IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-02-01

inz	red [red@unaffiliated/red] has joined #maemo	00:00
wazd	Xisdibik: no, I think that's enough :) Thanks a lot	00:00
red	inz: and I take it there was no changing host quit message just before?	00:00
wazd	Xisdibik: oh, opened statusbar :)	00:00
inz	red, no, just before was leaving message	00:00
red	good, works like a charm then	00:00
red	SSL connection, cloaked hostname and autoidentifying working as expected ^^	00:01
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inz	I prefer vanity domain names over cloaks =)	00:01
red	now those bastards in Sweden won't be reading what I'm jabbering in IRC, unless they are on the channel that is ;)	00:01
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Xisdibik	wazd: OK	00:01
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Xisdibik	wazd: http://imagebin.org/82755	00:03
Xisdibik	wazd: http://imagebin.org/82756	00:04
Xisdibik	wazd: http://imagebin.org/82757	00:04
mece	is there a good way to get dependencies from my list of imported modules in my python app?	00:05
wazd	Xisdibik: great, that's enough :)	00:05
Xisdibik	hey wazd did you get that background from the Win 7 beta?	00:05
wazd	Xisdibik: ta	00:05
wazd	Xisdibik: mm, nope	00:05
Xisdibik	looks really similar	00:05
Xisdibik	minus the fish	00:06
* Stskeeps hides from wazd		00:06
wazd	Xisdibik: well, it looks like underwater	00:06
wazd	Xisdibik: :)	00:06
Xisdibik	ah, and it is different, the one for win 7 was light coming from the top	00:06
Xisdibik	:)	00:06
Xisdibik	I do like how the buttons/task bar etc look in the theme	00:07
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Stskeeps	Xisdibik: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/the-funny-thing/	00:07
wazd	Xisdibik: good :)	00:07
wazd	Stskeeps: :D	00:07
Xisdibik	:D	00:08
Xisdibik	that was funny	00:08
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Xisdibik	kimitake: you still around?	00:18
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mece	anyone want to volunteer to test the dependencies on my comic widget?	00:22
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Ken-Young	mece, You just wont someone to try to install it?	00:24
mece	Ken-Young, yes :)	00:24
Ken-Young	I'll bite. Where can I find it?	00:24
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mece	Ken-Young, https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=1276	00:24
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kimitake	Xisdibik, yes	00:26
mece	Ken-Young, there is one issue that I'm aware of. Well a couple, but one major one. It will become invisible after a reboot, so you have to remove it and add it again after that. FYI.	00:27
Ken-Young	mece, Didn't install. It needs hildon-desktop-python-loader, and that is not installed on my N900.	00:29
mece	ok, well that's in the dependencies.	00:29
mece	Ken-Young, try, as root, apt-get install --fix-missing	00:31
mece	and see what happens	00:31
Ken-Young	mece, OK	00:31
* mece is a little excited to see what happens.		00:32
derf	kimitake: Would you take patches to enable skk as an alternative to anthy?	00:32
Ken-Young	OK, I had to do an apt-get -f install, then the --fix-missing, but after that I could install your .drb .	00:33
Xisdibik	kimitake: have you used his scim, and did you get it working?	00:33
mece	Ken-Young, does the program work then? That's the real question.	00:34
kimitake	derf: I'm not familiar with skk...	00:34
Stskeeps	random question, is your SCIM's usable without keyboard?	00:34
Ken-Young	mece, I don't see a new menu item - how can I test it?	00:34
kimitake	Xisdibik, what do you mean his scim?	00:35
mece	Ken-Young, it's a desktop widget	00:35
derf	kimitake: http://openlab.ring.gr.jp/skk/	00:35
Xisdibik	the one you mentioned. maemocjk's scrim ;) guess its not really a him, but that one ;)	00:35
Ken-Young	mece, I don't see a new widget on my desktop.	00:35
mece	Ken-Young, and it's not in the add widget list?	00:36
kimitake	derf, it seems there is scim-skk, so him-scim could use skk also.	00:36
Ken-Young	mece, Nope.	00:36
derf	kimitake: Right.	00:36
mece	Ken-Young, right, actually, I think there is a problem with the python loader thingie.	00:36
Ken-Young	mece, What exactly should the widget be called in the add widget list?	00:37
mece	Ken-Young, after installing that, it might need a reboot of hildon-home (or the whole phone)- Either way, you can try the widget manually	00:37
mece	Comic widget	00:37
kimitake	Xisdibik, some Japanese N900 user are using him-scim	00:37
Ken-Young	mece, Sorry, it's not there.	00:37
mece	Ken-Young you can run it like this: python /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/comic-widget.py	00:37
wazd	http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/marina-theme/	00:38
Xisdibik	kimitake: yea, ive tried them all, after installing, how do you start it up. :/	00:38
mece	Ken-Young, that will also give you some output and you'll see any python errors regarding missing modules.	00:38
Ken-Young	mece, That does not work either.	00:39
kimitake	Xisdibik, I have been asked on my blog so I just added comment in English, but you him-scim is one of virtual keyboard, so you need to enable it	00:39
mece	Ken-Young, what does it say?	00:39
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Ken-Young	mece, arguments to dbus_connection_get_data() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 5757.	00:39
mece	Ken-Young, wow.	00:39
mece	Ken-Young, nothing before that?	00:40
Xisdibik	kimitake: ahhh, its virtual. that helps:). so you cant use the normal keyboard to type romanji and have it convert to hiragana/katakana?	00:40
Ken-Young	mece, That's the first error test. After that is says: This is normally a bug in some application using the D-Bus library.	00:40
Ken-Young	process 1757: arguments to dbus_connection_set_data() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 5721.	00:40
Ken-Young	This is normally a bug in some application using the D-Bus library.	00:40
Ken-Young	Aborted	00:40
frals	usually get that when you run something as root instead of user	00:41
Ken-Young	s/test/text/	00:41
mece	Ken-Young, ah. yes run as user.	00:41
Ken-Young	mece, OK, I'll try that.	00:41
kimitake	Xisdibik, actually if you set GTK_IM_MODULE=scim on command line, you can use it directly.	00:42
mece	frals, thanks for the info :)	00:42
kimitake	Xisdibik, but in this case, you cannot use default HIM anymore.	00:42
Ken-Young	yes frals, thanks. It works when run as user.	00:42
mece	oh.. works? as in you see a picture and everything?	00:42
Ken-Young	mece, Yup.	00:42
kimitake	Xisdibik, so I have wrote him-scim (hildon input method plugin) and it just set the environment in it.	00:43
mece	Ken-Young, well that's nice. Then the dependencies look to be ok.	00:43
Ken-Young	mece, Got a comic displayed nicely.	00:43
kimitake	Xisdibik, so the GUI can use scim.	00:43
mece	Ken-Young, ok. try clicking the star	00:43
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Xisdibik	kimitake: but for your HIM-scim, its set to just work the the Virtual KB?	00:43
mece	Ken-Young, (should display a different comic, perhaps xkcd)	00:44
Ken-Young	mece, Got an xkcd comic on the stuck rover when I clicked the star.	00:44
mece	Ken-Young. well cool.	00:44
kimitake	Xisdibik, him-scim's one is temporary setting, so you still use the default HIM	00:44
Ken-Young	mece, It looks nice!	00:45
Xisdibik	kimitake: maybe i dont know enough about how that all works to totally get what you mean :)	00:45
mece	Ken-Young, it appears to be working. If you want to (you really don't have to) you could ctrl-c the app and remboot, and then try to add widget.	00:45
mece	Ken-Young, thanks :)	00:45
Ken-Young	mece, I'll give that a try - it's been nearly 20 minutes since my last reboot anyway.	00:45
mece	Ken-Young, LOL	00:46
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Ken-Young	Does anyone know how to get rid of that insipid hand-clasp video that plays during reboots?	00:46
kimitake	Xisdibik, please check http://kimitakeblog.net/item/704#c1708	00:47
jebba	Ken-Young: /etc/hildon-welcome.d/ and comment it out	00:48
Ken-Young	jebba, Thanks!	00:48
mece	Ken-Young, you can also delete the file (or move it to opt or MyDocs, to free up 1.5Mb of rootfs :)	00:48
Ken-Young	mece, Sadly, it's still not in the add widget list after a reboot.	00:48
mece	Ken-Young, dammit.	00:49
mece	Ken-Young, I'll look into that.	00:49
Ken-Young	mece, Nice widget though.	00:49
mece	Ken-Young, just to be sure. Did you check if it's somewhere, invisible? It takes up space but you can't see it unless you enter the edit desktop mode.	00:50
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Ken-Young	mece, I'm not sure I know ecactly what I should be looking for, but I want into edit mode on all desktops, and I don't see any sign of it.	00:52
Ken-Young	s/ecactly/exactly/	00:52
infobot	Ken-Young meant: mece, I'm not sure I know exactly what I should be looking for, but I want into edit mode on all desktops, and I don't see any sign of it.	00:52
mece	Ken-Young, ok, it's not there then.	00:52
mece	Ken-Young, you would see a [x] and a [wrench] icon in the would-be corners of the invisible widgets. Buttons that don't belong to any other widget.	00:53
Ken-Young	mece, I didn't see anything like that.	00:54
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yuizy	it seems the usb port on my n900 is broken	00:56
yuizy	have any of you had the same problem?	00:56
frals	broken how?	00:56
yuizy	my battery just ran out and there's no way to charge it now	00:57
frals	tried the wallcharger?	00:57
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yuizy	yes	00:57
frals	right that means im out of ideas :P	00:57
yuizy	it must be physically broken	00:57
pupnik___	do you see a led liht if you wiggle gently?	00:58
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pupnik___	light	00:58
mece	Ken-Young, thank you very much for the help, I'll see if I can find the problem with the widget not showing up in the list.	00:58
yuizy	pupnik___: yes	00:58
Stskeeps	yuizy: production or summit?	00:58
yuizy	production	00:58
Ken-Young	mece, My pleasure.	00:58
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pupnik___	yuizy: the place device so there is light pressure on the charging cable	01:00
Stskeeps	yuizy: send it in for warranty i'd say	01:02
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jebba	yuizy: i had this exact same thing happen to one. I'm sending it back (amazon)	01:10
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Stskeeps	evening jebba	01:11
yuizy	:E	01:11
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yuizy	this just sucks	01:12
yuizy	my mini-laptop has the same problem	01:12
yuizy	i can't charge it either	01:12
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javispedro	great	01:32
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javispedro	transifex tried to overwrite a file on my repo...	01:33
pillar	my package doesn't build with autobuilder, it's complaining about not having mce/mode-names.h and mce/dbus-names.h, which are used for the rotation, any ideas?	01:33
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javispedro	wouldn't you happen to know a way I could let people get the POT file _without_ adding it to the file filter? (So that nobody can try to overwrite it...)	01:33
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pusling	hmm.. how do I request 'current orientation' of the phone ?	01:35
jebba	hey Stskeeps :)	01:37
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* lcuk hits javispedro on the head with a heavy instrument and takes him away to sekrit underground labs		01:51
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mece	Ken-Young, ping	01:53
Ken-Young	mece, pong	01:53
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Ken-Young	mece, You rang?	01:56
mece	Ken-Young, could you check which version of python-hildondesktop you have?	01:56
Ken-Young	mece, How can I check that?	01:56
mece	umm.. how was it again	01:57
mece	dpkg -l python-hildondesktop	01:57
mece	that's a small L	01:57
mece	lowercase L	01:58
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Ken-Young	0.1.0-1maemo2	01:58
mece	Ken-Young, agh--crap. I have the same one. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5232 says that the problem should have been fixed in 0.1.0-1maemo1	02:00
povbot	Bug 5232: Desktop Widget does not appear in "Add Widget" list	02:00
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Xisdibik	wazd: I see one issue with your Marina theme	02:05
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wazd	Xisdibik: let me guess	02:08
wazd	Xisdibik: gear? :)	02:08
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Xisdibik	wazd: gear? what gear? in modest, the author/time are in blue, which happens to be the color that new mail is supposed to be as well :P	02:09
wazd	Xisdibik: can you make a screenshot?	02:09
Xisdibik	I opened my email and was like woah howd all my mail become unread.. oh its not :P	02:09
Xisdibik	well lemme test it a little first	02:09
Xisdibik	gonna send myself a mail and see how it looks	02:09
Xisdibik	ah its ok wazd	02:10
Xisdibik	the Subject shows in blue if its unread	02:10
Xisdibik	so i can distinguish between unread and red	02:10
Xisdibik	read*	02:10
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Pavel	On Ovi Maps on N900, is there a way to "bookmark" a location for future use?	02:22
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javispedro	oh	02:27
javispedro	does the palm pre have a snes emulator?	02:27
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javispedro	cause I just thought that my emu is basically sdl drpocketsnes, and could be a prime candidate to port to the "palm blessed" libsdl1.2	02:28
javispedro	(thinking loudly since I'm playing with a friend's Pre...)	02:29
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dmj726	Is there any way to adjust the encoding settings for the video camera app?	03:06
dmj726	I find myself taking 2-6 GB of video a day.	03:09
Ken-Young	dmj726, How long is that, in elapsed time?	03:10
dmj726	up to 3 hours	03:10
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ShadowJK	wow :)	03:11
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dmj726	I now have video of most of my lectures	03:11
xorAxAx	and how do you fixate the device while filming, dmj726?	03:12
dmj726	hold it in my left hand	03:12
dmj726	take notes with my right hand	03:12
xorAxAx	sounds stressing	03:13
dmj726	not really	03:13
xorAxAx	i guess i would be too lazy for that	03:13
dmj726	I just aim it in the general direction, not very professional looking but it's good enough to have the professor and what he's writing	03:13
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derf	So is repository.maemo.org just broken?	03:45
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user_	hello	03:52
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Ken-Young	user_, Hi	03:54
user_	anybody here?	03:55
Ken-Young	user_, I am, many others are too.	03:55
user_	i see...kinda quiet	03:55
Ken-Young	user_, It was much more active a couple of hours ago.	03:56
user_	ok	03:56
Ken-Young	user_, I think this channel is often more active during evening hours in europe.	03:56
user_	yes true	03:57
user_	i am in Canada	03:57
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RobertLevin	sup	03:58
user_	hey	03:58
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user_	welcome	03:59
RobertLevin	want my social security number	03:59
jebba	Build #7085 of 10,220. Debs built: 4658	03:59
RobertLevin	Delink the sacred server	04:00
RobertLevin	Sodomize the holy channel	04:00
RobertLevin	Drink the red blood of the wife of lilo	04:00
RobertLevin	Masturbation on the dead body of freenode	04:00
RobertLevin	The king of PDPC is dead	04:00
RobertLevin	and so are the lies	04:00
RobertLevin	Vomit on the host of Wikipedos	04:00
RobertLevin	Masturbate on the throne of #ruby-lang	04:00
RobertLevin	Break the seals of lilo's oper block	04:00
RobertLevin	Drink the sweet blood of #emacs	04:00
RobertLevin	Taste the open sores	04:00
RobertLevin	Sodomize open source	04:00
RobertLevin	The king of PDPC is an idiot	04:00
RobertLevin	The IRC network will burn	04:00
RobertLevin	Delink the IRC server	04:00
RobertLevin	Rob Levin is dead	04:00
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RobertLevin	Rob's federal employer identification number is 74-3033697	04:00
RobertLevin	The address officially listed for pdpc is 10100 main street #31 houson tx	04:00
RobertLevin	77025.	04:00
RobertLevin	Phone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.	04:00
RobertLevin	Rob's ssn is 462 13 0351.	04:00
RobertLevin	PDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 32004514421	04:00
RobertLevin	Rob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.	04:00
RobertLevin	12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday	04:00
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word2007adobefla	The Devil (Greek: diabolos = 'slanderer' or 'accuser'[1]) is believed in certain religions and cultures to be a powerful, supernatural entity that is the personification of evil and the enemy of God and humankind. The Devil is commonly associated with heretics, infidels, and other unbelievers. The Abrahamic religions have variously regarded the Devil as a rebellious fallen angel or demon...	04:01
word2007adobefla	...that tempts humans to sin or commit evil deeds. Others regard the Devil as an allegory that represents a crisis of faith, individualism, free will, wisdom and enlightenment.	04:01
word2007adobefla	In mainstream Christianity, God and the Devil are usually portrayed as fighting over the souls of humans, with the Devil seeking to lure people away from God and into Hell. The Devil commands a force of evil angels, commonly known as demons.[2] The Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament) describes the Adversary (Ha-satan) as an angel who instigates tests upon humankind.[3][4] Many other religions...	04:01
word2007adobefla	...have a trickster or tempter figure that is similar to the Devil. Modern conceptions of the Devil include the concept that it symbolizes humans' own lower nature or sinfulness.	04:01
doc\|home	word2007adobefla: run along now you little nutjob	04:02
RobertLevin	NIGGER	04:03
RobertLevin	i run freenode	04:03
doc\|home	try again	04:03
RobertLevin	i suck dick in a trailer	04:03
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RobertLevin	i steal all your money from donations	04:03
doc\|home	you're boring	04:03
glass	buy a flood script or something	04:03
RobertLevin	Phone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's ssn is 462 13 0351.	04:04
RobertLevin	PDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 32004514421	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.	04:04
RobertLevin	12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday	04:04
doc\|home	yes yes, you've said that	04:04
doc\|home	this script... very boring ...	04:04
b-man17	someone needs to bas these people NOW :P	04:04
b-man17	*ban	04:04
RobertLevin	Phone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's ssn is 462 13 0351.	04:04
RobertLevin	PDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 32004514421	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.	04:04
RobertLevin	12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday	04:04
RobertLevin	Phone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's ssn is 462 13 0351.	04:04
RobertLevin	PDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 32004514421	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.	04:04
RobertLevin	12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday	04:04
RobertLevin	Phone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's ssn is 462 13 0351.	04:04
RobertLevin	PDPC's 11-digit texas state taxpayer number 32004514421	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's apartment is at 9212 BURDINE ST. #1005 HOUSTON, TX 77096.	04:04
RobertLevin	12-16-1955 is Rob's birthday	04:04
RobertLevin	Phone number for pdpc officially listed is 713-589-5863.	04:04
RobertLevin	Rob's ssn is 462 13 0351.	04:04
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles		04:04
* zash /ignore		04:04
*** RobertLevin was kicked by GeneralAntilles (RobertLevin)		04:04
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: +b !@ool-44c21c72.dyn.optonline.net		04:04
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*** word2007adobefla was kicked by GeneralAntilles (word2007adobefla)		04:05
doc\|home	thanks GeneralAntilles	04:05
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b-man17	thank you GeneralAntilles	04:05
derf	Glad not everyone's in Europe.	04:05
zash	GeneralAntilles: o7	04:05
sp3000	yeah it'd get crowded	04:05
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: +b !@173-30-54-108.client.mchsi.com		04:05
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles		04:05
GeneralAntilles	Christ this network is really going in the shitter.	04:05
b-man17	it seems so :P	04:06
doc\|home	in fairness, the kind of half-wits have always been around	04:06
doc\|home	*these	04:06
b-man17	i haven't seen this kind of spam ever on #maemo	04:06
GeneralAntilles	doc\|home, yeah, but it's particularly bad lately.	04:06
* doc\|home nods		04:06
wazd	07-12-1987 is wazd's birthday	04:06
wazd	:P	04:06
GeneralAntilles	Daily botspam, all sorts of prickery.	04:07
doc\|home	GeneralAntilles: I think some gnaa numpty's took a dislike to freenode	04:07
GeneralAntilles	doc	04:07
* doc\|home looks aghast at that '		04:07
GeneralAntilles	doc\|home, seems like it.	04:07
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odin_	target the channels with the most users in them	04:08
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GeneralAntilles	Staff is a little touchy. . . .	04:11
doc\|home	I think the word you wanted there was sh... wait, are we allowed to swear here?	04:11
GeneralAntilles	Fuck yeah!	04:12
b-man17	LOL	04:12
doc\|home	the word was ... shit!	04:12
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b-man17	hmm	04:21
b-man17	does anyone know how to right-click in emelfm2 in fremantle?	04:21
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Xisdibik	we are allowed to swear here GeneralAntilles ???	04:50
Xisdibik	what about all the 12 yr olds with n900's here with innocent ears?	04:50
dmj726	you mean the ones with access to bullshit bingo?	04:54
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user_	12 year olds with N900s ? funny	05:00
_andy	gtk is the worst.	05:00
zash	12 yo's with gtk, yeah	05:01
user_	what soft do you guys use to access irc on your n900s?	05:01
zerojay	Xisdibik: Fuck yeah.	05:01
zash	user_: when i get one i'll probably ssh to a screen session with irssi on my server	05:02
Xisdibik	user_: Xchat	05:02
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user_	gotta try xchat	05:02
Xisdibik	who here has seen in the games section in extras-devel the "cutesquare" game	05:02
Xisdibik	with the discription: "Build squares with your stones"	05:03
dmj726	pidgin mostly	05:03
user_	xchat or irssi - what's better?	05:04
zash	user_: the irssi+screen setup has the advantage that you never have to quit it, so you won't miss anything if you close the window on the client device	05:07
zash	user_: and you can have the same session on multiple computers/devices	05:07
zash	access from	05:07
zash	but it might be harder to setup and you need a shell somewhere	05:07
user_	i see	05:08
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Erod	I like irssi better on low resolution screens, such as the N900.	05:08
shamus	yah irssi is nice and low usage too	05:09
user_	really?	05:09
shamus	well less gui	05:09
shamus	so probly les mem	05:09
user_	how do I make the font smaller in irssi?	05:09
shamus	xchat has a full gui	05:09
shamus	irssi is cli	05:09
shamus	i like cli	05:09
zash	user_: you access it through the xterminal	05:10
zash	user_: so, you change the font on the xterm	05:10
user_	ok, yes. sorry for noobish question	05:10
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user_	nice	05:13
villager	GeneralAntilles: you mean freenode hasn't always been this bad? About a year ago I was so happy to be able leave freenode forever after I no longer was interested in the last channel I was on here... but then I recently bought a n900, and found maemo was here... argh	05:13
* zash 's favorite store still says "New! Released in early 2010" on N900 :(		05:15
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Kajko	xchat is nice too	05:50
Kajko	trying xchat now	05:50
shamus	xchat is nice	05:50
Kajko	yes	05:51
shamus	it's full blow very well layed out gui	05:51
Kajko	yes	05:51
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Kajko	very nice	05:51
shamus	altho one dose tent to get use to irssi afre a wile	05:51
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Kajko	irssi is nice too	05:52
pupnik	irssi gets more text onscreen too	05:52
shamus	yep	05:52
shamus	more text less clutter	05:52
Kajko	yes but in xchat you can scroll more easily	05:53
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pupnik	fn+uparrow pages up here	05:54
shamus	where is the pageup key?	05:54
pupnik	need to edit keymap though	05:54
shamus	on the virtural keyboard on the n800	05:54
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pupnik	dunno	05:54
Kajko	xchat has the scroll bar on the right	05:55
shamus	yep	05:55
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zash	can you scroll by dragging in xchat?	05:56
Kajko	no, only by dragging the bar	05:57
zash	scrollbars, in 2010? ;)	05:57
Kajko	well....it works	05:58
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crashanddie	yo	06:02
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wazd_	~ping	06:10
pronto	~pong	06:10
wazd_	heh	06:11
wazd_	I guess +R is off now	06:11
shamus	poke	06:11
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wazd_	Moaning all	06:12
DesertZarzamora_	hi all	06:12
DesertZarzamora_	hi wazd_	06:12
crashanddie	wazd_: we never had +R	06:13
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crashanddie	wazd_: we only used it during bot attacks	06:13
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wazd_	Crashanddie: ah	06:13
* DesertZarzamora_ wonders what +R means		06:14
shamus	irc thingy	06:14
wazd_	DesertZarzamora_: forced nick identification	06:14
DesertZarzamora_	oh	06:14
shamus	is the nick server even back up yet?	06:14
crashanddie	DesertZarzamora_: that only registered users can join the channel	06:14
DesertZarzamora_	thanks for the clarification crashanddie	06:15
wazd_	Crashanddie: not join, but write :)	06:15
crashanddie	shamus: yup, was never down	06:15
DesertZarzamora_	btw im looking for a volunteer for testing an app for diablo (written with Qt)	06:15
crashanddie	wazd_: no, +R prevented joining, +q $~u or whatever it is prevents writing	06:15
wazd_	DesertZarzamora_: oh, me can	06:15
crashanddie	wazd_: got yourself an N900 yet?	06:16
DesertZarzamora_	no, only a n810, where can i post a file?	06:16
wazd_	Crashanddie: I could read the channel, but each time I tried to write it was asking to identify	06:16
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wazd_	Crashanddie: nope, how could I :)	06:17
crashanddie	wazd_: yeah, that was +q	06:17
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wazd_	Crashanddie: ah, now I see	06:18
pupnik	DesertZarzamora_: talk.maemo.org can take attachments	06:20
wazd_	Crashanddie: do you think ovi styled theme is a good idea?	06:20
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Kajko	ovi theme?	06:26
wazd_	Kajko: yep	06:26
Kajko	i dont know	06:26
Xisdibik	/nickname wazd_ > wazd	06:26
