IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-02-15

GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, who can't?00:00
Chikuthere are only nokia developpers for maemo release?00:00
jaycusekk thanks00:00
lcukChiku, i dont think linus is a nokian00:00
GeneralAntillesChiku, Nokia has lots of contractors.00:01
Chikumaemo based on debian?00:01
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: I thought you had 1.200:01
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Mindflyer91Chiku, yes :)00:02
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, no. ;)00:02
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, I'm assuming that if Nokia decides to do another round of community testing Quim will announce it again.00:03
jaycuseSpeedEvil: So basically I want to take mic input and send it to my output .. kind of like gst-launch pulsesrc ! pulsesink .. I'm just wondering if that's possible. When I try it on my laptop it doesn't really work. I can send the input to an ogg file but when I direct it to  pulsesink it just does a noice real fast and stops.00:03
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Chikucan you multi boot with debian? grub boot and select maemo or debian?00:04
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, as far as I'm aware nobody without an NDA has access as yet. so.00:04
GeneralAntillesChiku, it doesn't use grub, but yes.00:04
GeneralAntillesI'd bet if the Skype video rumors pan out there will be fixes to the front came firmware.00:05
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I'd bet if the Skype video rumors pan out there will be fixes to the front cam firmware.00:05
Chikudo you know if there is feature to put priority for wifi connexions?00:05
ChikuI have multi wifi connexions, and each time auto select got worse one00:06
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fhgfti have a question about the N900 maybe someone can help me with00:06
Mindflyer91yes fhgft00:07
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fhgfti was wondering if it can use a sim card to make calls and access the internet00:07
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Mindflyer91yes, it can ;)00:07
ptlwhy wouldn't it? it's a mobile phone00:08
Mindflyer91btw videocalls are not supported00:08
Ro9u3oRi was unaware of that i thought it was classified as a netbook00:08
Ro9u3oRthanks for your help00:08
Ro9u3oRwhat distros of linux can run on it00:09
ptlI am reading on google that 3G video calls aren't common in the US00:11
ptlso maybe that's why I heard so much scorn about it00:12
Mindflyer91Ro9u3oR, for sure "mer", wich is based on ubuntu jaunty00:12
Ro9u3oRthank you flyer00:13
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Ro9u3oRway to anticipate me searching for more info on the distro plt   thanks00:15
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Mindflyer91Ro9u3oR, i think this section of the forum could be usefull:
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ptljust got google video working!!!!00:43
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ptlthat was quite nice... and the secondary camera is not that bad00:46
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ptlnow the next thing would be: how to *initiate* video calls on google talk from the N900?00:49
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pupnik__ptl: nice.  how dows that work00:53
ifreqwhere i can see example of bugtracker url to put on debian/control?00:54
ifreqand is it necessary on extras-testing?00:54
GeneralAntillesifreq, is if you want your package in Extras. ;)00:54
woglinde1ifreq hm00:54
ifreqGeneralAntilles: yeah well i doubht NO one wants my package eventually :)00:55
ifreqbut ill just finished it with hildon stuff anyways :P00:55
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ifreqanyone using conky here?01:04
ifreqwas just wondering how much it takes system resources when ran by default conf file (on the deb package)01:04
ptlpupnik__: it's as simple as setting up a google account, becoming available and, from the other side, initiating a video call01:06
ptlpupnik__: it goes with sound and such... works nicely01:06
ptlpupnik__: but I don't know how to initiate video calls from the N90001:06
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fnordian900ifreq, a bit more than top and less then htop01:07
ptla bit more than top including the terminal refreshes or not?01:07
fnordian900ifreq, i wouldn't run it all day except out of curiousity01:08
ptlI wouldn't even install it01:08
ifreqfnordian900: yeh thought something liek that :)01:08
fnordian900ifreq, try it and see01:09
ifreqyeah when got some time01:09
fnordian900ptl, suit yerself01:09
ifreqtoo many blades on fire atm01:09
ifreqerr too many projects01:09
ptlanyway what about gkrellm for the n900? :P01:09
ifreqptl: rather hot-babe for n90001:10
ifreqi tryed to package it even.. but it fails on the UI01:10
ifreqsomeone more skilled could check it01:10
ifreqworked nicely on FREMANTLE_X86 desktop thought01:10
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:10
ptlifreq: lol01:10
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ptlit's in medibuntu01:11
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ifreqyeh im sure it works on x86 atleast :P dunno why it didnt play along on armel01:11
ifreqcompiled ok and shito but when launching it cuts 1/4 of xterm and shows nothing :P01:11
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ptlmaybe size counts. And the hot babe doesn't like small devices, if you know what I mean.01:12
ifreqneed someone to check it who understand maemo UI better01:12
ptllame joke anyway01:12
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ifreqptl: yeah, tho it worked on SDK X86 ui :P01:12
ifreqso dunno01:12
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ifreqptl: it fitted nicely on the left side of the screen01:12
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ifreqmayb ill re look it after ive finished current package01:13
ifreqnow good night.01:13
Shapeshifteris there a hotkey for "back" in microb?01:13
lcukifreq, needs to be made into a hildon desktop widget01:13
ifreqlcuk: yeh as you know im not expert on such stuff :P (dev/coding either)01:14
ifreqlcuk: would made a fun app. any takers? :-) *g*01:14
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: oh. ^^01:14
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Shapeshifterso, microb doesn't do html5 <audio> mh.01:18
Shapeshifteror does it?01:18
lcukifreq, of course it would, i saw it on n810 too01:18
lcukit builds and runs01:18
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lcukbut because of the WM for maemo, loading it as an app is wrong01:18
ShapeshifterDr_Cain: mmhh01:19
lcukwould be better as a widget01:19
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lcukifreq, if there is already a battery meter type widget01:20
lcukit would be good to put the same ideas together01:20
lcukjust replace battery pictures with the hot babe one\01:21
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ifreqlcuk: hmm okay.tho babe just shows cpu usage01:22
ifreqbut would be fun on batter too..hmm01:23
lcuksorry, same principle01:23
lcuki did of course mean cpu01:23
* lcuk has a more advanced battery widget atm tho ;)01:23
ifreqwhay are you using if i may ask?01:24
lcukwhat do yo umean01:25
* lcuk puts his pace bar back where its meant to be01:25
ifreqyou said you have more adv batt widget atm01:25
lcukyeah ive got a battery meter that dynamically renders, its not in hildon tho01:25
ifreqah okay01:25
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lcukits the first thing i focus on01:26
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ifreqyeh guess ive seen it01:28
lcukwould liqhotbabe be the wrong name for an app01:28
ifreqhahah nope :)01:29
lcukim actually just thinking what kind of patching it would take to original hotbabe01:29
lcukto have it in liqbase :)01:30
ifreqhrr :) cool01:30
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, you posted a dupe.01:41
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: and deleted it already01:41
GeneralAntillesAh, OK.01:41
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: that's why the ~ping was for01:42
crashanddieoh ffs01:42
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cehtehis there any irc client for mameo which can blink the notification light AND release the blinking .. AND be able to join channels01:56
cehteh.. guess thats a bit much or?01:56
ptlmaybe you can script some python or perl to do this to the xchat for n90001:57
jacekowskii'm using irssi on screen01:58
jacekowskiwith jabber_notify01:58
matthew-im using just irssi on screen.01:58
jacekowskiand it notifies my n900 by jabber01:58
ptlthe blink lights?01:58
ptloh, got it01:58
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cehtehthere is a hack for start it blinking .. but nothing to turn the blinking off02:00
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cehteh(for xchat)02:00
cehtehjacekowski: that sounds ugly02:01
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jacekowskicehteh: why?02:01
ptlis this hack  via script or patch, cehteh?02:02
* cehteh thinks about writing a small xchat plugin but i was wondering if there exist such already02:02
cehtehptl: yes02:02
jacekowskicehteh: i have constant irc connection on server somewhere far away02:02
ptleither one or the other :P02:02
ptlI mean, xchat is extensible by scripts02:02
jacekowskicehteh: and it's just sending notification over jabber02:02
cehtehi written xchat plugins befire02:02
ptlthat does not sound like a task for a plugin or patch to the xchat source code02:02
jacekowskicehteh: so there is no parts/joins on channel02:02
ptlit seems that a small script could do this task02:02
jacekowskicehteh: so i'm not going to miss any notifications or something02:03
cehtehjacekowski: well i have no jabber account02:03
jacekowskii have whole server02:03
cehtehirc is enough for everyone :P02:03
jacekowskicehteh: and you can use gmail02:03
cehtehi have no gmail :P02:03
cehtehirc is enough for everyone ..02:03
ptlno jabber, no gmail02:04
ptlyou find google evil?02:04
cehtehok i have my own server .. i could do some stuff02:04
ptlgoogle's small amounts of evilness are not on scale compared to microsoft's!02:04
cehtehnot sure about, but i had no need and google certainly invades privacy more than ms02:05
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jacekowskinot really02:07
jacekowskiit's you that disclose these informations02:07
jacekowskiare you aware that this channel is logged02:07
jacekowskiand publicly awaliable02:07
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Shapeshiftercehteh: ms? well from vista sp2 on, you can be sure that they're 100% in your room, if they just like to. with google on the other hand, they only are able to sniff through data you actually uploaded to their servers02:09
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Shapeshiftercehteh: in any case, Zimbra is quite nice. includes a nice mail server and also jabber. On the downside, it's a huge monster which ships its own version of just about everything.02:10
Shapeshifterif you want to try something on your server02:11
cehtehnot really .. considering google analytics, ad banners, cookies, partner programs, friends which use gmail, translation service, maps .. whatever02:11
cehtehand i am not paranoid, i use google for maps and searching02:11
jacekowskican anybody highlight me02:11
Proteousjacekowski: HI!!!02:11
cehtehi just dont want an account there and i have my own mail server02:11
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SpeedEviljacekowski: no02:11
Shapeshiftercehteh: still, they don't get to read stuff you have on your computer, except if you allow their app to do so ;)02:11
Shapeshifterwhile vista sp2 and 7 contain spyware02:12
Shapeshifterand malware even.02:12
cehtehi dont care about reading my stuff (well i do, but still i dont use windows either) and most things i do are public anyways as in open source which is available02:12
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Shapeshiftersure, whatever suits you ^^02:12
jacekowskiShapeshifter: zimbra is unreliable02:12
Shapeshifterjacekowski: somewhat. but it performed not too bad for us02:13
jacekowskiShapeshifter: causes loads of problems with external mail accounts02:13
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Shapeshifterjacekowski: external?02:13
jacekowskiShapeshifter: and barely works with maemo02:13
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jacekowskiand MfE02:13
jacekowskiShapeshifter: yeah02:13
cehtehanyways .. about xchat .. how (under what rule) would one clear the blinking light? .. *thinking*02:13
jacekowskiShapeshifter: importing e-mails from imap fails quite often02:13
cehtehjust foreground/focus xchat02:13
Shapeshifterjacekowski: importing? You mean, in case zimbra reads from an imap server?02:14
Shapeshifterno clue about that02:14
jacekowskii know that it have problems with it02:14
jacekowskiit works fine02:14
jacekowskiand then for some reason id number gets duplicated02:15
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jacekowskiand you have to manualy edit database to fix it02:15
jacekowskiand MfE on maemo barely works with it02:15
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Shapeshiftermh. but MfE for maemo is broken02:17
cehtehbrillant ... /gui hide     lets one hide xchat .. completely .. no way to get it back on the n900 .. no systray02:17
Shapeshifterbecause ms' implementation is broken (or so?)02:17
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Shapeshiftercehteh: there's a systray app somewhere in extras-devel I think02:18
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* crashanddie facepalm02:18
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cehtehyeah but i dont want to clutter the small screen :)02:18
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cehtehnext try02:18
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cehteh   /GUI MSGBOX test02:19
cehtehalso nice .. that works02:19
crashanddiecehteh: go do your testing/useless echoing somewhere else, will you?02:19
cehtehi just report here :P02:20
lcukcehteh, shame it doesnt allow you to PM your commands02:20
* lcuk tries it02:20
lcukcehteh, what other inline commands are there02:21
cehtehheh rtfm .. i shut up now02:21
lcukcrashanddie,  BAH02:21
crashanddielcuk: eh?02:22
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crashanddiewtf, now we have people trolling about tmo being owned by Nokia???02:22
lcukdunno seb02:23
lcukbut you stopped cehteh from talking by bein a grump02:23
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crashanddielcuk: because I don't care for people going "Oh this works", "Oh this doesn't", "Oh this works"02:25
ShadowJKit's not nokia, it's an evil cabal that is very good at what they do02:25
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crashanddielcuk: if I wanted that, I'd be on twitter02:25
cehtehok going to try this tomorrow .. n802:27
lcuknite cehteh02:27
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Proteousattack of the pupnik clones02:34
satmdrather unsuccessful :D02:35
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles & zerojay: and now I'm going to be called a tyrant for locking the thread03:13
GeneralAntillesYou are a tyrant.03:13
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crashanddie~burn GeneralAntilles03:17
* infobot pours gasoline all over GeneralAntilles, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze03:17
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I really want to meet Darius in person.03:17
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: you've got stones, I'd say03:17
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I'd be too afraid to beat the crap out of a guy like that03:17
GeneralAntillesHe must have so many things to teach.03:17
crashanddieWhen I see people like that, my bully side comes out... Call it my natural empathy03:18
GeneralAntillesTyrant and a bully. . . .03:18
crashanddieoh ya03:18
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SpeedEvilAlso a skilled large diameter wood-chipper operative?03:19
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I'm 17 kinds of rare03:21
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acidjazzany1 here own audio technica headphones04:14
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user_hi guys.. how do can i install python2.5-qt4-sql ?05:05
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matthew-crashanddie: !05:16
matthew-How could you05:16
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zerojaycrashanddie: I had no idea you were a mod on the forum.05:18
GeneralAntilleszerojay, tremble!05:19
matthew-zerojay: he deleted my boob picture.05:21
matthew-not funny.05:21
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Lumpio-I'm afraid those might not be what you think they are.05:26
Lumpio-Oh. They are actually boobies.05:26
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kamuiWHO's the GIMP05:47
kamuiwho ported Wesnoth :)05:47
kamuiI want to paypal them 5$05:47
kamuijust for being such an excellent person05:47
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crashanddiematthew-: live with it06:02
crashanddiezerojay: been for quite some time now06:02
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LuciusMarehi, so i found the alarm-not-snoozing bug08:01
LuciusMareWhen i set it to offline mode, and something wants to use the internet, like ntpd or mail (i am not sure, it might be just one naughty app) the dialog appears - "Do you want to turn the offline mode off?" and stays there, catching the input. Now, when the alarm starts, all presses or clicks are sent to that dialog. So i've got to snooze it by turning it over, answering the off mode dialog and waiting to stop the alarm.08:04
GeneralAntillesBug's been filed.08:09
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LuciusMarewell, thanks08:18
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Ken-Youngtigert, Good evening."08:34
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RST38h"'Cool' X Terminal commands for a noob?"08:39
RST38h(obligatory rm-rf already mentioned by qwerty12)08:39
RST38hThe original poster's join date is Feb2010, too. Are they *really* getting more stupid with every month?08:40
sheepbathow the heck do you have a "cool" xterm command08:44
MiXu-The same way you have a cool fanny pack08:45
mashiaraIt seems I cannot use the search to find this supposedly humorous thread08:47
mashiaralink please ?08:47
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Ken-Youngtigert, Good evening."09:12
Ken-YoungOops - sorry, bad uparrow.09:13
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asj_good morning09:17
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crashanddieRST38h: lmao all the reports that come in for the rm -rf / post09:21
sejosomeone using syncevolution? It does not show etries that should be synced from server (calendar) and it creates multiple entries on the server (each time I sync it creates an entry)09:25
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mashiaraanyone know how to see what goes wrong when launching a (python) program via the menu (.desktop file), executing the file from commandline works just fine.09:57
ham5run the desktop file on cmd line?09:59
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mashiarano I mean running the executable the .desktop file tries to launch on terminal, or is there a way to run the .desktop file somehow ?10:01
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mashiaras/run the .desktop/execute the .desktop/10:01
infobotmashiara meant: no I mean running the executable the .desktop file tries to launch on terminal, or is there a way to execute the .desktop file somehow ?10:01
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ensiis it possible to register hotkeys on maemo5?10:05
ensisay, i want a service to grab "shift+backspace" and do something on this keycombo, maybe have to look at doing this at X server level?10:07
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adeusensi, you could try xsendkey10:16
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villagerensi: why not do it the same way you would on a regular linux desktop running X?10:18
ScribbleJWell, I'm in trouble.  My N900 spontaneously rebooted itself, and now will not boot all the way up.10:18
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WZhangSomehow my sources file must be very f****, wont install most, i.e. says that "bluemaemo has no installation candidate" and i should install "bluemaemo" instead lol10:18
ScribbleJIt gets to the five dots, then shuts down again.10:18
ScribbleJI can't get it into the flashing mode by holding down 'u'. :(10:18
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WZhanghmm, if it really dead only Nokia flash equipment will help10:19
ensivillager: well i guess the trouble is that i havent done X programmign directly, always used a windowing kit like gtk or qt10:19
ScribbleJWhat is "Nokia Flash equipment?"10:19
ensiScribbleJ: a linux pc?10:19
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ScribbleJensi, Right, I got one of those.10:20
WZhanga FPS-21 + FLS-5 dongle10:20
ScribbleJBut it's worthless unless I can boot into flashing mode.10:20
WZhang+ Interface cable10:20
WZhangconnect under the battery10:20
ensioh real symbian like flashing tools10:20
WZhangexactly, normal nokia flashing equipment as used in stores10:20
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ScribbleJAnd WTf, if I take out the SDHC card it won't power on /at all/.10:21
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jaem_n900WZHang, where did you get this equipment, out of curiousity?10:21
WZhanghmm, Sounds more like an Hardware error then10:21
WZhangjaem_n900: "Officially" only over Nokia10:21
WZhangthe FPS-21 is no Problem, you can get it anywhere - only the Dongle is hard to get10:21
WZhangWithout the Dongle its basically worthless10:22
jaem_n900ah... ;)10:22
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jaem_n900a friend was interested, hence my question10:22
tybolltWZhang: so that is what those "golden dots" on the PCB showing when you take out the batt is for?10:22
ScribbleJSo I'm phoneless and there's jack all I can do about it?10:22
ScribbleJThis is severely disappointing.10:22
ensiScribbleJ: did you do anything to the phoen?10:23
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ensior it just started doing that by itself?10:23
villagerensi: XGrabKey10:23
WZhangtybollt: yes, exactly10:23
StskeepsScribbleJ: you should be able to flash still, make sure your battery is charged10:23
WZhangwait, let me see if i find a adapter and can make a pic, sec10:23
ScribbleJI was copying a file via ssh onto the SDHC card, when the phone just rebooted.  I wasn't doing anything strange and it was definitely not going on (and therefore filling up) the root parition.10:23
Stskeepsit's not very often at all you need flash equipment.10:23
ScribbleJStskeeps, how?10:24
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StskeepsScribbleJ: first off, use a 32-bit pc, windows xp or linux, and flash through there10:24
Stskeepsand see if you can charge your battery in another device10:24
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ScribbleJStskeeps, well, I luckily have a 32-bit notebook... but how am I going to flash?  The battery is fully charged, FWIW.10:24
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infoboti heard flashing is
ensivillager: all rite, thanksn10:25
StskeepsScribbleJ: take out battery, plug in usb on both sides, start flasher, put in battery10:25
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ScribbleJStskeeps, I'll try that, but that link that just posted will nto work.  I've used 'u' to get into flashing mode before.  It does not work now.10:25
WZhangFPS-21 adapter for Nokia 628010:26
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StskeepsScribbleJ: i have never used 'u' personally.10:27
WZhangAnyone got a N800?10:27
WZhangor N810, with Diablo10:27
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ScribbleJThat technique seems to have worked, Stskeeps.10:29
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StskeepsScribbleJ: good :)10:30
ScribbleJI didn't even have to flash the whole thing, just reflashed the kernel.10:30
ScribbleJThat doesn't make much sense, though... wonder why it died.10:30
WZhanglook in logfiles10:31
jaem_n900WZHang, yes, but not charged10:31
ensiScribbleJ: you did try hard booting it yes?10:31
jaem_n900what do you need?10:31
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ScribbleJensi, what does a hard boot look like, different from a normal boot?10:31
ensiScribbleJ: you yank out the battery10:31
WZhangWZhang: any way to give me your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list ? mine is pretty much cr*p, and does not work well anymore10:32
ScribbleJI did that, yes.  It didn't help any.10:32
WZhangwhy i highlight myself, i meant jaem_n900 :P10:32
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ScribbleJFlashing with Stskeeps's battery method worked though.10:32
tybolltScribbleJ: which is?10:33
WZhangi prefer a complete flash over the Box, since it can repair i.e. Bootloader10:33
jaem_n900WZHang, hehe... give me a sec, and I'll see if it has enough power to boot for a sec10:33
ScribbleJtybollt, remove battery, plug in usb cable, start flasher, replace battery.10:33
WZhangthanks ;D10:33
tybollt"plug in usb on both sides"?10:33
Stskeepstybollt: host and device10:33
ScribbleJtybollt, to the phone and the pc. :)10:33
WZhangon your PC and on Phone10:33
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tybolltd'oh :)10:33
WZhangDONT try to fit in USb in headphone jack lol10:34
jaem_n900I don't often have it charged since I got my N900 loaner, because I don't want to kill the battery for when I may have to give the N900 back10:34
ScribbleJI don't understand.10:34
WZhangyeah, the batterys die pretty fast - thats why i have many backup batterys ;)10:34
tybollt"My god dern flashermathing won't kerwork - I haven't connect 'er to da PC just yet, what's wrong, why're not working?"10:34
ScribbleJtybollt, you laugh but I've done things that stupid.10:35
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ScribbleJlike the time I had my guy return a notebook to the store because it stopped working.... I hadn't plugged it in.10:35
jaem_n900WZhang, sorry, it's dead right now.  I could pull the card and pastebin it from my desktop, but I'm heading to bed10:35
WZhanghas time10:35
jaem_n900you should be able to find a standard list online, though10:35
WZhangnot really, already googled long10:36
jaem_n900good luck10:36
jaem_n900okay, well, sorry10:36
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tybolltScribbleJ: fair enough =)10:36
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JaffaMorning, all10:47
X-FadeJaffa: ping?10:47
X-FadeJaffa: Please make sure the <pubDate> in your feeds is stable.10:47
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X-FadeJaffa: When you published a new issue of mwkn, all pubdates were updated.10:48
JaffaX-Fade: Really? Hmm10:48
X-FadeJaffa: Check the rss ;)10:49
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X-FadeJaffa: And the planet for that matter.10:49
JaffaX-Fade: Ah yes, I see.10:49
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JaffaX-Fade: Fixed10:50
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X-FadeJaffa: Cool, not a big deal now. But annoying when you reach 50 issues :)10:50
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JaffaX-Fade: I've fixed the script so that it shouldn't happen again10:53
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WZhangnext time i check if i need devel repo for anything11:01
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WZhangbefore i try to figure 7 days out why it does not work11:02
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StskeepsJaffa: mwkn tip: (wishes of older device users)11:05
RST38hmoo, ab11:06
tybolltmoab on espoo?11:08
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JaffaStskeeps: Ta.11:14
fluxI read somewhere that charging (nor maintaining the charge from the battery that is being used by the device?) doesn't occur when the green light is on, is this correct?11:14
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JaffaX-Fade: Can you force Planet to refetch the MWKN feed to tidy up the pubDates?11:16
fluxIOW, if I put my device into charger at the evening and leave it there until the morning, has it been without wired electricity for many hours already in the morning?11:16
