IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-01-30

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threshwould be better in 12 hours00:03
wazdIn heaven?)00:04
threshif you all moscow a heaven, yes :P00:04
threshi don't know what i meant by the last phrase00:05
threshprobably 'call'00:05
wazdIm at the country now, so I'll soon be seing jesus I guess)00:06
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: do you remember the URL for that slide with the HW platform intended for M6?00:09
Stskeepsor a picture or something00:09
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, Flickr, maybe? Dunno.00:09
GeneralAntillesCheck the Summit tags on Flickr, probably.00:09
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wazdWill there be any videos from the summit?)00:11
GeneralAntilleswazd, I think they're up.00:11
wazdGeneralAntilles: I saw only music one and t-shirt giveaway00:11
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wazdGeneralAntilles: btw, saw how application downloader looks now - it needs some more work to look perfect) But I hope it works as expected)00:16
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RevAaronShadowJK: ahoy! what were those battery readings again? I've got 3.7V on the battery in my N800. you may not be here, but I thought I'd try. :)00:19
wazdK,  sleeping now, cya all00:20
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meceI'm considering trying to get my comic widget to extras-devel.00:23
meceAll that packaging this and that seems like hard work though.00:24
RevAaronlike getting out of bed- not worth it!00:24
meceaaahaha :D00:24
RevAaronsorry, couldn't help it00:25
meceI guess it's not that hard if you know how to do it.00:25
RevAaronand there are guides enough to smooth it along00:25
meceRevAaron, yep, but I still feel confused. Perhaps I should read through them again.00:26
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RevAaronor, perhaps someone would give you a hand!00:26
RevAaroni'd guess that the bigger issue is knowing it works for sure when installed somewhere, that the deps, libraries, and paths are all packaged properly00:26
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meceRevAaron, yes, well I have my own device to test it on. And a few friends :)00:27
RevAaronyeah, devices other than your own00:27
meceYay! just got dilbert workin!00:27
* RevAaron is crossing his fingers- i actually got the USB loader to come up on my N80000:28
RevAaroni was just in here a day or two ago asking for ideas on how to ressurect this lil guy. previously, i wasn't able to boot it or even get to the USB bootloader00:28
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Matthew-w/ii greyer00:29
Matthew-oops ;D00:29
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odin_jebba, I am wanting a test area, to test out the submissions process of the maemo autobuilder... of course I can build what I have in scratchbox, but I wish to download what the autobuilder created and test it BEFORE it becomes publicly available (in fact I just want to arbitrarily throw something at it and it store it against my user account for manual web download)00:31
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RevAaronwtf, suddenly my n800 works again00:33
odin_are there any issue with maemo5 packages tracking etch packages ?  I am trying to keep the maintenance work down, i.e. where there should not be any problem track official debian releases so fixing and updates become a breeze00:33
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meceRevAaron, :D00:33
jebbaodin_: i'm rebuilding etch for maemo 5 right now.00:34
odin_thats not exactly that useful, you mean you are porting it ?  just building it is not that useful00:35
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RevAaronmece: for real! I've had a problem with it for a year and a half, where it stops being able to boot, even when it seems to have a good charge; just fails and turns off or reboots. haven't been able to reflash ir or anything.00:35
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SpeedEvilhow old is the battery?00:35
jebbawell, its over 10,000 packages. But i figure just having some of them there will help people get up and rolling quickly and not have to build missing deps and such. Plus there's a metric ton of cool debian command line apps in there as well.00:35
RevAaronSpeedEvil: well, now it's a year and a half of so. but the problem started happening 6 months after I got it. I got it early in their release, part of a developer program.00:36
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odin_jebba what would really be more useful, is lenny for scratchbox :)00:41
odin_then at least lenny stuff can be built out-of-the-box00:42
mecehmm.. was there a way to prevent tracker from indexing a directory?00:43
odin_check ~/.trackerd.conf or something00:43
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odin_ok its /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg00:44
jebbaodin_: usually for lenny just debhelper to 5 and debian compat to 5.00:44
jebbaand it seems to build  ;)00:44
meceodin_, thanks00:45
odin_nah missing packages in the BuildDepends00:45
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meceis it just my photos application that doesn't understand gifs?00:47
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odin_mece, what is your photo app called? and why do you say it doesn't understand GIFs ?00:49
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ScribbleJGIFs have a lot of issues, they keep to themselves.   It can really take a lot of warming them up before they will talk.  I suggest trying to really /listen/.00:50
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ShadowJKRevAaron, it doesn't sound too bad..00:51
SpeedEvilpointing to earlier issues!00:51
ShadowJKdoes it boot just on battery?00:51
jebbaodin_: there's lots of missing build depends (in both), because hundreds (thousands) of base libraries haven't been built (or at least aren't in extras-devel yet).00:51
ShadowJKoh you said it works already :)00:52
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odin_jebba, can the community release packages for building on the SDK ?00:52
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odin_jebba, sorry to be clear.... the target is the SDK (no armel for the handset, NOR x86 for the scratchbox devel enviroment), I mean the sdk/tools00:52
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SpeedEviljebba: you're pushing everything in edge into extras-devel?00:53
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infobotSpeedEvil meant: jebba: you're pushing everything in etce into extras-devel?00:54
jebbaSpeedEvil: i haven't pushed anything yet, but i could (etch).  Of the packages which are known to compile for maemo500:54
RevAaronShadowJK: nope, this time it worked- i'm not sure why. i attempted to boot by itself, didn't work, took the batt out, tested at 3.7V, got out a usb cable and just tried it again. this time i got the usb logo in the corner- i wasn't able to get to that last tiem i tried it, a month ago. and not for low battery- it just hung on that initial screen, never got the usb thing and it took a long time before powering off. :D00:54
ShadowJKhm, did you try taking out the battery before?00:54
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RevAaronShadowJK: yes, many times00:55
ShadowJKweird :)00:55
RevAaronShadowJK: when this problem started happening that'd what i'd have to do to get it to boot. see, it was just suddenly turn off. and when i'd boot it again, it wouldn't actually boot up.00:55
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RevAaronShadowJK: at first, i thought it was something based on movement- that snapping closed the kickstand was wiggling something free. but i think that just happened to be the coincidental timing on the first time it happened.00:56
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RevAaronShadowJK: anyway, i'm not crossing my fingers that it'll keep working, but it does something for now. if it was a software thing, at least i was able to get the most recent version on. the flasher downloaded a DIABLO release- should I still be worried about the power supply amperage/voltage?00:56
bennypr0faneHello, is it possible to use IM services on the N900 other than the ones preinstalled? like Yahoo IM, Windows Live, ICQ? If yes, which would be the app that does that?00:57
voltagexhi, on the N900, is there a conf file storing the Internet radio stations for mediaplayer?00:57
ShadowJKWhen/if the battery degrades sufficiently, the stronger chargers become unable to charge00:57
voltagexbennypr0fane: pidgin works00:57
ShadowJKBut not every battery degrades to that point00:57
RevAaronShadowJK: but that's just it- it wasn't a charging thing. it would suddenly shut off, and i could get it back up after trying to reboot and popping the battery out a few times. and then it would work for 2 more hours.00:58
RevAaronShadowJK: same problem when on AC00:58
* RevAaron shrugs00:58
ShadowJKSounds unrelated to power then :)00:58
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wiretappedbennypr0fane: you can use pidgin, or install telepathy-haze to make the built-in client use pidgin's protocol implementations01:00
wiretappedif you want otr, use pidgin (pidgin-otr is in extras-devel)01:00
wiretappedif you don't want otr, i'd recommend sticking with the built-in client and just adding more protocol plugins01:01
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* wiretapped wants otr in the built-in client :(01:01
vinsci2I'm trying to install pc-connectivity on a Debian Sid box, using the sources.list line: "deb intrepid main" as described in the installation guide. Not found. Ideas?01:01
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vinsci2these are the instructions, btw:
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* sp3000 prods bugs.maemo01:09
sp3000whaddayaknow, that helped ;)01:09
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odin_ah damn dh_installexamples does not support the concept of a --prefix01:15
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vinsci2hmm, pc-connectivity not listed as a product on bugs.maemo.org01:22
bennypr0faneI'm afraidf i don't even know what otr is. you mean IM encryption?01:23
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Stskeepsit's a johnx01:24
odin_no wonder people are still installing files into rootfs, as dh_installexamples dh_installman dh_installinfo dh_installdocs none support --prefix concept to move them01:24
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vinsci2bennypr0fane, introduction here
odin_maybe maemo-optify can bodge around that (but better to get debhelper support for --prefix, or just modify the SDK one)01:24
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bennypr0fanewiretapped do the plugins for the built-in IM client have other names or are they just called "plugins for IM"?01:25
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t-tanodin_:  feel free to add --prefix patches to debhelper701:27
pupnikty odin_01:27
bennypr0fanevinsci2 introduction to maemo pc connectivity? is that related to IM?01:27
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wiretappedso, it looks like you need to get haze from extras-testing... i think there is some disclaimer I'm supposed to give you along with this information01:28
wiretappedin a nutshell: extras-testing is a testbed for extras, use at your own risk.01:28
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pupnikalias pupnikconfuser='dh_'01:28
bennypr0fanewiretapped got it, thanks01:28
wiretappedthere are some telepathy-something packages in extras also which do individual protocols, but haze will do lots01:29
vinsci2bennypr0fane, oops - I see your earlier question now. Thought you were replying to mine...01:30
odin_pupnik, what was the thank you for ?  (scratching me head over how I helped you)01:31
bennypr0fanevinsci2: sorry, not a clue....01:31
odin_t-tan, the SDK uses debhelper 5.0.42-0osso1 (so patches for 7 are not that useful to community now)01:31
t-tanodin_:  if you need lenny tools, try SDK+ (but It's not on autobuilder)01:31
t-tanodin_: no, look at by backport called debhelper7 - you can use it within SDK+autobuilder01:32
bennypr0fanewiretapped: thanks for the help, that's awesome!01:32
pupnikt-tan: can it do -prefixing for configure and opt?01:32
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odin_apt-cache showpkg debhelper7 : W: Unable to locate package debhelper701:33
odin_what is with this backporting, thats a serious waste of community time and effort01:33
t-tanodin_:  it's in extras-devel, it's a straight version 7 port - no maemo specifiy extras yet01:34
odin_SDK should be upto lenny level (with etch compatibility)01:34
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pupnikmaie it!01:34
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t-tanodin_: yes, there are lots of design flaws in the N900 and SDK/autobuilder...01:35
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t-tanodin_: but Nokia wants us to buy the N910 with harmattan, so they tried their best not to make the N900 to good :)01:36
odin_maybe that is a project for a few months time.. looking at how to build the SDK and working out how Nokia can release etch/lenny and sarge based versions, lag in the SDK means lag in maintenance and lots of bug fix and effort duplication01:36
vinsci2ah, that touches on my next question, odin_01:37
bennypr0faneguys, i have another question: is it possible to perform a global search on n900? I mean searching for a given string of characters in files, file names, e-mails, text msgs etc. across the whole device, like e.g. google desktop does01:37
t-tanscratchbox 1.x is a dead project - do not waste time with it01:37
vinsci2how to install the SDK on Debian Sid? :-)01:37
odin_we will have to see how the next model looks but I'm all for getting multiple phone formats out there at once, its unlikely an iPhone equivalent would appeal to me (i.e. no keyboard, no usb host)01:38
t-tanodin_: agreed USB host is a must01:38
ptl_does anyone have the solution for sound on Maemo 5 SDK scratchbox and ubuntu Karmic Koala?01:39
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t-tanBTW, there is #maemo-devel for SDK related chats...01:40
odin_yes understood on scratchbox 1.x being dead01:40
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odin_I think 2 USB ports one mini and one micro, (i.e. keep the N900 as-is, charger port and usb2go) with another port for hostmode01:40
vinsci2thanks, t-tan01:41
odin_I did not know that, I shall monitor #maemo-devel too01:41
t-tanodin_:  I'm also porting lots of lenny/lucid packages ATM. I've already ported most of the relevant builddeps01:44
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kynkymicro can handle more insertions, and with usb just get a usb hub, spec can handle upto 128 devices01:45
odin_how do you use your debhelper7 in the SDK, if its inside the extras-devel ?  isn't that for on device and in scratchbox (device emulation) only repo ?01:46
odin_need debhelper7 in fremantle/tools repo01:46
odin_need debhelper7 in fremantle/sdk repo01:46
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odin_yes otherwise anything I create and submit to autobuilder can use/see it01:46
t-tanodin_: I've put some links to the bottom of
pupnikty t-tan01:47
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t-tanodin_: you only need it for building - not on device, so extras-devel is fine01:47
odin_but extras-devel is on device and in emulator repo (its not an SDK repo)01:48
t-tanodin_:  ? you can add it to your sources.list01:48
odin_I'm not trying to build packages just for me here01:49
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odin_what you are proposing is that in my devian/rule I edit the /etc/apt/sources.list file of the SDK autobuilder and have it unstall random stuff ?  so I can use it to build with later on in the rules file01:49
odin_i.e. this is not a solution01:49
t-tanodin_: you add debhelper7 to builddeps, it's build on autobuilder, and the packages can then be promoted to extras01:49
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odin_so there is an SDK version (or debhelper7) ?01:50
t-tanodin_: I've already successfully uploaded packages using debhelper701:50
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odin_i.e. where do I download the autobuilders copy using host-gcc (within the SDK) so I can use it in my SDK01:50
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odin_an x86 copy build with cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486 will not work to build an armel target01:51
t-tanodin_: ? in the SDK you apt-get install debhelper7 and use it. very simple01:51
t-tanodin_: debhelper is perl - not binary01:52
odin_armel target uses SDK with compiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7, x86 target uses SDK with compiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486, SDK target uses SDK with compiler: host-gcc  (these are 3 different compilers and targets and the reason extra-devel is seperate from fremantle/sdk)01:52
odin_apt-cache showpkg debhelper7 : W: Unable to locate package debhelper701:53
bennypr0faneOk, let me rephrase that question: does google desktop work on the n900?01:53
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odin_anyone configuring up extras-devel for their SDK is making a mistake01:53
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t-tanodin_: *confused* what? why?01:54
odin_understood that debhelper7 is a noarch package, but it seems like a trick to use extras-devel inside the SDK, when fremantle/sdk is the repo for that01:54
bennypr0faneit seems to need glibc 2.3.2+ and gtk+ 2.2.0+ does Maemo have that?01:54
odin_because non of the binaries run in the SDK01:54
t-tanodin_: I think you're mixing up several things. fremantle/sdk is the official Nokia SDK repository with the outdated stuff01:55
odin_take an x86 binary from fremantle/sdk (and it will work always inside the SDK, no matter what target you are working with, for example it even works for FREMANTLE_ARMEL target)01:55
t-tanodin_: extras-devel is where all development is happening01:56
odin_take an x86 binary from extra-devel (and it will not work if your target it set to FREMANTLE_ARMEL, but it will work if you setup your target for FREMANTLE_X86)01:56
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t-tanodin_: the arch packages in extras-devel are compiled for both targets. what you mean are the scratchbox tools, which override the sdk tools01:57
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odin_all development for the device (the maemo platform, i.e. stuff that will run in the N900)01:57
odin_there are 3 targets here01:57
t-tanodin_: e.g. /usr/bin/perl is replaced by /scratchbox/...longpath.../bin/perl01:57
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odin_there are 2 for developers and 1 for the SDK itself01:57
* vinsci2 tries downloading the *-connectivity packages from the pool instead (as apt-get on Debian Sid won't find them),
odin_no I'm actually talking about ldd/ld-linux compatibility at runtime, there are 3 targets in total01:58
odin_ldd /usr/bin/perl, ldd ./test-program-armel, ldd ./test-program-x86 (check out the libc paths)01:59
vinsci2all of 7KB/s downloading from not impressed01:59
t-tanodin_: so why is your SDK target relevant for development? if you develop for Maemo you test on x86, and maybe compile armel for ondevice tests02:00
vinsci2er, pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org02:00
odin_but my issue is with the build process02:00
odin_the SDK02:00
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t-tanodin_: I didn't follow the previous discussion - so maybe is missed something.02:01
lopzhi ;-]02:01
pupniki got confused by odin also02:01
odin_as in I fully understand the tools available to me as an application developer to test and finally release an application intended to run on the N900 (maemo platform)02:01
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t-tanodin_: can you give a specific example?02:01
odin_but my entry point to this discussion as over needing to fix the SDK, due to limitations02:01
odin_yes the example that a number of the /usr/bin/dh_* tools do not support --prefix02:02
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t-tanodin_: we cannot fix the scratchbox+standard SDK, we can only override parts it - see my debhelper7 trick02:02
odin_to make that fix the SDK needs a patch (the solution can not be achieve by releasing something into extras-devel)02:02
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pupnikperhaps you have interest in joining sdk community02:03
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t-tanodin_: if want to fix it for all packages automatically w/o modification - no that's not possible02:03
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pupnikthe builddeps we have now are light years ahead of 2007 :)02:04
t-tanodin_: it's another design flaw that scratchbox tools have debhelper - it's should only have gcc/dpkg02:04
odin_lol no... of course not.. but its not possible for anyone until an updated debhelper for the SDK comes out (with a change people can use)02:04
pupnikt-tan: how build packages w/o dh?02:05
odin_pupnik, what is the "sdk community" you mean scratchbox ? or the "maemo sdk community" ?02:05
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t-tanpupnik: the idea is that you would install debhelper within the rootstrap, and it would be not overriden by the tools02:05
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odin_you mean a more spartan and basic scratchbox (with everything else on top configurable)02:06
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t-tanodin_: correct02:06
t-tanodin_: that's what I tried initially. move all conflicting outdated binaries in the devkits away02:07
pupnikah ty t-tan02:07
pupnikodin_: i imagine much can be done to help upcoming release of maemo sdk02:08
