| pH5 | right. too bad omap3 only has the composite output :) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| thorbjorn | If I submit a failed build another time, do I need to increase the version number? I can still see the old failed entry in the builder directory even now that I uploaded it again after fixing it. | 00:00 |
| pH5 | thorbjorn: if the build failed, you can upload again without changing the number. | 00:00 |
| woglinde | thorbjorn no | 00:00 |
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| woglinde | hi ph5 btw. | 00:01 |
| thorbjorn | Alright, thanks. I'll just see what'll happen. :) | 00:01 |
| pH5 | woglinde: :) | 00:01 |
| ShadowJK | hm, felipec on his blog says the publicly available codecs can't do 720p | 00:01 |
| woglinde | ShadowJK jepp | 00:01 |
| ShadowJK | I'm guessing this is probably because the actual video decode acceleration components are closed | 00:01 |
| woglinde | jupp | 00:01 |
| ShadowJK | And the publicly available ones only use DSP | 00:02 |
| woglinde | see the theora support blog | 00:02 |
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| woglinde | ShadowJK and the joke is there two different subcidies at ti making the dsp stuff | 00:03 |
| woglinde | or providing it to customers | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | sounds normal | 00:03 |
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| woglinde | shadowjk -> http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/ | 00:03 |
| ShadowJK | Like the HDAPS stuff where one section of IBM made the hw and a second made drivers, and a third reverse engineered both to give give documentation for opensource people | 00:03 |
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| * mtd would like to increase the root partition size...anyone know a good apt source for gparted? | 00:06 | |
| mtd | (err, of my n900) | 00:06 |
| woglinde | mtd no | 00:06 |
| woglinde | mtd for you problem the solution is optify | 00:06 |
| * mtd googles for optify | 00:06 | |
| SpeedEvil | mtd: / is on a 256M device | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | mtd: ironically, root partition is in MTD, that is NAND | 00:07 |
| woglinde | maemo optify | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | mtd: you can't easily replace this. | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | which is 256mb size | 00:07 |
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| mtd | SpeedEvil, Stskeeps: ah. ugh. | 00:11 |
| * mtd is finding the root device a bit small for the bloat of pkgs I want to install. | 00:12 | |
| Stskeeps | mtd: it is possible to clone to SD at cost of performance | 00:12 |
| * mtd has 22M free | 00:12 | |
| mtd | Stskeeps: ah | 00:12 |
| Flandry | there are some pretty bloated libraries that could be optified | 00:13 |
| thorbjorn | Is private messaging disabled on talk.maemo.org? I get a "thorbjorn, you do not have permission to access this page." when clicking to Private Messages. | 00:13 |
| Stskeeps | thorbjorn: if you have too low posts or something | 00:13 |
| thorbjorn | Hrm, so I need to spam a bit... | 00:13 |
| woglinde | mtd as I said the problem is know | 00:14 |
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| type-t | # i got something for the bsddb185 thing.. | 00:14 |
| woglinde | the solution for now is maemo optify | 00:14 |
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| mtd | woglinde: sure, thanks. | 00:15 |
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| type-t | # anyway /usr/lib/python2.4/test/test_bsddb185.pyo .py .pyc thing.. :P | 00:20 |
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| jhp | Hi everyone. I have a N900 and everything is very nice, except for one thing. The email clients, when used in imap mode, does not cache the headers of your mailboxes which results in long wait times when going to you inbox, upto situations where the clients drains your phone so quickly that it can't be charged anymore. | 00:21 |
| jhp | I'm wandering if there is some mail / imap client that can be installed that is working and that intergrates nicely with the address book. | 00:22 |
| PaulFertser | jhp: it's already discussed that pre-installed e-mail and calendar apps are unusable, feel free to search/open bugs.maemo.org... | 00:22 |
| wazd_ | My shot on Mer boot video: http://blip.tv/file/3066249 | 00:23 |
| PaulFertser | jhp: i'm sorry but i have no idea what api the address book uses, you gotta wait for somebody else to anwer. | 00:23 |
| mtd | PaulFertser: what alternates are recommended? | 00:23 |
| PaulFertser | mtd: well, i'd use mutt on any device :) | 00:23 |
| mtd | jhp: I was wondering about running offlineimap + local dovecot and pointing the mail client to that | 00:23 |
| mtd | PaulFertser: mutt FTW | 00:23 |
| ShadowJK | I use claws-mail on N810... I don't think it's that "ready" yet for N900 though... I haven't tried it there. | 00:23 |
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| mtd | ...but dovecot reminds me that I can't find it in the maemo repos. | 00:24 |
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| jhp | mtd: What do you mean by running "offlineimap + local dovecot " | 00:25 |
| xorAxAx | claws-mail is in -devel | 00:25 |
| mtd | is there some apt source that I can safely add that has like, the normal software one might expect from a debian install (of course I'd want to configure it in such a way that any maemo-source-provided package would always take precedence) | 00:25 |
| PaulFertser | mtd: what are advantages of using an additional local imap server comparing to just offline-imap? | 00:25 |
| jhp | Do you really mean to install a local dovecot server on your n900 and get your mail there ? | 00:26 |
| mtd | jhp: run offlineimap to talk to the real IMAP server and sync the mail to a local maildir | 00:26 |
| range | Ummm. | 00:26 |
| mtd | jhp: and then point the n900 client to that local store | 00:26 |
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| mtd | PaulFertser: hmm, havne't thought it through. | 00:26 |
| range | I have no problem with long wait times on the n900 when running against dovecot. | 00:27 |
| papo | hm | 00:27 |
| papo | I don't understand how HAL works | 00:27 |
| mtd | PaulFertser: I can't remember whether offline imap will store the mail locally in a format usable by an IMAP _client_. | 00:27 |
| PaulFertser | papo: do not bother, it's deprecated already anyway ;) | 00:27 |
| greenfly | wait I see people are mentioning mutt, did someone port mutt? | 00:27 |
| xorAxAx | offlineimap does maildir | 00:28 |
| PaulFertser | mtd: is there any MUA that can't read traditional mailboxes or maildir? | 00:28 |
| mtd | xorAxAx: indeed | 00:28 |
| mtd | PaulFertser: does the n900 pre-installed one? | 00:28 |
| mtd | (...do so?) | 00:28 |
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| mtd | greenfly: would it need to be ported? | 00:28 |
| greenfly | I think having offlineimap on the n900 run all the time would really drain the battery | 00:28 |
| papo | PaulFertser: well I'm not sure. I've been profiling the charging process of the battery but something is seriously wrong | 00:28 |
| mtd | greenfly: more than checking the IMAP server every 5 minutes? | 00:29 |
| PaulFertser | mtd: i mean a sane MUA, guess the pre-installed one can't be sane by definition :) | 00:29 |
| papo | PaulFertser: so I'm wondering where the number comes from which is reported by lshal | 00:29 |
| greenfly | mtd: not necessarily, so far I've been running mutt in my screen session on a remote machine (just like irssi) | 00:29 |
| mtd | greenfly: having anything run all the time would drain the battery. | 00:29 |
| greenfly | mtd: definitely, as it has to hit the local file system | 00:29 |
| mtd | greenfly: me too, but it's annoying to view images that way. | 00:29 |
| PaulFertser | papo: the number in hal comes from osso-bme-hal plugin or something like that. | 00:29 |
| greenfly | mtd: that "rsync" as it were, takes far more energy than asking an IMAP server how many new messages it has | 00:29 |
| mtd | greenfly: the operations are logically exactly the same. | 00:30 |
| greenfly | mtd: yeah, exactly. that's why I'd like a local mutt instance | 00:30 |
| papo | PaulFertser: hm so it's open sourced and I could check the code? | 00:30 |
| greenfly | mtd: the implementations are way different | 00:30 |
| PaulFertser | papo: sure not, nokia doesn't consider battery charging or even monitoring as anything suitable for outsiders. | 00:30 |
| greenfly | mtd: with offlineimap you have two separate sets of files that you are trying to keep in sync both ways | 00:30 |
| mtd | greenfly: "how many IMAP messages are new" (n900 pre-installed mail app asks remote IMAP server0 vs "how many IMAP messages are new" (offlineimap asks remote IMAP) | 00:30 |
| greenfly | mtd: which means hitting the local disk and traversing the local maildir every time | 00:30 |
| papo | PaulFertser: no not the code for charging the battery | 00:31 |
| greenfly | mtd: I'm talking about local resource usage | 00:31 |
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| mtd | greenfly: we are talking past each other | 00:31 |
| greenfly | mtd: offlineimap takes substantial CPU and local disk | 00:31 |
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| papo | PaulFertser: the code that reports back the current voltage | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm. pulseaudio could be worse. | 00:31 |
| greenfly | mtd: much more than something like, say, a fetchmail query | 00:31 |
| mtd | greenfly: if you've measure offlineimap vs n900 pre-installed app, ok. Have you? | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - it's using about the same power as mp3 decoding - but looking at cpy freqs - it's mostly at 250MHz | 00:31 |
| mtd | greenfly: that assertion is in no way obviously true. | 00:32 |
| greenfly | mtd: silly question as it's not ported | 00:32 |
| papo | hey SpeedEvil. Seems like you were right the other day, battery.voltage.current contains very odd stuff | 00:32 |
| PaulFertser | papo: i'm afraid that's all closed. There was some reverse-engineering work on n810, no idea how much that is applicable to n900. | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: I am always right! | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: Except when the minute is divisible by three. | 00:32 |
| mtd | is there a debian arm repo that can be used with the n900 maemo repos? | 00:32 |
| greenfly | mtd: it's not worth arguing about it I suppose, if you think that performing a remote IMAP query takes the same energy as traversing a local maildir with thousands of messages and then comparing them with a remote IMAP folder, than so be it | 00:33 |
| mtd | greenfly: apples and oranges. | 00:33 |
| mtd | greenfly: how do you know what to query for in that remote IMAP query? | 00:33 |
| mtd | greenfly: you are comparing the local list of messages to the remote list of messages in both cases. | 00:33 |
| greenfly | not at all | 00:33 |
| greenfly | with IMAP there are no local list of messages | 00:34 |
| greenfly | the messages reside on the server | 00:34 |
| greenfly | that's the whole point of IMAP | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: Well - it is complex. Someone over in ##electronics is trying to make a battery pack for his laptop. The lithium batteries can supply 35A (5*7 - there will be 5 cells in series). 7A - as that's what they measure when measured on the 10A range of a DMM. | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: I'm suspecting this won't end well. | 00:34 |
| greenfly | mtd: again, compare how long it takes offlineimap to run on your machine with running a fetchmail -c | 00:34 |
| mtd | greenfly: no, of course there is a local cache | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, indeed. | 00:35 |
| PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: am i missing some context? | 00:35 |
| mtd | greenfly: i have just disconnected my n900 client from the network entirely and i see all my messages in the n900 mail client. | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: of batterires - you were mentioning battery charging above | 00:35 |
| PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: because i have no idea why you talk about it. Though it's interesting indeed . | 00:35 |
| greenfly | mtd: local caches vary based on the client | 00:35 |
| mtd | greenfly: and I can read all the ones I've already read | 00:35 |
| ShadowJK | If the batteries are specced for 7A, then putting 5 in series doesn't mean you can pull 35A. Using the 10A range on DMM to measure a battery is essentially same as short circuiting it, which is a bad idea. | 00:35 |
| greenfly | mtd: it might cache a message /once you download it/ | 00:35 |
| greenfly | but otherwise it usually caches only the headers until you read the message | 00:35 |
| greenfly | and then at that point it pulls down the full message | 00:35 |
| mtd | greenfly: err, I thought that was so obvious I wouldn't mention it | 00:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - exactly. | 00:35 |
| greenfly | mtd: I still don't understand why you are arguing about it with me | 00:36 |
| greenfly | offlineimap takes some time to run | 00:36 |
| PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: and the moral is? | 00:36 |
| mtd | greenfly: and yeah, you think offlineimap is so stupid as to read each message in entirety when comparing local medssages vs remote rather than checking some message header/ids? | 00:36 |
| greenfly | I know. I use it all the time | 00:36 |
| mtd | greenfly: so does the n900 pre-installed client | 00:36 |
| greenfly | it doesn't read them, it likely does some sort of limited checksum | 00:36 |
| mtd | greenfly: like I said, the operations are the same. compare remote messages verses local. I agree implementations differ, but as neither of us have measured them I see little point in arguing about the implementations. | 00:37 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: http://snowball2.ethz.ch/charge.png | 00:37 |
| greenfly | mtd: IMAP clients don't compare local and remote | 00:37 |
| greenfly | they ask the remote server whether there are any new messages | 00:37 |
| greenfly | if so, they pull down those headers | 00:37 |
| greenfly | when you choose to open a particular message, the client pulls down that message's content | 00:38 |
| greenfly | again, a simple comparison would be to compare fetchmail -c versus what offlineimap does | 00:38 |
| mtd | greenfly: how exactly do you define "new" without reference to messages the client has already seen? | 00:38 |
| greenfly | since you aren't running a local IMAP server, offlineimap has to traverse each maildir | 00:38 |
| mtd | greenfly: I'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of. | 00:38 |
| greenfly | mtd: with IMAP and maildirs, it's done by messages being in the new versus cur directories | 00:39 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: I seriously hope that the controller is just reporting a wrong value back... | 00:39 |
| greenfly | mtd: I'm just trying to say that offlineimap running as often as one would like it to run to be useful, would IMO drain the battery of a n900 considerably | 00:39 |
| mtd | greenfly: *shrug* ok. not obviously true AFAICS. But thanks for trying to convince me of it :( | 00:40 |
| mtd | :) | 00:40 |
| greenfly | try this: run time offlineimap | 00:40 |
| greenfly | then set up fetchmail with the same folders | 00:40 |
| greenfly | and run: time fetchmail -c | 00:40 |
| jhp | greenfly: Not completly, because when you have multiple clients that are after each other accessing the same maildir, only the first one move the messages from new to cur. All clients just know the last header they have and ask if their is anything new since that header. | 00:40 |
| xorAxAx | is the n900 usable as a vibrator? | 00:41 |
| jhp | They get all new headers, also when they are in cur. | 00:41 |
| mtd | greenfly: any suggestions as to where I could get offlineimap for the n900? | 00:41 |
| greenfly | mtd: it's a python script, right? I imagine it wouldn't take much effort to port | 00:41 |
| jhp | xorAxAx: I'd have to ask my wife, but I don't want to waste my N900 on that ;-) | 00:41 |
| greenfly | 9/10ths of it would probably be optifying the ARM package | 00:41 |
| xorAxAx | jhp: slide it into some foil | 00:42 |
| greenfly | xorAxAx: seems like the n900 is a bit pricey compared to comparable sex toys | 00:42 |
| mtd | greenfly: why would a python script require any porting? | 00:42 |
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| mtd | greenfly: ah, I don't know about optifying. | 00:42 |
| greenfly | mtd: "port" in the sense of moving the files to be stored under /opt | 00:42 |
| mtd | greenfly: ok. | 00:42 |
| greenfly | mtd: as the / partition on the n900 is 256Mb | 00:43 |
| slonopotamus | vibrator script, launcheable via ssh. muahaha | 00:43 |
| xorAxAx | greenfly: indeed, but if the vibration system is rock solid | 00:43 |
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| mtd | xorAxAx: google for tele-dildonics and stop asking silly questions. | 00:43 |
| greenfly | it's possible offlineimap uses python libraries that haven't been packaged for the n900 but I don't know one way or the other right now | 00:43 |
| mtd | greenfly: sure. | 00:43 |
| greenfly | mtd: if you are comfortable repackaging .debs, it shouldn't take much effort | 00:43 |
| krig | Hmm, I wonder if it's possible for an app to take over the camera button (especially a game) - would make it quite nice to hold the phone in portrait mode, can move with keyboard with one hand and fire with camera button on the other | 00:44 |
| xorAxAx | mtd: ok, will have a look | 00:44 |
| greenfly | mtd: I'd just repackage it to move all the files to /opt/offlineimap and then have the deb post-install script set up the appropriate symlinks | 00:44 |
| jhp | mutt doesn't understand the address book right ? | 00:44 |
| PaulFertser | jhp: it understand a text file you can probably dump address book to. | 00:44 |
| mtd | greenfly: I have to read about optifying. Is there any web page you'd recommend? Google just tells me about loads of maemo-devel messages. | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | xorAxAx: there are bluetooth devices for that. | 00:45 |
| jhp | But am I correct to think that mutt does cache the headers correctly ? | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | xorAxAx: waterproof ones. | 00:45 |
| greenfly | mtd: I'm just using "optify" as a generic term | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | krig: see camerad | 00:45 |
| xorAxAx | SpeedEvil: sounds expensive | 00:45 |
| greenfly | mtd: essentially what I mean is just the process of taking an app and moving all its files to a directory under /opt | 00:45 |
| SpeedEvil | krig: however that does not quite take over the cam button - it only takes over the half-press stage | 00:45 |
| greenfly | mtd: look, for instance, of how a package like vim is packaged on maemo | 00:45 |
| mtd | greenfly: ah. I thought you referred to maemo-optify (which I can find mentioned as apt-get installable on the mailing list but can't find in any repos) or python-optify. | 00:45 |
| mtd | (which is apt-get installable for me) | 00:46 |
| greenfly | mtd: I'm not well-versed in those packages so I'm not sure maybe they'd help | 00:46 |
| krig | SpeedEvil: cool.. i'll have to play with that :) | 00:46 |
| greenfly | mtd: I'd take a look at how the vim package does it (dpkg -L vim) and then try to do something similar for offlineimap | 00:46 |
| * slonopotamus is really sad to see everyone buried in maemoization process instead of creating new/improving existing programs. | 00:48 | |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: should get easier as everyone gets used to the new layout | 00:49 |
| PaulFertser | jhp: yes, mutt does cache the headers | 00:49 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, it should be a noop. took ubuntu package, dpkg -i, run. | 00:49 |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: why in the world would you think that? | 00:49 |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: they are different distributions for one | 00:50 |
| greenfly | so library versions, etc. would be different | 00:50 |
| greenfly | you can't just take any .deb and install it on any existing ubuntu or debian release | 00:50 |
| slonopotamus | sure. pick a compatible version. | 00:50 |
| greenfly | in the case of the n900, design decisions had to be made so that things like firmware updates could work | 00:51 |
| krig | slonopotamus: it's not that simple. can't even install .debs for different versions of debian without issues | 00:51 |
| greenfly | so if you happened to brick your device, you could potentially get it back to a running state with a firmware install | 00:51 |
| slonopotamus | krig, different versions - yep | 00:51 |
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| greenfly | to do that, there had to be some separation between the "system" or "firmware" files, and any packages installed later | 00:52 |
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| greenfly | the design decision in this case (please let's not argue about it here yet again) was to use /opt | 00:52 |
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| slonopotamus | that's why i'm sad about maemo | 00:52 |
| krig | for one, it needs to be compiled for ARM instead of x86 to work on the N900 | 00:52 |
| greenfly | which, if you read the filesystem hierarchy standard, and expand your definition of "third-party applications", makes some sense | 00:52 |
| palceioa | hi i am interested in applying to maemo for gsoc-10 | 00:52 |
| palceioa | who do i talk to? | 00:53 |
| woglinde_ | palceioa wait till next gsoc announcemnet | 00:53 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, the only thing tha t matters is that it involves manual changes to each and every package. | 00:53 |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: what we have now, is essentially the best compromise that could be made to satisfy the requirements based on the limitations of the device | 00:53 |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: yeah. it's a new linux distribution | 00:54 |
| lardman | night all | 00:54 |
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| greenfly | slonopotamus: again, you can't expect a debian sid package to automatically work on Ubuntu karmic | 00:54 |
| greenfly | they are different distributions and if you want a package to work on both, you may have to do a little bit of work to port it | 00:54 |
| palceioa | woglinde_, gsoc10 will probably happen, rumours surround that. do you have any suggestions that i might do to get into Maemo dev, rather experience maemo beforehand? | 00:54 |
| krig | the whole thing is pretty automatable though - I wouldn't be surprised to see auto-optification tools popping up soon that do the whole thing without any manual work | 00:55 |
| greenfly | in the case of the maemo5 distribution, this means taking an ARM package and organizing it so it stores its files in /opt | 00:55 |
| frals | anyone feel adventurous and needs to add a new GPRS APN on their N900? please test fAPN from testing and vote for it ;-) | 00:55 |
| greenfly | krig: yeah, I mean it's the kind of thing a script could easily do | 00:55 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, i can expect debian source package to build and work correctly under ubuntu _without_ any modifications. | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: is there any way to do the reverse? | 00:55 |
| greenfly | ie: "Take all packages under /usr, move to /opt/packagename, create symlinks" | 00:55 |
| palceioa | sounds cool frals | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: to extract what APN is being used | 00:55 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, claiming that current decision was 'the best' needs some proof. | 00:56 |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: again, no amount of complaining is going to make / on the n900 greater than 256Mb | 00:56 |
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| mtd | frals: saw fapn but I don't know how it'd be useful, sorry. need to google APN. | 00:56 |
| greenfly | it's NAND flash | 00:56 |
| frals | should be a way to get the currently used one with dbus or libconic, not sure though | 00:56 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, heck, don't put / on nand flash and this limitation is gome | 00:56 |
| krig | greenfly: well, one thing that I at least think was a major mistake was allocating most of the MMC to a FAT32 partition. That's just.. icky. | 00:56 |
| slonopotamus | s/gome/gone/ | 00:56 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: greenfly, heck, don't put / on nand flash and this limitation is gone | 00:56 |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: tell me your best effort design decision considering a 256Mb NAND flash, and 32Mb regular flash, that allows third parties to install packages but also allows someone to fix a broken device with a firmware install | 00:57 |
| frals | mtd: adds a new itnernet access point for GPRS in "internet connections" on the device, currently the UI doesnt permit adding one | 00:57 |
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| greenfly | also, for fun, add on the requirement that when a user plugs in a USB drive into a windows system, that it can read and store some files somewhere | 00:57 |
| ali1234 | greenfly: put / on NAND and /usr on flash, and don't install any firmware parts in /usr | 00:58 |
| greenfly | er, not usb drive, when the user plugs in the n900 to a windows machine I meant | 00:58 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, i don't see why firmware install should be any different from reinstall on desktop. | 00:58 |
| krig | greenfly: that's what the SD expansion slot is for ;P | 00:58 |
| greenfly | ali1234: doesn't the firmware include things like X, and other important libs like python? | 00:58 |
| SpeedEvil | greenfly: that could in principle be done with a FS->FAT translation layer | 00:58 |
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| ali1234 | greenfly: yes. so what? | 00:58 |
| SpeedEvil | greenfly: that would be more code though | 00:58 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, just throw away nand. and leave all the rest as is, putting / on sd. | 00:59 |
| greenfly | ali1234: shouldn't that be under /usr according to the FHS? | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | I organise my linux boxes according to the FSM. | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | All hail his noodlyness. | 00:59 |
| ali1234 | greenfly: so what? | 00:59 |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: how does firmware upgrades versus 3rd-party packages work in your model? | 01:00 |
| krig | everything installs to /pasta | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | krig: naah. ~-~~~~~ | 01:00 |
| greenfly | ali1234: so now all the firmware packages and libraries (including python) are in /bin and /sbin and /lib? | 01:00 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, the same way it works on your desktop. | 01:00 |
| mtd | frals: thx | 01:00 |
| ali1234 | greenfly: yes | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | union FS | 01:00 |
| greenfly | I can't believe now I have to argue on Nokia's behalf for /opt with all of you | 01:00 |
| luke-jr | greenfly: firmware is under /lib/firmware | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | / is RO | 01:00 |
| ali1234 | greenfly: you don't have to, you won't convince us anyay | 01:01 |
| greenfly | I'm just saying that it was a design decision they made at the time to try to compromise between a few competing needs | 01:01 |
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| greenfly | it works okay | 01:01 |
| mtd | greenfly: heh | 01:01 |
| slonopotamus | /opt is just crap. | 01:01 |
| greenfly | I don't necessarily like it myself but it's not like it's going to be changed | 01:01 |
| greenfly | slonopotamus: I hate /opt myself, I'm a /usr/local guy | 01:01 |
| ali1234 | even the way /opt/ has been implemented is crap | 01:01 |
| luke-jr | greenfly: /usr should never be needed to boot. | 01:01 |
| greenfly | but oh well. it's where it is | 01:01 |
| greenfly | luke-jr: no offense, but duh | 01:01 |
| greenfly | it's stated clearly in the FHS | 01:01 |
| ali1234 | they could have implemented it such that configure --prefix=/opt would work | 01:01 |
| slonopotamus | greenfly, i just said i was sad :P | 01:01 |
| ali1234 | but instead they decided to invent a new and broken system | 01:02 |
| woglinde_ | hi lau | 01:02 |
| woglinde_ | args | 01:02 |
| krig | greenfly: honestly, it's obvious they realised there was a problem WAY too late, and this is an emergency fix. Not to say it ruins everything, it's not a big deal | 01:02 |
| woglinde_ | hi ali I meant | 01:02 |
| luke-jr | greenfly: also, FHS doesn't require X under /usr | 01:02 |
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| greenfly | luke-jr: no it doesn't, but it seems to obviate moving it to /bin | 01:02 |
| greenfly | er, not obviate, but it seems to restrict it | 01:02 |
| luke-jr | shrug | 01:03 |
| greenfly | since you want / to be as small as possible | 01:03 |
| luke-jr | so there's no X unless your /usr mounts | 01:03 |
| luke-jr | that's livable as long as console works | 01:03 |
| greenfly | this means trying to restrict libs and binaries in /bin, /sbin/, and /lib to only what you must have to mount /usr | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | on NetBSD, all extra packages are installed with a prefix of /usr/pkg... a similar solution would be nice :-( | 01:03 |
| Macer | men's warehouse is talking about how you rent a tux for your wedding day? | 01:03 |
| Macer | wtf rents a tux for their wedding? | 01:03 |
| greenfly | people who don't own a tux? | 01:04 |
| luke-jr | Macer: no clue, I just wore whatever was in my dresser :D | 01:04 |
| Macer | so poor people? | 01:04 |
| ali1234 | people who listen to marketing? | 01:04 |
| Macer | i mean it was like this huge wedding they were showing and they were talking about renting a tux? | 01:04 |
| greenfly | Macer: depends I guess | 01:04 |
| Macer | :) | 01:04 |
| Macer | that's just ghetto | 01:04 |
| Macer | i mean i could understand if you elope or something | 01:04 |
| Macer | but for a REAL wedding ? | 01:04 |
| mtd | Macer: how many tuxes do you own? | 01:04 |
| greenfly | in the modern age, at least in the US, there are fewer and fewer occaisions (at least in the middle class and below) to need a tux | 01:05 |
| luke-jr | Macer: why *not* rent for a one-time thing? :P | 01:05 |
| Macer | well. a tux 1 but it's old. but i have a lot of suits | 01:05 |
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| greenfly | even at the opera most people wear a regular suit | 01:05 |
