IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-01-11

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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles / Jaffa : where the heck do UPnP bugs live?00:01
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Somewhere fairly core or multimedia-frameworkey00:01
timeless_mbpi picked mafw00:02
timeless_mbpbecause i got tired of hunting00:02
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timeless_mbpsomeone needs to force konttori to use a PIN for his theme00:02
timeless_mbpthe dialog w/ the X at startup really sucks00:02
JaffaUPnP is arguably low enough level to argue it's like saying "where does this HTTP bug live?"; well, depends if it's the browser; RSS reader; MAFW; ...00:02
Chikuouch n900 rebooted lol00:02
Jef91Can I force apt-get to install a new package even though it is complaining other packages have unmet depens?00:02
* Jaffa beds00:02
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timeless_mbpJaffa: there's actually one guy who does upnp00:03
timeless_mbpand it in theory has a component00:03
timeless_mbpat least internally00:03
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, MAFW sounds reasonable to me.00:06
moo-_-has anyone been using n900 for usb tethering for linux?00:06
Jef91moo-_- I have00:07
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woglindeI have not00:07
lcukx200usb tethering?00:07
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woglindeluck sharing inet via usbnet00:08
lcukx200ahh yes00:08
lcukx200it works quite nicely from ubuntu00:08
Jef91lcukx200 Yep - the gnome nm-applet connects it right up00:08
woglindehm didnt it need masquarading support?00:08
lcukx200i wouldnt know how to set that up00:09
moo-_-lcukx200: any special needed for that or is the network-manager enough?00:09
lcukx200it just came up as an option in my net list00:09
moo-_-ah thanks Jef9100:09
lcukx200and bish bash bosh00:09
Jef91moo-_- Just select "pc mode" or what ever it is called when you plug the n900 in00:09
Jef91and NM-Applet will tell you it found a new conection00:10
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timeless_mbpwazd: so00:13
timeless_mbpone uses "MessagingBubbleSelfBackgroundColor'00:13
timeless_mbprather, that and MessagingBubbleBorderColor and BubbleSelf00:13
timeless_mbpthe other uses00:13
Caesiumhm, didn't get onto it's new hardware yet?00:13
Caesiumhaving issues loading pages from it00:13
mikhasyeah, same here00:13
wazdtimeless_mbp: body has DefaultBackgroundColor class00:13
wazdtimeless_mbp: there's no such style in css00:14
timeless_mbpwazd: um00:14
timeless_mbpthe background color works00:14
timeless_mbpit's only the bubbles that are bad00:14
wazdtimeless_mbp: background is white00:15
timeless_mbpthat's intentional00:15
timeless_mbpat least in konttori's theme00:15
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wazdtimeless_mbp: that's wrong00:15
timeless_mbphis theme is white00:16
timeless_mbpmost background bits are white00:16
Stskeepswazd: there's no .DefaultBackgroundColor {00:16
Stskeepsin your css?00:16
timeless_mbphe clearly indicated that the fact that image viewer's background was hard coded as black00:16
timeless_mbpwas a bug00:16
wazdStskeeps: in colors.css00:16
timeless_mbpwhich we saw when using his theme00:16
Stskeepswazd: didn't the file i sent you have that?00:17
Stskeeps(my colors.css)00:17
wazdStskeeps: body has this class00:17
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wazdStskeeps: but there's no css for that class00:17
timeless_mbpwazd: roughly that doesn't matter00:17
timeless_mbpthere *could* be one00:17
wazdStskeeps: same as DefaultTextColor00:17
timeless_mbpand for his theme he doesn't need one00:18
timeless_mbphis problem is the stupid bubble00:18
wazdtimeless_mbp: forgget about Kontorri's theme00:18
wazdtimeless_mbp: Marina has white background too00:18
wazdtimeless_mbp: that's wrong00:18
timeless_mbpwazd: but that's fixable00:18
wazdtimeless_mbp: Nuvo has black text in bubble?00:18
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timeless_mbpnuvo has a black background for the bubble00:19
timeless_mbpwhich is the bigger problem00:19
timeless_mbpbut only in one of two views00:19
Stskeepswazd: ok, weird, my copy of colors.css has it00:19
timeless_mbpsame problem w/ reflect00:19
wazdStskeeps: ah, stupid me00:19
wazdStskeeps: it's in the beginning :)00:19
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timeless_mbpthe problem is the blackish color00:20
DrIDKHello, I have followed this example using Madde :  . All is fine exept the last command mad dpkg-buildpackage return me this error : dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source .00:20
Stskeepswazd: that said, there's a colors.config00:20
Stskeepswhat is #181818?00:20
wazdtimeless_mbp: it obviously should have grayish background, not white00:20
wazdStskeeps: dark gray00:21
woglinde_DrIDK then you are in the wrong directory00:21
wazdStskeeps: not white for sure :P00:21
woglinde_DrIDK the dir must have a debian dir00:21
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Stskeepswazd: it may appear white on the screen though00:21
timeless_mbpwazd: compare
wazdStskeeps: no, it's very dark00:21
timeless_mbpwazd: from my perspective00:21
wazdStskeeps: almost black00:21
timeless_mbpthe bigger problem is the dark bubble00:21
timeless_mbpthe background is trivially fixed00:22
DrIDKwoglinde_: Does I need to run this command inside the debian dir ?00:22
woglinde_in the dir where the debian dir is00:22
wazdtimeless_mbp: no it's white00:22
wazdtimeless_mbp: it shouldn't be00:22
timeless_mbpwazd: what rule from which file should make it not white?00:22
timeless_mbpand why is white a big deal?00:22
timeless_mbpthe grey is a big deal00:22
timeless_mbpit's inconsistent between the two views00:23
wazdtimeless_mbp: it's wrong - that's a big deal :)00:23
timeless_mbpthe white should be trivially solvable00:23
* timeless_mbp sighs00:23
timeless_mbpyou're wasting time.00:23
timeless_mbpit's very clear that there is something applying rules00:23
wazdtimeless_mbp: how can I solve this? Enlight me :)00:23
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: it should be trivially solvable but it doesn't seem to be :P00:23
DrIDKwoglinde_: that's what I have done.. Let me show you my error :
wazdtimeless_mbp: we're trying to solve this for the whole day :)00:23
timeless_mbpStskeeps: using * { background-color: purple} doesn't work?00:23
wazdtimeless_mbp: background colort for Marina is black, but in conversations it renders as white00:24
wazdtimeless_mbp: that's the problem00:24
woglinde_DrIDK he sorry I dont understand french this much00:24
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: basically the SMS view is white bg and IM view is black bg as it should be00:24
timeless_mbpStskeeps: sorry00:24
Stskeepsas well as the text being odd00:24
woglinde_but your debian/changelog isn't well formated00:24
wazdtimeless_mbp: that's what all this buzz is about :)00:24
timeless_mbpplease use my two pictures00:25
woglinde_and some more errors00:25
timeless_mbpnot whichever stupid themes you're using00:25
timeless_mbpjust my two pictures00:25
timeless_mbpin my two pictures, both have a solid white background00:25
timeless_mbpwhich to me is entirely uninteresting00:25
timeless_mbpand one has an awful grey00:25
timeless_mbpwhich i find interesting00:25
Stskeepsright, but it's part of the problem :P00:25
timeless_mbpignore it00:25
timeless_mbpi'll deal with it.00:25
DrIDKwoglinde_: So, do you have an idea ? What file can I edit for testing?00:25
wazdok, let's see what default background Nuvo has00:26
timeless_mbpwhich i think is applied 'properly' in the conversations list00:26
wazdtimeless_mbp: is it white?00:26
wazdtimeless_mbp: no00:26
timeless_mbpit's an offwhite00:26
wazdtimeless_mbp: that's an error on conversations side00:27
timeless_mbpok. shut up]00:27
woglinde_drdik nope00:27
timeless_mbpjust look at the stupid interesting bubble00:27
timeless_mbpthe bubble is interesting00:27
timeless_mbptrust me.00:27
timeless_mbpfigure out what it's doing differently00:27
wazdtimeless_mbp: the bug is that conversations messes up with colors.css somehow :)00:27
timeless_mbpi'll deal w/ the background color for the window itself00:27
timeless_mbpi promise.00:27
timeless_mbpyou worry about the bubble00:27
timeless_mbpis that clear?00:27
wazdtimeless_mbp: it's not just background issue00:27
wazdtimeless_mbp: bubble suffers from it too :)00:27
wazdtimeless_mbp: and text color00:28
timeless_mbpi know00:28
timeless_mbpbut focus on the bubble00:28
timeless_mbpit's more interesting00:28
timeless_mbpwhere does it get *those* colors from00:28
Stskeepswazd: does the html reveal anything interesting?00:28
wazdStskeeps: well, it looks fine for me00:28
wazdStskeeps: it *should* work just fine, dunno what's the problem00:29
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timeless_mbpi added * {background-color: purple !important;}00:29
timeless_mbpto nuvo's color.ss00:29
timeless_mbpand now i have a purple background00:29
timeless_mbpit's kinda ugly, but i do.00:29
wazdtimeless_mbp: well, let's try it :)00:29
timeless_mbpand the color appears in both SMS and Chat00:29
wazdStskeeps: can you add !important tag after defaultbackground and defaulttext? ;00:30
luke-jrso what's the cheapest to buy N900?00:31
luke-jrAakashPatel just sold his for $539 <.<00:31
timeless_mbpluke-jr: usa :)00:31
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luke-jrtimeless_mbp: yeah, but what store/price00:31
wazdand btw, having single color value for both main background and input background is lame00:31
AakashPatelEBAY FTW00:31
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, usually one of newegg, Dell or Amazon00:31
timeless_mbpwazd: you don't like my purple?00:31
wazdtimeless_mbp: no, purple is just fine :)00:32
wazdtimeless_mbp: see input field bug?00:32
timeless_mbpwhich bug00:32
timeless_mbpthe fact that there's a gray and a white?00:32
wazdtimeless_mbp: well, gray background00:32
timeless_mbpi think i complained about that about an hour ago00:32
Stskeepswazd: sorry, just accidentially typed sudo reboot :P00:32
timeless_mbpStskeeps: =b00:32
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wazdStskeeps: :P00:32
wazdStskeeps: bastard :D00:32
Stskeepsseriously, it is in my fingers00:33
timeless_mbpoh we believe you did it00:33
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wazdok, timeless_mbp then00:34
timeless_mbpok what?00:34
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wazdtimeless_mbp: add important to the background00:34
timeless_mbpwhich background?00:34
wazdtimeless_mbp: .DefaultBackgroundColor {background: #181818;}00:34
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Stskeepsis rtcomm part of SDK btw?00:34
timeless_mbpwhich theme?00:34
timeless_mbpbecause i'm using nuvo00:34
wazdtimeless_mbp: no matter00:35
timeless_mbpand i have e1e1e100:35
wazdtimeless_mbp: yep00:35
DrIDKwoglinde_: I success to past the first error by refactor the changelog! It caused because my computer is french! So now I have this error : signing .dsc and .changes fails00:35
wazdtimeless_mbp: that's fine00:35
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Stskeepsawkward question, isn't it background-color?00:35
wazdtimeless_mbp: if it will fix the color then Kontorri will just add it by default into the theme maker and the world will be saved00:36
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wazdStskeeps: what?00:36
Stskeepswazd: theory.. .DefaultBackgroundColor {color: #000000;}00:36
Stskeeps<body class="DefaultBackgroundColor DefaultTextColor SystemFont" onload="MessagingWidgetsSMSConversation_init()">00:36
MaemohammadAGlooks like a weird UI to me
wazdStskeeps: that doesn't work00:37
Stskeepsis that going to be applying an actual background color?00:37
wazdStskeeps: no, but it should00:37
wazdStskeeps: that's why timeless_mbp is adding !important tag after that row right now00:37
wazdStskeeps: it should force this style at all means00:38
timeless_mbpthat doesn't seem to work00:38
* timeless_mbp ponders00:38
wazdtimeless_mbp: meh00:38
timeless_mbpdid they spell something wrong?00:38
timeless_mbpthis happens often @nokia00:38
Stskeepswazd: another theme does:00:38
timeless_mbpspelling is hard00:38
Stskeeps.DefaultBackgroundColor { background: #181818;00:38
wazdtimeless_mbp: how you did purple background then? :D00:38
Stskeepswazd: please note the difference00:38
timeless_mbp* { background-color: purple!important;}00:38
wazdStskeeps: ah, no, that doesn't matter00:38
Stskeepswazd: why?00:39
timeless_mbpoh brothre00:39
Stskeepswazd: please note color != background00:39
wazdStskeeps: theme maker's css' has no brakes00:39
timeless_mbpthe background rule doesn't have background-color:00:39
timeless_mbpit has color:00:39
Stskeepswazd: that's not what i'm talking about00:39
wazdStskeeps: ah, damn00:39
wazdStskeeps: 1.39 here, sorry :)00:39
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timeless_mbpspelling 'color' as 'background-color'00:40
timeless_mbpno need for !important00:40
timeless_mbpbut yes, oddly, css is spelling sensitive00:40
timeless_mbpwriting the wrong word will get the wrong results00:40
timeless_mbpodd that.00:40
wazd"color" is a style for the font"00:40
wazdstupid me00:40
timeless_mbpnot the background <duh>00:40
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wazdI'm soooo laaaame00:40
timeless_mbpresolved themers are stupid00:41
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wazdthat's why the font is black00:41
timeless_mbpi still have a problem w/ sms00:41
timeless_mbpcan we look at my sms problem now :)00:41
Stskeepswazd: the interesting part is that colors.css in A fremantle content is correct00:41
Stskeepswazd: which means something is making broken colors.css00:42
wazdtimeless_mbp: what color does it have in css?00:42
wazdtimeless_mbp: the bubble00:42
timeless_mbpdunno yet00:42
timeless_mbpthe bubble actually spells 'background-color' as 'background-color'00:42
timeless_mbpunlike the rest of the crap before it00:43
wazdStskeeps: something like theme makermhehehehe :)00:43
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Stskeepswazd: that's what i'm thinking00:43
timeless_mbpit's using 28282800:43
timeless_mbpand 10101000:43
wazdtimeless_mbp: maybe it just has dark color?00:43
timeless_mbpwhich i claim are really crappy colors00:43
timeless_mbpit does00:43
timeless_mbpit's just plain stupid.00:43
wazd101010 is dark00:43
timeless_mbpresolved themers are stupid00:44
timeless_mbpcan you please reprogram your fellow themers? k thx00:44
wazdtimeless_mbp: change it00:44
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i can't actually figure out where it goes wrong :)00:44
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wazdtimeless_mbp: bab6b6 for example00:44
timeless_mbpi can now read sms view00:45
timeless_mbpneeds a bit of work, and a better highlight color00:45
timeless_mbp(it's using neon green for the highlight color)00:45
* timeless_mbp has bad memories from college days00:45
timeless_mbp(there was an alcohol of some sort with this color)00:46
wazdtimeless_mbp: absynth? :)00:46
Vengefulthere is a command to clean unused dependencies within xterminal gainrooted?00:46
wazdwell, mixed with some juice00:46
timeless_mbpis that the standard color:
timeless_mbpbecause what i remember was much more neon00:47
timeless_mbpthat looks almost lime00:47
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Vengefuli think i uninstalled a program but the libqt4 are within my device00:47
wazdtimeless_mbp: yep, that's why I think it was mixed with somethiny yellow :)00:47
wazdtimeless_mbp: beer? :D00:47
timeless_mbpwazd: in sealed bottles00:47
timeless_mbpsince i was a minor running a recycling program in a dorm00:47
rlinfatiHi guys.... how i can copy text from conversation app ?00:48
timeless_mbpwhere 99% of us were minors...00:48
timeless_mbprlinfati: forward it00:48
timeless_mbprlinfati: actually no00:48
timeless_mbpdrag your finger from the left edge of the screen to the right for a bit00:48
wazdStskeeps: well, now we can rebuild the deb ;)00:48
timeless_mbpyou should see an arrow00:48
wazdStskeeps: with fixed stuff :)00:48
timeless_mbptap the arrow00:48
timeless_mbpthen drag your finger over the text you want to copy00:48
timeless_mbpthen use ctrl-c00:48
timeless_mbpthen well.... paste whereever you like00:49
rlinfatitimeless_mbp, cool00:49
timeless_mbprlinfati: that also works in the browser..00:49
timeless_mbp(since conversations is actually a browser..)00:49
Stskeepswazd: well yes, but this report this to kontorri, it's a bug in the thing that handles layout.txt00:49
Stskeepswazd: it assumes everything is { color }00:50
rlinfatitimeless_mbp, thanks!00:50
wazdStskeeps: well, I think it's better to tell it himself00:50
wazdStskeeps: and he will fix it immediately :)00:50
timeless_mbpwazd: your last sentence failed to parse00:50
timeless_mbp'tell it himself'00:50
timeless_mbpobject direction failure. fatal.00:51
wazdbot-protection :D00:51
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Stskeepswazd: yeah, but i'm off to sleep. tell him to look at colors.css in theme folder output and then at colors.css from A Fremantle and it's obvious something goes wrong00:51
wazdStskeeps: cya, thanks for the help00:52
timeless_mbpwazd: see, this wasn't so painful00:52
timeless_mbpsolved in what, 30-90mins00:52
timeless_mbpand i think we've also managed to establish that there aren't any nokia bugs here00:52
timeless_mbpoutside of the GTK ImageViewer :)00:52
timeless_mbpcss is fine, themers and theme makers are stupid :)00:53
wazdtimeless_mbp: well, since it was theme maker that caused this bug - don't see any problem in themers :)00:53
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timeless_mbpwazd: well thememaker isn't an official nokia product :)00:54
timeless_mbpbut the themers should have been able to complain to the thememaker vendor00:54
DrIDKwoglinde_: So,  I have a last error now when I run : mad  dpkg-buildpackage : It said me : GPG key unvaible. clearsign failed . Unvaible to sign .dsc et .changes00:54
wazdtimeless_mbp: nokians use some top-secret tool for themes00:54
woglinde_DrIDK thats okay00:54
timeless_mbpDrIDK: that's a warning00:54
wazdtimeless_mbp: with built in dithering and black-jack00:54
timeless_mbpwazd: i think it's call "copy paste, and random hack"00:55
timeless_mbpi haven't seen any evidence that nokia themes are better00:55
DrIDKwoglinde_: Ok! And where must be the package ?00:55
timeless_mbpin fact, i have evidence that they're worse :)00:55
woglinde_DrIDK its only important when you want your software goes to maemo repos00:55
wazdtimeless_mbp: dithering is a painful process though :(00:55
* timeless_mbp wants woglinde_ to practice English :(00:55
woglinde_timeless its hopeless00:56
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timeless_mbpwoglinde_: no, i'm very hopeful00:56
DrIDKwoglinde_: But I think, this error stop the creation of package, vecause I cannot find it :( :(00:56
timeless_mbpi hope you can practice improving your English :)00:56
timeless_mbpDrIDK: it's in the parent of the directory you're in00:56
DrIDKwoglinde_: Ah!!!!!! I m so dumb!! It's in parent dir!00:57
woglinde_timeless *g*00:57
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xorAxAxis somebody using canola2 successfully?00:58
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KamuiN900dont like it though00:59
xorAxAxbecause it doesnt work for me in the sdk00:59
xorAxAxis there any other mediaplayer for the n900?00:59
KamuiN900mediabox and the pizza player ftw00:59
Flandrythat pretty much sums up media in the SDK00:59
Flandryit doesn't work00:59
xorAxAxKamuiN900: pizza player?01:00
KamuiN900icon is a pizza01:00
KamuiN900use it to play podcasts01:00
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KamuiN900gpodder ironically broke on me though01:00
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MaemohammadAGwhat does coarse accuracy mean?01:01
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Flandryit means you're using the cell tower01:02
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Untouchab1ehi all01:02
MaemohammadAGty Flandry01:02
KamuiN900flandry are you a genius01:02
KamuiN900yes, you are01:02
Flandryif you say so01:02
KamuiN900ive been reading a lot of posts lately01:02
Untouchab1efinally going to start working on my first Maemo 5 app.. "finished" with my Android and WinMo development for now.. so just wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how to get started? Using OSX..01:03
KamuiN900welcome untouchable01:03
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KamuiN900start by getting the scratchbox setup01:03
Untouchab1eThank KamuiN90001:04
KamuiN900set up even01:04
KamuiN900either vm it, or dual boot into debian01:04
KamuiN900i dont know of a native scratchbox setup for darwin01:04
ifreqi suggest vm with ie vmware virtualbox01:04
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ifrequsing it atm01:04
Untouchab1eAh, right.. because I have to be in Linux.. Unix (OSX) doesnt cut it01:04
KamuiN900then pick a language and get to work01:04
ifreqthere is fresh images to use01:04
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ifreqUntouchab1e: virtualbox is free and there is full blown sdk/ubuntu images to use so its np :)01:05
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sacha_Hi! I generated a qthello_armel.deb for my n900.. How can I install it ? When I click on it, it  ask me what application I want to open01:21
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AakashPatelsacha_: in the terminal "dpkg -i qthello_armel.deb01:22
sacha_AakashPatel: I need to be root...01:22
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Caesiumyes, you always need to be root to isntal a package01:23
AakashPatelsacha_: install rootsh from the repos01:23
AakashPateland then 'sudo gainroot'01:23
AakashPatelthen that command01:23
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sacha_AakashPatel: ok it works! But It's not easy for lambda user. Why it doesn't lauch like all application? I generated with Madde01:25
Caesiumif it goes into a repo it'll be accessible from app manager :)01:26
AakashPatelsacha_: becuase its a package01:26
AakashPatelnot the 'app' itself01:26
AakashPatel(well, the app is inside of it)01:26
sacha_AakashPatel: Yes !  I know that! But it should be run installer by click on it in File manager01:28
shinkamuiCan someone give me a recommendation for building a gui app, GTK o QT,  or is there something else thats preferred?  I've never used either so Im gonig to be learning one o the other01:28
Caesiumsacha_: sounds like a bug report brewing to me ;)01:28
Caesiumfile manager probably just needs to know what to do with them :)01:28
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clearyshinkamui: qt is what nokia will be using in the next major maemo release (plus they own it)01:29
mikhasshinkamui, use something that starts with py* =)01:29
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sacha_AakashPatel: and other question : When I copy directly the binary , and I run it inside terminal, it return me : Permission denied.. Though I use gainRoot01:29
shinkamuicleary, I understand that, so I was learning toward QT, however, I don't want to embark down something as convoluted as the MFC for building a simple windowed app with a few widgets01:30
Caesiumdon't run the .deb, install it with dpkg01:30
shinkamuiand I hear QT is extremely ridiculous to set up a simple program01:30
Caesiumdpkg -i your.deb01:30
woglindethey all try the made example01:30
shinkamuimikhas, I don't know python, I was thnking about learning that too as I've always wanted to, but wont it still need qt or gtk extensinos to make widgets?01:30
clearyshinkamui: my experience with qt is only in with python bindings, and in my experience it was easier than pygtk01:30
clearyboth of them are pretty simple01:31
shinkamuicleary: got ya, I suppose its worth exploring qt01:31
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shinkamuicleary: how about the executino speed of python01:32
mikhasshinkamui, you dont want to learn the minimum of c++ that is needed for qt *and* qt at the same time01:32
sacha_And Last Last Last question..... How can I set up my qt app using Maemo Theme? Hildon right?01:32
Caesiumdon't know anything about that sorry :)01:32
shinkamuimikhas: Im very well versed in C++, I've never even looked at QT before.  Are you saying Im going to have problems?01:32
shinkamuiI assume its like learning any other sdk01:32
shinkamuior library01:32
mikhaswell, if you know c++ already then drop the py maybe =)01:33
shinkamuiI didn 't want totry and learn python and qt at hte same time01:33
mikhasalright, makes sense01:33
shinkamuibut I am very interested in python01:33
sacha_shinkamui: lean qt! qt Rocks!!01:33
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sacha_shinkamui: qt is cute and gtk is ugly :)01:34
shinkamuiwell, it woud appear settled, qt it is01:37
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mikhasget used to macros and non-stl containers =)01:39
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mikhasnot that you would avoid macros with gtk01:40
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Mysteriouscould someone please tell me where i can find the network device/wifi status? in ubuntu i can easily use iwconfig but how to do this with my n900?01:43
sacha_Arg!Now My qt app is running nice on N900... But It using a standard style! And it's ugly and small... How can I resolve it ?01:44
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Mysterioushey could you please tell me01:48
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redeemansacha_: run-standalone.sh01:50
sacha_redeeman: on n900 ?01:51
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sacha_redeeman: QGtkStyle cannot be use together with the GTk_Qt Engine01:52
shinkamuiQT is very intuitive01:53
shinkamuiso far...01:53
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woglindeshinkamui wait until you discover statemachine01:53
redeemansacha_: hmm01:53