t-tanso as a temporary fix - to use the installed debs instead of the devkits you need to make heavy use of SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE02:08
t-tanpupnik: I doubt that Nokia would introduce large changes - that's all reserved for harmattan02:09
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odin_sure but getting an/multiple SDK  enviroments that are effectively etch/lenny and sarge that just all work02:09
t-tanthey are extremely conservative - they even sticked to 2006 build tools...02:09
odin_would allow maintainers to do less work02:09
pupnikk ty for the info02:10
t-tanodin_: they could simply officially support the SDK+ (which already has lenny)02:10
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voltagexIf I wanted an unsupported phone, I would have bought an OpenMoko...02:11
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javispedrodamn tmo02:13
odin_the extras-devel auto-builder is only using the support SDK so SDK+ is of no benifit to anyone but an application developer ?02:13
t-tanodin_: correct. AFAIK Mer has a much more sophisticated autobuilder02:14
odin_well it doesn't need to be sophisticated, the battle being fought is over wanting recent versions of software to be built but because its based on etch is doesn't just work out-the-box02:15
odin_you have to port them (backport them!) what a waste of community time02:15
odin_so the question is, what could be done to stop that scenario happening02:15
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t-tanodin_: what specific build dependencies are you missing?02:17
odin_answer I can come up with is, simply have 3 versions of SDK that people want to use, etch, lenny and sarge (what I mean by this is that built in tools, base debian system as based off those distributions) so when I run "dpkg -l foobar" I get a newer version I can build with02:17
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odin_but the Nokia N900 libraries remain the same across all versions (the compile/link time stuff)02:17
odin_ok let me see...02:17
odin_texlive-latex-base (take that one)02:18
t-tanodin_: my TeXlive2009 port is in extras-devel02:18
odin_built with host-gcc ? i.e. for SDK ?02:19
cehtehyes i am TeX user .. but i wonder for what one needs that on the n90002:19
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cehtehanyone ported a printing system yet?02:19
odin_stop throwing any FREMANTLE_X86 or FREMANTLE_ARMEL target stuff at me, as if it is SDK stuff, it is not02:19
t-tanyes, can be promoted to extras as soon as some problems are resolved02:19
odin_that is the point... I don't need it on the N900, I just need it inside the SDK02:19
odin_I shall never install it on N90002:19
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javispedroso you want a latex devkit.02:20
javispedrowhy? is any latex stuff that much CPU consuming?02:21
odin_I'm not a latex man, so I don't know what I need, I just want a "Build Dependancy" resolved correctly, not bodged around02:21
javispedroa Build-Dependency on latex?02:21
t-tancehteh: the are many applications: matplotlib text formatting, revising papers on the device ...02:21
t-tanodin_:  you can install it on both the N900 (its optified) and the SDK02:21
odin_all I can do is all out the missing build dependencies stopping lenny applications from being built on the SDK out-the-box02:21
odin_s/is all out/is call out/02:21
infobotodin_ meant: all I can do is call out the missing build dependencies stopping lenny applications from being built on the SDK out-the-box02:22
javispedrowith that logic in mind, why not put gtk1.2 too.02:22
javispedroit's also stopping all lenny packages from building in sbox.02:22
t-tanthe build dep on latex is often only for the docs, which can be omitted02:22
odin_yes this is the same problem, just a different build dependency02:22
javispedroSO what one usually does is02:23
t-tanjavispedro: latex works perfectly on embedded devices02:23
javispedroeither remove the dependency (which is what I suggest here)02:23
javispedroor package the dependency (which has been done already)02:23
javispedroor (in case it is a CPU consuming build dependency) create a new sbox devkit (which is clearly not the case here)02:23
odin_its been packaged for the device, great.. but I want it for the SDK02:23
t-tanodin_: there is NO conflict - everything for the device can be installed on the SDK as well02:24
javispedro(the only reason I could think for that weird "desire":) the SDK qemu doesn't run latex?02:24
odin_I want it linked against /scratchbox/host_shared/*02:24
t-tanodin_: why? if it's only a build dependency?02:24
javispedroodin_: that is a very stupid thing to do unless you plan a devkit. and I don't recommend a devkit for this.02:25
odin_if its a build time dependency its the SDK version that should be used02:25
AOKI need some help02:25
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odin_otherwise I have to install 2 versions every time and it uses the DEVICES copy of libraries to run02:25
t-tanodin_: I don't understand why you insist on that?02:25
javispedroodin_: that's the proper way.02:25
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odin_the device's runtime libs have nothing to do with the build time libs02:26
odin_the device has a different lifecycle to the SDK02:26
odin_the SDK can continue forever to use newer stuff, while the runtime libs for N900 stay based around what Nokia release when they release it02:27
t-tanif you want max control you should as much as possible from device02:27
AOKSoo ON my Nokia N900 I used the DEVICE LOCK feature. And put a code02:27
javispedroodin_: that's not true. the SDK so far has received an update with each new device pr.02:27
AOKWhich I was asked for in order to enable the feature.... It turned out that I have mistyped the code and don't know it at all02:28
javispedro(and much like the older SDKs) will stop receiving updates with the last OS upgrade.02:28
AOKhow can I RESET that02:28
odin_javispedro, sure.. and there is nothing wrong with that, but there is no reason the SDK can not be based on lenny/sarge/beleeding-edge stuff, but still work perfectly to link again current N900 runtime libs02:28
javispedroodin_: IN FACT the SDK uses sarge packaging tools but more recent "libs".02:28
javispedroand those libs match the device's.02:28
vinsci2aok, you mistyped the code the same way twice when setting it?02:29
AOKwhen trying to enable it02:29
AOKbut otherwise don't know... it seems02:29
odin_well observe /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/ and /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc/lib/ versions02:29
AOKI am very absent minded vinsci202:29
t-tanodin_: how would make sure that stuff build with newer libs also works on the device?02:29
odin_there is no reason why SDK should not be using libc-2.11.1.so02:29
javispedroodin_: there's no reason why SDK "tools"/"devkits" to be using any libc version, too.02:30
vinsci2AOK, I'd guess that one of the digits wasn't enterered. Perhaps try leaving each one out, i turn?02:30
javispedroin fact my vdso patches patch that libc.02:30
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AOKvinsci2:  trust me... I tried a lot of combinations02:30
odin_what I am explaining, does not affect the object code or linkage created for either FREMANTLE_ARMEL or FREMANTLE_X86 (your question indicates you're not understanding the 3 targets that exist)02:31
javispedroodin_: that's why they're called TOOLS.02:31
odin_the 3 targets are /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/ /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc/lib/ and /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486/i486-pc-linux-gnu/libc/lib/libc-2.5.so02:31
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vinsci2aok, google comes up with this:
odin_I am looking at it like this, in order to reduce wasted community time on this "backporting" concept, you simply needs scratchbox tooling to be as per the official i686 version of debian lenny/sarge (i.e. for host-gcc)02:33
t-tanodin_: yes, I understand. but I don't understand why you even want to touch that dead beast02:33
javispedroodin_: true.02:33
javispedro(though that's a _hard_ thing)02:33
odin_maybe thats what I don't understand, the reasons why it is hard!02:33
javispedroodin_: you have to understand that "tools"/"devkits" are THE EXCEPTION, not the rule.02:33
t-tanodin_: yes, we all agree. but that's much more work than backport a few packages02:33
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javispedroodin_: ideally every package would be native, but, for performance/qemu breackage/black magic reasons, there are devkits .02:34
odin_I'm thinking that doing a download and grep of all *.dsc files and looking for packages in Build-Depends and building them natively ?02:35
javispedroso, like in this case where you have a perfectly functional native latex package, use it.02:35
javispedroodin_: if you want hildon with a more recent base system, have a look at mer.02:35
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t-tanodin_: yes, or first try replacing them with the existing version and check whether it works02:36
odin_native is host-gcc, I don't look at FREMANTLE_X86 i native (sure its CPU native, but it uses potentially bastardized Nokia libc)02:36
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odin_s/X86 i native/X86 as native/02:36
infobotodin_ meant: native is host-gcc, I don't look at FREMANTLE_X86 as native (sure its CPU native, but it uses potentially bastardized Nokia libc)02:36
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javispedroby "native" I mean x86 on _X86, armel on _ARMEL02:36
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odin_only host-gcc qualified a native here02:36
javispedro"native to the target", if you wish.02:37
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odin_as N900 evolved host runtime libs will become bastardized away from debian's tree (my thinking keeps this disconnection and independant requirements/lifecycles apart)02:38
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vinsci2AOK, any luck?02:38
javispedron900 doesn't evolve.02:38
javispedroand fremantle won't either.02:39
odin_but I'm sure Nokia's bank balance will !02:39
t-tanodin_: our problem is that libc and mostly gtk/hildon are severly out of sync. Qt (the future) is not02:39
javispedroif there's a breaking libc change any day, be assured the resulting thing won't be named fremantle.02:39
AOKvinsci2: Will NOT work on any of BB5 generation (all newest phones), like:02:40
AOK3250, 5300, 5310, 5400, 5500, 6125, 6131, 6233, 6234, 6280, 6282, 6630, 6680, 6681, 6682, 7370, 7373, 7390, all E-series, all N-series.02:40
AOKIncluding my N900 already tried02:40
AOKit ;-)02:40
AOKbut thanks anyways02:40
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AOKI thought of some file on LINUX02:40
vinsci2aok, got any user data on it you care for?02:40
odin_I look at our problem in that the SDK needs to be as uptodate and independatly updatable as possible, do that and all the maintenance headache between taking official debian stuff and making it work will disappear02:40
vinsci2AOK, the FAQ on that site lists a code to enter which apparently resets the phone to factory defaults (and erases your user data)02:41
AOKwell I don't want that02:41
vinsci2AOK, I have no idea if that works on the N900, but I tried a few of the others and they worked02:41
ShadowJKlike that would work..02:41
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javispedroodin_: do you know you can make a debian chroot and just run your stuff there and even build it on the device?02:42
AOKCool vinsci2 as I said will have it in mind for other NOKIAs since I am a fan, but for this particular one02:42
AOKI believe that the solution is to be found in TERMINAL mode ;-)02:42
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AOKStill anyone else?02:42
AOKvinsci2: any other ideas?02:42
t-tancehteh: CUPS could be ported. for now you can use the one from easydeb02:43
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pupnikmaemo is not debian for a good reason.  it's running on tiny handheld devices02:43
cehtehi dont really need it :)02:43
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odin_javispedro, if a binutils/gcc toolchain exists for armel (as I'm sure it will be around somewhere) but the issue/problem here is over mass porting of lenny/sarge packages (which is best done on something with space/hosepower/etc... i.e. not the device)02:43
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javispedropupnik++ (in fact I was writing that and you made me erase it =) )02:44
odin_javispedro, what is the chroot method ?  (I understand what chroot is, just what do you mean by, "you can even....")02:44
SpeedEviladd a binary distrobution of some sort to SD02:44
SpeedEvilrun from there02:44
hellulooking to write a camera app to enable the led flash while recording02:44
javispedroodin_: debootstrap --foreing02:44
helluwhere to start02:44
javispedromind the typo.02:44
SpeedEvilchroot /media/card/ bin/bash02:45
t-tanodin_: I'm currently working on a native gcc4.4 toolchain - because I need gfortran02:45
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pupniki agree with odin_ that it is frustrating to build things sometimes02:45
pupnikbut i know in my case it is mostly due to pebcak02:45
javispedroand because debian doesn't test packages for clean cross-building02:46
vinsci2t-tan, may I ask what you need gfortran for? (I'm using it for a project myself ATM, after having successfully avoided fortran for decades... ;-)02:46
odin_t-tan, I have built binutils/gcc for other embeded targets before for use, how far have you got with a native toolchain ?  and you are aware that you can't do much about ABI versions (if they changed/improved something)02:47
t-tanvinsci2: builddep for scipy, r-base and other scientific stuff02:47
vinsci2ah, more power to you02:47
zerojayLooks like all the IM account packages just got updated to v0.802:47
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javispedrot-tan: native as in "native to the target", or a devkit?02:48
t-tanvinsci2: for now I use fort77, but it doesnt support F90/9502:48
javispedros/devkit/sbox toolchain02:48
t-tanjavispedro:  native to target02:48
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javispedrothat should be doable02:48
t-tanjavispedro: you could even install it on the device, but I need is a builddep02:49
javispedro... if qemu cooperates, of course.02:49
vinsci2t-tan, about to help these guys out a bit: It's a radio wave propagation prediction tool, originally developed for Voice of America02:49
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t-tanjavispedro: yes, that the the big question...02:49
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javispedrot-tan: I'd suggest building it for armv402:49
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vinsci2t-tan, would be fun to run that natively on the phone, too02:50
javispedrot-tan: the default fremantle toolchain has -march=cortex-a8 and tbh I rather doubt qemu's ability to handle it gracefully, though who knows.02:50
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t-tanjavispedro: we'll see. I'm first need to get the testsuites working and then we can see how far I can go02:51
vinsci2I think qemu has had arm support for years02:52
t-tanvinsci2: yes, might be useful for JIT02:52
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javispedrovinsci2: yes it's had support for years, but bugs are not uncommon.02:52
javispedrosee the cmake story.02:53
javispedro(or the reason the GUI doesn't boot in _ARMEL, AFAIU)02:53
t-tanvinsci2: so voacop needs F90+?02:53
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t-tanjavispedro: there's a more uptodate version for sb2. maybe that could be replaced on autobuilder?02:54
javispedrot-tan: there's a thread on devel about updating autobuilder, though I'm sure you've read it :)02:54
javispedro(at least, about updating some of the devkits...)02:54
t-tanjavispedro: yes, it should have added: "sometime in the future" :)02:55
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javispedroI personally want to ditch the sarge devkit and get support for 3.0-quilt source packages02:56
vinsci2t-tan, well, the linux version is compiled using gfortran on Debian. All I know so far.02:56
javispedro"sometime in the future" I will try to enter that devkit hell..02:56
t-tanvinsci2: IIRC there was the idea to integrate native (armel) autobuilder boxes02:57
vinsci2t-tan, building a cross-compiler tool-chain from gcc isn't too complicated though. You don't have to make it a native compiler.02:57
vinsci2t-tan, I used to do things like that back in the Amiga days02:57
t-tanvinsci2: if I want to upload packages to extras, there's no alternative...02:57
odin_what is the reason that scratchbox exists again ?  (sure this is the way Nokia do thinks... but remind/recap us on what problems is solves/addresses for packaging/shipping/autobuilders.... I'm happy with my understanding of how easy a developer can work with the platform to do stuff)02:58
vinsci2t-tan, ah. I only received my N900 last week and never looked at maemo before, so I have a lot of catching up to do02:58
vinsci2t-tan, I'm pretty experienced with Debian though and have built packages for them so it shouldn't be too hard02:59
t-tanvinsci2: if you want to port voacap, maybe try fort77 first. it already works for some fortran packages02:59
pupniki have a long list of things for you vinsci2  :)02:59
odin_I'm thinking that you take a base install of etch/lenny or sarge and install the cross-compilers and away you go ?02:59
vinsci2pupnik, list of things to do? :)03:00
javispedroodin_: making for the fact that most debian packages just don't build with a cross-compiler.03:00
pupnik has some - kobo deluxe would be nice.  exult also03:00
vinsci2first on my own list is to get anki running. It appears to be missing dependencies in the .deb03:00
pupnikhehe ook03:00
vinsci2pupnik, I'd add MAME to that list.03:01
odin_all things using autoconf SHOULD do ?  infact I have done so on the N900 SDK03:01
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javispedroodin_: not even all things using autoconf do, and then there's the rest of build systems.03:02
t-tanjavispedro: you mean you want an uptodate quilt? or does it also require more recent dpkg?03:02
javispedrot-tan: it requires lenny's dpkg version.03:02
vinsci2pupnik, Atari released the source code to several of the classic arcade games last year, things like Asteroids and Centipede among many others.03:02
vinsci2pupnik, and they all run on MAME03:02
pupnikWhaaa!  awesome03:02
pupniksomeone else maintains sdlmame03:02
javispedrothere's both sdlmame and xmame03:03
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t-tanjavispedro: only as builddep, correct?03:03
vinsci2mame for the N900?03:03
javispedrot-tan: afaik, yes.03:03
vinsci2emulating the 6502 isn't hard...03:03
t-tanjavispedro: should be possible as a backport with a different package name, the same for autoconf03:04
javispedrot-tan: no, it requires a few changes to autobuilder03:04
t-tanjavispedro: for unpacking the source?03:04
javispedrosince autobuilder will extract sources using older dpkg version,03:04
pupnikvinsci2: any pointers for me to where those can be found?\03:04
javispedroand also for allowing one to upload it :)03:04
vinsci2pupnik, hold on03:04
t-tanjavispedro: what's the advantage of the new source package format?03:05
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javispedrot-tan: ditches .diff.gz and many potential errors that come from it (for example inadvertently modifying a file)03:05
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javispedrot-tan: every changed file from the tarball belongs to a "named" patch.03:05
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javispedro(or more than one, of course)03:05
t-tanjavispedro: hopefully also removes the limitation text-only patches in diff.gz03:06
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t-tanjavispedro: but that already works with std quilt?03:06
javispedrot-tan: it removes that limitation, since the debian folder comes in a .tar.gz now03:06
t-tanjavispedro: e.g. if you want to include a binary icon in the diff03:07
t-tanjavispedro: I see. would be really nice to have that on autobuilder03:07
javispedroyou can see documentation for the format on dpkg-source(1) on any recent debian distro03:08
pupniki make a generic stub for autobuilder and put exe in /share :)03:08
pupnikjk jk03:08
vinsci2pupnik, here:
t-tanjavispedro: how difficult would it be to backport from a new tgz to a diff.gz format?03:09
javispedrot-tan: consider a debian.tar.gz containing binary files: I guess, hard.03:09
javispedrowell, your autoconverter could uuencode them all :)03:10
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t-tanjavispedro: so far that's pretty uncommon and could be worked around03:10
javispedromost of my packages have some kind of binary file there (icons..)03:11
pupnikthis could be gold vinsci2 ... will look into legality03:11
javispedrobut yes, can be worked around.03:11
vinsci2pupnik, afaik they are released by Atari themselves03:12
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javispedropupnik: I have "wla" packaged for debian, in case you're interested. (wla is a suite of assemblers/linkers for 6502 and derivates which I used to build some public domain snes roms)03:12
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zerojayFacebook Chat is now working in Maemo 5. :)03:13
pupnikbeen playing with my own robotron remake03:14
vinsci2pupnik, hmm, or maybe not. This is were I read about it originally, the site has added a "PS 2" explaining that it was atarimuseum releasing the code
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pupniki'll have to see how faithful the 7800 remakes are03:15
t-tanI need some sleep. good night!03:16
pupniknight t-tan03:16
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greenflyzerojay: what app for facebook chat?03:18
vinsci2pupnik, so here I got the link 1st...
