IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-01-15

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bobbydso00:01
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bobbydI might be being a dumbass, but I can't find out where you download the images from :)00:01
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Stskeepstablets-dev.nokia.com00:01
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bobbydta00:02
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tigertbut if you just want the sw update, you dont need amn image00:03
tigertjust run update from application manager00:03
SpeedEviltigert: it's regionalised00:04
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SpeedEvilnot everyione gets the update at once00:04
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SpeedEvilplus - flashing can be easier than uninstalling apps/...00:04
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mikhasyeah00:04
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tigertyea, valid points too00:05
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tigertjust pointed out flashing is not mandatory00:05
tigertgnite!00:05
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Gadgetoidhumm00:06
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SyncAevening00:07
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Gadgetoidahoy00:08
arhi00:08
Gadgetoidnew fw seems... better00:08
wazdlooks like maemo.org is down :(00:09
evoI guess that browser not showing status bar in portrait mode is a known bug, right?00:09
Gadgetoidfor a start my sim card now works00:09
Stskeepswazd: or slow00:09
SyncAnew firmware seems ok00:09
Stskeepswazd: either that, or you crashed it00:09
Gadgetoidits known i think evo00:09
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arAny suggestions for a programm that can read .rtf?00:09
SyncAGadgetoid,  thats a fun start for a phone;-)00:10
Gadgetoidthe menu doesn't work either?00:10
arPerferably free and not word to go.00:10
SyncAevo, that's why it's an easther egg and not a feature I guess00:10
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evoSyncA: ok, thanks :)00:11
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bobbydhi, does anyone know what the difference between the GLOBAL and UK maemo5 images? British English perhaps?00:11
SyncAbut it's promising if you like tu use portrait00:11
Gadgetoidevo how do yae turn it on again?00:11
RST38hImperial British English00:11
SyncActrl shift o00:12
bobbyd:)00:12
Gadgetoidcheers synca00:12
bobbydthe best kind00:12
* RST38h pulls out his Sherlock Holmes anthology00:13
Gadgetoidhmm00:13
Gadgetoidfail!00:14
evoyesterday I was on train testing the speed with ecoach while ssh'ing to a university server and listening to music ... god, I love my n900, perfect nerd gadget :P00:15
RST38hwazd: Hey, I have seen 3G today! even 3.5G when switching to data00:15
mikhasyou were testing the speed of a train?00:15
RST38hwazd: Apparently, spots are starting to appear in Krylatskoe00:15
evomikhas: I'm a train nerd, I know it sounds weird00:15
pcfehow can I see with what ./configure flags a package from Extras (testing) was using when the package in the repo was buiilt? (In this case I am looking to track down why xchat will not use the system wide clicky GUI certificate store where I imported a CA file so I can check a self-made (but properly signed)  cert)00:16
wazdRST38h: wow00:16
evomikhas: 302 km/h top speed, 220 average lol00:16
wazdRST38h: HSDPA?00:16
RST38hwazd: Guess so00:16
mikhasbut what did the test say?00:16
mikhas=p00:16
Gadgetoidwoohoo bailout tax on banks00:17
niekt0uff, just adding extras-devel costs 10MB on /00:17
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evomikhas: I just wanted to see if it really reached the 300 km/h as advertised00:17
torrancewanyone run the maemo 5 update today?00:17
Klowneryup00:17
Gadgetoidyes torrancew00:17
mikhasah, success00:17
torrancewdid you have to use the PC software?00:17
Gadgetoidyes but no00:17
nomis~help-update00:17
infobothelp-update is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting00:17
Gadgetoidit asked me to- i ignored it00:18
torrancewthanks00:18
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torrancewrunning linux, no real plans to use that software00:18
niekt0I found easier reflashing my device than updating;)00:18
el_zilchohaha, few reboots, a few more apt-get -f installs, a few more dpkg --configure -a's and my upgrade is done00:19
fdvprobably a moot question, but are there any reasons *not* to upgrade n900? like e.g. some locking-out of 3rd. party repositories or something?00:19
el_zilcho:)00:19
el_zilchoi wonder if the reboot command is safe now00:19
wazdRST38h: e63 doesn't have 3.5G ironically :D00:19
evocool, apt-get moo works on n900, too00:19
wazdRST38h: only UMTS00:19
fdvalso, I'm seemingly able to upgrade from apt, but the application manager doesn't report any upgrades, has anybody seen this?00:20
fdv(apt-get, that is)00:20
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SyncAevo, cool! that speed test, with wich app did you do that? gonna try that as well!00:21
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evoSyncA: I used ecoach, it should be used to monitor your running sessions but .. it worked great, heh00:22
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* SyncA is opening up app manager00:23
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torindelfdv: its fine here, updated today00:24
evoSyncA: it creates a .gpx file, I think you can import into other apps00:24
evoSyncA: GPS apps I mean00:24
fdvtorindel: thanks00:25
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wazdRST38h: I'm temporary done with Marina for now, looking at NeXTSTEP UI right now :)00:26
xorAxAxso, there is no away state. but what should i do if the phone is running at night but i am sleeping?00:26
xorAxAxwazd: is marina good?00:26
wazdxorAxAx: da best :)00:26
xorAxAxwazd: where can i get it?00:26
torindelfdv: as for reasons not to upgrade? no, using not tested apps from custom repos? yes ;]00:26
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wazdxorAxAx: I'm trying to upload it to extras00:27
wazdxorAxAx: but maemo.org is down for a while00:27
wazdxorAxAx: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/2010-ui-countdown-7-%E2%80%93-marina-theme/00:27
torindelfdv: and watchout what you install if you use testing/devel repos since i found things that error out on uninstall ;p00:28
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fdvwhoopsie00:28
fdvI've disabled devel for the upgrade, but maybe I should disable testing as well00:29
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pupnikbeautiful wazd00:29
torrancewwazd: oh, it's not just my company's dns then00:30
fdvtorindel: but did you use the app manager or cli?00:30
torindelapp manager00:30
torrancewwe've been having issues for a while, so i thought maemo.org was just another one of them00:30
fdvhm. weird. I can't see any update there00:30
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fdvapt-get upgrade presents me with an extensive list, though00:30
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wazdpupnik: thx00:30
pwnguinso how much space do i need on rootfs to upgrade ota?00:30
pwnguin90MB?00:30
nomispwnguin: that is sufficient. More like 75MB or so.00:31
pwnguinhmm00:31
pwnguini only have 53, and im not sure what i can cut00:31
xorAxAxwazd: i dont see a download link00:31
torindelfdv: i updated about 4 things today including Maemo 500:31
wazdxorAxAx: yeah, cause you can't download it right now, it's being processed to Extras atm00:32
evobye00:32
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xorAxAxwazd: whats the package name?00:33
fdvtorindel: ok. maybe it's because I have another list file under sources.list.d00:33
Gadgetoidpymaemo-optify eh?00:33
torindelfdv: try with orginal one ;]00:33
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fdvtrying now :)00:34
fdvnope00:34
fdvoh, well. cli is fine, I hope :)00:34
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torindelfdv: in worst case you can always reflash -__-00:35
pwnguin/usr/lib/locale/locale-archive could probably be cut down...00:35
nomispwnguin: also try apt-get clean and apt-get autoclean.00:35
pwnguinnomis: already did00:35
fdvtorindel: yeah, I backup up the photos :)00:36
fdvthe list got a lot shorter after removing testing, btw. thanks for the tip :)00:36
wazdxorAxAx: it's NOT in extras right now00:36
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niekt0hmm, moving 20MB from /var/lib/dpkg/info freed only 2MB, this must be massively hardlinked00:38
xorAxAxwazd: i know00:38
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xorAxAxniekt0: compressed00:38
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:42
DocScrutinizer51nite00:42
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xorAxAxso, there is no away state. but what should i do if the phone is running at night but i  am sleeping?00:44
pupnikpwnguin: i got online update with <41MB free today00:44
fdvuhm. does the app manager use somewhere else than /var/cache to download packages to? It's way too small00:45
xorAxAxi guess one would have to switch all services to off00:45
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pwnguinpupnik: well it keeps telling me i need to use the damn PC tool00:45
pupnikerrors in editing rx-51 xkb file seem to have eliminated ability to boot00:45
xorAxAxpwnguin: because of conflicts00:45
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mikhasniekt0, reboot the device to regain the freed blocks00:45
pupnikit would be nice if maemo6 could boot to last-known-good-state00:46
SplasPoodhrm, I thought the firmware update was supposed to be OTA?   It keeps tellin me I need to install via NSU00:46
nomis~help-update00:46
infobothelp-update is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting00:46
SplasPoodnomis: danke, sorry for the FAQ00:46
SyncAsplaspood it seems to be due to devel apps00:46
SplasPooddef have a bunch of those00:46
nomisSplasPood: np.00:46
Gadgetoidooo digging pymaemo-optify00:46
nomispymaemo-optify creatively abuses mounting  :)00:47
xorAxAxpwnguin: tryy apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr00:47
Gadgetoidnomis hahaha too true00:47
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Gadgetoidit spams the hell out of my df output00:47
SyncApymaemo was pushed to my device as an update, is it a systemfile or a devel app?00:48
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pwnguinxorAxAx: package not found?00:49
niekt0ok, it safe to link /var/cache/apt and /var/lib/apt/lists/ but not /var/lib/dpkg/info;)00:49
xorAxAxpwnguin: then something is seriously broken00:50
MaemohammadAGniekt0, yeah00:50
xorAxAxpwnguin: or you have a typo00:50
pwnguinxorAxAx: what repo is it in?00:51
DocScrutinizer51reative abuse?.gimme details ;-P00:51
xorAxAxhttps://downloads.maemo.nokia.com00:51
pwnguinxorAxAx: ovi?00:52
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xorAxAxpwnguin: no00:52
xorAxAxthe main software repo00:52
pwnguinupdates?00:52
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AranelHow can I create themes for Maemo?00:53
DocScrutinizer51well. 2 topics for today's night: 1) let Stskeeps teach me how to create a *flashable* backup. 2) implemet ruskie's augmented partitioning (and maybe even exploit new bootmenu.sh hook)00:54
pwnguinxorAxAx: you missed a 00200:54
pwnguinmp-fremantle-002-pr00:54
SyncAis there anyone with kernel knowladge that can have a look at my post on maemo5 forum?00:54
Aranelnew transition effects are waay bad :/ Can I revert back to old ones?00:54
xorAxAxpwnguin: then you have a different repo than me, maybe because you are not in europe, are you?00:55
pwnguinxorAxAx: im in the US00:55
xorAxAxpwnguin: see, thats likely the reason :)00:56
xorAxAxpwnguin: is your 002 package installed?00:56
DocScrutinizer51please helpme out. what's transitions?00:56
niekt0btw: is there any significand difference between US and global version of firmware?00:56
pwnguinxorAxAx: Installed: 1.2009.44-1.002 Candidate: 2.2009.51-1.00200:56
SyncADocScrutinizer51, its an app to change the transition between landscape and portrait info on maemo.org00:57
pwnguinxorAxAx: apparently i dont have enough space for the apt-cache =/00:58
xorAxAxpwnguin: and apt-get install on that package would work? (and ask for yes)?00:58
pwnguinxorAxAx: not enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives00:58
xorAxAxok00:58
xorAxAxthen move it to opt :)00:58
xorAxAxwith a symlink00:58
pwnguinwhat i dont get is why i have to do this when nobody else seems to00:59
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Gadgetoidyahhr does ye olde irc bot know where the changelog is?00:59
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DocScrutinizer51pwnguin: seems quite some ppl do00:59
DocScrutinizer51I did but didn't help to free the needed 42MB01:00
DocScrutinizer51today01:00
DocScrutinizer51so now I'm in for a radical solution01:00
Gadgetoidpwnguin i had to apt-get dist-upgrade01:00
Gadgetoidtook 30mins for me with a brief stop to dpkg configure when i ran out of space01:01
SyncADocScrutinizer51,  you disabled the repos?01:01
DocScrutinizer51err nope iirc01:02
pwnguinalright. wonder what i should do with the existing apt/archives/ files01:03
SyncAor are you having all the apps available + a fair share not available yet?01:03
SyncAif you disable all repos accept th nokia update you free up allot of space in rootfs01:04
Gadgetoidpwnguin  ...  mv /var/cache/apt /opt/apt-cache  ?01:05
Gadgetoidln -s /opt/apt-cache /var/cache/apt01:05
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Gadgetoidthen apt-get install pymaemo-optify01:06
mecehttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.101:08
Gadgetoidicon cache outright removed... interesting01:08
Gadgetoidi always optify my icon cache01:09
ivan4thWoohoo!!! my repartitioned phone booted ok after installing PR1.1 via apt-get (over ssh) and fixing boot scripts before rebooting! I was REALLY expecting the brick!!!01:09
xorAxAxivan4th: congrats. how did you modify the scripts so quickly?01:09
xorAxAxivan4th: because it disables all applications and wifi/ssh, right?01:10
Targethehe congrats, anyone tried dualbooting mer or android yet on N900? Should be possible with new bootloader..01:10
pwnguinandroid?01:10
Targetyeah, it was possible on the previous internet tablets01:11
pwnguinsomehow i doubt android supports the n900 cell radio01:11
Targetphonestack seems to be inaccesible from other OSes though01:11
ivan4thxorAxAx: no, apt-get doesn't disable anything. I was even silly enough to do it all over wifi. But it didn't go offline either01:11
Gadgetoidwait.. the n900 is a phone??01:11
Targetyeah, its closed by Nokia01:11
t7g__Not sure they have the rights to just release the source to the phone stack though, could be code from other places that aren't so nice about it.01:12
xorAxAxivan4th: ah, you used apt-get01:12
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Targetivan4th: it did disable all connections for me during update01:12
mecepwnguin, if it's not allowing you to install from ham, remove quake3, qt4-phonon, qt4-webkit if you have them and try again.01:12
xorAxAxTarget: there is ofono01:12
Targetused apt-get as wel01:12
meceham installation requires less rootfs space apparently.01:12
ivan4thTarget: I think it was application manager. I didn't use it01:12
ivan4thsorry01:12
ivan4thstrange01:13
pwnguinmece: i know i got rid of qt4-phonon and webkit01:13
ivan4thTarget: maybe I'm just lucky... I did use GNU Screen to be able to reattach the session just in case though01:13
mecepwnguin, and it didn't work apparently?01:13
pwnguinmece: it didnt free enough space01:13
meceooh01:14
mece.01:14
mece:)01:14
pwnguinmece: im pretty sure i also removed q301:14
mecehow much do you have?01:14
pwnguinlike 5301:14
pwnguinmaybe 54MB01:14
mecepwnguin should be plenty01:14
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mecefor ham installation01:14
pwnguinmece: unless you live in the US01:14
Targetxorax: check http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39400 for ofono info, sweet :)01:14
mecepwnguin, orly?01:14
pwnguinmece: from what i can tell, we have a different firmware01:15
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mecepwnguin, the us version bigger?01:15
Targetso android + phone support is a possibility? do i understand that correct?01:15
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pwnguinmece: or pulls in more packagegs01:15
xorAxAxTarget: if somebody starts integrating it, sure01:15
Targetthat is just so incredibly awesome :D01:16
pwnguinmece: i need 90MB in apt cache it seems01:16
mecepwnguin, makes no sense, but if it says it needs more space..01:16
pwnguinmece: so i told apt to use a dir on the eMMC01:16
mecepwnguin, ham doesn't use apt cache01:16
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pwnguinmece: im sure it stores packages somewhere before installing01:16
mecepwnguin, yes, but not in rootfs.01:17
meceapt cache only affects apt.01:17
SpeedEvilpwnguin: /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-cache-directory01:17
pwnguinSpeedEvil: did something similar01:17
SpeedEvilor some similarly named dir is where it put the 90M download when I let it01:17
SpeedEvilI did not have to configure this.01:17
pwnguinmece: at any rate, HAM refuses to proceed with no reason in mind01:17
pwnguinerr, no reason given01:18
mecepwnguin, what does it say then?01:18
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DocScrutinizer51Stskeeps: ping01:18
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pwnguinjust says, go flash with NSU01:18
SpeedEvil .apt-archive-cache even01:18
mecepwnguin, that means you have conflicting packages.01:18
SpeedEvilpwnguin: have you seen the howto page?01:18
pwnguinmece: except i dont01:18
ivan4thxorAxAx: btw, after apt-get finished and i fixed the new /etc/event.d/rcS-late using vi, I rebooted the device with 'reboot' command. It went into tight reboot loop with Nokia logo on the white background. I thought it's all over (brick), but after doing power-off+power-on it booted without any problems01:18
meceif you have too little space it says so.01:18
mecepwnguin, how do you know?01:19
pwnguinmece: ive checked with apt, there's no conflict. it's upgrading as we speak01:19
mrmgo/01:19
mecepwnguin, apt doesn't care about the conflicts.01:19
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mecepwnguin, well if it's updating, I guess you're set.01:19
pwnguini assure you, apt resolves or fails conflicts01:19
mecepwnguin, sure does.01:19
mecepwnguin, but ham does more thorough checks i've been told. Hence the problem.01:20
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mecepwnguin, which is not really a problem, since you can use apt instead.01:21
pwnguinmece: im not even sure what that could mean. more thourough checks01:21
mecepwnguin, well it was timeless or konttori who explained it.01:21
mecepwnguin, I don't remember the details.01:21
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timeless_mbp?01:21
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mecetimeless_mbp, we talked about this ham vs apt for updating this morning01:22
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SpeedEvilSo - I've just updated today. WHEN ARE NOKIA RELEASING NEXT UPDATE!!! DELABRAKER!01:22
wazdbuilder failed again :(01:23
pwnguinSpeedEvil: no kidding. i still dont get my *# shortcodes?01:23
mecelol01:23
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pwnguinUSSD or bust!01:23
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: who is dela?01:23
* SpeedEvil finds that you don't have to scroll all the way back in app-list, the app-installer keeps its place in list.01:23
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: yep that was a listed fix01:23
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SpeedEvilI missed that when going through the fixes.01:23
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SpeedEvilA couple of my minor niggles addressed at least.01:24
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mecewhat was jaffa's application menu enhancement called again?01:25
SpeedEvilWhat does alarmd do that cron doesn't?01:25
meceah yes. catorise.01:25
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: i think alarmd can wake the system up from being 'off'01:25
timeless_mbpcan cron do that?01:25
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woglindejo01:26
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grishnavDoes anyone have the changelog for today's maemo update?01:26
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toggles_wSpeedEvil: annoys me01:26
mecehttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.101:26
grishnavthanks01:27
woglindeyeah01:27
meceI'm off. goodnight01:27
woglindeupdate01:27
DocScrutinizer51crond shouldn't do that01:27
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Asgerlundhello there :) i would like to say that i am amazed by this os and the possibility to join an irc network from my n900 :D01:27
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woglindehm home-applet-tutorial01:27
grishnavAsgerlund: What IRC client are you using?01:28
DocScrutinizer51system's not supposed to *power up* from cron01:28
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derfSpeedEvil: alarmd confuses users with poor documentation making it impossible to use.01:28
derfcron doesn't do that.01:28
DocScrutinizer51cron should resume from suspend. luckily we have no suspend on omap platform01:29
derfWell, perhaps not impossible, but it got over my energy threshold of caring.01:29
DocScrutinizer51or we don't use it01:29
SpeedEvilI also wonder why it uses a couple of meg more RAM than cron01:29
Asgerlundgrishnav im using xchat :) you?01:29
mrmgirsii01:30
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: alarmd? MEG??? o.O01:31
grishnavAsgerlund: I haven't installed an IRC client on my n900 yet, that's why I'm curious as to what people are using. :)01:31
simula_xchat works for me01:31
pwnguingrishnav: can you imagine a telepathy irc client?01:31
fnordianslipxchat ftw01:32
DocScrutinizer51seems we need compare alarmd to fso-atd01:32
nomismhm, it is probably pointless to file a bug against clock, that complains about the lack of a stop-watch and a countdown?01:32
el_zilchosimula_: why are you not enjoying the relaxing tropics?01:32
woglindelol01:32
el_zilchoi forwarded you a nasa email about some annular eclipse01:32
el_zilchoftr01:32
woglindeonly 50 mb in /var/cache01:32
DocScrutinizer51so few01:32
woglindeseems I should make a symlink01:32
el_zilchook01:33
el_zilchoexcept i think you're not who i think you are01:33
el_zilchonm01:33
DocScrutinizer51nomis: u bet it is01:33
el_zilchothinking of asimulator01:33
Asgerlundim using xchat and its working perfectly. i would like a slightly bigger screen, but then again you cant get it all ;) i think xchat is in either extras or extrastesting01:33
DocScrutinizer51if u need stopwatch then compile one for your platform01:34
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pwnguinAsgerlund: if you need a bigger screen, use the tv out ;)01:34
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pupniki wish for a console-only runlevel01:34
DocScrutinizer51Asgerlund: try ctrl-CR01:35
simula_pupnik, some folks have installed gentoo on the n900...01:35
nomisDocScrutinizer51: it is so funny. There seems to be the scheme of "applications can start up with three big icons to let the user choose". And the clock developer going like, "Ok, We need a list of Alarms. And. Uh. Worldclocks, that have no real effect elsewhere. And. And. Uh. A redundant button duplicating the functionality of the first button in the alarm list. Yeah. That is sane."01:36
SpeedEvilPlease ignore me about alarmd - I seem to have been slightly confused.01:36
woglindehi pupnik01:36
Asgerlundhaha true pwnguin. ctrl what? and what would that do? :) yeah but my tv sadly only have dvi and hdmi :)01:36
DocScrutinizer51Asgerlund: major pita of xchat is scrolling in buffer01:36
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pupnikgoing back to n810 is like widescreen monitor.  morning woglinde01:36
wazdok, builder hates me :(01:36
woglindewazd hihih01:36
DocScrutinizer51nomis: ack ;-P01:37
mikhaswazd, all build bots are evil =(01:37
ml-N900they are01:37
wazdFailed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/h/hildon-theme-layout-5/hildon-theme-layout-5_0.13.2-1+0m5_all.deb  Size mismatch01:37
ml-N900i wrote some myself01:37
Asgerlundand it is sick that you can do file tranfers through xchat as well!01:37
SpeedEvil(I made a list of stuff by Pss, and then looked at teh Virt column.01:37
SpeedEvilDoh01:37
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wazd~burn himself01:37
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze01:37
pwnguinps is not a good measure of ram usage in the presence of shared libraries01:38
timeless_mbpderf: you're kidding right01:38
timeless_mbpto claim that cron documentation doesn't confuse users01:38
timeless_mbp.... nonsense01:38
timeless_mbpand you know it01:38
Asgerlunddoes anybody know why i cant delete any files? they all say that they are write protected?01:39
derftimeless_mbp: Well, perhaps I should say, I know how to use cron.01:39
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nomisthe longer I use cron, the less I understand it.01:39
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derfAnd I can't make heads or tails of how to get alarmd to do the same things.01:39
pwnguinAsgerlund: media files, or system files?01:39
grishnavpwnguin: IRC + OTR support for XMPP (and... GASP... skype?!?) would be fucking A-MAZ-ING01:39
SplasPoodblah, root fs space bites me again :(01:39
timeless_mbpnomis: both stop watch and countdown have been down by third parties01:39
SpeedEvilpwnguin: pss01:40
timeless_mbpbut yes, it's pointless01:40
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derfIt's probably been a decade or more since I actually looked at cron documentation.01:40
timeless_mbpthe ui designers all had access to iPod Touches and iPhones01:40
timeless_mbpthey chose to be stupid01:40
timeless_mbpok, that's unfair01:40
Asgerlundmedia files and deb packages as well? pwnguin both in documents and downloads folder?01:40
SpeedEvilpwnguin: pss is a better measure as I understand it - /proc/*/smap01:40
derfThis is one of the reasons for using something that people already know.01:40
timeless_mbpthey were almost certainly ordered not to work on the clock at all01:40
timeless_mbpthe clock hasn't really changed since the 77001:40
nomistimeless_mbp: true, but the clock application would be the point to implement it in a nice and consistent way.01:40
wazdanyone knows what does that error means?01:40
timeless_mbpnomis: oh, i'm not arguing that01:40
timeless_mbpnomis: if you want the clock to do it, please complain to nokia care01:41
timeless_mbpand get your friends to joim you01:41
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timeless_mbps/m/n/01:41
infobottimeless_mbp meant: and get your friends to join you01:41
nomistimeless_mbp: I just sometimes don't understand how such descisions happen.01:41
timeless_mbpcare is supposed to aggregte complaints01:41
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timeless_mbpnomis: clock is part of a group of applications which iirc was "complementary applications"01:41
DocScrutinizer51fsckng umts blackholes01:41
timeless_mbproughly it was put together quickly and then abandoned01:41
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timeless_mbpthe resources were assigned to other tasks01:42
SpeedEviltimeless: which means you can only be nice to them?01:42
timeless_mbpminimal maintenance work allowed01:42
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: people who no longer exist or are busy doing other things?01:42
timeless_mbpbut who only did what they were ordered to do?01:42
* timeless_mbp shrugs01:42
nomistimeless_mbp: I recently met someone from nokia and she asked me for my opinion about the n900. In hindsight I feel a little bad, because I showed her a lot of glaring usability problems...01:42
timeless_mbpthursday (yesterday for me), i want to an Expat forum01:42
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timeless_mbpnomis: what was her job title?01:42
nomis...and don't get me started about the map application.01:43
Asgerlundpwnguin any idea?01:43
timeless_mbpnomis: which map application?01:43
timeless_mbpi worked w/ sp3000 to fix the clock's map01:43
timeless_mbpbut it missed 1.101:43
nomistimeless_mbp: not sure, she works in Berlin but I am not sure what division she works in.01:43
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wazdmeheheh, I've Rickrolled Murtazin :D01:43
nomistimeless_mbp: the ovi maps.01:43
* DocScrutinizer51 has a ? above head01:43
woglindehm former gate5 I guess01:43
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timeless_mbpnomis: nokia is huge01:44
pwnguinAsgerlund: that sounds not good. and you're doing thsi from the device itself?01:44
nomistimeless_mbp: yeah.01:44
timeless_mbpif should wasn't gate5, she could be Qt or ...01:44
SplasPoodCan someone explain to me the reasoning behind making / 256MB or so, or point me to something that does?01:44
nomistimeless_mbp: I am not sure, sorry.01:44
timeless_mbpif she's Gate5 and you showed her bugs in Maps, great :)01:44
timeless_mbpoh, i don't really care01:44
pwnguinSplasPood: the flash chip it boots from is 256MB. easy enough01:44
timeless_mbpideally engineers working on a product are well aware of their flaws01:45
timeless_mbpin which case you should be preaching to the choir01:45
SplasPoodpwnguin: oh, hah, for some reason I thought it was just a portion of the whole01:45
timeless_mbpwhich is probably not particularly useful01:45
Asgerlundpwnguin yes i am just accessing the folders and pressing delete. and no matter what file or folder i try and delete it says it is protected.01:45
pwnguinSplasPood: lemme find a wiki on this01:45
pwnguinhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem01:45
SplasPooddanke01:46
timeless_mbpotoh, it shows that you care01:46
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timeless_mbpwhich is sometimes useful01:46
nomistimeless_mbp: I have started filing bugs...01:46
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timeless_mbp:)01:46
woglindehm01:46
woglindeomap3camd01:46
ml-N900512MByte OneNAND is quite new, but 1GB is approaching01:46
SpeedEvilawk 'FNR==1{name=$NF}/^Pss/{split(FILENAME,a,"/"); names[a[3]]=name;pid[a[3]]+=$2}END{for(x in pid){print x"\t"pid[x]"\t"names[x];sum+=pid[x]};print sum}' /proc/*/smaps|sort -nk201:47
SpeedEvilhmm01:47
* SpeedEvil is unsure why this does not sum to used memory.01:47
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nomisSpeedEvil: compressing file system?01:47
ivan4thbtw I thought that rootfs on OneNAND is much faster than ext2 on eMMC, but in practice after repartioning & moving /usr to eMMC I didn't notice any slowdowns01:47
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SpeedEvilnomis: used RAM01:48
nomisah sorry.01:48
timeless_mbpml-N900: and will be quite expensive01:48
nomis...compressing ram?  ;)01:48
DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp: please don't get me started about poor EE and about poor sw devel not listening to competent EE01:48
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SpeedEvilnomis: no - not RAM01:48
timeless_mbpincreasing cost for products is not typically a goal of nokia01:48
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timeless_mbpivan4th: you managed to move the entire /usr to the eMMC?01:49
woglindehm oh wasnt aware eglibc is used01:49
hardakerruh oh....  bricked my phone I think.01:49
niekt0 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797201:49
povbotBug 7972: Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found01:49
hardakeranyone know how to turn on boot text during boot?01:49
DocScrutinizer51timeless: you see, on OM I'm waiting a year(!) now for kernel devels to implement WSOD fix I suggested01:49
niekt0hardaker> you need own/modified kernel01:49
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pwnguinhardaker: ive seen suggestions to edit the bootloader but uh, too late for that01:49
hardakergrr...01:50
hardakeryou'd think they'd have a boot check for that.01:50
niekt0hardaker:> for example http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Kernel#Installing_my_custom_kernel which is problematic right now01:50
lardmanoh the pain of trying to compile python packages01:50
nomistimeless_mbp: oh, I just realize that the update did some good things for the map application.01:50
hardakerdiagnostics mode or something.01:50
timeless_mbpnomis: which update?01:50
timeless_mbpand which map?01:50
ml-N900If the chips were pin compatible and the underfill npt too strong, I'd see about borrowing our SMD rework station... (just kidding)01:50
* hardaker wonders if it was the partial update that bricked it.01:50
nomistimeless_mbp: to 51.1. Still the ovi maps thing.01:50
timeless_mbpyes 51-1 made ovi maps suck a little less01:51
timeless_mbpit's still wrong side up01:51
w00twrong side up?01:51
niekt0hardaker> major update01:51
SpeedEvilml-N900: underfill isn't often used in these sorts of apps01:51
nomisat least now there is an "x" in the title bar instead of these weird five dots that behave unexpectedly.01:51
timeless_mbpw00t: when you use  a map, do you typically go north or south?01:51
timeless_mbpnomis: have you tapped the bottom right corner yet?01:51
ml-N900SpeedEvil: if not, I know some people who would be happy to hear that...01:52
timeless_mbpw00t: if you typically go north, do you want a big object sitting in the way of where you're going?01:52
w00ttimeless_mbp: I see01:52
timeless_mbpw00t: or put another way01:52
nomistimeless_mbp: yeah.01:52
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w00ttimeless_mbp: I'm rather used to google maps tbh :-)01:52
hardakerniekt0: yeah, it tried to update 3 things (one being the major maemo bundle) and complained about not enough disk space, so I removed a few things and rebooted.  It had already updated the other lame things (tutorial, and something else)01:52
timeless_mbpdo you usual want all of your dashboard gauges to occupy the portion of the windscreen showing where you're driving01:52
timeless_mbpso you can't see the car in front of you, so you can crash into it in blissful ignorance :)01:52
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timeless_mbpin map turns, that's so you can miss the critically important intersection/turn because it was covered by a box.01:53
timeless_mbpw00t: have you installed maemo-location or whatever it is?01:53
SpeedEvilml-N900: I may be wrong - but AIUI it's only for really large chips.01:53
nomisheh, they use the "back" arrow for the options thing, but a "map" icon for the places and routes.01:53
w00ttimeless_mbp: I can't remember, probably01:53
SpeedEvilml-N900: that generate lots of heat.01:53
timeless_mbpw00t: the one that lets you use gps w/ google maps in the browser :)01:54
SpeedEvilml-N900: I haven't yet soldered on my n900.01:54
w00tyes, then01:54
timeless_mbpmaemo-geolocation01:54
timeless_mbpsorry01:54
timeless_mbpi'm quite happy about it :)01:54
pwnguingoes google maps use geolocation?01:54
SpeedEvilpwnguin: it can01:54
timeless_mbppwnguin: if you install maemo-geolocation, yes01:54
w00tovi's foot navigation (at least) is on fucking crack, btw.01:54
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timeless_mbpyou just tap the dot near the zoom buttons01:54
w00tit gets me there, sure, but it takes the weirdest damn routes :P01:54
pwnguinhuh, i figured they'd leave that as an incentive to buy android01:54
timeless_mbpflickr too iirc01:54
timeless_mbpw00t: if you have amusing examples, please file bugs01:55
timeless_mbppreferably w/ proper steps to reproduce01:55
timeless_mbp(don't include gps coords, do include specific start+end points)01:55
w00ttimeless_mbp: they're not too odd for an application really01:55
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SplasPoodhow much space is needed to install the update?01:55
