IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-02-19

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asjMilo-: ir I beleive00:01
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asjMilo-: you can watch is working by poiting a camera at it00:01
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Milo-hard to define its type like that00:02
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lardmanmust be long wave IR if you can see it with a camera but not the eye00:04
SpeedEvilLongwave IR is thermal IR00:05
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lardmanlong-long wave then00:05
lardmanI have a long wave IR camera00:05
SpeedEvilIR LEDs arejust outside the  visible band00:05
SpeedEviltypically anyway00:05
Kegetysit is IR00:05
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SpeedEvil'UV' LEDs typically just inside.00:06
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lardmannear-IR they call it don't they?00:06
asjMilo-: not at all...00:06
asjMilo-: it flashes an ir led and looks for the relection00:07
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SpeedEvillardman; yes00:07
asjthe only reason it doesn't use visible is because that would annoy us humans...00:07
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lardmandoh, is short-short wave IR then of course00:08
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lardmanit's an LED + LDR pair I guess, from the look of it anyway00:09
lardmanassuming I'm looking at the right thing00:09
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asjof all things it isn't is an LDR, but anyways ;)00:10
lardmanwhat is it then?00:11
SpeedEvilphototransistor prolly00:11
Milo-datasheet would be so much clearer :)00:11
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SpeedEvilpossibly an integrated module00:11
lardmanhmm, didn't get many phototransistors in my CDT classes :)00:11
* SpeedEvil has so much random crap to try with the n900.00:11
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adalalwhat is soft poweroff00:12
pwnguinusually when a computer powers itself off00:13
pwnguinvia software00:13
Milo-but if it's a photo resistor or transistor, shouldn't it go mental in the dark?00:13
asjlardman: photoresistors tend to be big long things, photodiodes/phototransistors/etc can be very small00:13
SpeedEvilasj: - off-topic00:13
lardmanasj: ah ok00:13
SpeedEvilMilo-: no - it's working of reflected light00:13
Milo-I see00:14
lardmanthough I wonder how they stop incident near IR from triggering it?00:14
SpeedEvillardman: either high levels - or modulation00:14
Milo-I don't have any ir devices :(00:14
cehtehmodulation for sure00:14
SpeedEvilMilo-: all IRs00:14
SpeedEvilMilo-: remote controls ratehr00:14
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lardmanSpeedEvil: well my ear is hot so even if it's not reflective.... :)00:15
Milo-still, don't have any :P00:15
pwnguinlardman: keep in mind the LED emits basically a single wavelength00:15
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pwnguinlardman: so you should be able to tune the sensor to it versus the broad ambient spectrum00:15
SpeedEvillardman: thermal IR (from humans) is in the ~10um range. The IR LED is in the 1um range wavelength.00:15
lardmanI was taking the mick don't worry :)00:15
SpeedEvillardman: though not if the human in question is on fire of course.00:15
Milo-how about, what causes vibration in n900?00:16
SpeedEvilA little motor00:16
asjalso keep in mind you can measure incident light before the pulse, so you just look for the increase if any and then decrease after the pulse00:16
Milo-I mean how to trigger such in own code?00:16
* cehteh actually wondered why one couldnt used the frontcam for all this things, proximity, brightness sensor and stuff 00:16
SpeedEvilwith a weight on it00:16
adalalwhat's the name of the x program?00:16
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adalalon maemo5?00:16
SpeedEvilMilo-: the right way is to use mce to trigger it00:16
Milo-Yes I know how the vibrator works :P00:16
SpeedEvilcehteh: the prox sensor can have very low standby current00:16
SpeedEvilcehteh: the camera can't.00:16
crashanddiefrals: it feels so weird having the moral high-ground (re: post on mailing list)00:16
cehtehleaving the brightness sensor and proximity sensor out would given 3 euros more for the front cam ... meaning they could use one with much better quality :P00:16
asjcehteh: power consumption I bet, plus you need lgiht at night to see how far away your head is00:17
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Milo-SpeedEvil but how to make such event?00:17
crashanddiefrals: it's a position I had never taken before, I might try it more often00:17
Milo-suppose they are exceptions, rather than events00:17
asjcehteh: you sure it's as much as 3 euro?00:17
SpeedEvilcehteh: the front camera will have cost around 1 euro. The prox sensor and brightness sensor perhaps another 0.500:17
fralscrashanddie: gotta be a first for everything ;)00:17
cehtehSpeedEvil: i dont mean to run the frontcam as cam .. but with some proper firmware this should be feasible00:17
SpeedEvilcehteh: it's possible00:17
crashanddieanyway, I'm off to work, talk later00:18
lardmancu crashanddie00:18
SpeedEvilcehteh: but you have to have the camera active a fair proportion of the time. And to read brightness from it - the CPU has to be largely active.00:18
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cehtehwell they could really spend a little more on the frontcam00:18
adalalanyone knows what x terminal runs on maemo5?00:18
SpeedEvilcehteh: with the prox sensor - you simply wait or an interrupt00:18
SpeedEvilcehteh: preliminary tests indicate that it's not meeting the specs in the datasheet - by a _LONG_ way00:18
lardmanadalal: the term or the shell?00:18
cehtehSpeedEvil: seem mouses .. they have basically small camera chips (16x16 pixel or even less) and run at very high fps and dont need much power00:19
SpeedEvilcehteh: I need to get a proper lightbox setup00:19
adalallardman: term00:19
SpeedEvilcehteh: sure.00:19
cehtehlaser and ir mouses the ones without balls00:19
SpeedEvilcehteh: and the camera doesn't do that.00:19
cehtehi bet one could design a camera which can be used for such purposes00:19
SpeedEvilcehteh: and a custom camera would cost more00:19
lardmanadalal: is called "X Terminal"00:19
cehtehwell too late for sorry. it is like it is00:19
SpeedEvilcehteh: mobile phone cameras are _total_ commodities.00:20
adalallardman: how do you start it, on, say xephyr, on a remote computer?00:20
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lardmanadalal: osso-xterm00:20
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cehtehSpeedEvil: well the main cam is certainly not that cheap00:21
SpeedEvilcehteh: it's $35 as a spare part00:21
cehtehquite impressive for that00:21
SpeedEvilcehteh: at least to authorised repairers.00:21
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SpeedEvilcehteh: so calling it about half that in volume probably isn't unreasonable.00:22
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adalallardman: i can't get osso-xterm to start up on my computer's xephyr session... any idea why?00:24
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lardmanadalal: no idea sorry, I don't use sb x86 target00:26
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SpeedEvilHmm. Neat.00:33
SpeedEvilyou can run hildon-status-menu with DISPLAY exported to your laptop or wherever to see phone status.00:34
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fralsSpeedEvil: cool :>00:36
SpeedEvilOooh - wacky.00:36
SpeedEvilhildon-home too.00:36
* SpeedEvil has icons and widgets all over his laptop00:36
areayhi all... i'm in the uk, some of my buddies that live in other countries tell me there's an n900 fw update. how come i can't get it here? nokia says it was released on feb 16th00:36
ali1234i got it yesterday00:37
SpeedEvilali1234: in the UK?00:37
SpeedEvilAlso uin the UK, and no update00:37
ali1234although last time i reflashed (PR1.1) the UK specific firmware was not available00:37
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ali1234the UK specific firmware always seems to come later than the others00:37
areayyeah its pretty annoying. im not even british and i feel discriminated00:38
ali1234so i'm on international right now00:38
ali1234and i still got the 1.1.1 update a day later than other people00:38
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areayali1234 is there any difference?00:38
ali1234no idea00:38
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ali1234no noticable ones00:38
ali1234i didn't go looking00:38
areayis the keybo00:39
areaykb layout the same*00:39
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cehtehthere are not that much fixes in 1.1.1 .. you dont need to hurry with the update00:43
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asjunless you have wifi battery drain issues00:43
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lardmanclose escape there, nearly sneezed coffee over my N90000:47
Lumpio-Your life sure is an exciting adventure.00:47
lardmanyeah, I thought you'd all be interested to hear the exciting news and all ;)00:47
* Arif burps00:49
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maheranyone running an n900 on t-mobile in the usa? I don't seem to be getting 3g reception00:56
Xisdibik_n900i am maher00:56
Xisdibik_n900granted i have mine set to GSM only now, but i have no issues getting 3G when i need it00:57
maheri see all these bars and underneath a 2.5 - i assume that means I am on EDGE not 3G00:57
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ArifI'm on TMobile but not in the US ={00:58
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maherXisdibik_n900: how do you toggle back and forth between gsm only?00:58
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Arifit's Friday!01:00
Arifsays mIRC o.o01:00
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juhovhyeah, it's Friday :P01:01
juhovhbeen for an hour01:01
Arifstop living in the future!01:01
Xisdibik_n900maher, in the phone section of settinhs, or there is an app in the repos to add it to the status area thing01:02
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Arifthe media player is hating me01:02
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maherXisdibik_n900: thanks! why on earth don't they default to 3g?01:03
maherXisdibik_n900: anyway - you probably saved me four hours of digging through the settings and google...01:03
SpeedEvilmaher: it's a complex answer - the cell-towers can broadcast hints01:03
SpeedEvilas to signal levels the phone should switch at01:03
* Arif hands maher the 2G/3G switcher applet01:04
maherwell - now it says 3g - we'll see if i can actually get some packets in or out....01:05
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maheroooOOOOoooo - now it says 3.5 !!!!01:06
maherso if i go somewhere where there is no 3g will i have to manually switch back to gsm?01:07
Arifdid you set it to 3G or DUAL01:07
Xisdibik_n900maher, it defaults to both i think, but i could be wrong,  are you sure there is 3g in your area?01:08
maherwell it says 3g now01:08
ShadowJKThe default is "Dual", which switches between 2g and 3g depending on signal levels and network configuration01:09
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:20
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lardmanlikewise, night all01:25
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maherhmmm.... skype seems happy but other internet thingsok - doesn't work for me but works just fine01:29
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* lcuk pokes wazd 01:43
wazdSomeone has located nice korean 810 blog :)01:43
lcukcan you read it01:44
lcukcos i cant01:44
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wazdlcuk: gtranslate it to your favourite language :)01:48
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lcukif i did that, i still would not understand it, there is something aluring about hearing a lady speak french lol01:49
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lcukhey there frals01:49
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fralshows you?01:50
lcukjust got out of the bath, had a long but productive day01:50
lcukmanaged to get rid of green flashes on startup of liqbase01:51
fralscool :)01:51
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lcukindeed, still not gone from everywhere, but it makes things a bit more comfortable01:52
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fralshmpf, seems i cant get 2 gprs connections up anymore.. im almost certain i could do that before :<01:54
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lcukfrals, ive had that fight many times, undo the commit01:56
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fralsive not changed anything, but i suspect pr1.1.1 did01:56
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lcukfrals, you have a dev device now dont you?01:57
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fralsyeah, had it not been 01 i wouldve reflashed it01:58
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lcukif you are comfortable flashing it, could you backport yourself to 1.1 or 1.0 and confirm01:58
lcukit would be interesting to know really01:59
DocScrutinizersounds like English though :-S02:00
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lcukfrals pushes gits on the bus02:04
lcukthen laughs like a schoolgirl02:04
lcukDocScrutinizer, which does02:04
lcukis git in extras then02:05
lcukor just devel02:05
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fralsthink its devel not sure02:05
fralstheres a few different ones as well02:05
fralshad me confused as i had git-core on one device and just 'git' on the other and they didnt include the same stuff :P02:05
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lcukand when i was using it02:06
lcuki could only get the n8x0 version02:06
fralsseems went to sleep now as well02:06
lcukGeneralAntilles, do you know when -devel -testing came on line?02:07
GeneralAntilleslcuk, devel's been around forever02:07
fralsguess i should take that as a sign i should head to bed as well02:07
GeneralAntilles-testing was created as part of the runnup for Maemo 502:07
fralsnite everyone o/02:07
GeneralAntillesSo, August/September-ish?02:07
lcuknite frals02:08
lcukyeah most likely GeneralAntilles and id forgotten -devel and main repo02:08
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DocScrutinizertoo hard to decode, bbl02:09
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chickengeorge_nirc://   SUPPORT-CHANNEL02:14
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lcukanyone got eMMC benchmarks for the n900 with different filesystems?02:15
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kynkylike ith fat or logfs or jffs2 ?02:17
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ShadowJK^^ benchmarks02:19
ShadowJKThe number that matters for a OS drive for a multitasking OS is the random read and write performance02:19
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lcukthanks ShadowJK \o02:21
ShadowJK5573.1 on nand vs 727.3 ext3 on emmc02:21
lcuki didnt think they would be findable lol02:21
lcukthose threads are easy to lose your sanity let alone important info02:21
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cehtehRST38h:   finished02:29
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GeneralAntillescehteh, package it! :P02:34
lcukcehteh, could you add the build command/dependencies somewhere please02:34
lcukyes, thats acceptable too ;)02:34
cehtehGeneralAntilles: i asked RST38h if he will package it together with xchat, he acknowledged that, makes more sense for me and less work02:34
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cehtehlcuk: compiling is descriped in a earlier post on that thread, you need to unpack xchat in the same dir (apt-get source xchat) because i dont know if there is a offical -dev package or how to access the xchat devl headers02:36
cehtehthe plugin on the post is without -g and -Os02:37
SpeedEvil'vibrator is only active when the display is on' ?02:37
SpeedEvilis that backwards?02:37
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* SpeedEvil missed the not02:37
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cehtehi being pedantic there02:37
cehtehactually there is also a 'dimmed' state02:38
cehtehcurrent software doesnt use it much (when its going off it goes through dim)02:38
