IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-02-16

ShadowJKjacekowski, I think 1 will needed for OS, 1 for mass storage of user files, leaving none free for memory card00:00
pupnik_cehteh: ability to do rollbacks seems very useful00:00
Stskeepstrbs2: i'm setting up open sourcing queue tomorrow, feel free to start pumping.00:00
ShadowJKIf nokia wants to have / on big drive00:00
ShadowJKin the future00:00
cehtehif you look at nix, deb will look like old dust too :P00:00
jacekowskiShadowJK: that can be shared00:00
jacekowskiShadowJK: OS and storage on same memory00:00
cehtehpupnik: but as i saied i dont know how well it works on small devices00:00
ShadowJKjacekowski, hell no00:00
cehtehthere is some bloat involved00:00
jacekowskiShadowJK: partitioned00:00
trbs2Stskeeps, how exactly do you mean ? putting a list together of things we would like to be opensourced ?00:01
ShadowJKjacekowski, that's fucking slow, just try have gpodder download something on your N900 and you'll discover00:01
pupnik_cehteh: do you find that installing packages with HAM is too slow?  I despise spending 7 minutes with an unusable device because 3 packages got updated00:01
jacekowskiShadowJK: what's slow?00:01
jacekowskiShadowJK: it's just memory that's slow00:01
wolf^pupnik_, it's slow00:01
trbs2Stskeeps, *click* :)00:01
cehtehpupnik: yeah could be better00:01
ShadowJKjacekowski, dude it's MMC, it can't be made not slow...00:02
jacekowskiShadowJK: if you would use really fast memory for system+storage and parition it00:02
ShadowJKAtleast not while keeping vfat00:02
jacekowskiShadowJK: it can00:02
ShadowJKWell nobody makes it in non-slow versions today00:02
cehtehbut ending up with 5 variants of the libc in ram just because one didnt carefuly setup the nix stuff would be devasting for a 256MB device00:02
jacekowskiShadowJK: interface can handle 20MB/s00:02
pupnik_does RPM have to rescan the whole DB with every update like apt-worker does?00:03
jacekowskipupnik_: there is no database00:03
ShadowJKBut the underlying storage still does a 256-kilobyte read-modify-write cycle for the 4K writes that the OS sends it00:03
jacekowskipupnik_: there is no dependencies as such00:03
jacekowskipupnik_: i mean no dependencies solving00:04
wolf^jacekowski, wow! just like dpkg!00:04
pupnik_oh you just hope things work together jacekowski ?00:04
ShadowJKrpm is like dpkg, rpm is not like apt00:04
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ShadowJKdpkg has no dependencies resolving00:04
pupnik_ok, i forgot all redhat stuff00:04
jacekowskiShadowJK: i was planing to leave him with feeling that .deb is superior00:04
wolf^pupnik_, you can't install rpm if dependencies are not met (you can install deb with unmet dependencies)00:05
rangeNo, but apt is like apt and why shouldn't you be able to use that on rpm?00:05
jacekowskiwolf^: you can't00:05
wolf^pupnik_, you have tools, like apt-get, to get the deps for you00:05
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rangejacekowski: You can.00:05
jacekowskiwolf^: unless you use --force-*00:05
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jacekowskiwolf^: and same with rpm00:05
jacekowskiwolf^: you can use force to install it00:05
wolf^jacekowski, deb will install just fine, but won't "configure"00:06
rangeNo need to force it. You can install it, but then it cannot be configured.00:06
jacekowskino it wont'00:06
pupnik_i hope some gurus are consulted for this stuff and not middle-managers00:06
pupnik_meddle-managers :)00:06
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cehtehpupnik: hah .. prolly the middle manager are not even asked, markeing decided00:07
wolf^pupnik_, if maemo would use rpm and the spec files (debian/* equivalent) would be done the right way, there would be no /opt problem00:08
trbs2Stskeeps, subscribed to the thread, will help when/where ever i can00:08
Stskeepstrbs2: thanks00:08
rangejacekowski: Yes, it will:
pupnik_sounds good wolf^00:08
wolf^pupnik_, nokia would define in their sdk proper prefix for all packages and they would be installed to /opt without any modifications00:08
cehtehwolf^: the fucked up partitioning scheme is somethnig completely unrelated00:08
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jacekowskiand spec files are fucked up00:08
jacekowskito be honest only good package manager i've seen is portage00:09
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wolf^spec files are very simple to write, unlike debian/rules00:09
woglindewolf lol00:09
jacekowskiwolf^: you are joking?00:09
wolf^lol indeed00:09
wolf^jacekowski, no, of course not00:09
shdi agree, debian/rules is awful00:09
wolf^debian/* is horror00:09
cehtehi install debian desktops and servers with 128MB rootfs since ages and have not the problems that the n900 has00:09
* pupnik_ patiently awaits some FBSD bombs from 50,000 feet00:09
woglindewolf did you have seen rules files witrh cdbs or debhelper7?00:10
cehtehthats really something nokia failed spectactulary00:10
shddebian packaging is overengineered00:10
wolf^woglinde, not really00:10
wolf^woglinde, just the crap dh_make (?) generated for me00:10
woglindewolf nope00:10
wolf^cehteh, true00:10
pupnik_it's easy enough to optify things with "ar" :)00:11
wolf^woglinde, example spec file:
LiraNunais Maemo dead now?00:12
LiraNunais it called MeeGo?00:12
wolf^woglinde, %prep, %setup, %install, %clean are different build steps00:12
wolf^woglinde, it's really simple00:12
woglindewolf no quilt patches?00:13
woglindeplease go away00:13
wolf^woglinde, no what?00:13
GeneralAntillesLiraNuna, yup,00:13
GeneralAntilleswell, within the next year or two, anyway.00:13
LiraNunabut Intel == x8600:13
pupnik_i would like quilt to go away :(00:13
LiraNunathey'll push Maemo out of ARM00:13
GeneralAntillesLiraNuna, no.00:13
GeneralAntillesLiraNuna, the FAQ says both x86 and ARM devices will be supported.00:13
woglindepupnik you suffer the pain from diff -Naur?00:13
LiraNunahow did Intel agreed for both?00:14
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cehtehyou see in this case intel is the little brother and nokia boss .. i suppose00:14
spencer_need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help:)00:14
pupnik_woglinde: i guess it fills a need for multiple patches00:14
wolf^woglinde, actually, the patches are completly orthohonal from dpkg/rpm00:14
t-tanwolf^: a rules file with debhelper7 looks like this: %: dh ${@}00:14
t-tanwolf^: that's it00:15
sobczyk_the default app manager does not use apt-get?00:15
woglindet-tan psst00:15
Stskeepst-tan: random fact, debhelper5 is latest debhelper in maemo500:15
woglindedont destroy wolf's world00:15
woglindestskeeps we have cdbs00:15
t-tanStskeeps: nope, we have the debhelper7 backport00:15
woglindewolf do you have a example for package-split?00:16
wolf^woglinde, moment00:16
woglindelib dev dbg00:16
spencer_need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help :)  can't get the nokiamp3dec sink to start :(00:16
cehtehok .. unrelated, i am going to make the blinkenlight (notification led) plugin for xchat anyone want to help me and has knowledge about the 'proper' way to enable notification and cancel it in maemo?00:16
wolf^t-tan, how does it look when some special steps needs to be done during for example install stage?00:16
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cehteh(xchat plugin rather than this script hack)00:17
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woglindewolf you have overrides00:17
woglindelet me fish the blogpost from joey hess00:17
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lardmanat least we can be happy that not everything in this world has changed, the Pandora still hasn't been released00:18
* lardman looks through his archived bookmarks00:18
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wolf^woglinde, %package, %description name, %files name00:18
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* ShadowJK nominates lardman for the quote of the day :)00:18
pupnik_   ("Not your grandma's debhelper" - Joey Hess)00:19
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t-tanpupnik: :)00:20
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pupnik_wasn't there a rumor about microsoft office for maemo5?00:26
asj_pupnik_: pass me your crack pipe eh?00:27
wolf^t-tan, it looks much better than that what's in nokia's sdk00:27
wolf^t-tan, still, I'd prefer rpm00:27
ShadowJKpupnik, I think it's office reader for symbian00:28
spencer_need some help on gstreamer on n900 can anyone help :)  can't get the nokiamp3dec sink to start :(00:28
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t-tanwolf^: sure, it's a matter of taste and familiarity - another similar system are the Portfiles...00:28
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jacekowskiin media player00:29
microlithdoes that adflashblock-css actually prevent ads from being downloaded or does it do like Chrome and just hide them after the fact?00:29
jacekowskihow do i go to playlist?00:29
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patrikoakHello, I'm trying to fix a memory problem on my N900, the memory drops into read-only, dmseg says fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain.00:30
lardmanspencer_: you didn't work for Sharp once upon a time did you?00:30
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lardmanspencer_: and re the question, what error do you see?00:30
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spencer_lardman, i think that's the different spencer :P... basically i got an internal negotiation error when i start playing in the nokiamp3dec pipeline... i'll run it again and see what exactly is the error again...00:32
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lardmanspencer_: np :), pastebin the output00:35
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Shapeshifteruhm, how do I write a "1" in dosbox?00:37
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Shapeshifteror any other number?00:37
wolf^Shapeshifter, google for rover.sys00:37
Shapeshifterwolf^: thanks00:38
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KamuiN900does ovimaps not work for directions without data?00:38
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* jacekowski = N900: Nightwish - Dark Chest of Wonders00:40
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Lumpio-Gee, thanks for letting us know00:41
pupnik_1080p projectors is real nice to have00:41
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: I don't see the point in this "one SD-interface dedicated for /" idea00:42
DocScrutinizershit, scratch that00:43
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GeneralAntillesOh, man, I need a pano background of this.
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t-tanwolf^: for your qt* upgrade question: you can use --get/set-selections and the -O flag00:45
lardmanah, the wonders of tabbed file browsing00:45
lardmanKDE is not so bad00:45
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BalSak1hi guys. I'm pretty new to maemo, so please excuse my ignorance00:46
sobczyk_how to enable exdtras-devel with apt-get?00:46
BalSak1where can I get an ISO or an image of maemo that I can use to load on my netbook (via SD card)00:46
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BalSak1sobczyk_: possibly mod your /etc/apt/sources.list?00:47
GeneralAntillesBalSak1, Maemo really only boots on Maemo devices.00:47
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GeneralAntillesBalSak1, or devices with very similar hardware.00:47
GeneralAntillesWhat, exactly, are you after?00:47
GeneralAntillesA development environment?00:47
BalSak1GeneralAntilles: are they not x86-based?00:47
GeneralAntillesOr do you just want to run Maemo on your netbook?00:47
GeneralAntillesNo, Maemo 5 targets OMAP3.00:47
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GeneralAntillesCertain packages are compiled for x86 for use in the SDK.00:48
BalSak1I want to test maemo. I run other distro's like moblin, android & jolicloud quite OK on it, & I'd really like to test maemo00:48
Lumpio-The official SDK doesn't really use virtual machines or emulation or stuff00:48
Lumpio-But natively compiled packages.00:48
GeneralAntillesBalSak1, well, you have two options.00:49
BalSak1so, what? can I use the SDK to build an image that I can dd to an SD card & lod it that way?00:49
GeneralAntillesThe SDK, which is really only vaguely similar to the actually Maemo experience00:49
GeneralAntillesOr Mer which is more similar in some ways but more different in others.00:49
sobczyk_BalSis extra-devel risky?00:49
GeneralAntillesThe SDK will give you a testing environment that sort of looks mostly like Maemo.00:49
sobczyk_is extra-devel risky?00:49
BalSak1sobczyk_: noidea, sorry00:50
pupnik_depends on your linux knowledge sobczyk_00:50
kynkysobczyk_, if you have to ask, then the answer is  yes00:50
sobczyk_pupnik_, moderate, bbe on gentoo fo a while, but not a genius :)00:50
BalSak1GeneralAntilles: thanks. I think I'll try Mer, since I'm not inclined to muck around with compiles & such00:50
GeneralAntillesBalSak1, well, the SDK doesn't inolve compiling if you want to test.00:51
GeneralAntillesBalSak1, but the goodnews is that Maemo and Moblin merged into MeeGo today which will run just fine on your netbook in about 6-12 months. ;)00:51
pupnik_sobczyk_: if you can survive messing around with your desktop linux, you can survive -devel00:51
pupnik_ keep a close eye on your root partition, don't let it fill up00:52
BalSak1GeneralAntilles: yea, I jsut saw that, which let me to reconsider maemo again. I'd really like to try it out for myself before it merges, & besides, the 1st release is still quite some way off, AFAIK00:52
sobczyk_I'll try apt-pinning, I don't want everything unstable00:52
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: but isn't guaranteed to run on N900 AIUI00:53
pupnik_you can temporarily enable -devel just for a package or two00:53
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, yeah, I think that's still up in the air even internally.00:53
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, however, whether Nokia ships support or not seems much less relevant with MeeGo.00:54
sobczyk_pupnik_, yeah great idea too00:54
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: given the statement "maemo apps will run on MeeGo", I just don't like to see maemo5 won't benefit from all the app development for MeeGo00:56
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GeneralAntillesQt 4.6 on both platforms00:56
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: ... if we were left with maemo5 (6?) on N900, whole the MeeGo train rides on00:56
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: GeneralAntilles: ... if we were left with maemo5 (6?) on N900, while the MeeGo train rides on00:57
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wiretappeddeb vs rpm vs dontcare poll:
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sobczyk_wheres the del key mapped?01:01
frals~curse error-unspecified01:01
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, error-unspecified !01:01
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fralsMMSC RESPONDED: {'Message-ID': '', 'MMS-Version': '1.0', 'Response-Status': 'Error-unspecified'}01:01
fralsbest error message :<01:01
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sandmanWhy the hell did they choose RPM! (sorry, needed to say it)01:04
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lardmanhmm, is there a desktop email widget?01:04
ShadowJKSo that they wouldn't have to switch back to deb again01:05
t-tansandman: to get rid of Maemo5 apps, Debian ARM know-how and open-source loving Debian fans01:05
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KamuiN900lardman: conversations kind of01:05
lardmandoes that do email?01:06
KamuiN900convo desktop widget i mean01:06
w00tfrals: I've seen worse01:06
w00t"error: everything fine!"01:06
KamuiN900tells you new mail vs unopened01:06
fralsw00t: hehe, loving how i sent the exact same message 20seconds later and it accepted it... >_<01:06
sandmant-tan: guess so. I hope they change their mind01:06
lardmanhmm, am really after a desktop app like the one on Win Mobile HTC something, which presents emails and allows you to scroll through like pieces of paper01:06
Stskeepst-tan: arent  most debian arm guys at nokia anyway?01:06
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sandmanI understand the merge but not the rpm.. shit...01:07
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sandmanStskeeps: Do you have any insights? I see you op at #meego.. how big is the chance of .deb in meego?01:10
lardmanhmm, that conversations inbox doesn't allow you to scroll, you have to sit and wait01:10
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ShadowJKsandman, any "efforts" based on feeling alone: nil01:11
t-tanStskeeps: I have no idea. their email adresses don't like @nokia01:11
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* sandman starts digging a hole01:11
jacekowskisandman: meego was designed for .rpm01:11
t-tansandman: I think it was a political decision, not based on technical considerations01:11
wiretappedR.I.P. maemo
ShadowJKThe switch to RPM probably happend quite some time ago?01:12
jacekowskiwhat's wrong with maemo?01:12
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sandmant-tan: guess so01:12
t-tanjacekowski: how can you design a distribution for a specific package format??01:12
jacekowskiit comes with rpm by default01:12
jacekowskithat's all01:12
t-tanMoblin switched from .deb to .rpm last year01:12
jacekowskireplacing package manager is ussualy a problem01:12
javispedroMoblin switched from basing on Ubuntu to Fedora.01:13
jacekowskibecause it breaks compatibility01:13
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KamuiN900thought of one possible rpm advantage01:13
KamuiN900the only one01:13
pupnik_fatalsaint makes a good point about rpm distros non-compliance01:13
KamuiN900you can vhange the installation root01:13
t-tanthe claimed that rpm would be better suited for proprietary software01:13
Stskeepsjavispedro: after basing for a year on ubuntu; i can see why they might have01:14
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, that one made me a bit misty eyed.01:14
KamuiN900so no worries on installation of non optified packages01:14
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t-tanmaybe Ubuntu's release cycle was to fast for them?01:14
woglinde_t-tan *g*01:15
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javispedroKamuiN900: dpkg --root? But that doesn't take care of putting binaries in path, etc.01:15
ShadowJKfedora has 6 month cycle..01:15
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sandmanif they have based on Ubuntu before then it should not be a problem to go back.. especially when they merge Maemo01:15
KamuiN900javispedro: you demolished my theory01:16
ShadowJKI think it's just a divide between nokia and intel, intel is better at the lower level stuff, and nokia is better at the UI stuff, so they decided to take UI from Nokia and base system from Intel01:16
javispedrothus firing the entire nokia lower stuff staff and the entire intel higher stuff staff? /me wonders01:17
t-tansandman: true. AFAIK Ubuntu's netbook remix is a Moblin 2 implementation01:18
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ShadowJK"From what I understand from [1], the the thing I'll miss most will be X11." "[1]"01:18
ShadowJKoh dear01:18
ShadowJKI hope X11 wont disappear01:18
ShadowJKhow will I run xchat without X11 :/01:18
microlithI'd hate to be forced to use Qt01:19
t-tanmaybe the maemo community should try to port the Maemo components to Ubuntu?01:19
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TheNerdTVScream: LOL IM A HAXXOR01:19
TheNerdTVScream: LOL IM A HAXXOR01:19
TheNerdTVScream: LOL IM A HAXXOR01:19
TheNerdTVScream: LOL IM A HAXXOR01:19
TheNerdTVScream: LOL IM A HAXXOR01:19
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lardmanwhat, where's X11 going?01:19
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t-tanmicrolith: they'll continue Gtk support01:19
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lardmanI wonder who scream is?01:20
ml-mobilet-tan: not if they ditch X and do that Qt framebuffer crap01:20
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lardmanI can't see going back to that really01:20
lardmanmade porting apps a pita01:20
ds3are the cheaper vendors shipping N900's now?01:20
javispedroI could :) but I don't really expect that for M6 nor the foreseable future.01:21
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lardmanQTE was abandoned wasn't it?01:21
rohanpmneither maemo5 nor maemo6 is currently using "qt for embedded linux"01:21
* GeneralAntilles notes mwkn is completely devoid of relevant info for this week.01:21
GeneralAntillesHalf the stuff we covered was obsoleted. . . .01:21
javispedroyou get used to it.01:21
t-tanGTK support: , X11 is not mentioned01:21
lardmanprobably assumed01:22
javispedroof course...01:22
rohanpmlardman: qt embedded is still supported01:22
lardmanrohanpm: really?01:23
lardmanrohanpm: still based on the very old version of Qt?01:23
rohanpmlardman: qt embedded is just another platform of qt01:23
rohanpmthe latest qt versions support it01:23
lardmanoh ok01:23
rohanpmit's not a separately distributed thing01:23
woglinde_lardman you mean qtopia01:23
woglinde_which is long dead01:23
t-tanoh wait: yes, X11 support
lardmanah yes, that's probably what I'm thinking off01:24
rohanpmlardman: no Nokia devices which have Qt are actually using qt embedded though (AFAIK)01:24
rohanpmmaemo uses qt/x11 and symbian uses qt/symbian01:25
pupnik_what's that new cleanroom X-derivative called01:25
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woglinde_pupnik wayland?01:27
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sandmant-tan: I am with you on that.. there should make a repo for debians too. So the hardware are supported.01:30
lardmanis push email free?01:30
lardmane.g. the Nokia Messenging stuff?01:30
sandmant-tan: there is a possibility to repack to .deb01:31
ShadowJKlardman, "no"01:31
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ShadowJKlardman, long answer: it depends on the country you live in and the operator you have01:31
lardmanah I see01:32
lardmanand if it's not free, does it count as data usage? Or do I really need to check?01:32
t-tansandman: unfortunately, the package format is not sufficient. it's the whole infrastructure01:32
lardmanI never realised there was even the option for push email on the N90001:32
jebbawow. meego. just read about this.01:32
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t-tansandman: but if MeeGo is really open-source (I doubt it) porting the hardware specific stuff to Ubuntu Netbook should be easy01:33
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sandmant-tan: damn.. but i am sure i have seen something like than.... was it alien it was called. The program sucked but hey...01:33
sandmant-tan: let's hope on that01:33
sandmant-tan: the latest news from Nokia have frighten me a lot01:34
t-tanjebba: long time no see01:34
jebbaya, been running around a lot  :) just catching up now01:34
t-tanjebba: you just learned that Maemo is RIP?01:35
jebbauh huh.01:35
jebbaquite a surprise. Back to RPM again, i guess  ;)01:35
t-tansandman: alien is only for the raw package conversion, but not for distribution specific stuff01:36
woglinde_jebba no thanks01:36
woglinde_I will not touch spec files01:36
sandmant-tan: ahh... was ages ago since i heard about it01:36
woglinde_only paied01:36
woglinde_ups paid01:36
t-tanI'll only buy RPM based devices if I get a huge discount01:37
KamuiN900jeez, is it just me or is the ntfs samba mounter slow as balls01:37
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MikeJBWhat happened to my favorite Finnish channel to lurk in?01:40
MikeJBSomething happened *just* as a learned how to pronounce Maemo the other day?01:41
uhsfanything new here since this morning that i should know?01:41
ds3sanity check question - maemo5 == N900's version, right?01:41
marmouteds3: True01:42
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marmouteuhsf: maemo's dead01:42
MikeJBuhsf: Maemo + Moblin = Meego01:42
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uhsfi know this i was here this morning01:42
satmdit's dead when meego arrives01:42
satmdnot before01:42
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ds3one more nomeclature question - fremantle == maemo5 right?01:42
uhsfi meant any new development about this01:42
javispedroit's dead, jim.01:42
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MikeJBSo Maemo 6 = Meego 1?01:43
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w00tno branding decision on maemo6 has been made yet01:43
pinchartlMikeJB: Maemo 6 == Harmattan01:43
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pinchartlat least before the MeeGo project announcement01:43
uhsfi'm happy to have bought a n900 when it was released because the next device will work on rpms so it will suck01:43
MikeJBThe news articles I read, well, I'm not sure they got into the guts enough.01:43
MikeJBIt'll use RPMs?01:44
pekujauhsf: are you serious?01:44
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pinchartlI'm not aware of anything having been published regarding whether Maemo6 will still be released outside of the MeeGo project01:44
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ds3maybe the N1000 will be an atom then all this is moot01:44
* MikeJB is a bit of a Fedora fan, so switching to RPMs would be great.01:44
MikeJBI practically grew up on Red Hat Linux and Fedora...01:44
w00toh dear, packaging discussion again01:44
* w00t goes back to work01:44
pinchartlhas anything been published regarding what package manager MeeGo will use ?01:45
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woglinde_pinchart no01:45
woglinde_only rpm based01:45
* cpscotti but apt-get moo is sooo cooler01:45
pinchartl.deb vs .rpm have been discussed in length, but I don't think that's an important issue01:45
MikeJBUbuntu swung the balance in favor of .deb, I'd like to see The Package balance out again.01:45
woglinde_moblin has yum01:45
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MikeJBAnd yum is awesome.01:45
pinchartlI'm pretty sure someone could port apt to .rpm :-)01:45
MikeJBBut for the end-user...01:45
wazdMeeGo time!01:45
prusnakthere already is apt-rpm01:45
woglinde_pinchart is already done01:45
MikeJB"yum install wesnoth" is probably similar to "apt-get install wesnoth" :P01:46
wazdit sounds like Ari decided to quit01:46
MikeJBSo really, technicalities aren't the most important thing.01:46
woglinde_wazd hm?01:46
MikeJBI am curious on what the guts of the OS will be, though.01:46
woglinde_wazd the blogpost was diffrent01:46
wazdwoglinde_: well, me_go joke :P01:46
woglinde_wazd or ari and quim are good at black humor01:46
woglinde_dont know01:46
wazdmeego sleep anyway :D01:47
w00tmeego find a less horrible name01:47
pupnik_it's the jar jar binks distro :(01:48
* javispedro now quietly reminds his tmo "so how you know m6 doesn't suck" post at the "n900 owners want m6 thread"01:48
ph1lyodülidü, i develop for maemo, i don't know if megoo suprort n900, jodulidüüü, if n900 go for  my efforts gonna01:49
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satmdcurrently there's no reason NOT to support n90001:49
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ph1lsatmd: tell me a reason why they should support "old" hardware on the new plattform01:51
satmdbecause it's no extra work01:51
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ph1lsame like intel.... they didn't even support theyr own plattform... like gma500!01:52
voltagexbye maemo, we hardly knew you :(01:52
ph1lplease ignore me, i'm just pissed off...01:54
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ShadowJKIf you develop for QT on maemo it'll require minimal effort to make it work on meego01:54
Sceltit was nice to buy a 550 euro mobile phone just to get to know that in half a year it's total history and already efforts are taken away from it01:55
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GeneralAntillesScelt, erm?01:55
GeneralAntillesScelt, WeeGo actually makes it more likely that there's continued support for the N900.01:55
jacquesdptdhi everybody01:56
ShadowJKScelt, you know that most developers started working on Maemo6 before the phone was in the shops, right? :)01:56
GeneralAntillesScelt, yes, because your FUD is so useful.01:56
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jacquesdptdi'm happy to that channel, been testing maemo on a nokia n900, was using ubuntu for 5 years and i'm building a tablet pc prototype and i think i'm gonna choose one of the maemo branches01:56
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I prefer MeeGoo01:56
jacquesdptdso hello01:56