SpeedEvilMyuch of it is not a ovi maps problem.01:55
SpeedEvilIt will be a data quality problem.01:56
w00t(as in, I've never seen a router give me directions that were as good as a person's)01:56
SpeedEvilWhich is probably mostly pulled from teleatlas/*01:56
pwnguinSplasPood: in my experience 90MB =(01:56
woglinde SplasPood you can workaround the cache01:56
woglindehttp://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space01:56
SplasPoodhrm.. good point01:56
SplasPoodyea, I forgot about that section01:56
* timeless_mbp looks for andrew black01:56
SpeedEvilyou do _not_ need 90M free01:56
SplasPood(keep gettin distracted at work)01:56
SplasPoodbeen waitin all day to do this :)01:56
w00toh, while I remember01:56
w00tanyone here a midori user?01:56
SpeedEvilIt works by installing lots of little packages. And caches them into MyDocs before it uses them01:56
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SpeedEvilI had ~44M free when I upgraded01:57
w00tit seems to enjoy segfaulting on startup for me and I'm not sure why, nor who to contact about it01:57
SplasPoodI'm at 37.601:57
w00t(if it's reproducable)01:57
hardakerI'd give you my script to calculate the biggest packages under /...  but it's no my dead phone.01:57
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SplasPoodhardaker: hah, yea that'd be helpful :)01:57
hardakerI worked well.  I used it to figure out what sucked up the most space on my device.01:57
hardakerassuming I can ever boot it again, I'll be happy to send it along (sigh)01:58
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: same here01:58
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w00tnobody, anybody?01:58
DocScrutinizer51had to ininstall rounabout 2 dozen apps01:59
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woglindehm new dsplibs too01:59
DocScrutinizer51woglinde: hmÄ02:00
DocScrutinizer51?02:01
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woglindeapt-cache search dsplibs02:03
DocScrutinizer51what,s that?02:03
pwnguinprobably the firmware for the dsp, or a library to access it02:04
DocScrutinizer51audio?02:04
pwnguinand video?02:04
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DocScrutinizer51yeah02:05
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SpeedEvilSmell!02:06
woglindeargssssss02:08
woglindeNo space left on device02:08
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DocScrutinizer51woglinde: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie#Repartitioning02:09
* lardman curses libraries that include FORTRAN for seeming to take an awfully long time to compile02:10
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DocScrutinizer51lardman: ADA, much better02:10
lardmanpah!02:11
lardmanFORTRAN is the one and only ;) way to do mathematics... apparently02:11
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DocScrutinizer51bah. COBOL here02:11
lardmanlol02:12
woglindehihi02:12
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lardmanhey woglinde02:12
DocScrutinizer51ADD 5 TO 7 GIVING X02:12
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shinkamuiholy backne batman!02:12
lardmanyeah, I can't see myself writing FE code with that ;)02:13
shinkamuithe update pr1.1 was today?02:13
shinkamuiI just saw a 90meg update that apparently requires the pc to update02:13
DocScrutinizer51DIVIDE X BY 5 GIVING R REMAINDER FRAC02:13
woglindehm one hour for update02:13
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woglindethats bad02:13
Vrathahi02:13
shinkamuihas anyone been able to to the update ota?02:14
Vrathamine is downloading now02:14
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woglindeshinkamui I am running it02:14
Vrathai was using the Nexus One at work and didn't have a chance to get this until now02:14
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Vrathawoglinde: did they do much to improve the UI?02:14
shinkamuiwoglinde, mine fails02:14
woglindeI said I run the upgrade02:14
shinkamuiwhen I download it it says this update must be applied from a pc02:14
woglindeshinkamui -> http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space02:15
Vrathawhat i want to do is install starcraft on it :)02:15
DocScrutinizer51shinkamui: accomplished02:15
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TTilusshinkamui: did yo do PR1.0.1?02:15
shinkamuiyes02:15
shinkamuiI have pr 1.0102:15
DocScrutinizer51~help-update02:15
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infobothelp-update is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting02:15
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DocScrutinizer51~tell shinkamui about help-update02:16
Vrathais the infobot running on an n900?  :-P02:16
shinkamuithanks doc, Im reading it now02:16
TTilushum, then02:16
shinkamuiwell it can't be not enough space in the apt archive02:17
shinkamuiI relinked that a long time ago02:17
Vrathadownloaded the update.  now it's applying the update02:18
Vrathahopefully all goes well02:18
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woglindevratha now you can go eat02:18
woglindelast half an hour the update02:18
DocScrutinizer51FIRST: Pr1.1 update seems intended to be applied thru HAM *exclusively*02:19
DocScrutinizer51NO apt02:19
DocScrutinizer51NO shell02:19
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TTiluslardman: FORTRAN nowhere near mathematics, Prolog is way closer  ;)02:19
Vrathawoglinde: nice.  i've already been stuffing my face :)02:20
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Vrathaom nom nom02:20
* DocScrutinizer51 queeeks and hides02:20
Vrathai gotta say i love what they've done with the Nexus One, but I'm hoping solid apps and a refined UI come for maemo02:21
Vrathamaking phone calls on the n900 isn't the most thrilling experience in the world :'(02:21
DocScrutinizer51~beat lisp with prolog02:21
SpeedEvilWhat's annoying you about the UI?02:21
* infobot beats lisp with prolog with a very wet, sticky noodle02:21
SpeedEvilAnd have you filed bugs on it?02:21
Vrathano portrait mode.  "switch off" on-screen key is right next to the sound profile switcher.  skype requires the full country code and can't have a default set02:22
lardmanTTilus: depends if you want to think about it or actually do some calcs I guess ;)02:22
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Vrathai filed a bug related to the skype country codes02:22
Vrathaoh, and no email search02:22
lardmanTTilus: but I'm an engineer anyway, so who cares02:22
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Vrathaother than that, it mostly seems alright, except when some app crashes or whatever02:22
redeemanVratha: theres portrait mode in the dialier02:22
Vratharedeeman: yeah, but i'd like a more consistent use of portrait mode, like, say, when i want to bring up the dialer02:23
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Vrathaor if i want to use an on-screen keyboard and text message someone02:23
Vrathathings like that02:23
Vrathamainly for when i have to use one hand only, which is more often than you'd think02:23
lardmananyway night all02:23
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simula_night lardman02:24
woglindeah02:24
woglindenow at setting up stage02:25
shinkamuidamn it02:25
shinkamuiit just refuses to install fo rme02:25
shinkamuiI might have to flash02:25
woglindeshinkamui hm have you ssh or rootsh installed?02:26
shinkamuiand I only have 64bit win7 and 64bit ubuntu systems02:26
shinkamuiI have both woglinde02:26
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woglindewhats df saying?02:26
shinkamuido I have to remove one or them02:26
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shinkamuihold on, Im rerunning it one more time after doing an apt-get update at the terminal02:26
shinkamuihoping I had some pending updates that were preventing it02:27
woglindeluckly I only had to delete the packages I installed third party so far02:27
woglindegdb navit02:27
woglindelibc6-dbg02:27
shinkamuiMaemo 5 2.2009.51-1.002 90.0mb02:27
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DocScrutinizer51ADD BREZELKUCHEN TO ANDROMEDA, THEN MOVE CORRESPONDING ANDROMEDA TO ATOM, AFTER SUBTRACT 2 FROM ELECTRON INATOM02:28
woglindeapt-get distupgrade02:28
shinkamuiMAemo update: To update your device to this version of the opeating system you must use the Nokia software update application on your pc02:28
shinkamuiI thought I shouldn't do the update using the console02:28
woglindeflasher should run with ia32-libs02:28
woglinde~flasher02:28
nomisBrezelkuchen sounds tasty.02:28
infobot[flasher] http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher02:28
shinkamuiwaht do you think, distupgrade or try the reflash in a VM02:28
shinkamuimy ubuntu box is on a system with very unstable USB02:29
shinkamuidevices randomly disconnect, I wouldn't risk it with a flash operation02:29
Vratha51% complete02:29
shinkamuinothing is plugged into the USB but keybaord/mouse02:29
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woglindeshinkamui dist-upgrade02:30
DocScrutinizer51shinkamui: you can't brick N90002:30
woglindeI had no problems here after the dis was full02:30
woglindeand delete some stuff02:31
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pwnguinwhat did you delete?02:31
shinkamuiok, Ill try it, worst case scenario, Ill just reflash it in the vm, if that fails, I can always install XP 32bit on this turion laptop I have02:31
woglindeso now lets try reboot02:31
pwnguinwoglinde: my damn phone filled up =(02:32
woglindepwnguin the packages I wrote02:32
dockaneraskelisutbogfk4001M02:32
woglindeI didnt installed this much02:32
woglindefrom extras02:32
shinkamuiwoglinde,  I just relinked /var/cache/apt/archive to /opt a long time ago02:32
shinkamuiI have tons of crap in there now02:32
shinkamui:)02:32
woglindehm / has now 5mb free02:32
shinkamuiit freed up like 70megs on / too02:32
shinkamuialso I relink everything I download from extras-dev if its a game02:33
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DocScrutinizer51woglinde: OUCH02:33
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DocScrutinizer51I just uninstalled all the crap I haven't used for 2 days. can install in bno time any time02:34
woglindehm ah02:35
Vrathawhat i do is ride the wave of danger.  i push / up past 90%02:35
woglindenow the bootup flash is through02:35
Vrathasometimes i hit 110% when i'm going full throttle02:35
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woglindeyeah phone is up again02:36
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Vrathawhen it says there's no space left, i just punch in rm -rf / and let it run for a couple seconds.  then i cancel the operation and try to find out what i can't do anymore02:36
Vrathait's a wave of danger!  my phone and i live life one command at a time02:36
woglindecratha lol02:36
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woglindeargs02:37
woglindesecond cam is still in bad state02:37
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woglindeah after the update i hav 50mb free again02:39
Vrathaemail seems snappier02:39
Vrathaman, the fucking web browser keeps forgetting bookmarks i've added02:40
Vrathawtf02:40
woglindeyeah ovi maps02:40
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woglindeVratha he didnt you make the backup as suggested?02:40
DocScrutinizer51eerks ovi maps02:40
Vrathawoglinde: no, in general, the browser forgets bookmarks02:40
Vrathathey just don't show in the list anymore02:41
Proteousdo the show up on your desktop instead?02:41
Vrathano, i add them to the browser list of bookmarks02:41
DocScrutinizer51had 42M free in root before update, 33 now02:42
redeemani had same free after as before02:42
DocScrutinizer51I go for02:43
DocScrutinizer51woglinde: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie#Repartitioning02:43
pwnguinok, so NSU question: do i need mass storage or PC suite mode to flash it?02:43
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DocScrutinizer51next 24h02:43
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DocScrutinizer51pwnguin: flashing is unrelated to mass storage02:44
pwnguinso pc suite02:44
DocScrutinizer51bbiab02:45
pwnguinlkjasdfl;sjsf02:45
pwnguin"device not supported"02:45
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grishnavpwnguin: weird. works fine for me lulz02:46
grishnavpwnguin: though I haven't tested it yet with PR1.102:46
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hardakerugh.  well, at least I know how to flash the phone now.02:47
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thomazfinally got my n900 with internet via usb :)02:48
woglindewaahaah02:48
woglindeQS failed02:48
woglindeat gps-settings02:49
Vrathaalright, the ovi maps does look much improved02:49
woglindecratha yupp02:49
ifreqVratha: good to hear02:49
Vrathastill needs turn-by-turn though, a way to make the text a lot bigger, and proper use of the "blue shift key"02:49
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Vrathai.e. click the "blue shift key", then click "w" and get "2" to appear.  right now i have to hold them at the same time for tha to happen in the maps app02:50
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pwnguinVratha: what if you press and hold w02:51
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jebbahmm, i still don't see the PR1.1 in HAM. Is it still being rolled out to places and hasn't yet arrived?02:53
SplasPoodhrm.. after upgrade it doesnt' seem to wanna do DNS resolution02:53
jebbaor anyone know which repo it is being fed from?02:53
woglindejebba as announced step by step02:53
woglindeseems .ar will become it late02:53
DocScrutinizer51jebba: no problem here02:53
DocScrutinizer51standard repos02:53
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DocScrutinizer51location Germany02:54
SplasPoodAnyone had DNS trouble02:54
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DocScrutinizer51no02:54
tripzerowhat is maemo doing for voice recognition (if any) ?02:54
SplasPoodhrm...02:54
SplasPoodDoes it store DNS info in /etc/resolv.conf like normal?02:54
DocScrutinizer51tripzero: nuttin so far02:55
DocScrutinizer51get rich!.:-)02:55
ifreqSplasPood: yeah had today (but thought it was more ISP prob)02:55
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jebbaok, probably gotta wait til tomorrow then.02:56
jebbaoh wait, i see it in a apt-get upgrade....02:56
ifreqSplasPood: tryed to reboot?02:56
SplasPoodifreq: not after the upgrade rebooted..  will try02:56
ifreqhad today some prob with 3G/2G.. but wifi was ok.. was def. ISP issue :P02:57
SplasPoodyea, this is on wifi for me02:57
SplasPoodwas workin fine 3 seconds before the upgrade02:57
jebba1040 upgraded in 90 megs wowza02:57
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shinkamuidfdamn02:59
shinkamuididnt' work02:59
shinkamuigonna have to use the flasher I guess03:00
shinkamuiin the VM03:00
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DocScrutinizer51http://www.google.com/m?q=i+got+me+three+beers+and+a++++clowns03:01
DocScrutinizer51night03:01
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exesdoes Maemo run only on the Nokia platforms?03:04
jebbay03:04
shinkamuilot of people ask that03:05
SpeedEvilyes03:05
tripzeroshould run on anything03:05
pwnguinexes: people have reported running Mer on other platforms03:05
SpeedEvilWel - yes - if you write a qemu target for the n900, then maemo can run on anything.03:05
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woglindeokay time to go to bed again03:11
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DocScrutinizer51exes: yes. maemo is nokia. mer is FOSS. see wiki03:12
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DocScrutinizer51http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLTrGt2Yf6I03:15
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nomishuh, importing a vcard file apparently ignores the UID and duplicates phonebook entries  :-/03:15
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hardakerwell, in the end the re-flash, restore from backup process is relatively painless.  And ya gotta like the fact that the flash instructions discuss doing it from linux first ;-)03:18
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derfSo how do I disable the media scanner?03:19
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shinkamuigotta reboot03:21
shinkamuigonna try XP mode03:21
odin_can I list all packages installed via a specific repositoriy ?03:21
shinkamuiif this doesn't work, Im going to cry03:21
shinkamuiI really want pr1.103:21
shinkamuiis portrait supported?03:21
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smegheadzhello, nice to be able to come here through the wiki03:22
odin_also my Media Player lost all its indexing (when I did the last minor system software upgrade to 44-1)03:22
smegheadzhow are you all?03:23
* DocScrutinizer51 hooks up N900 to a Bose 7-1 active stereo to enjoy youtube03:23
prontois there a way to edit the tags of songs, so they go to the right artist in the meida player app itself?03:23
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51, oops, you've just embarrassed yourself. :P03:24
smegheadzi usualy edit all my song tags on my pc with winamp when i'm listening to them03:24
prontowill my media manager on my server handles it fine , with out editing tags03:24
odin_is it possible to get Media Player to reindex all storage ?03:24
DocScrutinizer51with Bose?03:25
DocScrutinizer51or with tha F.Z. quote?03:25
smegheadzi'm wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction since i'm getting conflicting information03:25
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DocScrutinizer51anyway. as long as I haven't done nasty to others ... nevermind03:26
Jef91Hey all, what does it mean if the light on my n900 keeps flashing white?03:26
Jef91Started after the firmware update this morning03:26
smegheadzi'm in ireland and only way to get the n900 is order online through someone. but alot of people are getting eastern eu models not uk models. just wondering if that will have an effect03:26
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CaesiumJef91: I believe that's just the "device is on" indication03:27
Caesiumcan turn it off in Settings03:27
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grishnavI don't know who the correct person to thank for fixing imap email on the n900 is, but THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!03:32
prontoyou're welcome03:32
pronto>.>03:32
pronto<.<03:32
grishnavlol <303:32
pronto(wasnt me)03:32
grishnavi know :D03:33
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pronto:D03:33
grishnavi got that from the shift eyes :P03:33
pwnguini hear the front camera is fixed too03:33
grishnavwell...03:33
prontoyeah i tested it with that mirror app03:33
grishnavthe band on the left side is03:33
prontoits like 40x better03:33
prontostill shittty, but hell of al ot better03:33
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prontothough with 0.3 megapixles i dont know how much better you can get03:33
prontoyeah the band is gone, and it looks better03:34
grishnavmy front camera still eats balls03:34
grishnavuhh... the .3mp camera on my hp is crystal clear03:34
prontocompared to before its a lot better03:34
grishnavit's 640x480 (or whatever), but at that resolution, it looks great03:34
prontoheh03:34
prontoand to be honest the 5mp camera on the n900 isnt that good either03:35
prontothough i havent tested that since the update03:35
* SpeedEvil adds busybox awk to his hate-list.03:35
grishnavoh i dunno about that03:35
grishnavi think the 5pm camera produces excellent pictures03:35
SpeedEvilpronto: (1.22*wavelength)/diameter03:35
prontoSpeedEvil: huh?03:35
SpeedEvilThe camera lens is some 1.8mm in diameter.03:35
grishnavi mean, it's not comparable to a good dslr with good glass03:35
grishnavbut fuck, it's a cell phone03:36
pwnguinhardaker: you promised us a script to detect rootfs pigs03:36
grishnavwell, mini computer03:36
grishnavanyway03:36
prontolol03:36
grishnavit takes pictures that look just about as nice as my point and shoot at 10mp03:36
grishnavand certainly way better than any cell phone camera that i've ever used03:36
grishnavgranted, i haven't used the one on the n97 or anything like that :p03:36
SpeedEvil1.22*(500*10^-9)/.0018 = .00033 radians angular resolution.03:37
dockaneits not all about mega pixel but mp/sensor size and optic03:37
grishnavwow. now that I know that my life is complete.03:37
grishnavdockane: i know :p03:37
microlithwow03:38
microlithmy front camera is fucked up03:38
SpeedEvilOr another way - a thousand pixels each way is hopelessly optimistic03:38
grishnavmicrolith: they all are :p03:38
microlithI thought it actually worked with this patch03:38
grishnavSpeedEvil: is that the 5mp or the front cam?03:38
SpeedEvilgrishnav: main03:38
grishnavhmm03:38
SpeedEvilWell - maybe a little more than a thousand. Nothing close to 2.03:38
microlithfront cam03:39
microliththe 5mp works great03:39
SpeedEvilRear cam is an OK 2MP cam IME.03:39
SpeedEvilIn decent light.03:39
SpeedEvilOr if you're in flash range.03:39
microlithfront cam can barely display an image03:39
dockanei dont think the 5 mp sensor is much bigger than a strike head03:39
SpeedEvilmicrolith: not true.03:39
SpeedEvilmicrolith: go in a suny place, and it's merely bad.03:40
SpeedEvildockane: A what?03:40
SpeedEviloh - match03:40
dockanesorry..03:40
* dockane can has poor english 03:40
dockane;)03:40
SpeedEvilnp - slightly conused me for a moment.03:41
* SpeedEvil needs to go to sleep.03:41
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DocScrutinizer51nah03:41
DocScrutinizer51actually the vga cam is 'usable' in bright light03:41
SyncAhi03:41
odin_can anyone thing of a valid reason why the built in XTerm by default doesn't honor the /etc/passwd shell choice ?03:42
odin_s/thing/think03:42
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grishnavodin_: because you touch yourself at night03:42
grishnavlol03:42
DocScrutinizer51odin_: it does03:42
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DocScrutinizer51let,s see03:43
DocScrutinizer51~busybox03:43
infoboti guess busybox is the swiss army knife of embedded linux.  It combines tiny versions of many common UNIX utilities into a single small executable. It provides replacements for most of the utilities you usually find in GNU fileutils, shellutils, etc.  See http://www.busybox.net/.03:43
grishnavi still don't understand why it mixes it into a single executable03:44
grishnavis it space savings thing or...?03:44
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DocScrutinizer51~busybox also is total crap fucked up beyond all repair03:44
infobotDocScrutinizer51: what are you talking about?03:44
odin_grishnav, yes that is one of the primary goals (exec footprint size)03:44
DocScrutinizer51~die03:45
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.03:45
* jaska loots infobots remains03:45
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: awk breaking on NULs recently annoyed me.03:46
odin_I hope to release a busyboxless DEB over this weekend... this is a collective DEB which pulls a bunch of DEBs that provide proper GNU tools (these are all shoved into /opt and available from /usr/local and is mainly for interactive shell use, not to replace system functions)03:46
Pavlovcan i sync my google contacts to maemo yet?03:46
prontohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orBKkl6x-II  lmao apache on n90003:46
odin_I already have all the binaries that symlink to busybox built, just working through installer/DEB descriptor (well tomorrows job now)03:46
odin_also need to do a bit of testing on each and make sure they all work more-o-less as expected03:47
nomisodin_: you can reset the tracker database completely by using "tracker-processes -r". That will lose all information stored in tracker.03:47
odin_but... for me XTerm is not honoring the /etc/passwd shell field, but OpenSSH server is (of course)03:48
grishnavtracker is runnong on n900?03:48
grishnavno fuckin' way03:48
grishnavhow do I use it?03:48
DocScrutinizer51odin_: don't miss mandb03:48
odin_I see: /usr/lib/tracker/trackerd03:48
nomisgrishnav: "look at the stuff the media player displays"  :)03:48
GeneralAntillesgrishnav, it doesn't do full indexing.03:48
grishnavnomis: that's using tracker? I had no idea...03:48
nomisgrishnav: yup.03:49
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odin_DocScrutinizer51, "man" is not provided by busybox... but I will next look at that GNU tools as still missing, that busybox doesn't provide, but which are available on any sane minimal linux install (and man is one)... I already have  bzip2, ed, gawk, less (in my personal list built and installed)03:50
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nomisat some point I'll just write some python scripts to influence the sorting of stuff in the media player overview. Grgh.03:54
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pwnguinpronto: apache used to run on hardware much slower than n90003:56
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SpeedEviln900 is a cutting-edge desktop class system of maybe 15 years ago04:01
ds3you are, of course, referring to raw CPU power, I take it?04:02
nomishuh?04:02
ds3totally ignore the power consumption plague on those systems04:02
jaska1995? id say a couple years more modern than that04:03
nomis15 years ago meant 300MHz and hoping that you maybe could playback a mp3.04:03
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, ^04:03
GeneralAntillesLess than 300MHz04:03
nomisyeah, probably.04:03
jaska15 years ago? 300MHz? i wish04:03
microlitha pentium 75 could play back an mp3 without choking04:03
GeneralAntillesPentium II came out in 199704:03
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, more like 8-10 years ago.04:04
matthew-1995 had 233 i think04:04
matthew-no, that was '9604:04
matthew-no04:04
matthew-95, right04:04
microlithmy p2-400 was tested by throwing Q3A at it04:04
matthew-96 only did MMX04:04
SpeedEvilppro was 199504:05
SpeedEviland ppro and arm are probably order of magnitude comparable.04:05
odin_I say 8 to 10 as well04:05
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, not a Cortex A804:05
GeneralAntillesCortex is vaguely comparable to PIII04:06
SpeedEvilyeah - not counting the otehr cores04:06
SpeedEvils/desktop/server/04:06
GeneralAntillesCPU-to-CPU04:06
* nomis heads for the bed. Night all.04:07
ds3GA: a PIII based celeron might be a better comparism04:07
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odin_DocScrutinizer51 this XTerm honor's /etc/passwd were you testing that ?  before you went into the ~busybox tangent :)04:08
GeneralAntillesds3, indeed.04:10
odin_nomis, thanks for tracker reset, now when I boot media player I get "Retrieving information on the new media file" "Estimated time remaining: 02:10"  (I got this before)  also the estimated time keeps going UP !04:12
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odin_nomis, should: tracker-status => "Segmentation fault" ?04:15
odin_oh I read he (nomis) heads for bed, ah well till tomoz04:15
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PhantasmDoes anyone know a way to allow adding a widget (showing battery charge level percentage instead of the default bar) as a widget the way normal widgets are added? Currently the widget made by krk969 needs to be manually started to work each time the phone is rebooted. (See http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38749 )04:34
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cyberbazehey guys04:35
odin_hi04:37
SplasPoodhrm.. so 3G doesn't give me anything in resolv.conf either, but DNS resolution does work..04:37
odin_anything ?  don't you have 127.0.0.1 always in resolve.conf  and dnsmasq running ?04:39
PhantasmAnyone know how to make x terminal start up as full screen (that is the top bar hidden like the button in bottom bar sets it)?04:39
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cyberbazefollowing the trend of importing games on maemo, most recently warcraft and starcraft, is there a bluetooth mouse option available?04:42
SplasPoododin_: nada04:45
SplasPoododin_: post upgrade (and numerous reboots)04:45
SplasPoododin_: however, when connected via 3G, things work... when connected via wifi I cannot resolve names04:45
SplasPooddnsmasq is running04:47
SplasPoodand remains running on either connection04:47
SplasPoodand I can confirm I can ping ips04:48
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shinkamuicyberbaze,  whate are you talking about starcraft? You're not referring to the fledgling stargus are you?04:51
SplasPoodseems i'm not the only one, trollin talk.maemo04:52
SplasPoodlooks like it might have been an upgrade problem related to vpnc04:54
AndrewFBlack2how do you put bugtracker information on maemo.org/packages04:57
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SplasPoodyup, that fixed it04:59
SplasPoodahh, and resolv.conf is in /var/run05:01
cyberbazeSplasPood yes i am talking about stargus, and woundering about the option of using bluetooth mouse to play, something similiar to the quake 3 on e90 with bt mouse05:01
SplasPoodcyberbaze: misfire, I assume..05:01
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jkimball4what's the password to use if i want to sudo something?05:08
jkimball4on n90005:08
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thomazwhat's the difference between maemo sdk and sdk+?05:09
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shinkamuicyberbaze, prepare to be extremely dissapointed05:11
shinkamuiwargus is perfect though, thats totally worth it05:11
shinkamuias for BT mouse support, I couldn't say, I just use the keyboard to issue commands so a single tap is all thats needed05:12
shinkamuiand scrolling is done with the mini map.  Feel free to post if you have success with a BT mouse05:12
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shinkamuidon't see why it wouldn't work if the mouse connects05:12
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ShadowJK_jkimball4, install rootsh, "sudo gainroot" to get rootshell.05:14
jkimball4well i don't want to be root.  i just want to borrow its powers :)05:15
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SplasPoodprolly need to edit sudoers?   I didn't bother..05:15
jkimball4this package needs to be purged05:16
jkimball4upgrade messed up this package so i need to figure out how to get rid of it forcefully.05:16
SplasPoodsudo gainroot05:16
SplasPoodwhats the problem..05:16
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prontohttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/personal-menu/  for what ever reason when i try to installt his, i get "application not found"05:38
shinkamuiwell, the install of the update went well, reflashed and all05:38
GeneralAntillesThe only interaction I have with Twitter are the "somebody new is following you" emails I get every so often. . . .05:39
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acidjazzso whats hte current best map app?05:46
acidjazzfor finding stuff and getting directions05:46
shinkamuiwhat are the choices I get to vote from05:49
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|Rhow come the icons are not kept for the contacts after you signoff from an IM ? All my contacts are blank...(blue)05:55
grishnavacidjazz: google maps website with microb geolocation05:56
acidjazzgrishnav: url05:56
grishnavovi sucks and maep is great for wandering around but is not (nor is it supposed to be) a full blow navigation app05:56
grishnavuhh05:56
grishnavgoogle maps is at http://maps.google.com/05:56
acidjazzjust hte whole app itself?05:56
acidjazzthats to much05:56
acidjazztoo much05:56
acidjazztkaes forever05:56
grishnavmicrob geolocation is here http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/maemo-geolocation/05:57
grishnavyeah05:57
grishnavit's not great05:57
grishnavhopefully someone will whip up a google maps app soon05:57
grishnavi know a lot of people are barking at google for one05:57
acidjazzyea .. just lookin for something in the meantime05:58
odin_why on scratchbox is: /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 -> libtermcap.so  ??05:58
acidjazzlol wat05:58
ravaskinda interesting:05:58
ravashttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1SLjo7WGug05:58
ravasfor goog maps05:58
ravasand maemo-geolocation05:59
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acidjazzmaemaps is not too bad06:01
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grishnavmeh06:02
acidjazztheres no way to click and drag in the browser is there06:02
grishnavit's not gonna switch me from myt omtom any time soon heh06:02
grishnavyeah06:03
grishnavdrag the cursor out from the left06:03
grishnavthen tap the cursor icon06:03
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siriusnovais it just me or is the Ovi Maemo store content really depressingly bad06:15
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Proteousangry birds is amazing!06:20
Proteousother than that thought...06:20
GeneralAntillessiriusnova, it was just opened up a few days ago.06:20
GeneralAntillessiriusnova, content doesn't magically appear over night.06:20
Proteousyes it does, you just put your n900 under your pillow and the content fairy fills it with goodies06:21
goodwillProteous: and if you want to run on maemo yourself just put it on top of your head and the firmware will flow down06:23
Proteousyes, through osmosis06:23
Proteousit's so easy06:23
GeneralAntillesNote, Sygic should be releasing a navigation app next week to the Ovi Store.06:24
Proteoushope it's nice06:25
GeneralAntillesUI isn't integrated judging by the screenshots06:25
GeneralAntillesSo no better than Ovi Maps there.06:25
goodwillGeneralAntilles: is Sygic good?06:25
GeneralAntillesLots of people seem to like it.06:25
goodwillGeneralAntilles: and does one need a data plan for the maps ...06:26
goodwillI'd preffer predownloaded set06:26
goodwillhttp://www.youtube.com/v/2HWs4nAJaiM&autoplay=106:26
goodwillfound a video06:26
cosmosiriusnova: yep it's horrible06:26
cosmonow we have app manager and real repos (which are nice) and ovi stori which isn't06:27
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goodwillhmm Sygic has speed cameras alert06:28
* GeneralAntilles pokes Sygic about their trademark misuse again.06:29
goodwillyes!!! preinstalled maps06:29
goodwillGeneralAntilles: trademark?06:29
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, they chopped up the maemo.org logo to use as a "maemo" logo.06:29
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goodwillI see06:30
GeneralAntillesThe back button on the bottom of the screen is the most irritating part of that application.06:30
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GeneralAntillesOops06:30
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odin_can you got from 44-1 to 51-1 with 'apt-get dist-upgrade' ?06:30
GeneralAntillesodin_, not recommended.06:30
GeneralAntillesodin_, for a variety of reasons.06:30
GeneralAntillesMost of them pretty good.06:30
odin_well my N900 seems to have started doing that (as I was following information given in Wiki on freeing up rootfs space)06:31
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|Rodin_: didn't have much of a choice, and it worked here06:32
odin_it downloaded 109Mb into /home and now is trying to apply each one... watching my rootfs space go down and down, at 21.1Mb so far06:32
goodwillmy upgrade went without a hitch06:33
odin_what are the possible failure vectors ? (of this method ?)06:33
goodwillGeneralAntilles: Sygic prices are reasonable I'd say06:33
odin_can I drop runlevel or something and shutdown X?  so I can reclaim shared filespace ?06:34
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, too bad they didn't even attempt to integrate the software.06:34
goodwillGeneralAntilles: integrate?06:34
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, UI paradigms and guidelines.06:34
GeneralAntillesThey're abusing them06:34
* goodwill is looking at screenshots06:35
