IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-01-26

lantiziat-tan, well I can't access that brainstorm00:00
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henkie-any hints to get my maps working again? yesterday it still worked (downloaded sattelite maps of my neighbourhood) Today it refuses entirely, doesnt even try to make a network connection to the server00:00
henkie-i have flashbacks to my freerunner all over again  :)00:00
lantiziat-tan, hmm script ediding... scripts that could revert if theres updates00:01
lantiziathink I'll stick with what I've got00:02
alteregoWill the Qt based maemo6 UI stuff continue to be called hildon?00:02
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Stskeepsi sure hope no00:02
javispedro"DUI"? :)00:03
alteregoMe too ...00:03
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alteregoAs I'm trying to get this naming strategy down ;)00:03
t-tanalterego: probably LuxQt00:04
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woglinde~seen x-fade00:07
javispedroor just "Maemo 6 UI Framework".00:07
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo (3h 34m 17s), last said: 'TomaszD:'.00:07
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javispedroyay openttd in extras00:11
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javispedrooh, wow.00:17
javispedrowhere did the diablo package promotion interface go?00:18
uhsfi also fear when i receive my n900 it will be very few improvement over my freerunner00:18
Robot101heh heh heh00:18
Robot101no its better :)00:18
* lcuk giggles00:19
uhsfjust that ppl are really complaining about rough edges, no gps, etc00:19
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javispedro"no gps?"00:19
javispedrono commercial gps maps.00:19
javispedro(something that may change if sygic is any good)00:20
henkie-no one else with troubles with maps? or repositories updating?00:21
dmj726_n900_we like to complain about all the little things that stop it from being perfect.00:21
ShadowJKovi maps has better maps than google maps and any "commercial gps maps" I've seen... :-)00:21
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threshit isnt true00:21
ShadowJKOf course, they're not that useful when there's no car-safe navigation method :/00:21
threshat least not for places where i need GPS on00:21
dmj726_n900_n900 maps is bad00:21
javispedroShadowJK: ovi maps has even better map rendering that most commercial apps, but the app is mostly useless.00:21
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javispedroI feel like if the would have shipped the desktop browser plugin with a shim wrapper, which may actually be what they did :D00:22
dmj726_n900_not as bad as navigating in unfamiliar territory without a map, but not very good00:22
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Damion2I don't like the awfl sluggishness and slow load time of nokia's maps00:23
Damion2the swishness of googlemaps I miss00:23
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javispedrogooglemaps is as useless, at least the one they made for palmos.00:23
ShadowJKHere the maps are very detailed, the most detailed I've seen. Also, the address calculation seems very accurate except for one minor glitch: it clearly shows me on the left side of the road, yet it says I'm on RoadX 366. I'm on 365. Houses on the left side are /always/ an odd number, never an even number. So, if it simply picked 365 or 367 it'd get it right (as 367 would be valid too, it's the same distance from start of road (3670 meters) and the neigh00:24
dmj726_n900_i also miss the voice and auto rerouting of garmin00:24
javispedroactually, it's even more useless since it doesn't allow for offline maps.00:24
ShadowJKbours house that shares driveway :-)00:24
henkie-i miss the abillity to see the actual map!00:24
ShadowJKSo if they only added the "odd numbers are on the left, even numbers are on the right" logic to the code, ovi maps would show my address correctly to within 20 meters :-)00:24
henkie-(i'll stop complaining now)00:24
lantiziatimeless / timeless_mbp: I don't suppose you got a hold of that UK image? :D00:25
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timeless_mbpi did some research00:25
timeless_mbpdaniel promised to comment00:25
ShadowJKI've never seen anything "swish" about google maps.. Rotating and panning the map in ovi maps seems pretty smooth now with the upgrade though :)00:25
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timeless_mbproughly: the people who created the image were idiots00:25
timeless_mbpit's created under a process for "variants"00:26
timeless_mbpvariants are stupid00:26
SpeedEvilShadowJK: but that's not always true00:26
timeless_mbpthe variant you have is the ... Foo variant00:26
timeless_mbp(i forget which Foo it is, but it's your Carrier)00:26
SpeedEvilShadowJK: address numbers are _horribly_ variable globally.00:26
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, yes00:26
lantiziatimeless, the UK variant?!00:26
timeless_mbpvariants are not actually good00:26
timeless_mbplantizia: it isn't the UK variant00:26
timeless_mbpit's the UK-Operator-1 variant00:26
* javispedro wonders if the insane amount of people installing dosbox from -testing will eventually convert into an insane amount of positive votes in QA page.00:26
Damion2lantizia: I just checked: dd if=/dev/mmcblk0p1 of=blah count=1 bs=1024 && vim blah00:27
RainCTI'm trying to upload a package to extras-devel but it gets rejected saying that my GPG key is unknown.00:27
timeless_mbpwhichever that stupid operator is00:27
* timeless_mbp can't remember and doesn't really want to00:27
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: how's OSM where  you are?00:27
Damion2lantizia: I think the label is Nokia N900 FAT3200:27
timeless_mbpbecause it's created for a specific operator00:27
lantiziaso I'm not meant to use even the original 41-11 version of it?00:27
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Damion2lantizia: you can install mtools and use mlabel00:27
timeless_mbplantizia: if i were you i would *never* touch an operator variant00:27
javispedroRainCT: you can use the extras assistant and retry tomorrow, it may be a temporary issue.00:27
lantiziaDamion2, I can name the volume as mkfs.vfat time00:28
timeless_mbpyou're free to do whatever you like00:28
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, but somehow they figured out the algorithm already, except for that one detail. (House number = distance from start of road in meters divided by ten, modified so that even numbers on right and odd numbers on left, incremented if more than one house would occupy same address)00:28
timeless_mbpif i was given a device w/ an operator variant, the first thing i'd do is reflash w/ the normal non variant version00:28
lantiziatimeless_mbp, look ok - the download site just says "UK Variant"... not "UK Orange Firmware"00:28
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timeless_mbpand then i'd do over the air upgrades00:28
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, OSM is completely blank except for a coarse outline of a lake00:28
timeless_mbplantizia: did i mention we're idiots?00:28
Damion2lantizia: that throws your data away00:28
lantiziaand it's not locked or provided by any 1 network00:28
* SpeedEvil loves blank areas.00:29
lantiziaDamion2, it doesn't matter - it's a part of repartitioning anyway00:29
timeless_mbpi found the image because someone asked about it00:29
Damion2fine :)  was only trying to help00:29
timeless_mbpthe image itself just has a number00:29
lantiziaDamion2, thanks :)00:29
timeless_mbpyou have to go read some secret web server content to figure out what it actually means00:29
lantiziatimeless, 203 is the number00:29
timeless_mbplantizia: i'm well aware of it00:29
henkie-i do miss the ethernet-over-usb00:30
javispedroyou're already doing operator variants? god save us.00:30
timeless_mbpthe point is: it is not the 'uk variant'00:30
RainCTjavispedro: Thanks, that worked. By the way, is there any convention on revision numbers? I used -<debian_version>maemo<my_version> and "maemo" as target (in debian/changelog, that is)00:30
henkie-wifi reception is not very good at my desk00:30
timeless_mbpit's the 'uk variant for a specific operator'00:30
lantiziatimeless, right so go for the global or maybe europe "variant" ?00:30
javispedroRainCT: actually, there is. google for "maemo packaging policy" iirc.00:30
timeless_mbpi'd grab global00:30
timeless_mbpyou don't want variants <period>00:30
timeless_mbpthey're stupid00:30
timeless_mbpjavispedro: someone thought it was a value add00:30
ShadowJKHey do any variants come with Nokia Energy Profiler? :D00:31
* timeless_mbp looks for some sand to stick head into00:31
prontoany easy way to sync google calendar with the calender on the n900 yet?00:31
timeless_mbpShadowJK: since that was supposed to be dropped because of lawyers00:31
timeless_mbpthe answer better be 'no'00:31
timeless_mbppronto: you can check to see if MfE happens to work some day00:31
ShadowJKAre they the same lawyers that put the s60 version of it up for download on a web page? :)00:31
timeless_mbpfrom memory you have a random chance of it working00:32
henkie-pronto, with for opensync   :)00:32
henkie-will be ready somewhere 2018 i think  :)00:32
javispedro... and in 2029 it will stop mangling your contacts.00:32
RainCTjavispedro: ok, thanks00:32
timeless_mbpthe variant release process is apparently murky00:34
timeless_mbpsomeone supposedly owns it00:34
timeless_mbpand insists on doing their own testing00:34
timeless_mbpand perhaps the customer owner of the variant might want to do their own testing00:34
timeless_mbpthat's the story as i got it00:35
timeless_mbpi'm sorry. i should have just marked the bug as WONTFIX DONTWASTYOURTIME the first time around00:35
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timeless_mbpi deeply regret enabling that mess00:35
timeless_mbpi should have stood by my original statement (made ages ago) that the uk stuff was junk00:35
timeless_mbpbut yes, we did locate the images00:35
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lantiziatimeless_mbp, if I'm flashing both the eMMC (don't ask why - long story) and then after the firmware (done it before with 42-11 and it works fine)... do I need a 51-1 eMMC to compliment the 51-1 firmware?00:37
ShadowJKhm... So I guess NEP status has changed from “The "Energy profiler" GUI application will be binary only and probably available from Garage (after couple of final fixes).” in November to notachance? :-)00:37
timeless_mbpyou never *need* anything\00:37
timeless_mbpif you're going to reflash00:37
lantiziatimeless_mbp,  e.g. maybe the /home/opt needs some 51-1 specific packages00:37
timeless_mbpyou might as well grab the latest00:37
lantiziaoh I have00:37
lantiziabut theres only 1 eMMC00:37
timeless_mbpthe eMMC basically has a couple of icons00:37
lantiziaso /opt (or rather /home/opt) is empty at flash time?00:38
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timeless_mbpi sure hope so00:39
timeless_mbpit'd be pretty bad mojo if it wasn't00:39
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javispedrorm -r'ing /opt/* at rootfs flash time is a bug report.00:40
timeless_mbpmostly the eMMC image is a partitioning plan and some magic pixie dust for the fat32 volume00:40
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* timeless_mbp tries to parse that00:40
ShadowJKdoing it or not doing it?00:41
mikhaslooks klingon to me00:41
ShadowJKI think it's about some people thinking that flashing should wipe /opt/...00:41
javispedrois povbot awake?00:41
mikhasrm r'ing, baktag!00:41
povbot`Bug 7432: /opt and /home/user  not cleared after firmware reflash00:41
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lantiziatimeless, this is my home brewed repartitioning guide :)
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ShadowJKWell, on S60 the equivalent of not wiping /home is actually branded as a feature :)00:44
SpeedEviljavispedro: I can see the point. But making it optional at flash time would be better.00:44
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javispedroShadowJK: I have to agree, if we're talking about /home/user .00:44
javispedrothough /home/opt...00:44
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ShadowJKyeah.. opt is another story00:45
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lantiziatimeless, obviously I'll tweak it so it doesn't mention that bad old UK variant firmware and have the nice new global one :)00:45
lantiziatimeless, I can't help but wonder what else could be "budged" onto the other partition without bricking the device... got alot symlinked already00:46
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timeless_mbplantizia: so00:47
timeless_mbpyou're grabbing the vanilla emmc00:47
timeless_mbpthat's /slightly/ different00:47
timeless_mbpthe emmc images should be customized w/ different map sets00:47
timeless_mbpe.g. one has in theory maps for the usa00:48
lantiziaOh I've backed up my cities folder00:48
* timeless_mbp nods00:48
timeless_mbpjust noting that there's a difference between what it means to have an emmc w/ something and a rootfs w/ something00:48
SpeedEvilIs there a reason to back it up - isn't it just redownloadable?00:48
JaffaHmm, I seem to have really FUBARed hildon-desktop attempting to fix bug 832800:48
povbot`Bug all isn't showing All applications (especially the former main screen apps)00:48
lantiziaI only do the eMMC too so that I know /home won't be that big to copy to /home200:48
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: if you stuck data onto the eMMC00:48
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timeless_mbplike your home movies00:49
lantiziatimeless, also so that there nothing in /home/opt from a previous install00:49
timeless_mbpthen bakcing it up is a good idea00:49
SpeedEvilOr for cases if you have no net connectivity - maps00:49
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timeless_mbplantizia: fwiw, 2gb won't really work very well for maps00:49
lantiziatimeless, well I can always make it bigger - what do you suggest?00:49
timeless_mbpi have >>2gb of maps on my n81 8gb00:49
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lantiziatimeless, I just want the bulk of the space to be for /home not MyDocs00:50
* timeless_mbp nods00:50
lantiziarandom figure? :)00:50
timeless_mbpjust make sure people understand that you're limiting how much map data they'll be able to store00:50
timeless_mbpin addition to videos and photos00:51
timeless_mbpalso if you're reflashing00:51
timeless_mbpyou don't want 42-11, you want 51-1 :)00:51
lantiziasure... for me it'll be a case of videos/photos go on a physcial MicroSDHC and share that MicroSDHC via NFS00:51
timeless_mbpgrabbing 42-11 is just stupid, it's asking for 2 over the air updates00:51
lantiziayeah I've corrected that bit already00:51
lantiziatimeless, my cities folder isn't nearly 2gb... and since I got a UK Nokia N900 - it will be UK maps... all of them I'm guessing for the UK00:52
lantiziatimeless, so it should only grow if I go abroad?00:52
timeless_mbpor if you browse other parts of the world00:53
timeless_mbpjust because you're physically in the UK doesn't mean you can't look elsewhere00:53
timeless_mbpthat'd be kinda stupid :)00:53
lantiziaI don't use maps at all :) I don't drive00:53
timeless_mbpi use maps, i have no license00:53
lantiziaonly slightly handy if lost lol00:53
mikhas*in a manager voice* "who would need such a stupid feature?"00:53
javispedroand the preloaded maps only include roads, not satellite imagery.00:54
* ShadowJK used the S60 Nokia Maps while walking to find a specific shop in city once00:54
lantiziaah I see00:54
ShadowJKI felt slightly less stupid walking around staring at a cellphoen than walking around staring at a tomtom00:54
* timeless_mbp used s60 maps in a whole bunch of random cities around europe00:54
timeless_mbpit mostly works00:54
timeless_mbpor worked00:54
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ShadowJKI used Wayfinder on N810 out in europe.. mostly because predownloading the maps was just a few taps from the program itself00:55
lardmanwoglinde: not sure if the optimisation worked correctly mind you00:55
lantiziatimeless, is there a way of getting your IP address... without hitting the terminal or installing an extra app?00:55
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lantiziawon't show internal IP tho will it? like wifi00:56
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ifreqis there a tracker software for n900?00:56
lantiziait's nuts that About Product will give you the MAC... but no where will show network status information00:56
lbtlantizia: what you need is a filling in your tooth that picks up wifi instead of FM00:56
ifreqsomethign simple to create tunes when bored00:56
javispedrothere used to be a ip address widget00:57
ifreqthere is still00:57
lantiziajavispedro, oh there still is00:57
lbtjavispedro: homeip00:57
ifreqbut question was "without"00:57
timeless_mbpjavispedro: he asked 'without installing'00:57
lantiziabut I'm wondering if theres anything built in00:57
timeless_mbpwhich is pretty pointless00:57
timeless_mbpit's stupid00:57
javispedroand diablo had a network status app, but that's gone.00:57
ifreqcan anyone port this to n900 pls+ :)
* lbt thinks that if you have xterm and ifconfig then you're good00:58
lantiziatimeless, why!?  if I want to do any serious work I want to do it over SSH - and I gotta install gainroot *JUST* so I can access ifconfig on the terminal to KNOW the IP before I SSH in... it's extra steps00:58
lbtanyone who understands/needs an IP can get it there00:58
LuserN800lantizia, no need for gainroot00:58
* ShadowJK sets his n900 to static ip on his wlan00:58
lantiziayou can't ifconfig as unpriviledged user00:58
lantiziaah! not in path ?00:59
timeless_mbpsure you can00:59
ShadowJKYou can, you just can't change stuff00:59
lbthave you tried?00:59
LuserN800sure, as well as you can see /proc00:59
lantiziaok will try that :)00:59
Damion2there is a desktop widget to display your ip00:59
lantiziaDamion2, I know :P00:59
ifreqDamion2: pls read backlog00:59
timeless_mbpDamion2: reading is important00:59
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mikhasreading is overrated00:59
Damion2hey I'm on my phone00:59
lbtyeah Damion2... they don't want *sensible* answers :)00:59
Damion2and watching glee00:59
LuserN800or simply add /sbin to $PATH for the end of your life00:59
* lantizia adds... GLEEEEE01:00
* lantizia HI DAMION2'S PHONE01:00
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javispedrolantizia: so, the answer to your question is no.01:00
lantiziajavispedro, thought so :)01:00
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henkie-how determining a location over a dataconnection works?01:00
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henkie-it seems to use my wifi connection01:00
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henkie-i thought it needed a 3g connection fot that01:01
lbthenkie-: *huge* topic01:01
Damion2timeless_mbp: reading is not important.  it's too close to slough01:01
lbtsummary - it uses tcp/ip to accelerate the GPS01:01
henkie-lbt, got a link?  :)01:01 ?   :D01:01
SpeedEvilwikipedia agps01:01
lbtthere are bug reports on it - AGPS01:02
henkie-ah ok, so it does use gps01:02
lbtfor sure01:02
henkie-i alway thought i needed an account for apgs01:02
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henkie-ah cool01:03
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henkie-could my old nokia could also do it over 3g but it didnt have a GPS onboard01:03
henkie-atleast it claimed it could do it :)01:03
lbtvery coarsely   - yes01:03
lantiziatimeless, so from that script - can you think of anything more worth moving in to /home ?01:04
henkie-is there an option to disconnect from wifi when it is not used?01:05
SpeedEvilhenkie-: yes01:05
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timeless_mbplantizia: sorry, i'm tired01:05
timeless_mbpand not really the right person01:05
Damion2I have a script I start in /etc/ip-ip.d/01:05
henkie-smartphones seem to need a small nuclear reactor these days  :)01:06
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henkie-and i would not put that in my pants01:06
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Kamuiwell.  im giving up on trying to get good battery life01:07
Kamuicant have your cake and eat it too01:07
Damion2henkie-: I check if the keyboard is shut, if ssh is running and if not then in about 60 seconds it downs the network01:07
Kamuijust wait for mugen to release the double capac batterty01:07
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timeless_mbpre 743201:09
henkie-Damion2, daemon running is not a problem? just no active connection?01:09
timeless_mbpthe problem is, there are two things that can go in /opt01:09
timeless_mbp.deb managed 'optified stuff'01:09
lardmandoes anyone know how the cells in a QTableWidget are sized?01:09
timeless_mbpuser manually installed non .deb applications01:09
timeless_mbparguably the former should die if the rootfs dies01:10
timeless_mbpbut the latter shouldn't01:10
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javispedrotimeless: you leave users in a pretty funny if they reflash after filling /opt.01:10
javispedro*funny state.01:10
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* timeless_mbp nods01:11
javispedrooh, was actually removed from fremantle.01:12
javispedroit was a nice way to set the idle timeout.01:12
Damion2henkie-: the script exits when it downs the interface, it's started again on if up01:12
luke-jrbootmenu's USB networking mode-- what's the root pass? :P01:13
SpeedEvilElvish for friend.01:14
SpeedEvilOh no - that's slackware01:14
Damion2henkie-: I want to add more logic like looks for bytes TX01:14
Damion2maybe pick some other apps to hold the net open or look for scrfeen inactivity01:14
* Damion2 is a slaskware man :)01:15
henkie-Damion2, network stays up here, but that's because i am currently charging01:15
Damion2yeah but you also aint running my script01:15
henkie-haha, true01:16
wiretappedFSF to protest apple's launch:
* SpeedEvil too.01:16
henkie-i misread01:16
Damion2henkie-: I like the idea of not idling off if charging...01:16
Damion2I'll paste01:17
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SpeedEvil I also want to turn off wifi-ps if fully charged01:17
SpeedEvilor if turning it on will not impact charge time01:18
SpeedEvilor charged of course01:18
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dprohrmmm ... is is normal that stuff I write in vim via ssh on the n900 disappears from my ~/My* dir after a reboot ?01:21
timeless_mbpdpro: were you using USB?01:21
timeless_mbpbecause MyDocs is a file system01:21
dprotimeless_mbp: wifi01:21
timeless_mbpwhich gets unmounted when you use mass storage01:22
timeless_mbpif you write stuff to the underlying file system01:22
timeless_mbpyou won't see it when MyDocs is mounted01:22
dproah ... never got that to work properly anyway .. I just sshfs ... will stop trying that then :)01:22
* dpro *hopes* that ATM it's "charging only"01:22
dprotimeless_mbp: it's just weird, I should turn this all to ext2 I don't give a **** if a win/mac can mount it01:23
Damion2I find it much more use to usbnet, ssh in and use rsync if I want stuff off the device01:25
dproDamion2: which wouldn't have any problems with ext* as the fs01:25
Damion2so yeah I agree.  although 2GB is fine for me01:25
dproDamion2: but all the tv shows :P01:26
Damion2I have a vast unused block of data I can store stuff like .wad files in and symlink them back01:26
Damion2it's a pain that the mp4's aren't compatible with the ps301:27
dproI'm new to this and it took me about 10 minutes today to realize that vfat doesn't know anything about permissions and ownership so I had to cp my first binaries to /root to actually run them ... wasted 10 minutes01:28
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javispedrofwiw, $HOME is ext3.01:28
ShadowJK/opt/maemo/bin is probably a nice place for binaries too01:29
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ShadowJKor /home/user01:29
ShadowJK/root uses precious rootfs space :P01:29
Damion2MyDocs is mounted noeec01:29
dprothat was just for testing "hello world" so NP01:29
javispedro$HOME is not in MyDocs.01:30
dproneeded to check my xdev environment01:30
Damion2dpro: I'm new too01:30
Damion2I've been reading the wiki but it's not enough01:31
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Bug 8328 now seems to be properly fixed.01:32
povbot`Bug all isn't showing All applications (especially the former main screen apps)01:32
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dproDamion2: what are you trying to do anyway ?01:33
Damion2has anyone tried compiling mediatomb?01:33
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dproDamion2: nope - have you ?01:34
Damion2dpro: my todo list is long, but a few things: sticky ctrl, ffmpeg magic for converting the mp4s for the ps301:35
Damion2dpro: I tried to run twonkyserver01:35
Damion2one of the daemons segvs01:35
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dpromediatomb here says "require Automake 1.9, but have 1.8.5" and I'm not familiar enough with sb to change that without maybe breaking sth else01:39
woglindeuser SBOX_DEFAULT_AUTOMAKE=1.901:40
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dprowoglinde: cheers, let's see how far it gets this time ... ouch mysql ...01:41
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ph1loh, man, bootchart is a beast! n900 has no mercy within init scripts :-)01:46
dprogreat - just built my first actually usefull deb for n90001:47
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ph1ldpro, my i can ask what the app is it?01:47
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dproph1l: jhead :)01:47
ph1luh, exif-stuff... great01:48
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LuserN800ph1l, can you post a result of bootchart somewhere?01:50
dproph1l: yeah I find my make, model, camera settings, gps coords aren't anyone's business really ;)01:50
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ph1lLuserN800, sadly still no success... had to write some helper apps... but i will for sure :-)01:51
LuserN800ah ok. I could have a look on how to do it for my n800 meanwhile :)01:52
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ph1lhave a link?01:53
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ph1lthis /sbin/preinit-stuff drive me crazy :-)01:53
ph1lhhow did you replace the init script?01:55
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LuserN800thanks javispedro01:55
javispedronot mine01:55
LuserN800what a mess :)01:55
SpeedEvilI noticed some stupids.01:55
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ph1lyeah, upstart :-)01:56
SpeedEvilFor example - ps|grep name|awk '{print $1}'01:56
SpeedEvilinstead of pidof01:56
ph1lwow, just realised, it's from the n900 thx verymuch!01:56
SpeedEvileach one of those eats ~25ms of CPU01:56
SpeedEvilAnd sure - it's only maybe .1s in total - but...01:57
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javispedroSpeedEvil: filed them in bugzilla?01:58
SpeedEvilnot yet.01:58
LuserN800with the patch ;)01:58
javispedroah, I remember you were asking that a few days ago01:58
SpeedEvilI was wanting to understand why they were there and if they were in fact in the boot sequence.01:58
SpeedEvilI haven't confirmed that.01:58
LuserN800what happens between 25s and 30s? xorg?01:59
javispedrothe hands video01:59
javispedro(I guess)01:59
javispedro(aka hildon-welcome)01:59
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ph1li'm researching the boot process because i want to know if theres already a Xserver when the /home gets mounted02:01
ph1l... because i would like to find a way to enter a password...02:01
greenflyph1l: heh, I'm considering setting up something similar02:02
SpeedEvilThe 'right' way would seem to be to do the xdm thing02:02
LuserN800yep.. some sleep, some grep02:02
greenflyat least, if you are trying to set up encrypted /home02:02
dprodoes anyone know what it would take to get realtime operation going on an n900 ?02:02
