IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-01-27

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blizzowdoes anyone know if Nokia is taking the reigns on releasing MMS support for the N900 eventually?00:00
henkie-there we go00:01
timeless_mbpoh00:01
* timeless_mbp finds the dialog00:01
timeless_mbpyeah, that's cute00:01
timeless_mbpthere's no way this is going to work00:01
timeless_mbpanyway, once you get a happy picture of the string not fitting at all00:02
timeless_mbpplease file a bug @ bugs.maemo.org and attach the picture00:02
timeless_mbpit's in um00:02
henkie-just did00:02
cpscottihenkie- the screenshots go to "Images" folder00:02
henkie-yeah, just mounted the usb-storage00:02
timeless_mbpcpscotti: he's using Dutch00:03
cpscottiwooops...00:03
timeless_mbpAfbeeldingen00:03
timeless_mbpthe actual directory is .images00:04
timeless_mbpthen Screenshots00:04
cpscottiyeep00:04
* timeless_mbp frowns00:05
* timeless_mbp has no idea what this is doing00:05
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* timeless_mbp debates asking for specs00:05
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lardmanre00:05
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Damion2paul42: is your volume down?00:08
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lcukblizzow, the mms project is principally in a community mode, i would consider asking frals more when he thinks he is ready to do some integration work :) its entirely prototype at this stage.00:10
* lardman wonders if half the conversations in this channel are simply missed by his "wonderful" client00:11
lcukand ontop of that request, i hope you have tested it yourself and added your settings to the thread/wiki page growing up around his amazing project00:11
paul42Damion2: It's not mute00:11
henkie-http://ev18.kicks-ass.org/n900/     found00:11
henkie-+them00:11
lcuklardman, which client you using00:11
fralslardman: the key is to scrollup and read backlog ;>00:12
henkie-Screenshot-20100126-230109.png  shows the text not fitting00:12
Damion2paul42: in my experience alsamixer helps, even if suff looks up often some audio channel somewhere is down00:12
Jaffalardman: I think you'll find the answer is00:12
Jaffalardman: Hopefully that makes it clear.00:12
Jaffalardman: like qgil just said00:13
* Jaffa muwahahahas00:13
fralshaha00:13
Damion2I think I can make mms work but it's not pretty00:13
lardmanvirc00:13
lcukDamion2, then liase with the principle developer whos talking here right now \@/00:13
lardmanhmm, I see nothing relevant, only joined at ~20.3000:13
Damion2logic with whether dialed on to wifi and brining up -host route for gprs000:13
Damion2I mentioned I'd do some shell for the logic00:14
lardmanbut then am doing something else, do don't worry00:14
paul42Damion2: hmmm, there's just one channel, up00:14
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Damion2paul42: that's exhausted my knowledge/caring ;)00:15
paul42ok, thanks :)00:15
fralsDamion2: keep me posted on ways to bring gprs0 up when wlan0/gprs1 is up without breaking stuff :)00:15
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lardmanJaffa: did that make sense? Is that your drinking or mine? ;)00:15
Damion2gprs should never be needed if already up.  unless there are providers who don't share APN00:16
paul42Oh, BTW, another question which is not related at all00:16
fralsDamion2: a lot of them dont :p00:16
paul42What the best way to reach the GPS (in C++)00:16
* lardman wonders if perhaps it's all happening in a different #maemo-* channel....00:16
paul42I've heard about gpsd, geoclue00:16
Damion2paul42: you could try killing PA and testing, you'll probably need to reboot after00:16
VDVsxlardman, nah, its your "wonderful" client :D00:16
* VDVsx is kidding 00:16
lardmanpaul42: liblocation00:16
RST38hsleep.00:17
paul42Damion2: I've tried. Doesn't help because alsa is trying to reach PA00:17
ScribbleJ#maemo-nolardman00:17
paul42lardman: and what about dbus?00:17
lardmanVDVsx: may well be, I've had people cursing me for not responding to PMs when my client wouldn't bother displaying them00:17
lardmanScribbleJ: ah that one, ok ;)00:17
Damion2frals: a lot of provider suggest different APN but it would work anyway?  or a lot _require_ different APN?00:17
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henkie-but anyway, screenshots dont solve my lockcode problem  :)00:17
* RST38h reads "not responding to PMS"00:17
VDVsxlardman, what are you using ?00:17
lardmanpaul42: what do you want to do with it?00:17
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* RST38h goes to sleep happy00:17
ScribbleJlardman:  xchat FTW00:17
lardmanRST38h: that too!00:17
* Damion2 idles for heroes with wife00:18
fralsDamion2: judging by the amount of people complaining about settings im fairly sure they require different APN, i could be wrong though :)00:18
lardmanRunning under WinXP atm and xchat is not free under Windows unless you compile it yourself, at least last time I checked00:18
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paul42lardman: I just want to know how to have the coordinates of the user00:18
paul42lardman: for Fennec00:18
ScribbleJlardman, fair enough... run it on your maemo device!  :P00:18
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lardmanfrals: I must admit I've had troubles too, though haven't complained because I need to RTFM first00:18
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Damion2frals: they moan as it IS a pain, doesn't mean they tried ;)00:19
lcuklardman, xchat2 afaik00:19
henkie-timeless_mbp, still need me to send the screenshot to bug @ ...  ?00:19
lcukis prebuilt00:19
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lcukfrom normal source00:19
lardmanpaul42: liblocation callback is probably the best way, not sure if you can activate the GPS using dbus00:19
VDVsxlardman, http://www.silverex.org/news/00:19
fralsDamion2: true00:19
lardmanlcuk: and free too?00:19
fralslardman: hehe, just ping me if you need help ;)00:19
timeless_mbphenkie-: yes00:19
timeless_mbpyou need to file a bug00:19
henkie-ok00:19
timeless_mbpi mean, you could make me do it00:19
timeless_mbpbut you found it00:19
lardmanfrals: will do, need to check on the Vodafone UK mms settings first though00:20
fralsim looking forward to pushing this next release which breaks stuff horribly wrt old messages stored00:20
henkie-sending an email is no problem00:20
lardmanfrals: np here as I've not actually received one yet ;)00:20
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lcuklardman, from his site "I am making an unofficial free X-Chat (UNIX IRC client) build for Windows, compiled on Windows XP SP2 with Microsoft Visual Studio .NET 2003 Enterprise Architect C/C++ compiler."00:20
timeless_mbphenkie-: not email00:21
lcukhttp://www.silverex.org/features/00:21
timeless_mbpvisit https://bugs.maemo.org00:21
lardmanlcuk: cool, thanks00:21
timeless_mbpcreate an account00:21
timeless_mbpfile a bug00:21
timeless_mbpafter you've created the bug, create an attachment00:21
timeless_mbphttp://ev18.kicks-ass.org/n900/Screenshot-20100126-230113.png00:21
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timeless_mbpis the one that matters00:21
timeless_mbpplease describe exactly which locale/region you're using and exactly which things you hit00:22
timeless_mbp(tap top left corner, tap 'Instellingen', tap the title area)00:22
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timeless_mbpit's awful fwiw00:23
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timeless_mbpthey recycled a string, which is totally illegal00:23
timeless_mbpfor exactly this reason00:23
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* lardman hopes this binary isn't one of lcuk's CC scam keyloggers ;)00:24
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dotblankok00:24
lcuknahh but timeless provided a translation which includes a block of shellcode to the same effect ;)00:24
dotblankNow this may seem a bit crazy00:24
dotblankbut here is my vell phone solution/crazyness00:25
dotblankPlease ignore the crudeness of my drawing00:25
timeless_mbplcuk: well, my translations add a sudo script :)00:25
lardmanlcuk: I've come to expect that from timeless's translations by now00:25
dotblankcell*00:25
henkie-oops :)00:25
dotblankhttp://imgur.com/sTKY0.jpg00:25
* timeless_mbp frowns00:25
timeless_mbphenkie-: fwiw00:26
timeless_mbpi have that menu item too00:26
timeless_mbpi suspect it's a bug00:26
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timeless_mbpit probably shouldn't be appearing at all00:26
dotblankMy cell phone setup is mad crazy00:26
timeless_mbpbut that's an unrelated problem :(00:26
lardmangood good00:26
lcukdotblank, im sensing since gtalk is part of issue 1#,#2 and #3 that there is a common thing00:26
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timeless_mbphenkie-: this dialog should be for when your operator subsidizes the purchase of your phone00:27
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dotblanklcuk, this set up doesnot use gtalk at all00:27
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timeless_mbpand after your 2 year subscription you say "hey, i've paid for my phone, i'd like you to give me the sim unlock so i can use it w/ another carrier"00:27
henkie-timeless_mbp, aha, makes sense00:27
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timeless_mbphenkie-: anyway00:27
timeless_mbponce you've filed the "this doesn't fit" bug00:27
lcuks/gtalk/gvoice/00:27
infobotlcuk meant: dotblank, im sensing since gvoice is part of issue 1#,#2 and #3 that there is a common thing00:27
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timeless_mbpyou're welcome to file the "why are you showing me a menu item for a non locked phone" bug00:27
lcukholy crap i did a regex properly \o/00:28
dotblankWell the problem is that 3 fold.. skype doesnt like dtmf tones on the n900 dialpad00:28
fralscongrats lcuk ;D00:28
timeless_mbphenkie-: fwiw, there are rewards for filing bugs00:28
dotblankTmo prepaid will not let me set my voicemail to gvoice00:28
henkie-timeless_mbp, you are right. The found the real unlock code at the bottom of the settings menu  :)00:29
henkie-works like a charm00:29
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timeless_mbpi presume you mean something in 'Phone'00:29
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dotblankI would forward gvoice to skype verizon and n900 but n900 will get the skype call and miss the landline.. which is ok but it generates missed call events and it is random with what service reaches my phone first00:30
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mikhaslcuk, only for you: http://xkcd.com/208/ (obligatory)00:30
* timeless_mbp kicks finland00:30
timeless_mbpat least 12 hours, on more than 2400:30
timeless_mbpis translated 12-2300:31
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timeless_mbpthey lost an hour in translation00:31
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henkie-timeless_mbp, different timezone i'd guess  :P00:31
lcuk:D mikhas amazing!  xkcd has an answer for everything00:31
timeless_mbphenkie-: NCIS, Rock Creek Park, Washington, D.C.00:31
timeless_mbpso yes, different time zone :)00:31
henkie-translations always/most of the time look 'plastic'00:32
lcukdotblank, so individually all the providers "work" its just cos you are trying to route them up each others backends it fails00:33
lcuk?00:33
timeless_mbphenkie-: eh?00:33
dotblanklcuk, each provider works.. its just im trying to unify it under gvoice00:33
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Jaffalardman: And that's when the bishop said "not in *my* church!"00:35
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lardmanhmm :)00:35
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dotblankI could set a forwarding filter on gvoice but skypes caller id inbound is the callers' caller id which makes it impossible00:36
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ph1li have a question about flasher-3.5 and the option  -b, --boot[=ARG] -> anybody know if this replaces the whole kernel-argument-list within NOLO or is this a temporary thing?00:38
ph1ldoes it overwrite the init= argument?00:39
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Stskeepsph1l: honestly i'm not sure if the arg works for the kernel.00:41
Stskeepsespecailly since CMDLINE is hardcoded in kernels00:41
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timeless_mbpiirc it's temporary00:42
ph1lis there a more detailed explanation of the options of flasher-3.5 than http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher?00:42
timeless_mbpbut do *not* trust me00:42
Stskeepsph1l: no, but feel free to ask them on maemo-developers00:42
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* timeless_mbp doesn't really use flasher00:42
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ph1lanybody willing to assist me when i have to reflash NOLO?  :-)00:43
ph1lthanks Stskeeps and timeless_mbp00:43
Stskeepsnot really. i don't believe in assisted device suicide.00:43
timeless_mbpi'm not sure this is covered by your warranty :)00:44
timeless_mbpStskeeps++00:44
ds3isn't there JTAG? ;)00:44
ph1lnah.. its for good pourposes :-)00:44
__ibzwhats the command to enable the voice dialler on rotate?00:44
ds3or maybe SD boot?00:44
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jon1012__ibz: voice dialer ?!00:46
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* lardman tries some super-resolution stitching magic00:51
lardmanCSI-stylee00:51
lcukon the shelf behind you00:51
lcukthere, zoom into the bar area00:51
lardmannah, already got a beer on the go, thanks00:52
lardman:)00:52
lcukok, now closer on that bottle00:52
woglindehi lcuk00:52
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mikhasto be fair, it was bladerunner that started that00:52
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lcukgood, now i see its a 1972, excellent, zoom rotate00:52
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lcukand drink00:52
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lardmanhmm, I wonder what an IR image of a cold beer bottle would look like, dark I imagine00:52
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lcukhi woglinde00:52
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* lardman must remember to take a beer to the lab for testing purposes00:53
lcukhaha00:53
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__ibzjon1012: like this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZu3nku2uM01:00
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__ibzjon1012: 20s in01:01
__ibzah, i meant phone dialer, not voice dialer01:01
lardmanlcuk: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/temp/untitled.jpg and we wonder why the yank miss with their predator drones ;)01:02
lardmans/yank/yanks01:02
lardmans/yanks/lovely Americans01:02
lardman;)01:02
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mikhasis that a bottle of beer?01:05
lardmanno, my office01:05
lardmanthough quite hard to tell ;)01:05
lardmanis a low res camera01:05
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lcuklardman, ir cam?01:06
lardmanyep01:06
andre__hmm, where does the media player on the N900 stores the playlists?01:06
lcukn900+colored lens or real one?01:06
lardmanreal microbolometer array IR long wave camera01:07
lcukneat!  as always, science being used for the proper purposes01:07
lcukandre__, ooo not sure dude01:07
lardmanand long wave as in significanly shorter than you get by removing the IR filter in a normal CCD camera01:07
lcuki dont make them01:07
* andre__ not the first person asking this, found an answered thread in tmo too01:08
lardmanandre__: gconf?01:08
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andre__now that's a funky idea, let's see...01:08
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andre__hmm, cannot see a schema for that01:09
lardmantwas just a guess, sorry01:10
GeneralAntillesblizzow, no.01:10
GeneralAntillesblizzow, Nokia has no plans to support MMS.01:10
GeneralAntillesblizzow, however they are endeavoring to support the community support.01:10
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GeneralAntillesds3, serial pads under the battery.01:13
GeneralAntillesandre__, somewhere in MAFW? :P01:13
ds3GA: thought there were JTAG pads too?01:13
ds3on the N800, I think01:14
andre__...or tracker :-P01:14
henkie-is PyQT4 available for this platform?01:14
GeneralAntillesds3, don't think there are enough pins.01:14
ds3I've used the serial pads on the 800 before01:14
ds3hmm01:15
GeneralAntillesds3, USB, serial, and something else for cellular stuff, I think.01:15
GeneralAntillesds3, the are 3 sets of pads.01:15
VDVsxhenkie-, yes01:15
GeneralAntillesds3, could be JTAG, dunno, though.01:15
VDVsxextras-devel IIRC01:15
ds3GA: which model?01:16
* GeneralAntilles is still a touch too noob at this to say for sure.01:16
GeneralAntillesds3, N900.01:16
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GeneralAntillesEhehe01:17
* GeneralAntilles ponders evil things about iPhone OS MacBooks.01:17
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javispedroah, they're still optimist about harmattan in the rover.01:20
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ShadowJKwho?01:21
javispedrotmo.01:21
ShadowJKYes well, considering the average TMO quality lately, I wouldn't be surprise they'd still be optimistic about the earth being flat01:22
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lardmanand next you;re going to say it;s not riding on the back of a giant tortoise aren't you?01:23
lardmanor even sugges that the apostrophe is better used to indicate a missing letter than the semi-colon....01:24
ml-mobilehow many pads are there per set?01:24
javispedrowhere is that ovi maps free thread? I am bored and want to slam someone's optimism.01:24
LuserN800I'm about to buy from tigertiger, anyone has opinion on them?01:24
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GeneralAntillesml-mobile, I'd tell you, but my uptime is over 10 days and I don't feel like taking out the battery. ;)01:25
ml-mobileaha01:25
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andre__javispedro,  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ovi+maps+free+site%3Atalk.maemo.org&l=1  ? ;-)01:26
VDVsxjavispedro,  harmattan in the 770 FTW ;)01:26
javispedroandre__: what did you do! now I have even more incentive to troll :)01:26
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* jon1012 hopes android will be available soon for his n900 :)01:28
jon1012at least there are some decent mapping stuff on android01:28
threshyeah screw maemo, java ftw01:28
jon1012:D01:28
javispedrothis remembers me when people bought palmos devices then asked for windows mobile01:28
woglindethresh java should work01:28
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ml-mobilenothing like mireing oneself in Java...01:28
woglindemaybee in march we have little more time to work on jalimo01:29
threshthat's what IBM folks keep telling us when their RSA software breaks01:29
mikhasI am not going to trade the speed and responsiveness of the latest fw updates for android!01:29
javispedrowell if you bought the horribly overpriced palm just to put windows mobile in it, you surely deserve wm.01:29
* thresh loved his T501:29
woglindejavis lol01:29
* VDVsx thinks that java sucks01:30
* VDVsx hides01:30
jon1012(I bought the n900 but I've been a bit disapointed :(... maybe android will help me with that :))01:30
threshit had iphone-sized screen in 200401:30
andre__mikhas: pah, you're biased! probably your company even earns some money with Maemo or so! ;-))01:30
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inzVDVsx, java is still a bliss when compared to javascript...01:31
threshnow now don't you like your firefox?01:31
ml-mobileinz: that's because Javascript and Java are totally unrelated01:31
luke-jranyone up for porting Linux to LG Apollo? 8)01:32
LuserN800well it has java still in the name ;)01:32
VDVsxinz, has java in the name what would you expect ;)01:32
inzthresh, not after "having" to code an extension it for a school project01:32
luke-jrECMAScript is far better than Java, actually <.<01:32
jon1012let's hope maemo 6 will get official release for n900 :)01:33
ml-mobileI didn't realize how many pads were open on this thing. there's easily space for serial and JTAG01:33
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inzml-mobile, no, it's because JavaSCript just sucks. Java does too, but not quite as much. (Yes, I know they're unrelated, but that's not the reason why Java is a bliss)01:33
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ph1lanybody interested in bootchart nad N900... i've written a tutorial: https://arch.nord.thebc.ch/wiki/index.php/N900_Installing_and_using_Bootchart comments welcome :-)01:33
luke-jrjon1012: it won't01:33
lcukwho still uses the n8x001:33
jon1012luke-jr: ???01:33
LuserN800ph1l, ahh good!01:34
luke-jrjon1012: Nokia has already made that clear. Maemo 6 will not support N90001:34
inzVDVsx, yeah, doesn't that mean you should multiply the suckiness of Java by the suckiness of Script =)01:34
mikhasthere once was a language called bliss ... want to know what happened to it?01:34
jon1012luke-jr: I bought a 650 euro device and I won't get any update ? I'll just put it in my ass and nothing more ? :)01:34
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luke-jrjon1012: that's how Nokia plays01:34
GeneralAntillesjon1012, you've already gotten 2 updates.01:34
lcukjon1012, with the vibration unit onboard that might be feasible01:34
woglindeluke-jr hm when was this annoucement?01:34
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, fun fact, there are, apparently, conflicting reports about it now.01:34
threshluke-jr: URL pls01:34
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: O.o01:35
VDVsxinz, lol01:35
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, though my money is still on "not".01:35
jon1012maemo device hasn't had videos of destruction by angry customers like apple device had...01:35
javispedroGeneralAntilles++01:35
jon1012it might be the first !01:35
javispedroyes please!01:35
jon1012it could do a lot of buzz01:35
lcukjon1012, actually..01:35
javispedrowill it blend?01:35
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: isn't that what you were ranting about in here earlier?01:35
lcukworld record n900fly would be good01:35
mikhasthere was that scratch-my-display test on youtube, no?01:35
lcuktrebuchet!01:35
GeneralAntillesjon1012, if it aint Blendtec then GTFO.01:35
jon1012lol01:35
mtnbkrlcuk: yes!01:35
lcuknahhh01:35
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, yup.01:35
VDVsxthere's one language called brainfuck, I can't expect anything better :D01:35
LuserN800ph1l, why does it look so much different that the one posted yesterday. like what's all these pidof???01:35
luke-jranyhow, it's starting to look like LG Apollo will be my next device01:35
lcukn900 would survive a blentec piece of crap01:36
javispedroyes01:36
javispedrodefinitely.01:36
lcuktheir weak blades wouldnt manage it01:36
lcukpiffly motor01:36
javispedrothe vibrator unit would help the n900 make its way outside the blendtec01:36
lcuktheres no hope01:36
jon1012lol01:36
lcukthats why we havent seen one yet01:36
jon1012a hammer is better01:36
lardmann900 also has a titanium backplate to stop such abuse?01:36
ph1lLuserN800: these pidof came from bootchartd itself...  don't worry about them :-)01:36
mtnbkrok, so maybe no Maemo6 for my shiney new n900, but how long will Nokia continue to maintain/update Maemo5?  That is my big concern01:36
jon1012mtnbkr: I would say 3 months ?01:37
luke-jrjon1012: if you're really upset over it, I'll pay shipping for it :P01:37
GeneralAntillesDoesn't non-free promotion already work? . . .01:37
luke-jrmtnbkr: Nokia's history says they'll stop maintaining 5 before 6 is out01:37
jon1012mtnbkr: then they will tell us to fuck ourselves with a sharp glass01:37
javispedrobasically, the blendtec guy tried to blend the n900 but he got killed by the laser hidden under the CIR emitter cover.01:37
mtnbkrluke-jr: lol THAT sucks  I hope that is not the case with Maemo501:37
ShadowJKhm, when was the last N8x0 update, and when did N900 come out? :)01:37
lcukno wai javispedro01:38
luke-jrmtnbkr: I hear rumours it's already the case.01:38
LuserN800ph1l, 235s!!! ??01:38
lcuk:(01:38
mtnbkrARG!01:38
lardmanjavispedro: was that before the cyanide capsule got him?01:38
mtnbkr:(01:38
GeneralAntillesmtnbkr, biker, PR1.2 is confirmed, the stars tell me more (and possibly larger) are likely to come after.01:38
* woglinde wonders how many android-updates G1 will have in the future01:38
luke-jrShadowJK: last N8x0 update was 2.6.21 timeframe, so at least 2 years ago01:38
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lcuklardman, you have to flex the display to release the neurotoxins01:38
ShadowJKluke-jr, nah it was 2008 sometime..01:38
lcukso it wouldnt have been that01:38
luke-jrShadowJK: it's 2010 :)01:38
lcukwe have only had one reported emmission01:38
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, yeah, no.01:38
lcukand superman is still pissed at us for that01:38
lardmanluke-jr: kernel versionrelease data  and maemo update date are not the same01:38
ShadowJKluke-jr, what, really?01:38
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, they just didn't update the kernel.01:39
ShadowJKoh fuck me, it really is 201001:39
javispedromy current prediction is that harmattan will be delayed and that we may get a larger fremantle update.01:39
javispedrothough who knows that.01:39
jon1012for example, htc hero will get android 2.1.. htc seems to care more about its customers than nokia :(01:39
lardmanhmm, I though there was an update in 2009...?01:39
lardmanlcuk: blue ringed octopus stuff there iirc?01:39
luke-jrlardman: I bought my N810 in Jan 2009; Diablo was already out01:39
ShadowJKI think it was week 42 in 2008 or something01:39
ph1lLuserN800: yeah... i've defined that bootchart should stop recording when i open a "browser".01:39
GeneralAntillesPlease see the tablet here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Future01:39
javispedrothere haven't been diablo ssus since december 200801:39
lardmanluke-jr: fair enough01:39
threshjon1012: nokia never cared about its customers01:39
ShadowJKoh it was december 2008?01:39
javispedroyep, i bought my n810 by then.01:40
ph1lLuserN800: do you know a better trigger let me know01:40
lcukthanks GeneralAntilles01:40
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GeneralAntilless/tablet/table/01:40
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Please see the table here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo#Future01:40
luke-jrI couldn't care less when Nokia abandons devices, if only they'd release the specs/code to support the hardware01:40
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javispedroas I always say, the day I buy a device, they it is abandoned by the manufacturer.01:40
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, Inverna is missing ;)01:41
javispedros/they/the day01:41
jon1012thresh: true.... I can remember having been mad at nokia because 3 months after buying my 770 they released a new device with a new os that wouldn't work on my tablet...01:41
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, feel free to fix it yourself, Wikipedia is no longer a project I invest time contributing to.01:41
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LuserN800I'm about to buy from Tigerdirect, anyone has good/bad opinion on them? I order rarely from the us but want a qwerty keyboard01:41
GeneralAntillesLuserN800, eeeeeeviiiiiiiil01:42
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, neither I, they suck, with their censorship policy, bastards!!01:42
LuserN800GeneralAntilles, :) tell me more. it runs windows? :)01:42
jon1012LuserN800: why buy a device that is already outdated ? :)01:42
javispedrooh.01:42
jon1012ahah, well I stop trolling :)01:42
GeneralAntillesjon1012, Maemo 6 aint released yet.01:42
javispedrodevices usually get more interesting by the time they're outdated.01:43