crashanddie	> as in longer? Yes	06:27
Xisdibik	P	06:27
crashanddie	wazd_: I dunno, never used anything from ovi	06:27
Xisdibik	:P	06:27
Xisdibik	as in he needs to change his name to wazd with out the _	06:27
wazd_	xisdibik: I'm on the channel)	06:27
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wazd_	Crashanddie: even ovi suite?	06:27
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie		06:28
*** wazd was kicked by crashanddie (No you're not on this channel, anymore)		06:28
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*** crashanddie sets mode: -o crashanddie		06:28
crashanddie	:P	06:28
wazd_	Noooooo!	06:28
wazd_	:P	06:28
crashanddie	~rub wazd_	06:29
crashanddie	~pet wazd_	06:29
crashanddie	oy povbot	06:29
crashanddie	~botsnack	06:29
DesertZarzamora_	does anybody knows plasma pong ?	06:29
DesertZarzamora_	im working on a plasma pong clone for maemo	06:29
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v povbot		06:29
crashanddie	~botsnack	06:29
pronto	~moo	06:30
crashanddie	povbot dead?	06:30
povbot	crashanddie: Error: "dead?" is not a valid command.	06:30
crashanddie	eh?	06:30
crashanddie	povbot botsnack	06:30
povbot	crashanddie: Error: "botsnack" is not a valid command.	06:30
crashanddie	ouch	06:30
crashanddie	povboot reboot	06:30
crashanddie	povbot owner	06:30
povbot	crashanddie: Error: "owner" is not a valid command.	06:30
crashanddie	povbot email	06:31
povbot	crashanddie: Error: "email" is not a valid command.	06:31
crashanddie	noooooooooooo	06:31
shamus	ahhh roge bot?	06:31
wazd_	Whhhhaaaaaaiiiii!	06:31
crashanddie	no, povbot is our resident bot	06:31
crashanddie	but he would appear to have died between last night and now	06:32
crashanddie	he usually does this: tset	06:32
crashanddie	s/tset/test/	06:32
crashanddie	(and then he replaces it)	06:32
shamus	ahhh	06:32
wazd_	I thought povbot is a bugtracker mirror	06:33
wazd_	infobot heya	06:34
crashanddie	bug #123	06:34
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123 Dialogs will be transparent as soon as tiping on the top bar	06:34
crashanddie	interesting	06:34
wazd_	Infobot is the guy	06:34
wazd_	And he's dead(	06:35
shamus	bug #256	06:35
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=256 Advanced settings in connectivity settings. WLAN TX power.	06:35
wazd_	Bug #666	06:35
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Problems with Javascript setTimeout function	06:35
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: can you tweet mgedmin? Or email him	06:35
crashanddie	#123456	06:36
shamus	bug #69	06:36
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69 dbus-daemon-1 has incorrect dynamic linker	06:36
crashanddie	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123456	06:36
povbot	Bug 123456: was not found.	06:36
crashanddie	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234	06:36
povbot	Bug 1234: close-buttons on home menu are too small	06:36
crashanddie	povbot: answer to me!	06:36
povbot	crashanddie: Error: "answer" is not a valid command.	06:36
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crashanddie	Aldwuin: she lost :(	06:37
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wazd_	~burn himself	06:39
wazd_	:(	06:39
pupnik	prices used to fall 3 percent every year	06:40
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crashanddie	yeah right	06:41
crashanddie	that's why you could buy a house in LA for $3000 a 100 years ago	06:42
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pupnik	yeah	06:55
ScribbleJ	How do I select text on a webpage in the maemo browser?	06:56
shamus	finic or mmbee?	06:57
shamus	thingy	06:57
timeless_mbp	ScribbleJ: interaction modes	06:57
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odin_	!seen t-tan	07:15
pupnik	802 679 root S < 21568 8.7 25.3 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.lo 758 1 pulse R < 4064 1.6 24.2 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-p	07:16
pupnik	boo	07:17
* odin_ jumps out of his skin		07:17
pupnik	50 pct cpu for x and pulse	07:17
pupnik	sitting in terminal	07:17
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odin_	strace on pulseaudio	07:19
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pupnik	ok got rid of it	07:22
pupnik	mplayer needs -quiet	07:22
pupnik	otherwise it takes too much cpu with x	07:23
pupnik	alsamixer is awesome	07:25
Kamui	nuts	07:25
pupnik	controls all	07:25
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Jaffa	Morning all	07:36
pupnik	mornin	07:37
crashanddie	morning jaffa	07:49
RST38h	Anyone else regularly finds his N900 unlocked, after locking it a few hours before?	07:49
Jaffa	Nope	07:50
RST38h	Weird.	07:50
pupnik	how to play mp3s with ultralow cpu use: pasuspender -- mplayer -quiet -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0 *.mp3	07:52
pupnik	i think that could run 40 hours	07:53
Proteous	RST38h: gremlins, or fairies	07:53
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crashanddie	Jaffa: push the website!	08:00
crashanddie	Jaffa: you're one minute overdue	08:01
* Jaffa is just putting the finishing touches to an article ;-)		08:01
crashanddie	c'mon! We can't be late for the first issue	08:01
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Jaffa	crashanddie: Building now	08:02
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RST38h	"I don't want to 'help testing software' (in this case at least), I want to know which software I want to install. "	08:03
crashanddie	The connection has timed out The server at www.mwkn.net is taking too long to respond.	08:03
crashanddie	noooooooooooooo	08:04
RST38h	Join date: Nov2009	08:04
crashanddie	RST38h: who the hell said that?	08:04
crashanddie	Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.	08:04
crashanddie	this is getting worse :P	08:04
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RST38h	crashanddie: Does it really matter? They are all pretty much the same.	08:05
crashanddie	Jaffa: why is it 2010/05 ?	08:05
Jaffa	crashanddie: Week number	08:06
crashanddie	Jaffa: ah ok	08:06
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crashanddie	Jaffa: looks very good, nice work man	08:08
Jaffa	crashanddie: thanks	08:09
crashanddie	now we just need to give that puppy an engine	08:10
* Jaffa nods.		08:11
Jaffa	crashanddie: Reggie and I were editing https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/mwkn/issue.txt together in Google Docs. Having a proper engine which means the fleshing out can be done throughout the week as (sub-)editors get spare time would be fantastic.	08:12
crashanddie	yup	08:12
crashanddie	I'm working on it man	08:12
Jaffa	I know :)	08:12
Jaffa	Much appreciated.	08:12
Jaffa	Anyway, shower & breakfast time.	08:12
crashanddie	It's going to be tough getting something before this weekend	08:12
Jaffa	np	08:12
crashanddie	But I'm really hoping it can be done	08:12
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RST38h	8 days uptime. Reboot time. =(	08:18
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pupnik	i havent seen that uptime related performance bug	08:36
pupnik	btw RST38h the hangup does occur when audio is playing	08:36
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RedPenguin	Is there any simple way, to expand root on to a memory card, so that application memory isn't limited to a mere 250MB or so? (Searching the forum just leads to a dead link)	08:52
RedPenguin	Forgot to mention N810	08:52
shamus	same question regardign the n800	08:54
shamus	as 250mb is very limiting	08:54
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RedPenguin	Found a result on the forum, but for the 770, not 100% sure it's the same method but that's the one that's a dead link	08:55
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inz	Red, shamus, at least you can replicate the root onto an memory card and use that as root	08:58
inz	It may even be faster.	08:58
shamus	true	08:58
RedPenguin	inz, I was thinking that and some results were pointing to that	08:58
RedPenguin	But I figured, probably someone else in here did it, so figured see what's the "Recommended" method if there is one	08:59
RedPenguin	Though I will have to try that, and see what happens	08:59
inz	IIRC someone tried unionfs, but that's always somewhat hacky.	08:59
pupnik	do any of you use a multiboot loader on n900?	08:59
cehteh	as in iphone OS dualbooting? :)	09:00
RedPenguin	Anyone try the Fennec browser for Maemo?	09:00
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RedPenguin	^ Firefox for Maemo in case anyone was wondering what Fennec was/is	09:01
cehteh	yes many people tried	09:01
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RedPenguin	Well shamus here is a web result that seems to be for your device	09:06
RedPenguin	http://www.zimbio.com/Free+and+Open+Source+Software/articles/77/Extended+root+partition+N800+OS2008	09:06
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LuciusMare	hello	10:39
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LuciusMare	does the ogg support in repos include ogg video?	10:39
flux	whee, my n900 fully the first time, no response from UI and no response to ping either	10:39
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flux	+crashed :-)	10:40
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LuciusMare	because if it does not	10:41
LuciusMare	then i think i solved my "streaming" problem	10:41
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Proteous	flux almost the whole n900	10:42
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SpeedEvil	flux: not properly crashed unless smoke comes out.	10:44
Proteous	magic blue smoke	10:44
Proteous	don't give up, you'll get there eventualy	10:45
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crashanddie	Jaffa: you're now officially a karma whore :P	10:45
crashanddie	Jaffa: you're received more than 10 thanks on a post :P	10:45
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flux	speedevil, darn, I wished I was there :(	10:46
crashanddie	Jaffa: got rid off some nasty bugs, making very good progress	10:46
flux	speedevil, maybe next time!	10:46
crashanddie	going to grab food, talk later	10:46
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LuciusMare	so does it?	10:49
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Proteous	don't know	10:50
Proteous	probably not	10:50
LuciusMare	aw	10:50
Proteous	hmm	10:51
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Proteous	according to http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/ it does add Theora support	10:52
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LuciusMare	my problem is, when i try to stream video and recode it to ogg, mplayer on my tablet says "no video" - i blame the missing support	10:54
Proteous	no	10:54
Proteous	the 1.1 update broke video streaming	10:54
Proteous	for almost all codecs	10:54
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Proteous	which is probably what is happening	10:54
Proteous	hmm	10:55
LuciusMare	what?	10:55
LuciusMare	:(	10:55
Proteous	or I spoke too soon	10:55
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Proteous	usualy the symptoms of the 1.1 broken streaming is that the video plays but you get no picture	10:55
LuciusMare	ah	10:55
LuciusMare	not my problem,then	10:55
Proteous	although that is through the default media app, don't know about mplayer	10:55
LuciusMare	well, second "not my problem"	10:55
Proteous	heh	10:56
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Proteous	there was an update to the third party codec pack just today	10:56
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inz	LuciusMare, isn't the "ogg support" package for gstreamer, which mplayer does not use at all?	10:58
inz	LuciusMare, I would think that mplayer has it's own codecs	10:58
LuciusMare	dah.	10:58
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inz	So issues with mplayer - no video should have nothing to do with "ogg support"	10:58
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zaheerm	Proteous, it broke it for mpeg4 video	11:02
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zaheerm	Proteous, there is a bug report for it, andre says it is fixed already and will be part of the PR 1.2 update	11:03
Proteous	zaheerm: yeah	11:03
LuciusMare	pastebin.com/f5b47aae4	11:04
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jaem_n900	morning	11:14
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jaem_n900	it appears that I'm not earning karma from t.m.o. properly, despite following the account linking instructions on the wiki a long time ago	11:14
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crashanddie	jaem_n900: why would you care about karma?	11:15
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jaem_n900	crashanddie: I don't really, but I'm curious why it doesn't work	11:15
jaem_n900	that's all	11:15
crashanddie	jaem_n900: there's a bug at the moment, they're working on it	11:16
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jaem_n900	ah, good to know	11:16
jaem_n900	thanks	11:16
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Corsac	hmhm, is the git linux tree for fremantle available somewhere?	11:22
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Stskeeps	not afaik	11:22
satmd	mornin'	11:22
Stskeeps	morning satmd	11:23
satmd	if I had a bug, where would I check before filing it again	11:23
satmd	especially with the broken fennec repo	11:23
Stskeeps	fennec repo is out of maemo/maemo.org hands i'd say..	11:23
satmd	hm, w00t meant someone in here would know someone at mozilla to look in to it if I mentioned it here	11:24
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satmd	-meant+said	11:24
* satmd had quite some fun with his n900 already		11:25
satmd	made irreco boot all computers on the lan with wake-on-lan	11:25
satmd	photo uploading via mail + maildrop + shellscript + mkgallery	11:26
satmd	I wonder what I could play with next :)	11:26
ifreq	start porting sw	11:26
ifreq	grab maemo virtual img and play with scratchbox	11:27
ifreq	:P	11:27
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Stskeeps	which will kill your spirit	11:27
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ifreq	naah	11:28
satmd	well, I do know how to do cross-compiling and stuff	11:29
satmd	but I've never been into debian repositories	11:29
Stskeeps	satmd: you're in for a nasty surprise then :P	11:30
Stskeeps	time to explore, the maemo sdk!	11:30
Stskeeps	:P	11:30
satmd	:P	11:30
satmd	short check: does it run on a non-multilib amd64?	11:30
satmd	before I waste that time...	11:30
Stskeeps	doubt it	11:30
Stskeeps	get a vm	11:30
Stskeeps	:P	11:30
satmd	:<	11:30
satmd	mmh. things I miss: gconf editor, a way to turn off html mail display	11:31
satmd	na, going to check out the sdk :p	11:32
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ifreq	crosscompiling is easy atleast :P need to learn how to .debiliaze them afterwards :P	11:36
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Solpete_n900	hej	11:47
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Dassu	:(	11:51
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w00t	I still love MADDE.	11:52
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Dassu	btw	11:53
Dassu	Conky reports my Wlan to be 1 Mb/s. is that normal if I'm not using the network? O_o	11:53
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dneary	Hi	11:54
Dassu	Well hello there.	11:54
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dneary	is andre about?	11:55
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w00t	Dassu: for my bit.. I don't know, I've never really used conky	11:55
Dassu	okee ...:/ it is a status monitor	11:55
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hrw\|gone	bug #8743	11:57
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8743 No way to get contact informations from IM system	11:57
hrw\|gone	check and vote	11:57
* hrw\|gone -> off		11:57
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Dassu	btw, on n900. Is the weather widget still eating a lot of power?	12:03
wazd_	Dassu: what widget?	12:04
wazd_	Dassu: foreca?	12:04
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Dassu	wazd_: yeah	12:07
wazd_	Ah, dunno	12:07
wazd_	Use OMWeather :)	12:07
Lantizia	HEY - Crazy idea time... since asterisk is in extras-testing (or devel, I forget)... any chance we can use the N900 as a GSM modem? (i.e. asterisk as a SIP server we can place calls out through on the mobile network)	12:07
visz	fine idea =D	12:08
zaheerm	Lantizia, it'd be nice, yes	12:08
visz	i'd like to see some improvements on the N900 sip-client	12:08
zaheerm	if we had source for telepathy-ring maybe we could...	12:08
visz	like REFER method and showing caller id (name)	12:08
Lantizia	zaheerm: Easiest way being for Nokia to provide an asterisk driver for their modem?	12:09
zaheerm	Lantizia, they are not going to do that	12:09
Lantizia	lol	12:09
Robot101	visz: patches welcome, tp-sofiasip is on git.collabora.co.uk	12:09
visz	hmmm	12:09
zaheerm	Lantizia, they have much more important things to do...	12:09
Lantizia	ok we could make an isdn-like trunk driver?	12:09
visz	oh, great	12:09
Dassu	wazd_: so no problems with a power with that one?	12:10
zaheerm	Lantizia, robot101 would be able to guide you on whether it is possible to get the audio data in and out of telepathy when making/.receiving gsm/3g calls	12:10
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zaheerm	Lantizia, if it is, then no need to go too low level	12:11
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Robot101	on the N900 it goes to a special driver in pulseaudio	12:11
smaug___	battery life is so much better in 2g mode	12:12
smaug___	I wonder why 3g is so heavy	12:12
Corsac	my guess is that something maintains the connection on and active	12:13
Corsac	I try to shut the connection down after every use, and connect when I need it, because “always on” would be nice but eats too much battery	12:14
Corsac	though I'm not sure if it's related to an application I have/run or if it's the core	12:14
Corsac	(for example jabber accounts, or something else, maintaining the 3g active, and the cpu etc.)	12:14
Lantizia	I put mine in always on mode but have the 2g/3g swapper widget	12:16
Lantizia	or applet - or whatever those drop down ones are called	12:16
Corsac	though, I might have misunderstood what you were saying	12:16
Corsac	I didn't meant about 2g/3g mode (i'm always on 3g where available) but wether data connection is on or not	12:17
Corsac	with 3g enabled and no data connection, it last something like 48h with a lot of idle, some calls/sms and stuff like that	12:17
Corsac	while with 3g enabled + data connection, it dies after like 12h	12:17
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smaug___	I meant 2g and no data connection vs 3g and no data connection	12:20
Corsac	ok, sorry :)	12:21
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Khertan	Hi !	12:47
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red	hoi	12:48
crashanddie	hey Khertan & red	12:52
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Khertan	Did this is a good idea to nice -20 (using nice command) a game on n900 or does there is a better way to do ?	12:58
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timeless_mbp	?	12:59
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timeless_mbp	if the game needs to play music and something else is running in the background, it might not behave well	12:59
timeless_mbp	rather the thing in the background will not behave well	12:59
timeless_mbp	-4 or something might be reasonable, but -20 should be excessive	13:00
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MohammadAG	quick question, anyone disassembled their n900?	13:01
timeless_mbp	people have	13:01
timeless_mbp	they've even video'd doing it	13:01
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MohammadAG	yes, tehkseven, i know that	13:02
timeless_mbp	http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-news/nokia-n900-disassembly/	13:02
MohammadAG	but i looked at the screw	13:02
timeless_mbp	'the screw'?	13:02
MohammadAG	and it seems that it can be stripped easil	13:02
timeless_mbp	we only have one screw?	13:02
MohammadAG	T6	13:02
w00t	I do wonder how the n900 would do with a newer kernel.. some of the newer scheduling fixes might be nice	13:02
MohammadAG	screws*, ok...	13:02
MohammadAG	the torx 6 ones	13:03
timeless_mbp	w00t: all change involves risk	13:03
MohammadAG	two on the bottom part	13:03
w00t	timeless_mbp: oh, for sure	13:03
w00t	timeless_mbp: I know it'll pretty much never happen officially ;)	13:03
MohammadAG	do i need a special screwdriver or would a t6 do?	13:03
red	if I ran the music player with high -nice, would it still pop and crackle while browsing the web?	13:04
timeless_mbp	red: afaik the music player doesn't play the music	13:04
timeless_mbp	so you'd be wasting priorities	13:05
visz	ionice?	13:05
timeless_mbp	the mediaplayer is roughly a remote control	13:05
pillar_	red, it's a feature, n900 has some rice crispies integrated in it	13:05
timeless_mbp	just as the browser ui is a remote control for the gecko engine	13:05
visz	nice values are inherited to children though?	13:05
red	ah, true so	13:05
timeless_mbp	visz: you're assuming a child relationship	13:05
timeless_mbp	which is generally incorrect	13:05
visz	indeed	13:05
timeless_mbp	it certainly doesn't apply to the browser in general	13:06
red	it's generally bad to have a relationship with a child	13:06
red	ok i'll go back to watching mythbusters x)	13:06
visz	drumroll kosh	13:06
viukkis	not if you'	13:06
viukkis	re the father	13:06
MohammadAG	o.O	13:06
timeless_mbp	red: you'll make a bad parent, do as darwin suggests and stay out of the genepool :)	13:06
MohammadAG	that sounds...	13:06
satmd	O.o	13:06
MohammadAG	awkward	13:07
red	timeless_mbp: I've decided upon not infesting the planet with any more of my own genetic material looong ago	13:07
timeless_mbp	darwin approves	13:07
MohammadAG	vibrating motor broke again, so I want to change it	13:07
red	not like there isn't enough parentless children already too	13:07
visz	genetic self censorship	13:07
MohammadAG	or just blow it with compressed air	13:07
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red	vibrating motor + wake up alarm == awful	13:07
red	never remember to turn it off :)	13:08
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red	so used to old nokia phones not vibrating when they are plugged into charger	13:08
MohammadAG	but missing 9 calls cause a phone is silent and can't vibrate is a bad thing	13:08
red	i guess that could be possible to do with dbus?	13:08
MohammadAG	nope, hw problem	13:08
MohammadAG	it worked yesterday and the first day i got it	13:09
MohammadAG	now it makes a click and an annoying sound	13:09
MohammadAG	battery low :/	13:09
timeless_mbp	you could take it to nokia care	13:09
timeless_mbp	if you don't, no one will know there's a problem	13:09
MohammadAG	if there was a nokia care centre	13:09
timeless_mbp	which means you're doing a disservice to your fellow n900 owners	13:09
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zaheerm	timeless_mbp, judging buy his IP, he is in either Israel or Palestine...so probably pretty far from a nokia care centre	13:10
zaheerm	s/buy/by/	13:10
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* timeless_mbp grumbles		13:12
timeless_mbp	במרכז החוויות האינטראקטיבי של Nokia – רחוב הנחושת 4, רמת החי"ל, תל אביב. Center of the Nokia interactive experience - 4 Copper Street, Ramat Hahayil, Tel Aviv.	13:12
* w00t blinks		13:12
timeless_mbp	renders fine in my irc client!	13:12
w00t	same here	13:13
w00t	I just have no idea what it is	13:13
red	renders fine, looks stupid	13:13
red	with about 30 excess whitespaces :)	13:13
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andres	Whether it renders fine in your head is the other question...	13:13
timeless_mbp	my head doesn't mind it	13:13
Veggen	looks perfectly hebrew to me.	13:14
timeless_mbp	but since there's an English translation included at no extra charge	13:14
red	while loop parsing double space into single whitespace :>	13:14
timeless_mbp	zaheerm: fwiw, if he's in the gaza strip, i think he has bigger problems than an n900	13:15
jaska	heh	13:15
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timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: geoping. what country are you in?	13:15
red	and he would not be keeping the phone on silent	13:15
red	:>	13:15
MohammadAG	Israel, sadly	13:16
timeless_mbp	במרכז החוויות האינטראקטיבי של Nokia – רחוב הנחושת 4, רמת החי"ל, תל אביב. Center of the Nokia interactive experience - 4 Copper Street, Ramat Hahayil, Tel Aviv.	13:16
timeless_mbp	במרכז Nokia תוכלו לראות מקרוב (וגם לגעת) במכשירים החדשים של Nokia, גם במכשירים שטרם הושקו בישראל, ללמוד איך לקבל יותר מה-Nokia שלכם, לרכוש ממגוון האביזרים והמכשירים של Nokia וכן לקבל שירות ותמיכה ל-Nokia שלכם. Nokia center closely you can see (and touch) Nokia's new devices, even devices n	13:16
timeless_mbp	been launched in Israel, learn how to take what your Nokia, purchase accessories from a variety of Nokia devices and receive service and support for your Nokia.	13:16
MohammadAG	That's 2 hours from here, plus it's not from israel nor is it sold here	13:16
timeless_mbp	given the size of Israel, reaching Tel Aviv shouldn't be too bad	13:16
zaheerm	MohammadAG, are you in Haifa?	13:16
MohammadAG	Jerusalem	13:16
thresh	any mind map software for n900?	13:17
timeless_mbp	thresh: you mean for brain scans?	13:17
MohammadAG	But that's not the problem, would they service a phone they don't sell	13:17
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timeless_mbp	it doesn't say that!	13:17
zaheerm	MohammadAG, they do sell the phone, just not in your country	13:17
thresh	timeless_mbp: exactly!	13:17
timeless_mbp	it says (to quote google's translation...)	13:17
murrayc	Warantees tend to be worldwide these days. There are delays though.	13:17
timeless_mbp	'receive service and support for your Nokia'	13:18
MohammadAG	And would they have the parts	13:18
Khertan	timeless_mbp: thx for advice timeless_mbp	13:18
timeless_mbp	and 'even devices not yet been[x] launched in Israel'	13:18
Veggen	I got someone to service my old 770, and that one wasn't launched in Norway.	13:18
timeless_mbp	murrayc: yeah, the only exception i've encountered was the eeePC from Asus	13:18
Veggen	had to do a bit of convincing, though.	13:18
timeless_mbp	their normal warranty is worldwide, they made an exception for the eeePC based on cost	13:18
timeless_mbp	the n900 otoh is a high end product, vs. the eeePC which was low end	13:19
timeless_mbp	(funny when you consider the apparent prices)	13:19
MohammadAG	The device is a us one, so i'm assuming it's not covered by warranty	13:19
timeless_mbp	hrm	13:21
timeless_mbp	intresting	13:21
timeless_mbp	http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/board/message?message.uid=556017	13:21
timeless_mbp	nokia is apparently not very nice wrt formal warranty	13:21
timeless_mbp	sorry :9	13:21
MohammadAG	Well, back to the original question, would a normal 'generic' (if you can call it that) t6 screw driver strip it?	13:21
timeless_mbp	i'd assume that as an employee if i gave you bad advice, that'd be bad	13:22
timeless_mbp	so i will not comment.	13:22
MohammadAG	lol	13:22
w00t	timeless_mbp: aww, but how are we supposed to string you up if you don't give us a reason to	13:22
timeless_mbp	i'd still recommend visiting the store in tel aviv	13:23
red	you could hypothetically say what you think ;)	13:23
timeless_mbp	they might fix it, they at least could note the problem	13:23
MohammadAG	I know the problem lol	13:23