ph1lhehe, greenfly...02:02
javispedromy wild guess is that xorg is up since the first time the dots animation flickrs02:02
greenflywaiting on my microSD card to arrive though02:02
javispedroer.. flickers.02:03
dpro/etc/security/limits.conf doesn't seem to make a difference ...02:03
greenflyph1l: what I thought might be cool is to set up the encrypted partition on the microSD and use symlinks or something from the regular home02:03
ph1lgreenfly, what kind of enc do you use? i'll thought encfs would be great02:03
greenflyph1l: or set it up such that the microSD mounts on top of the regular /home02:03
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greenflythat way if you remove the microSD, you get defaults and things look normal02:04
ShadowJKjavispedro, i think the progress bar isn't drawn by X02:04
* dpro never found the sound of jack_metro quite so soothing as it is now02:04
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greenflyph1l: hmm I hadn't gotten that far yet02:04
* ShadowJK has booted his N900 so rarely he doens't exactly remember what happens02:04
javispedroShadowJK: "progress bar"?02:04
ShadowJKisn't there a moving progress bar when it boots02:04
ph1lhave armel-encfs build already...02:04
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ph1lbut no way to enter the password :-)02:04
SpeedEvilShadowJK: very shortly after02:04
ShadowJKWell, whatever fb-progress does, anyway :)02:05
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ShadowJKbefore Xorg starts02:05
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greenflyph1l: if I had to guess, I'd say /home is mounted first, as part of the standard startup02:05
ph1lsounds like we have to build the password-dialog within framebuffer02:05
javispedroShadowJK: on the n810 fb-progress is doing its thing right until h-d appears.02:05
javispedrobut on the n900, xorg is launched quite early iirc02:06
greenflyat least traditionally, X was last to start (although that's different now with U9.10 and on afaik)02:06
ph1l /home is mounted within /etc/init.d/rcS-late (or /etc/event.d)02:06
javispedro(I am reasoning this since the PIN entry dialog is a X11 dialog and gets in quite early)02:06
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greenflyyeah, the n900 linux seems to have inherited a lot of the latest ways to boot from U9.1002:06
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greenfly(like everything being an upstart script)02:06
greenflyph1l: what I'm probably going to do is modify the udev script that mountes the microSD02:07
infobotgreenfly meant: ph1l: what I'm probably going to do is modify the udev script that mounts the microSD02:07
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ph1li haven't played with microSD atm...02:08
greenflyI'd like to keep all the encrypted data off in a portable form :)02:08
ph1lbut /home gets definitly mounted before Xserver (sadly)02:08
greenflyit's too bad you have to remove the back case to get to it02:08
greenflyit'd be nice to just swap back and forth with the n900 and my laptop02:09
ph1lgreenfly, yes true02:09
greenflyph1l: what you may have to do is something similar to what the easy chroot guys do02:09
* SpeedEvil ponders one-time 2d barcodes printed on extra-strong-mints.02:09
greenflyand have it in an encrypted loopback filesystem within /home02:09
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ph1ldoes anybody knows where this dots come from (bootup status bar)?02:10
SpeedEvilph1l: read /etc/init.d/fb*02:10
greenflyph1l: the "MODS share your MODS" or whatever thread in talks about it02:10
greenflybecause some people have changed it out02:10
SpeedEvilOooh - you can even customeise the dots easily :)02:11
ph1lgreenfly, i dont think that chroot is the way to go... sounds... to much of a hack...02:11
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DocScrutinizergreenfly: what's wrong basically with removing backlid? linux has a way to unmount the uSD this way02:11
ph1lgreenfly, i would like to see something like "prebootauth"02:12
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greenflyDocScrutinizer: the way you have to sorta rip the back lid off the n900, I'd be uncomfortable doing it daily02:12
ShadowJKN8x0 had small door/flap, which it could also detect if it was open02:12
* DocScrutinizer wonders if he needs *any* display to enter a authenication keypress(-sequence? combination?) on early boottime02:13
DocScrutinizergreenfly: ack. feels like killing a chicken02:13
* simula hides his pet chicken02:14
SpeedEvilWell - at least you can have an animated penguin on early boot easily02:14
SpeedEvil(replace the indicator_update* images with something else02:15
ph1ljust to be shure, the dots are displayed within framebufer right?02:15
javispedrothe first ones are.02:15
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javispedroafter Xorg is started, they're drawn by a Gtk+ app.02:16
ph1laaah, thx, thats why the confusion came from, just the first ones... :-)02:16
javispedroand I believe the hand off is made when it "flickers" early in the boot process02:16
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* DocScrutinizer envisions a nice coloful sequence of indicator LED, and authentication is done by pressing and releasing the right kbd button the right time (alias color)02:18
dprook before I go any further with all the red wine ... how hard is it to brick one of those n900s ?02:18
DocScrutinizerpress on second blue flash, release on first orange after02:18
SpeedEvildpro: brick as in make unflashable - unsure.02:19
javispedrorelatively easy if you're aiming for the right target.02:19
SpeedEvilor rahter unflashable with the normal software02:19
SpeedEvilI don't think screwing with anything on / will do it02:19
SpeedEvilwriting to some mmc partitions might02:19
dproSpeedEvil: the latter02:19
SpeedEvilor rather - the onenand02:20
SpeedEvilthe mmc is safe02:20
SpeedEvilat least in terms of not bricking02:20
dprooh and BTW where is the actual sources.list ? the app manager is a bit cumbersome02:21
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javispedroin the usual place(s).02:23
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javispedro/etc/apt/sources.list.d etc.02:23
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, really?02:32
pupnikGeneralAntilles: downloa it02:32
javispedroerm... pupnik, was that for me?02:33
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, no, that one is :P02:33
lantizianight folks02:34
javispedrocrashing through a netjoin into the room only to see that is always comforting :)02:34
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phrecksup everyone02:42
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javispedroohmy, is a USSD bug filed _daily_02:48
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: huh?02:48
javispedrobugzilla "spam"02:48
DocScrutinizer*100# issue?02:49
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, purty much.02:49
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, the DUPLICATE rate is skyrocketing.02:49
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javispedromaybe a "suggested duplicates" feature (ala tmo) could help02:51
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, the default search needs to be fixed to search RESOLVED and CLOSED bugs.02:52
javispedrostill, consdering it's the _most frequent duplicate_ according to the link in the file bug page...02:53
javispedroprobably nothing other than just redirecting bugs with certain keywords to youtube will help.02:53
GeneralAntillesAny improvements are waiting on 3.4.02:53
GeneralAntillesI can't believe so many people seem to REQUIRE USSD.02:54
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GeneralAntillesI've used it maybe once or twice since I started carrying a cellphone daily.02:55
javispedroI can understand -- here even the largest mobile operator staff _is going to be really confused_ if you tell them that dialing *#stuff# doesn't work for checking your balance in your phone02:55
ArkenoiUSSD is the most common way to use prepaid cards for payments02:55
GeneralAntilles(something like 11 years now)02:55
Arkenoiand the most common way to check account balance02:55
javispedrostill, I am yet to see any telco not providing an alternative way02:56
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javispedrothough again, I repeat that the reason I love this platform is because you can fix the manufacturer' glaring omissions :)02:59
GeneralAntillesfMMS. QED.02:59
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glyphjavispedro: on that note, is there a hack available anywhere to provide per-contact ringtones? :)03:00
derfI have never understood why so many default bug searches that exclude RESOLVED and CLOSED.03:00
javispedroI think so.03:00
glyphjavispedro: oh, awesome.  I haven't managed to find it yet via google or apt.  do you have a pointer?03:01
javispedrono, but I guess TMO.03:01
GeneralAntillesderf, Bugzilla default.03:01
sp3000derf: yeah it's annoying. the organic thesaurus data is right there and then it goes ignore that ;)03:01
GeneralAntillesderf, we really need to change that. . . .03:01
glyphjavispedro: "TMO"?03:01
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sp3000derf: presumably it's a reasonable default when you're working on fixing stuff, rather than reporting and triaging and such03:02
derfWho _searches_ for bugs when they're working on fixing stuff?03:03
pupnikwho wants to learn who preceeded most of the techno03:03
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sp3000well, queries for stuff ...but, yeah, that sort of query will tend to do things other than default anyway03:04
sp3000so yeah maybe not a strong point :)03:04
* GeneralAntilles thinks good thought's in Karsten's direction to get 3.4 done.03:05
sp3000is that stuff like, guided bug form with an iframe for the topdups like on bmozorg?03:06
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I have *31#<number> entries in my contacts, for friends I *always* want to call with my number showing up. Then there are other entries like #31#<number>. Up to you to guess what these do...03:06
sp3000or something in that ballpark03:06
sp3000DocScrutinizer, grenade launcher?03:07
GeneralAntillessp3000, yeah, that stuff.03:07
GeneralAntillessp3000, though I think there are plans for a more wizard-like approach to the guided form.03:07
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* sp3000 puts on his robe and wizard hat03:07
DocScrutinizernah, grenade launcher is *#1570#03:07
javispedropulseaudio tcp remote clients work.03:07
javispedronow they'll ask me what I did and I don't know since I've not done anything special.03:08
ali1234wiping and reflashing every time nokia squeezes out an update is starting to get a bit annoying03:09
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GeneralAntillesali1234, er?03:09
javispedroeasy solution. just wait for 9 months, and tada! no more upgrades.03:09
GeneralAntillesali1234, you realize updates are pushed through h-a-m, right? :)03:10
DocScrutinizerall sorts of more specific call diverting also not supported by GUI. *61*<divert-to-number>*<time># not working due to USSD bug03:10
ali1234it tells me to use PC suite03:10
GeneralAntillesali1234, have you been using Extras-testing or -devel?03:10
javispedrowhich means you broke the mp-fremantle package03:10
AndrewfblackI don't get why n900 doesn't work with ovi suite03:10
javispedroprobably because you installed ogles1.103:10
GeneralAntillesYou have conflicting packages installed.03:10
javispedrowhich until pr1.1 conflicted with mp-fremantle-pr blabla03:10
DocScrutinizerkittori told me they're working on it. So probably fixed soon03:10
GeneralAntillesali1234, when you deal with beta and alpha software, expect things to break. :)03:10
GeneralAntillesali1234, that's not Nokia's fault.03:11
ali1234not nokia's fault?03:11
DocScrutinizer(USSD that is)03:11
GeneralAntillesali1234, indeed.03:11
ali1234it's the fault of whoever put broken packages on the repo...03:11
GeneralAntillesali1234, which aint Nokia.03:11
ali1234that would be... maemo.org03:11
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ali1234aka "you guys"03:11
GeneralAntillesali1234, -testing and -devel are not stability or functionality guaranteed.03:11
GeneralAntillesali1234, the warnings about the software in those repositories are numerous and hard to miss.03:12
GeneralAntillesali1234, in fact, Nokia shows you one everytime you install software from them.03:12
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GeneralAntillesali1234, if you want the QAed stuff, use Extras.03:12
GeneralAntillesali1234, otherwise you really don't have a foot to stand on.03:12
ali1234nokia shows a warning any time i install things form extras too03:12
ali1234also the fact remains that i will just install all these packages again once i have updated03:13
GeneralAntillesali1234, you've forfeited your right to bitch and moan.03:13
ali1234so it's a conflicting package you say?03:13
GeneralAntillesali1234, yes.03:13
GeneralAntillesqt4-phonon is a popular culprit.03:13
ali1234i forfeit my right to report bugs by testing software specifically uploaded to be bug-tested?03:14
javispedro... which ironically is made by nokia, but the point is still valid :)03:14
ali1234that's true irony03:14
* Andrewfblack wish there was a way to block non devs from -devel03:14
javispedroI'd wish that too.03:14
GeneralAntillesali1234, no, you forfeit your right to bitch and moan.03:14
GeneralAntilles<ali1234> wiping and reflashing every time nokia squeezes out an update is starting to get a bit annoying03:14
ali1234well it is03:14
javispedronow I can't upload anything to -devel without getting an email in less that 24 hours from someone who installed it and is surprised it deleted all its settings03:14
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, lol.03:15
Andrewfblackjavispedro, I got one once before i even had time to download the app my self03:15
ali1234i doubt i have qt4 installed03:15
ali1234qt4-phonon sorry03:15
ali1234so it must be the GLES stuff03:16
javispedroi filed the bug03:17
ali1234why does it conflict anyway?03:17
ali1234does the updated firmware have gles1.1 as default?03:17
ali1234or do they just conflict with any packages not in extras just to annoy people?03:17
javispedronope, but at least the one in tableeter is "compatible" with the device gles2.003:17
javispedro(in pr1.1)03:17
ali1234don't understand what you mean03:18
ali1234they're two different libraries03:18
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ali1234no reason not to have them both installed03:18
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javispedroon pr1.0 they conflicted03:18
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ali1234funny, they don't conflict here03:18
ali1234i have both installed, it works fine03:18
javispedrobecause you probably downgraded gles2.0 (yes you can do that)03:19
dprook so I just try to build a package with a rather elaborate SConstruct, but there is no "subprocess" module in sb ... anyone familiar enough with scons to tell me what I should change "['sh', ''])" to ?03:19
ali1234the reason i can't update OTA is because "E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/."03:19
javispedrono, that's the reason you can't use apt-get upgrade03:19
javispedroh-a-m does not use /var/cache/apt03:19
ali1234yeah, it doesn't report any conflicts03:19
javispedroh-a-m is much more strict about things03:20
ali1234i see03:20
javispedro(probably) with reason03:20
ali1234i will temporarily bind-mount on that dir and use apt-get03:20
javispedroyeah, some people did that.03:20
ali1234HAM still sucks i guess03:20
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javispedroit seems to work with this update.03:20
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andreshm - am I the only one getting "Size mismatch" errors when updating atm?03:23
ali1234btw is there any way to see what packages HAM is disliking?03:24
ali1234or do i just have to guess?03:24
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jebbaali1234:  apt-get update -o dir::cache=/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache03:29
ali1234too late, i already did it03:29
ali1234i assume you mean dist-upgrade too03:30
ali1234or is that how to see conflicts?03:30
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Damion2my / rapidly approached 0 when I did that.  I raced to address it and eventually it seemed to work, I won't do it again03:31
ali1234what's the worst that can happen? i have to reflash it? lol03:31
Damion2there is a list of common / fillers to remove and then the ota works03:31
ali1234i have no faith in HAM any more anyway03:31
* Damion2 lacks a desktop to used easily03:31
ali1234i will stick to apt-get from now on03:31
GeneralAntillesBad plan.03:33
GeneralAntillesBut you seem to like reflashing, so carry on.03:33
ali1234yeah, terrible plan03:33
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ali1234"wah wah wah"03:33
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dprook coming closer ... anyone knows if there's a less ancient scons for sb that will run with sb's aaaaancient pythn03:34
dpros/pythn/python ?/03:34
infobotdpro meant: ok coming closer ... anyone knows if there's a less ancient scons for sb that will run with sb's aaaaancient python ?03:34
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GeneralAntillesali1234, sounds like your line.03:34
ali1234i'm famous for complaining03:35
GeneralAntillesI can tell. :)03:35
andresfamous or infamous...03:35
ali1234infamous i guess03:35
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shinkamuiwhats going on03:50
javispedrodogs and cats are living together and people are dying03:51
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AndrewfblackGeneralAntilles, Interested in going to any Linux Shows for Maemo/Mer Next year?03:56
Andrewfblackor this year I mean lol03:56
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GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, any suggestions?03:57
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, you want to arrange a table, I'll be happy to play expert. ;)03:58
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AndrewfblackGeneralAntilles, This year I am doing SELF, Atlanta Linus Fest and Florida Linux Show again03:58
AndrewfblackSELF is going to be a long drive this year they moved it to spartanburg, sc04:00
GeneralAntillesLong drive indeed.04:00
GeneralAntillesBet I can do Atlanta and FLS, though.04:00
Andrewfblackok, this will be first year for Atlanta for me going to start checking into a table for it soon, I know I can get a table at FLS no problem04:02
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AndrewfblackMaybe we can get this Linux Show sponsorship thing figure out soon and we an get our expenses paid04:03
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javispedro~seen pycage04:09
infoboti haven't seen 'pycage', javispedro04:09
Arkenoi lol04:10
Arkenoiand it is dual sim, has portrait mode and j2me!04:10
GeneralAntillesAh, Talk.04:12
GeneralAntillesGotta love it.04:12
GeneralAntillesThanks, lcuk!04:12
GeneralAntillesMaking my life so much easier.04:12
javispedroand interesting04:13
* GeneralAntilles can't believe people actually managed to open the lens cover while taking the device out of their pockets.04:14
GeneralAntillesThat's up there with people who complain about the lock slider unlocking the device accidentally. <_<04:14
ali1234yeah cos a "feature" that does the exact opposite of what it is supposed to do is actually very good04:14
GeneralAntillesWhen you use a case that isn't designed for the device, expect hardware features to behave badly.04:15
ali1234when you blah blah feeble excuse, expect blah blah bad things04:16
GeneralAntillesali1234, if you've got nothing useful to contribute, kindly move on to more productive pursuits. :)04:16
javispedroif you not blablablablablabla, move on to blablablabla pursuits >:)04:16
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javispedroah.. and using module-tunnel-sink invokes the dreaded PA client library dead lock04:19
javispedrohow nice.04:19
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javispedrooh, more "VOTE FOR MY BUGS" campaigns in TMO04:24
* GeneralAntilles is just a bit tired of Maemo today.04:25
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javispedroI'm going to open a new thread for people to vote for my media.role bug.04:26
GeneralAntillesTHIS is why I want the votes-to-UNCONFIRM count raised. . . .04:27
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javispedroactually I'm going to create a webservice where you click on a link and it automatically registers a bmo account, votes for the bug, files a few duplicates for it and then adds the created account to all of the bugs cc lists.04:28
* GeneralAntilles doesn't know why so many people hate reason and productivity.04:28
GeneralAntillesPlease make it send Viagra spam disguised as technical comments.04:29
javispedro"My telco sends me Viagra advertisements using USSD codes!"04:30
javispedro*changes severity to "critical"04:30
GeneralAntillesWe should add a "Super fucking important" priority.04:31
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ali1234the idea is to keep on filing bug reports until such time as *actually fixing the bugs* becomes less time consuming than marking them WONTFIX and arguing with the submitters04:32
javispedrosounds like a super villain masterplan.04:33
GeneralAntillesali1234, yeah, because that's clearly the problem at hand here.04:34
javispedro'yesterday' is not a legal date.04:35
zashjavispedro: strtotime() in fscken php accepts that! :P04:37
shinkamuitrying to build a native copy of lmms in the scratchbox04:42
shinkamuiits murder on me04:42
shinkamuiseriously, errors left and right, very stupid too, its like jacking off with Icy Hot04:42
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: now - 1 day is though. yesterday olso should work on GNU04:51
DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> date -d yesterday  #-> Mo 25. Jan 03:53:51 CET 201004:54
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javispedrofortunately, -1 was accepted04:55
javispedro(meaning -1 day :P )04:56
javispedrorandom queries in bugzilla :P04:56
GeneralAntilles1d, 1w, 1m, etc.04:57
villagerI read in the newspaper that facebook makes people dumber and more selfish... maybe that's what's going on04:57
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GeneralAntillesvillager, I'd buy it.04:57
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shinkamuiGeneralAntilles, not so hard to believe, my lense cover is hosed05:00
shinkamuinot spring loaded anymore05:00
shinkamuislides open and closed at will05:00
GeneralAntillesshinkamui, how'd that happen?05:00
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javispedroI can't believe screenshot-tool is gone05:01
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javispedroah, it's in devtools. sorry.05:02
DocScrutinizeralas on maemo5 we got friggin messybox instead of decent coreutils :-(05:04
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shinkamuino idea GeneralAntilles just broke o its own05:09
shinkamuiread in the forum about the issue05:09
shinkamuinokia wouldn't replace it05:09
shinkamuimy retailer had no more units05:09
shinkamuiwasn't a huge deal to me, so I read in the forum how to fix it05:09
shinkamuifix worked for about a week,05:10
shinkamuiassume the glue broke or something over time, or the metal spring bent permanently05:10
shinkamuifigured fuxk it, waiting for mugens 2600mah battery then Ill buy that and the replacement cover05:10
shinkamuiless than a month away05:10
prontoeh, how does one send a text message to someone not in your contacts list05:11
prontoand never mind, i feel stupid now05:11
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prontoor not really, tried to send a text to my email and it says not one of my contacts O_o05:12
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GeneralAntillesshinkamui, interesting.05:14
GeneralAntillesshinkamui, spring is plastic on my proto.05:14
shinkamuithe little one in this retail unit is metal05:15
GeneralAntillesOr maybe not.05:15
GeneralAntillesIt's metal05:15
shinkamuiwell, bent I assume05:15
greenflypronto: you can SMS an email address?05:15
GeneralAntillesshinkamui, checked eBay for backplates?05:15
prontogreenfly: umm  yeah...05:15
shinkamuinaah, figure Ill just wait05:15
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shinkamuiit works, just doesn't lock in eithe rdirection05:15
prontoi've done it many ttimes on many phones :\05:15
greenflypronto: weird, never knew that05:15
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prontothats how like ALL my non tech friends get pictures of there phones :|05:16
prontosend the pic to there email05:16
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* DocScrutinizer coughs05:19
shinkamuianyone care to share with me how to apply multiple patch files from a debian source05:20
shinkamuipatch -p1 < [*.patch]05:21
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cehtehfor i in *.patch; do patch -p1 <$i; done   ?05:23
shinkamuicehteh, that would probably work05:23
shinkamuiI hope this helps with this build05:23
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prontoso anyone know how to send a SMS to someone NOT in your contacts list o.O05:24
DocScrutinizercat *.patch >megapatch: patch -p1 megapatch05:25
cehtehDocScrutinizer: that will not work ..05:27
cehtehpatch -p1 <megapatch  :)05:27
DocScrutinizeryeah missed the <05:27
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shinkamuicehteh, your bash script worked fine05:28
shinkamuinow im reconfiging, hope those patches fix this build problem05:28
cehtehwell you better sort the patches .. dunno if the *.patch does that05:28
shinkamuibuilding lmms is not working out very well, I hope its actually as useful as the easydebian demo video made it look05:28
shinkamuicehteh, they're debian source patches, sorted by leading numbers05:29
cehtehyes but i dont know if * orders05:29
cehtehshell stuff05:29
shinkamuiaah, good point05:30
cehtehmight be ordered by mtime/ctime as well, i forgot05:30
cehtehor completely unordered05:30
shinkamuiI had just assumed its already ordered alphabetically05:30
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cehtehmaybe its even ordered alphabethically05:31
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cehtehi just forgotten :P05:31
DocScrutinizercehteh: I guess it's undefined05:32
DocScrutinizerusually alphabetical though05:32
DocScrutinizerecho *.patch05:32
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DocScrutinizerwell it occurs to me sysv init relies on alphabetical sort order of * shell expansion05:36
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cehtehmaybe it is well defined05:38
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cehtehi didnt argue against it .. just forgotten the fact :)05:39
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shinkamuiif this fails, Im calling it quits for tonight05:40
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shinkamuidoes anyone have easy debian mount on startup?05:45
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shinkamuiok, funk this05:57
shinkamuilmms just isn't gonna build without some source edits05:57
shinkamuiaccessibleName not declared in the current scope05:58
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GeneralAntillesClearly we need this in the N920:
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adalalhey, anyone know if voice navigation is available for maemo5?06:29
shinkamuiwhats voice navigation06:32
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adalalshinkamui: on ovi maps.. nokia's made turn-by-turn voice navigation free for all gps-enabled handsets06:32
shinkamuiturn by turn gps via maps?06:32
shinkamuiits not06:32
shinkamuiN97 and N900 were skipped06:33
shinkamuiand the N97 will get it soon06:33
GeneralAntillesadalal, don't get your hopes up.06:33
shinkamuiNo confirmation on the N900 ever06:33