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lcukceh900, i think thats configurable anyway02:38
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ShadowJKon Maemo4 the "dim" state lasted much longer02:38
lcukToiletOil, classy! how did you manage that02:39
ToiletOila bit of dbus magic02:40
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lcukyou mean you played for this error?  or it happened with normal reproducable steps02:41
lcukcehteh, ive noticed a bug in your post02:41
lcukits a 666 get, so we cannot install it02:42
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ToiletOilnah, it's just a standard system notification, I issued it myself02:42
ToiletOilbut it's pretty funny02:42
cehteh666 get?02:42
lcukyeah cehtahyour post ends in 666 :p02:43
SpeedEvilIt's a 4chan thing.02:43
GAN900cehteh, does it have a throttler?02:43
SpeedEvil4chan /b/ is like TMO - but with more intellectual debate.02:43
cehtehGAN900: feel free to add one .. at least having to tap 1000 dialogs is nasty, i considered that too02:44
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DocScrutinizercehteh: told ya it's nasty02:47
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DocScrutinizercehteh: you02:47
DocScrutinizercehteh: know02:47
DocScrutinizercehteh: what02:48
DocScrutinizercehteh: i02:48
DocScrutinizercehteh: mean02:48
DocScrutinizercehteh: ?02:48
cehteh /notify_mode -d02:48
cehtehon the other hand if you look at the morning at your device and you see what people wanted from you during night its nice02:49
DocScrutinizernobody needst that02:49
cehtehi like it02:49
cehteh(hey i programmed it because *I* like it this way)02:49
DocScrutinizerI'd prefer a dedicated tab for such purpose, like URL-collector02:50
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cehtehnice idea, where is your xchar plugin doing that?02:50
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GAN900cehteh, yeah, very similar to Growl for that.02:51
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DocScrutinizeractually it's called "URL Grabber"02:52
cehtehhighlight grabber in this case rather :)02:52
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* timeless_mbp cries02:55
* timeless_mbp looks for someone familiar w/ apache02:55
DocScrutinizercehteh: don't forget to credit me for original idea when you implement it ;-)02:55
cehtehi rather dont02:56
DocScrutinizeryeah it's too simple02:57
cehtehwell i had the original idea for your idea, which means a irc client which dispatches based on rules, not only channel tabs but you make destinations which can be multiple channels, regex matches and so on02:57
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, shortly after N900 was announced I started taking a 4chan approach to tmo. Drive-by-posting. When threads scroll off the first page I consider them dead02:57
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - it's broken that way02:57
SpeedEvilShadowJK: as it encourages it02:57
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ToiletOilalright, now I've managed to stream the camera of my n900 to my desktop, tunnel audio input, and I can also issue espeak commands via ssh. I think I'll set it up in the livingroom and see what the reactions are02:57
cehtehToiletOil: but you lost your keyboard :)02:58
ToiletOilcehteh: who need a keyboard when you've got ssh02:58
cehtehhehe true02:58
kynkythe thing that annoys me most about tmo, is the thing where ppl are just trying to get highest post count, lots of pointless mesages, prob like 9002:59
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DocScrutinizerToiletOil: don't forget the dangerous vib hum as soon as anybody approaches device :-P02:59
ToiletOilDocScrutinizer: I like a robotic "I can see you" a lot better03:01
DocScrutinizer"I got a poison sting!" BZZZZZZZZZZZ03:02
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* timeless_mbp frowns03:28
timeless_mbpso... no one wants to help me?03:28
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ShadowJKI have this impression apache is like this behemoth steampunk machine, it has a zillion levers and switches and can do anything as long as you find someone to shovel the coal and operate the levers :/03:31
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: wanna help me anyway?03:33
ToiletOilShadowJK: yeah, pretty much03:33
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* timeless_mbp kicks tar for abuse of English03:33
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timeless_mbpToiletOil: are you familiar w/ apache? :)03:35
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ShadowJKI'm not familiar with apache... I edited a apache 1.x config 9 years ago to make /~username/ work, or something silly like that..03:36
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ToiletOiltimeless_mbp: only to some extent03:36
ToiletOilI use lighttpd on my server03:36
timeless_mbpmy problems are simple03:36
timeless_mbpwanna try helping? :)03:37
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* mtd takes it the n900's phone UI is not open-source, right?04:01
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jebba900timeless_mbp what's up? didnt see scrollback04:04
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jebba900may need to open ports if its firewall issue04:04
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timeless_mbpjebba900: i can't convince apache to run my scripts04:04
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jebbatimeless_mbp: ok, msging you04:13
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fureddoIn this page:    Anyone knows what is the Qt widget used to render the line separating each section of the dialog?04:16
fureddoThe horizontal line.04:17
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swc|666fureddo, qframe maybe04:19
jebbatimeless_mbp: fixed
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fureddoYeah, looks like so.  Thanks!04:19
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TTilustimeless_mbp: why is that you dont wanna go ask #apache?06:40
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Jef91is there some kind of trick to getting my AIm to connect under VOIP/IM accounts? it works under pidgin on my n900 but not under IM in the conersation06:47
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MiXu-There's a plugin pack for that07:35
MiXu-in extras07:35
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Guest85276setenv IRCNICK eric.leopard08:30
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slonopotamusmeh... microb is painfully slow on n800 after 3 months with n90008:44
villemvuse tear08:44
villemvit's not slow, merely buggy :-)08:44
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slonopotamussloow. i get 'javascript on this page is runninng slowly, stop it?' here and there.08:45
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sejohey all when you are writing a python app for the maemo what db do you use? sqlite?08:59
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villemvsejo: sqlite09:09
villemvsejo: ditto for other apps using a db, basically09:10
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sejovillemv: thx09:13
sejohmm when I lounch the xephyr (scratchbox) I see almost no apps, aftec /scratchbox/login trying to do fakeroot apt-get update tells me it can't connect09:14
sejohow do I get connection?09:14
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sejosomeone knows how to connect with the scratchbox install to internet so I can update the target?09:32
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adeusmake sure /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is ok09:32
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JaffaMorning, all09:34
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sejoadeus: thanks09:35
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sejohmm my scratchbox doesn't find python2.5-qt4-gui09:42
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* DocScrutinizer waves10:01
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timeless_mbpTTilus: well, given that jebba fixed my problem for me, it doesn't seem right to bother them10:02
timeless_mbpit surely was an RTFM case10:03
timeless_mbpbut i'm not interested in learning 200 toolchain components10:03
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KhertanHello ... !10:44
KhertanDoes there is a problem with ?10:44
Shrik3someone dropped it10:45
Shrik3and it fell10:45
Khertanoh oh oh ...10:46
KhertanOh my god ... got a mail from the backup nas ... Disk Full10:47
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kalikianareboot loop after SSU.. not nice10:50
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crashanddieyo everyone11:50
crashanddieI need some help here, can anyone fill me in on what's been happening with SIO2?11:51
Stskeepsdiscussion still going on, i think11:51
crashanddieyeah, but what happened with the software and such?11:51
nid0they created several fake accts to vote up their own software into extras11:51
nid0without it actually getting tested properly11:51
crashanddieok, and?11:52
nid0they got found out11:52
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crashanddiethat's it?11:52
Stskeepscrashanddie: is a good summary :P11:52
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RST38hcrash: yea11:53
RST38hThat is basically it. Was gonna happen sooner or later.11:53
crashanddieIsn't that more likely proving the failure of our system?11:54
nid0well its both, there were some loopholes in the vode validation that let him do it and he's used that as justification for it11:55
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nid0the fact that you can exploit something isnt a good reason to, imo.11:55
zChristhats like saying you can break into a house just becosue you can crash the window :P11:55
nid0i can go stab someone this afternoon, my fault or societies for letting me?11:56
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zChrisnid0: societies ofcourse :)12:02
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jacekowskii've lost stylus12:04
pupnik_shut up12:04
crashanddiejacekowski: that's not a question12:04
jacekowskidoes anybody know where and how much does it cost to get a new one?12:04
crashanddiepupnik_: oy! Don't talk to me like that12:04
zChrisjacekowski: check the local stores?12:05
crashanddiejacekowski: finger works pretty well12:05
zChrisjacekowski: www.prisjakt.nu12:05
pupnik_i hate people who spread text over multiple lines crashanddie12:05
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zChrispupnik_: its impossible not to if you want to say something more than once ;)12:06
jacekowskii might just go to shop12:06
jacekowskithey have n900 on display12:06
jacekowskiand steal from there12:06
zChrisjacekowski: yeah they probably have one stylus for you12:06
jacekowskibut it's probably already stolen12:06
jacekowskipupnik_: don't hate me12:06
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* satmd reads and wonders12:07
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jacekowskii'll have to go home at lunch and verify if i don't have it12:08
jacekowskimaybe i left it there12:08
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satmdhow can I access a javascript context menu on microb? o_O12:10
pupnik_shut up zChris12:11
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olyany chance we are going to see python-avahi library or is it currently available somewhere already ?12:13
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zChrispupnik_: hihihi ^^12:14
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crashanddiesatmd: use the mouse icon12:18
crashanddiesatmd: swipe your finger from outside the lower left hand side of the screen12:18
lcukmornin crashanddie \o12:19
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olyalternatively do we have any other python libraries available for mdns ?12:23
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crashanddiemorning lcuk !12:31
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crashanddielcuk: how's it going?12:31
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lcukcrashanddie, its good :) seeing lots of things come together12:36
crashanddielcuk: in what aspects?12:36
lcuki cant tell you that :P12:36
lcukits my birthday tomorrow \o/12:36
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crashanddielcuk: I know it is12:38
crashanddielcuk: you bastard, you shouldn't have said it, now you'll never know if I really knew or not12:39
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lcukmore than me, with events this week i had forgotten12:39
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bvayou'll have a new one next year12:41
Termana_n810unless you get run over in the mean time ^o_o^ *evil laugh*12:43
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bvanow I'm starting to immagine all the things that can happen (funniest first)12:45
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vesaanyone tried grooveshark on the n900? i keep getting network errors.12:49
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Mecehey, you know Yakuake, as in the application?12:54
ifreqnope.. but i know the guy called yakuake12:54
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ifreqor was it a chick..12:54
vesascratch that, it works fine =)12:56
vesawho needs spotify!12:56
Sho_Mece: I know Yakuake12:56
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MeceI'd really like something like that for maemo512:58
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Sho_Mece: I develop it, actually :-)12:59
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villemvsomeone needs to make a google buzz client too13:01
villemvwhen the apis are out13:01
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MeceSho_ sweet :)13:01
unnamed_heroFree love?13:01
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Mecegah these tunnels are confusing. focusing on my phone too much, so I keep taking wrong turns..13:02
* Mece is walking around under Hel13:03
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MeceSho_, is yakuak qt?13:07
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crashanddieGuys, I have bad news13:09
crashanddieThe world is coming to and end13:09
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Mececrashanddie, again?13:10
crashanddieI have been called "the voice of reason"13:10
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crashanddiewhich can only mean very bad things are about to happen13:10
Mececrashanddie, source plz?13:10
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Meceor [citation needed]13:11
Sho_Mece: Yes, Yakuake is a KDE application13:11
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MeceSho_, you think its something that could13:15
Mecebe ported, or would it be better to start from scratch?13:16
MeceSho_, I've only seen it demonstrated, so I don't really know that much about it.13:17
Sho_Mece: In principle it would work fine. Open questions would be how Maemo's window manager would cope with it, or whether the window animation method needs adjustments for that platform. Things like the config dialog would also need some UI adjustments for Maemo, of course.13:17
sejohow do you get python-qt on the scratchbox? It's not in the freemantle13:20
* timeless_mbp sighs13:23
timeless_mbpnokia marketing for the win13:23
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timeless_mbpthey announced a new product in 201013:23
asj_damn a pack of smokes in AU is $1513:23
timeless_mbpand with it they created a contest that ended in 200813:23
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sejotimeless_mbp: lol13:23
timeless_mbpsejo: challenge. see if you can find that contest13:24
Khertan <--- semms down13:24
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satmdnack. working here.13:27
MeceSho_, I guess it should be a stripped down version. I imagine it usingone of those (qt version of) gtk.dialog as a container or something.13:27
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achipatimeless_mbp: I know one where you could get the results in december 2009 for the competition you can apply to from february 2010, does that count ?13:28
Sho_Mece: Possibly13:29
timeless_mbpachipa: possibly13:29
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Khertan <-- down too13:30
Khertansatmd: ...13:30
Khertansatmd: not for me13:30
