IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-01-12

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Macerorangey: so was ryan haha00:00
GeneralAntillesalterego, did you put your name the wiki page for loaners?00:00
orangeyat least you didn't have the bathroom sex guy00:00
Macerhahaha... his comments are awesome though. i just busted out laughing when i saw them00:00
alteregoGeneralAntilles: no, what wiki page?00:00
Macer"I'm blacker than Barack Obama. I shined shoes. I grew up in a five-room apartment. My father had a little laundromat in a black community not far from where we lived. I saw it all growing up."00:01
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GeneralAntillesalterego, hang on, let me dig it up.00:01
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GeneralAntillesalterego, wiki's down, apparently.00:03
GeneralAntillesalterego, I'll toss it to you later.00:04
alteregoCheers, much appreciated.00:04
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alteregoLooks like maemo.org is down00:04
mtdanybody know where the source code for the modest email client included on the n900 is?00:04
alteregoOh wait, back now.00:04
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alteregowiki's back Gen00:04
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sermadcool thanks - I've got a preproduction N900 and I'm going through the flashing process - I follow the wiki but it doesnt flash - the error I get is this - To flash the bootloader, you have to supply the X-Loader image00:05
GeneralAntillesalterego, http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue00:05
sermadThis was the cmd line I used -> flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_ PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R00:06
alteregoGeneralAntilles: thank you very much.00:06
juke__is there a gtkmozembed in pymaemo ?00:06
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* mtd finds https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=900:07
Stskeepsmtd: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0 as well has it00:08
mtdStskeeps: thanks.00:09
woglindejuke__ dont you need xulrunner for it?00:09
mtdit appears I really wanted to find the MailfoExchange source code, unfort.00:09
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MaemohammadAGLMAO @ angry birds00:11
MaemohammadAGi love it haha00:12
alteregoGeneralAntilles: There's not many people on that page, how long has it been available, and, have people been successful or is it a work in progress?00:12
sermadSo has anyone experience my flashing error at all?00:12
caotic_So is there an official changelog for the 1.2009.44-1.002 firmware, I only find forum rants.00:12
ifreqcaotic_: its mostly a bridge patch before 1.100:13
GeneralAntillesalterego, Quim's still working on it.00:13
alteregoCool,00:13
MaemohammadAGifreq the themes don't appear to be on the store anymore00:14
caotic_So I am guessing no specific fixes or stuff like that ?00:14
ifreqMaemohammadAG: oh noes and i removed those!! :P00:14
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alteregoWell, I hope it pulls through, even if I don't succeed, the karma points scheme was a flawed idea to begin with imo00:14
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MaemohammadAGlmao, someone doesn't like that stuff, and we all know what that means (especially if he's a male) :p00:15
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Jef91How does the easy-deb-chroot package in the extra-testing work?00:15
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ifreqJef91: easily00:15
GeneralAntillesalterego, well, it wouldn't have been bad if they hadn't set the threshold so high.00:15
MaemohammadAGJef91, you install both packages, dl the image and run the part you want00:15
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MaemohammadAGas in terminal/LXDE00:16
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Jef91Ahh so it sets up a dualboot?00:16
SpeedEvilI'd love to know what the expected last quarter sales were for the n90000:16
alteregoGeneralAntilles: well, was it arbitrarily picked or did they work it out from the top 300 or so members ;)00:16
SpeedEviland q1201000:16
GeneralAntillesalterego, it ended up being the top 180 or so.00:16
alteregoIs that all?00:17
alteregoI thought it was 350 last time.00:17
SpeedEvilalterego: they hated the 301st person.00:17
alteregoHeh00:17
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alteregoWhat about the summit loaners? There were about 300 of those I guess.00:17
alteregoHas it turned into a perm loan?00:17
alteregoI was so gutted I went to Iceland Airwaves that weekend :(00:18
Stskeepsi still assume i have to hand in mine in april00:18
alteregoRight,00:19
alteregoI wonder what they'll do with them, seems a shame really, to waste them down.00:19
alteregoStskeeps: do you have two? Were you in the DDP?00:19
Stskeepsi was in ddp but never applied.00:19
Stskeepsprobably get real data on wear,tear and usage00:20
alteregoDamnit, why didn't you give me your code! :P00:20
Stskeepscos it was tied to my perona00:20
Stskeepspersona00:21
Jef91anyone else try this other webrowser that is in extra-testing? is it any good?00:21
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ShadowJKwhich?00:23
ifreqseems all paid stuff has been removed from ovi MaemohammadAG00:24
ifreqatleast according to search00:24
MaemohammadAGinteresting00:24
MaemohammadAGJef91, no it sets up kind of a virtual machine00:25
MaemohammadAGthat runs inside maemo00:25
MaemohammadAGso if you ctrl backspace ull be in the dashboard00:25
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Jef91MaemohammadAG thats pretty sweet! and it runs deb applicatiohns then? any idea how well it works?00:26
Jef91applications*00:26
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MaemohammadAGit works well00:27
MaemohammadAGit has synaptics00:27
MaemohammadAGso you can install from the debian repos00:27
caotic_anyone experiencing lagyness in the n900 after the update ?00:27
MaemohammadAGand you can use dpkg00:27
MaemohammadAGcaotic_, US device?00:27
Jef91omg thats sweet! can it install to my fat32 partition or will it take up space in my rootfs/home00:27
ml-N900my device has been quite snappy00:28
caotic_MaemohammadAG: yes00:28
* MaemohammadAG raises his hand00:28
MaemohammadAGml-N900, non-us device?00:29
ml-N900waiting on the major update to see if Nokia has fixed the reboot issue00:29
ml-N900no, US device00:29
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caotic_After phone crashed on me, it sems like is back to normal ...00:29
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ShadowJKcheck the bugzilla bug about the crashes to see which version it's fixed in/if?00:29
ccookeGah! Now my wife's n900 has a broken microusb port00:31
MaemohammadAGcaotic_, seems to lag a bit, but i can live with that00:31
ccookeThis is starting to get a little silly00:31
MaemohammadAGit's not like it crashes or anything00:31
MaemohammadAGccooke, broken?00:31
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* ShadowJK thought his was snappier, but that's most likely placebo and freshly booted environment00:32
ccookeMaemohammadAG: broken.00:32
MaemohammadAGi got that, but how is it broken?00:32
SplasPoodwow, WC2 on the N900 is actually playable00:32
MaemohammadAGwc2?00:33
ifreqSplasPood: wc2?00:33
MaemohammadAGhaha00:33
juke__i can't activate red pill mode anyone can help me, i try to install developpement library00:33
ShadowJKiirc that was playable on P133?00:33
SplasPoodifreq: warcraft200:33
MaemohammadAGjuke__, dpkg -i (deb file)00:33
ccookeMaemohammadAG: the device won't charge and the usb socket is a little bit wobbly. This was the prelude to my own n900's microusb socket falling out on the 1st.00:33
MaemohammadAGin terminal00:33
MaemohammadAGwith superuser privs00:33
ccooke(usb connection doesn't work, of course)00:33
MaemohammadAGoh my00:33
* MaemohammadAG gets a bid worried00:34
MaemohammadAGnokia should've used the 2mm connector00:34
redeemanSplasPood: stratagus?00:34
SpeedEvilthey can't00:34
MaemohammadAGto avoid problems and enable otg00:34
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MaemohammadAGSpeedEvil, why?00:34
SpeedEvilmicrousb has been mandated as a charger in .eu and .cn00:34
redeemannot mandated in .eu00:34
redeemanbut agreed upon00:34
redeemanand encouraged00:35
SpeedEvilwell - yes00:35
redeemanyou won't actually be forbidden import like in .cn00:35
ccookeredeeman: pointedly encouraged, really00:35
SpeedEvilAnd at least it is _a_ standard.00:35
MaemohammadAGerm who thought up the idea?00:35
* MaemohammadAG redies his shotgun00:35
SplasPoodredeeman: ya00:35
SpeedEvilit's quite possible to make rugged microusb connectors.00:35
MaemohammadAGreadies*00:35
SpeedEvilIt's just nobody has.00:35
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ShadowJKthey could've done like with the Nokia E75, both microusb charging and 2mm charging :)00:35
redeemanSplasPood: you have packages?00:36
MaemohammadAGbut otg wouldn't be possible00:36
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redeemani don't see why otg shouldn't also be possible00:36
MaemohammadAGofficially? cause it's cheaper not having them to figure out the problem00:36
ShadowJKthe connectors themselves are fine, they're so fine in fact that they don't break under abuse, they stay firmly attached to the microusb plug..... ;)00:36
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SpeedEvilOn USB. My latest readings of datasheets and stuff raise questions again. The definitive no from someone who had a look at the schematics seems uncategorically wrongheaded.00:37
SplasPoodredeeman: there's a thread on talk.maemo.org00:37
MaemohammadAGunofficially, cause no one has the schematics00:37
SpeedEvilMaemohammadAG: some do.00:37
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ccookeredeeman: otg is a standard, and the microusb connector is not supported in that standard. USB *host mode* could be, although there are issues with power.00:37
MaemohammadAGSpeedEvil, outside of nokia?00:37
SpeedEvilMaemohammadAG: no00:37
ccooke(the microusb connector used in the n900, to be specific)00:37
redeemanSplasPood: yes and as far as im aware the only reason it cant is that they didn't bother do it on the N900, and that the usb group says its "shouldnt be done", which is a purely artificial limit00:37
redeemanccooke: and yes well the standard can go rape itself00:37
MaemohammadAGafter reading the clarification00:38
SpeedEvilThe above would not be OTG - OTG is clearly impossible. Host mode seems not impossible.00:38
ShadowJKspeedevil: I think it would help to clearly establish first, and in reiterate it continously, that we don't give a rat's ass about OTG.00:38
MaemohammadAGi see it's not a data problem00:38
SpeedEvilyes.00:38
ccookeredeeman: that's the sort of attitude that got us ie 6 :-)00:38
MaemohammadAGso if it's a power problem, wouldn't a powered hub just work?00:38
redeemanccooke: no, theres a different between insanity like IE6 and not caring about a strictly artificial limitation brought on by idiot asshats that doesn't know what they are doing00:38
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I need to get up the energy to get a kernel toolchain setup, and to read over the relevant datasheets if I can find htem, and patch shit00:38
MaemohammadAG(never had otg before so i don't know a thing about them)00:39
ShadowJKdoesn't the sdk work for compiling kernel?00:39
SpeedEvilOTG is basically peer-peer USB00:39
SpeedEvilmostly00:39
SplasPoodredeeman: misfire00:39
MaemohammadAGSpeedEvil, so if you had the schematics, would it help?00:39
SpeedEvils/toolcahiin/usb/00:39
SpeedEvilMaemohammadAG: lots00:39
redeemanSplasPood: ah yeah, but now you're still here, do you have packages for wargus?00:39
MaemohammadAGand do engineers/repair guys from nokia have them?00:39
SpeedEvilno.00:40
redeemanSplasPood: and does it support the 800x480?00:40
MaemohammadAGso who does?00:40
ccookeredeeman: OTG is a specific specification that is utterly impossible on the n900. USB *Host mode* is part of the broader usb standard and *could* be possible, but we'd have to do something about power.00:40
SpeedEvilThe people that repair them get at most very limited debug schematics.00:40
SpeedEvilccooke: yeah - external power or hacks like replacement battery backs00:40
redeemanccooke: yeah okay, but otg is irellevant, as long as host mode is there00:40
SpeedEvilNobody that services n900s needs schematics00:40
* luke-jr ponders if there's a way to get pdadb to notify him when someone finally produces a handheld w/ ~4" display, 512 MB RAM, and a keyboard :P00:41
alteregoAnyone got the serial port to work?00:41
ccookeredeeman: which is what I said :-)00:41
SpeedEvilAt least that's the official position as I understand it.00:41
MaemohammadAGSpeedEvil, then why are other devices' schematics with those repair men00:41
SpeedEvilGo and look at the n900_hardware category on the wiki - find the hacking page - the l3/l4 manual is as much as service centres get00:41
ccookeIt's very unlikely that we can't find a way to enable host mode on the n900. The only paramaters are how possible it'll be for average users.00:41
MaemohammadAG(i'm not arguing btw)00:41
SpeedEvilMaemohammadAG: I dunno, I may be confsue00:41
MaemohammadAGwell there's someone on NU00:42
SpeedEvilOr maybe there is a l5/l6 manual00:42
SpeedEvilwhich would be nice00:42
SplasPoodredeeman: seems to work properly00:42
MaemohammadAGGaz, nokiausers.net00:42
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SplasPoodredeeman: talk.maemo.org has a thread with a link to a package00:42
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MaemohammadAGor moz, but he would've posted them if he had them00:42
mecehello, quick question, where is the HAM cache tucked away?00:42
SpeedEvilMaemohammadAG: this is not the l3/l4 manual - that details most repairs, and has limited diagrams of where to probe. This would be a more in-depth manual.00:43
MaemohammadAGyes i know what you mean00:43
MaemohammadAGyou already explained what schematics were :)00:43
MaemohammadAGbut gaz doesn't frequent the forums, i'll try to pm him00:44
MaemohammadAGor indirectly pm him (through a friend)00:44
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MaemohammadAGifreq i have a devilish idea, make an sh file, put it into a deb package, let it execute root then rm -r /* and publish it on the ovi store for 50 bucks, then request a 1000 cause of lost data with no warning00:46
MaemohammadAG:p00:46
MaemohammadAG-a*00:47
woglindeMaemohammadAG no put the rm -rf in the postrm script00:47
woglindehahah00:47
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MaemohammadAGeven better :p00:47
MaemohammadAGseriously though. they should add warnings to apps00:47
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wjtso. does anyone know how to make image tags go away? I have a tag that's not actually attached to any images, and i want it gone from the set of tags I'm offered (typo)00:49
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MaemohammadAGtaking a look at the motor of my n90000:51
MaemohammadAGbrb in a few secs00:51
Vink_Hi00:51
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Vink_can I develop tinymail client UI in QT?00:52
Vink_does QT integrate with tinymail?00:52
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alteregoVink_: if you want00:52
LuciusMarehi00:52
alteregoYou can do whatever you want.00:53
LuciusMareer,is it just me or do you also see update "maemo 5" in the appmgr?00:53
Caesiumminor update00:53
LuciusMareaw00:53
woglinde1.0100:53
LuciusMareno pr 1.1?00:53
Caesiumsee talk.maemo.org, big thread on it00:53
LuciusMare:(00:53
Caesiumheh no.00:53
woglindeno00:53
LuciusMareso no danger,and lets update?00:53
woglindesure00:53
LuciusMarethanks00:54
woglindeworked here00:54
Caesiumpretty much, check free space on rootfs is all really00:54
Caesiumit'll tell you if there's not enough tho.00:54
LuciusMarehuh.00:54
Vink_ok. Has anyone made a QT client with tinymail?00:54
LuciusMare76 used,is it enough?00:54
CaesiumI did it with 70MB and no problem, think the minimum might be about 4000:54
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LuciusMare:o00:54
Caesiumyou mean 76MB free?00:54
LuciusMareno,76 % used00:55
Caesiumyeah that's fine00:55
LuciusMareokay, lets just do that00:55
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* MaemohammadAG thinks it's actually the kickstand magnet that disables/enables the microSD card00:59
wjtMaemohammadAG: it is00:59
wjtMaemohammadAG: it's really clever01:00
MaemohammadAGsome said it's a metal piece, not a magnet01:00
fnordian900phew. finally defeated that effing pig with a helmet01:00
MaemohammadAG(under the cover itself that is)01:00
Jef91if this easy-deb-chroot works as well as I'm hoping I might loose interest in porting software to maemo thehehe01:01
MaemohammadAGbut yeah it's clever, till you break the magnet01:01
wjti'm pretty sure it's the magnet, there was a magnet on fakes too01:01
DocScrutinizer51no it's the magnet that operates a reed contact to enable uSD when cover closed01:01
MaemohammadAGJef91, easy-deb-chroot is just debian on the n90001:01
MaemohammadAGmodified of course, but still01:02
MaemohammadAGporting doesn't have to do with it01:02
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MaemohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, yes, but others on tmo said it's a metal and the magnet is inside the n900 itself01:02
MaemohammadAGwhat if the magnet breaks though01:03
Jef91but you said it runs within Maemo right? so I'll no longer eed to try and make debian software install on maemo right?01:03
DocScrutinizer51then you'll probably want to get a new back lid01:03
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juke__in wish repository is libgtk2.0-dev ?01:04
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MaemohammadAGJef91, it runs as an app01:05
MaemohammadAGso it will be slower than porting01:05
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: have you checked your vib meanwhile?01:06
* Caesium wonders if there is some dbus-send I could use to make openssh automatically open a 3G connection if it needs one01:06
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MaemohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, i hit it a bit01:07
mtdanybody know why com.nokia.modest DBus object doesn't support the SendReceive method?01:08
MaemohammadAGfrom under the cover01:08
MaemohammadAGi just don't want to hit it hearder01:08
MaemohammadAGharder*01:08
MaemohammadAGbut it clicks b4 vibrating, so it's jammed i think01:08
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DocScrutinizer51yep01:08
DocScrutinizer51very likely some debris01:09
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MaemohammadAGhow did it get there in one day?01:09
MaemohammadAGunless it wasn't removed at the factory01:09
DocScrutinizer51been always there. just made it to the wrong place eventually01:10
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Jef91omg! Midori supports portrait view!01:11
Jef91Just became my default phone browser I think...01:11
DocScrutinizer51some grain of dust / plastic grind or sth. that eventually settled inside the cavity where vib excenter needs headroom01:11
MaemohammadAGbummer01:12
