IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-02-14

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ArifI just added the file to the bugreport instead00:00
Ariflets see what happens ;P00:00
IZYheay all00:00
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IZYhelp: looking for channel dedicated to rtcomm00:03
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IZYhelp: looking for channel dedicated to rtcomm00:05
GeneralAntillesIZY, most of the relevant people hang out here.00:06
Arif/join rtcomm00:06
GeneralAntillesIZY, but usually on weekdays and during European working and evening hours.00:06
IZYthx a lot00:06
GeneralAntillesRobot101 is a good target.00:06
IZYno such channel00:07
IZYI got in response00:07
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* Shapeshifter discovered today how to render the n900 unusable real quick: unpack a 7z file.00:28
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pupnik_what prog does 7z00:29
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Shapeshifterpupnik_: don't remember the name. I just did apt-cache search 7z and installed something that did it00:30
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Shapeshifterhad to unpack SNES roms ;)00:30 finaly has a n900 in car cradle00:30
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* GeneralAntilles wishes for some chocolate.00:33
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* Arif has some chocolate00:34
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Arif...why does everyone selling their N900 have to start a topic on the forum00:35
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Arifthere should be a subforum for that00:36
GeneralAntilles /dev/null00:37
mtnbkror at least a merge function for moderators00:37
Arifwe'd get a 400 page thread00:38
Ariflike the N900 mod thread00:38
ShadowJKthere IS a subforum for selling stuff..00:38
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GeneralAntillesIt's attention whoring.00:39
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Arifit's the only newish device that can stream my TV card so I didn't have much choice ;(00:39
simoneb_anyone here is a slashdot reader and knows how to make slashdot's pages more readable?00:40
ShadowJKsimoneb_, i think you need nuclear warheads for that00:40
ShadowJKOr maybe you could just peel safety stickers off of everything and the idiots die out by themselves00:41
simoneb_will they come with PR1.2?00:41
simoneb_ShadowJK: i'm afraid i didn't get the last one00:41
bef0rdsimoneb_, RSS?00:42
ShadowJKThe best way to make slashdot comments readable is to kill the idiots that write them ;-)00:42
simoneb_bef0rd: yes, i use it all the time to read the articles, but the comments page is not very well designed00:42
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SpeedEvilsimoneb_: Start a thread demanding the ponies theme was brought back?00:43
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Proteoussimoneb_: if you have an account you can disable the new D2 comment system and use the old one00:44
Proteousthere is a toggle for "enable dynamic discussions"00:45
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* SpeedEvil fails basic shell. How do I get the first filename matching into a variable. *png - say.00:53
simoneb_SpeedEvil: | head ?00:54
simoneb_SpeedEvil: ls *png | head -n 100:55
SpeedEvilThat seems so broken, that's obbious - but tehre should be an easy way to do this00:55
simoneb_looks working to me00:55
luke-jrSpeedEvil: "first" how?00:56
luke-jrSpeedEvil: if you need a sorted list, you need to sort it00:56
simoneb_well just add | sort ...00:56
luke-jrsimoneb_: if he wants alphabetically... but easier to use --sort=foo00:57
luke-jrfirstpng="$(ls *.png --sort=time | head -n 1)"00:57
simoneb_uh, i just memorized sort -k <column>00:57
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simoneb_anyway --sort would do better00:57
SpeedEvilI don't care.00:57
SpeedEvilI just want any one file in the list that * generates.00:57
LuciusMareno enca or cstocs for maemo?00:57
SpeedEvilI don't care about the order.00:57
DocScrutinizer51for f in *.png; do foo.... ?00:58
simoneb_SpeedEvil: doesn't head do what you need?00:58
DocScrutinizer51echo *png | read00:59
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MikeJBCan the N900 be used without the SIM/phone part of it?00:59
lcukbut not for normal calls01:00
SpeedEvilyes - however I assumed shell must have some way to break it apart.01:00
SpeedEvilMikeJB: yes.01:00
MikeJBand the phone interface can be used to skype over wifi?01:00
pupnik_the skype client doesnt support file transfer01:01
lcukand you can happily watch movies and play games and use console and have your computer in your pocket wherever you are01:01
MikeJBand how much does it cost to have a skype phone number?01:01
lcukbut the phone interface just helps immensely with talking to normal ppl01:01
Arifit's pretty useless without a SIM if you don't have wifi though01:01
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simoneb_MikeJB: you can check it on skype's website, however, should cost as a outgoing skype call, iirc01:01
threshyou can still launch angry birds!01:02
Arifno you can't! it's not installed !01:02
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: you'll probably find some fancy shellvar substitution like ${fn:(*png# )}01:02
ArifI'm starting to get annoyed that the N900 doesn't auto disconnect from the internet...01:02
lcukMikeJB, just get a cheap sim card which offers you a dataplan and SMS stuff and it really expands the scope easily01:02
GeneralAntillesArif, turn it on?01:03
GeneralAntillesIt's in settings01:03
lcukinstall it!01:03
GeneralAntillesEither way, it's supposed to be an always-on device.01:03
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: ueah - I'll just use awk. :)01:03
Arifit connects on demand, but when I'm done using it it stays connected to whatever :)01:03
ArifI don't get through a full day apparently when it is ;o01:04
GeneralAntillesTurn on the idle timeout in settings.01:04
simoneb_Arif: put automatic wifi disconnection in crontab01:05
simoneb_GeneralAntilles: i don't seem to have any "idle timeout"... where do you see it?01:05
Arifyeah I can't find it either01:05
ArifI have it set to always ask01:05
MikeJBlcuk: In the US, "sim cards" and "cheap" are antonyms01:05
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: your examples would fail on a filename containing spaces01:05
Arifand that's the only option :P01:05
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GeneralAntillesHrm, did they take it out of Maemo 5?01:06
Arifthere's an uato connect and a search interval option01:06
GeneralAntillesGuess so.01:06
lcukMikeJB, whatever, its just amazing to have it there as a backup01:06
GeneralAntillesNevermind, then.01:06
lcukskype wont work if you arent on wifi01:06
GeneralAntillesmwkn needs more sub-editors01:07
GeneralAntillesTime for one of you useless dolts to volunteer.01:07
DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: yep. but then again they'll fail in general as it was mostly noise to show a direction01:07
simoneb_when i start a dbus connection with osso_get_dbus_connection() .... do i need to stop/dealloc it? (how?)01:07
pupnik_maemo needs more news01:07
lcukGeneralAntilles, thats a really good way to enlist help01:07
Arifmaemo needs more Nokia love01:08
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pupnik_get revdkathy on it01:08
lcukArif, like what01:08
Arifpaid ovi store01:08
ArifI want that angry birds pack :D01:08
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ArifI don't care about the rest01:08
Arifthey already fix bugs anyway01:09
lcuk:) but angry birds would not exist without the rest01:09
ArifI mean the rest of the things people keep complaining about01:10
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lcukmaemo works because of the work each and every person has put in over the years01:10
lcukwell tyr to find ways to stop them complaining :p01:10
Arifgive them a crapple01:10
* SpeedEvil wants more levels for angrybirds.01:11
pupnik_i am a little miffed engadget review called it half baked.  are other phones really better?01:11
lcukdoesnt work, we tried that, GeneralAntilles hasnt stopped smiling since lol01:11
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lcukSpeedEvil, we all do01:11
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lcuki get asked daily by tracy01:11
lcukshe flutters eyelashes at me and asks ever so nicely01:12
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GeneralAntillespupnik, not really.01:12
GeneralAntillespupnik, but they do tend to offer more . . . complete experiences.01:12
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pupnik_what have you tried GeneralAntilles ?01:12
Arifwhatever you call complete01:12
SpeedEvillcuk: ***'d everything. Some are deeply annoying..01:12
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lcukSpeedEvil, nicely done01:13
lcuki thought you were swearing at me for a moment till i realised01:13
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GeneralAntillespupnik, lots in passing, little else intensely.01:13
GeneralAntillesNokia has a tendency to sort of toss features out there whether or not they're actually working01:13
GeneralAntillesWhich is great fun for us, but tends to irritate normal users.01:14
ArifI found out today that the FM transmitter sends the artist/album/title01:15
lcukGeneralAntilles, examples01:15
GeneralAntilleslcuk, GSM.01:15
GeneralAntillesPhone functionality.01:16
GeneralAntillesLack of USSD, per-user ringtones, that sort of stuff.01:16
GeneralAntillespupnik, I don't think the term is entirely inaccurate01:16
ArifI'd be very annoyed by the lack of USSD if I was in Turkey...01:17
lcukper user ringtones would indeed be cool01:17
GeneralAntillespupnik, but it's disingenuous to the real intent.01:17
GeneralAntilles"In progress" is much more reasonable than "half baked"01:17
lcukthey would have to be stored on the contact card i assume01:17
GeneralAntillesSince the point is to involve the community in development.01:17
woglindearif should be fixed with next release01:17
GeneralAntillesWhy would you apply the term "half baked" to somebody following release early, release often.01:17
ArifI can wait :)01:17
lcukhey woglinde01:17
Arifand there's the USSD applet anyway01:18
Arifthat's why I love this device :P01:18
lcukarif  how long have you had device01:18
Arifsince this Tuesday01:18
GeneralAntillesArif, that's the point.01:18
Arifif I didn't have such a dislike for programming I'd probably be writing stuff too01:19
GeneralAntillesThe community can contribute to the platform.01:19
GeneralAntillesWe're not at the mercy of the vendor.01:19
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luke-jrGeneralAntilles: we are, to a degree01:20
Arifnot as bad as iphone users though01:20
luke-jrN900 significantly less though01:20
Arifwhich the n900 is compared to a lot01:20
DocScrutinizer51lcuk: see backscroll! search for X-RINGTONE01:20
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lcukDocScrutinizer, boil it into a wiki page, give as much info from the discussion as possible01:21
lcukand talk more about it01:21
sandsmarkthis key thingy doesn't work:
sandsmark(I've been trying all day :-)01:21
lcuksandman, try left clicking01:21
sandmantry again lcuk ;)01:22
lcukserver down o_O01:22
sandmanlook my nic01:22
lcukme kicks xchat01:22
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* lcuk is tired01:23
sandsmarklcuk: :-P01:23
woglindelcuk me too01:23
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sandsmarkbut meh, I need that key :(01:24
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sandsmarksilly nokia01:25
* DocScrutinizer51 just finished breakfast. Optimized as in today's and tomorrow's breakfast at once01:25
lcukDocScrutinizer, nice idea, you could try that with breakfast and dinner in the same bowl :p01:26
* DocScrutinizer51 burrrrp01:27
simoneb_i always have breakfast and lunch all at once01:27
simoneb_that is, when i wake up past 1pm01:28
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DocScrutinizer51that's called brunch01:28
pupnik_im just amazed at n90001:28
DocScrutinizer51I invented brinner01:29
pupnik_do you guys think it should have slid open one more row for a 4 row keyboard?01:29
pupnik_i think the kbd is really good tbh01:29
DocScrutinizer51pupnik: it'd be even better with that 4th row01:31
GeneralAntillespupnik, but then your thumbs are farther from the touchscreen.01:31
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Arifmy finger covers 3 keys at once01:32
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Arifso it's hard to use it....01:32
geneven_Hey, I'm having a small problem with xchat.01:33
SpeedEvilArif: There is a device on the market to help.01:33
simoneb_having a "&" key would be a nice starter01:33
Arifbluetooth keyboard? ;P01:33
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simoneb_really... why doesn't it have a & key?01:33
* GeneralAntilles has one.01:33
SpeedEvilgeneven_: ?01:33
ArifI use the stylus and the on screen keyboard01:33
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Arifit's easier01:33
GeneralAntillesThumbs are faster than stylus on the onscreen.01:34
SpeedEvilTry the corners of your thumbs01:34
Arifnot if you press 3 keys at once01:34
GeneralAntillesArif, then you're doing it wrong.01:34
simoneb_Arif: just a matter of practice, imho01:34
Arifbut I only have it for a few days01:34
geneven_hey speedevil, getting  rid of .mozilla solved my other prob, thanks.01:34
Arifmaybe I'll get used to it01:34
simoneb_i have big hands too01:34
GeneralAntillesIt took me a week or two to adjust01:34
Arifalso I have no way to enter þ, ý, ð, ü, ö, and ç on the physical keyboard :P01:35
geneven_now nickserv is automatically logging me on as geneven and when I go on with xchat it won't let me really on because it thinks I am already there01:35
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: there are things like ' vs , I still miss frequently01:35
simoneb_Arif: wow, i can't see one of that characters :P01:35
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DocScrutinizer51geneven_: that's a rather fuzzy description of your problem, and an inaccurate one as well01:37
geneven_doc, it's not totally inaccurate, it reflects my fuzzy understanding. We live in a fuzzy world, ya know.01:38
DocScrutinizer51geneven_: nickserv *never* authenticates you automatically01:39
geneven_doc, I beg your pardon, a program on my n900 authomatically uses nickserv to authenticate geneven automatically01:39
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geneven_At least, I get a message from nickserve saying I am authenticated, is it lying?01:40
DocScrutinizer51if you reconnect and your former nick is 'occupied' then you need to free it via /msg nickserv ghost "former-nick" "yourpassword"01:40
pupnik_geneven_: your irssi client can be automated to do that01:40
DocScrutinizer51then you can use that nick01:40
geneven_I'm not using an irssi client, pupnick01:41
geneven_thanks, doc01:41
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geneven_I already got a message saying geneven was ghosted, how do I get back on as me?01:42
DocScrutinizer51pupnik: I automated my xchat client to do all that :-P01:42
pupnik_i want a maemo terminal without that scrollbar on the right hand side01:42
DocScrutinizer51change your nick to ghosted one. authenticate with nickserv (if you4e not yet)01:43
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geneven_I am trying slash NICK geneven password and it doesn't seem to be working.01:46
geneven_but geneven_ is greyed out now so that's progress :)01:46
DocScrutinizer51geneven_: /ns id "password"01:47
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DocScrutinizer51assuming your present nick is grouped01:47
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DocScrutinizer51geneven_: /ns id "newNick" "password"01:48
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DocScrutinizer51changing nick via /NICK  doesn't take a password01:49
geneven_ok, now I am identified for geneven01:49
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geneven_but I still see myself as geneven_01:50
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DocScrutinizer51geneven_: /nick geneven01:50
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geneven_doesn't change how I am displayed in xchat01:51
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DigitalPioneerhere it works01:52
ShadowJKThere's already a "geneven"01:52
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ShadowJKwho is also logged in to "geneven"01:52
geneven_but I'm almost 100% sure that's me01:52
Jophish_n900No no no. "Activate FULL version for 1.99$".01:53
geneven_from my N900; I'm on a laptop now01:53
DocScrutinizer51geneven_: you need t GHOST that geneven prior to claiming that name!01:53
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ShadowJKJophish_n900, what's that?01:53