LuserN800jon1012, I am always a bit slow to react01:43
GeneralAntillesjon1012, and as I've already said, you can expect several more updates in the future.01:43
lardmansod it I'd buy another Psion 5(mx) just for the calendar01:43
mtnbkrGeneralAntilles: that's good news to my ears01:43
mtnbkrs/ears/eyes01:43
GeneralAntillesThey should be much larger in scale than PR1.1, too.01:43
luke-jrs/news/speculation ?01:43
jon1012GeneralAntilles: really ?01:43
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, scrollback.01:44
javispedroPR1.2 might have some more rotation support, for example.01:44
LuserN800jon1012, if it was serious then I think you are wrong..01:44
mtnbkrI'd like to see a properly functional IMAP email client on my n90001:44
threshi wonder why nokia doesnt ship theora in gstreamer by default01:44
threshpissed of due to patents issues?01:44
ml-mobilelittle use?01:44
lardmanthresh: worries about submarine patents01:44
lardman?01:44
threshyeah01:44
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threshprobably01:44
javispedroand they also want to promote aac.01:45
threshstupid big companies :S01:45
lardmanask derf01:45
ml-mobileanyone who wants theora will add it themselves01:45
lardmanadding video codecs is a pita though really01:45
ml-mobilesaved me rootfs sace by not including it01:45
jon1012(don't get me wrong, I'm a real maemo advocate at work, for friends and all... but nokia sometimes pisses me off a lot)01:45
ml-mobilespace*01:45
GeneralAntillesjon1012, join the club.01:45
LuserN800so I'll order from tigerdirect yes, you all convinced me01:45
javispedrojon1012: god! so you're not a fanboy.01:45
javispedros/god/good01:45
lardmans/adding/writing to use DSP01:45
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GeneralAntillesjon1012, Nokia's been pissing me off for more than 4 years.01:46
threshcortex a8 is capable of decoding some 720p01:46
lardmanyeah, mpeg though I imagine01:46
threshat least that's what ffmpeg guys achieved on beagleboard:)01:46
threshno, h26401:46
woglindelol thats fun to control windows-keyboard via kvm konsole01:46
lardmanah yes, using DSP though I thought?01:46
GeneralAntillesIt was MPEG4 (part 2) with NEON last time I checked.01:47
threshi'd say neon stuff01:47
* luke-jr wonders why people pissed off by Nokia still promote their products?01:47
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GeneralAntillesluke-jr, because they're worlds ahead of the competition.01:47
woglindefor beagleboard exist dsp h264 stuff01:47
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, and I'd like to see Maemo succeed despite its warts.01:47
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, pragmatism.01:48
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: oh, for the software?01:48
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ShadowJKffmpeg doesn't use DSP01:48
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woglindeShadowJK I know01:49
GeneralAntillesMaemo gets us Mer which gets us a mobile platform which isn't either completely useless (Anything using Enlightenment) or completely evil (Android, LiMo, etc.).01:49
ShadowJKmpeg4 part 2 is xvid/divx/mpeg4ASP isn't it..01:49
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, yes.01:49
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: KDE?01:49
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GeneralAntillesluke-jr, um, I can use KDE with my fingers?01:49
luke-jryes?01:49
* javispedro notes GeneralAntilles failed to specify finger size01:50
ml-mobileKDE is not designed for small screens. hell the standard desktop UI concept isn't01:50
javispedroand/or screen size01:50
luke-jrKDE is configurable01:51
javispedroyes, you can actually use kcontrol to edit the dialog layouts so that they all fit into 800x480!01:51
woglindejavis *g*01:52
lcukjavispedro, http://pickmeup.mlblogs.com/fb.jpg01:52
javispedrolcuk: my sources tell me that is the finger size harmattan ux people aim for >:)01:53
lcuki want one of the 4foot n900s from the nokia store01:53
lcukbut a real one01:53
lcuk:D01:54
MohammadAGslightly (or more than that) off topic, but the ps3 was hacked http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/01/heres-your-silver-platter.html01:54
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LuserN800the blackberry too01:55
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jon1012GeneralAntilles: I hope you're right about new updates coming in the future :)01:55
lcukMohammadAG, my big n900 dream isnt offtopic01:55
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MohammadAGlcuk, err wasn't talking about your n900 dream lol01:56
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wazdtime to buy PS3 as BD player I guess :D01:57
lcuklol wazd01:58
lcukhey, did you get all the testing time you needed on n900?  how do you like your themes on it?01:58
wazdwell, since it's actually one of the best players out there :)01:58
wazdlcuk: Ironicaly no :D01:58
threshand it actually has really nice games too01:58
lcukyeah you can play hopskotch with it01:59
wazdthresh: well, for 50 bucks?! :D01:59
threshthat too01:59
threshwazd: 80 bucks usually when the game is out01:59
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lcukwazd, dont tell me, angry birds took up your entire testing time?01:59
wazdlcuk: I actually had a quick overlook on n900, that's all :)02:00
* thresh is ok buying one game each two months or so02:00
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* wazd is ok stealing one game each week :D02:00
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wazdbut I'm a PC gamer :)02:01
wazdwell, PC "player", not a gamer so much02:01
threshi don't really want to buy a new pc every year02:01
lcukthen dont02:01
wazdthresh: hehe, these are the stories of the past02:01
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wazdthresh: current games are basically have the same specs02:02
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lcukthresh, purchase machine to requirements02:02
wazdthresh: thanks to consoles02:02
threshi'm fine with PS3 and switching laptops every three or four years02:03
lcukthere are still cases where games take advantage of newest tech02:03
wazdthere are almost no PC exclusive games anymore02:03
lcukbut the engines are normally now graceful enough to degrade02:03
wazdthe only game that kicked my PC's 1.5yo ass is GTA402:03
lardmangraphics cards are the big issue now, and they are relatively cheap02:03
Jaffalcuk: MWKN manual edition has been kicked off. More volunteers to contributor links via Twitter (http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Weekly_News) welcome.02:04
wazdlardman: hehe, the funny thing is that I have a bad CPU for GTA4 :)02:04
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threshthat still involves buying a decent monitor and finding a place at hoe02:04
threshhome02:04
threshwhich i don't have02:04
lardmanwazd: not dual core?02:04
wazdlardman: Athlon X2 420002:04
wazdlardman: but GTA4 is a real CPU bitch02:05
lardmanoh right02:05
wazdlardman: too much stuff happening on the screen :)02:05
lardmanturn down the res?02:05
wazdlardman: I prefered to strip down visuals a bit02:06
threshGTA4 was ok, i didnt like it much though02:06
lcukJaffa, have you seen in #mer they have a bot that can push updates02:06
lardmanmine seems ok, core2duo 2.13GHz, runs Crysis, etc., with decent graphics02:06
lcukto microblog from irc02:06
wazdthresh: dude, the radio is epic :)02:06
* thresh loves his Uncharted 2 though02:06
derfThe ARM chip can do 720p, but it chews through battery like nobody's business.02:06
wazdthresh: with this radio, gta could have a pong gameplay02:06
lcuk#mwkn lardman gets more wine.02:06
lardman?02:07
lcuksorry lol was a mwkn entry example :D02:07
lcuktho thats never news :D02:07
wazdI see consoles as a community entertainer :)02:08
wazdlike football with friends and stuff02:08
threshwazd: you mean that 'chanson' stuff radio they had in gta?02:08
wazdthresh: well, the whole radio thing02:08
lardmanyeah as in community where you can see the people you're playing against02:08
wazdthresh: ads, DJs02:09
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lcukjaffa is it the ~mwkn or a #mwkn?02:09
lcuk@mwkn02:09
lardmanwhat does that mean?02:09
threshwazd: didnt they had pretty much the same stuff in GTA3 and Vice City anyway02:09
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wazdthresh: yeah, but this never gets old :)02:10
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lcukwazd consoles have changed then02:11
lcukit never used to be community entertainer, it was however many people you could fit in your bedroom without your mum shouting02:11
Jaffalcuk: People who are contributors can use either "@mwkn <section>" or "#mwkn <section>"02:11
pupnik_extras devel hash sum mismatch!02:11
wazdAnd their... the tablet is going to be based on the iPhone operating system and so it'll be transferable02:12
lcukcool so you are picking up the #hashtag02:12
wazdhaha02:12
lcukbut filtering on editors02:12
Jaffalcuk: If they're a contributor, a bot'll pick it up and put it out under the "mwkn" account. At the end of the week, the tweets form the basis of the issue02:12
wazdipod touch for 1.5k02:12
Jaffalcuk: Correct; but other people can suggest content which a contributor can pass/fail02:12
pupnik_wtf is up with extras-devel?02:12
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lardmannight chaps02:13
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pupnik_nite02:13
wazdcya02:13
pupnik_wtf is up with extras-devel?02:13
lcukooh that does brush on the firehose queue, nwkn could get "as someone approves it on going magazine format" with that sort of route02:13
Jaffalcuk: a bot here and in #maemo-devel which'd post to the account if a contributor did "@mwtn <section> <keywords>" which then suffixed it with the URL to the log from a few seconds prior02:13
Jaffalcuk: ...would be excellent :)02:13
lcukwell speak to carsten and marius02:14
JaffaIndeed02:14
* Jaffa hopes to have more volunteers on infrastructure as well as content side ;-)02:14
* Jaffa beds02:14
lcukwe have the silicon watching, i know its feasible, gnite02:14
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jebbapupnik: http://espejo.freemoe.org/espejo-maemo-extras-devel.install02:20
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paul42I'm running "paplay" (simple pulseaudio player) , but I can't hear any sound02:21
paul42Do you know why?02:21
woglindehoi jebba02:22
jebbapaul42: get alsamixer, run `alsamixer -c0`  and look for "HP DAC" and turn it up02:22
jebbahey woglinde02:22
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woglindehm guess I need alsamixer for espeak too02:22
jebbapaul42: one of these i think will do it:02:22
jebbaamixer -D hw:0 -- sset 'HP DAC' playback 100%02:22
jebbaamixer -D hw:0 -- sset 'HP DAC Playback Volume' playback 100%02:22
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woglindelet see02:22
Jef91anyone here use fMMS?02:23
* paul42 trying02:23
jebbapaul42: wait, i completely take that all back. That's an alsa issue, this is pulse.  I don't think that will work, nvm.02:23
woglindehm no wonder02:24
jebbabasically pulseaudio is used to set levels for each channel, but there isn't a pulseaudio mixer.02:24
woglindepcm is highest02:24
woglindejebba hm02:24
woglindenon in patools?02:24
jebbawoglinde: actually, that is what i run after i turn off pulse to use jack02:24
fralsJef91: yeah.. 0.3.0 not working? ;o02:25
jebbawoglinde: i've seen a pulseaudio mixer, but not in maemo. i may have just overlooked it.02:25
Jef91frals : it works but all the pictures I get are super tiny - is there a way to adjust/chance that?02:25
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jebbathere's no patool in maemo02:25
fralsJef91: blame T-Mobile for that and not following standards/guidelines :(02:26
paul42jebba: HP DAC & HP DAC 0 are already 100%02:26
woglindethanks jebba for the alsa-tip02:26
Jef91frals : so thats a no then I take it?02:26
woglindenow espeak is a lotter friendlyer02:26
fralsJef91: yeah, ive tried all the stuff that *should* solve it, and seems it works for some on some pictures, but.. no :(02:27
jebbawoglinde: you used that amixer command to change levels in espeak? Running pulse?02:27
woglindejebba pcm02:27
woglindeit actually was02:28
woglinde100%02:28
Jef91frals : kk, I was just wondering - I'm just happy to have mms thehehe02:28
woglindeso master level didnt do anything02:28
paul42jebba: and not mute02:28
jebbawoglinde: i dont see a patools package anywhere02:28
pupnik_pulseaudio-utils exists02:29
woglinde-1702:29
woglindedamn02:29
woglindeI am think I am russia or something02:29
woglinde+in02:29
pupnik_temp is -17??02:29
woglindeyes02:29
jebbapavucontrol02:29
* pupnik_ cries02:29
jebbapavucontrol - PulseAudio Volume Control02:30
jebbawhat's up pupnik?02:30
paul42I really don't understand, paplay doesn't work but other "graphical app" work02:30
pupnik_so expensive to heat house02:30
* Jef91 heads back to class02:30
Jef91Linear Algebra is so dry02:30
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pupnik_alsamixer can see all kinds of stuff02:31
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woglindehm I wonder what pulseaudio-module-nokia-voice is for02:31
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pupnik ty jebba02:33
paul42Actually, I'm trying to understand why I don't have sound with scummvm. If anyone know...02:33
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paul42I think it uses alsa, which uses PA02:33
paul42aplayer doesn't work either02:33
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paul42jebba: and this is an Alsa issue02:33
paul42jebba: aplayer foo.wav <- no sound02:34
paul42s/aplayer/aplay02:34
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cehtehmaybe unmute your device?02:36
cehtehturn volume up02:36
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jebbawoglinde: the nokia-voice one probably does their GSM (audio) codec02:36
jebbapaul42: you using headfones or anything. I can only suggest trying     alsamixer -c0   and upping them all....02:37
jebbai assume the regular mediaplayer is playing fine, btw.02:37
paul42it is02:37
paul42But I don't test with headphones02:37
jebbaNo libglademm to build pavucontrol02:37
javispedroi doubt it would work either way, the maemo pa is heavily modified02:38
woglindejebba hehe make libglademm package02:39
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pupnikwow something broke my xterm -02:40
timeless_mbpcute02:41
timeless_mbpmy bluetooth module came back02:41
timeless_mbpand told me its name02:41
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timeless_mbphttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=f90411e2b2db3270a63eb7ccf7753d33&p=463606#post46360602:42
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shrdlu-is there any way to set up a pop account using a SSL secure connection without using secure authentification on the N900?02:53
shrdlu-it seems to automatically select it if you use SSL02:53
ml-mobileit does02:54
ml-mobilebut it still works02:54
* ml-mobile uses it with gmail02:54
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shrdlu-doesn't work for me on my isp :/02:54
* timeless_mbp is confused02:55
timeless_mbpwhat the heck does that mean in pure technical terms?02:55
timeless_mbpwhat port do you speak and what protocol and what do you say?02:55
timeless_mbp109? 110? 995?02:55
ml-mobilepop3 over SSL02:55
timeless_mbpso 995?02:55
shrdlu-yeah02:56
timeless_mbpso standard pop over ssl, no fancy starttls games02:56
shrdlu-guess I'll have to02:56
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shrdlu-why would they set the server up like that anyway? Doesn't that mean the logon information isn't secure?  Seems to make securing the downloads rather pointless if you can just swipe the passwords02:57
timeless_mbp?02:58
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Robot101if you have SSL, everything is encrypted, including the authentication02:58
timeless_mbpSSL means the server says "hi, here's my public key, verify me"02:58
timeless_mbpyou say "oh hey, your certificate verifies as being signed by someone i trust"02:58
timeless_mbp"i'll talk to you, lemme generate a session key with you"02:58
timeless_mbpthey're  like "great, DVWER@#QRIQRORT#ERQ"02:58
timeless_mbpyou and the server speak ssl, and no one can eavesdrop without defeating SSL02:59
timeless_mbpwhich most people consider to be tolerably difficult for a 3 month window :)02:59
shrdlu-I dunno, all I know is that in Thunderbird, if I select 'Use secure authentification' the client comes back with 'server does not support secure authentification'03:00
shrdlu-but it lets me use SSL03:00
shrdlu-and on the N900, selecting SSL doesn't work03:00
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timeless_mbphttp://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=19597603:01
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timeless_mbphttp://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=1125060&sid=616bc7d8f351a74ab4bc2bb7d0773f6b#p112506003:01
digitalstimulushello, does anyone know how to tell what codename version I am running on n810?  I can get the numeric version, but I can't seem to find a list somewhere or the codename :)03:01
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ml-mobilerather, the UI shows secure auth as checked even though it isn't activated03:01
timeless_mbpsecure auth is really enciphering the password credentials03:01
shrdlu-hrm.03:03
ShadowJKdigitalstimulus, what numeric?03:03
ml-mobileshrdlu-:  uncheck it, activate SSL03:03
digitalstimulus5.2008.43-703:03
ml-mobileit'll work03:03
ShadowJKhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames03:03
ShadowJKthat's diablo03:03
shrdlu-I can't uncheck it03:03
shrdlu-that's the point03:03
ml-mobilebefore enabling SSL03:03
shrdlu-it isn't checked03:04
ml-mobileok03:04
timeless_mbpdigitalstimulus: ok, so you have a random number03:04
ml-mobileI think it's a bug in the GUI03:04
timeless_mbpwhich no one should be using03:04
timeless_mbpwhy?03:04
shrdlu-but it shows up as checked anyway.  but ml-mobile says it's a gui thing, i see03:04
ml-mobileyes03:04
digitalstimulusShadowJK, thanks, that's what I was looking for :)03:04
timeless_mbpoh03:04
timeless_mbpsorry, 200803:04
ml-mobileI hit that when setting up my gmail accounts03:04
digitalstimulustimeless, 5.2008.43-7 shows as 4.1.3 diablo on the wiki codenames03:05
timeless_mbpdigitalstimulus: sorry, i missed the '8' in 200803:05
timeless_mbpit's late here03:05
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, "no on should be using", because if it was 2009.43-7 it would be ancient, or because nobody should have obtained it? :-)03:05
shrdlu-well, SSL isn't working, in this case03:05
ShadowJKThose people part of nokia's tester program that received N900's (and I'm not talking about the Maemo summit and dev programs) never quoted version numbers :-(03:07
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shrdlu-oh. there we go03:07
shrdlu-nice, thanks for that ml03:07
timeless_mbpShadowJK: 'yes' :)03:08
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pupnikhmm, 221b video game uses a chatbot for characters03:08
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ShadowJKDo we need to add another column to that table to add "PR1.0" and "PR1.1" schemes..03:09
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* timeless_mbp curses svn03:11
* timeless_mbp contemplates using hg convert instead03:11
timeless_mbp(probably wiser)03:11
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pupniki should bring ps3 controllers to fosdem03:12
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kamuipupnik03:13
kamuiI need some help03:13
kamuiaccessibleName was not declared in this scope03:13
kamuiI've narrowed it down to QtGui03:14
kamuibut I have no idea why its saying that in the scratchbox03:14
kamuithe code builds fine on my native system03:14
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pupnikhey kamui what are you building?03:15
kamuilmms03:15
kamuior attempting to anyway03:15
pupniki failed building lmms03:15
kamuiroh noes!03:15
kamuiwhere did you get stuck?03:16
pupnikdon't remember03:16
kamuiI wanted to try hyrdogen, but I didn't think the UI would fit well wihtout major rework03:16
pupnikhttp://cplusplus.syntaxerrors.info/index.php?title=%E2%80%98bar%E2%80%99_was_not_declared_in_this_scope03:17
pupnik:)03:17
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pupnikpicodrive would get you a gaggle of groupies03:17
kamuiI thought that at first pupnik03:18
kamuibut its declared in QWidget03:18
kamuiso I purposely included that in the source file03:18
pupnikperhaps related to gcc version?03:18
kamuiand it still fails when linking03:18
kamuicould be03:18
kamuicompiling03:18
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mtnbkrguess this guy ain't buying an N900:   http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/01/25/apple.fans/index.html03:24
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shrdlu-he will be buying some elasticated jeans and a bulk pack of TV dinners though03:26
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pupnikphooood03:28
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shrdlu-"He said he spends about 4 to 6 hours per day reading online news about Apple." lol03:28
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SpeedEvil...03:28
mtnbkrthat guy is missing more than one screw...03:29
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* VDVsx facepalms03:29
mtnbkrfor instance:  "I bought the iPod when it was announced. I didn't know what it was going to do when I bought it," he said, adding that Apple knows before he does what he needs in technology.   DUMB  just dumb03:29
shrdlu-I thought the tablet sounded alright until I saw that it was going to run the iphone OS03:29
shrdlu-guess I had assumed it'd run straight OSX03:30
Wizzupgot the n900 today, and I'm literally blown away. It's linux... on a phone... :-)03:30
CutMeOwnThroatit produces wind?03:30
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SpeedEvilWizzup: Similarly still blown away after a couple of months.03:31
shrdlu-I'm also very happy03:31
crashanddieyooo bitches!03:31
SpeedEvilWizzup: last month I realised that - with my laptop hard disk a bit dodgy - the easiest way for me to back it up was to rsync to the phone.03:31
Wizzup:p03:31
WizzupOnly thing I didn't find in experimental reposses was git, but I may have to look harder03:32
* mtnbkr_N900 is happy too - and irc'ing from his n90003:32
pupnikman, try to find a SpaceSaver II kbd for under $200...03:32
digitalstimulusanyone has n900 and n810?03:32
pupnikmany people03:32
ph1lWizzup: at the downside... i'm not reachable on the phone anymore since i have to stage my n900 every 5min :-D03:33
digitalstimulusI have n810 and am looking forward to getting the n900, wonder how it compares in a daily use type of way, not a youtube "this button is now here" kind of way :)03:33
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mtnbkrph1l: could be an upside - for you though03:33
ph1lmtnbkr: actually it is indeed :-)03:34
pupnikgoddamn t-offline03:34
ph1lbtw: anyone know a app which filters incomming calls and present them with a mp3-bla bla message?03:35
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Wizzupph1l: I don't think I'll want to do too dangerous things on it just yet - may try to see if I can port gentoo later. but ATM I'm just enjoying the way it just `works' :)03:35
digitalstimulusph1l, google voice?03:35
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sr71digitalstimulus: I have both but honestly I've been using the N900 way more than the N810 due to it's size/phone/performance03:35
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digitalstimulussr71, I've had the n810 for about a year and a half, I love it but I'm having a battery issue that appears to be common.  Would you say the n900 is a full replacement?03:36
ph1li would like a blacklist of phone-numbers and if they call they get anoyed by "if you want to tallk about tax please press1, ...03:36
digitalstimulussr71, for what the n810 is designed for anyways, not just because n900 is a phone03:37
ScribbleJIt is currently possible to build my own kernel for my N900?03:37
ScribbleJhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797203:37
povbot`Bug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found03:37
Damion2fixed in M6 ;)03:37
ScribbleJI'm new... what's M6?  I'm just trying to make my own kernel for the first time. :)03:38
sr71digitalstimulus: imho it is03:38
jebbaScribbleJ:  i have some info about building kernels here http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Kernel03:38
ScribbleJdigitalstimulus, the N900 does not support USB OTG, except for that I don't think you'll miss anyhting.03:39
digitalstimulussr71, awesome, I look forward to the n900 even more03:39
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digitalstimulusOTG?03:39
shrdlu-does ovi maps do speed cameras?03:39
ScribbleJdigitalstimulus, the N810 can act as USB host, the N900 cannot.03:39
SpeedEvilScribbleJ: that's still somewhat in question - at least host mode - it doesn't support OTG - no.03:39
sr71I like the N900 keyboard a bit better but if you have larger hands it may take some getting used to since it's smaller03:39
Damion2maemo6/harmahatton03:39
ScribbleJSpeedEvil, there might be some way to do host mode?  Hey... don't I know you from #electronics?03:39
Damion2I've spelt that wrong03:39
SpeedEvilScribbleJ: All the technical reasons by nokia that I've chased down so far seem incorrect.03:39
SpeedEvilScribbleJ: probably.03:39
ScribbleJIt's been a long time since I've been int here.  You're not the guy with the awesome garden, are you?03:40
SpeedEvilScribbleJ: The USB PHY chip does not seem to be configurable in such a way to prevent USB host mode working.03:40
ScribbleJMaybe that was Professor or something.03:40
SpeedEvilScribbleJ: debatably awesome.03:40
ScribbleJHah03:40
shrdlu-SpeedEvil does indeed have a magical garden03:40
digitalstimulusI've not used the USB host mode03:40
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SpeedEvilI've been spending much of this year with my limited energy getting it sane - hence cutting my hacking time.03:41
ScribbleJI'm very interested in getting my N900 to do USB host... if there's a way to get it to work, that would be awesome.03:41
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ScribbleJI just don't know enough about it to even know where to start on that one.03:41
ScribbleJjebba, thanks for the link, I am perusing it.03:41
SpeedEvilyes, I know. I need to get it done - it's just I've more important stuff to do - tomorrow I'm fixing the kitchen worktops and trying to stop moisture getting in again. :/03:41
digitalstimuluswhat do you all use host mode for?03:42
digitalstimulusmainly03:42
SpeedEvildigitalstimulus: it does not currently work.03:42
ScribbleJdigitalstimulus, reading/writing USB memory sticks?03:42
digitalstimulusI understand the concept, I just don't see application for it for me03:42
SpeedEvildigitalstimulus: If it worked - I'd be using it for plugging in an external hard drive occasionally.03:42
ScribbleJOr in my case, USB seems like a fine way to integrate to an external device like a uC.  I guess BT is good for that too though.03:43
shrdlu-woo. ovi maps does indeed support speed cameras.03:43
SpeedEvildigitalstimulus: turn on hard drive, plug in n900 - pull off a movie in a couple of minutes, shut it down.03:43
digitalstimulusguess that would work, I guess I'm jus tpatient transferring via wireless03:43
ScribbleJjebba, that looks awesome, I was mainly lookign for a way to do NAT/iptables... you are my hero.03:43
SpeedEvilOr ripping DVDs, or connecting a scanner/printer/audio system/...03:44
jebbathere's a talk thread about NAT too. Search for wifi hotspot03:44
ScribbleJI saw that thread.03:44
ScribbleJIt was useless!03:44
ScribbleJI mean, it was a bunch of guys talking about how maybe htis or that would work... but it seemed to me just making my own kernel and trying it would be fine.03:44
