IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-02-27

*** elian_m has joined #maemo00:00
*** zs has quit IRC00:00
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo00:00
*** mikhas has quit IRC00:01
*** Pakke has quit IRC00:01
*** mikhas has joined #maemo00:01
pupnik_five more days housework and i'll have new dev studio setup00:02
Proteousangry bird levels!00:02
*** t_s_o has quit IRC00:02
*** juliank has quit IRC00:02
pupnik_a good loderunner clone would be fun00:03
*** wizkoder has joined #maemo00:04
*** spoussa has quit IRC00:04
*** celesteh has left #maemo00:04
*** netvandal has quit IRC00:06
*** michele_ has joined #maemo00:06
*** type_t has quit IRC00:06
ProteousI played the shit out of loadrunner on my old mac plus00:06
Proteousthat and dark castle00:06
*** jgastal has quit IRC00:08
Arif_pupnik_, get a NES emulator :P00:08
*** glyph has quit IRC00:09
*** glyph has joined #maemo00:09
*** chenca has quit IRC00:09
*** Dantonic has quit IRC00:10
*** _andy has quit IRC00:12
*** radic has quit IRC00:14
*** promulo has joined #maemo00:14
*** caratorn has quit IRC00:15
*** krum_ has joined #maemo00:19
*** radic has joined #maemo00:19
*** dottedmag has quit IRC00:20
GAN900Dark Castle00:20
*** type_t has joined #maemo00:20
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo00:24
*** ml-mobile has quit IRC00:25
pupnik_Arif_: didnt know loderunner was released for nes00:29
*** alex-weej has quit IRC00:30
Arif_There's even Lode Runner 2 on NES00:30
pupnik_yeah me or somebody also needs to port the mac emu00:30
*** genewitch has joined #maemo00:30
pupnik_the canonical loderunner is for apple 2, which i also have running here00:30
pupnik_nokia needs to kidnap me and put me in a basement somewhere away from internet00:31
*** genewitch has left #maemo00:31
Arif_more buggy Nokia software \o/00:31
pupnik_it isnt so hard to do a basic port.  doing a good job takes some skill00:32
Arif_have you played SEGA and Sonic Racing on PC?00:33
Arif_it's such a lazy port that they didn't even bother to let you TYPE your name in the profile creation00:33
Arif_you have to scroll around the letters and enter them one by one :P00:33
Arif_and there's no joystick support ={00:34
pupnik_that is because thew console game had no keyboard support00:34
*** sp3001 has quit IRC00:34
Arif_they made a lazier than lazy port :P00:34
Arif_you still get the XBOX 360 icons in the tutorial :D00:34
*** kimitake_idle has joined #maemo00:36
*** noyanoztepe has joined #maemo00:38
*** _Elwood_ has quit IRC00:41
*** The_Tall1 has quit IRC00:42
pupnik_we should be able to do FOSS remakes of the simple classics.  screw the warez00:42
*** tonikitoo has quit IRC00:43
Arif_we should warez a lot so the emulators get improved! :P00:45
*** furunk3l has quit IRC00:45
*** kkito has quit IRC00:47
*** bleeter has quit IRC00:48
*** kkito has joined #maemo00:48
*** N900evil has joined #maemo00:48
*** N900evil has joined #maemo00:48
*** bleeter has joined #maemo00:49
*** noyanoztepe has quit IRC00:50
luke-jrArif_: warez are illegal; therefore, do FOSS remakes for the original platforms00:51
Arif_But if you get one emulator to work good you'll have a lot of games to play in one go :)00:53
Arif_and I doubt companies are still producing/selling NES/SNES/GBA games :O00:53
satmdyou bet00:53
satmdthey still claim their copyrights with claws and teeth00:54
satmdfor stuff that's decades old00:54
Arif_Maybe they're bored ;(00:54
satmdwell, I've followed this discussions with amiga a500/a1200 emulation00:55
*** mschr has quit IRC00:55
Arif_what was the outcome?00:55
satmd"no you can't have the stuff even if we don't care about it anymore"00:55
satmdnow cloanto is selling a bundle of emulation + games for win00:55
satmdso they got the retro fans pay licensing00:56
satmdanother revenue for them00:56
Arif_oh I remember a company selling a C64 emulator + games00:56
Arif_some of those games had loaders in them :D00:56
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo00:56
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo00:57
*** Dantonic has quit IRC00:57
*** halves has quit IRC00:58
*** greenlion has quit IRC00:59
* satmd listens to the public release of machinae supremacy - the great gianna sisters ;D00:59
satmdI'm off for today [23:59 here]00:59
*** gjl has quit IRC01:02
*** jayabharath has quit IRC01:02
ShadowJKsatmd, aw, how can you leave without sending that file to me01:03
*** rhenz has quit IRC01:03
redeemansatmd: theres an unpublic release?!01:04
*** wazd has quit IRC01:05
*** davyg has quit IRC01:05
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo01:08
*** danilocesar has quit IRC01:08
*** pH5 has quit IRC01:09
*** Gizmokid2005 is now known as Gizmokid2005|AFK01:09
pupnik_our lives are way too short01:10
*** FIQ has quit IRC01:11
*** wazd has joined #maemo01:12
*** dvoid_ has quit IRC01:12
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo01:13
*** t-tan has quit IRC01:13
*** jayabharath has joined #maemo01:14
*** greenlion has joined #maemo01:15
*** EspadaV8_L has joined #maemo01:16
*** Omegamoon has left #maemo01:20
*** choppa has quit IRC01:23
*** rdorsch has quit IRC01:24
*** alexg__ has quit IRC01:27
*** mschr has joined #maemo01:28
*** elian_m has quit IRC01:28
*** greenlion has quit IRC01:30
*** Fredrik1994 has quit IRC01:30
*** millenomi has quit IRC01:30
*** kalikianatoli has quit IRC01:31
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC01:31
*** renato_ has quit IRC01:33
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo01:33
*** wazd has quit IRC01:34
*** EspadaV8_L has quit IRC01:37
*** mlfoster has quit IRC01:38
*** jayabharath has quit IRC01:39
*** briglia has quit IRC01:40
*** jayabharath has joined #maemo01:40
*** gjl has joined #maemo01:40
*** Dantonic has quit IRC01:41
*** _Elwood_ has joined #maemo01:42
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo01:43
*** hardaker has joined #maemo01:44
*** michele_ has quit IRC01:46
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC01:46
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC01:47
*** djkrikke has quit IRC01:47
*** michele_ has joined #maemo01:49
*** hannesw has quit IRC01:51
*** radic has quit IRC01:54
*** pupnik_ has quit IRC01:54
*** wizcoder has joined #maemo01:56
*** radic has joined #maemo01:57
*** wizkoder has quit IRC01:58
*** michele_ has quit IRC01:58
*** murrayc has quit IRC01:59
*** jef91 has joined #maemo01:59
jef91Anyone here using the Firefox mobile browser?01:59
*** kkb110 has quit IRC02:00
jacekowskinot really02:01
jacekowskimicroB seems to be better02:01
Arif_microb is good enough02:02
Arif_no need for furryfox02:02
*** radic_ has joined #maemo02:02
* tripzero votes for ovi nav to come to n900 today02:03
Lumpio-If only microB supported Weave02:03
Arif_tripzero, on a saturday?02:03
*** anotnac has joined #maemo02:03
tripzeroit's still friday here02:03
pronto  two feet of snow :o02:03
Arif_not in Finlandia02:04
tripzeroi'll settle for monday if i have to02:04
tripzeroi know.. :|02:04
lcuklol promulo02:04
lcukpronto even02:04
*** radic has quit IRC02:06
jacekowskiwhy this crappy ovi store can't remember what phone i've got02:07
jacekowskiand every time i go there it shows me shit for n9702:07
Arif_you need to enter your current password02:07
Arif_and login02:07
jacekowskii did that02:07
jacekowskiand changed my phone in settings02:08
jacekowskiand when i go to shop next time02:08
jacekowskiand log in again02:08
jacekowskii have n97 again02:08
jacekowskiit's stored in cookies02:08
Arif_enter your current password on the select phone page02:08
jacekowskithat's stupid02:09
Arif_yes it is02:09
Arif_and there's nothing worht downloading on the N900 ovi store anyway02:10
tybolltis need HALP02:10
*** b-man17 has quit IRC02:11
jacekowskii just hope that something will change02:11
rangeWell, the angry bird levels seem to be back.02:11
Arif_they're gone again02:11
rangeOh. Great.02:11
rangeLooks like ovi will put *teh fear* into other app stores :)02:12
Lumpio-Well, luckily we have repositories.02:12
*** jgoss has quit IRC02:14
*** BabelO has quit IRC02:14
Arif_it only had creditcard support anyway02:14
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC02:14
jacekowskiwhat's wrong with CC02:16
Arif_I don't have one02:16
*** VDVsx has quit IRC02:16
*** jayabharath has quit IRC02:16
*** djdm has joined #maemo02:16
Arif_and even if I had02:16
Arif_I refuse to pay €3 for half a game that's only 60 cents on the iPhone store and that's the FULL game02:17
tybollthow do I control the volume of the alarm on the n900?02:17
Arif_in the profiles?02:17
tybollthmm ok02:17
Arif_oh no02:18
Arif_apparently not02:18
*** zap has quit IRC02:18
tybolltI think I checked that02:18
ShadowJKCC is like .. "Why do you need /credit/? Don't you have money? Oh you have money? Then you don't need credit. GTFO."02:18
ShadowJKor "Why do you need credit? Don't you have money? Oh you don't, then how can you pay? Oh you can't, well GTFO."02:18
tybolltarif: I sleep hard I need louder alarm :)02:19
Arif_I wake up from the vibration before the alarm even starts ringing02:19
Arif_ShadowJK, I have a bank card that I can't use on Ovi02:20
*** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo02:20
Arif_and I got banned from paypal because they found out I was <1802:20
ShadowJKbank cards are easy to get, because they aren't a loan :)02:20
Arif_I could get a cc too02:21
*** |R has quit IRC02:21
Arif_but why would I get one just to buy an overpriced half game02:21
jef91Anyone else had issues with AIM not being able to login under IM accounts?02:21
* Arif_ has no aim02:22
Arif_that sounds wrong02:22
* Arif_ has no aim account!02:22
ShadowJKand CC's cost money, even when you fall in that narrow gap where you don't have too much money that asking for a loan is suspicious, and where you're not too poor to qualify for a loan02:23
zerojayjef91: If you are having a problem, look at Advanced options and see if a port number is listed. If not, add 5190.02:23
Arif_ShadowJK, they cost money to have too!02:24
Arif_like €50 a year02:24
Arif_which I can waste on other stuff ;(02:24
*** leandroal has joined #maemo02:24
jacekowskiShadowJK: well, i have free CC02:25
*** JoeBrain has joined #maemo02:25
jef91zerojay no dice on adding the port :(02:25
jacekowskiShadowJK: and for me it's better to use CC because i don't pay foreign transaction fee if i go abroad02:25
jacekowskiShadowJK: while on debit card i pay02:26
jacekowskiShadowJK: and if i pay it within 60 days there is no intrest02:26
* Arif_ pokes jacekowski with the EU02:26
jacekowskii'm in EU02:26
ShadowJKYeah that's what I meant :)02:26
ShadowJKArif_, it amazes me to this day that there are some sellers out there that don't accept normal bank cards, atleast with those they know immediately whether the customer has money or not02:26
Arif_you don't have those costs in the my bank at least :O02:27
jacekowskiArif_: i do have to pay fee if i use my debit card abroad02:27
Arif_I don't02:27
jacekowskiArif_: but not if i pay with CC02:27
Arif_even in Turkey I can use it02:27
*** jgoss has joined #maemo02:27
Arif_ShadowJK, in Holland there's a payment method called iDEAL where you can pay on most Dutch webshops with your debit card02:28
Arif_that's why CCs aren't very popular here I guess02:28
zerojayjef91: Was it missing?02:28
jacekowskiwell, i've got visa debit and mastercard and maestro and amex02:28
jacekowskipretty much all you can get02:28
jef91zerojay Yes. And adding it made no change02:28
jacekowskiand i can pay pretty much everywhere with that debit card02:28
zerojayjef91: Check again. You might have canceled it instead of saving it.02:28
jef91the server is:
jef91No it saved, I checked and double checked02:29
zerojayOkay, set yourself offline and the back online.02:29
Arif_I want the Mastercard paypass in .nl02:29
ShadowJKArif_, in finland you can pay without cards on most webshops, and the same transaction method is accepted as proof of ID (with 0euro transaction) :))02:29
Arif_how do you pay then02:29
Arif_at the door? :P02:29
*** jayabharath has joined #maemo02:30
Arif_bank transfer?02:30
Lumpio-It's not a 0EUR transaction02:30
Lumpio-They have a standard API for identification and it doesn't count as a transaction02:30
jef91Oh wait, yea just did that and it worked Zerojay thanks :D02:30
*** wazd has joined #maemo02:31
ShadowJKYou pay via your bank's web interface. It requires a username/pin, plus a one time password. Some banks have these little battery-operated keys that display a number that is unique for that key, and valid for half a minute at the time, or something, instead of the one-time password list02:31
Arif_that's the same as iDEAL here02:32
jacekowskithat's pointless02:32
jacekowskiit's not portable02:32
jacekowskiCC is portable and accepted worldwide02:32
Arif_I'm not paying for a CC I'll never use ;p02:33
jacekowskiit's free here02:33
jacekowskiesspecialy if you could just generate like a one time CC number02:33
*** mikhas has quit IRC02:33
jacekowskiso you go to your bank webpage - generate CC with £1 to £1000 limit or whatever02:33
jacekowskiso you can use it on some suspicious website02:33
*** mikhas has joined #maemo02:34
Arif_wish we had free CCs02:34
Arif_it'd make buying crap off DX much more easier :D02:34
jacekowskii don't really understand how bank makes profit02:34
jacekowskiwhen i got my CC i had completly free acount02:34
Arif_they make money off people that don't pay their debt02:35
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC02:35
Arif_and part of your purchase goes to the CC company :p02:35
Lumpio-I doubt the money they charge you for credit cards or other services is really such a large part of their profit02:35
Lumpio-They collect interest02:35
jacekowskithey made profit on me only once02:35
Lumpio-I wonder if banks are allowed to invest their customers' money02:35
jacekowskiwhen i had to get 1k in the evening02:36
jacekowskiLumpio-: they are02:36
Arif_that's how they get bankrupt and the whole crisis nonsense started :P02:36
Lumpio-But yeah, that's how they make money.02:36
jacekowskiLumpio-: that's 10% has to go to bank of england02:36
jacekowskiLumpio-: and they can do whatever they want with 90%02:36
ShadowJKI think the best part of it is that it works without the need for cards that are decoupled from your real accounts, and you don't have to pay 50 Euro per year to Visa or Mastercard :)02:36
jacekowskiLumpio-: 10% of deposited money go to bank of england, and 90% is invested02:37
* Arif_ goes to sleep :yawn:02:37
ShadowJKThere would probably be cheaper CC's if Mastercard and Visa actually competed with eachother, but instead they formed luottokunta which is this cartel which controls credit cards and other forms of consumer credit.. but the point is, I don't want credit, I just want to move money from myself to the seller, and for this I don't wnat to go through the highly expensive mastercard/visa cartel, when there's an existing payments infracstructure in place, that w02:37
*** dl9pf_ has joined #maemo02:37
ShadowJKorks online, works in realtime, is easy to use, and costs me nothing :)02:38
jacekowskiShadowJK: i have free CC02:38
ShadowJKif Ovi wants to force me to use a card which, IF I QUALIFY to that narrow gap between not earning too much, and not earning too little, costs 50 - 300 Euro per year, then so be it...02:38
*** dl9pf has quit IRC02:38
*** dl9pf_ is now known as dl9pf02:38
*** dl9pf has joined #maemo02:38
jacekowskiand if you earn too much you don't have any problems getting CC02:38
jacekowskiit's when you earn too little02:39
*** rsalveti has quit IRC02:39
ShadowJKjacekowski, I tried before they told me I don't need credit because I had 10,000 on deposit, and gave me a bank card instead02:39
*** pupnik has joined #maemo02:40
jacekowskiyou just apply for a card02:40
pupnikright im in a fun club02:40
jacekowskibut anyways02:40
jacekowskitime to sleep02:40
ShadowJKand they call me and invite me to face to face meeting to give me bank card02:40
*** jayabharath has quit IRC02:41
pupnikhow do i stream thew party right now to irc?02:41
ShadowJKAnd apparently they don't do "0 credit" cards either.02:41
ShadowJKlike, pay 1000 or something into it in advance02:41
jacekowskiyou can always get debit card02:41
ShadowJKYeah but it rarely works on sites outside the country02:42
jacekowskidepends on card02:42
ShadowJKthough it works on paypal02:42
jacekowskiif you get like a visa debit02:42
jacekowskior something02:42
jacekowskiit works fine worldwide02:42
ShadowJKVisa Electron was what they offered before, it worked on paypal and ryanair, but that was about it :P02:43
*** pupnik has quit IRC02:43
ShadowJKi think they're offering visa debit now02:43
ShadowJKbut it costs more money than electron :/02:43
jacekowskigiving electron to people should be illegal02:43
*** ZogG has quit IRC02:43
jacekowskiit's pretty much useless02:43
*** pupnik has joined #maemo02:43
ShadowJKit cost 0 to use it with ryanair :D02:44
jacekowskiand well, as i said - it's free here02:44
ShadowJKwhile as using Visa or Visa Debit with ryanair costs something like 50E :)02:44
*** ZogG has joined #maemo02:44
Lumpio-jacekowski: Really?02:44
Lumpio-I've yet to ran to a place that doesn't accept Electron02:44
jacekowskimore like £502:44
Lumpio-I don't do that much online shopping though, and even then I'd rather not use a credit card. And PayPal accept Electron.02:45
jacekowskiLumpio-: whole africa02:45
pupnikyall im gonna N900 vid beautiful women02:45
jacekowskiLumpio-: north america02:45
Lumpio-Well I don't go to 3rd world countries like that02:45
pupnikbut no fast way to share the fun02:45
jacekowskiLumpio-: and lot of places in countries where banks don't give out electrons to people02:45
jacekowskilike UK02:45
Lumpio-I know it might be useless in foreign countries but I don't go to weird countries.02:45
jacekowskiUK isn't a strange country02:46
Lumpio-Also it's free until I turn 26 or something02:46
ShadowJKelectron works in most of europe, atleast in ATMs02:46
jacekowskinot here02:47
jacekowskionly place here that accepts electrons is mcdonalds02:47
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo02:48
ShadowJKI think 100% of shops here are accepting electron now... mostly because banks abolished bank cards and had to start issuing visa debit instead, so all the equipment had to be renewed anyway..02:49
ShadowJKand banks had to abolish the cheap bank cards because of eu :(02:49
jacekowskiit's not about equipment02:49
jacekowskiit's bank policy02:49
*** setanta has quit IRC02:50
jacekowskibanks here in EU gives out free debit and credit cards02:50
ShadowJKNo they had to give up the bank cards because they don't work in all of eu02:50
*** slaxium has quit IRC02:50
ShadowJKand they can only issue new cards that work in all of eu02:50
jacekowskiand going back to equipment02:51
jacekowskiit's only software that decides what cards are supporte02:51
ShadowJKchip and pin too02:51
jacekowskithat would require upgrade02:52
jacekowskibut after you get chip&pin terminal you only need software change ( it's done automaticaly )02:52
*** trbs has quit IRC02:53
auenfmaestro/cirrus debit cards?02:55
*** alecrim_ is now known as alecrim02:56
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC02:58
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo03:00
*** wazd has quit IRC03:01
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has joined #maemo03:02
*** wizkoder has joined #maemo03:04
*** wizcoder has quit IRC03:05
*** aakashd has quit IRC03:06
*** dracflamloc has joined #maemo03:07
*** wiretapped has quit IRC03:12
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo03:14
*** t7g_ has joined #maemo03:14
*** tank-man has quit IRC03:15
*** t7g__ has quit IRC03:17
*** wizkoder has quit IRC03:18
*** wizkoder has joined #maemo03:19
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC03:19
*** jabis has quit IRC03:20
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has quit IRC03:21
*** |R has joined #maemo03:22
*** hardaker has quit IRC03:23
*** Gizmokid2005|AFK is now known as Gizmokid200503:28
*** bleeter has quit IRC03:31
*** Mousey has quit IRC03:31
*** bleeter has joined #maemo03:32
pupnikall the kids are mocking my linux03:32
*** heaviside has joined #maemo03:33
*** gjl has quit IRC03:34
*** heaviside has left #maemo03:35
*** other_ has joined #maemo03:35
*** zs_ has quit IRC03:37
*** mikhas has quit IRC03:39
*** other_ has quit IRC03:41
*** KMFDM has quit IRC03:42
*** wiretapped has joined #maemo03:46
*** alecrim has quit IRC03:50
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo03:50
FunnyfaceHello, I am planning to buy an N900, and have looked around on the web about known issues with the devices. I found some threads where they discussed a microphone problem, random reboots, and some wifi and bluetooth bugs. But most of these threads date back to around Nov 2009. Any idea what the current state of these issues is?03:54
*** |Shadowed| has quit IRC03:56
dockaneFunnyface: i dont think you are going to get happy with n900 if you try to find a completly working smartphone. instead its fairly good working tablet with good enough working phone function set for the most nerds around me here03:57
Funnyfacedockane: I can live with most software related stuff, because there is mostly a workaround to that, but I don't want to end up with yet another device where the hardware simply doesn't work as expected, like my old smart phone :P03:59
ShadowJKThe random reboots was resolved an update03:59
ShadowJKin an*03:59
Funnyfaceok great03:59
ShadowJKI'm not sure about the status of microphone problems, but they should be covered under warranty03:59
ShadowJKI think the current big topic is the USB port03:59
*** Cpasjuste is now known as cpasjuste04:00
Funnyfaceit comes loose after a while?04:00
*** tgalal_ has joined #maemo04:00
ShadowJKYeah. Some ports/plug combinations are very tight, and require a lot of force to unplug. The "workaround" seems to be to take the micro-usb plug and press the "teeth" in with your thumbnail, so that the latching force is reduced considerably, making it less likely that you'll damage the usb port04:01
Funnyfaceyeah sounds like an idea04:02
ShadowJKIn the original firmware, using wifi and bluetooth at the same time was pretty much a disaster. According to forums, this was "fixed" with the first major update04:02
ShadowJKbluetooth is as good as bluetooth in general is, in my experience..04:02
ShadowJKMight I ask what kind of user you are? on the scale of the generic "N900 looks like an awesome phone" type (I doubt, since you use freenode?), and "I'm a linux power user and want a linuxphone"-type, where would you say you are? ;-)04:04
*** RRabbit74 has quit IRC04:04
dockaneFunnyface: hardware works quite well afaict04:05
* luke-jr suspects most people here are "N900 comes with root!" <.<04:05
Funnyfaceuhm somewhere in between I guess.. I am not a programmer, and have limited experience with linux, but I still like to play around with things and tweak settings and the like..04:06
Lumpio-Oh, you need to be able to write shell scripts to make a call04:07
Lumpio-Nowait, that was openmoko04:07
luke-jrLumpio-: that's what I want :D04:07
*** uhsf has quit IRC04:07
ShadowJKFunnyface, re wifi, there's a bug that hits some people when they leave home for work and such, that the wifi is left consuming power. It helps to disable "Switch to WLAN when available", and also a "ifconfig wlan0 down" from a rootshell works. There was supposedly a fix for this in the last minor upgrade, and I haven't encountered the issue myself since then.04:07
