| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, who can't? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Chiku | there are only nokia developpers for maemo release? | 00:00 |
| jaycuse | kk thanks | 00:00 |
| lcuk | Chiku, i dont think linus is a nokian | 00:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Chiku, Nokia has lots of contractors. | 00:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Companies_in_Maemo_development | 00:01 |
| Chiku | maemo based on debian? | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I thought you had 1.2 | 00:01 |
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| Mindflyer91 | Chiku, yes :) | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, no. ;) | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, I'm assuming that if Nokia decides to do another round of community testing Quim will announce it again. | 00:03 |
| jaycuse | SpeedEvil: So basically I want to take mic input and send it to my output .. kind of like gst-launch pulsesrc ! pulsesink .. I'm just wondering if that's possible. When I try it on my laptop it doesn't really work. I can send the input to an ogg file but when I direct it to pulsesink it just does a noice real fast and stops. | 00:03 |
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| Chiku | can you multi boot with debian? grub boot and select maemo or debian? | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, as far as I'm aware nobody without an NDA has access as yet. so. | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Chiku, it doesn't use grub, but yes. | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd bet if the Skype video rumors pan out there will be fixes to the front came firmware. | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/came/cam/ | 00:05 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: I'd bet if the Skype video rumors pan out there will be fixes to the front cam firmware. | 00:05 |
| Chiku | do you know if there is feature to put priority for wifi connexions? | 00:05 |
| Chiku | I have multi wifi connexions, and each time auto select got worse one | 00:06 |
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| fhgft | i have a question about the N900 maybe someone can help me with | 00:06 |
| Mindflyer91 | yes fhgft | 00:07 |
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| fhgft | i was wondering if it can use a sim card to make calls and access the internet | 00:07 |
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| Mindflyer91 | yes, it can ;) | 00:07 |
| ptl | why wouldn't it? it's a mobile phone | 00:08 |
| Mindflyer91 | btw videocalls are not supported | 00:08 |
| Ro9u3oR | i was unaware of that i thought it was classified as a netbook | 00:08 |
| Ro9u3oR | thanks for your help | 00:08 |
| Mindflyer91 | nope | 00:08 |
| Ro9u3oR | what distros of linux can run on it | 00:09 |
| ptl | I am reading on google that 3G video calls aren't common in the US | 00:11 |
| ptl | so maybe that's why I heard so much scorn about it | 00:12 |
| Mindflyer91 | Ro9u3oR, for sure "mer", wich is based on ubuntu jaunty | 00:12 |
| Ro9u3oR | thank you flyer | 00:13 |
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| ptl | Ro9u3oR: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 00:14 |
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| Ro9u3oR | way to anticipate me searching for more info on the distro plt thanks | 00:15 |
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| Mindflyer91 | Ro9u3oR, i think this section of the forum could be usefull: http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=36 | 00:20 |
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| ptl | niiiiice | 00:43 |
| ptl | just got google video working!!!! | 00:43 |
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| ptl | that was quite nice... and the secondary camera is not that bad | 00:46 |
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| ptl | now the next thing would be: how to *initiate* video calls on google talk from the N900? | 00:49 |
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| pupnik__ | ptl: nice. how dows that work | 00:53 |
| ifreq | where i can see example of bugtracker url to put on debian/control? | 00:54 |
| ifreq | and is it necessary on extras-testing? | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | ifreq, is if you want your package in Extras. ;) | 00:54 |
| woglinde1 | ifreq hm | 00:54 |
| ifreq | GeneralAntilles: yeah well i doubht NO one wants my package eventually :) | 00:55 |
| ifreq | but ill just finished it with hildon stuff anyways :P | 00:55 |
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| ifreq | anyone using conky here? | 01:04 |
| ifreq | was just wondering how much it takes system resources when ran by default conf file (on the deb package) | 01:04 |
| ptl | pupnik__: it's as simple as setting up a google account, becoming available and, from the other side, initiating a video call | 01:06 |
| ptl | pupnik__: it goes with sound and such... works nicely | 01:06 |
| ptl | pupnik__: but I don't know how to initiate video calls from the N900 | 01:06 |
| pupnik__ | cool | 01:06 |
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| fnordian900 | ifreq, a bit more than top and less then htop | 01:07 |
| ptl | a bit more than top including the terminal refreshes or not? | 01:07 |
| fnordian900 | ifreq, i wouldn't run it all day except out of curiousity | 01:08 |
| ptl | I wouldn't even install it | 01:08 |
| ifreq | fnordian900: yeh thought something liek that :) | 01:08 |
| fnordian900 | ifreq, try it and see | 01:09 |
| ifreq | yeah when got some time | 01:09 |
| fnordian900 | ptl, suit yerself | 01:09 |
| ifreq | too many blades on fire atm | 01:09 |
| ifreq | :) | 01:09 |
| ifreq | err too many projects | 01:09 |
| ptl | anyway what about gkrellm for the n900? :P | 01:09 |
| ifreq | ptl: rather hot-babe for n900 | 01:10 |
| ifreq | i tryed to package it even.. but it fails on the UI | 01:10 |
| ifreq | someone more skilled could check it | 01:10 |
| ifreq | :) | 01:10 |
| ifreq | worked nicely on FREMANTLE_X86 desktop thought | 01:10 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:10 |
| ifreq | http://dindinx.net/hotbabe/ | 01:10 |
| ptl | ifreq: lol | 01:10 |
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| ptl | it's in medibuntu | 01:11 |
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| ifreq | yeh im sure it works on x86 atleast :P dunno why it didnt play along on armel | 01:11 |
| ifreq | compiled ok and shito but when launching it cuts 1/4 of xterm and shows nothing :P | 01:11 |
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| ptl | maybe size counts. And the hot babe doesn't like small devices, if you know what I mean. | 01:12 |
| ifreq | need someone to check it who understand maemo UI better | 01:12 |
| ptl | lame joke anyway | 01:12 |
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| ifreq | ptl: yeah, tho it worked on SDK X86 ui :P | 01:12 |
| ifreq | so dunno | 01:12 |
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| ifreq | ptl: it fitted nicely on the left side of the screen | 01:12 |
| ifreq | :) | 01:12 |
| ptl | cool | 01:12 |
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| ifreq | mayb ill re look it after ive finished current package | 01:13 |
| ifreq | now good night. | 01:13 |
| Shapeshifter | is there a hotkey for "back" in microb? | 01:13 |
| lcuk | ifreq, needs to be made into a hildon desktop widget | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Backspace? | 01:14 |
| ifreq | lcuk: yeh as you know im not expert on such stuff :P (dev/coding either) | 01:14 |
| ifreq | lcuk: would made a fun app. any takers? :-) *g* | 01:14 |
| Shapeshifter | GeneralAntilles: oh. ^^ | 01:14 |
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| Shapeshifter | so, microb doesn't do html5 <audio> mh. | 01:18 |
| Shapeshifter | or does it? | 01:18 |
| derf | No. | 01:18 |
| lcuk | ifreq, of course it would, i saw it on n810 too | 01:18 |
| lcuk | it builds and runs | 01:18 |
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| lcuk | but because of the WM for maemo, loading it as an app is wrong | 01:18 |
| Shapeshifter | Dr_Cain: mmhh | 01:19 |
| lcuk | would be better as a widget | 01:19 |
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| lcuk | ifreq, if there is already a battery meter type widget | 01:20 |
| lcuk | it would be good to put the same ideas together | 01:20 |
| lcuk | just replace battery pictures with the hot babe one\ | 01:21 |
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| ifreq | lcuk: hmm okay.tho babe just shows cpu usage | 01:22 |
| ifreq | but would be fun on batter too..hmm | 01:23 |
| lcuk | sorry, same principle | 01:23 |
| lcuk | i did of course mean cpu | 01:23 |
| * lcuk has a more advanced battery widget atm tho ;) | 01:23 | |
| ifreq | :) | 01:23 |
| ifreq | whay are you using if i may ask? | 01:24 |
| lcuk | what do yo umean | 01:25 |
| * lcuk puts his pace bar back where its meant to be | 01:25 | |
| ifreq | you said you have more adv batt widget atm | 01:25 |
| lcuk | yeah ive got a battery meter that dynamically renders, its not in hildon tho | 01:25 |
| ifreq | ah okay | 01:25 |
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| lcuk | ifreq, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok | 01:26 |
| lcuk | its the first thing i focus on | 01:26 |
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| ifreq | yeh guess ive seen it | 01:28 |
| lcuk | nod | 01:28 |
| lcuk | would liqhotbabe be the wrong name for an app | 01:28 |
| ifreq | hahah nope :) | 01:29 |
| lcuk | im actually just thinking what kind of patching it would take to original hotbabe | 01:29 |
| lcuk | to have it in liqbase :) | 01:30 |
| ifreq | hrr :) cool | 01:30 |
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| crashanddie | ~ping | 01:40 |
| infobot | ~pong | 01:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, you posted a dupe. | 01:41 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: and deleted it already | 01:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, OK. | 01:41 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: that's why the ~ping was for | 01:42 |
| crashanddie | w/why/what/ | 01:42 |
| crashanddie | oh ffs | 01:42 |
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| cehteh | is there any irc client for mameo which can blink the notification light AND release the blinking .. AND be able to join channels | 01:56 |
| cehteh | .. guess thats a bit much or? | 01:56 |
| ptl | maybe you can script some python or perl to do this to the xchat for n900 | 01:57 |
| jacekowski | i'm using irssi on screen | 01:58 |
| jacekowski | with jabber_notify | 01:58 |
| matthew- | im using just irssi on screen. | 01:58 |
| jacekowski | and it notifies my n900 by jabber | 01:58 |
| ptl | the blink lights? | 01:58 |
| ptl | oh, got it | 01:58 |
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| cehteh | there is a hack for start it blinking .. but nothing to turn the blinking off | 02:00 |
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| cehteh | (for xchat) | 02:00 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: that sounds ugly | 02:01 |
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| jacekowski | cehteh: why? | 02:01 |
| ptl | is this hack via script or patch, cehteh? | 02:02 |
| * cehteh thinks about writing a small xchat plugin but i was wondering if there exist such already | 02:02 | |
| cehteh | ptl: yes | 02:02 |
| ptl | yes?? | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: i have constant irc connection on server somewhere far away | 02:02 |
| ptl | either one or the other :P | 02:02 |
| ptl | I mean, xchat is extensible by scripts | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: and it's just sending notification over jabber | 02:02 |
| cehteh | i written xchat plugins befire | 02:02 |
| ptl | that does not sound like a task for a plugin or patch to the xchat source code | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: so there is no parts/joins on channel | 02:02 |
| ptl | it seems that a small script could do this task | 02:02 |
| cehteh | yeah | 02:03 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: so i'm not going to miss any notifications or something | 02:03 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: well i have no jabber account | 02:03 |
| jacekowski | i have whole server | 02:03 |
| cehteh | irc is enough for everyone :P | 02:03 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: and you can use gmail | 02:03 |
| cehteh | i have no gmail :P | 02:03 |
| cehteh | irc is enough for everyone .. | 02:03 |
| jacekowski | pity | 02:03 |
| ptl | no jabber, no gmail | 02:04 |
| ptl | you find google evil? | 02:04 |
| cehteh | ok i have my own server .. i could do some stuff | 02:04 |
| ptl | google's small amounts of evilness are not on scale compared to microsoft's! | 02:04 |
| cehteh | heh | 02:04 |
| cehteh | not sure about, but i had no need and google certainly invades privacy more than ms | 02:05 |
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| jacekowski | not really | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | it's you that disclose these informations | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | are you aware that this channel is logged | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | and publicly awaliable | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | avaliable* | 02:07 |
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| Shapeshifter | cehteh: ms? well from vista sp2 on, you can be sure that they're 100% in your room, if they just like to. with google on the other hand, they only are able to sniff through data you actually uploaded to their servers | 02:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | cehteh: in any case, Zimbra is quite nice. includes a nice mail server and also jabber. On the downside, it's a huge monster which ships its own version of just about everything. | 02:10 |
| Shapeshifter | if you want to try something on your server | 02:11 |
| cehteh | not really .. considering google analytics, ad banners, cookies, partner programs, friends which use gmail, translation service, maps .. whatever | 02:11 |
| cehteh | and i am not paranoid, i use google for maps and searching | 02:11 |
| jacekowski | can anybody highlight me | 02:11 |
| Proteous | jacekowski: HI!!! | 02:11 |
| cehteh | i just dont want an account there and i have my own mail server | 02:11 |
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| jacekowski | thx | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: no | 02:11 |
| Shapeshifter | cehteh: still, they don't get to read stuff you have on your computer, except if you allow their app to do so ;) | 02:11 |
| Shapeshifter | while vista sp2 and 7 contain spyware | 02:12 |
| Shapeshifter | and malware even. | 02:12 |
| cehteh | i dont care about reading my stuff (well i do, but still i dont use windows either) and most things i do are public anyways as in open source which is available | 02:12 |
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| Shapeshifter | sure, whatever suits you ^^ | 02:12 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: zimbra is unreliable | 02:12 |
| Shapeshifter | jacekowski: somewhat. but it performed not too bad for us | 02:13 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: causes loads of problems with external mail accounts | 02:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | jacekowski: external? | 02:13 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: and barely works with maemo | 02:13 |
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| jacekowski | and MfE | 02:13 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: yeah | 02:13 |
| cehteh | anyways .. about xchat .. how (under what rule) would one clear the blinking light? .. *thinking* | 02:13 |
| jacekowski | Shapeshifter: importing e-mails from imap fails quite often | 02:13 |
| cehteh | just foreground/focus xchat | 02:13 |
| Shapeshifter | jacekowski: importing? You mean, in case zimbra reads from an imap server? | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | yes | 02:14 |
| Shapeshifter | no clue about that | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | i know that it have problems with it | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | it works fine | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | and then for some reason id number gets duplicated | 02:15 |
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| jacekowski | and you have to manualy edit database to fix it | 02:15 |
| jacekowski | and MfE on maemo barely works with it | 02:15 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh. but MfE for maemo is broken | 02:17 |
| cehteh | brillant ... /gui hide lets one hide xchat .. completely .. no way to get it back on the n900 .. no systray | 02:17 |
| Shapeshifter | because ms' implementation is broken (or so?) | 02:17 |
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| Shapeshifter | cehteh: there's a systray app somewhere in extras-devel I think | 02:18 |
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| crashanddie | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44503 | 02:18 |
| * crashanddie facepalm | 02:18 | |
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| cehteh | yeah but i dont want to clutter the small screen :) | 02:18 |
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| cehteh | next try | 02:18 |
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| cehteh | /GUI MSGBOX test | 02:19 |
| cehteh | also nice .. that works | 02:19 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: go do your testing/useless echoing somewhere else, will you? | 02:19 |
| cehteh | i just report here :P | 02:20 |
| lcuk | cehteh, shame it doesnt allow you to PM your commands | 02:20 |
| * lcuk tries it | 02:20 | |
| lcuk | cool! | 02:20 |
| lcuk | cehteh, what other inline commands are there | 02:21 |
| cehteh | heh rtfm .. i shut up now | 02:21 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, BAH | 02:21 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: eh? | 02:22 |
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| crashanddie | wtf, now we have people trolling about tmo being owned by Nokia??? | 02:22 |
| lcuk | dunno seb | 02:23 |
| lcuk | but you stopped cehteh from talking by bein a grump | 02:23 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: because I don't care for people going "Oh this works", "Oh this doesn't", "Oh this works" | 02:25 |
| ShadowJK | it's not nokia, it's an evil cabal that is very good at what they do | 02:25 |
| ShadowJK | ;) | 02:25 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: if I wanted that, I'd be on twitter | 02:25 |
| cehteh | ok going to try this tomorrow .. n8 | 02:27 |
| lcuk | nite cehteh | 02:27 |
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| Proteous | attack of the pupnik clones | 02:34 |
| satmd | :D | 02:34 |
| satmd | rather unsuccessful :D | 02:35 |
| Proteous | heh | 02:35 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles & zerojay: and now I'm going to be called a tyrant for locking the thread | 03:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | You are a tyrant. | 03:13 |
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| crashanddie | ~burn GeneralAntilles | 03:17 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over GeneralAntilles, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 03:17 | |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I really want to meet Darius in person. | 03:17 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: you've got stones, I'd say | 03:17 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I'd be too afraid to beat the crap out of a guy like that | 03:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | He must have so many things to teach. | 03:17 |
| crashanddie | When I see people like that, my bully side comes out... Call it my natural empathy | 03:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tyrant and a bully. . . . | 03:18 |
| crashanddie | oh ya | 03:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also a skilled large diameter wood-chipper operative? | 03:19 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I'm 17 kinds of rare | 03:21 |
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| acidjazz | any1 here own audio technica headphones | 04:14 |
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| user_ | hi guys.. how do can i install python2.5-qt4-sql ? | 05:05 |
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| matthew- | crashanddie: ! | 05:16 |
| matthew- | How could you | 05:16 |
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| zerojay | crashanddie: I had no idea you were a mod on the forum. | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, tremble! | 05:19 |
| zerojay | lol | 05:19 |
| matthew- | zerojay: he deleted my boob picture. | 05:21 |
| zerojay | mmkay | 05:21 |
| matthew- | :( | 05:21 |
| matthew- | not funny. | 05:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Boobies! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Starr_060228-6399_Chenopodium_oahuense.jpg | 05:23 |
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| Lumpio- | I'm afraid those might not be what you think they are. | 05:26 |
| Lumpio- | Oh. They are actually boobies. | 05:26 |
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| matthew- | lol | 05:29 |
| matthew- | http://konieczny.be/geekfun/jobs_unfinished_project.jpg | 05:29 |
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| kamui | yo | 05:47 |
| kamui | WHO's the GIMP | 05:47 |
| kamui | who ported Wesnoth :) | 05:47 |
| kamui | I want to paypal them 5$ | 05:47 |
| kamui | just for being such an excellent person | 05:47 |
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| luke-jr | lol | 05:51 |
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| crashanddie | matthew-: live with it | 06:02 |
| crashanddie | zerojay: been for quite some time now | 06:02 |
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| LuciusMare | hi, so i found the alarm-not-snoozing bug | 08:01 |
| LuciusMare | When i set it to offline mode, and something wants to use the internet, like ntpd or mail (i am not sure, it might be just one naughty app) the dialog appears - "Do you want to turn the offline mode off?" and stays there, catching the input. Now, when the alarm starts, all presses or clicks are sent to that dialog. So i've got to snooze it by turning it over, answering the off mode dialog and waiting to stop the alarm. | 08:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bug's been filed. | 08:09 |
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| LuciusMare | oh | 08:18 |
| LuciusMare | well, thanks | 08:18 |
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| tigert | morn | 08:32 |
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| Ken-Young | tigert, Good evening." | 08:34 |
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| RST38h | "'Cool' X Terminal commands for a noob?" | 08:39 |
| RST38h | Ahhahahaha | 08:39 |
| RST38h | (obligatory rm-rf already mentioned by qwerty12) | 08:39 |
| RST38h | The original poster's join date is Feb2010, too. Are they *really* getting more stupid with every month? | 08:40 |
| sheepbat | how the heck do you have a "cool" xterm command | 08:44 |
| MiXu- | The same way you have a cool fanny pack | 08:45 |
| mashiara | It seems I cannot use the search to find this supposedly humorous thread | 08:47 |
| mashiara | link please ? | 08:47 |
| Trizt | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44516 | 08:53 |
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| Ken-Young | tigert, Good evening." | 09:12 |
| Ken-Young | Oops - sorry, bad uparrow. | 09:13 |
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| asj_ | good morning | 09:17 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: lmao all the reports that come in for the rm -rf / post | 09:21 |
| sejo | someone using syncevolution? It does not show etries that should be synced from server (calendar) and it creates multiple entries on the server (each time I sync it creates an entry) | 09:25 |
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| mashiara | anyone know how to see what goes wrong when launching a (python) program via the menu (.desktop file), executing the file from commandline works just fine. | 09:57 |
| ham5 | run the desktop file on cmd line? | 09:59 |
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| mashiara | no I mean running the executable the .desktop file tries to launch on terminal, or is there a way to run the .desktop file somehow ? | 10:01 |
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| mashiara | s/run the .desktop/execute the .desktop/ | 10:01 |
| infobot | mashiara meant: no I mean running the executable the .desktop file tries to launch on terminal, or is there a way to execute the .desktop file somehow ? | 10:01 |
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| Stskeeps | morning | 10:04 |
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| ensi | hi | 10:05 |
| ensi | is it possible to register hotkeys on maemo5? | 10:05 |
| ensi | say, i want a service to grab "shift+backspace" and do something on this keycombo, maybe have to look at doing this at X server level? | 10:07 |
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| adeus | ensi, you could try xsendkey | 10:16 |
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| villager | ensi: why not do it the same way you would on a regular linux desktop running X? | 10:18 |
| ScribbleJ | Well, I'm in trouble. My N900 spontaneously rebooted itself, and now will not boot all the way up. | 10:18 |
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| WZhang | Somehow my sources file must be very f****, wont install most, i.e. says that "bluemaemo has no installation candidate" and i should install "bluemaemo" instead lol | 10:18 |
| ScribbleJ | It gets to the five dots, then shuts down again. | 10:18 |
| ScribbleJ | I can't get it into the flashing mode by holding down 'u'. :( | 10:18 |
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| WZhang | hmm, if it really dead only Nokia flash equipment will help | 10:19 |
| ensi | villager: well i guess the trouble is that i havent done X programmign directly, always used a windowing kit like gtk or qt | 10:19 |
| ScribbleJ | What is "Nokia Flash equipment?" | 10:19 |
| ensi | ScribbleJ: a linux pc? | 10:19 |
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| WZhang | no | 10:20 |
| ScribbleJ | ensi, Right, I got one of those. | 10:20 |
| jaem_n900 | morning | 10:20 |
| WZhang | a FPS-21 + FLS-5 dongle | 10:20 |
| ScribbleJ | But it's worthless unless I can boot into flashing mode. | 10:20 |
| WZhang | + Interface cable | 10:20 |
| WZhang | connect under the battery | 10:20 |
| WZhang | *connects | 10:20 |
| ensi | oh real symbian like flashing tools | 10:20 |
| WZhang | exactly, normal nokia flashing equipment as used in stores | 10:20 |
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| ScribbleJ | And WTf, if I take out the SDHC card it won't power on /at all/. | 10:21 |
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| jaem_n900 | WZHang, where did you get this equipment, out of curiousity? | 10:21 |
| WZhang | hmm, Sounds more like an Hardware error then | 10:21 |
| WZhang | jaem_n900: "Officially" only over Nokia | 10:21 |
| WZhang | the FPS-21 is no Problem, you can get it anywhere - only the Dongle is hard to get | 10:21 |
| WZhang | Without the Dongle its basically worthless | 10:22 |
| jaem_n900 | ah... ;) | 10:22 |
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| ScribbleJ | wtfun. | 10:22 |
| jaem_n900 | a friend was interested, hence my question | 10:22 |
| tybollt | WZhang: so that is what those "golden dots" on the PCB showing when you take out the batt is for? | 10:22 |
| ScribbleJ | So I'm phoneless and there's jack all I can do about it? | 10:22 |
| ScribbleJ | This is severely disappointing. | 10:22 |
| ensi | ScribbleJ: did you do anything to the phoen? | 10:23 |
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| ensi | or it just started doing that by itself? | 10:23 |
| villager | ensi: XGrabKey | 10:23 |
| WZhang | tybollt: yes, exactly | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | ScribbleJ: you should be able to flash still, make sure your battery is charged | 10:23 |
| WZhang | wait, let me see if i find a adapter and can make a pic, sec | 10:23 |
| ScribbleJ | I was copying a file via ssh onto the SDHC card, when the phone just rebooted. I wasn't doing anything strange and it was definitely not going on (and therefore filling up) the root parition. | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | it's not very often at all you need flash equipment. | 10:23 |
| ScribbleJ | Stskeeps, how? | 10:24 |
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| Stskeeps | ScribbleJ: first off, use a 32-bit pc, windows xp or linux, and flash through there | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | and see if you can charge your battery in another device | 10:24 |
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| ScribbleJ | Stskeeps, well, I luckily have a 32-bit notebook... but how am I going to flash? The battery is fully charged, FWIW. | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | ~flashing | 10:24 |
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| infobot | i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 10:24 |
| ensi | villager: all rite, thanksn | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | ScribbleJ: take out battery, plug in usb on both sides, start flasher, put in battery | 10:25 |
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| ScribbleJ | Stskeeps, I'll try that, but that link that just posted will nto work. I've used 'u' to get into flashing mode before. It does not work now. | 10:25 |
| WZhang | tybollt: http://www.abload.de/img/foto05583ye.jpg | 10:26 |
| WZhang | FPS-21 adapter for Nokia 6280 | 10:26 |
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| Stskeeps | ScribbleJ: i have never used 'u' personally. | 10:27 |
| WZhang | Anyone got a N800? | 10:27 |
| WZhang | or N810, with Diablo | 10:27 |
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| ScribbleJ | Aha | 10:29 |
| ScribbleJ | That technique seems to have worked, Stskeeps. | 10:29 |
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| Stskeeps | ScribbleJ: good :) | 10:30 |
| ScribbleJ | I didn't even have to flash the whole thing, just reflashed the kernel. | 10:30 |
| ScribbleJ | That doesn't make much sense, though... wonder why it died. | 10:30 |
| WZhang | look in logfiles | 10:31 |
| jaem_n900 | WZHang, yes, but not charged | 10:31 |
| ensi | ScribbleJ: you did try hard booting it yes? | 10:31 |
| jaem_n900 | what do you need? | 10:31 |
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| ScribbleJ | ensi, what does a hard boot look like, different from a normal boot? | 10:31 |
| ensi | ScribbleJ: you yank out the battery | 10:31 |
| WZhang | WZhang: any way to give me your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list ? mine is pretty much cr*p, and does not work well anymore | 10:32 |
| WZhang | eh | 10:32 |
| ScribbleJ | I did that, yes. It didn't help any. | 10:32 |
| WZhang | why i highlight myself, i meant jaem_n900 :P | 10:32 |
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| ScribbleJ | Flashing with Stskeeps's battery method worked though. | 10:32 |
| tybollt | ScribbleJ: which is? | 10:33 |
| WZhang | i prefer a complete flash over the Box, since it can repair i.e. Bootloader | 10:33 |
| jaem_n900 | WZHang, hehe... give me a sec, and I'll see if it has enough power to boot for a sec | 10:33 |
| ScribbleJ | tybollt, remove battery, plug in usb cable, start flasher, replace battery. | 10:33 |
| WZhang | thanks ;D | 10:33 |
| tybollt | uhm | 10:33 |
| tybollt | "plug in usb on both sides"? | 10:33 |
| tybollt | huh? | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt: host and device | 10:33 |
| ScribbleJ | tybollt, to the phone and the pc. :) | 10:33 |
| WZhang | on your PC and on Phone | 10:33 |
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| tybollt | d'oh :) | 10:33 |
| WZhang | DONT try to fit in USb in headphone jack lol | 10:34 |
| jaem_n900 | I don't often have it charged since I got my N900 loaner, because I don't want to kill the battery for when I may have to give the N900 back | 10:34 |
| ScribbleJ | I don't understand. | 10:34 |
| WZhang | yeah, the batterys die pretty fast - thats why i have many backup batterys ;) | 10:34 |
| tybollt | "My god dern flashermathing won't kerwork - I haven't connect 'er to da PC just yet, what's wrong, why're not working?" | 10:34 |
| ScribbleJ | tybollt, you laugh but I've done things that stupid. | 10:35 |
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| ScribbleJ | like the time I had my guy return a notebook to the store because it stopped working.... I hadn't plugged it in. | 10:35 |
| jaem_n900 | WZhang, sorry, it's dead right now. I could pull the card and pastebin it from my desktop, but I'm heading to bed | 10:35 |
| WZhang | has time | 10:35 |
| jaem_n900 | you should be able to find a standard list online, though | 10:35 |
| WZhang | not really, already googled long | 10:36 |
| jaem_n900 | good luck | 10:36 |
| jaem_n900 | hmm | 10:36 |
| jaem_n900 | okay, well, sorry | 10:36 |
| WZhang | np | 10:36 |
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| tybollt | ScribbleJ: fair enough =) | 10:36 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:47 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: ping? | 10:47 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Please make sure the <pubDate> in your feeds is stable. | 10:47 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: When you published a new issue of mwkn, all pubdates were updated. | 10:48 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Really? Hmm | 10:48 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Check the rss ;) | 10:49 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: And the planet for that matter. | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Ah yes, I see. | 10:49 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: Fixed | 10:50 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Cool, not a big deal now. But annoying when you reach 50 issues :) | 10:50 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: I've fixed the script so that it shouldn't happen again | 10:53 |
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| WZhang | ... | 11:01 |
| WZhang | next time i check if i need devel repo for anything | 11:01 |
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| WZhang | before i try to figure 7 days out why it does not work | 11:02 |
| tybollt | hmm | 11:03 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: mwkn tip: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44479 (wishes of older device users) | 11:05 |
| RST38h | moo, ab | 11:06 |
| tybollt | moab on espoo? | 11:08 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Ta. | 11:14 |
| flux | I read somewhere that charging (nor maintaining the charge from the battery that is being used by the device?) doesn't occur when the green light is on, is this correct? | 11:14 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: Can you force Planet to refetch the MWKN feed to tidy up the pubDates? | 11:16 |
| flux | IOW, if I put my device into charger at the evening and leave it there until the morning, has it been without wired electricity for many hours already in the morning? | 11:16 |
| ab | RST38h, | 11:17 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Done. | 11:19 |
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| th0br0 | Umm, where to open Bugs against the maemo webpage? | 11:21 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Ta | 11:21 |
| th0br0 | On the regular BT? | 11:21 |
| th0br0 | Yeah, nvm the question. | 11:22 |