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geneven_I did ghost it and got a message saying it was ghosted, but maybe the n900 put it back!01:54
geneven_I'll try again01:54
geneven_ghost geneven zugzwang01:54
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ShadowJKand change your password...01:54
genevenok, it worked, thanks01:54
DocScrutinizer51geneven_: it's generally a bad idea to use same nick on concurrently active clients. won't work01:55
Garygeneven: best change your password asap btw01:55
genevenI didn't deliberately tell the n900 to do that01:55
SpeedEvilnobody reads this.01:55
genevenindeed, good thing I have trash passwords I use01:56
Ariffirst one to steal the account01:56
johnsu01I don't understand the way this conversations/im widget is supposed to work01:56
Arifit shows new messages?01:56
johnsu01it's not showing the new messages and it appears to want me to click through all 300+ messages that I've already seen in the conversations app01:56
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johnsu01is there another way to mark them "read"?01:56
genevenI think it's the conversations thing is also the thing that logs me in automatically01:57
* SpeedEvil ponders simply command-line widget with tail xchats logs01:57
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genevenbye, thanks again01:58
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ArifI wonder if the password is still the same..01:59
Jophish_n900ShadowJK, the app on http://maemo.org01:59
Jophish_n900apologies if I have sent this more than once, bit of connection troubles.02:00
lopzhey, how write [,] and | in the n900?02:00
Jophish_n900lopz, the blue arrow then press ctrl.02:01
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SpeedEvilblue arrown, tehn control, then release control and release blue02:02
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ShadowJKwhat app?02:02
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GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, they're sticky.02:02
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lopzJophish_n900, ShadowJK thanks ;)02:02
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: not for me02:03
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GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, weird02:03
SpeedEvilhang on - getting n900 from outside02:03
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SpeedEvilforgot about it...02:03
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Jophish_n900ShadowJK, hoopsfrenzy02:03
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: yup - just mashed both buttons at the same time ten times - sym does not popup02:04
Jophish_n900I'm hoping that that doesn't become commonplace, and the majority of apps for maemo can remain free (speech)02:05
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, very odd.02:05
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: Same with sym press - roll onto ctro - release sym - release control02:05
GeneralAntillesHoopsFrenzy is open source, no?02:05
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SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: or with the other way round. Only way it works is press and hold blue - press fn - release fn - release blue02:06
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SpeedEviluk keyb02:07
Arifuse the onscreen keyboard!02:07
GeneralAntillesArif, they broke it in PR1.1.02:07
Arifthey did?02:07
Arifwhat exactly :?02:07
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ArifI didn't have the chance to use 42.1102:08
GeneralAntillesGestures don't work anymore02:08
GeneralAntillesIt has the stupid iPhone keyboard behavior.02:08
* SpeedEvil never knew about gestures.02:09
* SpeedEvil stabs stupid documentation.02:09
* SpeedEvil stabs it again.02:09
SpeedEvilThat's the sort of shit you put in a 'getting started' video02:09
Jophish_n900GeneralAntilles, I stand corrected. I may as well just compile it myself.02:09
* Arif hands SpeedEvil an N900 manual02:09
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DocScrutinizer51gestures??? o.O02:12
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* MohammadAG_ points SpeedEvil to /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/User\ Guides/02:12
GAN900Swipe up/down/left/right after tapping a letter for shift, backspace.02:12
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MohammadAG_GAN900, those were removed afaik02:13
GAN900MohammadAG, yes, in PR1.102:13
DocScrutinizer51for onscreen kbd??02:13
GAN900Which is my complaint.02:13
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer51, yeah02:13
MohammadAG_right was space. left was backspace, up was shift, down was enter02:14
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Arifthat sounds useful02:14
Arifwhy did they screw it up02:14
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MohammadAG_cause they're nokia02:15
GAN900Because stupid Nokia UI people <3 iPhone.02:15
Arifnobody loves the iphone02:15
Arifstop lying ! :(02:15
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MohammadAG_Arif, apparently a lot of people do02:15
MohammadAG_though it's mostly a fad02:15
ArifI'd love it too if it did what I wanted...02:16
DocScrutinizer51~lart iphone loving nokians02:16
* infobot acting on orders from an unspecified client drags iphone loving nokians into court suing for $200 million02:16
timeless_mbphrm, portrait mode is actually vaguely usable w/ google's olympic landing page02:17
MohammadAG_call it fanboyism but i'd never hold an iPhone in public even if it was given to me for free02:17
DocScrutinizer51all doom arises from those idiots02:17
timeless_mbptoo bad my mac isn't usable02:17
ArifFree? gimme!02:18
ArifI'm a bit jealous of all those games they have ;(02:18
DocScrutinizer51'does it blend?'02:18
MohammadAG_convinced someone not to buy an iphone and buy an n900 cause it has flash 9.402:18
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: eero worked hard to get it into the n800 help02:18
timeless_mbptoo bad the n900 dropped help02:18
MohammadAG_he needs flash 9.4 (for obvious reasons :P)02:18
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Arifyoutube? :P02:19
timeless_mbpactually, help was awful, it's good that it's gone02:19
MohammadAG_umm.. yeah yeah Youtube haha02:19
Arifpr0ntube? :P02:19
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ArifI wonder if that really exists...02:19
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timeless_mbpthe maemo5ui team made youtube video tutorials for various things02:20
timeless_mbpsadly most people didn't watch them02:20
timeless_mbpthey're not bad ... probably much better than the user guides02:20
MohammadAG_zootube does, as proven by SpeedEvil :P02:20
SpeedEvilI was meanng the app zoutube02:20
SpeedEvilI misremembered the name02:20
Arifallaboutmaemo has those kinds of videos too...02:20
MohammadAG_(though for real, don't google it)02:20
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: 1.2's soft keyboard will be slightly better02:20
SpeedEvilPlease don't google it.02:20
MohammadAG_I know SpeedEvil :)02:20
timeless_mbpbut yeah, i was upset that gestures broke in 1.102:20
timeless_mbpnot quite sure why they broke them eithe02:21
blizzowWhat filesystem types can I format my microsd card with and have my N900 read it?02:21
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MohammadAG_SpeedEvil, when you said that last time I immediately googled it02:21
SpeedEvilblizzow: ext3, vfat02:21
MohammadAG_only to find... well nvm02:21
Arifext3 is evil loonix stuff02:21
MohammadAG_that showed up an error02:21
blizzowDo I have to do ext3 through my computer, or is there an mkfs binary on my n900?02:21
MohammadAG_lol I know02:21
blizzowI couldn't find one at first glance.02:22
MohammadAG_and vfat is evil ms stuff02:22
Arifthat works!02:22
blizzowfsck vfat.02:22
MohammadAG_Arif, and gets corrupt when pulled out of a PS302:22
Arifreally? :p02:22
* Arif has no PS302:23
timeless_mbpblizzow: why would you want to do such a thing?02:23
* Arif blames Sorny02:23
MohammadAG_Arif corrupted my filesystem on the second day02:23
blizzowtimeless_mbp:  I don't want ms vfat if I can help it.02:23
MohammadAG_LOL blame MS for not allowing companies to use NTFS02:23
timeless_mbpblizzow: why?02:23
SpeedEvilmkfs.ext3 too02:24
SpeedEviland 402:24
sandmanhow big is the chance of having ext4 in Maemo6?02:24
* Arif blames MS for not allowing companies to use NTFS...02:24
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MohammadAG_or ignoring the fact that ext3 exists02:24
DocScrutinizer51there's the whole nnunch of mkfs.*02:24
luke-jrsandman: what does it matter?02:24
* Arif is sleepy :(02:24
sandmanlotta faster02:24
jacekowskii'm playing with video calls over jabber02:24
SpeedEvilext4 is there02:24
* MohammadAG_ blames MS for not updating their systems with ext3 support02:24
jacekowskiand i've got setup like that02:24
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luke-jrblizzow: use ext202:24
SpeedEvilsandman: and faster - well - flash has speed demands of its own on ordering02:24
jacekowskigtalk in gmail -> my jabber server on -> N90002:24
jacekowskiand video from n900 to gmail looks nice02:25
timeless_mbpyou're a religious zealot who insists on speaking an arcane form of ancient serbogreek instead of the lingua franca?02:25
jacekowskibut video from gmail to n900 sucks a lot02:25
luke-jrsandman: can ext4 be made to work sanely on SD?02:25
timeless_mbpthe reason people use fat is that it works *everywhere*02:25
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luke-jrtimeless_mbp: except where microsoft enforces their patent? :p02:25
sandmanluke-jr: I am really a noob on this. But when i swapped to Ext4 on my Ubuntu machine... it rocked!02:25
timeless_mbpwhich means that you can plug your n900 using usb into _anything_ and get to your data02:26
* DocScrutinizer51 thought it works never and nowhere02:26
jacekowskiext4 is like delayed /dev/null02:26
luke-jrsandman: that's on a magnetic hard drive02:26
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timeless_mbpluke-jr: nah, those places just cost more because they have to pay :)02:26
MohammadAG_timeless_mbp, the kitchen sink doesn't recognize it :p02:26
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timeless_mbpyour kitchen sink includes a usb port?02:26
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timeless_mbpgimme. i'll add ancient fat support :)02:26
redeemansandman: and ofcourse with that switch to ext4 you also lost ALL chance of a filesystem with proper integrity02:26
MohammadAG_yeah, I charge my N900 in it02:26
sandmanredeeman: really i have not found anything bad with it.. stable as hell02:27
satmddoes your kitchensink run a propietary os?02:27
redeemansandman: stable... unless you do any of the things that makes it break, which have been plenty in every single kernel release since ext4 was marked stable02:27
jacekowskias i said02:28
jacekowskiext4 is like delayed /dev/null02:28
luke-jrsandman: even ext3 is not sane to use on SD cards02:28
MohammadAG_satmd, no it runs chinook :p02:28
redeemanext3 is not sane to use on anything02:28
sandmanredeman: might be so. As i said i am a really noob about this. I have so far not done anything to make it crash02:28
luke-jrredeeman: ext3 works fine on my desktop02:28
DocScrutinizer51~nuke usb mass storage02:29
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at usb mass storage ... B☢☢M!02:29
andresredeeman: whats fine then?02:29
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luke-jrredeeman: for half a decade now, at least02:29
redeemanwell xfs is just tolerable02:29
sandmanwell.. lets hope for btrfs ;)02:29
luke-jror nilfs202:29
redeemanluke-jr: our concepts of "fine" are not the same02:29
luke-jrredeeman: no data loss02:29
SpeedEvilWhat's really needed is sdfs02:30
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SpeedEvilBut the problem with that is that the SD algorithms all vary02:30
luke-jrSpeedEvil: what's really needed is a SD API to disable the block emulation :D02:30
SpeedEvilyeah - that too02:30
luke-jrexpose a mtd char device02:30
redeemanofcourse that's never gonna come02:30
sandmanhmm.. there you have it. A filesystem for really small systems02:30
redeemanwinblows doesn't support it02:30
mavhcthe problem is the translation layer on flash devices02:30
luke-jrsandman: eh, that's jffs2 for sure02:30
redeemanluke-jr: jffs2 is only for seriously embedded use, the newer ones are much better02:31
andresredeeman: Its not like xfs did not have its own share of rather scary issues. And its own memory allocation layer (which got thinner though) is kinda scary as well.02:31
timeless_mbpsandman: roughly, the people at nokia looked around and made a decision which is hopefully best for the vast majority of potential customers02:31
SpeedEvilThere is little - sane - alternatives.02:31
timeless_mbpif you aren't an expert, perhaps you should accept that nokia might not have made an incredibly stupid decision and just accept their choice02:31
redeemanandres: it has the basic features one needs though, unlike ext3, and it is not extremely indevelopment-unstable-datalossy as ext402:32
sandmanyeah, you guys are probably better knowingly than me on this stuff02:32
SpeedEvilThe only other sort-of-sane choice would be to have an underlying FS - with an indexer daemon.02:32
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: which requires dropping USB Mass Storage02:32
SpeedEvilAt plugin time - the FS gets mounted RO - and a daemon creates a virtual FAT drive.02:32
timeless_mbpor at least creating a virtual hard disk image and translating02:32
luke-jrredeeman: ext3 has more features than the average person needs, so definitely "basic"02:32
timeless_mbpwhich is incredibly expensive02:32
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: I don't think it actually is.02:32
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: Incredibly annoying to write - sure.02:33
andresredeeman: with the tradeoff that there were bugs not fixed for a release because christoph hellwig was not around...02:33
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: afaik fat doesn't require writes happen w/in any given time interval02:33
redeemanor just ignore vfat and do the sane thing, expose a REAL fs02:33
timeless_mbpalthough it's probably a good idea to do them "relatively quickly"02:33
DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp: I just doubt nokia's notion on the definition of 'potential customer'02:33
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: you completely emulate a FAT filesystem. Hmm.02:33
luke-jror just do USB networking and provide samba, n00b :)02:34
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: and i think it's vaguely legal to start grabbing clusters and building chains w/o linking them into a file right away02:34
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: I suppose writing to the filesystem from the other end would be nasty02:34
timeless_mbpluke-jr: which doesn't work because windows doesn't give you usb networking out of the box02:34
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: practically, you'd have to do icky things on that side. - like the indexer daemon in reverse - sortof.02:34
redeemanSpeedEvil, timeless_mbp: qemu has virtual vfat code02:34
redeemanand its really nasty02:34
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: really?02:35
redeemanit does kinda sorta work though02:35
GAN900timeless_mbp, usual bullshit response.02:35
redeemantimeless_mbp: so fuck winblows and provide proper stuff02:35
GAN900timeless_mbp, Nokia knows best.02:35
timeless_mbpredoh, i'm not saying it's impossible02:35
timeless_mbpi'm just saying that you might be surprised at the interesting ways in which it will break02:35
SpeedEvilYou can't say fuck winblows in a mass-market device.02:35
timeless_mbpand there's a difference between an emulator trying to work for hobbyist systems02:35
sandmanHail to Nokia! ;)02:35
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redeemanlol nokia sure isn't aiming for mainstream or anything close with the N90002:36
GAN900timeless_mbp, I've long since given up trying to fight them on that, so I don't use virtual input on that.02:36
timeless_mbpand a consumer off the self product which gets introduced into all sorts of strange real world (hostile) environments02:36
luke-jrmaybe Nokia should try to make us a device we can use free software on, then ship only the device and let programmers compete in reselling it configured for end users02:36
GAN900s/on that/anymore/02:36
infobotGAN900 meant: timeless_mbp, I've long since given up trying to fight them anymore, so I don't use virtual input on that.02:36
* GAN900 hadn't realized he dropped into another waste-of-time FAT discussion.02:37
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luke-jreg, Nokia can produce skeleton generic devices and let software developers handle the final products02:37