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GeneralAntilleslardman, guh, it's a hard goddamn name to type.01:57
GeneralAntillesWhat were they thinking?!01:57
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: have you read jaaksi's latest blog post?01:57
jacquesdptdsad MeeGoo aint downloadble for testing right know01:57
SceltShadowJK: but maemo6 is not meego01:57
GeneralAntillesWe should just rename it to "MeeGo (What were they thinking?!)"01:57
ph1lShadowJK: yeah shure, what i'm missing is the statement that the new vesrsion will support n900, because if not, i've no reason to support the whole platform at all.01:57
GeneralAntillesjacquesdptd, they said they should have something out in a few weeks.01:57
wiretappedif nokia was willing to support maemo6 on the N900 I think they would be singing it from the rooftops right now01:57
jacquesdptdyes i just talked with one of the dev01:58
GeneralAntillesWhatever, I'm so not interested in playing this FUD game again.01:58
Sceltuse no marketing terms01:58
wiretappedinstead they're emphasizing that you can develop software for maemo6 using your maemo5 device01:58
Sceltain't making you cooler, son01:58
jacquesdptdso guys what would you suggest me for a 15 inch tablet resistive touch with amd sempron 2000, 1 gig of memory ddr 2 and nvidia based graphic01:58
GeneralAntillesScelt, FUD's a marketing term?01:58
GeneralAntillesScelt, anyway, first warning.01:58
GeneralAntillesI'm so not in the mood.01:59
jacquesdptdi would like a UI smooth full of effect and usuable with the fingers01:59
Lumpio-jacquesdptd: ipad01:59
jacquesdptddo you guys have ideas ?01:59
SceltGeneralAntilles: first warning?01:59
jacquesdptdipad is far slower than my stuff, not open, no usb, expensive, monotouch, apple is it enough Lumpio- ?01:59
jacquesdptdmy thing is more notebook / netbook / tablet-pc / ipad02:00
Lumpio-I don't get the point of big tablets in the first place02:00
jacquesdptdsame point of netbooks02:00
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voltagexopenmoko died we have no more options02:00
lardmanbloody C++02:01
cehtehbig tablet = ebook reader02:01
cehteh.. plus some more fun02:01
cehtehwell i want colored e-ink for that and weeks lasting battery02:01
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ph1lit's just iritating... maemo is gonna die.... symbina: if no one want's it you make it open source.... and now the coorperation with a product like moblin which didn't even supports it's own hardware... shame on intel!!!02:02
jacquesdptdbut this time in your hands, my device will have different possibilities, you come back home, it controls your house medias, you go outside in a internet coffee bar, it makes a real good computer to work on, you're at work you can still work or plug it to video projector for showing project or medias, you are cooking, you have you're kitchen computer, Lumpio- do you need others reasons ?02:02
SpeedEvilI tried to use my n900 in the oven earlier.02:02
SpeedEvilIt wouldn't get wifi alas.02:03
Lumpio-I guess it's all kind of hard to imagine for me02:03
SpeedEvil(to monitor bread rising)02:03
Lumpio-When I come back home I sit in front of my house medias, I don't go into coffee shops, and I have a desktop computer at work. Which I don't use for presentations.02:03
ShadowJKph1l, I thought meego == opensource maemo ontop of moblin base02:03
javispedrolol at the rpm vs deb holy war.02:04
* GeneralAntilles throws holy water on javispedro.02:04
ali1234rpm vs deb is just bikeshedding02:05
ShadowJKI probably shouldn't say it, but I've always been annoyed at when someone just uploaded something from debian straight. With debian's maintainer emails and debian's bugtrackers, etc...02:05
ShadowJKali1234, indeed.02:05
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ShadowJK<ShadowJK> I guess when just the packaging becomes such a "big" part of "porting" an app, it just tells you something about how portable that app is and how close to mainstream distros a distro is... the big picture is missing somewhere ;)02:05
ali1234debs can be abused just like rpms - there is no better example of that than maemo02:05
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ph1lShadowJK, just that moblin (intel) sucks much! again, they sell gma500 and don't support it on theyre own plattform...02:06
jacquesdptdLumpio-, as you said , it's you, i've got already orders, anyway we don't care about what i'm doing i wanna help to get things working and maybe find some help02:06
cehteh.. just everyone buy a n900 and write software for it and dont care for maemo6 any beyond .. lets see what nokia thinks then :P02:06
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ph1lShadowJK, i hope nokia has more responsibility thowards theyre customers..02:07
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* javispedro throws some more fire02:07
javispedros/fire/holy fire02:07
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lardmanHoly Handgrenade?02:08
ShadowJKph1l, well Nokia doesn't support Maemo on most of their devices either.02:08
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ph1lShadowJK: Don't tell me that Nokia didn't support Maemo... it's theyre only weapon against the holy jobbs-store02:10
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ph1lif there's no apps for maemo... they gonna die..02:11
ShadowJKph1l, there have been 5 maemo devices, and during that time about 60 other devices from nokia which did not support Maemo. Intel's ratio with Moblin is probably no worse.02:11
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gjlwhat's interesting is that moblin is being referred to as an Intel project. Didn't Intel offload it to the Linux Foundation a while ago?02:12
ph1lyeah, i agree, it's nice to have intel on board, for sure! ... i just hope that nokia dont't drop support for n90002:13
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pupnik_intel is nice like godzilla02:13
ShadowJKWe always knew they'd drop support for N900. They always do that ;-)02:13
* pupnik_ senses a new opportunity for mer02:14
ShadowJKAnd hey! We should be happy, we've gotten more features to N900 than we were supposed to!02:14
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ph1lwhat i'd like to say is that niether intel nor nokia is going to push support on old devices , just because they like to sell new devices...02:15
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pupnik_new devices are nice as long as the hardware doesn't get worse02:16
pupnik_<cough> speakers02:16
javispedrosince I hardly believe any of you can alter any step of the mr. magoo distro merge,02:17
Araneldont want to interrupt, anyway: will N900 receive new updates? as in Maemo 6 maybe?02:17
javispedrowhy not create a useless^Wonline petition for Nokia to keep the Maemo brand? :)02:17
ph1li don't beleve anyone until i've got a goomeeee (whatewver) support for my n900 :-D02:17
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bef0rdsomehow I'm glad I skipped the n90002:17
* GeneralAntilles is tempted to setup a global autocomplete for MeeGo. Mee "What were they thinking?!" Go02:18
pupnik_damn t-online blocking again02:18
milos_Hi AMeegos!02:18
Lumpio-They're blocking a forum?02:18
Lumpio-What is this, North Korea?02:19
GeneralAntillesmilos_, kill me now.02:19
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satmdhuh? t-online does?02:19
ph1lbef0rd, yeah, this way you've just don't get that much telefone calls :-)02:19
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milos_Hehe :)02:19
pupnik_yes Lumpio- german goverment forced ISPs to proxy/record DNS lookups and t-online's implementation breaks without a router that redirects IPs02:19
pupnik_IP addresses02:19
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satmdthat's hardly true that way you put it02:20
pupnik_sorry modem02:20
satmdjust turn off the 'navigations-hilfe'02:20
pupnik_it's behind the router02:20
ph1lbullshit -> pupnik_, you can have any dns-server you want02:20
satmdph1l: not if udp/53 is restricted02:21
pupnik_i can use opendns or verizon, which isn't much better tbh02:21
bef0rdgoogle public dns?02:21
pupnik_give them a call.  they will tell you you need to upgrade their modem02:21
ph1lplease don't tell me that german isp are blocking port 53... shure?02:21
satmdpupnik_: I WORKED for them 5 years ago02:22
pupnik_good, then tell me what they did to break their dns servers02:22
satmdnothing, works fine on my box over there02:22
ph1ldamn, glad i'm not from europe :-)02:22
pupnik_how do you turn off 'navigations-hilfe'02:22
satmdmore likely you have problems with mtu or pmtu02:22
pupnik_nm, it works again02:23
satmdpupnik_: surf a non-existant domain02:23
satmdthe resulting webpage will have a link to the settings of your account, where you can turn it off02:23
pupnik_ahh i see at the bottom, ty02:23
pupnik_after a while it works again.  do you know why?02:24
pupnik_same url02:24
satmdmost likely you're running into pmtu/mtu issues02:24
satmdget drtcp and set the mtu to 1492, enable blackhole detection and path mtu02:24
satmdon linux, ifconfig eth0 mtu 149202:25
satmd(or ppp0)02:25
satmdwill need restarting of networking or reboot02:26
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ph1lso what you would sugesst... i have a greate software for maemo5... what should i do... waiting for meego for releasing?02:28
ptldo it in qt02:28
ph1lit's qt allready...02:29
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ph1loh, no it's gtk02:29
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ptlph1l: I think you should ask the meego guys at #meego02:30
ptltry to dodge the rpm/deb flamewar02:30
ph1lit's about home-partition encryption... so at this point youn dont have hildon... or qt02:31
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ShadowJKI suspect that will be specific to every device anyway02:32
ShadowJKSince every device will most likely have different storage devices02:32
wazdjust checked WM7 demo02:33
ph1lShadowJK: i would be so glad if there would be a generic hook...02:33
wazdI think they've "flattened" UI a bit too much :)02:33
lcukwazd, what do you mean?02:34
lcukand pics will help02:34
woglindejo lcuk02:34
lcukhi woglinde02:34
wazdlcuk: well, they now have some kind of "typographic" centric UI02:34
* lcuk rpms woglinde 02:34
woglindelcuk what a sad day02:34
lcukwoglinde to put things in perspective, im burying my gran tomorrow.  i would happily use rpms for the rest of my life if it brought her back02:35
lcukoh that wazd, it reminded me of liqbase02:35
wazdlcuk: well, metro UI concept existed in XP media center already :P02:36
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lcukbut that one made me sit up a bit more than usual02:36
lcukdo you think the photos zoom when you click em02:37
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fralslcuk; plenty of answers in #meego eh? ;)02:40
wazdlcuk: looks like no :)02:40
lcukand which answer is that02:41
fralsand my condolences :<02:41
lcukwazd ^ mine here, or the meego one02:41
GeneralAntillesSorry to hear that, lcuk. :(02:41
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wazdlcuk: bout zooming pictures :)02:41
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wazdlcuk: I don't care bout meego much right now02:41
lcukwazd, oh, they dont?  how do you see one fullscreen after you panned to the thumbs?02:42
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wazdlcuk: well, it just opens :)02:42
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javispedroI was pondering... does anyone know about any Hildon-input-method protocol documentation other than the source?02:43
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javispedrocause I've just read some summit slides that make a passing reference to that documentation (including a "SDL binding")02:43
fralsjavispedro: i recall a mailinglist post about it but not sure there is any actual docs02:44
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javispedrofrals: ok, found it. thanks.02:51
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fralsi wonder if they try really hard not to understand you there lcuk02:53
* frals heads back to playing with breaking gprs02:53
GeneralAntillesIt's amazing that for all of ars generally excellent articles their commenters are really nearly YouTube levels of idiocy.02:53
lcukfrals, i find that really odd02:53
lcukthere was fanfare 12months ago about all these moblin machines, i cant find a single one02:53
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lcukanyway, bed for me, long day tomorrow02:54
fralsgnite :)02:54
woglindenite lcuk02:54
javispedrogood nite lcuk02:54
javispedroit's quite a bit of a cultural clash.02:55
javispedroand I though maemo and moblin were somewhat similar...02:55
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javispedromy next merger proposal: pandora vs meego communities!02:56
fralshe :D02:56
* javispedro joes watch that dilbert tv series episode about mergers02:56
fralsmm, new version of fmms posted, better head to bed before it hits the repos so im fast asleep while the shitstorm hits02:56
GeneralAntillesFebruary 15th, 201002:56
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GeneralAntillesRIP Maemo02:56
javispedroyes, a bad day indeed.02:56
woglindefrals *g*02:57
t-tangood nite02:57
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles02:57
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Free software mirror: | Join #meego for discussions about the merger |"02:57
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javispedroand this is how maemo dies... with thunderous rpm vs deb holy war.02:57
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ali1234man i knew there would be a huge argument about it but i didn't think it would be this bad02:59
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javispedroI'm actually impressed that rpm is the "holy issue". just the merge itself is more an issue...03:00
ali1234i figured rpm would be the big issue03:00
fralsim just curious whats happening to the community03:01
ali1234nothing else is really clear03:01
GeneralAntillesfrals, hoping to run for council to help steer that in the right direction.03:01
javispedroah.. osnews.03:01
javispedroso yesterday they were saying that "a new OS is always good, competition!"03:01
fralsbecause from what ive gathered moblin got 0 community03:01
ShadowJKIt starts looking more and more like me like meego is becoming maemo's upstream, since meego on nokia will be different then meego on <othermanufacturer> anyway.03:01
javispedrotoday they're saying that "... unification that is much needed in ..."03:01
fralsShadowJK: yeah, judging from the #meego chatter it seems that way03:02
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javispedroShadowJK: that's my actual impression too. if that's the case, then I don't consider it awful either.03:02
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javispedrosince for one we'll finally have 100% oss "core platform" -- no more closed icd2! yay!03:02
ali1234ShadowJK: yes, exactly. and maemo desperately needs an upstream to bring some structure03:02
GeneralAntillesWish they'd keep the brand. . . .03:03
ali1234meego is a terrible name, without doubt03:03
uhsfshould've been Meeko, OpenMeeko03:03
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javispedroeven OpenMeeko sounds better :)03:03
ali1234"me" and "we/wii" are the new "Xtreme"03:03
GeneralAntillesYou know, it took Freenode 18 freaking months to process the damn contact form now it's complete useless.03:04
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meceGeneralAntilles, I REALLY want to keep the maemo brand alive too. I was actually thinking about that just now..03:05
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GeneralAntillesPeople are already abandoning the mask.03:05
javispedrothings to worry about: secretism (why? oh, why???), the new leadership,..03:05
SpeedEvilWho owns the maemo trademark?03:05
fralsnow, im a noob in this community, but, i dont see why this community would have to die or go away03:05
Anidelthey couldn't have kept the name.. neither of them03:05
SpeedEvilfrals: it doesn't.03:05
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AnidelI think that if they did would meant one of the two was disappearing into the other...03:05
SpeedEvilfrals: however - people only have so much time.03:06
meceperhaps the community could keep the brand03:06
javispedroa nice move would be to opensource all the fremantle gtk apps :)03:06
strohiwhat will happen with actual maemo devices?03:06
meceI wouldn't mind at all if moblin disappeared into maemo...03:06
SpeedEvilfrals: Add to that that devs go - largely - where the users do.03:06
penguinbaityou got your maemo in my moblin, you got your moblin in my maemo03:06
GeneralAntillesAnidel, problem is, Moblin doesn't have a community.03:07
Anidelmece: you don't... others do. I don't care about the name.. I can be romantic and stick with Maemo (great name).. but oh well.. in the end.. it's just a Maemo reincarnation.03:07
GeneralAntillesAnidel, Maemo has a very strong one around maemo.org03:07
AnidelGeneralAntilles, so what?03:07
wizkoderhy everybody03:07
GeneralAntillesAnidel, so killing our community identity out from under us is a low blow.03:07
meceAndiel, who?03:07
AnidelGeneralAntilles, that should go follow Maemo into MeeGo03:07
penguinbaitMaemo was NOT a great name, but way better than meego03:07
penguinbaitI would rather Moblin03:07
AnidelGeneralAntilles, it is.. but.. it's done.. so let's deal with it03:07
fralsSpeedEvil: what i figured, there are quite some movement behind and moblin seems to have 0 :P03:07
GeneralAntillesWe own the trademark more or less.03:08
mecefrals, exactly!03:08
meceGeneralAntilles, so, let's keep it.03:08
fralsanyway, im still curious of how this whole maemo/meego "merge" is actually gonna go down and whats gonna be separate03:08
AnidelGeneralAntilles, let's make it then.. like it or not03:08
javispedrofrals: yes, me too.,03:08
javispedroI have to wonder if unifying garage is even the right idea.03:08
fralsbecause by the sounds of #meego chatter meego is only lowlevel stuff and each manufacturer gets to add their own flavor on top03:08
GeneralAntillesI think it's unfortunate that there's so much on the Maemo side and so little on the Moblin side and yet the whole merger so far has been VERY biased towards Intel.03:09
cehtehmhm after all 3 stars its hard to beat ones own highscores in angry-birds :P03:09
Anidelfrals, I think they'll both earn a new UI and the core will be merged from hopefully the best pieces of both platform...03:09
fralsAnidel: one can hope :) either way, time will tell i guess03:09
jacekowskii think the whole thing is more about sticking american intel chips into phones03:09
AnidelGeneralAntilles, you think it'll be like that or seen it?03:09
jacekowskiinstead of european ARM chips03:09
GeneralAntillesAnidel, infra is Intel03:10
Anidelfrals, but we can push for it as well03:10
GeneralAntillesAnidel, technical details are mainly Intel.03:10
javispedrojacekowski: Embrace Maemo, Extend MeeGo, Entiguish ARM!03:10
jacquesdptdi'm actually testing moblin 2 and i wanted to know if anybody here managed to make it run using virtual box ?03:10
wizkodermeego reminds me of that hobbits name in lotr. smeegol :-)03:10
GeneralAntillesAnidel, all of the "MeeGo" people I've talked to so far are all Intel.03:10
AnidelGeneralAntilles, Nokia isn't trashing Maemo into Moblin either03:10
jacekowskibut everybody knows that ARM is superior03:10
jacekowskiarm is native RISC processor03:10
javispedroAnidel: Nokia is trashing all the low level stuff of Maemo03:10
jacekowskiwhile all x86 are only RISC inside while outside is still x86 and whole pipeline has to translate03:11
javispedrobut, much like with the Qt move, "because the low level Moblin stuff is nicer and more open".03:11
jacquesdptdjavispedro, really ?03:11
Anideljavispedro, you mean ofono?03:11
jacquesdptdjavispedro, you can't run it into 1,2,3 levels ?03:11
ali1234javispedro: good. all the low level stuff of maemo is either closed or broken or both03:11
jacekowskiali1234: it's working for m03:11
jacquesdptdjavispedro, i've tried the nokia n90003:11
javispedroAnidel: more than ofono -- icd2 comes to mind.03:11
AnidelGeneralAntilles, so what ? I am sure Intel had more free people to prepare the ground than maemo people03:11
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wizkoderwhere can I find the documentation for "Hildon Touch Text Entry"?03:12
GeneralAntillesAnidel, it's frustrating and doesn't help my whole "I've been punched in the gut" feeling.03:12
jacquesdptdwhat you guys think of modde ?03:12
Anidelanyway.. time will tell.. but let's voice our concern to our maemo guys... I like Maemo, but as long as its soul is there.. I can be fine03:12
jacquesdptdi meant03:12
AnidelGeneralAntilles, I know.. me neither .. and I am still digesting..03:12
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fralsi think whats needed is to focus on getting a council elected that got the time and energy to see this merger through03:13
microlithhere's a question: If is going to go by the wayside, what happens to the existing repos and the devices that dependon them?03:13
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GeneralAntillesmicrolith, no idea.03:13
microlithfrals: and hoping that the meego people listen?03:13
meceWell after hearing the name MeeGo, Maemo suddenly seems very unique and cool a name. Actually the name is the only thing that really bothers me.03:13
EspadaV8_Lsurely meamo 6 will still be released?03:13
GeneralAntillesmicrolith, presumably r.m.o will stay up for a while.03:13
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EspadaV8_Lor is this happening from today?03:14
fralsmicrolith: *make* them listen ;-)03:14
GeneralAntillesEspadaV8_L, it's going to be fairly close to MeeGo.03:14
Anidelr.m.o probably will be moved to r.m.c ?03:14
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microlithfrals: they can ignore you. they have through today.03:14
Anidelthe only think I don't actually like is the .com part03:14
javispedroEspadaV8_L: Maemo 6 is going to be released, and dunno whatever way is Nokia going to be marketing it, but I doubt they moved it to Moblin.03:14
GeneralAntillesAnidel, seems unlikely for legacy support03:14
GeneralAntillesBut who knows.03:14
javispedro(due the short timeframe)03:14
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AnidelGeneralAntilles, :) indeed03:14
Anidelhey Seb03:14
* frals hits his sheeva, stop lagging damn it03:14
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EspadaV8_Li can kind of see the point behind it, there do target similar devices, so it could help speed up and improve the system03:15
mecejavispedro, jaaksi says maemo 6 should be considered a MeeGo release03:15
Anidelwe'll be on the same time zone in a few days for a few months03:15
javispedromece: will it have RPM packages already? I seriously doubt it.03:15
javispedromece: so it's just a marketing thing.03:15
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fralshehe, wonder if we're gonna see a bunch of "adds rpm-support" commits in ham @ gitorious03:16
mecejavispedro, possibly. I have no idea. Do we have any m6 developers here?03:16
javispedroM6 is scheduled for _this year_. If they can rebase and repackage the entire of Maemo in a few months, hats off.03:16
mecejavispedro, I was thinking that they've known about this for a while now..03:17
javispedromece: "a core subset of developers has known" for a while, it seems (to prevent leaks)03:17
ali1234at the end of the day linux is linux03:17
javispedrothis remembers me... why so many secrets???03:18
meceali1234, tru dat03:18
javispedroali1234: go buy webos phone03:18
SpeedEviljavispedro: there are all sorts of wacky reasons.03:18
ali1234javispedro: that just proves my point. maemo is not like webos or android - it is built out of mostly standard components03:18
SpeedEviljavispedro: For example - releasing to community may have SEC implications.03:18
mecejavispedro, well big corporate cooperations are secret until everything is sorted and clear (the business part I mean) so that's no surprise at all.03:19
ali1234plus, everyone loves a good flamewar right?03:19
Anidelgoing to bed, see you later.. and well.. let's see03:19
jacquesdptdyeah but he was meaning cause of the linux base supposed to be Open :)03:19
javispedroof course! a good flamewar on the d-day03:19
mecerpm vs deb war ftw!03:19
jacquesdptdanyway i'm understanding it03:19
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ShadowJKJust threaten with openembedded/bitbake/etc...03:20
jacquesdptdguys is it possible to install maemo on a normal desktop computer running ubuntu desktop ?03:20
microlithShadowJK: "diaf" is an appropriate response to that :P03:20
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jacquesdptdcan't dual boot with it ?03:20
cehtehwell ... sdk .. think about it03:20
mecebut MeeGo should be possible afaict03:20
EspadaV8_Lis maemo moving to prm or moblie to deb?03:21
jacquesdptdi know03:21
cehtehwith some efforts it should be possible03:21
javispedroor Mer.03:21
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jacquesdptdi've talk with lbt03:21
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jacquesdptdi'm gonna choose meego for the devices i'm gonna create03:21
javispedrocehteh: it's easy enough. Just point SDK to fullscreen Xorg -- but Maemo sucks at anything other than 800x48003:21
ShadowJKEspadaV8_L, moblin is rpm. maemo is deb. meego is rpm.03:21
jacquesdptdbut for now i'm searching for all kind of os to test them03:21
EspadaV8_Lah, so they'll be using moblin as the base03:22
jacquesdptdi want something smooth with good visual effects running on any plateform03:22
jacquesdptdmaemo and meego seems to be that os's i'm searching for03:22
ali1234jacquesdptd: smooth visuals are entirely down to having working accelerated drivers03:22
jacquesdptdi'm trying to test moblin building some images but that's kinda hard03:22
javispedroyou're looking for moblin indeed, if any platform means any x86 platform.03:22
ali1234the actual OS you run on top of those is pretty much irrelevant03:22
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jacquesdptdali1234, plus i have nvidia chipset on my devices03:22
javispedro(any SSE3 capable x86 platform, of course)03:22
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mecejacquesdptd, well they did market meego as a os for many different types of devices, so I guess you're in luck there.03:23
jacquesdptdi'm trying moblin03:23
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EspadaV8_Li wonder if this means meego will also be on the nokia 3g booklet in the future03:23
jacquesdptdbut same here kinda laggy and i have some problem on it, and theres saddly no support on the channel03:23
meceI really hope nok will come out with a nice tablet. The market is wide open since apple hyped up the market and then delivered the iFail.03:24
jacquesdptdmece, yeah that's what they are saying, we've talked to me about madde03:24
ali1234well you'd probably have to hack moblin to install the nvidia binary03:24
jacquesdptdthat would correspond for a touch device and qt experience with maemo base03:24
jacquesdptddo you guys knows a bit about it before i'm testing it ?03:24
GeneralAntillesEspadaV8_L, let's hope so.03:24
GeneralAntillesEspadaV8_L, boooo Windows 7.03:24
meceaw crap, 3:24. I guess I should be getting to bed. I just came here to see if other people are interested in preserving the maemo brand somehow.03:25
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crashanddiemece: check the mailing lists03:25
javispedrois anyone not interested in that?03:25
mececrashanddie, I've never actually done that. Where do I go?03:26
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EspadaV8_LGeneralAntilles: i think it'd be interesting if they did something like dell, have an arm system on there too running meego that you can just open the lid and be on03:26
crashanddiemece: in my case my inbox, in your case google probably, can't remember the links03:26
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EspadaV8_Land if you need win7 you can do a normal boot and get reduced battery life03:26
crashanddieisn't that what Macos does?03:26
crashanddieI usually just open the lid and it's on03:27
ali1234i'd rather just have the arm part and use the other 90% of the space for a bigger battery03:27
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, no, its sleep is just less shitty than anybody elses.03:27
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: my point exactly, who cares about the implementation as long as the result is good03:27
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crashanddieEspadaV8_L: and why would a chipmaker be interested in providing an extension to built computers?03:27
crashanddieI don't understand why Intel would partner with a ARM-based OS though?03:28