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| andre__ | th0br0, Bugzilla > maemo.org Website | 11:25 |
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| th0br0 | Yeah, the 404 appears to have miraculously fixed itself though once I reopened the page... | 11:26 |
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| pupnik__2 | coumem applet could easily be oart of the stock maemo5 distro | 11:27 |
| pupnik__2 | cpumem | 11:27 |
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| WZhang | fin my n800nally typing over bluemaemo right now o | 11:27 |
| WZhang | *finally | 11:27 |
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| WZhang | needs german keyboard layout, but everything else works good | 11:27 |
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| pupnik__2 | germany should adopt us kbd layout and map umlauts to fn+u,a,o,s | 11:29 |
| WZhang | lol | 11:29 |
| inz | umlaut-s? | 11:29 |
| WZhang | Cant type like that, i cant even remember where the @ key is on US KB | 11:29 |
| pupnik__2 | for ss | 11:30 |
| WZhang | ß | 11:30 |
| WZhang | ^^^this | 11:30 |
| inz | pupnik, but it has no umlaut in it | 11:30 |
| WZhang | it is actually itself one | 11:30 |
| pupnik__2 | yeah see. if we used us kbd layout we would have economic advantage working overseas | 11:30 |
| MiXu- | Hmm... The lack of profiles in N900 is really annoying :( | 11:30 |
| WZhang | well, we should let everyone use the most used KB on world | 11:31 |
| WZhang | ZH_CN | 11:31 |
| WZhang | :D | 11:31 |
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| sobczyk | hi, does the maemo 5 haj japanese/korean input methods? | 11:31 |
| pupnik__2 | i would learn chinese but i dont want to sound like them | 11:31 |
| inz | umlaut turns "back vowels" into "front vowels", s is not a vowel | 11:32 |
| pupnik__2 | i know inz. | 11:32 |
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| WZhang | sobczyk: i assume it has, at least onscreen | 11:32 |
| WZhang | as i use HK-CN on my N800 | 11:32 |
| sobczyk | WZhang, because o the screen I assume something like scim on linux | 11:33 |
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| sobczyk | i mean HW eyboard | 11:33 |
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| inz | Also, my german teacher tols that ß is being deprecated and one should use ss instead | 11:33 |
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| WZhang | Does it even have enough keys for JP/KR? | 11:33 |
| Shrik3 | they use chording afaik | 11:33 |
| inz | So mybe that could be boosted using keyboard layout without ß | 11:33 |
| WZhang | lol inz, he told you serious crap then :D | 11:33 |
| sobczyk | ful qwerty should be enough for input | 11:33 |
| sobczyk | though I wasn't able to find any info on IM's on the n900/maemo5 | 11:35 |
| Shrik3 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9F#Current_usage_in_German | 11:35 |
| asj_ | you can change the keyboard layour fairly easily | 11:37 |
| asj_ | google it for directions | 11:38 |
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| inz | WZhang, yah, it's the only source saying such things this far | 11:38 |
| inz | WZhang, maybe it was her opinion =) | 11:38 |
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| sobczyk | one more thing, is it possible to limit data transfer to wifi only? | 11:39 |
| WZhang | I think so | 11:39 |
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| WZhang | since i live in Austria and speak perfect german, and learned it for a long time :P | 11:40 |
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| pupnik | i would really like a ustream client | 12:09 |
| pupnik | their flash is too heavy in browser | 12:09 |
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| ShadowJK | lol ok, nilfs2 might not be so good | 12:12 |
| ShadowJK | my flash stick has developed a bad block in 2 days :) | 12:13 |
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| pupnik | http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10451703-2.html [ Buzz off: Disabling Google Buzz | Webware - CNET ] | 12:22 |
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| X-Fade | http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm <- MWC press conference starting. | 12:31 |
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| nid0 | http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-mobile-7-interface-and-device-leaked-on-mwc-banners/ oops | 12:33 |
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| mece | hello? | 12:41 |
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| xt | Greetings | 12:41 |
| Ken-Young | Hi | 12:41 |
| mece | What's this MeeGo crap twitter is spamming me with? | 12:41 |
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| _berto_ | http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm | 12:43 |
| mece | yep yep. | 12:43 |
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| X-Fade | http://meego.com | 12:44 |
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| D-Iivil | Hi there. Is someone here who can see what's wrong with package getting imported to repos? | 12:44 |
| ifreq | does repository keep stats how many hits/downloads some package has got? | 12:44 |
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| mece | hmm fully open source they say.. | 12:44 |
| ifreq | D-Iivil: usually builder tells it :P | 12:44 |
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| ifreq | D-Iivil: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/?C=M;O=D | 12:45 |
| pillar_ | meego! | 12:45 |
| Ken-Young | ifreq, Extras keeps track of downloads. Extras-testing and -devel do not | 12:45 |
| D-Iivil | ifeq, build is successfully, but the package still doesn't get imported to repos. This has happened to me few times and sometimes it works if I re-upload the source with different version number. | 12:45 |
| ifreq | Ken-Young: oki | 12:46 |
| ifreq | D-Iivil: it takes some time to get refreshed atleast. | 12:46 |
| D-Iivil | ifreq, and if your asking me to wait a bit longer; package I uploaded to extras-devel two weeks ago hasn't still got imported even the build was ok :-P | 12:46 |
| ifreq | i usually grow the package number when done some changes | 12:47 |
| D-Iivil | Yes, me too. But you can't upload the package with same version number 'coz the system tells it's already there. | 12:47 |
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| X-Fade | D-Iivil: Which package? | 12:47 |
| D-Iivil | So I'm asking if there's someone who has access to the server and could see if the package went to trash by mistake or something. | 12:47 |
| D-Iivil | This: http://maemo.org/packages/view/iivilsteel-ovi/ & https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/iivilsteel-ovi_2.0.0.0/ | 12:48 |
| villemv | moblin goes qt | 12:48 |
| nid0 | meego* | 12:48 |
| D-Iivil | And it still won't show up here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/i/ | 12:48 |
| mavhc | so intel will concentrate on talbet, nokia on phone, share os? | 12:48 |
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| nid0 | intel calling everyone at maemo.org to go join meego.com | 12:49 |
| wazd | heya all | 12:49 |
| thresh | OHAI | 12:49 |
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| th0br0 | so in the future there will only be meego, but no maemo? | 12:50 |
| mavhc | seems so, stupid name | 12:51 |
| mavhc | meego, so simple even a 3 year old can understand it | 12:51 |
| nid0 | the announcement would suggest that harmattan just died | 12:52 |
| mavhc | mee go internet now! | 12:52 |
| mece | lol | 12:52 |
| villemv | it's a scheme to bring back amiga | 12:52 |
| mece | amiga ftw! | 12:52 |
| wazd | canhazchizburger OS :D | 12:52 |
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| th0br0 | "harmattan"? | 12:52 |
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| mavhc | the amiga port is obviously called ameego | 12:52 |
| mece | qgil want's discussion here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=527101 | 12:52 |
| th0br0 | nvm. yeah | 12:53 |
| nid0 | first meego release in q2 apparently | 12:53 |
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| mece | is harmattan meego? | 12:53 |
| villemv | it's meego 6 ;-) | 12:53 |
| bigbrovar | wow | 12:53 |
| asj_ | I thought maemo was lame....I shouldn't have complained ;) | 12:54 |
| bigbrovar | so you guys heard .. that was totally unexpected | 12:54 |
| D-Iivil | X-Fade: Can you help me with the issue? | 12:54 |
| wazd | http://meego.com/sites/all/themes/meego/images/splash-community.png - MeeGo masscots :D | 12:54 |
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| mavhc | makes sense, no way maemo could compete against android otherwise | 12:54 |
| * Jaffa giggles that the MeeGo announcement says "Moblin and maemo [sic] are merging!" | 12:55 | |
| X-Fade | D-Iivil: yes. | 12:55 |
| D-Iivil | Great :) | 12:55 |
| wazd | X-Fade: you should register meego.org like now :) | 12:56 |
| mece | so.. Is harmattan == meego? | 12:56 |
| nid0 | he'd be a couple of years late trying to do so | 12:56 |
| bigbrovar | I wonder how this would play out, moblin is based on gtk and uses clutter for tranistion multitouch and effect, while maemo is moving to Qt.. also maemo is based on debian while moblin is based on fedora, moblin is optimised for atom while maemo is compiled for arm .. hmm | 12:56 |
| alterego | That's really good news. | 12:56 |
| th0br0 | meego is purely qt apparently | 12:57 |
| th0br0 | http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture | 12:57 |
| mece | meego.com has N900 on front page | 12:57 |
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| mece | yeah they said meego is qt. | 12:57 |
| alterego | I reckon meego will be maemo operating stack and meego (moblin) user space tools;. | 12:57 |
| alterego | This will push the development community a great deal. | 12:58 |
| th0br0 | http://meego.com/developers/getting-started/create-basic-meego-application < duh, that is funny... now where's the difference to that application and a basic qt hello world app | 12:58 |
| asj_ | th0br0: that's a hell of a lot ore complicated | 12:58 |
| alterego | th0br0: maybe that's the point :P | 12:58 |
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| mece | th0br0, well the point would be that there is no difference. | 12:58 |
| bigbrovar | I think this moves frees maemo from Nokias grip and makes it like symbian and android | 12:59 |
| bigbrovar | so anyone can ship devices based on meego | 12:59 |
| asj_ | they'll screw it up and meego will be uiq and maemo s60 ;) | 12:59 |
| inz | wazd, meego.org was registered in Nov-2008 | 13:00 |
| mece | the nokia dude said "fully open source".. so will it be FULLY open source? | 13:00 |
| nid0 | "fully open source" probably = mostly open source | 13:00 |
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| asj_ | mece: meego doesn't need a cell radio.... | 13:00 |
| mece | righty-o | 13:00 |
| X-Fade | mece: Device specific layer will probably not be a part of it. | 13:00 |
| mavhc | http://meego.com/about/licensing-policy | 13:00 |
| alterego | I bet there's just one agreement between Nokia and Intel, ``You can use it, and we'll work with you, just don't build any phones okay?'' :) | 13:00 |
| mece | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/meego-time.html | 13:00 |
| tybollt | nid0: "mostly opensource" == "sign NDA here!"? | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt: HW parts will always be problematic | 13:02 |
| mece | Jaaksi's blog: "MeeGo is free. Code will be available for everybody under proper open source licenses. No strings attached" | 13:02 |
| asj_ | so how do you pronounce meego? | 13:02 |
| tybollt | Stskeeps: mind I'm just ranting abuot the use of "opensource", not really weighing in in any discussion ;) | 13:02 |
| mece | I'm guessing it's "me go" | 13:02 |
| nid0 | pronounced as meego | 13:02 |
| Ken-Young | Has any commercial product actually been shipped with Moblin? | 13:02 |
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| * Jaffa wonders if there'll still be two communities in practice, or one | 13:04 | |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: time for soul searching, too | 13:05 |
| pupnik | hrw|gone: seqretary might be an interesting schedule app for you | 13:06 |
| wazd | join the maemo-nazi channel! :D | 13:06 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Indeed. Implications for Community Council as well | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: at least meego has a 'governance' part | 13:06 |
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| alterego | Hahah | 13:07 |
| pupnik | i dont like all these competitors | 13:08 |
| pupnik | kill them with fire | 13:09 |
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| tybollt | so guys | 13:09 |
| tybollt | it's been a great ride w/ maemo | 13:09 |
| tybollt | too bad it couldn't last | 13:09 |
| Anidel | so.. meego ... | 13:09 |
| Anidel | well it'll merge.. I wonder what'll happen with maemo.org, the forum etcetera | 13:10 |
| wazd | well, I think it's more good than bad | 13:10 |
| tybollt | where do I go get my N900 refund? | 13:10 |
| Anidel | me too | 13:10 |
| pupnik | tybollt: go away | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | Anidel: talk.meego.com time ;p | 13:10 |
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| wazd | now I can actually test my themes without buying $1k device :D | 13:10 |
| Anidel | tybollt, actually Maemo 6 wasn't headed to the N900 anyway.. so where's the issue? | 13:10 |
| tybollt | pupnik: hehe :) I'm joking. | 13:10 |
| Anidel | Stskeeps, will be the same? :) | 13:10 |
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| w00t | Stskeeps: at least we can still call it tmo! | 13:11 |
| ShadowJK | w00t: lol | 13:11 |
| lcuk | no | 13:11 |
| moo__ | woah | 13:11 |
| lcuk | its a .com :p | 13:11 |
| moo__ | http://meego.com/ | 13:11 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: Good, I'm not the only one feeling weird about all this. | 13:11 |
| w00t | lcuk: dammit, shatter all my dreams | 13:11 |
| thresh | good night sweet prince maemo | 13:11 |
| Passeli | how do i enable core dumps in N900 ? | 13:12 |
| Anidel | w00t, tmc :P | 13:12 |
| w00t | zerojay: I think that to say you're the only one feeling weird would be an understatement, it's pretty huge in so many ways.. | 13:12 |
| villemv | what the hell am I going to do with the tattoo then?!? | 13:12 |
| lcuk | jaffa, they said at the start there are 2 channels, the intel channel and the nokia channel | 13:12 |
| villemv | have to mod it to "Mom" I guess | 13:12 |
| Anidel | villemv, Vintage tatoos are good :) | 13:12 |
| villemv | ;-) | 13:12 |
| Lantizia1 | is there as yet a way to enable host mode on the USB port? | 13:13 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Yeah, but what does that mean? If they want apps to be compatible across devices they'll want a single app developer community | 13:13 |
| lcuk | ofc | 13:13 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Which also implies changes to Extras, autobuilder, QA, ... | 13:13 |
| mece | sigh | 13:13 |
| pupnik | http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-sausage-sales-surge-as-people-use-them-for-iphone-styluses-2010-2 | 13:13 |
| tybollt | Anidel: so maemo 6 is slated to be the first megoo based OS then? | 13:14 |
| zerojay | I feel sick. | 13:14 |
| Anidel | tybollt, according to Ari's blog post.. | 13:14 |
| ifreq | stop crying. | 13:14 |
| aSIMULAwrk | interesting | 13:14 |
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| ShadowJK | Anyone else think this means next device/OS will be H2 2011? :-) | 13:14 |
| Anidel | ShadowJK, nope.. next device will be a Maemo 6 device (or Meego 1.0) | 13:15 |
| w00t | I think it's a bit early for pessimism | 13:15 |
| ShadowJK | Anidel, that was a time, not a name | 13:15 |
| *** lardman|gone is now known as lardman | 13:15 | |
| Anidel | I think the first MeeGo device will see the light in 2011, but the Maemo 6 device will come earlier | 13:15 |
| lardman | morning | 13:15 |
| tybollt | anyway | 13:16 |
| Anidel | morning lardman | 13:16 |
| pupnik | moo lardman | 13:16 |
| lardman | hi Anidel | 13:16 |
| tybollt | it was pretty much confirmed M6 ! N900 even prior to this - right? | 13:16 |
| lardman | hi pupnik | 13:16 |
| ShadowJK | This will probably lead to terrible fragmentation, I mean, not even Nokia itself could write symbian apps that worked on more than a handful of devices.... | 13:16 |
| * pupnik stabs fragmentation with a fork | 13:16 | |
| pupnik | hahahaha | 13:16 |
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| lardman | hmm, I take it there has been some news.... | 13:17 |
| Anidel | Shadikka, fragmentation? two platforms merging into one.. I don't see it as fragmentation, rather the opposite | 13:17 |
| * lardman heads to maemo.org frontpage | 13:17 | |
| Jaffa | Just realised, MeeGo is a *really* shit name. | 13:17 |
| tybollt | lardman: a bit... yeah | 13:17 |
| Anidel | lardman, yes.. meego.com | 13:17 |
| pupnik | it is Jaffa | 13:17 |
| Anidel | Maemo and Moblin merging into a single software platform supporting Intel and ARM CPUs | 13:17 |
| tybollt | Jaffa: try appending an s and see what site that is :S | 13:17 |
| lardman | ah | 13:17 |
| Anidel | and more | 13:17 |
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| Lumpio- | Will it have a gaming platform called WiiGo? | 13:17 |
| Lumpio- | In a joint effort with Nintendo | 13:17 |
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| agi | 'I've bought a Meego' sounds like you bought a friend (in spanish) | 13:18 |
| lardman | so what's happening to Maemo 6, and using Qt for the frontend, etc.? | 13:18 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Nothing, meego will be qt based. | 13:18 |
| Anidel | lardman Quim's posted a post right now on its blog http://flors.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/maemo-moblin-meego-join-us/ | 13:19 |
| lardman | ok | 13:19 |
| X-Fade | lardman: the big news here is that intel gets behind qt too. | 13:19 |
| lardman | thanks | 13:19 |
| nid0 | nokia 2nd release now starting | 13:19 |
| lardman | hmm, I drop out for a week so I can do some work and all this happens.... ;) | 13:19 |
| yerga | the architecture diagram has GTK/Clutter too | 13:19 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Just happened. | 13:19 |
| zerojay | In the end, all of this is probably a very good thing, but ugh.. so many questions. | 13:20 |
| lardman | X-Fade: ah, so perferfectly timed for my re-arrival | 13:20 |
| Jaffa | nid0: Hopefully it's the N920 running Maemo 6 with the Maemo 6 SDK beta available now and pre-release for N900 ;-) | 13:20 |
| zerojay | yerga: I think you said it best in your tweet. | 13:20 |
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| yerga | zerojay, yes, my feelings right now | 13:20 |
| w00t | zerojay: time to digest it all and start answering them I think :) | 13:20 |
| D-Iivil | X-Fade: I need to run, but can you PM me if you found something and maybe got it fixed? | 13:20 |
| yerga | zerojay, but at the end this will be a very good thing | 13:20 |
| t_s_o | i would say this is more a problem for intel then nokia, as this is the second "restart" of moblin | 13:20 |
| Lantizia1 | MeeGo isn't replacing Maemo is it? Maemo will still be seperate and continue? | 13:21 |
| Lantizia1 | MeeGo sounds like shit | 13:21 |
| t_s_o | moblin 1.x used deb, then they restarted with rpm for 2.x, and now its going qt and meego | 13:21 |
| zerojay | yerga: Yeah, I know. | 13:21 |
| nid0 | Jaffa - second release seems to just be more about Ovi services coming to more customers + devices | 13:21 |
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| lardman | hmm, Quim's blog post points to a wiki page that needs a login... | 13:21 |
| Jaffa | nid0: Yawn | 13:21 |
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| lardman | ah, need to register | 13:22 |
| t_s_o | hmm, as i think about it, intel have always been borrowing from nokia during the moblin development. they have been using hildon since 1.x for example | 13:22 |
| mece | so... moblin was already maemo for x86? | 13:23 |
| Jaffa | lardman: Fixed | 13:23 |
| sobczyk | will maemo 6 support n900? | 13:23 |
| yerga | but, well, news without source code aren't very fun | 13:24 |
| tybollt | sobczyk: far as I know - it was already determined that no it will not | 13:24 |
| mece | yerga, yeah Q2 release they said. | 13:24 |
| Lantizia1 | Please don't ruin this now... we only just got the open, free, and known-brand backed phone we have all been after - don't turn it into some crappy "ideology" alliance thing where we are forced only to use Qt and RPM | 13:24 |
| t_s_o | mece: there was a fair bit of shared code at least | 13:24 |
| thresh | rpm ftw | 13:24 |
| mece | tybolt, when was it determined? | 13:25 |
| zerojay | Lantizia1: That probably will not happen so don't worry. | 13:25 |
| tybollt | mece: no cold hard facts here, more like hearsay | 13:25 |
| tybollt | mece: IIRC genA or someone ranted about it around here some day | 13:25 |
| mece | well... they have an N900 on the front page of meego.com | 13:26 |
| tybollt | I for one don't mind QT - I do however fear (big time!) switching to rpm | 13:26 |
| lardman | ~lart virc for not showing new channels | 13:26 |
| * infobot installs PocketPC on virc's PDA for not showing new channels | 13:26 | |
| lardman | bbiam | 13:26 |
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| bleeter | ooh, merging with moblin?! | 13:26 |
| t_s_o | hmm, seems gtk+clutter will still be there, only the focus will be on qt | 13:27 |
| * frals just woke up | 13:27 | |
| bleeter | http://thenokiablog.com/2010/02/15/intel-nokia-moblin-maemo-meego/ | 13:27 |
| frals | so whats this meego stuff? | 13:27 |
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| sobczyk | despite no maemo6 qt4.6 will be available on n900? | 13:27 |
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| mece | tybollt, do we know that we are switching to rpm? | 13:27 |
| tybollt | frals: click on the links above - but do be seated and put the coffee mug ona desk in front of you before doing so :-( | 13:27 |
| mece | frals, well it's RIP maemo hello MeeGo | 13:27 |
| mece | apparently | 13:27 |
| lbt | live (now) http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm | 13:28 |
| ifreq | everyone who thinks maemo is dead please leave | 13:28 |
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| t_s_o | not sure if i like that they appear to split handheld and netbook ui frameworks, with the option for other ui as well | 13:28 |
| alterego | Heh, | 13:28 |
| ifreq | im tired to see ppl crying like ubnhc of emos | 13:28 |
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| ifreq | bunch* | 13:28 |
| bleeter | ifreq: I think it's a great move :) | 13:28 |
| tybollt | mece: right now I just feel like a teen who has seen an irish catholic minister for the first time to be honest... :( | 13:28 |
| mece | tybollt, heh | 13:28 |
| bleeter | ifreq: for BOTH platforms. way too much wheel spinning reinventing the same wheel in the various linux distros :) | 13:29 |
| alterego | ifreq: I think this is jus tthe usual frantic activity following any kind of major announcement. | 13:29 |
| lbt | "Linux Foundation hosted project" | 13:29 |
| lbt | nice | 13:29 |
| alterego | ifreq: it'll calm down in a few hours ;) | 13:29 |
| ifreq | bleeter: im happy with my phone atm.. my OS couldnt care less if some new X OS comes somedya.. if it supports my phone.. FINE. if not.. well.. time will tell :) | 13:29 |
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| lardman | lbt: hmm, wish they had subtitles | 13:29 |
| ifreq | alterego: yes it is :P | 13:29 |
| pupnik | so intel wants some freedom from microsoft? | 13:29 |
| bleeter | ifreq: I'm in Australia, n900 launch here later next month... | 13:29 |
| mece | ifreq, I definately agree | 13:29 |
| zerojay | alterego: I'll calm down when we have answers to questions. | 13:29 |
| lbt | lardman: actually from http://flors.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/maemo-moblin-meego-join-us/ | 13:29 |
| ifreq | alterego: i wouldnt just go for assumptions until something REAL is out. | 13:29 |
| lbt | zerojay: If these two megacorps could drop some of their priorities in order to reach a common ground, other players can do that too. Including you? (yes, you). | 13:29 |
| lbt | <grin> | 13:30 |
| alterego | ifreq: agreed, Nokia aren't going to pull out of maemo.org and we're not the ones doing the merging. | 13:30 |
| lardman | lbt: I just can't listen as my work PC's headset plug is knackered :) | 13:30 |
| ifreq | bleeter: going to get n900? :) great phone | 13:30 |
| lbt | quote from Quim | 13:30 |
| lbt | lardman: I think it'll be on youtube | 13:30 |
| sobczyk | qt4.6 on n900 anyone? | 13:30 |
| mece | bleeter, N900, greatest device ever! | 13:30 |
| lbt | I missed the first so I hope so | 13:30 |
| bleeter | ifreq: been waiting since linux.conf.au in Jan '09... don't want to import, void warranty | 13:30 |
| lardman | yep | 13:30 |
| t_s_o | pupnik: could be that intel see a future in smaller devices, and not seeing microsoft being able to deliver a os for that segment | 13:30 |
| MiXu- | What's your take; when will the merger of maemo and moblin be visible on the product level? :) | 13:30 |
| ifreq | bleeter: yeah :) good choise. | 13:30 |
| bleeter | ifreq, mece: have already excited local nokia care office. I'm in a small city. They're thrilled, all 3 staff hahaha | 13:30 |
| ifreq | :) | 13:31 |
| MiXu- | My guess would be 2012 at earliest... | 13:31 |
| mece | bleeter, cool :D | 13:31 |
| lbt | MiXu-: it is nice that this announce is *pre* device | 13:31 |
| ifreq | hehe | 13:31 |
| bleeter | next news I'm waiting for is a tablet device.. really need one guys | 13:31 |
| *** hyperducati has left #maemo | 13:31 | |
| inz | MiXu, some new item suggested that the first device would come out as soon as "end of 2010" | 13:31 |
| ifreq | rumours tend to grow. | 13:32 |
| alterego | So this must have been "the big news" that was referred to a couple of weeks back. | 13:32 |
| MiXu- | inz: That would be harmattan then. I doubt it. | 13:32 |
| mece | well it is pretty big news | 13:32 |
| pupnik | who here has experience with moblin? | 13:32 |
| ifreq | soon some geek posts maemo is dead and then its all over twitter facebook etc | 13:32 |
| ifreq | :) | 13:32 |
| mece | MiXu-, Harmattan should be considered MeeGo | 13:32 |
| pupnik | moblin is dead! :) | 13:33 |
| MiXu- | mece: Wow. That's surprising. | 13:33 |
| ifreq | win 3.1 iz dead!! finally! | 13:33 |
| mece | piupnik, did it ever live? | 13:33 |
| till- | so we have to join #meego or what? | 13:33 |
| ifreq | :) | 13:33 |
| mece | MiXu-, "Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance." from Jaaksi's blog | 13:33 |
| ifreq | i want to run win nt4.0 on my phone. it ran on my alpha too.. | 13:33 |
| bleeter | I guess, at least from a community point of view, getting Moblin and/or MeeGo *mostly* working on n900 would be some goal, learning experiences, practicing synergies etc. | 13:33 |
| mece | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/meego-time.html | 13:33 |
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| ifreq | till-: yeah leave this channel and join to #meego for more news. | 13:33 |
| bleeter | ifreq: I want to run solitaire.exe on my phone :( | 13:34 |
| mece | LOL | 13:34 |
| mece | bleeter, dosbox | 13:34 |
| JimiDini | hm.. so, do I correctly understand, that Maemo will become "an implementation of meego". and still will have some specific parts? will maemo.org stay as a portal for Nokia's implementation of meego? | 13:34 |
| pupnik | it looks like it will be good for maemo. except for the awful name | 13:34 |
| bleeter | mece: sssh don't make it so easy ;) | 13:34 |
| ifreq | *g* | 13:34 |
| mece | bleeter, sorry ;) | 13:34 |
| Shrik3 | bah, there goes N8x0 support... | 13:34 |
| pupnik | JimiDini: that looks correct afaict | 13:34 |
| Shrik3 | "sorry, no meego for you" | 13:34 |
| mece | oo drm free ovi music. that's nice. | 13:35 |
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| inz | MiXu-, ahh, found it: http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-and-intel-launch-meego-moblin-and-maemo-merge-1573930/ | 13:35 |
| villemv | hey, community can make n8x0 a meego platform | 13:35 |
| tybollt | Shrik3: s/N8x0/N[89]x0/ | 13:35 |
| Shapeshifter | go, meego ^^ | 13:35 |
| Shapeshifter | amigo | 13:35 |
| Shrik3 | The Nokia Way =) | 13:35 |
| mece | now where's timeless? I need some of his synic views :) | 13:35 |
| inz | MiXu-, "...while the first devices should e on sale by the end of the year." | 13:35 |
| villemv | since it's anyway "wider" platform than, say, fremantly | 13:36 |
| villemv | le | 13:36 |
| lbt | ooh, paypal on meego | 13:36 |
| mece | quite | 13:36 |
| lbt | hence drm on the new phone | 13:36 |
| bigbrovar | hmm so what ever happed to the 4 step plan of maemo becoming a consumer ready device. | 13:36 |
| lbt | so much for having a non-drm kernel... | 13:36 |
| tybollt | lbt: what do you mean paypal? it's a web service - no? | 13:36 |
| lbt | http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm | 13:37 |
| bigbrovar | Nokia says we would see a meego device 2nd quater this year | 13:37 |
| lbt | listening and guessing | 13:37 |
| MiXu- | Awesome. :) | 13:37 |
| * lbt goes to buy nokia shares | 13:37 | |
| nid0 | they said we'd see the first release of the os 2nd quarter, not the first devices running it | 13:37 |
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| MiXu- | bigbrovar: Where does it say that? | 13:37 |
| MiXu- | url? | 13:37 |
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| lardman | hmm, I thought I saw it say device too | 13:38 |
| bigbrovar | MiXu-: from this tweet https://twitter.com/PeterMaemo/status/9136010539 | 13:38 |
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| MiXu- | It's release, not device. | 13:38 |
| lardman | but no, is talking about the sw release: http://meego.com/about/faq | 13:38 |
| bigbrovar | MiXu-: Peter is heading marketing in Maemo Devices@Nokia. Hope to engage those that like Maemo UX and philosophy. | 13:39 |
| bigbrovar | MiXu-: or what use to be Maemo Devices :p | 13:39 |
| mece | maemo and meego trending on twitter... | 13:39 |
| Hukka | Haha, just on the keynote "on my ma- meego" :) | 13:39 |
| mece | Hukka, he said on maemo, on meego, on symbian IMO. Didn't sound like a mistake | 13:41 |
| bigbrovar | MiXu-: true you are right | 13:41 |
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| Shapeshifter | http://meego.com/about/overview/big-merge-message-intel-and-nokia qgil makes an appearance ;) | 13:42 |
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| lardman | hmm, again /me grumbles about the lack of subtitles on online video | 13:43 |
| X-Fade | lardman: the finlish is no that bad? | 13:44 |
| lardman | X-Fade: my 3.5mm socket is broken | 13:44 |
| Lantizia1 | Could I just say I don't like Qt all that much, or RPM based distros.... Have I bought a product with a short shelf life here? | 13:44 |
| lardman | so I have to lipread or all of the office can hear them | 13:44 |
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| villemv | has the rpm thing been confirmed somewhere? | 13:45 |
| range | Lantizia1: Maemo 6 would have been Qt anyway - and which packaging system is used shouldn't matter at all. | 13:45 |
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| Shapeshifter | Lantizia1: of course, it's a computer gadget. it's been outdated the moment it was announced | 13:46 |
| mikhas | Lantizia1, it's not always the better concept that wins ... | 13:47 |
| bigbrovar | lardman: the development of moblin is based on fedora ( or a fork of it) but moblin as been ported to ubuntu which uses debs | 13:47 |
| mairas | villemv, at least on the #meego channel | 13:47 |
| * tybollt ... betamax vhs, anyone? | 13:47 | |
| mece | villemv, I don't think so. recent moblin has used rpm apparently, so that's why i fuess. | 13:47 |
| Shapeshifter | rpm based? Will meego use rpm? | 13:47 |
| mece | guess | 13:47 |
| _berto_ | yes | 13:48 |
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| _berto_ | «dirkhh: MeeGo will be rpm based» | 13:48 |
| Shapeshifter | mh. -.- | 13:48 |
| * tybollt cringes | 13:48 | |
| mairas | villemv, dirkhh (an Intel employee) did confirm on the #meego channel that Meego WILL be based on rpm | 13:48 |
| Shapeshifter | they should use pacman. (obviously) | 13:48 |
| Hukka | What? | 13:49 |
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| Hukka | mairas: Just right now on #meego they said no | 13:49 |
| zerojay | Almost feels like we had all the work and all the positives and now we're getting saddled with THOSE guys as a reward. lol | 13:49 |
| lbt | _berto_: when/where did dirkhh say that ? | 13:49 |
| zerojay | And now they're trying to change shit on us. | 13:49 |
| _berto_ | lbt: #meego @ freenode | 13:49 |
| villemv | well, rpm is livable I guess | 13:49 |
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| Jaffa | zerojay: But WHAT ABOUT THE MASCOT?! | 13:50 |
| zerojay | Jaffa: It's gonna be that kid Jake from Family Guy. | 13:50 |
| lbt | _berto_: before I joined | 13:50 |
| mairas | Hukka, you mis-interpreted: he said it's not based on Fedora (well, Moblin was forked from it a long time ago, so it's a matter of taste) but it IS based on rpm | 13:50 |
| VRe | yet an another platform change.. | 13:50 |
| Jaffa | zerojay: lol | 13:50 |
| zerojay | New Meego mascot: http://johnferndesign.com/familyGuySite/fg_wallpapers/1280x960_jakeTucker.jpg | 13:50 |
| frals | lol zerojay | 13:51 |
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| mece | from #meego: (1:50:54 PM) dirkhh: MeeGo is indeed rpm based | 13:51 |
| thresh | rpm rules | 13:52 |
| range | Everybody who starts whining because of the packaging system which is used: Go out and buy an OS X machine. After that be happy, that there is packaging at all. | 13:52 |
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| Lumpio- | ...or Windows | 13:52 |
| zerojay | I don't really care about packaging, but... well... have moblin devices been successful at all? I don't know of anything, but I could be wrong. | 13:53 |
| range | zerojay: Have there been any? | 13:53 |
| Lantizia1 | Is MeeGo just going to be a set of "ideals" and "standards" like the LSB but for embedded shit... that Maemo 6 will adhear to? Or an actual OS to replace the Maemo project entirely? | 13:53 |
| zerojay | I don't think so. | 13:53 |
| lbt | zerojay: moblin is (AFAIK) a fork from fedora | 13:53 |
| range | I've tried it, but not on a touch screeen device. | 13:53 |
| lbt | from that stable at least | 13:53 |
| zerojay | Whereas Maemo has had some successes... so why are we bending to shit like "we're going RPM?" | 13:53 |
| mairas | zerojay, it's not really just about Moblin, it's Nokia and Intel putting their combined effort in one basket | 13:54 |
| Lantizia1 | screw em | 13:54 |
| range | Well, moblin seems to be going Qt, that's a bit more of a bend :) | 13:54 |
| tybollt | qt \o/ | 13:54 |
| Hukka | And really, Intel has probably put a lot more resources to Moblin than Nokia ever to Maemo | 13:54 |
| Lantizia1 | but Maemo is more of a success | 13:54 |
| Lantizia1 | keep it seperate! | 13:54 |
| lbt | Lantizia1: you can make a fork :) | 13:55 |
| * Lantizia1 starts a petition | 13:55 | |
| range | And you get a meego tablet right next to your meego phone. Though the name really is shitty. | 13:55 |
| * tybollt starts a petition against lnatizials petition | 13:55 | |
| cehteh | mhm | 13:55 |
| * mece starts a petition against petitions | 13:56 | |
| X-Fade | I wonder if it still makes sense to run maemo.org elections if the governance will change anyway. | 13:57 |
| Lantizia1 | don't we have Maemo has a seperate community to prevent this kind of shit? | 13:57 |
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| _berto_ | "LeeGo would have been better. 'Yours parts of the platform'" | 13:57 |
| mece | aahaha | 13:58 |