Funnyfacehehe well that's fine04:08
ShadowJKIn general, there are some phone features and some smartphone features, that some people except to be present, missing from the N90004:08
dockaneShadowJK: me knows shell scripting to get things done and a bit where to copy and paste from04:09
*** leandroal has quit IRC04:09
FunnyfaceI might get some high capacity battery later on if I order the N900. haven't found any such batteries yet, but it might be an idea for a device like this04:09
nomisAre there smartphones where the battery lasts e.g. a week?04:10
ShadowJKMugen power has one, or will have one, it increases the thickness of the N900 (some people think it's too thick already).04:10
ShadowJKnomis, no. Not if you use them.04:10
rasterhmm speaking of n900... why is the maemo5 sdk so screwed?04:10
rasterit never sets sbox_emulation_method04:10
ShadowJKnomis, My N900 lasts longer on battery than my Nokia E75, and the N900 does more work04:10
ShadowJKSince the browser allows multiple windows, I enter a forum and open each thread in a new window and then read them. This results in more web pages displayed than on E75. Yet it lasts longer on battery04:11
*** victorpoluceno has quit IRC04:11
Funnyfaceit's probably going to be better than my current windows mobile phone anyway, 2 hours of use at the most and the battery is dead04:11
luke-jrnomis: N810 claimed a month, but lasted 3 hours or so at best :p04:12
ShadowJKI always had Instant Messaging (IRC) and stuff going on the E75 too though. People who don't run anything internet on E75, and just use it to make phone calls, probably get a week or two of standby life.04:12
ShadowJKBut I was at about 7 hours casual use and 12 hours idle (on IRC, screen off) use with it.04:12
rasternomis: yes. most smartphones will last a week - if you turn off wifi, bt, never actually turn the screen on or run anything and keep it on 2g mode.04:13
luke-jrShadowJK: IRC is just asking for trouble :P04:13
luke-jrat least if you're in any active channels04:13
Funnyfacedoes 2G in fact consume less power than 3G?04:13
ShadowJKMy N900 does about 14-18 hours in the idling on irc scenario, and about 12 hours in the irc+casual browsing while at work scenario :)04:13
luke-jrsomeone needs to make a smart Quassel client <.<04:13
ShadowJKFunnyface, it does04:13
rasterFunnyface:  yes.04:13
*** wizkoder has quit IRC04:13
luke-jrtell the server to only talk when the window is active or needs to highlight your nick04:14
ShadowJKFunnyface, especially if you use anything that transfers small amounts of data frequently, like instant messaging, skype, irc, msn, etc04:14
rasteras such with normal usage (noirmal meanign the average joe - ie u take phone out ot check time a few times a day, do a bit of messaging, a few sharot-ish calls) most phones - smartphones included should last about 24hrs04:14
rasterand then be low enough to need a recharge04:14
rasterthats pretty much the norm04:14
*** wizkoder has joined #maemo04:15
rasterregardless what u read in the hrs of talk/standby etc. time thats what the average seems to hover around04:15
Funnyfacealright. I never noticed much of a difference with my current device04:15
ShadowJKThe problem with 3g is that a single packet of data transfered keeps the radio active for some 5-10 seconds (this is something somewhat inherent to 3g tech, depends alot on the operator too), so if yo have a few IM accounts with their keep-alive packets, background protocol data, some chat activity, etc, the 3g radio is kept constantly transmitting and the battery drains in 3-6 hours :)04:15
Funnyfacebut I guess that the rest of the hardware consumes more power, so the radio's consumption is kind of insignificant04:16
ShadowJKgprs/edge is much better for that case. wifi (with a proper Access Point that supports wifi powersaving) is even better04:16
*** anotnac has quit IRC04:16
*** kkito has quit IRC04:17
ShadowJKThere are ways to make the N900 battery die in 1.5 hours too :)04:17
ShadowJKLike downloading at 10 megabits/sec from 3g for 1.5 hours04:17
rasterFunnyface: with screen off and cpu on buyt in a lowe power mode (eg clocked down to 50 or 100mhz as it may be when u sit on im but are not actively participating) your modem wi.ll consume a large amount of your power04:17
rasterprobably at least half04:17
ShadowJKmore than half :)04:18
raster(if its kept active)04:18
Funnyfaceand just one last thing.. if I somehow manage to screw up maemo so it won't boot, can the device be reinstalled without maemo running?04:18
sheepbatuse flasher04:19
ShadowJKwarning: battery charging doesn't work when maemo is screwed04:19
FunnyfaceI think I will order it soon then :)04:19
sheepbatyou can plug it into the computer and directly write to the NAND04:19
ShadowJKwarning: flashing doesn't work if battery is empty04:19
sheepbatyeah.. that is a good warning04:19
ShadowJKso do your screwing with full battery ;)04:19
sheepbatcharge it first04:19
Funnyfacehehe ok04:19
Funnyfacewell in the worst case I guess I could get hold of a second battery04:20
ShadowJKAnd you need to be able to follow instructions in order to reflash with dead OS04:20
Funnyfaceor charge mine in someone else's devices04:20
ShadowJKsomething like remove battery, plug in cable, start flasher on host PC, press u and hold on device, put in battery...04:20
ShadowJKi forget the exact sequence, but it's on the wiki..04:20
Funnyfaceyeah, as long as I won't leave the device bricked because of a software issue, it is fine04:21
rasterFunnyface: i've had to reflash mine mayve 10 times since i got it around end of the year. it bricked itself while in my pocket too04:22
rastersomehow it managed to un-brick if i plugged and unplugged it in often enough so finsally a usb device registered and i could run flasher04:23
ShadowJKWe don't have energy profiling on N900.. but if I cheat and compare N810/N800 idling with xchat on IRC, which is about 20-30 milliamps... and E75 sharing 3g/hsdpa over bluetooth to the idling N810.. then the 3f radio part is about 90% of power.. :/04:23
rasterand cosmic rays hit it at the right time and place04:23
rasterand god knows what else04:23
rasterits probably the most unstable device i have.. and thats including my prototypes :)04:23
rasterand a freerunner. :)04:23
ShadowJKwhat do you do to it..04:23
ShadowJKmine just keeps running ;)04:24
rasterShadowJK: stick it in a pocket. use it to make calls. thats about it.04:24
ShadowJKwtf :)04:24
rasterthe odd webpage here and there04:24
nomisOmweather update: now it can't decide if it supports 4 or 5 stations. Grmbl.04:24
rastergui keesp doing that "Reset itself" thing04:24
nomisbut *maybe* the GPS issue is fixed...04:24
ShadowJKI use mine for idling on 30 irc channels, browse internets, sometimes 40+ windows open, use it for download podcasts on gpodder, including videos for youtube...04:25
rasterthe "incredibly rare opengles memory bug"04:25
rasterie happens 10 times in 5 minutes04:25
rasteror more04:25
ShadowJKah the "it only happens for you so we can't fix it"-type of bugs :(04:25
rasteri've been hit by the "stuck dot" problem after it totally crashed badly and rebooted about 10 times04:25
rasterthus the reflash04:25
Funnyfaceare you trying to scare me into not getting one, or is this issues you've actually had? :P04:26
rasterShadowJK:  they happen to toehr people. it just happens to me on a daily/hourly/minutely basis.04:26
ShadowJKsucks :(04:26
dockaneme uses n900 for an average request of 10 websites per day, half and half done via umts and wlan, 2-3 calls and 2-3 h mp3 playback. baterrey has to be reloaded every 1.5 days04:26
johnsu01Mine had the stuck dot probably when I first got it, but flashing it has fixed it04:26
rasterjohnsu01:  yeah. flashing fixes it.. until it happens again04:27
johnsu01it's been very stable since, at least as stable as symbian on my old e6104:27
ShadowJKI think I've had one unexpected reset/reboot in total since getting it in december :)04:28
rasteralso the sdk so far is pretty arsetastic04:28
rasterdownload and install pere instructions04:28
rastercomes up with no sbox emulation method set04:28
rasterso nothnig compiles04:28
rasterfan-bloody tastic04:29
ShadowJKdunno, the SDK is somewhat easier than installing codesourcery and figuring out how to manually crosscompile random things :)04:29
rasteru ned up fiddling and guessing - usntalling some extra qemu packages on host it didnt04:29
rasterthen u can finally select a cputransp method as its offered in sb-menu04:29
ShadowJKbut then again I just downloaded the ubuntu vm image with the sdk already setup04:29
rasterand.. it still doesnt set the emualation method env04:29
Funnyfacehow long do you reckon the N900's battery lasts at 100% CPU load then? :p04:29
rasteru set it by hand and not things compile but dpkg/apt barf witn invalid instruction issues04:29
Funnyfacee.g. if you were to leave it encoding video in your pocket..04:30
johnsu01huh, never noticed any issue with it, and I've set it up twice now and am not exactly a pro at this stuff04:30
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC04:30
*** jabis has joined #maemo04:30
rasterFunnyface:  screen on or off?04:30
rasterjohnsu01: it's never set up qemu emulation for me - and i've instaleld it 3 times04:30
ShadowJKFunnyface, if I had to guess, 4 hours04:30
ShadowJKmaybe 604:30
Funnyfacethat's good then04:30
rasterFunnyface:  my guess is 4hrs with screen off maybe 504:31
rasterscreen on - 3... maybe.04:31
FunnyfaceI hope these hong kong sellers will put up high capacity batteries and back covers on ebay soon :p04:31
Funnyface2700mAh batteries or so :>04:31
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo04:31
ShadowJKcostly :/04:31
johnsu01I'm pretty sure mine would die much quicker than that -- it's only good for about an hour of bluetooth tethering (but I think I got a defective battery)04:32
rasterlet me try this sdk install.. for try #404:32
FunnyfaceI paid like $12 for the high capacity battery for my old phone04:32
ShadowJKThe problem with N900 is that there are a shitload of clueful users, mugen can't just put out a "3000mAh" battery, because the users would quickly figure out it isn't 3000 :)04:32
ShadowJKIt's kinda scary really.. Mugen is highly regarded as the best provider of third party batteries... but the "1800mAh battery" I got from them for my N800 turned out to advertise itself (to the device) as 1200mAh, and in my test, it tested as 1200 :)04:33
rasterwonderful waste of money there04:33
ShadowJKMind, it's a Li-Ion so it's holding up better with age than the original Lithium Polymer batteries for N800 and N810 :)04:34
rasterFunnyface: invariably capacity increases will mean size increases04:34
rasterso generalluy a high capacity baery is really not possible to stick inthe same space04:34
Funnyfaceraster: yeah it'll need a thicker back cover04:34
rasterunless they have a massive improvement in battery tech stuck in there - which is realtivelt unlikely04:34
rasterFunnyface:  yup.04:34
rasterif u can make it bigger -0 then you can double the capacity...04:35
Funnyfacealso, I believe when you have a double capacity battery, it'll last for longer than twice as long04:35
ShadowJKLike, if you buy an original Nokia battery from some random e-tailer, chances are the battery has sat on the shelf for so long that its actual capacity is below the Mugen's 1200mAh... And certainly, if you buy the mugen because you've owned the N8x0 for awhile, discovered more things to use it for, but want more battery life, then chances are the fresh Mugen at 1200mAh will have more capacity than the original old nokia that was 1500mAh a year ago :)04:35
Funnyfacebecause small batteries struggle at delivering peak power efficiently04:35
Funnyfaceif you run all the power consuming features at once on the normal battery, and that means 30% losses in heat, a double sized battery (of equal quality) will mean only 15% losses04:36
ShadowJKAgain using my N8x0 as example, because I've got a fairly accurate metering setup there, there's about 10%-20% difference (with a slightly aged battery) between use as media player (high drain) and idle internet chat (medium drain) :)04:36
*** FSCV has joined #maemo04:37
rasterok q04:38
rasterhow do u install the sdk?04:38
DocScrutinizerthis eten bat extender is ridiculous. in 7mm full plane the could have packed a 3500mAh easily. And I wonder how tF the main cam is supposed to work04:44
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: huh? LiPo aging faster than LiIon?04:45
Dantonichey if I create a desktop icon under /usr/share/Applications/hildon  how can I assign it a category so that Catorize can place it under one?04:46
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yes04:47
ShadowJKWell, atleast the mugen/eten batteries age slower in my use :)04:48
ShadowJKspeaking of...04:48
ShadowJKit's the last few days to preorder N900 extended battery at the "special" price..04:49
*** ferdna has joined #maemo04:49
DocScrutinizerthat may explain a bit. My 6210 battery was at maybe 75% after 8 years of 24/7 use04:49
ShadowJKI suspect the camera in worst case will be a transparent window04:50
FunnyfaceI will order the N900 tomorrow then :)04:50
ShadowJKwith no moving parts04:50
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: ack04:50
DocScrutinizerI don't want that bulk04:50
ShadowJKIt's better than my previous bulk... E70 plus AA-battery-powered booster :)04:51
*** kimitake_idle has quit IRC04:51
ShadowJKthe booster use with N900 is kinda hard04:52
DocScrutinizerI'd prefer to drill 2 1mm holes to the original backlid and build a DIY piggyback to hold a number of AAA04:52
ShadowJKlike, I used to plug/unplug the booster when taking the device out of pocket, etc04:52
DocScrutinizerto snap on04:52
ShadowJKbut with the microusb the damn plugging/unplugging takes ages to not only align the plug, but also rotate it...04:53
ShadowJKthey should really have added some plastic bits to the hole to guide it into the receptable04:53
ShadowJKinstead of just leaving the hole, and then the smaller metal hole of the receptable...04:53
DocScrutinizerhrey fsckng should have added 3mm barrel charger receptacle04:54
ShadowJKthe plug goes in, but you only just cleared the plastic and you're pushing the plug against the exterior metal shell :(04:54
DocScrutinizermaybe the 1mm like on n81004:54
ShadowJKi think they call it 2mm04:54
ShadowJKMy E75 has both 2mm and microusb charging... the 2mm was usable for "slide phone into pocket and connect charger at the same time"04:55
ShadowJKThey published a spec for it and called it 2mm charging spec, so there :P04:55
DocScrutinizeranyway, we got none. Just bloody usb charging04:56
DocScrutinizerand no hostmode :-(04:56
ShadowJKand no ponies :(04:56
ShadowJKiirc the original backlid wasn't all that expensive04:58
*** taylorqt has joined #maemo04:58
*** promulo has quit IRC04:58
ShadowJKthere's the issue of finding a shop that will sell it, but..04:58
nomisI wish the backlid would not have this weird bump around the camera. (I know it is a stand, but I'd prefer the device lying flat on the table...05:01
DocScrutinizernomis: 100% ack05:01
*** cbrake has quit IRC05:01
DocScrutinizerdesigner's epic fail05:02
*** taylorqt has left #maemo05:03
DocScrutinizerbut recently designers seem to tend to the notion the device _never_ sits on the table and you still would like to operate it05:03
nomisif I'd have a spare back I'd probably experiment with adding additional bumps for stability.05:03
DocScrutinizerthere's a lot of current designs with egg shaped backside05:04
nomisyeah, I totally don't understand that.05:04
ShadowJKI don't dare use it with the stand open either, it looks way too weak05:05
rasterstand is rather useless beyond just having it display05:05
DocScrutinizerdesigners obviously giving a shit about real world usage patterns. I've seen a hell of this at some company I won't name here05:06
*** Sargun has quit IRC05:06
acidjazzany new apps05:07
acidjazzworth mentioning05:07
acidjazzhow muhc longer is the n900 gonna be supported? whens the cutoff day?05:07
DocScrutinizeracidjazz: pleeeease don't start another meego killed N900 rant05:08
acidjazzare they going to send out a signal that just shuts all n900s down05:08
nomisacidjazz: they have to, because it does not contain an x86 processor.05:09
acidjazzor maybe just turns them into new n950 buying devices05:09
rasterno.... i am!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA05:09
*** stevenhong has joined #maemo05:13
*** Sherif_Alaa has joined #maemo05:13
DocScrutinizerraster: btw cell technology seeing improvements every other week. It's not such an unlikely thing to see batteries with higher capacity same formfactor05:13
Sherif_Alaais tarek here05:13
Funnyfaceone more thing, what sort of options are there for using the N900 as a modem for hooking up to a PC?05:14
Funnyfacewithout third party programs05:14
*** Andy80 has quit IRC05:15
DocScrutinizeropion 1: use the pc mode coming by default05:15
*** tonikitoo has joined #maemo05:15
*** type_t has quit IRC05:15
*** JoeBrain has quit IRC05:16
DocScrutinizerU seen the requester popping up when you plug the USB to PC?05:17
DocScrutinizer"mass storage" / "PC-suite Mode"05:17
raster]do not the kind fo improvements u see in silicon (doubling capacity every year or 2)05:17
Funnyfacenope, I haven't ordered mine yet :P05:17
*** Sherif_Alaa has left #maemo05:17
Funnyfaceooh, yes I have seen that on "regular phones"05:17
rastermass storage should be kiled for such devices05:18
rasterstupid idea05:18
*** lcukn900 has joined #maemo05:18
rastershould always be "usbnet"05:18
raster+ samda/nfs05:18
raster(and ssh and ... (http. ftp, etc.)05:18
DocScrutinizeresp since it makes up for the need to have VFAT on 28GB of the mass storage :-(05:18
*** JoeBrain has joined #maemo05:18
rasterno good reason not to do this05:18
DocScrutinizerwell, you could mkfs.ext3 on the /home/MyDocs, if only... (/me frowns) cam borks on non-VFAT fs - WTF??05:20
*** Termana_n810 has joined #maemo05:21
DocScrutinizermaximum stupidity05:21
lcukn900is there a bug report for that?  the apps shouldnt know nor care?05:22
Funnyfacebtw, wifi access point could be great for places where you have poor signal strength to the mobile network :P05:22
rasterbug report should be "you used fat... thats just silly!"05:22
Funnyfaceso you can put the phone in a good spot without needing a long cable :>05:23
*** JoeBrain has quit IRC05:23
lcukn900well can see the  point of fat05:23
rasteri cant05:23
lcukn900windows and peoples expectations05:23
*** Wild_Doogy has joined #maemo05:23
rasterlcukn900:  as aboive. dont do mass storage. you have a non-dumb device with a non-dumb host05:24
rastereven if host is windows05:24
rasteruse usbnet + cifs (sambda) network file sharing05:24
rasteror nfs for mac/linux guys if they like (no harm in offering both)05:24
nomisa file based usb storage class is something that needs to be invented.05:24
rasternomis: microsoft did already05:24
lcukn900the n900 acts pretty much like 99pc of cams and phones and devices05:25
rastererr what was it called?05:25
nomisraster: there is PTP, but it is very much tailored to specific file types.05:25
rasterthat was it05:25
rasterlcukn900: if 99% of sheep jump off a cliff - then it must be a good idea to do the same. right?05:25
DocScrutinizerraster: know the best of the whole joke? VFAT needs to umount for mass storage XP05:26
nomisah right. Slightly extended PTP. But why tf did they focus on media files?05:26
rasterdo yes. makes sense ar eu are dealing with a device on the block level05:26
lcukn900when we are talking billions of devices - momentum is huge, so most likely yeah05:26
raster2 machines working on the same set of blocks with an fs on top is going to screw it up completely05:26
rasterusing the nfs method will remove that need05:26
rasterlcukn900: there is no NEED to do it that way05:27
rasterlcukn900: you plug in and your phone for 99% of the world will appear as a file share on your network05:27
rasterthat includes windows, mac and linux users05:27
rasterand it will work just as well as mass storage05:27
rasteractually better as there is no unmounting needed05:27
rasterthus the dev ie should be able to appear more quickly05:27
rasterand both phone and pc can access the files., modify etc. at the same time05:28
*** tonikitoo has quit IRC05:28
DocScrutinizerraster: (block) what I say05:28
lcukn900when we are talking billions of devices - momentum is huge, so most likely yeah05:28
lcukn900keep with the old and the new05:28
rasterlcukn900:  it doesnt mattere about billions of devices, momentum.. its WRONG05:29
lcukn900up arrow on n90005:29
lcukn900i typed something conpletely different05:29
rasterthere is another way that is just as convenient, useful, compatible etc. AND has none of the associated vfat/mass stroage/mount/unmount pr5oblems etc.05:29
rasterif your devivce is DUMB05:30
lcukn900i would like to see a fat wrapper that allowed current style access but using whatever fs is actually on use05:30
rasterits some 8bit microcontroller PIC05:30
rasteror some tiny rtos - ro just a thumbdrive etc.05:30
rasterit cant manage a whole tcp stack. network file sharing etc.05:30
rasterwhen its a phone that runs linux on it.. it can - trivially.05:30
rasterdont bother05:31
raster1. very complex05:31
nomislcukn900: I actually implemented a virtual FAT32 filesystem on an avr32 based platform.05:31
raster2. problematic and will have so many bugs that u will see files corrupted/lost and the fs otherwise mangled if u try and emulate a block device with a fat fs and back that with a real fs etc.05:31
rastertotally pointless05:31
lcukn900nomis really?  was it practical?05:32
rasterwhen u already have a solution - right there. samba and network file shares05:32
nomislcukn900: it works neatly. The problem starts, when file data changes - there is no way to notify the usb host that it should discard cached data.05:32
rasternomis: let the problems begin :)05:32
lcukn900isnt that the same with fat05:32
DocScrutinizersftp for linux, ftw. forget nfs05:33
rasterbecause fat assumes a block device05:33
DocScrutinizeraka FUSE05:33
rasterand a block device doesnt change conent unless the user of that device - the os with the fat fs, changes it05:33
nomislcukn900: well, that is why the FAT gets unmounted on the n900 when entering mass storage mode.05:33
rasterso consistency works05:33
DocScrutinizererr sshfs/FUSE05:33
rasterDocScrutinizer: why forget nfs? its there. knfsd - cheap and works on every linux.. and mac box05:33
rasteru can do sshfs if u want as well05:34
DocScrutinizernfs has issues05:34
rasterbut nfs is low overhead05:34
DocScrutinizerstale locks etc05:34
rasterminimal effort and workd05:34
lcukn900nomis assume that there was the same limitation05:34
rasterDocScrutinizer:  dont allow locking. i disable it on mounting05:34
lcukn900but a way to put fat face on for who needs it and also to allow raster his net based stack05:34
rastermount -t nfs -o noac,actimeo=10,intr,timeo=5,retry=1,nolock05:35
*** Sho_ has quit IRC05:35
rasterlcukn900:  you dont NEED fat once u have the network fs05:35
rasterlcukn900:  every windows box that can do usb sotrage can do network fs05:35
lcukn900raster yes, when i plug my camera i05:35
nomislcukn900: you have to ensure that the filesystem content does not change, then you can export it into a virtual (readonly) fat.05:35
rasterKEEPINg mass storage keeps problems05:35
lcukn900only for those that dongt use it05:36
