IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-01-10

pH5right. too bad omap3 only has the composite output :)00:00
thorbjornIf I submit a failed build another time, do I need to increase the version number? I can still see the old failed entry in the builder directory even now that I uploaded it again after fixing it.00:00
pH5thorbjorn: if the build failed, you can upload again without changing the number.00:00
woglindethorbjorn no00:00
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woglindehi ph5 btw.00:01
thorbjornAlright, thanks. I'll just see what'll happen. :)00:01
pH5woglinde: :)00:01
ShadowJKhm, felipec on his blog says the publicly available codecs can't do 720p00:01
woglindeShadowJK jepp00:01
ShadowJKI'm guessing this is probably because the actual video decode acceleration components are closed00:01
ShadowJKAnd the publicly available ones only use DSP00:02
woglindesee the theora support blog00:02
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woglindeShadowJK and the joke is there two different subcidies at ti making the dsp stuff00:03
woglindeor providing it to customers00:03
ShadowJKsounds normal00:03
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woglindeshadowjk ->
ShadowJKLike the HDAPS stuff where one section of IBM made the hw and a second made drivers, and a third reverse engineered both to give give documentation for opensource people00:03
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* mtd would like to increase the root partition size...anyone know a good apt source for gparted?00:06
mtd(err, of my n900)00:06
woglindemtd no00:06
woglindemtd for you problem the solution is optify00:06
* mtd googles for optify00:06
SpeedEvilmtd: / is on a 256M device00:07
Stskeepsmtd: ironically, root partition is in MTD, that is NAND00:07
woglindemaemo optify00:07
SpeedEvilmtd: you can't easily replace this.00:07
Stskeepswhich is 256mb size00:07
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mtdSpeedEvil, Stskeeps: ah.  ugh.00:11
* mtd is finding the root device a bit small for the bloat of pkgs I want to install.00:12
Stskeepsmtd: it is possible to clone to SD at cost of performance00:12
* mtd has 22M free00:12
mtdStskeeps: ah00:12
Flandrythere are some pretty bloated libraries that could be optified00:13
thorbjornIs private messaging disabled on I get a "thorbjorn, you do not have permission to access this page." when clicking to Private Messages.00:13
Stskeepsthorbjorn: if you have too low posts or something00:13
thorbjornHrm, so I need to spam a bit...00:13
woglindemtd as I said the problem is know00:14
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type-t# i got something for the bsddb185 thing..00:14
woglindethe solution for now is maemo optify00:14
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mtdwoglinde: sure, thanks.00:15
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type-t# anyway /usr/lib/python2.4/test/test_bsddb185.pyo .py .pyc  thing.. :P00:20
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jhpHi everyone. I have a N900 and everything is very nice, except for one thing. The email clients, when used in imap mode, does not cache the headers of your mailboxes which results in long wait times when going to you inbox, upto situations where the clients drains your phone so quickly that it can't be charged anymore.00:21
jhpI'm wandering if there is some mail / imap client that can be installed that is working and that intergrates nicely with the address book.00:22
PaulFertserjhp: it's already discussed that pre-installed e-mail and calendar apps are unusable, feel free to search/open
wazd_My shot on Mer boot video:
PaulFertserjhp: i'm sorry but i have no idea what api the address book uses, you gotta wait for somebody else to anwer.00:23
mtdPaulFertser: what alternates are recommended?00:23
PaulFertsermtd: well, i'd use mutt on any device :)00:23
mtdjhp: I was wondering about running offlineimap + local dovecot and pointing the mail client to that00:23
mtdPaulFertser: mutt FTW00:23
ShadowJKI use claws-mail on N810... I don't think it's that "ready" yet for N900 though... I haven't tried it there.00:23
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mtd...but dovecot reminds me that I can't find it in the maemo repos.00:24
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jhpmtd: What do you mean by running "offlineimap + local dovecot "00:25
xorAxAxclaws-mail is in -devel00:25
mtdis there some apt source that I can safely add that has like, the normal software one might expect from a debian install (of course I'd want to configure it in such a way that any maemo-source-provided package would always take precedence)00:25
PaulFertsermtd: what are advantages of using an additional local imap server comparing to just offline-imap?00:25
jhpDo you really mean to install a local dovecot server on your n900 and get your mail there ?00:26
mtdjhp: run offlineimap to talk to the real IMAP server and sync the mail to a local maildir00:26
mtdjhp: and then point the n900 client to that local store00:26
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mtdPaulFertser: hmm, havne't thought it through.00:26
rangeI have no problem with long wait times on the n900 when running against dovecot.00:27
papoI don't understand how HAL works00:27
mtdPaulFertser: I can't remember whether offline imap will store the mail locally in a format usable by an IMAP _client_.00:27
PaulFertserpapo: do not bother, it's deprecated already anyway ;)00:27
greenflywait I see people are mentioning mutt, did someone port mutt?00:27
xorAxAxofflineimap does maildir00:28
PaulFertsermtd: is there any MUA that can't read traditional mailboxes or maildir?00:28
mtdxorAxAx: indeed00:28
mtdPaulFertser: does the n900 pre-installed one?00:28
mtd( so?)00:28
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mtdgreenfly: would it need to be ported?00:28
greenflyI think having offlineimap on the n900 run all the time would really drain the battery00:28
papoPaulFertser: well I'm not sure. I've been profiling the charging process of the battery but something is seriously wrong00:28
mtdgreenfly: more than checking the IMAP server every 5 minutes?00:29
PaulFertsermtd: i mean a sane MUA, guess the pre-installed one can't be sane by definition :)00:29
papoPaulFertser: so I'm wondering where the number comes from which is reported by lshal00:29
greenflymtd: not necessarily, so far I've been running mutt in my screen session on a remote machine (just like irssi)00:29
mtdgreenfly: having anything run all the time would drain the battery.00:29
greenflymtd: definitely, as it has to hit the local file system00:29
mtdgreenfly: me too, but it's annoying to view images that way.00:29
PaulFertserpapo: the number in hal comes from osso-bme-hal plugin or something like that.00:29
greenflymtd: that "rsync" as it were, takes far more energy than asking an IMAP server how many new messages it has00:29
mtdgreenfly: the operations are logically exactly the same.00:30
greenflymtd: yeah, exactly. that's why I'd like a local mutt instance00:30
papoPaulFertser: hm so it's open sourced and I could check the code?00:30
greenflymtd: the implementations are way different00:30
PaulFertserpapo: sure not, nokia doesn't consider battery charging or even monitoring as anything suitable for outsiders.00:30
greenflymtd: with offlineimap you have two separate sets of files that you are trying to keep in sync both ways00:30
mtdgreenfly: "how many IMAP messages are new" (n900 pre-installed mail app asks remote IMAP server0 vs "how many IMAP messages are new" (offlineimap asks remote IMAP)00:30
greenflymtd: which means hitting the local disk and traversing the local maildir every time00:30
papoPaulFertser: no not the code for charging the battery00:31
greenflymtd: I'm talking about local resource usage00:31
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mtdgreenfly: we are talking past each other00:31
greenflymtd: offlineimap takes substantial CPU and local disk00:31
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papoPaulFertser: the code that reports back the current voltage00:31
SpeedEvilhmm. pulseaudio could be worse.00:31
greenflymtd: much more than something like, say, a fetchmail query00:31
mtdgreenfly: if you've measure offlineimap vs n900 pre-installed app, ok.  Have you?00:31
SpeedEvilyes - it's using about the same power as mp3 decoding - but looking at cpy freqs - it's mostly at 250MHz00:31
mtdgreenfly: that assertion is in no way obviously true.00:32
greenflymtd: silly question as it's not ported00:32
papohey SpeedEvil. Seems like you were right the other day, battery.voltage.current contains very odd stuff00:32
PaulFertserpapo: i'm afraid that's all closed. There was some reverse-engineering work on n810, no idea how much that is applicable to n900.00:32
SpeedEvilpapo: I am always right!00:32
SpeedEvilpapo: Except when the minute is divisible by three.00:32
mtdis there a debian arm repo that can be used with the n900 maemo repos?00:32
greenflymtd: it's not worth arguing about it I suppose, if you think that performing a remote IMAP query takes the same energy as traversing a local maildir with thousands of messages and then comparing them with a remote IMAP folder, than so be it00:33
mtdgreenfly: apples and oranges.00:33
mtdgreenfly: how do you know what to query for in that remote IMAP query?00:33
mtdgreenfly: you are comparing the local list of messages to the remote list of messages in both cases.00:33
greenflynot at all00:33
greenflywith IMAP there are no local list of messages00:34
greenflythe messages reside on the server00:34
greenflythat's the whole point of IMAP00:34
SpeedEvilPaulFertser: Well - it is complex. Someone over in ##electronics is trying to make a battery pack for his laptop. The lithium batteries can supply 35A (5*7 - there will be 5 cells in series). 7A - as that's what they measure when measured on the 10A range of a DMM.00:34
SpeedEvilPaulFertser: I'm suspecting this won't end well.00:34
greenflymtd: again, compare how long it takes offlineimap to run on your machine with running a fetchmail -c00:34
mtdgreenfly: no, of course there is a local cache00:34
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, indeed.00:35
PaulFertserSpeedEvil: am i missing some context?00:35
mtdgreenfly: i have just disconnected my n900 client from the network entirely and i see all my messages in the n900 mail client.00:35
SpeedEvilPaulFertser: of batterires - you were mentioning battery charging above00:35
PaulFertserSpeedEvil: because i have no idea why you talk about it. Though it's interesting indeed .00:35
greenflymtd: local caches vary based on the client00:35
mtdgreenfly: and I can read all the ones I've already read00:35
ShadowJKIf the batteries are specced for 7A, then putting 5 in series doesn't mean you can pull 35A. Using the 10A range on DMM to measure a battery is essentially same as short circuiting it, which is a bad idea.00:35
greenflymtd: it might cache a message /once you download it/00:35
greenflybut otherwise it usually caches only the headers until you read the message00:35
greenflyand then at that point it pulls down the full message00:35
mtdgreenfly: err, I thought that was so obvious I wouldn't mention it00:35
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - exactly.00:35
greenflymtd: I still don't understand why you are arguing about it with me00:36
greenflyofflineimap takes some time to run00:36
PaulFertserSpeedEvil: and the moral is?00:36
mtdgreenfly: and yeah, you think offlineimap is so stupid as to read each message in entirety when comparing local medssages vs remote rather than checking some message header/ids?00:36
greenflyI know. I use it all the time00:36
mtdgreenfly: so does the n900 pre-installed client00:36
greenflyit doesn't read them, it likely does some sort of limited checksum00:36
mtdgreenfly: like I said, the operations are the same.  compare remote messages verses local.  I agree implementations differ, but as neither of us have measured them I see little point in arguing about the implementations.00:37
greenflymtd: IMAP clients don't compare local and remote00:37
greenflythey ask the remote server whether there are any new messages00:37
greenflyif so, they pull down those headers00:37
greenflywhen you choose to open a particular message, the client pulls down that message's content00:38
greenflyagain, a simple comparison would be to compare fetchmail -c versus what offlineimap does00:38
mtdgreenfly: how exactly do you define "new" without reference to messages the client has already seen?00:38
greenflysince you aren't running a local IMAP server, offlineimap has to traverse each maildir00:38
mtdgreenfly: I'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of.00:38
greenflymtd: with IMAP and maildirs, it's done by messages being in the new versus cur directories00:39
papoSpeedEvil: I seriously hope that the controller is just reporting a wrong value back...00:39
greenflymtd: I'm just trying to say that offlineimap running as often as one would like it to run to be useful, would IMO drain the battery of a n900 considerably00:39
mtdgreenfly: *shrug* ok.  not obviously true AFAICS.  But thanks for trying to convince me of it :(00:40
greenflytry this: run time offlineimap00:40
greenflythen set up fetchmail with the same folders00:40
greenflyand run: time fetchmail -c00:40
jhpgreenfly: Not completly, because when you have multiple clients that are after each other accessing the same maildir, only the first one move the messages from new to cur. All clients just know the last header they have and ask if their is anything new since that header.00:40
xorAxAxis the n900 usable as a vibrator?00:41
jhpThey get all new headers, also when they are in cur.00:41
mtdgreenfly: any suggestions as to where I could get offlineimap for the n900?00:41
greenflymtd: it's a python script, right? I imagine it wouldn't take much effort to port00:41
jhpxorAxAx: I'd have to ask my wife, but I don't want to waste my N900 on that ;-)00:41
greenfly9/10ths of it would probably be optifying the ARM package00:41
xorAxAxjhp: slide it into some foil00:42
greenflyxorAxAx: seems like the n900 is a bit pricey compared to comparable sex toys00:42
mtdgreenfly: why would a python script require any porting?00:42
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mtdgreenfly: ah, I don't know about optifying.00:42
greenflymtd: "port" in the sense of moving the files to be stored under /opt00:42
mtdgreenfly: ok.00:42
greenflymtd: as the / partition on the n900 is 256Mb00:43
slonopotamusvibrator script, launcheable via ssh. muahaha00:43
xorAxAxgreenfly: indeed, but if the vibration system is rock solid00:43
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mtdxorAxAx: google for tele-dildonics and stop asking silly questions.00:43
greenflyit's possible offlineimap uses python libraries that haven't been packaged for the n900 but I don't know one way or the other right now00:43
mtdgreenfly: sure.00:43
greenflymtd: if you are comfortable repackaging .debs, it shouldn't take much effort00:43
krigHmm, I wonder if it's possible for an app to take over the camera button (especially a game) - would make it quite nice to hold the phone in portrait mode, can move with keyboard with one hand and fire with camera button on the other00:44
xorAxAxmtd: ok, will have a look00:44
greenflymtd: I'd just repackage it to move all the files to /opt/offlineimap and then have the deb post-install script set up the appropriate symlinks00:44
jhpmutt doesn't understand the address book right ?00:44
PaulFertserjhp: it understand a text file you can probably dump address book to.00:44
mtdgreenfly: I have to read about optifying.  Is there any web page you'd recommend?  Google just tells me about loads of maemo-devel messages.00:45
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: there are bluetooth devices for that.00:45
jhpBut am I correct to think that mutt does cache the headers correctly ?00:45
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: waterproof ones.00:45
greenflymtd: I'm just using "optify" as a generic term00:45
SpeedEvilkrig: see camerad00:45
xorAxAxSpeedEvil: sounds expensive00:45
greenflymtd: essentially what I mean is just the process of taking an app and moving all its files to a directory under /opt00:45
SpeedEvilkrig: however that does not quite take over the cam button - it only takes over the half-press stage00:45
greenflymtd: look, for instance, of how a package like vim is packaged on maemo00:45
mtdgreenfly: ah.  I thought you referred to maemo-optify (which I can find mentioned as apt-get installable on the mailing list but can't find in any repos) or python-optify.00:45
mtd(which is apt-get installable for me)00:46
greenflymtd: I'm not well-versed in those packages so I'm not sure maybe they'd help00:46
krigSpeedEvil: cool.. i'll have to play with that :)00:46
greenflymtd: I'd take a look at how the vim package does it (dpkg -L vim) and then try to do something similar for offlineimap00:46
* slonopotamus is really sad to see everyone buried in maemoization process instead of creating new/improving existing programs.00:48
greenflyslonopotamus: should get easier as everyone gets used to the new layout00:49
PaulFertserjhp: yes, mutt does cache the headers00:49
slonopotamusgreenfly, it should be a noop. took ubuntu package, dpkg -i, run.00:49
greenflyslonopotamus: why in the world would you think that?00:49
greenflyslonopotamus: they are different distributions for one00:50
greenflyso library versions, etc. would be different00:50
greenflyyou can't just take any .deb and install it on any existing ubuntu or debian release00:50
slonopotamussure. pick a compatible version.00:50
greenflyin the case of the n900, design decisions had to be made so that things like firmware updates could work00:51
krigslonopotamus: it's not that simple. can't even install .debs for different versions of debian without issues00:51
greenflyso if you happened to brick your device, you could potentially get it back to a running state with a firmware install00:51
slonopotamuskrig, different versions - yep00:51
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greenflyto do that, there had to be some separation between the "system" or "firmware" files, and any packages installed later00:52
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greenflythe design decision in this case (please let's not argue about it here yet again) was to use /opt00:52
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slonopotamusthat's why i'm sad about maemo00:52
krigfor one, it needs to be compiled for ARM instead of x86 to work on the N90000:52
greenflywhich, if you read the filesystem hierarchy standard, and expand your definition of "third-party applications", makes some sense00:52
palceioahi i am interested in applying to maemo for gsoc-1000:52
palceioawho do i talk to?00:53
woglinde_palceioa wait till next gsoc announcemnet00:53
slonopotamusgreenfly, the only thing tha t matters is that it involves manual changes to each and every package.00:53
greenflyslonopotamus: what we have now, is essentially the best compromise that could be made to satisfy the requirements based on the limitations of the device00:53
greenflyslonopotamus: yeah. it's a new linux distribution00:54
lardmannight all00:54
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greenflyslonopotamus: again, you can't expect a debian sid package to automatically work on Ubuntu karmic00:54
greenflythey are different distributions and if you want a package to work on both, you may have to do a little bit of work to port it00:54
palceioawoglinde_, gsoc10 will probably happen, rumours surround that. do you have any suggestions that i might do to get into Maemo dev, rather experience maemo beforehand?00:54
krigthe whole thing is pretty automatable though - I wouldn't be surprised to see auto-optification tools popping up soon that do the whole thing without any manual work00:55
greenflyin the case of the maemo5 distribution, this means taking an ARM package and organizing it so it stores its files in /opt00:55
fralsanyone feel adventurous and needs to add a new GPRS APN on their N900? please test fAPN from testing and vote for it ;-)00:55
greenflykrig: yeah, I mean it's the kind of thing a script could easily do00:55
slonopotamusgreenfly, i can expect debian source package to build and work correctly under ubuntu _without_ any modifications.00:55
SpeedEvilfrals: is there any way to do the reverse?00:55
greenflyie: "Take all packages under /usr, move to /opt/packagename, create symlinks"00:55
palceioasounds cool frals00:55
SpeedEvilfrals: to extract what APN is being used00:55
slonopotamusgreenfly, claiming that current decision was 'the best' needs some proof.00:56
greenflyslonopotamus: again, no amount of complaining is going to make / on the n900 greater than 256Mb00:56
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mtdfrals: saw fapn but I don't know how it'd be useful, sorry.  need to google APN.00:56
greenflyit's NAND flash00:56
fralsshould be a way to get the currently used one with dbus or libconic, not sure though00:56
slonopotamusgreenfly, heck, don't put / on nand flash and this limitation is gome00:56
kriggreenfly: well, one thing that I at least think was a major mistake was allocating most of the MMC to a FAT32 partition. That's just.. icky.00:56
infobotslonopotamus meant: greenfly, heck, don't put / on nand flash and this limitation is gone00:56
greenflyslonopotamus: tell me your best effort design decision considering a 256Mb NAND flash, and 32Mb regular flash, that allows third parties to install packages but also allows someone to fix a broken device with a firmware install00:57
fralsmtd: adds a new itnernet access point for GPRS in "internet connections" on the device, currently the UI doesnt permit adding one00:57
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greenflyalso, for fun, add on the requirement that when a user plugs in a USB drive into a windows system, that it can read and store some files somewhere00:57
ali1234greenfly: put / on NAND and /usr on flash, and don't install any firmware parts in /usr00:58
greenflyer, not usb drive, when the user plugs in the n900 to a windows machine I meant00:58
slonopotamusgreenfly, i don't see why firmware install should be any different from reinstall on desktop.00:58
kriggreenfly: that's what the SD expansion slot is for ;P00:58
greenflyali1234: doesn't the firmware include things like X, and other important libs like python?00:58
SpeedEvilgreenfly: that could in principle be done with a FS->FAT translation layer00:58
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ali1234greenfly: yes. so what?00:58
SpeedEvilgreenfly: that would be more code though00:58
slonopotamusgreenfly, just throw away nand. and leave all the rest as is, putting / on sd.00:59
greenflyali1234: shouldn't that be under /usr according to the FHS?00:59
SpeedEvilI organise my linux boxes according to the FSM.00:59
SpeedEvilAll hail his noodlyness.00:59
ali1234greenfly: so what?00:59
greenflyslonopotamus: how does firmware upgrades versus 3rd-party packages work in your model?01:00
krigeverything installs to /pasta01:00
SpeedEvilkrig: naah. ~-~~~~~01:00
greenflyali1234: so now all the firmware packages and libraries (including python) are in /bin and /sbin and /lib?01:00
slonopotamusgreenfly, the same way it works on your desktop.01:00
mtdfrals: thx01:00
ali1234greenfly: yes01:00
SpeedEvilunion FS01:00
greenflyI can't believe now I have to argue on Nokia's behalf for /opt with all of you01:00
luke-jrgreenfly: firmware is under /lib/firmware01:00
SpeedEvil / is RO01:00
ali1234greenfly: you don't have to, you won't convince us anyay01:01
greenflyI'm just saying that it was a design decision they made at the time to try to compromise between a few competing needs01:01
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greenflyit works okay01:01
mtdgreenfly: heh01:01
slonopotamus /opt is just crap.01:01
greenflyI don't necessarily like it myself but it's not like it's going to be changed01:01
greenflyslonopotamus: I hate /opt myself, I'm a /usr/local guy01:01
ali1234even the way /opt/ has been implemented is crap01:01
luke-jrgreenfly: /usr should never be needed to boot.01:01
greenflybut oh well. it's where it is01:01
greenflyluke-jr: no offense, but duh01:01
greenflyit's stated clearly in the FHS01:01
ali1234they could have implemented it such that configure --prefix=/opt would work01:01
slonopotamusgreenfly, i just said i was sad :P01:01
ali1234but instead they decided to invent a new and broken system01:02
woglinde_hi lau01:02
kriggreenfly: honestly, it's obvious they realised there was a problem WAY too late, and this is an emergency fix. Not to say it ruins everything, it's not a big deal01:02
woglinde_hi ali I meant01:02
luke-jrgreenfly: also, FHS doesn't require X under /usr01:02
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greenflyluke-jr: no it doesn't, but it seems to obviate moving it to /bin01:02
greenflyer, not obviate, but it seems to restrict it01:02
greenflysince you want / to be as small as possible01:03
luke-jrso there's no X unless your /usr mounts01:03
luke-jrthat's livable as long as console works01:03
greenflythis means trying to restrict libs and binaries in /bin, /sbin/, and /lib to only what you must have to mount /usr01:03
ShadowJKon NetBSD, all extra packages are installed with a prefix of /usr/pkg... a similar solution would be nice :-(01:03
Macermen's warehouse is talking about how you rent a tux for your wedding day?01:03
Macerwtf rents a tux for their wedding?01:03
greenflypeople who don't own a tux?01:04
luke-jrMacer: no clue, I just wore whatever was in my dresser :D01:04
Macerso poor people?01:04
ali1234people who listen to marketing?01:04
Maceri mean it was like this huge wedding they were showing and they were talking about renting a tux?01:04
greenflyMacer: depends I guess01:04
Macerthat's just ghetto01:04
Maceri mean i could understand if you elope or something01:04
Macerbut for a REAL wedding ?01:04
mtdMacer: how many tuxes do you own?01:04
greenflyin the modern age, at least in the US, there are fewer and fewer occaisions (at least in the middle class and below) to need a tux01:05
luke-jrMacer: why *not* rent for a one-time thing? :P01:05
Macerwell. a tux 1 but it's old. but i have a lot of suits01:05
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greenflyeven at the opera most people wear a regular suit01:05
greenflyat least here in san francisco01:05
Macera tux is a little different than a nice suit tho :)01:05
SpeedEvilI bought a suit at the beginning of the year.01:05
jhpPaulFertser: Are their for mutt on the n900 ?01:05
SpeedEvilWore it once.01:05
Macerluke-jr: because it is something you keep01:05
luke-jrMacer: packrat01:05
SpeedEvilThis year I have lost ~15kg.01:05
PaulFertserjhp: no idea, sorry01:06
Macerluke-jr: not really01:06
