IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-02-17

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mashiara	no install-kernel in install-arch	00:00
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* mashiara has been patching the rules file all evening		00:00
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Stskeeps	ds3: what i do know is that its OBS based. ARM is very included in meego plans.	00:00
ds3	in otherwords, is Mer going to survive as a viable path for us N800 folks or should we look elsewhere?	00:00
Stskeeps	ds3: i am still providing a path for n8x0.	00:01
Stskeeps	ds3: will give more info as it evolves.	00:01
Scelt	GAN900: ma as mo in monday, e as e in red and mo as mo in morning :-D easier pronouncing instructions?	00:01
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ds3	Stskeeps: It sounds like if Intel does try to push ARM out, Mer is likely to fork to keep ARM code alive?	00:02
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Stskeeps	ds3: i doubt this will happen.	00:02
Stskeeps	ds3: as in intel doing that.	00:03
ds3	why would you doubt that?	00:03
itdock	its agains their best interest to do that	00:03
Stskeeps	marketing disaster.	00:03
ds3	Atom and ARMv7 stuff are vying for the same area	00:03
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Stskeeps	also, its a linx foundation projec.t	00:03
Stskeeps	u	00:03
ds3	Like the core Linux folks give a hoot about non x86	00:03
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vmlemon_	Mah-emmo, then?	00:04
vmlemon_	Or more like Myamoh?	00:04
ds3	we shall see I guess	00:05
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Stskeeps	ds3: its better to participate and collaborate to prevent shit like that happening. oss allows forks to happen. but, too much ARM in nokia devices.	00:05
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Stskeeps	ds3: and there are more partners and participants joining	00:06
ds3	the real test would be when they start putting in code... will there be NEON and SSE versions or is it going to be just SSE	00:07
ds3	talk is nice but action is what is important	00:07
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Stskeeps	ds3: yes, and we'll see	00:08
ml-mobile	hmm	00:08
ml-mobile	why does it seem that NSU causes most of the update issues?	00:09
ds3	back to finding a way to acquire a N900 ;)	00:09
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Chiku	when I install frozen bubbles, there is missing package error	00:10
* Arif sells ds3 his N900 for €750		00:10
Chiku	perl-modules missing	00:11
Lumpio-	1) go to shop 2) hand over money 3) receive N900	00:11
Arif	shhh	00:11
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GeneralAntilles	ds3, I don't see Nokia letting Intel push ARM out.	00:13
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greenfly	yeah if they pushed ARM out they'd be out on a limb	00:14
GeneralAntilles	Even if x86 starts to become viable in the highest-end phones that still leaves a large segment uncovered for a long time yet.	00:14
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Jaffa	Gah, I want to poke my eyes out.	00:14
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Arif	why?	00:15
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jacekowski	GeneralAntilles: i think that intel would make arm compatible something	00:15
Arif	and do you need any help? :o	00:15
ds3	GA: why not? Intel wants to sell atoms, Nokia is a potential user of Atoms... Atoms have less royalities so it can be cheaper....	00:15
GeneralAntilles	jacekowski, I'd love to see Intel back in the ARM picture.	00:15
jacekowski	there isn't much royalities on ARM	00:16
vmlemon_	Isn't that why they make the XScale line?	00:16
GeneralAntilles	ds3, well, Nokia has a very long relationship with TI	00:16
itdock	intel sold xscale to marvell	00:16
ds3	GA: and TI used to make x86's :D	00:16
jacekowski	it's only 1% of chip price	00:16
GeneralAntilles	ds3, I don't see them abandoning that for both technical and political reasons.	00:16
ds3	intel still has parts of the xscale line	00:16
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vmlemon_	Aah. Looks like Intel still have some vestigial content on their Website. Oh well.	00:16
GeneralAntilles	ds3, but, yeah, I guess we'll see.	00:16
GeneralAntilles	ds3, I'm optimistic though.	00:16
jacekowski	and 1.2% on cortex	00:17
jacekowski	so it's almost nothing compared to all other costs	00:17
GeneralAntilles	ds3, especially since every statement I've seen around MeeGo from people who have the credentials to make them says that both will be supported.	00:17
itdock	i don't see why we want a chip that uses 100x more idle power	00:17
mashiara	grr! should have read that rules file more clearly...	00:17
mashiara	no install-modules either	00:17
jacekowski	itdock: datasheet	00:17
ds3	GA: It'd have more weight if that was AFTER the SoC Atom is available	00:17
GeneralAntilles	ds3, true.	00:17
jacekowski	itdock: and show me where does it say that it uses 100x more power in idle	00:18
ds3	jacekowski: 1% on cortex... but how many ARM cores are in say the OMAP?	00:18
GeneralAntilles	ds3, still, it's not even remotely close to the proper power consumption needed to slap it in an N900-sized device yet.	00:18
jacekowski	ds3: 1% of chip price	00:18
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GeneralAntilles	ds3, 1, I believe.	00:18
mashiara	so my new modules package did absolutely nothing, flashing kernel requiring said modules and surprise! device won't boot...	00:18
GeneralAntilles	ds3, OMAP3, anyway.	00:18
jacekowski	ds3: and 1.2% for cortex based chips	00:18
GeneralAntilles	ds3, I think OMAP2 had an ARM11 and an ARM7.	00:18
ds3	GA: the OMAP3 has multiple ARM cores... not all of which is exposed	00:18
GeneralAntilles	ds3, DSP is a TI core, PowerVR is ImagTech	00:19
jacekowski	ds3: it's 1.2% of chip price	00:19
GeneralAntilles	ds3, the image processing stuff is TI, too, I believe.	00:19
ShadowJK	manufacturers in general use tiny arm cores here and there for housekeeping tasks	00:19
* Arif blinks		00:19
jacekowski	and n900 is cortex	00:19
ds3	GA: there is at least an ARM9 buried in there	00:19
Arif	what?	00:19
Arif	:D	00:19
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jacekowski	read what does it say on back of it when you open it	00:20
jacekowski	ARM Cortex-A8 \| 32GB	00:20
jacekowski	ARM Cortex-A8 \| 32GB Designed in Finland	00:20
lardman\|home	ds3: you sure, sounds like OMAP2 to me	00:21
ds3	lardman\|home: IIRC, it came from a TI guy	00:21
jacekowski	it's TI	00:21
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ds3	the other cores are not exposed	00:21
jacekowski	there is a lot of TI stuff in this phone	00:21
SystemParadox	what the: "memory is read only until fixed. Try fixing it with a PC using the USB cable" - HUH?	00:21
lardman\|home	what does the arm7 core do?	00:22
GeneralAntilles	lardman\|home, ARM7 on OMAP2 was the IVA.	00:22
ds3	trying to find references to it	00:22
lardman\|home	the IVA in the OMAP2 was iirc an ARM7 or 9	00:22
jacekowski	IVA?	00:22
lardman\|home	Imaging Video Acceleration unit	00:22
lardman\|home	coprocessor/etc	00:22
ShadowJK	SystemParadox, connect to PC, run scandisk if you use windows, fsck if you use *nix..	00:23
SystemParadox	on which partition?	00:23
GeneralAntilles	w00t, you're bringing down the whole tone of the Community Working Group page. :P	00:24
jacekowski	SystemParadox: notworking one	00:24
Jaffa	Arif: Belatedly - tmo.	00:24
jacekowski	not working*	00:24
ShadowJK	there'll only be one presented, or two if you have a microsd card	00:24
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Arif	Jaffa, having a good time reading? :P	00:24
CutMeOwnThroat	is there a way to check what consumes power on a N810? The battery essentially went empty within 5 hours of mostly being idle - GPS, Network, and probably Bluetooth all off, top shows activities in the 4% range for the most active maemo-launcher process... What should I look for?	00:24
lardman\|home	Jaffa: have you considered pinned shortcuts at the top of Catorise?	00:24
lardman\|home	e.g. Phone, Media player, or whatever else a user might want	00:25
GeneralAntilles	pinned where?	00:25
marmoute	pinned short cuts at the top of Catorise ?	00:25
lardman\|home	i.e. on the top line	00:25
lardman\|home	not in the menu	00:25
GeneralAntilles	Erm?	00:25
GeneralAntilles	i.e., at the top of the category view?	00:26
lardman\|home	so you don't have to dig down into Media or Comms, you just click the shortcut to said apps straight away	00:26
lardman\|home	yeah	00:26
* Arif just uses the 4 desktops to sort the apps/games however he wants		00:26
lardman\|home	I'd prefer to have info on my desktops, though I do keep a Phone shortcut there	00:26
GeneralAntilles	lardman\|home, then I have to scroll to get to all the categories	00:26
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lardman\|home	hmm	00:27
Shapeshifter	so, after the upgrade to 1.1.1 it seems like my desktop is completely unresponsive from time to time, I think mainly whem somethings going on in the status area. anyone else noticing this?	00:27
lardman\|home	yes	00:27
ds3	can the N900 export the 3G network using an AdHoc WiFi connection?	00:27
TomaszD	GeneralAntilles, there is space for two icons, I'd love to have "Phone" and "Conversations" jammed in there	00:27
ds3	(I'm expecting it to do NAT)	00:27
mashiara	ds3: there are two threads about this on talk	00:28
jacekowski	ds3: probably yes	00:28
Shapeshifter	I tap on stuff and nothing happens and then after a minute or so all of a sudden all the stuff opens up	00:28
jacekowski	if it can support ad-hoc then i would say yes	00:28
lardman\|home	TomaszD: for me there's only space for one, and as the number of categories increases (perhaps) we'll need to scroll anyway	00:28
ds3	is the search working on talk today?	00:28
mashiara	sd3: First JoikuSpot http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=526265#post526265	00:28
GeneralAntilles	TomaszD, depends on which stuff you have installed.	00:28
pupnik	Shapeshifter: ssh-in to the tablet and run 'top' to see what is taking up cpu	00:28
GeneralAntilles	TomaszD, if you've got something from every single category then it's filled.	00:28
mashiara	ds3: second MobileHotspot http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=530664#post530664	00:28
mashiara	ds3: the stock kernel does not have NAT	00:28
GeneralAntilles	lardman\|home, ideally the number of categories wont be changing.	00:29
mashiara	ds3: Joiku people work around this in "interesting" way	00:29
TomaszD	GeneralAntilles, ah, didn't know	00:29
jacekowski	you can simulate NAT in userland	00:29
Lumpio-	...exactly	00:29
jacekowski	if you really want to	00:29
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mashiara	ds3: "we" aka the MobileHotspot thread people are building custom kernel	00:29
Lumpio-	I looked at their GPL source code	00:29
Lumpio-	It was like three pages	00:29
lardman\|home	GeneralAntilles: still, having some direct access icons and being able to change the order of the others would suit me	00:29
Lumpio-	All it does is hook into netfilter or whatever and then they do everything in userspace	00:29
TomaszD	anyone knows the point of Physio Rep Counter? Why do I have to push the start button every rep...	00:29
mashiara	jcekowski: yes but I'm not a networking programmer	00:29
Lumpio-	If I read it correctly	00:29
mashiara	or C programmer even	00:29
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GeneralAntilles	lardman\|home, function of having sortable menus, I guess.	00:29
mashiara	Lumpio: It's because all the real work is done in some userland blob which talks to the kernel via the trivial module they have	00:30
mashiara	which of course must be GPL since it's a kernel module	00:30
Lumpio-	Didn't I just say that	00:31
ds3	mashiara: Nice	00:31
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jacekowski	mashiara: it doesn't have to be GPL	00:31
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jacekowski	mashiara: you can link non-gpl modules to kernel	00:31
ds3	mashiara: I assume you guys have discounted setting up the N900 as a PAN server?	00:31
jacekowski	mashiara: it will taint it but licensewise it's ok	00:31
Shapeshifter	pupnik: Im not sure its a cpu related problem as really only the desktop freezes. task manager or e.g. launching a term with ctrl shift x still works fast and nicely	00:31
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jacekowski	mashiara: and kernel developers don't accept oops/panics from people running tainted kernels	00:32
Shapeshifter	just the desktop widgets and buttons freeze for a minute	00:32
mashiara	jacekowski: true though and I was just coming to that oops part...	00:32
ds3	what's the oops?	00:32
jacekowski	it's almost like a panic	00:32
jacekowski	but not so bad	00:32
ds3	I know what an "oops" is	00:32
jacekowski	it's recoverable error in kernel	00:32
ds3	I am asking what is the text of it...i.e I am offering to do a quick analysis	00:33
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jacekowski	so something went wrong, system might be unstable	00:33
pupnik	the worst part about the N900 isn't anything related to the N900 - it's these godawful website designs	00:33
jacekowski	but it wasn't bad enough for kernel panic	00:33
mashiara	we were talking about the module license tainting kernel	00:33
mashiara	and kernels devs not accepting oopses or panics if kernel is tainted	00:33
lardman\|home	well I think the email client is pretty rubbish myself	00:33
lardman\|home	are there any faster alternatives?	00:33
mashiara	no specific oops to debug now	00:33
jacekowski	no	00:34
ds3	ah	00:34
jacekowski	i can debug my own oopses myself	00:34
ds3	if you have a specific opps, we can look at it and deduce stuff. tainting does make it harder but...	00:34
woglinde	jo whats up	00:34
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jacekowski	i still have madwifi drivers causing panics	00:35
mashiara	ds3: as for PAN haven't looked at it much (in fact I don't really know the details of PAN either)	00:35
jacekowski	but i never had time to fix it	00:35
mashiara	ds3: but doesn't routing the PAN stuff still require some sort of NAT ?	00:35
ds3	mashiara: okay... guess I shouldn't even ask about DUN then :D	00:35
Jaffa	lardman\|home: If you edit /opt/catorise/menu you can put "_root" as the category and it'll go at the top-level. No support for multiple locations yet (i.e. "_root,utilities") though	00:36
mashiara	DUN works	00:36
ds3	mashiara: yep... only reason I mentioned PAN is because BT should use less power then AdHoc	00:36
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ds3	DUN works? nice	00:36
mashiara	http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles	00:37
ds3	if the N900 is going to replace the treo, I need someway of using the 3G connection from a laptop	00:37
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jacekowski	ds3: cable + pcsuite	00:37
ds3	jacekowski: uh.. no.	00:37
jacekowski	ds3: and you can use dialup	00:37
jacekowski	ds3: why?	00:37
mashiara	there is some package in maemo extras repo that enables the dun server and probably uses less naive implementation than the example there	00:37
ds3	I do not want to carry more cables	00:37
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mashiara	actually the "pc-suite" USB-mode works dor dialup on linux too	00:38
lardman\|home	Jaffa: ok, will have a look at that, thanks	00:38
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wazd	seriously, stop considerring "maeblin" as a name on t.m.o. :D	00:39
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wazd	I'm really tired to laugh :D	00:40
woglinde	wazd g	00:40
ds3	figure since I am asking questions... is there java support? :D	00:40
ds3	J2SE, that is	00:40
Arif	ew, java	00:40
* GeneralAntilles stabs ds3 in the eye.		00:40
Arif	why would anyone want that	00:40
Lumpio-	ew, java	00:40
zChris	So whats wrong with java?	00:41
Jaffa	Right, mailing lists caught up with; tmo all read and just a couple of wiki.meego.com edits to make	00:41
ds3	cuz one of the few GPS track viewers out there is written in java	00:41
Arif	I'd rather have flash 10!	00:41
* wazd 's downloading Queen discography in .flac . haba-haba		00:41
ds3	if there was something else there besides the ever crashing Maemomapper....	00:41
* Arif transcodes the flac files to 24kbit mp3s		00:41
ds3	maemomapper gets rather upset when there are about more then 72 continous hours of tracks :/	00:42
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GeneralAntilles	ds3, there are at least a half-dozen map and GPS-related software packages available.	00:42
GeneralAntilles	ds3, likely one or more can do what you need.	00:42
Arif	you could also buy a map	00:42
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ds3	Arif: I just want to review where I went	00:43
ds3	i.e. render GPX files locally.. and no, I do not want to render it on googlemaps	00:43
ds3	MM is a great app but it chokes on large enough datasets	00:43
Arif	wait for ovi maps to not suck?	00:43
ds3	it isn't the map that I care about	00:44
GeneralAntilles	ds3, eCoach, Maep or similar may also work.	00:44
GeneralAntilles	ds3, though Maemo Mapper should by happier with more hardware resources to work with.	00:44
rom1dep	ds3: j2se is supported through ejre but you're probably thinking about midlets written using the j2me stack...	00:44
ds3	so try and see :D	00:44
ds3	rom1dep: no, I am thinking about desktop java apps	00:45
rom1dep	so try ejre...	00:45
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ds3	<-- trying to justify blowing 2.5x what was spent on the N800 :D	00:46
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GeneralAntilles	ds3, do it.	00:46
GeneralAntilles	ds3, changed my life.	00:46
mashiara	args, now I gotta go to sleep the PR1.1.1 kernel source package is driving me crazt	00:46
ds3	GA: changed? as in you now live in a cardboard box under a freeway? :D	00:47
GeneralAntilles	ds3, just buy it from somewhere with a good return policy if you're worried.	00:47
GeneralAntilles	ds3, admittedly I'm biased since I got a proto, but still.	00:47
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ds3	GA: it is the 2.5x... electronics is suppose to get cheaper not blow up by 2.5x	00:47
GeneralAntilles	It's the best damn mobile device I've ever used.	00:47
GeneralAntilles	ds3, N800 was 1+ year after release	00:48
GeneralAntilles	Give it another 8 months and the N900 will be super cheap too.	00:48
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ds3	there is just a whole list of concerns and quite a few of them are likely to kick in about after 1 year of use :/	00:48
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* lardman\|home is feeling all C++'d out		00:48
rom1dep	offscreen apps are probably eye-candy but coded with feets Oo	00:48
ds3	like lack of viable USB host, lack of full size SD slots, longevitiy of the power connector	00:48
* rom1dep is amazed by cpu consumption		00:49
ds3	2.5x would be fine if it is as robust and as useful as the N800	00:49
ShadowJK	the connector itself has excellent life expectancy, especially as it will see limited use once it detached from the n900 :D	00:49
ds3	hahahaha	00:50
ds3	I was reading about that yesterday	00:50
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t-tan	mashiara: there is no PR1.1.1 kernel upgrade!?	00:51
wazd	any Flash gurus in here?	00:51
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ds3	memory, UI, or raincoat related flash? :D	00:52
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wazd	Adobe one :)	00:52
lardman\|home	bonus points if you know all 3?	00:52
corecode	raincoat?	00:52
corecode	not pictures?	00:52
lardman\|home	flashing	00:52
lardman\|home	ah, another one	00:52
corecode	heh	00:52
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wazd	yeahyeah, camera too	00:52
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wazd	and superhero	00:53
corecode	so what's the community reaction to mEEgO?	00:53
wazd	corecode: I'm not seeing any bad in this name	00:53
wazd	seriously	00:53
wazd	['migou]-what's wrong with it?	00:54
corecode	nono, no problem with the name	00:54
Scelt	nah, pronounced Finnish as maemo.	00:54
corecode	i'm just wondering, since the technical and social foundation seems to change	00:54
Scelt	[meeko]	00:54
wazd	corecode: community nmostly discuss the name :D	00:54
marmoute	tibetans name for meego	00:55
corecode	ah, who cares	00:55
marmoute	s/meego/big foot/	00:55
infobot	marmoute meant: tibetans name for big foot	00:55
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corecode	wow what a useless bot :)	00:55
marmoute	lol	00:56
wazd	so, any Adobe Flash gurus in here? :P	00:56
greenfly	it does make you curious for how well it escapes regexes though	00:56
lardman\|home	wazd: don't forget the discussion of deb vs rpm ;)	00:56
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wazd	~burn corecode	00:56
* infobot pours gasoline all over corecode, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		00:56
rom1dep	Oo	00:56
wazd	lardman\|home: I thought it was just spam :D	00:56
lardman\|home	well there is a lot of it!	00:57
wazd	corecode: who's useless now? :D	00:57
greenfly	next thing you know, we'll find out the default meego editor is emacs	00:57
lardman\|home	nah, surely vi vs vim	00:57
greenfly	then the holy war circle will be complete	00:57
acidjazz	MY GOD	00:57
acidjazz	WORLD WILL COLLAPSE	00:57
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w00t	GeneralAntilles: i aim to please	00:58
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ds3	ewwwwwwwwwwwwww vim	00:58
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:58
ds3	;)	00:58
t-tan	acidjazz: that's scheduled for 2012	00:58
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rom1dep	+ trem	00:58
corecode	hey, i was serious	00:58
greenfly	moblin = dogs, maemo = cats, meego = living together	00:58
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greenfly	mass hysteria	00:59
ph1l	meego =eating each other :-)	00:59
corecode	will there be people re-packaging meego into deb? will there be people continuing maemo	00:59
corecode	wtc	00:59
corecode	etc*	00:59
ds3	ipk's!	00:59
t-tan	corecode: Harmattan will be deb	00:59
corecode	as maemo	01:00
corecode	not as meego	01:00
autoguy	corecode: are you typing on your n900 or what? :)	01:00
corecode	no, why?	01:00
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t-tan	corecode: Ubuntu netbook remix is already Moblin as deb	01:00
corecode	aha	01:01
corecode	see, it gets more confusing	01:01
corecode	so what is moblin then?	01:01
autoguy	Just kidding: wtc, etc, typical small keyboard typos.	01:01
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corecode	or rather, meego	01:01
corecode	autoguy: big fingers :)	01:02
autoguy	Aha!	01:02
Jaffa	t-tan: UNR isn't based on Moblin.	01:02
corecode	more confusion!	01:02
corecode	:D	01:02
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Jaffa	There are Moblin packages for Ubuntu, but it's not UNR	01:02
autoguy	Isn't Moblin just linux with a GTK/Clutter interface optimized for a small screen?	01:03
autoguy	Then there's the GENIVI project for in-car infotainment, based on Moblin	01:03
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autoguy	And Meego is targeting automotive too, or so they claim	01:03
Jaffa	autoguy: Depends if you mean Moblin 1 or Moblin 2	01:03
rom1dep	moblin desktop isn't moblin the project	01:03
autoguy	It's all the same stuff, just rebranding ffs	01:03
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Jaffa	autoguy: Moblin 2 (the current one) has a custom Gtk+ UI	01:03
autoguy	Jaffa: difference? which one did I mean? :)	01:04
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autoguy	ok. anyway some components are switched in and out but I can't see a lot of difference...	01:05
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autoguy	And everyone is moving to Qt or?	01:05
Jaffa	autoguy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okfHSyixLy4	01:05
autoguy	thanks, watching	01:06
Jaffa	autoguy: And http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/05/hands-on-intel-brings-rich-ui-to-moblin-linux-platform.ars	01:06
autoguy	Yeah that's the UI I was thinking of	01:06
autoguy	The video makes me sea sick	01:07
iPeter-	Is there some way to add a icon what is a folder to put there icons? Can you cuztoimize your app menu?	01:07
iPeter-	on nokia N900, maemo	01:07
Jaffa	Right, that's not UNR. Although there is a Ubuntu Moblin Remix ;-)	01:07
autoguy	of course!	01:07
Jaffa	iPeter-: <plug> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/catorise/ </plug>	01:07
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iPeter-	Jaffa: Thanks.	01:08
Jaffa	autoguy: I'm using Ubuntu Netbook Remix right now, and it's very shiny - but a lot closer to "normal" GNOME than Moblin	01:08
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t-tan	Jaffa: yes, I mixed it up	01:08
autoguy	Presenting the Mer Maemo Fedora Linux Mint remix project! I'll let you know when I'm done.	01:08
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autoguy	For toasters.	01:09
* rom1dep uses kde4.4 on a netbook and doesn't see a need for a overkill remix of the summer ubuntu version...		01:09
Jaffa	autoguy: But what about if I was a waffle man?	01:09
t-tan	Maemo + Moblin: Will it blend?	01:09
Jaffa	heh	01:09
autoguy	Well it's all configurable you see	01:09
iPeter-	Is Firefox better than MicroB, on Nokia N900, maemo 5?	01:10
rom1dep	iPeter-: no	01:10
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rom1dep	the current firefox is bad compared to MicroB	01:11
autoguy	Anything is better than MicroB	01:11
iPeter-	rom1dep: Yeah i tought so.	01:11
autoguy	Personally I like Midori but granted haven't tried fennec yet	01:11
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iPeter-	Is those apps whats on maemo.org/download on repos in App manager	01:12
autoguy	What's "the current firefox" - the fennec that was release some week(s) ago?	01:12
rom1dep	microB is the great ff + hildonised + made fingerfriendly... fennec is a 2nd hand firefox lacking of features and not that fun :)	01:12
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woglinde	autoguy yes	01:12
t-tan	I wonder how a N900 would blend: http://www.blendtec.com/willitblend/videos.aspx?video=iphone	01:13
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pupnik	OT: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100215.html Cassini Spacecraft Crosses Saturn's Ring Plane	01:13
rom1dep	autoguy: i guess firefox is the prod name, confusing he..	01:13
wiretapped	http://www.watchitshred.com/ > blendtec	01:13
wiretapped	http://www.ssiworld.com/watch/hard_drives.htm mmmm	01:14
ds3	I want netfront instead	01:14
autoguy	woglinde, rom1dep: OK, I guess I have to try it anyway. What I like about the microB alternative is better font wrapping on a lot of pages. If you zoom in on microB, you need to scroll left and right a lot of times.	01:14
rom1dep	iPeter-: you might have third party repos to activate	01:14
autoguy	ds3: how is netfront nowadays, is it keeping up with the times?	01:14
autoguy	ds3: from where do you have netfront experience?	01:15
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iPeter-	rom1dep: Like what repos, give urls + info in query, please (:	01:15
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woglinde	autoguy they just annouced new release yesterday	01:15
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autoguy	interesting	01:15
ds3	autoguy: it works... it is snappy	01:15
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rom1dep	iPeter-: just go to maemo.org and search for "repository" what I did the 1st day :)	01:15
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autoguy	s/font/text/	01:16
autoguy	bot doesn't search that far back huh? :)	01:17
iPeter-	rom1dep: Cant find anything ):	01:17
rom1dep	is someone went depth with ejre ? like running swing apps within hildon and overriding the "headless" state	01:17
rom1dep	iPeter-: http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page	01:18
CutMeOwnThroat	is there a way to check what consumes power on a N810? The battery essentially went empty within 5 hours of mostly being idle - GPS, Network, and probably Bluetooth all off, top shows activities in the 4% range for the most active maemo-launcher process... What should I look for?	01:21
rom1dep	CutMeOwnThroat: top ? powertop ?	01:21
ShadowJK	powertop isn't available on N810	01:23
CutMeOwnThroat	right... just noticed that	01:23
CutMeOwnThroat	and top doesn't show much.. as I said.. 4% or so on the #1 process	01:24
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lardman\|home	CutMeOwnThroat: was this pre-update?	01:24
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ds3	'	01:25
CutMeOwnThroat	what do you mean?	01:25
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lardman\|home	was that power-drain bug to do with the wifi looking like it was off, but not actually being?	01:25
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lardman\|home	CutMeOwnThroat: an update was released today	01:25
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CutMeOwnThroat	oh	01:25
lardman\|home	oh shit	01:25
lardman\|home	sorry	01:25
lardman\|home	N810	01:25
CutMeOwnThroat	:)	01:25
lardman\|home	ignore me	01:25
CutMeOwnThroat	\\ignore lardman\|home	01:25
* lardman\|home thinks he should just go to bed		01:25
CutMeOwnThroat	sX\\X//X	01:26
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lardman\|home	CutMeOwnThroat: did someone write a script/cron job that recorded the top output at intervals?	01:26
lardman\|home	even 4% cpu is quite a lot	01:26
lardman\|home	I know there was one written to track battery percentage	01:27
CutMeOwnThroat	but it was maemo-launcher which had the 4%	01:27
lardman\|home	CutMeOwnThroat: from memory, the browser would kill the battery	01:27
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lardman\|home	yeah maemo-launcher is a wrapper though I think isn't it?	01:28
lardman\|home	so which app was it actually?	01:28
CutMeOwnThroat	I must admit... not sure what its exact function is... the name certainly suggests so	01:28
CutMeOwnThroat	but the app would have its own top entry	01:28
lardman\|home	yeah	01:28
CutMeOwnThroat	guess I could compile powertop if its really useful	01:29
ShadowJK	well if you're looking at top in xterm, that 4% may very well be the x-terminal...	01:29
ds3	ah HA	01:29
ds3	I think I can setup DUN w/o NAT and still have it work as if there was NAT	01:30
ShadowJK	The kernel does not support powertop anyway	01:30
CutMeOwnThroat	this used to happen from time to time, but normally a reboot would fix it (I suspect something like gps was running and only not shown in the displays)	01:30
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CutMeOwnThroat	on previous occasions at least once I saw the CPU power up (err. "un-throttle") to full power every few seconds... doesn't seem to do this now	01:32
CutMeOwnThroat	ShadowJK, what kernel is needed? The debian package at least doesn't show any dependency on a certain kernel version	01:33
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CutMeOwnThroat	which might be an oversight	01:33
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ShadowJK	Even if it had been available on the N810 kernel, it's not compiled with it	01:34
ShadowJK	I think it turned up later anyway	01:34
CutMeOwnThroat	probably... diablo is based on etch, iirc	01:34
CutMeOwnThroat	no iotop either	01:35
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iPeter-	Fun, i bricked my N900 ):	01:36
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matthew-	fun, i got bloomberg working buahah	01:36
ShadowJK	It's very hard to brick it	01:36
iPeter-	Changed boot video, and now i got only black screen.	01:36
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Jaffa	iPeter-: Unlikely. You probably need to reflash (or enable RD mode, disable the lifeguard reset and SSH in to fix the problem)	01:36
lardman\|home	ShadowJK: cover with Portland cement, leave to dry :)	01:36
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CutMeOwnThroat	that should work!	01:37
iPeter-	Jaffa: Do you have time to help?	01:37
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CutMeOwnThroat	lardman\|home, ... except, possibly, if you're in Cologne ...	01:38
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Jaffa	iPeter-: Going to bed, I'm afraid.	01:38
lardman\|home	Cologne cement?	01:38
ShadowJK	Anyone looked at the "Nokia audio enhancements" (iirc) section in pa config...	01:39
lardman\|home	iPeter-: I'm sure if you tell the group someone will suggest something	01:39
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iPeter-	I did reboot again, it worked.	01:39
CutMeOwnThroat	somebody probably stole the cement, so it's mostly covered in sand... ( http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100213-25235.html )	01:39
ShadowJK	oh eek, I got a bunch of "Operation failed" banners doing upgrade to 1.1.1. 1) What operation failed? 2) Why is it still continuing.. or is it just stuck on the status bar?	01:40
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lardman\|home	that's the problem with having yearly floods!	01:40
ShadowJK	D:	01:40
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ShadowJK	oh the progress bar inched ahead :D	01:40
lardman\|home	ShadowJK: I got that too, no idea why	01:40
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iPeter-	Something didnt go so well, i changed my boot screen, and 1st boot, i got only black screen. 2nd boot, it laggs like hell.	01:42
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lardman\|home	anyone tried building an email client using tinymail?	01:43
SpeedEvil	top	01:43
lardman\|home	hey SpeedEvil	01:43
SpeedEvil	check it's not doing silly shit like trackerd often does.	01:43
SpeedEvil	yay	01:43
SpeedEvil	nope.	01:43
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* SpeedEvil doesn't really do email.		01:43
SpeedEvil	at least not on the n900	01:43
iPeter-	sgx_mirs uses 10% of cpu	01:44
lardman\|home	oh no, wasn't aimed at you specifically, was just saying hi	01:44
SpeedEvil	iPeter-: was it an image, or a video?	01:44
lardman\|home	iPeter-: also check thumbnailerd (or whatever it's called)	01:44
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SpeedEvil	I have vague recollections of malformatted videos that the hardware can't understand doing bad shit.	01:45
iPeter-	Hmph?	01:45
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iPeter-	switching it off again, lets look if it helps :I	01:45
GeneralAntilles	Here's a new way to track Talk:	01:45