DocScrutinizerraster: we *have*. And like I said: we could do mkfs.ext3, if only... (*vomit*)05:36
rasterlcukn900: i am not saying to change your desktop. i am saying to change the DEVICe05:36
rasteryour n90005:36
lcukn900to change to net alone involves changing all devices05:36
rasterlcukn900:  no it doesnt!05:36
rasterit does NOT05:36
rasternot not not not not05:36
rasteryou change the n900 (for example)05:36
rasteras its smart enough to run a network filesystem05:37
rasterthe hosts it plugs into - as its a usb gadget, udnerstand this protocol already05:37
rasterthey are already set up and ready to go to use it05:37
rasterin fact ready enough were u just get an icon in your file shares05:37
rasteryou dont have to change any other device anywhere on the planet05:37
lcukn900what other devices use it05:37
nomisraster: except that a networked filesystem over USB is a huge usability problem for >90% of the users.05:37
nomisheck, even the usb network itself is.05:38
rasternomis: how? on windows, mac and linux your remote host will be brought up - if you solve the "configure the ip asddress" problem (run a dhcpd on the device that advertises an ip, but no gatewaye or dns)05:38
rasterso it will come up - auto-configure ip05:39
lcukn900and usb networking from n900 to any of my computers requires a wizards hat and a spell book05:39
nomisraster: tell that to my grandma.05:39
rasterthen u advertise a network file share - which on peoples boxes will show upas an available share05:39
lcukn900they wont look there05:39
Termana_n810lcukn900 - don't forget the dead chicken05:39
nomisraster: you don't need to explain the idea to *me* - I get it.05:39
lcukn900all the software for win looks in drive letter05:39
rasterwell for n900 its even better05:40
rasteru dont even have to plug it in05:40
lcukn900that i know of05:40
rasterits on your wifi05:40
rasterirf you are even at home your n900 will appear as a share05:40
nomisraster: yeah, that would be the more straightforward way.05:40
rasterlcukn900:  network file shares are also driver letters05:40
nomisif you assume a working Wifi/Network infrastructure.05:40
lcukn900raster i agree. a better way exists.  but to ignore a backup standard is folly05:40
rasternomis: even without one. plug into host. host sees usb network device. a windows/mac/linux host will send a dhcp request05:41
rasterdhcpd on the n900 hears it and configures up usb net device so its a local loop only - no gateway etc. etc.05:41
rasterjust ip addr05:41
lcukn900allow both! i like network interface05:42
lcukn900it would speed up ssh05:42
rasterlcukn900:  u cant do both05:42
lcukn900for dev05:42
rasteronce u do mass storage the filesystem can only exist in 1 place05:42
rastereg on the pc mounted05:42
*** plwan has joined #maemo05:42
rasteror on the device05:42
rasterand the pc cant see the fs05:42
nomisraster: you know, there *is* this dialog that allows for selecting a USB client role.05:42
lcukn900ismt this almist what we have05:42
lcukn900option on pluggin05:43
rasternomis: i'm saying that there isnt a point05:43
lcukn900just without the cloak over fat05:43
rasterright now u need it because the n900 DOESNT offer usbnet auto-configure and fileshareing05:43
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:43
lcukn900my battery is dying05:43
ali1234the problem is that "pc mode" lacks automatic filesharing capability, nothing more05:43
rasterits all already out there - it's just unused05:43
ali1234the irony is that mass storage mode only exists for windows users05:43
ali1234and that automatic filesharing would be easier for everyone05:43
ali1234and that windows is claimed to be "easy for grandma"05:44
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:44
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:44
ali1234when it is actually the worst and hardest to use :)05:44
DocScrutinizerapt-get install samba05:44
rasterali1234:  correct. if pc mode had auto file shareing u wouldnt need mass storage (except for rare situations where u can manually ask for it as opposed to have to ask for it every time u are plugged in)05:44
nomisali1234: how do you transfer files via USB when in PC suite mode?05:44
ali1234nomis: you don't, because nokia didn't bother to implement it05:44
lcukn900gnite \o05:45
nomisali1234: ok, I misunderstood you then.05:45
raster*IF* nokia shipped with samba AND had it configurted to "asdvbertise file share on usb0 network always without permissions.restrictions"05:45
ali1234nomis: or oyu use pc suite if you enjoy the pain05:45
rastererr advertise05:45
DocScrutinizerastnah I can't as I want to get rid of that bloody VFAT then05:45
DocScrutinizerraster: ^^05:45
rasterdo install samba?05:45
rasterDocScrutinizer: install samba?05:45
DocScrutinizeroffer mass storage05:46
rasterDocScrutinizer:  u mean u cant get rif of it because u need vfat because of camera?05:46
luke-jrit should just emulate a USB hub with both mass storage AND networking...05:46
Termana_n810luke-jr - is it ok to PM you?05:46
rasterluke-jr: u cant.05:46
luke-jrTermana_n810: yeah, but I might not see it :P05:46
luke-jrraster: u can. :p05:46
rasterDocScrutinizer:  thats another issue - bug in camera stuff05:46
nomisluke-jr: no need for a hub. You can implement multiple classes within a device. The PC suite mode does this.05:47
luke-jrnomis: but does Windows support it sanely?05:47
rasterluke-jr:  u cant. u cant BOTH mount a mass storage device AND offer it via file sharing over a network05:47
rasterits a file system and cn be mounted 1 place only05:47
ali1234actually you can do mass storage and networking at the same time but the problem is that you can't have the partition mounted while it is in user for mass storage05:47
DocScrutinizerraster: if that bug weren't there I'd not have any VFAT to mass-storage-share05:47
luke-jrraster: I didn't say to offer it over network05:47
nomisluke-jr: well, it has to. Otherwise the pc suite mode would not work on windows :)05:47
ali1234also mass storage does not preclude the use of other filesystems05:47
rasteru can try and add fat emulation layers on top of a real host os - u will have lots of troubles05:47
*** mschr has quit IRC05:47
ali1234it's windows that does that05:47
luke-jrraster: I said to offer it as mass storage, AND also provide network connectivity05:47
*** djdm has quit IRC05:48
rasterluke-jr:  u can do both of those - sure. i'm not talking that. i'm talking the need to have to have a choice at all and to only provide network mode and over a network u can do everything you need - and do it seamlessly too05:48
* nomis heads for the bed. Night all.05:48
ali1234bluetooth already has this sealed up anyway05:48
ali1234you can use obex-ftp at the same time as any other service05:49
rasterali1234: DocScrutinizer is talking about the camera app on the n900 breaking if fs is not fat05:49
rasternothing to do with windows there05:49
ali1234yeah, that's another reason05:49
*** Wild_Doogy has left #maemo05:49
rasteri'm talking more about nuking the entire mass storage thing05:49
rasterand that removes the need for fat on the system as a result05:50
rasterand that lets you then choose whatever fs you like05:50
rasterand then the fs would likely not be fat (ext3 or something else) and then camera app likely would not break as it would not be assuming fat anymore but a real proper host fs05:50
luke-jrraster: better fat than ext305:50
rasterand just saying that network can do all the same functions as usb storage - almost as nicely for most os's05:51
luke-jrraster: Windows requires drivers for networking, I hear05:51
*** ferulo has quit IRC05:51
rasterinstead of stroage icon on desktop - u look in file chares instead05:51
rasterthats it05:51
*** iscribe has joined #maemo05:51
ali1234if anything you should blame the usb org for not implementing a file transfer profile :)05:51
rasterluke-jr: you can have a fat-on-loopback file05:51
luke-jrraster: why?05:52
rasterexpose that via usbstorage fir first time connect to windows and have an autorun.exe to install whatever u need05:52
luke-jrraster: my point is that ext3 on SD is a BAD BAD BAD idea :p05:52
*** nerfhrder has joined #maemo05:52
ali1234it is not worse than fat05:52
luke-jrraster: if I'm on Windows, I don't have rights to install anything05:52
luke-jrali1234: on SD it is05:52
rasterluke-jr: has worked like a charm for me for years and years05:52
DocScrutinizerraster: heh U r stealing my ideas ;-D05:52
ali1234bah, i'm not going to argue05:52
rastermaybe you just have crappy sd cards :)05:53
*** nerfhrder has quit IRC05:53
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC05:53
*** kimitake has joined #maemo05:53
luke-jrraster: it's not a bug in the SD cards; it's assumptions ext3 makes that just don't hold true on SD05:53
rasterDocScrutinizer:  nokia already do it - they have an autorun.exe in the fat exposed over mass storage :)05:53
luke-jrmainly, ext3 assumes the block device writes things in order05:53
rasterluke-jr: ...05:53
DocScrutinizeraah yes05:53
luke-jrSD cards don't necessarily do that05:53
luke-jrso better to use ext2 or even fat05:54
DocScrutinizerraster: I thought of 3G usb sticks, which play mass storage to install drivers, then driver ejects and stick remounts (here as a modem)05:54
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo05:54
rasterDocScrutinizer:  good trick - for the windows world :)05:55
*** plwan has quit IRC05:55
DocScrutinizerraster: yup. Though they actually have driver for xandros as well there (the one I got with EeePC in TPE)05:55
ali1234yeah, another irony of windows. those 3g sticks use standard CDC-ACM profile, so do not technically need drivers05:55
*** tonikitoo has joined #maemo05:56
*** iscribe has quit IRC05:56
rasterluke-jr:  in reality u probably want something more like nilfs2 - but in my experience ext3 does perfectly fine - it's never screwed up on me. ext2 works too - tho with unclean mounting without fscks being.. rather bad05:56
rasteror doing the fsdk's being bad05:56
luke-jrraster: better than ext3 getting corrupt and you never finding out :p05:56
luke-jr"it's clean!"05:57
DocScrutinizerali1234: yep05:57
rasterluke-jr:  never has happened to me.05:57
luke-jrraster: as far as you know05:57
luke-jrraster: not to mention the high wear in the journal block05:57
rasterluke-jr: that does need to be fixed - that is true05:58
rasterthus why u mentioned nilfs205:58
* DocScrutinizer gives a shit bout wear05:58
DocScrutinizersomebody put it this way: "does it really matter when lifetime of the flash storage is reduced from 100 years to 10 years?"06:00
*** dockane_ has joined #maemo06:01
rasterwith 1k write cycles06:01
rasteror 10k even - it mattered06:01
rasterwith now 100k+ cycles..p its mattering less06:01
ShadowJKnilfs2 has been chewing my usb key for a few weeks06:02
*** tank-man has joined #maemo06:02
DocScrutinizerand even when a block wears out, so what?06:02
DocScrutinizerthat thing got spare blocks06:02
rasterShadowJK:  chewing?06:02
ShadowJKtwo weeks actually... averaging 700k/s write06:02
ShadowJKraster, the volume is at 85% full, the GC is having a fun time06:03
rasteri've never tried nilfs206:03
rasterbut it looks godo on paper06:03
ShadowJK840 gigabytes written to a 4gig flash device :-)06:03
ShadowJKwhen does it fail?06:03
* ShadowJK forgets how many cycles mlc is supposed to d06:04
* DocScrutinizer elects godo for geek word of March :-D06:04
rastersho these days 100k is standard06:04
rasterShadowJK: these days 100k cycles is pretty standard06:04
*** dockane has quit IRC06:05
DocScrutinizer*without* any wear leveling06:05
* ShadowJK blinks06:05
ShadowJKso at this rate my drive will fail in 18 years?06:06
Termana_n810Your mum doesn't do wear leveling06:06
DocScrutinizergerman computer mag c't did a test pretty some years ago. They tortured the sticks for months and couldn't wear a single block06:06
ShadowJKI actually have an SD card that I wrote 1 gigabyte per day to that failed silently06:07
ShadowJKsilently in the sense that it started to return corrupt data for about 8 sectors (SD-sized sectors) per gigabyte06:07
ali1234they got it up to 100k using ECC06:07
ShadowJKconstantly moving around :)06:07
*** Gizmokid2005 is now known as Gizmokid2005|AFK06:07
ali1234so your flash drives probably have errors all over them, but they are correctable06:08
Termana_n810ShadowJK - how long did it take to die?06:08
ShadowJK2 years or so?06:08
ali1234they probably had unwritable bits when you bought them :)06:08
ShadowJKIt was my mp3 card, new songs each day06:08
ShadowJKone day some files had garbled sections :)06:08
rasterShadowJK: 18 years.. if u continually write to it for 18 years... ? :)06:09
Termana_n810hmm, thats not so bad, considering it being just an SD card06:09
ShadowJKraster, 18 years at current nilfs-abuse pace I gather06:09
*** thomaz has joined #maemo06:09
ShadowJKTermana_n810, oh, it might not have been the flash itself that failed, it worked fine if I used a slow-ass cardreader to write to it06:09
rasterShadowJK: i'd say thats in the "i dont give a shit" land :)06:09
ShadowJKraster, indeed06:09
DocScrutinizerlet me put it this way: SSDs for servers get 5 years waranty06:10
ShadowJKTranscend's SD cards have "lifetime" warranty ;p06:10
DocScrutinizerI guess they know what they may offer06:10
ShadowJKactually the card that silently corrupts is transcend06:11
rasterShadowJK: did u ask for a new card?06:11
ShadowJKraster, thrown away the receipt long ago..06:11
DocScrutinizerthat's the point :-P06:11
ShadowJKplus, 1 gig card today costs... well you can't get them, but 2 gig costs like 5 euro?06:11
cehtehlifetime of you or the card?06:12
ShadowJKcehteh, I don't know, so I'll just assume the universe06:12
rasterShadowJK: bugger . it's nice to take up such lifetime offers... they seem so good when given.. i think they count on peole doign what u do - throwing away recipts/forgetting etc.06:12
luke-jr"we guarantee it will work until it fails!"06:12
DocScrutinizercehteh: of the card is nonsense :-)06:12
cehtehwell i think thats what they want06:13
ShadowJKluke-jr, you forget the standard guarantee language: "We guarantee the product shall be free of manufacting defects and workmanship defects", or something like that06:13
*** openstandards has quit IRC06:13
luke-jrwhen was the last time anything technological was free of manuf defects?06:14
rasterhas anyone packaged up lua for maemo?06:14
ShadowJKit dosn't include design defects06:14
luke-jrno, I mean manuf defects...06:14
luke-jrNAND tends to be expected to have bad blocks from the start...06:14
ShadowJKI guess if they're not marked as bad06:14
luke-jrdead pixels aren't very rare06:15
ShadowJK"Nokia warrants to you that during the warranty period Nokia or a Nokia authorized service company will in a commercially reasonable time remedy defects in materials, design and workmanship"06:15
ShadowJKthat's what nokia's europe warranty says06:15
DocScrutinizerthere's a chip manuf defined limit of defect blocks allowable for a considered good NAND06:17
ShadowJKthere's a standard for the defect pixels thing too06:17
DocScrutinizerthey also guarantee certain blocks being ok06:17
luke-jrShadowJK: that's a dumb one :P06:18
ShadowJKAlthough the nokia service manual has a one-row table listing the allowed number of defect pixels as 0..06:18
*** wizkoder has quit IRC06:18
Termana_n810People want us to invent a time machine - how can they expect that when we can't make error-free NAND.06:20
ShadowJKor error-free chips06:20
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's for QA for factory and repair. I guess that's not what they guarantee to customer06:20
Termana_n810Besides which is more important. ERROR-FREE NAND OF COURSE06:20
ShadowJKI don't even know what they guarantee the customer06:21
ShadowJKseems each service point have their different rules06:21
*** MadViking has joined #maemo06:22
cehtehi'd prefer ecc over error-freeness anyways06:22
ShadowJKmy sheevaplug's .5gig nand seems to have 4 bad blocks06:22
DocScrutinizer5 G nand ? o.O06:22
ShadowJKpoint five06:22
DocScrutinizer4 + 1?06:23
cehtehbut these controlers firmwares always seem a bit rushed out06:23
ShadowJK512 meg06:23
* ShadowJK isn't even using the nand at all06:24
luke-jrme either06:25
DocScrutinizerAlfa Romeo Meeto   X-P06:25
*** openstandards has joined #maemo06:29
*** adalal has joined #maemo06:34
*** Acedip has joined #maemo06:34
*** jef91 has quit IRC06:36
*** tonikitoo has quit IRC06:43
*** pupnik has quit IRC06:47
*** Erod has quit IRC06:49
*** UAE has joined #maemo06:51
DocScrutinizersshfs is awesome06:52
*** pupnik has joined #maemo07:02
*** tearms has quit IRC07:03
*** Vulcanis_ has quit IRC07:04
openstandardshas any one got a guide to setting up openvpn on the n90007:10
rasterman i havd to fuck with this maemosdk07:11
rasterits definitely not set up well07:11
lucentI've set up openvpn and it left me dumbfounded, can't help you even though I want to07:11
openstandardslucent, hard was it?07:12
lucentit was tedious07:12
lucentI wanted to interact with a security concept (iptables, openvpn) from a non-security point of view (GUI configuration, multi-platform deployment, computer illiterate users)07:13
lucentthat is never simple or easy in my experience to date.07:13
*** githogori_ has joined #maemo07:13
lucentopenstandards: openvpn client is not very bad07:14
openstandardslucent, theres a mod for smoothwall that does work with iptables and openvpn07:14
*** Termana_n810 is now known as Guest811607:15
lucentyeah I did use smoothwall but the openvpn integration (I tried this years ago) was like a mess of spaghetti shell scripts07:15
*** Termana_n810 has joined #maemo07:15
lucentnot saying anything about it now because I just don't know07:16
*** githogori_ has quit IRC07:16
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC07:16
openstandardsyeah thats what i'm looking to do, log into my network via that smoothwall mod07:16
lucentopenstandards: for most networking endeavors on N900 you will need "Dummy" network selection installed, it must be located from Nokia website with a unique download key... did you get that already?07:16
openstandardslucent, no07:17
openstandardswhats that07:17
lucentokay that much I can direct you to, let me find the linkage07:17
lucentdiscussion here ->
lucentstill looking for a more direct linkage07:19
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo07:20
lucentopenstandards: name of the file I'm searching for is libicd-network-dummy_0.12+0m5_armel.deb07:21
lucentopenstandards: found it!
lucentopenstandards: that link generates the key that you'll need07:24
lucentfollow directions at to install the actual deb07:24
*** mmgcs has joined #maemo07:28
*** zacattack_ has quit IRC07:28
mmgcsdoes the maemo 5 sdk support emulator support connecting to exchange 2007?07:28
*** stevenhong has quit IRC07:30
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:34
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo07:34
*** DocScrutinizer51 has quit IRC07:34
*** Docscrutemp has joined #maemo07:34
*** Docscrutemp is now known as DocScrutinizer5107:34
*** kik88 has quit IRC07:40
*** Termana_n810 has quit IRC07:41
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]07:42
*** bleeter has quit IRC07:45
*** dirtyrice88 has joined #maemo07:47
*** bleeter has joined #maemo07:47
mmgcsdoes the maemo 5 sdk emulator support connecting to exchange 2007?07:48
*** EspadaV8_L has joined #maemo07:49
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC07:50
cehtehmmgcs: it supports networking, but a lot apps dont work07:51
mmgcsi only see pop3/imap options in the emulator07:51
cehtehless in armel target .. its only meant for crosscompiling07:51
cehtehprolly the exchange conectivity programs are not part of the sdk07:52
mmgcsbummer, i'd like to make sure my provider, which is exchange 2007, works before shelling out 500 for an unlocked phone07:52
cehtehheh the emulator is not like the exact hardware07:54
cehteheven if it works on the emulator that wont tell anything about the actual n900 and vice versa07:54
mmgcsi understand that, just hoping for a basic test07:55
cehtehit has some exchange tools .. but well i dont use exchange07:55
rasterugh - exchange07:55
cehtehtry to get someone with a real device to test it for you07:55
rasterrecipe for pain07:55
cehtehwell imap isnt well supported on n900 either :(07:55
mmgcswish i didn't have exchange hosted but i had some really strange things with google and i got gun shy07:56
cehtehat least the stock mail client sux07:56
rasterthats perfectly possible07:56
rastermost stock email clients suck07:56
rastersomeone has a :must do email" checkbox on their things to work on07:56
rasterit doesnt include "make it not suck" in that checklist07:56
raster(invariably its simply time constraints)07:57
cehtehmodest looks like its designed and programmed by upper management :)07:57
cehtehmeans they have a secretary which sorts their mail and only forwards whats important07:57
mmgcswhen you start getting spam regarding specific stocks you invested in using schwab and you were using gmail it's time to get nervous - at least i did07:58
mmgcsso i pay for hosted email - the spam stopped07:58
*** droid001 has quit IRC07:59
mmgcsso... i want to develop on the n900 or similar device but i want to make sure i have mail, contacts, calendar before i shell out the money for an unlocked phone08:00
cehtehheh .. i guess its more how careful you about leaking your email to the public08:00
cehtehonce left out spam starts08:00
cehtehan i wont trust a provider enough to filter spam out08:00
cehtehrunning 'popfile' here, quite liking it08:01
mmgcsi know, i'm in the process of moving to my own private email server but it takes time08:01
cehtehpostfix & dovecot .. :)08:02
cehteh(and postgrey, to reduce at least the most trival spam attempts)08:02
cehtehthats my setup, works quite well08:02
mmgcsso what about calendar / contacts?08:03
cehtehi dont use the n900 for that .. well starting to used contacts, just imported from my old sim card08:03
cehtehinstead calendar i try to use emacs org-mode08:04
mmgcswell, the big 3 are critical to me, hence a quick decision to go exchange for now08:04
cehtehyes i cant help you much with this things08:04
mmgcsi travel enough to need something that isn't bound to a single box08:05
cehtehthe building things are basically working (contacts and calendar) .. they could be better but its ok'ish08:05
rasteri wish i could export my mh folders via imap... nicely...08:06
rasterthat'd be most loverly08:06
mmgcsi'm not a google fan and i've been in the C++ dev game for 15+ years so it's really appealing to me - i just want basic functionality before i dive in08:06
cehtehraster: maybe dovecot can do that?08:06
cehtehi was amazed how well it handles mboxes with indexing .. but finally switched to maildir08:07
rastercehteh: can it? i searched for a while - found nothing.08:07
rasteri'd just dearly like my sylpheed mh dirs to be available to devices - like n900's etc. that do image...08:07
rasterbut stil lkeep all my email nicely in its mh tree that i rsync around08:07
cehtehhow about doing that with maildir?08:08
mmgcstech is strange... i work on software that gets deployed on satellites but i struggle with finding what i consider to be simple solutions... argh08:08
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC08:08
rastercehteh:  mh is maildir - 1 file per mail. dirs for folders08:08
cehtehi thought thats slightly different08:08
rastersylpheeds adds its own .sylpheed-* cache files08:08
