IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-02-17

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mashiarano install-kernel in install-arch00:00
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* mashiara has been patching the rules file all evening00:00
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Stskeepsds3: what i do know is that its OBS based. ARM is very included in meego plans.00:00
ds3in otherwords, is Mer going to survive as a viable path for us N800 folks or should we look elsewhere?00:00
Stskeepsds3: i am still providing a path for n8x0.00:01
Stskeepsds3: will give more info as it evolves.00:01
SceltGAN900: ma as mo in monday, e as e in red and mo as mo in morning :-D easier pronouncing instructions?00:01
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ds3Stskeeps: It sounds like if Intel does try to push ARM out, Mer is likely to fork to keep ARM code alive?00:02
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Stskeepsds3: i doubt this will happen.00:02
Stskeepsds3: as in intel doing that.00:03
ds3why would you doubt that?00:03
itdockits agains their best interest to do that00:03
Stskeepsmarketing disaster.00:03
ds3Atom and ARMv7 stuff are vying for the same area00:03
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Stskeepsalso, its a linx foundation projec.t00:03
Stskeepsu00:03
ds3Like the core Linux folks give a hoot about non x8600:03
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vmlemon_Mah-emmo, then?00:04
vmlemon_Or more like Myamoh?00:04
ds3we shall see I guess00:05
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Stskeepsds3: its better to participate and collaborate to prevent shit like that happening. oss allows forks to happen. but, too much ARM in nokia devices.00:05
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Stskeepsds3: and there are more partners and participants joining00:06
ds3the real test would be when they start putting in code... will there be NEON and SSE versions or is it going to be just SSE00:07
ds3talk is nice but action is what is important00:07
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Stskeepsds3: yes, and we'll see00:08
ml-mobilehmm00:08
ml-mobilewhy does it seem that NSU causes most of the update issues?00:09
ds3back to finding a way to acquire a N900 ;)00:09
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Chikuwhen I install frozen bubbles, there is missing package error00:10
* Arif sells ds3 his N900 for €75000:10
Chikuperl-modules missing00:11
Lumpio-1) go to shop 2) hand over money 3) receive N90000:11
Arifshhh00:11
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GeneralAntillesds3, I don't see Nokia letting Intel push ARM out.00:13
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greenflyyeah if they pushed ARM out they'd be out on a limb00:14
GeneralAntillesEven if x86 starts to become viable in the highest-end phones that still leaves a large segment uncovered for a long time yet.00:14
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JaffaGah, I want to poke my eyes out.00:14
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Arifwhy?00:15
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jacekowskiGeneralAntilles: i think that intel would make arm compatible something00:15
Arifand do you need any help? :o00:15
ds3GA: why not? Intel wants to sell atoms, Nokia is a potential user of Atoms... Atoms have less royalities so it can be cheaper....00:15
GeneralAntillesjacekowski, I'd love to see Intel back in the ARM picture.00:15
jacekowskithere isn't much royalities on ARM00:16
vmlemon_Isn't that why they make the XScale line?00:16
GeneralAntillesds3, well, Nokia has a very long relationship with TI00:16
itdockintel sold xscale to marvell00:16
ds3GA: and TI used to make x86's :D00:16
jacekowskiit's only 1% of chip price00:16
GeneralAntillesds3, I don't see them abandoning that for both technical and political reasons.00:16
ds3intel still has parts of the xscale line00:16
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vmlemon_Aah. Looks like Intel still have some vestigial content on their Website. Oh well.00:16
GeneralAntillesds3, but, yeah, I guess we'll see.00:16
GeneralAntillesds3, I'm optimistic though.00:16
jacekowskiand 1.2% on cortex00:17
jacekowskiso it's almost nothing compared to all other costs00:17
GeneralAntillesds3, especially since every statement I've seen around MeeGo from people who have the credentials to make them says that both will be supported.00:17
itdocki don't see why we want a chip that uses 100x more idle power00:17
mashiaragrr! should have read that rules file more clearly...00:17
mashiarano install-modules either00:17
jacekowskiitdock: datasheet00:17
ds3GA: It'd have more weight if that was AFTER the SoC Atom is available00:17
GeneralAntillesds3, true.00:17
jacekowskiitdock: and show me where does it say that it uses 100x more power in idle00:18
ds3jacekowski: 1% on cortex... but how many ARM cores are in say the OMAP?00:18
GeneralAntillesds3, still, it's not even remotely close to the proper power consumption needed to slap it in an N900-sized device yet.00:18
jacekowskids3: 1% of chip price00:18
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GeneralAntillesds3, 1, I believe.00:18
mashiaraso my new modules package did absolutely nothing, flashing kernel requiring said modules and surprise! device won't boot...00:18
GeneralAntillesds3, OMAP3, anyway.00:18
jacekowskids3: and 1.2% for cortex based chips00:18
GeneralAntillesds3, I think OMAP2 had an ARM11 and an ARM7.00:18
ds3GA: the OMAP3 has multiple ARM cores... not all of which is exposed00:18
GeneralAntillesds3, DSP is a TI core, PowerVR is ImagTech00:19
jacekowskids3: it's 1.2% of chip price00:19
GeneralAntillesds3, the image processing stuff is TI, too, I believe.00:19
ShadowJKmanufacturers in general use tiny arm cores here and there for housekeeping tasks00:19
* Arif blinks00:19
jacekowskiand n900 is cortex00:19
ds3GA: there is at least an ARM9 buried in there00:19
Arifwhat?00:19
Arif:D00:19
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jacekowskiread what does it say on back of it when you open it00:20
jacekowskiARM Cortex-A8 | 32GB00:20
jacekowskiARM Cortex-A8 | 32GB                  Designed in Finland00:20
lardman|homeds3: you sure, sounds like OMAP2 to me00:21
ds3lardman|home: IIRC, it came from a TI guy00:21
jacekowskiit's TI00:21
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ds3the other cores are not exposed00:21
jacekowskithere is a lot of TI stuff in this phone00:21
SystemParadoxwhat the: "memory is read only until fixed. Try fixing it with a PC using the USB cable" - HUH?00:21
lardman|homewhat does the arm7 core do?00:22
GeneralAntilleslardman|home, ARM7 on OMAP2 was the IVA.00:22
ds3trying to find references to it00:22
lardman|homethe IVA in the OMAP2 was iirc an ARM7 or 900:22
jacekowskiIVA?00:22
lardman|homeImaging Video Acceleration unit00:22
lardman|homecoprocessor/etc00:22
ShadowJKSystemParadox, connect to PC, run scandisk if you use windows, fsck if you use *nix..00:23
SystemParadoxon which partition?00:23
GeneralAntillesw00t, you're bringing down the whole tone of the Community Working Group page. :P00:24
jacekowskiSystemParadox: notworking one00:24
JaffaArif: Belatedly - tmo.00:24
jacekowskinot working*00:24
ShadowJKthere'll only be one presented, or two if you have a microsd card00:24
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ArifJaffa, having a good time reading? :P00:24
CutMeOwnThroatis there a way to check what consumes power on a N810? The battery essentially went empty within 5 hours of mostly being idle - GPS, Network, and probably Bluetooth all off, top shows activities in the 4% range for the most active maemo-launcher process... What should I look for?00:24
lardman|homeJaffa: have you considered pinned shortcuts at the top of Catorise?00:24
lardman|homee.g. Phone, Media player, or whatever else a user might want00:25
GeneralAntillespinned where?00:25
marmoutepinned short cuts at the top of Catorise ?00:25
lardman|homei.e. on the top line00:25
lardman|homenot in the menu00:25
GeneralAntillesErm?00:25
GeneralAntillesi.e., at the top of the category view?00:26
lardman|homeso you don't have to dig down into Media or Comms, you just click the shortcut to said apps straight away00:26
lardman|homeyeah00:26
* Arif just uses the 4 desktops to sort the apps/games however he wants00:26
lardman|homeI'd prefer to have info on my desktops, though I do keep a Phone shortcut there00:26
GeneralAntilleslardman|home, then I have to scroll to get to all the categories00:26
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lardman|homehmm00:27
Shapeshifterso, after the upgrade to 1.1.1 it seems like my desktop is completely unresponsive from time to time, I think mainly whem somethings going on in the status area. anyone else noticing this?00:27
lardman|homeyes00:27
ds3can the N900 export the 3G network using an AdHoc WiFi connection?00:27
TomaszDGeneralAntilles, there is space for two icons, I'd love to have "Phone" and "Conversations" jammed in there00:27
ds3(I'm expecting it to do NAT)00:27
mashiarads3: there are two threads about this on talk00:28
jacekowskids3: probably yes00:28
ShapeshifterI tap on stuff and nothing happens and then after a minute or so all of a sudden all the stuff opens up00:28
jacekowskiif it can support ad-hoc then i would say yes00:28
lardman|homeTomaszD: for me there's only space for one, and as the number of categories increases (perhaps) we'll need to scroll anyway00:28
ds3is the search working on talk today?00:28
mashiarasd3: First JoikuSpot http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=526265#post52626500:28
GeneralAntillesTomaszD, depends on which stuff you have installed.00:28
pupnikShapeshifter: ssh-in to the tablet and run 'top' to see what is taking up cpu00:28
GeneralAntillesTomaszD, if you've got something from every single category then it's filled.00:28
mashiarads3: second MobileHotspot http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=530664#post53066400:28
mashiarads3: the stock kernel does not have NAT00:28
GeneralAntilleslardman|home, ideally the number of categories wont be changing.00:29
mashiarads3: Joiku people work around this in "interesting" way00:29
TomaszDGeneralAntilles, ah, didn't know00:29
jacekowskiyou can simulate NAT in userland00:29
Lumpio-...exactly00:29
jacekowskiif you really want to00:29
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mashiarads3: "we" aka the MobileHotspot thread people are building custom kernel00:29
Lumpio-I looked at their GPL source code00:29
Lumpio-It was like three pages00:29
lardman|homeGeneralAntilles: still, having some direct access icons and being able to change the order of the others would suit me00:29
Lumpio-All it does is hook into netfilter or whatever and then they do everything in userspace00:29
TomaszDanyone knows the point of Physio Rep Counter? Why do I have to push the start button every rep...00:29
mashiarajcekowski: yes but I'm not a networking programmer00:29
Lumpio-If I read it correctly00:29
mashiaraor C programmer even00:29
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GeneralAntilleslardman|home, function of having sortable menus, I guess.00:29
mashiaraLumpio: It's because all the real work is done in some userland blob which talks to the kernel via the trivial module they have00:30
mashiarawhich of course must be GPL since it's a kernel module00:30
Lumpio-Didn't I just say that00:31
ds3mashiara: Nice00:31
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jacekowskimashiara: it doesn't have to be GPL00:31
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jacekowskimashiara: you can link non-gpl modules to kernel00:31
ds3mashiara: I assume you guys have discounted setting up the N900 as a PAN server?00:31
jacekowskimashiara: it will taint it but licensewise it's ok00:31
Shapeshifterpupnik: Im not sure its a cpu related problem as really only the desktop freezes. task manager or e.g. launching a term with ctrl shift x still works fast and nicely00:31
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jacekowskimashiara: and kernel developers don't accept oops/panics from people running tainted kernels00:32
Shapeshifterjust the desktop widgets and buttons freeze for a minute00:32
mashiarajacekowski: true though and I was just coming to that oops part...00:32
ds3what's the oops?00:32
jacekowskiit's almost like a panic00:32
jacekowskibut not so bad00:32
ds3I know what an "oops" is00:32
jacekowskiit's recoverable error in kernel00:32
ds3I am asking what is the text of it...i.e I am offering to do a quick analysis00:33
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jacekowskiso something went wrong, system might be unstable00:33
pupnikthe worst part about the N900 isn't anything related to the N900 - it's these godawful website designs00:33
jacekowskibut it wasn't bad enough for kernel panic00:33
mashiarawe were talking about the module license tainting kernel00:33
mashiaraand kernels devs not accepting oopses or panics if kernel is tainted00:33
lardman|homewell I think the email client is pretty rubbish myself00:33
lardman|homeare there any faster alternatives?00:33
mashiarano specific oops to debug now00:33
jacekowskino00:34
ds3ah00:34
jacekowskii can debug my own oopses myself00:34
ds3if you have a  specific opps, we can look at it and deduce stuff. tainting does make it harder but...00:34
woglindejo whats up00:34
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jacekowskii still have madwifi drivers causing panics00:35
mashiarads3: as for PAN haven't looked at it much (in fact I don't really know the details of PAN either)00:35
jacekowskibut i never had time to fix it00:35
mashiarads3: but doesn't routing the PAN stuff still require some sort of NAT ?00:35
ds3mashiara: okay... guess I shouldn't even ask about DUN then :D00:35
Jaffalardman|home: If you edit /opt/catorise/menu you can put "_root" as the category and it'll go at the top-level. No support for multiple locations yet (i.e. "_root,utilities") though00:36
mashiaraDUN works00:36
ds3mashiara: yep... only reason I mentioned PAN is because BT should use less power then AdHoc00:36
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ds3DUN works? nice00:36
mashiarahttp://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles00:37
ds3if the N900 is going to replace the treo, I need someway of using the 3G connection from a laptop00:37
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jacekowskids3: cable + pcsuite00:37
ds3jacekowski: uh.. no.00:37
jacekowskids3: and you can use dialup00:37
jacekowskids3: why?00:37
mashiarathere is some package in maemo extras repo that enables the dun server and probably uses less naive implementation than the example there00:37
ds3I do not want to carry more cables00:37
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mashiaraactually the "pc-suite" USB-mode works dor dialup on linux too00:38
lardman|homeJaffa: ok, will have a look at that, thanks00:38
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wazdseriously, stop considerring "maeblin" as a name on t.m.o. :D00:39
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wazdI'm really tired to laugh :D00:40
woglindewazd *g*00:40
ds3figure since I am asking questions... is there java support? :D00:40
ds3J2SE, that is00:40
Arifew, java00:40
* GeneralAntilles stabs ds3 in the eye.00:40
Arifwhy would anyone want that00:40
Lumpio-ew, java00:40
zChrisSo whats wrong with java?00:41
JaffaRight, mailing lists caught up with; tmo all read and just a couple of wiki.meego.com edits to make00:41
ds3cuz one of the few GPS track viewers out there is written in java00:41
ArifI'd rather have flash 10!00:41
* wazd 's downloading Queen discography in .flac . haba-haba00:41
ds3if there was something else there besides the ever crashing Maemomapper....00:41
* Arif transcodes the flac files to 24kbit mp3s00:41
ds3maemomapper gets rather upset when there are about more then 72 continous hours of tracks :/00:42
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GeneralAntillesds3, there are at least a half-dozen map and GPS-related software packages available.00:42
GeneralAntillesds3, likely one or more can do what you need.00:42
Arifyou could also buy a map00:42
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ds3Arif: I just want to review where I went00:43
ds3i.e. render GPX files locally.. and no, I do not want to render it on googlemaps00:43
ds3MM is a great app but it chokes on large enough datasets00:43
Arifwait for ovi maps to not suck?00:43
ds3it isn't the map that I care about00:44
GeneralAntillesds3, eCoach, Maep or similar may also work.00:44
GeneralAntillesds3, though Maemo Mapper should by happier with more hardware resources to work with.00:44
rom1depds3: j2se is supported through ejre but you're probably thinking about midlets written using the j2me stack...00:44
ds3so try and see :D00:44
ds3rom1dep: no, I am thinking about desktop java apps00:45
rom1depso try ejre...00:45
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ds3<-- trying to justify blowing 2.5x what was spent on the N800 :D00:46
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GeneralAntillesds3, do it.00:46
GeneralAntillesds3, changed my life.00:46
mashiaraargs, now I gotta go to sleep the PR1.1.1 kernel source package is driving me crazt00:46
ds3GA: changed? as in you now live in a cardboard box under a freeway? :D00:47
GeneralAntillesds3, just buy it from somewhere with a good return policy if you're worried.00:47
GeneralAntillesds3, admittedly I'm biased since I got a proto, but still.00:47
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ds3GA: it is the 2.5x... electronics is suppose to get cheaper not blow up by 2.5x00:47
GeneralAntillesIt's the best damn mobile device I've ever used.00:47
GeneralAntillesds3, N800 was 1+ year after release00:48
GeneralAntillesGive it another 8 months and the N900 will be super cheap too.00:48
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ds3there is just a whole list of concerns and quite a few of them are likely to kick in about after 1 year of use :/00:48
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* lardman|home is feeling all C++'d out00:48
rom1depoffscreen apps are probably eye-candy but coded with feets Oo00:48
ds3like lack of viable USB host, lack of full size SD slots, longevitiy of the power connector00:48
* rom1dep is amazed by cpu consumption00:49
ds32.5x would be fine if it is as robust and as useful as the N80000:49
ShadowJKthe connector itself has excellent life expectancy, especially as it will see limited use once it detached from the n900 :D00:49
ds3hahahaha00:50
ds3I was reading about that yesterday00:50
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t-tanmashiara: there is no PR1.1.1 kernel upgrade!?00:51
wazdany Flash gurus in here?00:51
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ds3memory, UI, or raincoat related flash? :D00:52
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wazdAdobe one :)00:52
lardman|homebonus points if you know all 3?00:52
corecoderaincoat?00:52
corecodenot pictures?00:52
lardman|homeflashing00:52
lardman|homeah, another one00:52
corecodeheh00:52
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wazdyeahyeah, camera too00:52
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wazdand superhero00:53
corecodeso what's the community reaction to mEEgO?00:53
wazdcorecode: I'm not seeing any bad in this name00:53
wazdseriously00:53
wazd['migou]-what's wrong with it?00:54
corecodenono, no problem with the name00:54
Sceltnah, pronounced Finnish as maemo.00:54
corecodei'm just wondering, since the technical and social foundation seems to change00:54
Scelt[meeko]00:54
wazdcorecode: community nmostly discuss the name :D00:54
marmoutetibetans name for meego00:55
corecodeah, who cares00:55
marmoutes/meego/big foot/00:55
infobotmarmoute meant: tibetans name for big foot00:55
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corecodewow what a useless bot :)00:55
marmoutelol00:56
wazdso, any Adobe Flash gurus in here? :P00:56
greenflyit does make you curious for how well it escapes regexes though00:56
lardman|homewazd: don't forget the discussion of deb vs rpm ;)00:56
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wazd~burn corecode00:56
* infobot pours gasoline all over corecode, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze00:56
rom1depOo00:56
wazdlardman|home: I thought it was just spam :D00:56
lardman|homewell there is a lot of it!00:57
wazdcorecode: who's useless now? :D00:57
greenflynext thing you know, we'll find out the default meego editor is emacs00:57
lardman|homenah, surely vi vs vim00:57
greenflythen the holy war circle will be complete00:57
acidjazzMY GOD00:57
acidjazzWORLD WILL COLLAPSE00:57
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w00tGeneralAntilles: i aim to please00:58
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ds3ewwwwwwwwwwwwww vim00:58
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:58
ds3;)00:58
t-tanacidjazz: that's scheduled for 201200:58
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rom1dep+ trem00:58
corecodehey, i was serious00:58
greenflymoblin = dogs, maemo = cats, meego = living together00:58
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greenflymass hysteria00:59
ph1lmeego =eating each other :-)00:59
corecodewill there be people re-packaging meego into deb?  will there be people continuing maemo00:59
corecodewtc00:59
corecodeetc*00:59
ds3ipk's!00:59
t-tancorecode: Harmattan will be deb00:59
corecodeas maemo01:00
corecodenot as meego01:00
autoguycorecode: are you typing on your n900 or what? :)01:00
corecodeno, why?01:00
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t-tancorecode: Ubuntu netbook remix is already Moblin as deb01:00
corecodeaha01:01
corecodesee, it gets more confusing01:01
corecodeso what is moblin then?01:01
autoguyJust kidding:   wtc, etc, typical small keyboard typos.01:01
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corecodeor rather, meego01:01
corecodeautoguy: big fingers :)01:02
autoguyAha!01:02
Jaffat-tan: UNR isn't based on Moblin.01:02
corecodemore confusion!01:02
corecode:D01:02
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JaffaThere are Moblin packages for Ubuntu, but it's not UNR01:02
autoguyIsn't Moblin just linux with a GTK/Clutter interface optimized for a small screen?01:03
autoguyThen there's the GENIVI project for in-car infotainment, based on Moblin01:03
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autoguyAnd Meego is targeting automotive too, or so they claim01:03
Jaffaautoguy: Depends if you mean Moblin 1 or Moblin 201:03
rom1depmoblin desktop isn't moblin the project01:03
autoguyIt's all the same stuff, just rebranding ffs01:03
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Jaffaautoguy: Moblin 2 (the current one) has a custom Gtk+ UI01:03
autoguyJaffa: difference?  which one did I mean? :)01:04
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autoguyok.  anyway some components are switched in and out but I can't see a lot of difference...01:05
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autoguyAnd *everyone* is moving to Qt or?01:05
Jaffaautoguy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okfHSyixLy401:05
autoguythanks, watching01:06
Jaffaautoguy: And http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/05/hands-on-intel-brings-rich-ui-to-moblin-linux-platform.ars01:06
autoguyYeah that's the UI I was thinking of01:06
autoguyThe video makes me sea sick01:07
iPeter-Is there some way to add a icon what is a folder to put there icons? Can you cuztoimize your app menu?01:07
iPeter-on nokia N900, maemo01:07
JaffaRight, that's not UNR. Although there is a Ubuntu Moblin Remix ;-)01:07
autoguyof course!01:07
JaffaiPeter-: <plug> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/catorise/ </plug>01:07
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iPeter-Jaffa: Thanks.01:08
Jaffaautoguy: I'm using Ubuntu *Netbook* Remix right now, and it's very shiny - but a lot closer to "normal" GNOME than Moblin01:08
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t-tanJaffa: yes, I mixed it up01:08
autoguyPresenting the Mer Maemo Fedora Linux Mint remix project!  I'll let you know when I'm done.01:08
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autoguyFor toasters.01:09
* rom1dep uses kde4.4 on a netbook and doesn't see a need for a *overkill remix of the summer* ubuntu version...01:09
Jaffaautoguy: But what about if I was a waffle man?01:09
t-tanMaemo  + Moblin: Will it blend?01:09
Jaffaheh01:09
autoguyWell it's all configurable you see01:09
iPeter-Is Firefox better than MicroB, on Nokia N900, maemo 5?01:10
rom1depiPeter-: no01:10
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rom1depthe current firefox is bad compared to MicroB01:11
autoguyAnything is better than MicroB01:11
iPeter-rom1dep: Yeah i tought so.01:11
autoguyPersonally I like Midori but granted haven't tried fennec yet01:11
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iPeter-Is those apps whats on maemo.org/download on repos in App manager01:12
autoguyWhat's "the current firefox" - the fennec that was release some week(s) ago?01:12
rom1depmicroB is the great ff + hildonised + made fingerfriendly... fennec is a 2nd hand firefox lacking of features and not that fun :)01:12
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woglindeautoguy yes01:12
t-tanI wonder how a N900 would blend: http://www.blendtec.com/willitblend/videos.aspx?video=iphone01:13
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pupnikOT:  http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100215.html  Cassini Spacecraft Crosses Saturn's Ring Plane01:13
rom1depautoguy: i guess firefox is the prod name, confusing he..01:13
wiretappedhttp://www.watchitshred.com/ > blendtec01:13
wiretappedhttp://www.ssiworld.com/watch/hard_drives.htm mmmm01:14
ds3I want netfront instead01:14
autoguywoglinde, rom1dep: OK, I guess I have to try it anyway.  What I like about the microB alternative is better font wrapping on a lot of pages.  If you zoom in on microB, you need to scroll left and right a lot of times.01:14
rom1depiPeter-: you might have third party repos to activate01:14
autoguyds3: how is netfront nowadays, is it keeping up with the times?01:14
autoguyds3: from where do you have netfront experience?01:15
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iPeter-rom1dep: Like what repos, give urls + info in query, please (:01:15
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woglindeautoguy they just annouced new release yesterday01:15
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autoguyinteresting01:15
ds3autoguy: it works... it is snappy01:15
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rom1depiPeter-: just go to maemo.org and search for "repository" what I did the 1st day :)01:15
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autoguys/font/text/01:16
autoguybot doesn't search that far back huh? :)01:17
iPeter-rom1dep: Cant find anything ):01:17
rom1depis someone went depth with ejre ? like running swing apps within hildon and overriding the "headless" state01:17
rom1depiPeter-: http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page01:18
CutMeOwnThroatis there a way to check what consumes power on a N810? The battery essentially went empty within 5 hours of mostly being idle - GPS, Network, and probably Bluetooth all off, top shows activities in the 4% range for the most active maemo-launcher process... What should I look for?01:21
rom1depCutMeOwnThroat: top ? powertop ?01:21
ShadowJKpowertop isn't available on N81001:23
CutMeOwnThroatright... just noticed that01:23
CutMeOwnThroatand top doesn't show much.. as I said.. 4% or so on the #1 process01:24
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lardman|homeCutMeOwnThroat: was this pre-update?01:24
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ds3'01:25
CutMeOwnThroatwhat do you mean?01:25
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lardman|homewas that power-drain bug to do with the wifi looking like it was off, but not actually being?01:25
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lardman|homeCutMeOwnThroat: an update was released today01:25
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CutMeOwnThroatoh01:25
lardman|homeoh shit01:25
lardman|homesorry01:25
lardman|homeN81001:25
CutMeOwnThroat:)01:25
lardman|homeignore me01:25
CutMeOwnThroat\\ignore lardman|home01:25
* lardman|home thinks he should just go to bed01:25
CutMeOwnThroatsX\\X//X01:26
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lardman|homeCutMeOwnThroat: did someone write a script/cron job that recorded the top output at intervals?01:26
lardman|homeeven 4% cpu is quite a lot01:26
lardman|homeI know there was one written to track battery percentage01:27
CutMeOwnThroatbut it was maemo-launcher which had the 4%01:27
lardman|homeCutMeOwnThroat: from memory, the browser would kill the battery01:27
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lardman|homeyeah maemo-launcher is a wrapper though I think isn't it?01:28
lardman|homeso which app was it actually?01:28
CutMeOwnThroatI must admit... not sure what its exact function is... the name certainly suggests so01:28
CutMeOwnThroatbut the app would have its own top entry01:28
lardman|homeyeah01:28
CutMeOwnThroatguess I could compile powertop if its really useful01:29
ShadowJKwell if you're looking at top in xterm, that 4% may very well be the x-terminal...01:29
ds3ah HA01:29
ds3I think I can setup DUN w/o NAT and still have it work as if there was NAT01:30
ShadowJKThe kernel does not support powertop anyway01:30
CutMeOwnThroatthis used to happen from time to time, but normally a reboot would fix it (I suspect something like gps was running and only not shown in the displays)01:30
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CutMeOwnThroaton previous occasions at least once I saw the CPU power up (err. "un-throttle") to full power every few seconds... doesn't seem to do this now01:32
CutMeOwnThroatShadowJK, what kernel is needed? The debian package at least doesn't show any dependency on a certain kernel version01:33
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CutMeOwnThroatwhich might be an oversight01:33
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ShadowJKEven if it had been available on the N810 kernel, it's not compiled with it01:34
ShadowJKI think it turned up later anyway01:34
CutMeOwnThroatprobably... diablo is based on etch, iirc01:34
CutMeOwnThroatno iotop either01:35
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iPeter-Fun, i bricked my N900 ):01:36
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matthew-fun, i got bloomberg working buahah01:36
ShadowJKIt's very hard to *brick* it01:36
iPeter-Changed boot video, and now i got only black screen.01:36
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JaffaiPeter-: Unlikely. You probably need to reflash (or enable RD mode, disable the lifeguard reset and SSH in to fix the problem)01:36
lardman|homeShadowJK: cover with Portland cement, leave to dry :)01:36
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CutMeOwnThroatthat should work!01:37
iPeter-Jaffa: Do you have time to help?01:37
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CutMeOwnThroatlardman|home, ... except, possibly, if you're in Cologne ...01:38
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JaffaiPeter-: Going to bed, I'm afraid.01:38
lardman|homeCologne cement?01:38
ShadowJKAnyone looked at the "Nokia audio enhancements" (iirc) section in pa config...01:39
lardman|homeiPeter-: I'm sure if you tell the group someone will suggest something01:39
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iPeter-I did reboot again, it worked.01:39
CutMeOwnThroatsomebody probably stole the cement, so it's mostly covered in sand... ( http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100213-25235.html )01:39
ShadowJKoh eek, I got a bunch of "Operation failed" banners doing upgrade to 1.1.1. 1) What operation failed? 2) Why is it still continuing.. or is it just stuck on the status bar?01:40
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lardman|homethat's the problem with having yearly floods!01:40
ShadowJKD:01:40
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ShadowJKoh the progress bar inched ahead :D01:40
lardman|homeShadowJK: I got that too, no idea why01:40
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iPeter-Something didnt go so well, i changed my boot screen, and 1st boot, i got only black screen. 2nd boot, it laggs like hell.01:42
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lardman|homeanyone tried building an email client using tinymail?01:43
SpeedEviltop01:43
lardman|homehey SpeedEvil01:43
SpeedEvilcheck it's not doing silly shit like trackerd often does.01:43
SpeedEvilyay01:43
SpeedEvilnope.01:43
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* SpeedEvil doesn't really do email.01:43
SpeedEvilat least not on the n90001:43
iPeter-sgx_mirs uses 10% of cpu01:44
lardman|homeoh no, wasn't aimed at you specifically, was just saying hi01:44
SpeedEviliPeter-: was it an image, or a video?01:44
lardman|homeiPeter-: also check thumbnailerd (or whatever it's called)01:44
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SpeedEvilI have vague recollections of malformatted videos that the hardware can't understand doing bad shit.01:45
iPeter-Hmph?01:45