GeneralAntilles	Pick your top 10 or 20 favorite users and only see threads they've participated in. :D	01:46
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CutMeOwnThroat	ShadowJK, you're right... powertop's been in debian only from lenny on, all its build-deps can be satisfied with etch-packages, though	01:47
iPeter-	Well i booted 3rd time, now it seems to work.	01:47
iPeter-	Odd.	01:47
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ShadowJK	debian isn't N810-aware	01:47
ShadowJK	sure you can build it in scratchbox or even on the device, but it wont do anything useful	01:50
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CutMeOwnThroat	no... but I thought diabolo package versions should be the same as in etch	01:50
LostyJai	hey guys	01:50
LostyJai	can i ask for a HUGE favour	01:50
LostyJai	who here has an n900?	01:50
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CutMeOwnThroat	yeah, he should send me one, too! :-P	01:50
ShadowJK	CutMeOwnThroat: they are not	01:51
iPeter-	LostyJai: What youre asking for?	01:51
LostyJai	i seemed to have accidently deleted my "/usr/share/themes/alpha" and "/user/share/themes/beta" folders... can someone upload them for me?	01:51
LostyJai	currently my n900 looks like windows 95	01:51
cehteh	mhm .. anyone tried to get the sdk working on a chroot on the device?	01:51
ShadowJK	CutMeOwnThroat: in general installing debian packages in Maemo isn't guaranteed to work or do anything sensible..	01:52
iPeter-	Sounds fun ^^	01:52
LostyJai	><	01:52
LostyJai	i need those theme folders back	01:52
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LostyJai	i can't use my n900!	01:52
cehteh	time for reflash? :)	01:52
LostyJai	can someone just upload them for me =(	01:53
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CutMeOwnThroat	ShadowJK, that's not what I meant... was just doing a rough check if I should expect problems building	01:53
iPeter-	I bet someone will upload it, i self dont have any place where to upload and i have to go sleep, actually i shoulve been sleeping now 2hours ago.	01:53
LostyJai	=(	01:53
LostyJai	alright, nite	01:53
LostyJai	thanks	01:53
iPeter-	Sorry, nights.	01:53
LostyJai	can upload to http://www.4filehosting.com/ or http://www.sendspace.com/	01:53
cehteh	LostyJai: lemme check .. but i am not really in moof for that	01:53
LostyJai	if u don't want to, that's fine	01:54
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Shapeshifter	So, I've written somethin in C, gtk and gstreamer and for some reason the gst bit stopped working after the update to 1.1.1 I'm not sure why. I had to update the rom using flasher instead of on-the-fly, and installed most of the stuff I had before through the auto-reinstall-thingy	01:54
pupnik	"I’ve been working at a small company that was basically doing video codecs for TI. The “DSP core” in that little TI chip can easily decode 1080p, at nowhere near 100% (it can do far more, in fact it can decode h264 and reencode as, say mpeg2 without getting to 100% usage)"	01:55
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GeneralAntilles	<3 rcadden	01:55
GeneralAntilles	He's so awesom.	01:55
GeneralAntilles	http://www.maemo-guru.com/2010/02/with-meego-i-go/	01:55
woglinde	pupnik yeah I loved this comment	01:56
Shapeshifter	it's basically souphttpsrc ! decodebin ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoxscale ! ximagesink. don't see why any of this should stop working.	01:56
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woglinde	on the theora dsp blog site	01:56
pupnik	it would sure be nice to be smart	01:56
w00t	GeneralAntilles: is that sarcasm?	01:57
w00t	GeneralAntilles: I hope it is. :P	01:57
CutMeOwnThroat	well... if it doesn't work out, we can always settle for being smartasses	01:57
woglinde	pupnik did I tell moblin now ships the iegd for poulsbo?	01:57
* w00t stops typing today before his fingers bleed		01:58
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pupnik	the whatnow woglinde ?	01:58
lardman\|home	LostyJai: still need alpha and beta?	01:58
GeneralAntilles	w00t, yes, sarcasm.	01:59
Shapeshifter	uh, and how do I get gst-launch onto my n900 anyway? >.> I'm surprised it's not there	01:59
Shapeshifter	and I can't find it through apt-cache	01:59
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GeneralAntilles	w00t, I have a long-standing bad relationship with that fellow.	01:59
lardman\|home	gst-tools	01:59
Shapeshifter	lardman\|home: thanks!	01:59
lardman\|home	or gstreamer-tools	01:59
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w00t	GeneralAntilles: let me find my reaction on another blog recycling that garbage	01:59
ShadowJK	pupnik, unfortunately the IVA part of it isn't documented :)	01:59
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w00t	That is all blown totally out of proportion and poorly researched, as much as I’d expect from a site like that frankly.	01:59
GeneralAntilles	w00t, he's an idiot, quite frankly.	02:00
w00t	g	02:00
woglinde	pupnik powervr kern in poulsbo is nearly the same as in omap3550	02:00
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ptl	errr	02:00
w00t	GeneralAntilles: yeah, I pretty much got an immediate reaction of "and nothing of value was lost"	02:00
ptl	just got notice of a new maemo 5 update on my N900	02:00
GeneralAntilles	w00t, it's not often that an avatar will tell you everything you need to know about a person.	02:00
GeneralAntilles	However, http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/126/918911.jpg	02:00
w00t	hahah.	02:01
ptl	but it says that to update I need to use the PC update application	02:01
pupnik	ohhh so poulsbo is something intel made, that might get us better / neater dsp stuff in meego woglinde ?	02:01
ptl	how should I update?	02:01
LostyJai	lardman\|home: YES YES I DO!!!	02:01
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ptl	which I don't have, I think	02:01
ptl	I use ubuntu linux	02:01
lardman\|home	LostyJai: oh good, was about to hit the sack thinking you'd left	02:01
ptl	can someone tell me what to do?	02:01
LostyJai	no no i'm here	02:01
LostyJai	><	02:01
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lardman\|home	:)	02:02
LostyJai	i'll be here for another 7 hours	02:02
LostyJai	=(	02:02
lardman\|home	ok, hang on a min or two	02:02
LostyJai	stupid work	02:02
LostyJai	sure thing man	02:02
LostyJai	REALLY REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!!!!	02:02
cehteh	..	02:02
range	pupnik: I thought poulsbo still needs closed drivers?	02:02
ShadowJK	ptl: there's probably a conflict with something you've installed from extras-devel or extras-testing	02:02
frals	~curse python-dbus	02:02
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, python-dbus !	02:02
cehteh	LostyJai: i have to setup my ssh key from the device on the server to upload it	02:03
ptl	ShadowJK: how do I discover what?	02:03
LostyJai	??	02:03
LostyJai	cehteh: don't worry dude, lardman is doing it for me	02:03
LostyJai	thanks	02:03
GeneralAntilles	<3 HTML5 YouTube	02:03
GeneralAntilles	h.264 it may be, but it aint Flash!	02:03
ShadowJK	ptl: btw the flashing software for linux is available at tablets-dev.nokia.com, as well as firmware images. it's not an update anymore, it wipes /	02:03
LostyJai	html5 youtube? where!?	02:03
pupnik	range: i just heard of paulsbro for the first time right now bro	02:04
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Shapeshifter	"a multipart demuxer plugin is required to play this stream but not installed" :( wth	02:04
GeneralAntilles	LostyJai, ther's an opt-in beta.	02:04
cehteh	ok then is stop	02:04
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GeneralAntilles	LostyJai, Google should take you to the opt-in page.	02:04
woglinde	pupnik hm intressting	02:04
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ShadowJK	ptl: probably apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade in xterm would help to narrow it down. I think there's even a wiki page with instructions	02:04
Aranel	how much free space do I need for upgrade?	02:04
ptl	ShadowJK: know the URL?	02:04
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ShadowJK	nope :(	02:05
ShadowJK	Aranel: someone said 45M	02:05
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody have any details on the new Ovi paid implementation, by the way?	02:05
LostyJai	thanks	02:05
Aranel	Thanks ShadowJK :)	02:06
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GeneralAntilles	Seeking on YouTube videos has never worked reliably for me until now.	02:06
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SpeedEvil	I find my strategy of seeking to avoid works.	02:07
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, g	02:08
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wazd	seriously, no Flash pros here? :(	02:08
ptl	ShadowJK: no conflicts :/	02:08
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ShadowJK	ptl: how much free space? df -h /	02:09
ptl	40.6M on /, 1.7 G on /home, 24.1 G in /home/user/MyDocs	02:09
xe2000	how can i inststall mozilla weave into microb 3.0?	02:10
LostyJai	so curious	02:10
LostyJai	how do you switch to html5 player instead of flash	02:10
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ptl	go to youtube.com/html5 and choose html 5	02:10
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SpeedEvil	Diddn't work for me	02:11
LostyJai	don't see the option	02:11
SpeedEvil	that is - it worked - but no codecs	02:11
cehteh	anyone found a changelog for 1.1.1?	02:11
GeneralAntilles	cehteh, it's on the wiki, just like PR1.1	02:11
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GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1	02:11
cehteh	thanks	02:12
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ShadowJK	http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting	02:12
dracflamloc	what causes the rootfs to fill up	02:12
SpeedEvil	Logs from the front camera when you're naked.	02:12
ShadowJK	installing crap from extras-devel or extras-testing for example	02:12
SpeedEvil	More seriously - installing stuff	02:12
dracflamloc	ok	02:13
SpeedEvil	And some application problems.	02:13
dracflamloc	is the memory used summary accurate in the app manager?	02:13
ShadowJK	ptl: ioquake?	02:13
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ShadowJK	dracflamloc: it's not helpful at all in figuring out what uses sopace on /	02:13
dracflamloc	ah	02:14
dracflamloc	so is there anything helpful there?	02:14
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dracflamloc	im at 90%	02:14
dracflamloc	and it wont let me upgrade	02:14
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SpeedEvil	dracflamloc: what does it say?	02:14
dracflamloc	not enough memory in target location	02:15
ShadowJK	Disable extras-devel and extras-testing in app manager, they consume about 18M just to have enabled iirc	02:15
dracflamloc	ah	02:15
ptl	ShadowJK: yes, I have it installed. Should I uninstall it?	02:16
ptl	and thanks for the URL	02:16
ptl	I'll check	02:16
dracflamloc	how much total space is in rootfs?	02:16
ShadowJK	ptl: says you need to unistall it	02:16
ShadowJK	dracflamloc: 256M	02:16
GeneralAntilles	Little less	02:17
GeneralAntilles	Minus kernel and bootloader	02:17
dracflamloc	so whats a 'good' amount to have free?	02:17
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ptl	lemme try it	02:18
SpeedEvil	IIRC it starts at 50M or so free	02:18
matthew-	any forum moderator here?	02:18
ShadowJK	Speedevil: nah I had almost 62M free earlier today	02:18
cehteh	only disabling some repos without uninstalling anything sovled it for me btw	02:18
matthew-	still no bloody update for people in the UK!	02:19
ShadowJK	Now at 57.9M free after 1.1.1 upgrade	02:19
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Shapeshifter	mereI: there's nothign exciting about the update	02:19
Shapeshifter	matthew-: ^	02:19
dracflamloc	bugfixes realted to battery are always exciting ;)	02:19
Shapeshifter	get it tomorrow or something	02:19
ShadowJK	matthew-, if you asking about forum moderators and the firmware upgrade are somehow related I'll be depressed	02:20
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matthew-	ShadowJK: No, i want to request a change of title of my post on forum	02:20
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ptl	that was it, thanks, ShadowJK :)	02:20
adalal	hey, how do you get the new pr 1.1.1 upgrade for maemo5?	02:20
matthew-	ShadowJK: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=531063 this one, get rid of the natively.	02:21
adalal	i ran an update, and it didn't show up?	02:21
ptl	that's weird, a game encumbering an OS upgrade	02:21
ptl	adalal: for me it did	02:21
ptl	maybe you removed/disabled some repository?	02:21
adalal	ptl: hm, i'll have a look again :S	02:21
ptl	downloading 16.2 MB	02:21
ptl	won't even make a security backup now	02:21
dracflamloc	ok so looks like i have 42mb free now	02:21
lardman\|home	night all	02:22
LostyJai	anyone downloaded that freeciv game?	02:22
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ptl	because my device is brand new... and I have even customized it properly	02:22
ptl	*haven't	02:22
cehteh	you could flash the new image then instead	02:23
adalal	ptl: running a backup first i suppose	02:23
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ptl	adalal: no, as it is new, I am not running a backup	02:23
ptl	there is no personal data yet on it	02:23
adalal	i suppose	02:23
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ptl	I really really really really really reall really like my N900. I sincerely hope meego does not screw up. It would be very easy for them to do that.	02:24
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cehteh	mhm ...the backup app is pluginable .. someone writing a dotfile backup would get some karma	02:24
adalal	backup app?	02:25
adalal	wait...	02:25
adalal	what are the updates like?	02:25
cehteh	this buildin backup thingy	02:25
adalal	any changes to that?	02:25
ptl	updating...	02:25
ptl	(holding breath)	02:26
adalal	lol k	02:26
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ptl	meego is very close to portuguese 'meigo', which means something like 'gay'. People laughed hard on brazilian forums.	02:27
ShadowJK	cehteh: apps can ask for their dotfiles to be backed up	02:27
ShadowJK	few do so	02:27
Scelt	ptl: meego reminds me of lego	02:27
ptl	rebooting device	02:27
cehteh	ShadowJK: is that noted in some configfile?	02:27
ptl	(heart beating rapidly)	02:27
ShadowJK	dunno	02:27
ptl	oh, the Nokia logo startup now has a progress bar	02:28
ptl	nice	02:28
ptl	:)	02:28
adalal	lol	02:28
Scelt	for the update only I think	02:28
cehteh	yes	02:28
timeless_mbp	ptl: that's just for the flashing phase	02:28
ptl	although it spoils the suspense of looking at that bright blue nokia logo.	02:28
ptl	timeless_mbp: oh, I didn't know, I thought it was just rebooting.	02:28
timeless_mbp	if you used a 770 or n8x0 you'd be more familiar with it	02:28
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timeless_mbp	there are 3 or so different band colors	02:29
timeless_mbp	dark blue, light blue, green	02:29
timeless_mbp	for the 770 iirc dark blue was the standard boot progress	02:29
timeless_mbp	and iirc green is generally the flashing color	02:29
timeless_mbp	iirc the dark blue was replaced by light blue w/ a later version	02:29
adalal	where are the backupfiles located on the n900?	02:29
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ptl	rebooting now	02:29
ptl	rebooted already???	02:30
timeless_mbp	adalal: either in ~/MyDocs or /media/mmc*	02:30
cehteh	adalal: in MyDocs or on the microsd	02:30
adalal	thank	02:30
ptl	that was blazingly fast	02:30
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ptl	'operating system updated successfully'	02:30
ptl	cool	02:30
* ptl calms down		02:30
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tgalal__	Anybody knows how to deal with EBookQuery objects???	02:32
cehteh	the 'cam can only write to FAT' isnt fixed .. doh	02:32
timeless_mbp	cehteh: i'm not quite sure why you'd expect it to be fixed quickly	02:32
timeless_mbp	especially not in a MINOR release	02:32
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* timeless_mbp isn't even sure if there's an entire team left		02:33
cehteh	i just have hopes	02:33
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cehteh	timeless_mbp: duh	02:33
timeless_mbp	and why would you expect it to be a top priority when it's absolutely clear that it's entirely unsupported	02:33
* timeless_mbp often hates end users		02:33
* cehteh hopes to get rid of fat someday		02:34
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adalal	i dont get it, how come mine keeps saying (no updates available)? i have the nokia system software updates repository enabled :S	02:37
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Aranel	ShadowJK: I have 45megs free now still cant upgrade :/	02:38
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ptl	why is Microsoft even trying to do something with windows mobile 7? It's already over for them.	02:38
GAN900	Aranel, because it says not enough space?	02:38
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* GAN900 did it with 40MB		02:38
woglinde	ptl they have the money	02:38
ptl	it does not get close to android, maemo/meego, iPhoneOS	02:38
glass	ptl: a company like microsoft would probably run a mobile os department just for the heck of it	02:38
ptl	woglinde: sometimes it is not enough	02:38
timeless_mbp	ptl: err	02:38
ptl	glass: that is the most probable reason, I think	02:38
* adalal is confused as to why I can't upgrade to the new PR		02:39
timeless_mbp	Nokia is busy trying to run two competing mobile platforms	02:39
timeless_mbp	both which are reinventing themselves	02:39
Aranel	GAN900: It says I should use my PC instead.	02:39
timeless_mbp	intel is trying to do one	02:39
timeless_mbp	google is trying to do one	02:39
timeless_mbp	apple is trying to do one	02:39
timeless_mbp	why shouldn't microsoft try to do one?	02:39
vmlemon_	Palm, Samsung too	02:39
timeless_mbp	at least, afaik microsoft isn't trying to do two anymore	02:39
vmlemon_	Not forgetting RIM...	02:39
* timeless_mbp hopes wince is dead		02:39
ptl	timeless_mbp: because they're too far behind	02:39
woglinde	qualcom too	02:39
timeless_mbp	ptl: very funny	02:39
glass	timeless_mbp: well, dunno how you count zune	02:39
woglinde	limo too	02:39
timeless_mbp	symbian is frozen and incredibly behind	02:40
vmlemon_	I can't see BREW lasting much longer	02:40
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timeless_mbp	glass: sorry. you're right, at least they're only trying to do 2, instead of 3 :)	02:40
woglinde	vmlemon g	02:40
LostyJai	date selection in maemo5, possible to show the week day?	02:41
cehteh	timeless: well no comment about samsung	02:41
glass	hehe	02:41
glass	samsung	02:41
LostyJai	ie: mon, tue, wed, thur, fri, sat, sun	02:41
matthew-	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=530957	02:41
cehteh	.. bebe baba bada?	02:41
matthew-	Voila !	02:41
glass	samsung does everything	02:41
vmlemon_	Just need HTC or LG to make a splash with a "We're going to make our own platform, and keep it all to ourselves" announcement	02:41
glass	they're whores	02:41
timeless_mbp	cehteh: an exhaustive list of mobile platforms is a waste of time :)	02:41
timeless_mbp	but the point is that it's definitely an open area	02:41
glass	thats their problem too, they do everything	02:41
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timeless_mbp	and if you have money to burn, why not?	02:41
timeless_mbp	ms has money to burn	02:41
cehteh	bada was its name or? it sux balls imo	02:41
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, yeah, that's not a space issue.	02:42
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, there's a package conflict.p	02:42
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glass	cehteh: and if you use a few samsung mobiles from past years it's quite obvious they got too many teams	02:42
* vmlemon_ ponders the fate of the various platforms based upon Nucleus and numerous other RTOSes		02:42
glass	even in non-smartphone	02:42
cehteh	i dint even looked at them	02:42
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matthew-	wazd: can you fix my post pls?	02:43
Aranel	GeneralAntilles: :/ do you have any idea how can I locate the faulty package?	02:43
cehteh	and i buyed a n900 because its open and free software (mosty) not because i am nokia fanboy	02:43
vmlemon_	Sure, it's not a smartphone platform, but I hear that the S40 folks aren't doing too well, what with talks of Nokia laying developers off...	02:43
wazd	matthew-: where?	02:43
matthew-	wazd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=530957	02:43
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, check the log from the menu.	02:43
matthew-	Subject	02:43
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, failing that apt-get may tell you.	02:43
glass	vmlemon_: well how many guys does s40 team really need?	02:43
matthew-	remobe the nativaly please.	02:43
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glass	vmlemon_: s40 team is doing brilliantly in sold phone numbers though	02:44
vmlemon_	It's been said that Nokia could still make a nice profit if they never added new features to S40, and just kept repackaging the hardware	02:44
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vmlemon_	Indeed	02:44
glass	vmlemon_: well check out nokias average device price	02:44
wazd	matthew-: no, sorry, I'm design only moderator	02:44
GeneralAntilles	matthew-, you can edit your own posts.	02:45
vmlemon_	Still, they're slowly adding bits and pieces on, and they renovated the Web browser recently	02:45
glass	yeh	02:45
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glass	it's the j2me vm i'd like to see some changes to in s40	02:45
matthew-	GeneralAntilles: I cant .. :)	02:45
matthew-	GeneralAntilles: I cant moderate the title of the hread.	02:46
matthew-	thread*	02:46
vmlemon_	Would be interesting to see Nokia deciding to "pull a Bada", and open the platform to native code, but I can never see that happening	02:46
Aranel	GeneralAntilles: log shows nothing. I dont know how to check it via apt.	02:46
ptl	this ICA client on N900 is wonderful	02:46
ptl	if I only could use it.	02:46
timeless_mbp	?	02:46
ptl	at my job the wireless is LEAP	02:46
ptl	so i can't.	02:46
vmlemon_	It'd probably cannibalise their other platforms, too	02:46
timeless_mbp	LEAP?	02:46
matthew-	ptl: :( Sorry	02:46
glass	vmlemon_: i foresee symbian hitting sub 100$'s	02:46
ptl	WPA2 with LEAP	02:46
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, apt-get dist-upgrade from console as root and copy the output to a pastebin.	02:47
ptl	Cisco proprietary EAP extension, timeless_mbp	02:47
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, but don't run it yet.	02:47
matthew-	ptl: I only need it for running bloomberg ;d	02:47
timeless_mbp	yum	02:47
vmlemon_	Cisco-proprietary Wi-Fi security protocol	02:47
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ptl	matthew-: I need that for my job too...	02:47
tgalal__	wth is EBookQuery useful for?!	02:47
matthew-	ptl: bloomberg?:)	02:47
ptl	ICA Client	02:47
matthew-	ah	02:47
matthew-	ok.	02:47
ptl	I don't even know what bloomberg is	02:47
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vmlemon_	News and financial agency	02:48
timeless_mbp	bloomberg = business news	02:48
matthew-	ptl: well the ICA Client does work.	02:48
matthew-	yeah, stock quotes	02:48
matthew-	company info etc..	02:48
matthew-	awesome thing.	02:48
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Aranel	GeneralAntilles: http://pastebin.com/d42cdabfb	02:50
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Aranel	GeneralAntilles: seems like its related with decoders pack?	02:51
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, weird. OK, apt-get remove decoders-support	02:51
GeneralAntilles	Or, actually, you can remove it from h-a-m too	02:51
GeneralAntilles	Then you should be able to upgrade without issue.	02:51
ptl	adalal: got your update yet?	02:51
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SWFu64	Still no update in the UK here	02:52
matthew-	ptl: I didnt in the uk	02:53
matthew-	;]	02:53
matthew-	pretty annoying	02:53
SpeedEvil	None here - UK	02:53
SpeedEvil	IIRC it took a couple od days last time	02:53
GeneralAntilles	I'm pretty sure UK falls behind most of Asian for support.	02:53
SpeedEvil	so friday?	02:53
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GeneralAntilles	s/Asian/Asia/	02:53
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: I'm pretty sure UK falls behind most of Asia for support.	02:53
wazd	wee, I've found Flash Guru :)	02:53
matthew-	SpeedEvil: no no, it was same day last time.	02:53
SWFu64	The last update I got pretty fast	02:53
wazd	Beware!	02:53
SpeedEvil	Assuming same rollout schedule	02:53
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SpeedEvil	Maybe I upgraded late	02:53
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Aranel	GeneralAntilles: removed, now trying again :) thanks	02:55
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, I dunno how we managed to regress in the area of h-a-m error reporting. . . .	02:55
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: did you see the ham button dance?	02:56
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, not as far as I'm aware.	02:56
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ptl	I am in Brazil and I got the update	02:56
Aranel	GeneralAntilles: still does not install.	02:56
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ptl	and N900 isn't even sold in Brazil	02:56
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, same reason?	02:56
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Aranel	GeneralAntilles: keeps asking for PC flashing instead. tried dist-up again and: 37 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.	02:57
GeneralAntilles	Hrm	02:58
ptl	Aranel: removed ioquake3?	02:58
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cibi	043f04400438043204350442 043204410435043c	02:58
GeneralAntilles	Um, well, if you can symlink the apt cache then you can just use apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade.	02:58
cibi	043a0442043e 04420430 044204430442 043504410442044c ?	02:58
cibi	Hello ?>	02:58
cibi	hi all ?>	02:58
ptl	lots of control characters in cibi lines	02:58
ptl	can't see any color or something	02:58
Aranel	ptf: nope, ill try now :)	02:58
cibi	no	02:58
cibi	ss	02:59
cibi	Can you help me ?	02:59
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GeneralAntilles	Aranel, if ioquake3 doesn't help, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5746 for details on symlinking.	02:59
povbot`	Bug 5746: symlink /var/cache/apt/archives to /home/apt-archives	02:59
cibi	is it only ENGLISH ?	02:59
GeneralAntilles	cibi, yes.	02:59
cibi	im first time her	03:00
cibi	what this room about ?> Infromatik ?	03:00
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cibi	<GeneralAntilles>	03:01
SpeedEvil	cibi: A phone OS.	03:01
cibi	a ?	03:01
cibi	pardone ?	03:01
Aranel	ok. thanks :) I hate this rootfs space problems, arent they considered as bugs?	03:01
SpeedEvil	cibi: A mobile phone operating system.	03:02
cibi	ohh thx	03:02
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, PR1.2 should be optifying a lot of built-in stuff.	03:02
cibi	but how can i go other room to Computers ?>	03:02
cibi	<SpeedEvil>	03:02
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cibi	computer help like this	03:02
wiretapped	cibi: how did you get here?	03:03
Aranel	^^ now I'm more interested about next PR	03:03
Aranel	:)	03:03
cibi	i dont know lol	03:03
Lumpio-	Caution: this is the internet	03:03
wiretapped	is there a changelog for today's update?	03:03
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cibi	i need help eh	03:04
Lumpio-	You may be charged for long distance	03:04
cibi	im from Portugal but im Russian lol	03:04
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GeneralAntilles	wiretapped, wiki, same as PR1.1	03:04
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Aranel	GeneralAntilles and ptf: after removing ioquake, now it seems its OK. I don't have any idea why a game cause a firmware update fail, anyway if it works its OK :)	03:05
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GeneralAntilles	Aranel, PR1.1.1 adds GLES 1.1	03:06
ptl	ptf?	03:06
ptl	lol	03:06
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, which may cause weirdness with ioquake3's packaging	03:06
ptl	Aranel: that was my doubt too, it's weird :)	03:06
Aranel	ptl* :P sorry. xchat on N900 sometimes gets uncomfortable.	03:07
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GeneralAntilles	Aranel, you can add tab.	03:07
Aranel	how? theres no HW button	03:08
GeneralAntilles	Aranel, see the comments on http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/12/17/remapping-the-n900-arrow-keys/	03:08
ptl	wow, you really love your N900	03:09
ptl	I used that blog post to add accents to my N900	03:09
ptl	I'm thinking about adding ce-cedilla now	03:09
Aranel	thanks again :) I'll work on it after PR update.	03:09
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* djdm is xchatting on his N900 too		03:11
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zelrikriando	hello	03:22
adalal	anybody know why an n900 wouldn't update to 1.1.1?	03:22
adalal	hello	03:22
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GeneralAntilles	adalal, remove ioquake3?	03:22
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adalal	GeneralAntilles: i doubt i've ever installed that, and even then, the update isn't showing up	03:24
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: do we have a list of things known to cause conflicts?	03:24
timeless_mbp	it should be on a wiki	03:24
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, I think there's a list for PR1.1	03:24
GeneralAntilles	Dunno how much applies to PR1.1.1	03:24
GeneralAntilles	adalal, UK?	03:24
adalal	yes	03:24
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timeless_mbp	UK is "special"	03:24
GeneralAntilles	adalal, then the waiting game is what you're playing	03:24
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timeless_mbp	people shouldn't use the UK image	03:25
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timeless_mbp	it's designed to give them pain	03:25
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adalal	GeneralAntilles: how come there's a waiting game?	03:25
GeneralAntilles	For some reason Nokia UK is really far behind anywhere else.	03:25
timeless_mbp	just backup everything and reflash w/ the normal universal build	03:25
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adalal	reflash my device?	03:25
timeless_mbp	s/backup/back up/	03:25
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: just back up everything and reflash w/ the normal universal build	03:25
adalal	hmm	03:25
adalal	what are the difference?	03:26
timeless_mbp	adalal: afaik there is no reason to use the uk version	03:26
timeless_mbp	sadly, i have no idea what's different about the uk version	03:26
timeless_mbp	other than it's "special"	03:26
zelrikriando	is it easy to stop processes with maemo?	03:26
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adalal	zelrikriando: using pkill yes	03:27
adalal	or killall	03:27
timeless_mbp	zelrikriando: eh?	03:27
timeless_mbp	someone even wrote a graphical task manager	03:27
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timeless_mbp	it was moderately shiny	03:27
* timeless_mbp isn't sure where they put it		03:27
zelrikriando	I am asking because I am having difficulties with Android	03:27
zelrikriando	so I was wondering if maemo was better :p	03:27
timeless_mbp	zelrikriando: w/ maemo there are only two reasons not to kill things	03:28
timeless_mbp	1. if they're stuck in a kernel lock (eNotOurFault)	03:28
timeless_mbp	2. if there's a lifeguard applied and you kill it enough times in a short enough period, the lifeguard will reboot your device	03:28
zelrikriando	ok	03:29
zelrikriando	sounds like the same deal as android	03:29
GeneralAntilles	Stopping processes is as simple as "stop <process>" as root.	03:30
adalal	mm, are there any risks of permanently bricking the device?	03:30
zelrikriando	no	03:30
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timeless_mbp	zelrikriando: triggering the lifeguard takes a lot of effort	03:30
zelrikriando	but if for instance I disable google talk, the app market doesnt work anymore	03:30
timeless_mbp	and the kernel issue applies to any platform	03:30
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timeless_mbp	bsd, winnt, linux	03:30
GeneralAntilles	zelrikriando, yeah, no, there's no silly Nokia services integration shit like that.	03:31
zelrikriando	ok	03:31
zelrikriando	That s good news	03:31
zelrikriando	Android has been pissing me off lately	03:32
zelrikriando	I think I ll try another kind of phone next	03:32
vmlemon_	Android sucks, full stop. At least of the analysis at http://dw2blog.com/2010/02/10/the-mobile-multitasking-advantage/ is anything to go by...	03:32
brady47	well, the ovi store doesn't work in the first place so you don't have to worry about messing it up killing processes :)	03:33
zelrikriando	Well I am in favor of multitasking though	03:33
zelrikriando	brady47: lol	03:33
zelrikriando	What I am not in favor is mandatory updates that unroot my phone Oo	03:34
GeneralAntilles	zelrikriando, no worries there.	03:34
zelrikriando	and almost bricks it on the way	03:34
vmlemon_	Was amusing to hear that Microsoft finally hobbled their OS as far as multitasking is concerned. I always thought that would be a signature feature for them...	03:35
brady47	yeah, I saw some blog post Jobs is now blocking hackers from itunes store !	03:35
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: does N900 work on Rogers?	03:35
zelrikriando	Oh Rogers	03:35
zelrikriando	those *****	03:35
zelrikriando	All the pain I have is because of them I am sure	03:35
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, think so, but don't think there's any carrier in Canada that uses the right 3G frequencies.	03:35
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: ... so no	03:35
luke-jr	how could it work if they don't use the right frequencies?	03:36
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: i should know in july :)	03:36
brady47	no 3g, just gsm	03:36
brady47	just gprs	03:36
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, WCDMA is usually different from GSM.	03:36
luke-jr	timeless_mbp: Rogers recently shoved an "update" to their Android users that prevents rooting them	03:36