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X-FadeJaffa: Done.11:19
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th0br0Umm, where to open Bugs against the maemo webpage?11:21
JaffaX-Fade: Ta11:21
th0br0On the regular BT?11:21
th0br0Yeah, nvm the question.11:22
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andre__th0br0, Bugzilla > Website11:25
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th0br0Yeah, the 404 appears to have miraculously fixed itself though once I reopened the page...11:26
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pupnik__2coumem applet could easily be oart of the stock maemo5 distro11:27
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WZhangfin my n800nally typing over bluemaemo right now o11:27
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WZhangneeds german keyboard layout, but everything else works good11:27
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pupnik__2germany should adopt us kbd layout and map umlauts to fn+u,a,o,s11:29
WZhangCant type like that, i cant even remember where the @ key is on US KB11:29
pupnik__2for ss11:30
inzpupnik, but it has no umlaut in it11:30
WZhangit is actually itself one11:30
pupnik__2yeah see.  if we used us kbd layout we would have economic advantage working overseas11:30
MiXu-Hmm... The lack of profiles in N900 is really annoying :(11:30
WZhangwell, we should let everyone use the most used KB on world11:31
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sobczykhi, does the maemo 5 haj japanese/korean input methods?11:31
pupnik__2i would learn chinese but i dont want to sound like them11:31
inzumlaut turns "back vowels" into "front vowels", s is not a vowel11:32
pupnik__2i know inz.11:32
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WZhangsobczyk: i assume it has, at least onscreen11:32
WZhangas i use HK-CN on my N80011:32
sobczykWZhang, because o the screen I assume something like scim on linux11:33
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sobczyki mean HW eyboard11:33
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inzAlso, my german teacher tols that ß is being deprecated and one should use ss instead11:33
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WZhangDoes it even have enough keys for JP/KR?11:33
Shrik3they use chording afaik11:33
inzSo mybe that could be boosted using keyboard layout without ß11:33
WZhanglol inz, he told you serious crap then :D11:33
sobczykful qwerty should be enough for input11:33
sobczykthough I wasn't able to find any info on IM's on the n900/maemo511:35
asj_you can change the keyboard layour fairly easily11:37
asj_google it for directions11:38
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inzWZhang, yah, it's the only source saying such things this far11:38
inzWZhang, maybe it was her opinion =)11:38
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sobczykone more thing, is it possible to limit data transfer to wifi only?11:39
WZhangI think so11:39
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WZhangsince i live in Austria and speak perfect german, and learned it for a long time :P11:40
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pupniki would really like a ustream client12:09
pupniktheir flash is too heavy in browser12:09
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ShadowJKlol ok, nilfs2 might not be so good12:12
ShadowJKmy flash stick has developed a bad block in 2 days :)12:13
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pupnik   [ Buzz off: Disabling Google Buzz | Webware - CNET ]12:22
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X-Fade <- MWC press conference starting.12:31
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nid0 oops12:33
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meceWhat's this MeeGo crap twitter is spamming me with?12:41
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meceyep yep.12:43
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D-IivilHi there. Is someone here who can see what's wrong with package getting imported to repos?12:44
ifreqdoes repository keep stats how many hits/downloads some package has got?12:44
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mecehmm fully open source they say..12:44
ifreqD-Iivil: usually builder tells it :P12:44
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Ken-Youngifreq, Extras keeps track of downloads.   Extras-testing and -devel do not12:45
D-Iivilifeq, build is successfully, but the package still doesn't get imported to repos. This has happened to me few times and sometimes it works if I re-upload the source with different version number.12:45
ifreqKen-Young: oki12:46
ifreqD-Iivil: it takes some time to get refreshed atleast.12:46
D-Iivilifreq, and if your asking me to wait a bit longer; package I uploaded to extras-devel two weeks ago hasn't still got imported even the build was ok :-P12:46
ifreqi usually grow the package number when done some changes12:47
D-IivilYes, me too. But you can't upload the package with same version number 'coz the system tells it's already there.12:47
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X-FadeD-Iivil: Which package?12:47
D-IivilSo I'm asking if there's someone who has access to the server and could see if the package went to trash by mistake or something.12:47
D-IivilThis: &
villemvmoblin goes qt12:48
D-IivilAnd it still won't show up here:
mavhcso intel will concentrate on talbet, nokia on phone, share os?12:48
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nid0intel calling everyone at to go join meego.com12:49
wazdheya all12:49
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th0br0so in the future there will only be meego, but no maemo?12:50
mavhcseems so, stupid name12:51
mavhcmeego, so simple even a 3 year old can understand it12:51
nid0the announcement would suggest that harmattan just died12:52
mavhcmee go internet now!12:52
villemvit's a scheme to bring back amiga12:52
meceamiga ftw!12:52
wazdcanhazchizburger OS :D12:52
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mavhcthe amiga port is obviously called ameego12:52
meceqgil want's discussion here:
th0br0nvm. yeah12:53
nid0first meego release in q2 apparently12:53
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meceis harmattan meego?12:53
villemvit's meego 6 ;-)12:53
asj_I thought maemo was lame....I shouldn't have complained ;)12:54
bigbrovarso you guys heard .. that was totally unexpected12:54
D-IivilX-Fade: Can you help me with the issue?12:54
wazd - MeeGo masscots :D12:54
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mavhcmakes sense, no way maemo could compete against android otherwise12:54
* Jaffa giggles that the MeeGo announcement says "Moblin and maemo [sic] are merging!"12:55
X-FadeD-Iivil: yes.12:55
D-IivilGreat :)12:55
wazdX-Fade: you should register like now :)12:56
meceso.. Is harmattan == meego?12:56
nid0he'd be a couple of years late trying to do so12:56
bigbrovarI wonder how this would play out, moblin is based on gtk and uses clutter for tranistion multitouch and effect, while maemo is moving to Qt.. also maemo is based on debian while moblin is based on fedora, moblin is optimised for atom while maemo is compiled for arm .. hmm12:56
alteregoThat's really good news.12:56
th0br0meego is purely qt apparently12:57
th0br0 has N900 on front page12:57
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meceyeah they said meego is qt.12:57
alteregoI reckon meego will be maemo operating stack and meego (moblin) user space tools;.12:57
alteregoThis will push the development community a great deal.12:58
th0br0 < duh, that is funny... now where's the difference to that application and a basic qt hello world app12:58
asj_th0br0: that's a hell of a lot ore complicated12:58
alteregoth0br0: maybe that's the point :P12:58
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meceth0br0, well the point would be that there is no difference.12:58
bigbrovarI think this moves frees maemo from Nokias grip and makes it like symbian and android12:59
bigbrovarso anyone can ship devices based on meego12:59
asj_they'll screw it up and meego will be uiq and maemo s60 ;)12:59
inzwazd, was registered in Nov-200813:00
mecethe nokia dude said "fully open source".. so will it be FULLY open source?13:00
nid0"fully open source" probably = mostly open source13:00
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asj_mece: meego doesn't need a cell radio....13:00
X-Fademece: Device specific layer will probably not be a part of it.13:00
alteregoI bet there's just one agreement between Nokia and Intel, ``You can use it, and we'll work with you, just don't build any phones okay?'' :)13:00
tybolltnid0: "mostly opensource" == "sign NDA here!"?13:01
Stskeepstybollt: HW parts will always be problematic13:02
meceJaaksi's blog: "MeeGo is free. Code will be available for everybody under proper open source licenses. No strings attached"13:02
asj_so how do you pronounce meego?13:02
tybolltStskeeps: mind I'm just ranting abuot the use of "opensource", not really weighing in in any discussion ;)13:02
meceI'm guessing it's "me go"13:02
nid0pronounced as meego13:02
Ken-YoungHas any commercial product actually been shipped with Moblin?13:02
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* Jaffa wonders if there'll still be two communities in practice, or one13:04
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StskeepsJaffa: time for soul searching, too13:05
pupnikhrw|gone: seqretary might be an interesting schedule app for you13:06
wazdjoin the maemo-nazi channel! :D13:06
JaffaStskeeps: Indeed. Implications for Community Council as well13:06
StskeepsJaffa: at least meego has a 'governance' part13:06
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pupniki dont like all these competitors13:08
pupnikkill them with fire13:09
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tybolltso guys13:09
tybolltit's been a great ride w/ maemo13:09
tybollttoo bad it couldn't last13:09
Anidelso.. meego ...13:09
Anidelwell it'll merge.. I wonder what'll happen with, the forum etcetera13:10
wazdwell, I think it's more good than bad13:10
tybolltwhere do I go get my N900 refund?13:10
Anidelme too13:10
pupniktybollt: go away13:10
StskeepsAnidel: time ;p13:10
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wazdnow I can actually test my themes without buying $1k device :D13:10
Anideltybollt, actually Maemo 6 wasn't headed to the N900 anyway.. so where's the issue?13:10
tybolltpupnik: hehe :) I'm joking.13:10
AnidelStskeeps, will be the same? :)13:10
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w00tStskeeps: at least we can still call it tmo!13:11
ShadowJKw00t: lol13:11
lcukits a .com :p13:11
zerojayJaffa: Good, I'm not the only one feeling weird about all this.13:11
w00tlcuk: dammit, shatter all my dreams13:11
threshgood night sweet prince maemo13:11
Passelihow do i enable core dumps in N900 ?13:12
Anidelw00t, tmc :P13:12
w00tzerojay: I think that to say you're the only one feeling weird would be an understatement, it's pretty huge in so many ways..13:12
villemvwhat the hell am I going to do with the tattoo then?!?13:12
lcukjaffa, they said at the start there are 2 channels, the intel channel and the nokia channel13:12
villemvhave to mod it to "Mom" I guess13:12
Anidelvillemv, Vintage tatoos are good :)13:12
Lantizia1is there as yet a way to enable host mode on the USB port?13:13
Jaffalcuk: Yeah, but what does that mean? If they want apps to be compatible across devices they'll want a single app developer community13:13
Jaffalcuk: Which also implies changes to Extras, autobuilder, QA, ...13:13
tybolltAnidel: so maemo 6 is slated to be the first megoo based OS then?13:14
zerojayI feel sick.13:14
Anideltybollt, according to Ari's blog post..13:14
ifreqstop crying.13:14
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ShadowJKAnyone else think this means next device/OS will be H2 2011? :-)13:14
AnidelShadowJK, nope.. next device will be a Maemo 6 device (or Meego 1.0)13:15
w00tI think it's a bit early for pessimism13:15
ShadowJKAnidel, that was a time, not a name13:15
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AnidelI think the first MeeGo device will see the light in 2011, but the Maemo 6 device will come earlier13:15
Anidelmorning lardman13:16
pupnikmoo lardman13:16
lardmanhi Anidel13:16
tybolltit was pretty much confirmed M6 ! N900 even prior to this - right?13:16
lardmanhi pupnik13:16
ShadowJKThis will probably lead to terrible fragmentation, I mean, not even Nokia itself could write symbian apps that worked on more than a handful of devices....13:16
* pupnik stabs fragmentation with a fork13:16
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lardmanhmm, I take it there has been some news....13:17
AnidelShadikka, fragmentation? two platforms merging into one.. I don't see it as fragmentation, rather the opposite13:17
* lardman heads to frontpage13:17
JaffaJust realised, MeeGo is a *really* shit name.13:17
tybolltlardman: a bit... yeah13:17
Anidellardman, yes.. meego.com13:17
pupnikit is Jaffa13:17
AnidelMaemo and Moblin merging into a single software platform supporting Intel and ARM CPUs13:17
tybolltJaffa: try appending an s and see what site that is :S13:17
Anideland more13:17
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Lumpio-Will it have a gaming platform called WiiGo?13:17
Lumpio-In a joint effort with Nintendo13:17
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agi'I've bought a Meego' sounds like you bought a friend (in spanish)13:18
lardmanso what's happening to Maemo 6, and using Qt for the frontend, etc.?13:18
X-Fadelardman: Nothing, meego will be qt based.13:18
Anidellardman Quim's posted a post right now on its blog
X-Fadelardman: the big news here is that intel gets behind qt too.13:19
nid0nokia 2nd release now starting13:19
lardmanhmm, I drop out for a week so I can do some work and all this happens.... ;)13:19
yergathe architecture diagram has GTK/Clutter too13:19
X-Fadelardman: Just happened.13:19
zerojayIn the end, all of this is probably a very good thing, but ugh.. so many questions.13:20
lardmanX-Fade: ah, so perferfectly timed for my re-arrival13:20
Jaffanid0: Hopefully it's the N920 running Maemo 6 with the Maemo 6 SDK beta available now and pre-release for N900 ;-)13:20
zerojayyerga: I think you said it best in your tweet.13:20
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yergazerojay, yes, my feelings right now13:20
w00tzerojay: time to digest it all and start answering them I think :)13:20
D-IivilX-Fade: I need to run, but can you PM me if you found something and maybe got it fixed?13:20
yergazerojay, but at the end this will be a very good thing13:20
t_s_oi would say this is more a problem for intel then nokia, as this is the second "restart" of moblin13:20
Lantizia1MeeGo isn't replacing Maemo is it?  Maemo will still be seperate and continue?13:21
Lantizia1MeeGo sounds like shit13:21
t_s_omoblin 1.x used deb, then they restarted with rpm for 2.x, and now its going qt and meego13:21
zerojayyerga: Yeah, I know.13:21
nid0Jaffa - second release seems to just be more about Ovi services coming to more customers + devices13:21
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lardmanhmm, Quim's blog post points to a wiki page that needs a login...13:21
Jaffanid0: Yawn13:21
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lardmanah, need to register13:22
t_s_ohmm, as i think about it, intel have always been borrowing from nokia during the moblin development. they have been using hildon since 1.x for example13:22
meceso... moblin was already maemo for x86?13:23
Jaffalardman: Fixed13:23
sobczykwill maemo 6 support n900?13:23
yergabut, well, news without source code aren't very fun13:24
tybolltsobczyk: far as I know - it was already determined that no it will not13:24
meceyerga, yeah Q2 release they said.13:24
Lantizia1Please don't ruin this now... we only just got the open, free, and known-brand backed phone we have all been after - don't turn it into some crappy "ideology" alliance thing where we are forced only to use Qt and RPM13:24
t_s_omece: there was a fair bit of shared code at least13:24
threshrpm ftw13:24
mecetybolt, when was it determined?13:25
zerojayLantizia1: That probably will not happen so don't worry.13:25
tybolltmece: no cold hard facts here, more like hearsay13:25
tybolltmece: IIRC genA or someone ranted about it around here some day13:25
mecewell... they have an N900 on the front page of meego.com13:26
tybolltI for one don't mind QT - I do however fear (big time!) switching to rpm13:26
lardman~lart virc for not showing new channels13:26
* infobot installs PocketPC on virc's PDA for not showing new channels13:26
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bleeterooh, merging with moblin?!13:26
t_s_ohmm, seems gtk+clutter will still be there, only the focus will be on qt13:27
* frals just woke up13:27
fralsso whats this meego stuff?13:27
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sobczykdespite no maemo6 qt4.6 will be available on n900?13:27
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mecetybollt, do we know that we are switching to rpm?13:27
tybolltfrals: click on the links above - but do be seated and put the coffee mug ona desk in front of you before doing so :-(13:27
mecefrals, well it's RIP maemo hello MeeGo13:27
lbtlive (now)
ifreqeveryone who thinks maemo is dead please leave13:28
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t_s_onot sure if i like that they appear to split handheld and netbook ui frameworks, with the option for other ui as well13:28
ifreqim tired to see ppl crying like ubnhc of emos13:28
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bleeterifreq: I think it's a great move :)13:28
tybolltmece: right now I just feel like a teen who has seen an irish catholic minister for the first time to be honest... :(13:28
mecetybollt, heh13:28
bleeterifreq: for BOTH platforms. way too much wheel spinning reinventing the same wheel in the various linux distros :)13:29
alteregoifreq: I think this is jus tthe usual frantic activity following any kind of major announcement.13:29
lbt"Linux Foundation hosted project"13:29
alteregoifreq: it'll calm down in a few hours ;)13:29
ifreqbleeter: im happy with my phone atm.. my OS couldnt care less if some new X OS comes somedya.. if it supports my phone.. FINE. if not.. well.. time will tell :)13:29
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lardmanlbt: hmm, wish they had subtitles13:29
ifreqalterego: yes it is :P13:29
pupnikso intel wants some freedom from microsoft?13:29
bleeterifreq: I'm in Australia, n900 launch here later next month...13:29
meceifreq, I definately agree13:29
zerojayalterego: I'll calm down when we have answers to questions.13:29
lbtlardman: actually from
ifreqalterego: i wouldnt just go for assumptions until something REAL is out.13:29
lbtzerojay: If these two megacorps could drop some of their priorities in order to reach a common ground, other players can do that too. Including you? (yes, you).13:29
alteregoifreq: agreed, Nokia aren't going to pull out of and we're not the ones doing the merging.13:30
lardmanlbt: I just can't listen as my work PC's headset plug is knackered :)13:30
ifreqbleeter: going to get n900? :) great phone13:30
lbtquote from Quim13:30
lbtlardman: I think it'll be on youtube13:30
sobczykqt4.6 on n900 anyone?13:30
mecebleeter, N900, greatest device ever!13:30
lbtI missed the first so I hope so13:30
bleeterifreq: been waiting since in Jan '09... don't want to import, void warranty13:30
t_s_opupnik: could be that intel see a future in smaller devices, and not seeing microsoft being able to deliver a os for that segment13:30
MiXu-What's your take; when will the merger of maemo and moblin be visible on the product level? :)13:30
ifreqbleeter: yeah :) good choise.13:30
bleeterifreq, mece: have already excited local nokia care office. I'm in a small city. They're thrilled, all 3 staff hahaha13:30
MiXu-My guess would be 2012 at earliest...13:31
mecebleeter, cool :D13:31
lbtMiXu-: it is nice that this announce is *pre* device13:31
bleeternext news I'm waiting for is a tablet device.. really need one guys13:31
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inzMiXu, some new item suggested that the first device would come out as soon as "end of 2010"13:31
ifreqrumours tend to grow.13:32
alteregoSo this must have been "the big news" that was referred to a couple of weeks back.13:32
MiXu-inz: That would be harmattan then. I doubt it.13:32
mecewell it is pretty big news13:32
pupnikwho here has experience with moblin?13:32
ifreqsoon some geek posts maemo is dead and then its all over twitter facebook etc13:32
meceMiXu-, Harmattan should be considered MeeGo13:32
pupnikmoblin is dead! :)13:33
MiXu-mece: Wow. That's surprising.13:33
ifreqwin 3.1 iz dead!! finally!13:33
mecepiupnik, did it ever live?13:33
till-so we have to join #meego or what?13:33
meceMiXu-, "Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance." from Jaaksi's blog13:33
ifreqi want to run win nt4.0 on my phone. it ran on my alpha too..13:33
bleeterI guess, at least from a community point of view, getting Moblin and/or MeeGo *mostly* working on n900 would be some goal, learning experiences, practicing synergies etc.13:33
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ifreqtill-: yeah leave this channel and join to #meego for more news.13:33
bleeterifreq: I want to run solitaire.exe on my phone :(13:34
mecebleeter, dosbox13:34
JimiDinihm.. so, do I correctly understand, that Maemo will become "an implementation of meego". and still will have some specific parts? will stay as a portal for Nokia's implementation of meego?13:34
pupnikit looks like it will be good for maemo.  except for the awful name13:34
bleetermece: sssh don't make it so easy ;)13:34
mecebleeter, sorry ;)13:34
Shrik3bah, there goes N8x0 support...13:34
pupnikJimiDini: that looks correct afaict13:34
Shrik3"sorry, no meego for you"13:34
meceoo drm free ovi music. that's nice.13:35
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inzMiXu-, ahh, found it:
villemvhey, community can make n8x0 a meego platform13:35
tybolltShrik3: s/N8x0/N[89]x0/13:35
Shapeshiftergo, meego ^^13:35
Shrik3The Nokia Way =)13:35
mecenow where's timeless? I need some of his synic views :)13:35
inzMiXu-, "...while the first devices should e on sale by the end of the year."13:35
villemvsince it's anyway "wider" platform than, say, fremantly13:36
lbtooh, paypal on meego13:36
lbthence drm on the new phone13:36
bigbrovarhmm so what ever happed to the 4 step plan of maemo becoming a consumer ready device.13:36
lbtso much for having a non-drm kernel...13:36
tybolltlbt: what do you mean paypal? it's a web service - no?13:36
bigbrovarNokia says we would see a meego device 2nd quater this year13:37
lbtlistening and guessing13:37
MiXu-Awesome. :)13:37
* lbt goes to buy nokia shares13:37
nid0they said we'd see the first release of the os 2nd quarter, not the first devices running it13:37
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MiXu-bigbrovar: Where does it say that?13:37
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lardmanhmm, I thought I saw it say device too13:38
bigbrovarMiXu-: from this tweet
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MiXu-It's release, not device.13:38
lardmanbut no, is talking about the sw release:
bigbrovarMiXu-: Peter is heading marketing in Maemo Devices@Nokia. Hope to engage those that like Maemo UX and philosophy.13:39
bigbrovarMiXu-: or what use to be Maemo Devices :p13:39
mecemaemo and meego trending on twitter...13:39
HukkaHaha, just on the keynote "on my ma- meego" :)13:39
meceHukka, he said on maemo, on meego, on symbian IMO. Didn't sound like a mistake13:41
bigbrovarMiXu-: true you are right13:41
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Shapeshifter qgil makes an appearance ;)13:42
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lardmanhmm, again /me grumbles about the lack of subtitles on online video13:43
X-Fadelardman: the finlish is no that bad?13:44
lardmanX-Fade: my 3.5mm socket is broken13:44
Lantizia1Could I just say I don't like Qt all that much, or RPM based distros.... Have I bought a product with a short shelf life here?13:44
lardmanso I have to lipread or all of the office can hear them13:44
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villemvhas the rpm thing been confirmed somewhere?13:45
rangeLantizia1: Maemo 6 would have been Qt anyway - and which packaging system is used shouldn't matter at all.13:45
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ShapeshifterLantizia1: of course, it's a computer gadget. it's been outdated the moment it was announced13:46
mikhasLantizia1, it's not always the better concept that wins ...13:47
bigbrovarlardman: the development of moblin is based on fedora ( or a fork of it) but moblin as been ported to ubuntu which uses debs13:47
mairasvillemv, at least on the #meego channel13:47
* tybollt ... betamax vhs, anyone?13:47
mecevillemv, I don't think so. recent moblin has used rpm apparently, so that's why i fuess.13:47
Shapeshifterrpm based? Will meego use rpm?13:47
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_berto_«dirkhh: MeeGo will be rpm based»13:48
Shapeshiftermh. -.-13:48
* tybollt cringes13:48
mairasvillemv, dirkhh (an Intel employee) did confirm on the #meego channel that Meego WILL be based on rpm13:48
Shapeshifterthey should use pacman. (obviously)13:48
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Hukkamairas: Just right now on #meego they said no13:49
zerojayAlmost feels like we had all the work and all the positives and now we're getting saddled with THOSE guys as a reward. lol13:49
lbt_berto_: when/where did dirkhh say that ?13:49
zerojayAnd now they're trying to change shit on us.13:49
_berto_lbt: #meego @ freenode13:49
villemvwell, rpm is livable I guess13:49
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Jaffazerojay: But WHAT ABOUT THE MASCOT?!13:50
zerojayJaffa: It's gonna be that kid Jake from Family Guy.13:50
lbt_berto_: before I joined13:50
mairasHukka, you mis-interpreted: he said it's not based on Fedora (well, Moblin was forked from it a long time ago, so it's a matter of taste) but it IS based on rpm13:50
VReyet an another platform change..13:50
Jaffazerojay: lol13:50
zerojayNew Meego mascot:
fralslol zerojay13:51
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mecefrom #meego: (1:50:54 PM) dirkhh: MeeGo is indeed rpm based13:51
threshrpm rules13:52
rangeEverybody who starts whining because of the packaging system which is used: Go out and buy an OS X machine. After that be happy, that there is packaging at all.13:52
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Lumpio-...or Windows13:52
zerojayI don't really care about packaging, but... well... have moblin devices been successful at all? I don't know of anything, but I could be wrong.13:53
rangezerojay: Have there been any?13:53
Lantizia1Is MeeGo just going to be a set of "ideals" and "standards" like the LSB but for embedded shit... that Maemo 6 will adhear to?  Or an actual OS to replace the Maemo project entirely?13:53
zerojayI don't think so.13:53
lbtzerojay: moblin is (AFAIK) a fork from fedora13:53
rangeI've tried it, but not on a touch screeen device.13:53
lbtfrom that stable at least13:53
zerojayWhereas Maemo has had some successes... so why are we bending to shit like "we're going RPM?"13:53
mairaszerojay, it's not really just about Moblin, it's Nokia and Intel putting their combined effort in one basket13:54
Lantizia1screw em13:54
rangeWell, moblin seems to be going Qt, that's a bit more of a bend :)13:54
tybolltqt \o/13:54
HukkaAnd really, Intel has probably put a lot more resources to Moblin than Nokia ever to Maemo13:54
Lantizia1but Maemo is more of a success13:54
Lantizia1keep it seperate!13:54
lbtLantizia1: you can make a fork :)13:55
* Lantizia1 starts a petition13:55
rangeAnd you get a meego tablet right next to your meego phone. Though the name really is shitty.13:55
* tybollt starts a petition against lnatizials petition13:55
* mece starts a petition against petitions13:56
X-FadeI wonder if it still makes sense to run elections if the governance will change anyway.13:57
Lantizia1don't we have Maemo has a seperate community to prevent this kind of shit?13:57
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_berto_"LeeGo would have been better. 'Yours parts of the platform'"13:57
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VReBig Boss: "We are going to combine with moblin and dump our platform, for 6th time was it? Make it happen"13:58
KhertanMeeGoo what s an horrible name !13:58