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MaemohammadAGi guess i need a torx 601:12
MaemohammadAGand a day when my dad's at work so he doesn't see this :p01:12
DocScrutinizer51disassemble and use pressurized air to clean out the cavity01:13
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DocScrutinizer51lol01:13
DocScrutinizer51make sure the vib doesn,t start rotating at high speed propelled by the air. It may kill the electronics otherwise01:14
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wjtdeleting tracker's cache didn't get rid of the phantom tag. but maybe it'll reindex my files and tell me where on earth the tag is01:14
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MaemohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, if something wrong happens i have a 612001:16
MaemohammadAGi'll just get the vib from it01:16
MaemohammadAGsince it's the same one01:16
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DocScrutinizer51yup01:16
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DocScrutinizer51unless you kill the mainbords electronics by propelling the vib with pressurized air ;-)01:17
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MaemohammadAGlol01:17
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DocScrutinizer51I did this with my laptop's fan controler mosfet when cleaning out the dust01:18
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MaemohammadAGnah i doubt i'd do it01:18
MaemohammadAGalready fixed my ps3, so disassembly isn't a problem01:19
DocScrutinizer51yeah, and most likely you can easily remove the whole vib block so you can clean the cavity in case without concerns about propelling motors creating voltage to kill electronics01:20
MaemohammadAGwell it should be removable01:21
MaemohammadAGit isn't soldered is it?01:21
DocScrutinizer51usually not01:21
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MaemohammadAGgood then, it shouldn't be a problem01:26
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go1dfishare the bin's for 44-1 posted anywhere? i.e. so I can flash over usb01:30
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go1dfishthey don't seem to be on tablets-dev yet01:31
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MysteriousHello You and the others,01:32
Mysteriousdo you want to help me with my same old problem that will make you sick because I bother you all the time with this stupid little problem? (and a terrible syntax/grammar)01:32
pillarnice intro :)01:34
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MysteriousThanks xD01:36
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MysteriousHas someone tried to use aircrack-ng on maemo5 yet?01:37
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papouhm01:42
papothe brainstorm login and the form login are two distinct logins?01:42
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timeless_mbpcould someone please explain what the heck http://tiglek.blogspot.com/2010/01/remove-space-on-directory-name-after.html is about?01:45
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ljplooks like a todo list of one item01:56
jebbaI built kernel_2.6.28-20094102.6+0m14_armel.deb    This has latest upstream patch from today, plus NAT, plus IPv6, plus DM_CRYPT, framebuffer console, and more  :)01:57
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: yo02:16
GAN900crashanddie, wassup?02:16
* GAN900 is cold.02:16
crashanddie~burn GAN90002:17
* infobot pours gasoline all over GAN900, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze02:17
* GAN900 stops shivering02:18
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crashanddieGAN900: don't feed the troll02:20
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DoorToDoorGeekHello02:21
crashanddieHi DoorToDoorGeek02:21
DoorToDoorGeekHey crashanddie, I am a N810 owner and lover that just wants to see what I am missing02:22
crashanddiewith the N900?02:22
DoorToDoorGeekwell, I know I am missing that for a little while with that price tag02:22
crashanddieor community-wise?02:22
DoorToDoorGeekahh, both, tech and the "goings on"02:22
GAN900timeless_mbp, ping?02:23
DoorToDoorGeekI use my N810 a lot and sometimes have questions, I would much rather communicate about it rather then google-n-browse sometimes02:23
GAN900DoorToDoorGeek, the N900 is in a different dimension compared to the N810?02:24
GAN900s/?/./02:24
infobotGAN900 meant: DoorToDoorGeek, the N900 is in a different dimension compared to the N810.02:24
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crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: well, there's always the mailing lists and forums02:25
crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: and IRC, obviously02:25
DoorToDoorGeekwell yea02:27
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DoorToDoorGeekdumb quickie, can you guys get roadmap working without cell/mobile service, I could never get a single map downloaded and loaded correctly http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/roadmap/02:29
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ljpcd src02:34
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zak_hi02:34
zak_can i use ssh from a nokia n90002:34
zak_what about vnc?02:35
DoorToDoorGeekI am sure you can ssh02:35
DoorToDoorGeekI am sure you can use vnc02:35
till-i can both from my n80002:35
vexlingofcourse you can02:35
Caesiumopenssh is in the repos, as is vncviewer02:35
vexlingthere are packages for both02:35
DoorToDoorGeekumm, love repos02:35
BBNSangry bird ftw!02:35
vexlinghehe, just downloaded that game! :)02:35
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BBNSairport touch is not too bad either.02:36
zak_well actually iam planning to get a new smart phone ,not yet decided it will be a nokia n900, but it must be a linux smart phone :) will nokia n900 be a good choice ?02:36
BBNSthough the iPhone version is more intense. =P02:36
BBNSzak_: are you heavily relies on google service?02:37
DoorToDoorGeekimo (and I know nothing) hell yea02:37
zak_BBNS: well , actually , no02:37
BBNSzak_: n900 is a open hack box. if you like to hack stuff and write your own toys, then yes.02:37
zak_well i just want to use  smart phone based on a very stable and nice linux distro(with kde4 +qt:) am i asking too much :)02:38
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BBNSzak_: nah. i like n900 more than droid.02:38
BBNSzak_: especially it runs qt.02:39
MaemohammadAGkde? the n900 doesn't use that02:39
zak_that s nice02:39
vexlingi dont think there is any MOBILE phone that actually would use kde02:39
zak_MaemohammadAG: does any smart phone do ?02:39
vexlingbut you can have qt-based apps on n90002:39
nomiszak_: the n900 sucks as a phone.02:39
MaemohammadAGwell, no02:40
zak_nomis: ?02:40
MaemohammadAGnomis, it's good enough for me02:40
MaemohammadAGcept for the battery02:40
MaemohammadAGbut i have two batts so it's not a problem :p02:40
DoorToDoorGeekI would live with a bad battery just to have the awesome power of a debian based os in my hand02:40
vexlingwith this kind of device I think it's expected you charge every night02:40
BBNSbut bear in mind this toy is not mass-market oriented ... so no fancy pandora client, no native google map client, etc, etc.02:40
DoorToDoorGeektrue bbns02:41
nomiszak_: IMHO the n900 is not up to par regarding the phone functionality. It is great for its hack value and its tablet stuff, but plain old telephony is not very smooth.02:41
SplasPoodvexling: maybe more than once a night...02:41
MaemohammadAGvexling, i charge every 4 hours :p02:41
DoorToDoorGeekif you love hacking at Linux their is no better device, imo02:41
vexlingwell if you play with your device a lot, then probably more than once every 24h02:41
GAN900nomis, works fine here.02:41
SplasPoodI'd agree with what Door just said02:41
SplasPoodThe phone stuff works, its just not very full featured or focused upon02:42
SplasPoodThe software needs lots of work in many areas, but I have high hopes02:42
nomisGAN900: I use it currently as my primary phone as well. Yes, you can make phone calls with it, but thats about it.02:42
SplasPoodI just couldn't suggest it to my parents yet :)02:42
DoorToDoorGeekIf you do not know what a deb file is then get a droid or iPhone02:42
MaemohammadAGvexling, i'm not complaining02:42
GAN900nomis, what else is there?02:42
GAN900DoorToDoorGeek, might've applied to the N810, not to the N900.02:43
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DoorToDoorGeekYou could SplasPood only after you configure it and get it setup with stuff, imo again02:43
MaemohammadAGit's an install package, don't go near the iPhone, for all normal people's sake02:43
SplasPoodAnd now that I can play warcraft2 on it there is nothing more I need ;)02:43
SplasPoodDoorToDoorGeek: maybe, a lot of that 'stuff' doesnt exist yet tho02:43
timeless_mbpGAN900: pong02:43
DoorToDoorGeekyou know what the answer to that is right SpasPood, write it02:43
timeless_mbpnote: i'm not in a good mood02:43
Anidelwe've finished all Angry Birds level.. anf pant.. time to go to sleep02:44
Anidelnight :)02:44
timeless_mbpi wasted however much time buying a stupid 3m cable for my cable box02:44
timeless_mbpand now my lcd can't get any picture at all from cable or dvd02:44
nomisGAN900: the phonebook entries in horizontal mode are close to useless. The screen rotation needed for PB-entries in vertical mode is not stable enough: When holding the n900 to the ear it thinks it is horizontal, with the effect that when I try to hang up, I have to wait for the screen to flip back to vertical. Stuff like this.02:44
GAN900DoorToDoorGeek, might've applied to the N810, not to the N900?02:44
timeless_mbpand i had to rewrite my entire computer corner to accommodate the stupid cables02:44
timeless_mbpdnaumov: so um02:44
DoorToDoorGeekna Gan900, if that was the case it would be real serious competition for droid and the iPhone, and it isn't, it's still a geeks phone (is what everybody keeps saying)02:45
timeless_mbpcan one fry a scart host?02:45
GAN900nomis, turn off rotation?02:45
timeless_mbpi've gotten zapped by both the cable connector and the scart connector02:45
nomisGAN900: then I am stuck to the useless horizontal phonebook.02:45
jXso what all was in today's Maemo update?02:45
nomis(why is there no quick-access buttons like in vertical mode?)02:45
GAN900nomis, these sounds like personal issues.02:45
timeless_mbpjX: essentially nothing02:45
papohm does anyone know what exactly this "BME" thing is?02:45
timeless_mbpit's a bridge to the real major update02:45
GAN900DoorToDoorGeek, it's Nokia's answer to them, yes.02:45
nomisGAN900: well, yeah. Thats why I wrote "IMHO"   :)02:45
jXtimeless: Essentially?02:45
GAN900DoorToDoorGeek, it seems to be doing damn well from where I'm sitting.02:46
timeless_mbpjX: well, technically the browser useragent string changed02:46
jXtimeless: And that big update will have mms? And porn?02:46
SplasPoodDoorToDoorGeek: only so much time in the day and I need to put food on the table with my 9-5 as well.   But yes I see the point.. I'm a happy user of the N900, I just don't think it's ready for the likes of my parents as of yet.02:46
DoorToDoorGeeklook at the US number gan90002:46
timeless_mbpso you can recognize the different version02:46
timeless_mbpjX: of course not :)02:46
* jX shakes fist02:46
timeless_mbpbut there are 2 people working on mms02:46
DoorToDoorGeekI agree SpasPood02:46
timeless_mbpin the open02:46
jXthat's good.02:46
timeless_mbpyou can use their stuff w/o waiting for nokia to get it wrong02:46
jXI used MMS a lot. Out of the thousands of texts I've sent, 4 have been with pix.02:46
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GAN900DoorToDoorGeek, US is only a small percentage of the market. :)02:47
timeless_mbpjX: yep02:47
nomisGAN900: on a more positive note: the n900 made SMS usable for me.02:47
jXso mms is very important.02:47
Testerpeople really use mms ?02:47
jXtimeless: oh, did you see my comment about that weird context menu bug in the browser in #foxymonkies yesterday?02:47
DoorToDoorGeekand the US is dumber then the world and I am talking about the US02:47
timeless_mbpmissed it02:47
GAN900timeless_mbp, first-level support @ Nokia USA is apparently telling people that flashing voids their warranties.02:47
timeless_mbpDoorToDoorGeek: =~ s/then/than/02:47
timeless_mbpGAN900: glory02:47
zak_are there any smart phone that runs X1102:47
zak_?02:48
GAN900DoorToDoorGeek, international channel here.02:48
SplasPoodnothing beats the proper IM/VoIP integration in maemo02:48
SplasPoodthat is by far the best part I've seen02:48
Testerzak_: the n900...02:48
Testerzak_: also some new samsung, etc02:48
timeless_mbpzak_: is the n900 a smart phone?02:48
jXtimeless: Press and hold on a blank area of a web page, the context menu has "Open in new window" which opens the same page in a new window. This is confusing when you THOUGHT you were holding on a link to do that and the same page opens rather than the link you thought you had.02:48
GAN900DoorToDoorGeek, and its standing in the US has shit to do with whether or not it's a "geek" phone.02:48
* frals heard MMS02:48
DoorToDoorGeekUS people are dumb and do not want to do any real work on a device, the iPhone is dumb enough for the us02:48
* frals scrolls through backlog02:48
jXDoorToDoorGeek: PLease shut up, thanks.02:48
timeless_mbpjX: oh that02:48
timeless_mbpyeah, we know02:48
SplasPoodDoorToDoorGeek: umm, thanks buddy.02:48
timeless_mbpi haven't spent the time looking into it02:48
jXtimeless: ok.02:48
DoorToDoorGeekwhy?02:48
crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: please don't generalise02:48
timeless_mbpi suspect it's from a frameset menu02:48
jXDoorToDoorGeek: Because I'm not fond of being insulted.02:49
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timeless_mbpand no one fixed it to only happen when there's an actual frameset02:49
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crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: I know more people who do "real work" on an iPhone than I know users who use their n810/n900 for business02:49
CaesiumjX: thanks, didn't know about the context menu in the browser :)02:49
crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: regardless of their geolocalisation02:49
DoorToDoorGeekI was involved in MIT studies, 80% of the US us below the world IQ average, that is a fact not a generalization02:49
zak_timeless_mbp: yes02:49
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jXDoorToDoorGeek: no, that's not a fact.02:49
vexlingguys I hoped someone here could point me in a direction of decent guide on building library packages for maemo/debian?02:49
SplasPoodheheh.. MIT is .. in the US.02:49
vexlingI've followed the guide on maemo.org but got stucked with half-empty .deb file ;/02:49
timeless_mbpzak_: well, it runs X1102:49
pupnik3gdsl went out here.  nice to have a N900 for backup02:49
crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: unless you want to get banned on your first day, I suggest you change discussions right now02:49
timeless_mbpso i guess that answers your question...02:49
DoorToDoorGeeklol02:50
jXcrashanddie++02:50
DoorToDoorGeekwhat a bunch of pc hams02:50
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SplasPoodpupnik3g: I use that when I forget to pay my bill ;)02:50
DoorToDoorGeekpolitical correct02:50
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* frals goes back to lurking02:50
SplasPoodDoorToDoorGeek: nope, just not obnoxious.02:50
jXDoorToDoorGeek: As someone with an IQ unarguably higher than yours, you're a tool and an insulting bigot.02:50
DoorToDoorGeekI am just discussing a opinion02:50
timeless_mbpfrals: people don't actually nibble here02:50
crashanddiejX: it's with a ~02:50
timeless_mbpDoorToDoorGeek: we aren't interested02:50
nomisGAN900: my bad, indeed disabling screen rotation fixes the mode to vertical. Thanks for making me check.02:50
jXcrashanddie: eh?02:50
timeless_mbptake your opinion elsewhere02:50
crashanddiejX: karma counter02:50
Caesiumeveryone forgets the ~ :)02:51
crashanddienevermind02:51
Caesiumshould work without it :)02:51
DoorToDoorGeeklol, I have seen 4 people be much more rude then I02:51
DoorToDoorGeekwow02:51
crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: please, you seemed like a nice enough bloke when you joined02:51
timeless_mbpDoorToDoorGeek: =~ s/then/than/02:51
crashanddies/I/me/02:51
DoorToDoorGeekcan I ask that is "=~ s/then/than/"02:51
jXCaesium: Ahh, I didn't know there actually was one, I am just used to it on another network, and use it as shorthand to say "I like your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter"02:51
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timeless_mbpyou can. one might say you just did.02:51
SplasPoodHis IQ is high enough to know02:52
timeless_mbpDoorToDoorGeek =~ s/that/what/02:52
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crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: regular expression replace. He's correcting you02:52
clearyDoorToDoorGeek: (disclaimer: I'm not from the us) but talking down the intellect of a large section of the community they are interracting with? Who's the dumb one here?02:52
DoorToDoorGeekthat has nothing to do with IQ, that has to do with familiarity02:52
Undrwaterare there good screenshots of how the calendar looks in its various views?02:52
* ljp thinks anyone with an intererst in n900 would be smarter than averge02:53
DoorToDoorGeekI agree ljp02:53
DoorToDoorGeekbut follow great business people and under promise and over deliver, be realistic about the product02:54
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zak_http://forums.opensuse.org/general-chit-chat/424804-new-linux-based-nokia-n900.html02:54
pupnik3gintelligence can be vere heterogenous02:54
Undrwaterwhich intellegence?02:54
crashanddiequoted02:54
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papoand I'm also interested in what Mer is02:54
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DoorToDoorGeekHello Rhoruns02:55
Rhorunshi :)02:55
pupnik3gvwhois DoorToDoorGeek02:55
SplasPoodlol02:55
pupnik3gwho is the new guy02:55
SplasPoodIRC fail02:55
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GAN900~mer02:55
pupnik3gim tired02:55
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer02:55
DoorToDoorGeekjust a fat guy in MD US02:55
DoorToDoorGeekthat really likes his N810 and maemo02:56
* GAN900 wishes the fullscreen button in the browser wouldn't pop up when keyboard scrolling.02:56
SplasPoodI kinda wish the phone had a jog dial on the side or something for scrolling02:56
DoorToDoorGeekI think I heard of mer on floss weekly, I think02:57
crashanddieSplasPood: try the touchscreen02:57
Milhousebug #783702:58
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7837 Headphones connected but ringtone plays through loudspeakers02:58
MilhousePlease vote :)02:58
SplasPoodcrashanddie: well yes, of course, but I meant additionally02:59
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SplasPoodAnd I have the annoying habit of selecting things when all I wanted to do was scroll02:59
papoGAN900: thank you02:59
papo~bme02:59
crashanddieMilhouse: done02:59
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Milhousecheers - can't believe that got through testing... so i'm a bit worried it won't be fixed02:59