javispedrocrashanddie: Embrace Extend Extinguish! ;)03:28
crashanddieI mean, surely Intel can't believe it can gain traction in in-car computing?03:28
zashcrashanddie: make it suck, sell more x86 :D03:29
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, netbooks.03:29
javispedrofrom slashdot, words of wisdom!03:29
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GeneralAntillesPossibly set-top boxes.03:29
EspadaV8_Lcrashanddie: they probably have a lot of duplicated work, in which case that make sense03:29
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SpeedEvilNothing stopping intel from buying arm licenses :)03:29
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zashwill we see intel producing arm cpus?03:29
crashanddieSpeedEvil: lol03:29
greenflyprobably has more to do with nokia not wanting to deal w/ maemo and focus more on symbian03:29
crashanddieSpeedEvil: I'd like to see that03:29
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woglindezash they did some time ago03:30
greenflynow Intel can provide the developers for the OS and Nokia can provide the open source community (it hopes)03:30
SpeedEvilthough they sold that03:30
EspadaV8_Laren't they wanting to ditch symbian?03:30
crashanddieSpeedEvil: "We've spent 30 years developing our own CPUs, but we've finally come to the conclusion that we're too shit at it, and we'll just stick to producing somebody else's designs"03:30
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woglindespeedevil jupp03:30
EspadaV8_Li can't see them wanting to focus on it just now03:30
greenflyEspadaV8_L: dunno, I've seen a ton of announcements about symbian lately03:30
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woglindeafter lubook I think03:30
woglindeor lubock03:30
cehtehmy bets are still that intel will try to enter the embedded/phone market with some atom like x86 chips03:30
woglindewho cares03:30
crashanddiegreenfly: of course not03:30
EspadaV8_Lyeah, that's just about it being open sourced, that's not really part of nokia now03:31
zgoldSpeedEvil: ah, too many channels03:31
crashanddiecehteh: and people think the N900 sucks in terms of battery life!03:31
cehtehcrashanddie: not current atoms of course ..03:31
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mececrashanddie, well, people are wrong :)03:31
SpeedEvilinterview with aRM founder03:31
woglindeI am going to read further with Thomas covenant and than to bed03:32
woglindegood nite03:32
greenflyI guess I'm unclear, if meego is basically going to be based off moblin, what nokia is providing other than some developers, QT, and and agreement to use meego on "flagship" devices03:32
greenflyother than the community03:32
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GeneralAntillesgreenfly, the stacks are already pretty damn similar.03:33
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GeneralAntillesgreenfly, Tracker, phone stuff, etc. will come from Maemo in addition to the similar stuff.03:34
greenflyahh makes sense. plus I guess fedora /is/ using more ubuntu-like stuff like upstart these days03:34
EspadaV8_Lmoblin doesn't support 3g, does it?03:34
* EspadaV8_L thinks they should rebase to use Gentoo instead03:35
greenflyheh, that would be great for battery life :)03:35
* zgold *chokes* @ EspadaV8_L 03:35
* zgold 's comment03:35
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EspadaV8_L"give me an few days, I'm just updating vim"03:36
zgoldEspadaV8_L: i can imagine the firmware update process.. 20 days to download/compile the os upgrade03:36
meceEspadaV8_L, some info about what comes from where:
greenfly"No, I SWEAR ls runs faster when I compile it myself"03:36
zgoldmece: oh boy, tracker from maemo03:36
angasulewill it use RPM as heard somewhere?03:36
zgoldmece: i cant tell if thats a blessing or curse having used the n90003:36
crashanddieanyone who keeps trolling about Gentoo gets kicked03:36
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angasulemeh, typing without my right index finger is annoying03:37
crashanddieand if you want to discuss MeeGo, please join #meego03:37
angasulecrashanddie: ok03:37
EspadaV8_Lmece: that seems to make sense03:37
mecezgold, I've not have any problems with tracker. Everyone else is just doing it wrong I guess :D03:37
mecedammit ok. I really have to get to bed. Ta.03:37
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, but what if we want to say offensive things about it? :P03:38
zgoldmece: I don't know.  I've got about 2000 songs on my device and when I open the media player it literally pegs the CPU for about 2 minutes just downloading data via dbus from tracker03:38
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: then here is fine03:38
angasuleso what happens to maemo? it'll join the dodo?03:38
crashanddiehang on03:38
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*** crashanddie changes topic to "Topic for #maemo: Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Free software mirror: | No to MeeGo! Off with their heads |"03:39
greenflyzgold: I noticed that the first time the index was built, but not after that (at least for the same set of songs)03:39
zgoldcrashanddie: in all seriousness, why the anti-meego sentiment?  (a joke perhaps?)03:40
zgoldgreenfly: Its consistent for me, sadly.  Might be something to do that im using ogg files?03:40
GeneralAntilleszgold, because we love Maemo, we love and we love our community.03:40
GeneralAntilleszgold, and Nokia and Intel sort of made a backroom deal to kill them all and replace them with a Fisher Price toy.03:40
greenflyzgold: hmm, wonder if you basically reset the tracker db if it'd help03:40
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EspadaV8_Llol, nice image :)03:41
zgoldgreenfly: is there a tracker command to do that?  Something like trackerd --reset ?03:41
lcukcrashanddie, change that, you dont speak for the community03:41
zgoldGeneralAntilles: I guess I agree about the backhandedness, but i do think they were well intentioned and good will come of it03:41
EspadaV8_LGeneralAntilles: do you really think it'll change the community?03:41
lcukyou might be a moderator, but thats just not nice03:41
greenflyzgold: there is one, but I don't recall it at the moment03:41
EspadaV8_Li mean, coding apps in Qt/GTK will be the same03:42
pupnik_actually a toy would sell better than a hacker device03:42
EspadaV8_Lthe base system is similar03:42
EspadaV8_Lthe only difference will be packaging the apps03:42
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crashanddiezgold: this whole thing has always been about openness. I remember Ari Jaaski, at the very Maemo Summit explaining how hard it was to convince Nokia execs to embrace openness, but that they finally got there, and that they were enjoying it as much as we were. Where was the openness in this merger? Why were people signed under NDAs before being told about it (which in an Open Source community is like bribing or holding a knife u03:42
GeneralAntillesEspadaV8_L, how can it not?03:42
crashanddielcuk: damn, did Nokia merge your sense for humour as well?03:43
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, obviously for marketing reasons.03:43
* pupnik_ thinks it's time for pizza03:43
*** crashanddie changes topic to "Topic for #maemo: Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Free software mirror: | Please join #meego for MeeGo related questions |"03:43
greenflyeh, I think in a year the community will more or less as it is now--same battered-wife syndrome with Nokia, but still willing to believe it's different this time03:43
zgoldcrashanddie: I dont know, I think there are probably corporate realities that required the hush hush until now03:43
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GeneralAntillesgreenfly, :rolleyes:03:43
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greenflyeveryone who threatens to leave will still be here, sans a few03:44
GeneralAntilleszgold, I agree 100%03:44
GeneralAntilleszgold, doesn't make it feel less like I've been punched in the stomach.03:44
zgoldGeneralAntilles: amen03:44
greenflyeveryone else will eventually just get back to working on what they find interesting03:44
GeneralAntilleszgold, the reasons people have trouble with it are primarily emotional.03:44
crashanddiezgold: I feel pretty sick to be honest, and I don't know why I would stay03:44
zgoldGeneralAntilles: I generally like the name Maemo better than meego :)03:44
GeneralAntilleszgold, it's worlds better.03:44
zgoldcrashanddie: why would you leave is a better question i think03:44
angasulezgold: well, meego sounds like the name of a retarded alien03:45
EspadaV8_Lnokia make good hardware, they just have issues following it through with the software at time03:45
GeneralAntilleszgold, it's also been built up as a reasonable strong brand03:45
greenflyGeneralAntilles: oh I agree what they did and the secrecy totally sucks and is a slap in the face to the maemo community03:45
zgoldcrashanddie: unless you have some really strong affection to debs03:45
GeneralAntilles(at least compared to MeeGo)03:45
greenflyespecially considering how much they expect the community to do for them03:45
angasulezgold: I do, and I loathe rpm (I've done both03:45
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, that's the fun of Maemo.03:45
crashanddiezgold: I wasn't here because of the OS. I was here because of a combination of the software, hardware, the possibilities, and the community. More than once was working with a handful of people the only reason I stayed here03:45
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, if they shipped a platform like the iPhone I wouldn't be interested.03:45
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greenflyheh I wouldn't be around here either, in that case03:46
zgoldcrashanddie: what about that changed?03:46
zgoldcrashanddie: Moblin provides a lot of really cool things (Faster boots anybody?)03:46
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greenflyit's the fact that I don't have to jailbreak or violate warranties to get root that brought me here03:46
zgoldcrashanddie: will only make the device better i guess03:46
lcukcrashanddie, there was a long period you didnt even have an active device!03:46
crashanddielcuk: indeed03:46
crashanddiezgold: if it wasn't for lcuk, GeneralAntilles, anidel, vdvsx and jaffa, I probably wouldn't be here anymore, and for quite some time.03:46
zgoldI dunno, did they fire lcuk ?03:47
* lcuk looks03:47
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crashanddiezgold: I just don't see what it brings03:47
lcukzgold, can you fwd me that mail03:48
crashanddiezgold: the only thing I see is marketing hype and changing names to remove the blistering that Maemo endured with the N90003:48
zgoldlcuk: I would never :)03:48
ShadowJKwhat blistering... the thing is still sold out everywhere..03:48
zgoldcrashanddie: I think its too early to judge thaat03:48
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zgoldcrashanddie: unless you know something about the actual state of maemo 6 that I don't03:49
crashanddiezgold: it's an easy escape hatch, rather than fighting through. Intel has its fingers in more pies than a lepper on a cooking course, so uniting forces with them is pretty much a moot point.03:49
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lcuki see the technical aspects of widening the scope of maemo to be essential03:49
ali1234crashanddie: intel has a way better reputation with the open source community in general03:49
EspadaV8_Li've not heard any bad press about the n90003:49
crashanddiewell, they do fuck all, so yeah, not hard to have a good reputation if you never make mistakes03:49
zgoldEspadaV8_L: I have, usb connectors falling out, battery life, no multi touch03:50
EspadaV8_Lunless you count "it's for geeks" bad03:50
zgoldEspadaV8_L: nothing worth thinking twice about though03:50
ali1234crashanddie: they released open source drivers and the full documentation for their graphics cards03:50
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: not really 100% true. See powertop forex.03:50
sheepbatwell.. I'm personally wondering what i can do to keep the connector from falling out03:50
ali1234they also made a lot of contributions to xorg to make sure the drivers really worked03:50
ali1234intel do as much "behind the scenes" stuff as nokia03:50
crashanddieokay, I'm probably wrong on a lot of points03:50
zgoldHonestly, i do feel the sucker punch, but I can't think of anything better than *finally* a united force pushing linux03:51
ali1234what they don't do is build "communities"03:51
ali1234personally i think nokia and intel is a good compliment03:51
SpeedEvilsheepbat: don't stress the connector.03:51
reillyeonzgold: Right, we need Maemo running on more than one platform.03:51
crashanddieali1234: as I explained on the ML, there is no community for Moblin as there is no released device that has it OOTB03:51
SpeedEvilsheepbat: push it straight in, pull it straight out. Don't tread on it.03:51
crashanddieso there's a few ways we can look at this03:51
ali1234but what is a community really?03:51
sheepbatyes, SpeedEvil03:51
SpeedEvilsheepbat: Don't touch the cable when plugged in. - well - don't press on it.03:52
crashanddieeither we take it as a godsend, and embrace a small modification to Maemo in order to enable the use of Maemo on more devices03:52
greenflyali1234: free developers, tech support, and fans?03:52
ali1234is it developers? is it end users? is it people whining on forums?03:52
zgoldreillyeon: would be nice for there to be more than 1 maemo device at the edge too wouldn';t it?03:52
sheepbatif I'm using the phone while plugged in, I'll generally fold it back so that it's touching the back surface03:52
crashanddieI just wish they kept Maemo as the name03:52
sheepbatjust so the weight of the cable isn't tugging down on it03:52
GeneralAntilleszgold, I agree, reducing fragmentation has been something I've been waiting for for a long time.03:52
greenflywell, in other news, I don't feel quite as bad about the iPad name anymore03:53
ali1234greenfly: plenty of people are out there giving free tech support for intel drivers. they just don't consider themselves part of a "community" of intel users03:53
GeneralAntilleszgold, doesn't take much of the sting away, though.03:53
ali1234greenfly: they're just part of their distro community03:53
reillyeonzgold: Android has the "give us a phone and we'll bring great software" model.  We need that too.03:53
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zgoldGeneralAntilles: I think that'll wear off when we have Maemo 6 booting in 3 seconds03:53
zgoldGeneralAntilles: thanks to mobilin tech =P03:53
greenflyzgold: how often do you boot your n900?03:53
zgoldgreenfly: sadly more often than i'de like to admit...03:54
crashanddiezgold: maemo 6 will be meego compatible, nobody said it would be the first instance of meego (what I mean by that, dunno if it'll run on other platforms)03:54
greenflyI rarely boot either my n900 or my laptop03:54
luke-jrgreenfly: I have to boot it after I take it out. Battery never lasts a trip outside. -.-03:54
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zgoldgreenfly: your point is valid though, but i think so is mine -- moblin does bring some good quality tech and definitely a lot of good engineers03:54
crashanddieluke-jr: then come back home during the week?03:54
luke-jror rather, battery might last, but BME forces a shutdown -.-03:54
greenflywhich sucks because I set up a really cool boot video03:54
zgoldgreenfly: oh did they ever post the app that makes that easy?03:55
luke-jrcrashanddie: it lasts 3 hours tops03:55
crashanddiezgold: definitely, not critisising that at all03:55
zgoldgreenfly: ive been meaning to do that forever03:55
reillyeongreenfly: You have a point, most non-smartphones take ~20 seconds to boot and people live with it.03:55
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crashanddieluke-jr: you're doing it wrong!03:55
luke-jrcrashanddie: Nokia won't let me do it right :(03:55
greenflyzgold: dunno, it's really easy, put avi in /usr/share/hildon-welcome/something/ and edit /etc/hildon-welcomed/default.conf to point at it03:55
zgoldgreenfly: what video did you use?  there was a really cool maemo one i saw on a talk.maemo thread that i definitely lost03:56
jacquesdptd-mob2talking from moblin2 emulated on ubuntu03:56
greenflyzgold: I took an avi of Hackers I ripped and cut out a few seconds03:56
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jacquesdptd-mob2seems to work perfectly03:56
crashanddiefuck me, there's a flood going on here in brisbane03:56
zgoldgreenfly: touche03:56
angasulesome people forget shutdown times, my samsung shuts down instantly! I mean, I'm just walking, look at it, and in the blink of an eye, puf! it's off, it's amazing, now I only have to get it to do it only when I want it to...03:56
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greenflyluke-jr: weird. mine lasts generally all day03:57
luke-jrcrashanddie: also, I got mine off ebay03:57
greenflyor at the very least until I get home (if I'm using it heavily)03:57
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, good thing you're up high in a hotel, eh?03:57
greenflybut I also don't have everything dialed all the way up, well and I don't leave all the conversations plugins on all the time03:57
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: aye03:58
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: going for a ciggy and maybe filming a bit03:58
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jacquesdptd-mob2sad to learn there4s no possibilities to run maemo on a pc04:08
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jacquesdptd-mob2or on virtualisation software04:08
microlithclosest you can get is the SDK04:09
jacquesdptd-mob2and building a versionfron it you mean ?04:10
GeneralAntillesWell, and Mer.04:10
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jacquesdptd-mob2weve been talking to me about mer can you explain me what it is M04:12
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luke-jrjacquesdptd-mob2: uh, Maemo runs in qemu if you do some magic tricks04:13
jacquesdptd-mob2yes like i did for moblin 204:14
jacquesdptd-mob2but i would prefer to find a way to install it as an os cause virtualised its verry laggy even on a very good computer04:15
luke-jroh well04:15
luke-jrbe glad Maemo is merging into Moblin I guess04:15
lcukjacquesdptd-mob2, maemo plays best on nokia hw thats the difference04:16
luke-jrMaemo only plays on Nokia hw04:16
lcukyou can run it in xephyr04:16
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jacquesdptd-mob2im actually hardly talking inempathy installed in moblin 2 fro; virtual box and wrong keyboard04:17
jacquesdptd-mob2what a lag ;)04:18
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jacquesdptd-mob2yes i knoz but then what should i choose for os for a device with sempron and nvidia chipset and resistive touch screen that im building as tablet so virtual keyboard needed and finger travelling04:19
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lcuki picked up an x41 pen tablet last year04:20
jacquesdptd-mob2me in planet to build tablets from comfortable notebooks04:22
pupnik_is the screen usable for drawing lcuk? dead spots?04:22
jacquesdptd-mob2i have the designer for the boxes and the usb panel capacitive touch screen add on04:22
pupnik_i'd be worried about that with a used x4104:22
jacquesdptd-mob2cant wait to receive my touch screen my professional bank is really interested by the project i have to do things good04:23
lcukpupnik, :( the cable is look in the twisty hinge and it rarely functions as a tablet any more, its just became the couch surfboard pc04:23
pupnik_is look?04:24
lcukmmmn is stuck04:24
jacquesdptd-mob2i wnt to make somthing more than a tablet browser thats im opting for a powerfull device04:24
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pupnik_ah ok.  well getting a decent paint prog on tablet should suffice for me04:24
lcuki ran liqbase on it for ages04:24
pupnik_need a quick way to pan image, and select brushes/colors04:24
jacquesdptd-mob2i want to group notebook / netbook / ipad / tablet-pc with user friendly interface and very beautiful customisable box04:25
lcuk  pupnik i could dig out the port04:25
* luke-jr wonders if LCDs can be compressed04:26
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jacquesdptd-mob2kitchen pc,visio conference, professional laptop, fast media center. mobility04:26
lcukluke-jr, usually with shattering results04:26
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pupnik_i have fairly specific ideas for a sketch app, like everyone seems-to :)04:27
jacquesdptd-mob2with advantages of usb connectors oppened run low level vga connector for TV video projector04:27
pupnik_though i see how yours is very good for disgrammatic/text sketching04:28
luke-jrlcuk: no, I'm thinking like N900, but with a button that makes it grow to 2-3 times the physical size...04:28
ds3<irrational>I WANT USB HOSTS!!!!</irrational>04:28
lcukluke-jr, just pull another out of your pocket04:28
luke-jrlcuk: squared.04:28
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lcukluke-jr, it scales ;)04:28
luke-jrlcuk: my pocket doesn't04:28
pupnik_ds3  that should be out this year sometime :)04:29
lcukluke-jr, there was a rollout concept somewhere04:29
luke-jrds3: hint: they said that 2 years ago04:29
ds3I don't want a pandora!04:29
ds3luke-jr: I am well aware of that04:29
* vmlemon_ waits for the iPad Shuffle 04:30
ds3pupnik_: and unless I get paid, I am not working on the USB host feature on the OpenPandora either04:30
pupnik_what do you work on?04:31
ds3me? embedded linux stuff04:31
ds3the USB hosts on OP Is a potential can of worms04:31
ds3note how Nokia has not wired it that way in any of their NITs04:32
vmlemon_Me? I'm just one of those weird Symbian (and occasionally Apple Darwin, Linux, various UNIXes and other platforms) folks, with a passing interest in the whole Maemo/MobLin/MeeGo saga...04:32
ds3can the N900 easily handle multiple DUN connections via BT?04:32
GeneralAntillesds3, use PAN instead?04:33
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ds3GA: okay, can it handle a DUN and a PAN connection at the same time?04:33
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GeneralAntillesds3, dunno.04:33
GeneralAntillesds3, but it's just BlueZ04:33
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ds3GA: I am more concerned with the UI side... there is a entire spider web of DBUS droppings around and inside BlueZ04:34
ds3the alternative is for me to build a little box that exports the USB host functionality via BT04:34
GeneralAntillesds3, there's no UI support for either.04:34
ds3GA: oh.. so all the DUN/PAN stuff that was in the N800 got chucked?04:34
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ds3well, not PAN, but the DUN stuff04:35
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GeneralAntillesYeah, since there's little point for client and host is a lot of work.04:35
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GeneralAntillesFairly straightforward to do it without the GUI, though, I hear.04:36
ds3yes, they are symetrical04:36
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jacquesdptd-mob2im actually installing madde and configuring it04:45
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jacquesdptd-mob2you agree i can build a version of maemo from it ?04:45
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jacquesdptd-mob2well what i wanted to say is that if i can contribute to the project ill do it and wont keep things for me04:48
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anamalis maemo going to die or continue to coexist along meego05:11
zgoldThink of it as an evolution, not a death =P05:11
GeneralAntillesIt's merging with Moblin to become MeeGo.05:11
anamalso what will happen to devices with maemo on them (n900) ?05:12
anamalwill they update to meego?05:12
GeneralAntillesanamal, currently unknown.05:12
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GeneralAntillesSeems likely, though.05:12
anamalthats awesome05:12
anamalgood going guys05:12
MikeJBafaik, Maemo 6 will basically just be Meego...05:14
jacquesdptd-mob2i cant get into madde05:14
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jacquesdptd-mob2i just installed it in ubuntu05:14
anamalhm but meego uses rpm, and maemo uses deb05:14
jacquesdptd-mob2i dont know to get in mad terminal05:14
MikeJBBah! Not this RPM and DEB thing again. :(05:14
GeneralAntillesMikeJB, sort of.05:14
DocScrutinizerIncredible what a shitty job nokia did on that announcement. And I always thought our OM speaksmen where on top of spoiling it05:15
jacquesdptd-mob2can anyone help me ?05:15
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MikeJBI've used Fedora for years, I've used Debian a few times, and there's no end-user difference. The main difference is "apt-get install foo" instead of "yum install foo"05:15
MikeJBIt's interesting to see in which ways Debian is more faithful to upstream packages and in which ways Fedora is, though.05:15
DocScrutinizerMikeJB: hmm, tend to agree05:15
jacquesdptd-mob2really easy apt-get ans aptitude05:16
jacquesdptd-mob2deb are the futur ?05:16
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MikeJBdeb is popular because Debian *and* Ubuntu use it.05:17
MikeJBrpm is used by Fedora and openSUSE, but openSUSE has been of declining popularity in recent years ever since Novell's deal with /s/Satan/Microsoft05:17
uhsfcould've been worse, we could have merged with android, webos or even samsung bada05:17
MikeJBSo deb has more packages, which is a moot point with meego05:17
MikeJBsince everything has to be recompiled anyway, or so I've heard.05:17
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MikeJBuhsf: Merging with Android would solve everything, actually. Native Google apps support + *real* Linux framework under it, would be my dream.05:18
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jacquesdptd-mob2thats it and thats not a problem at all05:18
jfm3Hello #maemo.  I'm trying to tether my laptop to my n900 and I'm dangerously close.  I have the bluetooth-dun package on my n900, and have edited the /etc/bluetooth/main.conf to not disable networking.  I've got blueman running on my Fedora 12 laptop and it sees the phone and NetworkManager starts trying to do stuff with it, but it ultimately fails saying "... failed to connect ...".  Any clues welcome!05:18
anamalah its been brought up eh05:19
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MikeJBAndroid is good if you like Google, and has more apps, but Maemo is truer to Linux...05:19
uhsfi disagree i hate google05:19
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: renice -10 :-P05:19
MikeJBWhich makes it tough for a Google-and-Fedora-using person to choose05:19
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microlithMikeJB: Android would only be good as a compatibility layer between X11 and a real Linux environment05:19
MikeJBuhsf: I dislike Google, but I hate Bing and Yahoo more than Google, thus limiting my choices... to Google.05:19
MikeJBJust like voting for a politician, you choose for the *least* evil.05:20
microlithor you run for office yourself05:20
uhsfwhy would any sane person need millions of apps like android or iphone05:20
jfm3microlith: you've got the right idea there05:20
uhsfi don't feel limited in apps with maemo05:20
MikeJBuhsf: Actually, Ovi Store kinda doesn't have enough apps05:20
microlithand when you can't get a majority on your own, you merge your parties!05:20
MikeJBRelative to the par.05:20
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microlithovi store doesn't have anything05:21
MikeJBIf there's one big mark against Maemo atm, it's number of apps.05:21
microlithbut extras/extras-testing is great05:21
GeneralAntillesMikeJB, stupid number05:21
uhsfthe millions android and iphones apps all suck. i prefer my old faithful linux apps anyday05:21
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anamalThe first version of MeeGo will be available in the second half of 2010, and Nokia promises a product that builds on the Nokia N900 to begin with. By using the Qt  framework, MeeGo will ensure that third-party developers will be available to reach the wide range of product types mentioned above.05:21
anamaloops sorry for the paste05:21
GeneralAntillesMikeJB, have you SEEN the sort of shit they spew onto the app stores? :P05:21
MikeJBGeneralAntilles: Yes. Flashlight apps, etc.05:22
MikeJBThe reason I say Maemo doesn't have enough is becaues it's actually lacking some useful things other stores have.05:22
uhsflike what?05:22
SpeedEviluhsf: like more than one polished game?05:22
jfm3The android app store is bullshytt.05:23
uhsfi don't game, i didn't buy the n900 for games05:23
jfm3You can barely find an SSH client in there.05:23
wiretappedanamal: i read "builds on" pessimistically05:23