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iPeter-switching it off again, lets look if it helps :I01:45
GeneralAntillesHere's a new way to track Talk:01:45
GeneralAntillesPick your top 10 or 20 favorite users and only see threads they've participated in. :D01:46
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CutMeOwnThroatShadowJK, you're right... powertop's been in debian only from lenny on, all its build-deps can be satisfied with etch-packages, though01:47
iPeter-Well i booted 3rd time, now it seems to work.01:47
iPeter-Odd.01:47
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ShadowJKdebian isn't N810-aware01:47
ShadowJKsure you can build it in scratchbox or even on the device, but it wont do anything useful01:50
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CutMeOwnThroatno... but I thought diabolo package versions should be the same as in etch01:50
LostyJaihey guys01:50
LostyJaican i ask for a HUGE favour01:50
LostyJaiwho here has an n900?01:50
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CutMeOwnThroatyeah, he should send me one, too! :-P01:50
ShadowJKCutMeOwnThroat: they are not01:51
iPeter-LostyJai: What youre asking for?01:51
LostyJaii seemed to have accidently deleted my "/usr/share/themes/alpha" and "/user/share/themes/beta" folders... can someone upload them for me?01:51
LostyJaicurrently my n900 looks like windows 9501:51
cehtehmhm .. anyone tried to get the sdk working on a chroot on the device?01:51
ShadowJKCutMeOwnThroat: in general installing debian packages in Maemo isn't guaranteed to work or do anything sensible..01:52
iPeter-Sounds fun ^^01:52
LostyJai><01:52
LostyJaii need those theme folders back01:52
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LostyJaii can't use my n900!01:52
cehtehtime for reflash? :)01:52
LostyJaican someone just upload them for me =(01:53
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CutMeOwnThroatShadowJK, that's not what I meant... was just doing a rough check if I should expect problems building01:53
iPeter-I bet someone will upload it, i self dont have any place where to upload and i have to go sleep, actually i shoulve been sleeping now 2hours ago.01:53
LostyJai=(01:53
LostyJaialright, nite01:53
LostyJaithanks01:53
iPeter-Sorry, nights.01:53
LostyJaican upload to http://www.4filehosting.com/ or http://www.sendspace.com/01:53
cehtehLostyJai: lemme check .. but i am not really in moof for that01:53
LostyJaiif u don't want to, that's fine01:54
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ShapeshifterSo, I've written somethin in C, gtk and gstreamer and for some reason the gst bit stopped working after the update to 1.1.1 I'm not sure why. I had to update the rom using flasher instead of on-the-fly, and installed most of the stuff I had before through the auto-reinstall-thingy01:54
pupnik"I’ve been working at a small company that was basically doing video codecs for TI. The “DSP core” in that little TI chip can easily decode 1080p, at nowhere near 100% (it can do far more, in fact it can decode h264 and reencode as, say mpeg2 without getting to 100% usage)"01:55
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GeneralAntilles<3 rcadden01:55
GeneralAntillesHe's so awesom.01:55
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.maemo-guru.com/2010/02/with-meego-i-go/01:55
woglindepupnik yeah I loved this comment01:56
Shapeshifterit's basically souphttpsrc ! decodebin ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoxscale ! ximagesink. don't see why any of this should stop working.01:56
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woglindeon the theora dsp blog site01:56
pupnikit would sure be nice to be smart01:56
w00tGeneralAntilles: is that sarcasm?01:57
w00tGeneralAntilles: I hope it is. :P01:57
CutMeOwnThroatwell... if it doesn't work out, we can always settle for being smartasses01:57
woglindepupnik did I tell moblin now ships the iegd for poulsbo?01:57
* w00t stops typing today before his fingers bleed01:58
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pupnikthe whatnow woglinde ?01:58
lardman|homeLostyJai: still need alpha and beta?01:58
GeneralAntillesw00t, yes, sarcasm.01:59
Shapeshifteruh, and how do I get gst-launch onto my n900 anyway? >.> I'm surprised it's not there01:59
Shapeshifterand I can't find it through apt-cache01:59
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GeneralAntillesw00t, I have a long-standing bad relationship with that fellow.01:59
lardman|homegst-tools01:59
Shapeshifterlardman|home: thanks!01:59
lardman|homeor gstreamer-tools01:59
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w00tGeneralAntilles: let me find my reaction on another blog recycling that garbage01:59
ShadowJKpupnik, unfortunately the IVA part of it isn't documented :)01:59
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w00tThat is all blown totally out of proportion and poorly researched, as much as I’d expect from a site like that frankly.01:59
GeneralAntillesw00t, he's an idiot, quite frankly.02:00
w00t*g*02:00
woglindepupnik powervr kern in poulsbo is nearly the same as in omap355002:00
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ptlerrr02:00
w00tGeneralAntilles: yeah, I pretty much got an immediate reaction of "and nothing of value was lost"02:00
ptljust got notice of a new maemo 5 update on my N90002:00
GeneralAntillesw00t, it's not often that an avatar will tell you everything you need to know about a person.02:00
GeneralAntillesHowever, http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/126/918911.jpg02:00
w00thahah.02:01
ptlbut it says that to update I need to use the PC update application02:01
pupnikohhh so poulsbo is something intel made, that might get us better / neater dsp stuff in meego woglinde ?02:01
ptlhow should I update?02:01
LostyJailardman|home: YES YES I DO!!!02:01
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ptlwhich I don't have, I think02:01
ptlI use ubuntu linux02:01
lardman|homeLostyJai: oh good, was about to hit the sack thinking you'd left02:01
ptlcan someone tell me what to do?02:01
LostyJaino no i'm here02:01
LostyJai><02:01
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lardman|home:)02:02
LostyJaii'll be here for another 7 hours02:02
LostyJai=(02:02
lardman|homeok, hang on a min or two02:02
LostyJaistupid work02:02
LostyJaisure thing man02:02
LostyJaiREALLY REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!!!!02:02
cehteh..02:02
rangepupnik: I thought poulsbo still needs closed drivers?02:02
ShadowJKptl: there's probably a conflict with something you've installed from extras-devel or extras-testing02:02
frals~curse python-dbus02:02
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, python-dbus !02:02
cehtehLostyJai: i have to setup my ssh key from the device on the server to upload it02:03
ptlShadowJK: how do I discover what?02:03
LostyJai??02:03
LostyJaicehteh: don't worry dude, lardman is doing it for me02:03
LostyJaithanks02:03
GeneralAntilles<3 HTML5 YouTube02:03
GeneralAntillesh.264 it may be, but it aint Flash!02:03
ShadowJKptl: btw the flashing software for linux is available at tablets-dev.nokia.com, as well as firmware images. it's not an update anymore, it wipes /02:03
LostyJaihtml5 youtube? where!?02:03
pupnikrange: i just heard of paulsbro for the first time right now bro02:04
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Shapeshifter"a multipart demuxer plugin is required to play this stream but not installed" :( wth02:04
GeneralAntillesLostyJai, ther's an opt-in beta.02:04
cehtehok then is stop02:04
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GeneralAntillesLostyJai, Google should take you to the opt-in page.02:04
woglindepupnik hm intressting02:04
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ShadowJKptl: probably apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade in xterm would help to narrow it down. I think there's even a wiki page with instructions02:04
Aranelhow much free space do I need for upgrade?02:04
ptlShadowJK: know the URL?02:04
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ShadowJKnope :(02:05
ShadowJKAranel: someone said 45M02:05
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GeneralAntillesAnybody have any details on the new Ovi paid implementation, by the way?02:05
LostyJaithanks02:05
AranelThanks ShadowJK :)02:06
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GeneralAntillesSeeking on YouTube videos has never worked reliably for me until now.02:06
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SpeedEvilI find my strategy of seeking to avoid works.02:07
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, *g*02:08
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wazdseriously, no Flash pros here? :(02:08
ptlShadowJK: no conflicts :/02:08
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ShadowJKptl: how much free space? df -h /02:09
ptl40.6M on /, 1.7 G on /home, 24.1 G in /home/user/MyDocs02:09
xe2000how can i inststall mozilla weave into microb 3.0?02:10
LostyJaiso curious02:10
LostyJaihow do you switch to html5 player instead of flash02:10
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ptlgo to youtube.com/html5 and choose html 502:10
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SpeedEvilDiddn't work for me02:11
LostyJaidon't see the option02:11
SpeedEvilthat is - it worked - but no codecs02:11
cehtehanyone found a changelog for 1.1.1?02:11
GeneralAntillescehteh, it's on the wiki, just like PR1.102:11
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GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.102:11
cehtehthanks02:12
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ShadowJKhttp://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting02:12
dracflamlocwhat causes the rootfs to fill up02:12
SpeedEvilLogs from the front camera when you're naked.02:12
ShadowJKinstalling crap from extras-devel or extras-testing for example02:12
SpeedEvilMore seriously - installing stuff02:12
dracflamlocok02:13
SpeedEvilAnd some application problems.02:13
dracflamlocis the memory used summary accurate in the app manager?02:13
ShadowJKptl: ioquake?02:13
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ShadowJKdracflamloc: it's not helpful at all in figuring out what uses sopace on /02:13
dracflamlocah02:14
dracflamlocso is there anything helpful there?02:14
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dracflamlocim at 90%02:14
dracflamlocand it wont let me upgrade02:14
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SpeedEvildracflamloc: what does it say?02:14
dracflamlocnot enough memory in target location02:15
ShadowJKDisable extras-devel and extras-testing in app manager, they consume about 18M just to have enabled iirc02:15
dracflamlocah02:15
ptlShadowJK: yes, I have it installed. Should I uninstall it?02:16
ptland thanks for the URL02:16
ptlI'll check02:16
dracflamlochow much total space is in rootfs?02:16
ShadowJKptl: says you need to unistall it02:16
ShadowJKdracflamloc: 256M02:16
GeneralAntillesLittle less02:17
GeneralAntillesMinus kernel and bootloader02:17
dracflamlocso whats a 'good' amount to have free?02:17
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ptllemme try it02:18
SpeedEvilIIRC it starts at 50M or so free02:18
matthew-any forum moderator here?02:18
ShadowJKSpeedevil: nah I had almost 62M free earlier today02:18
cehtehonly disabling some repos without uninstalling anything sovled it for me btw02:18
matthew-still no bloody update for people in the UK!02:19
ShadowJKNow at 57.9M free after 1.1.1 upgrade02:19
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ShapeshiftermereI: there's nothign exciting about the update02:19
Shapeshiftermatthew-:  ^02:19
dracflamlocbugfixes realted to battery are always exciting ;)02:19
Shapeshifterget it tomorrow or something02:19
ShadowJKmatthew-, if you asking about forum moderators and the firmware upgrade are somehow related I'll be depressed02:20
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matthew-ShadowJK: No, i want to request a change of title of my post on forum02:20
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ptlthat was it, thanks, ShadowJK :)02:20
adalalhey, how do you get the new pr 1.1.1 upgrade for maemo5?02:20
matthew-ShadowJK: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=531063 this one, get rid of the natively.02:21
adalali ran an update, and it didn't show up?02:21
ptlthat's weird, a game encumbering an OS upgrade02:21
ptladalal: for me it did02:21
ptlmaybe you removed/disabled some repository?02:21
adalalptl: hm, i'll have a look again :S02:21
ptldownloading 16.2 MB02:21
ptlwon't even make a security backup now02:21
dracflamlocok so looks like i have 42mb free now02:21
lardman|homenight all02:22
LostyJaianyone downloaded that freeciv game?02:22
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ptlbecause my device is brand new... and I have even customized it properly02:22
ptl*haven't02:22
cehtehyou could flash the new image then instead02:23
adalalptl: running a backup first i suppose02:23
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ptladalal: no, as it is new, I am not running a backup02:23
ptlthere is no personal data yet on it02:23
adalali suppose02:23
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ptlI really really really really really reall really like my N900. I sincerely hope meego does not screw up. It would be very easy for them to do that.02:24
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cehtehmhm ...the backup app is pluginable .. someone writing a dotfile backup would get some karma02:24
adalalbackup app?02:25
adalalwait...02:25
adalalwhat are the updates like?02:25
cehtehthis buildin backup thingy02:25
adalalany changes to that?02:25
ptlupdating...02:25
ptl(holding breath)02:26
adalallol k02:26
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ptlmeego is very close to portuguese 'meigo', which means something like 'gay'. People laughed hard on brazilian forums.02:27
ShadowJKcehteh: apps can ask for their dotfiles to be backed up02:27
ShadowJKfew do so02:27
Sceltptl: meego reminds me of lego02:27
ptlrebooting device02:27
cehtehShadowJK: is that noted in some configfile?02:27
ptl(heart beating rapidly)02:27
ShadowJKdunno02:27
ptloh, the Nokia logo startup now has a progress bar02:28
ptlnice02:28
ptl:)02:28
adalallol02:28
Sceltfor the update only I think02:28
cehtehyes02:28
timeless_mbpptl: that's just for the flashing phase02:28
ptlalthough it spoils the suspense of looking at that bright blue nokia logo.02:28
ptltimeless_mbp: oh, I didn't know, I thought it was just rebooting.02:28
timeless_mbpif you used a 770 or n8x0 you'd be more familiar with it02:28
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timeless_mbpthere are 3 or so different band colors02:29
timeless_mbpdark blue, light blue, green02:29
timeless_mbpfor the 770 iirc dark blue was the standard boot progress02:29
timeless_mbpand iirc green is generally the flashing color02:29
timeless_mbpiirc the dark blue was replaced by light blue w/ a later version02:29
adalalwhere are the backupfiles located on the n900?02:29
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ptlrebooting now02:29
ptlrebooted already???02:30
timeless_mbpadalal: either in ~/MyDocs or /media/mmc*02:30
cehtehadalal: in MyDocs or on the microsd02:30
adalalthank02:30
ptlthat was blazingly fast02:30
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ptl'operating system updated successfully'02:30
ptlcool02:30
* ptl calms down02:30
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tgalal__Anybody knows how to deal with EBookQuery objects???02:32
cehtehthe 'cam can only write to FAT' isnt fixed .. doh02:32
timeless_mbpcehteh: i'm not quite sure why you'd expect it to be fixed quickly02:32
timeless_mbpespecially not in a *MINOR* release02:32
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* timeless_mbp isn't even sure if there's an entire team left02:33
cehtehi just have hopes02:33
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cehtehtimeless_mbp: duh02:33
timeless_mbpand why would you expect it to be a top priority when it's absolutely clear that it's entirely unsupported02:33
* timeless_mbp often hates end users02:33
* cehteh hopes to get rid of fat someday02:34
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adalali dont get it, how come mine keeps saying (no updates available)? i have the nokia system software updates repository enabled :S02:37
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AranelShadowJK: I have 45megs free now still cant upgrade :/02:38
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ptlwhy is Microsoft even trying to do something with windows mobile 7? It's already over for them.02:38
GAN900Aranel, because it says not enough space?02:38
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* GAN900 did it with 40MB02:38
woglindeptl they have the money02:38
ptlit does not get close to android, maemo/meego, iPhoneOS02:38
glassptl: a company like microsoft would probably run a mobile os department just for the heck of it02:38
ptlwoglinde: sometimes it is not enough02:38
timeless_mbpptl: err02:38
ptlglass: that is the most probable reason, I think02:38
* adalal is confused as to why I can't upgrade to the new PR02:39
timeless_mbpNokia is busy trying to run two competing mobile platforms02:39
timeless_mbpboth which are reinventing themselves02:39
AranelGAN900: It says I should use my PC instead.02:39
timeless_mbpintel is trying to do one02:39
timeless_mbpgoogle is trying to do one02:39
timeless_mbpapple is trying to do one02:39
timeless_mbpwhy *shouldn't* microsoft try to do one?02:39
vmlemon_Palm, Samsung too02:39
timeless_mbpat least, afaik microsoft isn't trying to do *two* anymore02:39
vmlemon_Not forgetting RIM...02:39
* timeless_mbp hopes wince is dead02:39
ptltimeless_mbp: because they're too far behind02:39
woglindequalcom too02:39
timeless_mbpptl: very funny02:39
glasstimeless_mbp: well, dunno how you count zune02:39
woglindelimo too02:39
timeless_mbpsymbian is frozen and incredibly behind02:40
vmlemon_I can't see BREW lasting much longer02:40
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timeless_mbpglass: sorry. you're right, at least they're only trying to do 2, instead of 3 :)02:40
woglindevmlemon *g*02:40
LostyJaidate selection in maemo5, possible to show the week day?02:41
cehtehtimeless: well no comment about samsung02:41
glasshehe02:41
glasssamsung02:41
LostyJaiie: mon, tue, wed, thur, fri, sat, sun02:41
matthew-http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=53095702:41
cehteh.. bebe baba bada?02:41
matthew-Voila !02:41
glasssamsung does everything02:41
vmlemon_Just need HTC or LG to make a splash with a "We're going to make our own platform, and keep it all to ourselves" announcement02:41
glassthey're whores02:41
timeless_mbpcehteh: an exhaustive list of mobile platforms is a waste of time :)02:41
timeless_mbpbut the point is that it's definitely an open area02:41
glassthats their problem too, they do everything02:41
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timeless_mbpand if you have money to burn, why not?02:41
timeless_mbpms has money to burn02:41
cehtehbada was its name or? it sux balls imo02:41
GeneralAntillesAranel, yeah, that's not a space issue.02:42
GeneralAntillesAranel, there's a package conflict.p02:42
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glasscehteh: and if you use a few samsung mobiles from past years it's quite obvious they got too many teams02:42
* vmlemon_ ponders the fate of the various platforms based upon Nucleus and numerous other RTOSes02:42
glasseven in non-smartphone02:42
cehtehi dint even looked at them02:42
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matthew-wazd: can you fix my post pls?02:43
AranelGeneralAntilles: :/ do you have any idea how can I locate the faulty package?02:43
cehtehand i buyed a n900 because its open and free software (mosty) not because i am nokia fanboy02:43
vmlemon_Sure, it's not a smartphone platform, but I hear that the S40 folks aren't doing too well, what with talks of Nokia laying developers off...02:43
wazdmatthew-: where?02:43
matthew-wazd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=53095702:43
GeneralAntillesAranel, check the log from the menu.02:43
matthew-Subject02:43
GeneralAntillesAranel, failing that apt-get may tell you.02:43
glassvmlemon_: well how many guys does s40 team really need?02:43
matthew-remobe the nativaly please.02:43
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glassvmlemon_: s40 team is doing brilliantly in sold phone numbers though02:44
vmlemon_It's been said that Nokia could still make a nice profit if they never added new features to S40, and just kept repackaging the hardware02:44
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vmlemon_Indeed02:44
glassvmlemon_: well check out nokias average device price02:44
wazdmatthew-: no, sorry, I'm design only moderator02:44
GeneralAntillesmatthew-, you can edit your own posts.02:45
vmlemon_Still, they're slowly adding bits and pieces on, and they renovated the Web browser recently02:45
glassyeh02:45
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glassit's the j2me vm i'd like to see some changes to in s4002:45
matthew-GeneralAntilles: I cant .. :)02:45
matthew-GeneralAntilles: I cant moderate the title of the hread.02:46
matthew-thread*02:46
vmlemon_Would be interesting to see Nokia deciding to "pull a Bada", and open the platform to native code, but I can never see that happening02:46
AranelGeneralAntilles: log shows nothing. I dont know how to check it via apt.02:46
ptlthis ICA client on N900 is wonderful02:46
ptlif I only could use it.02:46
timeless_mbp?02:46
ptlat my job the wireless is LEAP02:46
ptlso i can't.02:46
vmlemon_It'd probably cannibalise their other platforms, too02:46
timeless_mbpLEAP?02:46
matthew-ptl: :( Sorry02:46
glassvmlemon_: i foresee symbian hitting sub 100$'s02:46
ptlWPA2 with LEAP02:46
GeneralAntillesAranel, apt-get dist-upgrade from console as root and copy the output to a pastebin.02:47
ptlCisco proprietary EAP extension, timeless_mbp02:47
GeneralAntillesAranel, but don't run it yet.02:47
matthew-ptl: I only need it for running bloomberg ;d02:47
timeless_mbpyum02:47
vmlemon_Cisco-proprietary Wi-Fi security protocol02:47
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ptlmatthew-: I need that for my job too...02:47
tgalal__wth is EBookQuery useful for?!02:47
matthew-ptl: bloomberg?:)02:47
ptlICA Client02:47
matthew-ah02:47
matthew-ok.02:47
ptlI don't even know what bloomberg is02:47
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vmlemon_News and financial agency02:48
timeless_mbpbloomberg = business news02:48
matthew-ptl: well the ICA Client does work.02:48
matthew-yeah, stock quotes02:48
matthew-company info etc..02:48
matthew-awesome thing.02:48
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AranelGeneralAntilles: http://pastebin.com/d42cdabfb02:50
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AranelGeneralAntilles: seems like its related with decoders pack?02:51
GeneralAntillesAranel, weird. OK, apt-get remove decoders-support02:51
GeneralAntillesOr, actually, you can remove it from h-a-m too02:51
GeneralAntillesThen you should be able to upgrade without issue.02:51
ptladalal: got your update yet?02:51
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SWFu64Still no update in the UK here02:52
matthew-ptl: I didnt in the uk02:53
matthew-;]02:53
matthew-pretty annoying02:53
SpeedEvilNone here - UK02:53
SpeedEvilIIRC it took a couple od days last time02:53
GeneralAntillesI'm pretty sure UK falls behind most of Asian for support.02:53
SpeedEvilso friday?02:53
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GeneralAntilless/Asian/Asia/02:53
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I'm pretty sure UK falls behind most of Asia for support.02:53
wazdwee, I've found Flash Guru :)02:53
matthew-SpeedEvil: no no, it was same day last time.02:53
SWFu64The last update I got pretty fast02:53
wazdBeware!02:53
SpeedEvilAssuming same rollout schedule02:53
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SpeedEvilMaybe I upgraded late02:53
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AranelGeneralAntilles: removed, now trying again :) thanks02:55
GeneralAntillesAranel, I dunno how we managed to regress in the area of h-a-m error reporting. . . .02:55
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: did you see the ham button dance?02:56
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, not as far as I'm aware.02:56
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ptlI am in Brazil and I got the update02:56
AranelGeneralAntilles: still does not install.02:56
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ptland N900 isn't even sold in Brazil02:56
GeneralAntillesAranel, same reason?02:56
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AranelGeneralAntilles: keeps asking for PC flashing instead. tried dist-up again and: 37 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.02:57
GeneralAntillesHrm02:58
ptlAranel: removed ioquake3?02:58
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cibi043f04400438043204350442 043204410435043c02:58
GeneralAntillesUm, well, if you can symlink the apt cache then you can just use apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade.02:58
cibi043a0442043e 04420430 044204430442 043504410442044c ?02:58
cibiHello ?>02:58
cibihi all ?>02:58
ptllots of control characters in cibi lines02:58
ptlcan't see any color or something02:58
Aranelptf: nope, ill try now :)02:58
cibino02:58
cibiss02:59
cibiCan you help me ?02:59
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GeneralAntillesAranel, if ioquake3 doesn't help, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5746 for details on symlinking.02:59
povbot`Bug 5746: symlink /var/cache/apt/archives to /home/apt-archives02:59
cibiis it only ENGLISH ?02:59
GeneralAntillescibi, yes.02:59
cibiim first time her03:00
cibiwhat this room about ?> Infromatik ?03:00
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cibi<GeneralAntilles>03:01
SpeedEvilcibi: A phone OS.03:01
cibi a ?03:01
cibipardone ?03:01
Aranelok. thanks :) I hate this rootfs space problems, arent they considered as bugs?03:01
SpeedEvilcibi: A mobile phone operating system.03:02
cibiohh thx03:02
GeneralAntillesAranel, PR1.2 should be optifying a lot of built-in stuff.03:02
cibibut how can i go other room to Computers ?>03:02
cibi<SpeedEvil>03:02
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cibicomputer help like this03:02
wiretappedcibi: how did you get here?03:03
Aranel^^ now I'm more interested about next PR03:03
Aranel:)03:03
cibii dont know lol03:03
Lumpio-Caution: this is the internet03:03
wiretappedis there a changelog for today's update?03:03
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cibii need help eh03:04
Lumpio-You may be charged for long distance03:04
cibiim from Portugal but im Russian lol03:04
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GeneralAntilleswiretapped, wiki, same as PR1.103:04
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AranelGeneralAntilles and ptf: after removing ioquake, now it seems its OK. I don't have any idea why a game cause a firmware update fail, anyway if it works its OK :)03:05
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GeneralAntillesAranel, PR1.1.1 adds GLES 1.103:06
ptlptf?03:06
ptllol03:06
GeneralAntillesAranel, which may cause weirdness with ioquake3's packaging03:06
ptlAranel: that was my doubt too, it's weird :)03:06
Aranelptl* :P sorry. xchat on N900 sometimes gets uncomfortable.03:07
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GeneralAntillesAranel, you can add tab.03:07
Aranelhow? theres no HW button03:08
GeneralAntillesAranel, see the comments on http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/12/17/remapping-the-n900-arrow-keys/03:08
ptlwow, you really love your N90003:09
ptlI used that blog post to add accents to my N90003:09
ptlI'm thinking about adding ce-cedilla now03:09
Aranelthanks again :) I'll work on it after PR update.03:09
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* djdm is xchatting on his N900 too03:11
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zelrikriandohello03:22
adalalanybody know why an n900 wouldn't update to 1.1.1?03:22
adalalhello03:22
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GeneralAntillesadalal, remove ioquake3?03:22
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adalalGeneralAntilles: i doubt i've ever installed that, and even then, the update isn't showing up03:24
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: do we have a list of things known to cause conflicts?03:24
timeless_mbpit should be on a wiki03:24
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I think there's a list for PR1.103:24
GeneralAntillesDunno how much applies to PR1.1.103:24
GeneralAntillesadalal, UK?03:24
adalalyes03:24
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timeless_mbpUK is "special"03:24
GeneralAntillesadalal, then the waiting game is what you're playing03:24
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timeless_mbppeople shouldn't use the UK image03:25
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timeless_mbpit's designed to give them pain03:25
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adalalGeneralAntilles: how come there's a waiting game?03:25
GeneralAntillesFor some reason Nokia UK is really far behind anywhere else.03:25
timeless_mbpjust backup everything and reflash w/ the normal universal build03:25
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adalalreflash my device?03:25
timeless_mbps/backup/back up/03:25
infobottimeless_mbp meant: just back up everything and reflash w/ the normal universal build03:25
adalalhmm03:25
adalalwhat are the difference?03:26
timeless_mbpadalal: afaik there is *no* reason to use the uk version03:26
timeless_mbpsadly, i have no idea what's different about the uk version03:26
timeless_mbpother than it's "special"03:26
zelrikriandois it easy to stop processes with maemo?03:26
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adalalzelrikriando: using pkill yes03:27
adalalor killall03:27
timeless_mbpzelrikriando: eh?03:27
timeless_mbpsomeone even wrote a graphical task manager03:27
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timeless_mbpit was moderately shiny03:27
* timeless_mbp isn't sure where they put it03:27
zelrikriandoI am asking because I am having difficulties with Android03:27
zelrikriandoso I was wondering if maemo was better :p03:27
timeless_mbpzelrikriando: w/ maemo there are only two reasons not to kill things03:28
timeless_mbp1. if they're stuck in a kernel lock (eNotOurFault)03:28
timeless_mbp2. if there's a lifeguard applied and you kill it enough times in a short enough period, the lifeguard will reboot your device03:28
zelrikriandook03:29
zelrikriandosounds like the same deal as android03:29
GeneralAntillesStopping processes is as simple as "stop <process>" as root.03:30
adalalmm, are there any risks of permanently bricking the device?03:30
zelrikriandono03:30
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timeless_mbpzelrikriando: triggering the lifeguard takes a lot of effort03:30
zelrikriandobut if for instance I disable google talk, the app market doesnt work anymore03:30
timeless_mbpand the kernel issue applies to any platform03:30
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timeless_mbpbsd, winnt, linux03:30
GeneralAntilleszelrikriando, yeah, no, there's no silly Nokia services integration shit like that.03:31
zelrikriandook03:31
zelrikriandoThat s good news03:31
zelrikriandoAndroid has been pissing me off lately03:32
zelrikriandoI think I ll try another kind of phone next03:32
vmlemon_Android sucks, full stop. At least of the analysis at http://dw2blog.com/2010/02/10/the-mobile-multitasking-advantage/ is anything to go by...03:32
brady47well, the ovi store doesn't work in the first place so you don't have to worry about messing it up killing processes :)03:33
zelrikriandoWell I am in favor of multitasking though03:33
zelrikriandobrady47: lol03:33
zelrikriandoWhat I am not in favor is mandatory updates that unroot my phone Oo03:34
GeneralAntilleszelrikriando, no worries there.03:34
zelrikriandoand almost bricks it on the way03:34
vmlemon_Was amusing to hear that Microsoft finally hobbled their OS as far as multitasking is concerned. I always thought that would be a signature feature for them...03:35
brady47yeah, I saw some blog post Jobs is now blocking hackers from itunes store !03:35
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: does N900 work on Rogers?03:35
zelrikriandoOh Rogers03:35
zelrikriandothose *****03:35
zelrikriandoAll the pain I have is because of them I am sure03:35
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, think so, but don't think there's any carrier in Canada that uses the right 3G frequencies.03:35
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: ... so no03:35
luke-jrhow could it work if they don't use the right frequencies?03:36
timeless_mbpluke-jr: i should know in july :)03:36
brady47no 3g, just gsm03:36
brady47just gprs03:36
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, WCDMA is usually different from GSM.03:36
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: Rogers recently shoved an "update" to their Android users that prevents rooting them03:36
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, so it'll work for voice and EDGE, but not HSPA.03:36
