| ptl | new device? already? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ptl | n900 is barely out | 00:00 |
| cehteh | i900 :) | 00:00 |
| Matthew- | facebook's retarded. | 00:00 |
| anpr | i don't think they would bother theyselves to upgrade n900 | 00:00 |
| pusling | ptl: nah. I wouldn't expect it on this side of summer. probably not before christmas | 00:00 |
| anpr | for maemo 6 | 00:00 |
| anpr | why should they ? | 00:00 |
| anpr | DocScrutinizer any dates mentioned ? | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just had a glance to it | 00:01 |
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| pwnguin | ptl: i wouldnt be surprised. they've announced maemo6 in 2010, and there's some hardware things to fix like USB OTG | 00:02 |
| ptl | there's garmin for n900 already, isn't it? | 00:02 |
| pwnguin | ptl: that would be news | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nokia has announced plans to release a new version of Ovi | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Maps for its smartphones that includes free walk and drive | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | navigation worldwide. | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | << | 00:02 |
| lbt | jebba: correct - I just verified I could login at this point | 00:03 |
| anpr | DocScrutinizer they have already released it :) | 00:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 00:03 |
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| lbt | I'm kinda busy for a week or so then I should have time to *do* things | 00:03 |
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| lbt | jebba: although I'm around for questions+discussion | 00:03 |
| jebba | Stskeeps: OBS looks pretty rockin' to me. No comparision with scratchbox+sdk | 00:04 |
| jebba | +sbdmock rather | 00:04 |
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| jebba | i'm not sure a OBS install is needed or not. Stskeeps does opensuse's keep up with the demand? Would mer need its own OBS for any reason? | 00:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anpr: http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/forum-nokia-web-developer-alert/2010/01/21/new-ovi-maps-with-free-walk-and-drive-navigation-offers-clear-path-to-opportunity-for-developers?cp=0110A&entry=OviMapsvidarticle1 | 00:05 |
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| ptl | Sygic turn-by-turn navigation compatible with new Nokia phones: http://www.sygic.com/index.php/en/press-releases/press-news/225.html | 00:07 |
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| Stskeeps | jebba: well, we need own obs for media codec stuff, ability to build towards debian testing, etc | 00:09 |
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| Stskeeps | we can't build universe or mp3 linking stuff atm either, no matter how oss | 00:10 |
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| Imrahil | it may sound a bit weird, but do you know a possible way to get maemo running on a motorola milestone/droid? | 00:12 |
| ptl | actually that's an oss coder/decoder that does mp3 | 00:13 |
| ml-mobile | oh, that's how to get to the "slide to unlock" screen | 00:13 |
| Imrahil | and I sincerely hope this message wasn't posted trice ^^ I got a nickserv error message all the time ;) | 00:13 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, can't build anything that dlopen()s a codec at runtime? | 00:14 |
| Quibus | Hmm, I have a build dep on stx2any... is that available somewhere? | 00:14 |
| anpr | DocScrutinizer have not found maemo mentioned there | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Imrahil, no. If you want Maemo, buy an N900. :) | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | neither is it explicitly excluded from ovi maps | 00:16 |
| anpr | dont you think it would be bloody stupid of them not to make it on maemo ? | 00:16 |
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| Imrahil | GeneralAntilles: that's kind of the problem ^^ I can only buy it from a local reseller (who offers financing) and Nokia fails to deliver... | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Imrahil: check mer | 00:18 |
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| anpr | guys is anyone else interested about new maemo maps? | 00:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | slightly | 00:19 |
| ShadowJK | anpr, I suspect we will see paid-for navigation on Maemo Ovi Maps and never see paid-for navigation on Maemo Ovi Maps. How far away they're from completing navigation in Maemo ovi maps is another question.. and also whether it'll arrive on Maemo 5 :) | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Imrahil: in short - no. maemo has lots of closed source nokia bits. Neglecting the difficulty in proting | 00:19 |
| Imrahil | :( | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: It's almost certainly a payment issue, not a difficulty one. | 00:20 |
| Imrahil | well thanks for the answer, anyways | 00:20 |
| jebba | Stskeeps: how do you do it now if you can't use OBS? | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: it costs lots more to license maps for use with turn-by-turn than just maps | 00:20 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm not convinced they have it working :) | 00:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, Moto is more at fault than Nokia. :) | 00:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, for instance Maemo runs fairly competently on the Beagle Board. | 00:21 |
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| pwnguin | ShadowJK: good thing nokia owns a maps company | 00:21 |
| anpr | ShadowJK i've read maemo forums | 00:21 |
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| anpr | and i found opinions that how nokia can forget it's just released device ? | 00:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | anpr, forums are a joke. | 00:22 |
| pwnguin | its the nature of smartphones | 00:22 |
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| pwnguin | how old is the G1? | 00:23 |
| pwnguin | a year? | 00:23 |
| oscillik | more than a year | 00:23 |
| oscillik | probably closer to two years | 00:23 |
| anpr | SpeedEvil but nokia made it free now | 00:23 |
| anpr | for some devices | 00:23 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, where is your favorite place for communication | 00:23 |
| pwnguin | The HTC Dream was released in the US on 22 October 2008 | 00:24 |
| pwnguin | so a year and a few months | 00:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, smoke signals. | 00:24 |
| lcuk | romantic candlelit dinner? | 00:24 |
| lcuk | lol | 00:24 |
| * w00t blinks | 00:24 | |
| anpr | hmm | 00:26 |
| anpr | maybe i just lost in all that | 00:26 |
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| pwnguin | anpr: does the G1 run android 2.0? | 00:27 |
| anpr | i have no idea :) | 00:27 |
| pwnguin | afaict no | 00:27 |
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| pwnguin | so when maemo6 comes out next winter with a new phone | 00:27 |
| jaw_vvd | how to compile with scratchbox for ARM? | 00:28 |
| anpr | i just wonder is nokia doing something with n900 | 00:28 |
| pwnguin | it wont be any different | 00:28 |
| anpr | because i see them making ovi maps free for symbian devices | 00:28 |
| oscillik | pwnguin: not stock Android 2.0, nope. i believe someone is working on modding it to work though | 00:28 |
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| anpr | i am not worried about maemo 6 on n900 | 00:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, well, excepting Mer. | 00:28 |
| anpr | i never thought it will happen | 00:28 |
| pwnguin | GeneralAntilles: how does Mer plan to cope with the GSM module? | 00:29 |
| anpr | i just wish to know about ovi maps 3.03 | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, helllooooo, oFono. | 00:29 |
| pwnguin | neat. | 00:30 |
| Quibus | How do I let a package use debhelper7 during build? | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | pwnguin, what's there now should also be workable if a UI is slapped on top of it. | 00:30 |
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| jebba | Quibus: does it *need* debhelper 7 for sure? Just downgrade it to debhelper 5 and echo 5 > debian/compat | 00:31 |
| pwnguin | speaking of Mer, what's the deal with the Sharing icon | 00:31 |
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| Quibus | jebba: I'll try that | 00:31 |
| jebba | it usually works | 00:31 |
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| pwnguin | http://www.openshareicons.com/ | 00:32 |
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| zerojay | Sweet, replacement N900 here. | 00:32 |
| Quibus | jebba: so far so good, thanks :-) | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (ovi maps) I *have* turn-by-turn info here on ovi maps for an arbitrary route - just in written text only (or I failed to find the knob to turn up spoken guidance) | 00:33 |
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| anpr | DocScrutinizer which device do u have ? | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 | 00:34 |
| anpr | yeah, it still has not spoken nav probably | 00:34 |
| anpr | n900 does not have the newest version of ovi maps | 00:34 |
| anpr | which support all those features for free | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | it's not the same ovi maps | 00:34 |
| pupnik | wolf^: as far as i know, the most advanced screen blitting work (open source) has been done in DrNokSnes - check source | 00:34 |
| oscillik | people keep, for some unknown reason, thinking that the version of Ovi Maps on Maemo is an old version. this is not true | 00:35 |
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| anpr | ShadowJK so explain me the difference then | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | anpr: but I bet that'S not a matter of paying for text2speech | 00:35 |
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| ShadowJK | anpr, they're completely different products, but they have the same name. | 00:35 |
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| anpr | ohhh | 00:36 |
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| anpr | so what's the difference btw them? | 00:36 |
| oscillik | anpr: the version of Ovi Maps on Maemo is the first release for Maemo. the Ovi Maps for Symbian has been around for a long time | 00:36 |
| oscillik | the version on Maemo has been around for a few months | 00:36 |
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| anpr | oscillik kk | 00:36 |
| anpr | i see now | 00:36 |
| anpr | but maemo version is not free, like symbian's now, is it ? | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | anpr, Maemo Ovi Maps is a new from-scratch thing that isn't finished. S60 Ovi Maps used to be called Nokia Maps, before Ovi existed and Nokia bought Navteq | 00:36 |
| Quibus | Is there a gl package for Maemo/ | 00:36 |
| Quibus | ? | 00:36 |
| oscillik | anpr: not at the moment, no | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | anpr, Maemo version is free | 00:37 |
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| Quibus | something like libgl1-mesa-dev | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | well I'd guess if Nokia has the same name for the app, they want to offer same service (eventually) | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | But it doesn't do anything you'd want to pay for anyway ;-) | 00:37 |
| anpr | so who is right ? oscillik or ShadowJK ? | 00:37 |
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| oscillik | anpr: Ovi Maps is free, but Turn By Turn voice notified navigation is not free at the moment | 00:37 |
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| anpr | okay | 00:38 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: Maemo Ovi Maps is free?? | 00:38 |
| anpr | and probably they do not want it to make free ? | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, gratis | 00:38 |
| luke-jr | oh | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | not libre | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | oscillik: not free on maemo ovi maps you mean? | 00:38 |
| luke-jr | useless | 00:38 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: so say gratis -.- | 00:38 |
| oscillik | DocScrutinizer: yes | 00:38 |
| luke-jr | libre is not an English word btw | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | oscillik, turn by turn voice notified navigation DOES NOT EXIST. Whether it costs money or not, is an irrelevant question, don't you think? | 00:39 |
| luke-jr | or rather, not in that usage :p | 00:39 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, you are wrong | 00:39 |
| luke-jr | English 'libre' means 'a cocktail made with rum, lime juice, and cola' | 00:39 |
| luke-jr | XD | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, oh? | 00:39 |
| lcuk | i could pay someone to sit in car and use nokia maps | 00:39 |
| oscillik | ShadowJK: could've sworn my E90 does Turn by Turn voice notified navigation | 00:39 |
| anpr | so there is not any version on maemo for turn voice nav ? | 00:39 |
| wolf^ | pupnik, thanks | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | Yes, S60 Ovi Maps has paid-for turn by turn navigation. | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | Which will become free on some specific phone models | 00:40 |
| anpr | Shadikka which, is free now* | 00:40 |
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| anpr | on specific models | 00:40 |
| ShadowJK | oh they already made it free? I'm shocked they moved that fast :-) | 00:40 |
| anpr | yeah | 00:40 |
| anpr | they've made it | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: S60 voice notif is free-as-in-beer | 00:40 |
| anpr | but just for 10 devices i think | 00:40 |
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| ShadowJK | They gave me 2 year's free license with my E75 anyway, still on that :) | 00:41 |
| anpr | http://maps.nokia.com/explore-services/ovi-maps | 00:41 |
| pupnik | everyone seems to be getting free beer and i still have to pay for it :/ | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: see http://events.nokia.com/ovimaps/index.html | 00:41 |
| Quibus | jebba: the package needs python 2.5 to compile but 2.3 is installed by default. I have it depend on 2.5, but what is the best way to let the package build with python 2.5? (It's not in the standard path of course.) | 00:41 |
| Quibus | I have 2.5 installed | 00:42 |
| anpr | kk, so you guys think it just a question of time for turn voice navigation on maemo 5 | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 00:42 |
| ShadowJK | E75 isn't listed :) | 00:42 |
| anpr | because it is still being developed ? | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | anpr: exactly | 00:42 |
| anpr | okay | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: seen the little "more" >> lower right corner? | 00:43 |
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| ShadowJK | nope? | 00:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/maps-support/compatibility-and-download | 00:44 |
| luke-jr | anpr: I think buying anything from Nokia on future expectations, promised or not, is a big mistake. | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | E75 listed | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | as is n900 ;-D | 00:44 |
| jebba | Quibus: not sure about python packaging. I just did one that put /scratchbox in the freaking path of the output .deb gah. | 00:44 |
| anpr | luke-jr you know | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, fail :) | 00:45 |
| anpr | more i got involved in it | 00:45 |
| anpr | more i think that you're right | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | wtf, you need pc suite to upgrade? | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | when S60 these days even have something similar to app manager that does application updates... | 00:46 |
| w00t | grr, why does conky (600kb) require droid fonts package (4.8mb) | 00:46 |
| * w00t mutters | 00:46 | |
| lcuk | w00t, are they optified! | 00:46 |
| anpr | DocScrutinizer "Your device has nokia maps preinstalled" | 00:46 |
| t-tan | Quibus: have a look at my sympy port | 00:46 |
| w00t | lcuk: I don't care, I don't want to have to pull that down atm as wifi is flaking out | 00:46 |
| anpr | that's what is said | 00:46 |
| lcuk | thats reasonable any time of the day | 00:47 |
| w00t | (but I hope so) | 00:47 |
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| Quibus | t-tan: do you have a URL for that? | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | anpr: N900:yes. E75:>>D | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ownload Maps Updater to your compatible computer. | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | The Maps Updater software installs Ovi Maps 3.0 to your mobile and also upgrades map data and navigator voice files from earlier versions of Maps. | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | << | 00:48 |
| t-tan | Quibus: if you have extras-devel (with deb-src) enabled, just do apt-source sympy | 00:48 |
| anpr | but 3.0 is bloody old | 00:48 |
| anpr | 3.03 is the newest, which includes free turn voice nav | 00:48 |
| Quibus | t-tan: good point | 00:48 |
| ShadowJK | oh, seems the automatic firmware upgrade check has failed on my E75 | 00:48 |
| Quibus | t-tan: note that I only need to set an environment variable to let it work, I just found out | 00:49 |
| anpr | ShadowJK give me 1 sec | 00:49 |
| anpr | i'll find article for you | 00:49 |
| Quibus | t-tan: PYTHON=python2.5 will do | 00:49 |
| anpr | http://www.symbian-guru.com/welcome/2010/01/ovi-maps-goes-free-for-some-devices.html | 00:49 |
| anpr | check this out | 00:49 |
| Quibus | but I don't know how to let the debian/* files set that | 00:49 |
| t-tan | Quibus: depends on which build system you use. make sure it only calls 2.5 during the build | 00:50 |
| pupnik | i can actually follow a map myself | 00:50 |
| pupnik | must be old | 00:50 |
| Quibus | t-tan: it's a custom build system | 00:51 |
| Quibus | t-tan: so, PYTHON=python2.5 make | 00:51 |
| Quibus | would do | 00:51 |
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| anpr | ShadowJK and i now know that n97 got free nav as well | 00:51 |
| anpr | they made some kind of update | 00:51 |
| anpr | and it should be in the list soon | 00:51 |
| Quibus | ah, I could probably just put that before the make command | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | lol, looks like they have rootfs space issues on N97 :) | 00:52 |
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| t-tan | Quibus: put it in your debian/rules: PYTHON:=2.5 and export PYTHON | 00:52 |
| anpr | ShadowJK yeah | 00:52 |
| anpr | but as i know they fixed it | 00:52 |
| anpr | so that's what i was asking about | 00:52 |
| anpr | about this kind of nav on n900 | 00:52 |
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| Quibus | t-tan: why export it? | 00:53 |
| t-tan | Quibus: so that you don't have specfiy it before every make call | 00:54 |
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| Quibus | t-tan: OK, that seems to do the trick :-) | 00:55 |
| Quibus | t-tan: thanks | 00:56 |
| t-tan | Quibus: which app are you porting? | 00:56 |
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| Quibus | t-tan: openmsx | 00:56 |
| anpr | any other news about maemo 5 or n900 ? | 00:56 |
| anpr | because somebody said that forums is joke | 00:56 |
| anpr | so i bet i need to ask here :) | 00:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | anpr, Nokia hasn't announced anything meaningful. | 00:57 |
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| oscillik | anpr: if your N900 hits 88mph, it creates a flux time dispersal effect and you can theoretically go back or forward in time | 00:57 |
| oscillik | but only if you have PR1.1 installed | 00:57 |
| anpr | :DDDD | 00:58 |
| anpr | but do you think that n900 is "becoming bigger and bigger" ? | 00:59 |
| Caesium | I hope not, mine barely fits into my pocket as it is. | 00:59 |
| oscillik | Caesium: your pockets are too small then | 01:00 |
| anpr | that's why i've put it in brackets :D | 01:00 |
| pupnik | http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/07/pixel-qi-displays-hit-production-lines-in-january-multitouch-4/ i missed this -- a decent display for both color and low-power b/w viewing | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Caesium, those are women's pants. | 01:00 |
| * ShadowJK lols: E75's OTA upgrade removed the OTA upgrade from Control Panel. I assume that's a hint no further upgrades will be coming | 01:00 | |
| Caesium | *thats* where I'm going wrong :D | 01:00 |
| * oscillik anxiously awaits the release of Aliens vs Predator (game) and autechre's new album (music). this is all | 01:01 | |
| GeneralAntilles | oscillik, Mass Effect 2 is taking over my life. :( | 01:01 |
| oscillik | GeneralAntilles: heh, i know AvP is gonna cause some issues between my beloved and i when it comes out in a few weeks time | 01:02 |
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| vldcnst | Any idea why on n900/latest ff vers youtube videos won't play video, but I can hear sound ? | 01:06 |
| anpr | flash / | 01:06 |
| anpr | is too old on n900 ? | 01:06 |
| vldcnst | ? | 01:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | vldcnst, Fennec or MicroB? | 01:07 |
| vldcnst | GeneralAntilles: fennec. | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does it work in MicroB? | 01:08 |
| vldcnst | Yeap. | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | vldcnst, Fennec's plugins have always been a bit wonky. | 01:08 |
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| vldcnst | True... but it's strange, sound works but no visible applet. | 01:09 |
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| * zerojay yawns. | 01:10 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yo, Jay. | 01:10 |
| zerojay | yo yo. | 01:10 |
| * w00t wonders if GeneralAntilles ever sleeps. | 01:10 | |
| pupnik | http://ln-s.net/4t2r Nokia beats forecasts, shares rally (wonder how much N900/maemo plays into that) | 01:10 |
| zerojay | w00t: No. lol | 01:10 |
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| zerojay | Craaaaaap. | 01:11 |
| zerojay | I have a 16GB microsd card... | 01:11 |
| zerojay | ...somewhere. | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | w00t, what, it's 6PM. | 01:11 |
| w00t | I have one in my n900 | 01:11 |
| w00t | but it's mine. | 01:11 |
| w00t | all mine. | 01:11 |
| zerojay | If my kittens haven't eaten it anyways. | 01:11 |
| * w00t cackles | 01:11 | |
| ScribbleJ | Does anyone want to take a stab at telling me why mmap is failing when I'm trying to do some v4l2 style video? Maybe I should just use gstreamer. | 01:11 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: what was the lamest part of Mass Effect 1 for you? | 01:11 |
| w00t | GeneralAntilles: meaning that when we spoke 12 hours or so ago, it was 6am. | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, horrible side missions. | 01:12 |
| ScribbleJ | The lamest part of Mass Effect 2: All that buildup about alien sex, and no alien boobies. | 01:12 |
| w00t | GeneralAntilles: and I'm sure I've seen you earlier and later than these times =) | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | w00t, early morning today. ;) | 01:12 |
| ScribbleJ | I mean 1 | 01:12 |
| ScribbleJ | Sorry | 01:12 |
| zerojay | I can't even remotely catch up on videogames anymore. | 01:12 |
| w00t | ^ | 01:12 |
| bennypr0fane | hey anyone know an app for unzipping .zip files on n900? | 01:12 |
| ScribbleJ | There better be some alien boobs in 2 or I'm going to feel soooo cheated. | 01:12 |
| zerojay | Been playing almost nothing but Street Fighter 4 for a year straight, hardcore. | 01:12 |
| w00t | bennypr0fane: 'zip' | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | ScribbleJ, you can clearly see EA's influence in Mass Effect 2. | 01:12 |
| w00t | (if you're on the cli..) | 01:12 |
| ScribbleJ | GeneralAntilles, that sounds like it's bad. | 01:13 |
| zerojay | EA gets a very bad rap, honestly. | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | ScribbleJ, it's not the worst thing, but it's a bit depressing. | 01:13 |
| ScribbleJ | EA /earned/ a bad rap, honestly. | 01:13 |
| zerojay | No. | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, yeah, that. | 01:13 |
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| ScribbleJ | I still remember when Electronic Arts was just a dev house. SKATE OR DIE! | 01:13 |
| zerojay | There's so so so so so many ways that EA's improved games and used their influence to make that happen which you will never know or hear about. | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | ScribbleJ, lots of chest shots during conversations. | 01:13 |
| w00t | I don't really like where EA are (trying very hard) to go with "online gaming" being the one and only field | 01:14 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: for me, fairly bad side missions. lack of ability to do any cool spaceshippy things. That atrocious level with the conscious plant that spit out the woman. | 01:14 |
| w00t | i.e. they want perpetual fees, for everything | 01:14 |
| ScribbleJ | GeneralAntilles, that is a positive point in my book! | 01:14 |
| ScribbleJ | GeneralAntilles, really, it just models where I'm looking in real life conversations. | 01:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, aw, the Thorian was fun. | 01:14 |
| w00t | (but then, ubisoft are looking like they're going to show them that's probable suicide...) | 01:14 |
| zerojay | w00t: *every* gaming company does. | 01:14 |
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| zerojay | Ubi's not doing anything perpetual. | 01:14 |
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| w00t | zerojay: there is a reason I have bought games numbering in a linear curve as the years have gone by | 01:15 |
| pupnik | The horror-zombie theme felt just as awkwardly tacked-on and pointless as the horror scene in HL2. Does not fit into sci-fi. Imo. | 01:15 |
| * oscillik fires up TF2 | 01:15 | |
| w00t | (downwards, that is) | 01:15 |
| anpr | guys does anyone have time for 1 question which is basicly about java on maemo ? | 01:15 |
| zerojay | w00t: BitTorrent. :) | 01:15 |
| oscillik | pupnik: wrong. Alien. | 01:15 |
| bennypr0fane | w00t where can i find zip? | 01:15 |
| ScribbleJ | oscillik, no zombies in Alien. | 01:15 |
| pupnik | oscillik: people rising up out of the ground is a zombie-theme | 01:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, Mass Effect to Mass Effect 2 is very much like Assassin's Creed to Assassin's Creed II. | 01:15 |
| jebba | They dont even *mention* the N900 (!) | 01:15 |
| jebba | "Nokia Corporation Q4 2009 Earnings Call Transcript " http://seekingalpha.com/article/185157-nokia-corporation-q4-2009-earnings-call-transcript | 01:15 |
| pupnik | on-topic? what? | 01:15 |
| ScribbleJ | Is it? I thought AC2 was actually a big improvement over 1. | 01:16 |
| ScribbleJ | I mean, it's still not perfect but now at least there are things to /do/. | 01:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ScribbleJ, yeah, both had great ideas with strong stories and cool environments in 1 but with relatively weak gameplay. | 01:16 |
| kynky | zero punctuaion vid of ac2 was funny | 01:16 |
| oscillik | pupnik: ahhh sorry, i thought you were making a generalising statement about horror having no place in sci-fi. my fault for doing IRC and TF2 at the same time | 01:16 |
| oscillik | :p | 01:16 |
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| * zerojay shuts up about AC2. lol | 01:16 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Gameplay caught up in 2. | 01:16 |
| jebba | "In Q4, our top five smart phones, based on both net sales and gross profit, included four touch screens, the Nokia 5800, N97, N97 Mini, and 5530. Our touch screen portfolio generated very impressive growth as we expanded our portfolio to seven global touch screens in Q4, compared to only three in Q3. We shipped nearly 10 million touch screens in Q4, up more than 60%, compared to approximately 6 million in Q3." | 01:16 |
| ScribbleJ | Exactly, GA. | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | AC2 was awesome. | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | jebba, did Anssi demo Facebook again? ;) | 01:17 |
| jebba | Isn't it a bit strange they dont mention maemo nor n900 at all? hmm | 01:17 |
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| jebba | GeneralAntilles: anssi? | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | jebba, not surprised at all. | 01:17 |
| ScribbleJ | Hey, I'm still new to my N900 and I'm about to waste a lot of time... can someone tell me: a) What do you use to stream from your cameras? b) Skype with video... possible/how? | 01:18 |
| bennypr0fane | w00t i'm serious, i don't have a zipping aspp, otherwise i wouldn't be asking.... | 01:18 |
| ScribbleJ | I don't need details, just a general high-level pointer. | 01:18 |
| jebba | GeneralAntilles: why not mention ti? | 01:18 |
| jebba | it | 01:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jebba, because the dinosaurs are either A. Scared or B. In denial. | 01:18 |
| pupnik | In media and games, the Ovi store continued on a steep growth trend and we have now exceeded 1 million downloads a day | 01:18 |
| pupnik | (!) | 01:18 |
| henkie- | can i make MediaBox use mplayer? | 01:18 |
| ScribbleJ | One million downloads? | 01:18 |
| jebba | GeneralAntilles: the dinos at nokia? | 01:18 |
| jebba | i was hoping to get some idea of how many n900s they've shipped | 01:19 |
| henkie- | my avi's wont play through upnp/dnla | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | jebba, well, the dinos everywhere don't get opensource, but, yes, at Nokia in this case. | 01:19 |
| * GeneralAntilles would bet between 1-5 mill. | 01:19 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Although the supply issues may have dampened that number. | 01:19 |
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| anpr | how bloody comes n900 was not mentioned | 01:19 |
| mikhas | and just perhaps Q4 09 means oct-dec. now when again was the n900 available for sale? | 01:19 |
| anpr | ffs | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | anpr, see my comments about dinosaurs. | 01:19 |
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| ScribbleJ | henkie-, I have the same problem. What are you using for DLNA server? | 01:20 |
| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: Id say the minimum wouldnt have been dampened much, but the max could have been | 01:20 |
| henkie- | ScribbleJ, MediaTomb | 01:20 |
| Xisdibik | i might wager 750k-3M | 01:20 |
| jebba | GeneralAntilles: ya, but no press asked either | 01:20 |
| pupnik | investors want to hear about profits. that's why n900 wasn't mentioned ;) | 01:20 |
| anpr | yeah, but n900 must have affected sales | 01:20 |
| ScribbleJ | Ah, that saves me time, henkie- -- I was going to try mediatomb. | 01:20 |
| jebba | WSJ: "But demand for Nokia's devices, such as the newly launched N900 high-end smart phone, helped the company increase its handset market share to 39% in the fourth quarter from 37% a year earlier." not sure how they know that about n900 then.... | 01:20 |
| ScribbleJ | I use ushare. | 01:20 |
| henkie- | ScribbleJ, mythtv also has troubles, but that could be the encoding | 01:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, my bet is that Maemo Devices has been one of the most consistently profitable high-end areas of the company for the last 5 years. | 01:20 |
| anpr | pupnik so u think n900 was not profitable / | 01:20 |
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| anpr | ? | 01:20 |
| ScribbleJ | It's weird, I can watch the video if I copy it onto the n900 but same video over the upnp, no picture. | 01:21 |
| maxaud | Hey guys, I'm trying to update the flash player on my 770 with os2007he, does anyone know an easy way to do that? Also, I can't find the command line / root access.. how do I get there? | 01:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | ScribbleJ, think it's a bug in PR1.1. | 01:21 |
