IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-01-12

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Macer	orangey: so was ryan haha	00:00
GeneralAntilles	alterego, did you put your name the wiki page for loaners?	00:00
orangey	at least you didn't have the bathroom sex guy	00:00
Macer	hahaha... his comments are awesome though. i just busted out laughing when i saw them	00:00
alterego	GeneralAntilles: no, what wiki page?	00:00
Macer	"I'm blacker than Barack Obama. I shined shoes. I grew up in a five-room apartment. My father had a little laundromat in a black community not far from where we lived. I saw it all growing up."	00:01
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GeneralAntilles	alterego, hang on, let me dig it up.	00:01
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GeneralAntilles	alterego, wiki's down, apparently.	00:03
GeneralAntilles	alterego, I'll toss it to you later.	00:04
alterego	Cheers, much appreciated.	00:04
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alterego	Looks like maemo.org is down	00:04
mtd	anybody know where the source code for the modest email client included on the n900 is?	00:04
alterego	Oh wait, back now.	00:04
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alterego	wiki's back Gen	00:04
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sermad	cool thanks - I've got a preproduction N900 and I'm going through the flashing process - I follow the wiki but it doesnt flash - the error I get is this - To flash the bootloader, you have to supply the X-Loader image	00:05
GeneralAntilles	alterego, http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue	00:05
sermad	This was the cmd line I used -> flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_ PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R	00:06
alterego	GeneralAntilles: thank you very much.	00:06
juke__	is there a gtkmozembed in pymaemo ?	00:06
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* mtd finds https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=9		00:07
Stskeeps	mtd: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0 as well has it	00:08
mtd	Stskeeps: thanks.	00:09
woglinde	juke__ dont you need xulrunner for it?	00:09
mtd	it appears I really wanted to find the MailfoExchange source code, unfort.	00:09
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MaemohammadAG	LMAO @ angry birds	00:11
MaemohammadAG	i love it haha	00:12
alterego	GeneralAntilles: There's not many people on that page, how long has it been available, and, have people been successful or is it a work in progress?	00:12
sermad	So has anyone experience my flashing error at all?	00:12
caotic_	So is there an official changelog for the 1.2009.44-1.002 firmware, I only find forum rants.	00:12
ifreq	caotic_: its mostly a bridge patch before 1.1	00:13
GeneralAntilles	alterego, Quim's still working on it.	00:13
alterego	Cool,	00:13
MaemohammadAG	ifreq the themes don't appear to be on the store anymore	00:14
caotic_	So I am guessing no specific fixes or stuff like that ?	00:14
ifreq	MaemohammadAG: oh noes and i removed those!! :P	00:14
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alterego	Well, I hope it pulls through, even if I don't succeed, the karma points scheme was a flawed idea to begin with imo	00:14
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MaemohammadAG	lmao, someone doesn't like that stuff, and we all know what that means (especially if he's a male) :p	00:15
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Jef91	How does the easy-deb-chroot package in the extra-testing work?	00:15
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ifreq	Jef91: easily	00:15
GeneralAntilles	alterego, well, it wouldn't have been bad if they hadn't set the threshold so high.	00:15
MaemohammadAG	Jef91, you install both packages, dl the image and run the part you want	00:15
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MaemohammadAG	as in terminal/LXDE	00:16
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Jef91	Ahh so it sets up a dualboot?	00:16
SpeedEvil	I'd love to know what the expected last quarter sales were for the n900	00:16
alterego	GeneralAntilles: well, was it arbitrarily picked or did they work it out from the top 300 or so members ;)	00:16
SpeedEvil	and q12010	00:16
GeneralAntilles	alterego, it ended up being the top 180 or so.	00:16
alterego	Is that all?	00:17
alterego	I thought it was 350 last time.	00:17
SpeedEvil	alterego: they hated the 301st person.	00:17
alterego	Heh	00:17
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alterego	What about the summit loaners? There were about 300 of those I guess.	00:17
alterego	Has it turned into a perm loan?	00:17
alterego	I was so gutted I went to Iceland Airwaves that weekend :(	00:18
Stskeeps	i still assume i have to hand in mine in april	00:18
alterego	Right,	00:19
alterego	I wonder what they'll do with them, seems a shame really, to waste them down.	00:19
alterego	Stskeeps: do you have two? Were you in the DDP?	00:19
Stskeeps	i was in ddp but never applied.	00:19
Stskeeps	probably get real data on wear,tear and usage	00:20
alterego	Damnit, why didn't you give me your code! :P	00:20
Stskeeps	cos it was tied to my perona	00:20
Stskeeps	persona	00:21
Jef91	anyone else try this other webrowser that is in extra-testing? is it any good?	00:21
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ShadowJK	which?	00:23
ifreq	seems all paid stuff has been removed from ovi MaemohammadAG	00:24
ifreq	atleast according to search	00:24
MaemohammadAG	interesting	00:24
MaemohammadAG	Jef91, no it sets up kind of a virtual machine	00:25
MaemohammadAG	that runs inside maemo	00:25
MaemohammadAG	so if you ctrl backspace ull be in the dashboard	00:25
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Jef91	MaemohammadAG thats pretty sweet! and it runs deb applicatiohns then? any idea how well it works?	00:26
Jef91	applications*	00:26
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MaemohammadAG	it works well	00:27
MaemohammadAG	it has synaptics	00:27
MaemohammadAG	so you can install from the debian repos	00:27
caotic_	anyone experiencing lagyness in the n900 after the update ?	00:27
MaemohammadAG	and you can use dpkg	00:27
MaemohammadAG	caotic_, US device?	00:27
Jef91	omg thats sweet! can it install to my fat32 partition or will it take up space in my rootfs/home	00:27
ml-N900	my device has been quite snappy	00:28
caotic_	MaemohammadAG: yes	00:28
* MaemohammadAG raises his hand		00:28
MaemohammadAG	ml-N900, non-us device?	00:29
ml-N900	waiting on the major update to see if Nokia has fixed the reboot issue	00:29
ml-N900	no, US device	00:29
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caotic_	After phone crashed on me, it sems like is back to normal ...	00:29
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ShadowJK	check the bugzilla bug about the crashes to see which version it's fixed in/if?	00:29
ccooke	Gah! Now my wife's n900 has a broken microusb port	00:31
MaemohammadAG	caotic_, seems to lag a bit, but i can live with that	00:31
ccooke	This is starting to get a little silly	00:31
MaemohammadAG	it's not like it crashes or anything	00:31
MaemohammadAG	ccooke, broken?	00:31
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* ShadowJK thought his was snappier, but that's most likely placebo and freshly booted environment		00:32
ccooke	MaemohammadAG: broken.	00:32
MaemohammadAG	i got that, but how is it broken?	00:32
SplasPood	wow, WC2 on the N900 is actually playable	00:32
MaemohammadAG	wc2?	00:33
ifreq	SplasPood: wc2?	00:33
MaemohammadAG	haha	00:33
juke__	i can't activate red pill mode anyone can help me, i try to install developpement library	00:33
ShadowJK	iirc that was playable on P133?	00:33
SplasPood	ifreq: warcraft2	00:33
MaemohammadAG	juke__, dpkg -i (deb file)	00:33
ccooke	MaemohammadAG: the device won't charge and the usb socket is a little bit wobbly. This was the prelude to my own n900's microusb socket falling out on the 1st.	00:33
MaemohammadAG	in terminal	00:33
MaemohammadAG	with superuser privs	00:33
ccooke	(usb connection doesn't work, of course)	00:33
MaemohammadAG	oh my	00:33
* MaemohammadAG gets a bid worried		00:34
MaemohammadAG	nokia should've used the 2mm connector	00:34
redeeman	SplasPood: stratagus?	00:34
SpeedEvil	they can't	00:34
MaemohammadAG	to avoid problems and enable otg	00:34
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MaemohammadAG	SpeedEvil, why?	00:34
SpeedEvil	microusb has been mandated as a charger in .eu and .cn	00:34
redeeman	not mandated in .eu	00:34
redeeman	but agreed upon	00:34
redeeman	and encouraged	00:35
SpeedEvil	well - yes	00:35
redeeman	you won't actually be forbidden import like in .cn	00:35
ccooke	redeeman: pointedly encouraged, really	00:35
SpeedEvil	And at least it is _a_ standard.	00:35
MaemohammadAG	erm who thought up the idea?	00:35
* MaemohammadAG redies his shotgun		00:35
SplasPood	redeeman: ya	00:35
SpeedEvil	it's quite possible to make rugged microusb connectors.	00:35
MaemohammadAG	readies*	00:35
SpeedEvil	It's just nobody has.	00:35
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ShadowJK	they could've done like with the Nokia E75, both microusb charging and 2mm charging :)	00:35
redeeman	SplasPood: you have packages?	00:36
MaemohammadAG	but otg wouldn't be possible	00:36
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redeeman	i don't see why otg shouldn't also be possible	00:36
MaemohammadAG	officially? cause it's cheaper not having them to figure out the problem	00:36
ShadowJK	the connectors themselves are fine, they're so fine in fact that they don't break under abuse, they stay firmly attached to the microusb plug..... ;)	00:36
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SpeedEvil	On USB. My latest readings of datasheets and stuff raise questions again. The definitive no from someone who had a look at the schematics seems uncategorically wrongheaded.	00:37
SplasPood	redeeman: there's a thread on talk.maemo.org	00:37
MaemohammadAG	unofficially, cause no one has the schematics	00:37
SpeedEvil	MaemohammadAG: some do.	00:37
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ccooke	redeeman: otg is a standard, and the microusb connector is not supported in that standard. USB host mode could be, although there are issues with power.	00:37
MaemohammadAG	SpeedEvil, outside of nokia?	00:37
SpeedEvil	MaemohammadAG: no	00:37
ccooke	(the microusb connector used in the n900, to be specific)	00:37
redeeman	SplasPood: yes and as far as im aware the only reason it cant is that they didn't bother do it on the N900, and that the usb group says its "shouldnt be done", which is a purely artificial limit	00:37
redeeman	ccooke: and yes well the standard can go rape itself	00:37
MaemohammadAG	after reading the clarification	00:38
SpeedEvil	The above would not be OTG - OTG is clearly impossible. Host mode seems not impossible.	00:38
ShadowJK	speedevil: I think it would help to clearly establish first, and in reiterate it continously, that we don't give a rat's ass about OTG.	00:38
MaemohammadAG	i see it's not a data problem	00:38
SpeedEvil	yes.	00:38
ccooke	redeeman: that's the sort of attitude that got us ie 6 :-)	00:38
MaemohammadAG	so if it's a power problem, wouldn't a powered hub just work?	00:38
redeeman	ccooke: no, theres a different between insanity like IE6 and not caring about a strictly artificial limitation brought on by idiot asshats that doesn't know what they are doing	00:38
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I need to get up the energy to get a kernel toolchain setup, and to read over the relevant datasheets if I can find htem, and patch shit	00:38
MaemohammadAG	(never had otg before so i don't know a thing about them)	00:39
ShadowJK	doesn't the sdk work for compiling kernel?	00:39
SpeedEvil	OTG is basically peer-peer USB	00:39
SpeedEvil	mostly	00:39
SplasPood	redeeman: misfire	00:39
MaemohammadAG	SpeedEvil, so if you had the schematics, would it help?	00:39
SpeedEvil	s/toolcahiin/usb/	00:39
SpeedEvil	MaemohammadAG: lots	00:39
redeeman	SplasPood: ah yeah, but now you're still here, do you have packages for wargus?	00:39
MaemohammadAG	and do engineers/repair guys from nokia have them?	00:39
SpeedEvil	no.	00:40
redeeman	SplasPood: and does it support the 800x480?	00:40
MaemohammadAG	so who does?	00:40
ccooke	redeeman: OTG is a specific specification that is utterly impossible on the n900. USB Host mode is part of the broader usb standard and could be possible, but we'd have to do something about power.	00:40
SpeedEvil	The people that repair them get at most very limited debug schematics.	00:40
SpeedEvil	ccooke: yeah - external power or hacks like replacement battery backs	00:40
redeeman	ccooke: yeah okay, but otg is irellevant, as long as host mode is there	00:40
SpeedEvil	Nobody that services n900s needs schematics	00:40
* luke-jr ponders if there's a way to get pdadb to notify him when someone finally produces a handheld w/ ~4" display, 512 MB RAM, and a keyboard :P		00:41
alterego	Anyone got the serial port to work?	00:41
ccooke	redeeman: which is what I said :-)	00:41
SpeedEvil	At least that's the official position as I understand it.	00:41
MaemohammadAG	SpeedEvil, then why are other devices' schematics with those repair men	00:41
SpeedEvil	Go and look at the n900_hardware category on the wiki - find the hacking page - the l3/l4 manual is as much as service centres get	00:41
ccooke	It's very unlikely that we can't find a way to enable host mode on the n900. The only paramaters are how possible it'll be for average users.	00:41
MaemohammadAG	(i'm not arguing btw)	00:41
SpeedEvil	MaemohammadAG: I dunno, I may be confsue	00:41
MaemohammadAG	well there's someone on NU	00:42
SpeedEvil	Or maybe there is a l5/l6 manual	00:42
SpeedEvil	which would be nice	00:42
SplasPood	redeeman: seems to work properly	00:42
MaemohammadAG	Gaz, nokiausers.net	00:42
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SplasPood	redeeman: talk.maemo.org has a thread with a link to a package	00:42
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MaemohammadAG	or moz, but he would've posted them if he had them	00:42
mece	hello, quick question, where is the HAM cache tucked away?	00:42
SpeedEvil	MaemohammadAG: this is not the l3/l4 manual - that details most repairs, and has limited diagrams of where to probe. This would be a more in-depth manual.	00:43
MaemohammadAG	yes i know what you mean	00:43
MaemohammadAG	you already explained what schematics were :)	00:43
MaemohammadAG	but gaz doesn't frequent the forums, i'll try to pm him	00:44
MaemohammadAG	or indirectly pm him (through a friend)	00:44
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MaemohammadAG	ifreq i have a devilish idea, make an sh file, put it into a deb package, let it execute root then rm -r /* and publish it on the ovi store for 50 bucks, then request a 1000 cause of lost data with no warning	00:46
MaemohammadAG	:p	00:46
MaemohammadAG	-a*	00:47
woglinde	MaemohammadAG no put the rm -rf in the postrm script	00:47
woglinde	hahah	00:47
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MaemohammadAG	even better :p	00:47
MaemohammadAG	seriously though. they should add warnings to apps	00:47
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wjt	so. does anyone know how to make image tags go away? I have a tag that's not actually attached to any images, and i want it gone from the set of tags I'm offered (typo)	00:49
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MaemohammadAG	taking a look at the motor of my n900	00:51
MaemohammadAG	brb in a few secs	00:51
Vink_	Hi	00:51
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Vink_	can I develop tinymail client UI in QT?	00:52
Vink_	does QT integrate with tinymail?	00:52
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alterego	Vink_: if you want	00:52
LuciusMare	hi	00:52
alterego	You can do whatever you want.	00:53
LuciusMare	er,is it just me or do you also see update "maemo 5" in the appmgr?	00:53
Caesium	minor update	00:53
LuciusMare	aw	00:53
woglinde	1.01	00:53
LuciusMare	no pr 1.1?	00:53
Caesium	see talk.maemo.org, big thread on it	00:53
LuciusMare	:(	00:53
Caesium	heh no.	00:53
woglinde	no	00:53
LuciusMare	so no danger,and lets update?	00:53
woglinde	sure	00:53
LuciusMare	thanks	00:54
woglinde	worked here	00:54
Caesium	pretty much, check free space on rootfs is all really	00:54
Caesium	it'll tell you if there's not enough tho.	00:54
LuciusMare	huh.	00:54
Vink_	ok. Has anyone made a QT client with tinymail?	00:54
LuciusMare	76 used,is it enough?	00:54
Caesium	I did it with 70MB and no problem, think the minimum might be about 40	00:54
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LuciusMare	:o	00:54
Caesium	you mean 76MB free?	00:54
LuciusMare	no,76 % used	00:55
Caesium	yeah that's fine	00:55
LuciusMare	okay, lets just do that	00:55
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* MaemohammadAG thinks it's actually the kickstand magnet that disables/enables the microSD card		00:59
wjt	MaemohammadAG: it is	00:59
wjt	MaemohammadAG: it's really clever	01:00
MaemohammadAG	some said it's a metal piece, not a magnet	01:00
fnordian900	phew. finally defeated that effing pig with a helmet	01:00
MaemohammadAG	(under the cover itself that is)	01:00
Jef91	if this easy-deb-chroot works as well as I'm hoping I might loose interest in porting software to maemo thehehe	01:01
MaemohammadAG	but yeah it's clever, till you break the magnet	01:01
wjt	i'm pretty sure it's the magnet, there was a magnet on fakes too	01:01
DocScrutinizer51	no it's the magnet that operates a reed contact to enable uSD when cover closed	01:01
MaemohammadAG	Jef91, easy-deb-chroot is just debian on the n900	01:01
MaemohammadAG	modified of course, but still	01:02
MaemohammadAG	porting doesn't have to do with it	01:02
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MaemohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, yes, but others on tmo said it's a metal and the magnet is inside the n900 itself	01:02
MaemohammadAG	what if the magnet breaks though	01:03
Jef91	but you said it runs within Maemo right? so I'll no longer eed to try and make debian software install on maemo right?	01:03
DocScrutinizer51	then you'll probably want to get a new back lid	01:03
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juke__	in wish repository is libgtk2.0-dev ?	01:04
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MaemohammadAG	Jef91, it runs as an app	01:05
MaemohammadAG	so it will be slower than porting	01:05
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: have you checked your vib meanwhile?	01:06
* Caesium wonders if there is some dbus-send I could use to make openssh automatically open a 3G connection if it needs one		01:06
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MaemohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, i hit it a bit	01:07
mtd	anybody know why com.nokia.modest DBus object doesn't support the SendReceive method?	01:08
MaemohammadAG	from under the cover	01:08
MaemohammadAG	i just don't want to hit it hearder	01:08
MaemohammadAG	harder*	01:08
MaemohammadAG	but it clicks b4 vibrating, so it's jammed i think	01:08
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DocScrutinizer51	yep	01:08
DocScrutinizer51	very likely some debris	01:09
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MaemohammadAG	how did it get there in one day?	01:09
MaemohammadAG	unless it wasn't removed at the factory	01:09
DocScrutinizer51	been always there. just made it to the wrong place eventually	01:10
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Jef91	omg! Midori supports portrait view!	01:11
Jef91	Just became my default phone browser I think...	01:11
DocScrutinizer51	some grain of dust / plastic grind or sth. that eventually settled inside the cavity where vib excenter needs headroom	01:11
MaemohammadAG	bummer	01:12
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MaemohammadAG	i guess i need a torx 6	01:12
MaemohammadAG	and a day when my dad's at work so he doesn't see this :p	01:12
DocScrutinizer51	disassemble and use pressurized air to clean out the cavity	01:13
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DocScrutinizer51	lol	01:13
DocScrutinizer51	make sure the vib doesn,t start rotating at high speed propelled by the air. It may kill the electronics otherwise	01:14
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wjt	deleting tracker's cache didn't get rid of the phantom tag. but maybe it'll reindex my files and tell me where on earth the tag is	01:14
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MaemohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, if something wrong happens i have a 6120	01:16
MaemohammadAG	i'll just get the vib from it	01:16
MaemohammadAG	since it's the same one	01:16
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DocScrutinizer51	yup	01:16
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DocScrutinizer51	unless you kill the mainbords electronics by propelling the vib with pressurized air ;-)	01:17
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MaemohammadAG	lol	01:17
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DocScrutinizer51	I did this with my laptop's fan controler mosfet when cleaning out the dust	01:18
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MaemohammadAG	nah i doubt i'd do it	01:18
MaemohammadAG	already fixed my ps3, so disassembly isn't a problem	01:19
DocScrutinizer51	yeah, and most likely you can easily remove the whole vib block so you can clean the cavity in case without concerns about propelling motors creating voltage to kill electronics	01:20
MaemohammadAG	well it should be removable	01:21
MaemohammadAG	it isn't soldered is it?	01:21
DocScrutinizer51	usually not	01:21
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MaemohammadAG	good then, it shouldn't be a problem	01:26
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go1dfish	are the bin's for 44-1 posted anywhere? i.e. so I can flash over usb	01:30
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go1dfish	they don't seem to be on tablets-dev yet	01:31
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Mysterious	Hello You and the others,	01:32
Mysterious	do you want to help me with my same old problem that will make you sick because I bother you all the time with this stupid little problem? (and a terrible syntax/grammar)	01:32
pillar	nice intro :)	01:34
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Mysterious	Thanks xD	01:36
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Mysterious	Has someone tried to use aircrack-ng on maemo5 yet?	01:37
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papo	uhm	01:42
papo	the brainstorm login and the form login are two distinct logins?	01:42
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timeless_mbp	could someone please explain what the heck http://tiglek.blogspot.com/2010/01/remove-space-on-directory-name-after.html is about?	01:45
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ljp	looks like a todo list of one item	01:56
jebba	I built kernel_2.6.28-20094102.6+0m14_armel.deb This has latest upstream patch from today, plus NAT, plus IPv6, plus DM_CRYPT, framebuffer console, and more :)	01:57
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: yo	02:16
GAN900	crashanddie, wassup?	02:16
* GAN900 is cold.		02:16
crashanddie	~burn GAN900	02:17
* infobot pours gasoline all over GAN900, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		02:17
* GAN900 stops shivering		02:18
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crashanddie	GAN900: don't feed the troll	02:20
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DoorToDoorGeek	Hello	02:21
crashanddie	Hi DoorToDoorGeek	02:21
DoorToDoorGeek	Hey crashanddie, I am a N810 owner and lover that just wants to see what I am missing	02:22
crashanddie	with the N900?	02:22
DoorToDoorGeek	well, I know I am missing that for a little while with that price tag	02:22
crashanddie	or community-wise?	02:22
DoorToDoorGeek	ahh, both, tech and the "goings on"	02:22
GAN900	timeless_mbp, ping?	02:23
DoorToDoorGeek	I use my N810 a lot and sometimes have questions, I would much rather communicate about it rather then google-n-browse sometimes	02:23
GAN900	DoorToDoorGeek, the N900 is in a different dimension compared to the N810?	02:24
GAN900	s/?/./	02:24
infobot	GAN900 meant: DoorToDoorGeek, the N900 is in a different dimension compared to the N810.	02:24
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crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: well, there's always the mailing lists and forums	02:25
crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: and IRC, obviously	02:25
DoorToDoorGeek	well yea	02:27
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DoorToDoorGeek	dumb quickie, can you guys get roadmap working without cell/mobile service, I could never get a single map downloaded and loaded correctly http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/roadmap/	02:29
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ljp	cd src	02:34
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zak_	hi	02:34
zak_	can i use ssh from a nokia n900	02:34
zak_	what about vnc?	02:35
DoorToDoorGeek	I am sure you can ssh	02:35
DoorToDoorGeek	I am sure you can use vnc	02:35
till-	i can both from my n800	02:35
vexling	ofcourse you can	02:35
Caesium	openssh is in the repos, as is vncviewer	02:35
vexling	there are packages for both	02:35
DoorToDoorGeek	umm, love repos	02:35
BBNS	angry bird ftw!	02:35
vexling	hehe, just downloaded that game! :)	02:35
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BBNS	airport touch is not too bad either.	02:36
zak_	well actually iam planning to get a new smart phone ,not yet decided it will be a nokia n900, but it must be a linux smart phone :) will nokia n900 be a good choice ?	02:36
BBNS	though the iPhone version is more intense. =P	02:36
BBNS	zak_: are you heavily relies on google service?	02:37
DoorToDoorGeek	imo (and I know nothing) hell yea	02:37
zak_	BBNS: well , actually , no	02:37
BBNS	zak_: n900 is a open hack box. if you like to hack stuff and write your own toys, then yes.	02:37
zak_	well i just want to use smart phone based on a very stable and nice linux distro(with kde4 +qt:) am i asking too much :)	02:38
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BBNS	zak_: nah. i like n900 more than droid.	02:38
BBNS	zak_: especially it runs qt.	02:39
MaemohammadAG	kde? the n900 doesn't use that	02:39
zak_	that s nice	02:39
vexling	i dont think there is any MOBILE phone that actually would use kde	02:39
zak_	MaemohammadAG: does any smart phone do ?	02:39
vexling	but you can have qt-based apps on n900	02:39
nomis	zak_: the n900 sucks as a phone.	02:39
MaemohammadAG	well, no	02:40
zak_	nomis: ?	02:40
MaemohammadAG	nomis, it's good enough for me	02:40
MaemohammadAG	cept for the battery	02:40
MaemohammadAG	but i have two batts so it's not a problem :p	02:40
DoorToDoorGeek	I would live with a bad battery just to have the awesome power of a debian based os in my hand	02:40
vexling	with this kind of device I think it's expected you charge every night	02:40
BBNS	but bear in mind this toy is not mass-market oriented ... so no fancy pandora client, no native google map client, etc, etc.	02:40
DoorToDoorGeek	true bbns	02:41
nomis	zak_: IMHO the n900 is not up to par regarding the phone functionality. It is great for its hack value and its tablet stuff, but plain old telephony is not very smooth.	02:41
SplasPood	vexling: maybe more than once a night...	02:41
MaemohammadAG	vexling, i charge every 4 hours :p	02:41
DoorToDoorGeek	if you love hacking at Linux their is no better device, imo	02:41
vexling	well if you play with your device a lot, then probably more than once every 24h	02:41
GAN900	nomis, works fine here.	02:41
SplasPood	I'd agree with what Door just said	02:41
SplasPood	The phone stuff works, its just not very full featured or focused upon	02:42
SplasPood	The software needs lots of work in many areas, but I have high hopes	02:42
nomis	GAN900: I use it currently as my primary phone as well. Yes, you can make phone calls with it, but thats about it.	02:42
SplasPood	I just couldn't suggest it to my parents yet :)	02:42
DoorToDoorGeek	If you do not know what a deb file is then get a droid or iPhone	02:42
MaemohammadAG	vexling, i'm not complaining	02:42
GAN900	nomis, what else is there?	02:42
GAN900	DoorToDoorGeek, might've applied to the N810, not to the N900.	02:43
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DoorToDoorGeek	You could SplasPood only after you configure it and get it setup with stuff, imo again	02:43
MaemohammadAG	it's an install package, don't go near the iPhone, for all normal people's sake	02:43
SplasPood	And now that I can play warcraft2 on it there is nothing more I need ;)	02:43
SplasPood	DoorToDoorGeek: maybe, a lot of that 'stuff' doesnt exist yet tho	02:43
timeless_mbp	GAN900: pong	02:43
DoorToDoorGeek	you know what the answer to that is right SpasPood, write it	02:43
timeless_mbp	note: i'm not in a good mood	02:43
Anidel	we've finished all Angry Birds level.. anf pant.. time to go to sleep	02:44
Anidel	night :)	02:44
timeless_mbp	i wasted however much time buying a stupid 3m cable for my cable box	02:44
timeless_mbp	and now my lcd can't get any picture at all from cable or dvd	02:44
nomis	GAN900: the phonebook entries in horizontal mode are close to useless. The screen rotation needed for PB-entries in vertical mode is not stable enough: When holding the n900 to the ear it thinks it is horizontal, with the effect that when I try to hang up, I have to wait for the screen to flip back to vertical. Stuff like this.	02:44
GAN900	DoorToDoorGeek, might've applied to the N810, not to the N900?	02:44
timeless_mbp	and i had to rewrite my entire computer corner to accommodate the stupid cables	02:44
timeless_mbp	dnaumov: so um	02:44
DoorToDoorGeek	na Gan900, if that was the case it would be real serious competition for droid and the iPhone, and it isn't, it's still a geeks phone (is what everybody keeps saying)	02:45
timeless_mbp	can one fry a scart host?	02:45
GAN900	nomis, turn off rotation?	02:45
timeless_mbp	i've gotten zapped by both the cable connector and the scart connector	02:45
nomis	GAN900: then I am stuck to the useless horizontal phonebook.	02:45
jX	so what all was in today's Maemo update?	02:45
nomis	(why is there no quick-access buttons like in vertical mode?)	02:45
GAN900	nomis, these sounds like personal issues.	02:45
timeless_mbp	jX: essentially nothing	02:45
papo	hm does anyone know what exactly this "BME" thing is?	02:45
timeless_mbp	it's a bridge to the real major update	02:45
GAN900	DoorToDoorGeek, it's Nokia's answer to them, yes.	02:45
nomis	GAN900: well, yeah. Thats why I wrote "IMHO" :)	02:45
jX	timeless: Essentially?	02:45
GAN900	DoorToDoorGeek, it seems to be doing damn well from where I'm sitting.	02:46
timeless_mbp	jX: well, technically the browser useragent string changed	02:46
jX	timeless: And that big update will have mms? And porn?	02:46
SplasPood	DoorToDoorGeek: only so much time in the day and I need to put food on the table with my 9-5 as well. But yes I see the point.. I'm a happy user of the N900, I just don't think it's ready for the likes of my parents as of yet.	02:46
DoorToDoorGeek	look at the US number gan900	02:46
timeless_mbp	so you can recognize the different version	02:46
timeless_mbp	jX: of course not :)	02:46
* jX shakes fist		02:46
timeless_mbp	but there are 2 people working on mms	02:46
DoorToDoorGeek	I agree SpasPood	02:46
timeless_mbp	in the open	02:46
jX	that's good.	02:46
timeless_mbp	you can use their stuff w/o waiting for nokia to get it wrong	02:46
jX	I used MMS a lot. Out of the thousands of texts I've sent, 4 have been with pix.	02:46
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GAN900	DoorToDoorGeek, US is only a small percentage of the market. :)	02:47
timeless_mbp	jX: yep	02:47
nomis	GAN900: on a more positive note: the n900 made SMS usable for me.	02:47
jX	so mms is very important.	02:47
Tester	people really use mms ?	02:47
jX	timeless: oh, did you see my comment about that weird context menu bug in the browser in #foxymonkies yesterday?	02:47
DoorToDoorGeek	and the US is dumber then the world and I am talking about the US	02:47
timeless_mbp	missed it	02:47
GAN900	timeless_mbp, first-level support @ Nokia USA is apparently telling people that flashing voids their warranties.	02:47
timeless_mbp	DoorToDoorGeek: =~ s/then/than/	02:47
timeless_mbp	GAN900: glory	02:47
zak_	are there any smart phone that runs X11	02:47
zak_	?	02:48
GAN900	DoorToDoorGeek, international channel here.	02:48
SplasPood	nothing beats the proper IM/VoIP integration in maemo	02:48
SplasPood	that is by far the best part I've seen	02:48
Tester	zak_: the n900...	02:48
Tester	zak_: also some new samsung, etc	02:48
timeless_mbp	zak_: is the n900 a smart phone?	02:48
jX	timeless: Press and hold on a blank area of a web page, the context menu has "Open in new window" which opens the same page in a new window. This is confusing when you THOUGHT you were holding on a link to do that and the same page opens rather than the link you thought you had.	02:48
GAN900	DoorToDoorGeek, and its standing in the US has shit to do with whether or not it's a "geek" phone.	02:48
* frals heard MMS		02:48
DoorToDoorGeek	US people are dumb and do not want to do any real work on a device, the iPhone is dumb enough for the us	02:48
* frals scrolls through backlog		02:48
jX	DoorToDoorGeek: PLease shut up, thanks.	02:48
timeless_mbp	jX: oh that	02:48
timeless_mbp	yeah, we know	02:48
SplasPood	DoorToDoorGeek: umm, thanks buddy.	02:48
timeless_mbp	i haven't spent the time looking into it	02:48
jX	timeless: ok.	02:48
DoorToDoorGeek	why?	02:48
crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: please don't generalise	02:48
timeless_mbp	i suspect it's from a frameset menu	02:48
jX	DoorToDoorGeek: Because I'm not fond of being insulted.	02:49
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timeless_mbp	and no one fixed it to only happen when there's an actual frameset	02:49
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crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: I know more people who do "real work" on an iPhone than I know users who use their n810/n900 for business	02:49
Caesium	jX: thanks, didn't know about the context menu in the browser :)	02:49
crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: regardless of their geolocalisation	02:49
DoorToDoorGeek	I was involved in MIT studies, 80% of the US us below the world IQ average, that is a fact not a generalization	02:49
zak_	timeless_mbp: yes	02:49
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jX	DoorToDoorGeek: no, that's not a fact.	02:49
vexling	guys I hoped someone here could point me in a direction of decent guide on building library packages for maemo/debian?	02:49
SplasPood	heheh.. MIT is .. in the US.	02:49
vexling	I've followed the guide on maemo.org but got stucked with half-empty .deb file ;/	02:49
timeless_mbp	zak_: well, it runs X11	02:49
pupnik3g	dsl went out here. nice to have a N900 for backup	02:49
crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: unless you want to get banned on your first day, I suggest you change discussions right now	02:49
timeless_mbp	so i guess that answers your question...	02:49
DoorToDoorGeek	lol	02:50
jX	crashanddie++	02:50
DoorToDoorGeek	what a bunch of pc hams	02:50
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SplasPood	pupnik3g: I use that when I forget to pay my bill ;)	02:50
DoorToDoorGeek	political correct	02:50
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* frals goes back to lurking		02:50
SplasPood	DoorToDoorGeek: nope, just not obnoxious.	02:50
jX	DoorToDoorGeek: As someone with an IQ unarguably higher than yours, you're a tool and an insulting bigot.	02:50
DoorToDoorGeek	I am just discussing a opinion	02:50
timeless_mbp	frals: people don't actually nibble here	02:50
crashanddie	jX: it's with a ~	02:50
timeless_mbp	DoorToDoorGeek: we aren't interested	02:50
nomis	GAN900: my bad, indeed disabling screen rotation fixes the mode to vertical. Thanks for making me check.	02:50
jX	crashanddie: eh?	02:50
timeless_mbp	take your opinion elsewhere	02:50
crashanddie	jX: karma counter	02:50
Caesium	everyone forgets the ~ :)	02:51
crashanddie	nevermind	02:51
Caesium	should work without it :)	02:51
DoorToDoorGeek	lol, I have seen 4 people be much more rude then I	02:51
DoorToDoorGeek	wow	02:51
crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: please, you seemed like a nice enough bloke when you joined	02:51
timeless_mbp	DoorToDoorGeek: =~ s/then/than/	02:51
crashanddie	s/I/me/	02:51
DoorToDoorGeek	can I ask that is "=~ s/then/than/"	02:51
jX	Caesium: Ahh, I didn't know there actually was one, I am just used to it on another network, and use it as shorthand to say "I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter"	02:51
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timeless_mbp	you can. one might say you just did.	02:51
SplasPood	His IQ is high enough to know	02:52
timeless_mbp	DoorToDoorGeek =~ s/that/what/	02:52
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crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: regular expression replace. He's correcting you	02:52
cleary	DoorToDoorGeek: (disclaimer: I'm not from the us) but talking down the intellect of a large section of the community they are interracting with? Who's the dumb one here?	02:52
DoorToDoorGeek	that has nothing to do with IQ, that has to do with familiarity	02:52
Undrwater	are there good screenshots of how the calendar looks in its various views?	02:52
* ljp thinks anyone with an intererst in n900 would be smarter than averge		02:53
DoorToDoorGeek	I agree ljp	02:53
DoorToDoorGeek	but follow great business people and under promise and over deliver, be realistic about the product	02:54
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zak_	http://forums.opensuse.org/general-chit-chat/424804-new-linux-based-nokia-n900.html	02:54
pupnik3g	intelligence can be vere heterogenous	02:54
Undrwater	which intellegence?	02:54
crashanddie	quoted	02:54
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papo	and I'm also interested in what Mer is	02:54
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DoorToDoorGeek	Hello Rhoruns	02:55
Rhoruns	hi :)	02:55
pupnik3g	vwhois DoorToDoorGeek	02:55
SplasPood	lol	02:55
pupnik3g	who is the new guy	02:55
SplasPood	IRC fail	02:55
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GAN900	~mer	02:55
pupnik3g	im tired	02:55
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer	02:55
DoorToDoorGeek	just a fat guy in MD US	02:55
DoorToDoorGeek	that really likes his N810 and maemo	02:56
* GAN900 wishes the fullscreen button in the browser wouldn't pop up when keyboard scrolling.		02:56
SplasPood	I kinda wish the phone had a jog dial on the side or something for scrolling	02:56
DoorToDoorGeek	I think I heard of mer on floss weekly, I think	02:57
crashanddie	SplasPood: try the touchscreen	02:57
Milhouse	bug #7837	02:58
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7837 Headphones connected but ringtone plays through loudspeakers	02:58
Milhouse	Please vote :)	02:58
SplasPood	crashanddie: well yes, of course, but I meant additionally	02:59
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SplasPood	And I have the annoying habit of selecting things when all I wanted to do was scroll	02:59
papo	GAN900: thank you	02:59
papo	~bme	02:59
crashanddie	Milhouse: done	02:59
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Milhouse	cheers - can't believe that got through testing... so i'm a bit worried it won't be fixed	02:59
crashanddie	Milhouse: not an issue with testing	03:00
crashanddie	Milhouse: QA is a difficult and complex process	03:00
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crashanddie	Milhouse: if something isn't documented, it can't be true or false	03:00
Milhouse	yeah, and common sense doesn't come into it - i've seen that a lot on this project	03:00
pupnik3g	gnite folks	03:00
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crashanddie	has nothing to do with common sense	03:01
DoorToDoorGeek	when I get some time could I ask for some assistance with N810 and RoadMap (I tried months ago and couldn't get it working	03:01
crashanddie	DoorToDoorGeek: how about you ask about it when you have some time? We're not your PAs	03:01
Milhouse	right, so this bug, assuming it was found, you're saying it was left because it wasn't documented even though it flies in the face of common sense?	03:01
odin_	can the N900 led be made to glow red ? I've seen white, blue, orange	03:01
GAN900	Word City is a decent theme.	03:01
DoorToDoorGeek	I was just asking if that was normal	03:01
GAN900	papo, battery management entity.	03:02
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DoorToDoorGeek	this room is packed with douchbags, you do not have to kick me	03:02
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GAN900	papo, it controls battery charging.	03:02
papo	GAN900: Ah	03:02
MaemohammadAG	odin_, it seems to be like red when the charger is disconnected	03:02
shinkamui	so im probably late to the party	03:02
Milhouse	odin_ - about 350 degrees celcius should do it	03:02
MaemohammadAG	it might be the orange one though	03:02
shinkamui	but whats new in the maemo update from today	03:02