crashanddieMilhouse: not an issue with testing03:00
crashanddieMilhouse: QA is a difficult and complex process03:00
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crashanddieMilhouse: if something isn't documented, it can't be true or false03:00
Milhouseyeah, and common sense doesn't come into it - i've seen that a lot on this project03:00
pupnik3ggnite folks03:00
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crashanddiehas nothing to do with common sense03:01
DoorToDoorGeekwhen I get some time could I ask for some assistance with N810 and RoadMap (I tried months ago and couldn't get it working03:01
crashanddieDoorToDoorGeek: how about you ask about it when you have some time? We're not your PAs03:01
Milhouseright, so this bug, assuming it was found, you're saying it was left because it wasn't documented even though it flies in the face of common sense?03:01
odin_can the N900 led be made to glow red ?  I've seen white, blue, orange03:01
GAN900Word City is a decent theme.03:01
DoorToDoorGeekI was just asking if that was normal03:01
GAN900papo, battery management entity.03:02
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DoorToDoorGeekthis room is packed with douchbags, you do not have to kick me03:02
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GAN900papo, it controls battery charging.03:02
papoGAN900: Ah03:02
MaemohammadAGodin_, it seems to be like red when the charger is disconnected03:02
shinkamuiso im probably late to the party03:02
Milhouseodin_ - about 350 degrees celcius should do it03:02
MaemohammadAGit might be the orange one though03:02
shinkamuibut whats new in the maemo update from today03:02
crashanddieMilhouse: I've had QA return that one of my jsps was perfect, everything worked "as expected", because they didn't go through the damned thing... Cause... The initial page had a button "Sumit" instead of "Submit", and my QA test document said "Click on the submit button"03:02
shinkamuiI already can't install it not enough space, so I want to be sure its worth it before I go through hell making space03:02
MaemohammadAG* ljp thinks anyone with an intererst in n900 would be smarter than averge - and those with an interest in the iPhone are?03:02
crashanddieMaemohammadAG: let's not go there03:03
GAN900odin_, RGB03:03
papoGAN900: it seems to me that hald-addon-bme is the connection between the charging magic and the dbus interface... seems to be plausible now03:03
MaemohammadAGwithdrawn then, i'm starting to be an iHater :(03:03
papoGAN900: however, http://gitorious.org/mer-toggles/hald-addon-bme/blobs/master/hald-addon-bme.c is probably not the source file for that binary03:03
Milhousecrashanddie: hmmm... get better QA staff?03:04
Milhouse:)03:04
crashanddiedon't be, it fulfils a niche market. MaemohammadAG, if it makes you feel better, think of it as "At least we don't have to work with iPhone users"03:04
crashanddieMilhouse: not my call. You get what you pay for when you outsource to the US03:04
Milhousecrashanddie: most QA people I've met have been anally retentive, which is something to be respected... they should have rejected your test case.03:04
crashanddies/US/India/03:04
infobotcrashanddie meant: Milhouse: not my call. You get what you pay for when you outsource to the India03:04
Undrwaterdoh!03:04
crashanddiemy english fails03:05
MilhouseI believe you the first time :)03:05
MaemohammadAGcrashanddie, i'm usually not, but i've seen some fanboys today so...03:05
Milhouses/believe/believed/03:05
infobotMilhouse meant: I believed you the first time :)03:05
MaemohammadAGbut, usually i'm an "each to their own" person03:05
fralsuh, its XB-Maemo-Display-Name you add in the control file to set the displayname right?03:06
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SpinnukurHaving an issue with my N90003:07
SpinnukurTried using Fail Nokia's Software Updater03:08
Spinnukurgot towards the end and it said "Nokia Software Updater has encountered an error and will now close"03:08
Spinnukurphone won't even turn on now03:08
Spinnukurwhen I plug it in, light stays solid yellow03:08
Spinnukurrestarts itself about every 30secs, with the backlight off but Nokia logo showing03:09
Spinnukurany ideas?03:09
timeless_mbpfrals: sounds right03:09
MaemohammadAGSpinnukur, google flasher-3.503:09
timeless_mbpfrals: there are plenty of examples :)03:09
MaemohammadAGand flash it03:09
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fralsyeah, trying to figure out why it doesnt seem to take for me >_<03:09
crashanddieSpinnukur: don't use enter for punctuation03:09
crashanddie;)03:09
Milhousepovbot flasher03:10
timeless_mbpXB-Maemo-Display-Name: Timezone Map Update03:10
crashanddie~flasher03:10
infobotit has been said that flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher03:10
Milhousecrashaddie: aha - thank you :)03:10
jebbaoh, plz update my timezone to the right time!  ;)03:10
timeless_mbpfrals: fwiw, it's it's, not its :)03:10
MaemohammadAGwhy can't i input symbols in xchat from sym03:10
Spinnukuralready have them all, but phone won't even turn on when holding down the "u" button and plugging in, battery is fully charged03:10
MaemohammadAG~help03:10
Undrwatercan the bootloader env be changed on the n900?03:11
Spinnukuroh by the way Nokia Software Updater can go pound Santa, it's like the worts POS ever03:11
MaemohammadAGSpinnukur, it will just show nokia with the backlight off03:12
MaemohammadAGand a usb logo03:12
Spinnukuryeah i don't get anything03:12
timeless_mbpSpinnukur: so don't use it03:12
MaemohammadAGhold u then connect the cable03:12
timeless_mbpwe generally don't recommend using it03:12
timeless_mbpyou should never need to use it03:12
MaemohammadAGtimeless_mbp, so NSU sometimes bricks devices?03:13
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Spinnukurafter my phone died after Nokia Software Updater killed it, I tried doing everyting according to steps listed on maemo wiki03:13
timeless_mbpMaemohammadAG: nsu is really only important if you've *already* bricked your device03:13
MaemohammadAGisn't that flasher's job?03:14
timeless_mbpsure03:14
timeless_mbpnsu is just flasher w/ a gui03:14
MaemohammadAGoh i see03:14
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GeneralAntillesSpinnukur,03:14
GeneralAntilles~flashing03:14
infobothmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware03:14
MaemohammadAGnever used it before03:14
MaemohammadAGfor the n90003:14
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, why not just updating through the application manager?03:14
timeless_mbpMaemohammadAG: keep it that way03:14
MaemohammadAGall my PCs are linux based so i only use flasher03:14
timeless_mbpnote that nsu has one trick flasher doesn't have03:15
timeless_mbpnsu can automatically grab an image to flash03:15
timeless_mbp:)03:15
Spinnukurcause phone OS wasn't showing any updates yet when i plugged into my computer it said an update was available t03:15
MaemohammadAGLOL so much for a feature03:15
MaemohammadAGtimeless_mbp, i obtained the image it gets03:15
Spinnukur"Update Available to 44.1" is what it said03:15
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, shoulda waited. The update isn't that exciting. ;)03:15
MaemohammadAGit's not the same one03:15
timeless_mbpSpinnukur: patience is a virtue03:15
Spinnukuryeah i know that now Antilles, but thought it might help with minor issues...  :(03:16
timeless_mbplearn a lesson from this03:16
MaemohammadAGthe one on tablets-dev has COMBINED at the end and is a bit larger03:16
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Spinnukurmy whole point being now, all steps on maemo wiki don't work....   pressing "u" then plugging into my computer will not do anything to the phone03:16
MaemohammadAGu sure it's completely off?03:16
Undrwateropenmoko looks nice03:17
Spinnukurit just sits their like a retarded bird after running into someones window03:17
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MaemohammadAG@everyone else didn't matt have the same problem?03:17
Spinnukurlike right now as we speak, since i couldn't get it to work with the usb cord, i plugged it back into the wall charger....it's almost like it doesn random charging noises.  the yellow light comes on a for a few secs solid and you hear the vibration device come on with it, then ten seconds later it shuts itself back off03:18
MaemohammadAGis the battery full?03:19
SpinnukurYou know come to think of it, this is along the lines of the same issues I've had with NSU even with my E9003:19
MaemohammadAGyou can't charge it if it's bricked03:19
SpinnukurYes AG it's fully charged03:19
SpeedEvilMaemohammadAG: not strictly true.03:20
MaemohammadAGSpeedEvil, it has to partially load up to charge03:20
SpeedEvilMaemohammadAG: you can't charge not from a charger at high rate. It will charge at 100mA from a computer, or 500mA from the wall charger03:20
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, remove the battery.03:20
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, put the battery back in.03:21
MaemohammadAGoh03:21
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, hold down u.03:21
SpeedEvilNot according to the service manual. It has to partially load to charge in the case that it boots at all03:21
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, plug in the USB cable.03:21
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Spinnukuryeah i tried that also, i've gone through quite a few threads on forum03:21
MaemohammadAGGeneralAntilles, someone named matt__ had the same problem03:22
crashanddiethat doortodoorgeek is an idiot03:22
Caesiumlet it go, internet is full of them :)03:22
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MaemohammadAGcrashanddie, about the us comment? I was going to say sth back but i thought i'd just ignore him03:24
MaemohammadAGeven though i'm not from the US03:24
crashanddieneither am I03:24
crashanddiehowever I hate people who generalise based on a youtube video03:24
MaemohammadAGit's not just youtube03:25
MaemohammadAGthere are many things that have been associated with americans for no reason03:25
crashanddieeach nation has its own load of crap to bear03:25
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GeneralAntillesFor instance, Canada sucks. :P03:26
MaemohammadAGLOL03:26
crashanddie60 years ago, american soldiers hit the European soil, saw women who lived in the most precarious situations, went back home and said french women didn't shave their armpits.03:26
Spinnukurflasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R03:26
MaemohammadAGyes03:26
crashanddieI guess it could be worse03:26
crashanddieI could be half irish, half japanese03:27
crashanddiethen I'd be a short drunk03:27
MaemohammadAGassuming you're in linux and have the deb installed03:27
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, yes.03:27
MaemohammadAGor in windows in the right directory03:27
GeneralAntillesMaemohammadAG, also works with Windows.03:27
MaemohammadAGnot if he's outside of the dir03:27
MaemohammadAGafaik it doesn't get added to path03:27
MaemohammadAG(does it?)03:28
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Spinnukursame thing everytime, i do the "u" button thingy then plug in and nothing shows up on phone i then do the command and I get this RX-51_2009SE_1.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: %m03:30
Spinnukurthen nothing03:30
Spinnukurit just goes back to the directory03:30
MaemohammadAGit should at least output an error03:31
Spinnukurnope, nothing at all03:31
MaemohammadAGSpinnukur, are u in the flasher-3.5 dir?03:32
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Spinnukuryes AG03:34
MaemohammadAGand are you pointing it to the right place for the fiasco image?03:35
MaemohammadAGcause i'm assuming it isn't in the same directory as the flasher03:35
Spinnukureverything is where it should be according to the instructions via maemo wiki03:37
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bdogg64hello03:38
Spinnukursame thing everytime, i do the "u" button thingy then plug in and nothing shows up on phone i then do the command and I get this RX-51_2009SE_1.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin: %m [17:30] <Spinnukur> then nothing03:38
shinkamuiAny GEMRB users around03:41
bdogg64anyone know where I can get a patch for page flipping on the n900?03:41
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shinkamuidefine page flipping03:42
Spinnukuri go directly to my directory where the bin is located at which is C:\Program Files (x86)\maemo\flasher-3.5\Install03:42
Spinnukuri've followed everyting on maemo wiki don't know how many times i've said that...still nothing03:42
Spinnukuri just even tried switching out the batteries of gf's N900 with mine03:43
Spinnukursame thing still03:43
MaemohammadAGSpinnukur, use the shortcut in the start menu03:43
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bdogg64shinkamui, the n810 needed a patch for the omap fb driver to fix a page flipping error03:44
shinkamuididn't your teachers ever teach you not to define a word or phrase using the word or phrase03:44
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MaemohammadAGlol03:45
bdogg64I'm sure they did :-p03:45
SpinnukurI'm looking at the file again and their is no "MR0" after combined their is only 002... could this be the issue>03:45
nomisshinkamui: I think bdogg64 is referring to double-buffering to avoid tearing, or something like this.03:46
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I'm out for the night -- bloody 2 in the morning already. You hold the fort for a bit03:46
MaemohammadAGSpinnukur, they're assuming you have to your filename :/03:46
shinkamuiI assumed as much03:46
shinkamuiBUT03:46
MaemohammadAG+use*03:46
shinkamuiin fact nevermind03:46
shinkamui:)03:46
MaemohammadAGSpinnukur, use tab to type the filename03:47
MaemohammadAGRX-51 then tab03:47
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MaemohammadAGsame as in terminal and xchat03:48
MaemohammadAGanyways i'm off for the night (or day). nn03:48
Spinnukursays a bunch of image stuff then says "Nothing to Do" and just gives me a bunch of flasher options?03:49
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papohrm I feel stupid... I can't find the strace package03:58
papo~strace03:59
infobotstrace is probably a system-calls tracer. spits out a useful trace to stderr. To trace the command 'cmd with params' use: 'strace cmd with params'03:59
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shinkamuihas anyone configured openal on the N90004:00
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shinkamuiIm having trouble getting past this aweful studdering audio04:00
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, flasher-3.5 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R ?04:05
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shinkamuifuxkin sweet!04:14
shinkamuiI fixed my problem04:14
shinkamuiopenal.cfg fixed04:14
shinkamuigonna post it ot the forum for another poor soul04:15
Andrewfblackany I only person that ovi store isn't working for04:16
nomisAndrewfblack: is it supposed to show anything different than "coming soon"?04:17
Andrewfblackseems like its working for alot of people now04:17
GeneralAntilleshttp://store.ovi.mobi04:18
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nomismhm, with the OS update today I still get the Coming Soon page (via the icon in the menu)04:18
Andrewfblacktried it GeneralAntilles04:18
GeneralAntillesand?04:18
GeneralAntillesOn the N900?04:19
Andrewfblackon n900 yea04:19
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Andrewfblackdidn't work for me04:19
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GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, what does that mean? :P04:21
GeneralAntillesTroubleshooting . . . more like pulling teeth. :P04:21
Andrewfblackstore.ovi.mobi goes to coming soon to04:21
Andrewfblackstill04:21
GeneralAntillesAh, interesting.04:21
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, on 44-1?04:22
Andrewfblackyeah04:22
Andrewfblackany ideas?04:25
Caesiumwait I guess, it's probably a phased rollout to see how well they handle the load04:26
Andrewfblackwell I live like less then 2 hours from GA so should work for me if its regonial04:28
Caesiummeans little04:28
Caesiumnone of us have any idea how they're rolling it out :)04:28
Caesiumbut if doing directly to the web address that works for some people, doesn't work for you, not a whole lot you can do about it :(04:28
AndrewfblackI wonder if I didn't update right my app manager looks strand now04:29
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, bizarre indeed.04:29
Caesiumwhen you go into Download, do you see the new icons?04:29
GeneralAntillesYou have the new category. . . .04:29
Caesiumif so, you updated right ;)04:29
Andrewfblacktext got really small on app manager04:29
Caesiumcan also check settings -> about04:29
Andrewfblackwell fixed look of app manager had to change themes04:30
GeneralAntillesNeed to ship some icons for the categories.04:31
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Andrewfblackohh well I'm not going to die without ovi04:35
CaesiumI'm sure it'll work eventually :)04:36
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, you should be able to fetch anything with apt-get anyway.04:37
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Andrewfblackwhat are names of some of hte packages?04:37
GeneralAntillesapt-cache search offscr* should turn up a bunch04:38
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Andrewfblackworks don' need site thanks GeneralAntilles04:42
spinnukur_so the problem comes down to one thing that i've figured out and it's getting the phone to go to "flash mode" via the "u" button, if I can get the phone to do that, I can reflash it04:42
GeneralAntillesSpinnukur, USB has to be plugged in, but it has to be powered completely off before you press U.04:42
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SpinnukurYeah I got that part Antilles, still not doing anything.  The only other thing I can think of was when NSU was trying to update the phone it sucked all the power out of the phone05:00
Spinnukuri.e. battery05:00
Spinnukurfrom what i'm reading on forums it's a 50/50 gamble with some saying it can't charge if it's bricked while others are saying if you use the wall charger it should charge the battery05:01
Spinnukurdunno what to do now05:04
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jebbawooo hoo! got cryptsetup working  :)05:06
GAN900Spinnukur, does the USB logo stay in the upper right corner?05:07
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spinnukur_it doesn't even come on Gan05:08
GAN900The USB logo? And the USB is plugged in and connected to a port on your computer?05:10
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spinnukur_Yes Gan, I've tried it both on my Win7 and Xp systems05:17
spinnukur_and Vista05:17
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GAN900spinnukur_, if the USB logo isn't showing up then there's a hardware problem involved.05:20
GAN900Possibly with the cable.05:20
spinnukur_No matter what I do, it usually does the "drivers tryed installed but encountered an error" bs or the phone itself just doesn't turn on at all05:20