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| henkie- | ScribbleJ, yes, only sounds. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6823 more ppl with problems (even without upnp) | 01:21 |
| povbot | Bug 6823: media player won't play any video files now (.avi) divx / xvid | 01:21 |
| * GeneralAntilles could've sworn it worked fine during the beta, but I can't see to get them working now. | 01:21 | |
| ScribbleJ | GeneralAntilles, that's good to hear. It's not a critical feature for me, so if I know it has worked and will work again, I'm happy. | 01:21 |
| * pupnik shush's | 01:22 | |
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| ScribbleJ | For now I can just mount the media disk over the net and "stream" the videos that way. | 01:22 |
| henkie- | ScribbleJ, how? i dont seems to have nfs support | 01:22 |
| henkie- | -s | 01:22 |
| ScribbleJ | henkie-, well, I haven't tried yet, but I'd probably try nfs, samba, and sshfs in that order, then punt. | 01:23 |
| ScribbleJ | I think I'm becoming less afraid to force my own kernel onto this thing despite the fact that I can't find all the proper tools. | 01:24 |
| henkie- | i do hope they will release regular updates | 01:24 |
| henkie- | already wasted too much time waiting for the freerunner/openmoko to become usable | 01:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | PR1.1.1 and PR1.2 have both been announced. | 01:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'd say March/April for PR1.2 (conjecture) | 01:25 |
| jebba | really? i'd think it would just be a drop in the bucket pre-N900. | 01:25 |
| henkie- | too bad there still isnt an easy way to sync my PIM stuff | 01:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jebba, sorry, wording was weird. That division was always consistently profitable, not that it was a large portion of company profits. | 01:26 |
| bennypr0fane | could i please get some help? i'm trying to unzip a file on my n900 but i can't find an application that does it | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | jebba, i.e., they were always in the black. | 01:26 |
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| henkie- | playing movies is nice ofcourse, but being able to share my calendar/contacts and all would kickass | 01:26 |
| ScribbleJ | bennypr0fane, apt-get instlal unzip | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apparently there are plans for at least 1 (likely more) major updates after PR1.2 (larger in size). | 01:26 |
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| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: like one to successfully completely fix MfE? | 01:27 |
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| henkie- | I was amazed i could just import my data from my old nokia though bluetooth, worked like a breeze | 01:27 |
| jebba | GeneralAntilles: any clue on how many n900s shipped? | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xisdibik, as I couldn't give two shits about Exchange support, I have no idea. ;) | 01:27 |
| henkie- | even transferred contact images | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | jebba, haven't seen any numbers anywhere. | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: so, i got my diff impl to do something remotely useful | 01:28 |
| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: well i want it to sync successfully with Google ;) | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and it's nice and short | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | now i just need to feed it a corpus | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and then teach it to score its stuff | 01:28 |
| jebba | they did 6million touchscreens in Q3, 10 million touchscreens in Q4, fwiw. | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | it also autofuzzes for additions | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | jebba, last set of semi-reliable numbers I saw for Maemo was in 2007. | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | 50k 770, 300k N800 | 01:28 |
| jebba | how can they sell 240 million fones in *one quarter*. That boggles the mind. | 01:28 |
| ScribbleJ | timeless, what is this? | 01:28 |
| bennypr0fane | ScribbleJ sorry i'm not sure i understand that. | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | And that was just before the N800 price drop | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | So extrapolate from that what you will. | 01:29 |
| timeless_mbp | ScribbleJ: a magic tool i'm writing | 01:29 |
| jebba | wow, 300k N800 in 2007? | 01:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | it isn't really interesting to the real world | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | jebba, and before the price drop. | 01:29 |
| timeless_mbp | although hopefully its output will be | 01:29 |
| bennypr0fane | what does apt-get instlal mean? | 01:29 |
| ScribbleJ | bennypr0fane, I'm not sure about a graphical applet, but you can open a commandline and install unzip from apt-get, which is a linuxy thing to do. | 01:29 |
| jebba | so like million n900s or somesuch? | 01:29 |
| timeless_mbp | bennypr0fane: 'you can't spell' | 01:29 |
| ScribbleJ | timeless, it was my typo. :) | 01:29 |
| cehteh | if nokia could only produce this millions in time :P | 01:29 |
| ScribbleJ | He's just copying. | 01:29 |
| anpr | but i still think apple got nokia with its 3gs, talking in sales | 01:29 |
| * cehteh still waiting | 01:29 | |
| anpr | aspect | 01:30 |
| cehteh | all cheaper shops have "out of stock" in germany | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | jebba, seems like a safe bet. | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | anpr, Apple cheats. | 01:30 |
| anpr | they always do | 01:30 |
| cehteh | didnt nokia wantted to make a press release today about shortening their portofolio? | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Carrier subsidies. | 01:30 |
| anpr | that's i kind of do not like/hate em | 01:31 |
| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: as i wasnt able to send mail with attachments, and some mail got bugged and showed nothing, and never showed in mail box, had to full resync to get it | 01:31 |
| bennypr0fane | scribblej sorry, i have zero knowledge of linux. can you tell the commands i need to enter or is it too complicated? | 01:31 |
| ScribbleJ | timeless, I don't mind a bit of ivory-tower thinking.... what's this magic tool do? Feeding it a corpus sounds delightfully language-processingish. | 01:31 |
| cehteh | ala scrapping maemo? .. or symbian? .. *eg* | 01:31 |
| jebba | anpr: nokia sells far more smartfones than apple. | 01:31 |
| timeless_mbp | ScribbleJ: yep | 01:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | cehteh, scrapping S40 | 01:31 |
| timeless_mbp | ScribbleJ: so, i have a side project which translates from Fingrish to English | 01:31 |
| ScribbleJ | bennypr0fane, well, I could gt you as far as installing it but I'd lose patience right around helping you use it from the commandline. You would lose patience far before that. There must be a better way. | 01:31 |
| timeless_mbp | the problem is that every release someone adds more Fingrish | 01:31 |
| ScribbleJ | timeless, Fingrish? | 01:32 |
| cehteh | GeneralAntilles: do you have a link to the todays press release? | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | ScribbleJ: en-FI | 01:32 |
| anpr | jebba but apple probably is still more profitable company isn't ? | 01:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | cehteh, not handy. | 01:32 |
| ScribbleJ | Hah, OK | 01:32 |
| cehteh | ok | 01:32 |
| ScribbleJ | So you are building an automatic translator. | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 01:32 |
| henkie- | I was wondering, how does development in C/C++ for the n900 work, I assume sources not compiled on the n900 itself? | 01:32 |
| ScribbleJ | Kind of? | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i manually translated the project | 01:32 |
| Matthew- | Hmm | 01:32 |
| henkie- | is there a VM or something available? | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | but i want it to learn what i translated | 01:32 |
| ScribbleJ | henkie-, there is a good guide to this on the maemo.org site, click development. | 01:32 |
| jebba | anpr: not sure who is more profitable, but nokia made $2 billion dollars profit last quarter | 01:33 |
| bennypr0fane | ScribbleJ sure there's no graphical app? seems hard to believe.... | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | so when new sentences are added, it can automatically 'fix' those | 01:33 |
| ScribbleJ | henkie-, the short answer is no, they are compiled on a PC running scratchbox. | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | until i release better fixes | 01:33 |
| anpr | jebba and the thing is that many nokia customers are bloody dissapointed | 01:33 |
| ScribbleJ | bennypr0fane, I'm really new to N900. I find that hard to believe, too. I don't know whether it is true. | 01:33 |
| anpr | i've read like thousands threats with words " it was my last nokia product" | 01:33 |
| jebba | anpr: apple had profit of 1.6 billion Q4, so nokia won there. | 01:33 |
| ScribbleJ | timeless, that's very interesting... so what do you feed it then, just your past translations? | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 01:34 |
| jebba | anpr: they are disappointed? all 240 million of them? | 01:34 |
| bennypr0fane | thanks however... | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | the en-Fi and my en-US | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | then my en-US and my en-GB | 01:34 |
| VDVsx | ScribbleJ, henkie- there's a image that you can run under a VM | 01:34 |
| uhsf | ok now my homework due tomorow is done, time to open that mysterious newegg box I received today :-) | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, for fun i'll probably start feeding it my en-US and my en-Gb | 01:34 |
| jebba | well,. more like billion of them. anpr they sold 240 million devices in one fkn quarter. They can't be that disappointed. | 01:34 |
| ScribbleJ | timeless, I'm always interested in projects like that. What kind of system do you use for an engine to drive it? | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | because those are simpler to analyze | 01:34 |
| anpr | that's not a good fact | 01:34 |
| jebba | anpr: what's not a good fact? | 01:34 |
| maxaud | How do I access the command line on my Nokia 770 using os2007HE? | 01:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | anpr, Apple has those too, they just delete them off their forums. | 01:35 |
| jebba | you can find people complaining about every device ever made if you want to find a complaint. | 01:35 |
| Matthew- | any russians here? | 01:35 |
| anpr | that some of them are, like ofcause not all of them | 01:36 |
| henkie- | ScribbleJ, VDVsx tnx | 01:36 |
| anpr | i think that just everyday users are happy with that | 01:36 |
| henkie- | i'll stick with py/qt and copying to the device for the moment :) | 01:37 |
| jebba | ya, people leaving in droves drove their marketshare *UP* to 39% of the entire market. And they went up in smartfone too. anpr | 01:37 |
| uhsf | well, well, well, Nokia N900, how interesting | 01:37 |
| anpr | jebba i have one question | 01:37 |
| henkie- | too bad my old j2me app doesnt work anymore :) | 01:38 |
| VDVsx | henkie-, which OS are you using ? | 01:38 |
| anpr | nokia's market share is 38% | 01:38 |
| henkie- | VDVsx, on my desktop? linux/gentoo | 01:38 |
| VDVsx | anpr, raised to 40% according to today's news | 01:38 |
| anpr | what the figure of the whole market ? | 01:38 |
| anpr | i just want to understand how much are those 38% | 01:38 |
| * jebba bores of discussion with anpr | 01:38 | |
| henkie- | pyqt kind of works, only the sizes of the elements dont really match | 01:39 |
| VDVsx | henkie-, you can use MADDE I think, and probably scratchbox, but I don't know how to install it in no .deb systems | 01:39 |
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| VDVsx | henkie-, MADDE is just like a chroot, only the cross-compiler and is mostly targeted to Qt | 01:40 |
| VDVsx | http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE ^ | 01:40 |
| anpr | GeneralAntilles bloody apple | 01:40 |
| henkie- | VDVsx, tnx, i'll look into that | 01:40 |
| anpr | Matthew- not really russian | 01:41 |
| anpr | but i can speak | 01:41 |
| Arkenoi | why angry birds opponents are green pigs? | 01:41 |
| hardaker2 | Madde is a great solution for non-.deb systems. I have it on fedora and it works great. | 01:41 |
| Matthew- | anpr: how's sleep well idiomaticaly ? | 01:41 |
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| VDVsx | anpr, ah and don't forget that apple profits include the all range of MACs + Ipods | 01:41 |
| VDVsx | Arkenoi, well, better ask Rovio :D | 01:42 |
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| anpr | VDVsx so nokia beat them obviosly | 01:43 |
| henkie- | would be nice to have app that enables wifi only during specific times (at night it is kind of useless) | 01:43 |
| anpr | if nokia beat them just with phones | 01:43 |
| anpr | it's a really good fact | 01:43 |
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| henkie- | or a cron-gps-daemon :) | 01:44 |
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| shamus | why is my battery life on the n800 so bad? i have it in off line mode the screen blacks fast and the only app runing is the defult clock | 01:52 |
| shamus | im lucky if the patery last a full day | 01:52 |
| shamus | idle | 01:52 |
| henkie- | shamus, n800 or n900? | 01:52 |
| shamus | n800 | 01:52 |
| shamus | yah i know there geting old | 01:53 |
| shamus | what is it over 3 years old and still kicking | 01:53 |
| henkie- | maybe that's why the battery life is short? | 01:54 |
| shamus | runing os2008 dilblo | 01:54 |
| shamus | the batery is brand new | 01:54 |
| henkie- | ah, then I wouldn't know | 01:54 |
| shamus | or is saposably | 01:54 |
| shamus | got to love oem ugh | 01:54 |
| shamus | but yah i wind up throwing it on the charger daily | 01:55 |
| shamus | with it just idaling most of the time | 01:55 |
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| henkie- | that sounds kind of fast indeed | 01:56 |
| shamus | yah | 01:56 |
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| henkie- | n900 doesnt last much longer tho | 01:56 |
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| shamus | wifi on full time dose use power but still | 01:57 |
| shamus | it should last more then 8 to 24 hours | 01:57 |
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| shamus | eep net split | 01:57 |
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| Wizzup | Just wondering, has anyone tried to run wine with qemu on the n900? | 01:58 |
| ml-mobile | doubtful | 01:58 |
| henkie- | I did try to install vista on it | 01:59 |
| jebba | Wizzup: why with qemu? | 01:59 |
| ml-mobile | that'd be painfully slow | 01:59 |
| Wizzup | jebba: What else would you suggest, bochs? | 01:59 |
| jebba | someone did install windoz 95 with dosbox thoguh ;) | 01:59 |
| shamus | im beging to think i should have gone with the n900 as the n800 and n810 are defidenlty getign old | 01:59 |
| ml-mobile | that was impressive | 01:59 |
| jebba | Wizzup: actually not sure. /me withdraws. I know near zilch abotu wine/win | 02:00 |
| Wizzup | Well, if you want to run x86 bins, you'd need a x86 wine, and qemu can do user mode emulation | 02:00 |
| Wizzup | I just don't know how slow it would be ;) | 02:00 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: we don't | 02:00 |
| Wizzup | probably equal to a 50Mhz x86 processor or something | 02:00 |
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| jebba | ok, i pushed the Maemo extras mirrors onto Amazon's S3 cloud, which should be damn fast. You can grab .install files here (see FOG section): http://espejo.freemoe.org/ | 02:17 |
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| * pupnik is editing mass effect .ini files for saitek controller | 02:18 | |
| pupnik | nice | 02:18 |
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| ScribbleJ | OK, I remember reading some doc about using an osso tool to link against libraries but I cannot find it because I was dropped on my head as a child. Anyone? | 02:18 |
| ScribbleJ | Nevermind. And my head still hurts. | 02:20 |
| Caesium | after editing mce.ini do I just need to HUP mce, or kill it entirely? | 02:21 |
| Caesium | does it autorestart or do I have to/ | 02:21 |
| * Caesium finds talk thread suggesting kill it | 02:22 | |
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| Caesium | mce.ini hurts my head, trying to get the SMS indicator to blink a bit more regularly so I only have ot glance at it to see if I have an SMS, anyone any good at this? | 02:27 |
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| nomis | Caesium: I recently glanced at that stuff, what makes your head hurt? | 02:42 |
| nomis | at least it is extensively commented. | 02:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Caesium: killing it will reboot anyway | 02:43 |
| * Caesium worked it out, I was having trouble with a pause | 02:43 | |
| Caesium | have to use a non-zero value in the second half of a pause for it to have any effect, didn't realise that from the in-file comments | 02:43 |
| nomis | I actually wished it was possible to define temporary patterns. | 02:43 |
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| nomis | e.g. with a dbus command. | 02:43 |
| Caesium | DocScrutinizer51: hm, didn't reboot for me | 02:44 |
| nomis | ... or to have some generic single-blip-patterns. | 02:44 |
| Caesium | initctl stop mce ; initctl start mce .. worked fine | 02:44 |
| Caesium | it turned the screen on but nothing else :) | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Caesium: pause is up to 400andfsome ms only (for led_patterns) | 02:44 |
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| Caesium | I was trying 7100 at first but since the step was 00 it didn't have any effect ;) | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you have to se steps=0 for pause | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | otherwise it's a ramp | 02:46 |
| Caesium | I ended up with (for sms): 9d80400002ff03ff71030000 | 02:46 |
| Caesium | I didn't like how it blinked twice then stayed off for ages, it meant I had to look at the N900 for too long to see if I had missed an SMS | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | which may create nice pause if you try to step across a limit (down below 0, up over 255) | 02:46 |
| Caesium | this one blinks more regularly | 02:46 |
| Caesium | should I put a 7203 after the 7103? | 02:47 |
| Caesium | or doesn't it matter | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Caesium: moment please | 02:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | PatternDeviceOn=254;0;0;rb;9d804000462047207f030000;9d800000 | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | quite pink ;-) | 02:49 |
| Caesium | :D | 02:49 |
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| dymaxion | help! disaster... I woke up this morning (with my N900 on charge via mains socket) and it was boiling hot... crashed in some way... I couldn't power off so had to pull the battery out. (has been happening lots more recently when charging) | 02:54 |
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| dymaxion | Now when I start up the /media/mmc1/ appears to be damaged or unmounted.... it contains a single folder "info" and nothing else... all my files, photos, music etc all gone | 02:54 |
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| dymaxion | I note that there's no entry in /etc/fstab for /media/mmc1 is this normal? Could the N900 have damaged my 16gb SD card? | 02:55 |
| ColdFyre | Caesium: ping | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thoe umts outages going unnoticed are real PITA for irc | 02:56 |
| pupnik | try /etc/mtab | 02:56 |
| pupnik | dymaxion: | 02:56 |
| ColdFyre | or /proc/mounts | 02:56 |
| Caesium | ColdFyre: lo? | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or mount | 02:57 |
| ColdFyre | Caesium: you might not remember, but a few weeks ago i inquired to the chan about a program that would take action for missed events, and that struck your attention | 02:57 |
| dymaxion | hi pupnik, I'll have look | 02:58 |
| Caesium | ColdFyre: ah yeah, I've installed the SDK and done some messing about in it but no real time to make serious progress on anything yet | 02:58 |
| ColdFyre | ah, nice :) | 02:58 |
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| jebba | dymaxion: you probably need to fsck (filesystem check) your mmc. You can do it outside of the N900 as well. | 03:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | wh? is there error thrown on trying to mount? | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | automount works for VFAT only btw | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and only for one (first) partition | 03:02 |
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| jebba | seems to mount corrupted stuff fine. But unmounting it and fscking it would probably help. | 03:07 |
| ifreq | http://deviate.fi/n900/mp3blaster/mp3blaster.jpg :-) | 03:08 |
| dymaxion | ok, last time i ran fsck I trashed a hard drive! any ideas what flags I need to run it with.. i'm not that confident running that one! | 03:08 |
| dymaxion | i was tryign to recover the superblocks and killed it ! | 03:08 |
| acidjazz | Nokia climbs to 40% smartphone market share 65% Profit increase in Q4 | 03:09 |
| acidjazz | mp3blaster eh | 03:09 |
| acidjazz | what is tha tusin gncurses? | 03:09 |
| ifreq | acidjazz: yeah. just learned how to port my 1st app :) | 03:09 |
| ifreq | so pickedup mp3blaster | 03:10 |
| ifreq | beats default player!! no indexing | 03:10 |
| acidjazz | ifreq: do me a huge favor :) | 03:10 |
| acidjazz | port a compilation of php w/ sqlite and gtk :) | 03:10 |
| ifreq | :P you better ask from some skilled ones. im just learning still :) | 03:10 |
| acidjazz | http://gtk.php.net/ | 03:11 |
| dymaxion | it is ok to fsck my mmc from within maemo, given that it's already unmounted... ? I don't have a uSD to SD adapter with me.. will have to buy one otherwise. | 03:11 |
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| acidjazz | i guess ill learn python | 03:12 |
| ifreq | acidjazz: thats still way over my skill lvl. i just wanted to learn howto port simple apps first. | 03:12 |
| ifreq | also need to figure out packagin etc :P | 03:12 |
| ifreq | not familiar as im not even a coder | 03:12 |
| acidjazz | just look at the src of a sample app | 03:13 |
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| acidjazz | ifreq: you need to clean your screen ;) | 03:15 |
| jebba | dymaxion: you need to umount it, then run as root fsck.vfat | 03:17 |
| jebba | dymaxion: fsck.vfat -vvv /dev/mmcblk1p1 | 03:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, I just uped a video to ovi share. But I'm to blockheaded to feature out how to share the URL to access it | 03:20 |
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| pupnik | i keep missing pms | 03:21 |
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| pupnik | DocScrutinizer51: i wisxh the client would provide that | 03:25 |
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| acidjazz | any1 in here successfully writing apps in python? | 03:27 |
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| zerojay | Um... | 03:35 |
| zerojay | N900 is apparently charging... | 03:35 |
| zerojay | Wirelessly. | 03:35 |
| cehteh | lol | 03:36 |
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| cehteh | put it in the microwave? | 03:36 |
| zerojay | Last I saw, it was downloading 51.1. | 03:37 |
| zerojay | No idea if it finished. | 03:37 |
| zerojay | Just was unresponsive with charging led coming on and off. | 03:37 |
| zerojay | Unplugged... kept flashing charging. | 03:37 |
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| Klowner | I think I need one of those spiffy usb charger battey pack thingers | 03:38 |
| AleMaxx | what about mini wormhole with usb-plug? | 03:39 |
| Klowner | they probably won't let me on an airplane with that | 03:39 |
| AleMaxx | maybe, these are hard times | 03:40 |
| Klowner | might end up crash landing and dealing with smoke monsters | 03:40 |
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| AleMaxx | ;) | 03:41 |
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| vldcnst | Help! Media Player doesn't recognize old mp3 files anymore! | 03:41 |
| acidjazz | zerojay: lolll | 03:42 |
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| zerojay | and now to try to find a 16GB microsd card... somewhere in my house. | 03:43 |
| zerojay | And... that was quick, thankfully. | 03:43 |
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| acidjazz | any1 in here codin python | 03:46 |
| nomis | yes. | 03:46 |
| nomis | but I am heading for bed now. Unfortunately you did not ask your question directly, otherwise I might have typed an answer instead of ranting about people not asking their questions directly... | 03:49 |
| acidjazz | nomis: wait :) | 03:50 |
| acidjazz | lol | 03:50 |
| Klowner | no sleep for you! | 03:50 |
| tank-man | you get more help just asking the question instead of surveying if anyone is in a similar sitiuation as you :) | 03:51 |
| uhsf | first impressions about my new Nokia N900, the build quality of this device is amazing | 03:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | freaking bullshit!!!! taskswitcher had a lag of 5 minutes(!!!) while just xterm, xchat, and microb with ovi share video was open. took me 30 minutes of patience to recover by closing microb | 03:53 |
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| uhsf | second impression the software is so not ready for mainstream. the first boot leads to some kind of perpetual reboot loop. is this a joke? even the freerunner gets more points for out of the box functionality | 03:53 |
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| Klowner | uhsf: that's not normal | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | heh FR gets negative points for OOTB performanc | 03:55 |
| uhsf | Klowner: it says internal error: phone application closed, application camera closed and then reboots | 03:55 |
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| ColdFyre | the FR really sucks | 03:55 |
| Klowner | eeh | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I should know | 03:55 |
| ColdFyre | as much as i like it | 03:55 |
| * Klowner didn't experience anything like that | 03:55 | |
| ColdFyre | FR has the buzz issues, deep sleep issues, gsm firmware issues | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but never seen bootloop ootb on N900 | 03:56 |
| ColdFyre | my n900 worked fine ootb | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | seen freeze though as mentioned above | 03:56 |
| cehteh | uhsf: if it reboots, give it back for exchange | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ColdFyre: no gsm FR issues on FR anymore ! .use my uSD image to upgrade | 03:57 |
| Klowner | my first N900 had a bad microphone, second one has been good though | 03:58 |
| ColdFyre | i thought there were still some sim card issues with the newer versions even | 03:58 |
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| ColdFyre | as in it won't "see" some fireball sim cards | 03:58 |
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| * ColdFyre had that problem | 03:58 | |
| * cehteh has the no n900 problem still :P | 03:58 | |
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| ColdFyre | that is a big problem indeed | 03:59 |
| Klowner | cehteh: I had that problem between my first and second N900, Nokia "customer support" was awful | 03:59 |
| ColdFyre | you need to remedy that | 03:59 |
| cehteh | Klowner: yes i had the first one | 03:59 |
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| Klowner | they wouldn't send a replacement until they "processed" my return, which could take "up to a month" | 03:59 |
| cehteh | gave it back for cash (no option for exchange, amazon warehouse deals) | 03:59 |
| Sargun | Since the N900 has both a FM receiver, and transmitter, can we use the receiver to find open channels? | 03:59 |
| cehteh | Sargun: in theory yes | 03:59 |
| lupine_85 | Is maemo 5 + n900 going to support IPv6 OOTB any time soonish? | 04:00 |
| cehteh | iirc there is no such app yet | 04:00 |
| * lupine_85 just finished setting up native IPv6 at home :) | 04:00 | |
| Proteous | what does it mean when the process omap2_mcspi is using a lot of cpu and making my n900 battery drain very quickly | 04:01 |
| uhsf | seriously now why is the damn phone rebooting? | 04:03 |
| dymaxion | jebba, any ideas why there's an info directory in /media/mmc never noticed that before... does that exist on your N900's ? | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Sargun: no point | 04:06 |
| * Caesium does not have /media/mmc1/info | 04:06 | |
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| Sargun | SpeedEvil, what do you mean? | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Sargun: the tx has a dedicated power reciever that's optimised for this | 04:06 |
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| dymaxion | incidentally I ran fsck on /dev/mmcblk1p1 and it found no problems with the filesystem,.... but it appears there's a bug in maemo 5 perhaps? it's copmletely wiped my mmc ! | 04:06 |
| Sargun | SpeedEvil, ah... | 04:06 |
| dymaxion | and written a /media/mmc1/info directory in there isntead | 04:06 |
| uhsf | anyone? did i receive a defective N900? wouldn't be surprising as i'm the unluckiest person in the world | 04:07 |
| dymaxion | looks like the info contains a load of .list and .md4sums files ( the .list files appear to be direcotry listings) | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | uhsf: some people seem to have defective hardware | 04:07 |
| Klowner | uhsf: sounds possible | 04:07 |
| Klowner | uhsf: like I said, mine was defective but not in that way | 04:07 |
| dymaxion | any idea why I've lost all my MMC data :-( I didn't have a backup as I'd only been using it a couple weeks :-( all data gone :-( | 04:08 |
| dymaxion | maemo must have corrupted my file allocation tables... :-( | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | dymaxion: there are mmc recovery tools | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | dymaxion: that read - ignoring FAT | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | is this the internal mmc? | 04:09 |
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| dymaxion | no, external mmc 16gb :-( had about 100mb of stuff I'd downloaded over the past weeks :-( | 04:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | dymaxion: did you try unplugging and replugging - then try it in something else/ | 04:10 |
| dymaxion | yup... first thing i did was remove and reinsert... | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/PhotoRec | 04:11 |
| dymaxion | i need to buy an adapter as I don't have a micro MMC adapter at eh mo | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | does the device show up as 16G free? | 04:11 |
| dymaxion | btw, N900, anyone also noticed with wifi, i connect to a local ad-hoc network (served from my fedora PC about 0.5m away, and by about half day my battery is almost drained. ... seems very power hungry with wifi | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | ad-hoc does not do power save. | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI | 04:11 |
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| dymaxion | df -h doesn't show my mount, not the partition for the mmc | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think it can - in principle | 04:12 |
| dymaxion | aah i see. that's why adhoc causing probs... is it possiblel for my PC to create an actual access point? or can it only create an adhoc connection? | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Does sfdisk -l list it? | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | don't know | 04:12 |
| dymaxion | ah yes... info here... it shows that the start: end blocks have issues | 04:13 |
| dymaxion | cylinder, head, sectors don't match start and end | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | that is not a fundamental issue | 04:14 |