GeneralAntillesFor some reason companies think users are more interested in having a consistent UI across all of the platforms they support instead of having a a UI that follows the UI guidelines of the platform it's on.06:35
GeneralAntillesThis is a large part of why the Ovi Maps' UI sucks so goddamn much.06:35
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, see the back/cancel button in the bottom left?06:35
|Rsygic is out?06:35
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, the X is supposed to turn into a back arrow.06:35
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GeneralAntilles|R, 18th, last I heard.06:35
goodwillGeneralAntilles: they are probably going for branding06:35
|RGeneralAntilles: oh ok, same here :)06:36
goodwillGeneralAntilles: any good alternatives you know of?06:36
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* goodwill does not like ovi maps06:36
|Rodin_: have you "optified" /var/cache/ ? and/or /var/lib/dpkg ?06:37
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odin_yes /var/lib/dpkg not /var/cache06:37
|Rodin_: oh yes, you said you downloaded all the packages to home :)06:38
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|Rodin_: so, is it working?06:38
odin_but I used: -o dir::cache=/home/user/MyDocs/apt-archive-cache06:38
odin_yes it appears to be working no error/issues do far, but I am watching my rootfs space go down and down06:38
odin_I really need to kill off processes to allow the replaced DSOs to be reclaimed on the filesystem06:39
|Rmine crapped in the middle, had to optify /var/lib/dpkg ... and after a loop between apt-get -f install and dpkg --configure -a it worked #1 :)06:39
odin_while 1 or more processes has an open filehandle to a file, the space of the old version/one will not be reclaimed and my rootfs will become full06:39
odin_can I Ctrl-C it to move /var/cache ?06:39
|Rlet it crash out of space...06:40
|Rhave you disabled extra / testing repository ?06:40
odin_nope06:40
|Rthis saved me 15MBs...06:40
|Rso when it crash, try that, than dpkg --configure -a i guess :)06:41
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odin_I see lots of Preparing the Unpacking (has the upgrade actually taken place?)06:41
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, open up the application manager, tap Navigation.06:41
odin_s/the/then06:42
goodwillGeneralAntilles: I mean on the market :)06:42
|Rodin_: nop, not until you type upgrade and see 0 package to upgrade :)06:42
odin_is it there a commit phase?06:42
|Ryep, "setting up"06:42
odin_so I can Ctrl-C and it will abort?06:42
|Rwell... i guess, but why?06:42
odin_so I can continue reclaiming space06:43
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|Ruhm...06:43
|Rwell why not i guess06:43
|Ryou'll have to dpkg --configure -a either way06:43
|RI don't think there is much risk this way or when it runs out of space06:43
grishnavthe 2 gig rootfs is so retarded06:44
|R256MB that is :|06:44
grishnavwut? really?06:45
grishnavugh06:45
|Ryeah, the 2GB is for apps06:45
gandhii2 gigs is retarded too06:45
grishnavnobody is going to put 32 gigs of family photos on their fucking phone06:45
grishnavand if they do, they can use fuckign expansion cards06:45
grishnavthere's no reason for those partitions to be so small06:45
grishnavor to be partitions at all for that matter06:45
odin_can I just copy and move /var/cache and symlink up ?06:45
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|Rwell the root is on a special memory chip i think06:45
Jef91Hey All06:46
grishnavoh06:46
grishnavwhat for?06:46
grishnavfaster?06:46
|Rnot sure though, and not sure either where the swap is06:46
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odin_Samsung OneNAND06:46
|Ror just safer06:46
grishnavi thought it was all just ont he flash06:46
odin_256Mb OneNAND (rootfs, kernel, boot) 32Gb eMMC /home /home/user/MyDocs06:47
grishnavwhat's the difference between the two?06:47
|Rand the swap is on the 32GB then?06:47
grishnavand why don't app installs work off the eMMC?06:47
odin_SWAP is on eMMC and memory another 256Mb is seperate still06:47
|ReMMC is more wear resistant i think?06:47
|RCan't remember... that was 4 months ago ;)06:48
odin_to confirm "cat /proc/swaps" and see the device name is same as 'df' for eMMC06:48
grishnavsounds like a good reason to have the rootfs on it! lol!06:48
|Rah yes06:48
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|Ri was thinking, where is fdisk -l :P06:48
odin_I have fdisk on mine now :)06:48
|Ri guess i could apt-get install cfdisk but don't want to fuck things up right now, it's all working fine (except i need PR1.2 out soon :P)06:49
grishnavso is everything optified by default now?06:50
grishnavkeeping in mind I got my device in december and haven't had any rootfs problems yet... yet :p06:50
|RI think dev have to do it properly06:50
|Rbut that's probably why there is a devel repository06:50
grishnavugh06:51
grishnavso really, waht's the advantage to the onenand? speed?06:51
grishnavahahahaha06:52
grishnavconan is laying it on nbc think06:52
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odin_42Mn on rootfs now :) yum yum06:52
grishnavthick*06:52
odin_can I continue/restart the OS upgrade from HAM now ?  even though it did something via apt-get on command line ?  also when I see "Maemo" in HAM now I'm sure it was 90Mb and now its 74Mb (is this because some stuff got installed?)06:54
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odin_and is it safe to reboot right now ?  given I  might have installed 50 out of 1000 packages?06:54
grishnavisn't ham just an interface to the apt repository ala synaptic?06:54
|Rodin_: no idea, Aplication manager (What's the H for ?) said i needed some USB / software for backup bla bla... so i forced it down its throat with apt-get ;)06:55
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|Rodin_: i would finish06:55
grishnav|R: I believe it's Hildon App Manager06:55
|Roh hildon, right :P06:55
|Rso maemo 6 will have QAM ?06:55
Jef91In order to run qemu does my processor need to support virtualization?06:56
grishnavJef91: Pretty sure not. Qemu was in use before VT was conceived of :p06:57
grishnavbut who knows, i don't use it myself :p06:57
Jef91grishnav very good - going to set it up on my netbook then (or try to at least06:57
odin_going to try a reboot... I must be insane06:57
grishnavfive minutes from now: odin_: so how do I reflash an N900?06:58
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|Rodin_: why?06:58
grishnavlol, just messing06:58
|Rhaha06:59
|Rit'll probably reboot...06:59
|RBut... why risk it06:59
odin_well its taking its time !06:59
odin_maybe the desktop is b0rked06:59
grishnavit took mine a while to reboot after the update too06:59
|Rbut he didn't update06:59
grishnavi assume it'll be faster next time i reboot, or at least i hope so06:59
grishnavoh...06:59
grishnavwell06:59
grishnavlol06:59
|Ryeah, well i had a progress bar / nokia logo after upgrading07:00
grishnavyeah me too07:00
grishnavi hope that's not a regular feature now07:00
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grishnavotherwise boot time just tripled :(07:00
|Rof course not hehe07:00
|Runless i get PR1.2, then 1.3... it's auto evolving ;)07:01
odin_yep looks fatal07:01
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|R_doh_07:01
grishnav4 minutes and 30 seconds, called it! :p07:02
|R~last --with flasher-3.507:02
|Rdoes that even work? hehe07:02
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message144Well... my n900 was running like a charm until this update that got pushed today. It's a complete disaster... Is there anything i can do?07:06
odin_I want the "GLOBAL" flash Image for the UK version ?07:06
grishnavwhat's wrong with it?07:06
Jef91Anyone know if there is a qemu image of Maemo lurking around anywhere?07:06
Jef91message144: Reflash it back to the old firmware07:06
message144Jef91, any hints on how i can do that? Also, how do I find what the previous firmware was?07:07
grishnavthe new firmware has been working great for me. they finally added imap mail!07:07
goodwillJef91: there is vpc image of the sdk ... which I am sure you can convert to a qemu image07:07
message144grishnav, imap? mine has had that for a month07:07
odin_I tortured my N900 today... I let it install about 50 packages out of 1000 in the new update and then I rebooted it :)07:07
grishnavmessage144: you obviously don't have much mail saved... the n900 choked on all my mailboxes07:07
goodwillgrishnav: thats been there since the beginning07:07
Jef91message144 - http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware07:07
goodwillgrishnav: but the new update made it super speedy07:08
grishnavgoodwill: just because you can connect to an imap server doesn't mean it's usable. :p07:08
Jef91goodwill - what is VPC?07:08
grishnavit's usable now :)07:08
message144well whatever the case, i was pretty excited on my n900 until today.. the thing is incredibly slow now07:08
goodwillgrishnav: it was for me07:08
grishnavmessage144: do you know how to get to an xterm?07:08
goodwillJef91: Virtual PC07:08
message144grishnav, yes07:08
grishnavgoodwill: yeah, but it wasn't for me. it choked badly and i only have a few hundred thousand messages07:08
grishnavmessage144: try running top and seeing if something is eating cpu?07:09
Jef91goodwill - Whats that, never heard of it. Different processor emulation software I take it?07:09
goodwillJef91: its an emulator by Microsoft07:09
Jef91oh ack.07:09
goodwillJef91: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Virtual_PC07:10
Jef91That explains why I've never heard of/used it before07:10
message144grishnav, cpu looks fine on top07:10
odin_it boots up to charge at least !07:10
grishnavhmm07:10
goodwillJef91: in any case I bet you can convert to a qemu or virtual box or whatever07:10
Jef91goodwill - the fact that they make an image for that is another testiment to the fact that Nokia gets it but doesn't at the same time07:10
goodwillJef91: its not an official nokia image07:10
Jef91goodwill - remember virtual box only support x86 and 64bit guests - its not processor emulation07:10
goodwillJef91: http://vpc-sdk.garage.maemo.org/07:11
goodwillJef91: right ....07:11
goodwillJef91: :)07:11
message144so, i guess I am the only one that has experience severely regressive performance for the new n900/maemo update today?07:11
Jef91Got debian ARM installing via qemu right now07:11
grishnavfirst i've heard -- mine is running way better after the update07:11
goodwillmessage144: mine is snappier after upgrade07:11
Jef91hoping to do some dev work on that bugger07:11
grishnavmessage144: how about `free'? is something eating ram?07:11
|Rmessage144: have you just done the update?07:11
GeneralAntillesmessage144, Tracker may be indexing.07:12
|Rmessage144: maybe it's just reindexing ...07:12
GeneralAntillesmessage144, what does top say?07:12
message144checking...07:12
goodwillmessage144: run top and see whats happening07:12
|Rhere it's faster, at least in 3 games that is..07:12
GeneralAntillesIt should be marginally to significantly faster.07:12
goodwillJef91: I do not know if its an ARM image ... cause SDK is both x86 and arm07:13
message144the UI is laggy.. windows are minimizing very slowly... buttons are responding slowly07:13
message144i just did the update about an hour ago07:13
odin_shit I can't run the flasher, its linked against some newer GLIBC :(07:13
goodwillmessage144: run terminal and top inside it07:13
odin_windows time I guess07:13
goodwillodin_: breath deep buddy :)07:14
message144goodwill, running top shows that cpu usage is very low07:14
|Rwhat's the load average?07:15
goodwillmessage144: what about ram usage?07:15
message144although.. in intervals /usr/bin/modest is taking 30% cpu07:15
message144every minute or so07:15
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message144ram usage is pretty tame07:15
message144the most cpu/ram is browserd at 10% cpu07:16
grishnavmessage144: probably silly to ask, but, have you tried restarting?07:16
message144grishnav, i actually did and it improved a lot, but its still much slower than it was before the upgrade07:16
message144so yes that helped07:16
message144is it logical to assume that restarting again will yield similar results? heh07:17
grishnavprobably not, but who knows07:17
goodwillmessage144: if tracker is indexing it could be the disk activity that messing you up07:17
grishnava lot of this stuff is just a shy better than beta quality07:17
goodwillmessage144: or thumbnailer?07:17
message144what is tracker?07:17
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grishnavmessage144: an indexing search engine. do you have lots of songs or pictures or anything that would cause something like tracker to chew for a while?07:18
goodwillmessage144: indexing service ... for quick search07:18
message144no.. i have very little data on this phone07:18
grishnavi have almost no content on my n900 yet...07:18
grishnavhrm07:18
goodwillmessage144: it indexes files and email messages and etc07:18
grishnavi'm out of ideas... install openssh and let someone hack on it? :p07:18
message144heh07:18
message144ill have to lurk here for a while before im comfortable with that i suppose07:18
goodwillhehehe .... latest emacs is available for n90007:19
grishnavmessage144: what is your load average?07:19
goodwillI shoudl install it, along with lisp dbus bindign and just run the phone and sms from inside emacs07:19
wiretappedanybody here messed  with rtcom-eventlogger's db?07:19
message144grishnav, its only 1.65%07:19
goodwilljust so I can be more geeky07:19
message144grishnav, you know what... it might be getting snappy again...07:19
message144i will mess around on it for a while and report back here in about an hour07:20
grishnavmessage144: in xterm, run `uptime' and read us those numbers07:20
* wiretapped is trying to make a trigger adjust the group_uid on incoming tmo email-to-sms events07:20
grishnavif your load average is 1.65, that's not 1.65%, that's 165%, ie very effing overloaded07:20
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grishnavif you'er not seeing it in cpu usage, then it's probably i/o07:20
grishnavwhich points to something chewing on the flash for some reason07:21
wiretappedthe GroupCache is making life difficult07:21
message144grishnav, sorry i meant 1.65%07:21
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message144brb.. have to walk the stupid dog07:21
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grishnavmessage144: wait!07:21
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grishnavget us the load averages before they change! :p07:21
goodwillif I update hostname and hosts for a custom name you think there would any issues?07:24
|Rworks here :)07:24
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milos_goodwill: depends how you change07:24
goodwillmilos_: I was planning to edit /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts07:25
milos_goodwill: i did just than on my ubuntu machine and works great. changed karmic to lucid in hostname and hosts07:26
odin_grishnav, |R : I just remember some of the reasons for OneNAND07:26
goodwillmilos_: its a standard linux thing ... I just wonder if there are any problems for n900 specifically07:26
grishnavplease! i'm curious to hear07:26
odin_grishnav, |R : the ubifs does wearleveling in the OS and in a special layout, this means the flashing operation will keep counters over complete re-flashes07:27
milos_goodwill: shouldn't be any problem, they are booth debian based07:27
odin_my baby is alive, MY BABY IS ALIVE !!!07:27
grishnavodin_: the eMMC doesn't have wear leveling?07:27
goodwillgreped /etc ... those are the only two references07:28
|Rgrishnav: only in software, i think the NAND does it by itself07:28
odin_grishnav, yes but its implemented in a hardware chip, like a flash usb/pen drive, one of the points of UBIFS use is that Nokia and kernel have 100% control over that aspect07:28
grishnavwhats the advantage to that?07:28
grishnavvariable algorithms based on usage or something?07:29
goodwillbluetooth volume levels are fixed in the PR1.107:29
|Rthen again home and MyDocs are in ext3 and vfat ...07:29
goodwillwhen playing from the media players07:29
goodwillNICE!!07:29
|RI wonder how battery is drained by ext3 writing every 5 sec...07:29
|Rand how much wear does it bring07:30
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odin_damn wireless lan settings have been lost07:30
|Rodin_: tell you did a backup before ? ;)07:30
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|R(ok ok, i'm not sure i want to hear the scream :P)07:30
odin_ah yes i did a backup a few days ago07:30
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|Rehhe :)07:30
goodwillalso codecs seem to be updated ... cause all the video files I have on it play well07:31
goodwillnow I do not have to using vlc from command line07:31
goodwillone question07:32
grishnav|R: it's mounted with data=wireback07:32
goodwillis there an way to snap the icons to grid on the desktops07:32
grishnavso I would say nothing and none :p07:32
goodwillI always find they are a few pixels off07:32
grishnavor07:32
grishnavvery minimal07:32
grishnavsince it's only metadata07:32
odin_right since I am no averse to reflashing OS (and expect to more) I think I shall work out which important goodies are needed and try to script/automate something from /home to fix things07:33
odin_are you sure this backup stored system settings ?  I still have my personal settings intact07:33
|Rgrishnav: well, it won't stamp access time all over the place, but the journal is still written every 5 sec no ?07:33
grishnav|R: there is no data journal, just metadata journal07:34
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|Rgrishnav: ?07:34
|Rthere is an FS journal (not sure where your distinction is / means? :-)07:34
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grishnavok uhh07:35
grishnavin journal mode07:36
grishnavwhen you write a file07:36
grishnavthe data is written to a journal07:36
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grishnavbefore it's written to the filesystem07:36
grishnavso that if the system crashes07:36
grishnavthe data that would have been written is still there07:36
grishnavin metadata only journaling07:37
grishnavit just writes file metadata07:37
grishnavbut if the system crashes while the data is being witten, it's lost07:37
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grishnavthe metadata journal allows you to fsck really fast and bring the filesystem back into a consistent state, but doesn't allow for any data recovery07:38
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grishnavi dunno about it being updated every five seconds07:38
grishnavit's mounted with commit=1, which i think means the commit interval is one second07:39
odin_thats the default linux metadata sync policy (5 secs)07:39
grishnavoh07:39
grishnavhrm07:39
grishnavbut what does that mean?07:39
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grishnavdoes stuff still get written if you aren't attempting to write or modify the filesystem?07:39
odin_huh... no you must sucessfully modify the filesystem (in order for stuff to get written)07:40
odin_i.e. there is no such thing as "attempting" i.e. impliying a failure  might occur07:40
odin_but the stuff that needs to be written might not get written immediately, it might stay in memory buffer-cache07:41
grishnavwrite... it's not just sporadically writing some kind of data to the every five seconds, if the buffer is empty, it does nothing07:41
odin_so the 5 second policy rule ensure that the OS attempt to write something to disk (that is "dirty" in the buffer-cache)07:41
grishnavor in this case every 1 second07:41
odin_cat /proc/memory look for "Dirty:"07:42
odin_otherwise in the case of large memory systems, the OS might never actually push the write to disk, if the buffer-cache is huge07:42
grishnavright07:42
grishnavthat's pretty much how i understood it07:42
grishnavbut if you've got no data to go to the disk07:42
grishnavie. the buffer is empty07:43
odin_correct07:43
grishnavnothing happens, right?07:43
grishnavso there ya go |R :p07:43
odin_but in the case of "atime" updates, reads cause writes on traditional unix filesystems07:43
grishnavah07:43
grishnavbut ont he n900 it's also mounted noatime, so no problem there07:43
odin_but it more-o-less the defaco standard that the "noatime" option is set07:43
odin_yup07:43
grishnavi turned atime on once because i had a retarded imap server that relied on it's behavior for some reason...07:44
odin_right I must sleep07:45
odin_I shall fix up baby tomorrow07:45
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crashanddiehttp://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2010/01/planes-in-spain-cause-passengers-pain.html07:55
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crashanddieI think that's my longest post to date07:56
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grishnavyou spelled arrogant wrong07:58
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crashanddiegrishnav: sorry?08:00
siriusnovaman08:01
siriusnovaCiti Cards just rocks08:01
siriusnovafor customer service08:01
grishnavjust kidding, lulz08:01
siriusnovaMy credit card was stolen while i was overseas08:01
crashanddieheh08:01
siriusnovaand some guy cloned it and bought like $2k worth of stuff08:01
siriusnovaD:08:01
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crashanddiesiriusnova: and?08:02
siriusnovai just called Citi Card and i explained to them that since im overseas i cant get that form they send in the mail to dispute08:02
siriusnovaand they are like08:02
siriusnova"Sure no problem we will block that account and just email the form, nothing you have to do"08:03
siriusnovaand im like "woot"08:03
siriusnova:D08:03
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crashanddiesiriusnova: and?08:05
siriusnovaand they wont charge me08:05
crashanddieand?08:05
siriusnovafor all the fradulent charges :P08:05
siriusnovafinished08:05
siriusnovaheh08:05
crashanddieyou do realise that credit card law forces them to do that08:05
crashanddieright?08:05
siriusnovaI know but they have good customer service08:05
crashanddieright08:05
siriusnovafor example it could be a total pain in the ass like amex08:05
siriusnovawhere im on the phone for hours08:05
crashanddielol, the only people who have trouble with amex are those who can't afford a real amex card08:06
siriusnovaI have an Amex Gold :P08:06
crashanddiethen you're doing something wrong08:06
siriusnova:(08:06
crashanddieAmex and diner's club are by far the best cards you can get08:07
crashanddieyou pay a hefty fee, but they will *never* discuss your claims as long as you use the card regularly08:07
siriusnovaweird08:08
crashanddieand by regularly, I mean $3k+ every month -- why would you have a gold if you didn't?08:08
crashanddieit's like people complaining their BT CC is shit... well... duh :P08:08
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tigertwhats BT?08:10
crashanddiebritish telecom08:10
siriusnovalol08:11
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RST38hAngry Haitians block roads with corpses08:20
RST38hhttp://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/15/2793056.htm08:20
hrw|gonebug #693308:20
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong08:20
adeusmakes perfect sense to block roads to protest delays by causing delays08:21
hrw|goneam I wrong or someone from other side has problems with brain?08:21
RST38hhrw: Please specify08:21
RST38hIf you mean haitians, they are simply using the most abundant building material08:22
hrw|goneRST38h: bug is clear, example event is provided as ical file which works on desktop but fails on n900. and they as which phone it was from (already provided info and there is info from example ical is) and then about time zone which does not change alarm time anyway08:23
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RST38hAh that08:24
RST38hhrw: konttori is your man, ask him08:24
|Rwell, Haïti is in fucking hell mode right now :( ... can't blame them, 3M people homeless? I'd go crazy too08:25
hrw|goneRST38h: maybe later, but I do not want to bug him about each and each bug in their closed crap08:25
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hrw|goneRST38h: and he said that 'pr1.2 will continue at least a month' so may it be that 1.2 is frozen internally already08:26
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hrw|gonebye08:35
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't get the anti-mailing list mentality.08:41
RST38hhrw: Collect 4-5 most odious one08:42
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* RST38h has the anti-mailing list mentality08:42
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RST38hGeneral: To me, mailing list is more spam into my mailbox.08:42
RST38hPlus, this "technology" has been outdated for at least 20-25 years now08:43
GeneralAntillesRST38h, mostly in a cultural and political sense here.08:46
GeneralAntillesBut, anyway, that's why I have filters that move mailing list messages to their own folders.08:46
RST38hWell, if it gets moved, I never see it. If it does not get moved, I see it as spam. No good either way.08:47
* RST38h usually reads ml archives on the web though08:47
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RST38hAh clever new HAM, if it fails downloading the whole update, it only downloads the remaining part the second time08:50
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RST38hBTW, what is it about iPhone that makes people create such visually attractive apps?09:01
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ruskieRST38h, because it's Apple?09:01
ruskieI wonder if they are functionaly attractive though09:01
RST38hIs it the type of people developing for it, or is it something in the programming framework that helps?09:01
Corsachmhm, the calendar doesn't support removet caldav calendar, does it?09:02
ruskieit didn't the last I heard09:02
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RST38hIf it is something in the framework, can we borrow that? =)09:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's a combination of a lot of things, I think.09:04
GeneralAntillesSame is true of all Apple platforms.09:04
GeneralAntillesGood UI guidelines, leading by example, a drive to release a polished product, etc.09:04
RST38hOk, can it be somehow simulated?09:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, you notice how Apple never releases documentation that's on the shittiness level Nokia manages?09:05
RST38hLike, maybe we need to provide a toolkit with visually attractive basic UI elements and a dead simple way to arrange them?09:05
GeneralAntillesIt's that attention to detail that seems to be at the core of it.09:05
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yeah, that'd probably be a start.09:05
RST38hGeneral: As far as Maemo is concerned, Nokia hardly releases any documentation, most toolkits are OSS anyway09:05
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, true enough.09:06
RST38hSymbian stuff does suck a lot, mostly because it is generated with Oxygen (or something) and the frameworks themselves are a mess09:06
GeneralAntillesBut what documentation there is doesn't exactly strive for excellence.09:06
goodwillApple strength is that it has a polished product that does eveything one specific way09:06
goodwillApple WEAKNESS is that it has a polished product that does everything ONE specific way09:06
RST38hGeneral: Well, the documentation guy is always the fifth wheel in the team09:06
RST38hFor better or for worse09:06
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, that's a part of what allows them to ship quality products.09:07
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goodwillgranted maemo SDK is a mess ... but it won't be in about half a year once enough examples are out there09:07
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, and a side effect of that is that that level of quality and attention to detail seems to rub off on its developers.09:07
RST38hgoodwill: Sorry, but do you know for how long Maemo SDK exists?09:07
goodwillRST38h: there is a difference between a tablet and tablet with a phone09:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I think a partial problem with that is that Nokia has only recently really started getting behind the platform.09:08
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RST38hGeneral: which may not necessarily be a good thing :)09:08
goodwillRST38h: before n900 I was nto considering nokia stuff at all09:08
GeneralAntilles(as hesitantly and weakly as they)09:08
RST38hGeneral: If you have seen the Qt DUI (sic) framework plans, you know what I mean09:08
goodwillGeneralAntilles: I agree ... but its a two edged sword09:08
RST38hgoodwill: See? I suggest you learn a bit of background first :)09:09
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RST38hGeneral: They pretty much took Qt and made their OWN UI framework based on it09:09
RST38hGeneral: In two different incompatible versions (Maemo and Symbian)09:09
goodwillRST38h: so?09:09
goodwillmost folks who got the tablets do nto care about symbian09:10
RST38hGeneral: Both using dreaded document-view-controller model that pretty much killed most UI development on Symbian/S6009:10
goodwillthe maemo audience is different IMHO09:10
goodwilllook at apple SDK: polished and locked in09:10
RST38hwhat audience? there are several.09:11
goodwillOIbjectiveC and the toolkit09:11
RST38hand, again, you want to learn the background before making statements09:11
goodwillRST38h: what statements?09:11
goodwillRST38h: I am comparing current state of maemo sdk to current state of apple sdk09:11
goodwillnot exploring the past09:12
svanheulenspeaking of the maemo sdk... FFFFFFUUUUUU09:12
goodwillin half a year it will have enough code to rock09:13
svanheulenshit is so painful09:13
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goodwillwhere is its almost never possible to see apps for apples source code and learn from them09:13
RST38hsvan: Interestingly, I find it ok09:13
RST38hThe only problem is that you have to install Linux09:14
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goodwilldoes anyone know if its possible to change availability per account on n90009:14
RST38hOnce you do that and stick to SB2, you are fine09:14
RST38hok, <work>09:14
svanheulenwell i run linux and i still hate it haha09:14
shinkamuigoodwill: wtf are you talking about hildonized GTK?  QT examples?09:14
shinkamuiwhat is this CODE that will be availalbe in droves in 6 months thats not available now09:14
goodwillshinkamui: the garage scm is full of it09:15
goodwillI've been using it to write my own little apps09:15
goodwillgranted QT samples are not as numerous but that will change09:15
svanheuleni just want gcc and such optified and in extras09:16
shinkamuisvanheulen, use the development chroot image09:17
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* slonopotamus_ just wants disk layout that doesn't require optification at all :)09:17
svanheulenshinkamui: where do i get that?!09:17
shinkamuilook it up in the forums, image is pretty small too09:17
svanheulensweet, thanks09:18
* shinkamui bows and heads for dreamland09:18
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svanheulenmy problem with the sdk is that qemu sucks. segfaults on me often.09:22
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svanheulenanyone here good with emacs?09:26
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goodwillsvanheulen: depends on what you mean by good09:27
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goodwillsvanheulen: I have an emacs env I spent year developing ... but my lisp is just so so09:27
svanheulendo you know if there's a way to remap keys? like make the up arrow be esc?09:28
rkc_Hi guys.. i am completly new to maemo. Could any one tell me the place where can i get the infromation about the threading in symbian.. I just want to play around creating multiple processes / threads...09:28
goodwillsvanheulen: I do not think you can make up key be escape but you can make up do what esc does09:28
goodwillrkc_: maemo is not symbian09:29
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cosmorkc_: forum.nokia.com might have some docs09:29
goodwillsvanheulen: esc is considered a meta / modifier key in emacs09:29
rkc_goodwill: then how can i create threads??09:29
goodwillrkc_: I do not understand the question ... maemo is not symbian ...09:30
goodwillrkc_: and create them where?09:30
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svanheulengoodwill: yeah, that' why i want to map it, no esc on n900 keyboard09:30
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adeuscan I list somehow the packages B that directly depend on some package A?09:31
rkc_goodwill: ok.. let me put in the other way.. when i click on a button... i want to do some network search.. but i dont want my UI to be blocked.. how to do this??09:31
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Stskeepsadeus: apt-get rdepends09:31
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svanheulenrkc_: fork()09:31
goodwillrkc_: set up an event?09:31
rkc_svanheulen: same like unix calls??09:32
adeusStskeeps, invalid comman?09:32
adeus+d09:32
rkc_goodwill: can you show me some example for this kind of use case?09:32
svanheulenrkc_: maemo is linux09:32
adeusor operation to be exact09:32
cosmorkc_: on fremantle you probably use glib's threads09:33
cosmoalthough on glib you can do network stuff asynchronously09:34
Stskeepsadeus: eh. apt-cache rdepends then09:34
rkc_cosmo: thanks for the keyword.. :) let me explore it..09:34
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cosmoon qt it's even more easier09:34
adeusah09:34
rkc_cosmo: yep.. but currently i am trying to learn hildon...09:34
adeusthat lists all the packages09:35
cosmook, then see glib's documentation09:35
rkc_cosmo: sure.. any example code.. tat would be easier for me to grab..09:35
goodwillsvanheulen: see your PM09:35
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cosmorkc_: can be found by googling09:35
rkc_ok09:36
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cosmoand glib is same on maemo and desktop linux, so you don't have to search maemo specific examples09:36
Tonzasanybody knows is there any combination for TAB key at microb. It would be useful when filling up forms or login details :o - ill tested with ctrl+i but it wont work at browser...09:36
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Untouchab1eso i got QT creator and the SDK installed.. What must I do with the QT creator?09:39
Untouchab1ein order to start developing for Maemo?09:39
adeustype code? :)09:39
SplasPoodYou must sacrifice a virgin09:40
SplasPoodThen the QT Creator will reveal all09:40
Untouchab1eBut to Debug, I need to do something..09:41
Untouchab1eand what about the maemo UI..09:41
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Untouchab1eor do I just create my app as a normal qt project then just run it in scratchbox?09:44
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lucentdur... I just killed my rootfs on N90009:52
lucentI know what I did though, is there a way to mount it on a laptop computer or something?09:52
lucentrecovery terminal?09:52
ruskiehmm fun... now if I want to control volume I need to unlock the device first...09:52
ruskielucent, do you get any boot?09:52
ruskieor just a Nokia logo09:52
pwnguinits a nand flash. good luck with that09:52
lucentruskie: yeah I got tired of unlocking, so I run without lock-by-default09:53
cosmolucent: sounds like you need to reflash09:53
lucentruskie: Nokia logo, then power LED fades from bright (white) and dims, and reboot09:53
lucentendless yup09:53
ruskielucent, I got hit by the same thing09:53
Stskeepslucent: give the community some time to create rescue tools or help out doing so :)09:53
ruskiehad to reflash rootfs09:53
StskeepsPR1.1 gives ample opportunity to prepare for rescue in advance09:53
lucentit was 'cause I am trying to free up some space to do the Maemo5 upgrades09:53
Corsachmhm, the internet radio stuff seems a bit picky09:54
ruskieneed to give an initramfs a try09:54