timeless_mbpluke-jr: nice of them03:36
zelrikriandoluke-jr: I am a victim too03:37
ptlI am switching m operator because of that too03:37
luke-jrdon't think anything stops them from doing the same to Maemo/N90003:37
ptl*my03:37
chaoyianyone has used dbus-send on N900? I am new to dbus and couldn't figure out what I did wrong.03:37
timeless_mbpluke-jr: who cares?03:37
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, um, does Rogers sell the N900?03:37
timeless_mbplast i checked, roger's data plans were not particularly friendly03:37
zelrikriandoThere is no such thing as switching operator in Canada03:37
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: doesn't matter; they locked all phones,  not just ones they subsidized03:37
timeless_mbpchaoyi: did you --print-reply?03:37
zelrikriandoThey are all partners03:37
wazddamn, it's so uncomfortable to watch olimpics in here :(03:37
chaoyitimeless_mbp http://pastebin.com/m7cfcf47203:37
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GeneralAntillesluke-jr, um, how does that work?03:38
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chaoyitimeless_mbp: i looked at the documentation at http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/bluez/network-api.txt03:38
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, if you bring your own SIm and get your updates from Nokia, where does Rogers come into the picture?03:38
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: they blocked them from using the network unless you applied it03:38
luke-jrat least, that's my understanding of it03:39
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, yeah, FUD.03:39
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, what you're claiming is possible makes no sense.03:39
luke-jrsure it does03:39
zelrikriandoWell that s what they did to android at least03:39
zelrikriandonot sure they can do the same to maemo03:39
ptlnow meego03:39
luke-jrif your phone doesn't send some packet within a minute, it can boot you; then have the magic packet sent by a known-locked firmware03:39
ptldoes maemo changing to meego makes it more probably that they do that?03:39
luke-jrzelrikriando: I don't see what would stop them03:40
zelrikriandoluke-jr: I think they can only do that to the phones they sell03:40
GeneralAntillesptl, no.03:40
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zelrikriandoIf you bring your own phone, they have no right on it03:40
SpeedEvilzelrikriando: they can choose to do it to any phone, if they choose to, and the regulator will let them.03:40
luke-jrzelrikriando: no right to, but when has that ever stopped a company?03:40
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SpeedEvilzelrikriando: unless they are under some obligation to provide internet access.03:40
SpeedEvil<03:41
zelrikriandoSpeedEvil: that s what is pissing me off03:41
zerojayluke-jr: I have used my N900 for months on Rogers... so what are you talking about?03:41
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zelrikriandoThey are all 'regulated'03:41
luke-jrzerojay: I'm talking about theory.03:41
zerojayI'm just catching up on the conversation.03:41
zelrikriandobasically a monopoly03:41
luke-jrzerojay: in theory, CompanyX could require you to install a package that locks you out of root, and rosegarden you until you do03:42
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zelrikriandoluke-jr: that is if you sign their EULA03:42
zerojayluke-jr: How did Rogers lock all phones, not just those they subsidized?03:43
luke-jrzerojay: something like that, I think03:43
zerojayluke-jr: They don't.03:43
zerojayMy cell phone gaming company has had about 400 different phones from all over the world on 4 different sim cards over 3 years. They don't care.03:43
zerojayLots of fun paying over $4000 in data charges.03:44
zerojayPer month.03:44
woglindegood nite03:44
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zelrikriandozerojay: I am pretty sure they can unroot a phone that s rooted though03:45
zelrikriandothey did that to all their HTC Magic customers03:45
zerojayzelrikriando: Unrooted them remotely?03:45
zelrikriandozerojay: not remotely03:45
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zelrikriandobut enforcing a patch03:45
zelrikriandoby disabling the 3G03:46
zerojayI don't see the problem there.03:46
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zelrikriandozerojay: " You apply patch or no more connexion for you"03:46
GeneralAntilleszelrikriando, to people who bought them subsidized?03:46
zelrikriandoGeneralAntilles: yeah03:46
zerojayAgain, I don't see the problem with that as long as you're using their service with their terms and their subsidized phones.03:46
GeneralAntilleszelrikriando, sounds like their own damn fault, then.03:47
luke-jrzelrikriando: people who bought them non-subsidized were immune?03:47
zelrikriandozerojay: That's the reason I am looking for unlocked phones that are no subsidized :)03:47
zerojayNothing stopping Rogers from saying it's a security fix, because technically, it is.03:47
zelrikriandoluke-jr: I dont know about that03:47
zerojayAnd since it's their own phone... I don't see the issue.03:48
zelrikriandoI think they ll have more trouble for an unsubsidized phone03:48
zelrikriandobecause they cant say it s their software03:48
luke-jrthey can't say it's theirs even for a subsidized phone AFAIK03:48
zerojayIt's still their network.03:48
luke-jrthey sold it to you at a lower price in exchange for a service contract03:49
ml-mobilemmm, customer abuse03:49
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, and special vendor software.03:49
luke-jryou're obliged to keep service with them, but AFAIK you still own it03:49
zelrikriandoI dont think it s Android the issue03:49
zelrikriandothe Nexus One is rooted by default03:49
zelrikriandoyou can unlock it in the bootloader03:49
luke-jrforcing a patch by denying service arguably lets you terminate the contract w/o fines, assuming they didn't include it originally03:49
zerojayAll i know is that I walked directly downstairs from my work office in Quebec to Rogers, told the guy there straight out that I was going to be using an unlocked Nokia prototype and the dude didn't blink once and never said there was any issues.03:50
luke-jrzerojay: that matters how? XD03:50
zelrikriandozerojay: I tend to agree with you. I think luke-jr is generalizing :p03:51
luke-jrcustomer-facing people tend to not have any authority03:51
zerojayIt matters quite a bit when you're saying what you are.03:51
zerojayRogers did fuck me over though.03:52
zerojayThey had a promo for their rocketstick for 2 years and I decided to grab it and suddenly saw that my account online was saying that the contract was for 3 years, not 2.03:52
zelrikriandowell if you sign for 2 years you can show them the freaking contract03:53
* luke-jr concurs03:53
zerojayI called them up and the people that I talked to all said "wow, that's really weird... and that shouldn't be right, but we can't do anything about it if you signed it."03:53
zelrikriandoif you sign on paper that is03:53
go1dfishhow much space do I have to free on / to do this new update?03:53
* luke-jr thinks it's ridiculous how people just give in to companies that abuse them03:53
zelrikriandoNext time, I ll just crossed out what I dont like in the EULA03:54
zelrikriandoif I have to sign an EULA again that is03:54
AlMehdido they enforce the patch on all the phones?03:54
zerojayMy copy of the contract said 2 years, Rogers claimed theirs says 3.03:54
luke-jrzerojay: you have your copy?03:54
ml-mobilegoldfish: ~16MB, you can disable the extras repos temporarily for easy space03:54
zerojayGuy at the local Rogers store said that even if I get stuck with 3 years, I should at least complain so that I GET something for that extra year in some way.03:55
zerojayluke-jr: Yeah, I do.03:55
go1dfishml-mobile: hmm I have like 30 free and it's saying I don't have enough mem in target location03:55
zerojayApparently doesn't matter.03:55
luke-jrzerojay: then ignore them and threaten to sue for harassment if they don't stfu?03:55
zerojayluke-jr: How are they harassing me?03:55
luke-jrzerojay: if they don't harrass you, then what's the problem? :p03:55
zelrikriandolol what03:56
zelrikriandomy boss was so smart03:56
zelrikriandohe bought an ipod touch03:56
zelrikriandoand jailbroke it03:56
zelrikriandoand that was it03:56
zerojaySounds dumb to me.03:56
luke-jrjust call them up sometime around 2 years and tell them you won't be renewing your subscription03:56
zelrikriandono phone plan03:56
zelrikriando:D03:56
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luke-jrzelrikriando: ... why?03:56
zerojayzelrikriando: So... he's.. enjoying being useless when mobile?03:57
ml-mobileipod touches don't have phone plan...03:57
zerojayml-mobile: Yes, we know.03:57
* luke-jr can't think of anything he could possibly do with an iPod Touch03:57
zelrikriandozerojay: he just picks whatever wifi he can get03:58
go1dfishml-mobile: disabling extras seemed to do the trick though, thanks much03:58
zerojayzelrikriando: Wow.... that's terrible.03:58
zelrikriandozerojay: I think he doesnt like phones in general though03:58
zerojayI don't in general either.03:58
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luke-jrme either03:58
luke-jrlol03:58
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zerojayI hated phones with a passion and then I started making games for them and hearing alarms going off all day long.03:59
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zelrikriandoI am not sure what my next phone will be04:00
luke-jrI used to use a calling card with some VoIP toy that could make free 800 # calls <.<04:00
* GeneralAntilles tries to decide what to eat for second dinner.04:00
luke-jrfor my home phone04:00
zelrikriandobut I hope I can get a good unlocked phone in Canada04:00
luke-jrzelrikriando: Nexus Two with 100% custom firmware?04:00
zelrikriandonot sure about Google04:01
GeneralAntillesN900!04:01
zelrikriandoThey broke my heart04:01
zelrikriandolol04:01
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zelrikriandoGeneralAntilles: a new phone might come up before I change my phone04:01
* luke-jr doesn't care about the company, just hardware04:01
zelrikriandoI ll keep what I have until my contract almost expire04:02
zelrikriandoor until Rogers pisses me off enough04:02
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go1dfishis there a changelog for this firmware anywhere yet?04:03
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GeneralAntillesgo1dfish, on the wiki, like the last one.04:03
zerojaygo1dfish: Get on TMO. It's all there.04:03
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.104:03
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles04:03
go1dfishthanks04:03
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Please join #meego for MeeGo related questions | http://www.maemoit.org/extra/lapide.jpg | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1"04:03
zerojayIsn't Bell supposed to be setting up the right 3g frequencies supported by the N900 soon?04:03
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go1dfishyeah I was looking on TMO, but all I was seeing was the 800 post long 'announcement' that it existed04:04
pupnik_http://www.cyber1.org/  <<< we totally need this awesomeness for maemo :)  first multiuser graphical computer system04:04
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: I'm online, have the day off work (our floor is flooded)04:14
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: I'll take it from here04:14
lpotteryay! for floods!04:16
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, take what? :P04:16
crashanddie_the channel04:16
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zerojaylol04:18
crashanddie_zerojay: shush, it's mine04:19
GeneralAntilleszerojay is just laughing because he's rigged it to blow!04:19
* GeneralAntilles runs!04:19
* crashanddie_ puts on his fart-brigade uniform04:19
crashanddie_Don't you dare blow on me, son!04:20
lpotterdont worry. it wont blow, there's too much water apparently04:21
matthew-any football fan?04:21
crashanddie_matthew-: you?04:21
matthew-crashanddie_: any other one?04:21
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crashanddie_matthew-: I'm sure there's a lot of football fans, maybe just not here?04:22
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GeneralAntillesI'm a Bucs fan.04:22
* GeneralAntilles grins.04:22
ml-mobilehandegg04:22
lpotteri find australian rules amusing04:22
crashanddie_~ml-mobile++04:22
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crashanddie_KamuiN900: I'm afraid you're going to have to leave04:24
crashanddie_KamuiN900: N900 devices are no longer tolerated in this channel04:24
crashanddie_KamuiN900: Only MeeGo-software is now authorised to join this channel04:24
KamuiN900!!!!!!! :)04:24
KamuiN900crashanddie_: its too soon for that04:24
KamuiN900you are hurting my feelings04:24
matthew-;)*Tatyana*: says: (02:24:18)04:24
matthew-as i said, i do make me laugh04:24
matthew-uh04:25
matthew-not this04:25
matthew-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGHLUc7ZmAs04:25
matthew-this04:25
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, so, /mode +b #maemo *!*@* ?04:25
luke-jrlol04:25
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: nope04:25
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie_04:25
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: no wait04:25
luke-jrI am using MeeGo on EFIKA04:25
luke-jr<.<04:25
*** crashanddie_ sets mode: +b *!*n900*@*04:25
crashanddie_there you go :)04:25
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kamui900:-D04:25
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GeneralAntillesEvil, evil.04:26
luke-jrshouldn't that be *!user@* ?04:26
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crashanddie_luke-jr: it was on purpose04:26
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kamui900you guys are taking the meego news so well04:26
kamui900im still on the verge of tear04:26
kamui900s04:26
luke-jrkamui900: in my case, I never liked Maemo04:26
crashanddie_kamui900: I had a hard time with it at first, but once Quim explained a few things it soon was a lot better04:26
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luke-jrif I was angry, it would be because I thought Nokia was trying to shed the bad reputation Maemo has04:27
luke-jrbut that would be naive since nobody actually gives Maemo the bad reputation it deserves :P04:27
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kamui900how many firmware releases for the n900 have there been04:34
kamui9002?04:34
kamui900or 304:34
crashanddie_Depends if you count pre-prod devices or not04:34
crashanddie_but public? 204:34
crashanddie_or 304:34
crashanddie_can't remember04:35
* crashanddie_ facepalms about his uselessness04:35
GeneralAntilles42-11, 51-1, 3-804:35
crashanddie_are those football scores?04:35
GeneralAntillesI can't name the Diablo release numbers anymore, however.04:35
crashanddie_or very, very long and weirdly counted tennis games?04:36
kamui900thanks ga.  is 3-8 not ota able?04:36
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, could be.04:36
GeneralAntilleskamui900, where are you located.04:36
kamui900us of a04:36
GeneralAntilleskamui900, should be, I did mine a few hours ago.04:36
kamui900hmm didnt show in my updates list04:36
kamui900ill keep trying04:37
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crashanddie_I killed my microusb charger04:37
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crashanddie_Need to charge through USB...04:37
GeneralAntillesFail04:38
GeneralAntilleskamui900, if that fails, might try an apt-get install mp-fremantle-gener-pr.04:38
kamui900found it :)04:38
crashanddie_http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/2/2/633692057194761860-handegg.jpg04:38
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, hey, it aint playing around. You don't see soccer players retiring with dementia. :P04:40
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: dementia is caused by the ridiculous amounts of steroids they pour in their SuckaFlakes04:40
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: Rugby is ten times the game American Football will ever be04:40
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, if your theory were correct, then MLB players would be getting it, too.04:41
crashanddie_and what the fuck, iPhoto launches when I plugin my n900?04:41
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: MLB?04:41
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, you can turn that off in settings.04:41
GeneralAntillesbaseball04:41
crashanddie_Listen, the world had very good sports to begin with04:42
crashanddie_Football (or Soccer), Criquet, and Rugby04:42
GeneralAntillesMeh, I didn't grow up on any of those.04:42
crashanddie_you idiots came around and just threw Football out of the window, and modified Rugby to Football, and Criquet to Baseball04:42
crashanddie_Baseball is criquet without the rebound on the ground, no that would be too complicated, no little wood chips behind the batter, because that's too hard to aim at, you make the bat round, because it's a lot easier to hit, and you make the ball bigger because it's a lot easier to see04:44
crashanddie_oh, and you get those big fail gloves to protect your petite prestine hands04:44
crashanddie_Same with rugby, you sew them until they bloody armoured tanks. I mean, why the hell did you even bother sending mechs during 2nd world war, you should've just sent football players04:45
crashanddie_ /rant04:45
GeneralAntillesI see I've touched a nerve. :D04:48
crashanddie_"All pretence has been abandonned, as both teams take to the field, naked, covered in lubricant to the sound of pounding techno"04:49
crashanddie_And that is exactly what American Football is: a travesty of sport, created for keeping the idle masses contempt and braindead04:50
kamuianyone know how to force apt to install a package that has unmet deps?04:51
kamuispecifically I want maemo-optify04:51
kamuiit needs a different version of perl than is installed04:51
kamuibut I suspect the actual version here doesn't matter04:51
ptlapt-get --force-all04:51
ptlapt-get --force-all install package04:51
kamuisuite04:51
ptloh04:51
ptlno04:51
ptlit's dpkg --force-all04:51
ptlyou have to do the following:04:51
ptlapt-get download package04:51
ptlthen04:51
kamuicrap, I see04:51
ptlgo to /var/cache/apt/archives04:51
kamuithen dpkg to install it04:51
ptlthen dpkg --force-all04:51
ptlyes04:51
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: I'm pretty sure these days we could have a guy being broadcast on every channel, wearing green trousers and a yellow shirt, just shaking a keyring in front of the camera, going "look at the shiny shiny", and people would just go "Oh look `$country has talent` is on, let's get some crisps, NOM NOM NOM"04:52
ptlbut in these cases I get a recipe where, if I am sure about the safety of the operation, I can open a deb package, change its dependencies, and repackage it04:52
ptlit's just a couple commands, want it?04:52
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, nobody eats crisps in the US.04:52
GeneralAntillesGTFO.04:52
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: I didn't say US, I said $country you $count04:53
GeneralAntilleslol04:53
crashanddie_anyway, time for cigarette and food, talk later04:53
ds3should be times for a 'f*g' and food? ;)04:54
ds3afterall, weren't we going for localization of english?04:54
GeneralAntillesds3, he's been really hung up on the homosexual stuff lately.04:54
ds3:D04:54
ds3oh I see Ogg is STILL not supported out of the box04:55
GeneralAntillesIt should be in Harmattan04:56
GeneralAntillesand adding support is as simple as installing one package from Extras, so, meh.04:56
ds3and that works seemlessly now?04:56
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ds3same can be said of that on the N800 but that doesn't quite work with the internal media player04:56
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GeneralAntillesds3, CPU usage is a bit high as of yet, but otherwise, yes.04:57
ds3oh nice04:57
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ds3is the N900 setup so that "nokia" or its approved proxies can shove updates down your unit w/o you knowing?04:58
GeneralAntillesNo04:58
kejen_hi, does anyone here know if it is possible to connect to jabber chats via conversations?04:58
GeneralAntillesAt least, no on any unlocked unit04:58
GeneralAntillesDunno about the locked ones04:58
kejen_i can do it with pidgin, but can't figure it out with conversations04:58
GeneralAntillesBut, then, who cares about those? :P04:58
ds3for the US, there aren't any locked units available (yet?)04:58
GeneralAntilleskejen_, add the account and connect?04:59
GeneralAntillesds3, no, only one I know of is from Vodafone.04:59
kamuikejen, probably have to install the conversations plugins pack04:59
kamuito get jabber working04:59
GeneralAntilleskamui, Jabber is supported out of the box.04:59
ds3same with AIM?04:59
kejen_i can get on jabber, but cant join a chat root04:59
kejen_room04:59
kamuiGeneralAntilles, probably right04:59
kamuidefinately right in fact04:59
GeneralAntillesds3, no, but Telepathy Extras are in Extras and work fine.04:59
kamuikejen: there's a convo rooms plugin, never tried it though05:00
ds3so other then full size SD slots and USB host, what else do I lose coming from the N800 then?05:00
kamuiI believe it allows for group chats and jabber chat rooms05:00
kejen_i did install the .8 plugins with hopes05:00
ds3it sounds like all the software issues are addressable with extras05:00
kejen_ahh, will check out the rooms plugin05:00
kejen_thanks05:00
GeneralAntillesds3, a hardware escape key and fullscreen key.05:00
GeneralAntillesds3, for the most part.05:01
ds3hw escape key?05:01
GeneralAntillesThe one under the dpad05:01
ds3I can do w/o the fullscreen key05:01
GeneralAntillesThe back one is just escape05:01
ds3oh the twisted arrow thingie05:01
ptlbtw05:01
ds3so much for running vi on a terminal there then :D05:01
ptlare the keys like the power button and volume button recognisable as 'keys' under X too?05:02
GeneralAntillesds3, there's a soft escape on the terminal toolbar05:02
ptlare they remappable?05:02
ptlthe buttons off the keyboard05:02
GeneralAntillesds3, and you can bind it to something on the keyboard if you want.05:02
GeneralAntillesptl, yes, yes.05:02
ds3so it is not fatal05:02
GeneralAntillesds3, host is really the only fatal thing.05:02
ds3and the LCD is the N810 one (transreflective, works in the Sun)?05:02
GeneralAntillesIt's a new one05:03
GeneralAntillesSony05:03
GeneralAntilles3.5"05:03
GeneralAntillesTransflective05:03
luke-jrds3: N900 display is significantly smaller05:03
ds3smaller? eek05:03
GeneralAntillesAh, didn't realize you missed that one.05:03
GeneralAntillesYeah, 3.5" vs 4.1"05:03
ds3800x480 on the N800 is small enough05:03
GeneralAntillesYou don't really notice it, though.05:03
GeneralAntillesAt least, I don't.05:03
ds3I assumed it was basically the N810 case/LCD05:03
* luke-jr would05:03
ds3I use it as a GPS and @#%@$$%$@# OSM maps seems to come out with the tiny font05:04
luke-jrwtf? I thought N800 didn't have GPS05:04
GeneralAntillesds3, build a headmount. :P05:04
ds3I use a BT GPS05:04
GeneralAntillesBluetooth05:04
luke-jro05:04
ds3headmount? composite output?05:04
GeneralAntillesOooh05:05
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: if he built a headmount, he wouldn't need something handheld05:05
GeneralAntillesBuild a HUD projector05:05
luke-jrcould stick a BB or EMX in a jacket05:05
ds3I made my own car mount for the 800 already05:05
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, I'm mostly thinking of something that holds the N900 in front of your face.05:05
GeneralAntillesI was being facetious.05:05
luke-jri c05:05
ds3oh :P05:05
GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, composite output is there.05:05
luke-jrdo current-gen TVs support composite anymore? O.o05:06
ds3it sounds like it is worth it but the tiny gotchas :(05:06
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, yes.05:06
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crashanddie_you would need special glasses or a lens to allow your eyes to focus05:06
crashanddie_in order to have it close to your face05:06
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sheepbataren't HUDs made with that in mind?05:06
luke-jrds3: no USB host, also05:06
luke-jrsheepbat: [21:05:31] <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, I'm mostly thinking of something that holds the N900 in front of your face.05:06
sheepbatoh05:06
ds3luke-jr: yeah, that is pretty high on my gotchas list05:07
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ds3but prehaps, I'll just make a little USB server with a BT interface :D05:07
luke-jrlol05:07
GeneralAntillesds3, I wonder how many of those you could sell.05:07
ds3I just need to be able to read a USB stick ocassionally05:07
luke-jrds3: personally, I'm waiting for a next-gen device like Nexus Two or such05:07
ds3GA: you think someone is actually interested in that?05:07
GeneralAntillesds3, I dunno.05:07
luke-jrds3: I think it would be a hot item05:07
luke-jrlots of people seem to miss USB host05:08
GeneralAntillesI bet there's be a couple hundred people who might buy if the price were right.05:08
sheepbatanyone with a smartphone with a tiny keyboard would want one05:08
ds3luke-jr: I have limited time... the N800 is wearing out (it is a daily use device)05:08
sheepbatwell.. not anyone05:08
GeneralAntillesIt'd probably have to be less than $50.05:08
sheepbatbut people who would want to type on them using a fullsize keyboard05:08
luke-jrds3: ah; SmartQ 5 perhaps?05:08
GeneralAntillesds3, just get it from somewhere with a reasonable return policy.05:08
ds3I can do $50 but that would only work with USB sticks05:08
ds3USB memory05:09
luke-jrsheepbat: Bluetooth keyboards exist05:09
ds3GA: I donno about that...that's a $150 premium05:09
sheepbat..good point05:09
kejen_I been meaning to ask, what is the point of that "mac os" folder with 0 length binary files in it?05:09
GeneralAntillesds3, well, if you get interested in the manufacturing, talk to jolouis.05:09
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ds3Dell seems to be the cheapests and I don't think they do returns (unless I am wrong)05:09
GeneralAntillesds3, he did the USB OTG adaptors for the N800/N810.05:09
GeneralAntillesds3, hrm, good point.05:10
ds3GA: I can do the manufacturing... I am manufacturing the LCD interfaces for the BB already05:10
GeneralAntillesThey should do returns, but I'm not sure if they have a restocking fee.05:10
luke-jrds3: O.O05:10
sheepbatahh, my screen protector is here05:10
GeneralAntillesds3, no, sorry, I know you can do it, but he's somebody who has experience with the market and might have some useful insights. ;)05:10
ds3it is either a stopgap buy a new battery for the N800 and hope the Treo tethering don't die or hold my nose and jump into the N90005:11
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ds3GA: gotcha05:11
ds3Hmmm for USB memory sticks, $50 should be doable05:13
ds3but a BB based solution is more fun ;)05:13
GeneralAntillesHaha05:13
GeneralAntillesThat's so excessive.05:13
ds3it is no worse then the C64 days when the diskdrives had faster CPUs ;)05:14
GeneralAntillesToo bad Bluetooth has no bandwidth05:14
GeneralAntillesElse you could do some other fun stuff with a setup like that.05:14
kamui*groan*05:14
ds3such as?05:15
kamuiI hate having to reflash for such a minor firmware upgrade05:15
GeneralAntillesVideo out and such05:15
kamui12 meg free on root05:15
GeneralAntilleskamui, remove your stuff from Extras-devel.05:15
ds3Oh... even WiFi would not go too well with that05:15
GeneralAntillesIndeed05:15
GeneralAntillesToo bad we don't have USB host05:15
GeneralAntillesOh, wait. ;)05:15
ds3looking at the junk pile... a PXA270 might be a reasonable compromise05:15
ds3ouch, maybe not from a $$ prospective05:16
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bugzyquit05:30
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ptlno quit05:31
ptlI am staying!05:31
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kamuiGeneralAntilles, im trying something drastic05:35
kamuiremoving nokia maps :)05:35
kamuiits not like ovi maps is useful anyway05:35
kamuijust eating up a lot of a space it seems on /usr/share05:35
kamuididn't look deep to make sure most of its not already relinked05:35
kamuicause that would just stink like a silent dog fart05:35
ptlwhat would you use instead of ovi maps?05:37
SpeedEvilhttp://xkcd.com/407/05:38
kamuiright now, probably just navit05:38
kamuithough Im reallynot using the N900 for navigation at all05:38
SpeedEvilI coded that using espeak - though I mislaid it when flashing05:39
kamuiespeak rocks05:39
g0tchanavit is free? hehe05:39
kamuiwell, if its not, that would be news to me05:39
ptlyes05:39
ptlit is05:39
kamuigetting your maps isn't really all that fun05:39
kamuibut once thats done it works pretty well05:40
g0tchareally? can navigate for free using navit?05:40
ptlwhat did you code using espeak, SpeedEvil?05:40
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kamuiI really hope that somewhere in this merge of moblin and maemo they do something about ovi craps05:40
SpeedEvilptl: the xkcd gps05:41
ali1234http://blog.xkcd.com/2008/05/20/gps-cyborg-implant/05:42
kamuianyone see any reason I can't or shouldn't use dist-upgrade to install the new firmware?05:42
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ali1234kamui: i tried it once. didn't end well05:43
GeneralAntilleskamui, depends on if anything is being removed.05:44
GeneralAntilleskamui, it's also a good idea to symlink the apt cache to someplace with some space.05:44
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kamuiGeneralAntilles, thats usually my first article of business05:45
kamuiGeneralAntilles, the first reboot after the distupgrade resulted in a never before seen white nokia screen with blue status bar, and a reboot05:45
kamuilooks like it booted up fine into my desktop05:45
andrewfblackhello05:45
kamuikeeping fingers crossed that I dont have to reflash05:45
pupnik_here's an idea.  an os that can rollback after an update and failed reboot.05:47
pupnik_hurrr durrr05:47
ptlyour question could be put that way: what application manager does that differ from apt-get?05:47
GeneralAntillespupnik_, doable.05:47
GeneralAntillespupnik_, but doing the backup would be rather time consuming05:47
ptlpupnik_: I've tried to advance rollbacks on the debian lists for many years now. Even rpm had this feature for a few minor releases, then they pulled it back05:48
GeneralAntillesptl, a few.05:48
kamuiepic failure05:49
ptlit's 'doable', in the way that it can be somewhat easily be put to work, but to harden and foolproof this is really difficult05:49
kamuiI still show my version as 2.2009.51.1 00205:49
kamui:(05:49
ptllemme check my version05:49
GeneralAntilleskamui, check the version on apt.05:49
ptlI upgraded via the app manager05:49
GeneralAntilleskamui, sometimes that field doesn't update properly.05:49
pupnik_ptl, i wasn't seriously suggesting it was an original idea :)  can you point to any googleable stuff on implementation?05:49
kamuiapt 0.7.20.2maemo13 for armel compiled on Jan 13 2010 16:46:0505:50
* andrewfblack wonders if nokia will keep maemo.org for n8x0 users?05:50
ptlversion: 3.2010.02-8.00205:50
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kamuiGeneralAntilles, what version do you have?  I saw apt get upgraded in the dist upgrade05:50
kamuiso I wonder if everything is mostyl fine05:50
kamuithis is going to bug me though :)05:50
ptlpupnik_: http://lists.rpm.org/pipermail/rpm-list/2009-April/000226.html http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/703405:51
andrewfblackhey GeneralAntilles guess this is end of our nokia sponsored community outreach we had been working on>05:52
GeneralAntilleskamui, http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/maemo5.0_update3_vs_maemo5.0_update4_content_changes.html05:52
GeneralAntillesThat took forever to find05:52
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, why?05:52
GeneralAntilleskamui, I don't think Nokia has any plans to change the budget.05:52
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andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: just figured don't know though05:53
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GeneralAntillesEr, s/kamui/andrewfblack/05:53
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, qgil seems to say not.05:53
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, I guess we'll just have to change out branding.05:53
ptlpupnik_: If the change to rpm really sticks on meego, maybe we can re-use the rollback feature05:54
GeneralAntilless/out/our05:54
crashanddie_anyone using twitter here?05:54
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pupnik_that might be a nice help.05:54
crashanddie_or more specifically: anyone know the twitter API?05:54
andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: I didn't know if qgil had said anything about the community outreach group after meego announcement05:54
andrewfblackcrashanddie_: I use twitter but thats it lol05:55
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crashanddie_ok, just explain some lingo05:55