zerojaygreenfly: Just add it as another IM account in the default internal IM client... Conversations.03:20
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greenflyawesome. thanks03:20
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sp3000oh, nice, countdown timer has more or less the ui I was looking for in such a thing03:25
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sp3000of course it's "Countdown Tim" in the launcher which is a bit suboptimal03:26
zerojayOne less byte to write to memory... sounds optimal to me. ;)03:26
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voltagexCan I load the map data for ovi maps manually? Map Loader refuses to recognise the N90003:29
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javispedrolaunch ovi maps on the n900 first,  download some online, then connect it via usb and drive mode03:32
javispedroerr.. mass storage mode.03:33
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javispedrothat version of map loader recognizes n900 as mass storage here.03:33
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anprheya guys, how r u ?03:56
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ml-mobile:o kimitake is in here04:06
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anpri have one bloody silly question04:13
anpris anyone alive?04:13
anproh ;/04:14
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anprno to which question ?04:20
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ElMarioN900Somebody had tried to install Maemo 5 in a mobile with Windows CE?04:44
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p0fkhola a todos04:58
p0fkalguien habla español04:58
pupniknada.  anglais por favore05:01
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ElMarioN900Yo, yo hablo español05:12
spectre-n900 keeps crash rebooting05:16
jebbayo tambien05:16
spectre-only thing i've done prior to this repeat issue is install firefox rc3?05:16
spectre-wish n900 kept a syslog05:16
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spectre-anyone else have this issue?05:17
ml-mobilespectre-:  try catting out /proc/bootreason05:18
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crashanddieElMarioN900: parla catala?05:18
pupnikspectre you have new pr1.1 ?05:19
crashanddieo castillano?05:19
crashanddieElMarioN900: este canal es en Ingles solamente05:20
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I should've asked for monk05:20
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: rather than contributor05:20
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crashanddieOh look at that, Youtube being funky: Current language: Australia05:25
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spectre-i've got the latest ota update05:33
spectre-if that's what you mean05:33
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spectre-./proc/bootreason says05:33
spectre-32wd to05:34
pupnik  the pest advertises his annoying of freenode / firefox and freenode slow to respond05:34
spectre-is that a code or just garbage?05:34
ml-mobiletry grabbing the full firmware image and reflash, and erase the eMMC05:34
ml-mobileit's a code05:34
ElMarioN900what if i want to install maemo in other kind of phone?05:34
spectre-whats eMMC?05:35
ml-mobilethe new update resolved most of those05:35
ml-mobilethe 32GB of storage05:35
spectre-ah gotccha05:35
spectre-backup/restoring my home will be fine, though, right?05:35
ml-mobilebut sometimes the OTA method doesn't immediately resolve it05:35
spectre-got a link to where i can grab the firmware?05:36
spectre-appreciate the help05:36
* ml-mobile had lots of 32wd_to reboots before the update05:36
spectre-no more now?05:36
pupniki haven't seen any since update either05:36
ml-mobilebut right now I am in my car in the parking lot at work and want to head out05:37
spectre-ok then, so where do i get the firmware?05:37
spectre-does nokia have a dev site?05:37
pupnika few seconds of google should help that05:37
spectre-aight, i'll google it05:37
ml-mobileand while the N900's keyboard is awesome, I can't quite type fast enough to keep up05:37
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ml-mobilesomething like
spectre-well, thanks05:38
spectre-i'll give it a shot05:38
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pupniki forgot exact url05:38
ml-mobilegood luck05:38
javispedroelmarion900: basically, you can't. best alternative is Mer.05:39
spectre-someone should make a cooliris type app/browser plugin for thie n90005:41
javispedroand btw, I didn't know Nokla was shipping Windows CE N900 clones now...05:41
ElMarioN900I have one05:41
ElMarioN900and I do not like Windows05:42
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ElMarioN900BUT!, Nokia is not shipping Windows CE, chinese phones (clones) have that OS05:45
javispedrowho are known around here as " nokla " (l instead of i )05:46
javispedrothough last time those were using their own homegrown os05:46
microlithjavispedro: nothing quite like a mystery OS, not compatible with anything05:48
ElMarioN900mmm, i have a phone and it says "Nokia" very clear ... and it is not Nokia05:48
microlithshanzai phones are not known for being subtle when jacking other companies trademarks05:49
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javispedrotbh it is rather amusing. i've seen ebay ads not unlike "100% original Nokia _logo_".05:52
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javispedroand finally the n900 xchat port is usable. rst did a great job.05:54
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ScribbleJI think it's great.06:12
ScribbleJI've been using it all week.06:12
ScribbleJBest IRC client on a phone evar.06:13
microlithit is06:13
ScribbleJI do wish there were a setting to make it defualt to scrilling when I drag in the window, though.06:13
ScribbleJInstead of selecting as it does.06:13
ScribbleJscrolling is used way more often.06:13
microlithor both, as it were06:13
pupnikmust try it then.  hard to fight the power of irssi tho06:13
* microlith finds himself selectscrolling occasionally06:14
pupnikfn+uparrow pages up here06:14
ScribbleJIf you addicted to irssi because you use it with screen06:14
ScribbleJThen you are doin' it wrong, get a bouncer like znc or dircproxy.06:14
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ScribbleJWorks with anything, freedom to choose, not bound to the command line, can change clients on the fly and miss nothing, or and it's a tool purpose-built for the job.06:16
ScribbleJThat's jus toff the top of my head, I'm sure there are other good reasons.06:16
pupnikok thanks06:16
ScribbleJI used to use dircproxy but just recently switched to znc, which has a lot more features and nicer authentication.06:17
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pupniki will one up that and claim vnc is better cause you get gfx and any prog06:17
ScribbleJWell, that's  a whole different thing.06:18
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pupnikone would hope this firefox irc idiocy could be solved soon06:22
pupnikor i will make it a point to take out a loltard myself06:23
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crashanddiefuck me06:39
luke-jrpupnik: it's Firefox; what do you expect?06:39
crashanddiejust had to pay off 6000 quid worth of credit card...06:39
luke-jrcrashanddie: no06:39
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derfSo how the gekk is one supposed to actually install PR1.1?06:41
derfBecause it sure doesn't work in appman, nor does apt-get dist-upgrade work.06:41
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crashanddiederf: the reasons why PR1.1 would fail over the air are pretty unknown, but I'm guessing specific software dependencies make it impossible06:44
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crashanddiederf: reflash and you're good to go06:45
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derfcrashanddie: Fuck no.06:47
derfIf you'll excuse my French.06:47
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derfThe errors I get from apt are:
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crashanddiederf: non, je ne te pardonne pas06:57
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pupnik_dist upgrading to help fix package problems?07:12
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pupnik_that would be more useful in a few hours when europe is at work07:14
derfEurope works on Saturdays?07:14
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pupnik_they dont work at wee morning hours07:24
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derfI thought it was the land of the 35-hour work week.07:25
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ProteousI thought it was 2907:26
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Proteouswith 2 months of vaction time07:27
Proteousmaybe that was only france...07:27
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Klowneranyone know if there's a way to snap widget positions?08:04
KlownerPR1.1 changelog mentions it08:05
DocScrutinizerKlowner: tweakr app. "grid snap" or somesuch08:05
Klownerah thank you08:05
DocScrutinizernever tested it08:05
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RST38hOMG what are we all gonna do??? "Confirmed: iPhone OS 3.2 has support for video calling, file downloads, and SMS"08:51
ml-mobileOMG I dunno, not care?08:53
RST38hIt may even do pseudo-multitasking! Can you believe it?08:55
jXsms? uhh, iphones already do that08:55
jXand mms too08:55
jXbut video calling, they have no front facing camera08:56
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pupnik_new xchat has lots of fans RST38h09:04
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cehtehone point where iphone is ahead of n900: it is not out of stock09:14
RST38hHehe, Obama cancels Moon/Mars NASA programs09:14
RST38hcehteh: you forgot "shiny".09:15
cehtehwell the chrome fringe around the flash on the n900 is also shiny09:15
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* cehteh just placed another order .. lets see if its deliverable09:16
cehtehbasically everywhere sold out in germany except for the expensive shops09:16
cehteheven the ones which had one09:16
LuciusMare"ps aux|grep browser|awk '{ print $1 }'|xargs kill" is not a correct way how to end all browser instances09:16
cehtehnot to mention the many shops which never seen them yet09:17
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cehteh   how about maemo/mer on that09:19
cehtehwell no touchscreen09:19
cehtehhey we want a mouse optimized maemo! ;P09:20
RST38hit sucks.09:20
RST38hthe "laptop" I mean09:20
cehtehbut for $100 ..09:21
crashanddieI don't get the whole cheap computer stuff09:22
crashanddieI'd rather pay 10 times that price and have a valid laptop that can churn through numbers with decent speed09:22
cehtehyes i did that too ..09:23
crashanddiebut then again, I'm ranting a lot lately, so I'll just shut the fuck up09:23
RST38hcehteh: It will be $100 lost09:23
cehtehbut having some ultra-cheap netbook which wont hurt you when it gets stolen or destroyed for unfriendly terrain can be an option09:23
RST38hit is no netbook, just an ultra cheap n800 knockoff that looks like a laptop09:24
crashanddiecehteh: it's not the hardware that bothers me, but the data it contains09:24
cehtehyeah it needs connectivity ..09:24
cehtehyou dont want to have valuable data on a volatile device09:25
Myrttifive minutes...09:25
ScribbleJHow do you mean "Volatile?"09:25
ScribbleJI carry valuable data on my laptop all day long and use an encrypted fs to help minimize the risks.09:25
cehtehme too09:26
RST38hMyrtti: ...and...?09:26
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crashanddie"five minutes... and ... exciting!" Myrtti, stop smoking crack09:27
cehtehand i carry my more expensive laptop almost always with me09:27
ScribbleJWell, three minutes left.09:27
ScribbleJHope ya'll are ready for /exciting/.09:27
crashanddieready for what?09:27
cehtehbut i dont want to go backpacking though africa with it09:27
crashanddieScribbleJ: go the hardware encryption route09:27
ScribbleJcrashanddie, ?09:28
crashanddieScribbleJ: specific hard drives support hardware encryption09:28
crashanddieyou don't get the performance hit of software encryption09:28
cehtehcrashanddie: yeah ... do you trust that? many are defeated :P09:28
ScribbleJOh, I'm sure that's awesome, but my laptop is an old 32-bit single-core 512mb RAM POS and it does just fine with software encryption.09:28
crashanddiecehteh: no they not, shut the fuck up you noob09:28
cehtehand software encryption isnt really a big problem09:28
crashanddieScribbleJ: usually there's a 30% performance hit on most laptops09:29
ScribbleJWhere'd you get that number?09:29
cehteh30% for sustained I/O09:29
crashanddieI'm a security expert, consultant for banks and governments09:29
cehtehbut a laptop doesnt do i/o continously09:29
ScribbleJWhat, like a PCI-DSS auditor?09:30
ScribbleJAnecdotally, software encryption causes me no problems.09:30
cehtehi agree09:30
crashanddieno, professional services consultant, I help organisations implement security solutions, mainly based around smartcards and the like09:30
cehtehits barely noticeable09:30
cehtehgiven that this laptop has a ultra slow 1.8" hdd anyways :P09:30
ScribbleJAh... well, I'm on the PCI-DSS council, and also do security in the banking industry.09:31
cehtehwell looking forward for a fast ssd someday ..09:31
crashanddieI've seen an intel prototype SSD drive with hardware encryption... can't remember the numbers but pretty damn fast09:31
ScribbleJHave any of you tried the ZAGG screen protector kit on your N900?09:31
cehtehcrashanddie: i believe the 30% for a server .. but for a laptop where the disk is mostly idle anyways its really not the case09:32
crashanddieScribbleJ: my company sells authentication servers and credential management solutions09:32
ScribbleJcrashanddie, that kind of hardware is really fun stuff but it's way overkill for the kind of work I do.09:32
crashanddiecehteh: the disk is mostly idle during startup?09:32
cehtehi dont startup that often09:32
ScribbleJcrashanddie, haaa... I wonder if you're one of the companies that keeps sending me demo equipment.09:32
cehtehi speak about performance while working not corner cases09:33
crashanddieScribbleJ: doubt it09:33
crashanddiecehteh: again, depends on the use-cases09:33
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ScribbleJI've been menaing to try encrypted fs on the N900.09:33
crashanddiecehteh: I'm recommending it if you have a use for it, I could definitely see a difference09:33
ScribbleJIt'll be interesting to see what the performance hit looks like there.09:33
ScribbleJIT's probably not practical.09:34
cehtehhaving a distcc here in the back make -j10 and distribute over 10Ghz in the back .. thats the case where my hdd really struggles to deliver data09:34
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ScribbleJOn my notebook, though?  Whatever performance it robs me of I don't miss.09:34
cehtehScribbleJ: yes slow cpu and not much ram for cache will hit you there09:34
crashanddieScribbleJ: I'm currently working on providing a hardware module to the N900 which would allow to offload the processing from the CPU with regards to encryption/decryption09:34
ScribbleJSounds like hardware encryption is your thing.09:35
crashanddiealso, secure credential storage in a hardware module09:35
crashanddiewell, hardware will always be more secure than software09:35
crashanddieand faster09:35
crashanddieit has obvious benefits09:35
ScribbleJI'm not sure how you would support that assertion.09:36
ScribbleJI mean, that it will always be more secure.09:36
crashanddiegenerally speaking I geuss09:36
ScribbleJYou guys think there is any chance that the N900 will /ever/ be able to act as a USB host?09:37
ScribbleJI really think Magtek's prices on Bluetooth swipers are insane.09:37
crashanddiethe simple fact that dedicated hardware isolates keys, processing and bugs... Having the same memory used for storing pretty pictures in your browser, and store your private encryption key and have everyone access the whole of the memory is a scary thought09:38
crashanddieit also means than any compromised terminal would be able to rob everything you have...09:38
ScribbleJWell, hang on there.09:38
crashanddieWhereas in a hardware module (smartcard, usb dongle), the hardware does the computation, and the key never leaves the hardware09:38
ScribbleJIf the terminal is comprmised but does not have root then there is little to worry about in a good setup - and if the terminal is compromised and the attacker does have root, he'll be able to access your mounted hardware encrypted drive just as easily as a software one.09:39
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: why not "killall browserd" ? much shorter to type09:39
crashanddieScribbleJ: not talking about encrypted hard drive here09:39
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crashanddieScribbleJ: smart card for example, will never export the data it contains09:40
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ScribbleJHe'll be able to read the unencrypted bits from memory then, on their way to the card.09:40
ScribbleJIt doesn't matter if you're doing hardware of software; if you let someone compromise your system all bets are off.09:40
crashanddieScribbleJ: if you have the PIN, you can ask it to do some computation for you, but you can't get the keys... Which means that the person who does the attack has a very limited time frame... Only when the user has his smartcard in said device (compromised) can the attack go through09:40
infobotScribbleJ meant: It doesn't matter if you're doing hardware or software; if you let someone compromise your system all bets are off.09:40
ScribbleJOh, that's clever.09:41
ScribbleJI will have to be careful with my regexes.09:41
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ScribbleJcrashanddie, so it's equivalent to doing software encryption on a removable disk, then.09:42
ScribbleJFrom a security perspective, I mean.09:42
crashanddienot at all09:42
ScribbleJHow so?  The attack vectors are identical.09:43
crashanddiehard drive encryption is only one of the things, obviously09:43
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crashanddieok, going to try to give you a pretty good use case09:44
* cehteh does double keying .. with a key on a usb-flash and regenerating that on every login09:44
cehtehinvalidates copies one may do from the flash stick09:45
crashanddiehard drive is encrypted with key K, this is generated randomly at some point, let's admit it's a good long and strong key, symmetric obviously, not easily crackable09:45
crashanddiethis key is encrypted with an asymmetric key, key AK, say a 2048 or 4096 RSA key, generated on a smartcard. This key can be escrowed but let's not waste time on that09:46
ScribbleJSo to attack it, I'm going to need to either - 1) gain root while drive is mounted; 2) gain root while card is inserted, sniff pin and make my own request to card.09:47
crashanddieMy certificate for key AK is signed by a CA, which is owned by my company etc. The software that decrypts the harddrive is loaded before the OS loads, just after the BIOS09:47
ScribbleJOK, so 1) is a great scenario, since I can count on the drive to always be decrypted, right from boot.09:48
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crashanddieScribbleJ: not necessarily, but for the sake of simplicity, let's go for that09:48
ScribbleJBut 1 and 2 are the same as for software, except 2 becomes sniff passphrase for key AK.09:48
pwnguinquick poll: is the camera software stack fast enough to take a picture of lightning?09:48
crashanddiepwnguin: no09:49
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ScribbleJYes and No; the camera source code seems to take a photo by pulling a frame from video, essentially.09:49
crashanddiepwnguin: I don't think you'll find any camera phone that does it09:49
ScribbleJNo reason you couldn't use that technique to photo lightning.09:49
crashanddiepwnguin: not even P&S cameras will be able to do that09:49
pwnguincrashanddie: you seem fairly confident09:50
crashanddieyes, comes with the ego09:50
pwnguinhow long does it take to 'take' a picture?09:50
crashanddiea second? 1.4s?09:50
pwnguinin microseconds09:50
ScribbleJI've got a buddy with some great lightning photos he took on his iPhone.09:50
pwnguincrashanddie: are you including jpegenc in that?09:51
crashanddieif you hadn't guessed, I'm just giving random numbers09:51
crashanddieScribbleJ: pre-emptive shooting probably09:51
ScribbleJYeah, he might have got lucky.09:51
DocScrutinizeronly way09:52
pwnguincrashanddie: i figured if i pressed you for enough figures and facts you'd wind up citing nothing :P09:52
crashanddiepwnguin: still telling you, there's no P&S or lower (and yes, camera phones are lower) that can do proper lightning pictures through causality shots09:53
crashanddieonly pre-emptive shots are possible09:53
pwnguinim not sure why09:53
pwnguinlightning lasts for 400ms09:54
crashanddiepwnguin: how fast are human reactions?09:54
pwnguinfuck that09:54
pwnguinim building a trigger09:54
RST38ht.m.o users appear to be using N900 in India, without screen protector, and already lost their stylus this morning09:54
crashanddiepwnguin: so you're holding a camera, as soon as you see the flash you click...09:54
crashanddiepwnguin: oh, in that case, I don't know09:54
ifreqanyone interested to try motion detector spycam on n900?09:55
crashanddiepwnguin: you'd have to take care of focusing and exposure before though09:55
ifreqtho i got only binaries and conf atm09:55
crashanddiepwnguin: if you can get those completely out of the picture maybe...09:55
ifreqit seems to work nicely :P09:55
ScribbleJifreq, streaming, or just storing?09:55
ifreqstoring, but i guess it has the inc webserver.. havent tested that yet09:55
ScribbleJit it just a port of motion?09:55
ifreqjust tested for motion detectiong/pic saving09:55
ifreqScribbleJ: yeah09:55
ifreqcompiled it yesterday and did the confs09:56
ScribbleJI'll pass then, nice job though.09:56
ifreqy :)09:56
ScribbleJI'd recommend just calling it motion.09:56
pwnguinmy question is mainly, if i construct a gstreamer pipeline and send it a play signal at on detection, if the underlying software is low latency enough09:56