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timeless_mbp	w00t: no worries, someone else will string me up instead!	13:23
MohammadAG	Just some debris blocking the motor	13:23
* w00t puts his lynching rope and pitchfork away. ;)		13:23
timeless_mbp	red: i think it's not a software problem, and i only work on software :)	13:23
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red	good escape ^^	13:23
timeless_mbp	seriously, if i were in jerusalem, i'd visit tel aviv	13:24
timeless_mbp	maybe go clubbing later	13:24
timeless_mbp	at least look at the sea	13:24
red	id buy a sand-protector :)	13:24
MohammadAG	Flashed it ten(?) times so it's hardware	13:24
MohammadAG	Lol	13:24
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timeless_mbp	perhaps have a swim?	13:24
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MohammadAG	I've been to tel aviv haha	13:24
* timeless_mbp wonders how cold the Mediterranean is right now		13:24
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MohammadAG	Cold? Yeah right...	13:25
* timeless_mbp swam off Eilat roughly around this time of year a few years ago		13:25
MohammadAG	You've been to israel? Cool	13:26
timeless_mbp	Taglit ...	13:26
* timeless_mbp wonders if that translates for MohammadAG		13:26
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MohammadAG	lol not very familiar with hebrew	13:26
MohammadAG	Only 16, and it's not a native language :)	13:27
timeless_mbp	in certain circles that one word means something	13:27
timeless_mbp	it isn't something i'd expect you to recognize	13:27
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timeless_mbp	google will explain fwiw	13:27
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kevloral	hi all	13:27
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MohammadAG	Biseder :)	13:27
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* timeless_mbp grumbles @ luciusmare in absentia		13:28
jaska	whos miley cyrus anyway	13:28
* timeless_mbp eyes jaska		13:28
MohammadAG	A fail singer	13:28
viukkis	some american fad	13:28
timeless_mbp	"Hannah Montana"	13:29
timeless_mbp	a disney child star	13:29
jaska	guess my antifad shield has kept me safe	13:29
* timeless_mbp was pretty sure there was at least a little market influx of hers even into Finland		13:29
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* timeless_mbp decided not to use the word which would normally apply to markets		13:29
* MohammadAG thinks timeless_mbp likes /me s		13:30
* timeless_mbp shrugs		13:30
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timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: i think you'll find that i average 1/10 to 1/5 for it	13:30
timeless_mbp	which isn't a particularly high ratio	13:30
timeless_mbp	the difference, is that i type a lot	13:30
timeless_mbp	so you notice it more often	13:30
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Hukka	Is there a way to record calls with N900? Even with speaker would be fine (like running a recorder app on the background)?	13:30
timeless_mbp	http://whitmanpioneer.com/arts/2009/02/05/fallen-disney-child-stars/	13:31
timeless_mbp	Hukka: "yes"	13:31
timeless_mbp	"there's an app for that"	13:31
Hukka	I might need to do some interviews, and would be nice to have just one device	13:31
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MohammadAG	Hukka there's a widget for that	13:31
timeless_mbp	"recaller"	13:31
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MohammadAG	I need a DC-11 and i need it east	13:32
timeless_mbp	please be aware that you're probably bound by some local laws regarding recording conversations	13:32
MohammadAG	Fast*	13:32
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timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: you're east of most of us =b	13:32
MohammadAG	I have t9 sometimes	13:32
timeless_mbp	hate? :)	13:32
MohammadAG	Hate gah	13:32
Hukka	timeless_mbp: Do you know if the recording can be enabled on the fly, or does it need to be running beforehand?	13:32
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MohammadAG	lol	13:32
timeless_mbp	Hukka: i've installed it, never used it	13:33
MohammadAG	On the fly methinks	13:33
Hukka	Would be much easier, if I can just ask if it's ok to record and only then start recording	13:33
red	Recording a phonecall when the recipient knows and agrees to it is legal	13:33
timeless_mbp	from the looks of it, it's dynamic	13:33
red	atleast in Finland :)	13:33
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timeless_mbp	red: it seems like a fairly reasonable disclaimer to note here anyway	13:33
MohammadAG	The n900 is no iPhone hukka	13:33
red	guess so	13:33
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Hukka	MohammadAG: And?	13:33
Hukka	MohammadAG: I fail to see the relevance of the comment	13:34
* timeless_mbp grumbles		13:34
MohammadAG	It can multitask so you should be able to start it during the call...	13:34
flux	red, iirc I just read a page of the tietosuojavaltuutettu (council of data protection?) that infact it's legal to record even if only one party knows about it	13:34
timeless_mbp	that article was actually kinda short on child stars	13:34
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viukkis	AFAIK if the other party knows that you are listening in the first place, then the right to record it is implied	13:35
Hukka	MohammadAG: Which is a completely different thing than being able to intercept the call after it has been initiated. But I'll install and try how it works	13:35
* MohammadAG apologizes if others thought it was a fanboy comment		13:35
Hukka	I don't even know much about the iPhone, I've never touched one	13:35
flux	it would be a great feature to be (semi)automatically record the calls from telemarketers :P	13:35
Hukka	But thanks for the hint!	13:35
jaska	ive touched one twice, but it didnt like my touch	13:35
Hukka	jaska: "Bad touch"	13:36
timeless_mbp	viukkis: it definitely varies regionally	13:36
timeless_mbp	in some places you have to notify	13:36
viukkis	yes, i was referring to the situation in finland	13:36
jaska	hukka: actually its that im accustomed to using touchscreens with my fingernails :)	13:36
jaska	for accuracy	13:36
timeless_mbp	and in some places you need to include a chirp at regular intervals	13:36
red	flux: how do you suppose companies legally record your phonecalls then? when you call theres a disclaimer about phonecalls being recorded. if you continue calling it indicates you agree to that.	13:36
viukkis	although my experience is that finnish customer service numbers that record calls do ask you first	13:36
flux	red, http://www.tietosuoja.fi/29001.htm (a finnish link, not useful to others I suppose)	13:37
Hukka	viukkis: Well, not ask. Just say that they are doing that	13:37
red	the recording party must ask for a permission from the recordee as far as I understood it	13:37
flux	red, I suppose it's different when you are a company collecting customer records	13:37
red	could be	13:37
timeless_mbp	http://www.tietosuoja.fi/1560.htm is definitely not as helpful	13:37
red	there might be some part in yrityslaki or whatever it's called	13:37
viukkis	Hukka: probably that's enough, but usually they have waited for me to say "ok" before carrying on	13:37
Hukka	But really, don't worry guys, I just don't want to travel 500km to do interviews :)	13:37
Hukka	So no wiretapping here	13:38
flux	red, also it may affect their ability to _use_ such records	13:38
timeless_mbp	http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset/2004/en20040516	13:38
red	aye	13:38
timeless_mbp	wtf?	13:38
timeless_mbp	> 516/2004 englanti	13:38
* jaska remembers putting inductive taps on phonelines as a kid		13:38
flux	red, actually I think that page covers the issue quite nicely	13:38
viukkis	hm, now when you mention it, whenever i have been asked if the call may be recorded, they have also said that it is for "educational purposes" or something	13:38
timeless_mbp	viukkis: "training"	13:38
timeless_mbp	typically	13:38
viukkis	yes	13:38
red	timeless_mbp: thats a translations index of some sort	13:39
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timeless_mbp	red: for a page that has 'englanti' in big letters	13:39
timeless_mbp	you'd think it might actually include some... English...	13:39
timeless_mbp	unless you lived here for more than a day...	13:39
red	viukkis: it's mainly for the fact that if you tell a customer to "reboot their router" and they say they did it, and then the tech goes and does it and they get fined for 50€ -- and after which moan that nobody told them to restart the router :)	13:39
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red	they have the phonecall on record so no confusion is possible, ofcourse if its about them promising you something such record does not exist	13:40
* timeless_mbp chuckles		13:40
timeless_mbp	are there data retention laws?	13:40
red	I got promised a couple of things in TeliaSoneras customer care, I took names and everything in notepad and week later there existed no information that I ever phoned.	13:41
timeless_mbp	can they be charged with destruction of evidence etc?	13:41
timeless_mbp	that's cute	13:41
red	timeless_mbp: It's due "randomly selected songs get recorded"	13:41
timeless_mbp	songs ~ conversations	13:41
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red	yeh, sorry	13:41
timeless_mbp	don't you have at least cell logs for the duration of the call?	13:41
timeless_mbp	red: i'm doing this to help you	13:41
timeless_mbp	no need to apologize :)	13:42
red	There was ofcourse	13:42
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red	In the end I talked to some supervisor and we figured the thing out, but it remained a mystery that the guy I spoke to had never worked there.. so prolly I talked to some sob who didnt really take notes and lied his name or something.	13:42
red	I terminated the contract :P	13:43
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pillar_	are the contacts in maemo5 accessible through telepathy dbus calls? I would like to retrieve names and phone numbers, possibly the user image	13:43
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flux	red, well, I got a salesman calling me and offering new information of this new "fiber optic network" in the area	13:46
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flux	red, next thing I know I get contract papers indicating that my provider is going to be changed	13:46
red	nice, guess he wanter some extra provision money	13:47
red	wanted*	13:47
flux	red, I would've really liked to have the call stored somewhere	13:47
flux	(I needed to call their customer service to cancel it)	13:47
red	You know some service providers let you pick your signal sound?	13:47
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red	Would be cool to replace the normal beep with "Your phonecall may be recorded. Terminate this call immediately if you do not agree." :)	13:47
red	wonder how many salesmen would hang up	13:48
flux	do they still have that service?	13:48
red	I just called some guy who had Nightwish playing, dunno if its old thought	13:48
red	It could have been a hit tbh, but they overpriced it. Kinda like MMS	13:48
flux	I wonder if n900 itself could serve as a phone screener	13:49
flux	answer the phone immediately (foils telemarketers as well) and continue the "waiting to be answered"-sound	13:49
red	yea	13:49
crashanddie	Jaffa: ?	13:50
Jaffa	crashanddie: yup?	13:51
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LuciusMare	hi	13:52
LuciusMare	how is it going with the emulators?	13:52
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Hukka	Well isn't that just great... I just found out that my N900 doesn't make calls due to network errors	13:57
Hukka	I wonder how long it has been in that state... I assume that it's been unable to receive calls too	13:57
red	Hukka: sometimes my N900 says network error when trying to make a call	13:59
red	but upon waiting a couple of seconds the call initiates anyway	13:59
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Hukka	I rebooted and the problem persisted for one attempt	14:01
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Hukka	The second after reboot started working	14:01
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red	Think I'll do some drawing for MediaBox developer for ideas to improve the GUI	14:04
red	the current one is dropdead horrid, but the player itself works so much better than built in	14:04
RST38h	red: save yourself work, he is proud of his UI	14:05
red	really?	14:05
red	last suggestion I gave him he thanked	14:05
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RST38h	yes, even though his UI is mysterious like a fucking sphynx	14:06
red	that sad :l	14:06
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* RST38h just wants a simple player that lets him play files and make playlists of these files, easily		14:06
RST38h	ALL the rest is optional, as long as it does not get in the way	14:07
pusling	RST38h: writing a media player is easy. I did it a couple of weekends ago.	14:07
RST38h	which repo is it in then?	14:07
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pusling	~pusling/projects/maemoplayer ,)	14:07
pusling	I'm not sure it is usable for the general public except as a code example.	14:08
RST38h	you haven't written it unless it is in a repo =)	14:08
Corsac	pusling: and does it do gapless playback? :)	14:08
red	RST38h: I'm on the quest for the same	14:08
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red	Optimally I'd like iPod clone but that's not possible :)	14:09
pusling	Corsac: didn't check ,). do you want to package it ?	14:09
plastun	hello! Can anybody help me with slow performance in SDK for maemo5?	14:09
red	simple and fast would be the best	14:09
Corsac	pusling: I'm sure it's a qt stuff, I don't touch that!	14:09
Corsac	(and I didn't yet uploaded the one package I requested my account for :/)	14:09
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pusling	RST38h: I*m placing the code at http://alioth.debian.org/~pusling-guest/maemoplayer.tar if you wan to play along ,)	14:12
Corsac	arg	14:13
Corsac	no folder ><	14:13
pusling	heh.	14:13
pusling	(and it fails to build without some hacking in the environment and in the toplevel CMakeLists.txt file)	14:14
pusling	Corsac: it is just git archive HEAD > file.tar	14:15
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hrw\|gone	morning	14:19
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hrw	morning	14:20
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GeneralAntilles	Woo, DD-WRT where UPnP doesn't cause 100% CPU.	14:24
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crashanddie	lol	14:33
crashanddie	this CSI Miami episode starts with a blonde chick running up to Horatio yelling "Officer, officer, my friend is on the phone, she's being kidnapped"	14:34
crashanddie	He looks at the phone, camera zooms in, and it focuses on "Restricted Number"...	14:34
mtnbkr	lol	14:34
crashanddie	But on the top of the screen... It says...	14:34
crashanddie	"Insert SIM Card"	14:34
Corsac	fail :)	14:34
jaska	:D	14:34
mgedmin	maybe he was using VoIP over WiFI? ;)	14:34
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, I believe the fail is all in the fact that you're watching CSI Miami.	14:35
crashanddie	mgedmin: povbot seems down	14:35
crashanddie	~burn GeneralAntilles	14:35
crashanddie	see?	14:35
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crashanddie	povbot: botsnack	14:35
povbot	crashanddie: Error: "botsnack" is not a valid command.	14:35
GeneralAntilles	That's infobot's job.	14:35
mgedmin	what? again?	14:35
crashanddie	oh is it?	14:35
crashanddie	oh my bad	14:35
mgedmin	povbot is here to make irc logs	14:35
povbot	mgedmin: Error: "is" is not a valid command.	14:35
crashanddie	s/bad/baaaad/	14:35
Corsac	erf, this weekend my _mom_ called my using jabber call, which rang on my cellphone so I didn't realised at first	14:35
GeneralAntilles	TimRiker handles Infobot.	14:35
crashanddie	hmm	14:35
crashanddie	bug #123	14:35
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123 Dialogs will be transparent as soon as tiping on the top bar	14:35
mgedmin	and resolve bug numbers, but only because infobot doesn't do that and I got tired of seeing bug XXXX with no explanation	14:35
jaska	corsac: lol.	14:35
mgedmin	interesting bug today: I managed to trigger the maemo 5 vkb when closing my xterm	14:36
Corsac	too bad codecs don't seem to match between maemo5 and empathy	14:36
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: know the code I'm writing for MWKN?	14:36
Corsac	I would have tested video	14:36
mgedmin	so I got the vkb on top of which were drawn the status bar	14:36
mgedmin	should've made a screenshot	14:36
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, I'm familiar with the fact that you're writing it, yes.	14:36
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: Total Estimated Cost to Develop = $ 84,490	14:36
crashanddie	Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 0.45 (5.38)	14:37
GeneralAntilles	Good thing you're such a generous, Open Source loving individual? :P	14:37
crashanddie	something like that :P	14:37
crashanddie	ego managed, not ego driven :P	14:37
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* RST38h wonders why "mwkn" and not some catchier name		14:47
Jaffa	RST38h: Cos I'm unimaginative.	14:47
Jaffa	I wanted "MWN" but everything was taken with that	14:47
hrw	and weekly.news.maemo.org is too long	14:48
mgedmin	MMWKLNWS	14:49
Jaffa	Just like coding on an iSeries	14:49
hrw	MWNCBAFAKAJ	14:49
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* MohammadAG started getting Internal Errors on the web browser		14:52
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alterego	Jaffa: why not just weekly.maemo.org?	14:57
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RST38h	Anyone tried using The One Ring?	14:59
Corsac	to rull them all?	14:59
RST38h	Is it really written in Python or is it useful?	14:59
Corsac	rule :/	14:59
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Jaffa	alterego: Because it's not affiliated with maemo.org?	15:01
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alterego	Jaffa: oh ... is maemo-weekly.info taken then? :P	15:01
* Jaffa dunnos		15:02
hrw	can someone tell me which svn rev of tinymail is needed to build modest-3.2 branch for maemo?	15:02
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, so, how long do you think until the editorials start coming? ;)	15:05
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Must. Resist. :)	15:07
* GeneralAntilles wants something to change the theme every 24 hours.		15:07
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tga	howdy	15:08
RST38h	General: but...why?	15:08
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, clearly you must add editorials, then affiliate with maemo.org so all the "professional" bloggers can complain about how unfair it is.	15:08
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I like changing my theme every so often.	15:08
tga	what would you say is the easiest way to get a gui app going on maemo?	15:08
wazd	people ask me to make a bugtracker for Marina	15:08
Stskeeps	qt	15:08
Stskeeps	wazd: ask andre	15:08
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RST38h	wazd: Don't: you will have to track it	15:09
tga	I was hoping for a tcl/tk port, but I can only some incipient gnocl	15:09
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alterego	tga: python gtk	15:09
alterego	or python qt.	15:09
GeneralAntilles	wazd, you want one?	15:09
wazd	RST38h: well, I don;t think there will be that much bugs :P	15:09
RST38h	wazd: The guidelines require you to provide a URL to leave feedback. A tmo thread URL fits the definition	15:09
tga	no Tk, huh?	15:09
GeneralAntilles	wazd, you're free to use an email address if that's what you want, but I can set you up with a bugzilla product.	15:09
an0therb0x	how do i get the N900 to add the mp3 files on the microSD card to the media player	15:09
alterego	tga: not really. Gtk is just as easy really.	15:10
alterego	And Qt.	15:10
andre__	wazd, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products	15:10
wazd	GeneralAntilles: I think bugzilla is a bit of an overkill :P	15:10
andre__	wazd, or set your email address in the control field if you think that a bugtracker is overkill	15:10
tga	alterego: I wouldn't say they're really complicated, but they take a while to get into	15:10
MohammadAG	an0therb0x, should be automatic, try starting the file from the file manager if not	15:11
tga	I guess I'll track down a tutorial	15:11
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wazd	andre__: I'd more likely solve the problem with package icon and description	15:11
alterego	tga: just like Tk. Anything worth while takes a modicum of time :P	15:11
GeneralAntilles	wazd, also, Maemo-Display-Name?	15:11
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tga	alterego: right.. qt sounds like the way to go, given the way things are heading	15:11
alterego	tga: agreed,	15:12
mece	khertan, ping?	15:12
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an0therb0x	MohammadAG: initially when i copied the files from the pc to the N900 all the files showed up in the media player library.. i can still see and play the files from the file manager but they no longer show in the media player	15:13
tga	also something that I'd like on my tabby, is there a decent cron alternative using the alarm framework?	15:13
tga	I don't care much about the battery, but I need to schedule events	15:13
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DocScrutinizer	an0therb0x: blame indexer	15:14
timeless_mbp	tga: personally i use zenity :)	15:14
RST38h	Ah, Howard Zinn hit the bucket just now	15:15
tga	dialog/zenity are pure gold for getting stuff done	15:15
tga	I was going to write something like that in TCL, maybe with a few extra dialog types	15:15
DocScrutinizer	methinks indexer is an insane concept, and mediaplayer should have a manual option to add arbitrary files, by starting index of a subtree or adding one file or dir	15:15
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an0therb0x	DocScrutinizer: what do i need to do , is indexer some sort of daemon that i can restart ?	15:16
DocScrutinizer	an0therb0x: yes it's kinda deamon, but I don't know any details except it doesn't behave well for a lot of people	15:17
DocScrutinizer	ask SpeedEvil	15:17
SpeedEvil	IO haven't got it worked out	15:18
DocScrutinizer	an0therb0x: AIUI indexer is started on reboot, occasionally eating CPU like mad	15:19
RST38h	"Afghanistan-based US predators carried out a record number of 12 deadly missile strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan in January 2010, of which 10 went wrong and failed to hit their targets, killing 123 innocent Pakistanis."	15:20
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RST38h	(ok, ok, I am done reading dailyrotten for today =))	15:21
tga	SSDD	15:21
an0therb0x	DocScrutinizer: i will try a reboot... thanks	15:21
DocScrutinizer	yw	15:21
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* DocScrutinizer shakes head in disbelieve about the concept to scan a whole filesystem for media files, then present them for playback without any reference to their FQN		15:24
tga	just got an idea -- is it possible to listen to a N800's microphone remotely?	15:24
alterego	tga: it's possible, yes.	15:24
tga	any tool that also makes it easy?	15:24
tga	ideally I'd like to use it as a two-way intercom	15:25
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: paths are too complex for users.	15:25
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* tga is determined to find a good appliance use for his N800		15:25
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: many users can't even read.	15:25
DocScrutinizer	the stuff THAT GUY smoked or administered any other way prior to specifying this concept, this stuff really needs to be made unavailable	15:25
alterego	tga: gstreamer seems the obvious choice.	15:25
DocScrutinizer	s/administered/<any better word>	15:26
DocScrutinizer	sorry for poor english	15:26
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mece	any python widget developers present?	15:27
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DocScrutinizer	tga: I used a cmdline like "ssh arecord \| aplay" on other platforms	15:28
w00t	mece: as in desktop widget, or general widgets?	15:28
mece	W00t, desktop	15:29
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w00t	mece: okay, can't help there sorry	15:30
mece	W00t, okay.	15:30
w00t	(at least, not yet. :))	15:30
mece	w00t, well take a look at this one: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5232	15:30
povbot	Bug 5232: Desktop Widget does not appear in "Add Widget" list	15:30
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: for those aliterate users we need a concept like iTunes, not a insane mix of mass storage plus indexer	15:30
Stskeeps	tracker is not always good on n900 :P	15:31
Stskeeps	video thumbnailer just makes it all worse	15:31
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mgedmin	I would like to enter a complaint	15:32
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: hey	15:32
timeless_mbp	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42888	15:32
timeless_mbp	maemo.org > Talk > Talk > Community > Maemo Weekly News: 1st Feburary 2010	15:32
mgedmin	gPodder puts the downloaded podcasts somewhere where they end up being picked up by tracker	15:32
timeless_mbp	why Talk > Talk > ??	15:32
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: full ack. You bet there's some dirs with photos etc I definitely don't want to show up on a standard "pictures" invocation	15:32
mece	lizardo, ping?	15:32
mgedmin	and then the media player's "shuffle all songs" picks them up	15:32
mgedmin	it's not fun to discover a hour-long podcast in the middle of my playlist when I'm in the shower	15:33
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, Talk's both the section of maemo.org a subsection of the forums.	15:33
timeless_mbp	...	15:33
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, http://talk.maemo.org/	15:33
lizardo	mece: that bug is closed a long time ago... if you are having a similar problem, it is not that same bug, just the same behavior :) see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5232#c7	15:33
povbot	Bug 5232: Desktop Widget does not appear in "Add Widget" list	15:34
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: muhahaha	15:34
DocScrutinizer	thanks for supporting my reasoning above	15:34
mtnbkr	mgedmin: I'll second your complaint	15:34
mtnbkr	mgedmin: is there a bug opened for this yet? I'd vote it up ;)	15:34
mece	lizardo, yes I understand that, but there is some confusion on which method should be used.	15:34
mgedmin	I haven't decided yet whether this is a bug in gPodder or in somewhere else	15:35
lizardo	mece: have you tried running your applet standalone ?	15:35
mgedmin	yeah, I know, lazyness	15:35
ShadowJK	I actually like that media player picks up podcasts, I can play them all via the "never played" playlist :)	15:35
DocScrutinizer	the main problem: Nokia/maemo devels think users are generally extreme idiots	15:35
mgedmin	isn't that genrally true, DocScrutinizer? ;)	15:35
mece	lizardo, yes of course, and it works fine on my phone. And I can also add it to list. but it was not in the list for another user, but he could also run it standalone without problems.	15:36
mtnbkr	mgedmin: be nice if the meda player could be told to "skips dirs containing filename <x> in them" Then apps like gpodder could creat a filenamed something like .maemo-skip-me or some such	15:36