| dymaxion | expected (1, 188, 13) found (0,130,3) | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | or may not be | 04:14 |
| dymaxion | end: expected (1023,220,20) found (968,220,20) | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | that is odd | 04:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | however - absolute first thing - do not write anything to the card - take an image of it | 04:15 |
| dymaxion | can I rip an image from there onto my internal 32gb card? using dd ? | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | dymaxion: was this fat or ext2fs? | 04:16 |
| villager | uhsf: I think I hear that about 10% of n900s have been found to have such defects, so you're not alone | 04:16 |
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| dymaxion | i thought external MMC had to be fat? (fat was dfault formatted) | 04:16 |
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| cehteh | yeah readonly make a image, make a copy of that image, try to salvage that copy | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Sargun: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter - updated with details of expected performance | 04:16 |
| SpeedEvil | dymaxion: nope. It may not mount it if not - but... | 04:17 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: i had some impression that it is very slow to tune a frequency in .. is that just a gui issue of the fm radio app? | 04:17 |
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| villager | uhsf: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6334 | 04:20 |
| povbot | Bug 6334: random but frequent HW watchdog reboots (/proc/bootreason contains "32wd_to") when returning from off_mode | 04:20 |
| dymaxion | SpeedEvil, i'm worried I've lost all my data :-( gonna run "dd" with this command... does that look right? dd if=/dev/mmcblk1p1 | bzip2 > /user/MyDocs/mmcBackup.img.bz2 | 04:21 |
| cehteh | add a bs=4M for better performance | 04:22 |
| cehteh | and better backup the whole card not only the partition | 04:22 |
| cehteh | dd if=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=4M ... | 04:23 |
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| cehteh | there is also gnu-ddrescue, just in case you experience hardware errors | 04:23 |
| SpeedEvil | dd if=/dev/mmcblk1 bs=512 conv=sync,noerror | | 04:24 |
| cehteh | and there are very good tools to recover specific kinds of data .. jpegs and so on from damaged filesystems | 04:24 |
| cehteh | you dont need sync for the pipe | 04:24 |
| SpeedEvil | you don't care about performance pretty much - and you want to continue in the face of errors, and not ignore unreadable pages, but zero pad them | 04:24 |
| SpeedEvil | hence the other options | 04:25 |
| cehteh | well i recommend gnu-ddrescue, can do this much better | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | well - yes - but it's not there. And the above works well. | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ColdFyre: no issues with MOKO11 calypso firmware so far. | 04:25 |
| cehteh | ok | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | except #1024 which is a hw bug | 04:26 |
| cehteh | (was that the internal mmc? | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dieter and me actually made it work finally | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ColdFyre: for buzz issue there's my buzzfix SOP | 04:28 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and A7 version is buzzfixed by fab | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | still I like the N900 better | 04:29 |
| zerojay | wtf... does extras just not work anymore or what...? | 04:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: wazzup? | 04:29 |
| dymaxion | not sure what to do with that image once I've got it to recover data, but I assume there must be tools to do this? can u suggest the best? thanks for your help in desperate times... ! | 04:29 |
| dymaxion | btw, maemo's dd command doesn't support conv option... so I guess I'll have to miss this out | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: just the mismanagment of OM | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | duh, I'm EE. Not mgmt | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | dymaxion: I posted a link earlier to one - recovery tools | 04:30 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I know | 04:30 |
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| uhsf | so villager, seems my N900 is DOA what a fucking deception | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I *WAS* EE | 04:31 |
| dymaxion | sorry cehteh missed your post :-) gnu-ddrescue i'll hav ea look | 04:31 |
| SpeedEvil | uhsf: A few peoples seem to be. | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry no other way to acvoid caps | 04:31 |
| SpeedEvil | uhsf: :/ | 04:31 |
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| uhsf | now is there a reset switch on that useless piece of garbage or something? | 04:31 |
| cehteh | dymaxion: on the device or on a PC? | 04:31 |
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| dymaxion | on the N900 | 04:31 |
| SpeedEvil | uhsf: you might try reflashing | 04:31 |
| uhsf | and then void the waranty? | 04:32 |
| SpeedEvil | dymaxion: If you cannot use conv= options - ensure that teh image is the right size | 04:32 |
| SpeedEvil | uhsf: flashing does not void warranty | 04:32 |
| uhsf | if there is any since i'm in canada | 04:32 |
| cehteh | internal mmc .. well then use dd ... i dont think ddrescue is available for the n900 | 04:32 |
| dymaxion | cehteh, i mean external mmc, but runnign it while mounted in my N900 and not from PC | 04:32 |
| dymaxion | I'll scp it across to my laptop and run ddrescue on it... | 04:32 |
| cehteh | dymaxion: when you can put it in a cardreader then ddrescue on a pc will do | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ColdFyre: U should /join #openmoko-cdevel | 04:33 |
| cehteh | caveat there is a gnu and a suse ddrescue .. the gnu is far more powerful | 04:33 |
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| dymaxion | cehteh, (forgot to bring my uMmc to SD adapter with me.. .need to buy one.. sigh | 04:33 |
| cehteh | usually named gddrescue but depends on distribution | 04:33 |
| uhsf | like i have so much time to waste on this, i can't believe my freerunner i was hoping to replace still owns this 700$ N900 junk | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ColdFyre: ...instead of spreading FUD ;-D | 04:33 |
| cehteh | uhsf: exchange it, faulty hardware is not worth the efforts | 04:34 |
| cehteh | mine rebooted infrequently too and had some other issues, no i still have to wait for a new one | 04:34 |
| cehteh | but there are a lot people telling about flawless devices so, its possible | 04:34 |
| villager | uhsf: if you flash it with newest firmware, it might start working | 04:35 |
| Matthew- | http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs191.snc1/6420_103916819612_585519612_2118588_1695524_n.jpg | 04:35 |
| Matthew- | nice tatoo | 04:35 |
| villager | uhsf: nokia doesn't make flashing hard, they make it easy, and it won't void your warranty | 04:36 |
| zerojay | Is extras down? | 04:36 |
| Matthew- | zerojay: off for the weekend :D | 04:37 |
| Matthew- | anyone knows any place with good wallpapers? | 04:38 |
| zerojay | Awesome timing. :/ | 04:38 |
| Matthew- | i mean rollable walpapers? or what the name is? | 04:38 |
| Matthew- | No > | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | panorama wallpaper? | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | seamless? | 04:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I actually hate it | 04:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer wants decently distinguishable wallpapers for different desktops | 04:43 | |
| ali1234 | i haven't found a use for more than one desktop yet | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | seamless doesn't mean non-distinguishable | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | too mucs?h widget | 04:43 |
| ali1234 | and that has no icons on it | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooops touchpad - another objec of hatred | 04:44 |
| SpeedEvil | I want multiple proper desktops that I can flip between | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | seamless is most useless eyecandy I ever seen | 04:45 |
| zerojay | Uh... why? | 04:45 |
| zerojay | There's nothing stopping you from having completely different images for each desktop. It'll just look like ass, but you can do it. | 04:46 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i was thinking about a rainbow gradient | 04:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | Personally - my desktops are obvious from widtgets | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what I use on my desktop | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | we have the map desktop - with location-applet, osm2go, gpx, location-applet-gui, ... | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | saves 3k of pict memory :-P | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | info desktop, with weather, bytes tx/rx, ... | 04:49 |
| Matthew- | ali1234: lol ;-) | 04:50 |
| Matthew- | i dont have any widgets | 04:50 |
| Matthew- | thou ive got phone/conv/email desktop | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | your fault | 04:50 |
| Matthew- | then bookmarks/blogs bla bla bla | 04:51 |
| Matthew- | then work | 04:51 |
| ali1234 | i can't see the point in any widgets, they are all just the same as the ones on main menu | 04:51 |
| Matthew- | then calendar/pics etc.. | 04:51 |
| Matthew- | ali1234: calendar widget | 04:51 |
| ali1234 | why have two icons to start phone? | 04:51 |
| ali1234 | i don't use the calendar | 04:51 |
| zerojay | So that you can do so quicker. | 04:51 |
| ali1234 | i don't use *any* calendar | 04:51 |
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| Matthew- | well I do. | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: widget != bookmark | 04:51 |
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| ali1234 | point being, i have yet to find a widget that is actually useful | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | widget has dynamic info content | 04:52 |
| zerojay | If you haven't found a widget useful, you aren't trying. | 04:52 |
| ali1234 | i installed a bunch of them | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: weather? | 04:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: tx/rx numbers? | 04:53 |
| zerojay | Personally, I love not needing to click through a bunch of menus to see stuff... it's right there on my desktop. | 04:53 |
| ali1234 | yeah the weather one was the closest to being useful, unfortunately it fails more often than it works | 04:53 |
| Matthew- | SpeedEvil: doesnt the weather drain the batt? | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: works like charm here | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | (foreca) | 04:54 |
| ali1234 | yeah it seems to depend on the info source | 04:54 |
| ali1234 | oh, not foreca, the other one | 04:54 |
| Matthew- | http://www.n900wallpapers.com/wallpaper/valley-of-the-gods-panorama | 04:54 |
| Caesium | OMWeather, I have that on my main desktop and it seems ok. | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | no - the weather drowns the bat (when heavy rain) | 04:55 |
| ali1234 | i found foreca to be terribly ugly and hard to read, too much small writing and misaligned icons | 04:55 |
| ali1234 | lets see if theres any new widgets since last time i looked | 04:56 |
| ali1234 | wow a battery level widget... how is that useful? | 04:56 |
| Caesium | Desktop Command Execution widget is one I need to have a look at, looks great | 04:56 |
| ali1234 | ... and another one | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | on heavy weather bats don't fly | 04:56 |
| zerojay | ali1234: How is that NOT useful? | 04:56 |
| Matthew- | I want some NYC wallpaper! :D | 04:56 |
| ali1234 | zerojay: battery level is right there is the system menu all the time | 04:57 |
| zerojay | ali1234: And with the widget you can see it without bothering with the system menu. | 04:57 |
| ali1234 | there's no way that you can display the desktop without seeing the battery level | 04:57 |
| zerojay | Sure there is. | 04:57 |
| ali1234 | any time the desktop widget is visible, the system menu will also be visible | 04:57 |
| zerojay | Eh... what? | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: ack | 04:58 |
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| zerojay | I'm starting to wonder if his N900's busted. | 04:58 |
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| Matthew- | http://www.n900wallpapers.com/wallpaper/guinness-loop | 04:58 |
| Matthew- | that's nice | 04:58 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves and yawns | 05:00 | |
| ali1234 | http://www.linux-magazine.com/var/linux_magazin/storage/images/media/linux-magazine-eng-us/images/news-images/plasma-widgets/378335-1-eng-US/Plasma-Widgets.jpg | 05:00 |
| ali1234 | notice that the battery level is visible | 05:00 |
| acidjazz | http://www.flickr.com/photos/7533997@N07/4313054756/sizes/l/ | 05:00 |
| ali1234 | wait.. plasma widgets on n900?? | 05:00 |
| acidjazz | dinner tyme | 05:00 |
| zerojay | ali1234: That's not the system menu. | 05:01 |
| ali1234 | oh. what is it then? | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: LOL | 05:01 |
| zerojay | system tray. | 05:01 |
| ali1234 | my point still stands. any time the desktop is visible, that thing is visible too | 05:01 |
| ali1234 | therefore, putting a battery widget on desktop is pointless | 05:01 |
| zerojay | well, that makes at least more sense. | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | re-ack | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | n8 | 05:02 |
| zerojay | unless that widget is giving more data... but then again, some people don't want battery in their tray. | 05:02 |
| zerojay | So that's probably the reason why that one was made. | 05:02 |
| ali1234 | *those two | 05:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.nickscipio.com/pod/2010/01/27/shut-up-and-drink-your-kool-aid/ - :) (not worksafe site - though the page is worksafe) | 05:04 |
| ali1234 | lol | 05:04 |
| ali1234 | gps-data-logger ... now this looks interesting | 05:06 |
| Matthew- | WoW | 05:07 |
| Matthew- | Aircrack-ng lol | 05:07 |
| Matthew- | already | 05:08 |
| Matthew- | n900 will be next IRC hacking tool | 05:08 |
| Matthew- | or a GUI in Visual Basic to track IPs | 05:08 |
| ali1234 | oh, it isn't a widget | 05:13 |
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| corecode | i'm wondering how my IRC infrastructure will evolve with the n900 | 05:14 |
| corecode | moving to xmpp and irc gateway didn't seem to work out | 05:14 |
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| * wiretapped has been meaning to try bitlbee with the irc telepathy connection mgr | 05:25 | |
| wiretapped | anybody here do that? | 05:25 |
| wiretapped | using irssi in screen works for now | 05:25 |
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| corecode | i was hoping for better usability when running everything through jabber | 05:28 |
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| cehteh | considering that jabber is a bloated XML based protocol i dont really expect it to improve anything | 05:33 |
| uhsf | XMPP rules the IM world! | 05:34 |
| cehteh | unfortunally | 05:34 |
| ljp | d | 05:36 |
| Proteous | irc+bitlbee == win | 05:36 |
| Proteous | I just irssi in a screen session though | 05:37 |
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| cehteh | xchat works fine on n900, with some config to make it look nicer | 05:39 |
| uhsf | nokia lost big points today for sending me my first defective device ever | 05:42 |
| uhsf | at this price point it's kinda hard to swallow | 05:42 |
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| cehteh | heh | 05:43 |
| cehteh | send it back and good | 05:43 |
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| ScribbleJ | Proteous, IRC+bitlbee+znc == the win ... | 05:59 |
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| pupnik_ | uae | 06:01 |
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| Matthew- | a good FTP client? | 06:08 |
| pupnik_ | lftp | 06:08 |
| Matthew- | is that testing or devel? | 06:08 |
| pupnik_ | dunnos | 06:09 |
| Matthew- | ok, pupnik_ is it for n900? | 06:09 |
| pupnik_ | yes | 06:10 |
| Matthew- | kk | 06:10 |
| Matthew- | lets look | 06:10 |
| Matthew- | pupnik_: how much free space uve got on rootfs btw? | 06:10 |
| pupnik_ | 18MB | 06:10 |
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| Matthew- | no lftp | 06:11 |
| Matthew- | ! | 06:11 |
| Matthew- | gftp | 06:11 |
| Matthew- | ;D | 06:11 |
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| pupnik_ | ty for reminder | 06:12 |
| Matthew- | :-) | 06:13 |
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| |R | anyone knows if using SIP through Fring goes through their servers? | 06:41 |
| |R | or is it just a normal VoIP client in that case...? | 06:42 |
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| Matthew- | hmmm | 06:44 |
| Matthew- | can you upload pics to picassa | 06:44 |
| pupnik_ | yes | 06:53 |
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| aspidites | in vgba how do I switch to fullscreen? ctrl+enter seems to have no effect | 08:02 |
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| pupnik_ | aspidites: i dont think you can | 08:10 |
| RST38h | pupnik: he can't? | 08:11 |
| RST38h | well, actually, he cannot, right... | 08:11 |
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| pupnik_ | pasuspender -- vgba -ds 3 -sync 20 -sound 48000 -shm -skip 66 Sword_of_Mana.gba | 08:17 |
| pupnik_ | blah | 08:17 |
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| pupnik_ | i dont get why ali1234 sees xrun with pulse. | 08:23 |
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| ali1234 | i see xrun because the emulator does not run at 100% speed | 08:24 |
| ali1234 | therefore it does not fill the buffer faster than it empties | 08:24 |
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| RST38h | correct | 08:27 |
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| pupnik_ | you know i was getting sound without dropouts with psx4all | 08:30 |
| pupnik_ | unless i hallucimember that | 08:30 |
| shamus | wow droped a full bar on the batrery meater in less then 4 or 5 hours just idaling | 08:30 |
| shamus | oh wifi is still on guss thats might explane it | 08:31 |
| pupnik_ | dropped battery meter idling | 08:33 |
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| MistaED | http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png :) | 08:36 |
| pupnik_ | probably the closest to win i ever got was fixing fceu stutter | 08:38 |
| pupnik_ | that was bad design clossed ovr with an expensive lowpass filter | 08:39 |
| red | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188345/windows_7_x64_free.jpg | 08:39 |
| red | sometimes it pays to be a student hehe :) | 08:39 |
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| pupnik_ | if i go to schools selling free crack they try to lock me up | 08:41 |
| RST38h | selling or giving away? | 08:42 |
| ifreq | acidjazz: yeah, took photo with macro was devastated :) | 08:43 |
| red | RST38h: I guess it's the little finger method | 08:43 |
| red | give something for free, and hook you up | 08:43 |
| red | but when it comes to IT students and M$ products I kinda think bad idea | 08:44 |
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| pupnik_ | well they would copy it anyway | 08:44 |
| pupnik_ | the problem is teaching OS concepts with it | 08:44 |
| RST38h | You cannot teach OS concepts with Windows | 08:45 |
| RST38h | You can run MS Office with it though and that is what everyone uses it for | 08:45 |
| red | I think our school has participated in that just for our CCNP students | 08:46 |
| red | so they can legally run their own copy of Windows whatever virtually when testing stuff | 08:46 |
| red | at school that is | 08:46 |
| RST38h | work. | 08:46 |
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| * RST38h does not understand what the problem is though. If MS wants to give away Windows, it has full rights to do so. | 08:47 | |
| red | No problem ^^ | 08:47 |
| RST38h | It will not make Windows any more suitable for tasks outside wordprocessing though. | 08:47 |
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| red | Just saying it won't increase their cashflow, which I imagine is the concept of "give for free so people get used to stuff" | 08:48 |
| red | ..and then want to use it after schools over or something. Problem is, every IT guy already knows their products and uses them or not, and is not likely to change behaviour based on this :) | 08:48 |
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| red | I could have gone hardcore and picked XNA license for some xbox programming hehe :) | 08:49 |
| ptman | I would not have windows if it weren't for msdn-aa | 08:51 |
| ptman | I was without windows for years | 08:51 |
| red | ptman: but would you buy one, even now? :) | 08:53 |
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| ptman | one could say I bought it | 08:53 |
| ptman | I paid ~20EUR for acm membership to get win7 | 08:54 |
| ptman | win7 is quite good | 08:54 |
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| red | I like it aswell | 09:00 |
| red | anyone know a program which would let me to use an ssh server with user and pass to tunnel a connection to another ssh server, for SFTP usage | 09:00 |
| ptman | umm, ssh? | 09:01 |
| shamus | ssh | 09:02 |
| doc|home | red: look up "ssh tunneling" :) | 09:02 |
| ptman | ssh -L 8022:secondserver:22 user@firstserver | 09:02 |
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| ptman | sftp -p 8022 localhost | 09:02 |
| red | doc|home: got winscp portable to function the way I wanted =) | 09:07 |
| red | use the normal version home but never realized the advanced check in the corner for more options heh | 09:07 |
| red | we need to connect to our school ssh and then open an ssh outside, cant do directly | 09:07 |
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| slonopotamus | morning | 09:22 |
| luke-jr | morning slonopotamus! | 09:22 |
| mece | mornin everyone | 09:23 |
| slonopotamus | it's quiet. too quiet. :) | 09:24 |
| mece | Dangerous when it's quiet... | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: everyone is afraid to say the truth | 09:24 |
| mece | It's out there. | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | it's in here! | 09:24 |
| slonopotamus | so. do we have n8x0 3d drivers yet? :) | 09:24 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: the truth is: you want to mail me your N900 | 09:25 |
| mece | ok so how the frak do I get a label background in an eventbox to be transparent in a cairo context? | 09:25 |
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| Xisdibik | is it really not possible to delete one event of a reoccuring event on the calender?? | 09:27 |
| slonopotamus | Xisdibik, afaik, no. | 09:28 |
| Xisdibik | no its not possible or no im wrong it is possible? :p | 09:28 |
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| slonopotamus | Xisdibik, impossible | 09:31 |
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| mece | has anyone spotted some sales figures for the N900 ? | 09:36 |
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| pupnik_ | yes | 09:37 |
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| mece | pupnik_, where? | 09:39 |
| mece | pupnik_, and what did they say? | 09:40 |
| pupnik_ | i didn't sai that I did | 09:40 |
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| Macer | ugh | 10:28 |
| Macer | have to change up my raid | 10:28 |
| Macer | finally got the damn thing empty :) | 10:28 |
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| Xisdibik | is anyone here using MfE instead of imap? | 10:47 |
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| crashanddie | dneary: I need your strength | 11:40 |
| dneary | crashanddie, It's yours | 11:40 |
| * dneary bestows superhuman strength on crashanddie | 11:41 | |
| Myrtti | oh god I hate bugs.maemo.org | 11:41 |
| crashanddie | dneary: donne moi la force de ne pas tuer la plupart des utilisateurs de tmo | 11:41 |
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| dneary | crashanddie, Je crois qu'il y a des francophones sur tmo aussi | 11:41 |
| JimiDini | Myrtti: server or content? ;) | 11:41 |
| Myrtti | JimiDini: searching for content | 11:42 |
| crashanddie | c'est pas ca le probleme, mais serieusement les conneries qu'ils sortent a la minute est absolument incroyable | 11:42 |
| JimiDini | Myrtti: ah… good-ol' bugzilla ui ;) | 11:42 |
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| Damion2 | oh wow a real soliloquy | 11:49 |
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| alterego | Hrm, using gstreamer and rendering to a GtkDrawingArea looks crap when you use the task switcher :( | 12:03 |
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| wazd | hello maemo | 12:12 |
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| dneary | crashanddie, Quels conneries en particulier? | 12:17 |
| dneary | hi wazd | 12:17 |
| crashanddie | dneary: bah juste le fait qu'ils critiquent les modos d'avoir balance quelques threads dans off-topic | 12:18 |
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| dneary | crashanddie, Lesquels? | 12:20 |
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| dneary | (faut que tu sache que je vais à Talk qd qqn m'indique un thread intéressant seulement) | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | dneary: pas vraiment interessant mais bon: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42581 | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | tu mattes le match entre federer et tsonga? | 12:21 |
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| dneary | nan au boulot | 12:22 |
| dneary | c koi le score? | 12:22 |
| crashanddie | first set for federer, 6-2 | 12:22 |
| crashanddie | second set, federer in lead, 2-1 (15-30) | 12:22 |
| inz | Do you need a scores app for maemo? | 12:23 |
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| inz | The score could move from left side to right side constantly for authenticity | 12:24 |
| jon1012 | tiens des francais | 12:24 |
| inz | "It's just like you were there" | 12:24 |
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| crashanddie | depends, if it only works for tennis, not much interest | 12:24 |
| crashanddie | however if you get something that would be able to work for most sports... | 12:24 |
| crashanddie | then you might have a magical app | 12:24 |
| inz | Well, I've ever only parsed the scores for finnish SM-Liiga and those of NHL | 12:25 |
| inz | !liiga | 12:25 |
| inz | Hmm, I'm broken :( | 12:25 |
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| crashanddie | jon1012: ni dneary ni moi sommes francais, il habite labas et moi j'ai vecu 10 ans en france -- maintenant j'habite a brisbane | 12:25 |
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| jon1012 | oki :) | 12:26 |
| dneary | jon1012, I'm a Paddy | 12:26 |
| jon1012 | paddy ? | 12:26 |
| dneary | crashanddie, Looking like it's heading to a 3 set defeat, or is it close? | 12:26 |
| dneary | jon1012, Irishman | 12:27 |
| crashanddie | not really, federer is just jogging around the court and not having too much trouble | 12:27 |
| crashanddie | but hey, tsonga surprised me more than once | 12:28 |
| crashanddie | even though he played a 5 setter last night until very late, and federer went to bed around 9PM | 12:28 |
| jon1012 | dneary: oh ok | 12:30 |
| crashanddie | jon1012: which means he has a funny accent whether he speaks english or french! | 12:31 |
| crashanddie | :D | 12:31 |
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| dneary | jon1012, Unlike our Belgian friend Anddie | 12:35 |
| crashanddie | oy, except for the irish accent, I've mastered nearly every accent there is :P | 12:36 |
| jon1012 | belgians have strange accents too :P | 12:36 |
| crashanddie | jon1012: i'm not your average belgian ;) | 12:37 |
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| jon1012 | hehe | 12:38 |
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| crashanddie | dneary: 2 first sets for federer, 6-2, 6-3 | 12:41 |
| Damion2 | ?gst-la | 12:41 |
| Damion2 | oops | 12:41 |
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| dneary | crashanddie, Looks like Tsonga's soon going to be Tsongone | 12:44 |
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| zaheerm | you guys are behind | 12:45 |
| zaheerm | he lost a while ago | 12:45 |
| * RST38h moos | 12:45 | |
| dneary | zaheerm, final score? | 12:45 |
| zaheerm | 3 sets to love | 12:45 |
| zaheerm | federer at home asleep already | 12:46 |
| zaheerm | 6-3 final set i believe | 12:46 |
| zaheerm | 6-2 even | 12:46 |
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| zaheerm | http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/8486561.stm | 12:46 |
| zaheerm | i was watching it since 8:30 | 12:46 |
| * GeneralAntilles yawns. | 12:46 | |
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| hrw | morning | 12:49 |
| Damion2 | = | 12:49 |
| RST38h | helo hrw | 12:49 |
| * alterego wonders if Nokia has done deals to stick N900 ads on any page with 'apple' or 'ipad' or 'iphone' etc. | 12:49 | |
| RST38h | is it? | 12:50 |
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| dneary | hi hrw | 12:53 |
| dneary | Going to FOSDEM? | 12:53 |
| hrw | yes | 12:58 |
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| hrw | dneary: you too? | 12:59 |
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| alterego | Well, work might be buying me an N900... | 13:00 |
| alterego | I demo'd an application I wrote in my lunch break yesterday, and they seem, well, very impressed. | 13:00 |
| alterego | They want me to finish it. But I had to give the N900 back to my brother. ^.^ | 13:00 |
| * alterego crosseds fingers. | 13:01 | |
| bfree | yippee, my first thing compiled for and run on the N900. just a simple single C file cli program (gcc -l crypto) but I used http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/armel/ rather then messing with that massive non-free sdk with a eula ;-) | 13:01 |
| hrw | alterego: what your app does? | 13:02 |
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| dneary | hrw, Yup | 13:02 |
| dneary | hrw, I'm involved in the embedded devroom | 13:02 |
| hrw | dneary: cool, have to meet then | 13:02 |
| hrw | dneary: where embedded room is this year? | 13:02 |
| alterego | hrw: it'll be sold, and to gov't bodies. So it will never be public. | 13:03 |
| dneary | hrw, Erm... one of the classrooms? | 13:03 |
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| Damion2 | I tried to play a video last night and it worked at first but then decided to lock my device up, screen went black and flashed slightly lit grey fullscreen and back to black about every second | 13:03 |
| dneary | The schedule's only just finalised. No OpenEmbedded presentatioons (no-one submitted one) | 13:03 |
| dneary | There are 2 or 3 Maemo presentations | 13:03 |
| Damion2 | nothing I did got any response, not Ctrl-BS not holding power for 30ish seconds, I had to use the battery | 13:03 |
| alterego | I work for a company who develop CCTV systems, it's basically a camera control client for the N900/maemo/mobile phones. | 13:03 |
| hrw | dneary: looks like same as last year | 13:04 |
| hrw | dneary: I mean room | 13:04 |
| alterego | It displays video sent over packet data and gives you full movement telemetry control. | 13:05 |
| dneary | hrw, Is it a good one? | 13:05 |
| _berto_ | http://bitsandpieces.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/imagesevolution2_small.jpg | 13:06 |
| sejo | if you come to FOSDEM join the beerevent! | 13:06 |
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| hrw | dneary: harder to reach but quite big | 13:06 |
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| crashanddie | dneary: 2 match points for federer | 13:07 |
| amigadave | dneary: will you have some free time at FOSDEM to talk about (developer) documentation? | 13:07 |