sacha_redeeman: the last sentence is the return01:53
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redeemando you use the standard repo qt4 or qt4-maemo thing?01:54
sacha_redeeman: I don't know01:54
redeemanhow did you install qt?01:54
sacha_on my phone? I didn't install01:54
sacha_redeeman: I read qt is already inside01:54
redeemannot QtGui01:55
sacha_redeeman: ok , I success!01:55
sacha_redeeman: I tested to run it inside root01:56
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sacha_redeeman: But in conclusion, it's not intuitiv to install an application! you need 1: copy deb in your phone, 2: gain-root and install it, 3 : close root and run it01:57
mikhaswoglinde, dont spoil it =)01:57
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sacha_So I success to configure my Developpement Desktop on maemo 5.. Thanks you very much for your help! I will start the port of Gluon games lib on it !02:04
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Xamuskhas anyone here ever cracked open an N800?02:07
GeneralAntillesOnly the front cover.02:07
XamuskI think I have a bad contact in my AC connector02:08
SpeedEvilXamusk: hammer!02:09
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jebbaany python gurus around?02:17
jebbafrom ez_setup import use_setuptools02:17
jebbaImportError: No module named ez_setup02:17
jebbai kind of get what's happening, but why isn't it finding it? Is the python too old in the SDK or what?02:18
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jebbai've come across this twice now, i dont quite get it ;)02:18
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jebbabecause I do have python-setuptools 0.6c9-1maemo202:19
woglindelet me see02:19
woglindeuse from setuptools import setup02:20
woglindethats working02:20
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woglindeproably you need to ship the .egg file02:20
woglindeI had to for my package02:20
jebbawoglinde: this is what i'm trying to package:
jebbaupstream doesnt have an .egg, and I protest ignorance.  I think i've used them here & there with ruby.... ;)02:22
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woglindeokay I am going to slepp now02:24
woglindereplace the setup line with mine02:24
jebbasleep well02:24
jebbaok which package and i'll take a look?02:24
woglinde-from distutils.core import setup02:25
woglinde-from ez_setup import use_setuptools02:25
woglinde+from setuptools import setup02:25
woglindeis my patch02:25
jebbacool thx!02:25
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GeneralAntillesI really want somebody to release an overclocking app to that thread on Talk so a bunch of people can fry their N900s.02:27
SpeedEvilalso overclock the flashlight.02:28
SpeedEvilwhich is probably easier02:28
shinkamuiwhy would that be the case, the Cortex A8 can easily run faster02:28
SpeedEvilshinkamui: it's complex.02:29
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SpeedEvilshinkamui: chips are rated for speed for several reasons.02:29
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SpeedEvilshinkamui: even without thermal issues - other reasons can cause short lives at high loads.02:29
SpeedEvilshinkamui: for example, electromigration02:29
Ronaldo38741Still, some chips are well below their ceiling02:30
SpeedEvilAnd you have the detailed design documents on the SoC product code that's in the n900 that lets you say it's safe or not?02:31
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Ronaldo38741No, but if there was such an app, one could find out relatively quickly02:31
shinkamuitake one for the team :)02:31
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Ronaldo38741Even with such documents, one can never 'say' with absolute confidence02:32
Ronaldo38741Have to get out there and test it02:32
SpeedEvilyes, you can.02:32
Ronaldo38741No, you can't02:32
sacha_memo 5 use openGL ES 1.1 or 2.02:32
Ronaldo38741The documents don't tell you how the device is wearing out, how it is held, what drinks have been dropped on it, etc.02:32
SpeedEvilThe maker may for example say 'at 600MHz constantly, the product life will be reduced to a minimum of 5000 hours at 25C, derated by 100 hours/C' ...02:32
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Ronaldo38741The useful overclock wouldn't be changing to a constant, but pumping the upper value02:34
Ronaldo38741Which many would see as an acceptable risk02:34
Termana_n810Sacha_ - I believe Maemo 5 uses OpenGL ES 2 for the new hildon-desktop02:34
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* sacha_ start to develop MedicTool ( A tool for medecin and student, which compute some medical score)02:37
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shinkamuifinally lost it, and disconnected this pos kvm02:45
shinkamuiI really need a USB KVM02:45
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jebbahmm. now it just aint finding setuptools.  any other python folks around? python-setuptools is there.03:02
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t7g__jebba, is it in path though?03:10
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jebbat7g__: just doing a simple:   "from setuptools import setup"    python-setuptools is installed.03:12
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jebba /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/setuptools             I also changed to /usr/bin/python2.503:12
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jebbai think i may have to write a rules from scratch or something. I grabbed this one from sid.  I haven't packaged python apps into .debs yet....03:14
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AFBN900generalantilles ping03:19
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ifreqis there a notes/sketch app which supports both skethicng by hand/stylus and text by keyb?03:24
jebbatuxpaint on n900 yet?  ;)03:24
shinkamuiseems only via chroot03:25
shinkamuiI think there is a deb for the 800 that installs but has issues03:26
shinkamuijust from reading in the forum...03:26
ifreqthere is on repos03:26
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auenfnokia messaging will be changing to subscription for maemo also?03:29
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ifreqbtw any logical explanation why sim aut at machine start is touchpad active only?03:31
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ifreqhmm tuxpaint got lost somewhere after install sigh03:36
jebbagah, "ImportError: No module named setuptools"  wtf.  hmm03:41
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shinkamuiI will kill someone04:00
shinkamuiif nokia messaging becomes a pay service04:00
shinkamuisince they refuse to make google work04:00
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shinkamuieven if it IS a strange implementation by google, stfu, every other freeking activesync supporting device works fine with it04:01
redeemanshinkamui: what is nokia messaging?04:01
shinkamuinokias push service for aggregated email04:02
redeemanah i see04:02
shinkamuiat least, thast how I'd describe it04:02
redeemani know that04:02
redeemanbut that's crazy to use04:02
redeemandid you read the terms of service?04:02
shinkamuipossibly skimmed over it when I started using it in 200704:02
shinkamuiwhat should I know that I dont04:03
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redeemanit says that they will not directly give out your data to anyone, but that they will transfer it unencrypted through hostile networks (such as the US)04:03
redeemannokia was probably told it would be unfortunate if it were to become hard for them to do business in the US if they didn't04:03
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shinkamuilol, I LIVE in the us04:04
shinkamuiIm not seeing your point04:04
redeemanthat doesn't make it better04:04
KenYoungDoes Nokia do any business in the US?04:04
shinkamuivery little comparatively04:04
shinkamuibut there are a few nokia stores in the US04:04
shinkamuiliterally a handful04:04
KenYoungThey're both closing.04:04
redeemanshinkamui: the point is, that while they will not directly hand over your data to the NSA and everyone else, they will leave it unlocked and turn their backs while people make their own cozy copies04:05
KenYoung(the stores)04:05
shinkamuiredeeman, good thing, if anyone is actually interested in reading my personal mail, they're entitled to do so04:05
redeemanso why don't you fork over your email username and password to me right now?04:06
redeemani'd be most interrested in reading it04:06
shinkamuianything I send thats needs to be fyeo, is always pgp encrypted04:06
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shinkamuiand Im not sending anything terrorist oriented, so again, if some agency, decided for some reason that they had nothing better to do then  scan my mail, I wouldn't likely stand out04:06
shinkamuiI guess I should care, but I dont04:07
redeemanthat's not the point04:07
redeemanyou should care04:07
redeemannext thing you know they will be coming to do anal examinations to make sure you don't carry terrorist stuff in your ass04:07
redeemanwill you care then?04:07
shinkamuiif that ever happens, Ill take my glove like the next man04:07
redeemanlike a true patriot04:08
redeemanbut that day is not far away04:08
shinkamuicall me when they start blocking my fetish porn04:08
redeemanthe US has already forcibly done this to people, albeit in drug searches04:08
shinkamuiTHEN Ill march on washington04:08
shinkamuiUS hating propaganda aside, Im really angry about this nokia messaging BS04:09
shinkamuiI hope email is fixed in the next release of the FW04:09
redeemanbut its not just the US04:09
redeemanit didn't say it was ONLY the US it would take your data through04:09
redeemanpresumably it might be going through the US, iran, north korea and other such places04:10
shinkamuiyou've convinced me redeeman, Im going to stop using nokia messaging and suffer with a terrible imap implementation04:10
shinkamuishoot, at this point, webmail is almost a better experience then the local client04:11
redeemanthe imap implementation is strangly lacking yes04:11
CaesiumI can only dream of being important enough that agencies would want to snoop on my messages :(04:11
redeemanCaesium: oh i know how to do that04:11
shinkamuiCaesium, I would assume if anything its scanned for keywords which would lead to a finer tooth comb search04:11
shinkamuiIF at all04:11
redeemanstep 1: find some terrorist phpbb's online04:11
redeemanstep 2: encrypt your mothers cookie recipies somewhat good, but bad enough that the NSA can break it04:12
redeemanstep 3: locate LOTS of open proxies, and post the recipies on said bullitin boards through them04:12
shinkamuistep 3: post04:12
redeemani do this regularly ofc :)04:12
redeemanand don't forget to also post "durka durka mohammad jihad" non-encrypted04:13
redeemanand possibly something involving the schedule of some plane route04:13
shinkamuiwell, that is an outstanding social experiment04:15
shinkamuiremember to post pictures if you do get the rubber glove treatment04:15
redeemani do not04:15
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redeemanbecause i do not live in the US04:15
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redeemanand posting innocent information is not yet a crime in the semi-free world04:15
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SpeedEvil'wasting police time' - probably is04:21
shinkamuiwell, you kinow there will always be extremists on any issue04:22
shinkamuiwhat is true freedom, living life without the protection that sometimes end up suspending some of those freedoms04:23
shinkamuiAs long as I can buy whatever tech I like, and can' feel relatively safe from being killed at any given moment, Im fine with things as they are04:23
shinkamuiIll let the conspiracy nuts worry for me04:23
shinkamuibesides, they make some damn good shows04:24
shinkamuihave you seen Jessie Ventura's new show on True TV?04:24
shinkamuisimply awesome :)04:24
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redeemanSpeedEvil: police stupidity is not my problem :)04:28
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ColdFyreis there a program to "remind" of missed calls/unread messages? something would play a tone after X minutes for example04:37
shinkamuidon't know of one04:38
shinkamuigreat idea for a desktop widget though04:38
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shinkamuiredeeman, thanks to you I've broken down and am using nuevasync again04:39
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shinkamuialready had a premium membership, but I HATE how it handles multiple calendars from google04:39
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matthew-Any video converter for MAC?04:48
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shinkamuiuse ffmpeg04:53
matthew-shinkamui: that's console based?04:54
shinkamuiyea, simple command line very quick and easy to batch04:55
matthew-let's have a look04:55
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matthew-uh i dont even have C on my mac04:56
rohanpmso how do you type "mac" ?04:59
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shinkamuiI had just assumed he meant xcode and gnu dev environment05:00
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matthew-rohanpm: idiot.05:01
shinkamuihey now, no need to start getting testy in here :)05:02
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Caesiumis it documented anywhere if I can see if there are missed calls or unacknowledged incoming messages from an app? thinking about writing that app that someone wanted earlier, ring an alarm after x minutes for a missed call etc05:38
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phrecksweet, got my first hardware failure with the n90005:51
Caesiumthat doesn't sound very sweet05:52
phreckno audio via handset traditioanlly05:52
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phrecki.e. the phone isnt worlking05:53
phrecknot sure if its the ribbon cable or if speaker leads are loose, but i get audio cutting out05:53
phreckonly way to fix it is by pressing whole device firmly against ear. real wierd.05:53
phreckso no, its not sweet i guess. fixable though05:54
ColdFyreCaesium:  that was me that suggested that =D05:56
pwnguinhow do i send a short code sms?05:56
ColdFyrephreck:  if i were you, i'd just get the thing replaced under warranty05:56
pwnguinie, #BAL# is supposed to give me a balance message, but im not sure how to send that =/05:57
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CaesiumColdFyre: you inspired me enough to go looking through the developer docs but I don't see how to get the number of missed calls/unread messages06:00
Caesiumdidn't find much at all to do with the phone/messaging actually, but it must be possible because there's opensource Conversations widgets appearing06:01
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pwnguinoh yay. turns out such things aren't supported yet =(06:06
pwnguinbut i can issue direct writes to a device file as a workaround!06:06
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SplasPoodSo a buddy is mixing live on and I loaded it up on the N900, along with X-Chat and I was busy listening and chatting away on wifi without much skipping at all...  impressive.06:26
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user___tschibo/o2 claims i have used up my prepaid money and free minutes even though i did not place calls.  only 3 sms sent.06:27
user___tchibo / o2 behauptet meine prepaid gelder seien abgelaufen obwohl ich nicht telefoniert habe und nur 3 sms geschickt habe06:28
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user___just want google to know06:28
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* Caesium discovers that rtcom-eventlogger is completely undocumented and that appears to be the way to see if there's missed calls or unread messages. yay.06:43
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Caesiumfortunately it's in free so I can read the sourced06:43
user___ahh?  can it log individual calls for me?06:43
user___i need data to show provider06:44
Caesiumdunno, it's complete access to all the persistent logs as far as I can see06:44
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CaesiumColdFyre: I'll see what I can do re: the app you wanted tomorrow, it'll be my first foray into Maemo development so don't expect wonders immediately ;)06:48
ColdFyreawesome, no rush :)06:49
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Caesiumthink I found most of the information to do it, the rest is just making a UI and packaging it and presenting it in a format that will be useful06:49
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BirdFlewdoes samba work on the N900?06:53
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cehtehthere are no much reasons against that ..samba is already running on some arm based nas things, and doesnt require much magic06:56
cehtehdunno if anyone has ported/packaged it yet06:56
pupnikexists for older OS, should be binary compatible06:58
cehtehwargs ... my programs menu/folder is broken .. displaying the "first" and "more..." over each other06:59
cehtehwell i reflash later and send the device back06:59
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pupnikwhy send back07:00
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cehtehreboots, charger cable broken, camera slider had a spring come loose07:04
cehtehwell and generally i hope for a device with a newer hardware revision07:05
pupnikhence the wait :)07:05
cehtehthis one is from amazon warehouse deals07:05
cehtehi have a order open at mp3-player.de07:06
cehtehi doubt that warehouse deals can ship a replacement unit .. so money back and wait until end of month07:06
pwnguinpupnik: what's inflation got to do with maemo?07:07
pupnikignorant brainstorm votedown call07:12
pwnguinalso, the inflation rate would have to be pretty damn high for me to stop using my discover card07:12
pupnikall pastefails from N900 are relevant in a way :)07:13
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cehtehwell .. the partitioning scheme is really something where nokia failed spectacular07:15
cehtehsmall rootfs is ok .. but its all to brittle set up07:16
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cehtehlook how the eeepcs or olpc do it. its almost impossible to brick then07:17
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BirdFlewyeah it could certainly stand improvement. FAT, ugh07:18
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cehtehwhy usb storage .. pc suite and networking and provide a samba .. or usb storage with some kind of virtual fat server over a linux filesystem if one really wants fat07:20
cehtehhaving the root readonly. layer a unionfs over it which takes the users modifications, possibly with snapshots or backups07:21
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pupnik"i thought about this for 5 seconds and know my opinion is correct"07:30
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pupniki suppose such threads are magnets for that, inevitably07:30
pupniki like the sound of that cehteh but i dont know what problems it would have07:32
phrwhat's MMS?07:38
pupniksms for pix07:38
jXmultimedia mesages07:38
jXyeah, sms pix and videos07:38
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cehtehpupnik: such a solution would move problems into software .. thus easier fixable if you find them07:40
pupnikcehteh: not if it crushes fs performance07:41
* BirdFlew is heading to 7-11 for a slurpee, it just hit 42oC here...07:41
cehtehpupnik: i know a lot people/products which do that on small/embedded systems07:42
pupnikaha ty07:42
pupnikany interest in trying it out on N900?07:42
cehtehnot with nokias kernel/bootloader policies07:43
pupnikwhich closed component prevents you?07:43
cehtehits more the attitiude, even if it works for me, this doesnt solve anything for me when i have to set it up by myself .. it would help a lot novice users07:44
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cehtehthats something nokia had to be shipped with the standard firmware .. for me its easier just to turn a few switches to customize my device07:45
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cehtehi know how to reflash and how to backup and repartition ..07:46
pupnikmoorning RST38h07:46
cehtehmoin :)07:46
jXso, apps still install to the root part it seems? why do we haev all the weird partitioning now then?07:47
RST38hheya pupnik07:47
cehtehxandros may suck .. but asus did a very good job setting it up on the first eeepcs07:47
RST38hhow are things? anything interesting? disasters, massacres, PR1.1 release?07:48
cehtehall at once :)07:48
* cehteh deleting his device and sends it back later07:48
cehtehRST38h: did my screenshots help you with the xchat bug?07:48
pupnikjust enjoying the procedural landscapes in mass effect07:48
RST38hcehteh: As I said a few times before, I cannot recreate it. Weird.07:49
RST38hpupnik: Real ones no longer satisfy? =)07:49
cehtehRST38h: you tried with similar settings for indenting/divider bar and so on?07:49
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cehtehlemme try07:49
pupniki cant go around shooting who i want... hey in mass effect either07:50
cehtehRST38h: Droid Sans Mono Bold 12 is the font .. maybe the bold rendering affects that07:51
* pupnik ponders 3d uqm07:51
cehtehyes confirmed ..07:51
cehtehif i use regular it disappears07:51
RST38hcehteh: Well, you have solved your problem.07:52
phreckstarcon 2 needs to be ported. that game pwned even more07:52
cehtehwell i had no problem with it .. i just think its a text rendering bug07:52
RST38hpupnik: pity, isn't it?07:52
cehtehif it would be some off-by one bug and a over/underflow it could be slightly more dramatic07:53
pupnikphreck:  it IS07:53
pupnikflandry did a nice job of it - ur-quan masters07:53
phreckim an ass. i meant 307:54
pupnikoh. never tried07:54
phrecki played them all back in the day07:54
pupniknot foss either07:54
pierluxhum, I uploaded a package to maemo-extra-devel but it doesnt show up in the repo even if it succeeded to build 2 days ago07:54
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phreckim all about the juffo wup07:55
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phrwhy is the n900 video limited to 25 fps?  almost all us television is 30 fps08:01
cehtehits not 30fps :)08:02
cehtehmoreover cinema is mostly 24fps, PAL/SECAM is 25fps08:03
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Macerwtf would they think Leno could carry prime  time08:03
RST38hLeno is still alive?08:04
jXleno is only funny at 11:30 because by then old people are exhausted and will laugh at anything08:04
jXat 10pm they're still awake enough to see he's not funny.08:04
lcukgood moorning08:05
RST38hgood moorning lcuk08:06
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tigert  morning08:06
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lcukanyone know how i change ssh password08:06
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cehtehfor your key?08:09
cehtehor system account then 'passwd'08:09
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cehtehssh itself doesnt store passwords08:09
lcukyeah i got ssh installed on an n900 but the pass it should be isnt being accepted08:09
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pwnguinlcuk: did you specify a user?08:10
* cehteh usually disables all passwords and only uses key auth08:10
lcukpwnguin, root08:10
cehtehroot has no ssh set up you can only login as user by default08:10
lcukthe same one that gets requested when you install openssh08:10
cehtehssh user@n90008:10
lcuki just did a restore and half expected it to ask me08:11
cehtehi really recommend not to use password logins for root08:11
MacerjX: haha08:11
Macerwell. i don't think 10pm is primetime08:11
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Maceri thought prime time was like 7-908:11
cehteh(or even better no password logins at all)08:11
lcukrecommended or not, how can i change it?08:11
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tigertlcuk: install rootsh, root, passwd root08:12
lcukthx i had everything on, the passwd just didnt work08:12
lcuki thought restore had just not brought it back (just reflashed it)08:12
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lcukcehteh, so you would prefer the openssh packages to not bother asking for a passwd08:15
lcukand tell users who install it to just do key based mechanisms?08:15
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cehtehlcuk: asking and overriding the password is a bad habbit .. dunno if there is a default user password08:16
lcukbut ive seen people do it, its relatively trivial to allow08:16
cehtehbut i rather prefer to leave it unconfigured rather than overriding it08:16
cehtehanyone using ssh should know at least the basics08:17
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lcuki just use it so i can use the console from big keyboard08:17
cehtehi had to reinstall openssh once and it reset my disabled password .. i dont like that08:17
BirdFlewanyone tried firefox/fennec? is it better than microB?08:17
cehtehNope worse08:17
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lcukcehteh, how is the password disabled then for it to be reenabled?08:18
cehtehplace a * in the password column08:18
ruskieis it just me or is t.m.o painfully slow?08:18
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cehtehsetting new password should be explicit cancelable at least (maybe it is, but there is no hint for it)08:20
cehtehand it would be also nice if installing openssh asks for a pubkey (file chooser)08:20
cehtehbut well .. i totally prefer if installing just installs and leaves it unconfigured (and closed)08:20
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lcukso the dialog that bobs up at the moment asking for passwd08:21
pwnguinBirdFlew: I like the history UI08:21
lcuk(which i presume would break automated installs)08:21
cehtehyes thats what it currently does .. imo annoying08:21
lcukcould be upgraded to allow 2 new things08:21