woglinde_hm mutt with touchscreen01:06
mtdMacer: if one gets married before 3pm, it's annoying to get a morning suit that one will rarely use.01:06
SpeedEvilAnd plan to lose a total of 25Kg01:06
SpeedEvilSo it's useless.01:06
luke-jrsuits are overrated01:06
PaulFertserwoglinde_: i tried it and it's ok01:06
woglinde_PaulFertser *g*01:06
luke-jrif it keeps you warm and isn't an eyesore, good01:06
greenflyMacer: I know when I got married, I didn't have the extra money to buy a tux01:06
Macergreenfly: then you should have waited until you did :)01:07
luke-jrMacer: you're not one to talk ;)01:07
greenflyseems like sound logic01:07
luke-jran expensive ring, I can understand01:07
Macergreenfly: well. in my eyes. if you have to rent a tux for one of the most important days of your life where you will be married to a woman you love...01:07
Macerthen you don't have enough money to support a family :)01:07
luke-jrit represents financial security and can provide for a bit in case of the husband dying01:08
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mtdgreenfly: you're not married, I take it.  Especially if you told your fiance "I'd love to get married, but let's just wait until I get my tux."01:08
Maceri mean do women rent their wedding dress? that doesn't sound normal01:08
mtdMacer, sorry01:08
krigNew version of jamaendo, test/vote please:
Macermtd: i was ;) but i eloped.. wore a suit that i owned though haha01:08
pillarMacer it happens01:08
* mtd can't believe he's participating, goes back to configuring offlineimap on his n900.01:08
luke-jrMacer: buying clothing you will never wear again is just insane01:08
Macerluke-jr: if you say so :)01:09
greenflymtd: I was being sarcastic01:09
SpeedEvilThe big question is about storage of clothing you use once. Do you put it in /opt or Mydocs?01:09
Macermtd: hahaha01:09
mtdgreenfly: sorry that was meant for Macer01:09
slonopotamusSpeedEvil, :D01:09
MacerSpeedEvil: Mydocs/Pictures ;)01:09
luke-jrmtd: Macer's wife left him or something01:09
Macerluke-jr: no. we ended it bitter and in divorce .. it was a mutual hatred for one another towards the end01:10
Macermaybe because we didn't get married in the church?01:10
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mtdMacer: maybe because you told her you needed to delay the wedding until you bought a tux.01:10
* mtd laps himself, back to .offlineimaprc01:11
luke-jrMacer: there is no such thing as divorce, kthx01:11
Macermtd: naw.. we eloped. went and got her a very nice dress and i already had a few nice suits one of which i wore ;)01:11
Macerluke-jr: if you say so too01:11
Macermtd: but when i got married i knew i could get a tux if i needed to is what i'm saying.01:11
luke-jrby mugging someone?01:12
mtdMacer: your ideas are fascinating and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.01:12
Macerwell. what's more important? the marriage or the love?01:13
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mtdMacer: you don't have to justify anything to me.01:14
luke-jrMacer: the marriage is more important01:14
Macerif a woman truly loves you she will not care about a marriage .. or if you told her that you wanted to wait so you can be on more firm ground so when you start a life together everything will be worked out instead of rolling the dice and taking a chance with love alone .. also as a man you would want to give the woman you love the wedding she wants01:14
Macerluke-jr: i disagree ;)01:15
luke-jrif it's about a wedding, someone has the wrong intentions01:15
mtdwow, someone please argue about /opt and LSB-compliance again.01:15
luke-jr/opt is lame01:16
Macermtd: haha. sorry ;) just thought it was odd that they showed the large wedding with "rent a tux"01:16
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Macerluke-jr: you're right. /opt is lame01:16
Macerwho came up with it?01:16
Maceri bet it was redhat01:16
luke-jrheck, FHS is lame too01:17
Oprahthought opt was before redhat01:17
mtdMacer: err, /opt's been around a lot longer than RH01:17
luke-jrApple had the right idea with /Applications and crap01:17
luke-jrbut they overcomplicated it01:17
mtdMacer: yes, I find that odd too.01:17
Macermtd: has it?01:17
Macerbsd maybe? for "optional" stuff?01:17
mtdMacer: sure.  solaris had it ages ago.01:17
krig"/Applications and crap" <- I like that01:17
luke-jrand each package should have its own isolated directory01:18
mtdluke-jr: s/Applications/opt/01:18
mtdluke-jr: it's the same thing01:18
luke-jrmtd: except 'opt' is lame01:18
Macerwasn't someone working on that?01:18
luke-jrand doesn't work in practice01:18
mtdluke-jr: Applications sucks worse. too much typing.01:18
Macerthe pkgs with the dirs i mean01:18
luke-jrmtd: you don't have a tab key?01:18
xorAxAxreal men do not use directories01:18
luke-jroh, right, this is #Maemo01:18
luke-jrNokia stole it01:18
type_tc:\"Documents and Settings"\user\"Application Data"01:19
MacerxorAxAx: haha. well. i was going to say that it reminded me of windows01:19
krigno idea if it works01:19
Macerwhere everything is in its own place01:19
luke-jrMacer: I implemented something like that a long time ago IIRC01:19
luke-jrMacer: Windows does *some* things right01:19
Macerbut then again i think windows uses far less shared stuff which is where the problem lies01:19
mtdtype_t: indeed01:19
SpeedEvilpapo: the voltage in that graph is clearly not real.01:19
krigehm. DLL hell anyone? and manifests.. shit. Microsofts system is utterly broken.01:19
luke-jrkrig: I said some, not 'all' or even 'most'01:20
SpeedEvilpapo: I keep meaning to actually work out where that is from. I suspsect twl403001:20
luke-jrand libraries are packages too01:20
luke-jrthey each need their own isolated dir01:20
Macerluke-jr: that's insane :)01:20
luke-jrMacer: NO U01:20
krigluke-jr: I'd agree, but the only thing I can think of that's in the 'right'-list is keyboards01:20
krigthey make pretty good keyboards01:20
Macerkrig: i still have an old clicky ibm keyboard01:20
SpeedEvilkrig: mice01:21
Macerthe one with the mechanical keys01:21
SpeedEvilat least some of them01:21
SpeedEvilkrig: I also have a microsoft pen, that I liked.01:21
krigMacer: been looking at a Das Keyboard, supposed to be as good as the old ibm ones.. but the money has kept me away :P01:21
Macerkrig: that thing is a beast01:21
Maceri could probably knock someone over the head with it and kill them then plug it right back in and start typing without even noticing any change01:22
Maceri think it was pre made in china :(01:22
Macerwow china made stuff horrible01:22
xorAxAxMacer: but that wasnt the reason for divorce? :)01:22
SpeedEvilI want
redeemankrig: das keyboard version 2 is atleast awesome01:22
redeemankrig: well worth the money01:22
MacerxorAxAx: no. i hit her over the head with it but she survived01:22
krigyeah, there are spousal issues with a clickety keyboard as well :P01:22
xorAxAxi have one of the most silent keyboards01:23
xorAxAxmeeh, tpb doesnt work01:23
MacerMS does make an awesome keyboard tho01:23
Oprah... an iPhone...01:23
xorAxAxi want to leach some rachmanninoff01:23
Macertheir newer ergo type keyboards are pretty nice to type on01:23
Maceri thought their mouse was a little out thre though. the sidewinder with the weights and shit01:23
SpeedEvilI was really surprised at how good the n900 kwyb is.01:24
Macerisn't it like the n810s?01:24
xorAxAxi hated the n810 keyboard01:24
SpeedEvilnever used n81001:24
Macerme too01:24
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SpeedEvilI know that - with maybe 5 hours practice on the n900 - I'm up to maybe 95% accuracy01:24
Oprahyay US telecom "customer service"01:24
SpeedEvilwith my eyes closed.01:25
Maceri think the G1 actually has an awesome keyboard01:25
luke-jrC760 = best handheld keyboard so far01:25
Oprahthat's 90 minutes of my life i'll never get back :/01:25
OprahC860 with less travel would be better01:25
luke-jrOprah: you're supposed to do productive things concurrently01:25
Macerluke-jr: i was going to tm snap on qwerty for phones that didn't ahve them01:25
Oprahi couldn't01:25
Macerlike a snap on qwerty for the nexus01:25
luke-jrMacer: you can't trademark ideas, fail01:25
Oprahit wasn't hold, it was arguing01:25
Macerwell.. patent01:26
Oprahtell that to the USPO01:26
luke-jrMacer: still can't, prior art01:26
SpeedEvilyou can patent stuff with prior art01:26
Macerprior art?01:26
Macersomeone drew a snap on keyboard or something?01:26
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SpeedEvilyou just have to describe it in ways the patent examiner won't realise it.01:26
luke-jrMacer: translation "I thought of it first"01:26
luke-jrSpeedEvil: it wouldn't hold up01:27
Macerdoes someone sell this already?01:27
luke-jryou don't have to use patents01:27
luke-jror ideas01:27
Flandrymmm prior art01:27
luke-jrall someone has to do is prove someone thought of it before you did01:27
SpeedEvilluke-jr: no.01:28
luke-jrin theory01:28
SpeedEvilluke-jr: they have to prove they thought of it first. AND THEN WIN IN A FUCKING EXPENSIVE COURT CASE.01:28
Flandryprior not-so-art
luke-jrSpeedEvil: well, true XD01:29
MacerFlandry: after seeing that first one i refuse to see the second one01:29
Maceranyways. i'm going back to watching bones01:29
SpeedEvilPatents are only slightly less broken than copyright term extension.01:29
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MacerSpeedEvil: loved it when disney was able to lobby01:29
Macerwhen mickey mouse was about to expire01:29
Flandryback to your booth then01:29
Macermust be nice to have the law bent to your will like that :)01:30
ShadowJKthey're about to abolish the practice of prior art anyway01:30
SpeedEvilSomething like the original - maybe a bit more is sane. ~25-30 years or 15 years after death whichever is sooner.01:30
ShadowJK(the one who gets a patent approved first gets it, regardless of who invented it first)01:31
luke-jrstill insane01:31
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Flandrythat's even worse01:31
luke-jrit should only be for 5 years after release to public01:31
SpeedEvilhasn't US always been first to file?01:31
Flandryfor some reason Caldera comes to mind01:32
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philoany one have some info on the "graphic chip"  in the nexus ?01:33
luke-jrphilo: there is a good chance it's the same one as in the XBox36001:33
philocomparing it to the gpx ?01:33
philothat's quite good01:33
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arachnistluke-jr: no kidding01:35
luke-jrAMD Z430 GPU01:35
luke-jractually an upgrade from XBox360's01:35
philoso i guess it is far better than the gpx on the n90001:36
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arachnistwonder what's the battery life of nexus01:36
luke-jrphilo: not necessarily01:36
philoreally ?01:37
philodo you where i can read a litle on it ?01:37
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luke-jrQualcomm bought the IP outright, so it'll probably remain fairly closed01:38
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mtdwtf is up with the org.maemo.playback dbus message spam (every 10s)?01:39
luke-jrsome thread Google found says SGX is 14 MPoly/s vs Z430 at 22 MPoly/s01:39
arachnistmpolys and fill rates are not everything01:39
luke-jrarachnist: please feel free to do a useful comparison then :)01:40
arachnistluke-jr: lets run some real-world benchmark, like glxgears ;)01:40
papoSpeedEvil: Hm ok01:40
luke-jrarachnist: sounds good, remind me when I have 3D accel working01:41
papoSpeedEvil: It's going to be real hard to work out some decent predictions if the data is just that borked :(01:41
luke-jrdon't have Nexus/Snapdragon, but I do have that gfx chipset01:41
philothere so much hardware now01:42
philobut none of them well documented01:42
pupniki want a racer game for openstreetmaps01:43
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* pupnik ponders01:43
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arachnisti wonder how hard/easy would it be to get ar.parrot controllable from N90001:45
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ShadowJK“'a fortnight ago' is not a legal date.” <- bugzilla sucks ;-)01:49
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andre__ShadowJK, file an enhancement request upstream ;-)01:50
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jhpAre deb packages for the N810 and the N900 compatible?01:57
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jhpI have found a mutt package for the N810.01:57
ml-N900they -might- work, but there is no guarantee01:57
ml-N900I would recommend against it01:58
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N900evilatmosphere bought current don't extras-devel finding getting have interrupt jailbreaking kirkcaldy lesson measurement non-free other picturesque qauality ridiculous some ther usb vcam which xchat yoiu zda01:59
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krigthat's... almost a sentence there01:59
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N900evilI was just seeing what completion had in the dict.02:00
N900evilIs it possible to train it - I'd like to dump a few meg of my output through it.02:01
N900eviloh - that was what I came here for. Can the scrollbar at the bottom of fbreader be turned off? i keep hitting it accidentally.02:03
N900evilah. toggle indicator under view.02:05
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woglinde40 mio hits in december02:13
woglindefor maemo.org02:13
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mtdanybody know why I can't dbus-send the method call to (fremantle)?02:22
mtddbus complains that the method (no args) doesn't exist, but;a=blob;f=libmodest-dbus-client/src/libmode\02:23
mtdst-dbus-api.h;h=b06ac279c04d1c2e059e25d4444ac0a815bd687a;hb=HEAD02:23 it does.02:23
mtd(sorry for the botched paste)02:24
mtdI'm doing dbus-send --session --print-reply --type=method_call /com/nokia/modest
mtdit appears to succeed but if I run dbus-monitor --session I see the call has failed.02:24
jebbadbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply \02:25
jebba/com/nokia/csd/call string:"$1" uint32:002:25
jebba$1= fone number mtd02:25
mtdjebba: thanks, but I'm trying to get modest to send/receive email, not get the phone to ring a number :)02:25
jebbaah, sorry kind of spaced out tired here heh02:26
mtdjebba: np :)02:26
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mtdit seems has taken over email accounts - not sure if that's right or by apt-get installing nokiamessaging I did something stupid.  argh :(02:30
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ShadowJKoops, how did I enter bug numbers into bugzilla comments so that they show up as links02:43
gavin"bug 12345" gets linkified automatically02:43
povbot`Bug was not found.02:43
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ShadowJKI wrote #6635 and that didn't get linkified. Wish I could edit comments :-)02:44
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woglinde1opie ion my simpad feels faster like the n90002:52
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jebbai wish you could preview bug reports/comments in bugzilla...03:05
timeless_mbpShadowJK: just learn from your mistake03:08
timeless_mbpbugzilla is natural language based03:08
timeless_mbpyou can  have 'bug x', 'comment x', 'bug x comment y', 'attachment x'03:08
timeless_mbpmaking a number magically do something is just asking for trouble03:09
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ShadowJKI must've been confused after failing to use natural language in date :)03:09
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timeless_mbpif you mean query03:11
ShadowJKiirc there was an iso date and a mention that relative is ok, so I tried it the cvs way :)03:11
ShadowJKin advanced search03:12
sp3000e.g. 1d works03:13
ShadowJKso many differentg syntaxes with so many things I don't need too often :)03:14
ShadowJKoh well, could be worse, I could have put bbcode or typed <a href... into bugzilla comments03:15
* sp3000 gets into the oh let's not paint every frame state03:15
sp3000it's annoying because it makes it look like things are sluggish, when ...they aren't :)03:15
sp3000ShadowJK: yeah people frequently enough do try those03:16
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ShadowJKI'm afraid to ask, but since the mails sent by bugzilla aren't threaded, I assume that replying to them doesn't do anything useful?03:18
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sp3000well, they can thread, they're In-Reply-To the opening mail03:19
ShadowJKis there a mailing list?03:20
sp3000clients I suppose can be picky about threading together the messages if the "parent" is missing03:20
ShadowJKi dont have the opening if I'm just added to cc after adding a comment03:20
sp3000I'm not quite sure by what means tbird is threading them in my case, either that header, or by guessing by subject03:21
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FlandryROFL finally got a response to my bug report submitted on Ubuntu 0810 more than a year ago03:26
sp3000probably mozbug181446, fixed for tb303:26
Flandry"not enough detail" is basically what he said03:26
sp3000oh, wait, that was released?03:27
Flandrylet me go back and reinstall edgy or whatever that was and check03:27
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sp3000right, december03:27
sp3000timeless_mbp: "Note that if the help popups are hidden by form element scroll bars, this is a bug in your browser, not in Bugzilla." but my browser doesn't have that bug, couldn't it sniff better? :)03:28
timeless_mbpwe're too lazy :)03:29
timeless_mbpfeel free to try to file a bug03:29
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sp3000but I don't want flaming red notes that don't apply to me :(03:29
sp3000Components are second-level categories; each belongs to03:30
sp3000particular Product. Select a Product to narrow down this03:30
sp3000list.03:30 the wrapping I get :)03:30
timeless_mbpShadowJK: replying will get you a friendly letter from the postmaster saying that there's no such useful account03:30
sp3000vera/dejavu sans = fairly wide03:30
timeless_mbpif you're lucky03:30
timeless_mbpShadowJK: in case you haven't read the internet memos on the subject of smtp03:31
timeless_mbphere's a brief summary:03:31
timeless_mbpSMTP does not encode any trust information about senders <PERIOD>03:31
papoI can't even send SMS with this "phone"... very odd. Sending to most of my contacts work but if I want to send an SMS to my girlfriend, it keeps failing03:31
timeless_mbpas such, any system that accepts messages for public viewing and assumes attribution based on those fields is asking for abuse03:31
sp3000signing! except ...well, yeah.03:32
SpeedEvil SMTPs problems are simple to fix.03:32
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papoanyone experienced something similar? If I resend, it fails again. Seems to be this:
SpeedEvilFirst obtain a delorian.03:33
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papoSpeedEvil: I haven't worked out the flux capacitor completely yet :(03:33
* SpeedEvil is trying to understand how ioctls work in the kernel.03:34
SpeedEvilI can't find where they get fefined.03:34
SpeedEvil(twl4030-madc is the module which reads the battery volts and stuff)03:34
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papoSpeedEvil: Oh I've been looking for this module earlier03:35
sp3000papo: that post seems to say the message does get through but the state is eventually shown incorrectly?03:35
SpeedEvilah - right - got it03:36
paposp3000: the thread is about sms which fail to deliver03:36
SpeedEvilstatic long twl4030_madc_ioctl(struct file *filp, unsigned int cmd,03:36
paposp3000: someone complained that this happened on new year's eve which is not exactly a reliable source03:37
paposp3000: but the post I quited is precisely what happens to me... send SMS, wait 2 seconds, delivery failed03:37
paposp3000: not sure if the sms made it through, though... maybe someone has 30+ sms tomorrow :(03:38
sp3000pretty much all the posts on the thread seem to say the messages do go through03:38
papoSpeedEvil: can you point me to the source? or is this part of the "official" linux kernel (
sp3000do you have the receipt notification thinger enabled (guess it shows a banner then)03:39
paposp3000: yes03:39
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papoit shows a banner which says "sms delivery to <girlfriend> failed"03:39
SpeedEvilpapo: it's the kernel that's linked prominently on the maemo website - I forget exactly wehre03:39
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papoSpeedEvil: maybe?03:41
sp3000or perhaps it's a confusion of some sort between "failed forever" and "failed for now"03:41
paposp3000: hm yeah that's possible, she often switches it off03:42
SpeedEvilpapo: that looks like the right place - buit I got the tarball and patches03:42
paposp3000: I sent one more sms to myself between my trials to myself which got delivered properly... odd03:42
papoSpeedEvil: hm possible that I'll get a tarball when I unpack the deb... at least it can't be *that* wrong03:43
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papoSpeedEvil: oh or you mean the original tarball and the debian diff?03:43
Flandry"We don't have caller ID" -- T-Mobile customer care03:44
sshinobigreets all03:44
Flandrythat's  hilarious03:44
SpeedEvilpapo: no - there is a normal kernel tarball somewhere - and a normal kernel patch03:44
SpeedEvilFlandry: ass-hats.03:44
papoSpeedEvil: hm ok03:44
Flandryyeah only took three separate calls to get them to transfer my VZW number :X03:45
Flandryand then they didn't know what number i was calling on. How am i going to know when i got it this week? :D03:45
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timeless_mbpwhich is linked prominently from the irc channel topic...03:51
timeless_mbpFlandry: at least you haven't had two credit card vendors in a row lie to you03:51
papotimeless: aw thank you. Time for the brown paper bag03:51
timeless_mbpDiscover gave me instructions for disabling their Firefox addon which were tailored for IE03:51
timeless_mbpCiti suggested that they don't test their addon for Firefox03:52
Flandrynot since last summer anyway03:52
timeless_mbpwhich is clever since they've specifically packaged it for firefox03:52
* timeless_mbp can't quite imagine how one would write software *specifically* for a given product and not test it at all03:52
* timeless_mbp notest that unzipping a file from a "network" drive is incredibly slow03:53
Jagoooh, a doom engine port is in devel03:53
Flandry-testing actually03:54
Flandryplease test :D03:54
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JagoFlandry: well it does work, havent tried any custom WADs tho03:55
JagoFlandry: my only issue is that fullscreen mode is not really03:56
Jagothe top bar just stays black03:56
JagoFlandry: if thats your work, is fitzquake-sdl next? :)03:58
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Flandryfitzquake i'm not familiar with it03:59
Flandryi saw a lot of ports when looking for one to port04:00
Flandryand that didn't come up04:00
Flandrywhat's it offerr?04:00
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woglinde_ph5 still awake?04:03
JagoFlandry: fitzquake-sdl is moderately new (as in 1-2 years old), but fitzquake itself is generally considered the golden standard for quake engine among content creators (I am a mapper myself)04:03
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papoSpeedEvil: Hm this is confusing:
JagoFlandry: it improves compatibility, bumps up engine limits, fixes some bugs, while retaining the original looks of the engine and without resorting to throwing silly effects at the user that actually look retarded (like darkplaces)04:04
Flandrymust be a fork of one of the bigger projects04:04
papoSpeedEvil: the POWER_SUPP case seems to set the percentage in intervals of 25 (mostly), however the output of lshal is more precise04:05
JagoFlandry: it does change the visuals in SOME ways, like it fixes fullbrights (which didnt work in glquake, but did work in softwarequake), adds model animation interpolation, but in general keeps everything faithful to the original04:05
JagoFlandry: fitzquake IS an original project04:05
SpeedEvilpapo: yeah - you're going to need to work out what actually touches hardware - or cached information - when you do lshal04:05
SpeedEvilpapo: then you need to work out what method it's using.04:06
papohm makes sense04:06
JagoFlandry: if you want to talk to main developer, look at
papoSpeedEvil: I was just poking around04:06
JagoFlandry: he also frequents IRC on QuakeNet04:06
SpeedEvilpapo: then work back through the kernel to see where it reads from hardware - and if it's being retarded anywhere04:06
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crashanddiewassuuuuup bitches!!!04:09
crashanddieFinally back in the UK Muwhahahahahahahahaha04:09
* SpeedEvil locks his door.04:09
crashanddieoh man04:09
crashanddieworst trip ever04:09
SpeedEvilThe snowy UK.04:09
crashanddiewell, better than snowy mountains04:09
GeneralAntillesI'm sorry, crashanddie.04:09
crashanddieI paid GBP 850 over the past 4 days04:10
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crashanddiejust to try and get back to the UK04:10
SpeedEvilThe sort of weather that I really wish I was 9 again.04:10
crashanddiehey GeneralAntilles, what's up mate?04:11
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, sitting here with a stomach full of spaghetti finishing off and waiting for people to get online for MW2.04:11
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GeneralAntilless/off/off my beer/04:11
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: crashanddie, sitting here with a stomach full of spaghetti finishing off my beer and waiting for people to get online for MW2.04:11
crashanddieyou on 360, right?04:11
papoSpeedEvil: so I have to look for ioctls? To be honest I have no idea how hal works and where it gathers its information from04:11
crashanddieshame or I would've joined ya :P04:12
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, yeah, I'd've played it on PC but ALL of my friends have 360s.04:12
crashanddienha, PS3 ftw04:12
SpeedEvilpapo: so strace lshal - find out where it pokes. and then trace back from that. Or google.04:13
papook, thank you04:13
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Chikuwhat about this
* SpeedEvil can't click on that link without getting cold.04:19
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* SpeedEvil wonders if there is a way to get pidgin to open a link with the keyboard.04:19
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BootDiskTired of NIGGERS?  Sick of their monkeyshines?  Would you rather never have to deal with the fecal-colored beast?  Then you are not alone!  Join us at Chimpout Forum!  At Chimpout WE ARE NOT WHITE SUPREMACISTS!  We welcome anybody who isn't a NIGGER and who HATES NIGGERS!