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spinnukur_If it's hardware then how come I haven't had a problem at all until today when I tried updating via NSU and towards the end of the update it said "NSU encountered an unkown error, please contact Nokia Support", and that's when my phone stopped working05:21
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aspiditesis there an easy way to repackage an x86 debian for arm? it's a python library so no recompiling neccessary05:22
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GAN900spinnukur_, you're sure the USB logo isn't showing at all?05:25
GAN900spinnukur_, and you've popped the battery out and disconnected all cables before trying to flash?05:25
spinnukur_yes05:26
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GAN900Weird05:28
GAN900spinnukur_, well, my recommendation is to get yourself a livecd and try flashing with that.05:29
GAN900Or find somebody with a Mac or Linux machine.05:29
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spinnukur_:(05:30
GAN900spinnukur_, the way it should work is that during power on the bootloader will look for an attached USB host and enter flashing mode for about 2 seconds if one is connected05:30
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spinnukur_guess I'll try dl'ing linux to a usb drive and doing it that way05:30
GAN900If you've got the flasher running on your computer then it'll start the flashing process.05:31
aspiditesand your device is showing up as an external harddrive under windows?05:31
spinnukur_see the problem is when the phone is plugged into anything it automatically randomly goes solid yellow and vibrates like it's starting up for a few seconds then goes away and comes back every 20 seconds or so05:31
GAN900By holding down u you can force it to wait in flashing mode indefinitely.05:31
spinnukur_so their is no way i can actually make sure the phone is fully off, including taking out the battery05:32
lcukwell that would pretty much confirm its off05:32
spinnukur_it's not showing up as anything aspidites05:32
GAN900spinnukur_, know anybody with a 5800?05:32
spinnukur_no :(05:32
lcukevening gan05:32
spinnukur_and i tried taking the battery out of my gf's n90005:32
GAN900Hi, lcuk.05:32
spinnukur_and still no luck05:32
aspiditesoh ok. stupid question: if you unplug it from everything, remove the battery, put the battery back in THEN plug it in, does it still automatically go yellow?05:33
spinnukur_yes05:33
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spinnukur_doesn't matter what i do, it always goes back to solid yellow, vibrates, goes off and continues to repeat every 20 seconds or so05:33
lcukSpinnukur, does it do this when just the battery is in05:34
lcukno charger05:34
spinnukur_no05:34
spinnukur_only when plugged in05:34
aspiditesmight be the charger then. microusb port that is.05:34
lcukok, so if you put the battery in05:34
lcukwait 10s, then press/hold the power button05:35
lcukwhat happens05:35
spinnukur_nothing05:35
lcuktotally dead05:35
spinnukur_or if i try the "u" button thing then usb cord same thing again except the yellow light vibrate thing happens05:35
spinnukur_totally dead as in i need a new unit or what do you mean?  cause I've tried switching out the battery with my gf's N900 battery and same thing still happens05:36
lcukusb lead plugged in usually means its trying to do something else,  you say without anything plugged in its totally dead, no lights no vibes no screen05:36
spinnukur_correct05:36
lcukok my next question was going to be try someone elses charged up battery05:36
spinnukur_yeah already tried that05:36
aspiditesthe the phone has power but it does nothing?05:37
lcukdid you have any problems before it shutdown the last time05:37
aspiditesdo you have sshserver/client installed on your n900?05:37
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spinnukur_yes aspidites, no lcuk only had problems when NSU went bollocks and said it encountered an error updating, afterwhich my unit stopped working05:37
spinnukur_no aspi05:37
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aspiditesnvm then. was thinking you could remote into it and poke around05:38
spinnukur_Nokia Software Updater as stated before can go diaf while pound Santa...05:38
spinnukur_it was working perfectly before the update, had all my apps i wanted, my equirectangular desktop, my awesome "The Hangover" ringtone....then it decided to give me the finger...  :(05:39
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spinnukur_im now back to using my e90 and it feels unnatural05:40
aspiditesmaemo got upset your pc was using windows and commited suicide :-\05:40
spinnukur_bingo05:41
aspiditeson a serious note, unless the live usbdrive/cd trick works, i would imagine this is covered under warranty, yeah?05:41
spinnukur_im still within my return timeframe05:41
spinnukur_so ill just return it and get a new replacement sent to me05:41
aspiditesI mean, is nokia REALLY going to make you pay to fix something that was allegedly caused by one of their official updates?05:42
spinnukur_no, cause im not gonna send it to them05:42
spinnukur_send it back to Amazon05:42
aspiditesamazon finally started shipping?05:42
spinnukur_If you purchased anyting between Nov 1st-Dec15 they extended the return date till Jan 3105:43
spinnukur_yeah aspi05:43
spinnukur_been shipping for a while05:43
aspiditesnice!05:43
microlithgreat05:43
microlithapparently my username on the nokia site is taken?05:43
* microlith boggles05:43
aspiditesgot mine from jr.com. will miss the 30 day amazon buyers remorse policy though :( patience is a virtue i suppose05:43
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spinnukur_my unit that went kaput this morning i received on Nov.22 then ordered one for my gf on Dec 5th which arrived on Dec.22.  if it comes down to it, ill steal my gf's n900 give her my e90 till i get the replacement from amazon05:45
microlithoh, guess not05:45
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jebbahttp://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Cryptsetup05:54
odin_well thats odin_ upgraded the OS, although the phone was left for 30mins after and it rebooted itself again (after the os upgradre reboot which gave the yellow configuration of OS update sucessful)05:58
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goodwilljebba: nice!!!!06:04
goodwilljebba, I love cryptsetup06:04
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goodwillthere does not seem a way to adjust the bluetooth bluetooth06:05
goodwillwhen I use media player to increase it ... it has no effect06:05
goodwilland the default is too low06:06
goodwillalsamixer does not seem to have a way to adjust it06:06
goodwillany ideas?06:06
phri get the impression they're still working the bugs out of the 900... i'm pretty hot to get one but am better off waiting for financial reasons among other things.06:13
goodwillI know that much ...06:13
goodwillits pulse audio though ... maybe there is a command line util06:13
phri still have a 770 that i've basically never used06:13
BirdFlewhow tricky is it to write a program which uploads the N900's gps coords to an ftp server at a certain interval?06:15
goodwillBirdFlew: security system?06:15
lcukBirdFlew, for you specifically or a generic configurable app06:16
BirdFlewyup06:16
BirdFlewinitially for myself06:16
BirdFlewnew to linux coding so i don't yet have the skills to polish an app for general release06:17
goodwillBirdFlew: probably not hard ...06:17
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BirdFlewyeah i imagine it's quite simple, i just don't know how to go about it... is python capable enough or will it require c/c++?06:18
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lcukthe coding is less, its getting it running at startup thats more a pita06:19
BirdFlewhmm, yeah06:20
Caesiumisn't there a standard way for statusbar widgets to start up?06:20
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goodwillBirdFlewyou can start it as a daemon06:20
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goodwillpython should do06:20
BirdFlewsweet06:20
lcukyeah Caesium but thats more involved coding wise06:20
lcukand do you want a gui showing user they are being tracked06:21
lcuko_O :D06:21
BirdFlewall i want for now is the basic backend06:21
CaesiumI guess you need the dbus methods for the gps coords first hten06:21
phrbirdflow doing it in python should be easy if the python std lib works06:21
Caesiumthen you can knock something up in python to get them and ftp it out06:22
phrthere is an ftp module06:22
goodwillBirdFlew: dbus to gps and use urllib to post the coords06:22
phror maybe there is a curl or wget port06:22
phrthose support ftp06:22
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BirdFlewbut ideally i'd like to put together a full blown security app... tracking, locking, sending msgs, pulling data etc06:22
jaemmornin'06:22
BirdFlewthanks a lot, goodwill06:22
phrhow much is a 770 worth these days06:22
phr?06:22
shinkamui50-100$06:22
jaemwho's the contact for the SDK VMs?06:22
phrthanks06:22
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BirdFlewthanks for the info guys06:23
Caesiumwould you need to tell the gps to get a lock separately or would it do it itself when you ask for coords?06:23
Caesiumnot looked at the gps dbus stuff06:23
jaemCaesium, I've never looked at it, but I'd guess the latter06:23
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jaemseeing how they do the rest of the wireless stuff06:24
jaemCaesium, just look it up on MXR06:24
jaemthat would probably tell you quickly enough06:24
Caesiummxr? I think you've pre-empted my next question, is there a decent database of all the dbus calls :)06:24
jaemCaesium, mxr.maemo.org (source code search/x-ref), and no06:25
jaem:(06:25
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jaemFYI, full-text searches on mxr are darn slow, so try to use other fields as much as possible06:25
jaemCaesium, unfortunately, not all of the D-Bus calls in Maemo are not introspectable, either06:26
jaemBluetooth isn't, for example - apparently due to legacy code06:26
phris there a reasonable programming interface to the high res camera>06:28
phr?06:28
jaemhmm... looks like MXR may not be updated to the new service pack06:28
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loft306so i see the 899 wants to install a new maemo506:32
loft306oops90006:32
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jaemloft306, the 899 isn't sold anymore ;)06:35
loft306lmao06:36
jaemloft306, it was from the same design team as the WE06:37
jaem-snerk-06:37
loft306i thought theas was sposed to be seamless.. the os updates..06:37
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loft306or is this still in a testing  catalogL06:37
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jaemloft306, it is seamless06:38
jaemjust not mandatory06:38
loft306lol06:38
jaemand that's a Good Thing (TM)06:38
loft306k06:38
loft306yepyep06:39
loft306i thought seemless was mandatory it'll do it for you without you being able to say no06:39
jaemloft306, naw, this is Linux06:39
jaemyour choice06:39
loft306yepyep06:40
Xisdibikcan the n900 grab the net connection from a laptop via BT/USB?06:40
jaemloft306, I like the fixes to the App Manager06:40
loft306thats whi i have a linux dewice06:40
jaemXisdibik, if it supports USB networking, then yes06:41
loft306so your on it jaem06:41
jaemI'd think so, but I've never tried06:41
jaemloft306, :)06:41
* loft306 goes for it06:41
ColdFyrethe new maemo5 on the n900 does not include an updated kerne!06:42
ColdFyrekernel, too06:42
jaemloft306, well, the App Manager drops you back at the same place in the list, rather than the beginning06:42
loft306yay!06:42
loft306that was a pita06:43
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TesterColdFyre: its just a pre-update.. the real one is coming later06:44
jaemTester, O RLY?06:45
* ColdFyre waits for the update that stops the random reboots :)06:45
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loft306lol ColdFyre  that sucks06:45
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loft306well nhe booted back up and all seems good to go06:47
jaem\o/06:47
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jaemyeah, so apparently Nokia shipped my prof 3 more N900s when he only asked for one06:48
jaemwoohoo06:48
jaemnow we have 506:48
* jaem strokes his N90006:48
loft306lol06:48
loft306the'll bill him later06:48
jaemloft306, no, they're donated in some fashion06:48
loft306or is this for dev?06:49
jaemloft306, research project06:49
loft306ahh06:49
jaemwhich I'm getting *payed* for this semester :P06:49
loft306:)06:49
jaemalthough I guess you could say a loaner N900 was payment - they were going to use N97s before I volunteered and convinced them not to06:50
jaemheh06:50
loft306:)06:50
* ColdFyre cant wait for the n100006:52
lcukjaem, liqflow :p06:52
jaemColdFyre, me too06:52
ColdFyre1GB ram, 1.1ghz armv806:52
jaemColdFyre, naw06:52
jaemit comes with 16GB of RAM, and dual Xeons06:52
jaemand pwnies06:52
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ColdFyremm pwnies!06:52
jaemlcuk, yes, what about it?06:52
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz006:53
jaemlcuk, yes, what about it?06:53
loft306anymore 900's loose there usb ports since the few round the 2nd week of december?06:53
jaem:P06:53
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jaemloft306, are you asking if the ports are loose, or if they magically disappeared?06:53
* lcuk dunks jaem in a pot of glue and sticks him to the wall06:53
jaemlcuk, I wasn't sure of your context - I've seen the vid ages ago06:54
loft306the loose port bit jaem06:54
Caesiumhm, N900 doesn't support being a modem over bluetooth? messing with pairing it with my laptop but it only supports file transfer and a couple of other useless things, according ot laptop06:54
lcuku have more n900s than me06:54
jaemCaesium, I think there's an app that does it06:54
jaemlcuk, well, none of them are mine06:54
jaemalso, you stink XP06:54
ColdFyreholy crap, watching that viid, i just relaized there is a spot for a lanyardon the n90006:54
Caesiumjaem: ah ok, I'll have a look, ta :)06:55
loft306lol06:55
lcuklol ColdFyre06:55
loft306just gotta find one to install ColdFyre06:55
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ColdFyrealready have one from my old freerunner06:55
ColdFyreoh yeah, i am badass now.06:56
UndrwaterColdFyre: comparison?06:56
ColdFyrethe FR vs n900?06:56
loft306swing it till it flies away there ColdFyre06:56
UndrwaterColdFyre: yes06:56
ColdFyrethere is none06:56
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ColdFyreFR is slow, has many hardware glitches(issues charging from non ac apadters, gsm buzz, low gsm volume)06:57
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UndrwaterColdFyre: how do you usually use your phone? did you have smartphne before?06:58
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ColdFyrei went from moto a780 to FR to n900, i used them for daily usage(web/email/sms/mms)06:58
UndrwaterColdFyre: calendaring at all?06:59
jaemLOL... (from an app's ChangeLog): "Significantly unbreak feature foo"06:59
jaemthat's not very reassuring06:59
ColdFyreif you mean by using it for scheduling meetings, yes07:00
ColdFyreand as alarm clock :)07:00
UndrwaterColdFyre: syncing and such?07:00
ColdFyrethe freerunner is built like a rock, i dropped it on concrete many times, the n900 looks like it would shatter07:01
ColdFyrei never did syncing, but i know it was done commonly by others07:01
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ColdFyrenow i'm going to wear my n900 around my neck like all of the cool people with ipods and iphones, nyuh!07:03
loft306now youll trip and fall on it07:03
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ColdFyremy e-penis isn't _that_ big07:06
ColdFyreoh, you mean the phone07:06
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Proteousthe fm transmitter in the n900 is way better then in the n9707:08
Proteousall around more powerfull and doesn't seem to pick up the gsm noises either07:08
Proteousdon't know for sure on that last part yet07:08
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jaemProteous, there's an app in (devel? testing? -shrug) that apparently Boosts the Power (TM)07:17
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Proteousheh07:20
hardakersigh...  don't have enough disk space to install 'the' update...07:20
hardakerwhimper.07:20
jaemhardaker, really?  Are you doing this through apt, or HAM?07:21
hardakerHAM?  I was doing it through the application manager.07:21
hardakerI haven't tried apt, but I thought about it.07:21
jaemhardaker, HAM==Hildon-Application-Manager07:21
hardakerah.07:21
hardakerthen HAM it is.07:21
jaemhardaker, I was asking because HAM handles downloads that don't fit in the package cache properly, whereas apt does not07:22
hardakerf /07:22
hardakerFilesystem           1k-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on07:22
hardakerrootfs                  233104    216532     12292  95% /07:22
jaemso if it was apt giving you the error, I was going to tell you that was why07:22
Caesiumouch.07:22
jaemeep07:22
hardakerheh.07:22
hardakerwonder where it went...  that's the problem with a small file system.07:22
jaemdo you have stuff from -devel installed, or just a heck of a lot of other stuff?07:22
Caesiumrebooted recently?07:22
jaemthat too07:22
Caesiumicon cache can free up some.07:22
hardakerlots of stuff from -devel, of course ;-)07:22
hardakerand yes, that's a recent reboot.07:22
jaemhardaker, :)07:22
hardakerI keep meaning to write a perl or python script to list all packages and the space in / they take up.07:24
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hardakermaybe now I'll be motivated.07:24
jaemhardaker, I'm pretty sure there already is one for *buntu or such07:25
jaemnot sure what language, though07:25
jaembut I'm sure it's been done.  multiple times07:25
hardakeryeah, but it needs to be somewhat specific to n900...  ie, you need the partition info.07:25
hardakerme too.07:25
jaemoh, that07:25
jaemsorry - misread07:25
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hardakerthere are a lot of things that do that generically....  (kflashlight or something was a popular one from kde)07:26
jaemfilelight, you mean?07:26
jaemyeah, but I meant with apt07:26
hardakerthat was it, yeah.07:26
hardakeranyway...  gotta go tuck a kid into bed....  thanks for the sympothy.07:27
jaemhardaker, surprisingly, I actually like whatever GNOME's equivalent of that is better than Filelight, despite being a devoted KDE fan07:27
hardakeroff to uninstall things.07:27
jaembetter presentation of data, IMO07:27
jaemcheers07:27
hardakerjaem: I like whatever works!07:27
lucentOvi store for N900 open finally huh07:28
jaemlucent, really?07:28
* jaem goes to check it out07:28
lucentwith the over-the-air update07:28
lucentand it doesn't work with the bookmark pre-installed on N90007:29
lucentyou must go to store.ovi.com or similar07:29
lucentit's open on the 11th, rebate deadline was the 8th07:29
lucentfan-freaky-tastic.07:29
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jaemwoo07:29
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jaemhmm... the Ovi store is shiny, but I'm not exactly sure why it's necessary, at least for apps07:36