ScribbleJDon't get fancy. :P09:56
ifreqneed to figure out next howto make proper debs and shit09:56
ifreqScribbleJ: naah nvm :) not my style.09:56
ifreqScribbleJ: ill save the shots under DCIM so i can import them automatically ie. atleast on iphoto :)09:57
ifreqremote webstream would be nice too. bbl.09:57
ScribbleJSounds like fun... I've been trying to port some kind of streaming software I can use onto the N900.09:57
ifreqwell motion has inc webserver09:57
ifreqbut you want stream to next hop i guess?09:58
ScribbleJstreaming straight from gstreamer is an incredible hassle and it's only got some support for rtp.09:58
ifreqScribbleJ: what about vlc?09:58
crashanddiepwnguin: might want to do automated shootnig mode -- just bursting the whole time09:58
ScribbleJvlc is a good choice but it taxes the N900 a bit.09:58
pwnguincrashanddie: so basically video at 1fps or whatever the highest resolution operates at09:58
ScribbleJI tried porting over mjpeg_streamer but right now am having a mmap() problem.  It can't mmap() to /dev/video*09:59
crashanddiepwnguin: pretty much09:59
ifreqScribbleJ: would be nice to get frontcam enabled on motion too.. i could run it as a deamon and if it gets stolen it takes pics from the guy continuoysly and emails them :P09:59
pwnguincrashanddie: i'd probably want to turn off jpegenc09:59
ifreqnot useful really. but funny thought09:59
crashanddiepwnguin: my camera supports burst mode around 4FPS09:59
ScribbleJNot much to do to enable frontacam; rear is /dev/video0 and front is /dev/video109:59
crashanddiepwnguin: and that's with raw and jpg encoding09:59
ScribbleJFrontcam quality is pretty awful though.09:59
ifreqScribbleJ: yeah but it doesnt work well with motion atleast.. or i need to open it first10:00
crashanddieso roughly 20M dumped to SD card per picture10:00
ifreqi think you need to initiate it 1st before you can use it?10:00
pwnguincrashanddie: there's also a cooldown period thats's basically a lightning strike wide that i can see10:00
crashanddiepwnguin: obviously, you could speed up the process by basically taking picture and just keeping it in RAM10:00
pwnguinDocScrutinizer: happen to have a datasheet on the camera?10:00
crashanddiepwnguin: and do a burst of X pictures based on that... Once ram is full dump to disc10:01
DocScrutinizernot of that specific one10:01
pwnguinDocScrutinizer: so you know which specific one it is?10:01
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DocScrutinizernot even that10:01
pwnguini really need to start a quality teardown website10:02
DocScrutinizerbut I know how long a lightning flash takes10:02
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DocScrutinizerand that's much shorter than even the time you need to move the trigger button from released to engaged posuition10:03
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: read up10:03
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crashanddiewe're past that already :)10:03
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: I was more thinking along the lines of a burst of pictures around a specific time10:04
DocScrutinizeryour only chance is you catch a lightning by incident during exposure time10:04
pwnguinive seen people use IR triggers with serious cameras10:04
DocScrutinizerno way10:04
crashanddieyes, it works10:05
DocScrutinizerit works as usually you get lightning bursts10:05
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: the thing is need you need a massive aperture, usually f1.4 or even lower, and 1/6000th shutter speed10:06
DocScrutinizera cam capapble of 1/6000 might actually be fast enough to trigger on the lightning, using a IR sensor10:08
DocScrutinizerif it's a electronic cam, no mechanical parts to move10:08
ifreqhmm.. motions webserver comes up but cant connect to it on LAN.10:10
* RST38h wonders why put an Arduino controller into something that is clearly analogue10:11
ScribbleJHe said he's a hardware moron.10:11
pwnguinRST38h: i think he wanted something that can adapt quickly to lighting conditions10:11
ScribbleJWhy use an arduino where $5 of parts from Radio Shack would do?10:12
RST38hpwnguin: he gives a program there, and it does not adapt to anything10:12
pwnguinso you change the threshhold without redoing the circuit10:12
ScribbleJpwnguin, all you need is a potentiometer10:12
pwnguinRST38h: you could concievably do something like a pot and an opamp10:12
RST38hUS astronomer Frank Drake has told scientists at a special SETI meeting in London that earthlings are making it less likely that we will be heard in space. In the past, we used huge ground stations to broadcast radio and television signals which could be picked up relatively easily  according to astronomers' calculations anyway. Now we use satellites that transmit at 75 watts and point toward Earth instead of into space.10:13
ScribbleJAnyhow, he gets points for getting it done, in my book.10:13
ScribbleJYou use the tools you have.10:13
RST38hMust be a good thing though.10:13
pwnguinbut it doesnt matter because afaik n900 doesn't have an IR trigger10:14
crashanddielol, of course not10:14
RST38hGiven this:
pwnguinwhich is my other worry at this stage10:14
ScribbleJpwnguin, how do you plan to interface the trigger to the n900?10:15
DocScrutinizerpwnguin: lol. it actually has10:15
crashanddieRST38h: yeah, looking at how humanity has always gone to war as soon as they discovered a new continent or people, I was actually wondering why people were looking forward to be picked up in space10:15
pwnguinDocScrutinizer: i thought it was just an IR led?10:15
ScribbleJpwnguin, no, it does in and out.10:15
pwnguinoh thats handy10:16
pupnik_the Ur-Quan will be in this sector soon, anyway10:16
ScribbleJI'm not clear on whether it would be useful for this though; can it read analog levels?10:16
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RST38hcrashanddie: And very few are even considering a case where we get discovered by something so totally unhuman, that we look like vermin to it10:16
DocScrutinizerambient light sensor has IR-only and a separate allband sensor10:16
RST38h(or food. or funny sex toys.)10:16
pupnik_Douglas Adams thought of it10:16
ScribbleJOh, I did no tknow that, that's even cooler.10:16
pupnik_well more like eminent domain10:16
RST38hpupnik: Also, Peter Watts ("Blindsight")10:16
crashanddieRST38h: slavery taught me you don't need to look unlike someone to be despised...10:16
DocScrutinizerpwnguin: alas it's way too slow for your purpose10:17
RST38hcrashanddie: Actually, slaery is a different thing10:17
pupnik_maybe we shouldn't be broadcasting into space10:17
ScribbleJRST, have you read "MAde of MEat?10:17
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pwnguinthe other options are USB, bluetooth and the headphone jack. and i guess the mic10:17
ScribbleJ  Will take you five minutes to read, very funny.10:17
RST38hcrashanddie: Slavery started because it was economically desireable, and all the dehumanising stuff came later to make slaveholders feel better10:17
pupnik_hey at least we communicate with electrons and not flappy food orifices10:17
RST38hScribble: Of course I read the original short story =)10:18
DocScrutinizerheadphone jack might be feasible10:18
ScribbleJpwnguin, how do you list USB as an option?10:18
RST38hcrashanddie: In fact, first slaves were white, and initially there was not much tension between them and the black slaves10:18
pwnguinScribbleJ: ive got an arduino mega that does usb B =(10:18
RST38h(unless of course our American History class instructior lied :))10:19
pupnik_RST38h: i recall very early versions of MAME had much faster vector game rendering.  do you know if any other major slowdowns have occurred for MAME globally in the past 12 years?10:19
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RST38hpupnik: Well, I do not know much about MAME but it definitely became slower over past 12 years as emulation precision improved10:20
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pupnik_let's just say this N900 version is a rather academic exercise10:20
ScribbleJShoudln't an N900 be perfectly capable of running most mame games, int heory?10:21
DocScrutinizerso use holdbutton on headset10:21
RST38htry mame4all, should be better10:21
ScribbleJI dont' see why it should be academic.10:21
DocScrutinizermost simple approach, and has potential for low latency10:21
pupnik_because many console games are too powerful to emulate10:22
pwnguinemulation overhead can be brutal10:22
pwnguinesp on older stuff thats got analog parts10:22
ScribbleJBut we're talking about mame; it's got a catalog of excellent games that aren't even as taxing as the gameboy.10:22
RST38hpwnguin: you almost never get to deal with hw that old, even in emulation10:22
pwnguinRST38h: true; im mostly thinking of atari10:23
ifreqwhere i can request for new software?10:23
pupnik_yeah analog console games.  those were the days ... cough10:23
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ifreqi can compile the sw myself.. but cant debug whats wrong so i need some expert to check it10:23
RST38hFairchild stuff has been ages ago. And it ended up as a digital chip anyway.10:24
pupnik_it was called "pinball"10:24
ifreq <-- compiles ok for armel but when running it eats a piece from x-terminal and does nothing :P10:24
jkimball4You lot seen the new firefox for maemo?10:24
ifreqim sure many ppl agree its important piece of sw!10:24
ScribbleJHahahah, that's funny, ifreq10:25
crashanddieRST38h: whether or not your history teacher was wrong or not10:25
ifreqScribbleJ: yeh, wish i got it running tho.. it works on X86 scratchbox OK10:25
crashanddieRST38h: the important bit isn't so much what happened exactly (let's allow history to write itself, right?)10:25
ifreqbut on armel it does something i really cant figure out10:25
crashanddieRST38h: but rather that a people is able to animalise another people just in the name of greed10:25
crashanddieRST38h: and also, slavery wasn't only something that happened in america...10:26
pwnguinthe jews were slaves way back in the pharoh's day10:26
pupnik_i was a slave for about 45 percent of my workday10:26
pwnguinif you take the bible's word for it10:26
ProteousI'm a slave to coffee10:26
RST38hcrashanddie: Yea, but this is not what I meant10:27
Proteoussuch a tasty, tasty master10:27
crashanddiemy slave went to the shops to get me food10:27
RST38hcrashanddie: In all these cases you are talking about, people come up with all kinds of theories "proving" that the people they opress are kinda inferior so it is ok10:27
crashanddie(no seriously, I was like "Hey, can you go grab me some food?", and she just went "OK", and left)10:27
crashanddieok, time for a fag10:28
RST38hcrashanddie: Imagine something that comes from space and does not even VIEW you as sentient life, or "life" at all in its own definition10:28
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: even without sudo?10:28
RST38hcrashanddie: You are a germ, and the guy with Lizol comes and sainitizes the toilet bowl10:28
crashanddieRST38h: such as the Star Trek TOS episode where they find the silicon-based life form?10:28
crashanddierather than carbon?10:29
Proteousugly bags of mostly water10:29
Proteousthat's us10:29
* RST38h isn't aquainted with every single ST episode, fortunately =)10:29
crashanddieor the Doctor Who episode where they realise the sun is a life form?10:29
RST38hthis one neither10:29
crashanddiehand in your geek credentials10:29
RST38hcrashanddie: But that little "They are meat!" story is a good candidate10:29
crashanddieok, will have a look10:30
RST38hcrashanddie: Or the Blindsight novel by Watts10:30
pwnguincrashanddie: well, communists had little reason to develop sci fi allegories for communist infiltration10:30
DocScrutinizerprepare for dooooom :-D10:30
RST38hOr maybe The Roadside Picnic by Strugatsky brothers10:30
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RST38hcrashanddie: I am not a geek. Nerd is the most you can squeeze out of me.10:31
crashanddieRST38h: you're on IRC, not only that but on FreeNode, not only that but in #maemo, and you're arguing a point about aliens invading earth10:31
crashanddieyou're about as much of a geek as they get mate10:31
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pwnguinan ipad running maemo10:43
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crashanddiepwnguin: how quaint of you, so that's what the picture was displaying10:44
crashanddiethanks for illuminating us, Captain Obvious10:44
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pwnguinits late10:45
pwnguinim going to bed10:45
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doc|homesome things will never change ^11:01
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Proteousinfobot being on the server that gets lost in the netsplit?11:06
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Proteous01:00 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Gilly, HouseAway, kurtan, Shapeshifter, infobot, tybollt11:06
Proteous01:02 -!- Netsplit over, joins: kurtan, Shapeshifter, infobot, Gilly, HouseAway, tybollt11:06
Proteousanyway, wasn't asking11:07
ProteousI was questioning doc|home's comment11:07
crashanddieoh my bad, didn't see it11:07
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pupnikwell that wasn't so painful, now was it11:08
Proteousmy eyes are still red from all the crying when you all left me11:08
doc|homeProteous: no, just the netsplit itself11:08
crashanddiepupnik: I can make it painful for you11:08
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crashanddiebloody hell11:11
crashanddiefucking line umpires can't just change a match like that!11:12
Proteousthis is #maemo11:12
Proteousyou know, a channel about the maemo OS?11:12
Proteousnot facebook11:12
Proteousmust join #bacon11:13
crashanddieI don't think I interrupted any important discussion?11:13
crashanddieProteous: and if you're unhappy, that's all the same11:13
Proteousall the same as what?11:13
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crashanddieas in: I don't care?11:14
Proteoussame as in interrupted discussion?11:14
pwnguincan anyone identify that keyboard?11:14
ProteousI don't get it11:14
crashanddieProteous: I don't care about your opinion11:14
crashanddieclear enough for you11:14
ProteousI'm suprised11:14
Proteousbut just a little11:14
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Proteousif that is possible11:14
crashanddiefor crying out loud, I'm just commenting on a tennis match, do you really need to troll on everything?11:15
Proteouswow, for soemone who doesn't care about my opinion you sure do talk to me a lot11:15
RST38hFight! Fight!11:16
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RST38hIn the Arena of Death!11:16
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jkimball4is there a command to reload icons?11:29
jkimball4i got a couple blue squares here..11:29
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Proteousa reboot usualy helps11:29
jkimball4if i were on windows then yeah11:29
Proteouseven helps on a n90011:29
Proteousdid you try it an it didn't solve the problem?11:29
jkimball4usually in *nix land we don't need to reboot11:30
jkimball4i'm not going to reboot for an icon hehe11:30
Proteousto easy for ya huh11:30
jkimball4i just remembered hearing about a proggie to do it11:30
jkimball4ah..looks like someone said there's no more icon chace11:33
Proteousyou could try removing the shortcut then readding it I guess11:34
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Stskeepsfor other people interested in what a distmaster -actually- does,
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* MohammadAG wonders why his motor vibrates for 5 minutes, then breaks again for a week12:04
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acidjazzthat was odd i didnt get the notification to register12:09
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crashanddieanyone watching the game (henin vs williams)?12:11
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wazdHeya all12:18
Stskeepsmorning wazd12:19
Stskeepshow are you doing?12:19
wazdFreezing, waiting for the bus)12:19
acidjazzman this hoarding show is totally freaky12:19
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fluxhmph, is there a way to open links in tabs with the firefox mobile, without keyboard?12:21
acidjazzin ff ctrl+click does a passive tab open to a link12:21
acidjazzshift+click is a new window12:21
acidjazztry those or im ugessing no12:21
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fluxhowever, ctrl and shift are both on the keyboard :)12:22
wazdStskeeps: i think i'm gonna release marina 1.0 today12:24
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wazdStskeeps: screw that black inputs12:24
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w00twazd: having problems with them still?12:26
w00t(updated, btw, the active window brown text is .. much more readable! :P)12:26
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wazdW00t: yeah, its simply impossible to make em black12:27
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wazdWithout ruining everything else12:27
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chaoyihello, any one could help me about my n900 keyboard?12:35
crashanddieit works a lot better when you actually ask a question...12:35
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chaoyiwhen i press shift + blue arrow + J, it is as if k is pressed too12:36
crashanddiewhat is shift + blue arrow + J supposed to yield?12:37
Stskeepswazd: when are you back on a desktop btw?12:37
chaoyi")" symbol,  i think12:38
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crashanddiechaoyi: isn't that simply blue arrow + j?12:38
chaoyibut it displays ")&", same think for shift arrow + k12:38
crashanddiechaoyi: don't use shift12:38
chaoyicrashanddie: yes, but i am trying to remap level 312:38
crashanddiewell obviously the multiplexing is causing issues12:39
chaoyicrashanddie: seems like other keys do not have this problem except j k12:39
crashanddiechaoyi: j and k work fine on their own?12:39
crashanddiei dunno12:40
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chaoyicrashanddie: thank you all the same; i am not sure it's only the problem of my keyboard12:41
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chaoyicrashanddie: would any one has a n900 type "shift + blue arrow + j" in the terminal and see if there are two symbols ")&" pops up?12:43
crashanddiechaoyi: sure, hang on12:43
chaoyicrashanddie: thank you crashanddie12:43
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crashanddiechaoyi: confirmed, same behaviour here12:44
chaoyicrashanddie: thank you, guess i should skip these two for remapping on level 312:44
fragmentI get ); instead12:44
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crashanddiefragment: you probably have a specific key layout?12:45
fragmentcrashanddie: finnish/swedish keymap12:45
crashanddiechaoyi: interesting bug though, could you check bmo to see if there's a bug for it12:45
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fragmentcrashanddie: same with the key "k"12:46
crashanddiefragment: yes, j and k do the same12:46
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: It should be safe now to set chanmode to -q $~a12:47
fragmentz and x produce euro sign and $12:47
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: there's a q?12:47
DocScrutinizerthat's the new -/+R12:47
crashanddiehang on12:48
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: we only have R when there's bots12:48
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chaoyicrashanddie: couldn't find related info in bmo, i use keyword "keyboard" "rx-51"12:50
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: do you have a website documenting the new registered mask?12:51
crashanddiemeh, was hoping for a blogpost or something12:51
crashanddiedamn... Henin lost :(12:51
DocScrutinizer[2010-01-30 10:17:25] <mquin> DocScrutinizer: it will have been translated to '+q $~a'12:53
crashanddie"Traditionally, full moon was associated with strange behaviour among humans and animals. It was believed that full moon leads to temporal insomnia, insanity, and magical phenomenon like lycanthropy. But psychologists state that the connection is nonexistent."12:53
crashanddiemy favourite sentence of the month: who writes this shit?12:54
crashanddie"psychologists" debunked werewolfs?12:54
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: is as good as it gets for now I think12:55
crashanddieyeah, aware of that, I'm guessing the new q filter is due to the new hyperion version12:57
rangeYeah. +q $~a doesn't tell the user to go and register anymore, though. +R's behaviour was better.12:57
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: anyway -q $~a is confirmed to remove ""+R"" for #openmoko*12:57
DocScrutinizerno hyperion version. ircd12:57
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`0660crashanddie, in that quote it is only said that psychologists say there is no connection between werewolfes and full moon12:58
`0660they say nothing about werewolfes being not real :)12:59
crashanddiewell they say there is no connection between lycanthropy and full moon... and what's a werewolf without a full moon? just a big wolf13:00
jaskahowling in frustration13:00
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, having worked retail quite extensively. I can tell you that those "psychologists" are full of shit. :D13:05
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, also: leaving both bathroom doors open (they face eathother across the room) and allowing their mirrors to reflect one another creates a vortex.13:06
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, transparency my ass! I smell karma whoring. :P13:07
crashanddieyeah, I'm removing my thanks from that post Stskeeps !13:07
wazdGeneralAntilles: check out his signature, Sherlock :D13:08
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wazdThresh: moaning13:08
GeneralAntillesGod that's depressing. the N900 is losing out to the freaking Blackberry.13:09
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: heh13:09
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: at least i can point people to this when they ask what i -actually- do around here13:09
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, yeah.13:10
