IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-02-13

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moo__dracflamloc: you can convert MIDIs to MP3s if you really want them00:00
dracflamlocyea too much effort00:00
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SpeedEvilWoo! Total Carnage! (all angry birds levels 3*'d)00:04
* RST38h goes to sleep happy00:05
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dracflamlocso where is that ini file00:05
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RST38h /usr/share/hildon-desktop00:06
pekujais there a manual way to turn portrait mode off?00:06
pekujaI'm pretty sure it's a bug. I'm getting everything in portrait mode, including things not designed to work in portrait mode00:07
pekujalike the desktop00:07
moo__pekuja: did ou try opening keyboard?00:07
pekujamoo__: yes00:07
moo__or is it more persistent...00:07
pekujait's persistent. that's why I'm asking00:08
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pekujaI guess I'll just reboot.00:09
fralspekuja: close kboard, start browser00:09
fralstwist and turn, open keyboard00:09
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pekujadidn't try starting browser00:09
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pekujaI'll try that the next time this happens00:09
pupnik_oh frals lives still00:12
pupnik_frals if you die soon what do you want to contribute?00:13
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fralshail the MMS specification00:14
kuriirinew fmms-version00:14
kuriiriwhat's new? =)00:14
fralsdepends which version your upgrading from, most likely bugfixes only.. if you already seen the improved ui ;o00:14
kuriiriok :)00:15
kuriirithe new ui is nice ;)00:15
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dracflamlochow many pixels wide are the launcher icons, anyone know?00:16
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dracflamlocwhats the best music player for n90000:30
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lcukRST38h, robogeisha?00:31
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GeneralAntilleszerojay, ping?00:32
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* lcuk thinks the new ui rocks too frals00:32
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Yo.00:35
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: With a quickness, man.00:35
GeneralAntilleszerojay, add a Display Name00:36
GeneralAntillesAdFlashBlock CSS00:36
LuciusMareso, i can snooze the alarm by turning it over, can i set it so it gets stopped after turning over?00:36
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: I'll do that when I get back from this Street Fighter 4 tournament that I'm about to leave for.00:37
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I'm packaging with py2deb, so I'm not sure if it supports those nice names.00:37
GeneralAntilleszerojay, lol00:37
zerojayNo, I plan on winning. :)00:37
GeneralAntilleszerojay, Street Fighter. Still fail. :D00:37
SpeedEvilYou just broke the first rule of street fighter club!00:38
GeneralAntilles"Do you know how to run mods in quake 3... I dropped the folder in .q3a/base3q but it doesn't appear in mods menu. Can you help me?"00:38
zerojayDunno what stone you've been living under, but it's bigger than ever.00:38
GeneralAntillesWHY does this person think I'm the man to contact?00:38
derfGeneralAntilles: Because you are SO awesome.00:39
GeneralAntillesderf, oh, right, that. ;)00:39
* SpeedEvil nods.00:39
SpeedEvilHe is so awesome.00:39
SpeedEvilThe light-meter pins every time he bends over.00:40
derfI know. It can be a terrible burden to bear.00:40
SpeedEvilAnd that's with it in scotland.00:40
derfBut you're awesome enough to bear it.00:40
derfThat's just how awesome you are.00:40
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LuciusMarenot without editing the code, it seems00:40
* SpeedEvil ponders getting up and trying to average main camera PNGs to pickup stars00:40
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derfHas someone ported panotools to the thing yet?00:41
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lcukSpeedEvil, the main camera takes jpgs00:41
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SpeedEvillcuk: I thought I got it to do png00:42
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SpeedEvil/usr/bin/gst-launch  v4l2camsrc device=/dev/video0  num-buffers=1 \!  video/x-raw-yuv,width=2592,height=1968  \!  ffmpegcolorspace \! pngenc\! filesink location=/home/user/MyDocs/capture/test$x$y.png00:43
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lcukSpeedEvil, thats different then00:44
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: summing up a 250 snapshots, taken with N900 in scripting mode mounted on a syncronus motor stand... that's be quite interesting thing to try :-D00:44
lcuki thought you meant the pictures just taken with the main cam00:45
lcukif its a full sync stand you can get proper direciton anyway00:45
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SpeedEvilabove script00:46
SpeedEvilthough I diddn't do summing on camera00:46
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:47
* lcuk just blocked and deleted all google bus contacts00:48
* lcuk wonders what aSIMULAwrk is doin in wrk00:48
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chombeeHey, trying to flash a Nokia 770 on Ubuntu 9.10, I'm getting "Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy" even after running modprobe -r cdc_phonet. Can anyone help?01:04
ceh900hum... anyone of you using this kernel-flasher-maemo kernel?01:04
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Stskeepschombee: grab static flasher and sudo01:05
chombeeAlso tried modprobe -r phonet and it says "FATAL: Module phonet is in use." but I don't know what's using it01:05
Stskeepsno phonet in 770 afaik01:05
chombeeYeah I am using sudo01:05
chombeeI'll try the statuc flasher01:05
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chombeeSame error message with the static flasher01:07
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Stskeepsshut device down completely, plug out battery, put in usb, put in battery, turn on01:09
chombeeOH, ran modprobe again and now it's working01:09
chombeewith the static flasher01:09
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chombeePutting OS2007HE on a 77001:10
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chombeeOk! Looking at a 2007 desktop. Thanks for the help01:13
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chombeeWhile I'm here, my OS2006 was saying that my memory card is corrupt. Can I use the 770 to reformat it?01:14
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chombeeOS2007HE is a _lot_ faster. I think ym OS2006 must have had problems, it was really slow and crashing a lot01:18
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t-tanceh900: yes, me01:29
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* GeneralAntilles chuckles at the Ask the Council thread.01:30
uhsfi don't understand how is that ovi thing related to maemo and the n900.01:31
SpeedEvilovi is the commercial 'app-store'01:31
fralsso err, how do i get my shellscript to be run as root, since setuid bit seems to be ignored on shellscripts01:32
uhsfis ovi supported by maemo/n900 or is it just for the n97 and alike01:32
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t-tanfrals: add it to sudo?01:32
pupnik_timeless_mbp: where do i get credit for demanding that browser pauses javascript?01:33
pwnguinuhsf: ovi supports n900. barely.01:33
uhsfovi maps for example. the maps application seems to run fine but lacks maps. do i have to buy maps at ovi store or are there other good maps available for free?01:33
pwnguinalso, ovi has no meaning01:33
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ShadowJK"Ovi" is too many things :)01:33
pwnguinits at best, a brand01:33
pwnguinovi store supports n90001:34
pupnik_pwnguin: your typing is mostly stupid01:34
ShadowJK"Ovi Maps" means 4 different things atleast... There's the web-based ovi maps, there's the old s60 ovi maps, the new s60 ovi maps with free turn by turn navigation, and maemo ovi maps which doesn't have turn by turn voice nav01:34
uhsfit's just because nokia spread ovi links all over the default maemo interface otherwise i wouldn't have cared much01:34
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pwnguinpupnik_: its not my fault ovi is the mobile .NET01:35
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uhsfShadowJK: what is your favorite among these 4?01:36
pupnik_pwnguin: you are a fart01:36
pwnguinpupnik: what did i do to incur this?01:37
uhsfi suppose new s60 are best but not supported on the n900?01:37
pupnik_you do nothing01:37
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ShadowJKuhsf, well the s60 one is actually useful for me to have in the car01:37
pwnguinuhsf: s60 is a different OS. no s6 emulators on n900 that i know of.01:38
pupnik_show me anything you do to help maemo01:38
ShadowJKKinda. Its choice of routes are excentric at best01:38
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lcukpupnik, even farts are useful01:38
pupnik_im not01:38
lcukyou dont want to explode01:39
pwnguinpupnik: what do you think i should be doing?01:39
pupnik_make something01:39
pwnguinits on my todo list01:40
pupnik_me too :)01:40
pupnik_i suck too01:40
pwnguinmaybe i should do some QA for the -devel apps i use01:40
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t-tanpwnguin: it's not the real pupnik. it's just a troll who wants to discredit pupnik. ignore him01:41
pwnguini can't tell anymore01:41
pupnik_i hate suckage01:41
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pwnguinmaybe i'll build a version of gdigicam that leaves the red light off while recording01:42
lcukpwnguin, cool01:42
pupnik_anything. do anything01:42
lcukwhenever i do n900-n900 recording i can see the light01:42
pwnguinits a trivial patch01:43
GeneralAntillesFCC is gonna come and kick your ass. :P01:43
ShadowJKpwnguin, call it "PervertCam", make it scan for WLANs, and if there are no WLANs within range that are in the user's list, assume the user is away from home, and if the user tries to use the PervertCam when away from home, make device go "awoooga awoooga! Pervert Alert!"01:43
pwnguinbut i haven't set up the build sandbox yet, so it'll take a bit of work01:44
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pwnguinits a bit disheartening to have a 'work through raeddit tutorial' todo when it's pretty clear the future is QT01:44
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ShadowJKwhat's raeddit?01:45
pwnguinits a reddit ap01:45
jacekowskirapid aplication development comes to mind01:45
pwnguinits in extras-something01:45
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pwnguint-tan: i cant tell the trolls anymore. the real marat mocked my photo of my literal first arduino project01:46
GeneralAntillesIt's the internet. We're all trolls.01:47
pwnguinits IRC. we have tools to solve that01:47
GeneralAntilles /muteall01:48
ShadowJKThe tools have been converted to padded mittens, courtesy of freenode :)01:48
GeneralAntillesI still need to review the new ircd info.01:48
pwnguinseriously though. right now im editing some audio from a LUG meeting01:49
t-tanGeneralAntilles: may I cite you in the future? :)01:49
pwnguinnone of it is probably maemo helpful though01:49
pwnguinunless wants to use django01:49
GeneralAntillest-tan, feel free.01:49
ptland about QT01:50
ptlshould I program for N900 using hildon (gtk) or QT?01:50
ptlis there such a thing as hildonized QT?01:50
GeneralAntillesIt's in the repos.01:50
t-tanresistance is futile. We're trolls.01:50
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I think it's probably a good time to start with Qt 4.6 if you don't have an existing codebase.01:51
ptltrolls, so you mean trolltech, i.e. qt01:51
GeneralAntillesPR1.2 is around the corner and it should be shipping official Qt 4.601:51
pwnguintheres actually going to be a pr1.2?01:51
GeneralAntillesI'm sorry, the trolls were assimilated. They're Nokians now.01:51
GeneralAntillespwnguin, and several more after according to reliable sources.01:51
ptland nice01:52
pwnguini hope it upgrades better than last time01:52
GeneralAntillespwnguin, you actually thought they were going to stop updating Maemo between now and Maemo 6 sometime at the end of this or beginning of next year?01:52
* GeneralAntilles has heard rumors of a PR2 and PR3, even.01:52
luke-jrptl: Qt01:52
pwnguinGeneralAntilles: im used to being abused and neglected by cellular providers. im american01:52
ptlluke-jr: that's two votes for QT now. :)01:52
luke-jrptl: it's objectively superior in every way :)01:53
luke-jrany GTK votes will be from fanboys01:53
GeneralAntilles^ troll01:53
ptlI know that, it's just that I feel it'd eat too much memory by having libraries that do the same thing in memory simultaneously01:53
ptlXlib, yes! with tcl/tk!01:54
ShadowJKptl, there are already some qt using things on your N90001:54
ShadowJKthough i dont know if it's anything open all the time01:54
pekujaGTK probably only makes sense if you need to use C01:54
ptlis there a qt way of doing a systray app?01:54
ptlfor maemo 501:54
pekujawhat's the QT license these days?01:54
ShadowJKheh, I was going to say that GTK seems much more inefficient.. but QT seems hugely bloated01:55
pekujawasn't it GPL at some point, with a paid-for commercial licensing option?01:55
pekujaor am I imagining that?01:55
t-tanis it true that Qt4.6 is much smaller due dropped Qt3 support?01:55
luke-jrShadowJK: Qt includes a variety of higher-level features that might be considered "bloat", but they're modular01:55
ptlLGPL 2.101:56
luke-jrt-tan: Qt3 support was never mandatory in the first place01:56
ptlwith a clause for exception01:56
ptlfor something that I don't understand very well01:56
luke-jrah, they added the exception?01:56
luke-jrptl: for C++ code, LGPL is effectively GPL if you use templates01:57
ptlit seems that you can incorporate header stuff into your program01:57
luke-jrwhich Qt does01:57
luke-jrlibstdc++ has the same exception01:57
ptldidn't know that01:57
ptlbut I don't plan to do proprietary stuff anyway01:57
ptlGPL is fine for me01:58
ShadowJKI'm not all that excited about the next maemo device anyway... it'll be Omap3 and probably 256M ram still? boring01:58
pwnguinShadowJK: if it solves /opt01:58
pwnguinthen what?01:58
ptlI just know that N900 is a dream come true. A cellphone that has a terminal application? That I can troubleshoot using shell commands?01:59
luke-jrShadowJK: seriously? that's confirmed?01:59
ptlthat's just f*cking unbelievable.01:59
luke-jrptl: ...01:59
ShadowJKluke-jr, I forget the details, but omap3 and multitouch01:59
pwnguinShadowJK: or USB OTG01:59
luke-jrShadowJK: IIRC, some OMAP3 has 512 MB RAM now01:59
pwnguinthere are certain things i can imagine adding01:59
pwnguinhardware wise01:59
ShadowJKI don't give a shit about OTG... but host mode would be nice01:59
pwnguinwhats the diff between otg and host mode01:59
ptlluke-jr: what? I'm not exaggerating. It has a few minor flaws and it is greatly usable. And it has a hell of flexibility.01:59
ptlnokia did get it.02:00
luke-jrptl: it's not a phone... and not the first of its kind02:00
ShadowJKBut if I wont be able to reliably tap on the right line of 10pt size text in xchat anymore I'll be annoyed02:00
ptlluke-jr: what was the first of its kind? openmoko?02:00
luke-jrptl: OpenMoko was the first free software phone02:00
ptlluke-jr: it's the first viable device of this kind with a major brand supporting it.02:00
luke-jrptl: ok02:00
uhsfShadowJK: i think the n900 can't do turn by turn navigation because it's not a real gps but only data sent to gsm antennas is that true?02:01
ptlopenmoko was maybe too idealistic02:01
ShadowJKuhsf, no it is not true02:01
ptlnot a real gps? it is02:01
ShadowJKuhsf, N900 has real gps02:01
jacekowskiuhsf: no it isn't02:01
jacekowskiuhsf: N900 has aGPS02:01
pwnguinopenmoko was too underfunded02:02
uhsfok ty02:02
jacekowskiluke-jr: you are wrong02:02
jacekowskiluke-jr: there was trolltech manufactured one02:02
luke-jrptl: OpenMoko just didn't work IIRC02:02
ml-mobileopenmoko worked, just not very well02:02
jacekowskiand openmoko was just a disaster02:02
ptlluke-jr: I have no experience with it, by a friend of mine said it had many bugs, even hardware bugsa02:02
pwnguinopenmoko was 2007's pandora02:03
jacekowski1st it was manufactured by somebody else than nokia02:03
luke-jrShadowJK: uhsf: what is a "real" GPS? all GPS has software somewhere; in the N900, it's in the phone02:03
ptleven the GSM signal was frequently lost02:03
ssvbShadowJK: OMAP3 supports 512MB of RAM just fine:
ssvbShadowJK: and I think I read somewhere that this is still not a limit, will try to dig the link now02:04
jacekowskissvb: it should support 4G02:04
pwnguinmultitouch might be nice for using the phone as a bluetooth game controller.02:04
ssvbjacekowski: are you sure?02:04
uhsfso the best option right now for gps is web based ovi maps because it features turn by turn navigation and it's free but i suppose these maps are not the most detailed02:05
ShadowJKssvb, I didn't mean to say that omap3 only supports 256M ram... I was trying to imply that it is my belief that nokia will not put any more than 256M in the next device :)02:05
jacekowskissvb: yes02:05
jacekowskissvb: ARM core can support it02:05
ShadowJKI didn't know ovi maps on the web had turn by turn navigation02:05
uhsfi wish the garmin gps app and maps were ported to maemo02:05
jacekowskissvb: and when i looked into docs omap3 has all 32 address lines02:05
* pwnguin was at garmin HQ today02:05
jacekowskiuhsf: i'm working on hacking tomtom02:06
jacekowskiuhsf: to run on n90002:06
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jacekowskibut my router is causing me lot of grief02:06
pwnguinthey even gave me pizza and told me how they've got 51 open positions02:06
jacekowskibecause it randomly stops forwarding packets between network nodes02:06
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jacekowskiand i'm pretty much sure it's illegal02:07
uhsfjacekowski: why not garmin it better than tom tom02:07
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jacekowskigarmin sucks02:08
uhsfgarmins already run linux02:08
jacekowskii've had both and tomtom is clearly superior product02:08
jacekowskitomtom runs linux02:08
ShadowJKI like tomtom... It doesn't suggest I should drive on roads that I wouldn't want to travel on even with snowmobile02:08
ShadowJK(like Ovi Maps on S60 does)02:08
ptlthe maemo select site for angry birds is out? All I get is a blank page02:08
ShadowJKIt's kinda cool that they have so detailed map data that little things like that are included, but it's pretty silly to suggest I drive on it :/02:09
jacekowskiand it was only company to opposed microsoft when they started doing that ugly FAT patent thing02:09
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ssvbShadowJK, jacekowski: OK, here they say the RAM limit is 1GB:
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ShadowJKLet's hope that someone manufactures such a RAM chip, and let's hope that Nokia uses it :)02:15
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jacekowski   SDRAM Controller (SDRC) 16, 32-bit Memory Controller With 16, 32-bit Memory Controller With02:16
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Corsacall packages available in extras should be available somewhere in right?02:16
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GeneralAntillesCorsac, assuming they're in user/*, yes.02:17
CorsacI can't find python-scapy (source scapy) which I've uploaded to extras-devel last week or so02:18
Corsacand which is available using apt-get02:18
luke-jrIf N910 has 1 GB RAM and is usable with free software, I'm getting it <.<02:19
GeneralAntillesCorsac, Downloads is only stuff in Extras02:19
GeneralAntillesNot stuff in -testing or -devel.02:19
Corsacoh ok02:19
ssvbjacekowski: your quote from this pdf is incomplete and ends at the most interesting part "... With 1G-Byte Total Address Space" (whatever it means)02:20
VDVsxCorsac, search here:
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jacekowskii thought i copied it02:20
jacekowskibut nvm02:20
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ShadowJKDoes I/O have to live in that 1G too?02:21
jacekowskiwell, it's only memory controller address space02:21
CorsacWarning: This package does not have the required bugtracker link specified!02:21
jacekowskiso i don't think so02:21
Corsacbugtracker for upstream or for packaging?02:21
ShadowJKpackaging I'd say02:22
ptlis this page appearing to you guys?