| greenfly | at least here in san francisco | 01:05 |
| Macer | a tux is a little different than a nice suit tho :) | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I bought a suit at the beginning of the year. | 01:05 |
| jhp | PaulFertser: Are their for mutt on the n900 ? | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Wore it once. | 01:05 |
| Macer | luke-jr: because it is something you keep | 01:05 |
| luke-jr | Macer: packrat | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | This year I have lost ~15kg. | 01:05 |
| PaulFertser | jhp: no idea, sorry | 01:06 |
| Macer | luke-jr: not really | 01:06 |
| woglinde_ | hm mutt with touchscreen | 01:06 |
| mtd | Macer: if one gets married before 3pm, it's annoying to get a morning suit that one will rarely use. | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | And plan to lose a total of 25Kg | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | So it's useless. | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | suits are overrated | 01:06 |
| PaulFertser | woglinde_: i tried it and it's ok | 01:06 |
| woglinde_ | PaulFertser *g* | 01:06 |
| luke-jr | if it keeps you warm and isn't an eyesore, good | 01:06 |
| greenfly | Macer: I know when I got married, I didn't have the extra money to buy a tux | 01:06 |
| Macer | greenfly: then you should have waited until you did :) | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | Macer: you're not one to talk ;) | 01:07 |
| greenfly | seems like sound logic | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | an expensive ring, I can understand | 01:07 |
| Macer | greenfly: well. in my eyes. if you have to rent a tux for one of the most important days of your life where you will be married to a woman you love... | 01:07 |
| Macer | then you don't have enough money to support a family :) | 01:07 |
| luke-jr | it represents financial security and can provide for a bit in case of the husband dying | 01:08 |
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| mtd | greenfly: you're not married, I take it. Especially if you told your fiance "I'd love to get married, but let's just wait until I get my tux." | 01:08 |
| Macer | i mean do women rent their wedding dress? that doesn't sound normal | 01:08 |
| mtd | Macer, sorry | 01:08 |
| krig | New version of jamaendo, test/vote please: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_i386/jamaendo/0.2.5-1/ | 01:08 |
| Macer | mtd: i was ;) but i eloped.. wore a suit that i owned though haha | 01:08 |
| pillar | Macer it happens | 01:08 |
| * mtd can't believe he's participating, goes back to configuring offlineimap on his n900. | 01:08 | |
| luke-jr | Macer: buying clothing you will never wear again is just insane | 01:08 |
| Macer | luke-jr: if you say so :) | 01:09 |
| greenfly | mtd: I was being sarcastic | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | The big question is about storage of clothing you use once. Do you put it in /opt or Mydocs? | 01:09 |
| Macer | mtd: hahaha | 01:09 |
| luke-jr | hahaha | 01:09 |
| mtd | greenfly: sorry that was meant for Macer | 01:09 |
| slonopotamus | SpeedEvil, :D | 01:09 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: Mydocs/Pictures ;) | 01:09 |
| luke-jr | mtd: Macer's wife left him or something | 01:09 |
| Macer | luke-jr: no. we ended it bitter and in divorce .. it was a mutual hatred for one another towards the end | 01:10 |
| Macer | :) | 01:10 |
| Macer | maybe because we didn't get married in the church? | 01:10 |
| Macer | lol | 01:10 |
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| mtd | Macer: maybe because you told her you needed to delay the wedding until you bought a tux. | 01:10 |
| * mtd laps himself, back to .offlineimaprc | 01:11 | |
| luke-jr | Macer: there is no such thing as divorce, kthx | 01:11 |
| Macer | mtd: naw.. we eloped. went and got her a very nice dress and i already had a few nice suits one of which i wore ;) | 01:11 |
| Macer | luke-jr: if you say so too | 01:11 |
| Macer | mtd: but when i got married i knew i could get a tux if i needed to is what i'm saying. | 01:11 |
| luke-jr | by mugging someone? | 01:12 |
| luke-jr | <., | 01:12 |
| luke-jr | <.<* | 01:12 |
| mtd | Macer: your ideas are fascinating and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. | 01:12 |
| luke-jr | LOL | 01:12 |
| slonopotamus | >.> | 01:12 |
| Macer | :) | 01:12 |
| Macer | well. what's more important? the marriage or the love? | 01:13 |
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| mtd | Macer: you don't have to justify anything to me. | 01:14 |
| luke-jr | Macer: the marriage is more important | 01:14 |
| Macer | if a woman truly loves you she will not care about a marriage .. or if you told her that you wanted to wait so you can be on more firm ground so when you start a life together everything will be worked out instead of rolling the dice and taking a chance with love alone .. also as a man you would want to give the woman you love the wedding she wants | 01:14 |
| Macer | luke-jr: i disagree ;) | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | if it's about a wedding, someone has the wrong intentions | 01:15 |
| mtd | wow, someone please argue about /opt and LSB-compliance again. | 01:15 |
| luke-jr | /opt is lame | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | kthx | 01:16 |
| Macer | mtd: haha. sorry ;) just thought it was odd that they showed the large wedding with "rent a tux" | 01:16 |
| *** Flandry is now known as Oprah | 01:16 | |
| Macer | luke-jr: you're right. /opt is lame | 01:16 |
| Macer | who came up with it? | 01:16 |
| Macer | i bet it was redhat | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | probably | 01:16 |
| luke-jr | heck, FHS is lame too | 01:17 |
| Oprah | thought opt was before redhat | 01:17 |
| mtd | Macer: err, /opt's been around a lot longer than RH | 01:17 |
| luke-jr | Apple had the right idea with /Applications and crap | 01:17 |
| luke-jr | but they overcomplicated it | 01:17 |
| mtd | Macer: yes, I find that odd too. | 01:17 |
| Macer | mtd: has it? | 01:17 |
| Macer | bsd maybe? for "optional" stuff? | 01:17 |
| mtd | Macer: sure. solaris had it ages ago. | 01:17 |
| krig | "/Applications and crap" <- I like that | 01:17 |
| luke-jr | and each package should have its own isolated directory | 01:18 |
| mtd | luke-jr: s/Applications/opt/ | 01:18 |
| mtd | luke-jr: it's the same thing | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | mtd: except 'opt' is lame | 01:18 |
| Macer | wasn't someone working on that? | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | and doesn't work in practice | 01:18 |
| mtd | luke-jr: Applications sucks worse. too much typing. | 01:18 |
| Macer | the pkgs with the dirs i mean | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | mtd: you don't have a tab key? | 01:18 |
| xorAxAx | real men do not use directories | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | oh, right, this is #Maemo | 01:18 |
| luke-jr | Nokia stole it | 01:18 |
| type_t | c:\"Documents and Settings"\user\"Application Data" | 01:19 |
| krig | there's http://www.gobolinux.org/ | 01:19 |
| Macer | xorAxAx: haha. well. i was going to say that it reminded me of windows | 01:19 |
| krig | no idea if it works | 01:19 |
| Macer | where everything is in its own place | 01:19 |
| luke-jr | Macer: I implemented something like that a long time ago IIRC | 01:19 |
| luke-jr | Macer: Windows does *some* things right | 01:19 |
| Macer | but then again i think windows uses far less shared stuff which is where the problem lies | 01:19 |
| mtd | type_t: indeed | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: the voltage in that graph is clearly not real. | 01:19 |
| krig | ehm. DLL hell anyone? and manifests.. shit. Microsofts system is utterly broken. | 01:19 |
| luke-jr | krig: I said some, not 'all' or even 'most' | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: I keep meaning to actually work out where that is from. I suspsect twl4030 | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | and libraries are packages too | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | they each need their own isolated dir | 01:20 |
| Macer | luke-jr: that's insane :) | 01:20 |
| luke-jr | Macer: NO U | 01:20 |
| Macer | haha | 01:20 |
| krig | luke-jr: I'd agree, but the only thing I can think of that's in the 'right'-list is keyboards | 01:20 |
| krig | they make pretty good keyboards | 01:20 |
| Macer | krig: i still have an old clicky ibm keyboard | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | krig: mice | 01:21 |
| Macer | the one with the mechanical keys | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | at least some of them | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | krig: I also have a microsoft pen, that I liked. | 01:21 |
| krig | Macer: been looking at a Das Keyboard, supposed to be as good as the old ibm ones.. but the money has kept me away :P | 01:21 |
| Macer | krig: that thing is a beast | 01:21 |
| Macer | i could probably knock someone over the head with it and kill them then plug it right back in and start typing without even noticing any change | 01:22 |
| krig | haha | 01:22 |
| Macer | i think it was pre made in china :( | 01:22 |
| Macer | wow china made stuff horrible | 01:22 |
| xorAxAx | Macer: but that wasnt the reason for divorce? :) | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I want http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IBM-ENHANCED-KEYBOARD-WITH-TRACKPOINT-II-92G7461_W0QQitemZ290292972127QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item4396cf3a5f | 01:22 |
| redeeman | krig: das keyboard version 2 is atleast awesome | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | but... | 01:22 |
| redeeman | krig: well worth the money | 01:22 |
| Macer | xorAxAx: no. i hit her over the head with it but she survived | 01:22 |
| krig | yeah, there are spousal issues with a clickety keyboard as well :P | 01:22 |
| Macer | :) | 01:22 |
| xorAxAx | i have one of the most silent keyboards | 01:23 |
| xorAxAx | meeh, tpb doesnt work | 01:23 |
| Macer | MS does make an awesome keyboard tho | 01:23 |
| Oprah | ... an iPhone... | 01:23 |
| xorAxAx | i want to leach some rachmanninoff | 01:23 |
| Macer | their newer ergo type keyboards are pretty nice to type on | 01:23 |
| xorAxAx | -n | 01:23 |
| Macer | i thought their mouse was a little out thre though. the sidewinder with the weights and shit | 01:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I was really surprised at how good the n900 kwyb is. | 01:24 |
| Macer | isn't it like the n810s? | 01:24 |
| xorAxAx | i hated the n810 keyboard | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | never used n810 | 01:24 |
| Macer | me too | 01:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | I know that - with maybe 5 hours practice on the n900 - I'm up to maybe 95% accuracy | 01:24 |
| Oprah | yay US telecom "customer service" | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | with my eyes closed. | 01:25 |
| Macer | i think the G1 actually has an awesome keyboard | 01:25 |
| luke-jr | C760 = best handheld keyboard so far | 01:25 |
| Oprah | that's 90 minutes of my life i'll never get back :/ | 01:25 |
| Oprah | C860 with less travel would be better | 01:25 |
| luke-jr | Oprah: you're supposed to do productive things concurrently | 01:25 |
| Macer | luke-jr: i was going to tm snap on qwerty for phones that didn't ahve them | 01:25 |
| Macer | heh | 01:25 |
| Oprah | i couldn't | 01:25 |
| Macer | like a snap on qwerty for the nexus | 01:25 |
| luke-jr | Macer: you can't trademark ideas, fail | 01:25 |
| Oprah | it wasn't hold, it was arguing | 01:25 |
| Macer | well.. patent | 01:26 |
| Macer | :) | 01:26 |
| Macer | ? | 01:26 |
| Oprah | ha | 01:26 |
| Oprah | tell that to the USPO | 01:26 |
| luke-jr | Macer: still can't, prior art | 01:26 |
| SpeedEvil | you can patent stuff with prior art | 01:26 |
| Macer | prior art? | 01:26 |
| Macer | someone drew a snap on keyboard or something? | 01:26 |
| *** Oprah is now known as Flandry | 01:26 | |
| SpeedEvil | you just have to describe it in ways the patent examiner won't realise it. | 01:26 |
| Macer | :) | 01:26 |
| luke-jr | Macer: translation "I thought of it first" | 01:26 |
| Macer | hahaha | 01:26 |
| Macer | wtf? | 01:26 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: it wouldn't hold up | 01:27 |
| Macer | does someone sell this already? | 01:27 |
| luke-jr | you don't have to use patents | 01:27 |
| luke-jr | or ideas | 01:27 |
| Flandry | mmm prior art | 01:27 |
| Flandry | http://www.sondheimguide.com/graphics/prior.jpg | 01:27 |
| luke-jr | all someone has to do is prove someone thought of it before you did | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: no. | 01:28 |
| luke-jr | in theory | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: they have to prove they thought of it first. AND THEN WIN IN A FUCKING EXPENSIVE COURT CASE. | 01:28 |
| Macer | haha | 01:28 |
| Flandry | prior not-so-art http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/interviews/greg_anderson_01.jpg | 01:29 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: well, true XD | 01:29 |
| Macer | Flandry: after seeing that first one i refuse to see the second one | 01:29 |
| Macer | ;) | 01:29 |
| Macer | anyways. i'm going back to watching bones | 01:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Patents are only slightly less broken than copyright term extension. | 01:29 |
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| Macer | SpeedEvil: loved it when disney was able to lobby | 01:29 |
| Macer | when mickey mouse was about to expire | 01:29 |
| Flandry | back to your booth then | 01:29 |
| Macer | must be nice to have the law bent to your will like that :) | 01:30 |
| ShadowJK | they're about to abolish the practice of prior art anyway | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Something like the original - maybe a bit more is sane. ~25-30 years or 15 years after death whichever is sooner. | 01:30 |
| ShadowJK | (the one who gets a patent approved first gets it, regardless of who invented it first) | 01:31 |
| luke-jr | still insane | 01:31 |
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| Flandry | that's even worse | 01:31 |
| luke-jr | it should only be for 5 years after release to public | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | hasn't US always been first to file? | 01:31 |
| Flandry | for some reason Caldera comes to mind | 01:32 |
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| philo | hi | 01:33 |
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| philo | any one have some info on the "graphic chip" in the nexus ? | 01:33 |
| luke-jr | philo: there is a good chance it's the same one as in the XBox360 | 01:33 |
| philo | comparing it to the gpx ? | 01:33 |
| philo | that's quite good | 01:33 |
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| arachnist | luke-jr: no kidding | 01:35 |
| luke-jr | AMD Z430 GPU | 01:35 |
| luke-jr | actually an upgrade from XBox360's | 01:35 |
| philo | so i guess it is far better than the gpx on the n900 | 01:36 |
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| arachnist | wonder what's the battery life of nexus | 01:36 |
| luke-jr | philo: not necessarily | 01:36 |
| philo | really ? | 01:37 |
| philo | do you where i can read a litle on it ? | 01:37 |
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| luke-jr | dunno | 01:38 |
| luke-jr | Qualcomm bought the IP outright, so it'll probably remain fairly closed | 01:38 |
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| mtd | wtf is up with the org.maemo.playback dbus message spam (every 10s)? | 01:39 |
| luke-jr | some thread Google found says SGX is 14 MPoly/s vs Z430 at 22 MPoly/s | 01:39 |
| arachnist | mpolys and fill rates are not everything | 01:39 |
| luke-jr | arachnist: please feel free to do a useful comparison then :) | 01:40 |
| arachnist | luke-jr: lets run some real-world benchmark, like glxgears ;) | 01:40 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: Hm ok | 01:40 |
| luke-jr | haha | 01:40 |
| luke-jr | arachnist: sounds good, remind me when I have 3D accel working | 01:41 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: It's going to be real hard to work out some decent predictions if the data is just that borked :( | 01:41 |
| luke-jr | don't have Nexus/Snapdragon, but I do have that gfx chipset | 01:41 |
| arachnist | hehe | 01:41 |
| philo | there so much hardware now | 01:42 |
| philo | but none of them well documented | 01:42 |
| pupnik | i want a racer game for openstreetmaps | 01:43 |
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| * pupnik ponders | 01:43 | |
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| arachnist | i wonder how hard/easy would it be to get ar.parrot controllable from N900 | 01:45 |
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| ShadowJK | “'a fortnight ago' is not a legal date.” <- bugzilla sucks ;-) | 01:49 |
| Macer | haha | 01:49 |
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| andre__ | ShadowJK, file an enhancement request upstream ;-) | 01:50 |
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| jhp | Are deb packages for the N810 and the N900 compatible? | 01:57 |
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| jhp | I have found a mutt package for the N810. | 01:57 |
| ml-N900 | they -might- work, but there is no guarantee | 01:57 |
| ml-N900 | I would recommend against it | 01:58 |
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| N900evil | atmosphere bought current don't extras-devel finding getting have interrupt jailbreaking kirkcaldy lesson measurement non-free other picturesque qauality ridiculous some ther usb vcam which xchat yoiu zda | 01:59 |
| N900evil | oops | 01:59 |
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| pupnik | wow | 01:59 |
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| krig | that's... almost a sentence there | 01:59 |
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| N900evil | I was just seeing what completion had in the dict. | 02:00 |
| N900evil | Is it possible to train it - I'd like to dump a few meg of my output through it. | 02:01 |
| N900evil | oh - that was what I came here for. Can the scrollbar at the bottom of fbreader be turned off? i keep hitting it accidentally. | 02:03 |
| N900evil | ah. toggle indicator under view. | 02:05 |
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| woglinde | 40 mio hits in december | 02:13 |
| woglinde | for maemo.org | 02:13 |
| N900evil | mio? | 02:14 |
| woglinde | http://maemoteam.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/maemo-org-server-move/ | 02:14 |
| N900evil | ah | 02:14 |
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| mtd | anybody know why I can't dbus-send the method call com.nokia.modest.SendReceive to com.nokia.modest (fremantle)? | 02:22 |
| mtd | dbus complains that the method (no args) doesn't exist, but https://git.maemo.org/projects/modest/gitweb?p=modest;a=blob;f=libmodest-dbus-client/src/libmode\ | 02:23 |
| mtd | st-dbus-api.h;h=b06ac279c04d1c2e059e25d4444ac0a815bd687a;hb=HEAD | 02:23 |
| mtd | ...claims it does. | 02:23 |
| mtd | (sorry for the botched paste) | 02:24 |
| mtd | I'm doing dbus-send --session --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.modest /com/nokia/modest com.nokia.modest.SendReceive | 02:24 |
| mtd | it appears to succeed but if I run dbus-monitor --session I see the call has failed. | 02:24 |
| jebba | dbus-send --system --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call --type=method_call --print-reply \ | 02:25 |
| jebba | /com/nokia/csd/call com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith string:"$1" uint32:0 | 02:25 |
| jebba | $1= fone number mtd | 02:25 |
| mtd | jebba: thanks, but I'm trying to get modest to send/receive email, not get the phone to ring a number :) | 02:25 |
| jebba | ah, sorry kind of spaced out tired here heh | 02:26 |
| mtd | jebba: np :) | 02:26 |
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| mtd | it seems com.nokia.intellisynd has taken over email accounts - not sure if that's right or by apt-get installing nokiamessaging I did something stupid. argh :( | 02:30 |
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| ShadowJK | oops, how did I enter bug numbers into bugzilla comments so that they show up as links | 02:43 |
| gavin | "bug 12345" gets linkified automatically | 02:43 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12345 was not found. | 02:43 |
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| ShadowJK | I wrote #6635 and that didn't get linkified. Wish I could edit comments :-) | 02:44 |
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| woglinde1 | lol | 02:52 |
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| woglinde1 | opie ion my simpad feels faster like the n900 | 02:52 |
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| jebba | i wish you could preview bug reports/comments in bugzilla... | 03:05 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: just learn from your mistake | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | bugzilla is natural language based | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | you can have 'bug x', 'comment x', 'bug x comment y', 'attachment x' | 03:08 |
| timeless_mbp | making a number magically do something is just asking for trouble | 03:09 |
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| ShadowJK | I must've been confused after failing to use natural language in date :) | 03:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | 'date'? | 03:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you mean query | 03:11 |
| timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?help=1 | 03:11 |
| ShadowJK | iirc there was an iso date and a mention that relative is ok, so I tried it the cvs way :) | 03:11 |
| ShadowJK | in advanced search | 03:12 |
| sp3000 | e.g. 1d works | 03:13 |
| ShadowJK | so many differentg syntaxes with so many things I don't need too often :) | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | oh well, could be worse, I could have put bbcode or typed <a href... into bugzilla comments | 03:15 |
| * sp3000 gets into the oh let's not paint every frame state | 03:15 | |
| sp3000 | it's annoying because it makes it look like things are sluggish, when ...they aren't :) | 03:15 |
| sp3000 | ShadowJK: yeah people frequently enough do try those | 03:16 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm afraid to ask, but since the mails sent by bugzilla aren't threaded, I assume that replying to them doesn't do anything useful? | 03:18 |
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| sp3000 | well, they can thread, they're In-Reply-To the opening mail | 03:19 |
| ShadowJK | is there a mailing list? | 03:20 |
| sp3000 | clients I suppose can be picky about threading together the messages if the "parent" is missing | 03:20 |
| ShadowJK | i dont have the opening if I'm just added to cc after adding a comment | 03:20 |
| sp3000 | I'm not quite sure by what means tbird is threading them in my case, either that header, or by guessing by subject | 03:21 |
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| Flandry | ROFL finally got a response to my bug report submitted on Ubuntu 0810 more than a year ago | 03:26 |
| sp3000 | probably mozbug181446, fixed for tb3 | 03:26 |
| Flandry | "not enough detail" is basically what he said | 03:26 |
| Flandry | haha | 03:26 |
| sp3000 | oh, wait, that was released? | 03:27 |
| Flandry | let me go back and reinstall edgy or whatever that was and check | 03:27 |
| Flandry | lol | 03:27 |
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| sp3000 | right, december | 03:27 |
| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: "Note that if the help popups are hidden by form element scroll bars, this is a bug in your browser, not in Bugzilla." but my browser doesn't have that bug, couldn't it sniff better? :) | 03:28 |
| timeless_mbp | we're too lazy :) | 03:29 |
| timeless_mbp | feel free to try to file a bug | 03:29 |
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| sp3000 | but I don't want flaming red notes that don't apply to me :( | 03:29 |
| sp3000 | Components are second-level categories; each belongs to | 03:30 |
| sp3000 | a | 03:30 |
| sp3000 | particular Product. Select a Product to narrow down this | 03:30 |
| sp3000 | list. | 03:30 |
| sp3000 | ...is the wrapping I get :) | 03:30 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: replying will get you a friendly letter from the postmaster saying that there's no such useful account | 03:30 |
| sp3000 | vera/dejavu sans = fairly wide | 03:30 |
| timeless_mbp | if you're lucky | 03:30 |
| papo | hum | 03:30 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: in case you haven't read the internet memos on the subject of smtp | 03:31 |
| timeless_mbp | here's a brief summary: | 03:31 |
| timeless_mbp | SMTP does not encode any trust information about senders <PERIOD> | 03:31 |
| papo | I can't even send SMS with this "phone"... very odd. Sending to most of my contacts work but if I want to send an SMS to my girlfriend, it keeps failing | 03:31 |
| timeless_mbp | as such, any system that accepts messages for public viewing and assumes attribution based on those fields is asking for abuse | 03:31 |
| sp3000 | signing! except ...well, yeah. | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | SMTPs problems are simple to fix. | 03:32 |
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| papo | anyone experienced something similar? If I resend, it fails again. Seems to be this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=458512&postcount=7 | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | First obtain a delorian. | 03:33 |
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| papo | SpeedEvil: I haven't worked out the flux capacitor completely yet :( | 03:33 |
| * SpeedEvil is trying to understand how ioctls work in the kernel. | 03:34 | |
| SpeedEvil | I can't find where they get fefined. | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | (twl4030-madc is the module which reads the battery volts and stuff) | 03:34 |
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| papo | SpeedEvil: Oh I've been looking for this module earlier | 03:35 |
| sp3000 | papo: that post seems to say the message does get through but the state is eventually shown incorrectly? | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - right - got it | 03:36 |
| papo | sp3000: the thread is about sms which fail to deliver | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | static long twl4030_madc_ioctl(struct file *filp, unsigned int cmd, | 03:36 |
| papo | sp3000: someone complained that this happened on new year's eve which is not exactly a reliable source | 03:37 |
| papo | sp3000: but the post I quited is precisely what happens to me... send SMS, wait 2 seconds, delivery failed | 03:37 |
| papo | sp3000: not sure if the sms made it through, though... maybe someone has 30+ sms tomorrow :( | 03:38 |
| sp3000 | pretty much all the posts on the thread seem to say the messages do go through | 03:38 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: can you point me to the source? or is this part of the "official" linux kernel (kernel.org)? | 03:38 |
| sp3000 | do you have the receipt notification thinger enabled (guess it shows a banner then) | 03:39 |
| papo | sp3000: yes | 03:39 |
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| papo | it shows a banner which says "sms delivery to <girlfriend> failed" | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: it's the kernel that's linked prominently on the maemo website - I forget exactly wehre | 03:39 |
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| papo | SpeedEvil: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/k/kernel/kernel-source_2.6.28-20094102.3+0m5_all.deb maybe? | 03:41 |
| sp3000 | or perhaps it's a confusion of some sort between "failed forever" and "failed for now" | 03:41 |
| papo | sp3000: hm yeah that's possible, she often switches it off | 03:42 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: that looks like the right place - buit I got the tarball and patches | 03:42 |
| papo | sp3000: I sent one more sms to myself between my trials to myself which got delivered properly... odd | 03:42 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: hm possible that I'll get a tarball when I unpack the deb... at least it can't be *that* wrong | 03:43 |
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| papo | SpeedEvil: oh or you mean the original tarball and the debian diff? | 03:43 |
| Flandry | LOL | 03:43 |
| Flandry | "We don't have caller ID" -- T-Mobile customer care | 03:44 |
| sshinobi | greets all | 03:44 |
| Flandry | that's hilarious | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: no - there is a normal kernel tarball somewhere - and a normal kernel patch | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Flandry: ass-hats. | 03:44 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: hm ok | 03:44 |
| Flandry | yeah only took three separate calls to get them to transfer my VZW number :X | 03:45 |
| Flandry | and then they didn't know what number i was calling on. How am i going to know when i got it this week? :D | 03:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | papo: mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ | 03:50 |
| timeless_mbp | which is linked prominently from the irc channel topic... | 03:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Flandry: at least you haven't had two credit card vendors in a row lie to you | 03:51 |
| papo | timeless: aw thank you. Time for the brown paper bag | 03:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Discover gave me instructions for disabling their Firefox addon which were tailored for IE | 03:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Citi suggested that they don't test their addon for Firefox | 03:52 |
| Flandry | not since last summer anyway | 03:52 |
| timeless_mbp | which is clever since they've specifically packaged it for firefox | 03:52 |
| * timeless_mbp can't quite imagine how one would write software *specifically* for a given product and not test it at all | 03:52 | |
| * timeless_mbp notest that unzipping a file from a "network" drive is incredibly slow | 03:53 | |
| Jago | ooh, a doom engine port is in devel | 03:53 |
| Flandry | -testing actually | 03:54 |
| Flandry | please test :D | 03:54 |
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| Flandry | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/prboom/2.5.0-svn20091231-0maemo2 | 03:55 |
| Jago | Flandry: well it does work, havent tried any custom WADs tho | 03:55 |
| Jago | Flandry: my only issue is that fullscreen mode is not really | 03:56 |
| Jago | the top bar just stays black | 03:56 |
| Jago | Flandry: if thats your work, is fitzquake-sdl next? :) | 03:58 |