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microlithpidgin on the phone04:49
corecode_dammit, seems my n900 is not being delivered in time :/04:50
microlithat least until a more seamless plugin is developed for AIM/MSN04:50
corecode_jabber + transports?04:50
microlithhaven't looked at jabber04:50
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corecode_that's at least my plan04:50
corecode_once the phone arrives04:50
corecode_ups ground not taking 3 but 6 days?04:51
sheepbathow well does the standard client log chats?04:51
corecode_i was planing on using a logging extension on the server04:51
corecode_then i could use a different client someplace else to download the records04:51
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sheepbathow about encryption? does it do OTR?04:57
corecode_who it04:58
corecode_the extension?04:58
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sheepbatsorry, I mean the standard IM client04:58
sheepbatI suppose you wouldn't know04:58
gouverneursheepbat: no crypting04:58
gouverneurnot even mime extensions for emails for signatures etc are supported yet04:59
corecodeif only it was opensource05:00
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sshinobiI'm having trouble running BosWars. Whenever I try to download it from the Maemo Repository, it returns "Operation Failed."05:13
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mikkovif you are using n900 it's not supposed to work05:20
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KamuiN900anyone know if theres a way to delete tags from the sharing services?05:23
KamuiN900i have unwanted tags i created when trying to set up pxelpipe05:23
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KenYoungDoes anyone know where I can find a good explanation of how to use the optify script in a package I am building?06:54
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lucentFlandry: T-Mobile support is crippled by ... well they're just bound at the ankles and dangling a few feed under ocean waves08:19
lucentdangling a few feet/metres as you wish08:20
KenYoungI just uploaded my first package for the N900.   It's called "orrery", and it displays the night sky (and other astronomical stuff).   Can I talk anyone into trying to install it?08:21
* lucent grumbles08:22
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Jef91evening all08:27
* lucent \o/ for Chicagoan08:27
KenYoungJef91, Hi!08:27
* Jef91 is from Chicago08:27
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Jef91maemo is quite this evening08:31
KenYoungJef91, Yup - I'm looking for a sucker to try out my first package for the N900.   I don't suppose I could talk you into it...08:32
Jef91Whats the package?08:33
KenYoungJef91, orrery - it displays the night sky, and some other astronomical information.08:33
Jef91oh, nifty08:34
KenYoungIt's a maemo port of
Jef91Is it at least optifyed?08:34
KenYoungYup.   I manually optified it, because I dodn't really understand how the optify script works.08:35
Jef91Link me, I'll give it a go08:35
KenYoungso to my postinst script optifies.08:35
Jef91gotta wait for this shit to compile anyways08:35
KenYoungThe package can be obtained here:
pupnikKenYoung: we'll get there :)  i manually do it too now08:36
KenYoungpupnik, In my case, it's really easy.   I just need to move and link one directory.08:37
Jef91wgetting the deb now Ken :)08:39
KenYoungJef91, Thanks a bunch for giving it a try.08:40
Jef91If my N900 blows up you will be hearing from my attorney ;)08:40
KenYoungWell, I have of course tried the package out on my N900.08:40
Jef91it does portairt mode <308:41
KenYoungTap the screen, you'll get constellations.08:41
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KenYoungCircle an area to xzoom.08:42
Jef91huh it crashed on me08:42
Jef91what the command to launch from terminal?08:42
KenYoungJef91, /usr/bin/orrery -d /usr/share/orrery08:42
KenYoungJef91, Did it show you anything before it crahsed?   I've had it running for days...08:43
Jef91how do I zoom out?08:43
Jef91Yea - it crashed when I was changing pages08:44
KenYoungJust press the screen for more than 1/3 second.08:44
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KenYoungIs it shoing you stars, constellations, etc?08:44
KenYoung(sorry about my poor typing)08:44
Jef91got this in terminal when it closed08:45
Jef91" permission denied"08:45
Jef91well thats all that is in terminal08:45
Jef91not sure if it is the cause of the dump08:45
KenYoungRats - that probalby means the configuration file is install with the wrong permissions.08:45
Jef91Finally got Abiword to compile... lets see if the deb installs on my n90008:46
KenYoungtry chmod 666 /usr/share/orrery/config08:46
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Jef91I *think* that fixed it08:50
KenYoungJef91, Actually, I'm afraid it won't.   It looks like it's a directory permissions issue.   That's a pretty big fault.   Thanks for giving it a try.08:50
Jef91ehh well after I did that it let me flip through all the pages with no dump08:51
KenYoungJef91, Yeah, but I fear you won't be able to change your location, without changing the permissions or ownership of a directory.08:52
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KenYoungchmod 777 /opt/maemo/usr/share/orrery should fix it.08:57
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Jef91mmm the optify script appears to work like a charm09:06
Jef91I've hit a recursive issue...09:14
Jef91I'm trying to install my libgsf-1 package09:14
Jef91but it tells me it cannot install because it needs to install libgsf-109:14
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KenYoungJef91, Can you use --force...09:16
Jef91ok wait - I was slightly wrong09:18
Jef91the package I want to install is called "libgsf"09:18
Jef91but it wants "libgsf-1"09:18
Jef91which according to is the same thing09:18
Jef91think I should just force it and see what happens?09:18
KenYoungJef91, I've had pretty good luck doing that in the past.09:19
lucentI've updated the flashlight-applet bug report to describe how to revert to a version that does work09:19
lucentbug #494909:20
povbot`Bug "Image setted" banner is awkward09:20
lucentwrong bug09:20
lucentthat's weird09:20
lucent[#4949] Applet breaks the camera application09:20
lucentI don't know how to link to that here because it says ID=494909:21
Jef91"libgsf-1 is not available, but is referred to by another package"09:21
Jef91Is there a way I can find what that other package is?...09:21
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Jef91Scratchbox is annoying the shit outta me09:27
KenYoungJef91, yeah, it'snot a perfect emulation, by any means.09:27
Jef91its killing me -
KenYoungWish I could help, but I don't use perl.09:29
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Jef91its a scratch box issue not a perl issue09:32
Jef91I wonder if I can pass a configure argument09:35
Jef91so it looks for perl in a different directory09:36
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voidprayerIs there any introduction on installing Maemo on Google HTC G2?10:43
RST38hIt is a nice two-word slide, too10:44
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slonopotamusRST38h, 'no wai'? :)10:46
voidprayerRST38h: There is?10:47
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slonopotamusRST38h, it isn't polite to leave now :)10:57
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RST38hvoidprayer: the words say YOU CANNOT11:00
voidprayerRST38h: Ahhh.11:01
RST38hslonopotamus: Hey, I have been adding fast-forwarding to fMSX11:01
voidprayerRST38h: Well, I really hope to see maemo on some other cellphone. N900 is a little unaffordable...11:01
voidprayerRST38h: thank you.11:01
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slonopotamusRST38h, :P11:03
Milo-empty battery, but the alarm still went on :)11:05
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JaffaMorning, all11:07
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RST38hlast update to Maep killed it. Mhm.11:11
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pupniki keep finding things qwerty has fixed11:12
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LuciusMareanybody tried porting imgseek to maemo?11:35
LuciusMareor what image database program simmiliar to imgseek would you recommend me?11:35
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LuciusMareyou dont say.11:41
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jon1012someone knows a way to get firefox speedier ?11:54
jon1012I mpean microb is way faster than ff 1.0 on my n90011:54
arachnistjon1012: failfox would have to incorporate a whole bunch of little hacks that are in microb11:56
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jon1012then maybe it's the fault of the os if those hacks are needed ? are those hacks publicly available for ff devs ?11:57
cehtehjust use microb and be happy11:58
jon1012those statements reminds me of ms with ie integration in windows :)11:59
jon1012event if maemo is way more open11:59
GeneralAntillesjon1012, um, yeah.11:59
GeneralAntillesThose "hacks" are actually mobile optimizations.11:59
GeneralAntillesSome of which can be found in Fennec.11:59
GeneralAntillesSo, the issue here is that your basic desktop Firefox isn't designed to run on a mobile device.12:00
GeneralAntillesThus, slow.12:00
GeneralAntillesThe reality is that MicroB is the fastest and most usable browser available on the platform right now.12:00
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jon1012I agree with that12:02
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RST38hBTW, have they pushed Fennec RC2 to the repo?12:02
jon1012RST38h: 1.0 is released12:03
RST38h1.0 what?12:03
jon1012RST38h: no rc, release :)12:03
RST38hI do not see it offered from the repo12:03
jon1012go to fennec website, there is a link that instals their repo in the software manager12:04
RST38hI already have the repo installed.12:04
RST38hNo 1.0 though12:04
jon1012then refresh your sources12:05
jon1012I have it on my device12:05
Wolfieis fennec better than the default browser?12:05
jon1012Wolfie: in UI and plugins yeah; way better... in speed no12:05
cehtehwhere is the build/install for n900 i only find n81012:06
gavin1.0 isn't released12:06
gavin1.0 RC2 is released12:06
GeneralAntillesUI is subjective.12:06
v2px_1.0.0 IS released12:06
gavinthe 1.0.0 you have is 1.0 RC 212:06
v2px_it's in their repo12:07
* gavin works on Fennec12:07
v2px_got an upgrade yesterday12:07
jon1012gavin: packaging error ?12:07
* RST38h shrugs: will let all these people figure out what exactly they are releasing12:07
v2px_but it doesnt work here. complains about my GRE version(?!)12:07
gavinRCs are exactly that - release candidates12:07
gavinif testing works out, no changes are made12:07
RST38hWhatever is the latest version in the repo is what they release12:07
RST38hRight now it is RC1 afaik12:07
gavinRC2 :)12:08
gavinRC2 has a perf fix that makes pageloads faster12:08
gavin(disabling the disk cache)12:08
gavinalong with some deb packaging fixes12:08
gavinand some other stuff I'm forgeting12:08
gavinwe're likely going to be doing an RC312:09
cehtehgavin: so are the RC builds really that slow or is it because some debugging stuff still enabled?12:09
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gavinRC2 should be much faster than RC1 for pageloads12:09
RST38hStill unresponsive to UI though?12:10
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gavinotherwise, there's no "debugging code" intentionally left over12:10
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gavinv2px_: that's 1.0 RC212:10
gavin1.0 RC3 will also be 1.0.012:10
gavinthat's just how Mozilla's release process work12:10
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gavinall RCs look like the final version12:11
gavinbecause they potentially _are_ the final version12:11
cehtehhehe ... nice versioning scheme :P12:11
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gavin(RC1 was labeled 1.0b6pre12:12
gavin because of a packaging error)12:12
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SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: not fastest - lynx - but... I would be interested to see ff 1.5/2 - I used that not that long ago on a laptop with 128M RAM12:17
RST38hgavin: So, the key question is: will the 1.0 final release be usable?12:19
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, *fully featured12:19
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gavinusability was pushed off to 1.112:20
wazdhello maemo12:20
* SpeedEvil tries to remember critical features missing from 2.0 - and comes up blank12:20
pupnik"I am fully functional..." -Data12:20
gavinRST38h: that sounds awfully lot like a loaded question :)12:21
RST38hgavin: In a way, yes12:21
gavin1.0 RC2 is plenty usable for me12:21
RST38hgavin: But it is also a practical question12:21
gavinnot as fast as it could be, and not always responsive during page load12:21
RST38hgavin: I have been trying to use Fennec since b512:21
pupnik //want ftpupload for camera app12:21
ChikuI tried zimbra on microB, so slow,... does it mean on ff will slower?12:22
pupniktaking tourist pics of mass effect atm12:22
RST38hgavin: It is absolutely awful in terms of UI response12:22
gavinChiku: try it out!12:22
RST38hgavin: Feels stuck most of the time12:22
Chikuzimbra ajax mode12:22
RST38hgavin: So, I usually start it up, use it for ~5 minutes, then go back to MicroB12:22
v2px_my rootfs is full... again D:12:22
RST38hgavin: Thus is my question: will the 1.0final be responsive enough to beocme usable?12:23
Chikuread comment not make me try ff12:23
Chikuif browser fully features looks like connected with 16bps12:24
gavinRST38h: have you tried RC2 ?12:25
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RST38hgavin: Not yet offered from the repo12:25
gavinwhich repo?12:25
RST38hfennec repo12:26
wazdkonttori_nokia: around?12:26
gavinit's available from the fennec repo12:26
RST38hhmm..ok, let me retry12:26
gavindoh, sorry12:26
gavinwrong link12:26
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* gavin is actually not sure how updates from previous repos/builds work12:28
gavinthat's the latest, anyways12:28
RST38hno, that is just an install file12:28
gavinthat points to a repo12:28
RST38hI will retry with the app manager12:28
RST38hSomething is wrong, my HAM may be misconfigured12:29
* timeless_mbp sighs12:29
gavinfor RC3 we're considering some panning/zooming fixes, autocomplete speed improvements, and some responsiveness tweaks12:29
timeless_mbpmy n900 can't find any cellular operators12:29
timeless_mbpgavin: would you say 'searching for cellular operators' or 'searching for cellular networks'?12:30
RST38hIf autocomplete still goes through a SQL queries, then it may be a battle lost when started12:30
gavinthe latter12:30
wazdsearching for networks12:30
xorAxAxmaybe the unions  plugin of mce disallowed working on sundays, timeless_mbp?12:30
wazdwithout cellular12:30
timeless_mbpwazd: sorry, cellular needs to be specified12:30
xorAxAxnobody could check, mce is not open :)12:31
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* RST38h remembers how he absolutely, totally, badly hates Firefox's "awesome" URL bar12:31
timeless_mbpotherwise you would confuse it w/ searching for wifi networks12:31
gavinRST38h: why?12:31
* wazd hates conversation app12:31
RST38hgavin: You type something in it, it suddenly gets stuck. For seconds.12:31
RST38hgavin: Doing god knows what.12:32
gavinis your profile NFS mounted?12:32
* timeless_mbp chuckles12:32
RST38hgavin: Of course not. Local.12:32
timeless_mbpgavin: have you run into people actually using nfs mounted profiles w/ fennec?12:32
gavinwe've made a bunch of improvements to it in 3.6, you should see if they've helped if you haven't already12:32
timeless_mbp.. that'd be really depressing12:32
RST38hgavin: deleting database files form your profile helps, for the next few weeks12:32
gavinI'm assuming RST38h is referring to his use of it on desktop firefox12:32
RST38hgavin: of course12:33
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Chikuif you use extra-devel repo, better to disable extras and extras-testing? or you still need those ?12:33
lardmanmorning even12:33
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wazdlardman: hey12:33
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lardmanhi wazd12:33
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lardman seems a bit more important and severe than low ans normal respectively, what do other PR1.1. users think?12:34
povbot`Bug 7742: Apps depending on libqt4-phonon won't install on 2.2009.51-112:34
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RST38hgavin: Ok, I think I found the problem with repo setup ("extras" component instead of the "release")12:35
RST38hWill update to RC2 and test momentarily12:35
timeless_mbp"cellular network's service area" or "cellular operator's service area"?12:36
RST38hgavin: As to that "awesome" (sic) urlbar, I think you simply execute sqlite query of some kind and assume it will return momentarily. It does not. Deleting sqlite database of visited URLs "fixes" things for a short while, until the sqlite database grows again and sqlite becomes sluggish12:37
jon1012lardman: bwah who uses qt anyway ? ;)12:37
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timeless_mbpRST38h: iirc the database isn't supposed to be on the main thread anymore12:37
RST38hgavin: One way to fix it would be to avoid sqlite.. Another way would be to avoid calling sqlite in the middle of user input12:37
timeless_mbpRST38h: but out of curiosity, which file system are you using?12:38
gavinRST38h: people have been investigating and fixing sqlite-related performance issues with the autocomplete code regularly12:38
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timeless_mbpRST38h: some form of a database is needed for history, always has been, in every browser12:38
timeless_mbpsqlite isn't the problem, it just happens to have a brand name12:38
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timeless_mbpand we happen to use it a bit more12:39
gavinthe autocomplete queries use asynchronous IO in 3.6, for example12:39
gavinhave you tried 3.6?12:39
* RST38h uses plain WinXP with NTFS12:40
RST38hNo NFS. No remote filesystems12:40
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RST38hUbuntu with ext3 behaves the same12:41
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RST38hHmm...still no Fennec RC212:42
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smhardoes the N900 include a sync program to sync contacts and calendar entries with linux?12:44
xorAxAxsmhar: yes, contacts12:44
xorAxAxnot the calendar, though12:44
smharxorAxAx, with what program?12:44
xorAxAxin both casesyou need software on linux12:45
xorAxAxsmhar: opensync on linux + the syncml feature12:45
smharit is strange that it run linux and the desktop suite is for windows, with the linux support limited to contacts only!12:48
ArkenoiI installed old Metromap directly from .deb and Xarchiver from mymaemo repository; now i see both as "new versions" with every software update, the second one updates every time and the first one tries and fails, what's the reason?12:51
RST38hArkenoi: the repository is screwed up?12:52
RST38hhave you checked version numbers? and failure reasons?12:52
lardmanArkenoi: indeed, is there a newer version in the extras-* repo?12:53
Arkenoirst38h: there is no failure for second one12:53
RST38hOh yesss:
RST38hArkenoi: What does the first one failure reason say?12:54
Arkenoilardman: none of those are available from extras-*12:54
lardmanArkenoi: out of interest, where did the metromap come from in the first place? I can add patches to the Garage project and push it to extras-* in the conventional way12:54
lardmanoh ok12:54
timeless_mbpsmhar: it isn't at all strange. it is unfortunate, and rather depressing`12:54
Arkenoilardman: i just downloaded .deb from the garage12:54
timeless_mbpsmhar: consider that the people working on the n900 work on it as their full time job12:54
RST38hFennec is indeed marked as 1.0.0 not as RC212:55
lardmanI know the Garage stuff is out of date, I really need to get some interested people involved in updating it again12:55
timeless_mbphaving to write another fulll time application for linux that would do syncing would require them to have two full time jobs12:55
lardmanArkenoi: and app manager tells you there are updated versions whenever you run it now?12:55
timeless_mbpthe suite for windows is not a one off designed for the n900, it's something that perhaps happens to work w/ the n900 and is written by some other team12:55
timeless_mbpthat other team looks at the market and says "most people would benefit from us doing this one product, so that's what we'll do"12:56
* timeless_mbp is still waiting for a non lame sync solution for OS X12:56
timeless_mbp(which all things considered is more important than a solution for Linux)12:56
Arkenoilardman: yes12:56
lardmanArkenoi: and if you try to install this update it talks about, what happens?12:57
Arkenoilardman: but obviously fails to download it as there is not, actually12:57
lardmanlet me do some testing, sounds like a possible HAM bug12:57
lardmanArkenoi: does metromap work ok for you out of interest?12:58
lardmanas I can push a version to extras-*12:58
Arkenoilardman: route planning works with minor UI glitches, "the big map" is not shown12:58
Arkenoilardman: "metromap cannot be updated" or something and download size is not present12:59
lardmanhmm, I patched the code long ago and then joined the project to push my updates, but I have a feeling I never did (as I didn't know until a few weeks ago I had access!)12:59
RST38ha'ok, trying fennec rc212:59
RST38hShowed up "loading" then disappeared completely, cpu at 100%13:00
RST38hShowed up the UI13:00
RST38hAppears to be stuck13:00
RST38hAh, after about 10 seconds showed the bookmarks13:00
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RST38hLoaded tmo, faster than usual too13:01
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RST38hScrolling works, once you wait for about 15-20 seconds for all the js to stop running13:02
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redmeh, my pc C: drive is running out of diskspace, anyone know if its a viable option to mount another partition as a "folder" under Program Files so I'd still have all my software installed there?13:02
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redjust a general pc question :)13:02
lardmanred: you can have a Program Files folder on a different drive13:02
redI know, but _some_ applications don't like it13:02
lardmanhmm, really13:03
RST38hClicked on UserCP, Fennec is stuck again13:03
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redso potentially to avoid that and to have them neatly under one folder, I could basicly mount a partition there since thats easy13:03
redand then just hide the drive from my computer13:03
RST38hScrolling through a tmo thread is unusable, gets stuck like hell13:03
RST38hSelecting a page is also unusable, you click the digit, it get stuck not providing any feedback13:04
redRST38h: for me fennec crashed after I clicked my 1st imported bookmark13:04
redthen I tried again three times with different bookmarks and uninstalled13:04
Arkenoiwill uqm-joydev dependancy ever be fixed?13:04
RST38hEvery now and then it makes series of clicks, apparently finger-touch events being stuck with CPU at 100%13:05
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timeless_mbpred: ntfs supports junctions13:05
timeless_mbpand other things13:05
timeless_mbpso roughly 'yes'13:05
RST38hgavin: Ok, RC2 is still unusable, sorry13:05
gavinwhat specifically makes it unusable?13:06
redguess I'll go ahead and do it13:06
RST38hHangs by itself, hangs the rest of the system with it (i.e. you cannot just switch to another app and do something else)13:06
timeless_mbp Directory of C:\ProgramData\dbg13:06
timeless_mbp01/08/2010  09:54 PM    <DIR>          .13:06
timeless_mbp01/08/2010  09:54 PM    <DIR>          ..13:06
timeless_mbp07/20/2009  10:15 PM    <DIR>          src13:06
timeless_mbp07/10/2009  03:27 AM    <JUNCTION>     sym [C:\symbols]13:06
reddidn't realize Windows 7 would end up hogging this much diskspace, made a 40Gig for it and program files13:06
redmy docs/downloads on different disk alltogether13:06
lardmanred: what sort of stuff doesn't like not being on C: ?13:07
timeless_mbpred: WinSxS is expensive13:07
RST38hgavin: When the frustrated user starts clicking on the screen, it makes things much much worse13:07
timeless_mbpmy w7 is 60gb13:07
timeless_mbpor rather on a 60gb disk13:07
redbasicly I only have Win 7 & Program Files on C:/13:07
timeless_mbp23gb used13:07