SpeedEvilOr connecting up a DisplayLink adaptor03:44
digitalstimulusNAT would be awesome, similar to Sprint's MiFi03:44
SpeedEvilto plug in a monitor03:44
ScribbleJOnly... then I found you can't actually build a kernel, which is the saddest disappointment I've had on a machine I bought because it was open.03:44
javispedroer.. what?03:45
ScribbleJWhat to who? Me?03:45
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ScribbleJRead up the page, there's a bug right now that prevents me (or presumably anyone outside Nokia) from building a kernel properly.03:46
javispedrowhat?03:46
ScribbleJMissing fiasco-gen03:46
javispedroI've bought a few kernels already, and lots of modules03:46
javispedrowhat you'd need fiasco-gen for?03:46
ScribbleJIT's required to compile the latest kernel in the SDK repos.03:46
javispedro"compile"?03:46
ScribbleJYes, compile.03:46
javispedroyou mean "package"03:47
ScribbleJWhat do you mean by "bought?"03:47
ScribbleJWell, I dunno what fiasco-gen does, I just know it's a prereq, apt-get build-dep kernel03:47
javispedroso it's not stoping you from building a kernel, isn't it?03:47
ScribbleJWell, yes...03:47
javispedroit's stopping you from packaging it.03:47
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ScribbleJ?03:48
ScribbleJThe first step in building a kernel -- and I'm new here so feel free to tell me how wrong I am -- is presumably to do apt-get build-dep kernel so I have all the tools required to build said kernel.03:48
ScribbleJYet, this command fails since fiasco-gen is not available anywhere.03:48
ScribbleJPresumably, building the kernel would also fail due to it's absence.03:49
javispedrowell, so I tell you that fiasco-gen is not needed to build the kernel, but maybe to package it.03:49
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ScribbleJOK, that's good information.  Not being a debian wizard, how do I find/install the remaining dependencies?03:49
luke-jroh wow03:49
Wizzupdoes anyone else have the issue that dosbox won't type ":" or "/", when in dosbox console? It prints > and ignores the "blue arrow" key03:49
javispedroif you installed the full sdk dev, you probably have them already.03:49
luke-jrI want a handheld with QSD8672 <.<03:49
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ScribbleJjavispedro, the only thing I know I am missing is the binary parts; I added a line to my apt sources for it, but not sure what packages to get.03:50
luke-jrScribbleJ: you don't need FIASCO crap03:50
javispedroScribbleJ: "Nokia-binaries" and "nokia-apps" as clearly stated in the sdk guide.03:51
javispedrothough you don't need them to build the kernel iirc.03:51
luke-jrScribbleJ: but you do need blob userland to make it work03:51
ScribbleJjavis, that's awesome... can you link me to where it's clearly stated?  I know I'm retarded, I don't feel like I'm finding all the docs yet.03:51
javispedroWizzup: search for "rover.sys" in talk.maemo.org03:51
ScribbleJI must be looking in the wrong docs so far, I think.03:51
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luke-jrScribbleJ: ./flasher -k bzImage -l -b03:52
luke-jrScribbleJ: that will boot your bzImage over USB without modifying flash03:52
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luke-jrto actually write it to flash, replace -l with -f03:52
ScribbleJThat's very good and interesting to know!03:53
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javispedroScribbleJ: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation03:53
ScribbleJThanks, javis.  I don't mean to be a dick, I'm just genuinely a bit lost. :)03:54
Wizzupjavispedro: Thanks.03:54
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javispedroI've never tried building the kernel package (just from patched sources without debhelper stuff), but I guess plain dpkg-buildpackage will fail due to fiasco-gen. Still, when it fails (my guess is late in the process) you should have the image floating around.03:58
ScribbleJThat makes sense... I wasn't using buildpackage though.03:58
ScribbleJThis is the first thing I'm ever building for N900/maemo except the shortest possible C "Hello World" I threw together to see if I had it all right.03:59
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javispedrobtw, and, fwiw, flasher supports "--flash-only kernel" if you ever need to revert to the default fw.04:02
luke-jrI find I need to --flash-only initfs most often :P04:05
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javispedronot on n900 (it's gone)04:06
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luke-jrjavispedro: so I lose everything when I make a typo in the boot scripts?04:07
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javispedroprobably, but there's bootmenu04:07
javispedroi don't play with that stuff though04:08
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luke-jrbootmenu is initfs04:09
javispedro... not on n900. :)04:10
luke-jrmy point stands.04:10
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luke-jrif I make a typo in the boot scripts (bootmenu), the only recovery is wiping everything?04:10
javispedroit does.04:10
javispedroyes.04:10
luke-jrugly :x04:10
javispedrowell, you might be able to change init=04:10
luke-jrI guess it's a little better since it has the huge internal storage tho04:10
javispedroagain, I don't play with that.04:11
luke-jrif I had one, I'd probably turn the MTD into an initfs anyway04:11
luke-jrXD04:11
luke-jrjavispedro: so what are your thoughts on the LG Apollo?04:11
luke-jr1.3 GHz QSD and 1 GB RAM04:11
javispedroah, wow.04:12
javispedroScreen Resolution: WXGA 1280 x 720 px  heh04:12
cpscottiHey.. any user of the "desktop command execution widget" there? Already using version 0.6? I'm looking for some feedback on whether it is a good idea to go on with this version to extras-testing =]04:12
javispedro10 hours of video playback? I have to wonder how they'd pull that off.04:12
luke-jrjavispedro: supposedly Qualcomm isn't using ARM's stuff as-is04:13
luke-jrthey actually spent $$$ on engineers to optimize it04:13
SpeedEvilcpscotti: how does it work - I diddn't see docs04:13
luke-jrjavispedro: they also have a dual-core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon coming out too, but I don't know anything using it04:14
cpscottiSpeedEvil: should be very self explanatory (sory). You add one to your desktop and in the widgets settings you can set up any shell/bash cmd04:14
cpscottiand then the output will be shown there04:14
cpscotti(it comes with some simple examples and all)04:14
javispedroluke-jr: so far I classify it in the "hard-to-believe" category, which means we'll see when it comes out (supposedly september seems)04:15
cpscottihttp://static.pixelpipe.com/45c7df9b-db4a-4ffc-a97d-322b6914f26d_m.jpg04:15
luke-jrjavispedro: yeah, knowing that's coming, I can't see myself getting anything else until then XD04:15
SpeedEvilcpscotti: I find it most annoying there isn't a nice standard way to - say - long press on applications inthe app manager - and hit a standard help page location.04:16
luke-jrunfortunately it ships with Win7 tho04:16
SpeedEvilcpscotti: I haven't actually looked for docs - it was one of the apps I've installed without doing research04:16
cpscottiSpeedEvil: ohh.. yehp..04:16
SpeedEvilHmm - neat. I need to actually read the docs.04:16
cpscottiwell.. since the first time that I figured out the "long press" (or press outside anything, and then on the gear), I try it with everything.. lol04:17
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DocScrutinizercpscotti: are you the decel of that clicmd widget?04:23
cpscottinope..04:23
cpscotticlicmd?04:23
DocScrutinizerwel I dunno the exact name04:24
DocScrutinizerthe small widget you can display the result of shell commands on homescreen04:25
cpscottiyeep04:26
cpscottidesktop-cmd-exec04:26
DocScrutinizerwell probably it's called "desktop command execution widget"04:26
cpscottithat's me04:26
cpscottiand yes .. that's the XB-DisplayName04:27
DocScrutinizerit's nice, but has a rather silly and annoying shortcome: you can't have more than one of them04:27
cpscotti=]04:27
cpscottijust update04:27
cpscottiyour wish has become true04:28
DocScrutinizerok :->04:28
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cpscotti(ok.. bad english there)04:30
timeless_mbpcpscotti: XB-Display-Name: no?04:31
cpscottiyeh yeh..04:31
cpscottihaha04:31
kamuiepic fail tonight pupnik04:31
kamuitried to build openlierox04:31
kamuican't build the libboost dep04:31
kamui:(04:31
* bfree shakes his fist at the left handed "long press" ;-) http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/right_handed_popup_menus04:31
kamuisegfaults04:31
cpscottibfree: Agree totally with it! it just got another thumb up04:34
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cpscotti(well.. post any comments regarding my widget (desktop-cmd-exec) on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=496691 .. I pretend to send it up to testing soon)04:40
cpscottigood night to everybody!04:40
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pupnikAri at summit:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/32856926@N06/4027159841/sizes/l/in/set-72157622622073500/   Finland:  http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=1045    :)04:46
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pupnikkamui: libboost?  wait a sec04:52
kamuiI suck pupnik04:53
kamuiits all in devel-extras04:53
kamuiand extras-devel04:53
kamuiand extras-testing04:53
kamuididn't think about adding the repos to the scratchbox :)04:53
pupnikoh heh04:53
kamuihoewver, openliero can't be ported easily04:53
pupnika lot of stuff turns out to be problematic!04:53
kamuilooks like there is code thats not arm compatible yet04:53
pupnikyuop04:53
kamuiIm going to actually look into  it more this weekend04:53
kamuibut I think again, its probably more than I want to take on right now04:54
kamuiliero is by far one of my favorite games, so its sad04:54
* pupnik installs liero04:54
pupnikopenlierox?04:55
kamuiyea04:55
kamuiI always played liero04:55
kamuithen some years ago openlieroX came out04:55
kamuiadded multiplayer via internet, random # of players, exensible weapon system, etc04:56
kamuithooper suite!04:56
pupnikslow download04:57
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pupnikhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/jaaksi/337387474/sizes/o/   another nice n900 photo05:07
pupniki think05:07
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kamuipupnik05:15
kamuiif I port something successfully05:15
kamuican I just use fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -d on it?05:16
YeTr2maemo is designed to only be used on nokia things, yes?05:16
kamuito build a quick deb05:16
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tank-manYeTr2, check out "mer"05:16
tank-manhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer05:17
kamuiYeTr2, naah, aigo N500 shoudl be out05:17
kamuinot a nokia device05:17
kamuirunning MAemo 505:18
pupnik-b and -d to ignore deps05:18
kamui4" screen, no keyboard05:18
pupnikb to build05:18
kamuioh suite05:18
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kamuiand pupnik, say I want to change the default path to /opt05:18
kamuican I .configure it first05:18
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kamuior is there a flag for dpkg05:18
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* pupnik crawls into a corner, twitching and glancing at the ceiling05:18
kamuidont' be a hater pupnik :)  I've never deployed a package for others05:20
kamuiI ususally only build for myself05:20
pupniki can't help with optification05:20
pupniki do it by hand, with ar05:20
kamuiI C05:20
kamuiI just assumed I could change the prefix directory05:21
kamuithen in my post install script link the bins to /usr/bin05:21
_andyanyone know how to get a pipe character in xterm for maemo?05:21
kamui_andy,  use sym key05:21
_andykamui, doesn't do anything...05:22
timeless_mbp_andy: you have to press blue first05:22
pupnik_andy: you can add special chars to the toolbar using gconf05:22
YeTr2tank-man: kamui: yeah, I was just checking to see if there was a possibility it would run on this other non-nokia web tablet I have. I doubt it will.05:23
kamuiwell, its a very good assumption that it wont "just work"05:23
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kamuiif you managed to boot it, you'd need to at the very least recompile the kernel to support your hardware05:24
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_andytimeless_mbp, still does nothing..05:24
timeless_mbpwhat did you 'do'?05:24
_andyi press the blue ('function') key and then i press the Sym key05:25
_andythen nothing happens.05:25
_andyand when i push random characters i get nothin'.05:26
SpeedEvilpress blue function - hold, press sym - release sym - release blue05:26
timeless_mbpbrother05:26
SpeedEvilI can never get that to work when I jkust mash the two keys - which is annoying and broken05:26
_andyhmm.. SpeedEvil nothin' when I try that05:27
timeless_mbp_andy: go to settings>text input05:27
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timeless_mbpenable the onscreen keyboard05:27
timeless_mbpuse that.05:28
timeless_mbpthere's a pipe in there05:28
_andydoes that work in xterm?05:28
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timeless_mbpyes05:28
* timeless_mbp wonders why sym isn't working in xterm05:28
SpeedEvilIt does05:29
timeless_mbpnot for me atm05:29
SpeedEvilwfm05:29
timeless_mbpwhich is odd, because it worked for me a few days ago05:29
_andyhmm.. i can't get the onscreen kb to work when I enable that option.will try a reboot05:29
SpeedEvilthough witht he above caveats on button order05:29
SpeedEvilukkbd05:29
timeless_mbpyou have to close the keyboard tray05:30
_andyAH..05:30
_andyty05:30
_andyanyone got gpsd working on the N900?05:30
kamuiworks on mine05:30
_andywhat device name do you use?05:30
kamuiwhat version do you have timeless05:30
timeless_mbpkamui: sorry.05:30
kamuieuro? US?05:30
timeless_mbpi'm not running 51-105:31
kamuioh, thats why?05:31
* timeless_mbp shrugs05:31
timeless_mbpi'm 99% certain this build has worked for me05:31
timeless_mbpbut my system is flaky atm05:31
timeless_mbpa few hours ago the phone refused to function :)05:31
timeless_mbpand then bluetooth reset05:31
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_andyaah i feel retarded.. the onscreen kb still doesn't open in xterm.05:32
* timeless_mbp ponders05:33
kamuimake sure its enabled in settings andy05:33
timeless_mbpdid you tap the screen?05:33
kamuiby default isn't it off timeless?05:33
_andykamui, it is :). timeless_mbp yes05:33
_andyi fail so hard at N900 tonight.05:34
* timeless_mbp cries05:38
timeless_mbpwell, on screen keyboard works for me05:41
wiretappedmy n900 periodically claims to have no cellular data when it actually does05:41
pupniki've seen that since pr1.1 wiretapped05:41
wiretappedlike right now, i'm typing in a remote shell05:41
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wiretappedand it just said it. and yeah, i'm on pr1.105:41
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ScribbleJI can't ruin my N900 by flashing kernels and things at it, right, I can always just lfash on the default stuff again?05:52
luke-jryou can by flashing the bootloader05:52
luke-jrwhy not just USB-boot without modifying the flash, though?05:52
kamuior by flashing your erection at it05:52
kamuithat tends to break electronics05:53
ScribbleJYes, that probably would ruin it.05:53
_andycan I put grub on my N900 and dual boot windows?05:54
_andyjk05:54
ScribbleJOooh, why didn't I think of that?05:54
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ScribbleJYou know how computers are all 1s and 0s inside, right?  Well, I'm going to make my computer go twice as fast by replacing all the 1s with .5s.05:55
_andyi hear floating point operations are much simpler.05:55
ScribbleJI might need some little tweezers though.05:55
shamusyou know i wonder is it posable to run the origional myst on a n800 or n90005:55
ScribbleJWell, wasn't the original myst a dos game?05:56
ScribbleJIt'd probably run under dosbox.05:56
shamusthaght it was win 3.105:56
ScribbleJI can't remember. :/05:56
Robot101ScribbleJ: you laugh, but actually, reducing voltage and shrinking the silicon is a requirement for clocking CPUs faster, because it comes down to how long it takes for electrons to flow on or off the silicon pads...05:56
Robot101ScribbleJ: so yes, we did turn the 1s into 0.5s to make CPUs faster :)05:56
ScribbleJRobot101, well, yes, but that is intentionally confusing voltage with logic... .... I was just trying to be funny.05:57
_andymy internet tablet keeps making a ringing noise.. wtf?05:57
Robot101ScribbleJ: :)05:57
Robot101ScribbleJ: well the funny thing for me is that it's not so far from the truth, in some ways05:57
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ScribbleJI bet they did it with tweezers and a magnifying glass, too.05:58
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YeTr2kamui: so, how would I go about trying to make maemo work?06:10
pupnikturn device on06:12
b-man17lol06:12
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YeTr2ok... lets fastforward, after I configure Haret to boot maemo, what should I be looking for if it does/doesn't work..06:13
pupnikmaybe you want to look into 'mer', the free open-source version06:15
pupnikhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer06:15
ScribbleJluke-jr, I'm not sure why I can't usb boot.  I tried that way to boot jebba's presumably working kernel...06:17
ScribbleJAnd my own.06:17
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pupnikhttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/mg/2.6.6-1/   test MasterGear emu!  Free ROMs here: http://www.pdroms.de/files/mastersystem/  http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/roms.html06:18
YeTr2well, that sure as hell failed.06:21
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YeTr2stops at 'Jumping to Kernel..."06:23
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YeTr2so, now I need to figure out how to get Mer to run on an intel xscale pxa255 ?06:25
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MistaEDfunny how there's no megadrive emulator yet06:28
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jebbaScribbleJ: my kernel definitely works with PR1. Not sure about PR1.1.06:33
ScribbleJjebba... I can't follow your directions, I just found.06:35
jebbaah06:35
ScribbleJI get an error message trying to flash the kernel from the device about how it pre-depends on fiasco-flasher which is not installed ... and I can't seem to find anywhere.06:36
jebbageez opensuse is over a gig just for text install....06:36
ScribbleJAny idea what I'm missing?06:36
jebbayou need to install kernel-flasher06:36
ScribbleJI also noticed you have .debs for vlc, which I'm dying to see running on my N900... any caveats to installing them?06:37
jebbawell, definitely needs poking at and the interface isnt great, but it works.06:37
jebbathis version isn't optimized for n900 at all. But there is a git tree with another one, so i may build that.06:37
jebbaah, and it's *NOT* optified due to bug in maemo-optify-deb and I didn't optify manually.06:38
odin_ScribbleJ, there is bug for fiasco-flasher https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797206:38
povbot`Bug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found06:38
ScribbleJI actually have kernel-flasher installed, still no fiasco-flasher.06:39
ScribbleJodin, I'm aware of that bug -- wasn't aware they were the same thing.  Thanks.06:39
jebbayou're runnign which PR, and which kernel you trying to install?06:39
jebbaScribbleJ: you can't apt-get install fiasco-flasher?06:40
ScribbleJI'm totally new - so I don't know how to answer the first question.  For the second, I have been trying  kernel_2.6.28-20094102.6+0m14_armel.deb06:40
ScribbleJNope, I cannot;06:40
ml-mobilehmm06:40
jebbaScribbleJ: have you run update since oyou got your fone? I have fiasco-flasher installed on mine from somewhere, but it's not free software.06:41
ScribbleJE: Couldn't find package fiasco-flasher ... I have run update.06:41
ml-mobilejebba: would it be possible to take the stock kernel from kernel.org and build one for the N900?06:41
ml-mobile(using the appropriate .config and whatnot)06:41
jebbaml-mobile: no06:41
jebbamissing drivers06:41
ml-mobileclosed modules?06:42
jebbaso far i've only heard of people building working kernels using the 2.6.28 source from nokia.06:42
jebbano closed modules.06:42
ml-mobilehm06:42
odin_ml-mobile, nope, more like http://www.linux-arm.org/LinuxKernel/WebHome06:43
ScribbleJCan I just add your repo to my apt sources, jebba, that works fine in maemo?06:44
jebbaya, but even more than just linux-omap is needed.06:44
ScribbleJI really wish I knew where the fiasco-flasher is, but... it is MIA!06:44
jebbaScribbleJ: ya, that's what i do. You may want to turn it off before you do any apt-get upgrades though.06:44
microlithgranted the last time I was working with the kernel on ARM, it was stock compiles for PXA270 on Intel's Mainstone II platform so...06:44
jebbaScribbleJ: you may have to enable the nokia proprietary repos, though i think those are on by default in the ofne06:44
odin_yes nokia have an open patch to the kernel, yes there maybe some blobs but you can load your own kernel with the same features/kernel API as the official build06:44
ScribbleJI think I have enabled those, jebba, but I'm still pretty uncertain of everything. :)06:45
jebbathe blobs would be for wifi etc06:45
jebbaScribbleJ: dunno, sorry. You could try 0xFFFF06:45
jebbai may bail on using the nokia flasher and just convert everything over to 0xFFFF here next round06:46
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ScribbleJWell, if I can't get my own kernel working -- for the record, my kernel works as well for me right now as yours -- then I'll just try whatever you do next, I suppose.06:47
jebbawhich kernel of mine did you use?06:48
ScribbleJWhy would you run asterisk on maemo?06:48
ScribbleJ kernel_2.6.28-20094102.6+0m14_armel.deb06:49
shamuswhy not?06:51
luke-jrshamus: qemu + WINE06:52
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ScribbleJSheesh, it is just not my night.06:57
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ScribbleJHow did I get into this situation?  Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/f/ffmpeg/libavdevice52_0.5+svn20090706-5_armel.deb  Size mismatch06:57
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jebbaScribbleJ: try http://espejo.freemoe.org/espejo-maemo-extras-devel.install07:01
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ScribbleJjebba, I get a size mismatch on the same packages from there.07:08
ScribbleJMaybe they are in the middle of an update or something?07:08
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jebbaah yes, could be doing an update, but then i would have had to have snagged it at the same time.07:11
jebbai guess one option is i could run my own update on the repo and serve that up instead of their data.07:12
cedahmm, my mmc card is mounted read-only07:12
cedaphoto-app fails to sve images07:12
cedaand media framework fails to index07:13
GeneralAntillesceda, FAT's corrupt.07:13
cedaGeneralAntilles: ouch, ok. Is there a bug with workaround or similar?07:14
GeneralAntillesceda, fsck it?07:14
jebbaceda try a couple reboots too, i think it fscks it when it boots up. Or is this a microsd card?07:15
cedamicrosd07:15
cedait reboots at least twice a day07:15
jebbaah, ya, then you can unmount it and fsck it.07:15
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cedayes, of course *homer-doh*07:18
pupnikMistaED: there is one since 200707:18
pupnikdoesn't run many titles07:18
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MistaEDpupnik: oh didn't know07:19
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MistaEDi was just looking, DrMD could be used with the drnoksnes maemo framework07:19
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cedaGeneralAntilles: anyway to have trackerd rescan? such as a SIG?07:30
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Vrathahi07:37
Vrathamust say that the n900 maemo installation has gotten a little better.  still waiting for full contact sync and a better calendar before i move back off the nexus one07:38
Vrathabut do have to say it's improved nicely07:38
* luke-jr peers07:40
GeneralAntillesceda, yes, don't remember the recipe.07:40
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shamusis it me or is the ovi soefwhere on windows xp crap07:50
shamuslast time i tryed it my memory usage was frickign insin07:51
pupnikplonk07:52
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shamuspc suite was far more stable and less hungry07:53
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kuriiriso how awful is the ovi then?? :D07:53
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kuriirijust makes me wonder07:54
shamusmaby thy have had an update07:54
shamusbut i uninstalled with in 15 min of trying it07:54
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pwnguinoh interesting07:55
pwnguinif you turn on the camera on, tv out displays the captured image instead of the desktop07:55
Milo-obviously?07:56
shamusthen again i dont have a n900 and the old phone i do have works great with the old pc suite why bother with ovi07:56
pwnguinnot so obvious if you want to take a picture of yourself in good focus ;)07:56
pwnguinor demo the camera UI to a lot of people via projector07:57
pwnguinbut it is pretty fun to point at itself07:58
shamusah the classic infinity tunnle07:58
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Stskeepsmorn08:13
luke-jrmorning08:14
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* RST38h moos evilly08:16
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* Stskeeps glances at the -20 C on the hotel weather applet08:17
luke-jrStskeeps: btw, on the topic of N8x0 support, you are aware of my gitorious push of that kernel work I ended up stopping on?08:18
ds3luke-jr: what were you working on?08:18
luke-jrds3: porting Linux to N8x008:18
timeless_mbpperson w/ n900 handy: ping08:19
luke-jrStskeeps: if not, it's at http://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/linux-omap/n8x008:19
ds3huh?08:19
ds3don't Linux already run on N8x0?08:19
timeless_mbpds3: ignore luke-jr08:19
timeless_mbphe's a zealot08:19
luke-jrds3: only a very much diverged branch/fork of Linux 2.6.21, which is now unsupported08:19
ds3oh08:20
ds3you are one of the people trying to bring the L-O kernel up to snuff?08:20
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ds3(for the N8x0 devices)08:20
luke-jrds3: no. I was, until I realized it would be cheaper to buy a N900. the link above is the last effort I made on it.08:20
Stskeepsluke-jr: yes i was aware of it - the remaining issues was that you can't implement a full subsystem?08:21
Stskeeps(re)08:21
timeless_mbpds3: do you have an n900 handy?08:21
luke-jrin case someone else wanted to pick it up08:21
ds3timeless_mbp: nope08:21
luke-jrStskeeps: there was quite a bit remaining; the biggest one was rewriting the C-Bus to fit in mainline08:21
timeless_mbpluke-jr: hey, does that mean you have one? :)08:21
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: nope, holding out for LG Apollo now08:21
ds3I had some L-O kernel running on an N800 before08:22
* timeless_mbp grumbles08:22
* timeless_mbp pokes Trizt 08:22
luke-jrStskeeps: http://elinux.org/N800#Status is the status chart :)08:22
Stskeepsluke-jr: :nod:08:22
Triztmorning timeless_mbp08:22
timeless_mbpmorning08:22
timeless_mbpgot time for a quick item?08:22
rosseauxtimeless_mbp: i've a n900 smartphone here.08:23
timeless_mbpopen media player08:23
timeless_mbptap music08:23
Triztyeah, don't have to leave until 20 mins later08:23
timeless_mbptap an album08:23
Stskeepswrite 'r i c k r o l l'08:23
Stskeepsand it will put on rick astley ;)08:23
timeless_mbplong time on the first track in the list08:23
timeless_mbpis there a 'delete' item?08:23
timeless_mbpand does it delete the file from your n900?08:23
luke-jrStskeeps: board-specific code is needed to get webcam, keyboard, ambient light sensor working at least08:23