rangeDoes meego include ofono?13:58
KhertanHi everybody !13:58
tybollt<crosspost> so rather than fusing maemo and moblin... meego will be moblin w/ small parts of maemo sprinkled on top? </crosspost>13:59
Khertanand qt qt qt qt qt qt ... burk13:59
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ensidoes the hildon desktop window that contains the applications grid have a name?14:00
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lbtjust fyi    #meego is alive...14:01
inzlbt, a bit too alive, i say ;)14:01
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inzensi, desktop ;)14:01
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lcukcan someone wake marius up and see if he can get infobot into #meego14:02
inzlcuk, so you can ~lart people?14:02
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kkitoDo You know if there is any atuomake variable that points to the project root?14:03
Necccrowd here14:03
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lbtkkito: Necc: just fyi    #meego is alive...14:04
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ensiinz: hmm i'm trying to figure out how to get a list of running applications (those ones that have a visible window). any ides?14:04
slonopotamusand of course maemo-moblin merge will happen after maemo 6? :)14:04
ensibeen looking at the output of wxinfo but dunno hmm14:04
Necci just read about it, but it not exist yet as end-user product14:04
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inzensi, ah, that view, I got you wrong... no idea, sorry :(14:06
mecemaemo 6 should be considered a meego instance14:06
cehtehOpen MeeGo ... wait for merging openmoko :P14:06
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* cehteh runs14:06
inzensi, I think it should work the same way as any other X windowing though14:06
villemvyou guys know you can talk about meego on #meego?14:06
ensiinz: heh that doesn't help much much cause i dont know much about X windowing :)14:06
inzensi, emphasis on the word "should" though14:06
inzensi, me neither =)14:06
adeusif there's an icccm compliant manager they're listed in the root window14:07
adeusxprop -root14:08
adeuslook at _NET_CLIENT_LIST_STACKING14:08
t_s_ois the forum getting a bit stressed?14:08
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ensiadeus: yeah that gives me a shitload of window ids14:09
adeustheny you have a shitload of windows :)14:09
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ensii only have like 5 apps running, and i'm only interested in the top level windows of these applications14:09
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_berto_ensi: gdk_screen_get_toplevel_windows ()   ?14:10
adeusyou can also query for the _NET_WM_PID atom for their pids14:10
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ensi_berto_: thanks sounds good at least :)14:10
adeusI'm guessing that will be the same list14:11
adeusperhaps limited to the main window per process14:12
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adeusyou can also look at the WM_STATE info14:14
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ensiadeus: with xprop per window id?14:15
adeusfor example14:15
adeusxwininfo -root -tree14:15
adeusfor a generic picture14:15
Ken-Youngdoes anyone know how to use hildon_button_set_value to set the initial value for a *multicolumn*  picker button?14:16
Ken-YoungOr if that is even possible?14:17
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crashanddieJaffa: ping14:20
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* RST38h checks MWC news and laughs satanically14:21
fralstmo seems slow :<14:21
derfToo soon.14:21
guysoft422Whats the relation of LiMo and Moblin??14:22
lardmantoo many acronyms for me to keep up with14:23
RST38hno relation14:23
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* lardman wonders if LiMo is similar to LiPo14:23
glassguysoft422: ignore untill devices released ;)14:23
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guysoft422glass, strange.. our israeli coverage say that "Maemo and LiMo are merging" are they idiots?14:23
tybolltlardman: Plenty of lipo in this here gut...14:23
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glasssome guys have been pulling money from limo&moblin for a decade now?14:24
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glassthey gotta do something14:24
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glassguysoft422: look at companies behind limo,moblin and other such alliances14:24
guysoft422the writer is the representative of Nokia in Israel...14:24
lardmantybollt: don't drink any water or you're liable to explode ;)14:24
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glassguysoft422: doesn't matter who the writer is14:25
RST38hguysoft: Yes, they are idiots.14:25
guysoft422glass, the question is if that is a valid statement. Is it like saying Debian and Ubuntu?14:25
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glassguysoft422: could he answer the question what's the difference between limo and debian? probably nhot14:25
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guysoft422glass, well if so, i sould send them an e-mail to correct it!14:26
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glassguysoft422: you'd be sending mails every week ;)14:26
glassif it's shitty journalism, don't read the site14:26
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glassif you read it, they get viewers and win14:26
guysoft422glass, its the biggest internet news site in Israel, and yes, they are morons, when they covered our OLPC pilot they said i was from "Peres center for peace" Instead of "open source community"14:27
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glassguysoft422: lol14:28
glassguysoft422: do they also sensor pictures of women?-D14:28
lbtfrom mece: "Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance."14:28
glassform cabinet pics14:28
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Jaffacrashanddie: pong14:29
guysoft422glass, believe me i tried looking the other way. but its useful to keep an eye at what the average idiot hears in computers. if people ask me about something stupid written there, at least i know what on earth they want from me, and what they are reading14:29
glassguysoft422: don't feel too bad. finnish it-news magazines suck seriously14:29
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guysoft422glass, sometimes, depends how much there is to sensor :)14:30
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BluesLeemeego sounds awful, really14:32
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andrei1089hi, is there any problem with autobuilder? I've uploaded a package a few hours ago, it was built successfully but was not imported14:37
lardmanI guess it will mean that those cheap Chinese devices will at least be able to have the same base system as the Nokia devices, which can't be a bad thing14:38
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sobczykis it possible to limit data transfer to wifi only (without turning off 3g)?14:48
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sobczykon maemo5/n90014:48
tybolltsobczyk: yes of course14:48
thorbjornIs MeeGo supposed to come in place of Maemo 6 or is that for later?14:49
sobczyktybollt, is it simple operation? I'm going to korea and will be wardriving for voip :) I don't want to pay high bill for roaming14:49
SpeedEvilsobczyk: you simply set to 'always ask'14:50
BluesLeelardman: cooperations like this one seem to be neccessary when i look at the droid companies out there14:50
thorbjornProbably wrong channel.14:50
SpeedEvilsobczyk: and it will never connect over gsm without asking14:50
sobczykwow great, big plus over android14:50
bergiethorbjorn: Jaaksi's blog said "Maemo 6 will be an instance of MeeGo"14:51
tybolltsobczyk: yeah it is in settings14:51
thorbjornbergie: Ah, great.14:51
SpeedEvilIt's a major problem for end-user experience.14:51
timelessuser experience?14:52
SpeedEvilFor that reason I have doubts that it'll ever upgrade OTA on n90014:52
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SpeedEviltimeless: AIUI - the UI will - totally - change. Your phone will - over one day - completely change behaviour.14:52
tybolltSpeedEvil: huh what does ota updating has to do w/ that?=14:52
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Ceron^wtf !!14:52
SpeedEvilCeron^: we noticed.14:53
Ceron^the end of maemo :\?14:53
BluesLeethe end of teh world, hehe:-)14:53
Ceron^im rather disapointed :(14:53
threshyes good night sweet maemo14:53
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fralsi have a feeling the next community council is gonna have their hands full14:54
LynoureCeron^: why disappointed? Or, what causes that feeling? Something changing clearly for worse?14:54
SpeedEviltybollt: I mean - I doubt that you'll see meego/maemo 6 - updated onto the n900 as OTA. Forcibly switching users would be nsane.14:54
Ceron^yeh :(14:55
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Ceron^this clearly sucks14:55
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Shrik3and it's 100% certain that meego won't get released for N8x014:55
LynoureCeron^: so, what is changing clearly for worse?14:55
ShapeshifterSo I'm making my first deb package. I'm following the wiki guide, finished writing the changelog, and now I want to run dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -k<my@email.address> but this gives me: "bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'"14:56
Shrik3so there goes that14:56
ShapeshifterWhat's this supposed to mean. I don't have any bash scripts in my own source.14:56
tybolltSpeedEvil: don't worry mate14:56
Ceron^harder to port apps :(14:56
tybolltSpeedEvil: DO worry about getting any further support for your current device ... at all14:56
timelessshapeshifter: you need to quote less-th" and greater-than14:56
Shapeshiftertimeless: ahh, thanks14:56
SpeedEviltybollt: I'm unsure. I would suspect that tehre is very likely to be a n900 release of meego14:57
timeless-k "..."14:57
Shapeshiftertimeless: yep yep14:57
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tybolltSpeedEvil: based on what?14:57
timelessshapeshifer: if the instructions are in a wiki, please fix14:57
SpeedEviltybollt: I just doubt it would ever make sense for nokia not to maintain some level of support for maemo.14:57
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Shapeshiftertimeless: yep14:57
SpeedEviltybollt: my understanding of the market only. And where everythings at. I could be completly wrong.14:57
tybolltSpeedEvil: last I heard was genA ranting around here about M6 likely not comming to the device.14:57
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Shapeshiftertimeless: well, is it supposed to be -k or -k "<>". I mean, should the < > be part of the -k parameter?14:58
Ceron^developers will stop working on maemo5 now :\14:58
Ceron^and wait for that damn meego14:58
SpeedEviltybollt: I guess announces may happen in the next few days. Or maybe not.14:58
StskeepsCeron^: the bet was always -develop for qt-14:59
ShapeshifterCeron^: they didn't stop developing for maemo5 knowing that maemo6 was coming up fast14:59
Ceron^seriously, il hafto sell this phone fast before it looses all its worth14:59
Ceron^soon development goes down to 014:59
tybolltSpeedEvil: put your money where you mouth is... I'll wager EUR 100 that is not the case... w/in a month there'll be nothing for the device :)14:59
Ceron^and nokia didnt even relase a working ovistore yet14:59
tybolltCeron^: my point exactly15:00
HukkaCeron^: 20EUR15:00
SpeedEviltybollt: 100 euro would ATM put me deeply into the red - so no.15:00
Ceron^im seriously angry now :\15:00
Hukka(I think that's more than ten quid even with Greece doing it's thing :)15:00
tybolltmaemo was never even considered an ovi device is my best guess.15:00
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Ceron^nokia just playd us all really good15:01
Stskeepsthey're actually expanding the playing field15:01
Ceron^how so?15:01
Ceron^they are making the supporters of maemo5 who just bought a new phone, found out that there operative system on the phone is already defunc.15:02
cehtehheh .. i ever saied that maemos most weakness is that it is a single-vendor platform15:02
cehtehmeego opens this .. more devices to choose from different vendors15:02
cehtehof course there will be unfortunate compromises15:03
tybolltwhat other devices?15:03
cehtehin future15:03
Ceron^yeh tell me?15:03
Ceron^what other?15:03
tybolltall the  ... intel mobile phones/netbooks? ehr?15:03
Ceron^Intel netbook with meego15:03
Ceron^almost like Apple IPad15:03
* tybollt goes *POP* like a lemming15:03
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Ceron^the reason i supported maemo and bought a n900 was because i predicted it the os would stay alive for sometime :\15:04
HukkaCeron^: C'mon, sell the phone already and go drink with the money, and not just rant15:04
Ceron^clearly now nokia is pushing maemo down the drain :(15:04
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HukkaCeron^: Or if you want to stick around, then don't keep saying there's no point15:04
ifreqand who says that Ceron^15:04
thorbjornCeron^: Hmm, that's a strange conclusion.15:04
ifreqstop being an emo15:04
cehtehCeron^: this merger doesnt mean that the os dies15:04
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ifreqor change the channel pls15:04
HukkaPersonally I've no inclination to stop deving for Fremantle15:04
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threshbut you have to!15:05
threshnokia tells you not to!15:05
HukkaI know that it will work with Harmattan too, and probably be easy to port to whatever is next, since it's Qt15:05
threshwell, it doesnt. but it's IRC, i can tell whatever i want.15:05
tybolltemo's aside - the issue is still - and I don't see any of your wide-mouths answering that... Will meego be moblin w/ a little bit of maemo sprinkled on top or will it be a full on fusion between the two?15:05
timelessthresh "say", not "tell"15:05
Hukkatybollt: How should we know, after three hours? Ask again in two weeks, when we have the source15:06
timelesstybollt: it sounds like the ui will be mostly maemo615:06
Ceron^moblin will be something like android :l probally15:06
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timelessand some lower level architecture will be mostly meego15:06
pillar_tomorrow is a q&a for meego at twitter15:06
Shapeshiftertybollt: it says on the page that the underlying stuff will be moblin15:06
Shapeshifterso, that answers the question15:06
Shapeshifterhowever you rephrase it15:06
HukkaCeron^: Of course it will. It will use JAva, that isnt' JAva... wait ummm. I mean it will have it's off-tree kernel... no, not that either... umm...15:07
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cehtehwhich isnt that bad moblin is linux kernel with gnu userland too .. maybe even less propietary things than maemo has already15:08
cehtehand not a java vm like android15:08
tybolltShapeshifter: ack, but I want this from !webpage, I'd love for a nookla to elaborate on that :)15:08
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* tybollt pours timesless a drink :)15:08
* timeless fines tybollt for an excess s15:09
* tybollt apologies15:09
inztimesless looks like some dead bird: *<15:09
timelesshi inz, in town?15:09
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inztimeless, this time in Tampere, which you might even concider a town, although just about to leave15:10
tybollttimeless: Reporting a bug that has to do w/ flash, will it be a no brainer WONTFIX or will it be looked at?15:10
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inztimeless, almost came to Hell(sinki) last friday, but TelCo'd instead15:11
Shapeshiftereverything's gonna be awesome. Anyway, dpkg-buildpackage built my package, and I was able to install it on my n900 and the app runs. However, I'm using a couple of images in my app, which I naturally place in /usr/share/iculounge. (e.g. in my Makefile I have 'cp open.png /usr/share/iculounge', maybe I should make that 'install -Dm644 ...') but this stuff is missing, and I looked into the .deb file and its missing there as well.15:11
ShapeshifterHow do I need to do this correctly?15:11
Lantizia1Moblin can get screwed, do not discontinue Maemo - please15:11
threshok, i would not15:12
ifreqLantizia1: ok we wont15:12
Lantizia1sarcasm? :)15:12
Lantizia1I'm still unclear if this does or doesn't mean the end of Maemo15:13
timelesslantizia1: devs have no control over managers15:13
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timelessor management15:13
Lantizia1Does it mean the end of maemo?15:13
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LynoureLantizia1: depends on what you mean by "the end"15:13
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Lantizia1i.e. a seperate distribution based on debian called Maemo15:14
LynoureI assume.15:14
timelessmaemo is an evolving ecosystem15:14
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inzthresh, :D15:14
Lantizia1thats what I mean15:14
ifreqend is near!!15:14
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threshWE ALL GONA DIE15:14
timelesseach release of maemo has been fairly different from its predecessor15:14
threshoups i missed one N15:14
cehtehpanic is near :P15:14
ShapeshifterLantizia1: relax.15:14
inzDie? [yn]15:14
timelessnote that maemo was never a distribution15:14
LynoureMeeGo is rpm based, right? that's what irks me, but oh well :)15:14
timelessMer is15:14
timelesslynoure: i believe so15:14
Lantizia1Maemo is as much as a distrubtion as Mer15:15
inzLynoure, according to #meego, yes15:15
threshi wonder why people are against rpm15:15
Lantizia1it's shit15:15
threshnothing really bad with it15:15
timelessthresh: because NIH15:15
* ifreq pets hes n900.. there there i still love you15:15
threshyeah, many maintainers cant write proper spec files, but it's not a tool issue15:15
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jokeer89anyone use symbian?15:15
threshwe all do here.15:15
jokeer89only maemo?15:16
Lynourethresh: preferences.15:16
Lantizia1Come someone _please_ clarify... does this mean the end of a debian based distribution continuing in the future? (i.e. what we know of as Maemo)15:16
tybolltdo we15:16
furunk3ljokeer89, i did. but now i am in pleasureland15:16
StskeepsLantizia1: there'll still be fremantle afterlife.15:16
tybolltLantizia1: yes it does15:16
Lantizia1I don't want an afterlife!15:16
jokeer89furunk3l can you help me?15:16
Shrik3no one really uses symbian, people just suffer it, it's like a disease15:16
furunk3ljokeer89, i dont know15:17
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inzAt least rpm gives nice progress bar on command line when installing packages =)15:17
Shapeshifterany hints on my /usr/share problem?15:17
Lynourethresh: Nothing wrong with rpm, as such, but I'm otherwise a debian kind of girl, would prefer similar packaging instead of having to deal with two (and alien is not sufficient as a solution)15:17
furunk3ljokeer89, that depends on your issues ;)15:17
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jokeer89its easy15:17
Lantizia1fuck this think I'll sell my N90015:17
* tybollt envisions nothing more on the n900, perhaps a bug fix update - feature freeze. then new device Q2 this tear w/ dinGOO os.15:17
* thresh uses both15:17
jokeer89i want to programming a notes for symbian15:17
Lantizia1it's dead already15:17
jokeer89what is the best language?15:17
jokeer89i can do this with python?15:17
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BluesLeejokeer89: chinese?15:17
tybolltjokeer89: elisp15:17
MiXu-What's the big deal about rpm?15:17
Lantizia1it's shit15:18
MiXu-It's just another packaging system. They make it work and you won't have to worry about it.15:18
adeusrpm always reminds me of a classic bug report
povbot`Bug 119185: was not found.15:18
thresh looks interesting15:18
adeusa fun read if you're reaallly bored :)15:18
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Lantizia1exactly adeus15:18
jokeer89this is waht i want to do:15:18
bigonLantizia1: because rpm are way much slower than deb15:18
Lantizia1the whole rpm system is whoefully not as advanced as deb15:19
lizardojokeer89: for Python for Symbian, better ask on #symbian ;)15:19
jokeer89but anyoones is online15:19
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Lantizia1and debian has ruled on embedded systems for years - why on earth switch now?15:19
timelesslizardo: funny, #symbian is a ghosttown15:19
furunk3lsorry jokeer89, no can do15:19
MiXu-I wouldn't touch symbian with a long stick if I had the choice.15:20
lizardotimeless: yes, it has always been a lot less popular then #maemo and now #meebo ;)15:20
jokeer89but what mobiles the people have on this channel?15:20
* bigon doesn't remember with who he talks about syncevolution and ipv6 on friday :(15:20
Lynourebigon: grep the logs, if you have any?15:20
Netrumi quite enjoyed my 5800. however the n900 is far superior :)15:20
lizardotimeless: but I've seen a couple of PyS60 related questions answered there (but not many, unfortunately)15:20
timelessjokeer89: i'm chatting from an n90015:20
jokeer895800 its symbian15:20
jokeer89i have n85 and its symbian lol15:21
timelesslizardo: really? wow15:21
timelessjokeer89: "it's"15:21
jokeer89can i create a db using python ?15:21
Netrumtimeless: wich irc client do you use?15:22
timelessircii i think15:22
timelessit's in a remote screen session15:22
Lynourejokeer89: create = code from scratch? why? or create = create in mysql/postgres/sqlite? yes.15:22
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Hukkatimeless: Flash from the back :)15:22
jokeer89create in the phone15:23
jokeer89not on a online server15:23
aquatixtimeless: yep, ircII :)15:23
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jokeer89create a new aplication and a db for the aplication on the phone15:23
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Lynourejokeer89: that's a yes. You can probably even run mysql or postgres on N900... sqlite certainly :)15:24
cehteh... maybe intel has faster servers than nokia, that would be an advantage :P15:24
timelessi must say, meego's sire is a lot more professional than symbian's15:24
infobottimeless meant: i must say, meego's site is a lot more professional than symbian's15:24
jokeer89i have symbian15:24
cehtehthe unreliability of the nokia servers is close to spectacular15:24
jokeer89one person says me: it is possible to create you own database using e32dbm, e32db or pickle module (just to cite some alternatives).15:25
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bigonsatmd: did you investigate the syncevolution and ipv6 problem further?15:25
lizardojokeer89: try joining #pys6015:25
SpeedEvilLynoure: fennec already uses sqlite15:25
jokeer89thanks libben15:25
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lizardojokeer89: PyS60 == Python running on Symbian15:26
jokeer89is it posible to install maemo on n85?15:26
jokeer89yes i know.15:26
LynoureSpeedEvil: yes. I said "certainly"15:26
lizardojokeer89: Maemo is for Nokia internet tablets,  i.e. N770 , N800, N810, N90015:26
LynoureSpeedEvil: even my own project uses sqlite.15:26
jokeer89ok for rich people heh15:27
Hukkajokeer89: Python should have sqlite support builtint. Not sure if Symbian has stripped it, though.15:27
jokeer89i document about this15:27
Netrumi really need to get around and get me a dataplan with my mobileprovider...15:27
jokeer89i want only to create a new notes apliccation for syncrhonize on a webserver page that i create15:27
jokeer89seems easy?15:28
Lynourejokeer89: depends on the details. Just get started :)15:28
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jokeer89thanks people15:29
jokeer89i go to pys60 and symbian channels but seems dead channels15:29
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lizardojokeer89: read the topic there ... "just ask your question and wait"15:29
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satmdbigon: no, didn't15:30
jokeer89i see that pys60 have sqlite15:30
HukkaThen use that, don't roll your own. It's better15:30
jokeer89good hehe15:31
jokeer89i go to shcool15:31
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jokeer89but python is the best way?15:32
jokeer89or java or symbian c++15:32
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Lynourejokeer89: best is the enemy of good... I tend to get into analysis paralysis with 'best'. Does it need to be the best way?15:32
villemvsymbian c++ is dead now15:32
Hukkajokeer89: Overall, I'd say yes. But I don't know on symbian15:33
villemvsteer clear15:33
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Hukkajokeer89: Seems like this is a new thing to you, PYthon is generally easier to learn15:33
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jokeer89yes its new for me programming with phone's15:33
jokeer89i read about python is easy15:33
jokeer89and i do some example and its very easy the language15:33
jokeer89and shorter15:33
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jokeer89but i dont know if have limitations15:34
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HukkaGo and find out15:34
Lynourejokeer89: it's very versatile. but can be slow in some uses. Yours does not sound like such a use.15:34
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HukkaThe biggest problems will be the possible limitations on PyS60 compared to "full" Python. I don't know what they are, if there are any15:35
Netruma few years ago i told myself never get too involved with computer's and the likes again... now the n900 made me want to learn programing again.15:35
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Netrumi take it i should focus on qt for now ? learn that then learn something else later?15:36
jokeer89Lynoure what? python is no good for what i want to do15:36
ShapeshifterHow can I refresh the icon cache? When I install a new app, it usually happens that there's just a blue square as the icon. After a while, it shows the correct icon. Can I do this manually?15:36
Shapeshifterneed to check if my icon is working15:36
Hukkajokeer89: She's saying you don't need speed15:36
alteregojokeer89: she said it'd be fine.15:36
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Hukkajokeer89: So it's fine. Now go and try things. We have spoken.15:36
jokeer89ok xdd sorry my enlgish15:36
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alteregoAnd not knowing what you're talking about, I'd say learning and developing in python is probably the best solution for you rioght now anyway.15:37
jokeer89i go tomorrow!15:37
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HukkaShapeshifter: Hm, what about adding a shortcut to desktop?15:37
LynoureHukka: thanks for interpreting. :)15:37
|RHoly shit MeeGo (just woke up, sorry :P)15:37
HukkaShapeshifter: I think that rechecks the icon, since it needs a different size than the app menu15:37
ShapeshifterHukka: did that. It doesn't update the icons for me15:37
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Hukka|R: /j #meego15:38
HukkaShapeshifter: Reboot... Sorry, don't know15:38
Shapeshifteryeah rebooting works :P15:38
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|Roh :)15:38
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iPeter-Hi, is there any way to get ">" or "<" on Nokia N900 (tried to google, but no answer"15:39
HukkaiPeter-: You mean on xterm, or what?15:39
iPeter-On converstations (sms etc)15:39
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ShapeshifteriPeter-: in my layout, --> + strg + pick < > on the onscreen keyboard, works15:39
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nid0enable onscreen keyboard is the solution I found15:40
HukkaiPeter-: Did you try the symbols menu?15:40
cehtehor self-define some key combos15:40
iPeter-Hukka: Thanks. I have been thinking what is that "Sym" button, there it was. Thank you.15:40
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Hukkacehteh, nid0: KISS, guys, KISS :)15:41
Milo-whee, gnu coreutils are in extras or extras testing15:41
tybolltwho you calling stupid there hukka? :)15:41
Milo-finally better coreutils15:41
nid0I miss my e90 keyboard :(15:41
HukkaMilo-: Well that was ambiguous :)15:41
Hukkatybollt: Not you!15:41
cehtehfor emacs you want some extra keys and not the on-screen keyboard :P15:41
Milo-Hukka not sure where they are, yet..15:42
crashanddieemacs fail15:42
iPeter-Hey, second question. Is there anyway to use 2 simcards on N900? I got one card with free sms + calling to my GF and one card is to my "personal" use. Is there anyway to use multiple cards. Like copy that chip or something.15:42