pupnik_now how about something more radical.  a parallel flash that can track changes to filesystem and rollback when the device fails to boot at all05:55
crashanddie_what is a "direct message"05:55
ptlis there a new maemo 5 sdk?05:55
ptlcrashanddie_: D user message on twitter.05:55
crashanddie_andrewfblack: are those the ones that start with @user bla bla bla?05:55
ptlit's like a pvt on IRC05:55
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, budget shouldn't be changing.05:55
ptlonly the user gets that05:55
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, so seems like the outreach is still viable.05:55
crashanddie_ptl: ok, how do I get messages that have been sent to me?05:56
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andrewfblackcrashanddie_: I think so05:56
andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: ok05:56
pupnik_i think 'rollback' might have helped me on one or two maemo packages in the past 3 years05:57
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, I'm not sure if I want to do it anymore if I'm going to be running a MeeGo table, though. <_<05:57
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pupnik_but screwing up the device to non-bootable has happened a lot more05:57
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andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: Your not getting out of community spirit are you?05:57
pupnik_GeneralAntilles IS the community spirit05:58
pupnik_:P05:58
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, no, I'd just be embarrassed to sit behind a "MeeGo" table all day. :P05:58
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pupnik_to some uncertain degree of precision05:58
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andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: lol05:59
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ptlcrashanddie_: there's a long time I don't access twitter, but I think there's a side panel where you can read private messages06:02
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andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: even for a fine meal like you had last time?06:02
crashanddie_ptl: I'm not on the website, just using the API06:02
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, mmm . . . ham on white06:03
andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: it was free lol06:03
sheepbathmm.. the N900 won't charge with just half an amp, will it06:03
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andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: I found out SELF is going to be 3 days this year06:05
GeneralAntillesYerg06:05
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Wild_Doogysheepbat: Via usb you mean? it does for me, unless I am really using it06:05
Wild_DoogyLOL06:05
sheepbatyeah, via USB06:06
Wild_Doogymy N900's notification light JUST TURNED GREEN06:06
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Wild_Doogylike as I was typing!!!!06:06
sheepbathahaha06:06
Wild_Doogyyeah06:06
sheepbator..06:06
sheepbat<grumble>06:06
Wild_DoogyIronic much?06:06
sheepbatyes06:06
sheepbatthat was perfect06:06
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Wild_Doogysheepbat: do you have batery-eye?06:09
Wild_Doogybattery-eye06:09
sheepbatyeah06:09
sheepbathrm06:09
sheepbatI seem to have.. done something to it06:09
Wild_Doogyreally?06:10
* andrewfblack wonders if I should keep working on themes or wait to see what Meego UI will be06:10
sheepbatoverall, not just battery-eye...06:10
sheepbatthe launcher isn't working06:10
sheepbatI just installed the latest flasher kernel06:10
sheepbateverything else works though06:10
Wild_DoogyI have battery info im my conky now, after some scripting06:10
Wild_DoogyI cant get the latest Maemo update, as I have no SIM card06:11
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kejen_you can borrow mine06:11
kejen_:)06:11
kejen_just buy a $10 prepay one or something06:11
Wild_DoogyFax it to me  :-D06:11
kamuiwow06:11
Wild_Doogylol06:12
kamuistellarium seems to work06:12
kamuia little slow06:12
Wild_Doogyyeah, I am going to06:12
kamuibut still06:12
kamuiworking!06:12
Wild_Doogysome time...06:12
Wild_DoogyI wonder if I can compile Blender to work on my N90006:12
kamuialready done Wild_Doogy06:12
kamuiI have a optimized build06:12
kamuistill not really useable06:12
Wild_Doogyand Ironic, again, my latest Blender SVN just finished (2 minutes ago)06:13
kamuiim writing a opengl to gles wrapper to further the project06:13
Wild_Doogyreally?06:13
kamuiblender 2.5alpha06:13
kamuilook at my youtube video06:13
sheepbatwould you happen to know the command that launches the app manager?06:13
kamuishould give you a good feel for performance06:13
sheepbator the package name of the kernel?06:13
sheepbatoh, I think I found it06:13
Wild_Doogythanks06:13
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kamuiI have the proejcrt on garage06:14
kamuias soon as I get a chance to package up the binaries, Ill put the current working build up06:14
kamuilag time is about 1.5 - 2 seconds due to the overhead of full software opengl rendering06:15
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Wild_Doogywell, remember, its running on a phone  >_>06:17
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Wild_Doogyoh, it is unfair to cal lthe N900 a phone, but still06:17
sheepbatultraphone?06:19
itdocksits a phone sized computer with a phone app06:19
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sheepbatand a GSM modem06:20
Wild_Doogyyeah06:20
sheepbatit's a MID with phone-like attributes06:20
Wild_Doogyand GPS, and an accelerometer06:20
sheepbatlike how I'm a bat with sheep-like attributes06:20
kamuiWild_Doogy, this isn't new territory06:20
kamuiI only did it because pocketblender on the windows mobile platofrm works very very well06:20
kamuiand the author wrote a small opengl-gles wrapper software only that substantially improved its responsiveness06:21
Wild_DoogyI am just still amazed at how amazing my N900 is.06:22
ptlI just installed navit on n90006:22
ptlI can't operate it06:22
kamuiyea, N900 is so awesome06:22
ptldoes anyone have any experience with it?06:22
kamuipray for meego06:22
kamuipray for it not to destroy the N900's future06:22
Wild_Doogythe only trouble, and I am sure you all agree is the battery capacity.06:23
ptlpraying does not help06:23
itdocksi have 4 batteries06:23
itdockshaha06:23
Wild_Doogyyeah, thats my plan too06:23
ptltry bitching on the forums06:23
ptlbut it alliviates the frustration06:23
sheepbatand the tiny NAND flash06:23
ptlit also does not help06:23
ptl*alleviates06:23
Wild_DoogyI havent worked it hard enough to need more NAND, but the day is coming06:23
itdocksroot fs is somewhat small06:24
itdocks256 megs06:24
Wild_Doogyitdocks: how do you charge the 3 that are not in the phone?06:24
itdocksaccessory charger06:24
itdocksfind 'em on ebay hehe06:24
ptlwhat's a "NAND" flash? is it the RAM of the device?06:25
Wild_DoogyI was just going to do some fancy wiring  >_> (after research of course, not silly enough to just cross the leads on a lithium ion battery.)06:25
itdocksgood way to set things on fire06:25
itdocks:P06:25
GeneralAntillesptl, rootfs.06:26
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Wild_Doogy3000 degrees. yes06:26
ptlGeneralAntilles: oh. ok06:26
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Wild_Doogydoes anyone know how to get conky 1.7.2 on my N900?06:28
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Wild_DoogyGet the arm dev, and hunt the needed packeges?06:30
itdocksWild_Doogy: http://cgi.ebay.com/Wall-Charger-For-Nokia-Nokia-5800-5800XM-BL-5J-Battery_W0QQitemZ320483261019QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item4a9e4a7a5b06:31
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itdocksi have 2 of 'em they work great06:31
itdockswon't charge fully charged batteries either, so it's safe06:31
Wild_Doogysweet, thanks06:31
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Wild_Doogy6 bucks freeshipping?06:31
Wild_Doogynice!06:31
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pupnik_that is cheap06:38
itdocksyeah well worth it06:39
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crashanddie_lol...06:43
crashanddie_I just gave iTunes a big folder with songs to import from the N90006:44
crashanddie_within 20 seconds it found "desktop.ini" and died06:44
itdocksheh06:44
Wild_Doogyhahaha06:46
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Wild_Doogynow a linux program would output to the terminal something like "unknown file "desktop.ini" error 3 unknown format. .........Skipped"06:47
Wild_Doogyand be fine........06:47
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crashanddie_Wild_Doogy: no, it wouldn't you idiot06:48
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* GeneralAntilles hands crashanddie_ some chocolate.06:49
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: thanks06:49
Wild_DoogyAnd why not? :-) thats a perfectly plausible error output06:49
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crashanddie_Wild_Doogy: don't think that Linux applications are more stable because they run on LInux06:50
ali1234that's pretty much what my rhythmbox does06:50
ali1234if you import an unknown filetype it bugs you about it every time you load up rhythmbox. "do you want to try to download a codec to play foo.jpg?"06:50
jXanyone gotten fMMS to receive MMSs on AT&T?06:50
GeneralAntillesjX, yes.06:50
crashanddie_Wild_Doogy: an app is only as good as the coder who writes it -- and sadly, the quality standard that Linux is used to is a far cry from polished apps that come with a commercial OS06:50
Wild_Doogyagreed, but that want my point. Linux apps are (IMHO) more adaptable, and less apt to crash06:51
jXGen: Great, tips on settings? I can't get it to work, and someone just sent me an MMS. :)06:51
crashanddie_Wild_Doogy: I remember the day that Gimp crashed when you tried to open .RAW -- it knew it was an image, so tried to open it with whatever codec was available, which didn't go far06:51
GeneralAntillesjX, connected to data?06:51
crashanddie_Wild_Doogy: then your opinion is biased and childish06:51
Wild_Doogywell I actualy havent used gimp in a while, but point taken06:52
jXgen: Are you asking if I am on wifi or have a usable data connection via edge? Then yes06:52
jX(both, on wifi at home, have data too)06:52
GeneralAntillesGotta be connected to EDGE06:52
jXahh06:52
jXlemme turn off the wifi06:52
crashanddie_Wild_Doogy: granted, it was ten years ago -- and I'm pretty sure the iTunes crash was caused by other things as well. That being said, I just found it funny that it crashed, I wasn't intending on beginning any kind of bashing06:52
Wild_DoogyI should have said, "in my experience" but yes, my opinion is not that weighted.06:53
jXgen: And how should the number be formatted, +1ACNUM, 1ACNUM or jsut ACNUM?06:53
pwnguinooh wesnoth06:53
GeneralAntilles+106:53
jXfailed. :(06:54
pwnguin.....228MB =(06:54
GeneralAntillesjX, maybe check your settings against those in the wiki.06:54
jXwhat am I doing wrong... yeah, lemme look at that again.06:55
jXthe only options I see I can set are the MMSC, resize image, and my phone number. my APN choices are only AT&T Internet or T Mobile Internet06:55
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jXI assume teh APN is right since I can get connectivity with other apps06:56
Wild_Doogycrash: I found it funny as well, and I having a debate is fine, as long as it is done with the brain.  :-)06:56
GeneralAntillesjX, check the APN settings.06:56
jXI haven't a clue where to find those in Maemo 5.06:56
jXahh06:56
jXAHA!06:57
jXi BET THIS IS IT06:57
Wild_Doogyabout the question I had earlier, does anyone know how to get the newest conky on the N900?06:57
jXsry caps06:57
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ali1234jX: do you have MMS enabled with your provider? it has to be enabled separately from IP, at least in the UK07:00
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jX_[00:00] <jX> hmm, is there a way to create a new GPRS connection?07:01
jX_[00:00] <jX> I can only seem to create new wifi connections07:01
GeneralAntillesfAPN07:01
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jX_pardon?07:01
GeneralAntillesThe application07:01
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jXoh07:01
jXok07:01
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jXlemme grab that07:01
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|Rwhat's up with "Raw bird power" being on the ovi store? (I can't see it :P)07:02
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jXhrm07:07
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|Rhttp://twitter.com/WeAreMaemo/status/7752738918 <- ??07:11
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jXjeezalou...07:13
jXGAH. What the hell am I doing wrong?07:15
GeneralAntillesWhy is it that Ovi reviews are NEVER in English?07:15
jXomg it works07:16
jXGeneralAntilles++07:16
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Wild_DoogyHey chaps, here is a great project / app that I am working on: I help manage a church tower clock. As it is winter here in Vermont, the clock has been running inaccurately as the pendulum changes length. Using the Mic on my N900 I am able to messure the period by recording the clicking of the main escapement.07:20
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jebbaheh. cool.07:22
Wild_Doogyyeah, the mic's resolution isn't that great, if its off by one sample, then thats 27 seconds in a week07:24
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Wild_Doogybut..... if you do 10 clicks then you have 2.7, and then average it out.....07:25
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pwnguinyou know, these phones also have the internet and nts07:30
Wild_Doogynts?07:31
pwnguinhmm07:31
pwnguinntp07:31
pwnguinnetwork time protocol07:31
Wild_Doogyyes, mine seems to update its time07:32
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pwnguinthe cell provider also provides time07:32
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Wild_Doogyand GPS provides time07:33
Wild_Doogyso yeah, covered in all respects07:33
pwnguinseems a hell of a lot easier than measuring pendulm swings07:33
Wild_Doogythe trouble with the clock isnt setting the time, thats easy, its ajustingthe speed07:34
jebbahttp://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Technology/pdf/Nokia_software_strategy_white_paper.pdf07:34
Wild_Doogywhich wanders nastily lol07:34
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Wild_DoogySomeone posted a link to a n900 battery charger.08:14
Wild_DoogyHere is a link to a charger + battery for $10 with free shipping. though you guys might like it08:14
Wild_Doogyhttp://cgi.ebay.com/Charger-BL-5J-Battery-Screen-Protector-For-Nokia-N900_W0QQitemZ280466191775QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item414d16759f08:14
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GeneralAntillesI love how they reused the Maemo architecture diagram put subbed in MeeGo.08:19
GeneralAntillesUgh08:19
GeneralAntillesMeeGo08:19
* GeneralAntilles cries.08:19
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RST38hYea, that was cute08:20
RST38hBut the presentation in general is nothing new, unfortunately08:20
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GeneralAntillesIt's so depressingly stupid08:24
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rmtAny idea on the status of the post-n900 ?08:31
slonopotamusone new device, running only one maemo version :)08:31
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slonopotamusokay, maybe two devices.08:32
rmtMaybe only a minor update .. improved battery life a feature?08:32
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: ping08:38
GeneralAntillespong08:38
crashanddie_I think I've found the anthem for MeeGo08:38
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tybollto_O08:38
crashanddie_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZWAoXy-C408:39
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, nah, that's Frontier Psychiatrist.08:41
slonopotamuserr... fremantle update?08:43
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, small one.08:44
GeneralAntillesPR1.1.108:44
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, see the end of the topic.08:44
slonopotamusoh, right08:45
tybolltsince konttori said 1.2 is soon due, I'm guesing this is yet another "stepping stone"?08:45
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slonopotamus'    *  Disables apt-get from installing ovi store content '08:46
slonopotamuserr... wut?08:46
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GeneralAntillesHaha, is that how they did it?08:49
GeneralAntillesAwesome.08:49
GeneralAntillesFail.08:49
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GeneralAntillesSo, um, who's going to package up a PR1.1 apt? :D08:50
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villagerthey really should think about doing some access control on the server side...08:54
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mashiaraI guess a simple stopgap is enough for now, but I still wonder what in their server end is so messed up that they could not solve this properly08:58
mashiaraof course Ovi is a completely different unit and all which makes things complicated...08:58
mashiaras/unit/business unit/08:58
infobotmashiara meant: of course Ovi is a completely different business unit and all which makes things complicated...08:58
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slonopotamusargh! why? why delete button is disabled when you open email from yellow popup???09:01
mashiaraCould someone else verify that the latest kernel source package cannot build usable debs and then perhaps file a bug09:02
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tybolltslonopotamus: In soviet (finland?) russia - mail delete you!09:02
mashiaraI mean as-is, I spent the last evening and this morning patching the rules and control for http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/09:02
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mashiaraand I had to do a lot more patching than for PR1.109:03
mashiaraand it looks like the stock rules/control yield basically useless debs (modules not stripped so they 50MB space etc...)09:03
torindelfail @ Maemo update, what nokia pc software, unless they did linux version which i doubt -__-09:03
mashiarathere is a CLI flasher that works in linux and OSX09:04
torindelmashiara: so only whole device reflash will work?09:04
mashiara(except my OSX where there is a weird conflict somewhere, but I have weird stuff installed)09:04
torindelno update from running phone like before? -__-09:05
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villageryou can update from phone if you have the free space09:05
slonopotamustorindel, just updated without problems.09:05
villagerand haven't installed too much crap that conflicts with builtin software I guess09:05
mashiaratorindel: I'm confused now, AFAIK the nokia windows updater is flasher too09:06
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mashiaratorindel: updating in-device works unless something prevents it from working (like weird devel packages or too full rootfs), as said above09:06
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kejen_has anyone ran into issues from enabling/disabling testing/devel. For example. Enable testing and it installs a package and some libs. Then disable it. Now install something and it was compiled against a lib in normal, but i have the lib from testing09:15
kejen_not sure how to explain it09:15
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kejen_i guess it wouldnt matter unless it was core stuff09:16
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slonopotamusbug #9095. vote!09:19
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9095 Delete button disabled when email is opened from yellow notification09:19
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Xisdibikslonopotamus: you delete email? 0.o09:35
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JaffaMorning, all09:36
Xisdibikmorning Jaffa09:36
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Jaffakonttori_work: ping (questions about menu structure in PR 1.2)09:44
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konttori_workJaffa, pong09:50
* Stskeeps tries to catch up with talk.maemo.org09:51
tybolltI don't go there much but I guess trolls are having a field day what w/ the meeto and all that?09:52
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Stskeepsi like to compare it to screaming people inside a burning house09:52
tybollt:-D09:52
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adeussome people can actually use forums like irc09:55
adeustalk for pages and pages about nothing09:55
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thresh*some*??09:58
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crashanddie_!thresh++10:02
crashanddie_FAILBUS TICKET, wooooooooo10:02
crashanddie_~thresh++10:02
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thresh:o10:02
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Stskeepsmashiara: what new kernel version?10:07
mashiara20100303+0m510:07
Stskeepsi don't see it.10:07
Stskeepsin http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/10:07
Stskeepsunless you mean a internal release10:08
mashiarahmmm, I wonder if I'm getting this from some -devel repo...10:08
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Stskeepsyeah, extras-devel10:09
Jaffakonttori_work: someone's suggested Catorise will have "serious issues", wondering if /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu isn't the root anymore10:09
mashiarait indeed looked mighty half-baked10:09
jacekowskigood morning10:09
Stskeepsmashiara: could you report this issue to extras-devel for me?10:09
Stskeepsthere isn't supposed to be a 'kernel' source package in extras-devel10:09
Stskeepserr, to maemo-developers/community10:10
mashiarasure10:12
* mashiara bangs head to the wall10:12
mashiaraI spent *a lot* of time fixing a non-issue10:12
mashiarajust because someone from collabora did not think things through10:12
Stskeepsmashiara: pitchforks and molotov cocktails time, obviously10:13
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nid0so, this is probably going to make me sound monumentally dumb but I have a query10:16
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nid0when I got up this morning and touched my phone's screen it was displaying a more "traditional" touchscreen's "swipe across here to unlock" thing that i've never seen before, any idea how to intentionally use that rather than locking it via deactivating the screen entirely as normal on the switch?10:17
threshtouch the power button10:17
threshselect lock screen and keys10:17
threshtouch the power button again10:18
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nid0oh cunning, can lock it using either method but the power button to wake it instead of the lock switch displays the screen10:18
nid0neat, ta10:18
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xtnid0: you can press power button twice to make locking faster10:19
* tybollt is dissapointed in Stskeeps - you forgot tar and feathers ;P10:20
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nid0yeah ta I knew that one, will probably stick to the slider switch to lock it, but getting the screen display with the clock without unlocking it entirely is handy, I never knew that was there till accidentally seeing it this morning10:20
threshxt: woah, i never knew that10:20
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mashiarastskeeps: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-February/003940.html10:26
Stskeepsthanks10:26
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meceis Qt 4.6 for fremantle final?10:31
timeless_mbpoh wow10:31
timeless_mbpcalendar will suck a lot less10:31
* timeless_mbp hearts 1.210:31
mecetimeless_mbp, oh.. OH! When will I have it?10:32
timeless_mbpmece: i don't read tea leaves10:32
timeless_mbpyou're welcome to try10:32
* tybollt ! <3 the silly dialogs in HAM10:32
Corsacbefore hell freezes10:32
tybollt"yeah, right" wtf is that? :-S10:32
Corsac(hopefully)10:32
timeless_mbptybollt: did you see my pictures of ham?10:32
tybollttimeless_mbp: Where do I look?10:32
CorsacI love ham for breakfast10:32
tybolltmmmmh ham *drools*10:32
mecetimeless_mbp, I prefer salami.10:32
meceerr sorry wrong person10:32
timeless_mbpham isn't kosher10:33
mecetimeless_mbp, how does calendar suck less in 1.2 then?10:33
timeless_mbpmece: i couldn't say10:33
mecetimeless_mbp, but it does?10:33
timeless_mbphypothetically10:33
mece:)10:33
timeless_mbpactually, not the calendar10:34
timeless_mbpcalendaring10:34
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mecei see.10:34
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tybollttimeless_mbp++10:36
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iamrandomI love you ?DCC SEND STARTKEYLOGGER'10:44
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RST38hmoo wazd10:52
wazdRST38h: heya10:52
wazdhello everyone10:52
tybollthello Dr Nick!10:52
tybolltehr wazd10:53
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Stskeepsjebba: ping10:55
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Antti_AlienStskeeps: tekojo told to ask you :-]11:01
StskeepsAntti_Alien: about? :)11:01
Antti_Alienhi, i'm trying to create a customized rootfs image to set up a large number of devices11:01
Stskeepsah, just my alley :)11:01
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Antti_Alienbut, i need them to be uninstallable11:02
StskeepsAntti_Alien: by devices you mean n900?11:02
Antti_Alienyeah11:02
Stskeepsk, should we take this in private message?11:02
Antti_Alienokay11:02
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Flyseris there a rss feed available of the extras-testing repository? I monitor added applications11:09
X-FadeFlyser: No, not atm. On my todo list.11:10
Flyserokay.11:10
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DocScrutinizershit >:-( Not enough free storage for PR1.1.111:16
tybollt-> disable repo -> install -> enable repo11:16
tybolltno big deal mate11:16
DocScrutinizeruhu. Also when I completely cleaned /var/cache/apt?11:17
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rom1depFlyser: there is a program.. appwatch11:20
DocScrutinizertybollt: which repos to disable?11:21
rom1depDocScrutinizer: no worry, just free rootfs by moving things to /home + symlink11:22
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DocScrutinizerwhat o move?11:22
DocScrutinizer/var/lib?11:23
DocScrutinizer/usr?11:23
rom1dephttp://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space11:23
* DocScrutinizer mumbles swearwords11:24
DocScrutinizer~optification11:24
infobothmm... optification is a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR11:24
tigertman11:27
tigertflipclock has some weirdest ui11:27
tigertplus it is so slow I dont know how it works :D11:27
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thorbjornI want to see that video again from dui framework announcement, but it's no longer to be found anywhere? :(11:34
Stskeepsyeah, i was wondering why that got pulled as well11:34
alteregoOff of youtube?11:35
thorbjornYes.11:37
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alteregoCurious, google consipiracy? ^.^11:37
thorbjornSee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Jk0FETBB4 :)11:37
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tybolltdui framework?11:37
alteregoRemoved by user aye ,,, Interesting ...11:38
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thorbjornEven the blog post referring to it was removed (http://karoliinamaemoblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/maemo-6-ui-framework-open-sourcing.html)11:38
alteregoWeird ..11:38
alteregoI bet they got told off ...11:38
thorbjornGuess so.11:39
alteregoWhich is odd, because I thought they got asked to do it? That's at least the impression I got from something he said in the video.11:39
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rom1depIt remains Widget Gallery11:41
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Laiskauuu,an update for maemo 511:45
rom1depdamn that's heavy :(11:45
tybolltheavy?11:46
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rom1depthe widget gallery app is slow...11:46
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TomaszDbattle of wesnoth takes ages to initialize11:50
TomaszDI'm not sure if this is compiled properly11:50
timeless_mbpTomaszD: s/initialize/start/11:50
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timeless_mbpone doesn't use "initialize" in common speech11:50
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timeless_mbpgenerally anywhere that Nokia uses it in the n900 ui is a bug11:51
* timeless_mbp has eradicated most instances11:51
TomaszD:)11:51
TomaszDwesnoth now says "initializing screen"11:51
timeless_mbpright, that's a bug11:51
timeless_mbpusing big words is generally wrong11:52
TomaszDI think that's debatable, I encourage you to file a bug with wesnoth though11:52
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timeless_mbpkonttori_work: speaking of linguistics, did you file a bug about the untranslated string? :)11:52
timeless_mbpTomaszD: give me a picture and steps to reproduce and i'll file it :)11:53
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TomaszDtimeless_mbp, http://imgur.com/RrHs2.png12:00
TomaszDit's in Polish though12:00
TomaszDbut I don't believe the original translation is "starting"12:00
TomaszD:)12:00
timeless_mbpTomaszD: heh12:01
timeless_mbpyeah, somehow i doubt it12:01
tybolltugh12:01
timeless_mbplocalizers don't tend to be particularly creative12:01
tybolltwhy does symbian^3 release look like a description of Hildon? :S12:01
bilboed-piwhat ?12:01
tybollt"The Homescreen takes a big step forward with support for multiple pages of widgets and a simple flick gesture to move between them. The widget manager makes discovery and download of new widgets simple and support for multiple instances of a native widget means that consumers can monitor multiple weather forecasts, news feeds, social networking accounts or multiple email accounts simultaneously through a common interface."12:01
TomaszDtimeless_mbp, the Polish l10n of wesnoth is actually very good, can't blame them for sticking with the original12:02
TomaszDit's a matter of not having some guidelines estabilished, which we (GNOME) already have12:02
TomaszDtybollt, so hildon is a poor cousin, we don't have a widget manager with downloading capabilities12:03
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timeless_mbptybollt: oh the directions Symbian and Maemo are moving in are really amusing12:04
TomaszDtimeless_mbp, come on, share your opinion, I'm curious12:04
TomaszD:)12:04
timeless_mbpthey're trying very hard to trade places :)12:05
timeless_mbpthe grass is greener on the other side :)12:05
TriztFromWorkis it just me or after yesterdays update I don't seem to be able to change volume with the zoom-button12:05
TomaszDTriztFromWork, just you probably, in what circumstances though?12:05
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TriztFromWorkTomaszD; when on a virtual desktop, no active programs, in the media player listening to music12:06
TomaszDtimeless_mbp, Symbian^3 is open source and I'd hazard a guess that it's more mature than Maemo :) Why do they stick with efforts on both12:06
TomaszDTriztFromWork, so it doesn't work anywhere?12:07
timeless_mbpTomaszD: that's like asking a person "why do you breathe, there's another person over there who's older and breathes better"12:07
rom1depTriztFromWork: works here12:07
TomaszDoh timeless_mbp and his misjudged similies, breathing is essential for life, can't be compared with OS platforms12:08
TriztFromWorkTomaszD;  I need each time to get the system menu and use the volume control there to set the volume12:08
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timeless_mbpTomaszD: you think os platforms aren't made by organizations?12:08
timeless_mbpshould organizations not breathe?12:08
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timeless_mbpTriztFromWork: does this happen in Notes?12:09
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TomaszDtimeless_mbp, should they not be re-structured, re-organized to get behind one common platform instead of doing it like everyone is for themselves?12:09
TriztFromWorktimeless_mbp; one moment12:09
nid0so which do you suggest they abandon?12:10
timeless_mbpTomaszD: if 90% of the people are working on stuff which has competing engineers12:10
timeless_mbpand competing managers12:10
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TomaszDI have no idea, it's a very tough decision12:10
timeless_mbpthen restructuring is roughly equivalent to deleting 95% of the people12:10
TriztFromWorktimeless_mbp, TomaszD, rom1dep; seems I needed yeat another reboot12:10
timeless_mbpasking an entity why it bothers breathing isn't likely to result in happiness12:11
TomaszDso it's about the people, not about the end goal of... profit12:11
TomaszDI know, no-one ever said it would be easy12:11
timeless_mbpum12:11
TomaszDit would make sense though, disregarding feelings of people for a moment12:11
timeless_mbpthe goal of the organization is for its people to profit12:11