| Jago | (prays) | 03:58 |
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| Flandry | fitzquake i'm not familiar with it | 03:59 |
| Flandry | i saw a lot of ports when looking for one to port | 04:00 |
| Flandry | and that didn't come up | 04:00 |
| Flandry | what's it offerr? | 04:00 |
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| woglinde_ | ph5 still awake? | 04:03 |
| Jago | Flandry: fitzquake-sdl is moderately new (as in 1-2 years old), but fitzquake itself is generally considered the golden standard for quake engine among content creators (I am a mapper myself) | 04:03 |
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| papo | SpeedEvil: Hm this is confusing: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/power/twl4030_bci_battery.c#839 | 04:03 |
| Jago | Flandry: it improves compatibility, bumps up engine limits, fixes some bugs, while retaining the original looks of the engine and without resorting to throwing silly effects at the user that actually look retarded (like darkplaces) | 04:04 |
| Flandry | must be a fork of one of the bigger projects | 04:04 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: the POWER_SUPP case seems to set the percentage in intervals of 25 (mostly), however the output of lshal is more precise | 04:05 |
| Jago | Flandry: it does change the visuals in SOME ways, like it fixes fullbrights (which didnt work in glquake, but did work in softwarequake), adds model animation interpolation, but in general keeps everything faithful to the original | 04:05 |
| Jago | Flandry: fitzquake IS an original project | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: yeah - you're going to need to work out what actually touches hardware - or cached information - when you do lshal | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: then you need to work out what method it's using. | 04:06 |
| papo | hm makes sense | 04:06 |
| Jago | Flandry: if you want to talk to main developer, look at http://www.celephais.net/board/forum.php | 04:06 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: I was just poking around | 04:06 |
| Jago | Flandry: he also frequents IRC on QuakeNet | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: then work back through the kernel to see where it reads from hardware - and if it's being retarded anywhere | 04:06 |
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| crashanddie | wassuuuuup bitches!!! | 04:09 |
| crashanddie | Finally back in the UK Muwhahahahahahahahaha | 04:09 |
| * SpeedEvil locks his door. | 04:09 | |
| crashanddie | oh man | 04:09 |
| crashanddie | worst trip ever | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | The snowy UK. | 04:09 |
| crashanddie | well, better than snowy mountains | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sorry, crashanddie. | 04:09 |
| crashanddie | I paid GBP 850 over the past 4 days | 04:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | :/ | 04:10 |
| crashanddie | just to try and get back to the UK | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | The sort of weather that I really wish I was 9 again. | 04:10 |
| crashanddie | hey GeneralAntilles, what's up mate? | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, sitting here with a stomach full of spaghetti finishing off and waiting for people to get online for MW2. | 04:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | s/off/off my beer/ | 04:11 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: crashanddie, sitting here with a stomach full of spaghetti finishing off my beer and waiting for people to get online for MW2. | 04:11 |
| crashanddie | you on 360, right? | 04:11 |
| papo | SpeedEvil: so I have to look for ioctls? To be honest I have no idea how hal works and where it gathers its information from | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 04:12 |
| crashanddie | shame or I would've joined ya :P | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, yeah, I'd've played it on PC but ALL of my friends have 360s. | 04:12 |
| crashanddie | nha, PS3 ftw | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: so strace lshal - find out where it pokes. and then trace back from that. Or google. | 04:13 |
| papo | ok, thank you | 04:13 |
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| Chiku | what about this http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=s430181 | 04:19 |
| * SpeedEvil can't click on that link without getting cold. | 04:19 | |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders if there is a way to get pidgin to open a link with the keyboard. | 04:19 | |
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| BootDisk | Tired of NIGGERS? Sick of their monkeyshines? Would you rather never have to deal with the fecal-colored beast? Then you are not alone! Join us at Chimpout Forum! http://www.chimpout.com/forum At Chimpout WE ARE NOT WHITE SUPREMACISTS! We welcome anybody who isn't a NIGGER and who HATES NIGGERS! http://www.chimpout.com/forum | 04:46 |
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| corecode_ | haha | 04:49 |
| microlith | there | 04:49 |
| microlith | pidgin on the phone | 04:49 |
| corecode_ | dammit, seems my n900 is not being delivered in time :/ | 04:50 |
| microlith | at least until a more seamless plugin is developed for AIM/MSN | 04:50 |
| corecode_ | jabber + transports? | 04:50 |
| microlith | oh? | 04:50 |
| microlith | haven't looked at jabber | 04:50 |
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| corecode_ | that's at least my plan | 04:50 |
| corecode_ | once the phone arrives | 04:50 |
| corecode_ | ups ground not taking 3 but 6 days? | 04:51 |
| corecode_ | beh. | 04:51 |
| sheepbat | how well does the standard client log chats? | 04:51 |
| corecode_ | i was planing on using a logging extension on the server | 04:51 |
| corecode_ | then i could use a different client someplace else to download the records | 04:51 |
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| sheepbat | hmm... | 04:57 |
| sheepbat | how about encryption? does it do OTR? | 04:57 |
| corecode_ | who it | 04:58 |
| corecode_ | the extension? | 04:58 |
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| sheepbat | sorry, I mean the standard IM client | 04:58 |
| sheepbat | I suppose you wouldn't know | 04:58 |
| gouverneur | sheepbat: no crypting | 04:58 |
| gouverneur | not even mime extensions for emails for signatures etc are supported yet | 04:59 |
| gouverneur | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34563&highlight=crypt | 05:00 |
| corecode | if only it was opensource | 05:00 |
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| sshinobi | I'm having trouble running BosWars. Whenever I try to download it from the Maemo Repository, it returns "Operation Failed." | 05:13 |
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| mikkov | if you are using n900 it's not supposed to work | 05:20 |
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| KamuiN900 | anyone know if theres a way to delete tags from the sharing services? | 05:23 |
| KamuiN900 | i have unwanted tags i created when trying to set up pxelpipe | 05:23 |
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| KenYoung | Does anyone know where I can find a good explanation of how to use the optify script in a package I am building? | 06:54 |
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| lucent | Flandry: T-Mobile support is crippled by ... well they're just bound at the ankles and dangling a few feed under ocean waves | 08:19 |
| lucent | dangling a few feet/metres as you wish | 08:20 |
| KenYoung | I just uploaded my first package for the N900. It's called "orrery", and it displays the night sky (and other astronomical stuff). Can I talk anyone into trying to install it? | 08:21 |
| * lucent grumbles | 08:22 | |
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| Jef91 | evening all | 08:27 |
| * lucent \o/ for Chicagoan | 08:27 | |
| KenYoung | Jef91, Hi! | 08:27 |
| * Jef91 is from Chicago | 08:27 | |
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| Jef91 | maemo is quite this evening | 08:31 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, Yup - I'm looking for a sucker to try out my first package for the N900. I don't suppose I could talk you into it... | 08:32 |
| Jef91 | Whats the package? | 08:33 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, orrery - it displays the night sky, and some other astronomical information. | 08:33 |
| Jef91 | oh, nifty | 08:34 |
| KenYoung | It's a maemo port of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Orrery | 08:34 |
| Jef91 | Is it at least optifyed? | 08:34 |
| KenYoung | Yup. I manually optified it, because I dodn't really understand how the optify script works. | 08:35 |
| Jef91 | Link me, I'll give it a go | 08:35 |
| KenYoung | so to my postinst script optifies. | 08:35 |
| Jef91 | gotta wait for this shit to compile anyways | 08:35 |
| KenYoung | The package can be obtained here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/orrery/ | 08:36 |
| pupnik | KenYoung: we'll get there :) i manually do it too now | 08:36 |
| KenYoung | pupnik, In my case, it's really easy. I just need to move and link one directory. | 08:37 |
| Jef91 | wgetting the deb now Ken :) | 08:39 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, Thanks a bunch for giving it a try. | 08:40 |
| Jef91 | If my N900 blows up you will be hearing from my attorney ;) | 08:40 |
| KenYoung | Well, I have of course tried the package out on my N900. | 08:40 |
| Jef91 | it does portairt mode <3 | 08:41 |
| KenYoung | Yup | 08:41 |
| KenYoung | Tap the screen, you'll get constellations. | 08:41 |
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| KenYoung | Circle an area to xzoom. | 08:42 |
| Jef91 | huh it crashed on me | 08:42 |
| Jef91 | what the command to launch from terminal? | 08:42 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, /usr/bin/orrery -d /usr/share/orrery | 08:42 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, Did it show you anything before it crahsed? I've had it running for days... | 08:43 |
| Jef91 | how do I zoom out? | 08:43 |
| Jef91 | Yea - it crashed when I was changing pages | 08:44 |
| KenYoung | Just press the screen for more than 1/3 second. | 08:44 |
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| KenYoung | Is it shoing you stars, constellations, etc? | 08:44 |
| KenYoung | (sorry about my poor typing) | 08:44 |
| Jef91 | Yep | 08:45 |
| Jef91 | got this in terminal when it closed | 08:45 |
| Jef91 | "config.new: permission denied" | 08:45 |
| Jef91 | well thats all that is in terminal | 08:45 |
| Jef91 | not sure if it is the cause of the dump | 08:45 |
| KenYoung | Rats - that probalby means the configuration file is install with the wrong permissions. | 08:45 |
| Jef91 | Finally got Abiword to compile... lets see if the deb installs on my n900 | 08:46 |
| KenYoung | try chmod 666 /usr/share/orrery/config | 08:46 |
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| Jef91 | I *think* that fixed it | 08:50 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, Actually, I'm afraid it won't. It looks like it's a directory permissions issue. That's a pretty big fault. Thanks for giving it a try. | 08:50 |
| Jef91 | ehh well after I did that it let me flip through all the pages with no dump | 08:51 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, Yeah, but I fear you won't be able to change your location, without changing the permissions or ownership of a directory. | 08:52 |
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| KenYoung | chmod 777 /opt/maemo/usr/share/orrery should fix it. | 08:57 |
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| Jef91 | mmm the optify script appears to work like a charm | 09:06 |
| Jef91 | huh | 09:14 |
| Jef91 | I've hit a recursive issue... | 09:14 |
| Jef91 | I'm trying to install my libgsf-1 package | 09:14 |
| Jef91 | but it tells me it cannot install because it needs to install libgsf-1 | 09:14 |
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| KenYoung | Jef91, Can you use --force... | 09:16 |
| Jef91 | ok wait - I was slightly wrong | 09:18 |
| Jef91 | the package I want to install is called "libgsf" | 09:18 |
| Jef91 | but it wants "libgsf-1" | 09:18 |
| Jef91 | which according to packages.debian.org is the same thing | 09:18 |
| Jef91 | think I should just force it and see what happens? | 09:18 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, I've had pretty good luck doing that in the past. | 09:19 |
| lucent | I've updated the flashlight-applet bug report to describe how to revert to a version that does work | 09:19 |
| lucent | bug #4949 | 09:20 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4949 "Image setted" banner is awkward | 09:20 |
| lucent | wrong bug | 09:20 |
| lucent | that's weird | 09:20 |
| lucent | [#4949] Applet breaks the camera application | 09:20 |
| lucent | I don't know how to link to that here because it says ID=4949 | 09:21 |
| Jef91 | "libgsf-1 is not available, but is referred to by another package" | 09:21 |
| Jef91 | Is there a way I can find what that other package is?... | 09:21 |
| lucent | https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?group_id=1165&atid=4364&func=detail&aid=4949 | 09:23 |
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| Jef91 | garr | 09:27 |
| Jef91 | Scratchbox is annoying the shit outta me | 09:27 |
| KenYoung | Jef91, yeah, it'snot a perfect emulation, by any means. | 09:27 |
| Jef91 | its killing me - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39867 | 09:28 |
| KenYoung | Wish I could help, but I don't use perl. | 09:29 |
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| Jef91 | its a scratch box issue not a perl issue | 09:32 |
| Jef91 | hrm | 09:35 |
| Jef91 | I wonder if I can pass a configure argument | 09:35 |
| Jef91 | so it looks for perl in a different directory | 09:36 |
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| RST38h | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bemZmORkp3Q | 09:39 |
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| voidprayer | Is there any introduction on installing Maemo on Google HTC G2? | 10:43 |
| RST38h | Yes | 10:44 |
| RST38h | It is a nice two-word slide, too | 10:44 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, 'no wai'? :) | 10:46 |
| voidprayer | RST38h: There is? | 10:47 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, it isn't polite to leave now :) | 10:57 |
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| RST38h | voidprayer: the words say YOU CANNOT | 11:00 |
| voidprayer | RST38h: Ahhh. | 11:01 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: Hey, I have been adding fast-forwarding to fMSX | 11:01 |
| voidprayer | RST38h: Well, I really hope to see maemo on some other cellphone. N900 is a little unaffordable... | 11:01 |
| voidprayer | RST38h: thank you. | 11:01 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, :P | 11:03 |
| Milo- | empty battery, but the alarm still went on :) | 11:05 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:07 |
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| RST38h | last update to Maep killed it. Mhm. | 11:11 |
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| pupnik | i keep finding things qwerty has fixed | 11:12 |
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| RST38h | heh | 11:15 |
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| LuciusMare | hi | 11:34 |
| LuciusMare | anybody tried porting imgseek to maemo? | 11:35 |
| LuciusMare | or what image database program simmiliar to imgseek would you recommend me? | 11:35 |
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| LuciusMare | you dont say. | 11:41 |
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| jon1012 | hey | 11:54 |
| jon1012 | someone knows a way to get firefox speedier ? | 11:54 |
| jon1012 | I mpean microb is way faster than ff 1.0 on my n900 | 11:54 |
| arachnist | jon1012: failfox would have to incorporate a whole bunch of little hacks that are in microb | 11:56 |
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| jon1012 | then maybe it's the fault of the os if those hacks are needed ? are those hacks publicly available for ff devs ? | 11:57 |
| cehteh | just use microb and be happy | 11:58 |
| jon1012 | those statements reminds me of ms with ie integration in windows :) | 11:59 |
| jon1012 | event if maemo is way more open | 11:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | jon1012, um, yeah. | 11:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Those "hacks" are actually mobile optimizations. | 11:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some of which can be found in Fennec. | 11:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, the issue here is that your basic desktop Firefox isn't designed to run on a mobile device. | 12:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thus, slow. | 12:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | The reality is that MicroB is the fastest and most usable browser available on the platform right now. | 12:00 |
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| jon1012 | I agree with that | 12:02 |
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| RST38h | BTW, have they pushed Fennec RC2 to the repo? | 12:02 |
| jon1012 | RST38h: 1.0 is released | 12:03 |
| RST38h | 1.0 what? | 12:03 |
| jon1012 | RST38h: no rc, release :) | 12:03 |
| RST38h | Where? | 12:03 |
| RST38h | I do not see it offered from the repo | 12:03 |
| jon1012 | go to fennec website, there is a link that instals their repo in the software manager | 12:04 |
| RST38h | I already have the repo installed. | 12:04 |
| RST38h | No 1.0 though | 12:04 |
| jon1012 | then refresh your sources | 12:05 |
| jon1012 | I have it on my device | 12:05 |
| Wolfie | is fennec better than the default browser? | 12:05 |
| jon1012 | Wolfie: in UI and plugins yeah; way better... in speed no | 12:05 |
| Wolfie | ok | 12:06 |
| cehteh | where is the build/install for n900 i only find n810 | 12:06 |
| gavin | 1.0 isn't released | 12:06 |
| gavin | 1.0 RC2 is released | 12:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | UI is subjective. | 12:06 |
| v2px_ | 1.0.0 IS released | 12:06 |
| gavin | the 1.0.0 you have is 1.0 RC 2 | 12:06 |
| cehteh | link? | 12:06 |
| v2px_ | it's in their repo | 12:07 |
| * gavin works on Fennec | 12:07 | |
| v2px_ | got an upgrade yesterday | 12:07 |
| jon1012 | gavin: packaging error ? | 12:07 |
| gavin | no | 12:07 |
| * RST38h shrugs: will let all these people figure out what exactly they are releasing | 12:07 | |
| v2px_ | but it doesnt work here. complains about my GRE version(?!) | 12:07 |
| gavin | RCs are exactly that - release candidates | 12:07 |
| gavin | if testing works out, no changes are made | 12:07 |
| RST38h | Whatever is the latest version in the repo is what they release | 12:07 |
| RST38h | Right now it is RC1 afaik | 12:07 |
| gavin | RC2 :) | 12:08 |
| gavin | RC2 has a perf fix that makes pageloads faster | 12:08 |
| gavin | (disabling the disk cache) | 12:08 |
| gavin | along with some deb packaging fixes | 12:08 |
| gavin | and some other stuff I'm forgeting | 12:08 |
| gavin | we're likely going to be doing an RC3 | 12:09 |
| cehteh | gavin: so are the RC builds really that slow or is it because some debugging stuff still enabled? | 12:09 |
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| gavin | RC2 should be much faster than RC1 for pageloads | 12:09 |
| RST38h | Still unresponsive to UI though? | 12:10 |
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| v2px_ | 1.0.0: http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/1635/c121eb1fb370453b996210e5f7d8a658.jpg | 12:10 |
| gavin | otherwise, there's no "debugging code" intentionally left over | 12:10 |
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| gavin | v2px_: that's 1.0 RC2 | 12:10 |
| v2px_ | wtf | 12:10 |
| gavin | 1.0 RC3 will also be 1.0.0 | 12:10 |
| gavin | that's just how Mozilla's release process work | 12:10 |
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| gavin | all RCs look like the final version | 12:11 |
| gavin | because they potentially _are_ the final version | 12:11 |
| cehteh | hehe ... nice versioning scheme :P | 12:11 |
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| gavin | (RC1 was labeled 1.0b6pre | 12:12 |
| gavin | because of a packaging error) | 12:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: not fastest - lynx - but... I would be interested to see ff 1.5/2 - I used that not that long ago on a laptop with 128M RAM | 12:17 |
| RST38h | gavin: So, the key question is: will the 1.0 final release be usable? | 12:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, *fully featured | 12:19 |
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| gavin | usability was pushed off to 1.1 | 12:20 |
| wazd | hello maemo | 12:20 |
| * SpeedEvil tries to remember critical features missing from 2.0 - and comes up blank | 12:20 | |
| pupnik | "I am fully functional..." -Data | 12:20 |
| gavin | RST38h: that sounds awfully lot like a loaded question :) | 12:21 |
| RST38h | gavin: In a way, yes | 12:21 |
| gavin | 1.0 RC2 is plenty usable for me | 12:21 |
| RST38h | gavin: But it is also a practical question | 12:21 |
| gavin | not as fast as it could be, and not always responsive during page load | 12:21 |
| RST38h | gavin: I have been trying to use Fennec since b5 | 12:21 |
| pupnik | //want ftpupload for camera app | 12:21 |
| Chiku | I tried zimbra on microB, so slow,... does it mean on ff will slower? | 12:22 |
| pupnik | taking tourist pics of mass effect atm | 12:22 |
| RST38h | gavin: It is absolutely awful in terms of UI response | 12:22 |
| gavin | Chiku: try it out! | 12:22 |
| RST38h | gavin: Feels stuck most of the time | 12:22 |
| Chiku | zimbra ajax mode | 12:22 |
| RST38h | gavin: So, I usually start it up, use it for ~5 minutes, then go back to MicroB | 12:22 |
| v2px_ | my rootfs is full... again D: | 12:22 |
| RST38h | gavin: Thus is my question: will the 1.0final be responsive enough to beocme usable? | 12:23 |
| Chiku | read comment not make me try ff | 12:23 |
| Chiku | if browser fully features looks like connected with 16bps | 12:24 |
| Chiku | 16kbps | 12:24 |
| gavin | RST38h: have you tried RC2 ? | 12:25 |
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| RST38h | gavin: Not yet offered from the repo | 12:25 |
| gavin | which repo? | 12:25 |
| RST38h | fennec repo | 12:26 |
| wazd | konttori_nokia: around? | 12:26 |
| gavin | http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/candidates/1.0rc1-candidates/repos/1.9.2_multi/1.9.2_multi.install | 12:26 |
| gavin | it's available from the fennec repo | 12:26 |
| RST38h | hmm..ok, let me retry | 12:26 |
| gavin | doh, sorry | 12:26 |
| gavin | wrong link | 12:26 |
| gavin | http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/candidates/1.0rc2-candidates/repos/1.9.2_multi/1.9.2_multi.install | 12:27 |
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| * gavin is actually not sure how updates from previous repos/builds work | 12:28 | |
| gavin | that's the latest, anyways | 12:28 |
| RST38h | no, that is just an install file | 12:28 |
| gavin | that points to a repo | 12:28 |
| gavin | http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/candidates/1.0rc2-candidates/repos/1.9.2_multi/dists/ | 12:28 |
| RST38h | I will retry with the app manager | 12:28 |
| RST38h | Something is wrong, my HAM may be misconfigured | 12:29 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 12:29 | |
| gavin | for RC3 we're considering some panning/zooming fixes, autocomplete speed improvements, and some responsiveness tweaks | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | my n900 can't find any cellular operators | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | gavin: would you say 'searching for cellular operators' or 'searching for cellular networks'? | 12:30 |
| RST38h | If autocomplete still goes through a SQL queries, then it may be a battle lost when started | 12:30 |
| gavin | the latter | 12:30 |
| wazd | searching for networks | 12:30 |
| xorAxAx | maybe the unions plugin of mce disallowed working on sundays, timeless_mbp? | 12:30 |
| wazd | without cellular | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: sorry, cellular needs to be specified | 12:30 |
| xorAxAx | nobody could check, mce is not open :) | 12:31 |
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| * RST38h remembers how he absolutely, totally, badly hates Firefox's "awesome" URL bar | 12:31 | |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise you would confuse it w/ searching for wifi networks | 12:31 |
| gavin | RST38h: why? | 12:31 |
| * wazd hates conversation app | 12:31 | |
| RST38h | gavin: You type something in it, it suddenly gets stuck. For seconds. | 12:31 |
| RST38h | gavin: Doing god knows what. | 12:32 |
| gavin | is your profile NFS mounted? | 12:32 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 12:32 | |
| RST38h | gavin: Of course not. Local. | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | gavin: have you run into people actually using nfs mounted profiles w/ fennec? | 12:32 |
| gavin | we've made a bunch of improvements to it in 3.6, you should see if they've helped if you haven't already | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | .. that'd be really depressing | 12:32 |
| RST38h | gavin: deleting database files form your profile helps, for the next few weeks | 12:32 |
| gavin | I'm assuming RST38h is referring to his use of it on desktop firefox | 12:32 |
| RST38h | gavin: of course | 12:33 |
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| lardman | morniung | 12:33 |
| Chiku | if you use extra-devel repo, better to disable extras and extras-testing? or you still need those ? | 12:33 |
| lardman | morning even | 12:33 |
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| wazd | lardman: hey | 12:33 |
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| lardman | hi wazd | 12:33 |
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| lardman | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7742 seems a bit more important and severe than low ans normal respectively, what do other PR1.1. users think? | 12:34 |
| povbot` | Bug 7742: Apps depending on libqt4-phonon won't install on 2.2009.51-1 | 12:34 |
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| RST38h | gavin: Ok, I think I found the problem with repo setup ("extras" component instead of the "release") | 12:35 |
| RST38h | Will update to RC2 and test momentarily | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | "cellular network's service area" or "cellular operator's service area"? | 12:36 |
| RST38h | gavin: As to that "awesome" (sic) urlbar, I think you simply execute sqlite query of some kind and assume it will return momentarily. It does not. Deleting sqlite database of visited URLs "fixes" things for a short while, until the sqlite database grows again and sqlite becomes sluggish | 12:37 |
| jon1012 | lardman: bwah who uses qt anyway ? ;) | 12:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: iirc the database isn't supposed to be on the main thread anymore | 12:37 |
| RST38h | gavin: One way to fix it would be to avoid sqlite.. Another way would be to avoid calling sqlite in the middle of user input | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: but out of curiosity, which file system are you using? | 12:38 |
| gavin | RST38h: people have been investigating and fixing sqlite-related performance issues with the autocomplete code regularly | 12:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: some form of a database is needed for history, always has been, in every browser | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | sqlite isn't the problem, it just happens to have a brand name | 12:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | and we happen to use it a bit more | 12:39 |
| gavin | the autocomplete queries use asynchronous IO in 3.6, for example | 12:39 |
| gavin | have you tried 3.6? | 12:39 |
| * RST38h uses plain WinXP with NTFS | 12:40 | |
| RST38h | No NFS. No remote filesystems | 12:40 |
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| RST38h | Ubuntu with ext3 behaves the same | 12:41 |
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| RST38h | Hmm...still no Fennec RC2 | 12:42 |
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| smhar | does the N900 include a sync program to sync contacts and calendar entries with linux? | 12:44 |
| xorAxAx | smhar: yes, contacts | 12:44 |
| xorAxAx | not the calendar, though | 12:44 |
| smhar | xorAxAx, with what program? | 12:44 |
| xorAxAx | in both casesyou need software on linux | 12:45 |
| xorAxAx | smhar: opensync on linux + the syncml feature | 12:45 |
| smhar | it is strange that it run linux and the desktop suite is for windows, with the linux support limited to contacts only! | 12:48 |
| [Tycho] | :) | 12:48 |
| Arkenoi | I installed old Metromap directly from .deb and Xarchiver from mymaemo repository; now i see both as "new versions" with every software update, the second one updates every time and the first one tries and fails, what's the reason? | 12:51 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: the repository is screwed up? | 12:52 |
| RST38h | have you checked version numbers? and failure reasons? | 12:52 |
| lardman | Arkenoi: indeed, is there a newer version in the extras-* repo? | 12:53 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: there is no failure for second one | 12:53 |
| RST38h | Oh yesss: http://design.fr/product-design/cheers-to-finger-power/ | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: What does the first one failure reason say? | 12:54 |
| Arkenoi | lardman: none of those are available from extras-* | 12:54 |
| lardman | Arkenoi: out of interest, where did the metromap come from in the first place? I can add patches to the Garage project and push it to extras-* in the conventional way | 12:54 |
| lardman | oh ok | 12:54 |
| timeless_mbp | smhar: it isn't at all strange. it is unfortunate, and rather depressing` | 12:54 |
| Arkenoi | lardman: i just downloaded .deb from the garage | 12:54 |
| timeless_mbp | smhar: consider that the people working on the n900 work on it as their full time job | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Fennec is indeed marked as 1.0.0 not as RC2 | 12:55 |
| lardman | I know the Garage stuff is out of date, I really need to get some interested people involved in updating it again | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | having to write another fulll time application for linux that would do syncing would require them to have two full time jobs | 12:55 |
| lardman | Arkenoi: and app manager tells you there are updated versions whenever you run it now? | 12:55 |