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lcukinfo, and a file select08:21
lcukbefore still allowing the normall passwd one?08:21
cehtehbut well automatic installs on such a device are rare and usually people install through the app manager anyways08:21
lcukthrough app manager is one thing08:22
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lcukbut you can bulk install08:22
cehtehi know08:22
lcuktho i havent seen messages when restoring08:22
cehtehhence i prefer to leave it unconfigigured08:22
lcukim assuming it already has passwd set by then after other restores08:22
* lcuk nods08:22
cehtehbut that can also be a gapping hole .. in case 'user' has no password at all (but not disabled) by default08:23
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cehtehthat must be closed of course08:23
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cehtehi dont know the default setup08:23
lcukjust idle curiosity really, people seem to use openssh just fine08:24
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tigerti dont think ssh as user into device works08:31
tigertwithout pwd08:31
tigerti think openssh doesnt let that happen?08:32
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cehtehtigert: depends on the config08:32
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ruskiejust add a password or a private key08:32
ruskieeither should work08:32
cehtehssh has a PermitEmptyPassword option08:32
cehtehiirc its off08:33
cehtehbut even if the device has some common password in the firmeare it would be a hole08:33
tigerton the openssh server pqackage08:33
cehtehit certainly has user set password at delivery state08:33
tigertit has PermitEmptyPasswords  NO08:33
cehtehhas no08:33
cehtehso my question is rather whats the default password of a fresh device before you installed anything?08:34
cehtehnone, disabled, some nokia set one?08:34
tigertuser has none afaik08:34
cehtehi can check later after reflashign08:34
tigertroot has a default passwd of "rootme"08:36
tigertbut remote logins are not possible unless you install a ssh server08:36
tigertat which point you want to change it08:37
tigertwhich the package does08:37
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BirdFlewKMFDM, interesting name.. from the band yeah?08:45
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BirdFlewnice one08:48
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BirdFlewanyone at all familiar with the facebook api? would it be easy or even possible to integrate that into the maemo IM subsystem?08:51
cehtehisnt there a plugin for that already?08:53
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julianol1veraround 4 days ago, possibly after an 'update everything', i can no longer send and receive mail on the N900. i simply get 'failed' on sending. i can't seem to find a /var/log/mail.log equivalent in the filesystem to debug. any suggestions?08:55
BirdFlewpossibly, i might try that thing all the kids are doing these days... what was it? oh yeah, googling it :-)08:55
julianol1verBirdFlew: yes, i have done plenty of that, of course. no luck so far regarding why mail is suddenly failing.08:57
julianol1verinstead there are many threads just like this:
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BirdFlewactually mate that googling comment was directed at myself for a question i asked just before you joined, hope it didn't sound like i was being rude to you08:58
julianol1verBirdFlew: ahah ;)08:59
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tigertso what should a mediaplayer do to be able to play music when the phone has silent profile in use?09:03
tigertand why do none of the free ones do that?09:04
ruskiejust need to tell it to be in group=player09:06
ruskieto pulse09:06
ruskieyou can alsa set it in /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf09:06
ruskiethough some apparently have a /usr/share/etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf09:07
ruskieor something like it09:07
* tigert wonders why no player apps do that09:07
ruskieso not really sure09:07
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ruskiemplayer creates an entry supposdely09:07
tigertthat might be09:07
ruskiebut into /usr/share from what I can tell from looking at the sources09:08
ruskiewee a bit of a firmware update09:08
pupnikwhy is typing * and # into phone WONT FIX TODAY?09:08
meceshouldn't the players repect the requested silence?09:10
luke-jrpupnik: who cares about * and #?? I demand A B C and D09:11
ruskiemece, when I silence the device I expect it to only silence the phone stuff09:11
meceruskie, I see. what about im's, emails and all that?09:11
ruskieWTF keeps changing my /etc/sudoers09:12
pwnguinpupnik: its fixed but not released, because nokia likes to hoard fixes until people give up on them09:12
pwnguinand of course, they dont announce new firmware until its available, because they hate having third party developers09:13
meceruskie, there's some script that modifies the sudoer file09:13
ruskieyeah but why does it remove any of my own documentations09:14
ruskiemodifications even09:14
meceruskie, perhaps you upset it somehow? :)09:14
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tigertmece: it silences mails etc09:20
tigertmusuc is something i start and stop myself09:21
tigertmusic even :)09:21
tigertor videos09:21
Nitialhey, is the 1.2009.44-1 upgrade the so-called PR1.1?09:21
tigertprofile should silence events (except alarm clock which is a valid exception)09:21
pwnguinNitial: i have 1.2009.42-11.00209:22
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pwnguinso maybe?09:22
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konttori_nokiaGuys! You might want to go to HAM and try checking for updates ;) ;) ;)09:22
konttori_nokia--->> Pr1.0.1 is out!09:23
pwnguinbut if so, i have to delete a huge part of my rant09:23
Nitialit was only 18 megabytes.. I was expecting much bigger :)09:23
pwnguinHAM == hildon app manager?09:23
lcukkonttori_nokia, :D top stuff, wd dude!09:24
pwnguinpupnik: just a guess, but it looks like *# actually might be fixed today? :)09:24
konttori_nokiawon't be. 1.0.1 is mostly HAM update.09:25
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cehtehkonttori_nokia: changelog anywhere?09:25
Nitialah, the big 1.1 update is still coming09:25
cehteh1.1 isnt big either .. just a lot bugfixes09:26
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cehtehwell its big .. lots of bugs09:26
konttori_nokia1.0.1 needs to be on device to be able to update to 1.1. 1.1 was such a big update that we needed to tune the system before big updates are possible09:26
cehtehbut almost no new feature09:26
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rlinfati1.0.1 ? is released ?09:26
* rlinfati running apt-get update, apt-get upgrade...09:27
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pwnguini see nothing...09:27
lcukrlinfati, f5f5f5f5f5f5f509:27
cehtehMaemo5 in app manager09:27
konttori_nokiaI think europe is already out, uk will be at noon.09:27
cehtehi see it09:27
tigerti wish mediaplayer didnt stop videos when i switch apps09:27
* pwnguin is in the US09:27
cehtehcan try it, i want to reflash later anyways :P09:27
konttori_nokiaand rest of the countries by 6 pm finnish time (it's 9:27 AM now)09:27
tigertits nice feature for movies but not so nice if one listens to music videos09:28
lcuktigert, talk to me about that elsewhere, ive encountered it too09:28
konttori_nokiatigert, use mplayer09:28
rlinfatiqik and maemo5 update!! yuppi09:28
tigertkonttori_nokia: does that too09:28
konttori_nokiaAnd some big announcement for later this evening still !09:28
cehtehkonttori_nokia: also new images for flashing available?09:29
konttori_nokiatigert, mplayer won't stop when you go to switcher09:29
konttori_nokiacehteh, I don't know when/where flash images will be available09:29
tybolltshouldn't the app manager alert you there's an update?09:29
konttori_nokiaat least the NSU should be available09:29
cehtehtybollt: it does here09:29
rlinfatigrrr.... do not install...09:29
tybolltwon't here :S09:29
konttori_nokiatybollt, appman checks for updates only one per 24h09:29
Corsachmmh, talk.m.o keeps sending me the same mail09:30
pwnguintybollt: depends on your connection and schedule09:30
Corsacabout a new post available in a thread09:30
cehtehand setup you can turn that off09:30
tigertactually not09:30
* cehteh runs the update09:30
rlinfatiwhat amount of memory is need to make the update ?09:30
tigertfor some reason it did stop when i last tried09:30
tybollt"application list partially update - some catalogues unavailable - check your .. list"09:30
ruskiekonttori_nokia, hmm I notice something odd with the update HAM... the categories aren't finger friendly anymore09:30
tybollt-> reboot09:30
tigertkonttori_nokia: youtube has the full pink floyd  Pulse live as two parts :)09:31
pupniki need to save conversations or copy the text for provider problem resolution09:31
* tigert loves the get youtube video bookmarklet on N90009:31
konttori_nokiaruskie, ? they are more finger friendly now09:31
mecekonttori_nokia, announcement this evening?09:31
mecekonttori_nokia, regarding N900?09:32
ruskiekonttori_nokia, hmm they are tiny here... lemme take a screenshot09:32
cehtehwahaha .. not enough memory for updateing09:32
tybolltthe chinook repo had a missing gpg signature hence it somehow blocked app manager from scanning the other - working - repos in my app manager09:32
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tybolltcehteh: same here09:33
tybolltcehteh: I'm trying reboot09:33
Milo-firmware update didn't fix the "date format" issue09:33
tybollt(usually works when I fill'er up09:33
tybolltMilo-: meh, you have that issue too? :)09:33
rlinfaticehteh, disable extras repositories and try again.....09:33
Milo-tybollt yes09:33
* tybollt thought I was the only one ona planet who found it weird09:34
Milo-device language English UK, but regional settings is Finland.09:34
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Milo-I want Finnish date format, not English one.09:34
ruskieI want ISO date format09:34
tybolltMilo-: IMHO the date format should be entirely adjustable09:34
Milo-tybollt yes, I think so too :/09:34
tybolltMilo-: PRESTO that is it09:34
Milo-same with decimal and thousands separator09:34
cehtehkonttori_nokia: what prevented nokia from making a more sane partitioning?09:35
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tybolltMilo-: the fact you can adjust the date format on any nokia since the dawn of times - is ... even worse :)09:35
konttori_nokiacehteh, you mean, bigger home?09:35
Milo-tekojo hey o/09:35
pwnguinprobabably the unstability of unionfs09:35
rlinfationly kernel, ham, and gtk ?09:35
konttori_nokiaruskie, you are missing the theme update09:35
konttori_nokiait needs the icons.09:35
cehtehkonttori_nokia: no, general more solid setup -- like i talked about above09:36
Corsactybollt: I think you only need to manage to export LC_TIME at the correct place09:36
konttori_nokiaruskie, how did you make the update?09:36
ruskieI updated both -alpha and -beta09:36
konttori_nokiawhat theme is that?09:36
Milo-tekojo any update on the Maemo-course= (weeks 7 and 8)09:36
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konttori_nokiaI think the theme is missing the icons.09:36
ruskiekonttori_nokia, a modified -beta09:36
ruskiemodified yesterday09:36
konttori_nokiawell, switch to some other theme.09:36
cehtehhaving the root readonly. layer a unionfs over it which takes the users modifications, possibly with snapshots or backups09:36
ruskieI'll check it09:36
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pwnguincehteh: is unionfs in kernel mainline yet?09:37
cehtehkonttori_nokia: like eeepcs and others do09:37
konttori_nokiaMilo-, file a bug09:37
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Milo-konttori_nokia about date format?09:37
tigertmplayer gets sound out of sync though09:37
cehtehpwnguin: who cares if you are a device manufacturer and roll your own kernel anyways?09:37
konttori_nokiaMilo-, yeah, and get people to vote on it.09:37
Milo-there already is an open bug-file for that09:37
ruskiekonttori_nokia, I see... I'll update my theme09:37
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konttori_nokiatigert, get in touch with the dev and make them aware of the out of synch09:38
pwnguincehteh: device manufacturers who accept bricked device returns?09:38
lcukisnt there an option for sync difference09:38
tigertthough gotta try that with desktop mplayer first09:38
cehtehpwnguin: huh?09:38
povbot`Bug 6363: Date format should be defined by Regional Settings, not Device Language09:38
lcuki assume with the way mplayer is built (kitchensink) there will be09:38
pwnguincehteh: why isn't unionfs upstream?09:38
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konttori_nokiatigert, do you know who is the primary maintainer of mplayer now ? still ssvb?09:38
lcukand on our platform by default it should be set?09:38
tybolltpovbot`: amen to that09:39
povbot`tybollt: Error: "amen" is not a valid command.09:39
cehtehpwnguin: because linus doesnt like it?09:39
tigertkonttori_nokia: maemo or ustream?09:39
cehtehnot all useable stuff is upstream .. and not only because of stability problems .. others than linus can write reasonable working software too09:39
konttori_nokiamaemo, I think.09:39
Corsacwoo, 44.1 available09:39
pwnguincehteh: it's in -mm though, and will be in mainline09:40
cehtehthere may be quality concerns .. but i can give you examples where it is used with much more succees and stability than what nokia did with the n90009:40
Stskeepskonttori_nokia: btw, not sure if wazd told you, but we found the cause for white background and wazd's troubles with his theme, the bug is best illustrated by looking at the output from TM (colors.css) and then colors.css in A Fremantle - the output from TM has 'color' in *Background* whereas the real css has 'background' as it should be09:40
rlinfati! my keyboard is not working...09:40
Stskeeps(color: vs background: that is)09:41
konttori_nokiaStskeeps, thanks!09:41
cehtehpwnguin: when you have a readonly, well defined rootfs, then the device is almost unbrickable09:41
rlinfatigrrr... on x-terminal work, on ham do not work....09:42
konttori_nokiaStskeeps, so, TM is messing up the base data when replacing the colors?09:42
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meceOperating system successfully updated. Well that's a relief :)09:42
cehtehhere too09:42
Stskeepskonttori_nokia: right, just assuming everything should be .Whatever { color: something }09:42
Stskeepskonttori_nokia: whereas some of them, like BackgroundColor* should be .Whatever { background: something }, messing up SMS view for instance09:43
cehtehnew 'ovi' application catalouge?09:43
Corsacerf “not enough memory in target location”09:44
cehtehCorsac: disable all non-default repos09:44
cehtehdevel testing extras09:44
Corsacrootfs                  227.5M    214.8M      8.6M  96% /09:44
Milo-is there a changeslist for the latest firmware update?09:44
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cehtehnew bounce evolution? ...09:45
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cehtehmore levels?09:45
tigertCorsac: remove apps I guess :P09:45
Corsactigert: yep I guess so :)09:45
tgCorsac: hm i also ran out of space on / the other day, i moved & symlinked some stuff from /usr/share to the /home partition ;]09:45
konttori_nokiaStskeeps, thanks a lot! SHould be easy to fix!09:45
Stskeepskonttori_nokia: np, i just look forward to having non-broken custom themes :)09:46
tybolltcan't uninstall firefeck due to deps >:)09:48
tybolltthat's a nice one09:48
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rosheniahi! no news about new firmware to nokia n900?09:53
rlinfatiPackage: offscr-cube, Section: user/hidden  <-- jiji09:53
cehtehhehe we all installed it just before you joined09:53
phrso is the n770 even slightly interesting these days?  i've never done anything with mine.09:53
pwnguinis user/hidden hidden?09:53
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Stskeepsphr: we had a Mer port to it but it's slightly difficult to run anything that doesn't fit in a sardine can on it :P09:54
Stskeepsrlinfati: don't tell me the ovi repo is just exposed but packages are user/hidden..09:55
meceroshenia, I updated, it worked. Things look the same except for app manager.09:55
derfStskeeps: That's the way a real embedded device _should_ be.09:55
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rosheniamece, what you mean?09:55
Stskeepsderf: n8x0/n900 aren't embedded devices :P09:55
derfStskeeps: I noticed.09:55
Stskeeps770 however..09:55
rlinfatiskrankki, curl -k | grep Package:09:55
meceroshenia, I mean there were no problems, and app manager has new icons.09:56
Stskeepsrlinfati: ...09:56
rosheniamece, i have 1.2009.42.1109:56
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Corsacerf, /var/lib/dpkg/info is 22M09:56
derfI'm not even that bothered with the fact that everyone keeps writing all this Python crap for the N900 like I was for the N8x0.09:56
meceroshenia, 1.2009.44-1 is out today09:57
rosheniamece, and i have strange power leaks: in 0.00 i charge battery and plug off charger, in 8.00 i get about 40% of battery09:57
rosheniawhere i can upgrade09:57
meceapp manager09:57
cehtehderf: yeah i opt for more lua stuff because thats easier to integrate with real programming09:57
Stskeepsrlinfati: that exposes all ovi store items? :P09:58
rosheniamece, i lost all my old data?09:58
meceroshenia, no.09:58
goodwillanyone here used songbird with n900?09:58
meceroshenia, but you can do a backup09:58
rlinfatiStskeeps, curl... | wc -l => 7309:58
rosheniamece, if i upload new firmware? its good?09:58
derfcehteh: I more meant, slow interpreted languages that require 10+ MB installs have no business being on an embedded device, and certainly no one should write a program that uses one.09:59
Stskeepsrlinfati: and that's installed in 44.1 that repo?09:59
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derfBut as Stskeeps said, the N900 is not really an embedded device.09:59
rlinfatiStskeeps, yes09:59
tybolltn900 is a computer09:59
pwnguinrlinfati: permission denied.09:59
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meceroshenia, read this thread if you're curious about the new update:
tybolltfull fledged09:59
rlinfatipwnguin, you need a trick to enter....09:59
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rosheniamece, good. tnx10:00
Stskeepsrlinfati: /etc/apt/auth?10:00
pwnguinis that the same for every device?10:00
rlinfatii think....10:00
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rlinfatipwnguin, yes10:01
pwnguinwhy bother?10:01
julianol1veranyone else experiencing broken mail, ovi sharing the last few days? i see several posts to maemo talk about it but no resolutions yet..10:01
Stskeepspwnguin: i personally don't mind this scheme, it makes it possible for non-maemo OS'es to have key blobs :P10:02
Milo-I want nethack on my phone10:02
rlinfatiis all on hildon-application-manager-settings-standard10:02
Milo-not that stupid Vulture's Eye10:02
rosheniamece, can you say. how many hours live your nokia n900?10:02
pwnguinMilo-: just ssh into a nethack server?10:02
pwnguinStskeeps: key blobs?10:03
Milo-pwnguin network eats battery10:03
rlinfatii can not change the name of extras repository... :(10:03
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cehtehMilo-: there is nethack ,, with gui10:04
pwnguini mean, i get how you might want a private protected server, but if everyone has the same username / password, it doesnt make much sense in this case10:04
Milo-as I said, not that stupid Vulture's Eye..10:04
Milo-nethack uses ncurses10:04
tigertroshenia: the firmware update will show up as a "maemo update" on your application manager10:04
tigertI dont think you need to reflash10:04
cehtehwell nethack with the n900 keybioard will be no fun10:05
Milo-how so?10:05
tigertnethack with accelerometer move support would be fun :)10:05
julianol1verthat's perverse.10:05
tigertsorta like marble madness... :D10:05
rlinfatih-a-m do not update feedservice-* sharing-service-facebook and otherrs... :( doing apt-get upgrade..10:05
Stskeepsrlinfati: i think user/hidden is just so it doesn't show up in two places10:05
rosheniatigert, i have shit internet10:05
_berto_the maemo 5 update is out10:05
Milo-cehteh why would maemo's keyboard be an issue?10:05
pwnguinyea, probably POWDER is a better match10:05
_berto_check your app managers10:05
tigertroshenia: less to download10:06
pwnguin_berto_: apparently its country specific, which is fine by me10:06
rlinfatiStskeeps, 2 places? ovi and h-a-m?10:06
roshenia how many hours live your nokia n900?10:06
pwnguinall you euros can beta test so when i wake up tomorrow i know if its really idiot proof10:06
Stskeepsrlinfati: yeah10:06
Stskeepsrlinfati: it seems like ovi/ repo is only free apps anyway10:06
Stskeepsif it's not, it's really really stupid security :)10:07
Milo-Maemo Mapper crashed my phone :o10:07
pwnguinback to Mother 3 then10:07
Milo-ctrl+alt+f1 plx :(10:07
BirdFlewcountry specific? so will it ever appear in australia?10:08
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konttori_nokianorth america pr1.0.1 should be out in about 5 hours.10:08
rlinfatiis pr 1.0.1 on ?10:09
konttori_nokiaprobably all gates will be opened then (also australia)10:09
tigertrlinfati: if you have bad internet, you should use application manager10:09
tigertits less to download10:09
Wolfienope, no maemo update for me yet10:09
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pwnguinthat guy apparently built nethack on the 77010:09
Stskeepskonttori_nokia: will pr1.0.1 be reflected in SDK release update since you're publishing a new kernel and HAM? (both published as source)10:10
ruskiekonttori_nokia, well got the icons now as well10:10
Milo-pwnguin I see :)10:10
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BirdFlewwhat repo is the update on?10:10
rosheniatigert, hehe. i didnt see any updates10:10
Milo-if I remember nethack's dependencies correctly, all it needs is ncurses10:10
tigertroshenia: like someone said, it apparently is depending on your country, so it should happen later today then10:11
Stskeepskonttori_nokia: actually most interested in kernel since HAM is developed openly :P10:11
Milo-hmm, ncurses, yup10:11
tigertStskeeps: you mean open development is not interesting? ;^)10:12
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Stskeepstigert: well more along the lines of that i saw HAM code already before pr1.0.1 in gitorious :) but kernel isn't published that easily10:13
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tigert;) just joking10:13
konttori_nokiakernel contains one fix, which is allowing HAM to trigger ubifs to higher compression level for the SSU update.10:13
konttori_nokiaso, it is not interesting to devs at all.10:13
rosheniawhat about batterry life ?10:14
konttori_nokiabrowser contains one fix, which is browser UA string to say that it's pr1.0.1 device.10:14
Corsacok, update went well10:14
konttori_nokiaGTK contains one fix, which is dropping the icon cache support.10:14
Corsacfirst boot the screen was garbled but then after another reboot it works fine10:14
konttori_nokiaapplication manager contains 37 fixes, mostly related to SSU stability10:15
Corsac(might be related to the fact I did the upgrade using apt-get)10:15
konttori_nokiaAnd a bit related to the new look of the app grid.10:15
tigertCorsac: ew, do not do that10:15
tigertCorsac: that is not really guaranteed to work afaik10:15
cehtehand it doesnt loose position when isntalling an app10:15
cehtehthats nice10:15
tigertjust because it looks like debian, doesnt mean its debian :)10:16
Corsackonttori_nokia: ho?10:16
Stskeepskonttori_nokia: depending on how quickly pr1.1 comes, we should probably pre-empt that someone will be asking for the source of the kernel for pr1.0.1 though10:16
konttori_nokiaStskeeps, probably a good idea. I just want to hear first when 1.1 will be out.10:16
BirdFlewreally? why is using apt-get not a good idea?10:16
CorsacStskeeps: could we have the source for 1.0.1 kernel?10:16
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Corsac(ok, done.)10:16
konttori_nokiaapt-get will consume more rootfs during the update.10:16
StskeepsCorsac: there's a written offer in your nokia n900 manual or something10:16
konttori_nokiathis is mostly interesting for the pr1.1 update10:17
CorsacStskeeps: ha, good point10:17
Corsackonttori_nokia: ok, I'll do the 1.1 update from HAM10:17
konttori_nokiaand apt-get won't set device to rescue mode, so if something goes wrong, device might not boot up nicely anymore.10:17
ruskierescue mode?10:18
cehtehhehe anyone who never had to reflash here raise hands please :P10:18
Corsacwhy is /var on rootfs anyway?10:19
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tigertBirdFlew: it is not tested really, and it can break your device10:19
rosheniawhy i didnt see maemo update?10:19
tigertchances are it might work, but just as well it might not10:19
goodwillI wonder if I should remove MyMenu before I do it10:19
ifreqcehteh *raising hand*10:19
cehtehok one of 47810:20
BirdFlewcool, thanks for the info10:20
ruskiecehteh, merly due to my own messing around10:20
Stskeepsanyone with pr1.0.1 yet?10:20
*** cehteh changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Happy New Year on behalf of the Maemo Community"10:20
Stskeepscould they do a dpkg -l kernel-modules for me?10:20
ruskieI think10:20
rlinfatiStskeeps, here10:20
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rlinfatiii  kernel-modules              2.6.28-20094102.6+0m5       Linux kernel modules10:21
Stskeepsoh, just .610:21
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rosheniain there are only OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-1110:21
Stskeepsroshenia: submit a bug against website10:21
rosheniaahahahhaah =)10:22
Milo-anyone know if you can add your own entry to nokia's calendar's alarm-menu?10:22
cehteh /var and /usr should be bind mounted to the emmc .. well10:22
ruskiewhy bind mounted?10:22
ruskiejust normal mount a partition on emmc to /usr :)10:23