Milo-maemo's default coreutils is stripped down version15:42
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N900eviliPeter-, no15:42
crashanddieiPeter-: no15:42
nid0you could always buy a cheap chinese n900 knockoff15:42
N900eviliPeter-, well - not without another phone15:42
HukkaiPeter-: You don't consider texting your GF to be personal :?15:42
nid0most of the clones tend to be dual sim15:43
alteregoHeh, someone was just saying meego will run on N90015:43
iPeter-Hukka: Its work :D15:43
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tybolltHukka: actually seeing as I'm a hurri and all.. I guess I am a bit stupid :)15:43
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alteregoin the #meego channel.15:43
iPeter-a job (:15:43
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Hukkatybollt: But don't worry, we underperform :)15:43
N900eviliPeter-, another phone over bt could be used to make calls - but...15:43
bigonsatmd: ok I I will report the bug then... where should I repport then ?15:43
Hukkatybollt: (There was an article in this Tech&Economy magazine, that even when we are better than you swedes, we underperform. Like in ice hockey, or something... :)15:44
iPeter-N900evil: Hmm, so i should buy other phone and i could bt pair em, and i can select what card i use to make call / sms?15:44
N900eviliPeter-, in principle yes. the software doesn't support this though.15:45
iPeter-Ofc it doesnt :E15:45
tybolltHukka: Why did I know you would mention hockey? :P15:45
Hukkatybollt: I don't even follow it, so I don't have a clue on what's happened15:45
HukkaI just read the article when doing my thing at the loo in the morning15:46
crashanddieiPeter-: you can't expect it to do this15:46
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crashanddieiPeter-: and even if you did get another phone, the calls would have to go *through* that other phone15:46
crashanddieiPeter-: it's not like the phone would just provide you with SIM details15:46
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satmdbigon: I'm not exactly sure15:47
zashwait, what15:47
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satmdI don't think it's syncevolution's fault15:47
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zashmaemo + moblin?15:47
satmdbut a probalem with the .deb built for maemo15:47
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adeus"Not charging, insufficient power"15:48
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adeuscool havent seen that before15:49
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iPeter-crashanddie: Okay. Well, i dont know what i should to do. Getting to high phone bills coz i talk too much with my gf on the phone, and sms.15:50
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crashanddieiPeter-: and that is our problem because?15:51
iPeter-It aint (:15:51
crashanddieiPeter-: just get a better bloody contract, or swap SIM cards15:51
Shrik3get a fixed cost data plan and use skype and IM15:51
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iPeter-mm, maybe i have to get another phone. Thanks anyway15:52
Shrik3so it's the phones fault when you blab too much with your gf?-)15:53
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Netrumquick question: how does having the phone permantly connected to internett thru 3g/hsdpa affect batterylife? havent tryed it myself yet.15:53
Netrumhaving it connect 24/7 that is.15:53
* RichiH mumbles15:54
crashanddiedid I miss something?15:54
Ken-YoungNetrum, I only get about 3 hours per charge if I'm doing heavy data transfer via 3G on my N900.15:54
RichiHyesterday, i finally decided to buy a n90015:54
crashanddiewhat's this meego shit?15:54
RichiHtoday, meego is announced15:54
tybolltcrashanddie: big time, mate :)15:54
StskeepsRichiH: it is a plus15:54
HukkaNetrum: Doesn't affect, unless you are moving data15:54
tybolltcrashanddie: intel moblin + nokia maemo == meego as of today15:54
tybolltsee ari jaaksi bog15:54
Hukka(Compared to just having non data packet network connection on)15:54
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HukkaNetrum: But things like skype being on the status bar does affect it a lot15:55
crashanddiefuck, this is definitely not good15:55
RichiHStskeeps: as much as maemo 5 for the n810? oh, wait, there _is_ no maemo 5 for the n81015:55
HukkaI keep the data connection on, but IM off15:55
crashanddieRichiH: mer15:55
javispedrofrom a technical standpoint, it seems they trashed the lower levels of Maemo and are going to be using Moblin's.15:55
Netrumanyone done a comparison on skype versus regular phonecall when it comes to battery drainage ?15:55
RichiHcrashanddie: well, yes. but still15:55
StskeepsRichiH: MeGoo is OSS.15:55
javispedrobut the GUI layer of Maemo (or maybe both)15:56
crashanddieRichiH: well, it was always quite well known that maemo 6 might not support the n90015:56
StskeepsRichiH: which makes things a hell lot easier15:56
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RichiHStskeeps: not all of maemo is (same for meego, i would assume). gsm interfaces and some applications15:56
crashanddiebut I don't want to lose maemo ffs15:56
StskeepsRichiH: ofono runs on top of Mer.15:57
StskeepsRichiH: but let's see where this leads us.15:57
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RichiHcrashanddie: yah, i always assumed that meamo 6 would not run on the n900, but dropping the name will not exactly make developers flock to meamo in general, either15:57
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crashanddieRichiH: indeed15:58
* RichiH will prolly still buy a n900 (after waiting out what else MWC brings)15:58
crashanddieRichiH: I think they want to get rid of the bad rep Maemo has15:58
RichiHi think they want the weigth intel has15:58
Stskeepsand get rid of the communist cabal, of course ;p15:58
RichiHmeego will run on arm _and_ intel, mind15:58
crashanddieRichiH: the one thing that keeps coming back when you listen to Nokia marketing people, was that Maemo was geeky15:58
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RichiHcrashanddie: yah, that is why i like it :p15:58
crashanddieRichiH: well, it would be a significant edge over other platforms15:59
crashanddieRichiH: android can only run on ARM, and iPhoneOS too15:59
RichiHcrashanddie: yes, if intel & nokia do this the right way, it might become awesome15:59
wirelessdreamerthey need a widely adopted platform to compete with apple on the mobile side15:59
iscapeandroid ran on intel too15:59
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javispedroa widely adopted platform is exactly what Apple doesn't use.15:59
iscapeubuntu had done work on it15:59
javispedrothey use a specific platform for a specific device.15:59
RichiHcrashanddie: as android is basically a glorified VM, i doubt they are limited to arm16:00
wirelessdreamerbut apple has the dev's commited to them16:00
RichiHalso, who says that apple does not have an x86 iphone os in a drawer?16:00
RichiHwindows NT ran on various platforms, as well16:00
oscillikRichiH: they do16:00
wirelessdreamerapple doesn't do mass anything16:00
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wirelessdreamerthey want you to be forced to use their hw16:00
oscillikRichiH: the iPhone OS is based on a Mac OS X kernel, which as we know is cross architecture16:00
crashanddieoscillik: no, it's not16:01
wirelessdreamerapple x only will run on apple hardware, and there are lawsuits to back that16:01
crashanddiegod the things you have to hear16:01
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RichiHoscillik: i know. but as they dropped stuff like memory protection etc, there _might_ be some other changes as well16:01
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oscillikcrashanddie: isn't it?16:01
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RichiHcrashanddie: from what i read, i think the iphone os is at least based on os x aka freebsd16:02
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crashanddienot really. It's like saying that a linux-i686 is cross-platform because the main linux tree supports multiple archs16:02
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crashanddieand will all the drivers that are in a kernel, reimplementing it on a new architecture isn't just recompiling16:03
oscillikahh yes, it seems like it is just a variant of the XNU kernel16:03
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crashanddieWell I'll be damned16:08
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crashanddieanyone got links to Ari's blog or something?16:09
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crashanddiebtw, about 2 years ago, I applied for jobs with a company called OpenedHand, I wanted to be a dev for them because they did quite a few things with Maemo. Long story short, I never got to the interview stage, because they were bought by Intel...16:12
bigonsatmd: mm and where can I repport it  for the maemo .deb?16:12
crashanddie00:11 < slaine_> yes, they worked very closely with the platform and took that expertise to the moblin project.16:12
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RichiH"So what’s with Maemo6? Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance."16:12
sejo_ppeople using syncevolution with funambol make sure tho configuration shows the correct Calendar type (Maemo Calendar) oc your sync will fail16:12
satmdI'm not sure, that's why I didn't report it yet16:13
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wirelessdreamerhopefully nokia will add their media player source code to the project, its a bit lacking, and would love to be able to fix that16:13
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trbsjust read the news that there scrapping maemo :(16:16
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* trbs is so sad16:16
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crashanddiein french16:17
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crashanddie"megot" (pronounced the same as meego) means: "cigarette but"16:17
Stskeepstrbs: it's not getting scrapped16:17
tybolltcrashanddie: Oh thr irony >:D16:17
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ifreqrun to the hills16:18
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Jaffatrbs: It's the opposite of scrapping; it's become the new LIMO!16:19
tigertspeaking of maemo616:20
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* tigert installs widgets gallery from extras-devel16:20
eeanit's more like we our competition is being scraped :)16:20
RichiHbtw, what is the state of free navigation on maemo 5?16:20
eeanI do think its odd there's nothing on about it. and clearly meego isn't a community site, so where is going to live.16:21
Stskeepstigert: it's published now?16:21
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TanuvaRichiH: don't you dare asking such questions...16:21
eeantic what's the state of paid navigation on maemo 5? :D16:21
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tigertStskeeps: looks like it is16:21
RichiHthat bad, eg?16:21
Stskeepstigert: free or non-free?16:21
tigertdidnt check what this package is16:21
Stskeepsah, non-free16:21
TanuvaRichiH: it works, but only with internet connection if you need to search for a location16:22
Stskeepstigert: i have, was just unsure what they got to :(16:22
Stskeepser, :)16:22
florianTanuva: Hum well... I'd see it the other way around: _Here_ RichiH is allowed to ask this question ;)16:22
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Tanuvaflorian: okay, that's an argument16:22
X-Fadetigert: non-free? License issues?16:22
toggles_wMeeGo home now...16:23
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tigertI dont think so16:23
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dracflamloc_did anyone else see the news about maemo and moblin merging?16:25
crashanddiedracflamloc_: join the fun! #meego16:25
Jaffadracflamloc_: What?!16:25
trbsJaffa, Stskeeps, humm... that is the way i read the news... :( specially when going from deb->rpm that seems such a massive change to me that there will be little of maemo left afterward ?16:25
dracflamloc_i'm scared16:25
dracflamloc_for my poor n90016:25
StskeepsJaffa: what rock have you been hiding under?16:25
RichiHTanuva: eww16:25
tigertdracflamloc_: I am pretty sure your N900 will continue to work just like it did until today16:26
Jaffatrbs: deb->RPM isn't the biggest change. The change to developers will be relatively minor, especially as Qt (Creator) & MADDE will increasingly abstract things anyway. No, the biggest shakeup is in the community16:26
JaffaStskeeps: ;-)16:26
crashanddieStskeeps: sarcasm. You know you want it.16:26
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tigertmost likely it wont self-destruct because of the news16:26
dracflamloc_i'm pretty sure i buy a 500 phone so its not obsolete two weeks after I buy it16:26
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tybolltcrashanddie: :P16:26
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crashanddiedracflamloc_: hey, that's exactly what happens when you buy a computer, and guess what, the N900 is brought to market as exactly that, a mobile computer ;)16:27
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alteregoNo python-opengl?!16:27
tigertmy N810 is not obsolete, a friend is borrowing it and enjoys it immensely16:27
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dracflamloc_crashanddie, yes but with a computer i can upgrade peices to keep it relevant16:27
dracflamloc_andi can upgrade the OS no problem16:27
threshnot with a laptop16:27
dracflamloc_since the n900s hardware isnt the issue here16:27
alteregodracflamloc_: does relevant mean bleeding edge?16:27
dracflamloc_its only relevant to talk about the OS16:27
sejo_pRichiH: I use the mapper that has the openstreetmaps but it still downloads them16:28
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sejo_pRichiH: there is no mapper with voice neither16:28
jaskahaha, rpm?16:28
* jaska hurls16:28
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Stskeepsif noone noticed, DUI seems to be in extras-devel16:29
TanuvaRichiH: and it calculates strange routes from time to time and won't adjust it if you drive somewhere else16:29
TanuvaRichiH: which is quite annoying!16:29
threshhow do i set n900 hostname?16:30
threshto stay the same after reboots16:30
zapx86 phones, muhaha16:31
Tanuvathresh: modifying /etc/hostname should survive a reboot...16:31
zapwhat a bad joke16:31
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threshTanuva: okay.16:32
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trbsJaffa, i agree that the community change is (potentially) huge, but changing van deb -> rpm doesn't seem to be a small matter. Is nokia really going to repackage maemo ? or are they moving to the moblin codebase and making it more maemoisch ? (if anybody knows :)16:35
villagerI suppose I'm gonna install Mer before I install meego16:35
* alterego wonders if carbide++ will be on the cards in the not-so-distant future for maemo16:36
* alterego contemplates setting up a "meeno" website.16:36
* alterego chuckles16:36
javispedrotrbs: I guess the latter.16:37
javispedrotrbs: the first wouldn't make sense.16:37
alteregoHas anyone thought about MER?! :)16:37
threshis there any problem with extras-devel now? i keep getting: W: Failed to fetch  Hash Sum mismatch16:37
threshdoing apt-get update on the device itself16:37
juliankI'm disappointed. Who the fuck at Nokia agreed that RPM is OK for MeeGo?16:37
trbsjavispedro, that's what i would think as-well (which is why i called it scrapping maemo)16:37
javispedrotrbs: I think they scrapped the GUI parts of Moblin, or at least plan to do so. (Moblin used Gtk)16:38
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crashanddiewell at least now we know where the single sign-on effort went... and why it never came to be on Maemo16:38
zapany pointers about RPM really?16:38
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trbsjavispedro, ow i thought it was QT already... but no matter :) thought moving to Qt for embedded/phone devices is a pretty good move (though i love gtk, i can really see why qt would be better)16:38
etammeso .. wtf is going on? i mean .. i just  got my n900... i dont even know what i should be learning to develop for it16:39
etammemoving to qt ... and now meego?16:39
etammeits tough to create a strong base with such a fast moving target16:39
zapetamme: write console programs16:39
njsf_1Let's be realistic. The issue is not the file format. The issue is the expressiveness of the dependencies.16:39
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: ping16:39
jreznikjuliank: for me as fedore devel it's better, I was lost with debs :D16:39
crashanddieGAN900: ping16:39
alteregoetamme: just target Qt, meego is beside the point.16:39
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javispedro"target QT" is pretty generic16:39
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etammewhat is the future of the n900?  is meego like .. in the next year ?16:40
etammewhat about maemo 6 ?16:40
alteregoetamme, based on Qt, what do you mean what about it?16:40
jrezniketamme: start with Qt 4.6... but this is the exact thing that killed openmoko - from gtk to qt, from qt to efl... and no stable development platform...16:40
juliankjreznik: Just because you are not able to do good packaging.16:40
Ceron^nokia already stopped caring for n900 :p16:40
alteregoI think right now, you should forget about meego, concentrate on your N900 and maemo16:40
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trbsi hope mer stays debian based, then at least i can use my n900 for the next couple of years16:41
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Stskeepstrbs: i plan mer related to fremantle so far.16:41
etammeyeah .. im a little disheartened  with all this crap16:42
Tanuvajreznik: and efl develops so fast that one has to redo code every "release"16:42
javispedroI have to wonder why Intel.16:42
etammei had my n810 ... which is now obsolete b/c it can not run maemo 516:42
etammeand now .. i have had my n900 for 2 weeks16:42
javispedroWeird relationship, much like Apple vs Google.16:42
alteregojavispedro: who else? ARM? bahahaha16:42
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etammeand im watching this crap happen16:42
Stskeepsetamme: N900 has more opportunity than n810.16:42
etammei understand changing windowing toolkits .. thats fine16:42
jreznikjuliank: yep, I failed to do a simple deb file even, so yes, I can't make any good package :D but I had same problem with first RPM package... it's just what you are used to use16:42
wolf^juliank, dpkg is the suck when compared to rpm16:43
etammebut this whole meego business .. and changing from deb to rpm etc. etc.16:43
etammethats insane16:43
Tanuvaetamme: concentrate on what you have, I had a neo freerunner and nokia 3510i before and I'm quite happy with what it actually is :)16:43
javispedroit's clearly within Intel's interests to kill ARM. <paranoid>Embrace (Maemo), Extend (MeeGo), Extinguish</paranoid>16:43
juliankjreznik: That does not mean that I don't like Fedora or Red Hat, it just means that .deb is superior in my opinion. I had Fedora for a few months until RPM decided to destroy the database.16:43
alteregoetamme: considerthis, we're using pretty much the bleeding edge of technology in our hands right now with the N900, do you really expect it to change so drastically within the next year to make this device obsolete?16:43
trbsStskeeps, cool :)16:43
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jreznikjuliank: I like RPM but I don't think one is better than other - there are cons/pros for both...16:43
etammealterego, well if meamo gets dropped16:43
alteregoNot just the N900, hardware, but the rsoftware.16:44
alteregoetamme: it's not going to get dropped, who said anything about it being dropped?16:44
etammeim not concerned  so much about the hardware .. i just want to see a stable platform.16:44
jreznikjuliank: if something destroyed your db - yes, it was bug but not file format bug but application bug...16:44
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etammealterego, it seems a lot of the meego stuff would basically be mutually exclusive with the existing maemo platform16:45
juliankjreznik: Maybe also a system crash, although I can't remember Fedora ever crashing; except during the early days of KMS16:45
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alteregoetamme: not really, what are you talking about specifically?16:46
juliankjreznik: Still I like the mighty apt-get more than everything else. It's just a nice feeling to use a software one helps to develop.16:46
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jreznikjuliank: rpm was indeed in bad state few releases ago, but panu, festi and jindra novy are working really hard to get in shape again16:47
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etammealterego, ... if maemo and mobilin are now meego ... is maemo 6 axed ?  is the N series going to run meego in the future?16:47
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etammei just saw a press release .. so i have little information16:47
TanuvaI guess the meego release is going to become what maemo 6 was planned to be16:48
alteregoetamme, maemo 6 hasn't been axed, meego is a merging of the bext of both worlds, it's an evolution not a culling.16:48
jrezniketamme: maemo 6 is instance of meego... that's they say16:48
juliankjreznik: One of the things I like is that yum & rpm just look better (less verbose) than apt-get&deb.16:48
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jaskawell, one can hope mer or something picks up the n900s after nokia abandons them16:49
etammealterego, the meego site isnt very clear on what the changes are.... such as the changing of deb to rpm ... that seems pretty significant to me.16:49
trbsStskeeps, you guys have (or plan to have) Mer running on hardware like beagleboard's ?16:49
etammeand it will obviously break a lot of existing development16:49
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alteregoetamme: well, from meego's specific, there is now change, it's a new system.16:49
timeless_mbpetamme: all things considered, packaging isn't a big deal16:49
alteregos/specific/perspective ..16:49
jrezniketamme: gtk -> qt is bigger change, deb -> rpm is big change but it's just repackaging (lot of work but not as hard as porting code)16:50
etammeany how .. my only concern... is that i dont want maemo development to get fractured by having a constantly moving target16:50
timeless_mbpthe gtk -> qt change was happening for Maemo 6 with or without this16:50
timeless_mbpetamme: so um16:50
timeless_mbpmaemo has always been a moving target16:51
trbsjreznik, do you know which of the two code bases will be the 'base' of the merge ?16:51
etammetimeless_mbp, i know ..16:51
timeless_mbpi highly doubt you can find a maemo1 app that runs on maemo516:51
alteregoetamme: well, use Qt, I don't see what you mean by constant moving target, all of this has been known for months.16:51
etammethe meego thing just seemed kind of out of left field16:51
etammeand i didnt really get a lot of info about what it invovled16:51
alteregoetamme: wait, and in the meantime, just develop using the maemo Qt oriented libraries.16:51
jrezniktrbs: from what I have read it looks like Gtk is staying and not going to be just community supported only16:52
jreznikbut I'm not Nokia nor Intel devel, even not Maemo one yet :(16:52
etammealterego, yeah .. im sure things are not going to go crazy .. i just want to get some more info ... and i dont know why i didnt hear this from nokia at all?16:52
Stskeepstrbs: i think i'm going to reduce a bit on Mer portability atm.16:52
trbsjreznik, hehe :) me neither.... i've been working on maemo on beagleboard to build my own home-automation and security systems (besides having a n900 and coding some convenience apps for it)16:53
trbsstanojr, ok16:54
Stskeepstrbs: look at maemo-on-omap16:54
* corecode eyes meego16:55
jrezniktrbs: I'd like to port one of my apps to maemo, but I was waiting to stabilize Qt on maemo - looks like it just happened with Qt 4.6.216:55
zapAnybody knows if it's possible to re-partition the internal flash on N810? I need one more partition16:56
crashanddieI'm honestly thinking about just dropping the whole thing16:56
jreznikbut first I'd like to start with easier one app - but I don't want what to code for N900 - it has everything I want... I was checking top iPhone/Android apps and usually lot of these apps are already in base system or totally useless apps... :D16:56
trbsStskeeps, ok can imaging why you do that for mer, I was looking at
crashanddiejust, stop being a mod, stop being an op, stop coming to IRC16:57
crashanddieand just not care anymore16:57
trbsluckilly most of development for screen, interface and daemons can be done quite easily in the scratchbox env :)16:57
Tanuvajreznik: totally useless apps are mostly the most fun :D16:57
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lcukjreznik, what are your apps16:58
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Stskeepstrbs: http://www.omappedia.org16:58
LantiziaI can't put in to words how angry I am at this announcement16:58
StskeepsLantizia: pitchforks! torches!16:59
Lantiziabecause it's a huge step back16:59
trbsStskeeps, yeah was looking at the getting_started page for fremantle :)16:59
jrezniklcuk: makneto - xmpp whiteboarding tool... it could be nice to have it with touchscreen device... but the current code is mess - it needs rewrite from scratch, nice opportunity to do it but lot of work16:59
LantiziaOnly had the N900 2 months and already it's a product with an uncertain future17:00
ifreqlcuk: howz liqbabe :)17:00
trbsStskeeps, last question :) how tightly is the gui of maemo/mer integrated into the system... aka would it be possible to go the other way and take debian/arm and put the mer gui on top of that ?17:01
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Stskeepstrbs: guess what i'm doing..17:02
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LantiziaDoes anyone some other nice debian/gtk based phone?17:02
lcukjreznik, :) you seen the sort of stuff i do ;)
trbshehe sorry... with your reply sounds like i was stating the obvious lol :)17:03
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lcukifreq, im as well as can be expected with a funeral tomorrow17:03
ifreqLantizia: pls come back later17:03
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Lantiziaifreq: why?17:03
SpeedEviltrbs: maemo - quite heavily.17:03
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ifreqlcuk: ah thats bad :P17:03
aquatixlcuk: you have 3 n900's?17:03
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SpeedEviltrbs: But you can take maemo and strip it back to a X server and little else if you want.17:04
lcukaquatix, errr17:04
SpeedEviltrbs: then in principle run whatever on it.17:04
lcukummm ;)17:04
aquatixlcuk: ah ;)17:04
mcizekhello. is there a maemo package for gnu screen? particularily for maemo 5/n900?17:04
aquatixlcuk: eh?17:04
SpeedEvilmcizek: apt-get install screen17:04
ifreqmziker check
mcizekSpeedEvil: tried that. any special repository I need to add? have extras.17:04
jrezniklcuk: wow, that's nice!17:05
SpeedEvilunsure where I got it from17:05
mcizekSpeedEvil: extras-testing?17:06
lcukjreznik, thats only a tiny part17:06
aquatixheh, #meego is a torrent17:06
trbsSpeedEvil, true... but the hope for me was to be able to focus on the home-automation part and not having to worry about gui + embedded system... that's why i thought something like maemo would be 'perfect'. fancy interface + os without the hazzle :)17:06
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lcukjreznik, it sits ontop of
javispedroaquatix: oh, it's always fun to be in the middle of a culture clash17:06
aquatixjavispedro: yep :)17:06
aquatixmaemo! moblin! rpm! deb!17:07
aquatixlove it17:07
javispedroqt! gtk!17:07
trbsnow i must admit, that for my hobby projects i just do not want to touch anything else then debian or *bsd17:07
javispedroadd openmoko to the mix.17:07
trbswhy not use gnustep ? :)17:07
* vmlemon_ thinks that Fiasco, or MobGo would be a more apt name, right now ;)17:07
javispedromy vote is on the MGUPTAF = MeeGo Unified Package Tar Archive Format17:07
aquatixjavispedro: yep :)17:07
jreznikwe are planning local openmobility conference, good topic to discuss there :D17:07
SpeedEviltrbs: what do you want to run these project on?17:08
aquatixcan't they base meego on slack?17:08
crashanddieaquatix: no, most of maemo backend gets kicked out, and we go with moblin17:08