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| VRe | Big Boss: "We are going to combine with moblin and dump our platform, for 6th time was it? Make it happen" | 13:58 |
| Khertan | MeeGoo what s an horrible name ! | 13:58 |
| range | Does meego include ofono? | 13:58 |
| Khertan | Hi everybody ! | 13:58 |
| tybollt | <crosspost> so rather than fusing maemo and moblin... meego will be moblin w/ small parts of maemo sprinkled on top? </crosspost> | 13:59 |
| Khertan | and qt qt qt qt qt qt ... burk | 13:59 |
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| ensi | does the hildon desktop window that contains the applications grid have a name? | 14:00 |
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| lbt | just fyi #meego is alive... | 14:01 |
| inz | lbt, a bit too alive, i say ;) | 14:01 |
| lbt | heh | 14:01 |
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| inz | ensi, desktop ;) | 14:01 |
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| lcuk | can someone wake marius up and see if he can get infobot into #meego | 14:02 |
| inz | lcuk, so you can ~lart people? | 14:02 |
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| lcuk | lol | 14:02 |
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| kkito | hi | 14:02 |
| Necc | hy | 14:03 |
| kkito | Do You know if there is any atuomake variable that points to the project root? | 14:03 |
| Necc | crowd here | 14:03 |
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| lbt | kkito: Necc: just fyi #meego is alive... | 14:04 |
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| ensi | inz: hmm i'm trying to figure out how to get a list of running applications (those ones that have a visible window). any ides? | 14:04 |
| slonopotamus | and of course maemo-moblin merge will happen after maemo 6? :) | 14:04 |
| ensi | been looking at the output of wxinfo but dunno hmm | 14:04 |
| Necc | i just read about it, but it not exist yet as end-user product | 14:04 |
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| inz | ensi, ah, that view, I got you wrong... no idea, sorry :( | 14:06 |
| mece | maemo 6 should be considered a meego instance | 14:06 |
| cehteh | Open MeeGo ... wait for merging openmoko :P | 14:06 |
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| * cehteh runs | 14:06 | |
| inz | ensi, I think it should work the same way as any other X windowing though | 14:06 |
| villemv | you guys know you can talk about meego on #meego? | 14:06 |
| ensi | inz: heh that doesn't help much much cause i dont know much about X windowing :) | 14:06 |
| inz | ensi, emphasis on the word "should" though | 14:06 |
| inz | ensi, me neither =) | 14:06 |
| adeus | if there's an icccm compliant manager they're listed in the root window | 14:07 |
| adeus | xprop -root | 14:08 |
| adeus | look at _NET_CLIENT_LIST_STACKING | 14:08 |
| t_s_o | is the forum getting a bit stressed? | 14:08 |
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| ensi | adeus: yeah that gives me a shitload of window ids | 14:09 |
| adeus | theny you have a shitload of windows :) | 14:09 |
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| ensi | i only have like 5 apps running, and i'm only interested in the top level windows of these applications | 14:09 |
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| _berto_ | ensi: gdk_screen_get_toplevel_windows () ? | 14:10 |
| adeus | you can also query for the _NET_WM_PID atom for their pids | 14:10 |
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| ensi | _berto_: thanks sounds good at least :) | 14:10 |
| adeus | I'm guessing that will be the same list | 14:11 |
| adeus | perhaps limited to the main window per process | 14:12 |
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| adeus | you can also look at the WM_STATE info | 14:14 |
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| ensi | adeus: with xprop per window id? | 14:15 |
| adeus | for example | 14:15 |
| adeus | xwininfo -root -tree | 14:15 |
| adeus | for a generic picture | 14:15 |
| ensi | yeah | 14:16 |
| Ken-Young | does anyone know how to use hildon_button_set_value to set the initial value for a *multicolumn* picker button? | 14:16 |
| Ken-Young | Or if that is even possible? | 14:17 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: ping | 14:20 |
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| * RST38h checks MWC news and laughs satanically | 14:21 | |
| RST38h | ALL YOUR BASE... | 14:21 |
| frals | tmo seems slow :< | 14:21 |
| derf | Too soon. | 14:21 |
| guysoft422 | Whats the relation of LiMo and Moblin?? | 14:22 |
| lardman | too many acronyms for me to keep up with | 14:23 |
| RST38h | no relation | 14:23 |
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| * lardman wonders if LiMo is similar to LiPo | 14:23 | |
| glass | guysoft422: ignore untill devices released ;) | 14:23 |
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| Corsac | wtf? | 14:23 |
| guysoft422 | glass, strange.. our israeli coverage say that "Maemo and LiMo are merging" are they idiots? | 14:23 |
| tybollt | lardman: Plenty of lipo in this here gut... | 14:23 |
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| glass | some guys have been pulling money from limo&moblin for a decade now? | 14:24 |
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| glass | they gotta do something | 14:24 |
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| glass | guysoft422: look at companies behind limo,moblin and other such alliances | 14:24 |
| guysoft422 | the writer is the representative of Nokia in Israel... | 14:24 |
| lardman | tybollt: don't drink any water or you're liable to explode ;) | 14:24 |
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| glass | guysoft422: doesn't matter who the writer is | 14:25 |
| RST38h | guysoft: Yes, they are idiots. | 14:25 |
| guysoft422 | glass, the question is if that is a valid statement. Is it like saying Debian and Ubuntu? | 14:25 |
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| glass | guysoft422: could he answer the question what's the difference between limo and debian? probably nhot | 14:25 |
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| guysoft422 | glass, well if so, i sould send them an e-mail to correct it! | 14:26 |
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| glass | guysoft422: you'd be sending mails every week ;) | 14:26 |
| glass | if it's shitty journalism, don't read the site | 14:26 |
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| glass | if you read it, they get viewers and win | 14:26 |
| guysoft422 | glass, its the biggest internet news site in Israel, and yes, they are morons, when they covered our OLPC pilot they said i was from "Peres center for peace" Instead of "open source community" | 14:27 |
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| glass | guysoft422: lol | 14:28 |
| glass | guysoft422: do they also sensor pictures of women?-D | 14:28 |
| lbt | from mece: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/meego-time.html "Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance." | 14:28 |
| glass | form cabinet pics | 14:28 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: pong | 14:29 |
| guysoft422 | glass, believe me i tried looking the other way. but its useful to keep an eye at what the average idiot hears in computers. if people ask me about something stupid written there, at least i know what on earth they want from me, and what they are reading | 14:29 |
| glass | guysoft422: don't feel too bad. finnish it-news magazines suck seriously | 14:29 |
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| guysoft422 | glass, sometimes, depends how much there is to sensor :) | 14:30 |
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| BluesLee | meego sounds awful, really | 14:32 |
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| andrei1089 | hi, is there any problem with autobuilder? I've uploaded a package a few hours ago, it was built successfully but was not imported | 14:37 |
| lardman | I guess it will mean that those cheap Chinese devices will at least be able to have the same base system as the Nokia devices, which can't be a bad thing | 14:38 |
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| sobczyk | is it possible to limit data transfer to wifi only (without turning off 3g)? | 14:48 |
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| sobczyk | on maemo5/n900 | 14:48 |
| tybollt | sobczyk: yes of course | 14:48 |
| thorbjorn | Is MeeGo supposed to come in place of Maemo 6 or is that for later? | 14:49 |
| sobczyk | tybollt, is it simple operation? I'm going to korea and will be wardriving for voip :) I don't want to pay high bill for roaming | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | sobczyk: you simply set to 'always ask' | 14:50 |
| BluesLee | lardman: cooperations like this one seem to be neccessary when i look at the droid companies out there | 14:50 |
| thorbjorn | Probably wrong channel. | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | sobczyk: and it will never connect over gsm without asking | 14:50 |
| sobczyk | wow great, big plus over android | 14:50 |
| bergie | thorbjorn: Jaaksi's blog said "Maemo 6 will be an instance of MeeGo" | 14:51 |
| tybollt | sobczyk: yeah it is in settings | 14:51 |
| thorbjorn | bergie: Ah, great. | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a major problem for end-user experience. | 14:51 |
| timeless | user experience? | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | For that reason I have doubts that it'll ever upgrade OTA on n900 | 14:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | timeless: AIUI - the UI will - totally - change. Your phone will - over one day - completely change behaviour. | 14:52 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: huh what does ota updating has to do w/ that?= | 14:52 |
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| Ceron^ | wtf !! | 14:52 |
| Ceron^ | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1591915/intel-nokia-launch-meego | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Ceron^: we noticed. | 14:53 |
| Ceron^ | the end of maemo :\? | 14:53 |
| BluesLee | the end of teh world, hehe:-) | 14:53 |
| Ceron^ | im rather disapointed :( | 14:53 |
| thresh | yes good night sweet maemo | 14:53 |
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| frals | i have a feeling the next community council is gonna have their hands full | 14:54 |
| Lynoure | Ceron^: why disappointed? Or, what causes that feeling? Something changing clearly for worse? | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: I mean - I doubt that you'll see meego/maemo 6 - updated onto the n900 as OTA. Forcibly switching users would be nsane. | 14:54 |
| Ceron^ | yeh :( | 14:55 |
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| Ceron^ | this clearly sucks | 14:55 |
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| Shrik3 | and it's 100% certain that meego won't get released for N8x0 | 14:55 |
| Lynoure | Ceron^: so, what is changing clearly for worse? | 14:55 |
| Shapeshifter | So I'm making my first deb package. I'm following the wiki guide, finished writing the changelog, and now I want to run dpkg-buildpackage -sa -rfakeroot -k<my@email.address> but this gives me: "bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'" | 14:56 |
| Shrik3 | so there goes that | 14:56 |
| Shapeshifter | What's this supposed to mean. I don't have any bash scripts in my own source. | 14:56 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: don't worry mate | 14:56 |
| Ceron^ | harder to port apps :( | 14:56 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: DO worry about getting any further support for your current device ... at all | 14:56 |
| timeless | shapeshifter: you need to quote less-th" and greater-than | 14:56 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless: ahh, thanks | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: I'm unsure. I would suspect that tehre is very likely to be a n900 release of meego | 14:57 |
| timeless | -k "..." | 14:57 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless: yep yep | 14:57 |
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| tybollt | SpeedEvil: based on what? | 14:57 |
| timeless | shapeshifer: if the instructions are in a wiki, please fix | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: I just doubt it would ever make sense for nokia not to maintain some level of support for maemo. | 14:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | timeless: yep | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: my understanding of the market only. And where everythings at. I could be completly wrong. | 14:57 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: last I heard was genA ranting around here about M6 likely not comming to the device. | 14:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | timeless: well, is it supposed to be -k my@address.com or -k "<my@address.com>". I mean, should the < > be part of the -k parameter? | 14:58 |
| Ceron^ | developers will stop working on maemo5 now :\ | 14:58 |
| Ceron^ | and wait for that damn meego | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: I guess announces may happen in the next few days. Or maybe not. | 14:58 |
| Stskeeps | Ceron^: the bet was always -develop for qt- | 14:59 |
| Shapeshifter | Ceron^: they didn't stop developing for maemo5 knowing that maemo6 was coming up fast | 14:59 |
| Ceron^ | seriously, il hafto sell this phone fast before it looses all its worth | 14:59 |
| Ceron^ | soon development goes down to 0 | 14:59 |
| nid0 | £10 | 14:59 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: put your money where you mouth is... I'll wager EUR 100 that is not the case... w/in a month there'll be nothing for the device :) | 14:59 |
| Ceron^ | and nokia didnt even relase a working ovistore yet | 14:59 |
| Ceron^ | release | 14:59 |
| tybollt | Ceron^: my point exactly | 15:00 |
| Hukka | Ceron^: 20EUR | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: 100 euro would ATM put me deeply into the red - so no. | 15:00 |
| Ceron^ | im seriously angry now :\ | 15:00 |
| Hukka | (I think that's more than ten quid even with Greece doing it's thing :) | 15:00 |
| tybollt | maemo was never even considered an ovi device is my best guess. | 15:00 |
| Ceron^ | lol? | 15:00 |
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| Ceron^ | nokia just playd us all really good | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | nah | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | they're actually expanding the playing field | 15:01 |
| Ceron^ | how so? | 15:01 |
| Ceron^ | they are making the supporters of maemo5 who just bought a new phone, found out that there operative system on the phone is already defunc. | 15:02 |
| cehteh | heh .. i ever saied that maemos most weakness is that it is a single-vendor platform | 15:02 |
| cehteh | meego opens this .. more devices to choose from different vendors | 15:02 |
| cehteh | of course there will be unfortunate compromises | 15:03 |
| tybollt | what other devices? | 15:03 |
| cehteh | in future | 15:03 |
| Ceron^ | yeh tell me? | 15:03 |
| Ceron^ | what other? | 15:03 |
| tybollt | all the ... intel mobile phones/netbooks? ehr? | 15:03 |
| Ceron^ | Intel netbook with meego | 15:03 |
| Ceron^ | almost like Apple IPad | 15:03 |
| * tybollt goes *POP* like a lemming | 15:03 | |
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| Ceron^ | the reason i supported maemo and bought a n900 was because i predicted it the os would stay alive for sometime :\ | 15:04 |
| Hukka | Ceron^: C'mon, sell the phone already and go drink with the money, and not just rant | 15:04 |
| Ceron^ | clearly now nokia is pushing maemo down the drain :( | 15:04 |
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| Hukka | Ceron^: Or if you want to stick around, then don't keep saying there's no point | 15:04 |
| ifreq | and who says that Ceron^ | 15:04 |
| thorbjorn | Ceron^: Hmm, that's a strange conclusion. | 15:04 |
| ifreq | stop being an emo | 15:04 |
| cehteh | Ceron^: this merger doesnt mean that the os dies | 15:04 |
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| ifreq | or change the channel pls | 15:04 |
| Hukka | Personally I've no inclination to stop deving for Fremantle | 15:04 |
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| thresh | but you have to! | 15:05 |
| thresh | nokia tells you not to! | 15:05 |
| Hukka | I know that it will work with Harmattan too, and probably be easy to port to whatever is next, since it's Qt | 15:05 |
| thresh | well, it doesnt. but it's IRC, i can tell whatever i want. | 15:05 |
| tybollt | emo's aside - the issue is still - and I don't see any of your wide-mouths answering that... Will meego be moblin w/ a little bit of maemo sprinkled on top or will it be a full on fusion between the two? | 15:05 |
| timeless | thresh "say", not "tell" | 15:05 |
| thresh | thanks | 15:06 |
| Hukka | tybollt: How should we know, after three hours? Ask again in two weeks, when we have the source | 15:06 |
| timeless | tybollt: it sounds like the ui will be mostly maemo6 | 15:06 |
| Ceron^ | moblin will be something like android :l probally | 15:06 |
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| timeless | and some lower level architecture will be mostly meego | 15:06 |
| pillar_ | tomorrow is a q&a for meego at twitter | 15:06 |
| Shapeshifter | tybollt: it says on the page that the underlying stuff will be moblin | 15:06 |
| Shapeshifter | so, that answers the question | 15:06 |
| Shapeshifter | however you rephrase it | 15:06 |
| Hukka | Ceron^: Of course it will. It will use JAva, that isnt' JAva... wait ummm. I mean it will have it's off-tree kernel... no, not that either... umm... | 15:07 |
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| cehteh | which isnt that bad moblin is linux kernel with gnu userland too .. maybe even less propietary things than maemo has already | 15:08 |
| cehteh | and not a java vm like android | 15:08 |
| tybollt | Shapeshifter: ack, but I want this from !webpage, I'd love for a nookla to elaborate on that :) | 15:08 |
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| * tybollt pours timesless a drink :) | 15:08 | |
| * timeless fines tybollt for an excess s | 15:09 | |
| * tybollt apologies | 15:09 | |
| inz | timesless looks like some dead bird: *< | 15:09 |
| timeless | hi inz, in town? | 15:09 |
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| inz | timeless, this time in Tampere, which you might even concider a town, although just about to leave | 15:10 |
| ifreq | *g* | 15:10 |
| tybollt | timeless: Reporting a bug that has to do w/ flash, will it be a no brainer WONTFIX or will it be looked at? | 15:10 |
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| inz | timeless, almost came to Hell(sinki) last friday, but TelCo'd instead | 15:11 |
| Shapeshifter | everything's gonna be awesome. Anyway, dpkg-buildpackage built my package, and I was able to install it on my n900 and the app runs. However, I'm using a couple of images in my app, which I naturally place in /usr/share/iculounge. (e.g. in my Makefile I have 'cp open.png /usr/share/iculounge', maybe I should make that 'install -Dm644 ...') but this stuff is missing, and I looked into the .deb file and its missing there as well. | 15:11 |
| Shapeshifter | How do I need to do this correctly? | 15:11 |
| Lantizia1 | Moblin can get screwed, do not discontinue Maemo - please | 15:11 |
| thresh | ok, i would not | 15:12 |
| ifreq | Lantizia1: ok we wont | 15:12 |
| Lantizia1 | sarcasm? :) | 15:12 |
| ifreq | guess | 15:12 |
| Lantizia1 | yes | 15:12 |
| thresh | bazinga | 15:12 |
| Lantizia1 | I'm still unclear if this does or doesn't mean the end of Maemo | 15:13 |
| timeless | lantizia1: devs have no control over managers | 15:13 |
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| timeless | or management | 15:13 |
| Lantizia1 | Does it mean the end of maemo? | 15:13 |
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| Lynoure | Lantizia1: depends on what you mean by "the end" | 15:13 |
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| Lantizia1 | i.e. a seperate distribution based on debian called Maemo | 15:14 |
| Lynoure | I assume. | 15:14 |
| timeless | maemo is an evolving ecosystem | 15:14 |
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| inz | thresh, :D | 15:14 |
| Lantizia1 | thats what I mean | 15:14 |
| ifreq | end is near!! | 15:14 |
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| thresh | WE ALL GONA DIE | 15:14 |
| timeless | each release of maemo has been fairly different from its predecessor | 15:14 |
| thresh | oups i missed one N | 15:14 |
| cehteh | panic is near :P | 15:14 |
| Shapeshifter | Lantizia1: relax. | 15:14 |
| inz | Die? [yn] | 15:14 |
| timeless | note that maemo was never a distribution | 15:14 |
| Lynoure | MeeGo is rpm based, right? that's what irks me, but oh well :) | 15:14 |
| timeless | Mer is | 15:14 |
| timeless | lynoure: i believe so | 15:14 |
| Lantizia1 | Maemo is as much as a distrubtion as Mer | 15:15 |
| inz | Lynoure, according to #meego, yes | 15:15 |
| thresh | i wonder why people are against rpm | 15:15 |
| Lantizia1 | it's shit | 15:15 |
| thresh | nothing really bad with it | 15:15 |
| timeless | thresh: because NIH | 15:15 |
| * ifreq pets hes n900.. there there i still love you | 15:15 | |
| thresh | yeah, many maintainers cant write proper spec files, but it's not a tool issue | 15:15 |
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| jokeer89 | hi | 15:15 |
| jokeer89 | anyone use symbian? | 15:15 |
| thresh | we all do here. | 15:15 |
| alterego | Hah | 15:16 |
| jokeer89 | only maemo? | 15:16 |
| Lynoure | thresh: preferences. | 15:16 |
| Lantizia1 | Come someone _please_ clarify... does this mean the end of a debian based distribution continuing in the future? (i.e. what we know of as Maemo) | 15:16 |
| tybollt | do we | 15:16 |
| furunk3l | jokeer89, i did. but now i am in pleasureland | 15:16 |
| Stskeeps | Lantizia1: there'll still be fremantle afterlife. | 15:16 |
| tybollt | Lantizia1: yes it does | 15:16 |
| Lantizia1 | I don't want an afterlife! | 15:16 |
| jokeer89 | furunk3l can you help me? | 15:16 |
| Shrik3 | no one really uses symbian, people just suffer it, it's like a disease | 15:16 |
| furunk3l | jokeer89, i dont know | 15:17 |
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| inz | At least rpm gives nice progress bar on command line when installing packages =) | 15:17 |
| Shapeshifter | any hints on my /usr/share problem? | 15:17 |
| Lynoure | thresh: Nothing wrong with rpm, as such, but I'm otherwise a debian kind of girl, would prefer similar packaging instead of having to deal with two (and alien is not sufficient as a solution) | 15:17 |
| furunk3l | jokeer89, that depends on your issues ;) | 15:17 |
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| jokeer89 | its easy | 15:17 |
| thresh | okay | 15:17 |
| Lantizia1 | fuck this think I'll sell my N900 | 15:17 |
| * tybollt envisions nothing more on the n900, perhaps a bug fix update - feature freeze. then new device Q2 this tear w/ dinGOO os. | 15:17 | |
| * thresh uses both | 15:17 | |
| jokeer89 | i want to programming a notes for symbian | 15:17 |
| Lantizia1 | it's dead already | 15:17 |
| jokeer89 | what is the best language? | 15:17 |
| jokeer89 | i can do this with python? | 15:17 |
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| BluesLee | jokeer89: chinese? | 15:17 |
| tybollt | jokeer89: elisp | 15:17 |
| jokeer89 | spanish | 15:17 |
| MiXu- | What's the big deal about rpm? | 15:17 |
| Lantizia1 | it's shit | 15:18 |
| MiXu- | It's just another packaging system. They make it work and you won't have to worry about it. | 15:18 |
| adeus | rpm always reminds me of a classic bug report https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=119185 | 15:18 |
| povbot` | Bug 119185: was not found. | 15:18 |
| thresh | http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture looks interesting | 15:18 |
| adeus | a fun read if you're reaallly bored :) | 15:18 |
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| Lantizia1 | exactly adeus | 15:18 |
| jokeer89 | this is waht i want to do: | 15:18 |
| jokeer89 | http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193098 | 15:18 |
| bigon | Lantizia1: because rpm are way much slower than deb | 15:18 |
| Lantizia1 | the whole rpm system is whoefully not as advanced as deb | 15:19 |
| lizardo | jokeer89: for Python for Symbian, better ask on #symbian ;) | 15:19 |
| jokeer89 | but anyoones is online | 15:19 |
| jokeer89 | ok | 15:19 |
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| Lantizia1 | and debian has ruled on embedded systems for years - why on earth switch now? | 15:19 |
| timeless | lizardo: funny, #symbian is a ghosttown | 15:19 |
| furunk3l | sorry jokeer89, no can do | 15:19 |
| jokeer89 | yes.. | 15:19 |
| MiXu- | I wouldn't touch symbian with a long stick if I had the choice. | 15:20 |
| lizardo | timeless: yes, it has always been a lot less popular then #maemo and now #meebo ;) | 15:20 |
| jokeer89 | but what mobiles the people have on this channel? | 15:20 |
| * bigon doesn't remember with who he talks about syncevolution and ipv6 on friday :( | 15:20 | |
| jokeer89 | n900? | 15:20 |
| MiXu- | Yup | 15:20 |
| Lynoure | bigon: grep the logs, if you have any? | 15:20 |
| Netrum | i quite enjoyed my 5800. however the n900 is far superior :) | 15:20 |
| lizardo | timeless: but I've seen a couple of PyS60 related questions answered there (but not many, unfortunately) | 15:20 |
| timeless | jokeer89: i'm chatting from an n900 | 15:20 |
| jokeer89 | 5800 its symbian | 15:20 |
| jokeer89 | i have n85 and its symbian lol | 15:21 |
| timeless | lizardo: really? wow | 15:21 |
| timeless | jokeer89: "it's" | 15:21 |
| jokeer89 | it's | 15:21 |
| jokeer89 | can i create a db using python ? | 15:21 |
| Netrum | timeless: wich irc client do you use? | 15:22 |
| timeless | ircii i think | 15:22 |
| timeless | it's in a remote screen session | 15:22 |
| Lynoure | jokeer89: create = code from scratch? why? or create = create in mysql/postgres/sqlite? yes. | 15:22 |
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| Hukka | timeless: Flash from the back :) | 15:22 |
| jokeer89 | create in the phone | 15:23 |
| jokeer89 | not on a online server | 15:23 |
| aquatix | timeless: yep, ircII :) | 15:23 |
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| jokeer89 | create a new aplication and a db for the aplication on the phone | 15:23 |
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| Lynoure | jokeer89: that's a yes. You can probably even run mysql or postgres on N900... sqlite certainly :) | 15:24 |
| cehteh | ... maybe intel has faster servers than nokia, that would be an advantage :P | 15:24 |
| timeless | i must say, meego's sire is a lot more professional than symbian's | 15:24 |
| timeless | s/sire/site/ | 15:24 |
| infobot | timeless meant: i must say, meego's site is a lot more professional than symbian's | 15:24 |
| jokeer89 | i have symbian | 15:24 |
| cehteh | the unreliability of the nokia servers is close to spectacular | 15:24 |
| jokeer89 | one person says me: it is possible to create you own database using e32dbm, e32db or pickle module (just to cite some alternatives). | 15:25 |
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| bigon | satmd: did you investigate the syncevolution and ipv6 problem further? | 15:25 |
| lizardo | jokeer89: try joining #pys60 | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Lynoure: fennec already uses sqlite | 15:25 |
| jokeer89 | thanks libben | 15:25 |
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| lizardo | jokeer89: PyS60 == Python running on Symbian | 15:26 |
| jokeer89 | is it posible to install maemo on n85? | 15:26 |
| jokeer89 | yes i know. | 15:26 |
| Lynoure | SpeedEvil: yes. I said "certainly" | 15:26 |
| lizardo | jokeer89: Maemo is for Nokia internet tablets, i.e. N770 , N800, N810, N900 | 15:26 |
| Lynoure | SpeedEvil: even my own project uses sqlite. | 15:26 |
| jokeer89 | ok for rich people heh | 15:27 |
| Hukka | jokeer89: Python should have sqlite support builtint. Not sure if Symbian has stripped it, though. | 15:27 |
| jokeer89 | i document about this | 15:27 |
| Netrum | i really need to get around and get me a dataplan with my mobileprovider... | 15:27 |
| jokeer89 | i want only to create a new notes apliccation for syncrhonize on a webserver page that i create | 15:27 |
| jokeer89 | seems easy? | 15:28 |
| Lynoure | jokeer89: depends on the details. Just get started :) | 15:28 |
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| jokeer89 | thanks people | 15:29 |
| jokeer89 | i go to pys60 and symbian channels but seems dead channels | 15:29 |
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| lizardo | jokeer89: read the topic there ... "just ask your question and wait" | 15:29 |
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| satmd | bigon: no, didn't | 15:30 |
| jokeer89 | ok | 15:30 |
| jokeer89 | i see that pys60 have sqlite | 15:30 |
| Hukka | Then use that, don't roll your own. It's better | 15:30 |
| jokeer89 | good hehe | 15:31 |
| jokeer89 | i go to shcool | 15:31 |
| jokeer89 | thankss | 15:31 |
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| jokeer89 | but python is the best way? | 15:32 |
| jokeer89 | or java or symbian c++ | 15:32 |
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| Lynoure | jokeer89: best is the enemy of good... I tend to get into analysis paralysis with 'best'. Does it need to be the best way? | 15:32 |
| villemv | symbian c++ is dead now | 15:32 |
| Hukka | jokeer89: Overall, I'd say yes. But I don't know on symbian | 15:33 |
| villemv | steer clear | 15:33 |
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| Hukka | jokeer89: Seems like this is a new thing to you, PYthon is generally easier to learn | 15:33 |
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| jokeer89 | yes its new for me programming with phone's | 15:33 |
| jokeer89 | i read about python is easy | 15:33 |
| jokeer89 | and i do some example and its very easy the language | 15:33 |
| jokeer89 | and shorter | 15:33 |
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| jokeer89 | but i dont know if have limitations | 15:34 |
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| Hukka | Go and find out | 15:34 |
| Lynoure | jokeer89: it's very versatile. but can be slow in some uses. Yours does not sound like such a use. | 15:34 |
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| Hukka | The biggest problems will be the possible limitations on PyS60 compared to "full" Python. I don't know what they are, if there are any | 15:35 |
| Netrum | a few years ago i told myself never get too involved with computer's and the likes again... now the n900 made me want to learn programing again. | 15:35 |
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| Netrum | i take it i should focus on qt for now ? learn that then learn something else later? | 15:36 |
| jokeer89 | Lynoure what? python is no good for what i want to do | 15:36 |
| Shapeshifter | How can I refresh the icon cache? When I install a new app, it usually happens that there's just a blue square as the icon. After a while, it shows the correct icon. Can I do this manually? | 15:36 |
| Shapeshifter | need to check if my icon is working | 15:36 |
| Hukka | jokeer89: She's saying you don't need speed | 15:36 |
| alterego | jokeer89: she said it'd be fine. | 15:36 |
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| Hukka | jokeer89: So it's fine. Now go and try things. We have spoken. | 15:36 |
| jokeer89 | ok xdd sorry my enlgish | 15:36 |
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| alterego | And not knowing what you're talking about, I'd say learning and developing in python is probably the best solution for you rioght now anyway. | 15:37 |
| jokeer89 | i go tomorrow! | 15:37 |
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| Hukka | Shapeshifter: Hm, what about adding a shortcut to desktop? | 15:37 |
| Lynoure | Hukka: thanks for interpreting. :) | 15:37 |
| |R | Holy shit MeeGo (just woke up, sorry :P) | 15:37 |
| Hukka | Shapeshifter: I think that rechecks the icon, since it needs a different size than the app menu | 15:37 |
| Shapeshifter | Hukka: did that. It doesn't update the icons for me | 15:37 |
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| Hukka | |R: /j #meego | 15:38 |
| Hukka | Shapeshifter: Reboot... Sorry, don't know | 15:38 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah rebooting works :P | 15:38 |
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| |R | oh :) | 15:38 |
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| iPeter- | Hi, is there any way to get ">" or "<" on Nokia N900 (tried to google, but no answer" | 15:39 |
| iPeter- | )* | 15:39 |
| Hukka | iPeter-: You mean on xterm, or what? | 15:39 |
| iPeter- | On converstations (sms etc) | 15:39 |
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| Shapeshifter | iPeter-: in my layout, --> + strg + pick < > on the onscreen keyboard, works | 15:39 |
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| nid0 | enable onscreen keyboard is the solution I found | 15:40 |
| Hukka | iPeter-: Did you try the symbols menu? | 15:40 |
| cehteh | or self-define some key combos | 15:40 |
| iPeter- | Hukka: Thanks. I have been thinking what is that "Sym" button, there it was. Thank you. | 15:40 |
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| Hukka | cehteh, nid0: KISS, guys, KISS :) | 15:41 |
| Milo- | whee, gnu coreutils are in extras or extras testing | 15:41 |
| tybollt | who you calling stupid there hukka? :) | 15:41 |
| Milo- | finally better coreutils | 15:41 |
| nid0 | I miss my e90 keyboard :( | 15:41 |
| cehteh | heh | 15:41 |
| Hukka | Milo-: Well that was ambiguous :) | 15:41 |
| Hukka | tybollt: Not you! | 15:41 |
| cehteh | for emacs you want some extra keys and not the on-screen keyboard :P | 15:41 |
| Milo- | Hukka not sure where they are, yet.. | 15:42 |
| crashanddie | emacs fail | 15:42 |
| iPeter- | Hey, second question. Is there anyway to use 2 simcards on N900? I got one card with free sms + calling to my GF and one card is to my "personal" use. Is there anyway to use multiple cards. Like copy that chip or something. | 15:42 |
| Milo- | maemo's default coreutils is stripped down version | 15:42 |
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| N900evil | iPeter-, no | 15:42 |
| crashanddie | iPeter-: no | 15:42 |
| nid0 | you could always buy a cheap chinese n900 knockoff | 15:42 |
| N900evil | iPeter-, well - not without another phone | 15:42 |
| Hukka | iPeter-: You don't consider texting your GF to be personal :? | 15:42 |
| nid0 | most of the clones tend to be dual sim | 15:43 |
| alterego | Heh, someone was just saying meego will run on N900 | 15:43 |
| iPeter- | Hukka: Its work :D | 15:43 |
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| tybollt | Hukka: actually seeing as I'm a hurri and all.. I guess I am a bit stupid :) | 15:43 |
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| alterego | in the #meego channel. | 15:43 |
| iPeter- | a job (: | 15:43 |
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| Hukka | tybollt: But don't worry, we underperform :) | 15:43 |
| N900evil | iPeter-, another phone over bt could be used to make calls - but... | 15:43 |
| bigon | satmd: ok I I will report the bug then... where should I repport then ? | 15:43 |
| bigon | upstream? | 15:44 |
| Hukka | tybollt: (There was an article in this Tech&Economy magazine, that even when we are better than you swedes, we underperform. Like in ice hockey, or something... :) | 15:44 |
| iPeter- | N900evil: Hmm, so i should buy other phone and i could bt pair em, and i can select what card i use to make call / sms? | 15:44 |
| N900evil | iPeter-, in principle yes. the software doesn't support this though. | 15:45 |
| iPeter- | Ofc it doesnt :E | 15:45 |
| tybollt | Hukka: Why did I know you would mention hockey? :P | 15:45 |