Khertanand at home too13:30
achipaKhertan: works for me, too13:30
Khertanso .... fucking country cache akaima system13:30
achipatimeless_mbp: ah, they corrected it... *almost* :) (ctrl-f for 2009)13:31
Khertanthx for verifying13:31
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crashanddielooks up to me13:32
* crashanddie waves @ keras 13:32
* crashanddie waves @ Khertan 13:32
crashanddieKhertan: fait chier ton pseudo a la con, quelle idee d'aller mettre un H la dedans. Tout ca pour tricher au scrabble :P13:33
sejotimeless_mbp: can't even find the press release *grin*13:33
crashanddieKhertan: a ce propos, on a une nana dans le chan... parisienne apparemment13:34
Khertantu sais comment je l'ai trouvé ? une jetté de main sur clavier ... déplacer quelques lettre ... pour avoir 0 résultat dans google13:34
crashanddiebha je crois que c'est loupe13:35
crashanddiet'en as 44k13:35
Khertanbah maintenant oui13:35
Khertanc'etait il y a 4 ou 5 ans13:35
Khertanbon ... ma femme m'appelle pour manger13:35
Khertan@ tout a l'heure13:35
MeceSho_, is this yakuake for maemo something you'd be interested in helping out with13:36
crashanddieKhertan: bon app13:36
crashanddieKhertan: bonne idee aussi, vait aller me trouver un truc a manger, peluche peluche!13:36
crashanddieShrik3: ?13:37
Shrik3everything got all french all of a sudden13:38
Shrik3and I exhausted my whole vocabulary13:38
* timeless_mbp broke window manager13:38
jiajiawhat language is that13:39
jiajiasomething new in n90013:39
Mecetimeless_mbp, which one?13:39
timeless_mbpos x13:39
timeless_mbpor rather Expose13:39
jiajiaanything really raelly advanced feature13:39
Mecetimeless_mbp, right, mbp. Nice :)13:39
timeless_mbpit thinks i want to work in expose mode13:39
crashanddietimeless_mbp: press shift and reduce a screen to dock13:40
crashanddietimeless_mbp: or press shift and launch dashboard13:40
jiajiaalright that looks cool13:40
jiajiawhat is the latest version for maemo13:40
timeless_mbpstill broken13:41
jiajiaseriously the one i have right now seem not the best13:41
Sho_Mece: Sure, sadly I can't afford an N900 however so my ability to test it is limited13:41
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jiajiaanyone see my talking13:43
jiajiai am asking if there is a new version for maemo13:43
MeceSho_, cool :) we'll talk about it later. I'm at finnish metal expo today, so I don't have time to compile and such today.13:43
an0therb0x1how do i configure navit for the n900 ?13:43
crashanddiejiajia: and we don't have to respond ;) You could just search13:44
achipajiajia: 3.2010.02-813:44
jiajiacause the one i have is alwayas like crash13:44
jiajiashut down automatically13:44
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Sho_Mece: You'll have to get ahold of some of the dependencies first anyhow (namely kdelibs and the konsole kpart)13:45
MeceSho_, heh yeah, I didn't think porting it was something that would get done while I'm here at mcdonalds :)13:47
MeceI'm off. toodles.13:47
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Sho_Mece: oh I've written fine code and McD before ;)13:48
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lcukmornin hrw14:05
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hrwnokia decided - calendar app will remain closed for maemo5 and meego14:14
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zaheermhrw, same calendar backend to be used in meego?14:16
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hrwzaheerm: no idea14:17
hrwzaheerm: meego so far is black hole when it comes to software14:17
bvaso meeGo != completly open14:19
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Pavlovtime to create the open fork, and not very good car sounding, youGo14:19
hrwbva: this is nokia - you thought that there will be no closed apps?14:19
bvahrw: maybe I was thinking wishfully14:20
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bvaI mean; whats the advantage of keeping it closed?14:21
bvaThan I might as well buy Android14:21
vesathe platform is open, not all the applications are open?14:22
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Corsachrw: that's a start :)14:22
GeneralAntillesbva, Android is more locked down as a platform.14:22
X-FadeYes. Google apps aren't open on android either.14:22
olyi have to say i really like the current interface so hope they dont change to much14:23
X-FadeThe base will be open, but what that base consists of is unknown atm.14:23
hrwCorsac: thats moblin source dump14:23
bvaX-Fade: In my opinion calendar = base14:23
Corsachrw: yes14:24
glassbva: remember to buy a google certified android device to access appstore14:24
hrwX-Fade: console-image probably + base x1114:24
Corsachrw: which will be Meego base system14:24
X-Fadehrw: And qt ;)14:24
GeneralAntillesbva, not a generally widely accepted definition.14:25
hrwCorsac: sure, but this does not have any maemo components yet14:25
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Corsachrw: no but we can assume the “meego-common” parts will be opened (I do). But that does not mean the “vendor parts” will be as opened14:26
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hrwI think that we need to wait 2-3 months to check how it will go. for now it is unclear what will be done and how.14:27
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hrwas for now one thing was done: nokia + intel discussed/announced/presented one server with website/mailinglist. nothing more14:28
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* w00t_ cries over the mailing list going around in yet another circle14:32
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hrwso I am waiting for code, test images (for beagleboard or n900 or qemu), howtos etc14:33
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StskeepsThe Mer project - just a bunch of redshirts?,
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Corsacnice shirts :)14:37
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, s/get away with/get away from/14:39
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, "get away with" means the opposite of what you intend. ;)14:40
GeneralAntillesAlso: s/done with separating/done by separating/14:41
hrwStskeeps: nice post14:41
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, hell, just re-read the damn thing. :D14:41
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lcukStskeeps, these shirts - tracy keeps telling me they are like stag-do shirts14:43
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Stskeepslcuk: hehe14:46
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Shrik3so the Mer project people will start porting Meego for 770 & N8x0?14:51
StskeepsN900 if not happening officially, N8x0 if it is feasible.14:52
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Stskeeps770 you have to be demented to start with14:52
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hrw770 is device which should not be released14:53
X-FadeI disagree. It worked nicely for me at the time.14:54
GeneralAntilleshrw, oh, hush.14:54
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, very much agreed.14:54
GeneralAntillesI carried it with me everywhere until I got my N800.14:54
GeneralAntillesIt's not a perfect device, no, but it worked great at the time.14:54
glass770 had brilliant browsing for it's time14:55
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glassand worked out of the box with bluetooth nokia phones to get online with no fuss. much less fuss than with a zaurus and bt-sd card anyways14:55
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* Arif yawns14:56
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Myrttiworked better to get online than linux in general at the time of the release of it14:57
GeneralAntillesToo bad ICD doesn't have the lead it used to.14:57
StskeepsICD is still superior in some areas14:57
Myrttinetwork-manager was in Ubuntu with 6.0614:57
Arifpeople actually bought 770s? :P14:58
GeneralAntillesArif, 50,000 of them.14:58
GeneralAntillesand it was a damn fine piece of equipment at the time.14:58
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I wonder if Nokia will end up switching to conman.14:59
MyrttiI got mine for free from my old workplace when I left late 2007, I had used it for about a year before that14:59
* GeneralAntilles pre-ordered.14:59
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: in meego, probably14:59
hrwArif: I got mine from Nokia when n800 was released. 3 months later it was EOLed14:59
ArifI was actually interested in the tablets15:00
Arifbut they had no GSM15:00
Arifand it was too expensive for a toy :P15:00
GeneralAntillesArif, wasn't a toy.15:01
* aquatix still loves his n81015:02
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MyrttiI use my N800 daily15:02
Myrttiwonderful for surfing in bed and bath15:02
aquatixbath hm?15:02
pillar_and beyond :)15:03
aquatixi actually quite like the new mobile firefox btw15:03
Arifyou take your tablet to your bath?15:03
aquatixas Tear kinda died15:03
rzrArif: the question would be , when does he leave his tablet ?15:03
ArifNokia added a new app to Ovi store \o/15:04
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rangeIt's the small things ...15:04
pillar_Arif: which one?15:04
rzrMyrtti: ever tried surfing under the shower ? :)15:04
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aquatixrzr: i think Myrtti takes her tablet everywhere :)15:04
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Myrttirzr: no15:04
Myrttiaquatix: pretty much15:05
pillar_Arif: oh ok, I noticed this panorama photo app as well15:05
KhertanHow it s possible that someone got this error :15:05
Khertan The package fails to install with error:  'Unable to create /opt/vectormine/data/block.ttf': No such file or directory15:05
aquatixi used to, too15:05
sejowhat repo's should I enable in my sdk?15:05
Arifthat one was there for a while15:05
ArifI installed it but haven't tried it out yet15:05
SpeedEvilArif: I must say that windows 7 was unexpected.15:05
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ArifSpeedEvil, o.o?15:05
GeneralAntillesWhy in the world is Fennec on the Ovi Store?15:05
KhertanGeneralAntilles: because Ovi Sucks15:06
Arifso more than 4 people will use it?15:06
aquatixKhertan: maybe the dir isn't created yet?15:06
Khertanaquatix it should be created15:06
MyrttiGeneralAntilles: for the lulz?15:06
Khertanby apt15:06
Khertanor dpkg15:06
GeneralAntillesArif, Extras ships enabled out of the box. :)15:06
ArifFirefox is in extras?15:06
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, I guess, but I'm missing the joke, I think.15:06
GeneralAntillesWait, used to be.15:06
GeneralAntillesBut their build system is still fail.15:06
Ariffurryfox has its own repo I thought15:07
GeneralAntillesIt does, sadly.15:07
GeneralAntillesWeird that they'd rather go Ovi than Extras.15:07
ArifOvi looked so empty :P15:07
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Their packaging is broken beyond repair.15:07
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: And they didn't want to invest any time in fixing it, so they dropped their binary crap over at Ovi.15:08
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achipaso it IS the 'if I can't pass in Extras I go to Ovi' :D15:08
ArifI installed Candle today15:09
Corsacis the bugtracker field required for promoting to testing?15:09
Arifand didn't get what I was supposed to do with it ;(15:09
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X-FadeCorsac: yes.15:09
achipaCorsac: yes15:09
Corsacok, thanks15:09
X-FadeCorsac: Although it can be: mailto: too.15:09
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, love it.15:09
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, another demonstration of Ovi's awesome QA.15:10
* GeneralAntilles can't wait until applications start getting submitted in earnest.15:10
ArifOvi has QA?15:10
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achipaArif: no(t yet)15:10
X-Fade30 pages of PDF it seems.15:10
ArifI downloaded those videos and they didn't play :P15:10
hrwnokia has qa?15:10
Arifthey played on the PC though xD15:11
GeneralAntillesArif, the €50 fee?15:11
achipaX-Fade: seems 'voluntary', as in there are packages that are in Ovi but clearly fail their own guidelines -> not enforced15:11
Ariflets gather €50 and submit a fart app15:12
X-Fadeachipa: Commercial parties can have different deals it seems :)15:12
GeneralAntilles"Hey, man, can't get past those lameoids over at We can help you out for a price. . . ."15:12
GeneralAntillesI'm in favor of burning down Nokia's Ovi division.15:12
GeneralAntillesThey seem to be really good at dragging the rest of the company down.15:12
lcukwhy doesnt adopt the same policy ;)15:12
lcukwould give X-Fade some extra pennies :D15:13
GAN900Which is saying something. . . .15:13
GAN900lcuk, who says we haven't? :P15:13
Arifask Apple to open a Maemo category :p15:13
X-Fadelcuk: You just aren't sharing in the money ;)15:13
achipaX-Fade: I'm not sure if it's commercial... AFAIK Ovi store still does not allow the submission of ANY Maemo content. So whoever is in there went through other channels (as in talk/deal with honchos)15:14
KhertanHello ...15:14
X-Fadeachipa: Hehe, big companies are different from little developers.15:14
GAN900Anybody poked at the PR1.1.1 apt yet?15:14
KhertanX-Fade: Can i ask you to remove a package (in fact several) from extras-testing ?15:14
glasslittle developers can acts as a big company though15:15
KhertanX-Fade: all vectormine pacakge15:15
* achipa nods15:15
X-FadeKhertan: Just vote them down.15:15
sejois there a maemo channel for python?15:15
X-FadeKhertan: When maintainer votes down it will be removed.15:15
KhertanX-Fade: yeah ... ok15:15
KhertanX-Fade: didn't know15:15
lizardosejo: #pymaemo15:15
KhertanX-Fade: great thing ... thx15:15
Arifthe "Flashlight" app broke in 2010 02 08 :(15:16
lizardosejo: or #pyside for PySide stuff15:16
lizardosejo: but discussing python here is fine too :)15:16
X-FadeKhertan: I figured that if the maintainer doesn't believe in the package version, it should be removed ;)15:16
achipaArif: works for me15:16
Arifwhat version are you using?15:16
achipaArif: 0.3-215:17
CorsacDo you want to continue [Y/n]? ^M15:17
* Corsac *hates* scratchbox15:17
Arifthe flashlight button doesn't appear anymore when I open the camera slider15:17
KhertanX-Fade: great idea15:17
slonopotamusso. history with broken usb connector continues. 1. nokia care says it doesn't have info to tell whether it is a warranty case. 2. repair service said it is unlikely to be waranty case, though agreed to take it and gave estimation of 1 week (when it either says it's non-warranty or fixes it)15:17
Stskeepsslonopotamus: keep in mind the information may not have spread yet15:18
SpeedEvilArif: did you reboot?15:19
ArifI tried removing, the rebooting, and then reinstalling it15:19
slonopotamusStskeeps, repair service explicitely told me they don't have bulletin on this problem (and yep, they searched in their db)15:19
RichiHcan the n900 save raw GPS data with photos for later location processing?15:19
SpeedEvilRichiH: no15:19
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SpeedEvilRichiH: at least not in the sense of 'geotate'15:20
nidOslonopotamus, you calling them or going into a store?15:20
RichiHis anyone working on it? :)15:20
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SpeedEvilRichiH: it's impossible.15:20
Stskeepsslonopotamus: contribute to the thread then15:20
SpeedEvilRichiH: the required hardware is not there.15:20
RichiHSpeedEvil: my main concern is that i do not want wait for a fix when shooting a pic15:20
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SpeedEvilRichiH: having said that - if you have had a gps fix in the past little while - it's instant.15:20
slonopotamusnidO, called nokia care by phone, gone to repair service by foot :)15:20
RichiHSpeedEvil: it has a camera and a gps receiver -- what would be missing?15:20
nidOtbh, go back to the repair service and take a printout of nokia's own announcement saying it's a warranty issue, and tell them to get the info they need directly while you wait15:21
RichiHunless the gps unit is so walled-off that you can not get at the raw data15:21
w00t_slonopotamus: go postal15:21
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SpeedEvilRichiH: the 'postprocess later' functionality in hardware requires the ability to record the raw incoming waveform.15:21
w00t_always helps15:21
SpeedEvilRichiH: Almost no GPSs do this.15:21
