery meters get their info from (hal and stuff) | 14:13 |
| djkrikke | Shapeshifter: I see | 14:13 |
| djkrikke | so what you say is that my battery actually is charged | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 14:14 |
| djkrikke | but the device just doesn't know it ^^ | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | It does - it's just the reporting to userspace of this sucks | 14:14 |
| Kusk | I have this problem with a full rootfs. I have seen that alot have an /opt about the size of 2GB. But I dont have any? Anyone know why? | 14:14 |
| djkrikke | SpeedEvil, but doesn't the device use this stats to know when It has to warn for low battery level? So in my case it will tell me low battery while it even isn't less then 20%? | 14:15 |
| raster | why maemo just doesnt use your normal every day /sys/class/power_supply api to report stuff... beats me | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Kusk: sync - the fs doesn't automatically reclaim space. If you've installed lots of apps early on - you might uninstall them and reinstall | 14:16 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: hey hey :) | 14:16 |
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| Kusk | SpeedEvil: But isnt there a seperate partition mounted as /opt? | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | nop | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | e | 14:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | opt is in /home | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | ls -ld /opt | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | does df | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | show several lines with 'opt' in them? | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Or du /upt | 14:19 |
| SpeedEvil | opt | 14:19 |
| SpeedEvil | here that shows 390M | 14:19 |
| Kusk | Nope, that is the mydocs(27gb) and rootfs(227mb) and the small tmp/dev/run/shm | 14:20 |
| pupnik | nice, web and irc and podcasts is going to drain the battery in 6 hours | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | have you been messing with partitioning? | 14:21 |
| * RST38h wonders what "Search" feature in Torrent clients is for. It no longer searches anything. | 14:21 | |
| Kusk | Well python is mounted at opt/mymaemo, but that is in rootfs since it has the same size as root(227mb) | 14:21 |
| Kusk | SpeedEvil: Nope | 14:21 |
| djkrikke | pupnik, how do you know? :) | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | afk | 14:21 |
| pupnik | batt down at 20 pct | 14:22 |
| pupnik | 10:3 | 14:22 |
| pupnik | 10:30 to 13:22 | 14:22 |
| djkrikke | that's pretty fast | 14:23 |
| djkrikke | how did you manage to do that? | 14:23 |
| pupnik | running podcasts, irc, occasional web browsing | 14:24 |
| djkrikke | I see. Damn, 6 hours really sucks | 14:24 |
| raster | Kusk: no. /opt is a symlink to /home/opt | 14:24 |
| raster | and /home is a 2g partition | 14:24 |
| Kusk | Well I dont have an home partition | 14:25 |
| raster | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# ls -l / | 14:25 |
| raster | ... | 14:25 |
| raster | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Oct 30 22:36 opt -> /home/opt | 14:25 |
| raster | Nokia-N900-42-11:~# df -h | 14:25 |
| raster | ... | 14:25 |
| raster | /dev/mmcblk0p2 2.0G 377.2M 1.5G 20% /home | 14:25 |
| pupnik | 6 would be a miracle. ill let it run out djkrikke | 14:25 |
| raster | thats standard maemo setup for n900 | 14:25 |
| djkrikke | How is it possible that it drains so fast, pupnik? | 14:25 |
| raster | djkrikke: cpu is always on | 14:26 |
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| raster | if u have irc on... | 14:26 |
| djkrikke | True, but playing music and being on irc doesn't drain other phones that fast | 14:26 |
| raster | err in my experience it does | 14:26 |
| pupnik | well mp3 playback takes about 2x the battery it needs. i will try to release a player soon that halves that | 14:27 |
| raster | u'll get about 8 - maybee 10hrs out of a g1 playing music with screen off | 14:27 |
| pupnik | oh of course screen takes a lot | 14:27 |
| pupnik | but the 1200 mah batt is also too small by half | 14:28 |
| raster | it is relatively small given the screen size | 14:28 |
| raster | and cpu | 14:28 |
| pupnik | yep | 14:29 |
| raster | (and wifi.. and 3g and...) | 14:29 |
| raster | nbut its not tiiiny | 14:29 |
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| raster | its not generous - thats for sure | 14:29 |
| raster | given the actual physical size of the n900 tho - the battery is weenie | 14:29 |
| raster | weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenie | 14:29 |
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| pupnik | lets just say it is better than government shite | 14:30 |
| djkrikke | raster, indeed. Like those dell pc's have slices, I hoped someone invented a slice or something :) | 14:31 |
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| Kusk | raster: This is the output from df -h http://throwingapples.com/tmp/Screenshot-20100228-132402.jpg | 14:33 |
| Kusk | Could it be that there is a home partition somewhere, that havn't been mounted? | 14:34 |
| raster | this thing here as a 1500mah battery - and it sscreen wil eat much less power than the n900 - and its markedly thinner - pushing on almost half the tickness | 14:34 |
| raster | the n900 just is a very bulky device with a weenie battery :) | 14:34 |
| raster | Kusk: have u plugged into usb - mass storage mode? | 14:35 |
| Kusk | raster: Nope, not at the time I took the screenshot | 14:35 |
| raster | no idesa where your /home went | 14:35 |
| raster | but there should be a /home partition | 14:35 |
| raster | what does fstab say? | 14:36 |
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| Kusk | Well in the fstab there is an /home partition | 14:37 |
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| raster | try mount it | 14:37 |
| raster | mount /homre | 14:37 |
| raster | mount /home | 14:37 |
| raster | mines mounted and swinging its nuts around as it should | 14:37 |
| Kusk | Mount: mounting /dev /mmcblk0p2 on /home failed: Invalied argument | 14:38 |
| raster | > | 14:38 |
| raster | ? | 14:38 |
| raster | eh? | 14:38 |
| raster | whats fstab say? | 14:39 |
| raster | /dev/mmcblk0p2 /home ext3 rw,noatime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback 0 0 | 14:39 |
| raster | thats the default | 14:39 |
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| Kusk | Its the same here | 14:39 |
| Kusk | Could it be a faulty partition? | 14:40 |
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| raster | dunno | 14:48 |
| raster | smells wrong | 14:48 |
| raster | dmesg? | 14:48 |
| raster | there has to be more than "invalid argument" | 14:48 |
| raster | kernel bitching... | 14:48 |
| raster | something | 14:48 |
| djkrikke | raster, perhaps you know, does maemo also use the hal battery info for giving low battery warning? | 14:48 |
| raster | djkrikke: dunno. i DO know there is on standard kernel interface for battery tho | 14:49 |
| raster | they did some weird shit of their own | 14:49 |
| djkrikke | raster, because when the monitorring goes wrong, the battery may not be empty while maemo says I have to charge | 14:49 |
| Vanadis | Is anybody converting movies with Super 2010 to their N900? | 14:50 |
| Vanadis | if yes, what are your settings? | 14:50 |
| raster | sams as n810, n800, n7700 - no desire to follow standards there :( | 14:50 |
| TomaszD | Vanadis, use Handbrake | 14:52 |
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| RST38h | moo wazd | 14:53 |
| TomaszD | Vanadis, get the Handbrake profiles from here http://wiki.maemo.org/Video_Encoding_Basic_Guide and you're set | 14:53 |
| Vanadis | TomaszD, thx | 14:53 |
| pupnik | TY TomaszD | 14:54 |
| TomaszD | np | 14:54 |
| pupnik | gpodder is one of the greatest apps for maemo | 14:55 |
| TomaszD | indeed it its | 14:55 |
| TomaszD | *it is | 14:55 |
| TomaszD | I can even excuse its long start-up time | 14:56 |
| pupnik | same | 14:56 |
| TomaszD | thp for president, I've always said | 14:56 |
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| zaheerm | yes gpodder is awesome | 14:56 |
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| pupnik | any favorite feeds? | 14:57 |
| TomaszD | many from the TWiT network, like FLOSS Weekly and Security Now! | 14:57 |
| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/28/ides_versus_the_people/ | 14:57 |
| RST38h | hehe | 14:57 |
| TomaszD | I also sometimes listen to those assholes from engadget as they make sense from time to time | 14:58 |
| RST38h | We have finally got to the point where command line is easier to learn than IDE tools. Perfect. | 14:58 |
| TomaszD | pupnik, yours? | 14:58 |
| Kusk | As far as I can see, dmesg doesn't mention the partition at all http://throwingapples.com/tmp/dmesg.txt | 14:59 |
| pupnik | deutsche bank reaearch, mises.org, peter schiff | 14:59 |
| TomaszD | quite specialized stuff I see | 15:00 |
| TomaszD | not that mine isn't, in a way | 15:00 |
| pupnik | the economy is relevant to my interests | 15:01 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 15:01 |
| Arif_ | this is weird | 15:01 |
| RST38h | pupnik: can you do something about economy? =) | 15:01 |
| Arif_ | I woke up and my battery is 1/4th full | 15:01 |
| Arif_ | ;P | 15:01 |
| Arif_ | I unplugged it before I went to sleep | 15:02 |
| Arif_ | I think I have a battery problem! | 15:02 |
| TomaszD | or you slept for 2 days | 15:02 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 15:02 |
| Arif_ | it wasn't connected to anything either | 15:03 |
| TomaszD | so you slept for 5 days | 15:03 |
| TomaszD | there are those new fancy battery meters available | 15:03 |
| TomaszD | maybe you should check them out | 15:03 |
| Arif_ | I should | 15:04 |
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| Arif_ | Nokia should make better batteries! | 15:04 |
| TomaszD | I don't think they ever made any themselves | 15:04 |
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| Arif_ | they should buy better batteries then | 15:05 |
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| TomaszD | there is only so much you can do with the available physics | 15:05 |
| TomaszD | they could be a bit smaller and lighter if they were LiPo | 15:06 |
| TomaszD | but not much else they can do | 15:06 |
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| Arif_ | inventing something better can't be that hard! | 15:06 |
| djkrikke | just use slices | 15:07 |
| djkrikke | like on laptops | 15:07 |
| djkrikke | so you can attach a battery that fits perfectly | 15:07 |
| djkrikke | without ever having to open the back cover | 15:07 |
| TomaszD | it can be, you're already carrying a potential bomb in your phone if it wasn't for the electronic charging circuits | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Nuclear batteries | 15:08 |
| RST38h | Nice, warm, radiant nuclear batteries | 15:08 |
| RST38h | Imagine puncturing one of those | 15:08 |
| TomaszD | nothing much would happen | 15:08 |
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| RST38h | Not even a bunny attack? | 15:09 |
| RST38h | bunny people, I mean | 15:09 |
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| TomaszD | not sure | 15:09 |
| RST38h | "If you saw a digital image of yourself running on a virtual treadmill, would you feel like going to the gym? Probably so, according to a Stanford study showing that personalized avatars can motivate people to exercise and eat right. " | 15:10 |
| redeeman | haha yeah right | 15:10 |
| redeeman | no personalized avatars can make me stop sitting like a fat guy in my chair, and eating bacon | 15:10 |
| * RST38h goes over possible further experiments. Windows. Toilet bowls. Powered wires. | 15:11 | |
| TomaszD | actually, I saw a really cool presentation about something like this, let me try digging it out | 15:11 |
| frals | anyone here use fMMS? does anyone find it confusing that the "New MMS"-button got the small envelope icon next to the text? ie thinking its for sending SMS in "Conversations" and not MMS? | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Why would anyone need to send MMS nowadays? | 15:13 |
| TomaszD | can't find it | 15:13 |
| * RST38h hides again | 15:13 | |
| frals | http://mms.frals.se/mainview.png for reference | 15:13 |
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| djkrikke | Hmm, somebody knows how to get powertop? Can't find it in the repo's (extras, extras-testing) and isn't on the device either | 15:14 |
| TomaszD | frals, I don't think it's that confusing | 15:14 |
| RST38h | frals: looks ok to me but if you feel like changing it, an envelope with a photo sticking out would probably do | 15:14 |