MikeJB(1) lots of games actually does affect adoptation of a platform, ask all the annoying people who say "Ubuntu is great, but I like to play foo Windows games."05:23
jfm3Popularity and worthiness have never been correlated in any field of human endeavor.05:24
anamalwiretapped: haha05:24
jfm3Wish I could tether my damn f12 box though.05:24
uhsfyes human endeavor, that sounds good, i'll look up that word05:24
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phy1I also looked everywhere for a ssh client05:25
MikeJB(2) Honestly, I'm not the best person to ask, because I don't have an iPhone, a Nexus One, a Palm Pre, a WinMo 7 phone, a Blackberry whatever, and an N900 on hand right now... I left them all upstairs.05:25
MikeJB(Don't ask me about the data bill. :P)05:26
* GeneralAntilles hands wiretapped a drink.05:26
DocScrutinizerjfm3: you seen the wikipage(s)?05:26
jfm3DocScrutinizer: That's how I got this far.05:27
DocScrutinizerk. So no more helpful info here. Sorry05:27
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crashanddieit's quite interesting to be looking at the tmo threads regarding the elections05:27
crashanddieand more interesting even to see who thanked in them...05:28
crashanddieExcept for the usual bunch, not a single Maemo contributor thanked in those threads05:28
crashanddieThey don't give a shit about the Community, and now they crya bout MeeGo05:28
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, er, which thread?05:29
crashanddie and for example05:29
zgoldcrashanddie: i think its generally excepted that engineers are not always the best communicators05:29
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: exactly. /me wonders how to bother about tmo at all. Unbearable to use that webforum shit05:30
crashanddieoh feck zgold, maemo community isn't made of engineers05:30
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zgoldcrashanddie: of course not, but many of the open source coders are05:30
crashanddiezgold: this is clicking on a bloody button to thank someone for saying something useful, not requiring any particular skill05:30
zgoldcrashanddie: i dont think tis the skill.  I don't mean to be in any way rude when I say this, but i think its just the caring level05:31
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crashanddiezgold: which is different from what I said, how exactly? :P05:31
zgoldcrashanddie: my point is i dont think you can blame them for not caring05:31
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: here (on Konqueror) not even the button shows up ;-P05:32
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: get a real browser05:32
GeneralAntillesI need to find some glue for my stand magnet05:32
zgoldcrashanddie: if on one hand you had big threads of coders screaming about wanting a voice, and then in another thread them not voting or thanking, then maybe; but in general i think a silent engineer is not an anomaly05:32
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crashanddiezgold: but they're not coders or engineers, bloody hell05:33
crashanddiezgold: if you believe that the main part of the maemo community are engineers or coders, you are sorely mistaken05:33
crashanddiezgold: the biggest part these days are people who use the device, not developers.05:33
crashanddiethe most vocal, anyway05:33
crashanddiezgold: and there's really no need to preach to the choir, especially considering you have no credentials in my book!05:34
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zgoldthats fine.  I'm just a lurker who decided to chat a lot today, having been stimulated by meego.05:35
crashanddieheh, the meego mailing lists is a bit dodgy... "We have received a request from for subscription"05:35
crashanddieoh really, I'm on
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: aye sir! I assume tmo "optimized for microsoft browser"05:35
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: works fine here in either firefox or safari05:36
Basstard`"optimized for microsoft internet"05:36
crashanddie"a [...] project designed for one simple purpose: to get cars off the road." <-- Destruction derby!05:36
* GeneralAntilles cleans the crap out of his N900.05:37
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: qwerty gave a good tool on how to do it05:37
microlithGeneralAntilles: fingerprints?05:37
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GeneralAntillesmicrolith, pocket lint in the battery bay.05:37
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: basically even with that button nothing could make me check that webforum annoyance frequently05:37
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crashanddieanyway, going back to coding05:39
crashanddieHL me if needed05:39
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jacquesdptd-mob2ok rebooting05:41
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whyhias soon as i started asking that intel guy on #meego about community and saying intel are holding all the power he never chattedagain since05:41
GeneralAntilleswhyhi, he went to dinner. :P05:42
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GeneralAntilleswhyhi, honestly, they don't know any more than we do.05:42
whyhinice time for him to go lol05:42
GeneralAntilleswhyhi, because the community stuff hasn't been decided yet.05:42
whyhithey must have plan there problem is implementing without losing the support of the other i'm sure05:43
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whyhii'm just going to ride it out, i'm excite for the future just wish they announced more to put everyone on ease05:44
jacquesdptd-mob2ok seems i configured everything ok except its laggy05:44
jacquesdptd-mob2and that i need a virtual keyboard05:44
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DocScrutinizerwhyhi: +105:45
GeneralAntillesAt least for the community stuff it's being left to us.05:46
microlithtoo bad none of them are here in Folsom05:46
whyhiwe must make sure we elect strong characters in maemo elections to push our ideals forward05:47
whyhigeneral are u running05:47
GeneralAntilleswhyhi, think so.05:47
whyhiyou get my vote for sure05:47
GeneralAntillesJaffa's running too05:48
GeneralAntillesHopefully I can convince a few others to run05:48
pupnik_things are in development and flux for everyone05:49
pupnik_incl ppl at nokia and intel05:50
whyhihave you subscribed to youtube meego channel?05:50
jfm3... could I need to set up a dhcp server on the n900?05:50
pupnik_i've only got fuel for a few things.  not caring about the rest05:51
matthew-jfm3: yes05:51
whyhiheres channel if anyone as not seen it ironicly comments not allowed on videos lol05:52
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pupnik_that isn't necessarily ironic05:54
crashanddieI think neither Nokia nor Intel understand what Open Source means.05:54
microlithI think it's more that they don't grasp Free Software (or rather, they're not interested in that aspect.)05:56
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lpotterhmm.. I could have sworn Nokia released Qt under the LGPL05:57
microliththey did05:57
* pupnik_ plays with fosdem blisters05:58
whyhii think they will get there in the end they have no choice really nokia are left without a proprietary platform so they have to lear fast05:58
lpotterboth symbian and maemo are open source05:59
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johnxwhat's new?06:37
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lpotteroohh nuthin much06:43
johnxjust (more progress) on the drivers for the N8x0 and that meego thing, huh? :D06:45
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GAN900johnx, welcome back to the madhouse.06:54
GAN900What grand adventures did you get up to?06:54
johnxin summary: workworkwork. raise! woo! moving (next monday) and still waiting for my freakin' pandora :P06:55
GAN900Sounds fun06:55
johnxplayed some video games, generally relaxed a bit, spent time in the real world06:55
GAN900We're just shaking things up here06:56
johnxyup. saw the news. that's why I'm back early06:56
GAN900don't want anybody to get too comfortable.06:56
GAN900Very few answers06:56
johnxquite interested in how this will affect that project I was going to return to once I got new hardware to play with06:56
johnxreally, really stoked about intel and nokia finally working together06:56
johnxthough looking back, all the signs were there for a long time06:57
GAN900Yeah, RIP Maemo, though. :(06:57
johnxmeh. what's in a name?06:57
microlitha lot, apparently06:58
johnxthough I'm not terribly stoked about RPM...06:58
jacquesdptd-mob2wow im bulding qt librairy to process started 2 hours ago just for the make06:58
jacquesdptd-mob2is it normal ?06:59
jacquesdptd-mob2its on a fast computer06:59
jacquesdptd-mob2i mean quite fast06:59
johnxqt is not small. quite not small06:59
aziwoqpdqt takes a long time to build, especially webkit07:00
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jacquesdptd-mob2i just past that part07:04
jacquesdptd-mob2'im gonna try to build a maemo desktop version based on qt via madde07:05
GAN900johnx, a lot07:05
GAN900johnx, sounds like a Fisher Price product.07:06
jacquesdptd-mob2when we are building stuff if i understood well we can share them on mer that's it ?07:06
johnxif the name is the biggest complaint, we're doing pretty darn good I think07:06
jacquesdptd-mob2wich name meego ?07:06
jacquesdptd-mob2or maemo ?07:06
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jacquesdptd-mob2i like it a lot07:07
johnx(and yes, the name is stupider than even moblin)07:07
GAN900johnx, it's not, but it's the one that's got me most depressed.07:07
jacquesdptd-mob2i dont see why ppl would be complaining07:07
jacquesdptd-mob2or they ?07:07
johnxwith moblin at least we had a chance of the mascot being the moblin goblin07:07
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johnxdunno. meego sounds pretty silly to my ears07:07
jacquesdptd-mob2a question, meego is moblin + maemo that's it ?07:08
jacquesdptd-mob2is it made with madde ?07:08
GeneralAntillesjacquesdptd-mob2, part of it is because a lot of us have a lot of attachment with Maemo and
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jacquesdptd-mob2i think it's different and maemo will be continuing as long as ppl work  on it07:09
anamalto me maemo sounds the best07:09
jacquesdptd-mob2if maemo is evolving meego will still be new maemo + moblin07:09
johnxerrr, the people who getting paid to work on maemo are now working on meego (AFAICT)07:09
jacquesdptd-mob2you think ppl that bought a noka n900 will be able to update there devices to meego then ?07:10
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johnxnope. probably not07:10
johnx(officially at least)07:10
johnxthat was already settled back in october though07:10
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johnxOTOH, maemo5+qt4.6 and meego+qt4.6 are supposed to be pretty compatible (again, AFAIK)07:11
GeneralAntillesjohnx, actually, current winds seem to be moving in the "Yes, possibly" direction.07:11
jacquesdptd-mob2second question, i'm searching for this type of os but for a fast computer transform in a tablet resistive touch screen of 15 inch screen with good nvidia chipset, i would like a finger useable interface smooth plenty of effect07:11
jacquesdptd-mob2anyody's got and idea of something i might be not knowing ?07:11
GeneralAntillesIt's much more likely now with MeeGo than it was a week ago, though, so.07:11
jacquesdptd-mob2so ?07:12
johnxGeneralAntilles, if meego for n900 materializes, I'll be pleasantly surprised07:12
GeneralAntillesjohnx, so, basically, combing through damn near every scrap of information and chatter that's come up today.07:13
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it sounds like the issue is still down to multitouch and that they're likely still undecided.07:13
GeneralAntillesMeeGo pretty clearly pushes away from the multi issue.07:13
jacquesdptd-mob2multitouch will make producers of device like me obliged to buy sensitive screen07:13
johnxif you say so. I think the clearest thing is that companies don't like putting a lot of time into things that don't make them money07:14
jacquesdptd-mob2wich are a lot more expensive07:14
jacquesdptd-mob2saddly you're right07:14
GeneralAntillesjohnx, in a short-sighted sense, anyway.07:14
jacquesdptd-mob2reducing cost price = reducing sell price07:14
johnxjacquesdptd-mob2, sorry, I was talking to GeneralAntilles. I have no real feeling on multitouch accept that "it makes good demo"07:15
jacquesdptd-mob2ok so another question , what would be better on meego between moblin i'm running on ?07:15
johnxGeneralAntilles, find me a company that's not consistently not short-sighted07:16
jacquesdptd-mob2johnx you're right plus there's not usb panel kit sensitive touch add07:16
GeneralAntillesjohnx, to a certain extent I'd argue Apple is one of them.07:16
jacquesdptd-mob2it's only resitive07:16
johnxpeople will be making apps for meego two years from now. they won't be making them for moblin07:16
jacquesdptd-mob2i must admit i have an iphone and sensitive screen are really much appreciated to navigage07:17
jacquesdptd-mob2and itneract07:17
johnxGeneralAntilles, yeah. it looks like they've set up a game plan where they plan to do this stuff in advance though07:17
jacquesdptd-mob2for a finger use07:17
johnxGeneralAntilles, also, a big part of apple's business plan includes "making people think we're awesome"07:18
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it isn't all RDF, however.07:18
johnxand they're not afraid to throw lots of money into R&D07:18
jacquesdptd-mob2that's it07:18
jacquesdptd-mob2but remember that if you're too scarry to fight with sames weapon that you do not agree that they can be used, you'll get beaten07:19
johnx"we need more expertise on ARM systems in house, so we'll just go out and buy PA Semi"07:19
GeneralAntillesjohnx, that A4 is a damn impressive piece of hardware, though.07:20
simulahow much ram does a4 use?07:20
johnxcortex A9 + ??? GPU07:20
jacquesdptd-mob2i think there's a big place to make a big website selling everything to make is own touch / mid /net,notbook devices07:20
johnxthe impressive part is that the first one shipping an A9 unless I'm quite mistaken07:20
jacquesdptd-mob2i mean motherboard boxes everything well07:20
GeneralAntillesWhich makes it the first large-scale production ARM SoC to use either.07:20
GeneralAntillesand the Mali07:20
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GeneralAntillesWhich pretty severely kicks ImagTech's ass.07:21
johnxbut the PVR architecture is sooo coooool07:21
* johnx really wanted it to win out07:21
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jacquesdptd-mob2you dont recommand me to use arm proc on a bigger device like a tablet of 15 inch screen07:21
whyhiA9 the 2GHz chip set?07:22
simulaA9 is 2Ghz?07:22
jacquesdptd-mob2supposed to multitask and be used on a professional or family way07:22
GeneralAntillesI think it's 1GHz, actually.07:22
whyhii was just reading an announcement regarding A9 i think let me find it07:23
simulayeah, dual 1Ghz07:23
jacquesdptd-mob2whynot, problem will then be for the powerfull 3d chipset07:23
johnxjacquesdptd-mob2, what resolution screen are you intending to drive? what kind of movie/graphics capabilities are you targeting? what kind of CPUs can you use (ie, do you need specific features of the OMAP3 that make it good for small runs)?07:23
jacquesdptd-mob2my tablet have to be able to run a compiz like interface07:23
johnxjacquesdptd-mob2, and you're designing the mainboard yourself?07:24
* RST38h moos at johnx evilly. Knew the MeeGo announcement will smoke him out to IRC again =)07:24
johnxRST38h, heh. alright, you've lured me back in, and all it took was manipulating your employer to play nice with nokia :P07:25
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GeneralAntilleswhyhi, 2GHz is just the upper limit for A9.07:25
RST38hjohnx: yea, yea...right...07:25
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RST38hjohnx: RedHat though... You know I could not have done that...07:26
johnxRST38h, really? I always felt redhat was closer to slackware than debian was (or were you more gentoo than slackware?)07:26
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whyhiheres the article i was reading earlier
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jacquesdptd-mob2johnnx not at all im working with notebook stuff07:29
jacquesdptd-mob2that's why arm won't fit07:29
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microlithquad core A9? Thank you very much.07:29
whyhistill a while away but its a beast07:31
johnxjacquesdptd-mob2, well, then that answers your question. if you're stuck with using a whole board you're basically down to 1) intel stuff or 2) openRD or 3) beagleboard07:31
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crashanddie~join #meego07:37
crashanddie<infobot> I am not allowed to join #meego.07:37
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, talk to TimRiker.07:37
crashanddieinfobot: do you always do what your parents told you?07:37
infobotyes, I always do what your parents told you.07:37
whyhitraitor lol07:37
crashanddieinfobot: wanker07:37
infobot[wanker] giving the palm pilot a flight, massaging Kojak's head. Fuck, someone pass me the tissues.07:38
whyhii'm sure i said i was going to bet 2 hours ago finished that vodka i opened only meant to have a glass07:39
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qgilhi there07:39
johnxwhyhi, drink some water first :P07:39
GeneralAntillesmorning qgil07:39
johnxhey qgil :)07:40
qgilsomeone willing to have a chat about MeeGo?07:40
crashanddiehey johnx & qgil07:40
GeneralAntillesqgil, have been all day.07:40
qgilthis must be the less noisy time of the "day" at #maemo  :)07:40
johnxallo crashanddie07:40
crashanddieqgil: about 300 people in #meego want to07:40
* GeneralAntilles is still super confused.07:40
johnxqgil, love to :)07:40
whyhiyea i will vodka and coke gives lot of acid07:40
qgilah ok, you're right07:40
qgilI could just go there07:40
qgilso are you all at #meego?07:40
crashanddiepretty much07:41
johnxall of us who matter07:41
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crashanddiejohnx: i like your attitude07:41
johnxthat's good. I like my attitude too :)07:42
Proteoushey now07:42
jacquesdptd-mob2beagle board are not sufficient i guess07:42
RST38hjohnx: Being close to Slackware is not a compliment07:42
jacquesdptd-mob2heard enlightnment is made to fit perfectly with beagle board07:42
* RST38h is a BSD guy07:42
johnxRST38h, well, we can both agree on that07:42
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: How long have I been screaming that Maemo's biggest issue was the fact that there were too many toolkits, languages and fragmented libraries all over the place?07:51
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, dunno, I tuned it out. :P07:52
johnxcrashanddie, at the very least I'm with you in that I agree on intelkia (noktel?) are best of "blessing" one of each "thing" (one toolkit, pkg format, build env, sdk, type of sandwich, etc)07:53
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crashanddieWith regards to the whole rpm vs deb war, I'd like to say: Opinions are like asshole, everybody's got one. Now that's not a reason to shove yours in my face, is it?07:53
johnxbig fan of deb, but if that's one of the points nokia had to concede to intel, then it was well worth it07:55
uhsfthere isn't too many maemo toolkits. gtk vs. qt is just that perpetual linux wide futile duality. there's not much that can be done about it07:55
johnxthis just means meego has all the more momentum as a real first-class desktop that other distros will be supporting07:55
RST38hjohnx: RedHat base will be a huge minus though07:56
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uhsfas for pkg, i'm a fan of arch's pacman. way better than any debs, portage or rpm. but who am i to impose my opinion07:56
Triztit's just a question about taste and there is nothing that will prevent someone to install another package manager and use it :P07:58
johnxRST38h, gnome started in RH-land and debuntu has adopted it quite well. I have a feeling with enough hands working on packaging it's not too big a deal to end up with something meego-based in $your_fav_distro07:58
johnxuhsf, heh. I actually like the OE/opkg system. it's super easy, but I'm not a big fan of building everything from the ground up07:59
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johnxFWIW, a nice intel-person told me they wanted to work together with maemo/nokia almost a year ago and I wrote them off as optimistic :)08:01
crashanddiejohnx: when I moved to London, I wanted to get an interview with OpenedHand as they worked on Maemo for Nokia. When I arrived I never even got an interview, as Intel had bought them and frozen all hiring.08:02
crashanddiejohnx: this was 2 years ago now08:02
RST38hcrash: Ho ho ho08:03
crashanddieA guy in #moblin confirmed to me that indeed, a lot of their expertise was brought over to Moblin08:03
johnxthe intel-person I talked to was actually working in the moblin project and visited the mer booth I was running at LinuxFest NorthWest :)08:03
crashanddiejohnx: don't say that08:03
crashanddiehas a pretty bad connotation in Europe08:04
crashanddieNorthwest is where lcuk comes from, you see08:04
GeneralAntillesGreat movie. :P08:04
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jacquesdptd-mob2seems this guy who's getting me ashamed of being french with this horrible accent he has, has made exactly what i was going to do but thank to him he didn't made everything i was about to make :)08:23
jacquesdptd-mob2saddly i can't link the pasteboard08:25
jacquesdptd-mob2on virtuabox08:25
jacquesdptd-mob2i won't be able to past the video08:25
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jacquesdptd-mob2the video is called on you tube always innovating touchbook - the coolest computer ever!!!08:26
RST38htouchbook, hehe, tell that to Macer08:26
jacquesdptd-mob2i even don't care about macer08:27
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jacquesdptd-mob2im so much hesitating with that beagle board08:27
jacquesdptd-mob2seems it's the future08:27
jacquesdptd-mob2but for now it aint powerfull enought for the interface i want to have, i want to make a very classy perfect device08:28
jacquesdptd-mob2but he has some good ideas08:28
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johnxlenovo is doing something touchbook-like as well08:30
jacquesdptd-mob2his interface is really horrible, i'm starting from the idea that don't try to use a 3d rendering effect interface if it's even a little little bit laggy08:30
jacquesdptd-mob2i think it's wasting everything08:30
* RST38h excuses himself08:30
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johnxRST38h, :)08:30
Stskeeps really illustrates the community is adapting08:30
jacquesdptd-mob2better to use a non composite rendering for that kind of stuff08:31
Chikuwhat will be happend to maemo with meego?08:31
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wormsxullahello, people. can you see this on the n900? (i'm making tests)08:34
wormsxullaseeing it animated, i mean08:35
Chikuun shadok08:35
wormsxullaoué :p08:35
Chikuno animation firefox 3.608:35
wormsxullaargh. about:config: svg.smil.enabled set to true?08:36
Chikuneed to restart firefox?08:37
wormsxullai don't think so. refreshing should be enough08:37
Chikupas d'animation08:37
wormsxullad*mn. this is bad news :-(08:37
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wormsxullaso maemo doesn't support smil?08:38
ChikuI'm not testing on my nokia08:38
Chikuon my desktop computer08:38
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wormsxulla*then* your desktop has no excuse! (and i don't understand)08:39
wormsxullamaybe relaunch firefox (but i don't think this should be necessary)08:39
jacquesdptd-mob2there's mer place in france ?08:40
Chikuhum animation is text appartition?08:41
wormsxullaChiku: no, there is a cloud coming from the right, rain falling, etc. you don't see anything?08:41
Chikuon my nokia I see text displayed later08:41
wormsxullayes, the bottom text comes at the end08:41
wormsxullaChiku: what OS are you on?08:42
Chikutext in on top of pict08:42
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ChikuOS on desktop?08:42
wormsxullathat text is always there, it is not animated08:42
wormsxullapr1.1 ?08:42
Chikumaemo 508:42
wormsxulla(pardon my french :p )08:42
Chikusur mon pc c'est seven 6408:42
jacquesdptd-mob2ya ds francais cool08:43
jacquesdptd-mob2i need french people to work with me08:43
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Chikutu veux que je teste sur un freebsd et ubuntu ou debian ? j'ai ca aussi08:43
Chikumais la flemme de les allumer08:43
Triztit's not animated in ff3.6 either, maybe you did forget to save it properly?08:43
wormsxullaChiku: oui, please. and actually i still don't get what your desktop is using08:44
jacquesdptd-mob2we're talking aout an animated .sg ?08:44
jacquesdptd-mob2.svg ?08:44
wormsxullaTrizt: it's working for others :-(08:44
wormsxullajacquesdptd-mob2: yes08:44
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Triztin chromium it seems to anim, not ff08:44
jacquesdptd-mob2made with inkscape ?08:44
Chikubreakfast,... I will be late08:44
jacquesdptd-mob2cause that's a known issue08:45
jacquesdptd-mob2btw not sure ff is supporting animated .svg08:45
jacquesdptd-mob2chrome is08:45
wormsxullajacquesdptd-mob2: no, with svg-edit, and handcoding with smil08:45
wormsxullaTrizt: thanks (for the chromium test)08:45
jacquesdptd-mob2should be cheked with the new safari08:46
jacquesdptd-mob2gimme back the adress08:46
jacquesdptd-mob2i must have a mac somewhere08:46
jacquesdptd-mob2ok just waiting my iphone to finish erasing the zero space08:46
Triztwormsxulla; opera 10 works too08:46
jacquesdptd-mob2in 2 minutes08:46
wormsxullaTrizt: :)08:47
jacquesdptd-mob2opera is supporting it08:47
jacquesdptd-mob2in 2 minutes i tell you if it works in safari08:47
Triztwormsxulla; with konqueror4 you will see all the parts displayed at once, no anim08:47
jacquesdptd-mob2gonna test in konkeror during this time08:47
wormsxullaTrizt: hehe08:47
jacquesdptd-mob2oh ok08:47
wormsxullakonqueror is on ubuntu?08:48
Triztwormsxulla; seamonkey 1 you get the first frame and there I did run out of browsers on my machine08:48
wormsxullaTrizt: yeah, seamonkey 1.x doesn't support smil at all08:48
jacquesdptd-mob2kuuntu yes08:48
jacquesdptd-mob2its prolly everywhere on a linux based systeme08:48
wormsxullayou'd need sm2.0.2 and i'm not even sure it supports smil (sm is my browser of choice, though)08:49
jacquesdptd-mob2just need to install kde and konqueror08:49
luke-jrwhy would a browser support SMIL?08:49
Stskeeps <- semi-announcement of the MBX driver availability08:49
wormsxullaluke-jr: because it's implemented after svg, and firefox's implementation isn't even complete08:50
luke-jras in, 12 year old SMIL??08:50
wormsxullaso the animation can't be seen at all on a n900? :-(08:51
wormsxullaluke-jr: yup!08:51
ChikuStskeeps, what will happend to maemo with meego ?08:51
wormsxullabut you know what they say: "it's the future!" (and it's "easy" to code, compared to javascript)08:51
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Chikumoblin and maemo will drop fro meego?08:52
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Chikudoes what merging mean?08:52
StskeepsChiku: all good questions08:53
doc|home meego = we go? :)08:54
jacquesdptd-mob2ok usb bootable moblin created and started08:54
jacquesdptd-mob2but except the grub boot menu it doesnt seems to be starting08:54
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wormsxullajacquesdptd-mob2: is it funny? ;)08:58
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jacquesdptd-mob2really yes09:00
jacquesdptd-mob2i'm doing 10 stuff at a time09:00
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jacquesdptd-mob2this zero erasing stuff for iphone is a good good thing it's really faster now and it just finished09:01
Chikujacques a dit : coucher09:01
jacquesdptd-mob2for themoblin i'm gonna have to change tboot command not a problem09:01
Chikumoblin on n900 ?09:01
jacquesdptd-mob2ok testing your page on safari09:01
Chikudo you know the "jacques a dit" ?09:02
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uhsfi know, i'm french09:03
Chikuil y a trop de francais ici09:03
uhsfwhat's the english name for that game i don't remember?09:03
Chikusimons says09:04
jacquesdptd-mob2that's great, i see it on my iphone, gonna use those animated.svg09:04
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jacquesdptd-mob2except it's a bit laggy it can replace animation flash or java for iphone based websites09:05
jacquesdptd-mob2good news09:05
potterDoes anyone know the classic rock song/artist that's at the very end of this video?