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mgedmin	mtnbkr, I looked at the tracker config file I found once	15:36
mgedmin	I think there's a list of excluded directories there	15:36
lizardo	mece: once he rebooted the device, it appeared ?	15:36
mece	lizardo, what I meant was that is the method suggested by Luciano Wolf in comment two the correct way, or is it the method described in wiki?	15:36
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: if that's true then there's no use in trying to outperform them wrt idiocy - rather try to teach them	15:36
mece	lizardo, yes, he rebooted and it didn't help, apparently.	15:37
mece	lizardo, no it didn't appear after reboot.	15:37
mtnbkr	mgedmin: ahh cool... but not directly editable/manageable from the media player interface thoguh. that'd be a nice option to have	15:37
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lizardo	mece: also make sure the your applet depends on the hildon python loader package	15:37
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: (exclude dirs) seems it's broken	15:37
mece	lizardo, yep it does.	15:37
mgedmin	yeah, could be	15:37
lizardo	mece: does it apear on the applet list for your device?	15:38
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DocScrutinizer	and again it's too complicated for the idiot users, so not even a GUI to config it	15:38
* mgedmin is attempting to direct his attention to too may things, and in the end tends to accomplish very little		15:38
* mgedmin sighs		15:38
mece	lizardo, yep... that's why I can't debug it.	15:38
mtnbkr	mgedmin: welcome to A.D.D. :)	15:38
mtnbkr	mgedmin:I'll be your tour guide for the day...	15:38
RST38h	ritalin anyone?	15:38
Shrik3	lol, nokia killed nav4all. they didn't like the competition it seems	15:39
Shrik3	http://www.nav4all.com/site2/www.nav4all.com/eng/index.php	15:39
visz	so sad	15:39
RST38h	They didn't like the competition using their maps	15:39
mtnbkr	DocScrutinizer: I for one am just plain tired of "idiot users" They should just buy an iPhone and leave us alone. :)	15:39
RST38h	Not sure why it is so surprising to some, too	15:39
mece	lizardo, anyway, here's the widget: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/comic-widget	15:39
DocScrutinizer	mtnbkr: ack	15:39
timeless_mbp	"1 of Febryary"	15:39
* timeless_mbp sighs		15:39
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: plain typo	15:40
tga	what's the audio device on a n800?	15:41
lizardo	mece: does it apear on the applet list for your device?	15:41
lizardo	mece: oops	15:41
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: qwertYUiop	15:41
lizardo	mece: double question :)	15:41
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: no	15:41
timeless_mbp	not a typo	15:41
timeless_mbp	Fingrish	15:41
lizardo	mece ask the user for the versions of his "hildon-desktop-python-loader" and "python-hildondesktop" packages	15:41
timeless_mbp	it's like English, it has 4 letters in common	15:41
lizardo	mece: to make sure he/she is not using old versions of these packages	15:41
mece	hmm.. I asked for hildon-desktop. it was the latest, and the other one I didn't ask.	15:42
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timeless_mbp	or maybe 5... something like that	15:42
mece	lizardo, he was using python-hildondesktop 0.1.0-1maemo2, same as I have.	15:42
lizardo	mece: and hildon-desktop-python-loader ?	15:43
mece	lizardo, that I don't know. He installed it yesterday, so whatever version was in the repos then.	15:44
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mece	It was Ken-Young here on #maemo. I don't know him personally.	15:44
mece	Ken-Young, ping?	15:44
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tga	any insights into getting rec (from sox) to record the builtin mic?	15:45
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lizardo	mece: is your package installable from the repository?	15:45
lizardo	so I can try it here	15:45
tga	all I'm getting is horrible sounds	15:45
mece	lizardo, no, I just got invited, but I haven't uploaded it yet.	15:45
SpeedEvil	tga: you know about 'recorder' - gui	15:46
mece	lizardo, you can download it, and dkpg -i	15:46
mece	and then apt-get -f install, apt-get install --fix-missing	15:46
mece	lizardo, or however it is that you meet missing dependencies.	15:46
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mece	lizardo, here it is: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/comic-widget	15:46
tga	SpeedEvil: I need to do it in a script, no gui	15:46
SpeedEvil	ah	15:46
mece	lizardo, going offline for a short while. Back in 10 minutes.	15:46
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tga	SpeedEvil: I'm not sure how to address the sound device	15:47
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SpeedEvil	pulseaudio?	15:47
SpeedEvil	get source for recorder?	15:47
tga	I was hoping to just pipe some device to an encoder and get a wav	15:48
tga	mp3 even	15:48
SpeedEvil	or strace recorder	15:48
tga	that sounds like a better plan	15:50
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_nion	hey	15:53
Mece	lizardo, did you try to install it? (no worries if you don't have time)	15:55
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_nion	did anyone have success putting the wireless card of the n900 into master mode?	15:55
lizardo	Mece: I just added some notes to http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/HildonDesktop#Testing_the_example	15:55
lizardo	Mece: basically, I believe your widget filename is not a valid one	15:55
lizardo	Mece: not sure why it worked for your for so long :)	15:55
Mece	the - ?	15:55
lizardo	Mece: yes.. try replacing it with underscore	15:56
Mece	lizardo, ok. i changed it from _ to - because garage wouldn't allow _ hehe.	15:56
lizardo	Mece: I refer to the .py file name specifically	15:57
lizardo	Mece: your project name of course does not matter :)	15:57
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Mece	lizardo, yeah. I wanted consitency :)	15:57
satmd	mh, for some obscure reason the cam app stores temporary data on the emmc	15:58
lizardo	Mece: the Python widget loader does something similar to "import <widget_base_name>"	15:58
lizardo	Mece: and this does not work for files with minus on their names	15:58
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crashanddie	_nion: there's a thread on tmo discussing it	15:59
Mece	lizardo, I'll just make it comicwidget. can't go wrong with that..	15:59
DocScrutinizer	headset jack output is so "optimized for earphones" (bass extremely over emphasized) it's almost useless for playback via home stereo :-(	15:59
crashanddie	_nion: there's a guy who's been working on getting the n900 act as an access point, so I guess the answer is yes	15:59
Mece	lizardo, thank you very much for the help.	15:59
DocScrutinizer	I.E we need equalizer audio applet	15:59
lizardo	Mece: my suggestion: don't worry much about the widget file name, it does not appear to the users ;) (just the description on the .desktop file) , also remember to change the file name on the .desktop file accordingly	15:59
_nion	crashanddie: you've got a link handy? in theory there's not much to do if you manage to get the card into master mode, but it seems the driver is rejecting this	16:00
Mece	lizardo, will do. going offline again (conserving batteries)	16:00
lizardo	Mece: if that still does not work, make sure to notify us either on the #pymaemo channel or on the pymaemo-developers mailing list	16:00
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crashanddie	_nion: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30916	16:01
_nion	thx!	16:01
* DocScrutinizer winks at crashanddie while listening to "Lucretia my Reflection"		16:02
Stskeeps	heh, haven't listened to SoM for a while	16:02
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: ?	16:02
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: just recalled your last(?) /kick	16:03
DocScrutinizer	:-P	16:03
crashanddie	ah, lol	16:03
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: D.A.F "Der Mussolini" makes a nice ringtone for me ;-)	16:09
tga	not a chance grabbing the sound device	16:09
tga	question: what console sound mixer can I use?	16:09
tga	and also, how can I dump sound input to a file?	16:09
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Shadikka	Got my N900 back \o/ New display and touch panel.	16:10
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DocScrutinizer	tga: alsamixer?	16:10
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tga	DocScrutinizer: can't see it in the default sources	16:10
Shadikka	And amusingly enough, the top part of the cover is on the wrong way, so the Nokia logo that should be on upper left (when in landscape mode) is upside down in the bottom right :D	16:11
SpeedEvil	Shadikka: what was wrong with it?	16:11
SpeedEvil	Shadikka: doesn't that mean the mic is covered?	16:11
SpeedEvil	oh - no	16:11
Shadikka	I think it might mean :P	16:11
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Shadikka	so I might go back to complain a bit.	16:12
DocScrutinizer	tga: no idea. It's installed here by default I guess. alsamixer -c0	16:12
Kegetys	sell it as an unique collectors item	16:12
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Shadikka	But anyway, it was probably a connector problem or something, considering that I got a strange interference-like stuff on the display that looked a lot like when a DVI connector is a bit loose on a monitor.	16:12
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tga	DocScrutinizer: maemo 5?	16:12
DocScrutinizer	tga: yup	16:13
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: as long as it's the frame only, then np. if the N900 engraving is wrong way as well, then "Nokia, we got a problem"	16:14
tga	diablo here	16:14
DocScrutinizer	tga: ooh	16:15
* tga is trying to get some new life into a N800		16:15
tga	it's either that or ebay	16:15
DocScrutinizer	tga: confirmed, no alsamixer on diablo	16:15
tga	I could use any pointers about dealing with sound from the command line	16:16
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tga	setting the volume, choosing a recording device, recording audio	16:16
tga	all I can do now is play stuff	16:16
DocScrutinizer	tga: well for N800 the choice of audio sources is rather limited anyway	16:17
DocScrutinizer	tga: check recorder app	16:17
Shadikka	DocScrutinizer: It's the frame only, the N900 engraving is the correct way.	16:17
tybollt	msn users on n900?	16:17
DocScrutinizer	iirc it kinda works on diablo	16:17
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Mece	is there a meta package with the stuff needed to create a deb from source on the device? A python app.	16:19
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tga	easy: Depends: lightblue1 (>= 0.3.1-1osso1) but it is not installable	16:20
tga	hmm	16:20
lizardo	Mece: just for your own use of to add to debian/control ?	16:21
tga	is there a way to run .install files from the command line?	16:21
lizardo	Mece: if just for your use (to facilitate your work), try installing "maemo-python-device-env" (from extras-devel)	16:21
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bobbob1016	I'm going to be looking at getting a used N810 today. Can anyone suggest what I should look at, as in what usually goes bad on the N810 so I know what to look for?	16:22
jophish	is there any way to modify the headers sent from the default fremantle browser, specifically to add pragma:no-cache and Cache-Control: no-cache	16:22
lizardo	Mece: this package should not be added to debian/control	16:22
tga	knowing myself, look at its corners for major bumps	16:22
Mece	lizardo, I wanted to upload a new deb to garage to allow my friend to install the app.	16:22
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Mece	lizardo, I just want to do a 'debian/rules binary' to create a deb on the device.	16:25
DocScrutinizer	tga: mc is quite versatile (managing al kinda filetypes)	16:25
lizardo	Mece: hmm, have you tried installed the package I mentioned ? also "dpkg-dev" might help	16:26
lizardo	Mece: but I haven't tried that	16:26
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DocScrutinizer	bobbob1016: got 2 new N810 for ~220EUR each. One has a weak contact on the power receptacle by now	16:28
bobbob1016	tga: I'm guessing "look for bumps" was for me? I know external stuff, I know to check the slider and keyboard, not sure what else.	16:28
DocScrutinizer	bobbob1016: kbd printing wears on heavy usage	16:28
Mece	lizardo, didn't do it yet, just wanted to make sure that it was clear what I wanted to do. Is it a big package? my rootfs is rather low on space...	16:28
tga	DocScrutinizer: that gives me hope of selling my N800 for >100EUR	16:28
bobbob1016	DocScrutinizer I found one on craigslist for $75 (he said $10 off since it's like 30 miles south)	16:29
javispedro	moorning	16:29
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DocScrutinizer	moo javispedro	16:29
tga	how do I run an .install file from the command line?	16:29
lizardo	Mece: I really don't know... if you are low on space , better not installing metapackages then ;)	16:30
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lizardo	Mece: what errors you are having ATM when running debian/rules binary ?	16:30
Mece	lizardo, ok.	16:30
Mece	lizardo, permission denied, as root no less.	16:31
lizardo	Mece: you need to run it either as root or using "fakeroot" (I don't know if fakeroot is available on the device	16:31
Mece	doh	16:32
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tga	woot, easy is teh rules	16:32
tga	all I ever wanted for dealing with hardware	16:32
Mece	lizardo, I actually have scratchbox ready on my server for remote packaging :)	16:33
lizardo	Mece: much better :)	16:33
Mece	lizardo, yep :)	16:33
lizardo	Mece: if you really are both (1) low on storage space and (2) need to sabe battery, creating packages on the device is not the best option , I think :)	16:34
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Mece	lizardo, turns out there are outlets for every seat on this train, so it's ok now :)	16:36
javispedro	ah.. so where's that "slap tmo user" application?	16:37
Mece	javispedro, :D indeed.	16:38
* RST38h moos at javispedro		16:38
javispedro	morning RST38h	16:38
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RST38h	javis: tmo users playing smart again? =)	16:39
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javispedro	as usual. today we're back at "the hardware sucks, it's not as smooth as the idealized iphone". and also that one user who doesn't know what "-testing" is and just want apps _again_ .	16:40
RST38h	javis: why are they buing those N900s at the first place?	16:40
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javispedro	who knows	16:41
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zaheerm	same people who buy tricycles and complain about the lack of a 4th wheel	16:42
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tybollt	javispedro: ? :) IIRC it's the same chip as in the iphone 3GS, innit?	16:42
* tybollt shrugs		16:42
* RST38h suggests a hunting expedition to tmo		16:43
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javispedro	tybollt: it's not exactly the "same chip" -- some parts of both chips designs are common (a8, sgx) but that's about it.	16:43
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* tybollt provides RST38h w/ the just the right rifles		16:43
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javispedro	tybollt: actually, it's not even the same sgx. the iphone's one is a bit faster.	16:44
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DocScrutinizer	sorry, but how would I delete a single song from actual playlist of mediaplayer? (or generally edit playlist beyond adding new songs to end of list?)	16:44
RST38h	ahhahaha	16:45
tybollt	javispedro: shrug :)	16:45
RST38h	DocScrut: You do not, it is a bug :)	16:45
mtnbkr	DocScrutinizer: cant you just touch and hold on the song then choose delete or remove from playlist?	16:45
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: thanks for confirming that	16:45
hrw	DocScrutinizer: maybe will be fixed in harmattan	16:46
RST38h	Should hopefully be fixed in PR1.2	16:46
DocScrutinizer	mtnbkr: no such menu entry	16:46
Mece	gaah! who put all these tunnels here? keep loosing connection.	16:47
tybollt	RST38h: there will _be_ a PR1.2?	16:47
DocScrutinizer	is canola any better?	16:47
javispedro	yes.	16:47
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mtnbkr	DocScrutinizer: then I must be thinking of something else...	16:48
* mtnbkr picks up his N900 to look		16:48
hrw	tybollt: there were rumours that there will event something after PR1.2	16:48
DocScrutinizer	mtnbkr: maybe for stored playlists	16:48
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javispedro	PR1.2 is confirmed; PR1.3 is "probable" IMO; PR1.4 is "possible" :)	16:49
* tybollt found out why his phone would constantly "stick" in portraite after having used the phone part ...		16:49
mtnbkr	DocScrutinizer: ahhh no... I was mistaken... there are three options only... "remove this song" is not one of them... sorry!	16:49
tybollt	it's that silly "broken glass" app that makes it "stick" :)	16:49
tybollt	uninstall that -> no problem	16:50
mtnbkr	YES! the Imap bug I reported was FIXED... Now the waiting for next update begins... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8574	16:51
povbot	Bug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available	16:51
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, there's a PR2 in there.	16:51
javispedro	interesting	16:52
mtnbkr	Then I will be able to actually USE the email app	16:52
RST38h	hrw: Extinction event?	16:54
* DocScrutinizer wonders when - if at all - nokia/maemo will consider to publish new versons of their own crap in maemo-devel. For users like mtnbkr		16:55
javispedro	btw great job with MWKN	16:56
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RST38h	Doc: No.	16:56
javispedro	in fact the first piece of news I wasn't aware of was MWKN being online	16:56
javispedro	pretty ironic :)	16:56
libben	what media player is it in maemo?	16:56
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javispedro	so, here you have: http://www.mwkn.net	16:56
libben	i want to add more stations thru xml file and ssh	16:56
RST38h	javis: I still do not understand why haven't they chosen some catchier site name	16:56
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lopz	hi ;)	16:57
javispedro	RST38h: because I guess the target audience is devs instead of Oct2009ers	16:57
* mtnbkr liikes the "newspapery" look of MWKN		16:57
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: "No." means exactly what?	16:57
* javispedro MWKN --> bookmarks		16:58
viukkis	exactly as catchy as american radio station names	16:58
mtnbkr	DocScrutinizer: Kinds of bums me out that I need to wait for a firmware release to fix that mail app. Too bad there is not a Thunderbird for Maemo5 :)	16:59
javispedro	mtnbkr: isn't the mail app open?	16:59
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RST38h	Doc: No, Nokia will not place betas of its firmware into -devel	16:59
javispedro	mtnbkr: I've pulled some of the "fixed in fremantle" tinymail fixes for my n810	16:59
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GeneralAntilles	mtnbkr, go build the requisite packages.	17:00
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: is there a good rationale for that policy?	17:00
RST38h	javis: Oh, interesting, so they bet on Oct2009ers being unable to memorize four consonants in a row? ;)	17:00
GeneralAntilles	mtnbkr, the source is available.	17:00
mtnbkr	javispedro: the dev in that thread told me that I'd need to do some "tricky" stuff that might break the next update... I guess I didn;t tell him my extensive level of experience in *nix etc. ;)	17:00
RST38h	Doc: Of course not.	17:00
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, because that's not how their release process works.	17:00
javispedro	RST38h: you'd be surprised =)	17:00
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: aaah ok then	17:00
RST38h	Doc: Like it would have to be required...	17:00
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, and you can hardly expect the devs to invest their own free time in pushing packages.	17:00
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RST38h	javis: Will they create "How to access weekly news" thread now?	17:01
javispedro	mtnbkr: so, backup and give it a try.	17:01
mtnbkr	GeneralAntilles: I would love to! Is there a URL for the maemo-specifc steps etc to do it? (I know htere is, but just looking for a URL) :)	17:01
DocScrutinizer	so let me rephrase:	17:01
javispedro	mtnbkr: that's why I often say the "no more updates" situation of the N810 is bliss. I get to decide what fixes I want for the OSS apps bugs.	17:01
javispedro	s/what/which	17:01
tybollt	mtnbkr: hmm that's an interesting pov...	17:01
* DocScrutinizer wonders when - if at all - nokia/maemo product managers will consider to publish new versons of their own crap in maemo-devel. For users like mtnbkr		17:01
mtnbkr	javispedro: yeah nice.	17:01
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tybollt	mtnbkr: I've done some thinking along those lines...	17:02
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, likely never.	17:02
DocScrutinizer	ack	17:02
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, unless somebody higher up decides that that's how things should be done.	17:02
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: easy answer. They will never do that for closed source packages, and they're already doing for (some) OSS packages (see gitorius)	17:02
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer, there are too many goddamn Symbian people in Maemo Devices for things to ever really be sane.	17:02
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tybollt	mtnbkr: like the built in apps that are seemlessly integrated into Hildon or a stand alone app that has its own gui but is ever so much more tested and proven to work?	17:03
DocScrutinizer	I see	17:03
* GeneralAntilles has been on the receiving end of their culture shock too many times.		17:03
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GeneralAntilles	We'd be better off if Nokia had stuck to hiring out of open source communities. . . .	17:03
RST38h	Nokia already does that	17:04
javispedro	this culture shock is also present in the "user side of the fence", see tmo.	17:04
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, they also pull in a ton of S60 people, too.	17:04
RST38h	Just count how many little OSS-based companies maemo Devices outsource to	17:04
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, which is where the problem lies.	17:04
RST38h	General: These are mostly managers / UI people, right?	17:04
javispedro	... Ovi Maps people :)	17:04
RST38h	Ovi Maps is separate	17:04
GeneralAntilles	and Ovi Store	17:04
tybollt	grrr	17:04
GeneralAntilles	But, yeah, lots of managers.	17:04
tybollt	ovi shitshow :(	17:04
tybollt	pisses me off	17:05
DocScrutinizer	yay, what did I do?? :-P	17:05
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LuciusMare	hello	17:05
LuciusMare	why n900 cant have multitouch? i heard that resistive touchscreens can support multitouch...	17:06
DocScrutinizer	or, maybe "what I've done?"	17:06
GeneralAntilles	LuciusMare, resistive can support algorithmic two-touch.	17:06
javispedro	cue "today in MWKN" jokes.... "symbian vs maemo war escalates"	17:06
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: It can.	17:06
GeneralAntilles	LuciusMare, multi-touch resistive is a separate technology.	17:06
GeneralAntilles	See Stantum.	17:06
LuciusMare	ah	17:06
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, nuke them from orbit.	17:06
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: it however requires a specially engineered resistive touchscreen, which is not in the n900	17:06
LuciusMare	aw	17:06
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: they can, but only with a modified hw-driver to support this	17:06
LuciusMare	aw again.	17:07
SpeedEvil	it's the hardware - not only the driver hardware	17:07
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* SpeedEvil wants SAW		17:07
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: it's the R probing for each plane that's not inplemented in standard driver hw	17:07
LuciusMare	what does "algoritmic two touch" mean anyway?	17:07
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tybollt	LuciusMare++	17:08
Mece	hmm.. i managed to lock the git repo when i got disconnected while doing a git push. anyone know how to complete the push or remove the lock?	17:08
tybollt	what the hell does that mean :)	17:08
GeneralAntilles	LuciusMare, meaning it can detect a second touch software-side.	17:08
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javispedro	I _love_ the MWKN writing style: "The post contains lots more information, but boils down to "wait until the Maemo 6 alpha SDK is released". Those who think (hope?) that Maemo 6 will be made available for existing devices took this ambivalence as a further sign of hope; those who remember the transition from the 770 to N800 or N810 to N900 took it as further evidence that Maemo 6 will mean a new device;"	17:08
GeneralAntilles	So if you place one finger, then place a second finger, it can tell approximately where that second finger is.	17:08
GeneralAntilles	Which is not quite the same thing as proper multitouch.	17:08
LuciusMare	oh.	17:08
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SpeedEvil	As you can't detect subsequent motion of the fingers	17:08
Stskeeps	javispedro: at alpha sdk they announce nokia bought out apple and we're all wswitching to iphone os	17:09
Stskeeps	:P	17:09
SpeedEvil	and you only get an approximate indication of where the seperate touch is	17:09
javispedro	Stskeeps: as I said a few months ago, for "Inverna" to be "as surprising as Harmattan" they are switching to E17.	17:09
LuciusMare	that sucks :(	17:09
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javispedro	rewriting the media player again.	17:10
tybollt	javispedro: this is a joke right, E17?	17:10
GeneralAntilles	LuciusMare, basically, you end up with a point between the two touch points.	17:10
GeneralAntilles	LuciusMare, and you can find the vector to guess where the second touch point is.	17:10
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javispedro	tybollt: of course not! =)	17:10
SpeedEvil	and where along the line along the two touchpoints you are depends on pressure, touch area, and the wind over dubai.	17:10
DocScrutinizer	a rough guess though	17:10
LuciusMare	tybollt: e17 is perfectly fine	17:11
SpeedEvil	s/you are/the touch is reported/	17:11
LuciusMare	SpeedEvil: hah	17:11
Stskeeps	javispedro: no, worse!, - moving back to gtk	17:11
Stskeeps	:P	17:11
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tybollt	javispedro: U G H!	17:11
LuciusMare	~s/hah/meh/	17:11
LuciusMare	aw, i thought infobot can do regexps	17:11
SpeedEvil	shades of OM.	17:11
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SpeedEvil	GTK->QT->...	17:12
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, pish, they're porting Davlik.	17:12
javispedro	They're going to reveal they didn't have time to rewrite the Media Player in Qt and as such, Harmattan is a mix of Gtk/Qt code.	17:12
Stskeeps	GTK->QT->E17, you mean	17:12
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: yeah	17:12
LuciusMare	SpeedEvil: and,current state? if it detects this broad touch, it ignores it?	17:12