| Hukka | tybollt: I don't even follow it, so I don't have a clue on what's happened | 15:45 |
| Hukka | I just read the article when doing my thing at the loo in the morning | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | iPeter-: you can't expect it to do this | 15:46 |
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| crashanddie | iPeter-: and even if you did get another phone, the calls would have to go *through* that other phone | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | iPeter-: it's not like the phone would just provide you with SIM details | 15:46 |
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| satmd | bigon: I'm not exactly sure | 15:47 |
| zash | wait, what | 15:47 |
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| satmd | I don't think it's syncevolution's fault | 15:47 |
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| zash | maemo + moblin? | 15:47 |
| zash | wth | 15:47 |
| satmd | but a probalem with the .deb built for maemo | 15:47 |
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| satmd | -a | 15:47 |
| adeus | "Not charging, insufficient power" | 15:48 |
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| adeus | cool havent seen that before | 15:49 |
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| iPeter- | crashanddie: Okay. Well, i dont know what i should to do. Getting to high phone bills coz i talk too much with my gf on the phone, and sms. | 15:50 |
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| crashanddie | iPeter-: and that is our problem because? | 15:51 |
| iPeter- | It aint (: | 15:51 |
| crashanddie | iPeter-: just get a better bloody contract, or swap SIM cards | 15:51 |
| Shrik3 | get a fixed cost data plan and use skype and IM | 15:51 |
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| iPeter- | mm, maybe i have to get another phone. Thanks anyway | 15:52 |
| Shrik3 | so it's the phones fault when you blab too much with your gf?-) | 15:53 |
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| Netrum | quick question: how does having the phone permantly connected to internett thru 3g/hsdpa affect batterylife? havent tryed it myself yet. | 15:53 |
| Netrum | having it connect 24/7 that is. | 15:53 |
| * RichiH mumbles | 15:54 | |
| crashanddie | wtf | 15:54 |
| crashanddie | did I miss something? | 15:54 |
| Ken-Young | Netrum, I only get about 3 hours per charge if I'm doing heavy data transfer via 3G on my N900. | 15:54 |
| RichiH | yesterday, i finally decided to buy a n900 | 15:54 |
| crashanddie | what's this meego shit? | 15:54 |
| RichiH | today, meego is announced | 15:54 |
| tybollt | crashanddie: big time, mate :) | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH: it is a plus | 15:54 |
| Hukka | Netrum: Doesn't affect, unless you are moving data | 15:54 |
| tybollt | crashanddie: intel moblin + nokia maemo == meego as of today | 15:54 |
| tybollt | see ari jaaksi bog | 15:54 |
| Hukka | (Compared to just having non data packet network connection on) | 15:54 |
| Netrum | Ty | 15:54 |
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| Hukka | Netrum: But things like skype being on the status bar does affect it a lot | 15:55 |
| crashanddie | fuck, this is definitely not good | 15:55 |
| RichiH | Stskeeps: as much as maemo 5 for the n810? oh, wait, there _is_ no maemo 5 for the n810 | 15:55 |
| Hukka | I keep the data connection on, but IM off | 15:55 |
| crashanddie | RichiH: mer | 15:55 |
| javispedro | from a technical standpoint, it seems they trashed the lower levels of Maemo and are going to be using Moblin's. | 15:55 |
| Netrum | anyone done a comparison on skype versus regular phonecall when it comes to battery drainage ? | 15:55 |
| RichiH | crashanddie: well, yes. but still | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH: MeGoo is OSS. | 15:55 |
| javispedro | but the GUI layer of Maemo (or maybe both) | 15:56 |
| crashanddie | RichiH: well, it was always quite well known that maemo 6 might not support the n900 | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH: which makes things a hell lot easier | 15:56 |
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| RichiH | Stskeeps: not all of maemo is (same for meego, i would assume). gsm interfaces and some applications | 15:56 |
| crashanddie | but I don't want to lose maemo ffs | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH: ofono runs on top of Mer. | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH: but let's see where this leads us. | 15:57 |
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| RichiH | crashanddie: yah, i always assumed that meamo 6 would not run on the n900, but dropping the name will not exactly make developers flock to meamo in general, either | 15:57 |
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| crashanddie | RichiH: indeed | 15:58 |
| * RichiH will prolly still buy a n900 (after waiting out what else MWC brings) | 15:58 | |
| crashanddie | RichiH: I think they want to get rid of the bad rep Maemo has | 15:58 |
| RichiH | i think they want the weigth intel has | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | and get rid of the communist cabal, of course ;p | 15:58 |
| RichiH | meego will run on arm _and_ intel, mind | 15:58 |
| crashanddie | RichiH: the one thing that keeps coming back when you listen to Nokia marketing people, was that Maemo was geeky | 15:58 |
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| RichiH | crashanddie: yah, that is why i like it :p | 15:58 |
| crashanddie | RichiH: well, it would be a significant edge over other platforms | 15:59 |
| crashanddie | RichiH: android can only run on ARM, and iPhoneOS too | 15:59 |
| RichiH | crashanddie: yes, if intel & nokia do this the right way, it might become awesome | 15:59 |
| wirelessdreamer | they need a widely adopted platform to compete with apple on the mobile side | 15:59 |
| iscape | android ran on intel too | 15:59 |
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| javispedro | a widely adopted platform is exactly what Apple doesn't use. | 15:59 |
| iscape | ubuntu had done work on it | 15:59 |
| javispedro | they use a specific platform for a specific device. | 15:59 |
| RichiH | crashanddie: as android is basically a glorified VM, i doubt they are limited to arm | 16:00 |
| wirelessdreamer | but apple has the dev's commited to them | 16:00 |
| RichiH | also, who says that apple does not have an x86 iphone os in a drawer? | 16:00 |
| RichiH | windows NT ran on various platforms, as well | 16:00 |
| oscillik | RichiH: they do | 16:00 |
| wirelessdreamer | apple doesn't do mass anything | 16:00 |
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| wirelessdreamer | they want you to be forced to use their hw | 16:00 |
| oscillik | RichiH: the iPhone OS is based on a Mac OS X kernel, which as we know is cross architecture | 16:00 |
| crashanddie | oscillik: no, it's not | 16:01 |
| wirelessdreamer | apple x only will run on apple hardware, and there are lawsuits to back that | 16:01 |
| crashanddie | god the things you have to hear | 16:01 |
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| RichiH | oscillik: i know. but as they dropped stuff like memory protection etc, there _might_ be some other changes as well | 16:01 |
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| oscillik | crashanddie: isn't it? | 16:01 |
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| RichiH | crashanddie: from what i read, i think the iphone os is at least based on os x aka freebsd | 16:02 |
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| crashanddie | not really. It's like saying that a linux-i686 is cross-platform because the main linux tree supports multiple archs | 16:02 |
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| crashanddie | and will all the drivers that are in a kernel, reimplementing it on a new architecture isn't just recompiling | 16:03 |
| oscillik | ahh yes, it seems like it is just a variant of the XNU kernel | 16:03 |
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| crashanddie | Well I'll be damned | 16:08 |
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| crashanddie | anyone got links to Ari's blog or something? | 16:09 |
| Stskeeps | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/meego-time.html | 16:09 |
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| crashanddie | btw, about 2 years ago, I applied for jobs with a company called OpenedHand, I wanted to be a dev for them because they did quite a few things with Maemo. Long story short, I never got to the interview stage, because they were bought by Intel... | 16:12 |
| bigon | satmd: mm and where can I repport it for the maemo .deb? | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | 00:11 < slaine_> yes, they worked very closely with the platform and took that expertise to the moblin project. | 16:12 |
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| RichiH | "So what’s with Maemo6? Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance." | 16:12 |
| sejo_p | people using syncevolution with funambol make sure tho configuration shows the correct Calendar type (Maemo Calendar) oc your sync will fail | 16:12 |
| satmd | I'm not sure, that's why I didn't report it yet | 16:13 |
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| wirelessdreamer | hopefully nokia will add their media player source code to the project, its a bit lacking, and would love to be able to fix that | 16:13 |
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| trbs | just read the news that there scrapping maemo :( | 16:16 |
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| * trbs is so sad | 16:16 | |
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| crashanddie | btw | 16:17 |
| crashanddie | in french | 16:17 |
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| crashanddie | "megot" (pronounced the same as meego) means: "cigarette but" | 16:17 |
| Stskeeps | trbs: it's not getting scrapped | 16:17 |
| tybollt | crashanddie: Oh thr irony >:D | 16:17 |
| tybollt | the* | 16:17 |
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| ifreq | run to the hills | 16:18 |
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| Jaffa | trbs: It's the opposite of scrapping; it's become the new LIMO! | 16:19 |
| tigert | speaking of maemo6 | 16:20 |
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| * tigert installs widgets gallery from extras-devel | 16:20 | |
| eean | it's more like we our competition is being scraped :) | 16:20 |
| RichiH | btw, what is the state of free navigation on maemo 5? | 16:20 |
| derf | Horrid. | 16:21 |
| eean | I do think its odd there's nothing on maemo.org about it. and clearly meego isn't a community site, so where is maemo.org going to live. | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | tigert: it's published now? | 16:21 |
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| Tanuva | RichiH: don't you dare asking such questions... | 16:21 |
| eean | tic what's the state of paid navigation on maemo 5? :D | 16:21 |
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| tigert | Stskeeps: looks like it is | 16:21 |
| RichiH | that bad, eg? | 16:21 |
| RichiH | eh* | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | tigert: free or non-free? | 16:21 |
| tigert | didnt check what this package is | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | ah, non-free | 16:21 |
| tigert | patience | 16:21 |
| tigert | :) | 16:21 |
| Tanuva | RichiH: it works, but only with internet connection if you need to search for a location | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | tigert: i have, was just unsure what they got to :( | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | er, :) | 16:22 |
| tigert | yeah | 16:22 |
| florian | Tanuva: Hum well... I'd see it the other way around: _Here_ RichiH is allowed to ask this question ;) | 16:22 |
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| Tanuva | florian: okay, that's an argument | 16:22 |
| X-Fade | tigert: non-free? License issues? | 16:22 |
| toggles_w | MeeGo home now... | 16:23 |
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| tigert | I dont think so | 16:23 |
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| tigert | http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework | 16:24 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 16:24 | |
| *** tybollt was kicked by crashanddie (pink poney my ass) | 16:24 | |
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| dracflamloc_ | did anyone else see the news about maemo and moblin merging? | 16:25 |
| crashanddie | dracflamloc_: join the fun! #meego | 16:25 |
| Jaffa | dracflamloc_: What?! | 16:25 |
| trbs | Jaffa, Stskeeps, humm... that is the way i read the news... :( specially when going from deb->rpm that seems such a massive change to me that there will be little of maemo left afterward ? | 16:25 |
| Jaffa | Really?! | 16:25 |
| dracflamloc_ | i'm scared | 16:25 |
| dracflamloc_ | for my poor n900 | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: what rock have you been hiding under? | 16:25 |
| RichiH | Tanuva: eww | 16:25 |
| tigert | dracflamloc_: I am pretty sure your N900 will continue to work just like it did until today | 16:26 |
| Jaffa | trbs: deb->RPM isn't the biggest change. The change to developers will be relatively minor, especially as Qt (Creator) & MADDE will increasingly abstract things anyway. No, the biggest shakeup is in the community | 16:26 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: ;-) | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps: sarcasm. You know you want it. | 16:26 |
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| tigert | most likely it wont self-destruct because of the news | 16:26 |
| dracflamloc_ | i'm pretty sure i buy a 500 phone so its not obsolete two weeks after I buy it | 16:26 |
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| tybollt | crashanddie: :P | 16:26 |
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| crashanddie | dracflamloc_: hey, that's exactly what happens when you buy a computer, and guess what, the N900 is brought to market as exactly that, a mobile computer ;) | 16:27 |
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| alterego | No python-opengl?! | 16:27 |
| tigert | my N810 is not obsolete, a friend is borrowing it and enjoys it immensely | 16:27 |
| alterego | wtfomgbbq?! | 16:27 |
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| dracflamloc_ | crashanddie, yes but with a computer i can upgrade peices to keep it relevant | 16:27 |
| dracflamloc_ | andi can upgrade the OS no problem | 16:27 |
| thresh | not with a laptop | 16:27 |
| dracflamloc_ | since the n900s hardware isnt the issue here | 16:27 |
| alterego | dracflamloc_: does relevant mean bleeding edge? | 16:27 |
| dracflamloc_ | its only relevant to talk about the OS | 16:27 |
| sejo_p | RichiH: I use the mapper that has the openstreetmaps but it still downloads them | 16:28 |
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| sejo_p | RichiH: there is no mapper with voice neither | 16:28 |
| jaska | haha, rpm? | 16:28 |
| * jaska hurls | 16:28 | |
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| Stskeeps | if noone noticed, DUI seems to be in extras-devel | 16:29 |
| Tanuva | RichiH: and it calculates strange routes from time to time and won't adjust it if you drive somewhere else | 16:29 |
| Tanuva | RichiH: which is quite annoying! | 16:29 |
| thresh | how do i set n900 hostname? | 16:30 |
| thresh | to stay the same after reboots | 16:30 |
| zap | x86 phones, muhaha | 16:31 |
| Tanuva | thresh: modifying /etc/hostname should survive a reboot... | 16:31 |
| zap | what a bad joke | 16:31 |
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| thresh | Tanuva: okay. | 16:32 |
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| trbs | Jaffa, i agree that the community change is (potentially) huge, but changing van deb -> rpm doesn't seem to be a small matter. Is nokia really going to repackage maemo ? or are they moving to the moblin codebase and making it more maemoisch ? (if anybody knows :) | 16:35 |
| villager | I suppose I'm gonna install Mer before I install meego | 16:35 |
| * alterego wonders if carbide++ will be on the cards in the not-so-distant future for maemo | 16:36 | |
| * alterego contemplates setting up a "meeno" website. | 16:36 | |
| * alterego chuckles | 16:36 | |
| javispedro | trbs: I guess the latter. | 16:37 |
| javispedro | trbs: the first wouldn't make sense. | 16:37 |
| alterego | Has anyone thought about MER?! :) | 16:37 |
| thresh | is there any problem with extras-devel now? i keep getting: W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Hash Sum mismatch | 16:37 |
| thresh | doing apt-get update on the device itself | 16:37 |
| juliank | I'm disappointed. Who the fuck at Nokia agreed that RPM is OK for MeeGo? | 16:37 |
| trbs | javispedro, that's what i would think as-well (which is why i called it scrapping maemo) | 16:37 |
| javispedro | trbs: I think they scrapped the GUI parts of Moblin, or at least plan to do so. (Moblin used Gtk) | 16:38 |
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| crashanddie | well at least now we know where the single sign-on effort went... and why it never came to be on Maemo | 16:38 |
| zap | any pointers about RPM really? | 16:38 |
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| trbs | javispedro, ow i thought it was QT already... but no matter :) thought moving to Qt for embedded/phone devices is a pretty good move (though i love gtk, i can really see why qt would be better) | 16:38 |
| etamme | so .. wtf is going on? i mean .. i just got my n900... i dont even know what i should be learning to develop for it | 16:39 |
| etamme | moving to qt ... and now meego? | 16:39 |
| etamme | its tough to create a strong base with such a fast moving target | 16:39 |
| zap | etamme: write console programs | 16:39 |
| adeus | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118397/ | 16:39 |
| njsf_1 | Let's be realistic. The issue is not the file format. The issue is the expressiveness of the dependencies. | 16:39 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: ping | 16:39 |
| jreznik | juliank: for me as fedore devel it's better, I was lost with debs :D | 16:39 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: ping | 16:39 |
| alterego | etamme: just target Qt, meego is beside the point. | 16:39 |
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| javispedro | "target QT" is pretty generic | 16:39 |
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| etamme | what is the future of the n900? is meego like .. in the next year ? | 16:40 |
| etamme | what about maemo 6 ? | 16:40 |
| alterego | etamme, based on Qt, what do you mean what about it? | 16:40 |
| jreznik | etamme: start with Qt 4.6... but this is the exact thing that killed openmoko - from gtk to qt, from qt to efl... and no stable development platform... | 16:40 |
| juliank | jreznik: Just because you are not able to do good packaging. | 16:40 |
| Ceron^ | nokia already stopped caring for n900 :p | 16:40 |
| alterego | I think right now, you should forget about meego, concentrate on your N900 and maemo | 16:40 |
| *** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | Join #meego for discussions about the merger" | 16:40 | |
| trbs | i hope mer stays debian based, then at least i can use my n900 for the next couple of years | 16:41 |
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| Stskeeps | trbs: i plan mer related to fremantle so far. | 16:41 |
| etamme | yeah .. im a little disheartened with all this crap | 16:42 |
| Tanuva | jreznik: and efl develops so fast that one has to redo code every "release" | 16:42 |
| javispedro | I have to wonder why Intel. | 16:42 |
| etamme | i had my n810 ... which is now obsolete b/c it can not run maemo 5 | 16:42 |
| etamme | and now .. i have had my n900 for 2 weeks | 16:42 |
| javispedro | Weird relationship, much like Apple vs Google. | 16:42 |
| alterego | javispedro: who else? ARM? bahahaha | 16:42 |
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| etamme | and im watching this crap happen | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | etamme: N900 has more opportunity than n810. | 16:42 |
| etamme | i understand changing windowing toolkits .. thats fine | 16:42 |
| jreznik | juliank: yep, I failed to do a simple deb file even, so yes, I can't make any good package :D but I had same problem with first RPM package... it's just what you are used to use | 16:42 |
| wolf^ | juliank, dpkg is the suck when compared to rpm | 16:43 |
| etamme | but this whole meego business .. and changing from deb to rpm etc. etc. | 16:43 |
| etamme | thats insane | 16:43 |
| Tanuva | etamme: concentrate on what you have, I had a neo freerunner and nokia 3510i before and I'm quite happy with what it actually is :) | 16:43 |
| javispedro | it's clearly within Intel's interests to kill ARM. <paranoid>Embrace (Maemo), Extend (MeeGo), Extinguish</paranoid> | 16:43 |
| juliank | jreznik: That does not mean that I don't like Fedora or Red Hat, it just means that .deb is superior in my opinion. I had Fedora for a few months until RPM decided to destroy the database. | 16:43 |
| alterego | etamme: considerthis, we're using pretty much the bleeding edge of technology in our hands right now with the N900, do you really expect it to change so drastically within the next year to make this device obsolete? | 16:43 |
| trbs | Stskeeps, cool :) | 16:43 |
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| jreznik | juliank: I like RPM but I don't think one is better than other - there are cons/pros for both... | 16:43 |
| etamme | alterego, well if meamo gets dropped | 16:43 |
| alterego | Not just the N900, hardware, but the rsoftware. | 16:44 |
| alterego | etamme: it's not going to get dropped, who said anything about it being dropped? | 16:44 |
| etamme | im not concerned so much about the hardware .. i just want to see a stable platform. | 16:44 |
| jreznik | juliank: if something destroyed your db - yes, it was bug but not file format bug but application bug... | 16:44 |
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| etamme | alterego, it seems a lot of the meego stuff would basically be mutually exclusive with the existing maemo platform | 16:45 |
| juliank | jreznik: Maybe also a system crash, although I can't remember Fedora ever crashing; except during the early days of KMS | 16:45 |
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| alterego | etamme: not really, what are you talking about specifically? | 16:46 |
| juliank | jreznik: Still I like the mighty apt-get more than everything else. It's just a nice feeling to use a software one helps to develop. | 16:46 |
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| jreznik | juliank: rpm was indeed in bad state few releases ago, but panu, festi and jindra novy are working really hard to get in shape again | 16:47 |
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| etamme | alterego, ... if maemo and mobilin are now meego ... is maemo 6 axed ? is the N series going to run meego in the future? | 16:47 |
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| etamme | i just saw a press release .. so i have little information | 16:47 |
| Tanuva | I guess the meego release is going to become what maemo 6 was planned to be | 16:48 |
| alterego | etamme, maemo 6 hasn't been axed, meego is a merging of the bext of both worlds, it's an evolution not a culling. | 16:48 |
| jreznik | etamme: maemo 6 is instance of meego... that's they say | 16:48 |
| juliank | jreznik: One of the things I like is that yum & rpm just look better (less verbose) than apt-get&deb. | 16:48 |
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| jaska | well, one can hope mer or something picks up the n900s after nokia abandons them | 16:49 |
| jaska | :) | 16:49 |
| etamme | alterego, the meego site isnt very clear on what the changes are.... such as the changing of deb to rpm ... that seems pretty significant to me. | 16:49 |
| trbs | Stskeeps, you guys have (or plan to have) Mer running on hardware like beagleboard's ? | 16:49 |
| etamme | and it will obviously break a lot of existing development | 16:49 |
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| alterego | etamme: well, from meego's specific, there is now change, it's a new system. | 16:49 |
| timeless_mbp | etamme: all things considered, packaging isn't a big deal | 16:49 |
| alterego | s/specific/perspective .. | 16:49 |
| jreznik | etamme: gtk -> qt is bigger change, deb -> rpm is big change but it's just repackaging (lot of work but not as hard as porting code) | 16:50 |
| etamme | any how .. my only concern... is that i dont want maemo development to get fractured by having a constantly moving target | 16:50 |
| timeless_mbp | the gtk -> qt change was happening for Maemo 6 with or without this | 16:50 |
| timeless_mbp | etamme: so um | 16:50 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo has always been a moving target | 16:51 |
| trbs | jreznik, do you know which of the two code bases will be the 'base' of the merge ? | 16:51 |
| etamme | timeless_mbp, i know .. | 16:51 |
| timeless_mbp | i highly doubt you can find a maemo1 app that runs on maemo5 | 16:51 |
| alterego | etamme: well, use Qt, I don't see what you mean by constant moving target, all of this has been known for months. | 16:51 |
| etamme | the meego thing just seemed kind of out of left field | 16:51 |
| etamme | and i didnt really get a lot of info about what it invovled | 16:51 |
| alterego | etamme: wait, and in the meantime, just develop using the maemo Qt oriented libraries. | 16:51 |
| jreznik | trbs: from what I have read it looks like Gtk is staying and not going to be just community supported only | 16:52 |
| jreznik | but I'm not Nokia nor Intel devel, even not Maemo one yet :( | 16:52 |
| etamme | alterego, yeah .. im sure things are not going to go crazy .. i just want to get some more info ... and i dont know why i didnt hear this from nokia at all? | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | trbs: i think i'm going to reduce a bit on Mer portability atm. | 16:52 |
| trbs | jreznik, hehe :) me neither.... i've been working on maemo on beagleboard to build my own home-automation and security systems (besides having a n900 and coding some convenience apps for it) | 16:53 |
| trbs | stanojr, ok | 16:54 |
| trbs | oeps... | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | trbs: look at maemo-on-omap | 16:54 |
| * corecode eyes meego | 16:55 | |
| jreznik | trbs: I'd like to port one of my apps to maemo, but I was waiting to stabilize Qt on maemo - looks like it just happened with Qt 4.6.2 | 16:55 |
| zap | Anybody knows if it's possible to re-partition the internal flash on N810? I need one more partition | 16:56 |
| crashanddie | I'm honestly thinking about just dropping the whole thing | 16:56 |
| jreznik | but first I'd like to start with easier one app - but I don't want what to code for N900 - it has everything I want... I was checking top iPhone/Android apps and usually lot of these apps are already in base system or totally useless apps... :D | 16:56 |
| trbs | Stskeeps, ok can imaging why you do that for mer, I was looking at http://maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org/ | 16:56 |
| crashanddie | just, stop being a mod, stop being an op, stop coming to IRC | 16:57 |
| crashanddie | and just not care anymore | 16:57 |
| trbs | luckilly most of development for screen, interface and daemons can be done quite easily in the scratchbox env :) | 16:57 |
| Tanuva | jreznik: totally useless apps are mostly the most fun :D | 16:57 |
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| Tanuva | s/mostly/usually) | 16:57 |
| lcuk | jreznik, what are your apps | 16:58 |
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| Stskeeps | trbs: http://www.omappedia.org | 16:58 |
| Lantizia | I can't put in to words how angry I am at this announcement | 16:58 |
| ifreq | why? | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | Lantizia: pitchforks! torches! | 16:59 |
| Lantizia | because it's a huge step back | 16:59 |
| trbs | Stskeeps, yeah was looking at the getting_started page for fremantle :) | 16:59 |
| jreznik | lcuk: makneto - xmpp whiteboarding tool... it could be nice to have it with touchscreen device... but the current code is mess - it needs rewrite from scratch, nice opportunity to do it but lot of work | 16:59 |
| Lantizia | Only had the N900 2 months and already it's a product with an uncertain future | 17:00 |
| ifreq | lcuk: howz liqbabe :) | 17:00 |
| trbs | Stskeeps, last question :) how tightly is the gui of maemo/mer integrated into the system... aka would it be possible to go the other way and take debian/arm and put the mer gui on top of that ? | 17:01 |
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| Stskeeps | trbs: guess what i'm doing.. | 17:02 |
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| Lantizia | Does anyone some other nice debian/gtk based phone? | 17:02 |
| lcuk | jreznik, :) you seen the sort of stuff i do ;) http://liqbase.net/liq.liqbase.multi.sketch.S6003750.JPG | 17:02 |
| trbs | hehe sorry... with your reply sounds like i was stating the obvious lol :) | 17:03 |
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| lcuk | ifreq, im as well as can be expected with a funeral tomorrow | 17:03 |
| ifreq | Lantizia: pls come back later | 17:03 |
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| Lantizia | ifreq: why? | 17:03 |
| SpeedEvil | trbs: maemo - quite heavily. | 17:03 |
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| ifreq | lcuk: ah thats bad :P | 17:03 |
| aquatix | lcuk: you have 3 n900's? | 17:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | trbs: But you can take maemo and strip it back to a X server and little else if you want. | 17:04 |
| lcuk | aquatix, errr | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | trbs: then in principle run whatever on it. | 17:04 |
| lcuk | ummm ;) | 17:04 |
| aquatix | lcuk: ah ;) | 17:04 |
| mcizek | hello. is there a maemo package for gnu screen? particularily for maemo 5/n900? | 17:04 |
| lcuk | 2.99 | 17:04 |
| aquatix | lcuk: eh? | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | mcizek: apt-get install screen | 17:04 |
| ifreq | mziker check maemo.org/packages | 17:04 |
| mcizek | SpeedEvil: tried that. any special repository I need to add? have extras. | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | extras-devel? | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | tools? | 17:05 |
| jreznik | lcuk: wow, that's nice! | 17:05 |
| SpeedEvil | unsure where I got it from | 17:05 |
| mcizek | SpeedEvil: extras-testing? | 17:06 |
| lcuk | jreznik, thats only a tiny part | 17:06 |
| aquatix | heh, #meego is a torrent | 17:06 |
| trbs | SpeedEvil, true... but the hope for me was to be able to focus on the home-automation part and not having to worry about gui + embedded system... that's why i thought something like maemo would be 'perfect'. fancy interface + os without the hazzle :) | 17:06 |
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| lcuk | jreznik, it sits ontop of http://www.youtube.com/user/lcukmaemo#p/a/u/2/7hGUKICDeok | 17:06 |
| javispedro | aquatix: oh, it's always fun to be in the middle of a culture clash | 17:06 |
| aquatix | javispedro: yep :) | 17:06 |
| aquatix | maemo! moblin! rpm! deb! | 17:07 |
| aquatix | love it | 17:07 |
| javispedro | qt! gtk! | 17:07 |
| trbs | now i must admit, that for my hobby projects i just do not want to touch anything else then debian or *bsd | 17:07 |
| javispedro | add openmoko to the mix. | 17:07 |
| trbs | why not use gnustep ? :) | 17:07 |
| * vmlemon_ thinks that Fiasco, or MobGo would be a more apt name, right now ;) | 17:07 | |
| javispedro | my vote is on the MGUPTAF = MeeGo Unified Package Tar Archive Format | 17:07 |
| aquatix | javispedro: yep :) | 17:07 |
| jreznik | we are planning local openmobility conference, good topic to discuss there :D | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | trbs: what do you want to run these project on? | 17:08 |
| aquatix | can't they base meego on slack? | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | slack++ | 17:08 |
| crashanddie | aquatix: no, most of maemo backend gets kicked out, and we go with moblin | 17:08 |
| crashanddie | moblin is a fork off fedora | 17:08 |
| trbs | slackware... wow my first linux ... that's a flashback :) | 17:08 |
| crashanddie | ifI understand it correctly | 17:08 |
| aquatix | moblin was based on fedora, yes | 17:08 |
| crashanddie | forked | 17:09 |
| aquatix | but in essence, it's just a nice gtk layer | 17:09 |
| aquatix | it ran on ubuntu too, later | 17:09 |
| crashanddie | they're not pulling from mainstream anymore | 17:09 |
| jreznik | aquatix: it's more like merge of fedora, opensuse and ubuntu | 17:09 |
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| crashanddie | aquatix: no, other way around, ubuntu first, fedore fork later | 17:09 |
| javispedro | so now it's going to be a merge of fedora, opensuse, ubuntu, debian and symbian. | 17:09 |
| jreznik | but now it's completely on theirs own legs | 17:09 |
| aquatix | crashanddie: oh? hm, then i missed some | 17:09 |
| crashanddie | jreznik: why opensuse? there's no zypper here | 17:09 |
| javispedro | doesn't zypper cme from opensuse? | 17:10 |
| javispedro | I kinda remember using that for my first time in opensuse | 17:10 |
| jreznik | crashanddie: they use lot of opensuse build tools | 17:10 |
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| aquatix | crashanddie: or was it lightweight ubuntu with xfce4 first (v0.2something) | 17:10 |
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| javispedro | ah, so this is the nokia master plan | 17:11 |
| jreznik | I can probably find fedora-devel archive emails - we were asking why they are forking fedora and do now work with fedora and they replied - it's not fedora anymore, we use some parts from fedora, suse etc.. | 17:11 |
| javispedro | harmattan -- switch to Qt | 17:11 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: Ho! Ho! Ho! | 17:11 |
| javispedro | inverna -- switch to E18^WRPM | 17:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: BTW, found a bug in OpenTTD | 17:11 |
| javispedro | RST38h: morning. and shoot :) | 17:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: When you start dragging your finger, it does not react for a while, then jumps to wherever your finger is | 17:12 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, only one? | 17:12 |
| RST38h | javispedro: it is kinda disorienting | 17:12 |
| RST38h | slono: Oh, we have been on this for a while now, it is pretty decent ;) | 17:12 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: I remade the entire thing in the latest fremantle version, do you have that one? | 17:12 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I have whatever is in the repos (devel included) | 17:13 |
| javispedro | RST38h: ah, I think I see what you mean. | 17:13 |
| javispedro | RST38h: is the area where it does not scroll "smallish"? | 17:13 |
| javispedro | RST38h: that's the click vs drag detection at work | 17:14 |
| RST38h | javispedro: not very small more like quarter of a screen =) | 17:14 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: happens randomly, or always? | 17:16 |
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| koala_man | are there any non-cli sftp clients? | 17:17 |
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| LuciusMare_away | i might report a bug, every keypress is sent twice by the vncviewer | 17:17 |
| LuciusMare_away | oh | 17:18 |
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| mcizek | anyone else successfully running gnu screen and can tell me where they found it? | 17:18 |
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| LuciusMare | does it also happen to you? | 17:18 |
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| RST38h | javis: always | 17:18 |