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| TomaszD | RST38h speaks the truth | 15:14 |
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| frals | no i think its perfectly clear, got a user complaining because he have closed the application because he thought he was in conversations... :P | 15:16 |
| villager | djkrikke: it's on my device, in /sbin, as you need root... what firmware do you have? perhaps you have to get someone with it to send it to you | 15:16 |
| djkrikke | let me check, hold on | 15:16 |
| frals | but could probably change the icon, cheers :) | 15:16 |
| djkrikke | ls /sbin | grep powertop returns nothing | 15:17 |
| RST38h | frals: screw him. | 15:17 |
| djkrikke | so probably not included in my firmware | 15:17 |
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| Kusk | Could anybody upload an txt file with the output of sfdisk -l on their N900? | 15:17 |
| frals | RST38h: :) sticking to what i heard somewhere... "unless 80% of the users complain, its fine" ;D | 15:18 |
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| Arif_ | people use MMS? | 15:18 |
| Arif_ | o.o | 15:18 |
| villager | djkrikke: not sure where I got it from, pretty sure it was on the device... wonder if it might be included in fremantle sdk tools, perhaps | 15:18 |
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| djkrikke | looks like some people on the maemo forum uploaded the binary | 15:19 |
| djkrikke | works | 15:19 |
| villager | djkrikke: anyway you might have to find someone who has copied it off-device | 15:19 |
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| djkrikke | ssh server on the device is just so wicked :) | 15:20 |
| frals | any way to get download statistics from -devel or do you have to add a product on maemo.org/downloads to get # of downloads? | 15:23 |
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| djkrikke | is it actually possible to underclock the n900 cpu? | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | it's undercocked anyway | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | it goes to 250MHz | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | and also turns off | 15:28 |
| djkrikke | hmm, but wouldn't it be good to clock it at 250mhz max to get more battery life? | 15:28 |
| lcuk | djkrikke, false economy sometimes because if you have the cpu slower you may have to keep other components active for longer | 15:29 |
| lcuk | but, yes you can try it | 15:29 |
| djkrikke | yes indeed, it is more complex than it seems | 15:29 |
| lcuk | i cant remember the specifics off hand (had no coffee yet) | 15:30 |
| djkrikke | hehe | 15:30 |
| RST38h | djkrikke: maybe it makes more sense to run powertop and analyze what programs in your n900 prevent cpu from getting into power-saving states? | 15:30 |
| lcuk | moo RST38h | 15:30 |
| * RST38h moos at lcuk evilly | 15:30 | |
| villager | djkrikke: most of the time, capping it at 250MHz will reduce battery life | 15:30 |
| djkrikke | RST38h, I ran powertop, but "tick_nohz_restart_sched_tick" isnt a program I guess | 15:31 |
| RST38h | lcuk: ok, I ordered bh-905. The only two complaints I have found are the loose fit and the price | 15:31 |
| lcuk | cool | 15:31 |
| RST38h | lcuk: With the second complaint mostly addressed by Amazon ($199) | 15:31 |
| lcuk | hey, i encountered another batch of stuff in that wikidot site last night | 15:31 |
| RST38h | djkrikke: I kinda doubt you interpreted powertop output correctly :) | 15:32 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The SCP site? :) | 15:32 |
| lcuk | same domain, different arg | 15:32 |
| villager | djkrikke: the power difference between 250 and 600 is often less than the power savings you get by making stuff finish faster and then go to idle, turning the cpu off | 15:32 |
| djkrikke | villager, makes sense indeed | 15:32 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Wikidot provides hosting for several wikis | 15:33 |
| lcuk | indeed | 15:33 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Have you seen the mad chemist blog I have found? | 15:33 |
| lcuk | no? | 15:33 |
| lcuk | this was slender-man related stuff | 15:33 |
| RST38h | lcuk: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/ enjoy | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Pretty much like SCP, just real | 15:34 |
| lcuk | cant read yet, E:NOCOFFEE | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | "The straight liquid must really be a treat, but I've never seen it in that form, and would only wish to through binoculars." | 15:38 |
| pupnik | hilsrious RST38h | 15:40 |
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| PBeck | hi | 15:40 |
| lcuk | hi PBeck | 15:41 |
| pupnik | anyone who has blown up a lab bench, raise hand | 15:41 |
| pupnik | o/ ;) | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | a whole bench? | 15:41 |
| pupnik | well no just some glassware | 15:42 |
| fnordianslip | set fire to every sink in the lab at the same time :) | 15:42 |
| lcuk | fnordianslip, thats quite classy | 15:42 |
| lcuk | how did you manage that | 15:42 |
| fnordianslip | i was impressed. it was with toluene | 15:42 |
| fnordianslip | burning toluene, actually | 15:43 |
| pupnik | dumped it in sink? | 15:43 |
| fnordianslip | i was just trying to get rid of it | 15:43 |
| pupnik | :P | 15:43 |
| fnordianslip | some of the sinks were near curtains :( | 15:44 |
| Kusk | Anyone here willing to help me with finding the default start and end cylinder number for the mmcblk0p2 partition? | 15:45 |
| zerojay | wtf | 15:45 |
| Kusk | And the default block number? | 15:45 |
| PBeck | how can i change hildon.touchselector to scroll horizontal and vertical? I script in python | 15:45 |
| villager | Kusk: why don't you just sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 | 15:47 |
| Kusk | villager: Because I found https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?RepartitionInstructions&id=1382&type=g :-) | 15:48 |
| villager | Kusk: oh, you've already wiped the partition? | 15:49 |
| Kusk | yes | 15:49 |
| villager | Kusk: ok, well it looks like the numbers are listed there | 15:50 |
| TomaszD | woo, new gpodder available | 15:51 |
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| villager | Kusk: well, my p2 starts and ends one cylinder earlier than that page says, but anyway | 15:52 |
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| Kusk | villager: Yeah, but it seems that I'm royally screwed. When I try to create an new partition with mkfs.ext3 on /dev/mmcblk0p2 it says: Unknown code ____ 255 while trying to create journal | 15:54 |
| villager | Kusk: you've rebooted I guess? | 15:55 |
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| Kusk | Yes, I deleted the partition in fdisk, rebooted, created it again with fdisk, rebooted, and then ran mkfs.ext3 on mmcblk0p2 | 15:56 |
| satmd | does it work with ext2? | 15:57 |
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| villager | well, I haven't repartitioned my phone, only PCs (where I've never seen that)... so not sure if I can help | 15:57 |
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| satmd | because maybe you can make a ext2 then tune2fs | 15:57 |
| SpeedEvil | does mext2 work? | 15:58 |
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| Kusk | Hmm, it created the ext2 partition without any problems | 16:00 |
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| Kusk | So what should I do with tune2fs? | 16:01 |
| SpeedEvil | well - you can't tune a fish. | 16:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | See man tune2fs | 16:01 |
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| Kusk | Or can I just leave the partition, change fstab to mount it as ext2 instead of the original ext3? | 16:01 |
| villager | Kusk: tune2fs -j /dev/filesystem, as I recall | 16:01 |
| villager | where filesystem is the mmcblk of course | 16:02 |
| Kusk | Hmm, well that gave the same "Unknown code ____ 255" error | 16:02 |
| villager | the -j option effectively converts from ext2 to ext3 | 16:02 |
| villager | weird | 16:03 |
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| villager | Kusk: the partition isn't in use or anything? | 16:06 |
| Kusk | I dont think so. | 16:06 |
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| Kusk | So I changed fstab to mount 0p2 as ext2. That just gave the "Invalid argument" error at mount /home | 16:07 |
| villager | does dmesg say anything? | 16:08 |
| Kusk | http://throwingapples.com/tmp/dmesg.txt | 16:08 |
| Kusk | Not as far as I can see | 16:08 |
| villager | looks like not | 16:09 |
| villager | what does the partitioning look like now? | 16:09 |
| Kusk | The same as before | 16:09 |
| Kusk | All the partitions is there, but not the /home partition | 16:10 |
| villager | can you show the fdisk/sfdisk output? | 16:10 |
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| Kusk | http://throwingapples.com/tmp/sfdisk.txt | 16:14 |
| * lcuk needs a pot of undo for real paper | 16:15 | |
| * SpeedEvil passes lcuk a blue-grey painted police box. | 16:15 | |
| lcuk | ty, but its sharp edges rip the paper when i rub it on it | 16:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Kusk: ping cehteh ! | 16:19 |
| villager | Kusk: if you're desperate, I guess it might be worth trying to wipe the partition with dd before doing mkfs again | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Kusk: read chanlog 9..15h ago | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Kusk: fstab is generated, won't prolly survive reboot | 16:22 |
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| Kusk | DocScrutinizer: Well spank me and call me polly! You were right! The partition is now mounted as home! | 16:26 |
| GAN900 | Ah, man, I love how Engadget is completely incapable of using MB/sec and Mbps properly | 16:26 |
| GAN900 | "MBps" is not an acceptable compromise. | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | TNpm | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | KWph | 16:29 |
| t-tan | Kusk: maybe the new page http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash can help? | 16:30 |
| jacekowski | that's why i never use abbreviations of megabytes and megabits | 16:30 |
| jacekowski | because i never remember if it's Mb or MB | 16:30 |
| jacekowski | and then some wanker came up with idea of havin 2 more units | 16:30 |
| jacekowski | Mib and MiB | 16:31 |
| Kusk | t-tan: Nope, it didn't help. But now I have mounted it as ext2 | 16:31 |
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| Kusk | I just need to find the best way to auto mount the partition as ext2 instead of ext3 at boot | 16:31 |
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| t-tan | Kusk: something must be seriously wrong with your device | 16:32 |
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| GAN900 | OK, is the Angry Birds level pack actually available? | 16:32 |
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| GAN900 | Showing "Item unavailable" here. | 16:32 |
| Kusk | yeah, proberly. The email client have never worked either | 16:32 |
| t-tan | Kusk: you could set the partitions to type 0, reboot with temporary /home on NAND, and recreate the partitions | 16:33 |
| villager | GAN900: think someone said yesterday that the paid content was pulled again | 16:33 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, MB/sec are the big kind. Mbps are the small ones. | 16:34 |
| GAN900 | villager, they figured out that patching apt was a dumb plan? | 16:34 |
| villager | GAN900: no idea | 16:34 |
| villager | possibly | 16:34 |
| GAN900 | Love it. | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | waah they tried to implement DRM in apt?? | 16:35 |
| TomaszD | they did? | 16:35 |
| TomaszD | all I see is that you can't install apps from Ovi using apt any longer | 16:36 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, no, they just patched it to lock out the Ovi stuff. | 16:36 |
| GAN900 | Somebody package up apt from PR1.1. ;) | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: even more stupid | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | ovi is supposed to stop supporting pre 1.2 roughly as soon as 1.2 ships | 16:37 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, it's highly entertaining however. | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | the goal is to get everyone to upgrade to 1.2 | 16:37 |
| timeless_mbp | even the annoying regional/operator variants | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: ack | 16:38 |
| Shapeshifter | does anyone actually care about ovi? | 16:38 |
| timeless_mbp | given that 1.2 will have a newer gecko | 16:38 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm quite happy w/ that | 16:38 |
| TomaszD | timeless_mbp, speed improvements? | 16:38 |