| crashanddie | tsonga just did a beautiful play | 13:07 |
| sejo | lameere is a good room | 13:07 |
| sejo | 500 seats | 13:07 |
| dneary | amigadave, Yes | 13:08 |
| dneary | amigadave, Good to see you here - can we have a chat after lunch? | 13:08 |
| crashanddie | federer wins, 3 sets to 0, 6-2, 6-3, 6-2 | 13:08 |
| amigadave | dneary: sure, i'll be around | 13:08 |
| TriztFromWork | silly question, any good way to do so that big file transfers and unarchive tar files won't make the n900 unresponsive? (the cpu load is 100% all the time and you can't do anything until it's finished with the file) | 13:08 |
| dneary | crashanddie, Get with the news - zeenix told us that 15 mins ago :) | 13:08 |
| dneary | amigadave, Great! | 13:08 |
| crashanddie | eh? | 13:08 |
| crashanddie | I'm looking at it live right now | 13:08 |
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| zaheerm | s/zeenix/zaheerm :P | 13:09 |
| sejo | zaheerm weren't you a gentoo dev at a certain time? | 13:09 |
| zaheerm | crashanddie, it finished a long time ago | 13:09 |
| zaheerm | sejo, yes | 13:09 |
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| crashanddie | zaheerm: so what am I looking at? | 13:09 |
| zaheerm | crashanddie, a delayed transmission | 13:10 |
| * crashanddie is confused | 13:10 | |
| zaheerm | i watched it live | 13:10 |
| Damion2 | has anyone else had the flashing screen lockup ? | 13:10 |
| sejo | Damion2: sorry no | 13:10 |
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| zaheerm | it finished about an hour ago | 13:11 |
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| zaheerm | sejo, i am still in #gentoo-desktop and #gentoo-media | 13:11 |
| sejo | zaheerm: cool | 13:11 |
| Damion2 | Sargun: re: "Since the N900 has both a FM receiver, and transmitter, can we use the receiver to find open channels?" | 13:11 |
| Damion2 | Sargun: that's genious | 13:11 |
| Damion2 | sadly the receiver insists on a pair of headphones for an aerial | 13:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Autoscanning is going to be slow and hit-n-miss anyway. | 13:16 |
| Damion2 | well it's a non starter due to needing headphones in my case, but I like not having to search myself | 13:17 |
| Damion2 | still the 108 hack might help, not been in the car for ages though, I have to pay to drive as I live within the congestion zone | 13:17 |
| * zerojay resumes posting to Maemo Eats! | 13:19 | |
| alterego | I was thinking you should select a frequency, and it makes sure it's not got anything on it before it selects it. | 13:20 |
| alterego | No need to scan. | 13:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, I've missed a lot of good ones lately. | 13:22 |
| zerojay | Same here, but I'm going to make up for it. | 13:23 |
| zerojay | Now that my replacement is here. | 13:23 |
| Damion2 | has anyone used the receiving SMS messages in RDS app ? | 13:23 |
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| Damion2 | people say not to accept updates when you enable the more test/dev repositories. But I can't remember if the apps needing updating are only available from those repositories, perhaps I should be letting them update? | 13:27 |
| Damion2 | I'll check details incase it's also pulling in loads of newer libs which will break stuff | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: you ought to be sleeping mate | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, just got up. | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | at 6? | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | what time is it? | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | 6:30 AM | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | djeezus | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | it's saturday mate | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Friday. . . . | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | oh | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Futureman | 13:27 |
| crashanddie | right | 13:27 |
| alterego | Damion2: I'd try and be safe and use the commandline for updating if you're using extras-devel, testing isn't so bad. | 13:28 |
| ifreq | 1:30 PM friday | 13:28 |
| crashanddie | zerojay: hello mate | 13:28 |
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| crashanddie | ifreq: 9:30PM friday... it'll be saturday very soon for me ;) | 13:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Damion2, disable them before you do your updates. | 13:29 |
| Damion2 | if I disable them then the update request goes away | 13:30 |
| Damion2 | well for some. I need a way to remember/know which were from extras-devel in the 1st place | 13:30 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: those "omfg off-topic hate abuse" users are getting the better part of me | 13:30 |
| zerojay | crashanddie: Yo. | 13:30 |
| alterego | Anyone have issues with Conversations and MSN?> It seems to be dropping a lot of incoming messages :( | 13:31 |
| crashanddie | zerojay: sup dog? | 13:31 |
| crashanddie | zerojay: long time no see | 13:31 |
| zerojay | crashanddie: Long time, no working N900. :) | 13:31 |
| crashanddie | so, since when do you need an n900 to get online? | 13:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, a small taste of what it feels like to be on the council. ;) | 13:32 |
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| zerojay | lol... I don't... been busy with other projects in the meantime such as my PS3 emulator setup which got released. | 13:32 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, geneven's been dogging my every word on Talk for the past 2 years. | 13:32 |
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| crashanddie | geneven? | 13:33 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: No exageration there. | 13:33 |
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| crashanddie | lol... | 13:33 |
| crashanddie | Community (17 viewing) ... Last post: "Please keep off" by CrashandDie | 13:33 |
| zerojay | I'm totally serious. This dude has a hard-on for Gen. | 13:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, the little troll that associates anybody providing leadership on maemo.org with communist dictatorships. | 13:34 |
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| crashanddie | you have those everywhere | 13:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | He's particularly tireless, though. | 13:34 |
| jebba | hey, you guys want all debian etch apps that compile uploaded to the builder? | 13:34 |
| crashanddie | I still believe that one suggestion that was made when OrangeBox was being particularly difficult was excellent | 13:35 |
| crashanddie | modify the forum so that a "banned" user can still browse, access and use the forum as normal | 13:35 |
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| crashanddie | he sees each and every post as anyone else | 13:35 |
| crashanddie | however, anyone else sees all but his posts | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, that's just cruel. | 13:35 |
| zerojay | blackholing him? Awesome. | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | effective though | 13:36 |
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| zerojay | It would take a while for him to realize too. | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | I'm guessing mods should be allowed to see his posts though | 13:36 |
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| crashanddie | if he turns good due to the lack of responses, he should be unbanned | 13:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, all the more incentive not to be a mod. ;) | 13:37 |
| crashanddie | I'm tempted to post a thread in General announcing that we've done it | 13:37 |
| crashanddie | and that all the following users have been added to the beta test: nobody will see their posts for the next month | 13:38 |
| zerojay | lol | 13:38 |
| crashanddie | {insert big list of vocal users} | 13:38 |
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| * GeneralAntilles notes that qgil's post about Maemo 6 said exactly nothing of value. | 13:38 | |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: where? | 13:38 |
| RST38h | General: It is his job to say things without saying anything of value. | 13:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=500474&postcount=286 | 13:39 |
| RST38h | General: Well, to me this sounds like "let us wait until Maemo6 SDK alpha and complain then" | 13:40 |
| RST38h | Which is fine with me personally. | 13:41 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: thx | 13:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I just can't believe that they're going to take their first push into the mainstream market (which has been huge) then PUNISH all of those users for it. | 13:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's just so, idiotic. . . . | 13:41 |
| RST38h | General: happened before. | 13:41 |
| crashanddie | not mainstream | 13:42 |
| RST38h | General: And even before the infamous Diablo/Fremantle shift: check Nokia's history of releasing S60e1, S60e2, S60e3, S60e3fp1, etc | 13:42 |
| crashanddie | there's a huge difference between punishing 28k n800 users | 13:42 |
| alterego | I reckon, m6 will be available for N900 | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, the N900 is a much more sizable release than any previous Maemo device. | 13:42 |
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| crashanddie | and punishing 243k n900 users | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yet they're screwing all of those users in less than a year. | 13:42 |
| alterego | Unfortunately, it'll probably feel like a downgrade to a lot of people; | 13:42 |
| RST38h | crash: Nokia has no problem punishing mainstream users, check history of S60 releases | 13:42 |
| zerojay | what's the package providing multiuser chat again? | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, your numbers suck. | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, 770 sold 50k units | 13:42 |
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| RST38h | The policy is "You want newer software => buy a new handset and make us some money" | 13:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | N800 sold 300k units by /August 2007/ | 13:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which was right as the price drop was hitting. | 13:43 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: don't care about the real numbers, just trying to draw a picture | 13:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, your picture sucks. | 13:43 |
| crashanddie | never been a good drawer | 13:43 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: That's pretty damn impressive any way you slice it. | 13:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, indeed. | 13:43 |
| hrw | RST38h: they still have 2-3 versions of s60 in new cellphones | 13:44 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: it stings more for normal users (like my brother) who took out a 18 month (worse for 24 month) contract) | 13:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, when you factor in the N800 and N810 price drops that's a lot of units. | 13:44 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I just halved the numbers... | 13:44 |
| hrw | RST38h: v3fp1, v3fp2, v5 | 13:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | hrw, S60 is a joke. | 13:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | hrw, Nokia isn't justified in translating S60's business practices to Maemo. | 13:44 |
| RST38h | hrw: Exactly | 13:44 |
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| RST38h | hrw: And these are not quite compatible | 13:44 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: so far it has more usefull apps then maemo5 has | 13:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | They should be appropriately crucified for attempting to do so. | 13:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | hrw, it's also been around for a million goddamn years. | 13:44 |
| RST38h | General: They are being themselves, not translating anything | 13:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | hrw, and been marketed, and produce in volume, etc. | 13:45 |
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| hrw | GeneralAntilles: sure | 13:45 |
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| crashanddie | lol... "This news update is brought to you by the Australian Open Ballkids." Newsreader: "A pedophile has been arrested earlier last week at the Australian Open games, police has announced" | 13:45 |
| RST38h | Anyway, I doubt it is Quim's decision to keep or break Maemo6 compatibility with N900, so taking shots at the messenger is not gonna help | 13:45 |
| crashanddie | I WONDER HOW THAT HAPPENED | 13:45 |
| RST38h | necrozoopedophile? | 13:46 |
| hrw | RST38h: there has to be someone who can be shot by community | 13:46 |
| crashanddie | hrw: thanks for volunteering | 13:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | hrw, they're hiding in the cathedral. | 13:46 |
| RST38h | hrw: If you shoot 'em all, who is gonna deliver the next Maemo? | 13:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | hrw, although I'm in favor of taking shots at Anssi on principle. | 13:47 |
| zaheerm | it's worse for symbian device purchasers | 13:47 |
| * RST38h agrees with General here | 13:47 | |
| Damion2 | what does 2H2010 mean ? | 13:47 |
| Damion2 | oh 2nd half | 13:47 |
| Damion2 | that's bollocks | 13:47 |
| zaheerm | they never got upgrades between s60v3 and v3fp1 or v3fp1 -> v3fp2 | 13:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damion2, Christmas. | 13:47 |
| zerojay | RST38h: Good work on the xchat update, btw. | 13:47 |
| Damion2 | well aer nokia famous for not slipping? | 13:47 |
| zaheerm | xmas announcement, shlves spring 2011? | 13:47 |
| Damion2 | zaheerm: yeah that sounds more likely | 13:48 |
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| hrw | GeneralAntilles: agreed | 13:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I really want to know who's behind it. | 13:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, my suspicion is that it's higher up than Ari. | 13:48 |
| Damion2 | which means we have about another year of n900 and I dont think nokia will no no work at all, I also don't see porting non multi touch apps between two builds is hard, if anything it's quite a trivial build rule, so supporting n900 for the next few years is likely | 13:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, but if it IS Ari. . . . | 13:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damion2, don't be naive. ;) | 13:49 |
| Damion2 | seriously though we'll almost certainly be able to compile M6 at least for a chroot within M5 and loads of apps should work | 13:49 |
| alterego | RST38h: taking shots at the messenger? HE didn't really deliver any kind of messaage though :P | 13:49 |
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| hrw | Damion2: maemo5 will get 1-2 updates and will get end of support in 2010 due to maemo6 device release | 13:50 |
| hrw | thats my opinion | 13:50 |
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| ali1234 | best hope is that M6 supports ofono, which means Mer will finally be able to make phone calls | 13:50 |
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| alterego | hrw: well, that's the pessimistic view. The poiint is,no one knows anything I doubt even they know yet. Hence the talk about the SDK's. | 13:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damion2, I expect Mer could provide effective support. | 13:51 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: it's not Ari | 13:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damion2, however, that doesn't help normal people. | 13:51 |
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| hrw | 770 was EOL after n800 release, n800 had support durin n810 life due to being same hw basically. and n8x0 got killed before n900 release even | 13:51 |
| alterego | Because nothing is concrete as far as functionality is concerned to them. They can't say if there's not going to be something fundamentally different. | 13:51 |
| Damion2 | normal people on contracts get upgraded every 12 months anyway | 13:51 |
| ali1234 | the thing about normal people is that they are totally OK with buying a new phone every year | 13:51 |
| alterego | They can't say anything about "well, we want to be able to release m6 for N900" because they just don't know yet. | 13:51 |
| hrw | Damion2: my phone contract is 2 years not year | 13:52 |
| Damion2 | most of the people I know don't pay for phones beyond the monthly fee and get a new phone roughly that frequently | 13:52 |
| Damion2 | hrw: where do you live? | 13:52 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: but it's not coming from above him either | 13:52 |
| alterego | Damion2: UK contracts seem to all be 18-24 months now .. | 13:52 |
| Damion2 | alterego: when did they start doing that? | 13:52 |
| hrw | Damion2: Poland | 13:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | hrw, funny thing is, N900 is going to be in the same situation with whatever's next. | 13:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Same damn hardware | 13:52 |
| alterego | Damion2: money? smartphones are a lot more expensive now realy. | 13:52 |
| Damion2 | hrw: they have phones in poland? We're all shown shows on telly where it's all black and white and you queue for potatoes | 13:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Except, oh wait, we're putting multitouch into SO MUCH of our UI that we can't support the N900. | 13:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Please, get the fuck out of here. | 13:53 |
| Damion2 | alterego: well the 9210 was 900quid, the e90 was 750quid and the n97 and n900 were 500quid | 13:53 |
| Damion2 | spot a pattern ? | 13:53 |
| crashanddie | Damion2: please don't assume your ignorance has spread to the rest of the crowd | 13:53 |
| Damion2 | hrw: I'm kidding. I work with many polish people here :) | 13:53 |
| alterego | Erm .. economy? | 13:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, the thing that keeps me from being more resigned about this is capacitive. | 13:54 |
| hrw | Damion2: but we drive proper side of road and know how to use 1 tap to get warm water ;D | 13:54 |
| * RST38h does not see too much usage for multitouch in ui | 13:54 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Even if I say "OK, N900 is going to be dropped like a ton of bricks, whatever, I'll just use the next thing." | 13:54 |
| hrw | RST38h: especially on small screen | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's capacitive, and I hate capacitive. | 13:54 |
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| Damion2 | hrw: some of us have single taps! but yeah my american friends wonder wtf we're doing with that | 13:54 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: sure, but what can they do with it? | 13:54 |
| RST38h | hrw: well I cant even think of scenarios | 13:55 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: sure, me too, a good reason to not get the next iteration ^.^ | 13:55 |
| Jaffa | hrw: Indeed. Even the much lauded pinch gesture is clumsy and fairly gimmicky on a 3.5" screen, IMHO | 13:55 |
| hrw | Damion2: thats because you visited normal countries to see how useful it is ;D | 13:55 |
| Damion2 | I'm not buying some shitty no keyboard non resistive iphone attempt | 13:55 |
| alterego | And from my exposure to the N900 over the past couple of weeks, well, I think it's a device that could last me a couple of years easily :) | 13:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, I expect their marketing people have decided that every operation will require two fingers on the screen. | 13:55 |
| visz | alterego, until you drop it on the floor | 13:55 |
| alterego | visz: price would have bottomed by that point ;) | 13:56 |
| RST38h | Oh wait | 13:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, worse than that. It's IS gimmicky. | 13:56 |
| bfree | in Ireland N900 contract is 18 months (and not available at all on the cheaper contracts only "special" data contracts) ... and I think the trend really started with the iPhone | 13:56 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: btw - do you know what eats ram on n900 that browser 'is unable to do anything due to low memory'? | 13:56 |
| RST38h | General: brilliant! | 13:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | hrw, dunno, haven't experienced it. | 13:56 |
| RST38h | ONE finger for SELECTION, TWO fingers for SCROLLING!!! | 13:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, add one finger to each. | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | three fingers to enter text! | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually | 13:56 |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: no, 21! | 13:56 |
| * RST38h has seen the light now. Expecting Nokia ninjas with axes any time now | 13:56 | |
| SpeedEvil | I have used 5 | 13:57 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwriter | 13:57 |
| alterego | I always thought multi-touch was just a bit of an enhancement for somethings, it's not a whole new unique way of interacting with the OS. Though, they might be thinking of doing something similar to MS surface type system interfacing. | 13:57 |
| SpeedEvil | the Agenda | 13:57 |
| RST38h | hrw: Can capacitive touchscreen really recognize the appendice you are touching it with? | 13:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | alterego, according to Nokia, you're wrong. | 13:57 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: according to Quim, they don't know ^.^ | 13:58 |
| hrw | RST38h: no idea | 13:58 |
| zaheerm | lol | 13:58 |
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| zash | RST38h: can it be calculated from size/shape? | 13:58 |
| zaheerm | they don't want you to know != they don't know | 13:58 |
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| alterego | RST38h: no, but with a front facing camera aswell ... :D | 13:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, by the way, did mgedmin bug you about FBReader's inability to sleep properly? | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | We need to figure out who is the key descisionmakers in nokia who might promote maemo 5 on n900 - and get them into an ultimate fighting program. | 13:59 |
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| Jaffa | alterego: Yeah, but they'll put in a front-facing camera and then turn it off in s/w because it's shit. | 13:59 |
| mgedmin | no, I forgot | 13:59 |
| RST38h | This leads us directly to the highly academic question of capacitance of your fingers compared to capacitance of your penis... | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I also forgot to bug you | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | (about that) | 13:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | zaheerm, indeed, it's the fact, they just don't want to come right out and say it. | 13:59 |
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| Damion2 | Jaffa: it looks fine in gtalk | 13:59 |
| RST38h | General: It does not sleep? Really? | 14:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, ! | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I really want a touch device that can work out which finger you touch it with. | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: it wakes every second | 14:00 |
| * RST38h keeps FBReader running for days, seems to work ok | 14:00 | |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: or is it half second | 14:00 |
| Jaffa | Damion2: That's the official reason it's not properly enablable from within a VoIP call | 14:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, what SpeedEvil said. | 14:00 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: May be the clock. Ok, iwill check | 14:00 |
| alterego | Jaffa: actually, I don't thinikm the front facing camera is as bad as I thought it was. | 14:00 |
| alterego | After streaming it to my laptop earlier this week. The quality looked quite resepctiable at QCIF | 14:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, ah, good thinking. | 14:00 |
| zaheerm | GeneralAntilles, that is to be expected though, don't see google or apple letting people know so much | 14:00 |
| alterego | Jaffa: I thought that was because the h264 DSP codec isn't finished. | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: were you in good light? | 14:01 |
| alterego | Well, that was my estimation ... | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: in sunlight - it's actually quite OK. | 14:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, yeah, that appears to be it. | 14:01 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: no, I'll admit it is a bit dark, but then the main camera seems a bit dark to me too ... | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: teh main camera however can get recognisable pictures in stupidly low light | 14:02 |
| alterego | Yeah, well, it seemed to cope "okay" going through a brightnessfilter. | 14:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | So the clock shouldn't update when the screen's off or it's in the background. | 14:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: or more trivially - every 30s | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | but the previous would be good too | 14:03 |
| zerojay | huh. Google's working perfectly over mail for exchange.. email too. | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Another minor issue has been it's hard to pop out the 'menu' button from fullscreen without turning page. | 14:04 |
| RST38h | General: You turn off the clock and it stops? | 14:05 |
| SpeedEvil | And the fullscreen button is annoying with portrait text upside down and touch-screen-paging - as it obscures the top-left of the text | 14:05 |
| crashanddie | LMAO, They're playing "The Core" | 14:06 |
| alterego | Heh, I bet the next tablet is an iPad like deevice. | 14:06 |
| alterego | Larger, and unable to make phone calls. | 14:06 |
| crashanddie | As long as they don't screw up the name so bad | 14:06 |
| alterego | Firefox devs have already disabled flash :P | 14:06 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, as far as I can tell by monitoring top for a minute or so. | 14:07 |
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| Damion2 | Jaffa: well before 1.1 the driver or something was awful. The mirror app makes it look dreadful, same with mplayer | 14:10 |
| Damion2 | however if you switch /dev/video1 and 0 around and run mirror the better camera also looks blotchy and awful | 14:10 |
| thresh | it was a bug in the driver, true | 14:10 |
| Damion2 | I suspect a lot is the various v4l2 ioctls against the device node | 14:10 |
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| Damion2 | the mirror isn't doing anything and whatever gtalk video is using makes it seem pretty okay | 14:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | mplayer on the main camera looks good IMO | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | very good | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video0 | 14:12 |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: because camera is good | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean WRT 'blocky' | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | the same with video1 looks bad. | 14:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | unless you're in the brightest light | 14:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video0:width=320:height=240 -vf eq=77:100,eq=10:100,eq=50:100,scale=160:120,denoise3d=8:6:22,eq=0:99 | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | - comedy night vision mode for the main cam | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | in low-light - you may need to press 3 or 4 to tune brightness | 14:14 |
| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: try comparing camera app and mplayer | 14:14 |
| plastun | hello! Is there any 'Web Uploader' to Extras as 'Uploader to extras-devel'? | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: you mean mirror/ | 14:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | haven't installed | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 14:15 |
| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: mplayer, I've just compared and there is a difference | 14:15 |
| * SpeedEvil is not properly awake | 14:15 | |
| Damion2 | let me try your 2nd line | 14:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | Damion2: that only works in very dark environments | 14:15 |
| dvoid | does ovi store use deb packages? or does it use some home grown stuff installed in a chroot environment or something? | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | or you might try knocking off a couple of the eq, lines at the start | 14:15 |
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| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: also the main camera has fewer artifacts in the 1st place too | 14:16 |
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| Damion2 | so less to go bad. Point is I'm not 100% convinced the camera is that awful, did Nokia intentionally pick a cheap crap? It seems more likely to be the same as in the n97 or somesuch | 14:17 |
| Damion2 | mirror makes both look awful, mplayer on the main cam is not as good as camera app so some software brightnest/contract effort has gone in to the code | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | VGA cameras are typically under a dollar | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | in volume | 14:17 |
| Damion2 | wow | 14:17 |
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| Damion2 | so why use shit? is this just still more kernel driver issues? | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | The spec is not as bad as the performance seems to be. | 14:18 |
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| hrw | Damion2: because nokia likes to use shitty chips | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | At least what is available as the spec | 14:18 |
| hrw | Damion2: my suspection is that they got few thousands of free samples as bonus when ordered other chips | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: because if you can save half a dollar and 30mm^3 in size on each unit... | 14:18 |
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| RST38h | Why everyone thinks that the camera is awful? | 14:19 |
| RST38h | It is as good as cell phone cameras come | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: the main cam? | 14:20 |
| alterego | RST38h: agreed. | 14:20 |
| RST38h | No it is not a replacement for your dedicated digital camera | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I don't think it's bad | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I think it's regrettably oversold on pixel count lies - but there is no escaping that. | 14:20 |
| RST38h | Uses tiny sensor and the optics are close to those of pinhole camera :) | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | the front cam I think is bad | 14:20 |
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| wazd | damn, I really want to shake hand of the maemo 5 theme architect | 14:20 |
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| crashanddie | first time I called godwin's law on tmo | 14:20 |
| RST38h | wazd: Maemo5 comes with two themes | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | and you can get better VGA cameras for around a couple of dollars. | 14:21 |
| RST38h | crash: So, who was the fascist this time? | 14:21 |
| crashanddie | mods | 14:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: I mean the whole theming algorythm | 14:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ah | 14:21 |
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| alterego | I'd quite like to look into maemo5 theming at some point/. | 14:21 |
| jaw_vvd | anyone know status on vsync/tearing issues on the N900? | 14:22 |
| alterego | Back on to the m6 support, tbh I'm more worried about them "locking down" the future devices. | 14:22 |