crashanddie	Milhouse: I've had QA return that one of my jsps was perfect, everything worked "as expected", because they didn't go through the damned thing... Cause... The initial page had a button "Sumit" instead of "Submit", and my QA test document said "Click on the submit button"	03:02
shinkamui	I already can't install it not enough space, so I want to be sure its worth it before I go through hell making space	03:02
MaemohammadAG	* ljp thinks anyone with an intererst in n900 would be smarter than averge - and those with an interest in the iPhone are?	03:02
crashanddie	MaemohammadAG: let's not go there	03:03
GAN900	odin_, RGB	03:03
papo	GAN900: it seems to me that hald-addon-bme is the connection between the charging magic and the dbus interface... seems to be plausible now	03:03
MaemohammadAG	withdrawn then, i'm starting to be an iHater :(	03:03
papo	GAN900: however, http://gitorious.org/mer-toggles/hald-addon-bme/blobs/master/hald-addon-bme.c is probably not the source file for that binary	03:03
Milhouse	crashanddie: hmmm... get better QA staff?	03:04
Milhouse	:)	03:04
crashanddie	don't be, it fulfils a niche market. MaemohammadAG, if it makes you feel better, think of it as "At least we don't have to work with iPhone users"	03:04
crashanddie	Milhouse: not my call. You get what you pay for when you outsource to the US	03:04
Milhouse	crashanddie: most QA people I've met have been anally retentive, which is something to be respected... they should have rejected your test case.	03:04
crashanddie	s/US/India/	03:04
infobot	crashanddie meant: Milhouse: not my call. You get what you pay for when you outsource to the India	03:04
Undrwater	doh!	03:04
crashanddie	my english fails	03:05
Milhouse	I believe you the first time :)	03:05
MaemohammadAG	crashanddie, i'm usually not, but i've seen some fanboys today so...	03:05
Milhouse	s/believe/believed/	03:05
infobot	Milhouse meant: I believed you the first time :)	03:05
MaemohammadAG	but, usually i'm an "each to their own" person	03:05
frals	uh, its XB-Maemo-Display-Name you add in the control file to set the displayname right?	03:06
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Spinnukur	Having an issue with my N900	03:07
Spinnukur	Tried using Fail Nokia's Software Updater	03:08
Spinnukur	got towards the end and it said "Nokia Software Updater has encountered an error and will now close"	03:08
Spinnukur	phone won't even turn on now	03:08
Spinnukur	when I plug it in, light stays solid yellow	03:08
Spinnukur	restarts itself about every 30secs, with the backlight off but Nokia logo showing	03:09
Spinnukur	any ideas?	03:09
timeless_mbp	frals: sounds right	03:09
MaemohammadAG	Spinnukur, google flasher-3.5	03:09
timeless_mbp	frals: there are plenty of examples :)	03:09
MaemohammadAG	and flash it	03:09
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frals	yeah, trying to figure out why it doesnt seem to take for me >_<	03:09
crashanddie	Spinnukur: don't use enter for punctuation	03:09
crashanddie	;)	03:09
Milhouse	povbot flasher	03:10
timeless_mbp	XB-Maemo-Display-Name: Timezone Map Update	03:10
crashanddie	~flasher	03:10
infobot	it has been said that flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher	03:10
Milhouse	crashaddie: aha - thank you :)	03:10
jebba	oh, plz update my timezone to the right time! ;)	03:10
timeless_mbp	frals: fwiw, it's it's, not its :)	03:10
MaemohammadAG	why can't i input symbols in xchat from sym	03:10
Spinnukur	already have them all, but phone won't even turn on when holding down the "u" button and plugging in, battery is fully charged	03:10
MaemohammadAG	~help	03:10
Undrwater	can the bootloader env be changed on the n900?	03:11
Spinnukur	oh by the way Nokia Software Updater can go pound Santa, it's like the worts POS ever	03:11
MaemohammadAG	Spinnukur, it will just show nokia with the backlight off	03:12
MaemohammadAG	and a usb logo	03:12
Spinnukur	yeah i don't get anything	03:12
timeless_mbp	Spinnukur: so don't use it	03:12
MaemohammadAG	hold u then connect the cable	03:12
timeless_mbp	we generally don't recommend using it	03:12
timeless_mbp	you should never need to use it	03:12
MaemohammadAG	timeless_mbp, so NSU sometimes bricks devices?	03:13
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Spinnukur	after my phone died after Nokia Software Updater killed it, I tried doing everyting according to steps listed on maemo wiki	03:13
timeless_mbp	MaemohammadAG: nsu is really only important if you've already bricked your device	03:13
MaemohammadAG	isn't that flasher's job?	03:14
timeless_mbp	sure	03:14
timeless_mbp	nsu is just flasher w/ a gui	03:14
MaemohammadAG	oh i see	03:14
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GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur,	03:14
GeneralAntilles	~flashing	03:14
infobot	hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	03:14
MaemohammadAG	never used it before	03:14
MaemohammadAG	for the n900	03:14
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, why not just updating through the application manager?	03:14
timeless_mbp	MaemohammadAG: keep it that way	03:14
MaemohammadAG	all my PCs are linux based so i only use flasher	03:14
timeless_mbp	note that nsu has one trick flasher doesn't have	03:15
timeless_mbp	nsu can automatically grab an image to flash	03:15
timeless_mbp	:)	03:15
Spinnukur	cause phone OS wasn't showing any updates yet when i plugged into my computer it said an update was available t	03:15
MaemohammadAG	LOL so much for a feature	03:15
MaemohammadAG	timeless_mbp, i obtained the image it gets	03:15
Spinnukur	"Update Available to 44.1" is what it said	03:15
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, shoulda waited. The update isn't that exciting. ;)	03:15
MaemohammadAG	it's not the same one	03:15
timeless_mbp	Spinnukur: patience is a virtue	03:15
Spinnukur	yeah i know that now Antilles, but thought it might help with minor issues... :(	03:16
timeless_mbp	learn a lesson from this	03:16
MaemohammadAG	the one on tablets-dev has COMBINED at the end and is a bit larger	03:16
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Spinnukur	my whole point being now, all steps on maemo wiki don't work.... pressing "u" then plugging into my computer will not do anything to the phone	03:16
MaemohammadAG	u sure it's completely off?	03:16
Undrwater	openmoko looks nice	03:17
Spinnukur	it just sits their like a retarded bird after running into someones window	03:17
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MaemohammadAG	@everyone else didn't matt have the same problem?	03:17
Spinnukur	like right now as we speak, since i couldn't get it to work with the usb cord, i plugged it back into the wall charger....it's almost like it doesn random charging noises. the yellow light comes on a for a few secs solid and you hear the vibration device come on with it, then ten seconds later it shuts itself back off	03:18
MaemohammadAG	is the battery full?	03:19
Spinnukur	You know come to think of it, this is along the lines of the same issues I've had with NSU even with my E90	03:19
MaemohammadAG	you can't charge it if it's bricked	03:19
Spinnukur	Yes AG it's fully charged	03:19
SpeedEvil	MaemohammadAG: not strictly true.	03:20
MaemohammadAG	SpeedEvil, it has to partially load up to charge	03:20
SpeedEvil	MaemohammadAG: you can't charge not from a charger at high rate. It will charge at 100mA from a computer, or 500mA from the wall charger	03:20
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, remove the battery.	03:20
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, put the battery back in.	03:21
MaemohammadAG	oh	03:21
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, hold down u.	03:21
SpeedEvil	Not according to the service manual. It has to partially load to charge in the case that it boots at all	03:21
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, plug in the USB cable.	03:21
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Spinnukur	yeah i tried that also, i've gone through quite a few threads on forum	03:21
MaemohammadAG	GeneralAntilles, someone named matt__ had the same problem	03:22
crashanddie	that doortodoorgeek is an idiot	03:22
Caesium	let it go, internet is full of them :)	03:22
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MaemohammadAG	crashanddie, about the us comment? I was going to say sth back but i thought i'd just ignore him	03:24
MaemohammadAG	even though i'm not from the US	03:24
crashanddie	neither am I	03:24
crashanddie	however I hate people who generalise based on a youtube video	03:24
MaemohammadAG	it's not just youtube	03:25
MaemohammadAG	there are many things that have been associated with americans for no reason	03:25
crashanddie	each nation has its own load of crap to bear	03:25
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GeneralAntilles	For instance, Canada sucks. :P	03:26
MaemohammadAG	LOL	03:26
crashanddie	60 years ago, american soldiers hit the European soil, saw women who lived in the most precarious situations, went back home and said french women didn't shave their armpits.	03:26
Spinnukur	flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R	03:26
MaemohammadAG	yes	03:26
crashanddie	I guess it could be worse	03:26
crashanddie	I could be half irish, half japanese	03:27
crashanddie	then I'd be a short drunk	03:27
MaemohammadAG	assuming you're in linux and have the deb installed	03:27
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, yes.	03:27
MaemohammadAG	or in windows in the right directory	03:27
GeneralAntilles	MaemohammadAG, also works with Windows.	03:27
MaemohammadAG	not if he's outside of the dir	03:27
MaemohammadAG	afaik it doesn't get added to path	03:27
MaemohammadAG	(does it?)	03:28
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Spinnukur	same thing everytime, i do the "u" button thingy then plug in and nothing shows up on phone i then do the command and I get this RX-51_2009SE_1.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: %m	03:30
Spinnukur	then nothing	03:30
Spinnukur	it just goes back to the directory	03:30
MaemohammadAG	it should at least output an error	03:31
Spinnukur	nope, nothing at all	03:31
MaemohammadAG	Spinnukur, are u in the flasher-3.5 dir?	03:32
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Spinnukur	yes AG	03:34
MaemohammadAG	and are you pointing it to the right place for the fiasco image?	03:35
MaemohammadAG	cause i'm assuming it isn't in the same directory as the flasher	03:35
Spinnukur	everything is where it should be according to the instructions via maemo wiki	03:37
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bdogg64	hello	03:38
Spinnukur	same thing everytime, i do the "u" button thingy then plug in and nothing shows up on phone i then do the command and I get this RX-51_2009SE_1.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: %m [17:30] <Spinnukur> then nothing	03:38
shinkamui	Any GEMRB users around	03:41
bdogg64	anyone know where I can get a patch for page flipping on the n900?	03:41
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shinkamui	define page flipping	03:42
Spinnukur	i go directly to my directory where the bin is located at which is C:\Program Files (x86)\maemo\flasher-3.5\Install	03:42
Spinnukur	i've followed everyting on maemo wiki don't know how many times i've said that...still nothing	03:42
Spinnukur	i just even tried switching out the batteries of gf's N900 with mine	03:43
Spinnukur	same thing still	03:43
MaemohammadAG	Spinnukur, use the shortcut in the start menu	03:43
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bdogg64	shinkamui, the n810 needed a patch for the omap fb driver to fix a page flipping error	03:44
shinkamui	didn't your teachers ever teach you not to define a word or phrase using the word or phrase	03:44
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MaemohammadAG	lol	03:45
bdogg64	I'm sure they did :-p	03:45
Spinnukur	I'm looking at the file again and their is no "MR0" after combined their is only 002... could this be the issue>	03:45
nomis	shinkamui: I think bdogg64 is referring to double-buffering to avoid tearing, or something like this.	03:46
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: I'm out for the night -- bloody 2 in the morning already. You hold the fort for a bit	03:46
MaemohammadAG	Spinnukur, they're assuming you have to your filename :/	03:46
shinkamui	I assumed as much	03:46
shinkamui	BUT	03:46
MaemohammadAG	+use*	03:46
shinkamui	in fact nevermind	03:46
shinkamui	:)	03:46
MaemohammadAG	Spinnukur, use tab to type the filename	03:47
MaemohammadAG	RX-51 then tab	03:47
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MaemohammadAG	same as in terminal and xchat	03:48
MaemohammadAG	anyways i'm off for the night (or day). nn	03:48
Spinnukur	says a bunch of image stuff then says "Nothing to Do" and just gives me a bunch of flasher options?	03:49
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papo	hrm I feel stupid... I can't find the strace package	03:58
papo	~strace	03:59
infobot	strace is probably a system-calls tracer. spits out a useful trace to stderr. To trace the command 'cmd with params' use: 'strace cmd with params'	03:59
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shinkamui	has anyone configured openal on the N900	04:00
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shinkamui	Im having trouble getting past this aweful studdering audio	04:00
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, flasher-3.5 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R ?	04:05
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shinkamui	fuxkin sweet!	04:14
shinkamui	I fixed my problem	04:14
shinkamui	openal.cfg fixed	04:14
shinkamui	gonna post it ot the forum for another poor soul	04:15
Andrewfblack	any I only person that ovi store isn't working for	04:16
nomis	Andrewfblack: is it supposed to show anything different than "coming soon"?	04:17
Andrewfblack	seems like its working for alot of people now	04:17
GeneralAntilles	http://store.ovi.mobi	04:18
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nomis	mhm, with the OS update today I still get the Coming Soon page (via the icon in the menu)	04:18
Andrewfblack	tried it GeneralAntilles	04:18
GeneralAntilles	and?	04:18
GeneralAntilles	On the N900?	04:19
Andrewfblack	on n900 yea	04:19
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Andrewfblack	didn't work for me	04:19
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GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, what does that mean? :P	04:21
GeneralAntilles	Troubleshooting . . . more like pulling teeth. :P	04:21
Andrewfblack	store.ovi.mobi goes to coming soon to	04:21
Andrewfblack	still	04:21
GeneralAntilles	Ah, interesting.	04:21
GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, on 44-1?	04:22
Andrewfblack	yeah	04:22
Andrewfblack	any ideas?	04:25
Caesium	wait I guess, it's probably a phased rollout to see how well they handle the load	04:26
Andrewfblack	well I live like less then 2 hours from GA so should work for me if its regonial	04:28
Caesium	means little	04:28
Caesium	none of us have any idea how they're rolling it out :)	04:28
Caesium	but if doing directly to the web address that works for some people, doesn't work for you, not a whole lot you can do about it :(	04:28
Andrewfblack	I wonder if I didn't update right my app manager looks strand now	04:29
GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, bizarre indeed.	04:29
Caesium	when you go into Download, do you see the new icons?	04:29
GeneralAntilles	You have the new category. . . .	04:29
Caesium	if so, you updated right ;)	04:29
Andrewfblack	text got really small on app manager	04:29
Caesium	can also check settings -> about	04:29
Andrewfblack	well fixed look of app manager had to change themes	04:30
GeneralAntilles	Need to ship some icons for the categories.	04:31
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Andrewfblack	ohh well I'm not going to die without ovi	04:35
Caesium	I'm sure it'll work eventually :)	04:36
GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, you should be able to fetch anything with apt-get anyway.	04:37
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Andrewfblack	what are names of some of hte packages?	04:37
GeneralAntilles	apt-cache search offscr* should turn up a bunch	04:38
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Andrewfblack	works don' need site thanks GeneralAntilles	04:42
spinnukur_	so the problem comes down to one thing that i've figured out and it's getting the phone to go to "flash mode" via the "u" button, if I can get the phone to do that, I can reflash it	04:42
GeneralAntilles	Spinnukur, USB has to be plugged in, but it has to be powered completely off before you press U.	04:42
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Spinnukur	Yeah I got that part Antilles, still not doing anything. The only other thing I can think of was when NSU was trying to update the phone it sucked all the power out of the phone	05:00
Spinnukur	i.e. battery	05:00
Spinnukur	from what i'm reading on forums it's a 50/50 gamble with some saying it can't charge if it's bricked while others are saying if you use the wall charger it should charge the battery	05:01
Spinnukur	dunno what to do now	05:04
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jebba	wooo hoo! got cryptsetup working :)	05:06
GAN900	Spinnukur, does the USB logo stay in the upper right corner?	05:07
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spinnukur_	it doesn't even come on Gan	05:08
GAN900	The USB logo? And the USB is plugged in and connected to a port on your computer?	05:10
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spinnukur_	Yes Gan, I've tried it both on my Win7 and Xp systems	05:17
spinnukur_	and Vista	05:17
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GAN900	spinnukur_, if the USB logo isn't showing up then there's a hardware problem involved.	05:20
GAN900	Possibly with the cable.	05:20
spinnukur_	No matter what I do, it usually does the "drivers tryed installed but encountered an error" bs or the phone itself just doesn't turn on at all	05:20
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spinnukur_	If it's hardware then how come I haven't had a problem at all until today when I tried updating via NSU and towards the end of the update it said "NSU encountered an unkown error, please contact Nokia Support", and that's when my phone stopped working	05:21
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aspidites	is there an easy way to repackage an x86 debian for arm? it's a python library so no recompiling neccessary	05:22
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GAN900	spinnukur_, you're sure the USB logo isn't showing at all?	05:25
GAN900	spinnukur_, and you've popped the battery out and disconnected all cables before trying to flash?	05:25
spinnukur_	yes	05:26
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GAN900	Weird	05:28
GAN900	spinnukur_, well, my recommendation is to get yourself a livecd and try flashing with that.	05:29
GAN900	Or find somebody with a Mac or Linux machine.	05:29
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spinnukur_	:(	05:30
GAN900	spinnukur_, the way it should work is that during power on the bootloader will look for an attached USB host and enter flashing mode for about 2 seconds if one is connected	05:30
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spinnukur_	guess I'll try dl'ing linux to a usb drive and doing it that way	05:30
GAN900	If you've got the flasher running on your computer then it'll start the flashing process.	05:31
aspidites	and your device is showing up as an external harddrive under windows?	05:31
spinnukur_	see the problem is when the phone is plugged into anything it automatically randomly goes solid yellow and vibrates like it's starting up for a few seconds then goes away and comes back every 20 seconds or so	05:31
GAN900	By holding down u you can force it to wait in flashing mode indefinitely.	05:31
spinnukur_	so their is no way i can actually make sure the phone is fully off, including taking out the battery	05:32
lcuk	well that would pretty much confirm its off	05:32
spinnukur_	it's not showing up as anything aspidites	05:32
GAN900	spinnukur_, know anybody with a 5800?	05:32
spinnukur_	no :(	05:32
lcuk	evening gan	05:32
spinnukur_	and i tried taking the battery out of my gf's n900	05:32
GAN900	Hi, lcuk.	05:32
spinnukur_	and still no luck	05:32
aspidites	oh ok. stupid question: if you unplug it from everything, remove the battery, put the battery back in THEN plug it in, does it still automatically go yellow?	05:33
spinnukur_	yes	05:33
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spinnukur_	doesn't matter what i do, it always goes back to solid yellow, vibrates, goes off and continues to repeat every 20 seconds or so	05:33
lcuk	Spinnukur, does it do this when just the battery is in	05:34
lcuk	no charger	05:34
spinnukur_	no	05:34
spinnukur_	only when plugged in	05:34
aspidites	might be the charger then. microusb port that is.	05:34
lcuk	ok, so if you put the battery in	05:34
lcuk	wait 10s, then press/hold the power button	05:35
lcuk	what happens	05:35
spinnukur_	nothing	05:35
lcuk	totally dead	05:35
spinnukur_	or if i try the "u" button thing then usb cord same thing again except the yellow light vibrate thing happens	05:35
spinnukur_	totally dead as in i need a new unit or what do you mean? cause I've tried switching out the battery with my gf's N900 battery and same thing still happens	05:36
lcuk	usb lead plugged in usually means its trying to do something else, you say without anything plugged in its totally dead, no lights no vibes no screen	05:36
spinnukur_	correct	05:36
lcuk	ok my next question was going to be try someone elses charged up battery	05:36
spinnukur_	yeah already tried that	05:36
aspidites	the the phone has power but it does nothing?	05:37
lcuk	did you have any problems before it shutdown the last time	05:37
aspidites	do you have sshserver/client installed on your n900?	05:37
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spinnukur_	yes aspidites, no lcuk only had problems when NSU went bollocks and said it encountered an error updating, afterwhich my unit stopped working	05:37
spinnukur_	no aspi	05:37
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aspidites	nvm then. was thinking you could remote into it and poke around	05:38
spinnukur_	Nokia Software Updater as stated before can go diaf while pound Santa...	05:38
spinnukur_	it was working perfectly before the update, had all my apps i wanted, my equirectangular desktop, my awesome "The Hangover" ringtone....then it decided to give me the finger... :(	05:39
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spinnukur_	im now back to using my e90 and it feels unnatural	05:40
aspidites	maemo got upset your pc was using windows and commited suicide :-\	05:40
spinnukur_	bingo	05:41
aspidites	on a serious note, unless the live usbdrive/cd trick works, i would imagine this is covered under warranty, yeah?	05:41
spinnukur_	im still within my return timeframe	05:41
spinnukur_	so ill just return it and get a new replacement sent to me	05:41
aspidites	I mean, is nokia REALLY going to make you pay to fix something that was allegedly caused by one of their official updates?	05:42
spinnukur_	no, cause im not gonna send it to them	05:42
spinnukur_	send it back to Amazon	05:42
aspidites	amazon finally started shipping?	05:42
spinnukur_	If you purchased anyting between Nov 1st-Dec15 they extended the return date till Jan 31	05:43
spinnukur_	yeah aspi	05:43
spinnukur_	been shipping for a while	05:43
aspidites	nice!	05:43
microlith	great	05:43
microlith	apparently my username on the nokia site is taken?	05:43
* microlith boggles		05:43
aspidites	got mine from jr.com. will miss the 30 day amazon buyers remorse policy though :( patience is a virtue i suppose	05:43
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spinnukur_	my unit that went kaput this morning i received on Nov.22 then ordered one for my gf on Dec 5th which arrived on Dec.22. if it comes down to it, ill steal my gf's n900 give her my e90 till i get the replacement from amazon	05:45
microlith	oh, guess not	05:45
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jebba	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Cryptsetup	05:54
odin_	well thats odin_ upgraded the OS, although the phone was left for 30mins after and it rebooted itself again (after the os upgradre reboot which gave the yellow configuration of OS update sucessful)	05:58
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goodwill	jebba: nice!!!!	06:04
goodwill	jebba, I love cryptsetup	06:04
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goodwill	there does not seem a way to adjust the bluetooth bluetooth	06:05
goodwill	when I use media player to increase it ... it has no effect	06:05
goodwill	and the default is too low	06:06
goodwill	alsamixer does not seem to have a way to adjust it	06:06
goodwill	any ideas?	06:06
phr	i get the impression they're still working the bugs out of the 900... i'm pretty hot to get one but am better off waiting for financial reasons among other things.	06:13
goodwill	I know that much ...	06:13
goodwill	its pulse audio though ... maybe there is a command line util	06:13
phr	i still have a 770 that i've basically never used	06:13
BirdFlew	how tricky is it to write a program which uploads the N900's gps coords to an ftp server at a certain interval?	06:15
goodwill	BirdFlew: security system?	06:15
lcuk	BirdFlew, for you specifically or a generic configurable app	06:16
BirdFlew	yup	06:16
BirdFlew	initially for myself	06:16
BirdFlew	new to linux coding so i don't yet have the skills to polish an app for general release	06:17
goodwill	BirdFlew: probably not hard ...	06:17
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BirdFlew	yeah i imagine it's quite simple, i just don't know how to go about it... is python capable enough or will it require c/c++?	06:18
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lcuk	the coding is less, its getting it running at startup thats more a pita	06:19
BirdFlew	hmm, yeah	06:20
Caesium	isn't there a standard way for statusbar widgets to start up?	06:20
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goodwill	BirdFlewyou can start it as a daemon	06:20
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goodwill	python should do	06:20
BirdFlew	sweet	06:20
lcuk	yeah Caesium but thats more involved coding wise	06:20
lcuk	and do you want a gui showing user they are being tracked	06:21
lcuk	o_O :D	06:21
BirdFlew	all i want for now is the basic backend	06:21
Caesium	I guess you need the dbus methods for the gps coords first hten	06:21
phr	birdflow doing it in python should be easy if the python std lib works	06:21
Caesium	then you can knock something up in python to get them and ftp it out	06:22
phr	there is an ftp module	06:22
goodwill	BirdFlew: dbus to gps and use urllib to post the coords	06:22
phr	or maybe there is a curl or wget port	06:22
phr	those support ftp	06:22
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BirdFlew	but ideally i'd like to put together a full blown security app... tracking, locking, sending msgs, pulling data etc	06:22
jaem	mornin'	06:22
BirdFlew	thanks a lot, goodwill	06:22
phr	how much is a 770 worth these days	06:22
phr	?	06:22
shinkamui	50-100$	06:22
jaem	who's the contact for the SDK VMs?	06:22
phr	thanks	06:22
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BirdFlew	thanks for the info guys	06:23
Caesium	would you need to tell the gps to get a lock separately or would it do it itself when you ask for coords?	06:23
Caesium	not looked at the gps dbus stuff	06:23
jaem	Caesium, I've never looked at it, but I'd guess the latter	06:23
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jaem	seeing how they do the rest of the wireless stuff	06:24
jaem	Caesium, just look it up on MXR	06:24
jaem	that would probably tell you quickly enough	06:24
Caesium	mxr? I think you've pre-empted my next question, is there a decent database of all the dbus calls :)	06:24
jaem	Caesium, mxr.maemo.org (source code search/x-ref), and no	06:25
jaem	:(	06:25
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jaem	FYI, full-text searches on mxr are darn slow, so try to use other fields as much as possible	06:25
jaem	Caesium, unfortunately, not all of the D-Bus calls in Maemo are not introspectable, either	06:26
jaem	Bluetooth isn't, for example - apparently due to legacy code	06:26
phr	is there a reasonable programming interface to the high res camera>	06:28
phr	?	06:28
jaem	hmm... looks like MXR may not be updated to the new service pack	06:28
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loft306	so i see the 899 wants to install a new maemo5	06:32
loft306	oops900	06:32
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jaem	loft306, the 899 isn't sold anymore ;)	06:35
loft306	lmao	06:36
jaem	loft306, it was from the same design team as the WE	06:37
jaem	-snerk-	06:37
loft306	i thought theas was sposed to be seamless.. the os updates..	06:37
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loft306	or is this still in a testing catalogL	06:37
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jaem	loft306, it is seamless	06:38
jaem	just not mandatory	06:38
loft306	lol	06:38
jaem	and that's a Good Thing (TM)	06:38
loft306	k	06:38
loft306	yepyep	06:39
loft306	i thought seemless was mandatory it'll do it for you without you being able to say no	06:39
jaem	loft306, naw, this is Linux	06:39
jaem	your choice	06:39
loft306	yepyep	06:40
Xisdibik	can the n900 grab the net connection from a laptop via BT/USB?	06:40
jaem	loft306, I like the fixes to the App Manager	06:40
loft306	thats whi i have a linux dewice	06:40
jaem	Xisdibik, if it supports USB networking, then yes	06:41
loft306	so your on it jaem	06:41
jaem	I'd think so, but I've never tried	06:41
jaem	loft306, :)	06:41
* loft306 goes for it		06:41
ColdFyre	the new maemo5 on the n900 does not include an updated kerne!	06:42
ColdFyre	kernel, too	06:42
jaem	loft306, well, the App Manager drops you back at the same place in the list, rather than the beginning	06:42
loft306	yay!	06:42
loft306	that was a pita	06:43
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Tester	ColdFyre: its just a pre-update.. the real one is coming later	06:44
jaem	Tester, O RLY?	06:45
* ColdFyre waits for the update that stops the random reboots :)		06:45
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loft306	lol ColdFyre that sucks	06:45
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loft306	well nhe booted back up and all seems good to go	06:47
jaem	\o/	06:47
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jaem	yeah, so apparently Nokia shipped my prof 3 more N900s when he only asked for one	06:48
jaem	woohoo	06:48
jaem	now we have 5	06:48
* jaem strokes his N900		06:48
loft306	lol	06:48
loft306	the'll bill him later	06:48
jaem	loft306, no, they're donated in some fashion	06:48
loft306	or is this for dev?	06:49
jaem	loft306, research project	06:49
loft306	ahh	06:49
jaem	which I'm getting payed for this semester :P	06:49
loft306	:)	06:49
jaem	although I guess you could say a loaner N900 was payment - they were going to use N97s before I volunteered and convinced them not to	06:50
jaem	heh	06:50
loft306	:)	06:50
* ColdFyre cant wait for the n1000		06:52
lcuk	jaem, liqflow :p	06:52
jaem	ColdFyre, me too	06:52
ColdFyre	1GB ram, 1.1ghz armv8	06:52
jaem	ColdFyre, naw	06:52
jaem	it comes with 16GB of RAM, and dual Xeons	06:52
jaem	and pwnies	06:52
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ColdFyre	mm pwnies!	06:52
jaem	lcuk, yes, what about it?	06:52
lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0	06:53
jaem	lcuk, yes, what about it?	06:53
loft306	anymore 900's loose there usb ports since the few round the 2nd week of december?	06:53
jaem	:P	06:53
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jaem	loft306, are you asking if the ports are loose, or if they magically disappeared?	06:53
* lcuk dunks jaem in a pot of glue and sticks him to the wall		06:53
jaem	lcuk, I wasn't sure of your context - I've seen the vid ages ago	06:54
loft306	the loose port bit jaem	06:54
Caesium	hm, N900 doesn't support being a modem over bluetooth? messing with pairing it with my laptop but it only supports file transfer and a couple of other useless things, according ot laptop	06:54
lcuk	u have more n900s than me	06:54
jaem	Caesium, I think there's an app that does it	06:54
jaem	lcuk, well, none of them are mine	06:54
jaem	also, you stink XP	06:54
ColdFyre	holy crap, watching that viid, i just relaized there is a spot for a lanyardon the n900	06:54
Caesium	jaem: ah ok, I'll have a look, ta :)	06:55
loft306	lol	06:55
lcuk	lol ColdFyre	06:55
loft306	just gotta find one to install ColdFyre	06:55
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ColdFyre	already have one from my old freerunner	06:55
ColdFyre	oh yeah, i am badass now.	06:56
Undrwater	ColdFyre: comparison?	06:56
ColdFyre	the FR vs n900?	06:56
loft306	swing it till it flies away there ColdFyre	06:56
Undrwater	ColdFyre: yes	06:56
ColdFyre	there is none	06:56
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ColdFyre	FR is slow, has many hardware glitches(issues charging from non ac apadters, gsm buzz, low gsm volume)	06:57
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Undrwater	ColdFyre: how do you usually use your phone? did you have smartphne before?	06:58
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ColdFyre	i went from moto a780 to FR to n900, i used them for daily usage(web/email/sms/mms)	06:58
Undrwater	ColdFyre: calendaring at all?	06:59
jaem	LOL... (from an app's ChangeLog): "Significantly unbreak feature foo"	06:59
jaem	that's not very reassuring	06:59
ColdFyre	if you mean by using it for scheduling meetings, yes	07:00
ColdFyre	and as alarm clock :)	07:00
Undrwater	ColdFyre: syncing and such?	07:00
ColdFyre	the freerunner is built like a rock, i dropped it on concrete many times, the n900 looks like it would shatter	07:01
ColdFyre	i never did syncing, but i know it was done commonly by others	07:01
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ColdFyre	now i'm going to wear my n900 around my neck like all of the cool people with ipods and iphones, nyuh!	07:03
loft306	now youll trip and fall on it	07:03
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ColdFyre	my e-penis isn't _that_ big	07:06
ColdFyre	oh, you mean the phone	07:06
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Proteous	the fm transmitter in the n900 is way better then in the n97	07:08
Proteous	all around more powerfull and doesn't seem to pick up the gsm noises either	07:08
Proteous	don't know for sure on that last part yet	07:08
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jaem	Proteous, there's an app in (devel? testing? -shrug) that apparently Boosts the Power (TM)	07:17
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Proteous	heh	07:20
hardaker	sigh... don't have enough disk space to install 'the' update...	07:20
hardaker	whimper.	07:20
jaem	hardaker, really? Are you doing this through apt, or HAM?	07:21
hardaker	HAM? I was doing it through the application manager.	07:21
hardaker	I haven't tried apt, but I thought about it.	07:21
jaem	hardaker, HAM==Hildon-Application-Manager	07:21
hardaker	ah.	07:21
hardaker	then HAM it is.	07:21
jaem	hardaker, I was asking because HAM handles downloads that don't fit in the package cache properly, whereas apt does not	07:22
hardaker	f /	07:22
hardaker	Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on	07:22
hardaker	rootfs 233104 216532 12292 95% /	07:22
jaem	so if it was apt giving you the error, I was going to tell you that was why	07:22
Caesium	ouch.	07:22
jaem	eep	07:22
hardaker	heh.	07:22
hardaker	wonder where it went... that's the problem with a small file system.	07:22
jaem	do you have stuff from -devel installed, or just a heck of a lot of other stuff?	07:22
Caesium	rebooted recently?	07:22
jaem	that too	07:22
Caesium	icon cache can free up some.	07:22
hardaker	lots of stuff from -devel, of course ;-)	07:22
hardaker	and yes, that's a recent reboot.	07:22
jaem	hardaker, :)	07:22
hardaker	I keep meaning to write a perl or python script to list all packages and the space in / they take up.	07:24
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hardaker	maybe now I'll be motivated.	07:24
jaem	hardaker, I'm pretty sure there already is one for *buntu or such	07:25
jaem	not sure what language, though	07:25
jaem	but I'm sure it's been done. multiple times	07:25
hardaker	yeah, but it needs to be somewhat specific to n900... ie, you need the partition info.	07:25
hardaker	me too.	07:25
jaem	oh, that	07:25
jaem	sorry - misread	07:25
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hardaker	there are a lot of things that do that generically.... (kflashlight or something was a popular one from kde)	07:26
jaem	filelight, you mean?	07:26
jaem	yeah, but I meant with apt	07:26
hardaker	that was it, yeah.	07:26
hardaker	anyway... gotta go tuck a kid into bed.... thanks for the sympothy.	07:27
jaem	hardaker, surprisingly, I actually like whatever GNOME's equivalent of that is better than Filelight, despite being a devoted KDE fan	07:27
hardaker	off to uninstall things.	07:27
jaem	better presentation of data, IMO	07:27
jaem	cheers	07:27
hardaker	jaem: I like whatever works!	07:27
lucent	Ovi store for N900 open finally huh	07:28
jaem	lucent, really?	07:28
* jaem goes to check it out		07:28
lucent	with the over-the-air update	07:28
lucent	and it doesn't work with the bookmark pre-installed on N900	07:29
lucent	you must go to store.ovi.com or similar	07:29
lucent	it's open on the 11th, rebate deadline was the 8th	07:29
lucent	fan-freaky-tastic.	07:29
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jaem	woo	07:29
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jaem	hmm... the Ovi store is shiny, but I'm not exactly sure why it's necessary, at least for apps	07:36
jaem	why not just make a shinier UI for HAM? Or am I missing something?	07:36
lucent	apps that cost money	07:36
lucent	I think	07:36
jaem	lucent, of which there are none yet, as far as I can see	07:36
jaem	and even so, with no DRM, how is that superior?	07:36
jaem	...not that DRM would make it better, but just sayin'	07:37
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lucent	it's a market positioning thing to (my opinion) to compete with Apple	07:37
lucent	who bloody knows	07:37
lucent	it's there and I think a week too late for those of us US buyers who were promised a $50 prepaid VISA card rebate to sign up for Ovi store and mail our rebate form before the 8th Jan 2010	07:38
jaem	lucent, that sounds reasonable	07:38
jaem	by which I mean that it sounds like something that they'd do, not that reason was involved	07:38
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jaem	well, I'm sure they'll extend that... they look bad enough not having it out for launch without going back on that	07:38
lucent	It's too bad we don't have ringtone-per-contact	07:39
lucent	I want a "mute" ringtone option for this number that keeps robo-dialing me	07:39
lucent	it's annoying beyond reason.	07:40
jaem	lucent, too bad it's probably not a real number	07:40
jaem	otherwise you might be able to just script something back at them	07:40
lucent	jaem: it's T-Mobile's collections department dialing me	07:40
jaem	lucent,	07:41
lucent	I've tried, T-Mobile reps are helpless to stop it	07:41
jaem	lucent, ah... then that may not be a wise move, bill-wise	07:41
jaem	-snerk-	07:41
jaem	:(	07:41
lucent	they suggested I change my phone number!	07:41
lucent	the insanity.	07:41
jaem	lucent, wow... is it a third party contracted to do it, or T-Mo themselves?	07:41
lucent	best suggestion I had so far was to set my ringtone for that number to mute	07:42
jaem	I've gotten similar calls for someone that used to live in my house, and I know how you feel	07:42
lucent	it's an 877 toll free area code number dialing me and owned by T-Mobile	07:42
lcuk	hy is it dialing you tho	07:42
jaem	it probably took about 10 times of actually waiting to talk to a real person and telling them that the person didn't live there any more, before they gave up	07:42
jaem	gah	07:42
lcuk	what does it say	07:42
lucent	lcuk: T-Mobile has a bug in their collections system	07:42
lucent	thinks I'm overdue for a payment of service that hasn't occurred yet	07:43
jaem	lucent, bwahahaah... um, er, sorry ^^	07:43
lucent	even the reps I talk to are like "SRSLY?! this succccks"	07:43
[Tycho]	There is no blacklisting in n900 ?	07:43
[Tycho]	Can you sue them ?	07:43
lucent	[Tycho]: cost of filing lawsuit? a lot of money here inUSA	07:44
Proteous	switch to google voice, then you can block them :)	07:44
* lcuk does not see the specifics		07:44
lucent	*in USA	07:44
lucent	it's not like um Germany or something	07:44
lcuk	but usually if its a robo machine and its misdialing you, it will be misdialing lots	07:44
* Caesium would like to start developing some phone feature apps but the lack of documentation is offputting		07:45
lucent	Proteous: not a bad idea actually	07:45
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Caesium	stuff like return busy/forward to voicemail for certain numbers	07:45
[Tycho]	lucent, aren't those cost paid by losing side, not you ?	07:45
lcuk	lucent, contract payment timing issue	07:45
lucent	Proteous: does that require an internet connection? I only get EDGE and not very reliably	07:45
lucent	[Tycho]: cost is paid by the person filing the lawsuit	07:45
jaem	Caesium, I know what you mean. If you're really stuck, the source does often have the corporate addresses for the actual devs	07:45