slonopotamusnidO, i didn't see it in russian :/15:21
SpeedEvilRichiH: and it's also patented.15:21
nidOany of em speak english at the repair point?15:22
slonopotamusnidO, w/e, they took my n900 annd said they'll be contactinng nokia to decide what to do.15:22
slonopotamusnidO, unlikely.15:22
SpeedEvilRichiH: also - you can take picture - and then it will acquire the geotags15:23
GAN900Nokia Care . . . doesn't15:23
slonopotamusGAN900, yeah, i thought smth like that :)15:24
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RichiHSpeedEvil: nothing of which is as good as just saving the raw dump :p15:27
RichiHbut thanks nonetheless :)15:27
slonopotamusanyone has a link to nokia announce on usb problem? can't google it15:27
Stskeepsslonopotamus: find it on the thread15:28
Stskeepsthere's a link to the forums15:28
SpeedEvilRichiH: in some ways, yes. It might in principle be possible with the hardware - but there are no docs - and the bit that talks to the GPS is in the modem. So...15:28
slonopotamusStskeeps, meh, there are 63 pages.15:28
Stskeepsslonopotamus: in the end of it15:28
wolf^GeneralAntilles, "Hey, man, can't get past those lameoids over at We can help you out for a price. . . ."15:28
SpeedEvilRichiH: as a datapoint - I last used the GPS yesterday. I just took a pic - with network positioning enabled - indoors - and got a satellite position in under 30s.15:29
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wolf^GeneralAntilles, I guess it's better to pay for the ability to expose your application than to wait for "open" "community" response15:29
GeneralAntilleswolf^, um?15:29
wolf^GeneralAntilles, I'm waiting for 2 months for extras upload access and frankly, I don't give a damn anymore15:29
GeneralAntilleswolf^, are you an SIO2 apologist?15:29
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GeneralAntilleswolf^, er?15:29
GeneralAntillesand you haven't contacted anybody to follow up?15:29
wolf^I have15:30
GeneralAntillesX-Fade's the person to talk to15:30
GeneralAntilleshave you talked to X-Fade?15:30
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nidOslonopotamus - post 12 -
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wolf^GeneralAntilles, I have sent mails15:30
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wolf^GeneralAntilles, if I have to poke anybody on IRC, well, it only proves my point15:31
slonopotamusnidO, thanks15:31
GeneralAntilleswolf^, I realize it's frustrating, but most requests are processed within 48 hours on weekdays.15:31
gilohi folks15:31
GeneralAntillesUsually less15:31
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wolf^GeneralAntilles, I've sent the first mail in december15:32
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: A mail to -developers will do.15:32
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RichiHSpeedEvil: i despise a-gps and do not want to rely on network-assisted gps15:33
slonopotamusnidO, lol. under certain conditions.15:33
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nidOwell yeah, theyre obviously going to quantify it, that first post was only the initial comment though, its post 12 that confirms detatched usb ports are warranty issues15:34
nidOpresumably unless there're obvious signs of significant abuse15:34
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woglindeinstalling ubuntu on an viliv ex7015:34
SpeedEvilRichiH: it takes - without network positioning enabled - only a few seconds to lock - if you've used it in the last few hours.15:35
SpeedEvilRichiH: also - tehre are various sorts of network assist.15:35
RichiHor, to be more exact, i really like the initial a-gps -- towers set up across europe that improve accuracy15:35
slonopotamusnidO, also, 'very limited number'. they fixed in in newer devices?15:35
RichiHbut the 'modern' a-gps fails as soon as you leave your home country15:35
SpeedEvilthere is the phone-network-assist - and then there is asking for help15:35
nidOno idea, but going by t.m.o there arent really a whole lot of people reporting it15:36
SpeedEvilRichiH: agps is a term that covers _LOTS_ of shit15:36
RichiHSpeedEvil: my use case is to not use gps for a few weeks and then snap the photo15:36
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RichiHSpeedEvil: i know15:36
SpeedEvilRichiH: right - that's not gonna work.15:36
RichiHmost of which is, literally, shit :p15:36
RichiHSpeedEvil: my point exactly15:36
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SpeedEvilRichiH: if you get a GPS signal when charging - that would be a trivial fix15:36
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RichiHSpeedEvil: oh, can the n900 switch on gps while charging automagically?15:39
crashanddieoh for fuck's sake someone TELL BENNY1967 TO FUCKING PISS THE HELL OFF15:39
RichiH14:40:22 [freenode] -!- There is no such nick BENNY196715:40
slonopotamusnidO, oh, yep, just 11% in that post15:40
RichiHalso, temper ;)15:40
crashanddieRichiH: nha, on tmo15:40
nidOslonopotamus - 11%?15:40
pillar_is talk real slow for all? aren't these servers suppose to be fast now?15:40
SpeedEvilRichiH: not by default15:40
RichiHthat would be
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RichiHSpeedEvil: if there is a way that does not impact stability and battery life, i am fine with that15:41
slonopotamusnidO, 11.97% :P poll in t.m.o. post15:41
X-Fadewolf^: But tell me. What is the problem you are experiencing?15:41
pillar_RichiH: yep15:41
nidOslonopotamus - which means the actual % is way lower most likely, as the vast majority of people without problems will never see/read/vote in that post15:41
nidOwhereas probably 100% of people who do have a problem and use tmo ever will be voting15:41
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nidOhm, anyone have any experience of generating evopedia wiki dumps?15:44
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SpeedEvilRichiH: as a 0th cut - start osm2go when when battery is charging. I can't see a script easily hackable15:45
GeneralAntillesI always get the feeling that people who "hate" mailing lists are doing it wrong.15:48
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* cehteh hates web-forums15:49
Corsachhmh, no linux-libc-dev in sdk?15:49
* SpeedEvil hates some web forums for content - and others for style. And all of them for having only one client and no backup.15:49
cehtehshould be installed by default ..15:50
cehtehhaving only one not perfectly working client15:50
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Arifhow do you zoom in and out in VNC viewer :o15:51
Arifand right click :blush:15:52
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lcukArif, only vnc into a mac ;)15:52
ArifMacs don't need zooming ? :P15:52
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cehtehvnc cant zoom iirc .. tightvnc can be started with some fixed scaling factor thats all15:53
lcukArif, then put an enhancement request in for swirly zoom :D aSIMULAtor might know who to request15:53
gilowhat abount rsap?15:53
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cehtehwhile, with a compositing window manager zooming should be (relative easy) possible .. but well15:54
slonopotamusso. did anyone get usb connector fixed?15:55
slonopotamus(yep, i'm reading through 63 pages of relevant post)15:55
Arifso no right click? :p15:55
Arifit's kinda hard clicking the tray icons even with the stylus ={15:55
X-FadeArif: tap and hold?15:56
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* Arif will try15:57
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* crashanddie cries
fralsloving the badoo mail to maemo-dev ml15:58
lcukwhy does tmo show single posts centred15:59
lcukit looks like badly written poetry15:59
w00t_lcuk: to make you ask that question15:59
* Arif blinks15:59
Arifyou can use Meego on desktops now?15:59
crashanddieArif: he's talking about moblin16:00
Arifah ok16:00
ArifI hadn't heard of moblin untill it was merged with maemo :$16:01
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Khertands;jfsldfj sldkf sùd fksdf! s  dS sdF lkdsjf !! ! FUCK ! i ve scratched /usr/bin on my n90016:02
Khertanstupid packaging tool !16:02
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Ariflol, what?16:02
threshnow now16:02
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crashanddieRichiH: here, parse this: "Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to go want to do look more like?"16:02
Arifstop touching stuff you're not supposed to!16:02
KhertanArif: gniagniagnia ... there is a bug in pypackage16:03
Khertanas the maintainer ... maybe i should fix it :)16:03
Khertanand also try before :)16:03
Arifpff companies don't fix their bugs16:03
Arifso why should you!16:03
Khertani blame pypackager ... and his stupid developpers !16:04
pillar_Arif: ctrl-tap?16:04
danielwilmsfor everybody in and around helsinki:
KhertanArif: ah yes ... now that i ve my own companiy i can now stop fixing bugs16:04
KhertanArif: good advice !16:04
RichiHcrashanddie: parse error, please check your syntax :) -- next!16:04
ArifKhertan, blame it on the user :D16:05
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Arifpillar_, the ctrl on the keyboard or the buttons at the bottom?16:05
Khertanthe user is me for the moment16:05
* slonopotamus wonders what is average n900 usb connector lifetime16:05
lcukslonopotamus, mine have never broken16:05
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lcukand im shoving it in and out all the time16:06
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crashanddieslonopotamus: same here16:06
ArifI keep poking in the usb cable when I hear a song I want on my phone16:06
Khertanslonopotamus: same here ... no care16:06
ArifI'm afraid the battery'll die before the USB port :P16:06
lcukthe only concern ive ever had with a nokia device was that my n810 touchscreen started to fade after extensive over abuse16:07
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w00t_I've always been careful with my precious16:07
Khertandid you use screen protector on your n900 ?16:07
lcukhey RST38h16:07
ArifI miss my N91's headphone quality :P16:07
RST38hheya lcuk, hrw, khertan16:07
w00t_I polish it every day, and it has a case and a screen protector <316:07
lcukKhertan, not got one on any of  my devices16:07
* thresh waves16:07
thresh52 minutes to go.. eh.16:08
Khertani'm careful with the ddp one ... not the loaned one :)16:08
lcukRST38h, did you see the post about xchat plugin thing from cehteh16:08
ArifKhertan, my N900 dangles around my neck when I'm outside :P16:08
w00t_Khertan: <-- full retail price :P16:08
RST38hwil integrate on the next release16:08
RST38hArif: isn't it a bit heavy for that?16:08
Arifwith no screen protector :D16:08
Khertanno case, no screen protector, directly in the jean's pocket16:09
lcukdo you store other stuff in that pocket tho16:09
RST38hthresh: and then... ?16:09
Khertan(but i didn't do that with the ddp n900)16:09
lcukor is it your n900 pocket16:09
Khertanlcuk: nope only the n900 ... :)16:09
lcukRST38h, great!16:09
ArifI found out I can change the songs in media player with left/right arrow16:09
Khertani m not fool enought to put also my keys :16:09
Arifso I don't have to poke at the screen randomly to change music :D16:09
lcukKhertan, then you have a special case16:09
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lcukit just happens to double as clothing16:10
RST38hthresh: snowstorm - CHECK; traffic jam - CHECK; ...16:10
olyI have just got my n900 recently been considering enabling the developers repo any thoughts ?16:10
* SpeedEvil wonders what the market would be for a snug-right-angle USB connector16:10
olymy main concern is screwing up my phone16:10
lcukoly, if you are a developer yeah16:10
threshRST38h: i'm outside of Moscow anyway16:10
crashanddieoly: define "developers repo"16:10
RST38holy: How valiant!16:10
crashanddieoly: if you're talking about Maemo-devel, no, don't16:10
olyis it easy to reinstall a phone ?16:10
threshRST38h: and will probably move in Moscow center, not suburbs16:10
crashanddieoly: maemo testing, maybe, if you feel like giving feedback to developers16:11
RST38hthresh: traffic jam then16:11
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olyyeah i have testing16:11
lcukoly, yeah, you can reflash anytime, take regular backups of your settings and stuff16:11
lcukand you can be back where you were in no time :P16:11
olyi have been using linux for years on desktops and servers16:11
threshRST38h: yaprobki say it's pretty much OK to move from Korolev16:11
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Khertanok i ve dput vectormine_1.0.3-1 to the extras-devel repository ... someone can try to install it in ten minutes ...16:11
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Khertanto say me if it s works ?16:11
lcukthen as with any new apps you install watch for how they sit with your current running system16:11
olyi know i can restore a desktop but no idea where to start if the phone goes wrong16:11
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Khertanas it s works on my two device16:12
ArifKhertan, what is it ;o16:12
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olyI love playing with cutting edge and am considering porting a daap server16:12
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* Arif installs16:13
olyif i can reflash it should be fine, i just want to know i cant brick / lock myself out of the phone completely16:13
Khertanarg wrong second link16:13
olyas at the end of the day i do need a working phone16:14
matthew-ok i deleted a number and messages from this number by mistake16:14
KhertanArif :
CorsacKhertan: are extras-devel buildds working?16:14
matthew-any chance i can 'find' it somewhere?16:14
Arif1 euro eh16:14
KhertanArif: wait a bit ... it s ll be available in extras devel in ten minutes16:14
KhertanArif: yep :)16:14
Khertanif i gain enough i ll make other game16:14
matthew-there should be some traces of it! :D16:14
ArifI have no paypal16:14
Khertanelse ... come back to my geek stuff16:14
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lcukmatthew-, you find them then - its not something ive seen people ask for before16:15
KhertanArif: paypal isn't mandatory ... it s also work with bluecard :)16:15
lcukif oyu do find a way, document it16:15
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ArifI only have a bank card ;P16:15
matthew-lcuk: well if i would be able to do it, i wouldn't ask now, would I ?16:15
KhertanArif: as ovistore isn't open yet ... this is the only method i ve16:15
lcukhence "if you do find a way"16:16
KhertanArif: works with bank card too16:16
Khertanbut try it before16:16
lcuk-tyops ofc16:16
VDVsxaahha, the firefox animation/video is very cool ->
Arifthen I'll buy it16:16
lcuk-typos ofc16:16
Arifwhen it comes out16:16
Khertancurrently still in testing16:16
Khertanthe games is working16:16
Khertanthe packaging not :)16:16
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Khertanthe pacakaging tool less :)16:16
ArifI was going to buy the sio2interactive games16:16
Arifbut they were so boring :P16:16
Khertanthere is so many bug in pypackage16:17
Khertanthere is so many bug in pypackager16:17
KhertanArif: really ?16:17
Khertani'm not someone that believe beautifull graphism is required to made a good game16:17
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pillar_danielwilms: any idea how long the event will last?16:17
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KhertanN900evil: for example !16:18
* Arif doesn't care about graphics either16:18
ArifI'd like monkey ball ported though :P16:18
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olymay be possible to port neverball16:18
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danielwilmspillar_: just the saturday, until the late evening16:19
olywhich is very similar to monkey ball16:19
pillar_danielwilms: ok, how late though, thinking if it fits to my schedule16:19
* Khertan is thinking of making some Vectrex game port :)16:19
VDVsxdanielwilms, ahh, shame, I really enjoy these kind of contests :D16:20
danielwilmspillar_ plan until around 6 or 7 in the evening16:21
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danielwilmsVDVsx looking forward to seeing the results :)16:21
lcukdanielwilms, if the competition is is 48hours but the event is 1 day16:21
lcukhow do you contro lit16:21
pillar_danielwilms: ok16:21
pillar_yeah when is the coding supposed to achieved16:22
lcuktime dilation16:22
danielwilmslcuk you don't know what to code until Thursday16:22