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| wazd | RST38h: actually his left foot cause he really did this magnificent job with it | 14:22 |
| alterego | I think the N900 will be the last great hacker dream device. And the next ones will be pushed into operator branding hell. | 14:22 |
| alterego | But seriously .. What a device :) | 14:24 |
| Milo- | cool, the turn by turn navigation works in maemo ovi maps, but it should have voice guiding | 14:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, gotta love Benny. :rolleyes: | 14:24 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: I don't know if you replied yesterday. And I feel really bad for bugging you .. But .. device queue news? Is there somewhere I should be looking to stay up to date. You always seem to have your finger on the pulse ;) | 14:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, Quim hasn't added anything new since he said he was getting devices. | 14:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: cause after all these bugs I have more annoyance than pleasure of making themes for maemo 5 | 14:25 |
| bfree | alterego: I'm more worried about what they have "locked down" on the N900. if it was fully Free who would care about when nokia ends their "support" | 14:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: I am sure the right foot has been working on Modest then | 14:25 |
| * SpeedEvil wants docs on cams. | 14:25 | |
| crashanddie | I want qgil to spend more time in IRC | 14:26 |
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| crashanddie | I don't feel he's a community manager anymore | 14:26 |
| alterego | bfree: there's nothing that's locked down on the N900, ass long as we continue to use their kernel. We have full access to all the system. | 14:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, he's prioritized on other stuff. | 14:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, the council picked up a lot of his duties. | 14:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I'd like to have a more dedicated community manager position at Nokia. | 14:26 |
| crashanddie | he's barely involved in most topics, spends most time in developer or chess threads, and that's right about it | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: not really. there are undocumented constants and stuff in some areas. | 14:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I'm a bit worried that some of those idiots on Talk were the source of that. | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: or at least I haven't found docs. For example - the camera specs | 14:27 |
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| alterego | SpeedEvil: sure, but that's the fun of investigation. development would be so boring if we didn't have to figure stuff out ourselves and hack it :) | 14:27 |
| * Jaffa is kinda glad the council don't seem to be running with his suggestions - gives me a platform to run with (qgil's duties -> council -> ???) | 14:27 | |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, maybe the whole "Nokia should keep its hands off the community" | 14:27 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: well, the community is slowly losing some of the most influential people it had | 14:28 |
| wazd | Seriously, is there still a vacancy for UI designer at Maemo Team? | 14:28 |
| crashanddie | wazd: unless you're prepared to move to Finland, don't bother applying | 14:28 |
| wazd | crashanddie: well, why not? :) | 14:29 |
| crashanddie | wazd: who at nokia do you know? | 14:29 |
| wazd | crashanddie: mm, Ed Bartosh, Timofey Turenko | 14:30 |
| wazd | Eero :D | 14:30 |
| crashanddie | wazd: call them, get the name of the manager of the UI team, make a nice cover letter explaining you're a highly motivated individual, and ask your contacts to organise a lunch with the guy | 14:30 |
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| alterego | crashanddie: that's genius :) | 14:31 |
| wazd | crashanddie: sounds like a plan :D | 14:31 |
| crashanddie | if you already know said manager, fly over and have lunch with him, and discuss the position, be open about the fact you're willing to relocate, and be open about the fact you know the position is open and whatnot | 14:31 |
| crashanddie | you'd be amazed how much can be achieved by a simple phone call or a lunch | 14:31 |
| thresh | but hey it's Finland | 14:31 |
| thresh | booooring country | 14:31 |
| Milo- | thresh doe | 14:32 |
| Milo- | erm | 14:32 |
| Milo- | die | 14:32 |
| crashanddie | well, wazd is in Russia, so more like an upgrade than a downgrade | 14:32 |
| alterego | wazd: where's your home now? | 14:32 |
| thresh | at least it's not boring here | 14:32 |
| thresh | :) | 14:32 |
| alterego | Ah, hah | 14:32 |
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| TomaszD | GeneralAntilles, hi, how's that cloak coming along? :) | 14:32 |
| wazd | I'm pretty bored here :D | 14:32 |
| thresh | wazd: finished the uni? | 14:32 |
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| Milo- | nothing boring about finland | 14:32 |
| thresh | except living there | 14:33 |
| Milo- | it is very exciting to travel using public transportation | 14:33 |
| TomaszD | wazd, make a beautiful icon for Extra Decoders Support then, 48x48px transparent, black background compatible | 14:33 |
| TomaszD | :) | 14:33 |
| crashanddie | wazd: I told my manager I was bored in my current job, and that I didn't get along so well with the new tech lead, 2 months later and now I'm in Australia, relocation paid by the company, and a brand new job | 14:33 |
| Shadikka | How is Finland boring? :P | 14:33 |
| Milo- | you can never know if you will arrive late, or if you get stabbed while sitting | 14:33 |
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| thresh | it is ultimately boring | 14:33 |
| PaulFertser | crashanddie: why do you think moving to FI from RU is an upgrade? | 14:34 |
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| crashanddie | for someone who wants to be a designer and is interested in mobile? | 14:34 |
| thresh | haha | 14:34 |
| thresh | i work in a mobile company | 14:34 |
| thresh | and we do need designers too from time to time ;P | 14:34 |
| Milo- | cool, the auto brightness works 8D | 14:35 |
| wazd | thresh: not quite, but I don't think engineer grade will make much sense in design field :P | 14:35 |
| thresh | wazd: it will. | 14:35 |
| crashanddie | there's no major mobile company in russia, the whole technological hub is in europe (compared to russia), it's a much better idea to get closer to europe than remain in russia | 14:35 |
| Milo- | though, inversed | 14:35 |
| crashanddie | PaulFertser: ^ | 14:35 |
| wazd | thresh: but again, I haven't got enough money to pay the bribe for exam so I quit | 14:36 |
| wazd | thresh: it's russia, you know :) | 14:36 |
| PaulFertser | crashanddie: to work for mobile companies? Hm... Well, for someone who wants to be a designer of silly end-user interfaces... | 14:36 |
| crashanddie | career wise it's still a better plan | 14:36 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: me? :P | 14:36 |
| thresh | so either that's eletrotechnics, or i dunno | 14:37 |
| thresh | electro | 14:37 |
| crashanddie | you're better off being able to meet people rather than emailing them | 14:37 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: but really, i doubt nokia will allow you to do something you really want. Usually managers like stupid interfaces because they assume their users are stupid :| | 14:38 |
| thresh | that's true | 14:38 |
| thresh | they are | 14:38 |
| PaulFertser | Reality sucks | 14:39 |
| PaulFertser | Living here it's easier to ignore this fact ;) | 14:39 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: what's the point of hiring a man to design UI's and not allowing to do it the same time? :) | 14:39 |
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| wazd | PaulFertser: Most users are stupid - that's true | 14:40 |
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| wazd | PaulFertser: but there is a difference between "stupid" UI and "simple" UI | 14:40 |
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| PaulFertser | wazd: i do not remember seeing a simple UI that allowed me to be fast and precise. I guess it's mutually exclusive. Either it gives you power or it's simple. | 14:41 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: I don't think so | 14:42 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: got a counter-example? | 14:43 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: Look at the office Ribbon concept - it's really flexible and functional, but nice looking same time | 14:43 |
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| lcuk | PaulFertser, you are mixing up configurability - its entirely possible to use a simple stylus stroke to fly a virtual plane | 14:43 |
| PaulFertser | What's ribbon? The new UI in MSO? I do not see how to use MSO productively for almost any kind of task. I've written my papers with LaTeX, you know. | 14:43 |
| PaulFertser | lcuk: if you want to fly it cool, you need _many_ controls. | 14:44 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: http://www.prof-uis.com/img/elegantribbon/tour/vista-glass.png | 14:45 |
| lcuk | PaulFertser, use old style joysticks with only a few buttons and things. your assumed complexity (gimp/blender etc) isnt needed | 14:45 |
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| wazd | or better this: http://clintc.officeisp.net/Blogs/2006/17%20-%20Ribbon%20UI/Home.JPG | 14:46 |
| crashanddie | PaulFertser: blender | 14:46 |
| bfree | alterego: to me using their kernel is not a long term option, for one thing security vulnerabilities do happen in the kernel. and what about the phone and power management code. as long as you are beholden to Nokia for updates to components required to sanely use the device I think complaints are valid about them dropping support. | 14:47 |
| PaulFertser | lcuk: you need manual control for the thrust, for the flaps, for airbrakes, steering, rudder, trimmers for everything etc etc | 14:48 |
| PaulFertser | lcuk: for efficient operation | 14:48 |
| red | http://i48.tinypic.com/2vwi80i.jpg | 14:49 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: Planes have as good UI as it's possible | 14:50 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: ribbon ui is questionable. I can't see a usecase for that. For the actions i need to perform often i use shortcuts. For others rare actions i do not want to waste screen estate. | 14:51 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: you can close any block | 14:51 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: planes do have many controls, they're not supposed to be operable by morons. While nokia assumes their customers do not want to learn shortcuts even for the most important actions. | 14:52 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: and we're talking about newbie users, that don't use shortcuts | 14:52 |
| hrw | red: http://kyon.pl/static/img/remiq.net_15101.jpg | 14:52 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: after closing unneeded blocks the interface effectively becomes classic menu+small toolbar. | 14:52 |
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| wazd | PaulFertser: you're starting to troll btw :) | 14:52 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: newbie should learn shortcuts for the actions they do anyway? | 14:53 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: i'm never trolling. | 14:53 |
| PaulFertser | If i ever do something simiral, that's unintentional. | 14:53 |
| PaulFertser | It's just the way i think and talk. | 14:53 |
| PaulFertser | Always | 14:53 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: cause we're talking bout casual users and you say that "I use shortcuts" | 14:53 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: any non-moron uses shortcuts. | 14:54 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: troll again :D | 14:54 |
| PaulFertser | It's not. I know that. | 14:54 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: I don't know any possible shortcut for Photoshop | 14:54 |
| PaulFertser | Because you do not use it often. | 14:54 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: Cause there are hundreds | 14:54 |
| tank-man | ctrl+s save :) | 14:54 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: so I guess I'm a moron | 14:55 |
| Damion2 | ctrl-s is stop tty output | 14:55 |
| glass_ | once you learn more than 15+ shortcuts you can't say that it's casual | 14:55 |
| glass_ | it's like dating a woman for 30 years casually | 14:55 |
| wazd | glass_: I'm not a casual user indeed | 14:55 |
| crashanddie | glass_: that's called win | 14:55 |
| crashanddie | having a fuckbuddy for over 30 years? | 14:55 |
| glass_ | not necessarely win | 14:55 |
| glass_ | read a book or two | 14:55 |
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| PaulFertser | wazd: are you happy using photoshop's UI? It's more flexible and sane than the latest MSO's. | 14:56 |
| glass_ | for start. the fuckbuddy would at least be 30 years older and still just a fuckbuddy | 14:56 |
| crashanddie | you're not married are you? | 14:56 |
| glass_ | nope | 14:56 |
| crashanddie | it shows :D | 14:57 |
| glass_ | but i envision myself havin sex with young girls when i'm old if i'm not married when i'm old | 14:57 |
| crashanddie | you keep working on that ;) | 14:58 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: It's old | 14:58 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: have you used AutoCAD btw? It has very fast and efficient command line, many cool shortcuts and a lisp dialect. That's what i call a professional tool. | 14:58 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: and it's old cause it's for pro's | 14:58 |
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| glass_ | but people i've known who've been very hyped up on having a fuckbuddy have done, hmm, not so well afterwards mostly | 14:58 |
| ali1234 | what's MSO stand for? | 14:59 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: msoffice | 14:59 |
| ali1234 | ohgodno | 14:59 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: and MSO UI is really flexible and intuitive btw | 14:59 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: wazd is excited about its UI somehow... | 14:59 |
| Damion2 | glass_: you'll have easier access to young girls if you're married with kids at school | 14:59 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: You've never used it, how can you judge | 14:59 |
| wazd | PaulFertser: troll again | 14:59 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: i did use it a little. | 14:59 |
| wazd | I quit | 14:59 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: but it's of no use for my purposes, honestly | 14:59 |
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| glass_ | Damion2: then it wouldn't be gentleman-like anymore | 15:00 |
| PaulFertser | wazd: it can't number figures and tables and formulas... | 15:00 |
| ali1234 | having a "flexible and intuitive" user interface is usually an indication that the program has no really unique functionality | 15:00 |
| ali1234 | all the actually good programs out there have terrible UIs | 15:00 |
| wazd | ali1234: pfff | 15:01 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: is emacs's UI terrible? I thought it's kind of logical and efficient... | 15:01 |
| Damion2 | glass_: obviously they have to be over the legal age! 12 in loads of europe, 9 in yeman, 18 in the united states, land of the "free" ;) | 15:01 |
| wazd | ali1234: I wouldn't even say how wrong you are | 15:01 |
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| ali1234 | hahaha, yes, emacs UI is appalingly bad, the only worse text editors are vi and ed | 15:01 |
| lcuk | wazd, he does have a point. | 15:01 |
| ali1234 | UI wise that is, not to say they are bad software | 15:01 |
| wazd | lcuk: absolutely not | 15:01 |
| ali1234 | but the UI is the exact opposite of intuitive | 15:01 |
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| adeus | I use emacs on my device | 15:02 |
| lcuk | wazd, the most interesting program *for you* at the moment in the theme designer, its not simple to use | 15:02 |
| lcuk | and you need high levels of skill to make themes | 15:02 |
| lcuk | (yes, im rubbing your halo) | 15:02 |
| ali1234 | if you have any idea what you are actually trying to achieve, "inuitive" UIs nearly always just get in the way | 15:03 |
| wazd | lcuk: I don't use theme designer, I use PS | 15:03 |
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| lcuk | ps can output themes now? | 15:04 |
| ali1234 | i bet it can, with imageready | 15:04 |
| wazd | lcuk: It can output .png file :) | 15:04 |
| ali1234 | it probably isn't intuitive at all though | 15:04 |
| ali1234 | i don't know how themes work though, is it lots of small files, or one big one? | 15:04 |
| crashanddie | it's just creating an image, then slicing it up | 15:04 |
| crashanddie | no? | 15:04 |
| wazd | lcuk: then I use MADDE | 15:04 |
| wazd | crashanddie: sure | 15:05 |
| ali1234 | crashanddie: yeah, imageready does the "slicing up" part | 15:05 |
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| lcuk | ok, here is theme source code, there is no intuitive ui to handle that correctly http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2240466/Maemo/Maemo.png | 15:05 |
| crashanddie | so PS is as good as any tool to create the theme | 15:05 |
| wazd | ali1234: MADDE does it, along with packaging | 15:05 |
| PaulFertser | ali1234: in my experience intuitive UI is almost always ineffective once you try to start being a "power user" of it. | 15:05 |
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| Damion2 | .- | 15:06 |
| ali1234 | i don't disagree at all | 15:06 |
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| wazd | lcuk: that's not the whole theme | 15:06 |
| wazd | lcuk: far from it | 15:06 |
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| * MohammadAG hit full root | 15:06 | |
| ali1234 | the photoshop killer feature is not the UI (dispite what the gimp haters say) - it is the fact it is integrated with all the other adobe suite | 15:06 |
| wazd | lcuk: it's like showing a car's body and say "that's a car" | 15:06 |
| ali1234 | in fact even photoshop developers admit the UI is not up to scratch, with too many different "new and more intuitive than ever before" widgets cluttering it up | 15:07 |
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| crashanddie | wazd & lcuk: THAT'S A CAR: http://richtigteuer.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/maserati_quattroporte_sport_gt_s_1.jpg | 15:09 |
| wazd | crashanddie: that's an image of the car :P | 15:09 |
| crashanddie | muggenzifter | 15:10 |
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| wazd | of a car with funny face btw :) | 15:10 |
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| crashanddie | wazd: most beautiful car in the world ;) (in my mind) | 15:14 |
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| Damion2 | looks a lot like what Jaguar produce | 15:15 |
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| _berto_ | gitorious is down | 15:16 |
| _berto_ | the error message is "Guru meditation" | 15:16 |
| adeus | I just cloned my stuff from there | 15:16 |
| juhovh | that's the old Amiga joke | 15:16 |
| adeus | maybe it was too much | 15:17 |
| lcuk | wazd - what would be the ideal ui to make the theme designer | 15:17 |
| _berto_ | I'm sure amigadave knows what that is | 15:17 |
| lcuk | so you dont have to use other outside tools | 15:17 |
| * lcuk waves @ jonnylamb | 15:17 | |
| jonnylamb | So, is there any reason the extras fremantle builder isn't offering PR1.1 packages? | 15:18 |
| jonnylamb | For example, https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/telepathy-haze_0.3.3-1maemo0/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt (PR1.1 has tp-glib 0.8.1). | 15:18 |
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| wazd | lcuk: Carbide.UI | 15:18 |
| crashanddie | wazd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgcUI8gnvtg | 15:19 |
| jonnylamb | It *used* to, like https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/telepathy-salut_0.3.10-1/armel.root.log.OK.txt | 15:19 |
| crashanddie | wazd: it's just splendid design | 15:19 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, is jonnylamb's problem explained anywhere? | 15:19 |
| hrw | jonnylamb: it was decided that maemo5 sdk will be Pr1.0 one for whole eternity | 15:19 |
| frals | think its on -devel ML, they downgraded builder | 15:19 |
| wazd | crashanddie: yeah, looks cool | 15:20 |
| wazd | crashanddie: face reminds me BMW 6 somehow | 15:20 |
| timeless_mbp | cool | 15:20 |
| wazd | crashanddie: don't know why exactly | 15:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | my script can now digest stuff | 15:21 |
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| tybollt | my n900 is likely busted. fricken sound issues again :-/ | 15:21 |
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| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: it's called a stomach | 15:23 |
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| lcuk | gitorious is down! | 15:29 |
| * lcuk runs round in circles pulling hair out | 15:29 | |
| tybollt | you're missing the arm flapping and the random yelling... :) | 15:30 |
| * lcuk flaps arms, pressed fire alarm button and jumps out of window | 15:31 | |
| slonopotamus | :D | 15:31 |
| tybollt | :-D | 15:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | <sp3000> wow, starting to sound like a Nokia affiliated service | 15:34 |
| wazd | wrong | 15:35 |
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| wazd | you shoud pull the table on the side, take cover behind it and scream "GITORIOUS DOWN!, NEED BACKUP!" | 15:35 |
| Damion2 | gitorious sounds worryingly close to cli....s | 15:36 |
| Damion2 | I suspect that's deliberate | 15:36 |
| * lcuk climbs back up the building, in the window, heaves a table onto its side and feebly mutters "gitorious down, nee...... | 15:36 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, Maserati?! | 15:38 |
| crashanddie | aye | 15:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, congratulations, any present and future opinions you have about cars are now voided. :P | 15:38 |
| lcuk | timeless, whats the url for your repo .install script - ill put the packages onto my other test machine | 15:38 |
| zash | wasn't git supposed to be distributed? | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: they're good cars, very reliable, look good, and are reasonably priced | 15:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maserati is the ultimate combination of luxury and sports car compromise fail. | 15:39 |
| thresh | except that you cant drive it on most of roads | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | what the hell kind of statement is that? | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | thresh: that is probably true | 15:40 |
| tybollt | heh | 15:40 |
| crashanddie | thresh: if you live in papua new guinea | 15:40 |
| thresh | i actually almost do | 15:40 |
| tybollt | missus says when the volvo kicks the buckit she'll opt for a maserati :) | 15:40 |
| * thresh shares the country with wazd | 15:40 | |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, it's a bad compromise between the two. Too much a sports car to match Mercedes for luxury, too much a luxury car to match BMW or Porsche for sport. | 15:41 |
| frals | lcuk: gitorious is up here ;o | 15:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | TomaszD, hush. Some people on the list have been waiting since early December. :P | 15:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | TomaszD, supposedly X-Fade is going to poke Freenode today. ;) | 15:41 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: mercedes provides the same kind of luxury as you get in a dentist's office. BMW only provides sport if you're a banker or wear sunglasses on a rainy day, and porsche has made some of the greatest cars over the years | 15:43 |
| TomaszD | GeneralAntilles, when I got this unaffiliated cloak a few years ago, I only had to wait a few minutes :P | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I didn't say it was the best car in the world, I said it was my favourite car in the world, huge difference | 15:43 |
| adeus | gitorious is alive again | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, my two most favorite cars: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/super-cars-imports-india/116152d1238012863-restoration-project-my-1989-bmw-e30-316i-16.jpg http://www.cargurus.com/images/c6495/pic-61301.jpeg | 15:43 |
| Damion2 | what about the dacier sandero ? | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: same as people marrying a specific chic. I might think she's but-ugly, and someone else will love her ;) | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | TomaszD, currently you're waiting on X-Fade to finish putting out fires. :) | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | TomaszD, besides, I waited 18 months for my freaking cloak. | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | Damion2: if you're going to quote top gear, at least make sure you know the actual make of the car, it's dacia | 15:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since that's how long it took Freenode to process the group contact form. | 15:44 |
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| TomaszD | GeneralAntilles, next thing you tell me is to get off your lawn ;) | 15:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | TomaszD, I spent a year on the council and they managed to process it a month after I left. | 15:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | TomaszD, get off my lawn! | 15:44 |
| * TomaszD gets off GeneralAntilles' lawn... | 15:44 | |
| amigadave | _berto_: guru meditation, ah the memories :) | 15:44 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles | 15:45 | |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, oh, and quite possibly http://www.italiancarlinks.com/Lancia.jpg | 15:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Although it's AWD . . . | 15:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | OP WARS! | 15:45 |
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| crashanddie | ah crap, cs pms you xD | 15:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, what theme is that orange one? | 15:46 |
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| Damion2 | crashanddie: paedant, I was just doing it phonetically as I cba to look it up | 15:47 |
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| crashanddie | pedant | 15:47 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: maemo.org I guess | 15:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, is it your work, though? | 15:50 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: no, AndrewFBlack's | 15:51 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: and nokia's | 15:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, ah, newer than the one in Extras? looks different. | 15:51 |
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| AndrewFBlack | I hear my naem | 15:51 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: seriously, I don't know | 15:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, lol, OK then. | 15:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles likes it. | 15:52 | |
| Damion2 | I was also going to spell phonetically incorrectly, probably phonetically. Nothing gets by you :) | 15:52 |
| * crashanddie looks at the "Are there Maemo viruses" and shoots himself | 15:52 | |
| AndrewFBlack | GeneralAntilles, what orange theme? | 15:53 |
| wazd | AndrewFBlack: if you know maemo 5 theme architect btw - thank him for me please | 15:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, think it was (at least partially) tigert. | 15:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I like the new Tegra thread. | 15:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hooray NVIDIA fanboys. | 15:54 |
| anpr | heya | 15:54 |
| anpr | sup guys ? | 15:54 |
| AndrewFBlack | wazd, joking or for real lol? | 15:54 |
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| AndrewFBlack | What theme is GeneralAntilles talking about? | 15:55 |
| wazd | AndrewFBlack: for real ofcourse | 15:55 |
| wazd | AndrewFBlack: http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6596&stc=1&d=1264754229 <- do you know how to fix this? | 15:56 |
| AndrewFBlack | you mean the dark color? | 15:56 |
| wazd | AndrewFBlack: yep | 15:56 |
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| AndrewFBlack | wazd, just going to have to change the color on template if you want I can take a minute and find which on that is on template | 15:57 |
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| wazd | AndrewFBlack: I don't think that you'll find it | 15:58 |
| wazd | AndrewFBlack: I think it's hardcoded | 15:58 |
| AndrewFBlack | wazd, its not yours looks red to me and mine is black | 15:58 |
| wazd | it's kinda brown | 15:59 |
| AndrewFBlack | wazd, I really wish there was more color settings | 15:59 |
| AndrewFBlack | btw you still using theme maker? | 16:00 |
| wazd | AndrewFBlack: nope | 16:00 |
| AndrewFBlack | wazd, k me either | 16:00 |
| AndrewFBlack | I´ve goten several PMs on t.m.o in the last few weeks that basiclly say my old themes looked like crap but my new ones look really good... I guess I take that as a good thing lol | 16:01 |
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| wazd | AndrewFBlack: when a theme architect is choosing same color for both text on dark background and text on bright background - I have only one PM in my head | 16:02 |
| wazd | and a shadow btw | 16:02 |
| dneary | amigadave, About? | 16:03 |
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| amigadave | dneary: yep | 16:14 |
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| amigadave | dneary: what should we do about the Extras consolidation, more information for developers like the suggestion on the mailing list? | 16:16 |
| AndrewFBlack | btw is extras building themes right again yet? | 16:16 |
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| dneary | I think there's a need for two distinct pages - one for users who want to add repositories and get extra apps, and one for users who want to distribute applicatiobns | 16:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | AndrewFBlack, Marina got built yesterday. | 16:17 |
| dneary | And probably one more for "something's wrong, how can I figure out what, and get it fixed?" which will need Niels to be a little less busy so that we can quiz him | 16:18 |
| AndrewFBlack | ok | 16:19 |
| amigadave | sounds good, so we should split the pages and add a developers and users category to each? | 16:19 |
| amigadave | maybe even move the developer information to packaging | 16:19 |
| odin_ | I have setup a scratchbox host-gcc target, but it hasn't installed any packages (not even libc) | 16:22 |
| odin_ | but when I did the same on freemoe it did install basic dpkgs | 16:22 |
| dneary | amigadave, What do you think about separating "building & packaging" from "uploading and distributing"? | 16:23 |
| dneary | I think I'm going to have to port an application to Maemo & try to go through the Extras process to see the problems people are having | 16:23 |
| amigadave | dneary: good idea, Debian packaging is a topic in and of itself | 16:23 |
| dneary | I see so many fremantle extras builder issues, there's obviously some problems there | 16:24 |
| amigadave | uploading is simple, the promotion process is currently a bit poorly-documented | 16:24 |
| dneary | amigadave, The Packaging page is pretty good now | 16:24 |
| dneary | And links to all the right sources | 16:24 |
| amigadave | yeah, it's coming along :) | 16:24 |
| dneary | It's a merge of two pages | 16:24 |
| amigadave | i saw your edits, thanks | 16:24 |
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| dneary | I was going to work on renaming all the pages under PyMaemo not to use CamelCase and update the FOSDEM page with the latest info this afternoon, but I saw all the edits you've been doing the last couple of days, and wanted to let you know about a kind of TODO list for the wiki at "Maemowiki Action Group" | 16:26 |