luke-jrsplit hardware from software development02:37
timeless_mbpe :o02:37
sandmanredeeman: Though i saw on the forums on a poll that it was about 50/50 linux and windows users02:37
redeemanluke-jr: i doubt that'd be successful02:37
luke-jrredeeman: oh well02:37
sandsmarkluke-jr: that could give the hardware a bad reputation, though02:37
ShadowJKThat was the way it was before inside nokia, wasn't it..02:37
luke-jrsandsmark: why?02:38
sandsmarkluke-jr: if there's a lot of half-assed software for it02:38
* timeless_mbp kicks mbp02:38
sandsmarkluke-jr: just look at how much better Apple's image is than Microsoft :-)02:38
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luke-jrsandsmark: Nokia sells it with no software; software developers add that and sell their own brands ;p02:38
sandsmarkproviding both hardware and software gives you greater control, and allows you to polish it much more02:38
timeless_mbpGAN900: my fn-c stroke turns into PIPE instead of EUR. i was pleassantly surprised02:38
luke-jrsandsmark: perhaps in theory, but in practice, it sucks02:38
sandsmarkluke-jr: not imho02:39
andressandsmark: thats why microsofts mice is their most reputated product ;-)02:39
sandsmarkluke-jr: again, look at apple :-P02:39
luke-jrsandsmark: just look at Maemo! :P02:39
timeless_mbplumost people aren't supposed to encourage their employers to try to go bankrupt02:39
sandsmarkandres: hehe02:39
timeless_mbppalm btw has showed what happens when you spin off your os from your phone company02:39
timeless_mbpit worked nicely02:39
sandsmarkluke-jr: I blame GTK for that :-P02:39
DocScrutinizer51sandman: yeah like maemo502:39
luke-jrsandsmark: GTK isn't at fault for all the Maemo code insanity02:39
DocScrutinizer51sandsmark: ^02:39
sandsmarkluke-jr: oh yes, it spreads02:39
timeless_mbpas a "at not to do"02:40
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doubleukaytimeless_mbp, how did you configure it like that02:40
sandsmarkbrainrot from gtk is not all that unusal, I tihnk02:40
luke-jrsandsmark: pretty sure GTK doesn't hardcode usernames02:40
fredrinhow does aircrack-ng work on the n90002:40
timeless_mbpheck, even the sybian disaster demos that02:40
timeless_mbpnokia had to *buy* symbian to fix it02:40
sandsmarktimeless_mbp: Symbian sells just the software, though02:40
sandsmarknow that nokia sells both software and hardware, it is better02:41
sandsmarkwhich proves my point :-P02:41
redeemantimeless_mbp: rofl, are you saying symbian is fixed? what are you smoking?02:41
timeless_mbpdoubleukay: afaik, i didn't do anything02:41
timeless_mbpi haven't had time to investigate to see if there's some strange package or new feature involved02:41
fralsanyone else having problems with
fralstiming out every other page here02:41
sandsmarkmaybe it is realated to this breaking:
ShadowJK<standard response> It's the time of week when everyone wants to use it, of course it's broken </standard response>02:41
MohammadAG_frals, repos down here too02:42
timeless_mbpredjust the organizational problem02:42
timeless_mbpi'm not saying their stack is fixed02:42
ShadowJKHopefully nokia fixes silly stuff that was rumoured02:43
ShadowJKLike the symbian signed people having this webform that printed out a sheet of paper in one room, and then a perosn fetching it and typing it in on another compute in order to process someone's signing request02:44
timeless_mbpShadowJK: err, isn't that how you're supposed to do it?02:45
timeless_mbpyou don't want signing keys exposed to hackable computers02:45
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: that's how german electronic tax ELSTER works :-D02:45
timeless_mbpi'd be incredibly scared if their signing keys were on connected computers02:46
timeless_mbpor computers which accepted usb input02:46
timeless_mbpusb is a good carrier for virii02:46
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SpeedEvilI want the signing machine to only take punched cards.02:47
ShadowJKIt makes for a frustrating experience when you just want to test your new build and hve to wait for some monkeys to type in stuff :-)02:47
SpeedEvilWhich are burned before reading.02:47
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: done correctly that'll increase the optical contrast XP02:48
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: how's your skyshot project?02:54
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: seemingly inconclusive.02:54
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I need to try again to see if it was properly focussed on infinity02:55
SpeedEvilsome indications are it wasn't02:55
DocScrutinizer51no manual focus (?)02:56
SpeedEvilI'm unsure how the focus is set02:56
tremnite all, sweet dreams02:56
SpeedEvil(other than at the lowest level)02:56
DocScrutinizer51lowest level means sys?02:58
SpeedEvilno - i2c02:58
DocScrutinizer51very secret knowledge02:59
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SpeedEvilwell- it's one of hte published datasheets for a current output DAC03:02
ShadowJKI think there are v4l ioctls?03:02
SpeedEvilI don'tr of course know what drives this03:02
SpeedEvilgst-streamer possibly isn't doing them03:02
DocScrutinizer51tbh I even doubt this shitty autofocus has any notion of 'infinity' as a predefined setting03:03
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DocScrutinizerread out the focus setting on a nice daylight mountain shot, then echo $infinity >/sy/cam/focus ?03:11
jacekowskiso, does anybody know why video quality that comes out of gmail is so bad?03:12
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DocScrutinizercause it's gmail?03:12
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lcukjacekowski, cos gmail is for mail03:12
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esaym153hmm, I just tried to run apt-get update for the first time in several months on my n810 and it seems like half of the repos are down?03:13
esaym153is maemo dieing or just overloaded?03:13
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lcukesaym153, theres word that maemo repos are somewhat done in atm, if you have older n810 specific repos those might be down totally tho now.03:14
DocScrutinizer[2010-02-14 01:41:58] <ShadowJK> <standard response> It's the time of week when everyone wants to use it, of course it's broken </standard response>03:14
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esaym153what the heck03:14
jacekowskihow to initiate jabber video call from n900?03:14
DocScrutinizerwho gives a fsck?03:15
esaym153I do03:16
Tobagiving a fuck status: presently not giving one03:16
fralshrr, playing hockey for 2½hrs after not doing any kind of exercise for the last year... i have a feeling the coming day or two is gonna be painful :P03:17
lcuklol frals03:17
fralsnot like im gonna do any physical activity the coming days anyway... DOH, valentines day :P03:18
esaym153lcuk: where to get info on the repos at?03:18
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esaym153I need to install some software03:18
lcukindeed you do, ive only heard from here tho, is the stuff you want from the maemo repositories?  if so, just keep trying03:19
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pillarsending to the autobuilder seems to not work as well03:20
esaym153yes, every repo on or sees to just give a 504, Ever tried going there on my desktop machine, same thing03:21
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pillarI think Nokia should have considered other isp's than geocities as well :)03:22
hajmolaanyone know if one can skype through edge on the n900? I'm looking to purchase one but don't live in a complete 3g area03:22
lcukodd, the cover page loads ( but the content doesnt03:22
DocScrutinizeredge seems a lil thin for VoIP03:23
hajmolayeah, it does but I was wondering if anyone had first hand experience...03:23
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: depends on codec03:23
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: GSM codec can run more than fine over edge03:24
DocScrutinizeractually it does, but on skype you have no clue what codec is used03:24
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ShadowJKthe latency is probably worse03:24
sandmandoes Nokia just have one repo server? that is bad. They should have at least two or three for backup.03:24
jacekowskiit's only jutter and delays that are real problem03:24
hajmolahm, so noe one has tried it?03:24
ShadowJKsandman, it has akamai03:24
jacekowskisandman: have you heard about clusters03:24
sandmanjacekowski: yeah03:25
DocScrutinizerhajmola: tbh I kicked skype off all my machines years ago03:25
DocScrutinizerit's *BAD*03:25
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hajmolaDocScrutinizer, well, I'm talking specifically about the n90003:26
jacekowskihajmola: i've tried it03:26
jacekowskihajmola: and well, it's working03:26
DocScrutinizerall machines includes N900. Thought that's obvious03:26
hajmolajacekowski, thanks, call quality?03:27
DocScrutinizerESPECIALLY N900. Skype prolly sucks bat as if there's no next call03:27
jacekowskisame shit as ussual03:27
jacekowskii know people that use skype over mobile broadband03:28
jacekowskiand they are barely covered by 2g03:28
SpeedEvilhajmola: GPRS has latencies of up to 2s though03:28
SpeedEvilhajmola: so you might not be happy - even if it works from a bw POV03:28
jacekowskiand it works reasonably well03:29
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: it's not much worse than normall call03:29
SpeedEvilFor GPRS - the delay is ~1s-2s here.03:29
DocScrutinizerdud, that's definitely impossible03:29
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SpeedEvilI haven't tried edge03:30
SpeedEvil3g is lots better03:30
DocScrutinizer(not much worse)03:30
DocScrutinizeryeah, alsost as low latency as HSCSD03:32
DocScrutinizerwhich in turn has almost same latency as GSM voice03:32
wazdlooks like my PC was a part of a botnet :)03:37
ShadowJKgprs is fun, I've seen icmp ping replies of 70 seconds :)03:38
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DocScrutinizerI've seen IRC pings stored up for 90sec on 3G as well though03:42
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DocScrutinizerjust 2h ago03:43
DocScrutinizerin a pub with poor coverage03:43
ShadowJKoh in my case it was more like "If I send UDP packets at slightly faster than it can handle I should get the full speed on the other end, right, lol"03:44
ShadowJKit worked very well for a little while, at some point I think the network is like "too many bytes queued, gtfo" and disconnects :(03:45
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DocScrutinizeryou never know what carrier does to "overall ensure quality of service"03:51
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PavelHildon App Manager only upgrades libraries when applications are upgraded, right?04:06
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ShadowJKoh wow, nilfs2 seems to work now in 2.6.3204:16
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ShadowJKI thought it was broken, but it turned out I had booted my sheevaplug with a kernel accidentally04:17
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sandmanShadowJK: nilfs2 looks good in a developing state of use but how good is it in other uses?04:34
ShadowJKnilfs2 looks nice on sd04:34
sandmanhow fast will it fill up the disc?04:35
ShadowJKdunno, old stuff gets removed unless you ask to keep it04:35
sandmansorry for my noobish questions.. never heard of it before04:35
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ShadowJKby default it keeps stuff around for an hour, it seems04:38
sandmancool! It would be a good filesystem for early testing04:39
ShadowJKI'm mostly interested in it because it writes stuff into a giant log... almost totally sequentially all the time04:40
sandmanyeah, that could be useful04:41
ShadowJK(SD-type storage is extremely slow at random writes)04:41
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ShadowJKFor example when I copy a 3 gigabyte directory tree with mostly 1 - 500kbyte files onto a USB memory stick, I get about 500kbytes/sec with ext3, and 5000kbytes/sec with nilfs204:41
SpeedEvilIt can get much slower than that04:42
SpeedEvil(than 10:1 slowdown)04:42
ShadowJKthis device has a sequential write speed of about 20 megabytes/sec04:42
sandmanhmm.. so what is the fastest filesystem for SD. Not thinking of stability.04:44
ShadowJKperhaps LogFS04:44
ShadowJKbtrfs was a bit unpredictable when I tested it (both stability and speed)04:44
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sandmanhmm.. this could be something (LogFS)04:45
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sandmanJust need my device to come :)04:46
sandmanthanks for the input shadow04:47
SpeedEviljust be careful when googling nilfs04:47
sandmani bet someone got a supprise looking that up ;)04:48
Tobaon the n900, the virtual keyboard works fine for maemo apps with text fields.. but how do I get it to show up for the x terminal?04:50
TobaI can't type things like pipe symbol04:50
* DocScrutinizer thinks google and SpeedEvil are special friends04:57
crashanddieanyone very good with mod_rewrite and .htaccess files here?05:00
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luke-jrcrashanddie: me?05:21
crashanddieluke-jr: k05:22
crashanddieluke-jr: I have a rewrite rule which makes my index.php disappear05:22
crashanddieso I can call directly domain.tld/whatever/foo/12305:22
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crashanddieand my PHP scripts will receive whatever/foo/123 as parameters05:22
crashanddieI want to make it so that when I call domain.tld/2010/06/front it actually goes to domain.tld/edition/index/2010/06/front05:23
crashanddie    RewriteRule ^(\d+)/(\d+)$ index.php?/edition/index/$1/$2 [L]05:24
crashanddie(in this case it's domain.tld/2010/06)05:24
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luke-jrcrashanddie: RewriteRule ^/?(\d+/.*)$ /edition/index/$1 [R=301]05:34
luke-jrcrashanddie: put before other rules05:35
crashanddie thanks05:35
VoltageXhi, is there a way to use the python hildon-banner from the command line?05:35
VoltageXI *do NOT* need a full hildon app, only notifications!!05:35
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crashanddieluke-jr: no go, sadly05:40
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crashanddieluke-jr: I can dump the rewrite.log and my full .htaccess if that made things easier05:46
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ml-somethingcan anyone go at tmo with a pickaxe?05:51
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crashanddiemicrolith: to do what?05:51
microlithdistill those complaint threads down to something at least somewhat useful05:51
crashanddieyeah, I've stopped caring about that05:51
crashanddieeverytime a mod tries to make things better by centralising the complaints or delete useless and trolling threads, we get told that we're Nokia's buffoons tryign to silence their complaints05:52
crashanddiewhen we ask them to keep it down, and to try to be constructive, we get told we're elitists from the old garde05:53
SpeedEvilTMO can only be insane.05:53
SpeedEvilIts very structure is meant to drive that tendancy in posters.05:54
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, ah, don't you love it? :P05:54
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: No, I don't like it05:54
GeneralAntillesDamn elitist bastard05:54
GeneralAntillesTrying to keep the working stiff down05:54
GeneralAntillesYou and your cabals05:54
crashanddieworking stiff?05:54
SpeedEvilThere is no global overview, a tendancy to - because of the 10 threads/page limit - to simply read and respond to the last page, ...05:54
crashanddieis that a oephemism for male hooker?05:54
luke-jrcrashanddie: got a link I can examine?05:55
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, hey, at least they're consistent. ;)05:55
crashanddieluke-jr: not public, I'll send the .htaccess and log to a pastebin, that alright?05:56
luke-jreh, I guess; but I figure things out by trial and error05:57
crashanddieluke-jr: yeah... I know05:57
crashanddieluke-jr: well, if you have an FTP I don't mind putting things on it05:57
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crashanddiewe'll get massive database errors, but the hell with it05:57
luke-jrcrashanddie: meh, log is easier than messing with that05:58
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crashanddieluke-jr: log: htaccess:
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luke-jrcrashanddie: looks like it worked to me06:06
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crashanddieluke-jr: split uri=index.php?/ -> uri=index.php, args=/
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crashanddieluke-jr: got it06:10
crashanddieluke-jr: changed R301 to L06:10
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crashanddieluke-jr: yup, working fine now, thanks heaps mate06:17
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luke-jrcrashanddie: np. remember this next time you think I am a mere troll :P06:19