Proteous	not for most of the functionality	07:45
jaem	the guy I contacted for a clarification was pretty helpful	07:45
Proteous	if you want to use SMS through google voice it does	07:46
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Caesium	jaem: for instance, for that example I'm thinking I'd need to know via dbus when a call is incoming (I think I've seen the dbus for that) and how to tell the phone to forward it (which I haven't seen)	07:46
lucent	[Tycho]: you can file a lawsuit to recover the costs plus damages, but that takes literally years to go through the legal system, and then if it ever gets a judgement... you've paid hundreds of thousands in legal costs already beyond the settlement ammount	07:46
Caesium	but the phone app is closed source so that's a dead end? :(	07:46
jaem	Caesium, two things - firstly, there's a call forwarding app/widget/something in the repos	07:46
jaem	check if that's FOSS	07:47
lucent	Proteous: thanks for the advices :)	07:47
lcuk	lucent, or make the month payment and live happily ever after	07:47
jaem	secondly, these should help you with D-Bus: http://adrestia.creativemisconfiguration.com/files/ffejery/maemo/qt/	07:47
jaem	happy birthday	07:47
lucent	lcuk: the payment for 2 months ahead of my current billing period?	07:47
lucent	no way	07:47
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jaem	be warned that the UI is really unsuited for the N900, though	07:47
* lcuk was on quarterly billing for ages		07:47
jaem	Caesium, the Qt packages aren't built with those tools by default, but qdbusviewer should be a lot of help	07:48
jaem	I threw them up there for that reason	07:48
* Caesium looking for that app, probably a good start		07:48
lucent	well anyhow I'd be interested in a workaround like Proteous says, and an update to allow me to call forward certain numbers to voicemail without ringing	07:48
Caesium	E: Unable to find a source package for callforwarding	07:49
Caesium	boo.	07:49
lcuk	jaem source for the package?	07:49
lcuk	errr app	07:49
jaem	to whoever was asking for BT tethering earlier, it's in -testing	07:49
jaem	lcuk, Caesium well, I doubt it's called that	07:49
Caesium	Applet that allows defining busy, no answer, not available and	07:49
Caesium	unconditional call forwarding separately	07:49
Caesium	is that not the one you meant?	07:49
Caesium	that's 'callforwarding'	07:49
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jaem	Caesium, oh, sorry - missed what you said :P	07:50
jaem	Caesium, is this in sbox?	07:50
Caesium	no, on my device	07:50
Caesium	apt-get source callforwarding	07:50
jaem	Caesium, oh, yeah - the deb-src lines aren't in the sources.list on there	07:50
Caesium	oh maybe I need a deb-src line for testing	07:50
Caesium	I added my own for extras	07:50
* Caesium adds one for extras-testing too		07:50
jaem	Caesium, if you have a blog, consider posting some entry-level howtos on stuff like this	07:51
jaem	I've been meaning to for some of the BT stuff, in lieu of proper docs	07:51
Caesium	ooh there we go	07:51
Caesium	-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 334853 Dec 16 17:33 callforwarding_0.3.1.tar.gz	07:51
Caesium	:)	07:51
jaem	also, tutorials on potentially popular things like that are helpful, even with good docs	07:51
Caesium	I'll see what that can tell me	07:51
jaem	yay	07:51
lucent	I don't really have a need to play beethoven sympthony when Ned Flanders calls	07:53
lucent	just mute certain incoming numbers or callforward to voicemail	07:53
Caesium	I'm wondering if quickly setting up divert when a problematic number is calling will work, then turning it off again once they've gone	07:53
tigert	GeneralAntilles: looking	07:54
tigert	interesting	07:54
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jaem	wazd, hi	07:55
wazd	jaem: heya	07:55
wazd	mornin all	07:55
RST38h	heya wazd	07:59
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wazd	RST38h: http://lotro.ucoz.ru/Mer_boot_4.avi <- check it out, I'm thinking of remaking this video as Marina theme bootsplash :)	08:04
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jaem	wazd, is there audio in that?	08:05
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RST38h	wazd: caustic effects!	08:06
Caesium	grumble talk.maemo.org gave me a page fine a minute ago, now it won't for love nor money	08:07
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wazd_e63	hmm, wireless irc client is kinda cool	08:09
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RST38h	heh	08:09
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Caesium	lucent: if you can get it to load, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=465403 may be of interest	08:10
wazd_e63	Rst38h: it has nick auto completion!	08:10
Caesium	discussion about a call rejector	08:10
wazd	jaem: not yet	08:10
wazd	jaem: but I'm thinking about it :)	08:10
lucent	Caesium: looking at the link now, thanks	08:11
Caesium	can't tell if a working app came out of it because I only got to look at page 3 of the discussion, now it won't load anymore	08:11
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Caesium	but a simple python app might be enough from what I saw, just a couple of dbus methods	08:12
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lucent	t.m.o on fire?	08:12
Proteous	didn't t.m.o just upgrade to a n900?	08:12
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jaem	Proteous, yeah, but garage is still waiting for them to retire an N800	08:14
jaem	:)	08:14
Proteous	I see ;)	08:14
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jaem	disclaimer: I have no issue with garage personally - I just think the joke is funny	08:14
Undrwater	do the n900 calendar alarms vibrate?	08:14
lcuk	yes	08:14
jaem	Undrwater, clock alarms also override mute, I believe	08:15
jaem	calendar alarms don't	08:15
jaem	that may be configurable	08:15
lcuk	yes, its called dont set an alarm	08:15
Undrwater	jaem: but they do vibrate for events / appointments?	08:15
jaem	the rationale, I suppose, is that clock alarms are actual alarms, as opposed to "reminders"	08:15
jaem	Undrwater, yes	08:15
tigert	yea	08:15
jaem	depending on your profile settings	08:15
Undrwater	good	08:15
tigert	and theres pretty regular usecase for muting phone for night	08:16
Undrwater	oh! voice recording? voice notes? any apps for that...or a nice hardware button?	08:16
tigert	and still wanting to wakeup at 7am	08:16
Proteous	if you set a clock alarm to go off when you are in a meeting you get what you deserver for being dumb	08:16
Caesium	there is a voice recording app in extras, yes	08:16
jaem	Undrwater, yeah, that's one thing that annoyed me with the N810, which I previously used for calendaring	08:16
Undrwater	tigert: via accellerometers?	08:16
tigert	Undrwater: not via accelerometers automatically	08:16
tigert	that would be bad	08:17
tigert	imagine ther phone in your backpack	08:17
Undrwater	tigert: face down = dnd	08:17
tigert	it would silence accidentally too easily when you toss the bag on your bed after work	08:17
tigert	but it silences incoming calls like that	08:17
Undrwater	but only between 10:00pm and 6:00am	08:17
tigert	if you get a call, flip it face down to silence	08:18
* lcuk never puts device facedown		08:18
Undrwater	nice	08:18
Undrwater	lcuk: dun wanna dis your device?	08:18
lcuk	tigert, held facedown or have to put it on desk like you hung up	08:18
tigert	i guess it would be easy to hack a tool to switch profiles based on time of day	08:18
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jaem	tigert, one would hope	08:18
tigert	maybe hook this via alarm framework even	08:19
jaem	that would actually be pretty cool	08:19
Undrwater	we talked about it for OM...slow going :P	08:19
lcuk	Undrwater, its just risking random scratches	08:19
tigert	but the problem with automatic shit is, how much is too much?	08:19
Undrwater	tigert: like kde?	08:19
Proteous	when it cooks me breakfast then it's almost too much	08:19
Proteous	but not quite	08:19
Undrwater	:D	08:19
lcuk	speaking of which, i absent mindedly picked up my "stylus" and was about an inch away from writing something	08:20
jaem	tigert, I know what you mean... for some things, I feel better if I can just open vim and mess with things with the assurance that the config won't magically change on me	08:20
tigert	heh	08:20
lcuk	before i realised it was the tweezers	08:20
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jaem	lcuk, :O	08:20
Proteous	heh	08:20
tigert	yeah	08:20
goodwill	lcuk: there is a bright side to this	08:20
tigert	lcuk: :)	08:20
goodwill	lcuk: it was not a steak flag	08:20
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goodwill	flag=knife	08:20
Undrwater	BT headset works well?	08:21
tigert	or a stick of superglue	08:21
tigert	Undrwater: yes	08:21
lcuk	tho on the upside, i got a highscore with n900fly	08:21
jaem	lcuk, >_<	08:21
lcuk	:O tt	08:21
tigert	Undrwater: ask konttori_nokia	08:21
jaem	I hope you were doing this in a foam pit :P	08:21
tigert	Undrwater: he has this nice nokia bt stereo headset	08:21
Undrwater	tigert: regarding BT?	08:21
tigert	with his own headphones	08:21
* jaem heads off to the gymnastics center ;)		08:21
lcuk	jaem, you not gonna ask	08:22
lcuk	how high	08:22
jaem	lcuk, sigh how high	08:22
lcuk	:D	08:22
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Undrwater	tigert: how bout that in-car BT support thingy? pbab?	08:22
lcuk	2.51m o_O	08:22
jaem	lcuk, >_<	08:22
tigert	lcuk: hehe	08:22
lcuk	encased inside my sleeping bag tho	08:22
jaem	Undrwater, not sure - there's a bug	08:22
tigert	N900Fly tournament? ;)	08:22
jaem	or at least, it turned into a bug about that	08:22
lcuk	tigert, indeed, i put it in the middle of my bag	08:22
jaem	Undrwater, it started off with people moaning about the N900 not supporting a non-standard HFP extension	08:23
jaem	lol	08:23
lcuk	after i banged it on one of first attempts	08:23
tigert	lcuk: dude DUDE	08:23
lcuk	on the ceiling	08:23
lcuk	:$	08:23
tigert	lcuk: this SO needs to be done in a model rocket with parachute recovery	08:23
tigert	imagine!	08:23
lcuk	:D:D:D lardman does rockets	08:23
tigert	"1854m"	08:23
lcuk	trebucet would get the flight time	08:23
Undrwater	is lardman part of this community?	08:24
lcuk	hahaha	08:24
Caesium	tigert: wouldn't that mess with the reading? I thought it used freefall condition to measur height :P	08:24
tigert	=)	08:24
lcuk	yes	08:24
jaem	lcuk, what's the accel range on the chip?	08:24
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lcuk	out of this world	08:24
Proteous	I get my tmobile sim tomorrow, if the data connection even works at all around 2pm then it is automaticly better then ATT	08:24
jaem	does anyone know offhand which IC it is?	08:24
jaem	or at least who makes it?	08:24
tigert	Caesium: there is acceleration when you therow it too	08:24
lcuk	Caesium, yeah it does	08:24
lcuk	hence rockets not perfect	08:24
Undrwater	many zaurus users here?	08:24
goodwill	ovi store works pretty well	08:24
Caesium	someone should take an N900 skydiving with n900fly loaded :P	08:25
tigert	lcuk: even throwing the device created positive G	08:25
jaem	I'll be back later... poke me if you need to	08:25
lcuk	Caesium, yeah!	08:25
tigert	does it measure the fall or the rise?	08:25
Proteous	the fall	08:25
Proteous	useless to measure the rise	08:25
Proteous	unless you are trying to stop people from dropping it off their roof for a high score I guess	08:26
BirdFlew	python is amazing... i've gone from never having seen an example of its source code to writing a functional gps coordinate uploader in two hours :-D	08:26
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Proteous	nice	08:26
Caesium	nice one :)	08:26
rkc_	anybody using xchat for this irc?	08:26
Shadikka	BirdFlew: Isn't it? <3	08:26
Proteous	coughirssicough	08:26
flux	hmm, it doesn't measure both the rise and fall?	08:26
Proteous	I don't know, just speculating	08:26
Undrwater	Proteous: you're not using irssi??	08:26
lcuk	BirdFlew, so we can tell if you fly south for the winter? and if you do, could you install n900fly too :D	08:27
Proteous	I am	08:27
Undrwater	on the phone?	08:27
rkc_	nope.. on ubuntu	08:27
Proteous	by proxy	08:27
Undrwater	ahh...	08:27
Proteous	sshed into my server running a screen session with irssi	08:27
BirdFlew	i'm already south for the winter mate, in australia	08:27
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BirdFlew	and it's very, very far from winter now	08:27
Undrwater	that's lovely...doing this from my phone! :)	08:27
Proteous	:)	08:27
Proteous	the return key doesn't work in mutt though :/	08:28
rkc_	Undrwater:which client do u use?	08:28
\|R	Has mymenu any chance of interfering with future updates (PR1.[12) ?	08:28
Proteous	gotta see what I can do about that	08:28
Undrwater	rkc_: for phone?	08:28
rkc_	i am trying to use xchat.. but it doesnot connect tot he irc server	08:28
rkc_	irc.freenode.net/8001 is my server setting	08:29
Proteous	why 8001?	08:29
Undrwater	rkc_: for most things i use pidgin...phone is openmoko...considering move to n900	08:29
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Undrwater	i used irssi when i had a server	08:29
rkc_	Undrwater: I am trying to setup in my linux desktop	08:29
BirdFlew	rkc_, i'm using xchat	08:29
rkc_	BirdFlew: Please tell me your server settings	08:30
Undrwater	rkc_: how are you talking to us?	08:30
rkc_	webchat.freenode.net	08:30
rkc_	:)	08:30
Undrwater	ahh	08:30
rkc_	any help?	08:31
pupnik	nokia provides what openmoko lacked	08:31
BirdFlew	irc.freenode.net, which redirects to chat.freenode.net:6667	08:31
Proteous	rkc_ try not using port 8001	08:32
lucent	Proteous: wait until they turn collections robo-dial on your account	08:32
BirdFlew	freenode was simply already on a preloaded list of servers in xchat	08:32
rkc_	then what si the port to use, Proteous?	08:32
phr	talk.maemo.org down ?	08:32
Proteous	lucent: heh	08:32
lucent	Proteous: oh except that you have a workaround - Google Voice :)	08:32
* RST38h once again considers making xchat autojoin #maemo by default		08:32
Proteous	rkc_: don't specify a port and it will use the standard irc port of 6667	08:33
rkc_	BirdFlew: yes.. i found that and tried configuring with chat.freenode.net:6667	08:33
lucent	Proteous: FYI I moved from being a longer-than-5-years customer of AT&T (formerly Cingular) toward T-Mobile	08:33
Undrwater	is skype already on the n900? or is that future?	08:33
phr	included i think	08:33
lucent	Undrwater: Skype is "integrated"	08:33
BirdFlew	phr: yeah i'm having trouble reaching it	08:33
Proteous	lucent: ATTs data has really got to shit in my town	08:33
Proteous	lucent: it doesn't really work at all during the day	08:33
BirdFlew	rkc_: no luck?	08:33
Undrwater	lucent: does that mean anything? ;)	08:33
lucent	Proteous: yuck about that	08:34
rkc_	BirdFlew: nop luck	08:34
lucent	Undrwater: well it's not a full Skype client	08:34
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Proteous	lucent: I blame all the iphone users	08:34
rkc_	do i need nicksever password?	08:34
BirdFlew	rkc_: can you connect to any other irc servers?	08:34
rkc_	and server password_	08:34
Proteous	rkc_: no	08:34
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BirdFlew	nah	08:34
Proteous	rkc_: no	08:34
rkc_	BirdFlew: no..	08:34
lucent	Undrwater: I can't find out how to initiate a text chat with multiple Skype users from the N900, but if one is initiated and a participant speaks, you can participate and talk with them	08:34
Undrwater	lucent: what's it missing?	08:34
Proteous	sounds like a network/firewall problem	08:34
rkc_	Proteous: looks like.. how can i check whether some program is blocking me to use that?	08:35
Undrwater	lucent: video support?	08:35
lucent	Undrwater: authorizing contacts to see your online presence after-the-fact is not really exposed, so I don't know if it can be done	08:35
lucent	Undrwater: don't know about video call support	08:35
BirdFlew	as a side note, anyone know a shortcut key for nick completion in xchat? N900 has no tab key :-(	08:35
Proteous	rkc_: uh	08:35
lucent	Undrwater: I know that the kernel driver for the forward facing webcam hardware on the N900 is mis-configuring the hardware	08:36
lucent	it looks very very badly	08:36
lucent	unusable for anything	08:36
Proteous	rkc_: answering that would require lots of details about your setup that I don't have time to get into now	08:36
Undrwater	ouch	08:36
rkc_	Proteous: thats fine.. no problem.. I will check out here	08:36
Caesium	BirdFlew: try shift-space? (semi-random guess)	08:36
lucent	Undrwater: Skype voice dialing is just like any other option when calling a contact, it works	08:36
Undrwater	rkc_: start xchat from the command line and see if it's telling you anything useful	08:37
Undrwater	lucent: that's nice...how about SIP? any good clients?	08:37
BirdFlew	Caesium: thanks, it worked	08:37
lucent	Undrwater: like, "Don't pet a burning dog. Now starting xchat..."	08:37
BirdFlew	:-)	08:37
Undrwater	hehee	08:38
* Undrwater considers re-doing his asterisk box		08:38
lucent	Undrwater: I haven't tried SIP dialing but that too is integrated	08:38
Proteous	drink more ovaltine	08:39
lucent	SIP, Skype, and cellular calls are all options when dialing a contact	08:39
Proteous	SIP MORE OVALTINE!	08:39
Proteous	I've actualy never had ovaltine	08:39
Proteous	wonder if it's gross	08:39
Undrwater	huh...add $100 for a decent fxo,fxs card	08:39
Undrwater	Proteous: i used to love it	08:39
* lucent notices Proteous growing out "Annie orphan" hairstyle		08:40
Undrwater	back when i loved anything sweet	08:40
Proteous	lucent: and my eyes are slowly losing their pupils	08:40
lcuk	RST38h, doesnt the nick need configuring too	08:40
Proteous	nick huh	08:40
Undrwater	finally...ATT users happy with n900?	08:40
Proteous	?	08:41
lcuk	good idea tho if you can get reasonable nick first	08:41
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Proteous	I'm an ATT user and I am happy with my n900 but I am not happy with ATT	08:41
lucent	+1 for Pro	08:41
* lucent stabs irssi client		08:41
Proteous	tomorrow I will not be and ATT user	08:41
Undrwater	Proteous: i was going to make sure that the reverse was NOT the question ;)	08:41
Proteous	heh	08:41
Undrwater	Proteous: moving to tmobile?	08:42
Proteous	yeah	08:42
loft306	:)	08:42
Undrwater	reasons?	08:42
lucent	I'm not happy with T-mobile robo-dialing me to collect payment	08:42
Proteous	gonna ride the $10 unlimited data plan for as long as they let me	08:42
lucent	...at 7AM	08:42
loft306	lol lucent that is a pita	08:42
Proteous	Undrwater: becuase ATT data is broken in my town	08:42
Undrwater	Proteous: what town?	08:42
Proteous	Undrwater: and undisclosed location in California	08:43
Proteous	s/and/an/	08:43
infobot	Proteous meant: Undrwater: an undisclosed location in California	08:43
Proteous	north of san fancisco	08:43
Proteous	man, my typing is horrible today	08:43
Undrwater	Proteous: ahh, ok...i'm socal, but i can't afford data anyway	08:43
lucent	Proteous: I'm doing exactly this with T-Mobile, it's an "FlexPay Even More Plus 500" plan and then I add $10/mo unlimited internet access, total after taxes is $45.06/mo	08:43
Proteous	lucent: yeah, that's what I got	08:44
Undrwater	kills me that i can't buy a smart phone without data	08:44
Proteous	lucent: dont' really talk much, 500 minutes is fine for me	08:44
Undrwater	lucent: that include sms?	08:44
lucent	Proteous: there's a line control charge $5/mo so you can get that waived if you're signed up for automatic payment ("EasyPay")	08:44
Proteous	lucent: they hid the flexpay options, had to hunt around on howardforums for the direct link to it	08:44
lucent	no SMS here	08:44
Proteous	lucent: yeah, I signed up for the autopay	08:45
Undrwater	lucent: for real?	08:45
lucent	Proteous: trying to sign up for flexpay was a freaking nightmare here, lucky you found a direct link	08:45
Undrwater	lucent: your teenagers must be outraged	08:45
lucent	"Sir, your credit score is too good, I cannot sign you up for FlexPay"	08:45
Proteous	lucent: it was still sorta annoying, for the non flexplay EMP plan you could get a sim only, they didn't have the option for flexpay EMP	08:46
lucent	Undrwater: I've never had a need for SMS, that whole concept eludes me to this day.	08:46
luke-jr	teenagers have no business making cell phone calls to anyone other than family	08:46
Proteous	lucent: had to by a $40 nokia phone	08:46
Proteous	buy	08:46
lucent	Proteous: yuck? :P	08:46
Proteous	heh, guess it's good as a backup once I can pawn my n97 off on someone...	08:46
Proteous	(still bitter about buying a n97 right before the n900 came out)	08:47
Undrwater	not sure how it goes anywhere else, but socal teens have their noses in their phones texting all day....even when around their friends	08:47
Proteous	if I want to deal with switching everyone over to using my google voice number I can text for free though google voice	08:47
Undrwater	anyone here wanna buy an openmoko?	08:47
Undrwater	:)	08:47
Proteous	heh	08:47
luke-jr	Undrwater: for the right price	08:48
Proteous	I have a n810 floating around too...	08:48
Undrwater	not sure what the right price is...	08:48
lucent	N900 is not the ultimate or anything near it	08:48
Proteous	lucent: yes it is!	08:48
lucent	Maemo is just very nice, the best I've seen for a mobile device OS	08:48
Proteous	lucent: you prefer something with winmo on it?	08:48
lucent	N900 runs Maemo. That's a deal maker for me	08:48
luke-jr	Undrwater: which phone?	08:48
Undrwater	luke-jr: a5 w/ buzzfix	08:49
Undrwater	gta02	08:49
Proteous	lucent: the n900 still has teh new phone glow on it	08:49
luke-jr	Proteous: software can be replaced wben/if someone finally releases a phoen that runs real Linux	08:49
Proteous	for me anyway	08:49
Undrwater	luke-jr: maemo is not real linux?	08:49
luke-jr	no, Maemo uses a fork/branch off Linux for now	08:50
Proteous	Undrwater: if Linus didn't write it himself it's not real linux	08:50
Proteous	:P	08:50
luke-jr	Proteous: Linus doesn't write much really, just maintains the tree	08:50
Proteous	I know :)	08:50
lucent	Proteous: at the moment my N900 lacks functionality that I frequently used on my Nokia 6112	08:50
Proteous	more like a gatekeeper nowdays	08:50
Undrwater	kernel is not from upstream?	08:50
luke-jr	Undrwater: I almost got a pair Freerunner + Neo1973 off ebay for $125 combined.	08:50
luke-jr	Undrwater: kernel has roots upstream, but no, it isn't vanilla upstream	08:51
Proteous	lucent: is the 6112 a s60 phone?	08:51
lucent	Proteous: Yeah, great guess too... well it's symbian I think whatever AT&T's GoPhones are	08:51
Undrwater	luke-jr: that's scary...maybe more valuable to keep it	08:51
luke-jr	Undrwater: >_<	08:52
Undrwater	i'll use it as my asterisk box	08:52
lucent	Proteous: strictly talking about using this as a phone, the N900 is kind of low on the usefulness ladder	08:52
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luke-jr	Undrwater: fact is, however, there is not a single pocket device that mainline runs on AFAIK	08:52
Undrwater	lucent: how do you qualify that statement?	08:52
luke-jr	at least not of the current generation	08:53
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Proteous	lucent: what features are you missing on the n900?	08:53
Undrwater	luke-jr: i believe zaurus is now mainlined ;)	08:53
luke-jr	Undrwater: yes, that's like 3 or 4 generations old now though: )	08:53
Undrwater	but you're right...current generation	08:53
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Undrwater	don't call my Tosa OLD!! >:(	08:54
lucent	Undrwater: battery capacity not enough to keep me going all day without having to stop for a charge, bluetooth requires more keypresses, no ringtone-per-contact	08:54
luke-jr	and unfortunately, the alternative to Maemo is Android, which is ever further from mainline -.-	08:54
lucent	volume button inconsistencies make me absolutely frustrated	08:54
Proteous	heh	08:55
Undrwater	lucent: what's with the BT and keypresses?	08:55
lucent	switching ringtone profiles from hardware keys	08:55
Undrwater	luke-jr: there's webOS too	08:55
Undrwater	is there voice recognition on the n900?	08:56
Termana_n810	luke-jr - the SmartQ 5 (Samsung S3C6410) has been mainlined in .32 - untested, but it there and compiles	08:56
lucent	the N900 is not a terribly good phone, that's all I am getting at	08:56
Termana_n810	its*	08:56
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lucent	I absolutely love using Maemo on the N900 though	08:57
Undrwater	my busted up treo is still in use :P	08:57
lucent	is t.m.org under some kind of attack?	08:58
Proteous	lucent: I haven't had my n900 long enough to figure out what functions are missing	08:58
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Undrwater	raster is partnering with samsung	08:58
Proteous	lucent: but the phone functionality only has to be passable to please me, I value the internet tablet part more	08:58
BirdFlew	ditto, Proteous	08:59
lucent	Proteous: agreed, same here	08:59
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Proteous	lucent: I was totaly blown away with how user friendly and just all around amazing the contact manager was	08:59
tigert	luke-jr: I thought most linux distros ship a tuned/customized kernel	08:59
lucent	contact manager needs some kind of accelerometer hack to scroll faster	08:59
BirdFlew	and the internet functionality makes my previous winmo device look very clunky by comparison	08:59
lucent	and portrait mode to show more per screenfull	08:59
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tigert	lucent: N900 is not a smartphone like the symbian ones	09:00
tigert	its a small computer that also does phone stuff	09:00
Proteous	I imported my contacts from my sim card and went through them to clean them up and every time I though, "you know, it sure would be nice if I could say, switch this number from cell to home without copying it and pasting it into the other field... Oh shit, I can"	09:00
lucent	tigert: In that context, it's really a great device :)	09:00
Proteous	there were a bunch of similar things like that	09:00
Undrwater	tigert: distros may patch the kernel...wich goes back to mainline...forked kernel patches don't make it back	09:00
tigert	lucent: yeah	09:00
luke-jr	Termana_n810: including board data?	09:01
tigert	lucent: I missed the per-contact ringtone stuff too,	09:01
tigert	but then again, wtf	09:01
tigert	:)	09:01
lucent	:)	09:01
luke-jr	tigert: most distros ship a custom kernel, but still work with vanilla.	09:01
lucent	the UI approach would be so easy	09:01
tigert	wouldnt switch back to my N95 just for that	09:01
lucent	add a contact detail that is the ringtoone	09:01
Proteous	lucent: I'm sure they will add that functionality soon	09:01
BirdFlew	i'm still stoked by the little things, like that i was able to head down to the local cafe, have a cappachino and return home without leaving this irc session. freedom is a wonderful thing	09:01
luke-jr	Termana_n810: regardless, the definition I use for 'handheld' includes a keyboard	09:01
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tigert	luke-jr: well, if you have a stock PC a vanilla kernel might make sense	09:01
luke-jr	tigert: there is no such thing as a stock PC	09:02
tigert	luke-jr: if you have a pretty specialized hw setup you usually build your own anyway	09:02
Proteous	coming from my n97, the browser on the n900 is fucking amazing	09:02
Termana_n810	luke-jr, board data as in specifications for the board?	09:02
phr	anyone know anything about programming the high-res camera, i.e. is there a documented interface to /dev/camera or some such ?	09:02
luke-jr	handhelds are far more stock than other PCs	09:02
tigert	luke-jr: a self-built kernel is not stock either :)	09:02
luke-jr	Termana_n810: as in the .c file that defines the device	09:02
lucent	phr: directly? or via Video4Linux2	09:02
tigert	luke-jr: you mean you never used any non-upstream kernel driver or stuff for your custom hardware piece?	09:02
Undrwater	depends on how you define "self-built"	09:02
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tigert	luke-jr: of course we tuned the kernel so it works the best we can make it work	09:03
luke-jr	tigert: I don't create hardware. I don't buy hardware unless it's already supported upstream, or I have reason to believe will be.	09:03
phr	lucent, hmm, i hadn't thought about v4l, main thing is i want to be able to read images without running some app that records them to flash	09:03
BirdFlew	Proteous: if i may suggest a shudder microsoft product... outlook migrated my contacts from a previous device complete with pictures and extra fields	09:03
Termana_n810	luke-jr, Yes none of it is closed source, its always been open source, it just got merged from samsungs kernel	09:03
luke-jr	tigert: 'we'?	09:03
BirdFlew	sim card transfer can lose those extra details	09:04
tigert	luke-jr: I work for nokia	09:04
lucent	phr: pretty sure it's via v4l and /dev/videoN	09:04
luke-jr	Termana_n810: just because it is open does not imply it can be easily merged. good for them	09:04
tigert	lucent: just not in the kernel though	09:04
tigert	lucent: been hacking the theme template stuff	09:04
luke-jr	tigert: I see.	09:04
lucent	phr: 'mbarcode' package provides an example of using the rear facing 5.0MP camera to capture frames and detect barcodes	09:04
Proteous	BirdFlew: I didn't have any of that stuff setup in my previous device, cause the interface to do that shit on my previous device made me want to shoot myself	09:04
Undrwater	tigert: is the company excited about this device?	09:05
tigert	Undrwater: I am :D	09:05
luke-jr	tigert: well, Mameo's kernel is far from merely 'tuned'; real/mainline/Linus's/upstream Linux will not run on it, and in the case of the N810 will probably never do so at the current rate	09:05
tigert	Undrwater: I cannot speak for a company of course	09:05
phr	lucent, hmm, that sounds interesting, maybe i can adapt it	09:05
phr	thanks	09:05
tigert	but we love our own puppy of course	09:05
phr	it's v4l for both video and still modes?	09:05
luke-jr	tigert: not to mention the GPL-workaround of putting drivers in userland to close them up.	09:06
phr	is autofocus built into the camera or is there software required?	09:06
tigert	luke-jr: yeah	09:06
tigert	luke-jr: if you ask me, I am much of a freesoftware guy anyway	09:07
lucent	phr: I don't know	09:07
tigert	but I can understand there might be reasons for this kind of stuff	09:07
luke-jr	tigert: anyhow, I have little trust for Nokia as a result of my N810 purchase which turned out to be false advertising as far as I'm concerned. probably won't buy any more handhelds without personally verifying the code for them exists in a mainlinable form.	09:07
tigert	but keep argumenting in a sensible way towards the people working with the licensing area and things can change	09:08
luke-jr	tigert: for the 3D, I can understand; that half is normally userland anyway	09:08
Termana_n810	luke-jr, then it justs too bad the smartq's dont have keyboards - otherwise they would be perfect for you	09:08
tigert	luke-jr: openness is a continuous effort in a big organisation	09:08
Termana_n810	just*	09:08
Termana_n810	its*	09:08
luke-jr	Termana_n810: indeed. or Nexus One. ;)	09:09
luke-jr	though the latter has Android cruft in its way of merging	09:09
luke-jr	but I would hope since it's the first device with 512 MB RAM, someone might get around that anyway	09:09
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Termana_n810	luke-jr, i thought the Nexus One only had an onscreen keyboard?	09:10
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luke-jr	Termana_n810: right, but we were talking in theory of "too bad there's no keyboard" :P	09:10
BirdFlew	is there any way to turn off automatic capitalisation in pygteditor?	09:10
phr	lucent, thanks, i'll see if i can find some docs about it	09:11
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luke-jr	also, I'd probably want a 4" display	09:11
Termana_n810	luke-jr, ahh ok :P	09:11
luke-jr	or 5" I guess, if it really does fit in pockets	09:11
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Proteous	you just need bigger pants	09:13
luke-jr	the first company that builds a handheld with 4-5" display, 512 MB RAM, good keyboard, and real Linux, probably has guaranteed a purchase from me, even if it costs $800 or so.	09:13
Undrwater	hang it from your neck	09:13
luke-jr	:p	09:13
Termana_n810	luke-jr, you could just build your own device :P	09:13
luke-jr	Termana_n810: oh really?	09:13
luke-jr	I wasn't aware building handhelds was that trivial :P\	09:13
Undrwater	gta02 core	09:13
tigert	BirdFlew: text input settings	09:13
* Proteous wants to see luke-jr holding a 5" display with keyboard phone up to his head to take a call		09:13
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Proteous	it will feel like the 80's all over again	09:14
Undrwater	luke-jr: gta02-core	09:14
tigert	BirdFlew: I think its a global thing, but there might be a per-widget flag too	09:14
luke-jr	Proteous: I don't want a stupid phone ;)	09:14
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* lucent +1 for Proteous		09:14
tigert	luke-jr: that would be a minilaptop?	09:14
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lucent	anti-Zoolander	09:14
luke-jr	Proteous: if it supports CDMA+3G+iDEN, that would be sweet though... usign a Bluetooth headset	09:14
Undrwater	my Tosa with GSM	09:14
Undrwater	...and bluetooth	09:14
Proteous	luke-jr: there were some interesting large screen devices floating around at CES	09:15
luke-jr	tigert: sure, but one that I can carry around in my pocket. Zaurus SL-C760 was the perfect form factor IMO	09:15
luke-jr	Undrwater: and a sane amount of RAM	09:15
Undrwater	indeed	09:15
luke-jr	ideally with removable internal and external storage would be sweet too	09:15
Undrwater	luke-jr: you mean NAND, of course?	09:15
luke-jr	I'd grab one of those super-fast SDs for it :p	09:16
luke-jr	Undrwater: no, RAM	09:16
Termana_n810	luke-jr - i didn't say it was particularly easy. It is doable however. Google "Beagleboard MID"	09:16
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Undrwater	tosa had...what...64?	09:16
luke-jr	Undrwater: right	09:16
luke-jr	Undrwater: next generation of smartphones (beginning with Nexus One) have 512	09:16
Undrwater	luke-jr: and n900?	09:16
luke-jr	N900 is 256 MB	09:17
luke-jr	it's "current gen" :p	09:17
luke-jr	I could probably be convinced to go for 256 if everything else was OK, but not for $800 :P	09:17
BirdFlew	is nexus one that much more revolutionary than the n900 to call it next gen? or are you basing this on release dates	09:18
luke-jr	BirdFlew: I care about nothing other than the hardware.	09:18
Undrwater	BirdFlew: maybe he's basing it on RAM ;)	09:18
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luke-jr	pretty much, in this case :)	09:18
luke-jr	512 MB is so much more useful than 256 MB	09:18
BirdFlew	or cpu... snapdragon sounds nice	09:18
lucent	N900 hardware lacks host usb support, and lacks multi-touch screen	09:19
lucent	resistive / capacitive is not the problem for the screen	09:19
luke-jr	QSD is really only a minor step up from OMAP3	09:19
BirdFlew	i think you can do usb host with n900?	09:19
lucent	BirdFlew: show me, please?	09:19
luke-jr	BirdFlew: no	09:19
phr	the 800/810 had usb otg but they apparently got rid of it in the 900	09:19
BirdFlew	got an app which claims to do that... haven't tested it though	09:19
luke-jr	lucent: for resistive screens, multitouch is a software issue	09:19
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sleipnir	i don't get why ppl want multitouch... have you guys ever tried to place more than one finger on a 3.5" screen?	09:20
gandhii	i think i just saw an app in gthe list for usb hosting	09:20
luke-jr	BirdFlew: it would probably require external hardware	09:20
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Undrwater	lucent: eh? no usb host on n900?	09:20
lucent	luke-jr: are you suggesting that the N900 could be multi-touch enabled with only a software update?	09:20
luke-jr	lucent: in theory.	09:20
luke-jr	lucent: IIRC, there is a patent	09:20
lucent	last I researched, it sounded like host usb and multi-touch were blocked by a lack of wires being connected etc.	09:21
lcuk	the theory would be pretty exceptional, you can do limited 2 touch and preconfigured hotzones	09:21
Undrwater	i remember the early adverts touted usb host	09:21
Termana_n810	luke-jr - i can't remember the name of it, but if we're talking about the same thing, i thought that didn't work very well.	09:21
lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM	09:22
gandhii	i'm no fan of iphone.. but 2 person air hockey was a good use of multitouch	09:22
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lucent	sleipnir: using the touch screen as a musical input controller is a "killer app"	09:22
luke-jr	Termana_n810: no idea, only read about it	09:22
BirdFlew	ah.. program was called usbcontrol, according to a talk thread it's no real use	09:22
lcuk	Termana_n810, luke-jr video i just posted	09:22
luke-jr	lcuk: it's Youtube. :P	09:22
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lcuk	and?	09:23
gandhii	music pda apps have been around since palm os	09:23
luke-jr	= Flash = non-Free	09:23
tigert	luke-jr: become a hopper? those pants fit a thinkpad :)	09:23
luke-jr	tigert: -.-	09:23
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Xisdibik	lcuk: new job for you	09:23
luke-jr	tigert: Thinkpad is x86. :P	09:23
lcuk	Xisdibik, mm?	09:24
luke-jr	tigert: also, I can't type on a Thinkpad while I'm driving	09:24
luke-jr	<.<	09:24
Xisdibik	lcuk: n900 needs this ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyzSUyre5N8	09:24
Proteous	luke-jr: don't type on anything while driving please, dont' do it for you, do it for us... please...	09:24
lucent	microphone as pressure sensor, multi-touch screen as virtual woodwind holes = instant breath synth controller	09:24
luke-jr	Proteous: it's a good test for usability as a handheld? :P	09:25
Proteous	:P	09:25
luke-jr	Proteous: in practice, I just want to restart kismet! :P	09:25
lucent	so to the point, lots of interesting uses for multi-touch on a tiny little screen	09:25
jaem	-poke- who was asking about an app to display disk usage/distribution a while back?	09:25
Undrwater	hmmm...going to have to rethink the n900 choice if it doesn't have usb host	09:25
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jaem	whoever it was, there's something that looks to be of that sort in -testing	09:26
Proteous	some guy who can't boot his n900 anymore cause his rootfs is full	09:26
lucent	Undrwater: you will either want a phone, a computer, or a web browser in your pocket	09:26
Undrwater	luke-jr: cvoicecontrol?	09:26
lcuk	Xisdibik, hah thats cool, theres a sheepdog game in development at the moment that has similar sorts of graphics and we hope to have multitple types of levels	09:26
lcuk	thanks for link, im gonna post it there for ideas	09:26
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Undrwater	lucent: in other words...not all three?	09:26
luke-jr	Undrwater: sound is not doable for N810	09:26
luke-jr	but maybe :P	09:27
luke-jr	still going to use typing-while-driving as a quality measurement though	09:27
luke-jr	XD	09:27
lucent	Undrwater: you still need to own a real computer and stuff.	09:27
Xisdibik	lcuk: np, a game based off a true harvest moon game would also be good (ie, farming!) :)	09:27
lcuk	Xisdibik, theres loads of scope for many games	09:27
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Undrwater	lucent: yes...but i don't want 2 devices in my pocket	09:27
Proteous	jaem, it was hardaker	09:28
Undrwater	and i want to be able to connect my dive computer to my pocket device	09:28
luke-jr	Undrwater: I want a computer. Ideally, with cell connectivity so I can replace phone w/ BT headset	09:28
lucent	Undrwater: I would like host usb for the novelty factor of plugging in a lot of scanning equipment, like barcode reader, rfid reader, EEPROM burner, and so on	09:28
Xisdibik	EEPROM burner?	09:28
luke-jr	lucent: sounds like those should have a USB to Bluetooth adapter :P	09:28
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BirdFlew	i'd just like to plug flash drives in for quick and easy file transfer when out and about	09:29
jaem	lucent, even the use-case of pulling files off a flash key is important, but I'll take what I can get	09:29
Undrwater	lucent: getting dive profile immediately would be a cool thing to see...iphone dive buddies would be envious	09:29
Proteous	good luck finding a flash key with a micro USB plug...	09:29
lucent	jaem: ah, that one too is very sad I don't have host usb on N900	09:29
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luke-jr	BirdFlew: MicroSD + USB microSD reader?	09:29
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luke-jr	BirdFlew: or heck, just USB from device to PC :P	09:30
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BirdFlew	luke-jr: yeah that'd work, but i'd prefer to just plug a stick into the n900 and away we go	09:30
lucent	I found the best little USB microSD reader and use it now -> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002HGFKR8	09:30
luke-jr	BirdFlew: Pandora?	09:31
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* BirdFlew googles pandora		09:31
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lucent	taking off the case of my N900 to change out microSD is not the best in my mind, but oh well	09:31
luke-jr	BirdFlew: http://www.open-pandora.org/	09:31
BirdFlew	thanks	09:31
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Undrwater	ah well..night all...	09:32
BirdFlew	i really didn't want to filter through results referencing jewellery or avatar	09:32
Proteous	nite Undrwater	09:32