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| javispedro | oh, that's interesting. | 17:18 |
| dexteruk | Hi Everyone | 17:19 |
| javispedro | doesn't seem to happen here with the default configuration. | 17:19 |
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| RST38h | javis: mine is also default. weird | 17:19 |
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| dexteruk | N900 question does nokia intend to release the pc suite for linux? | 17:19 |
| javispedro | RST38h: in fact, https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=4767&group_id=874&atid=3286 | 17:20 |
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| sejo | dexteruk: I'm not holding my breath | 17:21 |
| mcizek | you could always try wine. | 17:22 |
| dexteruk | I dont understand how they can release a phone with Linux as an OS and not provide the nokia suite for linux also... Dont they know that 99% of the first people to buy the phone will be Linux users | 17:22 |
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| dexteruk | yes im doing that now | 17:22 |
| dexteruk | just wanted to bitch see if anyone from nokia was listening :-D | 17:23 |
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| * aquatix never uses desktop sync | 17:23 | |
| aquatix | just sync with the sky :) | 17:23 |
| dexteruk | But I have to say its a wonderful phone | 17:23 |
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| dexteruk | :-) I know there is always many ways with Open Source to do a job.. But just for once i wanted to see the big boys doing the work and not us :-D | 17:25 |
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| aquatix | true | 17:25 |
| javispedro | tbh this entire merger is something I've always though it's a good idea -- moving to a fully OSS base platform (aka what I call "maemo based on mer"), but I fear this entire change of the command chain. | 17:26 |
| adalal | hey, just a quick question, is there a way to route the audio output and input to a computer? | 17:26 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: It really won't be opensource all the way. There will always be a closed layer. | 17:26 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: But at least the common part with be open. | 17:27 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: yes, but this is why I prefer the base part to be OSS. | 17:27 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: instead of a "mix". | 17:27 |
| javispedro | of upper and lower level components being closed. | 17:27 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: yeah, but that is what Harmattan was supposed to be anyway. | 17:27 |
| X-Fade | A more clear line, but yeah I guess that is why Harmattan will be a MeeGo instance ;) | 17:28 |
| javispedro | if that's the case, then I'm happy. | 17:28 |
| javispedro | but I think more integration than that... may be dangerous. | 17:29 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: hm, harmattan a meego instance? but it seems meego prefers gtk/clutter, while harmattan wants qt | 17:30 |
| lucas | which note taking/simple text editor application should I use on the N900? | 17:30 |
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| javispedro | I don't even see the reason to integrate the websites. Now every "MeeGo" garage project will have to be a x86/arm package. | 17:30 |
| lucas | vim doesn't look like an option because of the keyboard ;) | 17:30 |
| juliank | aquatix: Meego's primary UI toolkit is Qt. | 17:30 |
| lardman | aquatix: the diagram of system sw shows Qt being the main toolkit iirc | 17:30 |
| X-Fade | aquatix: huh, you didn't read the architecture chart on meego.com :) | 17:30 |
| aquatix | oh | 17:30 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: erm, nope O:) | 17:30 |
| lardman | well that's telling you ;) | 17:30 |
| * aquatix hides in shame | 17:30 | |
| aquatix | i still try to keep an appearance of 'work' here at... work :) | 17:31 |
| lardman | yeah same, but I did sneak a quick read earlier on | 17:31 |
| dexteruk | so when using the terminal on the n900, anyone worked out how to copy and paste? | 17:31 |
| javispedro | at least half of us did. | 17:32 |
| frals | uh, drag to mark, appbar and "copy"? | 17:32 |
| dexteruk | ah you see didnt look there :-D | 17:32 |
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| wazd | цщц | 17:32 |
| dexteruk | see learning something new all the time :-D (thanks) | 17:33 |
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| wazd | wow | 17:33 |
| wazd | MS just rocked with new UI I guess :) | 17:33 |
| * RST38h moos at wazd | 17:33 | |
| wazd | RST38h: moo :) | 17:33 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ready to buy a zunephone? =) | 17:33 |
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| dexteruk | MS and rocked are two words i could never of imagined seeing together | 17:33 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, I like all that typography and simplicity stuff :) | 17:34 |
| aquatix | wazd: yep | 17:34 |
| * aquatix too | 17:34 | |
| MiXu- | simplicity, yay | 17:34 |
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| MiXu- | what they've done now is kill the responsiveness with excess candy | 17:35 |
| MiXu- | (generally with all smartphones) | 17:35 |
| trbs | dexteruk, you can use ctrl-c and ctrl-v as well as tap the top 'x terminal' bar | 17:35 |
| lardman | is this the Win7 on a phone stuff? | 17:35 |
| dexteruk | tried that and all it did for me was give me a new line | 17:35 |
| aquatix | trbs: ctrl+c in a terminal does other things i guess :) | 17:36 |
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| dexteruk | Sorry guys but the only place that MS should exist is in the bin... Havent used it for over 15 years and everytime i have to is slow, not userfriendly and full of holes | 17:37 |
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| lardman | lcuk: looks like win7 mobile has borrowed your liqtile interface | 17:38 |
| lardman | dexteruk: well some people have to use it at work | 17:38 |
| lcuk | lardman i did give it a second glance | 17:39 |
| javispedro | oh god, I need to leave meego or I'll burst. | 17:39 |
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| dexteruk | Poor company, they really dont want people to be productive do they | 17:39 |
| lardman | well it's all interesting stuff | 17:40 |
| javispedro | burst into laughs, of course. | 17:40 |
| * lcuk has other things on his mind today | 17:40 | |
| lardman | got to say the ui flashiness is well done on Win mobile | 17:40 |
| lardman | javispedro: too much chatter there for the time being | 17:40 |
| MiXu- | MS has recently got stuff right in fact. | 17:40 |
| MiXu- | Like Windows 7. | 17:40 |
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| aquatix | javispedro: :) | 17:41 |
| aquatix | javispedro: already did | 17:41 |
| aquatix | javispedro: colleagues starting to look funny at me | 17:41 |
| dexteruk | Right you tell that to me when i get spam message from someone msn about some nake pics of you one line | 17:41 |
| dexteruk | im sick to depth of telling you have some unwanted guests on there machine | 17:42 |
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| alterego | Heh: undefined symbol: _zNK24QAbstractKineticScroller10metaObjectEv - good job nokia ... | 17:43 |
| alterego | PySide is screwed on the device :( | 17:43 |
| aquatix | win7 is ok-ish | 17:43 |
| * aquatix sticks with linux anyway | 17:43 | |
| MiXu- | dexteruk: No one is forcing you to install any msn clients. | 17:43 |
| wazd | win7 is omgish :) | 17:43 |
| dexteruk | all the graphics in the world cannot remove the fact that there OS is has more holes than swisscheese | 17:43 |
| lizardo | alterego: you need to use older qt4.6 packages | 17:43 |
| aquatix | wazd: in what sense? | 17:43 |
| alterego | lizardo: oh .. Great ... :/ | 17:43 |
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| wazd | aquatix: in a good sense :) | 17:44 |
| andre__ | timeless, ping | 17:44 |
| aquatix | dexteruk: i regard it as a toy OS | 17:44 |
| lizardo | alterego: you should know that Qt 4.6 on maemo is still... beta | 17:44 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:44 |
| aquatix | wazd: yeah, i was pleasantly surprised about the GUI | 17:44 |
| doubleukay-m | hi guys, my adsl is under maintenance. what's the quickest way to tether my n900 to my pc? either windows or linux | 17:44 |
| jreznik | lizardo: it isn't http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/02/15/qt-462-for-maemo-5-released/ | 17:45 |
| alterego | doubleukay-m: USB cable | 17:45 |
| alterego | doubleukay-m: PC Suite mode, ubuntnu detects it straight away. Windows use PC suite | 17:45 |
| doubleukay-m | alterego, thanks, will do that | 17:45 |
| lizardo | alterego: I use this one liner to downgrade my qt4 packages to ones which work together with PySide : dpkg -l 'libqt4-maemo5*' | awk '$1 == "ii" {print $2"=4.6.2~git20100128-0maemo1"}' | xargs apt-get --yes --force-yes install | 17:45 |
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| lizardo | jreznik: fresh news are always good :) | 17:46 |
| doubleukay-m | i don't have pc suite (ew) on windows so i'll hook it up on linux | 17:46 |
| alterego | lizardo: thanks | 17:46 |
| lizardo | jreznik: today is the news day | 17:46 |
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| lizardo | jreznik: thanks for heads up BTW, I'll see what can be done to push new PySide packages recompiled with this final release | 17:47 |
| celesteh | hey, i'm running easy debian on my n900 and it's really cool. however, i'm running very short of free space on the image. Is there a way to resize the existing image? | 17:47 |
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| alterego | lizardo: that one-liner doesn't seem to do anything for me :P | 17:52 |
| lizardo | alterego: it says that you are using the versions ? | 17:53 |
| lizardo | alterego: anyway, if you can wait some hours (if there are no surprises...), I plan to recompile PySide with this final release still today :) | 17:54 |
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| IcanCU | so whats going with maemo? | 17:55 |
| alterego | lizardo: ah, I can probably wait a few hours :) | 17:55 |
| IcanCU | is it now dead? | 17:55 |
| IcanCU | MeeGo? | 17:55 |
| IcanCU | wtf | 17:55 |
| vmlemon_ | Stillborn | 17:55 |
| alterego | lizardo: I'm just playing with Qt on my desktop, and wanted to see if this same form.ui file would load and what it'd look like on the N900 :) | 17:55 |
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| w00t | lizardo: can I prod you about a bug report wrt pyside? | 17:57 |
| thresh | the ultimate name would have been a 'maemoblin' | 17:57 |
| IcanCU | what does MeeGo mean for the Maemo platform? | 17:57 |
| thresh | would sound relly funny in Russian | 17:57 |
| thresh | something like "Maemo, damn" | 17:57 |
| IcanCU | lol | 17:57 |
| sumanah | IcanCU: read the meego.com FAQs | 17:58 |
| sumanah | IcanCU: + Planet Maemo | 17:58 |
| alterego | I presumed they called it MeeGo because they were going to integrate Google's Go .. | 17:58 |
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| IcanCU | is Meego backwards compatible with Maemo? | 17:59 |
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| sejo | IcanCU: it's a different OS what compatibility do you want to see? | 18:01 |
| IcanCU | ok | 18:01 |
| IcanCU | well like maemo apps running on meego | 18:02 |
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| lizardo | w00t: better go trough #pyside in this case :) but note that 60% of PySide devs are away today for the Carnival holidays... | 18:04 |
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| Shapeshifter | IcanCU: It's likely that stuff will run. However, they'll need to be repackaged to rpm. | 18:04 |
| IcanCU | i see | 18:04 |
| lizardo | w00t: so you may get some delay in getting your answer | 18:04 |
| w00t | lizardo: sure, i'll dig it up and ask it | 18:04 |
| Shapeshifter | IcanCU: it's linux. you can run pretty much anything you want. gtk and stuff will just not be the official/prime toolkit. | 18:04 |
| IcanCU | yeah thats a good thing | 18:05 |
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| koivula | I really wonder how UI for Mobile devices and things like netbooks/laptops will be united :) | 18:05 |
| Hukka | It won't of course | 18:06 |
| Hukka | multitouch vs no touch | 18:07 |
| Hukka | Different paradigm | 18:07 |
| guardian | I just discovered about Meego's existence. What does it mean in terms of Maemo future? | 18:07 |
| IcanCU | lol | 18:07 |
| koivula | But anyway Meeb^Hgo seems like a potential failure. | 18:07 |
| IcanCU | guardian: scroll up a bit | 18:07 |
| IcanCU | just asked the same thing | 18:07 |
| guardian | IcanCU: I just joined, not enough backlog :/ | 18:08 |
| guardian | IcanCU: paste in query? | 18:08 |
| Hukka | koivula: Every change has the potential to fail and to succeed | 18:08 |
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| IcanCU | in short: maemo will be no more | 18:08 |
| IcanCU | it will be meego | 18:08 |
| celesteh | How long has this change been afoot? | 18:08 |
| IcanCU | think it was new to most ppl | 18:09 |
| koivula | Hukka, can't really see much advantages other than boasting around that this is done with Intel and backed up mighty Linux Foundation. | 18:09 |
| X-Fade | http://duiframework.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/announcing-the-open-source-release-of-the-maemo-6-ui-framework/ | 18:09 |
| celesteh | Is this related to how few apps have been ported to the new maemo OS version, or is that just due to the newness? | 18:09 |
| guardian | asked on #meego without answers: I developed an hildon input method plugin that brings handwriting recognition, is there a new input method framework in meego? | 18:09 |
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| Hukka | koivula: Combined resourcers and user base | 18:09 |
| Shapeshifter | guardian: so you used gtk? | 18:10 |
| Hukka | guardian: Hildon is community supported on Harmattan, after that not at all | 18:10 |
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| guardian | Shapeshifter: I did but I'm more concerned about the input method framework than with the UI stuf | 18:10 |
| guardian | f | 18:10 |
| Hukka | The Moblin UX framework will be supported as a second class citizen, that is that they mean with gtk support in meego | 18:11 |
| koivula | Hukka, well that's true but that doesn't require merging distros. You could also just quit the other. | 18:11 |
| guardian | I don't mind rewriting the UI in Qt, what's important is a good input method framework | 18:11 |
| koivula | Hukka, but anyway don't know too much if there really is something really to gain with merge. | 18:12 |
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| Hukka | koivula: That would be bad PR | 18:12 |
| Hukka | koivula: And the merge does give us for example the same Qt framework, that we were getting with the original plan | 18:13 |
| Hukka | (Or well, I don't know if this was the original plan, but not announced as such) | 18:13 |
| koivula | Hukka, well maybe a pr-wizard could say we shut down this other distro in some fancy way to make it look good. | 18:13 |
| Hukka | koivula: Yeah, "merge" | 18:13 |
| Hukka | But anyway, it will have parts from both | 18:13 |
| Hukka | Moblin wasn't supposed to have Qt before this announcement | 18:13 |
| Hukka | So before we had Qt in Nokia phones... and in Nokia phones. Now also in netbooks and all those embedded thingies that they say on the announcements | 18:14 |
| Hukka | Which for us means that we can target a wider audience with smaller effort than before | 18:14 |
| MiXu- | Yup. Makes Qt stronger. | 18:15 |
| guardian | in short, what in meego comes from moblin that maemo lacks? | 18:15 |
| Hukka | And there's been talk about Nokia's plans with Atom | 18:15 |
| javispedro | btw, to all those harmattan on n900 naysayers, nokia's release DUI in Extras-devel | 18:15 |
| Hukka | There will be an even lower power chip, and Nokia has been collaborating with Intel in hw before | 18:15 |
| Hukka | So all we know, they might plan, or prepare for an Atom phone | 18:16 |
| MiXu- | That would make sense | 18:16 |
| MiXu- | And I'd be happy to get rid of arm | 18:16 |
| Hukka | Then it indeed makes sense to get the good hw support directly from Intel, without bothering to do all the low level R&D | 18:16 |
| Hukka | I've been talking with the Moblin guys for a few hours now | 18:16 |
| Hukka | I can say that there are benefits, but also risks | 18:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | andre__: pong | 18:17 |
| juhovh | hmm, why getting rid of arm would be that good? | 18:17 |
| Hukka | It seems like moblin is actually currently more closed than Maemo is, in a way | 18:17 |
| Hukka | juhovh: I'm not commenting on whether that's good or not, but only that if that's the way to go, then it makes sense to use Moblin, which is The Most Atom optimized OS there is | 18:17 |
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| guardian | in short, what in meego comes from moblin that maemo lacks? | 18:20 |
| aquatix | teehee: http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2010/02/15/dilberts-reaction-to-the-new-microsoft-phone/ | 18:21 |
| * aquatix gone | 18:21 | |
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| timeless_mbp | guardian: a corporate partner | 18:22 |
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| Hukka | guardian: Wider device base | 18:25 |
| dockane_ | anyone able to charge his prepaid sim card with n900? (with some ussd*) | 18:25 |
| Hukka | guardian: If you ask "What does my N900 get from Moblin" then nothing | 18:26 |
| Hukka | But this is no longer only about phones | 18:26 |
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| koivula | When there is actually an atom processor suitable for mobile PHONES? | 18:26 |
| Hukka | Which I think is a good thing. There's been somewhat tongue-in-a-cheek talk about maemo tablet before | 18:26 |
| Hukka | This is it | 18:26 |
| Hukka | koivula: Not sure, but Moblin people indicate that somewhat soon | 18:26 |
| Hukka | Haven't followed the Atom trends and rumours that well | 18:27 |
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| Hukka | dockane_: Not possible | 18:27 |
| Hukka | dockane_: Use another phone | 18:27 |
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| dockane_ | Hukka: well, thats unsatisfying. ussd codes work so far for me with ussdwidget.. | 18:30 |
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| Hukka | Oh, there's now something for ussd? | 18:32 |
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| Hukka | I was still under the impression that they just don't work at all | 18:32 |
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| * florian wonders why planet maemo fails to pick up his blog now. | 18:34 | |
| etamme | where is all this info about meego etc? | 18:34 |
| Hukka | meego.com | 18:34 |
| etamme | i havent seen ANYTHING on maemo.org | 18:34 |
| etamme | meego.com basically has no info | 18:34 |
| Hukka | etamme: There are several threads on talk | 18:34 |
| Hukka | It's what we have | 18:34 |
| Hukka | Plus what Jaaksi wrote on his blog and the announcements | 18:35 |
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| cpscotti | so.. what now? forgetting all out big projects for maemo and waiting for meego? | 18:35 |
| Hukka | Why? | 18:35 |
| Hukka | Qt's here | 18:35 |
| cpscotti | (even though lower layer code will essentially be the same, it seems that hildon will disappear) | 18:35 |
| Hukka | 4.6 was released | 18:36 |
| guardian | back to my question about input methods: what was nice is that a single instance of my hildon input method plugin (that needs to bring several mb of data into memory) was used by many gtk text widgets. does meego features the same concept? through Qt mobility maybe? | 18:36 |
| cpscotti | *our | 18:36 |
| Hukka | I've been targetting Qt since I got N900. Gtk was going to be finished anyway. So nothings changed in that sense | 18:36 |
| Hukka | The top layer will be from Maemo. | 18:36 |
| X-Fade | florian: Did you tag it with maemo? | 18:36 |
| X-Fade | florian: I only see one post in that feed. | 18:37 |
| Hukka | If you are an app developer, just work as usual. If not, then you work for Nokia or Intel anyway and you know what will happen | 18:37 |
| * slonopotamus uses gentoo on his n800 and looks at all this buzz with a smile :) | 18:37 | |
| florian | X-Fade: I'd see this as correctly tagged and working: http://fl0rian.wordpress.com/category/maemo/&feed=rss2/feed/ | 18:37 |
| X-Fade | florian: http://fl0rian.wordpress.com/tag/maemo/feed/ | 18:37 |
| X-Fade | florian: That is th one in use. | 18:37 |
| cpscotti | Hukka: well.. I was still relying in gtk... | 18:38 |
| Hukka | cpscotti: It wouldn't have been officially supported in Harmattan anyway | 18:38 |
| bigbrovar | so maemo is officially deprecated. this would mean the end of any meaningful 3rd party support for the N900 :( | 18:38 |
| cpscotti | I never really liked (nor experienced much) with qt | 18:38 |
| X-Fade | florian: Shall I change feeds? | 18:39 |
| florian | X-Fade: strange... looks like something changed at wordpress | 18:39 |
| florian | X-Fade: yes please | 18:39 |
| Hukka | cpscotti: You should, if you worry about users | 18:39 |
| Hukka | cpscotti: And if you were developing just for yourself, then nothing's changed | 18:39 |
| X-Fade | florian: Ok, changed. | 18:39 |
| florian | X-Fade: Many thanks! | 18:39 |
| Hukka | cpscotti: Your Gtk from your N900 won't magically be killed | 18:39 |
| cpscotti | nice | 18:40 |
| cpscotti | for example... the hildon widgets are all in the gtk universe after all | 18:40 |
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| cpscotti | and I loved that they put a n900 on meego homepage | 18:40 |
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| bigbrovar | cpscotti: that is because they is no other phone to put there.. not like they would put the N97 :p | 18:41 |
| koivula | I wonder if future MeeGo products can be upgraded to new major versions like iPhone. | 18:41 |
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| bigbrovar | this news is just sinking in. I mean was it not the same nokia that was talking about plans for maemo6? It seems this was a rushed decision | 18:42 |
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| Hukka | bigbrovar: And nothing has been taken away from Harmattan | 18:43 |
| slonopotamus | so, place your bets :) will there be official meego for n900? :) | 18:43 |
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| Hukka | On the contrary. Everyone who has targetted Harmattan will now suddenly find a much larger base of devices their app will work on, either with no or small effort | 18:43 |
| javispedro | slonopotamus: a very, very safe bet is "no". | 18:44 |
| bigbrovar | Hukka: we hope so, I have to say the future of maemo (meego) just got blurrier | 18:44 |
| Hukka | slonopotamus: No | 18:44 |
| Hukka | Even Harmattan isn't official meego, I think | 18:44 |
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| Hukka | It's just compatible | 18:44 |
| Andy80 | well.... do we move directly to #meego or we continue to stay here :D ? | 18:44 |
| slonopotamus | javispedro, Hukka hehe :) for some reason i think that way too | 18:44 |
| Hukka | bigbrovar: Oh, it was blurry all along | 18:44 |
| koivula | Hukka, but is harmattan a free upgrade to n900? | 18:44 |
| Hukka | koivula: If it is, consider it a gift | 18:44 |
| Hukka | koivula: It was never _ever_ promised | 18:45 |
| bigbrovar | Hukka: very sad.. Nokia which were are u going? | 18:45 |
| javispedro | Andy80: suggestion: enter #meego and say "rpm sucks lusers!" | 18:45 |
| bigbrovar | that should be the new moto for nokia | 18:45 |
| Hukka | People just read rumours enough to start believing it's the official truth, and when it doesn't happen ffeel like something was stolen from them | 18:45 |
| bigbrovar | :p | 18:45 |
| Andy80 | javispedro: I'm already in #meego and that was really the thing I was going to write :D | 18:45 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Well, this is not so much about meego as it is "what will maemo be in it's final days" | 18:46 |
| MiXu- | People are making a too big fuss about the whole meego thing. To me it seems that it's only a good thin. | 18:46 |
| Hukka | And whether Harmattan will come to N900 is definately not affected by this | 18:46 |
| MiXu- | So maybe you need to learn a new packaging system. Big deal. | 18:46 |
| koivula | Hukka, yes I know I hasn't promised. And maybe I should have said free or for a similar price that iPhone OS ugprades. | 18:46 |
| Hukka | koivula: What I can say, is that even if you don't get Harmattan, you get a lot | 18:46 |
| Hukka | I'd be very surprised to see Harmattan DRM on N900 | 18:46 |
| Hukka | But if you only wanted the free apps, I'd be very surprised why you wouldn't get them | 18:47 |
| javispedro | MiXu-: whatever way you look at it, you're going to lose something (be it some part of maemo.org, some unmantained software, old device support, or tmo karma). So no wonder people shits over. | 18:47 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: N900 has not any DRM chipset... that is the problem... | 18:47 |
| Hukka | After all we are using N900 as Qt4.6 dev platform for a while now | 18:47 |
| etamme | harumph..... im really not thrilled with this whole meego development.... i see n900 adopters getting a$$ Fu#@ed just like the I did with my n810. I can honestly only hope nokia doesnt f@ck this up, if they do - i can honestly say i will never buy a nokia product again in my life. | 18:47 |
| javispedro | time will tell what the benefits are going to be... | 18:47 |
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| Hukka | Also who knows, next Maemo device could have a compass, or some other hw | 18:47 |
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| penguinbait | there is no next maemo device right? | 18:48 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: not a problem itself, but in the fact that 3rd party producers want warranties and Nokia won't allow harmattan to run on N900 since the device cannot give any warranty about anti-piracy | 18:48 |
| Hukka | So that would also preclude us from the official OS. But still, we would get the extra apps | 18:48 |
| javispedro | penguinbait: technically, harmattan device. | 18:48 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Sure, but personally I would feel a lot bigger loss if I wouldn't get the OSS apps | 18:48 |
| javispedro | in a sense it's already outdated even before it being out :D | 18:48 |
| Hukka | No it's not... | 18:49 |
| Andy80 | harmattan is meego complatible... after all it's all about Qt! Probably it will be named "MeeGo" instead of "Maemo" | 18:49 |
| X-Fade | Andy80: The N900 can be locked too. ;) | 18:49 |
| Hukka | Unless you want to say that every device is outdated before it's out | 18:49 |
| X-Fade | Andy80: Harmattan will also run on omap3. | 18:49 |
| Hukka | We always have rumours of what will be the next | 18:49 |
| javispedro | Hukka: exactly (tmo point of view) | 18:49 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: a DRM chipset doesn't deny the presence of OSS software | 18:49 |
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| X-Fade | Andy80: So technically they can just lock your N900 ;) | 18:49 |
| Hukka | Go buy an i7? It's outdated. We know Intel's going 28n | 18:50 |
| Hukka | +m | 18:50 |
| Andy80 | X-Fade: how can they lock it? | 18:50 |
| andres | Hell. I have a hard time not to start ranting about meego... | 18:50 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Yes, which was my point | 18:50 |
| X-Fade | Andy80: When you flash new firmware? | 18:50 |
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| javispedro | andres: rantings for meego go at #meego. specially rpm rants. | 18:50 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Won't get the official OS, will get all the OSS apps | 18:50 |
| florian | X-Fade: Ok, something has changed: Before the chage I saw all the old stuff here: http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:49150f6460d13e3d595a34443892bce6/ now there are only two. | 18:50 |
| Hukka | For me, it's good enough | 18:50 |
| andres | javispedro: thats why I did not really start ;-) | 18:50 |
| Hukka | But people, think! | 18:50 |
| florian | X-Fade: Do you know offhand when the planet update runs? | 18:50 |
| Hukka | This means it's no longer just N900 | 18:51 |
| X-Fade | florian: Once per hour. | 18:51 |
| Hukka | It's no longer just a hobby project of Ari Jaaksi | 18:51 |
| Hukka | This is a _good_ _thing_ | 18:51 |
| javispedro | no. it's now an american company hobby project. | 18:51 |
| Andy80 | no having ano official OS means that people is buying N900 now is simply wating 599€ in something that won't get any update in few months | 18:51 |
| Andy80 | wasting | 18:51 |
| andres | javispedro: I am actually more concerned about what to target when... | 18:51 |
| Hukka | Andy80: And if they buy some other smartphone? | 18:51 |
| Hukka | javispedro: Two companies. | 18:52 |
| penguinbait | so will harmatten be scrapped or run on intel processor? | 18:52 |
| florian | X-Fade: Ok... I'll wait for a while and see if it gets picked up | 18:52 |
| koivula | Hukka, so then we can expect things like Qt bindings for Erlang! | 18:52 |
| X-Fade | florian: I already see it on the planet? | 18:52 |
| Hukka | And I'd say that a joint venture is something clearly more stable than just an R&D project | 18:52 |
| Hukka | To back out would require probably a breach of contract | 18:52 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: who bought Google G1 can upgrade it with latest Android someway... same thing for iPhone | 18:52 |
| javispedro | penguinbait: as I was saying, theoretically harmattan will come out as is -- just "meego compatible", whatever that means. | 18:52 |
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| Andy80 | Hukka: if you buy a N900 now and they stop developing it... well... I would be very hungry | 18:53 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Except that with both you get limited new functionality | 18:53 |
| Andy80 | angry... | 18:53 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Get this, Qt4.6 is coming to N900 | 18:53 |
| penguinbait | meego is a stupid name, I like moblin better | 18:53 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Uiemo demos are running on N900 | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | Hukka: DUI too, it seems like | 18:53 |
| penguinbait | meego sound like a cheap phone from tmobile | 18:53 |
| Hukka | Andy80: MeeGo, will be Qt. And more exactly Maemo flavour. | 18:53 |
| florian | X-Fade: oh indeed... then its just a strange effect that the feed listing in garage doesn't have it yet | 18:53 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: this doesn't mean N900 will get harmattan at all :) | 18:53 |
| javispedro | I hope that MeeGo is just the geek name. | 18:53 |
| Hukka | Andy80: You. Will. Get. The. Apps. | 18:54 |
| javispedro | does intel really market "Moblin"? | 18:54 |
| X-Fade | DUI works fine on N900. | 18:54 |
| oscillik | anyone wanna buy an N900? :p | 18:54 |
| * wazd got UI poisoning with Maemoitalia Tux Theme | 18:54 | |
| penguinbait | I'll give to 20$ | 18:54 |
| X-Fade | Not really that strange as the Harmattan device will run OMAP3 too ;) | 18:54 |
| javispedro | 5 cents. | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | I'll give one bananna. | 18:54 |
| Hukka | Andy80: If you don't get it, sell your phone. There are lot's of takers who are still on the queue | 18:54 |
| oscillik | definitely thinking of selling mine | 18:55 |
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| Andy80 | Hukka: I'm not saying I don't like N900, I'm saying I find stupid if Nokia doesn't make harmattan available for N900 too | 18:55 |
| wazd | X-Fade: how long should I wait for Marina to be promoted to Extras? :) | 18:56 |
| Hukka | Andy80: For god's sake, they can't get the DRM work on N900, most likely. And you knew that it doesn't have DRM chips. | 18:56 |
| X-Fade | wazd: 10 days, like everybody else? :D | 18:56 |
| Hukka | Andy80: You'll be happy, if Nokia cancels Ovi Store and DRM from the next device, and you get the same app upgrades as you would get in any case? | 18:56 |
| Hukka | As long as there won't be any progress, hw-wise? | 18:56 |
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| koivula | I'd be happy with no-DRM devices <3 | 18:57 |
| wazd | X-Fade: well, I've already waited for 10 days actually :D | 18:57 |
| koivula | I'd be happy with no-DRM at all. | 18:57 |
| wazd | X-Fade: Package is in testingSystem2010-02-05 01:45 UTC | 18:57 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Did you receive an unlock mail? | 18:57 |
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| Andy80 | Hukka: for what is Ovi Store now, it could not exist :P it's only full of shit. Worst than apple store for iphone... | 18:57 |
| wazd | X-Fade: hmm | 18:57 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Don't switch the subject | 18:58 |
| wazd | X-Fade: let me check | 18:58 |
| Hukka | Andy80: You complained that you don't get Harmattan | 18:58 |
| Hukka | Andy80: I asked if you would be happy if Harmattan didn't include anything substantially new | 18:58 |
| Andy80 | of course I wouldn't | 18:58 |
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| Hukka | Andy80: What do you actually want? You keep talking about Harmattan without saying _what_ in it you actually want | 18:58 |
| alterego | lizardo: ping - You gonna have uitools in as part of your rebuild? | 18:58 |
| Hukka | Andy80: It's clearly not the apps, since I've told you you'll get them, and you are not happy | 18:59 |
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| Andy80 | Hukka: the problem is this: when harmattan will be out, they will simply stop developing Maemo5, that's the point | 18:59 |
| uhsf | i think you are all insane or brainwashed by needing always the latest smartphone thing, it's really stupid. i'm very happy with my n900 and maemo as it is and i couldn't care less if it stayed that way it's very usable and i could use it as it is for years without buying into the next sheep crowd hype | 19:00 |
| Hukka | Andy80: And what do you want for M5 that you don't have? | 19:00 |
| Hukka | Andy80: What is the problem, what are you missing? | 19:00 |
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| Andy80 | Hukka: if I could imagine innovative ideas for a mobile OS I wouldn't be here chatting, I would work for Nokia :D | 19:00 |
| koivula | Hukka, portrait mode? | 19:01 |
| oscillik | Hukka: IMAP IDLE | 19:01 |
| Hukka | koivula: UI | 19:01 |
| oscillik | working front facing camera | 19:01 |
| Hukka | oscillik: Hell, I don't believe the email client will be usable in Harmattan, not by Nokia :) | 19:02 |
| wazd | Andy80: it's not that easy to work for nokia, beleive me :D | 19:02 |
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| cpscotti | wazd: useful info! | 19:02 |
| oscillik | Hukka: doesn't really matter, i think i'm gonna make an eBay listing in a few hours anyways for my N900 | 19:02 |
| Andy80 | lot of things are missing in N900 as you can see... | 19:02 |
| Hukka | And the camera? Yeah, that needs to be fixed. But after it's been fixed (PR1.2, who knows?) there's not much to left for Harmattan | 19:03 |
| Andy80 | front camera working, video calls, video support in skype, portrait mode ecc... | 19:03 |
| uhsf | the fact that MeeGo website uses a big n900 on it's front page is such a cheap bastard asshole move | 19:03 |
| cpscotti | thing is... nokia really is all about uncertainty regarding its high end smartphones... and we are in the middle of it | 19:03 |
| Shapeshifter | wth is it with portrait mode.... | 19:03 |
| range | Andy80: Video support in Skype is a thing skype has to do, isn't it? | 19:03 |