ptlall I get is a blank page02:24
ShadowJKme too02:25
luke-jrblank here02:25
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ptlI'll install it later then. Thanks02:26
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VDVsxCorsac, , and
Dantonichey when's Harmattan supposed to come out?02:39
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GeneralAntillesDantonic, Q4 2010 or Q1 2011 seem like reasonable dates.02:40
GeneralAntillesDantonic, the announced timeline for the SDK is very similar to Fremantle's.02:40
Dantonicah I see02:41
Dantonicso what was supposed to come out Q2 2010?02:41
GeneralAntillesBut no date for anything beyond SDK release has been announced.02:41
GeneralAntilles2H2010 != Q2 201002:41
Dantonicoh was it second half? 2010?02:41
Dantonicthought it was Q2 I've read Q2 in a few places02:42
GeneralAntillesIt's probably be misreported.02:42
DantonicI see02:42
pwnguindecember is in the 2nd half of 201002:42
Dantonicright :P02:42
GeneralAntillesAs reporters are wont to do.02:43
DantonicI'm assuming from some of Qgils latest posts there's a change that Maemo6 might come to the N900 in some form...02:43
GeneralAntillesI doubt very much that Nokia has anything even remotely resembling a firmish date at this point, so. ;)02:43
GeneralAntillesDantonic, who the hell knows.02:43
GeneralAntillesDantonic, Nokia may not even really be sure on that one.02:43
Dantonicya I know I'm hoping...02:43
DantonicI've just come upon my first real disappointment with the N900..02:44
GeneralAntillesThe only thing resembling a straightforward answer I've seen on that subject was from Jose-Luis at BCN.02:44
DantonicOgg support02:44
asj_Dantonic: what's wrong with it?02:44
GeneralAntillesand that was essentially: No multitouch, no Maemo 6 support.02:44
glyphSpeaking of updates; pr1.2 is going to include qt4.6?02:44
Dantonicwell the ogg-support package allow the playing of vorbis files, but its not efficient... whatever codec they're using02:45
asj_glyph: I suspect it will02:45
Dantonichigh cpu usage02:45
glyphasj_: Oh, it's official02:45
Dantonicdrains battery02:45
asj_glyph: don't know02:45
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glyphIt wasn't really a question, the question is more like "how can I stop this idiocy from breaking my device" :)02:45
asj_glyph: ah there's where I read it then02:45
DantonicI spent hours ripping and converting my CD collection, then moved it to the N900... and found out this...02:46
glyphall of my qt4.5 apps will stop working, and my rootfs will instantly fill up with the update as a C++ compiler pukes out 20MB of useless garbage there :(02:46
luke-jrglyph: what?02:46
GeneralAntillesglyph, I don't think it's necessarily hard yet, but it looks likely.02:47
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Dantonicis anyone working on a good mplayer frontend?02:47
glyphluke-jr: I currently have 14MB free on my rootfs.  Any idea how I could free up more space in preparation for this update?  Qt _by itself_ is like 25MB02:48
luke-jrglyph: replaces...02:48
GeneralAntillesglyph, rootfs is compressed, so it'll be less than that.02:48
luke-jr(and I see no reason apt should put its temporary files on rootfs)02:48
Dantonic<GeneralAntilles> and that was essentially: No multitouch, no Maemo 6 support02:48
GeneralAntillesQt 4.5 is optified, so.02:48
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GeneralAntillesluke-jr, just symlink.02:49
DantonicDOes that have to do with capcitive vs resistive?02:49
GeneralAntillesDantonic, yes.02:49
DantonicI just read somewhere that maemo6 should support both02:49
GeneralAntillesDantonic, although there's a multitouch resistive tech they could use. . . . (Stantum)02:49
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ShadowJKI don't think qt4.5 is optified?02:50
ShadowJKThe one preinstalled on N900 I mean02:51
GeneralAntillesThere's no pre-installed Qt 4.502:51
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GeneralAntillesThe first Qt that'll be pre-installed should be shipping with Qt 4.6 and, yes, that'll be on rootfs.02:51
GeneralAntillesThe Qt from Ovi Store may not be optified.02:52
uhsfhow is the "stop other apps using sound when receiving a call" implemented in maemo?02:52
ShadowJKIf I try uninstall libqt4-gui, mp-fremantle-generic-pr will also be uninstalled02:52
uhsfwill every media player automatically stop when receiving a call?02:52
glyphuhsf: just guessing here, but I would say pulseaudio02:53
ShadowJKapt-cache depends mp-fremantle-generic-pr|grep qt02:53
uhsfdoes mpd mutes when receiving call? mplayer?02:54
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, there's a pre-installed Qt on rootfs (4.5)02:54
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, with PR1.1?02:54
uhsfi really have lots of questions brain storming about how i'm gonna use my n90002:54
VDVsxand 4.6 will be there too02:54
GeneralAntillesAh, right, right.02:54
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* GeneralAntilles is recalling now.02:54
* GeneralAntilles blames the good wine.02:55
Dantonicmplayer cannot be used in the default media player can it?02:55
glyphwait, there's an optified *and* a non-optified 4.5?02:55
VDVsxthere's some sync stuff that depends on Qt, nothing more02:55
VDVsxcan recall the name of the app/feature02:55
glyphVDVsx: thanks!02:55
glyphThat indicates that I can happily continue ignoring qt for the time being :)02:56
ShadowJKthe exchange support02:56
VDVsxglyph, 4.5 is not optified, current version of 4.6 is02:56
ShadowJKand then there are some extra qt libraries, and newer qt libraries, and you can never be sure when installing software depending on qt whether your rootfs is going to cry or not, so I don't install any02:56
VDVsxShadowJK, yeah, that's it02:56
VDVsxglyph, from a developer POV you shouldn't ignore Qt, for a user POV for now you can :)02:58
glyphVDVsx: well, I bought an n900 so I could write pygtk apps02:58
glyphVDVsx: I am well aware that nokia is trying to ruin that for us ;)02:59
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glyphI doubt I'm going to be developing more than hacks for my own personal use, so even in the future of maemo 6 I'm sure the community gtk support will be good enough02:59
glyphcertainly better than the other phones that run gtk ;-)03:00
ptlis pyqt more difficult than pygtk?03:00
VDVsxmy background is also GTK+ and I love Gnome, but I've to admit that Qt is far ahead03:00
glyphptl: lots of people have different opinions about that.  nokia's official opinion is that qt is better :)03:01
glyphmy opinion does not happen to agree with that03:01
VDVsxglyph, the future will tell :)03:01
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luke-jrGNOME 3 might be usable if it were Qt based :)03:01
ptlwhy would gtk be better, since it does not strictly follow object-oriented programming and has less features?03:02
ptlnot flaming03:02
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ptlI really want to know03:02
luke-jrptl: it isn't.03:02
VDVsxluke-jr, did you saw Gnome 3 plans ?03:02
VDVsxjavascript :D03:02
ShadowJKIt feels much lighter in terms of memory pressure than qt :/03:02
luke-jrVDVsx: fail03:02
ShadowJKBut that's probably because most QT software I've seen is actually KDE :\03:02
* VDVsx will stick with gnome 2.xx :D03:02
* GeneralAntilles throws a "see" at VDVsx.03:02
glyphptl: it's faster, smaller, it has a stable ABI (in other words it's possible to write applications you don't have to recompile for every minor update), it is more robust (the average pygtk program will emit some warnings, but the average pyqt program will segfault)03:02
luke-jrglyph: Qt's ABI is stable, n00b03:03
ShadowJKIf it really is faster, that's scary, because GTK does alot of braindead stuff like redraw a widget 6 times in a row for no apparent reason03:03
* ShadowJK used to have a computer slow enough to see the braindamage03:03
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glyphShadowJK: Yep!  qt will redraw that same widget 30 times ;-)03:03
luke-jrQt is faster too, by far03:03
ShadowJKI heard QT caches Atoms so it's faster over network atleast03:04
luke-jrsomeone once modified Qt to use glib's event loop. it was too slow to use03:04
glyphluke-jr: I'm familiar with that effort, but it wasn't really a problem with either qt or glib; the effort itself was kind of broken03:04
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luke-jrglyph: regardless, the last time I tried GNOME it was too slow to use period03:05
ShadowJKI was an afterstep user until 2000, Gnome user until 2004 or so, whenever the great gnomish feature purge happened, and KDE user until KDE4 when it became unusably slow, had text corruption in the terminal, and crashed far too often :/03:05
VDVsxluke-jr, I can say the same about KDE :D03:05
jacekowskii was KDE user for long time03:05
glyphluke-jr: everyone's experiences are different, but the last time I tried KDE, it crashed five or six times an hour03:05
luke-jrShadowJK: KDE 4 isn't unusably slow if you disable compositing03:05
jacekowskii've never been using gnome03:05
ShadowJKand now I'm using xfce. It leaks a gigabyte of RAM a month, but it's tolerable and hasn't pushed me to switch again03:05
glyphI seriously don't understand how anyone can use it03:05
jacekowskior gtk based apps03:05
luke-jrglyph: sounds like an alpha release03:06
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glyphlucas: no, it was a release well past 4.003:06
ShadowJKluke-jr, it was disabled. Not that it made any difference in speed03:06
luke-jranyhow, if you want to try Qt, install Arora or Psi03:06
glyphluke-jr: what are those?03:06
VDVsxbrowser and IM03:06
luke-jrArora is a Qt-only browser03:06
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luke-jrPsi is IM03:06
ptlThis is good for Linux. The fact that major parts of the system might remain broken for a while (gnome with the features purge, KDE with KDE4 unusability) because you can (temporarily) switch03:06
ptlthat was the same with me03:06
ptlI used gnome for a few years. Switched to KDE. Then switched back to gnome03:07
glyphptl: you know what would be better for linux03:07
glyphptl: if people stop breaking shit all the time :)03:07
ptlI have no real preference, though03:07
glyphI am glad that I find myself using a mac during the HAL-removal and pulseaudio shitstorms03:07
ptlglyph: no, I think it's positive, because it allows room for refactoring03:07
glyphptl: "refactoring", *by definition*, does not break anything03:08
glyphptl: I hate it when people use that term to mean "breaking lots of shit"03:08
ShadowJKOh I tried to switch to gnome too after KDE4 stabbed me, but the feature purge damage was still too serious to get a usable desktop :)03:08
VDVsxthe problem here is that people keep mixing Qt with KDE, Qt is very stable can't say the same about KDE (I've to give another try ) :D03:08
ptlthis is a different kind of refactoring then. A kind of refactoring that revolutionizes everything, and has to fix all kinds of bugs again. :)03:08
glyphVDVsx: I realize that.  But, c.f. the news post I just put up: Qt still has no stable ABI, and still segfaults by default if you forget to intitialize the QApplication and the QContext and the QBullshitIDontCareAbout before making a window :)03:09
glyphptl: Yes, that kind of "refactoring" is called "shipping terrible software"03:09
ptlbut why do you fail to initialize such stuff?03:09
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GeneralAntillesI love not having to deal with most of this stuff on OS X. :P03:10
glyphptl: because I want to type 'w = Window();; main()' and get a basic application going, because that's all my application does03:10
ptlglyph: I think that in practice things don't work that way... Every new code is broken in some way03:10
glyphptl: the five other things I need to bootstrap a qt app are totally irrelevant to me03:10
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glyphplus, I am a Python programmer.  I am spoiled.  I call a function with the wrong arguments, or at the wrong time, I expect to get an exception03:11
glyphnot a SIGABORT or a bus error03:11
ptlGeneralAntilles: I love not being tied to that Jobs guy that tries to cut all my digital civil freedoms and rights! :)03:11
glyphthe upshot of this is that I can write GTK applications "live", just evaluating code as I go to experiment, but I can't experiment in pyqt, because every tiny misstep requires me to crash and restart03:12
ptlglyph: ok, that's fair03:12
ptlgot your point03:12
ptlyou're right in that matter03:12
VDVsxis pyqt that bad ? I doubt that, but never used03:13
glyphptl: also, my *personal* experience of qt applications reflects this design: minor programming errors in GTK applications tend to emit warnings or produce ugliness, whereas programming errors in QT applications result in crashes and core dumps03:13
luke-jrglyph: Qt's ABI is and has always been stable, and segfaults on failure are a property of the language, not the interface03:13
GeneralAntillesptl, meh, Mobile Mac OS X != Mac OS X03:13
ptlGeneralAntilles: what about iPad? Is it mobile?03:13
luke-jrglyph: don't blame Qt for PyQt's screwups03:14
GeneralAntillesptl, it's Mobile Mac OS X.03:14
GeneralAntillesptl, which is what makes it so depressingly hilarious.03:14
ptlif Mac OS X does not have the same locking mechanisms as the mobile Mac OS X builds, that's just because users have been very vocal about this03:15
ptlthat's what I don't like03:15
ptlif the pressure goes down on Apple, the features and freedom also go down03:15
ptlyou have to keep pressuring them otherwise they'll force you to use their devices like they want it and that's final.03:15
luke-jrglyph: if an application is compiled with Qt 4.0.0, it will still run against Qt 4.6.003:15
glyphluke-jr: I have seen places where that is not true, but then, I have also seen gtk applications fail to run, so I suppose I will believe you and hold hope for the future :)03:16
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ptlI can't 'be in peace' with apple because of this, GeneralAntilles03:16
ptlit's like dealing with an enemy03:17
luke-jrglyph: it is true for things like KDE themes that screw with internal structures instead of sticking with the API03:17
VDVsxseriously having using GTK+ (C) and Qt (C++), IMHO Qt's design/features and code simplicity are much more sane and powerful than GTK+ there's a bit difference03:17
VDVsxand as I said I love gnome :D03:17
ptlyou don't know whether they'll stab you if your turn your back to them03:17
GeneralAntillesptl, the whole Apple Computer to Apple, Inc. think summarizes my problems with the company pretty well.03:17
luke-jrptl: Apple has always been an enemy :P03:17
GeneralAntillesptl, as a long time Mac OS user and a former Newton user the iPad is particularly depressing for the what might've been's.03:18
ds3GA: were you hoping it would be Newton, Phase 2?03:18
GeneralAntillesds3, well, I wasn't particularly optimistic about the possibility.03:20
GeneralAntillesds3, but Newton technologies combined with OS X's PC-grade level of openness (not the FSF definition) does give me warm fuzzy feelings.03:20
GeneralAntillesAlthough I think Maemo's use-case fits my needs better these days.03:21
ds3I find the iPad to be too big03:21
GeneralAntillesMe too.03:21
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ds3I don't even want laptops that big03:21
GeneralAntilles~5-6" screen is closer to the right size03:21
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay03:21
GeneralAntillesinfobot, forget 5-6"03:22
infobotGeneralAntilles: i didn't have anything called '5-6"' to forget03:22
GeneralAntillesinfobot, forget 5-603:22
infoboti didn't have anything called '5-6' to forget, GeneralAntilles03:22
GeneralAntillesinfobot, forget 503:22
infobotGeneralAntilles: i forgot 503:22
GeneralAntillesds3, I like my Mini 9 for a lot of reasons.03:22
GeneralAntillesds3, but the itty-bitty keyboard pisses off hands that are used to buckling spring. ;)03:22
ptlI don't really understand iPad03:23
ds3GA: how's the build quality on the Mini 9?03:23
ptlI thought it would be something like an ebook reader03:23
GeneralAntillesds3, about Dell average.03:23
luke-jrinfobot: forget 5-6" screen03:23
infobotluke-jr: i forgot 5-6" screen03:23
GeneralAntillesds3, it aint a Macbook Pro but it's reasonable enough.03:23
ptlbut it wastes battery by having such a big bright screen.03:23
ds3so probally disappointing03:23
GeneralAntillesds3, I think it benefits a lot from being small.03:23
GeneralAntillesds3, less room to flex, etc.03:23
ptlalso, it could be a device for, say, going to classes and writing down stuff.03:23
GeneralAntillesIt's also fairly thick03:23
ptlbut the lack of connectivity spoils that.03:23
GeneralAntillesBasically, it's plastic. ;)03:24
ds3GA: I am still very steamed at the eeePC falling apart right before my eyes03:24
ptlby connectivity I mean compatibility with other devices/computers03:24
ds3and no TS03:24
GeneralAntillesds3, build quality feels better than the Eee.03:24
ptlI still can't get a good use case for the iPad03:24
ds3if dell did a TS, it might have moved it higher up03:24
ds3GA: how long have you had it?03:24
GeneralAntillesds3, it feels pretty solid in the hands.03:24
GeneralAntillesBut I really don't abuse my electronics at all.03:24
GeneralAntillesHrm, about a year now?03:24
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GeneralAntillesIt doesn't get a ton of use, though.03:25
ds3maybe the duty cycle on these "netbooks" are pretty low then03:25
ShadowJKI noticed with the smartq7 that it's not any more portable than a netbook, so I might just have gotten a netbook instead03:25
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, yeah, if it's not pocketable. . . .03:26
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ds3for pocketable and x86, aren't the WiBrain's and maybe the OQO2 the only options?03:27
ptldisgusting question. What is you guys opinion about WinMobile?03:28
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, oh that's not the issue03:28
ShadowJKIt's like one of those books that are too big to read in bed03:29
ds3ptl: epitome of unusability? :D03:29
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ShadowJKYou can bring it with you fine, but in practice you need a table to put it in for reading03:30
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I use my laptop in bed quite a lot.03:30
SpeedEvilShadowJK: screen almost at 180 degrees - with it in line with ribs03:30
SpeedEvilheld with pinky fingers.03:30
SpeedEvilOr alternatively, on one side.03:31
SpeedEvilSmall laptop - x60s03:31
ptlds3: it's just that I can't imagine Microsoft - even Microsoft - being so incompetent. I've been using a winmo device for two years now. I upgraded twice, had winmo 6.1, I have seen winmo 6.5 running, can't believe how it's so bad.03:31
ptlds3: Microsoft is a big corporation, but they are losing track very fast on this arena.03:31
luke-jrMicrosoft has always been incompetent03:31
luke-jrthe little they had good was always bought or stolen03:32
ptlI hate Microsoft. But I can't help feeling bad for this.03:32
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, hm, so you can support it on your body and the keyboard makes the screen elevated and not covered by your body/pajamas/cover, clever03:32
ptlthey should rate better than that.03:32
ptlit's pityful03:32
shdptl: i stopped years ago being amazed of incompetence.. competence can be amazing, though :)03:33
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ShadowJKNow I use my N810 mostly for reading and watching stuff when I'm too lazy to get out of bed03:33
ds3given all the options, I still prefer a the Treo03:33
ds3the N8xx browser is a PoS03:33
ShadowJKhm, dunno, the pages that are too painful in it generally annoy me too much on desktop too03:34
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shdmicrosoft main fault is bad OS architecture since MSDOS. that alienated many good developers03:34
ShadowJKand tear on N810 is faster than microb on N900 at browsing tmo...03:35
ds3the problem I see with the MS stuff is they insist on you using all your limbs for the UI03:35
ds3take outlook, you cannot read all your mail with just the keyboard (by extension buttons)03:35
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ptlwell, use a mouse with 8 buttons. I have such a mouse.03:38
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GeneralAntilles<3 MX Revolution03:39
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ds3the point is that means you have to move you hand around03:45
ds3OTH, take kmail... you can do most of you reading with just the keyboard03:45
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ds3claws is a bit irritating along those same lines03:46
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ShadowJKclaws on n810 is okay, the menu button is awesome04:02
ShadowJKkmail is kinda weird, I use it on desktop. Like, even if N810 is so much slower that I type the menu - m - m - d or something much faster than the menus appear, claws still gets it right04:02
ShadowJKbut kmail, if I type alt-m whatever faster than the menus appear, it takes some random keys out of the stream as a "normal" keyboard shortcut instead04:03
ds3you have the kb... I am trying to do it on an N80004:04
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ds3the Treo handled reading mail w/o using the keyboard keys just fine04:08
ShadowJKN900 is the first phone I've had that has handled my email :)04:09
ptlI didn't even try yet04:09
ptlmy gmail is so full of unread emails that I can only use it via web04:10
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ptlon the n900 scratchbox environment, modest behaved poorly with my gmail account04:10
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ptl 1 - 50 of 6526904:11
ShadowJKon my N900 it atleast gets them into folders04:12
ShadowJKI have my mailserver sort everything into folders04:12
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fralshehe, my ugly hack to setup connection in the background is kinda working04:17