CorsacI tried to add three radio stations and none worked because of “unsupported media”09:54
ruskiethat would actually be usable if it can be booted in09:54
lucentI'm not afraid of reflash, but is that the most sane thing to do here?09:54
ruskieCorsac, were they shout/icecast ?09:54
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ruskielucent, as it stands I think so09:54
Corsachttp://stream.kcdx.com/KCDX / http://citadelcc-KLOS-FM.wm.llnwd.net/citadelcc_KLOS_FM / http://live.cumulusstreaming.com/KSAN-FM?MSWMExt=.asf09:54
fralscrap, forgot to enable powersaving on the wifi again and the battery is almost discharged now, knew i shouldve brought the real charger and not just the usb cable >_<09:55
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lucentruskie: thanks. will give it a whirl. any special advice for me - I'm on Ubuntu - ?09:55
Corsacruskie: I think thrice are asf format, which is kind-of common for internet radios I think09:55
ruskieCorsac, not really09:55
pwnguinreflashing is sane. apparently works in linux. check the wiki09:55
ruskiethe common internet radio format is shout/icecast09:55
ruskieeverything else is ok so we want an easy to deploy solution but don't care about people using anything else but our software09:56
Corsacwell, all FM radio station streaming on internet I know use asf :/09:56
cosmoshout/icecast streams usually mp3 or ogg stream09:56
cosmoasf is some microsoft special format afaik09:56
ruskieyup09:57
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Corsacyes, and it's surely a piece of crap, but it /is/ widely used :)09:57
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ruskienot really09:57
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pwnguinthese days i can even stream real in totem09:57
cosmonot, all internet radios i listen are ogg or mp3 streams09:57
ruskieCorsac, hmm do you have the extra codecs support09:58
ruskie?09:58
ruskiethat might give you this09:58
Corsacok guys, I don't want to troll on that, I don't like that fact either, but it is a fact09:58
ruskieelse it probably needs to be added09:58
Corsachmhm, I have ogg support, but I'm not sure about “extra codecs”09:58
Corsacwill check09:58
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ruskiehttp://www.shoutcast.com/ <-- tons of stations here, and here --> http://dir.xiph.org/index.php09:59
pwnguinCorsac: numerically theres a hell of a lot of shoutcast. asf might be more popular for fm radio stations with inet presnce10:00
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Corsacthat's what I'm talking about since the beginning :/10:00
ruskiebut probably won't find normal stations there much10:00
ruskieCorsac, as for widely used I haven't seen all that many to tell the truth :)10:01
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ruskieand asf is streaming but that just pushes wma over from what I can tell10:01
ruskiehttp://wiki.barix.com/index.php5/Windows_Media_streaming <-- but technical10:01
ruskiemaybe try running that url with mplayer ?10:01
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Corsacruskie: don't have mplayer installed on the device but it does work fine on a desktop at least10:02
goodwillvlc works nicely too10:02
goodwilljust no ui10:02
lucentI'm kind of confused by which N900 firmware I need to download, who's done that before and can advise me?  I'm located in the USA and bought my N900 off Amazon retail online10:02
Corsacextra-codec is in extra-devel?10:03
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lucent"OS 2009 version 2.2009.51-1" for USA, right?10:03
ruskielucent, it says at the side10:03
ruskieyes10:03
ruskiesounds about right10:03
ruskieCorsac, I think it's been renamed to something "friendlier"10:04
ruskiedecoders-support10:04
ruskieMaemo-Display-Name: Decoders Support10:04
ruskiethat's the thing10:04
lucentthanks ruskie10:05
Corsachttp://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?s=c0ad98f260e65aebd0199018b324edbc&p=453764&postcount=12 doesn't look very promising though10:05
Corsachmhm yeah, it was already installed anyway10:06
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ruskieCorsac, well he did say he'll look into it :)10:06
lucentI don't understand how we are supposed to do a 90MiB Maemo5 update from Nokia when the rootfs fills up so bloody quickly10:06
ruskielucent, were you using apt-get or HAM?10:06
Corsacarg, HAM doesn't support quick access with typing stuff10:06
ruskieCorsac, I think there's a bug10:06
lucentruskie: I tried HAM and apt-get, there was 30MiB free on rootfs10:06
ruskieham supposedly stores things somewhere other than root10:07
ruskiethe temporary ones10:07
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lucentruskie: my failing was when I tried to relocate /usr/share to /opt/somewhere10:07
ruskiemine was no clue why10:08
ruskieprobably the ctrl+c I had to do during apt-get dist-upgrade10:08
lucentah10:08
ruskieduring setting up whatever10:08
ruskieI reran dpkg --configure -a10:08
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ruskiebut I guess something broke someplace anyway10:08
tekojoNotice: wiki.maemo.org and garage.maemo.org went offline10:08
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ruskieI simply couldn't use HAM since I had the metapackage removed10:09
* lucent grins10:09
lucentthat's a pain!10:09
ruskieI really wish there were more small rolling updates10:09
BriGe http://www.lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139723800 please com on this site. thats not a virus10:09
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ruskielol10:09
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ruskienot a virus :)10:10
lucentagreed, the big updates should really be some kind of "You need to do a reflash." advice10:11
lucentwhoa, it's like DALnet here today with the splits10:11
pwnguinthey'd get more hits with "its not porn"10:11
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ruskie:)10:12
ruskiewell reported him in #freenode10:12
ruskie:)10:12
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pwnguinwas the n800 this much a pain to update?10:13
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pwnguinklines?10:14
Stskeeps.. why is random people being k-lined?10:14
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prontoprobally spam bots10:14
prontoor something of that nature10:14
pwnguinsolarion isnt a spambot10:14
prontodid somethign wrong then10:14
ruskieklines?10:14
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ruskieI get a netsplit here10:14
prontothers both k-lines and netsplits going on atm10:15
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lucentI was k-lined earlier, though I am IRC'ing from a shared unix resource10:15
lucentsome kind of cyber war10:15
BriGehttp://www.lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139723800 New website browser.10:15
prontothen false postivies10:15
pronto:p10:15
ruskieow look again10:15
pwnguindiaf brige10:15
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Stskeepssomething tells me that's spam10:16
Stskeeps:P10:16
pwnguinlike i said10:16
ruskielatvia10:16
pwnguinthey'd get more hits with "its not porn"10:16
prontofor the n900 is there a way to force a rescan10:16
prontobesides a reboot (for music)10:16
ruskiepronto, restart tracker?10:16
ruskieor try a hup signal to it?10:16
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lucentpronto: kind of joking, but a very strong magnet?10:17
ruskielol10:17
lucentbad idea, don't do that!10:17
prontohaha10:17
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prontothers no acutly harddiscs though O_o10:17
lucentthe mount/unmount switch for microSD card is a magnet attached to the back case10:17
lucentthat's the truth10:17
prontoyeah flash/sd stuff isnt effected by magnets10:18
pwnguinexcept it is10:18
lucentI have no idea if that triggers any rescan in the media player when mount/unmount attempt of the microSD10:18
prontowell i dont have a SD card in my n900 atm10:18
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prontoi have one, just not using it, (its only 4GB) so meh10:18
prontohttp://easytag.sourceforge.net/  side note << this is awesome10:19
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lucentthat's another problem with what I said, true10:19
pwnguineasiest way to restart tracker?10:19
prontoi guess cli ?10:19
pwnguinno init.d10:19
ruskiemight be10:20
prontoyeah, cli= commanline interfane10:20
prontolol10:20
prontobe neat if you could run bash scripts from the desktop place, i'm sure theres a a way10:20
pwnguinthere is10:20
pwnguinmake a .desktop10:20
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ruskieyou could try: pkill -1 trackerd10:21
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grishnaveek10:21
pwnguinstick it in /usr/share/application/hildon10:21
ruskieit might tell it to reload10:21
grishnavi think if ound a bug with pr1.110:21
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lucentgrishnav: what kind of problem?10:21
grishnavlucent: in the media player, can no longer seek in mp3s accessed by http10:21
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lucentgrishnav: oh, I never had that to work anyways10:22
prontonot seeing a tracker in /etc/init.d/10:22
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grishnavbut the person hosting the mp3s has been having server trouble recently, so it's possible they switched servers and it's not supporting the appropriate http commands to do so10:22
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grishnavanyone else use this feature and can try it?10:22
pwnguinwebdav?10:23
lucentis 2009SE_2.2009.51 the same as PR1.1 being mentioned?10:23
grishnavaannddd.... now seeking is working10:23
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grishnavyeah, i'm gonna say this is a media player bug not present in 1.0 or 1.0.1 :)10:23
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* lucent flashes N900 to 2009.51-110:27
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pupnikthat's the other thing, to submit decent bugreports, if you can flash, do10:32
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lucentso hey, if my rootfs (N900) was too full, when I use the Backup util to restore a previous backup, do I want to avoid the Application List restoration?10:33
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koala_manhow do I turn off the clicking sound?10:33
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ruskielucent, not really10:35
ruskieatleast I restored it that way10:35
ruskiemore or less worked fine10:36
pekujakoala_man: I think it's in profile settings10:36
pupnikkoala_man: settings10:36
koala_manpekuja: oh, indeed. thanks!10:38
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tybolltok10:39
pekujaspeaking of sounds, does anybody know why alarms still make a sound when a silent profile is enabled?10:39
tybolltI'm really starting to enjoy my n900 experience now10:39
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* RST38h yawns widely10:39
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wazdRST38h: heya10:40
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koala_manI was confused because the vibration setting was under 'Display'10:40
RST38hwazd: remoo10:40
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jXyou mean that doesn't make sense? ;)10:41
RST38hAhahhaha: http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/apa/1549254971.html10:41
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Hukkapekuja: Not hard to test...10:43
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Hukkapekuja: Whops, sorry, morning vision...10:44
Hukkapekuja: I want to have my alarms make sound even in silent. I don't want to get calls at night, but I do want to wake up10:44
Hukkapekuja: But calendar reminders are silent10:44
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pupnikhow about you set calls to forward to mailbox when you don't want to get calls10:45
pekujaHukka: yeah, I have to admit with my previous phone I sometimes had the phone on silent and it didn't make a peep when I had to wake up10:45
lucentHukka: clock alarm will sound in silent mode10:46
lucentHukka: calendar alarm will not sound in silent mode10:46
pekujalucent: yeah, I know10:46
Hukkalucent: Yes?10:46
pekujalucent: that's what he just said :-P10:46
Lynourelucent: that migh actually be just like I want it.10:46
Hukkalucent: And he asked "why"10:46
Lynoures/migh/might/10:46
infobotLynoure meant: lucent: that might actually be just like I want it.10:46
pekujahmm10:46
fatal^pekuja: how about teaching people some manners and not call on inappropirate times?10:46
fatal^:)10:47
pekujafatal^: huh? no, there's no problem with people calling10:47
lucentI'm Captain Obvious aka lucent, be here all night.10:47
lucentfatal^: I get robo-dialed by TMobile collections10:47
fatal^pekuja: my solution  seems much easier then forwarding calls to voicemail.10:47
LynoureThat way you can go to movies without having to check that you do not have some obscure calendar alarm, but you can set a clock alarm to remind you to make the phone non-silent again10:48
pekujafatal^: the problem I had was that I had an alarm that went off when I had the phone on silent, and it was embarrasing10:48
pekujathe real solution is of course not to use alarms for non-important stuff10:48
pekujawell actually that one was actually an alarm, because I just had woken up before my alarm, but anyways10:48
wazdRST38h: http://video.online.ua/124908/ *warning, a little NFSW*10:48
wazdRST38h: that's near my house :)10:48
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lucentthey have a bug in their system and don't have any means to alert the people responsible to fix it10:48
lucentso, I get called everyday at 7am by a computer10:48
pekujaI wonder if repeating calendar events have been added in an update10:48
LynoureWith my Palm Treo I couple of times had embarrassing "my fave tv show" alerts in situations like that10:48
pekujabecause I can't remember exactly why I was using alarms instead of calendar events for some of my notifications10:48
pekujafatal^: there's no problem with people calling me10:49
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HukkaI get emails during the night... Didn't leave the notification sound on after first night10:49
Hukkafatal^: What?10:49
Hukkafatal^: What are you talking about, the question was about the alarm function10:49
fatal^09:44 < pupnik> how about you set calls to forward to mailbox when you don't want to get calls10:49
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koala_mancan I add a shortcut to an arbitrary command or script?10:49
koala_manon the desktop10:49
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Hukkapekuja: Hm? Repeated events was on the phone even in the first retail fw10:50
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HukkaLynoure: Oh, and hi :)10:50
* tybollt <3 noscript10:50
LynoureHukka: I was about to ask whether it's you or some other Hukka10:51
HukkaIt's me. It's been quite a long time when I last had to fight for this nick10:51
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jyskywhat's the status of syncml over ip with new firmware?10:52
tybolltbrowsing newspaper sites w/out it is vritually impossible10:52
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HukkaUgh, my freenode node is laggy this morning10:53
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pekujaHukka: yeah, I'm just wondering what the reason was for me to use alarms for stuff that should had been calendar event10:53
pekuja+s10:53
lucentHukka: freenode is being attacked by spam bots10:53
HukkaWhat is this? No "new posts" link on tmo anymore :/10:53
HukkaNo, wait... my browser has logged me out :)10:54
HukkaMaybe I should make some tea10:54
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ruskiejysky, from what I know still not there10:59
jysky:(10:59
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jyskythought so, as there were nothing about it in change log11:01
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ruskiejysky, there is syncevolution11:02
ruskieta sync it11:02
ruskieerm to syncml it11:02
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ruskiebut I hadn't had much luck with my setup mainly due to a syncevo missing feature... it does work apparently for other people with different setups11:03
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ruskiegah this is annoynig11:08
ruskieneeding to unlock the device to control volume11:08
ruskieI mean even the n95 allowed to me mess with the volume when fully locked11:09
ruskieand here I was hopping I wouldn't even need to bring up the screen anymore to control the sound11:09
fralsit did? where was that setting? i always had to unlock it to change volume11:10
vesathats why i bought earplugs with a volumecontrol11:10
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ruskiefrals, I never had to unlock11:11
L0cutusre11:11
ruskiejust turn the screen on11:12
ruskienow I actually need to unlock it to have it work11:12
ruskievesa, I don't like or tend to use earplugs11:12
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fralsi usually just slid the display to get to the play/pause buttons and then changed volume thou so wasnt that big of a deal11:13
vesaruskie: great in open offices if they have noise cancellation =)11:13
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vesafrals: that's not really an option if you set a playlist and get on the tube and you're wearing n+1 layers of clothes with the n900 in your innerjackets breastpocket11:14
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ruskievesa, erm... open office here... and I don't need noise cancelation11:18
ruskieI just need a drone in the background11:18
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fralsunderstandably not since that was how i used my n95 ;-)11:19
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guido_gdoes anyone know if there is another copy of the pymaemo docs available online? garage is down atm11:20
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jpe__got the new firmware installed, all seems ok, but what's the new convention for the the led, it's blinking lightblue...11:23
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ruskieguido_g, garage is down for the day but maybe try archive.org or google cache?11:23
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guido_gahh... archive.org, i always forget about that, thanks ruskie11:24
ruskie:)11:25
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leon-_what's the best rss reader for the n900?11:28
guido_gha! http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo <- there it is11:28
RST38hGoogle Reader?11:28
guido_gbest?11:29
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guido_gcompared to what? what are the expectations?11:29
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siriusnovaso im debating wether to pop in my sim into my N90011:35
siriusnovadoes 1.2 make it phone ready?11:35
siriusnova:P11:35
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`0660i've been able to use it as a phone since day one11:36
`0660i wonder how mighty requirements you might have11:36
`0660:)11:36
pupnikI managed to reflash a second time with the damaged microusb port11:36
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pupnikimmediately after inserting, i avoided any movement around cable11:36
Corsac1.2?11:36
pupnikwhatever latest on tablet-dev is11:36
pupnik1.111:37
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leon-_guido_g, I guess I'm looking for the sort of a really simple widget-like reader that would allow multiple feeds and only show links to the articles in the feeds with a nice ui11:37
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* MaemohammadAG found a bug11:38
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Markus23What has changend in the latest maemo 5 update?11:41
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Markus23maps seems to be improved a lot11:41
siriusnovareally?11:42
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siriusnovahow so11:42
prontothe front camera is a bit better11:42
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villager~pr1.111:43
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villagerhmm11:43
pupnik_http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1  maemo pr1.1 update changes11:43
infobotmethinks pr1.1 is http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.111:43
Markus23which application used the front camera?11:44
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pupnik_thanks villager, i didn't know the infobot key11:44
Markus23is pr1.1 2.2009.51-1?11:44
villagerI saw it yesterday11:44
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villageryes, markus11:47
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MaemohammadAGMarkus23, mirror uses the front cam11:47
MaemohammadAGthere was a dark side on the right of the image11:47
MaemohammadAGthat got fixed, but the quality is still not as good as other devices11:47
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villageri can recognize my own face now though11:48
DenierButtonI have to ask something. Is there some way to get despotify to autoconnect with username/password?11:48
wazdRST38h: do you know what does this -> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/h/hildon-theme-layout-5/hildon-theme-layout-5_0.13.2-1+0m5_all.deb  Size mismatch | mean? :)11:50
Stskeepswazd: means server move in progress :P11:51
wazdStskeeps: well, it was yesterday :)11:51
Stskeepsbut yeah, that error is weird11:51
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X-Fadewazd: Cached in the network.11:52
feriyes, we are in the middle of the move. we have to flush the CDN caches every now and then.11:52
feribut they should be OK soonish...11:52
ferithe repo backend is holding nicely and that's what matters.11:52
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* lcuk passes coffee and goodluck charms to X-Fade and feri 11:55
jpe__is that blinking white LED just indicating 'alive' for the n900 ( after upgrade ?)11:55
acidjazzhai11:55
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acidjazzany sweet new apps11:56
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ferithanks lcuk!11:56
pupnik_usbcontrol "to enable host mode" is interesting11:56
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alteregoGod the maemo.org website is schlow11:57
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alteregoCatchable fatal error: Object of class midcom_core_user could not be converted to string in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/core/privilege.php on line 67012:04
alteregoNice12:04
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Stskeepsthings are moving:P12:05
pupnik_catorise is a pretty cool applet - puts application icons into their user/section categories12:05
prontoto bad maemo.org is down x.x12:05
pupnik_pronto, alterego: switchover day to new servers.  leave complaints for tomorrow12:06
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alteregopupnik_: ah, that's today. Fair nuff12:06
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threshup for me12:09
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grishnavis freenode really slow right now?12:13
ifreqits lagging12:13
ifreqas always12:13
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Arkenoimugen power announced 2200mAh batteries. quite a strange number: too small for double size, too big for standard12:14
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bleadera slightly bigger in the same format would be quite nice, I'm most of the time barely making the day, would feel good to have a little spare :)12:15
bleadersligthly bigger battery that is12:16
pupnik_how about a tiny battery in front of real battery to allow battery swapping12:17
Arkenoislightly bigger means custom back cover anyways12:17
pupnik_yep12:17
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bleaderArkenoi: sligthly bigger capacity, that's why I said, same format12:18
pupnik_also if you hold back cover off, lay another battery on, then lay the cover on that, you can see what a 'brick' really looks like12:18
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ifreqim thinking about getting usb charger battery packs12:19
ifreqlike zagg sparq12:19
Arkenoii wish it had big support stand like n800 had, not that small frame around the camera which makes the thing too easy to drop over and almost useless when the keyboard is slid down12:19
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alteregoThe kick stands are really only useful when watching media.12:20
alteregoI guess that's their only purpose.12:20
alteregoMight be fine with a BT keyboard though.12:20
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tybolltalterego: bullshit, the kickstand is very usefull for me when at work... having the thing between the screen and the keyboard is very pleasant.12:21
tybolltI get calendar notifications and whatnot12:21
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MaemohammadAGit's not useful if you want to use it12:22
tybolltarkenoi's analysis is, IMHO, very accurate, the stand on the n900 is an engineering FAIL or, more likely, a trade-off between design and functionality where functionality lost to design :P12:22
MaemohammadAGi'd say it's the former :P12:22
Arkenoin900 is quite uncomfortable to type two-handed on the hard surface, you need to place something soft under12:22
alteregotybollt: that's pretty much just watching media though isn't ot.12:23
alteregoYou're not really interacting with the device, don't get me wrong, without a stand would be worse, I'd make one if that was the case, just so I can have a nice viewing angle on my desk like you describe.12:23
tybolltalterego: watching media, watching text as they popin, watching email alerts, watching calendar events... etc12:23
RST38htybollt: Neither fail nor tradeoff12:23
alteregoExactly12:23
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RST38htybolt: they simply reused design from symbian phones12:23
tybolltRST38h: I said "IMHO" :)12:24
alteregoPersonally, I'd only ask that the next device, the stand would be sturdy enough to interact with the touch screen, I don't care asbout keyboard usage as that's something you can really only do with it in your hands anyway.12:24
alteregoThe N810 stand annoyed me slightly, because it wasn't sturdy enough to use the touch screen when not fully opened, in a more vertical orientation.12:25
MaemohammadAGhttp://twitpic.com/y5xvc LOL12:25
alteregoBut meh, at least you could use it, even if it did fall down a bit.12:26
ArkenoiRST38h, why not take it from n800 instead?12:26
tybolltyes, that's... my .oO( ... ) too :)12:27
woglindemoo12:27
alteregoIt'd be even nicer if the stand could aid in auto image capture.12:29
alteregoImage/video12:29
`0660n800 stand is perfect, but the n900 stand is so much better than no stand at all :)12:29
tybolltfair enough... :)12:30
wazdall we hear is Ladio Gaga12:32
wazd*clap-clap*12:33
ruskieI hope Mugen might make a better back and stand with a thicker battery ;)12:33
tybolltmugen?12:34
ruskiethey make more powerfull batteries that tend to need a replacement cover12:34
woglindelady gaga?12:35
woglindeoh now12:35
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MaemohammadAGtybollt, they make extended batteries12:35
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Stskeepsmorning andre__12:35
MaemohammadAGsometimes the same size as the original12:35
MaemohammadAGand ruskie they already confirmed it12:35
ruskiethat it'll have a better stand?12:35
andre__heja Stskeeps!12:36
ruskieI know they are working on an extend battery12:36
ruskieI'm wondering if they'll improve the stand as well12:36
ruskieif they'll even have it12:36
MaemohammadAGruskie, i think it's the same size12:36
ruskiethe extended battery?12:37
MaemohammadAGlike the 1800mAh n97 battery12:37
MaemohammadAGyeah12:37
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ruskiehmm12:37
ruskiewill see :)12:37
MaemohammadAGtheir 1800 battery is the same size as the 1500 one12:37
ruskiestill hoping for 2000+12:37
MaemohammadAG4000 hopefully12:37
tybollthttp://byebyeos.com/mugen-is-developing-a-powerful-battery-for-n912:37
MaemohammadAG(not joking)12:37
ruskieI think that's a bit of an overkill12:38
tybollt4000... dude12:38
range2300-2400 says mugen's website.12:38
MaemohammadAG6000 then :p12:38
tybolltrange: formfactor? Same as current?12:38
ruskieyeah I think I've read the same12:38
rangehttp://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900.html12:38
ruskiethough on such a device 4k or 6k would be nice12:38
MaemohammadAGoff to the british council12:40
MaemohammadAGbbl12:40
rangetybollt: I'd hope so. A thicker battery backdoor on the n900 would lead to cube device.12:40
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tybolltrange: my point exactly12:40
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* ruskie doesn't really care if it becomes brick sized12:40
tybolltI do12:41
tybolltI'd hate to have to buy baggy pants to use my n900 :-|12:41
range:)12:41
ruskielol12:41
Nitialmobira cityman n90012:41
ruskieI don't keep anything in my pants pockets12:41
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jaskaanything up to nokia 2110i with high capacity battery -size is ok with me12:41
ruskiethe 2110i needs a high capacity battery???12:42
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ruskiehow long does it last then? a month?12:42
tybolltthe 2110i? Aka "the milk package"? :)12:42
jaskabout a week or so.. its been a while, was my first gsm12:42
ruskiemy n5110 lasted 2 weeks or so12:43
ruskieand even after 6 years I still got a week out of it12:43
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mango_is it possible to catch an SMS message before the user gets notified about it in maemo5?12:43
chem|sthas someone a link ready for the comparison picture for EU/US to DE keypad? cant find it anymore12:44
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`0660i wish ctrl+space would change the keyboard layout too in addition to changing the input languages12:46
`0660sucks to try to write two languages currently...12:47
`0660hmm, maybe there is a bug for that12:48
inz`0660, if you find one, or create one, ill vote for it12:49
nomisis this usefull for two languages both based on the latin charset?12:50
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rangebug 2501 - and it looks like there is a solution on the way12:51
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2501 Hardware keyboard doesn't switch Input language when pressing Ctrl+Space12:51
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`0660nomis, yes it is12:53
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`0660at least in finnish ä and ö letters are used in about 20% of the words12:54
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wazdhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/15/symbian-provides-early-glimpse-at-2011-nokia-smartphone-experien/12:54
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`0660and using a and o instead of them looks really clumsy12:54
`0660and sometimes changes the meaning12:54
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inzwazd, looks totally not unlike maemo512:58
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nomis`0660: I am just worried about the discrepancy between the stuff printed on the KB and the functionality. This would probably need a big fat status indicator somewhere.13:00
inznomis, for me the problem is indeed the prints, i have uk/us layout printed so id like to normally use it13:01
`0660when pressing ctrl+space, it already says quite clearly that it is changing the input languages13:01
`0660also, this would only happen with people who have set up two languages13:02
StskeepsDocScrutinizer51, ruskie, etc: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html13:02
inznomis, but nt want to go through major hassle when writing finnish13:02
`0660yeah, i also have us layout, so i have huge trouble inputting special characters in finnish layout13:02
nomisyeah, I understand the problem. I am german and I cannot even enter 'ß' at all with the english kb layout.13:02
ruskieStskeeps, SWEET13:03
`0660i'm sure a status bar applet would be trivial to implement13:03
ruskiemight even interest Jebba :)13:03
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nomisbut when switching the layout 'z' and 'y' would exchange position...13:04
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Stskeepsruskie: i use the snapshot thing very often as i screw up my n900 immensely at times13:04
ruskieStskeeps, I wish that was known earlier13:05
nomis`0660: heh,. that notifier does not even tell me which language it switched *to*. Plus it disappears within a second.13:05
Stskeepsruskie: yeah, sorry, known the info for months but i should have blogged it earlier :P13:05
ruskieStskeeps, any way to grab a snapshot of the devices rootfs? other than ssh tar it over?13:05
Stskeepsruskie: i rsync it to SD personally13:06
Stskeepsruskie: noone says we can't do something cool with g_ether and bootmenu.sh now though13:06
thesovrsync is good!13:06
thesovhey sts remember me im the guy with the x64 who bricked the n90013:06
Stskeepsruskie: like remount the rootfs read-only and then ship it over13:06
Stskeepsthesov: does it work again?13:06
thesovthanks to your help its working again13:06
`0660i'm pretty used to changing the layout whenever the characters i type don't match my expectations13:06
Stskeepsthe nokia guys were helpful?13:06
thesovI went over to the nokia store and asked them to charge my batter and they just replaced it with a new one for me13:07
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thesovi had a battery that was part of a recall a 5c or something13:07
Stskeepsoh, that's cool13:07
CorsacStskeeps: flasher can snapshot your rootfs?13:07
ruskiethere's a battery recall?13:08
StskeepsCorsac: no, sadly13:08
thesovyeah if your battery model ends in 5c13:08
Corsacso how do you do that? with dd?13:08
ruskiethesov, on any device?13:08
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thesovany n series device13:08
StskeepsCorsac: rsync your rootfs over to ext3 :P13:08
Stskeepsand then re-make the fs13:08
Stskeepsit's just files anyway13:08
thesovhttp://batteryreplacement.nokia.com/batteryreplacement/en/13:08
Stskeepsruskie: heh, other possibility.. - defrag for n900 ;p13:08
CorsacStskeeps: ok13:08
Stskeepsrsync everything out, recompress, flash back ;p13:09
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thesovwhen you use the flasher utility doesnt it just erase your root fs anyway?13:09
Stskeepsyeah13:09
Stskeepsbut now we can make own rootfs's too13:09
thesoveh?13:09
Stskeepsthesov: well, make our own rootfs's we can flash onto device13:10
ruskieStskeeps, I wasn't aware it needed defraging ;)13:10
* ruskie hopes he finally has the breakrepo script working13:10
thesovhow does that work, i thought the 256 meg disk on chip was the only boot capable device13:10
Stskeepsthesov: nah, most stuff is boot capable13:10
Stskeepsbut we have multiboot too13:10
thesovso you dont use the nokia updates?13:11
* ruskie wonders who at nokia ppl would have to beg to replace nolo with uboot13:11
wazddamn, I can't even check out my own theme :D13:11
thesovwouldnt that break your setup?13:11
nomisthe battery in my n900 is a BL-5J13:11
Stskeepswazd: you should be able to insert it into Maemo SDK too13:11
thesovmine was too nomis but they replaced it anyway13:12
ruskie/home/user/MyDocs/.break-repository/break-osso-profiles-l10n-frca_6.0+r7359+0m5_all.deb mmm... hope the preinst script will work once I try it...13:12
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lcukwazd you are the only person in russia without an n900 (who wants one).  what exactly prevents you from getting one unlike all the other people?13:13
Muhvihi, should the browser support vertical browsing now? and how do i enable it ?13:13
Muhvi(N900)13:13
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Stskeepsctrl-shift-o, slide keyboard bac kin13:13
thesovcontrol shift o13:13