| lardman | strange | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | the suite for windows is not a one off designed for the n900, it's something that perhaps happens to work w/ the n900 and is written by some other team | 12:55 |
| timeless_mbp | that other team looks at the market and says "most people would benefit from us doing this one product, so that's what we'll do" | 12:56 |
| * timeless_mbp is still waiting for a non lame sync solution for OS X | 12:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | (which all things considered is more important than a solution for Linux) | 12:56 |
| Arkenoi | lardman: yes | 12:56 |
| lardman | Arkenoi: and if you try to install this update it talks about, what happens? | 12:57 |
| Arkenoi | lardman: but obviously fails to download it as there is not, actually | 12:57 |
| lardman | let me do some testing, sounds like a possible HAM bug | 12:57 |
| lardman | Arkenoi: does metromap work ok for you out of interest? | 12:58 |
| lardman | as I can push a version to extras-* | 12:58 |
| Arkenoi | lardman: route planning works with minor UI glitches, "the big map" is not shown | 12:58 |
| Arkenoi | lardman: "metromap cannot be updated" or something and download size is not present | 12:59 |
| lardman | hmm, I patched the code long ago and then joined the project to push my updates, but I have a feeling I never did (as I didn't know until a few weeks ago I had access!) | 12:59 |
| RST38h | a'ok, trying fennec rc2 | 12:59 |
| RST38h | Showed up "loading" then disappeared completely, cpu at 100% | 13:00 |
| RST38h | Showed up the UI | 13:00 |
| RST38h | Appears to be stuck | 13:00 |
| RST38h | Ah, after about 10 seconds showed the bookmarks | 13:00 |
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| RST38h | Loaded tmo, faster than usual too | 13:01 |
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| RST38h | Scrolling works, once you wait for about 15-20 seconds for all the js to stop running | 13:02 |
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| red | meh, my pc C: drive is running out of diskspace, anyone know if its a viable option to mount another partition as a "folder" under Program Files so I'd still have all my software installed there? | 13:02 |
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| red | just a general pc question :) | 13:02 |
| lardman | red: you can have a Program Files folder on a different drive | 13:02 |
| red | I know, but _some_ applications don't like it | 13:02 |
| lardman | hmm, really | 13:03 |
| RST38h | Clicked on UserCP, Fennec is stuck again | 13:03 |
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| red | so potentially to avoid that and to have them neatly under one folder, I could basicly mount a partition there since thats easy | 13:03 |
| red | and then just hide the drive from my computer | 13:03 |
| RST38h | Scrolling through a tmo thread is unusable, gets stuck like hell | 13:03 |
| RST38h | Selecting a page is also unusable, you click the digit, it get stuck not providing any feedback | 13:04 |
| red | RST38h: for me fennec crashed after I clicked my 1st imported bookmark | 13:04 |
| red | then I tried again three times with different bookmarks and uninstalled | 13:04 |
| Arkenoi | will uqm-joydev dependancy ever be fixed? | 13:04 |
| RST38h | Every now and then it makes series of clicks, apparently finger-touch events being stuck with CPU at 100% | 13:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | red: ntfs supports junctions | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | and other things | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | so roughly 'yes' | 13:05 |
| RST38h | gavin: Ok, RC2 is still unusable, sorry | 13:05 |
| gavin | what specifically makes it unusable? | 13:06 |
| red | guess I'll go ahead and do it | 13:06 |
| RST38h | Hangs by itself, hangs the rest of the system with it (i.e. you cannot just switch to another app and do something else) | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | Directory of C:\ProgramData\dbg | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | 01/08/2010 09:54 PM <DIR> . | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | 01/08/2010 09:54 PM <DIR> .. | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | 07/20/2009 10:15 PM <DIR> src | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | 07/10/2009 03:27 AM <JUNCTION> sym [C:\symbols] | 13:06 |
| red | didn't realize Windows 7 would end up hogging this much diskspace, made a 40Gig for it and program files | 13:06 |
| red | my docs/downloads on different disk alltogether | 13:06 |
| lardman | red: what sort of stuff doesn't like not being on C: ? | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | red: WinSxS is expensive | 13:07 |
| RST38h | gavin: When the frustrated user starts clicking on the screen, it makes things much much worse | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | my w7 is 60gb | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | or rather on a 60gb disk | 13:07 |
| red | basicly I only have Win 7 & Program Files on C:/ | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | 23gb used | 13:07 |
| RST38h | gavin: As Fennec finishes processing previous action (takes dozens of seconds sometimes, it seems) and starts processing those clicks one by one | 13:07 |
| red | temp/downloads/pagefile on one drive | 13:07 |
| red | and then one drive for media, one for docs and games | 13:07 |
| RST38h | Shit, it is totally stuck now. | 13:08 |
| red | <- control freak | 13:08 |
| * RST38h SSHs to his N900 to kill FennecRC2 | 13:08 | |
| red | Windows itself eating up 11Gigs, program files nearly 25 | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | red: note that my volume is compressed | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | red: do you have windirstat? | 13:08 |
| RST38h | AHAAA! "Firefox is not responding. Close application?" | 13:09 |
| RST38h | Took a few minutes though | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: please use ntsd -p {pid-of-firefox} | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | once you've done that, lemme know | 13:09 |
| RST38h | It is dead. Next time I run Fennec, will let you know. | 13:10 |
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| lardman | http://openspace.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/openspace/ looks interesting | 13:17 |
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| RST38h | Hmm..Interesting | 13:17 |
| RST38h | Fennec uses ~12% CPU even if it is not doing anything | 13:17 |
| RST38h | No, wrong | 13:18 |
| lardman | is fennec the new firefox browser which will soon be released, or some other branch? | 13:18 |
| RST38h | same | 13:18 |
| lardman | ok | 13:18 |
| RST38h | I am still calling it Fennec as it is so much different from Firefox proper | 13:18 |
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| RST38h | Just trying to confirm that RC2 is finally usable, not having much luck =( | 13:19 |
| arachnist | changing the name reduced the bloat by 70% ;) | 13:19 |
| RST38h | Heh, once you start about:config, it does not let you go back to the previous page in history and does not show about:config in history either | 13:20 |
| * RST38h tries LiveJournal, out of morbid curiosity | 13:20 | |
| RST38h | It zooms in seemingly on random...You try clicking some button or link, and it suddenly zooms in on you =) | 13:22 |
| lardman | bbiab | 13:23 |
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| RST38h | Ok, LiveJournal is completely stuck, cannot scroll, cannot switch away, CPU at 100% for several minutes | 13:23 |
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| RST38h | No way this is release quality :( | 13:24 |
| arachnist | fennec? | 13:25 |
| arachnist | well | 13:25 |
| RST38h | yea | 13:25 |
| RST38h | Takes about 30 seconds just to kill it =) | 13:25 |
| * arachnist never considered firefox a "release quality" software | 13:25 | |
| RST38h | desktop version works pretty well | 13:25 |
| RST38h | But I am afraid these guys somewhat overestimated resources available on N900 :) | 13:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: ntsd is for windows, not maemo | 13:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | https://developer.mozilla.org/en/How_to_get_a_stacktrace_with_WinDbg | 13:44 |
| * RST38h not sure why he should get a stacktrace of wondows firefox | 13:45 | |
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| cehteh | RST38h: fennec is the browser of the future :) | 13:48 |
| cehteh | .. when smartphones have 2GB ram and 2Ghz dual processors | 13:49 |
| RST38h | cehteh: The Atom-based Windows-running future, I am sure? | 13:49 |
| El_Angelo | how can you force the ovi maps app to download maps for a whole region? | 13:49 |
| cehteh | *cough* | 13:49 |
| RST38h | 13:49 | |
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| El_Angelo | not maemo enough? | 13:50 |
| cehteh | should i have some faith in tear? | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: i'm pretty sure you complained that firefox on windows hung | 13:50 |
| cehteh | didnt really used it, mostly i use microb .. but tear looks at least 2nd best | 13:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | El_Angelo: Nokia Map Downloader for Windows :) | 13:50 |
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| lardman | re | 13:51 |
| RST38h | No. I complained that the "awesome bar" in WIndows randomly hangs for seconds at a time when you type. | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: have you seen the ram specs for Google's Nexus? | 13:51 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: right, well, attach then | 13:51 |
| lardman | RST38h: need to clear the db? | 13:51 |
| RST38h | I also complained that Fennec on Maemo hangs for dozens of seconds at a time, all the time | 13:51 |
| El_Angelo | crap.... windows | 13:52 |
| RST38h | lardman: Yea, once I delete the db it all goes backt o normal for the next 2-3 weeks | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: if you're catching it hanging, you can get a stack or mini profile and we can look into it | 13:52 |
| timeless_mbp | if you aren't interested, then, well... i'd just as soon you not complain about it here. | 13:52 |
| El_Angelo | does it work on wine? | 13:52 |
| RST38h | Next time I need your advice, I will ask specifically, thanks. | 13:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | El_Angelo: dunno, let us know :) | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: next time, don't complain about non maemo software, thanks. | 13:53 |
| lardman | anyone know about that SMS from the command line business? | 13:53 |
| RST38h | mmm? | 13:53 |
| lardman | and also any Nokias here with something to do with hildon-mime? | 13:53 |
| lardman | ;) | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: does cursing it count? :) | 13:54 |
| lardman | lol | 13:54 |
| lardman | seems to work ok for me, but not for sms: | 13:54 |
| lardman | and also doesn't handle smsto: | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | hildon-mime is a general dispatch | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | besides mime is for file types | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | sms: and smsto: are protocols | 13:55 |
| lcukx200 | hey | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | they shouldn't be handled by mime types | 13:55 |
| * lcukx200 waves | 13:55 | |
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| timeless_mbp | x200 ?? | 13:55 |
| lcukx200 | yeah | 13:55 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Lenovo? =) | 13:55 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: the open_uri fn should handle all sorts | 13:55 |
| lcukx200 | lenovo | 13:55 |
| RST38h | umgh | 13:55 |
| lcukn900 | and n900 | 13:55 |
| RST38h | mate! | 13:56 |
| * lcukx200 is on safari | 13:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: so, in general, it's supposed to be generic dispatch | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | if someone registers for a 'foo:' protocol,, they should get it. | 13:56 |
| RST38h | Funny how download activity from OS2008 repos slowed down | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | if no one registers for 'foo:', it's unlikely to work particularly well | 13:56 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: market saturation? | 13:56 |
| lcukx200 | RST38h, activity bursts come in waves | 13:56 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: yep | 13:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: True, and it is not exactly the most active time of the year | 13:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | everyone's too busy @CES :) | 13:57 |
| lcukx200 | timeless, you in .hel next week? | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 13:57 |
| lcukx200 | adult expo more like lol | 13:57 |
| lcukx200 | cool, beers? | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | something like that can be arranged | 13:58 |
| RST38h | lcuk: is there a difference? ;) | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: there's toys and then there's toys | 13:58 |
| lcukx200 | cool, talk to jussi m and sampo and see who else is up for it | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | so, not really | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | both make grown men salivate | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | or perhaps, men who never really grew up? | 13:58 |
| lardman | in which case does anyone know where I should look to work out what format the sms: data should take to be accepted by libhildonmime's open_uri() fn? | 14:00 |
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| LuciusMare | hi where are the app icons stored? | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | LuciusMare: /usr/share/icons/ or something | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | they're trivial to find | 14:00 |
| timeless_mbp | just look at a .desktop file | 14:00 |
| LuciusMare | that bring me to another question | 14:01 |
| LuciusMare | where is my desktop? | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | either usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon or usr/share/icons/hildon/scalable/hildon | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | (one is n900, one is probably older) | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | what do you mean 'desktop' | 14:01 |
| timeless_mbp | the desktop is virtual, so it's mostly in /var/lib/gconf/ | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | (to the extent that it's "anywhere" at all...) | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | if you mean "where is the stuff i can see in File Manager or a file picker" | 14:02 |
| timeless_mbp | that's ~/MyDocs/ | 14:02 |
| LuciusMare | i know | 14:03 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if making stylii and selling them for less than 10€/g of polypropylene wouldn't be better than printing dollars | 14:03 | |
| LuciusMare | i mean the .desktop files | 14:03 |
| LuciusMare | or so | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | /usr/share/applications/ | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | depends on which kind | 14:03 |
| LuciusMare | hm | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | control panel items are in ./hildon-control-panel/ | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | other ones live in other parts of that tree | 14:03 |
| timeless_mbp | they're all reasonably well named | 14:03 |
| lardman | but those aren't necessarily on the desktop | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | the desktop as i said is /var/lib/gconf/ somewhere | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | because it's purely virtual | 14:04 |
| LuciusMare | and, how can i access these "hidden" files through the default file select prompt? it shows only mydocs and memorycard | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | .desktop is roughly .lnk.template | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | LuciusMare: you don't. | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | unless you create a symlink | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | which is probably a bad idea | 14:05 |
| timeless_mbp | there's an xterm included in the device at no extra charge | 14:05 |
| timeless_mbp | besides the apps you see in maemo don't generally run as root | 14:05 |
| LuciusMare | meh | 14:05 |
| lcukx200 | lardman, speak to frals | 14:05 |
| lardman | what do you want to achieve? | 14:05 |
| timeless_mbp | and the paths we've mentioned above aren't owned by user | 14:05 |
| frals | sup? | 14:05 |
| lardman | lcukx200: k, thanks | 14:05 |
| timeless_mbp | so you couldn't really do much useful | 14:05 |
| lcukx200 | he may very well have come across lots of sms info during mms stuff | 14:05 |
| lardman | frals: sending SMS | 14:05 |
| lcukx200 | lol | 14:06 |
| * lcukx200 speaks of the devil | 14:06 | |
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| timeless_mbp | better than 'to' :) | 14:06 |
| lcukx200 | :D | 14:06 |
| lcukx200 | indeed | 14:06 |
| frals | well all i know pretty much about sms specific stuff is that python script someone posted to send sms from commandline | 14:07 |
| lcukx200 | i still dunno if ive done the right thing, ive driven to my mates and hoping i can get back when its time to | 14:07 |
| * lcukx200 hopes it doesnt snow | 14:07 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: in hel? | 14:07 |
| timeless_mbp | don't worry, our snow is here to stay | 14:07 |
| lcukx200 | nahh in .uk | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | there's an ice sculpture that went up sometime a few weeks ago | 14:08 |
| lcukx200 | im in winsford | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | it's still here now :) | 14:08 |
| lardman | frals: ok, got that, am still hoping I can work out how open_uri() works | 14:08 |
| lcukx200 | timeless, neat! | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a video stream of the sculpture from when it first went up if you want to see it | 14:08 |
| lcukx200 | i know there its expected, so cars are prepared, but us wusses in the uk stick got our slick summer tyres on | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | (not where it's living today, but ..) | 14:08 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: yeah | 14:09 |
| lcukx200 | so the sculture moved? :D | 14:09 |
| * lardman gets out the tungsten carbide type spikes | 14:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, it was at the ice rink next to the central railway station | 14:09 |
| timeless_mbp | you know, the one that floaded | 14:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and later had a train decide to attack a hotel conference room | 14:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | (the station has been really attention hungry of late) | 14:10 |
| timeless_mbp | s/floaded/flooded/ | 14:10 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 14:10 | |
| sp3000 | it's like a floaty flooding? | 14:10 |
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| sp3000 | also, it's a fricking winter postcard over here | 14:10 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukn900: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6af_1263062691 | 14:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | sp3000: hey, does that load on your n900? :) | 14:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: ttp://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6af_1263062691 | 14:14 |
| LuciusMare | okay, i have problems with mbarcode - no matter what i do, it fails to open the file - "error opening file" | 14:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | no fair, asking and running... | 14:15 |
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| lcukx200 | timeless, o_O looks like my street | 14:16 |
| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: sure, a bit slideshowy at points | 14:17 |
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| lcukx200 | did you see the one where the ppl jumped out of car in similar thing whilst it was still moving | 14:17 |
| timeless_mbp | nope | 14:18 |
| lardman | LuciusMare_away: Yep, I'm not sure if that's supposed to work yet | 14:18 |
| lcukx200 | http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbsen8_car-ice-skating-uk-lucky-accident-p_fun | 14:18 |
| sp3000 | oh, it plays better when you're no longer installing fennec at the same time ;) | 14:18 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 14:20 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: nice | 14:21 |
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| RST38h | Ok. How the hell do I add the network search to the FBRreader? =( | 14:34 |
| RST38h | derf: Around? | 14:34 |
| sp3000 | well, fine, it isn't snowing... http://www.flickr.com/photos/kittenpurrree/4262401150/ | 14:34 |
| BirdFlew | ah, this is fantastic. irc from the terminal of my shiny new n900 :-D greetings all | 14:34 |
| ifreq | greets | 14:35 |
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| LuciusMare_away | greets | 14:36 |
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| lcukx200 | BirdFlew, hola! | 14:38 |
| lcukx200 | sp3000, how cold is it there | 14:38 |
| sp3000 | http://outside.hut.fi/week.html is a few km away | 14:39 |
| BirdFlew | trying to install xchat but it has missing dependencies. how do i install the needed packages? | 14:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | BirdFlew: :) | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | BirdFlew: I just installed from the app-manager, and it just worked | 14:40 |
| BirdFlew | am i perhaps missing a repository? | 14:41 |
| lcukx200 | sp3000, that graph makes me cold just looking at it | 14:41 |
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| * lcukx200 makes mental note to buy extra thermals | 14:42 | |
| Muhvi | BirdFlew, you should have maemo development repository added if you have installed xchat | 14:42 |
| Muhvi | i added it, installet xchat => everything worked fine | 14:42 |
| sp3000 | grumble | 14:44 |
| * sp3000 re-crops | 14:44 | |
| sp3000 | oh you need pro to replace things, how annoying | 14:44 |
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| BirdFlew | that's extras-devel, yeah? | 14:46 |
| slonopotamus | err | 14:46 |
| slonopotamus | no unzip for fremantle? | 14:46 |
| Muhvi | BirdFlew, yeah | 14:46 |
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| BirdFlew | it shows up in the application list but when i try to install it says i'm missing maemo-select-menu-location | 14:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: i've installed it from somewhere | 14:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | sp3000: The photo you were looking for has been deleted. | 14:50 |
| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: yeah flickr doesn't feel I'm pro enough to replace things I want to re-crop slightly, so http://www.flickr.com/photos/kittenpurrree/4261665133 | 14:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | BirdFlew: that's a diabloism | 14:52 |
| sp3000 | there was an annoying twig on the right that I didn't notice the first time on the smaller screen :) | 14:52 |
| timeless_mbp | they'll need to repackage w/o that | 14:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4259431966/ | 14:53 |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, that's really annoying :( | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | to follow the meme of today | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I love the sky | 14:53 |
| BirdFlew | what's diablo? i've seen that name pop up a bit in my attempt to get xchat working | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | BirdFlew: Maemo 4.1 | 14:54 |
| BirdFlew | ah | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | google or wiki.maemo.org will explain | 14:54 |
| lcukx200 | holdon, RST38h you repackaged fremantle xchat didnt you? | 14:54 |
| BirdFlew | is there an xchat version for freemantle? | 14:54 |
| lcukx200 | BirdFlew, i think you have wrong repo perhaps | 14:54 |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, ah, it's in -devel | 14:54 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yes. | 14:55 |
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| N900evil | xchat-rst38ftw | 14:56 |
| BirdFlew | yeah i added a few from gronmayer.com/it for the older maemo versions | 14:56 |
| N900evil | would be awesome with scrolly and variable height input window. | 14:57 |
| N900evil | more awesome | 14:57 |
| sp3000 | so I have an album called bugs on share.ovi | 14:58 |
| sp3000 | I click on this share button on the page to see what it looks like mostly | 14:58 |
| sp3000 | it goes "Check out bugs's album on Ovi by Nokia" at me | 14:58 |
| sp3000 | doh >_< | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | nice | 14:58 |
| sp3000 | but that's fine, this is exactly the kind of thing the bugs album is for :) | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 14:59 |
| lcukx200 | BirdFlew, expect problems then. maemo.org repositories are pretty much all you need for now (unless doing dev work with people/companies from elsewhere) | 14:59 |
| BirdFlew | yeah i anticipated that it might not be smooth sailing, but was curious as to what was available | 15:00 |
| lcukx200 | maemo extras, maemo extras testing, maemo extras devel. decreasing levels of stability | 15:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | + a couple of private repos, like mine :) | 15:08 |
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| Termana | pretty much the stability is in the same order that lcuk typed it. Was that on purpose lcuk? | 15:11 |
| lcukx200 | timeless, that was exactly what the (unless ..) bit was for | 15:13 |
| lcukx200 | Termana, of course | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | Termana: we don't try to give people bad experiences | 15:13 |
| timeless_mbp | we aren't particularly cruel :) | 15:13 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes BirdFlew | 15:15 | |
| BirdFlew | in fact you're quite the opposite of cruel, the maemo community is very helpful and supportive. i'm impressed | 15:16 |
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| sp3000 | http://share.ovi.com/media/kittenpurrree.bugs/kittenpurrree.10006 there we go :) | 15:19 |
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| BirdFlew | are there any simple encryption programs for maemo? truecrypt is overkill for my purposes, i just need to encrypt a couple of small plaintext files | 15:20 |
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| sp3000 | hmm, apparently you have to be logged out for it to fail | 15:21 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: do you have easy access to my quote? | 15:22 |
| sp3000 | a what? | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | got it | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | Termana: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0104/1224261599685.html | 15:22 |
| timeless_mbp | > The prize for best staff notice goes to Nokia in its staff car park in Peru. Over each parking space it says: “It is me who arrives here, early in the morning, hoping to change the world.” | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i framed that and it's now hanging over my desk @Nokia :) | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | > Finally, an award for the year’s top cliche, which goes to “the elephant in the room”. In the last year there has scarcely been a meeting room anywhere in which an elephant has not pitched up at some point. | 15:23 |
| timeless_mbp | > In leading newspapers and journals alone, last year 3,700 elephants were reported as being in rooms, while in 2000 the number was only 175. If one had to sum up 2009 in one sentence, it was the year in which elephants bred like rabbits. – Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2010 | 15:23 |
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| Termana | timeless_mbp: "@Nokia" - I didn't know you worked at Nokia. Though I guess its a likely thing and theres probably a couple more people that work at Nokia here, given the fact of what the room is about. | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo.org/profile/list or something | 15:25 |
| timeless_mbp | we supposedly identify ourselves | 15:25 |
| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: ah, great. if I go to someone else's album while logged in, it suggests "Check out <me>'s album ..." where <me> is me and, again, not the author of the album | 15:26 |
| * timeless_mbp goes to learn how getprocaddress works | 15:26 | |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: awesome | 15:26 |
| sp3000 | then again, I don't think I've ever seen evidence of anyone having used this feature on any site | 15:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | it could be worse | 15:27 |
| timeless_mbp | you could be learning about KERNELBASE!_imp__LdrGetProcedureAddress | 15:27 |
| pupnik | why is that bad? | 15:28 |
| * SpeedEvil is learning about ioctls. | 15:28 | |
| sp3000 | there are imps in your kernelbase? | 15:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: you win, you can have my sympathies | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: there are even snaps! | 15:31 |
| timeless_mbp | http://blog.threatfire.com/2008/03/snaps-crackle-pops-or-get-your-wheatys.html | 15:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | timeless: trying to work out what the bme thingy does | 15:31 |
| Hukka | zaheer_: I think everything is now working with Qt/gst/python | 15:31 |
| Hukka | Phew, finally | 15:31 |
| timeless_mbp | bme = battery management entity | 15:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd hope it's an entity that manages my battery ;-) | 15:32 |
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| * timeless_mbp goes back to imps and snaps | 15:32 | |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: I'd gotten that far :) | 15:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, snaps are cool | 15:34 |
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| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: they probably started with <actor> wants to share an album ... | 15:34 |
| sp3000 | and then went to check out <actor>'s album ... without noticing it's a different party | 15:35 |
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| RedPenguin | Hello all | 15:35 |
| BirdFlew | g'day RedPenguin | 15:35 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 15:35 | |
| * sp3000 fills another "reporting a bug" form on ovi | 15:35 | |
| RedPenguin | When I came in here before, I was told to use dd to backup my N810 to external Mini-SD, but when using dd if=/dev/mtdblock4..... it throws dd: /dev/mtdblock4: Input/output error | 15:36 |
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| pupnik | cat /proc/partitions shows you existing devices available for reading RedPenguin | 15:37 |