BirdFlew	night Undrwater	09:32
lucent	BirdFlew: did my link fail?	09:32
lucent	oh, you are talking about pandora	09:33
luke-jr	lucent: WFM, looks neat	09:33
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RST38bis	umghello	09:34
Termana_n810	lcuk - ahh yes liqbase. no offense, i'm was just going off what i saw others say - though the video looks like it works fine	09:34
lcuk	it does for the test case	09:35
lcuk	and would work well as a keyboard modifier (for instance)	09:35
lcuk	but not for generic MT	09:35
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* BirdFlew grumbles about the price of 32GB microsd memory		09:36
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BirdFlew	can't i just glue four 8GB cards together? :-D	09:36
luke-jr	...	09:36
lcuk	sure, why not	09:37
Termana_n810	lcuk - is liqbase in the repos or have you not released it to the general public?	09:37
BirdFlew	hehe	09:37
Proteous	no one is stoping you	09:37
luke-jr	BirdFlew: you can, but it wouldn't fit	09:37
luke-jr	<.<	09:37
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Proteous	yeah, you have to shave them down first	09:37
* luke-jr ponders a chainable SD card		09:37
lcuk	Termana_n810, the original liqbase was released over a year ago, the new framework is just having some tweaks, its a library now, theres some apps already in maemo extras - liqtorch and liqflow	09:37
Proteous	http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=211495194&listingid=46748417	09:37
lcuk	im guessing there will be another update in the v near future tho	09:38
BirdFlew	they'll fit if i cram them in hard enough. nothing could go wrong!	09:38
lcuk	with more of the apps released as the integration stuff is ironed out	09:38
phr	lucent, i like the flat microusb readers that are about a dollar on dealextreme	09:38
lucent	phr: those are useful too :) I find them too small for me though	09:39
roshenia	hi! no news about changelog for n900 new firmware?	09:39
lucent	roshenia: mostly stuff to enable use of Ovi store (store.ovi.com)	09:39
roshenia	wha?	09:40
roshenia	what you mean?	09:40
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lucent	exactly what I said, which part did you have a question about? I don't have a changelog and I searched via Google to find a list of changes	09:41
lucent	looked to me like misc bugfixes and getting ready for Ovi Store	09:41
roshenia	ahh...	09:41
BirdFlew	roshenia: also upgrade to app manager for related reasons	09:42
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roshenia	hehe. no ood updates	09:43
roshenia	=)	09:43
tigert	and fixes to enable a bigger fix update :)	09:43
BirdFlew	and it prepares the N900 for the 1.1 big update	09:43
tigert	yeah	09:43
Termana_n810	pfft that sounds like future assurance marketing to me	09:44
RST38bis	Charms from 'Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer' bracelets were measured at between 82 and 91 percent cadmium	09:44
RST38bis	coooool	09:44
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lucent	what's the procedure to swap an microSD card, must I always power off?	09:44
* BirdFlew would love a way to copy and paste urls between his N900 and laptop		09:44
BirdFlew	lucent: apparently it's hot swappable	09:44
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matmo	How to get rid of maemo menu button/window in a full screen non-hildonised app?	09:45
lucent	BirdFlew: I tried today and the result was no card inserted would be recognized	09:45
Termana_n810	BirdFlew, asciibin.com	09:45
lucent	BirdFlew: I did not see some kind of "refresh" button	09:45
tigert	lucent: the back cover has a switch	09:46
tigert	lucent: just do it :)	09:46
tigert	it unmounts it when you pull the cover	09:46
tigert	(so better not be there with a terminal session)	09:46
lcuk	please cleanly close apps first tho	09:46
tigert	and it remounts when you close the cover	09:46
tigert	yeah	09:46
tigert	exactly	09:46
lucent	tigert: wowza	09:46
lucent	that's really good info thank you	09:46
lucent	I must have gotten really confused because I didn't insert the cover when I was looking	09:47
tigert	it probably is in the manual too :)	09:47
tigert	yeah	09:47
Termana_n810	BirdFlew - obviously not a direct copy and paste between them but its still a pretty good website built by a friend of mine	09:47
lucent	I assumed it wasn't mounting? haha	09:47
tigert	yeah	09:47
tigert	lucent: I had the magnet in the cover fall off in one prototype device	09:47
tigert	took a while to figure out why it wasnt seeing the card inserted..	09:47
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tigert	was an interesting facepalm moment when I realized what had happened :D	09:48
* lucent smiles		09:48
lcuk	thts not facepalm	09:48
tigert	its not?	09:49
lucent	wow I just discovered the kickstand	09:49
lucent	I've been using my N900 for almost a month	09:49
lcuk	nahhh not your fault, you wouldnt routinely go looking for it	09:49
tigert	next you say its a bit too narrow :)	09:49
lcuk	facepalm is taking foot of clutch with car in gear ;)	09:49
tigert	lcuk: well yeah	09:49
* lcuk did that last night		09:49
* tigert has no clutch pedal in the car		09:50
tigert	:)	09:50
lcuk	omg you got a defective one, take it back	09:50
* Proteous is wondering how you shift if you don't take your foot of the clutch		09:50
lcuk	Proteous, when parked	09:50
tigert	:)	09:50
Proteous	ah	09:51
Proteous	makes sense now	09:51
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lucent	I would shift without using the clutch pedal on my first car	09:52
lucent	it wore the synchronizer like crazy, but it worked	09:52
BirdFlew	your transmission would have loved that	09:52
lucent	rev higher and then tug on the shifter knob until things matched up and pop it in	09:53
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Caesium	all the while ignoring the godawful grinding noise? :)	09:53
Proteous	if you are good at matching revs you can do it without killing your syncros	09:53
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lucent	Proteous knows what I'm talking about	09:54
Proteous	the only time it might be a usefull skill is if your clutch dies on the road	09:54
Proteous	then it is invauable	09:54
Proteous	hard to get into first thought :P	09:54
Proteous	so don't stop :P	09:55
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rkc	I have created a simple helloworld app in scratchbox. created debian package for FREMANTLE_ARMEL.. i want to install into n900	09:55
sheepbat	if your clutch dies and you're going through south america?	09:55
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rkc	can any one tell me or suggest me a link?	09:55
Proteous	then you might be on top gear	09:55
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tigert	lucent: yeah, I did that too	09:57
tigert	got pretty good at that also	09:57
tigert	especially fun when switching up	09:57
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lucent	Proteous: my friend had a dead clutch and drove his car around everywhere, parked always on a hill or an inclined driveway	09:57
lucent	"Hey give me a push will ya"	09:57
Proteous	heh	09:57
tigert	rkc: if you just want to test it in device, install rootsh	09:58
tigert	rkc: and open terminal, "root", dpkg -i [packagename].deb	09:58
lucent	like backwards, even. Usually where there's one driveway on an incline, there's a neighbor's driveway opposite the street side to back into, then ... it was just insane, I thionk	09:58
lucent	*think	09:58
tigert	rkc: if you want to use application manager, you need to create an .install file and put it in a repository	09:59
BirdFlew	lucent: well, if it works...	09:59
rkc	tigert: let me try that out	09:59
lucent	BirdFlew: too cheap for a clutch yet he had a girlfriend, never could figure that one out	09:59
Proteous	lol	09:59
rkc	tigert:where chan i get rootsh	09:59
rkc	is it a program to be installed?	10:00
BirdFlew	haha	10:01
tigert	rkc: in extras repository in application manager I think	10:02
tigert	rkc: enable the "maemo" repository	10:02
tigert	and it should be there	10:02
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Termana_n810	SPLIT	10:19
Stskeeps	yes, we all see that	10:20
Stskeeps	:P	10:20
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Stskeeps	it's like dalnet all over again	10:20
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* tigert has those on ignore :)		10:24
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Stskeeps	irssi mostly handles them for me	10:26
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FIQ	oo netsplit	10:28
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tigert	coughstorecough	10:35
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ifreq	what ya coughing	10:36
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ifreq	ah okay bookmark works now	10:36
ifreq	it worked yesterday too on store.ovi.mobi	10:37
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konttori_nokia	tigert, what, you don't like the recomendations?	10:38
ifreq	pff no more gurlz on store	10:39
Stskeeps	they removed the mobiporn?	10:40
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tigert	konttori_nokia: no, just coughing a hint for people to go to the store :)	10:41
* tigert installed angle meter		10:41
* ifreq buys angry birds level pack		10:41
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konttori_nokia	there is level pack available?	10:44
konttori_nokia	wow! I need to go and buy it as well!	10:44
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tigert	its free! :)	10:45
tigert	no wait	10:45
tigert	theres a spirit level app, confused :)	10:45
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tigert	hah	10:49
tigert	that seismograph app is lovely :)	10:49
tigert	it needs data saving though, but great idea	10:50
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Wolfie	huh. omweather updated itself, and reinserted itself into the desktop, even though I removed it previously	10:57
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Wolfie	i mean forecaweather	10:58
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Jaffa	Anyone investigated how Ovi works? All the apps are in "Section: user/hidden"; but anyone tried apt-get install of a paid app?	10:58
Stskeeps	Jaffa: i really hope whoever made ovi store didn't think that would be sufficient	10:59
Stskeeps	:P	10:59
Jaffa	Stskeeps: Indeed.	10:59
pupnik	try it with a free one first	10:59
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Stskeeps	i mean, yes, there's no DRM on n900, but you don't have to make it -too- easy either :P	11:00
adeus	well it depends on how the paying mechanism works	11:00
adeus	many apps have registering systems	11:01
Stskeeps	well it could work with a type of token repo	11:01
Jaffa	Indeed	11:01
DocScrutinizer51	usually paid apps are locked to some serial# on device, like EMEI	11:01
DocScrutinizer51	IMEI	11:01
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer51: I'm talking about the delivery mechanism, not the prevention of someone copying it off your device	11:01
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DocScrutinizer51	Jaffa: so probably you can download but not execute	11:02
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer51: Err, and why wouldn't it execute?	11:02
lcuk	are all the free apps closed source?	11:02
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DocScrutinizer51	it finds it hasn't been 'registered' to your IMEI and stops aka says 'please register'	11:03
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DocScrutinizer51	that's how route66 is doing it at least	11:04
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matmo	Can anyone point me to documentation for dbus interface "com.nokia.hildon_desktop"?	11:04
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer51: And that's my question about the delivery mechanism. You seem to be assuming that a) store.ovi.mobi knows my IMEI and b) can communicate it to a new, custom repo at downloads.maemo.nokia.com	11:04
DocScrutinizer51	nothing lke that	11:05
thesov	I know this isnt a support channel but please i need help, i ran the nokia updater today for the new firmware and my device is bricked i tried following the talk.maemo.org posts to repair it but nothing is working. does anyone know what i can do?	11:05
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Jaffa	I'm not talking about how your app does it, I'm discussing how Ovi does it.	11:05
Wolfie	Jaffa: wasn't this 44.1 update for the store? it requires to know your phone number at least	11:05
Wolfie	the store, i mean. not the update	11:06
Stskeeps	thesov: did you have the battery fully charged before?	11:06
thesov	yes	11:06
matmo	I found http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control but I want details	11:06
thesov	in fact the battery died cuz it took so long	11:06
Stskeeps	thesov: 64-bit windows?	11:06
thesov	it was sitting at the nokia screen forever	11:06
thesov	yes	11:06
thesov	why?	11:07
Stskeeps	right, someone needs to report that OS being troublesome for NSU..	11:07
thesov	but it says its supported windows xp 64-bit	11:07
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Stskeeps	thesov: do you know enough as to boot a ubuntu livecd?	11:07
thesov	yes	11:07
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thesov	my n900 gets to a point where it says nokia on the screen with no backlight and just reboots forever	11:08
Stskeeps	well if it says nokia that's a good thing	11:08
Stskeeps	:P	11:08
Macer	house and wilson crack me up	11:08
Stskeeps	grab flasher-3.5 from http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5	11:08
Stskeeps	under ubuntu livecd	11:09
Stskeeps	ideally grab a 32-bit livecd	11:09
thesov	gonna download it now	11:09
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Stskeeps	are you capable of charging the battery somehow?	11:09
thesov	it charges the battery briefly when it reboots	11:10
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thesov	i dont know how much of a charge it has	11:10
Stskeeps	right, let's see what we can do under ubuntu	11:10
thesov	ok let me swith my irc program to my laptap	11:10
thesov	brb and thank you so much, i really appreciate this, ive been hearing horror stories that once you brick your device nokia ignores you	11:11
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Stskeeps	which is kinda silly cos it's a simple operation for them to resurrect the device	11:12
Stskeeps	:P	11:12
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Stskeeps	but i would complain about NSU under 64-bit not working	11:12
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thesov	lets say for the sake of arguement this doesnt work, does the warentee cover this?	11:13
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Arkenoi	quite strange. some people say they successfully received OTA update via app manager even yesterday and i do not see it yet	11:14
Stskeeps	well you used NSU which is the way things should be done, or through application manager	11:14
tigert	it will work most likely	11:14
tigert	lunch -> &	11:14
Stskeeps	so warranty not covering something that happened with official tools, would surprise me	11:14
thesov	this is so stupid, why would they make a device you can natively access like a hardisk, u know like archos does	11:15
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thesov	can't*	11:15
Stskeeps	in this particular case, you can't access a NAND over USB	11:15
Stskeeps	it is simply a different technology than what USB mass storage expects	11:16
Stskeeps	fwiw, your device isn't bricked, it is just temporarily paralyzed :P	11:16
thesov	really? cuz u know that white light u see when powering it on? i dont even see that.	11:16
Stskeeps	i have abused my n900 and n8x0 with so many experiments, i'm quite sure :P	11:17
Stskeeps	you don't have anyone who has a xpressmusic 5800 or similar btw?	11:17
thesov	i tried using the command line flasher on my xp laptop its not working either.	11:17
leon-	what does it say?	11:18
Stskeeps	xp 32-bit?	11:18
thesov	yes	11:18
thesov	suitable usb device not found	11:18
thesov	tried all the usb ports too	11:18
Stskeeps	OK, did you download the fiasco image?	11:18
thesov	yes	11:18
lcuk	thesov, have you tried having battery out, plug all usb stuff in, get the flasher waiting for device, THEN insert the battery	11:19
thesov	rx-51_2009se etc etc	11:19
thesov	no but i can try that now	11:19
* LinuxCode needs to put mer on his n810		11:19
LinuxCode	maemo doesnt cut it anymore	11:19
Stskeeps	thesov: optionally hold down 'u' key	11:19
lcuk	Stskeeps, thats never been required that way ^	11:20
thesov	ok right now i got flasher -F the US image -f -R	11:20
Stskeeps	lcuk: for XP it might	11:20
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps will be pleased to hear, LinuxCode	11:20
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LinuxCode	is there anywhere where I can obtain a package list with what mer has ?	11:20
LinuxCode	before I flash	11:20
Stskeeps	LinuxCode: packages.ubuntu.com?	11:21
Stskeeps	:P	11:21
LinuxCode	you recompiled all of them ?	11:21
LinuxCode	;-O	11:21
Stskeeps	we piggyback on the ubuntu repo	11:21
thesov	ok it said new hardware foung "nokia rom flashing parent" and still nothing	11:21
LinuxCode	Stskeeps, wow	11:21
* LinuxCode is not an ubuntu fan, but if all the packages are in mer, Id def have to switch		11:21
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LinuxCode	Stskeeps, and everything works in mer, hardware wise ?	11:22
LinuxCode	gps ?	11:22
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LinuxCode	webcam	11:22
LinuxCode	etc..	11:22
Stskeeps	not directly, needs some hacks	11:22
LinuxCode	hmmm	11:22
Stskeeps	webcam is just a v4l device	11:22
Stskeeps	gps is a little more difficult and needs a blob	11:22
LinuxCode	Stskeeps, is there a how to for that >	11:22
LinuxCode	?	11:22
Stskeeps	but we don't have GPS yet	11:23
Stskeeps	but we need people helping out with the system :)	11:23
Stskeeps	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/N810_GPS	11:23
LinuxCode	ta	11:23
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LinuxCode	I hope mer will be up to scratch by the time nokia decides again that they dont care for the n900 anymore	11:24
thesov	ok windows must suck or something	11:24
LinuxCode	like it happened with the n810	11:24
Stskeeps	LinuxCode: only way to deal with it .. fixing it early on	11:25
Stskeeps	which is why i'm toying with mer on n900 atm	11:25
LinuxCode	good on you mate	11:25
thesov	RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin correct rom?	11:26
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Stskeeps	sounds like it	11:27
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thesov	downloading onto my C: now for when i reboot to ubuntu	11:27
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thesov	burning cd	11:30
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thesov	this thing isnt a toy for me i actually use it	11:30
thesov	for work	11:31
Stskeeps	yeah, same here	11:31
thesov	and my other phone is att locked	11:31
Stskeeps	it's a rather expensive toy :)	11:31
thesov	yes, i got it because it runs a nearly full linux install	11:31
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thesov	this is one of those crucial in between stages where pretty soon you will be carrying your computer on you all the time and their will be some "terminal" standard developed so u can interface with a full keyboard screen sound etc. just by dropping your phone onto a passive charging pad	11:32
thesov	i wanna say i was there for that stage.	11:32
Stskeeps	was possible already with n8x0 ;)	11:33
thesov	yeah but u couldnt make phone calls on it :P	11:33
Stskeeps	SIP, Skype, celluar what's the difference :P	11:33
jaem	wazd, that boot vid is gorgeous :D	11:34
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jaem	not so big on the green though	11:34
wazd	jaem: well, thanks :)	11:34
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jaem	also, I think the maemo.org should be either the logo itself, or at least a fancier font	11:34
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jaem	maybe even plain text, but with the stylized ae	11:35
thesov2	ok this my laptop	11:35
jaem	-shrug-	11:35
jaem	anyhow, g'night	11:35
thesov	rebooting into linux	11:35
wazd	jaem: cya	11:35
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thesov2	i hate these animated load screens	11:37
thesov2	what happend to debug info...god i miss slack	11:37
Stskeeps	press esc	11:37
Stskeeps	:P	11:38
lcuk	damn wazd left, he should make a fakey debug info screen to appease you	11:38
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thesov2	lol @ flashing cursor	11:38
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lcuk	Stskeeps !!!	11:38
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thesov2	thanks again for your help sts	11:38
thesov2	how long does it normally take to flash this phone?	11:40
Stskeeps	~2 min	11:40
thesov2	seriously?	11:40
Stskeeps	depending on USB1.1 or USB2.0	11:40
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thesov2	wow ubuntu is smarter than i though, spurios responce on sr0 starting crypto disk. wow it detect my allegedly undetectable disk encryption	11:42
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thesov2	ok im fully booted into ubuntu	11:45
thesov2	sts?	11:46
Stskeeps	grab flasher-3.5 from that website and doubleclick the .deb	11:46
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thesov2	what site?	11:47
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Stskeeps	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.5	11:47
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: what was the pin UI issue?	11:49
Stskeeps	it looking unthemed with nuvo?	11:49
timeless_mbp	yep	11:49
timeless_mbp	any themebuilder theme	11:49
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timeless_mbp	reflect/glass, nuvo, etc	11:49
timeless_mbp	specifically the [x] at the top	11:49
Stskeeps	could you try and edit /usr/share/themes/X/matchbox1/theme.xml and change engine-version to engine_version, or reverse	11:49
Stskeeps	i just noticed same issue under mer so	11:50
timeless_mbp	i'd have to find my phone	11:50
thesov2	ok	11:50
thesov2	it says install complete	11:50
Stskeeps	good	11:50
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timeless_mbp	and charge it, since it's out of power	11:50
Stskeeps	now sudo flasher-3.5 -F fiasco-image-filename -f -R , -- have your N900 plugged into USB but without battery plugged in	11:51
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Stskeeps	and start flasher, and then plug in battery	11:51
thesov2	nothig	11:54
thesov2	nothing*	11:54
Stskeeps	alright	11:54
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Stskeeps	what does flasher say specifically?	11:54
Stskeeps	waiting for device?	11:54
thesov2	yes	11:54
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Stskeeps	ok, now try same procedure but hold in 'u' on device keyboard while you are plugging in battery	11:55
Stskeeps	(take out usb cable and plug it back in)	11:55
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lcuk	before putting in the battery the flasher should be sat saying "no device detected..." when you put the battery in, it should start	11:55
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hrw	morning	11:58
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hrw	can someone pastebin 'dpkg -l' from 44.1 fw device updated with h-a-m?	11:59
* Arkenoi still does not see the update, wtf?		11:59
thesov2	same nothing	12:00
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Stskeeps	thesov2: right, you need to get your battery charged somehow	12:01
Stskeeps	do you know someone who uses similar battery type?	12:01
thesov2	nope	12:01
timeless_mbp	hrw: didn't someone post a content diff url yesterday?	12:01
thesov2	its a battery issue?	12:01
Stskeeps	thesov2: in this case probably yes	12:01
RST38h	EHLO Stskeeps, Arkenoi, lcuk, hrw	12:01
Stskeeps	since you ran down your battery	12:01
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: /matchbox/ or /matchbox2/ ?	12:03
thesov2	what do you suggest?	12:03
Stskeeps	i guess matchbox/	12:03
hrw	timeless_mbp: here?	12:03
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: yeah, konttori's have - and the official ones hav e_	12:04
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: see if that fixes the issue then	12:04
thesov2	any way to charge the device without it trying to boot?	12:04
Stskeeps	thesov2: Nokia 5230, 5800 Xpressmusic, N900 and X6 uses the same battery type	12:04
thesov2	i have no other nokia products	12:05
Stskeeps	well, know anyone who does? ;)	12:05
Stskeeps	but no, it charges in software	12:05
thesov2	no actually	12:05
timeless_mbp	or a nokia store near you :)	12:05
timeless_mbp	charging is dangerous	12:05
timeless_mbp	you can blow up your battery	12:05
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: WIN	12:05
thesov2	lol i should walk into a nokia store and make them gimme a battery?	12:05
timeless_mbp	it requires software to regulate the charging process	12:05
Stskeeps	thesov2: no, ask them if they can charge it basically - it's not an unusual question	12:06
timeless_mbp	thesov2: just ask them to let you swap yours in their demo device and charge it for a bit	12:06
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timeless_mbp	they **** well better let you	12:06
lcuk	thesov2, go in with device and ask them to try charging as stskeeps says	12:06
thesov2	like i said it charges briefly in the boot loop, should i just let it sit in the boot loop all night?	12:06
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: ok, i'm happy happy joy joy about PIN input	12:06
lcuk	and timeless lol	12:06
v2px_	stop hilighting me :S :P	12:06
Stskeeps	thesov2: you can't assume it's actually charging there sadly	12:06
lcuk	v2px_, ?	12:06
thesov2	hmm	12:07
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v2px_	"v2" is on my hl list ;)	12:07
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: btw, have you installed my splash package? :)	12:07
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: no, i use the mer boot videos	12:07
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thesov2	well i can go downstairs to my basement and connect it to my variac with some diodes and charge it manually	12:07
timeless_mbp	ah	12:07
Stskeeps	thesov2: that will probably cause you bodily harm	12:07
timeless_mbp	i'm using the maemo-org flyby	12:07
thesov2	?	12:08
thesov2	why do you say that?	12:08
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Stskeeps	thesov2: the nokia batteries are a bit special	12:08
Stskeeps	:P	12:08
timeless_mbp	thesov2: you really can cause batteries to explode	12:08
lcuk	thesov2, just go ask nokia people :)	12:08
timeless_mbp	and the docs are pretty clear "only use in a proper nokia charger"	12:08
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Stskeeps	thesov2: but really, nokia spends a lot of money on customer service so they should give you that service :P	12:08
thesov2	damnit man im in a crisis here	12:08
thesov2	no they wont, im american they hate us	12:08
timeless_mbp	thesov2: how far away is your local nokia store	12:08
thesov2	downtown chicago	12:09
timeless_mbp	and where are you?	12:09
thesov2	its actually 8 blocks from where i work	12:09
timeless_mbp	sounds like a lunch trip	12:09
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thesov2	sounds like fuckwork	12:09
timeless_mbp	but you better go before the stores close permanently	12:09
Stskeeps	thesov2: well, you can try to let it reboot overnight but that might cause it to think it's malfunctioning	12:09
thesov2	600 dollar phone vs 200 dollar a day off?	12:09
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Stskeeps	(after 50 reboots it thinks it's malfunctioning)	12:10
timeless_mbp	25/hr?	12:10
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thesov2	yes	12:10
thesov2	i dont make much money sadly	12:10
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Stskeeps	thesov2: anyway.. there's no other technical way around it, you have to charge the battery somehow or flashing will fully brick your phone	12:10
timeless_mbp	or work 2 days of overtime and buy a new phone :)	12:10
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timeless_mbp	(assuming overtime = time+a half)	12:11
thesov2	i dont have overtime im salary except for sick days\	12:11
Termana	Of course, you could BUY a new battery, even a third party one from ebay	12:11
Stskeeps	well, or that	12:11
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Stskeeps	a emergency battery is always useful :P	12:11
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thesov2	i think i will goto the nokia store tomorrow morning and ask the clerk for his batter so i can flash it	12:11
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Stskeeps	or just asking to charge the battery	12:12
Stskeeps	probably easier to convince him of	12:12
thesov2	could do that too :)	12:12
thesov2	they all have n900's there	12:12
Stskeeps	and explain the situation with NSU and 64-bit so they annotate it somewhere	12:12
thesov2	will do thanks guys	12:12
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: what's this 64bit stuff?	12:12
thesov2	im gonna play wow for a couple hours and chill	12:12
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: the common trend for NSU breaking people's devices is them doing it on 64-bit windows	12:13
Stskeeps	which stops the flashing mid-way	12:13
timeless_mbp	awesome	12:13
* timeless_mbp ponders		12:13
timeless_mbp	i could try to brick someone's device at work	12:13
timeless_mbp	i have w7 :)	12:13
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timeless_mbp	(w7x64)	12:13
Stskeeps	sounds like the right victim	12:13
lupine_85	I have an N900!	12:13
lupine_85	wewt, etc :)	12:14
timeless_mbp	i need a more specific victim	12:14
timeless_mbp	i'm open to suggestions	12:14
Macer	castle is funny	12:14
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: could you do a diff -ur between a nokia theme and a themebuilder theme	12:14
timeless_mbp	and see if there are any other gotchas floating around?	12:15
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: possibly, but i'm in Mer right now on my n900	12:15
thesov2	man i hope you guys are right and everything goes well tomorrow, if it does im forever in your debt cuz i was panicking and i cant afford another phone	12:15
timeless_mbp	you don't have mount access to Maemo? :)	12:15
Stskeeps	thesov2: either way it should be under warranty	12:16
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: hmm :P	12:16
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thesov2	switch8ing back to desktop	12:16
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MaemohammadAG	http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/14/nokia-messaging-for-social-networks-hits-beta-brings-twitter-a/ :/	12:18
lupine_85	ooh, maemo have jobs that I could do if I were to move to FI :p	12:18
lupine_85	ahem	12:18
thesov	so...now im gonna uninstall software updater and curse the life of the idiot who progged it	12:18
timeless_mbp	MaemohammadAG: that UI looks somewhat S60r5ish	12:19
MaemohammadAG	it is	12:19
MaemohammadAG	i'm just posting it to show how engadget hate maemo	12:19
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MaemohammadAG	read the article timeless_mbp	12:19
timeless_mbp	who reads articles?	12:20
timeless_mbp	i'm a picture guy :)	12:20
lupine_85	anyone know which version of Debian Maemo is built off? /etc/debian_version says testing/unstable, which isn't too helpful ;)	12:20
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MaemohammadAG	lol timeless_mbp	12:21
timeless_mbp	lupine_85: Maemo is a distro	12:21
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timeless_mbp	like Ubuntu	12:21
timeless_mbp	your question is like asking "Which version of Debian is Ubuntu built off"	12:21
lupine_85	timeless_mbp: indeed	12:21
timeless_mbp	did you have a certain version of Maemo/Ubuntu in mind?	12:21
lupine_85	and the answer is always 'the version of testing that was around when they branched'	12:21
lupine_85	or is it unstable? I forget	12:22
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lupine_85	I'm wondering if it's etch-vintage, or lenny vintage, or...?	12:22
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lupine_85	glibc 2.5, that should help	12:22
* lupine_85 hunts		12:22
timeless_mbp	which version of Maemo?	12:22
lupine_85	5 - whatever's on the N900	12:22
timeless_mbp	Maemo 1, Maemo 2, Maemo 3, Maemo 4, Maemo 5, Maemo 6?	12:22
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/dif	12:23
lupine_85	5	12:23
lupine_85	looks like it's based on lenny before lenny became stable	12:23
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: -wb ;-)	12:23
lupine_85	(stable lenny being libc6 2.7, etch being 2.3)	12:23
* xorAxAx is happy, his n900 will ship today		12:23
xorAxAx	branded, though	12:23
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: reload	12:24
timeless_mbp	text[NORMAL] = @ReversedTextColor	12:24
timeless_mbp	-text[INSENSITIVE] = @ReversedDisabledTextColor	12:24
timeless_mbp	that seems bad	12:24
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: either way, the non-thememaker way of doing themes using debian packages has been released	12:24
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timeless_mbp	-color["ReversedDisabledTextColor"] = @DisabledTextColor	12:24
timeless_mbp	-style "fremantle-progressnote"	12:25
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timeless_mbp	diff -ruNwb alpha/theme.conf marina/theme.conf	12:26
timeless_mbp	is odd	12:26
tigert	http://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-themes/maemo-5-theme-for-nokia/	12:26
tigert	wow :)	12:26
timeless_mbp	is that a bug fix on top of a bug?	12:26
tigert	Maemo5 theme for Symbian =)	12:26
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lardman	morning	12:26
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lardman	lcuk: you about oh VB guru?	12:26
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timeless_mbp	tigert: for people mourning the fact that they paid way too much for an inferior product	12:26
xorAxAx	09:39:01 [@foebud:1] RT @johl: Vote for Barbie to become a computer engineer! http://www.barbie.com/vote/	12:26
timeless_mbp	it's a consolation	12:26
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: Math is hard, let's go shopping.	12:27
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: not if barbie was a successful role model :)	12:27
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nomis	lardman: you about, oh DSP guru? ;)	12:28
nomis	lardman: do you have an idea about what it would take to slow down music (lets say about 15%) without changing pitch?	12:28
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timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: now you have to try http://icanbe.barbie.com/dentist.html with your n900	12:30
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lcuk	lardman, pong	12:31
lardman	lcuk: reading binary files in vb?	12:31
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: nah, not my thing :)	12:31
lcuk	yes entirely possible	12:31
lardman	and reading values of a given size into variables?	12:31
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lardman	i.e. I'd like to read some double data, etc.	12:32
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lcuk	slightly different	12:32
Corsac	timeless_mbp: ouch.	12:32
lcuk	you would have to make a UDT and read records of those	12:33
timeless_mbp	Corsac: did it kill your n900?	12:33
lardman	lcuk: hmm	12:33
lcuk	ie: type lardmans_data a as double end type	12:33
lardman	lcuk: yeah I get that	12:33
lardman	the problem is I'm reading a header, then either double or byte data	12:34
thesov	can you make X applications with python?	12:34
lardman	so in C it would be a nice simple fread	12:34
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DocScrutinizer51	nomis: depends on source format. for mp3 e.g. it,s really easy	12:34
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Corsac	timeless_mbp: I didn't try on it	12:34
Corsac	poor beast	12:34
Corsac	thesov: sure	12:35
DocScrutinizer51	nomis: as frequency aka pitch isn't correlated with time domain in mp3	12:35
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lcuk	mmm lardman you can do memcpy stuff, always read as bytes and then copy into a typed array?	12:35
lardman	using a C fn?	12:36
lardman	Can memcpy be used in VB?	12:36
lcuk	windows api provides it afaik	12:36
lcuk	#but you need a proto	12:36
lardman	yeah	12:36
lardman	ok thanks	12:36
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nomis	DocScrutinizer51: oh wow.	12:36
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nomis	DocScrutinizer51: do you have any references where I could read about decoding mp3 differently?	12:37
DocScrutinizer51	nope sorry	12:37
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lcuk	np	12:37
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Orkut	hello all	12:37
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Orkut	I was wondering if you guys have any clue on installing the sdk on slackware	12:38
DocScrutinizer51	but I know of a few mp3 player (though I canMt remember the name) which offer that feature to adjust playback speed	12:38
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timeless_mbp	Corsac: someone really should	12:38
timeless_mbp	maybe i'll get the flash team @work to do it	12:38
DocScrutinizer51	nomis: also in sox you have an implementation to adjust pitch and speed independantly on arbitrary audio formats	12:39
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ccooke	Morning, all	12:39
nomis	DocScrutinizer51: yeah, I have used that to slow down some orchestral music so I have a chance of keeping up when playing together with it.	12:39
juhjokel	DocScrutinizer51: At least PS3 allows that, iirc	12:39
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nomis	DocScrutinizer51: I'd like to have an application that I can use as practicing aid: add markers inside a mp3 file to easily skip back to a defined position, dynamically adjust the speed of the playback etc.	12:40
hrw	http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/18/what-will-next-firmware-release-for-n900-bringsk/#comment-20820 - nice comment I got about firmware updates	12:40
juhjokel	DocScrutinizer51: And regarding the practical implementation, I doubt if all players handle mp3 decoding differently with different pitch, as most of them support other audio formats aswell	12:41
juhjokel	And well, don't know if that feature is mp3-specific	12:42
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nomis	possibly there is a gst-plugin for that, probably I am not the first one thinking about it... :)	12:42
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DocScrutinizer51	juhjokel: I'm just saying you need a signal representation in the frequency domain vs time, rather than a waveform representation, to do that magic most easily.	12:44
thesov	i wanted to make a quick desktop widget that would pull an image from the web every 10 mins	12:44
thesov	i didnt know if it was possible in python im thinking of learning it	12:44
DocScrutinizer51	nomis: I'd assume that you can find such plugin. Or use sox	12:45
wazd	konttori: heya	12:45
wazd	konttori: I think I've found a place for OVI widget skin :)	12:46
lardman	lcuk: how very odd that I can read a type correctly, but not arbitrary variabels	12:46
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lardman	~curse VB for being crap	12:47
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, VB for being crap !	12:47
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lcuk	yeah its geared around records of info	12:47
lardman	yep	12:47
lardman	so basically I can't switch the type I'm reading part way through I guess?	12:48
lardman	i.e. I'll have to read the header, close the file, open fseek then read the image data, etc	12:48
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DocScrutinizer51	lardman: ouch. there has to be better ways	12:49
Orkut	any ideas on how to install the SDK on a slackware linux?	12:49
lardman	DocScrutinizer51: not using VB? ;)	12:49
lcuk	lardman, mmm if you havent prespecified the record size i nthe open statement, something in back of mind is telling me you can	12:50
DocScrutinizer51	lardman: that crap from Redmond?.actually I was forced to create a whole commercial project with VB(A)	12:50
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lardman	I don't have records though, I have a header consisting of various things, ints, booleans, doubles, etc., then data either byte or double, then more footer info	12:51
jaska	visual basic for aberrations	12:51
DocScrutinizer51	lardman: I know it,s crap	12:51
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Corsac	hmhm, are qr code somewhat readable on n900?	12:51
mece	Can I expect problems with updates when I have my apt cache moved to MyDocs?	12:52
lardman	DocScrutinizer51: just far easier to write a quick app to display data allowing drag&drop & clipboard copying using VB, until I stumbled into the issues of wanting to know what's in the header	12:52
lardman	Corsac: yes	12:52
lardman	mbarcode	12:52
Corsac	ok	12:52
Corsac	thanks	12:52
DocScrutinizer51	lardman: read in generic bytes from file, then do a typecast and assign parts of the buffer to a structure of your liking	12:54
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DocScrutinizer51	VB is nasty but you still can do almost everythng you're used to do in other decent prog lang	12:55