cehtehwell then yes dovecot handles it out of the box08:09
rasterso it can avoid scanning etc.08:09
mmgcsraster: do you work on geospatial solutions?08:09
*** Acedip has quit IRC08:09
rastermmgcs: ummmm no.08:09
cehtehdovecot makes its own .dovecot indexes or so (dunno exactly the names)08:10
rastercehteh:  hmmm.. it does?08:10
cehtehlemme look08:10
mmgcsinteresting, the name "raster" implies image analysis, gis, et cetera08:10
rastermmgcs: it implies image stuff.. thats about it :)08:10
cehteh/home/ct/Maildir# ls08:11
cehtehcur  dovecot-uidlist  dovecot.index  dovecot.index.cache  dovecot.index.log  dovecot.index.log.2  new  subscriptions  tmp08:11
mmgcsso, multimedia is more you game?08:11
rastermmgcs:  statistiucally theres much more "Raster" stuff in desktop gfx, art, games, hollywood than there is in geospatial solutions :)08:11
rasterso rather odd that u asked that :)08:11
*** AmateurEngineer has quit IRC08:12
cehtehhow is the e state?08:12
mmgcsraster: depends on whether you're talking commercial or "intelligence community"08:12
rasterfor every 1 "intelligence community" theres probably 1000's orf commercial people08:12
rasteras i said08:12
rasterodd that u asked that :)08:12
rastercehteh: hmmm err good? :)08:13
cehtehi mean release soon?08:13
mmgcsdepends on if you think you know what you know ;)08:13
rastercehteh: it will happen when it happens :)08:14
mmgcsregardless, it's all good :)08:14
rastermmgcs: i know what i know :) and i know that the commercial world is much bigger than the govt itelligence world by money and numbers... so.. as i said.. odd that u asked that :)08:14
cehtehof course .. just wondering, if there wont be so much progress, e17 would be a vaporware canditate :P08:14
rastercehteh: vaporware is software that is talked about but doesnt exist (cant be seen/used/ etc.)08:15
rastereq7 has never been that08:15
mmgcsah, i'm not talking bigger, i'm talking science08:15
cehtehi lost a bit focus, started with e many years ago, but using ion now :)08:15
luke-jrraster: not just software...08:15
rasterso by definition. it can never be vaporware as its source has been open since day 108:15
luke-jrPandora = vapourware :)08:16
rastermmgcs: science is much smaller than the commercial world :)08:16
cehtehhence i say there is so much progress but no release08:16
*** davyg has joined #maemo08:16
rasterluke-jr:  true. in a broader sense of the meaning.08:16
mmgcsnot a lot of games that can take hyperspectral imagery and figure out what's happening08:16
rastercehteh: h we are busy on the libraries. e isnt released because basically its not being worked on. the libraries (efl) are. thats where 95% of all the work is going08:17
*** tgalal_ has quit IRC08:17
*** dirtyrice88 has quit IRC08:17
rastermmgcs: that doesnt much matter... as i said - io find it curious that your immediate leap was into a very small niche field as opposed to picking a more obvious larger-populated one08:17
mmgcsraster: well i guess that's because $$ is not an issue for me at this time08:18
mmgcssmaller numbers providing the right software to the appropriate niche is way more profitable than mass market08:19
mmgcsjust my opinion and experience08:19
*** rlp10 has joined #maemo08:19
rastermmgcs:  issue as in you earn so much of it u just dont care? or you sit on a mountain of it? or that youa re more of an existential "it's all about the love and betterment of mankind dude" variety? :)08:19
*** DHR has quit IRC08:20
rasterok - so it's "you're making a mint selling to a govt niche" :)08:20
mmgcsraster: excellent!08:20
rasterfair enough08:20
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo08:20
mmgcsi'll fess up08:20
rasterhey - good on ya if u are08:20
rastergovts eat up enough of my money in taxes08:20
rasterneed to get them back somehow08:21
rasteri have my own methods of doing that08:21
mmgcsi'm board with my iphone and blackberry and am have been programming c++ for 15 years and i'm bored08:21
rastermmgcs:  fair enough08:21
mmgcsi have some ideas that i see as hobbies08:21
rasteri just want a phone i can code for and re-use my work invested on code already08:21
rasterthat rules android and iphone out08:21
rasterwebos too08:22
mmgcsi tried webos08:22
rastern900 so far is a pretty shitty phone - but beter than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick08:22
rasteri much prefer my prototype here on my desk08:22
rlp10raster: lol08:22
mmgcsi had some palm pre delivered - broken keyboards, unable to activate, lock ups08:23
mmgcsguess i'm backing myself into a corner08:23
bigbrovaranyone if the password manager package is compatible with keepass database?08:23
mmgcswork pays for an iphone, can't stand it08:23
rastermmgcs: hahahahaha08:24
rasteri'm wioth u08:24
rastertho i never had an iphone08:24
rasterbought one08:24
rasteror owned one08:24
rasteri refuse to08:24
mmgcshave a blackberry tour, slow and sluggish08:24
raster1. i just tend to avoid doing what the sheep do08:24
raster2. apple isnt developer friendly08:24
mmgcstried palm, couldn't get a device delivered that worked08:24
mmgcshave a friend who made some cash on android game dev08:24
raster3. my own software would violate the iphone dev rules anyway as it includes interpreters and ways of running logic - so i'm screwwed even if i accept all the other arsetastic restrictions08:25
rasterandroid is the "rewrite it in our flavor of java and you're ok"08:25
rasterhooray - and lets not have a jit while we're at it shall we>?08:25
mmgcsnot doing android for me08:25
raster(have they added a jit now?)08:25
rasterscrewed iof i'm rewrtigin in java (and their native sdk stuff is useless)08:26
rasteras such i like linux08:26
cehtehmy wife telephoned with a friend some time ago, that was like "We have a n900 now, just watched a movie on TV played back on its AVout" .. "Oh iphone cant do that?, well with only 4GB movies make no sense anyways" .... "Oh i am sorry to hear that you forgotten to cancel your contract"08:26
rasterits comfy - its good. it works. so - my phone needs to be it too08:26
rlp10Is there a maemo vm that I can demo using Maemo on my desktop?08:26
mmgcsme too, long time gentoo dabbler08:26
rasterrlp10: no. not full vm. just sdk+scratchbox qemu+xephyr etc.08:27
*** rohanpm has left #maemo08:27
rastermmgcs: well i'm happy. i get paid by samsung to work on e + their new products...08:27
mmgcsso, long story short, i guess there is no way i can test my exchange with the emulator08:27
rasterso it's all good08:27
cehtehhehe nokia should setup a cluster of n900 and export then via vnc08:27
mmgcsraster: sounds like a good gig :)08:27
rasterthe os is becoming just what i want.. mostly because i kick people there whenever i find things i dont like08:27
rlp10cehteh: that would be cool08:28
rlp10raster: sorry to be dumb, but what's a scratchbox?08:28
cehtehenvironment for crosscompiling with less pain08:28
mmgcsa rectangular scrotum? kidding!08:28
rlp10mmgcs: lol08:29
cehtehsome scripts, chroots, qemu, gcc an stuff08:29
rlp10cehteh: And then you can run under qemu?08:29
cehtehit starts qemu transparently08:29
rlp10cehteh: And is the qemu just the app, or is it the whole maemo os?08:30
* cehteh recently tried to put the sdk (armel) in a chroot on the device .. which failed because the crappy FAT fs cant handle symlinks 08:30
cehtehtime to reformat08:30
rasterrlp10: what he said :)08:30
cehtehqemu is a emulator ..08:30
cehtehbit like vmware but real emulator so you can emulate ARM hardware on a x8608:31
cehtehbut lacks all the special stuff of the n900 of course08:31
rlp10ok, thanks guys for your patience08:31
rlp10I've dabbled in development, and am making decision whether or not to purchase a n90008:32
cehtehhey .. if any of you guys is bored, how about stracing the camera app and write a LD_PRELOAD lib which overrides the FAT filesystem check?08:32
luke-jr(probably *not*)08:32
* luke-jr runs08:32
DocScrutinizercehteh: sounds like fun08:35
arachnistcehteh: lol @ "my wife telephoned ..." ;)08:35
rlp10Anyone hooked a n900 up to a projector?08:35
DocScrutinizerduh, why a projector?08:36
*** DangerMaus has joined #maemo08:36
cehtehwith av out .. should work08:36
arachnistrlp10: i did, at work.08:36
cehtehbut the quality is not that good08:36
DocScrutinizerI know. It's not even good on my 33'08:36
lucentrlp10: it's only composite08:36
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC08:37
rlp10Ah, thanks for the feedback08:37
cehtehis the av out just always a clone of the screen or has it its own graphic sytem .. meaning would dualscreen be possible? :)08:37
rasterDocScrutinizer:  why they didnt include an hdmi breakout - i dont know08:37
rasterperfectly possible08:37
cehtehraster: costs .. :)08:37
lucentraster: connector space would be a bit odd08:37
DocScrutinizersshfs isn't that awesome - when your connection stalls :-(08:37
rasterlucent: breakout - not an actual hdmi port...08:38
cehtehDocScrutinizer: -o reconnect08:38
DocScrutinizercehteh: hmm, thanks08:38
cehtehbut sshfs has a lot not so awesome things .. mostly fuse limitations08:38
cehtehstill useable enough08:39
DocScrutinizerwell, first of all even shell tab filename completion stalls the whole process08:39
arachnistDocScrutinizer: well, movies look quite well08:39
lucentbigbrovar: if you get keepassx, it works... I use keepassx on N900 from maemo-devel08:39
DocScrutinizerarachnist: depends on your expectations, I guess08:39
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo08:40
arachnistDocScrutinizer: well, i haven't seen any other phone connected to a projector08:40
DocScrutinizerI'm one of the guys that hate DVB-T, due to the inferior abysmal quality08:40
*** disco_stu_N800 has joined #maemo08:40
lucentarachnist: Apple stuff will show on external display08:41
lucentiPod, iPhone...08:41
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i am bit proud bout the vpn and xchat setup i have now ... lots of fiddleing .. but it works awesomely .. xchat parallel on n900 and laptop .. seamless switching between networks .. the default configs didnt do that08:41
bigbrovarlucent: naa am a chicken I still to only extra repo.. N900 is my only phone now (smart or dumb) I hope to it to the edge once I get the N97 mini which I then use as a smartphone08:41
cehtehbtw where are you located will you be at CLT (Chemnizer LinuxTage)?08:41
* RST38h yawns and asks what is going on08:41
lucentbigbrovar: I understand, let me tell you though that keepassx is *working* on N900.  There is a problem, but it is only a visual issue, the height of text field widgets is too small for the font height08:42
bigbrovarcehteh: if only it can be more finger friendly.. xchat needs more freemantlization08:42
arachnistlucent: yes. but i haven't seen any phone actually connected to a projector. as in, being there, seeing it connected and not on the internet08:42
*** Terje1 has joined #maemo08:42
lucentarachnist: oh.  I beta tested the Microvision SHOWWX08:42
DocScrutinizercehteh: dunno08:42
*** disco_stu has quit IRC08:42
cehtehbigbrovar: ack .. but nag someone else, i did my xchat job :)08:42
lucentit works with Apple iPod connector and projects full motion video08:42
*** lmoura has quit IRC08:42
lucentthere's also an option for RCA style composite breakout08:42
cehtehnext problem i have is the camera and fat ...08:42
bigbrovarcehteh: I am not naging just stating my experience :)08:43
*** disco_stu_N800 is now known as disco_stu08:43
* raster shakes his head08:43
cehtehbigbrovar: i configured it reasonable useable for the n90008:43
rastercomposite out is worse quality than the hvga screen..08:43
rasterwhy someone would use it.. beats me08:43
rasterletalone wvga08:43
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo08:43
raster(composite compared to wvga)08:43
bigbrovarcehteh: am sure lots of people appreciate you for it. :)08:43
rastershould have stuck in an hdmi framer ala beagleboard08:44
*** adeus has quit IRC08:44
lucentraster: yes... and host USB08:44
lucentwe can't have everything.08:44
rasteryes you can damnit!08:44
DocScrutinizerraster: cvbs *could* be good quality08:45
cehtehraster: considering the use cases (watching your own movies by hacking the hotel TV) composite is the best (most compatible) solution08:45
* raster presses the everything buttopn08:45
cehtehquality sux of course08:45
rastercehteh: more thinking that u can use your device as a pc replacement.. as long as u can find a usb hub for kbd+mouse to plug in and a screen with hdmi08:45
cehtehraster: someone did that already with bluetooth kb/mouse/tv ...08:46
RST38hcehteh: It looks like the image is contantly being copied to the TV display buffer about 4-5 times a second08:46
RST38hcehteh: Watching movies this way is kinda awkward08:46
rastercehteh: then all u need is proper display breakout :)08:46
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ack08:46
cehtehRST38h: definately not .. we watched movies on it .. that wroks08:47
cehtehraster: displayport?08:47
rastercehteh: that'd do too.. tho too "unsupported" atm08:47
RST38hoh it works but I would not watc a movie with it08:47
rastertoo new08:47
*** disco_stu has quit IRC08:47
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo08:47
cehtehRST38h: i mean with reasonable framerate08:47
cehtehlittle stutter .. but not 4-5 fps08:48
DocScrutinizerraster: thre are cheap adapters08:48
RST38hlook at moving ibjects, cars, trains08:48
*** lmoura has joined #maemo08:48
cehtehanyways .. phones with building projectors will come ..08:48
rasterDocScrutinizer: ure.. tho u end up with adaptors all over i guess08:48
RST38hyou will see that they move in little steps08:48
rastersomethng that would break out hdmi (dvi - or whatever some digitial video signal) and do it with a minimal plug/connector08:49
DocScrutinizerRST38h: and as movies are about movement, I'd rather not watch *any* video on N900 probably08:49
RST38hyes, I am afraid it is pretty nasty :(08:50
RST38hstatic images work ok though08:50
rasterhmm why not08:50
RST38hgaming is even worse than video08:50
*** disco_stu_N800 has joined #maemo08:50
RST38htoo much lag08:50
DocScrutinizerexcept for red bleeding08:50
*** disco_stu has quit IRC08:50
rastera dvd-quality movie shoul dbe able to be plaid back with no problems08:50
RST38hDocScrut: I see no red bleeding here, got an LCD panel08:50
*** disco_stu_N800 is now known as disco_stu08:51
* thresh waves08:51
RST38hraster: See above about image being contantly copied to a separate TV screen buffer08:51
* cehteh needs better encoding options for recoding to the n900 .. tablet encode didnt do well08:51
RST38hmoo, thresh08:51
cehtehRST38h: i think its not like that08:51
RST38hcehteh: Why do you need to recode for n900? Works fine without recoding08:51
cehtehRST38h: depends on the input08:51
cehtehnot dvd i mean .. others08:51
*** Termana_n810 has joined #maemo08:52
rasterhmm who sets $PATH...rt oof i mean on the screen of the n900 itself08:52
rastercopying to a tv out buffer is just silly08:52
rasterthat shouldnt need to be done08:52
rasteri suspect someone took the lazy way out08:52
RST38hthresh: Any idea what is with all these people requested authorization to see your ICQ status?08:52
DocScrutinizerRST38h: LCD here as well (33' TV) - but I guess it depends a lot on the actual analog input circuit (impedance etc)08:53
RST38hthresh: Seem to be real humans, never message08:53
threshRST38h: uhm, is not working, so probably their stupid clients are trying to authorize?08:54
threshIIRC my kopete also failed miserably to add a user a couple of days ago08:54
RST38hthresh: Ah, that's what it is...08:54
*** davyg has quit IRC08:55
rasterhorribly slow08:55
RST38hdo we need to know that?08:55
rasterdidnt nokia get texture-from-pixmap working right with gl apps too>?08:55
rasterarfe they doing software copies of the gl front buffer to the texture?08:56
DocScrutinizerraster: see? :-P08:56
*** Terje1 has quit IRC08:56
rasterooh dear08:57
rasterno bgra extension?08:57
cehtehmhm .. playing video mounted over sshfs :P08:57
rasterooooh rendering artifacts08:57
* RST38h is more interested by the fact that tv and lcd buffers seem to be separate08:58
DocScrutinizerwell, modern TV you can stream your movie via BT08:58
DocScrutinizerraster: that too, yes :-(08:58
RST38hmaybe mafw can be told to only show images in the tv buffer?08:58
rasteroooh bugs bugs bugs08:58
rasteroooh it doesnt render the app tile or close button08:59
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I heard that should be possible08:59
arachnistcehteh: i tend to play 720p videos over sshfs from my box at home when i'm at work on a night shift08:59
*** tchan has quit IRC09:00
*** ZogG has quit IRC09:01
rasterooooooh compositor is causing that rendering bug09:01
*** ZogG has joined #maemo09:01
*** tchan has joined #maemo09:02
DocScrutinizerraster: you're still with us?09:02
rasterhmm actually no it isnt09:02
rasteri correct myself09:02
rasterits something else09:02
*** RolaBlade has quit IRC09:03
DocScrutinizerN900 AV that is?09:03
*** MadViking has quit IRC09:03
*** RolaBlade has joined #maemo09:03
DocScrutinizerav connector, cvbs, composite09:03
rasteroh nono09:03
rasternot talking about that09:03
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo09:06
rasteractual rendering on the n90009:08
rasteri managed to miracrulously due to luck/persistence unbrick my n90009:09
rasteri've tried for the 5th time to get an sdk that works - finally with enough screwign around i can compile things.. and link to gl libs09:09
ljpi doubt it was bricked09:09
rasterljp: it was bricked09:09
rasterturn on - no response by orange light09:10
DocScrutinizerraster knows to brick things ;-P09:10
rasterno usb device appears on host09:10
rasterleave it plugged in for hourse or days - same result09:10
rasterplug, unplug, plug, unplug - same result09:10
DocScrutinizershiiit, how did you manage to resurrect it?09:11
rastereventually due to some luck i know not why.. it did turn on and presented a sub device09:11
rasteri started flashing09:11
raster70% thru - flash failed09:11
rasterback to step 109:11
rasterno life\09:11
rasterorange light09:11
rasteri just perservered and tried again09:11
rasterand for some reason now - it booted09:11
ljpthen it wasnt bricked :)09:11
rasterso i flashed it - this time worked09:11
rasterljp: thats bricked enough for me09:11
rasterno bootloader09:12
rasterno life09:12
rasternothng works09:12
rasterno output beyond an orange light09:12
DocScrutinizerraster: I really think you got a borked sample09:12
ljpi would suspect a dead battery is all :)09:12
raster(when plugged into usb - either wallcharger or pc)09:12
rasterljp: charging did nothing09:12
ljpleav it overnight?09:12
rasterljp:  left it for days09:12
rasterall day09:13
rastermultiple days09:13
DocScrutinizernot because it's been 'bricked' but more because of all the other things you told me09:13
rasterorange light comes on indicating it's detected current on usb09:13
ljpthey call that 'trickle' charging :)09:13
rasterso it should atkleast trickyl charge09:13
rasterbut it didnt09:13
ljpsounds like a certain neo problem too09:13
DangerMausyou got a quirky one it seems09:14
rasteri know about dead bats and trickle charging :) i've been thru the om wringer :)09:14
rasterDangerMaus:  i definitely did09:14
rasteri've been adding mameo-extras to the apt soruces and it seems a whole bunch of os updates have happened09:14
rasterthe extras has yet more updates it seems09:14
rasterits now on and working09:14
rasterplugged in :)09:14
rasterjust built efl for it09:15
rastertesting gl engine09:15
rastern900/maemo opengl-0es libs have.. bugs...09:15
rasteri'm tickling them09:15
rastercompositor seems to have bugs09:15
rasterdoesnt render title and close button for expedite09:15
rasterwell not unless i go away from window and come back eg hit top-left for app chooser)09:16
rastersoftware rendering works.09:16
Termana_n810raster - i think you mean tackling... i don't think you tickle these types of bugs09:16
rasterTermana_n810: no.. i just bitch. :) as gl-es is a closed binary blob.. thats all i will do :)09:16
*** ferdna has quit IRC09:17
*** trofi has quit IRC09:20
*** DangerMaus has quit IRC09:25
Termana_n810raster - most embedded GPU drivers are. i don't think i've really seen one that was open. i think openmoko's Glamo one is though. And the SmartQ one is err... open-ish (leaked)09:28
Termana_n810oh, the OMAP2420 one is open for the driver09:28
*** swc|666 has quit IRC09:29
rasterTermana_n810: i know all of those09:29
rasterthe glamo was a very 1/4 arsed gpu,. gl-es1.1 with absolute minimal features09:29
rastercouldnt even render att he res the gfx unit can drive09:29
rasterthe omap2 is an mbx - not open either. :)09:30
rasterthe smartq5 is the s3c6410 - yes, leaked, but no real implementations that work in the open. i have a fully working driver for it thats solid and does all the things - but thats an in-house effort.09:30
rasterand my other prototypes here are also sgx.. but driver src is within my grasp and ability to fix up :)09:31
rasterthe n900 one.. is not09:31
*** RolaBlade has quit IRC09:31
*** mmgcs has quit IRC09:31
*** DangerMaus has joined #maemo09:32
luke-jrraster: if it's in-house, could you release it? <.<09:32
arachnistsigned some nasty NDAs, right?09:32
rasteru dont get these babies without them09:32
rastereven if i didnt have nda's... DONT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!09:33
luke-jrwell, obviously Samsung isn't attacking whoever leaked the docs...? :P09:33
luke-jrand that's flat out Samsung IP09:33
rasterone thing leaking specsheets09:33
rasteranother leaking samsung copyright code that is the driver09:34
rasteror other things udner nda etc. etc.09:34
rasternot going to do it09:34
rasterit 1. violates nda09:34
luke-jrhow is it Samsung copyright code if it's in-house??09:34
raster2. violates a level of trust put in me09:34
raster3. vbites the hand that feed m309:34
rastererr bites09:34
rasterluke-jr: the s3x6410 driver is samsugnin-house driver09:35
rasterwell in-house to 1 division - samsung is a massive place09:35
rasterdont think of it as 1 company09:35
rasterthink of it as 30 companies09:35
luke-jrI thought you meant it was in-house for your company :p09:35
rastereach group will jealously guard their own code and work and products, etc.09:35
rastermy company is ... me :)09:35
arachnistmost of big companies are actually a few smaller companies these days, sharing little more than brand name09:36
DocScrutinizerbank of raster :-)09:38
DocScrutinizerraster: so you'll create a few images/videos to make the omap gfx go booom?09:40
rasterfixing some other code first09:40
rasterbut gl seems to have... issues09:40
rasterspee dis the first one i notice09:40
*** sivang has joined #maemo09:41
sivanghi al09:41
rasterthen just rendering bugs09:41
rastermissing stuff09:41
rasterno bgra extn09:41
rasteri think the sgx530 should handle bgra texture.. no?09:41
DocScrutinizerno idea what's bgra09:41
sivangfollowing to the instructions on the wiki for freeing up space for the latest Fremantle upgrae arenot that useful09:42
sivangI've everything there and nothing helped, plus I had no conflicting packages09:42
sivangI've now manualy apt-get dist-upgraded09:42
*** dottedmag has joined #maemo09:42
sivangshould I just restart the machine now ?09:42
DocScrutinizeryou should probably reflash09:43
sivanghow do I know if the reflashing worked like it does when OTA upgrade happes?09:43
sivangor does it not happen by iutself from apt ? :\|)09:44
DocScrutinizerheard apt-get dist-upgrade is... deprecated09:44