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frals(and fetch mms and stuff)04:17
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crashanddietoutinette: hi?04:52
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jefferaiAnyone been having a problem with MfE failing to sync every time, recently?05:26
jefferaiIt used to work if I rebooted the n900...the first sync would work. Now none of them are05:26
ml-somethingmine still syncs regularly05:27
crashanddieA man breaks his wrist, and at the hospital he asks his doctor if he'll be able to play the piano after it heals05:28
crashanddieThe doctor looks at the man and smiles "Why of course, no problem at all"05:28
crashanddieThe patient's face is filled with joy, and he replies "That's bloody brilliant, because I couldn't play the piano before!!!"05:29
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DigitalPioneerShadowJK: you think I should dare to setup a IMAP account on N900, to that mailbox with 86.000 msgs? :-P05:33
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zerojayHow many of you also got that fucking moron PMing you on TMO about Quake 3 mods?05:36
DigitalPioneerGA for sure05:36
GeneralAntillesYes, me.05:36
GeneralAntillesI ignored it.05:36
zerojayYeah, I know he did.05:36
zerojayI got 4 copies of it.05:37
zerojayOr just really fucking impatient.05:37
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DigitalPioneeror an idiot05:37
GeneralAntillesOops, the cat found the catnip. . . .05:38
zerojayYeah, can't forget that one.05:38
DigitalPioneersmoked that once. Wasn't exactly a great experience ;-)05:39
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DigitalPioneeramazingly enough my cat ignored it completely. Was more a fan of cooked potatoe's peels - weird pet05:41
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crashanddiecrashanddie_: yo05:43
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crashanddie_DigitalPioneer: I'm switching to a new IRC client05:45
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crashanddie_just testing guys, don't worry06:12
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DigitalPioneerSysinfo for 'halley': Linux running KDE 4.3.1 (KDE 4.3.1) "release 6", CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual  CPU  T2330  @ 1.60GHz at 800 MHz (3199 bogomips), HD: 78/104GB, RAM: 1657/1737MB, 228 proc's, 28.9d up06:28
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crashanddie_DigitalPioneer: please don't do that in here06:29
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crashanddie_especially considering that's pretty crap sysinfo ;)06:30
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crashanddieone dead already at the olympics07:21
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Lumpio-Told you it was a bad idea07:22
crashanddieno you didn't07:22
Lumpio-Well I should've07:22
DigitalPioneeramazing lightshow07:24
crazyhorscrashanddie: apparently a few crashes prior to the fatality07:24
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crazyhors  /ignore #channel ALL -JOINS -PARTS -QUITS07:25
crazyhorssorry :)07:26
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uhsfi just visited that ovi website for the first time and i'm surprised that it's very well done07:47
DocScrutinizermediaplayer volumeslider nonfunctional (as in "no effect"), and not in sync to the systray vol-slider07:48
uhsfmy guess is that ovi must be very uninteresting to maemo fans07:48
DocScrutinizerahh, only when headset plugged in07:50
DocScrutinizernot reproduceable though. So maybe fix is not related to unplugging the headset07:52
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: yeah, noticed the same thing here08:03
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: volume slider is responsive when headphones plugged in, however volume levels seems inconsistent08:04
DocScrutinizerwell, the mediaplayer one had no effect whatsoever here, except sliding nicely from right to left and back08:06
DocScrutinizerdarn, forgot the volume rocker button08:08
DocScrutinizerand - my favourite :-( - now everything back to normal and no idea how to trigger it again08:10
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DocScrutinizerwell, maybe it's been the IRC notification via play-sound that messed it up08:13
DocScrutinizerI'll continue to poke it later08:14
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ProteousI was happy when I realized that my n900 kept different volume presets for headphone and non headphone use08:21
Proteouswhen I plug my headphones in it remembered the volume level that I used last time I had the headphones in08:22
Proteouswhen I unplug them it goes back to what it was08:22
Proteouscould be annoying in some situations, but for my usage it is very nice08:22
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crashanddieI added the headphones daemon08:23
crashanddiethe one that pauses the media player upon disconnection of the headphones08:23
Proteousthat's nifty08:23
DocScrutinizerProteous: yup, that's how it is handled normally08:24
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crashanddieProteous: it's in extars08:25
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ProteousThe n97 just puts this big thing covering you screen that stays there for 3 seconds and locks you out from doing anything when you plug or unplug your headphones08:25
Proteousreally? you don't say08:25
Ken-YoungThat's handy if your deaf.08:26
Proteousgod I hate the symbian s60v5 notifications that lock the screen08:26
Proteouswell, it's probably more like 2 seconds, but god it's a long 2 seconds08:27
asj_Proteous: don't worry, nokia will fix maemo soon08:27
ProteousI was singing praises of maemo, it's s60v5 that I hate :)08:28
Proteouser, symbian s60 that is08:29
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* DocScrutinizer facepalms08:32
DocScrutinizerI stated FM-receiver app :-S08:32
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Proteousif only we could harness the facepalm energy for the good of the world08:32
DocScrutinizerstarted*  probably that brole the volslider08:33
Proteousit does08:33
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Proteouson sybian s60v5 it would bring up a screen locking dialog box that would warn you that you can't adjust the volume when the fm-transmitter is on, then make you wait an eternity till you can use your phone again08:34
DocScrutinizerreceiver though08:34
Proteouswhy would that make the volume not work08:35
DocScrutinizerit has  that ugly BT hack08:35
DocScrutinizerwhich probably messes up audio completely08:35
DocScrutinizerthere's even a popup on app launch that says "bla Bluetooth blub mumble" just short enough you notice you haven't enough time to read it :-P08:37
DocScrutinizernot like S60 XP08:38
uhsfhow to customize the applications icons page?08:38
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Proteousuhsf: there is some stuff in this mod your n900 thread on
Proteoussome cool stuff on this page in that thread:
crashanddieffs, I'm downloading at 0.2kbps08:43
crashanddiehow can a hotel live on that?08:43
Proteousif you are in a hotel... in space....08:44
crashanddieProteous: I think it's fair to assume that I'm *not* in a hotel in space08:44
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ifreqcrashanddie: depends on the drugs08:45
crashanddieifreq: again, fair to assume I'm not on any drugs08:48
ifreqlets hope so08:48
crashanddieifreq: I'm sane enough that I'd realise if I were on drugs or not08:48
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ifreqwe can only pray for that crashanddie08:49
ifreqgood morning btw.08:49
crashanddieor you could start shutting the hell up :)08:49
* crashanddie facepalms08:50
Myrtticrashanddie: have you removed the banforward yet?08:50
crashanddiethe first download at 20kbps is corrupted08:50
crashanddieMyrtti: yeah08:50
crashanddieMyrtti: also switched to a more decent irc client08:50
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crashanddieI think it's time to do some cleanup08:51
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crashanddieMyrtti: thanks for opening my eyes and getting me on a proper IRC client again08:52
crashanddiecan't believe I actually lived without /alias for all this time08:52
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Mouser-Hi, everyone.  I have what should be a simple question.  Apt on my N810 isn't successfully refreshing packages due to a depenency issue with gizmo-installer (can't parse).  I'd like to fix this, but don't know where to start.  The terminal output is here:
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crashanddieMouser-: you should have a status-old file. Make a backup of your current status file (mv /var/lib/dpkg/status /mv/lib/dpkg/status.bak) and use the old status file (cp /var/dpkg/status-old /var/dpkg/status)09:07
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mouser-Hi, everyone.  I have what should be a simple question.  Apt on my N810 isn't successfully refreshing packages due to a depenency issue with gizmo-installer (can't parse).  I'd like to fix this, but don't know where to start.  The terminal output is here:
mouser-I was disconnected before.  Due to this error, I can't install, update, or uninstall any program.09:12
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crashanddieMouser-: you should have a status-old file. Make a backup of your current status file (mv /var/lib/dpkg/status /mv/lib/dpkg/status.bak) and use the old status file (cp /var/dpkg/status-old /var/dpkg/status)09:13
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mouser-_crashanddie: thanks.  I don't seem to have either of those files, though.09:21
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crashanddiemouser-: google it, this issue has been covered quite a few times on Debian09:23
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mouser-crashanddie: I'll see what I can find.09:29
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wormsxullahi. i've been looking for a list of maemo-compatible devices on the web, but no there such a list somewhere?09:47
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keesjwormsxulla: look for what mer runs on10:00
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keesjonly smartq7 and smartq7 but I don't think they have a phone in them10:01
Stskeepssmartq5,q7,touchbook,wii, etc :P10:02
Stskeepsbut yeah, no phone10:02
wormsxullai'm looking for an internet tablet, not a "phone"10:02
wormsxullai want to have svg support, so android is out, windows mobile is blah, so i thought maemo was the only choice?10:03
wormsxullawhat about the new "dell mini 5", will it be able to run maemo?10:05
wormsxulla(sorry for the stupid questions, but this is a jungle)10:05
Stskeepsright, maemo primarily runs on nokia devices10:06
Stskeepsit may run in maemo variants (SDK based) on some omap3 devices10:07
Stskeepsthen there's Mer, which is community Maemo, or poor-mans maemo if you use a bad term, which is very portable10:07
wormsxullaomap3. i'll look for this, thanks10:07
wormsxullaoh, so mer is a maemo variant?10:07
Stskeepsit is another way of looking at the maemo platform10:08
Stskeepsbut keep in mind that sdk variants are not feature complete at all10:08
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wormsxullawhat features are missing, roughly? if you know that :)10:08
Stskeepswell we can start with connectivity daemons10:08
Stskeepsit is roughly comparable to running the SDK environment on a live device.10:09
* RST38h moos at Stskeeps10:09
Stskeepsmoo RST38h10:09
RST38hStskeeps: How is existance? =)10:09
StskeepsRST38h: waiting for coffee and playing with a new way of doing Mer10:09
wormsxullathis is getting complicated, "a new way of doing mer", which is already "another sort of maemo" ;)10:10
Stskeepswormsxulla: welcome to open source10:10
wormsxullaStskeeps: i'm familiar with open source, but more in the bigger hardware area :p10:11
Stskeepsif you stick by exact definitions there's no Maemo OS outside nokia devices10:11
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wormsxullait would be unconceivable to install maemo on other devices? is there a special reason?10:12
Stskeepswell, there's no blessed base port (yet). but what mer does is take the open components and ports them10:14
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wormsxullai've read somewhere (on wikipedia i think) that a part of maemo is not open source? is that right?10:15
Stskeepsright, check out
Stskeepsmer's goal is to be mostly open source with closed source blobs only on the HW side10:15
wormsxullaHW? hardware?10:16
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* wormsxulla hates acronyms10:16
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wormsxullathe n900 doesn't have an omap processor?10:21
wormsxulla(but the n810 has one?)10:21
Stskeepsit has a omap310:21
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crashanddiewormsxulla: get used to them, it's common in IT10:33
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crashanddiewormsxulla: WTMTLAIOI,S10:33
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crashanddiewormsxulla: (Way Too Many Three Letter Acronyms In Our Industry, Sadly)10:34
wormsxullacrashanddie: i do not believe in the commonness :p10:34
crashanddieinterestingly, TLA is a TLA10:34
crashanddiewormsxulla: FYI:
wormsxullawe're numbers, not letters! (oops ;) )10:34
wormsxullaah, another april's fool rfc :)10:35
crashanddiewormsxulla: or maybe you could try: hypertexttransferprotocol://tools.InternetEngineeringTaskForce.organisation/hypertextmarkuplanguage/requestforcomments5513 ?10:35
crashanddieIf I were on a court, I'd say game, set and match...10:36
wormsxullawhy not! how about a browser which recognizes natural language?10:36
wormsxullado people use the n-tablet as phones, really?10:38
Triztwhere is the fun with that?10:38
wormsxullaor are the internet tablets mostly used as internet thingies?10:38
TriztI use mine as a computer on which I can do calls10:39
crashanddiewormsxulla: yes10:40
crashanddiewormsxulla: I've used my n810 for quite a while as a skype phone, it had its own skype account etc. I still use the n900 as a skype phone mainly10:40
wormsxullathat means your isp allows this, which isn't the case in my country10:41
wormsxullacrashanddie: you're in the us?10:41
crashanddiewormsxulla: I travel for a living, I don't have "an isp"10:41
crashanddieI just happen to piggyback whichever wifi connection I happen to come across10:41
wormsxullanice job ;)10:41
crashanddieand sometimes I force luck by letting my macbook "guess" the wifi password ;)10:42
wormsxullait's not easy to find open wifi connections here these days10:42
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* wormsxulla sighs10:42
wormsxullaso netstumbler runs on maemo just fine?10:43
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wormsxulla(oh. you need a macbook too!)10:43
wormsxullais this problem with the battery that i read about still existing?10:44
wormsxullaon the nokia tablets?10:44
Triztyou could use aircrack-ng natively on the n90010:46
wormsxullai see :)10:47
wormsxulladoes it come in pink? ;)10:48
TriztI have to say I manage enough hours with my battery, I do have a spare in case I go somewhere where I can't charge my n90010:48
wormsxulladefine "enough hours"?10:49
Triztwormsxulla; take a look at if you don't want to have it in black10:49
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Triztwifi all the time I'm at home or at work, bluetooth when I'm walking to/back from work. I charge it when I go to bed, maybe read some at that time10:50
Triztso I would say I have like ~13h usage with spare on the battery10:51
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Triztbut of course it depends on how much you do10:51
wormsxullais there one of these stupid screen saver functions which turns the screen off when you don't use the device?10:51
wormsxullai would kill whoever invented this :p10:52
wormsxulla13h is good10:52
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Triztyes, but you can configure it, I have it on 2mins inactivity (of course it won't consider video playback as inactivity)10:52
Stskeepswormsxulla: it is good for battery usage10:52
TriztI hate screensavers on desktops, but on the n900 it's handy with the screen off10:54
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wormsxullafair enough10:54
Triztand adjusting the screen intensity helps to preserve the battery10:54
wormsxullaat which intensity do you have yours set?10:55
Triztsecond lowest10:55
wormsxullai always find that these screens are too bright10:55
wormsxullathe manufacturers seem to believe that bright == attractive! :p10:56
Ken-Youngwormsxulla, Wait 'til your an old coot like me.   I always find them too dim.10:56
TriztKen-Young; and too small?10:56
wormsxullaKen-Young: maybe you should do /nick Ken-old ;)10:57
Ken-YoungTrizt, Strangely, I still have very good vision about 8 inches in front of my face.   Terrible vision at all other distances without glasses.10:57
Trizt:) everything father away then 20cm is too far away anyway10:58
wormsxullai'm sure you could build one of these mini-projectors with a omap3 thing, and have the nokia's screen projected on a wall :)10:59
wormsxullathat would be cool10:59
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wormsxullahow do you recognize a genuine nokia n900 from a counterfeit?11:03
Stskeepsbooting it?11:03
doc|homethere are counterfeits?11:03
bob-Edrop test11:03
Triztwormsxulla; depends if it comes from the same factory or another one11:03
crashanddiedoc|home: aye11:03
Proteousone runs maemo one runs mean011:03
wormsxulladoc|home: yes11:03
crashanddiewormsxulla: there's a few big difference11:03
doc|homeman, I can't even get a real one!!11:03
wormsxullacrashanddie: which ones?11:03
crashanddiewormsxulla: the OS, for one11:04
doc|homenevermind get access to counterfeits11:04
wormsxulladoc|home: i see people offering n900 for really odd prices11:04
crashanddiewormsxulla: link?11:04
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bob-E£300 from nokia shop was bargain11:04
wormsxullacrashanddie: they are french small ads sites11:04
doc|home300 what?11:04
crashanddiewormsxulla: pas grave, envoie le lien quand meme11:05
wormsxullayeah, prices like 200 €11:05
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Triztwith subscription?11:05
bob-Esim free11:06
bob-Ethe way god intended11:06
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LantiziaMorning :)11:06
RST38h"...QLogic has sued archrival Emulex for posting a web video that shows an egg frying on a QLogic converged network adapter..."11:07
RST38hFlamewar, corporate sty;e11:07
Triztwe need more of those11:08
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JaffaMorning, all11:10
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* wormsxulla grrrrs11:14
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crashanddiewormsxulla: the descriptions show you that it's not a real person writing that... Or at least, their french is so bad it's just laughable11:17
wormsxullacrashanddie: obviously. so what are they offering?11:17
wormsxullachina-made devices?11:18
crashanddiewormsxulla: to get beaten up when you go pick up the device with the 200euros in your pocket?11:18
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wormsxullathey wouldn't dare beating up a girl!11:19
wormsxulla(i hope!)11:19
crashanddiemdr, t'es une nana?11:19
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crashanddiewormsxulla: et tu veux un n900 pour quoi, exactement?11:21
LantiziaRST38h: if you want breakfast go with qlogic :)11:21
wormsxullacrashanddie: i want to run on my next "phone" :p11:22
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crashanddieJaffa: can you send me the text file you used to populate the two last editions of mwkn?11:51
crashanddieJaffa: I need to start using real test cases11:51
crashanddieJaffa: I'm going to get some food, if you could send them by email that would be very useful. Thanks11:55
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matt__hello I have some problems using syncevolution on my n900....I get an error message "CurlTransport Failure: couldn't connect to host" and really don't know what to do about...ideas anyone? thanks..12:00
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threshis it only me or FM TX transmits in Mono?12:00
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threshcause the quality is close to inferior12:00
Stskeepsput it closer to your antenna or boost it12:00
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Jaffacrashanddie: Will do12:08
JaffaComments welcome from anyone on (since people want a "download this whole issue" feature)12:08
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mephissHello, Is what some of you would compile nmap or tcpdump or iptraf or sniffit maemo for the N7000 please!12:13
mephissHello, Is what some of you would compile nmap or tcpdump or iptraf or sniffit maemo for the N70N700 Sorry00 please!12:13
StskeepsERROR: fails to parse12:14
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mephisshave you build nmap or tcpdump for maemon on N770 please ?12:19
jacekowskithresh: mono has nothing to do with quality12:19
Corsacnot sure much people build anything for n770 nowadays so if it's not already in repositories you'll have to do it yourself12:20
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mephissOk tanyou for this . gcc-arm nmap.c -o nmap ;-)12:22
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Corsacmephiss: is python available on n770?12:23
Corsacmephiss: if it is, you might want to try scapy12:23
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pupnikmephiss: did you search gronmayer?12:27
konttorimorning all!12:27
Stskeepsmorning konttori :)12:28
Jaffahi konttori12:28
konttoriI wonder how many people are compiling the latest desktop and other applications framework components to try out before releases12:29