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| pupnik | also some guides suggest options conv=sync,noerror for hard drive backuop -dunno if that applies to flash | 15:38 |
| RedPenguin | it shows sda - sda6 | 15:38 |
| RedPenguin | hold on | 15:38 |
| pupnik | sounds like you executed dd on a pc | 15:39 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, half my Internets have disappeared | 15:39 |
| RedPenguin | Yea, I realize that after, was using the wrong terminal window | 15:39 |
| RedPenguin | Now I'm seeing the proper mtd, and mmc | 15:39 |
| pupnik | hmm no ideas here | 15:39 |
| RedPenguin | Well dd was on the Nokia but cat /proc/partitions I accidentally ran at first on Ubuntu | 15:40 |
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| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: ...submitted, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/696039 | 15:44 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: :) | 15:45 |
| sp3000 | well, submitted, expect I get a "We've encountered an error." page in response to submitting it | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | .... | 15:45 |
| sp3000 | "no shit" | 15:45 |
| * corecode is sad about his phone not being delivered in time | 15:46 | |
| RedPenguin | Well one forum thread http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=17003 is pointing to having bad flash blocks for this error | 15:47 |
| * sp3000 finds the problem and manages to submit it | 15:48 | |
| sp3000 | of course now I have to submit another bit for that bug :) | 15:48 |
| frals | need testers for http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fapn/0.2, pretty please with sugar on top | 15:50 |
| timeless_mbp | RedPenguin: roughly, you shouldn't use dd to dump mtd :) | 15:50 |
| timeless_mbp | fanoush suggests nanddump ... | 15:50 |
| RedPenguin | I seen that in one thread, thought seems there are so many contradicting threads it's hard to see what's what on proper backup | 15:51 |
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| RedPenguin | nvm, that was a tool with a similar name on that thread | 15:53 |
| RedPenguin | I maybe don't have bad blocks, because until the previous thread, my dmesg does not say at all, "bad eraseblock" | 15:53 |
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| BirdFlew | can the n900 wifi be put into monitor mode? | 16:01 |
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| RedPenguin | Not sure if this helps, from dragorn seemed to state no, or if so, extremely instable | 16:03 |
| RedPenguin | dragorn from the Kismet project that is | 16:03 |
| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: gmail thinks andre is a spammer :( | 16:04 |
| RedPenguin | I know just playing with Kismet on the N810, caused the drivers to 100% crash after a while | 16:04 |
| sp3000 | in my latest spam page, there were two msgs from him on -community | 16:04 |
| sp3000 | and more on the second page | 16:07 |
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| sp3000 | etc. | 16:09 |
| angasule | I can't play ogg theora files :( | 16:10 |
| kulve | angasule: with Ogg Support installed? | 16:11 |
| angasule | kulve: yes, which program takes advantage of it? I've tried canola, mplaye and one other I can't remember | 16:15 |
| kulve | angasule: mplayer doesn't. I'm not sure about Canola. But the built-in Media Player can use it | 16:15 |
| kulve | but the performance isn't great as it's sw decoding only, no hw acceleration | 16:16 |
| angasule | hmm, what's the best video codec and settings to use on the n810? | 16:17 |
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| angasule | I have a bunch of DebConf videos to watch in ogg theora | 16:17 |
| kulve | oh, n810 | 16:17 |
| kulve | there are converters that have good settings for n810, iirc | 16:18 |
| felipec | angasule: for N810 mpeg4 is better | 16:18 |
| kulve | angasule: http://maemo.org/downloads/PC/ | 16:19 |
| kulve | that might be worth a try | 16:19 |
| angasule | oh? I was avoiding it, I guess it's done in HW? | 16:19 |
| felipec | angasule: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/manuals/3-x/transcoding_how-to/ | 16:20 |
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| angasule | yay it's in debian :) | 16:21 |
| lardman | anyone know where that thread moaning about 3G vs 2G power consumption on Talk is? | 16:21 |
| ShadowJK | there are hundreds.. | 16:21 |
| lardman | is there a definitive one? | 16:21 |
| lardman | i.e. someone actually having done some proper testing? | 16:22 |
| angasule | lardman: next to the one moaning about F100 vs Ford T fuel consumption? :) | 16:22 |
| lardman | well I'd moan about silly American cars too ;) | 16:22 |
| Soft | Whats simplest way to get name of the wlan im currently connected to from terminal? | 16:22 |
| RedPenguin | Thanks again timeless_mbp, nanddump seems to be working, no problems at all | 16:22 |
| angasule | hehehe right, I just couldn't think of a world-known all-around useful vehicle other than the F100, cars are boring | 16:23 |
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| ShadowJK | lardman, the answer isn't simple enough for some random idiots on tmo to do meaningful tests ;-) | 16:23 |
| lardman | sure, just wondering if there was anything useful (probably too much to ask from TMO) | 16:24 |
| angasule | ShadowJK: it takes specifics idiots, then? :P | 16:24 |
| ShadowJK | But roughly it's something like this: any activity on 3G forces the 3G radio to transmit for something between 1 and 10 seconds, depending on the network, and depending on the conditions. In my case it's something like 5 seconds. | 16:24 |
| lardman | having seen qwerty's 3G/2G switcher, I was wondering what sort of power saving is performed in the firmware | 16:24 |
| angasule | lardman: when it comes to power consumption of wireless junk, I like to do my own, since it greatly depends on coverage and other things | 16:24 |
| lardman | but 3G>2G>GPRS in the power consumption stakes? | 16:25 |
| lardman | or does it also depend on transmitter location (i.e. they are not co-located)? | 16:25 |
| TomaszD | soft, you need to install wireless-tools, then run iwconfig wlan0 as root | 16:25 |
| ShadowJK | So if you've got IMs and IRC and what have you, several things that do random un-coordinated keep-alives, some chat activity on IRC, etc, it's very easy to have a situation where the 3G radio is continously transmitting in order to shift 60 bytes per second or similar, and this ends up consuming only slightly less than transmitting 10 megabits/sec ;-) | 16:25 |
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| lardman | ShadowJK: yep, but that's something that libosso should handle optionally, allowing apps to register whether they need realtime, etc | 16:26 |
| lardman | then do some sort of burst transmission | 16:26 |
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| ShadowJK | There is a library/api for that already. I don't think anyone uses it | 16:26 |
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| ShadowJK | (unfortunately) | 16:27 |
| lardman | oh right, can you give me a pointer? | 16:27 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, I randomly stumbled upon it on maemo.org ... let's see if I can do it again | 16:27 |
| lardman | :) | 16:27 |
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| RedPenguin | I just put a Mini-SD card in my N810, which works fine, but once I open the stand, the Mini-SD door, pops open, sometimes ejecting the card, anyone having this? | 16:31 |
| lardman | no | 16:31 |
| RedPenguin | Or if not ejecting the card, causing the stand to not close until you push in the door | 16:31 |
| lardman | it should lock in there | 16:31 |
| lardman | is the card mounted? | 16:32 |
| sp3000 | the card should lock with a click, perhaps you didn't get it deep enough | 16:32 |
| lardman | I assume not | 16:32 |
| ShadowJK | the minisd card should stay in there even if the door is open | 16:32 |
| lardman | much to most people's annoyance ;) | 16:32 |
| ShadowJK | yeah I need to use the finger with longest nail at the time to get it to lock | 16:32 |
| RedPenguin | Well I will give it another look | 16:32 |
| sp3000 | ...and push in to unlock, also | 16:33 |
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| ShadowJK | lardman, I can't find it anymore :( | 16:39 |
| ShadowJK | it even had example code :/ | 16:39 |
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| lardman | np ShadowJK, busy now anyway | 16:39 |
| lardman | if you do spot it please let me know | 16:39 |
| lardman | must be something the Nokians are thinking about, or perhaps they just assume everyone will want to charge every day. | 16:40 |
| lardman | Who knows | 16:40 |
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| ShadowJK | you know, xchat on 3g and, say, 20 active freenode channels has about 4-6 hour battery life, and <300bytes/sec average transfer | 16:45 |
| RedPenguin | Thanks again, everyone, I see what the problem was | 16:46 |
| RedPenguin | You really have to push it in, even with the stylus as some recommend, if you don't have long fingernails being a guy | 16:46 |
| lardman | just you wait until you try to get it back out! :) | 16:46 |
| Shadikka | Has anybody measured the battery time with an active (outgoing) ssh connection? | 16:46 |
| ShadowJK | what do you mean with active | 16:47 |
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| RedPenguin | lardman, yes I know, I seen the one guy who actually made a YouTube video, because he was so frustrated and thought the whole design was stupid | 16:47 |
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| ShadowJK | I think I like it better than N800 though, where I have to claw out the card with tweezers or similar :-) | 16:48 |
| * sp3000 worked a groove into his cards for the N800 :) | 16:48 | |
| lardman | RedPenguin: need to have a pair of tweezers in there somewhere, swiss army knife-style :) | 16:49 |
| RedPenguin | What amazes me is, the N900 has 32GB storage but still only allows 8GB cards, so that seems like backup would be a lot harder | 16:49 |
| ShadowJK | you can use 32G cards... if you can find them | 16:50 |
| ShadowJK | 16 is easier to find :) | 16:50 |
| RedPenguin | From what I seen on the Nokia site, it seemed to say 8GB only | 16:50 |
| ShadowJK | that's bullshit | 16:50 |
| ShadowJK | People are using 16g cards, and the only reason it doesn't say 32g is that they couldn't find a 32g to test with | 16:50 |
| sp3000 | the text is usually based on whatever might have been tested at the time of writing or thereabouts | 16:51 |
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| sp3000 | or so I would suspect | 16:51 |
| RedPenguin | Anyone tried bigger than 8GB in the N810? | 16:51 |
| sp3000 | it's hard to promise arbitrary future things :) | 16:51 |
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| ShadowJK | RedPenguin, there's one guy that sells a kind of adapter, a flat cable that you connect in the minisd slot, and the other end to a fullsize sd slot hidden under an extended battery cover he also sells, which lets you use fullsize 32gig sd cards even.. ;p | 16:52 |
| RedPenguin | I actually see that | 16:53 |
| RedPenguin | I see 16GB in the specs on the Nokia site, but I remember not too long ago, it seemed to say 8GB | 16:53 |
| jX | I know people that have had 16GB cards work | 16:54 |
| RedPenguin | jx, you mean in N900 or N810? | 16:55 |
| jX | 810 | 16:55 |
| RedPenguin | Figures I have a 8GB | 16:56 |
| angasule | I'd love to have international phonetic alphabet support, but I don't know which font to install, or where :? | 16:57 |
| RedPenguin | One site, a guy says he used a 16GB in an 800 | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | 32g is fine in N800 too | 17:00 |
| * ShadowJK has 16+8 in his N800 | 17:00 | |
| ShadowJK | or did I have 16+16, I forget | 17:00 |
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| RedPenguin | Wikipedia states that, 32GB is supported, just Nokia decided to "offically" only support 8 | 17:01 |
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| Fredrik1994 | "officially" | 17:03 |
| Fredrik1994 | seems weird to me, as it may be a dealbreaker _for some_ | 17:03 |
| Shadikka | angasule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA#IPA_font_downloads | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | dealbreaker.. drink! | 17:03 |
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| lardman | when the device was launched that was a big as they went | 17:04 |
| angasule | Shadikka: thanks, I didn't know deja vu had IPA, I'm installing that from the repos and hoping it's automatically used :D | 17:05 |
| RedPenguin | Figures I buy an 8GB, and people are already putting at least 16GB in their N810's | 17:05 |
| Shadikka | angasule: np ;) | 17:05 |
| lardman | or more probably when they performed their hw testing, that was as big as there was | 17:05 |
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| angasule | yay! it did, now I can properly study languages :D | 17:07 |
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| RedPenguin | One maemo thread states any card, no matter what size in the future will work on N800/N810 | 17:13 |
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| * Fredrik1994 wants to have a 1TB card working in N900 | 17:14 | |
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| SpeedEvil | The SD interface is more like USB than RAM. | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | There is no specific fixed width mandated in hardware. | 17:14 |
| SpeedEvil | It's pretty much just a software thing. | 17:15 |
| RedPenguin | That's what I'm seeing basically | 17:16 |
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| RedPenguin | Figures I may have to get a 32GB or something in place of the 8GB instead | 17:16 |
| * RST38h moos | 17:17 | |
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| angasule | 8GB should be enough for everyone. | 17:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Also as the flash is never exposed to the outside world - it goes through an interface chip - having that chip support 3.3V is essentially free. | 17:18 |
| SpeedEvil | So there is little pressure to reduce voltage. | 17:18 |
| RedPenguin | angasule, yes, you are probably right, not sure I feel like dishing out the extra cash to get 16/32 anyway, when I have not even come close to feeling the 8 | 17:19 |
| ShadowJK | the price difference between 8 and 16 is kinda huge | 17:20 |
| RST38h | Ah, nice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfraGard | 17:21 |
| angasule | RedPenguin: I was making fun of the 640kb phrase, come on! :) | 17:21 |
| * RST38h did not know things like that already existed, good to know that his predictions were right on target | 17:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | save the money by buying an 8, and use it to buy a 32 | 17:21 |
| marcels | hi guys, I just installed the sdk (fremantle) on my debian installation and works almost perfect. The only problem I have is that the cli (scratchbox/login) can use the internet connection from the host, but the gui (Xephyr) can't. Anyone here who can point me in the right direction? | 17:22 |
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| RedPenguin | oh, angasule, I see what you mean now | 17:23 |
| RedPenguin | lol | 17:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Where does the 'gps recorder' app drop files? | 17:24 |
| RedPenguin | I noticed though, for some reason, even though many 8GB micro's come with Mini and SD converters, many 16/32GB micro's seem strictly to come with SD only converters | 17:25 |
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| * Arkenoi yet to see 32Gb micros from a reliable source | 17:27 | |
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| RedPenguin | Looking at people's reviews of SD cards are interesting, when they say they will only knock it stars if it's defective | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 17:37 |
| ShadowJK | It's just that 99.9% of them are incompetent to review sd cards | 17:38 |
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| [Tycho] | There are something to review about sd cards except for reliability and may be speed ? :) | 17:42 |
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| ShadowJK | Speed, power consumption | 17:43 |
| ShadowJK | 95% are incompetent to review speed | 17:43 |
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| Arif | hi ;o | 17:45 |
| * [Tycho] uses sd card only in video recorded and as backup card in photo camera so the only parameter that i worry about is price :) | 17:47 | |
| Arif | anyone with an N900 about? :) | 17:47 |
| [Tycho] | *recorder | 17:47 |
| BirdFlew | yep, Arif | 17:48 |
| Arif | Could you try something for me? | 17:48 |
| BirdFlew | sure | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | anyone know where the gps recorder desktop thingy drops its files? | 17:49 |
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| derf | RST38h: Pong. | 17:54 |
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| unixSnob | anyone know of a dual sim phone with wifi that will work as a router to serve an n800? | 17:56 |
| derf | lardman: Pong to you, too. | 17:57 |
| Arif | Anyone know if it's possible to stream TS muxed video to the N900? | 17:57 |
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| RST38h | derf: Ah, yes | 18:00 |
| RST38h | derf: You mentioned once about sticking more icons into Maemo5 toolbar than it was designed for | 18:00 |
| RST38h | derf: Any pointers on how to do this? | 18:00 |
| derf | Huh, I don't remember mentioning that. | 18:00 |
| * RST38h kinda avoided this problem with FBReader today, but it will probably reappear again | 18:00 | |
| RST38h | hmmm... ok | 18:01 |
| derf | Oh, I see. | 18:01 |
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| derf | I wasn't using a toolbar when I was trying to get rid of space around buttons. | 18:02 |
| RST38h | With HBox it should not be hard | 18:02 |
| RST38h | But the toolbar causes a few problems | 18:02 |
| RedPenguin | Anyone actually try the Ubuntu 9.04 on N810? I just saw the link that this was done. | 18:03 |
| RST38h | That is probably about chrooted environment | 18:03 |
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| derf | I was actually trying to stick them in a GtkTable. | 18:03 |
| derf | Anyway, what I wound up doing was using gtk_rc_parse_string() to define a custom style for the buttons. | 18:04 |
| RST38h | Oh | 18:04 |
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| derf | RST38h: http://pastebin.com/m7aa66289 | 18:05 |
| RST38h | derf: this may actually work with the toolbar as it has functions to set style =) | 18:06 |
| RST38h | Of course I am not sure at all that the hildon-lobotomized toolbar heeds any styles... | 18:07 |
| derf | That still left an annoying amount of space between the buttons... no idea who was adding that. | 18:07 |
| RST38h | derf: probably was due to table's own spacer | 18:07 |
| RST38h | i.e. CELLPADDING vs CELLSPACING | 18:07 |
| derf | But it kept the image inside from pushing it out even farther. | 18:07 |
| derf | RST38h: Yeah, I tried messing with the table, too. Never could get anywhere. | 18:08 |
| Arkenoi | hildon-status-menu eats 95% cpu, wtf? | 18:08 |
| tenfar | i have find a way to build a FIASCO image | 18:08 |
| derf | But that solved my problem enough that I didn't care anymore. | 18:08 |
| RST38h | derf: Well, I solved the problem at hand at a higher level | 18:10 |
| RST38h | derf: there was no space for the Net Library icon in FBReader and it is not possible to move it to the menu | 18:10 |
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| RST38h | derf: So i move Net Library icon to the Library View (the one that opens when you press the folder icon in the current FBReader build) | 18:11 |
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| derf | Yeah, best is just to have fewer buttons. | 18:11 |
| RST38h | s/i move/I moved | 18:11 |
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| RST38h | derf: Not always possible | 18:11 |
| derf | But as I think I mentioned, I can't tell the Japanese language to use fewer radicals. | 18:11 |
| RST38h | derf: AFAIK, Anidel is still struggling with the same problem | 18:11 |
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| derf | And you really do need to be able to see all of them at once. | 18:11 |
| RST38h | derf: zooming UI then? | 18:12 |
| derf | That sounds like work. | 18:12 |
| RST38h | well, having unhealthy sexual relationship with gtk+ guts sounds like more work to me | 18:13 |
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| derf | Yes, but I never have to call her again. | 18:14 |
| derf | And we don't need to see each other socially. | 18:14 |
| RST38h | weelll...we will see that... | 18:14 |
| derf | Anyway, dawn is here. Time to go hiking. | 18:15 |
| RST38h | heh | 18:15 |
| RST38h | Is autobuilder dead again? | 18:15 |
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| RST38h | Hmmm...it sent me email about successfully building the package but that did not show up at the website. Weird crap. | 18:16 |
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| sp3000 | Arkenoi: some dodgy plugin on it? | 18:19 |
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| Arkenoi | sp3000: maybe, but how to determine which one? | 18:22 |
| sp3000 | the slow way, I guess | 18:22 |
| sp3000 | or, some sort of sampling... | 18:23 |
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| Stskeeps | tenfar: hmm? | 18:27 |
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| ShadowJK | is qwerty no longer on irc? | 18:35 |
| tenfar | Stskeeps: what? | 18:35 |
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| lcukx200 | ShadowJK, no, we miss him terribly | 18:36 |
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| ShadowJK | wanted to know the reasoning behind making mode selection applet strictly 2g/3g only, without the dual mode | 18:37 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: I spoke with him yesterday on email | 18:38 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: said IRC was turning to shit iirc ;) | 18:38 |
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| xorAxAx | maybe you can convince him to join #maemo-devel | 18:38 |
| lardman | true | 18:38 |
| lardman | perhaps I should join that myself ;) | 18:39 |
| ShadowJK | maybe this thing is trivial enough that I could modify it | 18:39 |
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| hrw|n900 | hi | 18:40 |
| hrw|n900 | vote for bug #7787 and bug #7788 | 18:41 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7787 lack of way to disable emoticons in chat view | 18:41 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7788 emoticons are displayed in chat view but messages list do not shows them | 18:41 |
| xorAxAx | hrw|n900: you havent voted yourself | 18:41 |
| hrw|n900 | xor: I reported them | 18:42 |
| xorAxAx | then you cannot vote? ok | 18:42 |
| tenfar | sleep.good night every one | 18:42 |
| tenfar | bye | 18:42 |
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| hrw|n900 | xor: I think that i | 18:43 |
| lcukx200 | hrw|gone, but emotes are good :( | 18:43 |
| hrw|n900 | should not vote for own reported | 18:43 |
| lcukx200 | emotes dont want disabling :( | 18:43 |
| RST38h | emotes sucj | 18:44 |
| RST38h | k | 18:44 |
| * lcukx200 is yanking chain and voting :) | 18:44 | |
| hrw|n900 | lcuk: check 7787 message then | 18:44 |
| RST38h | when I type ":)" I mean ":)" not some grinning goblin | 18:44 |
| hrw|n900 | exactly | 18:45 |
| frals | hrw|n900: did you search before reporting? 7787 looks a lot like https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7127 *imo* | 18:45 |
| povbot` | Bug 7127: Add option to disable smiley icons in conversations | 18:45 |
| hrw|n900 | worse when it is part of generated pass.. | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: usually mature users are allowed to disable emoticons inmail and chat clients 8) | 18:45 |
| hrw|n900 | frals: was searching for emoticons... | 18:46 |
| frals | :) | 18:46 |
| hrw|n900 | battery dies :( | 18:46 |
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| xorAxAx | hrw|n900: mark it as a duplicate | 18:47 |
| hrw|n900 | did that | 18:48 |
| hrw|n900 | and voted on 7127 | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | #7127 | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | bug #7127 | 18:49 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7127 Add option to disable smiley icons in conversations | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | thanks povbot` | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ah ouch now I get it. conversations as in "SMS" -- eeew | 18:50 |
| hrw|n900 | andre is offline: | 18:51 |
| hrw|n900 | ? | 18:51 |
| lardman | DocScrutinizer51: more mature users need the little pictures shown so they know what the hell ";)" is supposed to mean! ;) | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lol | 18:51 |
| lardman | though certainly they are a major pita if you use MSN to send code inside the office | 18:52 |
| hrw|n900 | DocScrutinizer51: here it is 'rozmowy' which is 'chats' | 18:52 |
| hrw|n900 | RST38h: can you change few default shortcuts in xchat? | 18:53 |
| ifreq | there is OCS for inside messaging @office | 18:53 |
| hrw|n900 | RST38h: shift+space is nice for nick completion for example. | 18:53 |
| * hrw|n900 still needs to find how to switch channels from keyboard... | 18:54 | |
| ifreq | hrw|n900: esc +a | 18:54 |
| ifreq | if you mean irssi | 18:54 |
| ifreq | ah for xchat.. nvm | 18:54 |
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| hrw|n900 | ifreq: no, I mean xchat | 18:55 |
| hrw|n900 | ifreq: in irssi I use Alt+numbers (not on n900) | 18:55 |
| * lcukx200 shivers | 18:56 | |
| RST38h | hrw: nick completion shortcut already in place | 18:56 |
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| RST38h | hrw: it should work | 18:56 |
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| hrw|n900 | RST38h: I just set shift-space for it and it works for me. | 18:57 |
| RST38h | hrw: It is set by default | 18:57 |
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| hrw|n900 | mkey | 18:57 |
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| johnq | hrw|n900: which client are you using? | 18:58 |
| hrw|n900 | ok, time to end - battery... | 18:58 |
| hrw|n900 | johnq: xchat/fremantle | 18:58 |
| Chiku | fremantle is maemo v5 name? | 18:59 |
| RST38h | hrw: remove ~/.xchat2 and see if the default settings are to your liking | 19:00 |
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| RST38h | hrw: You can then either restore your old xchat2 dir or migrate a few settings | 19:00 |
| RST38h | if you are keeping your old xchat2 dir, disable lagometer there | 19:00 |
| johnq | hrw|n900: ok, i'll try it | 19:00 |
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| KenYoung | How can I submit a package to the "Extras Testing" queue? | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | anybody checked flashlight and/or load applet updates of today yet? | 19:08 |
| xorAxAx | KenYoung: by promoting it from the package page | 19:09 |
| KenYoung | xorAxAx, I don't understand - by the package page, do you mean the project's page in the Maemo Garage? | 19:10 |
| xorAxAx | KenYoung: no. did you upload your source package already? | 19:10 |
| KenYoung | xorAxAx, I uploaded both a source tarball, and a .deb package for installation, to the project's page in the Maemo Garage site. | 19:11 |
| xorAxAx | KenYoung: you need to use dput to upload your package ... it is explained on ... | 19:11 |
| xorAxAx | http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras | 19:11 |
| KenYoung | xorAxAx, Thanks very much for the pointer! | 19:12 |
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| RevdKathy | Lcuk? Was it something I said? | 19:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer51: all simple use-cases i can see work fine with latest flashlight | 19:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer51: it goes on if hte shutter is open - doesn't crash if it's closed, and the camera app fails to open as it should I guess. cpu applet worked too - thoguh IIRC I had to reboot. | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer51: 'powatool' seemed to do bad things for me - maybe. | 19:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: thanks | 19:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 kicks off an update | 19:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | though I really hate that boot part :-P | 19:41 |
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| xorAxAx | why do you need to boot? | 19:44 |
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| N900evil | good question | 19:45 |
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| salman | woow, I was planning to download the maemo sdk for testing, evaluation and learning to program it, but I found it is 1.5 GB compressed, that is a huge download for me | 19:47 |
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| * N900evil counts installed apps. 42 | 19:48 | |
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| N900evil | argh | 19:49 |
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| N900evil | cut finger makekes typing hard | 19:50 |
| N900evil | thumb | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: no boot here. all fine :-) | 19:51 |
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| KenYoung | salman - if you *really* can't download it, I could send it to you on a DVD. | 19:57 |
| salman | KenYoung, oh thank you. the thing is that I have a 4GB download limits at home which after that I will suffer a worse than dialup speed for the rest of the month :-) | 19:59 |
| salman | I would have to do the download in work were I have a open download limit with a around 1mb spoeed | 19:59 |
| salman | s/spoeed/speed | 19:59 |
| zash | download limits? in 2010? what the hell | 19:59 |
| KenYoung | salman, So does that mean you want me to send it to you? | 20:00 |
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| salman | zash, we have 4 or 5 isp, all have limits, and the prices are ... | 20:00 |
| Wolfie | I'm incredibly glad that this download cap crap has never come to Finland | 20:02 |
| N900evil | high? | 20:02 |
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| RST38h | just wait... | 20:02 |
| salman | A 6GB limit with a speed of 'upto' 'theoretical' 2mibs is $48/month | 20:02 |
| Wolfie | it's enough that the rates are pretty abysmal unless you live in the middle of the top-10 largest cities | 20:02 |
| Wolfie | both speed and moneywise | 20:03 |
| N900evil | only have cap on mobile thankfully | 20:03 |
| salman | I would never dream of using the net on mobile, that is suicide to my pocket and heart | 20:03 |