sivangnice that it is mentioned as a solution09:44
sivangand my upgrade bug was close since "the error message is apparent"09:44
sivangI am a *tad* disappointment09:44
luke-jrapt-get is deprecated :D09:44
sivangso what'snow ?09:45
DocScrutinizertar :-)09:46
sivangluke-jr: apt-get can now do mostly everthing aptitude does, specifically regarding dependency resolution, mvo/Keybuk ported most of it from aptitude to apt-get09:46
*** sheepbat has quit IRC09:46
*** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC09:46
sivangHow do I make my device show the latest PR update?09:46
luke-jrsivang: how about recording user-selected packages properly?09:46
sivangluke-jr: right, well, not yet:)09:47
luke-jrsivang: in any case, there is no need for apt anymore :)09:47
DocScrutinizersivang: actually doing a backup, then flashing a clean new system might be what you should do09:47
sivangI am afraid to install aptitude so my remaining space on rootfs will not vanishagain09:47
*** droid001 has joined #maemo09:48
sivangDocScrutinizer: if this is the solution, then we need to proactively prevent from users installing anything from extras.09:48
DocScrutinizerhuh? why hat?09:48
povbotBug 9089: Upgrading Maemo itself (nokia official recommended upgrade) failed with "no enough space" on target device.09:49
sivangah, nice stupid LG touchpad09:49
sivangwhat is going on wth synaptic touchpads these days? they have all gone mad.09:49
DocScrutinizerhmm, so what does that tell me, beyond what we discussed already?09:49
sivangDocScrutinizer: right, so if we want to have an OS that is supposed to reach *users* , not *power users* or hackers, this needs to be solved automatically09:50
sivangbut I gues that is something for MeeGo already....09:51
sivangoh well09:51
* sivang attempt a reboot of the machine09:51
DocScrutinizersivang: if you fill your rootfs with apps, and then install new versions which all are a few bits larger... what can HAM do?09:51
sivangDocScrutinizer: why areapps installed to rootfs the first place?09:52
DocScrutinizera good point09:52
infobotsomebody said optification was a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or
sivangseems like I hae a new splash screen and the ugrade and working nice09:52
DocScrutinizernevertheless /var and libs also tend to grow on each upgrade09:52
cehteh... note that just disabling all non-nokia repos often helps09:52
sivangcehteh: didn't help here09:53
rasterexpedite bug09:53
cehtehworked for me twice ..09:53
*** rlp10 has left #maemo09:53
rasterpeolpe chaning code to non-premul colors.. grrr09:53
cehtehwell this partitioning is really fucked beyond repair09:53
sivangvery nice09:53
sivangdespite the my frustration, apt-get dist-upgrade did the job nicely.09:54
sivangfirmware update success09:54
*** LuciusMare has joined #maemo09:54
*** zap has joined #maemo09:55
sivangso is there like an optification ongoing task ?09:55
LuciusMareHi, i'd like to report that my adblock plus does not work - it does not block any ads, and when i mouseover the flash plugins, no "block" shows there09:55
sivangare there more packags left that need optification ?09:55
DocScrutinizersivang: all in -devel I guess09:55
cehtehmhm which is the main cam  /dev/video0 or /dev/video1?09:56
LuciusMarecehteh: video009:56
sivangDocScrutinizer: okay then09:56
arachnistvideo0 here was the front facing cam, not the main one09:56
arachnistat least last time i checked09:56
sivanganybody has an LG T380 laptop around ?09:57
LuciusMarearachnist: main cam here09:57
sivangI wan't to install Ubuntu, but not sure with will happen splashtop09:57
sivangor Smart ON09:57
*** furunk3l has joined #maemo09:57
sivangas LG call it.09:57
sivang(this is a small linux distro that boots in les then 2 secs allowing to web IM and music play)09:58
sivangthe installation used to screw up thinpad's Access IBM,09:59
sivangbut it was never useful ;)09:59
*** ZogG has quit IRC09:59
LuciusMarewhyyy dont you listen to me, adblock?? :(09:59
*** ZogG has joined #maemo09:59
rasterhow do u ask for compositor to turn off?09:59
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo09:59
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo09:59
DocScrutinizer~kill adblock09:59
* infobot shoots a super-inverse electron gun at adblock09:59
rasteror is it off normally?09:59
sivanganywa , off to get some breakfast10:00
LuciusMareDocScrutinizer: thanks, it deserved it10:00
DocScrutinizerraster: if *you* don't know10:00
cehtehsay cheese!10:00
rasterDocScrutinizer:  its a maemo/holidon thing.. so.. i dont know :)10:00
rasteri understand that their compositor can turn itself off or on10:00
cehtehless /home/user/MyDocs/camtrace ... thanks :)10:01
DocScrutinizerraster: I don't even understand where to find docs *if* there were any10:01
*** hannesw has joined #maemo10:03
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has joined #maemo10:03
rastergoogle doesnt turn up much10:03
DocScrutinizerraster: that's the beauty of "the driver API is the doc, you don't need schem", just one level higher10:04
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC10:05
rasteri'd be happy with a doc that tells me10:05
rasteri bet its some proptertyy or x client message10:05
rasterjust need to know which one10:05
cehtehi read somewhere on t.m.o about this .. when going fullscreen you set some hint to turn compositing off10:07
rasterjust need to know what it is10:07
Stskeepsraster: look at hldon-desktop and clutter source10:07
rasteri'd like it off even when not fs10:07
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo10:07
rasterStskeeps: source! baaaah!10:07
SplasPoodhrm...  I have a bookmark that for whatever reason won't show up in the add bookmark list (when adding one to the desktop), anyone seen that?10:07
cehtehraster: how shall that work? the other elements on the screen are composited10:08
cehtehi mean yes it might work .. but i doubt its supported10:08
rasterStskeeps: ?10:08
rastercehteh: no reason it couldnt... u';d lose some alpha in situations10:09
cehtehyes thinking about the statusbar/clock and so on .. maybe these are rendered directly10:09
cehtehbut anything else, icons, windows, widgets are composited as it looks10:10
rastercehteh: well looking at a regular window being up10:10
rasterthere is no compositing here10:10
rasteror doesnt need to be in the nroma, case10:10
rastertheres the bar at the top with nothng overlapping the window itself10:11
rasterwindow smaller10:11
cehtehit might still be composited (at least so i thought)10:11
LuciusMareI give up, making thread on tmo10:11
*** rlp10 has joined #maemo10:11
cehtehwell you are the graphics programmer ... i dont know anything :P10:11
rastercehteh: wel i'm benchmarkign.. so i'd like for the compositor not to be adding overhead10:12
*** choppa has joined #maemo10:12
cehtehthe canonical way is do go fullscreen for that10:12
rasterbut all in all i can compare appls and apples... as i have another device that does composite too10:12
rastercehteh:  netwm fulscreen?10:13
*** rlp10 has left #maemo10:13
cehtehwhatevr :)10:13
rasterwell.. i'd hope so10:13
cehtehits so a small screen :]10:13
*** rlp10 has joined #maemo10:14
*** rlp10 has left #maemo10:14
* cehteh tries to take a nap10:15
rasterooh dear n900 definitely suffers10:15
rasterapples to apples comparison10:16
rasterwell as close as it gets10:16
raster(n900 vs my toy here)10:16
rasterboth compositing10:16
rasterboth using gl-es10:16
rasterboth running smae benchmark10:16
rasterboth with same resolutions creen10:16
rasterboth with wm/desktop adding "bars" aroudn app not allowing it the complete screen10:16
*** millenomi has joined #maemo10:17
rasternm900 is about 1/2 to 1/3 the speed10:17
rastersoftware rendering benchmark10:17
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo10:19
*** sar3th|away is now known as sar3th10:21
rastergod damned thats piss poor10:21
DocScrutinizerso odds are I'll not need to worry about crazy bouncing hopping spinning icons all over the place for a few more month - good10:22
*** anotnac has joined #maemo10:24
*** eMHa has quit IRC10:24
rasterlet me just let this baby run to completion10:26
*** Flyser has joined #maemo10:27
crashanddiejust randomly heard a car drive by, revving the engine, with "I love rock'n'roll" blasting, then squeaking tyres, and the sound of a metal bending and glass breaking10:28
crashanddieFrom down the street "I'm all right, I'm all right"10:29
rastersolid images borked10:29
rasteri wonder why...10:30
rasterDocScrutinizer:  152% faster on average10:32
raster(than n900)10:32
DocScrutinizeryou doped it :-D10:32
DocScrutinizerraster: well I prefer 0clock over gfx grunt all days10:33
*** |R has quit IRC10:34
rasterDocScrutinizer:  u have 0xlock on n90010:34
rasteractually i hope to have that too... i hear its being worked on10:34
DocScrutinizerthat's what I say10:34
DangerMauscrashanddie, they wont be doing that outside youe window for a while10:34
DocScrutinizernot on Ur proto's CPU10:34
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo10:34
rasterDocScrutinizer:  zeroclock for my proto - yes. being worked on10:35
rasterit already has cpufreq all working mostly happily10:35
DocScrutinizerdon't see how that SoC is going to implement 0clock10:36
*** LuciusMare has quit IRC10:36
DocScrutinizeryeah, cpufreq. But real 0clock is a different game10:36
rasteri know10:37
rasteri was told they can do it10:37
rasterand its on their plans10:37
rastereven if u dont do 0 clokc10:37
rasterif u go down to- like 1mhz10:38
rasteror something that is so low in power usage its virtually the same10:38
DocScrutinizeryep, 1MHz qite possible10:38
rasterso i cna run for 10 days - instead of 11 if u drop to 1mhz vs zero clock10:38
rasterat that point... its didums10:38
rasterwhatever gets u in that ballpark10:39
rasterie u can run without actually suspending10:39
DocScrutinizerI'd like to see 10 days with SIP10:39
rasterand use about the same power as suspending10:39
*** ljp has quit IRC10:39
rasterwell with wifi off, 3g off etc.10:39
rasteritd be doable10:40
DocScrutinizerthen you can suspend as well10:40
DocScrutinizeras with all IF down, there's actually very few to process10:40
*** |R has joined #maemo10:40
*** lbt has joined #maemo10:40
DocScrutinizerwell let's see how that samsung die performs, once you got a real system10:41
*** ljp has joined #maemo10:43
*** wormsxulla has quit IRC10:43
*** furunk3l has quit IRC10:45
*** alex-weej has quit IRC10:47
*** ljp has quit IRC10:48
Stskeepswhat was the reflow shortcut for microb again?10:49
*** DangerMaus has left #maemo10:50
*** wormsxulla has joined #maemo10:54
*** lbt__ has joined #maemo10:55
*** _Elwood_ has quit IRC10:56
*** Flyser has quit IRC10:56
StskeepsI it seems10:58
rasterDocScrutinizer: it is a real system actually - much like the freerunenr + debug board on the ribbon cable10:59
rasterjust no ribbon cabole10:59
rasterpcb is actually extended out the side with debug attachments on10:59
DocScrutinizerseen a GTA01 on a debug yigg pcb in your office in TPE11:00
DocScrutinizerprobably looked somewhat similar11:00
rasteranother example i guess11:00
rasterjust here its all made as 1 pcb11:01
rasterthere are versions without the thing out the side - all looking production-like :)11:01
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC11:02
DocScrutinizerwhen your next flight goes over D, drop one into my garden :-)11:02
DocScrutinizercandybar-bomber :-D11:03
*** eMHa has joined #maemo11:08
*** zacattack has joined #maemo11:08
*** Terje1 has joined #maemo11:12
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo11:14
*** Terje1 has quit IRC11:17
*** Mece has joined #maemo11:17
Meceis there a bug report about media player widget unpauseing paused music after a call?11:18
*** dvoid_ has joined #maemo11:20
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle11:20
*** lucas has joined #maemo11:21
*** Myrtti has left #maemo11:24
*** Myrtti has joined #maemo11:24
*** rdorsch has joined #maemo11:25
*** marmara has joined #maemo11:25
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC11:26
*** ZogG has quit IRC11:26
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo11:27
*** marmara has left #maemo11:28
*** ZogG has joined #maemo11:28
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has quit IRC11:31
*** Mece has quit IRC11:32
*** MarkBao has joined #maemo11:32
*** wazd has joined #maemo11:33
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC11:35
*** anotnac has quit IRC11:38
lucaswhat is the best way to play videos on the n900 which are larger than the n900 screen?11:38
lucasmplayer -vo x11 -zoom is kind of slow ;)11:39
fluxfor one, there is no avoiding decoding the whole video area anyway, so I'm not sure how much better can be done11:40
fluxbut I hope better than what -vo x11 does anyway :)11:41
*** raster_ has joined #maemo11:41
*** siri1 has joined #maemo11:41
*** raster_ has quit IRC11:43
*** raster_ has joined #maemo11:44
*** raster has quit IRC11:44
LynoureMobile dev camp today, but the Qt talk there is very basic "what is Qt"... so had to pull out my laptop11:45
timophgood. I don't feel bad anymore for missing the train to helsinki :)11:49
*** marcels has joined #maemo11:51
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo11:56
*** ZogG has quit IRC11:57
*** raster_ has quit IRC11:58
*** DangerMaus has joined #maemo11:59
*** raster has joined #maemo11:59
*** zap has quit IRC11:59
*** ZogG has joined #maemo11:59
*** Acedip has joined #maemo12:00
villagerlucas: it's generally a good idea to use -vo xv instead of -vo x11 on a regular pc, so probably also on the n900...12:02
villagerthat'll at least offload the scaling to the gpu12:03
*** Sargun has joined #maemo12:03
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo12:04
*** midas has quit IRC12:04
*** DangerMaus has quit IRC12:06
villagerusing the builtin gstreamer stuff will also offload the decoding to the dsp12:06
*** DangerMaus has joined #maemo12:10
lucasvillager: yes, but gstreamer apparently can't play the video I'm interested in, and I don't know how to debug it12:12
villagerlucas: ok... well, if you have to use mplayer, then like I said, try to at least use xv, not x1112:14
*** t_s_o has quit IRC12:16
*** sepultina has joined #maemo12:16
*** jpe has joined #maemo12:18
*** jsa_ has joined #maemo12:21
lucasapparently xv doesn't work if size(images from video) > size(screen)12:22
*** siri1 has left #maemo12:24
*** UAE has quit IRC12:25
ShadowJKI doubt you'll be able to sanely play videos bigger than screen on n900 :)12:28
villagerlucas: hmm, interesting12:29
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo12:30
*** cbrake has joined #maemo12:31
SpeedEvilShadowJK: what else is the composite out for?12:34
*** disco_stu has quit IRC12:35
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo12:35
*** disco_stu has quit IRC12:37
lucasapparently I'm hit by
povbotBug 8913: Media Player can't play "XviD ISO MPEG-4"12:37
*** marcels has quit IRC12:40
*** DangerMaus has quit IRC12:41
*** amjad1 has joined #maemo12:42
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo12:42
lucasso, if I want to re-encode the video so that I can play it on the n900, what would be appropriate parameters?12:43
*** Flyser has joined #maemo12:44
lucasah, found
ShadowJKThe composite hardly even does 800x480 :)12:45
ShadowJK800x480 h264 baseline 3.012:45
ShadowJKor something like that iirc12:45
SpeedEvilShadowJK: but 32>3.512:46
*** marcels has joined #maemo12:47
*** SWFu64 has joined #maemo12:48
*** lcukn900 has quit IRC12:50
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC12:50
*** promulo has joined #maemo12:50
*** DangerMaus has joined #maemo12:51
*** ceda has quit IRC12:52
threshoops ENOCHAN12:53
*** Acedip has quit IRC12:54
*** borism has joined #maemo12:56
Dantonicdoesnt that hurt?12:57
threshi think that bike has a suspension, plus his saddle has some too12:58
threshalthough i ocasionally get me kicked straight there on my 200mm susp bike :(12:58
Dantonicshould land on the pedals12:58
Dantonicwith feet on pedals12:59
Dantonicavoid the crotch slap12:59
threshthis usually happens when the slope is too steep and i'm almost riding on my rear wheel12:59
*** promulo has quit IRC12:59
*** zap has joined #maemo13:05
*** Dialekt has joined #maemo13:05
*** kkito has joined #maemo13:08
*** marcels has quit IRC13:09
*** BabelO has joined #maemo13:11
*** BabelO has quit IRC13:11
*** BabelO has joined #maemo13:11
*** oly has joined #maemo13:14
*** Dantonic has quit IRC13:19
*** jreznik has joined #maemo13:23
*** felipec has joined #maemo13:25
wazdheya all13:25
Stskeepslo wazdie13:26
*** zs has joined #maemo13:29
*** BabelO has quit IRC13:32
crashanddiethresh: something tells me he won't have many kids13:33
*** Aranel has joined #maemo13:33
*** Aranel has joined #maemo13:33
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo13:33
* Aranel needs some Photoshop assistance =) (for 1 logo and 2 buttons, not much)13:34
*** serban488 has joined #maemo13:34
olyhi, can anyone point me at a n900 widget example preferably in python ?13:34
serban488clujeni sunt13:34
*** serban488 has quit IRC13:36
*** DangerMaus has left #maemo13:37
olyi found one but it imports hildondesktop which does not exist on my n900 :/13:37
fralspretty sure you gonna need hildondesktop to do a widget13:38
olyhum i was wondering that, just would of expected it to be included by default on the n900 for other widgets13:39
olybut perhaps there all written in C13:39
*** johnsq has quit IRC13:41
Stskeepsoly, python-hildondesktop pkg exists afaik13:42
olyStskeeps, so it does installing now :)13:44
amjad1why does maemo only support ubuntu , why not fedora13:46
ShadowJKdont forget windows and macos13:47
ShadowJKand solaris, *bsd13:47
olyif it works on ubuntu surely it can work on others if some one works on it ?13:48
*** Mece has joined #maemo13:49
olyperhaps theres not enough demand yet13:49
olyand there is the virtual image13:50
ShadowJKYeah it's just easier to use the image then to install it on fedora13:50
Mececould someone confirm Bug 930713:50
povbotBug Media player widget plays paused music after call13:50
*** ZZzzZzzz_2 has quit IRC13:53
*** Mece has quit IRC13:55
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has joined #maemo13:57
*** disco_stu has quit IRC13:57
*** jwittema has joined #maemo13:59
*** topikki has quit IRC13:59
*** Termana_n810 has quit IRC13:59
*** juliank has joined #maemo14:03
*** FatalSaint has quit IRC14:04
LynoureWhat app do you prefer for storing passwords safely?14:04
LynoureI've tried a couple and they seem quite... quirky. or overcomplicated14:04
*** The_Tall1 has joined #maemo14:05
*** Dantonic has quit IRC14:08
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo14:08
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo14:09
*** Termana has joined #maemo14:10
*** Dantonic has quit IRC14:11
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo14:11
*** florian has joined #maemo14:12
*** disco_stu has quit IRC14:13
*** Dantonic has quit IRC14:13
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo14:14
*** SWFu64 has quit IRC14:14
*** tkharju has joined #maemo14:17
*** tkharju has left #maemo14:17
*** saltsa_ has quit IRC14:18
*** FatalSaint has joined #maemo14:20
*** MSameerWork has joined #maemo14:21
*** BabelO has joined #maemo14:21
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC14:28
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo14:30
*** Dantonic has quit IRC14:31
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo14:31
*** SWFu64 has joined #maemo14:31
*** disco_stu has quit IRC14:32
*** krum_ has quit IRC14:37
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo14:38
*** Tuco11 has joined #maemo14:41
*** Tuco1 has quit IRC14:41
arachnistnom nom nom14:42
* arachnist 's description of java memory usage14:42
*** disco_stu has quit IRC14:44
*** FatalSaint has quit IRC14:44
* Arif_ installs java on arachnist's N90014:44
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo14:44
*** trbs has joined #maemo14:45
*** ZogG has quit IRC14:47
*** ZogG has joined #maemo14:48
*** trofi has joined #maemo14:49
*** disco_stu has quit IRC14:50
*** FSCV has quit IRC14:50
threshhow do i debug fmms?14:52
*** saltsa_ has joined #maemo14:52
threshsomehow it doesnt download mms i just received14:53
SpeedEvilgive frals lots of money to take the bugs out?14:53
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo14:53
threshthat is an option indeed!14:53
*** igagis has joined #maemo14:55
*** disco_stu has quit IRC14:55
*** Ellas has joined #maemo14:57
*** FSCV has joined #maemo14:57
*** FatalSaint has joined #maemo14:58
*** Ellas has quit IRC14:58
Stskeepslo FatalSaint14:59
Arif_stop using MMS'es!15:00
Arif_No one ever sent me an MMS ={15:00
N900evilme neither15:00
Arif_those things cost €0,50 here15:00
Arif_I'd rather use my 3G connection to communicate ;D15:01
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo15:04
* RST38h moos15:05
* Arif_ installs java on RST38h's N90015:06
*** disco_stu has quit IRC15:08
TermanaArif_ - Thats a crime against nature. I'm reporting this to Peter15:08
Arif_but but15:08
Arif_java is teh win!15:08
Arif_look at Android!15:08
*** wazd has quit IRC15:09
TermanaI didn't need you to prove my point by pointing out Android :P15:09
Arif_Google just hates their users :(15:10
*** wazd has joined #maemo15:10
*** florian has quit IRC15:11
* RST38h publicly defecates on Java15:11
RST38hehlo wazd15:12
Arif_Sun will not love you15:12
RST38hSun? What is Sun? =)15:12
*** zs has quit IRC15:12
RST38hSome ancient hardware company bought by Oracle?15:12
*** _julian has joined #maemo15:12
_julianhi all15:12
RST38hah fuck that.15:13
Arif_still says oracle + sun on their site :P15:13
_julianis someone here familiar with lightmediascanner? - I am wondering how to detect updated and/or added files through the progress_status?15:13
wazdRST38h: moo15:13
*** Dantonic has quit IRC15:14
*** hannesw has quit IRC15:16
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC15:16
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo15:16
*** trofi has quit IRC15:17
*** wazd_ has joined #maemo15:17
*** djkrikke has joined #maemo15:17
*** zs has joined #maemo15:17
MiXu-Hi. I just started a new project in garage. I'm new to open source. Is there any documentation on licensing that I should read? I'm using LGPL.15:18
MiXu-Should I for example have something written about licensing in my sources? (Nokia seems to do this)15:18
RST38hwazd: New Maemo Mapper is out, from the main repo, with Shmuma's stuff15:18
RST38hwazd: Still majorly screwed up though15:18
pupniksorry i can not show you the girls from last night because the PHOTO APP IS NOT SHOWING THE PICS15:19
derfI'm still using my N810 more than my N900.15:19
derfLargely because of mapper.15:19
djkrikkeIs it possible to enable the devel repository for 1 certain app? So the other applications won't automatically update if there is a new version in the devel repo?15:20
pupnikcan yopu still enjoy the keyboard derf ?15:20
wazd_rst38h: well, since my n800 can work for 2 hours only I doubt that I can find any use for maemo mapper :)15:20
pupnikgoong to reboot piece of shit.  maybe they will show15:20
RST38hderf: Maep15:20
derfpupnik: I enjoy having hardware keys to navigate the map.15:20
*** pupnik has quit IRC15:20
wazd_Rst38h: cached yandex maps works fine though :)15:20
RST38hwazd: How about new battery?15:21
wazd_RsT38h: it's new15:21