crashanddieluke-jr: will do06:19
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sandmanDamn.. the more i see about this N900 the more i love it. :) Nokia know their stuff07:11
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VoltageXYZsandman: you won't love the dev documentation or the community07:13
VoltageXYZthe dev documentation is incomplete and the community is only interested in the next SNES/PS1 emulator release07:13
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GeneralAntillesVoltageXYZ, clearly. :rolleyes:07:13
* man_in_irssi waves07:13
man_in_irssibeen a while since i've been here07:14
VoltageXYZGeneralAntilles: seriously, try finding a DBUS reference07:14
GeneralAntillesVoltageXYZ, I find your take on the community more hilarious.07:14
GeneralAntillesEither way, trolling isn't particularly appreciated.07:14
VoltageXYZGeneralAntilles: Maemo's DBUS methods are quite different, yet they're not documented anywhere07:14
sandmanwell.. except crashanddies wellcomming words in the beginning.. i just love the community07:14
VoltageXYZhow am I trolling?07:15
man_in_irssianyone know a way to get roxterm on diablo to treat the fullscreen button correctly? :)07:15
VoltageXYZI've just spent the afternoon failing to create a little yellow notification at the top of my N90007:15
* man_in_irssi trolls GeneralAntilles 07:15
GeneralAntillesVoltageXYZ, libnotify is what you're after.07:15
GeneralAntillesVoltageXYZ, realize, though, that it's actually not intended for 3rd party use.07:16
VoltageXYZusing libnotify results in a tiny little white box popping up in the corner then fading out nicely.07:16
VoltageXYZand the hildon-banner example creates an ENTIRE GTK APPLICATION just to display a notification that should be one line of code.07:16
GeneralAntillesVoltageXYZ, I find unjustified slights against this community hard to stomach.07:16
GeneralAntillesJust because you've had a hard afternoon doesn't mean you need to vent your spleen on us. :)07:17
VoltageXYZI'm looking for a) a way to use hildon-banner without a whole GTK app, and b) a complete reference of Maemo's DBUS variation.07:17
GeneralAntillesTalk to qwerty12 if you need assistance with notifications.07:17
VoltageXYZwhat timezone is qwerty12 in?07:18
VoltageXYZAustralia here.07:18
GeneralAntillesPM or email are most effective since he hasn't been on IRC in forever.07:18
VoltageXYZeh I think I'll give up for the moment07:19
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sandmanVoltageXYZ: sometimes a good night sleep is all that it takes07:19
VoltageXYZthe annoying thing is I got a modal notification going07:19
VoltageXYZsandman: sleep won't help if I can't see the DBUS namespace at all.07:20
sandmanhehe.. true :)07:20
VoltageXYZtrying to find a dbus-browser for Maemo currently07:20
sandmansorry, can't help you there.. <-- noob on N90007:21
VoltageXYZsigh, Maemo mailing list says the notification interface is undocumented07:23
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sandmanhmm.. you probably already know this.. but Ubuntu use the hildon too. Maybe you could some referens there..07:29
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DocScrutinizer(notification) still a lot of OSS apps use it. E.g. fm-receiver07:33
* DocScrutinizer points to incredible mdbus introspection feature07:33
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VoltageXYZyeah tomorrow maybe I'll script up some introspection - d-feet crashes badly on N90007:37
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DocScrutinizerpython ;-)07:38
DocScrutinizerno crash on maemo507:39
VoltageXYZd-feet is also python :P but more dependencies07:39
VoltageXYZDocScrutinizer: THANKS!07:39
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maemousercn i get some support on the n90009:06
maemousersuch as how do i add missed calls to the desktop menu09:06
maemouserinstead of going all the way to the phone09:06
man_in_irssihumm, no pgup09:06
maemouserman_in_irssi: talking to someone else?09:07
maemouserwhats pgup?09:07
man_in_irssican't view my backlog09:08
ShadowJKman_in_irssi, statusbar?09:10
ShadowJKin xterm09:10
ShadowJKctrl, tab, exc, pgup, pgdn, fullscreen09:10
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man_in_irssigood idea though09:12
maemousercn i get some support on the n900?09:13
maemousersuch as how do i add missed calls to the desktop menu09:13
maemouseris it possible to add it like a wdiget09:13
maemouserbasically if i get a missed call i'd like to see it liosted on the desktop09:14
* ShadowJK doesn't know, sorry09:14
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crashanddieJaffa: my framework is ready to host the website -- all dynamic, not static HTML pages anymore09:19
crashanddiemaemouser: please don't repeat your questions so often09:20
crashanddiemaemouser: if someone can help, they will09:20
maemousercrashanddie yeah09:20
maemouserso any idea about my question?09:20
crashanddieit's not possible as far as I'm aware, at least not out-of-the-box09:20
crashanddieMaybe someone could hack small widget that would call the phone API, but honestly I don't know if it's available09:20
maemouseris it going to be able?09:21
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maemouseris it going to be avilable?09:21
crashanddieas I said, I don't know if it's technically possible with the current state of the API, I haven't looked at it09:21
maemouserso when can we upgrade to the new maemo09:21
maemouseror the next verson09:21
crashanddiewhat new maemo?09:22
maemousermaemo 6 of course09:22
crashanddiemaemouser: The N900 will most likely not be supported by Maemo 609:22
maemouserand why not09:23
maemouserthis phone is still new09:23
maemouserand gees expensive09:23
maemouserand only the very next version cant be supported on this phone?!09:23
crashanddiemaemouser: I have work to do, not time to listen to moaners, sorry. The forums have tons of information, and so does Google.09:23
maemouseroh sweet09:23
maemouseryeah im moaning09:23
maemousernew phone09:23
maemouserfuckload of money09:24
maemouserand the newxt version has no support for n90009:24
maemousersweet fucking ripof09:24
GeneralAntillesmaemouser, dude, Maemo 6 MIGHT be out Q1 next year.09:24
maemouserhappy maemoing09:24
maemouserfuck thgat shit09:24
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GeneralAntillesmaemouser, nobody knows whether Maemo 6 will support the N900.09:24
maemouserthis shit works cock09:24
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GeneralAntillesYou forgot a snarky reason, though. :P09:24
crashanddieif he comes back, I'll kick him with reason "GeneralAntilles"... Snarky enough for you?09:25
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RST38hcrashanddie: "attempted trolling the Prince of Darkness"09:32
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Ken-YoungI was kinda hoping to see if maemouser would explode.09:34
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RST38hHe will, eventually.09:35
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RST38hHeh, jaem publicly exploded right on tmo =)09:35
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VoltageXYZit's a preview phone, it always was a preview phone and it still is a preview phone. I just wish it came at a preview price.09:39
WolfieGeneralAntilles: correction: there are people who know the support status, but they're under NDA09:41
GeneralAntillesWolfie, actually, they may not even be sure at this point. :)09:42
WolfieGeneralAntilles: my inside-guy has said to know the answer, but not at the liberty to tell09:42
Wolfieso i09:42
VoltageXYZit's not even useful to say that kind of thing, just stirs up the masses09:43
Wolfiei'm pretty certain that the status is already known and solid09:43
WolfieVoltageXYZ: you don't say09:43
VoltageXYZall that it means for me is my next nokia purchase is 3+ years away instead of 1 year away.09:43
VoltageXYZand my peer group has all moved away from Nokia etc etc.09:44
VoltageXYZend result is Nokia loses customers.09:44
Wolfiewell, i wouldn't buy a new cell phone a year after my previous anyways09:44
VoltageXYZAlthough, you can sum it all up by saying "Maemo is open, Nokia is not"09:44
Wolfieno matter what hype. Although, I might've skipped the n900 if i'd known that in a year, there's a newer and better phone/os combination, which isn't backwards compatible09:45
SpeedEvilThe n900 could have shipped with considerably more binary modules than it has.09:45
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SpeedEvilfor example09:45
Wolfieand that isn't saying that i know that maemo6 would be backwards incompatible09:45
SpeedEvilNot to mention the plausibility of mer being a real alternative in a year09:46
VoltageXYZyeah, I should have skipped the N900 as well. It's better than OpenMoko, but still not there.09:46
VoltageXYZwhat's Mer?09:46
GeneralAntillesWolfie, not accurate.09:46
GeneralAntillesWolfie, both will ship Qt 4.6.09:46
infobotwell, mer is, or on #mer09:46
RST38hVoltageXYZ: I am using my preview phone daily09:46
WolfieGeneralAntilles: well, there's the aspect of multitouch09:46
RST38hVoltageXYZ: I tried giving up on my preview phone and going to the real phone and it did not work.09:47
WolfieGeneralAntilles: but, as said, i have no info about the compatibility status09:47
RST38hHow weird is that?09:47
VoltageXYZso am I. But I won't be able to use it when I'm travelling due to Ovi Maps being broken.09:47
villagerthe osso-icons-default artwork is non-free, right?09:47
RST38hThere are Maep, Maemo Maps, eCoach, and a few other alternatives09:47
VoltageXYZRST38h: all of which download map tiles on the fly, which will send me broke when travelling internationally.09:48
RST38hVoltageXYZ: They all cache.09:48
RST38hSo, you can precache09:48
VoltageXYZyes, but with a working Ovi maps I can download the 1GB europe pack at home on DSL.09:49
Ken-YoungVoltageXYZ, Are you an Openmoko refugee too?09:50
VoltageXYZKen-Young: yep, once the SD reader in my OpenMoko died09:51
RST38hAs there is no working Ovi Maps, I do not see why this is relevant09:51
VoltageXYZRST38h: to avoid going bankrupt, I need to "precache" maps for Germany and France09:51
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RST38hThen precache maps for Germany and France.09:53
VoltageXso there is a way to wget from Google Maps or OSM?09:54
RST38hAny map application will do it automatically09:54
RST38hall you need is give it a few scrolls through the map at different resolutions09:54
VoltageXI'm not quite understanding you09:54
VoltageX...I need to *manually scroll* through *two countries*09:54
RST38hand yes, you can wget from Google Maps or OSM09:54
RST38halthough nobody has written a proper script yet (except for Maemo Maps, where it is currently not operational AFAIK)09:55
VoltageXhopefully before I go overseas someone will have got it working09:55
VoltageXor Nokia will fix Ovi Maps.09:56
VoltageXor I'll just go back to my N95 :/09:56
* RST38h would not go back to N95 for maps09:59
RST38h320x240. Ridiculous, with or without offline map downloads09:59
VoltageXworked fine for me for 2 years :P but I understand10:02
SpeedEvilRST38h: Do you realise how _huge_ raster maps are?10:03
RST38hSpeedEvil: Yep10:03
SpeedEvilRST38h: You're looking at easily hundreds of times the size of vector maps10:03
VoltageXI'm guessing RST38h is on a much cheaper/faster internet connection than you or I10:04
SpeedEvilThere is also the problem that a popular app that downloads maps from OSM will kill the OSM tileservers10:04
SpeedEvilthey are currently peaking at 80M of 100M ethernet IIRC10:04
VoltageXso give me a torrent...10:05
SpeedEviltorrents handle updating poorlyunfortunately.10:06
SpeedEvilThe right solution is a nice vector map program - but none is quite there yet10:06
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villagergrr, can't seem to download sources from repository.maemo.org10:18
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JaffaMorning, all10:58
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Ken-YoungGood morning, Jaffa11:00
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crashanddiemorning Jaffa11:41
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crashanddieJaffa: the portal is ready to host a new edition if you want. I'm still using an importer from the text file to database though11:45
crashanddieJaffa: working on the subeditors/editors portal at the moment11:45
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Arnoudhi does anybody have any problem with root use? for the root user everthing now is read-only11:58
valdynArnoud: thats not possible unless it is mounted read-only11:58
Arnoudbut i'm talking about /home/user/Mydocs11:59
Arnoudlet me see where it is mounted11:59
valdynArnoud: "mount | grep MyDocs"12:00
Arnoudit says in mount rw  and fmask=013312:00
Arnoudthanks for answering the call btw :D12:01
dnaumovArnoud: I've had a similar issue where the filesystem became ro, despite being mounted as rw according to mount12:01
dnaumovArnoud: see
povbot`Bug 8926: rootfs stuck in readonly mode (UBIFS error (pid 398): ubifs_scan: LEB 402 scanning failed)12:01
Arnoudsince it's Mydocs ill do a reboot see if that works, though i hate reboots in linux :)12:02
valdynArnoud: guess you need to reboot12:02
valdynArnoud: kernel bug or the fs is actually broken12:02
Arnoudahh i see it indeed, incase of error it reboots to ro12:02
Arnoudthough it still says rw12:02
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Arnoudthought at first my sshd was borked12:03
dnaumovthe fun part is that if you try to edit fstab to disable the "mount as ro in case of error", you cant SAVE your change, because fstab is on the ro filesystem :)12:03
Arnoudsince when does the telephone reboot itself when you press the (I) key long ?12:04
tank-manmaybe a fsck can fix it12:04
dnaumovno such thing as fsck for ubifs12:05
dnaumovI remember reading dev notes saying "due to the nature of how ubifs, no fsck tool is needed", yeah right, famous last words12:06
andresmount -o remount,rw might work if you dare to try...12:06
dnaumovhow ubifs+works12:06
valdynwhere does ubifs matter here where MyDocs is vfat ?12:06
Arnoudi rebooted already gonna check now if it works12:07
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Arnoudi should have looked first hand at bugs thanks dnaumov12:08
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plastunhello! can anybody help me with hildon FileChooserDialog?12:15
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plastunoh, I solve my problem ;)12:19
pupniksome c code is very unportable12:20
pupnikpanucci player has constant dropouts12:21
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pillarservers still down? the isp really doesn't have any weekend support?12:26
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pupnikwhat error you get12:30
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ifreqand is the error related to apt-get/app manager on device, or within maemo sdk12:30
RST38hmirror mirror on the wall...12:31
pupniki think the nogravity guys may release for n900 RST38h12:32
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pupnikthey fixed their stuff for iphone12:32
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RST38hpupnik: =8)12:34
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RST38hpupnik: It is just a shooter though, no Elite-like trading stuff?12:35
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RST38hpupnik: BTW, Windoze version does not download for some reason =(12:38
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pupnikno trading12:41
pupnikin the open source version12:41
Jaffacrashanddie: cool, not going to have online time until this afternoon12:42
crashanddieJaffa: ok12:43
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Jaffacrashanddie: but assuming a) site is scalable and b) db username/pass isn't hardcoded in source code, we can try putting it online later (leave me instructions if you're in bed)12:44
* Arif yawns12:44
pupnikmaybe x3 guiys will release for maemo12:45
crashanddieJaffa: just a config file in which to put username/password and db host. I have a sql schema as well12:45
pupnikwhatwever terrible ubngoogleable name those idiot germans chose12:45
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HukkaOh for... This is off topic, but seems like Uiemo is from Tieto12:46
HukkaOr they have some kind of private access to it12:46
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Jaffacrashanddie: /me nods12:49
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Jaffacrashanddie: seen and the corresponding resources/download.php in svn? Not sure quite yet where to put the link, possibly in the ToC12:59
RST38h"Under Obama, targeted killings take precedence" (C)WashPost12:59
crashanddieJaffa: didn't see that12:59
crashanddieJaffa: btw, site works dynamically as
crashanddieJaffa: if absolutely required, I can add .html at the end, but I think it's superfluous13:01