crashanddiemoblin is a fork off fedora17:08
trbsslackware... wow my first linux ... that's a flashback :)17:08
crashanddieifI understand it correctly17:08
aquatixmoblin was based on fedora, yes17:08
aquatixbut in essence, it's just a nice gtk layer17:09
aquatixit ran on ubuntu too, later17:09
crashanddiethey're not pulling from mainstream anymore17:09
jreznikaquatix: it's more like merge of fedora, opensuse and ubuntu17:09
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crashanddieaquatix: no, other way around, ubuntu first, fedore fork later17:09
javispedroso now it's going to be a merge of fedora, opensuse, ubuntu, debian and symbian.17:09
jreznikbut now it's completely on theirs own legs17:09
aquatixcrashanddie: oh? hm, then i missed some17:09
crashanddiejreznik: why opensuse? there's no zypper here17:09
javispedrodoesn't zypper cme from opensuse?17:10
javispedroI kinda remember using that for my first time in opensuse17:10
jreznikcrashanddie: they use lot of opensuse build tools17:10
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aquatixcrashanddie: or was it lightweight ubuntu with xfce4 first (v0.2something)17:10
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javispedroah, so this is the nokia master plan17:11
jreznikI can probably find fedora-devel archive emails - we were asking why they are forking fedora and do now work with fedora and they replied - it's not fedora anymore, we use some parts from fedora, suse etc..17:11
javispedroharmattan -- switch to Qt17:11
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RST38hjavispedro: Ho! Ho! Ho!17:11
javispedroinverna -- switch to E18^WRPM17:11
RST38hjavispedro: BTW, found a bug in OpenTTD17:11
javispedroRST38h: morning. and shoot :)17:11
RST38hjavispedro: When you start dragging your finger, it does not react for a while, then jumps to wherever your finger is17:12
slonopotamusRST38h, only one?17:12
RST38hjavispedro: it is kinda disorienting17:12
RST38hslono: Oh, we have been on this for a while now, it is pretty decent ;)17:12
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javispedroRST38h: I remade the entire thing in the latest fremantle version, do you have that one?17:12
RST38hjavispedro: I have whatever is in the repos (devel included)17:13
javispedroRST38h: ah, I think I see what you mean.17:13
javispedroRST38h: is the area where it does not scroll "smallish"?17:13
javispedroRST38h: that's the click vs drag detection at work17:14
RST38hjavispedro: not very small more like quarter of a screen =)17:14
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javispedroRST38h: happens randomly, or always?17:16
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koala_manare there any non-cli sftp clients?17:17
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LuciusMare_awayi might report a bug, every keypress is sent twice by the vncviewer17:17
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mcizekanyone else successfully running gnu screen and can tell me where they found it?17:18
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LuciusMaredoes it also happen to you?17:18
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RST38hjavis: always17:18
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javispedrooh, that's interesting.17:18
dexterukHi Everyone17:19
javispedrodoesn't seem to happen here with the default configuration.17:19
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RST38hjavis: mine is also default. weird17:19
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dexterukN900 question does nokia intend to release the pc suite for linux?17:19
javispedroRST38h: in fact,
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sejodexteruk: I'm not holding my breath17:21
mcizekyou could always try wine.17:22
dexterukI dont understand how they can release a phone with Linux as an OS and not provide the nokia suite for linux also... Dont they know that 99% of the first people to buy the phone will be Linux users17:22
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dexterukyes im doing that now17:22
dexterukjust  wanted to bitch see if anyone from nokia was listening :-D17:23
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* aquatix never uses desktop sync17:23
aquatixjust sync with the sky :)17:23
dexterukBut I have to say its a wonderful phone17:23
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dexteruk:-) I know there is always many ways with Open Source to do a job.. But just for once i wanted to see the big boys doing the work and not us :-D17:25
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javispedrotbh this entire merger is something I've always though it's a good idea -- moving to a fully OSS base platform (aka what I call "maemo based on mer"), but I fear this entire change of the command chain.17:26
adalalhey, just a quick question, is there a way to route the audio output and input to a computer?17:26
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X-Fadejavispedro: It really won't be opensource all the way. There will always be a closed layer.17:26
X-Fadejavispedro: But at least the common part with be open.17:27
javispedroX-Fade: yes, but this is why I prefer the base part to be OSS.17:27
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javispedroX-Fade: instead of a "mix".17:27
javispedroof upper and lower level components being closed.17:27
X-Fadejavispedro: yeah, but that is what Harmattan was supposed to be anyway.17:27
X-FadeA more clear line, but yeah I guess that is why Harmattan will be a MeeGo instance ;)17:28
javispedroif that's the case, then I'm happy.17:28
javispedrobut I think more integration than that... may be dangerous.17:29
aquatixX-Fade: hm, harmattan a meego instance? but it seems meego prefers gtk/clutter, while harmattan wants qt17:30
lucaswhich note taking/simple text editor application should I use on the N900?17:30
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javispedroI don't even see the reason to integrate the websites. Now every "MeeGo" garage project will have to be a x86/arm package.17:30
lucasvim doesn't look like an option because of the keyboard ;)17:30
juliankaquatix: Meego's primary UI toolkit is Qt.17:30
lardmanaquatix: the diagram of system sw shows Qt being the main toolkit iirc17:30
X-Fadeaquatix: huh, you didn't read the architecture chart on :)17:30
aquatixX-Fade: erm, nope O:)17:30
lardmanwell that's telling you ;)17:30
* aquatix hides in shame17:30
aquatixi still try to keep an appearance of 'work' here at... work :)17:31
lardmanyeah same, but I did sneak a quick read earlier on17:31
dexterukso when using the terminal on the n900, anyone worked out how to copy and paste?17:31
javispedroat least half of us did.17:32
fralsuh, drag to mark, appbar and "copy"?17:32
dexterukah you see didnt look there :-D17:32
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dexteruksee learning something new all the time :-D (thanks)17:33
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wazdMS just rocked with new UI I guess :)17:33
* RST38h moos at wazd17:33
wazdRST38h: moo :)17:33
RST38hwazd: Ready to buy a zunephone? =)17:33
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dexterukMS and rocked are two words i could never of imagined seeing together17:33
wazdRST38h: well, I like all that typography and simplicity stuff :)17:34
aquatixwazd: yep17:34
* aquatix too17:34
MiXu-simplicity, yay17:34
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MiXu-what they've done now is kill the responsiveness with excess candy17:35
MiXu-(generally with all smartphones)17:35
trbsdexteruk, you can use ctrl-c and ctrl-v as well as tap the top 'x terminal' bar17:35
lardmanis this the Win7 on a phone stuff?17:35
dexteruktried that and all it did for me was give me a new line17:35
aquatixtrbs: ctrl+c in a terminal does other things i guess :)17:36
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dexterukSorry guys but the only place that MS should exist is in the bin... Havent used it for over 15 years and everytime i have to is slow, not userfriendly and full of holes17:37
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lardmanlcuk: looks like win7 mobile has borrowed your liqtile interface17:38
lardmandexteruk: well some people have to use it at work17:38
lcuklardman i did give it a second glance17:39
javispedrooh god, I need to leave meego or I'll burst.17:39
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dexterukPoor company, they really dont want people to be productive do they17:39
lardmanwell it's all interesting stuff17:40
javispedroburst into laughs, of course.17:40
* lcuk has other things on his mind today17:40
lardmangot to say the ui flashiness is well done on Win mobile17:40
lardmanjavispedro: too much chatter there for the time being17:40
MiXu-MS has recently got stuff right in fact.17:40
MiXu-Like Windows 7.17:40
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aquatixjavispedro: :)17:41
aquatixjavispedro: already did17:41
aquatixjavispedro: colleagues starting to look funny at me17:41
dexterukRight you tell that to me when i get spam message from someone msn about some nake pics of you one line17:41
dexterukim sick to depth of telling you have some unwanted guests on there machine17:42
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alteregoHeh: undefined symbol: _zNK24QAbstractKineticScroller10metaObjectEv - good job nokia ...17:43
alteregoPySide is screwed on the device :(17:43
aquatixwin7 is ok-ish17:43
* aquatix sticks with linux anyway17:43
MiXu-dexteruk: No one is forcing you to install any msn clients.17:43
wazdwin7 is omgish :)17:43
dexterukall the graphics in the world cannot remove the fact that there OS is has more holes than swisscheese17:43
lizardoalterego: you need to use older qt4.6 packages17:43
aquatixwazd: in what sense?17:43
alteregolizardo: oh .. Great ... :/17:43
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wazdaquatix: in a good sense :)17:44
andre__timeless, ping17:44
aquatixdexteruk: i regard it as a toy OS17:44
lizardoalterego: you should know that Qt 4.6 on maemo is still... beta17:44
aquatixwazd: yeah, i was pleasantly surprised about the GUI17:44
doubleukay-mhi guys, my adsl is under maintenance. what's the quickest way to tether my n900 to my pc? either windows or linux17:44
jrezniklizardo: it isn't
alteregodoubleukay-m: USB cable17:45
alteregodoubleukay-m: PC Suite mode, ubuntnu detects it straight away. Windows use PC suite17:45
doubleukay-malterego, thanks, will do that17:45
lizardoalterego: I use this one liner to downgrade my qt4 packages  to ones which work together with PySide :   dpkg -l 'libqt4-maemo5*' | awk '$1 == "ii" {print $2"=4.6.2~git20100128-0maemo1"}' | xargs apt-get --yes --force-yes install17:45
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lizardojreznik: fresh news are always good :)17:46
doubleukay-mi don't have pc suite (ew) on windows so i'll hook it up on linux17:46
alteregolizardo: thanks17:46
lizardojreznik: today is the news day17:46
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lizardojreznik: thanks for heads up BTW, I'll see what can be done to push new PySide packages recompiled with this final release17:47
celestehhey, i'm running easy debian on my n900 and it's really cool.  however, i'm running very short of free space on the image.  Is there a way to resize the existing image?17:47
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alteregolizardo: that one-liner doesn't seem to do anything for me :P17:52
lizardoalterego: it says that you are using the versions ?17:53
lizardoalterego: anyway, if you can wait some hours (if there are no surprises...), I plan to recompile PySide with this final release still today :)17:54
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IcanCUso whats going with maemo?17:55
alteregolizardo: ah, I can probably wait a few hours :)17:55
IcanCUis it now dead?17:55
alteregolizardo: I'm just playing with Qt on my desktop, and wanted to see if this same form.ui file would load and what it'd look like on the N900 :)17:55
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w00tlizardo: can I prod you about a bug report wrt pyside?17:57
threshthe ultimate name would have been a 'maemoblin'17:57
IcanCUwhat does MeeGo mean for the Maemo platform?17:57
threshwould sound relly funny in Russian17:57
threshsomething like "Maemo, damn"17:57
sumanahIcanCU: read the FAQs17:58
sumanahIcanCU: + Planet Maemo17:58
alteregoI presumed they called it MeeGo because they were going to integrate Google's Go ..17:58
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IcanCUis Meego backwards compatible with Maemo?17:59
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sejoIcanCU: it's a different OS what compatibility do you want to see?18:01
IcanCUwell like maemo apps running on meego18:02
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lizardow00t: better go trough #pyside in this case :)  but note that 60% of PySide devs are away today for the Carnival holidays...18:04
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ShapeshifterIcanCU: It's likely that stuff will run. However, they'll need to be repackaged to rpm.18:04
IcanCUi see18:04
lizardow00t: so you may get some delay in getting your answer18:04
w00tlizardo: sure, i'll dig it up and ask it18:04
ShapeshifterIcanCU: it's linux. you can run pretty much anything you want. gtk and stuff will just not be the official/prime toolkit.18:04
IcanCUyeah thats a good thing18:05
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koivulaI really wonder how UI for Mobile devices and things like netbooks/laptops will be united :)18:05
HukkaIt won't of course18:06
Hukkamultitouch vs no touch18:07
HukkaDifferent paradigm18:07
guardianI just discovered about Meego's existence. What does it mean in terms of Maemo future?18:07
koivulaBut anyway Meeb^Hgo seems like a potential failure.18:07
IcanCUguardian: scroll up a bit18:07
IcanCUjust asked the same thing18:07
guardianIcanCU: I just joined, not enough backlog :/18:08
guardianIcanCU: paste in query?18:08
Hukkakoivula: Every change has the potential to fail and to succeed18:08
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IcanCUin short: maemo will be no more18:08
IcanCUit will be meego18:08
celestehHow long has this change been afoot?18:08
IcanCUthink it was new to most ppl18:09
koivulaHukka, can't really see much advantages other than boasting around that this is done with Intel and backed up mighty Linux Foundation.18:09
celestehIs this related to how few apps have been ported to the new maemo OS version, or is that just due to the newness?18:09
guardianasked on #meego without answers: I developed an hildon input method plugin that brings handwriting recognition, is there a new input method framework in meego?18:09
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Hukkakoivula: Combined resourcers and user base18:09
Shapeshifterguardian: so you used gtk?18:10
Hukkaguardian: Hildon is community supported on Harmattan, after that not at all18:10
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guardianShapeshifter: I did but I'm more concerned about the input method framework than with the UI stuf18:10
HukkaThe Moblin UX framework will be supported as a second class citizen, that is that they mean with gtk support in meego18:11
koivulaHukka, well that's true but that doesn't require merging distros. You could also just quit the other.18:11
guardianI don't mind rewriting the UI in Qt, what's important is a good input method framework18:11
koivulaHukka, but anyway don't know too much if there really is something really to gain with merge.18:12
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Hukkakoivula: That would be bad PR18:12
Hukkakoivula: And the merge does give us for example the same Qt framework, that we were getting with the original plan18:13
Hukka(Or well, I don't know if this was the original plan, but not announced as such)18:13
koivulaHukka, well maybe a pr-wizard could say we shut down this other distro in some fancy way to make it look good.18:13
Hukkakoivula: Yeah, "merge"18:13
HukkaBut anyway, it will have parts from both18:13
HukkaMoblin wasn't supposed to have Qt before this announcement18:13
HukkaSo before we had Qt in Nokia phones... and in Nokia phones. Now also in netbooks and all those embedded thingies that they say on the announcements18:14
HukkaWhich for us means that we can target a wider audience with  smaller effort than before18:14
MiXu-Yup. Makes Qt stronger.18:15
guardianin short, what in meego comes from moblin that maemo lacks?18:15
HukkaAnd there's been talk about Nokia's plans with Atom18:15
javispedrobtw, to all those harmattan on n900 naysayers, nokia's release DUI in Extras-devel18:15
HukkaThere will be an even lower power chip, and Nokia has been collaborating with Intel in hw before18:15
HukkaSo all we know, they might plan, or prepare for an Atom phone18:16
MiXu-That would make sense18:16
MiXu-And I'd be happy to get rid of arm18:16
HukkaThen it indeed makes sense to get the good hw support directly from Intel, without bothering to do all the low level R&D18:16
HukkaI've been talking with the Moblin guys for a few hours now18:16
HukkaI can say that there are benefits, but also risks18:16
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timeless_mbpandre__: pong18:17
juhovhhmm, why getting rid of arm would be that good?18:17
HukkaIt seems like moblin is actually currently more closed than Maemo is, in a way18:17
Hukkajuhovh: I'm not commenting on whether that's good or not, but only that if that's the way to go, then it makes sense to use Moblin, which is The Most Atom optimized OS there is18:17
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guardianin short, what in meego comes from moblin that maemo lacks?18:20
* aquatix gone18:21
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timeless_mbpguardian: a corporate partner18:22
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Hukkaguardian: Wider device base18:25
dockane_anyone able to charge his prepaid sim card with n900? (with some ussd*)18:25
Hukkaguardian: If you ask "What does my N900 get from Moblin" then nothing18:26
HukkaBut this is no longer only about phones18:26
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koivulaWhen there is actually an atom processor suitable for mobile PHONES?18:26
HukkaWhich I think is a good thing. There's been somewhat tongue-in-a-cheek talk about maemo tablet before18:26
HukkaThis is it18:26
Hukkakoivula: Not sure, but Moblin people indicate that somewhat soon18:26
HukkaHaven't followed the Atom trends and rumours that well18:27
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Hukkadockane_: Not possible18:27
Hukkadockane_: Use another phone18:27
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dockane_Hukka: well, thats unsatisfying. ussd codes work so far for me with ussdwidget..18:30
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HukkaOh, there's now something for ussd?18:32
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HukkaI was still under the impression that they just don't work at all18:32
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* florian wonders why planet maemo fails to pick up his blog now.18:34
etammewhere is all this info about meego etc?18:34
etammei havent seen ANYTHING on maemo.org18:34 basically has no info18:34
Hukkaetamme: There are several threads on talk18:34
HukkaIt's what we have18:34
HukkaPlus what Jaaksi wrote on his blog and the announcements18:35
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cpscottiso.. what now? forgetting all out big projects for maemo and waiting for meego?18:35
HukkaQt's here18:35
cpscotti(even though lower layer code will essentially be the same, it seems that hildon will disappear)18:35
Hukka4.6 was released18:36
guardianback to my question about input methods: what was nice is that a single instance of my hildon input method plugin (that needs to bring several mb of data into memory) was used by many gtk text widgets. does meego features the same concept? through Qt mobility maybe?18:36
HukkaI've been targetting Qt since I got N900. Gtk was going to be finished anyway. So nothings changed in that sense18:36
HukkaThe top layer will be from Maemo.18:36
X-Fadeflorian: Did you tag it with maemo?18:36
X-Fadeflorian: I only see one post in that feed.18:37
HukkaIf you are an app developer, just work as usual. If not, then you work for Nokia or Intel anyway and you know what will happen18:37
* slonopotamus uses gentoo on his n800 and looks at all this buzz with a smile :)18:37
florianX-Fade: I'd see this as correctly tagged and working:
X-Fadeflorian: That is th one in use.18:37
cpscottiHukka: well.. I was still relying in gtk...18:38
Hukkacpscotti: It wouldn't have been officially supported in Harmattan anyway18:38
bigbrovarso maemo is officially deprecated. this would mean the end of any meaningful 3rd party support for the N900 :(18:38
cpscottiI never really liked (nor experienced much) with qt18:38
X-Fadeflorian: Shall I change feeds?18:39
florianX-Fade: strange... looks like something changed at wordpress18:39
florianX-Fade: yes please18:39
Hukkacpscotti: You should, if you worry about users18:39
Hukkacpscotti: And if you were developing just for yourself, then nothing's changed18:39
X-Fadeflorian: Ok, changed.18:39
florianX-Fade: Many thanks!18:39
Hukkacpscotti: Your Gtk from your N900 won't magically be killed18:39
cpscottifor example... the hildon widgets are all in the gtk universe after all18:40
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cpscottiand I loved that they put a n900 on meego homepage18:40
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bigbrovarcpscotti: that is because they is no other phone to put there.. not like they would put the N97 :p18:41
koivulaI wonder if future MeeGo products can be upgraded to new major versions like iPhone.18:41
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bigbrovarthis news is just sinking in. I mean was it not the same nokia that was talking about plans for maemo6? It seems this was a rushed decision18:42
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Hukkabigbrovar: And nothing has been taken away from Harmattan18:43
slonopotamusso, place your bets :) will there be official meego for n900? :)18:43
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HukkaOn the contrary. Everyone who has targetted Harmattan will now suddenly find a much larger base of devices their app will work on, either with no or small effort18:43
javispedroslonopotamus: a very, very safe bet is "no".18:44
bigbrovarHukka: we hope so, I have to say the future of maemo (meego) just got blurrier18:44
Hukkaslonopotamus: No18:44
HukkaEven Harmattan isn't official meego, I think18:44
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HukkaIt's just compatible18:44
Andy80well.... do we move directly to #meego or we continue to stay here :D ?18:44
slonopotamusjavispedro, Hukka hehe :) for some reason i think that way too18:44
Hukkabigbrovar: Oh, it was blurry all along18:44
koivulaHukka, but is harmattan a free upgrade to n900?18:44
Hukkakoivula: If it is, consider it a gift18:44
Hukkakoivula: It was never _ever_ promised18:45
bigbrovarHukka: very sad.. Nokia which were are u going?18:45
javispedroAndy80: suggestion: enter #meego and say "rpm sucks lusers!"18:45
bigbrovarthat should be the new moto for nokia18:45
HukkaPeople just read rumours enough to start believing it's the official truth, and when it doesn't happen ffeel like something was stolen from them18:45
Andy80javispedro: I'm already in #meego and that was really the thing I was going to write :D18:45
HukkaAndy80: Well, this is not so much about meego as it is "what will maemo be in it's final days"18:46
MiXu-People are making a too big fuss about the whole meego thing. To me it seems that it's only a good thin.18:46
HukkaAnd whether Harmattan will come to N900 is definately not affected by this18:46
MiXu-So maybe you need to learn a new packaging system. Big deal.18:46
koivulaHukka, yes I know I hasn't promised. And maybe I should have said free or for a similar price that iPhone OS ugprades.18:46
Hukkakoivula: What I can say, is that even if you don't get Harmattan, you get a lot18:46
HukkaI'd be very surprised to see Harmattan DRM on N90018:46
HukkaBut if you only wanted the free apps, I'd be very surprised why you wouldn't get them18:47
javispedroMiXu-: whatever way you look at it, you're going to lose something (be it some part of, some unmantained software, old device support, or tmo karma). So no wonder people shits over.18:47
Andy80Hukka: N900 has not any DRM chipset... that is the problem...18:47
HukkaAfter all we are using N900 as Qt4.6 dev platform for a while now18:47
etammeharumph.....  im really not thrilled with this whole meego development.... i see n900 adopters getting a$$ Fu#@ed  just like the I did with my n810.  I can honestly only hope nokia doesnt f@ck this up, if they do - i can honestly say i will never buy a nokia product again in my life.18:47
javispedrotime will tell what the benefits are going to be...18:47
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HukkaAlso who knows, next Maemo device could have a compass, or some other hw18:47
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penguinbaitthere is no next maemo device right?18:48
Andy80Hukka: not a problem itself, but in the fact that 3rd party producers want warranties and Nokia won't allow harmattan to run on N900 since the device cannot give any warranty about anti-piracy18:48
HukkaSo that would also preclude us from the official OS. But still, we would get the extra apps18:48
javispedropenguinbait: technically, harmattan device.18:48
HukkaAndy80: Sure, but personally I would feel a lot bigger loss if I wouldn't get the OSS apps18:48
javispedroin a sense it's already outdated even before it being out :D18:48
HukkaNo it's not...18:49
Andy80harmattan is meego complatible... after all it's all about Qt! Probably it will be named "MeeGo" instead of "Maemo"18:49
X-FadeAndy80: The N900 can be locked too. ;)18:49
HukkaUnless you want to say that every device is outdated before it's out18:49
X-FadeAndy80: Harmattan will also run on omap3.18:49
HukkaWe always have rumours of what will be the next18:49
javispedroHukka: exactly (tmo point of view)18:49
Andy80Hukka: a DRM chipset doesn't deny the presence of OSS software18:49
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X-FadeAndy80: So technically they can just lock your N900 ;)18:49
HukkaGo buy an i7? It's outdated. We know Intel's going 28n18:50
Andy80X-Fade: how can they lock it?18:50
andresHell. I have a hard time not to start ranting about meego...18:50
HukkaAndy80: Yes, which was my point18:50
X-FadeAndy80: When you flash new firmware?18:50
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javispedroandres: rantings for meego go at #meego. specially rpm rants.18:50
HukkaAndy80: Won't get the official OS, will get all the OSS apps18:50
florianX-Fade: Ok, something has changed: Before the chage I saw all the old stuff here: now there are only two.18:50
HukkaFor me, it's good enough18:50
andresjavispedro: thats why I did not really start ;-)18:50
HukkaBut people, think!18:50
florianX-Fade: Do you know offhand when the planet update runs?18:50
HukkaThis means it's no longer just N90018:51
X-Fadeflorian: Once per hour.18:51
HukkaIt's no longer just a hobby project of Ari Jaaksi18:51
HukkaThis is a _good_ _thing_18:51
javispedrono. it's now an american company hobby project.18:51
Andy80no having ano official OS means that people is buying N900 now is simply wating 599€ in something that won't get any update in few months18:51
andresjavispedro: I am actually more concerned about what to target when...18:51
HukkaAndy80: And if they buy some other smartphone?18:51
Hukkajavispedro: Two companies.18:52
penguinbaitso will harmatten be scrapped or run on intel processor?18:52
florianX-Fade: Ok... I'll wait for a while and see if it gets picked up18:52
koivulaHukka, so then we can expect things like Qt bindings for Erlang!18:52
X-Fadeflorian: I already see it on the planet?18:52
HukkaAnd I'd say that a joint venture is something clearly more stable than just an R&D project18:52
HukkaTo back out would require probably a breach of contract18:52
Andy80Hukka: who bought Google G1 can upgrade it with latest Android someway... same thing for iPhone18:52
javispedropenguinbait: as I was saying, theoretically harmattan will come out as is -- just "meego compatible", whatever that means.18:52
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Andy80Hukka: if you buy a N900 now and they stop developing it... well... I would be very hungry18:53