lcuko_O cool16:22
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danielwilmsat 17:0016:22
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lcukdoes it have to be qt? :D16:23
VDVsxdanielwilms, will you give some talk about maemo there ?16:23
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danielwilmslcuk yep16:23
* lcuk reads more lol16:23
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Stskeepswhat's event now? :P16:23
lcukahh danielwilms something else just remembered16:23
danielwilmsVDVsx we will be there and demo things according to more Q&A thing16:24
Khertanyouhou ... PyPackager 3.0.9-1 uploadted to autobuilder16:24
Khertanfix many bugs16:24
StskeepsVDVsx: ah16:24
StskeepsVDVsx: no way i'm going to helsinki when there's still snow ;)16:24
pillar_danielwilms: workshops only showing iphone and android - are there maemo related stuff other than the competition?16:24
pillar_Stskeeps: then you will have to wait for a while :) there's plenty right now16:25
danielwilmspillar_ I've sent it an hour ago to the guy...the discription will be there soon16:25
pillar_danielwilms: okay, cool16:25
pillar_danielwilms: now it's showing nokia16:26
ArifNokia killed the English language!16:26 we speak :D16:26
VDVsxdanielwilms, humm, ok, if is more student targeted could be good to advertise maemo@GSoC there, dunno but probably the GSoC stipend is very low for finns students :D16:26
Myrttino, I think it was Nokia and the Finnish national telecom company at the moment of inventing sms16:26
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VDVsxStskeeps, yeah, you don't have snow in .pl :D16:26
Khertanlol a competition for things running on n90016:26
Khertanwhich talk only of QT16:26
Khertan... hum16:26
Khertanwhat to say ...16:27
lcukdanielwilms, so this is opened for people near helsinki, or can they be flown in16:27
danielwilmsVDVsx good idea16:27
Arifmaybe someone will port an N64 emulator :P16:27
pekujaarh, why does OMWeather think I'm in Oulu?16:27
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danielwilmslcuk haha...whoever is present at the event :)16:27
lcukyeah but how would enthusiastic people from uk etc get there :P16:28
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danielwilmslcuk this the enthusiastic people from the UK have to figure out :)16:29
* Khertan didn't understand how developpers can found QT Better16:29
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ArifQt=more platforms=more money16:30
Arifthink of Java ;P16:30
ham5boooo qt16:30
KhertanQt=more platforms <--- false16:30
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Khertanok true now with symbian (but it s not a plateform for me)16:31
lcuklol danielwilms thats more of a puzzle16:31
danielwilmsKhertan what is your choice then?16:31
Khertandanielwilms: currently pygtk16:31
sp3000pekuja: well it is kind of in the middle isn't it? don't be so capital-area-centric :P16:31
Khertanand i didn't see any interest on qt ...16:31
Arifyou could sell your app to so many million symbian users!16:32
Khertanexcept the move from gtk to qt of maemo/meego plateform16:32
danielwilmsKhertan hehe...I love python...but since I've started with qt...what to say...never been faster and easier to implement things16:32
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Khertanreally ... ?16:32
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Khertani found s it s slower to do anythings usefull with qt16:32
Khertanbut i surely lack from qt knowledge16:33
olyare they going to keep gtk support ?16:33
Khertanthey say community supported ...16:33
Khertanso clearly no :)16:33
Khertansay / said16:33
Arifthey should do it the google way16:34
zaheermexcept moblin ui uses gtk/clutter16:34
Arifmake everything java! :P16:34
KhertanArif: oh my god no16:34
pekujasp3000: I'm mostly where-i-actually-live-centric16:34
olyi dont quite get that though clutter seems really powerful16:34
Khertanand google android things ... is not java16:34
olycan it be used with qt in the same way16:34
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olyor will it not be available16:35
danielwilmsKhertan give it a shot if you have a day for just works...and I really defended python everywhere's actually quite nice16:35
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satmdArif: either missing </sarkasm> or clearly ignoring that the java layer removes user's access to linux16:35
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Arifyeah it was sarcasm :(16:35
Khertandanielwilms: you mean using python with qt ... as when you said : "and I really defended python everywhere before" i doubt16:35
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w00t_satmd: i think your sarcasm detection is disabled today16:35
* satmd sysctls it to 116:36
* lcuk will also agree with qt improvements and streamlining things16:36
slonopotamusofficial info from local nnokia representative: broken n900 usb connector _is_ a warranty case.16:36
sp3000pekuja: there's some minor issues afaiui with country-level coarseness being used where it's less than appropriate, though I'm not sure which part to blame16:36
lizardodanielwilms: if you like Python and Qt .... why not use both :)16:36
olyI just hope that when it goes qt based it will still be able to run gtk/clutter apps16:36
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w00t_Khertan: I think you're the one I said I was willing to help with Qt, btw16:36
* satmd notes that upnp support does not work with openvpn tunnels16:36
w00t_(or one of the ones, rather)16:36
olyespecially so my gtk apps will run :p16:36
satmddon't ask me why I ever tried :p16:36
danielwilmsI had a biiig project on the n810 and use django...but try plain qt..,you have nothing to lose ;)16:37
pekujasp3000: ok16:37
lcukKhertan, are yo ustill developing on the go16:37
* slonopotamus hopes they'll do smth smarter than jjust solder it back16:37
w00t_anyway, gtk isn't going anywhere, Qt just means you end up being more of a first class citizen and immune to changes in platform16:37
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cehtehRST38h: i am adding few things later today, but dont hold back the current version is ok, just when you package not later today fetch the new source or ask me about the state16:37
ali1234i'm doing a project right now that uses django for the backend and PyQt4 for the front end16:37
tybolltugh fucking sounds issues on my 900 are worse than ever16:37
lcukif so, that may still e a blocker for you16:38
devsatmd: upnp ->
* slonopotamus curses n800 for double clicks16:38
Khertanw00t_: clear ... but i don't like it16:38
tybolltgod damn piece of shit this N900 :)16:38
satmd15:11:21 <@henk> /usr/include/bits/local_lim.h:39:26: error: linux/limits.h: No such file or directory16:38
Khertanand using something i don't like most of the time means change of plateform16:38
pillar_danielwilms: is it enough to tell about participation when the rules are posted online? is working on team of two gonna be accepted?16:38
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lcukw00t_, "immune to changes"16:38
lopzhi ;)16:38
w00t_Khertan: if you'd like to go over your concerns with me sometime in private to avoid creating unnecessary noise here, I'd be happy to listen16:38
w00t_Khertan: it's something I have a fair bit of interest in :)16:39
Khertanno no no ... i didn't want to make noise16:39
danielwilmspillar_: the list is just to know how much interest there is...16:39
w00t_lcuk: yes, qtmobility, etc, as opposed to dealing with platform-specific API16:39
Khertani just trying to convince me to use qt16:39
danielwilmsso if you can imagine to participate, sign up16:39
danielwilmspillar_: team of 2 is fine16:40
w00t_Khertan: you misunderstand - I mean I'd be happy to talk to you, hear what worries you, and offer my knowledge to try help you out16:40
pillar_danielwilms: ok thanks16:40
Khertanw00t_: oh thanks16:40
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w00t_Stskeeps: ping16:41
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w00t_good, you're here, /msg16:42
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Khertan <<< available in extras-devel16:45
Khertansomeone can say me if it works for him ?16:45
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threshthat's the package that ruins your /usr/bin ? kthx im out16:45
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Khertanthresh: i ve tested it before16:49
Khertanand not this wasn't this package16:49
mgedminanybody want to package bazaar for maemo?16:49
Khertanbut pypackager 3.0.916:49
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CorsacKhertan: hhmhm, how comes your package is already available while mine is not and I've uploaded more or less at the same time? ><16:55
KhertanArif: vectormine 1.0.3-1 is available in extras-devel16:56
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* Arif will try it out16:56
KhertanCorsac: you have uploaded to what ? when and where ?16:56
Khertanauto builder ?16:56
Khertanas vectormine was push to non-free16:56
Corsacha ok16:56
Khertanis a binary package16:56
Khertanbut pypackager is still waiting in the auto builder queue16:57
Corsacis the queue visible?16:57
X-FadeKhertan: No it isn't ;)16:57
Khertanof course16:57
Khertani see that the refresh wasn't ok in my browser16:57
X-FadeYours was built already.16:57
Khertan <<< better ui16:57
CorsacKhertan: that's the built list, not the build queue :)16:58
Khertanthe build queue is on the small box on the right :16:59
Khertanah nope sorry16:59
Khertanwrong link16:59
Khertan <<< here on the box on the right the build queue16:59
Corsacwhich are empty atm?17:00
X-FadeCorsac: Which package did you upload?17:00
Corsacpython-scapy and iproute17:00
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X-FadeCorsac: Scapy is waiting because the orig.tar.gz file is not there yet.17:02
Corsacha yes17:02
CorsacI didn't built with -sa17:02
Corsacthough it kind-of thought as it was the maemo2 one the autobuilder would have it?17:02
X-FadeCorsac: dir is cleaned every time.17:03
Corsacso I can upload an orig.tar.gz different each time?17:03
X-FadeCorsac: yes17:04
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Corsachmmh, but uploading the orig.tar.gz only won't work, I'm dumb, it won't be in the .changes file17:04
RST38hEU nuke boffins say that mysterious bits of uranium found last year in a Dutch scrapyard originated in the Nazi nuclear-weapons programme of the 1940s17:04
CorsacI need to rebuild with -sa17:05
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matthew-ok, how to get back my deleted SMSes17:24
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dazomatthew-:  do you got glogarchive? ;-)17:26
matthew-dazo: nope17:27
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matthew-well it's on debian17:28
matthew-there must be a way17:28
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crashanddiedamn those europeans for always booking meetings in their timezones17:33
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crashanddieJaffa: aye17:34
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crashanddietybollt: YARRR17:35
crashanddieanyway, I'm off to bed17:37
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tybolltcheers crash17:37
tybolltok everybody, my first thread on TMO17:37
matthew-crashanddie: those bloody americans always book meetings in their time zones17:37
tybolltjump over there and shout TROLL at me now!17:38
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Corsacok, putting a mail in XSBC-Bugtracker doesn't exactly work fine with package interface :)17:38
matthew-and australians are never there.17:38
crashanddieJaffa: I've taken a night off coding. I'll probably get the portal into a usable state tomorrow or something17:38
wolf^tybollt, "where do you come from"? :>17:38
crashanddieJaffa: GeneralAntilles had a few important feedback items he gave me yesterday17:38
matthew-oh, and maybe you know if it's possible to retreived deleted messages?17:39
matthew-frals: Or, actually you may know! :)17:39
crashanddiehint is in the name17:39
crashanddie"Deleted messages"17:39
matthew-crashanddie: Or, just the number they were sent to...17:39
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matthew-there must be some log...17:40
tybolltwolf^: that grey rock over there.17:40
matthew-or from delivery reports...17:40
crashanddiematthew-: no, there isn't as far as I'm aware17:40
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matthew-crashanddie: ok17:40
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pupnik_my media player still cant play new clips17:44
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cpscottianyone there uses the Desktop Command Execution widget?17:45
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Jaffacrashanddie: cool17:45
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V13cpscotti: me17:51
cpscottiV13: like it? using version 0.9 already?17:51
V13i've the latest from extras-testing. yes I like it, even thought it has couse some hangs. It seems to trigger a bug.17:51
V13I've this for a couple of days: 10212 user       560 D    sh -c uptime|cut -d" " -f4-|sed 's/\, *load.*//'17:52
cpscottiahh.. that one.. it hangs everything if you use the commands that lock right?17:52
V13I had to kill the desktop to make it respond17:52
V13lock ?17:53
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cpscottinot lock.. but the desktop become unresponsive if the command doesn't respond..17:53
cpscottiuntil the command times out or finishes17:53
V13and in that case it completely locks17:53
V13this command is in a bad state. seems like a kernel bug.17:53
cpscottithis one for the uptime I wasn't aware17:54
V13it's in "D" and can't be killed17:54
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cpscottiwell... the commands itself I just took from the "community"/topic on talk.maemo.org17:54
V13i've killed its parent (The home) to re-parent it to init in case hildon-home wasn't wait()ing for it, but no.. even with the init as parent it is stuck17:54
cpscottiyeah.. pretty bad!17:55
V13But that's not a problem of the app... it is most probably a kernel bug17:55
SpeedEvildbus question. dbus-monitor says '1266592952 signal sender=:1.277 -> dest=(null destination) serial=17 path=/com/nokia/location/las;; member=Method17:55
SpeedEvil1266592952    string "CWP" (ignore the timedstamp numbers)17:55
cpscottiI see..17:55
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SpeedEvilI can't send this with dbus-send - as the destination is null. is this a 'broadcast' dbus message?17:55
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cpscottiV13: if you have some time.. give it your evaluation at garage.. let's put it in extras ... loooots of people are using it already...17:56
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V13yes.. i like it too.. however, it cause some hangs, even though it is not its fault.17:56
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cpscottithe problem is linking the widget itself to *any* shell command.. then things get weird.. ehheahe17:58
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V13by linking you mean?18:00
cehteh... so finally18:00
cpscottinot "linking" just executing..18:00
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tybolltfuck damnit18:00
tybolltthe audio problems are known18:01
tybollt~curse nokia crappy korean factory18:01
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia crappy korean factory !18:01
V13(that was supposed to mean: lol)18:02
viukkisi don't think that would improve the quality of their work18:02
tybolltviukkis: :D18:02
V13but it would improve customer satisfaction.18:02
tybolltit would, it would imensely18:02
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cehtehlcuk: xchat plugin update18:04
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cehtehfew new features including dialog throttling18:05
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cpscottiV13: thanks for the evaluation!18:07
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V13thanks for the app :)18:09
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matthew-ok, where are the messages saved?18:18
matthew-i mean SMS / conversation messages18:18
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ptlI dunno18:20
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V13In: /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db18:24