| lcuk | nice timeless :) | 16:38 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, is zooming usable yet? | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | They found the right person to kidnap to blackmail into flash speed improvements? | 16:39 |
| * GAN900 can't believe Nokia advertised zooming. | 16:39 | |
| jacekowski | is 1.2 released? | 16:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | GAN900: well-done zooming is a featurew | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: which is why it's odd that it's not everywhere | 16:39 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: i think in theory some version of gecko will include useful font kerning | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: the pdf browser needs some zoomy love | 16:39 |
| timeless_mbp | you won't get reflow w/o a keystroke iirc | 16:39 |
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| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, yeah, and Gecko's broken freaking font rendering makes any and all zooming useless. | 16:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | GAN900: supposedly that'l be fixed in some upgrade, i can't remember if i have a new enough gecko locally to be sure it's in our 1.2 | 16:41 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000 would know | 16:41 |
| villager | the reflow is crap too, if I want to fit the article text on the screen, not the webpage's huge left navigation bar | 16:41 |
| timeless_mbp | villager: greasemonkey.. | 16:41 |
| timeless_mbp | you're never going to get a particularly good algorithm for this w/o violating a constraint | 16:42 |
| timeless_mbp | the official primary constraint is that a page should look like it does on the desktop | 16:42 |
| timeless_mbp | w/ that constraint, zooming will never be particularly useful | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | impossible mission | 16:42 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm perfectly happy with ^i | 16:43 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 16:44 | |
| timeless_mbp | You are currently using 6971 MB (93%) of your 7428 MB. | 16:44 |
| * timeless_mbp is running out of space | 16:44 | |
| timeless_mbp | (and time) | 16:44 |
| pronto | i got the cpu load on my n900 to hit 15 yesterday =o | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | doing what? | 16:45 |
| pronto | scp | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | eh… just scp? | 16:45 |
| pronto | scp'd a 500mb or so file to it via wifi | 16:45 |
| pronto | yep | 16:45 |
| pronto | lol | 16:45 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 16:45 | |
| pronto | why? | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | well, the general theory of the load is 'number of waiting processes' | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | scp should be at most 2 processes | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | which means you somehow managed to bottleneck another dozen or so processes | 16:46 |
| pronto | i guess | 16:46 |
| pronto | later today i'll do it again, see if that happens again | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | the question is 'how would that happen'? | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice? | 16:47 |
| pronto | this time i'll be sure nothing else of mine is running, and just scp | 16:48 |
| jacekowski | 15 isn't too high | 16:48 |
| pronto | but as soon as the transfer was done, load went back to normal | 16:48 |
| pronto | 15 is really high O_o | 16:48 |
| jacekowski | not really | 16:48 |
| pronto | for a single cpu, one core, with no hyper threading it is | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh I don't give a shit on load. Power consumption, responsiveness - yeah. Not load | 16:49 |
| jacekowski | pronto: that depends on scheduler | 16:49 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, for a device that should have desktop-like response characteristics, it's way too much | 16:49 |
| pronto | well , when it was at 15 load, it was laggy has hell | 16:49 |
| jacekowski | pronto: staircase deadline scheduler can handle 90 or more | 16:49 |
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| jacekowski | pronto: and it's still responsive | 16:49 |
| pronto | well i'm talking about for the n900 :\ | 16:50 |
| jacekowski | similiar one | 16:50 |
| pronto | not some silly thing you know of | 16:50 |
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| jacekowski | current kernel scheduler is sort of similiar to staircase deadline | 16:50 |
| jacekowski | 15:49 < pronto> for a single cpu, one core, with no hyper threading it is | 16:51 |
| pronto | for a handheld device a load of 15 is way to high | 16:51 |
| TomaszD | I'm not sure if anyone cares, the fact of the matter is, desktop responsiveness under heavy I/O sucks | 16:52 |
| TomaszD | *heavy disk I/O | 16:52 |
| jacekowski | load avg should be smaller as you get more cpus | 16:52 |
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| jacekowski | TomaszD: yeah | 16:52 |
| lcuk | hell i bet mainframe performance under heavy load sucks | 16:52 |
| jacekowski | it's ussualy I/O that kills it all | 16:52 |
| jacekowski | not CPU | 16:52 |
| wolf^ | TomaszD, there were some improvements in 2.6.32 regarding that matter | 16:52 |
| TomaszD | the kernel is set for maximum I/O throughput, not responsiveness, look at how Windows throttles any disk activity down to make the desktop perform better | 16:53 |
| wolf^ | and that's the most stupid thing about linux :> | 16:53 |
| TomaszD | sound used to stutter in Linux under heavy I/O, now it's better, but still not perfect | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | still does | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | play a sound while installing something through the app manager | 16:53 |
| TomaszD | here it doesn't, but I think it has more to do with how powerful computers have become than anything else | 16:54 |
| SpeedEvil | n900 | 16:54 |
| TomaszD | ah, see | 16:54 |
| TomaszD | here it does the same | 16:54 |
| TomaszD | Kolivas still releases his patches | 16:55 |
| TomaszD | I wonder if they'd help on the n900 | 16:55 |
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| Shapeshifter | brainfuck scheduler :) if I had time to install it, I'd use it | 16:59 |
| villager | sound always stuttered when wormux was loading here... not sure if it's still the case, since I haven't tried after deciding I don't really know how to play... the dumb AI always beat me hands down, and now they've got a better AI... | 16:59 |
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| javispedro | morning | 17:04 |
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| t-tan | javispedro: good afternoon | 17:05 |
| lcuk | hey javispedro \o | 17:05 |
| * Shapeshifter played through day of the tentacle on his n900 yesterday :) | 17:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer | moin javispedro | 17:08 |
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| jo-erlend | can someone point me to some documents for beginning maemo development with python? | 17:13 |
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| jo-erlend | I think I'd prefer to use gtk+, since I'm also interested in gnome projects. | 17:15 |
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| lcuk | jo-erlend, afaik the pygtk documentation in general applies | 17:16 |
| javispedro | hm.. I much preferred the older fmradio interface. | 17:16 |
| lcuk | but there are some minor specifics for integrating with maemo on the maemo wiki i believe | 17:16 |
| javispedro | the new fmradio is too much appleish. | 17:16 |
| lcuk | javispedro, blog post or installed | 17:16 |
| crashanddie | A court ruled that a Russian man must pay more than 100,000 rubles ($3,330) for medical bills and damages to the parents of a girl he hit when he jumped from a window in a suicide attempt. The 7-year-old girl was in hospital for months after the man fell on her [...] | 17:16 |
| javispedro | installed | 17:16 |
| crashanddie | "Months in the hospital" for only 3 grand? Where the hell is that hospital??? | 17:17 |
| javispedro | in Russia. | 17:17 |
| crashanddie | good point | 17:17 |
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| crashanddie | javispedro: amazing how you made something very attractive much less attractive just by stating the obvious | 17:18 |
| javispedro | it's just as attractive as it was previously to me :) | 17:18 |
| Arif_ | who's attractive? | 17:18 |
| pronto | me | 17:19 |
| crashanddie | Arif_: Hayden Panetierre | 17:19 |
| Arif_ | o.O | 17:19 |
| Arif_ | blonde :( | 17:19 |
| * javispedro tries to remember which kind of bug made him create a testcase consisting in "int main() { return 2;; }" | 17:21 | |
| *** Woolly has joined #maemo | 17:21 | |
| crashanddie | javispedro: $_ always returns null? | 17:21 |
| javispedro | dunno -- not a bash script but a C++ program, and it doesnot even call the binary. | 17:22 |
| javispedro | well. *hits rm -rf key* | 17:22 |
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| arachnist | crashanddie: $_ is your previous last argument | 17:27 |
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| arachnist | crashanddie: at least in bash | 17:27 |
| arachnist | crashanddie: in csh it's your previous command | 17:27 |
| crashanddie | arachnist: highlight me once more when I'm in bed for something so futile, and I'll kick you | 17:27 |
| arachnist | crashanddie: i dare you ;) | 17:28 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 17:28 | |
| *** arachnist was kicked by crashanddie (shouldn't have) | 17:28 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 17:28 | |
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| javispedro | heh. | 17:28 |
| Arif_ | http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.php?pic=images/newspics/26feb10/4.jpg | 17:28 |
| Arif_ | heh | 17:28 |
| arachnist | now, that was childish | 17:28 |
| crashanddie | I'm not the one going around daring people to kick me | 17:29 |
| * Arif_ kicks crashanddie | 17:29 | |
| crashanddie | anyway, goodnight | 17:29 |
| SpeedEvil | niht | 17:29 |
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| javispedro | nite | 17:30 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, are you asleep yet? | 17:36 |
| lcuk | if not, i just wanted to say good night, have a great sleep | 17:36 |
| javispedro | you pinged him! | 17:37 |
| * crashanddie shuts down the fucking sound | 17:37 | |
| lcuk | thats a better solution | 17:37 |
| crashanddie | night | 17:38 |
| lcuk | \o | 17:38 |
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| Arif_ | hmm | 17:46 |
| Arif_ | who is this weird person on the forum talking about warez being bad | 17:46 |
| Arif_ | =D | 17:46 |
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| shinkamui | I can't believe Im saying this | 17:53 |
| shinkamui | but Im thinking about switching back to tmobile | 17:53 |
| shinkamui | looks like they have great 3g coverage in my area | 17:53 |
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| Arif_ | I'm on TMobile | 17:55 |
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| n00bmonk3y | ahaaaaaaa - got irc working... shocker | 17:56 |
| Arif_ | wow | 17:56 |
| Arif_ | you installed an iRC program! | 17:56 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol :) | 17:56 |
| n00bmonk3y | havnt used irc properly for at least 10 years.... | 17:57 |
| ptl | which IRC client? | 17:57 |
| ptl | lemme version you | 17:57 |
| n00bmonk3y | anyway... i need some clever people help :) - asking q's in the forums takes too lon glol | 17:57 |
| ptl | I'LL DISCOVER IT! | 17:57 |
| Arif_ | mIRC \o/ | 17:57 |
| * SpeedEvil is alsot-mobile(uk) | 17:57 | |
| javispedro | baah... so many interesting projects to tackle, so little time. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | also | 17:57 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol everyone is versioning me now | 17:57 |
| ptl | 13:09 CTCP VERSION reply from n00bmonk3y: mIRC v6.35 Khaled Mardam-Bey | 17:57 |
| ptl | mIRC??? | 17:57 |
| ptl | on the N900? | 17:58 |
| n00bmonk3y | I just wanted to get on here to get help | 17:58 |
| n00bmonk3y | not planning on marrying an irc client | 17:58 |
| n00bmonk3y | on my laptop lol | 17:58 |
| javispedro | that's the problem with irc -- you always end up married. | 17:58 |
| n00bmonk3y | n900 is next to me lol | 17:58 |
| javispedro | </weirdo logic> | 17:58 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol javis | 17:58 |
| ptl | for the N900 X-Chat is nice, although if you dig text clients, irssi is also available | 17:58 |
| Arif_ | guis ftw | 17:58 |
| lcuk | hiya n00bmonk3y | 17:59 |
| n00bmonk3y | anyway acan someone explain the postinst stuff for me?, i'm stuck! (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=549937#post549937) | 17:59 |