ShadowJKthe 4 platforms are for different hw anyway, at some point it stops making sense trying to make one thing scalable across entire range :/12:12
timeless_mbpthat it happens to conflict with some other organization with a similar goal elsewhere w/in the larger organization12:12
timeless_mbpwell, that happens12:12
TriztFromWorktimeless_mbp; people to profit or stock woner profit?12:12
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timeless_mbpTriztFromWork: people are selfish12:12
timeless_mbpespecially here12:12
nid0why would it make sense? notwithstanding the fact that symbian and maemo/meego are for different devices, why should/would nokia restrict themselves by just abandoning one?12:12
timeless_mbpnid0: they both make software12:13
timeless_mbpobviously they're the same12:13
TomaszDI know next to nothing about restructuring companies, but I'm sure most people could stay, once the company gets behind the turmoil, turns a bigger profit as a result of being more focused, then they could hire more people again12:13
ShadowJKthey're abandoning one?12:13
TriztFromWorktimeless_mbp; sure we are, but there are a few how work for a common goal instead of own economical profit12:13
timeless_mbpand obviously they could save money12:13
Ken-YoungI am trying to install the new Maemo 5 update on my N900. The Application Manager claims that 16 Mb free space is requited. By uninstalling *all* my downloaded Aps, I have freed 30 Mb in rootfs. But when I try to install the update, I get the message "Not enough space on trarget". Does anyone know why I can't update with 30 Mb free?12:13
timeless_mbpTriztFromWork: s/how/who/ ?12:13
TomaszDKen-Young, you need >42MB12:13
ShadowJKKen-Young: disable extras-devel and extras-testing12:13
ShadowJKreboot12:13
sp3000does that mean the string is bad?12:14
Ken-YoungThanks!   I'll try that.12:14
TriztFromWorktimeless_mbp; maybe just Stallman12:14
TriztFromWorktimeless_mbp; sorry, missed that you fixed my typo12:15
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Ken-YoungJust out of curiousity, whay does mearly having Extras-testing and Extras-Devel chew up megabytes of space on rootfs?12:15
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nid0the repo cache is stored there12:15
ShadowJKA local copy of the list of apps available is made. It's huge for extras-devel12:16
Ken-YoungAnd that takes *megabytes*?12:16
nid0yes, extras-devel is massive12:16
ShadowJK16 or so12:16
Ken-YoungGeez!12:16
* TriztFromWork sees he has to do something about that at next update12:16
timeless_mbpTriztFromWork: the next real update should probably fix some of this stuff12:17
timeless_mbpalthough i suspect it'll be *after* the update, instead of before12:17
TriztFromWorkI guess that will be the case :)12:17
timeless_mbpkonttori seemed to indicate that we're going to optify stuff12:17
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Ken-YoungIs it possible to set up some soft links, and "optify" the repo cache?12:18
ShadowJKtimeless: make the autobuilder optify by default I say12:18
timeless_mbpShadowJK: for the system packages?12:18
timeless_mbpthat would be interesting12:19
ShadowJKnah for extras-*12:19
timeless_mbpjust move X11 to /opt and /bin/mount to /opt12:19
timeless_mbpand watch the system not boot :)12:19
ShadowJKyes12:19
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TriztFromWorkjust a theoretical question, you would need custom kernel if you would make user "home" to be ext3 instead of vfat?12:20
ShadowJK/home is ext3 on n90012:20
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TriztFromWorkMyDocs12:21
TriztFromWorkthat one if vfat12:21
timeless_mbpTriztFromWork: it doesn't require a custom kernel12:22
timeless_mbpbut it will break apps12:22
timeless_mbpand there is no fix12:22
TriztFromWork:(12:22
timeless_mbpso you need a really good reason to break support for windows, osx, camera, and other random devices12:22
* TriztFromWork only uses Linux12:22
timeless_mbp=> has no friends12:22
TriztFromWorkthey have Linux12:23
tybollttimeless_mbp: the N presents MyDocs pretty much verbatim to the other end of the cable when connecting in "usb mass mode" right?12:23
timeless_mbptybollt: yep12:23
timeless_mbpit's a hard disk w/ raw file system access12:23
timeless_mbpyou can scribble dark secrets in unused sectors12:23
timeless_mbp(not a great idea, but hey!)12:23
jacekowskii was thinking about making some sort of vfat emulating driver12:23
jacekowskiso it would present vfat to a PC12:23
timeless_mbpjacekowski: you and what army?12:24
ShadowJKlol12:24
timeless_mbpjacekowski: we aren't opposed12:24
tybolltyeah12:24
jacekowskiwhile underlying fs would be still ext312:24
inzHas anyone noticed any extra crawler traffic on their maemo related sites lately?12:24
timeless_mbpand if your code is great, has no patent issues, is licensed properly and upstreamed, you can be sure we'll consider it12:24
ShadowJKHow about a small iso9660 partition with autorun.inf installing ext3 driver12:24
tybolltbut emulating VFAT like that will prove to be non trivial (at best)12:24
jacekowskiwe?12:24
timeless_mbpShadowJK: you want people to trust nokia to write or distribute a kernel driver for windows?12:25
tybolltNewkia12:25
jacekowskivfat has patent issues all over it12:25
timeless_mbpdo you know the horror stories about Apple's USB driver?12:25
timeless_mbpit causes blue screens12:25
inzMy server load has gone way up, and the only related thing I can think of is MeeGo announcement.12:25
timeless_mbphave you seen nokia's windows apps?12:25
tybollttimeless_mbp: Do enlighten me, please12:25
timeless_mbpthey're even worse than apple's windows apps (and that's impressive)12:25
ShadowJKpatent issues... does nokia lawyers have a list of patents they car about and which they dont... becayse everything is patented :\12:25
t-tanTriztFromWork: read the TMO threads on reparitiong and efficient flash usage12:25
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: patent numbers and descriptions are generally not shared12:26
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ShadowJKtimeless: the ext3 driver for windows already exists I think12:26
TriztFromWorkt-tan; TMO?12:26
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timeless_mbpknowing about patents is hazardous to your health and your employer's financial well-being12:26
t-tanTriztFromWork: TMO = talk.maemo.org12:26
timeless_mbpShadowJK: you would trust nokia to maintain updated versions of this driver?12:26
tybolltShadowJK: nokia are so big that they don't need to care about patents. They can afford to play the suit <-> counter suit game for years on end until the other party (if BIG MONEY) settles out of court or (if small money) budges...12:26
TriztFromWorkthe ext3 driver isn't part of microsoft, so it will never be installed by default12:26
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timeless_mbpfwiw12:27
timeless_mbpif you're going to waste your time thinking about a driver for windows12:27
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TriztFromWorkt-tan; ah, ok, I think I have those threads already bookmarked at home12:27
timeless_mbpthe one that makes sense is usb networking12:27
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timeless_mbpthen you can use samba w/ windows12:27
* ShadowJK wouldnt even install nokia pc/ovi suite on anything12:27
jacekowskibesides, why n900 is using crappy slow unreliable ext312:27
jacekowskiinstead of reiserf12:27
jacekowskis12:27
timeless_mbpoh, jacekowski 's a troll12:27
t-tanjacekowski: wrong. both a not flash optimized12:28
TriztFromWorkjfs had been cooler :P12:28
t-tans/a/are/12:28
infobott-tan meant: jarecekowski: wrong. both a not flash optimized12:28
ShadowJKjacekowski: it's the least bad for sd of the non-beta filesystems12:28
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tybollttimeless_mbp++12:28
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* timeless_mbp wonders if this is his troll army12:28
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timeless_mbpdo they code for you too, or just flood?12:29
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Corsacreiserfs leaves dead files in the forest12:29
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ShadowJKThe crash behaviour of harddrives and flash differ alot.12:29
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timeless_mbpCorsac: do they make a sound?12:29
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Corsactimeless_mbp: when they get beaten, maybe12:29
jacekowskit-tan: from my personal experience reiser seems to be better12:29
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Lumpio-reiserfs is the only filesystem I've had crash on me12:30
timeless_mbpLumpio-: crash ?= dataloss12:30
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timeless_mbpmy hdd is dying and i'm not losing data :)12:30
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ShadowJKiirc TomTom ran robustness tests by powercycling during writes to SD/MMC repeatedly, and vfat and ext3 were about the only ones that werent dead after the second cycle, let alone the 10th..12:30
Lumpio-timeless_mbp: Likely data loss.12:31
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t-tannilfs2 looks interesting and should be even safer. we have in the custom kernel12:31
jacekowskiLumpio-: reiserfs is only fs that never failed me12:31
Lumpio-There were a lot of files on that filesystem, and the... whatever tool recovered most of it in some 6 hours12:31
jacekowskiLumpio-: and it even survived disk failure in my home LVM12:31
Lumpio-However I did get some 60k files in lost+found.12:31
* TriztFromWork seconds jacekowski 12:31
jacekowskiLumpio-: where it left empty holes in file system12:31
Lumpio-eh?12:32
TriztFromWorkbut I do mostly use jfs as it goes to read only if it detects something wrong12:32
ShadowJKt-tan: Im running nilfs2 on my sheevaplug. It's fast, but I would not recommend it on n900.12:32
jacekowskiLumpio-: LVM is something like raid but not really12:32
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Lumpio-wtf does LVM have to do with this12:32
t-tanShadowJK: why not? does it crash often? bugs?12:33
jacekowskiLumpio-: that i has 2 disks in LVM12:33
jacekowskiLumpio-: and one failed12:33
Lumpio-aah12:33
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jacekowskiand except that data that was on failed HDD was lost12:33
Lumpio-I missed your line mentioning LVM12:33
jacekowskiFS as a whole survived12:33
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ShadowJKt-tan: it does *alot* of rearranging of data in the background. It averages about .5Meg/second to a 4g usb key. That's tens of gigabytes per day. It's probably not good for longevity.12:33
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ShadowJKbatterylife too :)12:33
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t-tanShadowJK: thanks. that's interesting12:36
* ShadowJK wonders if btrfs still has the "slow ssd" mode12:36
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jacekowskibut going back to FS on n90012:36
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jacekowskiwhy ext3 not ext2?12:36
t-tanShadowJK: so what are the alternatives: brts, logfs?12:36
ShadowJKor if they abandoned it when people realized you should only buy intel and indilinx based12:36
ShadowJKt-tan: pretty much12:37
jacekowskiwhat are chances of power loss in middle of write12:37
ShadowJKI think meego will use btrfs12:37
jacekowskion battery powered device12:37
ShadowJKjacekowski: that's where it often happens12:37
tigertever dropped your device?12:37
jacekowskiyes12:37
t-tanfor btrfs we need a > 2.6.32 kernel on the N90012:38
tigertit is @quick way to remove battery really fast12:38
* timeless_mbp rotfl12:38
Lynourejacekowski: use call recording, and on a mobile phone the change of power loss in middle of write gets quite large :)12:38
timeless_mbpjacekowski: your average user will probably trigger sudden power loss at least 10 times a year12:38
ShadowJKIf IO pressure becomes too high so the watchdog daemons dont run often enough, the hardware will brutally reset your device during peak I/O activity12:38
timeless_mbpnow, if you don't care about your data, that's fine12:38
tybollttigert: I found testing the "N900 fly" app is also good for quick battery removal12:38
timeless_mbpbut oddly, most people get very upset if an *important* piece of data is lost12:39
tigerttybollt: yeah12:39
timeless_mbptybollt: heh12:39
tigerthmm12:39
jacekowskiwell, i've been using ext2 for years12:39
jacekowskibefore people ever heard about ext312:39
tigerthow robust is n900fly? are my height records safe? ;)12:39
t-tanShadowJK: decompression of the easydeb image doesn't trigger a reboot12:39
Lynourejacekowski: that's usually the the order, yes :)12:39
timeless_mbpjacekowski: how is that relevant?12:39
Lynourejacekowski: ext2 then ext312:39
jacekowskithat it was reliable enough12:40
timeless_mbpwere you using it on a battery powered contraption?12:40
ShadowJKt-tan: it does not12:40
jacekowskimains powered12:40
timeless_mbpjacekowski: the stuff your smoking...12:40
timeless_mbpit isn't great stuff12:40
timeless_mbpi'd suggest you contact your dealer and ask for something else12:40
ShadowJKlol12:40
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LynoureI've had data loss on mains powered ext2, that sucked12:40
t-tanShadowJK: that's what I said. so when is I/O too high?12:40
Lynoureext3 is more <312:40
konttori_workJaffa, I missed your comment.12:41
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konttori_workI was in meeting. Could you repeat it?12:41
tigerttransmission does some crazy i/o too12:41
timeless_mbpLynoure: i had a laptop where i was running it w/o a battery12:41
timeless_mbpoccasionally i'd trip over the power cable12:41
Lynouretimeless_mbp: yes, done that too. :)12:41
jacekowskiyou could do it as they used to do it in IRIX12:41
timeless_mbpthe sad part was that i was using RDP for most stuff12:42
timeless_mbpexcept, the work i was doing was in notepad locally12:42
jacekowskimachines were able to trigger power loss interrupt12:42
timeless_mbp<oops>12:42
ShadowJKt-tan: performance degrades exponentially the less sequential it becomes. decompressing an image is a sequential read simultaneous with sequential write, plus some swapout activity. This is quite light for mmc12:42
jacekowskiand run for long enough from capacitors for writes to complete12:42
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yakovhey12:42
t-tanShadowJK: it spends most time for I/O, CPU load is < 50%12:43
timeless_mbpjacekowski: so...12:43
timeless_mbpplease stop dreaming12:43
jacekowskiyou only need couple seconds of working CPU and flash12:43
timeless_mbpyou're asserting well behaved programs12:43
timeless_mbpwhich have useful write patterns12:43
timeless_mbpthose programs don't exist12:44
jacekowskiit was working in IRIX12:44
timeless_mbpwell, we aren't12:44
ShadowJKsure, but it's probably doing over 6 megs/sec total, it's fast enough that paging activity doesn't get delayed too much12:44
timeless_mbpwe're working w/ linux programs12:44
yakovguys, which dsp does N900 have? TMS320C64+?12:44
TriztFromWorkdamn you write too much, I can't manage both work and read at the same time12:44
yakovI can't find it in omap spec12:45
t-tanShadowJK: we see the effect that the same decompression sometimes takes 8min, sometimes 1h12:45
timeless_mbpTriztFromWork: stop working ;-)12:45
threshyakov: wikipedia says so12:46
ShadowJKthe worst case performance is approximately 90kbyte/s12:46
tybollttimless + thresh last two sentences bundled makes a very fun quote ;)12:46
timeless_mbplol12:46
TriztFromWorktimeless_mbp; thats an option, just wonder how I'll get my bills disappear too12:46
slonopotamuscraaaap12:47
ShadowJK(90 for a class 6)12:47
slonopotamusit happened12:47
tybolltShadowJK: hmm you're _the_ sd/mmc guru?12:47
tybolltShadowJK: performance diff 6 <-> 10?12:47
slonopotamususb connector destroyed on my n900 :(12:47
TriztFromWorkt-tan; usually takes med 30-45 mins if I have 1G+ tar file12:47
tybolltShadowJK: Basically, is 10 worth the extra monneh?12:47
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slonopotamusanyone has a fix?12:48
Stskeepsslonopotamus: production n900?12:48
ShadowJKtybollt: horsepiss vs cowpiss, it's a difficult choice indeed ;)12:48
t-tanShadowJK: you mean, when changing only one bit per eraseblock?12:48
slonopotamusStskeeps, yep12:48
Stskeepsslonopotamus: class action suit?12:48
ShadowJKt-tan: when writing 4k blocks12:48
slonopotamusStskeeps, what?12:48
tybolltslonopotamus: warranty -> nokia repair shop -> meditate for two weeks -> wake up -> pick up phone at repair shop12:48
Stskeepstybollt: except that's not how it seems to go :P12:49
tybolltStskeeps: ??12:49
slonopotamusaargh12:49
t-tanTriztFromWork: the "easydeb benchmark": lzma decompression of 230MB to 2GB takes 8GB on the SD12:49
Stskeepstybollt: go read talk.maemo.org :P12:49
MiXu-how does it go then?12:49
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tybolltStskeeps: I rather not watch those loudmouth w/ fire in their hair ;)12:50
Stskeepshttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3710712:50
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TriztFromWorkt-tan; so 2GB takes 8GB of space? thats not good, too big bloxksizes?12:50
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t-tanTriztFromWork: oops, typo: 8mins12:50
TriztFromWorkokey, thats quite fast compared to what i get12:51
ShadowJKMiXu-: "hi my usb port broke" - "our engineers have dtermined you istreated the device, no warranty repair for you" - "but you didn't even look at it!" - "err, we used our.. xray machine... at the door.... go away"12:51
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MiXu-Nice :P12:51
t-tanTriztFromWork: that's on a class 6 card. the same for eMMC12:51
ShadowJKI think the decompression time to microsd on n900 would vary less from time to time than to emmc :P12:52
slonopotamusso, usb port lived 3 month for me12:52
slonopotamus*months12:52
TriztFromWorkt-tan; eMMC, was that where you have the OS or where you had ~/Mydocs ?12:52
t-tanTriztFromWork: I uncompressed on repartitioned ext3.12:53
TriztFromWorkI guess the later, as the / don't have 2GB space12:53
ShadowJKslonopotamus: do post the the tmo thread, production device lasted 3 months... and your experience with nokia care12:53
TriztFromWorkt-tan; thats nice, I have only done the untaring on vfat12:53
t-tanShadowJK: you mean due to simulanteous swap or home access?12:53
nid0lack of uk firmware update getting very old now :<12:53
ShadowJKI think texrat is trying to make Nokia stop acting like an Evil Empire on this issue, so reports will help12:54
t-tanTriztFromWork: I don't expect a big difference on vfat12:54
Ken-YoungTomaszD, ShadowJK Thanks for your help - I was able to update after following your tips.12:54
TriztFromWorkt-tan; and my phone has been really unresponsive when doing that, frist moving the file to the device and then unarchive, both took me 30-45 mins12:54
ShadowJKt-tan: swapout and on-demand paging of stuff in /opt, yeah12:54
t-tanTriztFromWork: yes, you shouldn't use your device during the process. run it via ssh12:54
ShadowJKEven downloading stuff with gpodder at 500k/sec gives noticeable extra latency :)12:55
* slonopotamus calls nokia care12:55
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TriztFromWorkt-tan: I wouldn't have to do the unarchinving if only "scp -r" had worked12:55
mecescp -r works fine.12:55
t-tanTriztFromWork: rsync12:55
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TriztFromWorkt-tan; scp far simpler and less options12:57
TriztFromWorkmece; which ssh package you installed?12:57
mecehmm12:57
meceTriztFromWork, you mean what version?12:57
TriztFromWorkmece; there are two different ssh packages in the repos12:58
meceTriztFromWork, I installed this in December. It's 51p1-6.maemo512:59
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mecethe openssh client and server metapackage12:59
TriztFromWorkmece; openSSH (this one I have installed) and Dropbear SSH12:59
TriztFromWorkmece; I have 5.1p1-6 too, but option -r never works for directories13:00
tybolltwhy dropbear ssh?13:00
tybolltreally why?13:00
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Jaffakonttori_work: someone's suggested Catorise will have "serious issues", wondering if /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu isn't the root anymore13:01
tybolltopenssh - drop everything else13:01
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TriztFromWorktybollt; don't ask me, I didn't approve it to be on the repo13:01
tybollt(mind the pun)13:01
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tybolltTriztFromWork: They can put pictures of busted baby seals on the repo - doesn't mean you have to download it... :)13:02
TriztFromWorktybollt; I wouldn't, thats why I installed openSSH13:02
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* slonopotamus tries to decide if he should remove private data before sending his n900 to repair13:05
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meceTrizrFromWork, well I have that version and -r works as it should. I'm not sure I've tried it every way, but I've done a scp -r /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds mece@myhost:/music/ and that worked13:05
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: it doesn't work anyway13:05
TriztFromWorkslonopotamus; if you don't then the next one getting your parts won't see your photos ;)13:06
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: so the questions are;13:06
timeless_mbp1. do you expect there to be a virus on the systems that touch your device13:06
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TriztFromWorkmece; the other way around?13:06
timeless_mbp2. do you trust nokia less today than you did when you bought your n90013:06
meceTriztFromWork, from server to n900, on the n900?13:07
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, i have some battery power yet :)13:07
slonopotamusactually just charged it and was pulling cable out13:07
* X-Fade wants a nice equalizer built in Maemo13:07
TriztFromWorkmece; from server to n90013:08
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, i didn't buy it, it was gifted to me13:08
slonopotamuscraaap :(13:09
meceTriztFromWork, I'm not sure if I've pulled. I can try it now..13:09
slonopotamusShadowJK, so, they all break that way?13:10
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TriztFromWorkmece; thanks13:11
meceTriztFromWork, works fine. I created /home/mece/testpull/asdf/ on my server and put some stuff there, then did, from n900, scp -r mece@<server>:/home/mece/testpull ./ and it downloaded the subtree as it should have.13:13
TriztFromWorkhmm strange that it don't work for me13:13
meceTriztFromWork, could it be your server that has some problems?13:13
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TriztFromWorkmece; works fine between laptop desktop, server desktop in all directions13:14
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meceTriztFromWork, you could perhaps try to remove all the ssh packages and install the openssh one again?13:15
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TriztFromWorkI could. but that has to wait until I'm back home as I don't have access to the workstation with my n900 as they are on different nets13:17
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konttori_workJaffa, you mean after the flattened launcher list is applied?13:24
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timeless_mbpkonttori_work: have you installed catorize?13:27
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Scelt_catorize and mymenu are both having something good but also something bad13:28
timeless_mbpScelt_: this is a different conversation13:28
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* R4lph is away : I'm working... [=P= LogON]13:29
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yakovhow does TI name C64+ silicon on OMAP? IVA? then what is ISP? is it possible to gain control of it?13:33
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slonopotamus-.-13:48
Arif.me yawns13:48
* Arif yawns13:48
Shapeshifterhow can I reload the icon cache or whatever is responsible for displaying icons on the desktop. Whenever I install a new app, the icon for the new app stays a blue square on the desktop and the app menu13:48
Shapeshiftera reboot fixes this.13:48
Arifreboot? :P13:49
MiXu-It's the same for me13:49
StskeepsShapeshifter: file a bug13:49
ArifI noticed it shows up after a while though13:49
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ShapeshifterStskeeps: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6931 I think this is pretty much the problem13:52
povbot`Bug 6931: After installation of software last icon in "More..." view has default icon instead of own one13:52
wazdI've located a karma whore! wee! :D13:53
RST38hwazd: kill it!@13:54
konttori_worktimeless, at least once, yes. But not after the flattening has been done13:54
Scelt_http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures#Xterm_Shortcuts - ctrl+arrows to jump the words would be great13:54
wazdRST38h: http://maemo.org/profile/view/torpedo48/13:54
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wazdbwahaha :)13:55
Stskeepswazd: who is that guy? :P13:55
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Shapeshifterhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7307 this is probably the same bug, simply after a restore13:55
povbot`Bug 7307: App shortcuts on desktop don't have icon after restoring applications & settings13:55
RST38hwazd: Welll...umgh... at least he is reporting bugs...13:55
wazdStskeeps: well, at least he commented ALL of the OMW iconsets with "Good job, it makes my desktop colorful" :D13:56
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Stskeeps2009-12-0113:56
wazdRST38h: he's an undercover :D13:56
Jaffakonttori_work: Correct.13:56
RST38hwazd: Yea, he commented my stuff too13:56
Shapeshifterand apparently there isn't even a font cache in pr 1.1.1 so I don't understand why there is this problem even.13:56
RST38hwazd: Something similar. Maybe he is running a script :)13:56
wazdRST38h: no script can trick me!13:57
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zChrisWill Maemo stop existing now and become MeeGo ?13:58
wazdanyway, karma system failed again, people with lots of apps have less karma than people with lots of comments :D13:58
Stskeepswazd: he'll be in for a shock when his karma doesn't qualify him for a meego device?13:58
Stskeeps:P13:58
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wazdStskeeps: well, he's a bug reporter, why not? :D13:59
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wazdStskeeps: makes more sense than giving anything to the lame designer wannabe :)13:59
crashanddie_zChris: there have been plenty of forum posts and blog posts14:00
crashanddie_zChris: please do make an effort by googling for at least half a minute14:00
wazdhttp://maemo.org/profile/view/rami/ this guy is funny too14:00
crashanddie_wazd: I think you're funnier14:00
wazd842 for brainstorm ideas? :D14:00
wazdcrashanddie_: I'm The Funniest One actually :)14:01
X-FadeThe new karma modifiers will be implemented this week.14:01
X-FadeThe ones that Valerio pushed/discussed.14:01
crashanddie_X-Fade: just in time to screw everyone before the elections, I'm loving it!14:01
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crashanddie_X-Fade: including the IRC ones?14:02
X-Fadecrashanddie_: Does not matter really.14:02
wazdX-Fade: haven't seen it, but since Valerio has made it - it should be great :)14:02
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X-FadeBut I'm all for giving do-ers more karma.14:02
X-FadeTalk is cheap :)14:03
niekt0I was just wonadering, what would be drawwback, if I remount mmc card to / after boot (so I can install any debian armel packeges without fulling root partition).14:03
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niekt0~wondering14:03
zChriscrashanddie_: The answer is yes :<14:03
X-Fadeniekt0: Why don't you just boot from mmc then?14:03
crashanddie_zChris: the answer is not immediately14:03
crashanddie_zChris: you don't want maemo on a netbook?14:03
crashanddie_zChris: maemo goodness in your car computer?14:04
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zChriscrashanddie_: I dont know since i havent tried Maemo. Im just curious what will happen with it now when Nokia is changing OS14:04
pupnik_the legitimate fear is bad decisions flowing from intel14:04
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crashanddie_pupnik_: bad decisions like what? Core 2 Duo? Intel Atom?14:05
Stskeepscrashanddie_: no, ARM saboteurs.14:05
pupnik_like shiftedsegment:offset14:05
X-FadezChris: It is not changing OS.14:05
pupnik_or rpm14:05
pupnik_or "meego"14:05
crashanddie_zChris: Maemo 5 will live, Maemo 6 will live, we're just working towards a common goal with another company14:05
niekt0X-Fade: Even better. But still, will it be slower? or more power consuming? shorter card lifetime?14:05
X-Fadeniekt0: You would find it out for us ;)14:06
X-Fadeniekt0: Not using a compressed filesystem will help with performance in writes, but can slow down in reads. It all depends.14:06
pupnik_maybe we could have a power efficient cpu with a shutdownable x86 core on the side for the occasional dosbox session :P14:07
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mashiaraX-Fade: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-February/003940.html14:13
lardman"morning£14:13
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X-Fademashiara: Yes, will look into it.14:14
mashiaraMaybe we could have a sanity-check in autobuilder that refuses packages with exact same names as the occresponding nokia repo14:14
mashiaras/occresponding/corresponding/14:14
infobotmashiara meant: Maybe we could have a sanity-check in autobuilder that refuses packages with exact same names as the corresponding nokia repo14:14
X-Fademashiara: There is. I wonder why it didn't work.14:14
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mashiaradoes not check for the source package name ?14:14
StskeepsX-Fade: it looks at binary package not source?14:14
X-FadeStskeeps: I think looks at binaries produced by source packages.14:15
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mashiarawouldn't it be "simplest" to extract the source package before building and check the control file14:16
X-Fademashiara: It does that.14:16
pupnik_X-Fade: what _is_ the proper upstream for maemo5 anyway.  i use debian sid at home so thats what i always grab14:16
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mashiarapupnik_: at least the kernel changelog lines say intrepid14:18
mashiarabut I don't think there is official upstream distro14:18
pupnik_yeah14:19
X-Fadepupnik_: No one knows ;)14:19
X-Fadepupnik_: With MeeGo, it will be more clear. As that is an upstream distro itself.14:20
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pupnik_"maego" would have been less annoying14:21
pupnik_oh well14:22
pupnik_nomen est omen14:22
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matthew-crashanddie_: If you dont agree with something, it doesnt mean you troll.14:24
matthew-you troll -> I troll.14:24
crashanddie_matthew-: I'm sorry?14:24
crashanddie_matthew-: context?14:24
crashanddie_matthew-: if you're going to throw out snarky comments, at least follow up on them, you twat14:26
crashanddie_anyway, going out for a cigarette, if you have anything else to say: PM14:26
t-tanmashiara: I've reported that kernel-source confict, too14:27
matthew-crashanddie_: No need to insult anyone.14:27
t-tanmashiara: the proper way should be like this: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/source/k/kernel-maemo/14:28
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mashiaraif you're going to package a custom kernel call it something else than kernel-maemo14:29
mashiarahowabout kernel-ttan14:29
mashiaraor ttan-kernel14:29
mashiarafor http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ i use hotspot-kernel14:29
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t-tanmashiara: the idea is have a common ommunity kernel, patches welcome. see TMO14:30
mashiaracommunity-kernel ?14:31
mashiaratrying to avoid confusion here...14:31
t-tanmashiara: yes, with enhancements to the stock kernel14:31
mashiarano I meant package name 'community-kernel'14:32
mashiarawith 'community-kernel-modules'14:32
t-tanmashiara: the community is called Maemo14:32
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adeushrrmh stupid freenode14:32
crashanddie_matthew-: why you don't just put your money where your mouth is? When did I say you were a troll? Bit of context please14:33
mashiarasure but if I didn't already know the difference of "kernel" and "kernel-maemo"/"maemo-kernel"14:33
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mashiarathen "kernel-maemo" would look a *lot* like the official name14:33
crashanddie_yo penguinbait14:34
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t-tanmashiara: it's primarily a package that contains the kernel, not the community :)14:34
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TriztFromWorkdamn, it was the community i wanted14:35
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mashiarais this comment on "community-kernel" vs "kernel-community" (or "maemo-kernel" vs "kernel-maemo")14:35
matthew-crashanddie_: On the forums.14:35
crashanddie_matthew-: LINK14:35