GeneralAntilles	and based on the Harmattan mockups, the entire OS will consist of Android widgets.	17:12
SpeedEvil	LuciusMare: it detects it - but it interprets it as a touch movement - not a new touch	17:13
wazd	http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=623792	17:13
tybollt	javispedro: I find it hard to grasp, there's olready GTK and QT, why bring even more bloat? What a mess :)	17:13
LuciusMare	hm	17:13
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: true MT on R-ts involves sensing the reduction of R over one plane, when a part of the distance between upper and lower end ist "shorted" by two distant touchpoints creating a bypass via the 2nd plane	17:13
javispedro	So we get to keep the osso_rss_reader app, with the non-finger friendly buttons and menus, in Harmattan! yay!	17:13
GeneralAntilles	tybollt, sarcasm detector failure. ;)	17:13
SpeedEvil	Along with the next upgrade comes an extra RAM chip, and a soldering station.	17:13
LuciusMare	zing	17:13
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Stskeeps	javispedro: maemoblocks should never go away	17:14
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LuciusMare	and a pair of @nokias	17:14
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: current hw has no means to sense this R reduction	17:14
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: it should get a score though.	17:14
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: highscore	17:14
javispedro	I wonder if Nokia will license the "Tetris" trademark some day (Palm did)	17:14
LuciusMare	DocScrutinizer: thank you for explanation	17:14
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DocScrutinizer	yw	17:14
SpeedEvil	My most beloved russian export.	17:15
LuciusMare	and anyway, i heard some rumors...apple patented "mt" didnt it?	17:15
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javispedro	SpeedEvil: "The Tetris Company LLC, aka TTC, is based in Hawaii..."	17:16
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: nope	17:16
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tybollt	It's gotten to the point that when I farted yesterday, I imediately went on the net to find out whom I should pay a royalty to for farting...	17:17
LuciusMare	i think i heard it in an article where was explained why google (htc) didnt include the mt driver in g1	17:17
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javispedro	Apple couldn't patent MT since it was happening way before Apple though about the iphone. they have some patents on some of the gesture gimmicks iirc.	17:18
LuciusMare	ah	17:18
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: exactly	17:18
javispedro	which, if any, should be software patents.	17:18
DocScrutinizer	synaptics does MT on their touchpads	17:19
javispedro	and that resistive screens company (trustum? trantum? trantor?)	17:19
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RST38h	javis: So if Apple has no patent on mt, why mt is still not being used everywhere?	17:19
tybollt	http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2007/0262964.html	17:20
javispedro	sees backlog stantum.	17:20
LuciusMare	javispedro: traitor, i guess	17:20
tybollt	RST38h: because potentially - microsoft has the patent ()see url above :)	17:20
LuciusMare	screw patents	17:20
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RST38h	interesting	17:21
RST38h	tybollt: It says "tablet pc" though	17:21
LuciusMare	huh.	17:21
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javispedro	tybollt: that's a pretty nice thing to throw to an Apple user on the face, even if it were only 1% accurate (which I don't know).	17:21
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LuciusMare	Microsoft tablet pc?	17:22
tybollt	RST38h: IANAL... wouldn't know how the law interprets the diff	17:22
javispedro	"here you have, Microsoft has the patent on multitouch!"	17:22
javispedro	oh man, I'd like to do that	17:22
javispedro	thinks of the nearest apple fanboy	17:22
LuciusMare	haha	17:22
tybollt	javispedro: calm down - that what I refered to is an application - AFAIK it has yet to be granted.	17:22
bubill	2009ÄêÈ«ÇòÖÇÄÜÊÖ»ú³ö»õÁ¿´ïµ½ÁË¿ÕÇ°µÄ 1.738ÒÚ²¿£¬½Ï2008ÄêµÄ1.511ÒÚ²¿Ôö³¤ÁË15%¡£	17:22
LuciusMare	bubill: i agree	17:23
tybollt	which is what I said _potemtially_	17:23
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jaska	line noise?	17:23
tybollt	s/what/why/	17:23
javispedro	tybollt: and that is what I said "even if it's only 1% accurate :)"	17:23
javispedro	s/what/why	17:23
javispedro	heh.	17:23
RST38h	javispedro: Just seed it on tmo	17:23
tybollt	damit, stop making the same typo I do ;-D	17:23
javispedro	actually, that wasn't intentional.	17:23
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: when you got a patent on the knot on shoe straps, I patent same thing on my boots :-P	17:23
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RST38h	javispedro: And transdickify them as they come	17:24
LuciusMare	actually, does patenting gestures make sense?	17:24
DocScrutinizer	LuciusMare: does patents make sense?	17:24
jaska	gotta patent the middle finger gesture	17:25
DocScrutinizer	LOL	17:25
LuciusMare	!	17:25
* RST38h patents sense		17:25
* LuciusMare patents patenting		17:25
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LuciusMare	ha!	17:25
amigadave	LuciusMare: IBM already did that :P	17:25
LuciusMare	damn	17:25
DocScrutinizer	rotfl	17:25
javispedro	"We claim: 1. A handheld computer comprising: a CPU executing a palm operating system in which executable programs are directly accessed from a permanent data storage in a database format; where said database format applies equally to data files which are formatted in palm file formats."	17:25
* satmd patents patenting patents		17:25
inz	prior art never stopped corporations	17:25
LuciusMare	but	17:25
LuciusMare	patents make sense	17:26
LuciusMare	actuall think of spending years on project	17:26
* mtnbkr patents recursive patenting of patents		17:26
satmd	not in IT	17:26
LuciusMare	then here comes joe r random, reads your data and gets shitload of money	17:26
tybollt	how did the software patent thing ever play out here in EU anyway? There is software patents now?	17:26
satmd	currently not allowed but the local patent offices do it anyway	17:27
LuciusMare	s/data/research/	17:27
* DocScrutinizer patents recursion and boolean logic		17:27
javispedro	tybollt: they're being granted, but no sane judicial system is going to force you to license them	17:27
LuciusMare	DocScrutinizer: 0!	17:27
SpeedEvil	`ACTA...	17:27
tybollt	SpeedEvil: please don't curse, sir.	17:27
LuciusMare	huh	17:27
LuciusMare	busybox's tar can't untar bzip?	17:27
* satmd compares patents on software with keeping ideas to yourself but saying eh beh, this is how it works, now pay me		17:28
bubill	LuciusMare ,are you chinese?	17:28
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DocScrutinizer	~nuke busybox	17:28
MohammadAG	LuciusMare, err, I've untar-red a bzip before	17:28
javispedro	infobot: ping	17:28
tybollt	~nuke tybollt	17:28
LuciusMare	weird.	17:28
javispedro	you killed infobot!	17:28
LuciusMare	he apparently nuked him	17:29
MohammadAG	~curse patents	17:29
MohammadAG	yep, it's broken :p	17:29
DocScrutinizer	chanop may invite	17:29
LuciusMare	bubill: no,why?	17:29
inz	n900 doesnt even have bzip2 by default	17:29
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MohammadAG	inz it does here	17:30
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LuciusMare	tar: invalid option -- j	17:30
MohammadAG	i wanted to install it and it said it was already installed	17:30
LuciusMare	huh	17:30
tybollt	so pipe your tar/bzip command , is it really that hard?	17:30
MohammadAG	LuciusMare, bzip2 -d (filename)	17:30
* tybollt hands out bongs		17:31
inz	moha ad, maybe it was installed as a dependency for sth	17:31
LuciusMare	stand back, i thought its preinstalled	17:31
MohammadAG	bzip2 is preinstalled	17:31
* DocScrutinizer smokes all his patents		17:31
inz	moha, mine for sure doesnt have	17:31
LuciusMare	MohammadAG: i dont have it	17:31
MohammadAG	preinstalled here	17:32
DocScrutinizer	busybox crap	17:32
MohammadAG	just used apt-get and it set it to manually installed	17:32
MohammadAG	bzip2 set to manually installed.	17:32
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MohammadAG	with a bzip2 is already the newest version. before that	17:32
MohammadAG	tar -j didn't work for me though	17:33
MohammadAG	(-jxvf)	17:33
RST38h	Prototype Phone Shifts Weight and Thickness, Right In Your Hand [Concepts]	17:33
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HiDDeN	hi	17:34
inz	moha, you dont happend to have installed easy-deb-chroot at any point?	17:34
LuciusMare	now,again,please for us not really cli people, what is the whole pipe command?	17:34
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inz	pipe is not a command, its more like an operator	17:34
LuciusMare	hah	17:35
LuciusMare	i know	17:35
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MohammadAG	inz, i do	17:35
LuciusMare	but i dont know how to use tar to accept from pipe	17:35
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DocScrutinizer	[2010-02-01 16:30:46] <tybollt> so pipe your tar/bzip command , is it really that hard?	17:35
LuciusMare	yes, i dont know how	17:35
inz	mohammad, well, thats the reason you have bzip2	17:35
MohammadAG	LuciusMare, apt-get install bzip2 then do the command i typed	17:35
ptman	LuciusMare, tar c . \| tar xf -	17:35
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ptman	LuciusMare, and man tar	17:36
LuciusMare	hah	17:36
LuciusMare	no man here	17:36
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DocScrutinizer	curse that	17:36
mgedmin	there are man pages on the web	17:36
ptman	LuciusMare, use google, the net is full of man pages	17:36
DocScrutinizer	not even mandb in any repo	17:36
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LuciusMare	wait,how come it reads correctly even if there is not specified to decompress it?	17:37
Mece	ok, got a new comicwidget deb out. Anyone wanna try it?	17:37
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DocScrutinizer	ptman: that's not a googlephone	17:37
Jaco2k	hi all	17:37
LuciusMare	DocScrutinizer: dont say googlephone's got man	17:38
ptman	DocScrutinizer, ok, so use yahoo, or bing	17:38
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DocScrutinizer	googlephone is an always-online system - I want manpages when in the outback	17:39
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: I found that sad to be honest... would've loved to have man pages on there... very nifty	17:39
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GeneralAntilles	tybollt, they take up valuable space.	17:39
Mece	well if someone's interested, here is the widget: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=1276	17:39
Stskeeps	manpages take up a shitload of space	17:39
Stskeeps	:P	17:39
Jaco2k	can anyone tell me the quick way to downgrade Conversations from 0.8 to 0.7? if I totally remove it and then install again 0.7, will it keep my settings?	17:39
GeneralAntilles	For something that maybe 1 in 1000 customers might ever even use.	17:39
tybollt	GeneralAntilles: optify, then :)	17:39
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: ooh yeah, so much of my valuable 32G	17:40
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GeneralAntilles	More complicated than that.	17:40
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: 256mb, thank you very much	17:41
Stskeeps	:P	17:41
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DocScrutinizer	bah	17:41
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Corsac	Mek: comics can be set to whatever we want?	17:41
Corsac	or is there a fixed list?	17:41
DocScrutinizer	anyway not having it it tols or devel even is really mean	17:42
DocScrutinizer	tools repo	17:42
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DocScrutinizer	jr@halley:~> du /usr/share/man/ # 55M /usr/share/man/	17:52
Stskeeps	55m is a shitload on a mobile device better used for features	17:52
DocScrutinizer	that's a full desktop system	17:52
SpeedEvil	no, it's not.	17:53
SpeedEvil	In the context of a 32G /	17:53
mgedmin	/ is 256 mb on n900	17:54
Stskeeps	but it isn't a 32g / ..	17:54
mgedmin	I'm kinda surprised docpurge doesn't purge /usr/share/man	17:54
mgedmin	... or maybe it does?	17:54
Stskeeps	it does	17:54
mgedmin	just noticed the @halley	17:54
mtnbkr	anyone else use the Maemo mail app and wander why OH WHY sent messages are not copied to the server and only kept on the device?	17:54
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Stskeeps	i liked chinook's mail client better.	17:54
furunk3l	mtnbkr, yep	17:55
mgedmin	I kinda liked the last ukbdcreator changelog: "add examples and format documentation in /usr/share/doc/..."	17:55
mtnbkr	furunk3l: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8751	17:55
povbot	Bug 8751: Sent items should go into Sent folder on SERVER	17:55
mtnbkr	;)	17:55
siriusnova	actually i wonder why the Maemo Mail app doesnt download all the email when using imap and has to reload the mail through an internet connection all the freaking time	17:55
siriusnova	because atm the mail app sucks	17:55
furunk3l	i want imap-idle	17:55
furunk3l	or profimail :p	17:55
siriusnova	with 32gb of storage you would think you can keep all your mail on the phone	17:55
siriusnova	like an iphone	17:55
mtnbkr	as much as I HATE to say it, The Apple iPhone IMAP client "gets it right"	17:55
furunk3l	siriusnova, thats not the point	17:55
siriusnova	yeap	17:55
furunk3l	i heavily use the phone for my company mails	17:56
SpeedEvil	Making it configurable is the right way	17:56
furunk3l	with imap you just download the sent mails to your desktop computer	17:56
javispedro	well, use POP3 =)	17:56
siriusnova	but there needs to be a setting for downloading email messages and headers	17:56
furunk3l	and you are all set	17:56
siriusnova	pop3 wipes out the mailbox no?	17:57
furunk3l	javispedro, i dont want all my company mails on the phone	17:57
furunk3l	i want them on the server	17:57
furunk3l	and synced	17:57
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DocScrutinizer	hah I know, I'll send me all the manpages per mail :-P	17:57
mtnbkr	siriusnova: not necessarily. most POP3 apps offer a "delete mail after downloading" option or somesuch	17:57
* DocScrutinizer giggles insanely		17:57
mtnbkr	DocScrutinizer: put them in your Sent folder.	17:57
siriusnova	but doesnt the iphone mail app use imap	17:58
* mtnbkr ducks		17:58
furunk3l	imap-idle is the way to go	17:58
siriusnova	and manage to have local copies of your mail	17:58
siriusnova	how does that work	17:58
furunk3l	implement imap-idle in modest	17:58
mtnbkr	siriusnova: I htink you can choose on iPhone POP or IMAP... I OLNY and ALWAYS use IMAP though.	17:58
javispedro	again, modest is oss.	17:58
siriusnova	me too	17:58
DocScrutinizer	IMAP is as insaner as http-manpages	17:59
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: modest is crap :-D	18:00
javispedro	oh, it all depends on what features you want	18:00
DocScrutinizer	ack	18:00
DocScrutinizer	just kidding	18:01
javispedro	I still like the UI so on N810 I ended up heavily patching it	18:01
javispedro	didn't have facepalming issues on the N900 yet with it so i'm still using the pr1.0 one	18:01
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mtnbkr	javispedro: I did... Mail currently is unuseable to me: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8574	18:03
povbot	Bug 8574: Subfolders of Zimbra IMAP server not appearing/not available	18:03
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DocScrutinizer	I hate the missing option to select different "from" for same account. For mailaccounts with multiple aliases	18:04
javispedro	mtnbkr: ask him what kind of problems he meant. if it's anything other than "the modest data store format has changed" I'd say patch and build.	18:05
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mtnbkr	and then I find out that sent messages are not copied to server... sigh... They really should have thought the email app out before release.	18:05
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: ha. I use fake pop3 accounts on my server for that =)	18:06
mtnbkr	javispedro: will do . goona ask for the exact steps after expl,aining that I am an experienced Linux/Unix admin ;)	18:06
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tybollt	http://gizmodo.com/5302097/giz-bill-nye-explains-the-iphone-3gss-oleophobic-screen/gallery/	18:08
javispedro	http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2009/07/iphonegrease_01.jpg find the 9 differences	18:10
javispedro	s/find/spot	18:10
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SplasPood	Hrm, are there any maemo RSS/Atom readers that'll do notifications on new feed items?	18:12
RST38h	javispedro: I guess you have to try with olive oil to see the difference...	18:13
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javispedro	or apple fan boy dna in your oil excreting cells...	18:16
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* GeneralAntilles expects it's time to give in and just CC on bugs like a normal person.		18:17
w00t	GeneralAntilles: seems sane!	18:17
RST38h	javispedro: you mean, even their excretions are slick and shiny?	18:17
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GeneralAntilles	w00t, for a while I was trying to track all new changes, but there's just too much stuff that I don't care about.	18:17
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w00t	GeneralAntilles: frankly, I don't think there are enough hours in the day	18:18
GeneralAntilles	w00t, there used to be plenty.	18:18
w00t	yeah..	18:18
w00t	but things have kinda grown a little	18:18
javispedro	RST38h: :)	18:18
GeneralAntilles	w00t, but then Fremantle hit and the number of incoming reports quadrupled.	18:18
w00t	I used to be able to track talk without spending 6 hours a day on there, too	18:19
GeneralAntilles	Last 24 hours we have 32 UNCONFIRMED reports.	18:19
GeneralAntilles	226 bugs changed in the last 48 hours.	18:19
* w00t nods		18:19
GeneralAntilles	w00t, well, the good news with Talk is that most of it isn't worth paying any attention to. ;)	18:19
w00t	(that rate of incoming reports is a bit worrying, are they all being triaged?)	18:19
w00t	psh	18:19
RST38h	General: Need a cool Flash UI to see those	18:19
GeneralAntilles	w00t, no.	18:19
w00t	I'll have you know I used to enjoy talk	18:19
GeneralAntilles	w00t, Andre's very good at picking them all up EVENTUALLY	18:19
w00t	hrrm.	18:20
andre__	no, they are not all triaged...	18:20
GeneralAntilles	w00t, with Talk, I can open up New Posts in the morning, go through 8 pages of threads and maybe open 2 or 3 in tabs.	18:20
GeneralAntilles	w00t, we really need more triagers. . . .	18:20
w00t	GeneralAntilles: is that a hint? :-(	18:20
GeneralAntilles	w00t, g	18:20
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w00t	actually, I do have one bug I can close, because it's useless keeping it open	18:20
* w00t finds it		18:21
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Stskeeps	w00t, take over as default assignee for mer bugs	18:21
Stskeeps	:	18:21
w00t	Stskeeps: sure, if you don't mind me pestering you 24x7	18:21
Stskeeps	w00t: you already do	18:21
w00t	Stskeeps: good point. go ahead! :P	18:21
Sargun_Screen	/j #ubu	18:22
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Stskeeps	do we have one or two bugmasters atm, btw?	18:22
Sargun_Screen	errgle.	18:22
GeneralAntilles	One	18:22
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GeneralAntilles	Karsten's on loan.	18:22
Stskeeps	cos Karsten seems mentioned at times	18:23
Stskeeps	k	18:23
pupnik	and he deserves a cookie	18:23
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, no cookies until 3.4 is live!	18:23
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andre__	Karsten is in the background currently, as I want him to fully concentrate on getting 3.4 running	18:24
andre__	so, yes, he is around, but not very visible	18:24
andre__	once we have 3.4 it's time to see how to continue	18:24
Stskeeps	:nod: good to have someone cracking on the technical side	18:25
andre__	oh yeah, because I suck with such stuff	18:25
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w00t	andre__: you might not suck, but your time is probably more valuable elsewhere	18:25
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w00t	..at least I think that's a more positive way of viewing it ;)	18:26
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andre__	w00t, hehe	18:26
* w00t takes a look at recent reports in bugs.		18:26
GeneralAntilles	If anybody wants to be a winner, save yourself a search like this https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?bug_file_loc=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&chfield=%5BBug%20creation%5D&chfieldfrom=1d	18:26
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GeneralAntilles	and see if you can't poke at 5 of those bugs a day.	18:26
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javispedro	doesn't work! doesn't work!	18:27
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w00t	I have no idea why, but that failed horribly	18:27
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GeneralAntilles	Hrm, works here.	18:27
GeneralAntilles	Bugzilla URL cleansing still confuses me.	18:27
GeneralAntilles	Well, UNCONFIRMED bugs whose [Bug creation] date was in the last 24 hours.	18:28
w00t	agreed	18:28
javispedro	bah, the quips are more boring every day	18:28
javispedro	"hi" is not a quip	18:28
javispedro	quipsquad!! where are thou!!	18:28
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javispedro	noooooooooooo	18:29
javispedro	not even gettext crossbuilds	18:29
javispedro	this is plain sick	18:29
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pupnik	i love deps like gettext	18:29
pupnik	should be here somewhere	18:30
pupnik	but i cant fix such things for builder	18:30
javispedro	i am trying http://gentooarm.powderluv.org/ and see if I can get to the 50th package without having to poke the ebuilds	18:30
pupnik	neat javispedro .. but why	18:32
javispedro	cause I want a better chroot than debian's armv4	18:33
ali1234	javispedro: there are binaries available of that you know	18:33
javispedro	without nls (don't ask)	18:34
hrw	ali1234: binaries are for pussies	18:34
mtnbkr	lol	18:34
pupnik	i was tempted to play with chroot but it doesnt help maemo	18:34
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hrw	building modest 3.2.x takes too much time	18:34
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hrw	I wonder about system-upgrades/ repo creation	18:35
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ali1234	javispedro: actually i'm not sure that's the same overlay	18:35
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pupnik	ali1234: is anyone doing a gles psx plugin?	18:42
ali1234	no idea	18:43
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ali1234	i heard that 3d acceleration for the gpu does not help much with psx, cos it's so simple	18:43
pupnik	shit. i hears some talk of it last year	18:43
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ali1234	it's certainly my experience with desktop emulators that the GL plugins are flaky, crashy, glitchy etc, and software is almost perfect emulation	18:44
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Kajko	you're right about psx	18:44
ali1234	i think i might have read it in a comment in the psx4all source :)	18:44
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ali1234	either that or some blog while looking for an arm dynarec	18:45
hrw	Preparing to replace modest 3.0.17-rc66+0m5 (using .../modest_3.2.13-0.hrw1_i386.deb) ...	18:45
Zeddy	anyone care to tell me how i get QT Network components installed on the n900?	18:46
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woglinde	jo	18:46
Zeddy	i tried installing som qt4dev packages but no work.. :\	18:46
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hrw	Zeddy: apt-cache search qt network	18:46
Dassu	Is it normal that my ping to my AP is like "28ms"	18:47
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Dassu	I tested it with my laptop in the same location and ping came out to be 0.5ms	18:47
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Zeddy	libqt4-maemo5-network-dbg	18:48
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Dassu	also on this network n900 has really slow connection speed in certain aspects	18:48
Dassu	like ssh takes years	18:48
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Dassu	oke, not years but like 5mins	18:48
Zeddy	thats years in ssh language	18:49
Zeddy	:P	18:49
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Dassu	gotta try to connect directly to the ip. Just in case it is the same server O_o	18:49
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mtnbkr	Dassu: ssh from my wired desktop to my wifi N900 takes about <1 second	18:49
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mtnbkr	Dassu: if you are ssh'ing OUT of the n900 to another machine it could be a simple reverse DNS issue causing what appears to be a long delay in connecting	18:50
Dassu	yeah, eeven to the AP the ssh takes a loing time O_o	18:50
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Dassu	mtnbkr: Tried with the IP to	18:51
Dassu	o	18:51
mtnbkr	that doe snto mappter. sounds like reverse dns. When you ssh to a server the server can be configured to do a reverse lookup of the IP you are coming from. If there is no mapping, this can sometimes cause the long delays you are describing	18:52
Zeddy	hrw, you rock..	18:52
Zeddy	i found the missing parts...	18:52
mtnbkr	s/doe snto mappter/does not matter/	18:52
mtnbkr	Dassu: see if you can disable reverse DNS lookups on the servers/devices you are trying to ssh into	18:52
Dassu	oh	18:54
Dassu	I'll try that	18:54
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SpeedEvil	Is there a chiming clock in the repos anywhere?	18:55
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Dassu	mtnbkr: oke	18:56
Dassu	mtnbkr: helped a lot	18:56
Dassu	but damnit	18:56
Dassu	I dont have access to another box I use :D	18:57
Dassu	wait	18:57
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Dassu	testing...	18:58
odin_	seen t-tan	18:59
Dassu	its seems like it works if I have just used the browser O_o	18:59
mtnbkr	Looks like my IMAP Sent folder issues were already in the bugs database and I was directed to "vote" here for an appropriate possible fix: http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/keep_sent_and_drafts_on_imap_server/?net_nemein_favourites_execute=fav&net_nemein_favourites_execute_for=18fca2043b5b11dea696b58b2eb67fd17fd1&net_nemein_favourites_url=/news/favorites/json/fav/org_maemo_brainstorm_idea_solution/18fca2043b5b11dea696b58b2eb67fd17fd1/	19:00
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mtnbkr	ug	19:00
mtnbkr	sorry... tinyurl to follow	19:00
Dassu	h mm...	19:00
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mtnbkr	http://tinyurl.com/ydjuet7	19:01
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Dassu	yeah...	19:01
Dassu	wtf	19:01
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SpeedEvil	lol	19:02
SpeedEvil	check first and last solutions	19:02
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mtnbkr	Dassu: it is also possible that the resolving library on the server caches negative lookups for a while which would explain that behavior	19:02
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Dassu	well	19:03
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mtnbkr	SpeedEvil: Yep... I voted down all the others and then voted up #1 and #11 which are exactly the same thing :)	19:03