| n00bmonk3y | hey lcuk!! | 17:59 |
| n00bmonk3y | thanks for your help btw :) | 17:59 |
| lcuk | yw :) | 18:00 |
| * lcuk gets on with eating monster scooby snack style sandwich | 18:00 | |
| n00bmonk3y | lol | 18:00 |
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| n00bmonk3y | hmmm my qyestion has shut everyone up lol | 18:01 |
| * n00bmonk3y ponders | 18:01 | |
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| * n00bmonk3y remembers old irc commands, shocker | 18:01 | |
| * Arif_ yawns | 18:01 | |
| ptl | the concept is simple | 18:01 |
| ptl | rpm also has it | 18:02 |
| ptl | when installing or desinstalling a package, it runs scripts: | 18:02 |
| n00bmonk3y | yup got that! :D | 18:02 |
| n00bmonk3y | created the sudoers file.. | 18:02 |
| n00bmonk3y | put it in the suggested location :D | 18:02 |
| ptl | - before it is actually installed (that is, before its files get to their proper places), that's preinst | 18:02 |
| n00bmonk3y | now just need to know if i create postinst files? or do i just leave them | 18:02 |
| ptl | - after it is actually installed, postinst | 18:02 |
| n00bmonk3y | and my sudoers file is enough? | 18:02 |
| ptl | - before it is deinstalled, prerm | 18:03 |
| ptl | - after it is deinstalled, postrm | 18:03 |
| n00bmonk3y | hmmmm still doesnt explain what i need to do :P | 18:03 |
| ptl | it is nice to undo any changes you have made on deinstalling the programa (prerm and postrm scripts) | 18:03 |
| lcuk | to be safe i always include postapocalypse file | 18:04 |
| n00bmonk3y | ahhh gd point | 18:04 |
| ptl | it might be wise to read a good tutorial about package management for it, because I am not very good to explain that | 18:04 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol lcuk! | 18:04 |
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| n00bmonk3y | thats the prob ptl... so many tutorials, very hard to know what solution is for what method and to be used when..... | 18:04 |
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| lcuk | with qt being cross platform and not every system uses debian | 18:04 |
| lcuk | (ie meego..) | 18:05 |
| ptl | many tutorials? for apt you have the apt-howto | 18:05 |
| n00bmonk3y | good point | 18:05 |
| lcuk | i wonder if a qt native solution might be available | 18:05 |
| ptl | and for rpm there are a couple of good tutorials too | 18:05 |
| n00bmonk3y | well, i used autobuilder and i got my app in devel :) - i thought that was me done lol | 18:05 |
| lcuk | thats the thing | 18:05 |
| ptl | when I learned rpm, there was something called maximum rpm | 18:05 |
| lcuk | with qt you shouldnt care for debian or rpm and installshield or anything | 18:05 |
| n00bmonk3y | to be honest, i dont know enough about linux, i have sneaked this far in my pythoning without to much of it.... | 18:06 |
| javispedro | lcuk: currently you have to care. | 18:06 |
| javispedro | Nokia pointed that since they wanted you to care about .deb packaging & symbian packaging, they don't mind making you care about RPM packaging too :P | 18:06 |
| lcuk | then the paradigm fails and solutions sould be saught | 18:06 |
| n00bmonk3y | hmmm anyway back to the question..... | 18:07 |
| n00bmonk3y | I understand i need to run commands on install and uninstall | 18:07 |
| n00bmonk3y | do i create a postinst file? if so where do i put it? | 18:07 |
| javispedro | n00bmonk3y: I'm still suspicious why you'd need to run apt-get clean from your program :P | 18:07 |
| n00bmonk3y | javis - best not to ask lol | 18:07 |
| lcuk | n00bmonk3y, doesnt reboot work already | 18:07 |
| lcuk | why do you need to mess | 18:07 |
| n00bmonk3y | reboot works fine :D | 18:07 |
| lcuk | ie, i found reboot ! | 18:07 |
| n00bmonk3y | i was to run a script that saves n900 rootfs space :) (Moves icon folders etc etc) - needs root | 18:08 |
| lcuk | and, no adding apt-get to the user list isnt the right way | 18:08 |
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| n00bmonk3y | lcuk - moved the reboot button in the next version | 18:08 |
| lcuk | excellent | 18:09 |
| lcuk | as for space saving, there are other things in progress afaik :) | 18:09 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/debian/changelog | 18:09 |
| lcuk | open source ftw | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: hey, i used to have a reboot in my package :) | 18:09 |
| lcuk | was yours added on purpose tho! | 18:10 |
| n00bmonk3y | ;) | 18:10 |
| n00bmonk3y | anywy, even if someone else is doing it, doesnt stop me from wanting to do it also :D | 18:10 |
| lcuk | indeed | 18:10 |
| lcuk | did you know that the postinst script is run under root context | 18:11 |
| lcuk | ie, you dont need to add to sudoers | 18:11 |
| lcuk | if your action is one off and only needs to occur at install time | 18:11 |
| n00bmonk3y | have to admit i'm doing this slowly... but enoying the whole experience, even if 100 times for confusing then vb etc... just because learning resources are so hard to find! | 18:11 |
| lcuk | +100 | 18:11 |
| lcuk | how long have you been a vb developer? | 18:12 |
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| n00bmonk3y | lol thats an interesting one... but have done vb / asp etc on and off for 15 years..... | 18:12 |
| n00bmonk3y | (damn i'm getting old) | 18:12 |
| lcuk | heh i felt that at my 35 birthday a couple of weeks ago | 18:12 |
| * lcuk shudders | 18:12 | |
| n00bmonk3y | awwwwwww | 18:12 |
| Arif_ | awww | 18:13 |
| n00bmonk3y | 8 months till i go over the hill...... | 18:13 |
| Arif_ | you're more than twice my age....:P | 18:13 |
| lcuk | Arif_, and you should have twice the experience i do with linux! | 18:13 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol | 18:13 |
| Arif_ | apt-get install rtorrent | 18:13 |
| Arif_ | is all I need | 18:13 |
| Arif_ | :D | 18:13 |
| lcuk | timeless, which package? | 18:14 |
| lcuk | the languages one? | 18:14 |
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| benbrown | Hey guys, anyone know if there's a browser object I can use in an app to show html? I'm a bit new at this gtk/hildon lark | 18:14 |
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| n00bmonk3y | qwebview in qt i think? but i'm just as new :P | 18:15 |
| lcuk | n00bmonk3y, you see in that optify script i posted | 18:15 |
| lcuk | it has contents in the debian folder | 18:15 |
| n00bmonk3y | this one? http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify-boottime/blobs/master/debian/changelog | 18:15 |
| lcuk | when the debian package is built, if postinstall exists it is dragged into package | 18:15 |
| lcuk | yeah go back a level from there | 18:15 |
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| n00bmonk3y | ahhhh | 18:15 |
| n00bmonk3y | can see a debian folder | 18:15 |
| n00bmonk3y | changelog | 18:16 |
| n00bmonk3y | compat | 18:16 |
| n00bmonk3y | control | 18:16 |
| n00bmonk3y | copyright | 18:16 |
| n00bmonk3y | postinst | 18:16 |
| n00bmonk3y | rules | 18:16 |
| benbrown | hmm, not using qt | 18:16 |
| n00bmonk3y | gotcha!!! | 18:16 |
| lcuk | yeah, that package is a very simplistic script only one, but should allow you to see what you need | 18:16 |
| lcuk | timeless, incase you missed it | 18:16 |
| lcuk | timeless, which package? | 18:16 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: my string replacement | 18:16 |
| n00bmonk3y | yeah thats perfect! | 18:17 |
| lcuk | ahh yes, i can see why that needed | 18:17 |
| timeless_mbp | while i was having trouble w/ files being used w/o proper locking | 18:17 |
| n00bmonk3y | thanks Lcuk | 18:17 |
| lcuk | np again | 18:17 |
| timeless_mbp | i skip the reboot these days, but it doesn't work perfectly | 18:17 |
| timeless_mbp | locale swaps really do need reboots... | 18:17 |
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| lcuk | benbrown, ive seen a couple of gtk html widgets, im sure someone went over all of them in talk.maemo.org | 18:24 |
| * lcuk goes watching babylon 5 | 18:24 | |
| javispedro | ooh | 18:24 |
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| javispedro | me wants. it's been quite a lot of time since they last syndicated it here. | 18:24 |
| Arif_ | anyone know what user/bin/xorg does? | 18:24 |
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| javispedro | it's a virus! it shows windows and graphics stuff instead of command line prompts | 18:24 |
| lcuk | Arif_, i havent got a /user/bin/xorg | 18:25 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 18:25 |
| Arif_ | heh | 18:25 |
| javispedro | isn't it /usr | 18:25 |
| javispedro | ? | 18:25 |
| lcuk | ;) | 18:25 |
| Arif_ | could be | 18:25 |
| inz | dangerous virus, has infected almost every Linux installation | 18:25 |
| lcuk | for good reason! | 18:26 |
| Arif_ | I found out why my battery was 1/4th full when I woke up | 18:26 |
| lcuk | anyone who knows the console stuff is a witch | 18:26 |
| Arif_ | apparently recaller was running for 12 hours | 18:26 |
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| * lcuk gahs at media player date order lists and not seeing entire title of what i want to watch | 18:27 | |
| SWFu | Still no UK update. | 18:27 |
| * javispedro has fallen in love with mediaplayer now that all my albums have albumart | 18:27 | |
| lcuk | :) | 18:27 |
| * Arif_ has the feeling the media player was written in like 2 hours | 18:28 | |
| n00bmonk3y | w000p - just bought a book on pyqt :D | 18:30 |
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| Arif_ | what is this bought thing you talk about :p | 18:31 |
| n00bmonk3y | know its got old stuff in it, but hopefully will be a good reference - http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0132354187/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE | 18:31 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 18:32 |
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| Arif_ | the last app I bought was DVBViewer | 18:32 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol book, not app :P | 18:32 |
| Arif_ | it both involves giving money! | 18:32 |
| n00bmonk3y | good point :P | 18:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | ` | 18:33 |
| javispedro | ooh http://thesurrealist.co.uk/feedback | 18:34 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol! | 18:34 |
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| Arif_ | lol | 18:34 |
| n00bmonk3y | The item was peerless - genius! | 18:35 |
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| * Arif_ makes some of these comments and posts them to Ovi store | 18:36 | |
| derf | Be sure to use the phase, "Remarkably quotidian packaging." | 18:36 |
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| SWFu | is it possible on the n900 te get nokia messaging using wifi insted gprs? | 18:36 |
| SWFu | I can't see an option | 18:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | SWFu: um | 18:39 |
| timeless_mbp | afaik nokia messaging doesn't care | 18:39 |
| timeless_mbp | and will use your 'internet' connection | 18:39 |
| n00bmonk3y | Ooo lcuk - got the the front camera working on healthcheck! | 18:39 |
| timeless_mbp | however, i don't use nokia messaging | 18:39 |
| SWFu | only running gprs here, pretty anoying when trying to attachments | 18:39 |
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| SWFu | *send | 18:40 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol the back one isnt now lol | 18:41 |
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| Mandator | You can't use both camera at the same time | 18:45 |
| n00bmonk3y | yeah i know | 18:46 |
| n00bmonk3y | wohooo both working now :) | 18:46 |
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| Arif_ | hm | 18:48 |
| Arif_ | is it supposed to take ages to charge the phone over USB? | 18:48 |
| Mandator | from a cpu you mean ? | 18:49 |
| Arif_ | from the PC | 18:49 |
| Mandator | yeah | 18:49 |
| Arif_ | it's still charging after 3 hours | 18:49 |
| Mandator | wow | 18:49 |
| Arif_ | I have the feeling something is eating my battery :O | 18:49 |
| Mandator | nah USB charging is slow | 18:50 |
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| Mandator | check with Conky | 18:51 |
| Mandator | I meant for rogue application that is eating your battery | 18:52 |
| * Arif_ should | 18:52 | |
| javispedro | usb charging takes 5-6 hours here | 18:53 |
| Mandator | yeah | 18:53 |
| Mandator | it is slow | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | Arif_, USB is only 500mA | 18:53 |
| n00bmonk3y | w00p Healthcheck 0.5.1-1 on its way to autobuilder :) | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | The AC-10 is 1200 | 18:53 |
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| n00bmonk3y | lcuk - this one includes your button move ;) hehe - and the front camera option | 18:53 |
| Arif_ | that makes sense | 18:54 |