crashanddieJaffa: sections (front page, community) is dynamically generated as well, specify their order, etc13:01
crashanddieJaffa: let me finish the user implementation and I'll work on the download page, should be easy13:02
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Arnoudwith what application can i see window shares on the nn900 because in mediaplayer i can see them but they seem to be empty.13:18
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dnaumovArnoud: most likely because the background media indexer is not indexing your shares13:19
Jaffacrashanddie: cool, we should also make sure we send appropriate cache control headers (e.g. expires at 6am on next Monday)13:19
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crashanddieJaffa: there is no caching, is there?13:20
Arnouddnaumov: how can i make it so? just wait a long time?13:20
crashanddieJaffa: different folder structure13:20
crashanddieJaffa: one minute points to /2010/06/front, the next one it points to /2010/07/front13:20
crashanddieJaffa: and /2010/06/front doesn't expire13:21
Jaffacrashanddie: yeah, hence the Expires of "next Monday"13:21
Jaffacrashanddie: It does, becausde it has a list of issues13:21
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crashanddieJaffa: good point13:21
crashanddieJaffa: it'll be good if it's on the server, I could use a critical eye13:22
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ShapeshifterDoes someone know a simple tagger program for the n900?13:25
ShapeshifterI need to tag a few mp3s13:25
ShapeshifterCLI is okay.13:25
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Shapeshifteralso, how can I search apt-cache in a less "general" way. everytime I do a search it lists hundrets of packages13:26
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JaffaShapeshifter: Mussorgsky is a GUI app13:33
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ShapeshifterJaffa: thanks13:36
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matthew-Something happened to my n900....13:36
matthew-Something horrible13:36
Stskeepsit's hungover?13:36
matthew-well, a) to slowed down13:37
matthew-hell knows why, and the repos13:37
matthew-i cant 'disable' catalogues13:37
Stskeepsa) is probably tracker thumbnailing going crazy13:37
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matthew-Can I just disable the repos i dont want and then apt-get upgrade ?13:39
matthew-or update?13:39
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matthew-'checking for updates' in the app manager is actually apt-get update, right?13:44
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matthew-plastun: are the repos working correctly?13:45
plastunmatthew-, not sure, I can't we the Fremantle repository in my browser13:46
plastunService Unavailable13:47
plastunThe server is temporarily unable to service your request. Please try again later.13:47
wazdheya all13:47
Stskeepsmorn wazd13:48
wazdStskeeps: installed W7 finally13:48
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matthew-Dunno why, but my phone seems 'slow'13:49
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plastunw7must die :)13:50
wazdplastun: yeayea :)13:50
plastunyea :)13:50
plastunwazd, I almost finished working on beta10!13:51
LB1938we really need to get tsocks patched so it doesnt leak dns13:51
plastuntags binding will be available13:51
LB1938or to get torsocks working,13:51
LB1938was anyone able to get it working ?13:52
wazdplastun: awesome13:52
crashanddiewhat are the odds, md5 generated: abcabcabc9b1d6e0f620060eb354113:55
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andrescrashanddie: about the same odds as for any other md5 ;-)13:57
crashanddieandres: fair point13:58
andres(which is not exactly true because of some structural weaknesses, but ...)13:58
crashanddieI just absolutely hate it when you choose a library because some guy was actually pretty smart when he thought of it13:59
crashanddiesadly, his implementation is less than ideal...13:59
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crashanddieLet me demonstrate13:59
crashanddie <- original library14:02
crashanddie <- my "version"14:03
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crashanddiehe wants to save on a 3 queries per user registration ;?14:05
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Arifmorning :o14:06
Jophish_n900goodmorning Arif14:08
Arifwhat's up *yawn*14:08
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cehtehhey my n900 has magic self-charging14:53
cehtehbattery eye shows an increase in charge while it laied on the table, not connected to charger14:54
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villagerfinally, wireless charging14:55
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cehtehnow i resist to plug it into the charger .. who knows what dimension that will open and what will creep out of it14:58
RST38hcehteh: I bet you missed SCP-324 yesterday14:58
RST38hoh, wait, wrong one. a moment14:59
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threshcehteh: remember to have your towel nearby14:59
cehtehwell looks like its decreasing now :/15:00
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PBecki have a question to pymaemo. I use the touchselector for a list, how can i remove all items in one column?15:04
PBeckwhen i use remove_column, how can i add a new column?15:05
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PBeckah i  have found a solution15:12
PBecki create a new empty gtk.treeview15:12
RST38hAhhha! Picasa sharing plugin is finally in extras!15:12
* RST38h cackles 15:13
PBeckand set it as new model => set_model(0, emptytreeview)15:13
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* RST38h will now be able to send his shitty cellphone photos straight to picasa15:13
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Vanadisis the repository down?15:24
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hcarreganobody works in weekend15:25
StskeepsVanadis: it jumps up and down15:27
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hcarregasince yesterday i want to update ovi new update15:28
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hcarregaand nothing15:28
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crashanddieJaffa: download page finished15:40
timeless_mbpfwiw the maemo news thing is nice15:41
crashanddietimeless_mbp: we're putting it on steroids15:41
timeless_mbpi'll get around to buzzing it once i resolve some my buzz credentials15:41
crashanddietimeless_mbp: at the moment the compilation of an edition is pretty much manual15:42
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I've just finished the backend engine for the display, working on the subeditors and editors portal15:42
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Milo-any clues on when the next nokia update will arrive?15:48
Stskeepsyour guess is just as good as ours15:48
crashanddieMilo-: I overheard a russian spy thinking it may have been on Valentine's to show us some love, but well, that was just a hoax, as it turns out15:48
ifreqi heard next patch will be doing silently so no one notices even15:49
Jaffacrashanddie: cool; I've linked it in as "Download issue" under the list of sections and included it at the end of the email announcement and in the "In this issue" for the tmo announcement15:49
crashanddieJaffa: will you be available tomorrow to talk/test things?15:49
Jaffacrashanddie: Yup15:50
RST38hOk, irreco goes into the trashbin.15:50
crashanddieJaffa: ok, good. I'll be online from 6PM my time, so roughly 8AM your time15:50
Jaffacrashanddie: Cool, I'll be at work from about 08:4515:50
crashanddieJaffa: any chance I get credentials on the webserver or those are confidential?15:51
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Jaffacrashanddie: Depends what you want to do ;-)15:51
crashanddieJaffa: I don't mind paying for them, seeing you're renting bits of the server out :P15:51
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Jaffacrashanddie: Account is fine15:51
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wazd what the fuck is that I wonder16:02
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MohammadAGdeveloper/loser LOL16:04
RST38hwazd: the fuck.16:05
wazdRST38h: what fuck exactly? :D16:05
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RST38hwazd: Another resourceful character who recently discovered copypasting16:06
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RST38hwazd: Namely, some Simon Challis from Laindon, UK16:07
lcukwow wazd, you became an author!16:07
Tronxhow can force a terminal to open in a script ?16:07
RST38hwazd: Unfortunately, the database does not reveal his mommy's phone, so you will not be able to call her16:07
RST38hTronx: -e16:07
wazdRST38h: damn :(16:07
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RST38hwazd: But you can call the sucker himself, it is (089) 850-5050 (UK number)16:08
TronxRST38h : what does that mean? -e ?16:08
RST38hwazd: Or, if you like paper trails,
RST38hTronx: If you have to ask, you do not need to know.16:08
Tronxpart of what tool/command is that?16:08
TronxRST38h : you are expecting me to go "-e" ?16:10
RST38hwazd: the guy appears to be some kind of a spammer advertising poket sites16:10
wazdRST38h: you've quit Intel and now working in CIA? :D16:11
RST38hwazd: My guess is that he generates fake "news sites" to generate hits to the above site16:11
RST38hwazd: google for definitions of "intel" =)16:11
wazdyeayea ;)16:12
ifreqthe sites mentioned just copy stuff from original sites (sometimes on the fly) and try to attract ppl to visith them to get more hits16:12
ifreqmore hits = more money16:12
ifreqits pain, like spamming and seems to continuoysly growing too16:13
ifreqi call them empty vessel sites16:13
RST38hYou can probably sent slimy little Simon's provider a DMCA request16:13
RST38hThat would be cool16:13
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ifreqyou can try yeah.16:13
* RST38h will got stock up on food, before he has to resort to eating the parrot.16:13
TronxRST38h :gnome-terminal -e ? hows that going to work on maemo ?16:15
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lcukwazd, how did you find you had written a book?16:21
wazdlcuk: received $20k with a note :D16:22
lcukthats nice then! lol16:22
Tronxguys, how do i start a new terminal from a script on this n900 ?16:24
Tronxthe -e crap of RST38h doesnt seem to work :P16:24
lcuk"sh -e" appears to start a new session, but not sure beyond that, RST38h usually has incredible knowledge..16:25
Tronxdamn you RST38h , couldnt you have just said sh -e ?16:26
MohammadAGrootfs                  232868    172656     55928  76% / :D16:26
lcukMohammadAG, cool16:27
lcukare you brave enough to try a prototype optification thing to save moar space?16:28
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MohammadAGlcuk, I'm brave enough to do anything on linux :p16:29
MohammadAGcarefully optified some files/folders in /usr and in /usr/share16:29
simoneb_is there a standard way to optify packages?16:29
ifreqbraveness and stupidity are best friends ive heard16:29
fralsreflashing doesnt blow out your /opt right?16:29
lcukMohammadAG, cool, then have a read of this and see if it suits
MohammadAGifreq, you've heard wrong :p16:30
lcukfrals, no it doesnt but im guessing at some point that will change16:30
* lcuk asks ifreq to hold his beer16:30
lcukwatch this!16:31
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* ifreq drinks lcuks beer happily.. was it .. hold or drink this he wonders.16:31
* MohammadAG makes a backup, just in case :)16:32
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: nice comment in chip+pin /. article16:32
lcukMohammadAG, it takes the list of folders here:
lcukand optifies them wholesale16:32
lcukit doesnt actually run on boot yet, its a test, ive run it on my machine and gotten very good results16:33
crashanddietimeless_mbp: lol, which comment? I've put 2 or 3 in those16:33
lcukbut it needs full confirmation16:33
timeless_mbpum, cost to upgrade the us market16:33
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MohammadAGlcuk, I already have those optified16:35
lcukmost people dont16:36
MohammadAGi'll run the script though16:36
ShapeshifterThis is really awesome... streaming internet radio, right to the car stereo using the fm transmitter, and everything actually works16:36
cehtehdamn .. i played with polipo yesterday, uninstalled/purged it now and after a reboot networking is still broken16:38
pupnikexcept the signal to noise from the 50nw signal16:38
cehtehrss and maep doesnt seem to get connection to the net16:38
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lcukMohammadAG, if you can expand the list (theres many more, but scipt would need adjusting) then it would be cool16:38
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lcukMohammadAG, how did you optify them yourself, just manually?16:39
MohammadAGmv & ln -s16:39
MohammadAGso yeah, manually16:39
lcukcool, this script checks if the specified folder is already a link elsewhere16:40
lcukit tries not to make the recursive thing16:40
ShapeshifterSo there are quite a few alternative boot screens for the n900, but how about text boot? Can't find a guide how to disable a splash.16:40
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ifreqjust comment the video # ?16:41
crashanddietimeless_mbp: ah, yes16:41
ifreqhmm ah text boot16:41
lcuki keep wanting to put entire star wars trilogy as bootvideo16:41
lcukreally up the epic stakes lol16:41
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: you can delete the video entry16:41
timeless_mbpbut the thing is that there's no text console in the kernel16:42
timeless_mbpso you can't out of the box do what you're thinking of16:42
timeless_mbpyou need a replacement kernel16:42
timeless_mbpthere's one of those for this purpose too16:42
timeless_mbpbut imo it's generally a waste of time16:42
timeless_mbpi'm quite happy w/ my splash package16:42
lcukif you didnt use a replacement kernel, could you use the very early entrypoint Stskeeps put in ,ad ndo an insmod for the text stuff16:42
timeless_mbpyou're welcome to install it16:42
timeless_mbplcuk: dunno16:43
* lcuk thinks that tiny boottime patch is extremely cool16:43
MohammadAGlcuk, fatal: index-pack failed16:44
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lcukyou broke git?16:44
MohammadAGlol just installed it16:44
MohammadAGgit: 'index-pack' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'.16:45
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Tronxlcuk : any idea how to start a new terminal in a new window ?16:49
Tronxnothing seems to work today :(16:49
Tronxlcuk : im starting the script using some command execute widget sh -e doesnt open a new terminal16:50
lcukTronx, im not sure, but i think at some point, pygtkeditor used to do it when you clicked run16:50
lcukTronx, but opening console windows isnt something that happens often16:50
* lcuk just runs things direct16:51
Tronxlike opening terminal every time you want to run a script ?16:51
Tronxthat just takes too much time16:52
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lcukTronx, what are you trying to do, make icons to run your common scripts, or from somewhere within your app, when you click an action it opens a new console to perform action?16:55
MohammadAGlcuk, did you run it on the device?16:55
lcukMohammadAG, i did git from my scratchbox, hold on16:55
MohammadAGit might behave different from the sdk16:55
Tronxlcuk : from within a script i want to open another terminal and run a command because the command execute widget cant handle the long output of the command16:57
Tronxlcuk : and is it possible to make icons to run my scripts ?16:57
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Tronxim guessing then it would be possible to create shortcuts for them on the desktop16:58
MohammadAG.desktop files16:58
* MohammadAG wants to break his creaking qwerty assy into pieces16:58
JaffaFor an example of a script which opens a terminal and runs something, have a look at /usr/bin/vim.launch in the vim package16:59
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: you don't happen to know anything about legality of ? i'm kinda wondering where they got the original nokia strings from :P16:59
Stskeeps(not your en_US strings)16:59
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ArifI found near optimal settings for streaming my TV card to the N900 \o/16:59
timeless_mbpStskeeps: so we got approval to open the strings last week or so17:00
timeless_mbpat least that's when i got notice17:00
TronxMohammadAG : what are those ? where are those?17:00
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: oh, cool17:00
timeless_mbphowever that team got an internal leak17:00
Tronxits not allowing me to add icons to the desktop after a restart17:00
Tronxand what the application that handles the desktop menu ?17:00
Arifit's kinda sad that the N95 8GB plays it better than the N900 though :(17:00