RST38hgavin: As Fennec finishes processing previous action (takes dozens of seconds sometimes, it seems) and starts processing those clicks one by one13:07
redtemp/downloads/pagefile on one drive13:07
redand then one drive for media, one for docs and games13:07
RST38hShit, it is totally stuck now.13:08
red<- control freak13:08
* RST38h SSHs to his N900 to kill FennecRC213:08
redWindows itself eating up 11Gigs, program files nearly 2513:08
timeless_mbpred: note that my  volume is compressed13:08
timeless_mbpred: do you have windirstat?13:08
RST38hAHAAA! "Firefox is not responding. Close application?"13:09
RST38hTook a few minutes though13:09
timeless_mbpRST38h: please use ntsd -p {pid-of-firefox}13:09
timeless_mbponce you've done that, lemme know13:09
RST38hIt is dead. Next time I run Fennec, will let you know.13:10
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lardman looks interesting13:17
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RST38hFennec uses ~12% CPU even if it is not doing anything13:17
RST38hNo, wrong13:18
lardmanis fennec the new firefox browser which will soon be released, or some other branch?13:18
RST38hI am still calling it Fennec as it is so much different from Firefox proper13:18
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RST38hJust trying to confirm that RC2 is finally usable, not having much luck =(13:19
arachnistchanging the name reduced the bloat by 70% ;)13:19
RST38hHeh, once you start about:config, it does not let you go back to the previous page in history and does not show about:config in history either13:20
* RST38h tries LiveJournal, out of morbid curiosity13:20
RST38hIt zooms in seemingly on random...You try clicking some button or link, and it suddenly zooms in on you =)13:22
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RST38hOk, LiveJournal is completely stuck, cannot scroll, cannot switch away, CPU at 100% for several minutes13:23
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RST38hNo way this is release quality :(13:24
RST38hTakes about 30 seconds just to kill it =)13:25
* arachnist never considered firefox a "release quality" software13:25
RST38hdesktop version works pretty well13:25
RST38hBut I am afraid these guys somewhat overestimated resources available on N900 :)13:25
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timeless_mbpRST38h: ntsd is for windows, not maemo13:42
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* RST38h not sure why he should get a stacktrace of wondows firefox13:45
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cehtehRST38h: fennec is the browser of the future :)13:48
cehteh.. when smartphones have 2GB ram and 2Ghz dual processors13:49
RST38hcehteh: The Atom-based Windows-running future, I am sure?13:49
El_Angelohow can you force the ovi maps app to download maps for a whole region?13:49
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El_Angelonot maemo enough?13:50
cehtehshould i have some faith in tear?13:50
timeless_mbpRST38h: i'm pretty sure you complained that firefox on windows hung13:50
cehtehdidnt really used it, mostly i use microb .. but tear looks at least 2nd best13:50
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timeless_mbpEl_Angelo: Nokia Map Downloader for Windows :)13:50
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RST38hNo. I complained that the "awesome bar" in WIndows randomly hangs for seconds at a time when you type.13:51
timeless_mbpcehteh: have you seen the ram specs for Google's Nexus?13:51
timeless_mbpRST38h: right, well, attach then13:51
lardmanRST38h: need to clear the db?13:51
RST38hI also complained that Fennec on Maemo hangs for dozens of seconds at a time, all the time13:51
El_Angelocrap.... windows13:52
RST38hlardman: Yea, once I delete the db it all goes backt o normal for the next 2-3 weeks13:52
timeless_mbpRST38h: if you're catching it hanging, you can get a stack or mini profile and we can look into it13:52
timeless_mbpif you aren't interested, then, well... i'd just as soon you not complain about it here.13:52
El_Angelodoes it work on wine?13:52
RST38hNext time I need your advice, I will ask specifically, thanks.13:52
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timeless_mbpEl_Angelo: dunno, let us know :)13:53
timeless_mbpRST38h: next time, don't complain about non maemo software, thanks.13:53
lardmananyone know about that SMS from the command line business?13:53
lardmanand also any Nokias here with something to do with hildon-mime?13:53
timeless_mbplardman: does cursing it count? :)13:54
lardmanseems to work ok for me, but not for sms:13:54
lardmanand also doesn't handle smsto:13:54
timeless_mbphildon-mime is a general dispatch13:54
timeless_mbpbesides mime is for file types13:55
timeless_mbpsms: and smsto: are protocols13:55
timeless_mbpthey shouldn't be handled by mime types13:55
* lcukx200 waves13:55
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timeless_mbpx200 ??13:55
RST38hlcuk: Lenovo? =)13:55
lardmantimeless_mbp: the open_uri fn should handle all sorts13:55
lcukn900and n90013:55
* lcukx200 is on safari13:56
timeless_mbplardman: so, in general, it's supposed to be generic dispatch13:56
timeless_mbpif someone registers for a 'foo:' protocol,, they should get it.13:56
RST38hFunny how download activity from OS2008 repos slowed down13:56
timeless_mbpif no one registers for 'foo:', it's unlikely to work particularly well13:56
timeless_mbpRST38h: market saturation?13:56
lcukx200RST38h, activity bursts come in waves13:56
lardmantimeless_mbp: yep13:57
RST38hlcuk: True, and it is not exactly the most active time of the year13:57
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timeless_mbpeveryone's too busy @CES :)13:57
lcukx200timeless, you in .hel next week?13:57
lcukx200adult expo more like lol13:57
lcukx200cool, beers?13:57
timeless_mbpsomething like that can be arranged13:58
RST38hlcuk: is there a difference? ;)13:58
timeless_mbpRST38h: there's toys and then there's toys13:58
lcukx200cool, talk to jussi m and sampo and see who else is up for it13:58
timeless_mbpso, not really13:58
timeless_mbpboth make grown men salivate13:58
timeless_mbpor perhaps, men who never really grew up?13:58
lardmanin which case does anyone know where I should look to work out what format the sms: data should take to be accepted by libhildonmime's open_uri() fn?14:00
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LuciusMarehi where are the app icons stored?14:00
timeless_mbpLuciusMare: /usr/share/icons/ or something14:00
timeless_mbpthey're trivial to find14:00
timeless_mbpjust look at a .desktop file14:00
LuciusMarethat bring me to another question14:01
LuciusMarewhere is my desktop?14:01
timeless_mbpeither usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon or usr/share/icons/hildon/scalable/hildon14:01
timeless_mbp(one is n900, one is probably older)14:01
timeless_mbpwhat do you mean 'desktop'14:01
timeless_mbpthe desktop is virtual, so it's mostly in /var/lib/gconf/14:02
timeless_mbp(to the extent that it's "anywhere" at all...)14:02
timeless_mbpif you mean "where is the stuff i can see in File Manager or a file picker"14:02
timeless_mbpthat's ~/MyDocs/14:02
LuciusMarei know14:03
* DocScrutinizer51 wonders if making stylii and selling them for less than 10€/g of polypropylene wouldn't be better than printing dollars14:03
LuciusMarei mean the .desktop files14:03
LuciusMareor so14:03
timeless_mbp  /usr/share/applications/14:03
timeless_mbpdepends on which kind14:03
timeless_mbpcontrol panel items are in ./hildon-control-panel/14:03
timeless_mbpother ones live in other parts of that tree14:03
timeless_mbpthey're all reasonably well named14:03
lardmanbut those aren't necessarily on the desktop14:04
timeless_mbpthe desktop as i said is /var/lib/gconf/ somewhere14:04
timeless_mbpbecause it's purely virtual14:04
LuciusMareand, how can i access  these "hidden" files through the default file select prompt? it shows only mydocs and memorycard14:04
timeless_mbp .desktop is roughly .lnk.template14:04
timeless_mbpLuciusMare: you don't.14:04
timeless_mbpunless you create a symlink14:04
timeless_mbpwhich is probably a bad idea14:05
timeless_mbpthere's an xterm included in the device at no extra charge14:05
timeless_mbpbesides the apps you see in maemo don't generally run as root14:05
lcukx200lardman, speak to frals14:05
lardmanwhat do you want to achieve?14:05
timeless_mbpand the paths we've mentioned above aren't owned by user14:05
lardmanlcukx200: k, thanks14:05
timeless_mbpso you couldn't really do much useful14:05
lcukx200he may very well have come across lots of sms info during mms stuff14:05
lardmanfrals: sending SMS14:05
* lcukx200 speaks of the devil14:06
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timeless_mbpbetter than 'to' :)14:06
fralswell all i know pretty much about sms specific stuff is that python script someone posted to send sms from commandline14:07
lcukx200i still dunno if ive done the right thing, ive driven to my mates and hoping i can get back when its time to14:07
* lcukx200 hopes it doesnt snow14:07
timeless_mbplcukx200: in hel?14:07
timeless_mbpdon't worry, our snow is here to stay14:07
lcukx200nahh in .uk14:08
timeless_mbpthere's an ice sculpture that went up sometime a few weeks ago14:08
lcukx200im in winsford14:08
timeless_mbpit's still here now :)14:08
lardmanfrals: ok, got that, am still hoping I can work out how open_uri() works14:08
lcukx200timeless, neat!14:08
timeless_mbpi have a video stream of the sculpture from when it first went up if you want to see it14:08
lcukx200i know there its expected, so cars are prepared, but us wusses in the uk stick got our slick summer tyres on14:08
timeless_mbp(not where it's living today, but ..)14:08
timeless_mbplcukx200: yeah14:09
lcukx200so the sculture moved? :D14:09
* lardman gets out the tungsten carbide type spikes14:09
timeless_mbpyeah, it was at the ice rink next to the central railway station14:09
timeless_mbpyou know, the one that floaded14:09
timeless_mbpand later had a train decide to attack a hotel conference room14:09
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timeless_mbp(the station has been really attention hungry of late)14:10
* timeless_mbp cries14:10
sp3000it's like a floaty flooding?14:10
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sp3000also, it's a fricking winter postcard over here14:10
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timeless_mbpsp3000: hey, does that load on your n900? :)14:11
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timeless_mbplcukx200: ttp://
LuciusMareokay, i have problems with mbarcode - no matter what i do, it fails to open the file - "error opening file"14:14
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timeless_mbpno fair, asking and running...14:15
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lcukx200timeless, o_O looks like my street14:16
sp3000timeless_mbp: sure, a bit slideshowy at points14:17
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lcukx200did you see the one where the ppl jumped out of car in similar thing whilst it was still moving14:17
lardmanLuciusMare_away: Yep, I'm not sure if that's supposed to work yet14:18
sp3000oh, it plays better when you're no longer installing fennec at the same time ;)14:18
timeless_mbplcukx200: nice14:21
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RST38hOk. How the hell do I add the network search to the FBRreader? =(14:34
RST38hderf: Around?14:34
sp3000well, fine, it isn't snowing...
BirdFlewah, this is fantastic. irc from the terminal of my shiny new n900 :-D greetings all14:34
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lcukx200BirdFlew, hola!14:38
lcukx200sp3000, how cold is it there14:38
sp3000 is a few km away14:39
BirdFlewtrying to install xchat but it has missing dependencies. how do i install the needed packages?14:39
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SpeedEvilBirdFlew: :)14:40
SpeedEvilBirdFlew: I just installed from the app-manager, and it just worked14:40
BirdFlewam i perhaps missing a repository?14:41
lcukx200sp3000, that graph makes me cold just looking at it14:41
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* lcukx200 makes mental note to buy extra thermals14:42
MuhviBirdFlew, you should have maemo development repository added if you have installed xchat14:42
Muhvii added it, installet xchat => everything worked fine14:42
* sp3000 re-crops14:44
sp3000oh you need pro to replace things, how annoying14:44
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BirdFlewthat's extras-devel, yeah?14:46
slonopotamusno unzip for fremantle?14:46
MuhviBirdFlew, yeah14:46
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BirdFlewit shows up in the application list but when i try to install it says i'm missing maemo-select-menu-location14:48
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timeless_mbpslonopotamus: i've installed it from somewhere14:50
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timeless_mbpsp3000: The photo you were looking for has been deleted.14:50
sp3000timeless_mbp: yeah flickr doesn't feel I'm pro enough to replace things I want to re-crop slightly, so
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timeless_mbpBirdFlew: that's a diabloism14:52
sp3000there was an annoying twig on the right that I didn't notice the first time on the smaller screen :)14:52
timeless_mbpthey'll need to repackage w/o that14:52
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slonopotamustimeless_mbp, that's really annoying :(14:53
SpeedEvilto follow the meme of today14:53
SpeedEvilI love the sky14:53
BirdFlewwhat's diablo? i've seen that name pop up a bit in my attempt to get xchat working14:53
timeless_mbpBirdFlew: Maemo 4.114:54
timeless_mbpgoogle or will explain14:54
lcukx200holdon, RST38h you repackaged fremantle xchat didnt you?14:54
BirdFlewis there an xchat version for freemantle?14:54
lcukx200BirdFlew, i think you have wrong repo perhaps14:54
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, ah, it's in -devel14:54
RST38hlcuk: Yes.14:55
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BirdFlewyeah i added a few from for the older maemo versions14:56
N900evilwould be awesome with scrolly and variable height input window.14:57
N900evilmore awesome14:57
sp3000so I have an album called bugs on share.ovi14:58
sp3000I click on this share button on the page to see what it looks like mostly14:58
sp3000it goes "Check out bugs's album on Ovi by Nokia" at me14:58
sp3000doh >_<14:58
sp3000but that's fine, this is exactly the kind of thing the bugs album is for :)14:59
lcukx200BirdFlew, expect problems then. repositories are pretty much all you need for now (unless doing dev work with people/companies from elsewhere)14:59
BirdFlewyeah i anticipated that it might not be smooth sailing, but was curious as to what was available15:00
lcukx200maemo extras, maemo extras testing, maemo extras devel.  decreasing levels of stability15:01
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timeless_mbp+ a couple of private repos, like mine :)15:08
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Termanapretty much the stability is in the same order that lcuk typed it. Was that on purpose lcuk?15:11
lcukx200timeless, that was exactly what the (unless ..) bit was for15:13
lcukx200Termana, of course15:13
timeless_mbpTermana: we don't try to give people bad experiences15:13
timeless_mbpwe aren't particularly cruel :)15:13
* timeless_mbp pokes BirdFlew 15:15
BirdFlewin fact you're quite the opposite of cruel, the maemo community is very helpful and supportive. i'm impressed15:16
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sp3000 there we go :)15:19
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BirdFleware there any simple encryption programs for maemo? truecrypt is overkill for my purposes, i just need to encrypt a couple of small plaintext files15:20
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sp3000hmm, apparently you have to be logged out for it to fail15:21
timeless_mbpsp3000: do you have easy access to my quote?15:22
sp3000a what?15:22
timeless_mbpgot it15:22
timeless_mbp> The prize for best staff notice goes to Nokia in its staff car park in Peru. Over each parking space it says: “It is me who arrives here, early in the morning, hoping to change the world.”15:23
timeless_mbpi framed that and it's now hanging over my desk @Nokia :)15:23
timeless_mbp> Finally, an award for the year’s top cliche, which goes to “the elephant in the room”. In the last year there has scarcely been a meeting room anywhere in which an elephant has not pitched up at some point.15:23
timeless_mbp>  In leading newspapers and journals alone, last year 3,700 elephants were reported as being in rooms, while in 2000 the number was only 175. If one had to sum up 2009 in one sentence, it was the year in which elephants bred like rabbits. – Copyright The Financial Times Limited 201015:23
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Termanatimeless_mbp: "@Nokia" - I didn't know you worked at Nokia. Though I guess its a likely thing and theres probably a couple more people that work at Nokia here, given the fact of what the room is about.15:25 or something15:25
timeless_mbpwe supposedly identify ourselves15:25
sp3000timeless_mbp: ah, great. if I go to someone else's album while logged in, it suggests "Check out <me>'s album ..." where <me> is me and, again, not the author of the album15:26
* timeless_mbp goes to learn how getprocaddress works15:26
timeless_mbpsp3000: awesome15:26
sp3000then again, I don't think I've ever seen evidence of anyone having used this feature on any site15:27
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timeless_mbpit could be worse15:27
timeless_mbpyou could be learning about KERNELBASE!_imp__LdrGetProcedureAddress15:27
pupnikwhy is that bad?15:28
* SpeedEvil is learning about ioctls.15:28
sp3000there are imps in your kernelbase?15:28
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: you win, you can have my sympathies15:30
timeless_mbpsp3000: there are even snaps!15:31
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SpeedEviltimeless: trying to work out what the bme thingy does15:31
Hukkazaheer_: I think everything is now working with Qt/gst/python15:31
HukkaPhew, finally15:31
timeless_mbpbme = battery management entity15:32
timeless_mbpi'd hope it's an entity that manages my battery ;-)15:32
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* timeless_mbp goes back to imps and snaps15:32
SpeedEviltimeless: I'd gotten that far :)15:32
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timeless_mbpok, snaps are cool15:34
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sp3000timeless_mbp: they probably started with <actor> wants to share an album ...15:34
sp3000and then went to check out <actor>'s album ... without noticing it's a different party15:35
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RedPenguinHello all15:35
BirdFlewg'day RedPenguin15:35
* timeless_mbp grumbles15:35
* sp3000 fills another "reporting a bug" form on ovi15:35
RedPenguinWhen I came in here before, I was told to use dd to backup my N810 to external Mini-SD, but when using dd if=/dev/mtdblock4..... it throws dd: /dev/mtdblock4: Input/output error15:36
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pupnikcat /proc/partitions shows you existing devices available for reading RedPenguin15:37
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pupnikalso some guides suggest options conv=sync,noerror for hard drive backuop -dunno if that applies to flash15:38
RedPenguinit shows sda - sda615:38
RedPenguinhold on15:38
pupniksounds like you executed dd on a pc15:39
JaffaHmm, half my Internets have disappeared15:39
RedPenguinYea, I realize that after, was using the wrong terminal window15:39
RedPenguinNow I'm seeing the proper mtd, and mmc15:39
pupnikhmm no ideas here15:39
RedPenguinWell dd was on the Nokia but cat /proc/partitions I accidentally ran at first on Ubuntu15:40
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sp3000timeless_mbp: ...submitted,
timeless_mbpsp3000: :)15:45
sp3000well, submitted, expect I get a "We've encountered an error." page in response to submitting it15:45
sp3000"no shit"15:45
* corecode is sad about his phone not being delivered in time15:46
RedPenguinWell one forum thread is pointing to having bad flash blocks for this error15:47
* sp3000 finds the problem and manages to submit it15:48
sp3000of course now I have to submit another bit for that bug :)15:48
fralsneed testers for, pretty please with sugar on top15:50
timeless_mbpRedPenguin: roughly, you shouldn't use dd to dump mtd :)15:50
timeless_mbpfanoush suggests nanddump ...15:50
RedPenguinI seen that in one thread, thought seems there are so many contradicting threads it's hard to see what's what on proper backup15:51
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RedPenguinnvm, that was a tool with a similar name on that thread15:53
RedPenguinI maybe don't have bad blocks, because until the previous thread, my dmesg does not say at all, "bad eraseblock"15:53
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BirdFlewcan the n900 wifi be put into monitor mode?16:01
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RedPenguinNot sure if this helps, from dragorn seemed to state no, or if so, extremely instable16:03
RedPenguindragorn from the Kismet project that is16:03
sp3000timeless_mbp: gmail thinks andre is a spammer :(16:04
RedPenguinI know just playing with Kismet on the N810, caused the drivers to 100% crash after a while16:04
sp3000in my latest spam page, there were two msgs from him on -community16:04
sp3000and more on the second page16:07
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angasuleI can't play ogg theora files :(16:10
kulveangasule: with Ogg Support installed?16:11
angasulekulve: yes, which program takes advantage of it? I've tried canola, mplaye and one other I can't remember16:15
kulveangasule: mplayer doesn't. I'm not sure about Canola. But the built-in Media Player can use it16:15
kulvebut the performance isn't great as it's sw decoding only, no hw acceleration16:16
angasulehmm, what's the best video codec and settings to use on the n810?16:17
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angasuleI have a bunch of DebConf videos to watch in ogg theora16:17
kulveoh, n81016:17
kulvethere are converters that have good settings for n810, iirc16:18
felipecangasule: for N810 mpeg4 is better16:18
kulvethat might be worth a try16:19
angasuleoh? I was avoiding it, I guess it's done in HW?16:19
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angasuleyay it's in debian :)16:21
lardmananyone know where that thread moaning about 3G vs 2G power consumption on Talk is?16:21
ShadowJKthere are hundreds..16:21
lardmanis there a definitive one?16:21
lardmani.e. someone actually having done some proper testing?16:22
angasulelardman: next to the one moaning about F100 vs Ford T fuel consumption? :)16:22
lardmanwell I'd moan about silly American cars too ;)16:22
SoftWhats simplest way to get name of the wlan im currently connected to from terminal?16:22
RedPenguinThanks again timeless_mbp, nanddump seems to be working, no problems at all16:22
angasulehehehe right, I just couldn't think of a world-known all-around useful vehicle other than the F100, cars are boring16:23
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ShadowJKlardman, the answer isn't simple enough for some random idiots on tmo to do meaningful tests ;-)16:23
lardmansure, just wondering if there was anything useful (probably too much to ask from TMO)16:24
angasuleShadowJK: it takes specifics idiots, then? :P16:24
ShadowJKBut roughly it's something like this: any activity on 3G forces the 3G radio to transmit for something between 1 and 10 seconds, depending on the network, and depending on the conditions. In my case it's something like 5 seconds.16:24
lardmanhaving seen qwerty's 3G/2G switcher, I was wondering what sort of power saving is performed in the firmware16:24
angasulelardman: when it comes to power consumption of wireless junk, I like to do my own, since it greatly depends on coverage and other things16:24
lardmanbut 3G>2G>GPRS in the power consumption stakes?16:25
lardmanor does it also depend on transmitter location (i.e. they are not co-located)?16:25
TomaszDsoft, you need to install wireless-tools, then run iwconfig wlan0 as root16:25
ShadowJKSo if you've got IMs and IRC and what have you, several things that do random un-coordinated keep-alives, some chat activity on IRC, etc, it's very easy to have a situation where the 3G radio is continously transmitting in order to shift 60 bytes per second or similar, and this ends up consuming only slightly less than transmitting 10 megabits/sec ;-)16:25