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jacquesdptd-mob2not hearing enought09:07
jacquesdptd-mob2was happy to see youtube perfectly working on moblin 2 on virtuablbox on ubuntu09:08
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GeneralAntillesYouTube HTML5 beta is nice.09:10
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jacquesdptd-mob2i was just totally right09:11
jacquesdptd-mob2i made moblin working on usb live boot on a sempron 2000 and nvidia chipset and it works perfectly09:11
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kamalI am new to Maemo and Linux environment09:15
johnxwelcome kamal :)09:15
kamalI would like to know how to install 3rd party application on N90009:16
kamalwithout using GPRS or Wireless connection09:16
ensiis there a .deb built for N900?09:16
ensiif you have the .deb09:16
ensisudo gainroot09:16
ensidpkg -i foobar.dev09:16
kamalno I don't have09:17
ensibut then again if you havent enabled R&D mode that wont work09:17
ensiand then i cant help :)09:17
kamalhow do I get itwhat is R&D mode and where can I find more info on it09:17
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ml-mobilewhy can you not use wireless?09:17
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ensikamal: install rootsh09:18
kamalI don't have access to one now. I was wondering is there any way we can do it as we do for symbian phones09:18
kamalby transfering the sis file09:18
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kamaland then installing it09:18
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ensikamal: yes but you need the .deb09:19
ensilike i said before09:19
ml-mobileyou can, but I recommend against it09:19
johnxon Maemo 5 (the N900's OS) the application manager counts on being able to automatically install any other packages that a program "depends" on09:19
johnxso, even if you get the ".deb" file for a specific program, you have to solve the "dependencies" yourself and get all of those .deb files as well09:20
qgillast question if you ahve a new topic? then I must really go onto other meeGo things09:21
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ensihmm, i have an app that i want started on boot automatically, i guess I just make a script in /etc/rc2.d ?09:21
qgilsilence, so not too bad  :)09:21
johnxqgil, thanks for taking the time to brave the waters and answer questions :)09:22
Stskeepssilence about meego in #maemo? ;)09:22
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GeneralAntillesDid they push PR1.1.1?09:23
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kamalsay if I want to download the deb file for Capsule mentioned in this link     How do I get it?09:23
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GeneralAntillesLikely a staggered global rollout again if so, so I'm in a position to know last.09:24
kamalwhen I download I get an .install file09:24
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i don't see anything09:24
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, Talk must just be seeing things again.09:24
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it's the meego socialist cabal putting things in our water09:25
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johnxkamal, you open the .install in a text editor, and manually go through the "repository" it mentions to find your files09:25
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konttori_workso, did everybody go apeshit about yesterdays announcement?09:26
tybolltyes, yes we did09:26
tybolltwe've gone ape AND monkeyshit09:26
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Stskeepskonttori_work: you have no idea how many discussions about rpm vs deb people have had..09:26
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jacquesdptd-mob2starting an install09:27
GeneralAntilleskonttori_work, I'm still apeshit.09:27
tybolltseriously though, I think a lot of FUD right now and the comming week is inevitable seeing as how Nokia is kind of dodging questions right now.09:27
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Stskeepstybollt: otoh, nokia doesn't have all the answers, the plans are out of their hands atm09:27
Stskeepsand has to be weighed with well, meego community09:28
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tybolltStskeeps: Not talking about Meego per se. Meego to mee is an interesting project in the future. But as a device owner I have some amount of money invested and so I'm left speculating about the fate of it.09:29
Stskeepstybollt: i will personally try to help get meego on n900 if it doesn't happen from vendor side.09:29
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tybolltStskeeps: sure, thanks, lovely.09:29
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tybolltStskeeps: I still think if Ari would've announced say "don't worry there will still be support for N900 phones" that'd comforted a fair few who right now may be a bit worried.09:30
GeneralAntillestybollt, problem is, that, too, seems to be up in the air.09:31
tybolltinstead people get edgy and go on here and other places and get foul mouthed :(09:31
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GeneralAntillesNokia really just needs to decide either way.09:32
GeneralAntilles(preferably the sane and justifiable one, but)09:32
jacquesdptd-mob2redimensionning wow i m scared09:32
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kejenhi, does anyone know where the dictionary lives? Wanted to take some words out09:33
jacquesdptd-mob2am i going to loose my ubuntu installation (i dont care its  a test machine)09:33
Stskeepskejen: in older versions you could tap-and-hold and remove09:34
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ShadowJKI just woke up. I was having a nightmare; people were still whining about packaging.09:35
* ShadowJK sighs and goes back to bed09:35
StskeepsShadowJK: they still do09:35
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kejenonly shows me cut, copy, and paste. Gotta be a text file somewhere i would think. Kinda like browser_typed_urls09:36
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GeneralAntillesNight folks09:37
konttori_workStskeeps, I heard about that also yesterday for the first time. I can imagine the comments.09:39
mecehello. What's this new update people are talking about?09:39
konttori_workfact is that n900 will have really great lifetime support.09:39
mecekonttori_work, that's nice to hear :)09:40
konttori_workit will come with qt4.6, (and later full web runtime support), so you should be able to develop content on n900 that will work the same on MeeGo Devices, of course, packaging will have the be done again, but that's life.09:40
Stskeepskonttori_work: i'm really astonished noone picked up on the fact DUI works on N90009:40
Stskeepsthen again, all the announcements came in a bundle09:41
konttori_workyes, that's also interesting point.09:41
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Stskeepsmaemo6 UI framework09:41
Stskeepskonttori_work: random question, there hasn't been a Maemo5 update today, right?09:42
Stskeepskonttori_work: people are seeing things but we think it's not true09:42
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konttori_workStskeeps, not sure... there should be one this week, but I don't know the date.09:43
Stskeepsah, PR1.1.109:43
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Stskeepsseems so, it's on nokia_N900.php09:43
* Netrum checking09:43
mecenothing here tho..09:44
itdockupdating to new maemo09:44
threshnot for me :(09:44
itdockgood that i stayed up so early09:45
itdock2:45 am here09:45
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itdockit says restart to complete installation09:45
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itdockmm need my usb cable09:46
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SouBEI'm excited about MeeGo. I hope they make all MeeGo programs portable to all MeeGo platform, even if vendors use different front end UIs09:48
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SouBEthat would suck if apps became desktop UI spesific09:49
X-FadeSouBE: Well, that is not possible anyway.09:50
X-FadeSouBE: A small screen on a phone is so different from a netbook etc.09:50
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X-FadeSouBE: Just doesn't make sense to have it the same.09:50
threshis extras-devel still broken?09:50
* itdock is drunk, hopes he doesn't break his n900 with this update09:51
Netrumits doesnt show upp on my phone yet, nor on nsu. not sure if it should even show upp in nsu.. (i hate asking questions...)09:51
X-Fadethresh: Should not? What was broken?09:51
threshyeah, it still is.09:51
threshW: Failed to fetch  Hash Sum mismatch09:51
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X-Fadethresh: Doesn't do that for me.09:52
threshit does from Russia, it seems. I'm not the only one.09:52
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X-Fadethresh: The origin doesn't have that problem, so it must be in the caching network.09:53
threshyeah, have that for week already?09:53
adeusthat has worked for me when I have had it09:53
adeusno guarantees09:53
threshno, i'd prefer that fixed09:53
threshthan hacking around09:54
X-Fadethresh: Really? That is weird.09:54
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threshX-Fade: A-ha. what should I file a bug against?09:54
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X-Fadethresh: When I test from a few countries I don't have that problem.09:55
jacquesdptd-mob2boring vga=current09:55
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threshI do, from Moscow. A friend of mine from Saint Petersburg has the same problem.09:55
jacquesdptd-mob2a chance i can run lowlevel 309:55
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threshX-Fade: and i have this on different ISPs, so it couldnt be a network caching problem09:56
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adeusunless they actually use the same cache09:56
threshi meant squid or something09:56
X-Fadethresh: I will request an akamai flush, let's see if that fixes it.09:56
threshX-Fade: thanks!09:56
X-Fadethresh: Can you show me the http headers of the fetch?09:57
X-Fadethresh: wget -S --delete-after
X-Fadethresh: In a pastebin ;)09:58
threshX-Fade: sure,
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X-Fadethresh: I see exactly the same and it works for me?09:59
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threshwell, how does apt check the hash sum?10:02
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threshmy md5 sum of Packages.gz is b42efbc2b291308be80d1eae5cc9dd1b10:03
X-Fadethresh: Release file10:03
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threshhmm, it matches the one in Releae :/10:04
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X-Fadethresh: Uhm.. that is even weirder :)10:05
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SouBEI had in Helsinki hash sum mismatch maybe a week back in time, but it's gone now10:08
threshX-Fade: hmmm, manually removing all apt lists seems to have fixed the issue10:08
threshdebian's apt is beyond me10:08
adeusso you have no repositories now? :)10:09
threshno, but I'm hitting now :-)))10:09
povbot`Bug 8702: GPG error when updating Extras from repository.maemo.org10:09
SouBEjust remember to reboot you device often enough :P10:10
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SouBEI had strange hardware errors in kernel log. reboot helped10:10
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X-Fadethresh: I have found the issue in the caching network.10:21
threshX-Fade: nice, so it wasnt a local misconfiguration then?10:22
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X-Fadethresh: No, it is because of the cache duration on the mirrors.10:22
threshX-Fade: maybe you also know a solution for i'm experiencing now? :-)10:22
povbot`Bug 8702: GPG error when updating Extras from repository.maemo.org10:22
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X-Fadethresh: They are caching for 30 minutes, but the start time is not synchronized.10:22
X-Fadethresh: So there is a race condition there.10:22
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hrw|n900did nokia told anything about meego for n900? I am on gprs so did not read any tmo talks10:24
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hrw|n900like I thoug10:24
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X-Fadethresh: By waiting max an hour this should be fixed once an for all.10:26
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X-Fadethresh: I have changed the config, but you need to wait until your local edge server times out.10:27
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kejeneven though qt is going to be the main ui for future maemo/meego...gtk apps can still be ran correct?10:28
X-Fadekejen: gtk can always be installed. No matter what.10:28
X-Fadekejen: It might not look as native, but that is just theming.10:28
threshX-Fade: alright.10:29
kejennice, would hate to lose pidgin10:29
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itdockpiding seems to be a battery hog to me10:30
X-FadeI see no need for pidgin now we have the contacts/conversation plugins. But yeah, you could run it.10:30
itdockwish there was a reconnect now button on contacts/convs10:31
kejenwhich plugins?10:32
X-Fadekejen: What networks do you use?10:32
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johnxX-Fade, on n900, I'd have to agree. until the conversations UI is open though, pidgin (or empathy) will probably be necessary on meego-based devices from comapnies other than nokia10:32
kejenjabber and need to be able to join chats is my only concern10:32
X-Fadekejen: Supported by default.10:33
X-Fadejohnx: It is good enough for me now, but your needs might be different.10:34
johnxright now, it's good enough for me too ;)10:34
johnxjust saying, there is still a reason for pidgin-hildon to exist10:34
X-Fadejohnx: It works and doesn't eat battery. Fine by me :)10:34
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kejenyeah, got onto jabber conversation out of the box. But didnt see how to join chats. I will play with it in the morning10:36
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threshX-Fade: mmm seems to have fixed 8702 as well :-)10:37
threshX-Fade: thank you!10:37
X-Fadethresh: that was a race condition between Release and Release.gpg10:37
X-Fadethresh: In the caching network.10:37
threshwhy oh why it is always me10:38
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X-Fadethresh: You might actually be 2 cache layers away.10:38
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ensii add this script to /etc/event.d/10:46
ensibut why the hell the application isn't started?10:46
ensi(on reboot)10:46
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ensiit does try to connect to xserver, but shouldnt that be running at that point10:47
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ShadowJKmy  n900 hung, I pulled battery and on reboot cellular and wifi doesn't work10:49
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* itdock is restoring apps after nokia software updater on n90010:51
itdock4 am10:51
itdockdon't want to sleep10:51
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ShadowJKnot enough patiene to wait for ssu?10:52
JaffaMorning, all10:52
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itdockcouldn't OTA, don't feel like sorting out my extras-devel stuff10:52
tybolltsorry but I've had it w/ meego astroturfing for now :)10:52
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mecetybollt, MeeGo? this is MAEMO!! (*300)10:57
johnxtybollt, eh. you missed my reply. believe me, I'm the last one to fall on Intel's side, but if meego fails it won't be related to closed source drivers ;)10:58
tybolltmece: hence why I left #meego ;)10:58
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lardmanonion: ping11:01
lardmanand morning all11:01
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lardmanso Qt'ers, is there a delegate that will render images in a table?11:05
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lardmanand not just a decoration icon to go along with some text (unless said icon can be made much larger than the text)11:06
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rlinfati2010-2 firmware? ¿?11:12
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Corsacone good thing about that meego stuff is that it may mean that scratchbox will be dropped altogether11:13
lardmanyeah, but to be replaced by what?11:14
tybolltrlinfati: ???11:14
X-Fadelardman: OBS :)11:14
* lardman googles that11:14
X-Fadelardman: And developing inside the OS itself.11:14
threshrpm ftw11:14
lardmanah right11:14
tybolltrpm ftl!111111:14
alteregoYeah, hopefully there'll be qemu images maybe.11:15
mecethis is maemo11:15
lardmanthat won't handle specific devicisms tho11:15
* mece is just sayin'11:15
LantiziaIs there a way Maemo can continue along side Meego?11:15
Corsacwell, developing inside the OS is kind-of hard when you want to test hw features11:15
lardmanah ok, still qemu, ok11:15
X-Fadealterego: Yeah, that would be good.11:15
alteregolardman: well, neither does scratchbox ;)11:15
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LantiziaSince I don't really care about a MeeGo core11:15
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meceLantizia, I guess N900 will still run maemo11:15
alteregoI'm hoping for qemu images, ia32 and arm for the maemo/meego instances.11:15
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Lantiziamece: I already have that - but I don't want work on Maemo to stop11:16
Corsacia32 is dead!11:17
LantiziaMeeGo is not a continuation of Maemo... it is Moblin with Qt... that is all11:17
tybolltia64 ftw!111111:17
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Corsacatom handles perfectly fine x86_6411:17
tybolltmece: not if Stskeeps has anything to say about it...11:17
tybolltnot the early atoms11:18
mecetybollt, Stskeeps is bringing meego to N900?11:18
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Stskeepsmece: if noone else is, i would certainly help out11:18
tybolltmece: he said he'd give it his best shot... a brave endeavour indeed.11:18
meceman I hate that name. MeeGo. Sounds like Microsoft meets Apple.11:18
meceStskeeps, I definately want it.11:18
alteregomece: really? I thought it sounded like Microsoft meets Google.11:19
alteregoAre we going to have a Go language implementation on MeeGo ^.^11:19
mecealterego, lol.. how about apple meets google?11:19
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jacquesdptd-mob2got it all working well great11:21
meceI'm very positive about MeeGo, It's just that I really like the Maemo maemo and really don't like the MeeGo name11:21
meceJacquesdptd-mob2, what is working great?11:21
jacquesdptd-mob2dont need meego ubuntu-moblin-remix is better for a real laptop transformed to tablet11:22
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jacquesdptd-mob2except maemo is maybe running faster so meego may be faster than ubuntu-moblin-remix11:23
meceI'm guessing the ubuntu-moblin-remix wont work on phones..11:24
meceanyone got PR1.1.1 from HAM btw?11:24
jacquesdptd-mob2yeah sure i notificate it was better for my touchbook , a real laptop transform to tablet11:24
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kejenyeah, meego is a horrible name11:26
jacquesdptd-mob2i think i'm gonna install a basic kubuntu + compiz solution that will run virtually the moblin ui on one of the cube face and then i'll have to find 2 other UI for the other 2 faces restings11:26
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kejensounds like some car or bike for a little kid11:26
jacquesdptd-mob2and i'll have the best reason of choosing fast hardware even if the device is bigger11:26
ShadowJKmece: considering there's a guy running fedora on n900...11:26
meceI really hope MeeGo will deliver on the multiple hardware front. This would be a good time to launch a nice big Nokia Tablet since Apple's iPad hyped up the market and failed to deliver.11:27
meceShadowJK, is it a phone?11:27
jacquesdptd-mob2that said i can't be waiting to see devices as small as iphones running meego as smooth as iphone runs osx mobile11:27
jacquesdptd-mob2advantages of meego are simple compared to iphone : multitasking user friendly, flash ?, battery time maybe ? and open source and what seems to be a good community11:29
meceShadowJK, I mean can you make phonecalls with fedora?11:30
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itdocki love my n900 but wish it was 1/2 as thick11:31
itdockperhaps a bit bigger screen11:31
ShadowJKmece: he said he was close :)11:32
nid0wish mine was e90-sized with matching keyboard :(11:32
meceShadowJK, cool. Very!11:32
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* lbt_ wishes it had a berillium crystal too11:32
itdocke90 is too big11:32
meceShadowJK, well I guess it would be easiert to get MeeGo on N900 then fedora :)11:32
itdocki don't have a purse to put it in11:32
nid0e90's perfectly pocketable11:32
itdockif you're a giant.11:33
nid0im a whopping 5 foot 811:33
Stskeepsmece: fedora is on n900 already11:33
Stskeepsmece: jebba ported11:33
ShadowJKe90 is like a SUV. It does most things badly, but it's expensive, looks big and badass, and automatically makes your penis bigger11:34
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threshso it's worth buying11:34
itdockis that a phone in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?11:34
nid0in fairness, it only really does most things not-so-well because it runs symbian, the hardware and particularly the keyboard are fantastic11:34
meceStskeeps, yeah, I just meant that if fedora is already there, meego should be easy, even if nok doesn't do it themselves.11:35
Shapeshifterso i dont get what i have to do so that the location widget or de ovi maps app follow my current position. i just want a dot moving on the map....11:35
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ShadowJKwell it's N810-era hardware too11:35
Shapeshifterim on the train right now and the location thing shows my position but whenthe train moves nothing happens on the map11:35
ShadowJKYou've got no gps signal probably11:36
ShadowJK(and ovi maps gives up after 30 secs)11:36
mecehey I actually have a programming issue, perhaps someone can help me with this.11:37
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tybolltw/ meego nokia bought out of needing to ever give us proper ovi (maps, calendar, addy book you name it) ever I suppose =)11:37
itdocknah i think nokia will still do it11:37
itdockthey have to11:37
lardmanI think companies will still need to add value with their own apps11:38
tybollt"they have to"...11:38
itdockplus they spent billions to buy navteq, they better put it to good use11:38
ShadowJKwhat do you mean proper ovi?11:38
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lardmananyway, have we got new Ovi Maps yet, just out of interest?11:38
itdocknot yet11:38
tybolltovi maps, ove calendar, ovi you-name-it =)11:38
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itdocknext week one hopes?11:38
lardmanany reason for that hope?11:39
mecein python, I'm debugging my widget, and I need error output, so I set sys.stderr = open('asdf/asdf/error.log', 'a')11:39
mecebut how do I close it?11:39
jacquesdptd-mob2a friend of mine has the n900 and i found it rocking11:39
itdockno particular reason :)11:39
mecejacquesdptd-mob2, best device evah, IMO.11:39
marmoutemece: sys.stderr.close() ?11:39
jacquesdptd-mob2i'm really more planning on maemo/meego than andriod11:40
itdockmy n900 is definitely faster after this update11:40
lardmanitdock: ah, wondered if there had been some hint, etc11:40
jacquesdptd-mob2the user interfaces is a lot better11:40
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jacquesdptd-mob2and it seems more pro11:40
mecemarmoute, yes, but where?11:40
tybolltitdock: what update?11:40
itdocklardman: last major update was preceeded by a minor one exactly a week prior11:40
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jacquesdptd-mob2mecei could take one if i wanted11:40
lardmanhave we just had a minor update then?11:40
tybolltitdock: let me tell you - you're late to the table :)11:40
mecelardman, PR1.1.1 apparently11:40
itdocki definitely am :P11:40
lardmanah good11:40
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lardmanI'll see if I can get it downloaded then11:41
marmoutemece: why to you want to close it anywhere ?11:41
jacquesdptd-mob2cause i finished my cell phone supplier engement and i can resiliate and profit of new customers offers11:41
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itdockmemory use seems better as well, though i wish i could easily see what from extras-devel was occupying root11:41
jacquesdptd-mob2i should check the price the n900 would cost me11:41
mecemarmoute, well I don't know where the error comes, I need all the output, but I'm not sure where to close the file.11:41
jacquesdptd-mob2but now i know there no chances meego will run on it i should maybe wit a bit more11:42
marmoutemece: don't close it then11:42
marmoutepyton ill do it at the end.11:42
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Dipsyhi all11:42
mecemarmoute, oh. Well that solves a lot of problems :)11:42
* lardman curses the slowness of "checking for updates"11:43
jacquesdptd-mob2starting from hardware / price what's the best phone actually ?11:43
jacquesdptd-mob2for all of you11:43
ShadowJKmece: it'll be closed on exit anyway, but I'm fairly sure there's a way to set it unbuffered or line buffered too11:43
itdockhmm firefox is actually fast on 1.1.111:43
Dipsywho know how to get start php coding on my n900?11:43
meceShadowJK, line buffered! Yes that's what I want11:43
lardmanor just flush it after each write11:43
ShadowJKit's probably just because you just rebooted11:43
meceDipsy, install the web server and get crackin11:44
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itdocknah i reboot all the time, this is definitely different11:44
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itdockok time to catch some sleep before work  in 4.5 hrs11:45
mecehmm does sys.stderr use the write() function? I could just make a function that opens, writes, closes or something.11:45
ShadowJKmece: I'm pretty sure you can change buffering of fds in python11:46
ShadowJKI remember doing it on pys6011:46
marmouteyou do11:46
lardmanso going back to the update, I don't see it currently, is that normal?11:46
ShadowJKlardman: last time it ws staggered across timezones?11:46
meceShadowJK, I'm finding out. Thanks for the help.11:46
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lardmanShadowJK: ah ok11:47
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* lardman heads off to try to work out Qt Table Delegates11:48
lardmancu later chaps11:48
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meceapparently open('asdf/asdf/error.log', 'a', 0) would make it unbuffered.11:55
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mecerenaming maemo 6 to meego:
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Stskeepswhat on earth is Aptana11:58
meceStskeeps, some moblin stuff perhaps?11:58
adeusfor webapps11:58
meceso it appears.11:59
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ShapeshifterStskeeps: nah my gps lock was fine. meh I'll find out another time, I'm at work now ;)12:02
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mecePR1.1.1 now available OTA in Finland .12:05
fcrozatin whole west europe in fact12:06
Corsacany changelog?12:06
mecefound the bug!12:07
Shapeshifteris there a way to prohibit the n900 to connect to a specific non-secured wlan?12:07
X-FadeShapeshifter: Not add it to your list?12:07
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ShapeshifterX-Fade: so removing it should work12:07
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X-FadeShapeshifter: yes12:08
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ShapeshifterX-Fade: okay thanks12:11
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meceinteresting. Turns out hildon-desktop loads the widgets before MyDocs is mounted, resulting in problems when a widget uses stuff from MyDocs. Since MyDocs is unmounted when masstorage connected I should implement workarounds either way...12:12
Lantiziais there actually an update released (after 2.2009.51-1 ?) as claimed by the forums?12:13
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meceLantizia, yep.12:13
Lantiziamece: that turns it part meego?12:13
meceLantizia, No12:13
Lantizialol ok12:13
StskeepsLantizia: only your device12:13
meceLet's see if this works. I have not even looked at df -h today..12:14
mecetons of devel apps12:14
mecehmm downloading. Seems to be working.12:15
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konttori_workStskeeps, Pr1.1.1 is going out today. I verified hat12:24
konttori_workit will be rolled out at different times in different time zones.12:25
X-Fadekonttori_work: it already is.12:25
konttori_workEurope will roll out in 30 minutes12:25
konttori_workrest of the world should already be out now.12:25
satmdit already is being rolled out12:25
Stskeepskonttori_work: thanks, was a bit surprised :) we're happy cos it comes with sdk-fiasco-gen12:25
satmdand I could need some help12:25
satmdhow can I list all packages belonging to extras-devel with dpkg?12:26
* satmd is getting the 'not enough space' again12:26
konttori_workhow much space do you have satmd ?12:26
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konttori_workopen xterm, type df12:26
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timeless_mbp"Maemo" is in some of the symbian repositories :)12:27
satmd/ is only 33mb left12:27
asj_is there a 1.1.1 changelog?12:27
ShadowJKchangelog would be cool12:27
crashanddiewas the udpate released?12:28
konttori_workKey changes and improvements:12:28
konttori_work-       OpenGL ES 1.1 API libraries added12:28
konttori_work-       Support for OVI Store paid content distribution12:28
konttori_work-       Support for almost new 40 new countries12:28
konttori_work-       WLAN bugs mostly fixed12:28
konttori_work-       Set of browser related error´s fixes12:28
crashanddiekonttori_work: please don't flood the channel12:28
timeless_mbpasj_: i thought andre__ published one12:28
asj_thanks :)12:28
konttori_workcrashanddie, that wasn't too biig a flood12:28
Corsackonttori_work: an url would be better :)12:28
asj_oooh, I wonder if it "supports" australia by now12:28
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: please don't write "uDPate"12:28
timeless_mbpit reminds me of symbian code12:28