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, so it'll work for voice and EDGE, but not HSPA.	03:36
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: nice of them	03:36
zelrikriando	luke-jr: I am a victim too	03:37
ptl	I am switching m operator because of that too	03:37
luke-jr	don't think anything stops them from doing the same to Maemo/N900	03:37
ptl	*my	03:37
chaoyi	anyone has used dbus-send on N900? I am new to dbus and couldn't figure out what I did wrong.	03:37
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: who cares?	03:37
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, um, does Rogers sell the N900?	03:37
timeless_mbp	last i checked, roger's data plans were not particularly friendly	03:37
zelrikriando	There is no such thing as switching operator in Canada	03:37
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: doesn't matter; they locked all phones, not just ones they subsidized	03:37
timeless_mbp	chaoyi: did you --print-reply?	03:37
zelrikriando	They are all partners	03:37
wazd	damn, it's so uncomfortable to watch olimpics in here :(	03:37
chaoyi	timeless_mbp http://pastebin.com/m7cfcf472	03:37
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GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, um, how does that work?	03:38
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chaoyi	timeless_mbp: i looked at the documentation at http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/bluez/network-api.txt	03:38
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, if you bring your own SIm and get your updates from Nokia, where does Rogers come into the picture?	03:38
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: they blocked them from using the network unless you applied it	03:38
luke-jr	at least, that's my understanding of it	03:39
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, yeah, FUD.	03:39
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, what you're claiming is possible makes no sense.	03:39
luke-jr	sure it does	03:39
zelrikriando	Well that s what they did to android at least	03:39
zelrikriando	not sure they can do the same to maemo	03:39
ptl	now meego	03:39
luke-jr	if your phone doesn't send some packet within a minute, it can boot you; then have the magic packet sent by a known-locked firmware	03:39
ptl	does maemo changing to meego makes it more probably that they do that?	03:39
luke-jr	zelrikriando: I don't see what would stop them	03:40
zelrikriando	luke-jr: I think they can only do that to the phones they sell	03:40
GeneralAntilles	ptl, no.	03:40
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zelrikriando	If you bring your own phone, they have no right on it	03:40
SpeedEvil	zelrikriando: they can choose to do it to any phone, if they choose to, and the regulator will let them.	03:40
luke-jr	zelrikriando: no right to, but when has that ever stopped a company?	03:40
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SpeedEvil	zelrikriando: unless they are under some obligation to provide internet access.	03:40
SpeedEvil	<	03:41
zelrikriando	SpeedEvil: that s what is pissing me off	03:41
zerojay	luke-jr: I have used my N900 for months on Rogers... so what are you talking about?	03:41
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zelrikriando	They are all 'regulated'	03:41
luke-jr	zerojay: I'm talking about theory.	03:41
zerojay	I'm just catching up on the conversation.	03:41
zelrikriando	basically a monopoly	03:41
luke-jr	zerojay: in theory, CompanyX could require you to install a package that locks you out of root, and rosegarden you until you do	03:42
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zelrikriando	luke-jr: that is if you sign their EULA	03:42
zerojay	luke-jr: How did Rogers lock all phones, not just those they subsidized?	03:43
luke-jr	zerojay: something like that, I think	03:43
zerojay	luke-jr: They don't.	03:43
zerojay	My cell phone gaming company has had about 400 different phones from all over the world on 4 different sim cards over 3 years. They don't care.	03:43
zerojay	Lots of fun paying over $4000 in data charges.	03:44
zerojay	Per month.	03:44
woglinde	good nite	03:44
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zelrikriando	zerojay: I am pretty sure they can unroot a phone that s rooted though	03:45
zelrikriando	they did that to all their HTC Magic customers	03:45
zerojay	zelrikriando: Unrooted them remotely?	03:45
zelrikriando	zerojay: not remotely	03:45
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zelrikriando	but enforcing a patch	03:45
zelrikriando	by disabling the 3G	03:46
zerojay	I don't see the problem there.	03:46
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zelrikriando	zerojay: " You apply patch or no more connexion for you"	03:46
GeneralAntilles	zelrikriando, to people who bought them subsidized?	03:46
zelrikriando	GeneralAntilles: yeah	03:46
zerojay	Again, I don't see the problem with that as long as you're using their service with their terms and their subsidized phones.	03:46
GeneralAntilles	zelrikriando, sounds like their own damn fault, then.	03:47
luke-jr	zelrikriando: people who bought them non-subsidized were immune?	03:47
zelrikriando	zerojay: That's the reason I am looking for unlocked phones that are no subsidized :)	03:47
zerojay	Nothing stopping Rogers from saying it's a security fix, because technically, it is.	03:47
zelrikriando	luke-jr: I dont know about that	03:47
zerojay	And since it's their own phone... I don't see the issue.	03:48
zelrikriando	I think they ll have more trouble for an unsubsidized phone	03:48
zelrikriando	because they cant say it s their software	03:48
luke-jr	they can't say it's theirs even for a subsidized phone AFAIK	03:48
zerojay	It's still their network.	03:48
luke-jr	they sold it to you at a lower price in exchange for a service contract	03:49
ml-mobile	mmm, customer abuse	03:49
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, and special vendor software.	03:49
luke-jr	you're obliged to keep service with them, but AFAIK you still own it	03:49
zelrikriando	I dont think it s Android the issue	03:49
zelrikriando	the Nexus One is rooted by default	03:49
zelrikriando	you can unlock it in the bootloader	03:49
luke-jr	forcing a patch by denying service arguably lets you terminate the contract w/o fines, assuming they didn't include it originally	03:49
zerojay	All i know is that I walked directly downstairs from my work office in Quebec to Rogers, told the guy there straight out that I was going to be using an unlocked Nokia prototype and the dude didn't blink once and never said there was any issues.	03:50
luke-jr	zerojay: that matters how? XD	03:50
zelrikriando	zerojay: I tend to agree with you. I think luke-jr is generalizing :p	03:51
luke-jr	customer-facing people tend to not have any authority	03:51
zerojay	It matters quite a bit when you're saying what you are.	03:51
zerojay	Rogers did fuck me over though.	03:52
zerojay	They had a promo for their rocketstick for 2 years and I decided to grab it and suddenly saw that my account online was saying that the contract was for 3 years, not 2.	03:52
zelrikriando	well if you sign for 2 years you can show them the freaking contract	03:53
* luke-jr concurs		03:53
zerojay	I called them up and the people that I talked to all said "wow, that's really weird... and that shouldn't be right, but we can't do anything about it if you signed it."	03:53
zelrikriando	if you sign on paper that is	03:53
go1dfish	how much space do I have to free on / to do this new update?	03:53
* luke-jr thinks it's ridiculous how people just give in to companies that abuse them		03:53
zelrikriando	Next time, I ll just crossed out what I dont like in the EULA	03:54
zelrikriando	if I have to sign an EULA again that is	03:54
AlMehdi	do they enforce the patch on all the phones?	03:54
zerojay	My copy of the contract said 2 years, Rogers claimed theirs says 3.	03:54
luke-jr	zerojay: you have your copy?	03:54
ml-mobile	goldfish: ~16MB, you can disable the extras repos temporarily for easy space	03:54
zerojay	Guy at the local Rogers store said that even if I get stuck with 3 years, I should at least complain so that I GET something for that extra year in some way.	03:55
zerojay	luke-jr: Yeah, I do.	03:55
go1dfish	ml-mobile: hmm I have like 30 free and it's saying I don't have enough mem in target location	03:55
zerojay	Apparently doesn't matter.	03:55
luke-jr	zerojay: then ignore them and threaten to sue for harassment if they don't stfu?	03:55
zerojay	luke-jr: How are they harassing me?	03:55
luke-jr	zerojay: if they don't harrass you, then what's the problem? :p	03:55
zelrikriando	lol what	03:56
zelrikriando	my boss was so smart	03:56
zelrikriando	he bought an ipod touch	03:56
zelrikriando	and jailbroke it	03:56
zelrikriando	and that was it	03:56
zerojay	Sounds dumb to me.	03:56
luke-jr	just call them up sometime around 2 years and tell them you won't be renewing your subscription	03:56
zelrikriando	no phone plan	03:56
zelrikriando	:D	03:56
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luke-jr	zelrikriando: ... why?	03:56
zerojay	zelrikriando: So... he's.. enjoying being useless when mobile?	03:57
ml-mobile	ipod touches don't have phone plan...	03:57
zerojay	ml-mobile: Yes, we know.	03:57
* luke-jr can't think of anything he could possibly do with an iPod Touch		03:57
zelrikriando	zerojay: he just picks whatever wifi he can get	03:58
go1dfish	ml-mobile: disabling extras seemed to do the trick though, thanks much	03:58
zerojay	zelrikriando: Wow.... that's terrible.	03:58
zelrikriando	zerojay: I think he doesnt like phones in general though	03:58
zerojay	I don't in general either.	03:58
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luke-jr	me either	03:58
luke-jr	lol	03:58
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zerojay	I hated phones with a passion and then I started making games for them and hearing alarms going off all day long.	03:59
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zelrikriando	I am not sure what my next phone will be	04:00
luke-jr	I used to use a calling card with some VoIP toy that could make free 800 # calls <.<	04:00
* GeneralAntilles tries to decide what to eat for second dinner.		04:00
luke-jr	for my home phone	04:00
zelrikriando	but I hope I can get a good unlocked phone in Canada	04:00
luke-jr	zelrikriando: Nexus Two with 100% custom firmware?	04:00
zelrikriando	not sure about Google	04:01
GeneralAntilles	N900!	04:01
zelrikriando	They broke my heart	04:01
zelrikriando	lol	04:01
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zelrikriando	GeneralAntilles: a new phone might come up before I change my phone	04:01
* luke-jr doesn't care about the company, just hardware		04:01
zelrikriando	I ll keep what I have until my contract almost expire	04:02
zelrikriando	or until Rogers pisses me off enough	04:02
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go1dfish	is there a changelog for this firmware anywhere yet?	04:03
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GeneralAntilles	go1dfish, on the wiki, like the last one.	04:03
zerojay	go1dfish: Get on TMO. It's all there.	04:03
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1	04:03
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles		04:03
go1dfish	thanks	04:03
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo \| http://maemo.org/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org/ \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ \| Please join #meego for MeeGo related questions \| http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg \| http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1"		04:03
zerojay	Isn't Bell supposed to be setting up the right 3g frequencies supported by the N900 soon?	04:03
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles		04:03
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go1dfish	yeah I was looking on TMO, but all I was seeing was the 800 post long 'announcement' that it existed	04:04
pupnik_	http://www.cyber1.org/ <<< we totally need this awesomeness for maemo :) first multiuser graphical computer system	04:04
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crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: I'm online, have the day off work (our floor is flooded)	04:14
crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: I'll take it from here	04:14
lpotter	yay! for floods!	04:16
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, take what? :P	04:16
crashanddie_	the channel	04:16
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zerojay	lol	04:18
crashanddie_	zerojay: shush, it's mine	04:19
GeneralAntilles	zerojay is just laughing because he's rigged it to blow!	04:19
* GeneralAntilles runs!		04:19
* crashanddie_ puts on his fart-brigade uniform		04:19
crashanddie_	Don't you dare blow on me, son!	04:20
lpotter	dont worry. it wont blow, there's too much water apparently	04:21
matthew-	any football fan?	04:21
crashanddie_	matthew-: you?	04:21
matthew-	crashanddie_: any other one?	04:21
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crashanddie_	matthew-: I'm sure there's a lot of football fans, maybe just not here?	04:22
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GeneralAntilles	I'm a Bucs fan.	04:22
* GeneralAntilles grins.		04:22
ml-mobile	handegg	04:22
lpotter	i find australian rules amusing	04:22
crashanddie_	~ml-mobile++	04:22
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crashanddie_	KamuiN900: I'm afraid you're going to have to leave	04:24
crashanddie_	KamuiN900: N900 devices are no longer tolerated in this channel	04:24
crashanddie_	KamuiN900: Only MeeGo-software is now authorised to join this channel	04:24
KamuiN900	!!!!!!! :)	04:24
KamuiN900	crashanddie_: its too soon for that	04:24
KamuiN900	you are hurting my feelings	04:24
matthew-	;)Tatyana: says: (02:24:18)	04:24
matthew-	as i said, i do make me laugh	04:24
matthew-	uh	04:25
matthew-	not this	04:25
matthew-	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGHLUc7ZmAs	04:25
matthew-	this	04:25
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, so, /mode +b #maemo !@* ?	04:25
luke-jr	lol	04:25
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crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: nope	04:25
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie_		04:25
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: no wait	04:25
luke-jr	I am using MeeGo on EFIKA	04:25
luke-jr	<.<	04:25
*** crashanddie_ sets mode: +b !n900@		04:25
crashanddie_	there you go :)	04:25
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kamui900	:-D	04:25
*** crashanddie_ sets mode: -b !n900@		04:25
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GeneralAntilles	Evil, evil.	04:26
luke-jr	shouldn't that be !user@ ?	04:26
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie_		04:26
crashanddie_	luke-jr: it was on purpose	04:26
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kamui900	you guys are taking the meego news so well	04:26
kamui900	im still on the verge of tear	04:26
kamui900	s	04:26
luke-jr	kamui900: in my case, I never liked Maemo	04:26
crashanddie_	kamui900: I had a hard time with it at first, but once Quim explained a few things it soon was a lot better	04:26
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luke-jr	if I was angry, it would be because I thought Nokia was trying to shed the bad reputation Maemo has	04:27
luke-jr	but that would be naive since nobody actually gives Maemo the bad reputation it deserves :P	04:27
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kamui900	how many firmware releases for the n900 have there been	04:34
kamui900	2?	04:34
kamui900	or 3	04:34
crashanddie_	Depends if you count pre-prod devices or not	04:34
crashanddie_	but public? 2	04:34
crashanddie_	or 3	04:34
crashanddie_	can't remember	04:35
* crashanddie_ facepalms about his uselessness		04:35
GeneralAntilles	42-11, 51-1, 3-8	04:35
crashanddie_	are those football scores?	04:35
GeneralAntilles	I can't name the Diablo release numbers anymore, however.	04:35
crashanddie_	or very, very long and weirdly counted tennis games?	04:36
kamui900	thanks ga. is 3-8 not ota able?	04:36
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, could be.	04:36
GeneralAntilles	kamui900, where are you located.	04:36
kamui900	us of a	04:36
GeneralAntilles	kamui900, should be, I did mine a few hours ago.	04:36
kamui900	hmm didnt show in my updates list	04:36
kamui900	ill keep trying	04:37
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crashanddie_	I killed my microusb charger	04:37
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crashanddie_	Need to charge through USB...	04:37
GeneralAntilles	Fail	04:38
GeneralAntilles	kamui900, if that fails, might try an apt-get install mp-fremantle-gener-pr.	04:38
kamui900	found it :)	04:38
crashanddie_	http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/2/2/633692057194761860-handegg.jpg	04:38
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, hey, it aint playing around. You don't see soccer players retiring with dementia. :P	04:40
crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: dementia is caused by the ridiculous amounts of steroids they pour in their SuckaFlakes	04:40
crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: Rugby is ten times the game American Football will ever be	04:40
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, if your theory were correct, then MLB players would be getting it, too.	04:41
crashanddie_	and what the fuck, iPhoto launches when I plugin my n900?	04:41
crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: MLB?	04:41
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, you can turn that off in settings.	04:41
GeneralAntilles	baseball	04:41
crashanddie_	Listen, the world had very good sports to begin with	04:42
crashanddie_	Football (or Soccer), Criquet, and Rugby	04:42
GeneralAntilles	Meh, I didn't grow up on any of those.	04:42
crashanddie_	you idiots came around and just threw Football out of the window, and modified Rugby to Football, and Criquet to Baseball	04:42
crashanddie_	Baseball is criquet without the rebound on the ground, no that would be too complicated, no little wood chips behind the batter, because that's too hard to aim at, you make the bat round, because it's a lot easier to hit, and you make the ball bigger because it's a lot easier to see	04:44
crashanddie_	oh, and you get those big fail gloves to protect your petite prestine hands	04:44
crashanddie_	Same with rugby, you sew them until they bloody armoured tanks. I mean, why the hell did you even bother sending mechs during 2nd world war, you should've just sent football players	04:45
crashanddie_	/rant	04:45
GeneralAntilles	I see I've touched a nerve. :D	04:48
crashanddie_	"All pretence has been abandonned, as both teams take to the field, naked, covered in lubricant to the sound of pounding techno"	04:49
crashanddie_	And that is exactly what American Football is: a travesty of sport, created for keeping the idle masses contempt and braindead	04:50
kamui	anyone know how to force apt to install a package that has unmet deps?	04:51
kamui	specifically I want maemo-optify	04:51
kamui	it needs a different version of perl than is installed	04:51
kamui	but I suspect the actual version here doesn't matter	04:51
ptl	apt-get --force-all	04:51
ptl	apt-get --force-all install package	04:51
kamui	suite	04:51
ptl	oh	04:51
ptl	no	04:51
ptl	it's dpkg --force-all	04:51
ptl	you have to do the following:	04:51
ptl	apt-get download package	04:51
ptl	then	04:51
kamui	crap, I see	04:51
ptl	go to /var/cache/apt/archives	04:51
kamui	then dpkg to install it	04:51
ptl	then dpkg --force-all	04:51
ptl	yes	04:51
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crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: I'm pretty sure these days we could have a guy being broadcast on every channel, wearing green trousers and a yellow shirt, just shaking a keyring in front of the camera, going "look at the shiny shiny", and people would just go "Oh look `$country has talent` is on, let's get some crisps, NOM NOM NOM"	04:52
ptl	but in these cases I get a recipe where, if I am sure about the safety of the operation, I can open a deb package, change its dependencies, and repackage it	04:52
ptl	it's just a couple commands, want it?	04:52
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, nobody eats crisps in the US.	04:52
GeneralAntilles	GTFO.	04:52
crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: I didn't say US, I said $country you $count	04:53
GeneralAntilles	lol	04:53
crashanddie_	anyway, time for cigarette and food, talk later	04:53
ds3	should be times for a 'f*g' and food? ;)	04:54
ds3	afterall, weren't we going for localization of english?	04:54
GeneralAntilles	ds3, he's been really hung up on the homosexual stuff lately.	04:54
ds3	:D	04:54
ds3	oh I see Ogg is STILL not supported out of the box	04:55
GeneralAntilles	It should be in Harmattan	04:56
GeneralAntilles	and adding support is as simple as installing one package from Extras, so, meh.	04:56
ds3	and that works seemlessly now?	04:56
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ds3	same can be said of that on the N800 but that doesn't quite work with the internal media player	04:56
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GeneralAntilles	ds3, CPU usage is a bit high as of yet, but otherwise, yes.	04:57
ds3	oh nice	04:57
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ds3	is the N900 setup so that "nokia" or its approved proxies can shove updates down your unit w/o you knowing?	04:58
GeneralAntilles	No	04:58
kejen_	hi, does anyone here know if it is possible to connect to jabber chats via conversations?	04:58
GeneralAntilles	At least, no on any unlocked unit	04:58
GeneralAntilles	Dunno about the locked ones	04:58
kejen_	i can do it with pidgin, but can't figure it out with conversations	04:58
GeneralAntilles	But, then, who cares about those? :P	04:58
ds3	for the US, there aren't any locked units available (yet?)	04:58
GeneralAntilles	kejen_, add the account and connect?	04:59
GeneralAntilles	ds3, no, only one I know of is from Vodafone.	04:59
kamui	kejen, probably have to install the conversations plugins pack	04:59
kamui	to get jabber working	04:59
GeneralAntilles	kamui, Jabber is supported out of the box.	04:59
ds3	same with AIM?	04:59
kejen_	i can get on jabber, but cant join a chat root	04:59
kejen_	room	04:59
kamui	GeneralAntilles, probably right	04:59
kamui	definately right in fact	04:59
GeneralAntilles	ds3, no, but Telepathy Extras are in Extras and work fine.	04:59
kamui	kejen: there's a convo rooms plugin, never tried it though	05:00
ds3	so other then full size SD slots and USB host, what else do I lose coming from the N800 then?	05:00
kamui	I believe it allows for group chats and jabber chat rooms	05:00
kejen_	i did install the .8 plugins with hopes	05:00
ds3	it sounds like all the software issues are addressable with extras	05:00
kejen_	ahh, will check out the rooms plugin	05:00
kejen_	thanks	05:00
GeneralAntilles	ds3, a hardware escape key and fullscreen key.	05:00
GeneralAntilles	ds3, for the most part.	05:01
ds3	hw escape key?	05:01
GeneralAntilles	The one under the dpad	05:01
ds3	I can do w/o the fullscreen key	05:01
GeneralAntilles	The back one is just escape	05:01
ds3	oh the twisted arrow thingie	05:01
ptl	btw	05:01
ds3	so much for running vi on a terminal there then :D	05:01
ptl	are the keys like the power button and volume button recognisable as 'keys' under X too?	05:02
GeneralAntilles	ds3, there's a soft escape on the terminal toolbar	05:02
ptl	are they remappable?	05:02
ptl	the buttons off the keyboard	05:02
GeneralAntilles	ds3, and you can bind it to something on the keyboard if you want.	05:02
GeneralAntilles	ptl, yes, yes.	05:02
ds3	so it is not fatal	05:02
GeneralAntilles	ds3, host is really the only fatal thing.	05:02
ds3	and the LCD is the N810 one (transreflective, works in the Sun)?	05:02
GeneralAntilles	It's a new one	05:03
GeneralAntilles	Sony	05:03
GeneralAntilles	3.5"	05:03
GeneralAntilles	Transflective	05:03
luke-jr	ds3: N900 display is significantly smaller	05:03
ds3	smaller? eek	05:03
GeneralAntilles	Ah, didn't realize you missed that one.	05:03
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, 3.5" vs 4.1"	05:03
ds3	800x480 on the N800 is small enough	05:03
GeneralAntilles	You don't really notice it, though.	05:03
GeneralAntilles	At least, I don't.	05:03
ds3	I assumed it was basically the N810 case/LCD	05:03
* luke-jr would		05:03
ds3	I use it as a GPS and @#%@$$%$@# OSM maps seems to come out with the tiny font	05:04
luke-jr	wtf? I thought N800 didn't have GPS	05:04
GeneralAntilles	ds3, build a headmount. :P	05:04
ds3	I use a BT GPS	05:04
GeneralAntilles	Bluetooth	05:04
luke-jr	o	05:04
ds3	headmount? composite output?	05:04
GeneralAntilles	Oooh	05:05
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: if he built a headmount, he wouldn't need something handheld	05:05
GeneralAntilles	Build a HUD projector	05:05
luke-jr	could stick a BB or EMX in a jacket	05:05
ds3	I made my own car mount for the 800 already	05:05
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, I'm mostly thinking of something that holds the N900 in front of your face.	05:05
GeneralAntilles	I was being facetious.	05:05
luke-jr	i c	05:05
ds3	oh :P	05:05
GeneralAntilles	But, yeah, composite output is there.	05:05
luke-jr	do current-gen TVs support composite anymore? O.o	05:06
ds3	it sounds like it is worth it but the tiny gotchas :(	05:06
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, yes.	05:06
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crashanddie_	you would need special glasses or a lens to allow your eyes to focus	05:06
crashanddie_	in order to have it close to your face	05:06
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sheepbat	aren't HUDs made with that in mind?	05:06
luke-jr	ds3: no USB host, also	05:06
luke-jr	sheepbat: [21:05:31] <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, I'm mostly thinking of something that holds the N900 in front of your face.	05:06
sheepbat	oh	05:06
ds3	luke-jr: yeah, that is pretty high on my gotchas list	05:07
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ds3	but prehaps, I'll just make a little USB server with a BT interface :D	05:07
luke-jr	lol	05:07
GeneralAntilles	ds3, I wonder how many of those you could sell.	05:07
ds3	I just need to be able to read a USB stick ocassionally	05:07
luke-jr	ds3: personally, I'm waiting for a next-gen device like Nexus Two or such	05:07
ds3	GA: you think someone is actually interested in that?	05:07
GeneralAntilles	ds3, I dunno.	05:07
luke-jr	ds3: I think it would be a hot item	05:07
luke-jr	lots of people seem to miss USB host	05:08
GeneralAntilles	I bet there's be a couple hundred people who might buy if the price were right.	05:08
sheepbat	anyone with a smartphone with a tiny keyboard would want one	05:08
ds3	luke-jr: I have limited time... the N800 is wearing out (it is a daily use device)	05:08
sheepbat	well.. not anyone	05:08
GeneralAntilles	It'd probably have to be less than $50.	05:08
sheepbat	but people who would want to type on them using a fullsize keyboard	05:08
luke-jr	ds3: ah; SmartQ 5 perhaps?	05:08
GeneralAntilles	ds3, just get it from somewhere with a reasonable return policy.	05:08
ds3	I can do $50 but that would only work with USB sticks	05:08
ds3	USB memory	05:09
luke-jr	sheepbat: Bluetooth keyboards exist	05:09
ds3	GA: I donno about that...that's a $150 premium	05:09
sheepbat	..good point	05:09
kejen_	I been meaning to ask, what is the point of that "mac os" folder with 0 length binary files in it?	05:09
GeneralAntilles	ds3, well, if you get interested in the manufacturing, talk to jolouis.	05:09
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ds3	Dell seems to be the cheapests and I don't think they do returns (unless I am wrong)	05:09
GeneralAntilles	ds3, he did the USB OTG adaptors for the N800/N810.	05:09
GeneralAntilles	ds3, hrm, good point.	05:10
ds3	GA: I can do the manufacturing... I am manufacturing the LCD interfaces for the BB already	05:10
GeneralAntilles	They should do returns, but I'm not sure if they have a restocking fee.	05:10
luke-jr	ds3: O.O	05:10
sheepbat	ahh, my screen protector is here	05:10
GeneralAntilles	ds3, no, sorry, I know you can do it, but he's somebody who has experience with the market and might have some useful insights. ;)	05:10
ds3	it is either a stopgap buy a new battery for the N800 and hope the Treo tethering don't die or hold my nose and jump into the N900	05:11
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ds3	GA: gotcha	05:11
ds3	Hmmm for USB memory sticks, $50 should be doable	05:13
ds3	but a BB based solution is more fun ;)	05:13
GeneralAntilles	Haha	05:13
GeneralAntilles	That's so excessive.	05:13
ds3	it is no worse then the C64 days when the diskdrives had faster CPUs ;)	05:14
GeneralAntilles	Too bad Bluetooth has no bandwidth	05:14
GeneralAntilles	Else you could do some other fun stuff with a setup like that.	05:14
kamui	groan	05:14
ds3	such as?	05:15
kamui	I hate having to reflash for such a minor firmware upgrade	05:15
GeneralAntilles	Video out and such	05:15
kamui	12 meg free on root	05:15
GeneralAntilles	kamui, remove your stuff from Extras-devel.	05:15
ds3	Oh... even WiFi would not go too well with that	05:15
GeneralAntilles	Indeed	05:15
GeneralAntilles	Too bad we don't have USB host	05:15
GeneralAntilles	Oh, wait. ;)	05:15
ds3	looking at the junk pile... a PXA270 might be a reasonable compromise	05:15
ds3	ouch, maybe not from a $$ prospective	05:16
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ptl	no quit	05:31
ptl	I am staying!	05:31
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kamui	GeneralAntilles, im trying something drastic	05:35
kamui	removing nokia maps :)	05:35
kamui	its not like ovi maps is useful anyway	05:35
kamui	just eating up a lot of a space it seems on /usr/share	05:35
kamui	didn't look deep to make sure most of its not already relinked	05:35
kamui	cause that would just stink like a silent dog fart	05:35
ptl	what would you use instead of ovi maps?	05:37
SpeedEvil	http://xkcd.com/407/	05:38
kamui	right now, probably just navit	05:38
kamui	though Im reallynot using the N900 for navigation at all	05:38
SpeedEvil	I coded that using espeak - though I mislaid it when flashing	05:39
kamui	espeak rocks	05:39
g0tcha	navit is free? hehe	05:39
kamui	well, if its not, that would be news to me	05:39
ptl	yes	05:39
ptl	it is	05:39
kamui	getting your maps isn't really all that fun	05:39
kamui	but once thats done it works pretty well	05:40
g0tcha	really? can navigate for free using navit?	05:40
ptl	what did you code using espeak, SpeedEvil?	05:40
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kamui	I really hope that somewhere in this merge of moblin and maemo they do something about ovi craps	05:40
SpeedEvil	ptl: the xkcd gps	05:41
ali1234	http://blog.xkcd.com/2008/05/20/gps-cyborg-implant/	05:42
kamui	anyone see any reason I can't or shouldn't use dist-upgrade to install the new firmware?	05:42
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ali1234	kamui: i tried it once. didn't end well	05:43
GeneralAntilles	kamui, depends on if anything is being removed.	05:44
GeneralAntilles	kamui, it's also a good idea to symlink the apt cache to someplace with some space.	05:44
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kamui	GeneralAntilles, thats usually my first article of business	05:45
kamui	GeneralAntilles, the first reboot after the distupgrade resulted in a never before seen white nokia screen with blue status bar, and a reboot	05:45
kamui	looks like it booted up fine into my desktop	05:45
andrewfblack	hello	05:45
kamui	keeping fingers crossed that I dont have to reflash	05:45
pupnik_	here's an idea. an os that can rollback after an update and failed reboot.	05:47
pupnik_	hurrr durrr	05:47
ptl	your question could be put that way: what application manager does that differ from apt-get?	05:47
GeneralAntilles	pupnik_, doable.	05:47
GeneralAntilles	pupnik_, but doing the backup would be rather time consuming	05:47
ptl	pupnik_: I've tried to advance rollbacks on the debian lists for many years now. Even rpm had this feature for a few minor releases, then they pulled it back	05:48
GeneralAntilles	ptl, a few.	05:48
kamui	epic failure	05:49
ptl	it's 'doable', in the way that it can be somewhat easily be put to work, but to harden and foolproof this is really difficult	05:49
kamui	I still show my version as 2.2009.51.1 002	05:49
kamui	:(	05:49
ptl	lemme check my version	05:49
GeneralAntilles	kamui, check the version on apt.	05:49
ptl	I upgraded via the app manager	05:49
GeneralAntilles	kamui, sometimes that field doesn't update properly.	05:49
pupnik_	ptl, i wasn't seriously suggesting it was an original idea :) can you point to any googleable stuff on implementation?	05:49
kamui	apt 0.7.20.2maemo13 for armel compiled on Jan 13 2010 16:46:05	05:50
* andrewfblack wonders if nokia will keep maemo.org for n8x0 users?		05:50
ptl	version: 3.2010.02-8.002	05:50
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kamui	GeneralAntilles, what version do you have? I saw apt get upgraded in the dist upgrade	05:50
kamui	so I wonder if everything is mostyl fine	05:50
kamui	this is going to bug me though :)	05:50
ptl	pupnik_: http://lists.rpm.org/pipermail/rpm-list/2009-April/000226.html http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7034	05:51
andrewfblack	hey GeneralAntilles guess this is end of our nokia sponsored community outreach we had been working on>	05:52
GeneralAntilles	kamui, http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/maemo5.0_update3_vs_maemo5.0_update4_content_changes.html	05:52
GeneralAntilles	That took forever to find	05:52
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, why?	05:52
GeneralAntilles	kamui, I don't think Nokia has any plans to change the budget.	05:52
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andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: just figured don't know though	05:53
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GeneralAntilles	Er, s/kamui/andrewfblack/	05:53
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, qgil seems to say not.	05:53
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, I guess we'll just have to change out branding.	05:53
ptl	pupnik_: If the change to rpm really sticks on meego, maybe we can re-use the rollback feature	05:54
GeneralAntilles	s/out/our	05:54
crashanddie_	anyone using twitter here?	05:54