Stskeepsme, Matan and hrw updates some things12:29
konttoriI have been wondering if we should make a development repo that contains up-to-date debs of all open AF components while development is still ongoing.12:29
konttorido you guys think that would be welcome or not?12:30
JaffaIt didn't work with Sardine (primarily cos no one could trust it)12:30
Stskeepswould probably be welcome but the problem would be conflicts with SSU process12:30
Stskeepsthere's more benefit to encouraging more people to move activities to gitorious as people can contribute as developers instead of end-user testing12:32
konttoriYeah, it would completely push people away from the OS updates (well, at-get would probably still do the trick)12:32
Stskeepsand maybe release candidates for SDKs, but that's also problematic with release processes etc :P12:32
b0unc3__hey guys, which is the block device of the root partition on maemo5 ?12:32
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konttoribut most of the components really are already in gitorious. But not much contributions form outside so far.12:33
Stskeepshopefully that's changing a bit after my openness report came out, people said they missed that reference12:33
Stskeeps47% of all open source fremantle packages are on gitorious now :)12:34
Stskeeps(or garage or otherwise accessible)12:34
pupnikany community is 99 pct whiners and 1 pct developers12:34
Stskeepskonttori: the main problem is really that the areas small-time developers really want to improve things in, would be the applications and they're closed source12:35
Jaffakonttori: Whilst plans and so on are closed (for open components) and there's no demonstrable way for patches to get into the hands of end-users, contributions will always be limited12:35
pupniki think ubi0 b0unc312:35
StskeepsJaffa: i've had good success with getting merge requests accepted, 100% acceptance rate so far12:35
konttoriStskeeps: yeah. I would also like to do tons of things to the apps, but ...12:35
Stskeepskonttori: (not saying they -should- be open source, just saying that's one of the problems :)12:35
konttoribut not the only problem with the apps ;)12:36
JaffaStskeeps: Anything which would be user visible or all build-system/internals stuff?12:36
b0unc3pupnik,  mount: mounting /dev/ubi0 on /mnt/tmp/ failed: Block device required12:36
konttorihaving said that, quite many apps are pretty stellar (like browser, IM messaging, phone)12:36
Stskeepskonttori: what could be interesting would be to attempt one of the apps as open source and see how the contribution process works now that things are on gitorious etc12:37
JaffaStskeeps: konttori: For example, if there was a post to maemo-developers saying "This is the timetable for PR 1.2 development [not release]: March 12 Code freeze" then people would know that if they wanted to change hildon-desktop they should get their merge request in by then.12:37
Stskeepsand see if there's an actual benefit to having things open12:37
StskeepsJaffa: one example of user visible is colours fix for SDK, by javispedro12:38
JaffaStskeeps: True12:38
konttoriI can tell you that. PR1.2 development is open for commits, code freeze was yesterday though ;)12:38
JaffaStskeeps: But I'm talking features12:38
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Jaffakonttori: Heh12:38
Jaffakonttori: So I was exactly one month out ;-)12:39
JaffaStskeeps: e.g. a patch to make it wrap the grid ;-)12:39
konttorianyway, it's still not definite code freeze, but gates start to close for almost all patches for pr1.2 now.12:39
StskeepsJaffa: general impression of that component (hildon-desktop, clutter, etc) is that they're open for patches, so it's just about trying12:39
konttoriwe take about 2 weeks now to just work on solidifying the release.12:39
konttoriwhich reminds me that we have tiny problem of rootfs space and will be doing optification of internal contents. Any suggestions for potential optification targets?12:40
JaffaStskeeps: Indeed, I'm sure they're open for patches - just like HAM was. But if Nokia never ship it, it's kinda disheartening. PR1.2's been a lot better for that than any other release to date12:40
konttoriqt4.6 really increases the space need.12:41
Jaffakonttori: Locales, browser, Qt itself12:41
konttoriin my list are now 1. all easy graphical assets (icons, themes, videos, tutorial flash)12:41
konttoriyeah, locales is a good candidate as well, although it compresses well in ubifs12:42
Jaffakonttori: /var/cache12:42
StskeepsJaffa: agreed, but it's about getting it in early enough :P12:42
konttorihmm... yeah, potentially that.12:42
fralsdidnt lcuk have a list in maemo-optify-boottime or smth?12:42
konttoriyeah, that's a proof of concept thing12:42
konttoriproper thing is to do the optification in the packaging itself12:43
fralsi guess those folders are good candidates anyway ;D12:43
JaffaStskeeps: yeah, which is why I go back to saying when "early enough" will be; whether there's plans for a PR 1.3 etc.12:43
konttoriso that during ssu, the package is extracted to opt directly12:43
Jaffakonttori: Aren't there issues with flasher then, though?12:43
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pupnikit is so nice to map fn+up to pageup12:44
redeemankonttori: any reason why you do the whole optification thing? why not just have the bigger thing mount binded or linked to /usr/local ? that should work ALOT better12:44
konttoriyou can flash to rootfs folder called: /opt. then on first boot, that folder gets optification treatment12:44
Jaffakonttori: Cunning12:44
Stskeepsredeeman: I/O on emmc isn't always that ogod12:44
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redeemanStskeeps: it would change nothing in that regard12:44
Jaffakonttori: So there's still a maximum flash size, but it clears up the rootfs on first boot12:44
Stskeepsredeeman: most of system is in /usr :P12:44
konttoriyeah, definitely the things to optify need to be picked with care. This is also why I don't entirely believe in automatic optification scripts either12:45
Jaffaredeeman: ...and then you're jsut into whether you call it /usr/local or /opt ;-)12:45
redeemanStskeeps: well whether stuff is in /opt linked to /, or in /usr/local on emmc is irellevant, only with /usr/local its alot easier for everyone12:45
konttoriJaffa: yeah - but we have quite a bit of free flash space still12:45
* Jaffa nods12:45
redeemanJaffa: true, except /usr/local is kindof what people use everywhere else, and which then people typically have in paths etc, plus, on /opt they do application dirs, and not lib,bin etc12:45
Stskeepsi still wonder why noone has made the "Move entire system to eMMC" package12:45
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jacekowskithat would require formatting it to linux fs12:46
Stskeepsor just repartitioning and resizing12:46
Jaffa...which isn't the hardest bit12:46
jacekowskiand mmc is slower12:47
konttorijacekowski: emmc has ext3 partition12:47
JaffaAlthough none of it is particularly hard, it's just... meh12:47
Stskeepsi still think it should be reverse, emmc primary system, NAND for fast access12:47
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konttorimmc slowness is the biggest issue. but afaik, harmattan guys are really looking into having OS in emmc. But I don't follow that in too much detail, so I could be missing current status.12:47
Stskeepsso the problem is optimisation instead12:47
JaffaYeah, m-vo's mentioned that plan for Harmattan12:48
JaffaHaving swap on the NAND and the OS on eMMC seems a nice simple soluion12:48
konttoriI think they still have lot of issues to conquer there.12:48
jacekowskibut it's amazing how small these micro SD cards can be12:48
jacekowski128 million transistors in something so small12:49
konttoriJaffa: it could be, but then again, I would definitely keep a fast file partition on oneNAND still12:49
bob-Ei thought all microsd cards where same size12:49
jacekowskibob-E: physical size - yes12:49
jacekowskibut capacity is different12:50
RST38hkonttori: is it true that the OMAP mmc controller operates at much slower rates than the MMC cards are rated for?12:50
ptmanredeeman, also, the File System Hierarchy standard specifies that /usr/local is to be structured like /usr and /opt for application directories12:50
Jaffakonttori: Probably sensible, but the architect in me says "overcomplex, don't optimise prematurely" :-/12:50
jacekowskiand you need at least one transistor per bit12:50
Jaffakonttori: But that's not to say it might not be necessary12:50
bob-Ei got 16gb microsd card over a year ago12:50
jacekowskiRST38h: i would recommend RTFM12:50
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konttoriRST38h: to be hones, I don't know. I'll try to find out on monday.12:51
RST38hkonttori: I remember that to be a problem with N8x0s, where TI suggested a certain "safe" clock rate12:52
konttoriI send a message to my work self to check it12:52
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konttoriyeah and that clock rate could be overclocked on kernel.12:52
crashanddieJaffa: thanks12:52
konttoriI remember that, and with higher clock, speed was significantly better. But afaik that's not issue in n900 anymore12:53
jacekowskiaccording to manual12:53
jacekowskiomap can use up to 48MHz clock for mmc12:53
jacekowskiand MMC can work on up 2012:54
jacekowskiand microsd up to 2512:54
konttoriby the way, we introduced the NEON optimizations to libjpeg (both encoding and decoding) yesterday. It was nice seeing even thumbnailing perf increased 2x.12:54
jacekowskiand SD up to 5012:54
jacekowskiRST38h: - page 23712:54
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pupniksometimes the microb select doesnt work :(  it scrolls the page despite having a checked "select" arrow13:02
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pupnikkonttori: yesterday? thought that was an older patch13:03
konttoriwell, we applied decoding earlier, but the encoding yesterday13:03
konttoriwe had some issues with the integration until yesterday.13:04
pupnikcool beans.   i am suspecting apt-worker may run faster on sd vs tmp13:06
pupnikbut i cant mess with system13:07
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ifreqhey root13:10
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pupnikhow do i enable browser portrait mode again?13:25
pupnikdoes one get any feedback?13:26
pupnikthat it has been activated?13:27
ptmannot that I remember, I still have to close the keyboard to get it into portrait mode13:27
pupnikoh totally forgot that13:27
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RST38hpupnik: press ctrl-shift-o, close keyboard, rotate vertically13:30
RST38hand yes it is persistent13:30
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pupnikit helps with some poorly designed sites13:31
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RST38hhelps everywhere: I hate holding device horizontally, especially when it is this heavy13:32
RST38hGoogle offers trying out Buzz. Accept?13:33
pixel-syntaxvalue your false sense of privacy?13:33
ptmanRST38h, sure, they claim to have fixed most of the privacy issues already13:33
StskeepsJaffa: mwkn hint,
pixel-syntaxit doesnt really expose anything that wasnt already visible beyond a subset of your gmail contacts13:34
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crashanddieJaffa: god dayum, I hadn't realised there were so many items per issue13:36
marcoilspeaking of buzz, does anyone know of a way of getting to the mobile version from the N900? Google is convinced it's not a mobile :)13:36
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RST38hpupnik: Also see bug #532413:37
povbot`Bug Add an option to zoom+reflow fonts, rather than the page image13:37
ptmanI hate it when the mobile autodetections isn't optional13:37
RST38hpupnik: They will probably try to close it again for some made up cause13:37
RST38hpupnik: So, the more noise we can make there the better13:37
pupnikis that possible to do?13:39
pixel-syntaxmarcoil: you can change the browsers user agent string i suppose13:39
SpeedEvilthere is a zoom + reflow keystroke13:39
SpeedEvilI forget what it was though13:39
marcoilpixel-syntax: I suppose so, but I've only found an extension for completely removing it, not for changing it depending on the site13:40
pupnikctrl shift I ?13:40
marcoilptman: it's ok if there's also a direct url for it like with gmail and reader13:40
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pixel-syntaxwhats with the mass quittings with coyote messages?13:44
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RST38hpupnik: Yea, ctrl-shift-i works, but you have to press it for every single freaking page13:52
RST38hpupnik: Nice but not quite practical13:52
RST38hpixel: Coyote have got them.13:52
RST38hhas, sorry13:53
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pupnikit does work?  can you show a page that it works on?14:07
pupniki get full page zoom on all i tried14:07
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pupnikaah it works on google.com14:08
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RST38hpupnik: it works everywhere.14:11
pupnikheh i love how media player video shows garbage through other apps14:12
pupnikwhen you background it14:12
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pupnikonly seems to shine through certain dark color values14:14
tronxcant seem to be able to edit anything in about:config in firefox on the n90014:14
tronxis it not possible ?14:15
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RST38hpupnik; that is called color keying14:18
RST38hbut I have no idea how you manage to background it: the <- icon is the only one shown14:19
tronxRST38h : any suggestions?14:19
JaffaStskeeps: Are the drivers free software or a blob from the initfs?14:20
StskeepsJaffa: sadly not free software. kernel is open source, libraries closed14:21
Stskeepscurrent state of GLES2 support in ARM world, so14:21
Stskeepsit's one of those times where it's nice that we don't commit to 100% open platform on the HW side :P14:21
jacekowskiis there a NX client for n900?14:22
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Tronx_sorry got disconnected,14:24
Tronx_so, is there a solution to this?14:24
Tronx_as in, editing stuff in about:config.14:24
Tronx_that is in the default browser and firefox mobile14:24
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Chikuis it possible to setup prority for wifi connections?14:29
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fluxjacekowski, qtnx, but I haven't tried it14:35
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Chikuqtnx is for only n8x0 irght?14:39
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Tronx_ok heres the problem15:00
Tronx_getting dns leaks with firefox when using tsocks15:00
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Tronx_and adding user_pref("network.proxy.socks_remote_dns", true); to prefs.js didnt help15:01
Tronx_thats a long with user_pref("network.proxy.socks", ""); and user_pref("network.proxy.socks_port", 1080);15:02
Tronx_so, has anyone solved this problem ?15:02
fluxchiku, well, there is qtnx in fremantle's extras-devel15:03
fluxhowever, intriqued by the question I installed nxserver on a host and tried qtnx on my ubuntu machine, and it doesn't work as easily as nxclient did :)15:04
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Chikuflux, I don't see qtnx in extras-devel :(15:09
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fluxhm, apt-cache showpkg qtnx -> 0.9-3maemo1 (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status)15:12
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threshany software to make N900 a DLNA server?15:26
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Chikuflux, I see it with apt-cache but not with maemo sofware manager15:27
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Chikusame for you?15:27
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threshaww rygel is SO slow15:37
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RST38h...will grow several centimeters every hour, and form connectors to attach to electrical power sources (wall socket plugs, USB connectors, Etc.)...15:38 vertebrate animals, will quickly penetrate the epidermis and other tissues, attaching to and enveloping the spine...15:39
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pupnikRST38h: ctrl-backspace to switch to another app15:55
pupnikworks playing downloaded flvs15:55
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crashanddieJaffa: could I get ftp credentials to the site?16:14
crashanddieJaffa: or at least some git/svn?16:14
crashanddieJaffa: I need mod_rewrite activated on Apache, and at least PHP516:15
crashanddieJaffa: actually, PHP4 might work too, but 5 would be nice, haven't tested with 416:15
crashanddieVDVsx: never noticed you had a council mask16:16
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VDVsxcrashanddie, I'm the boss :D16:18
* VDVsx hides16:18
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crashanddiehehe... are you now?16:18
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crashanddieVDVsx: /ban *@Maemo/community/council/*$##you_will_be_assimilated16:19
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pupnikoh man someone near me is selling a working apple IIe :)16:19
VDVsxcrashanddie, ;)16:20
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VDVsxcan someone confirm that the voting box doesn't appears here :
fralsVDVsx: no voting box here, confirmed16:23
zerojayVDVsx: Confirmed, no voting box.16:23
VDVsxfrals, zerojay thanks :)16:23
VDVsxsome bug, it seems16:24
fralsassuming its because they app got 10 votes already16:24
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infobotfrals meant: assuming its because the app got 10 votes already16:24
VDVsxfrals, humm, no, unless someone mess up :D16:24
fralserr, maybe its because its in extras?16:26
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* crashanddie rapes zerojay 16:28
crashanddieIf you asked me why I just did that, I have no idea -- AT ALL.16:28
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zerojay...ow, man.16:29
zerojayShow some love, but not THAT kind of love.16:29
crashanddiezerojay: hey, it's already 14th here16:30
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Pillumhey, is there a way to only repeat one song in the built-in media player16:33
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pupnikyes, click repear icon16:34
MohammadAG_Pillum, starting it using the filemanager works here16:34
zerojaycrashanddie: lol... I didn't know you Europeans had a "rape time", just like the Brits have tea time.16:34
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MohammadAG_pupnik, that repeats the whole list16:35
pupnikselect one song16:35
Pillumpupnik:  repeat the entire album16:35
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MohammadAG_Pillum, file manager16:36
lbtanyone using syncevolution here?16:36
Pillumwith the file manager i have to browse through my large music collection which has nearly 2000 folders16:36
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wazdheya all16:36
Pillumis there not another way?16:36
Stskeepsmoo wazd16:36
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Pillumis there already a bug filed about the repeat one option?16:40
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konttoriPillum: create a playlist of the song (lol!!)16:42
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Pilluma playlist for every song i have? :D16:43
Pillumi think that this is one of the basic functions a media player should have16:44
Pillumeven more important than a equalizer :)16:44
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MohammadAG_Pillum, same here, file a bug if you want16:49
MohammadAG_search if there's an existing one16:49
Pillumsearched and found nothing16:50
Pillumam waiting for bugzilla to create a account for me...16:51
MohammadAG_should be immediate16:51
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Pillumdont seem so for me16:52
Pillumwainting already an hour16:52
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RST38hkonttori: check out bug #532416:59
povbot`Bug Add an option to zoom+reflow fonts, rather than the page image16:59
RST38hkonttori: Has been closed before (there is a secret shortcut after all) but recently reopened. AFAIK, just making the setting persistent (like portrait mode) should do the job for most people, although a checkbox in the prefs would of course be nicer :)17:00
* MohammadAG thinks if Tunewiki cached lyrics it would be epic17:01
* DocScrutinizer thinks basic editing functions for the current playlist are even moe important17:03
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* MohammadAG never used playlists17:05
MohammadAG+ has*17:05
DocScrutinizerthe *current* playlist is the list of songs to play17:05
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DocScrutinizerif you never used it, you never played a song in mediaplayer17:06
MohammadAGlol just found that out17:06
MohammadAGcleared the playlist and it stopped the song17:06
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MohammadAGthe media player does need some enhancements though, I agree with that17:07
MohammadAGI hate how it blocks other app sounds17:07
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MohammadAGe.g pause a song, play a y(/z)outube video, it won't play the sound17:07
ptlin the N900 faq it says you can't assign a rigntone per contact. Is this feature available yet?17:08
DocScrutinizernot yet17:08
MohammadAGdoesn't profiler allow that?17:08
ptlok. Not very important, I just wanted to know.17:08
DocScrutinizermaybe some cute app (if someone was faster than me)17:09
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MohammadAGapp (if i got the name right)17:09
pillartweakr adds support for multiple profiles, mut not rigntones per contact I believe17:09
DocScrutinizertweakr doesn't17:09
pillarwhat I would really like is to hear the phone say the caller id out loud17:10