matthew-later.14:36
mashiaraor on the choice of the name used to differentiate the package from the stock kernel14:36
mashiara(my comments above meant for t-tan)14:36
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mashiarat-tan: in case you're interested in "my" patches see http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/mobilehotspot/trunk/patches/14:37
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matthew-crashanddie_: Dont you think its a bit of a power abuse?14:39
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crashanddie_matthew-: you're telling me to not call you a troll because allegedly I'm doing it to say we don't share the same opinion, and then you refuse to tell me where I did it14:40
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=531846&postcount=58514:40
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mashiarat-tan: I get the point about it being primarily kernel for some reason I just find it cleaner to use prefix-kernel(-xxx)? than kernel-suffix(-xxx)?14:40
crashanddie_matthew-: so I repeat, either own up on your allegations, or shut up14:40
TriztFromWorkhate when the n900 rejects to connect, no matter that the key phrase is correct14:41
matthew-crashanddie_: I am working, i said ill link it later.14:41
t-tanmashiara: if you think your patches are stable, I could integrate them into the package14:41
crashanddie_matthew-: and I say, sod off if you're going to troll14:41
crashanddie_matthew-: because that is _exactly_ trolling14:41
t-tanmashiara: so far no one complained about the name14:41
crashanddie_matthew-: so you have the time to go on IRC to diss people, but not to link?14:41
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tybolltPM, please?14:42
t-tant-tan: I have converted it to quilt, so its pretty easy to add/remove/change subpatches14:42
mashiarat-tan: I'm just touchy on the confusion issue right now, I wasted a lot of time on fixing stupidity in the "kernel" source package in extras devel cursing at the wrong people14:42
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t-tanmashiara: do you know the name of the guy who uploaded it?14:43
mashiarait's in the control file and I guess in autobuilders logs14:44
mashiarabut I already nuked the files from my SB14:44
mashiaraas for patches it's basically just configuration changes (enable NAT and QoS) and two quick and dirty oops fixes14:45
t-tanmashiara: ok, I already have NAT enabled. I can integrate your fixes and enable QoS14:46
TriztFromWorkt-tan; how likely will it be that you add nfs4 support?14:47
mashiarat-tan: while discussing packaging and different custom kernels, how about this idea: use Provides: kernel-modules-nat, kernel-modules-xxx etc14:48
mashiaraI do that on the hotspot packages (which are not in any repo yet)14:48
mashiaraand the hotspot UI depends on the provides lines not on the exact kernel name14:48
t-tanTriztFromWork: even in the stock kernel CONFIG_NFS_V4=y14:48
TriztFromWorklast time I tried it didn't want to mount the nfs414:49
t-tanmashiara: yes, that's something we could consider, but some modules require a new kernel, other would work with stock14:49
t-tanmashiara: ... yes, just specifiying provides is a good idea14:50
t-tanmashiara: I thought you meant independent modules packages14:51
mashiarat-tan: I know but those module packages can then depend on exact kernel versions (I have also been thinking about how to cleanly package minimal featuresets of packages, since not everyone needs everything that goes into the community kernel)14:51
mashiarat-tan: took a while to write that14:51
mashiarat-tan: also independent module packages would be nice (also in the case of the community kernel)14:52
t-tanmashiara: problem: for the community kernel they are in their indep modules directory14:52
t-tanmashiara: so that can simply reflash a stock kernel14:53
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t-tanmashiara: we could symlink them to the stock modules directory14:53
mashiarat-tan: I guess with carefull use of depends/provides these should be solvable, but we probably need to ask the stock kernel people to add some provides lines too14:54
mashiarapackage wise14:54
t-tanmashiara: Idealy Nokia should integrate useful and test patches from the community kernel, and then also add the "provides"14:55
t-tans/test/tested/14:55
infobott-tan meant: mashiara: Idealy Nokia should integrate useful and tested patches from the community kernel, and then also add the "provides"14:55
mashiarayep, moment I'll try to write some examples14:55
lcuk++ t-tan14:55
lcukcommunity provided patches would be a distinct benefit where pracitcal14:56
lcuknot just kernel14:56
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mashiaraIf we have for example package 'kernel-modules-joydev' that has one file, joydev.ko, this module works with plain stock kernel so the file can be placed on the same module directory. the package must depend on the exact stock kernel version. Then we have another package14:57
t-tanthe TMO thread for the community kernel: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4342014:57
t-tanwe should discuss our ideas there14:57
mashiarapoint14:57
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mashiarawill do14:59
t-tanmashiara: I'm just adding your patches to the comm.kernel14:59
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mashiaraok, though they're not really mine, talk usernames in patch file tell whose...15:00
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Salle74hello15:00
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t-tanmashiara: ok, thanks15:02
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Necchy. i have a simple question: is there any way to override or disable automatic software update checks?15:08
Neccplatform: maemo515:08
X-FadeNecc: Just disable the repository?15:09
Neccnot a solution15:09
X-FadeNecc: It is :)15:09
Neccno it is not15:09
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X-FadeYou might not like it ;)15:10
Necci asked to disable or override automatic checks, and not to kill completely the app manager15:10
adeusit's not a big task to re-enable it if you manually update anyways15:10
X-FadeIt is just a tickbox.15:10
Necc10x checkbox...15:10
fralsyou got 10 repos enabled? bloody hell15:10
X-FadeNecc: Then you are doing something wrong anyway :)15:11
Neccevery time when i wish to update or download new software... no this is not a solution, this is barbarism15:11
fralssearch the irclogs or talk.maemo.org, there is a setting to to change interval of automatic update15:11
X-FadeNecc: Or you click ignore once you see an update.15:11
X-FadeNecc: A lot easier.15:11
Necci looked after in talk.maemo.org, i found nothing just a pending bugreport15:11
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Neccautomatic software check is not visible event15:12
fralsthen search the irclogs or ml, im certain ive seen it somewhere15:12
Neccbut it irritates me that this stupid function eats up montly 85MB from my 20MB data plan. so i look a solution to disable or override it15:13
X-FadeNecc: Are you sure it auto updates over 3G? If so, file a bug about that?15:14
alteregoMine does over 3G15:14
Necci'm absolutely sure15:14
Neccaptitude checks for update in the background, and generates monthly a large amount data traffic15:15
SpeedEvilIndeed - updating over wifi also is a bug15:15
X-FadeNecc: Well that seems unwanted behavior to me.15:15
SpeedEvilor updating over usbnet15:15
X-FadeNecc: We don't use aptitude.15:15
SpeedEvilif it can't be disabled15:15
fralsits suppose to be "always online", i dont see why it would matter *what* connection it is... ;-)15:16
SpeedEvilfrals: it's not always online if it falls offline due to exceeding quots.15:16
SpeedEvilas15:16
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fralsye, no idea how people manage to get excessive data as im well within my 200mb monthly with autoupdate on extras, testing and devel15:17
SpeedEvilfrals: and you're on 3G all the time?15:17
fralsmostly yes15:17
tybolltfrals: You use MFE?15:17
Neccit is matter for me as IRC and IM (like skype or MSN) uses monthly 6-7MB data, so a 20MB data plan is just ideal for me, except this clearly unwanted periodical updates15:17
fralsyes, always online.. not syncing mailing list folders thou :p15:18
MiXu-How much do you pay for a 20MB plan then?15:18
Necci can set mail sync to wifi only15:18
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fralsNecc: if you check the h-a-m source on maemo.gitorious.org you can probably find the setting as well15:18
MiXu-Or 200MB15:18
MiXu-I'm paying 9,90e/month for an unlimited fullrate dataplan. It's so cheap that I don't see any point in having anything less.15:19
frals~4.9€15:19
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SpeedEvilwhere you are15:20
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MiXu-Finland15:20
SpeedEvilcosts vary dramatically.15:20
MiXu-apparently :)15:20
X-FadeIt is mostly a pain when you are roaming :)15:20
X-FadeBut if you don't allow automatic roaming, you should be fine.15:21
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adeusyeah15:21
MiXu-Well if I travel abroad, I'll just switch PSD off.15:21
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SpeedEvilThere is a difference between 'I want to read IRC for an hour' and 'I want several15:22
Neccwell good for you, but not data plan increase is the solution to fix a monthly 85MB data waste as mobile internet is damn expensive here15:22
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SpeedEvilmegabytes of update checked15:22
Arifunlimited data ftw15:23
X-FadeNecc: I agree, but do file a bug. It is the only way things will be fixed.15:23
Neccok i'm on it but sorry i've a few real life things now and i response with delay :)15:24
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mashiarat-tan: whev... Blatant cross-posting about some of my kernel packaging ideas, please go see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=532091#post53209115:24
t-tanmashiara: thanks15:24
X-FadeWhat genius decided to upload a linux kernel to extras-devel non-free?15:25
adeusisn't there a Maintainer-row :)15:26
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lcukX-Fade, fuck?15:26
SpeedEvilhmm. Force update of all repos generates 7M or so of traffic15:26
SpeedEvilDunno what normal checking would do.15:26
tybolltyikes15:26
X-FadeSpeedEvil: A lot more actually.15:26
lcuki had a kernel upgrade last night to correct version, didnt check its source because we have never had a kernel from extras15:26
tybolltfrals: also, do you surf anything?15:26
X-FadeSpeedEvil: Well, compressed yes.15:26
lcukX-Fade, that should be removed im gonna reflash15:27
SpeedEvilX-Fade: I mean - tcp/ip as measured by ifconfig15:27
fralstybollt: yeah, i check news/t.m.o daily on the bus/metro15:27
X-FadeSpeedEvil: Yeah, you are right.15:27
fralsguess im just lucky and get all the apt updates when im on wlan :p15:27
X-Fadelcuk: No it is named differently.15:27
X-Fadelcuk: That should not cause an update for you.15:27
lcukthats sorta a relief then15:27
tybolltfrals: IIRC a big sites like aftonbladet/DN etc takes a couple of MB just for the one load...15:28
lcukok i had a proper kernel update15:28
X-Fadelcuk: AM won't allow that anyway.15:28
fralstybollt: adblock ;-)15:28
fralsi think tele2s proxy eats some of it as well as im using that one15:28
tybolltfrals: does it work for you? :S15:28
fralsyes, flawless15:28
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X-Fadezimmerle: ping?15:30
X-Fadezimmerle: You're not supposed to uploaded a modified kernel package to extras-devel with modified binary targets.15:30
fralslcuk: kernelupdate? uname -a? ;)15:31
X-Fadezimmerle: This is not good: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/kernel/2.6.28-20100303+0m5/15:31
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tybolltfrals: I installed it but doesn't make a lick of difference... I should get the "block" thingies but don't :-|15:34
tybolltgranted - haven't tried since 11115:35
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NeccX-Fade: "do file a bug" oookay and how should i do that? :)15:36
adeushttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513715:37
povbot`Bug 5137: Add option to disable/enable periodic apt updates15:37
adeusmaybe that is relevant15:37
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fralsgconftool -st int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 214748364715:38
fralsthats the workaround it seems15:38
LaiskaHumm, just checking, is GL ES 1.x is now supported in the latest PR 1.1.1 update?15:38
Neccand it works for N900 too?15:39
Necci read that solution, but it applies for N8x0 and no informations about it will works on N90015:39
fralscould try15:39
Neccyes, OpenGL ES 1.1 is supported now in PR 1.1.115:40
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Neccwell i was able to execute "gconftool -st int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 2147483647" but no output15:41
Neccalso i love that no 'man' on N900 :| now i have no idea what i did15:42
frals~curse users15:42
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, users !15:42
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w00tfrals: *g*15:43
fralsw00t: >_<15:43
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kopte3hi15:49
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t-tanX-Fade: there are two kernels in extras-devel (as discussed before): the broken one you just mentioned and my renamed one in non-free15:50
kopte3can somebody help me finding something?15:50
X-Fadet-tan: Yeah, broken one removed.15:50
t-tanX-Fade: is something wrong with uploading a renamed one to extras-devel?15:50
X-Fadet-tan: But the renamed one should really be in free.15:50
t-tanX-Fade: it depends on fiasco-gen, that's why it's not in free yet15:51
Necckopte3: sure, if google was unable to help you15:51
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X-Fadet-tan: Then you really should just wait unfortunately.15:51
kopte3it's unable to help me.. :)15:51
X-Fadet-tan: Doing these direct uploads will only create a maintenance mess.15:51
kopte3ok.. i wanted to ask15:51
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kopte3where i can find thumbnails of desktop bookmarks15:52
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t-tanX-Fade: where is the policy for non-free? how should we know what to (not) do?15:52
kopte3i tried in /usr/share/bookmark-manager/thumbnails15:52
t-tanX-Fade: N900 users are fed up with waiting for months...15:53
kopte3but there are only thumbnails for preinstalled bookmarks15:53
X-Fadet-tan: Non-free software should go in non-free.15:53
alteregokopte3: I'd imagine it's in your home directory somewhere.15:53
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t-tanX-Fade: I've just emailed you a possible solution how to build it on autobuilder, so it could go to free15:54
X-Fadet-tan: And extras* is really all about users. We do what we can to make sure they aren't getting into a mes.15:54
kopte3yeah.. i know it's somewhere.. :) but i cannot find them15:54
mecekopte3, check under ~/.bookmarks15:54
X-Fade*mess15:54
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t-tanX-Fade: the kernel is actually non-free right now15:54
kopte3i will wait a sec :)15:54
kopte3tnx!15:55
X-Fadet-tan: Because?15:55
mecekopte3, /home/user/.bookmarks/MyBookmarks.xml15:55
t-tanX-Fade: it is "linked"/modified with a non-free binary called fiasco-gen15:56
* R4lph is away : I'm working... [=P= LogON]15:56
X-Fadet-tan: That is only the packaging. Doesn't make it non-free.15:56
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alteregoIt's not like it depends on it ...15:56
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kopte3great guys! thanks a lot!15:57
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t-tanif you cannot reproduce the binary with free tools it's a GPL violation15:57
kopte3bye ;)15:57
t-tanbut it's a legal grey area15:58
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X-Fadet-tan: well, you can.15:58
X-Fadet-tan: It needs to install on device, which is different.15:59
X-Fadet-tan: More a platform requirement than anything else.15:59
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SpeedEvilwhat is fiasco used for? Is it simply to flash the kernel to the right 'partition' ?16:00
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t-tanX-Fade: you could view it as a "firmware linked" to the kernel which is necessary to execute to kernel-on device. without that you need workarounds the distributed Nokia kernel package doesnt need16:01
SpeedEvilIf so - I don't see how it's a GPL violation - as you can flash non-GPL kernels onto the device16:01
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X-FadeSpeedEvil: It is only needed in the install phase.16:01
Stskeepst-tan: it isn't needed to execute kernel on device.16:01
SpeedEvilAny more than - say - ftp is required to be GPLd to fetch the kernel sources16:02
t-tanSpeedEvil: it modifies the kernel image for flashing16:02
Stskeepst-tan: it is a packaging format, not a linked item16:02
t-tanStskeeps: that's the legal grey area16:02
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Stskeepsbesides that16:03
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Stskeepsfiasco-gen in non-free was what we could do very quickly16:03
Stskeepsopen sourcing takes time.16:03
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t-tanI don't want to get into GPL fights, I just want to help other people to get easy access to enhanced kernels16:04
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Stskeepsof course16:04
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X-Fadet-tan: Don't want to hold you back of course.16:07
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paroneayeais it true that meego isn't going to be running X11, an instead that piece of shit qt windowing system?16:12
w00tfalse16:12
Andrewfblackanyone setup n900 to connect to a network that provides the WEP when you connect?16:12
paroneayeaw00t: whew.  Any information to back that up?16:13
Stskeepsparoneayea: X11, for sure16:13
paroneayeaah okay16:13
w00tparoneayea: somewhere on meego.com16:13
paroneayeathat is a huuuuuuge relief16:13
w00tparoneayea: give me a moment16:13
w00thttp://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process16:13
w00tparoneayea: also, #meego might be a better place for this16:13
paroneayeayes true16:13
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mgedminAndrewfblack, no; WPA here16:13
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paroneayeaw00t: I joined there a couple of days ago, it was a madhouse, maybe because of questions just like the ones I asked ;)16:14
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paroneayeabut true16:14
* w00t nods16:14
w00tit's calmer now16:14
Andrewfblackwork network uses Root cert and have to setup to accept WEP from server but don't see that option on N900 could have sworn it was on N81016:14
* Arif yawns16:15
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NeccAndrewfblack: if you use wifi and WEP security, there're a bug that N900 lacks some function about it. There're a bug at bugs.maemo.org and set as: wontfix but planned to fixed on maemo6 (sorry i don't remember exact details)16:24
nid0tbh, heres hoping m6 just disables wep or plants a big "l2security" sign over the option16:25
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sobczykis there a reason why probably X is crashing on my n900 when connecting to an unprotected wifi network?16:27
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Kegetyssecurity measure to stop you from using such networks16:30
sobczykyeah right16:30
mgedminX is crashing?16:31
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sobczykprobably it's X because I see the dots splash an then the nokia splash16:31
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mgedmincat /proc/boot_reason ?16:32
sobczyksw_rst16:33
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mgedminhead /var/lib/dsme/stats/*16:34
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mgedminI think one of the lines in /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts ought to have a little * next to it16:35
mgedmintelling which core system process died and caused the lifeguard to reboot your n90016:35
mgedminhm or maybe no16:35
Stskeepsmgedmin: could you be lured to log #meego, btw?16:35
mgedminI have a lifeguard_restarts and a .bak file16:35
mgedmindiffing them tells me camera-ui restarts increased by one16:36
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mgedminactually, restarts is about restarting processes, innit?16:36
mgedminit's resets that's about rebooting the device?16:36
mgedminStskeeps, *sigh* okay sure16:36
mgedminsupybot is a kind of a paint to configure16:36
mgedminmaybe I should write a script16:36
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sobczyk /usr/bin/ohm-session-agent: 1 (...) camera-ui:8 (...) syncd: 116:36
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mgedminStskeeps, do you want bug number translations in #meego?16:37
sobczyktheres a bak too with two first lines the same16:37
mgedmindo they use the maemo bugzilla or will meego have their own bug tracker?16:37
Stskeepsmgedmin: let's wait with that until there's answer on meego bugtracker16:37
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brady47I think they said their own bugzilla would be setup soon16:38
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brady47don't know if they are gonna transfer over any stuff from maemo bz tho16:38
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alteregoJesus, how old are these people arguing over RPM vs. DEB?16:46
threshi'm 14!16:46
alteregoHah16:46
alteregoOh niceOMAP2 MBX drivers are out :D16:47
Stskeepsa lot of stuff happening these days16:48
w00talterego: people will argue over a lot of things, the difficult bit is getting them to follow through on the arguments :-)16:48
SpeedEvilI'm 12, what is this?16:48
RST38hStskeeps: Ice Age!16:48
w00tSpeedEvil: diaf16:48
sejohmm the new maemo update is there a changelog somewhere?16:48
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alteregoStskeeps: Nice about the thumbs up/down of planet maemo, sticks your post right on the front page. :)16:49
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alteregomeego is old news now ^.^16:49
RST38hStskeeps: We should elect the Sabre Toothed Squirrel, together with the council members16:49
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petteriwhats up the disappearing maemo 6 interface videos. They appear on my rss feed, but they are not really available?16:50
petterianyone got proper link to those?16:50
RST38hpetteri: Nokia removed them16:50
alteregoRST38h: any idea why yet?16:50
RST38halterego: Does it matter?16:50
alteregoS'pose not ..16:50
RST38hProbably they were too early16:50
X-FadePackages are still in extras-devel btw.16:51
petteriRST38h: ok, thanks16:51
X-Fadepetteri: apt-get install dui-demos16:51
alteregoIn a related question, was that just QtCreator used to develop on that video?16:51
Bluewindthe gui package manager shows me teh packages of the new fireware but neither the update function nor apt-get dist-upgrade see them. ideas?16:51
X-Fadewith extras-devel enabled.16:51
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petteriX-Fade: thanks, will try to find link from the web interface of the repo16:52
X-Fadepetteri: Installs quite some packages, so better use apt-get ;)16:52
petteriX-Fade: ah ok16:53
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t-tanX-Fade: can a package in autobuilder download some file while building?16:57
X-Fadet-tan: no16:58
X-Fadet-tan: Every sane builder has no outside access.16:58
t-tanX-Fade: hmm, bad. then my workaround wont work :(16:59
X-Fadet-tan: I'm thinking you are going to expose your key ;)16:59
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t-tanX-Fade: I have only tried with fiasco-gen in the builddeps, but actually the package should be sdk-fiasco-gen. would autobuilder install that package or just fail?17:01
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t-tanX-Fade: because it's only in the latest SDK17:01
X-Fadet-tan: It will fail becaue it is not in the that version of the sdk.17:02
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t-tanX-Fade: :( that's what I expected. so would you mind if I upload kernel-maemo to non-free till the SDK is updated in autobuider?17:03
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sobczykwhich python qt4 bindings are preffered (pyside or python2.5)?17:23
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* Arif sneezes at the N900 conversations app17:25
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ArifIt needs a font size option!17:26
Arif:)17:26
Arif:(17:26
Kegetysand an option to turn off the sound/vibrate for skype group chats17:27
ArifI don't have anyone to skype with17:27
* Arif cries in a corner17:27
ArifI only use MSN / IRC17:28
meceArif, isn't conversations is css? You can change the font in the css file. There's a thread somewhere..17:28
Kegetysits quite annoying when a bunch of other people start chatting in the middle of the night and the device starts beeping and whirring on the table for hours on end17:28
Arifmece, if I knew what I was doing maybe =}17:28
ArifKegetys, hint: go offline when you sleep!17:28
Kegetysthen I wont get private messages either17:29
Arifuse a bouncer :P17:29
Arifhmm I was thinking17:30
Arifcan't you set different statuses for different accounts17:30
meceArif, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3661817:30
meceArif, you can have a custom status, that have custom statuses for each account.17:30
ArifI want to be online on my VoiP account but offline on MSN17:30
Arifdoes that count as custom?17:31
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meceArif, just go to my availability, new status, and choose what status each service want.17:32
Arifoo, I didn't know that .. :D17:33
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BBNSBonjour!17:33
meceArif, good luck with that. gotta go. toodles.17:33
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pupnik_anybody got a Opengl ES 1.1 test app built?17:46
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Arifhmm17:49
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Arifdoes ový store accept other means to pay than credýt cards? :O17:49
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javispedropupnik: what do you want? I can send you the "interesting" file from a bigger app that I have17:52
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javispedroeitherway any GLES2 sample will suffice,17:53
javispedrothe changes are minimal17:53
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javispedrojust swap -lGLESv2 for -lGLES_CM17:54
pupnik_acha17:54
pupnik_theres that nice scroller maryo world17:55
javispedrothat's SDL?17:55
pupnik_sdl+gl17:55
javispedrowhen I finish my current project (SDL+hildon input method) I plan to start SDL GLES "addon"17:55
javispedrowithout patching the maemo sdl17:55
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javispedrothe SDL+him stuff should fix the rover.sys issue once for all, I hope.17:56
pupnik_hmm17:56
pupnik_that is wonderful17:56
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pupnik_that should be +500 karma right there17:57
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satmdcan I make n900 prefer sip over mobile?18:05
dazosatmd:  I believe over 3G should work fine ... it's all about the available bandwidth18:05
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satmdwell, I mean18:06
satmda way to chose sip calls rather than regular calls18:06
dazoahh18:06
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satmdsomething along simple call routing rules18:06
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* dazo is very much satisfied with the latest m5 update ... battery consumption is reduced quite drastically, he might not need to charge the phone in the evening today ....18:07
javispedroyeah, it seems they fixed a "quite-common-but-I-never experienced-it" Wifi battery-draining bug18:08
Brendan[BP]lucky for you dazo!18:08
Wild_Doogyyou make me want to buy a sim card so I can update my N90018:08
ArifMy N900 lasts 3 days on a charge18:08
Arifo.o18:08
Brendan[BP]mines still a battery eater18:08
pupnik_brb18:08
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Corsacyeah, since I removed quite a lot of apps it stays up really long18:08
toggles_wArif: wow! i assume no wifi18:08
Brendan[BP]i had to remove a whole bunch to install update18:08
Arifonly when I use it18:08
Arifwhich is a few hours a day18:08
Corsacnot sure if it was camkeyd or the jack headphone daemon18:09
javispedrotoggles_w: mine's gets 2 and a bit days with wi-fi on 24h18:09
Brendan[BP]got sooo many crappy apps on there that i dnt need haha18:09
Ariflike 5-618:09
toggles_wwow, i'm lucky to get 10hrs with wifi18:09
Arifand 3 hours of radio streaming on 3G18:09
Arif:p18:09
javispedrotoggles_w: ap failure18:09
Brendan[BP]yeah im lucky for 10hrs too18:09
* toggles_w carries a spare battery18:09
Brendan[BP]hahahah18:09
Brendan[BP]i want a spare batt18:09
ArifI don't use mail/IM that much18:09
Arifmaybe that's why :D18:09
Brendan[BP]thought about getting one but i know id forget it18:09
Wild_DoogyQuestion: I assume that while the possessor is at 250 Mhz, it consumes the least power, but while its at that speed, does it matter how much it is being used?18:09
valdynWild_Doogy: most certainly18:10
javispedroI have 30minutes POP3 mail checker on, and xmpp & skype enabled18:10
toggles_wjavispedro: ap failure? the only thing i can think of that i have running is the cpu mon18:10
Brendan[BP]my mail check is every 5mins18:10
ArifI'm not interesting enough to get mail ;P18:10
Brendan[BP]for exchange18:10
javispedrotoggles_w: may not support wi-fi power savings.18:10
dazoBefore the latest update (which I got yesterday), it lasted 10-12 hours, with wifi on constantly ... SIP, MSN and ICQ logged in most of the time ... but today, it's like the battery still got 75% after 7-8 hours18:11
Brendan[BP]anyone think theyll every give the ability to hav a secondary exchange off ur primary account18:11
Wild_DoogyAKA, is no apts running, and a small-amount-but-not-enough-to-kick-it-into-500MHz the same amperage usage?18:11
toggles_wyeah, could be the router18:11
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valdynWild_Doogy: no18:11
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javispedrodazo: I have this feeling the extra telepathy plugins are not easy on the battery18:11
Wild_Doogyok, thanks good to know.18:12
valdynWild_Doogy: i dont know this cpu arch, but since even older intel chips have sleep states, this one surely does18:12
dazojavispedro:  I'm using the haze version ... but I didn't notice much difference in consumption before and after installing that one18:12
ArifI'm waiting for file transfer support for all those plugins :P18:12
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Brendan[BP]Pecan seems to eat up battery like crazy for me18:13
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Brendan[BP]3hrs hard use battery goes down pretty darn low18:13
dazoBrendan[BP]:  have you checked with powertop?18:13
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* javispedro looks at this n800... last recharge: sunday. still at 50%.18:13
javispedros/n800/n81018:13
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Brendan[BP]dazo no i havnt as of yet, i monitored it for a day with bateye18:13
* Arif throws an N910 at javispedro18:14
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* javispedro grabs N910 and uses it to time travel18:14
dazoBrendan[BP]:  I haven't tried bateye .... Will try that one when I see how the battery situation will be after a few days18:15
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Brendan[BP]dazo excellent, am curious to know how other peoples are going18:15
dazo:)18:15
Brendan[BP]any ideas on the Exchange tho18:15
Brendan[BP]ØS18:15
Brendan[BP]**:S18:16
* dazo just want to be sure he can point at bateye if the battery begins to drain again :-P18:16
Brendan[BP]dazo hahah you sure can!18:16
Corsacbateye is really nice18:17
Corsacand doesn't seem to take too much battery18:17
Corsacbut that way I can monitor how much battery my various usages take18:17
Brendan[BP]mmm yeah ill give you that battery consumption is seemingly low with bateye18:17
dazoBrendan[BP]:  well, I'm not using any automatic poll on my IMAP accounts .... but I believe that can also affect a lot, especially when you're using 5min poll time .... Not sure how Exchange proto is compared to IMAP also, in regards to energy consumption18:17
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Brendan[BP]dazo nar i wasnt talking about that i was more talking about the implementation of the ability to add a secondary exchange account hanging off the primary18:18
Brendan[BP]as i have a work email and a personal both off same exchange server, diff domains ofc but the personal is techincally a sub of my primary account18:19
dazoBrendan[BP]:  ahh ... sorry ... I'm more of the anti-exchange guys .... don't understand why MS had to reimplement the IMAP protocol :-P18:19
Brendan[BP]nawww i love exchange!18:19
Brendan[BP]crap that reminds me needa go onto Kaseya irc now18:20
Brendan[BP]:(18:20