ruskieas for var I wouldn't try it10:23
Milo-I mean if you want a custom "alarm X-time before" entry?10:23
Milo-darn that's hard to describe10:23
ruskierather modify apt configs(which allow it) to tell it where to store the temp files or even not to store more than a certain ammount10:23
ruskieit can be done10:23
rosheniaonly that10:23
cehtehruskie: you could have one partition, lets say /data and there /data/var /data/usr /data/home and bindmount into that10:23
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cehtehsharing space ..10:24
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cehtehbind mounts at most transparent to applications10:24
ruskiecehteh, I just went the repartitoning route :)10:24
rlinfatinow what...?? wait 2 or 3 week for the pr1.1 ?10:24
cehtehi do that with the next device10:24
ruskie <-- feel free to read through it10:24
cehtehwill the 'camera can only save to fat' be fixed?10:24
cehtehthis just sux10:25
Stskeepsrlinfati: or submit a bug requesting a fiasco image on tablets-dev, or grab it through NSU probably10:25
ruskiecehteh, I hope :)10:25
cehtehwell and /etc/fstab has the "this is autogenerated" comment .. what generates the fstab?10:25
rlinfatiStskeeps, pr 1.1 .... the pr 1.0.1 is a joke... ( only new ham.... )10:25
cehtehi didnt yet cared to figure out10:25
ruskiemy instructions remove it10:25
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rosheniamece, i didnt find any updates. what firmware you have?10:26
Stskeepsrlinfati: 1.0.1 is so you are able to get PR1.1 :P10:26
ruskieI prefer to have a static fstab but I can see a use in always generating it... avoids issues if it's corrupted10:26
ruskiebut I'd rather hav an initramfs rescue for that then break expect things on systems10:26
rlinfatiStskeeps, to get via SSU..... but i going to reflash :D10:26
Stskeepsrlinfati: yeah, that's also possible there :P10:27
cehtehas i saied readonly small rootfs .. unionfs over it (or mount (bind-mount)) any volatile stuff in place10:27
Stskeepscehteh: debian OS'es are notoriously bad on unionfs10:28
goodwillit seems by default a lot of localazions are installed10:28
goodwillis it possible to limit that by default to 1 or 210:28
ruskieimo all localisations should be optional and default C strings should be provided10:29
* tigert tests update :)10:29
Stskeepsruskie: remember that real people are using this device too, not only beardy unix hackers that smell like dead cheese10:29
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goodwillruskie: I am looking at your repartition page10:29
goodwillStskeeps: its not dead ... the cheese is very much alive10:30
tybolltmmmmmm cheese10:30
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Stskeepsgoodwill: slightly mutated cheese then10:30
* micke has a beard but does not smell like dead cheese10:30
tybolltmmmmmm mutated cheese10:30
* tybollt drools10:30
ruskieStskeeps, lol... I don't smell like dead cheese or mutatated cheese as well10:30
rlinfaticheese, h-a-m....... now i'm hungry10:31
ruskieStskeeps, as for optional I meant they should be removable by those who want it... as it stands you can't remove all10:31
ruskiesome want to remove most of the core software10:31
goodwillI am currently not impressed with fennec10:32
ruskieon a side note... other than rescue mode(and what does that do exactly and how can one trigger it manually) any other reason not to use apt-get to update?10:32
goodwillI bet we will need a version or two till its less of hog10:32
ruskiegoodwill, so use the default one :)10:32
goodwillits still kick ass :)10:32
ruskieboth are gecko :)10:32
goodwillruskie: I am10:32
goodwillruskie: just commenting10:32
cehtehStskeeps: anything can be fixed ... my example was the eeepc .. xandros is also debian based10:33
ruskiehmm need jebba to roll a new fbcon kernel10:33
ruskiesans the logo10:33
* goodwill should try it out10:33
ruskieframebuffer console10:34
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goodwilltybollt: framebuffer console10:34
ruskieStskeeps, and yes I'm aware normal people are supposed to use the device... no reason to cripple it though for those of us who are advanced though... is there?10:34
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Stskeepsruskie: right, the only problem i see is with ssus10:35
BirdFlewgonna hold off on the update as i heard it can break flac/ogg support10:35
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BirdFlewplus i've hit my monthly download limit so wifi is painfully slow10:35
tigertruskie: there is a metapackage that depends on exact versions of other packages, remove that and you can uninstall shit10:36
tigertruskie: but then you are on your own with updates etc10:37
ruskietigert, I know mp-fremantle-generic-pr... I had to remove it to get rid of mediaplayer10:37
ruskieI wish everything that isn't critical to running the system would be optional for it10:37
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ruskieso that one could keep it installed but still be able to remove mediaplayer for example10:38
tybolltsomeone asked before...10:38
tybolltnot sure there was an answer10:38
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tigertmediaplayer is essential :)10:38
konttori_nokiaCorsac, rootfs has much faster writes and those are needed for the apt data chunks in /var10:38
tybolltthe changelog for this update is available ... ?10:38
tigertif you uninstall it you remove features10:38
ruskieI think nowhere10:38
ruskietigert, it's not essential to a running system10:38
tigertit is to "N900 device" feature list10:39
goodwillruskie: its essential to some folks :)10:39
ruskieI guess I can install it and modify the shortcut to be a nodisplay10:39
ruskieI use xmms2 for my media player10:39
ruskiemaybe I should make that pkg provide mediaplayer10:39
tigerta running system is a different thing than a working product10:39
konttori_nokiaruskie, you can edit that package to remove the dependency to media player10:39
goodwillruskie: kind like xterm to you10:39
ruskiekonttori_nokia, while it's installed? or by rolling my own or something else?10:40
Stskeepskonttori_nokia: interesting approach, it wouldn't damage SSUs10:40
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Stskeepsit would reinstall things on ssu but hey :P10:40
tigert"Operating system successfully updated" :)10:42
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rkc_hi all.. have anybody used Qt creator inside scratch box??10:43
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tigertham looked spartan10:44
rkc_I need an IDE for Qt development in scratbox for building and debugging10:44
tigertthree categories :)10:44
ruskieI got a large list of things I don't want to see in mp-fremantle-generic-pr... I take it I need to download the package unpack it... modify it and repack it?10:44
* tigert enables Extras10:44
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goodwillruskie: what does your git version of modest has in addition to the official one?10:47
ruskiegoodwill, with the tinymail provided IMAP IDLE10:47
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ruskiebut doesn't seem to work as it should... atleast no notifications work properly10:48
moo-_-ah... I smell an update in the air10:48
goodwilloh I see10:48
svanheulenis there a better image viewer for the n900? the default one sucks10:49
Oli``Nuts. I've got an update available for maemo5 but I can't install it because rootfs is 93% full. How do I claw back rootfs space? As far as I know, I don't have any non-optified things installed anymore (although I know I used to).10:49
goodwillOli``: clearing apt cache should cache10:49
RST38hOli: Remove applications.10:49
goodwillapt-cache autoclean10:50
tybolltsvanheulen: I want something akin to the one in HTC Sense :)10:50
Nitialreboot might help also cleaning icon-caches10:50
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tybolltgoodwill: nice trye bubba :)10:51
svanheulentybollt: never used htc sense... zooming is what i need, why the hell does an image viewer not allow zooming?10:51
tybolltgoodwill: apt-get autoclean :)10:51
Oli``Just rebooted - that got me 4% back but I'm still at 93%. apt-get clean/autoclean does nothing10:51
goodwilltybollt: what?10:51
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svanheuleneven feh would be better then this...10:53
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* Oli`` uninstalls everything10:54
goodwilltybollt: apt-get autoclean is not like rm -rf /10:54
tigertsvanheulen: what do you mean it doesnt zoom?10:54
goodwilltybollt: all it does is clean up apt cache10:55
ruskiesvanheulen, use the volume rocker to zoom10:55
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wazdhello maemo10:55
Stskeepshello wazd10:55
svanheulentigert: seriously?... i figured the volume rocker would, you know, change the volume...10:56
tigertwell, it doesnt read "volume"10:57
ruskieit's context based... which is rather annoying10:57
tigertit reads "+    -"10:57
ruskiechanges font size in terminal as well10:57
tigertit does zoom when an app supports zoom10:57
tigertotherwise it does volume10:57
phris it possible to use an n900 as a wifi hotspot?    (i.e. using 3g data)10:57
tigert(a good trick to quick volume change if you are in term is to ctrl-backspace, set volume, go back to term)10:58
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goodwillphr: I am pretty sure that that there was somehting about that on talk.maemo.org10:58
ruskietigert, yeah but it's unexpected behaviour10:58
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ruskieshould atleast be user configurable if nothing else10:59
tigertwell, you wanted zoom in image viewer10:59
tigertthere you have it10:59
svanheulentigert: ah good idea, i was just thinking how one would change volume while in an app that maps those buttons10:59
tigertui is always a compromise :P10:59
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tigertyeah, task switcher view is a handy "place" to adjust volume while doing something else11:00
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svanheulentigert: thanks for the info :)11:01
jayforddoes anyone know if nokia is going to release a changelog for the new firmware? or is this a secret?11:01
tigertkonttori_nokia: lunch+11:02
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Corsacjayford: I'm slighly considering finding and installing apt-listchanges11:02
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Corsacthough if updates are to be done with HAM it won't help11:03
Stskeepsjayford: it was pretty much stated before, changes to HAM for SSU purpose, changes to kernel to allow ubifs compression level changes11:03
Stskeepsjayford: it's a stepping stone to pr1.111:03
jayfordoh :(11:03
StskeepsHAM changes can be seen on maemo.gitorious.org11:03
jayfordwell I hope it fixes the reboot problems11:03
svanheulenbtw, where can you get the sources for maemo?11:03
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goodwillsvanheulen: you can get them now at mxr.maemo.org11:03
Stskeepssvanheulen: , and some garage project for the stuff that's open11:03
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svanheulencool, thanks11:04
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jayfordStskeeps: "kernel to allow ubifs compression level changes" - any chance this is the issue with the reboots?11:05
jayford"power saving timing tolerance thresholds of the OMAP3 CPU are too wide to handle for recent Linux kernels."11:06
Stskeepsjayford: i don't know until i've seen kernel source changelog11:06
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jayfordokay then I'll just test it myself. thanks :)11:06
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goodwillmaybe that will help the size of root partition11:06
Stskeepsjayford: either way the big changes should come in pr1.111:07
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goodwilljayford: what are you readin?11:07
jayfordyeah but meantime my battery is draining really fast11:07
svanheulenmy bigest bug is the the browser keeps crashing with 'internal erreor' lately, seemed to only happen after i installed firefox though11:08
goodwilljayford: no I mean the changset ...11:08
svanheulenanyone else having microb crah or is it just me?11:08
goodwilloh I see11:08
goodwillsvanheulen: it occasionally crashes on me when I have like 12 of them open11:08
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svanheulengoodwill: bah, it'll crash for me even if i have 1 window open :(11:09
goodwillI suspect that loading 12 webpages at them same time taxes the system too much11:10
svanheulenhaha yeah11:10
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mecesvanheulen, mi microb doesn't crash. I've had some windows stall and a menu asking if I want to close it pop up, but I don't think it has ever crashed.11:11
gour'm curious if n900-like device can be effective for e.g. ekiga/skype video-conferencing - the need is for providing counselling services over internet while being on the road - or is it better to travel around with some small netbook?11:12
goodwillI usually have that issue when the js on the page is too much11:12
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Stskeepsgour: video conferencing isn't up to par yet11:13
julianol1veri can no longer send or receive email, update eather or share with Ovi. i have a strong connection to my access point (pages load just fine in the browser) and have tried three different POP3(and IMAP4)/SMTP mail servers of mine. any ideas why this might be so?11:13
infobotjulianol1ver meant: i can no longer send or receive email, update weather or share with Ovi. i have a strong connection to my access point (pages load just fine in the browser) and have tried three different POP3(and IMAP4)/SMTP mail servers of mine. any ideas why this might...11:13
gourStskeeps: what is missing?11:13
Stskeepsgour: front camera isn't properly calibrated yet11:14
* frals mourns 12 days of n900 uptime with the 44-1 release11:14
svanheulengour: i think fring in the repositories lets you do skype video calls11:14
svanheulennever tried it though11:14
svanheulennormal skype calls work very well in my experiance though11:14
gourStskeeps: that's software issue only then?11:14
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svanheulengour: firmware issue i think11:15
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goursvanheulen: ok, but it means it can be useful in practice after all the issues are resolved. i'm interested if it is ok in concept 'cause it means that mostly eliminates my need for netbook. (video) calls & good emailing would be sufficient for my road use11:17
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svanheulengour: i think, eventually, yes it should work fine11:18
goursvanheulen: good. thanks for the input11:18
svanheulengour: only thing i would worry about is bandwidth if your going over callular data11:19
goursvanheulen: heh, that's right. i'm thinking about wifi for such use-case11:19
svanheulenthat works too11:20
schaschhello....i am testing with the scratchbox-maemo5...How can I get a console-terminal-GUI ?11:20
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schaschI do not find it...?11:20
schaschlookes/searches in all appications...11:21
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schaschimported already the Extra-Devel catalogue....11:22
ruskiefinally figured out how to get the https mp-fremantle-generic-pr deb... now I can actually modify it11:22
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wazdtimeless: around?11:22
goodwillyou got to admit ... the new app manager icons are pretty11:22
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wazdtimeless_mbp: heya11:23
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wazdtimeless_mbp: are you using Nuvo theme cause you like white themes? :)11:23
timeless_mbpi hate white themes11:24
timeless_mbpi'm using nuvo because it's different11:24
wazdtimeless_mbp: damn :)11:24
timeless_mbpand of the themes it's the first one i've found that doesn't suck11:24
goodwillruskie: what is mp-fremantle-generic-pr ?11:24
timeless_mbpwazd: hint: i'll try anything at least once11:24
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timeless_mbpand i'll probably use it for a week even while hating it11:24
timeless_mbpi'll also give reasonably helpful feedback to any theme11:24
wazdtimeless_mbp: even Marina suck? :(11:24
timeless_mbpnever seen marina11:25
timeless_mbpgoodwill: it's a meta package11:25
ruskiegoodwill, the meta package that has specific versions and so on11:25
timeless_mbpgoodwill: apt- is goal based11:25
timeless_mbpnokia's goal is to ship a single product with known form and function11:25
timeless_mbpas apt- is goal based, it's fairly easy to force the goals by writing a single file which pins the versions11:26
goodwillI see11:26
goodwillis that the "Maemo" package?11:26
ruskieiirc yes11:26
wazdtimeless_mbp: shots are a bit old, I don't have any new ones :)11:26
timeless_mbpi'd expect it is11:26
timeless_mbpwazd: for a white theme, you have an extremely black keyboard :)11:26
ruskienow just need to get a script to remove stuff that's on my removelist11:27
wazdtimeless_mbp: well, that's not wite theme, I was just planning to make one11:27
* timeless_mbp was going to write a package which would build packages to remove things11:27
ruskietimeless_mbp, erm?11:27
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ruskieyou mean noop packages?11:27
timeless_mbpruskie: roughly11:27
ruskiewould be acceptable as well11:27
timeless_mbpnot precisely11:27
timeless_mbpmy package would create a repository with dummy packages11:28
ruskiethat would work11:28
wazdStskeeps: btw, if you can send me some shots with Marina for tmo thread - that would be nice :)11:28
timeless_mbpwhich in preinst would package up the things they're replacing11:28
timeless_mbpand add them to the repository11:28
timeless_mbpand would use dependency magic so that when you uninstall my dummies, the real things would be resurrected from the repository :)11:28
wazdStskeeps: cause those shots are a bit outdated11:28
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goodwilloh nice ... xchat is in testing11:28
ruskieI'll probably just provide my own custom mp-fremantle-generic-pr with the stuff I don't want set to optional11:28
timeless_mbpwazd: is 0.85 current?11:28
wazdtimeless_mbp: yep11:29
dnaumovI am dissapointed, the new Maemo update didnt even kill my dog11:29
wazdtimeless_mbp: but it has messed conversations :D11:29
ruskiednaumov, and I even updated using dist-upgrade and not HAM :)11:29
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ruskiesupposedly that's scary or something11:29
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inzdnaumov, but it ate your uptimez!11:29
timeless_mbpdnaumov: new maemo update?11:30
ruskietimeless_mbp, yup11:30
ruskieor whatever it is11:30
ifrequpdating ->11:30
timeless_mbp1.0.1 is a bridge11:30
timeless_mbpit's basically supposed to fix ham and whatever else so that 1.1 can actually install11:31
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: yes, a 18,5mb update, no major changes, apparently its basically to prep the device for the major 1.1 update to be installable OTA11:31
timeless_mbpdnaumov: oh, i know what it is :)11:31
timeless_mbpi just didn't know it happened11:31
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timeless_mbpdnaumov: i work for Nokia11:31
goodwillthat does it mean to fix ham?11:31
timeless_mbpbut i get my news from my parents and this irc channel :)11:32
timeless_mbpit could be that ham's algs were unfortunate11:32
timeless_mbpor that ham's process/timing was bad11:32
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dnaumovtimeless_mbp: poor sod, i work for Elisa ;)11:32
timeless_mbpall i know is the general bit of an explanation that i paid attn to months ago11:32
timeless_mbpdnaumov: that reminds me11:32
timeless_mbpis Welho open for business at this hour?11:32
timeless_mbpbecause i need to yell at them11:32
timeless_mbptheir TV service fell apart last week11:33
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: no idea, probably11:33
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ifreqdnaumov: you mean its not sad to work for Elisa? ;/11:33
dnaumovifreq: er, no :)11:33
ifreq<- Fujitsu :-)11:33
timeless_mbpifreq: i think it's fairly safe to say that if you work in HEL or .fi you deserve much sympathy11:33
ifreqtimeless_mbp: cmon :D11:34
timeless_mbpifreq: and probably will need therapy for the rest of your life11:34
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julianol1vertimeless_mbp: i agree, it is quite SADD really.11:34
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dnaumovifreq: I've had 2 people I know switch from Elisa to Fujitsu and both later said the grass wasn't any greener11:34
julianol1verthat said, Berlin's not a heap better.11:34
timeless_mbpjulianol1ver: and that :)11:34
ifreqdnaumov: yeah was just teasing :)11:35
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andre__hmm, software updates.11:36
* timeless_mbp installs marina11:36
timeless_mbpandre__: where's our status update on what happened to bugzilla?11:36
timeless_mbp!summon WAZD11:36
timeless_mbphis deb didn't install11:36
andre__timeless_mbp, I have other problems currently.11:37
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* timeless_mbp goes back to crashing libraries11:37
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timeless_mbpthis function i found calls a function which tries to load a library and gets 5 entry points11:37
timeless_mbpthe class safely null checks 4 of those entry points11:37
BirdFlewdoes the n900 charge any faster in either mass storage or pc suite mode? or does that not make any difference?11:37
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ruskiegoes back to disecting and generating a new mp-fremantle-generic-pr11:37
timeless_mbpunfortunately... that last entry point is used unconditionally after the call to load the library11:38
timeless_mbpruskie: do it my way11:38
timeless_mbpplease :)11:38
timeless_mbpruskie: dpkg-deb is your friend11:38
ruskietimeless_mbp, to much work11:38
timeless_mbpit's much much better11:38
ruskietimeless_mbp, also I seriously hate the debian packaging stuff11:38
timeless_mbpruskie: but you can use it in the future11:38
ruskieit's a bunch of hacks11:38
lcukBirdFlew, i dont think it matters, fastest charging of all though is total offline + screen off + no busy apps :)11:38
timeless_mbpoh, believe me, i hate deb packaging more than you11:38
Oli``Is the OTA maemo5 package update any different from the PC Suite Firmware update?11:38
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timeless_mbpOli``: the firmware update is going to fry your entire file system11:39
timeless_mbpover the air updates shouldn't do that11:39
timeless_mbphe asked!11:39
ruskietimeless_mbp, I have no clue how to do it your way11:39
timeless_mbpruskie: i'll walk you through the whole process :)11:39
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ruskieand I wouldn't do any pre-packaging11:39
BirdFlewthanks lcuk11:40
Oli``timeless_mbp: sure but are they essentially the same thing with different installation techniques?11:40
ruskieI'd just replace it... and then a user can always reinstall it from nokia-binaries11:40
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timeless_mbpruskie: um11:40
timeless_mbpwe don't have 'nokia-binaries'11:40
ruskieyou mean by default?11:40
timeless_mbpwe do *not* expose them through a repository11:40
ruskiedeb fremantle/HASH nokia-binaries11:40
ruskieso what's this then?11:41
timeless_mbpsomething i've never seen before? :)11:41
timeless_mbpbut officially it shouldn't exist :)11:41
Stskeepsruskie: token repos for SKD11:41
dnaumovifreq: admittedly, I would consider fujitsu if I'd get to play with sparc and big iron11:41
ifreqwhy sim auth is not accepting numbers from keybad?  :P11:41
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: magic11:41
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ifreqdnaumov: yeah, tho thats with fuji siemens then11:41
timeless_mbpifreq: because someone got cute/clever11:41
ruskieStskeeps, still should work on the device... it's the same stuff isn't it?11:42
ifreqtimeless_mbp: yeah definitely11:42
Stskeepsruskie: you can reinstall it through your SSU repo, and no11:42
timeless_mbpand i haven't had enough time/energy to get konttori to lean on whichever idiot did that wrong11:42
timeless_mbpifreq: if there isn't a public bug, please fix it11:42
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infobottimeless_mbp meant: ifreq: if there isn't a public bug, please fix that11:42
ifreqtimeless_mbp: it isnt a bug, its a lacking feature11:42
ruskieStskeeps, erm...??? the ssu/mr0 | ssu/apps ?11:42
ifreqi guess11:42
timeless_mbpifreq: it's a bug.11:42
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Stskeepsruskie: mr011:42
ifreqtimeless_mbp: ah ffs :(11:42
timeless_mbpifreq: a numeric entry field should allow entering numbers from the keyboard <period>11:43
timeless_mbpany spec saying otherwise is BUGGY11:43
ruskieStskeeps, hmm no11:43
ruskieatleast from what I can tell11:43
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Stskeepsruskie: apt-cache search?11:43
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timeless_mbpifreq: get the bug filed, i'll work w/ konttori about finding someone to fix that11:43
ruskieStskeeps, example: Filename: ./modest_3.0.17-rc66+0m5_armel.deb11:43
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ruskieif you remove that without nokia-binaries you can't reinstall it11:43
timeless_mbpruskie: i'd suspect modest is in the sdk11:44
ruskietons of packages only have a ./ filename11:44
timeless_mbpwhich makes it a terrible example11:44
ifreqtimeless_mbp: hmm okay, i need to learn first how bugs are filed right way :)11:44
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Stskeepsruskie: SSU repo used to contain the whole OS11:44
ifreqtimeless_mbp: i just thought its lacking feature11:44
goodwillhow do I do function keys on N90011:44
goodwilllike F10 ?11:44