| Arif_ | it takes about 2+ hours to charge via the normal charger | 18:54 |
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| dov | Hello. Anyone here who has built c-python modules under scratchbox? I get the error message: /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy | 18:59 |
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| n00bmonk3y | w000p 0.5.1-1 in extras-devel :) | 19:01 |
| n00bmonk3y | sorry dov - no idea :( | 19:01 |
| pajp | did telepathy-msn-pecan just brake with the latest update? | 19:02 |
| dov | Got it. Did "python2.5 setup.py build" instead of "python setup.py build". | 19:02 |
| n00bmonk3y | hehe :) | 19:02 |
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| * dov is now going to check if his zoom-key disabling python module works on the N900. | 19:03 | |
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| n00bmonk3y | right off out :) - cheers for your help earlier everyone :D | 19:07 |
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| pupnik | i forgot who was asking but battery went from full at 10:30 to low battery warning at 16:55 | 19:12 |
| pupnik | worry 15:55 | 19:12 |
| pupnik | sorry | 19:12 |
| lcuk | pupnik, what were you running | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | full backlight, high CPU load, and maybe heavy UMTS traffic, I guess | 19:15 |
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| pupnik | irc, podcasts, opened perhaps 20 webpages | 19:15 |
| pupnik | wifi | 19:15 |
| pupnik | 3 bard backlight | 19:15 |
| Arif_ | just stream a tv channel | 19:15 |
| Arif_ | your battery will die in less than a hour | 19:15 |
| Arif_ | :> | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, some of those 20 pages might have flash | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | flash enabled or disabled? | 19:15 |
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| Arif_ | N900 seems to be hit and miss | 19:16 |
| Arif_ | =P | 19:16 |
| V13 | the fastest battery drain I've seen was when the thumbnailerd was stuck. | 19:17 |
| cehteh | eh hi ... | 19:17 |
| Arif_ | hai | 19:17 |
| V13 | (or was rescanning everything.. i'm not sure... I've >1GB photos in SD card) | 19:17 |
| Arif_ | V13, what about Quake 3 multiplayer over 3G on TV out | 19:18 |
| Arif_ | :D | 19:18 |
| Arif_ | with a bluetooth keyboard! | 19:18 |
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| pajp | anyone else has telepathy-msn-pecan installed? | 19:18 |
| Arif_ | and conversations set to show your location on MSN and Skype | 19:18 |
| Arif_ | I wonder how long it'll last that way | 19:18 |
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| pupnik | V13: could have had some thumbnailer lameness too. disabling it now | 19:20 |
| dov | If the N900 is connected to the powercord, can you use the phone "infinitely"? I'm in a situtation that when it is on it drains faster than it charges. :-( | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: flash! | 19:20 |
| pupnik | hard to believe dov | 19:20 |
| shamus | think i finaly curteled my 800's battery vampire som what as im curently getign about a day idle time with wifi on | 19:20 |
| pupnik | good | 19:21 |
| ShadowJK | dov, with the wall charger you wont be able to draw more power than it gives | 19:21 |
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| V13 | ShadowJK: famous last words? :) | 19:21 |
| ShadowJK | on USB when using N900 as USB modem, I've sometimes seen the voltage steadily inch downwards | 19:22 |
| shamus | stuck demions are batery killers | 19:22 |
| dov | Top doesn't show anything. | 19:22 |
| dov | Perhaps the charger is bad. I should try with the usb cable and see if it makes a difference. | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~tell ShadowJK about batteryfaq | 19:23 |
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| ShadowJK | eh, again? | 19:23 |
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| ShadowJK | what for.. | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | dropping voltage is a normal effect | 19:25 |
| cehteh | ah so | 19:25 |
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| lcuk | dov powercord or usb? | 19:26 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, well from ~4100 to ~3700 while connected to usb charging? :-) | 19:26 |
| lcuk | and what else is running | 19:26 |
| cehteh | ShadowJK: does it really charge? | 19:26 |
| dov | icuk: powercord | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: no, that's too much | 19:26 |
| ShadowJK | It started climbing up again once I closed the 2MBit/s video stream I had been watching :P | 19:26 |
| ShadowJK | (on my PC, with N900 as modem) | 19:26 |
| lcuk | dov sounds like something else is going on, tho the fastest way to charge is to turn off everything, usually its not so drastic | 19:27 |
| dov | icuk: It happened both when I was watching a "local" movie, but since then when the N900 was basically idle. | 19:27 |
| lcuk | does your cell signal fluctuate often | 19:27 |
| lcuk | ps, its L | 19:27 |
| dov | icuk: Nope. | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, someone posted the N900 schematics, if you still want them | 19:27 |
| dov | I installed battery eye now and will see how fast it charges in offline mode. | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: WHERE?? | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | knock yourself out http://rapidshare.com/files/357130766/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf | 19:28 |
| lcuk | dov, its likely something else is afoot | 19:28 |
| ShadowJK | dov: battery-eye and basically all the meters don't update during charge | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | "Service Schematics" | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | never thought I'd see these | 19:28 |
| dov | shadowjk: Right, but at least I'll get a snapshot at the beginning of the charging and at the end of the charging and can see how fast it charges. | 19:29 |
| ShadowJK | Some time after the battery is full, battery-eye and friends update to full :P | 19:29 |
| ShadowJK | It averages out to about 500mA charge rate empty to full | 19:29 |
| ShadowJK | (80 - 95% is very slow) | 19:29 |
| pupnik | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/27/internet_3_dot_0_policy/ us government asshole announces new era of internet regulation | 19:29 |
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| dov | shadowjk: That's the drain from the power cord? | 19:30 |
| dov | shadowjk: Do you know how much is the max drain from usb according to the usb spec? | 19:30 |
| ShadowJK | 500 | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, Venomrush found them, he's on tmo, seen the post on Nokia Users | 19:30 |
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| ShadowJK | rapidshare doesn't want to serve free users tonight :-( | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: thanks! | 19:31 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, I can happily reupload it for you :) | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yeah :-( | 19:31 |
| ShadowJK | dov, the charge starts out at 1200mA from the wall charger, as the battery gets fuller and fuller the rate is lowered and lowered, at probably 50-100mA charge rate the battery is then declared full | 19:32 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, do it :-) | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | reupping, if you want the link send me a /notice since I'm trafficsharing it :) | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | something's not right Upload speed: 20 KB/Sec, Time remaining: 4:32 minutes :/ | 19:32 |
| dov | So with a 1320 charger it should take roughly 2h. | 19:32 |
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| dov | That's not happening to me. Not even with the device off. | 19:33 |
| ShadowJK | dov, something like that yeah | 19:33 |
| lcuk | turn off wireless, shut down apps, turn screen off and you could do it faster | 19:33 |
| dov | s/1320 charger/1320mAh battery/ | 19:33 |
| * lcuk charges like that from laptop->n900 whilst travelling | 19:34 | |
| ShadowJK | dov, yeah i'd try usb from pc too if the wall charger isn't making sense | 19:35 |
| ShadowJK | or if you have an old nokia charger, try it with the included adapter (unless you're in the US in whcih case you didn't get an adapter) | 19:35 |
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| dov | Hmm... I have a broken Nokia power adapter cord. I could try to connect it to a ampere meter and see how much it draws when charging. | 19:35 |
| lcuk | are there any inductive charge plates for nokia phones | 19:36 |
| lcuk | that could be hacked and tried to use on our n900 | 19:36 |
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| Arif_ | lcuk make one! | 19:37 |
| Arif_ | and build a toothbrush into the N900 while you're at it | 19:37 |
| Arif_ | there's probably enough space to put a few liter of toothpaste somewhere in there anyway :D | 19:37 |
| lcuk | Arif_, nahh toothpaste is ugly | 19:38 |
| lcuk | security at airports dont like it when it oozes out | 19:38 |
| Arif_ | tea? | 19:38 |
| lcuk | hard enough trying to hide the bacon grill | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250583707300&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 | 19:38 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, there is one of those already under the screen | 19:39 |
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| lcuk | if you place a rasher of bacon on the open keyboard and slide it in | 19:39 |
| cehteh | hey did you noticed that you can pull the stylus 2/3 out while phoning for the classic antenna feel? :) | 19:39 |
| lcuk | a few minutes later it will be cooked | 19:39 |
| lcuk | theres even little trip channels | 19:39 |
| cehteh | ok it on the wrong side :P | 19:39 |
| Arif_ | cehteh I lost mine so no :( | 19:39 |
| cehteh | 6Eur ... | 19:39 |
| lcuk | cehteh, was just gonna say "classic mobile n00b holding phone wrong way | 19:40 |
| Arif_ | meh | 19:40 |
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| Arif_ | I thought of it | 19:40 |
| Arif_ | and €7 is too much for a pen :P | 19:40 |
| cehteh | yeah | 19:40 |
| Arif_ | I ordered an external charger instead | 19:40 |
| lcuk | especially one with no ink | 19:40 |
| Arif_ | and 2 batteries :P | 19:40 |
| Arif_ | I"ll just grow nails I guess | 19:40 |
| Arif_ | =D | 19:40 |
| * lcuk watches next babylon 5 episode | 19:41 | |
| Arif_ | on the N900? ;P | 19:41 |
| lcuk | yes actually | 19:41 |
| cehteh | ok .. i tinhk all restored now, did just the last bits, making MyDocs ext4 | 19:41 |
| cehteh | gonna reformat the uSD too | 19:41 |
| Arif_ | gotta love those downloaded XviDs \o/ | 19:41 |
| lcuk | Arif_, i used to watch things in a little window whilst still carrying on coding | 19:41 |
| lcuk | now i just use n900 | 19:42 |
| Arif_ | try watching it fullscreen | 19:42 |
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| lcuk | Arif_, dvd reencodes actually | 19:42 |
| Arif_ | that'll work too I guess | 19:42 |
| lcuk | and nahhh fullscreen is OTT | 19:42 |
| lcuk | ive got a pair of monitors | 19:42 |
| lcuk | and having movie on with volume == loud bings and bongs from os | 19:43 |
| lcuk | when doing stuff on other screen | 19:43 |
| * Arif_ has 100 GB of recorded stuff he still has to watch :O | 19:43 | |
| Arif_ | which probably equals to about 10 hours :P | 19:43 |
| lcuk | these eps are really encoded low | 19:43 |
| lcuk | i did them first for my 810 | 19:44 |
| lcuk | only 120mb per episode | 19:44 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 19:44 |
| Arif_ | these are direct satrips | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | GRRR | 19:44 |
| Arif_ | no encoding yet | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | someone with a RS premium account can send me a mail with that friggin file please? | 19:44 |
| Arif_ | what file | 19:44 |
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| Arif_ | are you downloading warez again :P | 19:46 |
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| AlMehdi | cehteh: did you feel any improvement with ext4? | 19:48 |
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| MohammadAG | Mediafire link for the schematics http://www.mediafire.com/file/mbvqetzw4gm/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf | 19:49 |
| MohammadAG | can anyone help me confirm something with MCE / the LEDs on the N900? | 19:50 |
| pupnik | ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg lets you disable indexing on battery. nice | 19:50 |
| Arif_ | indexing on battery? | 19:50 |
| Arif_ | so it won't index when the battery is <%20 or something? | 19:51 |