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Corsac	hmhm, is there an open bug about being able to quick jump on every list?	12:55
Orkut	ok, I'll try once more: since I'm being unable to install the sdk ... is there anyone willing to compile a very stupid little program for me in the meanwhile?	12:56
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Zero_Dogg	Hi. Has the deblet project died? I'm unable to find any website related to it anymore.	12:58
Stskeeps	yes, it's dead and Mer is the successor	12:59
Stskeeps	been dead for over a year :P	12:59
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Zero_Dogg	right, sort of figured. So can Mer run alternate desktops? (ie. xfce). Only reason I haven't tried mer lately is that I've been told that an upgrade usually requires a reflash, rather than using apt	13:00
Stskeeps	yes it can but it requires tinkering	13:00
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FIQ	Tomorrow, I can finally buy a N900	13:03
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SpeedEvil	;)	13:03
SpeedEvil	Get an iphone, it's got more apps!	13:04
SpeedEvil	And is capacitittatitive!	13:04
FIQ	no thanks, lol. :p	13:04
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xorAxAx	get an android phone, it has fancy google navigation and not sucky ovi maps!	13:04
mece	LOL	13:04
SpeedEvil	Seriously though - I haven't regretted my descision to get one.	13:04
FIQ	meh	13:04
xorAxAx	i want your n900!	13:04
lardman	Corsac: yes there is a bug for that	13:05
mece	SpeedEvil, getting what?	13:05
lardman	Corsac: and what are you doing with QR codes?	13:05
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* FIQ have a SE P1i atm and haven't any problems with screen being resistive. :) (and yeah, i pwn at spelling)		13:05
lardman	xorAxAx: you have to find one with Android 2.x tho	13:05
xorAxAx	lardman: doesnt it require at least 1.6?	13:05
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SpeedEvil	Though my happiness is in a somewhat undetermined state over USB host until I finish reading kernel driver for USB and datasheet for USB phy, patching the kernel and seeing if it works.	13:05
xorAxAx	lardman: but indeed, you are somehow locked into the shipped version	13:06
lardman	xorAxAx: doesn't seem to work on my wife's phone	13:06
* Jaffa got fed up with waiting for the MyMenu author to integrate his "identify things from package's section" code; so has started on a new tool; Catorise: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30863507@N02/4268021329/ <---- my app menu		13:06
SpeedEvil	Multitouch would be handy sometimes. But - losing stylus would be bad.	13:06
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xorAxAx	umm, why do you need a tool at all, jaffa	13:06
mece	Jaffa, nice!	13:07
xorAxAx	you can query the section from the menu files, ok, then some tool would need to patch the desktop files to include the package section	13:07
mece	Jaffa, is it already working?	13:07
wazd	Jaffa: more icon looks odd :)	13:07
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: unsure - what's that?	13:07
Jaffa	wazd: Yeah, it's supposed to be "other" from the current theme, but there's a bug	13:07
Orkut	even thou it seems like I'm typing with a transparent ink... i'd say that a REALTIME kernel would be great!	13:08
mece	Jaffa, right I was just about to say it should be "other" :)	13:08
Jaffa	xorAxAx: Cos I want to fix https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3822	13:08
povbot`	Bug 3822: Application menu should have enough top-level folders to match package sections	13:08
* FIQ lost the stylus to his current phone months ago		13:08
Jaffa	xorAxAx: That's what MyMenu tries to do by maintaining a separate list	13:09
xorAxAx	Jaffa: yeah, i know. good luck :)	13:09
Jaffa	xorAxAx: Which is braindead architecturally ;-)	13:09
wazd	nice icons btw, have you made it?	13:09
Jaffa	wazd: It uses the HAM icons for whatever the user-selected theme is, if any, or uses the icons from the default theme if the current theme doesn't provide any	13:10
wazd	Jaffa: HAM now has icons? cool :)	13:10
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: icon for more - http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/please-sir-I-want-some-moar-415x500.jpg	13:10
Jaffa	wazd: http://blogs.igalia.com/vjaquez/2009/12/14/shinning-new-ham/	13:11
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: ping	13:11
timeless_mbp	pong	13:12
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Jaffa	timeless_mbp: What's the naming strategy for message keys for HAM sections?	13:12
timeless_mbp	?	13:12
timeless_mbp	you mean what maps where	13:13
timeless_mbp	or what are the localization bits?	13:13
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: e.g. the text under the icons. Yeah, I want to reuse them	13:13
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timeless_mbp	Jaffa: do you have my locale installed?	13:13
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Yes	13:13
timeless_mbp	the 'Advanced Options' thing in its control panel will let you look them up	13:13
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: cool	13:13
timeless_mbp	select it, pick en_US.1 and the next thing (which is tiny/fast)	13:13
timeless_mbp	then pick browser, pick en_US.1	13:14
timeless_mbp	then select the right application manager thing	13:14
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Oh, damn. I've not got it installed atm and your repo is down	13:14
timeless_mbp	my repo is down?!	13:14
* wazd has found a good recipe to create unique theme for maemo5		13:14
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wazd	open dark template, move hue a bit, save it, voi la :D	13:15
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timeless_mbp	'unique'?	13:15
* timeless_mbp finds that questionable		13:15
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: afaict, my repo is up	13:15
wazd	well, there are like 10 themes around including legendary godlike Pizerro that in fact just a dark theme with different hue value	13:16
tigert	wazd: :)	13:16
wazd	and wallpaper	13:16
tigert	wazd: yeah	13:16
tigert	but that pizerro was "unfinished"	13:16
tigert	it was largely based on the sdk theme still	13:16
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: I got errors from HAM. Let me recheck	13:16
wazd	I'd rather call such things "unstarted" :D	13:16
tigert	the "Melody/Harmony" variant pair is the development theme iirc	13:17
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wazd	I wonder if there is a possibility to change theme hue on the go	13:17
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: "Unable to connect to timless.justdave.net http: [IP] 92.123.153.57 80]	13:17
wazd	an app or something	13:17
tigert	you could write a simple tool to recolor the bitmaps	13:17
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: hrm	13:17
wazd	I can't :D	13:17
wazd	but it would be cool	13:18
timeless_mbp	[timeless@konigsberg nss]$ ping timeless.justdave.net	13:18
timeless_mbp	PING timeless.justdave.net (208.113.182.132) 56(84) bytes of data.	13:18
tigert	wazd: once saw a hack for 770 by someone that did that	13:18
timeless_mbp	timless != timeless	13:18
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DocScrutinizer51	timeless_mbp: I'd like to remove the 'tanna_fi' buggy names from my N810 diablo	13:18
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer51: sorry, which packages are you using right now?	13:19
timeless_mbp	my diablo enus1 or my fremantle enus1?	13:19
Corsac	lardman: I was just testing it	13:19
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timeless_mbp	if you installed the fremantle ones, there should be a control panel which lets you fix it by selecting Default	13:19
DocScrutinizer51	err. no idea. How ould I tell? I never installed anything out of the main repo way	13:19
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer51: did you install something from me?	13:20
DocScrutinizer51	nope	13:20
timeless_mbp	so what gave 'tanna_fi' ?	13:20
DocScrutinizer51	not deliberately	13:20
* timeless_mbp is confused		13:20
DocScrutinizer51	no idea	13:20
timeless_mbp	well, let's start w/ simple stuff:	13:21
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timeless_mbp	dpkg -l 'en1'	13:21
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timeless_mbp	if you have any enus1/engb1's, then we can work from there	13:21
timeless_mbp	if not, you'll have to at least tell me which app(s) are unhappy and probably offer at least one screenshot	13:21
DocScrutinizer51	k, moment please	13:21
timeless_mbp	and we can work from there	13:21
* timeless_mbp needs to get unsick		13:21
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FIQ	hm, the Xchat installation.. what repository is it in	13:22
FIQ	+?	13:22
SpeedEvil	extras-devel I think	13:22
FIQ	ah,k	13:23
SpeedEvil	,aybe extras	13:23
FIQ	guess i have to deal with extras-devel's server problems before getting it i guess	13:23
Gadgetoid_mbp	Anyone have a giffgaff SIM and want to pretend to have referred me?	13:23
mece	testing at least.	13:23
mece	xchat	13:23
FIQ	RST38h: ping	13:24
FIQ	he knows! ;o	13:24
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Ho hum, evidently not!	13:26
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DocScrutinizer-8	timeless_mbp: no enus/engb. No unhappy apps. Just the appswitcher shows a home icon with 'tanna_fi_home \n tanna_fi_home_thumb'	13:31
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Orkut	ok, I'll try once more: since I'm being unable to install the sdk ... is there anyone willing to compile a very stupid little program for me in the meanwhile?	13:31
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timeless_mbp	and this is the nokia n8x0 ?	13:31
timeless_mbp	what locale are you using?	13:31
timeless_mbp	(this is diablo and not mer-diablo)	13:32
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RST38h	Oh, finally, icons in HAM!	13:33
* wazd is going to write photoshop script for theme dithering to save the world		13:33
w00t	hm..	13:33
wazd	RST38h: pretty good icons in fact :)	13:33
Arkenoi	where is my update?	13:33
w00t	is there a way to remotely reboot n900 from ssh?	13:33
w00t	shutdown doesn't seem to do it	13:34
wazd	Arkenoi: Not for sale, not for update :D	13:34
SpeedEvil	w00t: reboot IIRC	13:34
w00t	SpeedEvil: ta	13:34
SpeedEvil	np	13:34
DocScrutinizer-8	timeless_mbp: this is N810 diablo 5.2008.43-7. locale set to English (US) now but was set to german with no change	13:34
RST38h	wazd: Yea, looks decent	13:34
timeless_mbp	w00t: you probably need to be 'su'	13:35
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Any thoughts on putting zenity in extras?	13:35
RST38h	there is a funny HAM-related bug by the way, not in HAM but apparently in the kernel	13:35
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w00t	timeless_mbp: I am	13:35
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: i definitely want it	13:35
timeless_mbp	_But_	13:35
RST38h	When you minimize HAM, it stops downloading/installing stuff =)	13:35
timeless_mbp	it needs to be the zenity from my repo	13:35
timeless_mbp	the zenity from upstream doesn't have the window parent stuff	13:35
timeless_mbp	so if you put it in extras w/o that, you break my control panel integration	13:36
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w00t	am I safe to chsh user to bash? busybox really irritates the heck out of me	13:37
slonopotamus	w00t, at least it was safe in diablo :)	13:37
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* Arkenoi wants qt keyboard input to be fixed. even more than ussd, proper bt headset disconnect handling, etc etc		13:37
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Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Let me put it another way, are you going to put your zenity in extras? ;-)	13:37
* w00t will just do it and live with the consequences :-)		13:37
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DocScrutinizer-8	w00t: nooo! will result in you reflashing	13:42
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DocScrutinizer-8	timeless_mbp: any further comments on tanna_fi?	13:43
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timeless_mbp	Jaffa: someone else has to do it if they want it sooner	13:44
timeless_mbp	it's probably best if you try to pull it in	13:44
timeless_mbp	i think the source package is in my repo	13:44
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: /me nods. Is ther... ah, cool	13:44
timeless_mbp	if it isn't, poke me	13:44
timeless_mbp	but i'm not doing well	13:44
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: So, should just be a case of doing "apt-get source" and uploading it ;-)	13:44
tigert	wow	13:44
tigert	the speedmeter app has a HUD mirror mode =)	13:44
timeless_mbp	lol	13:45
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* w00t glares at DocScrutinizer-8		13:45
w00t	:p	13:45
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Jaffa	Question to the floor: presumably an "All" section in the applications menu is just as useful as it is in HAM when trying to find something	13:45
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DocScrutinizer-8	w00t: no joke. changing +in/sh breaks boot	13:46
DocScrutinizer-8	/bin/sh even	13:46
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w00t	I'm not changing /bin/sh, I'm using chsh	13:46
nomis	DocScrutinizer-8: well, "chsh" is not changing /bin/sh	13:46
w00t	subtle but very important difference	13:47
* timeless_mbp curses		13:47
w00t	timeless_mbp: sup?	13:47
timeless_mbp	maintaining a list of not fixed things is a royal pain	13:47
DocScrutinizer-8	check PBeck on tmo of yesterday	13:47
DocScrutinizer-8	same story	13:47
w00t	DocScrutinizer-8: and well, it already rebooted just fine so	13:47
* lupine_85 wonders how well maemo copes with 'ordinary' X applications		13:48
DocScrutinizer-8	hmm, strange	13:48
Muhvi--	have you tried N900s front camera	13:48
mgedmin	lupine_85, poorly	13:48
w00t	DocScrutinizer-8: again, chsh is not changing /bin/sh, so if that's what he/she did and it broke, that's not what I did anyway :-)	13:48
range	lupine_85: ssh -X into my machine at home and then running xclock gives me a maximized xclock.	13:48
Muhvi--	i have really shitty image quality	13:48
lupine_85	range: fun :)	13:48
range	So yes, it works, but not quite as expected :)	13:48
mgedmin	or, rather, ordinary X apps assume things from the window manager that aren't guaranteed by the ICCCM spec but are provided by 99.9% of window managers out there, resulting in focus issues when those apps run on fremantle	13:49
w00t	Muhvi--: everyone does, I believe there's a few topics with theories/discussion/the reason on tmo	13:49
Muhvi--	OK, thanks	13:49
lupine_85	the huuuge dpi tends to break stuff anyway IME	13:49
Muhvi--	i thought its broken	13:49
lupine_85	(on another phone with a 297dpi)	13:49
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flux	I suppose someone could have a maemoized nested X-server for n900 for those uses?	13:51
flux	similar to those distributions running in chroot environments I think	13:51
pupnik	ty for the info mgedmin	13:51
flux	of course, "it's not the same" :)	13:51
pupnik	ty for the info mgedmin	13:51
pupnik	oop	13:51
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tigert	it doesnt really make sense to do "desktop" ui on tablet screen	13:52
tigert	its just way too small	13:52
LuciusMare	hi,why cant i use headphones and fm transmitter at once?	13:52
tigert	the easydebian can run gimp	13:52
tigert	and it wouldnt likely even be that slow	13:52
tigert	but the ui is just too small	13:52
DocScrutinizer-8	w00t: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=40111	13:52
tigert	no way you can draw anything sensibly when pixels are 0.1 mm wide	13:53
mgedmin	LuciusMare, rumour is the headphones would act as an antenna and broadcast the FM signal farther than is legally allowed in many countries	13:53
LuciusMare	so its purely software?	13:53
Zeddy	omg	13:53
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Zeddy	ovi store is cool	13:53
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* timeless_mbp takes a minute to kick andre__		13:56
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tekojo	timeless no kicking the bugmaster!	13:57
timeless_mbp	tekojo: sorry, he deserved it	13:57
timeless_mbp	changing the resolution of an invalid bug is not proper	13:58
tekojo	just gently stroke his hair and tell him to be nice again	13:58
timeless_mbp	especially when the reporter actually went off and filed the bug again	13:58
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timeless_mbp	the second copy of the bug was slightly better than the first copy	13:58
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timeless_mbp	although, still horrible	13:58
mrmg	hi guys	13:58
andre__	timeless_mbp, you having problems with users being vague is not my problem	13:58
andre__	timeless_mbp, and keep my aliases otherwise I kick you.	13:58
timeless_mbp	andre__: he already filed it again	13:58
mrmg	downloading these maemo images are taking ages. :(	13:58
mrmg	Works internet sucks	13:59
andre__	timeless_mbp, then I block him. as easy as that :)	13:59
timeless_mbp	mrmg: don't download images	13:59
mrmg	!?	13:59
timeless_mbp	why in the world would you download an image	13:59
mrmg	I'm in Windows 7	13:59
timeless_mbp	uh huh	13:59
mrmg	So need to run it through a VM	13:59
timeless_mbp	what 'image' are you downloading?	13:59
mrmg	Or am I confuzzled?	13:59
timeless_mbp	dunno, depends what the heck you're trying to do	14:00
mrmg	Maemo_PreFinal_2_Ubuntu....	14:00
timeless_mbp	if you're trying to download a VMWare or SDK image, then that's ok	14:00
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timeless_mbp	ah	14:00
timeless_mbp	yeah, sorry	14:00
mrmg	hehe	14:00
mgedmin	PreFinal sounds a bit strange	14:00
mrmg	:)	14:00
mrmg	For Eclipse.	14:00
timeless_mbp	9 times out of 10 people are foolishly downloading FIASCOs	14:00
mrmg	Couldn't find a newer one. PreFinal 2 I think	14:00
timeless_mbp	which is just a fiasco.	14:00
mgedmin	speaking of firmware images, is the 44-1 update available as a SSU?	14:00
VDVsx	andre__, the bug trolls arrived ? :D	14:00
timeless_mbp	you happened to be the exception, but it's safer to start with "you're probably doing the wrong thing"	14:00
mgedmin	I ask because I can't see it in my app manager	14:00
mrmg	mgedmin: yep	14:01
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: patience.	14:01
mrmg	Mine showed up yesterday	14:01
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timeless_mbp	mgedmin: there's a staggered deployment	14:01
mrmg	timeless_mbp: No worries. ;-)	14:01
timeless_mbp	just to encourage people to complain and be confused about availability	14:01
Jaffa	Does anyone know of a way of restarting Hildon desktop nicely (without a reboot)? (Stskeeps?)	14:01
mrmg	I wanna get developing stuff. But it's my first time (developing) on linux/maemo	14:01
mrmg	Done some android and iphone stuff	14:01
RST38h	Average Budget For Major, Multi-platform Games Is $18-28 Million	14:01
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: killall hildon-desktop	14:01
timeless_mbp	killall hildon-home	14:01
timeless_mbp	killall hildon-status-menu	14:01
timeless_mbp	all of those are safe :)	14:01
timeless_mbp	well, ok, not entirely safe	14:02
timeless_mbp	if you're really unlucky the Display Driver throws a tantrum	14:02
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Without triggeting the watchdog?	14:02
DocScrutinizer-8	timeless_mbp: I see you're quite busy and feel sick. Let's postpone the tanna_fi issue (it's not actually a showstopper anyway ;-) May I ping you later on that topic again?	14:02
timeless_mbp	but it does that anyway	14:02
mgedmin	actually, if you kill hildon-desktop a certain number of times, won't dsme decide to reboot?	14:02
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: without	14:02
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: in a row w/in a certain time period	14:02
timeless_mbp	at least, i hope it's sane and doesn't think uptime of 10,000 days entitles you to the same kill limit as uptime of 2mins	14:02
wazd	RST38h: that's with commercial engine I think	14:02
wazd	RST38h: Like UE3	14:03
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer-8: yeah, but not for a while	14:03
* timeless_mbp complains about stomach being disagreeable		14:03
RST38h	wazd: tops at $50-60mil	14:03
jhp	Who can tell me if those document viewers that you can buy are any good?	14:03
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VDVsx	Q: if I buy something in Ovi store and than reflash my device, I've to buy it again ?	14:03
timeless_mbp	jhp: i'm biased	14:03
DocScrutinizer-8	timeless_mbp: no problem. Feel free to answer 'not yet' when I ping you next time	14:03
timeless_mbp	but they work well enough to handle nokia internal documents	14:03
VDVsx	jhe, there's a trial I think	14:03
Jaffa	VDVsx: At the moment there is only piece of paid content which comes as a package (AFAICT) which is angrybirds-levelpack1	14:04
RST38h	wazd: and you weanted to develop and sell for $1.99 ;)	14:04
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timeless_mbp	jhp: they aren't localized	14:04
timeless_mbp	and their ui is moderately lame	14:04
jhp	VDVsx: Yes, I found that.	14:04
timeless_mbp	but functionally which is what matters, they work	14:04
wazd	RST38h: well :D	14:04
jhp	It's only 10 dollar I think, so not really that expencive.	14:04
wazd	RST38h: I really don't think that some indie games have such huge budgets	14:04
timeless_mbp	(my bias is that nokia gave me a license, and i tried to send them feedback)	14:04
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timeless_mbp	jhp: roughly, if your office deals in ms docs (as Nokia does for me) and you expect to encounter them, it's probably worth the purchase	14:05
VDVsx	Jaffa, and do you know if I need to buy it again if I reflash or can just download it ? :)	14:05
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jhp	ok.	14:05
timeless_mbp	if you're only expecting to encounter docs on the web, i'd try google docs instead	14:05
jhp	clear.	14:05
RST38h	wazd: Well I can write a game in 1 day's time	14:05
RST38h	wazd: But it will suck :)	14:06
jhp	And can I use it to show powerpoint presentations through a beamer?	14:06
timeless_mbp	'beamer'?	14:06
zaheer_	projector	14:06
zaheer_	people have weird names for them	14:06
timeless_mbp	the n900's 3.5mm jack can be used for composite out	14:06
jhp	ok	14:07
zaheer_	if someone told me aurally beamer, i'd assume he meant a bmw vehicle	14:07
wazd	RST38h: 50-60 are the budgets for Halo grade games, with huge advertising	14:07
timeless_mbp	i used mine w/ a projector @w3 tpac in Santa Clara, CA, US in november	14:07
Jaffa	VDVsx: I did an apt-get install angrybirds-levelpack1 without problem; although never having played Angry Birds I dunno how to check whether or nt I've got it	14:07
timeless_mbp	zaheer_++	14:07
timeless_mbp	jhp: there shouldn't be any reason the slide show wouldn't work	14:07
timeless_mbp	but it won't really know that your display is odd	14:07
zaheer_	Jaffa, without paying?	14:07
VDVsx	Jaffa, lol	14:07
* VDVsx already completed all the free levels		14:08
wazd	RST38h: don't think that IL-2 shtuÿmovik had 20+ budget when it was done	14:08
* zaheer_ just paid for the level pack because this morning i completed the free ones		14:08
timeless_mbp	VDVsx: what is this?	14:08
zaheer_	angry birds	14:08
timeless_mbp	or where is this?	14:08
wazd	RST38h: and World of Goo too :)	14:08
timeless_mbp	are you guys actually using store. ?	14:08
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zaheer_	timeless_mbp, yah angry birds is endless fun	14:08
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VDVsx	timeless_mbp, yes, just for angry birds	14:08
timeless_mbp	does it require a nokia/ovi.com account?	14:09
zaheer_	yes	14:09
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* timeless_mbp grumbles		14:09
Jaffa	VDVsx: Then I'd be very interested to know what happens when you apt-get ;-)	14:09
RST38h	wazd: That was before =)	14:09
DocScrutinizer-8	timeless_mbp: I'm planning to use it to sell crap for gold ;-P	14:09
VDVsx	timeless_mbp, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNNzRyd1xz0	14:09
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wazd	RST38h: well, WoG is a pretty fresh game	14:09
xorAxAx	DocScrutinizer-8: "Maemo 6"! :)	14:09
DocScrutinizer-8	lol	14:10
Nitial	is WoG somewhere already?	14:10
xorAxAx	spelled mäemo 6 to avoid lawyers	14:10
timeless_mbp	oh	14:10
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timeless_mbp	i played a flash game like this	14:10
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timeless_mbp	it was a castle game	14:10
wazd	RST38h: idea is everything, budget can just minimize faults if you're not a pro :)	14:10
timeless_mbp	it worked nicely on my n900	14:11
RST38h	wazd: But where do I shoot monsters in 3D?	14:11
wazd	RST38h: current game scene is out of ideas :)	14:11
RST38h	3D monsters take money!	14:11
DocScrutinizer-8	that's why they're called monsters	14:11
DocScrutinizer-8	3USD monsters	14:12
wazd	RST38h: Btw, do you know bout TeeWars? :)	14:12
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: doesn't look like the zenity sources are up there	14:12
* timeless_mbp wonders where they are		14:12
wazd	RST38h: http://www.teeworlds.com/	14:12
thesov	im very upset my phone is just a lump right now	14:12
w00t	timeless_mbp: does the file of typed browser URLs get trimmed?	14:13
timeless_mbp	?	14:13
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DocScrutinizer-8	friggin angry birds rebooted my device on quit. Also I don't think it's so exceptionally great	14:13
wazd	RST38h: I think it can be ported to the n900	14:13
timeless_mbp	the ui spec demanded the urlbar have a character field limit	14:13
w00t	timeless_mbp: .browser_typed_urls	14:13
timeless_mbp	if that's what you mean	14:13
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Ho hum	14:13
timeless_mbp	w00t: oh	14:13
timeless_mbp	um, probably not ;-)	14:13
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w00t	(character field limit? wtf.)	14:13
timeless_mbp	w00t: ui specifiers have too much time on their hands	14:14
timeless_mbp	so they invent stupid work	14:14
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w00t	:-)	14:14
w00t	I suppose they have to justify their existance somehow	14:14
DocScrutinizer-8	bbl	14:15
wazd	RST38h: http://i080.radikal.ru/1001/16/0eafda820117.png	14:16
Stskeeps	RST38h: hmm, do you use omapfb directly in some of your emus?	14:17
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timeless_mbp	Jaffa: do you have a build env?	14:19
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: Not with me at the moment	14:20
* timeless_mbp wonders why the zenity sources are ~16mb		14:20
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: well, if i put up the zenity sources i think i used	14:20
timeless_mbp	could you eventually build them, confirm they interop w/ the packages i have, and then push them through the builders?	14:21
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: timeless.justdave.net/maemo/zenity-src.tgz (eta:3min)	14:22
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Jaffa	timeless_mbp: I'll try to. No promises.	14:23
timeless_mbp	i'm not specifically in a hurry :)	14:23
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timeless_mbp	file's up	14:24
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: ta	14:24
mrmg	First thing I'm going to make is widget. Is that a good place to start?	14:24
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xorAxAx	mrmg: a widget is the most proprietary form of application but there are instructions for it on the wiki	14:25
timeless_mbp	mrmg: i'd personally start w/ an application	14:25
timeless_mbp	they're the 'simplest'	14:25
Corsac	hmhm, do we have the estimated range of the fm transmitter?	14:25
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mrmg	Ah, okies	14:25
timeless_mbp	then i changed from that to a control panel	14:25
xorAxAx	Corsac: the manual claims up to 3m	14:26
timeless_mbp	but i had a special goal	14:26
timeless_mbp	for the browser, we started as an application	14:26
Corsac	mpf, that's not really enough	14:26
timeless_mbp	and later (internally, it's a secret) made a widget	14:26
Corsac	as we have an fm receiver and an fm transmitter I wondered about a “walkie talkie” apps :)	14:26
timeless_mbp	Corsac: FCC and friends do not approve of much more powerful w/o a proper license	14:26
Corsac	yeah	14:26
Corsac	it'd have been fun :)	14:27
xorAxAx	Corsac: hah	14:27
timeless_mbp	Corsac: adhoc + ahava?	14:27
timeless_mbp	ahavi/? avahi?	14:27
Corsac	avahi	14:27
Corsac	but yeah, there are other ways	14:27
xorAxAx	but such an app would rock	14:28
Corsac	but pure radio would be fun :)	14:28
xorAxAx	"Phone n900 user XYZ on this network"	14:28
Corsac	CQ CQ	14:28
DocScrutinizer51	Corsac: less than 10 mters but feasible	14:28
xorAxAx	does ekiga have avahi support?	14:28
mrmg	Corsac: I was playing with mine last night and it only worked really near my car radio. In my pocket it was really breaking up.	14:28
Jaffa	wazd: Using the "Other" and "All" icons from HAM now: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30863507@N02/4268177643/	14:28
Corsac	http://www.maemomobiletalk.com/2009/09/17/hamcentral/	14:29
xorAxAx	Jaffa: when will you release? :)	14:29
Jaffa	xorAxAx: Hope to get it in extras-devel today	14:29
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xorAxAx	Jaffa: cool, ping me when its ready	14:29
SpeedEvil	apt-get for angry birds works fine	14:29
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: so you got the strings?	14:29
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: did you see my query?	14:30
timeless_mbp	nope	14:30
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: No, not yet	14:31
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: one warning, you really want to look at en_US.0 not en_US.1	14:31
mrmg	Is there anything for on device development?	14:31
timeless_mbp	because .1's carry legacy strings for other platforms :)	14:32
timeless_mbp	mrmg: you can add the sdk repo	14:32
timeless_mbp	or tools repo	14:32
timeless_mbp	adding the sdk repo is likely to make your device into a shiny brick	14:32
timeless_mbp	so be very careful	14:32
timeless_mbp	personally, i do most of my device coding in perl w/ zenity	14:33
mrmg	bricking is fine, I've owned a Zaurus which spent most of it's time bricked. :)	14:33
timeless_mbp	so i can use my device for dv work	14:33
timeless_mbp	s/dv/dev/	14:33
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: so i can use my device for dev work	14:33
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jjo	aika moni on kyllä tykännyt n900:sta kun on käyttänyt sitä vähän pidempään	14:34
ccooke	mrmg: ... how did you brick a Zaurus?	14:34
timeless_mbp	tekojo: my problem is that nokia has taken teh debian approach to bug tracking	14:34
jjo	oops	14:34
ccooke	mrmg: seriously, what did you do to it? :-)	14:34
mrmg	ccooke: Just flashing roms	14:35
timeless_mbp	any bug is a valid bug and can always be added to the changelog	14:35
timeless_mbp	even if the bug was never valid	14:35
mrmg	Could always get it back	14:35
timeless_mbp	or was found long after it was already fixed	14:35
mrmg	But would often just be stuck with access to nothing but the flash menu	14:35
ccooke	mrmg: oh, okay.	14:35
ccooke	mrmg: you know there are another two rom boot modes?	14:35
ccooke	I wish every device was as unbrickable as the Zaurus, I have to say :-)	14:36
mrmg	hehe	14:36
mrmg	I've probably gone through a fair few different modes.	14:36
mrmg	But I forget most of it now	14:37
mrmg	ccooke: You seen that new linux thing sharp have made?	14:37
mrmg	Looks like an ultra sexy zaurus	14:37
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Stskeeps	wtf :P	14:37
ShadowJK	tigert: there's a guy in this chan who has a production (i think) device where the magnet fell out of back cover too :)	14:37
ccooke	mrmg: build quality looked terrible, though	14:37
Stskeeps	i just managed to get my mer/n900 on charger to survive taking out the battery	14:38
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ccooke	reviews confirmed it, too	14:38
Stskeeps	and putting it back in again	14:38
ccooke	Stskeeps: ... really? interesting	14:38
ccooke	It's not supposed to do that... :-)	14:38
mrmg	ccooke: Oh damn, looked like a fun gadget	14:38
red	how do I make playlists for the media player on my pc so it finds the media files on the device too?	14:38
mrmg	http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/27/sharps-5-inch-pc-z1-netwalker-honors-the-zaurus-legacy/	14:38
Stskeeps	ccooke: i assume it's going to explode in my face in a moment	14:39
mrmg	haha	14:39
w00t	Stskeeps: it was nice knowing you	14:40
ccooke	heh	14:40
Stskeeps	ccooke: basically it stayed up for some seconds and then shut down	14:40
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ccooke	Stskeeps: interesting.	14:40
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ccooke	Stskeeps: dunno if you saw me say, but my wife's n900 now has a broken microusb port. Talk about bad luck :-/	14:41
gavin	seems to be a common problem	14:41
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gavin	I know two other people whose n900 microusb ports have gotten detached	14:41
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ccooke	yeah	14:42
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ccooke	On the plus side, I still have my loaner. So, plan: Get a battery charger, move her settings to the loaner (which also has a broken microusb), then get her phone repaired. Minimum disruption	14:43
tigert	red: the device finds your media files automatically	14:43
tigert	red: oh wait	14:43
red	I know, but I don't want to play by artist or genre or album.	14:43
tigert	red: you want to play the files on the N900 in your pc?	14:43
ccooke	hmm. I must remember to warn her about the update problem...	14:43
mrmg	why didn't they use micro usb?	14:43
red	It won't support playing by directory + subdirs	14:43
tigert	oh yeah	14:43
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red	so I want to make my own playlist files	14:43
tigert	it wont	14:43
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ShadowJK	thesov2: do you have a lab powersupply?	14:44
Corsac	mrmg: they do use microusb?	14:44
red	just wondered how one would do them on PC so the player in N900 would recognize it	14:44
tigert	the mediaplayer supports .pls for netradio...	14:44
tigert	maybe those could be opened wtih filemanager?	14:44
Corsac	mrmg: anyway this is the standard now	14:44
tigert	try if it works?	14:44
ccooke	well, not so much a problem. When you restore from a reflash or someone elses backup and get all their photos and image files, the phone becomes almost entirely unresponsive for an hour or two.	14:44
tigert	red: it doesnt probably support playlists that way though	14:44
red	if I save the pls on my pc, doesn't the directory structure save as my PC had them	14:44
ccooke	Turned out to be the thumbnail daemon...	14:44
red	god the player is bad :S	14:45
mrmg	oh, mini-usb then	14:45
mrmg	Most of my other devices are mini-usb	14:45
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red	What I'd give for having a decent mp3 player on the N900.	14:45
Corsac	all phones are supposed to use micro-usb as a charging port now	14:45
ccooke	mrmg: they used microusb because it's the (enforced) standard in china and (strongly recommended) new standard in Europe.	14:45
mrmg	red: there should be plenty?	14:45
Corsac	now why it is micro and not mini, I don't know	14:45
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mrmg	ccooke: I thought this was some propiatry port as I'm used to those other ones. No worries. At least it's a standard	14:46
ccooke	Because it's smaller.	14:46
mrmg	We've got in enforced in Europe too	14:46
flux	ccooke, it is often claimed that it is better designed for multiple disconnection/connection cycles	14:46
mrmg	Although I think it's only a 'gentlemans' agreement	14:46
ccooke	not enforced, just stronly reconnended.	14:46
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flux	also it has been claimed it is a better fit for the manufacturing process	14:46
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tigert	red: well, try .pls's	14:47
tigert	I dunno if they work, never tried	14:47
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SpeedEvil	Angry birds is so cool.	14:48
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SpeedEvil	You can fail in such beautiful ways	14:48
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Corsac	lardman: ok, about the qr code, I tried to read a tag containing a vcard, mbarcode read it but failed to present the vcard (I guess it's just not supported)	14:48
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zash	vcard or mecard?	14:49
tigert	SpeedEvil: it is awesome :)	14:49
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tigert	its has the same stuff that makes numptyphysics so fun	14:50
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red	mrmg: plenty players so far, haven't found one decent	14:50
red	they all play files np, but bein gused to iPod level functions they all seem lacking. Mainly I'd just want to be able to play back my own playlists or media by folder+subfolder way since I have alot of different gernes I listen and don't want to mix up depending on mood :P	14:51
wazd_e63	Konttori_nokia: around?)	14:51
red	-typos	14:51
wazd_e63	Canola can play by genre	14:51
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wazd_e63	And allows playlist creation otg	14:52
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wazd_e63	anyone interested in hue changer app?	14:53
red	wazd_e63: so can teh default player	14:54
red	if I wan't to listen to drum n bass I have to pick between Drum n' Bass, Jungle, 2-step and so on	14:54
Corsac	wazd_e63: can canola use gapless playback?	14:54
wazd_e63	It doesn't allow playlist creation imo	14:54
red	if Metal, I can only pick Metal, Melodic Death Metal, Trash Metal, etc	14:54
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red	see the problem?	14:54
apol	is it possible to update the maemo thingie from linux?	14:54
wazd_e63	Corsac: don't think so	14:54
apol	(it's asking me for nokia pc suite :S)	14:55
Corsac	mrpf	14:55
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Corsac	apol: use OTA update?	14:55
wazd_e63	Stop listening to that music abominations :D	14:55
apol	what is OTA?	14:55
wazd_e63	Over the air	14:56
wazd_e63	Cmon guys, hue changer seems to be very basic app but it will save the world!	14:57
Corsac	will i	14:57
Gadgetoid_mbp	red: I end up just going by artist instead of genre for moods, doesn't work so well cries	14:57
konttori_nokia	wazd_e63, yes	14:57
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wazd_e63	Konttori_nokia: maybe you're interested?)	14:58
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konttori_nokia	of what?	14:58
red	Gadgetoid_mbp: that's what I've been doing now and then I realized I've used mp3 player like 50% less than when I was running with iPhone	14:58
red	which is kinda sad :l	14:58
wazd_e63	Small app that can change theme hue right on the device	14:58
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wazd_e63	Konttori_nokia: ^	14:59
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Gadgetoid_mbp	red: I don't think the N900 will ever parallel the iPhone as a music player.. fortunately GPodder makes it a good podcast downloader... swings and roundabouts	15:00
red	gPodder is lovely :)	15:00
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red	and I know it won't parallel, N900 won't have Genius :P	15:01
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SpeedEvil	huh? I just managed to fire three birds at once	15:01
red	I just wish it had the basic concept of playing what I wan't it to play.	15:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	SpeedEvil: you shouldn't have fired them in the first place	15:01
rkc	http://maemo.org/development/documentation/pc_connectivity/ => this page talks about "Run Settings > Control Panel > USB networking"	15:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	hired*	15:01
rkc	but i couldnt see any control panel in my tablet	15:01
Gadgetoid_mbp	Way to mess up an awesome joke facepalm	15:02
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range	clap clap	15:02
rkc	where can i see the control panel?	15:03
SpeedEvil	Aha!	15:04
SpeedEvil	release the bird, then tap immediately	15:04
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slonopotamus	...	15:04
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slonopotamus	SpeedEvil, did you try to watch instructions? :)	15:05
SpeedEvil	I saw none	15:05
DocScrutinizer51	instructions??	15:05
slonopotamus	SpeedEvil, blue one splits into three when you tap :P	15:06
SpeedEvil	oh! at any time. Awesome	15:06
DocScrutinizer51	there was one very instructive pic for instructions	15:06
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wazd_e63	is it that new game for n900 with birds?	15:07
SpeedEvil	yes	15:08
wazd_e63	Gamescene on n900 is a tough place, cause you can't release Flashback for 5 bucks here)	15:09
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konttori_nokia	wazd_e63, well, perhaps there are some uses, but the hue change won't be very interesting for the black themes	15:09
konttori_nokia	are you planning to make one?	15:10