timeless_mbp(warning: it probably does, so actually testing this is dataloss...)08:23
Stskeepsluke-jr: if we were not to do it mainline but a bunch of patches stalking mainline, would that reduce complexity?08:24
ds3luke-jr: hmmm wonder what broke.. I had more then that running on an N800 before08:24
Trizttimeless_mbp; yes, there is08:24
luke-jrStskeeps: initial complexity, possibly; long-term, it would increase it08:24
timeless_mbpTrizt: wanna thwack the reporter of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8330 ?08:25
povbot`Bug 8330: Delete track from Media Player08:25
rosseauxtimeless_Mbp; yes, there is a delete item at my n900 with PR1.108:25
luke-jrds3: 2.6.30-rc had most of N8x0 supported in Linux-OMAP; that was all stripped out when 2.6.30 was released08:25
timeless_mbpthanks08:25
luke-jrds3: but that never saw a working WiFi driver08:25
* timeless_mbp offers someone a large trout for the occasion08:25
ds3Ohhh08:25
luke-jrnow Wifi is like the *only* thing working with mainline08:25
ds3I was using 2.6.24 or something around that era08:25
timeless_mbpluke-jr: why was it stripped? because the hardware vendor was EOL?08:26
timeless_mbps/vendor was/was vendor/08:26
infobottimeless_mbp meant: luke-jr: why was it stripped? because the hardware was vendor EOL?08:26
* Stskeeps heads to breakfast and kamppi08:26
ds3probally no one to clean it up for the K-O commit08:26
Trizttimeless_mbp; you want me to delete a track?08:27
timeless_mbpTrizt: well, make a backup08:27
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: the code was not mainlined; 2.6.30 was more or less a reset08:27
timeless_mbpbut do confirm before you thwack him/her08:27
Trizttimeless_mbp; delete works for me08:27
timeless_mbpStskeeps: what will you do in kamppi?08:27
* timeless_mbp is awake and could drop by08:27
Trizttimeless_mbp; nah, no point, it's time to change tracks08:28
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: plus what ds3 said :)08:28
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slonopotamusmorning08:28
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slonopotamusds3, K-O commit - ?08:28
luke-jrIIRC, some of the code no longer works with current kernel structures08:28
luke-jrslonopotamus: Kernel.org commit, I think08:28
ds3Kernel.org commit08:28
ds3aka Linus's tree08:28
slonopotamusokay08:28
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Triztgrr... forgot to update my password... time to find right email when back home after work08:30
luke-jrStskeeps: if it were merely keeping C-Bus independent, it would reduce complexity quite a bit in the short-run, but the LCD platform stuff uses Tahvo, so it wouldn't be mainlinable until C-Bus is :/08:30
Trizttimeless_mbp; you close the bug 8330 ?08:31
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8330 Delete track from Media Player08:31
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timeless_mbpTrizt: i'd rather not be the only user of bugs.maemo.org08:32
timeless_mbpso it'd be better if you or rosseaux commented08:32
timeless_mbpyou only need to stick a comment in, the resolution will happen later08:32
ds3luke-jr: Who would have to sign off on tthe C-bus commit? It looks like it'd be out of tony's hands08:33
Triztokey, then I'll look for my new password08:33
luke-jrds3: no idea? the code needs to be written before that matters08:34
Triztdamn, I can't login, guess I have to register again08:35
ScribbleJSheesh08:36
ScribbleJJust the package list from extras-devel take 15MB on /08:36
ScribbleJThat's harsh.08:36
crashanddieWe just need to make / 4 gig and be done with it08:37
crashanddieI'm tired of the optification discussions08:37
slonopotamuscrashanddie, :)08:37
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, $$$$08:37
pwnguini look forward to seeing your unionfs patches08:37
ScribbleJYeah, I don't care how fast the 256mb storage is... I'd rather have slower disks and more space.08:38
GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, no you wouldn't.08:38
crashanddiefuck the whole "but we're going to kill the 32gig flash, it can't handle it", at the current rate, we're using it all the time anyway08:38
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, the problem is it's freaking slow and high latency.08:38
ds3it sucks that code got regressed08:38
* timeless_mbp repokes Stskeeps about kamppi08:38
pupnikGeneralAntilles: ++08:38
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: ok, so how many libs are on /home/opt now?08:39
pupnikendless, useless whine08:39
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: how many shitloads of apps are using /home/opt continuously?08:39
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, not the core stuff.08:39
luke-jrds3: in the case of CBus, it was never implemented properly in the first place AFAIK08:39
Trizttimeless_mbp; so, commented08:40
ds3luke-jr: didn't it come directly from Nokia?08:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: well, just chuck everything in /boot, all the rest in /usr08:40
timeless_mbpTrizt: thanks08:40
luke-jrds3: I imagine so.08:40
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: it's a stupid design, I can't believe they went to market with only 256M for /08:40
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I agree, but, well . . . here we are.08:41
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slonopotamusGeneralAntilles, did you measure sd vs onboard flash speed?08:42
crashanddiezhy the fuck did ,y keyboqrd just szitch to french§08:42
crashanddiebetter (test)! aaaQQ08:42
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slonopotamusGeneralAntilles, and did you try running maemo from sd and seeing that it is unusably slow?08:43
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slonopotamusGeneralAntilles, or maybe you have a link to someone who did that?08:44
ScribbleJslonopotamus, that measurement was done.  The 256 flash is in fact much faster.08:44
ScribbleJI just saw the comparison in the wiki about two minutes ago.08:44
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: other option: make 4GB (or whatever size) for / in SD, then only move/symlink the core stuff that really slows down the whole device to the 256 flash08:44
slonopotamusScribbleJ, ssd disks are much faster than hdds. it doesn't mean that hdds are unusable.08:44
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ScribbleJI'm just saying.  You want the numbers, they are out there.08:45
ScribbleJIIRC it's something like 100MB/sec on the one side and 20MB/sec on the other.08:45
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: this way, all applications that have been optified keep working, applications that have no clue what's happening keep working, albeit a tiny bit slower, but we keep relatively acceptable speed for the core stuff08:45
slonopotamus...08:45
crashanddiehow many binaries are 20MB?08:46
slonopotamusScribbleJ, that doesn't matter when you have 256mb total.08:46
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: KOffice? :)08:46
crashanddiethat just means you can load the whole rootfs in 2.5s... there's no way the CPU can cope with that anyway08:46
slonopotamusso you can read full rootfs in 2 seconds. wonderful. why?08:46
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: otoh, it means that it'd take 200s to load the /home fs :)08:47
timeless_mbpif the thing you need is swapped out and lives in /home, the penalty is much worse08:47
ScribbleJHey don't ask me; I'm on the side of it's silly to have a 256mb / partition.  I mean, I filled it up with nothing non-optified installed... it's easy to do when just putting in the apt.sources line for extras-devel costs you 15mb of space, and god forbid you have a mirror for it listed too, then you just lost 30mb for -- nothing.08:47
crashanddietimeless_mbp: again, 32G in 200s? Seems acceptable to me.08:48
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: no, 2g in 200s08:48
ScribbleJNot even anything installed at all and 30mb gone.08:48
crashanddietimeless_mbp: 4G actually08:48
timeless_mbp2gb / 20mb/s08:48
timeless_mbpoh whatever08:48
crashanddielol08:48
timeless_mbp100s08:48
timeless_mbpit's still a long time08:49
ScribbleJIf it were up to me, I'd just take the 256mb as fast swap...08:49
crashanddieI daresay there are only very few scenarios where loading 2GB of data in 1m40 isn't fast enough -- movies? Boot time?08:49
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: so08:49
timeless_mbpare you volunteering to write the code to make it happen?08:49
crashanddiethere is no code required08:50
timeless_mbpbecause the rootfs isn't on a thing which swap supports out of the box08:50
crashanddiejust partitioning08:50
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: no.08:50
crashanddielolwut?08:50
ScribbleJtimeless, is it possible to make it happen?  If I can I certainly will.08:50
luke-jrScribbleJ: are you crazy? <.<08:50
ScribbleJluke-jr, yes, probably.08:50
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: there were estimates of a certain number of man months (plus testing etc) to get it working08:50
luke-jrScribbleJ: swap on NAND = bad NAND08:50
ScribbleJluke-jr, it would be helpful if you told me how I'm nuts though.08:50
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ScribbleJluke-jr, good point.08:51
timeless_mbpluke-jr: actually, people think it might be almost ok08:51
timeless_mbpalthough there's definitely a risk08:51
luke-jrtbh, I wouldn't be comfortable swapping to anything internal, ever <.<08:51
luke-jrI'll risk a disposable MicroSD for that08:51
ScribbleJYeah, kind of difficult to replace if you /do/ wear it out.08:51
timeless_mbp'kind of'?08:51
timeless_mbphow about impossible :)08:52
luke-jrXD08:52
ScribbleJBut look, that's beside the point, I guess.08:52
timeless_mbpanyway, people are investigating it08:52
timeless_mbpbut it is non-trivial08:52
* luke-jr swaps to external MicroSD with the assumption it will destroy it someday08:52
ScribbleJI'm up to page 10 of this thread on meamo.org about the root parition and I'm still not seeing anything that people make sound workable.08:52
ScribbleJThis whole optifying thing is a joke, you have to know it.08:52
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: a joke isn't the right word08:53
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timeless_mbpembarassment is probably better08:53
crashanddieembarassment is usually what people feel after a good sharp joke though08:53
timeless_mbpand after many bad ones...08:53
timeless_mbpand things which just aren't funny08:54
timeless_mbpthis falls squarely in the 'not funny' category08:54
slonopotamushehe :) no, it is funny08:55
ScribbleJI wish I knew where to look for the actual decision-making through-process that went into deciding on /opt as opposed to any of the laternative solutions.08:55
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ScribbleJIf I could just understand /why/ someone though the optifying was the best solution I might feel better.08:55
slonopotamusso crappy disk layout and ppl are accepting it, sitting around and repackaging, and optifying everything.08:56
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: the /opt solution was chosen by the maemo community08:56
ScribbleJHow?08:56
ScribbleJThat's what I want to know.08:56
timeless_mbpit's a matter of public record08:56
crashanddieScribbleJ: http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem08:56
GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, the mailing lists are where you want to look.08:56
GeneralAntillesTalk is useless.08:56
GeneralAntilleshttp://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021289.html08:56
ScribbleJcrashanddie, that doesn't explain how a solution was selected.  A lot of the others sound better to me.08:57
ScribbleJThanks, GeneralAntilles  - reading now.08:57
crashanddieScribbleJ: GA gave the answer, mailing lists08:57
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: roughly, it was not something nokia picked on its own08:58
slonopotamusno. you _already_ had 256mb rootfs when that discussion raised.08:58
timeless_mbpwhat we didn't do was think about "oh hey, where will our customers stick a 2gb application"08:58
slonopotamusyou already had fixed partition sizes.08:58
timeless_mbppartition sizes? bah08:58
timeless_mbpthe nand size is hardly a partition size08:58
timeless_mbpit's a piece of hardware08:58
timeless_mbpit's not like we can dynamically resize it!08:58
crashanddieindeed, I'm guessing you guys just took whatever fitted the budget08:59
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, sd partition sizes. 2gb is one more crap.08:59
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: actually, if you looked, i think you'd find it was for its time one of the larger nands08:59
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: a lot of people installed Diablo on their internal SD, I don't understand why people are so uptight about putting it on the 32g one now09:00
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: a lot of people also put it on SD cards and whatnot09:00
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: people can do whatever they like09:00
tekojocrashanddie expectations are the thing09:00
timeless_mbpnokia is uptight about performance09:00
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timeless_mbpany minor performance degradation results in customers whining09:00
crashanddieI have a uSD that answers faster than the rootfs though09:00
crashanddiegranted, it's only 144k in size, but still09:01
timeless_mbpyou have a 144k uSD ?!09:01
crashanddieaye09:01
ScribbleJMy SD card is only 2MB/sec - now that /is/ a bit slow to use.09:01
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* timeless_mbp grumbles09:02
crashanddietimeless_mbp: remember what my company does?09:02
timeless_mbpimporting kde is slow09:02
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: oh yeah, duh :)09:02
timeless_mbpit's too early in the morning for me to use my memory :)09:02
timeless_mbpit won't wake up for another 4 hours, it's very high latency :)09:02
slonopotamusokay09:02
slonopotamuswho ran diablo from sd here?09:02
slonopotamuswas it unusably slow?09:03
timeless_mbpobjection!09:03
timeless_mbpyour honor, calls for speculation09:03
timeless_mbpleading the witness09:03
* slonopotamus did. it was indistinguishable from diablo from internal flash.09:03
crashanddieslonopotamus: confirmed09:04
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, what's so different about fremantle that it needs much faster disk? i say what. nothing.09:04
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: you think maemo5 is a lighter or as light of a platform as maemo4?09:05
ScribbleJSo.... if I understand this right, the /opt decision was the product of a meeting of 10 people, total?09:05
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure it has more daemons than maemo409:05
timeless_mbpand does more stupid work09:05
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: you'd rather us collect the first 10,000 customers into a single room09:05
timeless_mbpand let them pick something?09:05
crashanddieScribbleJ: 10 people who care > whole community09:05
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, 37MBps is a speed of normal desktop hdd just several years ago.09:05
threshseveral as in 15?09:06
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: and we're talking about 20, half that :)09:06
ScribbleJI'm just saying, I was told earlier it was a community decision.09:06
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: it was09:06
ScribbleJ10 people doesn't sound like much of a community.09:06
timeless_mbpas opposed to a nokia decision09:06
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, ...09:06
crashanddieScribbleJ: it was annouced on multiple media09:06
crashanddieScribbleJ: if people don't show up, we can't force them to09:06
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, you don't write at that speed when running apps.09:06
ScribbleJHeck09:07
ScribbleJLet me put it another way09:07
slonopotamusw/e09:07
slonopotamusit's just crap :)09:07
ScribbleJI'd have expected 10 people on this issue from Nokia /alone/.09:07
ScribbleJNevermind the community.09:07
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: well, as noted people were notified about it09:07
timeless_mbpthose who came, came09:07
timeless_mbpthose who didn't, are the silent group you're faulting somehow09:08
ScribbleJSo at Nokia, meetings are like, hey, come if you feel like it, or go play basketball if you don't?09:08
crashanddieScribbleJ: it's a big issue in a lot of communities, but ours maybe moreso: people shout and yell when they hear a decision was made about a specific subject ONLY WHEN IT BOTHERS THEM. Whenever an issue is raised, but doesn't affect them, they couldn't be bothered09:08
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ScribbleJcrashanddie, timeless -- yes, I understand what you both are saying, but I'm saying forget the community... ten people isn't even a proper contingent from Nokia.09:09
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: at nokia, internally decisions are often made without any useful notice to anyone09:09
crashanddieScribbleJ: we don't know how many people decided this at Nokia09:09
timeless_mbpand people not present at the meeting are told "we made the decision at the meeting, read the minutes"09:09
timeless_mbpor09:10
crashanddiewelcome to corporations ;)09:10
timeless_mbppeople do come to a meeting, there's a discussion09:10
slonopotamuscrashanddie, ScribbleJ, that's all irrelevant. rootfs _already_ was 256mb and sd was _already_ partitioned as 2gb/768mb/30gb when that discussion took place.09:10
timeless_mbpand then afterwards we're told "management has decided to do something else"09:10
timeless_mbp"we will now do that"09:10
timeless_mbpwhat the maemo community did is very different from either nokia strategy09:10
crashanddieslonopotamus: we're actually talking about the fact that the nand is 256M -- who decided to only provide a 256M sized one09:10
timeless_mbpi hope you can see the difference and accept that it's much better than the alternatives09:10
ScribbleJI've had that happen to me, timeless... I remember when I was younger I had our whole office running on linux... one day, the BoD comes in and says, starting tomorrow we're a windows shop.09:10
ScribbleJHeh09:11
ScribbleJcrashanddie, no, that's not my perspective.  ANY sized NAND would be too small, what sized was picked is necessarily somewhat arbitrary.09:11
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crashanddiewell, drop me a line whenever you've invented unlimited memory09:12
timeless_mbpheh09:12
slonopotamusScribbleJ, so. just hack maemo to run from sd and let's bench it :)09:12
crashanddiebonus points if it has unlimited speed as well09:12
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: infinite is better than unlimited :)09:12
ScribbleJslonopotamus, I only got my N900 yesterday, first exposure to maemo... give me a little time.  :)09:12
crashanddieyeah, that was the word I was looking for timeless_mbp09:12
ScribbleJAt this point, I'm not entirerly clear on the boot sequence and what can be changed.09:12
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: it's linux, roughly anything can be changed09:13
crashanddieScribbleJ: then don't think you have answers or new questions. Most of the things you are saying have been said time and time again.09:13
slonopotamusScribbleJ, there's already bootmenu for n900.09:13
timeless_mbpand any change you make will have tradeoffs09:13
slonopotamusScribbleJ, and mer happily runs with it.09:13
ScribbleJcrashanddie, I'm sorry if I offended you; I don't think I've given any new suggestions, and my questions are just out of a hope to understand why the decision was made.09:13
ScribbleJslonopotamus, I don't know what anything you just said means. :)09:14
timeless_mbpScribbleJ: standard response "please use google, read the wiki, skim the mailinglist"09:14
timeless_mbp*before* asking questions. i.e. read first. ask questions later.09:14
ScribbleJtimeless, thanks, but I did read first, I was looking in the wrong places as GeneralAntilles pointed out earlier.09:14
ScribbleJWhen I did look in the right place, I was just stunned to hear this decision was the product of a meeting of 10 people, that's all.09:15
ScribbleJIT was just a shocker.09:15
timeless_mbp10 people is huge09:15
timeless_mbpread the average minutes for a maemo.org sprint09:15
timeless_mbpi think they have trouble getting 609:15
ScribbleJThat makes me a sad panda.09:15
timeless_mbpand that's including people paid to attend :)09:15
crashanddietimeless_mbp: try have a meaningful meeting with over 4 people, and have every single one of them provide useful contributions09:15
ScribbleJI assumed all six were!09:16
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crashanddie6 is usually the magic number, after that, people start playing magic bingo or desktop defense09:16
* timeless_mbp isn't sure there are 6 people paid to be maemo.orrg09:16
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ScribbleJSo I'm sure I'd figure this ut eventually, but who is the maemo wiz?  Is there someone on the Nokia team who is the daddy of the project?09:16
slonopotamusScribbleJ, techie?09:17
ScribbleJYeah, tech wise.09:17
slonopotamusScribbleJ, afaik, nobody :) at least not public09:17
ScribbleJThat makes me very sad.09:18
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ScribbleJWhen I imagine a day that there is an elegant solution to the / parition size issue in place, it makes me feel a little icky inside to contemplate all the packages that will still be installing things to /opt and odd places by default.09:20
pupnikhttp://www.shop.thesouthbutt.net/  the south butt is being sued by 'the north face'.  shop09:21
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ScribbleJWell, I'm sure it won't take me too long to get it all figured out -- except that little issue where I can't properly build or install a kernel... heh.09:22
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ScribbleJOkay, not to regress.09:24
ScribbleJBut09:24
ScribbleJWhat kind of sense does it make that default themes take up 14mb of my precious /?09:25
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ScribbleJIs that the kind of thing that's intentionally nonoptified?09:25
slonopotamus:)09:25
pupnikof course it is intentional.  the question is, is it a wise choice?09:26
slonopotamusScribbleJ, du -sh /usr/share/locales :)09:26
ScribbleJOh, I did.09:26
ScribbleJI wasn't sure what to do about that one though.09:26
slonopotamusrm -rf unused :)09:27
ScribbleJIs that kosher?09:27
slonopotamus... no09:27
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GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, that's not the only discussion. :)09:48
GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, and there are lots of extremely knowledgeable people both in the community and in Nokia.09:50
GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, unfortunately the /opt issue is a product of people realizing it was one way too late in the game.09:51
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GeneralAntillesScribbleJ, but, seriously, read more, denounce and judge less.09:51
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, maemo.org has 6 people.09:51
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, not counting Nokian's whose responsibilities tend to revolve around maemo.org09:51
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jukeyhi, there seems to be a problem regarding http://wiki.maemo.org10:13
jukeyare you able to load the page?10:13
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tekojojukey maintenance reboot10:13
jukeyah :)10:13
tekojoneed to install new kernel and nfs modules10:13
tekojoand then hope it is a bit more stable10:14
MyrttiMOAR COFFEE10:14
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jukeythanks, I'll try again late10:15
jukeyr10:15
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Myrttitekojo: btw I haet u. Was just going through bugz to check wiki bugs.10:29
Myrtti(with all my love, of course.)10:29
Myrtti10:29
pronto10:29
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aquatixgood moaning10:31
prontomorning10:32
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* MohammadAG wonders how he could disable the 5 bubble bootscreen/quiet boot at startup10:46
Stskeepsfb-progress10:47
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tybollt"? /opt should be a short-term solution.10:59
tybollt"10:59
tybollthmmmmmm...11:00
slonopotamustybollt: sure. for maemo5 lifetime :)11:00
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tybolltmaemo5 lifetime == short term solution? :)11:02
slonopotamustybollt: correction: maemo5 nokia support time :)11:02
tybolltright :P11:03
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hrw|gonehi11:05
tbfhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=497032#post49703211:06
tbf someone coming across a vodafone shop to check those magic features?11:06
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slonopotamushow vodafone can _not_support it? don't you just take your simcard and put in n900?11:07
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tbfslonopotamus: well, out of the box there is no java on the N90011:09
tbfslonopotamus: nor MMS11:09
tbfslonopotamus: so if they really have those features, there must be some vf specific software on the device11:10
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mrmgI'd be fairly sure it doesn't have those features11:19
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acidjazz4.0 MB/s - 333.7 MB of 1.6 GB, 5 mins left11:23
acidjazz<3 this internet11:23
prontoo.o11:23
prontok11:23
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acidjazzhows this new image? ppl usin it alot?11:23
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timeless_mbp??11:32
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acidjazzhey timeless_mbp11:40
timeless_mbphi11:40
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TriztFromWorkacidjazz; new image?11:57
acidjazzTriztFromWork: the vmware image on maemo.org11:57
acidjazzso fromt his pre-installed image where do i look next on steps to get the emu running?11:57
TriztFromWorkoh with the SDK, right?11:57
acidjazzyea11:58
SpeedEvilhmm11:58
TriztFromWorkI guess I will make a try when I get back home tonight11:59
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meceacidjazz, wow sounds sweet. I can run that bad boy from win, right? My old winxp work machine get a little sluggish when running linux mint running scratchbox12:03
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acidjazzmece; yup12:05
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acidjazzhmm12:10
acidjazzso i started up the emu and there are like zero apps .. not even a browser or anything12:10
ShadowJKit's not an emulator12:11
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ShadowJKthere is no emulator12:11
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w00tmorning maemo :)12:12
alteregoShadowJK: what's qemu about then :P12:12
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ShadowJKcpu transparency12:12
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alteregoErm .. That's not just what it's used for is it now ..12:13
alteregoIt's used for _emulating_ an ARM processor in scratchbox.12:13
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timeless_mbphttp://www.youtube.com/v/vOhf3OvRXKg&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1 is amazing12:14
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acidjazzdope timeless_mbp12:20
timeless_mbp?12:20
timeless_mbpah, slang12:20
acidjazzanywyas any answer to my ? of why no apps or anything my fresh pre-made vm sdk?12:21
timeless_mbp?12:21
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timeless_mbpdo you have app manager?12:21
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acidjazzall i have is settings and more12:22
acidjazzi do12:22
acidjazzno apps available12:22