GeneralAntillesadalal, I'd look at Sygic in the mean time.06:33
shinkamuiconfirmed for Maemo 6 though06:33
adalalGeneralAntilles: but sygic is paid :P..06:33
GeneralAntillesI think the hedging about Maemo probably just means Maemo 6.06:33
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GeneralAntillesWhich wont be coming to the N900 thanks to that capacitive retardation.06:33
shinkamuithat really annoys me06:34
shinkamuiIm almost mad for indulging in another nokia device06:34
shinkamuithey always freeking do this06:34
GeneralAntillesshinkamui, this your first Maemo device?06:34
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: M6 Maps should work on M5 though?06:34
shinkamuiI had an N800 for a while06:34
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, probably doable.06:34
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, but there's the principle of the thing.06:34
shinkamui9300, N80, and N95 in the symbian world too06:35
GeneralAntillesshinkamui, I've invested thousands of hours in this platform.06:35
GeneralAntillesshinkamui, and Nokia going capacitive feels like a stab in the back.06:35
shinkamuiI love it GeneralAntilles , but damn, I hate nokia's busines smodel06:35
shinkamuiGeneralAntilles, pretty typical of nokia06:35
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: I'd be okay with investing, if Nokia didn't constantly force it to go down the drain :)06:35
shinkamuito abandon devices to keep selling whats new06:35
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure what I'm going to do when Maemo 6 rolls around.06:35
adalali like resistive...06:35
adalali can use it with my gloves :P06:35
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: ah, yeah, that's how I've felt for a while, even N8x0 => N90006:35
GeneralAntillesMaybe assault the marketing people at the Summit. . . .06:36
shinkamuione thing I love about htc, constant upgrades even for old shit, at least hte community is as strong as xda-dev06:36
luke-jrbut as everyone's always pointing out to me, what else is better? :/06:36
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, probably other things if they're going capacitive.06:36
shinkamuiREsisitive multitouch06:36
shinkamuikills capacative06:36
GeneralAntillesshinkamui, indeed.06:36
shinkamuiKILLS it06:36
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luke-jrshinkamui: has anyone got that workign?06:36
GeneralAntillesshinkamui, I don't know why they insist on dropping such a large portion of their customer base.06:36
shinkamuiits not a just make it work situation06:36
shinkamuiyou need a resisitve multitouch display06:37
luke-jrah, so in practice it does require hardware?06:37
GeneralAntillesIt's available, reasonable inexpensive and very effective.06:37
cehtehhehe and ship it with 2 stylii :)06:37
shinkamuinever heard if the rumor was confirmed06:37
shinkamuithe N900 has a stantum multitiouch resistive screen06:37
shinkamuijust no driver06:37
GeneralAntillesNo way06:37
adalalshinkamui: the n900 does detect multiple touches06:37
shinkamuijust heard it06:37
GeneralAntillesThey'd be shipping Maemo 6 for it if it did.06:37
adalalmakes sense..06:38
GeneralAntillesadalal, it can algorithmically detect 2-touch.06:38
shinkamuiadalal, no any resisitve screen can "detect" multiple touches06:38
shinkamuijust not with any accuracy06:38
shinkamuibased on location and time06:38
shinkamuibetween the touches06:38
shinkamuipolling time for the screen determines how accurate you can get06:38
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luke-jrand the multi-touch can't have moving points, right?06:39
luke-jror at most, one moving point06:39
shinkamuiof course it can06:39
shinkamuiin a true multitiouch06:39
shinkamuinot software interpretation06:39
luke-jrright, I meant the "based on location and time"06:39
shinkamuipoint 1 = origin, if time lower than threshold, point 2 = halfway mark betwene 2nd touch06:39
goodwillI like resistive better06:39
shinkamuisimple slope calculation to determine the real 2nd point06:39
goodwillusing your nail and and stylus rock06:39
shinkamuidoesn't work if the origin moves though06:39
luke-jrI don't think I've ever tried capacitive06:39
shinkamuibut it can be used for simple calculations for shrink and grow06:40
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, it's an adjustment. . . .06:40
GeneralAntillesand not a good one.06:40
luke-jrtbh, i'd probably be semi-happy with a nub mouse :)06:40
GeneralAntillesYou have to fat-finger everything.06:40
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: what about capacitive stylus?06:40
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, they look like crayon's with very used tips.06:41
shinkamuithats a total hater attitude06:41
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, capacitive is very limited in its precision.06:41
shinkamuiI agree06:41
shinkamuia good resisitve screen is always WAY more useful than a capacitive screen06:41
shinkamuithe only thing I really got used to with a capacitive was the super gentle touch06:41
* goodwill agrees with shinkamui 06:42
shinkamuihowever, stantums screens are so amazingly sensitive you can use a paintbrush on it06:42
* luke-jr imagines a kid painting a touchscreen >_<06:42
luke-jrpaintbrush to the screen is not something I want my children to learn XD06:42
* luke-jr peers06:44
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Jef91Howdy All06:48
Jef91Is there a method yet of using the n900 as a blue tooth remote control for my media center?06:49
GeneralAntillesJef91, BlueMaemo?06:49
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goodwillJef91 its still devel I think06:51
Jef91goodwill thanks - I just want to know its at least making headway before I go buy a bluetooth adapter for my MC PC06:51
Jef91Yep bluemaemo appears to be it - thanks GeneralAntilles06:52
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shinkamuiI gotta figure out what accessibleName is part of06:53
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kuriirican i change the layout of virtual keyboard?07:04
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kuriiribecause it has rather annoying layout07:04
GeneralAntilleskuriiri, yes, but not all that easily.07:05
kuriiriin main view it has ;.. who uses that more than : ?07:05
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GeneralAntillesI do?07:05
kuriirior ' more than . or /07:06
GeneralAntillesAh, I see the issue07:06
GeneralAntillesWell, it wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't completely broken virtual input in PR1.107:06
GeneralAntillesBut, as always, Nokia knows best!07:06
GeneralAntilles(even though they rarely do)07:06
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kuriiriyeah it seems no-one tried to write any urls with it :)07:08
GeneralAntilleskuriiri, testing virtual input isn't a part of their QA process.07:08
GeneralAntilleskuriiri, they just do evil things to it and introduce 2 bugs for every 1 bug fixed with each successive release.07:08
GeneralAntilleskuriiri, then tell us to deal with it.07:08
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* GeneralAntilles senses an Android user.07:10
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kuriirinice ranting there07:10
spectre-i'm also gonna assume nokia wasn't concerned with it's n900 users being able to type ip addresses07:10
GeneralAntilleskuriiri, you don't even know.07:10
GeneralAntilleskuriiri, I've been fighting the steady decline of virtual input since 2006.07:11
spectre-i'm also gonna assume nokia wasn't concerned with it's n900 users being able to type ip addresses07:11
kuriirispectre-: excatly!07:11
spectre-anybody have a good technique or workaround for that problem?07:12
spectre-(accidental up enter there)07:12
GeneralAntillesTheir usability people just have feature-phone users in mind.07:12
spectre-yet we get a shell in the menu by default?07:12
GeneralAntillesCognitive disconnect.07:13
spectre-seems like a huge oversight to me07:13
GeneralAntillesThey just need us around to make their platform better07:13
GeneralAntillesbut they don't actually want our business.07:13
GeneralAntillesWhich is why the platform and the hardware is getting steadily less useful for the people who helped make it great.07:13
* GeneralAntilles is in a foul mood for all things Maemo today.07:13
spectre-yeah let's build it up and get tech features stripped every time07:14
spectre-though this instance is a hardware shortcoming07:14
spectre-and i'm gonna go ahead and thank god that maemo even exists07:14
spectre-though certain things do make me go wtf07:15
GeneralAntillesIt's too bad Nokia isn't willing to get behind the platform enough to ship more than a single damn product at a time.07:15
GeneralAntillesThen we could have 307:15
GeneralAntillesOne for iPhone users, one for smartphone users, one for geeks.07:15
GeneralAntillesAnd everybody would be more or less happy.07:15
spectre-everyone i show this to is blown away07:15
spectre-could easily sell en masse07:16
spectre-well, i'll settle for a special button combo that fn's the numbers but not the rows below it07:16
spectre-so i can type ip's fast07:17
fredrincan i haz epic cell phone?07:17
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kuriirispectre-: maybe nokia has a mission to change every . in ip addresses to , :)07:20
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spectre-we need voice call recognition and voice dialing as well07:24
spectre-for bluetooth users07:25
shinkamuianyone really familiar with C++07:25
shinkamuiand possibly QT07:25
shinkamuiim trying to figure out what accessibleName and the method SetAccessibleName are07:26
shinkamuipart of07:26
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luke-jrshinkamui: did you read the docs?08:15
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Kamuinaah luke08:37
Kamuibut i will look at the readmes tomorrow08:37
Kamuidecided to go to bed08:37
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Myrttidingdong dingdong morning08:51
* Myrtti pops more painkillers08:51
RST38hMore trouble?08:52
Myrttijust the old M51.108:52
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MyrttiI hate mornings08:53
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redAnyone have any experience on running a SSH-server on a Windows machine? Behind a heavey firewall at school so I cannot access via ftp.. thought I'd use SSH which does work :)08:56
Kamuipacket inspection?08:59
Kamuilooking tlo get to it from behind while behind?09:00
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goodwillred: use cygwin?09:04
goodwillred: or you can run ftp on a ssh port?09:04
redwell I'd prefer a sftp anyways09:05
goodwillfirst google result :)09:05
luke-jrred: stop using Windows?09:05
goodwillred: I am with luke-jr09:05
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redI really prefer windows as a desktop machine. Using linux on my laptop only09:06
luke-jror at least ask in ##Windows if you insist09:06
goodwillred: whats wrong with linux as a desktop machine?09:06
luke-jrgoodwill: he'll probably say games..09:06
goodwillI've been using one for years09:06
goodwillit works like a charm09:06
luke-jrKDE is superior to Windows in all respects, really09:06
goodwillany linux DE/WM is superior to linux09:07
goodwillflipping start button and task bar09:07
goodwillthats all it has09:07
luke-jrdunno, GNOME sucks quite a bit ;)09:07
redhaving to run most of the programs I use via wine - and would have to reconfigure all my running server stuff, having to dualboot to Windows to play games (which I do a couple of hours every day)09:07
* goodwill uses xfce or fvwm09:07
luke-jrand don't you mean *to windows*?09:07
redand I love Win 7, a lot.09:08
luke-jrred: bet there's no reason to use most of those programs09:08
goodwillred: VirtualBox now supports 3d rendering09:08
luke-jrred: and there are plenty of free games09:08
redPhotoshop, Premiere, AfterEffects, Cinema 4D to mention a few09:08
goodwillred: you use them all?09:08
redGimp just isn't photoshop however you look at it.09:08
luke-jrwhy do you use those?09:08
redyes I do :)09:08
luke-jrthey suck, though I admit I can't think of any viable replacements :(09:08
goodwillat leat use a mac09:09
goodwilland gimp rocks09:09
luke-jrred: Photoshop is not something to consider a goal :)09:09
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redI hate Mac GUI (the dock, the finder is horrid)09:09
luke-jrKrita is better than GIMP though09:09
goodwillgimp is pretty good09:09
redlike, I close a program it doesn't close but goes into background in the dock etc :p09:09
redgimp is far from photoshop sadly goodwill09:09
goodwillits just most people expect gimp to work exactly like photoshop09:09
goodwillit does the work for me09:09
luke-jrred: use Krita09:09
goodwillbut I am not a designer09:10
redfor one, gimps menu structure is awful imo09:10
luke-jryay KolourPaint for me :D09:10
goodwillbut CS2 works fine under wine'09:10
goodwillred: thats just something you can get used to09:10
redI also use Fireworks to make basic vector graphics for websites09:10
goodwillred: try inkscape09:10
goodwillits nice09:10
redI have inkscape on windows too09:10
redit's ok for different sort of vector working, mainly vs. illustrator09:10
redbut it boils down to making compromises which I don't want to -- and Win 7 works great for me :)09:11
luke-jrfine, so use WINE09:11
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goodwillor a nice VirtualBox09:11
goodwillI do ...09:11
luke-jrgoodwill: then he's still running Windows09:11
goodwillluke-jr: but at least its contained09:11
uhsfI hope my N900 ships tomorrow, good night.09:12
goodwillluke-jr: with virtualized windows and snapshots I feel I do not have to spend time fixing win crap09:12
redand to answer what I do, 3D is a hobby, I make prerendered animations mostly and some smallscale modeling, I edit the stuff in Premiere/AfterEffects. Also making short film entry level stuff with friends. Also compose music with Jeskola Buzz which is a pain to get working on linux due its kinda buggy but I've grown fond of it past 10 years. Then I do webdesign as a sidework while studying too :)09:13
luke-jrgoodwill: shrug, I get by just fine without touching Windows09:13
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goodwillluke-jr: I only use it for Outlook and Nokia PC-Suite09:13
redAnd with Photoshop I do all sorta graphics from image fixing to powerpoint layouts for $09:13
luke-jr3D should be done in code :D09:13
goodwillluke-jr: for sync09:13
luke-jrPOV-Ray style09:14
goodwillluke-jr: not allowed to sync to "unauthorized" devices vial Mfe09:14
goodwillat work09:14
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redAlso thinking of making more Flash games when CS5 comes so I can directly export to iPhone and earn some money by it =)09:14
luke-jrred: fail09:14
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luke-jrthis is #Maemo, not #iPhonecrap09:14
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goodwillred: you an n900 user?09:14
redheres one game :)09:14
redgoodwill: yupp09:14
goodwillred:  or any maemo09:14
slonopotamusmorning. -28 outside.09:15
redluckily only -17 here ^^09:15
goodwillred: windows lover + iphone app maker with a maemo09:15
goodwillred: thats some combo09:15
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redgoodwill: I don't hate windows just cause it's trendy for a linux user09:15
redVista is shit, so is XP thought :)09:16
goodwillred: I do not dislike it cause its trendy09:16
luke-jrred: quite frankly, Windows is useless. Only ignorants and fanboys use it by choice. :)09:16
redWin 7 is the first Windows to really feel awesome since the first time I launched 3.1409:16
goodwillred: I spend years supporting and programming for it ... I have actual reasons to hate it09:16
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luke-jrred: there was never a Windows 3.14 :P09:16
redwas it 3.11 then? :p09:16
goodwillwhich reminds me09:17
redcan't remember the splash screen any longer :)09:17
luke-jrgoodwill: well, I program for Windows; it's not *that* bad ... sometimes09:17
luke-jrbut I do all my development in Linux09:17
goodwillluke-jr: you know its possible to run win95 in dosbox on maemo09:17
redI saw that too, made me chuckle09:17
luke-jrgoodwill: I know it's possible to run Win7 in qemu on maemo09:17
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goodwillluke-jr: no way there is enough memory to make that usable09:17
luke-jrgoodwill: doesn't mean it's sensible09:17
luke-jrwho said anything about usable?09:17
luke-jrif I wanted usable, I'd have to give up :D09:18
rediPhone app making just makes sense since it's really easy to create touch based (drag & drop or push etc) with Flash, and the CS5 can export to iPhone. Theres a lot of users and if you make a good game and sell it for like 0.79€ per game, it might give you some small income which is always useful for a student09:18
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redand I think it would fit nicely into my e-Portfolio too09:18
goodwillred: true ...09:19
goodwillred: good for portfolio09:19
* goodwill has windoze experience on his resume09:19
redlike the game I pasted just now, only controlling is dragging & dropping the little pieces to build bridges for the lemming thingies, and pushing next level button09:19
redwould just need to create new levels with keeping in mind the iPhone resolution and no additional coding required probably09:19
* luke-jr lists Windows on his resume, but would be unlikely to accept work that required using Windows09:19
goodwillluke-jr: with you there09:20
luke-jrbut then, the people who actually read the resumes don't have a clue09:20
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* goodwill converted all but 1 person in his dept to linux09:20
redI'm currently studying programming in polytechnic.. so far Java, SQL, PHP, XML, some XHTML and CSS (which ain't programming tho)09:20
luke-jrI found some interesting inquiries when I added Qt and Jabber to my resume ;)09:20
luke-jryeah, XMPP09:21
rednext year there are courses for Maemo programming too ^^09:21
redtotally taking that09:21
luke-jrred: XHTML has been discontinued for years... the world is sticking with HTML09:21
goodwillluke-jr: no way09:21
luke-jrwhy on earth is someone teaching XHTML?09:21
redStrict <309:22
goodwillthere are tons of xhtml09:22
luke-jrgoodwill: not really09:22
* goodwill is a webdeveloper09:22
luke-jrif a webpage is really XHTML, MSIE won't display it09:22
luke-jrXHTML 2 broke compatibility with XHTML 109:22
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luke-jrand hasn't been updated in years09:22
redwe were taught basics09:22
redmade sense09:22
luke-jrHTML 5 is the current technology focus09:23
goodwillin the end all *html is crap09:23
redI just abide by W3 Validator and HTML5 now09:23
goodwillmainly cause you still have to do IE09:23
redand CSS3 <309:23
goodwillwhich is crap09:23
goodwillno matter which version09:23
luke-jrgoodwill: never tried IE8-js? :)09:23
luke-jrred: yeah right; Firefox is still playing catchup with CSS 2 IIRC09:23
goodwillluke-jr: IE8-js ?09:23
goodwillluke-jr: the library09:24
luke-jrgoodwill: a Javascript file you can conditionally include to make IE 5.5+ standards-compliant09:24
goodwillluke-jr: had that ... took it out ... conflicted with some other libs09:24
* luke-jr doesn't use any other libs :)09:24
goodwillit was not my choice09:24
luke-jrbut then, I don't write webpages on a regular basis09:25
goodwillwe are still pulling out the mish-mash of libs left by the previous dumbass who wrote it09:25
goodwillthe sob just threw in libs just cause09:25
goodwillalmost done09:25
* goodwill does not want to remember the nightmares09:26
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luke-jrone time, I just said screw IE and had a message saying they needed to use a web browser to access the app :)09:26
luke-jrwith links to Firefox, Konqueror, Safari, and Opera09:27
* luke-jr should add Arora and the newer generation to that page09:27
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goodwillthere are business requirements09:27
luke-jrsometimes :)09:27
Wolfieluke-jr: it's great when that works, but it doesn't work where the Real Money lies09:28
luke-jrWolfie: I'm apparently in high demand enough to be picky about what I do and don't do in most cases.09:28
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luke-jrmight cost a bit of $ in the big picture, but I can live with that09:28
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luke-jranyhow, webpages are not my focus at all, so it's usually only my own stuff09:29
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luke-jrnice thing about Qt is I can just write stuff on Linux and an EXE is just a qmake -profile mingw32 away :)09:31
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luke-jrthen I can test it in WINE and send it off09:31
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goodwillahhh ... xchat on n90009:32
luke-jr(the real testing is of course native Qt/X11; WINE is just to be sure the EXE stuff works)09:32
redluke-jr: well Gnome and Webkit are still quite nice with CSS309:34
redI have Internet explorer sandboxed on my PC :>09:35
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goodwilli bet there is no chance ovi maps 3.0 makes it on n90009:38
goodwillwhat do u think?09:38
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goodwilloooh shortcutd has a gui config now09:39
redgoodwill: "Fixed in Harmattan"09:39
LuserN800  how free is the nokia n90009:40
Wolfieisn't it great when a company makes sure the future customers are served well, but the existing customers are left out dry09:40
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Wolfiei'm not meaning to say that maemo as a whole has failed yet on that part, but i've seen many "fixed in harmattan" issues already floating on this channel09:40
StskeepsLuserN800: your post?09:40
LuserN800Stskeeps, no no :)09:41
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Stskeepsah, good, cos it looks horridly misinformed09:41
LuserN800Stskeeps, just that usually I like this but in this post it looks a bit wrong09:41
LuserN800"I don't think you can usefully install another free distro on the N900"09:41
LuserN800Stskeeps, time to register ;)09:41
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LuserN800too bad it's not open for comments09:43
StskeepsLuserN800: yeah.. my thought09:43
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hrw|goneStskeeps: so comment Lukas post which also was on planet debian and the one which you talk about links there09:44
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goodwillsoon enough FSO will be useful09:44
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Stskeepshrw|gone: i should just prod him instead, i spoke to him in the past a bit as well in my ircd days09:45
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goodwilland with so android phones around I bet it will be easy to throw on so distro on it09:45
luke-jrLuserN800: that comment you quoted at least is true09:48
goodwilldoes anyone remember to what the terminal shortcut key for increasing font size ?09:48
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Stskeepsluke-jr: got an example of how the gpsdriver problem would look like btw?09:49
Stskeepsas in, code wise, what causes it09:49
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luke-jrStskeeps: the particular one I was discussing earlier?09:50
luke-jrcode-wise, it's a lack of reading the data waiting on the pty09:50
LuserN800luke-jr, I have not dig enough neither in the n800 nor in the n900 which I still don't have.. but ... it's because of the boot  loader? not possible to chroot into something? n900 more limited than n800 in this area?09:50
luke-jrbut I don't know what gpsdriver code looks like, so I can't comment on how trivial or not it would be to fix09:50
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luke-jrLuserN800: AFAIK, N900 is superior to N800 in every way09:51
StskeepsLuserN800: it's possible to chroot and if you're willing to bend a bit on your freedom loving principles, there's ways to deal with things09:51
luke-jrLuserN800: but the battery charger is still a closed blob, so a free OS would mean no battery charging09:51
LuserN800Stskeeps, it is a major point for me. i want to order it today ..09:52
LuserN800luke-jr, I was thinking of a free os with the closed-source bits.. yes..09:52
luke-jrLuserN800: if you want something *today*, AFAIK N900 is your best shot. if you want something usable with a 100% free OS, I'm pretty sure you'll need to wait or compromise on hardware capability09:52
StskeepsLuserN800: what i -do- like about N900 is the fact there's no closed source kernel drivers. there's blobs (wifi, bt, camera firmware) and battery management.. but it doesn't go much beyond that09:53
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* goodwill agrees with luke-jr09:54
Stskeepsluke-jr: got a URL for your thread regarding it?09:54
LuserN800so.. somebody HAS to answer on :)09:55
luke-jrLuserN800: though if you don't want a keyboard, you *might* be better with Nexus One; no idea on how true the claims of it beign 100% free are though09:55
luke-jrStskeeps: thread?09:55
Stskeepsluke-jr: regarding the tty/pty stuff09:55
LuserN800I want a keyboard, I remember being blocked on the n800 when porting apps. 1st major criteria for me actually09:55
luke-jrStskeeps: it was just a chat earlier in #Mer ; I assumed you were asking because you read it09:55
acidjazzthere we go09:55
acidjazzfinally :)09:55
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Stskeepsluke-jr: well i meant linux-kernel or -omap09:55
StskeepsLuserN800: chances are that i will just get flamed to death really09:56
Stskeepsi should make a counter-post09:56
luke-jrStskeeps: oh, no, I don't recall where that one is09:56
Stskeeps"This is how free the N900 really is"09:56
luke-jrStskeeps: conclusion was that the kernel was behaving as it should, and the old behaviour was a bug09:56
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luke-jrIIRC, that conclusion came from Alan Cox who had fixed it in a rewrite of the pty subsystem09:57
luke-jrbut tbh, I consider that bug a non-issue at this point09:58
luke-jrgpsd includes a workaround anyway, and newer kernels have far more other issues blocking their use on N8x009:58
luke-jrso N8x0 as a platform is dead with 2.6.21 for practical purposes; fixing gpsdriver only makes sense if a new device uses the chip or Nokia bothers to get N8x0 mainlined10:00
luke-jror at least fixing that particular problem; the general "bad nvdata" thing could probably still be useful to have fixed10:00
luke-jrbut no idea where to start on that10:00
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acidjazzsetting up exchange w/ gmail10:02
acidjazzthis workin for everyone?10:02
acidjazzdont think ill be syncing contacts though10:02
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LuserN800with or without the backdoor? :)10:02
acidjazzwatcha mean?10:02
threshpassword syncer for n900 and firefox/chromium, anyone?10:03
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acidjazzthresh: does one exist?10:06
threshacidjazz: that's what i wonder.10:06
threshno lastpass for N900 :(10:06
LuserN800Stskeeps, for planet.d.o if they are only intersted in "is the n900 fully free" then well, it's lost. if people want to hack around, solutions are there. mer is an example, and you could present who it was done.. it's not like nothing can be done10:07
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infobotLuserN800 meant: Stskeeps, for planet.d.o if they are only intersted in "is the n900 fully free" then well, it's lost. if people want to hack around, solutions are there. mer is an example, and you could present how it was done.. it's not like nothing can be done10:07
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goodwilli wish it was possible to stop the camera from reacting to the camera key10:08
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LuserN800and also that help is needed in organizing, packaging, .. pushing nokia to free more things (hum..) ..10:08