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* satmd also wants to disable the sip chat feature18:20
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* dazo is a firm believer in open standards ... and avoid as many proprietary solutions as possible, wherever he can18:21
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dazowhich is why I found N900 to be the best mobile phone on the marked right now18:21
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satmdsame here18:22
lardmanI received a skype call from Oz this morning, was pretty good, quite impressed how seemless the whole thing was18:22
lardmanin fact probably less laggy than one via a sat, less fibre to travel through ;)18:22
javispedroSkype is very good on the N900 IMHO.18:22
javispedroit's the first thing I did on mine :)18:23
lardmanwould be good to get the video feature working though18:23
lardmanI've never bothered as I get free landline calls to the UK and very cheap to abroad18:23
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timeless_mbpsatmd: sip handling is much nicer in the next major release18:23
javispedroI have free Wi-Fi on most places I go, so it's nice.18:23
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satmdtimeless_mbp: oh... do you have any info about sip video support yet? ;)18:24
toggles_wtimeless_mbp: please elaborate!18:24
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timeless_mbpsatmd: nope, i'm just calling my sister and parents18:25
timeless_mbpand it's now remembering which service i used to call a normal phone number18:25
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lardmanusing new improved sip support? ;)18:25
satmd:D18:26
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* toggles_w looks at his poor n900 in a tub of rice18:26
Hydroxidehi ... can anyone tell me the correct incantation to import a non-default root CA into my n900 so that MicroB, OpenSSL, etc will recognize websites signed directly or indirectly by that CA?18:26
lardmantoggles_w: did it get wet?18:26
X-Fadetoggles_w: Not the toilet I hope? )18:26
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toggles_wlardman: yup, washed it monday night, hope to rescue it from the rice in a few hours18:26
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lardmangood luck!18:26
toggles_wthx18:26
nidOgood old tek7 for that lil tip18:27
X-Fadetoggles_w: Battery removed?18:27
SpeedEvilRice is a bad idea.18:27
toggles_wyup18:27
SpeedEvilIt does not remove that much water.18:27
timeless_mbpHydroxide: you can use a normal firefox to add a certificate authority root18:27
timeless_mbpand then copy the proper database files to your n90018:27
toggles_wSpeedEvil: best i have18:27
SpeedEvil80C in an oven or a drying cabinet for 24h.18:27
nidOit removes it better than just about anything else that people tend to have lying round18:27
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lardmanSpeedEvil: dessicant?18:27
SpeedEvilMost people have ovens.18:27
Hydroxidetimeless_mbp: but I can't do it from the n900 directly?18:27
nidOa decent amount of silica crystals are hard to come by18:27
timeless_mbpHydroxide: you can18:27
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SpeedEvilYou do need to verify that it is in fact at 80C though18:28
lardmanairing cupboard, or by the hotwater tank18:28
timeless_mbpbut it'll probably be easier to use a normal computer18:28
SpeedEvil(or dissasemble)18:28
Brendan[BP]buy lots of nachos and get the dessicant packets out of them hahah18:28
* timeless_mbp is on an international call18:28
Hydroxidetimeless_mbp: I tried opening the cert with the file manager, and it installed but didn't actually seem to get treated as a CA cert18:28
lardmannot in the hotwater tank though ;)18:28
timeless_mbpHydroxide: well18:28
timeless_mbpif it isn't a ca cert18:28
Hydroxideit is :)18:28
timeless_mbpthen your cert is broken and your expectations are wrong18:28
timeless_mbpurl?18:28
* javispedro fries an USB SATA Bridge chip18:29
timeless_mbpjavispedro: congrats18:29
HydroxideI scp'ed it from /etc/ssl/certs on a trusted debian machine to avoid needing to verify fingerprints, but it's downloadable here: http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/spi-cacert.crt18:29
javispedroworst thing is that I don't know what I did, but it's now way too hot to touch.18:29
Hydroxidetimeless_mbp: see ^^ - on my copy it ends in .pem instead of .crt but hopefully the certificate manager won't behave differently because of that18:30
Hydroxidetimeless_mbp: it's also possible that it got installed but the MicroB browser doesn't support dealing with intermediate certs - hopefully it does though since gecko can handle it fine in general18:31
Hydroxidethat's the root - the site I'm trying to access has one intermediate in between.18:31
timeless_mbpis the site publicly available?18:31
Hydroxidehttps://penta.debconf.org/ for example ...18:32
Hydroxideanything SSLified on Debian or DebConf18:32
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HydroxideI highly doubt debian/debconf sysadmins got this wrong :) [no, I'm not one of them]18:33
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satmdHydroxide: get the certificate file, store it on the filesystem, use the file manager to open the .crt, voila18:33
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dazotoggles_w:  I've heard some people having had such incidents before ... and what they did, they opened the soaked device, took out those parts which will not be destroyed by water (loudspeakers, microphones) ... which usually meant the circuit boards .... and put it into a big container containing disinfected water .... and a lot of it .... so that all possible dirt are loosened up18:33
LuciusMarehi, i have a question about the meego - how open will it be?18:33
mgedmindisinfected or distilled?18:33
Hydroxidesatmd: that's what I tried. it didn't work. though my copy is named .pem - will it behave differently if I rename it to .crt first?18:33
Hydroxidesatmd: (it's the same certificate, just grabbed from /etc/ssl/certs/ on a Debian machine)18:34
satmdopenssl x509 -in file.pem -out file.crt -inform PEM -outform DER18:34
dazotoggles_w:  then after a few hours in that water .... it was time to dry it in a warm room .... wiping off as much of the water as possible, and let it air-dry the rest for a day18:34
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Hydroxidesatmd: does it need to be in DER format specifically or just have the .crt extension?18:34
dazotoggles_w:  one guy did this on a couple of different devices with big success18:34
satmdHydroxide: you can try both18:34
lardmanbye18:34
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Hydroxidesatmd: ok. it's definitely worth a try. are you guessing or do you know it'll have different behavior?18:35
dazomgedmin:  distilled18:35
Hydroxideoh, and should I have to restart my n900 for this to take effect, or just quit all browser windows and pkill browserd?18:35
satmdwell, .pem seems not to be tied to the cert manager18:35
satmdI'm not sure the cert manager will do content mangling18:35
dazotoggles_w:  distilled water, I meant .... mgedmin gave me the correct word :)18:35
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dazoLuciusMare:  I believe as open as maemo and moblin is today ... but #meego might give better answers18:37
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timeless_mbpHydroxide: so um18:38
timeless_mbpbetting that debian people get crypto right18:38
timeless_mbpis a terrible idea18:38
timeless_mbpthat said, the cert installs fine w/ firefox on my mac18:38
dazohahaha18:38
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LuciusMarehrj18:39
* Hydroxide decides not to get into that particular potential flamewar :)18:39
dazotimeless_mbp:  are you thinking about the openssl incident a couple of years ago? ;-)18:39
timeless_mbpdazo: why not? :)18:39
timeless_mbpthere are other cases too fwiw18:39
Hydroxidetimeless_mbp: note I referred to the sysadmins. I didn't refer to "debian developers fixing a bug in openssl after consulting upstream about their proposed fix"18:40
timeless_mbpthere are some debian people who are very pro <what was that ca that never got audited?>18:40
dazotimeless_mbp:  yeah, nobody is perfect :)18:40
Hydroxidetimeless_mbp: in any case, they definitely know how to make a valid CA cert18:40
timeless_mbpHydroxide: step 1. break open ssl. step 2. use the broken ssl to generate a CA cert18:40
dazoIn general, trusting one single unity in regards to security and encryption is the first mistake18:40
timeless_mbp:)18:40
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Hydroxidetimeless_mbp: there is a reason why they regenerated their CA cert after that incident... :)18:41
dazoyup :)18:41
* timeless_mbp was just going to check the dates on the cert18:41
Hydroxideit's a 2008 cert, after openssl was fixed18:41
timeless_mbpmay 200818:41
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timeless_mbpi was also thinking of cacert fwiw18:42
timeless_mbpanyway, there's a package in extras-something18:43
timeless_mbpwhich gives you the mozilla crypto dialogs18:43
timeless_mbpi think you won't need that package in the next browser upgrade18:44
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timeless_mbp"microb-engine-comment-ext"18:44
* timeless_mbp frowns18:45
timeless_mbpthe phone application is a bit slow here18:45
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slonopotamushmm... how i check if autobuilder's going to build my pkg? :)18:46
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slonopotamusor how long i should wait before it starts18:47
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woglindejo18:47
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slonopotamusand how i see how many packages before mine are in queue?18:48
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timeless_mbp!summon konttori18:49
timeless_mbpthe icon dropping algorithm for Call in portrait is a bit challenged18:49
slonopotamusand what idiot made usb connector that way18:49
woglindeslonopotamus hm there is no option18:50
X-Fadeslonopotamus: there are none waiting.18:50
X-Fadeslonopotamus: But there is virtually no wait queue anymore.18:50
X-Fadeslonopotamus: As we have sufficient hardware now.18:50
slonopotamusX-Fade, hmm... where i uploaded it to then? :)18:50
X-Fadeslonopotamus: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-February/017245.html18:51
X-FadeThis one?18:51
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timeless_mbpHydroxide: fwiw18:51
timeless_mbpthe SiPI cert kinda sucks18:51
timeless_mbpthe name of their CA is "Certificate Authority"18:51
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timeless_mbpwhich is hardly professional18:51
timeless_mbpwhich isn't to say that all CAs get this right18:51
Hydroxideyes, that was actually less stupid before they regenerated it18:52
slonopotamusX-Fade, err... where you got link to it? yep, it's mine.18:52
nidOsigh, nokia + the uk hate is wearing thin now18:52
timeless_mbpactually, lemme take that back18:52
X-Fadeslonopotamus: You should have gotten that mail too.18:52
timeless_mbpreal ca's generally don't get that terribly wrong18:52
X-Fadeslonopotamus: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-February/date.html#end18:52
timeless_mbpcorporate ca's generally do get that terribly wrong18:52
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Hydroxideat the same time, it's not like "Equifax Secure Global Business CA-1" or such is any more meaningful - it just sounds more meaningful18:52
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slonopotamuscraaap18:52
Hydroxidethe company that owns it isn't even Equifax :)18:53
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Hydroxide(it's GeoTrust)18:53
slonopotamusnewest messages at bottom :)18:53
Wild_Doogydoes anyone know if there is a plug-in so I can take lower quality pictures with my N900 so I can email them easier?18:54
timeless_mbpHydroxide: it was when it was originally created18:54
slonopotamusX-Fade, uploading docs didn't say anything about signing...more than that, dput config file explicitely allows unsigned uploads.18:54
timeless_mbpbut the thing is you don't generally see two rows18:54
timeless_mbpwhich means you will see "signed by Certificate Authority"18:54
timeless_mbpwhich is utterly useless18:54
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timeless_mbpi saw something like that when i went to delete your CA18:54
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slonopotamusah, i guess i need to _remove_ signature18:55
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X-Fadeslonopotamus: Is it your signature?18:56
DarkGUNMAN <Wild_Doogy> You could use GIMP in Easy Debian to resize the picture18:56
slonopotamusX-Fade, nope, i tried to upload debian package asis18:57
slonopotamuswill fix it now...18:58
Wild_DoogyDarkGUNMAN: Thanks, I don't have easy Debian yet? think I should get it?  (will it let me run Ubuntu apps?)18:59
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cehtehWild_Doogy: the 'sharing' stuff lets you scale down a picture and email it19:02
_andyHi.19:02
_andywhen I boot my device it says "Malfunction ! Device shutdown in 10s"19:02
slonopotamusX-Fade, do i need to upload two .changes files, for arm and x86?19:02
_andywill this prevent me from reflashing teh firmware over usb?19:02
cehtehyou could try at least19:03
slonopotamusX-Fade, if yes, how i generate them without rebuilding?19:03
_andycahteh: i did try.. it didn't work but i've never flashed it before so I don't know if i'm doing something wrong or if the device is not flashable19:03
cehtehif you follow the instructions, flashing should work fine .. but i never heared about this 'malfunction' error, sounds somewhat serious19:04
cehtehmaybe its really broken19:04
_andycahteh: its not hardware, ii messed with /usr/lib.19:05
slonopotamusis there a single-command way to switch sb target?19:05
Wild_Doogycehteh: thanks, thats what I needed to know.19:05
cehteh_andy: then flashing should work19:05
* RST38h moos at slonopotamus19:06
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slonopotamusRST38h, aye19:06
cehteh~ $ groups19:06
cehteh-sh: groups: not found19:06
cehteh.. how i like this :PO19:06
slonopotamusRST38h, trying to use sb :)19:07
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slonopotamus:(19:07
pupnikthere is  sb-(tab)19:07
slonopotamusokaay19:07
pupniknot menu, set iirc19:07
Corsacin soviet russia, sb uses you19:07
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slonopotamuswoah, it builds my thing19:08
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cehtehRST38h: i am going to work on a xchat notification light plugin, would you package it with xchat, i have no intention to go the packaging route for this by myself19:09
RST38hcehteh: Of course, let me know when you are ready and I will import it. There is a few more little changes pending too19:10
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RST38hslonopotamus: I suggest sb219:10
cehtehok thanks19:10
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cehtehmay take a bit19:11
RST38hslonopotamus: There you change with maemo-sdk, or supply a few command line parameters to avid going through menus19:11
RST38hcehteh: Afaik, it is sufficient to have a shell script that blinks the led, xchat will invoke it19:11
woglindehm19:11
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woglindewith meego it seems to me that sb/sb2 is dead too19:11
cehtehRST38h: not really .. it blinks but you cant turn it properly off19:11
RST38hoh, yes19:11
RST38hcehteh: it does not invoke the script to cancel it, correct :)19:12
RST38hwoglinde: remember, we are still at maemo519:12
cehtehi am going to do this in C, written a xchat plugin before, not really a big deal19:12
woglinderst *g*19:12
woglindeI know19:12
cehtehthere is the hack on t.m.o to hook that script into the sound-playing bing19:12
* RST38h will probably get to use maeblin toolchains at work soon though19:12
woglindebut I live in future sometimes19:12
kokoszwhat are you guys using for irc on n900? irssi or xchat? whats better?19:12
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RST38hcehteh: Make sure you do not use any timers.19:13
cehtehno i hook it into xchats notification things19:13
RST38hcehteh: Any running timer will basically prevent Maemo from sleeping and waste battery19:13
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* RST38h wonders where qwerty is19:13
cehtehthats my intention, doing this in a 'correct' way19:14
cehtehhacks dont scale :P19:14
RST38hsome do =)19:14
pupnikwho got rid of ctrl-g for bell19:14
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_andycahteh i am happy to report it was windows driver weirdness.. flashing in an ubuntu vm worked.19:15
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* RST38h imagines flashing from ubunutu vm and cringes involuntarily19:15
mgedminwow, a vm that supports usb19:17
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woglindeRST38h seem he is only available via email19:17
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redhmm19:24
redafter the 1.1.1 update my screen never dims19:24
redunless I lock it19:25
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redanyone experienced the same?19:25
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valdynred: theres an always on switch for the screen, checked that its off?19:26
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redofcourse19:27
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redi did have flipclock installed priod to update, which had a feature of keeping the screen forced on while it's running19:27
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redso not quite sure if its a leftover bug from it, i uninstalled it before updating to 1.1.119:27
valdynred: could be19:27
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redit indeed is a bug in flipclock19:29
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redill see if tweaking the dim timeout back and forth resolves it19:29
redworks yay19:29
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toggles_wdazo: thanks, mine was showing a light when i rescued it, so i'm hoping it'll be ok, will know in a few hours19:41
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pupnikhow often do you use the N900?  i keep pulling it out to look up things.  maybe 80 times a day19:43
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woglindeuahhahaa19:45
woglindehttp://www.aavamobile.com/19:45
woglindeFIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!19:45
Kegetysx86 phone... no thanks19:45
javispedrocapacitive :(19:46
Wild_Doogydoes Toggles_W stand for toggles_wet as you are currently toggeling your N900's state from "Wet" to "Dry"?19:46
woglindethey claim that they are FIRST19:46
woglindethats the point19:46
Wild_Doogylol19:46
javispedroah well, everybody does it these days.19:46
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javispedroit's just that they try to follow Apple, but only Apple has the story-rewriting RDF.19:47
woglindeokay19:47
woglindebye19:47
javispedro;)19:47
woglindetill later19:47
woglindeheading home19:47
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Wild_Doogyjavispedro: Why dont you like capacitive? (just curious)19:47
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javispedroWild_Doogy: cause I like a stylus.19:47
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Wild_Doogyoh, me too, but I would like to mess with multitouch19:48
Wild_Doogyis there such a thing as a capacitive stylus?19:48
javispedrofine. But I prefer a stylus to multitouch and as you can guess multitouch with a stylus doesn't make much sense.19:48
Wild_Doogy(must be)19:48
Kegetysmultistylus19:48
javispedrothere are capacitive stylus, but they all suck.19:49
javispedrosee the tip.19:49
Wild_Doogyoh lol19:49
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Wild_Doogymulti-stylus, hahaha19:49
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Wild_Doogyits called fingernails19:49
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Kegetysas easy as eating with chopsticks19:50
SaBera sausage works as a capacitive stylus19:50
Wild_Doogyhahaha19:50
Wild_Doogyrolling on the floor over here19:50
Wild_Doogy-smear-19:51
Wild_Doogy-click- -smear-19:51
javispedrosmeegol19:51
aSIMULAtorisn't it there was a news article about how koreans are using this type of sausage as a stylus19:51
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javispedrolol it's true.19:52
aSIMULAtorhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/iphone-sausage-stylus-kor_n_459845.html19:52
javispedrohttp://asia.cnet.com/i/r/2010/crave/hp/63016968/iphone_520x347.jpg19:52
CutMeOwnThroatmmm, sausage inna bun, anyone?19:52
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Arkenoimy pdair case just arrived.19:52
aSIMULAtorthat's waht she said19:52
aSIMULAtor:P19:52
Wild_Doogywe develop multi million dollar stylus, Koreans use sausage19:52
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javispedroWild_Doogy: s/sausage/$10 sausage/19:52
ponyofdeathhi, wondering if someone could help me out on what process they used to import their contacts from iphone to nokia n900 csv file doesnt work19:53
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Arkenoipros: reasonably good quality, everything is accessible19:53
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Arkenoicons: tick and keyboard is under the transparent film19:53
javispedro...for a moment I though you were talking about the sausage stylus.19:53
Wild_Doogyponyofdeath: I had some luck with contact cards. you end up with hundreds, but it LOOKS like you can combine then all into one card19:55
Wild_Doogy.vcf or something19:55
ponyofdeathWild_Doogy: ok cool i think someone documented that http://allurgroceries.com/iphone2n900/19:55
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Wild_Doogywelcome19:56
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Wild_Doogynow, can anyone help me get my contacts out of yahoo mail?  >_>19:57
Wild_Doogycurrently it looks like I will be one-by-oneing it19:57
slonopotamusWild_Doogy, no imap/pop3?19:57
flipoukHello19:58
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flipoukIs it normal that I haven't got the update to 3.2010.02-8?19:58
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flipoukI mean on the N900?19:58
Wild_Doogythat costs money  :-D19:59
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Wild_Doogynot @ you flip19:59
flipouk;-)19:59
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slonopotamus... n800 control panel doesn't want to swap to external sd :/19:59
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flipoukSorry, is it the right channel for N900-related discussions?20:00
Wild_Doogyyes20:00
slonopotamusswapon to resque!20:00
slonopotamusflipouk, yep20:00
flipoukok20:00
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smharwill the new Nokia/Intel alliance kill maemo? will the new Meego be the future of Maemo? will N900 run Meego?20:01
Wild_Doogyflip version 3X of what?20:01
flipoukWild_Doogy: I refer to the firmware update, you know the minor one that popped up earlier this week20:01
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* Arif demands a faster app manager in the next firmware :P20:02
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pupniksmhar GOTO talk.maemo.org for endless chatter about that20:02
Wild_DoogyI should probably see what my version is then20:03
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flipoukWild_Doogy: do you mind checking? You would have noticed a firmware update though, wouldn't you?20:03
ShadowJKflipouk, it doesn't change anything for maemo5 and n90020:03
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flipoukI am in the UK... Maybe Brits get served later ;-)20:04
ShadowJKProbably maemo6 wont be fully meego either20:04
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javispedroit's just m6 renamed to meego, this was confirmed previously (they will keep using .deb, etc.)20:04
ShadowJKflipouk, got n900 from voda or other operator?20:04
flipoukShadowJK: I bought it directly from Nokia.20:05
flipoukAnd I am on O220:05
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Arifwhat's the difference between those firmwares anyway o_o20:06
ShadowJKhm20:06
ShadowJKarif: nobody knows20:06
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Wild_Doogyflipouk: I just opened the app manager, and I wants me to update maemo 5 version 3.2010.02-8.00220:06
Wild_Doogy(I cant actualy do that update till I get a SIM card)20:06
Arifaw20:07
ShadowJKtheir existence seems to have come as a surprise to some developers even20:07
ShadowJKyou can't update without simcard? really?20:07
flipoukWild_Doogy: thanks.20:07
ArifNokia should be more open in what they throw at us20:07
Arif:d20:07
Wild_Doogyyeah, it needs to use the computer, and the windows software gicks out20:07
flipoukArif: the update is reported as being 'minor', no new functionnality20:08
ArifI mean the regional differences20:08
ShadowJKWild_Doogy, do you have ioquake installed?20:08
Wild_Doogyno actualy20:08
shinkamuiI struggled with the update20:08
Wild_DoogyI should20:08
shinkamuifinally got it by killing ovi maps20:08
Wild_Doogy:-D20:08
shinkamuiand then apt-get dist-upgrading20:08
shinkamuiseriously it needs like 50 megs free on root20:09
Wild_Doogyouch20:09
flipoukI am forcing a manual check for update, just in case ...20:09
ArifI just pressed the orange bulb on the desktop...20:09
flipoukArif: well I was expecting to get this thing at some point as well... but it has not showed up20:10
ShadowJKApparently you cant do ota upgrade if ioquake is installed20:10
flipoukargh 'no updates available'20:10
Arifit doesn't add anything itneresting20:10
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Arifyou're not missing out :P20:10
flipoukArif: I guess it correct bugs though20:10
Arifyou should go through all the trouble when 1.2 comes out20:11
Arif=D20:11
flipoukArif: agreed20:11
ArifOR if Sygic finally gets released and you really want it...20:11
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Arifbut somehow I think that won't happen very soon20:12
flipoukArif: what is Sygic?20:12
Arifnavigation software20:12
flipoukok thx20:12
Arifeveryone's complaining the N900 can't say out loud you need to drive into a tree20:12
Arif:D20:12
flipouk;-)20:13
ShadowJKflipouk, it'd be interesting to see the output of: dpkg -l | grep maemo-fremantle20:13
Wild_DoogyI assume that there is an Ubuntu updater for the N900. anyone know where it is to be found?20:13
acidjazzwhere can i read about the latest maemo update20:13
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javispedroon this channel's topic.,20:13
ShadowJKtablets-dev.nokia.com beware that "updating" with PC actually overwrites20:13
flipoukShadowJK: hang on...20:13
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acidjazzgod i have like nothing installed "not enough memory to upgrade"20:14
Arifmy only gripe with the device now is the bug I reported and no built in bluetooth sending :D20:14
ShadowJKthe reason it says use pc is because something you installed conflicts20:14
Wild_Doogyoh?20:14
* Arif wonders if there's a way to request a feature in petrovich...20:15
acidjazzjavispedro: which part of hte topic theres 80 urls20:15
Wild_Doogyso the computer will then force the update, killing whatever is in the way20:15
flipoukShadowJK: dpkg -l | grep maemo-fremantle doesn't return anything on my N900 ...20:15
javispedroacidjazz: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.120:15
acidjazzgraci20:16
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ShadowJKflipouk: so somehow you've ended up removing it I think...20:16
acidjazzive freed up like 200mb still nto enough room20:17
flipoukDon't tell me you need Windows to do a firmware upgrade!!!! :-(20:17
ShadowJKwhat happens if you try apt-get install maemo-fremantle-generic-pr20:17
ShadowJKacidjazz: space on /: df -h /20:17
flipoukShadowJK: hang on I try...20:17
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javispedrowow, there have been like a shitload of "open device" announcements20:18
javispedronow this http://www.openpeak.com/OpenTablet7.php20:19
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javispedrotoshiba also is shipping some kind of 7-8''ish tablet, I found it at a shop yesterday!20:19
ShadowJKacidjazz, disable extras-testing and extras-devel. just having them enabled consumes lots of space20:19
Wild_Doogylooks like Apple and thier "this software is closed, and sucks to be you" might be on a decline20:19
acidjazzShadowJK: ugh 33.6mb20:19
flipoukShadowJK: it can't find the package20:19
acidjazzShadowJK: ok20:20
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flipoukShadowJK: I attempt a apt-get update20:20
ShadowJKoops20:21
acidjazzthe phones has f'ing 32gb's when is it going to fix this20:21
ShadowJKI was wrong, it's mp-fremantle-genric-pr20:21
ShadowJKnot maemo-...20:21
flipoukShadowJK: ok20:21
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Wild_Doogylooks like battery-eye may have made it out of extras-devel20:22
Wild_Doogyits called battery graph20:22
flipoukapt-cache search mp-fremantle-generic-pr doesn't return anything20:22
flipoukeven after apt-get update20:22
flipoukapt-cache search mp-fremantle returns:20:23
flipoukmp-fremantle-203-pr20:23
flipoukShadowJK: do you reckon I shall install mp-fremantle-203-pr?20:23
ShadowJKis it installed?20:24
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flipoukShadowJK: yes20:24
flipoukdpkg -l | grep mp-freman20:24
flipoukii  mp-fremantle-203-pr                                 2.2009.51-1.203.220:24
ShadowJKah ok20:24
* ShadowJK wonders what 203 is20:25
* ShadowJK pings timeless_mbp 20:25
timeless_mbppong20:25
timeless_mbpengland iirc20:25
mtnbkrShadowJK: I am in the same boat as acidjazz... I have about 37MB free on / and have disabled just about all the catalogs in the app manager... is there a (simple) way to see what apps are installed that are not "optified"20:25
mtnbkror are taking up space on /20:25
timeless_mbpif it isn't England, it might be a vendor in England20:26
flipoukShadowJK: '203' stands for England?20:26
flipouktimeless_mbp: ok20:26
nidO203 is the uk unbranded version20:26
timeless_mbpwhy ask me? :)20:26
nidO205 is uk vodafone network20:26
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timeless_mbpbtw people should replace their 20x with a normal non England version20:27
timeless_mbpthey'll get faster updates20:27
timeless_mbpand less poorly tested variant crud20:27
nidOor nokia could just release them with the rest of the world20:27
nidOor at least explain why they feel the need to delay it20:27
flipouknidO: ok this makes sense, I bought my N900 directly from Nokia UK, in Regent Street, London20:27
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ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, I pinged you because I had a memory of you trying to figure out thee story behind the regional variants20:28
timeless_mbpnidO: the reason is that the variants are created by a group of people who barely exist20:28
nidOso why does nokia create them in the first place?20:28
timeless_mbpand are terrible at communicating which version they want to publish20:28
timeless_mbpnidO: well20:28
timeless_mbpfirst you create the baseline20:28
nidO203 is the *UNBRANDED* uk version, sold by nokia themselves20:28
timeless_mbpthen you create the basic england variant20:28
timeless_mbpthen you work with the operator to derive a variant from your england baseline20:28
nidOno.20:29
nidOread.20:29
Arifwhy do the Brits need their own version :P20:29
nidO203 isnt an operater variant20:29
timeless_mbpthe england variant enables the variants team to test variants20:29
timeless_mbpnidO: it's still a variant20:29
nidOits totally unbranded, unrelated to operators20:29
timeless_mbpin that there's a "variants team"20:29
nidObut its only a variant because nokia choose to make it one.20:29
X-FadeArif: Other regulations for instance.20:29
timeless_mbpwhich is responsible for producing both it and the normal operator variants20:29
nidOthey made it a variant for no good reason, and no arent updating it.20:29
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timeless_mbpnidO: oh, it's useful20:29
Arifcan't you just put those settings in the selected region?20:30
nidOif they make the variant and apply it on english phones they sell, it's their responsibility to keep it up to date with the rest of the world as well20:30
timeless_mbphow else would we know that we can or can't make a variant for an operator? :)20:30
X-FadenidO: UK has other rules for FM transmitter iirc. Things like that differ.20:30
timeless_mbpyou have to test this stuff somehow20:30
timeless_mbpnidO: so complain to nokia care20:30
nidOpotential differences between the uk and global firmware have been investigated to death by uk users20:30
nidOand there's no discernable difference20:30
timeless_mbpand get your british friends to complain too20:30
nidObeen there, done that20:31
X-FadenidO: Then just install generic?20:31
timeless_mbpnidO: i certainly don't know of any useful difference20:31
timeless_mbpbut you really should just install generic20:31
Triztdamn upgrade broke my volume button, it works just for a while after reboot20:31
timeless_mbpi've said that repeatedly20:31