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pupnik_	that might be a nice help.	05:54
crashanddie_	or more specifically: anyone know the twitter API?	05:54
andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: I didn't know if qgil had said anything about the community outreach group after meego announcement	05:54
andrewfblack	crashanddie_: I use twitter but thats it lol	05:55
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crashanddie_	ok, just explain some lingo	05:55
pupnik_	now how about something more radical. a parallel flash that can track changes to filesystem and rollback when the device fails to boot at all	05:55
crashanddie_	what is a "direct message"	05:55
ptl	is there a new maemo 5 sdk?	05:55
ptl	crashanddie_: D user message on twitter.	05:55
crashanddie_	andrewfblack: are those the ones that start with @user bla bla bla?	05:55
ptl	it's like a pvt on IRC	05:55
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, budget shouldn't be changing.	05:55
ptl	only the user gets that	05:55
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, so seems like the outreach is still viable.	05:55
crashanddie_	ptl: ok, how do I get messages that have been sent to me?	05:56
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andrewfblack	crashanddie_: I think so	05:56
andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: ok	05:56
pupnik_	i think 'rollback' might have helped me on one or two maemo packages in the past 3 years	05:57
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, I'm not sure if I want to do it anymore if I'm going to be running a MeeGo table, though. <_<	05:57
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pupnik_	but screwing up the device to non-bootable has happened a lot more	05:57
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andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: Your not getting out of community spirit are you?	05:57
pupnik_	GeneralAntilles IS the community spirit	05:58
pupnik_	:P	05:58
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, no, I'd just be embarrassed to sit behind a "MeeGo" table all day. :P	05:58
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pupnik_	to some uncertain degree of precision	05:58
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andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: lol	05:59
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ptl	crashanddie_: there's a long time I don't access twitter, but I think there's a side panel where you can read private messages	06:02
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andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: even for a fine meal like you had last time?	06:02
crashanddie_	ptl: I'm not on the website, just using the API	06:02
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, mmm . . . ham on white	06:03
andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: it was free lol	06:03
sheepbat	hmm.. the N900 won't charge with just half an amp, will it	06:03
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andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: I found out SELF is going to be 3 days this year	06:05
GeneralAntilles	Yerg	06:05
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Wild_Doogy	sheepbat: Via usb you mean? it does for me, unless I am really using it	06:05
Wild_Doogy	LOL	06:05
sheepbat	yeah, via USB	06:06
Wild_Doogy	my N900's notification light JUST TURNED GREEN	06:06
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Wild_Doogy	like as I was typing!!!!	06:06
sheepbat	hahaha	06:06
Wild_Doogy	yeah	06:06
sheepbat	or..	06:06
sheepbat	<grumble>	06:06
Wild_Doogy	Ironic much?	06:06
sheepbat	yes	06:06
sheepbat	that was perfect	06:06
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Wild_Doogy	sheepbat: do you have batery-eye?	06:09
Wild_Doogy	battery-eye	06:09
sheepbat	yeah	06:09
sheepbat	hrm	06:09
sheepbat	I seem to have.. done something to it	06:09
Wild_Doogy	really?	06:10
* andrewfblack wonders if I should keep working on themes or wait to see what Meego UI will be		06:10
sheepbat	overall, not just battery-eye...	06:10
sheepbat	the launcher isn't working	06:10
sheepbat	I just installed the latest flasher kernel	06:10
sheepbat	everything else works though	06:10
Wild_Doogy	I have battery info im my conky now, after some scripting	06:10
Wild_Doogy	I cant get the latest Maemo update, as I have no SIM card	06:11
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kejen_	you can borrow mine	06:11
kejen_	:)	06:11
kejen_	just buy a $10 prepay one or something	06:11
Wild_Doogy	Fax it to me :-D	06:11
kamui	wow	06:11
Wild_Doogy	lol	06:12
kamui	stellarium seems to work	06:12
kamui	a little slow	06:12
Wild_Doogy	yeah, I am going to	06:12
kamui	but still	06:12
kamui	working!	06:12
Wild_Doogy	some time...	06:12
Wild_Doogy	I wonder if I can compile Blender to work on my N900	06:12
kamui	already done Wild_Doogy	06:12
kamui	I have a optimized build	06:12
kamui	still not really useable	06:12
Wild_Doogy	and Ironic, again, my latest Blender SVN just finished (2 minutes ago)	06:13
kamui	im writing a opengl to gles wrapper to further the project	06:13
Wild_Doogy	really?	06:13
kamui	blender 2.5alpha	06:13
kamui	look at my youtube video	06:13
sheepbat	would you happen to know the command that launches the app manager?	06:13
kamui	should give you a good feel for performance	06:13
sheepbat	or the package name of the kernel?	06:13
sheepbat	oh, I think I found it	06:13
Wild_Doogy	thanks	06:13
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kamui	I have the proejcrt on garage	06:14
kamui	as soon as I get a chance to package up the binaries, Ill put the current working build up	06:14
kamui	lag time is about 1.5 - 2 seconds due to the overhead of full software opengl rendering	06:15
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Wild_Doogy	well, remember, its running on a phone >_>	06:17
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Wild_Doogy	oh, it is unfair to cal lthe N900 a phone, but still	06:17
sheepbat	ultraphone?	06:19
itdocks	its a phone sized computer with a phone app	06:19
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sheepbat	and a GSM modem	06:20
Wild_Doogy	yeah	06:20
sheepbat	it's a MID with phone-like attributes	06:20
Wild_Doogy	and GPS, and an accelerometer	06:20
sheepbat	like how I'm a bat with sheep-like attributes	06:20
kamui	Wild_Doogy, this isn't new territory	06:20
kamui	I only did it because pocketblender on the windows mobile platofrm works very very well	06:20
kamui	and the author wrote a small opengl-gles wrapper software only that substantially improved its responsiveness	06:21
Wild_Doogy	I am just still amazed at how amazing my N900 is.	06:22
ptl	I just installed navit on n900	06:22
ptl	I can't operate it	06:22
kamui	yea, N900 is so awesome	06:22
ptl	does anyone have any experience with it?	06:22
kamui	pray for meego	06:22
kamui	pray for it not to destroy the N900's future	06:22
Wild_Doogy	the only trouble, and I am sure you all agree is the battery capacity.	06:23
ptl	praying does not help	06:23
itdocks	i have 4 batteries	06:23
itdocks	haha	06:23
Wild_Doogy	yeah, thats my plan too	06:23
ptl	try bitching on the forums	06:23
ptl	but it alliviates the frustration	06:23
sheepbat	and the tiny NAND flash	06:23
ptl	it also does not help	06:23
ptl	*alleviates	06:23
Wild_Doogy	I havent worked it hard enough to need more NAND, but the day is coming	06:23
itdocks	root fs is somewhat small	06:24
itdocks	256 megs	06:24
Wild_Doogy	itdocks: how do you charge the 3 that are not in the phone?	06:24
itdocks	accessory charger	06:24
itdocks	find 'em on ebay hehe	06:24
ptl	what's a "NAND" flash? is it the RAM of the device?	06:25
Wild_Doogy	I was just going to do some fancy wiring >_> (after research of course, not silly enough to just cross the leads on a lithium ion battery.)	06:25
itdocks	good way to set things on fire	06:25
itdocks	:P	06:25
GeneralAntilles	ptl, rootfs.	06:26
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Wild_Doogy	3000 degrees. yes	06:26
ptl	GeneralAntilles: oh. ok	06:26
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Wild_Doogy	does anyone know how to get conky 1.7.2 on my N900?	06:28
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Wild_Doogy	Get the arm dev, and hunt the needed packeges?	06:30
itdocks	Wild_Doogy: http://cgi.ebay.com/Wall-Charger-For-Nokia-Nokia-5800-5800XM-BL-5J-Battery_W0QQitemZ320483261019QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item4a9e4a7a5b	06:31
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itdocks	i have 2 of 'em they work great	06:31
itdocks	won't charge fully charged batteries either, so it's safe	06:31
Wild_Doogy	sweet, thanks	06:31
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Wild_Doogy	6 bucks freeshipping?	06:31
Wild_Doogy	nice!	06:31
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pupnik_	that is cheap	06:38
itdocks	yeah well worth it	06:39
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crashanddie_	lol...	06:43
crashanddie_	I just gave iTunes a big folder with songs to import from the N900	06:44
crashanddie_	within 20 seconds it found "desktop.ini" and died	06:44
itdocks	heh	06:44
Wild_Doogy	hahaha	06:46
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Wild_Doogy	now a linux program would output to the terminal something like "unknown file "desktop.ini" error 3 unknown format. .........Skipped"	06:47
Wild_Doogy	and be fine........	06:47
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crashanddie_	Wild_Doogy: no, it wouldn't you idiot	06:48
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* GeneralAntilles hands crashanddie_ some chocolate.		06:49
crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: thanks	06:49
Wild_Doogy	And why not? :-) thats a perfectly plausible error output	06:49
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crashanddie_	Wild_Doogy: don't think that Linux applications are more stable because they run on LInux	06:50
ali1234	that's pretty much what my rhythmbox does	06:50
ali1234	if you import an unknown filetype it bugs you about it every time you load up rhythmbox. "do you want to try to download a codec to play foo.jpg?"	06:50
jX	anyone gotten fMMS to receive MMSs on AT&T?	06:50
GeneralAntilles	jX, yes.	06:50
crashanddie_	Wild_Doogy: an app is only as good as the coder who writes it -- and sadly, the quality standard that Linux is used to is a far cry from polished apps that come with a commercial OS	06:50
Wild_Doogy	agreed, but that want my point. Linux apps are (IMHO) more adaptable, and less apt to crash	06:51
jX	Gen: Great, tips on settings? I can't get it to work, and someone just sent me an MMS. :)	06:51
crashanddie_	Wild_Doogy: I remember the day that Gimp crashed when you tried to open .RAW -- it knew it was an image, so tried to open it with whatever codec was available, which didn't go far	06:51
GeneralAntilles	jX, connected to data?	06:51
crashanddie_	Wild_Doogy: then your opinion is biased and childish	06:51
Wild_Doogy	well I actualy havent used gimp in a while, but point taken	06:52
jX	gen: Are you asking if I am on wifi or have a usable data connection via edge? Then yes	06:52
jX	(both, on wifi at home, have data too)	06:52
GeneralAntilles	Gotta be connected to EDGE	06:52
jX	ahh	06:52
jX	lemme turn off the wifi	06:52
crashanddie_	Wild_Doogy: granted, it was ten years ago -- and I'm pretty sure the iTunes crash was caused by other things as well. That being said, I just found it funny that it crashed, I wasn't intending on beginning any kind of bashing	06:52
Wild_Doogy	I should have said, "in my experience" but yes, my opinion is not that weighted.	06:53
jX	gen: And how should the number be formatted, +1ACNUM, 1ACNUM or jsut ACNUM?	06:53
pwnguin	ooh wesnoth	06:53
GeneralAntilles	+1	06:53
jX	failed. :(	06:54
pwnguin	.....228MB =(	06:54
GeneralAntilles	jX, maybe check your settings against those in the wiki.	06:54
jX	what am I doing wrong... yeah, lemme look at that again.	06:55
jX	the only options I see I can set are the MMSC, resize image, and my phone number. my APN choices are only AT&T Internet or T Mobile Internet	06:55
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jX	I assume teh APN is right since I can get connectivity with other apps	06:56
Wild_Doogy	crash: I found it funny as well, and I having a debate is fine, as long as it is done with the brain. :-)	06:56
GeneralAntilles	jX, check the APN settings.	06:56
jX	I haven't a clue where to find those in Maemo 5.	06:56
jX	ahh	06:56
jX	AHA!	06:57
jX	i BET THIS IS IT	06:57
Wild_Doogy	about the question I had earlier, does anyone know how to get the newest conky on the N900?	06:57
jX	sry caps	06:57
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ali1234	jX: do you have MMS enabled with your provider? it has to be enabled separately from IP, at least in the UK	07:00
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jX_	[00:00] <jX> hmm, is there a way to create a new GPRS connection?	07:01
jX_	[00:00] <jX> I can only seem to create new wifi connections	07:01
GeneralAntilles	fAPN	07:01
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jX_	pardon?	07:01
GeneralAntilles	The application	07:01
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jX	oh	07:01
jX	ok	07:01
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jX	lemme grab that	07:01
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\|R	what's up with "Raw bird power" being on the ovi store? (I can't see it :P)	07:02
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jX	hrm	07:07
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\|R	http://twitter.com/WeAreMaemo/status/7752738918 <- ??	07:11
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jX	jeezalou...	07:13
jX	GAH. What the hell am I doing wrong?	07:15
GeneralAntilles	Why is it that Ovi reviews are NEVER in English?	07:15
jX	omg it works	07:16
jX	GeneralAntilles++	07:16
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Wild_Doogy	Hey chaps, here is a great project / app that I am working on: I help manage a church tower clock. As it is winter here in Vermont, the clock has been running inaccurately as the pendulum changes length. Using the Mic on my N900 I am able to messure the period by recording the clicking of the main escapement.	07:20
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jebba	heh. cool.	07:22
Wild_Doogy	yeah, the mic's resolution isn't that great, if its off by one sample, then thats 27 seconds in a week	07:24
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Wild_Doogy	but..... if you do 10 clicks then you have 2.7, and then average it out.....	07:25
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pwnguin	you know, these phones also have the internet and nts	07:30
Wild_Doogy	nts?	07:31
pwnguin	hmm	07:31
pwnguin	ntp	07:31
pwnguin	network time protocol	07:31
Wild_Doogy	yes, mine seems to update its time	07:32
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pwnguin	the cell provider also provides time	07:32
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Wild_Doogy	and GPS provides time	07:33
Wild_Doogy	so yeah, covered in all respects	07:33
pwnguin	seems a hell of a lot easier than measuring pendulm swings	07:33
Wild_Doogy	the trouble with the clock isnt setting the time, thats easy, its ajustingthe speed	07:34
jebba	http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Technology/pdf/Nokia_software_strategy_white_paper.pdf	07:34
Wild_Doogy	which wanders nastily lol	07:34
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Wild_Doogy	Someone posted a link to a n900 battery charger.	08:14
Wild_Doogy	Here is a link to a charger + battery for $10 with free shipping. though you guys might like it	08:14
Wild_Doogy	http://cgi.ebay.com/Charger-BL-5J-Battery-Screen-Protector-For-Nokia-N900_W0QQitemZ280466191775QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item414d16759f	08:14
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GeneralAntilles	I love how they reused the Maemo architecture diagram put subbed in MeeGo.	08:19
GeneralAntilles	Ugh	08:19
GeneralAntilles	MeeGo	08:19
* GeneralAntilles cries.		08:19
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RST38h	Yea, that was cute	08:20
RST38h	But the presentation in general is nothing new, unfortunately	08:20
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GeneralAntilles	It's so depressingly stupid	08:24
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rmt	Any idea on the status of the post-n900 ?	08:31
slonopotamus	one new device, running only one maemo version :)	08:31
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slonopotamus	okay, maybe two devices.	08:32
rmt	Maybe only a minor update .. improved battery life a feature?	08:32
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crashanddie_	GeneralAntilles: ping	08:38
GeneralAntilles	pong	08:38
crashanddie_	I think I've found the anthem for MeeGo	08:38
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tybollt	o_O	08:38
crashanddie_	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZWAoXy-C4	08:39
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, nah, that's Frontier Psychiatrist.	08:41
slonopotamus	err... fremantle update?	08:43
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, small one.	08:44
GeneralAntilles	PR1.1.1	08:44
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, see the end of the topic.	08:44
slonopotamus	oh, right	08:45
tybollt	since konttori said 1.2 is soon due, I'm guesing this is yet another "stepping stone"?	08:45
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slonopotamus	' * Disables apt-get from installing ovi store content '	08:46
slonopotamus	err... wut?	08:46
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GeneralAntilles	Haha, is that how they did it?	08:49
GeneralAntilles	Awesome.	08:49
GeneralAntilles	Fail.	08:49
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GeneralAntilles	So, um, who's going to package up a PR1.1 apt? :D	08:50
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villager	they really should think about doing some access control on the server side...	08:54
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mashiara	I guess a simple stopgap is enough for now, but I still wonder what in their server end is so messed up that they could not solve this properly	08:58
mashiara	of course Ovi is a completely different unit and all which makes things complicated...	08:58
mashiara	s/unit/business unit/	08:58
infobot	mashiara meant: of course Ovi is a completely different business unit and all which makes things complicated...	08:58
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slonopotamus	argh! why? why delete button is disabled when you open email from yellow popup???	09:01
mashiara	Could someone else verify that the latest kernel source package cannot build usable debs and then perhaps file a bug	09:02
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tybollt	slonopotamus: In soviet (finland?) russia - mail delete you!	09:02
mashiara	I mean as-is, I spent the last evening and this morning patching the rules and control for http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/	09:02
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mashiara	and I had to do a lot more patching than for PR1.1	09:03
mashiara	and it looks like the stock rules/control yield basically useless debs (modules not stripped so they 50MB space etc...)	09:03
torindel	fail @ Maemo update, what nokia pc software, unless they did linux version which i doubt -__-	09:03
mashiara	there is a CLI flasher that works in linux and OSX	09:04
torindel	mashiara: so only whole device reflash will work?	09:04
mashiara	(except my OSX where there is a weird conflict somewhere, but I have weird stuff installed)	09:04
torindel	no update from running phone like before? -__-	09:05
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villager	you can update from phone if you have the free space	09:05
slonopotamus	torindel, just updated without problems.	09:05
villager	and haven't installed too much crap that conflicts with builtin software I guess	09:05
mashiara	torindel: I'm confused now, AFAIK the nokia windows updater is flasher too	09:06
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mashiara	torindel: updating in-device works unless something prevents it from working (like weird devel packages or too full rootfs), as said above	09:06
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kejen_	has anyone ran into issues from enabling/disabling testing/devel. For example. Enable testing and it installs a package and some libs. Then disable it. Now install something and it was compiled against a lib in normal, but i have the lib from testing	09:15
kejen_	not sure how to explain it	09:15
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kejen_	i guess it wouldnt matter unless it was core stuff	09:16
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slonopotamus	bug #9095. vote!	09:19
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9095 Delete button disabled when email is opened from yellow notification	09:19
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Xisdibik	slonopotamus: you delete email? 0.o	09:35
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Jaffa	Morning, all	09:36
Xisdibik	morning Jaffa	09:36
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Jaffa	konttori_work: ping (questions about menu structure in PR 1.2)	09:44
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konttori_work	Jaffa, pong	09:50
* Stskeeps tries to catch up with talk.maemo.org		09:51
tybollt	I don't go there much but I guess trolls are having a field day what w/ the meeto and all that?	09:52
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Stskeeps	i like to compare it to screaming people inside a burning house	09:52
tybollt	:-D	09:52
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adeus	some people can actually use forums like irc	09:55
adeus	talk for pages and pages about nothing	09:55
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thresh	some??	09:58
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crashanddie_	!thresh++	10:02
crashanddie_	FAILBUS TICKET, wooooooooo	10:02
crashanddie_	~thresh++	10:02
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thresh	:o	10:02
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Stskeeps	mashiara: what new kernel version?	10:07
mashiara	20100303+0m5	10:07
Stskeeps	i don't see it.	10:07
Stskeeps	in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/	10:07
Stskeeps	unless you mean a internal release	10:08
mashiara	hmmm, I wonder if I'm getting this from some -devel repo...	10:08
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Stskeeps	yeah, extras-devel	10:09
Jaffa	konttori_work: someone's suggested Catorise will have "serious issues", wondering if /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu isn't the root anymore	10:09
mashiara	it indeed looked mighty half-baked	10:09
jacekowski	good morning	10:09
Stskeeps	mashiara: could you report this issue to extras-devel for me?	10:09
Stskeeps	there isn't supposed to be a 'kernel' source package in extras-devel	10:09
Stskeeps	err, to maemo-developers/community	10:10
mashiara	sure	10:12
* mashiara bangs head to the wall		10:12
mashiara	I spent a lot of time fixing a non-issue	10:12
mashiara	just because someone from collabora did not think things through	10:12
Stskeeps	mashiara: pitchforks and molotov cocktails time, obviously	10:13
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nid0	so, this is probably going to make me sound monumentally dumb but I have a query	10:16
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nid0	when I got up this morning and touched my phone's screen it was displaying a more "traditional" touchscreen's "swipe across here to unlock" thing that i've never seen before, any idea how to intentionally use that rather than locking it via deactivating the screen entirely as normal on the switch?	10:17
thresh	touch the power button	10:17
thresh	select lock screen and keys	10:17
thresh	touch the power button again	10:18
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nid0	oh cunning, can lock it using either method but the power button to wake it instead of the lock switch displays the screen	10:18
nid0	neat, ta	10:18
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xt	nid0: you can press power button twice to make locking faster	10:19
* tybollt is dissapointed in Stskeeps - you forgot tar and feathers ;P		10:20
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nid0	yeah ta I knew that one, will probably stick to the slider switch to lock it, but getting the screen display with the clock without unlocking it entirely is handy, I never knew that was there till accidentally seeing it this morning	10:20
thresh	xt: woah, i never knew that	10:20
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mashiara	stskeeps: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-February/003940.html	10:26
Stskeeps	thanks	10:26
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mece	is Qt 4.6 for fremantle final?	10:31
timeless_mbp	oh wow	10:31
timeless_mbp	calendar will suck a lot less	10:31
* timeless_mbp hearts 1.2		10:31
mece	timeless_mbp, oh.. OH! When will I have it?	10:32
timeless_mbp	mece: i don't read tea leaves	10:32
timeless_mbp	you're welcome to try	10:32
* tybollt ! <3 the silly dialogs in HAM		10:32
Corsac	before hell freezes	10:32
tybollt	"yeah, right" wtf is that? :-S	10:32
Corsac	(hopefully)	10:32
timeless_mbp	tybollt: did you see my pictures of ham?	10:32
tybollt	timeless_mbp: Where do I look?	10:32
Corsac	I love ham for breakfast	10:32
tybollt	mmmmh ham drools	10:32
mece	timeless_mbp, I prefer salami.	10:32
mece	err sorry wrong person	10:32
timeless_mbp	ham isn't kosher	10:33
mece	timeless_mbp, how does calendar suck less in 1.2 then?	10:33
timeless_mbp	mece: i couldn't say	10:33
mece	timeless_mbp, but it does?	10:33
timeless_mbp	hypothetically	10:33
mece	:)	10:33
timeless_mbp	actually, not the calendar	10:34
timeless_mbp	calendaring	10:34
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mece	i see.	10:34
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tybollt	timeless_mbp++	10:36
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iamrandom	I love you ?DCC SEND STARTKEYLOGGER'	10:44
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RST38h	moo wazd	10:52
wazd	RST38h: heya	10:52
wazd	hello everyone	10:52
tybollt	hello Dr Nick!	10:52
tybollt	ehr wazd	10:53
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Stskeeps	jebba: ping	10:55
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Antti_Alien	Stskeeps: tekojo told to ask you :-]	11:01
Stskeeps	Antti_Alien: about? :)	11:01
Antti_Alien	hi, i'm trying to create a customized rootfs image to set up a large number of devices	11:01
Stskeeps	ah, just my alley :)	11:01
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Antti_Alien	but, i need them to be uninstallable	11:02
Stskeeps	Antti_Alien: by devices you mean n900?	11:02
Antti_Alien	yeah	11:02
Stskeeps	k, should we take this in private message?	11:02
Antti_Alien	okay	11:02
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Flyser	is there a rss feed available of the extras-testing repository? I monitor added applications	11:09
X-Fade	Flyser: No, not atm. On my todo list.	11:10
Flyser	okay.	11:10
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DocScrutinizer	shit >:-( Not enough free storage for PR1.1.1	11:16
tybollt	-> disable repo -> install -> enable repo	11:16
tybollt	no big deal mate	11:16
DocScrutinizer	uhu. Also when I completely cleaned /var/cache/apt?	11:17
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rom1dep	Flyser: there is a program.. appwatch	11:20
DocScrutinizer	tybollt: which repos to disable?	11:21
rom1dep	DocScrutinizer: no worry, just free rootfs by moving things to /home + symlink	11:22
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DocScrutinizer	what o move?	11:22
DocScrutinizer	/var/lib?	11:23
DocScrutinizer	/usr?	11:23
rom1dep	http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space	11:23
* DocScrutinizer mumbles swearwords		11:24
DocScrutinizer	~optification	11:24
infobot	hmm... optification is a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR	11:24
tigert	man	11:27
tigert	flipclock has some weirdest ui	11:27
tigert	plus it is so slow I dont know how it works :D	11:27
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thorbjorn	I want to see that video again from dui framework announcement, but it's no longer to be found anywhere? :(	11:34
Stskeeps	yeah, i was wondering why that got pulled as well	11:34
alterego	Off of youtube?	11:35
thorbjorn	Yes.	11:37
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alterego	Curious, google consipiracy? ^.^	11:37
thorbjorn	See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Jk0FETBB4 :)	11:37
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tybollt	dui framework?	11:37
alterego	Removed by user aye ,,, Interesting ...	11:38
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thorbjorn	Even the blog post referring to it was removed (http://karoliinamaemoblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/maemo-6-ui-framework-open-sourcing.html)	11:38
alterego	Weird ..	11:38
alterego	I bet they got told off ...	11:38
thorbjorn	Guess so.	11:39
alterego	Which is odd, because I thought they got asked to do it? That's at least the impression I got from something he said in the video.	11:39
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rom1dep	It remains Widget Gallery	11:41
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Laiska	uuu,an update for maemo 5	11:45
rom1dep	damn that's heavy :(	11:45
tybollt	heavy?	11:46
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rom1dep	the widget gallery app is slow...	11:46
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TomaszD	battle of wesnoth takes ages to initialize	11:50
TomaszD	I'm not sure if this is compiled properly	11:50
timeless_mbp	TomaszD: s/initialize/start/	11:50
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timeless_mbp	one doesn't use "initialize" in common speech	11:50
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timeless_mbp	generally anywhere that Nokia uses it in the n900 ui is a bug	11:51
* timeless_mbp has eradicated most instances		11:51
TomaszD	:)	11:51
TomaszD	wesnoth now says "initializing screen"	11:51
timeless_mbp	right, that's a bug	11:51
timeless_mbp	using big words is generally wrong	11:52
TomaszD	I think that's debatable, I encourage you to file a bug with wesnoth though	11:52
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timeless_mbp	konttori_work: speaking of linguistics, did you file a bug about the untranslated string? :)	11:52
timeless_mbp	TomaszD: give me a picture and steps to reproduce and i'll file it :)	11:53
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TomaszD	timeless_mbp, http://imgur.com/RrHs2.png	12:00
TomaszD	it's in Polish though	12:00
TomaszD	but I don't believe the original translation is "starting"	12:00
TomaszD	:)	12:00
timeless_mbp	TomaszD: heh	12:01
timeless_mbp	yeah, somehow i doubt it	12:01
tybollt	ugh	12:01
timeless_mbp	localizers don't tend to be particularly creative	12:01
tybollt	why does symbian^3 release look like a description of Hildon? :S	12:01
bilboed-pi	what ?	12:01
tybollt	"The Homescreen takes a big step forward with support for multiple pages of widgets and a simple flick gesture to move between them. The widget manager makes discovery and download of new widgets simple and support for multiple instances of a native widget means that consumers can monitor multiple weather forecasts, news feeds, social networking accounts or multiple email accounts simultaneously through a common interface."	12:01
TomaszD	timeless_mbp, the Polish l10n of wesnoth is actually very good, can't blame them for sticking with the original	12:02
TomaszD	it's a matter of not having some guidelines estabilished, which we (GNOME) already have	12:02
TomaszD	tybollt, so hildon is a poor cousin, we don't have a widget manager with downloading capabilities	12:03
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timeless_mbp	tybollt: oh the directions Symbian and Maemo are moving in are really amusing	12:04
TomaszD	timeless_mbp, come on, share your opinion, I'm curious	12:04
TomaszD	:)	12:04
timeless_mbp	they're trying very hard to trade places :)	12:05
timeless_mbp	the grass is greener on the other side :)	12:05
TriztFromWork	is it just me or after yesterdays update I don't seem to be able to change volume with the zoom-button	12:05
TomaszD	TriztFromWork, just you probably, in what circumstances though?	12:05
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TriztFromWork	TomaszD; when on a virtual desktop, no active programs, in the media player listening to music	12:06
TomaszD	timeless_mbp, Symbian^3 is open source and I'd hazard a guess that it's more mature than Maemo :) Why do they stick with efforts on both	12:06
TomaszD	TriztFromWork, so it doesn't work anywhere?	12:07
timeless_mbp	TomaszD: that's like asking a person "why do you breathe, there's another person over there who's older and breathes better"	12:07
rom1dep	TriztFromWork: works here	12:07
TomaszD	oh timeless_mbp and his misjudged similies, breathing is essential for life, can't be compared with OS platforms	12:08
TriztFromWork	TomaszD; I need each time to get the system menu and use the volume control there to set the volume	12:08
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timeless_mbp	TomaszD: you think os platforms aren't made by organizations?	12:08
timeless_mbp	should organizations not breathe?	12:08
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timeless_mbp	TriztFromWork: does this happen in Notes?	12:09
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TomaszD	timeless_mbp, should they not be re-structured, re-organized to get behind one common platform instead of doing it like everyone is for themselves?	12:09
TriztFromWork	timeless_mbp; one moment	12:09
nid0	so which do you suggest they abandon?	12:10
timeless_mbp	TomaszD: if 90% of the people are working on stuff which has competing engineers	12:10
timeless_mbp	and competing managers	12:10
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TomaszD	I have no idea, it's a very tough decision	12:10
timeless_mbp	then restructuring is roughly equivalent to deleting 95% of the people	12:10
TriztFromWork	timeless_mbp, TomaszD, rom1dep; seems I needed yeat another reboot	12:10
timeless_mbp	asking an entity why it bothers breathing isn't likely to result in happiness	12:11
TomaszD	so it's about the people, not about the end goal of... profit	12:11