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wazdE63 is the best blackberry13:12
wazdN900 can't  stand a chance13:12
Stskeepsas a blackberry, yeah13:12
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wazdI wonder if anyone will be sued for "blueberry" trademark :D13:13
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: crashanddie:
DocScrutinizernot much on +R recommendation getting obsolete. But it's obviously self evident13:15
* SpeedEvil ponders a burberry n900 case.13:15
wazdBarbery Bold :D13:16
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wazd~seen qwerty1213:18
infobotqwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 57d 16h 54m 20s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'.13:18
wazdThat's the spirit13:18
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GeneralAntillesWe seriously need to fix the default Bugzilla search.13:24
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lbthmm does maemo sponsor freenode at all?13:25
GeneralAntilleslbt, not that I'm aware of.13:25
GeneralAntillesOf the 3651 bugs filed in the past 4 months, 555 have been marked DUPLICATE.13:25
lbtseems like the council should throw something their way?13:25
LuciusMarei tried "mplayer v4l2:///dev/video0" but it does not work - what is the right command?13:25
SpeedEvil3651! slacker!13:26
SpeedEvilmplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video013:26
GeneralAntilleslbt, of their personal funds?13:26
SpeedEvilalso - remember to open the pod-bay-doors.13:26
lbtGeneralAntilles: no :)13:26
GeneralAntilleslbt, well, there's no discretionary fund as of yet. ;)13:26
LuciusMareSpeedEvil: so, no video 4 linux? Okay,then13:26
lbtit just seems that #maemo and the rest are really valuable to the community13:26
Stskeepslbt, sponsoring freenode gives me lilo vibes13:26
SpeedEvilLuciusMare: it's a v4l2 source - I haven'/t seen that form of invocation for mplayer13:27
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* lbt prefers grub13:27
* SpeedEvil still uses lilo.13:27
SpeedEvilDoes what it says on the tin.13:27
lbtGeneralAntilles: have you used Novell's bugzill13:28
GeneralAntilleslbt, not recently.13:28
lbtseriously worth a quick look13:28
GeneralAntilleslbt, I think I poked around it a while ago for the same reason you're telling me now.13:28
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lbtStep 1 of 3 - has your bug already been reported?13:28
GeneralAntilleslbt, guided submission form.13:28
lbtpractically forces a search13:28
GeneralAntilleslbt, blocking on 3.413:28
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lbtnah, it allows a straight submit13:29
lbt*waaaay* down the page :)13:29
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GeneralAntilleslbt, no, we're blocking on that with the 3.4 upgrade. :)13:29
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lbtIs it part of std bugzilla now?13:29
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GeneralAntillesIt's part of bugzilla in 2.2.13:30
GeneralAntillesBut there have been some improvements with 3.413:30
GeneralAntillesand we want to do a number of our own, too.13:30
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lbt*nod* - granny + eggs eh? <grin>13:30
GeneralAntilleslbt, if somebody could con tekojo into giving Karsten some more hours to work on it. . . . ;)13:31
lbthe's not doing bzilla is he?13:32
GeneralAntillesHe's working on the 3.4 upgrade.13:32
lbthe should blog about this stuff13:32
GeneralAntillesRemember, he was the technical part of the Bugmaster position until Nokia poached him. . . .13:32
GeneralAntillesHe has been, I think.13:32
lbtis that syndicated?13:33
lbtto planet?13:33
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Stskeeps30BAAAKIN: that's such an illegal nickname13:33
QuibusHahahaha! :D13:34
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* RST38h moos at all the present13:36
jophishin which repository is portmap?13:37
* Corsac moos RST38h 13:37
* SpeedEvil turns Corsacbox upside down again13:38
* lbt loww back13:38
* Corsac moos again13:38
Corsacwell technically a Corsac is a fox so “moo” might not be exactly accurate13:39
* wazd moos back with his lowest voice13:39
SpeedEvilCorsac: Only for animals that conform to their stereotypes.13:39
RST38hwazd: how is suffering today? =)13:40
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infobotcrashanddie meant: green13:42
* crashanddie test13:42
jophishwould somebody be able to post their /etc/apt/sources.list?13:43
jophishwhen trying to install nfs-common, it is no in any of my repos, however it is referenced by other packages. portmap is not available at all13:44
wazdRst38h: my knee hurts, I'm freezing, well, really good :)13:44
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RST38hwazd: at least the lights are on13:44
wazdRst38h: heh)13:45
wazdIt's cold even in subway13:46
RST38hwazd: And, thanks to Steve Jobs, we can all be looking forward to a Maemo tablet =)13:46
wazdMaybe I'm sick (13:46
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wazdrst38h: in 2 years)13:47
RST38hwazd: Well, trips to the Moon are cancelled for at least 10 years, so maemotablet looks like a really nice goal at 2 years =)13:47
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wazdMaemo team needs it's own Steve Jobs :)13:48
* wazd whistles13:48
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RST38hThen they would be doing something completely different13:49
RST38has to not to copy the original Steve =)13:49
wazdThat's the plan)13:49
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wazdPixel Qi screen + stantum touchscreen + modified wacom pen13:51
wazdN 98523613:51
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RST38hwazd: Wholething made by Wacom and sold for $5999.9913:53
wazdStantum for positioning, pen with some wireless channel,small battery and pressure reader13:53
wazdRsT38h: yeah13:53
crashanddiehow about a phone with a triple screen?13:53
RST38hBTW, as someone already mentioned, iPad seems to make a hell of a table game platform13:53
crashanddiewhen it's closed, two of the screens are protected, and you have 1 screen facing outwards13:54
zaheermand given free to all with positive karma on
RST38hLike Microsoft Surface only handheld and affordable13:54
wazdRst38h: and it's 30" screen)13:54
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zaheermRST38h, i prefer my pool table :)13:54
crashanddieso that you can use it without unfolding it13:54
RST38hzaheerm: does it show pretty images too? =)13:54
wazdRsT38h: 9"? Don't think so13:54
RST38hwazd: It is sufficient, really13:54
zaheermRST38h, depends how good your shots are :)13:55
wazdRst38h: nah)13:55
RST38hwazd: consider the size of a typical table game foldout13:55
wazdRst38h: 15"13:55
zaheermtable games are 6 feet long13:55
wazdRst38h: or even more13:55
RST38hwazd: diagonally? yea, sounds right13:55
zaheermor even 9 feet13:55
wazdRsT38h: have you seen em lately?)13:55
zaheermwe need an iPad maxi13:56
RST38hwazd: But can 9" do at the cost of making pieces smaller?13:56
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RST38hwazd: Yea, lots of D&D people around13:56
zaheermyou talking about chess/draughts ?13:56
RST38hwazd: Even publishing their own magazine with their own game knockoffs and making their own pieces13:56
wazdRsT38h: then you can use n900 for that :)13:56
RST38hwazd: Some plastic factory in Gelendzhik (yea, I know ;)) makes and sells them13:57
RST38hwazd: I would be willing to try implementing something like that on n90013:57
RST38hwazd: Provided somebody does the artwork13:57
wazdRsT38h: things like warhammer anf suff have its worth in handpainted figures, not field13:57
wazdRsT38h: and you can play monopoly via snes emu :P13:58
RST38hwazd: Yea, but have you ever played Japanese strategy stuff? Like the Final Fantasy Tactics?13:58
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wazdRsT38h: on PS13:58
RST38hwazd: Well I played the GBA version13:59
RST38hwazd: Imagine something like that on a larger board with networking13:59
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plastunhello, how to remove package from extras-devel? is it possible?14:06
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RST38hAsk X-Fade, he will do it for you14:07
RST38hjeremiah can also help14:07
Arkenoihow do i restart contacts widget without reboot? <- this bug is damn annoying14:07
povbotBug 8691: Contacts widget crashing when trying to place SIP call14:07
RST38hArkenoi: if cycling it does not help, ps -ax | grep telepathy and kill by pid14:08
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ArkenoiRST38h, nope, killing telepathy does restart communication services but does not affect desktop widgets14:11
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RST38hArkenoi: Hmm then14:14
* RST38h is not exactly sure WHAT crashes for Arkenoi14:14
Arkenoirst38h: contacts desktop widget. it dies taking all contacts off desktop14:15
Arkenoiuntil reboot14:15
Arkenoias i know now way to restart it14:15
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RST38hArkenoi: go to edit-desktop, disable it, enable it again?14:16
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Arkenoirst38h: disable what?14:17
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RST38hAerkenoi: oh shit, there IS nothing to disable =(14:18
* RST38h understands the problem now14:18
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Arkenoirst38h: seems that placing sip call in "bad state" may crash almost anything whatever app it initiated it. quite strange architecture..14:22
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RST38hArkenoi: When you see konttori here, please, bring this bug to his attention14:24
RST38hArkenoi: It is stability related, so theoretically should get top priority14:24
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achipais there something cuckoo with the builders ?14:25
achipaI just managed to somehow build the same package twice (at least it got built two times in a row...)14:25
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RST38harmel and i386 maybe?14:32
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LuciusMarehi, i dont know if this can be caused also by the maemo, but - i have ssh server running on my tablet, i connected to it, with -X and ran an app that needs X, but it ran on the tablet14:33
inzyeah, some scripts override the DISPLAY env var14:34
inzi notived that too14:34
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LuciusMareso, how did you solve it?14:38
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LuciusMarehm - "echo $DISPLAY → :014:41
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LuciusMareso this might be the problem?14:42
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inzlucius, yep, with ssh the display is usually :10, but that didnt help for me14:44
inzseems that the x11 forwarding is broken14:44
inzmissing xhost or sth14:45
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LuciusMarethat sucks14:46
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LuciusMarethere is a sshd instance on my tablet14:53
LuciusMareno matter how many times i kill it, it always appears again14:53
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GeneralAntillesUninstall it . . . ?14:55
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LuciusMarei want it to run only at specified times, no need to have it always running14:55
GeneralAntillesHow are you "killing" it?14:56
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LuciusMare"ps aux|grep sshd|awk '{ print $1 }'|xargs kill" ;)14:56
GeneralAntillesHow about "stop sshd"? :)14:56
LuciusMarethat didnt appear in my mind14:57
LuciusMarebut what else does it do, than killing it?14:57
LuciusMarealso, it also always runs with -D14:57
GeneralAntillesYou're going through upstart that way.14:57
QuibusWhat's the typical time before someone responds to a request for an extras account on garage?14:58
LuciusMare"while [1]; do; ps aux|grep sshd|awk '{ print $1 }'|xargs kill; sleep 2 ;done"14:58
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SpeedEvilawk '/sshd/{print $1}'14:59
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SpeedEvilor even awk '/sshd/{system("kill "$1}'15:00
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LuciusMareheh, the only command i know for awk is print $numberofcollumn15:00
GeneralAntillesQuibus, 48 hours.15:00
SpeedEvilor more sanely, kill `pidof sshd`15:00
GeneralAntillesQuibus, weekdays.15:00
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LuciusMarepidof sshd|xargs kill15:01
LuciusMareanyway,what does it do? the /sshd/system... ?15:02
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fluxluciusmare, how about 'stop sshd'15:03
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SpeedEvil /foo/ is a pattern. {action} is an action - it is run every time the pattern matches.15:03
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fluxluciusmare, and you can start it again with 'start'15:04
SpeedEvilSo '/foo/{print "I saw foo"}/bar/{print "I saw bar"}15:04
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SpeedEvilPatterns can also be expressions - such as awk '!a[$4]++'15:04
acidjazzwho here is writing python apps15:04
SpeedEvilThis if the 4th column has not been seen before - prints it.15:05
acidjazzis this regex talk15:05
acidjazz<3 awk15:05
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acidjazzu know what also rules15:06
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* SpeedEvil has used awk for realtime DSP.15:06
SpeedEvil(GPS + awk + soundcard hooked to car injector = realtime miles per gallon reading15:06
LuciusMare ?15:06
SpeedEvilit's already available.15:07
QuibusGeneralAntilles: thanks15:07
SpeedEvilLook at
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SpeedEvilbut it uses a bit too much RAM at the moment15:07
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* Alterego thinks xchat needs a few tweaks.15:08
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acidjazzdoesnt the n900 run ff?15:08
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acidjazzwtf u doin usin xchat15:09
acidjazzall about irssi15:09
SpeedEvilacidjazz: yes.15:09
SpeedEvilxchat is nice.15:09
SpeedEviland yes15:09
SpeedEvilscrolly xchat would be nice15:09
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acidjazzimplement swipe up and down in x terminal to pageup pagedown booya15:10
SpeedEvilgo do it!15:10
SpeedEvilimplement it in screen15:10
Corsachmhm, can someone try to edit a contact address and change the country?15:10
SpeedEvilso you can bind gestures to a keystroke.15:10
acidjazzu don tneed to do it in screen15:10
CorsacI only have a text field which but I can't save anything15:10
SpeedEvilbased on the xterm already existing mouse support15:10
acidjazzyea SpeedEvil15:11
acidjazzid do it at the term level itself15:11
acidjazzthe client15:11
* lcuk wants mind control interface for my flying car15:11
SpeedEvildoing it in screen means you can use any terminal on any platform though15:11
acidjazzLOOK ITS 2010 OK15:11
lcukyeah, so wheres my damned duke nukem forever15:11
acidjazzandroid terminal does it15:11
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LuciusMareits fucking 201015:12
SpeedEvilacidjazz: I have plans for a hoverboard.15:12
LuciusMareand majority of us are still using mainly cli apps15:12
acidjazzlol when i was a boy15:12
acidjazzand back to the future came out15:12
SpeedEvilacidjazz: ~80cm*80cm*20cm ~60Kg. 4Km altitude in 5 mins15:12
lcukthey are coming, quadrocopters make for a decent platform15:12
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acidjazzi remember a rumor at school they sold hoverboards at uhm15:12
acidjazzuniversal studios15:12
SpeedEvilacidjazz: $60000 or so in small quantities.15:12
acidjazzi begged for my LIFE to get one to my parents15:12
SpeedEvilacidjazz: though alas quite illegal to ride.15:12
LuciusMareWAIT A MINUTE15:13
LuciusMareyou begged for your llife?15:13
acidjazzin trade of my life15:13
acidjazzi would hold my breath15:13
acidjazzuntil i was blue15:13
LuciusMarepretty normal15:13
Corsacin fact the country seems hardcoded to *my* country15:14
LuciusMarei thought of "i would kill myself if you would give me the hoverboard!"15:14
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acidjazzyea i worded it wrong15:14
acidjazzwhich country Corsac15:14
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acidjazzwtf would you need countrys in contacts15:14
acidjazzyou konw that many ppl?15:14
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LuciusMareI personally see no use for the "gender" collumn anyway15:15
lcukacidjazz, please dont insult users who do things differently to you15:15
SpeedEvilacidjazz: consider - you're in belgium - and you're given a local number for someone in the UK by a german.15:15
acidjazzi dont mean to insult w/ logical reason15:15
lcukand cant hermes like install all 7000000000 of your facebook contacts15:16
acidjazzfuck hermes15:16
acidjazzthat shit messes it up bad15:16
acidjazzdont try it15:16
Corsacacidjazz: hen you enter an address15:16
Corsacacidjazz: in my case, when I add an address to a contact, the country is hardcoded to France15:17
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acidjazzthats odd15:17
acidjazzi never noticed a country15:18
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acidjazzyea dood no country15:18
acidjazzare you talkin about maemo?15:18
LuciusMareHoly crap why did i just read your nick as "acidjizz?"15:19
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ieatlintacidjazz, are you on meth? or perhaps a tad manic?15:19
acidjazzjust not really paying attention i guess15:19
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jophishwhen trying to install nfs-common, it is no in any of my repos, however it is referenced by other packages. portmap is not available at all15:20
Corsacacidjazz: try to add an address to a contact15:21
CorsacI submitted #8693 in case you want the steps15:22
acidjazzmines defaulted to usa15:22
lcukbug #869315:22
povbotBug contact country address hardcoded to the owner's country15:22
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acidjazzsorry i was looking @ fields not addresses15:22
acidjazzwhats the bug?15:22
Corsacthat I can't change the country15:23
Corsaccan you?15:23
acidjazzmade a contact from tunisia15:23
andre__known bug15:23
ieatlinti can too15:23
acidjazzworks fine15:23
Corsacandre__: damn, I didn't find it15:24
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povbotBug 7515: List of countries not shown on tapping the country picker button15:24
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ieatlintperhaps a localisation issue15:25
ieatlintworks fine here in us english15:25
Corsacor acidjazz uses 2009.52 :)15:25
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CorsacI use uk english here15:26
Corsacand regional settings are set to France15:26
ieatlint2.2009.51-1.002 here15:26
acidjazzhow do i find my version15:26
acidjazzor build15:26
ieatlintgo to settings and select "about product"15:27
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ieatlintit should also be listed in your installed packages in the app manager... the package being "Maemo"15:30
acidjazzlol ive downloaded 3 versions of this movie and i cannot find a damn english subbed version15:31
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Stskeepswb wazd16:03
crashanddieStskeeps: shut up, your karma whore :P16:03
wazdStskeeps: reheya, home at last16:04
Stskeepsno karma for irc16:04
wazdStskeeps: ++16:04
Stskeepswazd: could i interest you in helping me with some css?16:04
wazdStskeeps: sure16:04
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RST38h"How to redesign the internal combustion engine to run on human blood, using only pre-existing parts."16:05
Stskeepsexcellent for the battlefield16:06
RST38h...and not only..16:06
SpeedEvilRST38h: Dry the blood, supply it as a powder, and use a modified deisel engine.16:06
SpeedEvilRST38h: lubrication will be a problem - as the ash will be abrasive.16:06
SpeedEvilModified - as you'll need to swap the injector for a system similar to a carbureter - but designed to dispense powder.16:07
SpeedEvilAlso - large / slow  engines will work best - the combustion velocity will be slow.16:08
RST38hPractical, ain't we? =)16:08
SpeedEvilNoX levels may be a problem if you want to use it in some legislations.16:09
crashanddiedried blood burns?16:09
crashanddiewhat's the calorie level?16:09
SpeedEvildried organic anything burns - pretty much16:09
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crashanddieI can see how vegetable oil can be used instead of diesel, I have a hard time comprehending how powder would work the same way16:10
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: look up grain elevator explosions.16:10
SpeedEvilThere were efforts to get engines running on coal dust.16:10
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SpeedEvilIt works - but abrasion is a horrible problem.16:10
wazdYou won't have many bodies to use in current conflicts16:11
SpeedEvildiesel - old engines - simply put a fine spray of oil droplets into the air.16:11
SpeedEvilIf you replace that with a fine powder it still works16:11
inzYou mean blood would combust without ignition?16:11
acidjazzwould it combust at alL?16:12
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RST38hwazd: one word: haiti16:12
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SpeedEvilinz: yes. - dried.16:13
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SpeedEvilinz: any powder in an atmosphere that is heated to several thousand C - as it is in a diesel type engine - combusts vigourously.16:13
RST38hCanadians deliver:
wazdRst38h: and seriously, I thought it's unethic enough :)16:13
crashanddieSpeedEvil: so same idea as cornstarch?16:13
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: yes16:13
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RST38hwazd: well, if the locals make barricades of them, why not burn them as fuel?16:14
inzSpeed, who heats it up?16:14
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wazdRst38h: cause you're more human than them?)16:15
SpeedEvilinz: the compression.16:15
SpeedEvilinz: if you compress a gas - it heats up.