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lardmanShadowJK: yep, but that's something that libosso should handle optionally, allowing apps to register whether they need realtime, etc16:26
lardmanthen do some sort of burst transmission16:26
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ShadowJKThere is a library/api for that already. I don't think anyone uses it16:26
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lardmanoh right, can you give me a pointer?16:27
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ShadowJKhm, I randomly stumbled upon it on ... let's see if I can do it again16:27
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RedPenguinI just put a Mini-SD card in my N810, which works fine, but once I open the stand, the Mini-SD door, pops open, sometimes ejecting the card, anyone having this?16:31
RedPenguinOr if not ejecting the card, causing the stand to not close until you push in the door16:31
lardmanit should lock in there16:31
lardmanis the card mounted?16:32
sp3000the card should lock with a click, perhaps you didn't get it deep enough16:32
lardmanI assume not16:32
ShadowJKthe minisd card should stay in there even if the door is open16:32
lardmanmuch to most people's annoyance ;)16:32
ShadowJKyeah I need to use the finger with longest nail at the time to get it to lock16:32
RedPenguinWell I will give it another look16:32
sp3000...and push in to unlock, also16:33
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ShadowJKlardman, I can't find it anymore :(16:39
ShadowJKit even had example code :/16:39
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lardmannp ShadowJK, busy now anyway16:39
lardmanif you do spot it please let me know16:39
lardmanmust be something the Nokians are thinking about, or perhaps they just assume everyone will want to charge every day.16:40
lardmanWho knows16:40
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ShadowJKyou know, xchat on 3g and, say, 20 active freenode channels has about 4-6 hour battery life, and <300bytes/sec average transfer16:45
RedPenguinThanks again, everyone, I see what the problem was16:46
RedPenguinYou really have to push it in, even with the stylus as some recommend, if you don't have long fingernails being a guy16:46
lardmanjust you wait until you try to get it back out! :)16:46
ShadikkaHas anybody measured the battery time with an active (outgoing) ssh connection?16:46
ShadowJKwhat do you mean with active16:47
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RedPenguinlardman, yes I know, I seen the one guy who actually made a YouTube video, because he was so frustrated and thought the whole design was stupid16:47
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ShadowJKI think I like it better than N800 though, where I have to claw out the card with tweezers or similar :-)16:48
* sp3000 worked a groove into his cards for the N800 :)16:48
lardmanRedPenguin: need to have a pair of tweezers in there somewhere, swiss army knife-style :)16:49
RedPenguinWhat amazes me is, the N900 has 32GB storage but still only allows 8GB cards, so that seems like backup would be a lot harder16:49
ShadowJKyou can use 32G cards... if you can find them16:50
ShadowJK16 is easier to find :)16:50
RedPenguinFrom what I seen on the Nokia site, it seemed to say 8GB only16:50
ShadowJKthat's bullshit16:50
ShadowJKPeople are using 16g cards, and the only reason it doesn't say 32g is that they couldn't find a 32g to test with16:50
sp3000the text is usually based on whatever might have been tested at the time of writing or thereabouts16:51
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sp3000or so I would suspect16:51
RedPenguinAnyone tried bigger than 8GB in the N810?16:51
sp3000it's hard to promise arbitrary future things :)16:51
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ShadowJKRedPenguin, there's one guy that sells a kind of adapter, a flat cable that you connect in the minisd slot, and the other end to a fullsize sd slot hidden under an extended battery cover he also sells, which lets you use fullsize 32gig sd cards even.. ;p16:52
RedPenguinI actually see that16:53
RedPenguinI see 16GB in the specs on the Nokia site, but I remember not too long ago, it seemed to say 8GB16:53
jXI know people that have had 16GB cards work16:54
RedPenguinjx, you mean in N900 or N810?16:55
RedPenguinFigures I have a 8GB16:56
angasuleI'd love to have international phonetic alphabet support, but I don't know which font to install, or where :?16:57
RedPenguinOne site, a guy says he used a 16GB in an 80016:59
ShadowJK32g is fine in N800 too17:00
* ShadowJK has 16+8 in his N80017:00
ShadowJKor did I have 16+16, I forget17:00
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RedPenguinWikipedia states that, 32GB is supported, just Nokia decided to "offically" only support 817:01
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Fredrik1994seems weird to me, as it may be a dealbreaker _for some_17:03
Stskeepsdealbreaker.. drink!17:03
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lardmanwhen the device was launched that was a big as they went17:04
angasuleShadikka: thanks, I didn't know deja vu had IPA, I'm installing that from the repos and hoping it's automatically used :D17:05
RedPenguinFigures I buy an 8GB, and people are already putting at least 16GB in their N810's17:05
Shadikkaangasule: np ;)17:05
lardmanor more probably when they performed their hw testing, that was as big as there was17:05
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angasuleyay! it did, now I can properly study languages :D17:07
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RedPenguinOne maemo thread states any card, no matter what size in the future will work on N800/N81017:13
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* Fredrik1994 wants to have a 1TB card working in N90017:14
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SpeedEvilThe SD interface is more like USB than RAM.17:14
SpeedEvilThere is no specific fixed width mandated in hardware.17:14
SpeedEvilIt's pretty much just a software thing.17:15
RedPenguinThat's what I'm seeing basically17:16
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RedPenguinFigures I may have to get a 32GB or something in place of the 8GB instead17:16
* RST38h moos17:17
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angasule8GB should be enough for everyone.17:17
SpeedEvilAlso as the flash is never exposed to the outside world - it goes through an interface chip - having that chip support 3.3V is essentially  free.17:18
SpeedEvilSo there is little pressure to reduce voltage.17:18
RedPenguinangasule, yes, you are probably right, not sure I feel like dishing out the extra cash to get 16/32 anyway, when I have not even come close to feeling the 817:19
ShadowJKthe price difference between 8 and 16 is kinda huge17:20
RST38hAh, nice:
angasuleRedPenguin: I was making fun of the 640kb phrase, come on! :)17:21
* RST38h did not know things like that already existed, good to know that his predictions were right on target17:21
SpeedEvilsave the money by buying an 8, and use it to buy a 3217:21
marcelshi guys, I just installed the sdk (fremantle) on my debian installation and works almost perfect. The only problem I have is that the cli (scratchbox/login) can use the internet connection from the host, but the gui (Xephyr) can't. Anyone here who can point me in the right direction?17:22
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RedPenguinoh, angasule, I see what you mean now17:23
SpeedEvilWhere does the 'gps recorder' app drop files?17:24
RedPenguinI noticed though, for some reason, even though many 8GB micro's come with Mini and SD converters, many 16/32GB micro's seem strictly to come with SD only converters17:25
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* Arkenoi yet to see 32Gb micros from a reliable source17:27
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RedPenguinLooking at people's reviews of SD cards are interesting, when they say they will only knock it stars if it's defective17:32
ShadowJKIt's just that 99.9% of them are incompetent to review sd cards17:38
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[Tycho]There are something to review about sd cards except for reliability and may be speed ? :)17:42
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ShadowJKSpeed, power consumption17:43
ShadowJK95% are incompetent to review speed17:43
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Arifhi ;o17:45
* [Tycho] uses sd card only in video recorded and as backup card in photo camera so the only parameter that i worry about is price :)17:47
Arifanyone with an N900 about? :)17:47
BirdFlewyep, Arif17:48
ArifCould you try something for me?17:48
SpeedEvilanyone know where the gps recorder desktop thingy drops its files?17:49
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derfRST38h: Pong.17:54
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unixSnobanyone know of a dual sim phone with wifi that will work as a router to serve an n800?17:56
derflardman: Pong to you, too.17:57
ArifAnyone know if it's possible to stream TS muxed video to the N900?17:57
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RST38hderf: Ah, yes18:00
RST38hderf: You mentioned once about sticking more icons into Maemo5 toolbar than it was designed for18:00
RST38hderf: Any pointers on how to do this?18:00
derfHuh, I don't remember mentioning that.18:00
* RST38h kinda avoided this problem with FBReader today, but it will probably reappear again18:00
RST38hhmmm... ok18:01
derfOh, I see.18:01
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derfI wasn't using a toolbar when I was trying to get rid of space around buttons.18:02
RST38hWith HBox it should not be hard18:02
RST38hBut the toolbar causes a few problems18:02
RedPenguinAnyone actually try the Ubuntu 9.04 on N810? I just saw the link that this was done.18:03
RST38hThat is probably about chrooted environment18:03
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derfI was actually trying to stick them in a GtkTable.18:03
derfAnyway, what I wound up doing was using gtk_rc_parse_string() to define a custom style for the buttons.18:04
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RST38hderf: this may actually work with the toolbar as it has functions to set style =)18:06
RST38hOf course I am not sure at all that the hildon-lobotomized toolbar heeds any styles...18:07
derfThat still left an annoying amount of space between the buttons... no idea who was adding that.18:07
RST38hderf: probably was due to table's own spacer18:07
derfBut it kept the image inside from pushing it out even farther.18:07
derfRST38h: Yeah, I tried messing with the table, too. Never could get anywhere.18:08
Arkenoihildon-status-menu eats 95% cpu, wtf?18:08
tenfari have find a way to build a FIASCO image18:08
derfBut that solved my problem enough that I didn't care anymore.18:08
RST38hderf: Well, I solved the problem at hand at a higher level18:10
RST38hderf: there was no space for the Net Library icon in FBReader and it is not possible to move it to the menu18:10
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RST38hderf: So i move Net Library icon to the Library View (the one that opens when you press the folder icon in the current FBReader build)18:11
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derfYeah, best is just to have fewer buttons.18:11
RST38hs/i move/I moved18:11
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RST38hderf: Not always possible18:11
derfBut as I think I mentioned, I can't tell the Japanese language to use fewer radicals.18:11
RST38hderf: AFAIK, Anidel is still struggling with the same problem18:11
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derfAnd you really do need to be able to see all of them at once.18:11
RST38hderf: zooming UI then?18:12
derfThat sounds like work.18:12
RST38hwell, having unhealthy sexual relationship with gtk+ guts sounds like more work to me18:13
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derfYes, but I never have to call her again.18:14
derfAnd we don't need to see each other socially.18:14
RST38hweelll...we will see that...18:14
derfAnyway, dawn is here. Time to go hiking.18:15
RST38hIs autobuilder dead again?18:15
*** victorpoluceno has quit IRC18:16 sent me email about successfully building the package but that did not show up at the website. Weird crap.18:16
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sp3000Arkenoi: some dodgy plugin on it?18:19
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Arkenoisp3000: maybe, but how to determine which one?18:22
sp3000the slow way, I guess18:22
sp3000or, some sort of sampling...18:23
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Stskeepstenfar: hmm?18:27
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ShadowJKis qwerty no longer on irc?18:35
tenfarStskeeps: what?18:35
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lcukx200ShadowJK, no, we miss him terribly18:36
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ShadowJKwanted to know the reasoning behind making mode selection applet strictly 2g/3g only, without the dual mode18:37
lardmanShadowJK: I spoke with him yesterday on email18:38
lardmanShadowJK: said IRC was turning to shit iirc ;)18:38
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xorAxAxmaybe you can convince him to join #maemo-devel18:38
lardmanperhaps I should join that myself ;)18:39
ShadowJKmaybe this thing is trivial enough that I could modify it18:39
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hrw|n900vote for bug #7787 and bug #778818:41
povbot`Bug lack of way to disable emoticons in chat view18:41
povbot`Bug emoticons are displayed in chat view but messages list do not shows them18:41
xorAxAxhrw|n900: you havent voted yourself18:41
hrw|n900xor: I reported them18:42
xorAxAxthen you cannot vote? ok18:42
tenfarsleep.good night every one18:42
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hrw|n900xor: I think that i18:43
lcukx200hrw|gone, but emotes are good :(18:43
hrw|n900should not vote for own reported18:43
lcukx200emotes dont want disabling :(18:43
RST38hemotes sucj18:44
* lcukx200 is yanking chain and voting :)18:44
hrw|n900lcuk: check 7787 message then18:44
RST38hwhen I type ":)" I mean ":)" not some grinning goblin18:44
fralshrw|n900: did you search before reporting? 7787 looks a lot like *imo*18:45
povbot`Bug 7127: Add option to disable smiley icons in conversations18:45
hrw|n900worse when it is part of generated pass..18:45
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: usually mature users are allowed to disable emoticons inmail and chat clients 8)18:45
hrw|n900frals: was searching for emoticons...18:46
hrw|n900battery dies :(18:46
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xorAxAxhrw|n900: mark it as a duplicate18:47
hrw|n900did that18:48
hrw|n900and voted on 712718:49
crashanddiebug #712718:49
povbot`Bug Add option to disable smiley icons in conversations18:49
crashanddiethanks povbot`18:49
DocScrutinizer51ah ouch now I get it. conversations as in "SMS" -- eeew18:50
hrw|n900andre is offline:18:51
lardmanDocScrutinizer51: more mature users need the little pictures shown so they know what the hell ";)" is supposed to mean! ;)18:51
lardmanthough certainly they are a major pita if you use MSN to send code inside the office18:52
hrw|n900DocScrutinizer51: here it is 'rozmowy' which is 'chats'18:52
hrw|n900RST38h: can you change few default shortcuts in xchat?18:53
ifreqthere is OCS for inside messaging @office18:53
hrw|n900RST38h: shift+space is nice for nick completion for example.18:53
* hrw|n900 still needs to find how to switch channels from keyboard...18:54
ifreqhrw|n900: esc +a18:54
ifreqif you mean irssi18:54
ifreqah for xchat.. nvm18:54
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hrw|n900ifreq: no, I mean xchat18:55
hrw|n900ifreq: in irssi I use Alt+numbers (not on n900)18:55
* lcukx200 shivers18:56
RST38hhrw: nick completion shortcut already in place18:56
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RST38hhrw: it should work18:56
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hrw|n900RST38h: I just set shift-space for it and it works for me.18:57
RST38hhrw: It is set by default18:57
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johnqhrw|n900: which client are you using?18:58
hrw|n900ok, time to end - battery...18:58
hrw|n900johnq: xchat/fremantle18:58
Chikufremantle is maemo v5 name?18:59
RST38hhrw: remove ~/.xchat2 and see if the default settings are to your liking19:00
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RST38hhrw: You can then either restore your old xchat2 dir or migrate a few settings19:00
RST38hif you are keeping your old xchat2 dir, disable lagometer there19:00
johnqhrw|n900: ok, i'll try it19:00
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KenYoungHow can I submit a package to the "Extras Testing" queue?19:03
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DocScrutinizer51anybody checked flashlight and/or load applet updates of today yet?19:08
xorAxAxKenYoung: by promoting it from the package page19:09
KenYoungxorAxAx, I don't understand - by the package page, do you mean the project's page in the Maemo Garage?19:10
xorAxAxKenYoung: no. did you upload your source package already?19:10
KenYoungxorAxAx, I uploaded both a source tarball, and a .deb package for installation, to the project's page in the Maemo Garage site.19:11
xorAxAxKenYoung: you need to use dput to upload your package ... it is explained on ...19:11
KenYoungxorAxAx, Thanks very much for the pointer!19:12
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RevdKathyLcuk? Was it something I said?19:33
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: all simple use-cases i can see work fine with latest flashlight19:38
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: it goes on if hte shutter is open - doesn't crash if it's closed, and the camera app fails to open as it should I guess. cpu applet worked too - thoguh IIRC I had to reboot.19:39
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer51: 'powatool' seemed to do bad things for me - maybe.19:39
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: thanks19:40
* DocScrutinizer51 kicks off an update19:40
DocScrutinizer51though I really hate that boot part :-P19:41
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xorAxAxwhy do you need to boot?19:44
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N900evilgood question19:45
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salmanwoow, I was planning to download the maemo sdk for testing, evaluation and learning to program it, but I found it is 1.5 GB compressed, that is a huge download for me19:47
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* N900evil counts installed apps. 4219:48
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N900evilcut finger makekes typing hard19:50
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: no boot here. all fine :-)19:51
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KenYoungsalman - if you *really* can't download it, I could send it to you on a DVD.19:57
salmanKenYoung, oh thank you. the thing is that I have a 4GB download limits at home which after that I will suffer a worse than dialup speed for the rest of the month :-)19:59
salmanI would have to do the download in work were I have a open download limit with a around 1mb spoeed19:59
zashdownload limits? in 2010? what the hell19:59
KenYoungsalman, So does that mean you want me to send it to you?20:00
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salmanzash, we have 4 or 5 isp, all  have limits, and the prices are ...20:00
WolfieI'm incredibly glad that this download cap crap has never come to Finland20:02
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RST38hjust wait...20:02
salmanA 6GB limit with a speed of 'upto' 'theoretical'  2mibs is $48/month20:02
Wolfieit's enough that the rates are pretty abysmal unless you live in the middle of the top-10 largest cities20:02
Wolfieboth speed and moneywise20:03
N900evilonly have cap on mobile thankfully20:03
salmanI would never dream of using the net on mobile, that is suicide to my pocket and heart20:03
N900evilwell - 20g daytime /month too on dsl20:03
Wolfiesalman: n900 without a mobile data contract is pretty suicide...20:04
N900evil1g/mo for 3.30£20:04
ShadowJKWolfie, the ideal place to live for 3G speeds, is a place in the middle of nowhere, where hte operator has just placed a fresh new 3g transmitter a month ago, so nobody else is using it yet ;-)20:04
* ShadowJK just clocked 600kbyte/s on gpodder on 3.5g :D20:05
Wolfienow, i can rejoice that I don't have to walk to the neighboring room to my laptop, if i have my n900 in my pocket :)20:05
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WolfieShadowJK: sure. But that lasts about 6 months.20:05
ShadowJKyeah :-(20:05
RST38h30GB at $23/mo20:05
salmanWolfie, I know :-( I plan on using it within wifi hotspot range20:05
RST38hAt 100Mbd20:05
WolfieShadowJK: the relocation costs are pretty high :)20:05
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RST38hActually, 30GB is not really a cap, it just gets charged higher if you exceed it20:06
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ShadowJKWolfie, it might be cheaper to hire people to kill everyone else who uses it ;-)20:06
RST38hAnd the internal traffic is not being counted, so you can download all the pirate movies you want (too bad I do not want any)20:06
salmanmy great ISP,
WolfieRST38h: i might buy into that, depending on the contracts20:07
RST38hWolfie: Contracts? What contracts?20:07
salman$1 = BD0.37520:07
RST38hNo contracts. You deposit money, it gets subtracted on the daily basis, little by little (comes to $23/mo)20:07
WolfieRST38h: i mean, if the sub-30gb range is mildly priced, and what comes above that isn't unreasonably expensive20:08
RST38hWhen money runs out, you get disconnected. At that point you call these guys and say "could you please connect me for now, I will pay tomorrow"20:08
RST38hAnd you pay tomorrow :)20:08
RST38hWolfie: You mean, $23/mo is too high? :)20:08
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crashanddieI love how some people moan about the fact that a couple of dozen bucks is too expensive for x feature or y service20:09
RST38hNo-cap tariff starts at $19 and you get 4Mbd either way20:09
RST38hNo limit.20:10
crashanddiejust get yourself a fucking job, stop wasting money on prostitutes, and stop moaning 24/720:10
WolfieRST38h: not at all. Especially if it's over 2mbps down20:10
RST38hWolfie: It is 100Mbps20:10
* ifreq gets sim via phone.. 0eur / month usage20:10
Wolfiei want your web20:10
ifreqerr via WORK* ffu..20:10
Wolfiei'm paying 41 euros for 8/1 adsl.20:11
Wolfiecapless or not, that's way too much20:11
crashanddieheh, 30 euros for 100/10 here as well :) Plus free TV and phone20:11
Wolfiewell, actually _i'm_ not paying all of that. But that's a nother story20:11
RST38hfuck free tv and phone20:12
RST38hno good for anything, anyway20:12
crashanddieRST38h: calling the whole world for free is shite?20:16
crashanddieRST38h: don't know for you, but my family doesn't exactly live all in the same area, so for us it's pretty useful20:16
crashanddieRST38h: my mum calls me + rest of family for free, I use SIP service on same line to call them as well20:17
salmanthese are the only adsl packages we have, the fastest is 16/.5 speed with 80GB limits costing $26620:17
xorAxAxcrashanddie: get a job and pay 266 USD20:18
xorAxAxthats probably more than an average monthly salary20:18
crashanddieWhere the f do you live?20:18
WolfiexorAxAx: boy you must be rich20:18
crashanddie266 USD average monthly salary? That's the average salary in the Ukraine20:18
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xorAxAxhe is living in bahrain20:18
crashanddieoh well20:19
crashanddienot far off then20:19
xorAxAxWolfie: ?20:19
crashanddiexorAxAx: and I have a pretty good job, thank you very much ;)20:19
salmanthe average salary here is around BD30020:19
crashanddiesalman: what's BD?20:19
crashanddiebahrain dollars?20:19
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crashanddiehmm, dinars20:20
timelesscrash: googletalk is nice20:20
timelessoh hey20:20
salmancrashanddie, $1 =BD0.375, Bahraini Dinars, so that makes it $80020:20
redeemancrashanddie: which might just be worth more than dollars now, lol20:20
redeemanoh well20:20
timelessi owe you hys complaints20:20
RST38hcrashanddie: calling card. landline. $0.03/min to US20:20
crashanddieredeeman: BDs are worth more than pounds, so yeah, definitely worth more than usd20:21
timelessyour libs aren't signed20:21
crashanddieRST38h: why would I want to do that?20:21