HukkaAndy80: Except that with both you get limited new functionality18:53
HukkaAndy80: Get this, Qt4.6 is coming to N90018:53
penguinbaitmeego is a stupid name, I like moblin better18:53
HukkaAndy80: Uiemo demos are running on N90018:53
StskeepsHukka: DUI too, it seems like18:53
penguinbaitmeego sound like a cheap phone from tmobile18:53
HukkaAndy80: MeeGo, will be Qt. And more exactly Maemo flavour.18:53
florianX-Fade: oh indeed... then its just a strange effect that the feed listing in garage doesn't have it yet18:53
Andy80Hukka: this doesn't mean N900 will get harmattan at all :)18:53
javispedroI hope that MeeGo is just the geek name.18:53
HukkaAndy80: You. Will. Get. The. Apps.18:54
javispedrodoes intel really market "Moblin"?18:54
X-FadeDUI works fine on N900.18:54
oscillikanyone wanna buy an N900? :p18:54
* wazd got UI poisoning with Maemoitalia Tux Theme18:54
penguinbaitI'll give to 20$18:54
X-FadeNot really that strange as the Harmattan device will run OMAP3 too ;)18:54
javispedro5 cents.18:54
SpeedEvilI'll give one bananna.18:54
HukkaAndy80: If you don't get it, sell your phone. There are lot's of takers who are still on the queue18:54
oscillikdefinitely thinking of selling mine18:55
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Andy80Hukka: I'm not saying I don't like N900, I'm saying I find stupid if Nokia doesn't make harmattan available for N900 too18:55
wazdX-Fade: how long should I wait for Marina to be promoted to Extras? :)18:56
HukkaAndy80: For god's sake, they can't get the DRM work on N900, most likely. And you knew that it doesn't have DRM chips.18:56
X-Fadewazd: 10 days, like everybody else? :D18:56
HukkaAndy80: You'll be happy, if Nokia cancels Ovi Store and DRM from the next device, and you get the same app upgrades as you would get in any case?18:56
HukkaAs long as there won't be any progress, hw-wise?18:56
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koivulaI'd be happy with no-DRM devices <318:57
wazdX-Fade: well, I've already waited for 10 days actually :D18:57
koivulaI'd be happy with no-DRM at all.18:57
wazdX-Fade: Package is in testingSystem2010-02-05 01:45 UTC18:57
X-Fadewazd: Did you receive an unlock mail?18:57
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Andy80Hukka: for what is Ovi Store now, it could not exist :P it's only full of shit. Worst than apple store for iphone...18:57
wazdX-Fade: hmm18:57
HukkaAndy80: Don't switch the subject18:58
wazdX-Fade: let me check18:58
HukkaAndy80: You complained that you don't get Harmattan18:58
HukkaAndy80: I asked if you would be happy if Harmattan didn't include anything substantially new18:58
Andy80of course I wouldn't18:58
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HukkaAndy80: What do you actually want? You keep talking about Harmattan without saying _what_ in it you actually want18:58
alteregolizardo: ping - You gonna have uitools in as part of your rebuild?18:58
HukkaAndy80: It's clearly not the apps, since I've told you you'll get them, and you are not happy18:59
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Andy80Hukka: the problem is this: when harmattan will be out, they will simply stop developing Maemo5, that's the point18:59
uhsfi think you are all insane or brainwashed by needing always the latest smartphone thing, it's really stupid. i'm very happy with my n900 and maemo as it is and i couldn't care less if it stayed that way it's very usable and i could use it as it is for years without buying into the next sheep crowd hype19:00
HukkaAndy80: And what do you want for M5 that you don't have?19:00
HukkaAndy80: What is the problem, what are you missing?19:00
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Andy80Hukka: if I could imagine innovative ideas for a mobile OS I wouldn't be here chatting, I would work for Nokia :D19:00
koivulaHukka, portrait mode?19:01
oscillikHukka: IMAP IDLE19:01
Hukkakoivula: UI19:01
oscillikworking front facing camera19:01
Hukkaoscillik: Hell, I don't believe the email client will be usable in Harmattan, not by Nokia :)19:02
wazdAndy80: it's not that easy to work for nokia, beleive me :D19:02
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cpscottiwazd: useful info!19:02
oscillikHukka: doesn't really matter, i think i'm gonna make an eBay listing in a few hours anyways for my N90019:02
Andy80lot of things are missing in N900 as you can see...19:02
HukkaAnd the camera? Yeah, that needs to be fixed. But after it's been fixed (PR1.2, who knows?) there's not much to left for Harmattan19:03
Andy80front camera working, video calls, video support in skype, portrait mode ecc...19:03
uhsfthe fact that MeeGo website uses a big n900 on it's front page is such a cheap bastard asshole move19:03
cpscottithing is... nokia really is all about uncertainty regarding its high end smartphones... and we are in the middle of it19:03
Shapeshifterwth is it with portrait mode....19:03
rangeAndy80: Video support in Skype is a thing skype has to do, isn't it?19:03
koivulaI thought Nokia started to boost their Email-client development across the platforms when they started collecting passwords ;)19:03
Shapeshifterwhy do people want it19:03
sheepbatit's easier for one-handed use19:04
HukkaAndy80: Ok, now there's something concrete. You have a list of things that's not ok. If those get fixed before the next device, you'll be all sunshine?19:04
Shapeshiftersheepbat: what are you doing with the other hand?19:04
sheepbatand text is easier to read in portrait mode19:04
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Andy80oh... and we're still waiting for accelerated (using 3d chip) Flash plugin19:04
Shapeshiftersheepbat: text? why? it's less space per line19:04
Shapeshifteryou have to be linejump more19:04
HukkaAndy80: That's hardly something Nokia can influence19:04
wazdAndy80: ask adobe for it19:04
sheepbatlong lines are bad for readability19:04
rangeAnd it's smaller.19:04
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HukkaAdobe either gets it done or not19:04
Shapeshiftersheepbat: they aren't "long" exactly19:04
rangeI really can't read things when the browser is in portrait mode.19:04
Shapeshiftersheepbat: on your normal computer, you don't complain that the lines are 30cm wide19:05
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sheepbatactually, I keep all my windows smaller19:05
Andy80Hukka: Skype hasn't developed the client for N900 by their own idea :D Nokia paied them to do it :P19:05
Andy80Hukka: and so Nokia decides19:05
sheepbatand have a key shortcut specifically to make the windows themselves basically portrait19:05
sheepbatthis IRC window, for instance, is less than half my screen width19:06
wazdAndy80: you really have details of that agreement?19:06
HukkaAndy80: You really think that not having flash 10.1 is because Nokia didn't pay for it yet?19:06
HukkaYeah, right...19:06
Jophish_n900speaking of the browser being in portrait mode. Is there any way in which to get a toolbar in a portrait browser? to close the window, or view history?19:06
HukkaI think I'll calmly step right over there, a bit farther away...19:06
javispedroHukka: you don't think money fixes everything??? crazy!19:07
Andy80Hukka: it's just my hopinion... I'm not free to expose a my idea?19:07
Hukkajavispedro: Nothing fixes flash :)19:07
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HukkaNor maybe windows19:07
Hukka(Duck & cover :)19:07
* timeless_mbp ponders19:08
timeless_mbpi sent a patch to xerces co apache.org19:08
timeless_mbpthey took it in <5 days (including a weekend)19:08
timeless_mbpi sent a patch to nokia care of symbian.org19:08
HukkaAndy80: Flash 10.1 is a _bit_ larger than N90019:08
timeless_mbpthey said it'll take them months before they can consider it19:08
Andy80Hukka: what do you mean with "larger" ?19:08
Shapeshifterflash needs to die out19:08
Shapeshifterstop caring about it19:08
w00ttimeless_mbp: did they say why?19:09
javispedroflash is one of the sellpoints of the n900019:09
slonopotamuswhy we don't have fremantle booting from sd yet? smth like, copy rootfs to 2gb card and pivot_root there early in boot process.19:09
timeless_mbpw00t: yes19:09
timeless_mbpthey have a huge fork between Symbian^3 and Symbian^419:09
HukkaAndy80: It's not on N900 because they are lazy. It's not anywhere at all, so far.19:09
timeless_mbpand can't juggle stuff because of it19:09
w00ttimeless_mbp: oh joy of joys19:09
timeless_mbpexternally they're using mercurial19:09
HukkaAnd the whole point of 10.1 is the hw acceleration, which is a huge selling point in every arch.19:09
timeless_mbpi'm fairly certain i don't want to know what they're using internally19:09
w00ttimeless_mbp: CVS!19:09
Shapeshifterjavispedro: the usual "give customers what they want even if they dont need it and even if its utter crap" metality.19:09
w00tRCS! :P19:10
Shapeshifterrather make html5 working in microb.19:10
vmlemon_Weren't Nokia using Perforce still?19:10
HukkaN900 is a blip in Adobe's radar. A nice demo gadget, maybe, but nothing like a noticable user base19:10
w00ttimeless_mbp: actually, better still: cp foo.c foo.bak19:10
marienz"CVS: Conceivably Versions Something"19:10
timeless_mbpvmlemon_: i really have no idea19:10
HukkaAndy80: While with skype, they already had everything they needed. Only matter of porting to N90019:10
timeless_mbpmarienz: hey, it's better than svn19:10
* timeless_mbp hates svn19:10
Andy80Hukka: I didn't announce "N900 will be one of the first devices to have Flash 10.1" THEY did :)19:10
* marienz pets svn19:10
timeless_mbpi still have a broken svn netcat of kde.org19:10
timeless_mbpwhich i can't rsync19:10
zapIs there any way to get a notification when device gets locked/unlocked?19:10
timeless_mbpbecause it dies in the process19:11
timeless_mbpmarienz: wanna help me try to figure that one out?19:11
HukkaAndy80: And have you seen it on other devices? No. You think Nokia funds the whole R&D?19:11
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marienztimeless_mbp: err, I'd rather not, sorry19:11
timeless_mbpmarienz: would rsync "foo:/x/x/x/x/x/x/x/1*" .19:11
timeless_mbpdo something useful?19:11
javispedroHukka: I'm pretty sure Nokia "ported" Skype (Skype ships a binary library, Nokia made the telepathy plugin)19:11
timeless_mbpthe directory i'm trying to rsync has way too many files19:11
HukkaThis has nothing to with Harmattan nor Meego anymore. This is just about finding points to whine and gripe. I don't even care about flash, I disabled it within a week I got N90019:12
w00tjavispedro: at least, skype said that they worked on it together19:12
marienztimeless_mbp: what, you're making rsync blow up by transferring too much through it? I didn't know that was possible19:12
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timeless_mbpmarienz: hold on19:12
Andy80Hukka: you disabled because you don't use youtube maybe... but I use it19:13
timeless_mbpFilesystem                                 Size   Used  Avail Capacity  Mounted on19:13
Andy80and lot of people do19:13
timeless_mbprpool/export/home/timeless/devel/   61Gi  9.8Gi   51Gi    17%    /Users/timeless/devel/kde.org19:13
threshit is possible if you have slow network between your files and rsync timeouts in reading / waiting for other side to read the directory19:13
threshthis is configurable, of course19:13
threshand 61G is nothing19:13
threshwell, if you have 61 billion files, it might be bad19:14
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timeless_mbpthresh: the 61gb is a junk number19:14
timeless_mbpsize = used + avail19:14
marienzthresh: notice 61G is just the filesystem size. 9.8Gi used is less than nothing.19:14
* timeless_mbp frowns19:14
threshahd[B[Bah right19:14
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timeless_mbprpool/export/home/timeless/devel/  referenced     9.82G                          -19:14
timeless_mbprpool/export/home/timeless/devel/  compressratio  1.24x                          -19:14
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timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure the repo is supposed to be 60gb19:15
marienzstill, pretty sure folks are routinely mirroring several GB through rsync19:15
* timeless_mbp wonders what happened to the rest of it19:15
timeless_mbpmarienz: they don't have nokia proxies :)19:15
timeless_mbpor whatever crazy routing i'm using19:15
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lizardoalterego: there is no "uitools" module in Qt for Maemo 5 :(   I existed in ther early times, but was dropped (I don't remember why)  to see that , try running :  "apt-cache search uitools"19:16
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Andy80lizardo: you always remember me this bad thing :P19:17
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Andy80lizardo: it's clear they want to promote DUI only19:18
lizardoAndy80: yes, and now with the final release, it's written on stone :(19:18
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alteregolizardo: is there no way to load .ui files then? :(19:20
threshwhat's that DUI?19:20
threshthat is in extras-devel19:20
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lizardoalterego: Andy80 might know better as he tried that some time ago :)19:20
Hukkathresh: gitorius19:20
Andy80lizardo: yes, I tried and I simply decided to stop writing the GUI until something decent is made public :P I really don't want to become crazy "designing" a UI with vbox/hbox coding style :P19:21
timeless_mbptimeless-mbp-2:revs timeless$ ls |wc -l19:22
timeless_mbp  24340919:22
wazdX-Fade: no, haven't received any emails19:22
alteregolizardo: well, apparently qt creator support will be added to MADDE for PR1.2, so I'd presume that means they're going to reimplement it ...19:22
lizardoalterego: sorry, but don't know much of .ui files to know that ... Better ask someone who actually tried it ... I'm only saying is : there is no QtUiTools module in Maemo 5, so PySide can't support it19:22
timeless_mbpi think the problem is that it dies trying to scan that19:22
timeless_mbpoh, duh19:22
X-Fadethresh: Maem 6 UI framework19:22
timeless_mbpsorry, this is the wrong computer19:22
threshtimeless_mbp: that's nothing for rsync19:22
timeless_mbpthe real repo is 60gb19:22
Andy80I wrote a draft of a UI and after 1 month I really don't know how to touch the code to modify it :P19:22
timeless_mbpthis is my failed attempt at an rsync, which died at 10gb :)19:22
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alteregoAndy80: right, same position I'm in then :P19:23
X-Fadewazd: Then the limit isn't reached yet or so.19:23
wazdX-Fade: aaah19:23
Andy80I know that Beethoven composed music even without being able to hear it... but we're not all Beethoven :D19:23
wazdX-Fade: found it in spam :P19:23
threshtimeless_mbp: what are the options of your rsync command line?19:23
X-Fadewazd: lol19:23
timeless_mbpthresh: how much time do you have available?19:23
lizardoalterego: You can transform your question in a general one and ask it on the Qt interest  mailing list (or on #qt)  : e.g. "Can I load .ui files on Qt for Maemo5"19:23
timeless_mbpi'd like to do something else now before i vpn in and check the right computer19:24
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threshtimeless_mbp: i plan to go asleep in 3 hours19:24
timeless_mbpok, let's talk in an hour?19:24
alteregolizardo: I'd rather write my own Python pure XML interpreter for .ui files :P19:24
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timeless_mbpanyway, i think that roughly there are a million files in the directory19:24
w00tas far as I understand it (wrt .ui files), the tool for compiling them isn't built on maemo19:24
w00tbut can be built manually19:25
timeless_mbpthresh: is there a way to do "1?????" ?19:25
timeless_mbp(msdos notation)19:25
lizardoalterego: just asking is easier ;)19:25
w00tI may be utterly wrong, I'm not having a good day, just repeating what I seem to remember from #qt-maemo19:25
threshtimeless_mbp: you mean where?19:25
alteregow00t: compiling? I thought they were interpreter at run time?19:25
timeless_mbpthresh: as the specifier to tell rsync what to sync19:25
threshtimeless_mbp: yeah, use --exclude and --include19:25
w00talterego: bah, let me go find logs so I can be sure of what I'm talking about19:25
aziwoqpdi've compiled .ui files in scratchbox19:25
Andy80lizardo: the lastest announce about QtQuick looks quite clear about what they want to do about UI designing...19:26
alteregow00t: don't bother I think I've found it :P19:26
lizardoAndy80: link?19:26
Andy80lizardo: sometimes you really surprise me, really :D19:26
lizardoAndy80: on Qt land , I monitor the qt labs blogs and that's it :)19:27
alteregow00t: I think it would involve me writing wrappers for my compiled UI widgets unfortunately.19:27
lizardoAndy80: never hear of "QtQuick"  , really :)19:27
alteregoAnd, tbh, that is not where code needs to be optimmized ^.^19:27
Andy80lizardo: wait I go to find the link again...19:27
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w00t <--- alterego19:29
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thresh\o/ working sharing plugin for yandex fotki19:31
lizardoAndy80: I never understood why they have two separate blog sytes :)19:31
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Andy80lizardo: the thing that really surprise me is that is not the first time you (and your team) are not aware about something Nokia s working to :\ just like Python was (maybe it is) a secondary objective19:32
Andy80lizardo: take this as my personal hopinion too :P19:32
lizardoAndy80: oh Qt Quick == Declarative UI, I knew about it, just didn't know the "cute" name :)19:33
Andy80lizardo: this sounds better to me :)19:33
lizardoAndy80: we are not nokia...19:33
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alteregow00t: you're a genius :)19:35
* alterego thinks should have an AdHoc karma facility so he can donate some karma to w00t :)19:35
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w00talterego: or just cursed with a far too good memory :p19:36
alteregoAndy80: git clone git:// - check that out, command line tool to turn .ui files into .py files :)19:37
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alteregoThat should really be on the wiki some where.19:37
Andy80alterego: don't know how_much/if that tool is updated... maybe lizardo can tell us something more. By the way, I don't think it supports "all" the Maemo related UI. It's useless to design a UI with QtDesigner if you see it how it looks like on a desktop PC. Maemo UI is quite different: checkboxes, scroll boxes, ecc.... all is different19:39
alteregoAndy80: agreed, but it's something I can build on.19:39
wazdX-Fade: so, I've promoted the package, that's it? :)19:40
X-Fadewazd: Do I need to make it harder?19:40
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wazdX-Fade: yep :D19:41
lizardoAndy80 , alterego , w00t : what I can say is that pyside-tools has not received many updates lately ... As I said I know nearly nothing about .ui files , but I ask if you can try it on current Maemo and report issues it would be really nice :)19:41
lizardothere is a "pyside-tools" package on extras-devel19:41
alteregolizardo: awesome, thanks.19:42
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lizardoand report on #pyside (or on PySide bugzilla ) any problems you have using it on Maemo19:43
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lizardoAndy80: if I understood correctly, the QtQuick think was only announced today, right ?19:44
Andy80lizardo: to the "big public" yes, but it's basically the DUI stuff, nothing more, nothing less19:45
lizardoAndy80: do you know "Declarative UI"  is not the same as "DUI" , right ?19:46
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lizardoAndy80: actually one has nothing to do with the other , AFAIK19:46
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timeless_mbptimeless-mbp-2:mw timeless$ rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at /SourceCache/rsync/rsync-35.2/rsync/main.c(992) [sender=2.6.9]19:47
* timeless_mbp cries19:47
timeless_mbpwhat does that mean?19:47
timeless_mbpdoes that mean it "finished"?19:47
lizardoAndy80: declarative UI (the technology employed on QtQuick)  is  new way do design UIs , which AFAIK is based on QGraphicsView19:47
FIQi think i've d/c-ed 5 times since i joined19:48
FIQhm, no19:48
FIQ10 times on this network19:48
FIQi joined 30mins ago19:48
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uhsfwindows phone 7 looks very crappy19:50
waowhich one doesn't?19:50
lizardoAndy80: DUI (if are referring to things like   come from "DirectUI"19:50
waouhsf: did you see android 2.1 from world mobile congress in barcelona?19:51
Andy80lizardo: sorry I was playing with maemo6 widgets available in extras-devel :D19:51
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Shapeshiftermhh, there's no way of putting contacts into subgroups, or of deleting contacts from the phone but not from the respecitve IM server (e.g. ICQ) right?19:52
uhsfeverybody in comments compare how locked windows is compared to iphone and android. everybody is so ignorant. maemo i millions times more open than any of these. it's the only device that allows me to do what I really want. n900 is the very ONLY device.19:52
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uhsfwao: i didn't. how is it?19:53
* javispedro mistypes meego as meebo again19:53
waouhsf: looks fine, check
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waoat huawei u811019:53
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penguinbaitme ego is large19:54
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KamuiN900maemo and moblin?19:57
HukkaDon't you start over here19:57
KamuiN900say it aint so19:57
HukkaYou are late?19:57
HukkaDo you have logs?19:57
Hukka(I'm ignoring parts and joins)19:57
KamuiN900just read the news when catching up on rss19:57
sheepbathe just joined, hukka19:57
HukkaWant logs :?19:57
HukkaThere's plenty19:58
uhsfwhat distro is moblin based on?19:58
KamuiN900how about a 2 sentence summary19:58
Hukkauhsf: Moblin19:58
oscilliktwo sentence: Kiss N900. Goodbye19:58
KamuiN900like n900 unaffected, maemo community generally pissed19:58
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uhsfi wonder how they will merge debian based with moblin19:58
HukkaKamuiN900: Harmattan is not Meego, but meego-compatible. Source will come in few weeks, then we know what's what.19:58
simula_awaywhat packaging system?19:59
uhsfcount me in as pissed19:59
HukkaKamuiN900: maemo-community is always pissed19:59
HukkaIn general19:59
davyghello when i try to film something with the n900 camera, i got an error "Echec de l'opération" (don't really know how to translate it, maybe ; operation fail), does someone has this problem a solution ?19:59
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Hukkasimula_away: Read the faq19:59
Mouseyproof intel feels like they can't compete19:59
lcukthats not proof19:59
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KamuiN900davyg:  camera cant be used while audio is in use19:59
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KamuiN900for some reason19:59
davygstrange but ok and what coold use sound without asking me(i don't listen anything) ?20:00
Mouseylcuk: fine, but it sure -seems- like it ^_^20:01
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Shapeshiftercan someone recommend an mpd client other than this huuge cutempc that I see in the apt manager, which is non-CLI (i.e. not ncmpcpp or the like)20:05
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Shapeshifterone that works nicely on the small screen.20:05
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* Mousey pokes destinal-home 20:07
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destinal-homeMousey: :)20:13
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jorma /join #meego20:19
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jormagod i hate the move from apt/debian to moblin's rpm/fedora20:21
johnsu01I couldn't be sadder about the whole thing :(20:21
petterii think intel devs are only ones happy with that change :/20:22
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johnsu01discouraging use of the GPL? Whatever.20:22
johnsu01Shapeshifter: mmpc20:23
luke-jrjohnsu01: encouraging GPLv2, from their site20:24
* simula_ just bought "The Debian System" yesterday :P hehe20:25
johnsu01luke-jr: not for the "user experience" -- they are pushing BSD licensing20:27
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Shapeshifterjohnsu01: thanks20:27
johnsu01how they think this policy is inline with distributions' licensing policy -- where everything is predominantly GPL and these days GPLv3, is beyond me20:28
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johnsu01as is how they think having a GPL system supports proprietary plugins20:28
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uhsfopen source or not, symbian s^3 really has nothing on maemo20:29
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uhsfit's really the linux mobile day today, i wasn't expecting thiss20:29
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tadthebuilderis there any chance that since meego will be more fully open source then maemo that it might be more easily back ported to the n800 or n810?20:30
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davygis there a command to know which apply use the sound system on maemo ?20:31
Stskeepstadthebuilder: unsure, let's see the code first.20:31
tadthebuilderah true I guess that is important haha20:31
tadthebuilderi just want more life for my n800...20:31
johnsu01tadthebuilder: personally I don't think there's any reason to believe this will be any more free than maemo20:31
luke-jrtadthebuilder: N8x0 would require open source hardware support first20:32
tadthebuilderah true20:32
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tadthebuilderit will most likely be more open source since the linux foundation is having a hand in it correct20:32
johnsu01tadthebuilder: the current proprietary components on the n900 etc would just be justified as "proprietary extensions"20:32
wiretappedanyone here used confml on maemo?20:32
tadthebuilderah, as in not considered the OS but things that run on top of it?20:32
uhsfi really don't understand people complaining. personnally, i would be happy to use maemo as it is now on my n900 for years20:32
wiretappedgoogle indicates it existed once20:32
luke-jrtadthebuilder: "Linux Foundation" has what real relevance exactly?20:33
tadthebuilderI was assuming they would have a stronger stance of free software than nokia or intel20:33
tadthebuilderuhsf: I think the main problem would be the fact that people would stop making software for it thus you would have less programs to work with20:34
uhsfthe main purpose for my n900 is being a phone. and it couldn't do this any better.20:35
tadthebuilderif you wanted a phone20:36
tadthebuilderwhy did you pay 500 dollars?20:36
uhsfi have a real micropc for my computing needs20:36
tadthebuilderyou can get a phone that makes call for like 1520:36
tadthebuilderso thats what you wanted20:36
uhsfi chose the n900 because i'm a real linux fan20:36
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uhsfand i don't regret it one bit20:36
kynkythought main purpose of n900 was a mid ?20:36
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sheepbatyes, I consider it a mid too...20:37
sobczykcan the n900 connect to internet through usb (not the other way around) :)20:37
uhsfof course i will use it as it's full capabilities20:37
kynkyn900 can do anything :)20:37
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uhsfssh, etc20:37
valdynsobczyk: if ovi suite worked20:37
wiretappedsobczyk: sure, though it isnt supported20:37
wiretappedgoogle usbnet20:37
sobczykI have linux no internet data of wifi and want to do update20:37
uhsfbut that's just a big plus. maybe my expectations were lower after owning a neo freerunner20:38
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uhsfthe news i'm most disappointed in today is buglabs supporting android. they really should have chosen maemo20:39
luke-jruhsf: chosen Maemo how?20:40
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luke-jruhsf: Maemo is not licensed to third-parties AFAIK20:40
javispedroalso, maemo no longer exists.20:40
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* oscillik checks his N90020:41
oscillikMaemo exists!20:42
oscilliki have seen it!20:42
prontoi've seen it as well o=20:42
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sobczykdo I void my warrant by rooting n900?20:44
microlithsobczyk: no20:44
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GeneralAntillesHrm, interesting.20:46