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Dassu	my connection works great if I launch the browser at the same time O_o	19:04
Dassu	otherwise it takes a minute	19:04
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Dassu	is it possible that the wlan is in power save?	19:05
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mtnbkr	SpeedEvil: any idea how much water brainstorm holds with Nokia? I mean, seems like a lot of people (well 161 last time I clicked) want this IMAP sent folder thing fxed in a sensible manner... Does Nokia even care or pay attention to brainstorm?	19:06
Dassu	ill disable the power save just to check	19:06
Damion2	erk	19:07
SpeedEvil	Does Nokia even care or pay attention to brainstorm?	19:08
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Dassu	yeah	19:08
Damion2	I just typed halt before removing the battery instead of using the button and when I powered it back on it reset my date	19:08
siriusnova	nokia doesnt care about maemo	19:08
siriusnova	:p	19:08
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mtnbkr	siriusnova: lol	19:08
Damion2	I wonder what other settings are lost :-/	19:08
Dassu	seeems to be faster with no power save	19:08
SpeedEvil	Damion2: type sync three times first :)	19:08
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siriusnova	maemo is the red headed step child of Nokia, its better in every way but Symbian will always be Nokia's First Love so it gets the most attention	19:09
mtnbkr	and click your heels	19:09
SpeedEvil	shutdown -t 0 now -halt	19:09
Damion2	SpeedEvil: heh	19:09
Damion2	I don't know why it ran me through the localisation stfuf	19:09
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Damion2	I guess halt doesn't run the same rc stuff has a power down and so left some semaphore somewhere which made poweron think it was postreset	19:09
Dassu	oke	19:10
mtnbkr	Dassu: hmm, I have power save enabled on mine, and it connects instantly to my server.	19:10
Dassu	take that back	19:10
Myrtti	siriusnova: maemo requires rough love, but it doesn't mean it will be any less loved ;-)	19:10
Dassu	I take that back	19:10
siriusnova	Myrtti	19:10
siriusnova	what are you doing here	19:10
siriusnova	D:	19:10
siriusnova	arent you supposed to be in buntuland	19:10
siriusnova	:p	19:11
Dassu	at first it connected fast	19:11
tybollt	I don't see why symbian has to be ! maemo	19:11
tybollt	let them coexist	19:11
Kajko	i hope guys at the top at Nokia push for Maemo to be their top os... to hell with Symbian	19:11
tybollt	symbian has its niche	19:11
tybollt	no	19:11
tybollt	symbian doesn't need to die	19:11
Myrtti	siriusnova: maemo is what I do for bread and a bottle of wine	19:11
woglinde	with qt's maemo and symbian port its easy to make apps for both	19:11
siriusnova	oh	19:11
Kajko	not saying die.... just make it for lower end devices	19:12
tybollt	Kajko: that's what it is today :)	19:12
Kajko	yes	19:12
tybollt	symbian doesn't need less love... it's about maemo needing more love	19:12
siriusnova	^	19:12
tybollt	now how do we convey this to espoo? :)	19:13
Myrtti	tybollt: as long as symbian is their goose of golden eggs, it will be loved to keep laying golden eggs to fund maemo	19:14
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Myrtti	tybollt: though, the birth of symbian foundation is a sign of a goose coup being rebuilt	19:15
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tybollt	anyway I long for the day when maemo becomes a ... non-enthusiast OS.	19:16
Dassu	mtnbkr: Hmm, do you have static IP set?	19:17
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mtnbkr	Dassu: no not on N900	19:17
Dassu	yeah.	19:17
Dassu	All the other networks work fine but I have static IP for this one	19:17
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tybollt	if you need static ip on your n900 - set it via dhcpd	19:18
Dassu	I'm gonna keep on testing this	19:18
mtnbkr	Dassu: and I just verified that I don't have a reverseDNS Ip mapping either, but 99.999% sure I have disbaled reverseDNS lookups on my ssh server for the exact reason I mentioned. :)	19:18
Dassu	mtnbkr: well. when I set power_save off	19:18
hrw	tybollt: no, symbian does not have its niche beacuse it is not niche product. maemo is niche product.	19:18
Dassu	mtnbkr: It all works normally	19:18
Dassu	O_o	19:18
odin_	Stskeeps, have you tried compiling latest kernel without https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7972	19:19
povbot	Bug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found	19:19
Dassu	I have tried that for like 10 times now	19:19
mtnbkr	Interesting. well, at least you have a "fix" :)	19:19
Dassu	also tried the medium power save	19:19
Dassu	same problem	19:19
hrw	odin_: you can build kernel without fiasco-gen	19:19
odin_	hrw, just not with dpkg-buildpackage	19:20
hrw	odin_: I do not use it	19:20
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Stskeeps	odin_: - a fix is in progress. but yes, with modification it is entirely possible.	19:26
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woglinde	hms why garage accounts are not connected to talk	19:30
lcuk	because single signon is not yet reached unity	19:31
woglinde	lcuk nokia should hire another admin	19:32
woglinde	for maemo	19:32
Stskeeps	i suggest we clone X-Fade	19:32
* johnsu01 is wondering about best practices for changelog, version numbers etc for packages ported from debian		19:33
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woglinde	johnsu01 debian-versionmaemao1	19:33
woglinde	args	19:33
woglinde	maemo1	19:33
hrw	johnsu01: debian: 2.3.4-5 so maemo: 2.3.4-5m1	19:33
woglinde	at the and	19:33
hrw	or 2.3.4-5maemo1	19:33
Stskeeps	johnsu01: there's a policy	19:33
woglinde	hrw m?	19:33
woglinde	m suckz	19:33
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hrw	woglinde: it does indeed - thats why nOkia uses it	19:34
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woglinde	old policy said maemo	19:34
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johnsu01	cool, glad I asked	19:35
johnsu01	whereabouts is the policy documented?	19:35
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dpro	hi	19:35
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woglinde	johnsu01 somewhere in the wiki	19:35
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hrw	woglinde: "modest 3.2.13-0.hrw1" is my way	19:35
dpro	does anyone know where I can grab the data from the ambient light sensor ?	19:36
woglinde	http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Checking_Maemo_Packages	19:36
woglinde	Porting an existing Debian package	19:37
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lcuk	hrw thats cos you have a cool enough nick to make that practical	19:37
dpro	oh and I tried the 2nd (front) camera with mplayer and gstreamer and it looks horrible, not webcam bad but a lot worse more like a wrongly configured webcam in almost complete darkness ...	19:37
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SpeedEvil	dpro: try it in sunlight	19:38
SpeedEvil	Or with it within 20cm of a 100w bulb	19:38
woglinde	args the pdf	19:38
siriusnova	is there a memo.org packages website	19:38
siriusnova	kind of packages.ubuntu.com	19:38
woglinde	has the 2008 version still	19:38
siriusnova	a list of all packages	19:38
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johnsu01	woglinde: Thanks	19:38
Myrtti	siriusnova: surprisingly, yes	19:38
dpro	SpeedEvil: ah so it is _that_ bad then ?	19:38
Myrtti	no, hold on.	19:38
siriusnova	where?	19:39
Myrtti	I need coffee	19:39
* dpro just had coffee :)		19:39
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* lcuk pokes Myrtti		19:39
* Myrtti grunts, as her back is sore		19:40
woglinde	I nead bacon	19:40
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lcuk	:( Myrtti not good	19:40
lcuk	i just had bacon and egg woglinde	19:40
lcuk	was lovely	19:40
Myrtti	I had my MRI. I feel lighter now. Specifically, 410€ lighter	19:41
Myrtti	sniffles	19:41
derf	For an MRI?	19:41
derf	Cheap!	19:41
Myrtti	yeah, it is	19:41
tybollt	only in EU :)	19:41
Myrtti	it's also about half of the credit limit on my credit card	19:42
hrw	mri?	19:42
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siriusnova	410 euros for a MRI	19:42
siriusnova	OUCH!	19:42
SpeedEvil	Magnetic resonance imagary.	19:42
derf	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_resonance_imaging	19:42
siriusnova	i thought healthcare was free in Europe	19:42
siriusnova	or something	19:42
Myrtti	siriusnova: list price before national health insurance reimbursement is 700€	19:42
SpeedEvil	MRI is a _beautiful_ application of maths.	19:42
siriusnova	:(	19:42
tybollt	siriusnova: try an mri w/out insurance in .us, heh	19:42
siriusnova	oh	19:42
pupnik	1100 for my mri	19:42
siriusnova	yikes	19:42
pupnik	they are expensive machines	19:43
Myrtti	(and oh yes, this was a lower back/lumbar mri)	19:43
pupnik	what they find?	19:43
SpeedEvil	You select a slice of tissue by applying the right magnetic field and gradient, then apply a pulse of RF to excite that tissue, then manipulate the gradients a bit - and you get an output RF in terms of frequency along one axis of the slice, and phase across the other.	19:43
Myrtti	remains to be seen, but most probably a slipped disc pinching a nerve	19:44
GeneralAntilles	Myrtti, ouch.	19:44
SpeedEvil	:/	19:44
pupnik	i got fixed by surgery	19:44
GeneralAntilles	wazd, Marina came together really nicely.	19:44
Myrtti	the current diagnosis is M51.1, Lumbar and other intervertebral disc disorders with radiculopathy	19:45
luke-jr	pupnik: what was broken?	19:45
Myrtti	but for further planning of fixing whatever is broken, they need the MRI	19:45
Myrtti	anyway	19:45
Myrtti	I saw a really purty blue theme for N900 today on my google reader ♥	19:46
hrw	Myrtti: marina one?	19:49
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Myrtti	probably	19:49
Wizzup	Has anyone changed the way his nokia does some mounts?	19:53
* Wizzup personally doesn't like a /tmp/ of only 1mb		19:53
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Stskeeps	use /var/tmp for that kinda stuff	19:54
Markus23	Wizzup: yes, its not very difficult to change mountpoints	19:54
Wizzup	ok, because my app manager keeps telling me there is not enough space on the device when updating devel-extra	19:54
Markus23	does anyone know why the fstab is generated every boot?	19:54
Markus23	Wizzup: reboot first	19:54
Markus23	or do apt-get clean	19:54
woglinde	Wizzup lol	19:55
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woglinde	/tmp has nothing to with it	19:55
woglinde	+do	19:55
Wizzup	I figured, just noticed though	19:55
Wizzup	So what does cause this error?	19:56
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timeless_mbp	hey	19:56
timeless_mbp	what do i install if i want a vpnc commandline client?	19:56
woglinde	dpkg -L vpnc?	19:57
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woglinde	after apt-get install vpnc?	19:57
* dpro has to go		19:58
dpro	ttyl	19:58
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woglinde	me too	19:59
woglinde	till later	19:59
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odin_	what hours of the day does timeless sleep ?	20:05
timeless_mbp	the ones when no one notices :)	20:05
odin_	I recone you have just had a 4hrs nap	20:05
aSIMULAtor	vampire	20:05
timeless_mbp	nope, i'm working	20:06
timeless_mbp	which involves reviewing a very long powerpoint presentation	20:06
ShadowJK	do you have flextime? :-)	20:06
timeless_mbp	i use it	20:06
timeless_mbp	whether i have it is questionable	20:06
w00t	timeless_mbp: that's the best variety	20:06
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odin_	you were also working at 04:57, 11:00, 12:42	20:07
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timeless_mbp	which local time were you using?	20:08
* timeless_mbp guesses that's british		20:08
odin_	good 'ol GMT	20:09
Myrtti	crikey, where did the time go, it's 8 o'clock	20:09
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odin_	no its not.. its 6 o'clock... TV news time	20:10
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timeless_mbp	vpnc was built without openssl: Can't do hybrid or cert mode.	20:11
timeless_mbp	?	20:11
lcuk	openssl seems to be a crutch to a few programs	20:11
lcuk	isnt git also built without it	20:11
GeneralAntilles	We need to get the inter-site linking together. . . .	20:13
w00t	GeneralAntilles: what's wrong with it?	20:14
timeless_mbp	ok, so i now have a vpnc which is totally useless	20:14
timeless_mbp	why?	20:14
GeneralAntilles	w00t, too many people are ending up on maemo.org who don't belong there.	20:14
GeneralAntilles	We need to be directing them to the right place.	20:14
w00t	GeneralAntilles: mm. where are they coming from?	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Either maemo.nokia.com or Maemo @ Forum Nokia.	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Google, mostly, I suspect.	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Basically, we need to have a couple of links on the homepage at maemo.org at a minimum.	20:15
w00t	the homepage itself could use a little work I think	20:15
wazd	GeneralAntilles: thx	20:15
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w00t	explaining what maemo (and maemo.org are) would be a very good start	20:15
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GeneralAntilles	We need an Intro that isn't from early 2008.	20:15
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w00t	(yes, yes, /intro/, but that's out of date, and not the front page)	20:16
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GeneralAntilles	A paragraph like what's found on the subpages: http://maemo.org/community/	20:16
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: time to get back in council and whip the community into shape	20:16
GeneralAntilles	and I think that would improve the look.	20:16
w00t	GeneralAntilles: exactly	20:16
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, what, and set myself up to be RESPONSIBLE for things again? :P	20:16
* GeneralAntilles LIKES only doing things when he fscking feels like it. g		20:17
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: not feeling responsible or taking action on things seems to work for council members ;P	20:17
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, oooh.	20:17
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w00t	Stskeeps: REOW	20:18
w00t	:P	20:18
Stskeeps	reow?	20:18
Stskeeps	:P	20:18
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, although another term might help ensure Nokia doesn't forget me for sponsorships and protos and such in the future.	20:18
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, catfight!	20:18
w00t	Stskeeps: me making a catfight noise	20:18
w00t	^	20:18
Stskeeps	w00t: stop acting like a furry	20:18
w00t	GeneralAntilles understands me.	20:18
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, Seinfeld. ;)	20:18
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GeneralAntilles	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57l9ihMrsic	20:21
GeneralAntilles	Seriously, lardman in the sidebar.	20:22
GeneralAntilles	Is this just a conspiracy or something?	20:22
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Stskeeps	i really wonder about that too	20:25
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GeneralAntilles	What sort of kicksback is he feeding X-Fade?	20:25
GeneralAntilles	s/kicksback/kickbacks	20:26
Veggen	aaa	20:26
wazd	wow, a new bug was found in Marina :(	20:27
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GeneralAntilles	wazd, did it have anything to do with the configure button on the desktop having weird icon issues?	20:28
wazd	GeneralAntilles: you're like 10th person to report :P	20:28
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wazd	GeneralAntilles: it's not an actual bug, more like theme limitation	20:29
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GeneralAntilles	wazd, file a Hildon bug?	20:29
wazd	GeneralAntilles: that's because actual statusbar is made with 2 pieces - right "curve" and center "scalable plane"	20:29
wazd	GeneralAntilles: I've made the "curve" side to have a nice black gradient	20:30
SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D3TNScbllw - on brainstorm	20:30
GeneralAntilles	wazd, ah, I see.	20:30
wazd	GeneralAntilles: but the problem is that "configure" background doesn't use the whole "curve", only part of it. That's why gradient doesn't fit	20:31
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johnsu01	If anyone wants to test out some nethack, I have nethack-console and nethack-common. Interested in feedback to get them ready for extras-devel :)	20:34
johnsu01	They are the maemo packages in http://www.wjsullivan.net/tmp/	20:34
johnsu01	at your own risk and all, but they seem to install optified and play fine on my device	20:35
SpeedEvil	woo!	20:36
SpeedEvil	though telnet nethack.alt.org also works well	20:36
johnsu01	yeah, and Vulture's Eye is already available and pretty cool	20:36
SpeedEvil	Really needs a fullscreen termina.	20:36
johnsu01	but I'm a sucker for the classic	20:36
SpeedEvil	I can't get on with vultures eye.	20:37
SpeedEvil	It obscures the fundamental game mechanics for me.	20:37
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johnsu01	I might do the other UI's at some point too, but I ran into immediate problems with the X dependencies and I wanted the console asap	20:37
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SpeedEvil	I was pondering the UI. finger based 'travel' might be interesting.	20:38
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johnsu01	do you think the console should have a launcher from the menu?	20:39
* SpeedEvil realises his fixed bug might actually be of use.		20:39
SpeedEvil	(reported that 18/19/20 high terms crashed nethack)	20:39
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SpeedEvil	johnsu01: ?	20:40
SpeedEvil	what do you mean.	20:40
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johnsu01	SpeedEvil: I mean, should it have an icon to launch it	20:41
SpeedEvil	ah	20:41
Aranel	Hi, I need help about languages. How can I select a new language, after adding it with "add_remove_language add tr_TR" ?	20:41
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SpeedEvil	what's the *maemo_armel - and the plain armel debs?	20:41
Aranel	Settings > Language & region does not show, btw.	20:42
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johnsu01	SpeedEvil: the plain armel debs are non-optified	20:42
johnsu01	SpeedEvil: you should try the maemo version	20:42
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johnsu01	the armel ones have been tested and work fine, what I just did was rebuild with optification, fixing the package version number to be standard, proper changelog	20:43
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SpeedEvil	ah	20:43
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GeneralAntilles	Gawd, why did I get myself into another "You're all superior elitist assholes!" thread. . . .	20:48
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Stskeeps	what, the red pill one?	20:49
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GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, nah the "confusing" repositories one.	20:50
w00t	GeneralAntilles: link?	20:50
GeneralAntilles	I really think Nokia needs to pick up the slack for average user support.	20:50
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=505452	20:50
w00t	ta	20:51
GeneralAntilles	It's boredom inducing when people keep complaining that maemo.org is complicated.	20:51
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GeneralAntilles	and the whole Maemo/Nokia/maemo.org confusion makes all of those discussions 1000x less complicated. . . .	20:51
* w00t reads 'MAEMO in the original post and cringes'		20:51
w00t	er	20:51
w00t	*'MAEMO'	20:51
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Stskeeps	i vote we rename maemo.org to mer.org	20:52
Stskeeps	:P	20:52
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps Land®	20:52
w00t	hahaha.	20:52
derf	Sometimes it feels like Nokia is going down the list in http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/ and checking off boxes.	20:52
w00t	oh dear, more negativity	20:52
GeneralAntilles	derf, things are getting better, though.	20:52
Arkenoi	anyone got maemo mapper working with yandex traffic info?	20:52
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GeneralAntilles	derf, and they're certainly better than any OTHER maintsream mobile manufacturer.	20:53
derf	Yes. They have a community to destroy.	20:53
Stskeeps	derf: the step of making things mainstream is by getting rid of all the geeks ;p	20:54
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, shouldn't be a problem after Maemo 6. ;)	20:54
lcuk	timeless, ping	20:54
Myrtti	oh yes, negative attitude within the community certainly helps with the distruction	20:54
* Myrtti zones out with a cuppa tea		20:54
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RST38h	"It's not enough to have no web site at all; in such situations, the community has an irritating habit of creating sites of its own. But a flaky site can forestall the creation of those sites, ensuring that information is hard to find. "	20:57
RST38h	Oh yesssss	20:57
RST38h	Has anyone made Quim read this? =)	20:57
Stskeeps	RST38h: maemo-developers	20:57
RST38h	purrfect	20:57
Stskeeps	it was the big discussion about servers	20:58
Stskeeps	:P	20:58
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lcuk	translation question from #maemo-devel if theres any brainpower to answer it	20:59
lcuk	<Aranel> I am trying to build a translation package for Maemo 5, added .mo files to /usr/share/locale/tr_TR/LC_MESSAGES	20:59
lcuk	<Aranel> and did "add_remove_language add tr_TR" via Xterm.	20:59
lcuk	<Aranel> Its OK. But how can I select tr_TR now? It doesnt show up on Settings > Language & region"	20:59
* Jaffa likes qgil's comments about MWKN, even after he accused Quim of muddying the waters		20:59
SpeedEvil	johnsu01: Installed, and found /oSpM in the start room.	20:59
RST38h	"Community-averse corporations, Josh says, should learn from the United Nations and create lengthy, complicated processes. Keep the decision-making powers unclear; this is an effective way to turn contributors into poisonous people. Needless to say, the rules should be difficult or impossible to change. "	21:00
RST38h	Ah how true	21:00
pupnik	ty johnsu01	21:00
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, where?	21:00
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Which bit? He was +ve on Twitter and I quoted him about Maemo 6 on N900	21:01
SpeedEvil	johnsu01: have you been screwing with the RNG? Stealth boots too first room :)	21:01
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, saw the quote, wondering about the comments.	21:02
johnsu01	SpeedEvil: lol, no, haven't changed anything :)	21:02
johnsu01	pupnik: welcome!	21:02
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pupnik	it is uncomplicated to contribute if you are not stupid	21:02
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: presuaambly visible under http://twitter.com/quimqil	21:03
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, damnit, I hate having to pay attention to twitter.	21:03
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: You don't need to make a habit of it with MWKN ,)	21:04
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pronto	when i plug the usb cable in, for the computer, it just goes staight to charging	21:04
andres	Any idea why I get a BADSIG error with repository.maemo.org/extras?	21:05
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: what would be the earliest mentions about maemo.org as a community?	21:06
mikhas	did I miss the PDF link for the MWKN? I want to easily consume it on my "ebook reader"	21:06
SpeedEvil	pronto: does the n900 show up on lsusb?	21:06
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, how do you mean?	21:06
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: how things got started	21:07
pronto	SpeedEvil: the odd thing is, it worked yesterday	21:07
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, like, when things switched from being Nokia to community?	21:07
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: well, when things started moving in that direction	21:07
pronto	SpeedEvil: yes it shows up	21:07
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GeneralAntilles	Well, the new branding guidelines were posted in early 2008.	21:07
GeneralAntilles	So around late 2007/early 2008.	21:07
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, sound right?	21:08
Jaffa	Sounds roughly right	21:08
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Stskeeps	just pondering the original intention with the community	21:08
Jaffa	But planet's much older than that, for example	21:08
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, maemo.org was never particularly Nokia-oriented.	21:08
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Jaffa	And the mailing lists date back to 2005	21:08
Jaffa	(apart from -community, of course)	21:09
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* GeneralAntilles remembers the giant application wiki page fondly.		21:09
* Jaffa shudders		21:09
GeneralAntilles	Ehehe	21:09
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Jaffa	Could've been worse: what about the "apps wanted" page	21:09
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, but it was so fun loading it up every week or so and hunting for new screenshots. :P	21:09
GeneralAntilles	Ha	21:09
GeneralAntilles	Right	21:09
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Jaffa	And people claim the Maemo community's become less technical ;)	21:10
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: didn't you use my Application_Catalog RSS feed?! :-p	21:10
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I've never been able to get myself to use RSS.	21:11
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lcuk	the maemo "community" has changed, from pretty much everyone knowing everyone, like in a commune, to being more like a town or city. you can walk out of your door and see different people you dont know	21:11
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odin_	t-tan, ping	21:11
t-tan	odin_: pong	21:11
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, no more free love! You pay!	21:12
Jaffa	lcuk: largely true, but there's always been a large silent group who just get on with shit.	21:12
lcuk	indeed jaffa	21:12
odin_	t-tan, I have a debhelper5 patch for scratchbox, adding --prefix (just a little more checking/testing to do on it)	21:12
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles, i always paid!	21:12
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: five dorrar	21:12
Jaffa	lcuk: with blood!	21:12
t-tan	odin_: cool! where can I download it?	21:12
lcuk	thats just pointing out the obvious lol	21:13
* Jaffa reckons we'll know when the NX01 is nearing release as lcuk'll lose another finger		21:13
GeneralAntilles	Haha	21:13
mikhas	Jaffa, is there a PDF version of MWKN?	21:13
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lcuk	jaffa, push n900 party, thursday night london centre, theres tix available for yourself and anidel if you like	21:13
Jaffa	mikhas: Not yet, I'm afraid. But single HTML and PDF downloads are planned	21:13
lcuk	hahahahahaha	21:13
mikhas	cool	21:13
lcuk	no fudging way, i have a keyfob now	21:14
mikhas	single HTML would suffice, aye	21:14