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wazd_e63	konttori_nokia: why so?)	15:10
konttori_nokia	or is there one already?	15:10
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wazd_e63	There are already 10 variarions of black theme with different hue	15:10
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wazd_e63	I can't make one cause I'm not a coder, I'm looking for someone to help)	15:12
lopz	hi ;)	15:12
slonopotamus	ouch	15:12
slonopotamus	second screen of levels	15:12
apol	is is there any document about how to update maemo? i feel really lost -.- (it's asking me to backup. i do and then i can't get out of there :S)	15:13
red	extras-devel down?	15:13
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timeless_mbp	konttori_nokia: did Stskeeps poke you about the matchbox/ .xml typo?	15:14
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wazd_e63	Lcuk: see, nobody's interested even in writting 40 rows of code, and you were telling me to administrate something my own :D	15:16
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lcuk	thats because its gonna get MUCH more, theres very few themes that are a single hue	15:17
lcuk	but if you notice RST38h is very nicely trying to follow your xchat styling	15:17
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lcuk	and doing a great job of it!	15:17
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wazd_e63	How can I notice it I wonder :D	15:18
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thesov	in order to flash the phone does the battery have to actually be full, or is mostly charged good enough?	15:19
wazd_e63	Lcuk: anyway, I doubt that hue changer is that difficult to code	15:19
villager	split the birds? ooh, was that what that picture in angry birds meant? I thought it just meant that the small birdies was good for smashing ice and the yellow birdies good for smashing wood	15:20
frals	if i had the know-how to do it i'd probably do it.. but, alas, i don't ;<	15:20
villager	that game really could use some real instructions	15:20
Gadgetoid_mbp	thesov: plugged into mains, if you want to play it safe	15:20
lcuk	wazd_e63, its not that much to change hue of an image, but as i said most themes are multi hued	15:21
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wazd_e63	Lcuk: so?	15:21
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villager	I just couldn't figure that illustration out even if I tried	15:22
ShadowJK	thesov, out of interest, do you have a multimeter?	15:22
red	mmh	15:22
red	any MediaBox users here?	15:22
wazd_e63	Lcuk: is that a problem?)	15:22
red	first launch, click clear index now -> update index now and it takes 0.1sec for it to say index is up to date by no media at all is listed	15:23
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slonopotamus	woah	15:25
slonopotamus	bomb birds rock	15:26
roshenia	how can i remove devel_adhoc?	15:26
pupnik	make tracker more aggressive for large lists perhaps	15:26
pupnik	the new game from the bounce guys?	15:26
wazd_e63	Lcuk: if you change the hue value for something with nice color combination - you'll usually get another nice color combination	15:26
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tybollt	hmm	15:27
tybollt	bunch of maemo updates this morning	15:27
tybollt	mostly qt-related...	15:28
red	i had updates too, and when I clicked update nothing happened and now its not listing updates anymore	15:28
red	maemo 5 update was one of them hmm	15:28
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tybollt	red: well the updates I had would not appear in the app manager - only by doing the apt-get dance would I get them	15:29
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Wolfie	all apps seem to be 0.00MB in ovi store. I guess that's what makes it Beta	15:30
pupnik	you think you should be able to apt-get them all?	15:31
ifreq	Wolfie: sign in	15:31
pupnik	w/o ... ty ifreq	15:31
red	ill try apt-get update	15:31
Wolfie	ifreq: I mean in the application's description. At least Games > Arcade > Labyrinth Lite has "Arcade - 0.00 MB" underneath its screenshot	15:31
Wolfie	and signing in didn't make a difference	15:32
pupnik	ahh	15:32
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ifreq	ah okay	15:32
ifreq	Wolfie: youll see the app size atleast when installing	15:32
red	wtf, my keyboard lights just went out	15:32
Wolfie	ifreq: sure, there it's correct	15:32
ifreq	so didnt think so much	15:32
ShadowJK	red, is your room dark?	15:32
Wolfie	or, at least it shows something above 0.00MB ;)	15:32
red	ShadowJK: ceiling lamp on	15:33
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red	didnt realize it automaticly does it based on lighting =)	15:33
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Wolfie	red: the screen gets also dimmer in darker environments	15:33
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Wolfie	although, the screen is too bright in a pitch-black room	15:34
ShadowJK	if the light sensor thing thinks it's light enough, it switches off keyboard light, but there's also an inactivity timer that switches it off after inactivity	15:34
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ShadowJK	the light sensor can't measure difference between dusk and dark, let alone dark and pitch black :(	15:34
red	Wolfie: well I installed the app to change brightness from the system tray thigny	15:34
red	quite fast to put on the dimmest one	15:35
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Wolfie	red: I avoid using my phone in the middle of night. But it was pain in the a--, i mean eyes, when I needed to do a reminder before sleep	15:36
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rkc	hi guys.. when i try to install some packages.. it keep on bugging about the dependancies in loop.. is there any command in apt-get to install all necessary dependancies?	15:38
slonopotamus	loool :D minethrowers	15:38
ShadowJK	it's worse when you wake up in pitch black and flip the lock button, for a moment you wonder if you accidentally stabbed yourself in the face with a lightsaber ;D	15:38
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SpeedEvil	yeah	15:39
SpeedEvil	I find the screen backlight PWM to be too slow	15:39
SpeedEvil	especially reading at night	15:40
SpeedEvil	flickers a little at lowest illuminations	15:40
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Khertan	Hello Everybody !	15:40
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jebba	SpeedEvil: i got your modules built + cryptsetup, btw	15:40
Khertan	Jaffa: Are you here ?	15:40
SpeedEvil	jebba: yeah - I need to wake up today. Just been taking it easy smashing birds into rocks.	15:40
wazd_e63	Khertan: heya	15:41
Khertan	Jaffa: on py2deb package pages you said : "Doesn't declare a dependency on dpkg-dev, which provides dpkg-buildpackage (which is still used!) and is only available in the SDK repo :-(" ... i didn't understand, there is no need of dpkg-buildpackage dependancy it s not used, and i ve verify.	15:42
Khertan	Hi wazd_e63	15:42
wazd_e63	konttori_nokia: btw, do you plan to add templates for ham and media/clock icons?	15:42
wazd_e63	If they are themeable	15:43
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Wolfie	can I calibrate my accelerometer somehow? it's off kilter	15:44
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SpeedEvil	how off?	15:45
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kirma	you can try your luck by removing batteries for a while and giving it another try	15:45
kirma	I think that was suggested somewhere for a major deviation	15:46
SpeedEvil	Also - if the accellerometer is reporting an accelleration towards you, you may consider a diet.	15:46
kirma	each sensor should have calibration values on it written by the sensor manufacturer	15:46
wazd_e63	Wow, crazy woman is yelling a lection bout USSR in the subway)	15:46
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Wolfie	SpeedEvil: the horizon app says, on a flat table, that it's leaning 4 degrees, if i remember correctly	15:46
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SpeedEvil	Wolfie: err.	15:46
Wolfie	and labyrinth lite had the ball rolling when i had my phone flat on the table	15:46
* SpeedEvil thinks		15:46
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konttori_nokia	wazd_e63, they can be themed, but I haven't yet decided completely how to do it.	15:47
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Wolfie	let me recheck	15:47
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mgedmin	Wolfie, the camera cover/kickstand makes the n900 not precisely flat on the bottom, doesn't it?	15:47
* konttori_nokia just bought the angry birds level pack!		15:47
SpeedEvil	!math s(1/64)	15:47
SpeedEvil	oops	15:47
Wolfie	mgedmin: it rolled the wrong way, in that case	15:47
konttori_nokia	payment worked only on 4th attempt :(	15:47
mgedmin	overcompensating maybe ;)	15:47
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wazd_e63	Konttori_nokia: share the torrent, be the first maemo pirate!))	15:48
Wolfie	4.1, 4.2 degrees on a flat table	15:48
Jaffa	Hmm. Conclusion on bug 7315 is interesting: "it's not like we changed it for arbitrary, subjective reasons" (after outlining arbitrary, subjective reasons ;-))	15:48
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7315 X Terminal application icon looks ugly compared with previous versions	15:48
konttori_nokia	wazd_e63, lol!	15:48
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Wolfie	SpeedEvil: it's like it's skewed a bit on all axes	15:49
SpeedEvil	Wolfie: I am too tired for trig.	15:49
Jaffa	Good to see a new nokian	15:49
SpeedEvil	Wolfie: but that's getting close to the fundamental inaccuracies in the device.	15:49
Wolfie	what I believe to be "standing on its bottom side", the horizon thinks my phone is tilted a bit downwards	15:49
wazd_e63	konttori_nokia: I'll download it just to join you in this rebellion!	15:49
Wolfie	SpeedEvil: that's a bummer. You mean it can't even be calibrated for in the driver?	15:50
Wolfie	what I'd like is to have a similar calibration as for the touch screen. "lay the phone on a flat surface and press [here]" -type of thing	15:50
SpeedEvil	Wolfie: It reads at a resolution of 8mG	15:50
SpeedEvil	or is it 16	15:50
kirma	I wonder if liqacceltests tries to compensate for variable gravity at all	15:50
Stskeeps	wazd_e63: theme-variant-example allows you to theme media player at least	15:51
Wolfie	SpeedEvil: but the innaccuracy seems to be constant. it's constantly skewed one way. So it should be compensateable	15:51
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Wolfie	s/constant/consistent/	15:51
infobot	Wolfie meant: SpeedEvil: but the innaccuracy seems to be consistent. it's constantly skewed one way. So it should be compensateable	15:51
SpeedEvil	yeah - 18mG	15:51
hrw	heh...	15:51
wazd_e63	Stskeeps: yep, I saw that)	15:51
villager	Wolfie: you sure your table is perfectly perpendicular to the Earth's gravitational pull, then?	15:51
SpeedEvil	yes - you'd need to have a calibration thingy to set zero	15:51
SpeedEvil	4 degrees is a noticable tilt	15:51
wazd_e63	Stskeeps: but haven't found anything bout clock for example	15:51
Gadgetoid_mbp	Oh dear, Angry Birds is dangerously good	15:52
kirma	I suspect it doesn't, since I can't get angles up to 90 degrees, but it stops around 80 degrees	15:52
Wolfie	villager: with a certain degree of certainty, sure	15:52
SpeedEvil	The typical zero degree offset is 40mG	15:52
Wolfie	i'd imagine I'd notice 4 degrees of tilt	15:52
wazd_e63	Is there a version of angry birds for symbian 3rd? ^^	15:53
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Wolfie	if nothing else, my chair would roll off into one direction	15:53
lcuk	Wolfie, is this when you lie it with screen up	15:53
lcuk	ie with the camera nobble in the way	15:54
kirma	sensor might be soldered at an angle on the circuit board	15:54
lcuk	too much n900fly knocked it out of whack	15:54
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Wolfie	lcuk: nope, when have the camera pointed away from me	15:54
Wolfie	never installed n900fly :)	15:55
lcuk	theres been a few people talking about this	15:55
lcuk	it is something that should be looked at and find a way to incorporate calibration into the driver before apps see it	15:55
lcuk	could you file a bug if there isnt one already	15:55
Wolfie	as a sanity check, i held the camera in my hands and tried to frame it straight in relation to the rest of the room. It was still 2-4 degrees off	15:55
SpeedEvil	yeah - the uncalibrated error will be on the order of 4 degrees max.	15:55
kirma	my angles seem relatively fine with liqacceltests - except the fact it doesn't seem to do full range of angles.	15:56
Wolfie	lcuk: i could try to remember. It's time to set off for home.	15:56
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DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: on FR we seen even more	15:56
lcuk	ok wolfie	15:56
Arkenoi	where is my updaaaate?	15:57
Nitial	I have it	15:57
redeeman	has anyone noticed changes in the email behavior since the update?	15:57
Nitial	in my n900	15:57
SpeedEvil	kirma: the accel varies from 16.2 to 19.8mG/bit resolution worst-case.	15:57
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Wolfie	ooh, can bugzilla attach files? i could include a photo with a bubble-level ;)	15:57
redeeman	the email client doesn't appear to display attached images anymore in the signature, and im certain it did just a few days ago, in fact i have a screenshot of it i used to show it to a friend, but now it does not do it	15:58
Wolfie	s/level/level comparison/	15:58
infobot	Wolfie meant: ooh, can bugzilla attach files? i could include a photo with a bubble-level comparison ;)	15:58
SpeedEvil	So it may vary from an output count of 50-60 with 1G along the axis.	15:58
kirma	speedevil: separately per axis, or for all axes together?	15:58
Wolfie	home ->	15:58
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SpeedEvil	kirma: the sensitivity is not specified to track per axes.	15:58
SpeedEvil	kirma: so assume worst case.	15:58
lupine_85	oh, wow. I'm /liking/ the integration with Jabber	15:58
SpeedEvil	kirma: so 50-60 max - for 1G - with up to 2and a bit bits of error.	15:59
ShadowJK	with N900 sitting still, how much do the values vary by? I remember it looked fairly consistently quantized :)	15:59
SpeedEvil	kirma: this is from the LIS302dl datasheet.	15:59
kirma	no matter what angle I put the device, I can't go much over 80 degrees on it. I suspect some sort of normalization might make sense (?)	15:59
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SpeedEvil	yes.	16:01
SpeedEvil	To do it sanely, you're at least going to need a user cal procedure.	16:01
ShadowJK	iirc I was able to find 1.00 on all axis	16:01
SpeedEvil	Place on front and back on level table.	16:01
lcuk	that has problems with camera	16:01
SpeedEvil	hmm - true	16:02
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lcuk	hang on tho	16:02
lcuk	no it doesnt	16:02
lcuk	thats meant to be accounted for	16:02
SpeedEvil	rotate phone slowly looking for maximums in each axes	16:02
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lcuk	liqacceltests has some doody things for this sorta stuff	16:02
SpeedEvil	The accellerometer datasheet says that it should be mostly stable per sensor	16:03
lcuk	at STP	16:03
lcuk	but you cannot fix the world	16:03
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: lis302 also has a builtin test/calib feature iirc	16:03
red	how do I run the update commands in apt-get?	16:04
SpeedEvil	I hate datasheets with no noise or linearity info	16:04
red	I know how to refresh the listings	16:04
kirma	assuming the device is not under acceleration other than the gravity, normalizing that to one unit should be ok... and after all, the device should have factory-calibrated corrections in place	16:04
GeneralAntilles	You know, I think the most irritating part of Nokia's process is that people start out entrenched whenever a bug that could be construed as even marginally subjective is filed.	16:05
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SpeedEvil	self test is pretty useless. Self test merely indicates teh device functions.	16:05
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SpeedEvil	(it generates an output - the magnitude of the otuput isn't specified)	16:05
SpeedEvil	kirma: indeed.	16:05
DocScrutinizer51	GeneralAntilles: sorry could you rephrase. my poor English... :-/	16:06
kirma	calibration is supposed to fix zero level and sensitivity... and by any sensibility, it should compensate for axes separately if that's necessary.	16:06
SpeedEvil	kirma: but does it.	16:06
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SpeedEvil	I suppose reading the driver is a way to see if it's implemented in that.	16:07
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Stskeeps	X-Fade: still have stage SVN somewhere?	16:07
AndrewFBlack-Wor	joppu, ping	16:07
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer51, whenever a bug is filed we get to file it so late in their process that they've already had all of the discussions and reached a position.	16:07
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer51, so there's no chance to have a reasoned discussion.	16:07
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer51, they're already completely entrenched and immovable.	16:08
wazd_e63	Ok, I've found the developer for my epic app )	16:08
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Yes.	16:08
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Nice comment on #7315 :)	16:08
DocScrutinizer51	GeneralAntilles: thanks	16:08
wazd_e63	themming world will be saved soon	16:08
AndrewFBlack-Wor	anyone know the current license the two default themes for Fremantle and released under?	16:08
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I'm so tired of the situation I've outlined above that I don't have the energy to hold back the snark. ;)	16:08
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: indeed	16:09
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Switched it on. Get it while it is still up :)	16:09
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, belated congratulations, by the way. :)	16:09
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ShadowJK	oh wow, now this looks stupid after I semiblindly reposted bugzilla comments after the erase :)	16:09
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, very well deserved.	16:09
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Thanks, although I have no time atm to do that part of the job ;)	16:10
Stskeeps	X-Fade: hm, ok, not there	16:10
Stskeeps	interesting	16:10
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Still things missing?	16:10
kirma	well, I don't speak of driver-level calibration. normal gravity differs on different locations, and one has to live with that. but one thing one might assume is that zero level is correct and that axes have same sensitivity, and this should be already provided by factory-level calibration settings... which are initiated by BOOT on CTRL_REG2	16:10
Stskeeps	X-Fade: just a commit message that pointed to a svn thing that doesn't exist anymore	16:11
Stskeeps	nm :) thanks for opening temporarily	16:11
SpeedEvil	kirma: yes - I don't see any calibration comments or functions in the driver.	16:11
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Killing it again ;)	16:11
SpeedEvil	kirma: of course they could be above the driver	16:11
wazd_e63	andrewfblack: joppu: kontorri: look like I've found the place in the theme template for ovi widget	16:11
AndrewFBlack-Wor	wazd_e63, where at?	16:11
ShadowJK	andre__, if you can delete stuff, feel free to delete last comment to 7618... I just blindly resubmitted after getting an email asking that, and other people had in the meanwhile figured out the bug..	16:12
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: joppu: and in case you haven't heard - I'm working on theme hue changer app )	16:12
SpeedEvil	kirma: ah - missed that	16:12
wazd_e63	Andrew	16:12
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: on the right from rss skin	16:12
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wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: there are some squares that looks just like ovi	16:13
AndrewFBlack-Wor	wazd_e63, Cool I just hope that application doesn´t cause a million of the same theme with a slightly changed color	16:13
andre__	ShadowJK, hehe. no, I don't delete stuff :)	16:14
DocScrutinizer51	kirma: ack	16:14
lcuk	wazd you should make a theme template with full rainbow color sweep (hippy tshirt) then you can identify any area within the entire os based on the color you see	16:14
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: well, in fact it will kill all of them	16:15
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SpeedEvil	kirma: odd. I can find no listing in the datasheet for what teh calibration does.	16:15
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: since user will chose hue of his own	16:15
AndrewFBlack-Wor	wazd_e63, ahh ou mean an application on the phone that changes hue?	16:15
SpeedEvil	kirma: and if it makes it better than the stated figures - surely that'd be listed.	16:15
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: yep	16:15
lcuk	wazd_e63, you were going to modify an in use theme? in place without a new variaiton being stored?	16:15
red	how does the backup app work	16:16
DocScrutinizer51	kirma: first you calculate arctan(x,y) and x,z y,z	16:16
red	it says "memory card exported via usb connection."	16:16
red	and cant push anything	16:16
kirma	SpeedEvil: indeed, it's hard to say if the numbers are raw or calibrated ones	16:16
red	and i did not tell it to do a back up yet or anything	16:16
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wazd_e63	Lcuk: it will save old hue state and revert it if needed	16:16
lcuk	are themes optified?	16:16
wazd_e63	Lcuk: no need to back up files	16:16
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DocScrutinizer51	kirma: then you rotate the vector for calibration of smt mechanical errors of lis302 chip	16:17
AndrewFBlack-Wor	wazd_e63, does it permantly can the hue to the theme image files? So no way of going back?	16:17
wazd_e63	Lcuk: yes	16:17
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: well	16:17
kirma	SpeedEvil: http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/12726.pdf ... page 27/42 has a small tidbit, but not much about it	16:17
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I don't think so.	16:17
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: as I said - it will save old hue state	16:17
red	Maemo 5 update says not enough space in target location.	16:17
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: first you need to find per-axes offset and gain errors, then fix those.	16:17
red	any suggestions?	16:17
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: Then work out the axes skew seperately.	16:18
AndrewFBlack-Wor	I think we really need to push to get theme maker finished and fixed	16:18
ShadowJK	unplug usb cable before running the backup application	16:18
red	ShadowJK: okay	16:18
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: there shouldn't be such errors afaik	16:18
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: what errors?	16:19
lcuk	Andrewfblack, wazd_e63 adding a "change hue" option to thememaker sounds like a more realistic initial step	16:19
DocScrutinizer51	lis302 zero should be zero actually	16:19
lcuk	but i can see wazds point, cos windows has hue variations	16:19
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: we were pushing like rabbits here yesterday))	16:19
kirma	I believe SMT mechanical errors are not included in the calibration, only the way the sensor fabrication and in-package layout have caused	16:19
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lcuk	even the buttons in liqbase are dynamically hued	16:19
lcuk	/tinted	16:19
kirma	s/way/those/	16:19
infobot	kirma meant: I believe SMT mechanical errors are not included in the calibration, only the those the sensor fabrication and in-package layout have caused	16:19
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: and the gain of each axis should be considerably identical	16:19
SpeedEvil	kirma: I see nothing in the datasheet saying that these are calibrated errors that it's listing.	16:20
wazd_e63	Lcuk: you have any image editor to change hue on your pc	16:20
wazd_e63	Lcuk: that makes no sense	16:20
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: the datasheet seems to disagree. Page 10. offset error - 40mG	16:20
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wazd_e63	Lcuk: the idea is to change it right on the device	16:20
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: anyway it wouldn't hurt to calibrate thos errors prior to doing first math translation	16:20
SpeedEvil	'typical 0G level offset'	16:20
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SpeedEvil	Hmm. that's even a typical unguaranteed spec.	16:21
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: k. My point was you must NOT mix this offset and gain calib with the adjustment for mounting angle of chip	16:22
SpeedEvil	yes.	16:22
SpeedEvil	I thought you were saying do the angle calibration first.	16:22
SpeedEvil	When that must come last.	16:22
kirma	the whole purpose of the acceleration sensor is to figure out the orientation of the device pretty roughly, albeit preferably at better precision than just to detect what edge is most down	16:22
wazd_e63	And I still want to code the autodithering script for PS	16:23
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: so first do a calib of gain and offset by slowly rotating the device	16:23
ccooke	... Has anyone ever got flipclock working on the n900?	16:23
SpeedEvil	kirma: yeah - that was what I was suggesting way above.	16:23
AndrewFBlack-Wor	wazd_e63, I know Kontorri technically does it as a side project and not as his job but I don't see why Nokia couldn´t have some one contracted to work on it full time for a little while if Kontorri is to busy to work on it	16:23
DocScrutinizer51	then on a second step adjust the skew of SMT between chip and case	16:23
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer:	16:23
kirma	but I must say I find it amusing that a piece of software can't go up to 85+ degrees of angle at all ;)	16:24
SpeedEvil	:)	16:24
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wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: nokians have their own tools	16:24
Arkenoi	Is there a bug in bmo for Qt text entry already? Cannot find it	16:24
wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: why should they care)	16:24
Stskeeps	wazd_e63: can't imagemagick do something like this?	16:25
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AndrewFBlack-Wor	wazd_e63, it would incease number of themes for the device and since everyone ones likes themes it would increase people who buy the phone some	16:25
wazd_e63	Stskeeps: dunno how to use it	16:25
red	anyone else had troubles updating gpodder 2.1-1 (luminous fish something). it constantly appears in my updates but says conflicting packages	16:25
Stskeeps	wazd_e63: it's a set of image manipulation tools	16:25
wazd_e63	Stskeeps: but I know how to script photoshop)	16:25
Arkenoi	red: same for me	16:25
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Jef91	Morning all - anyone else here use the easy-deb-chroot package?	16:26
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SpeedEvil	kirma: hmm - see note 4 on offset on typOff. 'after MSL3 preconditioning' - which could be a reference to the factory cal	16:27
DocScrutinizer51	kirma: what's name of suggested app to test those issues?	16:27
kirma	SpeedEvil: maybe so.	16:28
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: what source you're talking bout?	16:29
DocScrutinizer51	datasheet?	16:29
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: the lis302dl datasheet	16:29
DocScrutinizer51	k	16:29
SpeedEvil	oct 2008 revision	16:29
kirma	DocScrutinizer51: no hardcore test tool I guess, but liqacceltests does something, and has even support to enable/disable filtering (probably not a hardware/driver feature but software everybody seems to use)	16:30
Stskeeps	wazd_e63: did you see test/ directory wallpaper?	16:31
DocScrutinizer51	kirma: probably. I only remeber a select option in lis302 hw for 100/400Hz sampling freq	16:31
Stskeeps	it's like dexter.	16:31
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wazd_e63	Stskeeps: nope	16:32
wazd_e63	Stskeeps:	16:32
Stskeeps	wazd_e63: it's the blue water wallpaper but with red instead	16:32
Stskeeps	looks really bloody :>	16:32
wazd_e63	Stskeeps: I was too excited with coordinates.png :D	16:32
DocScrutinizer51	kirma: apt-get install liqacceltests?	16:32
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wazd_e63	Andrewfblack: have you seen my attempt on Mer boot video btw?	16:32
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kirma	DocScrutinizer51: I installed it from extras-testing... I believe	16:33
AndrewFBlack-Wor	wazd_e63, nope havn seen it	16:33
hrw	GuySoft: is forum nokia accounts not same as ovi store ones?	16:33
wazd_e63	Oh, I haven't posted it here	16:33
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wazd_e63	Stskeeps: can you share the link please?	16:33
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Stskeeps	http://lotro.ucoz.ru/Mer_boot_4.avi	16:34
tybollt	hmm	16:34
wazd_e63	Stskeeps: thx	16:35
tybollt	anyone else that is unable to access www.ovi.mobi?	16:35
tybollt	ehr via the link from inside ovi store?	16:35
wazd_e63	Damn, typing with swipes is like sex ))	16:35
kirma	"typing with swipes" ?	16:35
tybollt	https://www.ovi.mobi	16:35
X-Fade	tybollt: try store.ovi.mobi ;)	16:36
tybollt	X-Fade: meh :P	16:36
wazd_e63	Well, pressing neighbour keys with a single press	16:36
tybollt	I want to get at other parts of the ovi shitz	16:36
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wazd_e63	like drew for example	16:36
tybollt	and by doing so - you get an orgasm eventually?	16:37
tybollt	must be hard to type very much on that keyboard :S	16:37
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wazd_e63	Tybollt:	16:38
wazd_e63	tybollt: you bet)	16:38
Stskeeps	joppu, AndrewFBlack-Wor, wazd_e63: if i made a source package template for n900 themes, would you use it? :P	16:38
hrw	~hail apt-get	16:38
* infobot bows down to apt-get and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		16:38
AndrewFBlack-Wor	Stskeeps, what you mean?	16:38
wazd_e63	Stskeeps: me? Sure :)	16:38
Stskeeps	AndrewFBlack-Wor: like real themes are made, without thememaker :P	16:38
AndrewFBlack-Wor	Stskeeps, yeah	16:38
hrw	much easier to check ovi store ;D	16:39
tybollt	hrw: woot?	16:39
AndrewFBlack-Wor	Stskeeps, been wanting to do it that way but never been sure how to do it	16:39
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GuySoft	hrw, i dono, why did you ask me? :-/	16:42
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jon1012	when I try to install angry bird I get an "unable to install" error	16:43
jon1012	anyone got the same ?	16:43
hrw	GuySoft: sorry - irssi expanded 'guys:'	16:44
andre__	jon1012: what is that? and from where? and how?	16:44
jon1012	in app manager	16:44
jon1012	and since red pill mode was deactivated I can't get the log	16:44
hrw	tybollt: less /var/lib/apt/lists/downloads.maemo.nokia.com_fremantle_ovi_._Packages and use apt-get to install them without going to ovi store	16:44
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jon1012	(clicking in the ovi store)	16:44
jon1012	(bring the app manager)	16:44
jon1012	(to install "angry bird")	16:44
jon1012	'all the other apps install, but angry birds not)	16:45
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odin_	jebba, ping ?	16:45
jon1012	(it tells me "unable to install application" in a big yellow popup)	16:45
DocScrutinizer51	kirma: SpeedEvil: liqacceltest seems kinda wrong. how can arctan(0, x) change for changing x?	16:45
Jef91	jon1012 does it even download the app?	16:46
jon1012	yeah	16:46
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jon1012	but it's at the install step that it borks	16:46
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jon1012	(why did they remove red pill mode ? :()	16:46
jon1012	(will they remove terminal as well in next revisions or what ?)	16:46
Stskeeps	red pill is bad bad bad karma	16:47
Jef91	jon1012 I've never even used red pill mode - just drop down to terminal and use dpkg	16:47
felipec	anyone has used maemo-sdk+ on a non-debian system?	16:47
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DocScrutinizer51	red pil is dead in 1.0.1 I heard	16:47
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VRe	I really wonder if this ovi is kept as browser based, that how they are going to even compete with the Application Manager in nice to use category..	16:47
ShadowJK	this browser based thing is interesting, on symbian it's about as slow as native ;-D	16:48
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Jef91	VRe agreed. having to load a webpage is stupid	16:48
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SpeedEvil	crappy test tool: http://www.mauve.plus.com/axes	16:50
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SpeedEvil	16300 -1098:1152 -1062:1044 -1098:1188	16:51
SpeedEvil	seems to be about the limits of mine	16:51
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SpeedEvil	which shows a bit of offset - but not bad. (iteration, x/y/z max/mins	16:52
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wazd_e63	Y	16:54
wazd_e63	Damn, so cold)	16:54
SpeedEvil	Warming up here. 6C (inside)	16:54
SpeedEvil	a balmy 2 out.	16:54
AndrewFBlack-Wor	anyoe know where new app manaer icons are kept?	16:55
AndrewFBlack-Wor	they in icon folder or theme folder like media player icons	16:55
wazd_e63	I have something like -20 here)	16:55
JamieBennett	Anyone know how I would get a list of all packages installed on the N900 by default, I want to see what extra's I've installed from vanilla?	16:55
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Tonzas	anyone know is there some combination for tab key at n900 :p	16:56
jon1012	Tonzas: ctrl + i	16:57
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Tonzas	jon1012: ah i see, ty	16:59
saltsa_	JamieBennett, I think some dpkg* command will tell you the install date of the package	16:59
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JamieBennett	saltsa_: Ah good point. I can see a list of all packages and I was scrabbling around trying to find a web page list of packages to compare against	17:00
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saltsa_	JamieBennett, rpm would provide that by default but dunno how it can be shown with dpkg	17:01
Arkenoi	a strange thing: i often see a brief led blink on my n900 with peripherial sight while no notifications are active. if i stare directly into the led, i never see it, i only notice it when my eye is moving.	17:01
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, that's not much difference between inside and outside :-)	17:01
tybollt	so anyone's got an idea what the qt updates pushed today were?	17:01
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: no. Cashflow is a problem ATM.	17:01
ShadowJK	Arkenoi, try see if it's upper left or lower left...	17:01
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: hence lots of jumpers.	17:01
ShadowJK	ah, I have a virtually unlimited supply of trees, and an axe	17:02
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: two heats.	17:02
ShadowJK	Yep. Using firewood makes your warm twice :-)	17:02
SpeedEvil	No convenient trees here alas.	17:03
SpeedEvil	but electric blanket + jumpers works.	17:03
saltsa_	JamieBennett, ls /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list -lh	17:03
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ShadowJK	My thermometer said "out of range" whent it was as coldest :-(	17:03
saltsa_	the time should be same than the time it was installed	17:04
* JamieBennett goes to check		17:04
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hrw	I wonder did someone verified ovi packages...	17:09
hrw	http://pastebin.ca/1748326	17:10
tybollt	The connection has timed out	17:10
tybollt		17:10
tybollt		17:10
tybollt		17:10
tybollt		17:10
tybollt		17:10
tybollt		17:10
tybollt		17:11
tybollt		17:11
tybollt	meh, sorry about that	17:11
tybollt	wrong window :S	17:11
JamieBennett	saltsa_: Thanks, worked a treat	17:11
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ShadowJK	(becausue there's a right window to type 8 empty lines)	17:11
ShadowJK	:)	17:11
jon1012	I have strange errors	17:12
jon1012	all aps download well beside angrybirds	17:12
* DocScrutinizer51 wonders how to filter away all those zhhk pkgs in HAM		17:12
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tybollt	ShadowJK: surely even your copy of vi can remove empty lines? ;P	17:12
jon1012	when I try in termiunal (since app manager doesn't work for this app), I get this :	17:12
jon1012	After this operation, 20,0MB of additional disk space will be used. Get:1 https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ angrybirds 1.1.0 [11,3MB] E: Method https has died unexpectedly!	17:12
RST38h	hrw: Why would you verify what your business partner does?	17:12
RST38h	hrw: He is not some unknown person working for free, you pay him to do it right =)	17:13
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hrw	RST38h: right	17:13
* RST38h cackles evilly		17:13
VRe	jon1012: I think there is/was some f*ckup with the level pack which is supposed to be for money but can be downed with apt-get - maybe thats why its gone	17:14
hrw	levelpack1?	17:15
VRe	hrw: yeap	17:15
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jon1012	wow yeah indeed	17:15
jon1012	I have it in the list of apt lol	17:15
VRe	jon1012: it sooo much faster to get the stuff with apt that clicketiclick from the web ,)	17:18
hrw	VRe: apt-get install angrybirds-levelpack1	17:18
jon1012	true	17:18
jon1012	doing it right now	17:18
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DocScrutinizer51	OMG they didn't even manage to fix the '*100#' wrong number issue	17:18
VRe	hrw: that, if you want to be evil person abusing the broken system	17:18
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer51, in general it seems that only stuff needed for pushing the next update was fixed	17:20
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DocScrutinizer51	like eyecany flood on HAM?	17:20
hrw	VRe: I use apt-get for 99% of installs on maemo devices	17:20
VRe	I wonder how they are supposed to recognize the customers from others if you can apt-get the stuff? Or does apt-get have some special addons for maemo?	17:20
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer-8, oh and ovi store :)	17:20
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ShadowJK	VRe, atleast for nokia's own repos there's thingy that identifies device as a nokia device	17:21
* DocScrutinizer51 shrugs and reboots to put modemcontrol buttons to effect		17:21
VRe	ShadowJK: well, for scrachbox is that nokia-binaries thing with UUID or something, but store repo does not have anything like that	17:22
ShadowJK	just by looking at the version, 44, 2 weeks after the old firmware (version 42) :)	17:22
* Arkenoi remembers someone posted a link for n900 spare parts pricing and availability, cannot find it now, did anyone bookmark it?		17:22
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hrw	ovi store packages do not even have license inside	17:23
ShadowJK	Here's on shop in finland: http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900	17:23
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ShadowJK	one*	17:23
VRe	Arkenoi: scratched screen? :)	17:23
Arkenoi	ah, thanks, i think it was that one	17:23
Arkenoi	nope, just a friend wants to buy n900 but he prefers to pay $460 in US rather than $900 in Russia	17:24
Arkenoi	and he needs cyrillic keyboard	17:24
VRe	ah nice	17:24
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ShadowJK	they dont have cyrillic :/	17:26
DocScrutinizer51	k, cellular modem control buttons 0.3-0 works nicely	17:26
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RST38h	Arkenoi: Switch to cyrillic layout is done by changing a single gconf value	17:28
hrw	ok, looks like all from offscreen technologies goes to trash	17:29
RST38h	Arkenoi; Of course there won't be any inscriptions on the buttons but what the hell	17:29
RST38h	hrw: ALL? Why?	17:29
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* RST38h found offscr games quite playable		17:29
hrw	RST38h: I checked apps	17:29
hrw	long load time	17:30
hrw	nonstandard interface	17:30
Arkenoi	RST38h, yep, i know, he just need a keymat	17:30
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RST38h	hrw: And that is bad?	17:30
hrw	for me it is	17:31
hrw	and man.. offscr-converter is joke, not app	17:31
* RST38h does not get why people do not like non standard UIs		17:31
RST38h	But yea, I do find it funny how you can screw the Style Guide, QA, and other considerations as long as you are Nokia's business partner	17:32
lcuk	RST38h, why cant you have different?	17:32
lcuk	qa testing doesnt block ui does it? (as long as its functional)	17:33
lcuk	its deffo better to have consitency	17:33
RST38h	lcuk: You can but hrw will curse you :)	17:33
RST38h	lcuk: there are other problems with those apps	17:33
lcuk	thats a different issue	17:34