| MohammadAG | When the N900's light sensor is put under a strong light (sunlight should be enough), the LED's brightness goes down by a huge amount | 19:51 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 19:51 |
| Arif_ | I'd like to help you with that but we have no sun in .nl | 19:51 |
| lcuk | lol | 19:51 |
| fragment | MohammadAG: oh, I've been wondering why my leds are so dark | 19:51 |
| MohammadAG | lol any white light should do the same | 19:51 |
| microlith | Arif_: no, it disables indexing when on battery | 19:51 |
| Arif_ | oh | 19:52 |
| Arif_ | even better! | 19:52 |
| MohammadAG | I thought mine shorted or something | 19:52 |
| Arif_ | and you can't fix that? xD | 19:52 |
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| MohammadAG | restarted MCE but the LEDs didn't work, when I went home, the LED was working again | 19:52 |
| fragment | MohammadAG: led dark even when covering the light sensor | 19:52 |
| MohammadAG | dark as in? | 19:53 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 19:53 |
| MohammadAG | mine stops working under light | 19:53 |
| Arif_ | I found glow in the dark contact lenses | 19:53 |
| Arif_ | :D | 19:53 |
| * MohammadAG facepalms | 19:53 | |
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| fragment | MohammadAG: the charging led is normally bright orange. mine is sometimes barely noticeable green | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: PaulFertser: GAIA VBUS and VINTUSB1P5.OUT | 19:55 |
| MohammadAG | could be broken? | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | VBAT.USB VUSB.3P1 | 19:56 |
| pupnik | no indexing when running on battery Arif_ | 19:56 |
| fragment | MohammadAG: dunno, seems random. | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | so the good news: USB hostmode not completely dead yet | 19:57 |
| MohammadAG | :D | 19:57 |
| * dov managed to disable the volume-keys from python! | 19:58 | |
| pupnik | would help a lot to have a cable that didnt rip off the usb connector | 19:58 |
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| pupnik | You should all read E.M. Forsters "The Machine Stops" - short story about humanity sucked into an indoor-dwelling, internet addicted future humanity - written ca. 1900 | 20:02 |
| pupnik | http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html | 20:02 |
| ShadowJK | hah, the fuel gauge doesn't seem to be connected to any current sensors | 20:02 |
| ShadowJK | just as i thought | 20:02 |
| Arif_ | pupnik, welcome to the....present? | 20:02 |
| MohammadAG | pupnik, I was thinking of a battery cover that encloses a portable charger (extra battery), it plugs into the USB port to charge it and has a USB port so that you don't have to plug it in or remove it from the port itself when charging | 20:02 |
| MohammadAG | if you get what I mean | 20:02 |
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| ShadowJK | or wait, hm. | 20:03 |
| pupnik | 1909... | 20:03 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: shiny | 20:03 |
| MohammadAG | oh and since it will make it thicker, a large kickstand can be added | 20:03 |
| pupnik | MohammadAG: seen the mugen extended battery? | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | YOOH | 20:03 |
| MohammadAG | pupnik, yeah, the draft photos, the cover looks ugly, and it doesn't 'move' the USB port as I suggested :) | 20:03 |
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| pupnik | how would you attach a seperate usb? | 20:04 |
| Arif_ | MohammadAG, you want an even THICKER N900? | 20:04 |
| MohammadAG | pupnik, extender cable in the back cover | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: now for N4200 datasheet | 20:04 |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, it would make it thicker and longer :) | 20:04 |
| Arif_ | it's already a brick | 20:04 |
| Arif_ | ;P | 20:05 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: :) not up to reading schematics ATM :/ | 20:05 |
| joejoe | hi, i am trying to install SDK, but there are some errors (maybe it because of python 2.6.4 and qt 4.6.2) ... | 20:05 |
| joejoe | R N900? | 20:05 |
| pupnik | spare batteries and external charger for me | 20:05 |
| joejoe | $ sudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py | 20:05 |
| joejoe | [sudo] password for imlich: | 20:05 |
| joejoe | Traceback (most recent call last): | 20:05 |
| joejoe | File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 3764, in <module> | 20:05 |
| joejoe | main() | 20:05 |
| joejoe | File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 3753, in main | 20:05 |
| joejoe | wizard = InstallWizard() | 20:05 |
| joejoe | File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 3654, in __init__ | 20:05 |
| joejoe | self.setPage(PageIdNokiaBins, NokiaBinsPage()) | 20:05 |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, I bought it like that and I'm happy that it's a brick :p | 20:05 |
| joejoe | File "./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py", line 1768, in __init__ | 20:05 |
| joejoe | self.registerField(FNInstallNokiaApps, self.nokia_apps_checkbox, "checked", "toggled(bool)") | 20:05 |
| joejoe | TypeError: QWizardPage.registerField(QString, QWidget, str property=None, SIGNAL() changedSignal=0): argument 4 has unexpected type 'str' | 20:05 |
| joejoe | QProcess: Destroyed while process is still running. | 20:05 |
| MohammadAG | joejoe, pastebin :/ | 20:05 |
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| joejoe | MohammadAG, few lines, what ever. But, is there any solution? | 20:06 |
| MohammadAG | not that I know of, do you have Qt4 bindings installed? | 20:06 |
| MohammadAG | or pyQt4 IIRC | 20:06 |
| lcuk | an app which challenges the geekness of our devices http://maemo.org/packages/view/maegirls/ | 20:07 |
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| lcuk | either that or so we can know when our significant other becomes a werewolf | 20:08 |
| joejoe | i have package python-qt4 | 20:09 |
| benbrown | Anyone know how to make nice looking buttons with gtk+ on maemo? I've been trying to find it on the forums but my searches aren't pulling back anything useful | 20:10 |
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| microlith | hmm | 20:11 |
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| MohammadAG | pupnik, http://i49.tinypic.com/2rprayg.jpg | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG | if only there was a microUSB one | 20:12 |
| * dov has now managed to change VolumeDown and VolumeUp to PageUp and PageDown for his python etext reader. | 20:12 | |
| microlith | has anyone else looked at the schematic pdf and spotted serial/jtag outputs? | 20:13 |
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| MohammadAG | microlith, isn't there one behind the battery? as mentioned in the wiki page | 20:14 |
| microlith | right, there are contacts there | 20:14 |
| microlith | I'm trying to spot what they are hooked up to on the schematic | 20:14 |
| MohammadAG | serial-console - Enables the serial console (the serial port pins are next to the battery) and causes a shorter battery life. | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG | oh ok | 20:15 |
| microlith | oh? | 20:15 |
| nomis | mhm, it is funny how these omweather updates fail to solve my problems. | 20:16 |
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| * ShadowJK just ordered a mugen battery for n900, a few hours too late for the cheaper price :-( | 20:18 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | nomis: you haven't heard it's just the forecast for next 9 days updated via HAM? :-P | 20:18 |
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| b0unc3 | hello | 20:18 |
| nomis | DocScrutinizer: oh, I see!!1! | 20:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer warming uplaser printer. Got some schem to printout | 20:20 | |
| b0unc3 | can I use the icons in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/hildon for my maemo-app ? | 20:20 |
| shinkamui | ShadowJK, I MUST know how that works and looks | 20:20 |
| shinkamui | I really am thinking about getting one too | 20:21 |
| shinkamui | did they finally get rid of the concept drawing and show a real pic of the actual product? | 20:21 |
| ShadowJK | probably wont get it until end of march though | 20:21 |
| shinkamui | unfortunately im at work atm and mugens site is filtered by websense ;) | 20:21 |
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| dov | benbrown: Have you tried gtk themes for changing the buttons? | 20:22 |
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| ShadowJK | <strikethrough>We expect first shipment of N900XL batteries on March 1st.</strikethrough> We are re-designing the back cover to make it better and this causes a small delay. First shipment is expected on March 15. | 20:22 |
| Jaffa | ev'ning | 20:22 |
| benbrown | dov: no, I'm pretty new to this. You got any docs? | 20:23 |
| dov | benbrown: I gave a talk about gtk and perl a few years ago, but the idea is the same no matter what language you write in. See: http://gtk2-perl.sourceforge.net/doc/yapc-2004-perl-gtk2/slides.html | 20:24 |
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| * luke-jr ponders a componentized handheld design | 20:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: odd. CIR is indeed hooked to PWM, not CIR UART. | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 20:26 |
| luke-jr | think it'd waste too much space to put the SoC/RAM/etc in a card and install that in a LCD/keyboard/etc case? ;) | 20:26 |
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| benbrown | dov: any idea which themes come with maemo? | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: that's really another game now :-D | 20:27 |
| dov | Probably none except from the default maemo theme. | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: yeah - I'm just casually glancing at stuff not reading it in depth at the moment. Feeling horrible. | 20:28 |
| dov | benbrown: You should be able to install any theme e.g. from http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/ . | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: just printing it - for lecture during dinner | 20:29 |
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| dov | benbrown: It won't look like maemo anymore though. But it might be good for making a button "stand out". | 20:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer r5815? | 20:32 |
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| benbrown | hmm, that's not really what I want | 20:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer some sort of tvs I guess | 20:34 |
| benbrown | I have an app that uses hildon_button_new_with_text, but the buttons look flat. If you compare them with the buttons in the menus, or the Email client, they look a bit rubbish | 20:34 |
| shinkamui | ShadowJK, n000000000 | 20:36 |
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| shinkamui | well, still, that might be good | 20:36 |
| dov | benbrown: That's seems to be a "theming decision" in maemo. You can overwrite it (by styles, etc) but then your application will look different from the rest of the maemo applics, for good or for bad. | 20:36 |
| shinkamui | I hope they add a sliding door | 20:36 |
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| shinkamui | because the original design looked kinda crappy | 20:36 |
| shinkamui | imo | 20:36 |
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| ShadowJK | the original design is something someone drew in photoshop | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ESD | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | 18/30V | 20:38 |
| MohammadAG | The extended battery's cover breaks camerad/proximityd | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | bbl | 20:38 |
| MohammadAG | sorry, shortcutd not proximityd | 20:38 |
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| V13 | I just made another prog but I don't dare posting an announce in t.m.o. :-) | 20:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: N1322 ?? | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | incredible | 20:47 |
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| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, we haven't even seen any covers yet? | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: V1303 o.O | 20:49 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, the draft photo | 20:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: annoyingly, it can't be searched. | 20:49 |
| ShadowJK | the draft photo is useless :P | 20:50 |
| MohammadAG | it doesn't have a lens cover, so proximityd will always think the lens is open | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | evince rules | 20:50 |