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Wolfiegoodwill: there's some app that re-binds the camera button to some other function (i remember task manager). Naturally, I can't remember which app that was :)10:09
luke-jrIIRC, only BME is Nokia-controlled and non-Free as far as platform support goes10:09
luke-jrin N90010:09
SpeedEvilWolfie: camkeyd IIRC10:09
adeusor shortcutd10:10
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SpeedEvilWolfie: however - it only binds half-press10:10
goodwillWolfie: shortcutd ... but it does not rebind it10:10
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goodwillI am using it now ... but if the press is too long it triggers the camera10:10
goodwilland i want that to stop10:10
hrw|gonegoodwill: use zoom keys in xterm10:11
goodwillhrw|gone? thanks10:11
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goodwillhrw|gone: thanks10:12
Wolfiei think i meant camkeyd, actually (
hrwbtw - diesel engine and -19°C can be challenge10:12
Wolfiebut it mentions only a half-press, so it might not work for you either10:12
hrwWolfie: shortcutd is new camkeyd10:12
LuserN800or we could push ggil to post there rather than closed-discussion on tmo.. but he might get flamed yes..10:12
Wolfieokay, didn't know that10:13
acidjazzthresh: e-mail xmarks10:13
hrwWolfie: neither did I until 2 days ago10:13
acidjazzwhat if someone ports android to the n900 perfectly10:14
acidjazzwho here would use that instead10:14
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acidjazzoh look at this10:14
acidjazzcool idea (camkeyd)10:14
adeusare all other android devices with capacitive screens?10:15
SpeedEvilFor me - a solution to run android apps would be nice - but I'd never run it as primary.10:15
threshacidjazz: how do i import those after sending?10:16
acidjazzwatcha mean thresh10:16
* MohammadAG wonders if the music player can be modified and the side keyboard light (the R&D ones) could act as a UV meter10:16
acidjazzwe need an xmarks plugin for nokias browser10:16
threshacidjazz: "11:13:06 < acidjazz> thresh: e-mail xmarks"10:16
threshi thought it meant "you need to e-mail your xmarks stuff"10:16
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: the early models had a side keyboard light?10:17
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, all models do10:18
SpeedEvilThat would potentially explain some confusing comments in the driver10:18
MohammadAGtwo backlight to indicate system activity10:18
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode10:18
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MohammadAGto enable R&D mode10:18
SpeedEvilthere are 6 backlight LEDs in the keyb10:19
MohammadAGhave it enabled to test something10:19
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SpeedEvilI did a running-light effect way back for them - which was silly10:19
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, the UV thing would be possible right?10:20
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: err - no.10:20
MohammadAGsince the two backlights can be powered and flickered individually10:20
MohammadAGerr why?10:20
SpeedEvilBecause LEDs don't emit any UV10:20
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acidjazzexhcange synchronization w/ gmail isnt working for me10:20
acidjazzi just put as the server right?10:20
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, not that UV lol10:21
acidjazzany1 else here have mfe setup w/ gmail?10:21
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* SpeedEvil only knows UltraViolence as the other UV.10:21
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MohammadAGgot it wrong :/10:22
SpeedEvilyes - you could do that10:22
SpeedEvilsix backlights - not two10:22
MohammadAGwell,_I_ can't, still choosing a language10:23
TriztFromWorkhow do you get it to not light up all the time?10:23
MohammadAGbut two can be handled alone, and they are enough for a mini VU10:23
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SpeedEvilTriztFromWork: I haven't bothered to work out what normally controlls them - I suspect BME.10:23
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SpeedEvilYou'd need to find a way to tell it not to - otherwise it will fight you10:24
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* TriztFromWork nods10:25
TriztFromWorksadly not much time for that while at work, other projects sadly has higher priority10:25
acidjazzur guys' batterys lasting at all?10:25
TriztFromWork~18h with wifi on, but not too much other activity10:26
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TriztFromWorkacidjazz; I have been thinking about a Proporta USB TurboCharger 340010:26
acidjazzTriztFromWork: url10:27
SpeedEvilacidjazz: not had any problems - but I generally only don't have it plugged in for more than 12h10:27
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SpeedEvilacidjazz: unless bloody trackerd or thumbnailer decides to be ass-hatted.10:27
SpeedEvilWoke up with my n900 - under my pillow - quite warm indeed10:27
TriztFromWorkSpeedEvil; you sleep with yours all the time?10:28
SpeedEvilTriztFromWork: no. I was reading ebooks - and would have had to get out of bed to put it on charge10:29
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SpeedEvilUSB charge sucks.10:29
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, you sure the 6 light up when in normal (non-R&D mode)?10:29
* SpeedEvil wants a sane cradle10:29
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: ?10:29
MohammadAGthe 6 keyboard LEDs, do they all light up in non-R&D mode?10:30
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MohammadAG(or production mode as it's called)10:30
acidjazzTriztFromWork: is it big? does it charge it well?10:30
TriztFromWorkacidjazz; no, it's not big, slightly larger than the n900 I think and they claim it charges well on the n900 and iphone10:31
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TriztFromWorkI don't know more than it says on their homepage10:31
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yes - they are used for kbd backlight10:31
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acidjazzso you just gotta keep this charged TriztFromWork and roll around w/ it in your pocket as well heh10:31
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, so in R&D mode it chnages the brightness?10:31
MohammadAGcause they are brighter (the side LEDs) even when the whole keyboard is let10:32
ifreqTriztFromWork: been lookin this myself:
ifreqtho its a bit bigger :) (mostly for trips)10:32
TriztFromWorkifreq; do you know if it works with iphone or do you need a special usb cable?10:33
acidjazzthat looks large10:33
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: no - in normal mode10:34
acidjazzi guess it says itll charge the phone several times10:34
acidjazzthat 3400..10:34
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acidjazzthats pretty nice10:34
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, in normal mode, they're all lit at the same brightness10:34
MohammadAGi'm assuming it lights them up more in R&D mode10:35
ifreqacidjazz: it will charge n900 about 2 times (the 3400)10:35
ifreqacidjazz: the u20 is 13200 mAh battery unit10:35
acidjazzhow long will it take to charge it?10:35
SpeedEvilfor x in /sys/class/leds/*kb*;do echo 100 >$x/brightness;done10:35
acidjazzoh its 3400 mAh10:35
ifreqTriztFromWork: i think you can use iphone usb charge cable as it has usb plugin10:35
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: you can set the brightness10:35
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, for individual leds?10:36
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ifreqand yes U20 is big, didnt plan to carry it on my pocket atleast.10:36
SpeedEvilecho 100 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:kb1/brightness10:37
TriztFromWorkifreq; there are those chargers that don't work with iphone/n900 without you have a proper usb cable where the data pins are removed10:37
ifreqTriztFromWork: okay, thought i think it has quite regular usb port10:37
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TriztFromWorkifreq; so you know it works with iphone (then it would work with n900 too)?10:38
ifreqthink there is some device compliant list somewhere10:38
ifreqTriztFromWork: well i have not aquired such charger yet10:38
ifreqi try to find tech details10:38
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ifreqsolarpower is not yet the product i would buy10:42
* TriztFromWork has to continue to work10:42
ifreqTriztFromWork: anyways its on the list.10:42
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ifreqbeen lookin for good batterey backpack (lots of juice) and U20 is atm #1 on my list10:43
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acidjazzthat sucks10:49
acidjazzhow ghetto10:49
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SpeedEvilIs extras-devel failing to update for others?>10:55
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viqSpeedEvil: I had a problem couple hours ago, but something like 2-4h ago it worked11:02
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thorbjornDoes the N900 keep a log anywhere of apt-get activity?11:03
thorbjornMy root partition is full and I'm wondering what I did to fill it up.11:03
thorbjornSo that I may resolve this issue without having to start doing guesses...11:03
viqthorbjorn: 1) reboot, 2) diskusage app helps with that11:03
thorbjornviq: Reboot?11:04
threshSpeedEvil: works here..11:04
* fcrozat wonders if his n900 will do a 32swt reboot today..11:04
viqthorbjorn: yes, reboot clears up some space11:04
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thorbjornviq: Ah. Will try that, thanks.11:04
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jiajianow my n900 starts to restart automatically11:06
acidjazzhave you reset it?11:06
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acidjazzdid ou drop it?11:06
jiajiayeah i update it11:06
jiajiato the lastest version11:06
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JaffaMorning, all11:20
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bidossessii'm running maemo from the SDK on opensuse 11.2. I'm trying to run claws-mail, but my status is "offline". tried changing my status using the connection switcher applet, but no show. i'm still offline. any pointers welcome.11:26
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SpeedEvil'Carl Zeiss optics' as if that makes a difference when your lens is 1.8mm11:31
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thorbjornviq: Hmm, still 0 available after reboot.11:36
viqthorbjorn: check IIRC /var/apt/cache/partial or something like that11:37
bidossessiout of curiousity. i see ldap servers on the claws-mail addressbook section, but no way to add one. am i missing something?11:37
acidjazzSpeedEvil: its actually the best camera phone ive ever used11:37
SpeedEvilacidjazz: yes.11:38
thorbjornviq: 54 M in apt's cache...11:38
SpeedEvilacidjazz: though it shares the camera with several otehr nokias11:38
thorbjornviq: /var/cache/apt, btw.11:38
viqthorbjorn: partial, the files are apt's archive or something, you do want to keep those11:38
SpeedEvil N96, N85,N7911:38
SpeedEvilacidjazz: I'm just a bit irritated it doesn't get close to 5 optical megapixels. Not surprised - but...11:39
thorbjornviq: I have another 20 M in /var/lib/apt/lists, but only 0.5 M in /var/lib/apt/lists/partial.11:40
thorbjornviq: But what's the point of keeping 50 M of .deb files around?11:40
thorbjorn(they're mostly my Qt 4.6 from extras-devel, I guess)11:40
threshany good tweeter client? mauku seems to suck and not to support lists.11:40
viqthorbjorn: debs you can remove11:41
tybolltviq: you11:41
viqthorbjorn: some people like witter, I think11:41
tybolltviq: you're here now? Welcome (johan@)11:41
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viqoh, ahoy :)11:41
thorbjornviq: I'll do that then. Btw, tell thresh about witter. :)11:41
viqtybollt: I've been here for a long time, just mostly lurking (mostly actually not even paying attention) :P11:42
viqer, yes, tab monster strikes again ;P11:42
viqthorbjorn: some people like witter, I think11:42
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viqthresh: just look up, tab monster got me twice already ;P11:43
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thorbjornviq: It seems "apt-get clean" is a safe way of clearing some apt cache.11:44
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viqthorbjorn: quite possible ;)11:46
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tybolltacidjazz: I went to thailand last year... there was a  H U G E market for these types of gadgets :D11:46
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tybolltacidjazz: everyone sold what looked exactly like iphones... but had an os mostly looking like windows 3.1 ;)11:47
matmoanyone know to solution to "file format not recognized" when trying to link in scratchbox. I have checked the file/links and googled.11:47
bidossessii'm confused. i'm using a widget that shows my IP on the SDK. the app-manager is able to download and install packages from the internet. but i'm still marked as offline, so no IM, no xchat. what am i missing?11:48
hrwbidossessi: you added some IM accounts?11:48
hrwbidossessi: did you read n900 usermanual like I suggested?11:48
adeusthe n900 has a manual? :)11:49
bidossessihrw, yes. my corporate account. and i find no way to put myself online. except activating my wlan.11:49
bidossessihrw the manual references status-icons that don't appear in my SDK11:50
ifreqbeing online is only status for IM accounts11:50
ifreqit doesnt effect xchat etc..11:50
hrwbidossessi: 'fakeroot apt-get update;fakeroot apt-get upgrade' in sbox11:50
ifreqand you can enable the IM accounts via conversations menu11:51
bidossessiifreq the accounts are enabled, but i'm still marked as offline. however, if i remove and re-add one, i'm marked as online on that account.11:53
bidossessii have an xmpp account for our local xmpp server and a twitter account. the contatcts got listed in my contact list11:54
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acidjazztybollt: hilarious11:55
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bidossessiifreq, being online affects claws-mail, xchat, and conversations. and i cannot find how to tell the SDK that i have internet connectivity.11:57
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bidossessicuriously, it doesn't affect modest11:59
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bidossessixchat tells me: "ERROR: Could not initialize an internet connexion". Claws-mails fails to get my emails, saying I'm offline, but both the web browser and modest works just fine.12:03
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acidjazzlol if i create a calendar entry on my phone it breaks mfe sync w/ google12:08
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alteregoHah, I like the Joikuspot screenshot joke about the iPhone/Apple ^.^12:08
koala_manacidjazz: works for me, but only if I don't have any contacts with custom photos12:09
tybolltalterego: hmmm mfe can sync calendars w/ the google?12:09
* tybollt almost \o/'ed12:10
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koala_mantybollt: it can12:10
tybolltcan it sync the ovi calendar?12:11
tybolltmeh, why didn't anyone tell me :)12:11
acidjazzooh a whole vm image awesome12:11
acidjazzkoala_man: are you using mfe w/ google calendar and email?12:11
koala_manacidjazz: only calendar12:12
acidjazzkoala_man: im not even syncing contacts f that12:12
acidjazzcreate an even ton ur phone12:12
* tybollt been whining about no ovi calendar (think: the sync app) support and here it was available ol the time >:D12:12
acidjazzdo a manual sync12:12
acidjazzwont sync12:12
koala_manacidjazz: I think the bug triggers even when you don't sync contacts12:12
acidjazztybollt: what was available12:12
koala_manacidjazz: does it say that "Exchange server is not responding. Verify that account settings are correct."?12:13
acidjazzim wondering if this is actually the phones fault12:13
acidjazzkoala_man: yup12:13
acidjazzbut i removed the event12:13
acidjazzsynced fine12:13
acidjazzmight be google failing at trying to clone mfe12:15
fcrozatwell, it works fine if you delete all calendar items on n90012:15
adeusI just tried to edit an reoccurring event, it decided to delete it12:16
acidjazzyes fcrozat but im talking after12:16
acidjazzmeaning your phone calendar w/ this setup becomes read only12:17
fcrozatacidjazz: not really, but some actions are not recommended :)12:17
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fcrozatlike merging contacts12:17
acidjazzlol what are all these crappy videos on the ovi store12:17
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fcrozatI can add calendar events on both sides, it works fine12:17
tybolltacidjazz: < tybollt> can it sync the ovi calendar? < koala_man> yes12:17
tybolltacidjazz: appaears mfe can sync the ovi calendar12:18
tybolltacidjazz: which to me is pretty good news :)12:18
hrwI wonder when nokia will fix Ovi Contacts syncing to be working12:18
tybollthrw: exactly12:18
tybollthrw: I find that a very very irritating thing12:18
viqtybollt: I want to play with setting my own server, even started setting up zarafa, problem is that it installs uuid that conflicts with reconnoiter that I'm playing with on same box12:18
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acidjazzoh the ovi software you use12:19
hrwtybollt: last time when I synced my symbian phone -> ovi it dropped most of contacts details12:19
acidjazzfcrozat: what is your setup like?12:19
acidjazzit loves to duplicate all my contacts hrw12:19
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fcrozatacidjazz: google apps with contacts and calendar setup as MfE on n90012:19
hrwacidjazz: scheduleworld worked much much much better12:20
fcrozatduplicated contacts are from google talk account12:20
fcrozatand I know I shouldn't try to merge them for now12:20
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acidjazzfrade: google apps?12:21
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acidjazzfcrozat i mean12:21
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fcrozatacidjazz: it is just like gmail but for hosting my own domain ;)12:22
acidjazzgmail will host your own domain now12:22
acidjazzfcrozat: where did you learn to setup gmail on mfe12:22
fcrozatacidjazz: well, I used google "configuration" setup from their help page12:23
fcrozatwhich is similar to the one I used on s6012:23
fcrozatand then, I checked on talk.m.o for the "known" issues ;)12:23
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Mikhowould anyone know what's wrong with my PyQt4 installation: I type "python2.5" inside scratchbox, enter "from PyQt4.QtGui import QApplication" and get nothing but "ImportError: cannot import name QApplication". I've installed every python2.5-qt4 package I've found12:30
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n9000what command should i type inside   scratchbox to compile this code
bidossessiwhat package do the availability status indicators depend on?12:33
thorbjornIs it possible to get access to crash reports send for packages one has in extras-devel?12:33
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thorbjornI've installed sp-rich-core-postproc in an attempt to process them manually myself for now.12:41
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Mikhoif I write "dir(PyQt4.QtGui)" in python2.5, I get a list of symbols, but there are not a single symbol with name starting with 'Q', including QApplication12:44
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MikhoI try the same with another DIABLO_X68 target, and everything works properly12:44
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Mikhothis is very strange12:45
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* tekonivel happy to see old-time atc(6) on Maemo :) :) :)12:48
tekonivelcalled Airport Touch this time12:48
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thorbjornWhat is the recommended define to use for Maemo-specific code?12:58
thorbjornLike our project has already:12:58
thorbjorn#if defined(WIN32) || defined(__APPLE__)12:58
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thorbjornSeems defined(MAEMO) should work.13:00
timeless_mbpthorbjorn: so...13:00
timeless_mbpMAEMO is kinda problematic13:00
thorbjornThat's what it says here
timeless_mbpimagine hypothetically that your code can build against Gtk, HildonGtk, Qt, and Harmattan13:00
thorbjornThis project is using SDL.13:01
timeless_mbpwhat would 'maemo' do?13:01
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thorbjornCurrently I need to disable dynamic switching of windows/fullscreen for TMW, since this fails on Maemo.13:01
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timeless_mbpmozilla mostly uses ifdef MOZ_PLATFORM_HILDON13:02
timeless_mbpfor which we somehow define that13:02
timeless_mbpin networking, we look for libconic13:02
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timeless_mbpand for location we look for the geolocation thing13:02
thorbjornI guess that's a Mozilla specific define. Like Qt has QT_OS_MAEMO or something.13:02
timeless_mbpbut the point is that moz_platform_hildon would be gtk-hildon13:03
thorbjornI need either something provided by SDL, or by the compiler. :)13:03
timeless_mbpit would not be confused with Harmattan13:03
n9000what command should i type inside   scratchbox to compile this code
timeless_mbp'maemo' isn't really as monolithic as you want to think about it13:03
thorbjornI'm not at the moment trying to make a usable package for Harmattan.13:03
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timeless_mbpn9000: so, that's from 'FN'13:04
timeless_mbpif you have questions about FN content, please do ask FN.13:04
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timeless_mbp(FN= Forum Nokia)13:04
thorbjornI'm hoping the Harmattan TMW client can be a new Qt based one anyway.13:04
n9000timeless_mbp: ok13:05
timeless_mbpthe zip file ideally includes a Makefile, but if it doesn't, that's really a flaw in their content that they should fix13:05
thorbjornFor now I'd like to have the SDL based client work nicely on the N900.13:05
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timeless_mbpline 6404 -- dnl = Hildon and OSSO checks13:05
timeless_mbpline 6406 -- PKG_CHECK_MODULES(LIBHILDONMIME,libhildonmime,13:05
timeless_mbpline 6407 -- MOZ_PLATFORM_HILDON=1,13:05
timeless_mbpthat's how we figure out in configure if we're on hildon...13:06
thorbjornI guess PKG_CHECK_MODULES will also add linking to hildon, right?13:06
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ifreqcan i use headset plugin as line in?(via mic)13:07
timeless_mbpnote that exists too13:07
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (who manages led_kb0..6) check wiki/led_patterns. seems it's mce13:20
SpeedEvilnot quite13:21
SpeedEvilat least - tehre seems to be some kernel involvement13:21
SpeedEvilwhile true do echo 100 >kbled;done13:21
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I also freak out why they need a complete engine to control the brightness13:21
SpeedEvildoes not result in strace showing any response from mce13:22
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SpeedEvilIt's only 456K of RAM - hardly worth noticing :/13:23
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: why should mce trigger while you set the led directly? it fights you as soons as you press a key of hwkbd13:23
SpeedEvilI don't know13:23
SpeedEvilsomething is turning off hte LEDs though13:24
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ( while true do echo 100 >kbled;done) s/kbled/led_kb0/ ???13:25
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SpeedEvilI mean setting the brightness13:26
SpeedEvilthat's not the exact command - it's the idea13:26
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DocScrutinizermce uses engine3 and thus spoils all the brightness settings for 6 kbd led13:27
SpeedEvilI haven't looked at - and don't see how that works.13:27
DocScrutinizeronly when you press key, or when timeout expires13:28
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: echo load >engine3_mode; cat engine3_leds13:31
DocScrutinizerwill show you details how it works13:32
SpeedEvilI need to read over that.13:32
SpeedEvilToo much to do :/13:32
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: in engine3_leds all the 6 kbd leds are "1", the three RGB are "0"13:33
DocScrutinizerso engine3 program will change the PWM registers of all 6 kbd leds13:34
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DocScrutinizermce would have done better job by directly modifying the led_kb[0-5]/brightness13:35
SpeedEvilWell - it makes sense to offload it to hardware I suppose.13:36
DocScrutinizerbut some smart guy decided the use engine3 to ramp up/down the brightness during maybe 100ms13:36
SpeedEvilThe ramp brightness is a nice effect13:36
SpeedEvilbut it doesn't look like 100ms to me13:36
DocScrutinizerI never really cared to scrutinize that ramp effect13:37
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RurouniJonesAnyone tried installing kiten on their N900?13:38
DocScrutinizerI'd prefer to use all 3 engines for the 3 color LEDs13:38
SpeedEvilperhaps, yes.13:38
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: btw NationalSemi of course hasn't answered to my inquiry for LP5523 datasheet :-(13:43
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* DocScrutinizer curses big silicon and their policy to keep the full datasheets confidential becoming ever more common13:45
hrwdid someone here used modest 3.2.x?13:45
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DocScrutinizerwtf could be wrong with 5523 ds when next page they offer 5521 ds for dl?? :-S13:46
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* timeless_mbp misses lunch13:51
timeless_mbpi could call13:51
timeless_mbpsp3000: ping :)13:51
* hrw curses modest13:52
* GeneralAntilles sighs.13:53
GeneralAntillesStupid non-Maemo developers who don't make their UI fit the HIG.13:53
GeneralAntillesSomebody should abuse them.13:53
timeless_mbpsure that's a great ui13:54
WolfieGeneralAntilles: the documentations are awfully long. It's hard for a common coder to bother13:54
timeless_mbpi like "addtional [sic]13:55
timeless_mbpi guess they ran out of space? :)13:55
GeneralAntillesWolfie, it's really easy to copy what's built-in, though.13:55
WolfieGeneralAntilles: that's true.13:55
timeless_mbpbtwn "Addtional DNS servei [sic]" is also cute13:55
GeneralAntillesWolfie, somehow people coding for Apple platforms can manage to read theirs.13:55
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WolfieGeneralAntilles: that's because the cultures are very different between OSX and Linux, i believe13:56
GeneralAntillesWolfie, so are Symbian/Maemo/Windows/whatever developers just more lazy or do they take less pride in their work?13:56
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: will you tell them that spelling counts?13:56
GeneralAntillesWolfie, which is incredibly unfortunate.13:56
WolfieGeneralAntilles: again, agreed13:56
GeneralAntillesWolfie, as one thing Apple and its developerbase always get right is attention to detail.13:56
GeneralAntillesSygic is the one that's really got me irritated at the moment.13:56
WolfieGeneralAntilles: additionally, what i've heard, the iPhone SDK's GUI editor is childs play to use, and get great-looking UIs13:56
GeneralAntillesThey seem to have taken the Gate5 approach to making navigation software.13:56
Damion2it seems to follow the normal look and feel for the UI what's wrong with it ?13:57
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GeneralAntillesDamion2, weird graphics, Settings is improperly implemented.13:57
timeless_mbpDamion2: the speedometers are not Maemo ui13:57
timeless_mbpthe settings as i've already noted are bad13:57
Wolfieotoh, Maemo doesn't have a GUI editor, and your average developer is a code nerd - once the functionality is there, there's not much reason to break it by bothering with UI design :)13:57