lcuk	and technically, they dont need to follow community guidelines because they arent community apps	17:34
lcuk	i wish however the source for the simpler ones was available	17:34
lcuk	so that we could help them and fix them and make variations	17:35
hrw	lcuk: so I can release app which breaks all guidelines due to fact that I am company?	17:35
RST38h	lcuk: there is nothing there you cannot figure out by yourself	17:36
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RST38h	hrw: The guidelines are pretty arbitrary to begin with	17:36
andrewgodwin	I found a few of the games to have awful framerates, too	17:36
andrewgodwin	Angry Birds appears to be the only well-written one :)	17:37
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ccooke	hmm	17:37
RST38h	What are all these soft porn videos offered on Ovi???	17:38
ccooke	RST38h: I was wondering that :-/.	17:38
frals	moneymakers?	17:38
Lynoure	hmm, soft porn, probably?	17:38
Lynoure	Nokia is a Finnish company, we are still quite liberal about sex...	17:38
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Robot101	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_pornography_industry_revenue_per_capita	17:39
lcuk	hrw did you file bugs about the issues	17:39
lcuk	Robot101, how did you get your hands on that list so quick lol	17:40
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Robot101	lcuk: someone linked me to it the other day, it seemed relevant :)	17:40
lcuk	haha	17:40
lcuk	surprised by finland, or maybe not since its so cold you gotta do something to stay warm	17:40
crashanddie	Robot101: and thus, you can see that even though Russia produces a lot, they don't sell it well	17:41
crashanddie	lcuk: packing up my gear :)	17:41
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dottedmag	"This list is incomplete; you can help by [increasing revenue] for the country you live in."	17:41
crashanddie	waiting for the movers to come round	17:41
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crashanddie	I love it when wikipedia uses the word "expanding it" in articles for pornography or male related parts	17:42
DocScrutinizer51	Arkenoi: I,d be willing to pay a few bucks for the original qwerty keypad	17:42
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matthew-	HMMM	17:42
matthew-	my devices name changed from Nokia n900 to some BCM2048B0 Initialization Configuration	17:43
matthew-	after update	17:43
hrw	offscr-pocket-calculator roXX!	17:43
Jef91	does anyone else have issues reading the debian repos via the easy debian package manager?	17:43
hrw	total crap compared to normal maemo one	17:43
RST38h	hrw <-- just cannot be pleased	17:43
* RST38h takes out hammer, nails, cross, and a Blackberry		17:44
redeeman	hrw: where did you get the offscr one?	17:44
lcuk	hrw just has high standards :)	17:44
lcuk	redeeman, ovi store	17:44
crashanddie	lcuk: watch out nao when you post to specific subfora :P I'm a mod	17:44
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redeeman	ah back when it was accidentally open?	17:44
* wazd_e63 drinks whiskey-cola...		17:44
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lcuk	crashanddie, how long will it take your stuff to get there	17:44
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crashanddie	lcuk: about 8 weeks	17:45
lcuk	i barely post in the forums anyway	17:45
crashanddie	8 weeks min, 11 weeks max	17:45
RST38h	Oh shit	17:45
RST38h	X-Fade: Are you around?	17:45
crashanddie	so for the next 2 months I'm going to have to live without most of my gear	17:45
frals	8 weeks O_o where to/from?	17:45
crashanddie	RST38h: he's rather thin and tall	17:46
crashanddie	frals: uk to australia	17:46
* Arkenoi still have not recieved leather case i ordered two weeks ago from HK		17:46
frals	cool	17:46
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RST38h	crashanddie: It's ok, I am not going after him for his calorie content	17:46
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crashanddie	RST38h: you asked, I answered	17:46
RST38h	Arkenoi: They are still catching that dog.	17:46
FIQ	oh	17:47
FIQ	RST38h: ping	17:47
crashanddie	he just said something	17:47
hrw	ok, level, electric beams, elements, solitaire stay	17:47
crashanddie	that's like knocking on someone's door while he's talking to the neighboor	17:47
RST38h	Ahha! The Maemo-Guru guy makes himself useful for one last time!	17:47
FIQ	i'm tired today i guess	17:47
crashanddie	neighbour**	17:47
RST38h	FIQ: Yes?	17:47
crashanddie	RST38h: link?	17:47
FIQ	RST38h, xchat is in what repo? : >	17:48
nomis	heh, angrybirds is cool.	17:48
hrw	nomis: yes	17:48
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RST38h	crashanddie: The Planet	17:50
RST38h	FIQ: Extras-Testing	17:50
FIQ	ok, ty	17:50
JamieBennett	Is there no file online listing packages installed by default in Fremantle?	17:50
JamieBennett	/me's googlefu isn't working today	17:50
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villager	I did a dpkg -l once not long after I got my n900, it may not be completely clean but anyway, it's at http://www.ping.uio.no/~ovehk/n900-dpkg.txt	17:53
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xorAxAx	bug 7315	17:54
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7315 X Terminal application icon looks ugly compared with previous versions	17:54
JamieBennett	villager thats exactly what I need for a fresh install	17:54
* JamieBennett ponders reflashing to get the list		17:55
X-Fade	JamieBennett: list packages in the package interface for rootfs ;)	17:55
RST38h	Ah here he is	17:56
X-Fade	JamieBennett: rsync -avP root@oldstage:/var/www/nitro.log /var/www/	17:56
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X-Fade	Ehm...	17:56
RST38h	X-Fade: Why the hell did ZLibrary get its own Maemo5 product page?	17:56
X-Fade	RST38h: Because somebody named it user/* ?	17:56
RST38h	X-Fade: No.	17:56
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RST38h	X-Fade: It is in libs/	17:57
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Sargun_Screen	what does the latest maemo update include fixes for?	17:57
* hrw wants good made maemo5 themes...		17:57
X-Fade	RST38h: Was it in testing on a separate page?	17:57
hrw	checking ovi store ones now	17:57
hrw	disaster...	17:57
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RST38h	X-Fade: I do not think so	17:57
X-Fade	JamieBennett: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_root_pr_armel/	17:58
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RST38h	hrw: You do understand that 99% "normal" people will not notice anything disastrous about Ovi's current selection?	17:58
RST38h	hrw: Including the desperate housewives crap.	17:58
hrw	RST38h: yes, I do	17:58
hrw	Clowns theme is nice pink	17:59
JamieBennett	X-Fade: great, need to get it in a .txt file now	17:59
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X-Fade	JamieBennett: /var/lib/dpkg/status might be better ;)	17:59
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frals	what signal should i connect to to get the "long press" action in gtk?	17:59
pierlux	who do I contact to get a packaged removed from maemo-extras-devel ^	18:00
pierlux	?	18:00
nomis	hrw: do you know if there are screenshots from the various themes? I hate to install them blindfolded...	18:00
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X-Fade	pierlux: me?	18:00
DocScrutinizer51	huh? pkg removed??	18:00
pierlux	X-Fade, can you remove mapbuddy-dbg ? I removed the -dbg package from further builds	18:00
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: sometimes authors don't want it anymore	18:00
hrw	nomis: no idea - I just checking them one by one	18:01
DocScrutinizer51	ok if it's my own pkg	18:01
Robot101	debian does that automatically for stuff that's no longer built from source	18:01
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nomis	hrw: make screenshots! :)	18:01
nomis	what was the shortcut? CTRL-Shift-P?	18:02
hrw	nomis: sorry - I just ended with digital nature	18:02
hrw	nomis: all Hildon-* ones are dark and even usable. rest are background + sick set of colours	18:03
X-Fade	pierlux: Ok, will do.	18:03
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X-Fade	RST38h: No idea. Will look into that later.	18:03
nomis	hrw: ok, thanks.	18:03
pierlux	X-Fade, thanks :) if it makes it easier... anything earlier than 0.1-2 is broken anyway so you may delete it too hehe	18:04
RST38h	X-Fade: Ok, it's your call.	18:04
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hrw	can someone share 'dpkg -l' from 51.1?	18:07
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Jaffa	Anyone got a weird email about "telnet for maemo 5 nokia N900"	18:09
kamui	I love angry birds	18:10
kamui	awesome	18:10
SpeedEvil	telnet is awesomer!	18:10
zash	netcat > telnet	18:10
moo-_-	import socket	18:10
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zash	'ascii' could not encode char!	18:11
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moo-_-	zash: py3k!	18:14
zash	moo-_-: in hardy?	18:17
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kamui	Flandry, Im sorry about the W0W thread	18:20
kamui	there was no need for me to revive a dead post, I just couldn't help myself	18:20
kamui	Ill be good from now on, I promise	18:20
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LuciusMare	hi	18:21
Jaffa	Doh. I think I've got to reflash.	18:21
Jaffa	Don't remove your package when it provides the menus and you haven't implemented the tidy-up code yet	18:21
LuciusMare	i have a problem, i want to keep one app not updated,while about ten others should update - how can i unselect it from the update all list?	18:21
Shapeshifter	gah. this is pure agony. n900 now expected mid february in switzerland ._.	18:21
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Shapeshifter	I don't even want their stupid 2-arrow localized crap keyboard.	18:22
Shapeshifter	:'(	18:22
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eean	started the maemo 5 update, it failed, and now apt-get -f install is: E: The package libgtk2.0-common needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it.	18:22
LuciusMare	hah	18:22
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DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: you bet you don't. I'm right this moment about to order a qwerty from http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900	18:24
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LuciusMare	hey	18:25
LuciusMare	i spent two weeks truing to find a shop that has n900 in stock, works in europe and doesnt have a localised kyn	18:26
LuciusMare	*kyn	18:26
LuciusMare	:o	18:26
LuciusMare	*kyb	18:26
maerzhase	LuciusMare: you can "Piii"	18:28
maerzhase	sorry	18:28
maerzhase	pin a app in the apt-get config	18:29
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maerzhase	https://wiki.debian.org/AptPinning	18:31
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jon1012	I have a localized keyboard :(	18:39
jon1012	it's very strange	18:39
jon1012	(french azerty)	18:39
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: uhm, my finnish is a bit rusty >.>	18:39
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: I can't find it on that page. only accessoires.	18:39
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Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: did you find one?	18:40
slonopotamus	anyone passed 3-5 in angry birds? :)	18:41
\|R	still in 2-*	18:41
\|R	hehe	18:41
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DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: N900 QWERTY COVER ASSY 253145	18:42
\|R	slonopotamus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZN_gb7ic9k	18:42
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: sounds about right to me	18:42
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer51, assy?	18:42
DocScrutinizer51	assembly	18:43
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Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: for 13 euros.	18:43
Shapeshifter	>.>	18:43
Shapeshifter	that's just bits of plastic.	18:44
DocScrutinizer51	fsckng cheap, so I'm not all that sure about it	18:44
Shapeshifter	all that shop even seems to sell is accessoires and stuff	18:44
Shapeshifter	replacement parts	18:44
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: dude that's not the phone ;)	18:44
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SpeedEvil	there is lots cheaper	18:45
DocScrutinizer51	aah you're right - prolly you want sth like N900 QWERTY KEYMAT ENGLISH 265740	18:46
SpeedEvil	you can gfet them for 5 dollars if you order lots of stuff	18:46
SpeedEvil	from tesso -	18:46
SpeedEvil	$170 minimum order tho	18:46
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: I think he wants the phone	18:46
Shapeshifter	as do I	18:46
Shapeshifter	and not just some part.	18:46
SpeedEvil	(04:42:12 PM) DocScrutinizer51: Shapeshifter: N900 QWERTY COVER ASSY 253145	18:46
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SpeedEvil	oh -	18:46
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: aahh you mean just the keyboard?	18:46
SpeedEvil	\i see	18:46
DocScrutinizer51	hey 14 bucks for keys assembly is ok for me. 7 bucks for stylus is just robbery	18:47
SpeedEvil	slonopotamus: about 15	18:47
Shapeshifter	allright.	18:47
Shapeshifter	not bad yeah	18:47
Shapeshifter	mhh	18:47
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: tesso are very reasonable - $.5 for stylus	18:47
Shapeshifter	maybe I could buy a couple for like 170$ and sell them here in switzerland.	18:47
Shapeshifter	for like triple the price	18:47
Shapeshifter	;)	18:47
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Shapeshifter	$3.91 QWERTY KEYMAT ENGLISH at tesso	18:49
Shapeshifter	that seems like nothing	18:49
Shapeshifter	any clues what a "DOMESHEET ASSY" could be?	18:49
SpeedEvil	it's hte underlying keydomes	18:50
Shapeshifter	ah I see. thanks.	18:50
SpeedEvil	the actual springy bits	18:50
Shapeshifter	yep	18:50
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking - look at the l1/l2 manual	18:51
SpeedEvil	for how-to	18:51
Shapeshifter	brilliant, thanks :)	18:53
Shapeshifter	tesso wants me to be an "organization"?	18:55
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: (domesheet) usually a white plasticsheet wit a dome for each key	18:55
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: if you order those keymats, I'd pay for two	18:56
DocScrutinizer51	as long as they have four white arrows one per key ;-)	18:58
Shapeshifter	lol $175 minimum purchase. but "your price" for the keymats is 0.00. So I pay 0$ for 10 pieces and then the delivery and small-oder fees	18:59
Shapeshifter	anyway, lets see what happens if I buy more stuff	18:59
cehteh	hehe order a n900 DIY kit :) every spare part :P	18:59
Shapeshifter	let's throw in a couple of stylii	18:59
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Shapeshifter	couple of battery covers, sure people will smash them ;)	19:00
cehteh	lol .. well these are extremely expensive compared that manufacturing those costs only a few cents	19:00
eean	what's up with those nokia-branded n900 covers on that site	19:01
eean	why didn't it come with the n900 if they exist at all?	19:01
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Shapeshifter	oh I see now why every piece costs 0$ for me. "You are not allowed to purchase sku 367137."	19:03
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Shapeshifter	for every article.	19:03
Shapeshifter	TESSCO sells Nokia parts only to Authorized Service Centers. To become a Nokia ASC, contact Lartesha Jorden at 321-726-4442.	19:04
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Shapeshifter	well awesome	19:05
SpeedEvil	ah - missed that. oops	19:05
SpeedEvil	wonder what that involves	19:05
Stskeeps	probably vaseline	19:05
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ifreq	unforgettable night	19:06
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pupnik	why ifreq	19:07
ifreq	19:05 < SpeedEvil> wonder what that involves	19:07
jebba	ping odin_	19:07
pupnik	oh	19:07
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matthew-	ifreq: hey	19:08
ifreq	hey matthew-	19:08
Shapeshifter	they're also called tessco and not tesso ;)	19:08
Shapeshifter	I'm adding the extra info to the wiki.	19:08
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Jaffa	Anyone ever used flasher-3.5.exe on Windows?	19:09
ifreq	no sire	19:10
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SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: I keep wanting to call them tesco.	19:11
SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: as they deliver groceries to me	19:11
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tybollt	ok	19:16
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tybollt	michal jerz is interesting sometimes	19:16
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tybollt	installing packages manually by means of dpkg is "MUCH LESS SECURE" than doing it via menus/red pill mode	19:17
tybollt	uhm... I'd like to smoke whatever he's smoking, presto stuff that	19:17
SpeedEvil	All operations through menus are approved by a special team at nokia HQ that personally examine every request for authenticity!	19:18
tybollt	=D	19:19
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hardaker	err... what's the dpkg option for showing details about a package?	19:29
hardaker	like who packaged it.	19:29
hrw	"apt-cache show PACKAGENAME" is what I use	19:29
* hardaker hates rpm and dpkg		19:29
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hrw	hardaker: lack of deps roxx?	19:29
hardaker	apt-cache would work; thanks.	19:29
hardaker	I wrote a script to list the largest consumers of / space.	19:30
hardaker	of course, the top three are all nokia.	19:30
hardaker	nokiamessaging 2418352	19:30
hardaker	tracker 3329382	19:30
hardaker	nokia-maps-core 5341630	19:30
hardaker	ha. and number 4 is the tutorial	19:31
hardaker	now... what to call my script...	19:32
hardaker	gotslash?	19:32
hardaker	checkintoslash?	19:33
DocScrutinizer51	wtf?? tutorial?	19:33
hardaker	tutorial-home-applet 1155898	19:33
DocScrutinizer51	slash-nokia	19:33
ShadowJK	that's just 1.1meg?	19:33
hardaker	remember that little bar you got at the bottom of the screen when you first turned it on?	19:33
hardaker	I deleted the applet from the screen but not from the inventory.	19:33
hardaker	yeah.	19:33
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ShadowJK	hardaker, find all libraries that are only depended on by a single app, and add that to that app's score	19:34
Caesium	is it safe to uninstall it?	19:34
hardaker	DocScrutinizer51: I like that ;-)	19:34
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hardaker	Caesium: not sure why it wouldn't be.	19:34
hardaker	ShadowJK: it'll calculate the totals from any particular package...	19:34
hardaker	I just added a '-i' switch to add up everything in /usr/share/dbus-1/services as the default list of packages to search for.	19:35
hardaker	I was (next) going to add a -l swtich to find everything output by dpkg -l	19:35
hardaker	so yes, I'm not including dependency libraries in the list I just generated.	19:35
Corsac	what about osso-tutorial?	19:35
DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: so did you try that finnish store?	19:36
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DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: even if it's considerably more expensive, still I wouldn't care as long as they sell at all	19:37
hardaker	Corsac: I don't have that package name installed.	19:37
Corsac	grep on osso-tutorial	19:37
Corsac	there are a lot of locale packages	19:37
hardaker	I still think they should have moved /usr/share to /opt entirely....	19:38
hardaker	they could have done any internal moves needed at flash time.	19:38
hardaker	perl findbig osso-tutorial-l10n-engb	19:39
hardaker	3273 osso-tutorial-l10n-engb	19:39
DocScrutinizer51	hardaker: ACK	19:39
hardaker	(but there are a bunch of those)	19:39
eean	I saved a chunk of space by moving /var/lib/dkpg	19:39
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hardaker	eean: I'm still not sure that's safe...	19:39
eean	moving all of /usr/share would kind of defeat the purpose of having a fast root	19:39
hardaker	eean: ok, how about at least /usr/share/doc	19:40
Stskeeps	doc is purged	19:40
alexj__	hi all, i have upgraded to the new firmware but still ovi store doesnt work me, i am using hideuseragent	19:40
DocScrutinizer51	hardaker: even whole /usr, pus /var	19:40
alexj__	is that a problem ?	19:40
hardaker	the problem is that most of the /usr/share stuff doesn't need to be loaded by the app (quickly)	19:40
Corsac	are there really benchmarks about that?	19:40
jX	alexj__: Yes, but it's a problem with Nokia, not you.	19:40
hardaker	Stskeeps: whoops; didn't notice that.	19:41
alexj__	jX: shud i do something for the ovi store to work, like changing my user agent to something default	19:41
jX	alexj__: All you can do is wait for Nokia to open it to everyone.	19:41
alexj__	jX: aaah, so it is still not open to all	19:41
jX	right	19:41
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anidel	hi there	19:42
alexj__	jX: thanks for the info	19:42
jX	np	19:42
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thorbjorn	LuciusMare: Hmm, in Netherlands the N900 sells with US keyboard as far as I am aware.	19:45
anunakin	Any can help on how to have "af-sb-init.sh" on maemo 5 sdk?	19:45
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airstrike	hi. i'm trying to follow http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_GUI_Installer but i'm stuck on the part where i'm supposed to start the ui framework	19:45
odin_	is there a guide to building and packaging things for N900 ? does autoconf support installing into an arbitrary (empty) folder (which is considers to be rootfs / ) ?	19:45
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airstrike	step 4 tells me to --- [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >af-sb-init.sh start -- but i don't have that .sh file	19:46
anunakin	I build a .deb file here, but cant teste because I dont have a N900	19:46
anunakin	me too!	19:47
anunakin	On diablo maemo 4 sdk I have it:	19:47
anunakin	DIABLO_ARMEL ~/dev/freedroid/freedroidrpg-0.13rc2 $ dpkg -S af-sb-init.sh	19:47
anunakin	osso-af-sb-startup: /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh	19:47
rkc	anuakin: you can try nokiaś remote device access	19:47
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hrw	bye all	19:48
anunakin	rkc: how?	19:48
anunakin	airstrike: I going try "apt-get install osso-af-sb-startup"	19:48
airstrike	i think somehow the fakeroot apt-get install nokia-binaries didn't work	19:49
airstrike	so i'm trying again	19:49
rkc	anunakin: search in forum nokia website.. its like u can remotely test ur applications from your home..	19:49
rkc	these phones are placed somewhere in finland.. u book it and use it	19:49
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anunakin	airstrike: qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped	19:50
rkc	all u need is forum nokia registration	19:50
anunakin	rkc: thanks	19:50
rkc	welcome	19:50
anunakin	I have it	19:50
rkc	?	19:51
anunakin	forum nokia registration	19:52
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anunakin	rkc: N900 Available in 2 hours 47 minutes, on RDA! shit!	19:56
rkc	yep..	19:58
rkc	no other go.. u need to wait..	19:59
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Hahaha my 2.5 year old daughter is acing advanced Angry Birds levels with blind luck	20:00
Macer	blah. kde does something irritating	20:01
Macer	it is moving files on the same nfs by routing it through the local network connection when i use the dolphin crap	20:01
saltsa_	is it possible to disable vibration from alarm clock?	20:02
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Macer	oh	20:04
Macer	maybe not.. oops	20:04
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zash	why have no-one built unisonfs with copy-on-read to a local cache? eg caching "popular" files from a usb-hdd or nfs	20:05
thorbjorn	saltsa_: It seems to me that vibration is a global setting.	20:06
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wazd_e63	Woo, I'm still alive	20:11
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Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer51: I have not. I might try it when I get my phone.	20:14
Shapeshifter	ifever ._.	20:14
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DocScrutinizer51	Shapeshifter: fair enough	20:14
wackl	was the powermanagement modified with the 44-1 update? i get far longer battery runtime after the update...(same places & apps running)	20:14
wazd_e63	Wackl: placebo patch)	20:15
DocScrutinizer51	wackl: like?	20:15
Muhvi--	i haven't had any problems with battery runtime	20:15
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wackl	one day with 3G always enabled and 5 min email checking	20:16
wackl	max	20:16
wackl	now it's running the whole day and battery symbol shows 3/4	20:16
SpeedEvil	I get _much_ less.	20:16
wackl	i've not many apps/widgets installed	20:17
SpeedEvil	But that's because the stupid thumbnailerd has decided to index my laptop backup	20:17
SpeedEvil	on battery	20:17
DocScrutinizer51	well I got these results even before update	20:17
wackl	hm, don't know. havent installed or changed anything	20:17
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DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: muhahaHAAAHAA	20:17
glass_	ahahah :DD	20:18
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DocScrutinizer51	sane usage of N900 style gadgets includes careful scrutinizing of something like load applet	20:19
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SpeedEvil	load applet is 3/4 awesome.	20:19
DocScrutinizer51	it's tiny but I watch it frequently	20:19
SpeedEvil	It would be 100% awesome if it understood cpufreq	20:19
woglinde	speedevil lol	20:19
DocScrutinizer51	lol	20:19
SpeedEvil	100% CPU at 250MHz != 100%@600MHz	20:20
DocScrutinizer51	it doesn,t?	20:20
DocScrutinizer51	ouch	20:20
SpeedEvil	I may have misinterpreted things - but it diddn't seem to	20:20
SpeedEvil	most stuff doesn't.	20:20
SpeedEvil	top or htop don't, ps doesn't	20:20
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DocScrutinizer51	well O% is zero percent at least. on any core clock	20:21
SpeedEvil	Well - yes.	20:21
SpeedEvil	It's a minor issue for that reason	20:21
cehteh	top -d 600 is all you need :P	20:22
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DocScrutinizer51	-d 600 huh?	20:22
SplasPood	feh, maemo really needs confirmation on shutdown... I always end up tapping that rather than changing the audio mode	20:23
cehteh	i hate it when a load-o-meter keeps the cpu awake	20:23
SpeedEvil	SplasPood: and I keep turning it off accidentally by pressing it too much	20:23
SplasPood	SpeedEvil: same	20:23
SplasPood	booting back up now ;)	20:23
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DocScrutinizer51	check tweakr	20:24
cehteh	seeing the cpu utilization of long-time processes is quite useful .. transient spikes are boring	20:24
jX	cehteh: It seemed as though the loadmeter actually slowed down other things too, like it took too many cycles to do it's thing so I uninstalled it.	20:24
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Stskeeps	wb jebba	20:24
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jX	oh, while people are here and awake. I installed openssh on my 900, but I can't su still, do I still need to do that bit with the flasher util or something?	20:25
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Stskeeps	jX: sudo gainroot, install rootsh	20:26
jX	ahh yeah, rd mode sitll, thanks.	20:26
hardaker	well, my script analyzing all the packages in dpkg finally finished while I was away.	20:27
woglinde	hi jebba	20:27
hardaker	2048 packages.	20:27
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hardaker	top 20 I had installed (of which I've just removed some):	20:28
hardaker	http://pastebin.com/m278f842f	20:28
hardaker	locales being the biggest	20:28
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps: not the other way round??	20:28
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: was correcting him	20:28
Stskeeps	rootsh will give you sudo gainroot capability	20:28
woglinde	damn	20:29
woglinde	debian introduced a circualr dependency chain with 2 python packages	20:29
wolf^	hardaker, how does this script look?	20:29
RST38h	If you are using FBReader, PLEASE VOTE: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fbreader/0.10.7-10/	20:29
hardaker	wolf^: lists each file in a package and does an lstat on it and adds up the size based on the partition the data is in.	20:29
woglinde	this prevents me to bring git-buildpackage easily to maemo	20:29
hardaker	it actually caculates totals for each FS but I'm only printing out /	20:30
SpeedEvil	RST38h: getting good!	20:30
wolf^	hardaker, nice overkill	20:30
RST38h	SpeedEvil: Well, it has got a few tweaks	20:30
DocScrutinizer51	woglinde: nice	20:30
hardaker	wolf^: it's the only way to be sure.	20:30
RST38h	optified it, at the very least	20:30
hardaker	woglinde: are you the one that packaged the other git packages?	20:30
hardaker	git-core?	20:30
SpeedEvil	RST38h: my remaining niggle is that it's tricky to use the screen to easily change pages. I'd like the top and bottom of the page to skip back and forward.	20:31
hardaker	(I think we simultaniously packaged it... I created the straight "git" one)	20:31
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: apropos tweaks. check out 'tweakr'	20:31
RST38h	SpeedEvil: Default config does exactly that	20:31
Mozillion	so.. THE question: am I the only one who didn't receive the update :)	20:31
jX	yes	20:31
wolf^	hardaker, 'rpm -qa --qf "%{SIZE} %{NAME}\n" \| sort -n' does the same ;)	20:32
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: "long powerpress: " (shutdown \| do nohing)	20:32
jX	we decided you didn't need it.	20:32
hardaker	if rpm, sure.	20:32
hardaker	I wouldn't be surprised if there is a dpkg equiv.	20:32
hardaker	but that won't work...	20:32
hardaker	that lists the size of the package regardless of partition.	20:32
hardaker	I'm only interested in space on /	20:32
wolf^	hardaker, but doesn't take different mounts into account and probably doesn't display real file usage	20:32
hardaker	right. mine does ;-)	20:32
hardaker	(though it doesn't count data created and not listed in the package)	20:33
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* RST38h sadly notices that nobody has voted for colEm =(		20:33
woglinde	rst whats colem?	20:33
Arkenoi	rst38h: i voted when you asked me last time	20:33
RST38h	woglinde: ColecoVision emulator	20:33
RST38h	Arkenoi: I know, thanks ...	20:33
wolf^	hardaker, that doesn't really count	20:33
RST38h	Arkenoi: It is a new release though, with a few fixes	20:33
wolf^	hardaker, you can always specify files as %ghost in rpm, and maybe some shmoo-foo also in dpkg	20:34
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: oooh - thanks	20:34
hardaker	wolf^: no, and they should have listed it as file to be cleaned up too. But then, they should have also put in maemo-optify :-P	20:34
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DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: yw	20:34
wazd_e63	RST38h: I want to vote)	20:34
RST38h	wazd: Ah get yourself an N900 already =)	20:35
RST38h	wazd: (from the US of course, no way anyone can afford one here)	20:35
woglinde	hm what was ColecoVision	20:35
SpeedEvil	RST38h: yes - but if you turn off hte 'cursor bar navigation' or whatever it's called, that messes that up, and the actual active areas are tiny	20:35
wazd_e63	rst38h: no way)	20:35
SpeedEvil	RST38h: I was meaning the entire top and bottom of the screen	20:35
wolf^	hardaker, maemo-optify, as in the magic script run during package building?	20:35
hardaker	yeah..	20:36
hardaker	does moving and symlinking	20:36
SpeedEvil	RST38h: and you have to turn it off - otherwise you keep moving to the wrong part of the book - IME	20:36
wazd_e63	Rst38h: we're picking DDP devices on saturday btw	20:36
red	Anyone had the Maemo 5 update erroring on "not enough space left on device"? I have more than 20MB free on rootfs.	20:36
wolf^	hardaker, but why? :>	20:36
wolf^	hardaker, --prefix is the correct way	20:36
wazd_e63	Rst38h: wanna go to spb for one day?)	20:36
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hardaker	red: yes.. I even just wrote a script to figure out what is taking all the room (I had 16M)	20:37
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: RST38h: related topic:: xchat scrolling	20:37
X-Fade	red: reboot	20:37
hardaker	wolf^: well, because --prefix still puts some things in the wrong place.	20:37
hardaker	go read up on what the script is doing and why...	20:37
X-Fade	red: Garbage collection only happens on boot. So that might give you a lot more room to play with.	20:37
hardaker	you're right that a lot of it could be done at install time by careful package args.	20:37
hardaker	optify is a hack	20:37
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RST38h	SpeedEvil: Sorry but I have no idea what your problem is.	20:38
wolf^	hardaker, not really interested in learning the ways of broken solutions to problems	20:38
RST38h	I have both touch paging and status bar navigation enabled. Works like a charm for me.	20:38
wolf^	hardaker, i guess you're talking about icons and desktop files	20:38
RST38h	There is a bit of a problem selecting data from the lists (you have to aim real carefully) but aside from that things work	20:38
wolf^	hardaker, much more elegant way would be to patch hildon-whatever to look into /opt/share/... for these	20:39
RST38h	If you tend to touch status bar accidentally, simply click the UNDO button (looks like left arrow)	20:39
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SpeedEvil	RST38h: which relies on you noticing you've hit the status bar - and then popping up the undo button.	20:41
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SpeedEvil	RST38h: if you were hoping to change page - noticing the page has changed to an unexpected page may not be instant.	20:41
red	I rebooted and 35MB free now	20:42
DocScrutinizer51	X-Fade: aaah that,s the name of the bugger. Garbage Collection :-D	20:42
RST38h	SpeedEvil: As I said, I do not have any idea what you are talking about	20:42
red	attempting to reinstall the update, ty X-Fade	20:42
RST38h	Do not want to mess things up? ==> Do not touch the status bar accidentally.	20:42
red	btw I see some controversial talk on the i-net about 3G vs wifi in terms of power consumption	20:42
RST38h	Cannot make yourself not to hit status bar? ==> Disable status bar browsing	20:42
red	if the wifit AP has power saving, wouldn't wifi drain less battery than being on 3G?	20:43
SpeedEvil	RST38h: I've done that - and the areas of the screen left sensitive for touch are tiny	20:43
red	and phone being idling in pocket, sometimes refreshing rss etc	20:43
SpeedEvil	RST38h: rechecking	20:43
RST38h	Do not want to disable status bar browsing AND cannot keep yourself from touching it accidentally ==> Disable touch paging and use zoom buttons	20:43
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RST38h	Sensitive areas of the screen are always exactly the same.	20:43
DocScrutinizer51	red: depends	20:43
RST38h	Upper half scrolls up, lower half scrolls down.	20:43
DocScrutinizer51	red: things like ARP may keep wifi busy while UMTS is idling	20:44
red	Whats your suggestion then	20:44
red	Keep auto hop to wifi off until I actually need speed? :p	20:44
red	I know my router has power saving atleast	20:45
DocScrutinizer51	no suggestion here :-D	20:45
red	d'oh	20:45
red	I guess I'll just have to test	20:45
mfinkle	anyone use xresponse on fremantle?	20:45
hardaker	wolf^: I agree (and sorry for the delay...; was on phone) There are better ways than what was done.	20:45
mfinkle	I'm trying to understand what it is outputting	20:45
hardaker	red: I just upgraded about 30 second sago and had 23.348 free	20:46
hardaker	wifi is much more power consuming.	20:46
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Mozillion	ah.. apt-get dist-upgrade DOES show the upgrade.. contrary to the app manager	20:47
hardaker	shouldn't be and I don't get it, but it is.	20:47
SpeedEvil	RST38h: unrelated - options->indicator->offset from edge is cut off at the edge	20:47
* ShadowJK wouldn't trust apt-get upgrade		20:47
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red	Guess I'll stay on my 3.6Mbit 3G then	20:48
red	not like it's that bad, just dislike the latency	20:48
hardaker	I use wifi all the time (note that there is an option to cut the power down to 1/10th; I didn't think it made a huge diff though)	20:48
hardaker	I only turn it off when I know I'm likely to be on all day, etc, and don't have near by power.	20:49
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johnsu01	in my experience 3g murders the battery and wifi is better (with polling off of course)	20:49
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johnsu01	is that crazy?	20:50
jX	no	20:50
jX	actually.	20:50
SpeedEvil	johnsu01: mine too	20:50
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hardaker	maybe it's the polling that's expensive	20:51
hardaker	?	20:51
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hardaker	does that mean it polls even when connected to a wifi in the first place (which'd be stupid)	20:51
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red	I got 5min poll intervall, guess I'll nudge it up :P	20:54
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red	didn't think it would be doing this when on the wifi	20:54
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trbs	I'm getting 'operation failed' (translated) on the camera application after the latest firmware update	20:57
trbs	is this a known problem ? (on n900)	20:57
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ShadowJK	nope, camera works for me	20:59
ShadowJK	still pcture or video?	20:59
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konttori	trbs: camera was not even touched with the ssu update	20:59
konttori	so, if you have a prob, it's unrelated.	21:00
konttori	you might want to reboot just to make sure	21:00
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trbs	konttori, thanks, then i'll try and find what else is going on	21:00
konttori	as that really reboots the dsp	21:00
trbs	konttori, yes i'll reboot first, good point :)	21:00
konttori	the dsp/sgx can go haywire sometimes.	21:01
SpeedEvil	RST38h: I'm unsure what's going on. Status bar disabled (though I see this without) - touch scrolling is very unreliable. I get a UI click - and nothing happens. Usually the bottom half-line of text will cause a scroll - when this is happening. Sometimes it works.	21:02
Macer	so looks like holywood turned sherlock holmes into one of the league of extraordinary gentlemen?	21:02
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RST38h	SpeedEvil: mv ~/.FBReader ~/.FBReader.old	21:02
SpeedEvil	RST38h: touching a point in the centre of the text lines - 1/3 or 2/3 down the screen occasionally works - but will usually stop working a few times later	21:02
trbs	konttori, reboot and it works fine again	21:03
RST38h	SpeedEvil: and restart FBReader	21:03
Macer	i'm waiting for him to shoot lasers from his eyes or something	21:03
SpeedEvil	RST38h: sorry - I should have thought of that	21:03
RST38h	You probably messed up the config	21:03
SpeedEvil	RST38h: I haven't edited it by hand	21:03
SpeedEvil	RST38h: but trying that	21:03
trbs	konttori, thanks, (maybe i should remove the cover and clean it to remove the hay :P )	21:03
tybollt	Macer: sigh so I shouldn't take the missus out to see it then?	21:04
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konttori	We did fix quite a lot of instalibility issues like that for pr1.1	21:04
SpeedEvil	RST38h: ok - starting - on the start document - first start with a blown away config - the zoom buttons scroll - touching the page does nothing	21:04
SpeedEvil	RST38h: (though I get haptic)	21:05
Macer	tybollt: well. avatar would be a better choice if you are taking a woman to the show	21:06
trbs	konttori, well if there's anything I can do too help :)	21:06
Macer	sherlock holmes is like... if you took sherlock holmes and gene spliced him with batman	21:06
Macer	it is more action than thought	21:06
greenfly	sherlock holmes reminded me of a scooby doo mystery	21:06
Macer	greenfly: hahaha	21:07
konttori	firt you need to get closer to what we develop on. PR1.1 is already a month behind the development	21:07
Arkenoi	btw fbreader expresses quite strange behavior sometimes: when i close it with [X] button, there is no yellow "saving configuration" and the book postition is set to some random value close to the beginning	21:07
tybollt	Macer: oh we've been to that one already and yeah it was :)	21:07
konttori	and you have pr1.0.1 which is 2 months away from pr1.1	21:07
tybollt	Macer: yuck :-\|	21:07
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konttori	ouch. I almost told you guys when pr1.1 will be out.	21:08
trbs	hehe	21:08
Arkenoi	and qt keyboard entry is expected to be fixed in 1.2 which is i think months away from now :-(	21:08
wiretapped	who is testing pr1.1? I mean, how does one become a community tester?	21:08
RST38h	Arkenoi: Again, I have never seen this happen	21:08
Macer	i mean cmon	21:08
konttori	I don't know. I suppose they were hand picked	21:08
Macer	sherlock holmes was literally dodging bullets	21:08
Macer	and why is it that movies always show bullets causing sparks?	21:08