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tybolltacidjazz: ls -al /etc/apt/sources.list/hildon*12:24
tybolltacidjazz: does that file exist?12:25
timeless_mbpwhat's in more?12:25
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acidjazzsec12:25
timeless_mbpbecause app manager should be in more12:25
acidjazzinstalling vmware tools..12:25
timeless_mbpyou typically have to install things w/ it12:25
acidjazzit is in more timeless_mbp just says no apps to install12:25
timeless_mbpthe sdk doesn't come with lots of preinstalled junk12:25
timeless_mbptap the title area12:25
timeless_mbptap catalogs12:25
timeless_mbp(or catalogues)12:25
tybolltacid:_: you need to populate the sources list12:26
tybolltduuh :)12:26
timeless_mbp... the sdk doesn't come with lots of preinstalled junk12:26
timeless_mbp... because most people don't need it12:26
timeless_mbpif you have settings and app manager, then you have enough to build most things12:26
tybolltI don't think it is unreasonable to assume someone installing SDK knows how to handle apt12:26
timeless_mbpsome things would only come from accepting nokia's nokia-closed binary terms12:27
acidjazzwow this really _is_ that bare12:27
timeless_mbptybollt: we provide ham, so we don't assume that :)12:27
timeless_mbpacidjazz: the sdk is *NOT* an emulator12:27
timeless_mbpit's a software *DEVELOPMENT* kit12:27
* TriztFromWork hates apt and no one has taken the time to make a recent ebuild12:27
tybollttimeless_mbp: :P12:27
acidjazzyea i know all that and it makes sense just that the sdk stuff before this acme w/ it all instal12:27
acidjazzinstalled*12:27
acidjazztimeless_mbp: sdk + emulator12:28
SpeedEvilNo.12:28
acidjazzits a software development kit tha tincludes an emulator12:28
SpeedEvilIt's really not an emulator of the final phone.12:28
acidjazzwhy cuz its x8612:28
acidjazzbut it is an emulator12:28
acidjazzbasic concept12:28
SpeedEvilIt emulates the CPU only.12:28
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timeless_mbpacidjazz: it lets you run the apps you write12:28
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acidjazzthe phone that appears in your computer is not a phone it is an _emulation_ of the phone12:28
timeless_mbpit doesn't emulate the phone12:28
acidjazznot _the_ phone but _a_ phone :)12:28
timeless_mbpit doesn't emulate the camera12:28
timeless_mbpor the gps12:28
timeless_mbpor the ir port12:28
SpeedEvilor the phone12:28
TriztFromWorkdoes the SDK work on an arm machine?12:29
acidjazzstill an emulator..12:29
timeless_mbpor ..12:29
timeless_mbpacidjazz: WYSIWYG12:29
timeless_mbpit lets you run hildon12:29
acidjazzk this conversations over :)12:29
acidjazzwere on the same page12:29
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SpeedEvilTriztFromWork: The emulator runs under qemu - so you can test your apps, and compile natively.12:29
acidjazzSpeedEvil just called it an emulator12:30
SpeedEvilTriztFromWork: in one mode - and in a similar x86 environment for 'normal' debugging12:30
acidjazzNYAH12:30
SpeedEvilIt is an emulator od some functions - not of the whole phone.12:30
* RST38h moos thoughtfully12:30
RST38hSo what is the current discussion about? "N900 is not a phone" again?12:30
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WolfieRST38h: the SDK is not a N900, more like12:31
TriztFromWorkSpeedEvil; but the emulator itself is x86? I think I could only run my "apps2 only if I compiled x8612:31
SpeedEvilTriztFromWork: you will normally compile and run your apps as x86 - and do most debugging there.12:31
SpeedEvilTriztFromWork: as it's faster - and most bugs are CPU independant.12:31
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* TriztFromWork nods12:31
TriztFromWorkit was just that I thought of getting an arm based laptop12:32
SpeedEvilTriztFromWork: then you compile as ARM - and run it under the emulator to check for wierd oopses.12:32
tybolltRST38h: Got a mail from nookia this morning "install ovi on your PC" ... I downloaded it but the bastard would not install on my N900 :-|12:32
alteregoDamnit, why doesn't the N900 auto setup usb0 when it's plugged in >:(12:32
tybollt;-)12:32
SpeedEvilalterego: it's not always what you want.12:32
SpeedEvilIt should be configurable - I don't know if hte standard UI lets you pick a default though12:33
TriztFromWorksometimes I have got that the N900 thinks it's connected to a computer when I use the nokia charger12:33
SpeedEvilbad connection12:33
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Stskeepsnokia charger will provide your mass storage over the electric network ;p12:33
SpeedEvilcheck the connector is not fully in12:33
ahmedammaranyone here have any experience with gst-dsp12:33
alteregoNo, it doesn't automatically bring it up it seems.12:34
acidjazzlol dont install ovi12:34
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alterego/etc/network/interfaces has it.12:34
TriztFromWorkI'm not talking about  the usb cable, but the one you plugin to the wall12:34
SpeedEvilStskeeps: I argued way back in the day for the OM phones that a charger with a hub on top would be cool.12:34
tybolltacidjazz: that was a joke though12:34
lardmanandre__: did you knoe that calendar bugs are sent to nobody@maemo.org?12:34
tybolltlardman: it's not a bug it's a feature!12:35
andre__lardman, but hasn't that been for years, with 15 other products too?12:35
acidjazzshould i write apps in python or ruby12:35
ShadowJKthe usb charging spec seems to have provisions for creating docking stations12:35
lardmanandre__: yeah, but I would like some calendar bugs fixed12:35
slono_n900lardman, lol :) really?12:35
andre__lardman, bug 630? ;-)12:35
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630 Increased Bugzilla transparency - get the developers involved!12:35
timeless_mbptybollt: complaint to nokia care :)12:35
lardmanandre__: no, later than that12:36
timeless_mbpalterego: if you choose pc suite mode it doesn't setup usb0?12:36
lardmanandre__: and fwiw there are lots of calendar bugs/enhancements12:36
andre__so.....?12:37
* timeless_mbp chuckles12:37
lardmanall headed to /dev/null12:37
timeless_mbplardman: bugzilla internally didn't handle enhancements12:37
timeless_mbpuntil recently12:37
timeless_mbpand i doubt that really includes fremantle anyway12:37
lardmanyeah I know, but it doesn't fill me with hope that no-one's actually seen these bugs anyway12:38
timeless_mbpwell, at least you're a realist12:38
timeless_mbpbetter than it fill you with hope for a year and you be crushed by that hope12:38
timeless_mbpobviously it's doing its job :)12:38
* Stskeeps ponders a "clone my n900" tool12:39
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lardmanI know my hope wuold be crushed if I expected any enhancements to be made, but at least if someone looked at them I could let the calendar team know how rubbish their ui is12:39
lardman;)12:39
tybolltnokia put up a bugzilla just so users would have something to do instead of calling helpdesk12:39
tybollt;)12:39
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acidjazzhmm my setup does have app catalogs12:40
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acidjazzi ownder if maybe the phone just doesnt have internet12:40
lardmantybollt: lol12:40
acidjazzthe emu..12:40
timeless_mbplardman: i sure hope they know12:40
timeless_mbpif they don't, we really have problems :(12:40
* TriztFromWork hates iis12:40
* timeless_mbp ponders12:40
Corsacin soviet russia, iis hates you12:40
timeless_mbpchar *12:40
timeless_mbpasctime_r (struct tm const * restrict tm, char * restrict buf)12:40
timeless_mbp{12:40
timeless_mbp  return copy_string_result (buf, asctime (tm));12:40
timeless_mbp}12:40
timeless_mbpthey call that reentrant safe?12:40
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acidjazzhow can i test if my emu has internet .. lol no ping12:42
timeless_mbpssh12:42
timeless_mbpor just read about /etc/nsswitch.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolve.conf or something like that12:42
acidjazzdamn internte works12:42
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acidjazzmaybe these repos setup in the sdk are invalid?12:42
timeless_mbpssh probably cheats12:43
timeless_mbpdid you check the two files?12:43
timeless_mbpthey're typically wrong12:43
timeless_mbpgoogle will explain12:44
acidjazzi fixed the scrtachbox resolv.conf12:44
acidjazzssh works12:44
acidjazzit has internet12:44
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acidjazzgona verify the catalog repos12:44
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acidjazzai_ib_unable_edit12:45
acidjazzcant edit catalogs :/12:45
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tybollttimeless_mbp: on a more serious note though, HAM is not _just_ a pure apt wrapper - is it?12:45
lardmandoes anyone know what the calendar backend is?12:45
timeless_mbptybollt: with a different apt resolver algorithm12:46
lardmani.e. is there an api for it?12:46
timeless_mbpit basically is12:46
Stskeepslardman: calendar-backend12:46
Stskeeps(oss)12:46
timeless_mbpStskeeps: how dare they have a reasonable name!12:46
timeless_mbpthat's totally unaccpetable!12:46
timeless_mbps/pe/ep/12:46
acidjazzso all i did was mount the new vmware .. go into terminal and start up the SDK UI12:46
infobottimeless_mbp meant: that's totally unacceptable!12:46
lardmanStskeeps: thanks12:46
spectre-is joikuspot going to be open source or am i going to have to pay for it12:48
Stskeepsspectre-: changes are pay12:48
Stskeepschances12:48
Stskeepsyou can probably make it command line yourself12:48
lardmanhmm wrong attitude, you don't pay, you go and write a better version12:48
spectre-er are other joikuspot ports open already?12:49
spectre-or is that a pay app on other platforms?12:49
Myrttilatter12:49
spectre-damnit12:49
spectre-we need an open alternative12:49
spectre-i'm sure bridging would do it12:49
SpeedEvilWhat is it?12:49
Myrttihere are the specs, why don't you code12:49
spectre-if br-utils were available for maemo12:49
rangeThere already is bluetooth DUN ...12:50
Stskeepsthey are, afaik12:50
Stskeeps:P12:50
spectre-can i run native debian packages on here?12:50
SpeedEviloh - it's a mifi thing12:50
spectre-from, say, etch?12:50
ptmanbtw, is there bluetooth pan? that would be so much better than dun12:50
rangeThere's the bluez stack on the phone, so ...12:51
SpeedEvilhttp://intr.overt.org/blog/?p=9412:51
SpeedEvilclaims so12:51
SpeedEvilpan12:51
acidjazzai_ib_unable_edit still12:51
acidjazzcant modify catalogs in the app manager12:51
acidjazzmaemo needs to make their sdk alot more out of the box if they want more developers writing apps :/12:52
alteregoacidjazz: use the VM.12:52
alteregoThat's abotu as "out-of-the-box" as you can.12:52
alteregoAnd if you call yourself a developer and you can't follow the installation procedure, which is damn easy really. Then you're not really a particularly good developer are you :P12:53
acidjazzalterego: that what im trying to do :/12:53
acidjazzi tried to follow it as detailed as possible12:53
alteregoWhat's your problem then>?12:53
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acidjazzi started up the emu and no apps installed nothin .. just an app manager w/ a catalog i cant edit12:54
acidjazzi get ai_ib_unable_edit notification12:54
spectre-!ping12:54
timeless_mbpacidjazz: add a repository12:54
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acidjazzjuts said i cant12:55
acidjazzwont let me modify the catalogs12:55
timeless_mbpmsgid "ai_ib_unable_edit"12:55
timeless_mbpmsgstr "Can't edit this catalog"12:55
timeless_mbpand i said *ADD* onw12:55
timeless_mbps/w/e/12:55
infobottimeless_mbp meant: and i said *ADD* one12:55
timeless_mbpdon't try to edit the one that's there, add a new one12:55
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alteregoHow come my /dev/video0 is identical to my /dev/video1 when viewed on a gst pipeline?12:56
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timeless_mbpheh12:56
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alteregoDifferent device node.12:57
alteregoIS this a known issue?12:58
timeless_mbpfirst time i've seen it, ask google12:58
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acidjazz"Enter web address first"12:58
alteregoOh wait, I typo'd the device parameter ;)12:58
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timeless_mbphttp://uadmin.blogspot.com/2009/03/beginning-of-end-of-opensource.html12:59
timeless_mbp> Blue suits and stuffy bushiness men don't get along with long beards and pony tails of the Open Source community, even Sun's dress code doesn't match well with IBM, Sun's dress code by the way is simple. "You must dress, use your best judgement."12:59
* timeless_mbp chuckles12:59
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Stskeeps"must dress", excellent12:59
timeless_mbpyeah12:59
acidjazzhmm let me add hte maemo extras13:00
timeless_mbptoo bad i never heard that one until today13:00
alteregowow, the video quality is god aweful on the front camera :)13:00
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: please note the last comment of the blog13:00
alteregoLooks like there's loads of RF interference or something.13:00
acidjazzi dont even think ur supposed to konw that exists yet alterego13:00
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: aww13:01
timeless_mbpwell, i'll give him this: they're shiny13:01
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timeless_mbpdefinitely overdoing it13:01
acidjazzhere we go theres somtehing in the log13:01
lardmanhmm, just watched video of Palm Pre, looks crap13:01
lardmanNo, I tell a lie13:02
acidjazzget btadapter: the name org.bluez was not provided by any .service files13:02
lardmanMotarola Milestone13:02
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acidjazz /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/defaults: No suc file or directory13:02
timeless_mbppoor high school girls13:02
lardmanah, that will be why it's running Android then13:02
timeless_mbpthe prom dresses are ~50% more than bridesmaids dresses13:02
acidjazzthen a bunch of error retriving file info: No such file or directory13:03
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acidjazzis there any1 in here thats successful setup the sdk ui via the new vmware image?13:04
timeless_mbpurl?13:05
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acidjazzme?13:05
timeless_mbpyes13:05
timeless_mbpyour description is useless w/o a url to the 'new vmware image'13:06
acidjazzhttp://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo_fremantle_and_diablo_sdk_virtual_image_final_version_released/13:06
acidjazzit was this announcement couple dyas ago13:06
timeless_mbpwell i missed it :)13:06
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acidjazzim just gonna re-install the sdk i think13:07
spectre-yeah i'm looking forward to video skype calls13:08
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spectre-with the front camera13:08
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acidjazzThis image is out-of-the-box ready Maemo SDK Virtual Image. Image includes the latest version of Ubuntu Intrepid Desktop Edition together with full Maemo Fremantle and Diablo development environments preinstalled and configured.13:09
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acidjazzthey even like setup bookmarks in firefox for api docs13:11
odin_is Ubuntu debian based?  (never been a user of Ubuntu)13:11
timeless_mbpyes13:11
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acidjazztimeless_mbp: dont get me wrong i had 0 issues settup in the sdk via the docs13:12
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acidjazzsetting up*13:12
acidjazzjust was lookin forward to this cuz that previous setup took forever13:12
* timeless_mbp kicks svn13:12
* ShadowJK doubts skype videocalls will arrive13:13
acidjazzithink they will13:14
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zaheermspectre-, it will require someone to port and optimise vp7 (that is what skype video uses)13:19
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acidjazzlol holy shit13:20
acidjazzi just realized that app called conky13:20
acidjazzis from that doll conky from trailer park boy s:)13:20
acidjazzhttp://www.pocketbikepics.com/data/502/medium/conky8.jpg13:20
acidjazzhilarious13:20
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acidjazztimeless_mbp: are yo gonna mess w/ that vm?13:21
timeless_mbpnope13:21
timeless_mbpi already have two vms13:21
timeless_mbpi'll update mer when i'm told13:21
timeless_mbpi might try to fix my osol vm13:21
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acidjazzzip up and give me one :)13:22
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inzHmm, my N900 decided that it didn't want to join the WPA networks of the uni.13:23
inzLuckily applying force (read: reboot) helped13:24
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acidjazzrad the eula in the maemo 5 ui installer doesnt work13:27
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GAN900inz, there's a bug floating around.13:30
meceacidjazz, got an url for that vm image?13:30
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acidjazzhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php13:34
meceacidjazz, thankee-sai13:34
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acidjazzurl isnt responding13:35
acidjazzfor me13:35
acidjazzguess its being flooded or down?13:35
meceis GNU general the most open license?13:36
acidjazzyea maemo.org is failing everywhere13:38
rangeGNU is not a license at all.13:38
zashrange: you missed the word "general"13:38
acidjazzgnu is an os13:38
bilboed-pigeneral is a rank in the army13:39
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zash:D13:39
rangezash: I thought that sentence was missing an "in".13:39
mecethanks for the help guys.13:39
meceI meant GPL :)13:39
zashrange: i thougt it missed "public license"13:39
acidjazzmece; did u get that image13:39
meceacidjazz, nope. Borked13:40
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ptlhello13:40
rangemece: And that is something which is a) debatable and which b) others have debated over for a long time. So there's no general(!) answer to that.13:40
acidjazzfucking this sdk ui shit13:40
ptlhow do I install an scratchbox 2 target on esbox?13:40
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acidjazzim just gonna put sshd on my phone code on the damn phone13:40
rangeGoogle knows more in this case.13:40
zashmece: open for what? :P13:40
zashand then there's "free"13:40
mecezash wel li wanted to start a project and it asked for license13:40
meceI got bored and chose GPL something something.13:41
ptlI try to add a scrathbox 2 target (my scratchbox 2 is on /scratchbox) and it says "No build machine configured or applicable SDKs installed"13:41
ptlhow do I correct it?13:41
tybolltmece: no13:41
acidjazzfaelmo.org13:41
zashacidjazz: lol13:42
mecetybollt, ok.. so I should have gone with "None" ?13:42
tybolltmece: if you want truely open - use BSDL/ISC style license.13:42
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zashmece: I like the "I don't give a shit-license"13:42
mecezash, that's the one I wanted.13:42
rangeAs said, that is debatable. And I think this is probably the wrong channel to discuss that.13:42
zash:D13:42
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mecezash, I didn't realize that "None" was an option, which it was...13:42
threshDWTFPL is teh best13:42
tybolltmece: If you don't license your code it's problematic at best. If you really don't care at all then put it in the public domain13:43
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ptlno one knows? or is my question dumb? I have tried to google it but no dice.13:43
threshWTF PL for the win13:43
MyrttiFinnish legistlation doesn't recognice public domain, btw13:43
mecerange, tybollt, zash, what does putting it in the public domain mean?13:43
ptlPlease, I am keen to program for maemo.13:43
zashGPL → free code, BSD → free devels13:43
mecewell I went with gpl either way.13:43
Myrttimece: you revoke all your claims to it. Finnish legistlation assumes you can't revoke your own copyrights.13:44
tybolltmece: sorry to hear you locked your code in. :-(13:44
meceI wanted people to be able to use my code to whateverthefuck they want and sell it for a million bucks if they feel like it.13:44
mecetybollt, it's not written in stone13:44
tybolltmece: according to your statement - you want BSDL13:45
tybolltnot gpl :)13:45
mecetybollt, i just registered a project in garage.13:45
ptlGPL allows anyone to sell the code or compiled code for a million bucks13:45
ptlit just disallows closing the source13:45
tybolltyeah13:45
ptlDo you really want people to close the modifications to your code?13:45
tybolltgpl ! "whatever the fuck you want"13:45
rangeBSD neither.13:45
rangeYou need to at least keep the copyrights intact.13:46
tybolltprovided you keep the copyright notice it is :)13:46
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meceptl, I really don't care. But I'm happy with GPL atm. Mostly because it was the first on the list, hence least amount of work to choose it.13:46
zashmece: :D13:46
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ptlI am not criticizing you13:46
ptljust raising a point13:46
zash"least amount of work" ftw13:47
meceptl, I guess you have a point though.13:47
tybolltmece: sure... if you're content w/ locking the BSD community out - go for it =)13:47
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ptlI don't even know what your code is all about13:47
mecetybollt, I have no idea what the BSD community is, so yeah, I'm fine with that.13:47
tybollt:-D13:47
adeushttp://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/13:47
ptlthere are projects for which I think BSDL is best, others for which I think GPL is best13:47
Robot101bsd license is nothing much to do with the bsd community13:47
ptleven the FSF founder Richard Stallman does not think the GPL is the best license for all cases13:47
mecetybollt, I can change the license later I suppose. I haven't actually submitted any code so... :)13:48
ptlhence the LGPL... and he also told the ogg people the best license for their code would be a BSD-like license, which they adopted13:48
ptlanywaaaay13:49
mecelicenses annoy me.13:49
mece:D13:49
ptlyou guys seem experienced coders13:49
meceptl, yees?13:49
meceLOL, I mean no.13:49
ptlwhy not help me here and tell me what the heck should I do to use scratchbox 2 under esbox?13:49
Myrttibest discussions ever: license fight GPL vs. BSD/MIT @ company christmas party13:49
ptlI try to add a scratchbox 2 target and it says "no, no, no" to me13:49
meceMyrtti, I bet :D13:49
ptlsays "No build machine configured or applicable SDKs installed""13:50
ptlI'm stuck on this one13:50
ptlI am sure 10 more hours of googling about it would get me the solution13:50
ptlbut I don't have 10 hours to spare with that... please?13:50
acidjazzi need some good python examples13:51
ptlesbox has them, acidjazz13:51
meceacidjazz, I've been knee deep in python the last few days. what do you need?13:51
ptllol13:51
meceacidjazz, I downloaded source for touchsearch and witter to get some ideas.13:52
ptlat least point me to proper documentation13:53
meceacidjazz, I can send you the stuff I'm working on if you want.13:54
meceacidjazz, it's crude stuff though, so wear goggles.13:54
acidjazzmece: just wanna get into it w/ hildon13:54
acidjazzoh touchserach is in python eh?13:54
acidjazzi juts need good examples to get going13:54
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acidjazzmece: can u point me to the source of touchsearch?13:55
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meceok hold on. touchsearch is a widget though. not the same as an application.13:55
acidjazzwhatd you use as a good source to an application example?13:56
meceacidjazz, this is where I started: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/HildonDesktop13:56
acidjazzim at http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/UITutorial/Getting_started#Hello_World_in_Hildon13:56
acidjazzmece; are you coding in an sdk or the phone?13:56
meceacidjazz, both, depending on if I'm at computer or in sofa/car/train/can13:56
meceacidjazz, here's touchsearch source: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/source/t/touchsearch/13:57
acidjazztnx13:57
meceacidjazz, this is the stuff I'm working on: http://twitpic.com/zu3bf13:58
ptl:(13:58
acidjazzgonna have to wait ofr maem.org to be back up13:58
acidjazzdope .. the comic widget?13:58
meceptl, All I have is http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Maemo_5_SDK_installation_for_beginners13:59
meceacidjazz, that's what I'm doing atm.13:59
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acidjazzwhats the transmit switch thing mece13:59
meceacidjazz, it turns on transmitter and boosts it if you want it to.14:00
meceit's in extras I believe.14:00
acidjazzwhat transmitter?14:00
zashfm radio?14:01
acidjazzah14:01
acidjazzim gonna nap and hopefully wake up to a working faelmo.org14:01
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tybollthmm14:03
tybolltnap14:03
tybolltI'll go ask my boss if I can nap for a while14:03
fragmentwhy ask? just do it14:06
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t_s_ohmm, are the repos having a bad day?14:12
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mecet_s_o, yes, and freenode too apparently...14:13
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jebbaagain? Hmm.  http://espejo.freemoe.org   <--- mirrors14:13
zashMade of fail and aids!14:13
t_s_omece: there was a warning sendt out about the freenode "issue" ;)14:13
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meceI see.14:13
t_s_ojebba: thanks, but i use maemo 4...14:14
jebbaah sry14:14
meceis there a howto on packaging python stuff for maemo?14:15
tybolltt_s_o: "freenode issue"?14:15
t_s_otybollt: they appear to be doing some server maintenance, and so need to restructure the network14:16
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mecewhoa project approved. That was fast. Didn't take quite the 72 hours that were expected.14:18
mecewho manages the garage anyway? Anyone here?14:18
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tekojo_the 72 hours is a worst case14:20
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meceguessed as much, still, it was a very fast response. Much appreciated.14:21
tekojo_it's a question of when the people with approval rights happen to sit by a computer14:22
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cedahmm, tracker doesn't index my files, or actually, it counts down from five minutes to zero, and the result is: nothing. No files, no video, no images, no sound. Take a screenshot. Still nothing (though I can find the file from X terminal and the file manageR)14:29
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jebbaceda: is it plugged in via USB?14:30
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tekojorepositories are back from hibernation14:32
bilboed-piis there any chance libpurple will be fixed to have icq working ?14:32
bilboed-pias opposed to downgrading to a previous version14:32
cedajebba: uhm, right now yes. But it fails after bootup as well.14:32
ceda(with USB disconnected)14:33
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fralsprogramming java after sitting a month in python leads to alot of errors ;(14:34
jebbawell, leave it with USB disconnected awhile and perhaps it will index. If it's connected to your PC via USB it may not index fotos if it is mounted.14:34
cedajebba: I ran tracker-stats (as root) and it segfaulted (and the crash report popped up)14:36
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mecehaving git on the phone makes me all tingly in my nether regions...14:40
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alteregoSuccessfully streaming h264 video across thet network from the N900 to my laptop :)14:48
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mecehey where's that file that you modify to add paths and such on the N900. Like .profile on regular linux boxes14:50
Shrik3alterego: from the camera or where?14:50
spectre-alter14:51