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Khertan <-- doesn't have the right right content for bugtracker link18:26
Khertanit s ok in the package control file18:26
Khertanso should i put a bugs on b.m.o ?18:27
V13perhaps a link in the form: mailto:koko@lala would work18:28
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ptlwhat's vectormine? a vector drawing program?18:28
X-FadeKhertan: Takes an hour max to update.18:28
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V13Khertan: I mean: set mailto:koko@lala as the bugtracker in control file.18:29
V13it *may* work18:29
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* V13 needs (again) guidance with pyqt18:31
V13with maemo-pyqt to be correct18:31
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Khertanv13 > it s set to mailto:khertan@khertan.net18:32
Khertani ve try both :)18:32
V13oh :(18:32
KhertanX-Fade: ok18:32
Quark_does anyone have N900?18:33
pekujathat's a bit of a weird question on this channel, I'd say18:33
KhertanQuark_: yep18:33
pekujawe all have iPhones18:33
* mgedmin throws a stone at pekuja18:34
Quark_i heard that N900 have so many bugs right?18:34
Khertanstupid question 218:34
Quark_this bug can will be fixed soon or no?18:34
Khertannever 2 without 318:34
mgedminit has software, therefore it has bugs18:34
Khertanand the third18:34
Quark_cuz i want buy a mobile18:34
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Quark_im thinking about N900 or HTC HD18:34
* mgedmin thinks the N900 is awesome, but prefers an old Series 40 nokia for actual phone calls18:35
Quark_and sorry if this is the wrong place to write that :(18:35
V13I believe hero is a lot better than hd18:35
mgedminno experience with HTC HD18:35
* V13 trolled18:35
* SpeedEvil uses the n900 as only phone.18:35
mgedminHTC implies either Android or Windows, right?18:35
Khertanit use winmo ?18:35
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mgedminI saw a Windows mobile once18:35
Quark_it uses windows18:35
Khertanso n900 :)18:35
SpeedEvil(that said - I've not made a call on it since November)18:35
V13so you should first determine hero or hd and then n900 or htc18:35
mgedminran away screaming18:35
* SpeedEvil isn't big with the whole calls thing.18:35
cpscottimgedmin: lolll18:35
mgedminthe UI didn't work for me18:36
Quark_hard to choose a mobile nowaday :D18:36
mgedminI suppose18:36
Quark_sometimes i get intrested in N900 and sometimes no18:36
mgedminN900 is awesome for geeky purposes18:36
mgedminokay for phone calls18:36
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SpeedEvilQuark_: If you find a linux box in your pocket, which you can run arbitrary programs on - it's great.18:36
mgedminwell, okay is saying a bit much18:36
Khertanand the best for browsing18:36
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SpeedEvilIf you want an app-store with eleven million fart apps, go elsewhere.18:36
mgedmintouchscreen interaction for responding to phone calls doesn't work for me -- I want something physical18:37
mgedmina flip phone or a slide phone18:37
mgedminmy personal quirk18:37
* cpscotti can't understand doubt between n900 and the other phones.. it's the difference between a computer and a lot of game-boys18:37
Khertanmgedmin: return key on the keypad18:37
V13mgeadmin: this?
mgedminwith the n900 when I pulled it out of my pocket it autodetected rotation, started playing animations from portrait to landscape, then back18:37
mgedminmaking it even more difficult to find the "answer" button on the touchscreen18:38
* mgedmin hates the rotation animation18:38
Khertanyou can remove the rotation18:38
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mgedminthere's that transition-control app18:38
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Khertani ve remove it ... i found it annoying18:38
Khertango in pref on phone application18:38
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Khertanit s enough18:38
mgedminah, that one18:38
mgedminmaybe, I haven't noticed/remembered18:39
V13mgedmin: which gets us to the common problem of n900 and every other too-many-things-phone.... It needs a "phone" button to make it just a phone immediately. No rotations, no zoom-in/outs. Nothing.18:39
mgedminactually I swapped my real SIM card into my Nokia 6600 that one time when my N900's battery died in mid-call18:39
V13even better, make this a switch18:39
mgedminand never swapped it back18:39
KhertanV13: put a phone shortcut on desktop18:39
V13khertan yeah right... I've already18:39
mgedminI love and use my N900 too often for the battery to last through the day18:39
nidOits just as quick to use the n900 as a phone as any other phone....18:39
V13i need to unlock it, find the desktop, press the button, wait, handle rotation... crap...18:39
nidOpress the contacts button to find a contact, or just dial the number.18:39
mgedminthe N900 is a good camera, though18:39
nidOhow is any other phone quicker?18:39
mgedminslide the lens cover, hit click, close lens cover18:40
mgedminperfect UI18:40
SpeedEvilmgedmin: it's a mediochre camera.18:40
V13i need to be able to call when I'm driving. I don't want a full-desktop when driving18:40
SpeedEvilmgedmin: it is a convenient mediochre camera though.18:40
mgedmindownsides: not ideal picture quality, long delay (a couple of seconds)18:40
V13just a huge button: call18:40
mgedminthe praise was meant for the UI, I phrased it wrong initially18:40
V13or "answer"18:40
mgedminnice UI for uploading your photos to flickr/facebook18:40
KhertanV13 first remove the auto rotate from preferences18:40
nidOis the massive red answer button not massive enough?18:40
V13khertan: but i like auto-rotate all other time.18:40
Khertanyep ... just unactivate it for phone18:41
mgedminnidO, I can't hit it by feel without looking, so --> no18:41
V13that's why i'm saying for a "phone" button. to just become a minimal phone for a while18:41
nidOget a handsfree kit then18:41
SpeedEvilI want to be able to make the camera button do that18:41
SpeedEvilI never ever want to open the camera UI with the shutter closed18:41
KhertanSpeedEvil: it s possible18:41
* mgedmin also gave up on handsfree kits -- stupidly short battery life, inconvenient storage, atrocious UI18:41
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V13to call from the car i need: get phone, unlock it, handle it in landscape, switch to phone app, handle in moves... now it's landscape.18:42
Khertanif i remember there is an app for that18:42
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SpeedEvilKhertan: I mean - all the way press.18:42
mgedminV13, talking on the phone in a moving car -> bad idea18:42
nidOme, i just press the voice activation button on my steering wheel and say "call xxxx"18:42
nidOnice and easy.18:42
SpeedEvilKhertan: not only half-press18:42
mgedmin*especially* without a hands-free kit18:42
mgedminI believe it's illegal here18:42
V13mgeadmin: well.. I may be jammed in the city.18:42
V13and there are other cases.18:42
* mgedmin sighs, remembering the voice dialling on his old Ericsson18:43
mgedminnokia insists on an artificial voice for all 200 my contacts and then cannot distinguish between them18:43
V13since the phone function of ... well... a phone device (even n900) is a major thing of it's ability, then i want a button for that...18:43
mgedminit's a lottery which contact it will call18:43
* mgedmin speaks of his Series 40, not the N90018:43
V13why do i have a button (in fact two) for the camera and not for the phone?18:43
* mgedmin doesn't think the N900 even has voice dialling18:43
SpeedEvilmgedmin: doesn't18:43
mgedminin short, the N900 is an awesome handheld computer with voice chat support, but it's not a phone18:44
nidObecause the n900 is a computer first and a phone second, simple. maybe an x6 woulda been more up your street? :\18:44
V13mgedmin: I'm aware of that :)18:44
V13mgedmin: but I'd still like a phone button :)18:44
zaheermnexus one sucks as a phone too18:44
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V13nid0 no .. i like n900.. i won't change it for all other phones..18:45
V13but i still wont the button :)18:45
mgedminsmartphones aren't smart nor phones...18:45
zaheermso do most touch screen only phones18:45
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crashanddieV13: wouldn't change it for any other phone18:45
zaheermbest "phones" have a keypad18:45
jaskahell, my old 6250 had voice dial18:45
Quark_anyone have HTC HD?18:45
crashanddiewould be the correct grammar18:45
nidOtbh, nokia needs a maemo based communicator18:45
V13crashanddie: that one :)18:45
nidOQuark_ are you referring to an hd or an hd2?18:46
V13quark: join #htc18:46
cehtehmhm .. i think i made less than 5 phone calls with my n900 so far18:46
Quark_hd2 so expensive in my country18:46
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nidOshouldnt be any more so than an n900, isnt that what your alternative is?18:46
_andyi'd like a capacitive touch screen. other than that the N900 is pretty much my ideal phone.18:46
V13andy: here's a true store..18:46
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Quark_i have 2 choice18:47
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Quark_N900 or HTC HD18:47
Quark_so hard to choose18:47
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_andyQuark_: so you came here looking for bias...?18:47
nidOmaemo + capacitive screen + gorilla glass + E-series communicator-style design = perfect phone18:47
luke-jrQuark_: LG Apollo!18:47
cehtehheh absolutely not hard .. which os is free? .. think choose18:47
zaheerm <-- for capacitive screen likers18:47
luke-jrcehteh: neither18:47
V13a month ago there was much snow and quite cold over here (greece). I was out with two friends walking while one's phone rang. Both of them have iphones and the one who's phone rang was ill so he was dressed pretty well..18:47
Quark_no i want help to choose a phone18:47
Quark_i dont have good experience18:47
Quark_in smartphones18:48
luke-jrQuark_: #htc-linux ? :)18:48
_andyV13: couldn't use it with gloves?18:48
nidOif you want a smartphone get the htc.18:48
V13because of the gloves he couldn't answer the call, so he was using his nose :-)))) after failing it with that he asked the other iphone user to press his answer button :)18:48
nidOif you want a pocket computer with a mediocre phone in it, get the n90018:48
luke-jrQuark_: fail18:48
_andyV13: i live in canada and have friends with iphones :) its only a matter of time because there's a good stylus for capacitive screens :)18:48
Quark_thx for help18:48
Quark_and sorry for waste ur time guys18:49
_andyQuark_: that is why we are here :)18:49
V13andy: indeed.. capacitive is *really* nice. I've "access" to a htc hero and it's screen is superior, even with much less resolution.18:49
V13the glass and the coating make a big difference. the capacitive too18:49
luke-jrV13: why is capacitive nice?18:49
luke-jrI've only heard bad things about capacitive18:49
nidOthe hd2's capacitive screen is really nice as well, it just seems very fragile18:49
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Quark_bye for now , see u later guys18:49
nidOtbh manufactures really need to get round to adopting gorilla glass in a proper way18:50
V13luke: it is just easier to handle and because it needs less preasure it makes the interface more smooth18:50
_andyalso.. MULTITOUCH18:50
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V13luke: observer that n900's interface is smoother when you use stylus or a nail.18:50
luke-jrV13: my resistive ts requires *no* pressure :p18:50
V13mine requires a lot18:50
luke-jrV13: and I hear in general capacitive is very inaccurate18:50
V13anyway, n900's screen is smehow plastic18:50
* SpeedEvil has no problem whatsoever just using his thumbs.18:50
zaheermand my nexus one, i keep pressing the wrong things18:50
luke-jrV13: I can't say I ever use anything other than a stylus18:51
zaheermonscreen keyboard for example is useless18:51
V13luke: while hero's is glass... feels a lot better18:51
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V13and hero's (and iphone's) has a coating that doesn't get ... how do you call it18:51
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luke-jrV13: my fingers aren't big, but they're still too big to touch accurately18:51
V13what's the thing that goes from the hands on N900's screen? :)18:51
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luke-jr= useless18:51
V13like fat18:51
_andyv13: fingerprints..?18:52
SpeedEvilV13: your fingers18:52
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V13n900's screen needs cleaning18:52
pekujaV13: grease18:52
V13greasy, oily18:52
luke-jrtouchscreens are lame :p18:52
pekujapossibly dirt also18:52
luke-jrjust give me an eraser mouse18:52
SpeedEvilI have a protector on the n90018:52
V13while hero's screen has a coating that doesn't get greasy18:52
_andyV13: i got a Zagg invisishield its  much better for that.. doesn't need as frequent cleaning.18:52
SpeedEvilso I just rub it on my t-shirt18:52
pekujaI mean, whatever grime you might have on your fingers18:52
nidOtouchscreens will always be kinda lame until theyre all made with gorilla glass and have antigrease coats on them18:52
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nidOwhich will also put the screen protector industry out of business18:53
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V13andy: are the colors still ok? is the size right?18:53
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V13so, yes... i like htc hero's screen more... and the compass.. but it stops there.. everything else is maemo/n900-win18:54
* V13 still wants a phone-button18:54
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xyzFUCK YOU ALL18:56
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xyzFUCK YOU ALL18:56
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V13nononono.. don't kick!18:57
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nidOexcessive ban?18:57
V13just ban :)18:57
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matthew-he would kill himself with excess flood18:57
V13he'd be mute18:57
smharI spent a lot of time reading the many pages of -and but still nobody seems to get a definite answer, so any one got some news on this? with the introduction of meego is the N900 a dead road? I WAS planning to get one soon18:57
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V13smhar: you mean the hardware or the software ?18:58
X-FadeWill remove the ban a bit later.18:58
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V13smhar: the hardware is just like other phones: becomes obsolete after some time... The software most probably will be upgradable to a point.18:58
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nidOjust no guarantees yet what that point is18:58
SpeedEvilThere are people porting meego to n900 as we speak18:58
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V13"porting meego" ?18:59
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smharV13, I mean is the hardware18:59
V13you mean fremantle ?18:59
smharSpeedEvil, people?18:59
WizzupDoes anyone use wpa_supplicant on N900?18:59
nidOhardware of all phones gets obsolete within a few months18:59
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SpeedEvilsmhar: humans.18:59
V13smhar: the hardware of all devices becomes obsolete when newer hardware becomes available.18:59
DarkGUNMANafternoon all19:00
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V13in #meego: villemv> smhar: Stskeeps will port Meego for n900 ;-)19:00
WizzupIt seems maemo's default networking app doesn't support te features I need for wifi19:00
DarkGUNMANquick question if anyone knows anything abou it..19:00
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* mierda butt turd19:00
smharV13, on high end -expensive- devices, this usually mean a couple of years, atleast in Nokia, not a couple of months19:00
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V13smhar: it depends on the rate of new device deployment19:01
DarkGUNMANhas anyone tried installing filezilla on easy debian successfully?19:01
V13how do you define "dead road" ?19:01
nidOa couple of years?19:01
SpeedEvilWizzup: in what way?19:01
nidOhow dyou figure that?19:01
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V13smhar: the hardware it not upgraded, so it isn't affected by such changes19:01
WizzupSpeedEvil: no EAP+TTLS19:01
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SpeedEvilIIRC the GUI configurator does the WPA_supplicanty stuff too19:02
WizzupI think I found it...