crashanddietimeless_mbp: eh?12:28
asj_timeless_mbp: no, that would be CUpdateL12:28
crashanddietimeless_mbp: ah, my bad12:28
andre__well, I have a ChangeLog here, yeah. and I expect Nokia to put it online12:29
andre__ exists, so I did expect personally. But it does not exist ("yet", hopefully)12:29
crashanddietiemlsee: i tond caer waht ouy kthin!12:29
ShadowJKuh oh, PR1.1.1 will roll out 20 minutes before I have to leave for work, do I dare upgrade :)12:30
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: it's a really minor update12:30
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meceIf you have a twitter account you can follow it here: for example...12:30
timeless_mbpit isn't critical, it can wait for 8 hours12:30
arachnisthow does one change the browser to portrait mode? ctrl+shift+o doesn't seem to work here12:30
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ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, but I'll miss the new shiny for 8 hours :(12:30
timeless_mbparachnist: um12:31
ShadowJKthe new shiny I can't use anyway because I'll be busy12:31
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ShadowJKlogic.. not... working12:31
timeless_mbpyou realize you have to close your keyboard and hold your n900 in portrait orientation after using the keystroke12:31
crashanddietimeless_mbp: my mbp crashed when opening a new tab in safari12:31
crashanddietimeless_mbp: it's doing the same right now... again12:31
ShadowJKcrashanddie, blame flash12:31
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: my mbp decided not to wake up last night12:31
arachnisttimeless_mbp: hm12:31
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timeless_mbpthe sata controller wasn't cooperating (The hdd is dying)12:31
meceota update was pretty cool. I clicked download and started playing with the computer. next time I looked at the phone, it looked like app manager had crashed, since it was back at home. Turns out it was already updated and booted :)12:31
crashanddieShadowJK: nothing to do with flash, at least I think... it's just those damn previews12:31
arachnisttimeless_mbp: oh, thanks12:32
timeless_mbparachnist: fwiw, the same behavior exists in Phone and all other apps12:32
bigbrovarwait a minute has any update been released for the N900? I hearing some talk about PR 1.1.1 ?12:32
timeless_mbpwe're not supposed to give you portrait mode when your keyboard is open12:32
timeless_mbpyou're obviously not using it in portrait mode :)12:32
timeless_mbpbigbrovar: yes12:32
mecebigrovar, yep its out. just updated from HAM here.12:32
* asj_ install the update12:32
* timeless_mbp pokes crashanddie in private12:33
bigbrovartimeless_mbp: nice :)12:33
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timeless_mbpbigbrovar: *shrug*, it's a _minor_ update12:33
timeless_mbpplease don't expect the world to shift12:33
asj_no one here is at mwc are they?12:33
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bigbrovartimeless_mbp: still better than nothing, beside it might be yet another John the Baptist of updates :P12:34
timeless_mbpbigbrovar: please excuse me for not getting the reference12:34
timeless_mbpsome historical figure... this i know12:34
timeless_mbpkonttori_work: congrats on shipping it btw12:35
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cityLightspls help , I can't update for a dont have engouth space. here is my df -h12:35
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timeless_mbpcityLights: don't paste your df here12:35
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timeless_mbpcityLights: your problem is rootfs12:35
cityLightshow to free space? where to free space?12:35
timeless_mbpyou'll need to find some misbehaved 3rd party package and remove it for a bit12:36
X-FadecityLights: Did you use apt to install things?12:36
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cityLightsnew update claims 16M yet I got 18 Mb free there12:36
timeless_mbpor, well, if you used apt, then you're the one who misbehaved :)12:36
* timeless_mbp starts getting maemo bugmail12:36
cityLightsyes X-Fade I used apt to install stuff and allready rm /var/cache/apt/archives12:36
timeless_mbpandre__: is this you fixing tms?12:36
andre__who is tms?12:37
konttori_workcityLights, clear the cache completely12:37
X-FadecityLights: apt-get clean helped?12:37
bigbrovarwell john the Baptist was suppose to be the dude who came before the christ to prepare the way for The coming of the christ. the reference was used in explaining the minor update which came just before PR 1.112:37
* RST38h moos at konttori, X-Fade, and others12:37
bigbrovartimeless_mbp: .12:37
asj_hmm, needs more than 32 megs in /12:37
konttori_workRST38h, is mooing good or bad?12:37
timeless_mbpbigbrovar: ah12:37
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RST38hkonttori: Depends on the adjective12:37
X-Fadekonttori_work: It is a friendly moo, didn't you hear? :)12:38
timeless_mbpbigbrovar: certainly not impossible12:38
cityLights apt-get clean dosnt free any space12:38
bigbrovartimeless_mbp: lol12:38
timeless_mbphowever in this case, i think it's more likely that nokia wants to be able to sell stuff @ovi store12:38
konttori_workapt-get autoremove12:38
lardmancityLights: but does it remove any packages?12:38
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: so, that was a crash :)12:38
bigbrovartimeless_mbp: hehe in that case the John the baptist reference doesnt apply :p12:38
lardmanJaffa: you about?12:38
cityLightsapt-get autoremove - doesnt remove any. I allready removed a few apps12:38
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bigbrovartimeless_mbp: I believe you are a maemo developer?12:39
timeless_mbpi'm glad you believe that12:39
lardmantimeless_mbp: quick, duck12:39
timeless_mbplardman: ok!12:39
* timeless_mbp ducks12:39
pillar_asj_: I have 40mb free and stillc omplaining..12:39
timeless_mbppillar: what does "log" say in ham?12:40
cityLights should I rm /var/cache/apt/* ?12:40
bigbrovartimeless_mbp: I wanted to know your take on the move to meego, most maemo developers have been silent so far. You guys would soon be working with the moblin dudes (I use moblin too and hangout in their IRC.. really nice dudes if I most say)12:40
timeless_mbpbigbrovar: so um12:41
timeless_mbpthere are a number of reasons for us to be silent12:41
timeless_mbp1. we just got the news when you did, so we have to think about it12:41
w00ta very big number of reasons12:41
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tybolltapt-get zomg-crash-and-burn-and-run-to-the-hills-rpm-will-soon-pwn-us12:41
koivulacityLights, apt-cache autoclean / clean12:41
lardmanhmm, the wonders of a progress bar, supposed to let you know the app hasn't hung, except when the progress bar sits stationary for minutes at a time12:41
timeless_mbp2. we were probably asked not to comment much12:41
timeless_mbp3. we're probably busy working on maemo612:41
pillar_timeless_mbp: there's some "ignorin versions from" from packages that replaces the default system ones12:41
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koivulacityLights, -cache/-get12:42
* ShadowJK would disable extras-testing and extras-devel before update12:42
timeless_mbppillar_: you can save the log file from ham, upload it to a pastebin12:42
timeless_mbpShadowJK: good advice12:42
asj_the office seems to agree Meego is pronounced Magoo12:42
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timeless_mbpbigbrovar: beyond that... i haven't really formed a public opinion12:42
lardmanasj_: as in Mr Magoo :)12:42
* ShadowJK would say it miigo12:42
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asj_lardman: ayup12:42
timeless_mbp4. we're still waiting for more information about what it means from management12:42
crashanddie_ShadowJK would disable extras-testing and extras-devel <- t,fitfy12:43
cityLightskoivula: I ran 1.  apt-cache autoclean  and  apt-cache clean - nothing workd12:43
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tybolltehr yeah12:43
AranelHi, After selecting a new boot video, If I delete selected video, what happens? Does it revert back to "hands" and boots anyway? I dont want to brick my device for a simple change.12:43
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konttori_workI know it's not much of a consolation, but pr1.2 will require much less rootfs space than
tybolltthis might not be the time to start picking on individual employees at nokia so - by GOD people, do restrain yourselves.12:43
ShadowJKkonttori_work, what does it do to require less? :-)12:43
koivulacityLights, well maybe then you don't have any packages in /var/cache/apt/archives/12:43
cityLightskoivula: I ran 1. apt-get clean nothing happend12:44
asj_konttori_work: assuming we can install 1.1.112:44
ShadowJKkonttori_work, wow12:44
cityLights/var/cache/apt/archives/ if empty12:44
* ShadowJK has 61 megs free on / anyway, without any extra tricks12:44
konttori_workasj_, well, even if you cannot, then you can jump over it.12:44
* lardman has ~10Mb free, time to apt-get remove some things12:44
cityLightsdu -h /var => 60.8M12:44
timeless_mbpAranel: no12:44
asj_ShadowJK: ah it is you have anything installed?12:44
konttori_workonly people who have installed from extras-devel, will have issues in rootfs.12:44
timeless_mbpAranel: the way the boot videos work is this:12:44
bigbrovartimeless_mbp: I guess it was a hasty decision motivated more by business than Technical advantage, The decision was first made, and the technical details would be worked on later12:45
timeless_mbpthere  are a list of files which each specify videos to show12:45
konttori_workwe have tested installing about 60 apps from extras, and not issues with rootfs.12:45
timeless_mbpif a file isn't present, that video isn't shown12:45
cityLightscan I rm /var/lib/apt/lists to gain 21.5M ?12:45
RST38hTo update Maemo5, do I need to stop OpenSSH first?12:45
ShadowJKasj_, openvpn, rsync, openssh, mytube, zoutube, xchat, gpodder, location-test-ui, crash-reporter, less, nano, fuelpad, pwsafe, mplayer12:45
timeless_mbpbut if the file that used to specify hands is missing, then it couldn't be shown12:45
ShadowJKI probably forget something12:45
timeless_mbpand if you aren't seeing hands today, that means that file isn't around12:45
ShadowJK3g/3g/dual mode switching applet, foreca weather applet12:45
asj_heh I have 29 megs in /var/lib/dpkg12:45
Araneltimeless_mbp: so If it cant find specified video, it just skips and boots anyway? thanks =)12:45
timeless_mbpbigbrovar: well12:45
cityLightsRST38h: no the update will put the device in offline mode12:45
* asj_ turns off -testing and -devl for a moment12:46
konttori_workcityLights, I'll make a script that will free up some serious space.12:46
timeless_mbppillar_: not very helpful, eh?12:46
konttori_workhold on a sec...12:46
cityLightsor should I rm /var/lib/dpkg/* ?12:46
lardmankonttori_work: allowing users to choose localisation data would free space12:46
timeless_mbppersonally i just moved all of a coworker's locales to /opt and added symlinks for them12:46
timeless_mbplardman: i should write a package that does that12:46
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konttori_workyeah, we'll also optify the localizations.12:47
lardmanwould be good if the data were in the repo, and Settings had a choose which to install applet12:47
timeless_mbpkonttori_work: coming in 1.2?12:47
konttori_workof course that kind of data compresses well, so it's not that much.12:47
pillar_timeless_mbp: no, will disable devel and extras and see if that helps12:47
konttori_workyeah, coming in pr1.212:47
timeless_mbppillar_: so12:47
timeless_mbpif this fails, disable every repo you don't need12:47
timeless_mbpset up apt to use /opt12:47
timeless_mbpand try asking it to do the upgrade12:48
timeless_mbpapt should give you a better error message12:48
timeless_mbpthe "set up apt to use /opt" step is very important, don't skip it!12:48
fralssorry for being late to the party, any patchnotes around?12:48
timeless_mbp(someone else will walk you through that one)12:48
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timeless_mbpfrals: in the log for today, by konttori_work12:48
pillar_timeless_mbp: that's the step I'm not sure how to do12:48
El_Angelothee is a new update for maemo n900?12:49
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konttori_workHere is a script that frees about 20 megs of space:
konttori_worksave as a optify.sh12:49
El_Angelowhat is it about?12:49
konttori_workstore to device.12:49
konttori_workexecute as root12:49
pillar_timeless_mbp: looks like disabling testing and devel was enough to get it upgrading12:49
cityLightskonttori_work: let me test this answer12:49
timeless_mbppillar_: cool12:49
RST38hI have 41MB / available but the Maemo5 update still does not install. Any specific reason?12:49
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asj_what is /var/lib/dpkg/info used for?12:50
konttori_workI'm trying a reboot to see if device still comes up after executing that ;)12:50
timeless_mbpRST38h: does the log say anything?12:50
RST38hwhat log?12:50
timeless_mbpasj_: it's the package database12:50
pillar_RST38h: disabling testing and devel did it for me, I had 42mb before doing that and having the same trouble12:50
timeless_mbpRST38h: tap the title area of ham12:50
konttori_workRST38h, I think 1.1.1 needs 42 mb of space (or 45... can't remember)12:50
timeless_mbpthere should be a 'log' button12:50
asj_timeless_mbp: oh, there are recent date stamps, sorry I missed them12:50
timeless_mbpasj_: *shrug*, perfectly reasonable question12:51
RST38hthe log is empty12:51
konttori_workyeah, device came up nicely.12:52
konttori_workcityLights, go ahead and use that script12:52
konttori_workalso, anybody else, who needs only about 20 megs of free rootfs should use that.12:52
konttori_workI'll try to add a bit more to the script in a while.12:52
RST38hStill cannot update.12:52
RST38hNo log.12:52
ShadowJKah, still 7 minutes to europe I think?12:53
cityLightsis this the fix that brings back the sip buttons to phone?12:54
cityLightskonttori_work: thanks a lot man12:54
timeless_mbpcityLights: sip buttons??12:54
konttori_workShadowJK, yeah, afaik.12:54
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timeless_mbpkonttori_work: btw, how well will the 1.2 update work for people who are partially optified? :)12:54
ShadowJKcityLights, bug #?12:55
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konttori_workbut I'm not part of the release process, so I don't know how punctual they are about the schedule12:55
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konttori_worktimeless, it'll work just fine. Opt folder might have duplicates, but that's it12:55
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konttori_workwe are going to use this path convention in the optification, so /opt/<rootfs path of the content-to-optify>12:56
konttori_workso, e.g. that script above won't result in duplicate files after upgrading to pr1.212:56
* timeless_mbp nods12:57
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timeless_mbpthat's what i've been using12:57
tybolltall this 1.2 talk is making me nervous :S12:57
timeless_mbpand i've prayed that it would "do the right thing"12:57
konttori_workyeah, well, it will do12:57
plastunhello! how to get 'back button' of StackableWindow to connect own signal?12:57
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tybollttimeless_mbp: I meant to file a bug about the missing --DWFIW flag to most hildon apps ;-)12:57
timeless_mbptybollt: hey, i filed a bug against modest to DWIW12:58
timeless_mbpkonttori_work: speaking of which, i have some things i need to poke you about12:58
asj_update installing...12:58
tybollttimeless_mbp: ;)12:58
pillar_.. updated.12:59
asj_wife will life the update, the wifi keeps going nuts and killing her battery12:59
lardmankonttori_work: should backups work ok with the update?12:59
tybolltpillar: which version12:59
timeless_mbptybollt: well, one problem i have, is i have no idea how long it'll take before i get a response12:59
pillar_tybollt: 1.1.1 I guess12:59
timeless_mbpw/ nokia, i have one patch i sent that got 2 responses in <1week12:59
w00ttybollt: nervous? it makes me excited! :P12:59
timeless_mbpone patch got no response (and doesn't seem to be present in the archive)12:59
timeless_mbpand in that same time, i sent a patch to xerces which was integrated12:59
* timeless_mbp has a file with 150k entries13:00
timeless_mbp(it had >300k entries when it started)13:00
cityLightstimeless_mbp: the bug that shows only cellular number in phone13:00
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aboyerwhat is the prefered way of accessing the camera on maemo? using libgdigicam?13:00
timeless_mbpcityLights: bug#? sorry, your description is still poor13:01
cityLightsso if you click a missed call, you can't choose to use sip13:01
timeless_mbpcityLights: oh13:01
timeless_mbpi don't think that's going to be fixed the way you want13:01
lardmanhmm, nice to see a big "Operation Failed" banner during the update.... :)13:01
timeless_mbpif you click the dude icon on the left13:01
timeless_mbpyou can typically get a better card which has the sip option13:01
crashanddie_lardman: maybe using your code to access the camera?13:01
timeless_mbpcityLights: assuming this is what you mean, it'd only be fixed if konttori is given ownership and resources and decides to fix it13:01
konttori_worklardman, yes, backups should work13:02
lardmancrashanddie_: ?13:02
lardmankonttori_work: cheers13:02
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crashanddie_lardman: remember the early versions of mbarcode?13:02
konttori_workasj_, the pr1.1.1 has wlan power consumption fixes13:02
lardmanoh did it say that, long time ago ;)13:02
timeless_mbpcityLights: roughly, i have stuff like this w/ SIP, and at least in most cases, i'm able to do what i described to do what you want13:02
timeless_mbpbut i rarely miss calls, so it's possible my use case isn't a match13:02
ShadowJKkonttori_work, I don't need to ifconfig wlan0 down after leaving home anymore? :-)13:02
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timeless_mbp(konttori_work could call me if you wanted us to test)13:03
lardmanoo, the startup screen is snazzier anyway13:03
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cityLightsSIP is cheap. so I click the number long and open the "open contact" , then choose to call using sip13:03
timeless_mbpcityLights: oh, i know about cost13:03
timeless_mbpnokia has roughly speaking ordered me to use SIP13:03
timeless_mbpso i'm using it frequently w/ my n90013:04
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* MohammadAG wonders what the dbus signal for toggling bluetooth is13:04
crashanddie_or SIP is free to call France for people with specific credentials...13:04
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG: oh brother13:04
MohammadAGlol why?13:04
timeless_mbpjust use a dbus sniffer and use the bluetooth applet13:04
timeless_mbpsee what happens13:04
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timeless_mbpdbus is a well understood system, the tools for managing it are there13:05
MohammadAGrunning mbus2 atm13:05
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timeless_mbpyou can solve this black box w/o wondering here13:05
crashanddie_hi Gaap13:05
Gaapdo you know if it possible to enable verbose mode on boot on a rooted n800 ? :O13:05
timeless_mbpGaap: what would that mean?13:05
timeless_mbpthere's no text console for output from the kernel while you boot13:06
Gaapn800 with root access13:06
timeless_mbpyou'd have to install your own kernel if you wanted that13:06
Gaaplike in linux, with dmesg output at start13:06
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* lardman wonders why the capital Os in Catorize have some sort of slash on them13:06
Gaapok, i read about compiling it13:06
crashanddie_Gaap: no13:06
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timeless_mbplardman: to be fancy? :)13:06
crashanddie_lardman: font?13:06
timeless_mbpGaap: why do you want to do this?13:07
crashanddie_I nearly chose not to use Catorize because it's spelt wrongly -- with a z13:07
timeless_mbpis there something wrong?13:07
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: nope, he just wants to show off13:07
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_: eh?13:07
lardmanyeah font, but why would an O have any dangly bits I wonder13:07
timeless_mbpit's spelled Catorise in engb, no?13:07
Gaaptimeless_mbp, cause i'm a linux user and i like to see what my system start on n80013:07
timeless_mbpafaik it's only Catorize for enus13:07
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timeless_mbpGaap: total waste of time, but have fun13:07
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: is it? I was just picking up on lardman spelling with a z... Your sarcasm meter is broken13:08
lardmanoh maybe13:08
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: see, told you, show off13:08
Gaapthat's linux :p a totally waste of time13:08
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* timeless_mbp doesn't run a sarcasm detector13:08
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timeless_mbpfinns don't do sarcasm, so it's a waste of resources :)13:08
lardmanI've been reading code, hence the z's13:08
asj_hmpf, install failed half way though13:08
crashanddie_timeless_mbp: I mean, he's italian, he speaks about a "rooted n800", and wants to see boot messages, of course it was show off :P13:08
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_: yeah, you won that bet13:09
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aboyerany reason why libgdigicam is only available on x86 and not arm?13:10
timeless_mbpaboyer: wouldn't it make more sense to ask the packager?13:10
lardmanaboyer: it's on arm too13:10
crashanddie_Gaap: you have a radical n800?13:10
lardmanor do you mean not in the repo?13:10
Gaapcrashanddie_, radical?13:11
aboyerlardman: apt tells me that libgdigicam0 is not available in scratchbox arm13:11
crashanddie_ah man, even a native doesn't get my jokes13:11
crashanddie_radical -> radici -> root13:11
Gaap:O yes13:11
Gaaproot on os200813:11
lardmanaboyer: I don't have my build machine here, but my code compiles against it13:11
mecetimeless_mbp, I'm a finn, and sarcasm is my first language...13:11
cityLightsno , is not fixed13:11
povbot`Bug 8159: Missing direct shortcut to use SIP/Skype again in Recent Calls list13:12
crashanddie_mece: yeah, right13:12
lardmancrashanddie_: that was poor13:12
guerby3.2010.02-8 upgrade running!13:12
satmdmy n900 froze13:12
timeless_mbpcityLights: 1.1.1 is a *MINOR* update13:12
Gaapi saw that it was possible to install angostrom on n800 too13:12
Gaapthat's interesting :-/13:12
crashanddie_lardman: see, no wonder they didn't understand me in amsterdam...13:12
timeless_mbpcityLights: note that any mention of 10.2010.* means "AFTER 1.1.1"13:12
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Anidelhi guys13:12
crashanddie_yoo Anidel13:13
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Anideluninstalling stuff to update Maemo13:13
Anidelhey Seb13:13
mecehi andiel13:13
Anidelhi mece13:13
* timeless_mbp frowns13:13
timeless_mbpcityLights: wait13:13
meceandiel, this update didn't need much it appears.13:13
timeless_mbpit says that if i upgrade my n900 to an internal build, my life might suck less13:13
Anidelmore than I have :)13:13
meceandiel, I only removed openarena13:13
cityLightstoo bad, was hoping for that one13:13
meceandiel, right13:13
nid0blah, still no update even showing here yet :(13:13
Anidelmece: it's anidel not andiel :D13:14
timeless_mbpcityLights: thanks, i'll update and enjoy it for a while :)13:14
crashanddie_Jaffa, lardman: let me share you a nice one from Anidel yesterday... He PM'd me yesterday, sounding very happy... Saying "I'm going to the West coast of Canada, I might come and visit you!"13:14
Anidelnid0, you can flash it :)13:14
* Anidel needs to go somewhere :)13:14
Anidelwell Canada's still closer to Australia than Uk :P13:14
nid0meh, means firing up another machine, rather wait for ota to hurry up13:14
meceanidel, doh. I've always heard it in my mind as andiel.13:14
Anidelmece ahah13:15
cityLightsI also saw sevral secerions where the N900 freeses. must repreduce to report it13:15
* satmd needs to reflash :(13:15
mecesatmd, howcome?13:15
Anidelnice.. I'm uninstalling and free space on / goes down instead of up ... may be I need to reboot13:15
satmdmece: doesn't boot, stays black13:16
aboyerlardman: apt is acting weird, it is now listing gdigicam under the arm target...13:16
timeless_mbpAnidel: typically you do13:16
mecesatmd, well that's not very good now is it..13:16
konttori_workAnidel, use this script:
timeless_mbpubifs is a garbage collecting system13:16
konttori_workrun that as root13:16
satmdhappened during the upgrade to 1.1.113:16
Stskeepsquestion, is your /home/user/.profile empty?13:16
konttori_workit will free enough space for you13:16
Stskeepson your n90013:16
satmdmece: probably easily fixed - and I did a backup before upgrading, too :)13:16
El_Angeloannoying that you can't update from the device itself :(13:16
konttori_worksatmd, try removing battery and reboot again.13:16
X-FadeStskeeps: Not even there.13:17
StskeepsX-Fade: excellent13:17
mecekonttori_work, nice script. Very straight forward. I like it :)13:17
Anidelkonttori_work, thanks, will run it13:17
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Anidelnice.. it appened .txt anyway.. grrr hate this13:18
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El_Angelohaving to keep a winxp machine around just for updating my phone is a bit annoying13:18
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timeless_mbpAnidel: you can use sh -x foo.txt13:18
X-FadeEl_Angelo: Huh?13:18 is just a convention13:18
nid0why not update ota El_Angelo?13:18
nid0using the phone's app manager.13:19
Anideltimeless_mbp, I know. it's just the point..13:19
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El_Angelonid0: it tells me i need to update from the computer ?13:19
Anideltimeless_mbp, why show me the full name (bla.txt) and let me change it if then you'll append .txt anyway?13:19
StskeepsEl_Angelo: use linux flasher?13:19
El_Angelohave no linux here atm13:19
timeless_mbpAnidel: so you'll know what extension it'll get at the end ;-)13:20
Anidelkonttori_work, do I need to create a dir before running it?13:20
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threshwoah, updater says i've got to use some application13:20
El_Angelolinux @ home, windows 7 /2008R2 @ work :(13:20
konttori_workAnidel, no, you don't13:20
konttori_workjust put in anywhere13:20
AnidelI mean 'mkdir /home/opt/usr' ?13:20
El_Angelothresh: indeed13:20
konttori_workAnidel, that script makes that dir as first thing it does13:20
threshbut i run leeenuks13:20
timeless_mbpthresh: so um, make more space on your n90013:20
timeless_mbpby using konttori_work 's script13:20
AnidelI see that. I get errors.. let me investigate  a bit13:20
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mecekonttori_work, could also have cp -r /var/cache/apt/* /opt/var/cache/apt; rm -r /var/cache/apt; ln -s /opt/var/cache/apt /var/cache/apt13:21
threshtimeless_mbp: oh joys of 'nokia language'.13:21
timeless_mbpthresh: are you using my English?13:21
timeless_mbpif not, you should switch :)13:21
threshi really need a translation from 'dumb users language' to a more technical one13:21
* timeless_mbp ponders13:21
timeless_mbp"Run Flasher tool"13:21
El_Angelothe only reason the phone doesn't want to update itself is because it needs more storage space??13:21
RST38h61MB / free, still cannot install13:21
threshRST38h: the ultimate solution: remove qt4 :-)13:22
* timeless_mbp wants to fire RST38h as a customer13:22
konttori_workmece, good point. feel free to post fixed version (and perhaps somebody could blog about that)13:22
Anidelso.. that's weird  I cd in /home/opt13:22
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Anideland I see usr there13:22
Anideldrwxr-xr-x usr13:22
Anidelbut I can't ls or cd in it?13:22
konttori_workRST38h, sounds like something else is blocking the update for you13:22
Anidelshould I run it as user?13:22
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konttori_workperhaps you have a conflicting package13:22
timeless_mbpRST38h: the log should really say *something*13:23
thresh34.5M, no go13:23
El_Angelo51.4 MB13:23
X-FadeRST38h: Otherwise see what apt-get says.13:23
El_Angelono go13:23
Anidelah !!! I see 'usr' but the name is wrong.. it has sme binary stuff in it!!13:23
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El_Angelowhere is the log?13:23
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timeless_mbpoh, awesome13:24
timeless_mbpkonttori_work: ?13:24
timeless_mbpif you have an untagged mp3, you get "(unknown albu"13:24
Anidellet me reboot first...13:24
RST38hkonttori: I killed OpenSSH already. But how do I diagnose which package?13:24
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RST38hthresh: Really? qt4?13:25
* RST38h closing in for a kill13:25
Shapeshifterso, I see there's an update for "maemo5". And it asks me to connect it to the PC?13:25
threshwell, libqt4 eats a lot of space13:25
Shapeshifter>.> what is this. I don't have any software for nokia on my linux machine13:25
El_AngeloShapeshifter: join the party!13:25
meceoops.. should use /home/opt/ like the rest.13:25
satmdkonttori_work: had no luck, but reflashing seems to still work13:25
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ShapeshifterEl_Angelo: excuse me?13:26
mecekonttori_work, ok, here:
Shapeshifterso, what do I need to install?13:26
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timeless_mbpmece: can you add a comment on line 2 explaining what the script is for?13:26
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nid0if you're on nix, use the maemo flasher13:26
threshthe joys of nokia, duh13:26
Shapeshifternid0: okay thanks13:26
timeless_mbpmece: and also lines 2..7 should really eat error messages13:26
threshit finds a way to screw something up :)13:26
ifreqis it pr 1.2 ?13:27
bleeterlol trying to get Schneider to explain why developers should have to wait 6+ months for hardware... think I'm on mission impossible13:27
timeless_mbpotherwise people will see 'cannot create directory' which is stupid13:27
timeless_mbpifreq: 1.1.113:27
Shapeshifternid0: do I need to backup my data or something? or can I just flash13:27
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nid0generate a backup on the phone first13:27
asj_ah screw it, I'll wait till 1.213:27
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RST38hbleeter: you should obviously burn yourself in front of Nokia HQ13:27