| MohammadAG | or closed, assuming they forgot the black/white part | 20:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: much worse are the missing component names | 20:52 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: annoying, yeah | 20:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not even the biggest chips got any | 20:52 |
| Jef91 | Wow, so my n900 battery has tanked to half in less than 2 hours of usage | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | But stuff like partnumbers for the prox sensor or battery charge meter'd be nice | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | anyway. | 20:53 |
| * SpeedEvil goes to sleep. | 20:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer | not to mention things like N1301 which I know happens to be LP5523 | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | a nice annotated schem would be nice - but... | 20:54 |
| Lynoure | Would anyone of you have a need for a spare stylus for N800? | 20:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: g'nite | 20:54 |
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| Lynoure | I have one I'd gladly send to someone who needs it, as opposed to throwing it away | 20:55 |
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| ShadowJK | try the sales forum on tmo? | 20:58 |
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| Arif_ | Lynoure, is it the same as the N900's? :p | 21:02 |
| Lynoure | Arif_: not at all | 21:02 |
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| Arif_ | aw | 21:03 |
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| Lynoure | Arif_: otherwise I would give it to Iridian, who has made his a bit weatherworn. | 21:03 |
| Arif_ | I lost mine :( | 21:03 |
| Arif_ | and I'm not paying €7 for a new one | 21:03 |
| Arif_ | :D | 21:03 |
| Arif_ | oh | 21:04 |
| Arif_ | angry birds is on warez sites | 21:04 |
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| nixarMaemo | any idea why my n900 can see my f12 workstation in avahi browser but not the other way around? | 21:04 |
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| grobi | Hi, is somebody using a N900? | 21:10 |
| Arif_ | I am | 21:10 |
| Arif_ | kind of | 21:10 |
| wao | isn't this maemo channel? :S | 21:10 |
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| marmoute | grobi: typing from it. | 21:11 |
| grobi | When I am running Debian the (full) battery last for 1 1/2 hour. - Normal? | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | more like going to abuse it ;-P | 21:11 |
| luke-jr | grobi: probably | 21:12 |
| grobi | In CHroot of course | 21:12 |
| luke-jr | wao: never heard of N810, N800, and 770? | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the famous 770 cluste at garage | 21:13 |
| marmoute | grobi: must be something preventing the CPU to go to sleep | 21:15 |
| pupnik | nice how n900 survives sauna humidity | 21:16 |
| wao | luke-jr: well, that was just irony ofc | 21:16 |
| pupnik | you are serious grobi ? | 21:16 |
| flux | pupnik, however, not guaranteed it'll last for long period after that?-) | 21:16 |
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| maher | how do i change the font/background colors in modest? (I would like white text on black background) | 21:25 |
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| pupnik | that is hard to find support for | 21:28 |
| maher | pupnik: what? fix it for me now! | 21:29 |
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| pupnik | i like dark backgrounds too. but n900 goes outside too often for that | 21:30 |
| pupnik | try forcing dark colors on desktop firefox someday. some elements still insist on black text on blackbg | 21:31 |
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| maher | great - modest stores my imap passwords in plain text in its conf files | 21:36 |
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| arachnist | maher: most email clients and web browsers do either that, or very poor encryption | 21:38 |
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| pronto | aww adobe flash dosen't see the cameras | 21:41 |
| flux | pupnik, hey I did just that | 21:42 |
| flux | pupnik, then I wrote a greasemonkey script to set the background color of pages white.. | 21:42 |
| flux | (when I find buggy pages) | 21:42 |
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| pupnik | flux, you have a greasemonkey script that can force my firefox text to light color? | 21:44 |
| pupnik | should be famous | 21:45 |
| flux | pupnik, nope, it touches only the background, so it's still sometimes hard to see pages ;) | 21:45 |
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| jo-erlend | when developing applications for maemo and nokia n900, do I have to consider screen size much, or will the framework adjust it to fit a small size automatically? | 21:46 |
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| pupnik | if you develop for n900 specifically why wouldnt you optimize to 800x480 | 21:49 |
| V13 | jo-erlend: you've to have in mind that you can't fit a lot of things on the screen. | 21:50 |
| lcuk | jo-erlend, screen size is less of an issue than aspect ratio | 21:50 |
| lcuk | its easier to make a layout that works at 320*240 upto 800*480 and above but extremely difficult to use that same layout at 480*800 | 21:51 |
| lbt | next Summit discussion in #meego BTW... | 21:53 |
| jo-erlend | lcuk, oh, ok. Then I want to create one GUI for lanscape and another for portrait? | 21:54 |
| pupnik | pretty quiet lcuk | 21:54 |
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| Aranel | anyone knows where can I find HAM category icons? | 22:05 |
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| strcpy | hi everybody , | 22:09 |
| strcpy | annoying network lag (on SSH) while wifi is on it`s default power-saving mode. downloads also never seems to start in this mode. only after switching to more relaxed option, or disabling power-saving ,things goes fine. is it expected behaviour ?! | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG_ | damn weather made my router reboot 4 times | 22:09 |
| SpeedEvil | strcpy: some routers are annoying | 22:09 |
| SpeedEvil | strcpy: I get normal behaviour with only 200ms or so worst-case lag. | 22:10 |
| SpeedEvil | strcpy: with powersave enabled | 22:10 |
| strcpy | SpeedEvil: thanks for comments. so you confirm non-rfc compliance implementation in routers too ? | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | strcpy: ? | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | strcpy: what do you mean non-rfc? | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | There are several. | 22:11 |
| strcpy | talking with some others, they had the same guess ( based on their router working fine) that it`s cus of bad implementation of wifi standards in some routers... | 22:12 |
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| strcpy | mine is U.S.robotics | 22:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | Older routers tend not to implement teh powersaving stuff. | 22:13 |
| strcpy | SpeedEvil: there are some standards (documented in RFCs)on how to design a wifi-router for example . | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | For various reasons up to and including that it wasn't made. | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | not RFCs | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | it's an add-on to the wlan standard basically | 22:13 |
| strcpy | I didn`t knew about it being kind of add-on :) | 22:14 |
| strcpy | though it`s something every vendor should have | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | But the standard was created relatively recently. | 22:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | And there are routers that are in service that are older than this. | 22:15 |
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| asj_ | if you increase the beacon interval on the router it may make powersavings play better | 22:16 |
| adalal_mobile | test | 22:16 |
| asj_ | (well ap) | 22:16 |
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| strcpy | asj_: I`ll give it a try | 22:16 |
| Aranel | anyone knows where can I find HAM category icons? | 22:17 |
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| strcpy | asj_: any recommendation on how much to reduce intervals ? like by 50% ? | 22:18 |
| asj_ | it's just a guess, but the 802.11 radio in the n900 is going to power down and only listen for beacons (every 100ms) which contains or is followed by data telling stations if there are any wiating packets for them. If you reduce this it should reduce the lag as well, assuming the n900 wakes up for each beacon. | 22:19 |
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| strcpy | reducing beacons really made some improvements on this issue :) good idea | 22:20 |
| asj_ | good! :) | 22:20 |
| asj_ | it'll use more power though, that's the downside | 22:21 |
| strcpy | default was 1000 , 500 seems fine . how ever I should pick more strict number with try & error | 22:21 |
| strcpy | lot`s of beacons in the air... | 22:21 |
| asj_ | 1000ms? or 1000 beacons/sec? | 22:21 |
| asj_ | normal beacon interval is 100ms, or 10/second | 22:21 |
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| strcpy | it`s mentioned as "interval" in router | 22:22 |
| cehteh | oh yay .. bricked the device again :/ .. the 'kernel-flasher-maemo' package just udapted broke it | 22:22 |
| strcpy | both means same thing :) | 22:22 |
| asj_ | strcpy: I would set the interval to 100ms | 22:22 |
| strcpy | must be 1000ms | 22:22 |
| strcpy | 1000ps is crazy ! | 22:22 |
| asj_ | most devices expect 100ms, 1000ms is 1 second | 22:23 |
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| strcpy | now it only should be tested to find which case use less power : #switching p.saving to medium , or reducing beacons on router ... | 22:24 |
| asj_ | bricked == turned into a paper weight, unrecoverable by except perhaps at the factory (or via jtag). Since when has it come to mean OTA upgrade failed? | 22:24 |
| Aranel | anyone knows where can I find HAM category icons? {asking every 5 minutes :P } | 22:25 |
| strcpy | Aranel: if anybody knows, you`d probably get some answers | 22:25 |
| Jaffa | Aranel: /etc/hildon/theme/backgrounds/ | 22:25 |
| strcpy | no need to repeat | 22:25 |
| Jaffa | Aranel: Check Catorise source for exact details | 22:26 |
| Aranel | thanks Jaffa =) | 22:27 |
| Aranel | sorry strcpy, but sometimes repeating it twice helps =) | 22:27 |
| strcpy | :) | 22:27 |
| Jaffa | :) | 22:28 |
| Jaffa | Aranel: specifically, /etc/hildon/theme/backgrounds/app_install_*.png | 22:28 |
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| * Jaffa realised he has Catorise installed, and is on his N900 so could just, y'know, check. | 22:29 | |
| Aranel | ^^ do you know if they're licensed strictly or not? | 22:29 |
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| Aranel | I'm thinking of using them on another Maemo-related project. | 22:30 |
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| microlith | hmm | 22:38 |
| Markus23 | is there any time registration app for n900 | 22:39 |
| Markus23 | I basically only want to know how many hours per week I work for a project | 22:39 |
| Markus23 | so very basic app would be enough! | 22:39 |
| pupnik_ | find a linux app or write own | 22:40 |
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| Markus23 | pupnik_: honestly I dont even know a linux app for time registrations, do you know one? | 22:40 |
| pupnik_ | mhm | 22:41 |
| pupnik_ | i only tracked with lotus notes | 22:41 |
| flux | obviously the answer is.. emacs! | 22:41 |
| flux | ;) | 22:41 |
| Markus23 | there was an idea of using wtmp for that | 22:41 |
| mgedmin | Markus23, there's gtimelog with a very unresponsive upstream maintainer (yours truly), but it was never ported to Maemo | 22:41 |
| mgedmin | shouldn't be too difficult -- it's all Python and PyGtk | 22:41 |
| flux | I thought I saw such a tool for n900, actually, but I can't seem to find it so perhaps it doesn't exist. | 22:41 |
| Markus23 | so that I login with a specific user when the work begins, and log out when it ends | 22:41 |
| pupnik_ | mgedmin: ++ | 22:41 |
| Markus23 | flux: would help me a lot | 22:42 |
| Markus23 | the time registration would begin tomorrow, so no time for porting :-) | 22:42 |
| flux | use a spreatsheet app via vnc from your workstation? .. | 22:42 |
| * mgedmin googles | 22:43 | |
| lcuk | mgedmin, \@ port gtimelog to allow irc logging | 22:43 |
| maher | does anyone know where modest hides its font color settings? | 22:43 |
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| mgedmin | Markus23, does http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35474 have any suggestions? | 22:43 |
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| * mgedmin reads | 22:44 | |
| mgedmin | not really | 22:44 |
| mgedmin | heh, gtimelog runs without any modifications | 22:45 |