pillarinstead of different rigntones17:10
MohammadAGwhat's profiled17:10
MohammadAGoh nvm17:10
MohammadAGit always said them in a weird way on symbian lol17:11
DocScrutinizeryou'd need an app that listens to dbus for the inbound number, accesses the addressbook for the corresponding contact, extract a special field (note?) like 'X-RINGTONE: foo.wav" and switch the ringtone to play17:11
crashanddieJaffa: ping17:13
DocScrutinizerthe note field value should be parsed, to allow multiple entries like 'X-keyA: foo; X-keyB: bar; X-RINGTONE: chime.wav'17:15
MohammadAGkinda miss the sms lock feature on s60 9.2 and above17:15
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crashanddieJaffa: Do we want to keep the 2010/06/front.html format?17:20
DocScrutinizers/app/deamon  of course17:21
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BirdFlewhey all!17:23
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DocScrutinizer"X-RINGTONE: $friends" could mean: use the ringtone defined in another contact firstname friends, lastname $GROUP$17:25
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BirdFlewanyone know how i could possibly detect the N900's current phone number from within python?17:26
BirdFlewor even which lib to look at?17:27
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DocScrutinizeruse dbus-monitor to check all the signals during inbound call, >list-signals. Then grep list-signals for the phonenumber. Then you know which signal to wait for in your python app to gather the number17:29
BirdFlewcool, thanks DocScrutinizer17:29
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DocScrutinizerI did that, it works17:29
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DocScrutinizerBirdFlew: err sorry. on reading again I'm not sure you meant the number of an inbound call.17:32
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DocScrutinizerBirdFlew: if you want to get the number of your own sim, you probably can use soem AT command via pnatd17:33
BirdFlewyeah i'm after the sim number17:34
SpeedEvilAIUI AT commands are not reliable17:34
SpeedEvilthe SIM may not know its number17:35
DocScrutinizerbut then you lost17:35
DocScrutinizeras the ultimate instance to know your IMSI<->number assotiation17:36
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DocScrutinizeris the computer at the carrier's exchange (simplified)17:37
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DocScrutinizersome carriers may offer a USSD (*#987#) to echo some text containing your number17:40
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DocScrutinizeror send an SMS with e.g. 'INFO' to a special number, so you get a reply with the needed info about your number17:40
pupnikany guesses on pr1.2 release date?17:41
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pupniki figure maybe 4 weeks testing17:42
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pupnikthen yaay ussd17:43
Ken-YoungWhat new features will be available in pr1.2 ?17:43
DocScrutinizerUSSD-PAD rocks17:43
RST38hKen: lasers.17:43
RST38hKen: hypodermic needle will finally be avaiable to application developers via API17:43
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DocScrutinizerwell not exactly rocks, but it's a workaround17:44
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RST38hKen: the codes to invoke the Tentacled One from the dialpad will finally work in PR1.217:45
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VDVsxKen-Young, kitchen sink :)17:46
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simoneb_i asked for a ballroom couch, i hope the armchair will do anyway17:47
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MiXu-If anyone has an N900 at hand. Could you check if there's supposed to be a directory called /media/Remote_Filesystems ?17:49
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Ken-YoungMiXu-, I do not see that directory on my N900.17:50
pupniki only have mmc117:50
Ken-YoungMe too17:50
VDVsxoh, the bada babada OS is about to be released :)17:50
MiXu-Ok, thanks17:51
pupnikVDVsx: whatmis that?17:51
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VDVsxpupnik, samsung's new OS17:51
pupnikterrible name17:51
MiXu-I managed to completely fuck up the whole thing... Tracker doesn't work. App Manager doesn't work. Even sudo gainroot doesn't work.17:52
VDVsxit's only Bada17:52
VDVsxbut people keep making jokes with the name ;)17:52
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DocScrutinizerforget bada!17:53
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SpeedEvilOnly mmc1 here too MiXu-17:53
simoneb_has anybody got the script in this page to work? I compiled it but i get a "Failed to initialize libosso"17:53
povbot`Bug 2521: FM won't open files with known mime type unless the mime type has glob <pattern="*.xxx"/>17:53
pupniknice pics VDVsx17:53
VDVsxDocScrutinizer, there're rumors that sumsung is working in another linux OS beyond bada :)17:55
VDVsxsomething EFL based :D17:55
DocScrutinizerfamous rasterman (who by incidence is probably working for samsung to develop a linux based free OS, at least rumor has that) called bada "a hickup"17:55
VDVsxsame source here , eheh17:56
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|Ranyone got his microSD in read-only mode for no reasons?!18:03
DocScrutinizerwould be rather silly, eh :-P18:03
DocScrutinizerusually there *is* a reason18:03
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|Rhehe :)18:03
cehtehiridian: some SD cards go into readonly when they have errors and no spare blocks to replace18:03
MiXu-It's probably a bit corrupted18:03
|Ri unmounted it and did an fsck18:04
|Rbut... nothing changed :/18:04
cehtehor other reasons .. do micro sd have a readonly switch?18:04
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DocScrutinizerthat's strange18:04
|Rnah too small18:04
cehtehis it the card or just the filesystem?18:04
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DocScrutinizerobviously the fs18:05
* cehteh resist to pull his out .. the device is running :P18:05
DocScrutinizerotherwise fsck would fail18:05
|Ryes, i can only scan p1 not the block device18:05
MiXu-Does mount -a work for you or does it complain something about the rootfs?18:05
|Rlet me finish the fsck... :)18:06
DocScrutinizeraah, your MBR might be corrupted18:06
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bionoidDoes catorize put Bounce under the games category for you guys?18:10
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povbot`Bug 9043: media player has no 'repeat one track'18:15
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timeless_mbppupnik: credit?18:39
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: shan't is valid English, however i wouldn't use it, i consider it archaic18:41
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N3misisHello Com,can I use a WPA2 connection with the last version?18:45
N3misiswith a Nokia 77018:45
RST38hShadowJK: Thou oughtst not listen to the knave who tells you to shun the olde English tongue18:46
* RST38h wonders if "oughtst" is the correct form here, as it looks bogus18:46
wormsxullatimeless_mbp: are you the timeless on moznet?18:46
ShadowJKatleast you didnt say "ye"18:46
N3misishave no answer for me ? *G*18:47
RST38hShadowJK: I would if I were sure on the exact terms of use18:47
ShadowJKN3misis: I don't really know, but OS2008 on N800 and N810 supports WAP18:48
SpeedEvilshouldn't that be ought'st?18:49
timeless_mbpwormsxulla: sure and timeless_mbp18:49
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wormsxullatimeless*: ack!18:50
N3misisthe 770 from Nokia have normal WEP and WPA with Home Firmware18:50
ShadowJKRST38h: afaik they just used y in print because gutenberg was german and didn't make his printing press able to print thorn18:50
ShadowJKand then at some point they started using th18:50
ShadowJKbut that's just what I heard18:50
RST38hShadowJK: Naah,
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N3misisI thought the WPA2 with the last version would be evenuell possible18:50
pupnik_timeless_mbp: credit what?18:50
RST38hShadowJK: looks like there initially was the same intimate/polite distinction as in Russian (i.e. thou/ye vs TbI/BbI)18:51
RST38hShadowJK: Then the polite form pushed the intimate out (which I already knew) but the more interesting part is that nominative "ye" got replaced by objective "you"18:52
SpeedEvilThere are a lot of useful tenses that got lost.18:52
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ShadowJKif you go back long enough I start understanding more of the english than you atives ;)18:53
timeless_mbp01:33<pupnik_>timeless_mbp: where do i get credit for demanding that browser pauses javascript?18:53
derfIt could be worse. Japanese don't even have a future tense.18:53
RST38hShadowJK: That is a known fenomenon18:53
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N3misiswith what for does network a connection use it Nokia 770?18:53
RST38hShadowJK: I have done pretty well in medieval English literature class once, knowing way less English than my classmates :)18:54
pupnik_heh timeless_mbp i was beggimg fot that for a while18:54
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RST38hderf: So how do they work around that?18:54
cehtehwasnt the bug "mediaplayer switches to next station in playlist on connection interrupt" supposed to be closed in 1.1?18:54
timeless_mbppupnik_: you're using 51-1, right?18:54
lcukN3misis, im not sure (i never had a 770) which os have you put in it?18:54
SpeedEvilderf: that's because in japan, it's already the future.18:55
lcukis anyone doing anything cool with their other halves tonight/tomorrow, or just being lazy?18:55
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* SpeedEvil is taking his n900 out for a candlelit supper.18:56
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* wormsxulla is going for a zombie movie18:57
ShadowJKmaybe they can say "As for the future, read the manual not if, you in the face stab"18:57
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wormsxullahow does the n900 behave in the cold/hot temperatures?18:57
timeless_mbpwormsxulla: we don't have much in the way of hot weather here in HEL18:58
timeless_mbpbut we use it outside :)18:58
lcukit gets hot in the offices18:59
cehtehsome say it has resistive screen because of the finland temperatures18:59
wormsxullawith -15°C or such?18:59
lcukSpeedEvil, lol18:59
lcukwhat about your real wetware partner, not the silicon one18:59
ShadowJKI had it out of my pocket for about 15-20 minutes in -20C to video new year's fireworks18:59
ShadowJKdidnt notice anything cold related..18:59
wormsxullalcuk: maybe she's got a n900 too!18:59
cehtehlcuk: silicon, silicone .. who cares :)19:00
Kegetysyou'll get better pictures when its cold at least ;)19:00
lcukladies like the n900, tracy nabbed my work one and didnt give it back unless i promised to get her one19:00
wormsxullaShadowJK: in my experience, batteries tend to drain when the weather is cold, i was curious19:00
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cehtehwormsxulla: they dont drain, but they just cant provide the power19:00
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lcukcehteh, you do not get 600mhz silicone implants19:01
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cehtehbringing them back into the warm or put it in the pocket and all is ok19:01
wormsxullacehteh: yeah, or that :) which is annoying19:01
RST38hlcuk: You do not?19:01
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lcukwormsxulla, its not that they drain is it, its that the capacity lowers19:01
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cehtehheat is more bad for batteries than cold (well except extremes in any direction)19:01
cehtehheat really ages/detoriates batteries19:02
shamusyep bateryes like the middle temps19:02
RST38hHmm... Google Buzz is kinda annoying19:02
lcukRST38h, last time i tried resting my head on some multi mhz silicone pillows my head didnt stop shaking for months19:02
ShadowJKwormsxulla: they don't drain per se, they're just not able to provide as much power (and remember power is not equal to energy) at as high voltage, so during high load the battery voltage will drop more than when warm, and the battery meter might think the battery is empty and even shut down the device19:02
RST38hWhy does it send me all the stuff as emails?19:02
cehtehcold preserves them (unless the electolyte freezes and damages them)19:02
RST38hlcuk: resonanse!19:02
N3misishave noooooooo Member a Info to WPA2 for me????? *G* amazing *G*19:02
cehtehbut they cant provide much power at cold19:02
lcukwormsxulla, to visually see the sort of effect19:02
lcukget a glowstick19:02
ShadowJKheat permanently degrades batteries, cold temporarily makes them tired :)19:03
lcukput one in freezer, put one in kettle19:03
lcuksee which one drains faster19:03
lcuksame sort of effect occurs with pretty much all chemicals19:03
wormsxullalcuk: glowsticks are so out of the fashion these days :) but i understand, thanks for the experiment :)19:03
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shamusleave one at room temp with wifi and bluoth turned19:04
lcukeven humans ;)19:04
wormsxullaso actually, you need to live in a moderate weather country :)19:04
RST38hbetter puncture both batteries and RUN19:04
Kegetysor stay indoors19:04
RST38hor carry it close to your heart and keep it always running19:04
wormsxulla(be mobile indoors!)19:04
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ShadowJKin practice my jeans pocket maintains a wamr enough temperature19:05
wormsxullado you guys give names to your devices? :)19:05
lcukspare head 1, spare head 219:05
lcukmy 900s just have simple names19:06
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pupnik_lcuk is the only one who needs to :)19:07
ArifI only have one19:07
crashanddieJaffa: generated from database:
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crashanddieanyway, 3AM, I'm off to bed19:07
torindelArif: he probably wanted to have stereo ;p19:07
lcukpupnik, heh have you still got the photo of liqflow?19:07
lcukor did you find the video19:07
Arifbut it already has two speakers!19:08
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Arifwhich suck, btw19:08
* lcuk has 6 speakers19:08
Arifcan you increase the built in media player or KMPlayer's volume in any way19:08
Arifit's not very usable for video/speech19:08
lcukyeah, theres a volume control19:08
* crashanddie has 12 speakers19:09
torindelArif: with any mplayer clone its easy19:09
lcukslide it to 1119:09
crashanddiein his hotel room19:09
lcukcrashanddie, i think we were talking about n900s19:09
Ariftorindel, how?19:09
torindelArif: -softvol -softvol-max 1000019:09
crashanddielcuk: as I was saying... :)19:09
Arifhow do I enter that in KMPlayer's GUI :P19:09
wormsxullaOS2008 is the name of the n810 OS? i thought that ran maemo 4?19:10
crashanddieI'm out, later19:10
* Arif pokes the forum19:10
* wormsxulla gets a headache19:10
wormsxullacrashanddie: bonne nuit19:10
Ariffound it19:10
lcukgnite crashanddie19:10
pupnik_i notice with alsamixer we can apparently change or disable the speaker protection19:11
simoneb_seems like osso_notes opens every file which is not in MyDocs as read-only?19:11
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torindelArif: also note that -softvol-max is in % ;p19:12
Arifmaybe I should try something lower19:12
Ariflike 40019:12
lcukpupnik, liqflow photo/video?19:13
Ariflook at mplayer's config:19:13
Arif# Write your default config options here!19:13
MiXu-I need to do fsck for N900 in bootup. Is it safe to just edit fstab and change the fsckorder value?19:13
fluxmixu-, fsck for which filesystem?19:13
fluxmixu-, because if you want to run it for the rootfs, there is no fsck for ubifs. for other filesystems, no idea ;)19:14
Arifis there a same tweak for the built in player ?19:14
MiXu-flux: For /home partition. That's ext319:15
torindelArif: afair kmplayer was just gui, so you could specify default options to mplayer backend19:15
Arifno, I mean the N900's built in player19:15
ArifI find KMplayer hard to use19:15
fluxmixu-, I would consider instead of doing that, stopping all processes that use the /home partition and given that that doesn't work, do the best you can and remount it read-only19:15
Arifas I haven't found any shuffle in it :P19:15
fluxmixu-, if that works, you could run fsck.ext3 on it..19:16
torindelArif: -shuffle ;p19:16
* Arif hits torindel with a gui19:16
MiXu-flux: Is there a way to see which processes use /home?19:16
* torindel evades19:16
fluxmixu-, in any case /etc/fstab is generated by a script (I don't remember which script, I suppose you can find it from /etc/init.d etc)19:16
* Arif throws his N900 at torindel19:16
fluxmixu-, lsof19:16
* torindel catches and runs!19:16
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fluxmixu-, or fuser -mv19:17
RST38hcrashanddie, Jaffa: BTW, how does it look on the tablet? =)19:17
fluxah, never mind, busybox fuser doesn't support -v19:17
crashanddieRST38h: never tried it19:17
RST38hcrashanddie: <facepalm>19:17
MiXu-Ok, I'll try that. Thanks.19:17
fluxactually busybox fuser doesn't seem very useful at all, use lsof19:17
crashanddieRST38h: I'm not a graphics dev. Or in other words: "Not my problem"19:18
fluxmixu-, of course, have your backups handy as always ;)19:18
fluxbtw, has anyone used backuppc for backing up n900?19:18
* timeless_mbp looks for someone w/ an n900 and a few minutes19:18
* Arif whistles19:18
AijseONly times I booted Windows last year was because of software support for my phone, Will the N900 be well supported by Ubuntu?19:19
timeless_mbpAijse: future tense?19:20
MiXu-You won't need windows with n90019:20
timeless_mbpwhen? in a year, two years, or ten years?19:20
Aijse2 months19:20
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timeless_mbpyou can use it w/ usb mass storage19:20
Arifnokia map loader only works on Windows :P19:20
lcukbut nokia map caches can be downloaded and inserted on linux19:21
zerojayDon't need it,19:21
MiXu-Map loader doesn't work with N900 afaik19:21
timeless_mbpand you can use it for networking19:21
torindeltimeless_mbp: you mean as in plugin in usb key in it? nope19:21
timeless_mbptorindel: i mean plugging the n900 into a computer19:21
torindeltimeless_mbp: yes19:21
timeless_mbp(running Ubuntu)19:21
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AijseIf I need to update the oss on the N900 foe example19:22
Aijsedo I need windows or can it be done with ubuntu and usb connection?19:23
timeless_mbpyou can use the n900 to update the os19:23
Arifyou use WLAN or 3G19:23
ShadowJKI mean, some people don't ever use their PCs at all with their phone..19:23
ShadowJKI thought map loader didn't work at all.. :P19:23
ShadowJKthe N900 updates itself. there's also a flashing utility for linux19:23
Aijsetimeless_mbp, Incase of more serious fuck ups of the system that might not work19:24
AijseAhadowJK, ye thanks ... flashing utility was what I was looking for19:24
ShadowJKI think flasher-3.5 works better than NSU..19:24
lcukwasnt there a time when you *had* to use linux to reflash?19:25
MohammadAGnsu kinda bricked my phone19:25
lcukie the windows one is the new kid on the block19:25
timeless_mbpAijse: the flasher that Nokia employees use to develop the platform runs on linux, it happens to be ported to o and windows, but its native environment is linux. happy?19:25
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AijseSounds good!19:25
lcukwb VDVsx19:25
timeless_mbpplease note that it isn't an _update_, it's a WIPE. you lose everything :)19:26
timeless_mbp(it isn't any safer from windows, in case you're curious)19:26
Aijsetimeless_mbp, ye but its exactly what you need form time to time when you experiment arround19:26
timeless_mbpor you could be less adventurous19:26
AijseI tried that before19:27
Aijsedidnt work19:27
ShadowJKby the way, don't experiment with low battery19:27
* RST38h moos at VDVsx19:28
ShadowJKbecause if you mess up the n900 so it doesn't boot, it doesn@t charge battery, and you can't flash with low battery19:28
jaskashould have done all the charging stuff in one of the asics :|19:29
pupnik_i use the universal charger almost every day for all my devices19:29
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: according to the l3/l4 manual - that seems to be false.19:29
SpeedEvil(charging battery)19:29
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ShadowJKwell it might charge at low rate, but if it's trying to boot to dispalay charging, it ends up consuming more power than ot charges without the full current negotiation..19:31
SpeedEvilIt will at least minimally charge the battery - with no software19:32
Aijsethat sounds tricky19:32
SpeedEvilbut I'm unsure what happens when it gets to the 'boot now' threshold19:32
Aijseneed a friend with same battery :P19:32
SpeedEvilDo you own a car, and a set of jump leads?19:32
SpeedEvil(not really)19:32
SpeedEvilI assume you don't have a variable lab PSU?19:32
Aijsecan always take it to university19:33
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ShadowJKNeeds precise voltage setting, and current limiter19:33
SpeedEvilThat's the right way. ~500mA - current limited - to 4.20V19:34
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MiXu-500mA isn't enough for everything19:34
RST38hmoar poar!19:35
SpeedEvilis the wrong way19:35
ShadowJKVoltage to 4.2, Current limit: if battery voltage is over 3.2, use 500mA. If lower than 3.2, use 100mA until 3.2V is reached, and keep fire extinguisher ready. Once voltage has risen to 4.2V and current has dropped to 100mA, charge is done19:35
SpeedEvilMiXu-: it's enough if it's not htere19:35
SpeedEvilMiXu-: if the phone is not connected19:36
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SpeedEvilThough the above works pretty much OK19:36
MiXu-Ah, sorry I didn't read the entire conversation19:36
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MiXu-I thought you were talking about phone power consumption19:37