RST38hderf: BTW, I will be in the MD/DC/VA area from March 4 ro March 18, so if you want to cross paths at some coffee place, let me know15:21
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo15:21
RST38hwazd: Then how the hell...?15:22
derfI don't drink coffee (or beer for that matter). But we could always grab a pizza or something.15:22
*** kkito has quit IRC15:22
RST38hderf: pizza will do.15:22
wazd_Rst38h: dunno, already reflashed it15:22
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo15:23
RST38hwazd: I am now basically forced into making TI84+SE work, due to availability of the rom =)15:24
wazd_Rst38h: oh, great)15:24
wazd_Rst38h: at last :)15:24
RST38hwazd: Well, not sure if the dump is valid yet15:24
RST38hwazd: The 83+ and later models are weird on the inside - copy protection, writable flash roms, etc15:25
wazd_rst38h: hello kitty mode included?)15:25
*** promulo has joined #maemo15:27
*** disco_stu has quit IRC15:27
*** SWFu64 has quit IRC15:28
RST38hwazd: well, if you add an extra button to the top menu then why not15:29
RST38hwazd: Otherwise, I will have to force it every friday or something =)15:29
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo15:30
*** mschr has joined #maemo15:30
*** Tuco11 has quit IRC15:32
*** disco_stu has quit IRC15:33
*** pupnik has joined #maemo15:37
pupnikthe goddamn mp4 is right in DCIM but media player, media box dont see it15:38
*** koupsa has joined #maemo15:38
*** SWFu64 has joined #maemo15:40
pupnikyo man BAD job15:41
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo15:42
djkrikkewhat do you guys think is the best for battery life, edge connection or wifi connection?15:43
SpeedEvilwifi with powersave15:43
ShadowJKwifi, unless you have a crap access point15:44
djkrikkeok, that's what I've configured already15:44
djkrikkehow can you "test" if power saving works the way it should?15:44
*** booiiing has joined #maemo15:44
Lynouredjkrikke: autodisconnect   seems nice15:44
djkrikkeindeed Lynoure15:44
djkrikkebut that's in devel15:44
Lynouredjkrikke: by not doing anything and seeing if your net gets disconnected, perhaps.15:45
*** disco_stu has quit IRC15:45
djkrikkeand I don't want to add devel because all the other apps will start updating with devel versions15:45
LynoureMany good things are :)15:45
Lynouredjkrikke: you can add, install, disable devel again, if curious.15:45
djkrikkeoh really?15:47
djkrikkethat's maybe a good idea15:47
djkrikkewhat other apps do you think are good, but in devel?15:47
djkrikke(that question was to Lynoure, sorry for not mentioning)15:50
*** disco_stu_N800 has joined #maemo15:51
*** disco_stu_N800 is now known as disco_stu15:51
*** ibrahimmohammed has joined #maemo15:52
*** fabinader has joined #maemo15:53
*** disco_stu has quit IRC15:53
fabinaderHi, anyone knows how to include libgq-gconf (a GConf wrapper for Qt) into your Qt project (.pro) file?15:53
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo15:54
*** bilboed has joined #maemo15:55
djkrikkehmm, this looks like a bug, each time I receive an e-mail I click on the "popup", but I get an empty mail..15:58
djkrikkeit is in my inbox howee15:58
*** millenomi has quit IRC15:59
*** millenomi has joined #maemo15:59
*** disco_stu has quit IRC16:00
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo16:03
*** tearms has joined #maemo16:04
*** disco_stu has quit IRC16:05
*** celesteh has joined #maemo16:06
N900evildjdjel clicking too fast?16:06
Gadgetoid_mbp + N900 = YAY :D16:06
N900evilI think I just had that happen with sms16:06
*** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo16:06
*** fabinader has quit IRC16:07
*** trem has joined #maemo16:09
Lynouredjkrikke: hmm, not sure, most of the time I don't differentiate where my apps come from...16:10
pupnikthe transflective screen gives a beautiful green/orange in direct sunlight16:13
pupnikdoesnt seem to flicker like n81016:13
djkrikkeLynoure: I understand, what are some of your favourite apps then?16:16
Lynouredjkrikke: Quicknote, certainly16:16
*** jophish has joined #maemo16:16
SpeedEvilpupnik: you can turn the backlight entirely off too16:16
Lynouredjkrikke: Eggtimer from ovistore (embarrassed, but it's a nice alarm for pomodoros)16:17
djkrikkeLynoure: nice one lol16:17
Lynouredjkrikke: Exercise Counter16:17
LynoureStill looking for a decent password manager16:18
SpeedEvil(checks current internet speed)16:18
*** pupnik has quit IRC16:18
Lynoureall seem quirky or way too cluttered16:18
LynoureRecommendations for one, anyone?16:18
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo16:18
*** cjdavis1 has quit IRC16:20
*** pupnik has joined #maemo16:21
djkrikkeLynoure: doesn't microB save your passwords?16:21
*** wazd has quit IRC16:21
*** cjdavis1 has joined #maemo16:21
Lynouredjkrikke: not for my other systems it does not16:21
*** EspadaV8_L has quit IRC16:21
Lynouredjkrikke: looking for a thing that stores notes or passwords encrypted in a file somewhere16:22
djkrikkeI see16:22
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s16:25
*** disco_stu has quit IRC16:27
*** disco_stu_N800 has joined #maemo16:28
*** disco_stu_N800 is now known as disco_stu16:29
*** disco_stu_N800 has joined #maemo16:31
djkrikkedisco_stu, having problems? :P16:31
crashanddiegod it feels good to shave16:31
crashanddiefirst time in three weeks now16:31
*** disco_stu_N800 has quit IRC16:32
*** disco_stu has quit IRC16:33
*** wazd_ has quit IRC16:34
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo16:36
*** onion has quit IRC16:37
*** disco_stu has quit IRC16:38
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo16:39
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo16:39
andrei1089Hi, I'm trying to change the description of a package on, but after a short time the old description is shown again. What am I doing wrong?16:42
pupnikmediabox also fails to see my new videos16:42
pupnikow andrei108916:43
*** disco_stu has quit IRC16:44
*** disco_stu_N800 has joined #maemo16:44
*** DangerMaus has joined #maemo16:45
*** disco_stu_N800 is now known as disco_stu16:46
villagerandrei1089: you're probably trying to change the description of the package on, that's what you're doing wrong I think16:47
villagerandrei1089: you're supposed to change it in the package itself, it updates from there16:47
*** amjad1 has quit IRC16:48
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo16:48
*** avs has joined #maemo16:48
andrei1089villager, then why is the option to change the description still available?16:49
villagerandrei1089: it's a bug, it's been discussed but never done anything about16:50
*** disco_stu has quit IRC16:50
djkrikke*runs away from bugs*16:50
andrei1089ok, thanks villager16:51
villagerandrei1089: it's a legacy from the n770/n800/etc days, when it did not work that way16:51
villagerandrei1089: back then you updated on the webpage... but on the n900, the package description is supposed to be the same that you see in the app manager or something, I think16:51
villagerwhich is taken from the package itself16:52
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo16:53
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo16:53
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo16:53
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo16:53
*** onion has joined #maemo16:55
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has quit IRC16:55
*** Termana has quit IRC16:57
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo16:58
*** disco_stu has quit IRC16:58
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo16:59
*** renato_ has joined #maemo17:00
*** tearms has quit IRC17:01
*** aSIMULAtor has quit IRC17:02
*** DangerMaus has quit IRC17:02
*** embedded has joined #maemo17:06
embeddedHi all17:06
*** eMHa has quit IRC17:07
embeddedWho knows how to create a ".desktop" file to run an application under X-Terminal with root priviledges?17:08
*** raster has quit IRC17:09
*** stevenhong has joined #maemo17:09
embeddedno one?17:10
*** marcels has joined #maemo17:10
crashanddieembedded: asked a million times and then some17:11
crashanddieembedded: google it17:11
*** millenomi has quit IRC17:12
*** Tuco1 has joined #maemo17:12
embeddedcrashanddie: I just made some searches, but I only found how to create a shortcut to run app under XTerm but not as root17:13
*** disco_stu has quit IRC17:13
crashanddieembedded: your google must be broken, look what I just found:
*** florian has joined #maemo17:16
*** waled999 has joined #maemo17:16
*** fabinader has joined #maemo17:17
embeddedcrashanddie: I have already found it, but it doesn't work fine. Let me explain: if I launch XTerm and type "sudo gainroot" and then run my ncurses app, it works fine, if instead, I launch it by shortcut it seems to hang the phone, why?17:19
pupniki just type "root" btw17:19
crashanddieembedded: have you tried with a simple command?17:20
fabinaderHi, anyone would know why I cannot access the GConf path /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/<IAP_NAME> through gconftool-2 within Scratchbox, although the directory is correctly created in /var/lib/gconf//system/osso/connectivity/IAP/<IAP_NAME> within Scratchbox?17:20
crashanddieembedded: something like "whoami"?17:20
crashanddiefabinader: access rights?17:20
fabinadercrashanddie: What do you mean? The onwer must be "root"? It must be executable?17:21
*** jo-erlend has joined #maemo17:21
crashanddiefabinader: well, what user does it belong to, what are the access rights for said directory, and what user are you using?17:22
*** Sargun has quit IRC17:23
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo17:23
embeddedcrashanddie: to make it works and don't load CPU quite to 80% I have to get root priviledges first and *only* after execute the app. It doesn't work with a single line command concatenation17:23
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo17:24
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo17:24
fabinadercrashanddie: Q1 - "maemo", Q2 - drwxrwxr-x  2 maemo maemo, Q3 - "maemo" I beleive, as whoami returend "maemo"17:24
*** ibrahimmohammed has quit IRC17:26
*** Woolly has joined #maemo17:26
crashanddieembedded: not the question I asked17:27
crashanddieembedded: you asked "why does my phone freeze", I told you "what happens when you try to run a simple command like "whoami""17:28
embeddedah ok17:28
crashanddiefabinader: and you're just trying to read the contents?17:28
*** slaxium has joined #maemo17:28
embeddedcrashanddie: let me check17:28
fabinadercrashanddie: Do you know if GConf in scratchbox works correctly, even if you call start?17:29
crashanddieno idea mate, only used scratchbox for a couple months 3 years ago17:29
crashanddieshould do though17:30
fabinadercrashanddie: ok, thanks anyway :(17:30
*** onion has quit IRC17:30
slaxiummaybe so can help me. can creat new share account any i click on new  "settings" or "photos" quiets17:31
embeddedcrashanddie: eh but if my app is running under XTerm I not able to run any command until it's running, cause any attempt to open other instance of XTerm bring me to my app window17:31
GAN900crashanddie, lol, I had a dream last night that I shaved my beard.17:31
crashanddieGAN900: the fact that we might have a real connection is strangely disturbing, good friend17:32
crashanddieGAN900: will have 40d on wednesday17:32
GAN900Get some lenses.17:32
crashanddiealso, I discovered an open source project that aims at providing low-budget DIY motion controllers17:33
*** marcels has quit IRC17:33
crashanddieGAN900: check the video i sent to your desktop, seriously good stuff17:33
pupnikwhat about17:34
crashanddiefor roughly $300 (or less if you use the n800/n810 in usb host mode) you can build a 2 axis head + timed trigger that will move the camera and take pictures at the speed you want/need17:35
*** amjad1 has joined #maemo17:35
embeddedcrashanddie: but if my app is running under XTerm I not able to run any command until it's running, cause any attempt to open other instance of XTerm bring me to my app window17:35
crashanddiepupnik: I highly recommend downloading the 720p version17:35
GAN900crashanddie, send it here. I don't feel like VNCing in.17:36
*** slaxium has quit IRC17:36
crashanddieGAN900: ^17:36
*** tg has quit IRC17:36
GAN900cehteh, Hildon Note?!17:36
*** tg has joined #maemo17:36
pupnikI'll assume it's interesting cause it's you17:36
*** wizkoder has joined #maemo17:37
*** eMHa has joined #maemo17:38
*** sar3th is now known as sar3th|away17:39
*** aSIMULAtor has joined #maemo17:42
*** amjad1 has quit IRC17:42
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo17:44
*** hardaker has joined #maemo17:46
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake17:48
*** julio has joined #maemo17:49
*** ibrahimbb has joined #maemo17:50
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has joined #maemo17:50
*** julio has left #maemo17:51
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC17:51
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo17:52
*** sheepbat has joined #maemo17:52
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has quit IRC17:52
*** stevenhong has left #maemo17:53
*** ibrahimbb has left #maemo17:53
*** Vanadis has quit IRC17:53
*** onion has joined #maemo17:57
*** jo-erlend has left #maemo17:57
*** jo-erlend has joined #maemo17:57
lcukmornin maemo17:58
*** AmateurEngineer has joined #maemo17:58
jo-erlendI thought I'd look into writing applications for Maemo in Python. Then I read about meego. Will that be very different, you think?18:00
embeddedIs there some Maemo guru,please ?18:01
arachnistjo-erlend: qt will be the main/blessed toolkit/application framework, so you're better off learning PyQt418:01
jo-erlendarachnist, ah. Thanks.18:01
*** murrayc has joined #maemo18:02
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo18:02
embeddedhey guys is it possible that nobody here has developed an app for Maemo?18:03
nomisembedded: no.18:03
Stskeepsno, but asking a straight question is better18:04
embeddedehed I just asked before but now answers18:04
embeddedexcept few works from crashanddie18:05
nomisembedded: sometimes even gurus don't know an answer.18:05
lcuknomis, how did the fat discussion turn out last night18:05
*** jwittema has quit IRC18:05
embeddedon 531 people? I think so18:06
nomislcuk: I dunno, at some point I just went to bed.18:06
lcuksame here i had to plug in and snooze18:06
lcukhey Stskeeps18:07
*** aSIMULAtor has quit IRC18:08
*** aSIMULAtor has joined #maemo18:08
*** aloril has quit IRC18:08
*** angasule has joined #maemo18:08
*** dockane_ is now known as dockane18:08
*** wazd has joined #maemo18:09
wazdWell, HTC HD2 is helluva spade18:09
wazdIt's screen is larger than my whole e63 :)18:09
*** Striki has joined #maemo18:10
lcukwazd is that a bad thing?18:11
wazdLcuk: well, I saw it earlier and it didn't look that huge for me)18:12
wazdlcuk: well, it's eyecatching :)18:12
lcuknot designed for people with small hands then18:13
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC18:14
wazdlcuk: I definitely don't have this problem)18:14
lcukluke has nicked my n81018:14
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo18:14
wazdI actually wanted to buy it but it's even more expensive than n90018:15
*** FSCV1 has joined #maemo18:19
*** FSCV has quit IRC18:20
*** waled999 has quit IRC18:21
*** aloril has joined #maemo18:22
*** SWFu has joined #maemo18:23
RST38hHD2 is nice18:23
RST38hBut WinMo!18:23
*** Flyser_ has joined #maemo18:24
*** fabinader has quit IRC18:24
djkrikkewinMo is a big fail these days18:26
*** Flyser has quit IRC18:26
*** wizzler has joined #maemo18:26
*** wizkoder has quit IRC18:26
*** alecrim has joined #maemo18:30
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC18:32
*** Gizmokid2005|AFK is now known as Gizmokid200518:33
*** uhsf has joined #maemo18:36
*** hcarrega has quit IRC18:36
*** smaug has quit IRC18:37
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo18:38
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC18:38
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo18:38
*** SWFu has quit IRC18:39
*** hcarrega has joined #maemo18:39
*** embedded has quit IRC18:39
*** DangerMaus has joined #maemo18:42
*** renato_ has quit IRC18:45
* Aranel needs some Photoshop assistance =) (for 1 logo and 2 buttons, not much - Maemo related)18:46
nomisAranel: I can give you Gimp assistance.18:48
Aranelnomis: its better ^^18:49
lcuknomis, is your gimp suit back from the ccleaners already?18:49
lcukand did they fix all the punctures?18:49
nomislcuk: uh, what?18:49
Aranelnomis: I'm working on a unofficial support site for MeeGo/Maemo Turkey. Here what it looks like now:
lcuk:D just jesting18:49
nomislcuk: oh right - took a while  :)18:50
lcukblame it on saturday18:50
Aranelnomis: I dont have any skills about graphics, so I could not do these logo and buttons.18:51
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo18:52
*** Sho_ has quit IRC18:53
nomisAranel: oh, sorry. I assumed you needed help in how-to-use gimp/photoshop. I won't start doing artwork for you, sorry.18:53
*** Ian-- has joined #maemo18:53
Aranelnomis: =) np, thanks anyway.18:53
* mgedmin wishes he could do artwork and other pretty things ...18:53
* mgedmin likes pretty things18:54
*** Woolly has quit IRC18:55
*** kik88 has joined #maemo18:55
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo18:56
*** smaug has joined #maemo18:57
*** BabelO has quit IRC18:57
*** BabelO has joined #maemo18:58
*** BabelO has quit IRC18:58
*** BabelO has joined #maemo18:58
RST38hmgedmin: iPhone?18:59
mgedminit is sort of pretty, yes19:00
mgedminI like the slimness and minimalism of the design19:00
mgedminI find the n900's screen prettier19:00
mgedmintiny tiny pixels are so cute!19:00
*** trem has quit IRC19:00
Lumpio-small pixer kawaii?19:00
* mgedmin remembers when he first saw an iPod and thought it was a medical device of some kind19:00
arachnistLumpio-: s/kawaii/hentai/ ;)19:01
mgedminarachnist, pixels, not pixies!19:01
Lumpio-I guess pixels can be perverted ¬_¬19:01
Lumpio-Depends on what they're displaying19:01
mgedminthe all-white thing had some kind of sterile look19:01
Shapeshiftermhh! turning off 3G makes for like 3x more battery time19:01
arachnistShapeshifter: turn off wifi scanning, and switch over to wifi only when you know you're in range19:02
lcukmgedmin, ipod nano is edible monitoring device19:02
* mgedmin would buy an ipod nano in an eyeblink, if it didn't refuse to work with his laptop19:03
lcukwazd, what would a meego n900 redux look like in your eyes.  using similar hardware capabilities but with your polished asthetics19:07
*** dnaumov has quit IRC19:09
*** wolf^ has quit IRC19:09
redpolished n900 GUI yes please ;p19:10
lcukred, we have ui polishing, lots of nice themes that people enjoy using19:10
*** angasule has quit IRC19:11
redlet me rephrase19:11
lcuki was thinking outside19:11
*** Erod has joined #maemo19:11
redgrid snapping, unified size for bookmarks, shortcuts and contacts on desktop, non-choppy animations19:11
redi can live without those things easily, but id be a happy camper if it was like that ;)19:12
lcukdidnt i see a community grid snapping tool19:13
*** RST38bis has joined #maemo19:14
*** zap has quit IRC19:14
RST38hOk, anyone would like to talk me away from buying BH-905 headphones?19:14
RST38hRST38bis: test19:14
lcukred ^^19:15
lcukRST38h, buy the headphones if you want them, otherwise dont19:15
RST38hlcuk: nah, this will not work, either way =)19:16
lcukwhat do you like about them19:16
RST38hreal headphones, should be comfortable, bt, noise cancelling19:17
*** dnaumov has joined #maemo19:17
lcukare those attributes of the bh-905s?19:17
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo19:18
mgedminafaiu the n900 has grid-snapping out of the box in latter firmwares, only the grid is *tiny*19:20
RST38hmgedmin: there is a secret to that ;)19:20
RST38hlcuk: yes19:20
*** t_s_o has quit IRC19:20
mgedminsecret?  ooh, do tell!19:21
*** crashanddie has quit IRC19:21
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]19:22
RST38hmgedmin: there is a config file with desktop settings, you set snap-grid step there. I have mine set to 10 or something19:24
RST38hwill tell you name ina second19:24
*** DangerMaus has left #maemo19:24
mgedminit's not in gconf.  why isn't it in gconf??19:24
*** tgalal_ has joined #maemo19:26
RST38hmgedmin: /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini19:26
*** RST38bis has quit IRC19:27
* mgedmin finds the original bug:
povbotBug 5372: Can't easily align desktop widgets (snap to position) on home screens19:27
mgedminwhoa, a 4x4 grid!19:28
RST38hhehe, yes, it makes sense to decrease swap to let you have 4 rows of icons19:28
mgedminanyway, to put things in perspective, I find the current fine grid makes things at least 4x better than no grid at all19:28
*** RST38bis has joined #maemo19:32
*** ferulo has joined #maemo19:32
*** Sho_ has quit IRC19:32
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo19:33
*** tgalal_ has quit IRC19:33
*** _Elwood_ has joined #maemo19:33
*** Sho_ has quit IRC19:34
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo19:34
*** MadViking has joined #maemo19:35
*** RST38bis has quit IRC19:37
*** victorpoluceno has quit IRC19:40
*** booiiing has quit IRC19:40
*** victorpoluceno has joined #maemo19:41
*** mmgcs has joined #maemo19:42
*** choppa has quit IRC19:48
*** kkito has joined #maemo19:49
*** mmgcs has quit IRC19:49
*** zogg_ has joined #maemo19:52
*** ZogG has quit IRC19:55
prontoandrei1089: you around?19:56
*** FSCV1 has quit IRC19:57
ptlI've just seen that there is a repository for java on Maemo 419:57
lcukgah @ my nipple being wonky19:57
*** wormsxulla has quit IRC19:57
ptlwhy there is not such a repository for Maemo 5?19:57
Lumpio-Java D:19:57
villagerperhaps someone realized that java sucks in the meantime19:58
*** disco_stu has quit IRC19:58
*** booiiing has joined #maemo19:58
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo19:58
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo19:59
*** wormsxulla has joined #maemo20:00
*** disco_stu_N800 has joined #maemo20:01
*** davyg has joined #maemo20:03
mgedminmany things that suck have large followings *cough*qt*cough*20:04
*** disco_stu has quit IRC20:04
*** disco_stu_N800 is now known as disco_stu20:05
lcukmgedmin, nothing new, sasha gray turned it into a career20:06
*** aspidites has joined #maemo20:07
lcukmgedmin, dont search, it was a crude reference20:08
*** jreznik has quit IRC20:08
* aspidites hates captcha. 30+ attempts and still can't register at ovi...20:09
jaskayoure a machine!20:10
*** Troy54 has joined #maemo20:11
aspiditeswow. finally worked. apparently registering from is broken but can be done via ovi.com20:13
*** Flyser_ has quit IRC20:15
*** RST38bis has joined #maemo20:16
*** Sho_ has quit IRC20:18
*** RST38bis has quit IRC20:18
*** Troy54 has quit IRC20:19
aspiditeshas anyone been able to download from ovi today? i click "continue" but it still won't let me download angry birds20:19
cehtehnew maemo mapper, nice .. but where does it store the tiles?20:19
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo20:19
*** MadViking has quit IRC20:19
RST38hcehteh: on te perforated tape,judging from update speed20:19
cehtehyes .. but i didnt found the papertrail yet20:20
*** strcpy has joined #maemo20:20
cehtehdone lsof and shows nothing20:20
pupnikwhat is cool this week20:20
*** alex-weej has quit IRC20:21
aspiditeshmm...apparently I can't download anything period on my browser...20:23
strcpyAnybody willing to help me about this broken apt on n900 ?