spectre-what app are you using for that14:51
alteregoShrik3: camera the front one or the back one.14:51
alteregogst-launch14:51
alteregoOn both ends14:51
Shrik3any idea if that will work with a N810?14:51
alteregoPossibly, I don't have mine on me to test though14:52
spectre-gst-launch eh14:53
spectre-can i apt-get that?14:53
alteregoYup, that's how I got it.14:53
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spectre-from what repo14:55
ptlDoes someone here uses esbox with scratchbox 2 ? I can't add the scratchbox 2 target!14:55
alteregoextras testing probably, not entirely sure.14:55
jebbaalterego: can you paste the command you ran somewhere like http://pastebin.ca if they are long?14:56
* ptl justs subscribed to esbox mailing lists to see if someone can help him14:56
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alteregohttp://pastie.org/79677614:57
ShadikkaI think that qualifies as "long", yes.14:58
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alterego:) I plan on wrapping it in a python script with libsoup support for sdp advertisment.14:59
Shrik3that's some serious command line-fu right there14:59
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bilboed-pialterego, you know about gst-rtsp-server, right ? :)15:00
GeneralAntillesI really, really, really, want this guy to fry his N900. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39753&page=415:00
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bilboed-piGeneralAntilles, and his pants while at it :)15:01
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Shrik3seriously, overclocking his N900?15:03
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jebbaalterego: http://gitorious.org/freemoe/freemoe/blobs/master/bin/freemoe-gst-video :)15:05
spectre-whats that?15:06
spectre-the gst thing he mentioned earlier?15:06
jebbaGeneralAntilles: i've run mine at 600MHz for periods too. It's completely permitted by the kernel. I didnt notice anything adverse. I set the cpu governor to user, and echo'd 600000 > /sys/somewhere/cpu0/....15:07
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GeneralAntillesjebba, long term you're talking reducing CPU longevity to months.15:07
jebbait's not really "overclocking" though, as the CPU is designed to run at that speed.15:08
GeneralAntillesjebba, it's not designed to be locked at that speed for extended periods, though.15:08
jebbaah. Perhaps.15:08
jebbaWhere's docs on that?15:08
GeneralAntillesjebba, Igor Stoppa has slides up somewhere from the Summit.15:08
jebbaah ok15:08
jebbathx15:08
GeneralAntillesIt's also been corroborated by TI engineers working on the Beagle Board.15:09
mgedminthere was a picture somewhere on the web15:09
MistaEDwouldnt it be better to concentrate on adding shader support to offload some video decoding to the pvr sgx gpu? or are they doing that already?15:09
jebbamine doesnt smell as burnt as it used to  ;15:09
GeneralAntillesMistaED, the DSP handles video decoding.15:10
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* GeneralAntilles suspects benny1967 still has him on ignore.15:17
MistaEDyuv to rgb conversion could be done with a shader still, wonder if that is already been done :o15:18
alteregojebba: that's identical to mine :)15:19
alteregoAnd I mean _identical_ :D15:19
* GeneralAntilles wonders whose palms he needs to grease to get input here. http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-January/003833.html15:22
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Damion2can I force mine to remain under clocked ?15:27
Damion2like 250 or even lower?15:27
GeneralAntillesDamion2, why?15:27
Damion2I'm assuming it may help with battery drain, and if I see something move sluggishly I know it;s something which I can avoid using as I know under normal (changing freq) conditions, would be eating more15:28
GeneralAntillesIt wont15:28
GeneralAntillesAre you familiar with the concept of Race to Idle?15:28
Damion2explain15:28
GeneralAntillesSay you have a given task.15:29
GeneralAntillesThat takes a certain amount of time to complete at 600MHz.15:29
GeneralAntillesand say that task takes more than twice as much time to complete at 250MHz.15:29
slonopotamusDamion2: smth like echo 250000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq15:29
GeneralAntillesThe difference in power consumption between 250MHz and 600MHz is relatively small compared to the difference between idle and in-use.15:30
Damion2GeneralAntilles: I see where you're going15:30
Damion2okay15:30
meceA very good point GeneralAntilles15:30
Damion2so even the encryption and X11 dealing that my ssh in xterm is doing should be using the correct amount at all times15:30
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GeneralAntillesSo in one case, you have the CPU consuming slightly more power for a significantly shorter period of time and in the other you have it consuming slightly less power but consuming it  over a much longer period of time.15:30
GeneralAntillesDamion2, the power saving is quite intelligent.15:31
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GeneralAntillesDamion2, it does a good job of picking the right CPU state for the job.15:31
meceI was thinking about the 3g battery eating. If I'm not mistaken, The same (somewhat) applies to 3g,. eg. the faster the connection, the shorter the time being connected.15:31
Damion2ideally when no data is passing it should be running idle, HLT instructions?15:31
GeneralAntillesmece, that depends on a larger number of variables, though.15:31
slonopotamusGeneralAntilles: then why not run with performance governor? :)15:31
GeneralAntillesDamion2, the CPU is consuming the next best thing to zero power when it's not in use.15:32
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Damion2excellent15:32
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, because a long-running task that consumes a small amount of CPU will kill your battery, then.15:32
meceGeneralAntilles, yes, but in general, at least when moving around large amounts, I'd say that it's definately more battery friendly with a 5Mbps line than a 384kbps (like mine)15:32
alteregomece: where have you got the data to backup that theory? ^.^15:33
GeneralAntillesmece, of course if you're just pushing IRC packets around every so often and your network operator requires your modem to remain on for 60 seconds after every communication. . . .15:33
GeneralAntillesThen you'd be better off with EDGE.15:33
mecealterego, where did I give the impression that I have data?15:34
alterego:) You seem so sure :P15:34
Damion2has anyone done a widget that shows estimated time to battery drain, just like a laptop shows ?15:34
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, for the optimal case, yes, locking to performance would offer better battery life (setting aside the obvious issue of killing your SoC).15:34
meceGeneralAntilles, yes, that is true. Edge vs 3G is totally different. Talking slow 3g vs fast 3g here. But for irc it's the same afaik.15:34
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, but the optimal case is rarely the one that actually occurs in reality.15:34
mecealterego, just specualting.15:34
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, and 600MHz at 1% or 250MHz at 2% can mean the difference between 5 and 10 hours of battery life.15:35
alteregoTeeheehee15:35
GeneralAntillesDamion2, anyway, Nokia's powersaving engineers are good at their jobs. ;)15:35
Damion2has somebody done a widget or something which can toggle 2G/3G ?15:35
alteregoI just swapped the video source to ximagesrc, now I'm streaming the N900's desktop over the network to my laptop.15:35
slonopotamusGeneralAntilles: if you have 2% of 250MHz for 10 hours, something is broken in your software.15:35
Damion2GeneralAntilles: well they excelled themselves on all previous devices15:35
Damion2I've not charged my phone last night and it's okay15:36
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, :shrug: some people use broken software.15:36
alteregoHrm, performace isn't great.15:36
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GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, for the average case, CPU throttling makes a lot of sense.15:36
Damion2I have a script which some logic based on lid closed etc, which I start in /etc/ip-up.d/ to take me off line and that helps15:36
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GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, besides, with the N900, locking at 550MHz or above is going to kill your CPU.15:36
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, so you have to throttle if you want max performance.15:36
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slonopotamusGeneralAntilles: how do you know that?15:37
Damion2wouldn't the cpu peg itself high if you stress it with some ffmpeg/gcc of whathave you ?15:37
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, because Igor Stoppa and several TI engineers said so.15:37
GeneralAntillesDamion2, the powersaving setup have safety interlocks in place for that.15:38
slonopotamusso... did they disable performance governor then?15:38
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Damion2somebody is claiming http://www.derekhail.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/holly-valance-hot-t.jpg is coming to work in our office, and somebody looking just like that was at lunch15:43
Shrik3why would a singer work in an office?15:43
Damion2beats me15:43
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tybolltDamion2: SFW?15:44
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Damion2tybollt: that depends on where you work, if they monitor web traffic and if you care, or have your screen seen by anyone15:45
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Damion2frankly I'd risk goatse.cx at my desk as nobody can see it ;)15:45
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tybolltheh15:46
Damion2it's tame, just a pretty pic, dressed15:46
Myrttitybollt: no nipples15:46
ifreqtittiessss15:46
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tybolltnipples is probably fine...15:46
Myrttiifreq: yes, what about the bird? I rather like the song of the great tit15:46
tybollt2g1c is probably not15:46
tybollt;D15:46
rangeMyrtti: Too bad that the sex guys got that domain: nice-tits.org15:47
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Myrttirange: indeed15:47
rangeBecause there were some very nice birds on there >:D15:47
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Damion2for those who've heard of tub girl, you should laugh at tubguy.com15:52
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Damion2and yes this IS SFW15:52
meceI can confir, it's sfw.15:53
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mececonfirm too15:53
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spectre-the new goatse.cx is pretty funny too15:54
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spectre-also sfw last i checked15:54
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Damion2confirm15:55
Damion2now, does anyone know how to switch 2g to 3g programatically rather than via the UI settings15:55
Damion2settings UI that is15:55
tybolltDamion2: check the source code of the UI app? :)15:56
Damion2oh15:56
* slonopotamus couldn't understand the purpose of that 2/3g switch app.15:56
Damion2that's a good idea.  I've not yet grabbed it all15:56
Damion2slonopotamus: which one?  there is one?15:56
spectre-i demand to be downgraded to 2g15:57
spectre-god damn newfangled 3g crap15:57
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tybolltDamion2: yes there's an app for changing between 2g and 3g15:57
spectre-:p15:57
tybolltheh15:57
spectre-sounds wierd to me15:57
tybolltthey have just released 4g (LTE) here in Stockolm15:57
Damion23G doesn't make it very well to the downstairs of my house, so the phone switches between them which causes a delay for ~7seconds when it does it and it keep bouncing15:57
spectre-ahhhhh15:57
Damion2also trains do this a lot, also don't need 3g for ssh (only browsing)15:57
tybolltApparently current gen 4G maxes out at about 40Mbit/s15:58
slonopotamuswhy one wants to downgrade to 2g?15:58
spectre-4g can do much faster15:58
spectre-theoretically15:58
tybolltslonopotamus: to avoid flapping between 2g/3g15:58
spectre-100 to gigabit for stationary reception15:58
tybolltspectre-: in theory yes15:58
Damion2what speed can this n900 do ?  I don't recall seeing over about 4Mbits/sec on any tyoe of connection, despite the 802.11Gness of it, or the 7.? max 3G15:58
slonopotamustybollt: why one cares?15:58
Damion2slonopotamus: 3G doesn't make it very well to the downstairs of my house, so the phone switches between them which causes a delay for ~7seconds when it does it and it keep bouncing15:59
* slonopotamus saw 3.5g on his n900 in some places. anyone knows what that means? :)15:59
Damion2slonopotamus: HSDPA rather than stock 3G I think15:59
tybolltslonopotamus: because as damion says when you are on the brink of 3G coverage and it starts flapping phonecalls can be disconnected and data can be as well15:59
mgedminyep15:59
slonopotamusDamion2: oh. why you use 3g in your house at all? instead of wifi? :)15:59
Damion2slonopotamus: my phone switches up to that when I browse and request a lot of b/width15:59
mgedmin3G is UMTS/WCDMA, 3.5G is HSDPA15:59
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slonopotamusmgedmin: i see15:59
mgedminshould be quite faster15:59
mgedminwikipedia has the numbers somewhere16:00
mgedminI'm sure16:00
Damion2slonopotamus: when I'm connecting in to reboot my wifi router ;)16:00
slonopotamusDamion2: o_O16:01
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tybolltmuahaha,. colleague got DAS keyboard16:04
* tybollt impressed16:04
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tybolltwould be nice to connect a das keyboard to my mini =)16:06
tybolltehr, mu N900 =)16:06
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alteregoIt's weird how the video quality looks a little better (imho) when streamed and transcoded across the network to my laptop.16:17
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rangetybollt: It's just too expensive.Das Keyboard is a Key Tronic ergoforce (or was, last time I looked). My Ergoforce did cost me EUR 20,- - and it still has all the characters.16:24
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tybolltrange: this baby weighs in at like >1kg16:26
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tybolltrange: so... you sure about that?16:26
tybolltit is blatantly heavy16:26
tybolltand oh... it's shiny >:D16:26
rangeYeah, mine isn#16:26
tybolltIono why but man does this thing trigguer the magpie in me :D16:27
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range't that light either (but the "'" is too close to the <RET>) :)16:27
meceis ther a gui editor for maemo5 that higlights code?16:27
tybolltvim16:27
tybolltis tehre16:27
rangeAnd that python editor.16:27
tybolltso I guess you want gvim16:27
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lizardomece: pygtkeditor ?16:28
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alteregoHave apple made their announcement yet? I can't wait, whatever ity is I'm going to get it the day it comes out.16:35
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tybollthar to tell if you're being sarcastic or not there :)16:35
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* zash throws a nokia 3310 at alterego 16:36
alterego:D16:36
alteregoI hate Apple, so yes, I'm being sarcastic. But I would be interested to see what ideas they've stolen, and how big their next peice of polished shit is. ^.^16:37
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tybolltyes16:37
tybolltyes because we all want a shiny turd to put on the nightstand at the end of the day, don't we?16:37
zaheermthey stole multimultitasking :P16:37
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fluxI just wondered on another channel how well an unnamed, unpriced, non-refundable item would sell on the apple store prior the event :)16:38
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alteregoiHate Apple :)16:39
zashthe iThing!!!! BUY IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!16:39
zash11116:39
timeless_mbpStskeeps: geoping16:39
tybollt7msg zash Hi where can I send some monneh?+++++16:40
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zash:D16:40
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alteregoI'm know iFool!16:40
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: c216:41
timeless_mbpgah16:41
timeless_mbpi'll be down shortly16:41
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* w00t mumbles16:45
jebbaalterego: ya, i just put yours there.16:45
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w00tdo I really need an icon to use py2deb?16:45
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alteregojebba: oh, right. Cool, well. I've rewrote it, and I'm probably going to implement a better system in python this evening :P16:48
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alteregoI was thinking, if I attend the maemo summit this year. I'll stream it from an N900 to the internet for people to watch :)16:48
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alteregoOr maybe, I could write an app that lets everyone stream their experience to the net.16:53
alteregoThen people can choose which stream to watch if they're not there etc.16:54
alteregoCould record it all too.16:54
* alterego contemplates16:54
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jebbaalterego: sounds cool. Gimme a copy when it's ready : )16:56
pupniki suppose they could sue for iSpoof products16:56
hrwre16:57
pupnikhi hrw16:57
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Matthew-Damn16:57
Matthew-my phone heated up16:57
Matthew-and burned my leg16:57
Matthew-it was in my pocket only with headphones16:57
SpeedEvilthat's not good.16:57
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Matthew-no coins, no lighter, no metal apart from the 3.5 jack16:58
Matthew-what could it be?16:58
SpeedEvilwith the battery in the phone?16:58
SpeedEviland the n900?16:58
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alteregoEesh16:58
Matthew-SpeedEvil: yes16:58
alteregoI noticed mine ge4ts warm when I'm tethering my laptop sometimes.16:58
alteregoNot hot though, and it happened to my symbian phone too, so I guessed it was normal.16:59
zashN900 - now with built in microwave!16:59
alteregoTeeheehee16:59
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tybolltuhm16:59
tybolltexploding batteries - anyone??17:00
lopzhi ;=)17:00
pupnikfirst report i have seen of a n900 getting 'hot'.  skeptical.17:01
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SpeedEvilMatthew-: Are we talking 'ow - that's a bit too warm' or melted plastic and second degree burns?17:01
SpeedEvilI would call nokia care personally.17:02
SpeedEvilAnd certainly not use the battery again17:02
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mgedminmine gets noticeably warm after intensive use17:02
SpeedEvilIt is a real nokia bat?17:02
SpeedEvilyes - noticably warm I'll agree with.17:02
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SpeedEvilHot - unless you're doing something strange - no.17:02
SpeedEvil(it got very warm when under my pillow when trackerd kicked in17:03
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tybolltunder your pillow?17:04
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tybollthuh?17:04
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Milo-porn before sleep?17:05
Milo-or did you try to kill the alarm?17:06
SpeedEvilebooks17:06
SpeedEvilfbreader++17:06
SpeedEviland not porn ebooks either.17:06
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Damion2right, busybox crond works17:11
Damion2I'm not a fan of calendar systems.  crontab -e is my preferred interface17:11
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tybolltSpeedEvil: porn ebooks? I've got a cybook, it does ... 4 shares of grey.... good luck w/ pr0n on ebook :D17:14
tybolltshades17:14
SpeedEviltybollt: text17:15
tybollterotic novels17:15
tybolltdear jebuis that's boring :)17:15
SpeedEvilTastes vary. The internet has all sorts of things - even if you're into Snape/Dumbledore slash.17:15
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tybolltdumbledre pr0n... good grief you nearly made me hurl my lunch on the keyboard here...17:16
tybollt=)17:16
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pupnik'There was no need to stick the wand in that hard,' he (Dumbledore) said gruffly, clambering to his feet. 'It hurt.'17:24
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zashpupnik: http://www.bash.org/?11133817:26
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pupnikh3h17:31
tybollt:-)17:31
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pupnikFor the past three decades the city of Port au Prince has grown from approximately 300,000 to over 2.5 million inhabitants.17:32
pupnikamusingly, those with only shacks and tents had no rubble to be buried-under17:33
GeneralAntillesHaiti's been having a tough few years.17:34
pupnikhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/20/haiti-suffering-earthquake-punitive-relationship17:35
pupnikdamn wrong channel17:35
tybolltfree n900 to all haitians?17:35
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GeneralAntillesDamn, nice screenshots: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=497612#post49761217:35
pupnikgood modern style on the graphics17:36
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zashtybollt: didn't openstreetmap do somtin'17:36
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tybolltno idea17:37
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, ping?17:38
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AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, Pong17:38
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, so, I think with Quim's money talks the minimum we should try to shoot for is some table livery.17:39
RST38htybollt: Free hard drugs, firearms, and ammo to all haitians!17:39
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GeneralAntilles$3.99 for a COLOR SCHEME?! http://nokia-n900.com/paid-theme-n900-az-theme-mmmooo/17:40
SpeedEvilwell...17:41
GeneralAntillesEgads, they're selling it as a .deb?!17:41
SpeedEvilsupply and demand17:41
GeneralAntillesWe have arrived, I suppose.17:41
* GeneralAntilles takes some aspirin for the impending headache.17:41
rangeSelling it as a .deb looks like a real smart idea.17:42
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GeneralAntillesrange, yeah, since your customers have to dpkg -i it.17:42
RST38hGeneralAntilles vs general mobile phone community17:43
rangeOh, they even have a HowTo.17:43
rangehttp://shop.immmooo.com/affiliates/product/product_view.php?product_id=496#Description17:43
GeneralAntillesOK, we really need news to trim stories with more than 1000 vertical pixels of images.17:43
* RST38h suspects General has never heard of ringtones and screen backgrounds for $3.99 a pop17:43
rangeDownload the .deb on your pc and transfer it N900's root folder17:43
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I have, but not on Maemo.17:43
GeneralAntillesrange, egads.17:43
GeneralAntillesrange, they're missing a step.17:43
RST38hIt's a phone now :)17:43
rangeGeneralAntilles: *ssssht*17:44
GeneralAntillesSomebody please go beat these people up.17:44
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AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, Iḿ not sure who is going ot head up writing the Marketing Plan for the money17:45
RST38hSo, are Apple fanboys in the US rolling out their prayer mats just about now?17:45
tybolltwell17:45
tybollt$DEITY knows the free schemes out there are a bag of fail :)17:45
tybolltepic fail :)17:45
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zaheermRST38h, more like asking banks for extended overdrafts17:46
AndrewFBlacktybollt, please tell me know that $4 theme looks better then my Free one?17:46
RST38hzaheerm: THAT expensive?17:47
tybolltAndrewFBlack: which one is yours?17:47
AndrewFBlacktybollt, maemo.org17:47
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, clearly.17:47
zaheermRST38h, if you bought every apple product they released, you'd either have to be mega rich or in financial problems17:47
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, it's $4. :P17:47
AndrewFBlackI would think I could get $5 for mine if that one is $417:48
alteregoJust had my device get stuck in portrait, that was fun. Quiet easy to fix.17:48
AndrewFBlackInfact there is an open source Matrix one just like $4 one17:48
alterego~quite ..17:48
RST38hzaheerm: They make money on Appl estock! =)17:48
* RST38h ===> home17:48
tybolltAndrewFBlack: Fair enough I'll test it more extensively then :)17:49
glass_RST38h: :DD17:49
rangeAndrewFBlack: Yours is just to easy to install.17:49
AndrewFBlacktybollt, I´m just asking whats wrong with it I hear people in here everyday say all Fremantle themes are epic fails, if thats a case tell me why that is17:49
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* AndrewFBlack is starting to get tired of working on themes to hear people just bitch about them17:50
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I had some notes.17:50
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I need to reinstall it and look again.17:51
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, ok17:51
alteregoAny screenshots?17:51
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tybolltAndrewFBlack: yours is way WAY better than others I've tested.17:51
tybolltAndrewFBlack: so you have the moral highgroung here :)17:52
tybolltd17:52
AndrewFBlackalterego, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41363 screenshtos17:52
AndrewFBlackI have been fighting all the people on t.m.o from just releasing .debs or folders of themes17:53
AndrewFBlackBTW I got themes their own section now outside of Design to make them easier to find17:53
alteregoLook quite pleasant to me, though I'm not really a fan of orange ;)17:54
tybolltyeah I dislike the colours too but that's not my "FAIL" poiint17:54
alteregoQuite like the icons,17:54
tybolltI used I think it was hitech for a few days17:54
tybolltwhere you couldn't even distinguish some buttons17:54
tybolltgrrr17:54
hendryhttps://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing#Sections where is the hello world example? will user/web work?17:55
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, OK, first thought is that the desktop background interacts weirdly with the operator name.17:55
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, it looks like it's underlining that text.17:55
alteregoYeah, I think it's too close.17:55
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, not in love with the gradient on the menu buttons.17:56
AndrewFBlackLose grey border or just make it come down futher?17:56
jebbahendry: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Package_Building_HOWTO17:56
alteregoAre those to "Julie" contacts the same juli?17:56
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I'd bring the gradient down a few notches and darken it up a lot.17:56
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, make it come down more.17:56
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, the border is a nice effect.17:56
alterego~two17:56
infobotpicobot: three17:56
AndrewFBlackalterego, two My Wife and Wifeś Best Frend17:56
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I like how the border interacts with the status area bar.17:56
alteregoAndrewFBlack: so they're not the same person?17:57
tybollt~four17:57
infobotpicobot: five17:57
AndrewFBlackalterego, Not same person17:57
alterego:) Confusing :)17:57
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, ah, right, I remember my big one.17:57
GeneralAntillesInvert the text entry flieds.17:58
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GeneralAntillesand I'd say drop the orange border.17:58
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, by menu buttons you mean ones on desktop for shortcuts17:58