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* N900evil wonders what to do now angrybirds is ***'d out.19:38
AethaerynWow. The N900 can be used as a PS3 controller. A PS3 controller can be used with the N900.19:39
AethaerynNext step: using the N900 as a controller for another N900...19:39
fluxaethaeryn, it's not that crazy idea19:39
fluxaethaeryn, multiplayer games on tv :)19:39
MiXu-Hmm. :)19:40
AethaerynSuper Mario Kart... hypothetically speaking.19:40
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* ShadowJK has managed to go from 100 to 35 percent battery in 70 minutes19:41
AijseN 900 as full mulimedia remote... like a harmony from logitech .. with display offcourse19:41
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AethaerynHow about this? N900 "lan party"... Three people bring a N900, one is hooked up to an HD TV (does the N900 have a connector?) and that's used as a "host" for the game... And then the other two N900s are used to control the TV19:41
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AijseN 900 has compsite out ... no hd19:42
AethaerynN920 needs HDMI19:42
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fluxaethaeryn, wireless hdmi!19:43
AethaerynWirless USB 3.0!19:43
ifreqyeah and some LSD then all would be just perfect19:43
lcukN900evil, make moar levels19:44
MiXu-I wouldn't be sure it'll be N920. Nokia is moving to thos C, N, X, E, S series naming and I think the product names will only have one number19:44
ShadowJKwireless: the modern equivalent of two tincans with a piece of string19:44
RST38hMiXu: Will that number be hexadecimal then?19:44
SpeedEvilExcept there is no string!19:44
MiXu-RST38h: Doubt it =)19:44
RST38hWireless tincans.19:44
fluxmixu-, n920 has only one number.. :-)19:45
AethaerynMiXu-: But what about the rumored N1337?19:45
ifreqwho will get the new maemo phone if it doesnt have qwerty keayboard(physical) ?19:45
MiXu-Ahem... 1 Digit...19:45
MiXu-not me19:45
Aijseme neither19:45
ifreqsame here19:45
MiXu-I'd rather buy iPhone :D19:46
ifreqmy one reason to get n900 was the keyboard (changed from iphone)19:46
ifreqand ofcourse the OS is nice :-)) to play around19:46
tank-manall the keys you need are "1", "0" and "enter" :)19:46
Stskeepswazd: i wouldn't mind that "for dummies" book on my bookshelf :)19:46
ShadowJKi wont get it unless its a significant performance upgrade19:47
AijseAnd the fact that the iPhone is getting a snob image by now19:47
ShadowJKI thought it always had a snob/fag image ;)19:47
wazdStskeeps: :D19:47
AethaerynAijse: But there's an app for that! There's just so many options in web browsers and music players in its app store... And that multitasking is brilliant... Not to mention all the syncing apps on the computer-side you can choose from.19:48
ShadowJKportrait mode.. wouldn't it make more sense to have the speaker/webcam/als/led down, so that the antenna is up?19:48
ShadowJKthe way it's now, you cover the antenna when holding it19:48
AethaerynAnd their teathering apps are... wait...19:49
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AijseAethaeryn, they made a reduce snob factor app? :P19:49
MiXu-ShadowJK: It'll warm your hand nicely19:49
Stskeepswazd: you should refer to that guide on Design section of TMO too19:49
Stskeepsah, you did19:49
AethaerynAijse: You got to admit, they have an ingeneous multitasking method of "Our stuff can multitask and your stuff can't."19:49
wazdStskeeps: :P19:49
ShadowJKI think my N900 is like 40C now19:49
MiXu-At least I wouldn't have to spend time fixing the iPhone after I broke it by installing some half-assed application from extras-devel.19:50
MiXu-I could think of better ways to spend a saturday night ;)19:50
AethaerynI think it went over her head when my sister complained that she couldn't listen to Pandora and browse at the same time and I made a remark about "multitasking"19:50
ShadowJKbattery voltage at 3502 after 76 minutes from full, I'm surprised it hasn't bleeped empty at me yet19:50
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ShadowJKMiXu-, but you could spend time fixing iphone after installing something half arsed from one of the jailbreak sites19:51
AijseMy room m8 has am iPhone, she never knew she could d-load any apps19:51
MiXu-ShadowJK: Hmm. True.19:51
Aijseshe just knew she could pollish it19:51
Aijsegood feature though19:51
wazdStskeeps: I think I should stick this thread19:51
MiXu-So I think the problem here is that I'm a nerd and have the tendency to fix things until they are broken.19:51
ShadowJKI mean, if you don't want to risk damaging the N900 then you should stick to extras19:51
ShadowJKI thought there was warnings about extras-devel and extras-testing :)19:52
MiXu-ShadowJK: Yep. Lesson learnt :D19:52
Stskeepswazd: yeah19:52
MiXu-Don't take me wrong. I love all the hacking and stuff. I just need the phone to work whenever I leave the house.19:52
MiXu-Solution: 2 phones.19:52
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lcukMiXu-, but 2 isnt enough either19:53
lcuki like your thinking btw19:53
ShadowJKIf you need it to work, don't hack it...19:53
* lcuk does exactly that19:53
ShadowJKJust because you can doesn't mean you have to19:53
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MiXu-I have a symbian device for calling if shit really hits the fan. It's hack proof. I just don't _want_ to do anything with it.19:53
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simoneb_it's more or less like a car, you can take apart every piece of it, change the engine or the wheels or whatever you want, but if you don't know what you're doing, you can't complain that it doesn't work any more19:57
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lcuksimoneb_, i dont know how to fix my car either, but theres people around who do19:58
vanadismobiledo these people have irc?19:59
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lcukvanadismobile, for car people, theres a neighbour up the street who owns a garage and is always helpful :)20:00
* lcuk finishes writing the thing he started earlier20:00
simoneb_i know of a lot of people who fix home windows computers for a living, but none who fix home linux computers...20:01
* vanadismobile tries to stop finishing lcuk20:01
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lcuksimoneb_, sometimes you have to look harder, and offering money is a good thing20:01
vanadismobilelolwut, wat am i writing...20:02
* lcuk slaps u20:02
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RST38his there such a thing as a home linux computer? =)20:03
lcukyeah RST38h20:03
lcukmany of the first eees at very least were linux werent they20:03
lcukfrom the shops etc20:03
simoneb_lcuk: ok, make that "i know of a lot of people who can fix windows computers for free, but none etc.etc."20:03
simoneb_well my home computer has ubuntu20:04
lcukas do all my laptops20:04
lcuki keep threating luke with linux on his DS20:04
lcukbut he shouts20:04
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* lcuk ponders releasing a midpoint liqflow20:05
GeneralAntilleslcuk, be careful he doesn't find any good Linux games or you might actually have to follow through on that one. :P20:05
lcukGeneralAntilles, angrybirds style gameplay on the ds would be cool20:06
simoneb_does anybody have a clue of why osso_notes does not auto-save my files, but it does save if asked? i've launched it via "hildon_mime_open_file_with_mime_type", and it does auto-save correctly if launched from the file manager or manually20:06
lcukit would have to be firing upwards really20:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I'm sure there's already something.20:06
AethaerynSo... Maemo or Windows Mobile 7? Which is better?20:07
lcukprobably gen20:07
GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, don't troll.20:07
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I know such games exist for Wii, so. . . .20:07
AethaerynSorry, couldn't resist seeing as WinMo is in the headlines this week... :(20:07
lcukGeneralAntilles, ahh so even AB is a clone20:07
lcukAethaeryn, if you troll GeneralAntilles too much, he will put you in the news :p20:08
AethaerynSo can Maemo multitask?20:08
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GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, yes, but only at an extreme cost to battery life since it has to use a different CPU core for each new task.20:09
AethaerynHow many CPU cores are there in the N900?20:09
GeneralAntillesAt least a dozen20:10
AethaerynSo there can be at least a dozen things run at once?20:10
MiXu-Can someone check if there's supposed to be something in /etc/sudoers ?20:10
GeneralAntillesAlthough I believe somebody on Talk is working on adding more with an addon card.20:10
MilhouseDon't forget the disabled cores that are there to get the production yields up, the hack to enable those is a god send20:11
GeneralAntillesIndeed, though you need to do some soldering on some units.20:11
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GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, of course Maemo can multitask. There only practical limit is the one where you eventually enter swap hell and CPU deadlock, but that's in the 30-60 application range (depending on size, complexity and what they're doing).20:13
cehtehso .. polipo as caching proxy (cache on microsd) configured .. lets see how well that works20:13
cehtehmy big squid here does magic speeding up openstreetmap20:14
MiXu-Yay \o/20:14
AethaerynWell, that's good to know. With iPhone/iPad not multitasking, and with WinMo 7 possibly removing multitasking, "multitasking" is one of those buzz words going around.20:14
MiXu-Fixed it. My problems was that wizard mounter corrupted my sudoers file. Running update-sudoers helped :o)20:14
GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, Maemo is basically very similar functionality-wise to your average desktop Linux machine.20:14
WZhanglol, WinMo without multitasking, good luck with that20:14
AethaerynExcept in hardware...20:15
mashiarafunctional specifications do not care of implementation details...20:16
AethaerynThe one thing I'm hesitant about is paying over $500 for something that can't run stuff I can run on my laptop...20:16
* b-man17 facepalms20:16
pupnik_it is smaller than a laptop20:16
GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, it's basically like having a laptop that fits in your pocket.20:17
lcukAethaeryn, i paid £10,000 for my car, but it doesnt do the same as my laptop20:17
lcukcan you make a call from your laptop?20:17
lcukor take 5mp pictures20:17
GeneralAntilles. . . but can make phone calls and has decent battery life.20:17
* ShadowJK paid 6900E for his car and it doesn't even bake bread, what a POS :(20:17
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, you're just not trying hard enough. :P20:17
lcukAethaeryn, not exactly the same tho is it20:18
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, you have heat and an enclosed space. Any other problems are personal. :P20:18
lcukShadowJK, 12v breadmaker20:18
AethaerynDoes Wesnoth run on the N900?20:18
ShadowJKI should have gotten a LADA, atleast it can grill sausages20:18
nid0bread mix on top of the engine block, go for a drive, sorted20:18
lcuknid0, i tried that, but the egg kept rolliung off20:18
AethaerynWesnoth + Freeciv are the only games I play, and if I could get it running on my phone maybe I'd be tempted to finish the add-ons I'm making20:18
lcukand breaking on the road20:18
GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, dunno if anybody has updated it yet, but there's no reason why not.20:18
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GeneralAntillesFreeciv is in the repos, I think.20:18
mashiaraon N810 wesnoth was something I wasted a lot of time on...20:19
b-man17i believe Wesnoth is avalible for fremantle...20:19
* lcuk hits b-man17 on the head20:19
lcuk(no reason, just because)20:19
AethaerynOh, I regularly compile Wesnoth 1.7 and SVN trunk on my computer, with two different installs... though I use scons to compile and I'm not sure if the N900 can use that.20:20
lcukthen dig and find out dude20:20
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lcukcan n900 improve my standing with the ladies?20:21
mashiaradepends on the ladies20:21
b-man17Aethaeryn: trust me, the N900 can do almost anything your laptop can do if you put your mind to it ;)20:21
GAN900lcuk, too late for you.20:21
lcuki meant more in a physical sense, im a bit short i need platform boots20:21
ifreqlcuk: i think somethings cannot be fixed20:21
nid0some ladies will look at the n900, compare it to their hd2, and laugh at the small size20:21
* b-man17 ran Ubuntu 9.04 on his N800 ;P20:22
mashiara"it's not the size, it's the way you use it..."20:22
lcukhas anyone got 4 n900s20:22
lcukor more20:22
b-man17lol, why xD?20:23
Aethaerynlcuk: Buy two n900s and store them in your shoes instead of your pockets?20:23
lcukor can get together with friends20:23
AethaerynThen you'll look taller.20:23
ShadowJKI'm thinking I'll get a second one when the USB port fails, and then I'll set up a blog and go on a crusade against nokia20:23
fralslcuk: how the hell do you know which one is the one you use for calling and stuff and which one you dont?20:23
ifreqShadowJK: i think the failing has been happened after user unpacked the phone20:23
ifreqShadowJK: or have you heard its broke after long usage?20:23
fralsim grabbing the wrong one all the time, and mine even got diff keyboards20:23
lcukfrals... i used to have a problem, not not so much20:23
ifreq(i havent)20:23
lcuki only have 2 finished ones that look right20:24
lcukand its rare i get calls on the wrong one20:24
ShadowJKifreq, dunno20:24
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Stskeepsanyone know if there's packaging for yet?20:24
AethaerynWait, is Maemo basically a Linux distro, thus meaning that there's a centralized repository of free precompiled apps for it?20:24
mashiaraaethaeryn: yes20:24
ShadowJKUntil Nokia has completed their investigation and told us their findings I'm pessimistic :)20:24
lcukfrals, stickers work, and i just got this for tracy, but need a phone to fill it:
lcukAethaeryn, sure20:25
lcukfrals, and for the longest time i had a lanyard clip on my primary20:25
mashiarait just hand't get 15k apps like debian/ubuntu20:25
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lcukmashiara, then get porting20:25
fralsah, should get a lanyard on the one i use, good point20:25
ShadowJKThere's easy-debian-chroot that lets you run all of debian on it20:25
fralsjust dont want it scratching the screen :P20:26
lcuknow, at home it doesnt really matter20:26
mashiaralcuk: I didn't mean it as a bad thing...20:26
Aethaerynmashiara: That's okay, I use Fedora anyway...20:26
lcuki run liqsketch stuff using the network thing20:26
AethaerynSo I'm used to having only a "few" thousand apps :P20:26
lcukso both devices get the sketches20:26
lcukAethaeryn, im sorry20:26
lcukmy condolences, how on earth did you end up on fedora :p :D lol20:26
* ShadowJK uses fedora too20:27
ShadowJKThe other day I realized I have a newer linux kernel on N900 than on my desktop20:27
lcuktwitter is full!20:27
lcukbut no1 go there20:27
lcukcos i want to login sometime20:28
mashiaraaethaeryn get the "maemo SDK"20:28
mashiarait will allow you to quickly test if something compiles without tweaks or not20:28
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Aethaerynmashiara: Does the SDK work on Linux?20:29
ShadowJKIt ONLY works on Linux20:29
ShadowJKThough there are ubuntu+sdk vmware images for windows users20:29
* ShadowJK actually uses the vmware image on linux too...20:29
mashiaraI just installed it on my Ubuntu VM (running in Parallels on OSX)20:30
ifreqShadowJK: or osx users..20:30
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ShadowJKsure, and Solaris users20:30
ifreqrumnnin virtual sdk on fusion myself20:30
ifreqworks nicely.20:30
pekujaare the repositories down right now or something? I'm having trouble with apt-get update when trying to install the SDK20:31
pekujaRunning apt-get update on 'FREMANTLE_ARMEL'.20:31
pekuja0% [Waiting for headers]20:31
* b-man17 has a dev environment on his N900 while on-the-go20:31
pekujaand it goes nowhere from there20:31
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AethaerynDoes irssi run on Maemo?20:31
mashiarapekuja: same for me, looks like something is going on20:32
AethaerynI have been using irssi since before 2006 (basically, day one of being full-time Linux user) and I really can't go back to an IRC client with a GUI20:32
pekujamashiara: I guess I'll just have to wait then. luckliy I'm not in a rush or anything20:33
AethaerynUnfortunately had a hard drive crash on my first Linux computer so I'll never know the first day of logs.20:33
AethaerynBack then, when I had a desktop, I was going through a phase of trying to see how much uptime I could get out of the computer. The hardware gave out before the software did.20:33
ShadowJKAethaeryn, x-terminal is installed by default, and irssi is in the extras repository... openssh is also there in case you want to run irssi in screen on a server somewhere20:33
SpeedEvilxchat wfm.20:34
ShadowJKYeah I use xchat too20:34
AethaerynWell, irssi played into my uptime obsession.20:34
ShadowJKas frontend to irssi mostly ;-)20:34
* b-man17 uses xchat20:34
AethaerynUsing "screen irssi" I wouldn't lose IRC even when the GUI went down.20:35
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AethaerynAnd it did go down several times.20:35
lcukjust cheat with uptime20:35
lcukive had my n900 uptime measured in decades20:35
hcarregaovi store is getting and update?20:35
Aethaeryn"This N900 has been on longer than cell phones have existed."20:35
b-man17lcuk: your cheat is a time machine xD20:37
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lcukb-man17, o_O20:37
lcukbbl noms20:37
* Aethaeryn finally found out a disadvantage to Amazon Prime's free two-day shipping.20:38
* ioeee saluda20:38
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AethaerynIf I were to buy the N900 today, I would get it Tuesday. There has been two major blizzards, and the snow's still on the ground. Anything shipped would surely get damaged.20:38
AethaerynI *want* two-week shipping :P20:38
AethaerynOver a meter/yard (depending on system of measurement) of snow on the ground isn't something to mess with.20:39
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b-man17Aethaeryn: where are you located?20:39
b-man17just curious20:40
AethaerynThe DC-Baltimore-Philadelphia area was completely disabled all week.20:41
SpeedEvilUnusual weatehr?20:41
AethaerynMy university shut down the whole week.20:41
AethaerynVery unusual.20:41
AethaerynA record blizzard followed by a large one several days later.20:42
SpeedEvilNormal weather here (scotland) - though late Dec was the heaviest falls of snow for 20 years.20:42
AethaerynWell, we're further south.20:42
AethaerynEven an inch of snow would cripple Miami Florida20:42
* b-man17 got those same 2 storms f- but we only got 1 1/2'20:42
AethaerynThe further south you are, the less snow you can handle.20:42
SpeedEvilIt snows on the equator.20:42
b-man17*1 1/2 feet20:42
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AethaerynWell, Amazon even had something up that said "Due to major storms on the east coast, shipping may be delayed"20:43
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AethaerynI do all my shopping off of Amazon, so the $80 a year Amazon Prime fee probably has already paid for itself.20:43
AethaerynIt's an evil scheme to get you to do all your shopping there since I ignore if it's a dollar or two cheaper elsewhere if I have free two day shipping off of Amazon.20:44
SpeedEvilAll your shopping?20:44
SpeedEvilDo they do groceries now?20:44
AethaerynOkay, all the shopping that's fun.20:44
* SpeedEvil is doing all shopping online.20:45
SpeedEvilIncluding groceries.20:45
*** PaulFertser_ has quit IRC20:45 is a site I trust because they don't sign you up to hidden leach services that charge you $12 a month if you don't cancel them.20:45
AethaerynWhich happened to me on another website.20:45
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AethaerynAll that *really* does is make me even less likely to use anything except Amazon for online shopping... morons, they're just letting Amazon build a name of trust.20:45
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GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, wouldn't take an inch.20:46
GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, temps start dropping below freezing down here and people start freezing in their homes.20:46
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, groceries yes, but only in WA.20:46
b-man17that's true xD20:46
* Aethaeryn grew up in a desert climate.20:46
AethaerynI laugh at the "heat stroke" warnings once we get in the 90s or 100s...20:47
SpeedEvilyeah - many people do absolutely not know how to deal with the cold.20:47
SpeedEvilOr heat20:47
Aethaeryn"Stay indoors... code red..." etc...20:47
GeneralAntillesHot, on the other hand, we can handle.20:47
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SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: I've got 3 supermarkets that will deliver to me, so I don't reallyu need amazon.20:47
AethaerynNow you're making me seriously check to see if Amazon does groceries.20:48
GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, they do, but only in WA.20:48
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, we have some local ones that'll deliver, too, but you have to order over the phone.20:48
SpeedEvilOf course, my first task after finding a new supermarket that delivers is to scrape the website, and do a sort-by-price script.20:48
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, I'd just as soon drive the mile. ;)20:48
MiXu-it's been like -10C to -25C here lately. chilly.20:49
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: yeah - it's more like 10 yere. And gasoline is $2/l. And I don't currently have a license.20:49