povbotBug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth19:02
smharv13, and specially not ones running linux based systems. I am still using a Dreambox 700 which I update regularly although it is discontinued. My home network server is P233 MHz running the latest debian updated regularly19:02
nidOsmhar it also entirely depends on exactly what you mean by "obsolete" - my e90 (one of the most expensive phones nokia has ever made?) is an ancient decrepid piece of crap by current standards in terms of the hardware that's in it, but it still does everything perfectly fine19:02
V13smhar: but now you're talking about the software.19:03
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V13smhar: are you asking whether n900 won't be the top Nokia's device for a long time ?19:03
smharv13, no. I am talking about the software being supported by developers. if it was not based on linux, the DB7000 would be a huge door stopper by now.19:04
crashanddieX-Fade: thanks19:04
mtnbkrWizzup: and of course those features: 802.1x + eap/TTLS with inner PAP are what I need too :(19:04
V13"of course" :-)))19:04
smharV13, I am asking whether Nokia will be CARING about N900 any more19:04
Wizzupmtnbkr: That's why I asked about wpa_supplicant19:05
V13so you're talking about s/w releases / updates ?19:05
nidOsmhar - crystall ball says sortof.19:05
* Wizzup will try config files19:05
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mierdadame la papel de inodoro.  necesito tomar una mierda muy grande.19:05
smharV13, or just depends on 'other people' to provide updates and new releases when they find time19:05
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crashanddieis it stupid night?19:06
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V13+q ?19:07
* Wizzup tries to find the wlan config files on maemo 519:07
crashanddieV13: quiets people who aren't registered19:07
V13oh.. thnx19:07
crashanddieX-Fade: if anyone complains they can't talk, just remove the +q. I've just banned any unregistered users to prevent other disruptions as we've just had19:07
crashanddieI'm off to bed, for the third time, bye19:07
mgedminbit of a catch-22 there, innit?19:10
mgedminhow can they complain they can't talk if they can't talk?19:10
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cehtehare the brightness levels somewhere configureable (i mean the relation of the drivers brightness to one of the 5 selectable ones)19:17
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SpeedEvilcehteh: ++19:19
SpeedEvillevel '1' is _WAY_ too bright19:19
crashanddiemgedmin: by doing a /chanserv #maemo access list ?19:19
SpeedEvilfor dark-adapted eyes19:19
V13yes.. level 1 in 256 and level 2 is 64...19:19
cehtehyeah i need something like 0, 0.5, 1.5 and 519:19
V13i mean 5 is 256 and 4 is 64..19:20
mgedmincrashanddie, which is an invalid command, fwiw19:20
cehteh5 settings are enouhg, but they should be better configureable19:20
V13I need level "128" or half the full bright19:20
mgedminwasn't trying to keep you from bed, just admiring the situation19:20
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crashanddiemgedmin: my bad, it's 3:20 here... /chanserv access #maemo list19:20
mgedminyou need to be nickserv-registered for private messages on freenode19:21
cehtehalso the relation between the brightness sensor could be little better (its already good, but not good enough)19:21
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SpeedEvilAn actual slider would be nice19:24
crashanddiemgedmin: only if you have the +R mode on your account19:24
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SpeedEvilpress one of the 5 buttons, get one of the presets. Slide on the little bright/dark area and tweak19:25
* mgedmin still feels like a total irc noob even after all these years19:25
cehtehSpeedEvil: i'd like a self-learing system .. and then maybe only +/- buttons19:25
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mgedminisn't that mode on by default?19:25
cehtehyou know punish&reward training19:25
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mgedminah, on the _recipient's_ account19:25
mgedminso channel ops can clear that mode and hear requests from anybody19:25
* mgedmin totally confused now ;)19:26
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cehtehfreenode is always a little diffrent19:26
cehtehjust ignore it19:26
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SpeedEvilCan you run >1 x-servers? When I try to start anotehr - it just sulks. (Xorg :2)19:29
V13yes you can19:31
V13"sulks" ?19:31
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V13(I hope you don't mean in n900)19:31
SpeedEvilyes, Ido19:32
V13oh.. sry :)19:32
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cehtehhow would you switch them?19:33
tybolltthere we go19:34
V13chvt ?19:34
tybolltwhy was the chan muted again?19:34
SpeedEvilcehteh: oh - of course - these are fbs - not vts19:34
cehtehctrl-alt-f8? :)19:34
SpeedEvilchvt over ssh19:34
tybollt~curse nokla poor manufacturing skills19:34
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokla poor manufacturing skills !19:34
SpeedEvilFUCK YOU ALL19:34
SpeedEvilrepeated lots19:35
V13lol :)19:35
V13(don't kick) it reminds of19:35
V13sorry.. wrong key-binding pressed19:35
tybolltSpeedEvil: sigh why don't the kiddies stop, ever? :(19:35
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cehtehSpeedEvil: with this kindof special driver, clutter, closed gl and stuff i doubt you will have success, but you may try19:36
inzV13, ?19:36
cehtehtrying to get xephyr to the device might be easier19:36
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V13isn't easy debian working with xephyr ?19:37
SpeedEvilcehteh: Or just killing X and restarting19:37
cehtehi never tried to frickle with X on the device .. i expect there is some watchdog barking19:37
SpeedEvilyou can kill that trivially though19:37
SpeedEvilit'll be started with dsmetool19:37
cehtehwell i didnt need it yet19:38
SpeedEvilI was wanting to play with seeing if smaller bpp desktops use apperciably less power19:38
cehtehand i just reboot, i dont aim for uptime records with this phone19:38
cehtehcertainly not19:38
mgedminsmaller than 16bpp?19:38
mgedminwould that be 15bpp or 8bpp?19:39
cehtehwhy should it, its hardware accelerated and its optimized to that hardware19:39
mgedmindoes the hardware support 8bpp?19:39
SpeedEvilOne laptop - 1bpp desktop used - IIRC - 8% less power.19:39
aukesmaller bpp means less memory used, means less memory access -> potentially saving power19:39
cehtehmight even use more power when emulate something different which it isnt intended for19:39
SpeedEvilBut you've still got memory traffic across the bus19:39
SpeedEvilwith lower bpp, you don't.19:39
cehtehwell have fun19:39
SpeedEvil(or at least much less)19:39
aukeyou can probably save more power in other ways (reducing bitmap sizes e.g.)19:40
cehtehin the emulator i tried to change the dpi for resizing fonts globally, that worked, but never tried that on the device19:40
SpeedEvilpotentially, yes.19:40
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aukeyup. potentially :)19:40
SpeedEvilYou could also play with undervolting.19:40
cehtehor biggier battery19:41
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* SpeedEvil ponders.19:43
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SpeedEvilInteresting. RAID works.19:56
cehtehon the n900?19:56
SpeedEvilIn that reading from both MMCs you get considerably faster than one19:56
cehtehi was thinking about that19:56
SpeedEvilWith 150K bocks19:57
SpeedEvilI was idly wondering how silly suspend-disk would be19:57
cehtehwell first i want the camera being able to write to non fat fs19:57
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cehtehyet alone ext4 would be much faster than fat on the same disk19:58
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SpeedEvilAdding /dev/ubi0_0 seems not to help much. I guess it's contended with one of the others20:00
cehtehyou dont want to deal with the ubi stuff, thats going to crap your device20:00
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cehtehif the nand is damaged you really have a problem20:01
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SpeedEvilYou need to do ECC related stuff, yes20:01
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SpeedEvilI am somewhat surprised my cheap crap 1G SD card gets only barely slower (10s vs 8.7) than the internal MMC to read 150M. The ubi device is third at 10.5.20:05
SpeedEvil(reading uncontended)20:06
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cehtehwell this tests are not very meaningful, you want to know how they behave after some use with real (random filesystem) workload20:09
ShadowJKread speeds are generally iaround 10M even with class 2 cards20:09
ShadowJKyes, sequential speeds are generally useless20:09
SpeedEvilcehteh: I mean as a hypothetical workload restore from disk.20:09
cehtehespecially sd has high latency but is fast for sequential access20:09
ShadowJKand raid makes it worse :-)20:09
SpeedEvilFor which sequential read is sane20:10
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LuciusMareHello, is it safe to run apt-get upgrade from console?20:10
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ShadowJKever used suspend to disk? it's not sequential write/read.:D20:10
LuciusMarehow come?20:10
SpeedEvilShadowJK: it pretty much was IIRC - when I last used it.20:10
cehtehiirc ham sprinkles some fairy dust over apt to clean and put temp files somewhere else and not on the rootfs20:10
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cehtehwith apt-get upgrade from the console your rootfs may become full, at least happend for me20:11
ShadowJKBasically the first phase it swaps out all applications, and then writes and image to the end. the swapout part, and especially the swapin part on resume can be extremely random :)20:11
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: I'm talking of an ideal future where it's all linear.20:12
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cehtehnilfs :P20:12
SpeedEvilI find that odd - as I don't recall suspend being that slow.20:12
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SpeedEvilIt seemed to be doing of the order of the disks r/w bandwidthg20:12
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LuciusMareso, why?20:13
cehtehLuciusMare: ^20:13
ShadowJKon my pc it does about 5megs per sec on a hd that does over 60M/sec write :)20:13
cehtehwell try and figure20:13
LuciusMarecehteh: my connection just failed20:14
cehteh[19:11] <cehteh> iirc ham sprinkles some fairy dust over apt to clean and put temp files somewhere else and not on the rootfs20:14
cehteh[19:11] <cehteh> with apt-get upgrade from the console your rootfs may become full, at least happend for me20:14
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: I wonder if I was last using it under the old suspend infrastructure.20:15
LuciusMareokay then, but there are several pqackages (like gstreamer) that do not show in ham20:15
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cehtehmaybe do a HAM udate first and try apt update afterwards? .. dunno i never cared20:16
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ShadowJKham upgrades libraries when an app upgrade needs it20:19
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* SpeedEvil wonders why there is no UK upgrade.20:19
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cehtehits an island, which had some snow problems, shipping there is not easy20:20
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SpeedEvilThe UK is not an island.20:21
SpeedEvilThe UK is two islands.20:21
mgedminone and a fraction?20:22
SpeedEvil(not counting the lots of little ones)20:22
mgedminor do the little ones and that fraction add up to one full island?20:22
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odin_so I have to do something in scratchbox so packages for SDK upgrade are "authenticated" ?20:24
* SpeedEvil had assumed that tehre was no actual localisation going on - it was simply rolling out the firmware by region.20:24
mgedminin ye olden days apt-get upgrade could've broken your tablet20:24
mgedmine.g. by upgrading essential system packages with SDK versions, for those who added SDK repositories to their tablets20:24
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mgedminor by simply restarting core system services that trigger a watchdog reboot with the upgrade half-finished20:24
mgedminI don't know if all those issues have been fixed on the n90020:24
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mgedminHAM is the only officially supported upgrade tool (well, that, and flashing the whole rootfs, which is more like wipe + restore than upgrade)20:25
odin_apt-get upgrade: WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! .... how can I fix that in the SDK ?20:25
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V13do you see any thanks on the first post of: ?20:25
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mgedminV13, I don't20:26
V13there were a lot, i pressed thanks and they disapeared !20:26
V13and I can't "thank" or "remove thanks" in that post20:26
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I guess the main issue is with RF regulations20:27
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V13how can i report this for t.m.o ?20:30
mgedminV13, caching issues?20:31
V13with you too ?20:32
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V13ok.. bug report submitted...20:34
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ensonicbah, the flasher does indeed not work on opensuse11.220:43
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cehtehensonic: will you be at LAC?20:54
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* RST38h yawns20:58
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cehtehheh .. morning or whatever :P .. you can package my xchat plugin now, i added few things should be really ok now21:00
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ensoniccehteh: I submitted a talk, so most probably yes :)21:01
cehtehok, see you there21:01
ensoniccehteh: if you tell me who you are ...21:02
SpeedEvilcehteh: Did you get the remotely activate front camera thing working properly?21:02
cehtehensonic: we met 2 years ago on lac, lumiera video editor..21:02
ensoniccehteh: ahh, remember21:02
cehtehSpeedEvil: huh? me? never tried21:03
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SpeedEvilnvm - I was implying there was a trojan.21:04
* SpeedEvil wonders what fraction of code in extras has ever been read since submission.21:04
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cehtehhehe poor spy it he has to use that crappy front-cam :P21:05
SpeedEvils/frac/tiny frac/21:06
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RST38hSpeedEvil: somehow I suspect that was a rhetorical question21:06
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SpeedEvilI actually do wonder what fraction of the code has been read.21:07