Tronxand everything on the desktop disappered17:00
timeless_mbpbut those don't look like they're the originals17:00
timeless_mbpthey don't seem to have the comments17:00
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ah, so i wouldn't touch them before there's a released thing17:01
timeless_mbpthey look like msgunfmt17:01
timeless_mbpthose are msgunfmt outputs17:01
Arifanyone know if MPlayer could support hardware acceleration in the future?17:01
MohammadAGTronx, all menu icons are .desktop files, they're in /usr/share/applications/hildon/noor.desktop17:01
timeless_mbpStskeeps: you can recognize our versions, they have spelling errors and other things in # lines17:01
lcukArif, mplayer will support playing movies from the dishwasher soon17:01
TronxMohammadAG : the process that handles those -- what is it called ?17:01
MohammadAGsorry, used noor.desktop as an example cause i copied it there17:01
MohammadAGhildon-desktop afaik17:02
SpeedEvillcuk: The n900 isn't waterproof. Put it in a baggie before playing movies in the dishwasher.17:02
Tronxits not letting me add icons even after a reboot17:02
Ariflcuk, the dishwasher doesn't have loonix!17:02
* Tronx goes to kill it17:02
MohammadAGTronx, killall17:02
lcukSpeedEvil, i meant the dishwaher itself would become a coprocessor17:02
timeless_mbpStskeeps: what they did is what any translator would do17:02
MohammadAGTronx, though it should update them automatically when a file is copied in /usr/share/applications/hildon/17:02
timeless_mbpwhat i've been told is that it wouldn't fly in .eu17:02
SpeedEvillcuk: You mean you don't have a sudswoofer hooked up to your system?17:03
timeless_mbpbecause .eu has incredibly stupid laws17:03
lcukarif, plenty of people have made mplayer do amazing things17:03
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: reverse engineer? :P17:03
timeless_mbpyour legistlators are much worse than the .us equivalents17:03
Ariflcuk, too bad I don't know how :p17:03
timeless_mbpStskeeps: yeah17:03
lcukso the answer to your question is, most likely17:03
timeless_mbpStskeeps: i'm told there's something called a 'database law'17:03
ArifI'll just wait then17:03
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ah, yes, that one17:03
timeless_mbpand it sounds like it roughly speaking protects everything forever17:03
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Arifor someone should make the media player support streaming TS muxed streams17:04
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SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: database right. It is basically 'copyright for databases'.17:04
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: that's not a useful description17:04
timeless_mbpit's basically 'we own everything forever'17:04
MohammadAGhow do17:04
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: either way, if there's indications to relicense strings, that'll be good :)17:04
timeless_mbp'as long as we change one cell in it every 20 years'17:04
MohammadAGin a .sh file, how do i check if a process is running or not?17:05
SpeedEviltimeless: yes, that is a problem.17:05
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: just a tiny problem?17:05
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: it will probably alone bring maemo's OSS percentage up 10 or so :P17:05
timeless_mbpMohammadAG: pidof?17:05
* SpeedEvil is in the middle of writing a 10 page submission to government on the problem.17:05
SpeedEvilGive us our maps! - plz.17:06
SpeedEvil(anyone in the UK - please submit)17:06
SpeedEvilThe current situation is a nonsense - you can't legally publish plans of your house for example - as the house plots are derived from Ordnance survey data.17:07
SpeedEvilOr a map of rights of way17:07
SpeedEvilOr a list of public toilets.17:07
lcukheh, there was a bbc reporter stood outside toilets a couple of weeks ago17:08
lcukhe looked rly shifty on his report17:08
SpeedEvilLooking for a bit of George Michael?17:08
TronxMohammadAG : so if i just create one of those .desktop file -- an icon should show up on the desktop ?17:08
MohammadAGwell no, you have to add it using the gears icon17:09
MohammadAGit should show up in the menu though17:09
Arnoudis there any application available that does get you to your desktop with one keypress? i find it cumbersome that i have to press 2 times to get to the desktop like in shortcutd or camkeyd.17:09
MohammadAGArnoud, hold the dashboard button17:11
MohammadAGthough it's not a fast way and I find 2 clicks faster17:11
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Arnoudme too but i woul like to have a physical button because, i'm not sure if ppl here have the same thing, but when i want an application fast i still go to the menu even though i have it on my desktop17:13
ArifI found a radio stream that barely plays on the N90017:15
SpeedEvilArnoud: what you really want is for the button to popup the app launcher?17:15
ArifI guess it doesn't like WMA streams...17:15
ArnoudSpeedEvil: no just the desktop17:15
Arnoudjust like a WINKEY-D in windows or if you have set it in kde17:16
TronxMohammadAG : how about the icons :D ?17:16
Tronxim seeing stuff like icon=xchat17:17
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Tronxcan i set it to some png file located somewhere?17:17
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sandmanSpeedEvil: That sound like UK law. Have never heard of it <-- Swede17:18
SpeedEvilsandman: database right? not uk - eu17:18
MohammadAGTronx, the icons are located there17:19
Tronxyes thx17:19
Tronxone last thing!17:19
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Tronxhow the hell do i copy/paste in terminal17:19
SpeedEvilTronx: select17:19
SpeedEvilTronx: then from the top menu - copy17:19
sandmanSPeedEvil: Need to look it up.. never heard of it. lol17:20
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Shapeshifteris there some way to make ash save its history when closed by clicking the X instead of typing exit?17:22
Shapeshiftermh. well I guess I could set it to always save the history after every command execution17:23
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SpeedEvilIs there an ash manual anywhere?17:23
Shapeshifterman ash?17:24
SpeedEvilAnd anyone suggesting UTSL will be hit over the head with a large plank of fossilised wood.17:24
SpeedEvilI mean the busybox shell17:24
SpeedEvilwhich isn't strictly ash17:24
Shapeshifter(its on the net). But I was guessing that the X of the hildon interface somewhat "kills" the term instead of sending sigterm17:24
SpeedEvilI wonder if trap may be of use17:25
AstralStormbusybox shell is msh with options disabled17:25
AstralStormat least, it was in maemo 417:25
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MohammadAGsh: ./ Permission denied17:27
MohammadAGalready chmod'd the file17:27
valdynMohammadAG: the partition is mounted noexec ?17:27
valdynMohammadAG: you can run it with "sh"17:28
AstralStormyeah, that mount system in maemo is horrid17:28
sandmanSpeedEvil: Ahh.. now i know what you mean. Here it's calld FRA. Yeah, that is true. But i did not know it was like that. And everyone are braking it anyway. Using VPN's and stuff.17:28
MohammadAGmydocs, figures17:28
AstralStormnoexec is a pointless option anyway due to above17:28
MohammadAGthanks valdyn17:28
AstralStormand even normal executables (non-static) can be started17:28
AstralStormwith /lib/ or equivalent17:28
valdynAstralStorm: as root17:29
AstralStormno, as user too17:29
Stskeepsparoneayea: btw17:29
AstralStormoh btw17:29
AstralStormI've a question: does anyone here have a build of lilyterm for maemo4 and/or mer?17:30
AstralStorm(one of the best small terminals, better than that osso-xterm crud, with exception of the buttons for touchscreen use)17:30
* lcuk waves @ AstralStorm 17:31
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: so17:34
timeless_mbpcan you possibly highlight that the TPO crud is third party crud17:34
timeless_mbpat least the -installer ones17:34
MohammadAGwhat's the dbus for the yellow bar that pops down then disappears17:35
MohammadAGcouldn't find it in the wiki17:35
MohammadAGlike the Bluetooth set on one17:35
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i just use raw material but the idea is that it is what a PR1.1 image is made up of :P17:35
timeless_mbpStskeeps: and also, you need to do something about framework/mmf-libraries there's a 10% w/ a white background17:36
timeless_mbpthat row should have some gradient for the green to highlight it isn't pure17:36
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lcukMohammadAG, dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint string:"testing notification"17:36
lcuktry that17:36
Stskeepsright, - i'll fix some of the ugly CSS in next version17:36
timeless_mbpStskeeps: and for 51-1 you should dock everyone for using unpublished l10n files :)17:37
MohammadAGlcuk, thanks!17:37
timeless_mbpjust so .next looks better17:37
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: look at Localisation/l10n17:37
timeless_mbpsorry, already closed :)17:37
norayrpeople, why gcc presents in repository at17:37
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norayrbut it is not installable with apt?17:38
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: either way, there's a large list of packages that are :P17:38
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norayrduring apt-get update17:38
norayrthis repository is ignored:17:38
norayrIgn maemo4.1.2 Release.gpg17:39
norayrIgn maemo4.1.2/free Translation-en_US17:39
norayrIgn maemo4.1.2/non-free Translation-en_US17:39
norayrof course, i can install gcc by downloading packages manually17:39
valdynnorayr: none of these 3 lines is indicating that the repo is being ignored17:39
norayrand resolving deps myself17:39
crashanddienorayr: please don't flood the channel17:39
norayrThese lines is a fragment of output of apt-get update17:40
crashanddievaldyn: Ign?17:40
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norayrAnd i guess "Ign" stands for ignored17:40
norayrbecause it could also be "Hit"17:41
crashanddienorayr: you guess correctly17:41
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crashanddieign usually means that the contents/repository have been superseded17:41
valdynnorayr: the Packages file is all that matters17:41
crashanddieso apt-get doesn't bother with checking the contents17:41
AstralStormactually, maemo 4 seems to be dead17:41
norayrit may be because actual maemo4.1.2 repo is diablo17:41
norayror diablo is a symlink which points to maemo4.1.217:41
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norayrI can see necessary files by browsing repository folders via http17:42
norayri am able to download them17:42
norayrand install with dpkg -i17:42
norayrwhat i wonder is why i cannot get it work with apt-get?17:43
valdynnorayr: use apt-cache policy, show us the whole output, your fragments just make it unnecessarily hard17:43
norayrok, i'll do it right now, thanks17:44
norayrmay be this link will be helpful:
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AstralStormoh, that's repo diablo/free17:44
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valdynnorayr: thats just the pool. Not really useful unless you have apt-get failing to find a file17:45
norayrthis is the output of apt-cache policy17:47
norayrand i have added repository maemo4.1.2 to the sources.list17:47
norayrit gets scanned during apt-get update (and successfully ignored)17:48
crashanddieOK, I'm out for the night, almost 2Am17:48
crashanddietake care people17:48
norayrgood night17:48
norayrvaldyn: yes, i have added the entire repository to the sources.list17:49
norayrbuuut, gcc toolchain is still not installable17:49
norayri meant to show that it exists in the pool17:49
valdynnorayr: what "entire repository" ?17:49
valdynnorayr: somehow its not a repository at all?17:49
norayrwhich contains the pool you mentioned17:49
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norayrit is a repository.17:50
valdynnorayr: the pool is only .deb files, its not the repository17:50
norayrthere is a package index17:50
norayrjust it gets ignored17:50
norayri guess because i already have another line17:50
valdynnorayr: but this is not useful anyway,  i already asked what info i need17:50
norayrwith "diablo" instead of "maemo4.1.2" in sources.list17:50
norayrthis is what you have asked for17:51
norayri already pasted it before :)17:51
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valdynnorayr: i dont see your repo there17:52
valdynnorayr: "apt-get update"17:52
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valdynnorayr: paste paste output of that command, paste sources.list17:52
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norayrthis is it17:54
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norayrlast line in sources.list is added by me manually17:55
valdynnorayr: Err maemo4.1.2/free Packages 17:55
valdynnorayr: theres no Packages file17:55
norayrso, repo is not generated with dpkg-scanpackages17:55
norayri guess17:55
valdynnorayr: so this is not a proper repo.17:55
valdynnorayr: its not a repo.17:56
norayrand i have two choices:17:56
norayr1) download whole pool and create a local repo by running dpkg-scanpackages myself, or17:56
norayr2) just download files manually17:56
norayrthank you17:56
valdynnorayr: there could be a proper repo, i wouldnt know17:57
crashanddie_anyway, i'm off. take care bru17:57
norayrok, then ...17:57
crashanddie_shite, wrong channel17:58
norayri guess, this is a part of proper repo17:58
norayrwhich is added in my sources.list by hildon application manager17:58
norayrand i guess i was installing some packages from there17:58
valdynnorayr: a "repo" is a Packages file at a certain place, youre talking about deb files, thats not to be idientified whith what apt-get considers a repository17:59
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norayri know...17:59
norayri will test whether it is a repo or not right now18:00
norayrby commenting out all other lines in sources.list18:00
valdynnorayr: the pool may contain any number of files not being referenced by any Packages file18:00
lcukgcc is available in the maemo tools and/or the maemo sdk repositories18:00
lcukeasiest if you have space is just add those repos and18:00
lcukapt get install build-essential18:01
* wazd_ 's cooking pancakes18:01
lcukmmmm wazd18:01
norayrit works!18:01
norayrit is a repo18:01
norayrlet me show:18:01
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norayrvaldyn: ok18:02
norayrlcuk: thank you18:02
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norayrlcuk: do you have any idea how that sources.list lines look like18:03
norayri swear i was searching for such a repo whole day18:03
lcukdeb fremantle/sdk free non-free18:03
lcukdeb fremantle/tools free non-free18:03
wazd_Some bastard have stolen my blender blades :(18:03
valdynnorayr: you have only activated the extras, i dont see that being your intention earlier, that always worked18:04
lcuknorayr, watch your available space on device tho18:04
norayrvaldyn: didn't catche the sense of your words. i have commented other lines in order to prove that repo working. though you suggested an idea that not all the packages in that repo is scanned and available in the package index18:05
lcukbuild -essential ages ago used to need this:18:05
lcukNeed to get 24.7MB of archives.18:05
lcukAfter this operation, 73.2MB of additional disk space will be used.18:05
lcukDo you want to continue [Y/n]? y18:05
norayrlcuk: yep. does that repos ok for diablo?18:05
lcukno, afaik you can just alter the fremantle bit to say diablo with same effect18:06
lcuki used to compile often on the n81018:06
norayrlcuk: besides, what if i mount /usr from a different disk. like mount -o bind /media/mmc2/usr /usr18:06
lcukthe only things i couldnt get working happily were autotools (for ./configure scripts) and dpkg_buildpackage, but all my ode ran with make files and worked happily18:06
norayrlcuk: no... i meant if i mount it from fstab18:07
lcuknorayr, dontask me about space and binding i havent the foggiest18:07
lcuki used to just start from a clean diablo and put the stuff i needed18:07
jophishhurrah! bash and gnu for user and root18:08
norayrok, i was wondering whether maemo will boot with a /usr on a separate partition18:08
norayri will try18:08
lcuknorayr, boot from sd18:08
lcukis the common way people get extra space18:08
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lcukand it also means they have a normal baseline bootable working maemo if your SD card goes titsup18:08
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lcuklol MohammadAG18:09
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norayrlcuk: Perfect, i am installing gcc currently18:11
norayrthank you very much18:11
lcukmore than welcome, good luck18:11
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norayrlcuk: booting from SD have to be implemented as described here?