strcpynon of common fixes worked for me20:24
*** wazd has quit IRC20:24
mgedminstrcpy, sudo vim /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba-common.postinst20:24
mgedminadd a line after the #!/bin/sh saying 'set -x'20:24
strcpylet me try it. thank you :)20:25
*** _Elwood_ has quit IRC20:25
mgedminthen run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' and see what command in the script produces that error message20:25
mgedminthat may be sufficient to figure out what's wrong and maybe file a bug report20:25
RST38hpupnik: LED pattern editor20:25
RST38hpupnik: rules pretty hard20:25
cehtehRST38h: ah it shares the cache with maep .. MyDocs/.maps20:25
RST38hcehteh: isn't it a good thing?20:25
mgedminthe unified maemo map tile cache! yay20:26
strcpyit appeard while connection dropped in middle of downloading samba by apt20:26
cehtehyes it is .. i just wanted to find out20:26
cehtehRST38h: the pattern editor is nice, but still lacks a lot features20:26
*** wizzler has quit IRC20:26
cehteh(and hey .. released after i handcoded all my favorite patterns duh! :P)20:26
mgedminstrcpy, interesting, but if the deb were incomplete, apt/dpkg wouldn't think you had samba already half-installed, I think20:26
mgedminstrcpy, alternatively you may want to try sudo apt-get install samba-common --reinstall20:27
RST38hcehteh: has got all I need to paint IM and missed calls different colors =)20:27
strcpysecond workaround already tried ~> no luck20:27
cehtehyou cant create new patterns with it and (i didnt found out at least) how to add new commands to the list20:27
*** t-tan has joined #maemo20:28
cehtehand my patterns have a a minimum brightness of 1 instead 0 .. thats bit harder to code because pauses cant just decrement n times20:28
strcpymgedmin: should I leave default set -e ?20:28
cehtehthe charging/on/charged patterns i mean20:28
mgedminstrcpy, yes20:29
cehtehi like it glowing in the night, very dimly, just that one can locate the device20:29
aspidites. seems to only be wifi that has the problem. anyone else experiencing wifi download issues on n900?20:29
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC20:29
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo20:29
SWFu64Anyone ever get that update in the UK?20:29
cehtehstill not?20:30
SWFu64Nothing for me20:30
cehtehi thought the snow has melted and the tunnel trains go again ...20:30
strcpymgedmin: result :
cehtehbut the intatnet pipes are still frozen :P20:30
SWFu64I guess they are not bothering, maybe theres a big update coming shortly20:30
mgedminstrcpy, so, no change?20:31
mgedminhey, what does the script itself look like?20:31
cehtehok ... /me sucking osm maps like mad now20:31
strcpylet me try apt-gt update again20:31
mgedminmaybe it starts with #!/usr/bin/bash?20:31
mgedminmaybe you don't have bash installed?20:31
richieeee72SWFu64: Did Nokia ever say anything official about missing the UK update?20:31
mgedminstrcpy, ^20:31
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo20:31
SWFu64Not that I know of.20:31
strcpyDarkCell:~# head /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba-common.postinst20:32
strcpyset -x20:32
strcpyset -e20:32
strcpyindeed ! I`m lost20:32
* mgedmin is grasping straws now20:33
mgedminmaybe the file has CR LF line endings?20:33
strcpyI had one idea , maybe it work ? manualy dowloading broken package and placing in apt temp folder?20:33
pupnikty RST38h20:33
mgedmin"dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: No such file or directory"20:33
mgedminseems to imply that either /var/lib/dpkg/info/samba-common.postinst doesn't exist or /bin/sh doesn't exist20:34
*** marcels has joined #maemo20:34
strcpymgedmin: file is missing but donnow why apt is not downloading it again :/20:34
mgedminwhich file is missing?20:34
RST38hpupnik: check date widget as well, same as calendar widget but without the todo shit20:34
strcpymgedmin: both exist20:35
strcpyI`m over ssh already20:35
mgedminstrcpy, and the line endings?20:35
strcpyoptify "usr/share/doc/samba-common"20:35
strcpyah CLRF ..20:36
strcpylet me chk20:36
strcpyall seems ok20:37
strcpyisn`t is a conflict between dev & extra repositories?20:38
*** BoRjU has joined #maemo20:38
mgedminI'm baffled by that error20:39
mgedminbrute force?  sudo apt-get remove samba-common; sudo apt-get install samba?20:40
strcpyisn`t there any trick to atucally reset apt ?20:40
mgedmindefine "reset apt"20:40
mgedminactually, you don't want to apt-get install samba, you want smbclient20:41
strcpythere seems to be some progress here :) let me pastebin20:41
*** aol has joined #maemo20:41
*** mschr has quit IRC20:42
mgedminstrcpy, IT IS WINDOWS LINE ENDINGS!20:42
mgedminI just downloaded
mgedminand looked inside20:42
aolc question ... what is the correct way to define a constant char* in a header file ?20:42
mgedmindebian/postinst starts with "#!/bin/sh\x0D\x0A"20:42
mgedmina broken package20:42
mgedmincontact the uploader, complain, tell him/her to fix it20:43
strcpyso wtf I've done wrong here ?!20:43
aolconst char* my_const_string = "String"; does not work in gcc if it's in header file20:43
strcpyI fixed that here,20:43
mgedminstrcpy, nothing, the package is broken20:43
mgedminwait, let me see your pastebin20:43
strcpyre-editing with nano/vim fix that20:43
mgedminif you :set ff=unix before saving, yes20:44
mgedminnano I don't think touches line endings at all?20:44
mgedminpostrm is also buggy20:44
mgedmin#!/bin/sh -e"20:44
mgedminbusybox sh doesn't like that20:44
prontodoes anyone know how to use the .plist handbrake file for vidio encoding with handbrake cli,. the plist from
mgedminshould be changed to two lines: "#!/bin/sh" and "set -e"20:45
strcpyis already as above20:45
strcpyafter I inserted your first hint20:45
*** kkito has quit IRC20:45
* mgedmin sometimes wishes all maemo packages were kept in revision control in a uniform manner, and he had commit rights20:46
mgedminstrcpy, I was talking about postrm now -- the cause for "/bin/sh: illegal option -" and "subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2"20:46
*** BoRjU has quit IRC20:48
*** _Lucretia_ has joined #maemo20:50
* mgedmin emails the maintainer20:51
strcpymgedmin: do you know about networking lags of n900 too? while wifi is set to it`s default powe-saving, wifi is actually broken for downloading/ssh/... but setting it to less power saving or disabling that, fix it20:51
*** millenomi has joined #maemo20:51
strcpythanks for help about apt btw20:51
mgedminpeople claim it's wifi accesspoints not following the 802.11whatever spec correctly20:51
*** wulansari has joined #maemo20:53
*** zogg_ has quit IRC20:53
RST38hBTW does N900 support 802.11n?20:53
mgedminmy ap doesn't either20:54
jacekowskiare you sure20:54
mgedminand my laptop20:54
mgedminwikipedia says 802.11b/g only20:54
*** zogg_ has joined #maemo20:55
strcpyno jacekowski, 802.11n is not supported20:55
strcpythe chip they used is not supporting it20:55
cehtehnot even a :/20:55
redeemannobody uses a20:55
redeemaneveryone uses g20:55
nid0thank god, 802.11a needs to die20:55
redeemanso who cares20:56
nid010 years ago, ideally.20:56
strcpynon of them are required in common uses IMO20:56
cehtehmhm .. and running at 600Mhz for extended time, it gets quite warm now20:56
cehtehnid0: huh? a is cool20:56
strcpyand about N , who really needs that bandwidth on a phone ?!20:56
cehtehall people use 2Ghz .. 5Ghz is free :)20:57
nid0nokia probably didnt want to put a draft version into something like a mass production phone anyway20:57
* RST38h does20:57
mgedminwhat's wrong with 802.11a?20:57
nid0much better to wait till the spec's actually finalised before using it20:57
nid0whats wrong with it? its sucks?20:57
RST38hmgedmin: too short range20:57
RST38hmgedmin: way too short20:57
nid0terrible range, huge power usage20:57
mgedminwhat, like 30 cm?20:57
RST38hmgedmin: not that bad, more like 10m20:58
* mgedmin learned something new today20:58
inzmgedmin, do you feel more pain now?20:58
pupnikugh tefrrible range.  who forced that?  EU government?20:59
*** mschr has joined #maemo20:59
*** homeasvs__ has joined #maemo20:59
nid0no, its just a limitation of the standard. a was an olllld version of g, and was replaced by g because it was shit, effectively21:00
*** homeasvs_ has quit IRC21:00
inzmgedmin, in finnish we use "knowledge brings pain" instead of "ignorance is a bliss"21:00
* mgedmin learned another new thing today21:00
strcpybtw, any progress on packet-injection on wifi ?21:00
inzmgedmin, =)21:00
strcpyeveryone is missing it :)21:01
mgedminif ignorance is bliss then why aren't more people happy?21:01
*** kkb110 has quit IRC21:01
nid0dumb people think theyre smart21:01
*** alecrim has quit IRC21:03
*** z4chh has quit IRC21:05
*** wazd has joined #maemo21:07
RST38hnid0: and this makes them unhappy!21:07
RST38h seconds)21:08
*** wizkoder has joined #maemo21:09
*** celesteh has quit IRC21:09
*** zogg_ has quit IRC21:11
*** alecrim has joined #maemo21:11
*** koupsa has quit IRC21:11
*** zogg_ has joined #maemo21:14
*** trofi has joined #maemo21:14
*** amjad1 has joined #maemo21:14
mgedminwhat the?21:15
mgedminthat doesn't look like a nice way to treat books21:15
*** hardaker has quit IRC21:15
*** _Elwood_ has joined #maemo21:16
RST38hit is done by performance artists21:16
RST38hyou have ot be thankful there is no performance artist shitting at these books, on camera21:16
*** zap has joined #maemo21:16
mgedmin802.11a versus 802.11bgn in large conferences:
pupnik"Things are starting to pad out a little, even though general devs don’t have devices yet; we’ve got Picodrive for Genesis emulation, Hatari for Atari ST, UAE for Amiga, MAME, Vice for Commodore 64, and a really groovy port of DosBox with full touchscreen mouse emulation, for instance. We’ve got Abiword built in, along with some little utils — djwillis crammed quite a bit into that firmware space! Some ports are coming along .. Quake 1, 2,21:17
*** jfk_ has joined #maemo21:18
*** _Elwood_ has quit IRC21:19
nid0mgedmin, conferences in big open rooms and tons of access points but in an area flooded with other networks as well are about the only practical use of a21:20
*** Fruktsoda has joined #maemo21:20
*** Fruktsoda has left #maemo21:20
jebbaoh noes! the usb/recharge jack on my main n900 is now broke.  doh.21:22
Arif_get an external charger =P21:23
jebbaguess i'll use that one for fedora since i can't recharge it anyway, heh21:23
*** wizkoder has quit IRC21:24
Arif_I found another bug \o/21:25
Arif_radios stop playing after you hear the low battery sound21:25
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo21:25
pupnikmaybe that is useful21:27
*** BabelO has quit IRC21:27
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo21:29
Arif_no it's not21:30
pupnikjebba: it might still pickup charge even if loose21:31
pupnikthat cable with the lever arm is a serious error21:31
*** krum_ has joined #maemo21:32
jebbapupnik, well it is not level now (like 150° instead of 180°) and plugging it in, it doesn't recharge.21:33
pupnikow. did you trip over the cord?21:34
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has joined #maemo21:37
ShadowJKanother charging port breaks... fun :/21:38
Stskeepson n900?21:39
djkrikkeArif_, when do you get the low battery warning? At what percentage?21:39
*** Vulcanis_ has joined #maemo21:39
adalalwhat is softpoweroff?21:39
Arif_djkrikke, there's a battery bar and no % :o21:40
djkrikkeoh i see21:40
djkrikkeI use the desktop command widget21:40
djkrikkeso I can get the percentage21:40
Arif_I'm not that concerned21:41
djkrikkebut when do you get the warning then, I suppose when the battery bar get's empty :)21:41
*** unixSnob has quit IRC21:41
djkrikkebecause I read, if things go wrong and the battery really dies, you have to use a desktop charger.21:42
Arif_you usually get a low battery warning when the battery is, well......low21:42
djkrikkeis that still correct anyway?21:42
MohammadAG<djkrikke> Arif_, when do you get the low battery warning? At what percentage?21:42
djkrikkeallright MohammadAG21:42
ShadowJKnah it justs starts  saying 5mAh after battery low21:42
adalalcan anyone tell me what the soft poweroff option means?21:42
ShadowJKjumps from whatever to exactly 5 :)21:42
djkrikkeShadowJK, maybe it's for saving the battery?21:43
MohammadAGusually it goes down by 5 here21:43
djkrikkeso It doesn't really get empty21:43
ShadowJKYes of course21:43
* Arif_ charges his battery :P21:43
*** hardaker has joined #maemo21:43
* MohammadAG needs to get a new SIM21:44
djkrikkeShadowJK, is that "bug" still in there? That it's possible you can't charge it anymore after going totally empty?21:44
MohammadAGN900 keeps saying no sim, it's kind of worn out (the sim)21:44
ShadowJKOnly if you hosed the os, I think.21:44
djkrikkeLike in an upgrade or something..21:45
ShadowJKor if you try something silly like charge from an usb port (use the wall charger)21:45
*** DHR has joined #maemo21:45
* Arif_ usually charges from an USB port21:45
djkrikkewhat's wrong with usb21:46
ShadowJKiirc low battery warning comes at about 3.5Volt and the software shuts down before 3.2Volt21:46
* MohammadAG is charging from a USB atm (PS3 PSU rocks!)21:46
ShadowJKdjkrikke, it requires negotiation with the host device, which requires the n900 to turn on, which requires power in the battery21:47
djkrikkeooh I see21:47
ShadowJKplus it's weak compared to wall charger21:47
djkrikkeso charging an empty device with usb is going to give problems :)21:47
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo21:47
Arif_what about a car charger21:47
Lumpio-It should work if done properly21:47
Lumpio-The current you can draw from USB without negotiation should be enough to kickstart the process21:48
MohammadAGArif_, afaik car chargers don't work (if they're USB based)21:48
Arif_they don't?21:48
MohammadAGI use the wall charger in the car :)21:48
Arif_how do I charge my phone in the car then!21:48
MohammadAGwall charger :)21:48
Lumpio-...there should be no difference between a car and a wall charger21:48
Lumpio-They're both likely dumb devices21:48
Arif_normal cars don't have a wall socket thing :P21:48
*** javispedro has joined #maemo21:49
MohammadAGUse it for all my devices21:49
RST38hmoo javispedro21:49
Lumpio-That's just ginormous.21:50
*** Flandry has joined #maemo21:50
Lumpio-And probably incredibly inefficient as well21:50
javispedrofinally got my n900 back, and now half the albumart is gone21:50
Lumpio-Why would you want to stop the voltage up to 110/220V only to step it down immediately afterwards D:21:50
* mgedmin has a thing like that, only it converts the car's 12V into USB21:50
javispedrothe entire albumart infrastructure seems to be as fragile as a windows 3.1 .ini file .21:50
MohammadAGmgedmin, it has a USB port too, but that doesn't work with the N90021:51
RST38hjavispedro: tracker.21:51
javispedroRST38h: yeah I'm already tackling it.21:51
FlandryIs there a way to discover the actual uploader for an app in the repositories?21:51
javispedroseems it fails to copy stuff from .mediaartlocal to ~/.cache folders if they exist.21:51
*** _Elwood_ has joined #maemo21:51
RST38hjavispedro: more like, kill it for good and add a desktop button that says "rescan all media"21:52
javispedroand the stuff to read cover.jpg files from directories is just not implemented in anything other than .mp3 files.21:52
MohammadAG<Lumpio-> Why would you want to stop the voltage up to 110/220V only to step it down immediately afterwards D: / good point21:52
javispedroFlandry: iirc it's listed in te packages interfaces.21:52
RST38hjavispedro: well, tracker is brought to you by the same guy who brought modest21:52
* RST38h snickers21:52
FlandryMohammadAG: easier to change voltages with AC21:53
* mgedmin kinda likes modest21:53
Lumpio-s/stop/step/ even21:53
Flandrydon't know if that's a reason though21:53
* mgedmin is kinda suspicious towards tracker21:53
javispedroFlandry: and also that cauldron list has that info21:53
RST38hmgedmin: I am sure it is Stockholm syndrome21:53
ShadowJKVme uses the dc-10 car charger, works fine21:53
Flandrycauldron list?21:53
ShadowJKany car charger that follows the usb charging spec should be fine (but alot of crappy doesn't)21:54
mgedminRST38h, no, my using Mutt on a dual-core laptop could be Stockholm syndrome21:54
RST38hmgedmin: PINE. And PICO.21:54
MohammadAGShadowJK, Nokia's chargers work?21:54
MohammadAGread some posts on tmo that they don't21:54
* javispedro prepares to file the appropiate bugs...21:54
mgedminRST38h, blasphemy!21:55
mgedminoh, there goes my "no flame wars on irc" resolution again...21:55
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has quit IRC21:55
RST38hWeird shit: AdBlocker+ icon changed from red to green21:55
*** _Elwood_ has quit IRC21:55
*** pillar has quit IRC21:55
*** amjad1 has quit IRC21:56
pupnikevenin Flandry21:56
FlandryHi pupnik21:56
*** davyg has quit IRC21:56
FlandrySo here's the problem. Says here:
*** c|oneman has quit IRC21:57
strcpyisn`t there anything ported to Maemo for GSM field testing ? like FTD for Symbian..21:57
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo21:57
Flandrythat "Loic Minier" is the maintainer, and that seems to coincide with the user information, but upon emailing Loic i was told that (s)he is not the maintainer for Maemo version21:57
strcpycurrent RFmon in extra is just covering very basic and useless info21:58
ShadowJKstrcpy: no such (documented) access to the modem21:58
strcpymeans no luck for developers unless they RE the firmware?21:58
*** pillar has joined #maemo21:59
FlandrySo i can't figure out who to contact to get a dependencies problem fixed21:59
javispedroFlandry: what's the source package name?22:00
*** pupnik has quit IRC22:00
lcukjavispedro, just the person22:00
FlandryGood question22:01
FlandryLet me check22:01
javispedroevening lcuk22:01
*** pH5 has joined #maemo22:01
cehteh2.1G.maps/OpenStreetMap I ... just takes time to fill up the flash :P22:01
MohammadAGTsunami hits Marquesas Island22:01
mgedminFlandry, if the debian/control file lies about the maintainer, check debian/changelog22:01
adalalcan anyone tell me what soft poweroff means?22:02
lcuk:( @ tsunami22:02
javispedrodebian says "Poppler".22:03
javispedroFlandry: thus cauldron says the latest uploader of poppler is "tanner"22:03
cehtehthe parents of my wife live in valparaiso and send some pics22:03
FlandryAh, thanks22:03
FlandryWas still trying to figure out the necessary apt and dpkg commands22:04
cehtehluckily nothing too dramatic happend, just some tumbled furniture, pictures fallen of the walls and some cracks in the walls22:04
javispedroFlandry: sorry; actually, qwerty12 uploaded the 0.12.2-2maemo0 version22:06
javispedrothe other uploaders disabled qt4 support from what I read here22:06
javispedrowhat a mess.22:06
FlandryIt can't be installed without forcing22:07
GAN900cehteh, no more Hildon Note! :P22:07
*** ikke-t1 has joined #maemo22:07
FlandrySo qwerty's the one to fix that i guess?22:08
RST38hAre there any Class6 16GB microSDHCs?22:08
RST38hOr am I missing something?22:08
Arif_I can't find a DC-6 charger on DX22:08
javispedroFlandry: I'd ask tanner, just because he's the last one.22:08
javispedros/last one/more recent one22:09
*** javispedro has quit IRC22:09
FlandryMay i ask how you found that? I'm doing a site search with google and not coming up with that22:09
*** ScribbleJ has quit IRC22:09
*** ScribbleJ has joined #maemo22:12
Arif_what was the N900's battery ?22:12
mgedminflickr sharing plugin bug: "quotes" in your title end up shown as &quot; on the web22:12
MohammadAGArif_, BL-5J22:13
Arif_thanks =}22:13
MohammadAGnp :)22:14
Arif_so I could use this one?22:15
*** hannesw has joined #maemo22:15
MohammadAGArif_, only 2 pounds?!22:16
*** pupnik has joined #maemo22:16
MohammadAG2.85 :P22:17
MohammadAGbut still, wouldn't it affect the battery?22:17
MohammadAGI have two batteries, and charging them 1 by 1 isn't the easiest way22:17
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC22:18
RST38hOk, anyone knows what is the current story on N900 memory card performance?22:18
RST38hDoes it matter if I buy class2, class4, or class6 card?22:18
Arif_what are you going to do with it22:19
RST38haccess it?22:19
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo22:19
Arif_store pr0n?22:19
Arif_record videos?22:19
SpeedEvilRST38h: My cheap 1G card gets over 12M/s read22:19
Arif_I'd go for class 222:19
SpeedEvilRST38h: reading from /dev/mmcblk[01] I get >27M/s22:20
SpeedEvilat the same time with dd22:20
RST38hSpeedEvil: how about writing?22:20
Arif_they just want to screw you over anyway :)22:20
ScribbleJI have a 16G uh, whatever class is 2mb/sec, and it does video recording just fine.22:20
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC22:20
SpeedEvilRST38h: writing is a whole nother story.22:20
Arif_you should read reviews anyway22:20
Arif_Class is minimum write speed22:20
Arif_I had class 4 cards that were faster than 6 :(22:21
MohammadAGmight sell my 16GB card22:25
MohammadAGand buy a 32GB one, but it's too expensive :(22:25
* Arif_ waits for 32GB cards22:25
*** [MONEY] has joined #maemo22:25
MohammadAGArif_, why wait? You can order them now22:25
MohammadAG99.97 pounds22:26
DragnslcrDoes anyone else have GMail synchronization setup and working? Calendar sync seems to be working fine, but contact sync is failing22:26
*** ikke-t1 has quit IRC22:27
cehtehGAN900: wha?22:27
Arif_and what makes you think I'll pay so much for that22:27
*** RolaBlade has joined #maemo22:27
GAN900cehteh, the XChat plugin22:27
cehtehwhats with it?22:27
GAN900cehteh, the Hildon Notes drive me crazy. :P22:27
GAN900use libnotify22:27
cehteh /notify_mode -db22:27
cehtehyou changed it?22:28
cehtehfor libnotify someone could add 'n' for the mode22:28
cehtehturning on/off libnotify stuff22:29
cehtehi just didnt cared enough22:29
Milo-gahh, why does the mad qmake and mad dpkg-buildpackage force my application to be installed with 644 permissions?22:29
MohammadAGArif_, and how else would you get it?22:30
Milo-It needs to have executable permissions22:30
Arif_wait untill the prices drop :p22:30
Milo-how do I make the installer auto-set the permissions to 755 rather than 644?22:31
mgedminMilo-, how are you installing it in your debian/rules?22:32
MohammadAGArif_, ah, when the 64GB cards get released22:32
mgedminI'm sure dpkg-buldpackage doesn't touch the permissions your build/install process (i.e. debian/rules) sets22:32
Milo-mgedmin that file is untouched22:32
* Arif_ has no hurry :D22:32
mgedminwait, "untouched"?22:33
*** pupnik has quit IRC22:33
Milo- this is what the generator created22:33
satmd'not modified'22:33
Milo-haven't touched it..22:33
*** Chewtoy has joined #maemo22:33
mgedminokay, it runs "make install"22:33
mgedminwhat does your Makefile look like?22:34
Milo-it has 'install -m 644 -p' but I don't know why it automatically sets it to that22:34
mgedminprobably autogenerated by qmake or something...22:34
mgedminI'm not familiar with qmake22:34
mgedminyou probably need to tell it somehow that this is an executable file22:34
*** javispedro has joined #maemo22:35
Milo-I don't see an option for such22:35
mgedmincan you pastebin your qmake source file?22:35
*** ujjain has joined #maemo22:37
mgedminand the Makefile?22:37
Milo-it is autogenerated by qmake, so it makes very little difference..