Muhvimhmhm13:13
ruskieStskeeps, do make the bootmenu hook for teh sd dump though13:13
Muhvidoesn't seem to do anything with my phone13:13
thesovhas anyone figured out how to overclock the phone?13:13
ruskieStskeeps, but how could you have fixed the issue that happened to me... i.e. NOKIA logo keeps reloading13:13
wazdlcuk: I'm not that rich13:13
Stskeepsthesov: we got explictly warned not to do that at summit13:14
Stskeepsit -will- torch the cpu13:14
Stskeeps:P13:14
thesovi know13:14
wazdlcuk: $1k is a bit high price even for a device I want13:14
Stskeeps(i think they tested)13:14
thesovthats why im going to add a heatsink to my cpu13:14
thesovits below the battery13:14
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thesovand theirs a metal plate right their13:14
Stskeepsafter your close call, isn't that a bit risk?13:14
Stskeepsy13:14
thesovso if u use thermal grease and small sheet of glass u can thermally connect the cpu to the metal enclosure13:15
lcukahh13:15
ruskieI'm actually worried with the heat simply while I have openvpn running and some music playing13:15
woglindehi lcuk13:15
ruskiethesov, glass???13:15
Stskeepsthesov: keep in mind this isn't a traditional x86 processor :P13:15
lcukdid you solve your paypal issue?13:15
thesovnot the regular glass, the stuff they use to make processor dies13:15
lcuki will happily put something into it13:15
ruskiebtw Stskeeps what are those full path to base ubi img things?13:15
thesovbut the unit feels so underpowered13:16
redeemanStskeeps: don't we need to flash another bootloader to boot from sd?13:16
lcuk(not much mind you lol, but certainly ill help you along your way a little)13:16
fralswazd: did you sign up on the fremantle device listqueuethingy on the wiki?13:16
thesovwhen i open the app manager, im not kidding the processor spikes at 100 percent for over 30 seconds13:16
wazdfrals: yes13:16
Stskeepsredeeman: no, but kernel is always loaded from USB or from NAND13:16
fralsokey, just checking so you didnt miss that :)13:16
Stskeepsredeeman: in most cases the system is OK enough to run /sbin/preinit13:16
ruskiethesov, so try doing a cat on /var/dpkg/lib/status on a debian system13:16
ruskieit takes a while to do it as well13:17
alteregoI'm working on a scratchbox+buildroot system for the company I work for for our own embedded linux dist.13:17
wazdlcuk: it can't be "fixed"13:17
redeemanStskeeps: ah ok, i wanted to run a custom kernel13:17
alteregoPretty fun.13:17
lcuk:(13:17
wazdlcuk: it's paypal issue13:17
thesovbut the n900 catalogs are much smaller than a full blown debian system13:17
ruskieredeeman, you can :)13:17
Stskeepsredeeman: you are fully able to13:17
ruskiethesov, relative to the device not really13:17
redeemanruskie: yes but i was hoping i didn't have to put new on nand or new bootloader13:17
Stskeepsredeeman: just don't assume kexec works :/13:17
Stskeepsalterego: my condolences, you will loose your sanity13:18
alteregoredeeman: the flasher allows you to flash a kernel13:18
ruskiethesov, and the stuff you see in HAM is a small subset of the repositiories13:18
alteregoStskeeps: it's working pretty well so far :P13:18
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wazdlcuk: we have OMWeather account and we already spent $140 that we got on one DDP device13:18
ruskieredeeman, hmm so not replace the kernel? just have a second one available13:18
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redeemanruskie: elaborate, that would require me to switch bootloader no?13:18
wazdanyway, I don't want to discuss it actually13:19
ruskieredeeman, technically you can do it by following the instructions on Jebbas wiki page... backup the old modules... install the new kernel... restore the old modules13:19
ruskiethen you can use flasher to replace the kernel13:19
thesovthat flash update blew out all my symlinks and now i gotta recopy and recreate those symlinks , very annoying13:19
ruskiei.e. flash it back to original or to the new etc...13:19
lcukwazd not trying to push, just want to see your issue solved13:19
redeemanruskie: yeah i know i can flash to a new kernel, what i'd have liked to do was just load it from a file :)13:19
ruskieredeeman, petition nokie to switch to using uboot ?13:20
ruskieerm nokai13:20
ruskiegah13:20
ruskiecan't type13:20
redeemanyeah uboot owns13:20
alteregoThey wont do that ..13:20
Stskeepsruskie: not going to happen, especially with the changes for m6 devices13:20
ruskieI'd like to have it as well13:20
ruskieStskeeps, you mean DRM?13:20
Stskeepsruskie: sadly13:20
Stskeepsbut you don't switch bootloader mid-product13:20
ruskieto bad13:20
redeemani fail to see how that affects a bootloader13:21
ruskiehow about docs so that uboot devs can do it?13:21
ruskieredeeman, I'm guessing it'll have some drm hooks as well13:21
thesovhas anyone ported IW to n900? the aircrack for n900 requires it13:21
alteregoYou could do it if you get jtag working.13:21
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Stskeepsthere's no jtag ports visible on device pads, afaik13:21
ruskieStskeeps, I guess the n900 will be the only maemo device I'll own then13:21
redeemanruskie: i see no reason the bootloader needs to know any of that13:21
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ruskieredeeman, to be able to lock the kernel?13:21
alteregoI'm sure there's some on the inside ;)13:22
Stskeepsruskie: the DRM is quite less evil though :P13:22
ruskieStskeeps, it's still DRM13:22
thesov\13:22
ruskieI'm a tad hardcore on Free Software and DRM :)13:22
thesovwhy the hell would u want drm on an open device?13:22
* Stskeeps shrugs and leaves this discussion for the professionals13:22
redeemanruskie: theres no reason why people shouldn't be able to boot another kernel, they can just have DRM stuff not run on custom kernels13:22
Stskeepsredeeman: that's what the plan is13:22
lardmanthesov: so you can view/listen to DRM'd content perhaps?13:22
nomisis it harmless to change the password of the "user" user?13:22
redeemanas such, theres no reason they couldnt  use uboot13:22
ruskienomis, it's harmless to change passwords13:23
* nomis wants to login via dropbear.13:23
thesovid rather pirate it, than use the drm version13:23
thesovwhen you use drm content you are empowering people who sell it.13:23
redeemanStskeeps: ofcourse that doesn't mean nokia isn't asshat retarded for doing DRM, which is not gonna protect ANYTHING anyway13:23
lardmanwell that is truely wrong13:23
ruskieI'll just avoid DRMed media and software.. hell I even removed non-free from extras* repos13:23
threshhow do i get three stars on 1-2? ;)13:23
Stskeepsredeeman: the other side of it is that nolo comes with a lot of nice support tools for nokia service centers13:23
ruskiethesov, content is something you are :)13:23
Stskeepsporting that to uboot or the cost when a device suddenly has uboot instead of nolo is not neglible :P13:24
ruskieStskeeps, and none for the hackers13:24
redeemanstill, uboot is the superior software13:24
redeemaneveryone should be using it13:24
Stskeepsalso, uboot is kinda bloated13:24
Stskeeps:P13:24
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ruskieStskeeps, it's not asking for much... just provide either info on what uboot should do to boot or provide a build of uboot13:24
ruskiebut simply state it's not officially supported13:24
Stskeepsruskie: that info costs to create as well13:25
Stskeepsand what would benefit be? :P13:25
redeemanlol yeah, a few engineer hours13:25
lardmanplus some lawyer hours13:25
redeemanlardman: only if they are retarded and demands that13:25
lardmanbut I guess if you pay for the work it will get done13:25
Stskeepsplus maintaince hours13:25
lardmanredeeman: that is the way business works13:25
ruskieStskeeps, ability to do a lot of stuff without needing to rely on the flasher13:25
thesovhave you guys seen the pandora?, its supposed to be awesome but for some reason i cant get ahold of one13:25
Stskeepsa build of uboot isn't trivial either13:25
redeemanlardman: SOME businesses work13:25
redeemanStskeeps: he only asked for docs OR builds13:26
ruskiethesov, because they only do pre-orders for now iirc13:26
redeemandocs are created one time for each device13:26
lardmanthesov: it was supposed to be delivered more than a year ago, is still not done13:26
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ruskielardman, I thought they shipped decemberL13:26
Stskeepsredeeman: that said, restarting the flasher discussion wouldn't be a bad thing.13:26
Hukkapekuja: Have you noticed, that there are Megaman episodes in Ovi store :?13:26
lardmanruskie: I don't think so13:26
Stskeepserr13:26
Stskeepsruskie:13:26
ruskieStskeeps, ??? what flasher discussion?13:26
lardmanruskie: perhaps a couple of dev devices or something?13:26
ruskielardman, from what I know they had some 100+ consumer ones13:27
Stskeepsruskie: hang on while i find the thread13:27
thesovmy mouth is watering for flash 10 on the 90013:27
thesovhulu desktop!13:27
ruskielardman, ahh I see more issues13:27
lardmanruskie: http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98&Itemid=13&lang=en13:27
Stskeepsruskie: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-community@maemo.org/msg00874.html and http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-community@maemo.org/msg00903.html is rest of thread13:28
lardmanruskie: always more issues ;)13:28
ruskiethesov, and mine for a break repo so I can keep everything looking nice for HAM but remove flash completly13:28
thesovu want flash gone?13:28
thesovodd, why?13:28
ruskiethesov, it's non-Free and completly pointless and useless13:28
ruskie:)13:29
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Stskeepsruskie: basically nokia reached out but noone was there to actually do something about it13:29
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ruskieStskeeps, I wonder if the -community ML is better than the -devel one13:29
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thesovbut many many websites use it. also the flash on the n900 is not quite full it refuses to load apps that play music and the like13:29
Stskeepsruskie: i'll put flasher on my list but i will need to find people who know enough to maintain flasher13:29
Stskeepsor help maintaining it13:29
thesovplaylist, grooveshark etc dont work on the n90013:30
ruskieStskeeps, how about the 0xffff crew?13:30
Stskeepsruskie: it's one guy13:30
ruskieso ? it's a start13:30
ruskiethesov, I don't care if they use it... the web for me is NOT a media player, book reader etc... it's just a huge information store from where I can retrieve data(be it media or anything else)13:31
ruskiethesov, so only thing I generally need is a way to read text13:31
thesovso u want a base install and links?13:31
ruskieelinks if we're there to be precise :)13:32
ruskiebut yeah13:32
thesovim kidding of course :P13:32
ruskiethat is generally sufficent for my needs13:32
ruskieand I'm not the only one13:32
ruskieI know a person that doesn't even use X13:32
ruskiedoes everything in terminals13:32
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ruskiemost of the stuff I run is terminal based but I use X as a terminal multiplexer13:32
Stskeepstrue13:32
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thesovhas anyone ported IW to arm yet?13:33
thesovi need it for aircrack13:33
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villagerthesov: then those websites should stop using flash and find a technology that's not total pile of crap13:33
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lardmanlol http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/51442-what-is-the-status-of/13:34
lardmanread first post on that page, then last13:34
thesovalso i heard theirs a project to get a host controlling functionality on the n900?13:34
thesovusb*13:34
ruskiehow?13:35
thesovi dont know their is a project in the repository for it13:36
thesovits called usbcontrol13:37
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thesovi suppose one could be a usb client device that would have host control headers in it and pass info along to the n900 which could emulate the rest13:38
lardmanthesov: that's for the N8x0 devices iirc13:39
thesovusing an arduino or something a little more powerfull13:39
woglindecoolio13:39
woglindewe have maemo_vehicle for navit13:39
woglindeand the segfault problem is known13:39
ruskiehmm navit would be nice to have13:39
woglindefailure compiling with freetype13:40
ruskieand maybe hook it with espeak for the voice comms13:40
woglindeseems I will work hard this weekend13:40
woglindeto get into the builder13:40
woglinderuskie I nearly pushed all depends13:40
woglindeonly 2 or so missing13:40
thesovor maybe someone can write drivers for a network usb device?13:41
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ruskiethesov, there are a few USB/IP projects iirc13:42
ruskiehttp://usbip.sourceforge.net/13:42
ruskiehave fun13:42
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thesovgod, i really need to learn to program13:42
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ruskieI need to improve my skills to actually be bale to do anything other than shell scripting13:43
lardmannothing like a little project to motivate you13:43
ruskiebut so far shell scipting was always enough for all my needs13:43
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thesovwhat language would u guys recommend a beginner learn, i been hearing alot about python13:44
alteregoruskie: python or ruby would be a good evolution13:44
alteregothesov: ^13:44
lardmanpython I reckon13:44
lardmanor asm13:44
alteregoHeh13:44
lardman;)13:44
ruskiealterego, I already did some ruby and I actually like ruby since it let's me do things more or less the way I want them... not to mention no stupidy with whitespace like python has13:44
thesovits a good high level language? does it have serious limitations?13:45
glass_python you can find lots of 'newbie' coding howtos etc13:45
ruskiealterego, and I actually know Java minimal C and Pascal13:45
alteregoI'm contemplating writing maemo-lang ^.^13:45
ruskiethesov, it's retarted about whitespaces13:45
lardmannot really13:45
lardmanjust different13:46
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Gillythesov: Haskell is also a good option for general programming but it's not a good choice for Maemo (yet). I think it could be easier to learn Haskell when you have no former programming background in imperative languages.13:46
lardmanbut in terms of value for time invested, python will at least be useful on pretty much any platform13:47
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lardmanand has bindings for most things you might want to use that are not written in python13:47
hrwmorning13:47
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ruskieI don't have much of a problem with understanding the code as I do with writing it... generally takes me a lot of time to put an idea into code13:47
lardmanhrw: morning13:47
GillyPython would be my imperative language of choice as well.13:47
woglindehi hrw13:47
GillyIt's a very good language to get into touch with programming and move on from if needed.13:48
BirdFlewg'day all13:48
lardmanhi BirdFlew13:48
ruskielo13:48
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ruskiehmm Stskeeps do your instructions apply to the eMMC as well for flashing?13:50
Stskeepsno13:50
Stskeepsthat part i don't know anything about sorry13:50
ruskie:(13:50
BirdFleware the maemo repos down for anyone else?13:51
ruskieasking since I have emmc repartitioned13:51
ruskieBrumle, server move13:51
ruskiewill be offline for the day or so13:51
ruskiegah13:51
ruskieBirdFlew, even13:51
BirdFlewrighto13:51
Stskeepsruskie: i am kinda curious how that works though13:51
ruskieBirdFlew, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4049613:51
ruskieStskeeps, the repartitioning?13:51
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Stskeepsruskie: no, the emmc flash13:52
lardmanhmm, where was the server offline announcement?13:52
Stskeepslardman: everywhere, planet.maemo.org, t.m.o, etc13:52
ruskieeven a notice here13:52
lardmanml?13:52
Stskeepsthink so13:52
lardmanI didn't see it13:52
hrwkonttori: is there a way to know will nokia fix calendar bugs in pr1.2?13:53
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ruskieStskeeps, hmm well the emmc image can be disected... so I guess it could be rebuilt as well13:54
Stskeepsruskie: i think someone claimed it was a specialized kernel or something13:54
Stskeepswith a mini rootfs13:54
ruskieow13:54
ruskiehmm I must say the pr1.1 fixed one annoying thing... it doesn't disconnect me at random anymore13:55
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ruskiesometimes I just lost connection13:55
nibia@all Does anyone know how can I enable IPv6 at maemo 5??13:55
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hrwkonttori: for example #5294,13:56
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ruskienibia, new kernel13:56
ruskieand everything recompiled to support it?13:56
nibiayes13:56
ruskieconsidering the ipv4 exhaustion it's odd that ipv6 wasn't on by default13:56
ruskiebut I guess it's assume that most cellcos do some sort of nating13:57
nibia@ruskie humm, I see13:57
hrwkonttori: for example #5294, #6362, #5540, #5954, #6051, #6489 etc...13:58
hrwman... calendar UI has too many bugs to be listed ;(13:58
Stskeepsruskie: from Eero: - eMMC flashing isn't done by the bootloader, it starts kernel & minimal user-space system to do the eMMC flashing.13:58
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hrw94 bugs present in bugzilla...13:58
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Stskeepsruskie: i think i'm going to try and unpack a emmc image13:58
ruskieStskeeps, I did unpack it myself13:59
ruskiewhen I needed the default MyDocs :)13:59
Stskeepswell, flasher-3.5 -u?13:59
ruskieyup13:59
Stskeepsi just wonder how it's done13:59
ruskiehmm I think checking the init scipts is a good idea as well13:59
ruskieiirc there are some things mentioned there as well14:00
ruskiegah still no mailer switchboard14:00
Stskeepsruskie: i just wonder if there's more than the 'mmc' part of the fiasco image so14:01
ruskieStskeeps, feel free to check but I think there wasn't14:01
ruskieStskeeps, this might be of help as well: /etc/init.d/rcS:in_flash_mode()14:02
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ruskieStskeeps, and: start_softupd14:03
ruskieStskeeps, /etc/init.d/softupd.rcS14:03
ruskiethat's the thing14:04
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ruskiehmm need to see once bootmenu is updated to PR 1.1 about getting a rescue chroot or two on the device14:06
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ruskieor even a pivot_root14:06
Stskeepsyeah i guess softupd would be the one doing it14:06
tybollthmm14:07
tybolltis there return receipt posibility for texts?14:07
ruskietybollt, enable it iirc14:07
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tybolltaaah there it is, sorry :)14:09
Stskeepsruskie: then mmc flashing isn't as cool as i thought it was :P14:09
Stskeepsi thought it started a initrd and stuff so14:10
ruskieStskeeps, I guess one could even use dd :)14:10
Stskeepsyeah14:10
ruskiehmm still need to try making an initramfs14:10
Stskeepsyou need something that is merged with zimage somehow14:10
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ruskieinitramfs allows that14:10
ruskiejust enter it in the kernel config14:10
ruskieand it will store it into the kernel14:11
Stskeepsyeah, that needs to be checked14:11
ruskiefbcon would be I guess needed there though14:11
RST38hEeeek: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/15/china_avatar/14:12
Stskeepsruskie: in kernel, yeah14:12
ruskieI'll wait for Jebba to do another kernel build with the update14:12
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ruskiethen modify it for my needs... after that try to figure out how to do an initramfs14:13
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ruskieI never did any intir{d/amfs} setups14:13
alteregoruskie: it just so happens I've been working on initramfs' all week ^.^14:13
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ruskiealterego, for the n900?14:14
ruskieRST38h, good thing I'll never bother watching it14:14
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alteregoruskie: No, for an embedded system we use at work.14:15
alteregoruskie: same kind of thing though14:15
RST38hruskie: I probably will, in a year or so14:16
RST38hruskie: May, after all, be good14:16
ruskieRST38h, I saw a nice fail entry somewhere... goes like this: -Disney's- Cameron's -Pocahontas- Avatar14:17
ruskie:)14:17
ruskiesimply substituning names and events14:17
ruskieapparently most of the story is the same :)14:17
Nitialit's not even the only one :)14:18
Nitialhttp://jboriss.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/james_cameron_avatar1.png14:18
RST38hruskie: Well, the theme itself is not new14:18
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SpeedEvilnobbing aliens.14:18
RST38hNitial: Ahhahaha14:19
wazdawcmon, you really expect some deep noir storyline from a family movie? :D14:19
RST38hwazd: Yes.14:19
wazdRST38h: meh :)14:19
pupnik_is it offtopic day here?14:19
SpeedEvilpupnik_: stop being offtopic!14:19
RST38hpupnik: Should I whine about Modest some more instead? =)~14:20
ruskiepupnik_, well servers are being moved... nothing much else to do but be off topic ;)14:20
pupnik_i am containing myself14:20
ruskieRST38h, just write a mail switchboard app already14:20
ruskie;)14:20
ruskieso we can replace it with something better as the default mail client14:20
RST38hNaah, I just ssh + pine14:20
SpeedEvilAdd  repository.microsoft.com, and apt-get dist-upgrade14:20
ruskieRST38h, not alpine or re-alpine?14:21
RST38hWell, I have no idea what version of pine it is, looks all the same14:21
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ruskieversion should be upper left14:21
ruskie  ALPINE 2.01(1266)14:21
zashpupnik_: every day is offtopic day on irc!14:21
RST38hPINE 4.6414:21
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ruskieRST38h, what I'd like is to have a build of re-alpine for the n900 and be able to hit a mail link and have it open it in compose14:23
ruskieother than that I don't really have a use for a mail client14:23
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RST38hBuilding alpine for Maemo has been done14:23
ruskieI know14:23
RST38hI guess hitting mail links is off the table though14:24
ruskiebut I mean an extras package as well :)14:24
ruskiewhy?14:24
RST38hSee no easy way to do it14:24
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ruskieas said need a mail switchboard14:24
ruskiekinda like the browser switchboard14:24
RST38heven with the switchboard...14:24
ruskiethen all that's needed is: alpine addrs>...Go directly into composer sending to given address14:24
RST38hyou click in xterm, so xterm should know what to do with it14:24
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HukkaI wish there was another kind of zoom for the browser too :/ One that actually changes the layout14:25
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RST38hHukka: There is.14:25
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HukkaRST38h: I know about reflow, but that disables the normal zoom14:25
HukkaRST38h: I'd like to have both at the same time14:25
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HukkaAdding portrait, I would get a really nice way to read news and blogs14:26
HukkaNow most pages are a bit too wide for the portrait mode14:26
HukkaAnd with reflow on, I can't get rid of the extra crud. Navigation menus and so on.14:26
ruskieRST38h, all apps iirc send the mailto event to dbus and dbus is what triggers the client14:27
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HukkaSomething like shift-ZOOM for reflowing zoom would be perfect14:27
pupnik_the only people i see wanting portrait browsing are phone-users, and americans14:27
SpeedEvilpupnik_: it is handy for reading large amounts of text14:27
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SpeedEvilpupnik_: I've read a couple of novels now - in portrait14:28
SpeedEvilfbreader++14:28
Hukkapupnik_: I like it, since in landscape the lines are a bit too long14:28
pupnik_hmm14:28
ruskieI have an enik 6" reader for reading books :)14:28
ruskieerm eink even14:28
pupnik_thanks for the correction14:28
tybolltyeah14:28
* RST38h wonders if that makes him a phone user or an american14:28
Hukkapupnik_: Mabe I'm old school, but 80 chars a line is what I'm used to14:28
tybolltI have a dedicated enook reader14:28
tybolltthat freench company14:28
ruskieI wouldn't read on the n900 screen even if I got offerd money for it14:28
tybolltbokeen14:28
RST38hBecause YES, I WANT portrait mode in the browser and the book reader14:28
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HukkaRST38h: Amen14:29
ruskietybollt, Jinke Hanlin V314:29
RST38hruskie: It is ok really14:29
ruskieand I might get the A9 serious when they get it14:29
tybolltruskie: ?14:29
ruskietybollt, that's the eink reader I have :)14:29
SpeedEvilHukka: 80 chars a line works well if you are close to a static display.14:29
Hukkaruskie: I don't want another device in my pockets for travelling14:29
RST38hruskie: Not exactly like reading a normal book but ok14:29
pupnik_websites dont really want to serve you text, their game is to lure with text and serve ads14:29
SpeedEvilHukka: Doesn't work so well if you're further from a moving display.14:29
HukkaSpeedEvil: Well, I'm not quite sure what would be nicest on N900, but something less than what I get on N900 on the levels I zoom to14:30
ruskieRST38h, well I can't stand anything else other than paper like view14:30
ruskieRST38h, and eink is decent for that14:30
ruskieHukka, I prefer my eyes14:30
tybolltruskie: Ah, I have the cybook14:30
Hukkaruskie: They need some exercise :)14:30
Hukkaruskie: You do walk the stairs too, instead of using the elevator, right :?14:31
ruskieHukka, yes... they do... and rest as well :) a backlit screen doesnt do14:31
tybollt hukka: GOD no. :)14:31
ruskieHukka, I don't have an elevator anywhere14:31
Hukkaruskie: Oh, old school :)14:31
ruskieand I liev on the 3rd floor... most people that come to visit that are a lot healtthier than me(asthma) get winded14:31
ruskieand I tend to not have much probs there14:31
tybolltI live ona first floor14:32
tybolltvery bad for my health - yes14:32
ruskieHukka, anyway a backlit display hurts my eyes... a small backlit display actually hurts more than a big one at that14:32
ruskiebut both are bad for me14:32
Hukkaruskie: Ok. I'm fine with them, fortunately14:32
SpeedEvilThe backlight frequency of the display on the n900 is too low.14:32
SpeedEvilI keep meaning to see if that's changeable.14:33
SpeedEvilTry simple-brightness-applet14:33
SpeedEvilI find it's lots more readable at low brightness14:33
ruskieHukka, and also a 3.5" screen is to small to read for me a 6" is just at the tail end of readable14:33
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pupnik_maemo backup restored all the little stuff i left in /home/user... thank you!14:34
tybolltruskie: well ebooks don't have refresh rate, that's why they are pleasant and cause less strain on your eyes14:34
ruskiecan't wait for the 9" one14:34
tghm, rss feed reader stopped working for me after the pr1.0.1 update, all the feeds were gone14:34
ruskietybollt, eink screens don't have refresh rate as well :)14:34
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mecerepos up yet?14:34
ruskietybollt, they don't consume power as well... unles you "turn" a page :)14:34
tybolltruskie: yeah this goes for all ebook resders, eink, bookeen, amazon, etc14:34
tybolltreaders14:34
ruskiemy V3 lasts for 3 weeks and then some depending on how much I read14:35
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tgand i just noticed now that the /home partition got filled up because it filled the searchentries file with <upd then few gigabytes of 0x00's14:35
ruskieand it's running openinkpot so I'm not stuck with the default firmware14:35
Hukkaruskie: For me the resolution is the chokepoint. I can always just have the small screen closer to me14:35
ruskieHukka, I already have glasses for distance14:35
ruskiedon't want to mess my eyes further14:35
ruskietime to see if my breakrepo script actually works14:36
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Stskeepsnew low on t.m.o14:40
Stskeeps"Vote for quick release of Maemo 6"14:40
HukkaErh14:41
fralslol14:41
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HukkaWell, there are also people who vote the politicians promising least amount of taxes... damn the crumbling schools14:41
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juhjokelHukka: Well most of the voters are beyond school age anyway :P14:42
wazdoh my14:42
Stskeepssomeone needs to write an article on governance of maemo14:42
Stskeeps'Hint: It's not a democracy'14:42
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wazdNokia should understand that $text$14:43
shd_nokia should document the damned network manager well14:44
Stskeepsmm?14:44
shd_or release the source that people could reverse engineer their messages ;)14:44
Corsacdoes someone know 0xFFFF status?14:44
shd_just bursting out frustration ;)14:44
Stskeepsshd_: what particular issues do you have?14:45
shd_Stskeeps: i would like to poll network manager to ask we have in wlan-infra or gprs14:46
shd_s/we have/if we are/14:46
infobotshd_ meant: Stskeeps: i would like to poll network manager to ask if we are in wlan-infra or gprs14:46
fralslibconic can tell you that, no?14:46
shd_it should be able to do that, yes..14:46
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shd_infobot <314:47
infobotI love you. <314:47
shd_infobot: me too!14:47
infobotmoi?14:47
shd_Stskeeps: is this documented somewhere?14:48
fralslibconic api docs are on maemo.org, which is moving servers >_<14:50
Stskeepsshd_: libconic would do that yeah14:52
shd_googling some more :)14:52
Stskeepsit's oss too, libconic14:52
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pupnik_ruskie: hopefully we'll get something that is daylight readable and yet fast enough to page through terminal text14:55
ruskiepupnik_, why?14:55
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pupnik_for working14:55
ruskieI have an LCD device if I want fast responses14:55
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pupnik_sucks power14:56
pupnik_best thing there is for that is still a psion 5mx14:56
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pupnik_yes, LCD, greyscale, no backlight14:58
tybolltoh14:59
tybollt<3 psion 5mx14:59
tybolltThough missus made me throw mine away a month ago :(14:59
ruskielol14:59
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juhjokeltybollt: Did it have same kind of "how high you can throw me" application as N900 has? :)15:00
tybolltthe only thing it lacked was connectivity - really... rs232 is ... suboptimal speed and connectivity wise ;)15:00
tybolltjuhjokel: >:)15:00
X-FadeAny talk moderators here?15:00
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chem|stX-Fade: yes15:01
chiku00hello15:01
X-Fadechem|st: Can you reopen http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=40496 ?15:01
chiku00which firmware I should use ?15:01
chiku00RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1.003_PR_COMBINED_003_ARM.bin15:01
chiku00or RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin15:01
X-Fadechem|st: We're not done yet.15:01
chem|stopen X-Fade what is missing? I just checked the sites...15:02
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X-Faderepositories, builder, garage parts etc etc.15:02
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rosheniahi!15:02
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chem|stX-Fade: oh the repos I did not check15:02
X-Fadechem|st: And dns can take another 6 hours for some people.15:03
rosheniadid i must in new firmware (51.1) add echo 1 > /sys/power/..... to some ?15:03
chem|stX-Fade: ok its open just check back when done15:03
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rosheniaecho 0 > /sys/power/enable_off_mode && echo 1 > /sys/power/sr_vdd1_autocomp && echo 1 > /sys/power/sr_vdd2_autocomp15:05
rosheniai must add it or not in new firmware?15:06
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NitialI wouldn't15:07
Nitialhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7633#c2115:08
povbotBug 7633: Enable SmartReflex on N900 by default15:08
rosheniawhy? that commands (as i hear on community). activate come funktions15:08
rosheniaNitial, and?15:08
Nitialseems to cause crashes15:08
rosheniahmm. strange, i enable that and all okey, but i enable echo 0 > /sys/power/enable_off_mode15:09
NitialI'm already much happier with the power management of the 51-115:10
pupnik_roshenia: what are you trying to accomplish with those settings?15:10
pupnik_https://gforge.ti.com/gf/project/omapkernel/wiki/?pagename=Power+Management15:11
threshanyone got a .deb for angry birds level pack? ;)15:11
pupnik_http://elinux.org/OMAP_Power_Management15:11
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rosheniapupnik_, i wanna get advce to fix problems with random reboots and improove PM15:11
cosmothresh: someone said it's available free with apt-get15:11
SpeedEvilroshenia: First read the PM sections of the kernel. Then read the CPU datasheet.15:11
threshi don't think it is now15:11
SpeedEvilroshenia: Then read the PMU datasheet.15:11
rosheniahmmm15:12
pupnik_and do not set cpufreq manually to a high speed "you will burn out cpu"15:12
threshi've completed all levels with 3 stars and want moooar15:12
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rosheniahmmmm15:12
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fluxI played to level 14 before finding out what happens with the little birds when you touch the screen while they're flying15:13
fluxthey should give extra score for that :)15:14
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pupnik_roshenia: have you seen 'random reboots' and checked /proc/bootreason?15:14
pekujaHukka: I had not noticed that. I pretty much skipped all the videos15:14
rosheniapupnik_, no....15:14
pupnik_i can not recreate them at all.  seems to be related to installed -devel stuff, perhaps.15:14
rosheniaecho 0 > /sys/power/enable_off_mode can heat cpu?15:14
pupnik_no, forcing cpufreq to max can15:15
Hukkapekuja: Seems quite old, which is good. But dubbed.15:15
rosheniabut i didnt change cpufreq15:15
pupnik_good!15:15
Hukkapekuja: I bought it mainly to test how Ovi store works for paid content and to see if there are any drms and so on15:15
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roshenia  SmartReflex control  can broke n900?15:17
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pekujaHukka: so did it have DRM?15:20
murraycDoes anyone have the address for returning the maemo-summit N900s. I'm not sure where I have the piece of paper.15:21
mecemurrayc, you wanna return it now?15:21
pekuja"oops, I totally forgot the address"15:21
murraycYes.15:21
pekuja"I guess I can't return it now"15:21
mecepekuja, my thoughts exactly15:21
Hukkapekuja: Doesn't seem to have, looks like plain 3gp15:22
pekujaHukka: cool15:22
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Stskeepsmurrayc: Terhi Nousu, P.O. BOX 226, FIN-00045 NOKIA GROUP15:23
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murraycStskeeps: Thanks. I wish that was somewhere online.15:24
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Stskeepsmurrayc: could be wiki-izable i guess but i guess someone editing the address on where to send it would be rather comical :P15:24
murraycHa15:24
chem|stmurrayc: do you want my privat or office address? ask quim!15:26
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SpeedEvilroshenia: PM and stability are _horribly_ complex. To meaningfully debug you need to do a _LOT_ of reading15:29
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rlinfatiHi, the nokia repositories for n800 are with problem ?15:30
rlinfatihttp://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/dists/diablo/user/binary-armel/Packages.gz15:30
mecerepos are down15:31