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timeless_mbpgoodwill: out of the box, you don't11:44
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Stskeepsruskie: apt-cache search modest says what?11:44
timeless_mbpwhere do you need them?11:44
timeless_mbpruskie: do note that your repository layout can be as confused as you like11:45
ruskieStskeeps, only shows two installation candidates here... the one in my own nonopt repo and the one in ./11:45
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ruskieneed to try something11:45
* timeless_mbp grumbles11:45
ruskieanyway if all of those are available where they should be then no need to pre-package it11:46
ruskiejust reinstall from the official repo11:46
ruskieon removal11:46
Stskeepsruskie: . is sane11:46
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goodwill_xchat on maemo is kinda usable11:46
Stskeepsruskie: that's from SSU repo11:46
ruskieI remembered11:47
timeless_mbpnot everything exists in ssu11:47
ruskiewhat is missing?11:47
ruskieand why?11:47
timeless_mbpanything that hasn't been _updated_11:47
timeless_mbpthat's the 'u' in ssu11:47
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: mr0 exists and that's not a ssu :P11:47
ruskieso the entire OS does NOT exist then11:47
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timeless_mbpruskie: the entire OS exists! it's on your device =b11:48
timeless_mbpthat's rich. calling something in your hands vaporware =b11:48
ruskieI know after I removed modest the first time with only the ssu/mr0 repos I couldn't get modest back other than adding nokia-binaries11:48
timeless_mbpdnaumov: does everyone insist on interrupting their elevator music to say "you're still on hold"11:48
timeless_mbpand if so, *WHY*11:48
ruskietimeless_mbp, because they wan't to provide a proper "service" ;)11:49
* RST38h moos at wazd11:50
Stskeepsruskie: i have modest in apt-cache search :P11:50
ruskieStskeeps, yeah now that an update is available11:50
* timeless_mbp grumbles11:51
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lcukanyone know off hand what the console foo is to list the size of all folders11:51
ruskielcuk, all where?11:52
ruskiein current dir?11:52
ruskiedu -hsc *11:52
ruskietends to work11:52
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hrwvote for bug #779711:52
povbot`Bug Bugs got lost during server move?11:52
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rlinfatiWoW red pill mode donot work on pr 1.0.1 :(11:53
lcukthx ruskie11:53
lcukhey hrw11:53
lcukhow many missing?11:53
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goodwillno red pill on flinfati11:54
goodwillhmmm time for aptitude then11:54
ruskieStskeeps, I disable ssu repo and now modest has no installation source11:54
hrwgoodwill: if you will find version which will work11:55
ruskieso not everything is in mr011:55
rlinfatigoodwill apt-get... aptitude is not in the device11:55
andre__hrw, what will voting on bug 7797 change?11:55
timeless_mbpso help.11:55
andre__nice, red pill finally dead? yay.11:55
andre__timeless_mbp, who do you talk to?11:55
goodwillof course its pre alpha11:55
hrwandre__: probably nothing but I use votes as mechanism of 'I want this bug to be fixed too'11:55
* goodwill liked red pill11:55
timeless_mbpsome idiot in the welho call center11:55
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andre__hrw: see the corresponding comments at
andre__timeless_mbp, same for you ^11:56
hrwtwitter, identica, qaiku, facebook, gsgwe,gerer,qw325723,...,wet2352 - how may socials we have?11:57
* mece never saw the point of "red pill mode"11:57
* rlinfati liked "matrix mode"11:57
hrwmece: neither did I - apt-get works much better11:57
mecehrw, exactly!11:58
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* lcuk joins a social networking network, ive added 47 networks this morning!11:58
* timeless_mbp sighs11:58
goodwill_apt-cache is a lousy11:58
timeless_mbpwhat the ****11:58
goodwill_apt-cache is lousy11:58
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timeless_mbpthis idiot insists my "antenna cable" needs to be changed annually11:59
timeless_mbpwhat kind of crap is this?11:59
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: not annually, but every 3-5 years is a good idea11:59
hrwtime to report bug then: add support for qaiku to conversations11:59
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timeless_mbpdnaumov: why?11:59
hrwor sth like that?11:59
mecegoodwill, what does red pill have to do with apt-cache?11:59
timeless_mbpi never had to do this in the states11:59
timeless_mbpdnaumov: besides, i had someone else last night indicate they had the same problem12:00
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goodwill_i find it easier to browse thru packages using the apt manager12:00
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: copper loses its signal transfer capability over time, the longer the cable, the faster it reaches the threshhold of being noticable to the user12:00
goodwill_aplication manager12:00
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goodwill_then to use apt-cache to search12:00
ruskiegoodwill_, browsing != searching12:00
ruskietwo completl different operations12:01
timeless_mbpgoodwill: s/apt manager/app manager/12:01
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: I am not saying YOUR issue right now is a cable issue, I have no idea, but in general, that idea is correct :)12:01
ruskiednaumov, hmm interesting12:01
ruskieabout copper cables12:01
goodwill_ruskie: apt does not have good category browsing12:01
timeless_mbpdnaumov: can i sue them for the cost of the cable if they're wrong?12:01
timeless_mbpwhat would it take to prove it isn't the cable12:02
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dnaumovtimeless_mbp: of course not, they however can and will bill you if they send an enginner over to your place and engineer isolates the problem to be on your premises :)12:02
timeless_mbpshort of buying a new one12:02
timeless_mbpif i have 1 channel that works, is that sufficient?12:02
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dnaumovcould very well be a damage cable case where multiple MUXes are affected12:03
timeless_mbpdnaumov: yeah, 50eur12:03
ruskiehmm stupid policy to bill it12:03
timeless_mbpal things considered12:03
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timeless_mbpi'm tempted to pay the 50eur12:03
timeless_mbpit's better than walking to the stupid store to buy the cable12:03
dnaumovruskie: not really, even when billed, its still a loss for the provider12:03
timeless_mbpwill they at least provide me with the cable?12:03
wazdRST38h: heya12:03
timeless_mbpdnaumov: ooh, they lose money even when billing?12:03
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timeless_mbpso i should make them do it, just for that12:03
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: yes12:03
ruskiednaumov, well here I don't get billed for such things as a get an engineer overe here to check this malfunctioning connection12:04
timeless_mbpsounds like a good deal to me12:04
timeless_mbpwill they replace the cable too?12:04
ruskieI would get billed for materialls if they replaced something that I owned instead of had on rent from them12:04
timeless_mbpyeah, that's the way it works in sane places12:04
ruskiebut then a coax cable is cheap enough to replace12:05
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timeless_mbpruskie: it costs more if it's winter outside12:05
Stskeepswazd: got an hour to help me with some CSS to pretty-fy a rather ugly html page?12:05
dnaumovtimeless_mbp / ruskie: for example if you have an ADSL problem and call your ISP in Finland, ISP sends and engineer over, engineer locates the problem to be non-ISP related (for example phone cable, modem, etc). End customer is billed 80 euro for the bullshit engineer call. ISP is still at a loss, because ISP is billed over 100 eur for the gig by the engineering subcontractor.12:05
timeless_mbpplus i'd have to go to the store, buy a measuring tape12:05
ruskieahh this is an outside connection?12:05
timeless_mbpdnaumov: nice12:05
Arkenoi44.1 is released?12:05
timeless_mbpArkenoi: someone should topic it12:05
timeless_mbpbut don't get excited12:06
timeless_mbpit isn't a feature upgrade12:06
timeless_mbpit's a bridge to a feature upgrade12:06
konttori_nokiatimeless_mbp, ifreq : get what fixed?12:06
ruskiesure it is... HAM has nice icons12:06
timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: your color.css file and the generator are busted12:06
konttori_nokialemme know the bug # and I'll try get it sorted out12:06
Arkenoitimeless_mbp, but it is unavailable as "live" update still12:06
timeless_mbpthe pin input thing12:06
timeless_mbppin input doesn't accept hardware keyboard for numeric input12:06
ruskieArkenoi, it is available12:06
Arkenoido not see it via application manager12:07
timeless_mbpis a fixed css theme file12:07
ruskieprobably not yet available for your location12:07
timeless_mbpplease pull it in and fix theme maker12:07
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: reported it earlier this morning, too :)12:07
timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: roughly your css rules are <Background> {color: foo; }12:07
konttori_nokiatimeless_mbp, ah, the colors css. Yeah, planning to fix it in the evening.12:07
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timeless_mbpcool :)12:07
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* timeless_mbp goes back to trying to figure out what the heck to do with these stupid cables12:08
timeless_mbpdnaumov: so... erm12:08
konttori_nokiaI have ugly code that changes the colors and I think it has hardcoded part for the {color:12:08
timeless_mbpis the copper degrading with time?12:08
konttori_nokia(and thus not for {background:12:08
wazdStskeeps: well, lets try :)12:08
timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: "background-color" please12:08
Arkenoiruskie: what should i do to get it (reflash is not an option)?12:08
ruskieArkenoi, wait a day?12:08
hrwhmm.. here upgrading to 1.0.1 enabled 'nokia nseries' theme instead of 'ditigal nature' which was enabled12:08
Arkenoiah ;-)12:08
timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: also, your dark gray in the mail headers is too dark against black text12:09
wazdkonttori_nokia: and something is very wrong with RSS applet skin btw12:09
Stskeepswazd: hmm, let me just upload my latest version12:09
konttori_nokiayeah, it is. I agree12:09
konttori_nokiawazd, I know.12:09
konttori_nokiawazd, I will fix that also.12:09
wazdkonttori_nokia: I can't specify what exactly but it definitely is :D12:09
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timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: did you see my comment about the bad contrast for the tiny white icons?12:10
timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: btw, your icons overall are awesome12:10
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konttori_nokiaI did. And won't probably do much about it for a while. You see, the current icons are nokia copyright12:10
konttori_nokiaso, I would need to completely re-create them12:10
konttori_nokiawhich would take time12:10
* timeless_mbp nods12:10
* ruskie is happy with his modded digital nature theme12:11
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ruskiefinally a device with a themeing setup where I don't need an app to actually modify or create themes12:12
inzhow do i get google calendar to show the real ui instead of the sucky mobile one12:12
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ruskiemaybe override the browser user-agent to not send maemo/n900 ?12:12
meceI updated rootsh and now rootsh command is gone :( oh well.12:12
ruskiethat helped me for atleast one site12:12
ruskiemece, erm? gainroot ? root ?12:12
meceruskie, yeah but rootsh worked like sudo.12:13
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Stskeepssudo gainroot12:13
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ruskiegainroot does as well iir12:13
timeless_mbprootsh was removed12:14
timeless_mbpit was decided iiuc that it was a security vulnerability waiting to happen12:14
ruskieI wish apps didn't remove custom modifications in /etc/sudoers12:14
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timeless_mbpruskie: um12:15
ruskieno comment on that kind of thinking12:15
timeless_mbpuse /etc/sudoers.d/ like everyone else12:15
timeless_mbpthat's what i do12:15
timeless_mbp /etc/sudoers.d/custom....12:15
ruskiewasn't even aware of it12:15
timeless_mbpmost likely the apps weren't even aware of your changes and just ran update-sudoers12:15
timeless_mbpwhich stepped on your unregistered (bogus) changes12:15
* timeless_mbp wonders if sudoers has "# this is a generated file, do not edit"12:16
timeless_mbpdnaumov: right, so about these stupid cables12:16
timeless_mbpare you basically saying i should take all my copper cables and recycle them now12:16
timeless_mbpso i don't confuse myself?12:16
timeless_mbpthe guy also claimed that my cables shouldn't exceed 4m12:17
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timeless_mbpin case people are curious12:17
timeless_mbpthe reason tablet-browser-controls is updated is this:12:17
timeless_mbpOvi demands that they can uniquely identify each version of system software12:18
timeless_mbpso they can provide custom content12:18
inzruskie, yeah that helped; was hoping for some other, cleaner solution12:18
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: plug to TV or plug to cable modem recommended lengh is 0,5 - 1,5m12:18
timeless_mbpdnaumov: and what if my cable box isn't .5m from the hole in my wall?12:18
timeless_mbpam i supposed to hide it under my desk?12:18
timeless_mbpwhat kind of stupid thing is this12:18
timeless_mbp(please understand my anger)12:19
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: it's called laws of physics in my circles :)12:19
ruskieI've got 20m of coax to my cable modem from the wall... and from the wall to the box another 20m12:19
* Jaffa boggles at the WONTFIX comment on bug 7263.12:19
povbot`Bug Media player uses space as artist name when looking up artwork12:19
timeless_mbpdnaumov: customers don't really care about the laws of physics12:19
timeless_mbpother than the ones that talk about "infrared wavelengths do not go through wood"12:19
ruskietimeless_mbp, you sure about that? ;)12:20
ruskiethat's why they sell all these various sorts of: put this here to control a device in a wodden box devices12:20
timeless_mbpand the corollary: you can't use the remote to reach the cable box if its ir port isn't usefully exposed12:20
Jaffakonttori_nokia: So much for the MediaArtSpec, eh?
povbot`Bug 7263: Media player uses space as artist name when looking up artwork12:20
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rlinfatiWow 400000 spam mail on my yahoo inbox.....12:22
ruskiehmm don't think I still have a usable yahoo mailbox12:22
timeless_mbpJaffa: specs don't matter12:22
timeless_mbponly managers12:22
timeless_mbpfwiw, i've actually heard the explanation for that bug12:23
timeless_mbpJaffa: i'd suggest buying a media player that is made by a company with a respectable music record12:23
timeless_mbpi can't think of many, but i suppose Apple might qualify12:23
timeless_mbpmaybe they'll port iTunes to the n900?12:24
Jaffatimeless_mbp: I'm not in a happy Maemo mood, what with the packaging cock ups on bug 7742 as well.12:24
povbot`Bug Apps depending on libqt4-phonon won't install on 2.2009.51-112:24
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Jaffatimeless_mbp: Short version: new Qt versions will be pushed when PR 1.1 is out. This shows some kind of lack of knowledge as to what a apt & dpkg can allow.12:24
timeless_mbpJaffa: i can't say i'm shocked12:25
ruskieJaffa, no it shows how nokia thinks they should work12:25
timeless_mbpbut i'd suggest instead of looking at it that way12:25
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ruskieJaffa, read up on the HAM stuff and you'll understand... I do now12:25
timeless_mbpyou look at it from a "can i give them cookie cutter code that would do what they need"12:25
timeless_mbpbecause these are cookie cutter monkeys12:25
timeless_mbpif you give them something they can copy and paste which would work, they might just use it12:25
Nitialany ideas if the media player should understand h264/aac rtsp stream?12:25
ruskietimeless_mbp, sad but true12:26
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timeless_mbpdnaumov: right so...12:26
timeless_mbpi have one cable channel which is working fine right now12:27
timeless_mbpand you're saying that doesn't prove anything12:27
timeless_mbpwell, mostly fine12:27
timeless_mbpone minor glitch in 1 minute12:27
timeless_mbpvs. 90-95% blocky constantly12:27
ruskiehmm sounds like DVB-C or something along those lines... i.e. digital instead of analog12:28
timeless_mbp(channel seems to be 499? something in some random stupid language, swedish?)12:28
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: correct, it doesnt really say anything, there are over 15 different MUXes in our network (probably similar in Welho's) and specific MUXes being broken can mean either a network issue or a bent/damaged cable12:28
timeless_mbpruskie: oh, i'm pretty sure all of my content is digital12:28
timeless_mbpdnaumov: ok, back to my original problem12:28
timeless_mbpok, now the channel i'm watching is stuttering12:29
timeless_mbpdnaumov: but i can't claim that intermittent problems must be upstream?12:29
timeless_mbp.. back to the earlier question12:29
timeless_mbpshould i just recycle all of my copper12:29
timeless_mbpso that i don't have other cables lying around12:29
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: the cable is like 5eur or less, replace it, if problem persists, order the engineer from Welho12:29
timeless_mbpsince they would have "hypothetically" degraded12:29
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timeless_mbpdnaumov: it requires going outside!12:30
ruskieonline order?12:30
ruskieand have it delivered12:30
timeless_mbpdoes verkokauppa deliver on 5eur?12:30
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timeless_mbpdnaumov: i'm still trying to figure out this 0.5-1.5m nonsense12:30
Jaffaruskie: But PR1.1 has a separate apps repository available.12:31
timeless_mbproughly that means i can't have my cable box where it's sitting12:31
ruskieJaffa, ???12:31
timeless_mbpit might even mean i need a different length scart cable or different length fiber-audio cable12:31
rlinfatiwhat are the -zhhk stuff on extras-devel ?12:32
dnaumovtimeless_mbp: blame whoever placed the antenna plugs in your apartment or whoever decided the placement of your furniture :)12:32
ruskiechinese/hong kong localisation?+12:32
timeless_mbpthe antenna plug is in the corner of the apt12:32
timeless_mbpthe furniture placement is mine12:32
timeless_mbprlinfati: / ruskie : yes12:33
timeless_mbphowever, they're in murky waters at this time12:33
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timeless_mbpso i wouldn't rely on that until we get some stuff sorted out12:33
rlinfatiis ugly.... why show only a meta-package with -zhhk stuff ?12:33
* timeless_mbp is waiting to hear back from someone who is waiting to hear back from someone12:33
timeless_mbprlinfati: eh?12:33
ruskiehe means show only a metapackage for it12:34
Jaffaruskie: The conclusion makes no sense (even taking into account HAM's apt-ish algorithms) because there's a separate dmnc/fremantle/ssu/apps/ AFAICT12:34
timeless_mbpruskie: oh, send them an email suggesting the other packages should not be user/*12:34
ruskieI thought they were unlike-apt-ish12:34
* ruskie wonders when he'll be able to use LC_TIME=en_DK to have all time displayed in ISO format12:35
timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: the application-manager search packages dialog is unusable in your theme12:36
timeless_mbpit's black text on dark gray background12:36
ruskiehmm my pr1.1 upgrade ought to be fun with all the mods I have in event.d and init.d12:36
timeless_mbprlinfati: so about the zhhk stuff12:36
timeless_mbphaving actually done this once for diablo and friends12:37
timeless_mbpthe problem is that you can't know which packages the user has installed12:37
timeless_mbpforcing them to install packages they don't use, doesn't work well12:37
timeless_mbpshowing them all the packages also, obviously, doesn't work well12:37
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Jaffaruskie: I was damning with faint praise ;-)12:37
timeless_mbpyou can see enus1/engb1 in diablo extras-devel for comparison12:37
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timeless_mbprlinfati: you can look at my n900 enus1/engb1 for comparison to see how i solved it12:38
timeless_mbpmy solution for fremantle is imo much better12:38
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timeless_mbpbut i don't want them reinventing that either12:38
timeless_mbpi'd like them to just use my solution (or a variant thereof)12:38
xorAxAxruskie: man diff12:39
timeless_mbpanyway, until we get out of the murky waters, none of us should be investing much time on it12:39
timeless_mbp1. diff isn't installed12:40
timeless_mbp2. man isn't installed12:40
timeless_mbp3. docpurge is installed12:40
ruskiexorAxAx, ?12:40
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: :-P12:40
timeless_mbp4. i doubt he kept backups of the originals, so nothing to diff against12:40
ruskietimeless_mbp, I can always get them back :)12:40
timeless_mbphe should have used rsync to a zfs snapshotted volume12:40
timeless_mbpthen he could diff against the snapshot on a non lame os12:40
ruskieit's easy to unpack the rootfs from the fiasco image12:40
ruskiediff is availabli in extras12:41
ccookeGood Morning12:41
rlinfatiruskie, how you unpack the ubifs ?12:41
ruskieand I actually have all modifications in a script so I actually know what needs to be modded12:41
inzis there a way to add aliases to email app?12:41
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timeless_mbpas in a group to send messages to?12:42
ruskierlinfati, enable ubifs support(wherever that is) and mount loop it12:42
* timeless_mbp grumbles12:42
* timeless_mbp kicks oggsupport12:42
inzso i could send from other addresses12:42
timeless_mbpit restarted my media daemons more than once12:42
timeless_mbpinz: oh, heh12:42
timeless_mbp"forget about it" ;-b12:42
timeless_mbpthat's so not an end user task12:42
ruskiehappyily listens to oggs and flacs and wavpacks etc... using xmms2 on the n90012:42
timeless_mbpupgrade to gmail :)12:42
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konttori_nokiatimeless_mbp, thanks for the report. I'll check it out in the evening (damn, lots of things to do in the evening... might not be able to do all)12:43
ruskieI Think he wants multiple indentities12:43
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timeless_mbpi know the feeling12:43
inztimeless, but gmail doesnt wake me up in the middle of the night to let me know my library loans expire in a week12:43
timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: if at some point you want to switch to a bug based system, let me know12:43
timeless_mbpinz: google calendar sends me sms's12:43
inzruskie, indeed12:43
ruskiegah... really wish there was a mailer-switcher12:43
ruskiethen I could finally dump modest and use alpine on the device12:44
timeless_mbpruskie: does alpine not suck on mobile?12:44
timeless_mbpmy experience w/ linux apps is:12:44
timeless_mbp1. they suck12:44
timeless_mbp2. they're much worse on mobile platforms12:44
ruskiewhy would it suck? and why would it be worse than that $#$$@# called modest12:44
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LinuxCode3. you just fail ?12:44
timeless_mbpruskie: modest doesn't try to do much12:45
timeless_mbpand w/ MfE, it /almost/ works12:45
ruskieand all I really need from it is to be able to click on a a malito anywhere on the device and launch a composer12:45
timeless_mbpminus about 20 bugs12:45
timeless_mbp(i can list them if people care)12:45
rlinfatithe ovi stuff is not optifiqued? ( installing hildon-theme-wordcity... )12:46
timeless_mbprlinfati: you expect ovi to have useful quality controls? :)12:47
timeless_mbpovi probably offers FREEDOM ;-b12:47
hrwbtw - where maemo theme maker is available for download?12:47
ruskiegarage iirc12:48
timeless_mbpoh hey, is bounce available yet?12:48
timeless_mbplast i tried, i lost bounce12:48
* rlinfati dpkg -P hildon-theme-wordcity12:48
timeless_mbpwhich made my christmas demos very unbouncy :(12:49
hrwgot it12:49
konttori_nokiais wordcity still in the ovi store?12:49
hrwkonttori_nokia: can you update theme maker page a bit?12:49
rlinfatikonttori_nokia, yes...12:49
ruskiehmm I wonder how many people will actually use Ovi with the N90012:49
konttori_nokiahrw: you mean, like totally update it?12:49
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rlinfatikonttori_nokia, Version: 5.13.1-112:50
ruskiemaybe Pizero for the premium themes... wonder what else12:50
hrwkonttori_nokia: even replace is with info which version exists and what targets12:50
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hrwkonttori_nokia: when I got to page I thought "theme maker is for 770 only"12:50
timeless_mbpbtw, does theme maker still support 770?12:51
timeless_mbpbecause the readme for thememaker was incredibly confused12:51
timeless_mbpor i should say readmes, iirc there were 3, each w/ totally contradictory info12:51
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wazdStskeeps: have you sent something yet? :)12:53
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Stskeepswazd: no, i decided i needed to do some additional changes to the thing :P12:53
wazdStskeeps: ah, oke12:53
alteregoThis site looks pretty fishy:
rlinfatiDescription: FTP photo, video, audio and file Uploader <- cool....12:55
pupnikwhere rlinfati12:55
Stskeepssomething useful? :o12:55
* rlinfati looking all ovi stuff12:55
timeless_mbpalterego: 430 usd does seem a bit cheap12:55
Stskeeps(where's my sharing-service-scp)12:55
timeless_mbpStskeeps: i keep asking for that12:56