| N900evil | well - 20g daytime /month too on dsl | 20:03 |
| Wolfie | salman: n900 without a mobile data contract is pretty suicide... | 20:04 |
| N900evil | 1g/mo for 3.30£ | 20:04 |
| ShadowJK | Wolfie, the ideal place to live for 3G speeds, is a place in the middle of nowhere, where hte operator has just placed a fresh new 3g transmitter a month ago, so nobody else is using it yet ;-) | 20:04 |
| * ShadowJK just clocked 600kbyte/s on gpodder on 3.5g :D | 20:05 | |
| Wolfie | now, i can rejoice that I don't have to walk to the neighboring room to my laptop, if i have my n900 in my pocket :) | 20:05 |
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| Wolfie | ShadowJK: sure. But that lasts about 6 months. | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | yeah :-( | 20:05 |
| RST38h | 30GB at $23/mo | 20:05 |
| salman | Wolfie, I know :-( I plan on using it within wifi hotspot range | 20:05 |
| RST38h | At 100Mbd | 20:05 |
| Wolfie | ShadowJK: the relocation costs are pretty high :) | 20:05 |
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| RST38h | Actually, 30GB is not really a cap, it just gets charged higher if you exceed it | 20:06 |
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| ShadowJK | Wolfie, it might be cheaper to hire people to kill everyone else who uses it ;-) | 20:06 |
| RST38h | And the internal traffic is not being counted, so you can download all the pirate movies you want (too bad I do not want any) | 20:06 |
| salman | my great ISP, http://www.bh.zain.com/portal/page/portal/personal/fixedWireless | 20:07 |
| Wolfie | RST38h: i might buy into that, depending on the contracts | 20:07 |
| RST38h | Wolfie: Contracts? What contracts? | 20:07 |
| salman | $1 = BD0.375 | 20:07 |
| RST38h | No contracts. You deposit money, it gets subtracted on the daily basis, little by little (comes to $23/mo) | 20:07 |
| Wolfie | RST38h: i mean, if the sub-30gb range is mildly priced, and what comes above that isn't unreasonably expensive | 20:08 |
| RST38h | When money runs out, you get disconnected. At that point you call these guys and say "could you please connect me for now, I will pay tomorrow" | 20:08 |
| RST38h | And you pay tomorrow :) | 20:08 |
| RST38h | Wolfie: You mean, $23/mo is too high? :) | 20:08 |
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| crashanddie | I love how some people moan about the fact that a couple of dozen bucks is too expensive for x feature or y service | 20:09 |
| RST38h | No-cap tariff starts at $19 and you get 4Mbd either way | 20:09 |
| RST38h | No limit. | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | just get yourself a fucking job, stop wasting money on prostitutes, and stop moaning 24/7 | 20:10 |
| crashanddie | /rant | 20:10 |
| Wolfie | RST38h: not at all. Especially if it's over 2mbps down | 20:10 |
| RST38h | Wolfie: It is 100Mbps | 20:10 |
| * ifreq gets sim via phone.. 0eur / month usage | 20:10 | |
| Wolfie | omg | 20:10 |
| Wolfie | i want your web | 20:10 |
| ifreq | err via WORK* ffu.. | 20:10 |
| Wolfie | i'm paying 41 euros for 8/1 adsl. | 20:11 |
| Wolfie | capless or not, that's way too much | 20:11 |
| crashanddie | heh, 30 euros for 100/10 here as well :) Plus free TV and phone | 20:11 |
| Wolfie | well, actually _i'm_ not paying all of that. But that's a nother story | 20:11 |
| RST38h | fuck free tv and phone | 20:12 |
| RST38h | no good for anything, anyway | 20:12 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: calling the whole world for free is shite? | 20:16 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: don't know for you, but my family doesn't exactly live all in the same area, so for us it's pretty useful | 20:16 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: my mum calls me + rest of family for free, I use SIP service on same line to call them as well | 20:17 |
| salman | these are the only adsl packages we have, the fastest is 16/.5 speed with 80GB limits costing $266 | 20:17 |
| xorAxAx | crashanddie: get a job and pay 266 USD | 20:18 |
| xorAxAx | thats probably more than an average monthly salary | 20:18 |
| crashanddie | eh? | 20:18 |
| crashanddie | Where the f do you live? | 20:18 |
| Wolfie | xorAxAx: boy you must be rich | 20:18 |
| crashanddie | 266 USD average monthly salary? That's the average salary in the Ukraine | 20:18 |
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| xorAxAx | he is living in bahrain | 20:18 |
| crashanddie | oh well | 20:19 |
| crashanddie | not far off then | 20:19 |
| xorAxAx | Wolfie: ? | 20:19 |
| Wolfie | nevermind | 20:19 |
| crashanddie | xorAxAx: and I have a pretty good job, thank you very much ;) | 20:19 |
| salman | the average salary here is around BD300 | 20:19 |
| timeless | sp3000, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/696083 | 20:19 |
| crashanddie | salman: what's BD? | 20:19 |
| crashanddie | bahrain dollars? | 20:19 |
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| crashanddie | hmm, dinars | 20:20 |
| timeless | crash: googletalk is nice | 20:20 |
| timeless | oh hey | 20:20 |
| salman | crashanddie, $1 =BD0.375, Bahraini Dinars, so that makes it $800 | 20:20 |
| redeeman | crashanddie: which might just be worth more than dollars now, lol | 20:20 |
| redeeman | oh well | 20:20 |
| timeless | i owe you hys complaints | 20:20 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: calling card. landline. $0.03/min to US | 20:20 |
| crashanddie | redeeman: BDs are worth more than pounds, so yeah, definitely worth more than usd | 20:21 |
| timeless | your libs aren't signed | 20:21 |
| timeless | bd? | 20:21 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: why would I want to do that? | 20:21 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Because you can take the receiver off a normal desk phone and talk into it? | 20:21 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: and I can't do this now why? | 20:22 |
| salman | BD is tied with the $, same as almost all of the other arab oil countries | 20:22 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: I use the n810 + headset as phone, works for me | 20:22 |
| crashanddie | never tried with the n900 | 20:22 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: so, you canno do this now. | 20:22 |
| xorAxAx | salman: imagine if they tied it to EUR :) | 20:22 |
| Anidel | hi crashanddie :) how are you doing? | 20:22 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: so your only argument against my ISP offering free SIP to the whole wide world is that it's not as convenient as picking up a phone, and instead I have to go through the trouble of using a device I worship and adore? | 20:23 |
| timeless | crash: think you can poke someone about signing? | 20:23 |
| crashanddie | timeless: hmm? | 20:23 |
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| RST38h | crashanddie: Guess so. | 20:23 |
| RST38h | + SIP sucks. | 20:23 |
| LuciusMare | fuck this,its snowing on my n900 | 20:24 |
| timeless | windows pe exe/dll support codesiging | 20:24 |
| crashanddie | oh | 20:24 |
| timeless | s/g/gn/ | 20:24 |
| infobot | timeless meant: windows pe exe/dll support codesigning | 20:24 |
| LuciusMare | how did it come out in water stress tests? | 20:24 |
| crashanddie | timeless: probably on next versions of the software, we won't do it retroactively though | 20:24 |
| timeless | i'm going to try to make gecko refuse unsigned libs | 20:24 |
| timeless | sure | 20:24 |
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| crashanddie | timeless: we have a few versions that will be distributed through windows update anyway | 20:24 |
| crashanddie | timeless: btw, I'm moving from that space at the moment | 20:25 |
| crashanddie | timeless: still with the company, but becoming tech lead for an aussie project | 20:25 |
| timeless | roughly speaking, one "vendor" is distributed crap via all the major credit card companies | 20:26 |
| timeless | *unsigned* crap | 20:26 |
| timeless | some w/o even including versioninfo | 20:26 |
| timeless | i'm tired if blacklisting | 20:26 |
| timeless | so, solution: you must be this high to enter | 20:27 |
| timeless | reboot time, no cellmo here :o | 20:27 |
| crashanddie | "You must be this high to enter", reminds me of the weed club I had in high school | 20:27 |
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| RST38h | FBReader 0.10.7-10 now in Extras-Devel, promoting to -Testing | 20:33 |
| tybollt | ugh anyone got the url for that tweak to make fennec not use diskbased memmory | 20:35 |
| mj_ | hi all, just want to know what is the best place to start learning for maemo? I have just installed ubuntu and the sdk | 20:35 |
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| ifreq | mj_: ask from #maemo-devel perhaps | 20:35 |
| mj_ | tybollt: http://stechz.com/2010/make-your-fennec-rc1-fast-again/ | 20:36 |
| mj_ | ifreq: thanks will do | 20:36 |
| RST38h | Well... "fast" isn't exactly the right word here | 20:37 |
| RST38h | More like "a little bit faster" | 20:37 |
| moo-_- | fennec RC2 has been released | 20:37 |
| tybollt | mj_: grazie | 20:37 |
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| tybollt | RST38h: anything better than what is default would do. | 20:38 |
| tybollt | fennec rc2 is still a world apart from the built in browser | 20:38 |
| moo-_- | tybollt: true that | 20:38 |
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| tybollt | does fennec have a zooming option like the twirl one? | 20:40 |
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| tybollt | wow yes | 20:42 |
| tybollt | that was a big speed increase (for my entirey unscientific testing) | 20:43 |
| tybollt | I'd go as far as saying the thing is half useable now ;) | 20:43 |
| RST38h | not really | 20:43 |
| RST38h | try opening talk.maemo.org or anything.livejornal.com | 20:44 |
| RST38h | I am sure slashdot.org will also be an eye opener | 20:44 |
| mece | wot? | 20:44 |
| mece | what is being tested? | 20:44 |
| tybollt | fennec | 20:44 |
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| tybollt | w/ and w/out disk cache enabled | 20:44 |
| mece | oic. is it slower than b? | 20:44 |
| tybollt | lots lots L O T S :) | 20:45 |
| mece | heh | 20:45 |
| mece | ok.. I figured as much. 's why I haven't bothered yet. | 20:45 |
| moo-_- | tybollt: here are some RC1 comments - I need to update the blog post: http://blog.twinapex.fi/2010/01/02/mobile-browser-wars-nokia-microb-vs-firefox-fennec/ | 20:45 |
| tybollt | however, it gets bit faster w/ disk cache | 20:45 |
| RST38h | moo: War? | 20:45 |
| RST38h | More like a slaughter | 20:45 |
| tybollt | but as RST38h says it's still far from being useable (why is he olways right? :P ) | 20:45 |
| moo-_- | RST38h: well yes... but it would be not kind to call it a slaughter ^^ | 20:45 |
| mikhas | "Safari ships with iPhone"? | 20:46 |
| mikhas | surely it's the other way around =) | 20:46 |
| mece | orly? | 20:46 |
| b-man17 | mece, YA RLY | 20:46 |
| mece | lol | 20:47 |
| mece | how's midori btw? | 20:47 |
| moo-_- | mece: not usable | 20:47 |
| moo-_- | mece: it's direct desktop port.. UI is useless | 20:47 |
| mece | I've been content with micorb so I haven't bothered with any other browsers. | 20:47 |
| mece | moo-_-: ok. | 20:47 |
| mece | how about that other webkit one then? | 20:48 |
| mece | tear? | 20:48 |
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| mece | some direct desktop ports are awesome though. Freeciv ftw! | 20:48 |
| moo-_- | mece: you can forgot all free-time driven community efforts... they just don't have what's needed to deliver a working UI | 20:48 |
| mikhas | ouch | 20:49 |
| mikhas | that hurt | 20:49 |
| moo-_- | mikhas: it is matter of resources | 20:49 |
| mikhas | I know what you mean | 20:49 |
| moo-_- | mikhas: of course I wish someone proves me being wrong :) | 20:49 |
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| moo-_- | but I am being pragmatic though as much I love open source | 20:50 |
| mece | moo-_-, I'm not really that fuzzed about UI. if there's a place to write the adress and some bookmarks I'm pretty much set. It's what happens with the webpages that interest me. | 20:50 |
| mece | aren't microb and fennec open source anyway? | 20:50 |
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| timeless | microb is an engine | 20:51 |
| timeless | the ui isn't open source | 20:51 |
| timeless | it's also crappy and uninteresting | 20:51 |
| mece | timeless, ok. | 20:51 |
| mece | timeless, is it? Seems to work just fine to me. As in not crappy. | 20:52 |
| timeless | the engine is good | 20:52 |
| timeless | the ui has issues | 20:52 |
| timeless | but the goal is for it to disappear asap | 20:53 |
| timeless | so you can just browse | 20:53 |
| mece | timeless, well it does that :) | 20:53 |
| moo-_- | the best user interface is the invisible user interface! ^_^ | 20:53 |
| timeless | as long as you don't see it and pages work | 20:53 |
| timeless | it's doing its job, and you're happy | 20:53 |
| mece | moo-_-, exactly! | 20:53 |
| tybollt | moo-_-: granted midori does the horizontal vs vetical screen alignment correctly | 20:53 |
| timeless | when you're happy, we're happy | 20:53 |
| w00t | timeless: it will go away? what will happen to the UI when it vanishes? :-o | 20:53 |
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| konttori | timeless: do you know why the 'bookmarks' view doesn't disappear when an ACTUAL browser is opened from it? | 20:54 |
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| moo-_- | w00t: there is a "zooop" voice and it's gone! | 20:54 |
| timeless | tybollt: you mean irentation? | 20:54 |
| mece | timeless, there's actually one thing that bothers me with it though | 20:54 |
| w00t | moo-_-: hah | 20:54 |
| * konttori doesn't like the 'lingering' bookmarks view | 20:54 | |
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| mece | konttori, I really like the lingering bookmarks view :) | 20:54 |
| timeless | kontorri: dunno actually | 20:54 |
| timeless | it's probably in the ui spec | 20:54 |
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| w00t | I quite like that | 20:54 |
| mece | konttori, it bothered me at first, but now I find it practical since I alwasy open a couple of site when I get going | 20:54 |
| w00t | I use it to launch all my windows | 20:54 |
| * mece agrees with w00t | 20:55 | |
| konttori | timeless: well, of course it's the spec, but why is it like that | 20:55 |
| konttori | it's easy enough to change the spec if needed. | 20:55 |
| timeless | i can't think of any reason to do what it does | 20:55 |
| mece | konttori, timeless, perhaps this is something that could be an option. | 20:55 |
| timeless | mece: NO! | 20:55 |
| mece | timeless, why not? | 20:56 |
| timeless | prefs are B*D | 20:56 |
| timeless | they increase testing | 20:56 |
| mece | timeless, if it's removed, the browser is worse for me. | 20:56 |
| timeless | they increase testingincrease code | 20:56 |
| w00t | didn't we just point out why it would be useful, btw? | 20:56 |
| timeless | increase maintenance | 20:56 |
| timeless | increase blaoat | 20:56 |
| timeless | increase confusion | 20:56 |
| mece | timeless, true. | 20:56 |
| mece | timeless, so don't change it :P | 20:56 |
| Proteous | DOWN WITH TOGGLES!! | 20:56 |
| timeless | it's bad enough zoom v. audio will be a pref | 20:56 |
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| Proteous | there is an easy fix, just put all your bookmarks on the desktop | 20:57 |
| mece | timeless, zoom v audio annoys me. | 20:57 |
| w00t | Proteous: i'd love to, but i've got too many of them | 20:57 |
| Proteous | MORE SCREENS! | 20:57 |
| Proteous | heh | 20:57 |
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| konttori | mece: why do you find it useful? | 20:57 |
| RST38h | Each program should come with exactly one button | 20:57 |
| Proteous | once you get used to the fact that it's perfectly okay to have a bunch of things open, you get over the bookmarks thing | 20:58 |
| Proteous | A GO BUTTONG! | 20:58 |
| RST38h | Style guide should require this button to be right in the middle of the screen, have round shape, and take at least 30% of the screen area | 20:58 |
| Proteous | er, button | 20:58 |
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| timeless | we're working on making it worse/more confusing | 20:58 |
| konttori | RST38h: you mean the do what I'm thinking you should do -button? | 20:58 |
| timeless | don't worry | 20:58 |
| RST38h | This should do wonders for testing | 20:58 |
| RST38h | konttori: Not necessarily. If it simply shows a message "Not sufficient resources to do what you want me to do", that will suffice | 20:58 |
| mece | konttori, I usually open 2 or 3 pages when I start browsing. It's very nice to have the bookmark view ready and waiting, so I can just pop up that other thing withnout haveing to reload it. | 20:58 |
| konttori | timeless: what? zoom and audio +- buttons will be a pref? | 20:59 |
| mikhas | I agree with Proteous' solution here | 20:59 |
| mikhas | have a screen dedicated to bookmarks works great | 20:59 |
| konttori | mece: can't you do that with just ctrl+n a few times? | 20:59 |
| w00t | no | 21:00 |
| w00t | because ctrl+n involves popping a keyboard | 21:00 |
| konttori | also, you could just have one click more to open the same browser start view again every time | 21:00 |
| mece | ctrl-n opens empty on my phone | 21:00 |
| * timeless nods | 21:00 | |
| timeless | sadly | 21:00 |
| timeless | if things don't change | 21:01 |
| konttori | well, then the additional one click would not be so bad. I recon you could do it even faster than the current way | 21:01 |
| mece | if ctrl-n opened bookmarks then it would be ok for me. | 21:01 |
| timeless | odds are it won't work right either | 21:01 |
| konttori | mece: doesn't some other shortcut open bookmarks? | 21:01 |
| timeless | i'm betting flashand friends will get it wrong | 21:01 |
| mece | I guess you could modify the bookmarks to open _top instead of _new. then it wouldn't linger afaik | 21:01 |
| mece | konttori, no idea. | 21:01 |
| mece | ctrl-b, but not in a new window | 21:02 |
| mece | so ctrl-n ctrl-b I guess. | 21:02 |
| mece | Imma try that | 21:02 |
| mece | yep it works. fast. | 21:02 |
| mece | ok. now I would be ok with bookmarks opening in the same window. but I don't mind the way it is now. | 21:03 |
| mece | where's that bookmark file tucked away? | 21:03 |
| timeless | it's an xml file in home | 21:04 |
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| Vengeful | hi maemo ppl | 21:05 |
| mece | timeless, yeah found it. hmm no "target" tag. I wonder if one could be added? | 21:06 |
| mece | ok anyway I gotta go. | 21:06 |
| timeless | no | 21:06 |
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| mece | aw feck. ctrl-w on nano still segfaults :/ | 21:08 |
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| Xamusk | sorry, my connection is pretty messy today | 21:19 |
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| tybollt | uhm | 21:21 |
| tybollt | qtirreco | 21:21 |
| Klowner | anyone know the command to launch the browser? is it browser launch? | 21:22 |
| tybollt | when I've downloaded my remote and I have it there in the list | 21:22 |
| tybollt | I click on it and just get a grey screen, hmm... how do I make the remote appear? | 21:22 |
| Klowner | err browser.launch rather | 21:22 |
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| timeless | stay away from .launch | 21:23 |
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| odin_ | in scratchbox by default "./configure && make" targets I386 | 21:24 |
| Klowner | microb suddenly stopped working and Im trying to find error logs or something | 21:24 |
| Vengeful | errr there is no msn plugin like haze or telepathy that can be used to do multiple login like msn 9.0 right? | 21:26 |
| timeless | you want /usr/bin/browser_dbuscmd.sh | 21:26 |
| Vengeful | i simply hate to choose between pc or n900 connected to that account | 21:26 |
| Myrtti | I didn't know msn allows multiple logins | 21:26 |
| Myrtti | things you learn every day | 21:26 |
| Vengeful | the latest version can | 21:27 |
| Vengeful | it's the only plus from the forced switching from 8.5 | 21:27 |
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| LuciusMare | ohai | 21:28 |
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| LuciusMare | how can i connect to a hidden (but paired) device with bluemaemo? | 21:28 |
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| Proteous | how come the contacts app brings up a SMS option for non cell phone numbers. Can you SMS landlines now or something? | 21:30 |
| timeless | sounds like a bug ib bluemaemo | 21:30 |
| microlith | mmm | 21:30 |
| microlith | facebook widget vanished | 21:30 |
| timeless | paired devices should always be available | 21:30 |
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| odin_ | what is the "./configure --host xxxxx" for cross-compling to N900 ? | 21:31 |
| LuciusMare | they're not, it searches for them | 21:31 |
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| microlith | odin_: if you're using scratchbox, swapping your target using sb-menu will cover that automatically | 21:32 |
| LuciusMare | wait,nevermind,accessing paired devices is through "reconnect" | 21:32 |
| LuciusMare | how obvious | 21:32 |
| odin_ | microlith, ok used sb-menu to SELECT FREMANTLE_ARMEL, but ./configure still fails the same | 21:33 |
| tybollt | any qtirreco users here? | 21:34 |
| timeless | fails how? - pastebin | 21:34 |
| tybollt | Proteous: yes you can sms landlines | 21:34 |
| tybollt | I can do that | 21:34 |
| odin_ | http://www.pastebin.org/73849 | 21:35 |
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| Klowner | hmmph, I've clearly broken something | 21:36 |
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| odin_ | should build/host=arm ? I thought it was "target=arm" and "build=i686" | 21:37 |
| mkargar | hello | 21:37 |
| timeless | did you enable qemu and friends? | 21:37 |
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| timeless | it's possible to totally botch your arm sbox stup | 21:37 |
| timeless | i do it often | 21:37 |
| odin_ | [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/bash-4.1] > cc: --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi <<-- This looks correct, but ./configure has build=arm, host=arm | 21:38 |
| timeless | read config.log | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, Maemo 5 irritates me with how many open windows it leaves behind. | 21:38 |
| mkargar | i want upddate my n900 frimware!doy you recomended?anu update availabled for it? | 21:38 |
| Xamusk | so, I've been out for some time now... has anyone managed to do a decent implementation for PDA stuff for maemo4, like calendars and contacts? | 21:38 |
| odin_ | yes "config.log" has: If you meant to cross compile, use `--host', but that means sb-menu is broken ? | 21:38 |
| timeless | xamusk: afaik your onlychoice is gpe | 21:39 |
| timeless | which probably means 'no' | 21:39 |
| Xamusk | timeless: that's bad :( | 21:39 |
| * timeless shrugs | 21:39 | |
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| odin_ | envvars set are: HOSTTYPE=i686, MACHTYPE=i686-pc-linux-gnu, SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE=arm | 21:39 |
| timeless | it was never a marketted feature | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why is it that there's yet to be a Maemo 5 theme that actually changes the base look? . . . | 21:39 |
| Xamusk | it's quite curious a tablet almost like a PDA can't do PDA stuff | 21:39 |
| odin_ | well nothing useful in config.log for me | 21:39 |
| timeless | and fact of the matter, it has never been an OSS strong area | 21:40 |
| Xamusk | indeed | 21:40 |
| timeless | lightning and friends are improving but are definitely not ready for mobile | 21:40 |
| konttori | timeless: let's really try to see if we could close bookmarks by default on action. I'll fight the UI guys for you if it comes to that. | 21:40 |
| timeless | fine w/ me | 21:40 |
| Xamusk | I just wished there was some sort of applet for alarms synced to Google Calendar | 21:40 |
| timeless | please file a public bug | 21:41 |
| timeless | xamusk: maemo5 or 6's calendar could probably someday do that | 21:41 |
| mkargar | i want upddate my n900 frimware!doy you recomended?anu update availabled for it? | 21:41 |
| mkargar | *firmware | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, can contacts close after searching and selecting a contact from the desktop? | 21:42 |
| timeless | mkargar: afaik 51-1 hasn't been pushed to regulars | 21:42 |
| timeless | i.e. "wait" | 21:42 |
| Klowner | hrmph, weird dbus error | 21:42 |
| timeless | you'll get an update notice from your n900 | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Clean up all of the open windows" seems to be the last step in nearly anything I do. . . . | 21:42 |
| timeless | gan: bah | 21:42 |
| odin_ | microlith, how does sb-menu cover fixing up ./configure --host/--build and --target options automatically ? | 21:42 |
| timeless | i'd rather contacts not crash regularly | 21:42 |
| timeless | and no, i don't have crash reporter installed | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, PR1.1 is probably more descriptive until a version is actually released. ;) | 21:43 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: could be done. I'll try to remember. | 21:43 |
| * GeneralAntilles has seen mention of at least a 51-2. | 21:43 | |
| timeless | yeah, i don't think -1 will reach normal people | 21:43 |
| timeless | probably a good thing | 21:43 |
| timeless | we could claim we took beta tester feedback ;) | 21:44 |
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| konttori | GeneralAntilles: on latest and greates, it doesn't close the contacts. | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, hehe. | 21:45 |
| Xamusk | in doubt, make an option | 21:45 |
| timeless | konttori: my problem is that my average call *fails* | 21:45 |
| timeless | so i want | 21:45 |
| timeless | xamusk: NO | 21:45 |
| timeless | see earlier | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, yeah, bad plan. | 21:45 |
| timeless | get it right or leave it alone | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially on a mobile device where finding options that need scrolling to is damn near impossible for a lot of people. | 21:45 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: changes base look - how? | 21:45 |
| Xamusk | there's never a complete "right" dealing with user preferences | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, i.e., not black and gradiented. | 21:46 |
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| timeless | konttori: well, replaces the pin entry borders would be a nice start | 21:46 |
| konttori | oh, nuvofre is almost totally white | 21:46 |
| timeless | enable a pin, install "reflect" and reboot | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, Ian is working on a beige-based theme, but other than that it's all seemingly small changes. | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, link? | 21:46 |
| konttori | and at least most of the themes in ovi store are mostly white if I remember correctly | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, for instance: http://maemo-freak.com/images/stories/0articles/2010/01/alfa/alfa.jpg | 21:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which pretty much screams "Digital Nature - Green" to me. | 21:47 |
| timeless | store has content? | 21:47 |
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| konttori | that seems to be a copy of the devel theme | 21:47 |
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| konttori | well, nicely made one | 21:47 |
| timeless | heh | 21:48 |
| Xamusk | so, will maemo5 ever be available for poor people with N800 like me? | 21:48 |
| timeless | ~mer | 21:48 |
| infobot | it has been said that mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer | 21:48 |
| timeless | xamusk ^ | 21:48 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: I have to rebuild nuvo and upload. Will take a sec. WIll upload then. | 21:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hate having the stupid "Software Installed/Updated" Hildon Note in h-a-m pull input focus to the freaking BACKGROUND application. | 21:48 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: fixed in pr1.2 | 21:49 |
| timeless | oh, nice | 21:49 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: do you want the theme with smaller fonts or will default fonts do? | 21:49 |
| timeless | is there a public bug tracking that? | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, default's fine. | 21:49 |
| konttori | no idea | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, not as far as I'm aware. | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, I've been planning on filing that one for weeks. | 21:49 |
| timeless | gan: can you fix that | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, not until I know it's not going to be lost in another database fsck-up. | 21:50 |
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| Xamusk | damn!... apt just restarted my tablet | 21:50 |
| konttori | well, maemo.org servers will be upgraded next week, so perhaps hold on until that | 21:50 |
| timeless | gan: have you enabled all bugjmail? | 21:50 |
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| timeless | then you can refile from your archives | 21:51 |
| Klowner | is browser_dbuscmd.sh supposed to launch microb, any arguments required or anything? | 21:51 |
| timeless | you probably need load_url | 21:51 |
| timeless | and a url | 21:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, god no. | 21:52 |
| odin_ | why is ./configure trying to run a binary built for the target (and not the host/build) ? could it be something to do with the odd: "uname -m = arm" on this X86 box ? | 21:52 |
| xorAxAx | konttori: from 770 to n900? :) | 21:52 |
| timeless | klowner, and technically it sends a dbus command to whatever browser is | 21:52 |
| timeless | odin: sbox is... | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'd be really nice to get some sort of update to know what is going on. | 21:52 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: testing the theme now, will upload if it works | 21:52 |
| timeless | roughly a bad arm machine | 21:53 |
| Klowner | timeless: ahh, hrmm. I'm trying to hunt down the cause of microb not launching at all :/ | 21:53 |
| guysoft22 | hi all, is there a package for maemo 4 for pocket sphinx? | 21:53 |
| timeless | and configure needs to know if the binaries it makes work | 21:53 |
| timeless | otherwise it's wasting time | 21:53 |
| timeless | klwoner: install crash-report and sysklogd | 21:54 |
| * timeless goes home | 21:54 | |
| odin_ | huh.... it a tool is required to build the project, it should use the host/build compiler for that and run that, but it doesn't need to know if the target binaries work, that is not part of the "build" phase... it would be part of the "test" phase | 21:54 |