RST38hcrashanddie: Because you can take the receiver off a normal desk phone and talk into it?20:21
crashanddieRST38h: and I can't do this now why?20:22
salmanBD is tied with the $, same as almost all of the other arab oil countries20:22
crashanddieRST38h: I use the n810 + headset as phone, works for me20:22
crashanddienever tried with the n90020:22
RST38hcrashanddie: so, you canno do this now.20:22
xorAxAxsalman: imagine if they tied it to EUR :)20:22
Anidelhi crashanddie :) how are you doing?20:22
crashanddieRST38h: so your only argument against my ISP offering free SIP to the whole wide world is that it's not as convenient as picking up a phone, and instead I have to go through the trouble of using a device I worship and adore?20:23
timelesscrash: think you can poke someone about signing?20:23
crashanddietimeless: hmm?20:23
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RST38hcrashanddie: Guess so.20:23
RST38h+ SIP sucks.20:23
LuciusMarefuck this,its snowing on my n90020:24
timelesswindows pe exe/dll support codesiging20:24
infobottimeless meant: windows pe exe/dll support codesigning20:24
LuciusMarehow did it come out in water stress tests?20:24
crashanddietimeless: probably on next versions of the software, we won't do it retroactively though20:24
timelessi'm going to try to make gecko refuse unsigned libs20:24
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crashanddietimeless: we have a few versions that will be distributed through windows update anyway20:24
crashanddietimeless: btw, I'm moving from that space at the moment20:25
crashanddietimeless: still with the company, but becoming tech lead for an aussie project20:25
timelessroughly speaking, one "vendor" is distributed crap via all the major credit card companies20:26
timeless*unsigned* crap20:26
timelesssome w/o even including versioninfo20:26
timelessi'm tired if blacklisting20:26
timelessso, solution: you must be this high to enter20:27
timelessreboot time, no cellmo here :o20:27
crashanddie"You must be this high to enter", reminds me of the weed club I had in high school20:27
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RST38hFBReader 0.10.7-10 now in Extras-Devel, promoting to -Testing20:33
tybolltugh anyone got the url for that tweak to make fennec not use diskbased memmory20:35
mj_hi all, just want to know what is the best place to start learning for maemo? I have just installed ubuntu and the sdk20:35
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ifreqmj_: ask from #maemo-devel perhaps20:35
mj_ifreq: thanks will do20:36
RST38hWell... "fast" isn't exactly the right word here20:37
RST38hMore like "a little bit faster"20:37
moo-_-fennec RC2 has been released20:37
tybolltmj_: grazie20:37
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tybolltRST38h: anything better than what is default would do.20:38
tybolltfennec rc2 is still a world apart from the built in browser20:38
moo-_-tybollt: true that20:38
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tybolltdoes fennec have a zooming option like the twirl one?20:40
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tybolltwow yes20:42
tybolltthat was a big speed increase (for my entirey unscientific testing)20:43
tybolltI'd go as far as saying the thing is half useable now ;)20:43
RST38hnot really20:43
RST38htry opening or anything.livejornal.com20:44
RST38hI am sure will also be an eye opener20:44
mecewhat is being tested?20:44
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tybolltw/ and w/out disk cache enabled20:44
meceoic. is it slower than b?20:44
tybolltlots lots L O T S :)20:45
meceok.. I figured as much. 's why I haven't bothered yet.20:45
moo-_-tybollt: here are some RC1 comments - I need to update the blog post:
tybollthowever, it gets bit faster w/ disk cache20:45
RST38hmoo: War?20:45
RST38hMore like a slaughter20:45
tybolltbut as RST38h says it's still far from being useable (why is he olways right? :P )20:45
moo-_-RST38h: well yes... but it would be not kind to call it a slaughter ^^20:45
mikhas"Safari ships with iPhone"?20:46
mikhassurely it's the other way around =)20:46
b-man17mece, YA RLY20:46
mecehow's midori btw?20:47
moo-_-mece: not usable20:47
moo-_-mece: it's direct desktop port.. UI is useless20:47
meceI've been content with micorb so I haven't bothered with any other browsers.20:47
mecemoo-_-: ok.20:47
mecehow about that other webkit one then?20:48
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mecesome direct desktop ports are awesome though. Freeciv ftw!20:48
moo-_-mece: you can forgot all free-time driven community efforts... they just don't have what's needed to deliver a working UI20:48
mikhasthat hurt20:49
moo-_-mikhas: it is matter of resources20:49
mikhasI know what you mean20:49
moo-_-mikhas: of course I wish someone proves me being wrong :)20:49
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moo-_-but I am being pragmatic though as much I love open source20:50
mecemoo-_-, I'm not really that fuzzed about UI. if there's a place to write the adress and some bookmarks I'm pretty much set. It's what happens with the webpages that interest me.20:50
mecearen't microb and fennec open source anyway?20:50
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timelessmicrob is an engine20:51
timelessthe ui isn't open source20:51
timelessit's also crappy and uninteresting20:51
mecetimeless, ok.20:51
mecetimeless, is it? Seems to work just fine to me. As in not crappy.20:52
timelessthe engine is good20:52
timelessthe ui has issues20:52
timelessbut the goal is for it to disappear asap20:53
timelessso you can just browse20:53
mecetimeless, well it does that :)20:53
moo-_-the best user interface is the invisible user interface! ^_^20:53
timelessas long as you don't see it and pages work20:53
timelessit's doing its job, and you're happy20:53
mecemoo-_-, exactly!20:53
tybolltmoo-_-: granted midori does the horizontal vs vetical screen alignment correctly20:53
timelesswhen you're happy, we're happy20:53
w00ttimeless: it will go away? what will happen to the UI when it vanishes? :-o20:53
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konttoritimeless: do you know why the 'bookmarks' view doesn't disappear when an ACTUAL browser is opened from it?20:54
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moo-_-w00t: there is a "zooop" voice and it's gone!20:54
timelesstybollt: you mean irentation?20:54
mecetimeless, there's actually one thing that bothers me with it though20:54
w00tmoo-_-: hah20:54
* konttori doesn't like the 'lingering' bookmarks view20:54
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mecekonttori, I really like the lingering bookmarks view :)20:54
timelesskontorri: dunno actually20:54
timelessit's probably in the ui spec20:54
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w00tI quite like that20:54
mecekonttori, it bothered me at first, but now I find it practical since I alwasy open a couple of site when I get going20:54
w00tI use it to launch all my windows20:54
* mece agrees with w00t20:55
konttoritimeless: well, of course it's the spec, but why is it like that20:55
konttoriit's easy enough to change the spec if needed.20:55
timelessi can't think of any reason to do what it does20:55
mecekonttori, timeless, perhaps this is something that could be an option.20:55
timelessmece: NO!20:55
mecetimeless, why not?20:56
timelessprefs are B*D20:56
timelessthey increase testing20:56
mecetimeless, if it's removed, the browser is worse for me.20:56
timelessthey increase testingincrease code20:56
w00tdidn't we just point out why it would be useful, btw?20:56
timelessincrease maintenance20:56
timelessincrease blaoat20:56
timelessincrease confusion20:56
mecetimeless, true.20:56
mecetimeless, so don't change it :P20:56
ProteousDOWN WITH TOGGLES!!20:56
timelessit's bad enough zoom v. audio will be a pref20:56
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Proteousthere is an easy fix, just put all your bookmarks on the desktop20:57
mecetimeless, zoom v audio annoys me.20:57
w00tProteous: i'd love to, but i've got too many of them20:57
ProteousMORE SCREENS!20:57
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konttorimece:  why do you find it useful?20:57
RST38hEach program should come with exactly one button20:57
Proteousonce you get used to the fact that it's perfectly okay to have a bunch of things open,  you get over the bookmarks thing20:58
ProteousA GO BUTTONG!20:58
RST38hStyle guide should require this button to be right in the middle of the screen, have round shape, and take at least 30% of the screen area20:58
Proteouser, button20:58
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timelesswe're working on making it worse/more confusing20:58
konttoriRST38h: you mean the do what I'm thinking you should do -button?20:58
timelessdon't worry20:58
RST38hThis should do wonders for testing20:58
RST38hkonttori: Not necessarily. If it simply shows a message "Not sufficient resources to do what you want me to do", that will suffice20:58
mecekonttori, I usually open 2 or 3 pages when I start browsing. It's very nice to have the bookmark view ready and waiting, so I can just pop up that other thing withnout haveing to reload it.20:58
konttoritimeless: what? zoom and audio +- buttons will be a pref?20:59
mikhasI agree with Proteous' solution here20:59
mikhashave a screen dedicated to bookmarks works great20:59
konttorimece: can't you do that with just ctrl+n a few times?20:59
w00tbecause ctrl+n involves popping a keyboard21:00
konttorialso, you could just have one click more to open the same browser start view again every time21:00
mecectrl-n opens empty on my phone21:00
* timeless nods21:00
timelessif things don't change21:01
konttoriwell, then the additional one click would not be so bad. I recon you could do it even faster than the current way21:01
meceif ctrl-n opened bookmarks then it would be ok for me.21:01
timelessodds are it won't work right either21:01
konttorimece: doesn't some other shortcut open bookmarks?21:01
timelessi'm betting flashand friends will get it wrong21:01
meceI guess you could modify the bookmarks to open _top instead of _new. then it wouldn't linger afaik21:01
mecekonttori, no idea.21:01
mecectrl-b, but not in a new window21:02
meceso ctrl-n ctrl-b I guess.21:02
meceImma try that21:02
meceyep it works. fast.21:02
meceok. now I would be ok with bookmarks opening in the same window. but I don't mind the way it is now.21:03
mecewhere's that bookmark file tucked away?21:03
timelessit's an xml file in home21:04
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Vengefulhi maemo ppl21:05
mecetimeless, yeah found it. hmm no "target" tag. I wonder if one could be added?21:06
meceok anyway I gotta go.21:06
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meceaw feck. ctrl-w on nano still segfaults :/21:08
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Xamusksorry, my connection is pretty messy today21:19
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Klowneranyone know the command to launch the browser? is it browser launch?21:22
tybolltwhen I've downloaded my remote and I have it there in the list21:22
tybolltI click on it and just get a grey screen, hmm... how do I make the remote appear?21:22
Klownererr browser.launch rather21:22
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timelessstay away from .launch21:23
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odin_in scratchbox by default "./configure && make" targets I38621:24
Klownermicrob suddenly stopped working and Im trying to find error logs or something21:24
Vengefulerrr there is no msn plugin like haze or telepathy that can be used to do multiple login like msn 9.0 right?21:26
timelessyou want   /usr/bin/browser_dbuscmd.sh21:26
Vengefuli simply hate to choose between pc or n900 connected to that account21:26
MyrttiI didn't know msn allows multiple logins21:26
Myrttithings you learn every day21:26
Vengefulthe latest version can21:27
Vengefulit's the only plus from the forced switching from 8.521:27
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LuciusMarehow can i connect to a hidden (but paired) device with bluemaemo?21:28
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Proteoushow come the contacts app brings up a SMS option for non cell phone numbers. Can you SMS landlines now or something?21:30
timelesssounds like a bug ib bluemaemo21:30
microlithfacebook widget vanished21:30
timelesspaired devices should always be available21:30
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odin_what is the "./configure --host xxxxx" for cross-compling to N900 ?21:31
LuciusMarethey're not, it searches for them21:31
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microlithodin_: if you're using scratchbox, swapping your target using sb-menu will cover that automatically21:32
LuciusMarewait,nevermind,accessing paired devices is through "reconnect"21:32
LuciusMarehow obvious21:32
odin_microlith, ok used sb-menu to SELECT FREMANTLE_ARMEL, but ./configure still fails the same21:33
tybolltany qtirreco users here?21:34
timelessfails how? - pastebin21:34
tybolltProteous: yes you can sms landlines21:34
tybolltI can do that21:34
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Klownerhmmph, I've clearly broken something21:36
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odin_should build/host=arm ?  I thought it was "target=arm" and "build=i686"21:37
timelessdid you enable qemu and friends?21:37
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timelessit's possible to totally botch your arm sbox stup21:37
timelessi do it often21:37
odin_[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/bash-4.1] > cc: --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi  <<-- This looks correct, but ./configure has build=arm, host=arm21:38
timelessread config.log21:38
GeneralAntilleskonttori, Maemo 5 irritates me with how many open windows it leaves behind.21:38
mkargari want upddate my n900 frimware!doy you recomended?anu update availabled for it?21:38
Xamuskso, I've been out for some time now... has anyone managed to do a decent implementation for PDA stuff for maemo4, like calendars and contacts?21:38
odin_yes "config.log" has: If you meant to cross compile, use `--host', but that means sb-menu is broken ?21:38
timelessxamusk: afaik your onlychoice is gpe21:39
timelesswhich probably means 'no'21:39
Xamusktimeless: that's bad :(21:39
* timeless shrugs21:39
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odin_envvars set are: HOSTTYPE=i686, MACHTYPE=i686-pc-linux-gnu, SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE=arm21:39
timelessit was never a marketted feature21:39
GeneralAntillesWhy is it that there's yet to be a Maemo 5 theme that actually changes the base look? . . .21:39
Xamuskit's quite curious a tablet almost like a PDA can't do PDA stuff21:39
odin_well nothing useful in config.log for me21:39
timelessand fact of the matter, it has never been an OSS strong area21:40
timelesslightning and friends are improving but are definitely not ready for mobile21:40
konttoritimeless: let's really try to see if we could close bookmarks by default on action. I'll fight the UI guys for you if it comes to that.21:40
timelessfine w/ me21:40
XamuskI just wished there was some sort of applet for alarms synced to Google Calendar21:40
timelessplease file a public bug21:41
timelessxamusk: maemo5 or 6's calendar could probably someday do that21:41
mkargari want upddate my n900 frimware!doy you recomended?anu update availabled for it?21:41
GeneralAntilleskonttori, can contacts close after searching and selecting a contact from the desktop?21:42
timelessmkargar: afaik 51-1 hasn't been pushed to regulars21:42
timelessi.e. "wait"21:42
Klownerhrmph, weird dbus error21:42
timelessyou'll get an update notice from your n90021:42
GeneralAntilles"Clean up all of the open windows" seems to be the last step in nearly anything I do. . . .21:42
timelessgan: bah21:42
odin_microlith, how does sb-menu cover fixing up ./configure --host/--build and --target options automatically ?21:42
timelessi'd rather contacts not crash regularly21:42
timelessand no, i don't have crash reporter installed21:43
GeneralAntillestimeless, PR1.1 is probably more descriptive until a version is actually released. ;)21:43
konttoriGeneralAntilles: could be done. I'll try to remember.21:43
* GeneralAntilles has seen mention of at least a 51-2.21:43
timelessyeah, i don't think -1 will reach normal people21:43
timelessprobably a good thing21:43
timelesswe could claim we took beta tester feedback ;)21:44
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konttoriGeneralAntilles: on latest and greates, it doesn't close the contacts.21:44
GeneralAntillestimeless, hehe.21:45
Xamuskin doubt, make an option21:45
timelesskonttori: my problem is that my average call *fails*21:45
timelessso i want21:45
timelessxamusk: NO21:45
timelesssee earlier21:45
GeneralAntillesXamusk, yeah, bad plan.21:45
timelessget it right or leave it alone21:45
GeneralAntillesEspecially on a mobile device where finding options that need scrolling to is damn near impossible for a lot of people.21:45
konttoriGeneralAntilles: changes base look - how?21:45
Xamuskthere's never a complete "right" dealing with user preferences21:46
GeneralAntilleskonttori, i.e., not black and gradiented.21:46
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timelesskonttori: well, replaces the pin entry borders would be a nice start21:46
konttorioh, nuvofre is almost totally white21:46
timelessenable a pin, install "reflect" and reboot21:46
GeneralAntilleskonttori, Ian is working on a beige-based theme, but other than that it's all seemingly small changes.21:46
GeneralAntilleskonttori, link?21:46
konttoriand at least most of the themes in ovi store are mostly white if I remember correctly21:46
GeneralAntilleskonttori, for instance:
GeneralAntillesWhich pretty much screams "Digital Nature - Green" to me.21:47
timelessstore has content?21:47
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konttorithat seems to be a copy of the devel theme21:47
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konttoriwell, nicely made one21:47
Xamuskso, will maemo5 ever be available for poor people with N800 like me?21:48
infobotit has been said that mer is, or on #mer21:48
timelessxamusk ^21:48
konttoriGeneralAntilles: I have to rebuild nuvo and upload. Will take a sec. WIll upload then.21:48
GeneralAntillesI hate having the stupid "Software Installed/Updated" Hildon Note in h-a-m pull input focus to the freaking BACKGROUND application.21:48
konttoriGeneralAntilles: fixed in pr1.221:49
timelessoh, nice21:49
konttoriGeneralAntilles: do you want the theme with smaller fonts or will default fonts do?21:49
timelessis there a public bug tracking that?21:49
GeneralAntilleskonttori, default's fine.21:49
konttorino idea21:49
GeneralAntillestimeless, not as far as I'm aware.21:49
GeneralAntillestimeless, I've been planning on filing that one for weeks.21:49
timelessgan: can you fix that21:49
GeneralAntillestimeless, not until I know it's not going to be lost in another database fsck-up.21:50
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Xamuskdamn!... apt just restarted my tablet21:50
konttoriwell, servers will be upgraded next week, so perhaps hold on until that21:50
timelessgan: have you enabled all bugjmail?21:50
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timelessthen you can refile from your archives21:51
Klowneris supposed to launch microb, any arguments required or anything?21:51
timelessyou probably need load_url21:51
timelessand a url21:51
GeneralAntillestimeless, god no.21:52
odin_why is ./configure trying to run a binary built for the target (and not the host/build) ?  could it be something to do with the odd: "uname -m = arm" on this X86 box ?21:52
xorAxAxkonttori: from 770 to n900? :)21:52
timelessklowner, and technically it sends a dbus command to whatever browser is21:52
timelessodin: sbox is...21:52
GeneralAntillesIt'd be really nice to get some sort of update to know what is going on.21:52
konttoriGeneralAntilles: testing the theme now, will upload if it works21:52
timelessroughly a bad arm machine21:53
Klownertimeless: ahh, hrmm. I'm trying to hunt down the cause of microb not launching at all :/21:53
guysoft22hi all, is there a package for maemo 4 for pocket sphinx?21:53
timelessand configure needs to know if the binaries it makes work21:53
timelessotherwise it's wasting time21:53
timelessklwoner: install crash-report and sysklogd21:54
* timeless goes home21:54
odin_huh.... it a tool is required to build the project, it should use the host/build compiler for that and run that, but it doesn't need to know if the target binaries work, that is not part of the "build" phase... it would be part of the "test" phase21:54
Klownertimeless: ah good thinkin, I shall21:54
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odin_so scratchbox is not a "cross-complication platform" ?  what is the best cross-complication platform for N900 ?21:54
konttoriGeneralAntilles: works. Uploading now.21:54
xorAxAxodin_: sure it is21:56
GeneralAntilleskonttori, cool.21:56
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odin_how do I fix this brain damaged "uname -m = arm" on an Intel box ?  that is plain incorrect21:56
slonopotamusodin_, by deinstalling scratchbox.21:57
hrw-n900odin_: curse developer of app21:57
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hrw-n900slonopotamus: crapbox breaks even that? omg21:57
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odin_why does "deinstalling" help ?  since I can just exit scratchbox21:58
xorAxAxodin_: in which target are you?21:58
slonopotamusodin_, to prevent reoccurences of this bug :)21:58
odin_I am currently trying with: ./configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi  (which is the same as the CC cross-compiler)21:59
xorAxAxreal men use a hexeditor to cross compile21:59
xorAxAxodin_: in which target are you operating?21:59
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odin_arm-none-linux-gnueabi  aka FREMANTLE_ARMEL21:59
xorAxAxthen arm is correct for the uname -m output21:59
* Myrtti is shocked; even I knew that22:00
odin_unset SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE <<-- seems to fix uname -a back to sanity22:00
konttoriGeneralAntilles: lemme know what you hate about that theme22:00
odin_no uname is the HOST22:00
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odin_its a HOST command to determinte the HOST system, it has nothing to do with a cross-complication target22:00
mkargar_maemo extra repo still is down?22:00
hrw-n900konttori: how goes pr1.0.1 work?22:01
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xorAxAxkonttori: when is 1.0.1 and 1.2 planned to be released?22:01
hrw-n900odin_: if software uses uname to check arch then it is plainky broken22:02
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DocScrutinizer51cross-complicaton. neat :)22:02
hrw-n900xorAxAx: no 1.1?22:02
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odin_it is ./configure using it, to build, it the use of it, is correct22:02
konttorixorAxAx: non-discloasable information. well, as I said on friday, 101 release is approved, so expect very very soon22:02
hrw-n900odin_: or uses it...22:03
konttori1.1 soonish22:03
konttori1.2 not so soon22:03
konttoridid that help?22:03
odin_lol, I dumped scratchbox completelyt and existed it.... and I just run:  ./configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi  (from the HOST bash prompt and it its running now without errors)22:03
GeneralAntilleskonttori, OK, looks great.22:03
infobotodin_ meant: lol, I dumped scratchbox completelyt and exited it.... and I just run:  ./configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi  (from the HOST bash prompt and it its running now without errors)22:03
GeneralAntilleskonttori, one complaint is that the pannable area background doesn't contrast enough against the menubar.22:03
xorAxAxkonttori: as you might know more than others, how is maemo pronounced?22:04
hrw-n900konttori: 1.1 will be about 24.12.2010 - just as announced22:04
konttorigood point. SHould fix it22:04
lcukx200xorAxAx, has the answer properly22:04
lcukx200hey konttori22:04
konttorihrw-n900: lol22:04
xorAxAxlcukx200: where?22:04
Klownerah-ha, it was browser-switchboard that made it screwy22:04
hrw-n900konttori: it was said that 1.1 will be around xmas22:04
GeneralAntilleskonttori, "PR1.2 not as soon" is more appropriately vague. ;)22:05
konttoriwell, we want to have enough dev time between 1.1 and 1.2 so that the release feels more like a proper release.22:05
* hrw-n900 wants base system upgraded to Lenny instead of that disaster mix which maemo5 is now22:05
RST38hAnyone knows WHEN 1.1 will be at all? =)22:06