jaemwhy not just make a shinier UI for HAM? Or am I missing something?07:36
lucentapps that cost money07:36
lucentI think07:36
jaemlucent, of which there are none yet, as far as I can see07:36
jaemand even so, with no DRM, how is that superior?07:36
jaem...not that DRM would make it better, but just sayin'07:37
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lucentit's a market positioning thing to (my opinion) to compete with Apple07:37
lucentwho bloody knows07:37
lucentit's there and I think a week too late for those of us US buyers who were promised a $50 prepaid VISA card rebate to sign up for Ovi store and mail our rebate form *before* the 8th Jan 201007:38
jaemlucent, that sounds reasonable07:38
jaemby which I mean that it sounds like something that they'd do, not that reason was involved07:38
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jaemwell, I'm sure they'll extend that... they look bad enough not having it out for launch without going back on that07:38
lucentIt's too bad we don't have ringtone-per-contact07:39
lucentI want a "mute" ringtone option for this number that keeps robo-dialing me07:39
lucentit's annoying beyond reason.07:40
jaemlucent, too bad it's probably not a real number07:40
jaemotherwise you might be able to just script something back at them07:40
lucentjaem: it's T-Mobile's collections department dialing me07:40
jaemlucent,07:41
lucentI've tried, T-Mobile reps are helpless to stop it07:41
jaemlucent, ah... then that may not be a wise move, bill-wise07:41
jaem-snerk-07:41
jaem:(07:41
lucentthey suggested I change my phone number!07:41
lucentthe insanity.07:41
jaemlucent, wow... is it a third party contracted to do it, or T-Mo themselves?07:41
lucentbest suggestion I had so far was to set my ringtone for that number to mute07:42
jaemI've gotten similar calls for someone that used to live in my house, and I know how you feel07:42
lucentit's an 877 toll free area code number dialing me and owned by T-Mobile07:42
lcukhy is it dialing you tho07:42
jaemit probably took about 10 times of actually waiting to talk to a real person and telling them that the person didn't live there any more, before they gave up07:42
jaemgah07:42
lcukwhat does it say07:42
lucentlcuk: T-Mobile has a bug in their collections system07:42
lucentthinks I'm overdue for a payment of service that hasn't occurred yet07:43
jaemlucent, bwahahaah... um, er, sorry ^^07:43
lucenteven the reps I talk to are like "SRSLY?! this succccks"07:43
[Tycho]There is no blacklisting in n900 ?07:43
[Tycho]Can you sue them ?07:43
lucent[Tycho]: cost of filing lawsuit? a lot of money here inUSA07:44
Proteousswitch to google voice, then you can block them :)07:44
* lcuk does not see the specifics07:44
lucent*in USA07:44
lucentit's not like um Germany or something07:44
lcukbut usually if its a robo machine and its misdialing you, it will be misdialing lots07:44
* Caesium would like to start developing some phone feature apps but the lack of documentation is offputting07:45
lucentProteous: not a bad idea actually07:45
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Caesiumstuff like return busy/forward to voicemail for certain numbers07:45
[Tycho]lucent, aren't those cost paid by losing side, not you ?07:45
lcuklucent, contract payment timing issue07:45
lucentProteous: does that require an internet connection? I only get EDGE and not very reliably07:45
lucent[Tycho]: cost is paid by the person filing the lawsuit07:45
jaemCaesium, I know what you mean.  If you're really stuck, the source does often have the corporate addresses for the actual devs07:45
Proteousnot for most of the functionality07:45
jaemthe guy I contacted for a clarification was pretty helpful07:45
Proteousif you want to use SMS through google voice it does07:46
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Caesiumjaem: for instance, for that example I'm thinking I'd need to know via dbus when a call is incoming (I think I've seen the dbus for that) and how to tell the phone to forward it (which I haven't seen)07:46
lucent[Tycho]: you can file a lawsuit to recover the costs plus damages, but that takes literally years to go through the legal system, and then if it ever gets a judgement... you've paid hundreds of thousands in legal costs already beyond the settlement ammount07:46
Caesiumbut the phone app is closed source so that's a dead end? :(07:46
jaemCaesium, two things - firstly, there's a call forwarding app/widget/something in the repos07:46
jaemcheck if that's FOSS07:47
lucentProteous: thanks for the advices :)07:47
lcuklucent, or make the month payment and live happily ever after07:47
jaemsecondly, these should help you with D-Bus: http://adrestia.creativemisconfiguration.com/files/ffejery/maemo/qt/07:47
jaemhappy birthday07:47
lucentlcuk: the payment for 2 months ahead of my current billing period?07:47
lucentno way07:47
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jaembe warned that the UI is really unsuited for the N900, though07:47
* lcuk was on quarterly billing for ages07:47
jaemCaesium, the Qt packages aren't built with those tools by default, but qdbusviewer should be a lot of help07:48
jaemI threw them up there for that reason07:48
* Caesium looking for that app, probably a good start07:48
lucentwell anyhow I'd be interested in a workaround like Proteous says, and an update to allow me to call forward certain numbers to voicemail without ringing07:48
CaesiumE: Unable to find a source package for callforwarding07:49
Caesiumboo.07:49
lcukjaem source for the package?07:49
lcukerrr app07:49
jaemto whoever was asking for BT tethering earlier, it's in -testing07:49
jaemlcuk, Caesium well, I doubt it's called that07:49
Caesium  Applet that allows defining busy, no answer, not available and07:49
Caesium  unconditional call forwarding separately07:49
Caesiumis that not the one you meant?07:49
Caesiumthat's 'callforwarding'07:49
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jaemCaesium, oh, sorry - missed what you said :P07:50
jaemCaesium, is this in sbox?07:50
Caesiumno, on my device07:50
Caesiumapt-get source callforwarding07:50
jaemCaesium, oh, yeah - the deb-src lines aren't in the sources.list on there07:50
Caesiumoh maybe I need a deb-src line for testing07:50
CaesiumI added my own for extras07:50
* Caesium adds one for extras-testing too07:50
jaemCaesium, if you have a blog, consider posting some entry-level howtos on stuff like this07:51
jaemI've been meaning to for some of the BT stuff, in lieu of proper docs07:51
Caesiumooh there we go07:51
Caesium-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       334853 Dec 16 17:33 callforwarding_0.3.1.tar.gz07:51
Caesium:)07:51
jaemalso, tutorials on potentially popular things like that are helpful, even with good docs07:51
CaesiumI'll see what that can tell me07:51
jaemyay07:51
lucentI don't really have a need to play beethoven sympthony when Ned Flanders calls07:53
lucentjust mute certain incoming numbers or callforward to voicemail07:53
CaesiumI'm wondering if quickly setting up divert when a problematic number is calling will work, then turning it off again once they've gone07:53
tigertGeneralAntilles: looking07:54
tigertinteresting07:54
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jaemwazd, hi07:55
wazdjaem: heya07:55
wazdmornin all07:55
RST38hheya wazd07:59
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wazdRST38h: http://lotro.ucoz.ru/Mer_boot_4.avi <- check it out, I'm thinking of remaking this video as Marina theme bootsplash :)08:04
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jaemwazd, is there audio in that?08:05
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RST38hwazd: caustic effects!08:06
Caesiumgrumble talk.maemo.org gave me a page fine a minute ago, now it won't for love nor money08:07
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wazd_e63hmm, wireless irc client is kinda cool08:09
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RST38hheh08:09
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Caesiumlucent: if you can get it to load, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=465403 may be of interest08:10
wazd_e63Rst38h: it has nick auto completion!08:10
Caesiumdiscussion about a call rejector08:10
wazdjaem: not yet08:10
wazdjaem: but I'm thinking about it :)08:10
lucentCaesium: looking at the link now, thanks08:11
Caesiumcan't tell if a working app came out of it because I only got to look at page 3 of the discussion, now it won't load anymore08:11
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Caesiumbut a simple python app might be enough from what I saw, just a couple of dbus methods08:12
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lucentt.m.o on fire?08:12
Proteousdidn't t.m.o just upgrade to a n900?08:12
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jaemProteous, yeah, but garage is still waiting for them to retire an N80008:14
jaem:)08:14
ProteousI see ;)08:14
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jaemdisclaimer: I have no issue with garage personally - I just think the joke is funny08:14
Undrwaterdo the n900 calendar alarms vibrate?08:14
lcukyes08:14
jaemUndrwater, clock alarms also override mute, I believe08:15
jaemcalendar alarms don't08:15
jaemthat may be configurable08:15
lcukyes, its called dont set an alarm08:15
Undrwaterjaem: but they do vibrate for events / appointments?08:15
jaemthe rationale, I suppose, is that clock alarms are actual *alarms*, as opposed to "reminders"08:15
jaemUndrwater, yes08:15
tigertyea08:15
jaemdepending on your profile settings08:15
Undrwatergood08:15
tigertand theres pretty regular usecase for muting phone for night08:16
Undrwateroh! voice recording? voice notes? any apps for that...or a nice hardware button?08:16
tigertand still wanting to wakeup at 7am08:16
Proteousif you set a clock alarm to go off when you are in a meeting you get what you deserver for being dumb08:16
Caesiumthere is a voice recording app in extras, yes08:16
jaemUndrwater, yeah, that's one thing that annoyed me with the N810, which I previously used for calendaring08:16
Undrwatertigert: via accellerometers?08:16
tigertUndrwater: not via accelerometers automatically08:16
tigertthat would be bad08:17
tigertimagine ther phone in your backpack08:17
Undrwatertigert: face down = dnd08:17
tigertit would silence accidentally too easily when you toss the bag on your bed after work08:17
tigertbut it silences incoming calls like that08:17
Undrwaterbut only between 10:00pm and 6:00am08:17
tigertif you get a call, flip it face down to silence08:18
* lcuk never puts device facedown08:18
Undrwaternice08:18
Undrwaterlcuk: dun wanna dis your device?08:18
lcuktigert, held facedown or have to put it on desk like you hung up08:18
tigerti guess it would be easy to hack a tool to switch profiles based on time of day08:18
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jaemtigert, one would hope08:18
tigertmaybe hook this via alarm framework even08:19
jaemthat would actually be pretty cool08:19
Undrwaterwe talked about it for OM...slow going :P08:19
lcukUndrwater, its just risking random scratches08:19
tigertbut the problem with automatic shit is, how much is too much?08:19
Undrwatertigert: like kde?08:19
Proteouswhen it cooks me breakfast then it's almost too much08:19
Proteousbut not quite08:19
Undrwater:D08:19
lcukspeaking of which, i absent mindedly picked up my "stylus" and was about an inch away from writing something08:20
jaemtigert, I know what you mean... for some things, I feel better if I can just open vim and mess with things with the assurance that the config won't magically change on me08:20
tigertheh08:20
lcukbefore i realised it was the tweezers08:20
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jaemlcuk, :O08:20
Proteousheh08:20
tigertyeah08:20
goodwilllcuk: there is a bright side to this08:20
tigertlcuk: :)08:20
goodwilllcuk: it was not a steak flag08:20
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goodwillflag=knife08:20
UndrwaterBT headset works well?08:21
tigertor a stick of superglue08:21
tigertUndrwater: yes08:21
lcuktho on the upside, i got a highscore with n900fly08:21
jaemlcuk, >_<08:21
lcuk:O tt08:21
tigertUndrwater: ask konttori_nokia08:21
jaemI hope you were doing this in a foam pit :P08:21
tigertUndrwater: he has this nice nokia bt stereo headset08:21
Undrwatertigert: regarding BT?08:21
tigertwith his own headphones08:21
* jaem heads off to the gymnastics center ;)08:21
lcukjaem, you not gonna ask08:22
lcukhow high08:22
jaemlcuk, *sigh* how high08:22
lcuk:D08:22
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Undrwatertigert: how bout that in-car BT support thingy? pbab?08:22
lcuk2.51m o_O08:22
jaemlcuk, >_<08:22
tigertlcuk: hehe08:22
lcukencased inside my sleeping bag tho08:22
jaemUndrwater, not sure - there's a bug08:22
tigertN900Fly tournament? ;)08:22
jaemor at least, it turned into a bug about that08:22
lcuktigert, indeed, i put it in the middle of my bag08:22
jaemUndrwater, it started off with people moaning about the N900 not supporting a non-standard HFP extension08:23
jaemlol08:23
lcukafter i banged it on one of first attempts08:23
tigertlcuk: dude DUDE08:23
lcukon the ceiling08:23
lcuk:$08:23
tigertlcuk: this SO needs to be done in a model rocket with parachute recovery08:23
tigertimagine!08:23
lcuk:D:D:D lardman does rockets08:23
tigert"1854m"08:23
lcuktrebucet would get the flight time08:23
Undrwateris lardman part of this community?08:24
lcukhahaha08:24
Caesiumtigert: wouldn't that mess with the reading? I thought it used freefall condition to measur height :P08:24
tigert=)08:24
lcukyes08:24
jaemlcuk, what's the accel range on the chip?08:24
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lcukout of this world08:24
ProteousI get my tmobile sim tomorrow, if the data connection even works at all around 2pm then it is automaticly better then ATT08:24
jaemdoes anyone know offhand which IC it is?08:24
jaemor at least who makes it?08:24
tigertCaesium: there is acceleration when you therow it too08:24
lcukCaesium, yeah it does08:24
lcukhence rockets not perfect08:24
Undrwatermany zaurus users here?08:24
goodwillovi store works pretty well08:24
Caesiumsomeone should take an N900 skydiving with n900fly loaded :P08:25
tigertlcuk: even throwing the device created positive G08:25
jaemI'll be back later... poke me if you need to08:25
lcukCaesium, yeah!08:25
tigertdoes it measure the fall or the rise?08:25
Proteousthe fall08:25
Proteoususeless to measure the rise08:25
Proteousunless you are trying to stop people from dropping it off their roof for a high score I guess08:26
BirdFlewpython is amazing... i've gone from never having seen an example of its source code to writing a functional gps coordinate uploader in two hours :-D08:26
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Proteousnice08:26
Caesiumnice one :)08:26
rkc_anybody using xchat for this irc?08:26
ShadikkaBirdFlew: Isn't it? <308:26
Proteous*cough*irssi*cough*08:26
fluxhmm, it doesn't measure both the rise and fall?08:26
ProteousI don't know, just speculating08:26
UndrwaterProteous: you're not using irssi??08:26
lcukBirdFlew, so we can tell if you fly south for the winter?  and if you do, could you install n900fly too :D08:27
ProteousI am08:27
Undrwateron the phone?08:27
rkc_nope.. on ubuntu08:27
Proteousby proxy08:27
Undrwaterahh...08:27
Proteoussshed into my server running a screen session with irssi08:27
BirdFlewi'm already south for the winter mate, in australia08:27
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BirdFlewand it's very, very far from winter now08:27
Undrwaterthat's lovely...doing this from my phone! :)08:27
Proteous:)08:27
Proteousthe return key doesn't work in mutt though :/08:28
rkc_Undrwater:which client do u use?08:28
|RHas mymenu any chance of interfering with future updates (PR1.[12) ?08:28
Proteousgotta see what I can do about that08:28
Undrwaterrkc_: for phone?08:28
rkc_i am trying to use xchat.. but it doesnot connect tot he irc server08:28
rkc_irc.freenode.net/8001 is my server setting08:29
Proteouswhy 8001?08:29
Undrwaterrkc_: for most things i use pidgin...phone is openmoko...considering move to n90008:29
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Undrwateri used irssi when i had a server08:29
rkc_Undrwater: I am trying to setup in my linux desktop08:29
BirdFlewrkc_, i'm using xchat08:29
rkc_BirdFlew: Please tell me your server settings08:30
Undrwaterrkc_: how are you talking to us?08:30
rkc_webchat.freenode.net08:30
rkc_:)08:30
Undrwaterahh08:30
rkc_any help?08:31
pupniknokia provides what openmoko lacked08:31
BirdFlewirc.freenode.net, which redirects to chat.freenode.net:666708:31
Proteousrkc_ try not using port 800108:32
lucentProteous: wait until they turn collections robo-dial on your account08:32
BirdFlewfreenode was simply already on a preloaded list of servers in xchat08:32
rkc_then what si the port to use, Proteous?08:32
phrtalk.maemo.org down ?08:32
Proteouslucent: heh08:32
lucentProteous: oh except that you have a workaround - Google Voice :)08:32
* RST38h once again considers making xchat autojoin #maemo by default08:32
Proteousrkc_: don't specify a port and it will use the standard irc port of 666708:33
rkc_BirdFlew: yes.. i found that and tried configuring with chat.freenode.net:666708:33
lucentProteous: FYI I moved from being a longer-than-5-years customer of AT&T (formerly Cingular) toward T-Mobile08:33
Undrwateris skype already on the n900? or is that future?08:33
phrincluded i think08:33
lucentUndrwater: Skype is "integrated"08:33
BirdFlewphr: yeah i'm having trouble reaching it08:33
Proteouslucent: ATTs data has really got to shit in my town08:33
Proteouslucent: it doesn't really work at all during the day08:33
BirdFlewrkc_: no luck?08:33
Undrwaterlucent: does that mean anything? ;)08:33
lucentProteous: yuck about that08:34
rkc_BirdFlew: nop luck08:34
lucentUndrwater: well it's not a full Skype client08:34
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Proteouslucent: I blame all the iphone users08:34
rkc_do i need nicksever password?08:34
BirdFlewrkc_: can you connect to any other irc servers?08:34
rkc_and server password_08:34
Proteousrkc_: no08:34
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BirdFlewnah08:34
Proteousrkc_: no08:34
rkc_BirdFlew: no..08:34
lucentUndrwater: I can't find out how to initiate a text chat with multiple Skype users from the N900, but if one is initiated and a participant speaks, you can participate and talk with them08:34
Undrwaterlucent: what's it missing?08:34
Proteoussounds like a network/firewall problem08:34
rkc_Proteous: looks like.. how can i check whether some program is blocking me to use that?08:35
Undrwaterlucent: video support?08:35
lucentUndrwater: authorizing contacts to see your online presence after-the-fact is not really exposed, so I don't know if it can be done08:35
lucentUndrwater: don't know about video call support08:35
BirdFlewas a side note, anyone know a shortcut key for nick completion in xchat? N900 has no tab key :-(08:35
Proteousrkc_: uh08:35
lucentUndrwater: I know that the kernel driver for the forward facing webcam hardware on the N900 is mis-configuring the hardware08:36
lucentit looks very very badly08:36
lucentunusable for anything08:36
Proteousrkc_: answering that would require lots of details about your setup that I don't have time to get into now08:36