TomaszD	I know, no-one ever said it would be easy	12:11
timeless_mbp	um	12:11
TomaszD	it would make sense though, disregarding feelings of people for a moment	12:11
timeless_mbp	the goal of the organization is for its people to profit	12:11
ShadowJK	the 4 platforms are for different hw anyway, at some point it stops making sense trying to make one thing scalable across entire range :/	12:12
timeless_mbp	that it happens to conflict with some other organization with a similar goal elsewhere w/in the larger organization	12:12
timeless_mbp	well, that happens	12:12
TriztFromWork	timeless_mbp; people to profit or stock woner profit?	12:12
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timeless_mbp	TriztFromWork: people are selfish	12:12
timeless_mbp	especially here	12:12
nid0	why would it make sense? notwithstanding the fact that symbian and maemo/meego are for different devices, why should/would nokia restrict themselves by just abandoning one?	12:12
timeless_mbp	nid0: they both make software	12:13
timeless_mbp	obviously they're the same	12:13
TomaszD	I know next to nothing about restructuring companies, but I'm sure most people could stay, once the company gets behind the turmoil, turns a bigger profit as a result of being more focused, then they could hire more people again	12:13
ShadowJK	they're abandoning one?	12:13
TriztFromWork	timeless_mbp; sure we are, but there are a few how work for a common goal instead of own economical profit	12:13
timeless_mbp	and obviously they could save money	12:13
Ken-Young	I am trying to install the new Maemo 5 update on my N900. The Application Manager claims that 16 Mb free space is requited. By uninstalling all my downloaded Aps, I have freed 30 Mb in rootfs. But when I try to install the update, I get the message "Not enough space on trarget". Does anyone know why I can't update with 30 Mb free?	12:13
timeless_mbp	TriztFromWork: s/how/who/ ?	12:13
TomaszD	Ken-Young, you need >42MB	12:13
ShadowJK	Ken-Young: disable extras-devel and extras-testing	12:13
ShadowJK	reboot	12:13
sp3000	does that mean the string is bad?	12:14
Ken-Young	Thanks! I'll try that.	12:14
TriztFromWork	timeless_mbp; maybe just Stallman	12:14
TriztFromWork	timeless_mbp; sorry, missed that you fixed my typo	12:15
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Ken-Young	Just out of curiousity, whay does mearly having Extras-testing and Extras-Devel chew up megabytes of space on rootfs?	12:15
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nid0	the repo cache is stored there	12:15
ShadowJK	A local copy of the list of apps available is made. It's huge for extras-devel	12:16
Ken-Young	And that takes megabytes?	12:16
nid0	yes, extras-devel is massive	12:16
ShadowJK	16 or so	12:16
Ken-Young	Geez!	12:16
* TriztFromWork sees he has to do something about that at next update		12:16
timeless_mbp	TriztFromWork: the next real update should probably fix some of this stuff	12:17
timeless_mbp	although i suspect it'll be after the update, instead of before	12:17
TriztFromWork	I guess that will be the case :)	12:17
timeless_mbp	konttori seemed to indicate that we're going to optify stuff	12:17
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Ken-Young	Is it possible to set up some soft links, and "optify" the repo cache?	12:18
ShadowJK	timeless: make the autobuilder optify by default I say	12:18
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: for the system packages?	12:18
timeless_mbp	that would be interesting	12:19
ShadowJK	nah for extras-*	12:19
timeless_mbp	just move X11 to /opt and /bin/mount to /opt	12:19
timeless_mbp	and watch the system not boot :)	12:19
ShadowJK	yes	12:19
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TriztFromWork	just a theoretical question, you would need custom kernel if you would make user "home" to be ext3 instead of vfat?	12:20
ShadowJK	/home is ext3 on n900	12:20
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TriztFromWork	MyDocs	12:21
TriztFromWork	that one if vfat	12:21
timeless_mbp	TriztFromWork: it doesn't require a custom kernel	12:22
timeless_mbp	but it will break apps	12:22
timeless_mbp	and there is no fix	12:22
TriztFromWork	:(	12:22
timeless_mbp	so you need a really good reason to break support for windows, osx, camera, and other random devices	12:22
* TriztFromWork only uses Linux		12:22
timeless_mbp	=> has no friends	12:22
TriztFromWork	they have Linux	12:23
tybollt	timeless_mbp: the N presents MyDocs pretty much verbatim to the other end of the cable when connecting in "usb mass mode" right?	12:23
timeless_mbp	tybollt: yep	12:23
timeless_mbp	it's a hard disk w/ raw file system access	12:23
timeless_mbp	you can scribble dark secrets in unused sectors	12:23
timeless_mbp	(not a great idea, but hey!)	12:23
jacekowski	i was thinking about making some sort of vfat emulating driver	12:23
jacekowski	so it would present vfat to a PC	12:23
timeless_mbp	jacekowski: you and what army?	12:24
ShadowJK	lol	12:24
timeless_mbp	jacekowski: we aren't opposed	12:24
tybollt	yeah	12:24
jacekowski	while underlying fs would be still ext3	12:24
inz	Has anyone noticed any extra crawler traffic on their maemo related sites lately?	12:24
timeless_mbp	and if your code is great, has no patent issues, is licensed properly and upstreamed, you can be sure we'll consider it	12:24
ShadowJK	How about a small iso9660 partition with autorun.inf installing ext3 driver	12:24
tybollt	but emulating VFAT like that will prove to be non trivial (at best)	12:24
jacekowski	we?	12:24
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: you want people to trust nokia to write or distribute a kernel driver for windows?	12:25
tybollt	Newkia	12:25
jacekowski	vfat has patent issues all over it	12:25
timeless_mbp	do you know the horror stories about Apple's USB driver?	12:25
timeless_mbp	it causes blue screens	12:25
inz	My server load has gone way up, and the only related thing I can think of is MeeGo announcement.	12:25
timeless_mbp	have you seen nokia's windows apps?	12:25
tybollt	timeless_mbp: Do enlighten me, please	12:25
timeless_mbp	they're even worse than apple's windows apps (and that's impressive)	12:25
ShadowJK	patent issues... does nokia lawyers have a list of patents they car about and which they dont... becayse everything is patented :\	12:25
t-tan	TriztFromWork: read the TMO threads on reparitiong and efficient flash usage	12:25
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timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: patent numbers and descriptions are generally not shared	12:26
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ShadowJK	timeless: the ext3 driver for windows already exists I think	12:26
TriztFromWork	t-tan; TMO?	12:26
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timeless_mbp	knowing about patents is hazardous to your health and your employer's financial well-being	12:26
t-tan	TriztFromWork: TMO = talk.maemo.org	12:26
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: you would trust nokia to maintain updated versions of this driver?	12:26
tybollt	ShadowJK: nokia are so big that they don't need to care about patents. They can afford to play the suit <-> counter suit game for years on end until the other party (if BIG MONEY) settles out of court or (if small money) budges...	12:26
TriztFromWork	the ext3 driver isn't part of microsoft, so it will never be installed by default	12:26
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timeless_mbp	fwiw	12:27
timeless_mbp	if you're going to waste your time thinking about a driver for windows	12:27
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TriztFromWork	t-tan; ah, ok, I think I have those threads already bookmarked at home	12:27
timeless_mbp	the one that makes sense is usb networking	12:27
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timeless_mbp	then you can use samba w/ windows	12:27
* ShadowJK wouldnt even install nokia pc/ovi suite on anything		12:27
jacekowski	besides, why n900 is using crappy slow unreliable ext3	12:27
jacekowski	instead of reiserf	12:27
jacekowski	s	12:27
timeless_mbp	oh, jacekowski 's a troll	12:27
t-tan	jacekowski: wrong. both a not flash optimized	12:28
TriztFromWork	jfs had been cooler :P	12:28
t-tan	s/a/are/	12:28
infobot	t-tan meant: jarecekowski: wrong. both a not flash optimized	12:28
ShadowJK	jacekowski: it's the least bad for sd of the non-beta filesystems	12:28
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tybollt	timeless_mbp++	12:28
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* timeless_mbp wonders if this is his troll army		12:28
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timeless_mbp	do they code for you too, or just flood?	12:29
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Corsac	reiserfs leaves dead files in the forest	12:29
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ShadowJK	The crash behaviour of harddrives and flash differ alot.	12:29
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timeless_mbp	Corsac: do they make a sound?	12:29
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Corsac	timeless_mbp: when they get beaten, maybe	12:29
jacekowski	t-tan: from my personal experience reiser seems to be better	12:29
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Lumpio-	reiserfs is the only filesystem I've had crash on me	12:30
timeless_mbp	Lumpio-: crash ?= dataloss	12:30
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timeless_mbp	my hdd is dying and i'm not losing data :)	12:30
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ShadowJK	iirc TomTom ran robustness tests by powercycling during writes to SD/MMC repeatedly, and vfat and ext3 were about the only ones that werent dead after the second cycle, let alone the 10th..	12:30
Lumpio-	timeless_mbp: Likely data loss.	12:31
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t-tan	nilfs2 looks interesting and should be even safer. we have in the custom kernel	12:31
jacekowski	Lumpio-: reiserfs is only fs that never failed me	12:31
Lumpio-	There were a lot of files on that filesystem, and the... whatever tool recovered most of it in some 6 hours	12:31
jacekowski	Lumpio-: and it even survived disk failure in my home LVM	12:31
Lumpio-	However I did get some 60k files in lost+found.	12:31
* TriztFromWork seconds jacekowski		12:31
jacekowski	Lumpio-: where it left empty holes in file system	12:31
Lumpio-	eh?	12:32
TriztFromWork	but I do mostly use jfs as it goes to read only if it detects something wrong	12:32
ShadowJK	t-tan: Im running nilfs2 on my sheevaplug. It's fast, but I would not recommend it on n900.	12:32
jacekowski	Lumpio-: LVM is something like raid but not really	12:32
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Lumpio-	wtf does LVM have to do with this	12:32
t-tan	ShadowJK: why not? does it crash often? bugs?	12:33
jacekowski	Lumpio-: that i has 2 disks in LVM	12:33
jacekowski	Lumpio-: and one failed	12:33
Lumpio-	aah	12:33
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jacekowski	and except that data that was on failed HDD was lost	12:33
Lumpio-	I missed your line mentioning LVM	12:33
jacekowski	FS as a whole survived	12:33
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ShadowJK	t-tan: it does alot of rearranging of data in the background. It averages about .5Meg/second to a 4g usb key. That's tens of gigabytes per day. It's probably not good for longevity.	12:33
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ShadowJK	batterylife too :)	12:33
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t-tan	ShadowJK: thanks. that's interesting	12:36
* ShadowJK wonders if btrfs still has the "slow ssd" mode		12:36
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jacekowski	but going back to FS on n900	12:36
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jacekowski	why ext3 not ext2?	12:36
t-tan	ShadowJK: so what are the alternatives: brts, logfs?	12:36
ShadowJK	or if they abandoned it when people realized you should only buy intel and indilinx based	12:36
ShadowJK	t-tan: pretty much	12:37
jacekowski	what are chances of power loss in middle of write	12:37
ShadowJK	I think meego will use btrfs	12:37
jacekowski	on battery powered device	12:37
ShadowJK	jacekowski: that's where it often happens	12:37
tigert	ever dropped your device?	12:37
jacekowski	yes	12:37
t-tan	for btrfs we need a > 2.6.32 kernel on the N900	12:38
tigert	it is @quick way to remove battery really fast	12:38
* timeless_mbp rotfl		12:38
Lynoure	jacekowski: use call recording, and on a mobile phone the change of power loss in middle of write gets quite large :)	12:38
timeless_mbp	jacekowski: your average user will probably trigger sudden power loss at least 10 times a year	12:38
ShadowJK	If IO pressure becomes too high so the watchdog daemons dont run often enough, the hardware will brutally reset your device during peak I/O activity	12:38
timeless_mbp	now, if you don't care about your data, that's fine	12:38
tybollt	tigert: I found testing the "N900 fly" app is also good for quick battery removal	12:38
timeless_mbp	but oddly, most people get very upset if an important piece of data is lost	12:39
tigert	tybollt: yeah	12:39
timeless_mbp	tybollt: heh	12:39
tigert	hmm	12:39
jacekowski	well, i've been using ext2 for years	12:39
jacekowski	before people ever heard about ext3	12:39
tigert	how robust is n900fly? are my height records safe? ;)	12:39
t-tan	ShadowJK: decompression of the easydeb image doesn't trigger a reboot	12:39
Lynoure	jacekowski: that's usually the the order, yes :)	12:39
timeless_mbp	jacekowski: how is that relevant?	12:39
Lynoure	jacekowski: ext2 then ext3	12:39
jacekowski	that it was reliable enough	12:40
timeless_mbp	were you using it on a battery powered contraption?	12:40
ShadowJK	t-tan: it does not	12:40
jacekowski	mains powered	12:40
timeless_mbp	jacekowski: the stuff your smoking...	12:40
timeless_mbp	it isn't great stuff	12:40
timeless_mbp	i'd suggest you contact your dealer and ask for something else	12:40
ShadowJK	lol	12:40
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Lynoure	I've had data loss on mains powered ext2, that sucked	12:40
t-tan	ShadowJK: that's what I said. so when is I/O too high?	12:40
Lynoure	ext3 is more <3	12:40
konttori_work	Jaffa, I missed your comment.	12:41
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konttori_work	I was in meeting. Could you repeat it?	12:41
tigert	transmission does some crazy i/o too	12:41
timeless_mbp	Lynoure: i had a laptop where i was running it w/o a battery	12:41
timeless_mbp	occasionally i'd trip over the power cable	12:41
Lynoure	timeless_mbp: yes, done that too. :)	12:41
jacekowski	you could do it as they used to do it in IRIX	12:41
timeless_mbp	the sad part was that i was using RDP for most stuff	12:42
timeless_mbp	except, the work i was doing was in notepad locally	12:42
jacekowski	machines were able to trigger power loss interrupt	12:42
timeless_mbp	<oops>	12:42
ShadowJK	t-tan: performance degrades exponentially the less sequential it becomes. decompressing an image is a sequential read simultaneous with sequential write, plus some swapout activity. This is quite light for mmc	12:42
jacekowski	and run for long enough from capacitors for writes to complete	12:42
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yakov	hey	12:42
t-tan	ShadowJK: it spends most time for I/O, CPU load is < 50%	12:43
timeless_mbp	jacekowski: so...	12:43
timeless_mbp	please stop dreaming	12:43
jacekowski	you only need couple seconds of working CPU and flash	12:43
timeless_mbp	you're asserting well behaved programs	12:43
timeless_mbp	which have useful write patterns	12:43
timeless_mbp	those programs don't exist	12:44
jacekowski	it was working in IRIX	12:44
timeless_mbp	well, we aren't	12:44
ShadowJK	sure, but it's probably doing over 6 megs/sec total, it's fast enough that paging activity doesn't get delayed too much	12:44
timeless_mbp	we're working w/ linux programs	12:44
yakov	guys, which dsp does N900 have? TMS320C64+?	12:44
TriztFromWork	damn you write too much, I can't manage both work and read at the same time	12:44
yakov	I can't find it in omap spec	12:45
t-tan	ShadowJK: we see the effect that the same decompression sometimes takes 8min, sometimes 1h	12:45
timeless_mbp	TriztFromWork: stop working ;-)	12:45
thresh	yakov: wikipedia says so	12:46
ShadowJK	the worst case performance is approximately 90kbyte/s	12:46
tybollt	timless + thresh last two sentences bundled makes a very fun quote ;)	12:46
timeless_mbp	lol	12:46
TriztFromWork	timeless_mbp; thats an option, just wonder how I'll get my bills disappear too	12:46
slonopotamus	craaaap	12:47
ShadowJK	(90 for a class 6)	12:47
slonopotamus	it happened	12:47
tybollt	ShadowJK: hmm you're _the_ sd/mmc guru?	12:47
tybollt	ShadowJK: performance diff 6 <-> 10?	12:47
slonopotamus	usb connector destroyed on my n900 :(	12:47
TriztFromWork	t-tan; usually takes med 30-45 mins if I have 1G+ tar file	12:47
tybollt	ShadowJK: Basically, is 10 worth the extra monneh?	12:47
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slonopotamus	anyone has a fix?	12:48
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: production n900?	12:48
ShadowJK	tybollt: horsepiss vs cowpiss, it's a difficult choice indeed ;)	12:48
t-tan	ShadowJK: you mean, when changing only one bit per eraseblock?	12:48
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, yep	12:48
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: class action suit?	12:48
ShadowJK	t-tan: when writing 4k blocks	12:48
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, what?	12:48
tybollt	slonopotamus: warranty -> nokia repair shop -> meditate for two weeks -> wake up -> pick up phone at repair shop	12:48
Stskeeps	tybollt: except that's not how it seems to go :P	12:49
tybollt	Stskeeps: ??	12:49
slonopotamus	aargh	12:49
t-tan	TriztFromWork: the "easydeb benchmark": lzma decompression of 230MB to 2GB takes 8GB on the SD	12:49
Stskeeps	tybollt: go read talk.maemo.org :P	12:49
MiXu-	how does it go then?	12:49
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tybollt	Stskeeps: I rather not watch those loudmouth w/ fire in their hair ;)	12:50
Stskeeps	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37107	12:50
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TriztFromWork	t-tan; so 2GB takes 8GB of space? thats not good, too big bloxksizes?	12:50
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t-tan	TriztFromWork: oops, typo: 8mins	12:50
TriztFromWork	okey, thats quite fast compared to what i get	12:51
ShadowJK	MiXu-: "hi my usb port broke" - "our engineers have dtermined you istreated the device, no warranty repair for you" - "but you didn't even look at it!" - "err, we used our.. xray machine... at the door.... go away"	12:51
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MiXu-	Nice :P	12:51
t-tan	TriztFromWork: that's on a class 6 card. the same for eMMC	12:51
ShadowJK	I think the decompression time to microsd on n900 would vary less from time to time than to emmc :P	12:52
slonopotamus	so, usb port lived 3 month for me	12:52
slonopotamus	*months	12:52
TriztFromWork	t-tan; eMMC, was that where you have the OS or where you had ~/Mydocs ?	12:52
t-tan	TriztFromWork: I uncompressed on repartitioned ext3.	12:53
TriztFromWork	I guess the later, as the / don't have 2GB space	12:53
ShadowJK	slonopotamus: do post the the tmo thread, production device lasted 3 months... and your experience with nokia care	12:53
TriztFromWork	t-tan; thats nice, I have only done the untaring on vfat	12:53
t-tan	ShadowJK: you mean due to simulanteous swap or home access?	12:53
nid0	lack of uk firmware update getting very old now :<	12:53
ShadowJK	I think texrat is trying to make Nokia stop acting like an Evil Empire on this issue, so reports will help	12:54
t-tan	TriztFromWork: I don't expect a big difference on vfat	12:54
Ken-Young	TomaszD, ShadowJK Thanks for your help - I was able to update after following your tips.	12:54
TriztFromWork	t-tan; and my phone has been really unresponsive when doing that, frist moving the file to the device and then unarchive, both took me 30-45 mins	12:54
ShadowJK	t-tan: swapout and on-demand paging of stuff in /opt, yeah	12:54
t-tan	TriztFromWork: yes, you shouldn't use your device during the process. run it via ssh	12:54
ShadowJK	Even downloading stuff with gpodder at 500k/sec gives noticeable extra latency :)	12:55
* slonopotamus calls nokia care		12:55
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TriztFromWork	t-tan: I wouldn't have to do the unarchinving if only "scp -r" had worked	12:55
mece	scp -r works fine.	12:55
t-tan	TriztFromWork: rsync	12:55
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TriztFromWork	t-tan; scp far simpler and less options	12:57
TriztFromWork	mece; which ssh package you installed?	12:57
mece	hmm	12:57
mece	TriztFromWork, you mean what version?	12:57
TriztFromWork	mece; there are two different ssh packages in the repos	12:58
mece	TriztFromWork, I installed this in December. It's 51p1-6.maemo5	12:59
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mece	the openssh client and server metapackage	12:59
TriztFromWork	mece; openSSH (this one I have installed) and Dropbear SSH	12:59
TriztFromWork	mece; I have 5.1p1-6 too, but option -r never works for directories	13:00
tybollt	why dropbear ssh?	13:00
tybollt	really why?	13:00
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Jaffa	konttori_work: someone's suggested Catorise will have "serious issues", wondering if /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu isn't the root anymore	13:01
tybollt	openssh - drop everything else	13:01
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TriztFromWork	tybollt; don't ask me, I didn't approve it to be on the repo	13:01
tybollt	(mind the pun)	13:01
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tybollt	TriztFromWork: They can put pictures of busted baby seals on the repo - doesn't mean you have to download it... :)	13:02
TriztFromWork	tybollt; I wouldn't, thats why I installed openSSH	13:02
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* slonopotamus tries to decide if he should remove private data before sending his n900 to repair		13:05
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mece	TrizrFromWork, well I have that version and -r works as it should. I'm not sure I've tried it every way, but I've done a scp -r /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds mece@myhost:/music/ and that worked	13:05
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: it doesn't work anyway	13:05
TriztFromWork	slonopotamus; if you don't then the next one getting your parts won't see your photos ;)	13:06
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: so the questions are;	13:06
timeless_mbp	1. do you expect there to be a virus on the systems that touch your device	13:06
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TriztFromWork	mece; the other way around?	13:06
timeless_mbp	2. do you trust nokia less today than you did when you bought your n900	13:06
mece	TriztFromWork, from server to n900, on the n900?	13:07
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, i have some battery power yet :)	13:07
slonopotamus	actually just charged it and was pulling cable out	13:07
* X-Fade wants a nice equalizer built in Maemo		13:07
TriztFromWork	mece; from server to n900	13:08
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, i didn't buy it, it was gifted to me	13:08
slonopotamus	craaap :(	13:09
mece	TriztFromWork, I'm not sure if I've pulled. I can try it now..	13:09
slonopotamus	ShadowJK, so, they all break that way?	13:10
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TriztFromWork	mece; thanks	13:11
mece	TriztFromWork, works fine. I created /home/mece/testpull/asdf/ on my server and put some stuff there, then did, from n900, scp -r mece@<server>:/home/mece/testpull ./ and it downloaded the subtree as it should have.	13:13
TriztFromWork	hmm strange that it don't work for me	13:13
mece	TriztFromWork, could it be your server that has some problems?	13:13
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TriztFromWork	mece; works fine between laptop desktop, server desktop in all directions	13:14
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mece	TriztFromWork, you could perhaps try to remove all the ssh packages and install the openssh one again?	13:15
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TriztFromWork	I could. but that has to wait until I'm back home as I don't have access to the workstation with my n900 as they are on different nets	13:17
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konttori_work	Jaffa, you mean after the flattened launcher list is applied?	13:24
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timeless_mbp	konttori_work: have you installed catorize?	13:27
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Scelt_	catorize and mymenu are both having something good but also something bad	13:28
timeless_mbp	Scelt_: this is a different conversation	13:28
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* R4lph is away : I'm working... [=P= LogON]		13:29
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yakov	how does TI name C64+ silicon on OMAP? IVA? then what is ISP? is it possible to gain control of it?	13:33
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slonopotamus	-.-	13:48
Arif	.me yawns	13:48
* Arif yawns		13:48
Shapeshifter	how can I reload the icon cache or whatever is responsible for displaying icons on the desktop. Whenever I install a new app, the icon for the new app stays a blue square on the desktop and the app menu	13:48
Shapeshifter	a reboot fixes this.	13:48
Arif	reboot? :P	13:49
MiXu-	It's the same for me	13:49
Stskeeps	Shapeshifter: file a bug	13:49
Arif	I noticed it shows up after a while though	13:49
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Shapeshifter	Stskeeps: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6931 I think this is pretty much the problem	13:52
povbot`	Bug 6931: After installation of software last icon in "More..." view has default icon instead of own one	13:52
wazd	I've located a karma whore! wee! :D	13:53
RST38h	wazd: kill it!@	13:54
konttori_work	timeless, at least once, yes. But not after the flattening has been done	13:54
Scelt_	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures#Xterm_Shortcuts - ctrl+arrows to jump the words would be great	13:54
wazd	RST38h: http://maemo.org/profile/view/torpedo48/	13:54
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wazd	bwahaha :)	13:55
Stskeeps	wazd: who is that guy? :P	13:55
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Shapeshifter	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7307 this is probably the same bug, simply after a restore	13:55
povbot`	Bug 7307: App shortcuts on desktop don't have icon after restoring applications & settings	13:55
RST38h	wazd: Welll...umgh... at least he is reporting bugs...	13:55
wazd	Stskeeps: well, at least he commented ALL of the OMW iconsets with "Good job, it makes my desktop colorful" :D	13:56
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Stskeeps	2009-12-01	13:56
wazd	RST38h: he's an undercover :D	13:56
Jaffa	konttori_work: Correct.	13:56
RST38h	wazd: Yea, he commented my stuff too	13:56
Shapeshifter	and apparently there isn't even a font cache in pr 1.1.1 so I don't understand why there is this problem even.	13:56
RST38h	wazd: Something similar. Maybe he is running a script :)	13:56
wazd	RST38h: no script can trick me!	13:57
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zChris	Will Maemo stop existing now and become MeeGo ?	13:58
wazd	anyway, karma system failed again, people with lots of apps have less karma than people with lots of comments :D	13:58
Stskeeps	wazd: he'll be in for a shock when his karma doesn't qualify him for a meego device?	13:58
Stskeeps	:P	13:58
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wazd	Stskeeps: well, he's a bug reporter, why not? :D	13:59
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wazd	Stskeeps: makes more sense than giving anything to the lame designer wannabe :)	13:59
crashanddie_	zChris: there have been plenty of forum posts and blog posts	14:00
crashanddie_	zChris: please do make an effort by googling for at least half a minute	14:00
wazd	http://maemo.org/profile/view/rami/ this guy is funny too	14:00
crashanddie_	wazd: I think you're funnier	14:00
wazd	842 for brainstorm ideas? :D	14:00
wazd	crashanddie_: I'm The Funniest One actually :)	14:01
X-Fade	The new karma modifiers will be implemented this week.	14:01
X-Fade	The ones that Valerio pushed/discussed.	14:01
crashanddie_	X-Fade: just in time to screw everyone before the elections, I'm loving it!	14:01
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crashanddie_	X-Fade: including the IRC ones?	14:02
X-Fade	crashanddie_: Does not matter really.	14:02
wazd	X-Fade: haven't seen it, but since Valerio has made it - it should be great :)	14:02
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X-Fade	But I'm all for giving do-ers more karma.	14:02
X-Fade	Talk is cheap :)	14:03
niekt0	I was just wonadering, what would be drawwback, if I remount mmc card to / after boot (so I can install any debian armel packeges without fulling root partition).	14:03
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niekt0	~wondering	14:03
zChris	crashanddie_: The answer is yes :<	14:03
X-Fade	niekt0: Why don't you just boot from mmc then?	14:03
crashanddie_	zChris: the answer is not immediately	14:03
crashanddie_	zChris: you don't want maemo on a netbook?	14:03
crashanddie_	zChris: maemo goodness in your car computer?	14:04
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zChris	crashanddie_: I dont know since i havent tried Maemo. Im just curious what will happen with it now when Nokia is changing OS	14:04
pupnik_	the legitimate fear is bad decisions flowing from intel	14:04
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crashanddie_	pupnik_: bad decisions like what? Core 2 Duo? Intel Atom?	14:05
Stskeeps	crashanddie_: no, ARM saboteurs.	14:05
pupnik_	like shiftedsegment:offset	14:05
X-Fade	zChris: It is not changing OS.	14:05
pupnik_	or rpm	14:05
pupnik_	or "meego"	14:05
crashanddie_	zChris: Maemo 5 will live, Maemo 6 will live, we're just working towards a common goal with another company	14:05
niekt0	X-Fade: Even better. But still, will it be slower? or more power consuming? shorter card lifetime?	14:05
X-Fade	niekt0: You would find it out for us ;)	14:06
X-Fade	niekt0: Not using a compressed filesystem will help with performance in writes, but can slow down in reads. It all depends.	14:06
pupnik_	maybe we could have a power efficient cpu with a shutdownable x86 core on the side for the occasional dosbox session :P	14:07
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mashiara	X-Fade: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-February/003940.html	14:13
lardman	"morning£	14:13
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X-Fade	mashiara: Yes, will look into it.	14:14
mashiara	Maybe we could have a sanity-check in autobuilder that refuses packages with exact same names as the occresponding nokia repo	14:14
mashiara	s/occresponding/corresponding/	14:14
infobot	mashiara meant: Maybe we could have a sanity-check in autobuilder that refuses packages with exact same names as the corresponding nokia repo	14:14
X-Fade	mashiara: There is. I wonder why it didn't work.	14:14
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mashiara	does not check for the source package name ?	14:14
Stskeeps	X-Fade: it looks at binary package not source?	14:14
X-Fade	Stskeeps: I think looks at binaries produced by source packages.	14:15
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mashiara	wouldn't it be "simplest" to extract the source package before building and check the control file	14:16
X-Fade	mashiara: It does that.	14:16
pupnik_	X-Fade: what _is_ the proper upstream for maemo5 anyway. i use debian sid at home so thats what i always grab	14:16
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mashiara	pupnik_: at least the kernel changelog lines say intrepid	14:18
mashiara	but I don't think there is official upstream distro	14:18
pupnik_	yeah	14:19
X-Fade	pupnik_: No one knows ;)	14:19
X-Fade	pupnik_: With MeeGo, it will be more clear. As that is an upstream distro itself.	14:20
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pupnik_	"maego" would have been less annoying	14:21
pupnik_	oh well	14:22
pupnik_	nomen est omen	14:22
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matthew-	crashanddie_: If you dont agree with something, it doesnt mean you troll.	14:24
matthew-	you troll -> I troll.	14:24
crashanddie_	matthew-: I'm sorry?	14:24
crashanddie_	matthew-: context?	14:24
crashanddie_	matthew-: if you're going to throw out snarky comments, at least follow up on them, you twat	14:26
crashanddie_	anyway, going out for a cigarette, if you have anything else to say: PM	14:26
t-tan	mashiara: I've reported that kernel-source confict, too	14:27
matthew-	crashanddie_: No need to insult anyone.	14:27
t-tan	mashiara: the proper way should be like this: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/source/k/kernel-maemo/	14:28
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mashiara	if you're going to package a custom kernel call it something else than kernel-maemo	14:29
mashiara	howabout kernel-ttan	14:29
mashiara	or ttan-kernel	14:29
mashiara	for http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ i use hotspot-kernel	14:29
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t-tan	mashiara: the idea is have a common ommunity kernel, patches welcome. see TMO	14:30
mashiara	community-kernel ?	14:31
mashiara	trying to avoid confusion here...	14:31
t-tan	mashiara: yes, with enhancements to the stock kernel	14:31
mashiara	no I meant package name 'community-kernel'	14:32
mashiara	with 'community-kernel-modules'	14:32
t-tan	mashiara: the community is called Maemo	14:32
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adeus	hrrmh stupid freenode	14:32
crashanddie_	matthew-: why you don't just put your money where your mouth is? When did I say you were a troll? Bit of context please	14:33
mashiara	sure but if I didn't already know the difference of "kernel" and "kernel-maemo"/"maemo-kernel"	14:33
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mashiara	then "kernel-maemo" would look a lot like the official name	14:33
crashanddie_	yo penguinbait	14:34
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t-tan	mashiara: it's primarily a package that contains the kernel, not the community :)	14:34