| koivula | I thought Nokia started to boost their Email-client development across the platforms when they started collecting passwords ;) | 19:03 |
| Shapeshifter | why do people want it | 19:03 |
| sheepbat | it's easier for one-handed use | 19:04 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Ok, now there's something concrete. You have a list of things that's not ok. If those get fixed before the next device, you'll be all sunshine? | 19:04 |
| Shapeshifter | sheepbat: what are you doing with the other hand? | 19:04 |
| sheepbat | and text is easier to read in portrait mode | 19:04 |
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| Andy80 | oh... and we're still waiting for accelerated (using 3d chip) Flash plugin | 19:04 |
| Shapeshifter | sheepbat: text? why? it's less space per line | 19:04 |
| sheepbat | right | 19:04 |
| Shapeshifter | you have to be linejump more | 19:04 |
| Hukka | Andy80: That's hardly something Nokia can influence | 19:04 |
| wazd | Andy80: ask adobe for it | 19:04 |
| sheepbat | long lines are bad for readability | 19:04 |
| range | And it's smaller. | 19:04 |
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| Hukka | Adobe either gets it done or not | 19:04 |
| Shapeshifter | sheepbat: they aren't "long" exactly | 19:04 |
| range | I really can't read things when the browser is in portrait mode. | 19:04 |
| Shapeshifter | sheepbat: on your normal computer, you don't complain that the lines are 30cm wide | 19:05 |
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| sheepbat | actually, I keep all my windows smaller | 19:05 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: Skype hasn't developed the client for N900 by their own idea :D Nokia paied them to do it :P | 19:05 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: and so Nokia decides | 19:05 |
| sheepbat | and have a key shortcut specifically to make the windows themselves basically portrait | 19:05 |
| sheepbat | this IRC window, for instance, is less than half my screen width | 19:06 |
| wazd | Andy80: you really have details of that agreement? | 19:06 |
| Hukka | Andy80: You really think that not having flash 10.1 is because Nokia didn't pay for it yet? | 19:06 |
| Hukka | Yeah, right... | 19:06 |
| Jophish_n900 | speaking of the browser being in portrait mode. Is there any way in which to get a toolbar in a portrait browser? to close the window, or view history? | 19:06 |
| Hukka | I think I'll calmly step right over there, a bit farther away... | 19:06 |
| javispedro | Hukka: you don't think money fixes everything??? crazy! | 19:07 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: it's just my hopinion... I'm not free to expose a my idea? | 19:07 |
| Hukka | javispedro: Nothing fixes flash :) | 19:07 |
| sheepbat | zing! | 19:07 |
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| Hukka | Nor maybe windows | 19:07 |
| Hukka | (Duck & cover :) | 19:07 |
| javispedro | ca-ching! | 19:07 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 19:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | i sent a patch to xerces co apache.org | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | they took it in <5 days (including a weekend) | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | i sent a patch to nokia care of symbian.org | 19:08 |
| Hukka | Andy80: Flash 10.1 is a _bit_ larger than N900 | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | they said it'll take them months before they can consider it | 19:08 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: what do you mean with "larger" ? | 19:08 |
| Shapeshifter | flash needs to die out | 19:08 |
| Shapeshifter | stop caring about it | 19:08 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: did they say why? | 19:09 |
| javispedro | flash is one of the sellpoints of the n9000 | 19:09 |
| slonopotamus | why we don't have fremantle booting from sd yet? smth like, copy rootfs to 2gb card and pivot_root there early in boot process. | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: yes | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | they have a huge fork between Symbian^3 and Symbian^4 | 19:09 |
| Hukka | Andy80: It's not on N900 because they are lazy. It's not anywhere at all, so far. | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and can't juggle stuff because of it | 19:09 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: oh joy of joys | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | externally they're using mercurial | 19:09 |
| Hukka | And the whole point of 10.1 is the hw acceleration, which is a huge selling point in every arch. | 19:09 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm fairly certain i don't want to know what they're using internally | 19:09 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: CVS! | 19:09 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: the usual "give customers what they want even if they dont need it and even if its utter crap" metality. | 19:09 |
| w00t | RCS! :P | 19:10 |
| Shapeshifter | rather make html5 working in microb. | 19:10 |
| vmlemon_ | Weren't Nokia using Perforce still? | 19:10 |
| Hukka | N900 is a blip in Adobe's radar. A nice demo gadget, maybe, but nothing like a noticable user base | 19:10 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: actually, better still: cp foo.c foo.bak | 19:10 |
| vmlemon_ | *Aren't | 19:10 |
| marienz | "CVS: Conceivably Versions Something" | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | vmlemon_: i really have no idea | 19:10 |
| Hukka | Andy80: While with skype, they already had everything they needed. Only matter of porting to N900 | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | marienz: hey, it's better than svn | 19:10 |
| * timeless_mbp hates svn | 19:10 | |
| Andy80 | Hukka: I didn't announce "N900 will be one of the first devices to have Flash 10.1" THEY did :) | 19:10 |
| * marienz pets svn | 19:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | i still have a broken svn netcat of kde.org | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | which i can't rsync | 19:10 |
| zap | Is there any way to get a notification when device gets locked/unlocked? | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | because it dies in the process | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | marienz: wanna help me try to figure that one out? | 19:11 |
| Hukka | Andy80: And have you seen it on other devices? No. You think Nokia funds the whole R&D? | 19:11 |
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| marienz | timeless_mbp: err, I'd rather not, sorry | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | marienz: would rsync "foo:/x/x/x/x/x/x/x/1*" . | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | do something useful? | 19:11 |
| javispedro | Hukka: I'm pretty sure Nokia "ported" Skype (Skype ships a binary library, Nokia made the telepathy plugin) | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | the directory i'm trying to rsync has way too many files | 19:11 |
| Hukka | This has nothing to with Harmattan nor Meego anymore. This is just about finding points to whine and gripe. I don't even care about flash, I disabled it within a week I got N900 | 19:12 |
| w00t | javispedro: at least, skype said that they worked on it together | 19:12 |
| marienz | timeless_mbp: what, you're making rsync blow up by transferring too much through it? I didn't know that was possible | 19:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | marienz: hold on | 19:12 |
| Andy80 | Hukka: you disabled because you don't use youtube maybe... but I use it | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on | 19:13 |
| Andy80 | and lot of people do | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | rpool/export/home/timeless/devel/kde.org 61Gi 9.8Gi 51Gi 17% /Users/timeless/devel/kde.org | 19:13 |
| thresh | it is possible if you have slow network between your files and rsync timeouts in reading / waiting for other side to read the directory | 19:13 |
| thresh | this is configurable, of course | 19:13 |
| thresh | and 61G is nothing | 19:13 |
| thresh | well, if you have 61 billion files, it might be bad | 19:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | thresh: the 61gb is a junk number | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | size = used + avail | 19:14 |
| marienz | thresh: notice 61G is just the filesystem size. 9.8Gi used is less than nothing. | 19:14 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 19:14 | |
| thresh | ahd[B[Bah right | 19:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | rpool/export/home/timeless/devel/kde.org referenced 9.82G - | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | rpool/export/home/timeless/devel/kde.org compressratio 1.24x - | 19:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure the repo is supposed to be 60gb | 19:15 |
| marienz | still, pretty sure folks are routinely mirroring several GB through rsync | 19:15 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders what happened to the rest of it | 19:15 | |
| timeless_mbp | marienz: they don't have nokia proxies :) | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | or whatever crazy routing i'm using | 19:15 |
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| lizardo | alterego: there is no "uitools" module in Qt for Maemo 5 :( I existed in ther early times, but was dropped (I don't remember why) to see that , try running : "apt-cache search uitools" | 19:16 |
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| Andy80 | lizardo: you always remember me this bad thing :P | 19:17 |
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| Andy80 | lizardo: it's clear they want to promote DUI only | 19:18 |
| lizardo | Andy80: yes, and now with the final release, it's written on stone :( | 19:18 |
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| alterego | lizardo: is there no way to load .ui files then? :( | 19:20 |
| thresh | what's that DUI? | 19:20 |
| thresh | that is in extras-devel | 19:20 |
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| lizardo | alterego: Andy80 might know better as he tried that some time ago :) | 19:20 |
| Hukka | thresh: gitorius | 19:20 |
| Andy80 | lizardo: yes, I tried and I simply decided to stop writing the GUI until something decent is made public :P I really don't want to become crazy "designing" a UI with vbox/hbox coding style :P | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | timeless-mbp-2:revs timeless$ ls |wc -l | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | 243409 | 19:22 |
| wazd | X-Fade: no, haven't received any emails | 19:22 |
| alterego | lizardo: well, apparently qt creator support will be added to MADDE for PR1.2, so I'd presume that means they're going to reimplement it ... | 19:22 |
| lizardo | alterego: sorry, but don't know much of .ui files to know that ... Better ask someone who actually tried it ... I'm only saying is : there is no QtUiTools module in Maemo 5, so PySide can't support it | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | i think the problem is that it dies trying to scan that | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, duh | 19:22 |
| X-Fade | thresh: Maem 6 UI framework | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, this is the wrong computer | 19:22 |
| thresh | timeless_mbp: that's nothing for rsync | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | the real repo is 60gb | 19:22 |
| Andy80 | I wrote a draft of a UI and after 1 month I really don't know how to touch the code to modify it :P | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | this is my failed attempt at an rsync, which died at 10gb :) | 19:22 |
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| alterego | Andy80: right, same position I'm in then :P | 19:23 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Then the limit isn't reached yet or so. | 19:23 |
| wazd | X-Fade: aaah | 19:23 |
| Andy80 | I know that Beethoven composed music even without being able to hear it... but we're not all Beethoven :D | 19:23 |
| wazd | X-Fade: found it in spam :P | 19:23 |
| thresh | timeless_mbp: what are the options of your rsync command line? | 19:23 |
| X-Fade | wazd: lol | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | thresh: how much time do you have available? | 19:23 |
| lizardo | alterego: You can transform your question in a general one and ask it on the Qt interest mailing list (or on #qt) : e.g. "Can I load .ui files on Qt for Maemo5" | 19:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd like to do something else now before i vpn in and check the right computer | 19:24 |
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| thresh | timeless_mbp: i plan to go asleep in 3 hours | 19:24 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:24 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, let's talk in an hour? | 19:24 |
| thresh | sure | 19:24 |
| alterego | lizardo: I'd rather write my own Python pure XML interpreter for .ui files :P | 19:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyway, i think that roughly there are a million files in the directory | 19:24 |
| w00t | as far as I understand it (wrt .ui files), the tool for compiling them isn't built on maemo | 19:24 |
| w00t | but can be built manually | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | thresh: is there a way to do "1?????" ? | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | (msdos notation) | 19:25 |
| lizardo | alterego: just asking is easier ;) | 19:25 |
| w00t | I may be utterly wrong, I'm not having a good day, just repeating what I seem to remember from #qt-maemo | 19:25 |
| thresh | timeless_mbp: you mean where? | 19:25 |
| alterego | w00t: compiling? I thought they were interpreter at run time? | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | thresh: as the specifier to tell rsync what to sync | 19:25 |
| thresh | timeless_mbp: yeah, use --exclude and --include | 19:25 |
| w00t | alterego: bah, let me go find logs so I can be sure of what I'm talking about | 19:25 |
| aziwoqpd | i've compiled .ui files in scratchbox | 19:25 |
| Andy80 | lizardo: the lastest announce about QtQuick looks quite clear about what they want to do about UI designing... | 19:26 |
| alterego | w00t: don't bother I think I've found it :P | 19:26 |
| lizardo | Andy80: link? | 19:26 |
| Andy80 | lizardo: sometimes you really surprise me, really :D | 19:26 |
| lizardo | Andy80: on Qt land , I monitor the qt labs blogs and that's it :) | 19:27 |
| alterego | w00t: I think it would involve me writing wrappers for my compiled UI widgets unfortunately. | 19:27 |
| lizardo | Andy80: never hear of "QtQuick" , really :) | 19:27 |
| alterego | And, tbh, that is not where code needs to be optimmized ^.^ | 19:27 |
| lizardo | heard* | 19:27 |
| Andy80 | lizardo: wait I go to find the link again... | 19:27 |
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| w00t | http://pastebin.com/d2d575f0d <--- alterego | 19:29 |
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| Andy80 | lizardo: http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2010/02/15/meet-qt-quick/ | 19:30 |
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| thresh | \o/ working sharing plugin for yandex fotki | 19:31 |
| lizardo | Andy80: I never understood why they have two separate blog sytes :) | 19:31 |
| lizardo | sites* | 19:31 |
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| Andy80 | lizardo: the thing that really surprise me is that is not the first time you (and your team) are not aware about something Nokia s working to :\ just like Python was (maybe it is) a secondary objective | 19:32 |
| Andy80 | lizardo: take this as my personal hopinion too :P | 19:32 |
| lizardo | Andy80: oh Qt Quick == Declarative UI, I knew about it, just didn't know the "cute" name :) | 19:33 |
| Andy80 | lizardo: this sounds better to me :) | 19:33 |
| lizardo | Andy80: we are not nokia... | 19:33 |
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| alterego | w00t: you're a genius :) | 19:35 |
| * alterego thinks maemo.org should have an AdHoc karma facility so he can donate some karma to w00t :) | 19:35 | |
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| w00t | alterego: or just cursed with a far too good memory :p | 19:36 |
| alterego | :) | 19:36 |
| alterego | Andy80: git clone git://gitorious.org/pyside/pyside-tools.git - check that out, command line tool to turn .ui files into .py files :) | 19:37 |
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| alterego | That should really be on the wiki some where. | 19:37 |
| Andy80 | alterego: don't know how_much/if that tool is updated... maybe lizardo can tell us something more. By the way, I don't think it supports "all" the Maemo related UI. It's useless to design a UI with QtDesigner if you see it how it looks like on a desktop PC. Maemo UI is quite different: checkboxes, scroll boxes, ecc.... all is different | 19:39 |
| alterego | Andy80: agreed, but it's something I can build on. | 19:39 |
| wazd | X-Fade: so, I've promoted the package, that's it? :) | 19:40 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Do I need to make it harder? | 19:40 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: yep :D | 19:41 |
| lizardo | Andy80 , alterego , w00t : what I can say is that pyside-tools has not received many updates lately ... As I said I know nearly nothing about .ui files , but I ask if you can try it on current Maemo and report issues it would be really nice :) | 19:41 |
| lizardo | there is a "pyside-tools" package on extras-devel | 19:41 |
| alterego | lizardo: awesome, thanks. | 19:42 |
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| lizardo | and report on #pyside (or on PySide bugzilla ) any problems you have using it on Maemo | 19:43 |
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| lizardo | Andy80: if I understood correctly, the QtQuick think was only announced today, right ? | 19:44 |
| Andy80 | lizardo: to the "big public" yes, but it's basically the DUI stuff, nothing more, nothing less | 19:45 |
| lizardo | Andy80: do you know "Declarative UI" is not the same as "DUI" , right ? | 19:46 |
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| lizardo | Andy80: actually one has nothing to do with the other , AFAIK | 19:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | timeless-mbp-2:mw timeless$ rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at /SourceCache/rsync/rsync-35.2/rsync/main.c(992) [sender=2.6.9] | 19:47 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 19:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | what does that mean? | 19:47 |
| timeless_mbp | does that mean it "finished"? | 19:47 |
| lizardo | Andy80: declarative UI (the technology employed on QtQuick) is new way do design UIs , which AFAIK is based on QGraphicsView | 19:47 |
| FIQ | i think i've d/c-ed 5 times since i joined | 19:48 |
| FIQ | hm, no | 19:48 |
| FIQ | 10 times on this network | 19:48 |
| FIQ | i joined 30mins ago | 19:48 |
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| uhsf | windows phone 7 looks very crappy | 19:50 |
| wao | which one doesn't? | 19:50 |
| lizardo | Andy80: DUI (if are referring to things like http://maemo.org/packages/view/dui-demos/) come from "DirectUI" | 19:50 |
| wao | uhsf: did you see android 2.1 from world mobile congress in barcelona? | 19:51 |
| Andy80 | lizardo: sorry I was playing with maemo6 widgets available in extras-devel :D | 19:51 |
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| Shapeshifter | mhh, there's no way of putting contacts into subgroups, or of deleting contacts from the phone but not from the respecitve IM server (e.g. ICQ) right? | 19:52 |
| uhsf | everybody in comments compare how locked windows is compared to iphone and android. everybody is so ignorant. maemo i millions times more open than any of these. it's the only device that allows me to do what I really want. n900 is the very ONLY device. | 19:52 |
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| uhsf | wao: i didn't. how is it? | 19:53 |
| * javispedro mistypes meego as meebo again | 19:53 | |
| wao | uhsf: looks fine, check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzxpGfvlm9M | 19:53 |
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| wao | at huawei u8110 | 19:53 |
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| penguinbait | me ego is large | 19:54 |
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| KamuiN900 | man | 19:57 |
| KamuiN900 | maemo and moblin? | 19:57 |
| Hukka | Don't you start over here | 19:57 |
| KamuiN900 | say it aint so | 19:57 |
| Hukka | You are late? | 19:57 |
| KamuiN900 | quite | 19:57 |
| Hukka | Do you have logs? | 19:57 |
| Hukka | (I'm ignoring parts and joins) | 19:57 |
| KamuiN900 | just read the news when catching up on rss | 19:57 |
| sheepbat | he just joined, hukka | 19:57 |
| Hukka | Want logs :? | 19:57 |
| Hukka | There's plenty | 19:58 |
| uhsf | what distro is moblin based on? | 19:58 |
| KamuiN900 | how about a 2 sentence summary | 19:58 |
| Hukka | uhsf: Moblin | 19:58 |
| oscillik | two sentence: Kiss N900. Goodbye | 19:58 |
| KamuiN900 | like n900 unaffected, maemo community generally pissed | 19:58 |
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| uhsf | i wonder how they will merge debian based with moblin | 19:58 |
| Hukka | KamuiN900: Harmattan is not Meego, but meego-compatible. Source will come in few weeks, then we know what's what. | 19:58 |
| simula_away | what packaging system? | 19:59 |
| uhsf | count me in as pissed | 19:59 |
| Hukka | KamuiN900: maemo-community is always pissed | 19:59 |
| Hukka | In general | 19:59 |
| davyg | hello when i try to film something with the n900 camera, i got an error "Echec de l'opération" (don't really know how to translate it, maybe ; operation fail), does someone has this problem a solution ? | 19:59 |
| KamuiN900 | lol | 19:59 |
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| Hukka | simula_away: Read the faq | 19:59 |
| Mousey | proof intel feels like they can't compete | 19:59 |
| lcuk | thats not proof | 19:59 |
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| KamuiN900 | davyg: camera cant be used while audio is in use | 19:59 |
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| KamuiN900 | for some reason | 19:59 |
| davyg | strange but ok and what coold use sound without asking me(i don't listen anything) ? | 20:00 |
| Mousey | lcuk: fine, but it sure -seems- like it ^_^ | 20:01 |
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| Shapeshifter | can someone recommend an mpd client other than this huuge cutempc that I see in the apt manager, which is non-CLI (i.e. not ncmpcpp or the like) | 20:05 |
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| Shapeshifter | one that works nicely on the small screen. | 20:05 |
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| * Mousey pokes destinal-home | 20:07 | |
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| destinal-home | Mousey: :) | 20:13 |
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| jorma | /join #meego | 20:19 |
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| jorma | god i hate the move from apt/debian to moblin's rpm/fedora | 20:21 |
| johnsu01 | I couldn't be sadder about the whole thing :( | 20:21 |
| petteri | i think intel devs are only ones happy with that change :/ | 20:22 |
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| johnsu01 | discouraging use of the GPL? Whatever. | 20:22 |
| johnsu01 | Shapeshifter: mmpc | 20:23 |
| luke-jr | johnsu01: encouraging GPLv2, from their site | 20:24 |
| * simula_ just bought "The Debian System" yesterday :P hehe | 20:25 | |
| johnsu01 | luke-jr: not for the "user experience" -- they are pushing BSD licensing | 20:27 |
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| tadthebuilder | meego | 20:27 |
| Shapeshifter | johnsu01: thanks | 20:27 |
| johnsu01 | how they think this policy is inline with distributions' licensing policy -- where everything is predominantly GPL and these days GPLv3, is beyond me | 20:28 |
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| johnsu01 | as is how they think having a GPL system supports proprietary plugins | 20:28 |
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| uhsf | open source or not, symbian s^3 really has nothing on maemo | 20:29 |
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| uhsf | it's really the linux mobile day today, i wasn't expecting thiss | 20:29 |
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| tadthebuilder | is there any chance that since meego will be more fully open source then maemo that it might be more easily back ported to the n800 or n810? | 20:30 |
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| davyg | is there a command to know which apply use the sound system on maemo ? | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | tadthebuilder: unsure, let's see the code first. | 20:31 |
| tadthebuilder | ah true I guess that is important haha | 20:31 |
| tadthebuilder | i just want more life for my n800... | 20:31 |
| johnsu01 | tadthebuilder: personally I don't think there's any reason to believe this will be any more free than maemo | 20:31 |
| luke-jr | tadthebuilder: N8x0 would require open source hardware support first | 20:32 |
| tadthebuilder | ah true | 20:32 |
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| tadthebuilder | it will most likely be more open source since the linux foundation is having a hand in it correct | 20:32 |
| johnsu01 | tadthebuilder: the current proprietary components on the n900 etc would just be justified as "proprietary extensions" | 20:32 |
| wiretapped | anyone here used confml on maemo? | 20:32 |
| tadthebuilder | ah, as in not considered the OS but things that run on top of it? | 20:32 |
| uhsf | i really don't understand people complaining. personnally, i would be happy to use maemo as it is now on my n900 for years | 20:32 |
| wiretapped | google indicates it existed once | 20:32 |
| luke-jr | tadthebuilder: "Linux Foundation" has what real relevance exactly? | 20:33 |
| tadthebuilder | I was assuming they would have a stronger stance of free software than nokia or intel | 20:33 |
| tadthebuilder | alone | 20:33 |
| Andrewfblack | Hello | 20:33 |
| tadthebuilder | uhsf: I think the main problem would be the fact that people would stop making software for it thus you would have less programs to work with | 20:34 |
| uhsf | the main purpose for my n900 is being a phone. and it couldn't do this any better. | 20:35 |
| tadthebuilder | if you wanted a phone | 20:36 |
| tadthebuilder | why did you pay 500 dollars? | 20:36 |
| uhsf | i have a real micropc for my computing needs | 20:36 |
| tadthebuilder | you can get a phone that makes call for like 15 | 20:36 |
| tadthebuilder | so thats what you wanted | 20:36 |
| uhsf | i chose the n900 because i'm a real linux fan | 20:36 |
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| uhsf | and i don't regret it one bit | 20:36 |
| kynky | thought main purpose of n900 was a mid ? | 20:36 |
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| sheepbat | yes, I consider it a mid too... | 20:37 |
| sobczyk | can the n900 connect to internet through usb (not the other way around) :) | 20:37 |
| uhsf | of course i will use it as it's full capabilities | 20:37 |
| kynky | n900 can do anything :) | 20:37 |
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| uhsf | ssh, etc | 20:37 |
| valdyn | sobczyk: if ovi suite worked | 20:37 |
| wiretapped | sobczyk: sure, though it isnt supported | 20:37 |
| wiretapped | google usbnet | 20:37 |
| sobczyk | I have linux no internet data of wifi and want to do update | 20:37 |
| uhsf | but that's just a big plus. maybe my expectations were lower after owning a neo freerunner | 20:38 |
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| uhsf | the news i'm most disappointed in today is buglabs supporting android. they really should have chosen maemo | 20:39 |
| luke-jr | uhsf: chosen Maemo how? | 20:40 |
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| luke-jr | uhsf: Maemo is not licensed to third-parties AFAIK | 20:40 |
| javispedro | also, maemo no longer exists. | 20:40 |
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| * oscillik checks his N900 | 20:41 | |
| oscillik | Maemo exists! | 20:42 |
| oscillik | i have seen it! | 20:42 |
| pronto | i've seen it as well o= | 20:42 |
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| sobczyk | do I void my warrant by rooting n900? | 20:44 |
| microlith | sobczyk: no | 20:44 |
| MohammadAG | no | 20:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, interesting. | 20:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I guess Joiku is publishing to Extras? | 20:46 |
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| |R | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4929 <- any news on SIP URI Dialing solutions? | 20:46 |
| povbot` | Bug 4929: Direct (no proxy or registrar) SIP URI dialing | 20:46 |
| luke-jr | sobczyk: you can't void warranties by rooting devices, at least in the US | 20:46 |
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| TheOne | hi @all | 20:48 |
| TheOne | i read that maemo and moblin get together | 20:48 |
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| TheOne | does anyone know wether MeeGoo will run with the nokia n900 ? | 20:49 |
| villemv | TheOne: they are partying at #meego | 20:49 |
| timeless_mbp | |R: so um | 20:49 |
| * simula_ chuckles | 20:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | it would seem that if you want that to work | 20:49 |
| timeless_mbp | you'll have to write a sip account provider | 20:50 |
| timeless_mbp | at least, i don't see why a framework should 'magically' do this for you | 20:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a layering violation | 20:50 |
| TheOne | ohh okay, i doent recognize that they have an extra channel, thx i will ask there ;) | 20:50 |
| timeless_mbp | |R: telepathy is open source and pluggable | 20:50 |
| timeless_mbp | write a demo | 20:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you can make it compelling and easy to deal with, maybe we can get it integrated | 20:50 |
| timeless_mbp | worst case, people can install it | 20:50 |
| |R | timeless_mbp: well, it should just allow me to write user@sipprovider.com | 20:51 |
| |R | that's what a SIP phone is (in part) for :) | 20:51 |
| |R | but yes i can setup aliases on an asterisk box... | 20:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | |R: framework based software doesn't work that way | 20:51 |
| |R | that just sucks to centralize a decentralized solution | 20:51 |
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| uhsf | i'm happy to have chosen maemo before the meego announcement because i'm now part of the true pionneers of the origins of the first and biggest free software movement for mobile devices | 20:52 |
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| b0unc3 | guys, someone know how to "translate" the Name field in the .desktop file ? ( e.g. Name=sket_ap_sketch_title ) | 20:54 |
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| SplasPood | |R: I assume if you do have a SIP account configured URI dialing works fine (assuming your provider handles?) | 20:58 |
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| valdyn | b0unc3: Name[fi]="foo" | 21:02 |
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| RST38h | Moo. | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | moo | 21:03 |
| |R | SplasPood: well, from a software client on a linux box yes | 21:03 |
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| SplasPood | |R: no, i mean from the N900 when you have a sip account configured/enabled, does it then work | 21:03 |
| |R | SplasPood: ekiga -> asterisk sip user or some such... | 21:04 |
| |R | SplasPood: well i don't think you can enter user@someip.net as a telephone number | 21:04 |
| |R | that's the only problem | 21:04 |
| SplasPood | Hrm, interesting.. yet it still says No sip accounts avail? | 21:04 |
| |R | or maybe i'm lost... let me try again :P | 21:04 |
| SplasPood | Which, to me at least, implies it at least KNOWS it should be using sip | 21:05 |
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| |R | so, no it only allows numbers, +, #, and such | 21:05 |
| |R | oh wait | 21:05 |
| |R | nevermind, i just made a fool of myself | 21:06 |
| |R | if i select sip (not in cell mode) then i can type letters | 21:06 |
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| |R | big oopsie ;) | 21:06 |
| SplasPood | ahh, yea it's a bit confusing in that regard | 21:06 |
| |R | well, I'm a happy camper then, just waiting for Bug 6936 and it'll be perfect :P | 21:07 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6936 Caller voice gets minced after some time when taking call via SIP | 21:07 |
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| |R | but i guess you still need a connected SIP account | 21:07 |
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| MohammadAG | skype doesn't seem to be working for me | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | keeps saying authentication failed | 21:10 |
| zash | MohammadAG: that would be the default state ;) | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | readding the account says wrong username and pass | 21:10 |
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| MohammadAG | lol zash | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | i need skype | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | for call out (and to abuse its US number) | 21:11 |
| timeless_mbp | b0unc3: you can add a domain field | 21:12 |
| timeless_mbp | which is how nokia does it | 21:12 |
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| MohammadAG | (anyone else having my problem?) | 21:12 |
| timeless_mbp | b0unc3: X-Text-Domain= | 21:13 |
| timeless_mbp | that's used in conjunction with Name= to resolve Name's identifier to a localized string | 21:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | valdyn: please don't recommend Name[..] | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it doesn't scale | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it means that if someone later wants to add Chinese or whatever, they can't | 21:14 |
| pupnik_ | Evidence now available from various sources, including recently declassified U.S. State Department documents, shows that the Taliban regime led by Mullah Mohammad Omar imposed strict isolation on Osama bin Laden after 1998 to prevent him from carrying out any plots against the United States. | 21:14 |
| pupnik_ | damn | 21:14 |
| timeless_mbp | |R: yeah, sip address dialing works, i've used it | 21:14 |
| |R | timeless_mbp: my bad, but the account requirement is still a (much more minor) problem... :) | 21:15 |
| pupnik_ | http://tomasz.sterna.tv/2010/02/play-games-on-nokia-n900-with-ps3-sixaxis-controller/ | 21:15 |
| RST38h | pupnik: That has been known before | 21:15 |
| b0unc3 | timeless_mbp, so I can use gettext to let my software translate it , right ? | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | |R: as i said, write an account provider | 21:15 |
| pupnik_ | anyone here done this? | 21:15 |
| timeless_mbp | b0unc3: well err | 21:15 |
| pupnik_ | RST38h: i need a pastebuffer previewer | 21:15 |
| MohammadAG | pupnik_, yeah | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | you can use a .po file to generate a .mo file | 21:16 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Basically they could not get rid of him, as it was against all the muslim hospitality rules | 21:16 |
| timeless_mbp | and hildon will use that to show the appropriate translated string | 21:16 |
| pupnik_ | did sixpair work for you MohammadAG ? | 21:16 |
| RST38h | pupnik: So they did the next possible thing, i.e. isolated him | 21:16 |
| wiretapped | whoa... did maemo die today? | 21:16 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Not that it worked on Americans, bent on bombing some ass "for the country" | 21:16 |