norayroh, not for use on 43-7 or above...18:21
lcuknorayr, outlines the steps a little cleaner i think, but its still something to only undertake if you are comfortable18:23
lcuki never really managed it cos i was happy in default diabloe and managed to have enough space for what i needed18:23
lcuktho i did store my code on an ext formatted sd card18:24
lcukso it had execute bits18:24
DocScrutinizer(-11h, mdbus)  I just learnt there's mdbus2 in extras-devel18:25
SpeedEvilWhat do you hope it will do for you?18:25
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SpeedEvilDoes it automatically order the perfect cheeseburger?18:25
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norayrlcuk: thank you18:26
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: me??18:26
* SpeedEvil was wondering what mdbus2 did.18:27
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: use dbus introspection to do even tab completion for pathnames in interactive mode18:27
lbtyou know... having a diskless frontend shutdown halfway through a dist-upgrade is a PITA... especially when it's upgrading portmap at the time...18:29
lcukwow lbt that sux18:29
* lbt looks daggers at mrs lbt...18:30
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* lbt looks for a "do not turn this machine off" screensaver18:30
lcukme n tracy had a fun time getting to cinema last niht18:30
Stskeepslbt: chroot the frontend?18:30
lcukpostit note18:31
Stskeeps(diskless usually means there's a rootfs somewhere)18:31
lbtStskeeps: am getting there... but then it starts trying to run portmap on the nfs server....18:31
lbtchrooted portmap18:31
* lbt sobs18:31
Stskeepslbt: ah, use the tricks we use in mer for temporarily disabling invoke-rc.d and such18:31
lbttbh I'm mostly there now18:31
lbtwhich is why I'm in irc....18:32
lbtstress relief :D18:32
* SpeedEvil relieves lbts stress.18:32
lbtah yes, the old debianutils/passwd conflict....18:32
* lbt edges away from SpeedEvil....18:32
* SpeedEvil puts down the oxy-acetylene torch and waits for lbt to cool from a dull red.18:32
lbt<pssst> ouch18:33
lbtno, I still burn18:33
SpeedEvilIt's OK - annealing is a well-mnown method of stress reduction.18:33
lbt<grin> does that mean I need a cold shower?18:33
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* MohammadAG thinks his graphics card's busted18:39
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KhertanHi !18:41
jophishHowdy Khertan18:42
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Khertani ve tryed to play a bit with gstreamer to do a live voice modification18:43
Khertanbut the18:43
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Khertanproblem is that the mic is too near to the speaker18:43
Khertanso i got a nice high sound18:44
Khertanlarsen effect18:44
lcukbecause ytou are playing back what you are recording18:44
Khertanis there a way to avoid that ?18:44
Khertanan idea ?18:44
Khertanyep clearly lcuk18:44
Khertani know that it can be done as there is an application for that on iphone18:45
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lcukyou could see if you could use the mic on the headphones whilst still outputingfrom the speakers?18:45
lcukhow much delay does iphone have18:45
lcukcos you could buffer until silence then playback the words18:45
lcuk"hello khertan"     "HELLO KHERTAN"18:46
Khertani didnt notice any delay18:46
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Khertanit s live but the iphone didn t have stereo speaker18:46
lcukKhertan, im not sure if the default gstreamer input gives you just the sound from the total soundboard18:47
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lcukor if it just gives you the mic in18:47
Khertanah ... maybe that18:47
lcukyour feedback might be coming from another source than the speaker itself and hence why its more noticable18:47
Khertanbecause yep i use pulsesrc so not only the mic18:47
Khertanseems to be the reason18:48
Khertanthx for the advice18:48
lcuknp, hows everything comin for you18:48
Khertannow i need to see if can i catch mic only18:48
lcukyeah i know its possible18:48
lcukive got a test thing here which does it18:49
Khertana bit tired ... but everything is ok18:49
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lcuki saw you on tv a little while ago (well youtube of tv)18:49
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Khertanouch my god i was so bad on this cast18:50
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Khertan(too much wine)18:51
Khertanshame on me18:51
lcukthere is no such thing as too much wine18:51
Khertanthere is when there is camera18:51
* lcuk nods18:52
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Khertanhum ... can i got mic only with gst ?18:55
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Khertani didn t found how to specify it in pulsesrc18:55
wazd_Berp, can somebody shoot me please?) I've eaten too much pancakes :(18:57
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matthew-hmm, any1 using the google buzz ?19:04
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jophishmatthew-, Just another thing for me to keep track of. Plus I don't have any friends19:06
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Khertanbof a bit useless19:07
Khertangst-launch pulsesrc device='source.hw0' ! audioecho ! tee ! queue ! pulsesink19:07
KhertanYouHOU !19:07
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fnordian900on my n900, thesavin browser seems to be unresponsive, despite being restarted.19:08
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fnordian900is there a way to restart browserd with upstart or should i just kill it?19:09
pupnikhow to i get terminal out of fullscreen?19:09
pupniki need to paste into terminal19:10
fnordian900hit the fullscreen button again?19:10
pupnikthere is no fullscreen button.  i got rid of it19:10
pupnikreally just need to paste19:10
valdynpupnik: ctrl-backspace or somesuch19:11
valdynpupnik: to minimize the terminal19:11
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pupnikhow do i paste then?19:11
valdynpupnik: ctrl-c copy, ctrl-v paste19:11
pupniknot in term19:11
pupnikis funny19:12
valdynpupnik: you can go via saving the paste contents in a file19:12
fnordian900save it in a file and pipe it in19:13
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pupnikyeah i could use /exec cat tmpfile in irssi19:16
jacekowskiis anybody using jabber with n900?19:17
jacekowskii have some issues with it19:17
Shapeshifterdoes someone know if there's a "contacts" widget for the desktop which displays all contacts currently online in an IM app?19:17
jacekowskiand i'm not sure if it's server problem or n900 problem19:17
jacekowskibasicaly jabber works fine19:18
jacekowskiand then it stops working ( i'm still online on n900 ) and i get all messages after some delay19:18
jacekowskibut nobody can call me on jabber19:18
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matthew-is there a way of blocking numbers ?19:27
matthew-incoming ?19:28
tank-manisnt that a feature from the phone company side?19:29
nid0some phones provide the ability to do so as well19:29
nid0the n900 isnt one of them, no nokias do afaik19:29
matthew-Ah ok nid019:30
matthew-tank-man: maybe, ill send them an email.19:30
jophishmatthew-, They will probably just block it19:31
tank-manif (incomming call == blacklisted #) ignore, theres the psuedo code :)19:31
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Shapeshifteris openarena optified?19:32
valdynShapeshifter: would it be possible to install it otherwise?19:32
Shapeshiftervaldyn: ^^ right.19:33
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valdynjacekowski: try on a different network connection?19:34
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jacekowskivaldyn: it works fine for most of time19:38
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jacekowskivaldyn: and PSI on same connection works fine19:38
jacekowskiso it's something between ejabberd and n90019:39
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valdynjacekowski: not necessarily19:39
* lcuk throws a paper plane @ pupnik 19:40
jacekowskibecause i can make a call19:41
jacekowskiboth ways19:41
jacekowskithen i leave n900 for a while19:41
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valdynjacekowski: you dont know if some router is respecting keepalive timeout as it should19:43
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SpeedEvilask mr tcpdump19:43
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jacekowskiwhat's strange19:43
jacekowskithat when it's in that state19:44
valdynjacekowski: while the n900 cannot send to many keepalive packets since that would just drain battery significantly for no benefit for most people19:44
jacekowskii can send messages from n900 to world19:44
jacekowskibut i can't recieve any19:44
valdynjacekowski: use a different internet access point of any kind19:44
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jacekowskimaybe you are right19:55
jacekowskiit looks like my home wifi was a problem19:55
jacekowskiit works fine over 3g19:55
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valdynjacekowski: thats quite typical19:56
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Shapeshiftermh. openarena really hogs the keyboard20:08
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Shapeshifternow I can play OA in the multitasking overview20:08
Shapeshifterso I've seen this question time and time again, now I am asking it: how do I close open arena? xD20:08
Shapeshifterbtw that aimbot is cute20:09
Shapeshifteroh I found away20:10
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Stskeepsevening zerojayN90020:11
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* ioeee saluda o/20:11
zerojayN900hey there.20:12
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zerojayN900good work on 3d for Mer, btw.20:13
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Stskeepsta - it feels really fast :P20:14
Stskeepsnow to wonder wtf to use it for..20:14
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zerojayN900any py2deb gurus around?20:23
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*** woglinde has joined #maemo20:34 warning: 'aptitude::matching::pkg_const_matcher' has a field 'aptitude::matching::pkg_const_matcher::<anonymous>' whose type uses the anonymous namespace20:35
MohammadAG any idea what this means?20:35
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user_apparently xchat is not completely hildonized...20:47
timeless_mbpwhere's modest's bug tracker?20:48
timeless_mbpdo they use bugs.maemo?20:48
timeless_mbp doesn't mention it :(20:48
user_yeah, but maemo bugzilla is the only public place to report bugs so...20:50
SpeedEviluser_: no, it's not20:51
SpeedEviluser_: It lacks nice scrolling in the textbox.20:52
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SpeedEvilAnd does not properly support networks that have login requirements. It should - if it sees 'Type /quote pass...' - pop up a nice scrolly widget to select the number between 0 and 10000020:54
SpeedEvilSure it might take half an hour to login - but it's scrolly!20:54
ShadowJKIt doesn't?20:55
ShadowJKI thought /server hostname port password20:55
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SpeedEvilI was meaning stuff like undernet - you get a message saying '/quote pass foo' to login20:56
user_well, at least shift+arrow scrolls properly20:56
SpeedEvilwhat does it do?20:57
SpeedEvilI've been altering the default keymaps - I've got it to do pgup/down20:57
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ShadowJKhildonizing xchat would probably be painful anyway20:58
ShadowJKit doesn't use normal gtk widget  for the text20:58
ShadowJKbecause there are no ready widgets that can do it20:58
user_yeah, better use another codebase20:58
SpeedEvilI also wish xchat knew about blue as a meta20:58
ShadowJKxchat works fine for me anyway though20:59
lcukShadikka, xchat was already started by RST38h20:59
SpeedEvilIt shows up if you press it - inthe key binding page - but not as a meta20:59
ShadikkaThis is almost getting bothersome. ;)20:59
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SpeedEvilI'd like to bind blue-left/right to home/end forex21:00
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ShadowJKI discoverd the blue key isn't sticky in ovi maps21:01
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SpeedEvilIt isn't sticky for me when attempting to get the symbol page in xchat21:01
DocScrutinizerincrease the hot area for the scrollbar's arrows21:02
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SpeedEvilthat would work21:02
DocScrutinizeralas blue-r/l is up/down here :-(((21:03
DocScrutinizerwhat a shit21:03
SpeedEvilI like the english layout.21:04
Stskeepsi'm going to try to boot up maemo's base system (sortof) on virtualbox21:04
Stskeepsi wonder how badly it burns up21:04
SpeedEvilwell - international -= or whatever it is.21:04
DocScrutinizeranybody managed to get a spare keycaps mat?21:04
sheepbatvirtualbox does arm?21:04
Stskeepssheepbat: rebuilt stuff for x8621:04
sheepbatahh, okay21:04
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: the source I initially pointed to - tessco - are authorised dealers only. But they also appeared to have stocking htem at all21:04
DocScrutinizerno use in ordering 500 of those21:05
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: there's a finnish shop that sells them21:06
Shapeshifterto normal people21:06
ShapeshifterI'll try to dig up the url21:06
DocScrutinizerthey actually do?21:06
GeneralAntillesMan the Vancouver HD feed looks like crap.21:06
ShapeshifterN900 QWERTY KEYMAT ENGLISH 265740
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ShapeshifterI *think* they sell to normal people21:07
Shapeshifteralthough that page is utterly horrid21:08
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: thanks. yes it's horrid. That's why I hesitated to give it a try so far21:09
DocScrutinizer(also my poor Finsih skills)21:09
GeneralAntillesAbout voice dialing, what good open source software is available for something like that?21:09
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GeneralAntillesHrm, no wonder Nokia doesn't seem to want to do it.21:10
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: something that does xmpp might work. pidgin supports it now21:10
Shapeshifterat least for linux x8621:10
DocScrutinizerthey could port the symbian shit closedsource21:10
Shapeshifternot sure about arm21:10
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, probably easier to rewrite from scratch.21:10
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: or do you mean voice dialing over the cellular network?21:10
GeneralAntillesI've never really been interested in voice control, but I have to admit the iPhone does a very good job of it.21:10
DocScrutinizerN95 is brilliant21:11
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Shapeshifterahhh, voice *dialing*21:11
SpeedEvilI wish I could get both voice and OCR as good as I had on my PC in 1996 or so.21:11
DocScrutinizereven recognizes my last name though never tought about how it's spoken21:11
wazdRST38h: around?21:12