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acidjazzlol RST38h16:17
acidjazzthe haiti comment16:17
acidjazztoo soon?16:17
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inzSpeed, oh yeah, of course it does =)16:18
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inzSpeed, silly me16:19
RST38hwazd: I have not said I am going to burn them as fuel personally =)16:20
wazdAcidjazz: well, shit happens16:21
RST38hwazd: but, of course, not because I am somehow more human, mostly because I am squeamish16:21
wazdAcidjazz: if you think that life in Haiti was like in paradise before the quake - think again16:22
wazdRst38h: heh)16:22
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adalalhello all... any reason why my msn plugin for the contacts keeps timing out (Network Error), and I have to restart the phone for it to get back online... re16:34
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Andy80anyone of you has tried to install latest Firefox 1.0 for N900?17:09
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Andy80clicking on install link it asks me to add a repository and in the distro name it has "chinook" O_o17:09
fluxworked just fine anyway :)17:10
kimitakeme, too17:10
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acidjazzare contacts in maemo stored in sqlite?17:10
w00tGeneralAntilles: can you (or someone else) set -q $~a in #maemo-devel please? (it's the equivilant of +R, set from when freenode switched server.. shouldn't be needed anymore, as a result of that switch..)17:12
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Stskeepswhy not just switch to +C?17:13
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dotblankwell I just flased my n900... didn't run into anyproblems.. I thought the backup app works really well17:18
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dotblankI used to yell ping in the hallways at school and sometimes a random person would yell pong17:21
ieatlintyou should've yelled syn17:22
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dotblankAck! no way17:22
dotblankWho says the n900 doesnt have many apps... I have to download 570mb worth of them17:24
Matthew-dotblank: I dont think you will be able to17:26
threshfor mirroring purposes?17:26
Matthew-i thought on his device ;D17:27
DocScrutinizerw00t: seems chanops are reluctant.17:27
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* DocScrutinizer suggested same some 5h ago :-P17:28
LuciusMarewhy does my n900 always resets his hostname after reboot?17:28
crashanddiew00t: we don't have +R, we only set it during obvious bot attacks17:28
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: you *have*17:28
crashanddieLuciusMare: because he wants to17:28
acidjazzlol wazd so because life was hard there its less of a deal 150k of em died?17:28
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dotblankMatthew-, I just did17:28
LuciusMareand how do i make it stop? I want to set my own hostname17:28
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: just it's called +q $~a  now17:29
acidjazzdotblank: mb != count17:29
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: beg your pardon?17:29
dotblankacidjazz, I know :)17:29
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: DocScrutinizer51 can't pst to #maemo17:29
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crashanddie_== Channel modes on #maemo are: +cn17:30
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: /mode -q17:30
crashanddie_I don't see an R17:30
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: just it's called +q $~a  now17:30
Stskeeps /mode #maemo -q $~a17:30
crashanddie_but it's not set!17:31
Stskeepsyes it is17:31
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Stskeeps /mode #maemo q17:31
SpeedEvilLuciusMare: /etc/init.d/rS?17:31
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crashanddie_oh ffs17:32
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crashanddie_better now?17:33
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crashanddie_how about freenode uses a system which shows up in the old queries17:33
petey2I am having problems loging in to the facebook-widget. I am writing the correct email and password but get "wrong email / password" message... I have swedish keyboard layout...17:33
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wazdacidjazz: no, because you only care when lot's of people die17:34
crashanddie_don't tell me that's a bot17:34
crashanddie_or I'm shooting myself17:34
RST38hwazd: well, they also have to die spectacularly17:34
crashanddie_Orange1: identify yourself17:34
acidjazzdoes it have a sandbox python interpreter we can use in the channel17:35
acidjazzas well17:35
acidjazzmaybe itll shorturl links17:35
acidjazzaka flood w/ meaningless scroll17:35
RST38hwazd: i.e. carpet bombings, tsunamis, earthquakes, nuclear explosions count, hunger and most diseases do not17:35
crashanddie_acidjazz: povbot is the only bot allowed in the channel17:35
RST38hwazd: Most NATO military actions do not count, unless NATO fucks up real bad17:35
acidjazzcrashanddie_: im being sarcastic and agreeing w/ u17:35
crashanddie_oh my bad, misread that17:36
crashanddie_Orange1: ?17:36
Orange1 crashanddie ah?17:36
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DocScrutinizerOrange1: turingtest ;-)17:37
Orange1i'm the organe pest17:37
crashanddieOrange1: say something human17:37
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crashanddieyeah, you're not convincing me mate17:37
threshi'm actually amazed on the quality of n900's photos when there's a sun light17:37
Orange1that's ok?17:37
threshnow, someone needs to make share service support:)17:37
crashanddienot really17:37
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: opinion?17:38
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crashanddiehe did?17:38
eeanthresh: dosn't stop me from bringing my camera when I really want to take some photos. I just wish it was trivial to transfer files between my camera and the phone.17:38
Orange1 crashanddie we, the bots, we are very sofistificat'd day by day17:38
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thresheean: of course.17:38
RST38hpicasa first17:39
threshit's good enough for ocassional photoing.17:39
acidjazzcrashanddie_: lol u realize infobot is hte bot and not Orange1 right17:39
threshscrew picasa, yandex has unlimited storage ;)17:39
adalalhello, how do you get the hciconfig to install on maemo 5?17:39
eeanthe next 'mobile computer' needs a host usb port or we take away nokia's cookies17:39
crashanddieOrange1: you'd be amazed at how sophisticated they get... and considering you haven't been making a lot of sense for more than the contents of one sentence, I remain on the skeptic side of the fence17:39
crashanddieacidjazz: considering I'm the one who voiced povbot...17:40
Orange1 crashanddie the bots wa can get some sex and satisfaktion17:40
Orange1oh i forgot to say, drinks 2!17:40
Orange1not *wa17:40
crashanddiego sleep it off mate17:41
crashanddieyou're making no sense at all... so you must be drunk17:41
RST38hthresh: actually, in something like maemo mapper would be mighty cool17:41
ieatlintalcohol is good17:41
adalaland how do i get my phone's bluetooth to be realised as a phone, and not others :P17:41
Orange1 crashanddie for you dear17:41
DocScrutinizeractually better than ELIZA17:41
Orange1 ieatlint yeah sur!17:41
crashanddie~burn Orange117:42
* infobot pours gasoline all over Orange1, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze17:42
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Orange1~burn crashanddie17:43
* infobot pours gasoline all over crashanddie, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze17:43
dotblankHas anyone fixed the call with skype invalid number bug?17:43
SpeedEvileean: it's not 100% clear that USB host mode can't be enabled. However - it's very much a work in progress. There have been a number of statements from nokia employees, and when chased up all the detailed ones seeme to have flawed reasoning. Plus - the hardware - from what docs are available - does not seem to be configurable in a way to stop host mode working.17:43
DocScrutinizeryay. may I rethink my vote?17:43
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: you can17:44
SpeedEvileean: well - there is save to uSD, and plug it in of course17:44
crashanddieOrange1: what president of the USA was shot in 1963?17:44
Mekfrom what I heard, there is some hard-to-reach pin on some chip to whcich you'd need to solder something to get host mde...17:44
DocScrutinizerOrange1: last chance - or you'll go for the first human too soaked to pass turng17:44
Orange1 crashanddie USA..?? is a new UFO version?17:45
RST38hwhat is gtkparasite?17:45
Orange1Kennedy go to sleep to Mars with crashanddie...17:45
DocScrutinizerk that's probably weird enough17:46
Orange1 DocScrutinizer da ya...?17:46
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Orange1maybe you wanna hear somethin' of Alice Cooper (?)17:46
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Orange1oh shit!!17:47
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crashanddiehe seriously made me doubt17:48
aquatixheh, yeah17:48
DocScrutinizerme too17:48
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DocScrutinizerwell then17:48
aquatixah no, that's just the ircap17:48
RST38hcrashanddit: you forgot +b17:48
crashanddieno, I didn't17:48
DocScrutinizerthose weird andalusians17:48
crashanddie"Robots evolve to learn cooperation, hunting"17:49
crashanddiewhat could go wrong?17:49
eeanSpeedEvil: it shouldn't be a hack, there should be an actual USB plug :)17:49
crashanddieeean: yup, and world hunger shouldn't exist17:49
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eeana phone with host usb is hardly as hard to solve as world hungre...17:50
crashanddiesays you17:50
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ieatlinti agree... eating food is far simpler than making a phone with usb host mode17:51
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crashanddieieatlint: yeah, I don't understand what all the fuss is about... can't they all just go to maccers and have a sandwich every once in a while? I mean come on!17:55
ieatlintwell, not even knowing what maccers is myself... apparently not17:56
crashanddieslang for McDonalds17:56
ieatlintheh, that's not food :P17:56
crashanddieit's a bloody 3 star restaurant to starvers :P17:57
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: still we (OM) managed to get decent hostmode on FR, and I'm sitting here starving ;-P17:59
ieatlintbah, only poor neighbourhoods here even have mcdonalds17:59
ieatlinthah, i thought i recognised your nick ;)17:59
ieatlinttrue indeed, the fr got hostmode working fine... not much else though :P18:00
StskeepsPaulFertser_: around?18:00
ieatlintfirst real gtk app i wrote was laughably slow on it... contained maybe 10 widgets and it took a minute to render...18:00
PaulFertserStskeeps: yep18:01
QuibusOK, I ported a few Debian packages to Maemo... but I don't have a real N900... Is someone willing to test them on a real device?18:02
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SpeedEvileean: hack as in software - it's an external powered hub, and it 'just works'18:05
fralsnice, got my gprs connection up without the phone knowing it, fetching mms while the rest of the phone thinks im on wlan \o/18:08
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DocScrutinizerfetching mms? o.O18:16
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kuriirifrals: nice? :)18:17
kuriirieer -? :D18:17
dotblankanyone know where the phone's contacts are stored?18:17
eeanSpeedEvil: you shouldn't need an external powered hub... my use case is plugging in my camera :)18:18
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SpeedEvilyes, I know.18:18
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Caesiumdotblank: from a quick grep, /home/user/.osso-abook/db/addressbook.db ?18:21
dotblankis there a way to modify the contact list from command line..18:22
dotblankI would like to add a + before all contacts' numbers18:22
dotblankSo I would want to write a script to handle that18:22
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kuriirifrals: so it can also send mms without manually connecting to mms apn?18:23
fralsits what im trying to do atm ;)18:24
fralsor well, i succeeded just not, but it needs a lot of work :p18:24
kuriirigreat... so new version is in the repo in 35mins :)18:25
andresfrals: whether that is wholly nice achievement is another question...18:25
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fralskuriiri: hehe, I wish :P18:25
ieatlintdotblank, a quick look shows it's a berkdb database...18:25
Caesiumdotblank: need to work out what sort of db it is first, maybe perl can open it with NDBM_File or so.18:25
fralsandres: uh?18:26
ieatlintthere is wide support for berkdb.. it also appears to primarily be in ascii with a binary header... it *may* be possible to modify it with sed18:26
andresfragment: Opening a gprs connection without really being noticed...18:26
andreserr, frals: ^18:26
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fralsandres: If you have another way of having two connections active at once, I'm all ears ;)18:27
andresUnfortunately not ;-)18:27
andresI do see your reasoning...18:27
pillaris there some documentation about system dbus signals and slots?18:27
andresieatlint: afair, that wont work18:27
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SpeedEvilfrals: does the kernel contain support for multiplexing so that multiple APNs can be connected to?18:29
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fralsno idea, not tested that yet18:30
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ieatlintandres, sadly you appear to be correct... in scratchbox it does not work18:30
andresieatlint: there are heaps of problems for such a approach: stored lengths, pointers, page borders, page headers...18:32
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ieatlintyeah, was worth a shot though, as it initially appeared that the only thing separating fields was \r\n18:33
Caesiumthere's a bunch of binary between each record18:33
Caesiumprobably each record is just one text blob though18:33
petey2what is the name of the application manager that tells you user scores/popularity etc.. ?18:34
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villagerfrals: oo, you working on two-connections-at-once? what method are you using? someone once mentioned SO_BINDTODEVICE as a possibility for making a socket talk through a particular interface, like a particular apn18:40
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RST38hMhm, users definitely hate Fennec18:45
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AlteregoReally want fullscreen on xchat18:47
derfRST38h: This is surprising?18:47
tank-manyou can move the divider bars18:47
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RST38hderf: Not at all =(18:48
TheBigHeadhello room18:48
RST38hsucks moose balls, hangs the whole system including the lock switch18:48
Alteregooh nice:)18:48
RST38hmost likely by constant swapping18:48
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Alteregois there a short cut to task switcher?18:48
derfYeah, that would certainly do it.18:48
RST38hAlter: Ctrl+BS?18:49
GeneralAntillesAlterego, install shortcutd too.18:49
derfBut the device has 1GB of RAM!18:49
derfUh, I mean, not RAM, "memory", that's the ticket.18:49
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RST38hderf: the device has it through an 8bit data path to an SD card driven by an 8bit embedded controller or something18:49
GeneralAntillesAlterego, makes camera key move to dashboard.18:49
derfRST38h: I'm well aware.18:50
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derfIt was pretty easy to kill an N8x0 by swapping, too.18:50
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derfEven with a small page file.18:50
derfI have no idea why anyone thought 768MB of swap would be at all useful.18:50
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RST38h512MB would probably be enough18:51
RST38hJust not on a device that slow18:51
SpeedEvilderf: it's not useless18:51
SpeedEvilderf: if the swap was properly setup - it'd work well18:51
RST38hGeneral: BTW, do you know if anyone tried moving either swap or /opt to an external memory card?18:52
ssvbderf: to be able to keep a number of *idle* applications loaded in the background?18:52
derf64MB would have been enough.18:52
RST38hThe speed of external/internal card should be pretty much the same but hopefully they have different data pipes18:52
GeneralAntillesRST38h, not that I know of.18:52
GeneralAntillesssvb, ++18:52
derfssvb: Unless you spent several days swapping out those idle applications...18:52
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SpeedEvilspeed of datapipe is close to irrelevant18:54
SpeedEvilunless you do contiguous writes - which  the current swap algo doesn't.18:54
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RST38hSpeedEvil: Well we are getting much lower throughput than those cards are made for18:55
RST38hBoth read and write18:55
Caesiumieatlint: btw, python anydbm seems to open the addressbook ok, I can't get perl to though18:55
RST38hSo, yes, at least in the case of Maemo devices, it matters18:56
Alteregojust read that overclocking thread on tmo ... what a nob.18:56
ssvbSpeedEvil: are you absolutely sure that the current swap algo doesn't do it?18:56
SpeedEvilssvb: as I understand it no.18:57
SpeedEvilssvb: Many of the optimisations for flash are somewhat different to disk18:57
sp3000hmm, are there some useful crash reporter docs18:57
SpeedEvilfor flash - random read is cheap - and random write is horribly expensive18:57
ssvbSpeedEvil: have you compared swap code of N900 kernel with the code from the upstream kernel?18:58
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SpeedEvilA 20M/s device can drop to a few tens of K/s if you ask it to write random 512 blocks18:58
SpeedEvilssvb: no18:58
ssvbok, I see18:58
SpeedEvilssvb: Does it differ?18:58
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ssvbafaik, yes18:59
SpeedEvilif true, that'd be useful for many devices that want to do swap to SD19:00
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AlteregoAnyone tested disk bandwidth.19:02
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zerojayugh... wtf.19:04
zerojayCharging overnight... only 50% battery.. and now suddenly, I can't boot up anymore.19:04
Alteregouh, oh ...19:05
zerojayBrand new N900.19:05
Caesiumcharging from usb or wall socket?19:05
zerojayHad over 50% charge showing... but yet, can't boot.19:06
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CaesiumI find that my laptop can't charge it via usb despite it saying it is, had a lucky escape with that, woke up one morning to it at 20% despite being in all night19:06
GeneralAntilleszerojay, it's your unclean aura. :P19:06
Alteregomy laptop can charge it.19:06
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Caesiumyeah my desktop PC manages fine. maybe it's just low powered usb, it's only a little sony vaio19:07
zerojayIf I try to turn it on... it dies almost as soon as the first set of orbs shows up.19:07
Alteregobut when it's really busy. tends to just keep it at a constant level :)19:07
zerojayAnd now, it says it's charging, but I just see  a dull Nokia logo on the screen... can't power up.19:07
AlteregoI'm happy though, tethering was much nicer with just one cable.19:07
sp3000bug 8679 -- does the currently available stuff not display the calendar view that was last shown when closed?19:08
povbotBug Make calendar default view configurable via calendar settings menu19:08
zerojayFreezing with the second orb highlighted... I gotta reflash now? Seriously? Uggggghhhhh19:08
Caesiumhm, does the n900 charge in usb flashing mode?19:09
Caesiumyou could leave it sat in usb flash mode for a bit maybe if it does.19:09
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ShadowJKit doesn't charge in usb flashing mode I think19:09
bigbrovarhi guys19:09
zerojayAlso, charging shouldn't be an issue anyways since I had half a battery still.19:09
ShadowJKCaesium, was your VAIO switched on or off?19:10
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CaesiumShadowJK: on of course :)19:10
Caesiumthe N900 claimed to be charging19:10
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bigbrovarI hear all the time about people getting like 24 hours batt life out of their n900 with *normal* usage. well the most I ever got out of mine under normal usage is 11 hours19:11
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Alteregoi might cap the cpu to 250 to save power :P19:12
GeneralAntillesbigbrovar, clearly something's sucking down power or your definition of "normal" is off.19:12
GeneralAntillesAlterego, doesn't work like that.19:12
GeneralAntillesRace-to-idle, etc.19:13
bigbrovarGeneralAntilles: well am connected to wifi (70% of the time) 3g is turned off and am using gsm mode. listen to music..19:13
bigbrovarGeneralAntilles: occassional checking the web.. but nothing intensive.. most times the device is in my pocket and am listening to music via the headphone19:14
moo-_-people should just install CPU applet and use top command19:15
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moo-_-if there is an app which has really gone haywire19:15
moo-_-it does not reveal all problems, but at least you see the obvious ones19:15
* sp3000 rather prefers htop19:16
* moo-_- apt-get install htop - didn't know it was available19:17
moo-_-powertop is for more advanced problems and more advanced users19:17
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moo-_-there is nothing powertop cannot resolve19:18
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moo-_-somebody should just write a tutorial how to use CPU applet + htop +  powertop19:18
moo-_-problem solved19:18
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ssvbmoo-_-, even an application which has ~0% cpu load can prevent cpu from sleeping properly, top/htop is not particularly helpful for finding these19:19
moo-_-ssvb: powertop19:20
bigbrovarwhat is the longest batt life anyone as ever gotten from the N900 when on wireless19:20
ssvbmoo-_-, right19:20
moo-_-as long as energy goes to main CPU it should be able to detect it19:21
moo-_-I am not sure whether baseband can suck power indepdendently19:21
* DocScrutinizer51 wonders where his powertop went to. or where to get it19:21
bigbrovarmoo-_-: I have heard some people having issues with batt life on the N900 i dont know if its hardware or software related. but mine can only seem to last 11 hours tops19:22
woglindebigbrovar uh19:22
bigbrovarmoo-_-: and i hear people claiming to get 24 hours from their device for me that has never happened.. even if am only listening to music... the best i get is 12 hours19:23
woglindebigbrovar in offline mode too=19:23
moo-_-bigbrovar: idle device can go two days easily19:23
bigbrovarwoglinde: I havent tried the phone offline. But I could always do that19:23
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moo-_-bigbrovar: listening to music doesn't have battery life beyond 6-8 hours on any device I know19:24
DocScrutinizer51listening music is kinda power hog19:24
bigbrovarwoglinde: moo-_-: I have 3g turned off and am on gsm mode..19:24
villagerlistening to music is always a big battery hog19:24
DocScrutinizer51cpu active all the time to decode and stream (well basically)19:25
moo-_-bigbrovar: try here
bigbrovarmoo-_-: ok am charging it now, once its full. i would switch to offline mode and just put the music player on via the headphone and see how long it lasts19:25
zerojaymmkay... my N900 was charging all night... and still charged, died... even though there was nearly no CPU use and no programs hogging up anything. Awesome.19:25
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moo-_-bigbrovar: in any case it is not N900 problem19:25
moo-_-get ipod19:25
moo-_-try play music19:26
moo-_-see how many hours you get19:26
DocScrutinizer51bigbrovar: why not use it online without music?19:26
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bigbrovarmoo-_-: its worse if i use it online.. 3g and i get just 8 hours.. wireless is 11 hours even without music19:26
DocScrutinizer51zerojay: did it *signal* charging?19:26
zerojayDocScrutinizer51: I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer.19:27
moo-_-bigbrovar: 11 hours surfing?19:27
bigbrovarI have an e72 and the N900 so i can easily compare.. the e72 can go for 24 hours under the same usage as the N900.19:27
moo-_-N900 has bigger screen19:27
DocScrutinizer51zerojay: you're welcome, dude19:27
moo-_-if you use it actively it cannot last as long19:27
bigbrovarmoo-_-: not surfing but just connected to wifi, sometimes chating, and checking emails19:28
moo-_-that's the law of the physics19:28
moo-_-bigbrovar: just leave it on the table, don't touch it, and you get 2 days19:28
zerojayDocScrutinizer51: It's kind of a stupid question to ask, that's all.19:28
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moo-_-bigbrovar: I think your usage patters just consume the battery19:28
bigbrovarmoo-_-: I know am just saying that people say they get 24 hours on the N900 and i have never been close to that on mine19:28
DocScrutinizer51 aha19:28
moo-_-bigbrovar: people are subjective19:28
moo-_-people are also ignorant19:28
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moo-_-and in many case simply not very bright minded19:29
ShadowJKI get about 16 hours, but that's with xchat and about 30 irc channels19:29
moo-_-if you want have something then have real data19:29
moo-_-use powertop19:29
moo-_-record power usage19:29
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bigbrovarmoo-_-: ok .. I will leave it connected to wifi and switch to the e72.. would live it in offline mode and no listen to music..19:29