| MohammadAG | sixpair? | 21:17 |
| * pupnik_ is sorry for pastefail :( | 21:17 | |
| b0unc3 | timeless_mbp, my only problem is to translate the Name field on the .desktop file... not how to create it... | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG | oh did it on windows | 21:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | b0unc3: sorry, confused | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG | was away somewhere, and linux wasn't installed on the pc i used | 21:17 |
| timeless_mbp | you write: | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG | but yeah it should work pupnik | 21:17 |
| RST38h | pupnik: It is actually funny, because most of these "news" have been known when the war just started, but ignored then =( | 21:17 |
| timeless_mbp | Name=my_ap_name_identifier | 21:17 |
| |R | timeless_mbp: wish i knew how / could :) | 21:17 |
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| MohammadAG | pupnik_, * | 21:17 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Text-Domain=my_ap_name | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | then you write my_ap_name.po with | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | msgid "my_ap_name_identifier" | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | msgstr "I suck" | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | then you use msgfmt to compile my_ap_name.po into my_ap_name.mo | 21:18 |
| timeless_mbp | then you drop my_ap_name.mo into the appropriate /usr/share/locale/$LANG/LC_MESSAGES | 21:18 |
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| * timeless_mbp tries to understand where the complicated step is | 21:19 | |
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| pupnik_ | can i edit /usr/share/applications/hildon/osso-xterm.desktop to start a *new* terminal instance? | 21:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | pupnik: iirc there's a way to do what you want, yes | 21:22 |
| b0unc3 | timeless_mbp, you didn't understand my question (probably for my bad english), btw I understood how I can solve my problem... thanks anyway ;) | 21:22 |
| * pupnik_ tries to think real hard | 21:22 | |
| timeless_mbp | b0unc3: your question didn't make any sense | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | gettext is a program which is used to extract localizable strings from a source file | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | .desktop files are not typically considered source files | 21:23 |
| keesj | ALL YOUR COMMUNITIES ARE BELONG TO US. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | so you can't use gettext | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | however, gettext is the underlying technology used by hildon-desktop to convert your Name + X-Text-Domain into a localized string | 21:24 |
| keesj | beceaus that's how open source commuinities work | 21:24 |
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| etamme | i put some flac files on my n900 and i can not get the media player to detect them.... i installed ogg support, and extra codec support | 21:24 |
| etamme | but... they just dont show | 21:24 |
| lardman | evening | 21:24 |
| keesj | hi | 21:25 |
| etamme | if i go to file browser, i can click on them and they play | 21:25 |
| etamme | but the media player just doesnt "see" them | 21:25 |
| etamme | any ideas? | 21:25 |
| valdyn | etamme: proper support is in extras-devel iirc | 21:25 |
| lardman | hi keesj | 21:25 |
| etamme | valdyn, is this all b/c of the tags? | 21:25 |
| lardman | interesting to see the it's not using .deb tantrums | 21:25 |
| valdyn | etamme: I have no idea, works for me however | 21:26 |
| keesj | the mer people worked on the suse build servers *rpm* based stuff | 21:26 |
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| b0unc3 | timeless_mbp, I try to explain : I have an app that read all the .desktop and return the Name field. Now I would that when the name is e.g. Name=sket_ap_sketch_title it automatically translate it, understand now ? | 21:26 |
| keesj | packaging is just to complicated anyway :p | 21:26 |
| etamme | valdyn what did you install to get it to work? | 21:26 |
| wiretapped | RIP hildon? | 21:26 |
| timeless_mbp | b0unc3: there's a gettext function where you can provide the domain | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd use that and pass the value from X-Text-Domain | 21:27 |
| valdyn | etamme: i believe its the new ogg support package | 21:27 |
| etamme | valdyn, ok | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | and yes, that's almost understandable | 21:27 |
| valdyn | etamme: what was the name? you can look at the changelog from the n900 gui package manager | 21:27 |
| b0unc3 | timeless_mbp, ok, thanks for your help ;) | 21:27 |
| timeless_mbp | b0unc3: your original question was parsed by everyone as "i want to write a localizable .desktop file, how do i do it?" | 21:28 |
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| etamme | my device always locks up for a while installing codedc related stuff... then i pretty much have to reboot it for the media player to work at all | 21:28 |
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| etamme | haha | 21:28 |
| timeless_mbp | because when people normally say "how do i translate" they mean "I want to write an app with support for translations" | 21:28 |
| b0unc3 | timeless_mbp, I'm sorry for my bad english :( | 21:28 |
| timeless_mbp | b0unc3: don't be sorry. learn. | 21:28 |
| b0unc3 | timeless_mbp, sure | 21:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | you shouldn't have used 'translate' in your question | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | because you aren't translating, you're converting and displaying *using* the existing translations | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | had you used those magic words, you would have gotten the answer you sought | 21:29 |
| timeless_mbp | make sense? | 21:29 |
| b0unc3 | timeless_mbp, yes | 21:30 |
| timeless_mbp | good :) | 21:30 |
| lardman | hmm, not so impressed with KDE, all the fonts are too small | 21:30 |
| valdyn | lardman: thats configurable | 21:30 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: Maemo historically has not provided correct DPI info for X11 | 21:30 |
| lardman | valdyn: yeah, but seems to vary between apps too | 21:30 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: desktop actually | 21:31 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: oh, heh | 21:31 |
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| valdyn | lardman: that should not be the case | 21:31 |
| aSIMULAtor | hi timeless | 21:31 |
| etamme | valdyn, nice - works now thanks | 21:31 |
| timeless_mbp | hiya | 21:31 |
| timeless_mbp | following the news? | 21:31 |
| guysoft42 | bloody paper - I sent them that Limo is not Mobolin, they changed it, and censored my comment! | 21:31 |
| aSIMULAtor | yep | 21:31 |
| lardman | valdyn: perhaps the apps just need a restart, will test | 21:31 |
| timeless_mbp | guysoft42: revisionist history :) | 21:32 |
| * timeless_mbp approves | 21:32 | |
| aSIMULAtor | well, in the long run it's good news | 21:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | your comment wouldn't have made sense after they fixed the article | 21:32 |
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| guysoft42 | timeless, yes, but it means i wrote the data in the article, not their stupid reporter | 21:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | guysoft42: i'd bet their editor keeps score and the reporter will suffer if the score gets too out of whack | 21:33 |
| timeless_mbp | don't sweat it | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | aSIMULAtor: i wonder if the debianites in maemo are throwing chairs yet | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I feel like this merger should be something to motivate both communities. | 21:33 |
| * GeneralAntilles mostly feels like he's been punched in the stomach. | 21:33 | |
| guysoft42 | timeless_mbp, i dont think so | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: it felt like that for a while for me too but it got better | 21:33 |
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| Arif | wow | 21:33 |
| aSIMULAtor | yeah when i read the articles about it, have to admit, that was the same reaction | 21:34 |
| Arif | I charged the N900 24 hours ago and the battery only went down 1 bar | 21:34 |
| Arif | ÞD | 21:34 |
| Arif | :D | 21:34 |
| RST38h | aSimula | 21:34 |
| * simula_ 's feeling better too | 21:34 | |
| RST38h | moo. | 21:34 |
| aSIMULAtor | oh HAI! | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, there's a lot of emotional stuff tied up in a community like this. | 21:34 |
| aSIMULAtor | oh there's another simulator | 21:34 |
| aSIMULAtor | in here | 21:34 |
| RST38h | they breed! | 21:34 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtor: yeah, that one's confusing | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: of course, and i had Mer included in it too, and well, my job, too | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, having somebody come in and invalidate most of that isn't a good way to go about it. | 21:34 |
| simula_ | nah, i'm simula... like simula67 | 21:34 |
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| aSIMULAtor | i guessed that... :P | 21:35 |
| timeless_mbp | ah, persistence pays off | 21:35 |
| timeless_mbp | TestChidlrenSelectionL | 21:35 |
| simula_ | heh :) | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, it's going to be a problem with Moblin having such a small community and MeeGo having only technical direction. | 21:35 |
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| lardman | does video calling work with Skype on the N900? | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i think it's where we fit in. | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, rumor says PR1.2. | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: it's a land rush :P | 21:36 |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: ah, so best not hope to have a video call with my parents atm then | 21:36 |
| * lardman fires up the laptop which should at least work | 21:36 | |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: thanks btw | 21:37 |
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| asj_ | so what's new overnight folks? | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | oh boy, where do we startt | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | asj_: http://www.meego.com | 21:40 |
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| asj_ | yeah that mess broke just befor eI went to bed | 21:41 |
| Arif | so we have Maemo 6 and meego? | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Are we really going to be building our future community on DRUPAL?. . .. | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: well, drupal or midgard | 21:41 |
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| Stskeeps | choose your poison | 21:41 |
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| asj_ | the more places Qt goes the better for me, I just can't stomach going from debs to rpm <puke> | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, Midgard. . . . | 21:42 |
| javispedro | the devil you know... | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | zerojay: the plus side is that things seem to start out as a public bugtracker :P | 21:43 |
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| woglinde | jo | 21:44 |
| * javispedro is on #meebo just counting number of people who mistype it | 21:44 | |
| woglinde | seems maemo is going to rpm | 21:44 |
| woglinde | than I will say goodbye | 21:44 |
| MiXu- | meebo is that IM service | 21:44 |
| MiXu- | .com | 21:44 |
| javispedro | MiXu-: yep, which I typed nearly a billion of times before getting my tablet, so ... muscle memory. | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | woglinde, we've still got, like, 2 years. | 21:45 |
| MiXu- | :) | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | woglinde, Maemo community is big with lots of clout. | 21:45 |
| javispedro | s/of/ | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | woglinde, we'll just steamroll them back. | 21:45 |
| woglinde | I dont think mobilin will switch back | 21:45 |
| woglinde | or maybee they will | 21:45 |
| woglinde | after seeing the rpm mess | 21:45 |
| wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: i really hope you're right :) | 21:45 |
| * GeneralAntilles feels a bit steamrolled today. | 21:45 | |
| wiretapped | but I don't think so :( | 21:45 |
| javispedro | woglinde: they won't switch. they're talking about improving RPM though. | 21:45 |
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| woglinde | javis did you ever try to get kernel-src.rpm | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, that's what they say today after living in their own little world for so long. | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: in other news, the Maemo 6 UI framework is in extras-devel. | 21:46 |
| woglinde | and build kernels out of it | 21:46 |
| woglinde | thats hell | 21:46 |
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| javispedro | woglinde: nope. | 21:46 |
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| javispedro | but my personal opinion is that I'm so tired of the entire packaging wars that I would gladly accept ANY standard, even if it's as ugly as opensolaris packaging. | 21:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, clearly you need to pick up a battle axe and unify them, then. :P | 21:47 |
| RST38h | javispedro: FreeBSD packaging! | 21:47 |
| * RST38h hides | 21:47 | |
| javispedro | heh | 21:47 |
| * GeneralAntilles is already exhausted. | 21:47 | |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: orly? are there any demos already? | 21:48 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: comes with a few | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: widgets-gallery i think | 21:48 |
| * RST38h goes to check | 21:48 | |
| javispedro | I didn't read source code yet though | 21:48 |
| javispedro | but It was on free | 21:48 |
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| RST38h | Sorry to act stupid, but are there screenshots? | 21:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, there's a YouTube video on Planet. | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol, Comcast is rebranding too. | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | The world is ending today. | 21:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: eh?? | 21:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Xfinity | 21:50 |
| javispedro | relol. | 21:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2010/02/13/comcast_enters_rebranding_territory/ | 21:50 |
| * GeneralAntilles should just go back to bed. | 21:50 | |
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| javispedro | it's Xfinitikitastic! | 21:50 |
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| wiretapped | GeneralAntilles: xfinity is days old news | 21:51 |
| woglinde | good nite ga | 21:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, guess I missed it. | 21:51 |
| wiretapped | i would just like to say fucking fuck fuck fuck rpm | 21:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah. :\ | 21:51 |
| pinchartl | hi | 21:51 |
| woglinde | hm seems to braindead to bring now out a android phone with version 1.6 | 21:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles doesn't think Moblin should be dictating that stuff to the larger community. | 21:52 | |
| woglinde | +me | 21:52 |
| * GeneralAntilles is still in favor of steamrolling. :P | 21:52 | |
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| wiretapped | OTOH, http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/01/04/are-maemo5-developer-tools-obsolete/ (yes) | 21:52 |
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| * evilrob just ordered his N900 | 21:52 | |
| wiretapped | As it can be read in many places Maemo is based on Debian. The problem arrives when someone asks ?which version of Debian??? | 21:53 |
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| wiretapped | The answer is ?oldstable? (etch) + parts from ?stable? (lenny) + some updates from ?testing? (squeeze). | 21:53 |
| wiretapped | I can kind of imagine it wasn't too hard for intel to argue against that mess | 21:53 |
| wiretapped | but what is moblin based on? | 21:53 |
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| MiXu- | does it actually matter? | 21:53 |
| javispedro | parts of fedora and opensuse. | 21:53 |
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| javispedro | like maemo, it seems to have evolved into its own distro. | 21:54 |
| MiXu- | Exactly. | 21:54 |
| MiXu- | So what maemo is based on, doesn't really make a difference | 21:54 |
| javispedro | To say it doesn't is ... lying a bit. | 21:54 |
| woglinde | only postive point on moblin is that they are shipping images now with iegd integrated | 21:54 |
| javispedro | It does, specially from a developer perspective. | 21:54 |
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| keesj | the distro? | 21:55 |
| javispedro | Yes | 21:55 |
| javispedro | I guess it doesn't matter to the developers Nokia loves (those who can use Madde for their projects, for example). | 21:55 |
| keesj | because as internal developer for the platorm you need to deliver something special? | 21:56 |
| pupnik_ | i'd like things to go to their own /opt directory by default, with just a symlink to /usr/bin for the .exe | 21:56 |
| pupnik_ | when building in sdk | 21:56 |
| keesj | I tend to care about the developers who use a platform for them it really should not matter the simpler the better | 21:57 |
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| evilrob | pupnik_: that's generally referred to in the unix world as a depot. | 21:57 |
| evilrob | there are depot management tools out there. | 21:57 |
| gjl | Is it possible to alter the playback speed of media played using the kmplayer maemo port? | 21:57 |
| wolf^ | pupnik, that's one macro redefinition in rpm :> | 21:57 |
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| evilrob | you'd see something like a package installed to /opt/depot/<packagename> | 21:57 |
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| gjl | being able to listen to podcasts at high speed would be great | 21:58 |
| pupnik_ | it's a bit fiddly right now. | 21:58 |
| javispedro | keesj: for example, it determines the path of config files, packaging policies and tools, etc. | 21:58 |
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| javispedro | it seems to be getting easier now that for example both share upstart-style init files. | 21:58 |
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| keesj | that's all linux standard based not distro stuff(besides the packaging ...) | 21:59 |
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| javispedro | not really. lsb still mandates init.d scripts.. | 21:59 |
| javispedro | and debian has this tradition of modifying every app to its own standards (count the number of .*rc files on $HOME in Debian or Debian-derived and the number of .*rc files in any other distro -- Debian patches packages' config files paths) | 22:01 |
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| wolf^ | javispedro, every distro does that to some extent, but without all that fuss debian is making about it | 22:03 |
| keesj | debian has a good habbit of not following upstream configuration indeed | 22:04 |
| woglinde | hm git 1.7 | 22:04 |
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| javispedro | wolf^: I'm pretty sure Debian does it most, as it causes quite a bit of headaches. | 22:04 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: LSB sucks | 22:04 |
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| wolf^ | javispedro, don't know, don't care really, but the amount of... stuff... about debian politics embedded in packaging instructions is just too much | 22:05 |
| RST38h | Hmm...Looks like Win7 does not have user app multitasking too | 22:05 |
| keesj | but seriousely what I think really is needed is a distro that does cross compilation and at least debian sucks at it ! | 22:05 |
| RST38h | Plus it still looks kinda ugly | 22:05 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: at least it's not yet another iphone clone. | 22:06 |
| luke-jr | keesj: Gentoo | 22:06 |
| javispedro | well, it's a iphone clone, but not 100%. | 22:06 |
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| keesj | gentoo or oe | 22:06 |
| RST38h | javispedro: it is | 22:06 |
| luke-jr | OE isn't a distro :p | 22:06 |
| RST38h | javispedro: just attempting to be "different" by being uglier | 22:06 |
| wolf^ | keesj, pld, but you won't be happy with it | 22:07 |
| keesj | pld? | 22:07 |
| wolf^ | pld-linux.org | 22:07 |
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| embedded | Hi all | 22:08 |
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| woglinde | lol | 22:08 |
| woglinde | http://meego.com/garage | 22:09 |
| keesj | wolf^: downloading :p | 22:09 |
| wolf^ | keesj, main target are developers and administrators | 22:09 |
| wolf^ | keesj, the recommended installation method is from rescue cd | 22:09 |
| keesj | the meego website feels better then maemo and "download" is really about download and not "applications" | 22:09 |
| wolf^ | keesj, maybe there's some user-friendly installer already, but I don't really know | 22:10 |
| RST38h | anyone got maemo6 demo youtube url? | 22:10 |
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| embedded | someone knows how to retrieve a computer IP remotely if the router gets disconnected (I'd like to connect remotely with VNC to my laptop) | 22:11 |
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| wiretapped | embedded: dyndns.com | 22:12 |
| embedded | wiretapped: thx, I'll try it | 22:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | nmap | 22:13 |
| keesj | I wonder if the offering is good enough. will a newbie find qt-creator easy enough? | 22:14 |
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| woglinde | Will MeeGo use .rpm or .deb as its packaging system? MeeGo will use the .rpm format | 22:15 |
| woglinde | okay | 22:15 |
| woglinde | thats it | 22:16 |
| Scelt | :( | 22:16 |
| woglinde | so its seems maemo6 is dead | 22:16 |
| RST38h | rpm | 22:16 |
| Scelt | rpms suck | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | woglinde: who said that? | 22:16 |
| wiretapped | Stskeeps: the meego faq says it | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | woglinde: no, maemo6 | 22:17 |
| wiretapped | but the moblin faq said "Our current build of Moblin v2.0 is made available in the LSB standard RPM packaging format. However, the packaging format does not really impact how the distribution operates. It's quite possible that we, or someone else, will create future builds using the DPKG format." | 22:17 |
| * Trizt likes rpm | 22:17 | |
| woglinde | stskeeps why should nokia pays for 2 platforms | 22:17 |
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| woglinde | trizt any reasons? | 22:18 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, bug 9067 for starters | 22:18 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9067 Consider using RPM Package Manager instead of dpkg | 22:18 |
| Trizt | it has good check of dependency and simple to make working spec files | 22:18 |
| keesj | perhaps maemo security also? | 22:18 |
| keesj | (dead) | 22:19 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, any ARGUMENTS against rpm? | 22:19 |
| woglinde | wolf download kernel-src.rpm from moblin | 22:19 |
| woglinde | and try to build it | 22:19 |
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| wolf^ | woglinde, kernel packages are very distro specific | 22:20 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders what we should do with the council election. . . . | 22:20 | |
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| wolf^ | woglinde, and don't judge rpm by some random distro that uses it | 22:21 |
| LuciusMare | hi, i have got problems when connecting my n900 to my computer, it always mounts as read only | 22:21 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, judge it by a distribution that makes good use of it | 22:21 |
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| sobczyk_ | I'm trying to configure internet through usb im to the pont where I can ping external (internet) pc's from my n900 but can't resolve the hostnames, is there something i've missed? | 22:21 |
| woglinde | wolf which one is this? | 22:21 |
| woglinde | hi kathy | 22:21 |
| RevdKathy | Hi | 22:21 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, read the bug, pld | 22:21 |
| RevdKathy | How is everyone tonight? | 22:21 |
| LuciusMare | even if explicitly told to mount as rw | 22:21 |
| woglinde | wolf the bug is a linux distro which uses rpm right? | 22:22 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, read the references to rpm-devel list, read what rpm developers think about it | 22:22 |
| RST38h | General: Elect Rushmore, Orange, and the rest! | 22:22 |
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| wiretapped | LOL @ bug 9067 "There's no notion of 'upgrade' action in dpkg/apt" | 22:22 |
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| woglinde | wiretapped???? | 22:22 |
| woglinde | lol | 22:22 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, enlighten me | 22:22 |
| wiretapped | apt-get upgrade ? | 22:23 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, it upgrades ALL packages | 22:23 |
| LuciusMare | also, sometimes happens that after umounting it from the computer, it mounts in the tablet as readonly | 22:23 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, I want to upgrade a subset of packages | 22:23 |
| woglinde | wolf????? | 22:23 |
| wiretapped | yeah, you do need to specify them then. | 22:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, confused, feeling a bit betrayed. | 22:23 |
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| wiretapped | not something that is often needed, but easy enough to do | 22:23 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, I need it often | 22:24 |
| RevdKathy | I think a lot of people are feeling like that GeneralAntilles | 22:24 |
| woglinde | ga the others too? ero,x-fade? | 22:24 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, and dpkg makes it hard for me | 22:24 |
| wiretapped | wolf^: if you need to do that often, you're doing it wrong | 22:24 |
| mikhas | well, it's a typical top-bottom management decision, isn't it? | 22:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | woglinde, haven't talked to X-Fade. | 22:24 |
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| RevdKathy | I thought I'd see if the wake was in here - I feel like getting drunk | 22:24 |
| mikhas | communities are replacable, after all | 22:24 |
| trbs2 | wolf^, why ? you can apt-get install | 22:24 |
| woglinde | wolf whats the command with rpm/yum? | 22:24 |
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| trbs2 | packages to upgrade a subselection | 22:24 |
| RevdKathy | I can only guess how it feels for people who've been around ages. I'm only a n00b | 22:24 |
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| woglinde | wolf seems you aren that well with dpkg/apt-get as I with rpm/yum | 22:24 |
| dl9pf | woglinde: tried zypper ? | 22:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, it feels like I'd be feeling better if they hadn't picked such a terrible name and hadn't delivered the announcement like a steamrolling. | 22:25 |
| woglinde | dl9pf nope | 22:25 |
| woglinde | dl9pf another package manager? | 22:25 |
| wolf^ | trbs, how can I upgrade libqt-{a,b,c,d} without upgrading libqt-{e,f,g,h}, assuming I have only the first set installed? | 22:25 |
| dl9pf | try it | 22:25 |
| fnordianslip | Perhaps the Council should resign | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | What is the entemology of the name meego? | 22:25 |
| RevdKathy | Even the council werent told, GA. | 22:25 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, that's what I wrote in bug report | 22:25 |
| woglinde | wolf qt is real bad | 22:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, most of Nokia wasn't told. | 22:26 |
| wolf^ | it's an example | 22:26 |
| * wiretapped raises his drink to RevdKathy | 22:26 | |
| GeneralAntilles | fnordianslip, to what end? | 22:26 |
| sobczyk_ | anyone? I can ping the nameserver but can't ping ie. google.com | 22:26 |
| trbs2 | wolf^, if the packages are interconnected you can't, unless you force it ... which makes sens because it will break stuff horribly | 22:26 |
| woglinde | why the hell you will update libqt-gui and not libqt-svg | 22:26 |
| RevdKathy | As for the name, it embodies everything I hate about capitalist egocentricity and the opposite of what I understand OS to be | 22:26 |
| woglinde | that makes no sense | 22:26 |
| fnordianslip | GeneralAntilles: in protest about being excluded | 22:26 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, it makes sense to me | 22:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | fnordianslip, well, I don't think anybody's been excluded. | 22:26 |
| * wiretapped would love it if the whole council resigned | 22:26 | |
| GeneralAntilles | fnordianslip, MeeGo is open for community development. | 22:26 |
| woglinde | wolf because the apps will not run because of different symbols? | 22:26 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, I don't use libqt-svg, so why should I keep it on disk? | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | fnordianslip, it's a clean slate. | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | fnordianslip, well, except for the name and RPM, I guess. | 22:27 |
| * SpeedEvil blames the soulless minions of orthodoxy. | 22:27 | |
| wolf^ | woglinde, if some app needs it, it will install it | 22:27 |
| RevdKathy | I don't think anyone was excluded - harder to lost who was included! | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which are the two worst things about it. <_< | 22:27 |
| fnordianslip | GeneralAntilles: and what about maemo | 22:27 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, but none does | 22:27 |
| woglinde | wolf so you are talking about deps | 22:27 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, in a nutshell | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | fnordianslip, it's something I have a lot of emotional attachment with and I'm really sad to see it replaced by something Fisher Price came up with. | 22:27 |
| woglinde | rpm-based distro have dep-hell as well | 22:27 |
| RST38h | General: At least it is not IISFMD | 22:27 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, I need a small subset of all qt libraries, right? | 22:28 |
| RST38h | or some similar abbreviation | 22:28 |
| woglinde | wolf sure | 22:28 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, how do I upgrade just that small subset? | 22:28 |
| * Trizt feels there is a flamewar in the air, just over a package management, why not use ebuilds instead? | 22:28 | |
| RST38h | which it could well become | 22:28 |
| woglinde | apt-get upgrade -u | 22:28 |
| LuciusMare | Hello? | 22:28 |
| woglinde | to see what is getting upgraded | 22:28 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, qt 4.6 is in extras-devel, I don't want to upgrade anything other than qt from there | 22:28 |
| woglinde | *sigh* | 22:28 |
| woglinde | wolf you are confused | 22:29 |
| wolf^ | no, I'm not | 22:29 |
| wolf^ | I know exactly what I want to do | 22:29 |
| wolf^ | dpkg makes it hard to do | 22:29 |
| woglinde | than make your own qt packages | 22:29 |
| woglinde | that isnt hard | 22:29 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, why? | 22:29 |
| javispedro | apt-get install package will install the latest | 22:29 |
| wolf^ | they are in repo already? | 22:29 |
| RevdKathy | You've been with maemo from the beginning, GeneralAntilles - I would imagine you feel like youve been mugged | 22:29 |
| wolf^ | I want just them, nothing else | 22:29 |
| woglinde | *sigh* | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Something like that. | 22:29 |
| woglinde | mental ignore | 22:29 |
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| trbs2 | GeneralAntilles, my condolences | 22:30 |
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| wolf^ | woglinde, yeah, keep living in your special world | 22:30 |
| Scelt | woglinde: even I am on your side, I have to say that your argument is leaking. wolf has a point there | 22:30 |
| * RST38h weeps silently in the perpetual mourning for the fate of Maemo | 22:30 | |
| woglinde | scelt if he needs something special he have to do this on its own | 22:30 |
| javispedro | R. I. P. | 22:30 |
| fnordianslip | GeneralAntilles: Don't get me wrong, I don't think the transition is a bad idea, I just think that that the community should have been better prepared. It's not the council's fault, but I still think that they should resign, in protest against being excluded from Nokias plans. | 22:31 |
| RST38h | Terrible, terrible, a perpetual RIP no less | 22:31 |
| LuciusMare | so it does not happen to any of you? | 22:31 |
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| woglinde | and I bet on fedora and opensuse you have the same deps on qt stuff | 22:31 |
| SpeedEvil | fnordianslip: And what does resigning do? | 22:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | fnordianslip, seems pointless. There's no way Nokia or Intel would've included them with that many lawyers involved. | 22:31 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, I don't need anything special. I don't need full upgrade. I just need to upgrade two or three libqt packages that I use and have installed. I don't need to install rest of qt libraries, or any other upgrades | 22:31 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, it's not about dependencies | 22:31 |
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| javispedro | wolf did you try apt-get install package? | 22:32 |
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| javispedro | it pulls the latest here. | 22:32 |
| javispedro | yes, even if it's already installed. | 22:32 |
| wolf^ | javispedro, yes, with mixed results | 22:32 |
| Scelt | woglinde: I think the point is that if I can't update the packages without the possibility of installing new ones. "apt-get install pkg pkg2" will update them if installed but install if not found. "apt-get update pkg pkg2" could only update them when installed but not install in any case | 22:32 |
| RevdKathy | Will there even be a council in the Brave New World? Moblin doesn't have one. Will Meego need one? | 22:32 |
| javispedro | wolf^: since I believe you're talking about the bugreport 9067 "feature", he means the rpm -Uvh feature, where it will upgrade from a set of on-disk .rpm files. | 22:32 |
| wolf^ | javispedro, installing libqt-*-core seems to pull the rest of libqt | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, that's up to us to decide, I guess. | 22:32 |
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| javispedro | wolf^: that feature is not in debian's dpkg indeed (rpm -Uvh) | 22:33 |
| fnordianslip | GeneralAntilles: perhaps, you are right. It just feels wrong for something like this to happen out of the blue. | 22:33 |
| keesj | it's time for open-source to start hacking open hardware i guess | 22:33 |
| RevdKathy | not entirely - who are the moblin people we should be talking to? They dont seem to exist | 22:33 |
| wolf^ | javispedro, -Uhv installs/upgrades from disk, -Fhv upgrades only that what is already installed | 22:33 |
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| RevdKathy | they are NOT a user or enthusiast community | 22:33 |
| RST38h | keesj: happened before, did not work | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | fnordianslip, I agree entirely, but such are the realities when you're dealing with big companies making agreements like this. | 22:33 |