SpeedEvilRST38h: Is there a bugzilla for xchat?21:14
RST38hBut you are free to email me a bug report21:15
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: #xchat21:15
* SpeedEvil had meant to add something yesterday - but I forgot what it was.21:15
ptlis there a way to select more than one application to install at the same time in the application manager?21:16
SpeedEvilI mean the maemo 'port'.21:16
SpeedEvilptl: not that I've seen. Would be handy.21:16
SpeedEvil'intstall all'21:16
GeneralAntillesBada: it's our iPhone OS clone21:16
RST38h(and run the hell away before it blows up)21:17
RST38hGeneral: It is much funnier than that21:17
RST38hGeneral: Bada UI has been lifted from 3-4 different places, both iPhone and Maemo included21:17
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DocScrutinizerforget bada21:17
RST38hGeneral: But the programming APIs are modeled after Sybian :)21:17
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, and the whole damn brand was lifted from Mer. :P21:18
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, the whole ocean theme.21:18
GeneralAntillesKorean word for oceon21:19
* Stskeeps pats his check from samsung ;p21:19
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RST38hbut that is of course beside the point21:19
RST38hthe point is that NOTHING with Symbian-like APIs can be successful21:20
GeneralAntillesDid Peter have something going at MWC?21:20
jacekowskisymbian was successful21:20
GeneralAntillesSymbian is riding its inertia from 10 years ago.21:20
GeneralAntillesTimes have changed now.21:20
RST38hGeneral: Symbian development is just one huge cluster fuck21:21
* RST38h has no idea why koreans copied this particular programming model, but suspects they simply have done their research21:21
RST38hhave not (sorry)21:21
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derfPeople code what they know.21:23
derfAfter I learned Java, I made Java-like APIs until I got better.21:23
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derfMost people actually writing code are young, so they have shockingly little exposure to other people's code.21:24
lcukderf, dang21:25
RST38hderf: this is not coding, this is system design21:26
DocScrutinizerRST38h: (copying) as that's exactly the one thing they are extraordinary - clone things ;-)21:26
RST38hderf: one would expect people designing the system have some experience with multiple different systems and enough common sense to see what they ought and ought not use21:26
derfRST38h: Both you and I know how system design really gets done.21:26
zerojayAre /'s allowed in package Display Names?21:27
RST38hderf: Well, I know that it gets done differently by different people21:27
* RST38h has seen both good and bad examples21:27
Jaffazerojay: I believe so21:27
ShadowJKwhoah, my N900 went crazy21:27
valdynzerojay: why would you use / when it already has its own semantics?21:27
ShadowJKthe screen is just... going mostly grey21:28
zerojayvaldyn: Um... because it's a display name. :)21:28
lcukzerojay, whenever i see things like that i wonder just why you need them21:28
Jaffavaldyn: Because it's a name?21:28
lcukcant you cope without21:28
derfRST38h: Assuming there's someone with that kind of experience on the project at all.21:28
valdynzerojay: package names are also part of the package file21:28
zerojaylcuk: No, people would break down crying in the streets if I didn't.21:28
GeneralAntilleszerojay, what name?21:29
zerojayvaldyn: Congrats, I know that already.21:29
Jaffavaldyn: And / has no semantics in debian/control21:29
zerojayFucking forget it.21:29
mavhccheaper to hire 5 groups of cheap people to make 5 clones and wait for one to win out21:29
Jaffazerojay: It's fine. The 3G/2G/Dual Selection applet uses a couple of /s21:29
zerojayAnd we saw the bloodbath that apparently caused.21:30
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: filled out, and copied in, a few items21:31
GeneralAntillesJaffa, yeah, looking at it now.21:32
RST38hderf: Well, here we come to the specifics of national design: Koreans do not invent, they copy.21:33
RST38hderf: but, hell, they could have copied more wisely :)21:34
jacekowskiis anybody doing anything to run dalvik apps on maemo?21:37
Stskeepsjacekowski: there was a guy who got it working on ubuntu but never published it.21:38
Stskeepsjacekowski: cos he got ideological scruples, it seems like21:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Cool, thanks21:38
jacekowskiare dalvikvm sources avaliable?21:38
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* RST38h places a Nexus One on top of N900 and runs dalvik apps21:39
* MohammadAG gives RST38h a blender and asks him:21:40
MohammadAGDo they blend?21:40
RST38hOf course they do21:40
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: (xchat) a means to change charfont size via shortcut easily, that's be a nice feature I don't see any workaround for right now (like e.g. in xterm)21:55
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Articles locked in.22:01
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: that would be nice, yes22:05
* GeneralAntilles just tried to load
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paroneayeaStskeeps: yeah I saw, looks good22:51
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paroneayeamight be nice to have a simplified version of free / free with nonfree dependencies / nonfree22:52
Stskeepsmm, either way, it's something that can be built on22:53
Stskeepslooking forward to seeing if things are moving in the right direction in PR1.222:53
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paroneayeayes, indeed22:56
paroneayeaand thanks for your work on it :)22:56
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MohammadAGis there a dbus command to start/stop bluetooth23:12
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infobot"Night fever, night fever. You know how to do it!"23:15
DocScrutinizer~shut up23:16
infobotyes, master docscrutinizer23:16
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DocScrutinizerinfobot: good bot23:16
infobot:), DocScrutinizer23:16
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infobot:), woglinde_23:17
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ptlI am following the howto for irreco but I can only use 'commands' from remote controls that are registered in lircdb. How do I use irreco to 'train' a button, since I have the remote control?23:20
ptlMy remote control is not registered in lircdb!23:20
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DocScrutinizer51ptl: no way since N900 has no IR reeiver23:24
ptloh. :(23:24
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kamuihow stupid ws that decision23:25
DocScrutinizer51ptl: try a remote profile for a similar RC. maybe small variation in name or sth23:25
kamuiput only an ir tansmitter on a device23:25
kamuiespecially on a pda style device23:25
kamuiwhere you would assume a user would possibly use IR to send/recieve data23:25
DocScrutinizer51that's not at all a IrDA23:26
kamuiI can't think of a single situation other than a dedicated remote control where unidirection IR makes any sense23:26
DocScrutinizer51it's a mere custom IR TX23:26
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kamuiim not usually a whats the point kind of guy23:27
kamuibut really23:27
kamuiwho came up with that decision23:27
kamuiand what was its real purpose23:27
ptlDocScrutinizer51: I tried it, it's a small brand of electronics in Brazil named gradiente. It has 3 entries, none of them are a TV23:27
DocScrutinizer51don't ask *me*23:27
ptlkamui: it'd be much better if they put in a digital compass23:27
ptlinstead of the IR23:28
lcukdigital compass wont help you change tv channel23:28
kamuithe compas is a catchy little gimmick these days23:28
kamuiseems useless again23:28
kamuiI'd rather have had a full IrDA FIR device23:28
ptland pay more for it?23:28
kamuipay whta23:28
ptlspacewise too23:28
DocScrutinizer51ptl: if you find out which IR chip the RC is built upon' you'll probably find compatible RC profile23:28
kamuian extra 20 bucks?23:29
lcukkamui, most people dont seem to mind nowadays23:29
kamuiyea, I guess23:29
woglinde_jo lcuk23:29
lcuki havent seen much noise about its absense until now23:29
lcukbut people have been using it to control things23:29
lcukso \o/23:29
kamuiwhich to me seems real cool23:29
lcukhiya woglinde_23:29
GeneralAntilleskamui, it does have a receiver.23:29
GeneralAntillesAlthough I'm unsure if anything useful can be gotten out of it.23:30
lcukwoglinde_, whats happenin tonight then23:30
ptlit does have a receiver for that?23:30
lcukGeneralAntilles, could you also confirm for me please if our amazing n900 also includes a flux capacitor23:31
GeneralAntillesptl, the proximity sensor is just an IR light and receiver.23:31
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: wtf? the info regarding this detail seems to change weekly?!23:31
lcukother older devices have it and it would be useful for us23:31
woglinde_lcuk hm nothing23:31
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51, nah, the IR on top of the device is just CIR.23:31
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DocScrutinizer51I WANT THE FSCKNG NDA TO SIGN IT RIGHT NOW! gimme those nasty schematics!23:33
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, do you really? :P23:33
StskeepsDocScrutinizer51: nda causes personality split23:33
timeless_mbpnda's are bad for your sanity23:33
DocScrutinizer51no issue with just one more of those23:33
ptlwhen you remove something with application manager, does it remove the dependencies it installed automatically too?23:37
Proteousthat would suck if other programs had the same dependencies...23:37
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ptlaptitude does that23:38
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, someone posted L3&L4 manuals on tmo23:39
ShadowJKif that helps23:39
ptlit sucks more to have stuff that you don't use installed23:39
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: those don't have schematics though23:39
GeneralAntillesptl, I believe it does.23:40
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: thanks for dropping the notice anyway23:40
GeneralAntillesptl, I'm unclean on the exact setup, though.23:40
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: ptl, I'm unclear on the exact setup, though.23:40
MohammadAGseen them some time ago on nokiausers23:40
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, it had circuit diagram of the charging :P23:40
MohammadAGthey don't have the schematics, as someone said a reply23:41
DocScrutinizer51ooh actually?23:41
MohammadAGanyways i'm off23:41
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ShadowJKThe charging circuit has direct connection to make yellow on the LED :P23:41
matthew-my n900 survuved a drop from 1.5m23:42
Proteousonto a featherbed?23:42
satmdno moving parts23:42
matthew-screen on a corner of a marble block.23:42
matthew-when i was picking it up, i was sure it's dead.23:43
DocScrutinizer51matthew-: seems almost within specs23:43
matthew-and it was SO loud.23:43
matthew-DocScrutinizer51: Within specs?23:43
GeneralAntillesMy dev discount unit survived a 4' drop onto a brick road. It fixed the gap below the keyboard. :P23:43
ptlthat's because it regenerated, as does the majority of living beings23:43
DocScrutinizer51matthew-: drop test23:43
matthew-DocScrutinizer51: ah, ok ;-)23:43
satmdwell, fun fact most people ignore... the louder an accident, the more energie was diverted TO the sound, the less onto damage23:43
DocScrutinizer51part of standard PV23:44
satmdsound is energy, too23:44
matthew-satmd: yeah.23:44
sheepbatwell.. loudness given a fixed amount of initial energy23:44
matthew-satmd: and the heat wave..23:44
sheepbatbut if the percentage stays constant, louder sound means more energy overall23:44
Proteoussort of true for things with a large surface area I guess23:44
matthew-DocScrutinizer51: My e90 survived 2nd floor drop onto a brick road. :>23:45
sheepbatI could see landing flat on a surface being louder than soething else though23:45
sheepbathence clapping23:45
satmdheat 'wave', yeah :D23:45
satmdbut truly, bad accidents usually do NOT make much noise, loud accidents end relatively harmless23:46
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matthew-satmd: it created a month long heat wave in the area, yes :>23:46
matthew-:> nothing ;-)23:47
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ptltell me, is it true that you can videoconference via skype with the N900?23:49
ptlSaw a video with that23:50
ptlhow the youtube guy did that then?23:50
GeneralAntillesPR1.2 seems to have rumors to the effect of Skype video23:50
Kegetysthe mystical youtube guy can do anything23:50
ShadowJKptl, I think it was skype developers using an unreleased skype version23:51
ptloh, it's gtalk video23:51
ptlwhat about standard 3g video calling?23:51
ShadowJK3g video calling not supported23:52
GeneralAntillesI doubt we'll ever see that.23:52
ptlI'll test it as soon as I change my provider23:52
ShadowJKand we don't know what's coming if anything23:52
ptlbut you got a secondary camera23:52
ptlhow can it not be supported?23:52
ptlare the codecs proprietary or something?23:52
* GeneralAntilles doesn't know anybody who has ever even used 3G calling.23:52
ShadowJKAllegedly it works with gtalk if with some extra app..23:53
* lcuk blinks23:53
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ShadowJKThe front camera's video output was unusable until PR1.1 anyway, and it's not that great now either23:53
lcukGeneralAntilles, i have 3g near me most of the time23:53
lcukand in cambridge i get 3.5g23:54
GeneralAntillesEr, video calling.23:54
SpeedEvilThat reminds me.23:55
* SpeedEvil needs to masure the SNR of tfrontcam under an illumination of 100 lux.23:55
SpeedEvilTo see if it's 37dB23:55
SpeedEvilI suspect not even close.23:55
SpeedEvil(that's the specced sensitivitY)23:56
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Kegetysthe front surface material probably eats some of the light23:56
Chikuwhich developping stage is PR1.2 ? alpha beta RC?23:57
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GeneralAntillesChiku, freeze was a few days ago.23:57
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GeneralAntillesIf they decided to do another round of community testing that'll be when it hits RC.23:58
Chikuhow long usualy to get next stages?23:58
SpeedEvilKegetys: it's not going to be >50%23:58
GeneralAntillesProbably 4-8 weeks.23:58
Chikufor RC?23:59
GeneralAntillesChiku, realize, though, that information about Nokia's internal release process isn't widely available.23:59
jaycuseHey, I'm starting to write my first app for maemo and I had a question concerning gstreamer. I kind of have a question about gstreamer. Anyone here willing to help?23:59
GeneralAntillesChiku, until release.23:59
SpeedEvilI assume you can't comment on any aspects of the firmware - say if frontcam has changed since 1.1?23:59
SpeedEviljaycuse: shoot.23:59
jaycuseThanks :)23:59
ptljaycuse: #maemo-devel is better for you to get an answer23:59
Chikuok thx23:59

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