| mgedmin | doesn't even look too bad | 22:46 |
| mgedmin | if you've got extras-devel you can try it out: sudo apt-get install python-glade2 bzr; bzr get lp:gtimelog; cd gtimelog; python gtimelog | 22:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pff, read catorize is autosorting to HAM categories, so I decided for MyMenu. Alas this one as well doesn't allow me to config the submenus and apps therein according to my needs :-/ | 22:47 |
| Markus23 | mgedmin: is gtimelog available in repositories? | 22:48 |
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| mgedmin | Markus23, no | 22:48 |
| Markus23 | so the debian package there works? | 22:48 |
| mgedmin | no debian package, I checked out the upstream version from bazaar | 22:48 |
| Markus23 | ok | 22:49 |
| mgedmin | check out the screenshots/description at http://mg.pov.lt/gtimelog/ | 22:49 |
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| mgedmin | if the principle of the thing seems right for you, I can try to build a Maemo package tonight | 22:49 |
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| trip0 | so how good is the n900's gps. i can't seem to get a signal | 22:52 |
| trip0 | ? | 22:52 |
| mgedmin | trip0, pretty good if you've got a SIM card, pretty awful if you don't | 22:52 |
| trip0 | ahh, i don't have a sim card | 22:52 |
| trip0 | hmm, why does it need one i wonder? | 22:52 |
| mgedmin | assisted GPS is faster | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | it can download ephemeris and almanac over 3G instead of trickling them from the satellites at 1.5 Kbit/s | 22:53 |
| trip0 | AGPS == cell tower trianglation? | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | also, I believe it uses cell tower info | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | no, AGPS is different | 22:53 |
| mgedmin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGPS | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | actually, maybe cell tower info is a subset of AGPS | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | these terms are confusing | 22:54 |
| Markus23 | mgedmin: yeah, prinziple is perfect | 22:54 |
| Markus23 | but I could also install it in easy debian | 22:54 |
| Markus23 | but package would be cool :-) | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | anyway, there's a user interface bug: the GPS may need 5-6 minutes to acquire a fix, but the software times out sooner and disables the GPS, resetting the process back to zero | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | trip0, to get the initial fix, launch ovi maps and keep the screen from blanking | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | after that it should get subsequent fix's faster, maybe | 22:55 |
| trip0 | ahhk | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | actually, it may have been fixed in latter firmwares, I wasn't keeping track | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | Markus23, there's a package in debian/ubuntu | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | I can port it quickly, it won't be hildonized | 22:56 |
| trip0 | agps fixed in firmware? | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | trip0, no, timeouts increased to 3 minutes | 22:56 |
| trip0 | ahhk | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | bug 5337 | 22:56 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 Ovi Maps gives up finding GPS lock too soon | 22:56 |
| Markus23 | mgedmin: debian package does not install to /opt... | 22:56 |
| trip0 | i probably need to flash to get firmware updates? | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | or bug 7026 or bug 2878 | 22:56 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7026 Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view | 22:56 |
| trip0 | or can i do an over the air "maemo" update? | 22:56 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2878 Very poor satellite acquisition with internal GPS | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | Markus23, pymaemo-optify takes care of that transparently | 22:57 |
| jacekowski | trip0: only difference between agps and gps is that agps have capability to get ephemeris from internet | 22:57 |
| mgedmin | trip0, you should be able to get FW updates over the air | 22:57 |
| cehteh | use maep or maemo mapper then gps works pretty well | 22:57 |
| jacekowski | trip0: while normal not assisted gps has to get them from sattelite | 22:57 |
| jacekowski | trip0: which requires better signal | 22:57 |
| jacekowski | some gpses can get that data of internet offline | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | like tomtom | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | where you download data for next week from internet | 22:58 |
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| jacekowski | and store it in internal memory of device | 22:59 |
| mgedmin | has anybody seen a "how to hildonize a PyGtk app" tutorial recently? | 23:00 |
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| V13 | I believe the gps thing is 100% server issue. If you use gps jinni you'll see that it takes tooooo much time to fetch the list of satellites. Unfortunately, it seems that until it gets the list of satelites from the internet, it will not use the gps signal. So you either disable AGPS or change the server to google's | 23:06 |
| V13 | meaning: change "location server" to supl.google.com | 23:08 |
| V13 | or disable "network positioning" | 23:08 |
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| bnhw | Hi, I'm developing a small application using pygame for the N900 and I'm wondering about whether or not I need to disable compositing manually. I've come across a flag which needs to be set for OpenGL ES apps, but nothing about SDL or python. | 23:11 |
| lcuk | bnhw, did you just try it? | 23:11 |
| lcuk | with and without | 23:11 |
| bnhw | I'm not sure how to disable it in python. | 23:11 |
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| lcuk | does it run well in python without messing? | 23:13 |
| bnhw | No, it doesn't. | 23:13 |
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| bnhw | Hang on, I might have found something about using Xatom | 23:14 |
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| * mgedmin gets bogged down in Debian packaging | 23:15 | |
| jo-erlend | is PySide stable and does it have good documentation available? I'd like to start writing applications for maemo, n900 and similar devices. PySide seems like the best place to start? | 23:16 |
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| RST38h | Anyone knows if mplayer in Extras is optified? | 23:16 |
| mgedmin | that would be a nice addition to maemo.org/packages | 23:16 |
| mgedmin | list all files (and sizes) in the debs, assign to filesystems, sum, present to the user | 23:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: notes - http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic | 23:17 |
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| MohammadAG | RST38h, yes it's optified | 23:18 |
| RST38h | coooool =) | 23:18 |
| * mgedmin cries | 23:18 | |
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| * pronto patpat mgedmin on the head | 23:20 | |
| mgedmin | why is Python packaging soo hard? | 23:20 |
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| RST38h | Because you are supposed to program in a real language! | 23:21 |
| * RST38h explodes in diabolic laughter | 23:22 | |
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| * mgedmin targets an ICMB to RST38h's location | 23:24 | |
| * MohammadAG attaches a nuclear warhead to it | 23:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | Surely you attach nucular warheads to ICMBs? | 23:24 |
| * mgedmin is feeling dyslexic today | 23:25 | |
| SpeedEvil | careful when typing coordinates. | 23:25 |
| mgedmin | gah, I don't even remember that I finally gave a version number to gtimelog | 23:26 |
| cehteh | .. back to ext3 from ext4 ... the external kernel is too much pita | 23:26 |
| * MohammadAG googles ICMB | 23:26 | |
| * mgedmin was calling his package version 0.0+svn88+bzr145 | 23:26 | |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, yeah, why not? :P | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | cehteh: :-/ | 23:27 |
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| RST38h | ICBMs. | 23:28 |
| dracflamloc | http://code.google.com/p/wtfgame/ anyone want to port this to maemo? =P | 23:28 |
| dracflamloc | should be pretty easy | 23:28 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: ext3 is actually good enough .. while ext4 was quite much better... i now see that while rsyncing data gain | 23:28 |
| dracflamloc | i got the linux build workin | 23:28 |
| cehteh | ext4 was double as fast | 23:29 |
| lcuk | RST38h, which os do those icbms use? | 23:29 |
| lcuk | actually i should be asking mgedmin | 23:29 |
| mgedmin | you'd better tell me where to install .desktop files | 23:30 |
| mgedmin | /usr/share/something/something | 23:30 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: No idea | 23:33 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, /usr/share/applications/hildon/*.desktop | 23:33 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Whatever little idea I have, is probably unsafe to disclose here anyway. | 23:33 |
| lcuk | just send a link to wikidot | 23:33 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:33 |
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| mgedmin | so, what magic am I missing in my .desktop...? the app menu doesn't show my icon | 23:36 |
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| mgedmin | not that I have an icon, actually, hm | 23:36 |
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| mgedmin | and closing the window doesn't exit the app | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | something about wmclass? | 23:37 |
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| mgedmin | where should I put my 48x48 icon? | 23:40 |
| RST38h | control? | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | on the filesystem | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | gpodder ships four files called gpodder.png | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | do I need to scale the icon down to 40x40? | 23:41 |
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| mgedmin | both problems not solved : | 23:43 |
| mgedmin | oh, hey, I'm not shipping the desktop and icon at all | 23:44 |
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| mgedmin | debhelper! cdbs! curse you all! | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | rpm ftw! | 23:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:47 |
| RST38h | pkg_add. | 23:49 |
| RST38h | Why use puny attempts at imitating pkg_add, when you can use the real thing/ | 23:49 |
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| mgedmin | okay, I give up | 23:50 |
| mgedmin | no gtimelog for maemo | 23:50 |
| pupnik_ | i wish the pandora guys were part of our sphere | 23:50 |
| Ilamuser_ | my phone appears to be bricked and I just wanted to check that no-one else knows how to fix this problem before sending it back to Nokia. The phone has many strange issues (like not wanting to charge) so I wanted to reflash the firmware. When I restart the phone by plugging in the USB cable, the usb doesn't come up as on normal phones, and I can't connect to it with the flasher utility. I have successfully reflashed other phones, and it appears to me that | 23:53 |
| Ilamuser_ | the phone can't go into a firmware update mode. Has anyone seen the problem before? | 23:53 |
| pupnik_ | did you turn it off before connecting? | 23:54 |
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| Stskeeps | ~flashing | 23:54 |
| infobot | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | Ilamuser_: check that page | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | if it doesn't want to charge, USB port may be broken | 23:55 |
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| Ilamuser_ | pupnik: yes I did turn it off. | 23:56 |
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| Ilamuser_ | Stskeeps: I have used the instructions on that page before, but it relies on geting to a firmware-update mode which my phone won't do. | 23:58 |
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| cehteh | Ilamuser_: what exactly does it do when you turn it on? | 23:59 |
| Ian-- | Ilamuser_: did you remove the battery and then charge it? | 23:59 |
| Stskeeps | Ilamuser_: is it a N900? | 23:59 |
| Ilamuser_ | my best guess is that either the firmware is corrupted, or the USB charging-hardware is damaged. A major symptom is that the phone wasn't always charging normally | 23:59 |
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