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| dneary | Also - I've been thinking since the chat I had with Titta this week that it would be a good idea for me/us to start using Bugzilla for wiki & documentation bugs more than we have been | 16:27 |
| amigadave | dneary: yep, i have seen it, and i have fixed a few minor issues and generally adding links | 16:27 |
| amigadave | dneary: agreed, much easier to track stuff in bugzilla | 16:27 |
| thopiekar | hi | 16:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'moved to brainstorm' - it solves everything! | 16:28 |
| thopiekar | does anyone of you whether its possible to intregrate pictures for example for pyqt4 ui's into the code? | 16:28 |
| amigadave | i see categorisation of pages as a priority, as it helps a lot with searching for related information | 16:28 |
| dneary | amigadave, Yeah - I should keep that better updated :) | 16:31 |
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| dneary | Also better portal pages | 16:31 |
| lizardo | dneary: sounds like a very good idea | 16:31 |
| dneary | Looking at orphaned pages and trying to figure out where they should be linked helps | 16:31 |
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| RST38h | Developer documentation pages are still a mess btw | 16:31 |
| dneary | lizardo, Which one? All my ideas are very good ;) | 16:32 |
| RST38h | ehlo Arkenoi | 16:32 |
| amigadave | yeah, there are lots of pages that are orphans or only linked from one page | 16:32 |
| lizardo | dneary: BTW, is there some page documenting the "writing conventions" you have been fixing on the wiki? | 16:32 |
| amigadave | RST38h: any specifics, or just a general comment? :) | 16:32 |
| lizardo | dneary: because I'd like to write well formatted wiki pages from start :) | 16:32 |
| dneary | lizardo, Specifically? The Maemowiki Action Group page has some guidelines, as does the "Contributing to the wiki" page linked at the top of every edit page | 16:33 |
| lizardo | dneary: sorry, I was talking specifically about the snippet where you mentioned "PyMaemo" (which hilighted my xchat) :) | 16:33 |
| dneary | lizardo, Ah | 16:33 |
| lizardo | dneary: I mean, things like "do not use camel case" or how to reference internal pages | 16:33 |
| dneary | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemowiki_Action_Group#Maemo_Wiki_Principles | 16:33 |
| lizardo | dneary: thanks, that was what I need :) | 16:34 |
| dneary | http://wiki.maemo.org/Contributing_to_the_wiki | 16:34 |
| dneary | (the Style section) | 16:34 |
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| dneary | In short, only proper nouns get a capital in a wiki page name | 16:35 |
| dneary | amigadave, Do you know if there's a special page to identify all redirect errors? | 16:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | dneary, "errors"? | 16:35 |
| amigadave | dneary: only the double redirect page, although running some tools over the wiki database would probably give more information | 16:35 |
| dneary | GeneralAntilles, A redirect which points to a redirect page gives an error | 16:36 |
| amigadave | there are tools that can give useful maps of orphaned or nearly-orphaned content | 16:36 |
| dneary | It can happen if (say) a page gets renamed for a naming convention, and then the renamed page gets merged with another page | 16:36 |
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| dneary | You should update the first redirect to point to the merged page | 16:36 |
| dneary | amigadave, Yes - I've seen that | 16:37 |
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| amigadave | dneary: might be useful to make sure that pages don't go stale, but that should also improve naturally. i have been finding lots of gems of information and merging them where they belong | 16:37 |
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| amigadave | for example, the Qt pages :) | 16:38 |
| dneary | lizardo, In short for pointing to any internal wiki pages, [[Page name]] is better than [http://wiki.maemo.org/Page_name] - the latter can leave Page name considered as an orphan page | 16:38 |
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| dneary | amigadave, The Qt pages are particularly horrible for this reason: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3363 | 16:39 |
| povbot | Bug 3363: wiki.maemo.org search does not find anything with short search terms | 16:39 |
| crashanddie | http://abcnews.go.com/Health/EyeHealth/ultrasounds-miss-babies-born-eyes/story?id=9680013&cid=yahoo_pitchlist | 16:39 |
| lizardo | dneary: I also didn't know about the "/Page_name" trick for subpages, we were always using "Pymaemo/Page_name" ... I suppose you will be changing this while working on the PyMaemo pages ? | 16:39 |
| dneary | amigadave, The best way to search for Qt content in the wiki is http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awiki.maemo.org+Qt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a | 16:40 |
| crashanddie | not just blind: NO EYES AT ALL | 16:40 |
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| dneary | lizardo, PyMaemo/Page_name is fine - /Page name is just shorter :) | 16:40 |
| dneary | It's the http://wiki.maemo.org... links that we need to "fix" | 16:40 |
| amigadave | dneary: agreed, but the main problem was the huge mess of duplicated information, now mostly in the right place | 16:40 |
| amigadave | and some missing categories :) | 16:41 |
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| dneary | amigadave, The duplicate info was happening because people were searching for existing pages & not finding them | 16:41 |
| dneary | In part | 16:41 |
| amigadave | dneary: and also a lot of the information was copied from the garage page wthiout checking | 16:42 |
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| amigadave | but that's ok, it has now improved other documentation | 16:42 |
| lizardo | dneary: in another topic: has it been decided what to do with pre-fremantle information ? will it be consolidated on some global wiki section , or should each project organize pre-fremantle pages on their own? | 16:42 |
| dneary | lizardo, That is a $64,000 question | 16:43 |
| amigadave | and what do we do when harmattan documentation appears? :) | 16:43 |
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| dneary | Which is better, maintaining Fremantle/USB networking, Diablo/USB networking and Bora/USB networking, or having one USB networking page with 80% of the content referring to older platforms? | 16:44 |
| dneary | amigadave, Titta was saying that usually you just archive away everything, and start anew for the new version with the old stuff, and update anything that needs updating | 16:44 |
| dneary | So you would have different versions of the wiki for Harmattan, Diablo, Fremantle, ... | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I would say - practically - 90% of people are going to be hitting it for hte n900 | 16:45 |
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| amigadave | yeah, the latest platform is the most-used, probably | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It would probably have made sense way back in september or so to fork it. | 16:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | And move * to old_* | 16:45 |
| dneary | SpeedEvil, That percentage changed | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | s/move/copy/ | 16:45 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil meant: And copy * to old_* | 16:45 |
| dneary | s/ed/es | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, of course. | 16:46 |
| lizardo | dneary: I would prefer putting old documentation out of way, but still easy to read | 16:46 |
| murrayc | Find some way to get the old stuff out the way, I'd say. | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | And having the old documentation ont he main page means that it will get edited to match n900 | 16:46 |
| dneary | SpeedEvil, If you look at web browser version migration, 6 months after the release of a new browser, 40% of users are still using the old one | 16:46 |
| lizardo | something like : PyMaemo/Howto -> Diablo/PyMaemo/Howto | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | by people not thinking about earlier devices | 16:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | dneary: Sure - but - that's not the case by a release of a new mass-market device | 16:46 |
| lizardo | so everything related to diablo would be under wiki.maemo.org/Diablo... | 16:46 |
| dneary | Given that you need to buy new hardware to have Fremantle in your hands, it seems reasonable to me that a big chunk of the Maemo community are still on N800 and N810 | 16:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Perhaps. | 16:47 |
| dneary | lizardo, Sure, that makes sense | 16:47 |
| dneary | lizardo, But then, let's say there's a FAQ which affects both Diablo & Fremantle | 16:47 |
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| amigadave | yeah, there is a lot of shared information | 16:47 |
| dneary | Do we expect someone to add it to FAQ and Diablo/FAQ? | 16:48 |
| hrw | dneary: so maybe just use namespaces for all and none for shared? | 16:48 |
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| hrw | wiki/Install but wiki/Diablo/Repositories wiki/Fremantle/Repositories | 16:48 |
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| lizardo | dneary: in that case it would exist only "FAQ" until that content really needs moving somewhere ... the point is to have the "general content" applicable to the latest product, and anything which becomes obsoleted or product specific be moved to Product/Page_name pages... IMHO | 16:50 |
| dneary | hrw, It still gets tricky when you have pages like (say) USB networking where it was really complicated with a 770, and is pretty straightforward with an N900 | 16:50 |
| thresh | it is going to be even easier in a short period of time | 16:51 |
| murrayc | If it's a tiny note then it seems OK. If it at all disrupts the latest explanation, I'd move it elsewhere. | 16:51 |
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| hrw | dneary: so make it wiki/770/usbnetworking (770^Wos2005/2006 only) and wiki/usbnetworking which will describe n8x0/n900 and have link to 770 one? | 16:51 |
| thresh | like you would be able to define 'USB access points' and choose between them after pluggin the usb | 16:51 |
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| lizardo | dneary: my feeling is that don't matter how it is arranged there will be always at least some content duplication ... I see we all agree that having everything-in-one-page does not work well :) | 16:51 |
| amigadave | we could hide the old content as sub-pages, e.g. Packaging moves to Packaging/Fremantle when Harmattan appears, and then have a tiny template at the bottom linking to the older information | 16:51 |
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| dneary | I think it needs to be case-by-case, we should definitely start some substructures for out-of-date information, but try to keep as much as possible in the main namespace | 16:52 |
| dneary | amigadave, I prefer Fremantle/Packaging to Packaging/Fremantle | 16:52 |
| dneary | It could even be Fremantle:Packaging | 16:53 |
| amigadave | dneary: either way is fine with me | 16:53 |
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| lizardo | dneary: does moving to namespaces complicate the page search? IMHO there is already too much namespaces listed on the search page... :/ | 16:54 |
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| dneary | lizardo, Maybe | 16:54 |
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| dneary | It allows you to search for OS2008 specific content, for example | 16:54 |
| * Damion2 almost couldn't breath just then as somebody came back to me after sending rather iffy link with "oh, that's what NSFW means" | 16:54 | |
| lizardo | dneary: for instance, for each namespace there is a "Talk" namespace listed in http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Search | 16:55 |
| dneary | Creating namespaces required sysadmin access to config files for mediawiki though | 16:55 |
| dneary | lizardo, That's configurable | 16:55 |
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| lizardo | dneary: and what is that "maemo.org wiki" namespace ? | 16:57 |
| red | Damion2: share iffy link | 16:57 |
| lizardo | dneary: my point is , if there are too manu namespaces, it becomes difficult to select the mark boxes on the search page... most users end up just leaving the default selection , which is the main namespace | 16:57 |
| dneary | lizardo, I agree | 16:58 |
| lizardo | dneary: and we end up with duplicate pages on different namespaces :) | 16:58 |
| dneary | And the maemo.org wiki namespace is a mystery to me | 16:58 |
| lizardo | dneary: maybe there should have a default to search on all namespaces... if we indeed want to have namespaces for each product | 16:58 |
| Damion2 | red, we were discussing SRS over lunch, and I sent: http://www.supornclinic.com/restricted/SRS/Results.aspx to show how good the results can be | 16:59 |
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| Damion2 | that link is NSFW | 16:59 |
| red | :D | 16:59 |
| Damion2 | well you can peek, click on the thumbnails to zoom | 16:59 |
| Damion2 | do it on your phone so it's small | 16:59 |
| TriztFromWork | silly question, any good way to do so that big file transfers and unarchive tar files won't make the n900 unresponsive? (the cpu load is 100% all the time and you can't do anything until it's finished with the file) | 17:00 |
| pupnik_ | new catorise broke the menus | 17:00 |
| Damion2 | TriztFromWork: could try storing the tar on another devices so it's much less condended | 17:00 |
| ShadowJK | I'd try echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness before big unarchive | 17:00 |
| ShadowJK | and 100 afterwards | 17:01 |
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| TriztFromWork | 100? ain't that quite high? | 17:02 |
| Damion2 | it's the default | 17:02 |
| dneary | lizardo, Ah - that namespace contains 2 pages, About and Legal | 17:02 |
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| TriztFromWork | ain't default 60, at least on other linuxes | 17:03 |
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| Damion2 | TriztFromWork: interesting, not something I've ever tweaked before | 17:03 |
| Damion2 | in fact I just had to check I actually had any swap on my desktop | 17:03 |
| Damion2 | I'm even using some! | 17:03 |
| Damion2 | 4GB is the new 256MB of the early 2000s | 17:03 |
| TriztFromWork | I use the old recommended 2.5 | 17:04 |
| Damion2 | I'm sure my voodoo2 3000 3d on p3 500 with 256MB ram ran like the clappers. That;s now a spec slightly lower than the n900 in my pocket | 17:04 |
| TriztFromWork | hard drive space is so cheap so it don't matter | 17:04 |
| Damion2 | TriztFromWork: on a laptop with potential suspend issues, I would | 17:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: In some ways - P3/500 is lots faster in some ways | 17:04 |
| Damion2 | this is a work desktop so I didn't set it up | 17:05 |
| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: way back in the day, I remember being told that ARM wasn't great for context switching, so UNIX on it was doable, but not useful compared to RiscOS | 17:05 |
| Damion2 | this was from RiscOS users | 17:05 |
| Damion2 | modern x86 otoh much better, but nothing ike as good as sparc and PPC | 17:06 |
| * TriztFromWork likes his PPc and Sparc | 17:06 | |
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| Damion2 | of course now you have a cheap 8 core multi GHz x86 you're unlikely to bother with sparc unless you really want a reliable sun server with great remote console abilities | 17:06 |
| ShadowJK | 100 is default on n900. 60 default in mainline linux kernel | 17:07 |
| Damion2 | Niagra could have changed the playing field | 17:07 |
| Caesium | Damion2: which come on their x86 offerings anyway :) | 17:07 |
| TriztFromWork | Damion2; big endian... mmm.... | 17:07 |
| Damion2 | Caesium: they did i386 years ago with OpenBootProm | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway. The PIII/500 is twice as fast as the n900. See http://tldp.org/HOWTO/BogoMips/bogo-list.html | 17:07 |
| Damion2 | Caesium: then shat all over themselves with a stupid bios for new h/ware | 17:07 |
| ali1234 | lol bogomips | 17:08 |
| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: you're kidding with the BogoMips thing yes? | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: mostly, yes. | 17:08 |
| Damion2 | seeing as a 300Mhz AMD in the 90s vs a 300Mhz Intel used to be double the difference for the same speed | 17:08 |
| Damion2 | oh I was too late to ^U that | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: however, I would like to see benchmarks of the same software. | 17:09 |
| ali1234 | is there geekbench for arm? | 17:09 |
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| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: Q3A was /just/ about playable on the p3 500 | 17:10 |
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| Damion2 | it seems comfortable on the n900 | 17:10 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: if the posts I've been seeing lately are a glimpse of what the council has to endure, I sincerely apologise for having asked you to come back | 17:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, ;) | 17:12 |
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| Milo- | Anyone here have a suggestion on good unit testing framework for C++? | 17:12 |
| crashanddie | I'm this close |<----->| to ask to be removed from the moderation staff | 17:13 |
| Milo- | getting tired of writing gazillion source lines of code just for the test cases, it is so simple with JUnit and rspec :( | 17:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, just ignore it. | 17:13 |
| flux | hmph, hildon-home takes at times 60% cpu and everything's stuck for no apparent reason | 17:13 |
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| crashanddie | Milo-: boost? | 17:13 |
| Milo- | any experiences? | 17:14 |
| crashanddie | Milo-: and cppunit | 17:14 |
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| Milo- | cppunit seems outdated | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: yes - that's probably a rather later version | 17:14 |
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| Milo- | been looking into boost and cppunit today, but I want to hear user experiences :) | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: I mean comparable code and compilers and leaving out hte gpu | 17:14 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/mwkn/front.html | 17:15 |
| crashanddie | Milo-: I'm a java dev by trade, and for c++ I cat | g++ directly | 17:15 |
| Milo- | crashanddie I see | 17:15 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: sweet | 17:15 |
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| crashanddie | Jaffa: I want quotes around the quotes | 17:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, can't you exchange the Twitter logo for something less inane? :P | 17:17 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: tim designed it | 17:18 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Which Twitter logo? The one in the paper? Speak to timsamoff | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, I see. | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: post on the ML | 17:18 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Indeed. | 17:18 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: s/ML/MWKN ML/ | 17:18 |
| crashanddie | hmm? | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, ah, crap something else I have to subscribe to? | 17:18 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: It's for me to talk to the contributors; you're not a contributor :-p | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Although I'd love you to be :) | 17:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | Damion2: as a slightly less-than-perfect benchmark - a similar mplayer -ao:pcm -bench file.mp3 - takes 1.8s on my c2d - not using both cores - and 35s on the n900. The clock is 2.7 times slower on the n900 - compared to the times which is 20 times longer | 17:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I'll have to do some more reading on the requirements, I guess. | 17:20 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: do you tweet? | 17:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, no. | 17:20 |
| crashanddie | good | 17:20 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Basically, post to Twitter if you come across an interesting URL. Unless you want to be a sub-editor, in which case you can do that *and* flesh them out | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil: can you do that with -afm ffmpeg and -afm mp3lib ? | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | not sure if it was exactly mp3lib, check -afm help | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | the different mp3 decoders behave quite differently on different cpus | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 17:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | whuich is why it's not great | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ffmpeg - 33 | 17:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | mp3lib - 35 | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | ah not that big then | 17:24 |
| SpeedEvil | no. | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | it was pretty significant with aac libfaad vs ffmpeg | 17:24 |
| SpeedEvil | https://datatype.helixcommunity.org/Mp3dec | 17:24 |
| * hrw -> off | 17:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | is interesting | 17:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | fixed point optimised decoder | 17:24 |
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| alterego | Hrm ... hildon stock icons .. | 17:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: on the laptop - ffmpeg is half the speed | 17:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | This benchmark is of course flawed for any number of reasons. The n900 might not like Pink Floyd forex. | 17:29 |
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| alterego | So .. I'm trying to create a stock ToolbarButton, but it's giving me default gtk themed icons .. | 17:29 |
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| Aquarina | hi | 17:30 |
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| Aquarina | how do I install xhost on maemo? | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I'm out, take care | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: nice work on mwkn | 17:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, later. | 17:31 |
| tybollt | hrrm, isn't NSU supposed to blank the entire n900? | 17:31 |
| Matthew- | Hey hey | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | tybollt, no. | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just the OneNAND | 17:32 |
| SpeedEvil | tybollt: no | 17:32 |
| tybollt | GeneralAntilles: gotcha | 17:32 |
| Matthew- | facebook users, is there any app that would notify me when I get a message | 17:32 |
| Matthew- | or comment or smth? | 17:32 |
| SpeedEvil | not ~ or mydocs | 17:32 |
| Aquarina | is xhost on some other package? | 17:32 |
| Aquarina | xauth? | 17:32 |
| tybollt | GeneralAntilles: There a way to tell it to blank it _all_ :) | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | tybollt, grab the eMMC image from tablets-dev and flash it. | 17:32 |
| tybollt | check, will do | 17:33 |
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| kevloral | hi all. | 17:35 |
| Aquarina | where can I find xhost for maemo? | 17:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | xauth/host would be nice | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | I had xauth on fremantle I think | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | didn't work as well as I expected... | 17:37 |
| * mgedmin wanted remote clipboard sharing by doing things like echo $url|ssh -X mg-n810 xsel | 17:37 | |
| mgedmin | no, that makes no sense actually | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, turn off the clock in FBReader to make it sleep. | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | I think I have it turned off | 17:38 |
| * mgedmin checks | 17:38 | |
| mgedmin | nope | 17:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: that's not an ideal solution though. sleep 30 instead of sleep 1 would be good | 17:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, sure it isn't, but it's workable until RST38h fixes it. ;) | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | prolly as easy just to shut it | 17:39 |
| SpeedEvil | it starts up back in same pos | 17:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, I like having it open and available. | 17:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Saves taps and time. | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | true. | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | though desktop -> one tap | 17:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | I want the top bar on the task selector though. | 17:40 |
| Aquarina | mgedmin, I need it to forward X from n810 to desktop | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | That annoys me. | 17:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, plus having to fullscreen it again | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | and wait to load. | 17:41 |
| Damion2 | mgedmi: you also need xsel | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Aquarina: xhost phone on desktop. ssh -X desktop - on phone. | 17:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | now whatever | 17:41 |
| ShadowJK | iirc mp3lib is floating point, ffmpeg fixed point | 17:42 |
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| ShadowJK | libfaad has both, the fixed point doesn't really wotk though | 17:42 |
| Damion2 | mgedmin: in fact if you want to trivially send a url to the phone you don't need xauth you actually want DISPLAY to be :0 | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: the link I posted was to fixed | 17:42 |
| Aquarina | SpeedEvil, didn't understand you tip | 17:43 |
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| Aquarina | What i need is to see n810 applications on my desktop | 17:43 |
| Damion2 | I was trying wmctrl to make a fullscreen terminal and it didn't work, no matter what I tried the 80x24 kept ending up 79x23 with an obvious one character wide/high line around the edge | 17:43 |
| Aquarina | not the other way around | 17:43 |
| Aquarina | well... heve to go | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Aquarina: ssh phone - from desktop. set xhost - on desktop to allow phone. ssh -x desktop - from phone | 17:43 |
| Damion2 | Aquarina: ssh fwding I find slow, use direct X with tcp permitted and xauth usbnet/btnet/wifi-IP +ed | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | though that too | 17:44 |
| Matthew- | Is that a _no_ then? | 17:45 |
| Aquarina | what is dropbear command to ssh? | 17:45 |
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| Aquarina | ssh doesn't seem to be on the path!... | 17:45 |
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| Damion2 | Matthew-: the homescreen widget or signin to facebook via the IM client on the phone? I dunno, but I think what you want can/is done | 17:45 |
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| Damion2 | Aquarina: openssh is there in the main repositories | 17:45 |
| ShadowJK | is mp3dec same as mpg123 derived mp3lib? | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | meh. Angrybirds doesn't work. | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | (remotely) | 17:46 |
| Damion2 | Aquarina: dbclient is dbclient rather than ssh | 17:46 |
| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: too local GL-y ? | 17:46 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: Nope, the homescreen widget only shows statuses. | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | glex on n900, gl on other machine? | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | gles* | 17:46 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: I saw updates and text when I took a look | 17:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: eglGetDisplay() Failed | 17:47 |
| Damion2 | ShadowJK: I'm unsure of now X-able GL stuff is at all | 17:47 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: but i mean, something that would notify me that ive got a message in my inbox | 17:47 |
| Matthew- | or a comment, | 17:47 |
| Matthew- | not really interested in the IM | 17:47 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: I'm 90% certain I saw that | 17:47 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: a pull down with something like (4) messages | 17:47 |
| Aquarina | well... I just couldn't do it | 17:47 |
| Damion2 | off the large mainscreen widget | 17:47 |
| ifreq | idont think x over tcp/ip is gl supported too | 17:47 |
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| Aquarina | try again later | 17:47 |
| Aquarina | sorry, have to go | 17:48 |
| Aquarina | bye | 17:48 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: that's the statuses. | 17:48 |
| Damion2 | hmm, well if it's not obvious on the widget then I guess it doesn't. I don't use FB it's arse | 17:48 |
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| Damion2 | I have a login cos my wife set it up | 17:48 |
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| Matthew- | ;-) | 17:48 |
| Damion2 | not that she uses it much either | 17:49 |
| Damion2 | we're on the same mud | 17:49 |
| ShadowJK | Damion2: Oh I can run flgightgear on my atom330 box and siaplay it remotely on my nvidia equipped quadcore box, and it's faster than fg locally on atom330 | 17:49 |
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| Damion2 | ShadowJK: yeah? | 17:49 |
| Damion2 | hmm well I guess the odd GL command could fit down a network and get the local card to do fancy 3D rendering | 17:49 |
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| Damion2 | that was how I always imagined it would work, but the few times I've ever tried it it's never worked at all | 17:49 |
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| Damion2 | GL is even more local specific for speed than something just using SDL, XV or even old MIT SHM | 17:50 |
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| Damion2 | all of which can't xmit well over plain tcp | 17:50 |
| pupnik | timeless_mbp: should i file a bug if long-click on a .pdf link in microb does not yield a "Copy link" menu item? | 17:50 |
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| ShadowJK | sdl and xv just push pixels | 17:51 |
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| Damion2 | the XVIDEO extension ? | 17:52 |
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| Damion2 | SDL falls back to raw X11 but uses DRI when local doesn't it? I think I mean DRI rather than sdl, seeing as you're right it will X | 17:52 |
| Damion2 | sdl being the lib which does the work of working out the fastest thing for yuo | 17:52 |
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| SplasPood | Hrm... I miss being able to send SMS via bluetooth from my desktop | 17:56 |
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| Damion2 | SplasPood: DUN support provides an AT command over BT (or usb) are you certain you can't do the right AT stuff for sms ? | 17:57 |
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| SplasPood | Damion2: Hrm... ya know, I haven't really tried... What do people use for that under Linux these days, I used to do this on the mac | 17:58 |
| Damion2 | rfcomm and minicom | 17:59 |
| Damion2 | and bing for finding the right AT commands | 17:59 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 17:59 |
| Damion2 | or cuil or Google it's your choice | 17:59 |
| Damion2 | gnokii or something like that used to do the AT stuff for you, oh probably the rfcomm set up too | 17:59 |