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infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Damion2, weird graphics, Settings isn't improperly implemented.13:57
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timeless_mbpi didn't specifically mention it's using a maemo4- checkbox13:57
timeless_mbpbut it does13:57
Wolfiealso, your average coder is an awful graphical designer13:57
hrwbasically you do not have any UI builder with maemo5 support13:58
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GeneralAntilleshrw, somehow that doesn't stop OS X developers.13:58
Damion2I dunno, it looks like it has the same popup window style scrolling from the bottom up to select stuff etc13:58
hrwGeneralAntilles: to write for maemo5? :D13:58
WolfieGeneralAntilles: to be fair, there's a fair share of fugly osx software, too13:58
Damion2I'm not sure how they're doing nat, I guess a daemon like slirp or pnatd or they're just doing a proxy for http13:59
tybolltI think the jesusphones default layout is fugly... but then I'm probably a minority ;)13:59
GeneralAntillesWolfie, by and large, though, if you were to take a sample of 10 OS X applications, most of them would follow Apple's interface guidelines and generally look like they belong on the platform.13:59
GeneralAntillesThe same can't be said for many other platforms.13:59
GeneralAntillesWindows being the absolute worst.13:59
Shrik3windows + OEM software13:59
WolfieGeneralAntilles: sure, i'm not saying that. I'm just saying, that it's not impossible to get awful UIs13:59
hrwwindows ui in apps... nightmare13:59
GeneralAntilles(Does any platform have uglier compressed file handling software than Windows?)13:59
Wolfieand, honestly, MS Office for mac is fugly13:59
hrwmain source of ugly apps in my winxp install is nokia anyway14:00
Shrik3every single mouse driver, printer driver etc HAS to have an UI "designed" by some marketing drone14:00
GeneralAntillesWolfie, historically (I haven't used any particularly recent versions), it's always looked better than its Windows counterpart, though. ;)14:00
GeneralAntillesAnyway, as a long time Apple user, I find it frustrating that no other company is able to deliver that attention to detail in its user experience that Apple does.14:02
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: apple had style guides from beginning14:02
alteregoSo does Maemo ^.^14:03
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DocScrutinizermaemo is linux. linux not wellknown to have *any* styleguide for GUI14:03
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: w7's handling of zip's isn't bad14:03
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, and their own software (nearly) always follows it, they don't ship text that's riddled with typos and Finnglish and they generally put a lot of focus into the details.14:04
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, agreed, however you also have to deal with a lot of rar and (increasingly) 7zip.14:04
timeless_mbpoh brother14:04
sp3000timeless_mbp: pong?14:04
GeneralAntillesThe 3rd-party software for doing so is utterly atrocious.14:04
timeless_mbpsp3000: i was considering lunch14:04
Damion2dotblank: got an email ?14:04
timeless_mbpi've decided against it :)14:04
GeneralAntillesBy the way, sp3000, do you want a cloak?14:05
Damion2s/\([a-z]+\):/\/msg \1/14:05
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viqHow to make openvpn reconnect when changing between networks ?14:07
sp3000DocScrutinizer, really? istr there being guides forever for the major desktops14:07
seiflotfytrying to run "import glib" in a temirnal14:07
seiflotfyit tells me14:07
seiflotfyImportError: No module named pyglib14:08
seiflotfycan this be14:08
sp3000timeless_mbp: I was early anyway14:08
seiflotfyi mean i have python-gobject instelled14:08
DocScrutinizersp3000: afaik not the kind of stringent rigid styleguides we got for apple GUI since mac-II14:08
GeneralAntillesTomaszD, ping!14:08
mgedminsp3000, scratchbox or real device?14:08
mgedminsorry, xchat tab miscoompletion14:08
mgedminseiflotfy, scratchbox or real device?14:08
seiflotfyscratchbox mrmg14:09
mgedminseiflotfy, make sure you run 'python2.5' and not 'python'14:09
seiflotfymgedmin, scratchbox14:09
seiflotfyi am sure14:09
seiflotfymgedmin, python2.514:09
sp3000GeneralAntilles: mmh, dunno. I disklike declarations :)14:09
sp3000dislike even14:09
alteregoN900 goes back tomorrow.14:10
lizardoseiflotfy: works just fine here :...14:10
GeneralAntillessp3000, well, Maemo/community/contributor/sp3000 is less declarative.14:10
alteregoBetter finish at least one of the apps tonight :'(14:10
GeneralAntillessp3000, but just let me know if you do.14:10
lizardoseiflotfy: are you on Maemo 5 (fremantle) target ?14:10
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: did you cloak me?14:11
* mgedmin has no '' in his fremantle armel target...14:11
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, X-Fades' gotta bug somebody from Freenode about it.14:11
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, and he's still putting out fires, so. . . .14:11
timeless_mbpoh, yeah, don't distract him :)14:11
GeneralAntilleskloeri, unless I can con you into adding a few cloaks?14:11
seiflotfylizardo, yes14:11
lizardoseiflotfy: try running  "update-python-modules -f"  and tell me if it changes anything14:12
seiflotfylizardo, nothing14:12
seiflotfyi am using scratchbox not scratchbox214:12
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lizardoseiflotfy: yes, me too14:13
kloeriGeneralAntilles: hmm?14:13
* timeless_mbp really loves firefo14:13
timeless_mbpso much better than camino's urlbar14:13
seiflotfylizardo, its odd14:13
lizardoseiflotfy: are you sure it is complaining about "pyglib"?14:13
GeneralAntilleskloeri, I've got a queue of cloaks I'd like to add, but our contact is currently busy with other stuff.14:13
lizardoseiflotfy: and not just glib ?14:13
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kloeriGeneralAntilles: if it's project cloaks I need the request from the group contact14:13
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seiflotfylizardo, [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~/zeitgeist] > python2.514:14
seiflotfyPython 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Mar 16 2009, 16:36:21)14:14
seiflotfy[GCC 4.2.1] on linux214:14
seiflotfyType "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.14:14
seiflotfy>>> import glib14:14
seiflotfyTraceback (most recent call last):14:14
GeneralAntilleskloeri, yeah, so I figured. ;) Thanks!14:14
seiflotfy  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>14:14
seiflotfyImportError: No module named glib14:14
tybollttimeless_mbp: microb > firefox - surely?14:14
timeless_mbptybollt: on my mbp?14:14
lizardoseiflotfy: ok, use pastbin next time :)    so it is glib14:14
timeless_mbpsadly not ported14:14
lizardoseiflotfy: does /usr/share/pyshared/gtk-2.0/glib/   exist ?14:14
seiflotfylizardo, sorry14:14
tybolltsorry, didn't grasp you were talking about that14:14
timeless_mbptybollt: the 'camino' part is the only hint i gave14:14
timeless_mbpit's an OS X only browser which i had been using for a while14:15
tybollttimeless_mbp: though camino has the thumbnails, doesn't it?14:15
timeless_mbpbecause Firefox had an extension which would trigger a crash periodically while i was idle14:15
seiflotfygtk-2.0 does not exist14:15
timeless_mbpwhich is bad because even I have more than 5 web pages open concurrently14:15
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seiflotfylizardo, gtk-2.0 does not exist14:15
lizardoseiflotfy: on /usr/share/pyshared/ ?14:15
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lizardoseiflotfy: what "dpkg -l python-gobject"  returns ?14:16
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lizardoseiflotfy: hmmm, now I see yoy are using python 2.5.2 , which means you haven't enabled extras-devel :/14:18
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lizardoseiflotfy: you are actually using the few packages from the Maemo SDK, you should enable extras-devel on the target to use the latest python packages14:18
seiflotfylizardo, how do i do that?14:18
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tybolltI sure would like a browser that did thumbnails14:18
tybollton my N14:18
lizardoseiflotfy: add "deb fremantle free non-free"  to /etc/apt/sources.list14:19
lizardoseiflotfy: and run "apt-get update"14:19
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: any idea what's that strange effect. every once in a while I see the rendered page oscilating up and down a few pixels (~4Hz). When I scroll a little it vanishes14:19
timeless_mbpi know it14:19
timeless_mbpi don't remember what we decided14:19
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DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: btw seen same shit on desktop with evince or some other pdf viewer14:20
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lizardoseiflotfy: after that run "apt-get install python-runtime"  to get at least a basic updated Python environment14:20
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: maybe X ?14:20
seiflotfylizardo, i just did apt-get upgrade14:20
timeless_mbpit might have thought that there was a press that was moving up/down14:20
lizardoseiflotfy: should work too ;)14:20
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lizardoseiflotfy: after that , run "python2.5"  and check if it reports as version 2.5.414:21
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seiflotfylizardo, Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Nov 27 2009, 00:08:37)14:22
seiflotfystill now working though14:22
lizardoseiflotfy: what "dpkg -l python-gobject"  returns ?14:23
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seiflotfylizardo, it works now14:23
seiflotfyFile "/home/seif/zeitgeist/zeitgeist/../_zeitgeist/engine/", line 42, in _Constants14:23
seiflotfy    glib.get_user_data_dir()+"/zeitgeist")14:23
seiflotfyAttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'get_user_data_dir'14:23
seiflotfythis is some weird glib14:24
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lizardoseiflotfy: from the documentation:  "This function is available in PyGObject 2.18 and above."14:25
lizardoseiflotfy: Maemo 5 has 2.16.1  :/14:25
lizardoseiflotfy: see
seiflotfylizardo, u know anyway i can get the basedirectory14:26
seiflotfypyxdg is not supported14:26
lizardoseiflotfy: yes... you can replace that with a hardcoded path (something under /home/user maybe?)   good luck with the rest of your porting :)14:27
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tybolltappears putting your ovi mail in MFE does _not_ make it sync the ovi calendar - hmmm...14:32
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DocScrutinizerlizardo: hardcoded path?? o.O sounds nasty. I'd suggest ${HOME}/foo/bar or ${CWD}/foo/bar at very least14:37
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lizardoDocScrutinizer: "get_user_data_dir()" returns a hardcoded path actually, the suggestion is to provide a workaround as the function is missing on 2.1614:39
lizardoDocScrutinizer: when I say "under /home/user"  I mean a subdirectory under it of course ;)   if one wants to be policy compliant  ,  /home/user/.config/<appname>  is the best option14:40
DocScrutinizerwhat's with /home/JohnDoe/ user ??14:41
lizardoDocScrutinizer: there is only the "user" user in N900, it is the default one14:41
DocScrutinizeror root, for a more RL example14:41
DocScrutinizerlizardo: are you sure? have you seen Pr1.2? or my system setup?14:42
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mgedminlizardo, shouldn't one use XDG_CONFIG_DIR instead of hardcoding ~/.config?14:42
mgedminI meant XDG_CONFIG_HOME14:42
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lizardomgedmin: yes, it is an option :), is it available on Maemo ?14:43
mgedmingood question14:43
mgedminIIRC the spec says "use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME; if it's not set, fall back to ~/.config"14:43
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mgedminon maemo my environment only has $XDG_DATA_DIRS set (at least over ssh)14:44
hrw~curse nokia badly14:44
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia badly !14:44
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seiflotfylizardo, The following packages have unmet dependencies:14:47
seiflotfy  python2.5-dbus: Depends: python-dbus (= 0.83.0-1maemo1) but it is not going to be installed14:47
seiflotfyE: Broken packages14:47
seiflotfyhow do i check for broken packages14:47
edheldilseiflotfy:  here the problem is that for whatever reason,  python-dbus (= 0.83.0-1maemo1) is not installed and is not going to be14:48
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Damion2what is the hight of the screen when the top bar is there?14:49
seiflotfyedheldil, lol14:49
seiflotfyedheldil, that is all14:49
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lizardoseiflotfy: try installing "python-dbus"14:51
lizardoseiflotfy: and not "python2.5-dbus"14:51
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seiflotfylizardo, i have it14:51
lizardoseiflotfy: so where do you get that error ?14:52
seiflotfylizardo, in my program14:52
seiflotfyit quits with an exception14:52
lizardoseiflotfy: I don't get it , you are getting a dpkg error from your program?14:52
lizardoseiflotfy: which kind of program is that? :)14:53
seiflotfyno no14:53
seiflotfyi am trying to post my program to maemo14:53
seiflotfyyet i get dbus exceptions14:53
seiflotfyso i thought maybe its because i dont have python2.5-dbus14:53
lizardoseiflotfy: which kind of dbus errors are you getting ?14:53
lizardoseiflotfy: if you are testing under scratchbox, make sure you are on the X86 target (_not_ the ARMEL one)14:54
seiflotfylizardo, how do i check14:54
seiflotfyi am on x8614:55
lizardoseiflotfy: and that you have the Maemo UI started (start Xephyr + start) and that you run all your applications using python2.5 app14:55
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lizardoseiflotfy: from the error, most probably the dbus service your application expects is not started...14:55
zaheermseiflotfy, you porting zeitgeist to maemo?14:56
lizardoseiflotfy: do you have a N900 to try on it?14:56
seiflotfyzaheerm yes14:56
zaheermseiflotfy, awesome14:56
seiflotfylizardo, nope14:56
seiflotfylizardo, i applied for one14:56
zaheermseiflotfy, did you start your app with ?14:56
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lizardoseiflotfy: what it does exactly? :)14:56
seiflotfyzaheerm yes14:57
seiflotfylizardo, it logs ur activites and detects behaviour patterns14:57
seiflotfyon maemo we intend to do something really awesome14:57
seiflotfyi cant talk about it yet14:58
zaheermyou tracking location of where action happens? :)14:58
lizardoseiflotfy: google is not being kind with the word :)14:58
seiflotfylizardo, try gnome zeitgeist14:58
seiflotfyzaheerm yeah that too14:58
seiflotfyzaheerm where and whe nsomething happened14:58
seiflotfyso when u go to wokr14:58
seiflotfyzeitgeist then knows14:58
zaheerma mini cia on our hands...14:59
lardmanlcuk: why are you asking technical questions on TMO?14:59
seiflotfydue to ur previous activites u usually turn ur phone to silen when at work between the times of 8 and 514:59
seiflotfyso next time u get there14:59
seiflotfyit asks u14:59
seiflotfydo u want it to be silent ?14:59
seiflotfyzaheerm ^14:59
ifreqnetwork patterns14:59
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seiflotfythus we need it to run on maemo15:00
zaheermyah it sounds cool15:00
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seiflotfynow i just need to get it to run15:00
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zaheermseiflotfy, have you tried a simple app that just does sessionbus = dbus.SessionBus() ?15:01
lizardoseiflotfy: from your description, it is very possible that you might need a Nokia tablet to test things on... if it relies on DBUS, you need to have that services running15:01
lizardoseiflotfy: just my impression thought15:01
lizardoI didn't look at the code :)15:01
seiflotfylizardo, we need dbus15:01
zaheermlizardo, but scratchbox should be enough for him to get his app running nicely15:01
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zaheermlizardo, there is a dbus session and system bus running15:02
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edheldilrmoravcik:  hi, can I ask about ukeyboard?15:02
seiflotfyzaheerm, lizardo:
lizardozaheerm: yes... but for things like getting phone status he will need a device for sure :) from the error it is not clear whether the application is already trying to connect to a (non-running) DBUS service15:03
zaheermseiflotfy, try: python2.515:03
zaheermlizardo, the pastebin is clearly showing he is trying to create a session bus object15:03
lizardozaheerm: yes, no I see :)15:03
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seiflotfyzaheerm still failing15:04
lizardozaheerm: It was just not clear on the previous snippet :)15:04
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lizardoseiflotfy: do you have the Maemo UI started ?15:04
seiflotfylizardo, no15:05
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lizardoseiflotfy: you need it15:05
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zaheermseiflotfy, export DISPLAY=:2 ; start15:05
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zaheermassuming your Xephyr runs on display 215:05
seiflotfyITS RUNNING15:06
zaheermseiflotfy, great15:06
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seiflotfyI am off hakcing15:06
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lizardoseiflotfy: now you just need a device to do the rest :D (hope you get it soon)15:07
seiflotfydunno if i qulaify15:07
seiflotfyi applied though15:07
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GeneralAntillesdanielwilms, ping?15:19
tekojoGeneralAntilles do we have a r set on the channel again?15:20
GeneralAntillesdanielwilms, /msg nickserv register <password> <email>15:21
tekojodanielwilms isn't registered :)15:21
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GeneralAntillestekojo, well, one good thing about the spambots is that we're getting everybody registered. ;)15:21
anidelhi guys15:21
GeneralAntillesHowdy, anidel.15:21
anidelfine thanks.. how about you?15:22
GeneralAntillesanidel, being productive.15:23
anidellucky you15:24
koala_manhow do I save an attachment (image) from an email?15:24
GeneralAntillesGenerating karma and everything.15:24
GeneralAntilleskoala_man, tap'n'hold?15:24
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GeneralAntillesdanielwilms, OK, hopefully you're identified now. So, do you want an IRC cloak?15:24
koala_manGeneralAntilles: no luck15:25
danielwilmshey GeneralAntilles...yes, now I'm there15:25
GeneralAntilleskoala_man, how about tapping the image link at the bottom of the header?15:25
anidelhi Daniel15:25
danielwilmshi anidel15:25
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danielwilmsGeneralAntilles yeah, might be useful ;)15:26
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koala_manGeneralAntilles: what header?15:26
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GeneralAntilleskoala_man, OK, tapping the link in the header opens in in the image viewer. Then I can tap the menu and hit Save.15:26
GeneralAntilleskoala_man, the section at the top that lists To/From/time, etc.15:27
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GeneralAntillesdanielwilms, since I have no idea what your real job title resembles, come up with something that fits the format of Maemo/<position>/15:28
koala_manI don't have a link there, in the standard N900 email reader15:28
GeneralAntillesdanielwilms, tekojo has got /Maemo/, I just gave a bunch of /Maemo/uxdesigner/<nick> to the UX people, and konttori has got /Maemo/OS/konttori.15:28
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GeneralAntilleskoala_man, one sec.15:28
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anidelkoala_man, click on the attachment and it'll download the first time.. click again and it'll ask you if you want to save it or open it. As far as I remember it works like that.15:29
tekojo/Maemo/OS/konttori sounds impressive, but he does deserve it15:29
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: koala_man: there's a 'bug' in mailer not to show attachments in certain subsections of a multipart/mixed msg15:29
danielwilmsGeneralAntilles: ok...then let's take Maemo/
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GeneralAntillestekojo, hey, man, if you want a more impressive cloak, it'll be $20 USD. :P15:30
GeneralAntillesdanielwilms, OK, noted.15:30
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tekonivelkonttori means "the/an office" in finnish btw15:30
GeneralAntillesdanielwilms, I'll get X-Fade to add you after he's done firefighting.15:30
koala_mananidel: nothing happens when I tap the image15:30
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danielwilmsGeneralAntilles thanks :)15:31
tekonivelor "buro"15:31
tekojoGeneralAntilles only € notes in my pocket :(15:31
GeneralAntillestekojo, too bad. ;)15:31
anidelkoala_man, the image? or the image file name just below the To/From whatever section?15:31
koala_mananidel: there is no image filename there15:31
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anidelkoala_man, is this Modest ? you want to save an image that you see in an e-mail?15:32
* GeneralAntilles needs to figure out how to get the wiki to sync up to a couple of text files on his desktop.15:32
anidelkoala_man, I don't recall Modest showing image attachments, if you see the image displayed than probably is an HTML e-mail with an image link in it15:32
koala_mananidel: I have no idea what it's called, the icon and title bar just says "E-mail"15:33
anidelkonttori reminds me of a Studio Ghibli movie...15:33
GeneralAntillesMy Neighbor Totoro?15:33
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anidelyep.. I mean in general. It's a Ghibli-like name :)15:33
anidelkoala_man, that's Modest, indeed.. but it never shows attached images.. so again.. do you SEE the image ?15:34
koala_mananidel: yes15:34
anidelkoala_man, so it is NOT an attachment15:34
anidelkoala_man, it's an HTML mail showing the image.. not sure it allows you to save it15:35
anidelkoala_man, I sent two images ealier today and E-Mail shows them to me as "Attachment: <filename>.jpg"...15:35
koala_mananidel: it's a plain text email with an image attachment15:35
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koala_manwell, there is apparently an html component to the mail as well, but the image is very much attached15:36
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anidelkoala_man, I might be wrong.. but I have never seen Modest showing attached images to me unless they were part of an HTML.. ether way... if I tap on the image FILENAME than it shows it to me15:36
anidelbut if it shows it.. no idea how to save it15:36
anidelif I keep the finger pressed on the image is shows a contextual menu with "Save target as".. does it happen to you as well?15:38
anidel(I tested right now on an easyjet e-mail)15:38
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anidelGeneralAntilles, I do have the cloak already, don't I ?15:40
GeneralAntillesanidel, hrm, you're on the list.15:40
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GeneralAntillesanidel, but I don't see it on your account.15:40
GeneralAntillesanidel, check memoserv?15:40
anidelI think I did msg memoserv.. something specific in the msg?15:41
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anidelI need to msg PriceChild :D15:42
anidelI think I sent it to memoserv at the time.. ops15:42
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anideldoes "PriceChild" exist?15:42
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GeneralAntillesanidel, according to nickserv, not sure if they're online.15:44
anidelwhois doesn't show that account15:44
anidelbut /msg didn't complain15:44
GeneralAntillesMay not be online.15:45
anidelthinks o15:45
GeneralAntillesanidel, might ping #freenode15:45
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koala_mananidel: I can send you a test image by mail that shows the problem for me if you want15:49
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hrwhow to get Skype->Skype calls working? All I got was "connection with internet required" but I am on wifi and logged into skype account...16:04
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hrwsame for skype->skype chat16:04
floriansounds like a bug16:04
LantiziaDoes anyone know what app is in this pic?
floriani even attended skype conferences with the n90016:05
LantiziaI don't think it's Ovi Maps - something else16:05
GeneralAntillesLantizia, Sygic.16:05
hrwit is16:05
hrwflorian: I know what is wrong even16:05
LantiziaGeneralAntilles: any good?16:05
GeneralAntillesLantizia, not released.16:05
GeneralAntillesLantizia, their screenshots haven't left me impressed, however.16:05
GeneralAntillesLantizia, looks like a rough port of the Symbian UI.16:05
Lantiziame too :)16:05
threshstill better than ovi16:05
Lantiziathe article the image was in wasn't even about the maps thing16:05
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LynoureLantizia: looks like a 3D model of a N900 instead of the real thing...16:06
LynoureLantizia: no screen toggle switch, thinner than the real thing...16:07
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tybolltso sygic is why nokia won't get us t-by-t ovi m on the 90016:08
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SpeedEvilThe proximity sensor is there.16:09
hrwflorian: it appears when you try to call/chat to offline contact16:10
SpeedEvilLynoure: also - if you hold the n900 at just that angle - the switch dissapears16:10
SpeedEvilLynoure: and looks like a black void - which is in the image16:10
hrwGeneralAntilles: sygic maps follows tomtom navigation16:10
hrwGeneralAntilles: and tomtom navi UI on any device is best possible16:10
LynoureSpeedEvil: I still suspect it being an early concept pic... which would explan the wrong map app16:11
GeneralAntilleshrw, it needs to follow Maemo's UI guidelines.16:11
GeneralAntilleshrw, having the back button on the bottom of the screen wastes space16:11
florianhrw: ok in this case this is a user interaction problem16:11
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GeneralAntillesLynoure, the switch is there.16:12
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hrwflorian: it should tell user that second user is not available by this method16:14
hrwGeneralAntilles: you used navigation during driving car?16:14
GeneralAntilleshrw, several different ones, yes.16:15
GeneralAntillesWhich kind?16:15
anidelkoala_man, yup.. confirmed.. that kind of attachment can't be saved with Modest.. bug ?16:15
koala_manfeature request at least16:16
hrwGeneralAntilles: I have tomtom v3 and searching for small back button is not what I would like to do16:16
GeneralAntilleshrw, erm, the Maemo back button is small? . . .16:17
GeneralAntillesAnyway, whatever, I don't really care.16:17
koala_mananidel: DocScrutinizer mentioned something about attachments in certain sections not being shown16:17
florianhrw: yes indeed16:17
GeneralAntillesI'm just a firm believer in integrated UIs.16:17
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anidelkoala_man, even gmail doesn't really allow me to save that image.. I think it's seen as PART of the e-mail rather than an "attachment"16:18
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anidelkoala_man, it comes like this: <img width=246 height=93 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01CA9E9A.0059FC90">16:20
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koala_maninlined attachment16:20
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hrwbug #854916:24
povbot`Bug Skype call/chat to offline contacts ends with wrong text note16:24
tybollt"wrong text note"?16:25
Disconnectits a C sharp, it should be an A flat16:25
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hrwtybollt: notification message?16:27
wazdhello maemo16:27
LynoureLantizia: actually...