Hukkaare some audio codecs decoded on hw, or more precisly does decoding some codecs use less power?15:31
Hukkaon n900, I mean15:31
`0660Hukka, ye15:31
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`0660s15:31
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Hukkawhich?15:31
`0660some of them use hw15:32
ShadowJK_http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/15:32
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rlinfatibad day to reflash my n800... :(15:33
HukkaShadowJK_: what about 'lesser' codecs :?15:34
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ShadowJK_dunno, and I have no motivation to run a 2-day test to find out such things :)15:34
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ShadowJK_actually more like 2 week test since I'd have to establish a baseline for my own device first15:35
tybolltis the n8xx and N900 compatible HW wise?15:35
BriGehttp://www.lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139723800 New TORENT.15:35
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ShadowJK_tybollt, no15:35
threshtybollt: nope.15:35
ShadowJK_tybollt, The N8x0 is a generation older15:35
Hukkasure, but if there's some released info, we would know without any effort15:35
ShadowJK_What do you mean "released info"? Someone would have to test it, and I think people like their N900s a bit too much to give them up for weeks of testing :)15:36
ShadowJK_I think that's what kulve said too, that the testing takes too much time ;)15:36
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HukkaShadowJK_: having a doc that says what codecs are hw decoded15:37
ShadowJK_Frankly I think they all are15:37
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Hukkasince the usual material only says what are supported, which is different15:37
Hukkahm15:38
ShadowJK_And ffvorbis is definitely software decoded, and does as well as Nokia's mp3 decoder... so even if the nokia mp3 decoder ran on DSP, it doesn't seem to provide any advantage... and the wait states for the CPU Core looked similar for them both, too15:38
ShadowJK_I suspect only video codecs run on DSP15:38
threshis git.maemo.org abandoned?15:38
X-Fadethresh: No, it will redirect to vcs.maemo.org though.15:39
threshi was expecting to find recent busybox there :)15:39
threshseems like someone forgots to push ;P15:39
ShadowJK_Hukka, also... if you look in /lib/dsp... it looks like mostly video codecs?15:39
alteregoDid any DDP winners get their phones insured? Just wondering if it was possible.15:40
X-Fadethresh: Maybe that project went to maemo.gitorious.com?15:40
HukkaShadowJK_: ok15:40
threshX-Fade: oh, could be, thanks!15:40
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BriGehttp://www.lostworlds.lv/go.php?1139723800 Please everybody click on this site.. thats not a virus15:45
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xorAxAxplease vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733415:46
povbotBug 7334: audio disappear using other device functions(connecting-disconnecting wi-fi,hspa)15:46
X-Fadejames: Can you kill BriGe?15:46
DerSaidin+1 that15:47
Myrttihe's not the sharpest pencil in the box, coming back so soon15:47
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X-FadeJust needs a nice k-line.15:47
Myrttiyup15:48
Stskeepsit's probably all automated, though.15:48
jamesHopefully that should be the end of the problem. If it recurs, feel free to prod me or another staffer :)15:48
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pupnik_I'd still prefer N810 if the N900 keyboard weren't so superior15:48
hrw|goneandre__: I got this: "undef error - Insecure dependency in exec while running with -T switch at /usr/share/perl5/Mail/Mailer/sendmail.pm line 22.  " when tried to report bug against Translations/Polish15:48
StskeepsX-Fade: brainstorm loads instantly, good job!15:48
pupnik_or wasn't.15:48
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andre__hrw|gone, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=785415:49
povbotBug 7854: undef error - Insecure dependency in exec while running with -T switch at /usr/share/perl5/Mail/Mailer/sendmail.pm line 22.15:49
hrw|goneandre__: thx15:49
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andre__hrw|gone, I hope that feri can take a look at it soon15:49
andre__because it did not happen before moving servers15:49
andre__err, moving to new servers15:49
StskeepsX-Fade: random issue btw, it seems to me planet.maemo.org doesn't understand RSS timestamps that are anything but UTC15:50
hrw|goneandre__: thx.15:50
hrw|gonebug #8052 can be maybe interested for Polish speaking people15:50
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8052 "Dane sieci komórkowej niedostępne" sounds strange15:50
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X-FadeStskeeps: No idea.15:52
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X-FadeCan somebody test the Extras Assistant?15:52
StskeepsX-Fade: k, will poke about this issue at some other point instead15:53
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hrw|goneandre__: 7864 and 7865 are probably duplicates15:54
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hrw|goneandre__: maybe even 784315:54
hrw|goneandre__: same with 7800/780115:54
andre__hrw|gone, hmm, unsure. can you leave a comment in the reports?15:55
hrw|gonemkey15:56
StskeepsAndrewFBlack: things working OK now?15:56
AndrewFBlackStskeeps, new version hasn´t showed yet has is server move done?15:57
* hrw|gone -> off15:57
StskeepsAndrewFBlack: slowly getting there it seems15:57
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wazdtango out16:00
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siriusnovawhats wrong with the maemo.org server?16:07
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siriusnovai cant download packages16:07
siriusnovaim getting a hash mismathc16:07
siriusnovamatch16:07
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fiferboyAndrewFBlack: maemo-org 1.2-1 has the highlight issue :(16:09
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nedkohi ppl. i got my n900 two days ago! :)16:10
fiferboyAndrewFBlack: It does uninstall, though :)16:10
AndrewFBlackStskeeps, anyway to fix highlight issue when building themes new way?16:10
AndrewFBlackfiferboy, lol16:10
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StskeepsAndrewFBlack: just follow the instructions in try_it_out.sh in newest version.. the problem is that you have to make the "maemo.org theme" into "Maemo.org theme" which is sure to throw GA into a fit16:13
fiferboyStskeeps: lol!16:13
StskeepsAndrewFBlack: well, if we can trace it down, theme name and theme description should be uppercase now16:13
felipecsiriusnova: the servers are being moved AFAIK16:13
siriusnovaaha16:13
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fiferboyStskeeps: Actually, it only seems to be the GtkTheme entry in index.theme that matters.  It almost seems like it has to have _different_ capitalization from the theme name16:14
Stskeeps...16:14
felipecsiriusnova: but I think the package repos are back up16:14
siriusnovai get a hash mismatch16:14
Stskeepsfiferboy: :blink:16:14
siriusnovafor Packages.gz16:14
fiferboyStskeeps: AndrewFBlack's latest maemo-org has a captial latter in the theme name (which also mean a capital in GtkTheme)16:15
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Stskeepsfiferboy: i wonder what causes that bug :P16:16
MaemohammadAGanyone know if the 90999 number works outside the US16:17
fiferboyStskeeps: If I switch it to a lower case in index.theme (for GtkTheme only) and in gtk-2.0/gtkrc it works fine :|16:17
AndrewFBlackfiferboy, so name is right now right16:18
TriztFromWorkMaemohammadAG; you mean a shortnumber from us?16:18
AndrewFBlackanyway to have script change the lettr to lower case?16:18
fiferboyAndrewFBlack: It seems whichever way the name is is the wrong way16:18
MaemohammadAGTriztFromWork, donation for haiti16:18
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MaemohammadAGidk if it's in the US16:18
AndrewFBlackfiferboy, its uppercase but doesn't theme name have to be upper case16:19
fiferboyAndrewFBlack: It depends.  If the theme name is upper case, than the GtkTheme name needs to be lowercase16:19
TriztFromWorkMaemohammadAG; all shortnumbers are national, so if your country has a 90999 registred and it's for the haiti help, then yes, otherwise no16:19
FlandryAnyone know whether the XSetScreenSaver functions work in Fremantle?16:19
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woglindehi fiferboy16:20
fiferboyStskeeps, AndrewFBlack: Actually, the entry in index.theme doesn't matter (apparently), only the one in gtk-2.0/gtkrc16:20
fiferboyHi woglinde16:20
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Stskeepsfiferboy: is the gtkrc one visible anywhere?16:20
fiferboyStskeeps: I don't think so.  I changed gtk-theme-name from "Maemo-org" to "maemo-org" and it works - that is the only change I needed to get it to work16:21
fiferboyYou don't even have to reload the theme to get it to take effect (although you might have to restart running apps)16:22
X-FadeCool decoders-support 0.3 just got promoted on the new servers ;)16:22
X-FadeGlad to see that working.16:22
AndrewFBlackjust a heads up Juppo is havn same error with Hi tech theme or he was the other day16:22
fiferboyAndrewFBlack: Yep, I checked that one too, the same change works there16:23
redhttp://i29.tinypic.com/10gidzr.jpg16:23
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Bluewindhm just installed some apps from ovi store but the icons only work after reboot (dektop icons)16:23
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fiferboyStskeeps: But with reflect, which has a lower case theme name, I need to change gtk-theme-name to "Reflect" :/16:24
fiferboyStskeeps, AndrewFBlack: the "melody" theme from the ovi store has the same configuration - lower case theme name, but gtk-theme-name in gtkrc is "Melody"16:25
Stskeepsfiferboy: i guess we can script it in the template16:25
Stskeepssince the uppercase one is invisible16:25
fiferboyStskeeps: Yes, I think the only visible name comes from index.theme16:26
AndrewFBlackI´m just happy my theme is working again lol going to test then push to testing to get everyones phone working right again16:27
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fiferboyStskeeps: I think theme maker acts this way - if you give it an upper-case theme name it uses the lower case version for gtk-theme-name16:27
fiferboyStskeeps: But if you give it a lower case theme name you get the highlighting problem because the case matches16:28
fiferboyVery, very strange bug16:28
Stskeepsso it only needs to be uppercase if the index.theme name is lowercase..16:28
Stskeepsand reverse16:28
fiferboyStskeeps: Yep16:30
Stskeepsjust trying to understand :P16:30
fiferboyIt doesn't make any sense, but that is how it looks :)16:30
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fiferboyStskeeps: Did you write the hildon-theme-tools?16:31
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Stskeepsno, that's maemo stuff16:32
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Stskeepsmy contribution was turning variant-template into something usable by theme makers16:32
pigpen_HI, new to the chat room.  Just had an N900 dropped off but do have some experience on an N800.  I am having trouble installing some apps, keep getting broken pipe message in log.  Any help would be approeciated.16:32
* AndrewFBlack doesn´t think Stskeeps knows how big a contribution that was16:33
X-FadeAndrewFBlack: Which version of your package is the correct one?16:34
StskeepsAndrewFBlack: hey, i get something in return too :P any themes made this way will work for mer too16:34
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AndrewFBlackX-Fade, 1.2-1 is last one I uploaded I think16:35
X-FadeAndrewFBlack: Ok, I see that on my N900.16:35
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AndrewFBlackfiferboy, if you try to delete an icon on my theme do you see X or the word con?16:36
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gandhiiso whats with this latest maemo update?16:38
woglindepr1.116:38
gandhiisays i need to use some pc software..  but none came in the box16:38
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gandhiibesides..  since when doesm debian need to be updated from a 2nd computer?16:39
FlandryWhat's the proper way to stop the screenblank? Use osso?16:40
Bluewindyou didn't isntall 1.0.1?16:40
rangeOr you have libqt4-phonon installed?16:40
rangeOr your rootfs is full?16:40
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ivan4this there any way to switch N900 display off but still see the user interface via x11vnc?16:41
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qgilHi, does http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting work for you?16:42
angasuleN810I want a hardware tab :/16:42
fralsyes16:42
qgilImean the link  :)16:42
fralsas in yes qgil, the link works here :)16:42
X-Fadeqgil: Nokia proxy/dns is laggy.16:43
qgilthanks, doesn't work for me but maybe just because I'm inside the Nokia intranet16:43
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BluewindX-Fade: your an admin?16:43
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Flandryworks fine16:44
woglindeqgil yes worked16:44
X-FadeBluewind: do a whois ;)16:45
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Bluewindah ok16:45
Bluewindmight be an idea to add wiki.new.maemo.org and redirect / of the old server to that16:45
gandhiidiskusage says i got 36 mgs16:45
gandhiifree16:45
Bluewindlater redirect wiki.new. back to wiki.16:46
X-FadeBluewind: Dns requests take a day for us, so that does not help.16:46
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tybolltheh16:46
Bluewindhm ok i'm used to instant updates :(16:46
tybolltTTL ftw!16:46
X-FadeBluewind: Yeah, me too. But not there ;)16:47
Bluewindip of the new server?16:47
woglindeah16:47
woglindenew server16:47
woglindeyeah16:47
woglindeokay16:47
redwhats libqt4-phonon16:47
woglindehehe16:47
woglindefast fast maemo.org16:47
fiferboyAndrewFBlack: con16:47
fiferboyWeird16:47
redor more likely16:47
woglindered multimedia abstraction lib16:47
redwhy its suggested to be removed for free space in order to update? :P16:48
woglindeoriginal from kde project16:48
reddoes the update reinstall it?16:48
AndrewFBlackfiferboy, yeah I´ll look at that today and maybe we can get this highlight thing fixed so I can get a new copy in testing today16:48
fiferboyAndrewFBlack: And the settings wrench is gs_icon16:48
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AndrewFBlackfiferboy, thanks16:49
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angasuleN810midori is kind of nice, why does tear get so much more headlines?16:53
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tybolltwoglinde: I say.. that is quite some speed increase16:56
X-FadeRST38h: Promotion better now?16:57
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ivan4thangasuleN810: does it still highlight all the text on the page whenever it can?17:02
ivan4thI tried midori before, but removed it due to that problem17:02
woglindetyboolt so the machine is not the bottleneck17:02
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angasuleN810hehe it doesn't have drag-scroll, yeah17:02
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angasuleN810but being able to comfortably see several pages beats microb17:03
ivan4thangasuleN810: it would be not so bad if there was a way to disable selection at least17:03
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KhertanHello everybody !17:05
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squiddumm, anyone having problems with repositories? something about gzip17:07
siriusnovayes17:07
siriusnovathe servers are being moved17:07
siriusnovaapparently17:07
squiddok, good :)17:08
squiddwas kinda scared that i broke something :D17:08
siriusnova:)17:08
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Flandryyay new servers17:09
squiddyou never know with these toys, so its better to ask :)17:09
Khertansomeone have try pygtkeditor 3.0.4 ?17:09
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ivan4thby the way, is there any way to open files above MyDocs directory in pygtkeditor?17:19
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kamui    yay!17:25
kamuiportrait web browsing!17:25
kamui1 step closer to pure 1 handed bliss :)17:26
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angasuleN810bah, I want lcd goggles + chording keyboard17:30
Bluewindhow to refresh the icons when installing an app? doesn't seem to work automatically since 1.117:31
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Bluewindhm doesn't affect every app17:35
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rlinfatiThe nokia repositories for n800/diablo are still down?17:37
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LuciusMareHI17:37
LuciusMareI am upgrading and,er...17:38
LuciusMareit seems it froze17:38
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LuciusMareit does not vibrate on touch,and the progress bar does not move17:38
Bluewindupgrade tp 1.1?17:38
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LuciusMarei guess17:38
LuciusMarei upgraded once already17:38
LuciusMareand now it told me again17:38
LuciusMareoh dear,i hope i will not have to reflash17:39
Bluewindwell that one is quite big17:39
LuciusMarewait,wat?17:39
LuciusMarepr1.1 out already?17:39
Bluewindyes17:39
LuciusMarenice17:39
ifreqLuciusMare: welcome to this century traveler17:39
ifreq:)17:39
LuciusMaremeh17:39
LuciusMarehey, we all know these "it can come any day" things17:40
lcukit was yesterday17:40
LuciusMarethink of duke nukem forever :)17:40
LuciusMareoh17:40
tybolltIIRC DNF was cancelled period though - since the motehr company went bancrupt or something :)17:40
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LuciusMarehm,i saw screenshots17:41
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VINCENT__hi all17:42
LuciusMarehi17:44
VINCENT__is anyone also having problems with the mediaplayer widget on n900. It's not starting to play after pressing play on the desktop?17:44
fnordianslipVINCENT__: i noticed that earlier17:44
mtnbkrVINCENT__: I have seen this too. Smetimes I can get it to work by starting the media player app then minimizing it17:45
LuciusMareVINCENT__: same17:45
LuciusMareso it seems to be known bug17:45
VINCENT__is this reported as a bug  cause when it plays pause does work17:45
_claesbas_How can I see who is moderator for what forum on talk.maemo.org?17:45
LuciusMarewow, new xterm icon17:46
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LuciusMareare there any major changes?17:46
LuciusMaresuch as...17:46
LuciusMareportrait mode? *pants*17:46
rangeNo, no pants.17:46
cb22_LuciusMare, for the browser only really17:46
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LuciusMare_n900haha17:46
LuciusMare_n900but browser is also enough17:47
bergieportait mode in browser is pretty nice when reading a long page17:47
LuciusMare_n900how to enable it?17:47
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bergieCtrl-Shift-o17:47
tank-man_claesbas_, just treat everyone with respect :)17:47
LuciusMare_n900and you,ghost, be quitted!17:47
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_claesbas_tank-man, yes I will.. but I would like my thread in one forum to change topic text17:47
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mtnbkrcb22_: I just updated yesterday, yet my browser does not do portrait. is there a specific on/off setting somewhere?17:48
cb22_mtnbkr, yep ctrl-shift-o17:49
cb22_and the keyboard has to be closed17:49
cb22_and you have to hold it vertically17:49
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mtnbkrcb22_: ahh OK cool works now17:50
alteregoLooking at the minimal reqs for that spring RTS engine, not likely goign to run on the N900 ^.^17:50
Bluewindhas emelfm2 yet been ported to maemo5?17:50
VINCENT__how to press ctrl + shift + o  with the keyboard closes :S17:50
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ShadowJK_spring.. is that the total annihilation clone?17:51
hrwVINCENT__: open keyboard, press, close keyboard17:51
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* pupnik_ boggles at the number of ebay sellers advertising N810 as a 'smartphone'17:53
pupnik_used ones...17:53
ifreqwtb my n770.. its smart phone too17:54
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ifreq:)17:55
inzthe upadate all is fun, when it asks for confirmation it just shows the name of one of the packages17:55
inzi dont even know which17:55
fcrozatandre__: regarding https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1553, it looks like fremantle specs you quote isn't implemented at all, therefore the bug ;)17:56
povbotBug 1553: Headphone hardware button should act as pause button17:56
fcrozat(I prefer to discuss it here than on the bug report ;)17:56
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andre__fcrozat, hmm. I think internally they simply don't know what they are doing :-P17:57
andre__probably the Specs are wrong17:57
andre__but that's nothing the user has to care about in the end17:58
fcrozatandre__: well, it looks fine to me :)17:58
fcrozatimplementation is "just" missing ;)17:58
fcrozat(even with a nokia headset)17:58
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* mtnbkr also would like earbud volume and pause/play buttons on cord to work as expected17:59
pupnik_would building mlocate be a waste of time?  i'm really in the habit of using that17:59
ShadowJK_There aren't that many cords that have those... and they generally only work with few symbian devices too :/17:59
fcrozatShadowJK_: well, nokia is selling such stuff. So you would expect they are supported on a nokia device ;)18:00
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fcrozatno matter the OS (from a customer PoV)18:00
ShadowJK_lol18:00
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ShadowJK_You know, I'm not sure any of the devices that have TVOUT support the play/pause/next/prev/volume controls :)18:01
X-Fadeit is just resistance?18:01
ShadowJK_?18:01
X-FadeDifferent value?18:01
mtnbkrShadowJK_: my N900 came with earbus and there is a mutl-switch on the cord (just like an iPhone) yet it does not work "just like an iPhone"   :)18:02
ShadowJK_When I use Nokia AD-54 controller with my Nokia E75, whenever I press a button, there's a sequence of "taps" heard in the background of the audio, a communication sequence that lasts maybe 250-500ms.. and the buttons generally have that kind of latency too :)18:02
ShadowJK_So atleast for the more complex class of buttons I'd assume it's more complex than resistance :)18:03
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ShadowJK_The single-button headsets seem to work with N8x0, but my multibutton thing does not (not even the blips/taps are heard)18:03
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clmntchhow do you manually invoke the mediaplayer metadata update process?18:10
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AndrewFBlackStskeeps, how do I fix the highlight bug right now fixed the only other bugs I know of any getting ready to build a new version18:11
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redWhen I'm sending an SMS, and if that person replies fast - the SMS receiving sound is really silent18:14
redis there any way to remove that? Always miss those :)18:14
redI get the concept of mass messaging causing annoying amounts of sound, but couldnt figure out where I could disable that since I really don't do that much18:14
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ml-N900ok18:14
ml-N900enable_off_mode reactivated18:15
ml-N900let's see how this goes18:15
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Corsacwhat's off_mode?18:15
ml-N900one of the powersave modes18:16
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redhow does it function?18:16
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villagerit turns the cpu off when the system has nothing to do18:19
thesov_n900dude xchat looks so odd on the nokia18:19
squiddvillager: is it enabled by default?18:19
zashxterm → ssh → screen → irssi → awesomeness18:19
villagersquidd: yes18:19
villagersquidd: I assume ml-N900 just had to turn it off because some units crash with it enabled, at least with the original firmware18:20
hrwhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8048  - check and vote18:20
povbotBug 8048: Multi day events are not readable in week view18:20
squiddvillager: i see18:21
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jpe__someone any idea about the white LED blinking ( every 5 sec ) on my freshly upgraded N90018:21
Corsacjpe__: on and working?18:22
MaemohammadAGjpe__, settings notificatoin light18:22
MaemohammadAGnotification*18:22
MaemohammadAGturn off 'device on'18:22
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jpe__ah ok, thanks18:22
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nedkohow to install xauth on a n900?18:27
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woglindehrw seems more an more maemo has no proper QS staff18:32
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pupnik_hrw, have you tried apt-cache search calendar?18:33
hrwwoglinde: QA? maemo? you must be kidding... it is sure that they do not have18:34
hrwpupnik_: gpe-calendar fails to import my calendars18:34
hrwpupnik_: and maemo one has useful widget on my 1st desktop18:35
woglindehrw *g*18:35
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hrwwoglinde: or other way it is. they have QA but software designers never used phones/tablets/pdas before18:36
pupnik_I think you raise many good points about the calendar, but maybe it would be preferable to work toward an open-source, non-nokia calendar18:36
pupnik_i can't be much help since i'm happy planning my day on a piece of paper18:37
woglindepupnik the xth one?18:37
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pupnik_no, toward making something like gpe do what hrw wants, since he is the #maemo specialist18:38
hrwpupnik_: I started - bug #779718:38
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7797 Bugs got lost during server move?18:38
hrwios18:38
hrwops18:38
hrwpupnik_: I started - bug #781118:38
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7811 Release source code of Calendar on open licence18:38
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pupnik_hope it gets some good discussion18:40
hrwpupnik_: I rather expect wontfix18:41
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* alterego wishes the N900 would work with a media remote18:41
hrwalterego: such as AD-54?18:41
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hrwshit.. ical from maemo5 calendar cant be imported to korganizer18:42
alteregoI dunno, like the phones I got with my N95 & N9618:42
hrwalterego: I would like to get them working too18:42
hrwbut so far I did not even checked button on provided ones18:43
pupnik_i just dont think nnokia or anyone has the ability to ship best-of-class apps for free with their devices18:43
alteregoI doubt they'll work. I don't think Nokia bothered wiring up the media port for the buttons to function.18:43
pupnik_you guys saw konttoris usb host app?18:44
pupnik_whats up with that18:44
alteregoNope18:44
hrwpupnik_: I did not18:44
alteregolink?18:44
pupnik_in extras-?18:45
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alteregoAh, well, I don't think it actually works on the N900 :P18:45
pupnik_not on n900 atm -- usbÃ-host-controlÃ18:45
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alteregoI think it's just been put into the builder, probably for Mer on N8X0?18:45
hrwyou mean usbcontrol?18:45
pupnik_well i wouldbuy a battery powered hub if i could find one18:46
pupnik_yeah18:46
redeemanhrw: what fails with korganizer?18:46
hrwredeeman: import of maemo5 calendar exported calendar18:46
pupnik_usbcontrol18:46
hrwpupnik_: it is n8x0 package just passed to builder18:46
fnordianslipoh noes.  microb doesn't support gopher :(18:46
pupnik_ok.ty18:46
X-FadeCan somebody try to upload something through the extras-assistant? It should work better now ;)18:46
redeemanhrw: what's the problem? (error message?)18:46
hrwredeeman: it opens it fine but do not display events from it18:47
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alteregofnordianslip: hah, I noticed that when I used to have an N800 ^.^18:48
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hrwredeeman: but due to #7790 it does not surprise me18:49
fnordianslipalterego: must be about 15 years since i've even thought of gopher18:49
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* hrw used gopher:// ~year ago18:49
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fnordianslipgopher://druuna.dud-t.org/0/ascii-art/ascii_pinups/pinup00.txt18:50
alteregoI like this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802518:50
povbotBug 8025: *#0000# does not display details properly in Portrait mode18:50
hrwredeeman: many things can be said about maemo5 calendar. but most of them are not polite18:50
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alteregoAnyone tried the FM transmitter with a really cheap coin sized fm radio? (cheap wireless headphones) ^.^18:52
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andre__hmm. Did changing the sound volume without unlocking the phone ever work in 42-11? I'm surprised that people state this.18:52
X-Fadeandre__: I kind of remember it did.18:53
X-Fadeandre__: But not sure.18:53
andre__crazy.18:53
clmntch'tracker-process -f' if you want to rebuild your media metadata18:53
X-FadeNo.18:53
andre__I think it never worked for me.18:53
clmntcherr18:53
clmntchtracker-process -r18:53
X-FadeMakes sense .18:53
andre__Hmm. I'll wait for my g/f who still runs 41-10 on her N900 :-P18:54
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Targetcan you guys control media player from widget if the app is not running in the background?18:56
Targetdoesn't work on my n900 :x18:56
alteregoOoo, I like this bug too ^.^: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802118:56
povbotBug 8021: Vibration on Alarm signal makes slow waking up impossible18:56
villagerTarget: didn't work for me on the original firmware, but seems to work in pr1.118:57
alteregoPoor guy ^.^18:57
MaemohammadAGLOL18:57
alteregoI usually want to wake up as quick as possible :D18:57
Targetvillager: yeah, worked once after firmware update but not anymore now18:57
Targetalready tried rebooting to no avail18:57
nedkohow to install xauth on a n900?18:59
mtdandre__: for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6703 , is the source anywhere by any chance?19:00
povbotBug 6703: MfE calendar sync causes dummy email sync account to appear19:00
villagerstill works for me it seems... closing media player stops the music, but pressing play on widget starts it again fine19:00
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andre__mtd, uh, I don't know19:00
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Targethmm might try reuploading my music or something19:01
andre__mtd, Stskeeps might know :)19:01
alteregoAnyone know what codes the N900 responds too? I'm guessing definitely *#06# and *#0000#19:01
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mtdStskeeps: do you happen to know where the source for the component with the bug/undesired behaviour in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6703 is?19:03
povbotBug 6703: MfE calendar sync causes dummy email sync account to appear19:03
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penguinbaitWhy is it that the same people who say I am being too quiet as a council member, are completely against what comes out of my mouth when it opens?19:04
alteregopenguinbait: :)19:06
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odin_anyone got access to their ARMEL scratchbox ?    does your symlink "/usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 -> libtermcap.so" exist ?19:13
odin_infact does: "ls -l /usr/lib/libncurses.so /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 /usr/lib/libtermcap.so" show a loop for you ?19:14
odin_oh no one points to /lib19:15
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rkc1is maemo.org down?19:31
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woglinderkc1 nope19:31
woglinderkc1 your dns didnt yet hit the ip changes19:32
woglindeboaah this suckz http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/59943.html19:33
woglindepoor kathy19:33
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fralsshe doesnt have a locked one thou19:34
woglindefrals hehe okay19:35
SpeedEvilWhat does a white notifier LED flash mean?19:37
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tuxerSpeedEvil: your device is on. You can disable it from settings19:41
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SpeedEvilerr - what?19:41
SpeedEvilit blinks occasionally to tell you it's on?19:41
LuciusMare_n900SpeedEvil: exactly19:42
MaemohammadAGbreathing light19:42
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odin_I think the device should flash white fast during bootup and slow down as it gets almost finished, just to display something is going on19:42
MaemohammadAGor just allow a disabled splash screen19:42
pupnik_maybe flash if it is not being used, but some process is chewing up battery...19:42
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SpeedEvilWacky19:43
LuciusMarepupnik_: nice idea,but how do you know what is eating battery?19:43
odin_well its not using a tick-less kernel is it?  so its always chewing battery19:43
tuxerSpeedEvil: for someone that could be helpful to know whether device is on or off19:43
MaemohammadAGanyone using nokia messaging?19:43
SpeedEviltuxer: but it's not on often enough that yioyu can see it without staring at it19:43
LuciusMarealso,some processes like tracker run while not being used on purpose19:43
pupnik_odin_: we have battery charge left in /proc.  A process could check every minute, and flash if delta-charge > xx percent19:44
pupnik_no need to run powertop or top19:44
tuxerSpeedEvil: yeah... well I'm not gonna use it :D19:44
tuxerDon't really get the point of it, just annoying flashling light :D19:45
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pupnik_perhaps user left a browser window open whose webpage chews up cpu with javascript or flash19:45
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pupnik_i see a lot of complaints from confused users who don't understand why their battery is not lasting very long...19:46
pupnik_actually it would make more sense to test every 15 minutes or so19:46
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* LuciusMare praises nokia for the pr1.1 portrait browser mode19:48
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woglindeLuciusMare he19:48
woglindethis is only easter-egg19:48
* tybollt shrug portrait mode shmortrait mode19:49
LuciusMareuh,huh19:49
tybolltit is non essential, really19:49
LuciusMarewhat a nice feature,as an easter egg?19:49
tybolltsilly iphonery19:49
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LuciusMarei find it myself useful19:50
tybolltlet me guess? you use it in the car?19:50
mj__does any one know how to get to maemo.org? is there an ip address19:50
mj__um... dont worry19:50
tybolltmj: 80.248.164.25019:51
tybolltolrite19:51
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LuciusMaretybollt: no,but... for example,writing down some informations from a page19:51
tybollt?19:51
LuciusMareor,i find it more natural to hold the phone like this19:52
LuciusMaretybollt: it is actually hard to hold it in the landscape and scroll with one hand19:52
tybolltyou also find it usefull to have your webpage ... cut in half? :)19:52
tybolltnevermind though, I won't argue w/ you :)19:53
LuciusMarenot really19:53
LuciusMare:)19:53
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LuciusMareand,what is the changelog for pr1.1?19:55
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SpeedEvil~upgrade19:55