Undrwaterouch08:36
rkc_Proteous: thats fine.. no problem.. I will check out here08:36
CaesiumBirdFlew: try shift-space? (semi-random guess)08:36
lucentUndrwater: Skype voice dialing is just like any other option when calling a contact, it works08:36
Undrwaterrkc_: start xchat from the command line and see if it's telling you anything useful08:37
Undrwaterlucent: that's nice...how about SIP?  any good clients?08:37
BirdFlewCaesium: thanks, it worked08:37
lucentUndrwater: like, "Don't pet a burning dog. Now starting xchat..."08:37
BirdFlew:-)08:37
Undrwaterhehee08:38
* Undrwater considers re-doing his asterisk box08:38
lucentUndrwater: I haven't tried SIP dialing but that too is integrated08:38
Proteousdrink more ovaltine08:39
lucentSIP, Skype, and cellular calls are all options when dialing a contact08:39
ProteousSIP MORE OVALTINE!08:39
ProteousI've actualy never had ovaltine08:39
Proteouswonder if it's gross08:39
Undrwaterhuh...add $100 for a decent fxo,fxs card08:39
UndrwaterProteous: i used to love it08:39
* lucent notices Proteous growing out "Annie orphan" hairstyle08:40
Undrwaterback when i loved anything sweet08:40
Proteouslucent: and my eyes are slowly losing their pupils08:40
lcukRST38h, doesnt the nick need configuring too08:40
Proteousnick huh08:40
Undrwaterfinally...ATT users happy with n900?08:40
Proteous?08:41
lcukgood idea tho if you can get reasonable nick first08:41
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ProteousI'm an ATT user and I am happy with my n900 but I am not happy with ATT08:41
lucent+1 for Pro08:41
* lucent stabs irssi client08:41
Proteoustomorrow I will not be and ATT user08:41
UndrwaterProteous: i was going to make sure that the reverse was NOT the question ;)08:41
Proteousheh08:41
UndrwaterProteous: moving to tmobile?08:42
Proteousyeah08:42
loft306:)08:42
Undrwaterreasons?08:42
lucentI'm not happy with T-mobile robo-dialing me to collect payment08:42
Proteousgonna ride the $10 unlimited data plan for as long as they let me08:42
lucent...at 7AM08:42
loft306lol lucent  that is a pita08:42
ProteousUndrwater: becuase ATT data is broken in my town08:42
UndrwaterProteous: what town?08:42
ProteousUndrwater: and undisclosed location in California08:43
Proteouss/and/an/08:43
infobotProteous meant: Undrwater: an undisclosed location in California08:43
Proteousnorth of san fancisco08:43
Proteousman, my typing is horrible today08:43
UndrwaterProteous: ahh, ok...i'm socal, but i can't afford data anyway08:43
lucentProteous: I'm doing exactly this with T-Mobile, it's an "FlexPay Even More Plus 500" plan and then I add $10/mo unlimited internet access, total after taxes is $45.06/mo08:43
Proteouslucent: yeah, that's what I got08:44
Undrwaterkills me that i can't buy a smart phone without data08:44
Proteouslucent: dont' really talk much, 500 minutes is fine for me08:44
Undrwaterlucent: that include sms?08:44
lucentProteous: there's a line control charge $5/mo so you can get that waived if you're signed up for automatic payment ("EasyPay")08:44
Proteouslucent: they hid the flexpay options, had to hunt around on howardforums for the direct link to it08:44
lucentno SMS here08:44
Proteouslucent: yeah, I signed up for the autopay08:45
Undrwaterlucent: for real?08:45
lucentProteous: trying to sign up for flexpay was a freaking nightmare here, lucky you found a direct link08:45
Undrwaterlucent: your teenagers must be outraged08:45
lucent"Sir, your credit score is too good, I cannot sign you up for FlexPay"08:45
Proteouslucent: it was still sorta annoying, for the non flexplay EMP plan you could get a sim only, they didn't have the option for flexpay EMP08:46
lucentUndrwater: I've never had a need for SMS, that whole concept eludes me to this day.08:46
luke-jrteenagers have no business making cell phone calls to anyone other than family08:46
Proteouslucent: had to by a $40 nokia phone08:46
Proteousbuy08:46
lucentProteous: yuck? :P08:46
Proteousheh, guess it's good as a backup once I can pawn my n97 off on someone...08:46
Proteous(still bitter about buying a n97 right before the n900 came out)08:47
Undrwaternot sure how it goes anywhere else, but socal teens have their noses in their phones texting all day....even when around their friends08:47
Proteousif I want to deal with switching everyone over to using my google voice number I can text for free though google voice08:47
Undrwateranyone here wanna buy an openmoko?08:47
Undrwater:)08:47
Proteousheh08:47
luke-jrUndrwater: for the right price08:48
ProteousI have a n810 floating around too...08:48
Undrwaternot sure what the right price is...08:48
lucentN900 is not the ultimate or anything near it08:48
Proteouslucent: yes it is!08:48
lucentMaemo is just very nice, the best I've seen for a mobile device OS08:48
Proteouslucent: you prefer something with winmo on it?08:48
lucentN900 runs Maemo. That's a deal maker for me08:48
luke-jrUndrwater: which phone?08:48
Undrwaterluke-jr: a5 w/ buzzfix08:49
Undrwatergta0208:49
Proteouslucent: the n900 still has teh new phone glow on it08:49
luke-jrProteous: software can be replaced wben/if someone finally releases a phoen that runs real Linux08:49
Proteousfor me anyway08:49
Undrwaterluke-jr: maemo is not real linux?08:49
luke-jrno, Maemo uses a fork/branch off Linux for now08:50
ProteousUndrwater: if Linus didn't write it himself it's not real linux08:50
Proteous:P08:50
luke-jrProteous: Linus doesn't write much really, just maintains the tree08:50
ProteousI know :)08:50
lucentProteous: at the moment my N900 lacks functionality that I frequently used on my Nokia 611208:50
Proteousmore like a gatekeeper nowdays08:50
Undrwaterkernel is not from upstream?08:50
luke-jrUndrwater: I almost got a pair Freerunner + Neo1973 off ebay for $125 combined.08:50
luke-jrUndrwater: kernel has roots upstream, but no, it isn't vanilla upstream08:51
Proteouslucent: is the 6112 a s60 phone?08:51
lucentProteous: Yeah, great guess too... well it's symbian I think whatever AT&T's GoPhones are08:51
Undrwaterluke-jr: that's scary...maybe more valuable to keep it08:51
luke-jrUndrwater: >_<08:52
Undrwateri'll use it as my asterisk box08:52
lucentProteous: strictly talking about using this as a phone, the N900 is kind of low on the usefulness ladder08:52
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luke-jrUndrwater: fact is, however, there is not a single pocket device that mainline runs on AFAIK08:52
Undrwaterlucent: how do you qualify that statement?08:52
luke-jrat least not of the current generation08:53
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Proteouslucent: what features are you missing on the n900?08:53
Undrwaterluke-jr: i believe zaurus is now mainlined ;)08:53
luke-jrUndrwater: yes, that's like 3 or 4 generations old now though: )08:53
Undrwaterbut you're right...current generation08:53
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Undrwaterdon't call my Tosa OLD!! >:(08:54
lucentUndrwater: battery capacity not enough to keep me going all day without having to stop for a charge, bluetooth requires more keypresses, no ringtone-per-contact08:54
luke-jrand unfortunately, the alternative to Maemo is Android, which is ever further from mainline -.-08:54
lucentvolume button inconsistencies make me absolutely frustrated08:54
Proteousheh08:55
Undrwaterlucent: what's with the BT and keypresses?08:55
lucentswitching ringtone profiles from hardware keys08:55
Undrwaterluke-jr: there's webOS too08:55
Undrwateris there voice recognition on the n900?08:56
Termana_n810luke-jr - the SmartQ 5 (Samsung S3C6410) has been mainlined in .32 - untested, but it there and compiles08:56
lucentthe N900 is not a terribly good phone, that's all I am getting at08:56
Termana_n810its*08:56
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lucentI absolutely love using Maemo on the N900 though08:57
Undrwatermy busted up treo is still in use :P08:57
lucentis t.m.org under some kind of attack?08:58
Proteouslucent: I haven't had my n900 long enough to figure out what functions are missing08:58
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Undrwaterraster is partnering with samsung08:58
Proteouslucent: but the phone functionality only has to be passable to please me, I value the internet tablet part more08:58
BirdFlewditto, Proteous08:59
lucentProteous: agreed, same here08:59
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Proteouslucent: I was totaly blown away with how user friendly and just all around amazing the contact manager was08:59
tigertluke-jr: I thought most linux distros ship a tuned/customized kernel08:59
lucentcontact manager needs some kind of accelerometer hack to scroll faster08:59
BirdFlewand the internet functionality makes my previous winmo device look very clunky by comparison08:59
lucentand portrait mode to show more per screenfull08:59
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tigertlucent: N900 is not a smartphone like the symbian ones09:00
tigertits a small computer that also does phone stuff09:00
ProteousI imported my contacts from my sim card and went through them to clean them up and every time I though, "you know, it sure would be nice if I could say, switch this number from cell to home without copying it and pasting it into the other field... Oh shit, I can"09:00
lucenttigert: In that context, it's really a great device :)09:00
Proteousthere were a bunch of similar things like that09:00
Undrwatertigert: distros may patch the kernel...wich goes back to mainline...forked kernel patches don't make it back09:00
tigertlucent: yeah09:00
luke-jrTermana_n810: including board data?09:01
tigertlucent: I missed the per-contact ringtone stuff too,09:01
tigertbut then again, wtf09:01
tigert:)09:01
lucent:)09:01
luke-jrtigert: most distros ship a custom kernel, but still work with vanilla.09:01
lucentthe UI approach would be so easy09:01
tigertwouldnt switch back to my N95 just for that09:01
lucentadd a contact detail that is the ringtoone09:01
Proteouslucent: I'm sure they will add that functionality soon09:01
BirdFlewi'm still stoked by the little things, like that i was able to head down to the local cafe, have a cappachino and return home without leaving this irc session. freedom is a wonderful thing09:01
luke-jrTermana_n810: regardless, the definition I use for 'handheld' includes a keyboard09:01
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tigertluke-jr: well, if you have a stock PC a vanilla kernel might make sense09:01
luke-jrtigert: there is no such thing as a stock PC09:02
tigertluke-jr: if you have a pretty specialized hw setup you usually build your own anyway09:02
Proteouscoming from my n97, the browser on the n900 is fucking amazing09:02
Termana_n810luke-jr,  board data as in specifications for the board?09:02
phranyone know anything about programming the high-res camera, i.e. is there a documented interface to /dev/camera or some such ?09:02
luke-jrhandhelds are far more stock than other PCs09:02
tigertluke-jr: a self-built kernel is not stock either :)09:02
luke-jrTermana_n810: as in the .c file that defines the device09:02
lucentphr: directly? or via Video4Linux209:02
tigertluke-jr: you mean you never used any non-upstream kernel driver or stuff for your custom hardware piece?09:02
Undrwaterdepends on how you define "self-built"09:02
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tigertluke-jr: of course we tuned the kernel so it works the best we can make it work09:03
luke-jrtigert: I don't create hardware. I don't buy hardware unless it's already supported upstream, or I have reason to believe will be.09:03
phrlucent, hmm, i hadn't thought about v4l, main thing is i want to be able to read images without running some app that records them to flash09:03
BirdFlewProteous: if i may suggest a *shudder* microsoft product... outlook migrated my contacts from a previous device complete with pictures and extra fields09:03
Termana_n810luke-jr, Yes none of it is closed source, its always been open source, it just got merged from samsungs  kernel09:03
luke-jrtigert: 'we'?09:03
BirdFlewsim card transfer can lose those extra details09:04
tigertluke-jr: I work for nokia09:04
lucentphr: pretty sure it's via v4l and /dev/videoN09:04
luke-jrTermana_n810: just because it is open does not imply it can be easily merged. good for them09:04
tigertlucent: just not in the kernel though09:04
tigertlucent: been hacking the theme template stuff09:04
luke-jrtigert: I see.09:04
lucentphr: 'mbarcode' package provides an example of using the rear facing 5.0MP camera to capture frames and detect barcodes09:04
ProteousBirdFlew: I didn't have any of that stuff setup in my previous device, cause the interface to do that shit on my previous device made me want to shoot myself09:04
Undrwatertigert: is the company excited about this device?09:05
tigertUndrwater: I am :D09:05
luke-jrtigert: well, Mameo's kernel is far from merely 'tuned'; real/mainline/Linus's/upstream Linux will not run on it, and in the case of the N810 will probably never do so at the current rate09:05
tigertUndrwater: I cannot speak for a company of course09:05
phrlucent, hmm, that sounds interesting, maybe i can adapt it09:05
phrthanks09:05
tigertbut we love our own puppy of course09:05
phrit's v4l for both video and still modes?09:05
luke-jrtigert: not to mention the GPL-workaround of putting drivers in userland to close them up.09:06
phris autofocus built into the camera or is there software required?09:06
tigertluke-jr: yeah09:06
tigertluke-jr: if you ask me, I am much of a freesoftware guy anyway09:07
lucentphr: I don't know09:07
tigertbut I can understand there might be reasons for this kind of stuff09:07
luke-jrtigert: anyhow, I have little trust for Nokia as a result of my N810 purchase which turned out to be false advertising as far as I'm concerned. probably won't buy any more handhelds without personally verifying the code for them exists in a mainlinable form.09:07
tigertbut keep argumenting in a sensible way towards the people working with the licensing area and things can change09:08
luke-jrtigert: for the 3D, I can understand; that half is normally userland anyway09:08
Termana_n810luke-jr, then it justs too bad the smartq's dont have keyboards - otherwise they would be perfect for you09:08
tigertluke-jr: openness is a continuous effort in a big organisation09:08
Termana_n810just*09:08
Termana_n810its*09:08
luke-jrTermana_n810: indeed. or Nexus One. ;)09:09
luke-jrthough the latter has Android cruft in its way of merging09:09
luke-jrbut I would hope since it's the first device with 512 MB RAM, someone might get around that anyway09:09
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Termana_n810luke-jr, i thought the Nexus One only had an onscreen keyboard?09:10
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luke-jrTermana_n810: right, but we were talking in theory of "too bad there's no keyboard" :P09:10
BirdFlewis there any way to turn off automatic capitalisation in pygteditor?09:10
phrlucent, thanks, i'll see if i can find some docs about it09:11
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luke-jralso, I'd probably want a 4" display09:11
Termana_n810luke-jr,  ahh ok :P09:11
luke-jror 5" I guess, if it really does fit in pockets09:11
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Proteousyou just need bigger pants09:13
luke-jrthe first company that builds a handheld with 4-5" display, 512 MB RAM, good keyboard, and real Linux, probably has guaranteed a purchase from me, even if it costs $800 or so.09:13
Undrwaterhang it from your neck09:13
luke-jr:p09:13
Termana_n810luke-jr, you could just build your own device :P09:13
luke-jrTermana_n810: oh really?09:13
luke-jrI wasn't aware building handhelds was that trivial :P\09:13
Undrwatergta02 core09:13
tigertBirdFlew: text input settings09:13
* Proteous wants to see luke-jr holding a 5" display with keyboard phone up to his head to take a call09:13
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Proteousit will feel like the 80's all over again09:14
Undrwaterluke-jr: gta02-core09:14
tigertBirdFlew: I think its a global thing, but there might be a per-widget flag too09:14
luke-jrProteous: I don't want a stupid phone ;)09:14
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* lucent +1 for Proteous 09:14
tigertluke-jr: that would be a minilaptop?09:14
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lucentanti-Zoolander09:14
luke-jrProteous: if it supports CDMA+3G+iDEN, that would be sweet though... usign a Bluetooth headset09:14
Undrwatermy Tosa with GSM09:14
Undrwater...and bluetooth09:14
Proteousluke-jr: there were some interesting large screen devices floating around at CES09:15
luke-jrtigert: sure, but one that I can carry around in my pocket. Zaurus SL-C760 was the perfect form factor IMO09:15
luke-jrUndrwater: and a sane amount of RAM09:15
Undrwaterindeed09:15
luke-jrideally with removable internal and external storage would be sweet too09:15
Undrwaterluke-jr: you mean NAND, of course?09:15
luke-jrI'd grab one of those super-fast SDs for it :p09:16
luke-jrUndrwater: no, RAM09:16
Termana_n810luke-jr - i didn't say it was particularly easy. It is doable however. Google "Beagleboard MID"09:16
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Undrwatertosa had...what...64?09:16
luke-jrUndrwater: right09:16
luke-jrUndrwater: next generation of smartphones (beginning with Nexus One) have 51209:16
Undrwaterluke-jr: and n900?09:16
luke-jrN900 is 256 MB09:17
luke-jrit's "current gen" :p09:17
luke-jrI could probably be convinced to go for 256 if everything else was OK, but not for $800 :P09:17
BirdFlewis nexus one that much more revolutionary than the n900 to call it next gen? or are you basing this on release dates09:18
luke-jrBirdFlew: I care about nothing other than the hardware.09:18
UndrwaterBirdFlew: maybe he's basing it on RAM ;)09:18
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luke-jrpretty much, in this case :)09:18
luke-jr512 MB is so much more useful than 256 MB09:18
BirdFlewor cpu... snapdragon sounds nice09:18
lucentN900 hardware lacks host usb support, and lacks multi-touch screen09:19
lucentresistive / capacitive is not the problem for the screen09:19
luke-jrQSD is really only a minor step up from OMAP309:19
BirdFlewi think you can do usb host with n900?09:19
lucentBirdFlew: show me, please?09:19
luke-jrBirdFlew: no09:19
phrthe 800/810 had usb otg but they apparently got rid of it in the 90009:19
BirdFlewgot an app which claims to do that... haven't tested it though09:19
luke-jrlucent: for resistive screens, multitouch is a software issue09:19
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sleipniri don't get why ppl want multitouch... have you guys ever tried to place more than one finger on a 3.5" screen?09:20
gandhiii think i just saw an app in gthe list for usb hosting09:20
luke-jrBirdFlew: it would probably require external hardware09:20
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Undrwaterlucent: eh? no usb host on n900?09:20
lucentluke-jr: are you suggesting that the N900 could be multi-touch enabled with only a software update?09:20
luke-jrlucent: in theory.09:20
luke-jrlucent: IIRC, there is a patent09:20
lucentlast I researched, it sounded like host usb and multi-touch were blocked by a lack of wires being connected etc.09:21
lcukthe theory would be pretty exceptional, you can do limited 2 touch and preconfigured hotzones09:21