LynoureLantizia: seems already available on http://www.sygic.com16:30
Lynoureoh, just "coming soon" there too.16:31
GeneralAntillesLynoure, think it's waiting on the Ovi Store "Hey, let's apt-get some paid shit!" fix.16:31
hrwGeneralAntilles: ops. I watched movie. you have right16:32
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tybollt<nokia> Hi user - pay a prermium for our most advanced phone yet and we'll make sure it will be the only nokia phone where turn-by-turn costs you money!16:33
tybollts,user,customer, but whatever...16:33
hrwI wonder how much will sygic costs and how much for regions as I need two of them16:34
GeneralAntillestybollt, management just isn't behind this platform.16:34
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anidelOvi Maps on the N900 I think it's a completely different product than Ovi Maps on Symbian16:34
tybolltGeneralAntilles: don't get me wrong... I love my device, I'm just ranting :)16:34
wazdany MADDE devs in here? :)16:34
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hrwanidel: it is16:34
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anidelso it make sense it has different , how it's called?, .. path than the Symbian one?16:35
toggles_wwazd: can't download it16:35
hrwanidel: development path? rather other then s60 one yes16:35
anidelFree Nav for sure boiled internally for Ovi Maps for sometime now.. and Ovi Maps for the N900 just became.. stable..16:36
anidelhrw: yes16:36
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GeneralAntillesanidel, stable . . . ha.16:36
anidelGeneralAntilles, :) you know what I mean :) Win7 is not stable.. but it's the "stable release" out there :p16:36
GeneralAntillesanidel, I love watching Microsoft try to copy Apple's eyecandy.16:37
GeneralAntillesand people call OS X fruity. . . .16:37
anidelmy point is that yes I am sad I don't have free nav on the N900 .. but I do understand it takes time to develop that into Ovi Maps for N900, time and money.. and I am not sure how many devs are allocated to it16:37
anidelGeneralAntilles, Microsoft needs EyeCandy :)16:37
Milo-anidel they could open source the maemo ovi maps and let community help16:38
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GeneralAntillesanidel, somebody should launge corpses at Gate516:38
anidelMilo-: I WISH :) but they will never do it16:38
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GeneralAntillesMilo-, I don't think it'd help.16:39
Milo-well, they open sourced symbian, bought qt and kept it open16:39
GeneralAntillesMilo-, I can only imagine how horrifying that codebase16:39
anidelMilo: also it's "free", but to have it, you need a Nokia phone :)16:39
GeneralAntillesBesides, it's a differentiation point.16:39
Milo-GeneralAntilles some group could see where it lost its potential16:39
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Milo-and just use the necessary parts and improve ovi maps16:40
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Milo-I am pretty sure there are those people who would be willing to help16:40
GeneralAntillesMilo-, besides, the UI is mostly JS shit.16:40
hrwto tell the truth I prefer to keep ovi maps closed and developed by nokia16:40
GeneralAntillesMilo-, better to start from scratch.16:40
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hrwone place to curse at16:40
Milo-the maps catalogue is impressive16:41
VDVsxcan someone tell me which group belongs MyDocs folder in your n900 ?16:41
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GeneralAntilleshrw, problem is, it isn't even developed by Nokia.16:41
Milo-nokia has impressive map database16:41
anidelVDVsx, "group"? Unix group?16:41
hrwGeneralAntilles: it is (C) by nokia so for me it is by nokia16:41
VDVsxanidel, yes, like users or root16:41
anidelroot's the group16:41
Milo-user is the loser16:42
GeneralAntilleshrw, blame Gate5.16:42
GeneralAntilleshrw, all the fail comes from over there.16:42
hrwGeneralAntilles: how it is solved inside of nokia is their thing16:42
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VDVsxanidel, thanks :)16:42
anidelVDVsx, np16:42
GeneralAntilleshrw, I don't know why Nokia doesn't just bitch slap them into behaving.16:42
hrwGeneralAntilles: "Gate5 offers mapping and location based services for mobile devices. The company was acquired by Nokia in 2006." so gate5 == nokia16:42
tybollthrw: I prefer not being offered to buy turn-by-turn when nokia tells the world "IT'S FREE FOR ALL NOKIAS DEVICES"16:43
Milo-yeah funny how nokia "forgot" about their latest device16:43
RST38hWhat device was the latest?16:43
El_Angelowhat is the new update?16:43
hrwtybollt: sure, but n900 will be forgotten by nokia in q3 of 2010 (or any such timeline) when next maemo device will appear16:44
tybolltanyway there's a TOMTOM in my car so I shouldn't care - probably :)16:44
Milo-well I was referring to n90016:44
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anidelhrw, of course.. after all it's just to showcase Maemo16:44
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GeneralAntilleshrw, I'd really like to administer some physical abuse to the marketing idiot who decided capacitive was justification for not shipping Maemo 6 to the N900.16:45
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anidelat least they play nicer than Google, Microsoft, Palm  and Apple :)16:45
anidelGeneralAntilles, also for actually switching to capacitive ...16:45
GeneralAntillesanidel, that too.16:45
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hrwanidel: maemo5 got released with information that maemo6 is what nokia works on and that it will use Qt instead of GTK+ so dear developers please stfu and decide will you go to qt 4.5 not supported by nokia but installed on device or to qt 4.6 which is officially developed but not available for users etc16:45
El_Angelowhat is the new update?16:46
GeneralAntillesanidel, I feel like I really should've booed at BCN.16:46
anidelGeneralAntilles, at least.. theirs seem to work fine for handwriting.. the X6 supports China handwriting and it's capacitive16:46
anidelGeneralAntilles, :)16:46
RST38hOh, could someone, anyone, please make an N900 theme like this one:
GeneralAntilleshrw, PR1.2 should have Qt4.6 anyway.16:46
tybolltGeneralAntilles: Is no m6 for n900 set in stone? It's final?16:46
GeneralAntillesRST38h, steampunk'd be fun.16:46
anidelhrw, today I wrote my first two Qt apps ... :/16:46
GeneralAntillestybollt, as far as I can tell.16:46
El_Angelo15:46     anidel | GeneralAntilles, :)16:46
jkimball4if you're complaining about the touchscreen on n900, you've clearly not used it because it's really pretty good16:47
hrwanidel: I wrote one some time ago16:47
anidelEl_Angelo, you mean .. both :)16:47
tybolltGeneralAntilles: nokia is working hard to alienate the users?16:47
GeneralAntillestybollt, but the closed thing to an official stance on the issue was basically an offhand comment at BCN.16:47
RST38hGeneral: Would be mighty cool, if applied with style and restraint16:47
anideljkimball4, the opposite :) we love it16:47
El_Angeloanidel: was a paste fuckup16:47
tybolltGeneralAntilles: ugh16:47
jkimball4anidel: thought so :)16:47
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: tybollt, but the closest thing to an official stance on the issue was basically an offhand comment at BCN.16:47
hrwGeneralAntilles: cool. too bad that 4.5->4.6 require rebuilding of all apps16:47
jkimball4i enetered at wrong time perhaps16:47
jkimball4i thought it'd be crap based on a similar screen technology on a samsung i messed with.16:48
anideljkimball4, no worries16:48
jkimball4far superior on nokia16:48
Milo-El_Angelo I don't see an update16:48
GeneralAntillesjkimball4, sadly most of the people who insist capacitive is superior only ever get to use really awful resistive screens.16:48
tybolltyes indeed16:49
GeneralAntillesjkimball4, there isn't a lot of variability in capacitive, which leads people to the wrong conclusions.16:49
tybolltthe n900 is a very very nice resistive screen16:49
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anidelGeneralAntilles, a friend of mine has his Pre for a few months now.. he recently got an N900 and commented "horrible resistive screen" :( they get used to it.. and complain16:49
jkimball4GeneralAntilles: or only used an iphone and think it was sent from jesus16:49
Milo-capacitive is superior because apple's marketing team says so16:49
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jkimball4you know.. the kind who thin kthey know tech because they have some gagdet that someone told them was good16:49
Milo-and since apple is a fruit, it must be true16:50
anidelthe worst thing with capacitive is that it seems: capacitive = no physical keyboard16:50
Milo-thinks the idiots16:50
tybolltmilo: because Steve Jobs said so16:50
tybolltand also16:50
tybolltthe jesus-crowd all do and buy whatever that man tells them to16:50
anidelso hopefully the Maemo 6 device AT LEAST should have a keyboard..16:50
tybolltif Jobs were to release "I-turd - buy my poo" they would.16:50
Arkenoibut not the next one, i think16:50
MohammadAGbecause it has an i in it, and ppl think 'i never lie' :p16:50
El_AngeloMilo-: i just got a mail that there is an update16:51
Milo-from who?16:51
anideloh an btw, tomorrow will stfu all of us with their next creation.. yeah yeah16:51
El_Angeloi don't feel like installing it without knowing what it has16:51
MohammadAGlate pr1.1 fail maybe?16:51
El_Angelofrom nokia16:51
Milo-dated today?16:51
* RST38h moos at arkenoi16:51
Milo-sure it is not fake?16:51
El_Angeloso... 42 minutes ago16:51
Milo-or maybe it is by Mokia16:52
El_Angeloit looks genuine16:52
anidelEl_Angelo, may be it's one of those e-mail you get when register to these "Be the first to know" (that you are the last to know)16:52
El_Angeloit's the same mail address as the previous update16:52
tybolltI got the "there's an update" mail yesterday - for my E75! :P16:52
anidele-mail thingy16:52
mtnbkrone of the best MAD-TV skits ever was the Steve jobs product release of the irack  hillarious. 'specially if one has little love of Jobs/Apple or Bush's Policies. Or all compbined.   Wonder if it is on youtube...16:52
anidelbut updated.. for what? :)16:52
El_Angeloyeah well... i registered my device... not sure if that was wise16:52
El_Angeloi'll just wait a bit with updating16:52
tybolltEl_Angelo: paste the mail into pastebin and hand us the link16:53
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El_Angelotybollt: it's in dutch16:53
El_Angelois that ok?16:53
Milo-ah, it must be fake then16:53
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Milo-made up mail in made up language16:53
GeneralAntillesanidel, it's call "iPhone finger"16:53
GeneralAntillesanidel, when you're used to resistive and you use capacitive, that's "reverse iPhone finger"16:54
anidelGeneralAntilles, ah so there's been someone who studied that :)16:55
GeneralAntillesmtnbkr, that one was pretty weak, have you seen the Onion one?16:55
El_Angeloa bit too vague16:55
mgedminandre__, seen yet?16:56
mtnbkrGeneralAntilles: weak? Aw man, I loved that iRack skit...:)16:56
andre__mgedmin, nope. thanks16:57
anidelmgedmin, wow 21 mins16:57
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GeneralAntillesOh, man, I love the Onion.17:00
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mtnbkrGeneralAntilles: that video won't load/play on my firefox on 64-bit Linux :(17:01
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mtnbkrcan't view anything on the onion... :(17:02
GeneralAntillesmtnbkr, think a lot of it is on YouTube.17:02
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GeneralAntillesmgedmin, man, I really hate trying to get information through video.17:04
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mgedminGeneralAntilles, me too, and that's why I browsed the slides and skipped the video17:05
anidelmgedmin, :) me too..17:05
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Damion2mtnbkr: I've had no issues on the 64bit flash .so in the past but using the latest 32bit under the wrapper is also working17:06
TomaszDfiferboy, around?17:06
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fiferboyTomaszD: Here17:07
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TomaszDfiferboy, how's your transifex work going? I see some progress, but still not there :)17:07
fiferboyTomaszD: I have the initial traslation stuff in place.17:08
GeneralAntillesAh, TomaszD.17:08
GeneralAntillesDo you want a cloak?17:08
fiferboyI am making some changes to some of the string, then I will update them on transifex and ask for contributers17:08
TomaszDGeneralAntilles, sure.17:08
GeneralAntillesTomaszD, OK, will get X-Fade to add you in the next round.17:08
TomaszDfiferboy, right, because now submissions are disallowed :)17:08
TomaszDGeneralAntilles, thanks :)17:09
fiferboyTomaszD: Ah, I guess I have to somehow allow submissions as well :D17:09
fiferboyI hope to be ready by weeks end to get user submissions17:09
TomaszDfiferboy, yes, preferably not free-for-all :)17:09
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fiferboyTomaszD: You mean for contributors?17:10
TomaszDfiferboy, yes, don't do that, you have the option to allow those who click on the "Request ..." something, I don't remember what, permissions I guess17:11
fiferboyTomaszD: Okay, I will set it up like conny did for conboy17:11
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TomaszDfiferboy, ok17:11
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dprosupercollider now running on maemo ... yippieeee17:13
Corsacis that the software running the LHC?17:13
dproCorsac: hehe, nope
dprocomputermusic swiss army knife17:14
dproso it's kind of swiss ;)17:14
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GeneralAntillesmgedmin, interesting.17:17
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jiajiamy n900 restarts sometimes what is the problem can anyone tell , i did power saving couple days ago , but i canceled it ,why it still does it17:21
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Damion2there is a file you can examine which explains the reason for the last reset17:23
jiajiawhich file sir17:24
Damion2let me google that for you17:24
jiajiai tried google couldn't find17:24
jiajiathanks if u do17:24
Damion2cat /proc/bootreason17:25
jiajiathanks i am reading17:25
Damion2you can also use cuil.com17:25
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jiajiathanks a lot , i will try to fix it ,17:25
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tank-manDamion2, so your choice of search engine is bing? :)17:27
Damion2well in a terminal that command "cat /proc/bootreason" will say what happened last17:27
Damion2tank-man: I use them all, I liked altavista at uni17:27
Damion2normally I use google17:27
Damion2talking of google, I'm going to upload a video of google maps on the n90017:30
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alteregoAny side effects expected by settings the 'user' user's password?17:55
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alteregoI've just had another killer application idea.17:59
alteregoGod-damnit, I need a device :(17:59
Damion2give me a google login and I'll permit view17:59
hcarregaload ""17:59
tybolltalterego: Reformating your device using ReiserFS?17:59
alteregoThat'll kill something :P17:59
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tybolltehr, it olready killed something AFAIK18:00
Damion2hcarrega: okay18:00
alteregoVery funny :P18:00
Damion2hcarrega: I couldn;'t work that out18:01
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tybolltalterego: you going to spill your killer idea then?18:01
* tybollt curious now :)18:02
Damion2hcarrega: huh, okay I'll make it public for a mo18:02
hcarregaok sir18:02
alteregoI think I'll keep it quite until I get it under way, which probably wont happen until I manage to some how wrangle a device as the loaner I got from my brother is going back to him tomorrow or the day after.18:03
alteregoSo I realy need to complete the Call Blocking app first ;)18:03
GeneralAntillesalterego, quite being such a cheapskate. :D18:05
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: alterego, quit being such a cheapskate. :D18:05
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alteregoBy killer, I don't mean, hundreds of iPhone users are going to drop their iphones and get an N900, it's not a marketting application. It's an extension/application that I think all existing users will quite like.18:05
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alteregoAlright, I'll spill. You know most modern Nseries camera applications can take a"burst" of pictures. Well, my idea is to implement that and then stich them together to generate your own panoramic home backgrounds.18:08
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lardmanhas been talked about on TMO iirc18:08
slonopotamusalterego, boring...18:08
alteregoI just looked out the window and thought, wow, that sunset looks really nice, I wished I could do it.18:08
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lardmanwhat I need is to sort out some super-res stuff for low quality images18:08
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alteregolardman: cool, so, someone else is doing it? :)18:09
lardmanalterego: no idea if they actually started anything18:09
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alteregoslonopotamus: well, I guess I was wrong with my asssumption of "everybody" then ^.^18:09
lardmanalterego: but there are a couple of threads about photography on TMO, and that was mentioned iirc18:09
lardmanwell on-device and on-PC are different matters too18:10
alteregolardman: yeah, I guess it's a pretty, erm, easy assertion when talking about the camera and comparing features against other Nseries devices.18:10
lardmanif it were on device I'm sure people would give it a go18:10
alteregoYeah, it is on device.18:10
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alteregoBasically, a) start app. b) press camera shot button. c) move around (180 degress?) or so. d) then the app generates the seamless backgrounds.18:11
alteregoOR complains that your pictures are shit and asks you to do it again ^.^18:11
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Kegetysfor handheld no-hassle panoramas I doubt the stitching would be very smooth, and at least I would then rather just have separate pictures on the desktops with seams visible when switching desktops than poorly stitched pictures visible all the time18:11
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lardmanbetter to have an overlay with the edge of the last shot so you know how far to go18:12
alteregoSure, but without giving it a go, how can we know how effective it'd be?18:12
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alteregolardman: good idea.18:12
lardmanKegetys: why do you doubt it can be done?18:12
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alteregoWith lardman's solution, you should be able to get them pretty perfect.18:13
KegetysI dont doubt it can be done, I just think it would be very difficult to actually make it look good18:13
lardmanor rather doubt it can be done quickly enough to make it useful?18:13
alteregoWhat's the resolution of video?18:13
SpeedEvilcan be18:14
alteregoWell, sorted then ^.^18:14
Kegetysplus the camera is not that good, you'd need to somehow expose all the pictures with the same settings which for typical lanscapes is going to be a problem with the poor quality sensor18:14
lardmanalterego: no point in using video really, that's quite blurry18:14
SpeedEvilindividual frames are moderately blurred if you are moving round18:14
alteregoI like your suggestion though lardman I think that's how I'd do it, and you'd really only need to take five pictures to get enough of the scene.18:14
lardmanKegetys: that's where the interest lies though, sorting out the image manipulation stuff ;)18:15
villagerit seems to me the camera can grab many frames per second at 2592x196818:15
alteregoI can't work out whether Kegetys really thinks it's an awful idea or whether he's just playing devil's advocate ^.^18:16
lardmanI think the quality of the images you produce will not be great without spending significant amounts of time on the code and logic18:16
Kegetysits not an awful idea, just I think getting good results with it would be very difficult, for both the implementation of the tool doing it and for the person taking the pictures18:17
alteregoI kind of just want to knock up a prototype to see how well it'll do without too much fiddling.18:17
lardmango for it :)18:17
alteregov2 can have better processing and stuff.18:17
lardmanthough do try Hugin linked above18:17
SpeedEvilvillager: I question many18:17
SpeedEvilvillager: where are the frames going to go?18:18
villagerSpeedEvil: didn't say they were saved anywhere18:18
villagerSpeedEvil: I just show them on the display18:18
Kegetyseven when using a DSLR and "high end" stitching software on a desktop it can be difficult to get good results18:18
ph1lyes! i've done it: bootchar18:18
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dproI'm thinking of visiting my parents w/o internets is there an easy way to do interwebs-3g-n900-nat-wifi-laptop ?18:18
SpeedEvilvillager: that means scaling though18:18
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SpeedEvildpro: not easily18:18
dproI mean does the kernel support all necessary things for that ?18:18
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alteregodpro: don't you have the USB cable for tehthering?18:19
SpeedEvildpro: yes - but the supporting stuff isn't there.18:19
SpeedEvildpro: you don't have iwconfig18:19
SpeedEviloh - USB tethering would work, yes18:19
lardmanI really fancy a beer18:19
dproah ok that's fine with me too18:19
alteregoIt's actually how I asccess the internet at home ;)18:19
villagerSpeedEvil: if done on the cpu instead of the gpu then yes it would slow it down a bit, but I still get many frames per second18:19
dprobut I guess I'll build wireless-tools then18:19
ph1lhere's a bootchart of a mostly vanilla N900-51-1:
SpeedEvildpro: that would be good18:20
alteregoThe grewat thing is, the N900 stays connected even when it's tethered to a computer. Unlike every other phone I've used.18:20
SpeedEvilph1l: changes since last time?18:20
Stskeepsph1l: cool18:20
andresSpeedEvil: tethering via bluetooth seems to work for me as well18:20
* dpro puts wireless-tools on the TODO list18:20
SpeedEvilalterego: annoyingly not if that's over wifi tho18:20
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alteregoSpeedEvil: sure, but you can't tehther wifi.18:20
Stskeepsph1l: you should get that for mmc disk throughput too18:20
ph1lSpeedEvil, looks slightly different :-)18:20
dproon another note -  any obvious gcc flags I should use on arm to optimize my supercollider port a little more ?18:20
alteregoWell, you can, but you can't realy :P18:20
SpeedEvilalterego: why not?18:21
tybolltdpro: LHC in the n900?18:21
ph1lStskeeps, you meen when booting from mmc18:21
Scummerhmm.. adding the recaller widget does not show on the desktop... anyone else having the same problem ?18:21
SpeedEvilalterego: I was wanting to do a ssh DBUS proxy on the n900over wifi18:21
dprotybollt: duh ... not again ;) it's
SpeedEvilalterego: err - SOCKS18:21
dproworks, beeps, eats 90% cpu with a couple of synths playing ...18:22
dproI'd really love to know how to get realtime scheduling going for jackd & supercollider18:22
SpeedEvilph1l: is it possible to get 'disk' working?18:22
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alteregoHow I've been playing with the N900 at home: N900 connected to 3.5G tethered to my laptop (using PC Suite Mode) which also enables usb0 network interface, so I use that too SSH from my laptop to the N900.18:22
alteregoI seem to get issues with adhoc wife between my laptop and N900, it stalls horrifically.18:23
tybolltdpro: c'mon I had to joke about that :D18:23
SpeedEvilph1l: I also wonder how much of that CPU is eaten by compression18:23
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ph1lSpeedEvil, probably with custom kernel... i'll have a look this evening...18:23
dprotybollt: granted :), just seem to have heard it before ;)18:23
ph1lSpeedEvil, and how much CPU for encryption :-D18:24
dproSpeedEvil: but stuff like NAT and ip forwarding works on the n900 ?18:24
tybolltdpro: sorry to annoy you though ;)18:24
SpeedEvildpro: NAT I don't think is included by default18:24
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SpeedEviljaffa did a kernel with it18:24
dprotybollt: NP18:24
villagerdpro: perhaps you'd have to put in some arm asm code...18:24
dprovillager: I might have to, yes18:24 is down ? :'(18:24
SpeedEvil(NAT that is)18:25
Stskeepslizardo: works for me18:25
lizardoStskeeps: I get "An error occurred while processing your request."18:26
alteregoSpeedEvil: what's doing the PROXYing?> N900 to some server on the cloud?18:26
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JaffaSpeedEvil: I don't think I did18:26
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* slonopotamus wonders if anyone here at all knows why she can't chroot while being inside armel scratchbox.18:26
Scummeroh oh18:26
SpeedEvilJaffa: I'm sure you did. OTOH - you'd probably know better :)18:26
slonopotamusanyone. she.18:27
alteregoslonopotamus: I don't realy htink it's possible.18:27
SpeedEvilJaffa: You compiled a kernel - with modules - just not NAT ?18:27
Stskeepsslonopotamus: cos of SB's way of doing it18:27
alteregoslonopotamus: what are you trying to do?18:27
alteregoSpeedEvil: by NAT are you talking about iptables? :P18:27
villagerslonopotamus: chroot is something only root can do, and SB doesn't really run as root18:28
slonopotamusalterego, i'm trying to measure competence level of maemo ppl :)18:28
villagerperhaps fakeroot can emulate chrooting though18:28
Stskeepsslonopotamus: chroot is really difficult in sb18:28
villagerhmm, seems not18:28
alteregoYou could hack scratchbox to allow you to log in as root ;)18:29
slonopotamusoh, you're not root there :(18:29
alteregoJust don't chroot into a target with architecture or ABI incompatibilities with your host's kernel ^>^18:29
alteregoslonopotamus: bug scratchbox devs to make you a fakeroot-chroot function :)18:30
JaffaSpeedEvil: I didn't :)18:30
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* SpeedEvil may be inventing stuff due to pizza deficiancy.18:30
villagerdebian has a fakechroot, maybe import that into extras-devel18:30
* Jaffa hasn't done any Maemo kernel development/compilation/packaging. Honest :)18:30
alteregoWhich would effectively just change your target :P18:30