| Damion2 | I'm serially on with usb now, let me check... | 18:00 |
| SplasPood | Well yes, I knew how one would do it manually ;) | 18:00 |
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| lizardo | dneary: is there any preference over using references (<ref>...</ref>) vs. direct links ([http://www.example.org/ Example]) on Maemo Wiki pages ? | 18:00 |
| Damion2 | AT+CMGW | 18:01 |
| Damion2 | ERROR | 18:01 |
| Damion2 | AT+CMGW="123456789012" | 18:01 |
| Damion2 | doh | 18:01 |
| Damion2 | oh that's a bit annoying this is logged and put online | 18:02 |
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| Damion2 | oh wow and I got it working | 18:03 |
| Damion2 | AT+CMGS rather than W | 18:03 |
| Damion2 | I just sent myself Hello World, so it seems whatever tools people used before should work exactly the same with the n900 as it would on an older phone | 18:04 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 18:04 |
| Damion2 | I liek that nokia went to that effort, unlike iPhone/Android | 18:04 |
| SplasPood | Good to know | 18:04 |
| SplasPood | Damion2: yea, thats why I just assumed it wouldn't work ;) | 18:04 |
| Damion2 | does anyone know who moderates the logs that get uploaded frmo #maemo ? | 18:04 |
| Damion2 | SplasPood: reasonable assumption. Especially with a launch lacking mms and video calling | 18:04 |
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| Damion2 | I'm very pleased that they've gone to the efforts of making some normal phone stuff still work despite the OS being linux and they clearly had to imlpement stuff to get there | 18:05 |
| Damion2 | even if I hardly use it | 18:05 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: what cloak am I entitled to? Just had an oper ask me | 18:05 |
| SplasPood | Last nokia device I had, and loved, was the N95 and I used to do this all the time there, but then it's been some android since then and well.. yea | 18:06 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: just community/contributor? | 18:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie | 18:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unless you want to be Maemo/community/villageidiot/crashanddie | 18:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd be OK with that. ;) | 18:06 |
| alterego | Anyone know what the stock_icon_id's for the presence icons are? I wanna use online offline icons. | 18:07 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Now quotes in the CSS, btw | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: awsum | 18:07 |
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| pupnik | can i really get a villageidiot cloak?? | 18:07 |
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| pupnik | unaffiliated is dull | 18:08 |
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| frals | GeneralAntilles, whos the groupcontact? i got a capital C in community and the oper wont change it ;D | 18:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade | 18:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That'd be my typo from the bug, unfortunately. | 18:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sorry. | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: yes? | 18:10 |
| frals | X-Fade: could you request a change on my cloak to "Maemo/community/contributor/frals"? | 18:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, lowercase c in community. | 18:10 |
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| X-Fade | frals: requested. | 18:12 |
| frals | thanks :) | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | done | 18:12 |
| frals | he, 2 seconds later it changed :-) | 18:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, how hard is it to set a secondary contact? | 18:13 |
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| X-Fade | andy80 needs to set his email before he gets his cloak. | 18:13 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I don't know. I think there can only be one founder. | 18:14 |
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| w00t | X-Fade: it is possible | 18:14 |
| w00t | http://freenode.net/group_registration_form.php | 18:15 |
| w00t | request type alternate | 18:15 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: actually, I got my cloak before I had the email set ;) | 18:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | w00t, so, another 18 months until that's processed. | 18:16 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: and I already had a cloak before without an email... The oper just asked me to add it afterwards | 18:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | w00t, I guess we'll have to guess who'll be chair by that time. ;) | 18:16 |
| alterego | Okay, why would my python script not have maemo themed icons when using gtk.STOCK_* | 18:16 |
| crashanddie | w00t: I've registered a group using that about 4 years ago and am still waiting | 18:16 |
| alterego | Executing on device using run-standalone.sh | 18:16 |
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| w00t | GeneralAntilles: I don't have recent first hand knowledge, but when I last looked into such stuff, alternate approvals were given priorities | 18:16 |
| crashanddie | w00t: in the meantime, I've graduated and the group is not used anymore... | 18:16 |
| w00t | crashanddie: there's a massive queue, well into the thousands | 18:16 |
| w00t | (again, I don't have first hand knowledge: I last knew about this stuff quite some months ago) | 18:17 |
| crashanddie | so don't tell people it's possible | 18:17 |
| w00t | crashanddie: um. as I said, from how the situation *was*, changes to existing groups are given priority | 18:17 |
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| crashanddie | http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201001/errord/Processing-WTF.jpg | 18:20 |
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| range | :) | 18:21 |
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| alterego | Hah, well. I wont mind, just send me the pictures. | 18:38 |
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| Damion2 | oh dd if=/dev/zero of=sparse-file bs=1 count=0 seek=500M on MyDocs isn't fast, I guess fat32 doesn't support sparce | 18:44 |
| Damion2 | s/ce/se/ | 18:44 |
| infobot | Damion2 meant: oh dd if=/dev/zero of=sparse-file bs=1 count=0 seek=500M on MyDocs isn't fast, I guess fat32 doesn't support sparse | 18:44 |
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| ShadowJK | no, no sparse on fat | 18:45 |
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| Damion2 | still, loopback mounted large files on MyDocs works fine so I have some chmodable space to grow in to | 18:49 |
| Damion2 | and the mount with exec works | 18:49 |
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| MohammadAG | how do i update menu icons? | 18:50 |
| lbt | X-Fade: ping | 18:51 |
| X-Fade | lbt: pong | 18:51 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Linux_Commands | 18:52 |
| lbt | "Nokia Mobile has become fashion of the mobile lovers slowly and steadily because,we note the current trends " | 18:52 |
| lbt | http://nokiamobile.biz/ | 18:52 |
| lbt | :( | 18:52 |
| lbt | could be a one off thingy but FYI :) | 18:52 |
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| X-Fade | lbt: Our anti spam master GeneralAntilles seems to have missed that ;) | 18:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I hardly watch the wiki anymore. | 18:56 |
| Matthew- | see, that's how my Facebook Widget looks | 18:56 |
| Matthew- | http://img.inerd.me/MISC/Screen.png | 18:56 |
| Matthew- | and well, kinda useless w/o being notified when i get a new message or wall comment. | 18:56 |
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| Damion2 | Matthew-: I had an extra box to the side with something like a (4) for 4 new messages, that I could click on | 18:59 |
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| Matthew- | Damion2: but _how_ :D | 18:59 |
| Matthew- | it's same widget, no settings there. | 19:00 |
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| Matthew- | Damion2: and well, would be nice if the statuses would be rollable | 19:01 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: I might have let it get updated frmo a newer repository | 19:02 |
| Damion2 | are you sure you're getting any new messages? maybe you're much less popular than you reliased? ;) | 19:02 |
| Damion2 | or your desktop version is nabbing them first | 19:02 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: got 3 messages | 19:02 |
| Damion2 | or (60% chance) I;m just mistaken and I didn't see that at all and I'm just confused | 19:02 |
| Matthew- | :-) | 19:03 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: and ive got all upgraded to testing :D | 19:03 |
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| pupnik | pdf reader doesnt let me hilight and copy text... | 19:06 |
| alterego | So, urm, anyone know why I'm not getting maemo icons instead of the default gtk stocks? | 19:06 |
| ifreq | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=7620f7573b538be62ba5bae20427362d&t=39892 | 19:07 |
| ifreq | can anyone answer to this? | 19:07 |
| pupnik | evince i guess | 19:08 |
| alterego | is there a --with-db option? | 19:08 |
| uhsf | i bet many people would have been turn off on open source software forever by receiving the 700$ unusable n900 i received yesterday and they would just exchanged it for an iphone | 19:08 |
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| Damion2 | uhsf: didn't you just get in a reboot loop after trying the over the air update? I think a flash would have fixed | 19:10 |
| ifreq | alterego: yeah seems so | 19:10 |
| ifreq | dunno what kind of berkeleydb scratchbox has | 19:10 |
| ifreq | brb | 19:10 |
| ShadowJK | 2 year warranty :) | 19:10 |
| uhsf | Damion2: i did absolutely nothing. first boot went into reboot loop | 19:11 |
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| uhsf | i don't have time to look for flashing now it'll have to wait a few days | 19:12 |
| Damion2 | I vaguely recall you're mentioning it was doing it's own update. But I'm probably wrong then if you just got it and rebooted it | 19:12 |
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| Lantizia | Hey, I've got the global release of 51-1 on my N900... looking through dpkg -l theres alot of non-english extra packages for various things... is there an easy way of uninstalling them all to perhaps a) save space and b) make my dpkg -l list look tidier? | 19:14 |
| ShadowJK | no | 19:14 |
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| adeus | grep | 19:15 |
| ShadowJK | there are not-easy way to uninstall them, and it will result in you not getting updates anymore | 19:16 |
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| slonopotamus | err... anyone with n900 experiences problems connecting to skype? | 19:17 |
| uhsf | i experience problems booting the n900 | 19:18 |
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| uhsf | it pops up a short message saying internal error application camera closed... application phone closed | 19:19 |
| VDVsx | slonopotamus, I've had failed attempts, but trying a second time works (probably network issues) | 19:19 |
| uhsf | and then back to the full white nokia screen | 19:20 |
| VDVsx | uhsf, seems that you mess up your system | 19:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, can you go fill out an alt contact form for Freenode? | 19:21 |
| VDVsx | what's that ? lol | 19:21 |
| lcuk | we need generalised closning mechanisms | 19:21 |
| lcuk | cloning | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, http://freenode.net/group_registration_form.php | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Select Alternate | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, so we can set you up as a backup contact for X-Fade. | 19:21 |
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| VDVsx | anything in the approved by field? | 19:22 |
| Damion2 | uhsf: is this a 2nd device ? | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, X-Fade. | 19:23 |
| Damion2 | if so, it's extremely unlikely to be a 2nd DOA, you must be doing something wrong. Rebooting with the camera slider open ? | 19:23 |
| Lantizia | ShadowJK: apt-get remove --purge *-cscz *-dadk *-dede *-enus *-eses *-esmx *-fifi *-frca *-frfr *-itit *-nlnl *-nono *-plpl *-ptpt *-ruru *-svse | 19:24 |
| Lantizia | Bad idea :) | 19:24 |
| Lantizia | ? | 19:24 |
| Damion2 | en_US ? | 19:25 |
| Lantizia | yeah well I'm en_GB | 19:26 |
| Damion2 | I would recommend more removing that even if you're not from there | 19:26 |
| * Damion2 is british too, but it'll no doubt be a dependancy on stuff :) | 19:26 | |
| Damion2 | are these really that large? | 19:26 |
| Lantizia | well I'll see if apt-get doesn't like it :) | 19:26 |
| Lantizia | dunno - but my dpkg list is a mess with them in lol | 19:26 |
| Damion2 | I found about 30MB of libs are Qt stuff, which somebody will likely optify | 19:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: HP sauce? | 19:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: Branston Pickle? Marmite? | 19:27 |
| Damion2 | the rest of my 50MB of / space is ample for the odd symlink for apps as I install them over the years IMO | 19:27 |
| Lantizia | hmm apt-get doesn't like wildcards | 19:27 |
| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: I like twiglets | 19:27 |
| Damion2 | Lantizia: use grep -v | 19:27 |
| Caesium | Lantizia: shell is probably expanding them, quote them? | 19:27 |
| Lantizia | damion2: space isn't an issue for me either as most of usr, var and also opt run from /home partition which is 17gb | 19:27 |
| Damion2 | it's busybox dpkg too | 19:27 |
| slonopotamus | VDVsx, it fails to connect for several hours already | 19:27 |
| Lantizia | but I want a tidier package listy | 19:27 |
| Damion2 | Lantizia: oh you've partitioned around ? | 19:27 |
| Lantizia | Damion2, yeah /home is 17gb and MyDocs is 8gb with USB working | 19:28 |
| Lantizia | or something like that | 19:28 |
| Damion2 | Lantizia: yeah looked doable but I dont' even mind 2GB for the moment | 19:28 |
| Damion2 | if I run low I'll backup and re partition | 19:28 |
| Lantizia | I can send you my instructions if you like | 19:28 |
| VDVsx | slonopotamus, you only have the skype account enabled or you've others ? | 19:29 |
| Damion2 | I've skimmed a few pages, I have like 15 years experience, I doubt I'll break it ;) | 19:29 |
| Lantizia | oh ok lol :P | 19:29 |
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| * Damion2 used linux and sunos since 1993ish at uni and not looked back | 19:29 | |
| Lantizia | damion2: tip tho... just use sfdisk since it's already on there - much easier than trying to get any other tool to do the job | 19:29 |
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| Lantizia | seem some pages where people are crazily compiling fdisk or cfdisk | 19:30 |
| Caesium | fdisk can't be hard | 19:30 |
| Damion2 | yeah I contemplated changing the daemon that exports the partiion, to export the whole disk after remounting ;/home as RO and letting a desktop cfdisk it | 19:30 |
| Damion2 | I can't be the only person that thought of that easier option that crosscompiling cfdisk ;) | 19:31 |
| Damion2 | I'll man sfdisk if I do it :) | 19:31 |
| Lantizia | I like keeping the two partitions, don't want to edit scripts that might break with updates anyway - 2gb for /home was silly and I didn't need 27gb for the USB part | 19:31 |
| Caesium | that easy debian chroot might be an easier way to get cfdisk etc? | 19:31 |
| Damion2 | Caesium: it could be hard, I think it prods some INT10 stuff in a bios-y but still in protected mode kinda way (like Xorg) to work some geometry stuff out | 19:32 |
| Lantizia | Anyway! apt-get wildcards!? :D | 19:32 |
| Lantizia | Damion2: why mention grep? | 19:32 |
| Damion2 | tidier dpkg -l output :) | 19:32 |
| Caesium | Lantizia: doesn't quoting them to work to escape the attention of the shell? | 19:32 |
| Lantizia | nope | 19:33 |
| Damion2 | as for 27GB usb yeah, and limited to fat's 4GB is a pain, I found I use usbnet and ssh most of the time, I can rsync scp and if I get roudn to it, will sshfs or nfs export the phone for file copying | 19:33 |
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| Damion2 | mounting fat is a pain anyway | 19:33 |
| Lantizia | Damion2: yeah I NFS export my microsdhc save me taking it out | 19:33 |
| uhsf | VDVsx: how does it seem i messed up my system? i open the box of a brand new n900, insert the battery, press the power button, perpetual reboot loop. | 19:34 |
| Damion2 | surely if debian chroot works, then copying the right libs, some ld-linux.so kludgy fun, should permit you to run stuff under the main maemo rather than staying in the chroot, not to mention it indeicates a reasonable chance of easy crosscompile ? | 19:34 |
| uhsf | Damion2: this is my first n900 | 19:34 |
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| Damion2 | uhsf: oh still that one | 19:34 |
| ifreq | anyone got idea why maemo sdk/armel scratchbox is not resolving anything via DNS? | 19:34 |
| Damion2 | uhsf: sim card? microsd card ? | 19:34 |
| ifreq | it has correct resolv.conf/nsswitch.conf | 19:34 |
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| Damion2 | nameserver 8.8.8.8 ? | 19:35 |
| uhsf | Damion2: i have not inserted any of these yet | 19:35 |
| ifreq | Damion2: nope, but local DNS same which VMWARE uses | 19:35 |
| ShadowJK | you get instant exchange of DOA N900s :) | 19:35 |
| mgedmin | ifreq, check /scratchbox/resolv.conf too | 19:35 |
| Damion2 | uhsf: camera opened when you boot, or not opened? if you've tried these thignsg you can say it's DOA and get new, or try flashing | 19:35 |
| VDVsx | uhsf, so you should contact the store, it clearly has problems | 19:35 |
| ifreq | mgedmin: its checked :/ | 19:35 |
| mgedmin | there are two files: one in the target's /etc, one global /scratchbox/etc | 19:35 |
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| ifreq | mgedmin: you mean /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf? | 19:36 |
| ifreq | yeah | 19:36 |
| adeus | the latter is used | 19:36 |
| Damion2 | I was annoyed to have to insert a sim to get mine to work down stairs in my house (UK's ch13 wifi) | 19:36 |
| * mgedmin nods | 19:36 | |
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| uhsf | this is so annoying doa means to wait almost another complete month | 19:36 |
| mgedmin | Damion2, there's an open bug for that, I believe | 19:36 |
| Damion2 | mgedmin: I recall one closed as won'tfix as it's a way to stay regulatory | 19:37 |
| mgedmin | ah | 19:37 |
| Damion2 | my sim let it know I was in the "country of EU" and it started working | 19:37 |
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| Damion2 | I tried to find which daemon / kernel module and faff aroundforcing it to think EU but I couldn't see anything | 19:37 |
| Caesium | uhsf: try this? http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 19:37 |
| ifreq | mgedmin: thanks atleast /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf was empty.. restarting | 19:38 |
| Damion2 | android just has a check box, it doesn't even mention country it just asks "how many channels do you want 11 13 or 14" | 19:38 |
| VDVsx | uhsf, no if the device has less than 15 days, they have to give you a new one, right away | 19:38 |
| Damion2 | I opened mine on xmas day after almost 13 days of buying it | 19:38 |
| Damion2 | I was lucky | 19:38 |
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| * Caesium got N900 from expansys about 3 days after ordering, didn't see what the big deal was about shortages :) | 19:39 | |
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| Caesium | though it did come with a USA plug so suspect it's an import | 19:39 |
| * SpeedEvil got his on Nov 30, after about a month | 19:39 | |
| Damion2 | somebody invited me to the summit but I have kids to look after, he got a free one the bast***d | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | loan | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:39 |
| Damion2 | oh yes that's true it's a "loan" ;) | 19:40 |
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| ShadowJK | how long left on rthat loan? | 19:40 |
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| Damion2 | anyone living in central London ? | 19:41 |
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| aSIMULAtor | i USED to live in central london :P | 19:41 |
| Lantizia | apt-get remove --purge .*-cscz .*-dadk .*-dede .*-enus .*-eses .*-esmx .*-fifi .*-frca .*-frfr .*-itit .*-nlnl .*-nono .*-plpl .*-ptpt .*-ruru .*-svse | 19:41 |
| wazd | Meh, at last | 19:41 |
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| Lantizia | That'll do it! will I break Maemo tho ShadowJK | 19:41 |
| *** cmvo_ is now known as cmvo | 19:41 | |
| Damion2 | Lantizia: I think it'll be okay, but I would urge you to leave .*-enus | 19:42 |
| * wazd curses +R | 19:42 | |
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| * Damion2 heads off to collect the kids from nursery :( £2600 a month is killing me | 19:42 | |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 19:43 |
| Lantizia | Damion2, £2600 a month to send your kids to a nursery? | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | You could point a webcam at them, and have a IP controlled robot! | 19:43 |
| adeus | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42635 | 19:43 |
| wazd | To collect them) | 19:43 |
| villager | Lantizia: the automatic update will no longer work | 19:43 |
| adeus | anyone have any good solutions to that? | 19:43 |
| Damion2 | Lantizia: yeah it's one of the cheap ones | 19:43 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: in what country? | 19:44 |
| Lantizia | tf | 19:44 |
| Lantizia | villager - how come? | 19:44 |
| Damion2 | we're slightly subsidised as elsest is >3 | 19:44 |
| villager | Lantizia: it means you'll probably have to reflash when the next firmware comes out, rather than being able to update over the air | 19:44 |
| Damion2 | and both wife and I have childcare vouchers earning about 2k a year | 19:44 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: central London | 19:44 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: which nuesery | 19:44 |
| Damion2 | it's only 60-80% of that cost up-t'north | 19:44 |
| Damion2 | not much cheaper | 19:44 |
| Lantizia | villager - err it sat there for 5 minutes doing nothing, then all of a sudden decided to try and remove EVERY package | 19:44 |
| Matthew- | which nursery ? | 19:44 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: I live in ec1 | 19:45 |
| Damion2 | just a normal chain, Kids Unlimited would be 3.1k | 19:45 |
| Matthew- | and my sister lves in w1 with 2 kids | 19:45 |
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| adeus | mole station nursery | 19:45 |
| Matthew- | and they're both in nursery | 19:45 |
| Damion2 | we were in one in WC1 which was only 1100 a month for a 2yo | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: Kids Unlimited - is that like an All you can eat resturant? | 19:45 |
| Damion2 | youngest is <18 months and is about 1500 | 19:45 |
| Matthew- | if you know the game | 19:45 |
| Matthew- | I call _bullshit_ | 19:45 |
| wazd | ~ping | 19:45 |
| infobot | ~pong | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Dump your 11 kids for the same price? | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 19:46 |
| luke-jr | sigh | 19:46 |
| Matthew- | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4688826.stm | 19:46 |
| Matthew- | there you go | 19:46 |
| luke-jr | raise your own kids, kthx | 19:46 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: you think they're ripping us off cos we dont know better? | 19:46 |
| Matthew- | The average charge for a nursery place for a young child is currently £197 a week, while in outer London the typical cost is £174 a week. | 19:46 |
| villager | Lantizia: Nokia has made a metapackage that depends on every package, including those language packs - trying to remove the language packs will also kill that metapackage, and since OTA upgrades require that package, it will make upgrades impossible | 19:46 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: I think you're lying sir. | 19:46 |
| Damion2 | average 853 a month ? | 19:46 |
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| Lantizia | villager - it's not the space it takes up that bothers me (have repartitioned so I've got gigs left)... but it's how messy dpkg -l looks with them in | 19:47 |
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| Damion2 | elsest is 1100 there is one which is 950 a month near us in Pimlico but it got VERY low often reports | 19:47 |
| hatseflats | evening everyone | 19:47 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: 2.8k for 2 kids | 19:47 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: plus, when you put second kid in you get discount. | 19:47 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: I'm not making this up, Kids unlimited is more expensive we're in the middle and the cheaper one was crap | 19:47 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: ahh yeah this one didn't do that but we know some that do, but there ages away from the house | 19:48 |
| Damion2 | I walk to this on teh way to work | 19:48 |
| villager | Lantizia: then maybe don't look at the dpkg -l output... | 19:48 |
| Damion2 | we barely make 9am deadline for beakfast each morning, there is no way I'm taking them to one further | 19:48 |
| luke-jr | ... | 19:48 |
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| Damion2 | Matthew-: a load of nurseries are in the 600-800 range which help your average, but they are attached to schools and shut at 15:30 which is **cking pointless | 19:49 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: does your wife earn much more than 3k a month after tax? | 19:49 |
| ifreq | mgedmin: thansk works.. tho apt-get dont but thats not my biggest issue | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | are you using fakeroot? | 19:49 |
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| ifreq | tried to run apt-get insinde armel | 19:49 |
| ifreq | ah | 19:49 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: she earns about dead even on the cost per month that we pay, which is 2600 - 300odd for 12.5hrs goverment help on >3yo kid, and the childcare vounchers | 19:49 |
| villager | Lantizia: the way Nokia set it up, you can't remove them without breaking stuff, possibly voiding your warranty in the process... so you may as well leave it | 19:50 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: well, then tell her to quit her job and spend some more time with kids. | 19:50 |
| Damion2 | once eldest is in school we're a grand up, then the younger one gets cheaper and cheaper as they get older | 19:50 |
| luke-jr | Matthew-++ | 19:50 |
| pupnik | please get a room for your offtopic chat | 19:50 |
| * mgedmin doubts pure software hacks can void the warranty ... /me would expect a Nokia Care service center to blindly reflash the OS image if something stops working | 19:50 | |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: we only have to haemorrage money for another few years | 19:50 |
| mgedmin | now if you write software to do something nasty to the hardware that e.g. burns out the CPU, that could end up badly | 19:51 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: for _only_ a few years? | 19:51 |
| luke-jr | mgedmin: depends on the hack; if it damages hardware, it can | 19:51 |
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| luke-jr | Damion2: while neglecting your children | 19:51 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: she'd break a continuation of employment and might fail to get work after, she loves her job and the kids get to interact with others rather than being like weirdo homeschoolers | 19:51 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: Should've opened a fund for kids when you were younger. Like <------ | 19:51 |
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| mgedmin | I don't see now apt-get remove languagepack could damage hardware ; | 19:51 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: we came in to it with many thousands assuming we'd be down a tad | 19:51 |
| villager | mgedmin: it will also remove the metapackage, which in turn might remove the kernel | 19:52 |
| Damion2 | doesn't stop me moaning about the ridiculousness of the costs in SW1 | 19:52 |
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| mgedmin | villager, I very much doubt that the kernel depends on the metapackage | 19:52 |
| Damion2 | I'm entitled to moan :) | 19:52 |
| luke-jr | Damion2: I disagree. | 19:52 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: well my sister is in W1K, kids go to some nursery where they are dropped by drivers and she pays less than 2.8k a month | 19:52 |
| Damion2 | luke-jr: they're not neglected, althoughI should head off now ! | 19:52 |
| villager | mgedmin: no, the other way around... the metapackage might remove the kernel... and then later someone goes and autoremoves stuff that nothing depends on, and... | 19:52 |
| ShadowJK | do things depend on maemo-pr? I forget... apt-cache rdependends maemo-pr | 19:53 |
| Damion2 | 2.8K a month is more than us | 19:53 |
| villager | mgedmin: metapackage depends on the kernel, I mean | 19:53 |
| luke-jr | Damion2: daycare = neglect | 19:53 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: that's what u said you pay | 19:53 |
| Damion2 | luke-jr: no it's not! | 19:53 |
| Damion2 | 2600 | 19:53 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: we DID look around ! | 19:53 |
| Matthew- | yeah, somewhere around the same | 19:53 |
| wazd | 2.8K euros? O_o | 19:53 |
| Matthew- | it's not far from Millenium bridge | 19:54 |
| Damion2 | I'm not taking them by tube up to W1K | 19:54 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: oh, its near the city | 19:54 |
| Matthew- | not in west end | 19:54 |
| villager | mgedmin: it might not be the kernel specifically, but there's probably something important that could get autoremoved whenever the metapackage that depends on the maemo components goes | 19:54 |
| Matthew- | and the primary school they signed them up for has got 6 years waiting list. | 19:54 |
| Matthew- | next to millenium bridge also. | 19:54 |
| hatseflats | I've got a n810 caught in a reboot loop, I can't get into the bootloader interface either (holding switch and power). The thing doesn't seem to want to charge either, I'm suck with a bootloop that takes about 4 seconds in total, anyone got some pointer(s)? | 19:54 |
| Damion2 | luke-jr: trust me when my wife was on maternity leave looking after them both, they were possibly slightly more neglected as they drove my wife mad jumping around and stuff (well the eldest) | 19:54 |
| Matthew- | wazd: gbp | 19:54 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: we're probably going for free school so I'll be quids in within a few years | 19:55 |
| luke-jr | Damion2: so discipline them properly | 19:55 |
| wazd | Let's get back to maemo channel topic please. Kittens, anyone?) | 19:55 |
| Damion2 | wazd: sorry | 19:55 |
| luke-jr | wazd: kittens are the maemo channel topic? | 19:55 |
| wazd | Matthew-: holy crap | 19:55 |
| wazd | Luke-jr: it's not?) | 19:56 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: well I dont have kids | 19:56 |
| wazd | Matthew-: that's kinda insane | 19:56 |
| Damion2 | luke-jr: let's agree to differ. I know some right chavvy lamers looking after their kids, I;m pretty sure we're better parents even if we're not around them 24x7 | 19:56 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: and I plan to have good 5 figure fund for their education before i do have them. | 19:57 |
| luke-jr | Damion2: at least they try? (wtf does 'right chavvy lamers' mean anyhow?) | 19:57 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: or send them to private nursery | 19:57 |
| Matthew- | blah | 19:57 |
| wazd | matthew-: I think you're joking) | 19:57 |
| Matthew- | don't send them that is | 19:57 |
| Damion2 | I lived for 5 years in 150quid a month rent in Sutton, I built up about 150k :) Ate it all on mortgage and daycare | 19:57 |