SpeedEvilMiXu-: Indeed.20:49
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SpeedEvil is an interesting concept.20:49
SpeedEvilpure grocery delivery service - no stores20:49
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, I like the photoshopped truck picture in the right column.20:50
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at the Tropicana ad.20:50
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GeneralAntillesThat stuff is so gross.20:50
MiXu-(that's -13F)20:51
GeneralAntillesfrals, ping?20:51
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AethaerynAccording to the 1995 film The Net, you could order pizza online... in 1995.20:51
AethaerynRemember, this is before most people used the Internet for anything, let alone used it for shopping.20:52
SpeedEvilIn one or two locations - perhaps20:52
AethaerynThat's reassuring.20:52
AethaerynNokia isn't ditching the hardware keyboard, it's a fake.20:52
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SpeedEvilI have seen simple applications that used basically a form hooked up to a printer to do that sort of thing20:53
b-man17that fake mockup looks ugly20:53
GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, yeah, no shit. :P20:53
jaskadidnt "the net" have ipv4 addresses with octets > 25520:53
GeneralAntillesAethaeryn, anybody who looked at that and didn't notice the fakery is blind. :P20:53
Stskeepsn920 running diablo20:54
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Stskeepshell, n900 doesnt run diablo, even though i might be bored enough to try and get it to boot.20:54
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, please don't. :P20:54
GeneralAntillesIf you're ever that bored it means you need to find more PRODUCTIVE things to do. :D20:54
GaryI nearly bought a n900 today :-)20:54
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm currently rebuilding Mer from scratch to try out a hypothesis, :P20:55
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, see, that sounds productive.20:55
AethaerynI still think that the next Nokia device in the line should be called the N133720:55
AethaerynJust skip a few numbers.20:55
GeneralAntillesAt least it doesn't have anything to do with a codebase from 2007. :P20:55
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: Debian Lenny? ;)20:55
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: was your dell mini a touchscreen btw?20:55
GeneralAntillesThey make them in touchscreen?20:55
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: no idea20:56
AethaerynThe python installer for the sdk requires root access?20:56
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, the Mini 9 only has an aftermarket mod20:56
fralsGeneralAntilles: pong20:56
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: seeking targets for testing out mer^2 and currently i have a zoom2 on the armel side, and a joggler on the x86 side :P20:56
AethaerynI'm glad Fedora's supported though...20:56
GeneralAntillesfrals, OK, before I file this one I wanted to ask you.20:57
GeneralAntillesfrals, I got a new MMS yesterday. I tapped it 3 times to open it (impatient :P).20:57
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GeneralAntillesfrals, first time sent up the loading banner, second and third times did nothing.20:57
GeneralAntillesfrals, but when the message loaded, I looked at it and tapped the back button it sent me back to the message again.20:58
fralsand now you cant view it, ye?20:58
fralsoh, cool ;D20:58
GeneralAntillesfrals, so it opened the message 3 times and added a new one on the end of the breadcrumb trail for each.20:58
GeneralAntillesRelated: drop the hildon banner notifications.20:58
GeneralAntillesDoesn't follow spec, etc. :P20:58
fralsfile it, i need to work some on the notifications at some point20:59
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AethaerynI'm trying to install the SDK, but it the Next button is grayed out unless I uncheck "Install Nokia Binaries"21:00
* frals is looking forward to a bug report without all the fields changed21:00
AethaerynDoes that mean they don't want me to install the Nokia binaries?21:00
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LuciusMarehi, so how's it with the 032 flashlight? is the "bork-after-first-use" bug fixed?21:01
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GeneralAntillesfrals, you want some versions and milestones?21:02
fralsnah, thanks thou21:03
ShadowJKAethaeryn, maybe there's license you need to agree to?21:03
ShadowJKor scroll through21:03
Spiliohi there are some problems by using the devel repositories like any other?21:03
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AethaerynShadowJK: I did check I agree... Maybe their patented psychic mind-reading technology (for the N920, of course) told them I didn't really read it?21:05
AethaerynI'll just install it without the binaries21:06
AethaerynPossibly I was missing some dependency or something, but really I just want to see if certain applications work without tweaking21:06
AethaerynAnd installation failed anyway :P21:06
* GeneralAntilles wonders why is slow again.21:07
* RST38h wandered into some really long Java N900 thread21:07
AethaerynSo much for Fedora support...21:07
RST38hWeird people.21:07
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AethaerynThat's okay, I get to play around with gnome-shell development build a lot easier than other distros can. :P21:07
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Stskeepsah, god bless bad coding21:08
Stskeepsmy openness report forgot all the components that were between > 80% and < 99% openness21:08
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cehteh\o/ awesome map-caching with polipo21:10
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* Spilio se despide y cierra o/21:11
LuciusMareHas anybody tried connecting a n900 with arduino over the usb port?21:11
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LuciusMareOR, more accurate question - can i use the usb port on n900 to send and recieve voltage on each pin?21:12
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mashiaraLuciusMare, I don't think you can get that low-level access to the port21:14
mashiaraor do you have some sort of USB<->ADC adapter21:14
mashiaraAnalog-Digital Converter21:15
SpeedEvilLuciusMare: there is no low-level access.21:15
mashiaraIn fact I don't think *any* USB chipset allows that low-level access21:15
SpeedEvilLuciusMare: you would need to use - unless you fix host mode - which seems plausible but has not been done - a I2C-USB host device on the arduino21:16
cehtehfigure the jtag or serial bus out21:16
cehtehehm and whats the 3rd connector under the battery? another usb? hostmode even? :)21:17
LuciusMarei was told that the serial bus is under battery and for debugging use only21:17
mashiarahang on, I need to dig out an old link21:17
cehtehwell yes .. as in "how do you access the thing with the battery inserted?"21:18
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SpeedEvilcehteh: thin cables would work21:20
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mashiarathere was also some thread where someone had made their own "jig" to access the serial port under the battery while the device is running21:20
mashiaranokia care has these special jigs for it21:21
SpeedEvilI need to fill in that at some point with findings about the several ports21:21
SpeedEvilI haven't gotten round to it yet21:21
LuciusMaregeeze, why can't they just make it easier for us?21:21
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mashiaraI wonder about the USB host mode though21:23
mashiaraN770 didn't suplly power (OTG) but host mode could be enabled simply21:24
Stskeepsmashiara: jig for n900?21:24
mashiaraAFAIUnderstand N900 has slightly more complex problem here21:24
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mashiarastskeeps: ? please eloborate21:25
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, charging and the USB consortium.21:25
LuciusMareusb consortuium? O_o21:25
GeneralAntillesLuciusMare, yes, the one that decides whether you can put a USB logo on the box or not.21:25
LuciusMarei know what usb consortium is, but what is the exact problem?21:26
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GeneralAntillesSome sort of hardware issue that meant they couldn't just ship as-is and ship a fix later.21:27
GeneralAntillesAt least and be allowed to put a USB logo on the box.21:27
greenflymy (limited) understanding to it is that the ability to charge over USB and the ability to have USB host mode on the same port are at odds21:27
SpeedEvilThe exact problem at the moment seems - as far as I've investigated it - that there is no software support for properly turning round the host port. I need to find time to finish reading the datasheet and kernel.21:27
pupnik_honestly, i wouldnt use host mode.  never did on 77021:27
SpeedEvilThe best case is that you will require an external powered hub/cable though21:27
greenflyto me the only place it might be useful is if one could eventually get full-definition video out of it21:28
SpeedEvil(but you'd need an adaptor anyway - as nothing will plug into a microb)21:28
Stskeepsmashiara: just if someone made a custom jig for n900 yet that isn't a nokia one21:28
greenflyso you could have a sort of usb docking station, as it were21:28
SpeedEvilgreenfly: USB2 video adaptors may work. I question if they will be fast enough for high speed video.21:28
greenflySpeedEvil: as long as they'd be faster than the current x11vnc + wireless...21:29
SpeedEvilIf the hardware support to put video onto them isn't there. The CPU is quite slow - for dealing with HD video.21:29
Kegetysyou can use usb joysticks with it for mobile gaming: ;)21:29
SpeedEvilyou can dovideo over usb-net too21:29
pupnik_it would suck to game with a cable pluggd in21:30
SpeedEvilKegetys: well - you can use wiimotes right now21:30
GeneralAntillesKegetys, or just get yourself a SIXAXIS21:30
pupnik_youd be pulling the device around21:30
greenflyI think usb-net is going to ultimately be the solution for most of these things21:30
mashiarastskeeps: Yes, but it didn't look like a solution that would last for very long, I'll see if I find the link21:30
Stskeepsmashiara: mostly cos it would be nice to point community hackers to a solution for n900 :)21:30
pupnik_the PS3 six axxis plus tv-out should be great21:31
SpeedEvilThe most ideal case would be if there was a USB host bus under the battery. That seems unlikely at best though.21:31
SpeedEvilI2C would be fun too.21:31
VDVsxX-Fade, something is really broken in the package interface, someone uploaded a game today, begged for votes and the game is already in extras :(21:31
SpeedEvilAnd is more likely.21:31
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Triztto whome should you whine if you want nfs4 support in the n900's kernel?21:33
lcukwhich game?21:34
mashiarastskeeps: can't find the link (should have bookmarked it, or maybe I'm just delusional)21:34
mashiaraTritzt: build the module yourself ?21:35
greenflyTrizt: don't whine, but if you go to there's a thread on the custom kernel that enables iptables, ext4,reiser,xfs, etc. support. that would be a good place to make a request21:35
mashiarain fact I think I have seen some nfs related modules21:36
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greenflyyeah it's possible someone's already done it21:36
mashiara"seen" as in seen in the app-manager21:36
LuciusMarei am sure i would use the usb host, i would love it21:36
Triztthere is the nfs module, but that is just nfs <=321:36
lcukVDVsx, so wheres the dupe?21:36
lcukand is it OSS21:36
mashiaraUSB host even without power (ie using powered hub) would be great for HW hackers21:36
mashiaraTrizt: scroll down to how to change kernel feature X21:37
lcukmashiara, the hardware hackers seem to be doing ok with bluetooth modules21:37
lcukallows extra things too21:37
VDVsxlcuk, well, 1o days of quarantine like the rest of the packages, also the packages doesn't respect the q&a rules21:37
mashiarasure, I actually have some bluetooth modules laying around somewhere... now where did I put them ?21:37
lcuksilicon heaven21:38
lcukthe place where all the calculators go to die21:38
pupnik_i used nfs for a long time and it sucks when losing connection21:38
Triztmashiara; feels like a lot of work for one tiny option21:39
lcukTrizt, some people climb mountains "because they are there"21:40
mashiaraTrizt: that build a whole kernel +modules + flasher debs21:40
mashiarayou could just get the source and compile just the module you need21:40
mashiaraprovided it does not require any extra symbols in the kernel proper (like nf_conntrack does, grr)21:40
TriztMmm... it may :(21:41
mashiaraIn that case you need to flash a custom kernel too21:41
mashiaraIMO the scripts I have made for the mobilehotspot project make it rather easy and quick21:42
mashiara(certainly easier than remembering to do all the little things by hand)21:42
mashiaraof course compiling the armel kernel takes almost an hour on my virtualmachine running the SDK21:42
mashiaragotta love emulation...21:43
SpeedEvilI do wonder what it'd be natively.21:43
SpeedEvilI suspect about half that21:43
SpeedEvilmaby 3/421:43
TriztI lost graphics on mine when I made a distro upgrade, really wish there could be an ebuild instead21:43
greenflywonder how much custom software something like this requires21:44
mashiaraprobably not that much21:45
mashiaradepending of course on the phone...21:45
greenflyyeah, I mean it looked like they were using a blackberry bold21:45
greenflywhich doesn't have usb host mode21:46
SpeedEvilyou use bluetooth21:46
SpeedEviland you're done21:46
greenflySpeedEvil: umm BT video?21:46
SpeedEviloh - missed hte video21:46
greenflyvideo is the main thing for me, the rest is easy21:47
LuciusMarewoot, nexus one got hacked so it geys usb host? >:(21:47
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wazd"WinMo 7 Starter will have conversations limited to 3 minutes."21:47
greenflywazd: heh are they using gizmo or something?21:48
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wazdthat's a joke from Engadget :)21:49
wazdbut damn funny joke it is :D21:49
hcarregawhat about ovi store update for n900?21:49
hcarregawhen acess do ovi tell me to go to app manager21:49
hcarregabut then nothing shows on update window21:50
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Stskeepsevening RevdKathy21:53
RevdKathyeven Stskeeps21:53
RevdKathyhow's tricks?21:53
RST38hwazd: the important question is whether it will receive calls =)21:54
StskeepsRevdKathy: going out for some beers tonight with business contacts, waiting for the missus to get ready :P21:55
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RevdKathySounds like fun, Stskeeps. I am aiming for an early night. Am finally on a bit of leave and have been studying too much21:56
RevdKathyGot me a bacardi and coke though - no work or worship in the morning. :)21:56
hcarregaovi update21:57
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RevdKathyI looked for the ovi update and didn't find anything21:57
hcarregame to21:58
hcarrega shows nothing21:58
hcarregamyabe tomorrow21:58
pupnik_is there a way for someone to send 100MB files to my N900:22:04
pupnik_skype on n900 does not allow file transfer22:04
SpeedEvilor ftp22:04
pupnik_friend is too dumb to open his dcc port22:05
pupnik_hmm  ftp eh22:05
SpeedEvilftp server on your n900?22:05
pupnik_not bad22:05
SpeedEvilor rapidshare22:05
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MikeJBDoes the n900 have a microSD slot? Though I know the HD is massive, I'm just curious...22:07
Stskeepsunder the cover22:07
ArifSDHC even !22:07
tank-manSDHC or microSDHC ?22:08
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ArifmicroSDHC :P22:09
MikeJBDoes it play music?22:09
SpeedEvilso you can do 48G now, and 64G in a couple of months22:09
Arifwho uses ogg? :P22:09
MikeJBI'd use ogg if digital music players supported it :P22:10
ArifThe N900 does22:10
mashiaraMikeJB: there is separate "application" package that adds ogg support but I have no actually tested it22:10
Arifbut I see no reason why you'd use it :p22:10
Dantonicmikejb it does support ogg however not out of the box...22:10
DantonicI use that package... but I have an issue with it22:10
ArifAAC+ is better :P22:10
Dantonicthe cpu utilization is not optimized22:10
MikeJBArif: Ogg is one of the things I agree with the FSF on.22:10
Dantonicit uses up more CPU when playing ogg than when playing AAC or mp322:11
mashiaradantonic: I think the MP3 decoder uses the DSP22:11
Arifbut yeah ogg support is as far away as a few ticks :P22:11
SpeedEvilmashiara: nope. It uses the CPU - and probably not actually very efficiently.22:11
Dantonicogg is there tho22:11
SpeedEvilThere are better codecs out there22:11
Arifthe tags aren't supported fully though22:11
SpeedEvilI mean - better decoder software for mp322:11
ShadowJKi uses libvorbis libogg, but ffmpeg has its own CPU encoder that's more optimized than xiph's official22:11
Dantonicthere is Mplayer that plays ogg very efficiently22:11
Dantonichowever there isnt a great front end for it yet22:12
ShadowJKMPlayer uses ffmpeg's vorbis decoder by default I think.22:12
Dantonicit does22:12
MikeJBEh, I guess the reason for using ogg is that it's the best free competitor to mp3 in the sense of popularity.22:12
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mashiaraSpeedEvile: Ok, I was mistaken then22:12
MikeJBAnd popularity means everything because if the format is popular it usually gets updated enough to surpass competitors.22:12
Arifhave you tried eAAC+ :p22:12
Dantonicit also plays flac very well and efficiently22:12
MikeJBTake a look at how USB originally sucked, but 2.0 and 3.0 are taking care of the speed issues now.22:12
ShadowJKSupposedly ffmpeg can encode flac better than the official flac encoder too (in the lunatic modes of both)22:13
ArifUSB1 is awesome22:13
Arifwith its 600KB/s22:13
pupnik_ogg sounds good22:13
Dantonicthe only inefficient one at this time is ogg.. I'm disappointed about it because I converted my whole collection to ogg :(22:13
DantonicI hope they can get ffmpeg to work with the defaul player soon22:13
ShadowJKIt obviously works because it was benchmarked22:13
ArifFLAC doesn't show tags in the media player22:13
Arifso I had to convert to mp3 :P22:14
Arifit only showed the album art for some reason22:14
MikeJBIf I got a smartphone that was good enough to the point where I could ditch my iPod, I definitely would convert my mp3 collection to ogg22:14
MikeJBI already have some ogg, since Fedora rips from CDs in ogg format by default.22:14
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MikeJBArif: Not even a touch screen one :P22:14
MikeJBThough that's on purpose, since they don't support Linux very well.22:15
DantonicMikeJB like I said ogg is there but it needs some better support22:15
ArifI've used my phones as mp3 players since the 6230 came out22:15
Dantonicit will still play fine, just instead of your battery lasting 20+ hours playing music it will last 1022:15
MikeJBConvergence is the only chance of killing the iPod... it's such a large monopoly on the music player industry, to the point where almost all MP3 players look like the iPod (with the wheel, etc.)22:15
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MikeJBNo wonder Apple needed the iPhone to take off so badly... they could probably see that trend too22:16
DantonicHarmattan is supposed to have built in ogg support22:16
ArifI'm all alone as someone who never had warm feelings for a rotten apple22:16
Dantonicbut who knows maybe they'll bring it sooner :P22:16
DantonicI hope22:16
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villagernah, I never saw how anyone in their right minds could ever buy anything from apple either22:16
Arifit's so expensive, for less than the competitoin!22:17
MikeJBArif: Apple is about 2x as popular in the US as everywhere else, if you look at market share of Macs in US vs. global average. I'm sure its mindshare crosses over to devices too22:17
MikeJBSo in the US, especially among young people, you don't buy an MP3 player, you buy an iPod22:17
Arifoh that's why22:17
Arifover here it's not THAT bad22:17
MikeJBJust like you don't buy tissues, you buy Kleenex, and you don't photocopy, you Xerox :P22:17
Arifnever heard of that22:17
villagerwell, everybody knows americans are stupid22:17
MikeJBArif: A long time ago, they invented the GUI :P22:18
Arifcrackberries are more popular nowadays xD22:18
villagera large proportion of them at least...22:18
ArifOh great. then I love them22:18
MikeJBvillager: Have you ever watched the news in the US?22:18
MikeJBCNN was pratically a giant ad for Twitter a few months ago when I tried to watch it.22:18
Arifis it as magazineish as I hear it is?22:18
pupnik_nokia should revise the microusb cable and charger to have a shorter lead22:18
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MikeJBI wouldn't be surprised if Twitter was paying and sponsoring the show.22:18
villagerMikeJB: a couple of times, but since I don't live there, then usually no22:19
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MikeJBThey had a scrolling Twitter ticker at the bottom, even.22:19
ShadowJKshorter lead? why? it's not long enough to reach everywhere in my bedroom as it is!22:19
ShadowJKneeds to be longer22:19
MikeJBI don't think you understand how ingrained consumerism is in the US22:19
ArifNokia should've put better speakers in the N90022:19
Ariflike the 5800 or N95 8GB ones22:19
ShadowJKLike the N810 ones :)22:20
Arifit's just a cracklefest now22:20
MikeJBThe N900 isn't popular in the US because Nokia didn't buy a Super Bowl ad... :P22:20
Dantoniclike the N800 ones!!22:20
ShadowJKmine doesn't crackle22:20
ShadowJKthe N800 ones are worse than N810, which is surprising because the N800 are forward facing22:20
Arifmine crackles on lower bitrate22:20
Ariflike radio22:20
ShadowJK(I have both)22:20