ShadowJK	konttori: i cynically assumed from your blog post "when developers optify", which is like, never :P	21:08
Macer	lead doesn't spark like that	21:08
konttori	lol	21:09
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RST38h	those are depleted uranium bullets	21:09
RST38h	or tungsten	21:09
ShadowJK	51-44, math isn't si hard :x	21:10
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Arkenoi	copper-coated bullets from my air guns caused quite spectacular sparks from concrete	21:11
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SpeedEvil	RST38h: what firmware release are you on? I'm on the recent update	21:11
RST38h	green sparks?	21:11
RST38h	44.1	21:11
Macer	RST38h: no. blinding white sparks	21:12
Macer	heh	21:12
RST38h	that should be what?	21:12
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Arkenoi	nope, orange ones (btw that's really interesting - why not green?)	21:12
RST38h	thorium?	21:12
wazd_e63	They are sparkling cause it's cool) Ordinary life is so boring)	21:12
SpeedEvil	RST38h: 44.1 here too. Sigh.	21:13
konttori	44 is actually a special version with some hand picked fixes from 51.	21:13
jeez_	hi there! I've just updated my N900 to 44-1 firmaware but now my cellphone is not working anymore. on the "system tray" there is just an icon on a SIM card with a red line crossing it. Does anyone know what can be happening ?!	21:13
* Arkenoi still does not see the update!		21:13
RST38h	SpeedEvil: My bet is that you are doing something wrong	21:13
konttori	the 44 doesn't really reflect the date that the release was made on	21:13
odin_	jeez_, did the phone reboot after installing it ? did you get a yellow notification saying the "Operating System Update was Successful" ?	21:14
SpeedEvil	RST38h: ok - I'll uninstall blow away .FBreader - and reinstall	21:14
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RST38h	SpeedEvil: It is N900 and you are using the latest version from -testing?	21:14
SpeedEvil	RST38h: yes - updated a couple of days ago or yesterday IIRC	21:14
jeez_	odin_: Yes, and everything was reset on it...	21:14
wazd_e63	Same as "why standard mp5 in matrix hall scene smashes concrete like freaking tank cannon	21:14
SpeedEvil	...7.10	21:15
jeez_	I've checked on Settings (about) and it says that I'm using 44-1 now	21:15
RST38h	Speed: Open a book (with many pages) and tell me EXACTLY what it is you do not like	21:15
konttori	jeez_: that sounds again unrelated to the ssu, as the ssu didn't touch cellmo	21:15
odin_	jeez_, the phone puts itsemf into offline mode during the install but should re-enable after reboot... can you press power button and toggle offline mode ?	21:15
Stskeeps	jeez_: did you update through application manager or NSU?	21:15
RST38h	jeez: you either entered wrong SIM card code, or your sim card is somehow disconnected/missing/broken	21:15
SpeedEvil	RST38h: 95%+ of the time, pressing a point in the center of the lines of text, 1/3 or 2/3 down the page does not scroll.	21:15
RST38h	SpeedEvil: Ok. Press harder.	21:16
RST38h	Use your nail.	21:16
jeez_	Just did Offline mode on and off and it stills without gsm service =/	21:16
SpeedEvil	RST38h: I'm getting a haptic click though	21:16
jeez_	odin_: ^	21:16
RST38h	whatever. use the nail	21:16
jeez_	Stskeeps: I used the flasher-3.5	21:16
jeez_	on Mac OS	21:16
odin_	jeez_, maybe take SIM out and reboot, and put SIM back in and reboot	21:16
jeez_	trying	21:16
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wazd_e63	And glue that is used to attach marble plates to coloums can hold a whole damn elevator glued to it, but in matrix it can't hold even small plate)	21:17
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konttori	jeez_: oh, you used the flasher. ouch. I have a funny feeling you would need a newer flasher than 3.5	21:17
odin_	flasher is a little over the top for minor firware updates ?	21:17
konttori	it might need you to reflash with a later flasher (I am only guessing)	21:17
RST38h	SonyEriccsson lays a turd: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/se-faith-dailyiphoneblog.jpg	21:18
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Stskeeps	jeez_: where did you get the FIASCO image? :P thought that wasn't published	21:18
Arkenoi	looks like i am the only one who hasn't recieved ota update yet?	21:18
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konttori	Arkenoi: where do you live?	21:18
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: have you tried doing an explicit update in app-man?	21:18
jeez_	flasher v2.5.2 (Nov 20 2009) ... it was this one	21:18
Arkenoi	russia	21:18
Arkenoi	SpeedEvil, yep, nothing there	21:19
tybollt	RST38h: must be a shop?	21:19
konttori	Arkenoi: hmm... I'll check out tomorrow if that makes a difference.	21:19
tybollt	RST38h: that's totally an E61 >:)	21:19
konttori	cannot do it now though	21:19
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RST38h	tybollt: Butt ugly E61 running WinMo	21:19
davyg	does someone manage to sync zimbra account(contact/calendar...) with the n900 ?	21:19
tybollt	RST38h: word	21:20
tybollt	silly ovi.mobi, work damit :)	21:21
Lynoure	hmm, how much empty space in / does it take to be able to include the new maemo5 update? Keeps on complaining about there not being enough space (there is more than the package size)	21:25
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lardman\|home	eveningf	21:26
Stskeeps	evening lardman\|home	21:26
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* lardman\|home sees work being closed tomorrow		21:27
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tybollt	Lynoure: as said on various places... remove the two maemo extras and devel repos, add the update and readd the repos	21:28
jeez_	anyone from Nokia Maemo here ?	21:29
red	Any MediaBox users here?	21:30
red	I just added 5 folder onto my shelf	21:30
red	but how do I play from those? :p	21:30
Lynoure	tybollt: Thanks, will try.	21:31
SpeedEvil	RST38h: Still not changed it - pressing moderately harder - ~500g - or using a thumbnail does not make a difference. After removing, removing .FBreader, reinstalling	21:33
SpeedEvil	odd.	21:34
Stskeeps	er, this is going to sound embarassing, but is it possible to do web uploads to extras?	21:34
frals	Stskeeps: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php ?	21:35
Stskeeps	ah	21:35
Stskeeps	good	21:36
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andre__	jeez_: what would it change if somebody answered "yes"? :-P	21:37
frals	"whens pr1.1 coming?"	21:37
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andre__	when it's ready...	21:38
andre__	yeah, probably :-)	21:38
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frals	hiya RevdKathy	21:38
tybollt	frals: Well they like to keep us on the old sträckbänk, you know :)	21:38
RevdKathy	hiya frals - hiya all!	21:38
andre__	hi	21:38
red	is pycage on irc?	21:39
RevdKathy	hi andre_	21:39
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wazd_e63	RevdKathy: heya	21:44
RevdKathy	hiya wazd_e63	21:44
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RevdKathy	Oh God, this place iis starting to sound like an aol chat room!	21:44
Nitial	oh noes, where are the extra levels for angry birds? :o	21:44
tybollt	RevdKathy: me too	21:45
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SpeedEvil	Any users of fbreader for who page-up and page-down by tapping the page works just fine?	21:45
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wazd_e63	revdKathy: well, now it's time to determine is it good or bad =)	21:46
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xorAxAx	imagine if everybody here started greeting everybody else :)	21:47
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acidjazz	where can i go read about the updates/fixes in the new maemo patch i just got? :)	21:47
RevdKathy	Hi tybollt	21:47
xorAxAx	hi RevdKathy	21:47
FredrIQ	Hi everyone	21:47
RevdKathy	I start to feel like the community Mom - it's like the Waltons all over again!	21:48
xorAxAx	FredrIQ: thats cheating :)	21:48
RevdKathy	Hi xorAxAx	21:48
wazd_e63	Yeah, hi all, just in case :)	21:48
Stskeeps	RevdKathy for council 1/2010~!	21:48
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RevdKathy	I;m supposed to be finishing my Masters till May. But thanks for the compliment	21:48
RevdKathy	ok - how do I access usr/share/sounds?	21:49
xorAxAx	what are you studying, RevdKathy?	21:49
DocScrutinizer51	for u in $users: do /msg hello $u; done	21:49
RevdKathy	Studying? Consciousness and Transpersonal Psychology	21:49
SpeedEvil	Sounds like fun.	21:49
Stskeeps	RevdKathy: i'm sure you can write your thesis on maemo.org	21:49
Stskeeps	:P	21:49
frals	RevdKathy: what do you want to do with /usr/share/sounds?	21:50
RevdKathy	if only - I should be transcribing interviews but have too much of a headcole	21:50
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RevdKathy	I don't but that fool wants to edit his camera sounds and is on a one way track to a brick	21:50
fnordianslip	i've been trying to study unconsciousness, but I can never remember anything	21:50
xorAxAx	RevdKathy: then what did you mean by masters? :)	21:50
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red	timeless_mbp: I was using your translations on N900, after the firmware upgrade some names have changed (like Add/Remove -> App manager).	21:50
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red	Isn't your file in use any longer or why is that?	21:51
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xorAxAx	fnordianslip: wrong drugs	21:51
RevdKathy	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=40234	21:51
timeless_mbp	red: open settings>american english	21:51
timeless_mbp	it should show you 'mixed'	21:51
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timeless_mbp	select Native, ok, reboot	21:51
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red	Native Speaker?	21:51
RevdKathy	XorAxAx MSc	21:51
timeless_mbp	red: yep	21:51
xorAxAx	RevdKathy: in which major?	21:52
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timeless_mbp	red: sorry, this is the best i can do so far	21:52
fnordianslip	xorAxAx: Nope. The ones I have are obviously the right ones, whatever they are :)	21:52
red	alright, thanks :)	21:52
timeless_mbp	it's self healing, but not self diagnosing	21:52
red	sorry for what? :D	21:52
timeless_mbp	for not making it automatic	21:52
VDVsx	RevdKathy, what is your field of studies ? if I can know of course ;)	21:52
timeless_mbp	well, perhaps i should say it isn't self aware	21:52
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RevdKathy	It's psychology - transpersonal psychology and the nature of consciousness	21:52
red	well I didn't expect everything to be set up as it was after firmware update :)	21:52
timeless_mbp	it is self diagnosing, since it shows you the 'mixed' state	21:52
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xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: so you want it to be a part of the browser?	21:52
red	aye	21:52
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: ?	21:53
SpeedEvil	RST38h: Changing 'maximal stylus pressure to 1 - seems to have fixed it.	21:53
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: because you said sorry	21:53
xorAxAx	:)	21:53
FredrIQ	var %i = 1 \| while %i < $nick(#,0) { msg # hello, $nick(#,%i) $+ ! \| inc %i }	21:53
FredrIQ	MSL is nice, but some parts in its syntax is weird	21:53
xorAxAx	then you could have fixed it etc.	21:53
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timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: i just have to figure out 'how' to fix it	21:53
xorAxAx	RevdKathy: and, is it fun?	21:53
SpeedEvil	RST38h: I am not pressing unreasonably softly - perhaps some touchscreens report lighter touch pressure than others?	21:53
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timeless_mbp	the thing is, i don't really want to slow down the boot process	21:54
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timeless_mbp	and i'm not quite sure i want to actively mess with the way dpkg works	21:54
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RevdKathy	xorAxAx it was when I started. Now I'm 4 months from the end and bored. And I want to focus on maemo instead	21:54
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timeless_mbp	(i risk eating my own tail)	21:54
VDVsx	Remosi, there's a lot of space for good studies around OSS, but more in the Sociology field :)	21:54
angasuleN810	I'm guessing browserd is not restarted if I kill it, heh	21:54
xorAxAx	RevdKathy: my masters are kinda boring me as well	21:54
Jaffa	re	21:55
timeless_mbp	angasuleN810: on the n8x0? i can't remember the rules	21:55
RevdKathy	what's your study? xorAxAx	21:55
angasuleN810	should I just browserd & from a term?	21:55
wazd_e63	Vdvsx: do you need keynote layout btw?	21:55
timeless_mbp	for the n900 if you open browser, a browserd will come up	21:55
xorAxAx	computer science, RevdKathy	21:55
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wazd_e63	Vdvsx: I can send it to you tomorrow)	21:55
timeless_mbp	angasuleN810: for the n8x0 there's a service in /etc/something that you're supposed to use to start browserd iirc	21:55
angasuleN810	well, if I open browser, it will be updating forever	21:55
VDVsx	wazd_e63, of course I need, lol, thanks	21:55
RevdKathy	xorAxAx: I would have thought that was something ou could do alongside this work, no?	21:55
timeless_mbp	red: fwiw, the package should work w/ the first major update, but if you don't get an update from me before the second major update, then there's some risk that thing won't work by then	21:55
angasuleN810	do you remember which?	21:55
* VDVsx sent virtual goodies to wazd_e63 :)		21:55
timeless_mbp	but that seems incredibly unlikely :)	21:55
VDVsx	*sends	21:56
timeless_mbp	angasuleN810: the name isn't enciphered, you'll recognize it	21:56
xorAxAx	RevdKathy: which work? its supposed to be fulltime study	21:56
RevdKathy	your work on maemo, of course! xorAxAx - or isn't everyone as obsessed as I am?	21:56
xorAxAx	RevdKathy: sure, i am. eagerly waiting for my n900	21:57
RevdKathy	:D	21:57
xorAxAx	should arrive tomorrow	21:57
RevdKathy	xorAxAx - how exciting!	21:57
xorAxAx	makes me forget all my uni obligations	21:57
angasuleN810	tablet-browser-daemon	21:58
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timeless_mbp	angasuleN810: see, that wasn't hard :)	21:58
SpeedEvil	RST38h: max of 6 seems to be maximum for it to behave sanely here	21:58
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angasuleN810	it wasn't so easy either, too many files in /etc/init.d :-P	21:58
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angasuleN810	midori seems fast, but the UI doesn't feel as good	21:59
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angasuleN810	I'm having memory issues, something seems to be leaking	21:59
xorAxAx	RevdKathy: and, whats the most impressive thing you have learned about consciousness?	22:00
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RevdKathy	xorAxAx Mostly that we dont actually have any idea what it is, or how it interacts with our physical reality	22:00
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DocScrutinizer51	RevdKathy: hehehe	22:01
xorAxAx	hehe, so you know that you dont know, not bad :)	22:01
Arkenoi	btw "spectrum" in media player widget is just random bullshit ;-)	22:01
SpeedEvil	Umm - the result of some dirty water thinking it's special?	22:01
wazd_e63	Arkenoi: yep	22:02
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wazd_e63	Arkenoi: 3 frame animation)	22:02
RevdKathy	yeah - science claims to know so much but basic questions like 'what exactly is consciousness - is it a side effect of brain or something completely separate? we don't have an answer	22:02
Wolfie	science claims nothing ;)	22:02
Wolfie	it's the scientists	22:02
SpeedEvil	RevdKathy: well - in the absence of anyone proving ESP or ...	22:02
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wazd_e63	revdKathy: so, you actually spent 5 years on studying the thing that nobody gives a damn about?)	22:03
RevdKathy	fair point Wolfie - though actually it's les the scientists than the press and popular stuff that follows and like nice black and white answers	22:03
Wolfie	what's scary, in my mind, is that scientists have apparently not yet been able to explain why exactly ice is slippery	22:03
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Arkenoi	Wolfie: isn't it quite simple or am i missing something?	22:04
SpeedEvil	Wolfie: it's the layer of water formed by friction as you apply a load to it	22:04
jX	indeed	22:04
angasuleN810	speedevil, nope, apparently	22:04
Wolfie	and that the theory behind why ice skates work isn't exactly as we have been taught in school - the numbers don't appear to mach up	22:04
RevdKathy	wazd_e63 given that whether cosnciousness is able to exist apart from physical reality is a pretty big question, I'd say it's not time waste d- 3 years, anyway	22:04
SpeedEvil	or pressure causing the phase of water that's preferred to be water not ice.	22:04
GeneralAntilles	Which doesn't form below about -50°F	22:04
SpeedEvil	RevdKathy: especially given that we all find out sooner or later.	22:05
angasuleN810	apparently there is always a water layer	22:05
xorAxAx	RevdKathy: what is transpersonal psychology about?	22:05
Wolfie	angasuleN810: yeah, that's one theory, but i guess there's no proof of that yet, either	22:05
RevdKathy	Yes, but some of us would like to know before then, SpeedEvil	22:05
SpeedEvil	Microscale effects are a bitch.	22:05
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Arkenoi	revdkathy: so did you get some interesting directions to watch more closely, at least?	22:05
angasuleN810	I want psychohistory!	22:05
jX	ice is slippery because god says so. OBVIOUSLY.	22:06
jX	we just need to find the bible pages here he said it.	22:06
SpeedEvil	Yes we know how ice works. In the large scale. To actually work out why it's slippery can in some cases require horribly, horribly detailed simulation.	22:06
Wolfie	anyhow, I might be totally wrong or just have outdated info. I happened to read this in an article somewhere	22:06
angasuleN810	Wolfie, even if true, that doesn't tell us why	22:06
RevdKathy	There's actually some very interesting stats coming in from some of the DMILS tests	22:06
Wolfie	angasuleN810: why what?	22:06
SpeedEvil	Much like conciousness emerging from chemistry.	22:06
RST38h	Consciousness is overrated anyway	22:06
jX	SpeedEvil: That's assuming cocsciousness is real.	22:06
angasuleN810	Wolfie, why that layer exists	22:07
RST38h	It's a memetic virus	22:07
Wolfie	angasuleN810: yeah	22:07
jX	it's entirely possible it's simply an amalgamation of chemical reactions.	22:07
RevdKathy	well, indeed jX - is it real? What do we mean when we say we're conscious?	22:07
SpeedEvil	jX: It's not. IMO.	22:07
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wazd_e63	Wolfie: well, this info is outdated for like, mm, 300 years))	22:07
DocScrutinizer51	angasuleN810: there,s actually always a film of water. water molecules aggregating to ice crystals is a dynamic balanced process	22:07
* angasuleN810 whacks RST with a club		22:07
RevdKathy	Can you be conscious without being conscious of something?	22:07
angasuleN810	I need a tab key!	22:07
Wolfie	wazd_e63: well, the article was written within the last 5 years...	22:07
SpeedEvil	Conciousness is an illusion brought on by ego.	22:07
Arkenoi	"brain is something that makes us think that we think"	22:07
jX	RevdKathy: We have yet to clearly define consciousness even.	22:07
lupine_85	angasuleN810: forget tab, \| is where it's at	22:07
lupine_85	my N900 misses that sorely	22:08
angasuleN810	lupine, oh, don't remind me :-(	22:08
wazd_e63	Ohnoes, where's the eject button :D	22:08
DocScrutinizer51	angasuleN810: that,s why ice is melting when you place salt on it. you change the equilibrum much like you do on osmosis	22:08
xorAxAx	when we are conscious, what are we conscious of?	22:08
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* lupine_85 was intensely amused to discover /floppy on the filesystem		22:08
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jX	xorAxAx: If you're a man, usually boobs.	22:08
RST38h	"I always thought that the brain is the most important part of my body, until I recognized who is telling me this"	22:08
xorAxAx	jX: indeed	22:09
Wolfie	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice#Slipperiness	22:09
xorAxAx	jX: how about women?	22:09
jX	xorAxAx: How their boobs look.	22:09
RevdKathy	hang on - sis has pc crisis	22:09
angasuleN810	manboobs? moobs!	22:09
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Arkenoi	revdkathy, actually that's quite interesting, could you please be a bit more specific about exactly what did that 5 years give you?	22:11
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wazd_e63	In fact I understand that all of you are just illusions of my damadged brain and I'm lying in coma after plane crash :)	22:11
konttori	sounds like one iain banks novel	22:11
wazd_e63	Damaged*	22:11
RST38h	wazd: Worse than that	22:12
RST38h	wazd: We are all ASCII characters scrolling in a window	22:12
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wazd_e63	konttori: see?) my brain summoned you to tell me that I'm wrong :D	22:12
RST38h	wazd: We can all be computers for all you know	22:12
RST38h	or virii	22:12
wazd_e63	Rst38h: that's reversed chineese alphabet .)	22:13
RST38h	or a bunch of dogs jumping on the keyboards	22:13
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* RST38h just read "Blind Sight" by Peter Watts and feels like trashing consciousness for a bit		22:14
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wazd_e63	Rst38h: worth reading?)	22:15
* Stskeeps wonders why extras uploader requires a ssh key.		22:15
fnordianslip	Stskeeps: dput uses ssh	22:16
Stskeeps	well, extras assistant	22:16
RST38h	wazd: Yep, but removes last bits of faith into humans	22:16
Stskeeps	fnordianslip: well yes	22:16
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Stskeeps	fnordianslip: but the web uploader?	22:16
wazd_e63	Rst38h: I need something to kill 8 hours)	22:16
fnordianslip	oh, fek knows	22:16
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RST38h	wazd: I would recommend "The Muse of Fire" then	22:16
RST38h	wazd: email address?	22:16
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tstaerk\|TV	Mek: my body is full of endorphines :)	22:18
Mek	tstaerk\|TV: why? :)	22:19
tstaerk\|TV	Mek: thanks to you - you gave me a hint how to compile on maemo	22:19
wazd_e63	Rst38h: drew.zhilin@gmail.com	22:19
tstaerk\|TV	and it works :)	22:19
tstaerk\|TV	thanks :)	22:19
Mek	tstaerk\|TV: ah, nice :)	22:19
tstaerk\|TV	the trick with qemu	22:19
tstaerk\|TV	Mek: okay if I put this into my wiki?	22:19
RevdKathy	Sorry - sister has just had her pc repaired and she's even less competent than I - needed some support	22:19
Mek	tstaerk\|TV: sure, of course that's fine	22:19
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tstaerk\|TV	that's all I wanted to say, bye :)	22:20
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RST38h	wazd: Done	22:20
wazd_e63	Rst38h: thanks	22:20
RST38h	wazd: let me know when/if you need more	22:20
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sshinobi	I'm trying to unpack a .deb file from a memory card onto the same memory card, and I keep getting the error: Unable to open/create status database lockfile: No space left on device.	22:24
sshinobi	I've got half a gig on the stick.	22:24
sshinobi	Or is it referring to my N800?	22:24
frals	need testers/voters for http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/fapn/0.5 please :)	22:24
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sshinobi	Also, whenever I try to bring up my App manager, the operation keeps failing, and it says I have no packages installed.	22:25
ml-N900	sshinobi: probably the N800, where the rootfs is located	22:25
sshinobi	ah... ok, that makes a bit more sense. What about my App Manager failing?	22:26
sshinobi	any way to fix that?	22:26
ml-N900	same way you'd fix the other error	22:26
ml-N900	free up space on your root partition	22:27
wazd_e63	Rst38h: well, I'm definitely not diagonal reader, so I won't need something new for a while)	22:27
RST38h	wazd: A'ok =)	22:27
sshinobi	Forgive me, I'm rather new to linux. I'm not able to do that graphically, since my app manager was my only way of clearing up space. Can I do that from command line?	22:27
RST38h	You will probably like it then =)	22:27
sshinobi	or can I do it from file manager?	22:28
ml-N900	sshinobi: I would take careful stock of what you did previously, and just reflash	22:29
ml-N900	manually removing stuff is generally hazardous	22:29
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sshinobi	most of my stuff is from the repository. So I can just reflash the OS and I'd be good?	22:30
angasuleN810	sshinobi, try deleting some user guides, then apt-get clean, then the system should kind of work	22:30
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Stskeeps	A creative use of MADDE: A new way for theme makers to make themes for Maemo5: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/creative-use-of-madde-new-way-for-theme.html	22:30
Stskeeps	joppu, wazd_e63, AndrewFBlack-Wor ^	22:31
ml-N900	I haven't used the 8XX devices, so I can't help much on recovery of one	22:31
angasuleN810	one of the first things I did was to move the system to the 2gb, 256mb is too small	22:31
sshinobi	weird, I just cleared up some space, and now my App manager is working fine.	22:33
ml-N900	right	22:34
ml-N900	it couldn't create a lockfile, so couldn't read the database	22:35
ml-N900	not safely at least	22:35
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sshinobi	That makes sense.	22:35
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sshinobi	Now, I'm trying to download another file, and before it even starts I get "Operation Failed".	22:36
ml-N900	I imagine the issue is similar to the issues with space we have on the N900	22:36
ml-N900	probably ran out of space again	22:37
sshinobi	How much space is available on the device? I think I read somewhere 256 megs?	22:37
ml-N900	the rootfs is 256MB, but apps are stored in /opt, which is on a 2GB partition on the 32GB device	22:38
Wolfie	off the top of my head, it's a 16gb device, of which 2gb is reserved for software	22:38
Wolfie	ml-N900: was that 32gb with or without memcard expansion?	22:38
ml-N900	without	22:38
Wolfie	ok, my bad then.	22:38
ml-N900	I have a 16GB sdhc card, for 48GB total	22:38
Wolfie	is it technically possible for a future firmware update to expand that 2gb to something bigger?	22:39
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angasuleN810	2gb is quite reasonable	22:40
cehteh	that doesnt need a firmware update	22:40
cehteh	just reparitioning	22:40
angasuleN810	Wolfie, you could do it without much trouble, I guess	22:40
Wolfie	2gb is pretty much. But 2 out of 46 is pretty puny :)	22:40
ml-N900	Wolfie: not without risking user data	22:40
angasuleN810	Wolfie, you won't be installing -dev stuff, I hope	22:40
angasuleN810	or -debug	22:40
Wolfie	cehteh: i wouldn't trust myself nor mr. Murphy to do such a thing	22:40
ml-N900	you could, manually though	22:40
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Wolfie	nod	22:41
cehteh	Wolfie: backup before you do :P	22:41
Wolfie	naturally ;)	22:41
Wolfie	well, i'm not running out of those two gigs just yet.	22:41
angasuleN810	Wolfie, you should always keep backups :-D	22:42
Wolfie	angasuleN810: should, yes :)	22:42
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Wolfie	i'm just a lost case when it comes to backups. I have trouble to remember backing up with Time Machine, and that's a lot said	22:42
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angasuleN810	I guess word completion is more useful in suomi than english heh	22:43
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VDVsx	Stskeeps, "Currently you will need to generate a SSH key, I'm investigating why you need this to upload through the web." you don't need this, if you use the extras-uploader	22:43
Stskeeps	VDVsx: i thought so too	22:43
VDVsx	as described in your workflow	22:43
Stskeeps	VDVsx: i just went through the steps for extras assistant and it refused to let me pass on without a ssh key	22:44
VDVsx	Stskeeps, humm, strange, I think I never upload a ssh key and I can upload stuff, do you have your packages signed ?	22:45
Stskeeps	VDVsx: i haven't even signed anything yet..	22:45
Stskeeps	sec, let me screenshot	22:45
zulo	hello, i've installed qt 4.6 tp2 on scratchbox after following the wiki instructions, but when I try to compile an example I get errors as "QMaemo5<Something>" not found. But I'm even using qmake from the tp folder, any idea how to fix this? thanks	22:45
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Stskeeps	VDVsx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/extras.png	22:48
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VDVsx	Stskeeps, ah, probably this changed or I don't remember, since it is a one time step :)	22:49
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VDVsx	Stskeeps, anyway, is that key used for something ? :D	22:50
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Stskeeps	VDVsx: well no, but asking a graphics designer to make a SSH key is like asking grandma to fix your blinking VCR	22:50
Stskeeps	:P	22:50
VDVsx	Stskeeps, true	22:50
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VDVsx	VDVsx, good article btw :)	22:51
apol	my n900 says I have to update but asks me to do from Nokia PC Suite (or smth like that). Can I do it from linux or OTA?	22:51
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Stskeeps	VDVsx: ta, even if you did applaud yourself ;)	22:53
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VDVsx	Stskeeps, lolol	22:53
ml-N900	apol: did you do anything unusual to your packages/kernel?	22:54
Tusker	heya guys, I'm trying to get esbox2 working with vmware player, but it has trouble detecting that the VM is running, even though I can SSH to it etc	22:54
Tusker	any idea why this would be the case?	22:54
apol	ml-N900: nope	22:54
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Stskeeps	VDVsx: that said, i think it would probably be possible to generate .dsc and tar.gz without too much hassle without MADDE.	22:55
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Tusker	anyone here use esbox and vmware player ?	23:03
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DocScrutinizer51	ok. definitely 1.0.1 didn,t fix the frontcam madness	23:18
DocScrutinizer51	mirror still is like mondrian	23:18
SpeedEvil	:/	23:19
SpeedEvil	what about a more recent kernel	23:19
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SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Repositories	23:19
DocScrutinizer51	more recent than todays's update?	23:19
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer-8: 44-1 is not really an update	23:20
timeless_mbp	it's just a bridge	23:20
timeless_mbp	please don't expect it to fix anything	23:20
Undrwater	i feel like i'm in #openmoko	23:20
DocScrutinizer51	k	23:20
timeless_mbp	Undrwater: do i want to know what that means?	23:20
Undrwater	timeless_mbp: just the folks here...frequent there too	23:20
DocScrutinizer51	so I'm feelin kinda useless as a tester	23:21
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer-8: are you playing w/ my strings?	23:21
timeless_mbp	they want testers	23:21
timeless_mbp	(and also suggestions to replace any longer string)	23:21
DocScrutinizer51	aaah now you almost got me	23:21
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Tusker	anyone here using esbox2 ?	23:22
timeless_mbp	only almost/	23:22
timeless_mbp	?	23:22
DocScrutinizer51	already couldn't refuse that tempation for twinklephone. for german though	23:22
DocScrutinizer51	my english is really really poor	23:22
RST38h	"Exactly, 12,000 goats are teleported every second after a fresh reboot. TWELVE THOUSAND GOATS, people."	23:22
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DocScrutinizer51	RST38h: gimme the number of your dealer please	23:24
Undrwater	RST38h: is that an acceptable collateral damage?	23:24
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DocScrutinizer51	Undrwater: what,s wrong with #openmoko??	23:25
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RST38h	Doc: Gizmodo.	23:27
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jebba	SpeedEvil: my kernel is based on the identical source that nokia ships so i wont have a more recent mirror or anything	23:27
SpeedEvil	jebba: I was unsure.	23:28
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Stskeeps	jebba: random fact, my OBS built kernel modules insert fine into maemo kernel	23:28
SpeedEvil	jebba: ships and is on images - may not be the same	23:28
jebba	Stskeeps: OBS?	23:28
jebba	ah, suse build service	23:28
Stskeeps	(ubuntu toolchain)	23:29
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jebba	Stskeeps: dunno if you saw it, but the latest kernel i did is "the whole kitchen sink"--cryptsetup (dmcrypt), NAT, IPv6, etc.	23:30
Stskeeps	:nod:	23:30
jebba	even RAID :)	23:30
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Stskeeps	in modules i presume	23:30
jebba	ya, RAID modules. The dmcrypt stuff i did statically should someone want to boot root fs encrypted	23:30
b-man17	jebba: wow, nice :)	23:31
jebba	(which actually adds a TODO for me)	23:31
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jebba	perhaps even in bootmenu or somewhere nearby a place to enter password to decrypt could be added. Unscrewing the keymap would be essential for that though. That thwarted me ;)	23:32
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Stskeeps	:nod:	23:33
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Stskeeps	we should start adding usb recovery to bootmenu	23:34
Stskeeps	it was so bloody handy on n8x0	23:34
b-man17	indeed	23:34
jebba	only think i can think of for recovery is to boot into Mer then fix from there.	23:35
Stskeeps	jebba: nah, utelnetd before anything starts in maemo5 is very handy too	23:35
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jebba	i'm not sure about the keymap. Fixing it with console-tools may be easier than in the kernel, but if it's not in the kernel, its not available "real" early.	23:36
jebba	oh ya, i'd take that too ;)	23:36
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BluesLee	how can i filter those installed apps from the extras-devel repo?	23:36
Stskeeps	did we figure out how to use g_nokia for usbnet yeT?	23:36
jebba	Stskeeps: can you give me a hint which file mounts the NAND in mer?	23:37
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Stskeeps	jebba: it doesn't :)	23:37
Stskeeps	jebba: bootmenu pivot roots / to /mnt/initfs	23:37
jebba	Stskeeps: ah, i put it in there, but then i thought i saw some comment from you along the lines of "lesson learned today, netconsole doesn't work and no gadget or somesuch"	23:38
Stskeeps	jebba: netconsole requires a interface that can be polled and g_serial doesn't work as a console=	23:38
Stskeeps	so we can't use netconsole over g_ether	23:38
jebba	g_ether ?	23:38
Stskeeps	usbnet	23:38
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Stskeeps	and we can't point kernel to spit out kernel output / default console on g_serial (serial gadget)	23:40
lupine_85	ho de hum, nokia are remarkably EULA-tastic	23:40
Stskeeps	lupine_85: could be worse	23:40
lupine_85	all I wanted was a compiler :D	23:40
lupine_85	Stskeeps: indeed, they could be violating GPL, like another manufacturer I know	23:41
RevdKathy	Sorry I crashed out onto the phone (blooming sister and her pc) - we must continue another night	23:41
Stskeeps	lupine_85: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0 :P	23:41
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lupine_85	heh. I'm grabbing the SDK	23:41
RevdKathy	I am taking my stuffy nose and cough to a warm bed	23:41
Stskeeps	RevdKathy: IRC is all about idlin'	23:41
RevdKathy	'night all!	23:41
RevdKathy	yeah - I like it in here - feels companionals Stskeeps	23:42
lupine_85	(and I'm a little annoyed that it insists on installing in /)	23:42
Stskeeps	if you're annoyed at it now, wait till you have to use it	23:42
Stskeeps	:P	23:42
lupine_85	speaking of which - anyone know how likely the phone is to crash and burn if I change my user to lupine ?	23:42
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jebba	hmm, Stskeeps idea on how to mount the root fs in Mer then? I must be out of it right now cuz i thought it was there.	23:42
Stskeeps	quite	23:42
lupine_85	it'd make my sshing life easier	23:42
Stskeeps	jebba: root fs being maemo5 rootfs?	23:42
lupine_85	(also, everything seems to be chmod'ed 777 - wtf?)#	23:43
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jebba	lupine_85: put something in your ~/.ssh you will regret changing username from what ive heard of some packaging tricks people want to do. Or at least leave a symlink....	23:43
jebba	Stskeeps: ya	23:43
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Stskeeps	jebba: did you have a mnt/initfs dir in your mer rootfs?	23:43
jebba	lupine_85: VFAT permissions don't barely exist	23:43
jebba	Stskeeps: ya, that's why i thought it was there.	23:43
lupine_85	....it's VFAT?	23:43
* lupine_85 checks		23:43
jebba	lupine_85: ~user/MyDocs is	23:44
Stskeeps	jebba: hmmm	23:44
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Stskeeps	jebba: that's kinda weird	23:44
jebba	ah, so it's mounting that at the initial boot? lemme boot into it and see wtf 1 sec sry	23:44
Stskeeps	at the very first time it mounts to boot	23:44
Stskeeps	:P	23:44
lupine_85	well, that's unimportant	23:44
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jebba	I like how the indexer/thumbnailers like to index all of Mer too gah.	23:45
lupine_85	ah, permissions on / are correct	23:46
lupine_85	it's just /home that's borked	23:46
ljp	TrustedUI	23:46
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ljp	ermmm.. sorry. wrong window :)	23:46
lupine_85	(and to anyone considering clever packaging tricks that break a standard linux install, I will hunt you down and kill you)	23:46
jebba	doh, forgot to put in R&D mode.... Didn't you say you had a workaround for that now?	23:46
lupine_85	and enjoy it, too	23:47
* lupine_85 is kind of hoping to be able to create multiple users and add a password screen, ftw		23:47
GeneralAntilles	Hrm, emailed Sygic about not abusing the maemo.org logo and never got a reply.	23:48
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jebba	lupine_85: have you seen /opt yet? heh	23:49
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lupine_85	I'm not sure I want to...	23:50
* lupine_85 looks		23:50
jebba	you're gonna love this one.	23:51
jebba	lupine_85: search for "optification". It will take a week or two to recover.	23:51
* DocScrutinizer51 hands a M134D to lupine_85 for hunting purposes		23:51
lupine_85	that is pretty nasty	23:53
DocScrutinizer51	lol	23:53
lupine_85	so when they say it's linux, they mean, it's a bunch of crap hacked on top of linux ;)	23:53
DocScrutinizer51	euphemism of the week	23:53
jebba	lupine_85: oh, it's definitely linux, but it's got a lot of cruft to hold it all together mixed with some decisions that weren't very sound (e.g. optification being the worst). And some key closed bits.	23:54
DocScrutinizer51	lupine_85: seems developing for small devices (with twice the power of my last laptop) is a general absolutionfor those hacks	23:55
lupine_85	I think. I really really think. They need better linux engineers	23:55
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GeneralAntilles	lupine_85, their Linux engineers are plenty competent.	23:56
GeneralAntilles	lupine_85, blame managers.	23:56
lupine_85	I guess they never heard of unionfs	23:56
GeneralAntilles	lupine_85, actually, they have.	23:56
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GeneralAntilles	lupine_85, but there wasn't time to integrate it.	23:56
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lupine_85	scary	23:56
jebba	a manager decided for optification? hmm. Would be interesting to look at the old threads	23:56
GeneralAntilles	jebba, speaking generally. :)	23:56
* GeneralAntilles shouldn't jump in on an emotional issue, anyway.		23:57
jebba	GeneralAntilles: any idea what timeframe this was discussed? on maemo-devel?	23:57
lupine_85	see, a manager who decides between optification and unionfs isn't a manager in my view, he's an engineer who happens to manage engineers too	23:57
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GeneralAntilles	lupine_85, nevermind.	23:57
lupine_85	that, or meddling in stuff s/he has no business meddling in	23:57
Stskeeps	lupine_85: unionfs is shit when dealing when debian like systems	23:57
GeneralAntilles	"they" is the pronoun you're looking for. :)	23:57
Stskeeps	after a couple of SSU's, most of the stuff would be outside unionfs	23:57
Stskeeps	err, the nand	23:57
DocScrutinizer51	well, 1985 Siemens managers decided we (the engineers) had to do the whole fab CIM in COBOL	23:57
lupine_85	well, I'm assuming they need to keep their core firmware gubbins somewhere physically separate to installable stuff, hence why using optification/unionfs at all	23:58
lupine_85	TBH neither would be my first choice for any system	23:58
Macer	why is linux so strange with the fonts in X?	23:59
lupine_85	still, I wasn't around for the discussions, so I don't know the rationale	23:59
Macer	ms imperialism? :)	23:59

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