| Matthew- | wazd: No, im serious :) | 19:57 |
| ShadowJK | chav is something like white trash | 19:57 |
| Damion2 | luke-jr: we could easily look after them I disagree it's better for them. We spend loads of loving hours withthem outside of the 9-5 of work | 19:58 |
| Damion2 | a lamer is somebody who is lame, a chav as ShadowJK puts it | 19:58 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: well I mean 200-400k for 2 kids | 19:58 |
| Damion2 | Matthew-: ?! that's insane, that include private school? | 19:58 |
| wazd | Matthew-: nursery? For 2.8k a month?) | 19:58 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: yes | 19:58 |
| Matthew- | wazd: yes | 19:58 |
| Damion2 | I found I saved money once they were born as I actually went out for dinner much less :) | 19:59 |
| hatseflats | anyone? | 19:59 |
| luke-jr | Matthew-: 200-400k is 6 figures, not 5 | 19:59 |
| Damion2 | Private schools suck IMO | 19:59 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: true, but i get bonus every year. | 19:59 |
| wazd | Are you mad? :D | 19:59 |
| Matthew- | luke-jr: blah, 6 figure than, sorry :) | 19:59 |
| Damion2 | smart parents leads to an almost 1:1 mapping to smart kids | 19:59 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: No they dont. Well, i dont plan to bring them up in this fucked up country in the first place. | 19:59 |
| Matthew- | wazd: oh, i dont have kids. | 19:59 |
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| Damion2 | smart parents often = money money = send kids to private school | 20:00 |
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| Damion2 | so they tend to get better grades, but it's not the schools doing it | 20:00 |
| wazd | You can spend month on fucking Carribeans for 2.8k :D | 20:00 |
| Matthew- | Damion2: well, maybe not in the UK | 20:00 |
| Matthew- | wazd: u can spend a month on carribean islands for 1k | 20:00 |
| Matthew- | :D | 20:00 |
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| wazd | Is that stuff worth 2.8k really? | 20:02 |
| hatseflats | how badly is my n810 busted if I can't get into the bootloader screen? | 20:02 |
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| hatseflats | or the carge screen for that matter | 20:02 |
| Matthew- | wazd: nope | 20:02 |
| Matthew- | ;) | 20:02 |
| hatseflats | or anything but a 4 second delay on booting, then black, then booting again | 20:03 |
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| deja_vu | hello | 20:03 |
| gonX | hey guys, i'm facing a problem with scratchbox while building a new kernel for my n900, simply said i get "mmap: Operation not permitted" while trying to do "make rx51_defconfig" | 20:03 |
| hatseflats | deja_vu: hello again | 20:03 |
| deja_vu | :) | 20:03 |
| wazd | Matthew-: what crazy monthly income should you have to afford this! | 20:03 |
| hatseflats | so, no one? | 20:04 |
| deja_vu | has anyone tried using 'debuild' in scratchbox? | 20:04 |
| Matthew- | wazd: well, like 300k + PA | 20:04 |
| luke-jr | hatseflats: sounds easily recoverable | 20:04 |
| Matthew- | which for central london, 2 people professionals is not that much | 20:04 |
| adeus | gonX, " echo 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr" | 20:04 |
| hatseflats | luke-jr: sounds good, but how or where can I find the info? maemo wiki isn't letting off much | 20:05 |
| adeus | iirc | 20:05 |
| luke-jr | hatseflats: just reflash | 20:05 |
| luke-jr | hatseflats: the initfs in particular | 20:05 |
| luke-jr | maybe kernel first | 20:05 |
| gonX | adeus: that's what i heard too, doesn't fix it. might it have something to do with my own kernel? i use .33-rc4 | 20:05 |
| * slonopotamus thinks whether it is smart to accept work offer with relocation to cyprus | 20:05 | |
| wazd | Matthew-: there's no fucking way to do this in Russia without criminal stuff | 20:05 |
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| deja_vu | debian/rules clean fails in debuild (tells me i'm not root), even though debuild runs fakeroot | 20:05 |
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| deja_vu | 'fakeroot debian/rules clean' works Oo | 20:06 |
| Matthew- | wazd: Are you russian? | 20:06 |
| wazd | Matthew-: yep | 20:06 |
| * luke-jr peers at deja_vu | 20:06 | |
| Matthew- | wazd: My dad worked with russians, and in 90s they paid in suitcases full of dollars | 20:06 |
| adeus | gonX, is that kernel something really really new? | 20:06 |
| deja_vu | hey luke :> | 20:06 |
| luke-jr | deja_vu: where'd you go? | 20:06 |
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| gonX | adeus: the one i'm compiling, no. the one i'm using, yes | 20:06 |
| wazd | Matthew-: oh those 90s) | 20:07 |
| deja_vu | luke-jr: haven't been playing much tron recently | 20:07 |
| Matthew- | wazd: you know Baltika? | 20:07 |
| luke-jr | deja_vu: so? | 20:07 |
| gonX | adeus: it's less than 2 weeks old | 20:07 |
| Matthew- | the beer company | 20:07 |
| wazd | Matthew-: yep | 20:07 |
| adeus | the one you are using | 20:07 |
| wazd | Matthew-: shitty beer) | 20:07 |
| Matthew- | wazd: we used to print _all_ of their labels | 20:07 |
| adeus | maybe you should ask the kernel team | 20:07 |
| deja_vu | luke-jr: did you miss me? :P | 20:08 |
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| gonX | adeus: i have a feeling it's qemu doing it though. i have 2.6.32 laying around, so i'll try booting to that to take a look | 20:08 |
| gonX | brb | 20:08 |
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| luke-jr | deja_vu: yes | 20:09 |
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| wazd | Matthew-: ah | 20:09 |
| wazd | Matthew-: it's really one of the cheapest brands in here | 20:09 |
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| Matthew- | wazd: but they produce _a lot_ of beer | 20:10 |
| Matthew- | = a lot of bottles = a lot of labels | 20:10 |
| Matthew- | ;] | 20:10 |
| wazd | Matthew-: but again, my sister currently builds medical facilities all over the russia | 20:10 |
| Matthew- | yh, good old back in the day. | 20:10 |
| wazd | Matthew-: she hardly makes more than $50k a year | 20:11 |
| wazd | Matthew-: and she does hell of a job | 20:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: adjust for taxes | 20:11 |
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| RST38h | wazd: 13% in .RU, >=35% everywhere else | 20:12 |
| Matthew- | wazd: well i do nothing. | 20:12 |
| Matthew- | and i get hella a lot for what i do | 20:12 |
| wazd | Rst38h: anyway | 20:12 |
| wazd | Rst38h: 150k and 50k | 20:12 |
| ifreq | heh i just made my n900 as security cam | 20:12 |
| ifreq | :) | 20:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yea, it does not reach 150k by any measure of course | 20:13 |
| Matthew- | wazd: dont compare russia and central london | 20:13 |
| Matthew- | ifreq: How? | 20:13 |
| Matthew- | ifreq: ur getting rl stream ?:D | 20:13 |
| wazd | Matthew-: like I said, there's no way to make that much money in Russia without crime | 20:13 |
| Matthew- | wazd: ofc there is :D | 20:14 |
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| wazd | Matthew-: with crime - easy) | 20:14 |
| ifreq | Matthew-: nope, one daemon | 20:14 |
| ifreq | :) | 20:14 |
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| RST38h | wazd: But it still comes down to relatively healthy 67k with taxes considered | 20:14 |
| ifreq | doing some crosscompiling on stuff ive interested | 20:14 |
| gonX | adeus: older kernel worked | 20:14 |
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| wazd | Rst38h: what taxes?)) | 20:15 |
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| wazd | Rst38h: from bribes? ) | 20:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: No, I meant that pretty lawful 50k | 20:15 |
| RST38h | $150k is problematic to make honestly anywhere in the world, I am afraid | 20:15 |
| wazd | Ah | 20:15 |
| Matthew- | wazd: Goldman Sachs in Moscow | 20:16 |
| wazd | matthew-: advocates?) | 20:16 |
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| Matthew- | RST38h: ok 150k a year in central london is easy | 20:16 |
| Matthew- | wazd: finance | 20:16 |
| Matthew- | wazd: my friend was head of compliants for reuters in moscow | 20:16 |
| RST38h | Matthew: What would be the tax on that? | 20:16 |
| Matthew- | and he was getting over 200k | 20:17 |
| wazd | Matthew-: aaaaw, analysis ) | 20:17 |
| Matthew- | RST38h: 50% | 20:17 |
| Matthew- | wazd: no, investments | 20:17 |
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| RST38h | Matthew: Then you are in effect getting only 75k :) | 20:17 |
| Matthew- | RST38h: well im getting more than that :D | 20:17 |
| RST38h | Matthew: ;) | 20:17 |
| wazd | Matthew-: yeah, these guys makes a lot for shit talking ) | 20:17 |
| Matthew- | RST38h: average compensation per employee this year was 498k | 20:17 |
| Matthew- | per employee | 20:17 |
| Matthew- | wazd: thats what I said | 20:17 |
| RST38h | Matthew: Finance? | 20:17 |
| Matthew- | RST38h: yep | 20:18 |
| derf | I would argue that GS is not exactly high on the "lawful" list. | 20:18 |
| RST38h | Matthew: Paying in the same product they are making? ;) | 20:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, ehehehe | 20:19 |
| wazd | I prefer to get money for something serious | 20:19 |
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| wazd | Not talking) | 20:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: like... mergers and takeovers? ;) | 20:19 |
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| hatseflats | luke-jr: the device won't register as attached to my usb bus | 20:21 |
| hatseflats | the adapter is disconnected, the battery of the n810 is as empty as it can be (I can't charge it because of the reboot loop) | 20:22 |
| hatseflats | what now? | 20:22 |
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| Matthew- | wazd: Hmm, in my 14 peoples team | 20:23 |
| Matthew- | we've got average £1m | 20:23 |
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| * RST38h killed 14 copies of Modest today, all lingering in memory | 20:23 | |
| luke-jr | hatseflats: AC power | 20:23 |
| RST38h | WTF? | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: threads? | 20:24 |
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| wazd | Matthew-: what are you doing?) | 20:24 |
| hatseflats | luke-jr: like hook up the adapter? or attach wires to the battery connectors and find a AC source? | 20:24 |
| Matthew- | wazd: i manage semiconductors/technology | 20:24 |
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| Matthew- | related investments | 20:25 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: look like proceses to me | 20:25 |
| wazd | Matthew-: cool | 20:25 |
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| hatseflats | luke-jr: could you please explain more clearly? | 20:29 |
| Matthew- | wazd: it is. | 20:29 |
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| ShadowJK | hatseflats: do you have any equipment for electric work? | 20:32 |
| hatseflats | ShadowJK: some, but It'd rather not start soldering wires to the poles | 20:33 |
| hatseflats | basics like voltmeters, gluegun etc | 20:33 |
| ShadowJK | voltage reading on battery and ac adapter would be interesting | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | oyuter contacts on battery, the middle one is just some lame signaling | 20:34 |
| adeus | gonX, you should report the issue | 20:34 |
| hatseflats | reading 2.67 volts | 20:35 |
| ShadowJK | In general, the n8x0 can't run straight on power through charge port | 20:35 |
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| hatseflats | no, it can't | 20:35 |
| hatseflats | that's my basic problem | 20:35 |
| hatseflats | or over usb, but that's another rant | 20:35 |
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| ShadowJK | I don't know about Nokia, but if I designed a charger I would feel very uneasy about ctrying to charge a battery from that low | 20:36 |
| hatseflats | suppose that's my fault for trying to start the n810 that often, further draining the battery | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | n8x0 has a hardware limit of 2.8V before it boots... and sd/flash probably stops working before that :/ | 20:37 |
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| hatseflats | regardless, I don't have an obvious way of charging the battery, the n810 won't boot off the AC adapter that came with it, and power can't be supplied over USB either | 20:38 |
| hatseflats | so unless I hook up some similar battery by hacking the connectors on the board or whatnot it's a catch22 | 20:38 |
| hatseflats | or something like that | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | and the ac adapter's output is not suitable for supplying to N810 battery bay either | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | yep, it is | 20:38 |
| hatseflats | so, what you're saying is, I'm fucked and there's nothing I can really do at all | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | hatseflats: charge your battery with another nokia device | 20:39 |
| hatseflats | Stskeeps: don't have any other nokia device that fits this battery | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | well... there's the 10 dollar battery lottery on ebay, or 20-ish for something less random :) | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | hatseflats: go to a nokia store and ask if you can get it charged | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | or buy a fresh one | 20:40 |
| hatseflats | grmbl | 20:40 |
| hatseflats | oh well | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | hatseflats, have you tried plugging the charger in and leaving it overnight? | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | or does it start the reboot loop when you do that? | 20:40 |
| hatseflats | mgedmin: starts the loop | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | ouch | 20:41 |
| hatseflats | I don't get why nokia wouldn't build in a low-level charging routine in ther e anyway | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | hatseflats: there was a bug in th regard, so | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | I got the impression there is one | 20:41 |
| hatseflats | or why in the name of reason they need software to charge | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | if the software isn't running, the charging works, but very very slowly and carefully | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | sw is needed to enable high-performance charging | 20:41 |
| mgedmin | this is all hearsay | 20:42 |
| hatseflats | hmmm | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | either from this channel or from what people said on the mailing list | 20:42 |
| ShadowJK | li-ion degrades quicköy when it sits at 2.6V a day or two at that, and the N810 wouldn't be able to charge it anyway, even if you had initially managed to charge it elsewhere :/ | 20:42 |
| hatseflats | so if I can get it to stop looping and just leave it for a night or something like that, it should be okay? | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | getting somebody from Nokia to reply with advice might be good | 20:42 |
| mgedmin | I don't feel qualified to say whether that would be ok or not | 20:42 |
| hatseflats | okay | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | I wouldn't want to leave a reboot loop overnight | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | rebooting eats a lot of battery power | 20:43 |
| hatseflats | no, definitively not | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | probably more than the charger supplies during that time period | 20:43 |
| ShadowJK | nokia care will pop in a new battery and charge you retail price plus, if it works with that.. | 20:43 |
| hatseflats | but there where points where it stopped looping, I figured itwas because it had drained all it could form the battery | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | especially if the charging sw is not up yet | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | a new battery sounds like a good idea | 20:43 |
| mgedmin | or talking to nokia care | 20:43 |
| hatseflats | okay | 20:43 |
| hatseflats | sounds good. Actually, it doesn't, but I ain't got no other choices :) | 20:44 |
| hatseflats | thanks guys | 20:44 |
| mgedmin | there are standalone nokia battery chargers, aren't there? | 20:44 |
| hatseflats | yes there are | 20:44 |
| hatseflats | with the repairtechs | 20:44 |
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| hatseflats | same as fake batteries that hook up to ac power directly for testing purposes | 20:44 |
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| ShadowJK | the ac adapter output isnt suitable for connecting direct to n810 battery contacts... and not suitable to connect straight to battery either... | 20:45 |
| ShadowJK | about to get busy at work, back in 90 minutes or so | 20:45 |
| hatseflats | ShadowJK: a 'fake' battery, that just drains directly from AC and emulates battery behaviour | 20:46 |
| hatseflats | for testing purposes, they use it for repair / warrenty techs | 20:46 |
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| tybollt | hmm | 21:00 |
| tybollt | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36662&page=2 | 21:00 |
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| pupnik | i am multitasking all my stuff on n900. pc is almodt a dinosaaur now | 21:10 |
| esaym153 | rofl | 21:13 |
| |R | is anyone able to sync their tabs in weave / fennec ? | 21:15 |
| |R | bookmarks work, history too, but tabs say "remote tabs are being synced..." and it's been 10 minutes | 21:15 |
| odin_ | where is the auto-optifier script ? (what is it called) ? | 21:17 |
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| jebba | maemo-optify | 21:29 |
| * dottedmag suspects it's a FAQ, but anyway - is it possible to sync N900 with something on Linux desktop without using third-party server? | 21:31 | |
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| jebba | rsync? | 21:36 |
| dottedmag | Ugh. Sync addressbook, I meant. | 21:36 |
| Shapeshifter | whoooooo, finally my n900 sits ready for pickup at the retailer | 21:36 |
| dottedmag | With all funny 3-way-merges etc. | 21:36 |
| zash | Shapeshifter: EEEENVY! | 21:36 |
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| villager | sure, just run syncevolution 1.0 beta (or opensync, if you can make it work) on the desktop | 21:37 |
| Shapeshifter | zash: well, everyone else already has one, no? | 21:37 |
| zash | Shapeshifter: not me :( ... yet | 21:37 |
| Shapeshifter | zash: which country? | 21:37 |
| zash | sweden | 21:37 |
| Shapeshifter | zash: mhh, no clue about sweeden. the n900 arrived here in switzerland only 3 days ago, though. | 21:37 |
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| pajp | can I paste text into an arbitrary text field? I copied my WPA key from the X Terminal, but I'm too stupid to understand how I can paste it into the WPA password field in the WLAN connection wizard | 21:39 |
| dottedmag | villager: so, n900 just provides a syncml client? | 21:39 |
| zash | dottedmag: try ctrl+v ? | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | pajp: ctrl-v? | 21:39 |
| pajp | uh, too obvious. :-) | 21:39 |
| * pajp tries | 21:39 | |
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| villager | dottedmag: nokia provides a built-in funambol-based syncml thing in the n900 that works over bluetooth/usb but not the internet, syncevolution 1.0 beta on the desktop should be able to connect to it without installing anything on the n900, I think, haven't tried | 21:40 |
| dottedmag | villager: cool, thanks. will try. | 21:41 |
| villager | dottedmag: if you want to do syncml over tcp/ip then you've got to also install syncevolution on the n900 | 21:41 |
| pajp | SpeedEvil: thanks! (and zash too I assumed was answering me) | 21:41 |
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| dottedmag | I'm still confused about the topology of SyncML stuff. Clients? Servers? p2p synchronization? | 21:41 |
| AndrewFBlack | How do I put screenshot on downloads.maemo.org | 21:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | random: gnuplot plot [0:1] x,10 works, plot 10,[0:1] x doesnot... | 21:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Thoughts? | 21:42 |
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| plastun | hello! How can I upload packages to diablo-extras? | 21:47 |
| villager | dottedmag: I do suspect that nokia's syncml can act as both a client and server... a client if the pc tells it to sync, and a server if you go into the n900 menus and tell it to fetch contacts from your old phone | 21:47 |
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| villager | dottedmag: in syncml, the client is the "dumb" part, the server is the one doing all the merging | 21:48 |
| dottedmag | villager: well, that makes sense | 21:48 |
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| dottedmag | villager: and is syncevolution a client or server? | 21:49 |
| villager | dottedmag: 0.9 is only a client, 1.0 adds server capabilities | 21:49 |
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| dottedmag | Well, pieces of puzzle start falling in place. And SyncML client is not necessarily the component that initiates the connection, right? | 21:51 |
| dottedmag | So server running on desktop may start sync with client running on phone. | 21:51 |
| villager | I don't think so, no, but I'm not an expert here | 21:52 |
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| villager | if you connect to the phone over bluetooth, then the pc can presumably send a command that asks the phone to start syncing with the pc as a client | 21:53 |
| villager | the phone is the client, that is | 21:53 |
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| dottedmag | well, that's exactly what I meant. | 21:54 |
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| dpro | hi | 21:55 |
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| dpro | I guess some of you have noticed that sb occasionally loses it's network connection anyone figured out why that is (and possibly how to fix it) ?? | 21:57 |
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| Stskeeps | evening RevdKathy | 22:07 |
| odin_ | jebba, thanks for reply (re optify) | 22:07 |
| RevdKathy | Evening Stskeeps, evening all | 22:07 |
| RevdKathy | Talkative in here tonight! | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | friday evening, people's out drinking or on talk.maemo.org complaining about no harmattan on n900 rumours | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: how is optification heuristics specified? | 22:10 |
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| mikhas | Stskeeps, isnt the idea that with the n900, you could do both at the same time? | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | mikhas: true, true | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | given enough RAM | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | two widget libs in RAM at once = badness. | 22:12 |
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| pupnik | the approach of maemo is audacious in all it strives to support | 22:14 |
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| dmj7261 | Hi shinkamui | 22:33 |
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| penguinbait | got to love firestorms!! | 22:40 |
| odin_ | does the auto-build system allow me to send arbitrary stuff to build upto it ? without creating a project, to test the environment works as expected ? | 22:45 |
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| AndrewFBlack | how do you put screenshots on downloads.maemo.org? | 22:47 |
| frals | AndrewFBlack: log in, get the midgardmenu stuff and press Page-> edit | 22:49 |
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| frals | on your package download site | 22:49 |
| jebba | odin_: i think anything you submit to it that builds gets dropped into extras-devel. What exactly are you wanting? Perhaps you could build it on another box. | 22:49 |
| AndrewFBlack | frals thanks | 22:49 |
| frals | np | 22:49 |
| AndrewFBlack | it says locked but I would assume thats because its a new package ? | 22:50 |
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| b-man17 | OMG I'M SOOOO HAPPY I JUST GOT MY N900!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 22:52 |
| * b-man17 unboxes it | 22:52 | |
| frals | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/maemo-org/ thats the page you want to edit I assume AndrewFBlack | 22:52 |
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| AndrewFBlack | frals, yeah | 22:52 |
| AndrewFBlack | grats b-man17 | 22:52 |
| frals | does it say locked when you press edit or when you try to submit the screenshot? because i can press edit just fine on it at least | 22:53 |
| Matthew- | hey frals | 22:53 |
| b-man17 | wow, it's quite small! xD | 22:53 |
| Matthew- | when fmms is going to testing?:) | 22:53 |
| frals | Matthew-: uh, its gonna be a while before that ;) | 22:54 |
| Matthew- | lol | 22:54 |
| Matthew- | frals: would be funny if they implement it with next upgrade | 22:55 |
| frals | seeing as they have said they have no such plans, i'd find it highly unlikely ;) | 22:55 |
| Matthew- | Oh did they | 22:55 |
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| frals | Matthew-: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=486420&postcount=367 | 22:57 |
| Matthew- | frals: Oh you little star :* | 22:57 |
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| dmj7261 | Anyone notice iphone users getting jealous of the n900? | 22:58 |
| Matthew- | dmj7261: yeah | 22:58 |
| Matthew- | frals: Hmmmm they want to kill you | 22:58 |
| Matthew- | and obduct you | 22:59 |
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| Matthew- | frals: isnt the Maemo HQ in Espoo ? :> | 22:59 |
| AndrewFBlack | frals when I press edit | 22:59 |
| frals | I wouldn't know, either way I'm going to Helsinki :P | 23:00 |
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| Matthew- | frals: Oh are you? | 23:00 |
| frals | AndrewFBlack: weird | 23:00 |
| AndrewFBlack | frals, This object was locked by Nick Leppänen Larsson. Lock will expire on 01/29/10 23:49:03. is what it says | 23:00 |
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| frals | oh lol | 23:00 |
| Matthew- | frals: ifreq is from helsinki! :-) | 23:00 |
| frals | thats me, guess it locked it when i pressed edit :P | 23:00 |
| dmj7261 | I've been noticing that iphone users generally get jealous when they see the n900. | 23:01 |
| AndrewFBlack | frals, lol ok | 23:01 |
| frals | wonder how I release that lock... :P | 23:01 |
| frals | funny how I managed to lock your page, I jsut picked the first one I saw on downloads :P | 23:01 |
| AndrewFBlack | I might just have to wait lol | 23:01 |
| AndrewFBlack | so anyone can edit a page? | 23:02 |
| frals | seems like it | 23:02 |
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| * frals stays away from them pages from now on lol | 23:03 | |
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| pupnik | my geforce gtx 260 gpu core is at 32 deg celsius. do we have a temp sensor on n900? | 23:04 |
| pajp | why cant I apt-get install from a root shell? it just says "Abort." and exits | 23:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, yes. | 23:06 |
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| felipec | zaheerm: ping | 23:10 |
| AndrewFBlack | do you have to open fmms to download mms? | 23:11 |
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| frals | AndrewFBlack: unless the correct connection was opened when it arrived, yes | 23:11 |
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| AOK | re | 23:13 |
| AOK | guys any ideas why My google talk is not working | 23:14 |
| AOK | ? | 23:14 |
| AOK | Nokia N900\ | 23:14 |
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| AOK | It goes with error in network | 23:16 |
| pobega | is there any way to get the application manager to respect some sort of preference file? /etc/apt/preferences doesn't seem to work, and I'd like to pin a package. | 23:16 |
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| tybollt | hmmm what repo is the gadget that gives you snap to grid in? | 23:17 |
| AndrewFBlack | looks like I goig to have to redue my numbers in contacts they all have - in them and fmms doesn´t like it | 23:19 |
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| pupnik | y'all should use synergy when setting n900 on the desk. it's real fun. | 23:22 |
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| AOK | soo | 23:23 |
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| AOK | any info on the GTALK and OVI error message? | 23:23 |
| AOK | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=489755#post489755 | 23:23 |
| AOK | http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/STUN | 23:23 |
| AOK | So far these two didin't helped :-( | 23:23 |
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| pupnik | i don't use gtalk | 23:27 |
| pupnik | what's cool about it AOK? | 23:27 |
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| AOK | Well just wanted to have all coversations optiond on. Additionally I hope they will embede FB Chat pupnik | 23:29 |
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| AOK | ;-) | 23:29 |
| slops17 | any one have instructions on putting debian on the n900? | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Don't put debian on floppies on the n900 - it might squash it. CDs and DVDs are fine. | 23:30 |
| zash | SpeedEvil: what, can't it handle 7k floppies beeing stacked on it? | 23:31 |
| pupnik | hey we have a free phone app yet? | 23:32 |
| Quibus | Is there someone in the room who knows about packaging? I'm trying to port a Debian package | 23:33 |
| Quibus | It contains a patch as well. I was wondering if that patch is supposed to be auto-applied by dpkg-buildpkg or if I should do it manually. In the latter case, will it be auto-patched in the autobuilder? | 23:34 |
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| mtnbkr | cool... Just found Vagalume for streaming from last.fm/Libre.fm Nice | 23:39 |
| thresh | i wish there was a last.fm scrobbling plugin for media player | 23:40 |
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| pupnik | last.fm has a huge selection. how is the price? | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | thresh: I saw wsome plugins dfor media player I think int eh repos | 23:42 |
| thresh | is it me who stoned | 23:42 |
| * SpeedEvil passes thresh a pile of cookies, and observes the results. | 23:42 | |
| thresh | om nom nom | 23:43 |
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| thresh | anyway, i think those are for canola | 23:43 |
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| AOK-N | re | 23:49 |
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| * Stskeeps watches the m6 on n900 thread | 23:50 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, having fun? :P | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: my head hurts from banging it so much against the wall | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, hehe. | 23:52 |
| frade | hi, is there any document explaining how to optify a python application? | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: did i post in this thread anywhere? | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, no idea. | 23:54 |
| * Stskeeps looks for his distmaster cap | 23:54 | |
| b-man17 | Stskeeps: btw, i've gotten my n900 now :) | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | b-man17: may god have mercy on us all | 23:54 |
| b-man17 | lol | 23:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I still want to hack together a plugin that lets Quim put the appropriate cap on his avatar when posting. | 23:56 |
| b-man17 | the best part is that i haven't seen any of the issues that people have been complaining about on tmo xD | 23:56 |
| visz | just tried 'hermes' for n900 | 23:57 |
| visz | quite nice | 23:57 |
| visz | updated contacts with information from facebook | 23:57 |
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| visz | including pictures and birthdays | 23:57 |
| thresh | it is indeed | 23:57 |
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