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pupnikyou in uk alterego12:57
pupnikthat is a bit too cheap it seems12:57
ruskie <-- hmm would be nice to have an app for this...12:58
hrwkonttori_nokia: so now, when pr 1.0.1 got released - any infos for pr 1.1?12:59
* ccooke notes that, according to maemotalk, nothing notable has happened in the maemo community in the last seven weeks...12:59
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* rlinfati installing sharing-service-youtube and removing qik.....13:00
konttori_nokiahrw, not yet, but expect to hear a date in the next few days13:02
Stskeeps If u r developer, be aware that Red Pill mode is gone after #N900 44-1 update. To prevent installing packages missing required dependencies'13:03
slonopotamusoh my13:04
slonopotamusfremantle update arrived13:04
pillarjust updated mine13:04
GAN900Good bye Red Pill and good riddance.13:04
Stskeepscould someone with PR1.0.1 dpkg -l getbootstate for me?13:04
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hrwStskeeps: same ver13:05
Stskeepsas in pr1.0?13:05
hrwStskeeps: 1.0.35+0m513:05
hrwStskeeps: it was not part of 44.113:05
Stskeepsyeah, i assumed13:05
Stskeepsjust checking if bootmenu patcher would fail with 44.1 so13:05
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hrwamazing  - brainstorm page got loaded after few days13:06
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* slonopotamus waits a couple of days with updating to see how it breaks for others :P13:09
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puroresuHey there. Just got me new N900, can't seem to connect to extras-devel to get dependency packages for DrNokSnes. Is there a problem?13:12
hrwthx konttori_nokia13:12
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smaugthere was some OS update to N90013:14
smaugbut still no working email client :(13:15
redeemanStskeeps: red pill mode?13:15
Stskeepssmaug: PR1.0.1, stepping stone to PR1.113:15
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timeless_mbpsmaug: it's a bridge13:15
cehtehsmaug: claws13:15
timeless_mbpi think i mentioned it to you earlier :)13:15
smaugtimeless_mbp: ah, this is the bridge you mentioned13:15
cehtehbit pita to use because its not hildonized, but it works at least13:15
xorAxAx12:15:18 -!- Irssi: New peak in #maemo@freenode : 52513:15
timeless_mbpStskeeps: red pill is really gone?13:16
smaugtimeless_mbp: I assume 1.1 is coming pretty soon then13:16
timeless_mbpsmaug: *shrug*13:16
timeless_mbpi found out about 1.0.1's release from people in this channel13:16
timeless_mbpthat's how i get my news :)13:16
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slonopotamusxorAxAx: 526 :)13:16
hrw is fun13:17
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hrwhildon-desktop HEAD has it solved but PR 1.3 will be probably first with this function ;(13:17
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smaugtimeless_mbp: btw, there is a bug in the update process. Theming gets messed13:18
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hrwsmaug: same here13:18
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timeless_mbpsmaug: tell konttori_nokia ;-)13:20
timeless_mbphe's much more of a manager13:20
timeless_mbp has 18 pages of comments about it13:21
timeless_mbpor maybe it has 24 pages?13:21
timeless_mbp(and i'm on page 9)13:21
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slonopotamussmaug: too late :) it's already landing on zillions of n900s :)13:23
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smaugI wonder how well n900 has sold so far. At least in Finland I've seen it quite often13:24
Stskeepsit's all the nokia employees who no longer have to hide their n900s? ;p13:25
smaugand heard stories how people have almost moved from using laptop to using n90013:25
fluxstskeeps, obviously they are hiding their n920's now or something ;)13:25
smaugyeah, there are few thousands Nokia employees in Helsinki area :)13:26
Stskeepsflux: n920 attaches to your skin and enhances your abilities ;)13:26
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VDVsxso, is everyone happy now that we've the first fw update ? :D13:29
* VDVsx doubts13:29
wazdVDVsx: just saw engadget's post bout BM, cool :)13:29
VDVsxwazd, old news :p13:30
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StskeepsVDVsx: i'm starting to realize why nokia doesn't announce exact dates cos people get pissy when a deadline passes ;)13:30
wazdVDVsx: well, I was away :)13:30
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ccookeVDVsx: firmware update?13:30
ccookeshould that appear OTA?13:31
VDVsxStskeeps, they announced some sort of deadline at the summit13:31
VDVsxccooke, I guess so, I've pr1.1 so didn't received any update as expected13:32
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VDVsxoh 24 pages at tmo about the new fw o_013:33
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ccookehmm. No OTA update available for me. Bah!13:33
timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: is cute13:34
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VDVsxtimeless_mbp, are you reading tmo ? :D13:35
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* VDVsx hides :D13:35
* timeless_mbp frowns13:35
timeless_mbpsomething strange is going on w/ my debugger13:35
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* timeless_mbp ponders13:39
timeless_mbppeople are <2m tall, right?13:39
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Most people13:39
timeless_mbpso a 1m cable will give me roughly the vertical height of a desk13:39
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timeless_mbpbut essentially nothing more13:39
* timeless_mbp curses Welho/Elisa13:40
timeless_mbpi should not have to arrange my entire apt based on your stupid cable jacks13:40
SpeedEviltimeless: the analog cables out of hte box will never show blockyness13:42
SpeedEviltimeless: if you connect a 100m SCART cable - it won't be blocky  - it may be a bit blurred, and the colours a bit muddy13:42
* timeless_mbp needs to run and grab food13:43
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: well, and you get a lot of ghost imagery13:43
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SpeedEvilxorAxAx: well - at 100m - not really13:44
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SpeedEvilxorAxAx: 100m is only 500ns or so, or 1/128th or so of a line.13:44
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: and termination will remove most of the reflections. If it's quality coax, there is no issue.13:45
xorAxAxscart cable with coax? :)13:45
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SpeedEvilxorAxAx: yes, I have several leads.13:48
SpeedEvilSome I DIY'd13:48
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SpeedEvilthe few purchased leads I have make some attempt too - though the grade of coax is typically very poor13:50
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mrmgHiya, new N900 owner here saying Hi. :)13:53
XisdibikHi new n900 owner here saying Hi. :)13:53
alteregoMaybe one day I'll have an N900 ..13:53
* alterego dreams13:53
BirdFlewgreetings mrmg13:54
* BirdFlew is also a new N900 owner13:54
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* xorAxAx lives in germany and is still waiting for the n90013:54
BirdFlewhaven't been this excited about a piece of hardware in a long time13:55
* cehteh lives in germany and will send his n900 back today13:55
Nitialwould be nice to know some sale n900 stats.. must be good because nokia has problems to fulfill the demand ;)13:55
BirdFlewwhy, cehteh?13:55
* mgedmin nearly lost his n900 to a hot tea spill on Saturday13:56
cehtehbroken cable, camera slide and reboots13:56
cehtehi hope newer hardware revisions are better13:56
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cehtehi should start deleting the device ...13:57
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Stskeepstigert: ping13:57
XisdibikStskeeps: pong13:57
tigertStskeeps: pong?13:58
tigertXisdibik: hush13:58
fluxsoo, what's the least amount of space at / someone has managed to install the new ugprade in?13:58
fluxiow is 30M sufficient :)13:59
Xisdibiktigert: yessa massa13:59
Stskeepstigert: seems like the template source has been pushed out now, though as CC SA 2.513:59
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tigertfyi: ogg support works fine in pr1.0.114:00
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tigertat least stream plays ok14:00
mgedmin"Checking for updates, please wait" -- it's been 30 minutes like that, at 50%14:00
tigertStskeeps: ok!14:00
tigertStskeeps: gitorious?14:00
Stskeepstigert: yeah14:01
Stskeepsjust trying to find some discussions/documentation for the changeover to 3.0 of plankton as an example14:01
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timelessmgedmin: sounds like a repo is down14:03
timelessit happens regulary14:03
tigertStskeeps: thanks for the info14:04
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timelessnitial: typically sales volume is company confidential or secret14:04
BirdFlewdoes transmission only work with a microsd card installed?14:05
timelessnitial: i personally doln't know it14:06
timelessbut it's safe to say "btter than expected"14:06
timelessand given that it's turning up in respectable reviewer circles14:06
tigertBirdFlew: does it?14:06
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timelessand getting respectable reviews14:06
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BirdFlewahhh, the default save path was mmc2, i changed it to a subfolder of mydocs and we're away14:09
Gadgetoid_mbp brilliant!14:10
Gadgetoid_mbpSonim XP3 pwned14:10
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timelesskinttori: i'm really liking your theme14:11
ShadowJKcool, i can actuu14:11
VDVsxGadgetoid_iMac, ups :D14:12
VDVsxGadgetoid_mbp, ^14:12
ShadowJKally use xchat scrollbars with gloves on better than I can use the hwkeyboard..14:12
* timeless grumbles14:12
timelessthat sucked14:12
timelessi just tried to fullscreen that video14:12
Gadgetoid_mbpI boiled my XP3 in a kettle, threw it onto concrete, smashed it on the edge of a desk, etc14:12
timelessbut i got a web page is not responsive dialog14:13
timelesswhich killed my fullscreen14:13
Gadgetoid_mbpfail :(14:13
ShadowJKblame adobe :)14:13
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Gadgetoid_mbpOh and we kicked the phone about 300 meters down a street in a little game of phoneball14:14
* ShadowJK <3 nspluginviewer on desktop machine14:14
cehtehcat /dev/zero >MyDocs/,deleteme || rm MyDocs/,deleteme &14:14
cehteh.. that will take some time14:14
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zaheer_flux: i had 26MB free when i installed14:15
Gadgetoid_mbpcehteh: will that actually re-write over the same sectors? </paranoia>14:16
timelessless fail than that unbreakable phone :)14:16
Gadgetoid_mbpHmm, MySql doesn't like subqueries that try to sort millions of rows14:16
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cehtehnah .. i tihnk once should be enough on a flash medium .. i just dont want that someone can easily recover my keys, music whatever with a simple recovery tool14:16
timelessburn it!14:17
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cehtehtimeless: not sure, but i think that will void warranty :)14:17
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mikhasGadgetoid_mbp, sort in a temp table first14:18
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Gadgetoid_mbpmikhas: I think I've probably got an indexing misconfiguration, getting some pretty slow response times14:19
Gadgetoid_mbpBut then I'm used to MS SQL and SQL Server14:19
Gadgetoid_mbpAnd having a DBA to re-write my abysmal queries14:20
mikhasjust index every join attribute14:20
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Gadgetoid_mbpDon't say that to a DBA....14:20
mikhasoopsie =) but then again, correlated queries can be slow regardless of all that =)14:21
Gadgetoid_mbpHaha, it's only 5 million rows, too, sheesh14:22
bionoidIn some cases, indexes can actually reduce join performance, depending on your optimizer. Best leave that to the DBA also ;-)14:22
cehtehcat: write error: File too large14:23
cehtehbah .. crap fat filesystem14:23
Gadgetoid_mbpcehteh: hahahahaha, failz14:23
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Gadgetoid_mbpI just write one small file of zeros and duplicate it... although I think some filesystems will just add a pointer to the same file14:23
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Gadgetoid_mbpAlthough by small I mean big14:24
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cehteh dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mmcblk0p1 bs=4M14:24
cehteh.. grr14:24
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cehtehkill it with zeros :)14:24
Gadgetoid_mbpWill the N900 recover from that!?14:24
cehtehi'll reflash14:25
cehtehafter that14:25
* slonopotamus prefers /dev/urandom14:25
cehtehon a n900?14:25
cehtehhey my time is limited14:25
nomisargh. the maemo-x-term has bogus UTF-8 support.14:25
mgedminnomis, clarify please?14:25
slonopotamusnomis: i second that14:26
nomismgedmin: enter a Euro letter at the beginning of the cmdline and watch how you can backspace (three times for me)14:26
* rlinfati trying to do an SSU update to pr1.1 with comment #6 of bug 774214:26
povbot`Bug Apps depending on libqt4-phonon won't install on 2.2009.51-114:26
nomishow often.14:26
mgedminnomis, that's not xterm's fault14:26
mgedminthat's busybox14:26
nomismgedmin: oh, right.14:27
mgedmintry the same thing in vim14:27
mgedminit'll work perfectly14:27
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slonopotamusmgedmin: that doesn't change the fact that there's a bug.14:27
jebbarlinfati: is this PR1.1. available publicly yet?  I saw ruskie mention something too, but dont see it on page14:27
mgedminslonopotamus, some might call it an "unsupported feature"14:27
nomismgedmin: yeah, I did not think long enough.14:27
slonopotamusmgedmin: in order to say that you need to have a list of 'supported features'.14:28
Gadgetoid_mbpHmm, maybe I should backup before installing this pre-update update14:29
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ifreqjebba: dont think so14:30
rlinfatijebba, the user/pass for the unreleased pr1.1 is diferent...14:30
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Stskeepsjebba: just PR1.0.1 today14:31
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rlinfatiYou don't have permission to access .....unreleased/fremantle1.1.......14:32
jebbaStskeeps: really? I'm trying to download the repo headers....14:32
Stskeepsjebba: btw i've patched mer apt14:33
Stskeepsit should be able to access ssu repositories now14:33
timelesssts: why did it need a pacth14:33
jebbaapt-transport-https is funkiy14:34
Stskeepstimeless: maemo apt uses a login/password to log into ssu repositories14:34
Stskeepstimeless: this support doesn't exist in normal apt14:34
Stskeeps(just simple http auth i think)14:35
jebbaThis is the only post i can see about the update (!?!)14:36
Stskeepsjebba: has Peter talking about it too14:36
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timelessis that submitted to apt upstream?14:36
Stskeepsand is overflowing14:36
Stskeepstimeless: don't think so, especially since it has other cute tricks :P14:36
jebbaah, i'm blind dont see it in talk  ;)  (using liferea for new posts)14:37
JaffaGood grief, the "New firmware released!" thread is depressing14:38
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StskeepsJaffa: wait till you see release processes one14:40
schaschhello...does somebody have a download-link  for "irreco-for-n900" ?...I can not find it...14:40
JaffaStskeeps: At least that's shorter.14:41
DocScrutinizer51schasch: I enabled the devel and testing repos and simply installed it via MAM14:42
* Jaffa ponders putting an app which disables extras-devel into extras-devel with XB-Display-Name: Maemo 614:42
jebbauh, perhaps some official post somewhere about this would be in order.  The closest thing I see giving any info is GAN's post buried in the middle....14:42
shinkamuihey, anyone have a tweaked openal cfg for the N90014:42
fralslol Jaffa14:43
shinkamuimine is empty, and Im having performance issues in some apps like gemrb14:43
* Xisdibik immediately downloads the app Jaffa puts up14:43
SpeedEvilJaffa: well - maemo 5 is already in the app manager - for some reason14:43
JaffaAnd Ari Jaaksi14:43
shinkamuiNot really sure what I should be trying to tweak14:43
JaffaSpeedEvil: That's how SSUs are handled; but the protection against cross-repo updates probably has an attack vector based on display name,14:43
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schasch<DocScrutinizer51: thanks...i enabled them too....  but can not find "irreco-for-n900" linke in youtube....only 3 other irreco-entries...?14:44
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jebbaStskeeps: heh, that's the official update info?  ;)14:44
SpeedEvilis there a way to get the toolbar showing on the task switcher?14:45
DocScrutinizer51schasch: sorry, no idea. Here it works just fine14:45
jebbaman, this *is* ridiculous. Who pushes a kernel update/system update without an official post anywhere?14:45
SpeedEvilI know it's not there to differentiate between task switcher and other pages14:45
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XisdibikSpeedEvil: yes, download the Maemo 6 from extras-devel  by Jaffa ;)14:45
schaschDocScrutinizer51: OK ...I will test ....(working on the scratchbox till my n900 arrives)14:46
Stskeepsjebba: twitter is official ;P14:46
Stskeepsjebba: but yeah, some sort of an announcement would be useful14:46
jebba"It contains mostly small adjustments invisible to user preparing for next update."  uh, and a kernel.14:46
andrewgodwinI was hoping they might have stuck the 3 SIM fix in this one, but it looks like more waiting (I suspect this update lets the app manager flash over such bugs...)14:46
andrewgodwinstill, this might mean 1.1 is getting closer.14:46
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leon-could someone plz fix the quake dependency issue, argh.. it's driving me crazy :)14:46
Stskeepsandrewgodwin: i kinda suspect pr1.0.1 prepares for the 3 fix14:46
* jebba boggles at nokia's lack of process14:46
Jaffajebba: How do you know where the fixes are?14:47
jebbaJaffa: i havent seen any fixes myself.14:47
SpeedEviljebba: usual users think kernels are the figureheads of fried chicken enterprises.14:47
Stskeepsjebba: kernel is making it possible to adjust ubifs compression ratio14:47
andrewgodwinStskeeps: yeah, flashing the GSM/SIM/whatever chips can't be easy14:47
jebbaJaffa: just something in this "tweet"
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Jaffajebba: Right, but you said "uh, and a kernel". Kernels aren't visible to most users...14:47
andrewgodwinstill, at least in the meantime I can bask in the glory of the new app manager icons14:48
julianoliveranyone else experiencing inability to use any network service other than HTTP on their N900 with 42-11?14:48
DocScrutinizer51Esim is a modem firmware issue anyway14:48
JaffaIndeed, which probably - as andrewgodwin says - requires some low-level changes to make sure it can be done over MU14:49
julianoliverOvi share is forever 'waiting for server', email can't be sent and received, weather not updated..14:49
Gadgetoid_mbpBounce Evolution 1.0.1?14:49
Gadgetoid_mbpFrees 200kb of device memory... can't argue with that14:50
* SpeedEvil wants source for modem.14:50
ruskiewhy not just source for everything14:50
SpeedEvilsource for everything!14:50
SpeedEvilbut never going to happen.14:50
xorAxAxbecause people could destroy the glorious UI!14:50
xorAxAxby just reading the distinct code14:50
pupnikneed more flexible dns applet14:51
SpeedEvilpupnik: bind?14:51
ifreqjulianoliver: no problems14:51
wazd_e63Meh. Stupid isp14:52
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DocScrutinizer51from other modems' firmware update scheme I'd expect firmware update to be a rather unique process involving a non-standrd bootup of whole system - you need to intercept bootloader of modem rather than talking to modem via usual driver14:52
pupnikthere are options14:52
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julianoliverifreq: i don't know what's up here. for 3 days all basic network related services on the device are out of action. seems several other people are experiencing sudden email outage of two days ago. perhaps a network related package update is at fault.14:53
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ifreqjulianoliver: tested on various diff networks?14:53
* julianoliver keeps investigating14:53
julianoliverifreq: i mean to do this shortly. heavy snow here..14:53
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ifreqah okay but then its ISP and weather prob?14:54
julianoliverifreq: it was working just fine on my hope AP, and ovi sharing works fine from the laptop.14:54
DocScrutinizer51so I don't see how to 'prepare' the system for an eventual modem fw update14:55
julianoliverifreq: indeed, perhaps the n900 hibernates various services in such grim weather.14:55
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51:  kernel module understanding how to frob the GPIOs to set modem into update state14:55
ShadowJKime 3g works better the colder it is :)14:56
SpeedEvilShadowJK: no leaves14:56
ifreqjulianoliver: what is ovi sharing service? ive got account but not familiar with such services14:56
SpeedEvilShadowJK: leaves on trees cause significant attenuation in many cases.14:56
ShadowJKand less crap in the atmosphere14:56
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: yo. but you also need to shutdown all the normal framework interfacing the modem. All this can either be done already or will need a very special init process. No way to 'prepare' for it14:57
ShadowJKWhen I said "colder" I meant like -30C instead of -5C ;)14:57
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I'd have to move 50km to get that cold.14:57
SpeedEvil(well - more like 150 maybe)14:57
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SpeedEvilIt's been down to -22 in parts of scotland this winter so far.14:58
SpeedEvilhere it's melting.14:58
SpeedEvilI have snow pics from my n900.14:58
julianoliverifreq: take a photo on your N900 and upload it to a flickr-ish like gallery, share video etc.14:58
ruskie <-- lol14:58
Xisdibikwait who here has the new firmware installed?14:58
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ShadowJKhm, is dpkg-repack or whatever in any repo?14:59
JaffaXisdibik: Which new firmware?14:59
julianoliverruskie: yes saw that. probably scary enough for Google to start an app review queue.14:59
XisdibikJaffa: i thought someone mentioned a new firmware out.  like 44-1 or something14:59
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JaffaXisdibik: Indeed, just checking you meant PR 1.0.1 ;-)14:59
ruskieShadowJK, apparently not14:59
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bionoidIs it safe to do development, flashing etc from a virtual machine, or does Linux have to run natively on the system?15:00
XisdibikJaffa: ;),  do you have it installed?15:00
JaffaXisdibik: Some people in the community have 2.2009.51-115:00
* Jaffa does not have 1.2009.42-11 installed, no15:00
* ShadowJK tars up rootfs instead... just in case nokia tries to delete powertop15:00
julianoliverbionoid: you can run scratchbox in a linux guest, just fine.15:00
Jaffabionoid: That's fine15:00
julianoliverbionoid: (not that i do)15:00
SpeedEvilIt looks like when update process completes - I can install maemo 6!15:00
XisdibikJaffa: as mine says 1.2009.44-1.002 and i was wondering if it was the newest one15:00
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SpeedEvil(frozen for half an hour now)15:00
JaffaXisdibik: I believe it is, yes15:01
andre__Xisdibik, 1.2009.44-1.002 is the newest publically available one.15:01
bionoidjulianoliver / Jaffa Cool, thanks15:01
Xisdibikandre__ and Jaffa: thanks,  i had to reflash the other day, wanted to make sure i hadnt just missed a new firmware15:01
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: it already finished installing maemo6. That's what you get ;-P15:01
ifreqjulianoliver: yeh ic. how about permission, do you need to tune permissions later so its public?15:02
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bionoidAnother question, is there a reason why dpkg-reconfigure is not present (N900), and can it be installed?15:03
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ruskiebionoid, bacuse it's not used?15:05
andre__bionoid, what is it used for?15:05
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rosheniayeah! i can upgrade!15:09
bionoidandre__: Re-run the configuration step of an installed package15:09
rosheniawhere are change log?15:09
bionoidruskie: Well, I just wanted to install locales which I normally do with dpkg-reconfigure locales on a debian system.15:09
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ruskiebionoid, erm there aren't any or are already installed what there is15:10
andre__roshenia: with regard to public bug reports, you can search in for reports with status RESOLVED FIXED and with Target Milestone = 5.0/(1.2009.44-1)15:10
timeless_mbpandre__: are there any? :)15:11
jebbahey, can someone that has the latest update tell me what their nameserver IP is?  ;)15:11
andre__timeless_mbp, probably? :-P15:11
timeless_mbpjebba: latest being 44-1?15:11
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jebbatimeless_mbp: latest public ya, 44-1 i think15:12
rosheniaandre__, i wanna read improovements and other stuff15:12
ruskiejebba, same old same old
julianoliverany major breakage in 44-1 i should be forewarned about?15:12
timeless_mbproshenia: "support for updating past sales version"15:12
timeless_mbp"support for being recognized as having a version slightly newer than sales version"15:12
andre__roshenia, as written. for the rest there might be something in, but I doubt...15:12
timeless_mbp"icons in application manager"15:12