Anidelhow should /home/opt be mounted ?13:27
asj_arg I can't, it's half installed13:27
X-Fadebleeter: And what are you expecting in new hardware that warrants that wait?13:27
RST38hbleeter: Will provide great comic relief for all the present, at least13:27
AnidelI think I have something messed up here...13:28
timeless_mbpkonttori_work: see the bottom right item in
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bleeterX-Fade: Taking that long for n900 to become avail under warranty here... if next gen hardware like this might just punch my own face ;)13:28
ensiwhats the trick to getting an app running at startup with upstart? :/13:28
mecetimeless_mbp, I'm clueless about shellscripting, so dunno how to ignore errors13:28
timeless_mbp[ -d foo ] || mkdir foo13:28
timeless_mbpmkdir foo 2> /dev/null13:29
timeless_mbpyour choice13:29
X-Fadebleeter: Every Nokia device has been that way. Symbian phones too.13:29
bleeterX-Fade: not as if been able to get any previous maemo hardware, either...13:29
asj_n900 won't be sold here ever13:29
vmlemon_Next time you're in London, get down to Boundary Row in Southwark, and vent your frustrations at the Nokia office there ;)13:29
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bleeterasj_: look at, next month it says13:29
* timeless_mbp puzzles13:29
timeless_mbpvmlemon_: aren't you in #symbian?13:29
bleeterasj_: as does the staff of there, and crazy johns13:29
timeless_mbpthe crossover i keep seeing is really surreal13:30
asj_bleeter: o rly?13:30
w00ttimeless_mbp: *g*13:30
bleeterasj_: my bad, doesn't say 'next month', says 'upcoming'13:30
w00ttimeless_mbp: it's worse IMO with #maemo vs #meego, I just see 'm' at the start and get confused13:30
bleeterit's in store says next month there's some staff competition where the n900's the prizes13:30
bleeterie, nokia care staff13:30
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mecetimeless, "mkdir foo 2> /dev/null" what's the 2 doing there?13:31
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satmdredirecting stderr instead of stdout13:31
timeless_mbpmece:  unix works w/ file handle numbers13:31
timeless_mbp1 = stdout13:31
timeless_mbp2 = stderr13:31
meceok, thanks13:31
Anidelahhhh there it is!!! :D13:31
satmd0 = stdin13:31
timeless_mbpso it's saying "send stderr to /dev/null"13:31
Anidelthe script has been save with '^M' so it created usr^M13:32
RST38hSorry but what is the actual name of the maemo5 package? What should I apt-get install?13:32
timeless_mbpoh, for >, it defaults to 1>13:32
mece# is comments, right?13:32
timeless_mbpmece: yes13:32
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timeless_mbp(except the first line, which is magical)13:32
mecetimeless_mbp, yep. Here:
timeless_mbpit's technically a comment, but it's a meaningful comment13:33
timeless_mbp> from to opt13:33
timeless_mbpi think you lost a SLASH there :)13:33
timeless_mbpmece: definitely better13:33
timeless_mbpif you want to add a comment before each section explaining which file type it is, that'd be cool13:33
* RST38h laughs satanically as apt-get is remving qt413:33
w00taww, that's not nice13:34
w00twhat did qt4 ever do to you13:34
timeless_mbp# Themes, # Icons, # Splash Screen(s), # ??? , # Apt commandline cache13:34
threshRST38h: it will remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr as well :-)13:34
mecetimeless_mbp, could post this to wiki I suppose.13:34
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threshwho cares, though13:34
timeless_mbpmece: yeah it should move to a wiki13:34
Anidelnow the script runs. .thanks konttori_work13:34
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timeless_mbpmece: ok, i think you're set to move it to a wiki13:34
timeless_mbpand provide instructions :)13:35
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timeless_mbpthen stick the wiki page into the topic13:35
CaesiumRST38h: mp-fremantle-002-pr looks likely13:35
timeless_mbp(if there's space)13:35
* satmd is getting a locked sim symbol13:35
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threshit is not 'ignoring errors'13:35
Shapeshifterso, do I need some fiasco image or what? I'm really confused. This procedure is so non-linux like >.>13:35
threshit's 'hiding errors'13:35
threshignoring is adding ||: after each line13:35
Anidelnow I can updaete13:36
timeless_mbpmece: thresh is correct, sorry :)13:36
bleeterwould seem Schneider's telling me I should import hardware and void warranty... gah13:36
El_AngeloThis Maemo update requires the Nokia software application on your PC for installation. Connect device to PC via USB cable an open Nokia software update application. The application will guide you through the rest of the Maemo update.13:36
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threshand i'd rather add -p instead of all that uglyness :)13:36
Anidelanyway.. the fact that I like Windows Phone 7 Series interface (i.e. Zune one) .. it's bad?13:36
bleeterah well, least with the meego/Intel there should be less of this hattery ;)13:37
lardmanAnidel: no13:37
Anidellardman, thanks..13:37
lardmanI want some plain Windows 6.x email love13:37
Anidellooks like email experience in win 7 phone series is amazing.. we'll see13:38
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El_Angeloi hope windows 7 series *FAILS* *EPICALLY*13:38
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AnidelEl_Angelo, why?13:38
El_Angelocause i want no ms monopoly in mobile space as well13:39
Anidellardman, that's Sense UI.. you find the same widget into Android from HTC13:39
El_Angeloit will bring nothing than misery13:39
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lardmanAnidel: ah right, well either way their UI is nice13:39
AnidelEl_Angelo, actually.. I think this time is Apple monopoly13:39
lardmanhas useful widgets anyway13:39
nid0success != monopoly13:39
* thresh is dist-upgrading using apt-get, stupid appmanager sucks13:39
El_AngeloAnidel: no it's not13:39
Anidellardman, indeed it is13:39
AnidelEl_Angelo, yes it is.13:39
El_Angelothere are still less iphones than nokia's13:39
El_Angelo*WAY* less13:39
vmlemon_New WinMo 7 UI looks like a kid had an accident in a scrapbooking class13:39
El_Angeloand android is doing well13:39
* vmlemon_ hides13:39
El_Angeloand i'm not even judging the technology begin win713:40
timeless_mbplardman: "ooh shiny"13:40
AnidelEl_Angelo, but sill an Apple monopoly. I wish THAT fails miserably13:40
lardmanvmlemon_: yes does a little, will be interesting to see what they do with i13:40
vmlemon_32MB per process13:40
vmlemon_Still in 201013:40
lardmantimeless_mbp: not shiny, just usable, far more so than the client we have13:40
El_AngeloAnidel: and still iphone's sucess is not hurting you13:40
timeless_mbplardman: that too13:40
El_Angelothe same can not be said about ms technology13:40
threshnice, dist-upgrade went fine13:41
* timeless_mbp kicks bugzilla13:41
threshwell, almost13:41
timeless_mbplike i really want a row with all goose eggs13:41
nid0the iphone's success actually tends to be hurting the rest of the mobile community more than ms's success does with desktops13:41
AnidelEl_Angelo, it is.13:41
AnidelEl_Angelo, how come Win 6.x is hurting anybody ?13:41
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El_Angelowin 6 is no succes...13:41
El_Angeloit still is an epic failure13:42
Shapeshifterso... there's no "not for debian based linuxes"13:42
El_Angelono one like winmo613:42
AnidelEl_Angelo, still it runs on a WIDE range of phones out there and will continue13:42
Shapeshifteroh nevermind13:42
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Anidelshit! 30Mb free and still complains13:43
El_AngeloAnidel: and still there is no monopoly in mobile space13:44
El_Angeloi want it to stay that way... that's why i like winmo7 to fail13:44
El_Angelonothing more... nothing less13:44
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AnidelEl_Angelo, I wish the exact opposite :) we need more players13:45
El_Angeloi think that is a fair concern considering microsoft's state of record...13:45
El_Angeloi didn't say ms can't play in mobile space...13:45
El_Angelothey are totally allowed13:45
Anideloh so this is not PR1.2 .. it's PR 1.1.1.?13:45
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El_Angelobut i don't wish them *ANY* luck13:46
Anidelfair enough13:47
asj_lol nothing like apt-get -f install to gget the upgrade through13:47
AnidelWTF!!!! he says I need 12Mb , I have 30Mb .. what is missing???13:48
ifreqAnidel: its just minor patch no 1.213:48
fralsAnidel: i needed around 40, disabled -devel and -testing and it should be fine13:48
Anidelok, but why it says there is no space?13:48
meceAnidel, did you remove the extras repos?13:48
Anidelwhy disabling -devel and -testing helps?13:48
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Anideldo they occupy that much space?13:49
meceanidel, caching and whatnot.13:49
RST38hthresh: thanks a lot =) Removing QT worked like a charm13:49
meceanidel, yes. massive amounts13:49
threshRST38h: lucky you13:49
meceanidel, just disable, you don't need to remove.13:49
threshRST38h: i've dist-upgraded using apt and now one of the packages just does not configure :)13:49
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threshrebooting atm, looks like it flashes nevertheless13:49
meceanidel, disable extras, testing, devel and any 3rd party repos13:50
meceanidel gives you 20M or so :)13:50
Anidelthanks.. it going ahead13:50
genis3llJust upgraded and haven't found any visible changes? whats in this update?13:50
Anidelthey should optify HAM :D13:50
asj_genis3ll: wifi fixes13:50
mecegenis3ll, just minor bugfixes.13:50
genis3llasj_: mece: Should this improve battery consumption?13:51
Anidelasj_, wifi fixes? I can finally go back and forth from home and office without restarting my device? :)13:51
asj_Anidel: maybe? :)13:51
AnidelI don't like it..  it's updating.. HAM said Operation Failed13:51
Anideland it's going ahead?13:51
Anidelthe Title Bar disappeared13:51
nid0lots of people reporting that13:52
threshlol, mobile just doesnt start now :-(13:52
threshlooks like i really need to use flasher13:52
meceanidel, i didn't look at mine, so I don't know what it did. worked fine though.13:52
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nid0still not even got an ota update showing here :(13:52
Anidelmece: you prefer to look away :D13:52
RST38hthresh: I would not dist-upgrade Maemo513:52
meceanidel, no, it was downloading, and I was busy.13:52
threshwow, started up now :-)13:52
Anidelmece: kidding :p13:52
mecethresh, :)13:52
threshit took the device four reboots13:52
RST38hthresh: BAD, BAD idea. Maemo4 was actually ok if approached carefully13:52
threshRST38h: how am i supposed to update it then?13:53
threshit doesn't work.13:53
timeless_mbpandre__: ping13:54
truanyone seen any changes in the new firmware?13:54
truis Qt updated?13:54
timeless_mbpoh, nm13:54
andre__timeless, pong13:54
timeless_mbpsorry, i misread13:54
timeless_mbpyou moved version, not target milestone13:54
mecewhoa! the rollercoaster game looks sweet!13:54
RST38hthresh: I have done apt-get remove libqt4-core13:54
* timeless_mbp missed lunch13:54
* timeless_mbp cries13:54
RST38hthresh: It made a farting sound and autoupdated me with maemo513:54
andre__tru: Qt has never been part of the firmware, hence it cannot be updated...13:55
* andre__ hands over a cookie to timeless13:55
RST38hthresh: My guess is that HAM made that maemo5 update pending, then apt-get started it as soon as qt4 was removed13:55
timeless_mbpandre__: only mostly correct13:55
truandre__: oh, but I saw something about Qt4.6.2 for PR1.2.13:55
timeless_mbpwe have a baseline bit of qt in maemo5 :)13:55
andre__tru: yeah, but this is PR1.1.113:55
Anidelthere was a fond change?13:55
timeless_mbpit's used by mail iirc13:55
truthanks for the clarification.13:55
andre__np :)13:55
RST38hthresh: About still shows 51.1 though, I hope it is ok13:56
Anidelok updated.. not flawlessly, but updated13:56
timeless_mbpRST38h: i'm pretty sure that's wrong13:56
threshRST38h: well, did it show the progressbar under Nokia logo on reboot?13:56
meceRST38h, that doesn't sound like it updated..13:56
AnidelRST38h, it is wrong13:56
RST38hthresh: it did not reboot13:56
timeless_mbpRST38h: you need to ask it to reboot13:56
threshthen you did not flash it yet :-)13:57
Shapeshiftermh. what a dumb update procedure13:57
RST38hOk rebooting13:57
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timeless_mbpShapeshifter: eh?13:57
threshand it says Version: 3.2010.02-8 here13:57
timeless_mbpthe default update procedure works quite nicely13:57
timeless_mbpit's graphical, shiny, and painless13:57
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: wiping everything, having to restore backup. All very unlinuxy13:57
meceShapeshifter, ? The update procedure is: launch ham, click update, choose maemo, click continue. Wait.13:57
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: um13:57
timeless_mbpyou're not supposed to do that13:57
timeless_mbpif you did that, you weren't patient enough13:57
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: then why did it say "you have to connect to pc to update this"13:58
timeless_mbpand really13:58
tybolltok so nokia ma{kes,de} tires and TV's, but lunch? come on timless :P13:58
meceShapeshifter, you need to uninstall some conflicting devel apps first.13:58
timeless_mbptybollt: who's timless?13:58
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timeless_mbpShapeshifter: because something prevented it from working magically13:58
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timeless_mbpperhaps you didn't have enough space?13:58
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: patient enough? I saw an update "maemo5". I wanted to install it. Then it said "you have to connect to PC app to update".13:58
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timeless_mbpperhaps you had a conflicting package13:58
RST38hShowed dots then asked for pin13:58
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: uhm, then why didn't it say so.13:58
RST38hNo flashing detected13:58
meceShapeshifter, for me it was openarena.13:58
Shapeshifterlike "conflicts with package xy" or "not enough space"13:59
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: because nokia doesn't want people calling nokia care and spending millions of dollars getting support13:59
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timeless_mbpfor things nokia care couldn't handle anyway13:59
timeless_mbpbut you, the idiot who did i13:59
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: well then I stand my point. what a dumb update procedure.13:59
timeless_mbpshould have asked for help here13:59
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: why?13:59
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: I did :)13:59
timeless_mbpit saves nokia money13:59
Shapeshifterscroll up13:59
tybollttimeless_mbp: Well aren't you mr nitpicker then? :)13:59
meceShapeshifter, I didn't see it. sorry.13:59
Shapeshifterno worries13:59
ShapeshifterI don't date to demand help ;)13:59
timeless_mbptybollt: i've been told to sign up for things as Tim E Less14:00
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: the alternative for an automatic updater14:00
timeless_mbpwhen it reaches a state it can't handle are to try anyway and give you a brick14:00
timeless_mbpthe brick will um, make you much less happy14:01
timeless_mbpand would be much more unixy14:01
Shapeshifterindeed xD14:01
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* tybollt bricks self14:01
timeless_mbpthe "use a flasher" is roughly equivalent to "printer is on fire"14:01
tybolltmmmmh fire....14:01
Shapeshifterwell, now I flashed it. And now it reinstalls all the apps.14:01
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: besides, if it manages to reinstall all your apps for you14:02
jacquesdptd-mob2on beagle board the graphic chipset is onboard ?14:02
timeless_mbpand you keep your settings14:02
andre__so, ChangeLog. I just created
timeless_mbpthen who cares?14:02
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: sure14:02
timeless_mbpthe apple update model fwiw is to reflash and reinstall apps14:02
Shapeshifterapple is not a reference ;)14:02
meceandre__, thankee-sai!14:02
timeless_mbpapple is unix ;)14:02
mecetimeless_mbp, apple is evil14:03
threshandre__: nice, thanks!14:03
AnidelApple is more Unix than Linux14:03
Shapeshifteroh and now I'm positively surprised, the auto-reinstall thingy lets me pick which apps to reinstall14:03
andre__sure :)14:03
jacquesdptd-mob2iphnoe is different from all apple stuffs14:03
Shapeshifterso I can untick openarena not to download 250mb over 3G14:03
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: heh14:03
fralsandre__: "Fiasco-gen was published in PR1.1.1 SDK" - I guess the SDK was updated? ;)14:03
jacquesdptd-mob2i'm moreand more seeing as a linux os mobile than an apple os14:03
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meceShapeshifter, openarena was what made ham updating not work in the first place :)14:03
tybolltShapeshifter: no, you have to submit the question in writing (hand written) and snailmail it to Nookla.14:03
pupnikis it cool or lame that we are using a system invented in 1969?14:04
threshicd usb networking is finally in maemotorius, niiiiiice14:04
andre__frals, not according to the Nokians I talked with. Interesting. Seems there's different info around :)14:04
fralsbug #797214:04
povbot`Bug Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found14:04
andre__fragment, yeah, I saw it14:04
tybolltkonttori_work: is there a changelog for this release?14:04
andre__oh sorry, frals ^^14:05
andre__tybollt, for my part14:05
mece :D14:05
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andre__that's only my (public) part though14:05
tybolltjajaja no need to mock me, I do that quite enought myself. :)14:05
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meceso.. bug 6615 fixed. Hmmpf. I thought it was general battery use. I never had this problem.14:06
povbot`Bug Battery Dies Under 6 Hours with Very Moderate Use (Static IP?)14:06
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mika__hi, i'm thinking of buying the nokia n900 with maemo, i know that here there is someone who has it... how is it? what are the pro/cons?14:08
andre__mece: I'm sorry that your bug was fixed and had a different root ;-))14:08
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andre__mika__, you can probably spend hours in reading about people's impressions... :) any specific questions?14:08
tybolltdid this update just brick my device or what? :S14:09
Guest97655mika__:  I got one ... and I simply love it ... granted, it's probably the biggest phone in physical shape I'd ever consider ... but maemo5 is great ... the open OS is great ... it works perfect .... but it's more a computer than a phone ... the phone features are not as strong as the rest of the features14:09
mika__andre__: mmm..ok, i'll look at it, thanks :) most important are if there is something to sync it with kde (kdepim) and what will change with meego14:09
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tybollthalp \o/14:10
tybolltiz crashink14:10
andre__meego? shrug. not much.14:10
andre__kdepim... hmm... don't know14:10
mika__dazo: how's the touch screen? i mean, is it precise or do you have to tap more than once?14:11
ShapeshifterMh. This app manager is really slow. I mean, apt is slow already, but this manager keeps "updating" stuff and "reloading" things after every step you make. I guess it's going to get even worse with rpm.14:11
tybollthmm so does anyone else have a non functioning (just screen flashing in black and the occasional colour) device after update + reboot?14:11
Anidelmy N900 load avg is 3.01 and 3.82 the current .. the thumbnailerd 60% CPU.. thanks :(14:11
Anidelyeah I do have plenty of images synched .. but still.. tell me14:12
dazomika__:  well, I've never really used a capacitative touch screen more than I've looked at iPhones a few years ago .... but I don't find any problems with the screen to be honest ... sometimes, I do need to tap an extra time or two, but that's seldom for me14:12
Anideltell me you're killing my batter, tell me you're making my system unusable.. tell me something14:12
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dazo(probably because my big fingers move too much during the tap)14:12
andre__mika__, Re MeeGo:
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Stskeeps <- wow14:13
povbot`Bug 7757: wrong cmt-firmware-rx51 (cell modem) version in published firmware?14:13
threshhow do i check if packages is in SDK?14:14
threshis there any gui14:14
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threshoh nevermind, found m.o/p14:14
threshand as i thought, libicd2-dev is not in SDK14:14
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Stskeepsthe stuff to make plugins?14:15
Stskeepsit should be14:15
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Stskeepssure you don't mean icd2-osso-ic-dev?14:15
threshyes, i'm sure14:15
thresh implies it should be there, though14:16
X-Fadethresh: Should be in nokia binaries repo.14:16
RST38hOk, I seemingly have not updated and do not see the update14:16
X-FadeRST38h: Staggered release, are you in the US?14:17
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RST38hX-Fade: .RU but using proxy that places me either into .IE or .US14:17
RST38hWhat is staggered release?14:17
X-FadeRST38h: Well US will be later.14:17
RST38hbut I have seen it just moments ago14:18
nid0proxies wont do anything, it's your product code that matters14:18
X-FadeRST38h: Release per region to lower the traffic.14:18
lardmanhow does the staggered release work out of interest?14:18
crashanddie_nid0: eh?14:18
* RST38h checks by google what region he is in14:18
crashanddie_RST38h: use GPS14:18
RST38hX-Fade: I am in .IE14:18
crashanddie_I'm in .au :(14:19
RST38hX-Fade: Could you tell me the exact package name so that I can check with apt-get from command line?14:19
* Caesium told you earlier, mp-fremantle-002-pr14:19
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tybolltRST38h: Myself I am in .FIREFOX14:19
Caesiumit's just a meta-package that depends on all the other stuff14:19
RST38hthanks =)14:20
* RST38h got carried away at work14:20
X-FadeRST38h: Depends on who you got your device from. And which region ;)14:20
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RST38hX-Fade: developer device, euro114:20
Caesiumapt-cache show mp-fremantle-002-pr gives me Version: 3.2010.02-8.00214:20
threshX-Fade: still it is not.14:20
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X-FadeRST38h: The mp-fremantle metapackage has different name for certain regions.14:20
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X-FadeRST38h: And even providers :)14:21
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RST38hUnable to locate package14:21
Caesiumanything for dpkg -l | grep mp-fremantle?14:22
sulxdoes anyone have MyFoneKit BT HF with n900?14:22
viszwhat she said14:22
X-FadeRST38h: mp-fremantle-generic-pr ?14:22
RST38hA moment, checking14:22
crashanddie_cock... I have about 3k lines of code, and one query that fails... Now how the hell do I find the query?14:22
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X-Fadecrashanddie_: Selective commenting?14:23
crashanddie_X-Fade: in 3k lines of code?14:23
RST38hCaesium: No such thing14:23
X-Fadecrashanddie_: put one in the middle.14:23
crashanddie_RST38h: I'm pretty sure Caesium exists14:23
X-Fadecrashanddie_: And then split from there ;)14:23
X-Fadecrashanddie_: You will find it soon enough.14:23
CaesiumRST38h: strange then, wonder what metapackage you have instead14:23
crashanddie_X-Fade: dude... It's not a linear file...14:23
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RST38hX-Fade: generic does show up14:24
threshwell, maybe i'm the only one who has it14:24
Veggenmmf. any experiences with last update? feels sluggish, screen doesn't update properly...14:24
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X-FadeRST38h: Then it is not avaible on that mirror yet.14:24
Veggendefinitely something wrong.14:24
RST38hX-Fade: I am installing -generic, is it ok?14:24
X-FadeRST38h: Just wait, it is a very minor update anyway.14:24
threshVeggen: so far it's ok here (~25 minutes)14:24
RST38hX-Fade: Should I stop downloading generic?14:25
Anidelthumbnailerd still at 50% variable of CPU14:25
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lbt_ooh - new PR today :)14:25
threshRST38h: apt-get dist-upgrade!14:25
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lardmanAnidel: kill it14:25
Anidellardman, you think it's stuck?14:25
lardmanAnidel: yeah14:25
Anidellet's try14:25
lardmanI had that on the last release, killed it and it went away14:25
RST38hthresh: Naah, I am too much of a chicken for that =)914:25
threshRST38h: at least it will show you if you have something to ugprade :)14:26
Andy80attention when upgrading to 1.1.114:26
Caesiumdist-upgrade still shows me 4 packages to upgrade even after the 1.1.1 update, weird14:26
Andy80I got an infinite loop reboot :(14:26
Anidellardman, it's the second time it happens.. anyway.. it's not sucking up CPU now14:26
Caesiumgstreamer0.10-tools maemo-launcher pymaemo-optify python-support .. wonder why they weren't done as part of the other update14:26
Andy80I had to remove battery and flash it from scratch14:26
AnidelI thought it was working on my huge picture gallery.. but indeed it was stuck14:27
konttori_workdudes, you really should use application manager to make the updates.14:27
RST38hkonttori: Application Manager shows me nothing now14:27
Andy80and now, after the upgrade, it doesn't see the internal MMC :S14:27
Caesiumkonttori_work: oh I did, I just typed dist-upgrade as a matter of curiousity.. not actually going to do it :)14:27
AnidelAndy80, you flashed and rebooted and it doesn't see it ?14:27
Veggenno infinite reboot loop here, but the n900 is sluggy as hell, I got left-over clutter on screen frequently, etc...14:27
RST38hkonttori: Wondering if I should download and install mp-fremantle-generic-pr14:27
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Andy80Anidel: exactly, now I've rebooted again, let's see...14:28
AnidelVeggen this happened to me sometimes .. reboot, let it reboot quietly and don't use it until it's done loading everything..14:28
Andy80now it can see it...14:28
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Andy80restoring settings from backup....14:29
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AnidelAndy80, cross your fingers:)14:29
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andre__WTF do people in the forum always write "Maemo 5 3.2"? where does this weird "3.2" come from?14:31
Anidel3.2 ????14:32
lbt_the keys to the right of "1" ?14:32
lardmanandre__: they are in a forum....14:32
Veggenseems better after reboot. *puh*14:32
lardmanor perhaps they are stressing the 32bit nature of the OS ;)14:32
Veggen<---using my n900 as my primary phone, nowadays. I'd hate to go back to my old Nokia.14:32
pupnikI would love to be able to watch on N90014:32
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* timeless_mbp grumbles14:33
timeless_mbpwho files bugs about Browser stealing focus?14:33
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* tybollt hands timeless a pink poneh14:34
asj_ap manager or something steals focus14:34
asj_especially when installing apps and you switch away with ctrl-backspace14:35
tybolltI'll file a bug report about the browser + flash b0rking but that's another story14:35
tybolltand silly ad block can't cope14:35
mikhasasj_, the notification banner when an app got installed steals the focus, more specifically14:35
tybolltsilly willy ap14:35
asj_mikhas: oh ya that's it14:35
pupnikis there a "mlocate" equivalent for maemo5?14:35
slonopotamusyellow bar in app manager steals focus from everything.14:35
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pupniknot just xterm slonopotamus ?14:36
tybolltslonopotamus: that has got to be way way intentional :)14:36
g0tchahey guys,14:36
pupnikthat is way wrong tybollt14:36
g0tchaanyoen has a changelog for the new fw?14:36
g0tchan900 maemo5 fw14:36
pupnikthought it was a problem with xterm14:36
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slonopotamuspupnik, that is everything :) dunno, haven't tried with other apps14:37
pupnikit was posted.  search pr1.2 features/changelog g0tcha14:37
tybolltpupnik: is it /wrong/? Iono, not IMHO14:37
tybolltpupnik is less humble than me, though ;)14:38
g0tchapupnik, search for that where?14:38
wazdheya all14:38
slonopotamusanyone else experiences _sometimes_ nonworking language switcher in microb?14:38
threshhow am i supposed to install proper fonts to N900?14:38
pupnikit isnt intntional iirc.  i cant be arsed to search for the bug14:38
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tybolltpupnik: I fancy that behavior *shrug*14:39
* timeless_mbp files bug 907914:39
povbot`Bug Mail steals focus when loading a message after another app is brought to the foreground14:39
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: "language switcher"??14:39
timeless_mbptybollt: yeah the banner from app manager is really lame14:40
timeless_mbpi believe that's a frameworks bug14:40
timeless_mbppoke konttori_work to poke someone :)14:40
timeless_mbp(make sure there's a public bug filed before poking people)14:40
tybollttimeless_mbp: you may call me lamer, but I don't have a problem w/ it.14:40
asj_9079 is a lot less bothersome since it also gets visual focus too, not just input focus14:40
timeless_mbpasj_: true14:41
timeless_mbpbut i don't install apps that often14:41
timeless_mbpfor some stupid reason i do read mail and use notes14:41
timeless_mbpalthough that's probably because i'm translating mail14:41
Jaffalardman: pong14:41
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* timeless_mbp wonders what Crazycat is and why it wants to update14:42
asj_timeless_mbp: the app installer though gives you no indication why you can't do anything till you swap out14:42
timeless_mbpasj_: oh, i know14:42
asj_ok :)14:42
konttori_worktimeless, hat have I missed?14:42
asj_timeless_mbp: so my bug is worse than your bug ;p14:42
timeless_mbpasj_: oh, absolutely :)14:43
timeless_mbpkonttori_work: i'll let asj gripe14:43
* timeless_mbp is busy poking something else14:43
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asj_timeless_mbp: I only wish that was my biggest problem14:44
timeless_mbpasj_: you have konttori_work 's attn for half a minute, don't spoil it14:44
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* timeless_mbp ponders14:45