Undrwateri remember the early adverts touted usb host09:21
Termana_n810luke-jr - i can't remember the name of it, but if we're talking about the same thing, i thought that didn't work very well.09:21
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM09:22
gandhiii'm no fan of iphone..  but 2 person air hockey was a good use of multitouch09:22
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lucentsleipnir: using the touch screen as a musical input controller is a "killer app"09:22
luke-jrTermana_n810: no idea, only read about it09:22
BirdFlewah.. program was called usbcontrol, according to a talk thread it's no real use09:22
lcukTermana_n810, luke-jr video i just posted09:22
luke-jrlcuk: it's Youtube. :P09:22
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lcukand?09:23
gandhiimusic pda apps have been around since palm os09:23
luke-jr= Flash = non-Free09:23
tigertluke-jr: become a hopper? those pants fit a thinkpad :)09:23
luke-jrtigert: -.-09:23
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Xisdibiklcuk: new job for you09:23
luke-jrtigert: Thinkpad is x86. :P09:23
lcukXisdibik, mm?09:24
luke-jrtigert: also, I can't type on a Thinkpad while I'm driving09:24
luke-jr<.<09:24
Xisdibiklcuk: n900 needs this ;)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyzSUyre5N809:24
Proteousluke-jr: don't type on anything while driving please, dont' do it for you, do it for us... please...09:24
lucentmicrophone as pressure sensor, multi-touch screen as virtual woodwind holes = instant breath synth controller09:24
luke-jrProteous: it's a good test for usability as a handheld? :P09:25
Proteous:P09:25
luke-jrProteous: in practice, I just want to restart kismet! :P09:25
lucentso to the point, lots of interesting uses for multi-touch on a tiny little screen09:25
jaem-poke- who was asking about an app to display disk usage/distribution a while back?09:25
Undrwaterhmmm...going to have to rethink the n900 choice if it doesn't have usb host09:25
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jaemwhoever it was, there's something that looks to be of that sort in -testing09:26
Proteoussome guy who can't boot his n900 anymore cause his rootfs is full09:26
lucentUndrwater: you will either want a phone, a computer, or a web browser in your pocket09:26
Undrwaterluke-jr: cvoicecontrol?09:26
lcukXisdibik, hah thats cool, theres a sheepdog game in development at the moment that has similar sorts of graphics and we hope to have multitple types of levels09:26
lcukthanks for link, im gonna post it there for ideas09:26
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Undrwaterlucent: in other words...not all three?09:26
luke-jrUndrwater: sound is not doable for N81009:26
luke-jrbut maybe :P09:27
luke-jrstill going to use typing-while-driving as a quality measurement though09:27
luke-jrXD09:27
lucentUndrwater: you still need to own a real computer and stuff.09:27
Xisdibiklcuk: np,  a game based off a true harvest moon game would also be good (ie,  farming!) :)09:27
lcukXisdibik, theres loads of scope for many games09:27
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Undrwaterlucent: yes...but i don't want 2 devices in my pocket09:27
Proteousjaem, it was hardaker09:28
Undrwaterand i want to be able to connect my dive computer to my pocket device09:28
luke-jrUndrwater: I want a computer. Ideally, with cell connectivity so I can replace phone w/ BT headset09:28
lucentUndrwater: I would like host usb for the novelty factor of plugging in a lot of scanning equipment, like barcode reader, rfid reader, EEPROM burner, and so on09:28
XisdibikEEPROM burner?09:28
luke-jrlucent: sounds like those should have a USB to Bluetooth adapter :P09:28
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BirdFlewi'd just like to plug flash drives in for quick and easy file transfer when out and about09:29
jaemlucent, even the use-case of pulling files off a flash key is important, but I'll take what I can get09:29
Undrwaterlucent: getting dive profile immediately would be a cool thing to see...iphone dive buddies would be envious09:29
Proteousgood luck finding a flash key with a micro USB plug...09:29
lucentjaem: ah, that one too is very sad I don't have host usb on N90009:29
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luke-jrBirdFlew: MicroSD + USB microSD reader?09:29
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luke-jrBirdFlew: or heck, just USB from device to PC :P09:30
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BirdFlewluke-jr: yeah that'd work, but i'd prefer to just plug a stick into the n900 and away we go09:30
lucentI found the best little USB microSD reader and  use it now -> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002HGFKR809:30
luke-jrBirdFlew: Pandora?09:31
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* BirdFlew googles pandora09:31
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lucenttaking off the case of my N900 to change out microSD is not the best in my mind, but oh well09:31
luke-jrBirdFlew: http://www.open-pandora.org/09:31
BirdFlewthanks09:31
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Undrwaterah well..night all...09:32
BirdFlewi really didn't want to filter through results referencing jewellery or avatar09:32
Proteousnite Undrwater09:32
BirdFlewnight Undrwater09:32
lucentBirdFlew: did my link fail?09:32
lucentoh, you are talking about pandora09:33
luke-jrlucent: WFM, looks neat09:33
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RST38bisumghello09:34
Termana_n810lcuk - ahh yes liqbase. no offense, i'm was just going off what i saw others say - though the video looks like it works fine09:34
lcukit does for the test case09:35
lcukand would work well as a keyboard modifier (for instance)09:35
lcukbut not for generic MT09:35
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* BirdFlew grumbles about the price of 32GB microsd memory09:36
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BirdFlewcan't i just glue four 8GB cards together? :-D09:36
luke-jr...09:36
lcuksure, why not09:37
Termana_n810lcuk - is liqbase in the repos or have you not released it to the general public?09:37
BirdFlewhehe09:37
Proteousno one is stoping you09:37
luke-jrBirdFlew: you can, but it wouldn't fit09:37
luke-jr<.<09:37
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Proteousyeah, you have to shave them down first09:37
* luke-jr ponders a chainable SD card09:37
lcukTermana_n810, the original liqbase was released over a year ago, the new framework is just having some tweaks, its a library now, theres some apps already in maemo extras - liqtorch and liqflow09:37
Proteoushttp://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=211495194&listingid=4674841709:37
lcukim guessing there will be another update in the v near future tho09:38
BirdFlewthey'll fit if i cram them in hard enough. nothing could go wrong!09:38
lcukwith more of the apps released as the integration stuff is ironed out09:38
phrlucent, i like the flat microusb readers that are about a dollar on dealextreme09:38
lucentphr: those are useful too :)   I find them too small for me though09:39
rosheniahi! no news about changelog for n900 new firmware?09:39
lucentroshenia: mostly stuff to enable use of Ovi store (store.ovi.com)09:39
rosheniawha?09:40
rosheniawhat you mean?09:40
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lucentexactly what I said, which part did you have a question about?  I don't have a changelog and I searched via Google to find a list of changes09:41
lucentlooked to me like misc bugfixes and getting ready for Ovi Store09:41
rosheniaahh...09:41
BirdFlewroshenia: also upgrade to app manager for related reasons09:42
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rosheniahehe. no ood updates09:43
roshenia=)09:43
tigertand fixes to enable a bigger fix update :)09:43
BirdFlewand it prepares the N900 for the 1.1 big update09:43
tigertyeah09:43
Termana_n810pfft that sounds like future assurance marketing to me09:44
RST38bisCharms from 'Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer' bracelets were measured at between 82 and 91 percent cadmium09:44
RST38biscoooool09:44
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lucentwhat's the procedure to swap an microSD card, must I always power off?09:44
* BirdFlew would love a way to copy and paste urls between his N900 and laptop09:44
BirdFlewlucent: apparently it's hot swappable09:44
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matmoHow to get rid of maemo menu button/window in a full screen non-hildonised app?09:45
lucentBirdFlew: I tried today and the result was no card inserted would be recognized09:45
Termana_n810BirdFlew, asciibin.com09:45
lucentBirdFlew: I did not see some kind of "refresh" button09:45
tigertlucent: the back cover has a switch09:46
tigertlucent: just do it :)09:46
tigertit unmounts it when you pull the cover09:46
tigert(so better not be there with a terminal session)09:46
lcukplease cleanly close apps first tho09:46
tigertand it remounts when you close the cover09:46
tigertyeah09:46
tigertexactly09:46
lucenttigert: wowza09:46
lucentthat's really good info thank you09:46
lucentI must have gotten really confused because I didn't insert the cover when I was looking09:47
tigertit probably is in the manual too :)09:47
tigertyeah09:47
Termana_n810BirdFlew - obviously not a direct copy  and paste between them but its still a pretty good website built by a friend of mine09:47
lucentI assumed it wasn't mounting? haha09:47
tigertyeah09:47
tigertlucent: I had the magnet in the cover fall off in one prototype device09:47
tigerttook a while to figure out why it wasnt seeing the card inserted..09:47
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tigertwas an interesting facepalm moment when I realized what had happened :D09:48
* lucent smiles09:48
lcukthts not facepalm09:48
tigertits not?09:49
lucentwow I just discovered the kickstand09:49
lucentI've been using my N900 for almost a month09:49
lcuknahhh not your fault, you wouldnt routinely go looking for it09:49
tigertnext you say its a bit too narrow :)09:49
lcukfacepalm is taking foot of clutch with car in gear ;)09:49
tigertlcuk: well yeah09:49
* lcuk did that last night 09:49
* tigert has no clutch pedal in the car09:50
tigert:)09:50
lcukomg you got a defective one, take it back09:50
* Proteous is wondering how you shift if you don't take your foot of the clutch 09:50
lcukProteous, when parked09:50
tigert:)09:50
Proteousah09:51
Proteousmakes sense now09:51
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lucentI would shift without using the clutch pedal on my first car09:52
lucentit wore the synchronizer like crazy, but it worked09:52
BirdFlewyour transmission would have loved that09:52
lucentrev higher and then tug on the shifter knob until things matched up and pop it in09:53
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Caesiumall the while ignoring the godawful grinding noise? :)09:53
Proteousif you are good at matching revs you can do it without killing your syncros09:53
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lucentProteous knows what I'm talking about09:54
Proteousthe only time it might be a usefull skill is if your clutch dies on the road09:54
Proteousthen it is invauable09:54
Proteoushard to get into first thought :P09:54
Proteousso don't stop :P09:55
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rkcI have created a simple helloworld app in scratchbox. created debian package for FREMANTLE_ARMEL.. i want to install into n90009:55
sheepbatif your clutch dies and you're going through south america?09:55
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rkccan any one tell me or suggest me a link?09:55
Proteousthen you might be on top gear09:55
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tigertlucent: yeah, I did that too09:57
tigertgot pretty good at that also09:57
tigertespecially fun when switching up09:57
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lucentProteous: my friend had a dead clutch and drove his car around everywhere, parked always on a hill or an inclined driveway09:57
lucent"Hey give me a push will ya"09:57
Proteousheh09:57
tigertrkc: if you just want to test it in device, install rootsh09:58
tigertrkc: and open terminal, "root", dpkg -i [packagename].deb09:58
lucentlike backwards, even. Usually where there's one driveway on an incline, there's a neighbor's driveway opposite the street side to back into, then ... it was just insane, I thionk09:58
lucent*think09:58
tigertrkc: if you want to use application manager, you need to create an .install file and put it in a repository09:59
BirdFlewlucent: well, if it works...09:59
rkctigert: let me try that out09:59
lucentBirdFlew: too cheap for a clutch yet he had a girlfriend, never could figure that one out09:59
Proteouslol09:59
rkctigert:where chan i get rootsh09:59
rkcis it a program to be installed?10:00
BirdFlewhaha10:01
tigertrkc: in extras repository in application manager I think10:02
tigertrkc: enable the "maemo" repository10:02
tigertand it should be there10:02
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Termana_n810SPLIT10:19
Stskeepsyes, we all see that10:20
Stskeeps:P10:20
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Stskeepsit's like dalnet all over again10:20
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* tigert has those on ignore :)10:24
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Stskeepsirssi mostly handles them for me10:26
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FIQoo netsplit10:28
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tigertcough*store*cough10:35
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ifreqwhat ya coughing10:36
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ifreqah okay bookmark works now10:36
ifreqit worked yesterday too on store.ovi.mobi10:37
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konttori_nokiatigert, what, you don't like the recomendations?10:38
ifreqpff no more gurlz on store10:39
Stskeepsthey removed the mobiporn?10:40
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tigertkonttori_nokia: no, just coughing a hint for people to go to the store :)10:41
* tigert installed angle meter10:41
* ifreq buys angry birds level pack10:41
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konttori_nokiathere is level pack available?10:44
konttori_nokiawow! I need to go and buy it as well!10:44
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tigertits free! :)10:45
tigertno wait10:45
tigerttheres a spirit level app, confused :)10:45
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tigerthah10:49
tigertthat seismograph app is lovely :)10:49
tigertit needs data saving though, but great idea10:50
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Wolfiehuh. omweather updated itself, and reinserted itself into the desktop, even though I removed it previously10:57
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Wolfiei mean forecaweather10:58
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JaffaAnyone investigated how Ovi works? All the apps are in "Section: user/hidden"; but anyone tried apt-get install of a paid app?10:58
StskeepsJaffa: i really hope whoever made ovi store didn't think that would be sufficient10:59
Stskeeps:P10:59
JaffaStskeeps: Indeed.10:59
pupniktry it with a free one first10:59
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Stskeepsi mean, yes, there's no DRM on n900, but you don't have to make it -too- easy either :P11:00
adeuswell it depends on how the paying mechanism works11:00
adeusmany apps have registering systems11:01
Stskeepswell it could work with a type of token repo11:01
JaffaIndeed11:01
DocScrutinizer51usually paid apps are locked to some serial# on device, like EMEI11:01
DocScrutinizer51IMEI11:01
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JaffaDocScrutinizer51: I'm talking about the delivery mechanism, not the prevention of someone copying it off your device11:01
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DocScrutinizer51Jaffa: so probably you can download but not execute11:02
JaffaDocScrutinizer51: Err, and why wouldn't it execute?11:02
lcukare all the free apps closed source?11:02
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DocScrutinizer51it finds it hasn't been 'registered' to your IMEI and stops aka says 'please register'11:03
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DocScrutinizer51that's how route66 is doing it at least11:04
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matmoCan anyone point me to documentation for dbus interface "com.nokia.hildon_desktop"?11:04
JaffaDocScrutinizer51: And that's my question about the delivery mechanism. You seem to be assuming that a) store.ovi.mobi knows my IMEI and b) can communicate it to a new, custom repo at downloads.maemo.nokia.com11:04
DocScrutinizer51nothing lke that11:05
thesovI know this isnt a support channel but please i need help, i ran the nokia updater today for the new firmware and my device is bricked i tried following the talk.maemo.org posts to repair it but nothing is working. does anyone know what i can do?11:05
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JaffaI'm not talking about how *your* app does it, I'm discussing how Ovi does it.11:05
WolfieJaffa: wasn't this 44.1 update for the store? it requires to know your phone number at least11:05
Wolfiethe store, i mean. not the update11:06
Stskeepsthesov: did you have the battery fully charged before?11:06
thesovyes11:06
matmoI found http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control but I want details11:06
thesovin fact the battery died cuz it took so long11:06
Stskeepsthesov: 64-bit windows?11:06
thesovit was sitting at the nokia screen forever11:06
thesovyes11:06
thesovwhy?11:07
Stskeepsright, someone needs to report that OS being troublesome for NSU..11:07
thesovbut it says its supported windows xp 64-bit11:07
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Stskeepsthesov: do you know enough as to boot a ubuntu livecd?11:07
thesovyes11:07
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thesovmy n900 gets to a point where it says nokia on the screen with no backlight and just reboots forever11:08
Stskeepswell if it says nokia that's a good thing11:08
Stskeeps:P11:08
Macerhouse and wilson crack me up11:08
Stskeepsgrab flasher-3.5 from http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.511:08
Stskeepsunder ubuntu livecd11:09
Stskeepsideally grab a 32-bit livecd11:09
thesovgonna download it now11:09
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Stskeepsare you capable of charging the battery somehow?11:09
thesovit charges the battery briefly when it reboots11:10
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thesovi dont know how much of a charge it has11:10
Stskeepsright, let's see what we can do under ubuntu11:10
thesovok let me swith my irc program to my laptap11:10
thesovbrb and thank you so much, i really appreciate this, ive been hearing horror stories that once you brick your device nokia ignores you11:11
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Stskeepswhich is kinda silly cos it's a simple operation for them to resurrect the device11:12
Stskeeps:P11:12
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Stskeepsbut i would complain about NSU under 64-bit not working11:12