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ShadowJKMy operator doesn't firewall gprs/3g, and sometimes I get the IP of someone who used edonkey.. then random people from all over the world send random UDP packets to my IP, keeping the modem awake.. :(19:30
woglindehm firefox mobile is out19:30
mtnbkranyone know if htere an an app or addin/plugin to the default media player to scrobble to or other?19:30
* mtnbkr can't believe he just said "scrobble" sigh19:30
villagerbigbrovar: you're not connecting it to skype or anything?19:30
moo-_-bigbrovar: when you can come back with something like "I surfed with screen max brightness using WLAN 4.12 hours on N900 but 5.68 hours on E72" we can simply say that "N900 has bigger screen and about the same size of battery, what did you expect?"19:31
bigbrovarvillager: well skype is always connected19:31
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moo-_-but doing guesswork is just poinstless19:31
mtnbkrbigbrovar: I can get no where near 24 hours on my n900... not even close... :(19:31
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villagerbigbrovar: well, then that could be another battery drain19:32
woglindealways to skype19:32
woglindeno wonder wlan cannt go to sleep19:32
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bigbrovarmoo-_-: if you have been following me, I was trying to compare normal usage. people asked me to define normal usage and that is hard to define.. but I then said i have same usage on my e72 and get 24 hours + batt.. but the n900 only goes 11 hours tops..19:33
villageris your e72 connected to skype?19:33
bigbrovarmoo-_-: am aware its like comparing apples to oranges but I wanted to draw a base line.. I was talking to a friend yesterday and he said he gets over 24 hours, connected to 3g, listening to music, checking mails and occassional surfing the web19:34
ShadowJKE72 doesn't have skype19:34
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bigbrovarmoo-_-: mine would die in 11 hours19:34
ShadowJKSkype on N900 does the full p2p thing, so that should consume huge amounts on 3g :)19:34
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DocScrutinizerskype - uerrrks19:35
bigbrovarShadowJK: nope it doesnt but i always have like 9 apps running in the back ground at a any one time, nokia mail, gravity, mobbler,musicplayer,tasmmanager,and skypelight19:36
ShadowJKThose don't use the network as much as skype19:36
ShadowJKin terms of wakeups19:36
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ShadowJKnokia mail is probably set to only check every 5-15 minutes or something, skype light doesn't have the fancy stuff19:37
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* RST38h installed Firefox Mobile final19:38
* RST38h does not understand how Firefox developers can claim that it works for them =(19:38
ShadowJKit would probably last a bit longer on edge, which doesn't hate wakeups as much as 3g does19:38
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derfMaybe they didn't try using it to visit web pages.19:39
bigbrovarok I was using the N900 and thinking 11 hours batt life was normal till i read this revew.. and this part caught my attention19:39
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bigbrovarI don’t use the device heavily for phone calls but I am always using 3G data for email and other things, playing music and even using the FM transmitter. Despite all this I get well over 24 hours out of one charge. 36 hours is not uncommon.19:39
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zerojayShadowJK: Skype on N900 does NOT do the full p2p thing.19:40
ShadowJKI think a call will use about as much power as leaving "ping" running in a terminal :)19:40
ShadowJKzerojay, oh?19:40
ShadowJKman, someone needs to come up with a nettop that can count wakeups and attribute them to specific processes :)19:40
bigbrovarI mean I have owned this device now for close to 3 months now and I have NEVER gotten close to 24 hrs using the device less that what the reviewer does with his device.. the most I have gotten is 11 hours19:40
derfBut seriously, RST38h I haven't actually tried it. What's so awful about it?19:41
RST38hderf: stalls all the time19:41
bigbrovaranyway i would put the device of offline mode and see how long it lasts19:41
ShadowJKdoes it use some sqlite database?19:41
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RST38hstalls when starting, stalls when closing down, stalls when loading page, stalls when scrolling through the page, stalls when typing , stalls when you try to switch away from it19:42
ShadowJKthis sounds exactly like fennec a year ago?19:42
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derfRST38h: If you go to about:config, what's browser.cache.disk.enable set to?19:42
RST38hwell, it is a little bit faster, but just a little bit, sometimes19:42
RST38hderf: a moment19:43
Alteregoshame there's no keyboard control in the dash board.19:43
* ShadowJK has it enabled in microb19:43
dnaumovbigbrovar: simple tip, recalibrate the battery19:44
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RST38hderf: false19:44
dnaumovbigbrovar: ie. let it run down to 0, as in shut itself off (not until it just starts beeping), then charge to full19:44
bigbrovardnaumov: thanks but how do i do that :)19:44
villagerI used to be able to get something like 24h out of the n900, but after setting up stuff like skype and sip, it doesn't look like I can anymore... but since there's power where I spend most of my days, it doesn't bother me much19:44
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bigbrovardnaumov: ok thanks would try that. :)19:45
derfShadowJK: It may be enabled in microb, but if browser.cache.disk.parent_directory points to a non-existent directory (which it does by default), it's still effectively disabled.19:45
dnaumovI took my N900 out of the charger in the morning and been using it all day, including 3 hours of data usage on a TRAIN (which is hell for mobile devices with constant cell switching), it's at 60% now19:46
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dnaumovand now is 19.4619:46
Alteregoheh, recalibrate your battery..19:46
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Alteregolion's don't like being discharged fully.19:46
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derfRST38h: Well, no idea then. That fully exhausts my knowledge of Fennec.19:48
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ShadowJKAlterego, it shuts off before 3.2V anywy19:48
bigbrovardnaumov: seriously mine doesnt even get that close.19:49
DocScrutinizer51Alterego: that's why the system shuts down before bat is really empty19:49
bigbrovardnaumov: i had to disable 3g all together to get a better batt life19:49
timeless_mbpcan someone help me?19:50
timeless_mbpi'm trying to find a web site :)19:50
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DocScrutinizer51Alterego: actually storing LiIon without charge (or keep on full charge) is much worse than discharging it19:50
RST38hAnd if you strike it with a nail, that would be much much much worse19:51
* ShadowJK probably wouldn't run n900 until it shuts off by itself anyway19:51
kpeltimeless: sure, which site?19:51
RST38h(and way more impressive than just storing it uncharged)19:51
villagertimeless_mbp: I have a site:
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timeless_mbpvillager: i need to find a specific site19:51
* timeless_mbp takes kpel up on his offer19:52
villagertimeless_mbp: well why don't you say it19:52
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villagermaybe I've seen it, or someone else here has19:53
timeless_mbpvillager: yeah, if kpel can't find it, i'll ask for someone else to help19:54
villagerso it's kind of a secret site? allright19:54
kpelyou need to know the secret handshake19:56
timeless_mbpnah, just too embarrassing19:56
timeless_mbpsometimes it's much better for only one person to see me make a mistake :)19:57
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lcuktimeless, life.19:57
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* RST38h moos at lcuk slightly20:00
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* lcuk wonders if RST38h is ill20:01
lcukyou have never mood so quietly20:01
viggiIs it possible to connect to the internet via USB so that I could use the app manager, browser etc?20:01
viggion the n900*20:02
Stskeepsdummy connection and usbnet20:02
RST38hlcuk: not ill pacified20:02
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slonopotamusfirefox mobile == fennec?20:03
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lcukRST38h, bah im just completely worn out20:03
lcukslonopotamus, yes afaik20:03
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RST38hslono: yes20:03
viggiI guess i'll google around a bit then20:04
RST38hlcuk: same here20:04
lcukRST38h, what have you been workin on?20:05
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RST38hlcuk: money.20:06
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RST38hlcuk: haven't done a thing on my own projects (maemo-related or otherwise) in weeks20:07
lcuki know the feeling, ive been too tired to do anything substantial20:08
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Aquarinahi, does maemo have support for ext3?20:13
luke-jrbut it's not a good idea20:14
luke-jrext3 is designed for magnetic disks, which I don't think can be connected to NITs :)20:14
Aquarinamount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /media/mer failed20:14
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luke-jrAquarina: you probably need to insmod stuff20:15
luke-jror modprobe if M5 actually supports that20:15
AquarinaI installed mer on a second partition on internal...20:15
Aquarinaah ok20:15
Aquarinainsmod ext2?20:15
luke-jrinsmod requires a full path20:16
luke-jrbut seriously, yeah, use ext2 :)20:16
luke-jrext2 is better than ext3 on a SD card20:16
Aquarinawhere are the modles?20:16
luke-jrI think20:17
luke-jrbefore my initfs got screwed up, I had Gentoo make the files needed for modprobe <.<20:18
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luke-jrAquarina: /lib/modules20:20
luke-jr -.-20:20
Aquarinathey're not there20:20
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luke-jrshould be20:20
ShadowJKon N8x0 /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/20:21
luke-jrShadowJK: even on N8x0, /lib/modules has symlinks20:21
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Aquarinahum... ok20:22
ShadowJKoh it's there too20:22
Aquarinainsmod: cannot insert 'ext2.ko': Unknown symbol in module (-1): No such file or directory20:23
luke-jrAquarina: insmod also doesn't resolve dependencies :)20:23
luke-jrI think ext2's sole dep is 'mbcache'20:23
Aquarinaah ok20:23
Aquarinatry that...20:23
Aquarinamodprobe: cannot parse modules.dep X-(20:24
ShadowJKuse insmod then20:24
luke-jror if you by some miracle have it, depmod -a :)20:24
Aquarinamount /dev/mmcblk0p2 mer/ -t ext220:25
Aquarinamount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on mer/ failed20:25
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Aquarinaok, mounted mer20:27
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Aquarinanow... how do I disable automatic login on maemo? It must be the same in mer...20:27
Aquarinaluke-jr, tks20:27
luke-jrMaemo supports multi-user?20:28
Stskeepsnot really20:28
petey2erm ... Does the facebook widget mobile upload not work? It says processing but nothing appears on facebook. Neither videos or pics...20:28
AquarinaI tryed to usermod user20:29
Aquarinachange it's name20:30
Aquarinaand maemo wouldn't start20:30
Aquarinareboot loop20:30
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AquarinaI'd like to try to save my maemo install20:31
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AquarinaI ruined it by installing gdm20:32
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Aquarinacan I chrout inside maemo?... let's try...20:33
petey2is it possible to save what apps one has so that things are reinstalled after a flash?20:33
lcukpetey2, use the backup tool20:33
lcukit backs up repositories and list of installed apps20:33
lcukas well as data from those apps20:34
lcukmuch more sensible20:34
petey2lcuk nice 1 ! is it preinstalled?20:34
lcukof course20:34
luke-jrlcuk: unless the repository has removed the apps <.<20:34
lcukluke-jr, extras respoitory is stable and the contents will outlast you20:35
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lcukand of course, if you are installing apps from unstable temporary repository thats your tough shit20:35
petey2This phone is pure awesomeness. Its like eating a pizza when you've been starving for 2 days. Its fantastic. I love it.20:35
AquarinaI think I managed to uninstall gdm20:36
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Aquarinanow... what do I need to install on maemo to have the boot menu back?20:36
petey2where is the backup stored and does the backup remain on the device after a flash?20:36
Aquarinato be able to boot mer20:36
lcukpetey2, the backup is stored on the MyDocs EMMC partition which persists a normal reflash20:37
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lcukif you manually download and reflash the eMMC it will be vaped20:37
lcukbut thats not the normal routine20:37
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AquarinaStskeeps, why do you say it's not a multiuer capable system?20:38
Stskeepsmaemo isn't, it's designed as a single user one20:38
Aquarinaok, but...20:38
luke-jrAquarina: for example, the name 'user' is hardcoded in various places20:39
Aquarinathat's what i discovered when I changed it to my normal username20:39
Aquarinawhat about mer?20:39
Stskeepsit is designed to be one but we might revert for compatibility's sake20:39
Aquarinawill I be able to user mer with multiple users?20:39
AquarinaI'd realy would like it to be more multiuser20:40
* Wizzup wonders if firefox is in the repos now20:40
Aquarinawell... back from dreams 4 a moment...20:41
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Aquarinahow do I clone maemo to an sd card so I can play with it?20:41
AquarinaI'd like to be able to install mer from that second maemo install20:42
Aquarinaso the first one could be as default and simple as possible20:42
lcukAquarina, the mer installation instructions get it onto your device20:42
lcuknot sure how to clone maemo itself yet20:43
lcukif no1 has yet, it would be an interesting thing to dig into and document20:43
Aquarinalcuk, I know... but I would have to install a bunch of other stuff on maemo just to put mer on the divice20:43
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AquarinaI'd rather do it from another test environment20:43
lcuki thought the footprint required to do dualboot was eextremely minimal and non invasive20:45
lcuktheres even a low level entry point on normal maemo bootup20:45
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Aquarinaanother thing: how do I get xhost on the device?20:46
Aquarinawhat .deb is it in?20:46
AquarinaI can't seem to find it!!!20:47
lcukwhats xhost20:47
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lcukand what package is it included in for other platforms20:47
Aquarinato allow me to X forward20:47
Aquarinait's on xauth, I think!..20:47
Aquarinalemme check20:47
lcukxforwarding? i thought that was normal20:48
lcukand built in?20:48
lcukim sure ive seen that done20:48
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lcukor am i mixing my metaphors20:48
Aquarinax11-xserver-utils: /usr/bin/xhost20:48
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DocScrutinizer51how would I possibly view the call history during a call?20:49
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plastun'Mnemosyne for Maemo' is available from Diablo-extras repository!21:20
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chxhi. do we have rumours of what to expect at Mobile World Congress 2010 ? Nothing ? Small upgrade to N900? Announcement of the "next step", the mainstream phone?21:37
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chxalso do we know how joikuspot works on the N900 given ?21:37
povbotBug 6097: add support for master mode21:37
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peturgood evening... my brand new n900 is driving me up the walls with a sound notification twice every hour (:25 and :55), the sound being that of an empty battery (3 descending tones). Battery is full and it even does this while on the charger. No alarms programmed. Any ideas?21:58
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eeanpetur: no other notifications/21:59
eeaneg email21:59
peturand it is very regular, every :25 and :5521:59
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Zoupguess its top question of FAQ, but any idea how can i upgrade my flash player on n900 to version 10?22:01
slonopotamusZoup, no wai22:01
Zoupslonopotamus: and it will never be possible in future?22:01
slonopotamusZoup, i'd bet no.22:02
Zoupslonopotamus: thanks pal, flash performance sucks on my n900, its like 1 frame per second :))22:02
slonopotamusZoup, it plays youtube. why else you need flash?22:03
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Zoupslonopotamus: other website, sport websites for example, they do have 3-4 flash file per page and it seems that flash block is not working as well :(22:04
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Nitialadobe has already demoed flash 10.1 on n90022:04
Nitialsome months ago22:04
ZoupNitial: hum, so there wil be a chance for that?22:05
NitialI would say so22:05
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Zoupanyone get flashblock working on n900?22:05
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* petur reboots his n900 to see if that stops the damn notifications22:07
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slonopotamusmacromedia/adobe has totally uncomprehencible policy of keeping flash closed, leading to bad coverage of devices.22:08
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[Tycho]Go, Silverlight :)22:09
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slonopotamus[Tycho], ...22:09
slonopotamus[Tycho], ms policy is the same.22:10
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doc|homeslonopotamus: not entirely incomprehensible. They make money selling a flash creation tool.22:12
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slonopotamusdoc|home, so why they don't want player to be on as many platforms as possible?22:13
doc|homeslonopotamus: because if they explained how the format worked fully it would be easier to create a creation tool22:13
AlteregoI'm reading the tmo thread about no m6 support for N900 and lack of enhancements & fixes for fremantle. Pretty funny.22:14
AlteregoI should just ask them to donate their devices to me ....22:14
Ken-YoungAlterego, What's m6 ?22:14
Ken-YoungMaemo 6?22:14
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Ken-YoungIt is difficult to understand Nokia's strategy.22:15
doc|homethey have one?22:16
AlteregoI'm positive all major bugs and a few enhancements will all be available to N900 users. I can't understand why people think they should get more than that...22:17
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GeneralAntillesAlterego, because that's where the competition is now.22:20
GeneralAntillesAlterego, g1 iPhones are still supported by the latest iPhone OS release.22:20
AlteregoAnyway, I keep getting this inkling that part of the development plan is to put m6 alpha images on developers N900's22:20
w00tGeneralAntilles: did you read Stskeeps' replies on there?22:20
AlteregoErm, G1 isn't22:20
slonopotamusmy skype can't connect for a day now. is it normal?22:21
AlteregoiPhone is somewhat limited really.22:21
Zouphey guys, how can i restart browser?! do i have to restart device?22:21
slonopotamuson n90022:21
mtnbkrAlterego: and full of DRM badness and iTunes/Apple lock-in22:21
w00tZoup: erm.. I don't understand22:21
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Zoupw00t: i have installed some addone on microb, it asking for restart, ill click on restart and nothing happens22:22
GeneralAntillesw00t, yes.22:22
w00tI think microb is bad with addons, frankly. but I haven't had time to research that..22:22
Ken-YoungJust think of how much more successful the iPhone would be if each model's owners were separated into their onw little OS ghetto.22:22
w00tI've had all sorts of funky problems trying to get them to work..22:22
mtnbkrI can not for the life of me understand wy Apple won't just plot the ogg-vorbis libraries on their ipds and iPhones22:22
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w00tGeneralAntilles: really: I don't think it's worth worrying more about until an official position is made public22:23
w00tGeneralAntilles: worries have been made very vocal and clear, I think :P22:23
infobotKen-Young meant: Just think of how much more successful the iPhone would be if each model's owners were separated into their own little OS ghetto.22:23
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GeneralAntillesw00t, the official position _I_ heard was that it wasn't coming due to capacitive BS.22:24
w00tGeneralAntilles: I've heard _rumours_ of that, too, but I've never seen it on paper in front of me, and really, until I see that, I'll continue to disbelieve it22:25
GeneralAntillesw00t, I was sitting in the room. :)22:25
w00tbecause it doesn't make sense, frankly22:25
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GeneralAntillesw00t, I agree, which I why I regret boing the jerk off the stage.22:26
w00tso either it was a mistake, or they were pitching BS as a ploy to see what the reaction would be towards not having m6 compatibility22:26
w00tbut if that is really the case, then well, there's going to be upset people, yeah - and I think they realise that now22:27
* GeneralAntilles did do some quiet snorting.22:27
w00tI'd have been rather more vocal than that, yeah :P22:27
GeneralAntillesw00t, well, the talk was in Spanish, hard to object in English 5 seconds after it was said. ;)22:28
w00tGeneralAntilles: nah, just throw things at them and scream "you iPhone loving bastard"22:28
w00tI'm sure he'll get the point22:28
GeneralAntillesw00t, hehe.22:28
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w00twhen was the m6 device (tentatively) announced for anyway? 2010?22:29
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GeneralAntillesSo, Christmas.22:29
w00tjoy, I get another christmas of financial disaster to look forward to22:29
GeneralAntillesw00t, bump your karma and whore for a proto or a discount.22:29
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w00tI don't whore. I do need to be rather more active than I am, though22:29
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w00tI have plans on that front that I am working towards, thankfully22:30
w00ttoday was going to be some more work towards that, but alas, I'm so hungover from yesterday that I am frankly nonfunctional for anything except idle chatter22:30
* w00t swears to never ever drink again22:31
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meceW00t, never say never :)22:31
RevdKathyYou need to add a 'till tomorrow' to that statement, w00t22:31
w00tRevdKathy: yeah, I know it'll happen22:31
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w00tthis is just what I say after every bad episode22:31
w00tand bad it has been22:31
w00t4 hours of sleep, plus a 2 hour nap at 5pm this afternoon22:32
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RevdKathyoh dear - all night bender?22:32
w00tnah.. I just drank far too much redbull with the vodka22:32
w00tbig big big mistake22:32
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RevdKathyouchies! one to put yo to sleep, and one to keep ou awake. The mix screws up the system22:32
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w00thi btw, how's sheep going ;)22:33
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RevdKathyred bull = breakfast, vodka = supper22:33
RevdKathySheep are BRILLIANT!22:33
mecehey, if i create a directory called .bleh/ in MyDocs, will the tracker index that, or will it be "hidden" from it?22:33
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RevdKathynow in extras-devel22:33
sheepbatyes, we are22:33
* w00t blinks22:33
w00tthat was unexpected :P22:33
JaffaX-Fade: ping22:33
meceRevdKathy, cool!22:33
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mecebaa indeed.22:34
RevdKathyBaaa back, shhepbat22:34
RevdKathyseriously, it's a really nice game22:34
RevdKathyHopebeat has done a bang up dob22:34
RevdKathyblast - ginger wine has gone straight to my finger tips!22:34
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Jaffalcuk: Launch MWKN issue is shaping up for Monday, BTW :-)22:35
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RevdKathythat's good news, Jaffa. I'm looking forward to that22:36
RevdKathycan we get a shout in it for the Sheep project22:36
RevdKathypretty please22:36
JaffaRevdKathy: Sure, URL?22:36
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RevdKathythe whole thread is here:
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RevdKathytodays important news about it being in extras-devel is here
JaffaRevdKathy: That doesn't say where to get it, or have a screenshot :-/22:37
JaffaRevdKathy: Ah, perfect.22:37
RevdKathyit really is an exemplar of the community at work collaboratively22:37
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RevdKathyabout three artists, a dev, a sheep-impressionist, a bunch of ideas, encouragers and a demented teddy bear make a powerful team!22:38
JaffaRevdKathy: Thank's for the quote :)22:39
infobotJaffa meant: RevdKathy: Thank for the quote :)22:39
RevdKathyI gotcha. My fingers are very 'Saturday night' tonight, Jaffa. The ginger wine went right to my typing22:39
Hoxzeris there a way to add more on screen buttons to x terminal?22:39
* Jaffa needs to wait for mgedmin's IRC log to update22:40
mgedmincron job every 5 minutes22:40
Jaffamgedmin: Ta22:40
mat0nghi everybody, i'm trying to use the function hildon_gtk_hscale_new() in python, but it seems as if it's not available..