GeneralAntillesI guess Joiku is publishing to Extras?20:46
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|R <- any news on SIP URI Dialing solutions?20:46
povbot`Bug 4929: Direct (no proxy or registrar) SIP URI dialing20:46
luke-jrsobczyk: you can't void warranties by rooting devices, at least in the US20:46
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TheOnehi @all20:48
TheOnei read that maemo and moblin get together20:48
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TheOnedoes anyone know wether MeeGoo will run with the nokia n900 ?20:49
villemvTheOne: they are partying at #meego20:49
timeless_mbp|R: so um20:49
* simula_ chuckles20:49
timeless_mbpit would seem that if you want that to work20:49
timeless_mbpyou'll have to write a sip account provider20:50
timeless_mbpat least, i don't see why a framework should 'magically' do this for you20:50
timeless_mbpit's a layering violation20:50
TheOneohh okay, i doent recognize that they have an extra channel, thx i will ask there ;)20:50
timeless_mbp|R: telepathy is open source and pluggable20:50
timeless_mbpwrite a demo20:50
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timeless_mbpif you can make it compelling and easy to deal with, maybe we can get it integrated20:50
timeless_mbpworst case, people can install it20:50
|Rtimeless_mbp: well, it should just allow me to write user@sipprovider.com20:51
|Rthat's what a SIP phone is (in part) for :)20:51
|Rbut yes i can setup aliases on an asterisk box...20:51
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timeless_mbp|R: framework based software doesn't work that way20:51
|Rthat just sucks to centralize a decentralized solution20:51
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uhsfi'm happy to have chosen maemo before the meego announcement because i'm now part of the true pionneers of the origins of the first and biggest free software movement for mobile devices20:52
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b0unc3guys, someone know how to "translate" the Name field in the .desktop file ? ( e.g. Name=sket_ap_sketch_title )20:54
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SplasPood|R: I assume if you do have a SIP account configured URI dialing works fine (assuming your provider handles?)20:58
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valdynb0unc3: Name[fi]="foo"21:02
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|RSplasPood: well, from a software client on a linux box yes21:03
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SplasPood|R: no, i mean from the N900 when you have a sip account configured/enabled, does it then work21:03
|RSplasPood: ekiga -> asterisk sip user or some such...21:04
|RSplasPood: well i don't think you can enter as a telephone number21:04
|Rthat's the only problem21:04
SplasPoodHrm, interesting.. yet it still says No sip accounts avail?21:04
|Ror maybe i'm lost... let me try again :P21:04
SplasPoodWhich, to me at least, implies it at least KNOWS it should be using sip21:05
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|Rso, no it only allows numbers, +, #, and such21:05
|Roh wait21:05
|Rnevermind, i just made a fool of myself21:06
|Rif i select sip (not in cell mode) then i can type letters21:06
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|Rbig oopsie ;)21:06
SplasPoodahh, yea it's a bit confusing in that regard21:06
|Rwell, I'm a happy camper then, just waiting for Bug 6936 and it'll be perfect :P21:07
povbot`Bug Caller voice gets minced after some time when taking call via SIP21:07
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|Rbut i guess you still need a connected SIP account21:07
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MohammadAGskype doesn't seem to be working for me21:10
MohammadAGkeeps saying authentication failed21:10
zashMohammadAG: that would be the default state ;)21:10
MohammadAGreadding the account says wrong username and pass21:10
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MohammadAGlol zash21:10
MohammadAGi need skype21:10
MohammadAGfor call out (and to abuse its US number)21:11
timeless_mbpb0unc3: you can add a domain field21:12
timeless_mbpwhich is how nokia does it21:12
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MohammadAG(anyone else having my problem?)21:12
timeless_mbpb0unc3: X-Text-Domain=21:13
timeless_mbpthat's used in conjunction with Name= to resolve Name's identifier to a localized string21:13
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timeless_mbpvaldyn: please don't recommend Name[..]21:14
timeless_mbpit doesn't scale21:14
timeless_mbpit means that if someone later wants to add Chinese or whatever, they can't21:14
pupnik_Evidence now available from various sources, including recently declassified U.S. State Department documents, shows that the Taliban regime led by Mullah Mohammad Omar imposed strict isolation on Osama bin Laden after 1998 to prevent him from carrying out any plots against the United States.21:14
timeless_mbp|R: yeah, sip address dialing works, i've used it21:14
|Rtimeless_mbp: my bad, but the account requirement is still a (much more minor) problem... :)21:15
RST38hpupnik: That has been known before21:15
b0unc3timeless_mbp,  so I can use gettext to let my software translate it , right ?21:15
timeless_mbp|R: as i said, write an account provider21:15
pupnik_anyone here done this?21:15
timeless_mbpb0unc3: well err21:15
pupnik_RST38h: i need a pastebuffer previewer21:15
MohammadAGpupnik_, yeah21:16
timeless_mbpyou can use a .po file to generate a .mo file21:16
RST38hpupnik: Basically they could not get rid of him, as it was against all the muslim hospitality rules21:16
timeless_mbpand hildon will use that to show the appropriate translated string21:16
pupnik_did sixpair work for you MohammadAG ?21:16
RST38hpupnik: So they did the next possible thing, i.e. isolated him21:16
wiretappedwhoa... did maemo die today?21:16
RST38hpupnik: Not that it worked on Americans, bent on bombing some ass "for the country"21:16
* pupnik_ is sorry for pastefail :(21:17
b0unc3timeless_mbp, my only problem is to translate the Name field on the .desktop file... not how to create it...21:17
MohammadAGoh did it on windows21:17
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timeless_mbpb0unc3: sorry, confused21:17
MohammadAGwas away somewhere, and linux wasn't installed on the pc i used21:17
timeless_mbpyou write:21:17
MohammadAGbut yeah it should work pupnik21:17
RST38hpupnik: It is actually funny, because most of these "news" have been known when the war just started, but ignored then =(21:17
|Rtimeless_mbp: wish i knew how / could :)21:17
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MohammadAGpupnik_, *21:17
timeless_mbpthen you write my_ap_name.po with21:18
timeless_mbpmsgid "my_ap_name_identifier"21:18
timeless_mbpmsgstr "I suck"21:18
timeless_mbpthen you use msgfmt to compile my_ap_name.po into my_ap_name.mo21:18
timeless_mbpthen you drop into the appropriate /usr/share/locale/$LANG/LC_MESSAGES21:18
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* timeless_mbp tries to understand where the complicated step is21:19
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pupnik_can i edit /usr/share/applications/hildon/osso-xterm.desktop to start a *new* terminal instance?21:21
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timeless_mbppupnik: iirc there's a way to do what you want, yes21:22
b0unc3timeless_mbp,  you didn't understand my question (probably for my bad english), btw I understood  how I can solve my problem... thanks anyway ;)21:22
* pupnik_ tries to think real hard21:22
timeless_mbpb0unc3: your question didn't make any sense21:23
timeless_mbpgettext is a program which is used to extract localizable strings from a source file21:23
timeless_mbp.desktop files are not typically considered source files21:23
timeless_mbpso you can't use gettext21:23
timeless_mbphowever, gettext is the underlying technology used by hildon-desktop to convert your Name + X-Text-Domain into a localized string21:24
keesjbeceaus that's how open source commuinities work21:24
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etammei put some flac files on my n900 and i can not get the media player to detect them.... i installed ogg support, and extra codec support21:24
etammebut... they just dont show21:24
etammeif i go to file browser, i can click on them and they play21:25
etammebut the media player just doesnt "see" them21:25
etammeany ideas?21:25
valdynetamme: proper support is in extras-devel iirc21:25
lardmanhi keesj21:25
etammevaldyn, is this all b/c of the tags?21:25
lardmaninteresting to see the it's not using .deb tantrums21:25
valdynetamme: I have no idea, works for me however21:26
keesjthe mer people worked on the suse build servers *rpm* based stuff21:26
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b0unc3timeless_mbp, I try to explain : I have an app that read all the .desktop and return the Name field. Now I would that when the name is e.g. Name=sket_ap_sketch_title it  automatically translate it, understand now ?21:26
keesjpackaging is just to complicated anyway :p21:26
etammevaldyn what did you install to get it to work?21:26
wiretappedRIP hildon?21:26
timeless_mbpb0unc3: there's a gettext function where you can provide the domain21:27
timeless_mbpyou'd use that and pass the value from X-Text-Domain21:27
valdynetamme: i believe its the new ogg support package21:27
etammevaldyn, ok21:27
timeless_mbpand yes, that's almost understandable21:27
valdynetamme: what was the name? you can look at the changelog from the n900 gui package manager21:27
b0unc3timeless_mbp, ok, thanks for your help ;)21:27
timeless_mbpb0unc3: your original question was parsed by everyone as "i want to write a localizable .desktop file, how do i do it?"21:28
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etammemy device always locks up for a while installing codedc related stuff... then i pretty much have to reboot it for the media player to work at all21:28
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timeless_mbpbecause when people normally say "how do i translate" they mean "I want to write an app with support for translations"21:28
b0unc3timeless_mbp, I'm sorry for my bad english :(21:28
timeless_mbpb0unc3: don't be sorry. learn.21:28
b0unc3timeless_mbp, sure21:28
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timeless_mbpyou shouldn't have used 'translate' in your question21:29
timeless_mbpbecause you aren't translating, you're converting and displaying *using* the existing translations21:29
timeless_mbphad you used those magic words, you would have gotten the answer you sought21:29
timeless_mbpmake sense?21:29
b0unc3timeless_mbp, yes21:30
timeless_mbpgood :)21:30
lardmanhmm, not so impressed with KDE, all the fonts are too small21:30
valdynlardman: thats configurable21:30
timeless_mbplardman: Maemo historically has not provided correct DPI info for X1121:30
lardmanvaldyn: yeah, but seems to vary between apps too21:30
lardmantimeless_mbp: desktop actually21:31
timeless_mbplardman: oh, heh21:31
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valdynlardman: that should not be the case21:31
aSIMULAtorhi timeless21:31
etammevaldyn, nice - works now thanks21:31
timeless_mbpfollowing the news?21:31
guysoft42bloody paper - I sent them that Limo is not Mobolin, they changed it, and censored my comment!21:31
lardmanvaldyn: perhaps the apps just need a restart, will test21:31
timeless_mbpguysoft42: revisionist history :)21:32
* timeless_mbp approves21:32
aSIMULAtorwell, in the long run it's good news21:32
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timeless_mbpyour comment wouldn't have made sense after they fixed the article21:32
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guysoft42timeless, yes, but it means i wrote the data in the article, not their stupid reporter21:32
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timeless_mbpguysoft42: i'd bet their editor keeps score and the reporter will suffer if the score gets too out of whack21:33
timeless_mbpdon't sweat it21:33
StskeepsaSIMULAtor: i wonder if the debianites in maemo are throwing chairs yet21:33
GeneralAntillesI feel like this merger should be something to motivate both communities.21:33
* GeneralAntilles mostly feels like he's been punched in the stomach.21:33
guysoft42timeless_mbp, i dont think so21:33
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it felt like that for a while for me too but it got better21:33
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aSIMULAtoryeah when i read the articles about it, have to admit, that was the same reaction21:34
ArifI charged the N900 24 hours ago and the battery only went down 1 bar21:34
* simula_ 's feeling better too21:34
aSIMULAtoroh HAI!21:34
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, there's a lot of emotional stuff tied up in a community like this.21:34
aSIMULAtoroh there's another simulator21:34
aSIMULAtorin here21:34
RST38hthey breed!21:34
timeless_mbpaSIMULAtor: yeah, that one's confusing21:34
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: of course, and i had Mer included in it too, and well, my job, too21:34
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, having somebody come in and invalidate most of that isn't  a good way to go about it.21:34
simula_nah, i'm simula... like simula6721:34
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aSIMULAtori guessed that... :P21:35
timeless_mbpah, persistence pays off21:35
simula_heh :)21:35
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, it's going to be a problem with Moblin having such a small community and MeeGo having only technical direction.21:35
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lardmandoes video calling work with Skype on the N900?21:35
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i think it's where we fit in.21:36
GeneralAntilleslardman, rumor says PR1.2.21:36
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it's a land rush :P21:36
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: ah, so best not hope to have a video call with my parents atm then21:36
* lardman fires up the laptop which should at least work21:36
lardmanGeneralAntilles: thanks btw21:37
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asj_so what's new overnight folks?21:40
Stskeepsoh boy, where do we startt21:40
Stskeepsasj_: http://www.meego.com21:40
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asj_yeah that mess broke just befor eI went to bed21:41
Arifso we have Maemo 6 and meego?21:41
GeneralAntillesAre we really going to be building our future community on DRUPAL?. . ..21:41
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well, drupal or midgard21:41
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Stskeepschoose your poison21:41
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asj_the more places Qt goes the better for me, I just can't stomach going from debs to rpm <puke>21:42
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, Midgard. . . .21:42
javispedrothe devil you know...21:43
Stskeepszerojay: the plus side is that things seem to start out as a public bugtracker :P21:43
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* javispedro is on #meebo just counting number of people who mistype it21:44
woglindeseems maemo is going to rpm21:44
woglindethan I will say goodbye21:44
MiXu-meebo is that IM service21:44
javispedroMiXu-: yep, which I typed nearly a billion of times before getting my tablet, so ... muscle memory.21:44
GeneralAntilleswoglinde, we've still got, like, 2 years.21:45
GeneralAntilleswoglinde, Maemo community is big with lots of clout.21:45
GeneralAntilleswoglinde, we'll just steamroll them back.21:45
woglindeI dont think mobilin will switch back21:45
woglindeor maybee they will21:45
woglindeafter seeing the rpm mess21:45
wiretappedGeneralAntilles: i really hope you're right :)21:45
* GeneralAntilles feels a bit steamrolled today.21:45
wiretappedbut I don't think so :(21:45
javispedrowoglinde: they won't switch. they're talking about improving RPM though.21:45
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woglindejavis did you ever try to get kernel-src.rpm21:46
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, that's what they say today after living in their own little world for so long.21:46
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: in other news, the Maemo 6 UI framework is in extras-devel.21:46
woglindeand build kernels out of it21:46
woglindethats hell21:46
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javispedrowoglinde: nope.21:46
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javispedrobut my personal opinion is that I'm so tired of the entire packaging wars that I would gladly accept ANY standard, even if it's as ugly as opensolaris packaging.21:46
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, clearly you need to pick up a battle axe and unify them, then. :P21:47
RST38hjavispedro: FreeBSD packaging!21:47
* RST38h hides21:47
* GeneralAntilles is already exhausted.21:47
RST38hStskeeps: orly? are there any demos already?21:48
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javispedroRST38h: comes with a few21:48
StskeepsRST38h: widgets-gallery i think21:48
* RST38h goes to check21:48
javispedroI didn't read source code yet though21:48
javispedrobut It was on free21:48
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RST38hSorry to act stupid, but are there screenshots?21:48
GeneralAntillesRST38h, there's a YouTube video on Planet.21:49
GeneralAntilleslol, Comcast is rebranding too.21:49
GeneralAntillesThe world is ending today.21:49
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: eh??21:49
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* GeneralAntilles should just go back to bed.21:50
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javispedroit's Xfinitikitastic!21:50
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wiretappedGeneralAntilles: xfinity is days old news21:51
woglindegood nite ga21:51
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GeneralAntilleswiretapped, guess I missed it.21:51
wiretappedi would just like to say fucking fuck fuck fuck rpm21:51
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GeneralAntillesYeah. :\21:51
woglindehm seems to braindead to bring now out a android phone with version 1.621:51
* GeneralAntilles doesn't think Moblin should be dictating that stuff to the larger community.21:52
* GeneralAntilles is still in favor of steamrolling. :P21:52
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wiretappedOTOH, (yes)21:52
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* evilrob just ordered his N90021:52
wiretappedAs it can be read in many places Maemo is based on Debian. The problem arrives when someone asks ?which version of Debian???21:53
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wiretappedThe answer is ?oldstable? (etch) + parts from ?stable? (lenny) + some updates from ?testing? (squeeze).21:53
wiretappedI can kind of imagine it wasn't too hard for intel to argue against that mess21:53
wiretappedbut what is moblin based on?21:53
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MiXu-does it actually matter?21:53
javispedroparts of fedora and opensuse.21:53
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javispedrolike maemo, it seems to have evolved into its own distro.21:54
MiXu-So what maemo is based on, doesn't really make a difference21:54
javispedroTo say it doesn't is ... lying a bit.21:54
woglindeonly postive point on moblin is that they are shipping images now with iegd integrated21:54
javispedroIt does, specially from a developer perspective.21:54
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keesjthe distro?21:55
javispedroI guess it doesn't matter to the developers Nokia loves (those who can use Madde for their projects, for example).21:55
keesjbecause as internal developer for the platorm you need to deliver something special?21:56
pupnik_i'd like things to go to their own /opt directory by default, with just a symlink to /usr/bin for the .exe21:56
pupnik_when building in sdk21:56
keesjI tend to care about the developers who use a platform for them it really should not matter the simpler the better21:57
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evilrobpupnik_: that's generally referred to in the unix world as a depot.21:57
evilrobthere are depot management tools out there.21:57
gjlIs it possible to alter the playback speed of media played using the kmplayer maemo port?21:57
wolf^pupnik, that's one macro redefinition in rpm :>21:57
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evilrobyou'd see something like a package installed to /opt/depot/<packagename>21:57
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gjlbeing able to listen to podcasts at high speed would be great21:58
pupnik_it's a bit fiddly right now.21:58
javispedrokeesj:  for example, it determines the path of config files, packaging policies and tools, etc.21:58
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javispedroit seems to be getting easier now that for example both share upstart-style init files.21:58
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keesjthat's all linux standard based not distro stuff(besides the packaging ...)21:59
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javispedronot really. lsb still mandates init.d scripts..21:59
javispedroand debian has this tradition of modifying every app to its own standards (count the number of .*rc files on $HOME in Debian or Debian-derived and the number of .*rc files in any other distro -- Debian patches packages' config files paths)22:01
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wolf^javispedro, every distro does that to some extent, but without all that fuss debian is making about it22:03
keesjdebian has a good habbit of not following upstream configuration indeed22:04
woglindehm git 1.722:04
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javispedrowolf^: I'm pretty sure Debian does it most, as it causes quite a bit of headaches.22:04
luke-jrjavispedro: LSB sucks22:04
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wolf^javispedro, don't know, don't care really, but the amount of... stuff... about debian politics embedded in packaging instructions is just too much22:05
RST38hHmm...Looks like Win7 does not have user app multitasking too22:05
keesjbut seriousely what I think really is needed is a distro that does cross compilation and at least debian sucks at it !22:05
RST38hPlus it still looks kinda ugly22:05
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javispedroRST38h: at least it's not yet another iphone clone.22:06
luke-jrkeesj: Gentoo22:06
javispedrowell, it's a iphone clone, but not 100%.22:06
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keesjgentoo or oe22:06
RST38hjavispedro: it is22:06
luke-jrOE isn't a distro :p22:06
RST38hjavispedro: just attempting to be "different" by being uglier22:06
wolf^keesj, pld, but you won't be happy with it22:07
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embeddedHi all22:08
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keesjwolf^: downloading :p22:09
wolf^keesj, main target are developers and administrators22:09
wolf^keesj, the recommended installation method is from rescue cd22:09
keesjthe meego website feels better then maemo and "download" is really about download and not "applications"22:09
wolf^keesj, maybe there's some user-friendly installer already, but I don't really know22:10
RST38hanyone got maemo6 demo youtube url?22:10
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embeddedsomeone knows how to retrieve a computer IP remotely if the router gets disconnected (I'd like to connect remotely with VNC to my laptop)22:11
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wiretappedembedded: dyndns.com22:12
embeddedwiretapped: thx, I'll try it22:13
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keesjI wonder if the offering is good enough. will a newbie find qt-creator easy enough?22:14
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woglindeWill MeeGo use .rpm or .deb as its packaging system? MeeGo will use the .rpm format22:15
woglindethats it22:16
woglindeso its seems maemo6 is dead22:16
Sceltrpms suck22:16
Stskeepswoglinde: who said that?22:16
wiretappedStskeeps: the meego faq says it22:17
Stskeepswoglinde: no, maemo622:17
wiretappedbut the moblin faq said "Our current build of Moblin v2.0 is made available in the LSB standard RPM packaging format. However, the packaging format does not really impact how the distribution operates. It's quite possible that we, or someone else, will create future builds using the DPKG format."22:17
* Trizt likes rpm22:17
woglindestskeeps why should nokia pays for 2 platforms22:17
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woglindetrizt any reasons?22:18
wolf^woglinde, bug 9067 for starters22:18
povbot`Bug Consider using RPM Package Manager instead of dpkg22:18
Triztit has good check of dependency and simple to make working spec files22:18
keesjperhaps maemo security also?22:18
wolf^woglinde, any ARGUMENTS against rpm?22:19
woglindewolf download kernel-src.rpm from moblin22:19
woglindeand try to build it22:19
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wolf^woglinde, kernel packages are very distro specific22:20
* GeneralAntilles wonders what we should do with the council election. . . .22:20
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wolf^woglinde, and don't judge rpm by some random distro that uses it22:21
LuciusMarehi, i have got problems when connecting my n900 to my computer, it always mounts as read only22:21
wolf^woglinde, judge it by a distribution that makes good use of it22:21
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sobczyk_I'm trying to configure internet through usb im to the pont where I can ping external (internet) pc's from my n900 but can't resolve the hostnames, is there something i've missed?22:21
woglindewolf which one is this?22:21
woglindehi kathy22:21
wolf^woglinde, read the bug, pld22:21
RevdKathyHow is everyone tonight?22:21
LuciusMareeven if explicitly told to mount as rw22:21
woglindewolf the bug is a linux distro which uses rpm right?22:22
wolf^woglinde, read the references to rpm-devel list, read what rpm developers think about it22:22
RST38hGeneral: Elect Rushmore, Orange, and the rest!22:22
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wiretappedLOL @ bug 9067 "There's no notion of 'upgrade' action in dpkg/apt"22:22
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wolf^wiretapped, enlighten me22:22
wiretappedapt-get upgrade ?22:23
wolf^wiretapped, it upgrades ALL packages22:23
LuciusMarealso, sometimes happens that after umounting it from the computer, it mounts in the tablet as readonly22:23
wolf^wiretapped, I want to upgrade a subset of packages22:23
wiretappedyeah, you do need to specify them then.22:23
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, confused, feeling a bit betrayed.22:23
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wiretappednot something that is often needed, but easy enough to do22:23
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wolf^wiretapped, I need it often22:24
RevdKathyI think a lot of people are feeling like that GeneralAntilles22:24
woglindega the others too? ero,x-fade?22:24
wolf^wiretapped, and dpkg makes it hard for me22:24
wiretappedwolf^: if you need to do that often, you're doing it wrong22:24
mikhaswell, it's a typical top-bottom management decision, isn't it?22:24
GeneralAntilleswoglinde, haven't talked to X-Fade.22:24
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RevdKathyI thought I'd see if the wake was in here - I feel like getting drunk22:24
mikhascommunities are replacable, after all22:24
trbs2wolf^, why ? you can apt-get install22:24
woglindewolf whats the command with rpm/yum?22:24
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trbs2packages to upgrade a subselection22:24
RevdKathyI can only guess how it feels for people who've been around ages. I'm only a n00b22:24
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woglindewolf seems you aren that well with dpkg/apt-get as I with rpm/yum22:24
dl9pfwoglinde: tried zypper ?22:25
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, it feels like I'd be feeling better if they hadn't picked such a terrible name and hadn't delivered the announcement like a steamrolling.22:25
woglindedl9pf nope22:25
woglindedl9pf another package manager?22:25
wolf^trbs, how can I upgrade libqt-{a,b,c,d} without upgrading libqt-{e,f,g,h}, assuming I have only the first set installed?22:25