ShadowJKI've never heard crackle22:20
Arifif you put it on max22:20
MikeJBIf Nokia bought a Super Bowl ad with either (1) cute animals, (2) pantless people (don't ask me why, but that was a trend this year), or (3) some random celebrity endorsement... it'd have a larger market share in the US22:20
ArifI've never used an N800 or N810 :O22:21
ShadowJKMy issue is more that the volume doesn't go low enough22:21
pupnik_N810 speakers kick ass22:21
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DantonicShadowJK, really I thought the opposite.. the N800 were supposed to be more powerful22:21
ArifMikeJB, you watch hairy pantless men? ew =P22:21
ShadowJKso what? power doesn't mean anything22:21
villagerMikeJB: I don't believe Nokia actually intends for the N900 to be a mainstream phone, so they wouldn't advertise it like that22:22
ShadowJKthe N810 speakers *sound* better22:22
ArifThey should've just gone with the 5800 ones22:22
Arifthose were sweet22:22
ShadowJKI don't care which one of them can be louder, I could just stab myself in the ear if I want to go deaf22:22
MikeJBand one other...22:22
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: really?22:23
ShadowJKreally what?22:23
MikeJBflash is the only thing that really lags my browser22:23
MikeJBso it'll take a minute to find the other one22:23
SpeedEvilSpeakers are a huge compromise.22:23
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SpeedEvilThere is nothing magical about them - the more space you have to devote - the better the sound (for constant money)22:23
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: n810 > n90022:23
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ShadowJKdockane_, speakers? yeah22:24
ShadowJKheadphone output? no way22:24
ShadowJKN900 has a few magnitudes better headphone output22:24
Arifthe headphone output is better than the previous phones I had22:24
Arifexcept the N9122:24
ShadowJKThe n810 speakers have the same noise as the n810 headphone output, but typically on speakers I have volume somewhere at quarter/half anyway, so the noise is mostly masked by the music22:24
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: still suboptimal for hp out. too much bass. for spk I dunno22:25
MikeJBArif: <- the other one22:25
ShadowJKYeah, it's bass heavy :/22:25
Arifoh, that's even gayer22:25
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MikeJBArif: Yes. So pantless was a theme.22:26
Arifif it was females there on the other hand...22:26
DocScrutinizer51though I got the impression a lot of quality flaws on 900 hpout is due to PA/whatever mangling. not HW22:27
omicron23hi there. I am trying to install the maemo sdk. I am stuck while running ./maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh22:27
MikeJBArif: <- I think she's pantless in this one22:27
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, that's possible22:27
omicron23there is an error indicating that my normal user is not able to execute scratchbox login.22:27
MikeJBof course, the phone she's advertizing sucks.22:27
ShadowJKmplayer can bypass pulse atleast22:27
MikeJBIt's not even good by Android standards.22:28
omicron23but my user is in the sbox group22:28
MikeJBSo that's the Super Bowl in the US: bad commercials advertizing good stuff and good commercials advertizing bad stuff22:28
Arifwe as downloaders don't see any of those22:28
pupnik_i wish n900 could beam a console screen into my eye22:28
DocScrutinizer51there's also that legend about N900 shooting own spkr onn high vol. So PA has a special ALV which for sure would flaw the HP if active for this out as well22:28
MikeJBArif: But there you go, for some reason 2010 is the year of the pantless commercials. I wonder what focus group thought that up.22:29
ShadowJKpupnik, yeah I think that's the next step.. implants or goggles22:29
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I remember someone complaining the N900 audio (both spk and headphone) is heavily compressed22:29
Arifmaybe they were out of pants22:30
ShadowJKdynamic range compression22:30
MikeJBArif: <- one of the few ads I actually liked... note that the robot is not wearing any pants :P22:30
DocScrutinizer51thougz, due to closed source nature of this subsystem you never know if they did some tweaks to it on PR1.122:31
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* DocScrutinizer51 wonders if Nokia could publish the commit logs for closed source components at least22:32
ShadowJKtry bugzilla? :)22:32
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* Arif is waiting for the only bug he reported to be fixed22:33
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ShadowJKfile a bug report asking for changelogs for the closed source components22:33
DocScrutinizer51dunno if there's any commitlogs. or do you suggest to open ticket for nokia to disclose commitlogs?22:33
DocScrutinizer51maybe eventually I,ll do22:33
ShadowJKor I guess you could file a bug asking for a way to switch off pa-rape on headphone22:34
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DocScrutinizer51that's two rather distinct topics22:34
LuciusMareokay, i just found i have no idea how n900 works, no idea about the hw, i didnt even know what i2c is.. where should i start?22:34
ShadowJKBut that's a way to get changelogs, when status in bugzilla changes with a version number attached22:35
LuciusMareI already had read about it22:36
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Arifanyone know how to reset alsamixer if I screw stuff up?22:36
mashiaraLuciusMare the HW pages linked earlier are a good start22:36
DocScrutinizer51LuciusMare: heh. maybe you'd find helpful?22:37
LuciusMaremashiara: i only have noticed hacking22:37
LuciusMareDocScrutinizer51: maybe, thanks22:37
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DocScrutinizer51LuciusMare: as for N900 there,s NO way to understand about all that - at least not for ordinary mortals22:38
LuciusMaresomeone had to design it22:38
DocScrutinizer51yeah, but that someone has signed a NDA22:38
mashiaraare you suggesting Nokia people are not mortals ?22:39
infobotI'm not allowed to tell you22:39
DocScrutinizer51~wtf NDA22:39
infobotGee...  I don't know what NDA means...22:40
jophishEvening all.22:40
mashiaraI've been wondering about the 4pin audio port22:40
DocScrutinizer51non disclosure agreement22:40
mashiaraor AV port22:40
DocScrutinizer51so waht?22:40
mashiarahow they exactly handle the headset vs video adapter etc22:41
LuciusMareyeah,wondered about that too22:41
mashiaraie, do they perhaps expode I2C bus there...22:41
infobotmashiara meant: ie, do they perhaps expose I2C bus there...22:41
Arifit checks the pins?22:42
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DocScrutinizerArif: basically yes. It checks the resistance from e.g mic pin to GND22:43
Arifthe N95 always asked what it was22:43
DocScrutinizerfor headset that's <4k, for AV video on same pin the cable has to be >>than 4k22:43
LuciusMarethis might also sound stupid,but22:44
DocScrutinizer4k being a arbitrary number here. Not backed by any spec lookup22:44
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Arifit gets the point over doesn't it ;p22:44
LuciusMareis it possible to "add" a mic to an already existing, fully functional headphones?22:44
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ArifI wonder if Nokia'll add support for the remote22:45
DocScrutinizera lot of "headsets" work that way: 4pin-plug to a small case with mic and 3pin receptacle for ordinary headphones22:45
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timeless_mbpis it bad that i can't play the mtorola super bowl commerciral mikejb linked to earlier on my mbp without it stuttering, hanging, etc.?22:47
ShadowJKIf you want to add a mic, I'd suggest you look at AD-54. It's basically an extension coord with mic at the end.. you plug headphone into it22:47
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, welcome to flash :)22:47
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, flash?22:48
ShadowJKwhat would it be :)22:48
LuciusMareShadowJK: that is clever22:48
GeneralAntillesDunno, ever with my E5520 Mac Pro Flash still manages to slow things down.22:48
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GeneralAntillesSo, no, I doubt it's bad.22:48
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: my mac is dying (actually, its hdd is dying), so the system just hangs perioically anyway22:49
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Intel X2522:49
ShadowJKor Vertex Agility when on budget22:50
ShadowJKer, OCZ agility22:50
GeneralAntillesThing is like freaking greased lightning.22:50
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* GeneralAntilles would go with X25V over OCZ22:52
* timeless_mbp grumbles22:52
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, yeah22:52
ShadowJKIt's only like twice as fast22:52
ShadowJKbut Vertex & Agility are still a few magnitudes faster than the jmicron stuff22:52
GeneralAntillesTrue, but still, getting into a MacBook Pro is kind of a pain.22:53
GeneralAntillesMight as well do it right the first time.22:53
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DocScrutinizer(nokia AV) also refer to
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mashiaraYeah read those, looks like i2c is not available there (though I have a bus-pirate so I could just check it, haven't gotten around that far yet though)22:55
ShadowJKThere is atleast 2 different protocols for the headset buttons22:56
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JaffaEvening, all22:56
ShadowJKand the one that is fancier causes audible distortion to the audio in headphones :)22:56
* Arif hands ShadowJK a bluetooth headset22:58
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tYp3hello, ihad a problem with my wifi22:58
slonopotamuswhat's that crap? 'how to install skype on n900, how to install facebook on n900, how to install google talk on n900'... let's maybe add "how to install wifi/hw kb/camera/charger on n900"?22:58
lingling92wtf dude chill out... Oo22:59
ShadowJKArif, I haven't been able to find any decent ones22:59
ShadowJKArif, 3.5mm output, 10h battery life, pause button22:59
slonopotamuscharger howto should be the best one :)22:59
timeless_mbpi can't even get it to respond long enough for me to click the 'replay' button in the youtube video22:59
ArifI use normal headphones anyway23:00
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tYp3over 3g i can download from ovi-store, but not over wifi23:00
tYp3any idea?23:00
ArifI can't listen to internet radio over wifi but I can on 3G23:00
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genevenmy microb is screwed up. how do I do something like reinstall microb?23:01
lingling92same problem here .. :(     like typ323:01
tYp3lingling92 freak23:01
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SpeedEvilgeneven: I would try blowing away ~/.microb23:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: my sony isn't that bad23:03
florianhi all23:03
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geneventhanks for the suggestion speedevil i,ll try it23:04
timeless_mbpgeneven: screwed up how?23:05
lingling92anyone knows a pptp vpn client?23:05
SpeedEvilIt will of course nuke bookmarks23:05
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genevenwhenever i go to a link in talk i just get two lines23:06
genevensaying reset and a link23:06
Arifdoes the creator of worldtv99 ever come here?23:06
genevenso i can't read maemo threads :)23:07
GeneralAntillesArif, no.23:08
Arifhe needs to fix it :P23:08
GeneralAntillesArif, contact him on Talk.23:08
ArifI did23:08
Arifwaiting for a reply23:08
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geneveni'm not worried about mookmarks23:09
genevensay bookmarks23:09
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GeneralAntillesI hope that guy doesn't make it a habit of coming here. <_<23:10
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: foul mood today? :-)23:11
Arifwho owns this place anyway?23:11
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ArifI only see chanserv with op23:11
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, that guy trolls Talk non-stop.23:11
woglinde~seen jebba23:11
infobotjebba is currently on #maemo (1d 59m 25s), last said: 'p37ff?'.23:11
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, little bundle of negativity.23:11
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, constant thorn in my side for the past two years. ;)23:12
DocScrutinizerooh that's long for sure23:12
GeneralAntillesArif, maemo.org23:12
GeneralAntillesArif, which essentially means X-Fade.23:12
Arifyou'll get a lot of n00bs now the N900 is out ;)23:12
GeneralAntillesSo don't get on his bad side. *g*23:12
* Arif hides23:13
DocScrutinizerArif: /msg chanserv access #maemo list23:14
ArifI didn't know users could see that23:14
pupnik_i like GeneralAntilles' foul moods23:15
Arifanyone know how to extract/look through the crash reporter files?23:15
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kuriiridoes someone have any idea when fixed version of dataplan monitor is coming out?23:24
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kuriirireally annoying to see that i've downloaded "-1373860380.000 B"23:25
Arifyou leecher =o23:26
mashiaraconsidering it should be fixable by just casting the value to correct size uint you could just patch it yourself with the SDK23:26
Arifha! I have no idea what you just said23:27
moo__Arif: then consider study some programming23:27
ArifEw, no23:27
kuriiriyeah.. but considering that if it's fixable just by doing that, why doesn't the author do it23:28
* SpeedEvil tries astrophotography on the n900 for giggles.23:28
ArifI did for 2 years in high school23:28
mashiaradetails like unsigned integers are a bit eww indeed23:28
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mashiaraprobably the author is doing other things as well and can't be bothered to go trough the release process for a cosmetic fix only23:29
ArifI also found out something just as boring called SQL23:29
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, fireworks can be seen on the n900 camera.. auroras not :/23:29
FIQN900 is (finally) ordered. :D23:29
FIQit will arrive in... around 1 month.23:29
Arifyou have some weird postal service there23:30
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I'm trying averaging to see if I can pull out a starfield - well - bright moving stars23:30
FIQstill, it's ordered and the wait is finally over! :D23:30
FIQArif, no23:30
SpeedEvilWhere are you again FIQ?23:30
FIQbut it were no N900's left anywhere23:30
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, I tried with imagemagick's composite with ADD or something...23:30
Arifdid you order it from deal extreme or something?23:30
FIQSpeedEvil, swe23:30
ShadowJKI suspect you need to record complete blackness too to get a noise profile23:31
mashiaraKuriiri, Arif if you think signed vs unsigned is eww, then the dirty details of floating point are really going to mess you up23:31
SpeedEvilShadowJK: it's not especially great - and will be more of a feat of image processing than actually getting a usable optical result out23:31
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ShadowJKbecause some pixels are consistently brighter than other pixels, and that consistent noise should be possible to filter out23:31
SpeedEvilthat too, yes.23:31
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kuriirimashiara: it's just that now everyone has to fix it by himself23:31
Arifmashiara, yes, the weather is nice here o.o;23:31
kuriiriand there is also bugreport about it23:32
kuriiriand no comment from author at all23:32
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FIQi've not so much linux experience (but i'm not a completly noob, I've used ubuntu for some months), guess N900 will be pretty easy to use anyway? :p23:32
FIQi don't think i will have problems at all23:32
Arifno you won't23:32
ArifI don't23:32
FIQah, just what i though then. :)23:32
Arifand I have no idea what mashiara is on about :D23:32
SpeedEvilShadowJK: anyway - currently on picture 13 - PNGs - of 200 brightframes23:32
mashiarawhat where ?23:33
* mashiara is lost in the woods23:33
Arifyour program talk gibberish from just above23:33
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lingling92hello, anyone knows an other openvpn-client for n900 than "openvpn"?23:33
Tanuvaare ovi maps version numbers consistent regarding Symbian vs. Maemo?23:33
Arifthey're not23:34
ShadowJKTanuva, it's different software23:34
ShadowJKnot a port23:34
mashiaraoh... I just had to fix again other peoples mistakes with floating point numbers a few days back23:34
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: awesome23:34
ShadowJKthere's also ovi maps on the web, which is different from s60 ovi maps and maemo ovi maps23:34
mashiaraflaoting point is not the same as decimal23:34
Tanuvaokay, so I'm not going to worry because of having maps 1.01 instead of 3.0 :)23:34
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Arifthe maemo one doesn't have voice though23:35
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I don't really expect it to work - but... :)23:35
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: how will you do the img processing?23:35
mashiaraanyways if the author of the dataplan monitor is nowhere to be seen one could always fork the project23:35
Tanuvaand it calculated a strange route some days ago, too...23:35
mashiara(supposing the sources are available but I would think so)23:35
Arifcan't someone else take the source, fix it, and release it :P23:35
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mashiarathat someone else would have to be someone who cares (for example because they have the same problem)23:36
ShadowJKI think the counts reported in ifconfig wrap around at 4gig23:37
mashiarashadowjk: this value comes from gconf23:37
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mashiarathough It seesm gconf doesn't have concept of unsigned integer anyway23:38
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: probably even with a good syncronous stand you still want to do some sort of antijitter. And you need a datatype for the img data that allows adding 200 png without overruns23:38
mashiarabut it seems the integet type is "large enough"23:38
mashiaradamn I'm typoing a lot lately...23:39
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: btw antijitter is a good thing as it also eliminates some of the atmospheric distort23:40
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: maybe try to adjust each image for a bright star to be same pos pixel-wise23:41
ShadowJKif he can see any stars at all with just one image23:42
FIQ~karma fiq23:42
infobotfiq has karma of 123:42
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Arif~karma Arif23:43
infobotarif has neutral karma23:43
wazd~karma wazd23:43
infobotwazd has karma of 123:43
DocScrutinizeryup. otherwise he needs to substract the current immage from the interim result and move to minimize the sigma over whole pict23:43
wazd~karma wazd23:43
infobotwazd has karma of 123:43
* Arif wants karma too23:43
DocScrutinizerthen add current pict after moving23:43
Arifor something23:44
* Tanuva doesn't need no karma23:44
* Arif throws a quince at Tanuva23:44
FIQ~karma tanuva23:44
infobottanuva has neutral karma23:44
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FIQ~karma tanuva23:45
infobottanuva has neutral karma23:45
FIQ~karma tanuva23:45
* DocScrutinizer sighs23:45
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: fixed mount. Simply trying avg(darkframes)-avg(lightframes)23:46
ShadowJKhm.. what?23:46
ShadowJKwhat are dark frames and what are light frames in this context?23:46
DocScrutinizererr yes. what?23:46
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RevdKathyGoodnight all!23:48
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Arifis there an english version of this channel? :p23:49
Tanuvawho needs that?23:50
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Arifknowing what people are talking about would be nice23:50
Tanuvalight and dark frames of course!23:50
mashiaraTMo and #maemo are both a bit tech-heavy23:51
mashiaraI guess #maemo-n00bs would not gather much following...23:51
ArifI'd be the only one there23:51
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GeneralAntillesProbably with segregating like that is that people with the knowledge and skills generally avoid the n00bzone.23:52
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mashiarathats why good people like you hang out at both23:52
mashiaraand can point those that avoid n00bzone in general there when someone actually has an interesting question23:53
ArifI seem to have 6 crash reports since I installed the crash reporter yesterday23:54
ShadowJKArif, browserd?23:54
Arifmedia player23:54
DocScrutinizer51vme thought this chan would be the noob zone X-P23:55
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ArifI guess my problem will be fixed in Maemo 6 too23:55
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ShadowJKN900-typo :)23:56
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mashiarait seems colloguy doesn't care where you right-click to close, it always closes the active tab...23:57
infobotmashiara meant: it seems colloquy doesn't care where you right-click to close, it always closes the active tab...23:57
ShadowJKArif, found the relevent bugzilla bug for that then?23:58
ArifI filed a bug :p23:58
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ShadowJKFor media player crashing? Put the bug # in the extra info you can add when stuff crashes23:58
ShadowJKin crash-reporter23:58
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ArifI just had a "report crashes" button23:59
ShadowJKthough I think it needs a reboot after installing crash-reporter before the popup with comments starts working23:59
Arifand then it sent them23:59

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