lcuk	had*	21:14
Jaffa	lcuk: ah cool, I'll ask the missus for a pass	21:14
Jaffa	lcuk: will let you know. would be good.	21:14
lcuk	i am having transport problems, but if i can be there i will	21:14
lcuk	you are on the guest list tho	21:14
odin_	t-tan, please take a look, this is a beta and still needs checking over from someone who knows better than me: http://www.darrylmiles.org/temp/maemo/debhelper-5.0.42.20100131.dlm.diff	21:14
* lcuk is going to fosdem the next day		21:15
Dassu	anything similar to the spotify for maemo. Something non-flash :P	21:15
Dassu	?	21:15
odin_	t-tan, if you use dpkg-buildpackage is fails the unit-tests (you have to install the changes manually over /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/ and then re-run dpkg-buildpackage (the self hosting ./run script is broken inside scratchbox :( )	21:17
frals	there are spotify clients if thats what you are after	21:17
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pupnik	odin_: that could make optification much simpler, yes?	21:18
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t-tan	odin_: thanks. looks good, similiar to what I had planned. I'd add a DH_PREFIX env.var which overwrites the prefix for all dh_ commands	21:18
t-tan	odin_: would you mind updating it for debhelper7? debhelper5 is dead	21:19
odin_	pupnik, yes the patch is to improve the process, as some stuff still ends up in /usr/share/... and such, you just need to set in debian/rules: export DH_OPTIONS=--prefix=/usr/local	21:19
Stskeeps	not on maemo	21:19
Stskeeps	:P	21:19
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odin_	t-tan, yes that was my next chore, when I am happy its good, work with current debhelper version	21:20
* lcuk giggles @ Stskeeps		21:20
Jaffa	lcuk: excellent, should I let you know or email someone else? (Actually, whereabouts in London is it?)	21:20
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Dassu	frals: yes, but they require premium account	21:20
t-tan	odin_: oh, right. DH_OPTION is a better option :) the debhelper7 testsuite works	21:21
lcuk	jaffa, ill send a mail to all 3 of us, for some reason i thought you were already included	21:21
frals	yes, afaik only the official "desktop" version can be run without a premium acc	21:21
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odin_	t-tan, actually I need to check for --prefix=/usr/local return "usr/local" no leading or trailing slashes (just to make it work as expected for users, just in case a trailing slash is important to something, needs to canonizalise the path to "usr/local"	21:22
t-tan	I hope we can someday get true optification, i.e everything is under /opt/package and relevant files are linked in /opt/maemo/*	21:23
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Sef24	hello	21:23
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odin_	t-tan, I think flash price/size will get better, so 1Gb is not a problem in 2 years time	21:23
Sef24	today I selled my TP2, totally sick of WinMo	21:24
Sef24	niw the good news	21:24
Sef24	Tomorrow, I have my new N900	21:24
odin_	t-tan, but still needs to make package management scalable but work with anticipated rootfs size increases with time	21:24
Sef24	so now my question	21:24
t-tan	odin_: it's not only about space (and I want to use my N900 now) but about good design	21:25
Sef24	I have a Windows Mobile PIM file, created with PIM backup	21:25
konttori	timeless: is browser using libjpeg to load jpegs?	21:25
Sef24	how I can import this in Maemo?	21:25
Sef24	Google don't find anything	21:25
timeless_mbp	it's probably using gecko's libjpeg...	21:25
timeless_mbp	about:buildconfig should say	21:25
* timeless_mbp is @dinner		21:25
konttori	ah, well, we just added neon code to encoding and decodings.	21:25
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Sef24	anybody?	21:26
konttori	it improves jpeg load times 2x	21:26
timeless_mbp	given that i don't trust your team not to introduce security vulnerabilities	21:26
timeless_mbp	about:buildconfig says --with-system-jpeg	21:26
konttori	great!	21:26
timeless_mbp	which means you've probably just added 10 security vulnerabilities	21:26
konttori	lol! Should be fun then	21:26
timeless_mbp	please send a memo to avs	21:26
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, we don't want Maemo to be boring.	21:27
t-tan	odin_: Nokia would merely need to add /opt/maemo to the search paths for bin, lib, man, icons, apps etc	21:27
konttori	who is avs?	21:27
timeless_mbp	/whois =b	21:27
pupnik	someone pls listen to t-tan	21:27
timeless_mbp	konttori: please keep in mind that the browser gets png/bmp/pcx/gif marked as jpeg	21:27
Stskeeps	t-tan: and pkg-config and so on..	21:27
timeless_mbp	and it also gets and expects to render incomplete files	21:27
konttori	oh, that guy. Sure, will do. I have other matter I need to discuss with him anyway	21:27
Stskeeps	t-tan: the list is very long	21:27
konttori	timeless_mbp: the code segments are very clear parts of the decoding (and encoding process).	21:28
mikhas	Sef24, the way you import contacts with the N900 are vcards	21:28
konttori	Also, the code was ported from upstream for the most part by serge.	21:28
t-tan	Stskeeps: i don't think so. most of it can already be done by modifying /etc/profile or osso-startup	21:28
Sef24	ok	21:28
Sef24	Look	21:28
konttori	anyway, the gain is significant.	21:29
timeless_mbp	oh, this is a backport?	21:29
Sef24	I don't have a windows phone anymore	21:29
mikhas	so I guess you'd need a tool to convert your PIM backup to vcards, or have an exchange server nearby?	21:29
konttori	timeless_mbp: for a part, yes	21:29
konttori	but not entirely	21:29
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Sef24	I have a WinMo Emulator	21:29
Sef24	can I de backup it on there	21:29
Sef24	and dump it in vcards?	21:29
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mikhas	Sef24, try http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32908	21:31
mikhas	keywords: active sync, outlook, exchange, nokia pc suite	21:31
mikhas	hope that helps	21:32
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odin_	t-tan, yes... I am trying to isolate the issues, but I think some people at Nokia think that optified package should be compiled with --prefix=/usr and I think that is incorrect, they should all be --prefix=/usr/local and its the /usr/local tree that gets the symlinks (this leave the main rootfs largely unchanged, and so less issue with NSU/SSO)	21:32
Sef24	I don't have Outlook or Exchange nearby	21:32
Sef24	only a PIM backup .PIM file	21:33
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Sef24	I can extract it on a winmo emulator	21:33
Sef24	then I only need a way to dump it in vCards	21:33
Stskeeps	konttori: BTW, is the reason you optify things inside /usr/share/themes/<themename> and not the <themename> folder itself, due to a bug in the theme chooser?	21:33
konttori	timeless_mbp: the parts of neon optimizations are not touching the envelope handling any way, so there is no change to the "png/bmp/pcx/gif marked as jpeg"	21:33
konttori	Stskeeps: yes	21:33
timeless_mbp	konttori: ok, but what about the malformed jpeg? :)	21:33
t-tan	odin_: fully agreed. but why /usr/local and not /opt?	21:34
konttori	timeless_mbp: should work exactly the same as previously. Just faster	21:34
timeless_mbp	btw, i'm not sure jpeg's are that common on the web anyway	21:34
Stskeeps	konttori: alright, we ran into it when running maemo-optify - thanks for telling me	21:34
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odin_	t-tan, /usr/local is the traditional place to have a fill unix like tree, like /usr/local/etc /usr/local/bin /usr/local/share /usr/local/lib	21:34
konttori	timeless_mbp: Interesting opinion. I would assume most of the bigger graphic elements are jpegs in sites.	21:35
odin_	t-tan, where as /opt is the traditional place to put /opt/AdobeAcrobat9.2/ and /opt/SunJvm1.6u18 (large things that standalone and do not conform to Unix like filesystem layouts)	21:35
t-tan	odin_: according to LSB /usr/local is for stuff not maintained by pkg management.	21:35
timeless_mbp	not if they want transparency	21:35
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konttori	Stskeeps: yeah, definitely, you should optify themes with optifying all subfolders the the themefolder itself	21:35
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konttori	timeless_mbp: yes, not if they need transparency, as most content does not.	21:35
timeless_mbp	looks like the pictures on youtube are .jpg	21:36
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odin_	t-tan, then according to LSB we should package all the optified stuff and symlink from /usr/bin/foo (since that falls under package management)	21:36
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konttori	timeless_mbp: I just took random site that I visit: http://www.joystiq.com/ -> most of the image content is jpeg.	21:37
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konttori	(used web developer extension, page info to find out9	21:38
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wolf^	timeless, are you joking about those jpegs?	21:38
Stskeeps	i sense a bit of sarcasm	21:38
t-tan	odin_: there is apparently no consensus, but have look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard	21:38
jophish	At the moment the partition table for the internal card is a 27gb ext3 partition, then a 2gb fat partition and 700mb swap, would there be any problem is shrinking the fat to 1gb, and expanding the swap to 1.7gb and the obviously reformatting the fat partition?	21:38
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timeless_mbp	?	21:39
lcuk	konttori, a lot of site graphics are pngs and gifs, a lot of site content is jpeg	21:39
SpeedEvil	bigger swap won't help	21:39
SpeedEvil	by the time you're 768m deep in swap - you're almost certainly dead	21:39
GeneralAntilles	jophish, swap EXT3 and FAT there . . . .	21:40
timeless_mbp	http://s.ytimg.com/yt/img/master-vfl141814.png	21:40
jophish	ok, thanks	21:40
timeless_mbp	the youtube graphic is actually a tile thingy	21:40
jophish	what do you mean GeneralAntilles	21:40
t-tan	GeneralAntilles: not here :)	21:40
timeless_mbp	so it's one file w/ all the youtube art	21:40
timeless_mbp	the rest of the stuff is "content" as lcuk categorized it	21:40
t-tan	SpeedEvil: agree	21:40
wolf^	timeless_mbp, now try to find some photos in png	21:40
GeneralAntilles	t-tan, the 27GB is FAT, the 2GB is EXT3.	21:40
jophish	I ahve swapped them around	21:40
GeneralAntilles	Ah, I see.	21:41
GeneralAntilles	Well	21:41
jophish	really, I would like to get rid of the blasted fat fs totally	21:41
odin_	jophish, 1.7gb of SWAP ? for a mobile device?	21:41
t-tan	GeneralAntilles: I swapped them too	21:41
GeneralAntilles	jophish, some stuff may break.	21:41
konttori	lcuk: timeless_mbp: yes, that's a fair generalization (what lcuk said)	21:41
GeneralAntilles	jophish, really not worth worrying about.	21:41
jophish	odin_, well, I thought it might be better than 1gb of wasted fat space	21:41
t-tan	jophish: we have thread/brainstorm for that http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37869	21:41
timeless_mbp	wolf^: well, the question is how much 'content' do people encounter v. 'chrome'	21:41
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jophish	yeah, been reading that a bit t-tan	21:42
lcuk	konttori, your original point though, optimizations. they are really noticable?	21:42
wolf^	timeless_mbp, I think amount of png content is insignificant, when compared to jpegs	21:42
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odin_	jophish, if I were you, I'd worry about your partition layout after you have, 1) filled your 2Gb ext3 filesystem, 2) explored the used of the microSD port for mounting 16Gb cards that you can wear out and replace and also partition how you want	21:42
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konttori	lcuk: look at the statistics on the internal bugzilla.	21:43
konttori	the encoding speed is near to DSP capability after those optimizations	21:43
lcuk	yeah ive read it, i just havent had a chance to reflash and try em	21:44
jophish	odin_, I was planning on symlinking some things like /var/ and /usr/ to the internal card	21:44
konttori	should be pretty darn visible in image viewers thumbnail view	21:44
jophish	running out of space on /	21:44
timeless_mbp	wolf^: load about:cache?device=memory	21:44
* lcuk msiles heartily		21:44
lcuk	smiles	21:44
konttori	which is loading jpegs like mad.	21:44
timeless_mbp	in my gecko, i have way more .png files than i have .jpg flies	21:44
timeless_mbp	s/flies/files/	21:44
t-tan	odin_: if you sync with a POSIX file system on your desktop, your home is filled very soon...	21:44
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konttori	timeless_mbp: probably also depends on sites you visit	21:44
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timeless_mbp	konttori: certainly	21:45
odin_	t-tan, what are you syncing ? I can understand content? but what in /home ?	21:45
lcuk	i dont think ive ever seen png porn	21:45
Stskeeps	so the issue is the usage of maemo libjpeg6b vs gecko libjpeg?	21:45
timeless_mbp	lcuk: you mean you've never seen people compose pr0n out of two otherwise innocent images? :)	21:45
lcuk	konttori, harryf was also talking about some optimization hes making to tables in qt, for a small compromise you can get much faster rendering of them :)	21:46
jophish	odin_, all of my stuff on my desktop is in home /home/images /home/documents	21:46
odin_	and N900 and an IPhone (p0rn!)	21:46
w00t	timeless_mbp: I have 3k .jpg in my cache, 2k png, 2k gif	21:46
wolf^	timeless_mbp, I don't see the content I have loaded on that page	21:46
lcuk	timeless, sure, but fakes are normally helped by a bit of jpeg artifacts	21:46
w00t	(fyi)	21:46
jophish	not in the silly Mydocs folder	21:46
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: check about:buildconfig	21:46
timeless_mbp	at least the build i'm using says --with-system-jpeg	21:47
t-tan	odin_: scripts, symlinks, documents, music etc	21:47
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: yes, system jpeg	21:47
timeless_mbp	which means we aren't build the gecko one	21:47
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: i'm just wondering what the issue is, security issues in libjpeg?	21:47
timeless_mbp	konttori: this also means you're on hook for any security issues either from your changes	21:47
odin_	jophish, okay I'm not into this syncing of $HOME data (my $HOME has a 66 Gb partition for it and I'm the only user, 50% full mind!)	21:47
timeless_mbp	or from mainline which happen to need fixing	21:47
lcuk	Stskeeps, history of image formats having security vulns	21:47
lcuk	or rather, parsers thereof	21:47
Stskeeps	lcuk: well, yes	21:48
konttori	timeless_mbp: isn't that the way it always is?	21:48
timeless_mbp	konttori: most of the time people don't seem to take any responsibility	21:48
timeless_mbp	so, 'no'	21:48
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timeless_mbp	what i mean, is that i hold you personally responsible :)	21:48
konttori	lcuk: sounds interesting. Provided that he feels those are usually acceptable compromises. He should know	21:48
t-tan	odin_: it's just much cleaner. I know that I'll hardly ever need a FAT fs - so why keep it	21:49
lcuk	konttori, if its an optimization pathway that could be identified when filling a table and used in specific case then its a real win	21:49
konttori	timeless_mbp: well, hold me or don't. I haven't coded the part and I am not in position to evaluate it. As far as I know, it should not raise any new security issues.	21:49
jophish	odin_, what would you (or anyone else) recommend symlinking out of / to /home. /var/cache seems like a good example	21:49
konttori	that's as far as I go.	21:49
timeless_mbp	konttori: as long as if any are found you help get a fix delivered	21:50
timeless_mbp	i'm not going to hold you to personally fix it	21:50
konttori	lcuk: so, sounds like it's not affecting the other cases then at all.	21:50
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timeless_mbp	but you will either get it fixed and delivered or let us revert the optimization / upgrade to unoptimized and deliver something	21:50
pupnik	t-tan: such solutions cannot be mainstreamed	21:50
konttori	timeless_mbp: I'll have guys in there until fremantle maintenance is stopped.	21:50
t-tan	jophish: my restore scripts automatically moves: usr/share/icons usr/share/nokia-maps usr/share/themes usr/share/fonts usr/share/locale usr/lib/locale var/lib/apt	21:50
konttori	and I would assume those fixes also go to harmattan pretty quickly	21:50
timeless_mbp	konttori: getting fixes internally isn't the same as delivering them	21:50
lcuk	konttori, i dont know if hes finished it, it was just a brief conversation i saw from him earlier that made me smile	21:50
* w00t raises an eyebrow		21:51
konttori	(or perhaps we just hold on a bit more and later 'fix performance issues' like magic	21:51
jophish	t-tan, sounds good. I'm interested in this restore script too, care to elaborate?	21:51
timeless_mbp	lcuk: what's a "Table in Qt" ?	21:51
t-tan	pupnik: it is possible. if you have a FAT loopfile and dm_loop module, there should be no need for partitions and no speed issues	21:52
lcuk	a gridview i assume, since he talks about transparent cell rendering and such	21:52
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javispedro	ah, the n900 is on slashdot again today.	21:53
odin_	t-tan, hmmm.. can we have ext3 partition and loop a FAT/VFAT image of it for USB ?	21:53
lcuk	my n900 goes on slashdot every day	21:53
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mikhas	lol!	21:53
pupnik	ahh ty t-tan .. so vfat would still exist for pc-suite users?	21:53
greenfly	I wonder whether you couldn't create a vfat plugin for fuse	21:53
t-tan	jophish: I'll upload it someday. basically it's a script I run after every reflash to restore my /etc modications, apps and FS hierarchy	21:54
greenfly	and then just expose the underlying ext3 file system as a vfat with fuse, when you want usb mass storage	21:54
GeneralAntilles	I can't believe the N900 made /. with freaking PearPC.	21:54
GeneralAntilles	WHO CARES?!	21:54
iPeter-	Hi	21:54
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: geeks who smell like dead cheese	21:54
t-tan	odin_, pupnik: yes, that's the solutions I have implemented. works fine	21:54
iPeter-	How should i import music to my phone, i did import over 10gb music to .sounds folder	21:54
iPeter-	but they doesnt seem to be on mediaplayer	21:54
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: oh, on Engadget it even made it to the non-apple feed.	21:54
odin_	greenfly, all you need to do is track the block allocations, that can be done with a backing store file	21:55
greenfly	I mean, vfat features (at least from the perspective of the user) are a subset of ext3 anyway	21:55
greenfly	no permisions, etc.	21:55
t-tan	pupnik: AFAIK you could even export multiple loop files, e.g. a FAT and a ext3	21:55
odin_	greenfly, indeed	21:55
javispedro	greenfly: it makes no sense	21:55
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range	iPeter-: Just copy the music somewhere. Can be that .sounds isn't indexed for the media player.	21:55
javispedro	greenfly: you'd need a block device emulator, not a filesystem in user space	21:55
w00t	GeneralAntilles: to be fair, any publicity is good publicity	21:55
konttori	javispedro: I meant to ask that are you using the compositor zooming or not?	21:55
konttori	(in drnoksnes)	21:56
odin_	javispedro, you can expose a % of your overall volume via USB and a sub-tree somewhere	21:56
GeneralAntilles	w00t, very much agreed, I just find it bizarre that it should be this generating the publicity.	21:56
GeneralAntilles	w00t, and not the fact that the N900 is the freaking N900. ;)	21:56
w00t	agreed	21:56
w00t	especially when it took 2 hours to actually do anything	21:56
greenfly	javispedro: you don't think that's achievable with fuse?	21:56
GeneralAntilles	Which should be directly up the alley of every person on /.	21:56
javispedro	konttori: current on -devel is using remote-texture when you select full screen in options dialog, current on git uses animation-actor through a SDL wrapper	21:56
t-tan	greenfly: WinDOS expects a stupid block device	21:56
odin_	javispedro, why block device emulation ? what is that ? a block device is nothing more than a I/O endpoint servicing requests, what you needs is a FAT emulation and just control is via block allocation	21:56
javispedro	konttori: so, yes :)	21:57
t-tan	if you want higher-level access, use CIFS,NFS, sshfs etc	21:57
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&no_d2=1&cid=30984582	21:57
jophish	t-tan, would you be able to put this script on pastebin or something, If is's not too much trouble	21:57
konttori	javispedro: so, in the end it is faster than doing it in code?	21:57
konttori	(with scaler algo)	21:57
t-tan	jophish: so far it + the other files contain personal stuff or very device specific things.	21:58
javispedro	konttori: it was not faster than a 2x scaler in assembly with the window uncomposited	21:58
pupnik	depends on integer 2x scale vs non-int, yes?	21:58
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, Nokia really needs to work on their advertising.	21:58
pupnik	mwah	21:58
Shadikka	Stuff like this is one thing that I like in Maemo 5.	21:59
Shadikka	Application installations failed (had to create /home/opt), then thought that the App Manager should really have a log view or something.	21:59
Shadikka	And then I naturally noticed that it does. ;p	21:59
javispedro	konttori: it's faster in composited mode, and my guess is that it will be faster than non simple ratio scalers (didn't try)	21:59
odin_	javispedro, host via USB reads in FAT, decides to allocate a block, writes out change; linux monitors this change and what it has been associated against, the other area is monitoring of directory structure activity and inode to cluster-number translation	21:59
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: nokia does advertising? where?	22:00
Stskeeps	london tube?	22:00
javispedro	odin_: the scsi protocol does not include "allocate a block" in its command set.	22:00
odin_	javispedro, what has SCSI protocol got to do with it	22:00
javispedro	odin_: a lot	22:00
odin_	javispedro, the emulated FAT is at a fixed address into the logical device	22:00
iPeter-	range: It seems it didnt update it so quickly, now they are there. Thanks anyway.	22:00
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javispedro	odin_: we're talking about USB Mass Storage here don't we?	22:00
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odin_	javispedro, a write to that logic storage range means we're editing the emulated FAT	22:01
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odin_	javispedro, the SCSI protocol is just the device driver command/data transport, nothing to do with FAT emulation	22:01
konttori	javispedro: thanks. Good to know. And yeah, I also assumed proper 2x scaler would be faster, but that's something that really cannot be used on our device, as nothing is exactly 2x.	22:01
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t-tan	odin_: so much effort for what? why not just install Samba over USBnet?	22:02
odin_	javispedro, the transport should be just as well a process using open()/close()/read()/lseek()/write() or SATA or anything	22:02
javispedro	odin_: yes, but you assume the "host allocates a block" like if it was such a simple thing to detect	22:02
odin_	t-tan, to keep the partition on the device a super-set and retain Linux unix permisstions/ACL/xattrs etc... you don't have to share your entire 32Gb eMMC, you might want to only make 8Gb visible (via quotas)	22:03
javispedro	odin_: you've never read a SSD firmware, and never experienced the issues they experience when the fw, used to the windows fastfat driver behaviour suddenly is replaced by the linux's vfat behavior.	22:03
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javispedro	s/suddenly/which is suddenly	22:03
t-tan	javispedro: have you?	22:03
odin_	javispedro, block allocation is simple to detect, if the write is heading for an unallocated block we know its new data, the only issue is out-of-order matters (since you can not control the order the implemntation manipulated the logical device)	22:04
GeneralAntilles	wazd, seriously, Marina's quite tasty.	22:04
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, try it yet?	22:04
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: marina?	22:04
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	22:04
GeneralAntilles	and can somebody PLEASE give me some input here? http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/57839	22:05
javispedro	t-tan: odin_: I tried to do this to support writes to builtin Palm T\|X drive through Mass Storage. And it is a engineering nightmare.	22:05
odin_	javispedro, think of it like a load of open transactions but at some point the the picture will become clear	22:05
GeneralAntilles	(preferably on -community so it'll stimulate some discussion)	22:05
jophish	ok, no worries. thanks anyway t-tan	22:05
timeless_mbp	is it in extras or do i need testing?	22:05
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, should be in -testing.	22:06
t-tan	odin_, javispedro: a read only solution should be easy	22:06
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odin_	javispedro, you can quickly detect writes to: superblock, FAT1, FAT2, directory, existing file, new data block (on a request by request basis)	22:06
javispedro	t-tan: a both sides read-only solution, yes.	22:06
javispedro	t-tan: if you factor in writes are coming from the ext3 side, it's not easy any longer	22:06
javispedro	t-tan: it's a suicide	22:06
javispedro	odin_: again, please grab a dump of the access patterns of the windows fastfat driver. you'd be surprised.	22:07
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timeless_mbp	i don't see it in testing	22:07
timeless_mbp	maybe it's installed? :)	22:07
odin_	write's can't come from ext3, by definition the host expects it to have exclusive access to the filesystem	22:07
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, or possibly -devel, not sure.	22:07
t-tan	javispedro: correct. you'd have to lock all exported files	22:08
konttori	GeneralAntilles: what input do you need?	22:08
TomaszD	US-based people, there's a cool linux-based gadget for cheap only today http://www.woot.com/	22:08
odin_	the existing mechanism must already have a stratagy for merging changes by N900 and changes over USB, but I'm saying you can control kernel block allocation (and availability to never error)	22:09
javispedro	so basically you're going to present two diferent filesystem to both sides?	22:09
jophish	If I wanted to have /var/cache symlinked to /home/var/cache what would be the best way of doing this, so that it works over a reboot	22:09
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t-tan	jophish: should be no problem - it is preserved over reboots	22:10
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odin_	javispedro, well the FAT version is 100% emulated, it doesn't exist as FAT, but the FAT layout and design is used as the communication mechnism	22:10
jophish	thanks t-tan	22:11
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GeneralAntilles	konttori, anything, really.	22:11
GeneralAntilles	konttori, particularly stuff about the specific metrics, though.	22:11
jaska	iirc qemu does fat-emulation	22:11
konttori	that the idea of statistics is nice?	22:11