* Jaffa has a pizza deficiency, but he's fairly certain he'd remember :)18:30
Scummerhm.. is there a logfile somewhere to be found when an addition to the desktop fails ?18:30
alteregovillager: I don't think that's as fake as you think it is.18:31
SpeedEvilAha! s/aff/ebb/18:31
JaffaScummer: NAFAIK; but what's the problem? (I've been looking at lots of hildon-desktop stuff with Catorise)18:31
SpeedEvilI think.18:31
JaffaSpeedEvil: That'd do it :)18:31
xorAxAxslonopotamus: marat is a female name?18:31
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villageralterego: what do you mean? fakechroot is a ld_preload trick just like fakeroot (which does work in scratchbox), isn't it?18:32
slonopotamusxorAxAx, 'anyone' is female.18:32
Scummerjaffa: trying to get the recaller widget added to the desktop... but it won't show18:32
villageralterego: nor did I say anything about whether fakechroot is fake or not, just said it's available in debian18:32
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lizardothanks to I got what I needed :)18:32
Scummerjaffa : so i'm trying to find out why it's not being added and looking to see if it maybe throws an error somewhere18:33
alteregoFair muff18:34
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JaffaScummer: Can you pastebin /usr/share/applications/hildon/recaller.desktop?18:36
slonopotamusso you can't enter scratchbox while being root?18:36
JaffaThere's Weird Shit[TM] what happens with Phone and stuff18:36
Jaffa(i.e. you have to have it in the menu for the desktop entry to work)18:36
Jaffas/in the menu/$& exactly once/18:36
infobotJaffa meant: (i.e. you have to have it $& exactly once for the desktop entry to work)18:36
Scummerjaffa : lemme check18:36
lardmanmy phone desktop shortcut is not working anymore18:37
lardmanin fact all the shortcuts on one desktop have failed18:37
tybolltlardman: tried rebooting?18:37
Scummerjaffa : that file doesn't exist18:37
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tybolltlardman: R E B O O T18:37
lardmantybollt: nah18:37
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lardmanthis is Linux! ;18:37
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lardmankill -9 hildon-desktop18:38
tybolltseriously I have had the icons dissapearing on my plenty times, IIRC reboot solved it18:38
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lardmanthough that will probably have the same effect18:38
slonopotamusvillager, Only a privileged process (Linux: one with the CAP_SYS_CHROOT capability) may call chroot(2).  You don't need to be root.18:38
Scummerjaffa : i'm assuming since the widget doesn't get added..18:38
lardmantybollt: no, not disappearing, they are there but don't work18:38
dproSpeedEvil: there is a wireless-tools package already18:38
Scummerjaffa: it does show in the widget list tho... weird..18:38
tybolltlardman: HUP not 9, gee wtf :)18:38
lardmantybollt: true18:38
lardmanI usually reboot18:38
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tybolltreboot does it the right way18:38
lopzhey! ;]18:39
tybolltno need to engage brains18:39
Scummerreboot sounds so windoze like...18:39
kuriirilardman: you have catorise?18:39
tybolltand also you don't become one of the uptime kids *shudder*18:39
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lardmankuriiri: yes18:39
kuriiriyeah, add new shortcuts :)18:40
kuriirithere s weird bug18:40
tybolltI don't use an N900 because I hate windows. I use an N900 because it is a good device.18:40
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Scummerwith windoze the N900 wouldn't be a good device to start out with.. hehe18:41
Arkenoi it runs Mer, or what?18:41
Stskeepsno, diablo deriative18:41
kuriirii have 3 calendar and 3 clocks selectable in the add shortcut menu18:41
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GeneralAntillesThey took a bunch of the Diablo open source components, added their own crap and called it "Maemo".18:41
SpeedEvildpro: oh. Where do I get the list of stuff - including the stuff that doesn't show up in ham18:42
Arkenoiso it is not really compatible to anything?18:42
StskeepsArkenoi: it is compatible with diablo i think18:42
alteregoWhat's the IRC cloak list? Is that just a mapping of IRC nicks to usernames?@18:42
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GAN900I wish idiot bloggers would stop spreading lies.18:43
alteregoShould I add mine?18:43
SpeedEvilan IRC cloak on freenode is what shows up when you do /whois foo18:43
GAN900alterego, do you have 500 karma? :P18:43
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alteregoAh, no :)18:43
alteregoGAN900: so, what is it?18:43
tybolltthere was talk about an extended battery by a third party18:43
tybolltany news on that?18:43
GAN900alterego, see IRC cloaks18:44
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SpeedEvilHow does one see ones karma?18:45
SpeedEviltybollt: no18:45
Scummerjaffa: i did a killall hildon-home and bamm.. the widget shows up on the desktop :/18:45
alteregoSpeedEvil: go to your profile.18:45
GAN900SpeedEvil, login to, click your name in the upper right.18:45
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alteregoHeh, the N900 has tun/tap built by defailt? Nice ..18:51
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alteregoCould do SSH based VPN well easy.18:51
villagerslonopotamus: then I guess you know how to give it that capability18:52
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* SpeedEvil wonders why his karma isn't higher. It says 4* bugs. Is this bugs in a given state? 18:53
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SpeedEvilOdd. And my wiki contributions list is blank.18:54
cedahmm, doesn't accept my crash reports, is it down?18:55
Stskeepsstage is dead afaik18:55
slonopotamusceda, does it output crash report instead? :)18:55
cedathanks, I'll attach on bugzilla then18:55
cedaslonopotamus: :) nah, it just says "Failuire with file XXX. Server status 0"18:56
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GAN900SpeedEvil, karma revisions are being pushed today.18:59
GAN900SpeedEvil, probably affecting calcs.18:59
JaffaLast time a karma recalc took 2 days, do we know if that's gone down?19:00
GAN900Seems likely.19:00
GAN900But dunno.19:00
SpeedEvilGAN900: that's why all the contribs pages in the wiki are blank?19:00
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hendryi'm trying to get a .desktop shortcut to run a command as root. can anyone offer some advice please?19:02
GAN900SpeedEvil, no, that's a MediaWiki limitation brought out by using GForge accounts on it.19:03
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cedahendry: if you really have to, then setuid might work?19:04
hendryi saw something like19:06
hendryExec=sudo gainroot19:06
hendrythough that doesn't work19:06
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GAN900Bloggers are going to be the first ones against the wall once the revolutoon starts.19:12
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hendryargh, i need strace19:12
* hendry wonders why i can't find an strace package for maemo519:13
SpeedEvillook for the tools repo19:13
SpeedEvilapt-get install strace19:13
Damion2oh yeah I needed that recently19:13
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Damion2Jaffa: you from egham hills or mono?  I'm sure we've met19:15
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im2which command shou‎ld i use to compile this code from scratchbox ""19:25
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Mikhoanyone have experience with running PyQt4 inside scratchbox? It seems I'm not able to run the simplest hello world program without it segfaulting after running QApplication.exec_()19:30
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woglindeMikho hm might be qemu19:31
woglindeMikho or are you testing with i386 target?19:31
StskeepsMikho: maemo5?19:31
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Stskeepsah, then it's normal19:32
Mikhothe weird thing is: if I run python2.5, it crashes19:32
anidelhi, did nokia actually stated that the Maemo 6 device will be capacitive? I think they only stated it'll be capable of multitouch, right?19:32
Mikhobut if I run python2.5 and then write execfile(""), it works19:32
Mikhoalso, python2.5 -c "execfile(\"\")" crashes19:33
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GeneralAntillesanidel, Summit announcement said capacitive.19:33
Mikhopyqt4 is not supposed to work under diablo?19:34
anideldamn.. ok :) I was trying to hold on a hope19:34
JaffaDamion2: Both :)19:34
woglindeMikho not really19:34
timeless_mbpanidel: you were hoping for a product that cost 10x as much as the competition? :)19:34
spectre-joikuspot n900 preview shots released19:34
timeless_mbpspectre-: we already critiqued it19:35
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Stantum aint that expensive.19:35
timeless_mbpit got an F19:35
anideltimeless_mbp, are those resistive/multitouch screens that expensive? no one's ordering them :)19:35
MikhoI experimented a bit, and found out that the app crashes when it's trying to paint the window19:35
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timeless_mbpanidel: as volumes increase, costs goes down19:35
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Mikhobut if I make the xephyr screen super large (8000x4800), it works again (though slow)19:36
anideltimeless_mbp, know that..19:36
dotblankOk. google voice is pretty cool but I wish the n900 app would make it so all phone calls are sent through google voice19:36
Mikhowaiting for someone to tell me to quit running pyqt apps inside scratchbox :)19:37
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jhfordis it possible (or advisable) to have scratchbox running with both chinook and fremantle sdks?19:38
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Damion2Jaffa: so we have met?19:39
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I just want a device that doesn't make me feel like Nokia's been abusing my time and energy to create a product I don't want to own.19:40
JaffaDamion2: Online, certainly.19:40
Damion2ph1l: that bootchart is great19:40
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: sorry19:40
timeless_mbpthat seems unlikely to happen19:40
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, apparently.19:40
Damion2oh he's not here19:40
timeless_mbpcompanies abuse people19:40
* Jaffa wants to not buy an N900 and have it superceded in 4 months19:40
timeless_mbpthat's how they work19:40
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I just wish there were somebody I could adequately express my displeasure to.19:40
anidelJaffa, you hope it'll be announced before Sept 2010 :D like me19:41
timeless_mbpJaffa: i think it's very safe to say it won't be in 4 months19:41
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timeless_mbpshall we try some math?19:41
GeneralAntilles1 year, 4 months.19:41
Damion2but so many major bugs marked as fixed in m6 means it must be soon19:41
* Jaffa looks forward to the beta Maemo 6 SDKs which we should be getting in 2 months *cough* ;-)19:41
Damion2you can't just leave those broken in m5?19:41
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GeneralAntillesWhat does it matter, Nokia prefers people who aren't and haven't purchased their product to people who's money and time they've already conned out of them.19:41
DisconnectJaffa: thats my thought. i was gonna get an n900 last year but they kept changing prices, release dates, etc etc. by the time it came out the tmob rumours slowed me down, and now by the time i'm ready it'll be close to maemo 6 device. or the android "nexus pro" w/ kb and such.19:41
anidelJaffa: beta? :)19:42
Jaffaanidel: According to the summit, wasn't it Jan-Feb, alpha; Mar-May, beta19:42
timeless_mbpJaffa: so you expect us to go from "beta sdk" to shipping product in 2 months?19:42
timeless_mbpvery funny19:42
Disconnecttimeless_mbp: do it the google way. go from shipping device to beta sdk in 4 weeks ;)19:42
anidelJaffa: did they also say the year? :p19:42
Jaffaanidel: They did ;-)19:43
anidelJaffa, eheh19:43
Jaffatimeless_mbp: OK, "launch" rather than "shipping"19:43
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* timeless_mbp looks for a calendar19:43
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timeless_mbpdoes nokia have *any* launch events available in may?19:43
timeless_mbpJaffa: afaik most launch events nokia has are late aug at the earliest19:44
timeless_mbp(where the n900 "launched")19:44
timeless_mbpi don't think there are any launch events in the summer19:44
timeless_mbp(finns take summer holidays for some silly reason)19:44
Matthew-Is there a way of getting all emails in 1 inbox?19:44
anidelMay the beta + 4 months -> September19:44
timeless_mbpanidel: june/july aren't months19:45
anideltimeless_mbp, summer holidays are not silly... well.. August ones are19:45
timeless_mbpin corporate calendars they aren't even scheduled :)19:45
Jaffatimeless_mbp: "4 months" wasn't supposed to be specific, fwiw19:45
timeless_mbpi can't find a non specific claim19:45
timeless_mbpi'd get in trouble :)19:45
timeless_mbpbut i can easily wave my hands and explain away 4 months! :)19:45
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GeneralAntillesWhat the hell ever happened to that "2 rounds of major support" claim. . . .19:46
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: what's that?19:46
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GeneralAntillesThat each device would get at least 2 major releases.19:47
fralspr1.1, pr1.2? ;D19:47
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GeneralAntillesfrals, only if you have one of Jobs's RDF machines.19:47
anidelfor me Major Release means Maemo 5 and Maemo 6 :p19:47
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timeless_mbpdid the n810 get a major update?19:48
* timeless_mbp doesn't think it did19:48
timeless_mbpheck, i don't think the n800 did either19:48
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JaffaMaybe that's why Nokia's giving away so many N900s, they know no-one'll be buying them in 7 months ;-)19:48
timeless_mbpit just got the minor cpu scaling update19:48
GeneralAntillesN800 did19:48
hrw|gonetimeless_mbp: n800 got chinook and diablo19:48
anidel"7 months" again not specific?19:48
GeneralAntilles770 got OS2005 and OS200619:48
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GeneralAntillesN800 got OS2007 and OS200819:48
GeneralAntillesThen it sort of didn't pan out for the N81019:48
anidelN810 is a "sub-model"19:48
timeless_mbpoh right, yeah, we only screwed the n81019:48
Jaffaanidel: I'll keep making specific notes until timeless_mbp stays quiet ;-)19:48
hrw|gonen900 got maemo5 and will not get more19:48
GeneralAntillesand seems likely to not pan out for the N900.19:48
anidelJaffa: :D19:49
hrw|gonetimeless_mbp: and n810we which did not existed outside of nokia ;D19:49
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timeless_mbphrw: actually i know people who managed to buy that19:49
timeless_mbpi really do not understand *how*19:49
timeless_mbpbut they did19:49
anidelN810 can run OS2007.. so .. it got two :P19:49
GeneralAntillesSo things just seem to be getting worse.19:49
Jaffaor *why*19:49
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timeless_mbpJaffa: no comment :)19:49
hrwanidel: it can run os2005he even19:49
GeneralAntillesI have a strong desire to tar and feather Symbian managers who made their way into Maemo.19:49
anidelhrw so .. see.. so far so good19:49
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: i'll buy the tar19:49
timeless_mbpand sponsor you for the feathers19:50
* GeneralAntilles doesn't get how Nokia can so effectively kill off communities with each release without actively trying to do so.19:50
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: it's a corporation :)19:50
GeneralAntillesI love the whole community building approach to product releases19:50
anidelignoring is killing19:50
GeneralAntilles"Let's release these R&D devices so we can build up a great community so when we finally go to market properly everything will be awesome!"19:51
GeneralAntillesAll they actually managed to do was sour people on the platform and the company.19:51
Disconnecttimeless_mbp: "late 2010" so.. for me, "4 months" is only a minor exaggeration (march to july, launch in sept or so)19:51
hrwGeneralAntilles: but in nokia way it is more like: Let's release these R&D devices so we can build up a great community so when we finally go to market we will stop development and start next device19:51
GeneralAntillesIt's hilarious talking to 770 and N800 owners who will have nothing to do with Nokia anymore because of how they mishandled things.19:51
anidelthat's what happen when a play project (maemo) grows up and attracts business people that will then decide for its future19:51
DisconnectGeneralAntilles: could be worse. nokia is making people sad. google is actively making them hate :)19:52
hrwGeneralAntilles: I got brand new 770 from nokia guy 3 months before end of support19:52
GeneralAntillesI'm finding that all of my favored brands are slowly making me hate them.19:52
anidelwhich other brand?19:52
GeneralAntillesApple's the other big one.19:52
derfI don't understand why it's "slowly".19:53
GeneralAntillesThe whole Apple Computer -> Apple, Inc. thing sums that one up nicely.19:53
anideltrue Apple was my favored brand when I got their first pb (12")19:53
anidelGeneralAntilles, indeed19:53
* timeless_mbp shrugs19:53
* timeless_mbp hearts mbp19:53
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I can't wait until Mobile Mac OS X becomes just Mac OS X.19:54
* timeless_mbp grumbles19:54
timeless_mbpi'm not a fan of the way apple's version compat story plays out19:54
timeless_mbpor the fact that their loader story is awful19:54
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timeless_mbpby 10.9 or so they might have a basic toolchain that doesn't suck19:54
* Disconnect is still amused about nokia tho. A few years back nokia was pushing that funky sideways camcorder phone (beginning of n-series maybe?) and one of the reps at the web20 booth no-shit started -yelling- at me that nobody would ever want a phone with a kb, blackberry was a fluke, nokia wouldn't ever make -any- more communicator-style devices, etcetc..19:54
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timeless_mbpi think communicator is officially dead19:55
timeless_mbpthe e90 isn't really a communicator19:55
anideltimeless_mbp, we'll see tomorrow... their next creation19:55
timeless_mbpit's symbian done badly to annoy diehard communicator users19:55
Damion2uhoh, our partner with google didn't know 1.1 launched the video talk19:56
infobotDamion2 meant: uhoh, our partner with nokia didn't know 1.1 launched the video talk19:56
Damion2thankyou infobot19:56
anidelvideo talk ?19:56
Damion2yeah if somebody starts a video talk with a googlecontact, from a desktop it does two way video/audio conferencing19:57
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anideldidn't try that19:57
timeless_mbpDamion2: eh?19:57
timeless_mbpDamion2: i think that predates 1.119:57
hrwDamion2: but due to quality of frontcamera it is worse experience then not having videocall support19:57
timeless_mbpi seem to recall someone demoing that to me in 1.019:57
timeless_mbpit just was an undocumented feature19:58
anidelit didn't work19:58
timeless_mbpand it was not likely to last more than half a minute19:58
timeless_mbpit didn't work _well_19:58
timeless_mbpbut it did sorta work19:58
Damion2interestingly with good quality front cam, showing that various contrasty ioctl's against /dev/video1 work well19:58
anidelit didn't work for me19:58
Corsacvideoconf never really worked for me but I always had either NAT problems, either codecs problem19:58
timeless_mbpi was using sales until christmas or so19:58
timeless_mbpand i did google talk video to myself to test19:58
Damion2I've yet to install the .debs for 64bit linux video talk19:59
Damion2so I've been getting windows/mac people to call me in the office.  I tried switching /dev/video1 0 around which works for the mirror app ;)  But crashes camera app and gtalk20:00
* Damion2 has to go running, see you later20:00
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anidelthis is what happened when I tried video call20:01
anidelafter 2 seconds, call dropped20:01
anidelthis was PR1.0 I think...20:01
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timeless_mbpanidel: yeah, but 2s >> 0s20:01
timeless_mbpi think i had up to 30s20:02
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timeless_mbpbut only once or twice20:02
anideltimeless_mbp, video never showed up though :)20:03
anidelwe'll try again20:03
timeless_mbpoh, i got video20:03
timeless_mbpboth ways20:03
timeless_mbpbut it's really not that interesting20:03
timeless_mbpit should be better in later versions20:03
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LuciusMarei heard that n900's got a serial console, but i couldnt find any more things about it - is it true? Can it be used to control, for example servos, or these kinds of electronical circuits?20:04
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timeless_mbpLuciusMare: so20:05
timeless_mbpthe device has pins which can be used as a serial console20:05
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timeless_mbpand the kernel can be told to use those pins20:05
hrwLuciusMare: it has serial console. but you need to be @nokia to know where they are and which voltage20:05
cehtehbit hard to reach :)20:05
unixSnobany browsers support MHT files on maemo?20:05
timeless_mbpunixSnob: no20:05
timeless_mbpuncab them.20:05
cehtehLuciusMare: under the battery :)20:06
timeless_mbpLuciusMare: so...20:06
LuciusMareSo, practically no use?20:06
timeless_mbpit generally isn't worth using20:06
timeless_mbpif you aren't a kernel dev, you shouldn't use them20:06
timeless_mbpit's a waste of resources20:06
LuciusMareaw again.20:06
timeless_mbpand it actually can cause interesting bugs20:06
timeless_mbpwell, annoyingly *stupid* bugs20:06
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Seen ?20:06
cehtehonly for mounting that device on a test-rig20:06
hrwtimeless_mbp: and if you are then you do not have informations anyway20:06
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timeless_mbpssh is better20:06
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LuciusMaressh to control electronic circuits?20:07
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JaffaApparently "What Mobile" magazine in the UK definitively said that Maemo 6 was going to be available on the N900.20:07
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timeless_mbpLuciusMare: most people want the serial console so they can see debug spew20:07
CorsacJaffa: are their sources reliable? :)20:07
timeless_mbpyou can see debug spew by running apps from a terminal, e.g. an ssh session20:07
hrwtimeless_mbp: I want it to be able to track why my alternative OS do not work20:07
anidelJaffa: I read the thread as well.. but I also (and you were there) listened to Jussi stating the opposite clearly here in London20:07
cehtehthere is prolly jtag too .. but iirc no one figured it out yet20:07
timeless_mbpCorsac: obviously not :)20:07
Corsacit was a rethorical question :)20:08
Jaffaanidel: When did Jussi state the opposite in London? onedotzero?20:08
timeless_mbphrw: you didn't buy hardware, you bought a package :)20:08
LuciusMareSo, this is a big piece of gold, bud locked in the licenses locks?20:08
anidelJaffa: yes..20:08
GeneralAntillesJaffa, interesting, that conflicts with what I heard at BCN.20:08
Jaffaanidel: I don't remember20:08
hrwtimeless_mbp: I got developer package without developer tools20:08
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Indeed, I'd be surprised20:08
JaffaBut lying to journalists is a bad idea20:08
anideljaffa: he specifically said that Maemo 6 will support Multitouch and they don't want two devices with two different user experience to confuse people20:08
timeless_mbphrw: so complain to whomever gave you the package, not here20:08
hrwI know20:09
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anideljaffa: he said that answering to a guy who asked about Maemo 6 and N90020:09
GeneralAntillesJaffa, perhaps the Maemo 6 device is also called "N900".20:09
Jaffaanidel: Ah, that rings a bell20:09
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Matan's pointed out they'll just call PR1.2 "Maemo 6"20:09
Jaffai.e. pull a diablo20:09
timeless_mbphrw: i believe that if you offered value that nokia thought was useful, someone from nokia would be willing to share a solution20:09
anidelJaffa: yup you just finished your talk and there were questions20:09
Corsacso Harmatan would be upgraded to maemo7? :)20:09
GeneralAntillesJaffa, at least Diablo had some feature upgrades.20:09
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anidelPR1.2 as Maemo 6? doubt it20:09
GeneralAntillesJaffa, PR1.2 doesn't look like it's going to have anything.20:09
Jaffaanidel: I finished my talk and shut down ;-)20:09
LuciusMareand, how come nobody actually found out yet?20:10
timeless_mbpi think konttori_nokia suggested calling pr 1.2 Maemo 5.220:10
LuciusMarethe informations are left untold by nokia?20:10
timeless_mbpwhich of course leaves problems for the version numbering after that20:10
anidelJaffa, :) yep.. he stepped up answering questions :) I recall that.. as I was very sad to hear it20:10
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Which'd seem eminently sensible and I can't imagine any reason why not.20:10
Jaffatimeless_mbp: How so?20:10
* Stskeeps gets out the popcorn20:10
timeless_mbpJaffa: 1.1/1.2 are 'minor' updates20:10
timeless_mbpthere are some groups working on 'bigger' updates20:10
timeless_mbpwhich would naturally have been hypothetically numbered '2'20:10
Jaffatimeless_mbp: 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 5.7 :-)20:11
timeless_mbpif you use 5.1 = 1.1, and 5.2 = 1.220:11
timeless_mbpthen you get a problem when faced with '2'20:11
zaheermtimeless_mbp, can jump to 5.1020:11
JaffaPR 2.0 of Maemo 5?20:11
GeneralAntillesOnly Nokia can make versioning this difficult.20:11
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: IMO, the problem isn't whether we get a major update or not; the real problem is that Nokia prevents us from doing our own updates when they stop20:11
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: not fair20:11
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Oh no, you should be here.20:11
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timeless_mbpapple, microsoft, and mozilla have all made versioning difficult20:11