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infoboti heard upgrade is to upload the files and run the /setup/upgrade.php script from 0.9.8 and higher19:55
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SpeedEvilumm - no19:55
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LuciusMarehaha19:56
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tybollthttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.119:57
PhantasmAnyone know how to make x terminal open in full screen mode (that is, top bar hidden as the button does manually)?19:58
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: (white 'breathing' light) you easily should be able to change the pattern by defining a different program for the 5521 engine somewhere in MCE config or wherever it's defined20:00
xorAxAxruskie: have you found out why images contains many from /usr?20:01
xorAxAxruskie: that might be related to the repartitioning20:01
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mj__does any one know if there is a project for a calorie counter on n900?20:05
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inzive thought of starting one but didnt get into it20:07
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simulais there a pedometer app?20:07
mj__inz: ok, any reason you stopped?20:08
Myrttihe hasn't done my knitting pattern app yet20:08
Myrttithat's why ;-)20:08
Myrtti*snerk*20:08
* Myrtti hides20:08
SpeedEvilmj__: weightjinni20:08
SpeedEvilmj__: sorta20:09
SpeedEvilmj__: or the loads of web 0.2 websites20:09
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simulaheh20:09
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mj__speedevil: sorry slow on the uptake.. web 0.2 websites?20:10
SpeedEvilmj__: Using livestrong.com/myplate It sucks somewhat. In other ways t's great.20:10
inzmj, got bored of counting calories :) (well i wasnt even counting calories but carbs)20:10
mj__inz: that was what i wanted the app to do20:10
mj__not just calories, but carbs and sugar20:10
SpeedEvilTha above website does that - but it has problems with data quality. Yu need to doublecheck the items you enter are in fact correct.20:11
inzmj, ive got a php/mysql app i planned to port to gtk/sqlite20:11
inzmj, the biggest problem is that the data im using is in finnish20:11
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mj__inz: i know php/mysql but no idea about gtk/sqlite20:11
inzmj. and dont really know if it is distributable20:12
embeddedHi all guys20:12
Triztinz; Whats the problem with Finnish?20:12
inztrizt, i dont have any, someone else might20:12
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SpeedEvilhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=433385 - and my comments on my ideal weight-tracker program at the bottom20:13
embeddedWho knows how to download a package from a repository on Maemo5 to a different folder ?20:13
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embeddedno-one?20:14
embedded:O20:15
SpeedEvilwget20:15
angasuleN810use apt-get ?20:16
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mtdbarisione: am I correct in reading https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5549#c4 to say that the "code for metacontacts" part of the stack is free software?  If so, what's it called?20:16
povbotBug 5549: libosso-abook should be open source20:16
angasuleN810I normally just download the source package20:17
embeddedbut I don't know the package name and location, I know only the repo parameters20:17
barisionemtd: it's not20:17
barisione:(20:17
angasuleN810a repo has many packages...20:17
barisionemtd: «libosso-abook contains the code to make using EDS non-painful, the code for20:18
barisionemetacontacts (the integration between the IM contacts and the local ones) and20:18
barisionethe widgets.»20:18
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SpeedEvilembedded: why?20:18
mtdbarisione: ok, thanks for confirmation.  is that bit of code libosso-abook, though?  So I can access it from python via ctypes?20:18
barisioneyes20:18
mtdbarisione: thanks.  Would love to use it, so thanks for the code anyway :)20:19
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embeddedI see their name through HAM but their size is big and if I try to install some of them I receive an enough space message (or something like that)20:19
barisionemtd: btw, read http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_Address_Book_API20:19
mtdbarisione: (I'm trying to keep track of a list of online contacts from python, btw.  I got annoyed traversing all the telepathy objects and was hoping to use some abook code)20:19
mtdbarisione: cool, thanks20:19
barisionemtd: and the api reference is at http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libosso-abook/20:20
mtdbarisione: thanks for the pointers20:20
barisionemtd: it's easy if you use libosso-abook and you care about metacontacts20:20
mtdbarisione: just my case...thanks.20:20
barisioneit could be slightly harder I think if you want to watch for single contacts20:20
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barisionemtd: np20:21
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mtdbarisione: if there's anything a user like me could say to help the open-sourcing of that component, let me know :)20:21
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: see PatternDeviceOn=254;0;0;rgb;9d... in /etc/mce/mce.ini (ref: http://wiki.maemo.org/LED_patterns )20:21
embeddedany suggestion ?20:22
barisionemtd: not much, you can vote for it if you didn't do yet20:22
mtdbarisione: yup, already done.20:22
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barisionethanks then :)20:22
mtdbarisione: thank you :)20:22
embedded???20:24
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embeddedIs it possible that nobody can help me???20:29
RST38hE900 shot: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/jan09fakekindledxjan09.jpg20:29
lcukembedded, help with what?20:30
lcukuse apt download only option?20:30
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RST38hembedded: yes, it is possible that nobody can help you20:30
RST38hembdedd: what "huge" package are you trying to download?20:31
lcukembedded, open source, open channel i dont answer questions via pm20:31
LuciusMarehaha20:31
MaemohammadAGlemme guess, openarena?20:31
odin_is the beagleboard compatible enough with N900 hardward arch to consider getting ?  (or the purpose of kernel development)20:32
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tripzeroodin_: should be pretty close20:34
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tripzeroIIRC, they both use the omap320:35
embeddedRST38h : eh it's a big package to partecipate to a beta testing program for a new sw20:35
tripzerohi wirelessdreamer20:35
wirelessdreamertripzero: sup20:35
wirelessdreamerwe win you over yet? ;)20:35
embeddedlcuk: Can you reply in prv?20:35
LuciusMareoh,and pr11 does not bring any change in front camera driver...20:36
tripzerowirelessdreamer, I was in radioshack yesterday looking for the n900... they didn't have one :(20:36
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wirelessdreameranyone here install the firmware update on their n900 yet? I'm having a hard time location the linux binary for my desktop20:37
* ShadowJK_ updated through OTA20:38
Triztwirelessdreamer; did OTA20:38
wirelessdreamerI just tried an ota update, and its telling me to plug it in for an update20:38
lcukembedded, if you know the server details you can browse the repository?20:39
lcuki fail to see your problem20:39
Triztwirelessdreamer; plug it in for power, so you won't run out in the middle of the install20:39
wirelessdreamerTrinzt: already plugged in20:39
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ShadowJK_wirelessdreamer, need 45M free on /20:39
ShadowJK_and *qt*phonon* conflicts if some app you installed dragged in that :/20:40
embeddedlcuk: no I can't browse repo, I think that they use some .htaccess policies to prevent it20:40
wirelessdreameronly 15 megs free on /20:40
wirelessdreamerI haven't been able to find what packages are using the space to pull them either20:40
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redeemani have 69.1MB free :P20:41
pupnik_the program icon categorizer is great-- foss f t w20:41
ShadowJK_Disable extras-devel and extras-testing catalogues, that frees up maybe 10 megs.. then you just have to uninstall some stuff..20:41
ShadowJK_unfortunately it doesn't tell you beforehand how much space will be gained by uninstalling something... or it does tell you, but it's mostly wrong20:41
embeddedlcuk: can you answer in private chat?20:42
lcukembedded, then make some space :) not a lot anyone else can tell you20:42
lcuki already said, no20:42
embeddedah ok20:42
embeddedI'm sorry20:42
Trizt5%M free on mine20:43
embeddedIs not possible to specify a destination folder to the apt-get command different from the default one?20:43
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DocScrutinizer51embedded: you are NOT supposed to use apt-get20:43
DocScrutinizer51use Hildon *pp'anager!20:44
DocScrutinizer51AppManager even20:44
villagerembedded: why would you, apt-get is trying to install the package, and there's only one place to install a package: on your system20:44
wirelessdreamerShadowJK_: I'm up to 30 megs free, out of ideas how I can find an app to pull thats using space on /20:44
ShadowJK_reboot and see if it improves20:45
villagerembedded: for downloading without installing, you can't use apt-get... though you can get apt-get to give you the url with --print-uri I think20:45
villager--print-uris20:45
DocScrutinizer51oops sorry I messed embedded with wirelessdreamer20:45
embeddedI can't install the package of 260MB using the default HAM folder20:46
TriztShadowJK_; is it possible to grow the rootfs? I could have lived with a smaller MyDocs20:46
embeddedI though there was an option to download and install it through the terminal to a different folder20:47
fluxembedded, using apt will require manual intervention if you have 70M free space, _even if_ apt archives are not downloaded to the root filesystem20:47
ShadowJK_Trizt, it's a separate chip20:47
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fluxmaybe 90M could be enough?20:47
ShadowJK_The N900 has one 256M OneNAND type chip, and one 32G emmc type chip20:47
SpeedEvilflux: no, itr doesn't20:48
TriztShadowJK_; okey, then it's a bit more difficult to make it larger20:48
SpeedEvilI installed the 90M package with 40M of free space.20:48
SpeedEvilDoing nothing other than simply allowing the install20:48
fluxspeedevil, you mean with apt or with HAM?20:48
SpeedEvilHAM20:48
fluxspeedevil, yes, that should work20:48
SpeedEviloh - apt20:48
SpeedEvilmisread20:48
embeddedflux: I haven't problem to intervene by hand through the shell, but I would like how to do it20:49
LuciusMarewhat is HAM?20:49
fluxembedded, also be warned that the automatic recovery mechanisms wont work if you do it from the command line20:49
MaemohammadAGhildon app mgr20:49
villageror perhaps apt can download without installing... --download-only20:49
odin_maybe the operating system package manager should shutdown everything, leaving only a framebuffer console up and the OS update is done (so that all those DSOs that can't be freed during the install get released) this means the rootfs space requirements can drop by a lot?  90Mb update with only 10Mb free20:49
LuciusMareaw,great.20:49
embeddedflux: ok, no prob, but say me how to do that :)20:50
fluxembedded, I used apt-get, though, because the upgrade didn't appear in the HAM for some reason. but I took some precautions, like turn the devic eoff.20:50
fluxembedded, in other words, you are prepared to flash the device if it fails?20:50
embeddedflux, sure20:50
LuciusMaremediaplayer>audio (678 songs)>nothing to show20:50
LuciusMare:(20:50
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MaemohammadAGi had to move /var/cache/apt/archives20:51
odin_maybe a runlevel 1, 2 and 3 is needed, I see that the normal mode is runlevel 320:51
embeddedflux, I just did it some times :)20:51
odin_opps runlevel 2 is normal mode20:51
fluxembedded, well, just apt-get upgrade. I moved my apt files off the root before that. when the disk space runs out (or preferably before that!) interrupt the process, run dpkg --configure -a, and do apt-get upgrade again. eventually it'll go through, hopefully :)20:51
Triztisn't level 2 multiusre, no networking20:51
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fluxembedded, btw, it took 3 hours for me to upgrade. might be because I have also dpkg files off the root filesystem.20:52
fluxalso, I downloaded the files beforehand (apt-get upgrade -d) and switched the device to offline mode before starting that20:52
fluxapparently it's a good idea to turn off browserd as well, but I don't know how to do that :-o20:53
Triztkill -9 <pid>20:53
Trizt:P20:53
embeddedmhh...I thinking back on it20:53
fluxyes, and the watchdog reboots your phone, not good..20:53
embeddeduff20:54
thomazhow do i add music to mediaplayer?20:54
odin_I think a runlevel 1 (and bootuped rescue mode, i.e. boot into runlevel 1 by holding a key down during power on) is useful20:55
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wirelessdreamerShadowJK_: I have 54M free on / now and its still telling me I have to run the nokia updater program20:56
SpeedEvilthomaz: drag and drop some music onto the 'MyDocs' partition when it's plugged into a PC - and it should be auto-indexed20:56
wirelessdreamerpackage is Maemo 5 2.2009.51-1.00220:56
mrmgI have no Ovi store still20:56
mrmgam on 2009.51 though20:57
Triztmrmg; you don't miss anything20:57
mrmghaha20:57
mrmgMy life is incomplete20:57
thomazSpeedEvil, yeah, it was working this way before, but now the index is not catching my music20:57
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TriztI have to say ovi suxx, slow and many parts works only with a virus installed20:58
ShadowJK_wirelessdreamer, then something installed probably conflicts :(20:58
embeddedmrmg: maybe have you installed the Maemo app to hide the browser identity?20:58
MaemohammadAGvirus?20:58
MaemohammadAG...20:58
ShadowJK_Since updating through NSU or flasher will lose all your apps anyway, I'd just uninstall more... heh20:58
wacklinstalled 51-1 yesterday. now the alarm clock isn't working anymore (or it's working too good, because i can't disable it when ringing ;)20:58
X-Fadejoppu: Can you upload your theme again? I think I fixed the issue now.20:58
hrwTrizt: who needs ovi when you can install apps from it by apt-get20:58
TriztMaemohammadAG; from that corrupt code stealing company from usa20:59
MaemohammadAGi'm not following20:59
hrwTrizt: watched too much Antitrust movie?20:59
hrwMaemohammadAG: watch Antitrust movie20:59
hrwMaemohammadAG: worth it20:59
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Trizthrw; I did try to download some songs from Ovi Music Store for my GF as I had given her an n86, damn it was difficult and didn't work20:59
* MaemohammadAG checks the imdb21:00
wirelessdreameranyone know if the firmware update fixes a2dp stuttering?21:00
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Trizthrw; No, read news on different sites, using GPL code and change the license (usb), using other companies software and claiming it to be theirs (chinese writing)21:01
hrwTrizt: welcome in a real world21:02
Jaffaev'ning21:02
Triztwirelessdreamer; don't think it did, nad I have to say the wlan didn't work too well yesterday evening for me, it said it connected but you couldn't do anything (unless reboot)21:03
pronto*rocks while a 332 MB .bz2 extracts on my n900*21:03
hrwhi Jaffa21:03
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Jaffapupnik_: glad you like catorise btw :)21:04
* LuciusMare rocks with pronto while packing the extracted files back21:05
hrwJaffa: what are plans for 0.0.3?21:05
prontolol21:05
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LuciusMareJaffa: catorise?21:05
prontoi'm installing that eaasy debain ting21:05
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kevloralhi all21:06
pupnik_thank you Jaffa it's the shiznit!  Now add the 5 most clicked-on app icons to front page.21:07
pupnik_:P21:07
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pupnik_I have no idea how that could be reasonably done though21:07
Jaffahrw: Using Config::Tiny, i18n from HAM, chaged some default categories (Ovi Store in Ovi, Phone & Conversations in Network) and hopefully try and investigate why triggers aren't working for some: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802621:08
povbotBug 8026: Catorise does not add icon in the category when a new application is installed21:08
pupnik_I'll add mine manually21:08
pupnik_aha ty21:08
Jaffapupnik_: I'll have a think21:08
LuciusMarewait,the main menu can be edited,or what?21:09
LuciusMarewhat is catorise?21:09
* LuciusMare is lost.21:09
kevloralLuciusMare: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2010/01/12/catorise_auto_organise_n900_applications21:10
Jaffakevloral: ta21:10
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JaffaLuciusMare: The apps menu uses the Freedesktop.org Desktop Menu spec21:11
LuciusMarewow21:11
LuciusMarenice, is it in the repos already?21:11
LuciusMareer21:11
LuciusMarenvm21:11
* LuciusMare bookmarks21:12
JaffaLuciusMare: -devel. I hope to get it into -testing by the end of the weekend21:12
odin_should HAM have a user/cmdline group ?  or is the debian package Section following a debian convention ?  I'm thinking I have a number of pure-command-line packages to release and sticking them in system or utilities really could mess up all the nice GUI stuff21:13
LuciusMarenice,nice21:13
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hrwodin_: do not use user/ section so people will install by apt-get?21:15
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odin_erm... I want the same visibility as everything else, i.e. via HAM (or apt-get)21:15
MaemohammadAGNOOO It is currently  in Extras-devel. This should, therefore, only be tested by people who are willing to suffer potential data loss, hair loss and the eating of babies.21:16
Jaffaodin_: There's threads about this on maemo_community. If it's something big and hefty (like SSH) which people may want to install through HAM, you can use user/network or whatever's most appropriate and there's an icon/badge you can use along with a standard sentence in the description21:16
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Jaffaodin_: However, if it's lots of little tools, the user can install them using apt-get21:17
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Jaffaodin_: The final option is to give a .desktop launcher for them.21:17
odin_Jaffa, not sure its "big and hefty" but it will be a collection of maybe 30 packages (its looking to be that kind of size)21:17
X-FadeIs there anybody who has still errors when updating in HAM?21:17
* X-Fade hears everybody click on the update button in HAM ;)21:18
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odin_Jaffa, no I don't intend on providing any desktop launcher support these are 100% command line tools, but do want same access, ease-of-install and visibility as everything else in HAM gets21:18
acab|book_hi! why i in call log list i cannot call to skype?21:18
Jaffaodin_: If they're related, is a single big package an option?21:19
acab|book_i mean in old firmwares i can call directly and i can call via skype21:19
odin_Jaffa, hmm.. yes I will have 1 agregate package called "busyboxless", which will contain about half (around 15) packages it depends on (and sucks in)21:19
Jaffaodin_: but, as I said, you can reuse a standard icon to let the user know what they'll be getting (see maemo-community archives)21:20
MaemohammadAGdesktop didn't get restarted well21:20
MaemohammadAGafter installing catorise21:20
MaemohammadAGhow do i redo it?21:20
Jaffaacab|book_: Have you got Skype account set up and logged in?21:20
odin_Jaffa, does the icon have a name/label that you can recall ?  I can search for ?21:20
JaffaMaemohammadAG: define "well"?21:20
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MaemohammadAG'image' stuck on the right21:21
Jaffaodin_: it's been discussed in the last 2 months21:21
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acab|book_Jaffa, yes21:21
JaffaMaemohammadAG: sorry, I don't understand21:21
MaemohammadAGso i can't access the X button (or the userlist in xchat)21:21
MaemohammadAGerr21:21
odin_even after update "tracker-status" still crashes for me.. and Media Player indicates I have no content on my handset (which I do)21:22
MaemohammadAGidk if a screenshot would get this but, just a sec21:22
acab|book_from contacts i can call via gsm and via skype. but from call list, i cannot, but in old firmware i can...21:22
wazd_e63Live broadcast from the train "moscow - st. Petersburg" )21:22
odin_Jaffa, ok what is the topic being discusses exactly ?  packaging of 100% command line tools ?21:22
JaffaMaemohammadAG: it sounds like hildon-desktop has crashed, reboot may help (or my not)21:22
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MaemohammadAGor may not LOL21:23
acab|book_wazd_e63, hi21:23
konttorihrw: those calendar bugs seem interesting. Has there been any work on calendar external bugs?21:23
Jaffaodin_: I can't remember oTTOMH, but it's something like "Community command-line icon"21:23
MaemohammadAGlol the browser closed with an internal error and it got removed21:23
JaffaMaemohammadAG: indeed :(21:23
odin_Jaffa ok thanks that should help me find it21:23
konttorihrw: referring to your earlier list of https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=5294%2C5294%2C6362%2C5540%2C5954%2C6051%2C6489+21:23
yuizydo headphones work with the new fw?21:23
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odin_one another note... how can I debug "tracker" ?21:23
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odin_can someone login and run "tracker-status" and tell me if that crashes for you too ?21:24
MaemohammadAGJaffa, here's the screenshot anyways http://i45.tinypic.com/vov30w.jpg21:24
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JaffaMaemohammadAG: ta21:25
ArchanamiyaCan anyone help me with this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4076221:25
rangeMagnifying glass is needed for portrait browser mode.21:25
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pupnik_ any of you good with sourcing hard-to-find documentary movies?21:26
hrwkonttori: what you mean as 'any work on calendar external bugs'?21:26
ArchanamiyaCan anyone help me with this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4076221:26
acab|book_Jaffa, did that bug or not?21:26
MaemohammadAGJaffa, i have a suggestion, not that it affects me but it might be better to put 'phone' on the main menu21:26
MaemohammadAGinstead of in categories21:26
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konttorihrw: I mean, I don't know if the maintenance team has been working on the external bugzilla bugs at all. I was just curious.21:27
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hrwah21:27
konttoriI cannot go on friday evening to visit the calendar team, so I cannot ask them.21:27
MaemohammadAGJaffa, love the menu. Thanks!21:27
konttoriit's a new team, the old one has moved to harmattan. So, I don't know if they are actually checking the external one or not. You never know with new teams .21:28
konttorias I don't see any developer comments on those bugs21:28
konttoriso, I became curious if someone has just21:29
ArchanamiyaCan anyone help me with this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4076221:29
xorAxAxJaffa: hmm, often i have the problem that new apps dont show up in their category when using catorise21:29
konttori*forgotten* that external bugzilla exists ;)21:29
X-FadeJaffa: Do you think it is possible to show what is inside a folder when you hold the icon pressed? :)21:29
konttoriArchanamiya: what are LPIA debs?21:29
xorAxAxJaffa: the ovi problem that i had such an effect for example21:29
Archanamiyakonttori, LPIA is a processor, just like i386 or amd6421:30
hrwkonttori: just open calendar source maybe then? :D21:30
yuizymy phone doesn't recognise headphones21:30
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yuizyno icon in the status applet21:30
konttoriArchanamiya: as in this: http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/low-power-on-intel-architecture-research-project/21:31
ArchanamiyaYes21:31
konttorirecompile everything is the only option21:31
Archanamiya>:(21:31
konttoriare LPIAs x86 compatible?21:32
Archanamiyaafaik21:32
konttoriif so, then you can run the x86 binaries and you don't need to recompile21:32
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konttoriso, use the x86 architecture version21:32
Archanamiyablah21:32
Archanamiyahwo21:32
Archanamiya**how21:32
konttoriwell, just use the SDK debs from the repository21:33
Archanamiya:/21:33
ArchanamiyaAlright21:33
ArchanamiyaWell anyways21:33
villagerkonttori: lpia is basically mobile i386, only ubuntu treats like a separate arch because they want to recompile their apps to use less resources on such platforms21:33
Archanamiyayeah21:33
Archanamiyaexactly21:33
ArchanamiyaIt's a pain somethines21:34
Archanamiyahehe21:34
embeddedby to all21:34
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ArchanamiyaLPIA == large pain in the ass21:34
ArchanamiyaxD21:34
xorAxAxJaffa: any idea? i could only cope with it by resetting menu21:34
villagerkonttori: lpia = low-power intel architecture21:34
acab|book_why i cant call via skype from call log page, but i can call via skype from contacts?21:34
Archanamiyavillager, LPIA = large pain in the ass xD21:34
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Archanamiyaoh well21:35
Archanamiyabye all21:35
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MaemohammadAGerr how do i kill the menu?21:40
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JaffaxorAxAx: sounds like https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8026. Vote & provide debug info, please. Also, ls -l /opt/catorise and copy & paste output of installing an app using apt-get. TIA21:40
povbotBug 8026: Catorise does not add icon in the category when a new application is installed21:40
ml-N900can anyone paste my earlier quit message?21:41
MaemohammadAG* ml-N900 has quit ("Leaving")21:42
ml-N900ty21:42
ml-N900accidental click in pocket then21:42
acab|book_why i cant call via skype from call log page, but i can call via skype from contacts?21:42
ml-N900thought my phone had rebooted21:42
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xorAxAxJaffa: will do21:43
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konttoriacab|book_:  file a bug.21:48
konttoriit's silly21:48
acab|book_konttori what?21:48
konttori"acab|book_: why i cant call via skype from call log page, but i can call via skype from contacts?"21:48
acab|book_https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=665121:48
povbotBug 6651: Call Log only displays contact name that called, not phone number21:48
acab|book_may be that fix do that?21:49
xorAxAxJaffa: cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/catorise.triggers21:49
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acab|book_hecouse was very effective21:49
LuciusMare_oy21:49
xorAxAxJaffa: cat: can't open '/var/lib/dpkg/info/catorise.triggers': No such file or directory21:49
LuciusMare_i accidentally pressed "skip pinů21:49
LuciusMare_er21:49
LuciusMare_"skip pin"21:49
LuciusMare_How do i enter it manually?21:49
cehtehit will ask later21:49
acab|book_when in call log, were i click on caller, i can do many things with that person, send sms\call\ call via skype\ send icq message21:50
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cehtehwhen you try to enable celluar, want to phone and so on21:50
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LuciusMare_thanks21:50
xorAxAxcehteh: hi you guy without phone :)21:50
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cehtehi dont really miss it :P21:50
LuciusMare_er21:50
LuciusMare_okay,where can i enable cellular  >_>21:51
cehtehgave karin a chance to play with her gps today :P21:51
LuciusMare_The opinion in setting tells me "celllular network unavailible"21:51
cehteh(an i only commented "my n900 could do better" :P)21:51
cehtehLuciusMare: there is a power menu applet you can install for enabling/disabling celluar21:52
LuciusMare_(sorry for all these spelling errors)21:52
acab|book_cehteh, yes. phone is very pure21:52
* cehteh used it a lot and dont want to miss that21:52
LuciusMare_cehteh: well, my only connection is done through...cellular. :(21:52
Arkenoithe most annoying thing in maemo browser is no relow on resize. just zoom a bit and you get ugly scrollbars. is there an enhancement request already filled?21:52
cehtehLuciusMare: hehe ok then you may have to reboot21:53
* LuciusMare_ facepalms21:53
cehtehat least i dont know21:53
cehtehtry to make a phone call21:53
LuciusMare_Anybody, please,submit it, as an enhancement21:53
threshrelow? is that even english?21:53
LuciusMare_hm21:53
cehtehiirc it asked me that time for the pin too21:53
LuciusMare_lemme try21:53
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LuciusMare_woo,win21:54
Arkenoireflow21:54
Arkenoitypo21:54
acab|book_n900 have big problem with power saving21:54
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slonopotamusacab|book_, no. power saving has big problem with n90021:55
LuciusMare_:D21:55
acab|book_yes =)21:55
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* slonopotamus doesn't want powersaving21:56
* slonopotamus wants BIG battery21:56
ml-N900powersaving makes the big battery last longer21:56
slonopotamuslike, 12h under 100% cpu load.21:56
cehtehyou cant turn it off ..21:57
cehtehthat gives incredible battery lifetime :)21:57
RST38ha windup handle...21:57
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whore|booknonono. for example my nokia live about 1 day21:57
whore|bookwith callings and other21:57
slonopotamuscehteh, that gives _standby_ time. not use time.21:57
cehtehbtw any impressions how effective the pr1.1 battery improvements are?21:57
ml-N900slonopotamus:  I wish.21:57
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slonopotamuscehteh, almost invisible :)21:58
Hukkacehteh: yah, not much21:58
HukkaI suppose it can help in some tasks21:58
LuciusMare_and when we are at battery saving,anybody got a boinc-client for n900?)21:58
HukkaI will try enabling skype again later21:59
LuciusMare_I always cry about the lost cpu cycles on overnight charging21:59
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HukkaLuciusMare_: think about all the countless office pcs...21:59
Arkenoiso, no one else thinks this web browser behavior is a problem?22:00
LuciusMare_Hukka: *rage*22:00
HukkaLuciusMare_: or how some people use radiators for heating, not old computers!22:00
whore|book#  CPU idle latencies and thresholds updated.22:00
whore|book#  CellMO power consumption reduced.22:00
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cehtehwell i had some ideas and got ok'ish battery time22:00
LuciusMare_I think it should be illegal to waste cycles like this22:00
MaemohammadAGHukka, i use my ps3 :p22:00
LuciusMare_think of the score22:00
thomazis it reasonable to change the username in the n900 from "user" to something else?22:00
cehtehhave to try that when i have a device again22:00
LuciusMare_:D22:00
whore|bookwhen i can turn off wifi?22:01
LuciusMare_thomaz: i wouldnt rather try it22:01
cehtehtweak some proc settings and so on22:01
LuciusMare_for example, MyDocs is AFAIK mounted in /home/*user*/MyDocs22:01
Hukkathomaz: I have a feeling that many apps have or will hardcode at least the home folder path...22:01
cehtehthomaz: it better try carefully adding a new user22:01
thomazmakes sense22:01
LuciusMare_yes,look above me :D22:01
cehtehbut renaming 'user' is very likely a road to desaster22:01
Knightczhello guys, I'm new here :)22:01
cehtehhardlink ~user to ~newuser ? :)22:02
MaemohammadAGMaemo should ask what you want the username to be22:02
HukkaKnightcz: uhhuh, and what about gals *glare*22:02
MaemohammadAGat startup22:02
thomazMaemohammadAG, agreed22:02
Knightczuh, no gals, my heart belongs to maemo :)22:03
cehtehi'd even like to have a real login22:03
cehtehssh_pam auth :)22:03
t_s_ook, why am i getting 404 errors on rss feeds from maemo.org, when they show up fine in firefox?!22:03
thomazi'm setting my ssh keys between my phone and server, and it would be easier to have the same username22:03
MaemohammadAGi'd like to be able to use sudo22:03
HukkaMaemohammadAG: then again, why? as long as there is no proper multiuser support22:03
MaemohammadAGinstead of the sudo su like root22:03
cehtehthomaz: that can be configured in .ssh/config22:03
cehtehuser mappings per host and so on22:04
Hukkathomaz: just use aliases22:04
thomazcehteh, yes, i know22:04
MaemohammadAGHukka, i see what you mean22:04
MaemohammadAGplus it would confuse ppl in tutorials22:04
Knightczfor the last month I've been thinking whether I should or I should not buy the n90022:04
Knightczshould I?22:04
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HukkaMaemohammadAG: people generally regard phones as quite personal anyway22:04
HukkaKnightcz: how can we know?22:05
threshKnightcz: no, don't buy it.22:05
HukkaKnightcz: do you want a phone?22:05
KnightczHukka: dunno, looking for some advice22:05
slonopotamusKnightcz, don't22:05
MaemohammadAGKnightcz, if you're not sure about it, it's not for you22:05
KnightczHukka: I've got a phone.. that's not what I'm looking for.. I really like the linux tablet idea22:06
MaemohammadAGi decided i wanted to buy the first day it was announced22:06
SpeedEvilIs there an open bug for calendar not showing day in new event picker?22:06
HukkaKnightcz: well then maybe22:06
HukkaKnightcz: some people think it is not a good phone22:06
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SpeedEvilI mean - sure the scrolly day/month/year is cute - but it doesn't help me find 'next friday'22:06
HukkaKnightcz: but my last one was 1650 :)22:06
cb22_Hukka, interestingly enough my dad thinks it is a good phone, and he is quite the typical "normal" user22:07
HukkaKnightcz: so I like it as a small pc22:07
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KnightczHukka: yes, thats great... small PC22:07
cb22_then again, i kinda did set it up so he can access his desktop through rdesktop and the like22:07
cb22_SpeedEvil, hi :) moved on from openmoko? haha22:07
SpeedEvilcb22: mostly.22:07
GeneralAntillesHighlighting on fiasco-gen. Ugh.22:07
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SpeedEvilcb22: plowed lots of hours into the project at least sort-of-helping - with no return almost.22:08
TriztKnightcz, Hukka: a small personal computer with a bit limited battery time22:08
cb22SpeedEvil, yeah, i remember... i never ended up getting one, due to my credit card not being accepted... guess it was some sort of blessing in disguise...22:08
KnightczAbout a year ago I bought a netbook and I rarely use it22:08
MaemohammadAGTrizt, it's better than my laptop, that lasts 5 minutes22:09
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MaemohammadAGif i'm lucky22:09
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* MaemohammadAG should recalibrate his battery22:09
SpeedEvilcb22: and it's not looking like GTA03 is happening - at least a a price/featurepoint comparable with n900. And given that I found n900 at half priceish due to vouchers - and could use it as an excuse to reward myself for a diet... (-14kg so far).22:09
TriztMaemohammadAG; sounds like you have a HP dvXXXX22:09
KnightczHukka: what do you use it for?22:09
SpeedEvilcb22: wasn't hard to decide.22:09
KnightczHukka: I mean n90022:09
MaemohammadAGTrizt, worse22:09
MaemohammadAGLG LT-2022:09
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KnightczTrizt: how limited battery time?22:09
TriztMaemohammadAG; is there worse than HP dv?22:10
SpeedEvilKnightcz: I've only seen 2.5 hours or so battery life worst-case.22:10
KnightczTrizt: I do charge almost every day (1st gen of iphone)22:10
MaemohammadAGTrizt, at least the dv-s have good specs22:10