| fnordianslip | At least we might get a better email client :) | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, they aren't. | 22:33 |
| wolf^ | javispedro, yes | 22:33 |
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| RevdKathy | and why have a council if there's no purpose? | 22:33 |
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| * LuciusMare wonders if anyone in this channel listens to him | 22:33 | |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, Moblin and MeeGo are VERY technical. | 22:34 |
| RST38h | RevdKathy: "The Moblin people" work one floor above me. | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, Moblin is about at the 770 stage. | 22:34 |
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| * RST38h cackles | 22:34 | |
| Scelt | wolf^: can aptitude solve that problem? only update installed packages? | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, MeeGo is basically composed of a bunch of Intel and Nokia employees | 22:34 |
| fnordianslip | I tried Moblin on my eee. Swifty replaced with #! | 22:34 |
| RevdKathy | so there will be no place for bears in Meego - it will swing back to dev and professionals | 22:34 |
| RST38h | General: Well, I would beg to differ... | 22:34 |
| wolf^ | Scelt, I don't know. maybe | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, and a bunch of very confused Maemo people. | 22:34 |
| woglinde | *sigh* | 22:34 |
| trbs2 | hi LuciusMare :) | 22:34 |
| pinchartl | RST38h: how big is the Moblin development team at Intel ? | 22:34 |
| woglinde | it is dependency stuff | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | RevdKathy, well, I think it's up to us to make that place. | 22:34 |
| RST38h | pinchartl: there are multiple teams in different divisions | 22:35 |
| RevdKathy | Guess I was just lucky to enjoy maemo at its height before it vanished | 22:35 |
| pinchartl | RST38h: and how many developers would that be if you put them all together ? | 22:35 |
| woglinde | wolf when the new version qtlibs as other deps so guess what is installed with an upgrade | 22:35 |
| Scelt | woglinde: no it's not :) it's just about the thing that install-command will install the packages stated so it can't be used for updating without the risk of installing new packages. | 22:35 |
| jorma | it think this is a setback. it's going to take MeeGo 6 months to come up with the same stuff that already exists on maemo5. from the consumer perspective nothing has changed | 22:35 |
| woglinde | scelt *sigh* | 22:35 |
| RST38h | pinchartl: probably form a few dozen to a couple of hundred | 22:35 |
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| woglinde | if one qtversion you have installed has deps on lib1 and lib2 | 22:36 |
| RST38h | pinchartl: sorry for not having the exact numbers, but even if I did, I would not be able to tell | 22:36 |
| woglinde | and now the same lib has deps lib1 lib2 lib3 | 22:36 |
| pinchartl | RST38h: damn :-) | 22:36 |
| woglinde | lib3 will be installed | 22:36 |
| woglinde | is that to hard to understand? | 22:36 |
| Scelt | woglinde: forgot the qt libs. it has nothing to do with them | 22:36 |
| woglinde | would be the same on rpm | 22:36 |
| woglinde | *sigh* | 22:36 |
| wiretapped | wolf^: again i say you're doing it wrong if you regularly need to do that. but if you do, it is trivial to apt-get ugprade -u and see what of everything would be upgraded and then apt-get install the subset of packages you want to upgrade | 22:36 |
| Scelt | you're not really getting it, pal | 22:36 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, that's how it should be working (and is) | 22:37 |
| woglinde | no you are dont get it | 22:37 |
| woglinde | wiretapped excatly | 22:37 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, the problem is about something else, but let's leave it, shall we? | 22:37 |
| woglinde | and when the new versions has other deps | 22:37 |
| woglinde | the other deps will be installed | 22:37 |
| * alterego tries to familiarise himself with Qt. | 22:37 | |
| Scelt | :-D | 22:38 |
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| woglinde | alterego it's really fun to programm it | 22:38 |
| Scelt | forgot the qt, forgot the debs | 22:38 |
| Scelt | deps | 22:38 |
| woglinde | alterego especially with creator | 22:38 |
| woglinde | scelt okay explain me the problem | 22:38 |
| woglinde | maybee I am really to old | 22:38 |
| woglinde | to understand it | 22:38 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, what I really want is a combination of upgrade that accepts install parameters | 22:39 |
| Scelt | woglinde: I wanna update packages one, two and three but only update them and not install if they don't exist. "apt-get install one two three" will install missing packages and update existing ones | 22:39 |
| woglinde | scelt right | 22:39 |
| LuciusMare | http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/02/nokia_and_intel_announce_meego.html | 22:39 |
| LuciusMare | Huh? | 22:39 |
| RST38h | LuciusMare: A slow learner, ain't you? :) | 22:40 |
| Scelt | woglinde: but I only want to update the existing packages so what I should replace the install-command with? | 22:40 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, so i can do "apt-get upgrade libqt-*" and don't worry that something other that I have installed (and what is not in dependencies) will be installed | 22:40 |
| woglinde | scelt apt-get upgrade -u will show whats going to upgrade | 22:40 |
| woglinde | wolf apt-get install libqt-* | 22:40 |
| woglinde | hm ah | 22:40 |
| woglinde | okay | 22:40 |
| Scelt | you got it now? :) | 22:40 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, it will install all libqt-* libraries, I want apt-get to filter it to the subset I have already installed | 22:40 |
| woglinde | apt-get upgrade -u | 22:40 |
| wolf^ | (minus the deps of course) | 22:41 |
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| Scelt | woglinde: will "apt-get upgrade -u one two three" update only packages found and install nothing new? | 22:41 |
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| woglinde | scelt upgrade -u is showing you what will be updated | 22:41 |
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| woglinde | you than can cut and paste it | 22:41 |
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| Scelt | woglinde: so no way just to update what I want without copypasting | 22:42 |
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| wiretapped | Scelt: is this a feature you've needed more than once or twice? | 22:42 |
| Trizt | Scelt; write a small script that does it for you | 22:42 |
| wiretapped | Why don't you want to upgrade the rest of your packages? | 22:42 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, I need it every time I want to upgrade qt 4.6 from extras-devel | 22:42 |
| Scelt | wiretapped and Trizt: I am not needing it. wolf asked for it and the thing here is that we've been talknig about different things | 22:42 |
| woglinde | wolf why? | 22:43 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, because upgrading to extras-devel is bad ;p | 22:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests $( ) | 22:43 | |
| woglinde | wlof learn about pinning | 22:43 |
| woglinde | ups pinning | 22:43 |
| wiretapped | wolf^: you should be able to apt-get install a single thing that depends on all the stuff you want to upgrade | 22:43 |
| Scelt | wiretapped: well, if you want few packages from unstable repo you may not want to update everything and fuck up the whole system | 22:43 |
| woglinde | you can pin that qt only should be updated from extras | 22:43 |
| woglinde | not the other stuff | 22:43 |
| woglinde | mom | 22:43 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, that's how it seems to work, at least recently, I had some problems with it earlier | 22:44 |
| woglinde | http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html | 22:44 |
| woglinde | there it is | 22:44 |
| woglinde | have fun | 22:44 |
| woglinde | didnt see rpm has this feature | 22:44 |
| Trizt | if wanting some things from unstable and keep rest stable, then it would better to use portage, as you can select which packages to be from unstable, but I doubt anyone here would want to use portage. | 22:45 |
| LuciusMare | hi, i have got problems when connecting my n900 to my computer, it always mounts as read only, and cant be mounted any other way | 22:45 |
| woglinde | hm okay | 22:45 |
| woglinde | that was only for repos | 22:45 |
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| woglinde | but there is pinning for packages too | 22:45 |
| wiretapped | wolf^: you can also use pinning to make a repo not upgrade everything | 22:45 |
| wolf^ | woglinde, it's apt-get feature, rpm would be a equivalent of dpkg | 22:45 |
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| wiretapped | wolf^: the way they do at http://www.backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=instructions | 22:46 |
| wiretapped | maemo should edit the Release file for extras-devel to make it do that by default | 22:46 |
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| wiretapped | but you can do it yourself in your apt preferences | 22:46 |
| Trizt | LuciusMare; your file system read/write? I had some troubles yesterday when it went just read, mouting at that stage had mede it also read only on my desktop | 22:46 |
| slonopotamus | Trizt, some do want :) | 22:46 |
| Trizt | slonopotamus; :) | 22:47 |
| LuciusMare | Trizt: not sure how you do mean it, i think it is mounted as a readwrite in the tablet | 22:47 |
| LuciusMare | lemme try | 22:47 |
| Trizt | LuciusMare; on your N900, can you write to the vfat file system? | 22:47 |
| Trizt | open terminal and do a "touch ~/MyDocs/test" | 22:48 |
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| woglinde | hm hm | 22:48 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, there's a saying, that the socialism is a political system bravely fighting with problems nonexistant in other political systems | 22:48 |
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| LuciusMare | yes | 22:48 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, seems strangely applicable to this pinning | 22:48 |
| woglinde | hm no | 22:48 |
| woglinde | pinnig dont help here | 22:49 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, really, I do know what I want to do, I'm comfortable with temporarily enabling extras-devel and getting one or two packages that I want | 22:49 |
| RST38h | ah, tmo, where poor disoriented maemo users are comforting each other with the list of things they will bring to moblin... | 22:49 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, any other work is just too much for me | 22:49 |
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| Trizt | LuciusMare; then I'm not sure, is it your desktop environment which mounts it with help of dbus or kernel automount or you do it manually? | 22:50 |
| tgalal | How do I retrieve contact info from osso abook? I want to find contact using his number then get his/her name for example | 22:50 |
| LuciusMare | mount manually | 22:50 |
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| pupnik_ | reason number 42 to install ssh on tablet: using mplayer foo.mp3 to locate the device | 22:51 |
| LuciusMare | pupnik_: my soulmate! | 22:51 |
| Trizt | LuciusMare; anything in your dmesg that tells you something? | 22:51 |
| pupnik_ | ehheh | 22:51 |
| wiretapped | wolf^: so, it sounds to me like apt actually has a better way to do exactly what you want... which would let you just "apt-get upgrade" | 22:52 |
| LuciusMare | Trizt: nope, standard "device connected" messages | 22:52 |
| Trizt | okey | 22:52 |
| wiretapped | but you can't be bothered to put four lines in a text file | 22:52 |
| wiretapped | correct? | 22:52 |
| * slonopotamus failed to understand pinning. it's just overcomplicated | 22:52 | |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, no, not really, let's say I feel adventureous and I wan't to upgrade something from extras-devel | 22:53 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, then I need to remove these four lines, then put them again... | 22:53 |
| wolf^ | so much unneeded work | 22:53 |
| wiretapped | no, you just add the thing you want to upgrade to the list of packages you want | 22:53 |
| wiretapped | wolf^: in rpm land, where you can upgrade a wildcarded set of packages... | 22:54 |
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| ShadowJK | anyone else reminded of the OS/2 collaboration? :-D | 22:54 |
| wiretapped | how do you upgrade everything? | 22:54 |
| wiretapped | disable the unwanted repo? | 22:54 |
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| wiretapped | seems like more work | 22:54 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, in poldek (apt-get equivalent) | 22:54 |
| etamme | is /etc/fstab wiped out on device reboot? | 22:54 |
| woglinde | etamme yes | 22:54 |
| wiretapped | the apt way, you can keep your pacakges up to date from mutliple repos | 22:54 |
| etamme | hrm | 22:54 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, upgrade libqt-*; upgrade */--dist-upgrade | 22:54 |
| etamme | any way to get permanant changes to it ? | 22:54 |
| Trizt | LuciusMare; no odd udev rules that you have added? Thats the last thing I can think of | 22:54 |
| LuciusMare | AFAIK,nope | 22:55 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, and there are some configuration files with repo configuration | 22:55 |
| wiretapped | what does "*/--dist-upgrade" mean? | 22:55 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, nothing, that's two ways to do something; you can either enable interactive mode and enter "upgrade *" or use the "--dist-upgrade" parameter | 22:56 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, there's no easy way to say "I want that package from that repo, but only that package" in poldek, but then again, what's the use for it? ;> | 22:57 |
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| wiretapped | wolf^: i thought that was the exact functionality that were were complaining apt didn't have, but which it actually does | 22:58 |
| LuciusMare | nobody, really? | 22:58 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, as I said, I'm comfortable with temporarily enablind some repository and manually specifying what I want to upgrade | 22:59 |
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| KamuiN900 | dude | 23:00 |
| KamuiN900 | http://wireless.ign.com/articles/106/1069286p1.html | 23:00 |
| wiretapped | just not in a text file, where you could get upgrades without having to specify it again later | 23:00 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, no, I don't think so (I'm not sure) | 23:00 |
| wolf^ | in that way truly apt is better | 23:00 |
| KamuiN900 | i know most dont care but man im jealous. i dont want to pick up my iphone again for anything other than to set my alarm clock alarm | 23:01 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, what about the rest of that bug? | 23:01 |
| wiretapped | my head exploded when i read apt didn't do upgrades :) | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | wohoo, I registered on meego before someone else took 'jk | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | ' | 23:01 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, please read the rest, I'm eager to be proved wrong | 23:02 |
| wiretapped | wolf^: #2 and #3 are irritating, but things that people who muck with nonstandard packages rapidly figure out how to deal with... | 23:02 |
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| wiretapped | I've had to manually edit failing control scripts more than once | 23:03 |
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| wolf^ | wiretapped, um, these are stored somewhere on filesystem? | 23:03 |
| etamme | finally a bit of reassurance from nokia ... http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/02/this-is-next-step-step-forward.html | 23:03 |
| wiretapped | /var/lib/dpkg/info | 23:03 |
| wolf^ | wiretapped, rpm holds them in berkeley db, so they're not user-editable | 23:03 |
| wiretapped | wolf^: yeah that is one of the things I really like about apt over rpm - text files for everything | 23:03 |
| boseefus | hello all. quick question - is it possible to change the default shell of user on my n999? bash is installed and passwd defines it as bash, but it will not source my bashrc when starting xterm. | 23:04 |
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| ensi | i wrote an application that allows user to use shift+arrow keys to swap between application windows (like alt+tab works in windows) | 23:05 |
| ensi | anyone interested? | 23:05 |
| boseefus | n999 = n900 | 23:05 |
| wiretapped | boseefus: you have an n999?!?! | 23:05 |
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| lardman | re | 23:05 |
| boseefus | damnit. still getting used to this tiny keyboard. | 23:05 |
| wiretapped | boseefus: I actually just edited my passwd file the other day, and my xterm has bash now | 23:05 |
| wiretapped | don't know why it wouldn't work... | 23:05 |
| boseefus | well. | 23:05 |
| boseefus | does it source your bashrc? | 23:06 |
| boseefus | I have to do that manually. | 23:06 |
| wiretapped | I haven't put a bashrc on it yet | 23:06 |
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| boseefus | hrmm. | 23:07 |
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| boseefus | wiretapped: any way I can tell a difference between that and ash? | 23:07 |
| lardman | hmm, quite depressing seeing the level of maths ability of primary school teachers | 23:08 |
| trbs2 | boseefus, you can use the 'chsh' command to change your default shell i believe | 23:08 |
| boseefus | $SHELL returns bash | 23:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, hey, as long as it's higher than the kids. :P | 23:08 |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: marginal it seems | 23:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 23:09 |
| pupnik_ | ok i got an icon to start xterm in a new window by copying the irssi.desktop to pupterm.desktop and changing the name and removing 'irssi' from the invocation | 23:09 |
| boseefus | I used chsh as well. still doesn't aource my .bashrc. -.- | 23:10 |
| wiretapped | boseefus: my bash says bash in the prompt | 23:10 |
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| boseefus | source* | 23:10 |
| wiretapped | boseefus: did you try a .profile instead? | 23:10 |
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| * wiretapped once learned how to make bash do the right thing here, but then forogt | 23:11 | |
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| red_alert | hi folks, are there any bugs known that cause the app. manager to failt its operation and the media player to no longer open up the internet radio thingy? :/ | 23:11 |
| boseefus | wiretapped: no, I haven't. is that part of xterm? | 23:11 |
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| wiretapped | boseefus: no, it is one of the things bash looks for | 23:12 |
| wiretapped | man bash | 23:12 |
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| wiretapped | check the INVOCATION section of the manpage | 23:12 |
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| boseefus | yikes, never heard of that. I have run bash from the prompt and it would source my .bashrc just fine from there. maybe even .bash_profile, but I know it does for bashrc | 23:13 |
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| wiretapped | boseefus: yeah .profile should work... bash only runs the bashrc if it is an "interactive shell that is not a login shell" | 23:13 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: for next glass of wine: penguinbait is starting the "fork the forum" discussion again | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:14 |
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| boseefus | wiretapped: let me try that. | 23:15 |
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| ShadowJK | I wonder if meego will have one repository per device, with things like optification in one but not the other, etc :P | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: OBS based | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | or if add on apps will be in /usr/local/ all the time or, you know, something sensible? | 23:17 |
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| ShadowJK | Well what does that mean? | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | means we can pretty much do wtf we want | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | Does that imply some sort of fragmentation-hell... | 23:17 |
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| ptl | damn | 23:21 |
| ptl | just read about meego | 23:21 |
| ptl | yet another change on maemo? | 23:21 |
| ptl | we need stability, not this kind of turbulence. | 23:21 |
| ptl | now I need to use qt creator for my programs? lame. | 23:21 |
| etamme | ptl, i think nokia could have done a much better job with the announcement. it was very disruptive and they gave little info. | 23:22 |
| etamme | ptl, but i have no problem with moving to qt | 23:22 |
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| etamme | or anything like that | 23:22 |
| Ceron^ | this is the captain speaking: we are having some turbulence, please change to windows mobile | 23:22 |
| etamme | hehe | 23:22 |
| etamme | more like jump ship to android | 23:22 |
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| Ceron^ | samsung Badaaaa | 23:23 |
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| ptl | is there a vector-based drawing program for n900? | 23:24 |
| lardman | Ceron^: Windows 7 mobile you mean? ;) | 23:25 |
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| Ceron^ | sure why not | 23:26 |
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| ptl | :S | 23:28 |
| spectre- | fuck meego - they're ditching debian | 23:28 |
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| spectre- | ;/ | 23:28 |
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| ptl | are they? | 23:29 |
| woglinde | hi lardman | 23:30 |
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| spectre- | yes | 23:30 |
| spectre- | meego is going rpm | 23:30 |
| woglinde | sad day | 23:30 |
| spectre- | such bullshit | 23:30 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Indeed, I'm trying to ignore that. Good luck to 'im | 23:30 |
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| lardman | hi woglinde | 23:32 |
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| pupnik_ | can you explain what is so bad about rpm ? | 23:37 |
| pupnik_ | @ spectre- | 23:37 |
| spectre- | it's not about rpm vs deb | 23:37 |
| SplasPood | if nothing else I'd guess it's a complete reversal of a lot of work done with debs | 23:37 |
| wiretapped | so, without hildon or debian, what is maemo bringing to meego? The maemo6 qt stuff and, "community"? | 23:37 |
| wiretapped | any other software? | 23:38 |
| spectre- | so much as it is about maemo ditching it's debian heritage | 23:38 |
| spectre- | and also | 23:38 |
| spectre- | apt is an amazing tool | 23:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, lots of the technologies, I guess. | 23:38 |
| cehteh | RST38h: there? | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, BlueZ, Telepathy, etc. | 23:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, Nokia has a rather significant investment in all of them. | 23:38 |
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| pupnik_ | feels like intel just needed to pee in the soup a bit. different name, different upstream | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | The browser seems likely. | 23:39 |
| spectre- | so lame | 23:39 |
| cehteh | intel wants atom powered phones :P | 23:39 |
| spectre- | maemo was my dream os | 23:39 |
| spectre- | meego is tainted | 23:39 |
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| pupnik_ | maybe intel's marketing is the deciding factor. what speaks *for* meego? | 23:39 |
| luke-jr | what a boring dream! | 23:40 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 23:40 |
| KamuiN900 | yea. atom phones would need too much juice | 23:40 |
| cehteh | jk | 23:40 |
| spectre- | is maemo open enough that we could just fork it away from nokia? | 23:41 |
| cehteh | well, has the mameo/community-council any voice about rpm vs apt decision? if they really cry out loud? | 23:41 |
| woglinde | cehteh no | 23:42 |
| cehteh | i mean this merger isnt entirely bad, but there should be some effort to get the best out of it for everyone | 23:42 |
| KamuiN900 | fooook! | 23:42 |
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| jacekowski | how to determine endianess of linux ARM binary? | 23:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's an awful lot of Intel on the infra and technical side and VERY little Maemo. | 23:42 |
| KamuiN900 | raped by nokia yet again | 23:42 |
| woglinde | jacekowski objdump | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | i don't have objdump on N900 | 23:43 |
| KamuiN900 | i will never buy another nokia device | 23:43 |
| KamuiN900 | this was the final rape | 23:43 |
| jacekowski | KamuiN900: go away then | 23:43 |
| jacekowski | KamuiN900: and be raped by apple | 23:43 |
| cehteh | hehe .. prolly because i buyed it | 23:43 |
| woglinde | jacekowski install it | 23:43 |
| cehteh | when i buyed a apple newton, apple canceled it | 23:43 |
| jacekowski | bought* | 23:44 |
| jacekowski | woglinde: E: Couldn't find package objdump | 23:44 |
| cehteh | just tell me what i shall buy next... windows7? ... | 23:44 |
| pronto | cehteh: be sure to give us all lists on what you buy >.> | 23:44 |
| cehteh | :) | 23:44 |
| KamuiN900 | jacekowski: ill speak my mind where and when i want. keep your winey censorship to yourself | 23:44 |
| pronto | cehteh: buy an ipad :p | 23:44 |
| ScribbleJ | So wait, since this IBM thing, maemo is going rpm? | 23:44 |
| ScribbleJ | Is that true?? That makes me a sad panda. | 23:44 |
| jacekowski | KamuiN900: so far you are just moaning about beeing raped | 23:44 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, tried using file? | 23:44 |
| jacekowski | KamuiN900: without any facts | 23:44 |
| KamuiN900 | i cant be mad that i liked maemo and am pissed at the new direction | 23:44 |
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| jacekowski | ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (ARM), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped | 23:45 |
| jacekowski | nah, it doesn't say what endianess is it | 23:45 |
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| cehteh | KamuiN900: moblin and maemo already have a lot in common .. rpm might be a bit pita, but maybe the community hacks apt in.. | 23:45 |
| ScribbleJ | LSB doesn't mean least-significiant-bit first? | 23:45 |
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| spectre- | yes meego will be rpm | 23:45 |
| spectre- | such a stupid move | 23:46 |
| cehteh | hey .. lets go nix :P | 23:46 |
| jacekowski | maemo is little endian? | 23:46 |
| cehteh | http://nixos.org/nixos/ | 23:46 |
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| RST38h | Ohhhoho | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, I think this explains the shift in the Maemo 6 support on N900 over the past two months. | 23:47 |
| ShadowJK | shift? | 23:47 |
| RST38h | GeneralAntilles: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44611 | 23:47 |
| spectre- | seriously what the hell is wrong with nokia | 23:47 |
| spectre- | i can't believe they'd ditch apt | 23:47 |
| ScribbleJ | Me neither. | 23:47 |
| ScribbleJ | That's the most nonsensical thing I've heard /all day/. | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, at BCN it was pretty much "No multitouch, no support", but things kind of went the other way after that. | 23:48 |
| spectre- | i sell this phone to fellow techies by saying 'it uses apt' | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, I think MeeGo explains that well. | 23:48 |
| pupnik_ | ty cehteh - interesting stuff | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, since you can rely on multi. | 23:48 |
| range | spectre-: Why should they ditch apt? | 23:48 |
| cehteh | if i move away from debian then to nix .. thats awesome | 23:48 |
| spectre- | range | 23:48 |
| cehteh | but i suspect it wont work well with small devices | 23:48 |
| spectre- | no idea | 23:48 |
| spectre- | but they are | 23:48 |
| spectre- | going to go rpm | 23:49 |
| range | spectre-: Who said that? | 23:49 |
| ScribbleJ | Does someone have a link confirming this apt thing? | 23:49 |
| spectre- | topic in #meego and comments on slashdot | 23:49 |
| spectre- | lemme dig | 23:49 |
| wolf^ | faq@meego | 23:49 |
| woglinde | ScribbleJ faq on meego.com side | 23:49 |
| range | spectre-: That's comparing apples and oranges. I can use apt on rpm systems just fine. | 23:49 |
| spectre- | my bigger concern is ditching the debian heritage | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | debian 4? :P | 23:50 |
| spectre- | and system | 23:50 |
| KamuiN900 | i suppose it could be worse. they could release a new maemo device this year, discontinuing support for the n900 | 23:50 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, http://aaronshang.blogspot.com/2009/02/elf-file-data-encoding-not-little.html | 23:50 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, lsb is little endian | 23:50 |
| ScribbleJ | http://meego.com/about/faq | 23:50 |
| spectre- | you can't discontinue an open-source product :p | 23:50 |
| ScribbleJ | There it is, it says RPM, not DEB. And it says it's not going to be based on Fedora or Debian at all, it's from scratch. | 23:51 |
| cehteh | well .. we all here like deb more than rpm .. but hornestly does it make such a big difference, its just the package management ... what matters more is that there is a reasonable (or even better completely) free gnu/linux platform under the hood | 23:51 |
| ScribbleJ | Those seem like ridiculous decisions. | 23:51 |
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| spectre- | WHAT | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | KamuiN900, honestly, MeeGo makes it much more likely that we'll see Maemo5+1 on the N900. | 23:51 |
| spectre- | FROM SCRATCH????? | 23:51 |
| KamuiN900 | sure you can. community sjpported projects only live as long as their interest | 23:51 |
| cehteh | RST38h: got my ping? | 23:51 |
| spectre- | WTF | 23:51 |
| ScribbleJ | "No. Meego is its own independent distribution, run as an open source project." | 23:51 |
| spectre- | sigh | 23:51 |
| wolf^ | cehteh, no, "we" don't | 23:51 |
| ScribbleJ | That all seems like ridiculousness. Who makes these decisions?! | 23:51 |
| KamuiN900 | someone hug me please, i feel so cold suddenly | 23:52 |
| woglinde | ScribbleJ intel | 23:52 |
| range | I don't like deb. I'm all for the move to rpm. | 23:52 |
| cehteh | linux foundation | 23:52 |
| spectre- | a complete rewrite?? | 23:52 |
| KamuiN900 | rpm blows | 23:52 |
| spectre- | seriously?? | 23:52 |
| ScribbleJ | There must be people AT Intel, specific people who I can hate specifically. | 23:52 |
| spectre- | ditching debian to go custom??? | 23:52 |
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| corecode | oh well | 23:52 |
| jacekowski | ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped | 23:52 |
| RevdKathy | damnit all. I'm going to bed. G'night all. | 23:52 |
| jacekowski | ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (ARM), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped | 23:52 |
| spectre- | jesus christ someone's lost their mind at nokia/intel | 23:53 |
| lardman | night RevdKathy | 23:53 |
| trbs2 | spectre-, well it's not really 'custom' as i understand it it's fedora | 23:53 |
| jacekowski | looks like ttn is not going to work after all | 23:53 |
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| trbs2 | more or less similar to how maemo is debian derived, meego will be fedora derived | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | oh | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | that would be bad and ugly | 23:54 |
| spectre- | i don't get WHY | 23:54 |
| spectre- | what the hell is wrong with debian | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder how many SD interfaces omap3 has... | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | fedora is worst distro i've ever seen | 23:54 |
| woglinde | spectre moblin was first ubuntu based | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: 3 | 23:54 |
| trbs2 | hehe me neither (or your talking about the OS) | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: or 4 | 23:54 |
| spectre- | ahh | 23:54 |
| cehteh | will it be really fedora or rather evolve in something on its own .. | 23:54 |
| trbs2 | s/or/if/ | 23:54 |
| infobot | trbs2 meant: hehe me neither (if your talking about the OS) | 23:54 |
| corecode | beh, rpm | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | rpm is bad | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK | jacekowski, hm.. one for wlan leaves 2.. I have a feeling we wont see microsd on next device :) | 23:54 |
| jacekowski | and evel | 23:54 |
| woglinde | than they dichted it | 23:55 |
| woglinde | to use rpm | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: i dont' think that wlan is connected to sd | 23:55 |
| spectre- | night guys | 23:55 |
| spectre- | such crap :/ | 23:55 |
| spectre- | we need a petition | 23:55 |
| pupnik_ | rpm was broken badly up to about 2000. which is about when i gave up on it | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | let me find something | 23:55 |
| corecode | heh yea | 23:55 |
| trbs2 | cehteh, i'm guessing that moblin does the same as other distro's do, where if they go to far from the source they end of hurting themselfs..... because you cannot use upstream versions anymore... | 23:55 |
| pupnik_ | spectre-: how about a coherent post explaining your objections | 23:56 |
| jacekowski | http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf | 23:56 |
| Jaffa | spectre-: a "petition"? | 23:56 |
| jacekowski | that's datasheet for it | 23:56 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: | 23:56 |
| pupnik_ | i'd like to see moves that help ensure that maemo or foss successors are successful. | 23:57 |
| wolf^ | pupnik, but why, isn't "rpm sucks!" enough? :> | 23:57 |
| jacekowski | rpm is old and obsolete | 23:57 |
| ShadowJK | as for foss successors, I think meego will make it easy for the "community" to build their own OSen | 23:57 |
| jacekowski | and PITA to use | 23:57 |
| pupnik_ | how is it for package-building jacekowski | 23:57 |
| wolf^ | jacekowski, dpkg is old and obsolete and PITA to use | 23:57 |
| *** Vanadis has quit IRC | 23:58 | |
| jacekowski | pupnik_: it's much simpler to build .deb | 23:58 |
| wolf^ | rotfl | 23:58 |
| trbs2 | well the entire discussion is a bit of a mute, since the decision is made already | 23:58 |
| pupnik_ | perhaps there are superior solutions (cehteh's nix link) | 23:59 |
| pupnik_ | o | 23:59 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: 3 MMC/SD interfaces | 23:59 |
| trbs2 | I'm hoping (without good reason?) that Nokia will at least opensource all the maemo parts that are now closed (ofcourse the parts that they have ownership too) | 23:59 |
| pupnik_ | otoh it would have been nice to see maemo move more upstream to debian proper | 23:59 |
| trbs2 | so that Mer and others can you them if they want to continue with something similar to the existing platform | 23:59 |
| cehteh | pupnik_: i am following nixos since 1 or 2 years people use it productively, i just didnt managed to do the switch yet | 23:59 |
| trbs2 | s/you/use/ | 23:59 |
| infobot | trbs2 meant: so that Mer and others can use them if they want to continue with something similar to the existing platform | 23:59 |
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