rosheniatimeless_mbp, what you mean ?15:12
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timeless_mbproshenia: the sales version of application manager was buggy in such a way15:13
ruskie ...15:13
timeless_mbpthat we couldn't update people to pr1.115:13
ruskie... llwords&keywords=&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0- ...15:13
Stskeepsruskie: tinyurl or something15:13
ruskie... 0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= <-- 5 bugs there :)15:13
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timeless_mbpruskie: you need a bookmarklet15:13
timeless_mbpgoogle: jesse bookmarklet bugzilla shortenurl15:13
timeless_mbpor something like that15:13
ruskieI don't use any url shortening services15:13
rosheniatimeless_mbp, what about battery life?15:13
timeless_mbproshenia: so, we needed a fixed version of application manager15:13
timeless_mbproshenia: it's just a bridge to 1.115:13
ruskienever have and never will15:13
timeless_mbpit isn't an update15:14
jebbaI like how they have no idea if someone is fucking with the build server configurations or not.15:14
ruskiealso I don't open short urls15:14
SpeedEviloh - yes. update finished - 'maemo 5' - 21.5M15:14
timeless_mbpruskie: the bookmarklet i'm offering converts your overly long and confusing bugzilla query15:14
timeless_mbpinto a useful meaningful bugzilla query15:14
timeless_mbpshorten bug query15:15
timeless_mbptry it.15:15
ruskieto bad I don't use gecko or anyhing else that would remotely support a bookmarklet :)15:15
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: any changelog?15:15
ruskieor to be precise need to configure it15:15
ruskiebut looks nice15:15
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timeless_mbpruskie: anything that supports javascript should work15:15
timeless_mbpthat says it works in Opera...15:15
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: no - says make backup - and all apps will close, and you can't do emergency calls while happening15:16
ruskie <-- here's a manual shortening :)15:16
DocScrutinizer51sounds like modem fw update actually15:16
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: naah15:16
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: 21.8M?15:16
ruskietimeless_mbp, I don't use Opera, Firefox, IE, Safari, Chrome, etc... etc... etc.. :)15:16
timeless_mbpwhat do you use?15:16
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: if the UI is down, you can't make calls15:16
DocScrutinizer51scratch that15:17
DocScrutinizer51I'm reluctant15:17
ruskiethough I'm slowly migrating back to kazehakase... as soon as I can figure out how to get it back to using gecko15:17
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ruskietimeless_mbp, http://www.uzbl.org15:17
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timeless_mbpLatest News15:18
timeless_mbp2010.01.05: Nasty security bug15:18
timeless_mbpgreat news.15:18
timeless_mbpWe're currently finding out how to plug this hole decently without loosing [sic]15:19
timeless_mbprelaxing features is what got them the bug in the first place ;-b15:19
ruskieI actually use a much much older version15:20
ruskiemid octoker or something15:20
ruskieafter that they went in a completly different direction and I gave up on them15:20
timeless_mbpandre__: wow, one of my bugs was fixed!15:20
ruskieso now going back to kazehakase which always worked well for me15:20
jebbatimeless_mbp: bug URL/number?15:21
Oli``Anybody know if 32gig microSDHCs will work in the n900 when they're finally released?15:21
timeless_mbpuse ruskie 's latest link15:21
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ShadowJKOli``, no reason known why they wouldn't work15:22
timeless_mbpOli``: i wouldn't bet on them working15:22
timeless_mbpor not working15:22
timeless_mbphistorically there have always been surprises in newer sizes15:23
cehtehOli``: offically only up to 16GB is supported with a note that not all cards may work15:23
SpeedEvilOli``: it's not like RAM - it's more like USB.15:23
Oli``ShadowJK: I wondered if there was a limit because the sales snuff for the n900 says ~"up to 48 gigs"15:23
cehtehSpeedEvil: SD is far worse than USB15:23
timeless_mbpOli``: that's 32gb + 16gb, and that's tested15:23
cehtehusb has only 2 or 3 modes in which it can operate15:23
ShadowJKOli``, basically it says 16G because that's the biggest that was found for testing with..15:23
SpeedEvilOli``: the fundamental underlying transport has not changed - simply the overlying layers. And the overlying layers are software controllable.15:23
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: what cehteh said15:23
SpeedEvilcehteh: well - in some ways.15:23
cehtehSD has prolly a dozen :)15:23
timeless_mbpcehteh: to be fair, usb  has various device classes15:24
SpeedEvil32G with converter cable would be easy to test15:24
cehtehdifferent frequencies, different bus widths (4bit, 1bit ...)15:24
timeless_mbpbut there are only 16, and your average device only claims ~3 of them15:24
ShadowJKI guess there are different levels of "works", too.. I suppose you could run out of space for the tracker databases if you filled 64 gigs with lots of songs, etc :)15:24
cehtehhalf a dozen protocoll revisions15:24
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: that's better :)15:24
SpeedEvilcehteh: the protocol revisions - what I've seen of them - can be handled in driver though15:25
SpeedEvilI want a copy of hte newest SD spec15:25
Oli``On a thoroughly unrelated note: Is USB host-mode still a no-go on the n900?15:25
SpeedEvilOli``: very alas.15:25
ShadowJKOli``, no go until proven otherwise imo15:25
SpeedEvilOli``: it requires hardware mods.15:25
DocScrutinizer51Oli``: finaly a dead topic15:26
* Stskeeps ponders if the warsaw route planner provides a web service15:26
cehtehSpeedEvil: not all15:26
SpeedEvilOli``: and _difficult_ hardware mods.15:26
Oli``That's a shame15:26
cehtehwell and you definately want DMA working SD in PIO mode sux15:26
SpeedEvilOli``: as in bridging one connection under a 3*3mm chip with 36 connections.15:26
Gadgetoid_mbpDid the installer uninstaller meta package ever come to fruition?15:26
timeless_mbpthe what?15:26
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cehtehSpeedEvil: last time it was 4x4mm .. did we got a die-shrink?15:27
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: though we (paul and me) are not convinced that 'short D2 to GND' is really a competent statement15:27
Gadgetoid_mbpCannae remember who was writing it, but a package to uninstall all the stupid AOL-trial like installers that come on the N90015:27
SpeedEvilcehteh: meh.15:27
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: possibly not.15:27
ruskieGadgetoid_mbp, lol... that's easy to remove using apt-get remove :)15:27
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: apparantly it's from someone with actual schematics.15:27
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: it could really indeed mean isolate D2, and bridge to ground forex.15:27
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Oli``SpeedEvil: rofl - yeah okay... that sounds like a no-go to me.15:28
DocScrutinizer51wel but maybe with no clue about the PHY chip operation principles15:28
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: I need to try and find the datasheet for the phy chip15:28
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: talk to paul15:28
DocScrutinizer51he tossed me a URL15:28
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: it's not switchable in software in its current state apparantly - unless the schematic is altered. unless reserved bits in the I2C do stuff15:28
Oli``Is there any scope for an external host-to-host adapter? No idea how it would work on a technical level but it would act as host for two devices and *somehow* allow interaction15:28
Gadgetoid_mbpruskie: apt-get remove *installer ? :D if only15:28
DocScrutinizer51seems all PHY have a common A'PI'15:28
SpeedEvilOli``: yes - that's technically possible.15:29
Gadgetoid_mbpI'm just doing it through app manager, which is tedious15:29
ShadowJKOli``, I believe it's called N810+USBHub ;-)15:29
SpeedEvilOli``: if anyone will make it - ...15:29
Gadgetoid_mbpWhat really puzzles me, is that updates to those stupid installers were showing in App Manager... *facepalm*15:29
SpeedEvilOli``: A USB cable with external power takes 5 min to 'design' and 10 min to build.15:29
fluxshadowjk, yeah, USB over IP and then that, simple!15:29
ruskieGadgetoid_mbp, want a list?15:29
rosheniahehe, i have 2.5G internet on nokia15:29
rosheniai download at second time update =)15:30
SpeedEvilOli``: a USB device-host bridge is several orders of magnitude harder.15:30
Gadgetoid_mbpruskie: think I've got 'em all now, but I imagine the new firmware will bring them all flooding back just to annoy me- best write a script to kill 'em off15:30
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: there was no indication in those ds about any *physical* switching of direction. Should be feasible via register tweaking15:30
ruskieGadgetoid_mbp, working on that actually ;)15:30
ruskieor will be15:30
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: k - not seen ds15:30
Gadgetoid_mbpNice :)15:30
rosheniaruskie, you from russia?15:30
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: still lack of 5V power seems to be a fact15:30
julianoliverruskie: you must get that alot15:31
SpeedEvilthat's trivial though of course.15:31
ruskiejulianoliver, a few times15:31
glass_built time usb into a wireless dock15:31
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: ping paul15:31
ruskiethe easiest is... don't assume location based on nick15:31
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Gadgetoid_mbpruskie: are you from russia?15:31
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fluxspeedevil, a USB device-host-bridge would be something some company could build15:31
Gadgetoid_mbpSorry, not even I found that funny... sigh15:31
fluxspeedevil, and it could even be useful for other than N900 as well - say, maybe for android-based phones?15:31
SpeedEvilflux: err - yes.15:32
DocScrutinizer51flux: not much sense in such a device15:32
SpeedEvilflux: unfortunately, it is a very complex hardware and software device.15:32
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SpeedEvilflux: designing from scratch is likely to cost well over $20k or so.15:32
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SpeedEvilRebooted, and seems to have come up fine.15:34
cehtehhuh ... this flash controler is strange15:34
SpeedEvilreporting version 1.2009.44-1.203.415:34
cehtehwith my erasing .. the first few GB where very slow and now suddently it got a massive speed boost15:34
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cehtehcan it be that there is a lot internal fragmentation which slows it down after some use?15:35
ShadowJKI would find it more likely that there was some swapping going on at first15:35
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ShadowJKthe kernel's swappiness is set to 100 :P15:35
Gadgetoid_mbpA USB host to host bridge is going to get horribly complicated with existing usb host to host cables. I purport we call it a USB Flappamajig forthwith to avoid confusion15:35
cehtehnah not over writeing gigabytes ...15:36
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timeless_mbpandre__: did you see the note about 44-1 having issues for people stupid enough not to have moved from 41-x to 42-y15:40
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rlinfati$ cat /etc/hostname -> Nokia-N900-42-11 :S15:44
andre__timeless_mbp, no15:45
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JaffaSomeone on tmo was suggesting reflashing back to 42-11 and then doing a binary diff to work out how to get red-pill back in HAM.15:47
JaffaThe thought of looking at the HAM source and rebuilding it didn't occur to them :-/15:47
timeless_mbpJaffa: right15:47
timeless_mbpi liked that15:47
Robot101bless :)15:47
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adalalwhat is HAM?15:48
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Xisdibika meat15:49
StskeepsHildon Application Manager15:49
zashHAM radio?15:49
adalalah lol15:49
_ishan_can someone point me to a downloadable (packaged) version of Maemo sliders example (
cehtehok deleted. reflashed .. pristine device now :)15:50
ruskie <-- lol15:50
adalali guess hildon applciation manager is what it is, unless the n900 doubles up as food or if it has HAM radio15:50
fralsrlinfati: yeah, seems like they forgot to update the hostname ^^15:50
mecean edible ham radio!15:50
zashham over radio15:51
julianoliverruskie: quite a fine looking device. shame Google didn't think through dev relations before launch.15:52
_ishan_can someone point me to a downloadable (packaged) version of Maemo sliders example (
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ruskie_ishan_, repeating the same thing over and over will only get you ignored15:53
BirdFlewapp manager now stays at the position you were in after installing something... cross one minor annoyance off the list!15:53
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_ishan_ruskie: ok, then do you have a suggestion to my problem, please?15:54
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ruskieyou haven't stated a problem15:55
_ishan_ruskie: my problem is i need to test the maemo-sliders app on my n900. can u please help?15:55
ruskie_ishan_, hmm from what I can tell you take the existing code and apply that on top15:57
ruskieanyway I'm off for now15:57
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rosheniawhere general changelog of new firmware>15:58
rosheniawhat abut battery life?15:58
Stskeepsit's a minor update, a stepping stone to PR1.1.15:58
rosheniawhat is PR1.1&15:58
Stskeepsthe next update in line15:58
_claesbas servers overloaded atm?15:58
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StskeepsPR1.0 (what the device shipped with) -> PR1.0.1 (current update) -> PR1.115:59
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DocScrutinizer51checking for updates takes ages :-P15:59
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DocScrutinizer51prolly should disable the repos on 770-farm16:00
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rosheniaStskeeps, what about improvements of battery life in 1.1? what about speed of device and other useful thigs?16:04
Stskeepsroshenia: i wouldn't know anything about PR1.1.16:04
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Muhvihi, is the 1.2009.42.11 == PR1.0 ?16:05
Muhvior are we talking about something different16:05
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andre__Muhvi, what do you need to know for? :)16:06
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andre__I'd call it "Sales release" instead.16:06
wazdStskeeps: something is telling me that it is linux tool :D16:07
Muhviandre__, well, for general knowledge, as people usually speak about PR1.0 and PR1.116:08
Muhvihow do those version number relate to that 1.2009.42.1116:08
wazdStskeeps: ah, wrong channel, but whatever :)16:08
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JaffaMuhvi: 1.<year>.<week of base build>.<build number>16:08
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Stskeepswazd: yeah, but it is handier to work with :P16:08
mgedminJaffa, that' doesn't explain "PRx.y"16:08
DocScrutinizer51anyway a decent announcement - with comprehensive changelog - really was fine16:09
Jaffamgedmin: Public Release <major>.<minor>[.<very-minor>]16:09
andre__Muhvi, if it makes you happy, call 1.2009.42-11 "PR1.0"...16:09
* wazd thinks that he should definitely have some kind of real Ubuntu installed on his PC16:09
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DocScrutinizer51andre__: any location to gather kinda changelog?16:10
mgedminubuntu is good (except when it doesn't work)16:10
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rosheniafuuuuuuck. i download in 3d time update =(16:11
Muhviandre, so PR1.0 or 1.1 are in no way official ways to inform people about updates, but just some codes that people use (for fun?)16:12
andre__Muhvi, I don't know how two digits like "1.1" includes any information for people about updates. maybe I don't get your question.16:12
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andre__DocScrutinizer51: , and/or query in for bugs with status RESOLVED, resolution FIXED and Target Milestone = 5.0/(1.2009.44-1)16:13
SpeedEvilThey should choose a catchy name.16:13
SpeedEvilFlatulent Ferret.16:13
andre__DocScrutinizer51, for any more info, please ask Nokia instead...16:13
* Stskeeps wonders why repository is so slow16:14
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mgedminandre__, when I got an invitation to test the 51-1 release, the email explicitly named it as "early access to the PR 1.1 release."16:14
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ShadowJKa million N900 owners crying out "updates!"?16:14
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DocScrutinizer51andre__: thanks that's jsut as much info as I needed :-)16:14
andre__mgedmin, errm yeah, so?16:14
Bluewindanyone has a mirror of
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Jaffamgedmin: Presumably it should have said "early access to what we *hope* is the PR 1.1 release" ;-)16:15
JaffaBluewind: Akamai does.16:15
mgedminandre__, just saying, it's not random people out there on the net who invented the PRx.y scheme; it came from Nokia16:15
mgedminand it's quite reasonable to ask what the heck PR1.1 actually means in terms of the YYYYWW-X16:15
Oli``Anybody know why, after the update, my N900 calls itself BCM2048B0 instead of N900?16:15
adalalthat would be the wireless card16:15
* mgedmin shrugs16:15
Muhvimgedmin, exactly16:16
andre__mgedmin, ah, yeah, that's true :)16:16
Muhvithat is what i mean16:16
mgedminso, Muhvi, you got your answer now: PR1.1 is 51-116:16
Muhvimgedmin, thanks :)16:16
ShadowJKI suspect 1.1 isn't tied to a year-week-version yet16:16
mgedminunless they made fixes and incremented the version number before releasing it16:16
Oli``aaah, just need to change the name in bluetooth settings16:16
andre__ShadowJK, moving target. currently 51-116:16
mgedmin"public release 1.0", first update is quite naturally 1.116:16
Muhvibut there is 1.0.1 as well ?16:17
timeless_mbpMuhvi: err16:17
timeless_mbp51-1 is probably *not* going to be 1.116:17
timeless_mbp1.1 is just a magical number for managers @nokia16:17
timeless_mbpit's absolutely meaningless to anyone else16:17
Muhvii like magical numbers :|16:17
timeless_mbpi don't16:17
timeless_mbpnor does andre__16:17
ShadowJKmagical names are more fun16:18
timeless_mbpand we kindly request you to honor our wishes not to deal w/ useless magical numbers16:18
mikhasMuhvi, you probably mixed that up with magic mushrooms16:18
timeless_mbpthe only numbers that matter are the ones for things which nokia has released16:18
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timeless_mbpat this point, that's 44-116:18
Stskeepsright, new kernel for 1.0.1 are
mgedminwhich raises the question: blogs are screaming about an SSU update for the N900 that came out today/yesterday16:18
mgedminand I'm confused16:18
Muhviyup, i'm trying to figure out here what is the neat way to do it16:18
mgedminsince I can't apt-get update due to extreme slowness16:18
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mgedminI thought it was the 51-1 that was released --- apparently not16:19
ifreqidd my update via appmanager.. early enff :)16:19
timeless_mbpmgedmin: so, 1. have you disable extras-* ?16:19
timeless_mbpmgedmin: no, 44-1, which is a bridge release16:19
timeless_mbpit's just enough to enable updating to the next thing16:19
mgedmintimeless_mbp, weren't they moved to the new fast powerful super-servers yet?16:19
timeless_mbpwhich is still roughly vaporware16:19
mgedminor is that happening this week?16:19
StskeepsIII: heads up, we might need to update some things on Maemo-on-OMAP today16:19
timeless_mbpmgedmin: i know nothing about server ops16:19
timeless_mbpthe update servers seem to be akamai hosted too16:20
timeless_mbpbut it seems that for reasons beyond my understanding that nokia did its 44-1 roll out incrementally16:20
* mgedmin is suffering from information overload16:20
StskeepsIII: but nothing dangerous as i can see it,
timeless_mbpmy guess is that the reason for that relates to akamai's pricing structure16:20
rlinfatiwhy location-test-gui is removed on Maemo 5.0update2  !!16:21
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Stskeepsrlinfati: hmm?16:22
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Bluewind faster mirror16:22
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rlinfatiStskeeps,  in fremantle/tools non-free16:23
wazdkonttori_nokia: around?16:23
konttori_nokiawazd, here16:23
wazdkonttori_nokia: I have something for you :)16:24
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Stskeepsrlinfati: file a bug?16:24
Stskeepsrlinfati: as this is a really useful tool for community16:24
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jjorlinfati: actually no need to file a bug16:25
vpoli've got a strange problem. i have sip account correctly configured. when i get incoming call - i press answer and nothing happens. tshark shows no packets outgoing from device.... so it freeses in "Connecting.." state.16:25
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jjothe old version is still in the repository and I'll take care of the new one if there is one16:25
wazdkonttori_nokia: I think you know what it is :)16:25
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rlinfatijjo, but, i can not do a apt-get..... now need a wget + dpkg16:26
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timeless_mbpwazd: yeah16:26
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wazdkonttori_nokia: combine it with your template to see where coordinates are screwed up16:27
wazdkonttori_nokia: like RSS applet16:28
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timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: is the clock icon for ellapsed time in call ui intentionally a corner of a clock?16:29
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SplasPoodAnyone here happened to have gotten the google voice 'TheOneRing' thing working?16:30
konttori_nokiatimeless, well, so and so.16:31
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nomisWhen recording videos my n900 stores a 'Video:Source' = 'noki://0/<hexdigits>' property in tracker. Is this documented somewhere?16:31
nomisor what do the hexdigits refer to?16:31
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rosheniawazd, скока у тя батарея живёт?16:33
timeless_mbproshenia: English?16:33
* timeless_mbp sighs16:33
redeemanwazd: is that really how the n900 has its themes stored?16:34
timeless_mbpevil stupid stupid stupid stupid evil16:34
rosheniatimeless_mbp, ыщккн16:34
rosheniatimeless_mbp, sorry16:34
wazdroshenia: well,0, cause I don't have n90016:34
konttori_nokianomis, no it's not documented, but now you know.16:34
wazdroshenia: cause... well, I don't :D16:34
wazdroshenia: c'est la vie :)16:34
mrmgphew, different nomis16:35
wazdredeeman: no, not really16:35
konttori_nokiaIt's an information element to allow listing videos taken with devices camera16:35
wazdkonttori_nokia: notice that rss template is misplaced16:35
adalalanyone know of PTT for the n900?16:35
nomiskonttori_nokia: do you know if the hexdigits identify the n900 used to record? Or is this some ID just referring to "n900 internal camera"=16:35
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konttori_nokiawazd, no, it's just too small (in height), right?16:36
wazdkonttori_nokia: well, yeah16:36
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wazdkonttori_nokia: kind of :) It's wrong anyway :D16:36
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konttori_nokiawazd, yes it is. I'll fix it16:40
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Bluewindwhere does apt save the package lists?16:42
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Bluewindnvm got it /var/lib/apt16:43
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jjorlinfati: then there is a problem16:45
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jjoI'll try to do something about that16:46
Gadgetoid_mbpmoney4gold, cash4gold... get off my telly, argh!16:47
jjoat least I get it with apt16:47
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Bluewindi'm not really into apt so could someone tell me what I have to do now?
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Bluewinddon't really want an unbootable sys16:47
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Jef91Morning all - almost 22meg maemo update this morning. anyone know what all they changed/fixed?16:48
* MaemohammadAG kinda has a problem16:48
MaemohammadAGJef91, morning, it's just a preperation for pr1.116:48
MaemohammadAGand my problem's with it16:48
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redeemanJef91: only 18.something here16:49
ruskieJef91, it's on t.m.o16:49
MaemohammadAGthere isn't enough space on root16:49
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Jef91Mine is 21.816:49
MaemohammadAGto download the update16:49
andre__Jef91: , and/or query in for bugs with status RESOLVED|VERIFIED|CLOSED, resolution FIXED and Target Milestone = 5.0/(1.2009.44-1)16:49
Jef91@MaemohammadAG lmao16:49
Bluewindmove /var/lib/apt to /opt MaemohammadAG16:49
MaemohammadAGhow can i check for root apps again?16:49
andre__size also depends on the localization versions.16:49
Bluewindthat was around 20mb here16:49
MaemohammadAG22 here16:49
Jef91they really should have put at least a half gig rootfs on this thing16:50
Bluewindthey could have just used that 32gb flash16:50
angasuleworkmaemo-launcher ate my RAM, bleh16:50
MaemohammadAGBluewind, shouldn't i symlink it or something?16:50
Bluewindyeah mv and ln -s16:50
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DocScrutinizer5118.5 for German16:51
kakt_usenybody got the mms on the N900?16:52
Jef91kakt_us nope16:52
Bluewindwhat to update now?