konttorialso due to e.g. recertification of bluetooth that we need to do thanks to the bug about sharing files over bt, things just take some time for pr1.222:06
hrw-n900RST38h: xmas?22:06
lcukx200xorAxAx, theres a thread called "pronouncing maemo"22:06
lcukx200jesus himself answered and gave definitiative answer22:06
lcukx200cant get more authorative than that22:06
* RST38h obviously expects sticky Ctrl+I and Ctrl+O in the browser =)22:06
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timelessklowner, please file a nug22:06
GeneralAntillesxorAxAx, it's a made-up word, so there's really no "right" way.22:06
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timelessand explain what caused it22:07
RST38hlcuk: The Tentacled One has not voiced His opinion yet though22:07
Klownertimeless: to where shall nugs be filed?22:07
Fredrik19943days to go. :D22:07
GeneralAntillesxorAxAx, wikipedia should still have the IPA for the most common way, however.22:07
Klownerohhh, bugs.. :)22:07
timelessbefore you file22:08
lcukx200GeneralAntilles, see the link, do you forget so easily that jesuscliment (guy who nurtured maemo at the very start) answered22:08
timelessenable all bug ail22:08
lcukx200you thanked him and posted about it afterwards22:08
xorAxAxGeneralAntilles: i expect this to be set by nokia, like UI interface guidelines22:08
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timelessthe monkeys running bugzilla's db have been making a mess22:08
JaffaxorAxAx: Every Nokian (that I've heard) uses a pronounciation closest to the English "my-moe" (as in "my", meaning belonging to me; and "moe" as in the bartender in The Simpsons)22:09
* timeless prefers may-moe22:09
xorAxAxJaffa: i wonder how they came up with that22:09
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timelessrandom generator22:09
GeneralAntilleslcukx200, er, I haven't forgotten, but since it's still a made-up word there really is no proper pronunciation.22:09
hrw-n900timeless: indeed. few bugs got lost during transition22:10
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mkargar__maemo extra repo still is down?22:10
lcukx200the firtst guy to utter the word gets dibs22:10
xorAxAxok, i have to remember that it is maemo22:10
timelesshrw: are we done eating bugs?22:10
GeneralAntilleslcukx200, that'd be completely unverifiable. ;)22:10
xorAxAxmy-moe i mean22:10
hrw-n900timeless: about 20 if not more22:10
GeneralAntilleslcukx200, how many combinations of five letters do you think there are? ;)22:10
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timelesssure, but22:11
timelesshrw: are we done eating bugs?22:11
hrw-n900timeless: few days ago I reported 7792 and now we are at 778822:11
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timelessi lost one about bug db dataloss :o22:11
hrw-n900I have such one on a list to report22:12
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hrw-n900but reporting from n900 is not comfortable22:12
lcukx200GeneralAntilles, 11 881 37622:12
hrw-n900lcukx200: using 24 letters?22:13
lcukx200not in my alphabet22:13
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hrw-n900abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz is 26 even... (we do not use x v too much)22:14
lcukx200but it was done with random generator22:14
lcukx200not that it matters :D22:15
w00tint rand() { return 4; }22:15
lcukx200:D w00t22:15
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Klowneris there a big list of exciting dbus events to play with somewhere?22:20
konttorilooks like devel is missing xsltproc. I cannot install mplayer without it22:20
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timeless_mbpKlowner: bug 7337?22:22
povbot`Bug Browser won't open, no error code22:22
timeless_mbpKlowner: there's a file somewhere in the sdk w/ browser dbus commands22:23
* lcukx200 waves @ RevdKathy 22:23
Stskeepshrw-n900: got a new bug # for the calendar source bug?22:23
timeless_mbpwe have a couple of verbs22:23
* RevdKathy waves back at lcukx20022:23
Klownertimeless_mbp: I just posted a question on 7337, I'll post a full bug if that dude doesn't have browser-switchboard22:24
odin_ok this combination works for me, setup scratchbox in FREEMANTLE_X86 target, scratchbox/login, run: unset SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE, run: PATH="/scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/:$PATH", then run: ./configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=arm-none-linux-gnueabi, this means for built tools it uses "gcc" which emits X86 and for cross-compile is uses prefixed toolchain arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc22:24
odin_bash: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped22:24
timeless_mbpKlowner: thanks! :)22:24
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Klownertimeless_mbp: vurry welcome22:24
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xorAxAxodin_: why dont you use arm for the build tools?22:24
odin_xorAxAx, the built tools (as in programs created during building to help built the final executable) need to run on the local system, and the local system is i68622:25
lcukx200kathy, chinese curry sounds wrong22:25
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xorAxAxodin_: no22:25
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odin_xorAxAx, the above is how I cross compiled before (for MIPS when I worked on that) you use a prefixed-toolchain for all cross-compiling22:25
xorAxAxodin_: scratchbox uses arm emulation22:25
odin_xorAxAx, well it doesn't work and I don't really need it to work, for building stuff22:26
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GeneralAntilleskonttori, also.22:26
GeneralAntilleskonttori, have you considered dropping the blue?22:26
GeneralAntilleskonttori, switch to grayscale?22:26
konttoriin nuvo?22:26
konttoricould do22:27
GeneralAntilleskonttori, flatter, grayscale icons.22:27
GeneralAntilles(for the Dashboard, X, etc)22:27
konttorithe icons would be a lot of work22:27
konttoriif you can find a good bw icon set, I could consider htat22:28
timeless_mbpkonttori: btw, where is your theme?22:28
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timeless_mbpi want to see a theme that doesn't suck22:28
timeless_mbplcukx200: i just had chinese curry22:28
hrw-n900Stskeeps: need to rerepor it. so tomorrow22:28
timeless_mbpkonttori: eww, a deb?22:28
timeless_mbpcan't you at least run a repo? even i run a repo22:28
konttorioh, it will suck, but it sucks differently22:28
hrw-n900timeless_mbp: so do I22:29
odin_yay yes, good idea, chinese curry time22:29
konttoriI don't have the time to setup one.22:29
Stskeepshrw-n900: thanks - cc carsten.munk at when you do22:29
* hrw-n900 off. movie time22:29
hrw-n900Stskeeps: ok22:29
hrw-n900bye all22:29
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lcukx200konttori, why isnt it in extras-devel22:29
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timeless_mbpkonttori: it can't find the font you supposedly have in /opt/yourtheme22:31
konttorilcukx200: I didn't have the time to upload it there22:32
timeless_mbphrm, it definitely feels different22:32
konttoritimeless_mbp: yeah, as it's not using the font22:32
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odin_it is possible to safely install my ./configure package into an empty root tree (at some arbitrary directory) ?22:32
* lcukx200 nods22:32
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redfound a way to crash my N900 and reproduce it every time - create an ad hoc on Windows 7 and connect phone into it, launch browser on random site after the connection is up22:33
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odin_I want --prefix=/usr/local but wish to force install to an arbitrary root: $HOME/somedir/ which makes it create dir/files at $HOME/somedir/usr/local/22:34
timeless_mbpred: crash what22:34
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konttoritimeless_mbp: you need to kill hildon-desktop to get the new launcher icons to show up.22:35
konttori(fixed in pr1.2 though ;)22:35
timeless_mbpkonttori: is ... gah22:35
fralsgreat, the downside with the cinema... stuck next to a real smeller for 2hrs and 40mins22:36
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konttorired: ad hoc network is pretty unstable afaik22:37
timeless_mbpkonttori: do i need to restart image-viewer?22:38
timeless_mbpkonttori: that image viewer has a black background feels entirely out of place22:39
konttorithey have hardcoded the bg color!22:40
timeless_mbpfile a public bug22:40
konttori you surprised about that?22:40
konttoriI should.22:40
timeless_mbpi've worked for nokia for more than 1 day22:41
timeless_mbpso, no.. i'm not22:41
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timeless_mbpthe im text area sucks22:41
Gadgetoid_nc10hardcoding ftw! soft coding is too squishy22:42
konttorinew or the old?22:42
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timeless_mbpno, conversations22:46
timeless_mbpi'm using 51-122:46
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timeless_mbpthe primary text input22:46
timeless_mbpfor replying to a live im chat22:47
konttorioh. that's browser runtime, right?22:47
wazdkonttori: any chance to see Carbide.UI for maemo? :)22:48
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konttorino chance22:48
wazdkonttori: heh :)22:48
timeless_mbpkonttori: no22:49
timeless_mbpthe text input is hildon22:49
timeless_mbpisn't it?22:49
wazdkonttori: I thought Nokia actually uses it for maemo theming :)22:49
konttoriI always thought it was runtime, as it's also having those nice smileys and such22:49
* timeless_mbp can't remember22:49
konttoribut I could be wrong22:49
timeless_mbpi should go check22:50
timeless_mbpit might be22:50
timeless_mbpif it's browser, then the right thing to do is to swap in css files for the app22:50
timeless_mbpthat's definitely doable22:50
timeless_mbpbtw, which stupid TV solution do you have?22:50
timeless_mbpi'm using Welho in HEL proper22:50
timeless_mbpand my video signal is falling apart22:50
timeless_mbpit's depressing22:50
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konttorisame for me. the welho internet traffic is killing tv reception22:52
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timeless_mbpoh cute22:53
timeless_mbpis there a way to complain to them?22:53
timeless_mbpbecause i'm not paying for crappy boxes22:54
timeless_mbpand i am paying for TV22:54
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Caesiumis there no way to create new contact groups on the N900 or am I missing it?22:55
CaesiumI've only got SIM Card Contacts and no visible way to make newones22:55
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Jef91How to I get rid of .gz off the end of a file? Tar didn't work >.<22:55
timeless_mbpCaesium: no groups exist :)22:56
timeless_mbpyou could try writing a plugin to provide groups22:56
timeless_mbpbut it wouldn't work for much22:56
timeless_mbpyou couldn't send an sms to a group22:56
Jef91thanks Caesium22:56
timeless_mbpor an email to a group22:56
CaesiumI liked that on my E9022:56
Caesiumsms to group was dead handy at times22:57
timeless_mbpCaesium: or any older phone22:57
SpeedEviltimeless: why not?22:57
SpeedEviltimeless: group SMS is quite possible as is group email22:57
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: unimplemented/unspeced/unrequired feature22:57
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: in maemo5?22:57
SpeedEviloh - fair enough22:57
timeless_mbpi'm not talking about 'in the world' or 'in software'22:57
SpeedEvilI though t you were arguing it was fundsamentally uimpossible - not ...22:57
timeless_mbpfundamentally with the software on the device, yes! :)22:58
wazdmaybe someone can check "conversations" source code to see where it grabs theme colors?22:58
* timeless_mbp visits
timeless_mbpwazd: it uses browser css files22:58
timeless_mbpbut it has its own profile22:58
timeless_mbpso someone could drop in a userChrome.css or userContent.css into the user's profile directory22:58
Proteousyep att data still sucks on the n90022:59
timeless_mbpiirc "reflect" tries to mess around w/ conversations22:59
timeless_mbpProteous: eh/context?22:59
wazdtimeless_mbp: can it be embeded into theme file? :)22:59
Proteousthought it might have just beenmy n9722:59
timeless_mbpwazd: *shrug*, as  i said, reflect tries22:59
timeless_mbpi have no idea how themes work22:59
konttoritimeless: we just discussed this week about making group sms more obvious22:59
Proteousbut I getthe same increadable lag on the n90023:00
timeless_mbpkonttori: are you saying it isn't impossible?23:00
lcukx200:S should theme be mucking with css for specific apps, what happens when more apps start to use the browser engine23:00
timeless_mbpif themes can include arranging one symlink23:00
konttoribasic idea is that on the write sms to single person view, the menu would include option to add multiple recipients23:00
timeless_mbpthen it'd be fairly doable23:00
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timeless_mbplcukx200: themes make specific ui for each gtk app anyway23:00
timeless_mbpthis is no different23:00
Proteousworks fine for 10 econds then freezes for 30 wash rinse repeate23:00
konttoriso, it's definitely possible to make it more obvious how to create group sms:s23:00
timeless_mbpkonttori: err23:01
timeless_mbpi know i can send an sms to multiple people23:01
timeless_mbpbut that's distinct from having a contact group23:01
timeless_mbpand saying "send sms to group"23:01
* timeless_mbp grumbles23:01
timeless_mbpWelho is open 6 days a week23:01
timeless_mbpnot including Sunday23:01
konttoriah, you mean, you want to be able to create groups.23:01
timeless_mbpwhat kind of crappy country do you have23:01
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: I was outbid!23:01
timeless_mbpkonttori: that is what Caesium asked for, yes23:01
timeless_mbpkonttori: and traveling around Europe, i met one class of people who use that feature heavily23:02
wazdkonttori: why not just have "send to" button with the check menu under for groups/users selection?23:02
konttoriah. well, yeah, the code is there so, we could easily add the group support23:02
Proteousclicking on links in the teminal to open them inthe browser == win though23:02
wazdkonttori: I don't know how it works now though :)23:02
timeless_mbpkonttori: can we do it for 1.2? :)23:03
wazdand "add number" field ofcourse23:03
timeless_mbpkonttori: preferably for each of IM/SMS/Mail23:03
SpeedEvilcan skype do conference calls?23:04
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: how big is a conference?23:04
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timeless_mbpskype itself definitely supports it23:05
timeless_mbpi think based on the discussion above that our ui couldn't23:05
meceI've done it several times. but I don'ät see any way on N900 to initiate conference call23:05
timeless_mbpi'm not sure how skype actually manages conferences23:05
meceI'll try it right now... wait up.23:05
wazdtimeless_mbp: one host, 7 clients23:06
timeless_mbpmy understanding is that the n900 doesn't really have the resources to manage more than two connections23:06
timeless_mbpwazd: and you want your n900 to host the 7 clients? :)23:06
konttoritimeless_mbp: you mean can we add group support for 1.2? I can ask Hilkka if she's willing to have it and Jörgen if he and his guys can deliver23:06
konttoriI think the UI issues might be the blockers23:06
* Caesium cheers for konttori :)23:06
wazdtimeless_mbp: well, Marketing guys told that it's uber-duper-powerful and stuff  :D23:06
timeless_mbpkonttori: also for mail23:06
konttoriso, I don't think it can make it in time for 1.223:06
timeless_mbpi'll take (whatever that number is)23:07
meceok nobody want's to skype conference with me :)23:07
timeless_mbpwe already support showing groups23:07
Caesiumbeing able to create a new group, and put a contact in a group, would be nice for starters.23:07
lcukx200timeless, the n900 supports being part of a torrent23:07
Caesiumindeed you can view groups already23:07
wazdkonttori: if you've understood what timeless told bout conversations bug, can you fix this? :)23:07
lcukx200theres >25 connections23:07
timeless_mbpwazd: fix what?23:08
timeless_mbpwhich conversations "bug"?23:08
konttoriwazd: you mean add support for groups?23:08
wazdtimeless_mbp: that23:08
konttoriit's not easy fix, as it needs groups management23:08
mecethat's not a bug, it's a feature to be added afaik.23:08
wazdkonttori: no, theming :)23:08
timeless_mbpthat depends on what a theme can do when it's activated23:09
timeless_mbpcan it arbitrarily map around files?23:09
timeless_mbpi understand he's able to replace non theme icon files23:09
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timeless_mbpwhich means he seems to have a fair bit of power23:09
konttorioh, timeless_mbp so, can browser take those files from theme directory?23:09
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timeless_mbpkonttori: is there a 'symlink' for the 'active' theme?23:10
timeless_mbpi don't understand how things understand 'theme'23:10
konttoriHmm... I'll have to check. A sec...23:10
timeless_mbpat least, the theme switcher i wrote for mer seemed to just write a stupid gtkrc file23:10
wazdtimeless_mbp: I wonder why conversations are themed that stupid way23:10
timeless_mbpwazd: it isn't stupid23:10
timeless_mbpso if you speak further23:11
lcukx200wazd different application framework23:11
Chikuhey about rdesktop how can you do right mouse click?23:11
timeless_mbpi'm leaving.23:11
lcukx200theme you are thinking is a gtk theme23:11
timeless_mbpis that clear? -- the answer better be "crystal"23:11
lcukx200the browser ui apps arent part of that23:11
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woglindecioa timeless23:11
timeless_mbpwoglinde: oh, i'll wait for an answer23:11
timeless_mbpit'd be rude for me to leave first23:11
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* timeless_mbp returns to cursing Welho23:11
konttoriI think selected theme is written to a gconf key, but I might be mistaken23:12
* timeless_mbp wants a refund23:12
konttoriI'll have to ask the devs tomorrow.23:12
timeless_mbpkonttori: so, you'd probably need a daemon which listens to that key and rewrites a symlink23:12
timeless_mbpit'd be doable23:12
wazdlcukx200: it can't be coded to grab proper files from the theme?23:12
wazdlcukx200: I don't beleive it :)23:12
lcukx200wazd, the browser css stuff doesnt work that way23:12
Chikuis it possible to simulate right mouse click?23:13
lcukx200just like any website doesnt23:13
timeless_mbpwazd: the "theme" as you see it is an imaginary vacuous concept23:13
timeless_mbpthe browser works with these strange things called "files"23:13
timeless_mbpand files live in these other strange things called "paths"23:13
lcukx200wazd, imagine how much work it would be to get your website to adapt to end users theme23:13
moo-_-timeless_mbp: problems with welho?23:13
* moo-_- = no problems23:13
konttoritimeless_mbp: any chance of browser using the same panning acceleration as gtk?23:13
woglindehi moo23:13
timeless_mbpmoo-_-: i'm getting incredibly blocking content23:13
timeless_mbpkonttori: my initial reaction is "Forget about it"23:13
moo-_-timeless_mbp: they block something?23:13
meceChiku, what version?23:14
konttori(swipe while panning is ongoing, will accumulate to the existing panning speed)23:14
crashanddielcukx200: with a plug-in for the browser that would send an http-header including the theme, not so much23:14
timeless_mbpmoo-_-: are you familiar w/ mpeg?23:14
lcukx200browser apps work in systems where gtk simply does not exist, so making it require a gtk theme is...23:14
Chikumaemo 523:14
konttoritimeless_mbp: why (out of curiosity)23:14
wazdlcukx200: if website is located on the same server with UI and UI is built up with images - piece a cake23:14
lcukx200crashanddie, hyperthetical23:14
moo-_-timeless_mbp: part of my work description...23:14
timeless_mbpmoo-_-: so, the video for cable is mpeg (roughly)23:14
wazdlcukx200: Even I can do that :D23:14
moo-_-timeless_mbp: they block streaming protocols?23:14
lcukx200same wazd23:14
timeless_mbpand what i'm getting are very large blocks23:14
meceChiku, hmm no ideal. says "menu key" Don't even know what that is :) Never had an N80023:14
lcukx200go on then23:14
timeless_mbpwhich are never coallescing into a clear picture23:14
moo-_-timeless_mbp: aah... you are talking about TV, not internet23:14
lcukx200make your site adapt to the theme on the compputer23:15
timeless_mbpmoo-_-: uh huh23:15
crashanddielcukx200: we're talking about having a website adapt to work according to a maemo theme?23:15
timeless_mbpmaybe this is a strange concept?23:15
lcukx200see just what you are up against23:15
timeless_mbpis watching proper TV forbidden in this stupid country?23:15
moo-_-timeless_mbp: I am having Welho internet connection only23:15
crashanddietimeless: if you're in the US, yes23:15
Chikuif you use rdp or vnc or lxde23:15
mecetimeless_mbp, my tv works just fine.23:15
Chikuandf you want right mouse click23:15
wazdlcukx200: I'm not talking even about images23:15
timeless_mbpmece: which tv provider are you using?23:15
lcukx200no crashanddie we are talking about having a custom app written using the web engine, and css styling etc to adapt to the gtk theme23:15
meceturku cable23:16
crashanddieChiku: macs have right mouse click ;)23:16
timeless_mbpmoo-_-: my employer pays for Elisa23:16
timeless_mbpwhich seems to be more reliable atm23:16
crashanddielcukx200: oh, ok, hard23:16
timeless_mbpso i pay for Welho, but only for tv23:16
timeless_mbpand i'm getting crap23:16
meceToni Halme is dead?23:16
timeless_mbpi'd complain right now23:16
moo-_-timeless_mbp: all finnish digital television broadcasts are quite underrated what comes to bitstream, I think.23:16
wazdlcukx200: it's a matter of plugging in theme colors.css into the code23:16
Chikuany bind to have right mouse click? like crtl+click23:16
timeless_mbpbut their service hours don't include sundays23:16
timeless_mbpor evenings23:16
moo-_-timeless_mbp: I have seen block artifacts everywhere... not just on cable23:16
lcukx200wazd, into what code?23:16
crashanddieChiku: which platform>23:16
timeless_mbpmoo-_-: this is *much* worse than it used to be23:16
wazdlcukx200: conversations obviously23:16
timeless_mbpjust in the last couple of weeks23:16
mececrashanddie, he said maemo 523:16
lcukx200no wazd, conversations isnt code23:16
crashanddieChiku: long click?23:16
lcukx200its css23:17
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crashanddieChiku: tap and hold23:17
lcukx200well the bit you are interested in23:17
RevdKathy'night all23:17
wazdlcukx200: framework, whatever23:17
lcukx200how to extract related bit of theme23:17
woglindenite kathy23:17
mececrashanddie, that's sweet!23:17
Chikuok I try again23:17
lcukx200and put it in related bits of css23:17
timeless_mbpwazd: so, gtk theme color mapping should be available23:17
timeless_mbpif someone wants to try to use that23:17
lcukx200its a translation device you want23:17
wazdlcukx200: it should look like all other OS or what's the point of theming then23:17
timeless_mbpbut typically themers want a lot more control than that23:17
meceChiku, is rdesktop stable?23:17
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lcukx200wazd, you forget the point23:17
timeless_mbpthey want to control shapes, borders, thicknesses,23:17
ChikuI use rdesktop-cli23:17
crashanddiewazd & lcukx200: glade on steroids?23:17
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lcukx200gtk apps accept gtk themes23:18
timeless_mbpthey want to actually write *css*23:18
lcukx200other frameworks apps dont23:18
Chikugui rdesktop failed because server map port23:18
* timeless_mbp sighs23:18
Chikuand server:port on rdesktop gui not work23:18
* timeless_mbp should just give up on tv23:18
wazdtimeless_mbp: the only thing I want is working theme :)23:18
timeless_mbpwazd: i'd settle for a working build23:18
Chikubut rdesktop-cli server:port  works fine23:18
* timeless_mbp has burned the last couple23:18
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, good plan. It rots your brain, anyway.23:18
mecetimeless_mbp, nothing good is on anyway :)23:18
wazdtimeless_mbp: because without that all my work is absolutely useless23:19
timeless_mbpmece: i'm trying to watch Terminator23:19
meceis it on now?23:19
timeless_mbpmece: yes23:19
mecetimeless_mbp, awesome!23:19
timeless_mbpon Sub23:19
lcukx200wazd your theme is in use with gtk stuff isnt it?23:19
timeless_mbpif you get a better picture, can you save it for me?23:19
lcukx200thats what you wrote the them for23:19
wazdlcukx200: people cant use sms with my theme -> it's useless23:20
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* GeneralAntilles hadn't realized was sponsoring racing.