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TriztFromWork	damn, it was the community i wanted	14:35
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mashiara	is this comment on "community-kernel" vs "kernel-community" (or "maemo-kernel" vs "kernel-maemo")	14:35
matthew-	crashanddie_: On the forums.	14:35
crashanddie_	matthew-: LINK	14:35
matthew-	later.	14:36
mashiara	or on the choice of the name used to differentiate the package from the stock kernel	14:36
mashiara	(my comments above meant for t-tan)	14:36
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mashiara	t-tan: in case you're interested in "my" patches see http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/mobilehotspot/trunk/patches/	14:37
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matthew-	crashanddie_: Dont you think its a bit of a power abuse?	14:39
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crashanddie_	matthew-: you're telling me to not call you a troll because allegedly I'm doing it to say we don't share the same opinion, and then you refuse to tell me where I did it	14:40
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Stskeeps	slonopotamus: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=531846&postcount=585	14:40
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mashiara	t-tan: I get the point about it being primarily kernel for some reason I just find it cleaner to use prefix-kernel(-xxx)? than kernel-suffix(-xxx)?	14:40
crashanddie_	matthew-: so I repeat, either own up on your allegations, or shut up	14:40
TriztFromWork	hate when the n900 rejects to connect, no matter that the key phrase is correct	14:41
matthew-	crashanddie_: I am working, i said ill link it later.	14:41
t-tan	mashiara: if you think your patches are stable, I could integrate them into the package	14:41
crashanddie_	matthew-: and I say, sod off if you're going to troll	14:41
crashanddie_	matthew-: because that is _exactly_ trolling	14:41
t-tan	mashiara: so far no one complained about the name	14:41
crashanddie_	matthew-: so you have the time to go on IRC to diss people, but not to link?	14:41
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tybollt	PM, please?	14:42
t-tan	t-tan: I have converted it to quilt, so its pretty easy to add/remove/change subpatches	14:42
mashiara	t-tan: I'm just touchy on the confusion issue right now, I wasted a lot of time on fixing stupidity in the "kernel" source package in extras devel cursing at the wrong people	14:42
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t-tan	mashiara: do you know the name of the guy who uploaded it?	14:43
mashiara	it's in the control file and I guess in autobuilders logs	14:44
mashiara	but I already nuked the files from my SB	14:44
mashiara	as for patches it's basically just configuration changes (enable NAT and QoS) and two quick and dirty oops fixes	14:45
t-tan	mashiara: ok, I already have NAT enabled. I can integrate your fixes and enable QoS	14:46
TriztFromWork	t-tan; how likely will it be that you add nfs4 support?	14:47
mashiara	t-tan: while discussing packaging and different custom kernels, how about this idea: use Provides: kernel-modules-nat, kernel-modules-xxx etc	14:48
mashiara	I do that on the hotspot packages (which are not in any repo yet)	14:48
mashiara	and the hotspot UI depends on the provides lines not on the exact kernel name	14:48
t-tan	TriztFromWork: even in the stock kernel CONFIG_NFS_V4=y	14:48
TriztFromWork	last time I tried it didn't want to mount the nfs4	14:49
t-tan	mashiara: yes, that's something we could consider, but some modules require a new kernel, other would work with stock	14:49
t-tan	mashiara: ... yes, just specifiying provides is a good idea	14:50
t-tan	mashiara: I thought you meant independent modules packages	14:51
mashiara	t-tan: I know but those module packages can then depend on exact kernel versions (I have also been thinking about how to cleanly package minimal featuresets of packages, since not everyone needs everything that goes into the community kernel)	14:51
mashiara	t-tan: took a while to write that	14:51
mashiara	t-tan: also independent module packages would be nice (also in the case of the community kernel)	14:52
t-tan	mashiara: problem: for the community kernel they are in their indep modules directory	14:52
t-tan	mashiara: so that can simply reflash a stock kernel	14:53
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t-tan	mashiara: we could symlink them to the stock modules directory	14:53
mashiara	t-tan: I guess with carefull use of depends/provides these should be solvable, but we probably need to ask the stock kernel people to add some provides lines too	14:54
mashiara	package wise	14:54
t-tan	mashiara: Idealy Nokia should integrate useful and test patches from the community kernel, and then also add the "provides"	14:55
t-tan	s/test/tested/	14:55
infobot	t-tan meant: mashiara: Idealy Nokia should integrate useful and tested patches from the community kernel, and then also add the "provides"	14:55
mashiara	yep, moment I'll try to write some examples	14:55
lcuk	++ t-tan	14:55
lcuk	community provided patches would be a distinct benefit where pracitcal	14:56
lcuk	not just kernel	14:56
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mashiara	If we have for example package 'kernel-modules-joydev' that has one file, joydev.ko, this module works with plain stock kernel so the file can be placed on the same module directory. the package must depend on the exact stock kernel version. Then we have another package	14:57
t-tan	the TMO thread for the community kernel: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43420	14:57
t-tan	we should discuss our ideas there	14:57
mashiara	point	14:57
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mashiara	will do	14:59
t-tan	mashiara: I'm just adding your patches to the comm.kernel	14:59
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mashiara	ok, though they're not really mine, talk usernames in patch file tell whose...	15:00
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Salle74	hello	15:00
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t-tan	mashiara: ok, thanks	15:02
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Necc	hy. i have a simple question: is there any way to override or disable automatic software update checks?	15:08
Necc	platform: maemo5	15:08
X-Fade	Necc: Just disable the repository?	15:09
Necc	not a solution	15:09
X-Fade	Necc: It is :)	15:09
Necc	no it is not	15:09
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X-Fade	You might not like it ;)	15:10
Necc	i asked to disable or override automatic checks, and not to kill completely the app manager	15:10
adeus	it's not a big task to re-enable it if you manually update anyways	15:10
X-Fade	It is just a tickbox.	15:10
Necc	10x checkbox...	15:10
frals	you got 10 repos enabled? bloody hell	15:10
X-Fade	Necc: Then you are doing something wrong anyway :)	15:11
Necc	every time when i wish to update or download new software... no this is not a solution, this is barbarism	15:11
frals	search the irclogs or talk.maemo.org, there is a setting to to change interval of automatic update	15:11
X-Fade	Necc: Or you click ignore once you see an update.	15:11
X-Fade	Necc: A lot easier.	15:11
Necc	i looked after in talk.maemo.org, i found nothing just a pending bugreport	15:11
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Necc	automatic software check is not visible event	15:12
frals	then search the irclogs or ml, im certain ive seen it somewhere	15:12
Necc	but it irritates me that this stupid function eats up montly 85MB from my 20MB data plan. so i look a solution to disable or override it	15:13
X-Fade	Necc: Are you sure it auto updates over 3G? If so, file a bug about that?	15:14
alterego	Mine does over 3G	15:14
Necc	i'm absolutely sure	15:14
Necc	aptitude checks for update in the background, and generates monthly a large amount data traffic	15:15
SpeedEvil	Indeed - updating over wifi also is a bug	15:15
X-Fade	Necc: Well that seems unwanted behavior to me.	15:15
SpeedEvil	or updating over usbnet	15:15
X-Fade	Necc: We don't use aptitude.	15:15
SpeedEvil	if it can't be disabled	15:15
frals	its suppose to be "always online", i dont see why it would matter what connection it is... ;-)	15:16
SpeedEvil	frals: it's not always online if it falls offline due to exceeding quots.	15:16
SpeedEvil	as	15:16
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frals	ye, no idea how people manage to get excessive data as im well within my 200mb monthly with autoupdate on extras, testing and devel	15:17
SpeedEvil	frals: and you're on 3G all the time?	15:17
frals	mostly yes	15:17
tybollt	frals: You use MFE?	15:17
Necc	it is matter for me as IRC and IM (like skype or MSN) uses monthly 6-7MB data, so a 20MB data plan is just ideal for me, except this clearly unwanted periodical updates	15:17
frals	yes, always online.. not syncing mailing list folders thou :p	15:18
MiXu-	How much do you pay for a 20MB plan then?	15:18
Necc	i can set mail sync to wifi only	15:18
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frals	Necc: if you check the h-a-m source on maemo.gitorious.org you can probably find the setting as well	15:18
MiXu-	Or 200MB	15:18
MiXu-	I'm paying 9,90e/month for an unlimited fullrate dataplan. It's so cheap that I don't see any point in having anything less.	15:19
frals	~4.9€	15:19
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SpeedEvil	where you are	15:20
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MiXu-	Finland	15:20
SpeedEvil	costs vary dramatically.	15:20
MiXu-	apparently :)	15:20
X-Fade	It is mostly a pain when you are roaming :)	15:20
X-Fade	But if you don't allow automatic roaming, you should be fine.	15:21
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adeus	yeah	15:21
MiXu-	Well if I travel abroad, I'll just switch PSD off.	15:21
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SpeedEvil	There is a difference between 'I want to read IRC for an hour' and 'I want several	15:22
Necc	well good for you, but not data plan increase is the solution to fix a monthly 85MB data waste as mobile internet is damn expensive here	15:22
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SpeedEvil	megabytes of update checked	15:22
Arif	unlimited data ftw	15:23
X-Fade	Necc: I agree, but do file a bug. It is the only way things will be fixed.	15:23
Necc	ok i'm on it but sorry i've a few real life things now and i response with delay :)	15:24
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mashiara	t-tan: whev... Blatant cross-posting about some of my kernel packaging ideas, please go see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=532091#post532091	15:24
t-tan	mashiara: thanks	15:24
X-Fade	What genius decided to upload a linux kernel to extras-devel non-free?	15:25
adeus	isn't there a Maintainer-row :)	15:26
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lcuk	X-Fade, fuck?	15:26
SpeedEvil	hmm. Force update of all repos generates 7M or so of traffic	15:26
SpeedEvil	Dunno what normal checking would do.	15:26
tybollt	yikes	15:26
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: A lot more actually.	15:26
lcuk	i had a kernel upgrade last night to correct version, didnt check its source because we have never had a kernel from extras	15:26
tybollt	frals: also, do you surf anything?	15:26
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Well, compressed yes.	15:26
lcuk	X-Fade, that should be removed im gonna reflash	15:27
SpeedEvil	X-Fade: I mean - tcp/ip as measured by ifconfig	15:27
frals	tybollt: yeah, i check news/t.m.o daily on the bus/metro	15:27
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Yeah, you are right.	15:27
frals	guess im just lucky and get all the apt updates when im on wlan :p	15:27
X-Fade	lcuk: No it is named differently.	15:27
X-Fade	lcuk: That should not cause an update for you.	15:27
lcuk	thats sorta a relief then	15:27
tybollt	frals: IIRC a big sites like aftonbladet/DN etc takes a couple of MB just for the one load...	15:28
lcuk	ok i had a proper kernel update	15:28
X-Fade	lcuk: AM won't allow that anyway.	15:28
frals	tybollt: adblock ;-)	15:28
frals	i think tele2s proxy eats some of it as well as im using that one	15:28
tybollt	frals: does it work for you? :S	15:28
frals	yes, flawless	15:28
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X-Fade	zimmerle: ping?	15:30
X-Fade	zimmerle: You're not supposed to uploaded a modified kernel package to extras-devel with modified binary targets.	15:30
frals	lcuk: kernelupdate? uname -a? ;)	15:31
X-Fade	zimmerle: This is not good: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/kernel/2.6.28-20100303+0m5/	15:31
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tybollt	frals: I installed it but doesn't make a lick of difference... I should get the "block" thingies but don't :-\|	15:34
tybollt	granted - haven't tried since 111	15:35
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Necc	X-Fade: "do file a bug" oookay and how should i do that? :)	15:36
adeus	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5137	15:37
povbot`	Bug 5137: Add option to disable/enable periodic apt updates	15:37
adeus	maybe that is relevant	15:37
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frals	gconftool -st int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 2147483647	15:38
frals	thats the workaround it seems	15:38
Laiska	Humm, just checking, is GL ES 1.x is now supported in the latest PR 1.1.1 update?	15:38
Necc	and it works for N900 too?	15:39
Necc	i read that solution, but it applies for N8x0 and no informations about it will works on N900	15:39
frals	could try	15:39
Necc	yes, OpenGL ES 1.1 is supported now in PR 1.1.1	15:40
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Necc	well i was able to execute "gconftool -st int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 2147483647" but no output	15:41
Necc	also i love that no 'man' on N900 :\| now i have no idea what i did	15:42
frals	~curse users	15:42
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, users !	15:42
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w00t	frals: g	15:43
frals	w00t: >_<	15:43
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kopte3	hi	15:49
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t-tan	X-Fade: there are two kernels in extras-devel (as discussed before): the broken one you just mentioned and my renamed one in non-free	15:50
kopte3	can somebody help me finding something?	15:50
X-Fade	t-tan: Yeah, broken one removed.	15:50
t-tan	X-Fade: is something wrong with uploading a renamed one to extras-devel?	15:50
X-Fade	t-tan: But the renamed one should really be in free.	15:50
t-tan	X-Fade: it depends on fiasco-gen, that's why it's not in free yet	15:51
Necc	kopte3: sure, if google was unable to help you	15:51
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X-Fade	t-tan: Then you really should just wait unfortunately.	15:51
kopte3	it's unable to help me.. :)	15:51
X-Fade	t-tan: Doing these direct uploads will only create a maintenance mess.	15:51
kopte3	ok.. i wanted to ask	15:51
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kopte3	where i can find thumbnails of desktop bookmarks	15:52
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t-tan	X-Fade: where is the policy for non-free? how should we know what to (not) do?	15:52
kopte3	i tried in /usr/share/bookmark-manager/thumbnails	15:52
t-tan	X-Fade: N900 users are fed up with waiting for months...	15:53
kopte3	but there are only thumbnails for preinstalled bookmarks	15:53
X-Fade	t-tan: Non-free software should go in non-free.	15:53
alterego	kopte3: I'd imagine it's in your home directory somewhere.	15:53
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t-tan	X-Fade: I've just emailed you a possible solution how to build it on autobuilder, so it could go to free	15:54
X-Fade	t-tan: And extras* is really all about users. We do what we can to make sure they aren't getting into a mes.	15:54
kopte3	yeah.. i know it's somewhere.. :) but i cannot find them	15:54
mece	kopte3, check under ~/.bookmarks	15:54
X-Fade	*mess	15:54
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t-tan	X-Fade: the kernel is actually non-free right now	15:54
kopte3	i will wait a sec :)	15:54
kopte3	tnx!	15:55
X-Fade	t-tan: Because?	15:55
mece	kopte3, /home/user/.bookmarks/MyBookmarks.xml	15:55
t-tan	X-Fade: it is "linked"/modified with a non-free binary called fiasco-gen	15:56
* R4lph is away : I'm working... [=P= LogON]		15:56
X-Fade	t-tan: That is only the packaging. Doesn't make it non-free.	15:56
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alterego	It's not like it depends on it ...	15:56
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kopte3	great guys! thanks a lot!	15:57
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t-tan	if you cannot reproduce the binary with free tools it's a GPL violation	15:57
kopte3	bye ;)	15:57
t-tan	but it's a legal grey area	15:58
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X-Fade	t-tan: well, you can.	15:58
X-Fade	t-tan: It needs to install on device, which is different.	15:59
X-Fade	t-tan: More a platform requirement than anything else.	15:59
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SpeedEvil	what is fiasco used for? Is it simply to flash the kernel to the right 'partition' ?	16:00
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t-tan	X-Fade: you could view it as a "firmware linked" to the kernel which is necessary to execute to kernel-on device. without that you need workarounds the distributed Nokia kernel package doesnt need	16:01
SpeedEvil	If so - I don't see how it's a GPL violation - as you can flash non-GPL kernels onto the device	16:01
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X-Fade	SpeedEvil: It is only needed in the install phase.	16:01
Stskeeps	t-tan: it isn't needed to execute kernel on device.	16:01
SpeedEvil	Any more than - say - ftp is required to be GPLd to fetch the kernel sources	16:02
t-tan	SpeedEvil: it modifies the kernel image for flashing	16:02
Stskeeps	t-tan: it is a packaging format, not a linked item	16:02
t-tan	Stskeeps: that's the legal grey area	16:02
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Stskeeps	besides that	16:03
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Stskeeps	fiasco-gen in non-free was what we could do very quickly	16:03
Stskeeps	open sourcing takes time.	16:03
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t-tan	I don't want to get into GPL fights, I just want to help other people to get easy access to enhanced kernels	16:04
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Stskeeps	of course	16:04
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X-Fade	t-tan: Don't want to hold you back of course.	16:07
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paroneayea	is it true that meego isn't going to be running X11, an instead that piece of shit qt windowing system?	16:12
w00t	false	16:12
Andrewfblack	anyone setup n900 to connect to a network that provides the WEP when you connect?	16:12
paroneayea	w00t: whew. Any information to back that up?	16:13
Stskeeps	paroneayea: X11, for sure	16:13
paroneayea	ah okay	16:13
w00t	paroneayea: somewhere on meego.com	16:13
paroneayea	that is a huuuuuuge relief	16:13
w00t	paroneayea: give me a moment	16:13
w00t	http://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process	16:13
w00t	paroneayea: also, #meego might be a better place for this	16:13
paroneayea	yes true	16:13
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mgedmin	Andrewfblack, no; WPA here	16:13
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paroneayea	w00t: I joined there a couple of days ago, it was a madhouse, maybe because of questions just like the ones I asked ;)	16:14
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paroneayea	but true	16:14
* w00t nods		16:14
w00t	it's calmer now	16:14
Andrewfblack	work network uses Root cert and have to setup to accept WEP from server but don't see that option on N900 could have sworn it was on N810	16:14
* Arif yawns		16:15
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Necc	Andrewfblack: if you use wifi and WEP security, there're a bug that N900 lacks some function about it. There're a bug at bugs.maemo.org and set as: wontfix but planned to fixed on maemo6 (sorry i don't remember exact details)	16:24
nid0	tbh, heres hoping m6 just disables wep or plants a big "l2security" sign over the option	16:25
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sobczyk	is there a reason why probably X is crashing on my n900 when connecting to an unprotected wifi network?	16:27
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Kegetys	security measure to stop you from using such networks	16:30
sobczyk	yeah right	16:30
mgedmin	X is crashing?	16:31
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sobczyk	probably it's X because I see the dots splash an then the nokia splash	16:31
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mgedmin	cat /proc/boot_reason ?	16:32
sobczyk	sw_rst	16:33
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mgedmin	head /var/lib/dsme/stats/*	16:34
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mgedmin	I think one of the lines in /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts ought to have a little * next to it	16:35
mgedmin	telling which core system process died and caused the lifeguard to reboot your n900	16:35
mgedmin	hm or maybe no	16:35
Stskeeps	mgedmin: could you be lured to log #meego, btw?	16:35
mgedmin	I have a lifeguard_restarts and a .bak file	16:35
mgedmin	diffing them tells me camera-ui restarts increased by one	16:36
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mgedmin	actually, restarts is about restarting processes, innit?	16:36
mgedmin	it's resets that's about rebooting the device?	16:36
mgedmin	Stskeeps, sigh okay sure	16:36
mgedmin	supybot is a kind of a paint to configure	16:36
mgedmin	maybe I should write a script	16:36
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sobczyk	/usr/bin/ohm-session-agent: 1 (...) camera-ui:8 (...) syncd: 1	16:36
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mgedmin	Stskeeps, do you want bug number translations in #meego?	16:37
sobczyk	theres a bak too with two first lines the same	16:37
mgedmin	do they use the maemo bugzilla or will meego have their own bug tracker?	16:37
Stskeeps	mgedmin: let's wait with that until there's answer on meego bugtracker	16:37
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brady47	I think they said their own bugzilla would be setup soon	16:38
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brady47	don't know if they are gonna transfer over any stuff from maemo bz tho	16:38
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alterego	Jesus, how old are these people arguing over RPM vs. DEB?	16:46
thresh	i'm 14!	16:46
alterego	Hah	16:46
alterego	Oh niceOMAP2 MBX drivers are out :D	16:47
Stskeeps	a lot of stuff happening these days	16:48
w00t	alterego: people will argue over a lot of things, the difficult bit is getting them to follow through on the arguments :-)	16:48
SpeedEvil	I'm 12, what is this?	16:48
RST38h	Stskeeps: Ice Age!	16:48
w00t	SpeedEvil: diaf	16:48
sejo	hmm the new maemo update is there a changelog somewhere?	16:48
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alterego	Stskeeps: Nice about the thumbs up/down of planet maemo, sticks your post right on the front page. :)	16:49
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alterego	meego is old news now ^.^	16:49
RST38h	Stskeeps: We should elect the Sabre Toothed Squirrel, together with the council members	16:49
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petteri	whats up the disappearing maemo 6 interface videos. They appear on my rss feed, but they are not really available?	16:50
petteri	anyone got proper link to those?	16:50
RST38h	petteri: Nokia removed them	16:50
alterego	RST38h: any idea why yet?	16:50
RST38h	alterego: Does it matter?	16:50
alterego	S'pose not ..	16:50
RST38h	Probably they were too early	16:50
X-Fade	Packages are still in extras-devel btw.	16:51
petteri	RST38h: ok, thanks	16:51
X-Fade	petteri: apt-get install dui-demos	16:51
alterego	In a related question, was that just QtCreator used to develop on that video?	16:51
Bluewind	the gui package manager shows me teh packages of the new fireware but neither the update function nor apt-get dist-upgrade see them. ideas?	16:51
X-Fade	with extras-devel enabled.	16:51
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petteri	X-Fade: thanks, will try to find link from the web interface of the repo	16:52
X-Fade	petteri: Installs quite some packages, so better use apt-get ;)	16:52
petteri	X-Fade: ah ok	16:53
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t-tan	X-Fade: can a package in autobuilder download some file while building?	16:57
X-Fade	t-tan: no	16:58
X-Fade	t-tan: Every sane builder has no outside access.	16:58
t-tan	X-Fade: hmm, bad. then my workaround wont work :(	16:59
X-Fade	t-tan: I'm thinking you are going to expose your key ;)	16:59
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t-tan	X-Fade: I have only tried with fiasco-gen in the builddeps, but actually the package should be sdk-fiasco-gen. would autobuilder install that package or just fail?	17:01
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t-tan	X-Fade: because it's only in the latest SDK	17:01
X-Fade	t-tan: It will fail becaue it is not in the that version of the sdk.	17:02
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t-tan	X-Fade: :( that's what I expected. so would you mind if I upload kernel-maemo to non-free till the SDK is updated in autobuider?	17:03
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sobczyk	which python qt4 bindings are preffered (pyside or python2.5)?	17:23
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* Arif sneezes at the N900 conversations app		17:25
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Arif	It needs a font size option!	17:26
Arif	:)	17:26
Arif	:(	17:26
Kegetys	and an option to turn off the sound/vibrate for skype group chats	17:27
Arif	I don't have anyone to skype with	17:27
* Arif cries in a corner		17:27
Arif	I only use MSN / IRC	17:28
mece	Arif, isn't conversations is css? You can change the font in the css file. There's a thread somewhere..	17:28
Kegetys	its quite annoying when a bunch of other people start chatting in the middle of the night and the device starts beeping and whirring on the table for hours on end	17:28
Arif	mece, if I knew what I was doing maybe =}	17:28
Arif	Kegetys, hint: go offline when you sleep!	17:28
Kegetys	then I wont get private messages either	17:29
Arif	use a bouncer :P	17:29
Arif	hmm I was thinking	17:30
Arif	can't you set different statuses for different accounts	17:30
mece	Arif, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36618	17:30
mece	Arif, you can have a custom status, that have custom statuses for each account.	17:30
Arif	I want to be online on my VoiP account but offline on MSN	17:30
Arif	does that count as custom?	17:31
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mece	Arif, just go to my availability, new status, and choose what status each service want.	17:32
Arif	oo, I didn't know that .. :D	17:33
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BBNS	Bonjour!	17:33
mece	Arif, good luck with that. gotta go. toodles.	17:33
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pupnik_	anybody got a Opengl ES 1.1 test app built?	17:46
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Arif	hmm	17:49
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Arif	does ový store accept other means to pay than credýt cards? :O	17:49
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javispedro	pupnik: what do you want? I can send you the "interesting" file from a bigger app that I have	17:52
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javispedro	eitherway any GLES2 sample will suffice,	17:53
javispedro	the changes are minimal	17:53
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javispedro	just swap -lGLESv2 for -lGLES_CM	17:54
pupnik_	acha	17:54
pupnik_	theres that nice scroller maryo world	17:55
javispedro	that's SDL?	17:55
pupnik_	sdl+gl	17:55
javispedro	when I finish my current project (SDL+hildon input method) I plan to start SDL GLES "addon"	17:55
javispedro	without patching the maemo sdl	17:55
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javispedro	the SDL+him stuff should fix the rover.sys issue once for all, I hope.	17:56
pupnik_	hmm	17:56
pupnik_	that is wonderful	17:56
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pupnik_	that should be +500 karma right there	17:57
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satmd	can I make n900 prefer sip over mobile?	18:05
dazo	satmd: I believe over 3G should work fine ... it's all about the available bandwidth	18:05
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satmd	well, I mean	18:06
satmd	a way to chose sip calls rather than regular calls	18:06
dazo	ahh	18:06
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satmd	something along simple call routing rules	18:06
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* dazo is very much satisfied with the latest m5 update ... battery consumption is reduced quite drastically, he might not need to charge the phone in the evening today ....		18:07
javispedro	yeah, it seems they fixed a "quite-common-but-I-never experienced-it" Wifi battery-draining bug	18:08
Brendan[BP]	lucky for you dazo!	18:08
Wild_Doogy	you make me want to buy a sim card so I can update my N900	18:08
Arif	My N900 lasts 3 days on a charge	18:08
Arif	o.o	18:08
Brendan[BP]	mines still a battery eater	18:08
pupnik_	brb	18:08
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Corsac	yeah, since I removed quite a lot of apps it stays up really long	18:08
toggles_w	Arif: wow! i assume no wifi	18:08
Brendan[BP]	i had to remove a whole bunch to install update	18:08
Arif	only when I use it	18:08
Arif	which is a few hours a day	18:08
Corsac	not sure if it was camkeyd or the jack headphone daemon	18:09
javispedro	toggles_w: mine's gets 2 and a bit days with wi-fi on 24h	18:09
Brendan[BP]	got sooo many crappy apps on there that i dnt need haha	18:09
Arif	like 5-6	18:09
toggles_w	wow, i'm lucky to get 10hrs with wifi	18:09
Arif	and 3 hours of radio streaming on 3G	18:09
Arif	:p	18:09
javispedro	toggles_w: ap failure	18:09
Brendan[BP]	yeah im lucky for 10hrs too	18:09
* toggles_w carries a spare battery		18:09
Brendan[BP]	hahahah	18:09
Brendan[BP]	i want a spare batt	18:09
Arif	I don't use mail/IM that much	18:09
Arif	maybe that's why :D	18:09
Brendan[BP]	thought about getting one but i know id forget it	18:09
Wild_Doogy	Question: I assume that while the possessor is at 250 Mhz, it consumes the least power, but while its at that speed, does it matter how much it is being used?	18:09
valdyn	Wild_Doogy: most certainly	18:10
javispedro	I have 30minutes POP3 mail checker on, and xmpp & skype enabled	18:10
toggles_w	javispedro: ap failure? the only thing i can think of that i have running is the cpu mon	18:10
Brendan[BP]	my mail check is every 5mins	18:10
Arif	I'm not interesting enough to get mail ;P	18:10
Brendan[BP]	for exchange	18:10
javispedro	toggles_w: may not support wi-fi power savings.	18:10
dazo	Before the latest update (which I got yesterday), it lasted 10-12 hours, with wifi on constantly ... SIP, MSN and ICQ logged in most of the time ... but today, it's like the battery still got 75% after 7-8 hours	18:11
Brendan[BP]	anyone think theyll every give the ability to hav a secondary exchange off ur primary account	18:11
Wild_Doogy	AKA, is no apts running, and a small-amount-but-not-enough-to-kick-it-into-500MHz the same amperage usage?	18:11
toggles_w	yeah, could be the router	18:11
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valdyn	Wild_Doogy: no	18:11
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javispedro	dazo: I have this feeling the extra telepathy plugins are not easy on the battery	18:11
Wild_Doogy	ok, thanks good to know.	18:12
valdyn	Wild_Doogy: i dont know this cpu arch, but since even older intel chips have sleep states, this one surely does	18:12
dazo	javispedro: I'm using the haze version ... but I didn't notice much difference in consumption before and after installing that one	18:12
Arif	I'm waiting for file transfer support for all those plugins :P	18:12
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Brendan[BP]	Pecan seems to eat up battery like crazy for me	18:13
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Brendan[BP]	3hrs hard use battery goes down pretty darn low	18:13
dazo	Brendan[BP]: have you checked with powertop?	18:13
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* javispedro looks at this n800... last recharge: sunday. still at 50%.		18:13
javispedro	s/n800/n810	18:13
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Brendan[BP]	dazo no i havnt as of yet, i monitored it for a day with bateye	18:13
* Arif throws an N910 at javispedro		18:14
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* javispedro grabs N910 and uses it to time travel		18:14
dazo	Brendan[BP]: I haven't tried bateye .... Will try that one when I see how the battery situation will be after a few days	18:15
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Brendan[BP]	dazo excellent, am curious to know how other peoples are going	18:15
dazo	:)	18:15
Brendan[BP]	any ideas on the Exchange tho	18:15
Brendan[BP]	ØS	18:15
Brendan[BP]	**:S	18:16
* dazo just want to be sure he can point at bateye if the battery begins to drain again :-P		18:16
Brendan[BP]	dazo hahah you sure can!	18:16
Corsac	bateye is really nice	18:17
Corsac	and doesn't seem to take too much battery	18:17
Corsac	but that way I can monitor how much battery my various usages take	18:17
Brendan[BP]	mmm yeah ill give you that battery consumption is seemingly low with bateye	18:17
dazo	Brendan[BP]: well, I'm not using any automatic poll on my IMAP accounts .... but I believe that can also affect a lot, especially when you're using 5min poll time .... Not sure how Exchange proto is compared to IMAP also, in regards to energy consumption	18:17
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Brendan[BP]	dazo nar i wasnt talking about that i was more talking about the implementation of the ability to add a secondary exchange account hanging off the primary	18:18
Brendan[BP]	as i have a work email and a personal both off same exchange server, diff domains ofc but the personal is techincally a sub of my primary account	18:19