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, the buttons you see when you tap the application name.17:58
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2240466/Maemo/Screenshots/maemo-org-5.png17:59
GeneralAntillesThe Dialing Pad/Select contact widgets.17:59
GeneralAntillesDarken them up a bit and reduce the severity of the gradient.17:59
GeneralAntillesAlso, kill the orange text shadow.17:59
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GeneralAntillesIt just looks like JPEG compression artifacting17:59
GeneralAntillesOr maybe SGX corruption. :P17:59
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I'm inclined to think a white theme would look really nice.18:00
GeneralAntillesMore inline with the website styling.18:00
AndrewFBlackbeen thinking of making a while one but I think I might run into some problems like we have on Diablo with dark ones18:01
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GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, Ian was working on a light one.18:02
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GeneralAntillesBiggest problem was with the chat UI18:02
GeneralAntillesBut I think timeless figured that one out.18:02
AndrewFBlackText shadow is hard because it uses secondary color and if I make it black anywhere it uses secondary text color you will have black text on dark grey background18:03
GeneralAntillesBut, anyway, right now I don't thing there's enough contrast between the menubar and the content background18:03
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, really? Nice. . . .18:03
GeneralAntillesI'd recommend making the menu gradient darker.18:03
AndrewFBlackok18:04
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GAN900AndrewFBlack, try sticking a maemo.org logo (perhaps in a white/gray?) in the bottom right of pano desktop #1?18:05
pupniktrademark infringement!18:07
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AndrewFBlackpupnik, we can use maemo.org logo just can´t use Maemo18:10
tybolltthat's one of the things18:11
tybollthow nokia is maemo.org18:11
tybolltreally18:11
AndrewFBlacktybollt, not really18:12
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GeneralAntillestybollt, er?18:12
AndrewFBlackGAN900, You know if Texrat is working on purposal for a Marketing budget?18:12
GeneralAntillespupnik, lol.18:12
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, not a clue.18:12
pupnikanyway thick skin.  only comments like GA's are worthy of listening to18:13
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I'm just pondering evil ways to squander it.18:13
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AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, lol See maybe you can go to SELF this year18:13
pupnikoffer bounties for games.  i'll tell them what needs to be done18:13
GeneralAntillesHehe18:13
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I'm flying business!18:14
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lcuksand and salt-water testing using caribbean beaches involving multiples testers for the difference salt concentrations on each island18:14
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lcukGeneralAntilles, ^18:14
w00tmmmm18:15
w00ti'm up for that18:15
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I'm actually kinda not that tired of beaches and hot weather.18:15
GeneralAntilleslcuk, cold winter. . . .18:15
lcukwell that works as well, have to check how they handle going from hot to cold climates18:15
lcukrepeatedly18:15
* w00t stares out the window at soggy, overcast hull18:16
* w00t dreams of lying on a beach.18:17
GeneralAntillesw00t, I grew up 4 blocks from the beach. So bored with beaches.18:17
w00tGeneralAntilles: I grew up in australia, moved to one of the wetter parts of england 4 years ago18:17
w00tI regret it far too often18:18
GeneralAntillesHehe18:18
w00tit's a bit of "grass is always greener" though18:18
w00tI could never stand the summers there, they were always too hot18:18
w00tI deliberately went home in winter there a few years ago, and still went to the beach, swimming, etc18:18
w00tthe locals looked at me like I was insane18:19
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CorsacTuneWiki is nice but won't play oggs :(18:26
Corsaceven with extra codecs18:26
javispedroheh.18:26
javispedroi just received a nokia.com email originally intended for someone else.18:27
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, PR1.2 cancelled, N920 shipping with Maemo 6 (i.e., PR1.2) in 2 weeks?18:27
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* w00t grins painfully18:28
javispedroNo. much worse. They're congratulating me for buying the N85.18:28
CorsacGeneralAntilles: free of charge for every #maemo user18:28
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, lol.18:28
GeneralAntillesCorsac, haaaaaaaaaaa. . . .18:28
* javispedro notes the intended recipient phone number is right there, in plain text.18:29
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zaheermjavispedro, ouch18:29
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, clearly you should call and congratulate them.18:29
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VDVsxjavispedro, you should tell them that the N85 is broken and ask from a replacement ;)18:30
javispedro"Yes, I'm placing this international phone call just to tell you that Nokia messed up and sent me your N85 "welcome" email..."18:31
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lardmanw00t: so you moved to Bath then?18:31
javispedroThis is the mail address I gave them for the Ovi store account, so they're the responsible ones >:)18:31
lardmanseems to us to be the wettest place in England ;)18:32
javispedroVDVsx: yes, I can't connect it to PC Suite! :( ;)18:32
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w00tlardman: hull18:33
lardmanoh ok, you might beat us then18:33
w00tI can count on two hands the number of sunny days I've seen in these past 4 years18:33
lardmanlol18:33
lardmanthat's the effect of the smog too though ;)18:34
w00thaha18:34
w00tnooo18:34
w00tclear skies up here18:34
w00tit's certainly not beautiful though ;)18:34
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lardmanWell despite the weather I'd perfer to be in Oz right now18:37
zaheermsame here18:37
w00t*grin*18:37
w00tas I said, always greener18:37
zaheermcan watch the tennis18:37
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* w00t is looking forward to moving to .no eventually18:38
pupniki wonder who here even has used 'PC Suite'18:38
lardmanw00t: what nationality are you?18:38
lardmanpupnik: yeah18:38
lardmanwhat's up?18:38
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pupnikfailsauce.  constant.18:39
w00tlardman: dual british/australian, however I'm engaged to a norwegian.. I like to call myself 'nationality confused'18:39
lardmanw00t: ok18:39
pupnikcongrats w00t18:39
lardmanindeed :)18:39
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pupnikengagement is win, of sorts18:40
w00tta18:40
w00tbeen a long while coming, and still a long while to go :P18:40
lardmanwell it's actually not win as you need to buy a ring18:40
w00tlardman: tell me about it18:40
lardmanI got married last year18:40
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w00tthat really screwed up my 2009 mid year finances18:41
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lardmanI know that feeling :)18:41
pupnikgirl i wanted to marry got .. instead of a ring... a cross plated with a new electrochemical procedure invented by her pHd husband18:41
* w00t blinks18:42
pupnikthat is style18:42
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lardmannot sure my wife would have really appreciated anything manufactured by her phd husband-to-be other than a ring ;)18:43
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luke-jrring is supposed to be life insurance :)18:43
luke-jrif you die, she can sell it18:44
lardmanhere you are darling, it's really great thermal image analysis software, you can wear in a memory stick around your neck..... fail!18:44
w00thahaha18:44
w00tepic win more like18:44
zaheermlardman, if it's got real diamonds on it, then a win18:44
lardmanluke-jr: money is better kept liquid though, as wives inherit that too18:45
* w00t has written software for a specific person once, as a birthday present18:45
w00tback in the day..18:45
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luke-jrlardman: well, that's what the ring is for ;18:46
luke-jr:p18:46
Damion2is the 2g/3g toggle app in extra-devel ?  Do I need to add jebba's repository ?18:46
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lardmanno, that's a token of your committment, otherwise why loose the >30% on the conversion back to cash?18:46
w00tcommitment, hmph18:46
lardmanI guess it's easily portable though :)18:47
w00twe should all be more sensible and just keep the extra cash18:47
lardmangirls like sparkly things18:47
w00t(i'm so lucky there aren't many women on irc)18:47
Damion2ahha found it 3g2g-mode-selection-applet18:47
luke-jrwhy not get a replica then?18:47
Damion2I can manually browse to it18:47
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luke-jrw00t: the only ring I have ever bought was about $10 or so18:47
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lardmanI've only bought 2 and they were a bit more expensive18:48
w00t^18:48
luke-jras lardman said, better to keep money liquid these days-- and then you're left with a mere symbol :p18:49
luke-jrno reason to spend lots on a symbol18:49
alteregoHah, just crashged my device decoding an rtp stream ^.^18:50
alteregoWell, cause it to reboo ^.^18:50
pupnikeconomics discussion to ##economics18:50
alterego(note: ffmpeg kills tablet) ^.^18:50
lardmanpupnik: true :)18:51
hendryis there a way to debug why my shortcut is failing to run?18:51
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Damion2nice and                         21.01.2010 18:35    860618:53
Damion2oops18:53
Damion23g2g-mode-selection-applet works perfectly, lovely :)18:53
* Damion2 removes an item from his todo list18:53
SpeedEvilDamion2: in the event that you're connected does it postpone change?18:53
Damion2nope18:54
Damion2it changes and keeps you connected18:54
Damion2although it does pop up a notice that cellular connection not available in a small yellow bar at the top18:54
SpeedEvildoesn't ip change/18:54
Damion2nope18:54
Damion2well not with O218:54
Damion2UK18:54
SpeedEvilneat18:54
Damion2other carriers might suck18:54
SpeedEviltmobile-uk here18:54
SpeedEvilwas cheapest18:54
SpeedEvil25 quid for 6 months net and calls18:55
Damion2I know for example that "3" dont' permit the same SIM to connect to two separate APNs at the same time18:55
Damion2I think voda were same18:55
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lcukhendry, pastebin the .desktop file and we can have a look, no promises tho18:55
Damion2not a common use case, but I could ssh via wap.o2.co.uk and mobile.o2.co.uk one via tethering, once from the s2putty on the e90 and I got two IPs via same 3g connection18:56
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Damion2it's amazing how often I need strings and strace18:58
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* Damion2 will assume/hope they're in deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free18:58
SpeedEvilstrace is18:58
WizzupNo screen in the repos? :(18:59
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SpeedEvilstrings isn't18:59
SpeedEvilscreen is18:59
SpeedEvilInstall these packages without verification [y/N]? y18:59
SpeedEvilGet:1 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free screen 4.0.3-0.3osso4+0m5 [595kB]18:59
Wizzupapt-cache can't find it afaik18:59
Wizzuphm....18:59
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Matthew-can we install .cab files ?19:00
SpeedEvilcab files are typically a windows thing19:00
woglindematthew no only extract19:00
SpeedEvilI think they are really zips - so you can unzip them19:00
woglindewith cabextract19:00
SpeedEvilbut - unless you build qemu...19:01
woglindeif someone has ported it19:01
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Damion2somebody must have done strings19:01
Matthew-yeah im trying to install citrix19:01
Matthew-on my cell19:01
woglindespeedevil wahaha not vmware again on the tablets19:01
luke-jrMatthew-: fail19:01
SpeedEvilwoglinde: no - vmware of course won't work.19:02
SpeedEvilwoglinde: qemu should though.19:02
SpeedEvilnot especially fast of course.19:02
woglindespeedevil the vmware embedded hypervisor runs on the n800 fine19:02
WizzupSpeedEvil: Package screen is not available, but is referred to by another package.19:02
WizzupAm I missing a repos?19:02
woglindewince and maemo at the same time19:02
SpeedEvilseeabove line19:02
SpeedEvilWizzup:19:02
woglindeor was it win9519:02
woglindecannt remember19:02
SpeedEvilwoglinde: I was meaning to run x86 content19:03
SpeedEvilThough running wince stuff might be interesting too19:03
Damion2mode-selection-applet.c is 99% gui/gtk efforts, I'm still trying to see the one line of C which does the switch19:03
woglindespeedevil didnt you see the video?19:03
Matthew-luke-jr: why?19:03
Damion2it includes dbus, so it's probably possible via a cmdline, which means I could have a cmd icon to press rather than having to open the top widget19:03
SpeedEvilwoglinde: no.19:03
woglindehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ19:04
woglindethere you go19:04
SpeedEvilwoglinde: oh - I missed that video19:04
woglindeits no fke19:04
woglindeargs fake19:04
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luke-jrMatthew-: N900 doesn't run Windows crap19:06
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luke-jror rather, Windows crap doesn't work on anything but a single platform19:07
WizzupSpeedEvil: so the SDK reposses19:07
SpeedEvilyes19:07
* Wizzup isn't sure if he wants to add that19:07
leodN900 doesn't run Windows, crap!19:07
GeneralAntilleswazd!19:08
woglindehm I am sure ti has a ce port for omap355019:08
wazdhello all19:08
woglindejo wazd19:08
wazdwaiting for Jobsie to rock the world :)19:08
GeneralAntilleswazd, those app downloader mockups really turned out amazing!19:08
wazdGeneralAntilles: glad to hear that :)19:09
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* lardman heads home19:10
woglindebye lardmn19:10
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LuciusMarehello19:11
LuciusMarei stream a video over http with vlc, and try to catch it at my tablet with mplayer - sound is fine, but there is no video, the whole output is there: http://pastebin.com/f7b3a988019:13
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woglinde????19:14
LuciusMare"???"?19:15
woglindeOgg stream 1 is of an unknown type19:15
LuciusMare.19:15
LuciusMareI also dont know.19:16
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redLuciusMare: try to mux as acf and not ogg19:21
LuciusMareacf?19:21
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LuciusMarehaha, this is funny19:21
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redor just use Knots19:21
LuciusMareat my tablet, nothing but sound, and here ctching the stream from localhots, nothing but video19:21
redif ur not familiar with that stuff19:21
LuciusMare*catching19:22
LuciusMare*localhost19:22
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pupnikplease nokia put the n810 speakers in the next phone.  they were awesome.19:23
derfAre you serious? I could barely hear them at max volume. I can't even turn my N900 up to max volume; it would hurt.19:23
luke-jrlol19:24
woglindeas we figured yesterday out19:24
woglindeto control volume the real way19:25
woglindeyou have to use alsamixer and alsamixer -c019:25
pupnikderf: don't confuse the volume limited n810 drivers with the capability of the speakers.  they can fill a room with sound19:25
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pupnikstunning... amazing...19:25
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derfAll I know is I can't hear the navigation instructions in a car with the thing sitting on the dashboard in front of me.19:26
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derfAt least not while the car is operating.19:26
pupnikok that sucks19:26
woglindederf you are using my navit package?19:26
derfNo, this was with maemo mapper.19:27
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pupniktry mplayer or something... loud as.. f**k19:27
pupniki can lay n810 on a table and listen to lectures from other rooms19:28
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LuciusMareooooppss,,  hhaadd  aannyybbooddyy  hahadd  tthhee  pprroobblleemm  wwiitthh  ccrraazzyy  kkeeyybbooaarrdd  rreeppeeaattiinngg  aallll  ggiivveenn  cchhaarraacctteerrss  mmoorree  ttiimmees19:28
woglindemaemomapper has navigation function?19:28
derfSure it does.19:28
woglindehu?19:29
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woglindenever saw it19:29
LuciusMarewweellll,,ii  ddoo19:29
pupnikderf, i recall that problem.  it is some brain damaged 'lets not play anything too loud to get sued' problem19:29
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woglindeor functional19:29
derfYou can go in to "Download Route..." or whatever it was, and enter addresses.19:29
LuciusMareoohh,,yyoouu  wweerree  nnoott  ttaallkkiingng  ttoo  mmee19:29
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woglindedownload route?19:30
woglindewtf?19:30
derfAnd it pulls turn-by-turn instructions with waypoints at each turn, and reads them with text-to-speech when you approach one.19:30
LynoureLuciusMare: poor you.19:30
woglindewhats when you are offline?19:30
LuciusMareiinnddeeeedd19:30
derfNo, you have to download it while you're online.19:30
pupnikLuciusMare: your comments here have been pretty stupid19:30
woglindederf whaha this suckz19:30
derfIt's not ideal.19:31
woglindenavit can do this all complete offline19:31
derfBut it works okay.19:31
derfYes, but I could do this two+ years ago.19:31
LuciusMareiitt  mmiigghhtt  bebe  ccaaususeedd  bby y tthhee  ffaacctt  tthhaatt  ii  aamm s stutuppiidd   .:pP19:31
derfWhereas I've only just now heard of navit.19:31
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LuciusMareookkaayy,,  tthhiiss  iiss  aannnnooyyiinngg,,  nnooboboddyy  hahadd  memett  tthhiiss  ebbeeffoorree19:32
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woglindederf the package right now is not optimal19:33
woglindebut I am working on it19:33
pupnikLuciusMare: what device are you using?19:33
LuciusMarerorovveerr19:33
pupnikThere is a problem related to repeated keys but i can't find the source, sorry.19:34
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LuciusMarehhhheehhhh..19:34
LuciusMaretthhaannkkss  ffoorr  aat t lleeaasstt  ttrriinngg19:35
LuciusMareleettss  hohoppee  rreebboooott  ffixixees s itit19:35
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pupnikplease do.  gollum mode is annoying19:36
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andre__garr. so what was again the command to find out from which repository an installed package came from?19:41
* andre__ getting lost with dpkg and apt-get19:41
Matthew-;-)19:42
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luke-jrandre__: not possible afaik19:45
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andre__gnarf19:46
VDVsxandre__, apt-cache show package_name (look at filename field)19:46
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VDVsxthere's a easier way, but can't remember atm19:47
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woglindeapt-cache showpkg package19:48
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andre__thanks. now wondering where I should write this down for the next time :)19:48
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VDVsxwoglinde, that's better :)19:49
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GeneralAntillesandre__, infobot?19:50
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woglinde~infobot snack19:52
* infobot snack? yes yeaaas yeaaaaaaaaaaas pleaaase :P19:52
SpeedEvilF****** thumbnailerd.19:52
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javispedroso, where are the failsafes for that "prolonged 600Mhz equals fry" story?19:54
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javispedrocause I just noticed that what I initially though were the failsafes is the sgx driver blocking (and idling the cpu)19:55
Khertan__[18:46] ==  #maemo Please register with services and use the IDENTIFY command (/msg nickserv help) to speak in this channel19:55
Khertan__this suck !19:55
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ShadikkaWe had our share of the spambots recently19:55
Khertan[18:46] ==  #maemo Please register with services and use the IDENTIFY command (/msg nickserv help) to speak in this channel19:55
wirelessdreamerhas anyone had their audio cutting out on phone calls with their n900?19:55
javispedrobut when no sgx is involved, the thing happily stays at 600mhz.19:55
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Khertani was talking to /dev/null19:55
Khertansomeone know a way to record screen on n90019:56
Khertan?19:56
GeneralAntillesSorry, Khertan.19:56
GeneralAntillesWill take it off as soon as the spambots are done for. :\19:56
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, prod Igor?19:57
zaheermgst-launch ximagesrc ! <pick_an_encoder> ! <pick_a_muxer> ! filesink location=<filename>19:57
SpeedEvilWhere is the tracker database?19:57
javispedroSpeedEvil: $HOME/.cache19:58
X-FadeOk, Packages interface now also supports diablo: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/diablo_extras-devel_free_armel/19:58
X-Fadediablo promotion is now done through the packages interface too.19:58
javispedroor $XDG_CACHE_DIR :)19:58
javispedroX-Fade: ow, nice!19:58
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X-FadeDirect promotion, no testing queue though ;)19:58
javispedroX-Fade: can we start promoting things right now? :)19:58
X-FadeYes19:58
X-FadeSo I can see if it breaks somewhere ;)19:59
SpeedEvilhmm - how did I miss that...19:59
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javispedroX-Fade: pre-dependencies missing! >:)20:00
X-Fadejavispedro: yes, yes. :)20:00
X-Fadejavispedro: just push those first ;)20:01
X-Fadejavispedro: At least it does more checking than the old promoter.20:01
javispedrooh.20:02
javispedromaemo-installer-utils...20:02
javispedroi think that was provided by hildon-app-mgr iirc20:02
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VDVsxthe next wow is about to be announced , lol20:02
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X-FadeShould handle provides like it does in fremantle.20:02
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X-Fadejavispedro: Provides:20:03
X-Fademaemo-installer-utils, maemo-select-menu-location20:03
javispedroi think it needs a bit more time, some packages are missing20:03
javispedroi.e. drnoksnes20:04
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X-FadeHmm weird, import should have finished a long time ago.20:04
KhertanHi again (try 6)20:04
Khertan~ping20:05
infobot~pong20:05
javispedrohi khertan20:05
Khertanoh god ! now every one can read me20:05
Khertanvery annoying that identify is required for speaking but it s prevent from changing nick20:06
Pavlovis it possible to get maemo.org to serve .install files with the right mimetype?20:06
Pavlovwho would i talk to about that?;)20:06
Khertanso does there is a way to make a screencast on n900 that record pygame display output too ?20:07
Khertan(load doesn t record pygame display)20:07
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javispedrosorry X-Fade, I completely forgot it was removed!20:07
X-Fadejavispedro: I don't see your app in extras-devel ;)20:07
Khertanother question does there is a pygane expert in the room ? i need some advice to speed up my game20:07
X-Fadejavispedro: duh, yeah :)20:08
lcukVDVsx, it doesnt stop!  which20:08
X-Fadejavispedro: Was grepping the Packages file already ;)20:08
GeneralAntillesPavlov, you want X-Fade. ;)20:08
VDVsxlcuk, apple chocolate tablet :p20:09
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X-FadePavlov: Which file, where?20:09
lcukKhertan, same advice as always, minimal streamlined, use the library functions where possible if you can offload some direct python processing to a core c lib, do so20:09
StskeepsX-Fade: btw, any special reason for update1 vs update2 in autobuilder?20:09
X-FadeStskeeps: Update2 was the latest that worked.20:09
StskeepsX-Fade: well, autobuilder is at update1 at the moment20:10
X-FadeStskeeps: No?20:10
GeneralAntillesCan you imagine what a triumph an Apple tablet might've been if they had combined the best parts of the Newton with a real OS X?20:10
wazdiPad, haha :)20:10
Khertanlcuk : it s what i do ... but the rendering is very slow (60fps to 7fps)20:10
Khertanah apple as announced something ?20:11
* lcuk cant wait for flipbook style n900 apps20:11
X-FadeStskeeps: Ehm, yes ;)20:11
javispedrohttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/diablo_extras-devel_free_armel/openttd-data/0.7.4-1maemo3/20:11
Khertanthe iphoneos 4 with 2 apps max to do multitasks ?20:11
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Khertan:)20:11
StskeepsX-Fade: reason i was wondering is cos it doesn't have hildon-theme-layout-5 and theme makers are getting kinda hurt by that :P20:11
GeneralAntillesKhertan, ah, interesting point.20:11
Stskeeps(update2 has)20:12
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GeneralAntillesKhertan, no multitasking is vaguely justifiable on a freaking phone, but on a tablet it's downright insane.20:12
VDVsxIpad is a A4 size Iphone, lol20:12
X-FadeStskeeps: The lets compare update2 and 1.20:12
KhertanGeneralAntilles : i was jokking20:12
X-Fade*then20:12
javispedroVDVsx: are they announcing it now?20:12
Stskeepshttp://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/5.0update1_vs_5.0update2_content_comparison.html20:12
VDVsxjavispedro,20:12
VDVsxyes20:12
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VDVsxjavispedro, http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/live-from-the-apple-tablet-latest-creation-event/?sort=newest&refresh=3020:12
wazdlooks boring20:12
VDVsxyeah20:12
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wazdchangeable wallpapers!20:13
Stskeepsheh, a4 iphone?20:13
Stskeepsoh dear20:13
wazdnow thats a revolution!20:13
javispedrolol20:13
VDVsxsteve said that apple is the biggest mobile company in the world :D20:13
Khertanrrrrhhhha a 8bit display is slower than 16 bits with pygame on n90020:13
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javispedroas usual Jobs has said "runs PC applications" is a con for netbooks, and he'll get away with it.20:13
RST38hwazd: moooo?20:13
wazdRST38h: heya :)20:13
zashVDVsx: for apples definition of "mobile" ofc20:13
KhertanVDVsx : steve is ill ... do not rely on what he said20:14
RST38hWhat? The scheduled coming of Apple Jesus has started?20:14
javispedroyes20:14
X-FadeIpad.. duh ;)20:14
StskeepsRST38h: in A4 form20:14
Stskeeps:P20:14
RST38hOMG20:14
RST38hStskeeps: OMG20:14
* RST38h awed20:14
wazdit's not even widescreen)20:14
javispedroiPad was the name the idiots were thinking jobs would use for a "dockable USB pad" or something like that20:14
Stskeepsalso20:14
RST38h"Drivers of vehicles weighing more than 10,000 pounds have been banned from sending text messages while driving in the US"20:14
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javispedrooh the irony.20:15
zashHP suing for trademark too similar to "iPAQ" in 3.. 2.. 1..20:15
RST38hHas HP got rights for "hPaq" already?20:16
javispedroso.20:16
wazdiPod, iPad, iPud, iPid, iPed20:16
VDVsxcan't see any advantage comparing to a laptop only disadvantages20:16
wazdiPed, lolz20:16
cehtehiTurd20:16
javispedroApple itself uses the fact that they have been getting free promotion as promotion.20:16
RST38hWell one thing I can immediately see is that bezel is too thick20:16
cehtehiPet20:16
* VDVsx wants a iPet20:16
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, indeed.20:16
VDVsxlol20:16