dl9pftry it22:25
fnordianslipPerhaps the Council should resign22:25
SpeedEvilWhat is the entemology of the name meego?22:25
RevdKathyEven the council werent told, GA.22:25
wolf^woglinde, that's what I wrote in bug report22:25
woglindewolf qt is real bad22:25
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, most of Nokia wasn't told.22:26
wolf^it's an example22:26
* wiretapped raises his drink to RevdKathy22:26
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, to what end?22:26
sobczyk_anyone? I can ping the nameserver but can't ping ie. google.com22:26
trbs2wolf^, if the packages are interconnected you can't, unless you force it ... which makes sens because it will break stuff horribly22:26
woglindewhy the hell you will update libqt-gui and not libqt-svg22:26
RevdKathyAs for the name, it embodies everything I hate about capitalist egocentricity and the opposite of what I understand OS to be22:26
woglindethat makes no sense22:26
fnordianslipGeneralAntilles: in protest about being excluded22:26
wolf^woglinde, it makes sense to me22:26
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, well, I don't think anybody's been excluded.22:26
* wiretapped would love it if the whole council resigned22:26
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, MeeGo is open for community development.22:26
woglindewolf because the apps will not run because of different symbols?22:26
wolf^woglinde, I don't use libqt-svg, so why should I keep it on disk?22:27
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, it's a clean slate.22:27
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, well, except for the name and RPM, I guess.22:27
* SpeedEvil blames the soulless minions of orthodoxy.22:27
wolf^woglinde, if some app needs it, it will install it22:27
RevdKathyI don't think anyone was excluded - harder to lost who was included!22:27
GeneralAntillesWhich are the two worst things about it. <_<22:27
fnordianslipGeneralAntilles: and what about maemo22:27
wolf^woglinde, but none does22:27
woglindewolf so you are talking about deps22:27
wolf^woglinde, in a nutshell22:27
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, it's something I have a lot of emotional attachment with and I'm really sad to see it replaced by something Fisher Price came up with.22:27
woglinderpm-based distro have dep-hell as well22:27
RST38hGeneral: At least it is not IISFMD22:27
wolf^woglinde, I need a small subset of all qt libraries, right?22:28
RST38hor some similar abbreviation22:28
woglindewolf sure22:28
wolf^woglinde, how do I upgrade just that small subset?22:28
* Trizt feels there is a flamewar in the air, just over a package management, why not use ebuilds instead?22:28
RST38hwhich it could well become22:28
woglindeapt-get upgrade -u22:28
woglindeto see what is getting upgraded22:28
wolf^woglinde, qt 4.6 is in extras-devel, I don't want to upgrade anything other than qt from there22:28
woglindewolf you are confused22:29
wolf^no, I'm not22:29
wolf^I know exactly what I want to do22:29
wolf^dpkg makes it hard to do22:29
woglindethan make your own qt packages22:29
woglindethat isnt hard22:29
wolf^woglinde, why?22:29
javispedroapt-get install package will install the latest22:29
wolf^they are in repo already?22:29
RevdKathyYou've been with maemo from the beginning, GeneralAntilles - I would imagine you feel like youve been mugged22:29
wolf^I want just them, nothing else22:29
GeneralAntillesSomething like that.22:29
woglindemental ignore22:29
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trbs2GeneralAntilles, my condolences22:30
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wolf^woglinde, yeah, keep living in your special world22:30
Sceltwoglinde: even I am on your side, I have to say that your argument is leaking. wolf has a point there22:30
* RST38h weeps silently in the perpetual mourning for the fate of Maemo22:30
woglindescelt if he needs something special he have to do this on its own22:30
javispedroR. I. P.22:30
fnordianslipGeneralAntilles: Don't get me wrong, I don't think the transition is a bad idea, I just think that that the community should have been better prepared.  It's not the council's fault, but I still think that they should resign, in protest against being excluded from Nokias plans.22:31
RST38hTerrible, terrible, a perpetual RIP no less22:31
LuciusMareso it does not happen to any of you?22:31
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woglindeand I bet on fedora and opensuse you have the same deps on qt stuff22:31
SpeedEvilfnordianslip: And what does resigning do?22:31
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, seems pointless. There's no way Nokia or Intel would've included them with that many lawyers involved.22:31
wolf^woglinde, I don't need anything special. I don't need full upgrade. I just need to upgrade two or three libqt packages that I use and have installed. I don't need to install rest of qt libraries, or any other upgrades22:31
wolf^woglinde, it's not about dependencies22:31
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javispedrowolf did you try apt-get install package?22:32
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javispedroit pulls the latest here.22:32
javispedroyes, even if it's already installed.22:32
wolf^javispedro, yes, with mixed results22:32
Sceltwoglinde: I think the point is that if I can't update the packages without the possibility of installing new ones. "apt-get install pkg pkg2" will update them if installed but install if not found. "apt-get update pkg pkg2" could only update them when installed but not install in any case22:32
RevdKathyWill there even be a council in the Brave New World? Moblin doesn't have one. Will Meego need one?22:32
javispedrowolf^: since I believe you're talking about the bugreport 9067 "feature", he means the rpm -Uvh feature, where it will upgrade from a set of on-disk .rpm files.22:32
wolf^javispedro, installing libqt-*-core seems to pull the rest of libqt22:32
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, that's up to us to decide, I guess.22:32
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javispedrowolf^: that feature is not in debian's dpkg indeed (rpm -Uvh)22:33
fnordianslipGeneralAntilles: perhaps, you are right. It just feels wrong for something like this to happen out of the blue.22:33
keesjit's time for open-source to start hacking open hardware i guess22:33
RevdKathynot entirely - who are the moblin people we should be talking to? They dont seem to exist22:33
wolf^javispedro, -Uhv installs/upgrades from disk, -Fhv upgrades only that what is already installed22:33
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RevdKathythey are NOT a user or enthusiast community22:33
RST38hkeesj: happened before, did not work22:33
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, I agree entirely, but such are the realities when you're dealing with big companies making agreements like this.22:33
fnordianslipAt least we might get a better email client :)22:33
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, they aren't.22:33
wolf^javispedro, yes22:33
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RevdKathyand why have a council if there's no purpose?22:33
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* LuciusMare wonders if anyone in this channel listens to him22:33
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, Moblin and MeeGo are VERY technical.22:34
RST38hRevdKathy: "The Moblin people" work one floor above me.22:34
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, Moblin is about at the 770 stage.22:34
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* RST38h cackles22:34
Sceltwolf^: can aptitude solve that problem? only update installed packages?22:34
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, MeeGo is basically composed of a bunch of Intel and Nokia employees22:34
fnordianslipI tried Moblin on my eee.  Swifty replaced with #!22:34
RevdKathyso there will be no place for bears in Meego - it will swing back to dev and professionals22:34
RST38hGeneral: Well, I would beg to differ...22:34
wolf^Scelt, I don't know. maybe22:34
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, and a bunch of very confused Maemo people.22:34
trbs2hi LuciusMare :)22:34
pinchartlRST38h: how big is the Moblin development team at Intel ?22:34
woglindeit is dependency stuff22:34
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, well, I think it's up to us to make that place.22:34
RST38hpinchartl: there are multiple teams in different divisions22:35
RevdKathyGuess I was just lucky to enjoy maemo at its height before it vanished22:35
pinchartlRST38h: and how many developers would that be if you put them all together ?22:35
woglindewolf when the new version qtlibs as other deps so guess what is installed with an upgrade22:35
Sceltwoglinde: no it's not :) it's just about the thing that install-command will install the packages stated so it can't be used for updating without the risk of installing new packages.22:35
jormait think this is a setback. it's going to take MeeGo 6 months to come up with the same stuff that already exists on maemo5. from the consumer perspective nothing has changed22:35
woglindescelt *sigh*22:35
RST38hpinchartl: probably form a few dozen to a couple of hundred22:35
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woglindeif one qtversion you have installed has deps on lib1 and lib222:36
RST38hpinchartl: sorry for not having the exact numbers, but even if I did, I would not be able to tell22:36
woglindeand now the same lib has deps lib1 lib2 lib322:36
pinchartlRST38h: damn :-)22:36
woglindelib3 will be installed22:36
woglindeis that to hard to understand?22:36
Sceltwoglinde: forgot the qt libs. it has nothing to do with them22:36
woglindewould be the same on rpm22:36
wiretappedwolf^: again i say you're doing it wrong if you regularly need to do that. but if you do, it is trivial to apt-get ugprade -u and see what of everything would be upgraded and then apt-get install the subset of packages you want to upgrade22:36
Sceltyou're not really getting it, pal22:36
wolf^woglinde, that's how it should be working (and is)22:37
woglindeno you are dont get it22:37
woglindewiretapped excatly22:37
wolf^woglinde, the problem is about something else, but let's leave it, shall we?22:37
woglindeand when the new versions has other deps22:37
woglindethe other deps will be installed22:37
* alterego tries to familiarise himself with Qt.22:37
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woglindealterego it's really fun to programm it22:38
Sceltforgot the qt, forgot the debs22:38
woglindealterego especially with creator22:38
woglindescelt okay explain me the problem22:38
woglindemaybee I am really to old22:38
woglindeto understand it22:38
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wolf^wiretapped, what I really want is a combination of upgrade that accepts install parameters22:39
Sceltwoglinde: I wanna update packages one, two and three but only update them and not install if they don't exist. "apt-get install one two three" will install missing packages and update existing ones22:39
woglindescelt right22:39
RST38hLuciusMare: A slow learner, ain't you? :)22:40
Sceltwoglinde: but I only want to update the existing packages so what I should replace the install-command with?22:40
wolf^wiretapped, so i can do "apt-get upgrade libqt-*" and don't worry that something other that I have installed (and what is not in dependencies) will be installed22:40
woglindescelt apt-get upgrade -u will show whats going to upgrade22:40
woglindewolf apt-get install libqt-*22:40
woglindehm ah22:40
Sceltyou got it now? :)22:40
wolf^woglinde, it will install all libqt-* libraries, I want apt-get to filter it to the subset I have already installed22:40
woglindeapt-get upgrade -u22:40
wolf^(minus the deps of course)22:41
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Sceltwoglinde: will "apt-get upgrade -u one two three" update only packages found and install nothing new?22:41
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woglindescelt upgrade -u is showing you what will be updated22:41
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woglindeyou than can cut and paste it22:41
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Sceltwoglinde: so no way just to update what I want without copypasting22:42
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wiretappedScelt: is this a feature you've needed more than once or twice?22:42
TriztScelt; write a small script that does it for you22:42
wiretappedWhy don't you want to upgrade the rest of your packages?22:42
wolf^wiretapped, I need it every time I want to upgrade qt 4.6 from extras-devel22:42
Sceltwiretapped and Trizt: I am not needing it. wolf asked for it and the thing here is that we've been talknig about different things22:42
woglindewolf why?22:43
wolf^wiretapped, because upgrading to extras-devel is bad ;p22:43
* DocScrutinizer suggests $( )22:43
woglindewlof learn about pinning22:43
woglindeups pinning22:43
wiretappedwolf^: you should be able to apt-get install a single thing that depends on all the stuff you want to upgrade22:43
Sceltwiretapped: well, if you want few packages from unstable repo you may not want to update everything and fuck up the whole system22:43
woglindeyou can pin that qt only should be updated from extras22:43
woglindenot the other stuff22:43
wolf^wiretapped, that's how it seems to work, at least recently, I had some problems with it earlier22:44
woglindethere it is22:44
woglindehave fun22:44
woglindedidnt see rpm has this feature22:44
Triztif wanting some things from unstable and keep rest stable, then it would better to use portage, as you can select which packages to be from unstable, but I doubt anyone here would want to use portage.22:45
LuciusMarehi, i have got problems when connecting my n900 to my computer, it always mounts as read only, and cant be mounted any other way22:45
woglindehm okay22:45
woglindethat was only for repos22:45
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woglindebut there is pinning for packages too22:45
wiretappedwolf^: you can also use pinning to make a repo not upgrade everything22:45
wolf^woglinde, it's apt-get feature, rpm would be a equivalent of dpkg22:45
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wiretappedwolf^: the way they do at
wiretappedmaemo should edit the Release file for extras-devel to make it do that by default22:46
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wiretappedbut you can do it yourself in your apt preferences22:46
TriztLuciusMare; your file system read/write? I had some troubles yesterday when it went just read, mouting at that stage had mede it also read only on my desktop22:46
slonopotamusTrizt, some do want :)22:46
Triztslonopotamus; :)22:47
LuciusMareTrizt: not sure how you do mean it, i think it is mounted as a readwrite in the tablet22:47
LuciusMarelemme try22:47
TriztLuciusMare; on your N900, can you write to the vfat file system?22:47
Triztopen terminal and do a "touch ~/MyDocs/test"22:48
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woglindehm hm22:48
wolf^wiretapped, there's a saying, that the socialism is a political system bravely fighting with problems nonexistant in other political systems22:48
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wolf^wiretapped, seems strangely applicable to this pinning22:48
woglindehm no22:48
woglindepinnig dont help here22:49
wolf^wiretapped, really, I do know what I want to do, I'm comfortable with temporarily enabling extras-devel and getting one or two packages that I want22:49
RST38hah, tmo, where poor disoriented maemo users are comforting each other with the list of things they will bring to moblin...22:49
wolf^wiretapped, any other work is just too much for me22:49
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TriztLuciusMare; then I'm not sure, is it your desktop environment which mounts it with help of dbus or kernel automount or you do it manually?22:50
tgalalHow do I retrieve contact info from osso abook? I want to find contact using his number then get his/her name for example22:50
LuciusMare mount manually22:50
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pupnik_reason number 42 to install ssh on tablet:  using mplayer foo.mp3 to locate the device22:51
LuciusMarepupnik_: my soulmate!22:51
TriztLuciusMare; anything in your dmesg that tells you something?22:51
wiretappedwolf^: so, it sounds to me like apt actually has a better way to do exactly what you want... which would let you just "apt-get upgrade"22:52
LuciusMareTrizt: nope, standard "device connected" messages22:52
wiretappedbut you can't be bothered to put four lines in a text file22:52
* slonopotamus failed to understand pinning. it's just overcomplicated 22:52
wolf^wiretapped, no, not really, let's say I feel adventureous and I wan't to upgrade something from extras-devel22:53
wolf^wiretapped, then I need to remove these four lines, then put them again...22:53
wolf^so much unneeded work22:53
wiretappedno, you just add the thing you want to upgrade to the list of packages you want22:53
wiretappedwolf^: in rpm land, where you can upgrade a wildcarded set of packages...22:54
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ShadowJKanyone else reminded of the OS/2 collaboration? :-D22:54
wiretappedhow do you upgrade everything?22:54
wiretappeddisable the unwanted repo?22:54
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wiretappedseems like more work22:54
wolf^wiretapped, in poldek (apt-get equivalent)22:54
etammeis /etc/fstab wiped out on device reboot?22:54
woglindeetamme yes22:54
wiretappedthe apt way, you can keep your pacakges up to date from mutliple repos22:54
wolf^wiretapped, upgrade libqt-*; upgrade */--dist-upgrade22:54
etammeany way to get permanant changes to it ?22:54
TriztLuciusMare; no odd udev rules that you have added? Thats the last thing I can think of22:54
wolf^wiretapped, and there are some configuration files with repo configuration22:55
wiretappedwhat does "*/--dist-upgrade" mean?22:55
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wolf^wiretapped, nothing, that's two ways to do something; you can either enable interactive mode and enter "upgrade *" or use the "--dist-upgrade" parameter22:56
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wolf^wiretapped, there's no easy way to say "I want that package from that repo, but only that package" in poldek, but then again, what's the use for it? ;>22:57
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wiretappedwolf^: i thought that was the exact functionality that were were complaining apt didn't have, but which it actually does22:58
LuciusMarenobody, really?22:58
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wolf^wiretapped, as I said, I'm comfortable with temporarily enablind some repository and manually specifying what I want to upgrade22:59
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wiretappedjust not in a text file, where you could get upgrades without having to specify it again later23:00
wolf^wiretapped, no, I don't think so (I'm not sure)23:00
wolf^in that way truly apt is better23:00
KamuiN900i know most dont care but man im jealous.  i dont want to pick up my iphone again for anything other than to set my alarm clock alarm23:01
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wolf^wiretapped, what about the rest of that bug?23:01
wiretappedmy head exploded when i read apt didn't do upgrades :)23:01
ShadowJKwohoo, I registered on meego before someone else took 'jk23:01
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wolf^wiretapped, please read the rest, I'm eager to be proved wrong23:02
wiretappedwolf^: #2 and #3 are irritating, but things that people who muck with nonstandard packages rapidly figure out how to deal with...23:02
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wiretappedI've had to manually edit failing control scripts more than once23:03
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wolf^wiretapped, um, these are stored somewhere on filesystem?23:03
etammefinally a bit of reassurance from nokia ...
wolf^wiretapped, rpm holds them in berkeley db, so they're not user-editable23:03
wiretappedwolf^: yeah that is one of the things I really like about apt over rpm - text files for everything23:03
boseefushello all. quick question - is it possible to change the default shell of user on my n999? bash is installed and passwd defines it as bash, but it will not source my bashrc when starting xterm.23:04
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ensii wrote an application that allows user to use shift+arrow keys to swap between application windows (like alt+tab works in windows)23:05
ensianyone interested?23:05
boseefusn999 = n90023:05
wiretappedboseefus: you have an n999?!?!23:05
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boseefusdamnit. still getting used to this tiny keyboard.23:05
wiretappedboseefus: I actually just edited my passwd file the other day, and my xterm has bash now23:05
wiretappeddon't know why it wouldn't work...23:05
boseefusdoes it source your bashrc?23:06
boseefusI have to do that manually.23:06
wiretappedI haven't put a bashrc on it yet23:06
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boseefuswiretapped: any way I can tell a difference between that and ash?23:07
lardmanhmm, quite depressing seeing the level of maths ability of primary school teachers23:08
trbs2boseefus, you can use the 'chsh' command to change your default shell i believe23:08
boseefus$SHELL returns bash23:08
GeneralAntilleslardman, hey, as long as it's higher than the kids. :P23:08
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: marginal it seems23:09
pupnik_ok i got an icon to start xterm in a new window by copying the irssi.desktop to pupterm.desktop and changing the name and removing 'irssi' from the invocation23:09
boseefusI used chsh as well. still doesn't aource my .bashrc. -.-23:10
wiretappedboseefus: my bash says bash in the prompt23:10
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wiretappedboseefus: did you try a .profile instead?23:10
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* wiretapped once learned how to make bash do the right thing here, but then forogt23:11
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red_alerthi folks, are there any bugs known that cause the app. manager to failt its operation and the media player to no longer open up the internet radio thingy? :/23:11
boseefuswiretapped: no, I haven't. is that part of xterm?23:11
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wiretappedboseefus: no, it is one of the things bash looks for23:12
wiretappedman bash23:12
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wiretappedcheck the INVOCATION section of the manpage23:12
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boseefusyikes, never heard of that. I have run bash from the prompt and it would source my .bashrc just fine from there. maybe even .bash_profile, but I know it does for bashrc23:13
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wiretappedboseefus: yeah .profile should work... bash only runs the bashrc if it is an "interactive shell that is not a login shell"23:13
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StskeepsJaffa: for next glass of wine: penguinbait is starting the "fork the forum" discussion again23:14
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boseefuswiretapped: let me try that.23:15
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ShadowJKI wonder if meego will have one repository per device, with things like optification in one but not the other, etc :P23:16
StskeepsShadowJK: OBS based23:17
ShadowJKor if add on apps will be in /usr/local/ all the time or, you know, something sensible?23:17
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ShadowJKWell what does that mean?23:17
Stskeepsmeans we can pretty much do wtf we want23:17
ShadowJKDoes that imply some sort of fragmentation-hell...23:17
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ptljust read about meego23:21
ptlyet another change on maemo?23:21
ptlwe need stability, not this kind of turbulence.23:21
ptlnow I need to use qt creator for my programs? lame.23:21
etammeptl, i think nokia could have done a much better job with the announcement.  it was very disruptive and they gave little info.23:22
etammeptl, but i have no problem with moving to qt23:22
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etammeor anything like that23:22
Ceron^this is the captain speaking: we are having some turbulence, please change to windows mobile23:22
etammemore like jump ship to android23:22
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Ceron^samsung Badaaaa23:23
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ptlis there a vector-based drawing program for n900?23:24
lardmanCeron^: Windows 7 mobile you mean? ;)23:25
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Ceron^sure why not23:26
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spectre-fuck meego - they're ditching debian23:28
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ptlare they?23:29
woglindehi lardman23:30
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spectre-meego is going rpm23:30
woglindesad day23:30
spectre-such bullshit23:30
JaffaStskeeps: Indeed, I'm trying to ignore that. Good luck to 'im23:30
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lardmanhi woglinde23:32
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pupnik_can you explain what is so bad about rpm ?23:37
pupnik_@ spectre-23:37
spectre-it's not about rpm vs deb23:37
SplasPoodif nothing else I'd guess it's a complete reversal of a lot of work done with debs23:37
wiretappedso, without hildon or debian, what is maemo bringing to meego? The maemo6 qt stuff and, "community"?23:37
wiretappedany other software?23:38
spectre-so much as it is about maemo ditching it's debian heritage23:38
spectre-and also23:38
spectre-apt is an amazing tool23:38
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GeneralAntilleswiretapped, lots of the technologies, I guess.23:38
cehtehRST38h: there?23:38
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, BlueZ, Telepathy, etc.23:38
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GeneralAntilleswiretapped, Nokia has a rather significant investment in all of them.23:38
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pupnik_feels like intel just needed to pee in the soup a bit.  different name, different upstream23:38
GeneralAntillesThe browser seems likely.23:39
spectre-so lame23:39
cehtehintel wants atom powered phones :P23:39
spectre-maemo was my dream os23:39
spectre-meego is tainted23:39
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pupnik_maybe intel's marketing is the deciding factor.  what speaks *for* meego?23:39
luke-jrwhat a boring dream!23:40
KamuiN900yea. atom phones would need too much juice23:40
spectre-is maemo open enough that we could just fork it away from nokia?23:41
cehtehwell, has the mameo/community-council any voice about rpm vs apt decision? if they really cry out loud?23:41
woglindecehteh no23:42
cehtehi mean this merger isnt entirely bad, but there should be some effort to get the best out of it for everyone23:42
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jacekowskihow to determine endianess of linux ARM binary?23:42
GeneralAntillesThere's an awful lot of Intel on the infra and technical side and VERY little Maemo.23:42
KamuiN900raped by nokia yet again23:42
woglindejacekowski objdump23:42
jacekowskii don't have objdump on N90023:43
KamuiN900i will never buy another nokia device23:43
KamuiN900this was the final rape23:43
jacekowskiKamuiN900: go away then23:43
jacekowskiKamuiN900: and be raped by apple23:43
cehtehhehe .. prolly because i buyed it23:43
woglindejacekowski install it23:43
cehtehwhen i buyed a apple newton, apple canceled it23:43
jacekowskiwoglinde: E: Couldn't find package objdump23:44
cehtehjust tell me what i shall buy next... windows7? ...23:44
prontocehteh: be sure to give us all lists on what you buy >.>23:44
KamuiN900jacekowski: ill speak my mind where and when i want. keep your winey censorship to yourself23:44
prontocehteh: buy an ipad :p23:44
ScribbleJSo wait, since this IBM thing, maemo is going rpm?23:44
ScribbleJIs that true?? That makes me a sad panda.23:44
jacekowskiKamuiN900: so far you are just moaning about beeing raped23:44
wolf^jacekowski, tried using file?23:44
jacekowskiKamuiN900: without any facts23:44
KamuiN900i cant be mad that i liked maemo and am pissed at the new direction23:44
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