asj_nah, i pitty the maemo group at the moment, I want to be kind to them14:45
timeless_mbpham can steal focus too14:45
tybolltwasn't that the topic timeless?14:46
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timeless_mbpit just came up saying my catalog list was unhappy14:46
tybollttimeless_mbp: or ham <-> golden bar?14:46
timeless_mbptybollt: well, asj's complaint is when it steals focus w/o popping to top14:46
timeless_mbpbecause it uses an infobanner14:46
timeless_mbpi'm complaining about window popping to top14:46
tybollttimeless_mbp: ack, that's something else :S14:46
timeless_mbpin my case using a dialog14:46
tybolltyes I'm saying I _like_ the popping to top behaviour, ++, keep it ;)14:47
timeless_mbptybollt: to test, you need: 1. a package to update. 2. a repository to break14:47
timeless_mbpbreak the repository, ask to update the package, once it gives you the yellow box14:47
timeless_mbpdismiss it and immediately switch to another task14:47
SpeedEvilMe too (steal focus without being visible app-mangler)14:47
timeless_mbpeventually it should swap back complaining about the repository you break14:47
tybolltyes I distinctly remembre having had that14:48
tybolltit's ok14:48
pupnikSpeedEvil: seen that when using anything but xterm?14:48
timeless_mbpcan i get you to file it? :)14:48
timeless_mbppupnik: i'm using notes mostly14:48
SpeedEvilpupnik: yes. fbreader14:48
tybolltif I'm fucking around in HAM I expect it to override my other tasks and grab attention when needed (that's me, others will think I'm nuts)14:48
tybolltmmmmmh nuts...14:48
timeless_mbpbut i was actually in Image Viewer this time14:48
pupnikthanks! i am corrected14:48
konttori_workasj_, if you have some issue, just lemme know. But include my name in the comment so that I actually see it.14:48
konttori_workotherwise, I miss it. I'm doing quite many other things atm besides watching this channel14:49
asj_konttori_work: if I real a issue I'd file a bug report :)14:49
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* timeless_mbp rotfl14:49
timeless_mbpone of my countries is "Error"14:49
timeless_mbpdo i get points for that?14:49
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konttori_workbug reports will get eventually fixed, but if you need something still for pr1.2, ping me14:49
konttori_workas we are about to close it any day now.14:50
timeless_mbpkonttori_work: oh right14:50
tybollttimeless_mbp: Very dogbert'ish points if so :P14:50
timeless_mbpwe have a bug in skype that *really* needs to be fixed14:50
asj_konttori_work: thanks :)14:50
timeless_mbpkonttori_work: we forgot to file it14:50
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* tybollt happy camper I'm not using skyper14:51
pupnikhrw did you look at seqretary for alarms?14:51
* hrw got to the computer after few days of being offline and lot of things happened14:51
hrwn900 dropped, maemo dropped etc14:52
hrwlot of posts 'I will go android' etc14:52
SpeedEvilhrw: My n900 was dropped.14:52
SpeedEvilhrw: only off the sofa onto carpet though.14:53
pupnikmany silly posts (incl ine)14:53
tybolltMy mom dropped me a lot as a kid14:53
g0tchahmm whats this "meego" thing everyone is talking about?14:53
g0tchais maemo going to change or something?14:53
tybolltpupnik: shrug... initial reactions are like that... people will come around :)14:53
hrwbut I can understand why maemo got dropped in favour of meego.14:53
w00tg0tcha: moblin and maemo, are merging into meego14:53
tybollthrw: what do you like the name 'meego'?14:54
g0tchaw00t, why?14:54
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hrwit is simpler to develop 10 apps instead of develop more of them and full base system14:54
g0tchais meego anything special?14:54
hrwtybollt: que?14:54
g0tchatybollt, the name meego sounds lame tbh14:54
w00tg0tcha: it's what both communities make of it14:54
tybollthrw: the new name for the project... 'meego'14:54
SpeedEvilg0tcha: meego is a collaboration between intel moblin and maemo.14:54
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tybolltand nookla14:55
g0tchaso is our N900 becoming obselete very fast or what?14:55
hrwtybollt: for me they could choose anyname - it is just a branding14:55
g0tchawith this meego thing?14:55
g0tchaSpeedEvil, really???14:55
w00tSpeedEvil: um, say what14:55
hrwJaffa: mwn ;) thx14:55
hrwJaffa: during fosdem some nokia guys rumoured about mms+videocalls in pr1.2 - but now... will 1.2 ever be released?14:56
w00tcrying that all hope is lost a day after the announcement is a bit ..premature, I think, to say the last14:56
Jaffahrw: Yes, PR 1.2 will be released14:56
X-Fadehrw: There was a 1.1.1 release even today. Don't worry ;)14:56
hrwX-Fade: what in 1.1.1?14:57
X-Fadehrw: Athough MMS in 1.2? No way.14:57
w00tfMMS! <314:57
pupnikactually merging mobile distros is useful for us in principle14:57
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X-Fadepupnik: It actually being a distro even more.14:58
SpeedEvilMMS support is clearly beyond the wit of man. Only aliens could do it.14:58
w00tpupnik: it's more than useful when you consider the X and kernel expertise that intel can help offer14:58
hrwpupnik: agreed14:58
threshSpeedEvil: not talking about USSD.14:58
threshwhich even aliens cant master yet14:58
SpeedEvilthere is a ussd-widget I though14:58
hrww00t: X yes, kernel? this is rather left for vendors to care when it comes to phones14:59
threshmade by an overmind.14:59
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zerojayWow, that 3d rollercoaster game was VERY impressive.14:59
rom1dephi there ! I've got a maemo update available for my n900, but hildon-appinstaller says that I need some nokia connectivity apps to do such update... why ?14:59
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: weird14:59
pupnikzerojay: where?14:59
timeless_mbpari's comment about "Linux is honest" at around 2:3514:59
w00thrw: for some, yes, but not for all.. I imagine there will be a fair bit of collaboration over time14:59
timeless_mbprom1dep: typically that either means you don't have enough space, or you have a conflicting package15:00
timeless_mbprom1dep: mece has a script that will help w/ the former15:00
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tybolltari has a very "visionary"esque way of writing... frankly I can't quite stand it :-|15:00
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hrww00t: nokia shown in past that they lack skills to push support for their hardware into mainline15:01
tybolltno offence intended15:01
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rom1deptimeless_mbp: and if i go throught apt-get upgrade, what'll happen ?15:02
hrww00t: 770 or n8x0 were never supported in vanilla kernel during their 'on market' time15:02
* SpeedEvil has had bad experiances with visionary leaders. See OpenMoko.15:02
tybolltSpeedEvil: That project went promptly in the shitter right? They are doing what these days?15:02
timeless_mbprom1dep: if you don't use the script that mece evolved?15:03
timeless_mbpyou'll run out of space15:03
w00thrw: if you keep focusing on the past, you'll never get *anywhere*.15:03
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: thankfully nokia doesn't have visionary leaders :)15:03
tybolltw00t: which is exactly what the moderates want >:)15:03
w00thrw: saying 'it won't happen because it has never happened' is a great way to kill off a good thing before it has a chance15:03
rom1depmece: \o/15:03
timeless_mbpmece: please change 'make it executable' to be a box explaining how to do that :)15:04
rom1deptimeless_mbp: mece: thanks I'll have a look15:04
SpeedEviltybollt: The problem fundamentally was that in mid 2008 there was a functional software stack. It was OK. It made calls, it had a few bugs, it could have been faster. With 6 months polishing it was definately suitable for a 'hacker user' release by xmas 2008.15:04
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tybolltright so?15:04
SpeedEviltybollt: So - several weeks before it got to the 'almost stable' state - the chairman pops up at a conference - saying 'something really!!!!!!!!!!1 coool!!! is coming!@!!!!15:05
SpeedEviltybollt: And they decide to completely revamp the UI15:05
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hrww00t: n900 is my 3rd linux device from nokia. previous ones still use original systems cause getting something free and fresh is nearly impossible. why should I think that n900 will be different?15:05
SpeedEviltybollt: Which of course - takes ages. Then as it's sort-of-working - after about a year - chairman pops up at a conference - says 'something really cool is coming!' - change to Qt.15:06
tybolltSpeedEvil:I recall some about shifting focus to another device even before finalizing the first one?15:06
hrww00t: there is still no access to n900 kernel tree15:06
w00thrw: great, let's all pack up and go home and buy an iphone15:06
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SpeedEviltybollt: That too. The first device was fundamentally OK. It had some minor tweaks needed. It was a functional phone. The second device was supposed to be all singing and dancing with a graphics accel. But the original 200MHz device with a dumb framebuffer with no accell at all - and the 400MHz device with a graphics accel - turn out - after lots and lots of effort coding for the GPU - as a wash.15:07
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SpeedEviltybollt: The graphics accel was _bad_.15:07
hrww00t: i think that next 3-4 months will show15:07
w00thrw: that I do agree with15:08
w00thrw: but panning stuff before it even happens, while easy, is just not a proactive approach15:08
tybolltSpeedEvil: where are they today though? ceased entirely or?15:08
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pupnikiphone is overpriced jewelry.  but many people buy jewelry15:09
* timeless_mbp rotfl15:09
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tybolltwhat now tim e less?15:09
timeless_mbproot@timeless-tablet:/# reboot15:09
hrw"Will you see MeeGo on your N900? I don’t think so. Should you get excited about MeeGo? Yes, but now’s not the time for that." = thats nice quote from post15:10
timeless_mbp-bash: /sbin/reboot: Input/output error15:10
tybollttimeless_mbp: meh :P15:10
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* timeless_mbp kills timeless-tablet15:11
timeless_mbpsatmd: it's a vm15:12
* satmd revives timeless-zombie15:12
timeless_mbpon a laptop whose hdd is dying15:12
satmdand I was making a joke :P15:12
SpeedEviltybollt: Basically sitting on a slowly decreasing pile of old hardware that they're selling. Also went sideways into the wikireader. Which was a rugged wikipedia reader. Which was good - but nothing spectacular.15:12
timeless_mbpheh, 'resolvconf: Error: /etc/resov.conf must be a symlink'15:12
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Shapeshiftersoo, the changelog? I can't find it.15:15
Shapeshifterexcept Qt15:16
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: it was listed repeatedly in this channel while you were alive15:16
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: okay thanks15:16
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tybolltShapeshifter: what about qt - nothing about it in the changelog15:18
mecetimeless_mbp, done.15:18
tybolltor you getting at the harmattan pics?15:18
* timeless_mbp frowns15:19
* timeless_mbp wonders how PIPE works in apt dependencies15:19
hrw"Auto-rotation (portrait/landscape) is now supported via window-flag, no more manual D-Bus usage required" - looks like I will like newer Qt/maemo more15:21
tybolltwhich may indeed pull down on the port/land related bugs15:22
timeless_mbphrw: ooh, there's a dbus api for roation?15:23
tybolltI had a massive one (required reboot :) just during lunch today when showing the device to my colleagues... People got way irked :)15:23
marienztimeless_mbp: the "or" dependencies kind of pipe?15:23
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marienztimeless_mbp: I have recently found out that "it depends", specifically on if you use aptitude or apt-get (or something else?) to install the package15:23
timeless_mbpmarienz: heh15:24
hrwtimeless_mbp: for accelettion orientation15:24
LuciusMareAnybody else noticing the "keypress sent twice" bug on vncviewer?15:24
timeless_mbphrw: i need a way to force portrait and then force landscape15:24
timeless_mbpwill dbus let me do that?15:24
marienztimeless_mbp: the dep is satisfied if any of the packages in the or is installed. apt-get picks the first one if none of them is installed yet. aptitude does something more complicated (afaik roughly: tries them all and picks the least "disruptive" based on some metric, like how many extra packages would be installed)15:24
hrwtimeless_mbp: when you listen on dbus you get portrait/landscape and face up/down messages15:24
hrwtimeless_mbp: use dbus-monitor or mdbus2 on system bus and rotate n900 few times15:25
timeless_mbphrw: i don't want to actually change the device15:25
timeless_mbpi'm software15:25
timeless_mbpi need the screen to change orientation15:25
konttori_workwohoo! nice apps coming soon
timeless_mbpbecause if i don't force it to do that twice, the screen ends up looking awful15:25
hrwtimeless_mbp: andto force orientation I do not know - I use same code as was in Qt 4.6 examples/maemo5/rotation/15:25
timeless_mbpi'm generally /bin/sh not something fancy, i don't really have a 'window' :)15:26
timeless_mbpmarienz: so...15:26
timeless_mbpwhat i have is a package A which used to depend on package B15:26
timeless_mbppackage B is somewhat obsoleted by a package C in a newer version15:26
Jaffakonttori_work: Congrats on PR1.1.1. Is there any info yet on how Ovi's doing paid content?15:27
timeless_mbpthe user only installs Package A.15:27
timeless_mbpPackage C is part of the system and upgrades randomly15:27
konttori_workJaffa, plain old .deb files15:27
timeless_mbpi want to release a newer package A which will result in package B being uninstalled if there's a new enough package C15:27
timeless_mbpbut if there isn't a new enough package C, then i want to install package B (a dependency)15:27
timeless_mbpi wrote depends C (>= ...) | B15:28
marienztimeless_mbp: I don't know how to do that yet. I think you'd normally express the uninstall part of that by having C replace B.15:28
timeless_mbpmarienz: yeah, but C doesn't know about B15:28
Jaffakonttori_work: And is it using per-user virtual repos or something else?15:28
timeless_mbpC is a buggy or non buggy system package15:28
marienztimeless_mbp: I don't know if you can express the uninstall part then.15:28
timeless_mbpB is a patch to repair the buggy system package15:28
timeless_mbphrm, teh system notification area hasn't resurrected itself yet15:29
timeless_mbpisn't it supposed to be life guarded?15:29
pupnikogl es 1.1 !?  whoa!15:29
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timeless_mbppupnik: the description's lame15:30
timeless_mbpit's more like "there are various bad version labels for an opengles package15:30
timeless_mbpthis sort of fixes them, maybe"15:30
* RST38h still wants a preservable reflow switch in the MicroB. Who should I bribe?15:31
timeless_mbpRST38h: babu15:31
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tybolltheh I used to have a female friend nicknamed babu, so that sounds awkward ;)15:32
timeless_mbpsomeone's username had a '.' in it, and that broke accounting :)15:32
pupniki need a basement full of coders for ports15:32
pupnikanybody want to live rent free: :)15:33
tybollt"will hack for food"15:33
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SpeedEvilpupnik: see
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* crashanddie_ tries not throwing up15:38
hrwIn order to make the application auto-rotate depending on the current device orientation, Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation must be set on a top-level widget.15:38
hrwNote: The device's rotation sensor will be enabled when auto-orientation is switched on, which will drain extra battery power.15:38
hrw~hail Qt 4.6.215:38
* infobot bows down to Qt 4.6.2 and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"15:38
SpeedEvilI'm sure it has a threshold reporter somewhere15:39
crashanddie_~burn Qt 4.6.215:39
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* infobot pours gasoline all over Qt 4.6.2, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze15:39
SpeedEvilwhich means that doesn't have to be true15:39
* SpeedEvil needs to reread the datasheet15:39
pupnikSpeedEvil: saved15:40
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* crashanddie_ just created 2 twitter accounts :./15:40
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mecenok Q/A on twitter right now btw.
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threshhow totally impractical this link is15:43
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SpeedEvilHmm - yes. It can interrupt on low and high accelleration thresholds - programmable - in each axes. So you can setup the accel so it doesn't interrupt unless it's moved 45 degrees out of the current orientation15:44
jacekowskii've created flickr account15:44
jacekowskijust because there is no imageshack support15:45
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mecejacekowski, pixelpipe has imageshack15:46
RST38hpixelpipe wants to register with them15:47
RST38hscrew them.15:47
RST38hon the other hand, picasa support has been just added, so I am a happy camper =)15:47
meceRST38h, you can use ovi or twitter account to login to pixelpipe15:48
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* RST38h has no ovi or twitter accounts either15:49
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meceRST38h, well I guess you're out of luck there then :)15:49
pupnikvery cool SpeedEvil.  now lets trigger a voice recorder with that15:49
* RST38h keeps number of accounts minimal, for gigienic reasons15:49
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meceRST38h, is gigienic really a word?15:50
RST38hmece: google, will ya?15:50
meceRST38h, google says no.15:50
RST38hmece: make a sacrifice.15:50
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crashanddie_RST38h: funny how h and g are close to one anothe reh?15:51
TMMhi all! I have a short question: How customizable is the maemo implementation on the N900? Can I remove the non-free software that I don't want to have on my phone such as the flash player?15:51
crashanddie_RST38h: I figured that one out -- I noticed T and G were pretty close too -- when I was writing an email to my team, finishing in: Thanks, regards!15:52
TMMcan I replace the entire OS with a self-build version should I want to?15:52
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StskeepsTMM: we run android and mer on it15:53
Stskeepsso, yes15:53
crashanddie_hang on15:53
crashanddie_Stskeeps: how usable is android?15:53
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crashanddie_Stskeeps: does phone work? 3G? Wifi? bluetooth?15:54
TMMStskeeps: how is the wireless connectivity accessed? does the thing just have a CDMA modem internally?15:54
Stskeepscrashanddie_: dunno15:54
StskeepsTMM: it's HSDPA, no CDMA15:54
crashanddie_Stskeeps: what about mer?15:54
StskeepsTMM: don't expect to run a fully 'free' system on it and you should be fine.15:54
TMMStskeeps: I meant the extended set of hayes modem commands :P15:54
StskeepsTMM: ISI15:54
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Stskeepscrashanddie_: wifi works, bluetooth should work, but anything mer is kinda in shreds atm :)15:54
TMMStskeeps: do you need to run non-free software to access the 3G functionality?15:54
StskeepsTMM: there's a ofono plugin15:55
hrwStskeeps: android on n900? available finally or only as YT videos?15:55
Stskeepshrw: he postedp atches15:55
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TMMStskeeps: awesome15:55
TMMStskeeps: well, what bits do I need that are non-free then?15:55
hrwStskeeps: still android 1.5/1.6 based only?15:55
jacekowskii don't know but when i see somebody having problems with non-free software it makes me wanna kill somebody15:56
StskeepsTMM: feel free to browse my openness report,
TMMjacekowski: well, that's a very positive outlook. I don't care what you do and don't run. I just don't use non-free software. I don't see how that would make you want to kill me15:56
jacekowskibecause you are a fanatic15:57
jacekowskiand i don't like fanatics15:57
jacekowskithey are dangerous15:57
hrwjacekowski: so you are fanatic too15:57
TMMjacekowski: at what point did I say "You need to stop using non-free software?" I didn't15:57
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TMMjacekowski: and if you don't want freedom from your soft and hardware, that is entirely fine by me. But I demand freedom.15:58
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alteregoErm, what are you two arguing about? #debian is over there ->>15:58
TMMalterego: when someone says they want to kill me over anything, I tend to get a bit offended15:58
jacekowskiall that debian approach is bad for whole floss movement15:59
hrwjacekowski: you are 15th?15:59
alteregoTMM: he's obviously a bit of an idiot, why can't you just ignore him?16:00
alteregoI mean seriously, he's not serious.16:00
alteregoAnd this isn't really isn't the place for fundamentalist FOSS philosophy.16:01
SpeedEvilpupnik: that doesn't buy you anything other than not having 100Hz interrupts. - a little battery saving16:01
TMMStskeeps: I'm not entirely sure how to read those numbers. Say I basically want a Webbrowser and 3G. Can I have that without non-free bits?16:01
doubleukayallllright. pr 1.1.1 update just popped up "Operation failed" and continued anyway. hmm..16:01
jacekowskiTMM: no16:01
StskeepsTMM: go see the components16:01
jacekowskiTMM: 3G is not going to happen without non-free16:01
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konttori_workJaffa, no, it's just plain deb file. Session locked download of the deb, then installation through HAM as usual.16:02
alteregoTMM: unless you tether via bluetooth to a closed seperate handset ;)16:02
konttori_workso, server protected download.16:02
Jaffakonttori_work: Ah, interesting.16:02
TMMalterego: I'm not asking these questions to discuss my philosophy, I just need to know these things before I can decide on a purchase :)16:02
Jaffakonttori_work: Does that mean no auto-updates then?16:02
jacekowskialterego: nah, bluetooth radio needs a propertiary firmware afair16:03
Andy80retoric question: a f***** changelog is available for PR 1.1.1 :D ???16:03
jacekowskiTMM: there is no completly free phone16:03
jacekowskiTMM: even openmoko have binary drivers for radios16:03
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SpeedEviljacekowski: nope.16:03
SpeedEviljacekowski: there is a seperate core for the GSM radio16:04
StskeepsAndy80: yes, on wiki16:04
alteregoYeah, cellular modems are very closed. You wont find a handset with an open one. Just look for a spec on any GSM readio.16:04
SpeedEviljacekowski: with its own firmware (not running linux)16:04
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: propertiary firmware16:04
TMMStskeeps: I'm not entirely sure on this : Telephony/GPRS <-- is that just the software component to interface with a hayes compatible component on the phone, or does it actually implement the driver for it.16:04
Andy80Stskeeps: can you link, please?16:04
SpeedEvilCompletely open-source user-editable-source cellular radios would actually be illegal to sell.16:04
alteregoTMM hayes is an illusion bought on by a driver that talks proprietary and exports that interface.16:05
TMMalterego: there are phones where the 3G stack is abstracted behind a software layer running on a separate processor, and you can talk to it using free software.16:05
SpeedEvilTMM: the phone module in the n900 is not an 'AT' modem - it has a driver which can make it act like this.16:05
alteregoTMMwhat's the difference with that and talking to the nokia csd hayes interface?16:05
TMMalterego: I realize that, but I'm ok with it running separately somewhere :P16:05
SpeedEviljacekowski: you will not find any phone at all not running nonproprietory firmware.16:06
jacekowskiTMM: but what's a difference16:06
SpeedEviljacekowski: and very, very, very few computers.16:06
TMMalterego: at least the proprietary bits won't be a practical problem when mucking around with the software on the phone itself.16:06
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: i'm just wondering how big would be a market for completly free phone16:06
alteregoTMM: well, they're not with the N900,16:06
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SpeedEviljacekowski: almost zero.16:07
TMMalterego: so I don't need to run some special proprietary daemon on the phone that pins me to a specific libc or other shit like that?16:07
doubleukayhooray, I've bricked my phone after the update. phone restarts after the boot video.16:07
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Stskeepsluke-jr: i think i've found you a friend16:07
SpeedEviljacekowski: plus, it'd be illegal to sell in many countries. (if the user can edit the firmware of the modems)16:07
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: USRP + battery + making it little bit smaller16:07
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alteregoTMM, well, how about a chroot? :P16:08
jacekowskiand sell it as fully open source phone16:08
TMMalterego: I can for now live with having to upload a proprietary blob to some processor if I can then forget about it... some pragmatisy is required, sadly16:08
SpeedEviljacekowski: And that would be illegal to sell in the UK. With actual jailtime.16:08
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tybolltdoubleukay: tried NSU?16:08
jacekowskithat still leaves propertiary hardware16:08
Bluewindcan /usr/share/fonts be moved to /opt or is that needed while booting?16:08
doubleukaytybollt: not yet. reading how I can recover this.16:08
tybolltdoubleukay: I'd say go for NSU mate16:08
TMMalterego: well... do I need to, or not? :)16:08
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: you can transmit legally up to couple nanowatts legally16:08
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SpeedEviljacekowski: Not functional for GSM.16:09
alteregoTMM, I think in this case, yes, I'll just check though ...16:09
doubleukaytybollt: thanks.. guess I can kick myself for not backing up first :)16:09
tybolltdoubleukay: if NSU works you'll still have all of /home and such left16:09
jacekowskiTMM: you know that hardware that n900 is using os propertiary16:09
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tybolltdoubleukay: hence - no need for backup16:09
doubleukaytybollt: oh I would? great!16:10
jacekowskiTMM: and there is million patents on it16:10
SpeedEviljacekowski: also - the FM transmitters are - in most jurisdictions - specially legalised. An intentional unlicensed transmitter on GSM can't emit that much.16:10
tybolltdoubleukay: ya16:10
tybolltdoubleukay: just don't come after me w/ pitchfork and shovel when it doesn't work for you :P16:10
jacekowskiwell, GSM can be implemented as FM radio16:10
jacekowski900MHz fm radio16:10
doubleukayI will try not to ;)16:10
SpeedEviljacekowski: no, it can't.16:11
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SpeedEviljacekowski: GSM is not FM16:11
jacekowskiit's PSK16:11
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SpeedEviljacekowski: and to be more clear - broadcast band FM transmitters are specially legalised. Other frequencies are not.16:11
jacekowskiand if you can alter frequencies quickly you could transmit PSK with FM16:11
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jacekowskiso you would change frequency to 0.00001Hz for 1/4T of original frequency16:12
Shrik3+ the internal FM radio is (afaik by law) required to be reeeally low powered16:12
jacekowskiwhich would result in phase shift16:12
SpeedEviljacekowski: yes, however anyone that would claim you are in fact trasmitting FM as a result is an idiot.16:12
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SpeedEviljacekowski: I know - and have actually implemented such as scheme.16:12
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SpeedEviljacekowski: simulation only - but...16:12
alteregoTMM: you could try bugging Nokia for a static build of libisi and pnatd :)16:13
SpeedEvilIIRC there have ben comments from nokia that they don't mind people running the binaries on the n900 under different OSs16:14
jacekowskiGSM is FSK16:14
jacekowskiso it could be transmitted with FM16:14
jacekowskiit's CDMA that's PSK16:15
jacekowskior maybe wifi is psk16:15
SpeedEvilfundamentally, there is no reason you could not put it in a chroot.16:15
SpeedEvilYou can transmit any waveform with FM.16:15
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SpeedEvilThis does not make the transmitted waveform FM.16:16
alteregoSpeedEvil: my point exactly, a seperate chroot with all the proprietary blobs in :P16:16
kristof78Anyone from Belgium?16:16
alteregoOr, port Linux to the DSP. (bahahaha)16:16
SpeedEvilMuch like you can draw any picture with an etch-a-sketch - this does not make the resulting picture of an etch-a-sketch16:16
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: GSM is FM16:17
koivulait's GDSM16:18
koivulaoops. not #nethack16:18
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ShadowJK"corpses of maemo and moblin line route"16:21
SpeedEviljacekowski: yes - and this is irrlevant  - as I pointed out a while back - only FM broadcast band low-power-transmitters are legal in many places. - as intentional emitters. Any transmission in the GSM band is not in FM broadcast band, unless you're going really, really fast.16:21
ShadowJKthereg knows how to write headlines :)16:21
* SpeedEvil hits koivula with a wide-angle disintegration beam.16:21
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TriztFromWorkhas someone the url to the fixes in the latest update?16:22
JustusI hope I'm right here *g* I have a minor problem with fbreader on the n900 I can't find a way to scroll with my fingers, anyone here who could help me? I feel pretty stupid right now and I don't find any solution on the web16:23
SpeedEvilJustus: go into settings16:23
SpeedEvilJustus: you're looking for one on the righthandside of the settings tab list.16:23
JustusSpeedEvil: Preferences -> Scrolling?16:24
SpeedEvilit's called something like 'touch pressure'16:24
SpeedEvilset both entries to about 516:24
TriztFromWorkShapeshifter; thanks16:24
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TMMalterego: so, those are the proprietary bits then? libisi and pnatd are required for the 3g modem to function?