lcukx200why not?  is it unreadable?23:20
mecetimeless_mbp, the hd on my dvr is busted. sorry.23:20
lcukx200does conversations accept some of it?23:20
lcukx200or does conversations look exactly the same as it did before23:20
lcukx200oh, that is fucked23:21
timeless_mbpmece: ...23:21
wazdlcukx200: orly :)23:21
lcukx200now i see bit of point23:21
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Chikucrashanddie, no tap and hold it's not right click23:21
lcukx200some of the base window attribs are being switched, but the css stuff isnt23:21
* lcukx200 ponders23:21
timeless_mbplcukx200: this is because some of the colors are written to use gtk bits23:21
timeless_mbpand some aren't23:21
Chikuit's more like left click and hold23:21
timeless_mbpand whichever colors they picked are obviously wrong23:21
wazdlcukx200: theme has colors.css23:21
timeless_mbpwhich is typical23:21
Chikufor drag and drop23:21
wazdlcukx200: there are options for conversations23:22
timeless_mbpguessing how colors works is hard23:22
wazdlcukx200: like bubble backgrounds and stuff23:22
lcukx200i can see23:22
wazdlcukx200: but there are no options for bubble font or main background23:22
lcukx200the photo says it all23:22
lcukx200gwell apart from the blacked out bits23:22
timeless_mbplcukx200: it's like the fact that image viewer's background color is hard coded :)23:22
lcukx200i gather those arent themed23:22
timeless_mbpand that's a gtk app :)23:22
wazdlcukx200: that's why I've asked to check the source code to see what names conversations use to render background23:23
wazdto add it to colors.css23:23
lcukx200heh timeles, amount of times that happens in windows too23:23
mecesummer glau summer glau :) mmmm23:23
timeless_mbplcukx200: i haven't seen this much of a problem w/ windows in well over a decade23:23
timeless_mbpmece: are you getting a better picture?23:23
timeless_mbpi can ee the top of someone's head23:23
timeless_mbpbut whose head keeps changing23:23
SpeedEvilAnyone happen to know how to get raw inmages from th rear camera?23:24
SpeedEvilraw as in non-jpeg'd23:24
lcukx200see mirror code23:24
lcukx200create / adjust pipeline23:24
* lcukx200 mmms @ conversations mashup23:24
mecetimeless_mbp, no. I google image'd her :)
meceI'm not at the tv23:24
SpeedEvillcukx200: hmm. I suppose htey are all connected to one input port, so the code wuld be similar. That works for stills too?23:25
lcukx200SpeedEvil, gstreamer pipeline can be examined and you can make a sink yourself which gives you the bits23:26
SpeedEvilSounds like >>5 min job then. Many thanks.23:26
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woglindehi speedevil23:26
SpeedEvilIdle curiosity - I was wondering about doing some raw benchmarking on the cam sensor.23:26
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implicithello, nokiamessaging had disappeared from the email selections in my email account so i tried to reinstall on apt-get by doing "apt-get remove nokiamessaging"23:27
implicitand then "apt-get install nokiamessaging"23:27
timeless_mbpimplicit: um23:27
timeless_mbpi hope you realize just how stupid that was :)23:27
timeless_mbpapt-get is not an end user solution23:28
impliciti do23:28
implicitand it's not in the repositories that I have23:28
timeless_mbpand the nokia closed bits are not generally available in repositories23:28
timeless_mbpso it's time to backup23:28
redkonttori_nokia: you mean ad hoc is quite unstable on N900 right?23:28
timeless_mbpand grab the flashable image23:28
timeless_mbpand start again23:28
implicitany guide to backing up what I have on there before i reflash?23:28
timeless_mbpred: konttori dropped off, i'm not sure the other is a useful ghost23:28
woglindered it has performance problems23:28
woglindebut the same as on n81023:29
timeless_mbpimplicit: 1. use the backup to save everything normal23:29
timeless_mbp2. if you are afraid of losing other stuff, use rsync to store the rest23:29
redwell I'm using it temporarily for couple more days to get DSL speed until my wifi works23:29
woglindered when I copy a 80mb file to n900 it stalls after 2 mb23:29
timeless_mbp3. only reflash the rootfs, not the emmc23:29
woglindebut manged mode works nice23:29
implicitwhat is the emmc?23:29
redwoglinde: best I got was 60MB downloaded podcasts before phone rebooted again23:30
SpeedEvilimplicit: the built in 32G23:30
timeless_mbpimplicit: /home and /home/user/MyDocs are the eMMC23:30
timeless_mbpeverything else is basically rootfs23:30
redeither the connection doesn't move at all, or the phone resets right on trying to connect, or it works a moment :p23:30
lcukx200red, red / woglinde i use adhoc often, i have only ever had problems in wifi saturated areas (for some reason, was never able to reproduce)23:30
timeless_mbp(/opt is a symlink into /home, so it's going to be a mess if you've installed stuff there)23:30
lcukx200my system happily lets me copy do what i need on adhoc23:30
implicitthanks for the help23:30
timeless_mbpimplicit: i hope you learned your lesson :(23:31
redlcukx200: using connection sharing via ad hoc23:31
lcukx200red how bad is the crash23:31
implicitis there a repo for: "Repository:23:31
implicitMaemo 5 device root filesystem"23:31
timeless_mbpred: have you installed crash-reporter?23:31
redbad, one time so far had to remove battery23:31
timeless_mbpimplicit: no.23:31
implicitwould make things a lot easier if we could just pull those on :-\23:31
lcukx200is it working now?23:31
timeless_mbpimplicit: it'd also mean competitors could download the packages onto their own devices23:31
timeless_mbpnokia has chosen not to offer that23:32
redno, I won't be trying again since I don't really fancy havnig my phone lock up so bad I need to take the battery out while its running :p23:32
timeless_mbpi hope you can understand why23:32
lcukx200red ok, most people try again if it crashes23:32
timeless_mbpyou aren't supposed to use the xterminal unless you understand what you're doing23:32
woglindered hm I didnt have reboot in ad-hoc mode23:32
redI did 5 attempts alltogether23:32
timeless_mbpthe official way to manage applications is using the graphical application manager23:32
redtwo times no connectivity, two regular reboots, 1 lock up23:32
timeless_mbpwhich should not let you screw up the way you did23:32
lcukx200red, 5 attempts? it crashed 5 times?23:32
redand my phone has never rebooted before23:32
timeless_mbp(well, you could enable a third party repository, but it gives you a fairly stern warning when you do that)23:32
redand as it would be for two days only, so I won't bother =)23:33
implicitdo you know if there is a third-party repo for that?23:33
impliciti might as well try it before reflashing23:33
timeless_mbpimplicit: that would be asking for a lawsuit23:33
timeless_mbpjust like if e.g. nokia were stupid enough to host nintendo games23:33
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timeless_mbppresumably nokia isn't stupid enough to do that23:33
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timeless_mbpand presumably no one else is stupid enough to host a copy of nokia's (c)'d bits23:34
* timeless_mbp sometimes hates techies23:34
Chikuabout braek, how you close it?23:34
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timeless_mbp"everything's a bit, and the bits don't care"23:34
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lcukx200wazd, timeless has proper theme bug been filed23:35
lcukx200about issues raised ^23:36
timeless_mbplcukx200: saying what?23:36
timeless_mbptechnically conversations is themeable23:36
lcukx200conversations exhibits mismatches with gtk theming23:36
lcukx200yeah but its mechanism is flawed23:36
timeless_mbpi certainly haven't filed one23:36
timeless_mbpthe thing is23:36
lcukx200wazd, you are encountering issue23:36
timeless_mbpi have no idea what the theme switcher is capable of doing23:36
timeless_mbpif it's capable of dropping in some extra symlinks23:37
lcukx200nor i23:37
timeless_mbpthen it's a bug in the theme for not using them23:37
timeless_mbpand in the theme maker for not exposing them23:37
timeless_mbpotoh, if the theme switcher isn't capable of doing that23:37
lcukx200i think this isnt theme engine23:37
lcukx200this is conversations23:37
timeless_mbpthen imo it's a bug in the theme switcher23:37
timeless_mbplcukx200: let's try again23:37
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timeless_mbpas a gtk themer, i have essentially *complete* per gtk app control over my gtk victims23:37
timeless_mbpnot just "gtk color scheme"23:37
timeless_mbpbut "per gtk app color overrides"23:37
timeless_mbpis that clear?23:38
timeless_mbpw/ gecko, you have that same power23:38
timeless_mbpnow, if the theme switcher doesn't allow you to exercise that23:38
timeless_mbpthen it's at least a bug in the theme switcher23:38
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Chikuhaha, I got a bug, it's now at protrait mode for everything and can't rotate it back to horizontal mode23:38
timeless_mbpnow, arguably, there's probably a bug in the default color set23:38
lcukx200that doesnt appear to be the bug tho, its the color mapping23:38
timeless_mbpChiku: sadly, you don't get a prize for discovering that23:39
timeless_mbplcukx200: well, the thing is23:39
MaemohammadAGchiku i made a post about it23:39
Chikuoh just need to wait to sleep mode and it's back to normal mode23:39
MaemohammadAGabout a month ago23:39
timeless_mbpas a themer, i'd much prefer that over just color mappings23:39
meceholy shit! starcraft!23:39
timeless_mbpas for color mappings23:39
MaemohammadAGit's on nokiausers23:39
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timeless_mbpwazd or someone should just fix the css file and *then* post a bug23:39
timeless_mbponce they get a css file that does what they think is the right thing (tm)23:39
timeless_mbpno one at nokia is going to be able to figure out what the right thing is23:40
lcukx200well, if wazd doesnt touch the conversations css file23:40
wazd.MessagingViewBackgroundColor {23:40
wazdbackground-color: #383838;23:40
lcukx200shouldnt it look exactly the same as before23:40
timeless_mbp(except maybe konttori or the other guy who wrote a theme)23:40
timeless_mbplcukx200: no23:40
MaemohammadAGChiku, it can be reproduced easily too23:40
timeless_mbpbecause it uses some gtk theme colors :)23:40
Chikuyes I just do it again23:40
timeless_mbpbut it's the standard CSS/HTML error23:40
MaemohammadAGyou only need braek and a portrait app23:40
timeless_mbpyou can't mix 'some default colors' and 'some color overrides'23:40
timeless_mbpyou either have to 'replace everything' or 'inherit everything'23:41
MaemohammadAGbraek crashes part of the system and makes it get stuck in portrait23:41
* lcukx200 nods23:41
wazdthe error is that there is no value for background in colors.css23:41
Chikuso I should kill braek app23:41
timeless_mbpand the guys who did the default theme didn't test this23:41
MaemohammadAGthen you can use killall braek23:41
lcukx200and i was under the impression css was a replace everything23:41
MaemohammadAGyeah, it stays in portrait unless you open and close phone23:41
timeless_mbplcukx200: replace everything is hard23:41
timeless_mbpand clearly they didn't :)23:41
lcukx200but obviously not23:41
timeless_mbpbut again23:41
timeless_mbpas a themer, i'd rather have the ability to replace everything23:41
wazdcan somebody just check what I asked? :)23:41
timeless_mbpmuch more useful than "pray nokia will get it right"23:42
lcukx200this issue is going to become MUCH more widespread with qt and the css dui stuff23:42
lcukx200so it needs looking at properly23:42
lcukx200so it needs a real bug for someone to investigate surely23:43
timeless_mbpinvestigating for maemo5 will not at all help maemo623:43
timeless_mbproughly at this point, maemo5=konttori23:43
timeless_mbpand konttori!=maemo623:43
timeless_mbpif that isn't clear... let me know23:44
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timeless_mbpthe beginnings of maemo6 are in or something23:44
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timeless_mbpyou're free to grab them and try to put them together23:44
timeless_mbppersonally, i am not going to waste my time doing that23:44
MaemohammadAGthe n900 is upgradable to maemo6 right?23:44
* Caesium was about to ask something similar23:45
Caesiumbut Iguess it's so far away it's not to be worried about yet :)23:45
timeless_mbpreally, as long as the theme switcher allows themes to replace file paths from /usr/share/themes/.active/ => /usr/share/themes/my_theme23:45
timeless_mbpthen this isn't really a problem23:45
MaemohammadAGsome say it's arriving in may23:45
JaffaMaemohammadAG: It's neither been confirmed nor denied23:45
MaemohammadAGor in summer23:45
MaemohammadAGJaffa, ty23:45
JaffaCaesium: Alpha/beta SDKs are supposed to be appearing shortly (according to the timescales announced at the summit)23:45
timeless_mbpMaemohammadAG: i think it's fairly safe to assume maemo6 will not appear tomorrow23:45
woglindeI personal dont believe maemo6 will com in the summer23:45
MaemohammadAGi read it somewhere but i can't find it again23:46
JaffaThat would *imply* a release in 2H10.23:46
JaffaBut, timescales slip. Especially Nokia timescales ;-)23:46
MaemohammadAGtimeless_mbp, you sure? :p23:46
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MaemohammadAGthought so. don't spread rumors around timeless_mbp23:46
mikhasJaffa, actually "10" could be any year in the future with a summer phase =)23:46
timeless_mbpMaemohammadAG: personally, i'd just look at nokia's record23:46
MaemohammadAGit might be released at midnight23:46
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timeless_mbpwell, midnight is 13mins away23:47
MaemohammadAGtimeless_mbp, jk mate :)23:47
timeless_mbpgenerally nokia has released one major os version a year23:47
* VDVsx bets maemo6 will not appear tomorrow :D23:47
timeless_mbptypically near the end of the year23:47
* VDVsx wins the bet ;)23:47
timeless_mbpos2005, os2006, os2007, os2008, os200923:47
woglindeVDVsx *g*23:47
Jaffatypically before going on holiday23:47
timeless_mbpJaffa: yeah, i wonder why?23:47
timeless_mbpdo they want christmas sales?23:48
timeless_mbpcould they actually be trying to run a business there?23:48
MaemohammadAGos2009.01 :p23:48
timeless_mbptrying to make money....23:48
timeless_mbpit's absurd23:48
mikhaswho killed kenny?23:48
timeless_mbpa travesty!23:48
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timeless_mbpmikhas: Welho!23:48
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GeneralAntillesCapacitive makes pandas sad.23:50
lcukx200thats captivity you pratt23:50
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, they can use capacitive ?23:50
timeless_mbpwazd: so, i'm confused23:50
timeless_mbpw/ konttori's theme23:50
timeless_mbpin conversations23:51
timeless_mbpi have a solid white background23:51
JaffaVDVsx: Not got the dexterity for styli, so I'd posit capacitive makes pandas happy.23:51
lcukx200Jaffa, they use bamboo shoots23:51
VDVsxtrue, they have fingers I guess :p23:51
timeless_mbpoh cute23:52
timeless_mbpi have good colors for GoogleTalk23:52
timeless_mbpand bad colors for SMS23:52
JaffaAnyway, everyone knows a panda eats, shoots and leaves.23:52
MaemohammadAG high priority?23:52
povbot`Bug 7771: Unable to play video through xbox upnp server23:52
timeless_mbpthat's awesome23:52
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timeless_mbpMaemohammadAG: 'no'23:52
timeless_mbpupnp is not particularly critical23:52
* VDVsx -> pandas classic :
MaemohammadAGwas just wondering, it didn't sound as a high priority 'bug'23:53
MaemohammadAGit might be a local problem after all23:53
timeless_mbpMaemohammadAG: reporters can set those fields23:53
timeless_mbpit doesn't mean people will actually believe them23:53
GeneralAntillesMaemohammadAG, submitter-triage bugged are rarely well prioritized.23:53
timeless_mbpbugs will get more realistic priorities when someone else touches them23:53
timeless_mbplists UPnP for video as the last bullet of the last column23:54
timeless_mbphardly a headline23:54
timeless_mbpin 'photography', it falls under 'other'23:54
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timeless_mbpwhich is pretty impressive23:54
* timeless_mbp has no idea what the heck that is btw23:54
wazdtimeless_mbp: we're working on that with Stskeeps right now23:54
timeless_mbpwazd: which?23:54
wazdtimeless_mbp: I still think it's just a missing style in colors.css23:55
timeless_mbpwazd: there's something odd23:55
JaffaWhat happened to the simplified field-set for bug creation? Only certain groups being able to set priority/severity would make bugzilla a) more accessible; b) more accurate23:55
timeless_mbpbecause GoogleTalk works23:55
Stskeepswazd: i'm not sure about that theory since they look fairly similar23:55
timeless_mbpand SMS doesn't23:55
timeless_mbpso it should be fairly simple23:55
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timeless_mbpwazd: do you have a device?23:56
timeless_mbpthe thing to do is to find the html file which is used for SMS23:56
timeless_mbpand compare it to the one for GoogleTalk23:57
wazdtimeless_mbp: no23:57
GeneralAntillesJaffa, waiting on 3.4, I think.23:57
GeneralAntillesSpeaking of which, some mockups would probably be nice.23:57
Chikuabout canola, when you click on choose theme, canola crashes23:59

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