Khertan... ... ... hum pygame doesn t seems optimized at all when running my game ... but works well for solarwolf ... i didn t understand where my game is so slow20:17
javispedroKhertan: PR1.1?20:17
X-Fade"10:16AM We're basically just watching Steve casually browse. This is odd."20:17
wazdhttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0128-rm-eng.jpg20:17
X-Fadelol ;)20:17
VDVsxKhertan, are you in fullscreen mode ?20:17
wazdHAHA20:17
Khertanjavispedro : yep20:17
Stskeepsis it just me or does that just look like moblin?20:17
KhertanVDVsx : yep fullscreen20:17
javispedrothe launcher is ridiculous.20:17
Khertansolarwolf run well ... so mine should too20:17
javispedrothe could have increased the number of items or the icon size.20:18
VDVsxKhertan, so you should have full power20:18
Khertanso mine need to be optimized20:18
javispedrobut I guess redefining the constant was too effort.20:18
javispedros/too/too much20:18
X-FadeLooks fairly low res.20:18
Khertanthe constant ?20:18
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VDVsxcan it multitask ? :p20:18
javispedroKhertan: not talking about your topic, sorry :P20:18
wazdkeyboard is super lame20:18
RST38hSts: Moblin looks like it20:19
javispedroyes.20:19
PavlovX-Fade: for example, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/raw/Maemo5/conversations-inbox-widget/?get_installfile20:19
RST38hSts: or like iPhone rather20:19
wazdI'm really surprised that apple really made it20:19
PavlovX-Fade: it just comes down as text/html20:19
Khertanjavispedro hehe not a problem20:19
Pavlovinstead of application/x-install-instructions20:19
Khertangodwin point : http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2740/4308988357_56e6a45744_o.jpg20:20
Khertanhaha20:20
X-FadePavlov: ****, that is a regression.20:20
Khertanouch no keyboard20:20
Khertanhaha20:20
X-FadePavlov: need to check what is up with that.20:20
VDVsxwazd, well they can sell anything :)20:20
Khertann900 still better :)20:20
* RST38h learned the lesson the hard way today: N900 really does not look all that much, all the useful, especially in comparison with other devices. UNTIL YOU TRY TO PART WITH IT.20:20
StskeepsRST38h: heh20:20
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RST38hThen you suddenly find all those little things that you have done seamlessly with N900 and which now require Effort20:21
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LynoureRST38h: What did you try to switch to?20:21
RST38hLynoure: E71, E7020:22
SpeedEvilIs anyone aware of a strace-alike that can do ioctls?20:22
RST38hstrace does not do ioctls?20:22
SpeedEvilWell - of course it does20:22
LynoureAfter years with Palm OS, I'm having annoying droolies with Palm Pixi20:22
LynoureBut luckily it's not available in Europe.20:22
wazdhttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/apple-creation-0159-rm-eng.jpg20:23
KhertanLynoure : for a dev it s too crappy20:23
* RST38h tried the Pre in the US. Felt kinda fake.20:23
hardakerLynoure: After years with Palm OS I'm finally happy with my N900 :-)20:23
SpeedEvilI mean that can print the results/calls of ioctls - at least in - say 'print 20 bytes after ioctl pointer'20:23
wazditunes look like a first attenpt in photoshop20:23
KhertanLynoure : can t dev onboard20:23
Khertan:)20:23
wazdattempt*20:23
javispedroSpeedEvil: last time I wished that I had to patch strace myself.20:23
Khertanlike i was doing wth my palm tx20:23
Lynourehardaker: I'm still missing a whole lot of apps I need... coding one of them, hoping others to rain from the heavens =)20:23
RST38hwazd: But....WHY STILL ONE BUTTON?20:23
SpeedEviljavispedro: meh.20:23
PavlovX-Fade: ok, cool20:23
SpeedEviljavispedro: thanks.20:23
VDVsxcofth cofth,no flash :D20:23
RST38hThe thing is huge, why only keep one button?20:23
PavlovX-Fade: will make my life easier ;)20:23
wazdRST38h: I guess Ive hates hardware buttons :)20:24
slonopotamus~ping20:24
infobot~pong20:24
RST38hwazd: Or He is afraid someone will hack it by pressing buttons20:24
LynoureBut, now coding done for today, and off to movies.20:24
javispedroSpeedEvil: still I'm pretty sure I've come across an android dev blog post that published his patch, but google's in a bad mood today...20:24
Khertana virtual keyboard this really sucks20:24
hardakerLynoure: the only thing I truly miss from palm days was datebk20:24
hardakermy last phone, the 680, which is still sitting here next to me hasn't been turned on in a month and I don't even have the urge too20:25
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javispedroVDVsx: Jobs speaks: "Having Flash" is a disadvantage of netbooks.20:25
villagerSpeedEvil: each ioctl is different... I suspect strace can already do that, but only for ioctls it know20:25
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SpeedEvilvillager: I know it is.20:25
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villagerSpeedEvil: so someone has to make strace know those ioctls...20:26
SpeedEvilvillager: however - devolving to the generic - 'print 20 bytes after pointer in hex' wouldn't be impossible.20:26
KhertanDoes there is some tips and trick for using pygame on n900, like using HWSURFACE only or something like that ?20:26
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javispedroKhertan: don't use HWSURFACE at all.20:26
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luke-jriPad is such a joke :P20:26
Khertanok ... did use it20:26
* VDVsx predicts people suffering backache due to iPad usage20:27
javispedrotbh, it does nothing in rgb surfaces, only in the screen surface, at it won't do anything at all in non-paletted modes iirc.20:27
ShadikkaSeriously, it's just a big iPhone.20:27
Stskeepsluke-jr: i am kinda disappointed in it20:27
ShadikkaWith a probability of 199%, running iPhone OS, making it neigh-useless for anything serious.20:27
Stskeepsat least they could have done something revolutionary20:27
Khertanvdvsx : but obviously ... will be surely a best seller20:27
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joppuThey just could have put a real OS in to it20:27
Khertanjoppu ? ple putting a real os ?20:27
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javispedroand you can even CHOOSE your own background!20:28
joppuI mean, they just took the iPhone OS and rearranged the UI layout20:29
joppujavispedro: That's what I call customization20:29
Corsacan iphone os in a laptop size, I would have expected the opposite20:29
javispedro"rearranged" lightly.20:29
RST38hjavispedro: miracle! MIRACLE!20:29
wazdjavispedro: that's the revolution20:29
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luke-jrfrankly, iPad is even *less* capable than netbooks20:29
wazdjavispedro: first time ever!20:29
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javispedrosince they could have AT LEAST made the launcher icons _bigger_.20:29
javispedrobut no.20:29
joppuluke-jr: but it runs _smoother_ nad that's the only thing that matters20:30
luke-jrLOL 1 GHz XD20:30
Corsacand it's apple20:30
luke-jrjoppu: obviously that depends on software20:30
luke-jrCorsac: that's a minus20:30
Stskeeps"10 hours battery life20:30
Corsacwhich is really the only thing that matters eventually20:30
javispedrospecs? where!20:30
wazdIPS display20:30
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Corsacno 3g20:31
luke-jrjavispedro: http://live.gdgt.com/2010/01/27/live-apple-come-see-our-latest-creation-tablet-event-coverage/20:31
wazd1k+ price, anyone? :)20:31
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joppuluke-jr: iPhone only runs so smoothly because no multitasking20:31
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redjoppu: wrong.20:32
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javispedro"Apple A4 chip"?20:32
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joppured: How so?20:32
|Ryeah, wtf A4 chip20:32
rediPhone runs smoother cause 1) Smaller resolution 2) Better optimized animations20:32
wazdpixel doubling!20:32
VDVsxa compass really ? for what lol20:32
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wazdwow!20:33
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Stskeeps'10:32AM "We can also pixel double and run the apps full screen."20:33
Stskeeps....20:33
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wazdStskeeps: revolution!20:33
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villagerapple fanboys will still buy it, and become living examples of what makes humanity so horribly messed up20:33
luke-jrLOL20:33
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|Rso the resolution is 640x960 ?20:33
redMultitasking has little to do, since iPhone animation is fluent even while playing a mp3 and having browser tabs open in background (you can multitask on iPhone, but only on preselected software).20:33
redNow N900 scrolling and mp3 playing = mp3 skips every now and then20:34
javispedrored: that's the difference between real multitasking and walled garden multitasking.20:34
zaheermthat facebook app looks pointless, the browser facebook is nicer on it20:34
javispedroa 66Mhz Clie could also play Mp3 "on the background"20:34
redagree on that20:34
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redmight be the resolution alone, might be the fact theres more processes running on background of the N900 nobody can know for certain20:35
javispedro(truth is that they had a special mp3 decoder and thus that's the reason it was the "only" app allowed to multitask)20:35
javispedros/special/hardware20:35
redgood for them, bad for us :)20:35
joppuN900 has the DSP?20:36
redim not trying to bash our lovely child here, just not trying to be fanboy either20:36
GeneralAntilles|R, for 10"?!20:36
X-FadePavlov: Better now?20:36
Stskeepsjoppu: it has dsp yes20:36
|RGeneralAntilles: well no clue, but if they can pixel double (ie: 2x2 instead of 1x1) and you double the iPhone res :)20:36
villagerI imagined the mp3 skipping on N900 was because of the slow eMMC (and swapping)?20:36
javispedrobut it's not used for audio because someone decided the most common use case for listening to audio would be with the main CPU idle.20:36
javispedro(the dsp)20:37
luke-jrApple is scared to announce RAM :p20:37
PavlovX-Fade: checking20:37
|Rhaha yeah, RAM and resolution20:37
VDVsx"all iPhones apps will run in the iPad"20:37
PavlovX-Fade: looks like it20:37
joppuAnd the scaling will look horrible20:37
Stskeepsalso, no 3g ;p20:37
woglindeVDVsx allother were nitemare20:37
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javispedroman, even palmos handled the resolution switch better.20:38
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redjoppu: it doesn't really matter if it looks horrible. it means that when it comes out theres ton of software it can run, while software that the screensize is optimum are coming.20:38
lardmanI wonder if our skipping is caused by cpufreq?20:38
redand expect really easy porting due the compatability too20:38
joppu480x320 on 1024x768 (?) urgh...20:39
wazdX-Fade: E: Couldn't find package hildon-theme-layout-520:39
wazdX-Fade: wtf does that mean? :)20:39
joppuwazd: Yeah, it's broken currently20:39
RST38hluke: iPad has no "RAM". "RAM" is for geeks20:39
X-Fadewazd: Exactly as it says.20:39
X-Fadewazd: The SDK we run doesn't have that package.20:40
wazdX-Fade: ah20:40
wazdX-Fade: ok then :)20:40
joppuwazd: They downgraded the autobuilder or something20:40
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javispedrohm.. how can I make my N900 media player skip?20:40
X-Fadewazd: Will check tomorrow if we can go to update2, which has this package for you.20:40
wazdX-Fade: great news, thx a lot :)20:40
glass_the apple foleo20:41
javispedrooh, the foleo was better.20:41
javispedroit had xterm.20:41
lardmanhave Apple released their gadget then?20:41
joppujavispedro: open a lot of apps :)20:41
RST38hglass: iFoleo, of course20:42
X-FadeStskeeps: update2 looks quite safe, only the gtk one worries me a bit.20:42
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javispedro4*3 apps and still no skipping..20:42
lcukyou gotta try harder than that!20:43
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javispedrothis includes dosbox and drnok which I know they don't sleep when not active.20:43
glass_whats the price20:43
Gadgetoid_mbpiPad <320:43
javispedroand dosbox consumes insame amounts of ram+swap20:43
* javispedro looks to see if he got the headphones connected to the desktop instead of n900...20:43
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lardmanhmm, that iThingie looks bloody big20:45
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lardmanI'm thinking iDefinitelyWouldn'tWantOneCosIt'sTooLarge20:45
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villagerit skipped for me when I walked home from the office, without anything running other than the media player, the skipping might have occurred when I got out of range of the wifi and it switched to gsm, or perhaps some powersave mode20:45
dvoidhail the ipedo20:45
dvoidor not20:45
X-FadeIt's a netbook without keyboard ;)20:45
luke-jrlardman: I'm thinking it's just an Apple branded TouchBook20:45
* lcuk has a 7inch maemo tablet (well, 2 3.5inchers but working collaboratively)20:45
villagers/gsm/gprs/20:46
infobotvillager meant: it skipped for me when I walked home from the office, without anything running other than the media player, the skipping might have occurred when I got out of range of the wifi and it switched to gprs, or perhaps some powersave mode20:46
hardakervillager: I had it skip once when it switched the app from portrat to profile.20:46
lardmanyeah, not very exciting20:46
X-Fadelcuk: you need 4 of those for that ;)20:46
* tybollt slaps Gadgetoid_mbp hoping he will snap out of it ;)20:46
javispedrohildon-desktop is now hung. 23rd app, and media player didn't skip.20:46
hardakerI wondered if your walking jiggled the sensors20:46
hardakerie, it wasn't the multitasking but the app itself20:46
lcukX-Fade, i need 5 really to test properly20:46
Gadgetoid_mbptybollt: not ruddy likely, I'm waiting for the price and where to buy one20:46
tybollt:D20:46
lcuk4 in a square 2*2 and then one controller20:46
X-Fadelcuk: Sorry, can't help you. I only have 3.20:46
lcukbut it scales nicely, so good to see undo working20:46
lcukive got 2.99 myself20:47
tybolltGadgetoid_mbp: just coz ole man Jobs sez so or do you actually like the idea of a tablet like that?20:47
lardmandare I open TMO, how much time will it suck away....?20:47
villagerhardaker: which sensors? shake2control wasn't in use20:47
lcukill just have to do like power rangers and combine them for higher power when together20:47
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lcuki keep holding a pair like drumsticks20:48
lcukand wanting the data on the third20:48
villagerhardaker: since I wasn't running anything other than the media player, nothing should be checking any sensors20:48
lcuknow it will be able to :D20:48
Gadgetoid_mbptybollt: yup20:48
hardakerdoes it switch between portrait and landscape when you rotate it?20:48
villagerhardaker: I don't think so20:49
villagerwith a locked screen even more unlikely20:49
hardakerhmm...  you know, I think I was listening to an audio book in a different app.20:50
hardakerit was what switched, not media player.20:50
* javispedro gets a watchdog reboot20:50
villagernope, it won't rotate... I've never enabled rotation anywhere anyway, I never wanted it20:50
hardaker(since I tried it and it doesn't rotate)20:50
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javispedroat around 25 windows (24 apps)20:50
villagermaybe except in the phone app I suppose20:50
Gadgetoid_mbptybollt: in fact, I want 2!20:51
|Rstill no ram / res. / price... and no front cam, wait wha?20:51
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RST38h"iPad has no kickstand!" -- Gizmodo20:51
Stskeepsheh20:51
Stskeeps500$ accesory20:52
luke-jrso any speculation on if A4 is Intel or ARM?20:52
RST38hdoes it support mms? =)20:52
javispedroluke-jr: ARM20:52
joppuThey can unveil a whole new line of "docks" now :D20:52
RST38hARM20:52
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luke-jrRST38h: it doesn't support cell phone at all20:52
javispedroluke-jr: it runs iphone arms20:52
javispedros/arms/apps20:52
RST38hluke: really? just like n800? =)20:52
tybolltARM of course20:52
luke-jrjavispedro: are iPhone apps natively compiled? O.o20:52
javispedroluke-jr: yep20:53
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tybolltwhat other cpu can you buy and mod to your liking?20:53
VDVsxStskeeps, probably more ;)20:53
lcukok screw all this appleness,  can maemo run on any multitouch large format tablets?20:53
luke-jrtybollt: PowerPC, SPARC, and MIPS?20:53
RST38hthey bought a cpu company20:53
luke-jrlcuk: TouchBook?20:53
tybolltluke-jr: hush you =)20:53
joppulcuk: Harmattan...?20:53
tybolltRST38h: orly? didnt know20:53
RST38hlcuk: I just noticed.20:53
* lardman emerges from TMO having learned nothing much new20:53
derfThat sounds normal.20:54
lardmanyep20:54
javispedrolardman: well I learned something today; that there seems to be no actual failsafes for when you lock the n900 at 600Mhz.20:54
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lardmanoh, have you cooked yours?20:54
lcukluke-jr, can maemo run on it?20:55
lcukjoppu, that wasnt the question20:55
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javispedrono, but it will happily go at 600Mhz for hours20:55
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RST38hlcuk: You look like DrWho played by David Tennant20:55
tybolltjavispedro: ? "lock the n900 at 600Mhz." the hell does that mean?20:55
* RST38h promptly hides20:55
jopputybollt: the clock speed20:55
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tybolltja?20:55
tybolltcan you alter the clock speed?20:55
RST38hyes20:56
joppuyeah20:56
nomikehi20:56
* lcuk raises eyebrows @ RST38h 20:56
* lcuk mourns david tennant20:56
tybolltoh dear, how's that? I looked for "press F1 to enter bios" but really, the thing doesn't even have a POST ;)20:56
* belsatsar mourns Juergen Moellemann20:56
javispedro"iBooks" -- now including ripped off bookshelf art!20:57
RST38hcooool20:57
VDVsxlol20:57
nomikei'm using a nokia 770 with OS2008HE. Does the built in Mail Client support IMAP subfolders?20:57
luke-jrlcuk: of course not20:58
luke-jrlcuk: Maemo is proprietary :P20:58
VDVsxwith iBooks number of apps in apple store have to go down to 60k-70k :D ohhhh20:58
GeneralAntillesSeriously, iBooks? . . .20:59
* GeneralAntilles pictures lots of laptops filling the iPad.20:59
javispedroonly apple could do _yet again_ the book reader application with bookshelf paradigm again and get away with it20:59
lcuki thought the ipad was a sanitary product20:59
VDVsxehhehe21:00
Myrttilcuk: it does need iWings21:00
RST38hit is21:00
lcukwell top results in google video indicate as such21:00
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javispedro"iWork for the iPad" (aka Pocket Office)21:01
RST38hwithout keyboard?21:01
javispedrooh, they use ePub file format!21:01
javispedrowow21:01
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javispedrohell freezing over and all that.21:02
VDVsxonly landscape, take that :p21:02
RST38hjavis: no iPub?21:02
javispedroePub! Even FBReader is capable of opening it.21:02
RST38hunless it is drmed of course21:02
joppuI guess after 10 years of failing the tablet PCs will become mainstream just because Steve Jobs held one of them in his hand21:03
javispedrothere's no actual ePub DRM standard iirc21:03
javispedroNo 3G. Less space than a Netbook. Lame.21:04
ml-mobilemmm, more closed hardware platforms from Apple21:04
* RST38h mentally goes over a list of objects he would like Steve Jobs to hold in his hand21:04
luke-jrml-mobile: you say that as if there's an open platform in this market?21:04
joppuAnd oh, can you actually read ebooks with a LCD display? Kindles, etc. have eInk ones21:04
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RST38hGizmodo went into iPad hysteria already21:05
tybolltengadget too21:05
* VDVsx sends a N900 to steve :D21:05
belsatsartools of tyranny21:05
javispedrotmo too.21:05
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RST38hjavispedro: looks like it does not scale iPhone apps all that much21:05
ml-mobileluke-jr: the N900 is the only one going in the right direction, and miles more open than anything else21:06
belsatsarml-mobile: ++21:06
RST38hthey look like a little square in the middle of a black screen21:06
tybollttmo?21:06
lcukquestion, how come holding device like this didnt accidentally run apps http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/01/27/article-1246551-080C4654000005DC-611_468x597.jpg21:06
luke-jrml-mobile: dunno, tmzt seems to have got much Qualcomm supported21:06
javispedroRST38h: Jobs actually mentioned "pixel doubling"21:06
ml-mobilewhat is tmzt?21:06
javispedrojobs or some of his minions21:06
VDVsxRST38h, they need to rebuild it seems21:06
luke-jrml-mobile: tmzt is a person21:06
joppujavispedro: yeah :D21:06
luke-jrml-mobile: and unlike TI, Qualcomm's got nice dual-core 1.5 GHz Snapdragons.... <.<21:06
* timeless_mbp cries21:07
* timeless_mbp messed up21:07
luke-jrnot to mention all the phones/handhelds with over 256 MB RAM21:07
lcuktimeless, happens to us all21:07
tybollttimeless_mbp: ?21:07
RST38hVDVsx: ah!21:07
VDVsxRST38h, "We rewrote all of our apps for this display. the iPhone SDK supports development for this now... and we're releasing it today."21:07
timeless_mbptybollt: i'm maintaining enus and engb21:07
ml-mobilethat's just newer hardware, has nothing to do with openness21:07
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VDVsxdunno what that means21:07
timeless_mbpi made a set of changes for enus, managed them as a changeset21:07
timeless_mbpapplied them to engb21:07
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luke-jrml-mobile: tmzt's work has to do with openness :)21:08
timeless_mbpbut forgot to refresh the changeset to include the engb files21:08
javispedroX-Fade: btw, did you see http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/diablo_extras-devel_free_armel/openttd-data/0.7.4-1maemo3/ ?21:08
timeless_mbpthen i pushed my changesets and built them21:08
RST38hInteresting how nobody has mentioned the most interesting question so far21:08
dprohi21:08
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timeless_mbpit happens to me often21:08
javispedroRST38h: THE PRICE?21:08
StskeepsRST38h: 'does it run android'?21:08
RST38hWith iPad out, every Chinese manufacturer will try to catchup. And Nokia too.21:08
lcuktimeless, thats like developers forgetting to update changelogs and stuff21:08
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ml-mobileluke-jr: great, but only the N900 is available via retail :)21:08
timeless_mbproughly, yes21:08
RST38hThis means 1) Android on really huge screens and 2) N9?0 that looks like a slate again ;21:08
VDVsxthere's android tablets already21:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, hey, maybe it means Maemo will get some progress back into its past. ;)21:09
javispedro"Will our N900 be able to upgrade to MaemoPad"21:09
RST38hVDVsx: Yes, but Apple sets the standard. Now they will alll strive to look like iPad21:09
lcuktimeless, and some are more regular at that, how long does it take to rebuild?21:09
javispedro(hm.. MaemoPad+...)21:09
VDVsxRST38h, true21:09
timeless_mbplcuk: <5mins21:09
timeless_mbpit's more that it's such a stupid thing21:09
lcuknot a problem then, just frustration no douby21:09
lcukyeah lol21:09
luke-jrml-mobile: I can wait.21:09
RST38hGeneral: Well, judging from how Nokia always plaued catchup before, I almost do not doubt21:09
dprolooks like I need to roll my own kernel for the n900 .. any pitfalls I should be aware of to avoid bricking the thing ?21:09
RST38hThe MaemoPad author is up for some nice royalties for selling rights to the name back to Nokia ;)21:10
Stskeepsdpro: don't overclock it21:10
Stskeeps:P21:10
lcuki look over my git commits and realise i have a habit of commiting new changes and logging them, but forgetting to actually add the new files to git21:10
lcuki kick myself everytime21:10
timeless_mbpdpro: why do you need your own kernel?21:10
RST38hlcuk: Same for everybody21:10
javispedroRST38h: the original maemopad was made by nokia iirc?21:10
luke-jrlcuk: how do you manage that? O.o21:10
RST38hlcuk: You ain't any special in this sense21:10
javispedromaemopad+ is the third party app.21:10
luke-jrRST38h: he isn't?21:11
RST38hjavispedro: Really? So they have got rights to the name l)21:11
dprotimelell_mbp: I need realtime scheduling and a higher timer resolution21:11
lcukno RST38h i was singing with timeless's cat wail about something similar21:11
luke-jrwith git you need to add even changed files, so I don't get how you can forget to add the ones you just made...21:11
RST38hurgh21:11
lcukluke-jr, no you dont21:11
lcukits very easy to leave files out21:11
lcukand you dont need to explicitly mention every changed file21:12
luke-jrlcuk: unless you use commit -a, you do21:12
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VDVsxOMG a context keyboard 0_0 numeric keyboard will show up in numeric fields, lol21:12
* lcuk looks on his wall21:12
lcuk"git commit -a -m "~~~~~"21:12
lcukyup21:12
lcuklooks like i do21:12
luke-jrlcuk: that's the problem :P21:12
* luke-jr finds git's index system very convenient21:12
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javispedroso this is apple's target21:13
javispedroipad+iwork21:13
tank-man... No 3G, less buttons than a Kindle, Lame21:13
lcuki want some iscream21:13
lcukive heard enough im goin playing with liqbase for a bit21:13
javispedroiBase21:13
javispedro"iLiq" sounds better.21:13
dprowhat gcc flags are you guys using ? I used sth. along the lines of '-fPIC', '-mtune=cortex-a8', '-march=armv7-a', '-ftree-vectorize', '-mfpu=neon', '-mfloat-abi=softfp', '-ffast-math', '-fomit-frame-pointer', '-O3', '-fun21:13
dproroll-loops' but that didn't make a difference21:13
lcukimnotforsale21:13
zashifrisbee21:13
wiretappedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs MadTV on the iPad21:14
zashwiretapped: that better be a rickroll21:14
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javispedrodpro: tune, arch are already on the specs so they have no effect. -tree-vectorize is already implicit with -o3 so it has no effect. -neon only does floats and uses softfp for doubles.21:14
wiretappedno it is an actual MadTV skit about the iPad21:14
VDVsxthere's a model with 3g21:14
javispedrodpro: so basically you're only adding "-o3".21:15
Shrik3tank-man: umm, they just announced 3G =)21:15
Stskeepsah, some models with 3g21:15
* wiretapped was at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/apple-tablet-san-francisco-launch21:15
Shrik3$30/mo for unlimited21:15
javispedrodpro: which is not recommended, specially on a platform where memory bandwidth is limited.21:15
belsatsarhow is tor on n90021:15
tank-manhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs madtv iPad (2007 skit)21:16
dprojavispedro: so anything I can do to speed up floating point operations further with a gcc switch ?21:16
RST38hiSatan21:16
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timeless_mbpbelsatsar: i wouldn't recommend hosting a tor exit point :)21:16
javispedrodpro: benchmark "no flags" (aka vfp), softfp and neon. use floats instead of doubles.21:16
belsatsari'm wondering if i should be doing anythign else21:16
* RST38h cannot believe Neon cannot do doubles. Really?21:16
timeless_mbp"don't worry, you'll be followed anyway"21:16
ph1lsomebody asked me about what files get accessed by which program, on which parition... who was that again?21:17
dprojavispedro: floats instead of doubles are not an option I'm afraid, too much work21:17
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timeless_mbpph1l: lsof is the answer..21:17
tybollt zap: branningan21:17
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javispedrodpro: then benchmark vfp vs softfp I guess...21:18
ph1ltimeless_mbp: sadly it's not... how you wanna monitor the boot process with lsof?21:18
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VDVsx"micro SIMs" new tech ?21:18
timeless_mbpph1l: you just instrument the boot scripts...21:18
javisped