nidOI have, but the fact remains that there's no logic in nokia selling nokia phones with a variant firmware that's only used for phones sold by nokia in one country, and nokia then doesnt update it, virtually forcing users to have to potentially void their phone's warranty by flashing to a different firmware.20:32
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timeless_mbpi'm pretty certain flashing firmware doesn't void the warranty20:32
X-FadenidO: It does get updated, it is just a different team. Working a bit slower ;)20:32
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timeless_mbpbut i won't argue that it isn't stupid20:32
nidOyou'd think it wouldnt20:32
nidOnokia care thinks it does20:32
timeless_mbpso complain to ari20:33
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timeless_mbphe has a public blog20:33
nidOdespite it being a nokia firmware flashed using a nokia tool to a nokia device20:33
timeless_mbpflame him20:33
* Trizt had to flash his girlfriends phone as the one sold in sweden didn't support traditional Chinese20:33
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ensihello, anyone know how to categorize a project in "trove software mape". the email says to go to "project page and select 'Project Admin'" which doesn't exist20:33
timeless_mbpit's worth noting that nokia care is not perfect20:33
timeless_mbpi've caught them screwing up20:33
nidOI noticed.20:33
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timeless_mbpwhen they mess up:20:34
timeless_mbp1. document it20:34
timeless_mbp2. demand to speak to a manager20:34
timeless_mbp3. document it20:34
javispedrotimeless: oh, that will get handy for me soon, when I get my n900 back.20:34
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flipoukok so it is just a matter of waiting a little bit. no big deal. thanks guys20:37
timeless_mbpflipouk: please do complain to nokia care20:37
timeless_mbpyou need X people to fill a bucket20:37
timeless_mbpif you fill the bucket (best to overflow), it will get raised faster20:38
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timeless_mbpand people will try to force things to happen faster20:38
flipouktimeless_mbp: well to be honest I don't a good reason to complain so far...20:39
timeless_mbpflipouk: you spent 20mins of our time20:39
timeless_mbpdo us a favor and spend 10mins of nokia care's time20:39
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nidOflipouk it's also worth noting that this delayed update is minor and doesnt really bring much - when the 1.2 update gets delayed by 1/2/3/4 days/weeks/months for your firmware it's going to hurt more20:40
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timeless_mbp9yeah20:41
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timeless_mbpyou really should take this as an opportunity to try to grease the wheels for the next one20:41
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flipouktimeless_mbp: do you think that it's a big problem to get an update a littli bit late?20:41
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timeless_mbpconsider that sometimes it's a security update20:42
timeless_mbpbecause e.g. your web browser is exploitable20:42
timeless_mbpif you don't care about the data on your device, then that's fine20:42
flipouktimeless_mbp: you have a point...20:42
timeless_mbp:)20:43
nidOfrom a joe home user standpoint as well though flipouk, the 1.2 update will also bring qt4.6 which will ultimately = significant functionality improvements in the form of tons more extra software20:43
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nidOnone of which will be usable without the update20:43
timeless_mbpthat won't install on pre 1.2 :)20:43
* Arkenoi wonders if DataViz is going to release a full editor version of DtG20:43
flipoukok. let's find out how to contact nokia care then...20:44
ruskiecat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02cache20:44
ruskieDir::Cache::archives "/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/";20:44
ruskieadding that helps with apt-get still having room on /20:44
ruskie:)20:44
ruskieI do wonder why nokia doesn't do that by default20:44
mtnbkrok, I am confused.   /opt is not mounted separately. df -h shows / has 39.5M free.   du -h /opt/rovio shows 18.5M   - remove angry birds via app mgr and  /opt/rovio is now gone,  but now  df -h shows 39.0M free    makes no sense  any ideas?20:45
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ruskiemtnbkr, /opt is a symlink to /home/opt20:45
timeless_mbpruskie: i think we will for .next20:45
timeless_mbpnot certain, ask konttori tomorrow20:45
ruskieso unless /home is mounted everything will get put on /20:46
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mtnbkrruskie: Jesus Christ, I am retarded.  I forgot to look for that,... sigh... thanks <facepalms>20:46
mtnbkrwas working quickyl from slide out k/b before sshing in... much better now.   but I am still unable to get ~50M free on /  for update20:47
ruskiemtnbkr, first do: apt-get clean20:48
ruskiethen edit: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02cache20:48
ruskieand put in: Dir::Cache::archives "/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/";20:48
ruskiethat will certainly help with apt :)20:48
simoneb_mtnbkr: i found a script on the forums to check which packages take the most of rootfs. i've found out that the bigger for me were angry birds, aisleriot and wikihow. you could give it a try20:48
mtnbkrruskie: does that help the app manager (which I believe to be using apt in the bavckground)20:48
ruskieham actually already puts things into: /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/20:49
ruskiestill apt-get clean might help you out a bit20:49
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mtnbkrsimoneb_:   heh  I just deleted angry birds and then more space was used on /   very strange.    apt-get clean got my up to 40.2M though20:49
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simoneb_mtnbkr: removed every repo except the first 3?20:50
simoneb_mtnbkr: cleared .debs in dpkg's cache?20:50
ruskieyou only really need: ssu/apps and ssu/mr020:50
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X-Fademtnbkr: And reboot your device, can help too.20:50
acidjazzlol what are these frenzy games20:50
acidjazzare they wack20:50
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mtnbkrsimoneb_: yep... only 1st two repos enabled right now20:51
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mtnbkrsimoneb_: being a gentoo user, debian's apt and dpkg stuff is a little new to me... how, where are these .debs20:52
ruskieapt-get clean should have cleaned those out20:52
simoneb_mtnbkr: uhm... should be /var/cache/apt iirc20:52
greenfly/var/cache/apt/archives/20:52
mtnbkrlol just removed the "maemo tools" catalog and am back down to 39.9M   heh20:53
mtnbkrsimoneb_  greenfly  thanks... will check there too20:53
ruskiemtnbkr, do you have /home mounted?20:53
greenflybut that will only come into play if you had fun with apt-get on the command line20:53
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mtnbkrgreenfly: I think I only apt-got one or maybe two packages so far.20:54
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mtnbkrnothing in /var/cache/apt/archives/ except lock file and empty "partial"  dir20:54
greenflythen don't worry about it20:54
ruskieapt-get clean cleaned that out for you :)20:54
greenflyother culprits: unused themes in /usr/share/themes/20:55
mtnbkryep20:55
greenflyabiword20:55
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Arifbah20:55
greenflyother -devel packages20:55
Arifkmplayer really sucks20:55
mtnbkrahh I bet themes is the one... I have a couple installed I think20:55
simoneb_mtnbkr: i used those scripts to check for non-optified packages http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=500101&postcount=720:55
* cehteh still figuring out how to solve lvl15 in angry birds with more than 60k points ...20:55
ruskieArif, better then sib20:55
ArifI'm trying that one now20:55
ArifKMPlayer likes to just stop playing media if you go do something else :P20:56
ruskiehmm used to keep playing for me20:56
* X-Fade saw a TV ad for the N900 on one of our major channels.20:56
andre__uh?20:57
ruskie?20:57
X-FadeYesterday too.20:57
Arifwhere are you?20:57
X-FadeNL20:57
Arifwas it before/after RTL boulevard? :P20:58
X-FadeArif: yes.20:58
Arifyou should find something better to watch :P20:58
X-FadeArif: Research of course :)20:59
* Arif doesn't have Dutch channels himself :p20:59
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Arifonly TMobile web 'n walk tv20:59
X-FadeArif: And how did you know about it then :D20:59
Arifsomeone told me :O20:59
Arif"I saw your phone on RTL"20:59
X-FadeSure..20:59
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Arifand I read it on tweakers :P21:00
mtnbkrcehteh: I wonder if my angry birds scores are gone since I removed AB  I see no .angrybirds or .rovio dir in my ~/  nor my ~/MyDocs   :(21:00
X-Fademtnbkr: reflash == scores gone.21:00
satmdtry ~/.config and ~/.local, too21:02
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mtnbkrsatmd:  :(  only wormux and some other stuff inthere (and I already removed wormux app)   That means I need to replay all my AB levels. :)21:04
satmd:)21:05
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ruskiemtnbkr, do: apt-get remove wormux-data21:07
* ruskie hates HAM... can we get a NORMAL apt frontend aready21:07
arachnistwhy a front end?21:08
arachnistfrontend*21:08
cehtehyes, yum for meego :P21:08
ruskiearachnist, because there are "normal" people that use it :)21:08
arachnistorly? ;)21:09
ruskiecehteh, yum or apt-get... doesn't really matter21:10
ruskiewhen it comes to binary they all suck anyway :)21:10
arachnistwell21:11
arachnistat least rpm spec files are not a hell to write21:11
ruskiehaven't really tried21:11
arachnisti've written/modified quite a few21:11
ruskiebut if it's any better then the hack ad infinitum that are debian packages it's probably easier21:12
* cehteh notes nixos ...21:13
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RST38hSupercover Insurance is alleging that many iPhone owners are deliberately smashing their devices and filing false claims in order to upgrade to the latest model. The gadget insurance company told Sky News Sunday that it saw a 50-percent rise in claims during the month Apple launched the latest version, the iPhone 3GS.'21:16
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javispedroand of course the insurance companies are at fault here.21:17
javispedrohalf life on a iphone-like device: 6 months21:17
javispedros/on/of21:17
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RST38hjavispedro: N900 included?21:17
javispedrodefinitely21:17
ruskielol21:18
RST38hjavispedro: depressive21:18
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mtnbkrsimoneb_:  BAM  ->> perl -I. checkpkgs.pl    6564adobe-flashplayer   6M sheesh21:19
ruskielol21:20
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mtnbkr...and I. HATE. FLASH.21:20
Xisdibik_n900hater!21:20
ruskierootfs 227.8M 196.6M 27.0M 88% /  <-- and I've removed a ton of things21:20
javispedrodpkg --purge to the rescue21:20
ruskieamong them flash, mediaplayer and a ton of others21:21
ruskiemtnbkr, btw have any custom boot videos?21:21
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mtnbkrI am apt-get removing it... (at least for now)21:21
mtnbkrruskie: nope21:21
javispedro       249.5M    144.2M    105.3M  58% sometimes I think I'm just deadly lucky.21:21
RST38hoh really?21:21
RST38hall repos disabled, no apps?21:21
Xisdibik_n900you are javispedro!21:21
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ruskiejavispedro, lol... I at a time had 180 free I think :)21:21
RST38hor have you moved stuff to the memory card?21:21
javispedrono, I'm lying.21:22
javispedrothis is n810 :(21:22
javispedrothe dangers of ssh.21:22
ruskiebut since n900 requires stuff from /usr I can't do that anymore21:22
Wild_Doogyapt-get --purge removed all installed programs?21:22
Wild_Doogy:-D21:22
Wild_Doogy*removes21:23
ruskienope21:23
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ruskiejust removes any cruft left behind21:23
zashconfig files and such21:23
adeusthat does nothing21:23
adeuswithout a package21:23
Wild_Doogydoes the n810 have a larger rootfs?21:24
ruskieiirc it has SD cards only21:25
ruskieor does it?21:25
mtnbkrlol   http://pastebin.ca/1800390   I guess it is easier to just temporarily move the libflashplayer.so file to /home/user, update then move it back.. hah21:25
javispedroruskie: see my df -h line, it seems to have a slightly larger rootfs (probably due to less jffs2 overhead)21:25
ShadowJKN810 has same root size as N900. N810 however has no /opt21:26
ruskiewell n900 uses ubifs21:26
javispedroyeah, that's what I mean. less jffs2 overhead when compared to ubifs21:27
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simoneb_i've noticed that the n900 uses a 64kb block size or it's me?21:27
* mtnbkr wonders why storage space is always so limited on devices... isn;t flash mem cheap yet. 21:28
javispedroraw nand isn't cheap seems.21:28
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simoneb_in italy, we'll soon have a tax for that.21:31
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simoneb_was around 0.80€ per GB or so. it doesn't apply to mobile phones and mp3 players (for now)21:32
ruskiesimoneb_, you mean "pirate" tax21:32
ruskiewe've had that for a while21:32
ruskieand a few others as well21:32
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simoneb_ruskie: really? where?21:32
ruskieright side of italy :)21:33
ruskiesmall little country :)21:33
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simoneb_like in croatia... or like in predappio?21:34
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ruskiecroatia is small ???21:34
RST38hdepends on what you compare it with21:34
ruskieyou sure you're looking at the right map ? ;)21:34
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ruskieit's stuck between Italy, Austria, Hungary and Croatia21:35
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simoneb_slovenia?21:35
ruskiebingo21:35
ruskieI did say small :)21:36
simoneb_not that croatia is that bigger :P21:36
* simoneb_ dinner21:36
ruskie20000 km^2 vs 56000 km^221:37
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Proteouswifi bug seemes to be fixed for me21:37
Proteouswoot, no more rebboting after using wifi21:37
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mtnbkrsweet!  update went fine, re-installed Angry birds and my scores are all there. :)21:46
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slonopotamusso.21:57
luke-jrso no u21:57
slonopotamushow i do that your 'optification'?21:57
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wazd"you have been unsubscribed from the Meego-Dev mailing list"21:58
wazdthank god :)21:58
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* RST38h moos at wazd for not unchecking that box in his meego profile to begin with21:59
RST38hwazd: how is iTheme? =)21:59
inzwazd, the list should be renamed to rpm-vs-deb21:59
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wazdRST38h: well, currently I have to do something for money quickly :D22:01
ToiletOilwth. I edited the files in /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/html/, but the edits persist even after I've restored them to the originals22:01
wazdRST38h: cause I really want to eat :)22:01
RST38hwazd: figured things out with Roman?22:01
wazdRST38h: nope22:02
wazdRST38h: whatever22:02
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RST38hwazd: I am not getting why it shouldbe so difficult :)22:02
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wazdRST38h: me too actually :)22:03
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RST38hwazd: Will go to US on march 4th and *ask* =)22:04
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javispedroeven if you choose "digest" at the subscription form, I'm getting 20 or 30 digests _per day_22:05
javispedroI wonder if it said "hourly digest" somewhere.22:05
wazdRST38h: but anyway, all that delays blew up my budget a bit :)22:05
RST38hjavispedro: did I tell you how I hate mailing lists? :)22:05
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RST38hwazd: I think we have to organize it differently22:05
javispedroRST38h: I'm just waiting for gmane to subscribe to it (sent email already)22:05
wazdjavispedro: seriously, MeeGo-Dev is currently a spam generator :)22:06
ArkenoiIs there a way to switch keyboard layouts in easydebian applications?22:06
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javispedroyes, I'm worried that gmane staff may deduce it's a spam list >:)22:06
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RST38hjavispedro: I would unsubscribe and wait for archives to become available on the web22:07
SWFu64Anyone have their update yet in the UK?22:07
SWFu64Still nothing here22:07
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SpeedEvilSWFu64: nothing here too. (uk)22:08
SpeedEvil(though I last tried a couple of hours ago)22:08
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SWFu64Nothing as of about 30 seconds either22:09
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil: you still have the uk firmware?22:14
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wazdwow22:15
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wazdnow that's cool22:15
wazdWindows 7 uses taskbar glow according to the icon color22:15
SpeedEvilShadowJK: ?22:16
javispedro"MeeGo-dev Digest, Vol 1, Issue 36". sigh.22:16
javispedro36 times today.22:16
wazdseriously, wow!22:16
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javispedrowazd: yes, but they had to fix the "autodetection" for some of the builtin apps =)22:16
El_Angelowazd: wtf do we care about win7?22:16
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: apparently the unknown people who do the castration, erm, variants havent done anything yet22:16
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wazdEl_Angelo: I don't know why you care :)22:17
dassuDoes n900 automatically save location information to the pictures?22:18
wazdjavispedro: seriously, that doesn't look like microsoft at all. Such a subliminal move22:18
javispedrowazd: I remember they advertised that well on the first w7 days22:18
SpeedEvildassu: if you ask it to22:18
wazdjavispedro: oh :)22:18
javispedrowazd: it all looks very appleish to me22:18
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javispedrowazd: in fact I kept seeing the first os x dock with their uniform color per each dock item22:19
javispedro(those were not "autodetected" but hardcodec iirc)22:19
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wazdjavispedro: pidgin has purple glow! wow! :D22:20
javispedrohehe22:21
javispedrothey had to hardcode the wmp color.22:21
javispedroor the cpanel one, I don't remember.22:21
dassuSpeedEvil: what is the default value?22:21
SpeedEvildassu: I don't remember.22:21
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Pgrodtcan anyone help me get locate (or slocate or mlocate) installed? it complains about busybox's findutils package.22:24
dassuSpeedEvil: But "exiv2 pr" should show the values if it was there ? In other words: The geodata is saved in the exif ?22:25
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SpeedEvildassu: if it's there at all22:26
dassucool :)22:26
dassuWell, I ended up doing exiv2 rm just in case22:26
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SpeedEvilhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4259431966/meta/22:27
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slonopotamuswhere i find docs on optification?22:29
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t-tanPgrodt: if you're talking about my findutils-gnu package, I'm about to upload a new version22:29
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hrwmorning22:30
Pgrodtt-tan: i briefly saw the existence of it, but didnt try installing it, since i wasnt sure if it was what i needed.22:31
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t-tanPgrodt: the locate package of it is completely untested and probably not good for battery life when updatedb runs22:32
simoneb_slonopotamus: what kind of docs?22:33
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slonopotamussimoneb_, on its usage22:35
slonopotamus...22:35
slonopotamustex-common cannot poostinst in sb.22:35
slonopotamushave workaround?22:35
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simoneb_slonopotamus: i think there is no "usage" for optification. optification means that most/all of a package should stand in /opt, so, as a developer you should take care to place every file in /opt, and use references to there in your code22:36
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lcukslonopotamus, gitorious maemo-optify has a writeup22:37
slonopotamussimoneb_, there's maemo-optify package that somehow hellps with this22:37
slonopotamuslcuk, k22:37
Pgrodtt-tan: presuming its just done through cron, i just intended to remove the job and call updatedb manually as needed.22:38
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Jef91So, I am trying to install the latest maemo update22:48
Jef91and it keeps telling me there is not enough space in my target location22:48
Jef91my rootfs has more space open than the update requires22:48
woglindere22:49
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Arnoldthebatjef, remove extras development etc22:49
Arnoldthebatto free up rootfs22:49
Jef91My root fs has 30megs open22:49
Jef91the update is 16 megs22:49
Jef91how many does it need?...22:49
nidOneeds 4322:49
woglindeapt-get purge mught help22:49
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Arnoldthebatdont work like that22:49
woglindejef packaged22:49
Jef91ahh gay22:50
valdynJef91: its 16 + unpacked packages, not just 1622:50
Arnoldthebat40 plus needed22:50
woglindeunpacked it will be more22:50
Jef91Fucking Nokia22:50
_andyanyone had luck resizing the root partition with parted?22:50
Arnoldthebatniiice22:50
RST38hin what position?22:50
RST38handy: Sorry, but why would you resize root partition?22:50
woglinde_andy why?22:50
RST38hYou cannot make it much bigger and it makes no sense to make it even smaller22:50
woglindeoptif is running quiet well22:50
_andywoglinde: so that they didn't have to micromanage drive space on it in order to install a nokia update :P22:50
Jef91RST38h because it is retarded being only 256 egs?22:50
nidOgot a better solution?22:51
woglindejef91 which is enough for most stuff22:51
RST38hJef: No, I asked in what position you were fucking Nokia22:51
_andysymlinking to a seperate device is messy..22:51
Pgrodtits retarded....but fast! ;)22:51
valdyn_andy: symlinks are messy? how?22:51
valdyn_andy: would bind mounts make you happy?22:51
hrwPreparing to replace mp-fremantle-generic-pr 2.2009.51-1.hrw0 (using .../mp-fremantle-generic-pr_3.2010.02-8.hrw1_all.deb) ...22:51
hrwso users of my modest build are able to upgrade to pr1.1.122:52
_andyvaldyn: no.. i suppose just when they break it can be confusing.22:52
ShadowJKpython uses bind mounts ;-)22:52
RST38hhrw: that is your own version of metaupdate that includes modest fixes?22:52
RST38hoh ok22:52
ShadowJKJef91, disable extras-testing and extras-devel. Having them enabled uses about 20megs.22:52
woglinderun apt-get clean22:53
RST38hShadowJK: Actually, the master hint is to remove libqt422:53
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ShadowJK_andy, the device is 256megs big. I believe it's a 256/256 chip, and probably the biggest one available (in volume) at the time N900 was designed?22:53
RST38hShadowJK: And use apt-get to update, as it shows more information about the failure22:53
GeneralAntillesSo, did anybody poke the new apt sources to figure out what Nokia broke for PR1.1.1?22:53
ShadowJKRST38h, that removes maemo-fremantle-pr ?22:53
RST38hGeneral: Or, better, use the old apt binary to leech commercial stuff =)22:54
_andyShadowJK. oh.. i se..22:54
* RST38h hehes22:54
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, that was my thought.22:54
GeneralAntillesRST38h, watching Nokia try to secure this stuff is pathetic.22:54
RST38hShadowJK: well, looks like maemo-fremantle-pr (new one) has some problems with certain qt4 installations, they have to be manually purged22:55
ShadowJKSo can't they do per-device authentication with the magic used for the nokia binaries..22:55
RST38hGeneral: To think of it, you can probably access stuff with firefox :)22:55
GeneralAntillesRST38h, also likely.22:55
RST38hGeneral: But yes, they definitely need a guy who understands what he is doing. Whoever is doing systems design for Ovi right now is not up to the task22:55
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_andyso is there going to be MeeGo firmware?22:57
_andy(not trolling)22:57
RST38hno.22:57
RST38h(trolling)22:57
hrwRST38h: waiting for pr1.2 to provide newer modest packages22:57
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ShadowJK_andy, if anything meego makes the N900's future look better than it did before22:57
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ShadowJKOfficially, meego changes nothing for N90022:58
RST38hironically, yes22:58
_andyShadowJK: i was just wondering if nokia had announced any plans to push it out to the N900 as a firmware update.22:58
Arkenoihmmm22:58
Arkenoii asked some people to test d2g on the iphone22:59
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ShadowJK_andy, Nope. They hadn't announced any plans for Maemo 6 on N900 either.22:59
Arkenoiseems that they have WAY better implementeation22:59
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Arkenoithat sucks!22:59
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GeneralAntilles_andy, whether Nokia does it or not is fairly irrelevant.22:59
GeneralAntilles_andy, it's going to happen one way or another.22:59
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* ShadowJK 's battery was 10% higher this evening than "normally", placebo effect of 1.1.1 in action23:00
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GeneralAntillesSome power consumption related issues were fixed23:00
Jef91is here a way I can check which packages I have are from devel/using root space?23:00
_andycan i shield my N900 from gamma ray bursts?23:01
Jef91I forget which I took from there...23:01
hrwI think that nokia will not add n900 into meego. community may add it and build/maintain kind of meego/n900 HE23:01
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hrwthis way they do not have to do anything23:02
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pupnik__cough ... mer...23:02
Stskeepspupnik__: i'm pretty much telling people to contribute to meego23:03
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ShadowJKstskeeps: I was thinking earlier that meego makes Mer obsolete in many ways23:06
RST38hNothing prevents Sts from basing nexrt mer on meego23:07
StskeepsShadowJK: i don't mind, it's a fullfilment of most hopes we had and goals.23:07
ShadowJKyeah23:07
slonopotamuserr23:07
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StskeepsShadowJK: it doesn't mean there's no reason to not merge Mer into the project and fight for our ideas and principles, though23:08
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slonopotamusanyone else experiences misbehang clock in sb in virtualbox?23:08
Stskeepsi mean, our build guy is doing meego OBS stuff :)23:08
slonopotamusi just fetched a file in 4658 days.23:08
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jacekowskimaybe it was out of sync when you started it23:09
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slonopotamusno, it happens often23:09
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asj_anyeoine using Nokia Messaging on their N900? is mail actaully being sent?23:09
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ShadowJKStskeeps, I obviously didn't mean "obsoletes" in a bad sense :)23:09
StskeepsShadowJK: i didn't either :)23:10
slonopotamusmake complains aboout clock scew, some files with modification in future...23:10
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valdynasj_: it works fine for "standard" mail providers like google mail, not for most i guess, not for mine23:10
pupnik__how does meego make mer obsolete?  more devices?23:10
asj_valdyn: not working for google for me or wife23:11
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valdynasj_: youre using the web ui to configure it, right?23:12
Stskeepspupnik__: it would be stupid to continue parralell work where we are essentially doing the same.23:12
asj_I haven't used the webui in months23:12
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pwnguinStskeeps: i thought the point was that mer targeted unsupported devices23:13
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valdynasj_: i dont even see a way to set it up on the n90023:13
asj_valdyn: add account it asks right there23:13
Stskeepspwnguin: meego will too.23:13
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valdynasj_: thats a nokia messaging account, not your google account23:13
asj_valdyn: nokia messaging does google via imap23:14
valdynasj_: it does not send via imap23:14
valdynasj_: which is what we are talking about...23:14
valdynasj_: port 465, enable ssl23:14
* asj_ face palms23:14
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Arkenoiasj: do you have both mfe calendar sync and nm email enabled at the same time for the same account?23:14
asj_valdyn: try not to help if you don';t know what you are talking about23:14
valdynasj_: i know very well what im talking about23:15
asj_Arkenoi: for different accounts23:15
asj_valdyn: you don't know NM23:15
pupnik__gut gut23:15
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Arkenoiit is strange then23:15
Arkenoii switched mfe from direct google sync to nuevasync and it fixed the problem23:16
asj_Arkenoi: yeah it's really annoying since it says "sending" then "sent" but it never really goes out23:16
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Arkenoihmm23:16
Arkenoithen it is not that bug i was thinking about23:16
asj_Arkenoi: yeah, I was going to do the same, but I think mfe eats more battery life23:16
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slonopotamusis it a good idea to put libgnomeiu in extras?23:17
t-tanis anybody interested in supporting or contributing to a Debian-MeeGo project (packaging MeeGo components for Debian)?23:17
asj_odd when I went to log into NM web UI it said "you have to change your password"23:17
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manavshello23:19
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* Arif blinks23:20
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pupnik__t-tan: what do you mean?23:22
pupnik__is the rpm stuff set in stone?23:22
ponyofdeathanyone else having issues adding and imaps server to nokia n900?23:22
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ponyofdeathi am getting host/port errors but i know for a fact they are working23:22
t-tanpupnik__: for the MeeGo distribution, yes, but you could implement the MeeGo environment on other real distros23:23
slonopotamusponyofdeath, works ok for me23:24
ponyofdeathslonopotamus: do u have imap over ssl with an self generated cert?23:24
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slonopotamusponyofdeath, yep, exactly23:25
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slonopotamusponyofdeath, modest might require restart between setup and first connect23:26
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satmdI wonder if there's g_serial23:26
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nidOno problems with ssl imap for me either23:28
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slonopotamusponyofdeath, afaik, gmail uses imaps23:29
slonopotamusponyofdeath, if it didn't work, tons of complaints would emerge23:29
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slonopotamusponyofdeath, didn't you mess ssl/tls?23:30
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ponyofdeathslonopotamus: well i even just tried without imaps23:34
ponyofdeathslonopotamus: so ur saying might require restart23:34
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RST38hhmmm. Esmertec just switched Dalvik to JIT23:34
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ArkenoiNM is terrible23:41
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Vanadishai23:56
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Vanadisis there any modification for the unlocking-process?23:57
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Vanadiscurrently, when i'm walking with the phone in my bag, it sometimes unlocks23:57
Vanadisworst thing which happened, was calling a customer -.-23:57
woglindehow should in unlock?23:58
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Vanadismaybe with a gesture (not just a straight line) or a pin23:59
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Ian--people any ideas why i'm not getting the latest update 1.1.1 ? hasn't it been released worldwide yet?23:59
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sportplusbrwww.pt-br.justin.tv/sportplusbr [00:00] NBA: DALLAS MAVERICKS X PHOENIX SUNS23:59
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woglindeIan-- wlan or umts?23:59
Swakinssomebody have used aircrack-ng under maemo5?23:59
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