| Klowner | timeless: ah good thinkin, I shall | 21:54 |
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| odin_ | so scratchbox is not a "cross-complication platform" ? what is the best cross-complication platform for N900 ? | 21:54 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: works. Uploading now. | 21:54 |
| xorAxAx | odin_: sure it is | 21:56 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/7211/nuvofre_all.deb | 21:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, cool. | 21:56 |
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| *** hrww is now known as hrw-n900 | 21:56 | |
| odin_ | how do I fix this brain damaged "uname -m = arm" on an Intel box ? that is plain incorrect | 21:56 |
| hrw-n900 | ehlo | 21:56 |
| slonopotamus | odin_, by deinstalling scratchbox. | 21:57 |
| hrw-n900 | odin_: curse developer of app | 21:57 |
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| hrw-n900 | slonopotamus: crapbox breaks even that? omg | 21:57 |
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| odin_ | why does "deinstalling" help ? since I can just exit scratchbox | 21:58 |
| xorAxAx | odin_: in which target are you? | 21:58 |
| slonopotamus | odin_, to prevent reoccurences of this bug :) | 21:58 |
| odin_ | I am currently trying with: ./configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi (which is the same as the CC cross-compiler) | 21:59 |
| xorAxAx | real men use a hexeditor to cross compile | 21:59 |
| xorAxAx | odin_: in which target are you operating? | 21:59 |
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| odin_ | arm-none-linux-gnueabi aka FREMANTLE_ARMEL | 21:59 |
| xorAxAx | then arm is correct for the uname -m output | 21:59 |
| * Myrtti is shocked; even I knew that | 22:00 | |
| odin_ | unset SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE <<-- seems to fix uname -a back to sanity | 22:00 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: lemme know what you hate about that theme | 22:00 |
| odin_ | no uname is the HOST | 22:00 |
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| odin_ | its a HOST command to determinte the HOST system, it has nothing to do with a cross-complication target | 22:00 |
| mkargar_ | maemo extra repo still is down? | 22:00 |
| hrw-n900 | konttori: how goes pr1.0.1 work? | 22:01 |
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| xorAxAx | konttori: when is 1.0.1 and 1.2 planned to be released? | 22:01 |
| hrw-n900 | odin_: if software uses uname to check arch then it is plainky broken | 22:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | cross-complicaton. neat :) | 22:02 |
| hrw-n900 | xorAxAx: no 1.1? | 22:02 |
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| odin_ | it is ./configure using it, to build, it the use of it, is correct | 22:02 |
| konttori | xorAxAx: non-discloasable information. well, as I said on friday, 101 release is approved, so expect very very soon | 22:02 |
| hrw-n900 | odin_: or configure.ac uses it... | 22:03 |
| konttori | 1.1 soonish | 22:03 |
| konttori | 1.2 not so soon | 22:03 |
| konttori | did that help? | 22:03 |
| odin_ | lol, I dumped scratchbox completelyt and existed it.... and I just run: ./configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi (from the HOST bash prompt and it its running now without errors) | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, OK, looks great. | 22:03 |
| odin_ | s/existed/exited/ | 22:03 |
| infobot | odin_ meant: lol, I dumped scratchbox completelyt and exited it.... and I just run: ./configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi (from the HOST bash prompt and it its running now without errors) | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, one complaint is that the pannable area background doesn't contrast enough against the menubar. | 22:03 |
| xorAxAx | konttori: as you might know more than others, how is maemo pronounced? | 22:04 |
| hrw-n900 | konttori: 1.1 will be about 24.12.2010 - just as announced | 22:04 |
| konttori | good point. SHould fix it | 22:04 |
| lcukx200 | xorAxAx, talk.maemo.org has the answer properly | 22:04 |
| lcukx200 | hey konttori | 22:04 |
| konttori | hrw-n900: lol | 22:04 |
| xorAxAx | lcukx200: where? | 22:04 |
| Klowner | ah-ha, it was browser-switchboard that made it screwy | 22:04 |
| hrw-n900 | konttori: it was said that 1.1 will be around xmas | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, "PR1.2 not as soon" is more appropriately vague. ;) | 22:05 |
| konttori | well, we want to have enough dev time between 1.1 and 1.2 so that the release feels more like a proper release. | 22:05 |
| * hrw-n900 wants base system upgraded to Lenny instead of that disaster mix which maemo5 is now | 22:05 | |
| RST38h | Anyone knows WHEN 1.1 will be at all? =) | 22:06 |
| konttori | also due to e.g. recertification of bluetooth that we need to do thanks to the bug about sharing files over bt, things just take some time for pr1.2 | 22:06 |
| hrw-n900 | RST38h: xmas? | 22:06 |
| lcukx200 | xorAxAx, theres a thread called "pronouncing maemo" | 22:06 |
| lcukx200 | jesus himself answered and gave definitiative answer | 22:06 |
| lcukx200 | cant get more authorative than that | 22:06 |
| * RST38h obviously expects sticky Ctrl+I and Ctrl+O in the browser =) | 22:06 | |
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| lcukx200 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=287259#post287259 | 22:06 |
| timeless | klowner, please file a nug | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | xorAxAx, it's a made-up word, so there's really no "right" way. | 22:06 |
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| timeless | and explain what caused it | 22:07 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The Tentacled One has not voiced His opinion yet though | 22:07 |
| Klowner | timeless: to where shall nugs be filed? | 22:07 |
| Fredrik1994 | 3days to go. :D | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | xorAxAx, wikipedia should still have the IPA for the most common way, however. | 22:07 |
| timeless | bugs.maemo.org | 22:07 |
| Klowner | ohhh, bugs.. :) | 22:07 |
| timeless | oh | 22:07 |
| timeless | before you file | 22:08 |
| lcukx200 | GeneralAntilles, see the link, do you forget so easily that jesuscliment (guy who nurtured maemo at the very start) answered | 22:08 |
| timeless | enable all bug ail | 22:08 |
| lcukx200 | you thanked him and posted about it afterwards | 22:08 |
| xorAxAx | GeneralAntilles: i expect this to be set by nokia, like UI interface guidelines | 22:08 |
| xorAxAx | s/guideliens/specs/ | 22:08 |
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| timeless | the monkeys running bugzilla's db have been making a mess | 22:08 |
| Jaffa | xorAxAx: Every Nokian (that I've heard) uses a pronounciation closest to the English "my-moe" (as in "my", meaning belonging to me; and "moe" as in the bartender in The Simpsons) | 22:09 |
| * timeless prefers may-moe | 22:09 | |
| xorAxAx | Jaffa: i wonder how they came up with that | 22:09 |
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| timeless | random generator | 22:09 |
| timeless | seriously | 22:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcukx200, er, I haven't forgotten, but since it's still a made-up word there really is no proper pronunciation. | 22:09 |
| hrw-n900 | timeless: indeed. few bugs got lost during transition | 22:10 |
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| mkargar__ | maemo extra repo still is down? | 22:10 |
| lcukx200 | the firtst guy to utter the word gets dibs | 22:10 |
| xorAxAx | ok, i have to remember that it is maemo | 22:10 |
| timeless | hrw: are we done eating bugs? | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcukx200, that'd be completely unverifiable. ;) | 22:10 |
| xorAxAx | my-moe i mean | 22:10 |
| hrw-n900 | timeless: about 20 if not more | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcukx200, how many combinations of five letters do you think there are? ;) | 22:10 |
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| timeless | sure, but | 22:11 |
| timeless | hrw: are we done eating bugs? | 22:11 |
| hrw-n900 | timeless: few days ago I reported 7792 and now we are at 7788 | 22:11 |
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| timeless | i lost one about bug db dataloss :o | 22:11 |
| hrw-n900 | I have such one on a list to report | 22:12 |
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| hrw-n900 | but reporting from n900 is not comfortable | 22:12 |
| lcukx200 | GeneralAntilles, 11 881 376 | 22:12 |
| hrw-n900 | lcukx200: using 24 letters? | 22:13 |
| lcukx200 | not in my alphabet | 22:13 |
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| hrw-n900 | abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz is 26 even... (we do not use x v too much) | 22:14 |
| lcukx200 | but it was done with random generator | 22:14 |
| lcukx200 | not that it matters :D | 22:15 |
| w00t | int rand() { return 4; } | 22:15 |
| lcukx200 | :D w00t | 22:15 |
| w00t | :) | 22:15 |
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| zash | http://xkcd.com/221/ | 22:19 |
| Klowner | is there a big list of exciting dbus events to play with somewhere? | 22:20 |
| konttori | looks like devel is missing xsltproc. I cannot install mplayer without it | 22:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | Klowner: bug 7337? | 22:22 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7337 Browser won't open, no error code | 22:22 |
| timeless_mbp | Klowner: there's a file somewhere in the sdk w/ browser dbus commands | 22:23 |
| * lcukx200 waves @ RevdKathy | 22:23 | |
| Stskeeps | hrw-n900: got a new bug # for the calendar source bug? | 22:23 |
| timeless_mbp | we have a couple of verbs | 22:23 |
| * RevdKathy waves back at lcukx200 | 22:23 | |
| Klowner | timeless_mbp: I just posted a question on 7337, I'll post a full bug if that dude doesn't have browser-switchboard | 22:24 |
| odin_ | ok this combination works for me, setup scratchbox in FREEMANTLE_X86 target, scratchbox/login, run: unset SBOX_UNAME_MACHINE, run: PATH="/scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/:$PATH", then run: ./configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=arm-none-linux-gnueabi, this means for built tools it uses "gcc" which emits X86 and for cross-compile is uses prefixed toolchain arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc | 22:24 |
| odin_ | bash: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | Klowner: thanks! :) | 22:24 |
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| Klowner | timeless_mbp: vurry welcome | 22:24 |
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| xorAxAx | odin_: why dont you use arm for the build tools? | 22:24 |
| odin_ | xorAxAx, the built tools (as in programs created during building to help built the final executable) need to run on the local system, and the local system is i686 | 22:25 |
| lcukx200 | kathy, chinese curry sounds wrong | 22:25 |
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| xorAxAx | odin_: no | 22:25 |
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| odin_ | xorAxAx, the above is how I cross compiled before (for MIPS when I worked on that) you use a prefixed-toolchain for all cross-compiling | 22:25 |
| xorAxAx | odin_: scratchbox uses arm emulation | 22:25 |
| odin_ | xorAxAx, well it doesn't work and I don't really need it to work, for building stuff | 22:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | konttori, also. | 22:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, have you considered dropping the blue? | 22:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, switch to grayscale? | 22:26 |
| konttori | in nuvo? | 22:26 |
| konttori | could do | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, flatter, grayscale icons. | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | (for the Dashboard, X, etc) | 22:27 |
| konttori | the icons would be a lot of work | 22:27 |
| konttori | if you can find a good bw icon set, I could consider htat | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: btw, where is your theme? | 22:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | i want to see a theme that doesn't suck | 22:28 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/7211/nuvofre_all.deb | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: i just had chinese curry | 22:28 |
| hrw-n900 | Stskeeps: need to rerepor it. so tomorrow | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: eww, a deb? | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | can't you at least run a repo? even i run a repo | 22:28 |
| konttori | oh, it will suck, but it sucks differently | 22:28 |
| hrw-n900 | timeless_mbp: so do I | 22:29 |
| odin_ | yay yes, good idea, chinese curry time | 22:29 |
| konttori | I don't have the time to setup one. | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | hrw-n900: thanks - cc carsten.munk at gmail.com when you do | 22:29 |
| * hrw-n900 off. movie time | 22:29 | |
| hrw-n900 | Stskeeps: ok | 22:29 |
| hrw-n900 | bye all | 22:29 |
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| lcukx200 | konttori, why isnt it in extras-devel | 22:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | konttori: it can't find the font you supposedly have in /opt/yourtheme | 22:31 |
| konttori | lcukx200: I didn't have the time to upload it there | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, it definitely feels different | 22:32 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: yeah, as it's not using the font | 22:32 |
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| odin_ | it is possible to safely install my ./configure package into an empty root tree (at some arbitrary directory) ? | 22:32 |
| * lcukx200 nods | 22:32 | |
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| red | found a way to crash my N900 and reproduce it every time - create an ad hoc on Windows 7 and connect phone into it, launch browser on random site after the connection is up | 22:33 |
| red | hmm | 22:33 |
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| odin_ | I want --prefix=/usr/local but wish to force install to an arbitrary root: $HOME/somedir/ which makes it create dir/files at $HOME/somedir/usr/local/ | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | red: crash what | 22:34 |
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| konttori | timeless_mbp: you need to kill hildon-desktop to get the new launcher icons to show up. | 22:35 |
| konttori | (fixed in pr1.2 though ;) | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: is ... gah | 22:35 |
| frals | great, the downside with the cinema... stuck next to a real smeller for 2hrs and 40mins | 22:36 |
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| konttori | red: ad hoc network is pretty unstable afaik | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: do i need to restart image-viewer? | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: that image viewer has a black background feels entirely out of place | 22:39 |
| konttori | they have hardcoded the bg color! | 22:40 |
| konttori | lol!!! | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | file a public bug | 22:40 |
| konttori | you surprised about that? | 22:40 |
| konttori | I should. | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i've worked for nokia for more than 1 day | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | so, no.. i'm not | 22:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | the im text area sucks | 22:41 |
| konttori | vkb? | 22:42 |
| Gadgetoid_nc10 | hardcoding ftw! soft coding is too squishy | 22:42 |
| konttori | the | 22:42 |
| konttori | 22:42 | |
| konttori | th | 22:42 |
| konttori | e | 22:42 |
| konttori | new or the old? | 22:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | no, conversations | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm using 51-1 | 22:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | the primary text input | 22:46 |
| timeless_mbp | for replying to a live im chat | 22:47 |
| konttori | oh. that's browser runtime, right? | 22:47 |
| wazd | konttori: any chance to see Carbide.UI for maemo? :) | 22:48 |
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| konttori | no chance | 22:48 |
| wazd | konttori: heh :) | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: no | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | the text input is hildon | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | isn't it? | 22:49 |
| wazd | konttori: I thought Nokia actually uses it for maemo theming :) | 22:49 |
| konttori | I always thought it was runtime, as it's also having those nice smileys and such | 22:49 |
| * timeless_mbp can't remember | 22:49 | |
| konttori | but I could be wrong | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | i should go check | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it might be | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | if it's browser, then the right thing to do is to swap in css files for the app | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | that's definitely doable | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, which stupid TV solution do you have? | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm using Welho in HEL proper | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | and my video signal is falling apart | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it's depressing | 22:50 |
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| konttori | same for me. the welho internet traffic is killing tv reception | 22:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh cute | 22:53 |
| timeless_mbp | is there a way to complain to them? | 22:53 |
| timeless_mbp | because i'm not paying for crappy boxes | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | and i am paying for TV | 22:54 |
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| Caesium | is there no way to create new contact groups on the N900 or am I missing it? | 22:55 |
| Caesium | I've only got SIM Card Contacts and no visible way to make newones | 22:55 |
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| Jef91 | How to I get rid of .gz off the end of a file? Tar didn't work >.< | 22:55 |
| Caesium | gunzip | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | Caesium: no groups exist :) | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | you could try writing a plugin to provide groups | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | but it wouldn't work for much | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | you couldn't send an sms to a group | 22:56 |
| Caesium | :( | 22:56 |
| Jef91 | thanks Caesium | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | or an email to a group | 22:56 |
| Caesium | I liked that on my E90 | 22:56 |
| Caesium | sms to group was dead handy at times | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | Caesium: or any older phone | 22:57 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: why not? | 22:57 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: group SMS is quite possible as is group email | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: unimplemented/unspeced/unrequired feature | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: in maemo5? | 22:57 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - fair enough | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not talking about 'in the world' or 'in software' | 22:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I though t you were arguing it was fundsamentally uimpossible - not ... | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | fundamentally with the software on the device, yes! :) | 22:58 |
| wazd | maybe someone can check "conversations" source code to see where it grabs theme colors? | 22:58 |
| * timeless_mbp visits http://www.welho.fi/en | 22:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: it uses browser css files | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but it has its own profile | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | so someone could drop in a userChrome.css or userContent.css into the user's profile directory | 22:58 |
| Proteous | yep att data still sucks on the n900 | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc "reflect" tries to mess around w/ conversations | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | Proteous: eh/context? | 22:59 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: can it be embeded into theme file? :) | 22:59 |
| Proteous | thought it might have just beenmy n97 | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: *shrug*, as i said, reflect tries | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i have no idea how themes work | 22:59 |
| konttori | timeless: we just discussed this week about making group sms more obvious | 22:59 |
| Proteous | but I getthe same increadable lag on the n900 | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: are you saying it isn't impossible? | 23:00 |
| lcukx200 | :S should theme be mucking with css for specific apps, what happens when more apps start to use the browser engine | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | if themes can include arranging one symlink | 23:00 |
| konttori | basic idea is that on the write sms to single person view, the menu would include option to add multiple recipients | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | then it'd be fairly doable | 23:00 |
| *** Firebird has quit IRC | 23:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: themes make specific ui for each gtk app anyway | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | this is no different | 23:00 |
| Proteous | works fine for 10 econds then freezes for 30 wash rinse repeate | 23:00 |
| konttori | so, it's definitely possible to make it more obvious how to create group sms:s | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: err | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | i know i can send an sms to multiple people | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | but that's distinct from having a contact group | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | and saying "send sms to group" | 23:01 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 23:01 | |
| timeless_mbp | Welho is open 6 days a week | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | not including Sunday | 23:01 |
| konttori | ah, you mean, you want to be able to create groups. | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | what kind of crappy country do you have | 23:01 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: I was outbid! | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: that is what Caesium asked for, yes | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: and traveling around Europe, i met one class of people who use that feature heavily | 23:02 |
| wazd | konttori: why not just have "send to" button with the check menu under for groups/users selection? | 23:02 |
| konttori | ah. well, yeah, the code is there so, we could easily add the group support | 23:02 |
| Proteous | clicking on links in the teminal to open them inthe browser == win though | 23:02 |
| wazd | konttori: I don't know how it works now though :) | 23:02 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: can we do it for 1.2? :) | 23:03 |
| wazd | and "add number" field ofcourse | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: preferably for each of IM/SMS/Mail | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | can skype do conference calls? | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: how big is a conference? | 23:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | dunno. | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | >2 | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.skype.com/allfeatures/conferencecall/ | 23:04 |
| *** Guest69763 has joined #maemo | 23:05 | |
| timeless_mbp | skype itself definitely supports it | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i think based on the discussion above that our ui couldn't | 23:05 |
| mece | I've done it several times. but I don'ät see any way on N900 to initiate conference call | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure how skype actually manages conferences | 23:05 |
| mece | I'll try it right now... wait up. | 23:05 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: one host, 7 clients | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | my understanding is that the n900 doesn't really have the resources to manage more than two connections | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: and you want your n900 to host the 7 clients? :) | 23:06 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: you mean can we add group support for 1.2? I can ask Hilkka if she's willing to have it and Jörgen if he and his guys can deliver | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 23:06 |
| konttori | I think the UI issues might be the blockers | 23:06 |
| * Caesium cheers for konttori :) | 23:06 | |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: well, Marketing guys told that it's uber-duper-powerful and stuff :D | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: also for mail | 23:06 |
| konttori | so, I don't think it can make it in time for 1.2 | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll take 1.2.next (whatever that number is) | 23:07 |
| mece | ok nobody want's to skype conference with me :) | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | we already support showing groups | 23:07 |
| konttori | PE1 | 23:07 |
| Caesium | being able to create a new group, and put a contact in a group, would be nice for starters. | 23:07 |
| lcukx200 | timeless, the n900 supports being part of a torrent | 23:07 |
| Caesium | indeed you can view groups already | 23:07 |
| wazd | konttori: if you've understood what timeless told bout conversations bug, can you fix this? :) | 23:07 |
| lcukx200 | theres >25 connections | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: fix what? | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | which conversations "bug"? | 23:08 |
| konttori | wazd: you mean add support for groups? | 23:08 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5649&stc=1&d=1263110990 that | 23:08 |
| konttori | it's not easy fix, as it needs groups management | 23:08 |
| mece | that's not a bug, it's a feature to be added afaik. | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 23:08 |
| wazd | konttori: no, theming :) | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | that depends on what a theme can do when it's activated | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | can it arbitrarily map around files? | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | i understand he's able to replace non theme icon files | 23:09 |
| *** woglinde has joined #maemo | 23:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | which means he seems to have a fair bit of power | 23:09 |
| woglinde | jo | 23:09 |
| woglinde | http://planet.webkit.org/ | 23:09 |
| woglinde | args | 23:09 |
| woglinde | wrong | 23:09 |
| woglinde | http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/01/06/qt-graphics-and-performance-opengl/ | 23:09 |
| konttori | oh, timeless_mbp so, can browser take those files from theme directory? | 23:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | konttori: is there a 'symlink' for the 'active' theme? | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't understand how things understand 'theme' | 23:10 |
| konttori | Hmm... I'll have to check. A sec... | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | at least, the theme switcher i wrote for mer seemed to just write a stupid gtkrc file | 23:10 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: I wonder why conversations are themed that stupid way | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: it isn't stupid | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | so if you speak further | 23:11 |
| lcukx200 | wazd different application framework | 23:11 |
| Chiku | hey about rdesktop how can you do right mouse click? | 23:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm leaving. | 23:11 |
| lcukx200 | theme you are thinking is a gtk theme | 23:11 |
| timeless_mbp | is that clear? -- the answer better be "crystal" | 23:11 |
| lcukx200 | the browser ui apps arent part of that | 23:11 |
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| woglinde | cioa timeless | 23:11 |
| timeless_mbp | woglinde: oh, i'll wait for an answer | 23:11 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd be rude for me to leave first | 23:11 |
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| * timeless_mbp returns to cursing Welho | 23:11 | |
| konttori | I think selected theme is written to a gconf key, but I might be mistaken | 23:12 |
| * timeless_mbp wants a refund | 23:12 | |
| konttori | I'll have to ask the devs tomorrow. | 23:12 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: so, you'd probably need a daemon which listens to that key and rewrites a symlink | 23:12 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd be doable | 23:12 |
| wazd | lcukx200: it can't be coded to grab proper files from the theme? | 23:12 |
| wazd | lcukx200: I don't beleive it :) | 23:12 |
| lcukx200 | wazd, the browser css stuff doesnt work that way | 23:12 |
| Chiku | is it possible to simulate right mouse click? | 23:13 |
| lcukx200 | just like any website doesnt | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: the "theme" as you see it is an imaginary vacuous concept | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | the browser works with these strange things called "files" | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and files live in these other strange things called "paths" | 23:13 |
| lcukx200 | wazd, imagine how much work it would be to get your website to adapt to end users theme | 23:13 |
| moo-_- | timeless_mbp: problems with welho? | 23:13 |
| * moo-_- = no problems | 23:13 | |
| woglinde | *g* | 23:13 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: any chance of browser using the same panning acceleration as gtk? | 23:13 |
| woglinde | hi moo | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | moo-_-: i'm getting incredibly blocking content | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: my initial reaction is "Forget about it" | 23:13 |
| moo-_- | timeless_mbp: they block something? | 23:13 |
| mece | Chiku, what version? | 23:14 |
| konttori | (swipe while panning is ongoing, will accumulate to the existing panning speed) | 23:14 |
| crashanddie | lcukx200: with a plug-in for the browser that would send an http-header including the theme, not so much | 23:14 |