dazo	Brendan[BP]: ahh ... sorry ... I'm more of the anti-exchange guys .... don't understand why MS had to reimplement the IMAP protocol :-P	18:19
Brendan[BP]	nawww i love exchange!	18:19
Brendan[BP]	crap that reminds me needa go onto Kaseya irc now	18:20
Brendan[BP]	:(	18:20
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* satmd also wants to disable the sip chat feature		18:20
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* dazo is a firm believer in open standards ... and avoid as many proprietary solutions as possible, wherever he can		18:21
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dazo	which is why I found N900 to be the best mobile phone on the marked right now	18:21
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satmd	same here	18:22
lardman	I received a skype call from Oz this morning, was pretty good, quite impressed how seemless the whole thing was	18:22
lardman	in fact probably less laggy than one via a sat, less fibre to travel through ;)	18:22
javispedro	Skype is very good on the N900 IMHO.	18:22
javispedro	it's the first thing I did on mine :)	18:23
lardman	would be good to get the video feature working though	18:23
lardman	I've never bothered as I get free landline calls to the UK and very cheap to abroad	18:23
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timeless_mbp	satmd: sip handling is much nicer in the next major release	18:23
javispedro	I have free Wi-Fi on most places I go, so it's nice.	18:23
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satmd	timeless_mbp: oh... do you have any info about sip video support yet? ;)	18:24
toggles_w	timeless_mbp: please elaborate!	18:24
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timeless_mbp	satmd: nope, i'm just calling my sister and parents	18:25
timeless_mbp	and it's now remembering which service i used to call a normal phone number	18:25
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lardman	using new improved sip support? ;)	18:25
satmd	:D	18:26
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* toggles_w looks at his poor n900 in a tub of rice		18:26
Hydroxide	hi ... can anyone tell me the correct incantation to import a non-default root CA into my n900 so that MicroB, OpenSSL, etc will recognize websites signed directly or indirectly by that CA?	18:26
lardman	toggles_w: did it get wet?	18:26
X-Fade	toggles_w: Not the toilet I hope? )	18:26
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toggles_w	lardman: yup, washed it monday night, hope to rescue it from the rice in a few hours	18:26
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lardman	good luck!	18:26
toggles_w	thx	18:26
nidO	good old tek7 for that lil tip	18:27
X-Fade	toggles_w: Battery removed?	18:27
SpeedEvil	Rice is a bad idea.	18:27
toggles_w	yup	18:27
SpeedEvil	It does not remove that much water.	18:27
timeless_mbp	Hydroxide: you can use a normal firefox to add a certificate authority root	18:27
timeless_mbp	and then copy the proper database files to your n900	18:27
toggles_w	SpeedEvil: best i have	18:27
SpeedEvil	80C in an oven or a drying cabinet for 24h.	18:27
nidO	it removes it better than just about anything else that people tend to have lying round	18:27
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lardman	SpeedEvil: dessicant?	18:27
SpeedEvil	Most people have ovens.	18:27
Hydroxide	timeless_mbp: but I can't do it from the n900 directly?	18:27
nidO	a decent amount of silica crystals are hard to come by	18:27
timeless_mbp	Hydroxide: you can	18:27
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SpeedEvil	You do need to verify that it is in fact at 80C though	18:28
lardman	airing cupboard, or by the hotwater tank	18:28
timeless_mbp	but it'll probably be easier to use a normal computer	18:28
SpeedEvil	(or dissasemble)	18:28
Brendan[BP]	buy lots of nachos and get the dessicant packets out of them hahah	18:28
* timeless_mbp is on an international call		18:28
Hydroxide	timeless_mbp: I tried opening the cert with the file manager, and it installed but didn't actually seem to get treated as a CA cert	18:28
lardman	not in the hotwater tank though ;)	18:28
timeless_mbp	Hydroxide: well	18:28
timeless_mbp	if it isn't a ca cert	18:28
Hydroxide	it is :)	18:28
timeless_mbp	then your cert is broken and your expectations are wrong	18:28
timeless_mbp	url?	18:28
* javispedro fries an USB SATA Bridge chip		18:29
timeless_mbp	javispedro: congrats	18:29
Hydroxide	I scp'ed it from /etc/ssl/certs on a trusted debian machine to avoid needing to verify fingerprints, but it's downloadable here: http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/spi-cacert.crt	18:29
javispedro	worst thing is that I don't know what I did, but it's now way too hot to touch.	18:29
Hydroxide	timeless_mbp: see ^^ - on my copy it ends in .pem instead of .crt but hopefully the certificate manager won't behave differently because of that	18:30
Hydroxide	timeless_mbp: it's also possible that it got installed but the MicroB browser doesn't support dealing with intermediate certs - hopefully it does though since gecko can handle it fine in general	18:31
Hydroxide	that's the root - the site I'm trying to access has one intermediate in between.	18:31
timeless_mbp	is the site publicly available?	18:31
Hydroxide	https://penta.debconf.org/ for example ...	18:32
Hydroxide	anything SSLified on Debian or DebConf	18:32
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Hydroxide	I highly doubt debian/debconf sysadmins got this wrong :) [no, I'm not one of them]	18:33
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satmd	Hydroxide: get the certificate file, store it on the filesystem, use the file manager to open the .crt, voila	18:33
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dazo	toggles_w: I've heard some people having had such incidents before ... and what they did, they opened the soaked device, took out those parts which will not be destroyed by water (loudspeakers, microphones) ... which usually meant the circuit boards .... and put it into a big container containing disinfected water .... and a lot of it .... so that all possible dirt are loosened up	18:33
LuciusMare	hi, i have a question about the meego - how open will it be?	18:33
mgedmin	disinfected or distilled?	18:33
Hydroxide	satmd: that's what I tried. it didn't work. though my copy is named .pem - will it behave differently if I rename it to .crt first?	18:33
Hydroxide	satmd: (it's the same certificate, just grabbed from /etc/ssl/certs/ on a Debian machine)	18:34
satmd	openssl x509 -in file.pem -out file.crt -inform PEM -outform DER	18:34
dazo	toggles_w: then after a few hours in that water .... it was time to dry it in a warm room .... wiping off as much of the water as possible, and let it air-dry the rest for a day	18:34
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Hydroxide	satmd: does it need to be in DER format specifically or just have the .crt extension?	18:34
dazo	toggles_w: one guy did this on a couple of different devices with big success	18:34
satmd	Hydroxide: you can try both	18:34
lardman	bye	18:34
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Hydroxide	satmd: ok. it's definitely worth a try. are you guessing or do you know it'll have different behavior?	18:35
dazo	mgedmin: distilled	18:35
Hydroxide	oh, and should I have to restart my n900 for this to take effect, or just quit all browser windows and pkill browserd?	18:35
satmd	well, .pem seems not to be tied to the cert manager	18:35
satmd	I'm not sure the cert manager will do content mangling	18:35
dazo	toggles_w: distilled water, I meant .... mgedmin gave me the correct word :)	18:35
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dazo	LuciusMare: I believe as open as maemo and moblin is today ... but #meego might give better answers	18:37
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timeless_mbp	Hydroxide: so um	18:38
timeless_mbp	betting that debian people get crypto right	18:38
timeless_mbp	is a terrible idea	18:38
timeless_mbp	that said, the cert installs fine w/ firefox on my mac	18:38
dazo	hahaha	18:38
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LuciusMare	hrj	18:39
* Hydroxide decides not to get into that particular potential flamewar :)		18:39
dazo	timeless_mbp: are you thinking about the openssl incident a couple of years ago? ;-)	18:39
timeless_mbp	dazo: why not? :)	18:39
timeless_mbp	there are other cases too fwiw	18:39
Hydroxide	timeless_mbp: note I referred to the sysadmins. I didn't refer to "debian developers fixing a bug in openssl after consulting upstream about their proposed fix"	18:40
timeless_mbp	there are some debian people who are very pro <what was that ca that never got audited?>	18:40
dazo	timeless_mbp: yeah, nobody is perfect :)	18:40
Hydroxide	timeless_mbp: in any case, they definitely know how to make a valid CA cert	18:40
timeless_mbp	Hydroxide: step 1. break open ssl. step 2. use the broken ssl to generate a CA cert	18:40
dazo	In general, trusting one single unity in regards to security and encryption is the first mistake	18:40
timeless_mbp	:)	18:40
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Hydroxide	timeless_mbp: there is a reason why they regenerated their CA cert after that incident... :)	18:41
dazo	yup :)	18:41
* timeless_mbp was just going to check the dates on the cert		18:41
Hydroxide	it's a 2008 cert, after openssl was fixed	18:41
timeless_mbp	may 2008	18:41
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timeless_mbp	i was also thinking of cacert fwiw	18:42
timeless_mbp	anyway, there's a package in extras-something	18:43
timeless_mbp	which gives you the mozilla crypto dialogs	18:43
timeless_mbp	i think you won't need that package in the next browser upgrade	18:44
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timeless_mbp	"microb-engine-comment-ext"	18:44
* timeless_mbp frowns		18:45
timeless_mbp	the phone application is a bit slow here	18:45
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slonopotamus	hmm... how i check if autobuilder's going to build my pkg? :)	18:46
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slonopotamus	or how long i should wait before it starts	18:47
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woglinde	jo	18:47
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slonopotamus	and how i see how many packages before mine are in queue?	18:48
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timeless_mbp	!summon konttori	18:49
timeless_mbp	the icon dropping algorithm for Call in portrait is a bit challenged	18:49
slonopotamus	and what idiot made usb connector that way	18:49
woglinde	slonopotamus hm there is no option	18:50
X-Fade	slonopotamus: there are none waiting.	18:50
X-Fade	slonopotamus: But there is virtually no wait queue anymore.	18:50
X-Fade	slonopotamus: As we have sufficient hardware now.	18:50
slonopotamus	X-Fade, hmm... where i uploaded it to then? :)	18:50
X-Fade	slonopotamus: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-February/017245.html	18:51
X-Fade	This one?	18:51
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timeless_mbp	Hydroxide: fwiw	18:51
timeless_mbp	the SiPI cert kinda sucks	18:51
timeless_mbp	the name of their CA is "Certificate Authority"	18:51
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timeless_mbp	which is hardly professional	18:51
timeless_mbp	which isn't to say that all CAs get this right	18:51
Hydroxide	yes, that was actually less stupid before they regenerated it	18:52
slonopotamus	X-Fade, err... where you got link to it? yep, it's mine.	18:52
nidO	sigh, nokia + the uk hate is wearing thin now	18:52
timeless_mbp	actually, lemme take that back	18:52
X-Fade	slonopotamus: You should have gotten that mail too.	18:52
timeless_mbp	real ca's generally don't get that terribly wrong	18:52
X-Fade	slonopotamus: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-February/date.html#end	18:52
timeless_mbp	corporate ca's generally do get that terribly wrong	18:52
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Hydroxide	at the same time, it's not like "Equifax Secure Global Business CA-1" or such is any more meaningful - it just sounds more meaningful	18:52
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slonopotamus	craaap	18:52
Hydroxide	the company that owns it isn't even Equifax :)	18:53
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Hydroxide	(it's GeoTrust)	18:53
slonopotamus	newest messages at bottom :)	18:53
Wild_Doogy	does anyone know if there is a plug-in so I can take lower quality pictures with my N900 so I can email them easier?	18:54
timeless_mbp	Hydroxide: it was when it was originally created	18:54
slonopotamus	X-Fade, uploading docs didn't say anything about signing...more than that, dput config file explicitely allows unsigned uploads.	18:54
timeless_mbp	but the thing is you don't generally see two rows	18:54
timeless_mbp	which means you will see "signed by Certificate Authority"	18:54
timeless_mbp	which is utterly useless	18:54
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timeless_mbp	i saw something like that when i went to delete your CA	18:54
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slonopotamus	ah, i guess i need to _remove_ signature	18:55
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X-Fade	slonopotamus: Is it your signature?	18:56
DarkGUNMAN	<Wild_Doogy> You could use GIMP in Easy Debian to resize the picture	18:56
slonopotamus	X-Fade, nope, i tried to upload debian package asis	18:57
slonopotamus	will fix it now...	18:58
Wild_Doogy	DarkGUNMAN: Thanks, I don't have easy Debian yet? think I should get it? (will it let me run Ubuntu apps?)	18:59
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cehteh	Wild_Doogy: the 'sharing' stuff lets you scale down a picture and email it	19:02
_andy	Hi.	19:02
_andy	when I boot my device it says "Malfunction ! Device shutdown in 10s"	19:02
slonopotamus	X-Fade, do i need to upload two .changes files, for arm and x86?	19:02
_andy	will this prevent me from reflashing teh firmware over usb?	19:02
cehteh	you could try at least	19:03
slonopotamus	X-Fade, if yes, how i generate them without rebuilding?	19:03
_andy	cahteh: i did try.. it didn't work but i've never flashed it before so I don't know if i'm doing something wrong or if the device is not flashable	19:03
cehteh	if you follow the instructions, flashing should work fine .. but i never heared about this 'malfunction' error, sounds somewhat serious	19:04
cehteh	maybe its really broken	19:04
_andy	cahteh: its not hardware, ii messed with /usr/lib.	19:05
slonopotamus	is there a single-command way to switch sb target?	19:05
Wild_Doogy	cehteh: thanks, thats what I needed to know.	19:05
cehteh	_andy: then flashing should work	19:05
* RST38h moos at slonopotamus		19:06
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slonopotamus	RST38h, aye	19:06
cehteh	~ $ groups	19:06
cehteh	-sh: groups: not found	19:06
cehteh	.. how i like this :PO	19:06
slonopotamus	RST38h, trying to use sb :)	19:07
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slonopotamus	:(	19:07
pupnik	there is sb-(tab)	19:07
slonopotamus	okaay	19:07
pupnik	not menu, set iirc	19:07
Corsac	in soviet russia, sb uses you	19:07
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slonopotamus	woah, it builds my thing	19:08
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cehteh	RST38h: i am going to work on a xchat notification light plugin, would you package it with xchat, i have no intention to go the packaging route for this by myself	19:09
RST38h	cehteh: Of course, let me know when you are ready and I will import it. There is a few more little changes pending too	19:10
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RST38h	slonopotamus: I suggest sb2	19:10
cehteh	ok thanks	19:10
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cehteh	may take a bit	19:11
RST38h	slonopotamus: There you change with maemo-sdk, or supply a few command line parameters to avid going through menus	19:11
RST38h	cehteh: Afaik, it is sufficient to have a shell script that blinks the led, xchat will invoke it	19:11
woglinde	hm	19:11
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woglinde	with meego it seems to me that sb/sb2 is dead too	19:11
cehteh	RST38h: not really .. it blinks but you cant turn it properly off	19:11
RST38h	oh, yes	19:11
RST38h	cehteh: it does not invoke the script to cancel it, correct :)	19:12
RST38h	woglinde: remember, we are still at maemo5	19:12
cehteh	i am going to do this in C, written a xchat plugin before, not really a big deal	19:12
woglinde	rst g	19:12
woglinde	I know	19:12
cehteh	there is the hack on t.m.o to hook that script into the sound-playing bing	19:12
* RST38h will probably get to use maeblin toolchains at work soon though		19:12
woglinde	but I live in future sometimes	19:12
kokosz	what are you guys using for irc on n900? irssi or xchat? whats better?	19:12
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RST38h	cehteh: Make sure you do not use any timers.	19:13
cehteh	no i hook it into xchats notification things	19:13
RST38h	cehteh: Any running timer will basically prevent Maemo from sleeping and waste battery	19:13
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* RST38h wonders where qwerty is		19:13
cehteh	thats my intention, doing this in a 'correct' way	19:14
cehteh	hacks dont scale :P	19:14
RST38h	some do =)	19:14
pupnik	who got rid of ctrl-g for bell	19:14
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_andy	cahteh i am happy to report it was windows driver weirdness.. flashing in an ubuntu vm worked.	19:15
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* RST38h imagines flashing from ubunutu vm and cringes involuntarily		19:15
mgedmin	wow, a vm that supports usb	19:17
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woglinde	RST38h seem he is only available via email	19:17
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red	hmm	19:24
red	after the 1.1.1 update my screen never dims	19:24
red	unless I lock it	19:25
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red	anyone experienced the same?	19:25
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valdyn	red: theres an always on switch for the screen, checked that its off?	19:26
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red	ofcourse	19:27
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red	i did have flipclock installed priod to update, which had a feature of keeping the screen forced on while it's running	19:27
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red	so not quite sure if its a leftover bug from it, i uninstalled it before updating to 1.1.1	19:27
valdyn	red: could be	19:27
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red	it indeed is a bug in flipclock	19:29
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red	ill see if tweaking the dim timeout back and forth resolves it	19:29
red	works yay	19:29
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toggles_w	dazo: thanks, mine was showing a light when i rescued it, so i'm hoping it'll be ok, will know in a few hours	19:41
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pupnik	how often do you use the N900? i keep pulling it out to look up things. maybe 80 times a day	19:43
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woglinde	uahhahaa	19:45
woglinde	http://www.aavamobile.com/	19:45
woglinde	FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!	19:45
Kegetys	x86 phone... no thanks	19:45
javispedro	capacitive :(	19:46
Wild_Doogy	does Toggles_W stand for toggles_wet as you are currently toggeling your N900's state from "Wet" to "Dry"?	19:46
woglinde	they claim that they are FIRST	19:46
woglinde	thats the point	19:46
Wild_Doogy	lol	19:46
javispedro	ah well, everybody does it these days.	19:46
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javispedro	it's just that they try to follow Apple, but only Apple has the story-rewriting RDF.	19:47
woglinde	okay	19:47
woglinde	bye	19:47
javispedro	;)	19:47
woglinde	till later	19:47
woglinde	heading home	19:47
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Wild_Doogy	javispedro: Why dont you like capacitive? (just curious)	19:47
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javispedro	Wild_Doogy: cause I like a stylus.	19:47
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Wild_Doogy	oh, me too, but I would like to mess with multitouch	19:48
Wild_Doogy	is there such a thing as a capacitive stylus?	19:48
javispedro	fine. But I prefer a stylus to multitouch and as you can guess multitouch with a stylus doesn't make much sense.	19:48
Wild_Doogy	(must be)	19:48
Kegetys	multistylus	19:48
javispedro	there are capacitive stylus, but they all suck.	19:49
javispedro	see the tip.	19:49
Wild_Doogy	oh lol	19:49
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Wild_Doogy	multi-stylus, hahaha	19:49
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Wild_Doogy	its called fingernails	19:49
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Kegetys	as easy as eating with chopsticks	19:50
SaBer	a sausage works as a capacitive stylus	19:50
Wild_Doogy	hahaha	19:50
Wild_Doogy	rolling on the floor over here	19:50
Wild_Doogy	-smear-	19:51
Wild_Doogy	-click- -smear-	19:51
javispedro	smeegol	19:51
aSIMULAtor	isn't it there was a news article about how koreans are using this type of sausage as a stylus	19:51
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javispedro	lol it's true.	19:52
aSIMULAtor	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/iphone-sausage-stylus-kor_n_459845.html	19:52
javispedro	http://asia.cnet.com/i/r/2010/crave/hp/63016968/iphone_520x347.jpg	19:52
CutMeOwnThroat	mmm, sausage inna bun, anyone?	19:52
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Arkenoi	my pdair case just arrived.	19:52
aSIMULAtor	that's waht she said	19:52
aSIMULAtor	:P	19:52
Wild_Doogy	we develop multi million dollar stylus, Koreans use sausage	19:52
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javispedro	Wild_Doogy: s/sausage/$10 sausage/	19:52
ponyofdeath	hi, wondering if someone could help me out on what process they used to import their contacts from iphone to nokia n900 csv file doesnt work	19:53
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Arkenoi	pros: reasonably good quality, everything is accessible	19:53
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Arkenoi	cons: tick and keyboard is under the transparent film	19:53
javispedro	...for a moment I though you were talking about the sausage stylus.	19:53
Wild_Doogy	ponyofdeath: I had some luck with contact cards. you end up with hundreds, but it LOOKS like you can combine then all into one card	19:55
Wild_Doogy	.vcf or something	19:55
ponyofdeath	Wild_Doogy: ok cool i think someone documented that http://allurgroceries.com/iphone2n900/	19:55
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Wild_Doogy	welcome	19:56
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Wild_Doogy	now, can anyone help me get my contacts out of yahoo mail? >_>	19:57
Wild_Doogy	currently it looks like I will be one-by-oneing it	19:57
slonopotamus	Wild_Doogy, no imap/pop3?	19:57
flipouk	Hello	19:58
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flipouk	Is it normal that I haven't got the update to 3.2010.02-8?	19:58
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flipouk	I mean on the N900?	19:58
Wild_Doogy	that costs money :-D	19:59
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Wild_Doogy	not @ you flip	19:59
flipouk	;-)	19:59
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slonopotamus	... n800 control panel doesn't want to swap to external sd :/	19:59
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flipouk	Sorry, is it the right channel for N900-related discussions?	20:00
Wild_Doogy	yes	20:00
slonopotamus	swapon to resque!	20:00
slonopotamus	flipouk, yep	20:00
flipouk	ok	20:00
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smhar	will the new Nokia/Intel alliance kill maemo? will the new Meego be the future of Maemo? will N900 run Meego?	20:01
Wild_Doogy	flip version 3X of what?	20:01
flipouk	Wild_Doogy: I refer to the firmware update, you know the minor one that popped up earlier this week	20:01
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* Arif demands a faster app manager in the next firmware :P		20:02
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pupnik	smhar GOTO talk.maemo.org for endless chatter about that	20:02
Wild_Doogy	I should probably see what my version is then	20:03
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flipouk	Wild_Doogy: do you mind checking? You would have noticed a firmware update though, wouldn't you?	20:03
ShadowJK	flipouk, it doesn't change anything for maemo5 and n900	20:03
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flipouk	I am in the UK... Maybe Brits get served later ;-)	20:04
ShadowJK	Probably maemo6 wont be fully meego either	20:04
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javispedro	it's just m6 renamed to meego, this was confirmed previously (they will keep using .deb, etc.)	20:04
ShadowJK	flipouk, got n900 from voda or other operator?	20:04
flipouk	ShadowJK: I bought it directly from Nokia.	20:05
flipouk	And I am on O2	20:05
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Arif	what's the difference between those firmwares anyway o_o	20:06
ShadowJK	hm	20:06
ShadowJK	arif: nobody knows	20:06
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Wild_Doogy	flipouk: I just opened the app manager, and I wants me to update maemo 5 version 3.2010.02-8.002	20:06
Wild_Doogy	(I cant actualy do that update till I get a SIM card)	20:06
Arif	aw	20:07
ShadowJK	their existence seems to have come as a surprise to some developers even	20:07
ShadowJK	you can't update without simcard? really?	20:07
flipouk	Wild_Doogy: thanks.	20:07
Arif	Nokia should be more open in what they throw at us	20:07
Arif	:d	20:07
Wild_Doogy	yeah, it needs to use the computer, and the windows software gicks out	20:07
flipouk	Arif: the update is reported as being 'minor', no new functionnality	20:08
Arif	I mean the regional differences	20:08
ShadowJK	Wild_Doogy, do you have ioquake installed?	20:08
Wild_Doogy	no actualy	20:08
shinkamui	I struggled with the update	20:08
Wild_Doogy	I should	20:08
shinkamui	finally got it by killing ovi maps	20:08
Wild_Doogy	:-D	20:08
shinkamui	and then apt-get dist-upgrading	20:08
shinkamui	seriously it needs like 50 megs free on root	20:09
Wild_Doogy	ouch	20:09
flipouk	I am forcing a manual check for update, just in case ...	20:09
Arif	I just pressed the orange bulb on the desktop...	20:09
flipouk	Arif: well I was expecting to get this thing at some point as well... but it has not showed up	20:10
ShadowJK	Apparently you cant do ota upgrade if ioquake is installed	20:10
flipouk	argh 'no updates available'	20:10
Arif	it doesn't add anything itneresting	20:10
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Arif	you're not missing out :P	20:10
flipouk	Arif: I guess it correct bugs though	20:10
Arif	you should go through all the trouble when 1.2 comes out	20:11
Arif	=D	20:11
flipouk	Arif: agreed	20:11
Arif	OR if Sygic finally gets released and you really want it...	20:11
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Arif	but somehow I think that won't happen very soon	20:12
flipouk	Arif: what is Sygic?	20:12
Arif	navigation software	20:12
flipouk	ok thx	20:12
Arif	everyone's complaining the N900 can't say out loud you need to drive into a tree	20:12
Arif	:D	20:12
flipouk	;-)	20:13
ShadowJK	flipouk, it'd be interesting to see the output of: dpkg -l \| grep maemo-fremantle	20:13
Wild_Doogy	I assume that there is an Ubuntu updater for the N900. anyone know where it is to be found?	20:13
acidjazz	where can i read about the latest maemo update	20:13
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javispedro	on this channel's topic.,	20:13
ShadowJK	tablets-dev.nokia.com beware that "updating" with PC actually overwrites	20:13
flipouk	ShadowJK: hang on...	20:13
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acidjazz	god i have like nothing installed "not enough memory to upgrade"	20:14
Arif	my only gripe with the device now is the bug I reported and no built in bluetooth sending :D	20:14
ShadowJK	the reason it says use pc is because something you installed conflicts	20:14
Wild_Doogy	oh?	20:14
* Arif wonders if there's a way to request a feature in petrovich...		20:15
acidjazz	javispedro: which part of hte topic theres 80 urls	20:15
Wild_Doogy	so the computer will then force the update, killing whatever is in the way	20:15
flipouk	ShadowJK: dpkg -l \| grep maemo-fremantle doesn't return anything on my N900 ...	20:15
javispedro	acidjazz: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1	20:15
acidjazz	graci	20:16
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ShadowJK	flipouk: so somehow you've ended up removing it I think...	20:16
acidjazz	ive freed up like 200mb still nto enough room	20:17
flipouk	Don't tell me you need Windows to do a firmware upgrade!!!! :-(	20:17
ShadowJK	what happens if you try apt-get install maemo-fremantle-generic-pr	20:17
ShadowJK	acidjazz: space on /: df -h /	20:17
flipouk	ShadowJK: hang on I try...	20:17
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javispedro	wow, there have been like a shitload of "open device" announcements	20:18
javispedro	now this http://www.openpeak.com/OpenTablet7.php	20:19
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javispedro	toshiba also is shipping some kind of 7-8''ish tablet, I found it at a shop yesterday!	20:19
ShadowJK	acidjazz, disable extras-testing and extras-devel. just having them enabled consumes lots of space	20:19
Wild_Doogy	looks like Apple and thier "this software is closed, and sucks to be you" might be on a decline	20:19
acidjazz	ShadowJK: ugh 33.6mb	20:19
flipouk	ShadowJK: it can't find the package	20:19
acidjazz	ShadowJK: ok	20:20
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flipouk	ShadowJK: I attempt a apt-get update	20:20
ShadowJK	oops	20:21
acidjazz	the phones has f'ing 32gb's when is it going to fix this	20:21
ShadowJK	I was wrong, it's mp-fremantle-genric-pr	20:21
ShadowJK	not maemo-...	20:21
flipouk	ShadowJK: ok	20:21
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Wild_Doogy	looks like battery-eye may have made it out of extras-devel	20:22
Wild_Doogy	its called battery graph	20:22
flipouk	apt-cache search mp-fremantle-generic-pr doesn't return anything	20:22
flipouk	even after apt-get update	20:22
flipouk	apt-cache search mp-fremantle returns:	20:23
flipouk	mp-fremantle-203-pr	20:23
flipouk	ShadowJK: do you reckon I shall install mp-fremantle-203-pr?	20:23
ShadowJK	is it installed?	20:24
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flipouk	ShadowJK: yes	20:24
flipouk	dpkg -l \| grep mp-freman	20:24
flipouk	ii mp-fremantle-203-pr 2.2009.51-1.203.2	20:24
ShadowJK	ah ok	20:24
* ShadowJK wonders what 203 is		20:25
* ShadowJK pings timeless_mbp		20:25
timeless_mbp	pong	20:25
timeless_mbp	england iirc	20:25
mtnbkr	ShadowJK: I am in the same boat as acidjazz... I have about 37MB free on / and have disabled just about all the catalogs in the app manager... is there a (simple) way to see what apps are installed that are not "optified"	20:25
mtnbkr	or are taking up space on /	20:25
timeless_mbp	if it isn't England, it might be a vendor in England	20:26
flipouk	ShadowJK: '203' stands for England?	20:26
flipouk	timeless_mbp: ok	20:26
nidO	203 is the uk unbranded version	20:26
timeless_mbp	why ask me? :)	20:26
nidO	205 is uk vodafone network	20:26
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timeless_mbp	btw people should replace their 20x with a normal non England version	20:27
timeless_mbp	they'll get faster updates	20:27
timeless_mbp	and less poorly tested variant crud	20:27
nidO	or nokia could just release them with the rest of the world	20:27
nidO	or at least explain why they feel the need to delay it	20:27
flipouk	nidO: ok this makes sense, I bought my N900 directly from Nokia UK, in Regent Street, London	20:27
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ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, I pinged you because I had a memory of you trying to figure out thee story behind the regional variants	20:28
timeless_mbp	nidO: the reason is that the variants are created by a group of people who barely exist	20:28
nidO	so why does nokia create them in the first place?	20:28
timeless_mbp	and are terrible at communicating which version they want to publish	20:28
timeless_mbp	nidO: well	20:28
timeless_mbp	first you create the baseline	20:28
nidO	203 is the UNBRANDED uk version, sold by nokia themselves	20:28
timeless_mbp	then you create the basic england variant	20:28
timeless_mbp	then you work with the operator to derive a variant from your england baseline	20:28
nidO	no.	20:29
nidO	read.	20:29
Arif	why do the Brits need their own version :P	20:29
nidO	203 isnt an operater variant	20:29
timeless_mbp	the england variant enables the variants team to test variants	20:29
timeless_mbp	nidO: it's still a variant	20:29
nidO	its totally unbranded, unrelated to operators	20:29
timeless_mbp	in that there's a "variants team"	20:29
nidO	but its only a variant because nokia choose to make it one.	20:29
X-Fade	Arif: Other regulations for instance.	20:29
timeless_mbp	which is responsible for producing both it and the normal operator variants	20:29
nidO	they made it a variant for no good reason, and no arent updating it.	20:29
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timeless_mbp	nidO: oh, it's useful	20:29
Arif	can't you just put those settings in the selected region?	20:30
nidO	if they make the variant and apply it on english phones they sell, it's their responsibility to keep it up to date with the rest of the world as well	20:30
timeless_mbp	how else would we know that we can or can't make a variant for an operator? :)	20:30
X-Fade	nidO: UK has other rules for FM transmitter iirc. Things like that differ.	20:30
timeless_mbp	you have to test this stuff somehow	20:30
timeless_mbp	nidO: so complain to nokia care	20:30
nidO	potential differences between the uk and global firmware have been investigated to death by uk users	20:30
nidO	and there's no discernable difference	20:30
timeless_mbp	and get your british friends to complain too	20:30
nidO	been there, done that	20:31
X-Fade	nidO: Then just install generic?	20:31
timeless_mbp	nidO: i certainly don't know of any useful difference	20:31
timeless_mbp	but you really should just install generic	20:31
Trizt	damn upgrade broke my volume button, it works just for a while after reboot	20:31