adalalkakt_us: there's the fmms.. if you look it up on talk.maemo.org16:53
DocScrutinizer51Jef91: Bluewind: they should move /var /usr and maybe a few other to 32GB /home/* as they did with /opt16:53
Bluewind/usr/bin might be needed before /opt is mounted16:53
DocScrutinizer51well so mount /usr/bin before you need it16:54
* gevaerts would consider that to be a bug16:54
MaemohammadAGBluewind, ln -s /var/lib/apt /opt/var/lib/apt?16:55
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kakt_usadalal : tnx :)16:55
nomisfor the record: the noki://0/-identifier is device specific and also gets transmitted when sending files via bluetooth. However, the video player does not make use of it in the "Categories" view16:55
Bluewindln -s behaves like cp and mv16:55
DocScrutinizer51my first linux ~1997 did exactly that16:55
Bluewindso switch that 216:55
MaemohammadAGkk ty16:55
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DocScrutinizer51mount that is16:55
lardmanhmm, interesting to see all the tablets being released or previewed these days16:56
* nomis was hoping that it would add a new Category "Movies recorded from <bluetooth name>".16:56
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adalalwhere are the backups stored on the device?16:58
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kakt_usadalal : at the memmory card?16:59
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adalali dont have a memory card inserted16:59
MaemohammadAGBluewind, apt-get isn't working16:59
MaemohammadAGassuming i did something wrong17:00
rosheniano news about changelog?17:00
Bluewindls -l /var/lib/apt17:00
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adalalanyone knows where the backup files are stored on the n900?17:01
Bluewindor well you might want to use -ld17:01
MaemohammadAG $ ls -l /var/lib/apt17:02
MaemohammadAGlrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           16 Jan 11 16:55 /var/lib/apt -> /opt/var/lib/apt17:02
Bluewindls -l /opt/var/lib/apt17:02
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MaemohammadAGs: /opt/var/lib/apt: No such file or directory17:03
MaemohammadAGls: /opt/var/lib/apt: No such file or directory17:03
Bluewindwhere did you mv the old /var/lib/apt?17:04
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DocScrutinizer51adalal: backup asks you whre to store them17:07
andre__roshenia: , and/or query in for bugs with status RESOLVED|VERIFIED|CLOSED, resolution FIXED and Target Milestone = 5.0/(1.2009.44-1)17:09
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adalalDocScrutinizer51: oh, din see that, will look into it17:12
_ishan_can someone point me to a downloadable (packaged) version of Maemo sliders example (
julianoliverfixed the email, ovi share issue: My router passes all DNS lookups to ISP NSs. While fine for HTTP it seemed it was just too slow for email and ovi sharing. I'm using my own nameservers now on the N900 (see /etc/resolv.conf or advanced connection settings) and it's all working well.17:12
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Markus23german presentation of n900:
julianoliver(for the channel log and greppage)17:13
adalal_ishan_: there's no text on page17:13
MaemohammadAGBluewind, moved it back, now i can't move it to /opt again17:13
jebbaanyone know from which repo the new kernel is being served?  Like extras, the https repos, what?17:13
adalal_ishan_: and if you want a packaged version, u can create it urself i suppose, or wait till it's packaged..17:14
MaemohammadAGNokia-N900-42-11:/var/lib# mv -r /var/lib/apt /opt/var/lib17:14
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schaschIRRECO-scratchbox-problem:::      still no "irreco-for-n900"...or is the applicatio renamed?or only avaialble on n900?17:14
BluewindMaemohammadAG: my mv doesn't know -r17:15
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schaschirreco can be installed ans started...but is complaining about "NO IR...." on scratchbox....17:15
MaemohammadAGw/o it mv: cannot rename '/var/lib/apt': No such file or directory17:15
Markus23do you try to change the links17:16
MaemohammadAGls in /var/lib shows apt, so it's there17:16
Bluewindls -ld /var/lib/apt17:16
Bluewindmight be a broken link17:16
MaemohammadAGMarkus23, moving /var/lib/apt to /opt/var/lib17:16
schaschDocScrutinizer51: are your repos  the same as mine in  /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list  ?17:17
MaemohammadAGrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           16 Jan 11 16:55 /var/lib/apt -> /opt/var/lib/apt17:17
MaemohammadAGl at the start btw17:17
Bluewindwell I have no idea where you moved your real /var/lib/apt17:17
DocScrutinizer51schasch: yes17:18
gevaertsjebba: https17:18
MaemohammadAGi moved it back to where it was Bluewind17:18
timeless_mbpandre__: bug 7770 has dataloss17:19
povbot`Bug Delete history item option is missing in history window17:19
Bluewindwell then mkdir -p /opt/var/lib; mv /var/lib/apt /opt/var/lib/apt; ln -s /opt/var/lib/apt /var/lib/apt17:19
schaschDocScrutinizer51: OK thanks...than it is a n900/scratchbox problem (i guess you did install it with the "irreco-on-n900"-application-name........17:19
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andre__timeless_mbp, plus 200 other reports. so?17:20
timeless_mbpare you working through them?17:21
timeless_mbpyou seem to be17:21
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andre__timeless_mbp, I am as far as I have bugmail about it.17:21
andre__if not - nothing I can do.17:21
timeless_mbpok, that was a change you made17:21
timeless_mbpnot sure if you get bugmail for your changes17:21
jebbagevaerts: thx.  Is this latest kernel 2.6.28-20094102.6+0m5  ?17:21
adalal_ishan_: you want us to package it?17:21
gevaertsjebba: if I'm not totally confused, it is17:22
jebbawell, we could just read the announcement, of course!17:22
_ishan_adalal: i dunno, adalal, i just wondered if it exists somewhere. can u kindly package it and put a link (also the source code link) on the tutorial for ready reference?17:23
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MaemohammadAG_Bluewind, ok done that, but there's no lock file17:27
MaemohammadAG_and apt's empty17:27
angasuleworkis there a pdf reader that allows easy selecting of words (so that I can use stardict with it)17:27
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andre__timeless_mbp: ah, that guy. yeah, sent him an email already too, but it was blocked by his server. so thanks for doing it!17:29
timeless_mbpandre__: i'm not refiling17:29
timeless_mbphis two bugs were both killed17:29
andre__I know.17:29
|R_wow, apt-get upgrade gives a bunch of hildon-application-manager-* and hildon-* and etc *-002 ... mega upgrade today? :)17:29
andre__but you sent him an email.17:29
andre__|R_, no. a quite small one acutally.17:29
|R_hehe ok17:30
siriusnovawhat do they fix?17:30
gevaertsthey fix the next release :)17:30
siriusnovaooh nice17:30
siriusnovaso the new release is out?17:30
ShadowJKBut the next release can't be installed without this one first17:31
siriusnovaso i cant flash a fresh release?17:31
* julianoliver notes the app 'Qik' is really quite amazing..17:31
ShadowJKOh you can always do that. This is about upgrading without flashing.17:31
ShadowJKAnd if you download and flash, or upgrade instead of flashing, you'll end up at the same version anyway..17:32
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rosheniawho install new update from n900? can say uname -a?17:32
|R_ShadowJK: is the space on / bug resolved? i heard the next update would need 75MB or some such free space?17:33
|R_(d/ling to MyDocs might solve that but for most people it's too complicated i guess)17:33
SplasPoodheh, visually the update seems to have changed a number of little things, or my mind is playing tricks on me17:33
rosheniaandre__, uname -a17:33
Oli``roshenia: Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Dec 11 13:33:12 EET 2009 arm v71 unknown17:34
ShadowJKThe bug is with the extras-* apps that consume space on /. Unfortunately they're not made by Nokia, and even more unfortunate, some of the authors don't even seem to want to fix it17:34
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Bluewind|R_: you can move apt's caches to /opt but you should only do that if you know how to17:34
rosheniaOli``, its with new firmware?17:34
andre__roshenia, "uname" is not a valid command17:34
Oli``roshenia: yes17:34
rosheniaLinux Nokia-N900-42-1117:34
rosheniabut there are 44-117:34
|R_Bluewind: sure do hehe, but I'm just waiting for a deluge of broken upgrade request on t.m.o :)17:34
ShadowJKI have 60.8M free on /.. going to try install the update now17:34
Bluewindroshenia: that's just the hostname17:35
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|R_i'm stalled around 42MB on /... i guess 16GB of mp3 and movies might not help hehe17:35
Bluewindhm after moving apt stuff I now have 35mb17:35
|R_Bluewind: well it depends at what point after a reboot...17:36
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|RAfter upgrading now, i'm at 36.3, will now reboot17:36
Bluewind13 min uptime17:36
Bluewindpackage lists were around 20mb17:36
MaemohammadAG_ah screw it, i'll flash and update17:37
MaemohammadAG_shutting down17:37
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andre__hrw: if you haven't done yet, can you refile "Release source code of Calendar on open licence" please? sorry, got lost :-(17:38
jebbawoo hoo MAKEDEV  :)17:38
hrwandre__: ok, will do17:38
Bluewindunable to mv and link one folder but flash the device sounds a bit strange17:38
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andrewgodwinjebba: you seem very excited about device nodes17:39
SplasPoodheh major and minor here I come!17:39
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Jef91huh, so that update actually freed up 3 megs on my rootfs17:40
Bluewindrebooing frees some17:40
Jef91what? how does that work?17:41
heinxwould it be possible to have an agent that stores ssh private keys that would use the security code as the password?17:41
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jebbaandrewgodwin: ya, can't remember offhand which, but it was preventing me from building something ;)17:41
ifreqheinx. why not use pub keys?17:41
gevaertsdon't forget that the rootfs is a compressed thing. That tends to not make free space very accurate17:41
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heinxor basically you would have your security code as the private key password17:42
Bluewindheinx: gpg-agent or ssh-agent17:42
Bluewindno idea if they are already ported17:42
heinxifreq: I need to login to servers without a password, so I have my private key on the n90017:42
jebbathe update kernel has lots of LZO changes: "lzo1x_9x.c -- implementation of the LZO1X-999 compression algorithm"17:42
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djcastonyo guys is anyone having a problem wit their vibration motor on the n900?17:42
ShadowJK72.4M free after update17:42
MohammadAGdjcaston, me17:42
MohammadAGand no, nothing helped17:43
MohammadAGhw problem17:43
jebbain fact, that's about the only changes to the kernel.  Just LZO bits17:43
djcastonie its just sounds like sometimes its running out of power or something?17:43
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MohammadAGdjcaston, it's dead17:43
heinxbluewind: yeah some kind of agent would be cool, it could time out after some hours17:43
djcastonand is this like a problem with all the units or does it allow for a replacement17:43
MohammadAGsounds like a squeek17:44
ShadowJKask Nokia Care17:44
djcastonwell mine works right sometimes, sometimes it doesnt17:44
MohammadAGI'm repairing it soon17:44
djcastonits off and on17:44
MohammadAGnot under warranty17:44
Bluewindheinx: ah actually some openssh package contains ssh-agent17:44
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djcastonhow do you plan on that? are you replacing the motor?17:45
Jef91Can I have force apt-get to install a new packagae even though there is an unmet depn for something on the system?17:45
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BluewindJef91: nopaste the whole thing pls17:45
|RShadowJK: i guess i install too many utils hehe (43MB free)17:45
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MohammadAGdjcaston, by taking it to Nokia Care17:46
ShadowJK70.0 after starting app manager ;-)17:46
MohammadAGit's an imported device so it's not covered by the warranty17:46
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|RShadowJK: hehe i once tried to add the debian armel repo, it would take 40MB just for the cache!17:46
djcastonoh i see i thoght you meant that you were repairing it yourself out of warranty practices17:47
Bluewindwell move that apt stuff out of /17:47
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|RBluewind: will do, probably after next firmware (or if needed for it :P)17:47
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djcastoni live outside of new york so since im close to the nokia flagship store i may go and see if i can get it replaced. although theyre gonna ship it out to nokia care, and i always hate not having a phone17:48
Bluewind/var/lib/apt and /var/cache/apt iirc17:48
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MohammadAG80MBs free after flash17:48
ShadowJKand Nokia care will give it to someone else17:48
djcastonits like a never-ending circle of hell17:49
MohammadAGJust a (probably stupid) question: would any other vibrating motor work?17:49
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: generally in principle yes17:49
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: in practice - it's going to be almost impossible to find another that fits17:50
MohammadAGso if I take one out of my 668017:50
djcastonim sure if we ripped it open and looked, you could use a motor from another device17:50
timeless_mbpandre__: thanks for s/ot/to/ :(17:50
MohammadAGnvm then17:50
djcastonfor you i guess thats not as bad17:50
djcastonbut id like to keep my warranty lol17:50
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MohammadAGwell I still have my warranty17:50
MohammadAGbut I'm not paying customs tax again17:51
MohammadAGit stopped working on the 2nd day17:51
SpeedEvilas a spare part17:51
SpeedEvilhowever, you need to order $170 parts17:52
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SpeedEvilIf you pop along to your local phone shop - it's likely they will have one of those or be able to order.17:52
SpeedEvilrepair shop17:52
djcastonyea i had the same thing. it was probably within the first week17:52
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SpeedEvilhoever - you will need assorted parts to reassemble17:53
SpeedEvilat the least you must use new screws17:53
djcastonive also been having rpoblems with my internal drive being marked as read only or just not showing up in the media player, etc17:53
MohammadAGit's not on the page17:53
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: odd17:54
MohammadAGthe motor17:54
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: search n900 vibrator on that page17:54
MohammadAGI did17:54
MohammadAGand I got on the N900's page17:54
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: I really fail to see the mandatory part in that (newscrerw)17:54
SpeedEvil - does that work?17:55
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: the screws are apparantly torqued hard enough that they may fail if you reuse17:55
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: it happened to one of the sites with dissasembly videos17:56
MohammadAGthanks SpeedEvil17:56
djcastonspeedevil thats an interesting piece of information17:56
MohammadAGTehkseven afair17:56
SpeedEvilsame thing happens to car cylinder head bolts. They are cranked hard enough to deform them so they don't fall out.17:56
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MohammadAGwait, so if I only need the 0.80 item I HAVE to buy 175 worth of items, even if I don't need them?17:57
VDVsxdoes anyone knows a service where I can host a private SVN/Git without paying for it :D ?17:57
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djcastonmohommad haha with the rate that n900s are failing i think you can find 174 other people17:58
MohammadAGapp manager colour was changed in the update17:58
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yes.17:58
MohammadAGdjcaston, I only need 173, I already know you :p17:58
ShadowJKi think text colour in general has changed17:59
djcastontrue true... ill take 517:59
MohammadAGyeah, the pop up GUI for updating and stuff is smaller17:59
MohammadAGso that makes 171 :p17:59
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: at least for that vendor. There may be other vendors - and it's a part used in a fair number of phones - so most cellphone repair places may stock it. however - you could buy a lot of pointers and sell them at 300% markup on ebay.17:59
djcastonalso in a completely unrelated note xchat for maemo is pretty sick17:59
SpeedEvilI'd buy 317:59
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: google the part number18:00
DocScrutinizer51djcaston: huh? xchat sick?18:01
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, checking some sites I know18:01
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djcastonit works quite well. never used it before on my comp (i use icechat) but its working quite well18:02
MohammadAGI have one :D18:02
djcastonits in extras testing18:02
MohammadAGgot a 612018:02
pupnikyaay maemo update!18:02
andrewgodwinpupnik: it's not that exciting ;)18:02
djcastontheres a maemo update?18:03
djcastonhow do i obtain such a thing lol18:03
DocScrutinizer51djcaston: no it's under my fingertips - and I can't see any sickness in it18:03
MohammadAGApp manager -> update18:03
tigertdjcaston: it will blink on your statusbar18:03
pupnikah. is fixing phone app to type * and # trivial or not?18:03
djcastondoc, well its better than irssi18:04
gevaertsdjcaston: it can't be18:04
pupnikblasphemer! :)18:04
ccookeHmm. The app manager remembers where you are in the list of apps after installing one, now. That's a pleasant improvement :-)18:04
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tigertnothing is better than irssiä18:04
mikhasthis blinking update icon is the only blinking icon I accept =)18:04
tigertwell, irssi and screen and ssh is18:04
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djcastonhaha sorry im more into a gui i guess18:05
DocScrutinizer51tigert: compare datavolume18:05
mikhasdjcaston, what kind of UI do you use from xchat?!18:05
tigertDocScrutinizer51: ?18:05
* gevaerts agrees with the screen+ssh addition :)18:05
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mikhasyou dont have "/join #channelname" buttons, do you?18:05
tigertirc is about text18:06
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tigertnot gui18:06
tigerti like good ui too18:06
DocScrutinizer51heard of quite a number of guys abandoning this config U sketched, for reasons of data transfer volume and lags18:06
tigertDocScrutinizer51: yeah18:06
DocScrutinizer51tigert: I myself never testd irssi18:06
tigertflatrate 3g18:06
tigertis good18:07
tigertfor that18:07
djcastonlol yea theres buttons and a server list and everything18:07
derf10:55:48 < LRN> Ah, i remember reading about mobile phone app that, coupled with barcode reader, was able to lookup DVD names on the Internet by their codes and automatically trigger appropriate  torrent download on remote PC18:07
derf10:56:06 < LRN> (while phone user is in a DVD store)18:07
derflardman: When are we going to see that in mbarcode?18:07
tigertand lag is ok, depends on connection of course18:07
DocScrutinizer51but I'm almost perfectly happy with xchat18:07
tigertwe have wlan on trams too18:07
djcastoni guess im just a noob i like the interface much better than just a terminal18:07
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djcastonbrb maemo update18:07
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DocScrutinizer51tigert: do click and vib on highlight for screen/irssi18:08
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VDVsxtigert, free wlan ?18:09
tigertyes free18:09
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DocScrutinizer51tigert: heh18:09
VDVsxoh, awesome, where is that country ? :D (Finland, I guess)18:09
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ShadowJKthe free wlan on trams is more of an advertisement for the 450MHz flash-ofdm wireless broadband service isn't it..18:10
tigertDocScrutinizer51: could be done via a hack18:11
tigertbut i dont want that18:11
tigertim can be a bother18:11
tigertirssi is strictly when-I-feel-like-it for me18:11
tigertirc even18:12
thomazanybody running the maemo sdk on gentoo?18:12
tigertVDVsx: yes, helsinki18:12
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tigerttyping this on a tram stop18:12
tigertluckily its just -8C18:13
Mecenice weather today. The trees look amazing! at least here in Turku18:14
VDVsxI would be more than happy if half of the airports in Europe had free wifi, or at least more reasonable fees18:14
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derfVDVsx: s/Europe/the world18:14
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VDVsxderf, eheh, I'm not asking to much18:15
ifreqvdvsx im doing something  with that prob18:15
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MohammadAGinteresting fix for the vib motor18:15
MohammadAG"Thanks for your help, but i got cheesed off with it not working so i kind of placed hard to a slapping on the table and lol its frigging working now!!"18:16
VDVsxI got a 24h card for ~$8 at SFO, USA, not bad18:16
derfVDVsx: Well, I haven't been to Europe to much recently, but the problem is pretty much universal world-wide.18:16
VDVsxbut in europe is like € 8 for an hour18:16
derfI don't see what the difference between those two are.18:16
ShadowJKheh, prepaid sim cards start sounding cheap for internet...18:16
derfIt's not like you're going to spend 24 hours in an airport.18:16
ifreqvdvsx see pm18:16
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derf(if you are, cheap internet is the least of your problems)18:17
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VDVsxderf, I spent 4~5 hours18:18
ccookeHuh. I thought the n900 couldn't do USB Host mode. Why is 'usbcontrol' in the repository?18:18
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SpeedEvilccooke: it's slightly unclear again if it can or can't.18:19
MohammadAGccooke, it's been there for some time18:19
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MohammadAGbefore the N900 was released18:19
alteregoOther maemo 5 devices .. :P18:19
tigertmore trees18:20
SpeedEvilccooke: I'm trying to chase down the datasheet of the phy chip.18:20
ccookeSpeedEvil: oh, really? Very interesting.18:20
SpeedEvilccooke: the reports from someone had seen the schematic seem to have perhaps been pessimistic18:20
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SpeedEvilccooke: as in - they are clearly right - if you have a kernel you cannot change, on a locked-diown device18:21
gevaertsMohammadAG: the electrical interface basically18:21
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Dr_Cainso they're pushing out the update now for the n900, or what?18:21
ccookeAh ha.18:21
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Mecekonttori mentioned something would be announced tonight18:22
* Dr_Cain just got a message to update18:22
Meceregarding updates18:22
ShadowJKdr_cain: a miniupdate. mostly happlication manager fixes18:22
Dr_Cainupdate your repos and see18:22
VDVsxtigert, nice, my country is also full of snow, except my area :(, biggest snowfall in the last 30 years18:22
Dr_CainShadowJK: ah alright, so not a full update yet then18:22
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wazdrussian ticket cost policy: Moscow - SPB = $20, SPB - Moscow = $3018:23
ShadowJKthe miniupdate makes the application manager able to handle the presumably big next update, the blogosphere/whatever says18:23
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xorAxAxdoes anyone know how branding looks like for the n900?18:24
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VDVsxwazd, lol, we've a similar case here, but the difference is only € 218:25
alteregoI need to come up with a plan on obtaining an N90018:25
xorAxAxi have an n900 here which claims to have vodafone branding18:25
alteregoI think by the time I've saved enough, the N1K will be out.18:25
Dr_CainShadowJK: might as well update through apt-get then ;P18:25
Dr_Cainoh it wants to do a backup now18:26
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: claims where ?18:26
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: in the shop18:26
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* MohammadAG found the vibrator location on the N90018:26
SpeedEvilI forget where you are - .de?18:26
MohammadAGit's next to the sim card slot18:26
* MohammadAG is thinking about striking it from under the battery18:27
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: try shaking the phone vigourouisly18:27
Dr_Cainoh lol, "not enough memory in target"18:27
SpeedEvilwith a firm grip18:27
MohammadAGDr_Cain, Bluewind suggested moving /var/lib/apt to /opt18:28
gevaertsuse the accelerometer to see if you shaked hard enough18:28
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: yes18:28
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ShadowJKnow how does the tweakable compression work... or did nokia turn it to max?18:28
MohammadAGI just flashed and updated18:28
MohammadAGnow restoring18:28
Dr_CainMohammadAG: yeah I just did an apt-get clean, let's see if that helps first18:28
MohammadAGdidn't help me18:29
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Dr_Cainsmart of them to download stuff to the rootfs , and then complaining about it not having enough memory ;P18:29
MeceDr_Cain, disable extra repos and then clean and all that. it helps alot.18:29
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tigertand remove installed apps for now18:29
Dr_Cainalright, I'll try that.. but first food.. brb18:29
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tigertits those that eat your rootfs18:30
tigertmost likely18:30
tigerti guess make backup first, then update, then restore app list ?18:30
pupnik"eat your fruit and don't take root"18:30
Mecewell the apt cache is hugeing with both devel ans etesting, so just disabling the repos might be enough18:30
tigertmight get them back easily18:30
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: interesting.18:31
tigertMacer: ok18:31
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: allegedly, nokia disallowed branding18:31
MohammadAGwhat's the dbus command to stop vibration again?18:31
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: i just ordered it, lets see what i get18:31
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MohammadAGI sent the incoming call pattern so I don't have any other way of ending it18:32
xorAxAxMohammadAG: now you turned your device into vibrator mode? :)18:32
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: I thought that statement was clarified latetr to say they won't18:32
xorAxAxMohammadAG: your girlfriend will love it18:32
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: ah18:32
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: reboot?18:33
Mecea special app... for the ladies18:33
MohammadAGxorAxAx, LOL my vib is broken18:33
MohammadAGjust testing it18:33
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: i am fine with a vodafone logo on it18:33
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, it's restoring apps18:33
Dr_Caina bunch of stuff puts itself in /usr/bin/18:34
Dr_Cainno wonder18:34
Dr_Cainthey should've made rootfs 512MB atleast tbh18:34
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SpeedEvilxorAxAx: a logo - sure.18:36
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SpeedEvilxorAxAx: disabling updates so that logo does not dissapear - not fine18:36
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xorAxAxSpeedEvil: i meant a hardware logo :)18:37
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, shaking didn't help18:37
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: a little widget that sits on the desktop, and can show call stats and do useful stuff that is impossible to do without the phone company - cool.18:37
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MohammadAGI hear a click before the squeak noise18:37
MohammadAGseems like there's something stuck in it18:38
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: are you dreaming? :)18:38
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SpeedEvilno - just going into what branding might mean t the extremes.18:39
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jebbaruskie: building new kernel using new upstream patch18:49
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Dr_Cainoh I have 70 MB free now after a reboot18:53
Dr_Cainon rootfs18:53
Dr_Cainand the update went in without problems18:53
SpeedEvilI have 25 after18:55
SpeedEvilthiough I have 42 apps installed18:55
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Dr_Cainnow, maybe I should put that screen protector on18:56
Dr_Cainjust recieved it from ZAGG18:56
SplasPoodI hate screen protectors.. it's like covering your couch in plastic, IMHO ;)18:56
SpeedEvilI have my couch covered in bedsheets and blankets.18:57
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pierluxX-Fade, I uploaded a package to maemo-extra-devel Friday, the build succeeded but it never showed up in the repo... see mapbuddy-0.1-118:57
MohammadAGSDK updates available
Dr_Caingonna put it on anyway, see if I hate it or not18:57
MohammadAGDr_Cain, I put a Vikuiti one on it, has a lot of air bubbles on the side but the screen's clear18:58
BluewindDr_Cain: you will have to let the device dry for some hours after that18:58
MohammadAGI suggest doing it near some steam18:58
MohammadAGafter a hot shower or something18:59
Dr_CainBluewind: yeah, I'll leave it to dry for the night I think18:59
Dr_Cainget the air bubbles out first18:59
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Dr_Cainalso, what should I clean it with first?18:59
MohammadAGwater jet :p19:00
MohammadAGI used the original cloth19:00
Bluewindeverything you need is in the box19:00
SpeedEvilWater distilled from the tears of a duck.19:00
MohammadAGthe one that was packaged19:00
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MohammadAGLOL SpeedEvil19:00
* Dr_Cain goes to find a duck19:00
Bluewindand the bubbles really go away after 2 days19:01
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Bluewindonly small ones ofc19:01
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Dr_Cainyeah we'll see how it goes19:04
Bluewindah yeah try not to have hairs between the protector and the display19:04
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hrwbug #781119:05
povbot`Bug Release source code of Calendar on open licence19:05
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hrwStskeeps: you are added19:05
BrentDCAnyone having trouble building packages with the autobuilder?19:05
hrwandre__: can you assign #7811 to Quim like it was before?19:06
hrwbye for now19:07
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BrentDCI've been trying for the last few days to upload a package to fremantle-extras-devel-non-free, and get a "Successfully uploaded packages." from dput but never get an email telling me if it succeeded or not. No update appears in the repository for the package, either.19:07
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BrentDCI'm just wondering if there is something wrong on my end or the builder's...19:07
jebbaman, they can keep the calendar, no?19:07
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jebbaBrentDC: does it appear *anywhere* or has it in the past? You may want to try bumping the version number. Or don't play with non-free software--it'll hurt your karma  ;)19:08
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BrentDCNope doesn't appear anywhere. First time using non-free :\19:09
BrentDC(my luck)19:09
andre__hrw|gone, ah thanks. sure19:09
BrentDCI guess I can bump thr package number.19:10
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ml-N900oh Orange Business Systems, how you do suck...19:11
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MohammadAG80 applications installed19:17
MohammadAGall widgets put on one homescreen :/19:17
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MohammadAGoh nice, Application manager now has catalouge icons instead of text19:20
MohammadAGI'll still use apt-get though :p19:21
Bluewindit doesn't scroll back to top when installing/removing19:21
Bluewindactually usefull now19:21
BirdFlewyeah, that was a nice touch19:21
MohammadAGdoes it support multi app install?19:22
MohammadAGas in, can I select multiple apps and install them, or is it still one at a time?19:22
BirdFlewone at a time19:23
MohammadAGdamn, apt-get it is then19:23
fralshmm, would it be wrong(tm) to chown a dir in a postinstall script?19:24
jebbafrals: possibly. what exactly for? what dir? what perms!?19:24
fralsbecause i never checked and just realised ive been running a daemon as root when it doesnt have to, and all the files it created is owned by root instead of user19:25
MohammadAGred pill was removed, +1 for apt-get yet again19:25
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fralsso i would chown the ~/.fmms/ dir to user19:25
gouverneuris the app-manager using "apt"? or does it something wierd selfcoded by nokia?19:25
Bluewindfrals: sounds fair19:26
Jef91w00t after much hacking and smashing my head against the wall I have abiword up and running on my N900!19:26
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MohammadAGgouverneur, "apt-worker" so yeah it's apt19:26
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gouverneurMohammadAG: thx19:26
fralsi figured since its in the users home it sohuld be okey to chown it to user:user19:26
MohammadAGnp, you can see it in the logs too19:27
Dr_Cainalright, screen protector applied19:27
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jebbafrals: it's not in MyDocs? That should be ok, but still a bit crufty...19:27
BrentDCHow would you get $HOME from a script run as root, though?19:27
Dr_Cainlooks good so far, hope the small bubbles go away after 2 days19:27
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BrentDCThat's the problem I ran into while doing that.19:27
BluewindBrentDC: home of user will always be /home/user19:28
Bluewindor just check /etc/passwd19:28
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slonopotamusso. any destructions from fremantle update? :)19:28
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fralsjebba: nah its in /home/user/.fmms so it wouldnt run in to problems when being attached in mass storage... and yeah, its not optimal but even though its -devel sw i realised i cant expect my users to be able to set the dirs manually :P19:28
BrentDCTrue, but hardcoding /home/user seems a bit kludgy19:29
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Bluewindgrep and cut should do the work19:29
BrentDCThere could, in theory, be other "users"19:29
Bluewindthen grep the uid19:30
gouverneurthe tool behind the app-manager is "apt", a problem with apt would be in maemo5. a problem with the application using it is related to pre-installed applications and belongs to "applications"?!19:30
slonopotamusBrentDC, why do you want to install smth in /home/user?19:30
jebbahrw|gone: "calendar-backend" is in git fwiw19:31
BrentDCI don't, frals does :)19:31
BrentDCI would recommend against it19:31
fralswhere should i put the users files if not in ~? ;o19:32
slonopotamusfrals, you don't want that.19:32
Jef91anyone have suggestions on how I can get dump information from a program? in terminal it just says "aborted" when it closes out on me19:32
fralsslonopotamus: i dont want to store the users personal messages in ~/.appname? where should i put them instead?19:32
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slonopotamusfrals, well, so use home of _current_ user :)19:33
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fralsand how do you get that in a postinstall in maemo5? :)19:34
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BrentDCWhy are you trying to _install_ personal messages?19:34
Bluewindhe's trying to fix broken perms19:35
fralsuh, im not installing, basically my daemon has been saving stuff there as root, and im trying to fix it without requiring users to chown the dir themselves19:35
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slonopotamusfrals, ... how did you get _personal_ messages at postinstall?19:35
fralsright lets try it again19:35