mgedminor strip the '.html' suffix from URL and see the raw log in realtime22:40
mat0nghas anybody used it?22:40
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KhertanHi !22:41
KhertanIf i want to sell an app on ovi store22:41
RevdKathyHi back, Hhertan22:41
JaffaRevdKathy: Submitted it into the MWKN content (i.e. Twitter) feed - it'll show up at and then that gets fleshed out into the issue tomorrow night.22:42
Khertanis there any documentation information somewhere ?22:42
RevdKathythanks Jaffa. I want the team to get as much credit as possible - they've been brilliant22:42
meceKhertan, start here: I suppose22:43
Khertanoh thx22:43
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CabletwitchAha, there we go.22:44
CabletwitchAlright peeps, hows it going?22:44
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Khertan50$ entry right22:45
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JaffaAnyone know if there's an API for retrieving user access from username, apart from screenscraping?22:47
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Clavicepssportsdrink of the NFL22:51
Clavicepssportsdrink of the UFC22:51
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Clavicepssportsdrink of the NBA22:51
RevdKathyWe can Haz a spammer22:52
threshwhat an ass hole22:52
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Ken-YoungBut, but, but - I came here to hear about Sportsdrinks!22:52
CabletwitchWhy do people even try doing that anymore?22:53
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meceKhertan, have you got a minute extra? I have some questions regarding packaging py, and I understand you have some skills :)22:57
TomaszDCabletwitch, I've no idea but I suddenly got the urge to drink a poweraid, whatever that is22:57
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CabletwitchHeh, theres always one who falls for it, I guess.22:58
TomaszDthese ads get more and more sophisticated man, that one was almost like NLP22:59
CabletwitchSo yes, I thought I'd come and see what the IRC channel was about. New user here, N900. Never used any linux based system to date.23:00
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TomaszDCabletwitch, so, how do you like it so far?23:03
CabletwitchWell, it all works with considerably less buggering about than I expected.23:03
doc|homethat's not even how you spell powerade23:04
TomaszDahh, I knew I heard the name somewhere!23:04
CabletwitchMy experience of linux in the past has been largely watching others screwing about in command lines, and the brown mess that is ubuntu.23:04
sp3000well it is the misspelled beverages channel23:05
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doc|homeCabletwitch: that's why people value real experience23:05
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CabletwitchI'm still not the kind of person to run linux as a main system, as I'm primarily a gamer. I got the N900 because its A) Not an iPhone and B) The reviews were very good.23:07
mat0ngmy personal favorite comment of people watching you work in a shell: "why are you still working in that crappy DOS system?" :P23:07
TomaszDCabletwitch, I encourage you not to go to the terminal unless you really know what you're doing. Other than that, have fun. And that brown mess, while considered not cool by the nerds, is actually quite good.23:07
CabletwitchBut, I'm here to learn things, and possibly throw a few ideas about too.23:08
CabletwitchI dont doubt it. I like the silver-blue mess that is XP though.23:08
* Cabletwitch has had the preachers try to 'convert' him a few too m"y times... XD23:09
* RevdKathy promises never to try to conver anyone to anything other than maemo23:09
wolf^mat0ng, for extra points do "export PS1='C:\> '23:09
mtnbkrwolf^: lol23:10
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CabletwitchStill, I'm here to get to grips with maemo.23:11
* mtnbkr has a client who STILL uses DOS workstations connected to a novell server (server is virtual in VMWare ESX of course) but seriously... DOS in 2010... 23:11
mat0ngthe accelerometer can measure the angle the device is in right?23:11
SpeedEvilmat0ng: sort-of.23:12
n1c0anyone know how to install skype on n900 ?23:12
Paveln1c0: It comes with Skype.23:13
mtnbkrn1c0: it's BUILT-IN ;)23:13
CabletwitchOk, simple question. Is there any way to get the date displayed in the clock area?23:13
RevdKathyskype is preinstalled, just confiugre it n1co23:13
n1c0i ve not it23:13
SpeedEvilmat0ng: for a stationary device, neglecting gain and bias issues,they can measure the orientation. For a moving n900 - measuring the orientation more than approximately is hard23:13
n1c0i buy it with phone abonement23:13
SpeedEvilCabletwitch: don't think so.23:13
inzPS1="C:\$(pwd|tr '/' '\\\\\')> "23:13
CabletwitchIts driving me mad, yet I cant find any option to do this.23:13
mat0ngthe n900 has a stand you can flip out so you can watch movies etc. what if... you would monitor if it is in the angle you get when you put in on the stand and then after a few seconds to start the media player23:13
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SpeedEvilCabletwitch: there are I think widgets to put it on the desktop23:13
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mtnbkrinz: heh   yeah, almost forgot dumb-dows back-slashes.23:13
TomaszDCabletwitch, no, there is no option for this. There might be a widget, not sure.23:14
SpeedEvilmat0ng: hmm.23:14
SpeedEvilmat0ng: not an insane idea.23:14
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n1c0cool nice integration23:14
mat0ngmaybe too much of a battery hog if you write a service for it though23:14
n1c0im a bit scary a fuccking isp has remove it23:15
n1c0but no pb :!23:15
gomiamerm... quick oldie question: is it possible to use N800 as a bluetooth audio device for a mobile?23:15
Tobais the GPS on the n900 better than the n810 GPS?23:15
gomiamI'm asking St. Google but I get nowhere :)23:16
TobaI don't want to buy another tablet with "gps" that doesn't work well23:16
CabletwitchSpeedEvil: Ahh. Ok. its just a pain to have to call the menu associated with that bar to see the date.23:16
SpeedEvilToba: there are open bugs witht he GPS.23:16
SpeedEvilToba: but - IME - it works very well.23:16
Tobawhere do you live23:16
SpeedEvilToba: and the bugs all are being worked on.23:16
Tobaand what's the cold acquire time like?23:16
SpeedEvilToba: apparantly, in the middle of the atlantic.23:16
Tobahow does "IME it works very well" jive with that23:16
SpeedEvilToba: It depends - with or without network assist.23:17
CabletwitchIts A-GPS, isnt it?23:17
SpeedEvilCabletwitch: yes23:17
Tobathe n810 supposedly has agps too23:17
Tobaand it works horribly for me23:17
Tobaalmost never acquires anything23:17
Tobaworse than no gps23:17
SpeedEvilToba: ok - checking - I last used the GPS a couple of days ago. Going to door23:17
Tobathanks for checking :D23:17
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gomiamSpeedEvil: at least you don't live mid-South Pacific (R'lyeh anyone? ;)23:18
SpeedEvilTill I get a GPS fix - 8s23:18
SpeedEviltill it gets within 50m - 10s23:19
SpeedEvilthat's about typical.23:19
CabletwitchThe one thing I dont like with the N900 is the battery life when using GSM connections.23:19
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SpeedEvilIf you haven't been using GPS in a while - a day? And you have no internet or GSM connection - it can take a lot longer.23:20
SpeedEvilThat's in process of being fixed.23:20
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povbotBug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view23:20
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CabletwitchI do like the wifi in this, it seems so much better at maintaining wifi links than my old E7023:21
luke-jrSpeedEvil: you mean there's a bugreport23:22
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luke-jrN8x0's GPS problems had bugs, but never got fixed23:22
janszoonSo with the option "Share with service" there is a compression going on for photos and videos. Why can't this also be applied to emails? I know I can do it manually but....seems the function is already there for services...?23:22
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CabletwitchAll in all, its a rather lovely OS.23:22
SpeedEvilluke-jr: well - yes.23:22
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: I mean - internal alias - someone not unimportant to the problem seeming to be interested - ...23:23
SpeedEvilluke-jr: at least some internal links - see location-test-gui23:23
CabletwitchI wonder... could the screen on the 900 support multi-touch?23:24
CabletwitchNot that I can think of a use for it, tbh23:24
SpeedEvilWell - in principle you can swap the screen for one that does.23:24
* timeless_mbp grumbles23:24
* timeless_mbp needs to rewrite history23:24
rangeCareful with that.23:25
SpeedEvilthe screen neitehr supports or does not support multitouch - the digitiser does that - and can be swapped. (at authorised repair centres)23:25
CabletwitchNah, I'm happy with this screen.23:25
SpeedEvilBut - there is no replacement part.23:25
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hcarrega_anyone using pidgin plugin for facebook chat?23:27
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DocScrutinizerhum, UMTS really sucks battcharge so there's definitely no tomorrow - at least with SIP and IRC (8 chan)23:31
SpeedEvillocking it on GSM can help23:31
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CabletwitchNokia need to hurry up and make a hi-cap battery :O)23:32
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: eventually will try that. Got the nice GSM/UMTS/DUAL systray selector applet23:32
gomiamhcarrega: I think I have Facebook set up23:32
hcarregai put the login23:33
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hcarregaand try to sign23:33
hcarregabut nothing23:33
gomiamoh, let me try and start it23:33
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CabletwitchI'd love it if xchat used the auto-capitals present in the OS.23:34
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gomiamouch, I don't have the Facebook extension installed at this n80023:35
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gomiamhold on...23:35
b-man|N900v/me is mnot soo keen of auto-capitals xD23:35
SpeedEvilIt would be nice as an option.23:35
* b-man|N900 is still getting use to the kb xD23:35
SpeedEvilWhat would be lots cooler would be a corrector23:36
* DocScrutinizer still refuses to get used to the crippled German kbd23:36
SpeedEvilfor example - if you see ecsmple - correct it to example.23:36
CabletwitchAuto-caps at the start of a sentence is nice to have.23:36
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: rasters predictive kbd ;-P23:37
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SpeedEvilthat sort of thing23:37
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: though had to learn to cope with leftots and douublettes23:37
Cabletwitchecsmple looks like a cli command...23:38
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DocScrutinizerCabletwitch: it is :-P23:38
PavelHello. I am trying to figure out GnuPG on Maemo 5 (on the N900), could someone who doesn't use gpg please tell me whether their phone has a directory /home/user/.gnupg owned by root? (I am trying to figure out whether it comes like that, or whether I created it by accident.)23:39
CabletwitchThere we go then.23:39
DocScrutinizerprints "sh: ecsmple: not found"23:39
* b-man|N900 is gonna have an intresting experience trying to get ubuntu-nxx0 running on the N90023:39
CaesiumPavel: yes, mine does, and never used gpg23:40
gomiamhcarrega: I'll be back in a bit ;)23:40
PavelCaesium: And it's owned by root?23:40
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Caesiumyes, one file in it, trustdb.gpg23:40
PavelOK, so it's not something I screwed up.23:40
hcarregai going out to cinema23:40
hcarregamsg me23:40
Stskeepsb-man|N900: you're going to learn it the hard way this time23:40
Stskeepsb-man|N900: :P23:40
PavelCaesium: Thank you very much.23:40
Caesiumno probs23:40
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b-man|N900Stskeeps: i take that as a challenge :)23:41
PavelDoes anyone know whether there is a reference to the N900 filesystem layout?23:41
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* b-man|N900 likes pushing the limit xD23:42
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* Pavel is trying to figure out what it's there for, and why it's not in /root .23:42
* Pavel should probably ask in -devel.23:43
Stskeepsb-man|N900: also, you don't get to use mer's solution for things until you figure it out yourself ;)23:43
* Cabletwitch ponders whether a tv remote app would be worthwhile...23:43
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dnaumovanyone tried the new firefox mobile 1.0 yet? how does it compare to stock n900 browser?23:43
CaesiumCabletwitch: is the IR strong enough?23:43
SpeedEvilCabletwitch: irreco23:43
SpeedEvildnaumov: it crashes too much.23:43
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johnsqSpeedEvil: no ir23:43
CabletwitchNo idea.23:43
SpeedEvildnaumov: and uses too much RAM as yet23:44
CabletwitchThe N900 does have IR, I belive?23:44
SpeedEviljohns: irreco is the app in the repo to do IR control23:44
SpeedEvilIf I remember the name right23:44
johnsqSpeedEvil: the last time i checked did't send ir with the n81023:45
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: correct23:45
johnsqI have build a IR adapter for the Headphones.23:45
DocScrutinizermax distance is somewhat... limited though23:46
gomiamhcarrega: Ok, Facebook plugin installed, setting it up23:46
hcarregaim here23:46
DocScrutinizerjohnsq: N810 has no IR though23:46
CabletwitchI forget, does the 900 have that A2whateveritis for bluetooth audio?23:46
johnsqDocScrutinizer: yes, but i have build a IR adapter for the headphone jack23:47
TomaszDit's just a bluetooth profile, yes, it does have it.23:47
johnsqDocScrutinizer: the application with nice gui was missing.23:47
CabletwitchI thought it had to have hardware support, no?23:47
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cehtehis there a tv-b-gone app for the n900 available finally?23:47
hcarregagomiam:  im checking the talk.maemo to23:48
RST38hmtnbkr: have you tried using it?23:48
TomaszDCabletwitch, not really, you just need Bluetooth 1.2+ compliant hardware (radio)23:48
nedkocan i access music on my file server (smb) without UPnP?23:48
cehtehfennec on n810 .. i wonder how that performs23:48
mtnbkrRST38h: no, but I think I saw your complaints about it a little while ago.23:48
gomiamhcarrega: ok :)23:48
RST38hmtnbkr: Ah, then by all means do :)23:48
CabletwitchTomaszD: ahh, righto.23:48
mtnbkrA buddy (who is JEALOUS of my N900)  just sent me that link :)23:48
nedkocan i access music on my file server (smb) without UPnP? (i'm on n900)23:48
TomaszDCabletwitch, and the radio on the n900 is 2.1, so it supports things like SSP23:49
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mtnbkrRST38h: what's the fastest way? Is it in extras, OVI store? (have not read article yet)23:49
SonicSpinnerhows everyone on this fine n900 nite :;D23:49
hcarregagomiam:  can u login?23:49
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* mtnbkr is good!23:50
hcarregaeven i cant install now the facebook app in repo23:50
johnsqmmm docmentation of irreco still miss understanding.23:50
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SonicSpinnerhas i ask for some help?23:51
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gomiamhcarrega: XD I had forgotten my password, setting it up...23:51
mecenedko, no samba mounting out of the box. Dunno if there's something in extras-devel23:52
CabletwitchRight, gonna conserve battery, catch you guys later.23:52
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meceSonicSpinner, what's up?23:52
jebbahey, i'm trying to make a SIP call to a landline via my SIP provider. I'm all logged in ok, and I checked "Use for telephone numbers" in the SIP account. All looks ok there. But when i go to actually make a call I dont see where it allows me to chose to dial with my SIP account instead of calling via GSM.23:52
gomiamhcarrega: could not retrieve buddy list23:52
Stskeepsjebba: choose account for it, there's a button?23:52
SonicSpinnermece> my question is regarding to the tracker config. i have posted a thread in multimedia about how to separate "movies !" from mixing it up with my recorded videos. any suggestions?23:53
nedkomece: thanks23:53
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SonicSpinnerjebba>> there is a top bar in the dial pad where u can click , then change from GSM to SIP23:54
jebbaStskeeps: no button comes up though. I thought I had seen it a month ago or so (but didn't really use it), but now nothing comes up with it.23:54
Stskeepsjebba: hmm. sec23:54
nedkomece: i dont know UPnP, if I install UPnP stuff on my file server, will i still need smb access?23:54
nedkomece: in order to play the music there23:54
jebbaah ya, in the dial pad. If I select a contact to call, it doesn't off it though.23:54
Stskeepsjebba: "Call type"23:54
meceSonicSpinner, unfortunately I've only opened the config gile once, so I'm not exactly an expert. How do you mean separate?23:54
Stskeepsjebba: it doesn't say "Call with SIP"?23:54
mecenedko, haven't tried it, but you don't need samba for upnp. It just shows up in media player.23:55
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Stskeepsjebba: if not, submit a bug23:55
gomiamhcarrega: Can't connect because I can't get the buddy list23:55
jebbaStskeeps: when i bring up dial pad, I can select "Call type" and options are "Celluar" my gmail acct and my SIP account. But not there when doing contacts.23:55
nedkomece: do you know what software i have to use on my server?23:55
Stskeepsjebba: not when clicking a contact? interesting23:55
SonicSpinnermece> well i have copied 1 season of friends, and 1 season of chaplle show to my n900. i have created a tvshow folder. there are 2 folders in it with each tv show names. so in total 40 avi files. when i go to media player and choose video,. all the tv shows and my own recorded vids  comes up in big mess.23:55
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mecehmmhmm.. there was a thread about that... lemme see.23:55
Stskeepsjebba: since there's 'use for telephone numbers', it not showing up can only be a bug23:56
jebbabut i thought  i *had* seen it in contacts.  I just added it, perhaps a reboot (restart fone app) will re-read it in.23:56
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jebbai'll reboot the thing to see if it comes up. Maybe it doesnt get updated dynamically.23:56
SonicSpinnerjebba: > remember also u can add " sip detail " to a contact. then u can place sip calls  directly from a contact23:56
jebbaSonicSpinner: ya, thx.23:57
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meceSonicSpinner, For browsing through media player, you're screwed, since there are no categories for videos, however there's a way you could do it though...23:58
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SonicSpinnermece> yea i figured., there is also Sort video after category. there i get " recorded with device " + Films.23:58
SonicSpinneri wonder where u define those category. or maybe its hardcoded'23:58
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meceSonicSpinner, simply disallow tracker to track the directory with the tv series. that way they wont show up in the media player listing, but you can launch them from file manager.23:59
SonicSpinnermece> do u understand what the .foldername mean? with a dot., if i create a .tvshow folder.23:59
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