timeless_mbp	i've said that repeatedly	20:31
nidO	I have, but the fact remains that there's no logic in nokia selling nokia phones with a variant firmware that's only used for phones sold by nokia in one country, and nokia then doesnt update it, virtually forcing users to have to potentially void their phone's warranty by flashing to a different firmware.	20:32
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timeless_mbp	i'm pretty certain flashing firmware doesn't void the warranty	20:32
X-Fade	nidO: It does get updated, it is just a different team. Working a bit slower ;)	20:32
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timeless_mbp	but i won't argue that it isn't stupid	20:32
nidO	you'd think it wouldnt	20:32
nidO	nokia care thinks it does	20:32
timeless_mbp	so complain to ari	20:33
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timeless_mbp	he has a public blog	20:33
nidO	despite it being a nokia firmware flashed using a nokia tool to a nokia device	20:33
timeless_mbp	flame him	20:33
* Trizt had to flash his girlfriends phone as the one sold in sweden didn't support traditional Chinese		20:33
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ensi	hello, anyone know how to categorize a project in "trove software mape". the email says to go to "project page and select 'Project Admin'" which doesn't exist	20:33
timeless_mbp	it's worth noting that nokia care is not perfect	20:33
timeless_mbp	i've caught them screwing up	20:33
nidO	I noticed.	20:33
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timeless_mbp	when they mess up:	20:34
timeless_mbp	1. document it	20:34
timeless_mbp	2. demand to speak to a manager	20:34
timeless_mbp	3. document it	20:34
javispedro	timeless: oh, that will get handy for me soon, when I get my n900 back.	20:34
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flipouk	ok so it is just a matter of waiting a little bit. no big deal. thanks guys	20:37
timeless_mbp	flipouk: please do complain to nokia care	20:37
timeless_mbp	you need X people to fill a bucket	20:37
timeless_mbp	if you fill the bucket (best to overflow), it will get raised faster	20:38
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timeless_mbp	and people will try to force things to happen faster	20:38
flipouk	timeless_mbp: well to be honest I don't a good reason to complain so far...	20:39
timeless_mbp	flipouk: you spent 20mins of our time	20:39
timeless_mbp	do us a favor and spend 10mins of nokia care's time	20:39
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nidO	flipouk it's also worth noting that this delayed update is minor and doesnt really bring much - when the 1.2 update gets delayed by 1/2/3/4 days/weeks/months for your firmware it's going to hurt more	20:40
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timeless_mbp	9yeah	20:41
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timeless_mbp	you really should take this as an opportunity to try to grease the wheels for the next one	20:41
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flipouk	timeless_mbp: do you think that it's a big problem to get an update a littli bit late?	20:41
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timeless_mbp	consider that sometimes it's a security update	20:42
timeless_mbp	because e.g. your web browser is exploitable	20:42
timeless_mbp	if you don't care about the data on your device, then that's fine	20:42
flipouk	timeless_mbp: you have a point...	20:42
timeless_mbp	:)	20:43
nidO	from a joe home user standpoint as well though flipouk, the 1.2 update will also bring qt4.6 which will ultimately = significant functionality improvements in the form of tons more extra software	20:43
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nidO	none of which will be usable without the update	20:43
timeless_mbp	that won't install on pre 1.2 :)	20:43
* Arkenoi wonders if DataViz is going to release a full editor version of DtG		20:43
flipouk	ok. let's find out how to contact nokia care then...	20:44
ruskie	cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02cache	20:44
ruskie	Dir::Cache::archives "/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/";	20:44
ruskie	adding that helps with apt-get still having room on /	20:44
ruskie	:)	20:44
ruskie	I do wonder why nokia doesn't do that by default	20:44
mtnbkr	ok, I am confused. /opt is not mounted separately. df -h shows / has 39.5M free. du -h /opt/rovio shows 18.5M - remove angry birds via app mgr and /opt/rovio is now gone, but now df -h shows 39.0M free makes no sense any ideas?	20:45
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ruskie	mtnbkr, /opt is a symlink to /home/opt	20:45
timeless_mbp	ruskie: i think we will for .next	20:45
timeless_mbp	not certain, ask konttori tomorrow	20:45
ruskie	so unless /home is mounted everything will get put on /	20:46
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mtnbkr	ruskie: Jesus Christ, I am retarded. I forgot to look for that,... sigh... thanks <facepalms>	20:46
mtnbkr	was working quickyl from slide out k/b before sshing in... much better now. but I am still unable to get ~50M free on / for update	20:47
ruskie	mtnbkr, first do: apt-get clean	20:48
ruskie	then edit: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02cache	20:48
ruskie	and put in: Dir::Cache::archives "/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/";	20:48
ruskie	that will certainly help with apt :)	20:48
simoneb_	mtnbkr: i found a script on the forums to check which packages take the most of rootfs. i've found out that the bigger for me were angry birds, aisleriot and wikihow. you could give it a try	20:48
mtnbkr	ruskie: does that help the app manager (which I believe to be using apt in the bavckground)	20:48
ruskie	ham actually already puts things into: /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/	20:49
ruskie	still apt-get clean might help you out a bit	20:49
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mtnbkr	simoneb_: heh I just deleted angry birds and then more space was used on / very strange. apt-get clean got my up to 40.2M though	20:49
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simoneb_	mtnbkr: removed every repo except the first 3?	20:50
simoneb_	mtnbkr: cleared .debs in dpkg's cache?	20:50
ruskie	you only really need: ssu/apps and ssu/mr0	20:50
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X-Fade	mtnbkr: And reboot your device, can help too.	20:50
acidjazz	lol what are these frenzy games	20:50
acidjazz	are they wack	20:50
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mtnbkr	simoneb_: yep... only 1st two repos enabled right now	20:51
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mtnbkr	simoneb_: being a gentoo user, debian's apt and dpkg stuff is a little new to me... how, where are these .debs	20:52
ruskie	apt-get clean should have cleaned those out	20:52
simoneb_	mtnbkr: uhm... should be /var/cache/apt iirc	20:52
greenfly	/var/cache/apt/archives/	20:52
mtnbkr	lol just removed the "maemo tools" catalog and am back down to 39.9M heh	20:53
mtnbkr	simoneb_ greenfly thanks... will check there too	20:53
ruskie	mtnbkr, do you have /home mounted?	20:53
greenfly	but that will only come into play if you had fun with apt-get on the command line	20:53
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mtnbkr	greenfly: I think I only apt-got one or maybe two packages so far.	20:54
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mtnbkr	nothing in /var/cache/apt/archives/ except lock file and empty "partial" dir	20:54
greenfly	then don't worry about it	20:54
ruskie	apt-get clean cleaned that out for you :)	20:54
greenfly	other culprits: unused themes in /usr/share/themes/	20:55
mtnbkr	yep	20:55
greenfly	abiword	20:55
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Arif	bah	20:55
greenfly	other -devel packages	20:55
Arif	kmplayer really sucks	20:55
mtnbkr	ahh I bet themes is the one... I have a couple installed I think	20:55
simoneb_	mtnbkr: i used those scripts to check for non-optified packages http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=500101&postcount=7	20:55
* cehteh still figuring out how to solve lvl15 in angry birds with more than 60k points ...		20:55
ruskie	Arif, better then sib	20:55
Arif	I'm trying that one now	20:55
Arif	KMPlayer likes to just stop playing media if you go do something else :P	20:56
ruskie	hmm used to keep playing for me	20:56
* X-Fade saw a TV ad for the N900 on one of our major channels.		20:56
andre__	uh?	20:57
ruskie	?	20:57
X-Fade	Yesterday too.	20:57
Arif	where are you?	20:57
X-Fade	NL	20:57
Arif	was it before/after RTL boulevard? :P	20:58
X-Fade	Arif: yes.	20:58
Arif	you should find something better to watch :P	20:58
X-Fade	Arif: Research of course :)	20:59
* Arif doesn't have Dutch channels himself :p		20:59
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Arif	only TMobile web 'n walk tv	20:59
X-Fade	Arif: And how did you know about it then :D	20:59
Arif	someone told me :O	20:59
Arif	"I saw your phone on RTL"	20:59
X-Fade	Sure..	20:59
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Arif	and I read it on tweakers :P	21:00
mtnbkr	cehteh: I wonder if my angry birds scores are gone since I removed AB I see no .angrybirds or .rovio dir in my ~/ nor my ~/MyDocs :(	21:00
X-Fade	mtnbkr: reflash == scores gone.	21:00
satmd	try ~/.config and ~/.local, too	21:02
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mtnbkr	satmd: :( only wormux and some other stuff inthere (and I already removed wormux app) That means I need to replay all my AB levels. :)	21:04
satmd	:)	21:05
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ruskie	mtnbkr, do: apt-get remove wormux-data	21:07
* ruskie hates HAM... can we get a NORMAL apt frontend aready		21:07
arachnist	why a front end?	21:08
arachnist	frontend*	21:08
cehteh	yes, yum for meego :P	21:08
ruskie	arachnist, because there are "normal" people that use it :)	21:08
arachnist	orly? ;)	21:09
ruskie	cehteh, yum or apt-get... doesn't really matter	21:10
ruskie	when it comes to binary they all suck anyway :)	21:10
arachnist	well	21:11
arachnist	at least rpm spec files are not a hell to write	21:11
ruskie	haven't really tried	21:11
arachnist	i've written/modified quite a few	21:11
ruskie	but if it's any better then the hack ad infinitum that are debian packages it's probably easier	21:12
* cehteh notes nixos ...		21:13
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RST38h	Supercover Insurance is alleging that many iPhone owners are deliberately smashing their devices and filing false claims in order to upgrade to the latest model. The gadget insurance company told Sky News Sunday that it saw a 50-percent rise in claims during the month Apple launched the latest version, the iPhone 3GS.'	21:16
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javispedro	and of course the insurance companies are at fault here.	21:17
javispedro	half life on a iphone-like device: 6 months	21:17
javispedro	s/on/of	21:17
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RST38h	javispedro: N900 included?	21:17
javispedro	definitely	21:17
ruskie	lol	21:18
RST38h	javispedro: depressive	21:18
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mtnbkr	simoneb_: BAM ->> perl -I. checkpkgs.pl 6564adobe-flashplayer 6M sheesh	21:19
ruskie	lol	21:20
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mtnbkr	...and I. HATE. FLASH.	21:20
Xisdibik_n900	hater!	21:20
ruskie	rootfs 227.8M 196.6M 27.0M 88% / <-- and I've removed a ton of things	21:20
javispedro	dpkg --purge to the rescue	21:20
ruskie	among them flash, mediaplayer and a ton of others	21:21
ruskie	mtnbkr, btw have any custom boot videos?	21:21
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mtnbkr	I am apt-get removing it... (at least for now)	21:21
mtnbkr	ruskie: nope	21:21
javispedro	249.5M 144.2M 105.3M 58% sometimes I think I'm just deadly lucky.	21:21
RST38h	oh really?	21:21
RST38h	all repos disabled, no apps?	21:21
Xisdibik_n900	you are javispedro!	21:21
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ruskie	javispedro, lol... I at a time had 180 free I think :)	21:21
RST38h	or have you moved stuff to the memory card?	21:21
javispedro	no, I'm lying.	21:22
javispedro	this is n810 :(	21:22
javispedro	the dangers of ssh.	21:22
ruskie	but since n900 requires stuff from /usr I can't do that anymore	21:22
Wild_Doogy	apt-get --purge removed all installed programs?	21:22
Wild_Doogy	:-D	21:22
Wild_Doogy	*removes	21:23
ruskie	nope	21:23
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ruskie	just removes any cruft left behind	21:23
zash	config files and such	21:23
adeus	that does nothing	21:23
adeus	without a package	21:23
Wild_Doogy	does the n810 have a larger rootfs?	21:24
ruskie	iirc it has SD cards only	21:25
ruskie	or does it?	21:25
mtnbkr	lol http://pastebin.ca/1800390 I guess it is easier to just temporarily move the libflashplayer.so file to /home/user, update then move it back.. hah	21:25
javispedro	ruskie: see my df -h line, it seems to have a slightly larger rootfs (probably due to less jffs2 overhead)	21:25
ShadowJK	N810 has same root size as N900. N810 however has no /opt	21:26
ruskie	well n900 uses ubifs	21:26
javispedro	yeah, that's what I mean. less jffs2 overhead when compared to ubifs	21:27
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simoneb_	i've noticed that the n900 uses a 64kb block size or it's me?	21:27
* mtnbkr wonders why storage space is always so limited on devices... isn;t flash mem cheap yet.		21:28
javispedro	raw nand isn't cheap seems.	21:28
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simoneb_	in italy, we'll soon have a tax for that.	21:31
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simoneb_	was around 0.80€ per GB or so. it doesn't apply to mobile phones and mp3 players (for now)	21:32
ruskie	simoneb_, you mean "pirate" tax	21:32
ruskie	we've had that for a while	21:32
ruskie	and a few others as well	21:32
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simoneb_	ruskie: really? where?	21:32
ruskie	right side of italy :)	21:33
ruskie	small little country :)	21:33
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simoneb_	like in croatia... or like in predappio?	21:34
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ruskie	croatia is small ???	21:34
RST38h	depends on what you compare it with	21:34
ruskie	you sure you're looking at the right map ? ;)	21:34
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ruskie	it's stuck between Italy, Austria, Hungary and Croatia	21:35
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simoneb_	slovenia?	21:35
ruskie	bingo	21:35
ruskie	I did say small :)	21:36
simoneb_	not that croatia is that bigger :P	21:36
* simoneb_ dinner		21:36
ruskie	20000 km^2 vs 56000 km^2	21:37
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Proteous	wifi bug seemes to be fixed for me	21:37
Proteous	woot, no more rebboting after using wifi	21:37
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mtnbkr	sweet! update went fine, re-installed Angry birds and my scores are all there. :)	21:46
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slonopotamus	so.	21:57
luke-jr	so no u	21:57
slonopotamus	how i do that your 'optification'?	21:57
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wazd	"you have been unsubscribed from the Meego-Dev mailing list"	21:58
wazd	thank god :)	21:58
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* RST38h moos at wazd for not unchecking that box in his meego profile to begin with		21:59
RST38h	wazd: how is iTheme? =)	21:59
inz	wazd, the list should be renamed to rpm-vs-deb	21:59
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wazd	RST38h: well, currently I have to do something for money quickly :D	22:01
ToiletOil	wth. I edited the files in /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/html/, but the edits persist even after I've restored them to the originals	22:01
wazd	RST38h: cause I really want to eat :)	22:01
RST38h	wazd: figured things out with Roman?	22:01
wazd	RST38h: nope	22:02
wazd	RST38h: whatever	22:02
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RST38h	wazd: I am not getting why it shouldbe so difficult :)	22:02
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wazd	RST38h: me too actually :)	22:03
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RST38h	wazd: Will go to US on march 4th and ask =)	22:04
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javispedro	even if you choose "digest" at the subscription form, I'm getting 20 or 30 digests _per day_	22:05
javispedro	I wonder if it said "hourly digest" somewhere.	22:05
wazd	RST38h: but anyway, all that delays blew up my budget a bit :)	22:05
RST38h	javispedro: did I tell you how I hate mailing lists? :)	22:05
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RST38h	wazd: I think we have to organize it differently	22:05
javispedro	RST38h: I'm just waiting for gmane to subscribe to it (sent email already)	22:05
wazd	javispedro: seriously, MeeGo-Dev is currently a spam generator :)	22:06
Arkenoi	Is there a way to switch keyboard layouts in easydebian applications?	22:06
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javispedro	yes, I'm worried that gmane staff may deduce it's a spam list >:)	22:06
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RST38h	javispedro: I would unsubscribe and wait for archives to become available on the web	22:07
SWFu64	Anyone have their update yet in the UK?	22:07
SWFu64	Still nothing here	22:07
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SpeedEvil	SWFu64: nothing here too. (uk)	22:08
SpeedEvil	(though I last tried a couple of hours ago)	22:08
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SWFu64	Nothing as of about 30 seconds either	22:09
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ShadowJK	SpeedEvil: you still have the uk firmware?	22:14
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wazd	wow	22:15
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wazd	now that's cool	22:15
wazd	Windows 7 uses taskbar glow according to the icon color	22:15
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: ?	22:16
javispedro	"MeeGo-dev Digest, Vol 1, Issue 36". sigh.	22:16
javispedro	36 times today.	22:16
wazd	seriously, wow!	22:16
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javispedro	wazd: yes, but they had to fix the "autodetection" for some of the builtin apps =)	22:16
El_Angelo	wazd: wtf do we care about win7?	22:16
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil: apparently the unknown people who do the castration, erm, variants havent done anything yet	22:16
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wazd	El_Angelo: I don't know why you care :)	22:17
dassu	Does n900 automatically save location information to the pictures?	22:18
wazd	javispedro: seriously, that doesn't look like microsoft at all. Such a subliminal move	22:18
javispedro	wazd: I remember they advertised that well on the first w7 days	22:18
SpeedEvil	dassu: if you ask it to	22:18
wazd	javispedro: oh :)	22:18
javispedro	wazd: it all looks very appleish to me	22:18
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javispedro	wazd: in fact I kept seeing the first os x dock with their uniform color per each dock item	22:19
javispedro	(those were not "autodetected" but hardcodec iirc)	22:19
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wazd	javispedro: pidgin has purple glow! wow! :D	22:20
javispedro	hehe	22:21
javispedro	they had to hardcode the wmp color.	22:21
javispedro	or the cpanel one, I don't remember.	22:21
dassu	SpeedEvil: what is the default value?	22:21
SpeedEvil	dassu: I don't remember.	22:21
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Pgrodt	can anyone help me get locate (or slocate or mlocate) installed? it complains about busybox's findutils package.	22:24
dassu	SpeedEvil: But "exiv2 pr" should show the values if it was there ? In other words: The geodata is saved in the exif ?	22:25
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SpeedEvil	dassu: if it's there at all	22:26
dassu	cool :)	22:26
dassu	Well, I ended up doing exiv2 rm just in case	22:26
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SpeedEvil	http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4259431966/meta/	22:27
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slonopotamus	where i find docs on optification?	22:29
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t-tan	Pgrodt: if you're talking about my findutils-gnu package, I'm about to upload a new version	22:29
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hrw	morning	22:30
Pgrodt	t-tan: i briefly saw the existence of it, but didnt try installing it, since i wasnt sure if it was what i needed.	22:31
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t-tan	Pgrodt: the locate package of it is completely untested and probably not good for battery life when updatedb runs	22:32
simoneb_	slonopotamus: what kind of docs?	22:33
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slonopotamus	simoneb_, on its usage	22:35
slonopotamus	...	22:35
slonopotamus	tex-common cannot poostinst in sb.	22:35
slonopotamus	have workaround?	22:35
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simoneb_	slonopotamus: i think there is no "usage" for optification. optification means that most/all of a package should stand in /opt, so, as a developer you should take care to place every file in /opt, and use references to there in your code	22:36
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lcuk	slonopotamus, gitorious maemo-optify has a writeup	22:37
slonopotamus	simoneb_, there's maemo-optify package that somehow hellps with this	22:37
slonopotamus	lcuk, k	22:37
Pgrodt	t-tan: presuming its just done through cron, i just intended to remove the job and call updatedb manually as needed.	22:38
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Jef91	So, I am trying to install the latest maemo update	22:48
Jef91	and it keeps telling me there is not enough space in my target location	22:48
Jef91	my rootfs has more space open than the update requires	22:48
woglinde	re	22:49
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Arnoldthebat	jef, remove extras development etc	22:49
Arnoldthebat	to free up rootfs	22:49
Jef91	My root fs has 30megs open	22:49
Jef91	the update is 16 megs	22:49
Jef91	how many does it need?...	22:49
nidO	needs 43	22:49
woglinde	apt-get purge mught help	22:49
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Arnoldthebat	dont work like that	22:49
woglinde	jef packaged	22:49
Jef91	ahh gay	22:50
valdyn	Jef91: its 16 + unpacked packages, not just 16	22:50
Arnoldthebat	40 plus needed	22:50
woglinde	unpacked it will be more	22:50
Jef91	Fucking Nokia	22:50
_andy	anyone had luck resizing the root partition with parted?	22:50
Arnoldthebat	niiice	22:50
RST38h	in what position?	22:50
RST38h	andy: Sorry, but why would you resize root partition?	22:50
woglinde	_andy why?	22:50
RST38h	You cannot make it much bigger and it makes no sense to make it even smaller	22:50
woglinde	optif is running quiet well	22:50
_andy	woglinde: so that they didn't have to micromanage drive space on it in order to install a nokia update :P	22:50
Jef91	RST38h because it is retarded being only 256 egs?	22:50
nidO	got a better solution?	22:51
woglinde	jef91 which is enough for most stuff	22:51
RST38h	Jef: No, I asked in what position you were fucking Nokia	22:51
_andy	symlinking to a seperate device is messy..	22:51
Pgrodt	its retarded....but fast! ;)	22:51
valdyn	_andy: symlinks are messy? how?	22:51
valdyn	_andy: would bind mounts make you happy?	22:51
hrw	Preparing to replace mp-fremantle-generic-pr 2.2009.51-1.hrw0 (using .../mp-fremantle-generic-pr_3.2010.02-8.hrw1_all.deb) ...	22:51
hrw	so users of my modest build are able to upgrade to pr1.1.1	22:52
_andy	valdyn: no.. i suppose just when they break it can be confusing.	22:52
ShadowJK	python uses bind mounts ;-)	22:52
RST38h	hrw: that is your own version of metaupdate that includes modest fixes?	22:52
RST38h	oh ok	22:52
ShadowJK	Jef91, disable extras-testing and extras-devel. Having them enabled uses about 20megs.	22:52
woglinde	run apt-get clean	22:53
RST38h	ShadowJK: Actually, the master hint is to remove libqt4	22:53
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ShadowJK	_andy, the device is 256megs big. I believe it's a 256/256 chip, and probably the biggest one available (in volume) at the time N900 was designed?	22:53
RST38h	ShadowJK: And use apt-get to update, as it shows more information about the failure	22:53
GeneralAntilles	So, did anybody poke the new apt sources to figure out what Nokia broke for PR1.1.1?	22:53
ShadowJK	RST38h, that removes maemo-fremantle-pr ?	22:53
RST38h	General: Or, better, use the old apt binary to leech commercial stuff =)	22:54
_andy	ShadowJK. oh.. i se..	22:54
* RST38h hehes		22:54
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, yeah, that was my thought.	22:54
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, watching Nokia try to secure this stuff is pathetic.	22:54
RST38h	ShadowJK: well, looks like maemo-fremantle-pr (new one) has some problems with certain qt4 installations, they have to be manually purged	22:55
ShadowJK	So can't they do per-device authentication with the magic used for the nokia binaries..	22:55
RST38h	General: To think of it, you can probably access stuff with firefox :)	22:55
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, also likely.	22:55
RST38h	General: But yes, they definitely need a guy who understands what he is doing. Whoever is doing systems design for Ovi right now is not up to the task	22:55
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_andy	so is there going to be MeeGo firmware?	22:57
_andy	(not trolling)	22:57
RST38h	no.	22:57
RST38h	(trolling)	22:57
hrw	RST38h: waiting for pr1.2 to provide newer modest packages	22:57
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ShadowJK	_andy, if anything meego makes the N900's future look better than it did before	22:57
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ShadowJK	Officially, meego changes nothing for N900	22:58
RST38h	ironically, yes	22:58
_andy	ShadowJK: i was just wondering if nokia had announced any plans to push it out to the N900 as a firmware update.	22:58
Arkenoi	hmmm	22:58
Arkenoi	i asked some people to test d2g on the iphone	22:59
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ShadowJK	_andy, Nope. They hadn't announced any plans for Maemo 6 on N900 either.	22:59
Arkenoi	seems that they have WAY better implementeation	22:59
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Arkenoi	that sucks!	22:59
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GeneralAntilles	_andy, whether Nokia does it or not is fairly irrelevant.	22:59
GeneralAntilles	_andy, it's going to happen one way or another.	22:59
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* ShadowJK 's battery was 10% higher this evening than "normally", placebo effect of 1.1.1 in action		23:00
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GeneralAntilles	Some power consumption related issues were fixed	23:00
Jef91	is here a way I can check which packages I have are from devel/using root space?	23:00
_andy	can i shield my N900 from gamma ray bursts?	23:01
Jef91	I forget which I took from there...	23:01
hrw	I think that nokia will not add n900 into meego. community may add it and build/maintain kind of meego/n900 HE	23:01
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hrw	this way they do not have to do anything	23:02
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pupnik__	cough ... mer...	23:02
Stskeeps	pupnik__: i'm pretty much telling people to contribute to meego	23:03
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ShadowJK	stskeeps: I was thinking earlier that meego makes Mer obsolete in many ways	23:06
RST38h	Nothing prevents Sts from basing nexrt mer on meego	23:07
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: i don't mind, it's a fullfilment of most hopes we had and goals.	23:07
ShadowJK	yeah	23:07
slonopotamus	err	23:07
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Stskeeps	ShadowJK: it doesn't mean there's no reason to not merge Mer into the project and fight for our ideas and principles, though	23:08
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slonopotamus	anyone else experiences misbehang clock in sb in virtualbox?	23:08
Stskeeps	i mean, our build guy is doing meego OBS stuff :)	23:08
slonopotamus	i just fetched a file in 4658 days.	23:08
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jacekowski	maybe it was out of sync when you started it	23:09
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slonopotamus	no, it happens often	23:09
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asj_	anyeoine using Nokia Messaging on their N900? is mail actaully being sent?	23:09
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ShadowJK	Stskeeps, I obviously didn't mean "obsoletes" in a bad sense :)	23:09
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: i didn't either :)	23:10
slonopotamus	make complains aboout clock scew, some files with modification in future...	23:10
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valdyn	asj_: it works fine for "standard" mail providers like google mail, not for most i guess, not for mine	23:10
pupnik__	how does meego make mer obsolete? more devices?	23:10
asj_	valdyn: not working for google for me or wife	23:11
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valdyn	asj_: youre using the web ui to configure it, right?	23:12
Stskeeps	pupnik__: it would be stupid to continue parralell work where we are essentially doing the same.	23:12
asj_	I haven't used the webui in months	23:12
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pwnguin	Stskeeps: i thought the point was that mer targeted unsupported devices	23:13
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valdyn	asj_: i dont even see a way to set it up on the n900	23:13
asj_	valdyn: add account it asks right there	23:13
Stskeeps	pwnguin: meego will too.	23:13
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valdyn	asj_: thats a nokia messaging account, not your google account	23:13
asj_	valdyn: nokia messaging does google via imap	23:14
valdyn	asj_: it does not send via imap	23:14
valdyn	asj_: which is what we are talking about...	23:14
valdyn	asj_: port 465, enable ssl	23:14
* asj_ face palms		23:14
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Arkenoi	asj: do you have both mfe calendar sync and nm email enabled at the same time for the same account?	23:14
asj_	valdyn: try not to help if you don';t know what you are talking about	23:14
valdyn	asj_: i know very well what im talking about	23:15
asj_	Arkenoi: for different accounts	23:15
asj_	valdyn: you don't know NM	23:15
pupnik__	gut gut	23:15
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Arkenoi	it is strange then	23:15
Arkenoi	i switched mfe from direct google sync to nuevasync and it fixed the problem	23:16
asj_	Arkenoi: yeah it's really annoying since it says "sending" then "sent" but it never really goes out	23:16
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Arkenoi	hmm	23:16
Arkenoi	then it is not that bug i was thinking about	23:16
asj_	Arkenoi: yeah, I was going to do the same, but I think mfe eats more battery life	23:16
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slonopotamus	is it a good idea to put libgnomeiu in extras?	23:17
t-tan	is anybody interested in supporting or contributing to a Debian-MeeGo project (packaging MeeGo components for Debian)?	23:17
asj_	odd when I went to log into NM web UI it said "you have to change your password"	23:17
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manavs	hello	23:19
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* Arif blinks		23:20
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pupnik__	t-tan: what do you mean?	23:22
pupnik__	is the rpm stuff set in stone?	23:22
ponyofdeath	anyone else having issues adding and imaps server to nokia n900?	23:22
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ponyofdeath	i am getting host/port errors but i know for a fact they are working	23:22
t-tan	pupnik__: for the MeeGo distribution, yes, but you could implement the MeeGo environment on other real distros	23:23
slonopotamus	ponyofdeath, works ok for me	23:24
ponyofdeath	slonopotamus: do u have imap over ssl with an self generated cert?	23:24
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slonopotamus	ponyofdeath, yep, exactly	23:25
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slonopotamus	ponyofdeath, modest might require restart between setup and first connect	23:26
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satmd	I wonder if there's g_serial	23:26
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nidO	no problems with ssl imap for me either	23:28
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slonopotamus	ponyofdeath, afaik, gmail uses imaps	23:29
slonopotamus	ponyofdeath, if it didn't work, tons of complaints would emerge	23:29
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slonopotamus	ponyofdeath, didn't you mess ssl/tls?	23:30
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ponyofdeath	slonopotamus: well i even just tried without imaps	23:34
ponyofdeath	slonopotamus: so ur saying might require restart	23:34
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RST38h	hmmm. Esmertec just switched Dalvik to JIT	23:34
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Arkenoi	NM is terrible	23:41
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Vanadis	hai	23:56
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Vanadis	is there any modification for the unlocking-process?	23:57
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Vanadis	currently, when i'm walking with the phone in my bag, it sometimes unlocks	23:57
Vanadis	worst thing which happened, was calling a customer -.-	23:57
woglinde	how should in unlock?	23:58
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Vanadis	maybe with a gesture (not just a straight line) or a pin	23:59
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Ian--	people any ideas why i'm not getting the latest update 1.1.1 ? hasn't it been released worldwide yet?	23:59
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sportplusbr	www.pt-br.justin.tv/sportplusbr [00:00] NBA: DALLAS MAVERICKS X PHOENIX SUNS	23:59
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woglinde	Ian-- wlan or umts?	23:59
Swakins	somebody have used aircrack-ng under maemo5?	23:59
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