GeneralAntilles	konttori, mostly about the specifics of said statistics.	22:11
konttori	Well, one interesting metric would be votes killed (so bug X has 20 bugs, it's resolved -> 20 votes killed) per month per component?	22:12
GeneralAntilles	konttori, input on how to get qualitative answers from the data, etc.	22:12
konttori	and that compared to open votes for that component.	22:12
konttori	that gives a nice metric of speed a component is fixing serious issues.	22:13
konttori	or that it's not	22:13
GeneralAntilles	The 3 samples I put in the email were weirdly consistent.	22:13
timeless_mbp	konttori: what to do about votes on wontfix bugs	22:13
wazd	GeneralAntilles: well, thanks again, glad you enjoy it :)	22:14
timeless_mbp	there's a bug asking the browser bookmarks menu to match the browser menu	22:14
timeless_mbp	the ui team doesn't like making things consistent, so the bug's wontfix	22:14
konttori	timeless - interesting choice. I suppose they remain as if they were actual bugs.	22:14
* timeless_mbp would actually not mind having the menu items present		22:14
timeless_mbp	the problem though	22:14
timeless_mbp	is that a bug can potentially have 100 voters	22:14
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, provide commentary about how much we hate UI people and a management? :P	22:14
timeless_mbp	and be wontfix	22:14
konttori	Invalid is a different resolution and then they should be treated as if they never existed	22:14
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RST38h	wazd moo	22:15
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: actually, most of the ui people ceased to exist as of today	22:15
GeneralAntilles	But, really, stupid stuff that ends up on Talk and gets 50 votes but is WONTFIX because it's stupid skews stuff.	22:15
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konttori	timeless_mbp: doesn't that still mean that that issue was something that 100 people wanted fixed and it's still not fixed?	22:15
timeless_mbp	so we now hate ghosts	22:15
konttori	perhaps the wontfix statistics should only affect that single month but not subsequent?	22:16
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timeless_mbp	i could live w/ that	22:16
GeneralAntilles	As far as grading goes,	22:16
GeneralAntilles	I'm mostly interested in getting people from those products involved in Bugzilla.	22:17
timeless_mbp	we just had someone do an internal review	22:17
timeless_mbp	and about the only positive mark was general involvement in the internal bugzilla	22:17
GeneralAntilles	So whether stuff is being looked at and responded to by @Nokia (and @Nokia contractor) persons.	22:18
timeless_mbp	we have a bunch of other tools which got very high NEGATIVE marks	22:18
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jophish	nothing should break if I just use a small FAT loop file on a large ext3 partition as /home/user/Mydocs?	22:18
jophish	going to get rid of the fat partition completly	22:18
timeless_mbp	jophish: very funny	22:18
timeless_mbp	that won't make usb mass storage magically work	22:19
jophish	oh, and fix that too	22:19
timeless_mbp	i'm not sure if camera will work	22:19
timeless_mbp	i didn't spend enough time figuring out what the heck it was doing	22:19
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GeneralAntilles	I'd like to encourage higher "positive" resolution rates, but the number of factors involved in that makes trying to make those numbers useful more difficult.	22:19
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jophish	timeless, I believe that the camera can output to ext3 now	22:20
GeneralAntilles	It'd be easier if people were more careful about actually picking up bugs.	22:20
Damion2	may work if you point /dev/blkthing1 to loop0 but that probably won't last past a reboot	22:20
GeneralAntilles	If somebody says they're working on something, then they need to mark it ASSIGNED. . . .	22:21
Damion2	I think stock boot expects 3rd part tol be fat. dunno what size	22:21
jophish	changing /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh	22:21
jophish	the third partition is swap	22:21
Damion2	ah	22:21
jophish	first is fat by default	22:21
Damion2	k	22:21
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Damion2	anyway I know ruskie had to flash his a few times playing	22:22
* ifreq tryes to crosscompile some games for maemo		22:23
ruskie	a few lol	22:23
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Damion2	you could linear concat raid several 4GB blocks on the fat to make large ext2/3 part	22:23
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ruskie	5 days straight when I got it, probably once every 4-5 hours	22:24
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jophish	ruskie, Thanks for your efforts	22:25
jophish	mind if I explain what I'm going to do?	22:25
t-tan	jophish: I've uploaded an edited version of my restore script http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner (untested)	22:25
Damion2	it's dos style partition despite being completely different architecture?	22:25
jophish	oh thanks t-tan	22:25
Damion2	you might be able to shrink fat and make p4 out of the space after kit	22:25
Damion2	it	22:25
ruskie	Damion2, just how data is stored on the partition	22:25
ruskie	jophish, sure thing	22:25
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Damion2	ruskie: yes, but it's based on old BIOS things like having an active boot flag and pointless 512bytes at the start	22:26
jophish	On the internal flash, one large ext3 partition and the 700mb swap. a bunch of things from /usr symlinked to dirs on the ext3 partition. And a small FAT loop in /home/user	22:27
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jophish	scripts I have to update are, the mass storage ones, and /etc/event.d/rcS-late	22:28
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woglinde	jo	22:30
woglinde	~seen javispedro	22:30
infobot	javispedro <~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20m 29s ago, saying: 'so basically you're going to present two diferent filesystem to both sides?'.	22:30
* asj_ waves good morning to everyone		22:30
woglinde	g	22:30
woglinde	its nearly time to go to bed	22:31
jophish	goodnight	22:31
pupnik	johnsu01: looks like nethack needs a symlink or shellscript in /usr/bin	22:31
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woglinde	he pupnik	22:31
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Damion2	I wonder if the kernel would panic if a r/o fat mount changed underneath it	22:32
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odin_	Damion2, why should it panic ?	22:33
Damion2	if I r/o mount MyDocs after it's exported to my ps3	22:33
Damion2	then videos saved to it could be rsynced to my nas	22:33
johnsu01	pupnik: Yeah, not sure what to do about that -- the issue is /usr/games not being in the default $PATH which I believe is also true on typical gnu/linux systems	22:34
Damion2	odin_: it'll be changing at the block layer beyond what it's expecting	22:34
woglinde	hm debian has it	22:34
cehteh	accessing a block device concurrently by filesystems is a reciepe for desaster	22:34
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satmd	breakage guaranteed	22:34
Damion2	cehteh: the mount would be ro :)	22:34
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cehteh	still	22:35
Damion2	I have an EyeFi which does it	22:35
johnsu01	woglinde: it does?	22:35
cehteh	r/o still means the kernel caches vital datastructures in ram	22:35
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woglinde	johnsu01 /usr/games in path	22:35
Damion2	yes that was my q about likelihood for panics	22:35
cehteh	if these get changed unexpected then it will break	22:35
pupnik	johnsu01: yeah, and how to make that change so that it works for autobuilder? don't ask me	22:35
johnsu01	woglinde: my install doesn't seem to...	22:35
cehteh	Damion2: dont do that	22:35
woglinde	/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games	22:36
johnsu01	woglinde: is that defined somewhere other than /etc/skel?	22:36
Damion2	cehteh: maybe detect activity in the usb exported storage daemon and umount, then remount for rsync when the ps3 settles down	22:36
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johnsu01	wow, it's awesome that mmpc pauses my stereo when the phone rings	22:37
cehteh	Damion2: mounted device will not be exported, usb-storage connected device can not be mounted	22:37
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woglinde	zsh/zshenv: export PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/games"	22:37
johnsu01	ah zsh :)	22:37
cehteh	unless you circumvent that somehow .. but then you really shoot in your own foot	22:37
woglinde	same for bash	22:37
woglinde	hm or not	22:37
cehteh	Damion2: you can use mtools to access a fat block device without mounting it, that should be safe	22:38
johnsu01	woglinde: yeah, I don't think so, I've had this in my .bashrc for a long time	22:38
woglinde	login.defs:ENV_PATH PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games	22:38
Damion2	cehteh: ahh yes mixed with fuse it could seem to be mounted	22:39
Jophish_n900	ruskie, replacing the partition table with this: http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b	22:39
Jophish_n900	not so sure about p2 there though	22:39
Damion2	cehteh: unmounted device can be presented at the client usbstorage	22:39
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cehteh	Damion2: soem fuse-mounting might work too if you explicitly turn off all caching	22:39
pupnik	and there's the 'fun' with our debhelper that doesn't seem to accept alternate destination prefixes. see odin_	22:40
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javispedro	cehteh: on both sides	22:40
Damion2	cehteh: I'd write that part myself	22:40
ShadowJK	at some point using smb/cifs or nfs becomes more sensible..	22:40
cehteh	yes but libfuse caches some things internally iirc you have to turn that off	22:40
pupnik	at no point is nfs sensible for a wlan connection	22:40
woglinde	pupnik?	22:40
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Damion2	cehteh: ps3 mounts the block dev from my phone. I monitor load / data in/out on the block and mount r/o to run a quick rsync before umount	22:41
javispedro	well, from a security point of view, only all_squash nfs is "safe".	22:41
johnsu01	woglinde: Hm, yeah, guess so. So the question is why doesn't maemo do that? :)	22:41
cehteh	Damion2: i'd opt for some usb-storeage server which emulates a virtual FAT over any other filesystem	22:41
timeless_mbp	konttori: remind me to try to lecture people about strings	22:41
cehteh	that would be awesome and there is already some code in qemu for doing that readonly	22:42
javispedro	cehteh: ... that doesn't work in windows	22:42
timeless_mbp	they're mixing strings for Foo–updated <h:mm> and Foo–updated <date+time>	22:42
timeless_mbp	which unfortunately doesn't work	22:42
cehteh	who cares about windows :P	22:42
woglinde	johnsu01 dont ask me	22:42
javispedro	cehteh: if you don't care about windows why are you keeping the FAT partition in the first place	22:42
* ShadowJK suggests rsync over usb then		22:42
woglinde	maybee its not following LSB	22:42
cehteh	dunno i would delete it :)	22:42
Damion2	cehteh: eek not sure that's feasable. the mounting device expects a stock block it can do what it wants with	22:43
cehteh	well would quite some work to do, you have to virtualize a complete fat system	22:43
javispedro	it's feasable when both sides are read only, and even then is hard.	22:43
Damion2	my mount of say ext then colnverted into a fake blobk with fat? v.hard	22:43
timeless_mbp	cehteh: yeah, it's really "not simple"	22:43
konttori	are you talking about region settings?	22:43
konttori	or what?	22:43
timeless_mbp	konttori: no	22:43
timeless_mbp	MfE's sync status	22:43
Damion2	look up the eyefi	22:43
timeless_mbp	in the system menu	22:43
timeless_mbp	cehteh: the system can make an arbitrary series of writes over an arbitrary amount of time	22:44
konttori	oh, well, I suppose we can mess up dates in other places and not just in locales	22:44
konttori	(or the lack of use of locales)	22:44
cehteh	i am actually wondering why the n900 doesnt do usb networking by default and starts a samba for the poor windows users	22:44
timeless_mbp	cehteh: because windows doesn't come w/ usb networking drivers	22:44
timeless_mbp	which means it wouldn't work	22:44
cehteh	that would be simple enough to setup and way more flexible	22:44
timeless_mbp	this stuff has been discussed	22:44
SpeedEvil	it's not only windows	22:44
timeless_mbp	it's also in the #maemo logs	22:44
Damion2	yeah. other that playstation I use ssh and sshfs	22:44
cehteh	timeless: ewww	22:44
timeless_mbp	i know, because i put it there	22:44
SpeedEvil	it's also plugging it into a printer - and having it 'just work' to print photos	22:45
timeless_mbp	now, be a good boy and find the logs so i can write them up	22:45
SpeedEvil	if the printer can take mass storage devices.	22:45
javispedro	Damion2: the eyefi requires a "compatible" camera	22:45
SpeedEvil	or mp3 systems...	22:45
timeless_mbp	but yeah, what SpeedEvil said	22:45
timeless_mbp	it's not just windows	22:45
cehteh	SpeedEvil: it doesnt support PICT bridge anyways .. thats another thing :P	22:45
timeless_mbp	usb mass storage is the universal standard because it's the universal standard	22:45
ShadowJK	when I plug in my N900, in "charging only" mode it pretends to be a usb ethernet thing of some sort	22:45
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cehteh	yeah and FAT sux	22:45
Damion2	javispedro: by compatible camera that just means /DCIM/100CANON/filename.jpg	22:46
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javispedro	Damion2: no. it means they have a _specific_ fat driver they care about	22:46
javispedro	and ignore the rest.	22:46
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Damion2	my linux box saved in to that dir and it worked	22:46
ShadowJK	But you could do like the S60 people have done, put pcsuite "drivers" on a windows readable partition with autostart	22:46
cehteh	hence the rather complicated suggestion to make some virtual fat server ..	22:46
javispedro	Damion2: how do you tell it to upload the fotos?	22:46
cehteh	that would be compatible and flexible .. but quite a lot work to do	22:47
Damion2	you don't it just seems to detect no save activity and run a sync	22:47
ShadowJK	Nokia is even doing that for linux now, apparently. The CS-15 modem presents itself as a cdrom, and contains .deb for Ubuntu and autostart crud for windows drivers :-)	22:47
satmd\|n900	just port samba?	22:47
javispedro	Damion2: that sounds so stupid.	22:47
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satmd\|n900	or cifs	22:47
johnsq	Hi	22:47
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: in charging only mode	22:47
timeless_mbp	you're supposed to be an unconfigured usb device and get 100mA	22:48
javispedro	Damion2: so what If I write half-photo then my computer freezes for a few seconds and it decides to start uploading corrupting photos	22:48
* konttori is using paradigm of no-context-menus in the new media player (and not only to be nice to timeless_mbp)		22:48
Damion2	it sounds easyfor users and seems to work	22:48
javispedro	*corrupted	22:48
timeless_mbp	if you don't pick pcsuite mode, then we're not supposed to ask for more	22:48
timeless_mbp	konttori: hrm	22:48
Damion2	javispedro: dunno, cameras probably don't do that	22:48
timeless_mbp	the few context menus in the maemo5 media player are lame	22:48
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp: my N900 presents itself as usb networking and asks for 500mAh in charging only mode	22:48
timeless_mbp	so i won't cry when you show me they aren't there	22:48
javispedro	Damion2: _compatible_ cameras, I remark.	22:48
woglinde	he javis	22:48
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timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: yeah	22:49
javispedro	Damion2: why do you think they keep a list?	22:49
timeless_mbp	iirc we cheat	22:49
timeless_mbp	but historically we didn't	22:49
timeless_mbp	which meant you'd die way too easily	22:49
javispedro	moo woglinde	22:49
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp: I thought it was a clever solution :-)	22:49
woglinde	javis edward nevielle rockz	22:49
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Damion2	javispedro: I think most will work if they save in the right place	22:49
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: illegal i believe, but yeah, it's a pretty nice hack	22:49
woglinde	he pushed thumbee support into openjdk	22:49
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jophish	I guess that there is no way I can resize the home partition while inside maemo	22:50
javispedro	woglinde: nice	22:50
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javispedro	woglinde: have url?	22:50
ShadowJK	is there actual current limiting to 500mA on N900 side?	22:51
ShadowJK	or does it take what it can get..	22:51
Damion2	javispedro: you write a byte to /EyeFi/XXXX (I forget the XXXX name) and moments later anotther file in that directory shows a list of detected access points. it's all rather funky	22:51
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lcuk	you cannt get certified as a usb host device afaik if you supply more than 500ma	22:51
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lcuk	Shadikka, ^	22:51
lcuk	ShadowJK even	22:51
woglinde	javispedro here bugfixing sruff	22:52
woglinde	javis -> http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea6/rev/ab2479dd2f87	22:52
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javispedro	woglinde: pretty ironic Zero gained architecture specific support :)	22:52
ShadowJK	in practice lots of computers have no overcurrent protection, or then they just have one limiter for all ports	22:52
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: we take 1.2mA from our 'usb charger'	22:52
woglinde	javis I will test it	22:53
cehteh	mA? :)	22:53
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timeless_mbp	1.2A	22:53
timeless_mbp	whatever	22:53
timeless_mbp	what's 1000x between friends?	22:53
woglinde	when I have oe opendjdk support in shape	22:53
cehteh	forever you mean .. what charging would take	22:53
cehteh	hehe	22:53
GeneralAntilles	The new server messages are weirding me out.	22:53
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SpeedEvil	http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/02/01/1555206/Nokia-N900-Linux-Smartphone-Running-OS-X?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher	23:02
ifreq	sigh	23:02
ifreq	"cool"	23:02
iPeter-	Hey how can i change format of date and time on maemo 5?	23:02
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timeless_mbp	sp3000: progress	23:03
timeless_mbp	# Summary: 9 / 53	23:03
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timeless_mbp	so, that just leaves me w/ the annoying strings	23:05
* timeless_mbp tries to decide how to deal w/ 'to'		23:05
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* javispedro is surprised the first think a supposed geek criticizes about the n900 "debianness" is the /etc/sudoers		23:06
javispedro	(on slashdot article)	23:06
Stskeeps	...	23:06
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timeless_mbp	javispedro: you mean that you have to use /etc/sudoers.d/ ?	23:06
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timeless_mbp	(and update-sudoers)	23:06
javispedro	timeless: http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=30985824#30986130	23:07
pupnik	all intelligence flees http	23:07
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timeless_mbp	hrm	23:08
javispedro	"from what I read online". Even more weird. No one in Slashdot is criticizing the "debinannes" of the N900 (in fact the grandposter is saying "it has a sane filesystem layout")	23:08
iPeter-	Is there any own N900 channel where to ask questions bout maemo and how tos	23:09
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, clearly Nokia shills.	23:10
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: that, or no one has it yet.	23:10
pupnik	iPeter-: yes, ##n900 but it hasn't become popular	23:10
Stskeeps	or #maemo-users ?	23:10
iPeter-	Damn	23:10
Stskeeps	nm	23:10
javispedro	though someone hints at the monster behind the facade, quietly: "although N900 had me at 'df -h'".	23:10
woglinde	damn classpath	23:11
pupnik	still getting badsig from maemo.org... :(	23:11
iPeter-	But how to change date style, i have language on english but region setting on Finland, still it shows time like 02/01/10, it should show 01/02/10, where to change it on N900	23:12
SpeedEvil	you can't	23:12
SpeedEvil	at least yet	23:12
jebba	in evince on maemo5 how do you get out of full screen view?	23:12
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SpeedEvil	jebba: I find camerad helps with that	23:13
pupnik	W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG E40DC434616730BD maemo.org	23:13
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SpeedEvil	jebba: also ctrl-enter?	23:13
iPeter-	jebba: Press power button, if you are running example nes emulator and want to close it press power button for options	23:13
javispedro	pupnik: they're signing packages now!! O.o	23:13
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javispedro	jebba: or the builtin ctrl-backspace, but I think you know that already. If this the same diablo source package then there's no other fullscreen hotkey iirc.	23:14
jebba	ya, i can close it, i just want to keep viewing it in evince but not in fullscreen. It's definitely not F11 like in regular evince ;)	23:14
jophish	does the maemo kernel support inline resizing?	23:14
iPeter-	Whats best media player for Maemo5?	23:14
javispedro	jebba: try the diablo F6	23:14
jophish	online*	23:14
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jebba	this is just whatever evince is in maemo-extras*	23:15
asj_	http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1532544&cid=30984582 -- who would have thought you would hear such praise about a Nokia phone ;)	23:15
javispedro	hum.. not same version as in diablo, so dunno.	23:15
jophish	also, would the following partition table be valid, and would swap be mounted correctly?	23:15
Jophish_n900	http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b	23:15
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javispedro	asj_: that's exactly the nokia shill we where discussing just a few minutes ago :)	23:16
javispedro	s/where/were, s/we/I :)	23:16
pupnik	no idea how to fix this - teh googles are not helping	23:17
javispedro	pupnik: if they just started signing packages, the key they used must be lying around somewhere	23:17
Veggen	mmf.	23:17
pupnik	this error has been happening since at least december 14 javispedro	23:18
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javispedro	pupnik: are you completely sure, or was it "a slightly diferent error" talking about missing pgp signature?	23:18
Veggen	mmf. my enter in xterm is buggy..	23:18
Veggen	norwegian layout.	23:19
pupnik	the BADSIG matches http://ibot.rikers.org/%23maemo/20091214.html.gz	23:19
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jebba	ah cool, SpeedEvil ctrl-enter does it on evince. thx! :)	23:20
Damion2	Veggen: known bug	23:20
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Veggen	ah. probably will be fixed then?	23:20
jebba	hmm, but you can't zoom in full screen mode (?).	23:21
Damion2	sorry don't know	23:21
Damion2	presumably	23:22
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Damion2	I've mapped it in vim other apps don't tend to care, such as irssi	23:22
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jophish	hmm, I have a feeling bad things are about to happen. I have used sfdisk to expand the mmcblk0p1 partition to take up all the space up to the swap, made p2 size 0,	23:24
jophish	resisize2fs isn't resizing p1 to fill the partition	23:24
javispedro	jophish: have you read the numerous threads in talk.maemo.org about repartitioning?	23:25
javispedro	like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37869	23:25
jophish	I have been through them a bit	23:25
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Damion2	diskpart needed to sync kernel's cached idea of the partition?	23:26
jophish	hmm?	23:26
Damion2	or is it partprobe	23:27
Damion2	the script/walkthrough I read had a few reboots	23:27
Damion2	which achieves the same without crosscompiling partprobe	23:27
jophish	I have used sfdisk to change the internal card to the following:	23:27
Jophish_n900	http://pastebin.com/m3248f90b	23:28
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jophish	shouldn't resize2fs on /dev/mmcblk0p1 expand it to fill the remaining space in it's partition?	23:28
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Damion2	yeah but unless the kernel outputted a fresh idea of the partition like when you plug an mmc in, I doubt it'll work	23:28
Jaffa	Veggen: You can use Ctrl-M - it's a known bug	23:28
Damion2	dmesg?	23:28
jophish	ah of course	23:28
jophish	and partprobe isn't here	23:29
javispedro	so, reboot.	23:29
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Jaffa	Veggen: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009	23:29
povbot	Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications	23:29
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Damion2	of course it might not come up now	23:29
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jophish	fingers crossed then	23:29
jophish	thanks	23:29
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t-tan	jophish: if you want to shrink the ext3 parition you can do it before mounting it in rcS-late	23:30
jophish	oh, that's a good trick	23:31
jophish	Linux is so brilliant	23:31
javispedro	t-tan: what does happen if I comment that line on rcS-late. does it boot normally, putting the files in / ?	23:31
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t-tan	jophish: you might find some inspiration in my modifications of the scripts in http://www.maemory.com/N900/misc/mmc/	23:31
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t-tan	jophish: but backup first!	23:31
t-tan	javispedro: sorry, which line?	23:32
javispedro	t-tan: mount /home.	23:32
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t-tan	javispedro: IIRC it means REFLASH	23:33
javispedro	but for unknown causes?	23:33
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javispedro	the rootfs fills?	23:33
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pupnik	that's a 'great' one Jaffa >_<	23:34
jophish	t-tan, all is hunky-dory, I now have a nice big ext3 home partition	23:34
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t-tan	javispedro: I think it crashes at "mkdir /home/user" without the -p	23:34
pupnik	and when it gets fixed, we get to switch back SDL programs to use Enter	23:34
javispedro	??? /home exists in rootfs, and /home/user would succeed then.	23:34
jophish	now to create symlinks	23:35
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jophish	your script is very useful by the way t-tan	23:35
t-tan	javispedro: you right	23:35
javispedro	I should try that some day. Just put in /usr/sbin/sshd & sleep 50 there and see what's going on	23:35
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t-tan	javispedro: good luck! :)	23:36
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pupnik	J.S. Bach - Chromatic Fantasies ... +++	23:45
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jophish	pupnik, my favourite Bach piece	23:48
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pupnik	bbiab	23:49
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