mgedminI'm just curious about qmake22:39
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo22:39
mgedmina quick google gave me
mgedminwhich mentions nothing about file permissions22:40
mgedminbut given TARGET it should realize it's an executable22:40
mgedminhm, 3.0?  should I look for 4.0?22:40
*** ujjain has left #maemo22:40
Milo-4.5 even22:40
mgedminMilo-, huh? I see "INSTALL_PROGRAM = install -m 755 -p " in your paste22:42
Milo-mgedmin yes, but install_app has 64422:42
mgedminand         -$(INSTALL_PROGRAM) "build/$(QMAKE_TARGET)" "$(INSTALL_ROOT)/opt/maeremote/bin/$(QMAKE_TARGET)"22:42
mgedminwhere QMAKE_TARGET = MaeRemote22:42
Milo-apparently that sets it to 644 in the actual product22:42
mgedmin"install_app" is not present at all in that file22:42
*** dnaumov has quit IRC22:42
mgedminI'm confused now22:42
mgedminchromium's search is case-insensitive22:43
mgedminyes, file is for non-executable files22:43
Milo-ah I see22:43
mgedminisn't it MaeRemote that gets installed wrong?22:43
mgedminwhich file is it?22:43
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC22:43
Milo-/opt/maeremote/bin/MaeRemote gets installed with 644 permissions for weird reasons22:44
Milo-debian/maeremote.tarlist also says so22:44
Milo-but that file is autogenerated by buildpackage command22:44
mgedmincan you check debian/maeremote/opt/maeremote/bin ?22:44
mgedmindoes the file in there have correct perms or not?22:44
* mgedmin loves bisecting for bugs22:45
Milo-yes it hasd22:45
mgedminmidnight commander can let you see inside .debs22:46
mgedminif you start mc and go inside the binary deb produced, can you check the permissions?22:46
mgedminIIRC alt-t toggles view modes, one of which shows file perms22:46
mgedminnah, executables are in different color and have a * in front of them anyway22:46
Milo-midnight commander?22:47
Milo-on n900?22:47
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo22:47
mgedminor in scratchbox22:47
Milo-don't have such command in n90022:47
mgedminwherever you have the .deb file produced by dpkg-buildpackage22:47
mgedminyou can install mc from extras-devel, I think22:47
mgedmindid it make it into extras?22:47
mgedminanyway, it doesn't matter where you use mc22:47
mgedminI'd do that on my (linux) laptop anyway, the keyboard is better22:48
mgedminthen again, it's very unlikely that dpkg-buildpackage would take a mode 755 file and silently change the mode to 644 when packing the .deb22:48
javispedroI just found an SD card that sometimes doesn't do writes correctly if I do it at high speeds.22:48
javispedro"human" high speeds.22:48
mgedminbut it's also unlikely that this happens when you install...22:48
Milo-installing it on my desktop now22:49
mgedminany chance of a VFAT partition getting in the way?  those can't really represent file permissions22:49
Milo-nope nothing is installed in the vfat partition22:49
mgedminIOW I've no clue where the problem is, but it's not in your qmake config nor in debian/rules at least22:49
Arif_oh yay22:49
Arif_I opened bug 9315 :P22:50
povbotBug Radio stops playing after low battery warning22:50
Milo-mgedmin okay got the mc22:50
Milo-doesn't show up as an executable22:50
*** dnaumov has joined #maemo22:51
*** dnaumov is now known as Jago22:51
*** Jago is now known as dnaumov22:51
lcukMilo-, movies do the same as i found out last night22:51
lcuki was 99% through an episode22:51
mgedminso it's executable in debian/maeremote, but not in the .deb22:51
lcukand got low battery22:51
*** dnaumov has quit IRC22:51
mgedminhow on earth could that happen?22:51
Milo-sounds like fun...22:51
Milo-bloody pirates!22:52
Arif_who pirated what?22:52
Milo-pirates pirated pirates22:52
* Arif_ hands Milo- a pirated version of Angry Birds22:52
lcukdevelopers worked hard to make those22:54
Milo-mgedmin maybe it is a madde bug..22:54
lcukits not easy making birds angry and takes a lot of practice22:54
Arif_it's not worth pirating anyway22:55
javispedromgedmin: i've seen a shitload of weird things like that within scratchbox.22:55
Milo-javispedro I'm not using scratchbox22:55
Milo-I am using madde and n900..22:55
*** wulansari has quit IRC22:55
mgedminI haven't tried madde yet22:55
Milo-gentoo, madde and n900 :)22:55
lcukjavispedro, what was the name of the gles book you were gonna get22:56
mgedmina 600-megabyte shell script is not something I'm going to download and blindly run, thank you very much22:56
Milo-mgedmin heh22:56
Milo-the shell script is actually just few kilos22:56
javispedrolcuk: the book I got ;) ; it's "OpenGL ES 2.0 Programming Guide"22:56
Milo-but for some reason nokia has stucked the binary code inside the shell script :D22:56
mgedminyeah, it's a shar archive I bet22:56
lcukis it good22:56
Milo-mgedmin but saves tons of trouble to use madde instead of crapbox :)22:57
Milo-except when it was time to build the package :D22:57
mgedminlike the permissions issue you have now?22:57
mgedminlet me know how that goes22:57
javispedrolcuk: I learned quite a lot from it. my only gripe is that it talks little about 1.1 (which is to be expected).22:57
Milo-I think I'll make a thread to Talk22:58
* mgedmin ordered a 120 GB SSD today22:58
lcukso we need 1.1 or can we use both22:58
lcukor is 1.1 only for the n81022:58
javispedrolcuk: if you want it as a tutorial I think it's good22:58
lcuknice mgedmin22:58
* mgedmin doesn't know if he'll bother reinstalling scratchbox when he gets it22:58
javispedro1.1 only for n81022:58
lcukright, good thanks22:58
mgedminmaybe it'll be time to try out MADDE22:58
javispedron900 has both now22:58
lcukyeah are you managing to use it as you need?22:58
mgedminnow I've got scratchbox installed years ago, so the pain is past22:58
lcukscratchbox on ubuntu is a breeze nowadays22:58
lcukwith the gui installer22:59
mgedminthey made a gui installer?  ooh aah22:59
mgedminI wouldn't trust it anyway22:59
javispedroMadde might have speciall logic for executable perms22:59
javispedroconsidering windows doesn't implement those.22:59
mgedmingive me .debs22:59
ShadowJKmgedmin, what make/model?22:59
lcukmgedmin, of course for a pro like yourself thats the expected way22:59
mgedminor a shell script I can read and interpreted myself, one command at a time22:59
lcukbut for n00bs its simpler to step through22:59
mgedminShadowJK, Intel X25-M with a lot of qualifications I don't really understand (MLC -- okay, I know what *that* is, 34NM -- huh?)23:00
ShadowJKForget about MLC and 34 nm23:00
mgedminlcuk, s/pro/paranoid person/23:00
ShadowJKIt's all about the controller23:00
lcukmgedmin, one and the same23:00
ShadowJKand intel is both kicking ass, and proven23:00
mgedminthen there were models ending in G2C1 and G2R4 (or was it R5?)23:00
mgedminI got the C1 one23:00
mgedminbecause the other one was out of stock23:00
*** victorpoluceno has quit IRC23:01
javispedrobah, I was already starting to forget how cool the n900 was.23:01
mgedminbit on the expensive side, but recent blog posts about 7-second Ubuntu boot time cinched it23:01
javispedrothough everytime I use the n810 I have the urge to try diablo's h-d on the n900 :)23:01
mgedminwhat's h-d?23:02
javispedrohildon-desktop, I mean.23:02
mgedminthe only things I miss from my n810 are the half-size virtual keyboard, bluetooth file sending and SMB browsing in the file manager23:03
javispedroand I miss the task navigator23:03
mgedminand the kickstand, maybe23:03
mgedminI love the new task navigator, but wish it let me reorder apps by dragging23:03
Arif_what about the craptastic speakers :P23:03
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo23:05
FlandryThere's a quote for my wall: <javispedro> mgedmin: i've seen a shitload of weird things like that within scratchbox.23:05
*** igagis has quit IRC23:06
mgedmin"I've seen things you humans wouldn't believe: sunrise on Titan, permission bits disappearing into the void inside scratchbox, ..."23:06
javispedromy current explanation is that "fakeroot" has a limited buffer size.23:06
SpeedEvilAll these things fade. Like charged gates in the rain.23:06
lcukmgedmin, i believe the permission bits23:06
lcukntfs has a healthy habit of that itself23:06
mgedminthat's only because you were there23:07
mgedminjavispedro: !23:07
mgedmininteresting theory23:07
mgedminis it true?23:07
mgedmindoesn't fakeroot stop and complain loudly when this happens?23:07
javispedrodunno, didn't even look at the code.23:07
mgedminnah, I don't believe it23:07
mgedminfakeroot is used for all kinds of huge packages all the time (think: openoffice)23:08
javispedrohm... but this is sbox's own years-old fakeroot we're talking about.23:08
mgedminopenoffice wasn't written yesterday...23:09
dmbopenoffice was written 5 years ago either23:09
javispedrotouché. so back to "a wizard hides my execute permission bits".23:09
javispedro"or gives back ownership of them to user -- instead of root"23:10
mgedminthe wizards are subtle and quick to anger23:11
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo23:11
* mgedmin ponders stracing the dpkg-buildpackage and grepping the log for MaeRemote, then looking for chmod()/fchmod() calls23:11
mgedminno, wait, the permissions are right on the fs23:11
* mgedmin is flummoxed again23:12
Milo-okay, another question, where do I place the pictures in the project which my UI uses?23:12
* javispedro once added two chmod -R calls "just to be sure"23:12
*** wazd has quit IRC23:12
*** alterego has quit IRC23:12
Milo-currently my UI has few pictures, but when I execute my binary, those pictures doesn't show up, unless those pictures are in the CWD.23:12
*** Sargun has joined #maemo23:13
Milo-but if I want those pictures to show up on default, how should I create my build directories ?23:13
javispedrowhile on the topic of magic,
mgedminwell, the Debian way would be: make sure your package installs them in /usr/share/yourpkgname/picture1.png etc.23:14
mgedminand have your app load them from that location23:14
javispedrosee the error message and the different "stat file" commands I've put there for debuggin.23:14
mgedminthe Maemo way would be: make sure your package installs them in /opt/maemo/usr/share/yourpkgname/picture1.png and loads them from that location23:14
Milo-mgedmin both ways are not very developer-friendly :)23:15
MohammadAGsudo su works on the N900 lol23:15
MohammadAGdidn't work before23:15
Flandrydeveloper friendly directories?23:16
lcukMilo-, are you a windows developer?23:16
lcukwhat do you work in?23:16
javispedroMohammadAG: the "didn't work before" part is true; but it doesn't work here, asks me for root password.23:16
mgedminjavispedro, 128-char pathname limit?23:16
javispedromgedmin: 128-char _only_?23:17
Milo-lcuk just don't like filling my /usr/share/ with pictures while I'm trying to develop something :P23:17
mgedminI dunno, I was just wondering23:17
javispedroif that explains it I'm going to kill someone.23:17
mgedminseems short23:17
Milo-I like to keep my pictures in my git repo23:17
lcukMilo-, but if its your app folder you can23:17
lcukcos you can uninstall reinstall23:17
lcukif its user pictures, look in /home/user/*23:17
Milo-true but installing and uninstalling, what a mess23:17
Milo-make clean && make && ./a.out \o/23:18
mgedminMilo-, yeah, I like my apps to run from the current directory without installing too23:18
*** jophish has quit IRC23:18
javispedromgedmin: fortunately, while it is 100% reproducible on the diablo autobuilder, it works OK on the fremantle autobuilder and on my local scratchbox setup.23:18
lcukso you are on device developing23:18
mgedminso I usually do something if file_exists('/usr/share/myapp/img.png'), use that, otherwise fall back to ./images/img.png23:18
lcuki made original liqbase look in 2 places for its app data (including media)23:18
lcukif i ran it from my dev folder /media/mmc/svn/liqbase  it would see the media inside mmc23:19
javispedroMohammadAG: now you're going to have to guess which extras package has added a NOPASSWD "su" entry in your sudoers23:19
lcukotherwise from an installed system it would find it in /usr/share/liqbase23:19
*** Chewtoy has quit IRC23:19
Milo-lcuk that is not a bad idea actually23:19
Milo-though, only place where I use pictures, is in css.23:20
mgedminjavispedro, I just tried echo '/home/builder1/maemo-diablo-armel-extras-devel/work/corsixth-0.0.0-beta1/debian/corsixth-data/usr/share/games/CorsixTH/CorsixTH'|wc -c and got back 12823:20
Milo-how do I check for existance in css? :P23:20
Milo-especially when my GUI has been created with qtdesigner23:20
mgedminjavispedro, I would probably try to rename the CorsixTH file to something shorter and upload it to the autobuilder, just to test the 127-char filename limit23:20
*** Aranel has quit IRC23:20
javispedromgedmin: yeah, sounds plausible23:21
mgedminMilo-, those are very good questions23:21
Milo-maybe I should move the stylesheet from stylesheet file to constructor23:21
RST38hjavis: BTW, CorsixTH never worked for me23:21
RST38hjavis: Is there something I am missing?23:21
javispedroRST38h: yes, it's not install-and-run23:21
mgedminMilo-, I'd be inclined to cargo-cult, i.e. find some open-source app using qt and images then see how it was made23:21
*** doubleukay has quit IRC23:21
javispedroRST38h: you have to copy the hospital files manually, edit some config files, etc.23:21
*** doubleukay_ has joined #maemo23:21
mgedminit's not really cargo-culting if you understand how something works when you copy it23:21
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC23:21
MohammadAGjavispedro, if you do guess which one it is, tell me lol23:22
mgedminlcuk, if you're looking for reading matter, I suggest Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series23:22
Flandrycargo-cult? What a weird expression23:22
lcukooh a series23:22
MohammadAGdoes anyone know how to disable the boot logo?23:22
lcuki dont like reading individual books23:23
MohammadAGkernel-flasher-maemo used to have it disabled23:23
lcuki tend to get into the story and want more23:23
* mgedmin nods23:23
FlandryNot the same as "borrowing code"23:23
lcukim spying peter hamilton23:23
lcukhes got some decent series available23:23
* mgedmin wonders if freenode has a channel for book-lovers23:24
*** pupnik has joined #maemo23:24
RST38hspeaking of cargo cults, TI84+SE emulation is not coming. Yet.23:24
RST38hmgedmin: Undernet #bookz.23:24
javispedro"Other interpretations include: threatening your computer with a shotgun until it has been debugged."23:25
*** OldNugget has joined #maemo23:25
RST38hLooks like TI84+SE protects its ROM really well =)23:25
*** OldNugget has quit IRC23:25
* mgedmin wants to talk book recommendations, not swap around pirated bookz23:25
Flandryheh if i'd actually red that book on my shelf i'd have known the term23:25
FlandryAt least my library is well-read23:26
pupnik:) /me remembers his dad's 1979 TI calculator fondly23:26
pupnikthose happy red LEDs...23:26
* mgedmin first learned that term from Niven's _Dream Park_23:27
* mgedmin then remembers being surprised that people had to explain what "cargo cult" is when introducing "cargo cult programming" etc.23:27
*** lmoura has quit IRC23:27
*** kakashi_ has quit IRC23:28
FlandryOnly Niven book i have read is ringworld and lucifer's hammer23:28
RST38hmgedmin: talking books recommendations is a bad idea23:28
pupniki first heard of cargo cullts from Feynman's autobiography23:28
RST38hmgedmin: as tastes differ, a lot23:28
Flandryyeah that's the one on my shelf i haven't read23:28
mgedminRST38h, whaddayamean, I'm out of books to read and am climbing walls23:28
mgedminokay, tastes differ, true23:29
RST38hmgedmin: Can I suggest Lithuanian Criminal Code? =)23:29
mgedmin(everyone is wrong except me, of course)23:29
* RST38h cackles evilly23:29
FlandryMistborn series?23:29
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo23:29
mgedminRST38h, if I'd wanted to read that, I'd have gone into law school23:29
FlandryI liked the implementation of magics for that23:30
RST38hBut anyway, what genre/subgenre do you feel like reading?23:30
* mgedmin likes SF23:30
*** SWFu64 has quit IRC23:30
mgedminI think I got the Mistborn e-book when had that promotional campaing for their new website23:30
RST38hmgedmin: more specific?23:30
FlandryThere's always the Lensman series if you want to indulge your adolescent side :P23:31
mgedminspecifics are hard...23:31
SpeedEvilI've recently been enjoying in that vein.23:31
*** doubleukay_ has quit IRC23:31
SpeedEvilHornblower + dragons.23:31
* mgedmin read them, liked them23:31
FlandryI like Poul Anderson's work23:32
*** doubleukay has joined #maemo23:32
mgedminLois McMaster Bujold, Charles Stross, Terry Pratchett, Steven Brust23:32
mgedminEric Flint's works are fun to read23:32
SpeedEvilAll good.23:32
RST38hmgedmin: Ok. Try Blindsight by Peter Watts. Available from his web site for free.23:32
mgedminas well as David Eddings's23:32
mgedminooh, Peter Watts23:32
* SpeedEvil has been reading 163[0-9]23:32
mgedminKarl Schroeder also has a free ebook on his website23:32
FlandryHe pays a lot of attention to details and has good problem/solution adventures23:32
RST38hmgedmin: Although I am afraid it will be somewhat too cerebral after reading Bujold and Pratchett23:33
SpeedEvilfree SF library23:33
mgedminthe problems with writers like Bujold and Pratchett is that almost anything else feels like a letdown after them23:33
*** Dantonic has joined #maemo23:33
*** SWFu64 has joined #maemo23:33
RST38hNow you have created a problem23:34
Flandryhmm that sounds like a challenge23:34
* mgedmin forgot to mention Robin McKinley23:34
*** MrGoose1 has joined #maemo23:34
RST38hBut should be doable, just gimme a moment23:34
SpeedEvilI like  Jim Butcher's dresden PI23:34
FlandryJack McDevitt has some nice scifi23:34
mgedminalmost threw the second book at the wall, then it got really good23:34
* mgedmin is currently reading T. A. Pratt's Marla Mason series23:35
SpeedEvilBaen has some silly books. Programming magic.23:35
mgedminRobin Cook?23:35
SpeedEvilRick Cook23:35
mgedmingot bored in book 323:35
mgedminer, yes23:35
SpeedEvilIt might have been robin23:35
lcukdamn pdf23:35
mgedminmy fingers cached the 'Robin'23:35
RST38hmgedmin: Robert Asprin?23:35
mgedminlcuk, makes PDFs readable in fbreader23:36
RST38hmgedmin: Ursula Leguin?23:36
FlandryLoved the myth series back in the day23:36
lcukim on about windas expee23:36
SpeedEvilMyth* is very good light reading.23:36
*** doubleukay_ has joined #maemo23:36
RST38hmgedmin: Anything by Zelazny?23:36
mgedminI liked _Another Fine Myth_ when I first read it (a LT translation by the local SF publisher), didn't quite enjoy it when I re-read it in English years later23:36
*** rdorsch has quit IRC23:36
RST38hmgedmin: (including the satanic cycle)23:36
*** doubleukay has quit IRC23:37
mgedminZelazny is not bad23:37
mgedminI read some things by Ursula LeGuin, don't quite remember my reaction23:37
felipeczaheerm: did your problems with msn-pecan got fixed?23:37
SpeedEvilGlen Cook is worth a read too. The black company are some of the best done series I've seen.23:37
* RST38h is really careful to only choose teenage stuff23:37
SpeedEvilLegionaire era merceneries in a land with magic.23:38
RST38hmgedmin; Brian Jacques?23:38
* lcuk throws pdf out the window and loses mails he was writing23:38
derfZelazny was my favorite teenage stuff.23:38
Arif_I lost my pen23:38
*** Cy8aer1 has joined #maemo23:38
mgedminlcuk, poppler-utils can be built on Windows; Python also works on Windows, so if you have a PDF you want to read very much, you can hack it23:38
FlandryChronicles of Amber fun23:38
* RST38h reread Zelazny at 30 and could not understand how he could read that23:39
* SpeedEvil walks the pattern.23:39
mgedminRST38h, Brian Jacuqes is the first name I don't recognize23:39
lcukmgedmin, its just a few pdfs that shouldnt be a problem - single pagers23:39
derfHell, I even liked The Black Throne back then.23:39
Flandryyeah haha true23:39
lcukthat if i had known they were gonna lock up my machine i wouldv exported23:39
RST38hmgedmin: Mice. Mice in armor. Many, many mice.23:39
derfI am not stupid enough to go back and read it now.23:39
mgedmineven if I spelt it correctly ;)23:39
RST38hmgedmin: Other small furry animals in armor too23:39
* SpeedEvil wants a scrith case for his n900.23:39
lcukniven == god23:39
mgedminooh, how could I've forgotten to mention Neal Stephenson?23:39
Arif_first 5 results on "n900 stylus" search on google leads to maemo.org23:39
* mgedmin liked _The Mote in God's Eye_23:39
lcuklol SpeedEvil23:39
*** Jago has joined #maemo23:39
lcukthat and a variable sword23:39
RST38hmgedmin: Heinlein.23:40
SpeedEvillcuk: naah. Swap the flash LED for a tasp.23:40
mgedminI _think_ I read everything by Heinlein23:40
lcukmgedmin, the mote was good, reminded me of linux enthusiasts23:40
*** davyg has joined #maemo23:40
RST38hmgedmin: Harrison?23:40
FlandryHeinlein is also one that i can't read again now23:40
lcukbuilding and making full use of everything around em23:40
Flandrygood comparison23:40
lcukdid you read the followup23:40
*** mschr has quit IRC23:40
* lcuk digs into memorybank for the name23:41
Flandrywhat was it called?23:41
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC23:41
zaheermfelipec, yep, been working very well since the last package you gave me which disabled offline messages, thx23:41
RST38hmgedmin: Martin? =)23:41
mgedminlcuk, _The Gripping Hand_ IIRC23:41
derfGeorge R. R. Martin?23:41
pupnikhow nice to see favorite chatters here this evening23:41
felipeczaheerm: cool :) offline messages are now enabled, but should work now23:41
RST38hmgedmin: Sapkovsky?23:41
derf(not SF, but the first Martin I thought of)23:41
RST38hmgedmin: Oldi?23:41
FlandryOh, i don't think i read that23:41
SpeedEvilDiamond Age.23:42
* RST38h ran out of teenage stuff23:42
mgedminyeah, I'd love to know how life pans out for Arya, but I'm not holding my breath23:42
FlandryGood followup?23:42
RST38hmgedmin: Pullman? Gaiman?23:42
mgedminRST38h, the Witcher guy?  Played the game, never read any of his books23:42
lcukstephensons books kinda just finish unexp23:42
mgedminI loved a couple of books by Oldi23:42
mgedminGaiman rules23:43
RST38hmgedmin: You will like Sapkovski.23:43
mgedminPullman ... I liked The Golden Compass, was disappointed by the other two23:43
derfErr, somehow I'm confusing GRRM with Martin Cruz Smith.23:43
RST38hWell, Gaiman is borderline teenage stuff23:43
lcuksnowcrash kicked ass23:43
derfBoth Martins with too many names.23:43
SpeedEvilRST38h: Good Omens was awesome.23:43
*** millenomi has quit IRC23:43
*** Gadgetoid_mbp has joined #maemo23:43
lcukSpeedEvil, scrith or hull material btw23:44
RST38hBeyond Gaiman, there is insanity, drug use, and general misantropy23:44
SpeedEvillcuk: hull material for the screen, scrith for the case.23:44
zaheermfelipec, ok great, is your latest package in extras-testing yet?23:44
lcukbut scrith comes into its own at orbital scale23:44
RST38hmgedmin: But ok, let us say Muse of Fire by Simmons23:45
derfIf you want insanity, drug use, and general misantropy, you want PKD.23:45
lcukyou can paint hull material23:45
mgedminPKD failed to click with me23:45
*** b-man17 has joined #maemo23:45
* mgedmin not a big fan of insanity, drug use or general misantropy23:45
SpeedEvilflow my tears.23:45
RST38hderf: Naah, the guy was a dick.23:45
felipeczaheerm: no, the one I released today is only on -devel, probably tomorrow I'll push it to -testing23:45
SpeedEvilHarlan Elison is strange.23:46
RST38hderf: Besides, we will end up with Burroughs at this rate23:46
derfRST38h: I don't want to be his friend, I just want to read his books.23:46
SpeedEvil"I have no mouth and I must scream"23:46
lcukwhos read the new niven books? fleet|juggler|destroyer of worlds |23:46
zaheermfelipec, ok will test it tomorrow in any case whether it is in -devel or -testing23:46
SpeedEvillcuk: I got very dissapointed23:46
derfI mean, Harlan Ellison does't win personality contests, either.23:46
RST38hBut then I am not reading him23:46
SpeedEvillcuk: I haven't read the newer ones after a _massive_ dissapointment23:46
RST38hDull shit.23:46
FlandryNot many writers do?23:46
felipeczaheerm: thanks :)23:46
lcuki liked them, was gonna read them all whatever, but it was a decent storyline23:47
zaheermfelipec, no worries, keep up the good work...i only do IM on my n900 now23:47
lcukit would be hard to outdo the rest of the known space ringworld setting books23:47
FlandrySadly most of my reading was as a teen so that's my repertoire23:47
zaheermfelipec, that's why my nexusone google gave me, i only use for google maps23:47
SpeedEvilWen Spencer is a good read usually.23:47
FlandryStainless steel rat23:48
lcukFlandry, the good thing about good books is they are timeless23:48
lcukso you can talk about them as if you read them yesterday23:48
mgedminSSR was my introduction to SF23:48
SpeedEvil'Tinker' - protagonist is a female scrapyard operator.23:48
zaheermfelipec, silly device for im with no keyboard...and i use sms/im more than voice on my phone23:48
mgedminit was also the reason I learned to read Russian23:48
RST38hoh wait23:48
FlandryWell, yeah, but my tastes have changed, and my hormone levels ;)23:48
cehtehmhm some progress meter for downloading maps would be nice .. but well i prolly should started it with downloading the whole county23:48
RST38hmgedmin: Farmer.23:48
zaheermfelipec, and pecan is the best of the 3 msn options23:48
lcukplayboy is your usual now :p23:48
*** rlinfati has joined #maemo23:48
*** rlinfati has quit IRC23:49
SpeedEvilcehteh: where from?23:49
Flandrymore like chemistry and materials references23:49
Flandrythat's not really pleasure reading though23:49
cehtehsouth/western part23:49
lcukmgedmin, totally different topoic, gtimelog - what would be required to tie it in with monitoring irc chans for its entries23:49
SpeedEvilI prefer well constructed self-consistent detailed fantasy worlds.23:49
mgedmincehteh, what mapping app?23:49
SpeedEvilcehteh: I meant what source.23:50
cehtehmaemo mapper23:50
cehtehwhat else :P23:50
mgedminmaemo-mapper used to make my n810 run out of RAM and crash if I tried to download too many maps (like over 25 megs)23:50
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo23:50
felipeczaheerm: yeah, I also do IM on my N900 now... the keyboard is pretty decent23:50
mgedminbut m-m has a progress bar for the downloading...23:50
SpeedEvilfelipec: surprisingly so.23:50
cehtehthere was an update today which fixed the map download stuff, seems it works fine now23:50
zaheermfelipec, i never use my desktp, that is how good the n900 im experience is23:50
Flandryhave you read "The High Crusade" by Anderson? That's a fun little sci-fi read23:50
*** SWFu64 has quit IRC23:50
SpeedEvilcehteh: osm2go is good.23:50
cehtehbut needs a lot of ram23:50
SpeedEvilFlandry: yup.23:50
mgedminFlandry, yep23:51
*** SWFu64 has joined #maemo23:51
FlandryIt's the one i recommend to non-scifi readers23:51
*** rdorsch has joined #maemo23:51
RST38hOh wait23:51
felipecand I have all my accounts there, now even facebook :p23:51
RST38hmgedmin: Snegov, all three books =)23:51
mgedminfelipec, does facebook chat work for you?23:51
mgedminit rejects my login since yesterday23:52
mgedminRST38h, Sne-who?23:52
mgedminanother unfamiliar name23:52
MohammadAGmgedmin, using Jabber?23:52
RST38hmgedmin: No wonder, you are too young to remember :)23:53
mgedminmy knowledge of Russian SF is small23:53
mgedminMohammadAG, yes23:53
MohammadAGkeeps saying Network Error here23:53
lcukmgedmin, how long did it take you to learn russian23:53
mgedminI read a few books back before I learned to pay attention to things like author names23:53
MohammadAGovi chat does the same23:53
RST38hmgedmin: In short, the pretty much the first attempt at space opera in Russian23:53
mgedmindidn't like most of them, started ignoring the whole field23:53
*** b-man17 has quit IRC23:53
* SpeedEvil tries to think of russian SF.23:53
mgedminliked Lukyanenko's _Labyrinth of Mirrors_ later23:53
SpeedEvilStanislaw Lem. Nope, polish I guess23:53
felipecmgedmin: yeah, works fine through XMPP23:54
RST38hmgedmin: Urgh. You are making it really difficult to suggest anything.23:54
mgedminfelipec, thanks!23:54
mgedminso it's a problem on my end, not facebook's23:54
zaheermmgedmin, works for me fine with jabber23:54
RST38hmgedmin: I mean... Luk'yanenko... urgh,23:54
mgedminRST38h, don't worry, I heard a few suggestions of things I haven't read and am interested23:54
mgedminlike _Mistborn_23:54
mgedminI think FBReader didn't like the .zip tor gave me23:55
lcukpeter hamilton does space opera23:55
mgedminit has a .opf file inside referring to a file that doesn't exist23:55
*** colonelqubit has joined #maemo23:55
mgedminI'll need to unzip and fix it on the laptop first23:55
mgedminlcuk, yup, read it, wasn't bad23:55
mgedminbetter than okay even23:55
MohammadAGmgedmin, if you find a fix do highlight me :)23:55
lcukmgedmin, which books of his23:55
mgedminMohammadAG, Google Talk often gives me "Network Error"23:55
MohammadAGI've tried killing telepathy, but kilalll keeps saying no process killed23:55
lcuki was planning on getting the first from a few of his series23:56
mgedminfacebook tells me "authentication failed"23:56
MohammadAGmgedmin, a reboot should fix that23:56
lcukand then following the rest23:56
MohammadAGsays Network error here23:56
MohammadAGThe N900 keeps trying to connect too, the battery went flat in 2 hours23:56
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC23:56
mgedminlcuk, sorry, missed your question in the deluge23:57
lcukdont worry23:57
lcukim getting a batch of his books and will just follow which look good23:57
SpeedEvilAnyway - the baen free library is a very good sampling of hte field.23:57
SpeedEvilWorth downloading for use with fbreader.23:58
mgedminlcuk, the Mindstar Rising trilogy, the Commonwealth Saga and, Night's Dawn series23:58
mgedminalso _Fallen Dragon_23:58
mgedminbaen ++23:58
mgedminthat's where I found Eric Flint23:58
SpeedEvilhamilton is very worth a read too.23:59
*** rdorsch has quit IRC23:59
lcukyeah, and not just worth it, hes prolific23:59
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo23:59
* mgedmin would give hamilton a 3.5 or 4 out of 523:59
lcukso if you like his style you can keep reading for ages23:59
*** unixSnob has quit IRC23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!