GeneralAntillesI wonder which manager came up with the PR scheme.20:12
JaffaMultiple modules we want to version control separately; with versioning being time-based, but also indicating major/minor compatibility20:12
timeless_mbpMS Word, MS Excel, MS Office, MS Windows20:12
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CaesiumSun did a pretty good job with SunOS 5.8 == Solaris 8 as well20:12
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: just promise to shoot him :)20:12
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I'm not consistently baffled by disagreements between multiple versioning systems for a single product with Apple.20:12
timeless_mbpCaesium: Solaris 2.6 ?20:12
LuciusMarenamely the microsoft - Win 1.1,win 3.1,win 95,win 98, -- win 720:12
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GeneralAntillesI can't really speak to Microsoft.20:12
Caesiumtimeless_mbp: well most of the old ones I guess? :)20:12
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Caesiumactually they're still doing it now, I'm sure on boot my Solaris 11 says "5.11"20:12
ShadowJKdid I miss what's wrong with 2009.51-1120:13
timeless_mbpShadowJK: the version number there is meaningless20:13
timeless_mbpit's also incomplete20:13
timeless_mbpand wait till you see the next version number :)20:13
timeless_mbpand i don't mean a 1.1.120:13
Caesium2.0? :p20:13
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timeless_mbpCaesium: some surprises are best left that way :)20:13
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* timeless_mbp tries to remember the last time apple mucked w/ versionings20:14
timeless_mbpthere's 9 => X => X 10.120:14
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timeless_mbpwhich is at least slightly odd20:14
LuciusMarenot really20:14
LuciusMareX=10 in romans20:14
LuciusMareisnt it?20:14
timeless_mbpiPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3G s20:14
Caesiumso now they're on 10 10.1? :)20:14
timeless_mbpLuciusMare: Mac OS 10 10.120:14
hrwShadowJK: 2009.51-1 given to community != 2009.51-1 inside of nokia I think20:14
anidelI'll switch to the Zune Phone.. at least I know it will all be crap and if something good come along.. I'd be nicely surprised20:14
LuciusMaretimeless_mbp: well20:14
timeless_mbphrw: actually, it is20:15
LuciusMareit shifted a bit, now it is just mac os x20:15
LuciusMarenot 1020:15
Jaffahrw: Eh? 2.2009.51-1 is unique20:15
timeless_mbp51-1 = 51-1 = 51-120:15
timeless_mbpignoring the stupidity of operator variants20:15
timeless_mbpwhich shouldn't exist, but well, we have idiotic managers who think those are good ideas20:15
timeless_mbpi think we imported those from elsewhere in the company20:15
hrwtimeless_mbp: I though rather as 2009.51-1 as "first build in 51st week of 2009"20:16
GeneralAntillesBy the way, does anybody know if the Vodafone units flash easily to the public firmware?20:16
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: they **** well better20:16
timeless_mbpi think i convinced someone yesterday to flash w/ it20:16
anidelgoing home.. later guys20:16
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, that was my opinion, too, but the thread on Talk never reached a conclusion before I started ignoring it.20:16
timeless_mbpand i didn't hear any complaints20:16
GeneralAntillesBye, anidel.20:16
GeneralAntillesApparently the Voda firmware can't use Extras.20:16
timeless_mbpsp3000: dinner plans?20:16
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: oh, that's special20:17
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LuciusMareanybody had tried porting audacity to maemo?20:18
ShadowJKlike really can't use it? application catalogues disabled in app manager?20:19
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, no technically minded people seem to be working with the locked firmware20:19
GeneralAntillesSo dunno.20:19
JaffaGeneralAntilles: It what?!20:20
zaheermat least people can use flasher to flash a real firmware on it ::)20:20
ShadowJKmaybe it's just not there by default20:20
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: i wonder if it had the 'do not use' checkbox checked :)20:20
timeless_mbpzaheerm: that was the question GeneralAntilles asked20:20
GeneralAntillesJaffa, could be FUD, but I dunno.20:20
pierluxnow that pyclutter and pyclutter-gtk have releases, can we have (official) packages for them?20:20
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* GeneralAntilles can't wait until Maemo 6 and GPLv2 combine for Tivoization.20:22
* GeneralAntilles wonders what Nokia is cooking up for Ovi paid authentication.20:23
timeless_mbpis awesome20:23
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ShadowJKgeneralantilles: look forward to operator locked phones with microb sans address bar and start page to special edition of BING locked to only search :)))20:25
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, love it.20:25
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, but it gets better, they actually REMOVE MicroB and install a Java WAP browser.20:26
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, that pixel doubles.20:26
odin_WWHHAATT ??20:26
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cehteh   wow :)20:28
JaffaGeneralAntilles: If it was me, I'd have a repo with a personalised URL and a generated Packages which contained only the apps where the signed in user had clicked "Download" (and, where necessary, paid) in the store. Maybe XORed with IMEI of device to prevent casual reuse of packages URLs.20:28
GeneralAntillescehteh, yeah, that's a nice shot.20:28
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cehtehwho needs mechanical shutters when you can readout the ccd line by line :P20:29
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sp3000timeless_mbp: just landed @home20:30
timeless_mbpshort day or early day?20:30
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zaheermJaffa, sounds sensible20:32
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pupnikthat image got used in wikipedia20:34
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RST38hmoo all20:34
andresannoyingly many files for every user though...20:35
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glyphis the author of the IRC conversations and contacts plugin around here?20:36
lcukcehteh, thats a classy image, i bet ari was wondering what he just drank after taking that shot20:36
cehtehlcuk: hehe .. show that to the flight attendant "Hey i think we have a problem"20:38
Robot101glyph: he's not, but he works at Collabora, what's the q?20:38
RST38hComes With Music ROP:
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RST38hEHLO javispedro20:40
glyphRobot101: well, I got it from the extras-devel repository, and that means it's supposed to work perfectly, right?  but it doesn't, so I'm very mad ;-)20:40
javispedromoo RST20:40
Trizttimeless_mbp; is it possible to get a "no updates" message in your English language pack without seeing it before the scan starts? (I guess not as you don't have any message at all)20:40
glyphRobot101: I used it to connect to my IRC proxy, and it somewhat unhelpfully PARTed from all the channels that I was present in.20:40
timeless_mbpit's used afaiu as a static20:40
sp3000timeless_mbp: early20:40
RST38hBTW, the Android-running version of HTC HD2 has been leaked.20:40
timeless_mbpi've found all of those statics to be useless20:41
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RST38hThat is a 4.3" 800x480 phone.20:41
timeless_mbpand basically run around removing them20:41
timeless_mbpmy replacement is a single space :)20:41
* Trizt nods20:41
glyphRobot101: It would be nice if it could just ignore any JOIN or NAMES responses, so that I could receive PRIVMSGs on my phone to the same account where I'm logged in here20:41
lcukglyph, errrr... "extras-devel" is the basic development repository.20:41
GeneralAntillesglyph, just get XChat.20:41
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timeless_mbpTrizt: if a user can't figure out that an empty screen means "there's nothing here"20:41
timeless_mbpthen i'm sorry20:41
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Trizttimeless_mbp; it's better this way IMHO, but I hope it could be with a end message20:42
timeless_mbpbut if a user sees "there's nothing here"20:42
Robot101glyph: the UIs don't support group chat yet, so it will behave weirdly with them at the moment20:42
javispedroRST38h: just two months after the CEO himself said "no"? would be nice :)20:42
timeless_mbpand it turns out that later there is something here20:42
timeless_mbpthen that's bad20:42
timeless_mbpwhich reminds me20:42
timeless_mbpi don't remember if i fixed hildon-desktop20:42
glyphGeneralAntilles: I'm already using Pidgin for IRC, and I'm fairly happy with it.  And I hope it was clear from my initial comment that I did not really expect it to work :).  I'm just offering feedback.20:42
timeless_mbpsometimes it'll say "no applications" or something20:42
glyphRobot101: Right.  I'm just saying, ignoring group-chat-related messages is better than actively PARTing20:42
Trizttimeless_mbp; I had a similar problem with my bosses dad today, so had to make application to give an error message instead of generating an empty pdf for him. Just thought it had looked a bit nicer20:43
* timeless_mbp nods20:43
timeless_mbpi understand why they did what they did20:43
timeless_mbpbut done wrong, a message is much much worse than no message20:43
* Trizt agrees20:44
timeless_mbppeople will read a message before they look for animated throbbers20:44
timeless_mbpnot seeing  a message, an animation will stand out20:44
timeless_mbpRST38h: thanks for the url20:44
Robot101glyph: also the interaction between idle and IRC proxies is known to not be ideal20:45
glyphRobot101: what do you mean?20:45
glyphRobot101: bip seems to support IDLE requests just fine20:46
Robot101idle is the name of the telepathy backend20:46
Robot101for IRC20:46
glyphOh, heh20:46
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* pierlux gables20:47
glyphwell, a data point from me: it worked perfectly except for parting all of my channels :)20:47
glyphmaybe I'll just grab telepathy-python and write my own IRC backend with Twisted20:47
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glyphwhat makes a conversation plugin beyond a telepathy connection manager?20:48
* timeless_mbp ponders20:48
timeless_mbp"No events or tasks" ?20:48
* timeless_mbp tries to imagine how that could be a remotely useful message20:48
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timeless_mbpTrizt: speaking of which20:49
timeless_mbpopen calendar20:49
timeless_mbpif you're in month view, tap a square that has no bits in it20:49
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timeless_mbpif you're in some other view, switch to month view20:49
timeless_mbpi believe i'm 30s away from dropping No events or tasks20:49
timeless_mbpbut you have 2mins to defend it :)20:49
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spectre-3rd power outage tonight20:50
Trizttimeless_mbp; I think it's a good message to show20:50
spectre-nonsense ;/20:50
timeless_mbpTrizt: grumble20:51
timeless_mbpmy style drops it20:51
Triztit's in place, but you can also understadn there is no events if it's empty too20:51
timeless_mbpi'm going to drop it20:51
timeless_mbpif someone complains in the next update, i can put it back20:51
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Triztthinking here, it may be better looking even in the default theme20:51
* Trizt won't20:52
timeless_mbp"No viewer found for this attachment"20:52
timeless_mbpis a fun error message20:52
timeless_mbpand yes, i have seen it20:52
Triztsomething I miss in the calendar is the week numbers, I hope that would be added someday20:54
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RST38hjavispedro: Well, his marketing department probably had to do some attitude adjustment =)21:00
RST38hjavispedro: on their CEO I mean21:00
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javispedroand on their microsoft contact, if what the CEO said is to be believed...21:01
RST38hI doubt their ms contract is that binding...21:01
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LuciusMarei have an app, that i would like to have on maemo, is just compiling it in the scratchbox (and all the things) enough or do i have to edit the code by some way?21:03
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JaffaLuciusMare: Depends on the app21:03
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LuciusMareJaffa: it is a download manager21:03
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LuciusMarewritten in c++,its called fatrat:
pierluxis there a spanish translator in the room? :)
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javispedrooh, source file21:06
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javispedropierlux: I can21:07
javispedro... I guess "Map Buddy" itself shouldn't be translatable21:08
pierluxjavispedro, no :)21:08
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pierluxwell it wasn't in anyother translation21:08
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javispedro ../src/main.c:62 :P21:09
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LuserN800talking about download manager, jdownloader would be good. apart from java..21:14
SpeedEvilcehteh: those people that don't like scrolling shutter artifacts?21:14
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Stskeepsi'm taking bids on when the first discussion happens on maemo-developers if 'free' means free as in FSF free or free as in open source.21:15
cehtehSpeedEvil: well, its interesting, funny, artistic ... but its not accurate :)21:15
LuserN800I hope not. really.21:15
Stskeepsas in, free in extras-devel21:15
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* SpeedEvil ponders little rotatable telescope lens for the thicker battery cover21:16
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* LuserN800 goes to extras-devel anxiously21:17
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Stskeepsevening matanZ21:17
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terrybogardn900can someone help me please?21:18
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terrybogardn900im reading a guide to add/integrate facebook and it says to create a symlink21:19
terrybogardn900the symlink command doesnt appear to work?!21:19
* SpeedEvil is unconvinced operator variants - done right - are a bad idea.21:19
SpeedEvilWhere done right is 'has a little desktop widget showing what the operator thinks you've used in terms of data transfer, and other similar conveniences.'21:20
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LuciusMareso, in case i would want to port an app, what would i have to edit?21:20
LuserN800Stskeeps, in fact by omitting /usr/share/doc/ I realize that license file is usually missing. Never looked in detail. which package is in free with a non-free license?21:21
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: timeless_mbp: How nasty is it to add a .desktop in the "Desktop" category for a "Catorise donation"? ;)21:23
GeneralAntillesJaffa, pretty goddamn nasty.21:23
timeless_mbpadd it to the Ovi category21:23
GeneralAntillesJaffa, unless tapping it uninstalls it.21:24
Jaffatimeless_mbp: teehee21:24
LuciusMare"android interacts over serial with arduino"21:24
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Thought so. Was inestigating link donatiosn for X-Maemo-Suggested-Donations21:25
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LuciusMareNothing simmiliar possible with maemo (ergo with n900?)21:28
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Anideldidn't know Mauku is not open source21:31
LuciusMareMplayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: unknown21:31
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StskeepsAnidel: i just posted my opinion on the matter21:32
Anidelseg fault21:32
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* LuciusMare uninstalls mplayer21:32
AnidelStskeeps, i know21:32
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pierluxjavispedro, multicimas gratias :)21:33
GeneralAntillesAnidel, it was "opened" a while ago.21:33
GeneralAntillesAnidel, I don't get what his issue is with having a real open source license is, though.21:33
LuciusMareaw, it segfaults every time i try to run everything21:33
AnidelGeneralAntilles, i don't follow all the bugs21:33
LuserN800I miss sort by date in repository view in a browser. or an intelligent numerical sort.. not alphabetical21:33
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AnidelGeneralAntilles, his = ?21:34
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lcukAnidel, february 4th, push party are you comin?21:34
Anidellcuk, where ?21:34
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Anidelwhere = where in reality and where on the web ?21:35
lcuki dunno about proper invites, lemme see if i can find out for you21:35
AnidelGeneralAntilles, who is "his" ? Stskeeps or Henry?21:35
lcukits the one with the pole dancing robots21:35
Anidellcuk, thanks... that'd be cool :) ah I saw the tweet21:35
JaffaI saw a tweet21:36
LuciusMareCould anyone help me,please?21:36
LuciusMareYou will get rid of me, at least for a few days21:36
Anideleheh what's the issue ? MPlayer? did you say you were removing it ?21:36
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LuciusMarei guess that if it segfaults every time, no need for it to bulk up space21:37
LuciusMareevery time i try to play something ,i get "Mplayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: unknown"21:37
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Anidelit doesn't everytime .. unless there's a bug with a specific codec that triggers it .21:38
* lcuk finally feels normal21:38
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JaffaStskeeps speaks sense on the Mauku issue21:38
LuciusMarei tried mp3,ogg,flac,avi,ogv and at last mpg and mp4 - error 1121:38
lcukStskeeps, jaffa, link21:38
Anidellcuk, oh that's something :)21:38
lcukAnidel, i had a migraine earlier21:38
lcukand my tea has stayed down21:38
Anidellcuk, latest e-mail on maemo-developers21:38
lcukis it too much to ask for the maemo weekly news to be live ;)21:39
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LuciusMarei apt-get installed the version in repos21:39
Jaffalcuk: yeah, but you'd have to wait until next Monday (or follow the Twitter "firehose")21:40
lcukisnt the firehose slashdots21:40
Jaffalcuk: I may try and get a manual isussue out in the next week or so21:40
Jaffalcuk: indeed21:40
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lcukjaffa :D a manual issue would be cool, a proof of concept and would help iron out issues with formatting and presentation21:41
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Jaffalcuk: yeah, I know21:42
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GeneralAntillesAnidel, hhedberg21:44
Anidelyep.. so ?21:45
Anidelah sorry21:45
* lardman curses powerpoint and reboots to start WinXP21:45
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dexenquestion; is there a reasonable way to define own `photo sharing service' for n900?21:50
dexenas in, own upload destination?21:50
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dexent/y pH521:52
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dexenso basically it's gotta be executable code, right?21:54
dexenno way to just hack together a bunch of config files/scripts?21:54
Stskeepsyou're welcome to make a python loader for it21:54
Stskeepsor something21:54
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dexenyay an actual joke :P21:55
* w00t wanders in21:55
w00thow are we all this fine evening21:55
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dexendoing better, t/y w00t21:59
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dexenyou got a spare battery yet, w00t?22:00
w00tdexen: negative22:00
w00tI don't need it really22:00
dexenhow long does your last?22:01
w00tdepends on usage pattern22:01
w00tif I'm using it heavily, one day22:01
w00tso I charge while I sleep22:01
w00tif I'm not using it much, 2-3 days, most I've had was about 1.5-2 weeks with very very infrequent wifi use and nothing else22:01
dexensrsly, 1.5 week?22:01
SpeedEvilWow. 2 weeks without sleep!22:02
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redis there any way to make the n900 play music for say 20 minutes and then stop?22:05
redlike for sleep music22:05
Stskeepsthere's a sleep timer app22:05
Stskeepsi think22:05
LuserN800ah I see new things on :)22:05
lcukred, change your startup video for a 20minute clip22:05
redill search22:05
redlcuk: rofl22:05
SpeedEvilmplayer *mp3&22:05
SpeedEvilsleep 1200;killall mplayer22:05
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im2hi all,I am not able to compile source code contaning header file      #include <alarmd/alarm_event.h>  from scratchbox.                                    I am using this command to compile "gcc alarm.c `pkg-config libalarm-dev --cflags --libs` -o alarm"22:06
LuciusMareso, what with the mplayer?22:06
terrybogardn900sorry has anyone managed to get the facebook integration mentioned here to work???22:06
LuciusMarenobody knows anything what to do with that?22:06
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RST38hwhat is facebook?22:09
RST38hmoo wazd22:09
redi add the sleeper oln desktop but it doesnt appear22:09
redguess its bork22:09
terrybogardn900facebook is the worlds most popular social networking site22:09
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RST38hnever heard of it22:10
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terrybogardn900really?!? thats a shame theres some nokia n900 groups on there...22:11
javispedron900 haters no doubt.22:11
ScribbleJI /just/ got an N900.22:12
ScribbleJWe are in the honeymoon period; I am in love.22:12
StskeepsScribbleJ: congrats with your new companion!22:12
terrybogardn900fair share either way... some will forever be brainwashed by the iphone... and its simple user friendly interface22:12
wazdRST38h: re heya22:12
terrybogardn900i like the fact n900 is so customizable.. im just confused by all the linux commands... i only know the basics22:13
ScribbleJI am a linux developer by day, so the n900 being linux is like a dream come true.22:13
ScribbleJI mean, I develop things using linux, not that I hack on the kernel22:14
terrybogardn900i managed to change all my notification lights to purple! :)22:14
ScribbleJHaaa, cute.22:14
lcukScribbleJ, thats not love.  its lust22:14
lcuklove comes after many romantic dinners22:14
ScribbleJOK, yes, I lusted for my N900.22:14
ScribbleJShe made me pay though.22:14
lcukall the best women do22:15
ScribbleJI just spent $200 getting out of my AT&T contract that had one month left.22:15
terrybogardn900now im gonna try making the theme/ interface purple!22:15
ScribbleJSo much for timing.22:15
mtnbkrScribbleJ: heh I'm a *nux sysadmin and LOVE being able to ssh into my phone. :)22:15
lcukmtnbkr, ssh out of it is just as good22:15
ScribbleJmtnbkr, yes, I love being able to use my phone to openvpn + ssh into my production networks.22:15
mtnbkrScribbleJ: I am waiting for AT&T to break their contract with me (changing to pay per data bytes) then I will move - for free  :)22:16
ScribbleJNiggling complaint about the existing openvpn widget thingy though, it crashes if you use an excrypted key that needs a passphrase.22:16
mtnbkrlcuk: oh yeah.. that was acually the FIRST app I installed22:16
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ScribbleJSo I have to start openvpn from the command-line to be successful.22:16
lcukScribbleJ, mtnbkr terrybogardn900 any other new users, please add your voice here
ScribbleJSmall price to pay.22:16
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ScribbleJGive me a day or two, then I'll have a blown away day.22:17
ScribbleJI'm integrating a bluetooth credit card swiper to my N900.  I'll post about that.22:17
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mtnbkrScribbleJ: heh  I just installe dhte openvpn stuff on the phone but currently don't havea need for it. I use public/private ket ssh login to my workstation   openVPN is on my list of "to play withs" though22:17
ScribbleJmtnbkr, when you need a vpn instead of just ssh, I highly recommend openvpn.22:18
mtnbkryep.   And my firewall already support it when I get around to enabling/configuring it ;)22:18
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ScribbleJNoice; OpenWRT?22:19
ScribbleJI'm a little sad about the paritioning scheme on the N900... I'm sure soon I will find a page with people's recommendations for dealing with it.22:20
mtnbkrScribbleJ: No, I use DD-WRT on my lynksys wrt54GL wireless AP, and a combination of m0n0wall and pfsense on ALIX boards. ;)22:20
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slonopotamusScribbleJ, everyone is sad with it :)22:21
ScribbleJOH!  That reminds me, my number one question(s) - is it OK to set a password on user so I can ssh in as him instead of root, and maybe use something like x2x?22:21
ScribbleJI've been meaning to get into pfsense; the new netowrking kid at the office wants to use it there.  It sounds nice.22:21
mtnbkrScribbleJ: when you install the opessh server it forces you to set a password22:21
ScribbleJmtnbkr, on root, but I want to set it on user.22:21
mtnbkrScribbleJ: the kid is smart.   pfsense is awesome - based on m0n0wall's initial ideas and also runs on FreeBSD22:22
ScribbleJIn fact i'd prefer to unset it on root entirerly and only log in as user...22:22
ScribbleJmtnbkr, you have no idea, this kid is awesome.  He's only 20 and he kicks ass.22:22
mtnbkrheh I need to hire a couple of THOSE.22:23
ScribbleJMakes me feel fucking ancient at 34 though; he has known linux his whole life!22:23
mtnbkrScribbleJ: heh... all the kids I know/meet only know windows windows windows (oh and Xbox lol)    I need someone with some Linux skills to back me up. :)22:24
mtnbkrScribbleJ: try being 44   lol22:24
ScribbleJmtnbkr, that's my 10-year plan.22:24
mtnbkrsounds like a solid plan22:24
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Arkenoiussd widget update erased all my settings :-(22:25
Arkenoii had custom regexp there22:25
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* mtnbkr wonders if he can host a bzflag server on his N90022:27
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mtnbkrOk, I keep hearing about using the IR for TV remote and Skype for Ip phone calls... where can I find these two apps?22:28
ShadowJKskype is built-in22:28
ShadowJKSettings -> Voip and IM accounts22:28
* mtnbkr facepalms22:29
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