cehtehhey .. we can make video chat over irc .. the frontcam should barly suffice for libaa rendered video :)21:07
SpeedEvilOr even compared with upstream21:07
cehtehSpeedEvil: yeah i guess so too .. but well .. my code is open and i use it by myself feel free to review it21:08
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SpeedEvilI don't expect that there is one in there. idly wondering21:08
cehtehi even posted only the code first that anyone has to self compile it .. only someone asked for posting a binary21:08
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cehtehi mean yes, i think this are valid concerns and some code-review tool for would be nice21:09
cehtehjust that *someone* reads code, comment on it and signs it21:10
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cehtehif you then trust his skills, comments and signature is another thing, but that would be a start21:10
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SpeedEvilFirst cut to catch system() is quite easy.21:10
SpeedEvilAnd doesn't take much skill.21:10
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cehtehnah thats to easy ..21:11
SpeedEvilCatching more advanced stuff like buffer exploits...21:11
cehtehyou should suspect that anyone who want to slip a trojan in will do little harder21:11
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SpeedEvilLike writing a jpeg library so that the decompressor has a subtle bug that allows stack overflow.21:11
cehtehor a xchat plugin :P21:12
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b0unc3hi guys, which is the best method to start an installed application from a gui (C/GTK)  ?21:16
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cehtehprovide a .desktop file?21:17
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b0unc3cehteh, I want to run an installed application reading the .desktop file from my own app21:18
cehtehhehe system() :P21:18
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cehtehwell seriously .. there are some dbus message to start apps21:19
b0unc3cehteh, system for the bin execution maybe... but I want to use a clean way with dbus/libosso21:19
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jeez_Is there a file where I can find the sizes of widgets, shortcuts, etc, from the Hildon Home ? With gconf I found all positions, but no sizes21:23
jeez_the shortcut icons always have the same size but widgets don't21:24
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pwnguinhmm. this is annyoing. i can't remember where i saw the source code that turns the video camera red LED on and off =/21:30
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SpeedEvilit's in the video driver21:31
SpeedEvilsee the n900_led_flashlight page on the wiki, I linked to it21:31
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shinkamuimy finger hurts21:38
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cehtehtoo much angry birds?21:41
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Lumpio-Angry Birds is Maemo's Tuxracer, I take it21:43
Lumpio-(I want new levels >_<21:43
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* SpeedEvil has done all 3 tiers of levels, and still wants more.21:44
Lumpio-There's more tiers? >_>21:44
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Lumpio-I never figured out how to get them21:44
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Lumpio-...not that I tried anything besides the button that appears at the end, which just seems to let you download the same app again21:44
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SpeedEvilLumpio-: there are 3*21 levels21:46
Lumpio-How do I get moar :<21:47
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SpeedEvilLumpio-: I got the other 2 via apt-get21:47
SpeedEvilbefore I realised they were pay-for21:47
Lumpio-I thought they weren't out or something since it just kept offering me the first one21:47
SpeedEvilthey haven't properly sorted out the store yet21:47
Lumpio-Wait you can just get them like that? >_>21:47
Lumpio-What are the package names21:47
SpeedEvilthat got pulled21:47
SpeedEvilI think I've nuked the original package :/21:47
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Nitialthere are some community made levels, but yeah, the official level pack hasn't returned to store :(21:52
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pwnguinSpeedEvil: actually, i dont think it is. i was fairly sure it was in gdigicam =/21:54
pwnguinSpeedEvil: the logic to turn the led on / off during recording I mean21:54
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Lumpio-I've already completed the first 21 levels with 3 stars and I want more :(21:58
Lumpio-damn slow nokia21:58
pwnguinLumpio-: you could try sgt-puzzles21:59
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SpeedEvilenigma is also annoying21:59
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Lumpio-pwnguin: I doubts it has birds22:03
pwnguinit has kenken22:03
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Lumpio-WTF is that22:05
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Milo-dual screen!22:06
RST38hThat is why you cannot run it on N900: TWO SCREENS22:06
lcuki have 2  n900s22:06
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lcukRST38h, that looks wrong tho22:06
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RST38hlcuk: I am sure you have not glued yours like that yet22:07
Milo-that's the reason why calculator companies shouldn't go to mobile phone business22:07
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Lumpio-Judging by the keyboard that thing must be /ginormous/22:07
Lumpio-If it's supposed to be thumbable thatis22:07
Lumpio-Who shopped it?22:07
pwnguinwell, until you can close it to trigger suspend gimmick puzzles22:07
lcukRST38h, duct tape22:07
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Stskeepswb jebba90022:10
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RST38h"In this video from the annual DICE summit,Schell comments on recent evolutions in gaming before fixating on a concept where our futures evolve into one big RPG."22:12
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* SpeedEvil plays a magician-idiot.22:13
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* ShadowJK shakes his head at the people on tmo graphing the battery meter and drawing tangents trying to come up with smart sounding conclusions22:24
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lcukShadowJK, cool22:26
* lcuk likes graphs22:27
lcukand wiggly lines22:27
lcukespecially scrolling them22:27
ShadowJKbattery-eye or battery-graph something in -devel or -testing22:27
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ShadowJKbut the nature of the battery meter on n900, and the way that it's updated makes it pretty unusable for drawing tangents and looking at the slope22:28
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Arkenoiproporta case seems to be much better than pdair. no film on keyboard at least.22:30
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lcukShadowJK, also, im betting it updates pretty slowly22:31
jacekowskinice tinyurl thingy22:32
ShadowJKlcuk: once every 2 hours when idle ime22:32
lcukShadowJK, i meant to see drastic changes22:32
ShadowJKlcuk: or randomly every few minutes when screen is on22:32
lcuki have a battery doofer here that just moves from empty to full22:33
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lcukShadowJK, technical term, i zoom into it in here
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ShadowJKthe n900 meter does roughly that at end of charge22:38
ShadowJKin one big leap :D22:38
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lcukShadowJK, theres no way for any battery meter to get it right22:40
lcuki was sat in amsterdam at the summit, and my device was giving me death wails22:41
lcuki sat down to take some notes22:41
lcukand it lasted the next 2 hours22:41
SpeedEvilyes, htere is.22:41
SpeedEvilbut it's comple.22:41
lcukit infact stopped moanin22:41
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lcukyeah of22:41
SpeedEvilYou need a decent battery model22:42
Shrik3 - using MeeGo reguires a meego avatar, true story.22:42
ShadowJKWell, I'd actually define the goal of the battery meter as measuring where between full snf battery-low-warning it is :)22:43
lcukShadowJK, but if you smooth it too much it will be wrong22:44
lcukand if its too fine, it will be wrong22:44
lcukthere is no perfect way22:44
SpeedEvilyou don't smooth it22:45
SpeedEvilyou calculate the energy remaining in the battery, and display that.22:45
SpeedEvilThis takes either a charge meter chip - or some annoying maths.22:45
SpeedEvilthere is no charge meter in the n90022:45
lcukand if you display it whilst theres a 0.1second 100% cpu busy spot22:45
lcukit will say 10seconds remain22:46
lcukthen cpu drops  back to idle22:46
lcukand you get 1hr22:46
ShadowJKMy software meter on n810 is 1% accurate within 18 hours (of resetting it) and similar use, and about 10% accuracy for a few days :D22:46
SpeedEvilyes - I'm meaning you can meaningfully display amount the battery will supply in each usecase.22:46
SpeedEvilBut it's not trivial.22:46
ShadowJKOh, time estimates are pure bull22:47
lcukShadowJK, but your capacity is based on current and voltage drop and stuff22:47
lcukand that changes with device usage22:47
SpeedEvilIf you have a proper charge meter, it's not.22:48
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ShadowJKOn N8x0 we can access the current sensor22:49
SpeedEvilIf you don't - you can fake it to a large degree - but the code isn't trivial22:49
ShadowJKcheck out hald-addon-bme stuff in Mer for how22:49
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ShadowJKSo I set my counter to 0 at battery low warning, connect charger, measure charge-consumption, add it to the counter once per second22:50
ShadowJKand then stream shoutcast until battery empty, and the meter has been very close to 022:50
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ShadowJKN900 most probaböy has a current sensor... However, I don't think it has a integrating battery fuel gauge chip..22:52
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ShadowJKI suspect it occasionally samples battery voltage, and perhaps also samples the current consumption to correct the voltage with a model of the battery's internal resistance, and another model to map that voltage to remaining capacity22:54
lcukdont forget to take temp into account22:55
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sobczyk_hi anyone here user qtirreco?22:56
ShadowJKif it's really clever it could poll the current sensor constantly during charge (hey, infinite amounts of power available, lets burn it on polling!) to adjust the internal resistance model as the batery ages, and also to measure the current capacity of the battery22:56
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: I saw nothing spectacularly clever in the bme driver kernelside23:02
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: the voltage polling seemingly stops with - at least - the display off23:02
SpeedEvilWhich is perhaps suboptimal.23:02
ShadowJKI think the general rule is that it's checked if the battery icon is visible23:03
SpeedEvilIf you explicitly read /sys/voltage - it should retrigger it23:03
SpeedEvilI don't think so23:03
SpeedEvila lot of the time I had fbreader open and it seemed ok23:03
ShadowJKSometimes it seems I've been able to "force" an update by tapping the status bar to open the status menu's bigger battery icon :)23:04
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ShadowJKThere are also chips available where the "magic" is in the chip itself :)23:07
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sobczyk_why there is no middle repository between the poor extras and sometimes broken extras-devel?23:07
SpeedEvilI need to teach strace how to understand shit.23:08
ifreqsobczyk_: there is testing..23:08
sobczyk_ifreq, It has the same packages as -devel23:08
ifreqnot all23:09
sobczyk_whatI'm referring to are the broken pyqt23:09
ifreqnot everyone package from devel has been promoted to testing23:09
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lcuksobczyk_, -testing is that middle ground23:11
lcuksometimes tho the wrong thing can be pushed up23:11
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lcukand since you can only have 1 in testing23:11
lcukit just replaces and then makes vanish23:12
lcukif you demote23:12
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sobczyk_some packages have bad dependencies23:19
threshhow do i read image alt text in microb?23:20
threshe.g. how do i read xkcd23:21
lcukYou want me to pick up waffle cones? Oh, right, for the wine. One sec, let me just derive your son's credit card number and I'll be on my way." alt="Principle of Explosion23:21
sobczyk_ie. ankiqt in extras-devel lacks python2.5-qt4-gui and more, and it fails during launch probably because of a pyqt bug23:21
ifreqsobczyk_: then contact the builder23:22
ifreqerr maintainer23:22
threshlcuk: okay, i'll poke you on monday then :D23:22
lcukthresh, just ask in chan23:22
lcukits easiest method23:22
threshhelpful community, loving it23:23
lcukive had it answered for me numerous times23:23
lcukxkcd is the only place people ask, we should get upstream to change their site ;)23:24
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sobczyk_anyone tried the adblock and/or greasemonkey?23:26
sobczyk_whether they slow down the browser or not23:27
greenflysobczyk_: I had to blow away the addon dir first before it worked for me23:27
SpeedEviladblock may speed it up23:27
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sobczyk_greasemonkey could be used for alt in xkcd :)23:28
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AntiXpucThi there23:29
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AntiXpucTanybody knows, where i can get ipv6 module and some repository with zsh-4.3.10 (and other soft) for fremantle (Maemo 5)?23:31
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cehtehgrr bouncer switch23:37
Stskeepsthings i'd never think i'd hear myself think: "oh, i have a too old version of DSME".23:39
lcukAntiXpucT, i dont know specifically, at fosdem i heard someone talking about ipv6 modules for n90023:40
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threshenter doesnt work in mutt2 while launched in screen23:48
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threshany ideas?23:48
cehteh\o/ new bouncer ...23:48
threshevery other app seem to be ok23:48
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cehtehhehe someone asked me for the same problem earlier23:48
cehtehthe enter key on the n900 is kp-enter not return .. you have to be creative and remap that somehow23:49
threshat least thats not a local misconfig then :)23:49
lcukholy crap,
lcuknext we will get warp nacells on the sides of cell phones.23:49
* lcuk can just imagine the new nokia N1701 boldly going where no phone has gone before23:50
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