| timeless_mbp | moo-_-: are you familiar w/ mpeg? | 23:14 |
| lcukx200 | browser apps work in systems where gtk simply does not exist, so making it require a gtk theme is... | 23:14 |
| Chiku | maemo 5 | 23:14 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: why (out of curiosity) | 23:14 |
| wazd | lcukx200: if website is located on the same server with UI and UI is built up with images - piece a cake | 23:14 |
| lcukx200 | crashanddie, hyperthetical | 23:14 |
| moo-_- | timeless_mbp: part of my work description... | 23:14 |
| timeless_mbp | moo-_-: so, the video for cable is mpeg (roughly) | 23:14 |
| wazd | lcukx200: Even I can do that :D | 23:14 |
| moo-_- | timeless_mbp: they block streaming protocols? | 23:14 |
| lcukx200 | same wazd | 23:14 |
| timeless_mbp | and what i'm getting are very large blocks | 23:14 |
| mece | Chiku, hmm no ideal. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9835&page=2 says "menu key" Don't even know what that is :) Never had an N800 | 23:14 |
| lcukx200 | go on then | 23:14 |
| timeless_mbp | which are never coallescing into a clear picture | 23:14 |
| moo-_- | timeless_mbp: aah... you are talking about TV, not internet | 23:14 |
| lcukx200 | make your site adapt to the theme on the compputer | 23:15 |
| timeless_mbp | moo-_-: uh huh | 23:15 |
| crashanddie | lcukx200: we're talking about having a website adapt to work according to a maemo theme? | 23:15 |
| moo-_- | ? | 23:15 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe this is a strange concept? | 23:15 |
| lcukx200 | see just what you are up against | 23:15 |
| timeless_mbp | is watching proper TV forbidden in this stupid country? | 23:15 |
| moo-_- | timeless_mbp: I am having Welho internet connection only | 23:15 |
| crashanddie | timeless: if you're in the US, yes | 23:15 |
| Chiku | if you use rdp or vnc or lxde | 23:15 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, my tv works just fine. | 23:15 |
| Chiku | andf you want right mouse click | 23:15 |
| wazd | lcukx200: I'm not talking even about images | 23:15 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: which tv provider are you using? | 23:15 |
| lcukx200 | no crashanddie we are talking about having a custom app written using the web engine, and css styling etc to adapt to the gtk theme | 23:15 |
| mece | turku cable | 23:16 |
| crashanddie | Chiku: macs have right mouse click ;) | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | moo-_-: my employer pays for Elisa | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | which seems to be more reliable atm | 23:16 |
| crashanddie | lcukx200: oh, ok, hard | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | so i pay for Welho, but only for tv | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm getting crap | 23:16 |
| mece | Toni Halme is dead? | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd complain right now | 23:16 |
| moo-_- | timeless_mbp: all finnish digital television broadcasts are quite underrated what comes to bitstream, I think. | 23:16 |
| wazd | lcukx200: it's a matter of plugging in theme colors.css into the code | 23:16 |
| Chiku | any bind to have right mouse click? like crtl+click | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | but their service hours don't include sundays | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | or evenings | 23:16 |
| moo-_- | timeless_mbp: I have seen block artifacts everywhere... not just on cable | 23:16 |
| lcukx200 | wazd, into what code? | 23:16 |
| crashanddie | Chiku: which platform> | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | moo-_-: this is *much* worse than it used to be | 23:16 |
| Chiku | fremantle | 23:16 |
| wazd | lcukx200: conversations obviously | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | just in the last couple of weeks | 23:16 |
| mece | crashanddie, he said maemo 5 | 23:16 |
| lcukx200 | no wazd, conversations isnt code | 23:16 |
| crashanddie | Chiku: long click? | 23:16 |
| lcukx200 | its css | 23:17 |
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| crashanddie | Chiku: tap and hold | 23:17 |
| lcukx200 | well the bit you are interested in | 23:17 |
| Chiku | oh | 23:17 |
| RevdKathy | 'night all | 23:17 |
| wazd | lcukx200: framework, whatever | 23:17 |
| lcukx200 | how to extract related bit of theme | 23:17 |
| woglinde | nite kathy | 23:17 |
| mece | crashanddie, that's sweet! | 23:17 |
| Chiku | ok I try again | 23:17 |
| lcukx200 | and put it in related bits of css | 23:17 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: so, gtk theme color mapping should be available | 23:17 |
| timeless_mbp | if someone wants to try to use that | 23:17 |
| lcukx200 | its a translation device you want | 23:17 |
| wazd | lcukx200: it should look like all other OS or what's the point of theming then | 23:17 |
| timeless_mbp | but typically themers want a lot more control than that | 23:17 |
| mece | Chiku, is rdesktop stable? | 23:17 |
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| lcukx200 | wazd, you forget the point | 23:17 |
| timeless_mbp | they want to control shapes, borders, thicknesses, | 23:17 |
| Chiku | I use rdesktop-cli | 23:17 |
| crashanddie | wazd & lcukx200: glade on steroids? | 23:17 |
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| lcukx200 | gtk apps accept gtk themes | 23:18 |
| timeless_mbp | they want to actually write *css* | 23:18 |
| lcukx200 | other frameworks apps dont | 23:18 |
| Chiku | gui rdesktop failed because server map port | 23:18 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 23:18 | |
| Chiku | and server:port on rdesktop gui not work | 23:18 |
| * timeless_mbp should just give up on tv | 23:18 | |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: the only thing I want is working theme :) | 23:18 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: i'd settle for a working build | 23:18 |
| Chiku | but rdesktop-cli server:port works fine | 23:18 |
| * timeless_mbp has burned the last couple | 23:18 | |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, good plan. It rots your brain, anyway. | 23:18 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, nothing good is on anyway :) | 23:18 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: because without that all my work is absolutely useless | 23:19 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: i'm trying to watch Terminator | 23:19 |
| timeless_mbp | (chronicles) | 23:19 |
| mece | is it on now? | 23:19 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: yes | 23:19 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, awesome! | 23:19 |
| timeless_mbp | on Sub | 23:19 |
| lcukx200 | wazd your theme is in use with gtk stuff isnt it? | 23:19 |
| timeless_mbp | if you get a better picture, can you save it for me? | 23:19 |
| lcukx200 | thats what you wrote the them for | 23:19 |
| wazd | lcukx200: people cant use sms with my theme -> it's useless | 23:20 |
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| * GeneralAntilles hadn't realized maemo.org was sponsoring racing. http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4263150331/ | 23:20 | |
| lcukx200 | why not? is it unreadable? | 23:20 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, the hd on my dvr is busted. sorry. | 23:20 |
| lcukx200 | does conversations accept some of it? | 23:20 |
| wazd | lcukx200: http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5649&stc=1&d=1263110990 | 23:20 |
| lcukx200 | or does conversations look exactly the same as it did before | 23:20 |
| lcukx200 | oh, that is fucked | 23:21 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: ... | 23:21 |
| wazd | lcukx200: orly :) | 23:21 |
| lcukx200 | lol | 23:21 |
| lcukx200 | now i see bit of point | 23:21 |
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| Chiku | crashanddie, no tap and hold it's not right click | 23:21 |
| lcukx200 | some of the base window attribs are being switched, but the css stuff isnt | 23:21 |
| * lcukx200 ponders | 23:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: this is because some of the colors are written to use gtk bits | 23:21 |
| timeless_mbp | and some aren't | 23:21 |
| Chiku | it's more like left click and hold | 23:21 |
| timeless_mbp | and whichever colors they picked are obviously wrong | 23:21 |
| wazd | lcukx200: theme has colors.css | 23:21 |
| lcukx200 | ^ | 23:21 |
| timeless_mbp | which is typical | 23:21 |
| Chiku | for drag and drop | 23:21 |
| wazd | lcukx200: there are options for conversations | 23:22 |
| timeless_mbp | guessing how colors works is hard | 23:22 |
| wazd | lcukx200: like bubble backgrounds and stuff | 23:22 |
| lcukx200 | i can see | 23:22 |
| wazd | lcukx200: but there are no options for bubble font or main background | 23:22 |
| lcukx200 | the photo says it all | 23:22 |
| lcukx200 | gwell apart from the blacked out bits | 23:22 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: it's like the fact that image viewer's background color is hard coded :) | 23:22 |
| lcukx200 | i gather those arent themed | 23:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and that's a gtk app :) | 23:22 |
| wazd | lcukx200: that's why I've asked to check the source code to see what names conversations use to render background | 23:23 |
| wazd | to add it to colors.css | 23:23 |
| lcukx200 | heh timeles, amount of times that happens in windows too | 23:23 |
| mece | summer glau summer glau :) mmmm | 23:23 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: i haven't seen this much of a problem w/ windows in well over a decade | 23:23 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: are you getting a better picture? | 23:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i can ee the top of someone's head | 23:23 |
| timeless_mbp | but whose head keeps changing | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone happen to know how to get raw inmages from th rear camera? | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | still | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | raw as in non-jpeg'd | 23:24 |
| lcukx200 | see mirror code | 23:24 |
| lcukx200 | create / adjust pipeline | 23:24 |
| * lcukx200 mmms @ conversations mashup | 23:24 | |
| mece | timeless_mbp, no. I google image'd her :) http://cuzoogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/summer-glau-7.png | 23:24 |
| mece | I'm not at the tv | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | lcukx200: hmm. I suppose htey are all connected to one input port, so the code wuld be similar. That works for stills too? | 23:25 |
| lcukx200 | SpeedEvil, gstreamer pipeline can be examined and you can make a sink yourself which gives you the bits | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Sounds like >>5 min job then. Many thanks. | 23:26 |
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| woglinde | hi speedevil | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Idle curiosity - I was wondering about doing some raw benchmarking on the cam sensor. | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | hi | 23:27 |
| *** konttori has quit IRC | 23:27 | |
| *** ssvb has quit IRC | 23:27 | |
| implicit | hello, nokiamessaging had disappeared from the email selections in my email account so i tried to reinstall on apt-get by doing "apt-get remove nokiamessaging" | 23:27 |
| implicit | and then "apt-get install nokiamessaging" | 23:27 |
| timeless_mbp | implicit: um | 23:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i hope you realize just how stupid that was :) | 23:27 |
| implicit | yes | 23:28 |
| implicit | :) | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | apt-get is not an end user solution | 23:28 |
| implicit | i do | 23:28 |
| implicit | and it's not in the repositories that I have | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and the nokia closed bits are not generally available in repositories | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | so it's time to backup | 23:28 |
| red | konttori_nokia: you mean ad hoc is quite unstable on N900 right? | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and grab the flashable image | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and start again | 23:28 |
| implicit | any guide to backing up what I have on there before i reflash? | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | red: konttori dropped off, i'm not sure the other is a useful ghost | 23:28 |
| woglinde | red it has performance problems | 23:28 |
| red | oh | 23:29 |
| woglinde | but the same as on n810 | 23:29 |
| red | alright | 23:29 |
| timeless_mbp | implicit: 1. use the backup to save everything normal | 23:29 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. if you are afraid of losing other stuff, use rsync to store the rest | 23:29 |
| red | well I'm using it temporarily for couple more days to get DSL speed until my wifi works | 23:29 |
| woglinde | red when I copy a 80mb file to n900 it stalls after 2 mb | 23:29 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. only reflash the rootfs, not the emmc | 23:29 |
| woglinde | but manged mode works nice | 23:29 |
| implicit | what is the emmc? | 23:29 |
| red | woglinde: best I got was 60MB downloaded podcasts before phone rebooted again | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | implicit: the built in 32G | 23:30 |
| timeless_mbp | implicit: /home and /home/user/MyDocs are the eMMC | 23:30 |
| timeless_mbp | everything else is basically rootfs | 23:30 |
| red | either the connection doesn't move at all, or the phone resets right on trying to connect, or it works a moment :p | 23:30 |
| lcukx200 | red, red / woglinde i use adhoc often, i have only ever had problems in wifi saturated areas (for some reason, was never able to reproduce) | 23:30 |
| timeless_mbp | (/opt is a symlink into /home, so it's going to be a mess if you've installed stuff there) | 23:30 |
| lcukx200 | my system happily lets me copy do what i need on adhoc | 23:30 |
| implicit | ok | 23:30 |
| implicit | thanks for the help | 23:30 |
| implicit | also, | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | implicit: i hope you learned your lesson :( | 23:31 |
| red | lcukx200: using connection sharing via ad hoc | 23:31 |
| lcukx200 | red how bad is the crash | 23:31 |
| implicit | is there a repo for: "Repository: | 23:31 |
| implicit | Maemo 5 device root filesystem" | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | red: have you installed crash-reporter? | 23:31 |
| red | bad, one time so far had to remove battery | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | implicit: no. | 23:31 |
| implicit | would make things a lot easier if we could just pull those on :-\ | 23:31 |
| lcukx200 | is it working now? | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | implicit: it'd also mean competitors could download the packages onto their own devices | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia has chosen not to offer that | 23:32 |
| red | no, I won't be trying again since I don't really fancy havnig my phone lock up so bad I need to take the battery out while its running :p | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i hope you can understand why | 23:32 |
| lcukx200 | red ok, most people try again if it crashes | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | you aren't supposed to use the xterminal unless you understand what you're doing | 23:32 |
| woglinde | red hm I didnt have reboot in ad-hoc mode | 23:32 |
| red | I did 5 attempts alltogether | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the official way to manage applications is using the graphical application manager | 23:32 |
| red | two times no connectivity, two regular reboots, 1 lock up | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | which should not let you screw up the way you did | 23:32 |
| lcukx200 | red, 5 attempts? it crashed 5 times? | 23:32 |
| red | and my phone has never rebooted before | 23:32 |
| implicit | thanks | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | (well, you could enable a third party repository, but it gives you a fairly stern warning when you do that) | 23:32 |
| red | and as it would be for two days only, so I won't bother =) | 23:33 |
| implicit | do you know if there is a third-party repo for that? | 23:33 |
| implicit | i might as well try it before reflashing | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | implicit: that would be asking for a lawsuit | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | just like if e.g. nokia were stupid enough to host nintendo games | 23:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | presumably nokia isn't stupid enough to do that | 23:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | and presumably no one else is stupid enough to host a copy of nokia's (c)'d bits | 23:34 |
| * timeless_mbp sometimes hates techies | 23:34 | |
| Chiku | about braek, how you close it? | 23:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | "everything's a bit, and the bits don't care" | 23:34 |
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| lcukx200 | wazd, timeless has proper theme bug been filed | 23:35 |
| lcukx200 | about issues raised ^ | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: saying what? | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | technically conversations is themeable | 23:36 |
| lcukx200 | conversations exhibits mismatches with gtk theming | 23:36 |
| lcukx200 | yeah but its mechanism is flawed | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | i certainly haven't filed one | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | the thing is | 23:36 |
| lcukx200 | wazd, you are encountering issue | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | i have no idea what the theme switcher is capable of doing | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | if it's capable of dropping in some extra symlinks | 23:37 |
| lcukx200 | nor i | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | then it's a bug in the theme for not using them | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | and in the theme maker for not exposing them | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | otoh, if the theme switcher isn't capable of doing that | 23:37 |
| lcukx200 | i think this isnt theme engine | 23:37 |
| lcukx200 | this is conversations | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | then imo it's a bug in the theme switcher | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: let's try again | 23:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | as a gtk themer, i have essentially *complete* per gtk app control over my gtk victims | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | not just "gtk color scheme" | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | but "per gtk app color overrides" | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | is that clear? | 23:38 |
| lcukx200 | yes | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | good. | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | w/ gecko, you have that same power | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | now, if the theme switcher doesn't allow you to exercise that | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | then it's at least a bug in the theme switcher | 23:38 |
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| Chiku | haha, I got a bug, it's now at protrait mode for everything and can't rotate it back to horizontal mode | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | now, arguably, there's probably a bug in the default color set | 23:38 |
| lcukx200 | that doesnt appear to be the bug tho, its the color mapping | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | Chiku: sadly, you don't get a prize for discovering that | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: well, the thing is | 23:39 |
| MaemohammadAG | chiku i made a post about it | 23:39 |
| Chiku | oh just need to wait to sleep mode and it's back to normal mode | 23:39 |
| MaemohammadAG | about a month ago | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | as a themer, i'd much prefer that over just color mappings | 23:39 |
| mece | holy shit! starcraft! | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | as for color mappings | 23:39 |
| MaemohammadAG | it's on nokiausers | 23:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | wazd or someone should just fix the css file and *then* post a bug | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | once they get a css file that does what they think is the right thing (tm) | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | no one at nokia is going to be able to figure out what the right thing is | 23:40 |
| lcukx200 | well, if wazd doesnt touch the conversations css file | 23:40 |
| wazd | .MessagingViewBackgroundColor { | 23:40 |
| wazd | background-color: #383838; | 23:40 |
| lcukx200 | shouldnt it look exactly the same as before | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | (except maybe konttori or the other guy who wrote a theme) | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: no | 23:40 |
| MaemohammadAG | Chiku, it can be reproduced easily too | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | because it uses some gtk theme colors :) | 23:40 |
| Chiku | yes I just do it again | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but it's the standard CSS/HTML error | 23:40 |
| MaemohammadAG | you only need braek and a portrait app | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | you can't mix 'some default colors' and 'some color overrides' | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | you either have to 'replace everything' or 'inherit everything' | 23:41 |
| MaemohammadAG | braek crashes part of the system and makes it get stuck in portrait | 23:41 |
| * lcukx200 nods | 23:41 | |
| wazd | the error is that there is no value for background in colors.css | 23:41 |
| Chiku | so I should kill braek app | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and the guys who did the default theme didn't test this | 23:41 |
| MaemohammadAG | then you can use killall braek | 23:41 |
| lcukx200 | and i was under the impression css was a replace everything | 23:41 |
| MaemohammadAG | yeah, it stays in portrait unless you open and close phone | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx200: replace everything is hard | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and clearly they didn't :) | 23:41 |
| lcukx200 | but obviously not | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | but again | 23:41 |
| lcukx200 | yeah | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | as a themer, i'd rather have the ability to replace everything | 23:41 |
| wazd | can somebody just check what I asked? :) | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | much more useful than "pray nokia will get it right" | 23:42 |
| lcukx200 | this issue is going to become MUCH more widespread with qt and the css dui stuff | 23:42 |
| lcukx200 | so it needs looking at properly | 23:42 |
| lcukx200 | so it needs a real bug for someone to investigate surely | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | investigating for maemo5 will not at all help maemo6 | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly at this point, maemo5=konttori | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | and konttori!=maemo6 | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | if that isn't clear... let me know | 23:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | the beginnings of maemo6 are in maemo.gittorious.org or something | 23:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | you're free to grab them and try to put them together | 23:44 |
| timeless_mbp | personally, i am not going to waste my time doing that | 23:44 |
| MaemohammadAG | the n900 is upgradable to maemo6 right? | 23:44 |
| * Caesium was about to ask something similar | 23:45 | |
| Caesium | but Iguess it's so far away it's not to be worried about yet :) | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | really, as long as the theme switcher allows themes to replace file paths from /usr/share/themes/.active/ => /usr/share/themes/my_theme | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | then this isn't really a problem | 23:45 |
| MaemohammadAG | some say it's arriving in may | 23:45 |
| Jaffa | MaemohammadAG: It's neither been confirmed nor denied | 23:45 |
| MaemohammadAG | or in summer | 23:45 |
| MaemohammadAG | Jaffa, ty | 23:45 |
| Jaffa | Caesium: Alpha/beta SDKs are supposed to be appearing shortly (according to the timescales announced at the summit) | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | MaemohammadAG: i think it's fairly safe to assume maemo6 will not appear tomorrow | 23:45 |
| woglinde | I personal dont believe maemo6 will com in the summer | 23:45 |
| MaemohammadAG | i read it somewhere but i can't find it again | 23:46 |
| Jaffa | That would *imply* a release in 2H10. | 23:46 |
| Jaffa | But, timescales slip. Especially Nokia timescales ;-) | 23:46 |
| MaemohammadAG | timeless_mbp, you sure? :p | 23:46 |
| timeless_mbp | no! | 23:46 |
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| MaemohammadAG | thought so. don't spread rumors around timeless_mbp | 23:46 |
| timeless_mbp | .... | 23:46 |
| mikhas | Jaffa, actually "10" could be any year in the future with a summer phase =) | 23:46 |
| timeless_mbp | MaemohammadAG: personally, i'd just look at nokia's record | 23:46 |
| MaemohammadAG | it might be released at midnight | 23:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | well, midnight is 13mins away | 23:47 |
| MaemohammadAG | timeless_mbp, jk mate :) | 23:47 |
| timeless_mbp | generally nokia has released one major os version a year | 23:47 |
| * VDVsx bets maemo6 will not appear tomorrow :D | 23:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | typically near the end of the year | 23:47 |
| * VDVsx wins the bet ;) | 23:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | os2005, os2006, os2007, os2008, os2009 | 23:47 |
| woglinde | VDVsx *g* | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | typically before going on holiday | 23:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: yeah, i wonder why? | 23:47 |
| timeless_mbp | do they want christmas sales? | 23:48 |
| timeless_mbp | could they actually be trying to run a business there? | 23:48 |
| timeless_mbp | unbelievable | 23:48 |
| MaemohammadAG | os2009.01 :p | 23:48 |
| VDVsx | bastards!! | 23:48 |
| MaemohammadAG | lol | 23:48 |
| timeless_mbp | trying to make money.... | 23:48 |
| timeless_mbp | it's absurd | 23:48 |
| mikhas | who killed kenny? | 23:48 |
| timeless_mbp | a travesty! | 23:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | mikhas: Welho! | 23:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Capacitive makes pandas sad. | 23:50 |
| lcukx200 | thats captivity you pratt | 23:50 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, they can use capacitive ? | 23:50 |
| lcukx200 | :p | 23:50 |
| VDVsx | *can't | 23:50 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: so, i'm confused | 23:50 |
| timeless_mbp | w/ konttori's theme | 23:50 |
| timeless_mbp | in conversations | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a solid white background | 23:51 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Not got the dexterity for styli, so I'd posit capacitive makes pandas happy. | 23:51 |
| lcukx200 | Jaffa, they use bamboo shoots | 23:51 |
| VDVsx | true, they have fingers I guess :p | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | oh cute | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i have good colors for GoogleTalk | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and bad colors for SMS | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, everyone knows a panda eats, shoots and leaves. | 23:52 |
| MaemohammadAG | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7771 high priority? | 23:52 |
| povbot` | Bug 7771: Unable to play video through xbox upnp server | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | that's awesome | 23:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | MaemohammadAG: 'no' | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | upnp is not particularly critical | 23:52 |
| * VDVsx -> pandas classic : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzRH3iTQPrk | 23:53 | |
| MaemohammadAG | was just wondering, it didn't sound as a high priority 'bug' | 23:53 |
| MaemohammadAG | it might be a local problem after all | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | MaemohammadAG: reporters can set those fields | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | it doesn't mean people will actually believe them | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | MaemohammadAG, submitter-triage bugged are rarely well prioritized. | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | bugs will get more realistic priorities when someone else touches them | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | lists UPnP for video as the last bullet of the last column | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | hardly a headline | 23:54 |
| MaemohammadAG | kk | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | in 'photography', it falls under 'other' | 23:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | which is pretty impressive | 23:54 |
| * timeless_mbp has no idea what the heck that is btw | 23:54 | |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: we're working on that with Stskeeps right now | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: which? | 23:54 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: I still think it's just a missing style in colors.css | 23:55 |
| timeless_mbp | wazd: there's something odd | 23:55 |
| Jaffa | What happened to the simplified field-set for bug creation? Only certain groups being able to set priority/severity would make bugzilla a) more accessible; b) more accurate | 23:55 |
| timeless_mbp | because GoogleTalk works | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i'm not sure about that theory since they look fairly similar | 23:55 |
| timeless_mbp | and SMS doesn't | 23:55 |
| timeless_mbp | so it should be fairly simple | 23:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | wazd: do you have a device? | 23:56 |
| timeless_mbp | the thing to do is to find the html file which is used for SMS | 23:56 |
| timeless_mbp | and compare it to the one for GoogleTalk | 23:57 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: no | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, waiting on 3.4, I think. | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Speaking of which, some mockups would probably be nice. | 23:57 |
| Chiku | about canola, when you click on choose theme, canola crashes | 23:59 |
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