SpeedEvilKnightcz: But that was downloading something big over 3g - while playing games.22:10
Hukkacb22: yah, it's phone enough for me22:10
MaemohammadAGthis one doesn't have an internal optical drive22:10
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KnightczSpeedEvil: that's good, no 3G in here :)22:10
Hukkacb22: much better sound quality than before22:10
Hukkacb22: and skype!22:11
cb22SpeedEvil, yeah, i saw that... it seems they're not making phones anymore... when i first saw the N900 i was quite overjoyes22:11
whore|bookwhat os nokia install on regular cell phones?22:11
TriztKnightcz; if I leave it over night charing, I have 3-4h of idle use, if I stop the charging when it's full, then idle use will last a couple of days or more (I always use, so I get kind of up to half day/day)22:11
KnightczSpeedEvil: although thats cool you can download something with a phone :)22:11
cb22whore|book, depends, S40, S60, or their own propritary one22:11
whore|bookon regular22:11
Hukkacb22: but some are used to this one handed smartphone concept that integrates to their company systems22:11
whore|booknot simbian22:11
Hukkajust look at all the complaints about exchange and multisim22:11
SpeedEvilKnightcz: I was blown away when I realised that the easiest way to backup my laptops hard disk (the / partition which seemed though it was going dodgy) was rsync to the phone.22:11
TriztMaemohammadAG; Mine had good specs, but it's utterly crap22:11
KnightczSpeedEvil: hah :)22:12
HukkaKnightcz: I have been tired of carrying many devices for a long time22:12
MaemohammadAGwhore|book, they use symbian only afaik22:12
cb22Hukka, in my opinion, if you want a one handed smartphone, go get the E72. if you wanna be able to do "N900$ ls /" get an n900 :)22:12
HukkaKnightcz: this is the first one that combines pda, phone and pmp22:12
MaemohammadAGS40 is what you might be referring to22:12
KnightczIs it possible to connect a bluetooth keyboard to it?22:12
Triztby the way, mouting nfs shares with the n900, that supported?22:12
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HukkaKnightcz: i also own 770 and iRiver H12022:13
odin_scratchbox has libncursesw.so.5 but N900 doesn't?  is this intended ?22:13
whore|booki think. if nokia help with programming, and impove power management, and nokia n900 can love about 2 days22:13
Hukkabut haven't used them in a while22:13
MaemohammadAGKnightcz, to the n900. yes22:13
cb22SpeedEvil, yes, it's crazy what you can do with it when you think about... all that power in such a small device... with good hardware specs, and a usable interface22:13
cb22according to one post, it can last for ~20 hours or so playing music22:14
KnightczMaemohammadAG: so, you can connect it to a TV, bluetooth keyboard and work on it?22:14
KnightczMaemohammadAG: what about BT mouse?22:14
MaemohammadAGKnightcz, well yes, idk about menus though22:14
KnightczMaemohammadAG: thats awesome22:14
SpeedEvilcb22: well - I got the neo to do that...22:15
MaemohammadAGKnightcz, mice use HID, same as keyboards, so it would work but w/o a pointer22:15
cb22Knightcz, might be intersting to do that with a debian chroot22:15
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MaemohammadAGcb22, it was tried22:15
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MaemohammadAGa slight move would move the cursor from end to end22:15
MaemohammadAGso Xorg has to be modified22:15
cb22SpeedEvil, the playing music part, or the rsyncing part?22:15
odin_is it possible to browser https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/freemantle/ssu/ somewhere?22:16
cb22MaemohammadAG, i'd imagine most of the power saving is handled by the kernel, with a daemon or 2 handling the rest?22:16
KnightczI want the phone :(22:16
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cb22i wonder if anyone has just installed debian raw on the phone22:16
SpeedEvilcb22: playing music22:16
Knightczwhen is nokia going to release a successor of the n900?22:16
SpeedEvilKnightcz: wednesday.22:17
SpeedEvilKnightcz: Plus or minus three days.22:17
cehtehwhen they sold enough n900 :)22:17
KnightczSpeedEvil: eh?22:17
whore|bookKnightcz, and what will be added in it? batteery in 2500-3000mA?22:17
cb22SpeedEvil, ah, just dont try to play videos on it... or the freerunner... that good ol' glamo...22:17
TriztKnightcz; but the n920 is supposed to without keyboard... my friends with iPhones wish they had a keyboard like the n90022:18
Knightczwhore|book: I dunno.. I just dont wanna buy something that is unsupported after 2 months..22:18
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SpeedEvilcb22: yes. Damn shame that the glamo is at best a wash generally.22:18
MaemohammadAGcb22, no idea :p22:18
whore|bookn900 in few month will be unsupported?22:18
KnightczTrizt: yes, that's something I really miss on iphone22:18
odin_https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/freemantle/ssu/mr0/dists/Release ??22:18
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X-Fadeodin_: there is no such thing.22:18
Knightczit happened to me with n8022:18
odin_I'm after the package manager descriptor, to find the URL of the ncurses package22:19
KnightczI bought it, and after few months there was n73 with different display resolution and noone were making apps for my n80 :)22:19
Knightczthat sucked22:20
cb22SpeedEvil, indeed... but now there's a DSP and dedicated graphics processor :)22:20
Dr_Cainhmm, did adblock stop working in 1.1 or is it just me?22:20
SpeedEvilcb22: undocumented22:20
SpeedEvil(for various values of un)22:20
cb22well, some people have gone and ported theora to it22:20
tybolltTrizt: n920 w/o keyboard and capacitive screen? Nokia will kill the maemo franchise that way22:21
SpeedEviltybollt: in a large way - they can't.22:21
tybolltwhy22:21
SpeedEviltybollt: n900 has proved open linux can sell phones.22:21
KnightczSpeedEvil: how open maemo really is?22:21
MaemohammadAGtybollt, N950*22:21
cb22SpeedEvil, but yes, "Unfortunately, these pieces are not publicly documented by TI, so the current Theora port (which is open source) is unable to use them"22:21
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tybolltreally? have n900 sold more than to a bunch of nerds yet? :)22:22
SpeedEviltybollt: If they try to put it back in the box, then you can get someone putting their own UI elements on mer.22:22
SpeedEviltybollt: and then selling phones based on that.22:22
tybolltI mean I ride the tube here every day. and every other guy has an iphone... I've so far to see the n900 even in store shelves :)22:22
MaemohammadAGtybollt, check out talk.maemo.org, and look at the stupid questions22:22
cb22now imagine if everyone had one :P22:22
MaemohammadAGit was sold to non nerds too :p22:23
wazd_e63Stskeeps: around?22:23
KnightczI am not nerd and I wanna buy n900 :)22:23
tybollt<-- nerd and fairly stupid ;)22:23
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whore|bookwhy i cannot view my other mobile phone via bt in browser like in 770\800\810?22:25
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SpeedEvilwhore|book: because that's as yet unimplemented.22:26
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SpeedEvilhttp://www.flickr.com/cameras/nokia/n900/ - some sort of proxy for numbers of users.22:27
Knightczam I nerd?22:27
whore|bookSpeedEvil, but why?22:27
norayrhello everyone :)22:27
Knightcznorayr: hello you22:27
norayranyone uses os2008 repo righ now?22:27
whore|booknorayr, darova22:27
bfreehi, does anyone know if there is a browser capable of handling wml available for the N900?  I thought midori might but no :-(  Trying to get into vodafone live (on an unbranded sim free device) to see if I can get their "mobile tv" working (Ireland). thanks22:27
evoumm, is there a way to sort bookmarks alphabeticaly and not by add?22:28
norayri wonder whether nokia official repo is down, or i have problems with apt-get ;)22:28
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SpeedEvilwhore|book: because it hasn't. To find the answer for that question, you have to travel to the peak of the highest mountain in finland, and yodel it.22:29
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norayrwhore|book: priv. my znakomy?22:29
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whore|bookSpeedEvil, okay. but why its was implemented in old os?22:29
whore|booknorayr, not yet22:29
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norayr:)22:29
cb22bfree, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/62 maybe as a start...22:29
SpeedEvilwhore|book: The designers do not see all things users might want as priorities.22:30
whore|bookSpeedEvil, they are jercs22:30
Dr_Cainwap, lol22:30
cb22jerks*22:30
Dr_Cainalso that won't work in microB because of lack of XUL probably22:30
whore|bookhttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/3993155950_d77b8493be.jpg wtf?22:30
cb22Dr_Cain, try install fennec then22:31
Dr_Cainwhore|book: rolling shutter on a CMOS sensor camera ;P22:31
Dr_Cainmakes that effect22:31
Dr_Caincb22: yeah it's nice.. but soo slow :/22:31
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whore|bookhmmmm, strange..22:31
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norayri am getting bzip2 error on nokia certified repo - error code (2). I have bunzip2 installed.22:31
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cb22Dr_Cain, that effect is awesome...22:32
norayranyone can check whether nokia repo is down?22:32
whore|booknorayr, do you came from?22:32
Dr_Cainhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter22:32
Dr_Cainsome more there :)22:32
norayrwhore|book: Armenia :)22:32
norayrwhore|book: and you?22:32
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whore|bookGiorgia?22:32
SpeedEvilrolling shutter isn't very awesome :(22:32
hrwanywaone brave enough to check my nearly not tested on device application?22:32
cb22hehe, when you want to make cool looking photos of moving objects, it seems to be22:32
norayrwhore|book: no, Armenia :)22:32
whore|bookDr_Cain, gooood22:32
cb22but if you want a proper shot, guess not22:32
norayrwhore|book: which device do you own?22:33
whore|booknorayr, n90022:33
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norayrwhore|book: so, it's maemo 522:33
norayrok, people, if nobody can check whether nokia repo works, then...22:33
whore|bookyes, and device very pure22:33
X-Fadenorayr: they work.22:34
norayrhmmm22:34
whore|bookX-Fade, in armenia wery pooor internet and slooooooow22:34
pupnik_the brothers' gonna work it out22:34
norayrno, actually :)22:34
norayrthen i assume it is a gpg problem22:34
odin_why is "rootfs" and "ubi0:rootfs" listed as well?  is that a startup error with incorrect editing of /etc/mtab ?  or pivor_root issue ?22:34
odin_s/pivor_root/pivot_root22:35
konttoriFunny to look at 'how big the changelog is' http://www.fonearena.com/blog/2010/01/14/omg-nokia-n900-pr1-1-firmware-changelog-is-huge.html  as the *real* amount of fixes was in four digits for pr1.122:35
norayrit all started after i did apt-get update manually, from console. so, now i wonder, whether apt-get from console behavour differ from "Application Manager" behavour?22:36
gevaertskonttori: I wouldn't say that too loudly :)22:36
X-Fadekonttori: More reason to push for moving bugzilla to public for more non critical items :)22:36
konttoriapplication framework fixes seem to have counted to over 250.22:37
konttoriI say that number only, as it's all open stack, so anybody can calculate the bugs from gits, even if the reasons of the bugs are not always shown in the changelogs22:37
konttoriof course, more often they are22:37
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bfreethanks guys, didn't realise there was no xul in microb :-/   do I have to install fennec directly from mozilla (i.e. not an apt repo, if so yuck)?22:38
gevaertswell yes, but biased reviewers are not likely to do that work...22:38
Luserapplication manager == joke , at least on my n800. click cancel and you end up with apt-worker reading a deleted file..22:39
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norayrLuser: i mean, it all started after i run apt-get update manually. Before that, i was using "app manager" and it was fine.22:40
gevaerts\☺/22:40
* gevaerts just reached his 63rd 3-star level in angry birds :)22:40
norayrLuser: and apt-get update didn't end up successfully22:40
slonopotamusextras-testing broken?22:40
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hrwLuser: h-a-m started to be usable just after maemo5-44.122:41
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redeemanham?22:41
Luseryea because apt-worker has taken the lock22:41
hrwredeeman: hildon application manager22:41
konttoriyeah, speed issues were fixed for 44-122:41
SpeedEvilHow do I search brainstorm for calendar?22:41
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norayrLuser: sec, i'll check for apt-worker in the ps output22:42
Luserhrw i have the latest firmware and its not usable..22:42
norayrLuser: thanks, this is it22:42
hrwLuser: on n800 it will never be :(22:43
norayrLuser: but wait22:43
hrwLuser: this is nokia - they do not care about not-latest models22:43
norayrLuser: no, this is not the case. i was running apt without "app manager" other time.22:43
ml-N900hmm22:44
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norayrLuser: I mean, i know about the lock, just apt-get update says:22:44
Anidelhi22:44
ml-N900maybe my bug was fixed22:44
ml-N900no reboots all day22:44
SpeedEvilIt can't be impossible to search brainstorm can it?22:44
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lcukAnidel, \o22:45
whore|bookml-N900, what bug?22:45
SpeedEvilI can see no search facility, and it seems so critically vital that no sane dev would leave it out...22:45
konttoriwe had a lot of work done together with TI on making the reboots disappear.22:45
norayrHit http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com chinook Release22:45
norayrIgn http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com ./ Release22:45
norayrGet:1 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com chinook/user Packages [14.8kB]22:45
norayr99% [1 Packages bzip2 0] [Waiting for headers]                        379B/s 0s22:45
norayrbzip2: Data integrity error when decompressing.22:45
norayrInput file = (stdin), output file = (stdout)22:45
norayrIt is possible that the compressed file(s) have become corrupted.22:45
norayrYou can use the -tvv option to test integrity of such files.22:45
norayroops22:45
ml-N900konttori:  very cool22:45
X-Fadenorayr: Still on chinook?22:45
konttorinot *all* reasons for the HW reboots were found but enough that you don't have to worry about those anymore.22:45
X-Fadenorayr: Time to update, really.22:46
norayru mean software update, yeah?22:46
X-FadeI had uptime of 12 days on pr1.122:46
konttoriI think we know one more reason that can cause reboots, but that's it. (well, except for obvious kernel panics and such)22:46
Lusernorayr i have exactly the same :)22:46
norayr:)22:46
norayrLuser: so, repo is down?22:46
ml-N900konttori:  will keep an eye out22:47
fralsnorayr: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=474703&postcount=1922:47
fralsi guess thats whats happening22:47
norayrfrals: thank, i'll check it22:47
norayrfrals: thanks*22:47
Lusernorayr let me try again..22:47
konttoriwow!22:48
konttori(about the frals comment)22:48
konttoriI really hope that's not the case anymore22:48
whore|bookkonttori greeteengs from belarus22:49
X-Fadekonttori: fds notified, they're on it.22:49
konttoriso, does that affect extras only or all akamai repos?22:49
X-Fadesdk, ssu diablo and extras.22:50
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X-FadeThey need to turn this 'feature' off per ip.22:50
X-FadeAnd those ips changed today of course.22:50
w00t_hrrm. anyone had experience with the charging light not working after update to 1.1?22:51
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ShadowJK_works for me22:51
X-Fadew00t_: lock device22:51
ShadowJK_and check settings22:52
w00t_X-Fade: *blink*?22:52
* gevaerts sometimes wonders why he hasn't had any issues with his n900 at all22:52
w00t_already did, ShadowJK_22:52
X-Fadew00t_: Or close keyboard22:52
threshgevaerts: you never turned it on, of course!22:52
w00t_gevaerts: the 'issues' I have aren't really anything that annoy me22:52
X-Fadew00t_: It only does it when idle22:52
w00t_X-Fade: it's closed, idle, and hasn't been touched in 10 minutes22:52
gevaertsthresh: ah, well spotted!22:52
w00t_it's not flashed at all during that time22:52
Anidelhi lcuk22:52
X-Fadew00t_: Hmm, then it should.22:52
fralsdoes it charge? ;-)22:52
w00t_frals: yes22:52
w00t_at least, it *says* it's charging, and it hasn't run out of battery since the update, so I'm assuming so. :-P22:53
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w00t_X-Fade: i'll try replicate on mine and report if I can reproduce it, otherwise I'll try a reflash and see if that helps22:53
xorAxAxw00t_: maybe its disabled in the settings>?22:53
w00t_xorAxAx: it's enabled22:53
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norayrfrals: Luser: actually i've got my device just couple of days ago22:53
xorAxAxmaybe your yellow LED is broken :)22:53
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norayrwhich explains why repo is chinook probably?22:54
xorAxAxnorayr: which device?22:54
norayrok, then should I change /etc/apt/sources/hi***.list?22:54
norayrn81022:54
xorAxAxan n800?22:54
xorAxAxn810 is shipped with chinook? wow22:54
tybollthrrrm22:55
norayrok, enlighten me please22:55
norayrwhy is it wrong?22:55
* tybollt just learned how to "long click" >:)22:55
Luserlovely if you open the ..packages.bz2 in a browser. nice trace error..22:55
norayri just don't know what version it has to be shipped with22:56
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xorAxAxnorayr: well, its certainly correct22:56
norayr:) nice22:57
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xorAxAxnorayr: but it would make sense to flash a newer version, see tablet-dev.nokia.com22:57
norayrthank you22:57
norayrI thought22:57
norayrthat it is possible to do with apt-get upgrade or dist-upgrade22:57
norayrsorry, but url doesn't work22:59
norayrtablet-dev.nokia.com ? are you sure?22:59
slonopotamusfresh blood :) norayr, you have a wonderful future of tons of dissapointments about maemo :)22:59
xorAxAxtablets-dev.nokia.com22:59
xorAxAxsorry22:59
xorAxAxi dont think dist-upgrade works on maemo22:59
norayrok, then I'll flash a new version, and I also want to have another alternate os22:59
norayrwhat would you suggest: Mer, Ubuntu, Gentoo?23:00
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norayrIs it the choice?23:00
SyncAhi23:00
gevaertsnorayr: netbsd23:00
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Lusernorayr debian, the underlayer is really fine, it's more what nokia added which is crap23:00
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slonopotamusnorayr, try mer first.23:01
norayrwow! slonopotamus?23:01
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norayractually i am an experienced gentoo user23:01
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norayrthat's why am I asking23:01
JaffaxorAxAx: thanks for tha, now to work out why... (well, tomorrow probably)23:02
norayrI suppose I would use windowmaker, roxterm, moc, and wireless-tools in case of gentoo23:02
slonopotamusnorayr, err... yep, i'm slonopotamus23:02
whore|bookkonttori greeteengs from belarusckjybr23:02
whore|bookslonopotamus, слоник :)23:02
slonopotamuso_O23:02
norayrso, there is also debian port?23:02
tybolltslonopotamus: :D23:02
whore|bookO_o23:02
konttoriwhore|book: thanks23:03
Lusernorayr, I have "ported" openbox if you want23:03
norayrand the choice is debian, ubuntu, gentoo by slonopotamus, and mer23:03
norayrLuser: openbox for Maemo 4?23:03
slonopotamusnorayr, there was deblet, but it's lost in time and forgotten.23:03
Lusernorayr, yes. etternal problem is the keyboard emulation for n800..23:04
konttorihow about kde?23:04
slonopotamuskonfoo, 'kde' isn't a distro.23:04
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slonopotamuserr23:04
Luserand that's why i'm tempted to buy the n90023:04
slonopotamuskonttori, kde isn't a distro.23:04
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whore|booki wanna nokia n1000  with big screen and thin brick23:06
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whore|bookand nokia must prepare coffie23:07
norayrLuser: I see23:08
norayrLuser: nice, I will try it23:08
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norayrLuser: Is it on extra repo?23:08
norayrI am downloading latest OS2008 release23:08
konttorislonopotamus: true enough23:09
konttoriLuser: n900 has surprisingly good kb. MUch better than n810s kb23:09
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xorAxAxkonttori: yep23:10
konttorieven though device is smaller23:10
xorAxAxi really hated the n810 keyboard23:10
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norayrok, am I right, that there will be no other OS2008 releases? So, if I want to add something, like keyboard layout, I cannot do it for the next release of OS2008, only for Maemo 5?23:10
Myrttinorayr: there's always Mer23:10
whore|bookwhat is mer?23:11
Myrtti~mer23:11
xorAxAxnorayr: of course you can provide stuff for older versions23:11
infobotmer is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer23:11
norayrMyrtti: uhu, so this is why I wonder23:11
whore|booktnx23:11
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whore|bookThere is currently no text in this page, you can search for this page title in other pages or edit this page.23:11
norayrwhat should I install as alternate system - Mer, Ubuntu, or Gentoo :)23:11
Lusernorayr, no, it's on my private repo. search http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php for openbox23:12
xorAxAxdoes anyone know why i cannot start x applications from a chroot?23:12
norayrOK, I suppose, Mer is very similar to Maemo, right? Is it Maemo based?23:12
norayrLuser: Thanks, today I have found this page with a lot of repos.23:12
Lusernorayr, the only thing missing is that you need to kill the whole maemo before starting openbox. and actually I don't have the script anymore..23:12
norayrLuser: I'll definitely give it a try :)23:12
Lusermaybe somebody has one23:12
LuserI'll try mer23:13
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norayrLuser: whole Maemo? I see :)23:13
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norayrOk, is Mer Maemo based? Debian based, I assume.23:13
whore|booknokia != maemo?23:13
norayrI mean, does it use Maemo source code?23:13
Lusernorayr, well, matchbox, sapwood, ..23:14
MaemohammadAGwhore|book, who would've thought :p23:14
whore|bookMaemohammadAG, but why OS2008 didnt update?23:14
norayrok, i've read about matchbox23:14
MaemohammadAGsupport for it stopped?23:14
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whore|booki think yes23:14
xorAxAxmaemo is owned by nokia, whore|book23:14
whore|bookstopped23:14
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MaemohammadAGjust a thought23:14
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Lusernorayr, it's a bit tricky to bring down matchbox and sapwood..23:15
slonopotamusnorayr, mer is the only one alternative that is based on maemo.23:15
whore|booknokia 6 is developing?23:16
whore|booksorry. maemo 623:16
norayrLuser: searching for sapwood in wikipedia23:16
slonopotamuswhore|book, looks like yes.23:16
norayrLuser: besides, nothing23:16
norayr:)23:16
MaemohammadAGmaemo 6 is in development23:16
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norayrmatchbox is a window manager23:16
norayrafaik23:16
norayr:)23:16
whore|bookbut why programmers make branches? why did not just update all23:17
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whore|bookfrom realese to relliease?23:17
whore|booki think it sill be better23:17
fiferboyDoes anyone know how to get an app to respond to change of theme?23:17
MaemohammadAGwhat would a bug with nokia messaging be filed under23:17
whore|bookand many people can update own n800 or same to maemo523:17
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norayractually yes, i think there are some marketing issues, which explains why maemo 5 doesn't work on previous hardware23:18
MaemohammadAGmaemo official applications i guess23:18
norayrwhich is why Mer as an open source initiative rules :)23:18
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whore|bookgoogle nexus one how many battery live?23:19
whore|booksame like in n900 =)&23:19
slonopotamusnorayr, that's how all binary-based distros work. they can't have smooth updates because of abi changes.23:19
penguinbaitare we having fun yet?23:19
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w00t_aren't we always23:20
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whore|bookwho use nexus one?23:21
slonopotamusnorayr, sooner or later you they need to do whole world upgrade.23:21
Luserslonopotamus, really? I'm using debian since several years and never saw any problem..23:21
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Luserpenguinbait :)23:21
SpeedEvilBinary isn't the point23:22
slonopotamusLuser, i didn't say there are any problems.23:22
penguinbaitat least someones having fun23:22
SpeedEvilYou think you can throw together random source, and have it 'just work' - in a nice manner for users?23:22
slonopotamuslupine_85, you just have libs versions fixed in ach release,23:22
SpeedEvilWith no UI bugs?23:22
lupine_85hmm?23:22
slonopotamuss/lupine_85/Luser/23:23
infobotslonopotamus meant: Luser, you just have libs versions fixed in ach release,23:23
slonopotamus*each23:23
lupine_85:p23:23
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Luserok yes, when abi changes well.. then everything has to change yes if that's what you meant with smooth.23:24
lupine_85as long as you have good QA, you can get away with anything, ABI-wise23:24
slonopotamuswhence, separate releases.23:24
bfreethere are "binary" "rolling release" distros that let you update to the latest state whenever you want.  as long as the packages dependency info (and the upgrade method) is good there's no problem23:24
* xorAxAx is running debian on his n90023:25
xorAxAxin a chroot23:25
Lusersometimes on my n800, the wifi is just lagging, until I ping from the n800 to something and then it restarts. anybody has this? I wonder if it's not my neighboor and his 801n23:25
Luserthat basically makes the device unusable23:25
slonopotamusbfree, oh, didn't know. have an example?23:25
bfreeslonopotamus: Debian sid ... or sidux ;-)23:25
MaemohammadAGon alias in bugzilla, do I enter the title of the bug?23:26
bfreeslonopotamus: I think arch also aims for the same but to be honest I don't really know about it23:26
hrwI need brave tested which likes Protracker modules23:26
hrws/tested/tester23:26
slonopotamushrw, tracker is a thing that eats all my cpu when i'm copying large file to n900?23:26
hrwslonopotamus: no, it is music from old times23:27
ShadowJK_Heh. I have Debian Stable.. some version before 3.0... on a machine... can't upgrade it, the machine doesn't have enough power :-)23:27
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lupine_85hmmm, potato23:27
lupine_85probably23:27
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hrwpotato was 2.223:28
ShadowJK_ya23:28
hrw3.0 was woody23:28
ShadowJK_something like that23:28
hrwI started from slink (2.1)23:28
ShadowJK_it actually might be woody23:28
wndgood old potato23:29
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konttorislonopotamus: yes, that's tracker23:29
Luser3 years between the 3.0 and the 3.1! :)23:29
ShadowJK_Not enough disk, not enough RAM.. and a Sheevaplug runs 10X faster, has 20 times more RAM, and uses 10 times less electricity..23:30
konttorislonopotamus: otoh, it should temporarily blacklist a fast changing file23:30
konttoriok,night all!23:30
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LuserI didnt know Mer provided a flashable image. wow.. is it safe? humm23:31
* xorAxAx tries to run wesnoth on n900 :)23:31
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* slonopotamus drinks beer and doesn't care.23:32
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SpeedEvilHmm. Calendar cannot do hourly tasks...23:34
SpeedEvilannoying.23:35
tybolltLuser: what image?23:35
SpeedEvilCan someone put up crond to extras-devel?23:35
whore|bookhow much battery live in n900?23:35
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: there is fcrond in ruskies repo23:35
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: try gpe-calendar, its better iMHO23:35
Lusertybollt, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#Flashable_Image23:35
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LuserI'll do the not-so-brave method first anyway23:36
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SpeedEvilwhore|book: from 4 days to 2.5 hours depending on what you're doing23:36
whore|bookSpeedEvil, i just use for little musik, some hour of speack and little wifi23:37
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SpeedEvilI hope to have some decent benchmarks of battery consumption in all use-cases up soon.23:40
hrwhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=475041 - my app got released to public23:40
MaemohammadAGhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=808923:41
povbotBug 8089: Clicking notifications for e-mails in folders displays an error23:41
Luserhrw, very good! you should add a screenshot in the post! People like screenshot, it's just like this :)23:43
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: heya. you hooked some hirschmans and labcables to N900 and your DVM?23:43
hrwLuser: I wrote: UI suxx23:43
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I have a partially done testing rig with USB ADC and a proper clip to attach to the battery that won't short it out at random times.23:44
SpeedEvilExplosions are bad.23:44
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DocScrutinizer51lol23:44
ShadowJK_how low can it reliably measure?23:44
DocScrutinizer51and... COOOL23:45
woglindere23:45
GeneralAntillesfrals, shoutout from Jaaksi: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2010/01/maemo-is-on-right-tracks-friday.html23:45
SpeedEvilShadowJK_: probably a few hundred microamps23:45
fralsGeneralAntilles: yes, I read that earlier, quite.. humbled :)23:46
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frals(also got solid twitter spam about new followers ;D)23:46
Shrik3is the nokia certified catalogue for diablo supposed to be broken?23:47
hrwbye23:47
Shrik3the Packages.gz my N810 is trying to load is broken, badly23:47
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woglindebye hrw23:47
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fralsShrik3: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=474703&postcount=1923:47
RevdKathyYou have a lot of people watching in twitter who don;' say much, frals23:47
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GeneralAntilleshrw|gone, oh, don't piss on the fun. :P23:48
fralsRevdKathy: Yes, I feel... followed ;)23:48
woglindekathy nice blogpost about the branding23:48
RevdKathyPeople are solidly behond you23:48
Shrik3frals: ok, thanks23:48
GeneralAntilles"New follower" emails are my only interaction with twitter since I opened an account.23:48
hrw|goneGeneralAntilles: que?23:48
GeneralAntilleshrw|gone, the Jaaksi post.23:49
hrw|gone.... him23:49
RevdKathythanks woglinde. it was the principle of branding/locking something as open as Maemo - heckd me off!23:49
GeneralAntillesRevdKathy, this is why the whole GSM voice thing has scared me since the beginning.23:49
GeneralAntillesRegional firmwares, locked devices, price hikes, lack of frequency support. . . .23:50
xorAxAxhi RevdKathy23:50
RevdKathyyeah - I saw what you said on the feneral form, GeneralAntilles23:50
RevdKathyHi xorAxAx - how's tricks?23:50
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xorAxAxRevdKathy: all fine here, how about you?23:51
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xorAxAxbtw, i got an allegedly vodafone branded n900 here which was a vanilla phone23:51
Luserit's not only confusing app manager, it's simply dead on the webserver if you look there: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/dists/diablo/user/binary-armel/Packages.bz223:51
RevdKathymildly depressed, and the storms on maemo.org haven't helped. Mind, niether has the G&T, xorAxAx. Thanks for asking23:51
xorAxAxRevdKathy: G&T?23:52
* GeneralAntilles points at laughs at the crayon: http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/15/official-htc-capacitive-stylus-for-hd2-now-shipping/23:52
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SpeedEvilxlr23:52
RevdKathyglad you got an unbranded one - I believe only the ones FROM voda are currently damaged23:52
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: complain to vosd23:52
RevdKathyG&T = gin and tonic23:52
SpeedEvilvoda23:52
GeneralAntillesHas anybody confirmed whether you can flash a Nokia firmware?23:52
woglindega new windowsmobil version is shedulded to next year23:53
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xorAxAxRevdKathy: hehe, is that your usual recipe against depression?23:53
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RevdKathywow! That stylus looks... odd23:53
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VINCENT__does anyone know the location of the default ringtones23:53
SpeedEvilVINCENT__: ME!23:53
RevdKathyxorAxAx - no, I usually settle for chocolate23:53
VINCENT__can you tell me :P23:54
SpeedEvil /usr/share/sounds23:54
woglindekathy black or white?23:54
VINCENT__ahh oke thanks there23:54
xorAxAxwhite chocolate doesnt work, woglinde23:54
evois anyone using witter by any chance?23:54
xorAxAxas a anti-depressant :)23:54
xorAxAxevo: isnt mauku better?23:54
RevdKathyYes, I have witter, evo23:54
RevdKathymauku is faster, witter is more feature-rich23:55
xorAxAxok23:55
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evoxorAxAx: I used mauku since today but I needed something more powerful23:55
RevdKathyNo - choc needs to be strong for anti-depressant qualities. Mind, gin has no anti-depressant qualities23:55
VINCENT__SpeedEvil these are the interface sounds i'm looking for the ringtones they aren't in there23:55
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RevdKathyevo - witter is clunkier - slower and lesssmooth. But you get @replies, DMs and searches23:56
RevdKathyI keep both for different moments23:56
xorAxAxRevdKathy: your gallery is in upgrading mode23:57
evomauku has a nasty bug, I switched because of that: you can't keep your tweets private23:57
RevdKathyreally? I upgraded a few days back!23:57
* lcuk waves @ kathy23:57
SpeedEvilVINCENT__: oh - I saw message sounds - the new SMS sound certainly is - so assumed the rest were there23:57
tekonivelGravity on m900 perhaps someday?23:58
SpeedEvilVINCENT__: find a name of a ringtone - then find / -name "*ringtonename*"23:58
tekonivelthat's a good twitter-client23:58
evoRevdKathy: when you highlight a tweet containing an URL there's a popup menu with "URL actions", right?23:58
whore|booktekonivel, graviti?23:58
VINCENT__i'm excualy looking where the files are stored that you copy from your pc to the device23:58
tekonivelit really should also have a desktop widget23:58
VINCENT__thanks i try that23:58
pupnik_nice rant on Vodaphone RevdKathy23:58
tekonivelwhore|book: "Gravity", a really great twitter client for s6023:58
pupnik_wish Rolling Stone or Salon.com would publish a version of it23:59
whore|bookohhhh23:59
evoRevdKathy: actually I can't navigate into it the first time I open the popup menu, but I have to close it and reopen ... it happens to you, too?23:59
tekonivelwhore|book: it is quite popular indeed23:59
tekonivelwhore|book: it23:59
whore|booki didnt use twitter23:59
tekonivelwhore|book: it's payware thought, but worth the 8€23:59
pupnik_twitter is aptly named23:59
xorAxAxsigh, the n900 is slow on emmc IO23:59
VINCENT__oke it's in /home/user/MyDocs/.sound/23:59

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