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thesovlets say for the sake of arguement this doesnt work, does the warentee cover this?11:13
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Arkenoiquite strange. some people say they successfully received OTA update via app manager even yesterday and i do not see it yet11:14
Stskeepswell you used NSU which is the way things should be done, or through application manager11:14
tigertit will work most likely11:14
tigertlunch -> &11:14
Stskeepsso warranty not covering something that happened with official tools, would surprise me11:14
thesovthis is so stupid, why would they make a device you can natively access like a hardisk, u know like archos does11:15
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thesovcan't*11:15
Stskeepsin this particular case, you can't access a NAND over USB11:15
Stskeepsit is simply a different technology than what USB mass storage expects11:16
Stskeepsfwiw, your device isn't bricked, it is just temporarily paralyzed :P11:16
thesovreally? cuz u know that white light u see when powering it on? i dont even see that.11:16
Stskeepsi have abused my n900 and n8x0 with so many experiments, i'm quite sure :P11:17
Stskeepsyou don't have anyone who has a xpressmusic 5800 or similar btw?11:17
thesovi tried using the command line flasher on my xp laptop its not working either.11:17
leon-what does it say?11:18
Stskeepsxp 32-bit?11:18
thesovyes11:18
thesovsuitable usb device not found11:18
thesovtried all the usb ports too11:18
StskeepsOK, did you download the fiasco image?11:18
thesovyes11:18
lcukthesov, have you tried having battery out, plug all usb stuff in, get the flasher waiting for device, THEN insert the battery11:19
thesovrx-51_2009se etc etc11:19
thesovno but i can try that now11:19
* LinuxCode needs to put mer on his n81011:19
LinuxCodemaemo doesnt cut it anymore11:19
Stskeepsthesov: optionally hold down 'u' key11:19
lcukStskeeps, thats never been required that way ^11:20
thesovok right now i got flasher -F the US image -f -R11:20
Stskeepslcuk: for XP it might11:20
DocScrutinizer51Stskeeps will be pleased to hear, LinuxCode11:20
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LinuxCodeis there anywhere where I can obtain a package list with what mer has ?11:20
LinuxCodebefore I flash11:20
StskeepsLinuxCode: packages.ubuntu.com?11:21
Stskeeps:P11:21
LinuxCodeyou recompiled all of them ?11:21
LinuxCode;-O11:21
Stskeepswe piggyback on the ubuntu repo11:21
thesovok it said new hardware foung "nokia rom flashing parent" and still nothing11:21
LinuxCodeStskeeps, wow11:21
* LinuxCode is not an ubuntu fan, but if all the packages are in mer, Id def have to switch11:21
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LinuxCodeStskeeps, and everything works in mer, hardware wise ?11:22
LinuxCodegps ?11:22
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LinuxCodewebcam11:22
LinuxCodeetc..11:22
Stskeepsnot directly, needs some hacks11:22
LinuxCodehmmm11:22
Stskeepswebcam is just a v4l device11:22
Stskeepsgps is a little more difficult and needs a blob11:22
LinuxCodeStskeeps, is there a how to for that >11:22
LinuxCode?11:22
Stskeepsbut we don't have GPS yet11:23
Stskeepsbut we need people helping out with the system :)11:23
Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/N810_GPS11:23
LinuxCodeta11:23
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LinuxCodeI hope mer will be up to scratch by the time nokia decides again that they dont care for the n900 anymore11:24
thesovok windows must suck or something11:24
LinuxCodelike it happened with the n81011:24
StskeepsLinuxCode: only way to deal with it .. fixing it early on11:25
Stskeepswhich is why i'm toying with mer on n900 atm11:25
LinuxCodegood on you mate11:25
thesovRX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin correct rom?11:26
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Stskeepssounds like it11:27
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thesovdownloading onto my C: now for when i reboot to ubuntu11:27
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thesovburning cd11:30
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thesovthis thing isnt a toy for me i actually use it11:30
thesovfor work11:31
Stskeepsyeah, same here11:31
thesovand my other phone is att locked11:31
Stskeepsit's a rather expensive toy :)11:31
thesovyes, i got it because it runs a nearly full linux install11:31
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thesovthis is one of those crucial in between stages where pretty soon you will be carrying your computer on you all the time and their will be some "terminal" standard developed so u can interface with a full keyboard screen sound etc. just by dropping your phone onto a passive charging pad11:32
thesovi wanna say i was there for that stage.11:32
Stskeepswas possible already with n8x0 ;)11:33
thesovyeah but u couldnt make phone calls on it :P11:33
StskeepsSIP, Skype, celluar what's the difference :P11:33
jaemwazd, that boot vid is gorgeous :D11:34
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jaemnot so big on the green though11:34
wazdjaem: well, thanks :)11:34
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jaemalso, I think the maemo.org should be either the logo itself, or at least a fancier font11:34
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jaemmaybe even plain text, but with the stylized ae11:35
thesov2ok this my laptop11:35
jaem-shrug-11:35
jaemanyhow, g'night11:35
thesovrebooting into linux11:35
wazdjaem: cya11:35
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thesov2i hate these animated load screens11:37
thesov2what happend to debug info...god i miss slack11:37
Stskeepspress esc11:37
Stskeeps:P11:38
lcukdamn wazd left, he should make a fakey debug info screen to appease you11:38
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thesov2lol @ flashing cursor11:38
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lcukStskeeps !!!11:38
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thesov2thanks again for your help sts11:38
thesov2how long does it normally take to flash this phone?11:40
Stskeeps~2 min11:40
thesov2seriously?11:40
Stskeepsdepending on USB1.1 or USB2.011:40
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thesov2wow ubuntu is smarter than i though, spurios responce on sr0 starting crypto disk. wow it detect my allegedly undetectable disk encryption11:42
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thesov2ok im fully booted into ubuntu11:45
thesov2sts?11:46
Stskeepsgrab flasher-3.5 from that website and doubleclick the .deb11:46
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thesov2what site?11:47
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Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_Flasher-3.511:47
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: what was the pin UI issue?11:49
Stskeepsit looking unthemed with nuvo?11:49
timeless_mbpyep11:49
timeless_mbpany themebuilder theme11:49
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timeless_mbpreflect/glass, nuvo, etc11:49
timeless_mbpspecifically the [x] at the top11:49
Stskeepscould you try and edit /usr/share/themes/X/matchbox1/theme.xml and change engine-version to engine_version, or reverse11:49
Stskeepsi just noticed same issue under mer so11:50
timeless_mbpi'd have to find my phone11:50
thesov2ok11:50
thesov2it says install complete11:50
Stskeepsgood11:50
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timeless_mbpand charge it, since it's out of power11:50
Stskeepsnow sudo flasher-3.5 -F fiasco-image-filename -f -R , -- have your N900 plugged into USB but without battery plugged in11:51
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Stskeepsand start flasher, and then plug in battery11:51
thesov2nothig11:54
thesov2nothing*11:54
Stskeepsalright11:54
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Stskeepswhat does flasher say specifically?11:54
Stskeepswaiting for device?11:54
thesov2yes11:54
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Stskeepsok, now try same procedure but hold in 'u' on device keyboard while you are plugging in battery11:55
Stskeeps(take out usb cable and plug it back in)11:55
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lcukbefore putting in the battery the flasher should be sat saying "no device detected..."   when you put the battery in, it should start11:55
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hrwmorning11:58
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hrwcan someone pastebin 'dpkg -l' from 44.1 fw device updated with h-a-m?11:59
* Arkenoi still does not see the update, wtf?11:59
thesov2same nothing12:00
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Stskeepsthesov2: right, you need to get your battery charged somehow12:01
Stskeepsdo you know someone who uses similar battery type?12:01
thesov2nope12:01
timeless_mbphrw: didn't someone post a content diff url yesterday?12:01
thesov2its a battery issue?12:01
Stskeepsthesov2: in this case probably yes12:01
RST38hEHLO Stskeeps, Arkenoi, lcuk, hrw12:01
Stskeepssince you ran down your battery12:01
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: /matchbox/ or /matchbox2/ ?12:03
thesov2what do you suggest?12:03
Stskeepsi guess matchbox/12:03
hrwtimeless_mbp: here?12:03
timeless_mbpStskeeps: yeah, konttori's have - and the official ones hav e_12:04
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: see if that fixes the issue then12:04
thesov2any way to charge the device without it trying to boot?12:04
Stskeepsthesov2: Nokia 5230, 5800 Xpressmusic, N900 and X6 uses the same battery type12:04
thesov2i have no other nokia products12:05
Stskeepswell, know anyone who does? ;)12:05
Stskeepsbut no, it charges in software12:05
thesov2no actually12:05
timeless_mbpor a nokia store near you :)12:05
timeless_mbpcharging is dangerous12:05
timeless_mbpyou can blow up your battery12:05
timeless_mbpStskeeps: WIN12:05
thesov2lol i should walk into a nokia store and make them gimme a battery?12:05
timeless_mbpit requires software to regulate the charging process12:05
Stskeepsthesov2: no, ask them if they can charge it basically - it's not an unusual question12:06
timeless_mbpthesov2: just ask them to let you swap yours in their demo device and charge it for a bit12:06
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timeless_mbpthey **** well better let you12:06
lcukthesov2, go in with device and ask them to try charging as stskeeps says12:06
thesov2like i said it charges briefly in the boot loop, should i just let it sit in the boot loop all night?12:06
timeless_mbpStskeeps: ok, i'm happy happy joy joy about PIN input12:06
lcukand timeless lol12:06
v2px_stop hilighting me :S :P12:06
Stskeepsthesov2: you can't assume it's actually charging there sadly12:06
lcukv2px_, ?12:06
thesov2hmm12:07
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v2px_"v2" is on my hl list ;)12:07
timeless_mbpStskeeps: btw, have you installed my splash package? :)12:07
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: no, i use the mer boot videos12:07
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thesov2well i can go downstairs to my basement and connect it to my variac with some diodes and charge it manually12:07
timeless_mbpah12:07
Stskeepsthesov2: that will probably cause you bodily harm12:07
timeless_mbpi'm using the maemo-org flyby12:07
thesov2?12:08
thesov2why do you say that?12:08
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Stskeepsthesov2: the nokia batteries are a bit special12:08
Stskeeps:P12:08
timeless_mbpthesov2: you really can cause batteries to explode12:08
lcukthesov2, just go ask nokia people :)12:08
timeless_mbpand the docs are pretty clear "only use in a proper nokia charger"12:08
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Stskeepsthesov2: but really, nokia spends a lot of money on customer service so they should give you that service :P12:08
thesov2damnit man im in a crisis here12:08
thesov2no they wont, im american they hate us12:08
timeless_mbpthesov2: how far away is your local nokia store12:08
thesov2downtown chicago12:09
timeless_mbpand where are you?12:09
thesov2its actually 8 blocks from where i work12:09
timeless_mbpsounds like a lunch trip12:09
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thesov2sounds like fuckwork12:09
timeless_mbpbut you better go before the stores close permanently12:09
Stskeepsthesov2: well, you can try to let it reboot overnight but that might cause it to think it's malfunctioning12:09
thesov2600 dollar phone vs 200 dollar a day off?12:09
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Stskeeps(after 50 reboots it thinks it's malfunctioning)12:10
timeless_mbp25/hr?12:10
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thesov2yes12:10
thesov2i dont make much money sadly12:10
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Stskeepsthesov2: anyway.. there's no other technical way around it, you have to charge the battery somehow or flashing will fully brick your phone12:10
timeless_mbpor work 2 days of overtime and buy a new phone :)12:10
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timeless_mbp(assuming overtime = time+a half)12:11
thesov2i dont have overtime im salary except for sick days\12:11
TermanaOf course, you could BUY a new battery, even a third party one from ebay12:11
Stskeepswell, or that12:11
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Stskeepsa emergency battery is always useful :P12:11
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thesov2i think i will goto the nokia store tomorrow morning and ask the clerk for his batter so i can flash it12:11
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Stskeepsor just asking to charge the battery12:12
Stskeepsprobably easier to convince him of12:12
thesov2could do that too :)12:12
thesov2they all have n900's there12:12
Stskeepsand explain the situation with NSU and 64-bit so they annotate it somewhere12:12
thesov2will do thanks guys12:12
timeless_mbpStskeeps: what's this 64bit stuff?12:12
thesov2im gonna play wow for a couple hours and chill12:12
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: the common trend for NSU breaking people's devices is them doing it on 64-bit windows12:13
Stskeepswhich stops the flashing mid-way12:13
timeless_mbpawesome12:13
* timeless_mbp ponders12:13
timeless_mbpi could try to brick someone's device at work12:13
timeless_mbpi have w7 :)12:13
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timeless_mbp(w7x64)12:13
Stskeepssounds like the right victim12:13
lupine_85I have an N900!12:13
lupine_85wewt, etc :)12:14
timeless_mbpi need a more specific victim12:14
timeless_mbpi'm open to suggestions12:14
Macercastle is funny12:14
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: could you do a diff -ur between a nokia theme and a themebuilder theme12:14
timeless_mbpand see if there are any other gotchas floating around?12:15
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: possibly, but i'm in Mer right now on my n90012:15
thesov2man i hope you guys are right and everything goes well tomorrow, if it does im forever in your debt cuz i was panicking and i cant afford another phone12:15
timeless_mbpyou don't have mount access to Maemo? :)12:15
Stskeepsthesov2: either way it should be under warranty12:16
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: hmm :P12:16
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thesov2switch8ing back to desktop12:16
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MaemohammadAGhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/14/nokia-messaging-for-social-networks-hits-beta-brings-twitter-a/ :/12:18
lupine_85ooh, maemo have jobs that I could do if I were to move to FI :p12:18
lupine_85*ahem*12:18
thesovso...now im gonna uninstall software updater and curse the life of the idiot who progged it12:18
timeless_mbpMaemohammadAG: that UI looks somewhat S60r5ish12:19
MaemohammadAGit is12:19
MaemohammadAGi'm just posting it to show how engadget hate maemo12:19
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MaemohammadAGread the article timeless_mbp12:19
timeless_mbpwho reads articles?12:20
timeless_mbpi'm a picture guy :)12:20
lupine_85anyone know which version of Debian Maemo is built off? /etc/debian_version says testing/unstable, which isn't too helpful ;)12:20
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MaemohammadAGlol timeless_mbp12:21
timeless_mbplupine_85: Maemo is a distro12:21
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timeless_mbplike Ubuntu12:21
timeless_mbpyour question is like asking "Which version of Debian is Ubuntu built off"12:21
lupine_85timeless_mbp: indeed12:21
timeless_mbpdid you have a certain version of Maemo/Ubuntu in mind?12:21
lupine_85and the answer is always 'the version of testing that was around when they branched'12:21
lupine_85or is it unstable? I forget12:22
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lupine_85I'm wondering if it's etch-vintage, or lenny vintage, or...?12:22
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lupine_85glibc 2.5, that should help12:22
* lupine_85 hunts12:22
timeless_mbpwhich version of Maemo?12:22
lupine_855 - whatever's on the N90012:22
timeless_mbpMaemo 1, Maemo 2, Maemo 3, Maemo 4, Maemo 5, Maemo 6?12:22
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/dif12:23
lupine_85512:23
lupine_85looks like it's based on lenny before lenny became stable12:23
timeless_mbpStskeeps: -wb ;-)12:23
lupine_85(stable lenny being libc6 2.7, etch being 2.3)12:23
* xorAxAx is happy, his n900 will ship today12:23
xorAxAxbranded, though12:23
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: reload12:24
timeless_mbp text[NORMAL] = @ReversedTextColor12:24
timeless_mbp-text[INSENSITIVE] = @ReversedDisabledTextColor12:24
timeless_mbpthat seems bad12:24
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: either way, the non-thememaker way of doing themes using debian packages has been released12:24
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timeless_mbp-color["ReversedDisabledTextColor"] = @DisabledTextColor12:24
timeless_mbp-style "fremantle-progressnote"12:25
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timeless_mbpdiff -ruNwb alpha/theme.conf marina/theme.conf12:26
timeless_mbpis odd12:26
tigerthttp://www.tehkseven.net/news/nokia-themes/maemo-5-theme-for-nokia/12:26
tigertwow :)12:26
timeless_mbpis that a bug fix on top of a bug?12:26
tigertMaemo5 theme for Symbian =)12:26
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lardmanmorning12:26
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lardmanlcuk: you about oh VB guru?12:26
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timeless_mbptigert: for people mourning the fact that they paid way too much for an inferior product12:26
xorAxAx09:39:01 [@foebud:1] RT @johl: Vote for Barbie to become a computer engineer!  http://www.barbie.com/vote/12:26
timeless_mbpit's a consolation12:26
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: Math is hard, let's go shopping.12:27
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: not if barbie was a successful role model :)12:27
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nomislardman: you about, oh DSP guru?  ;)12:28
nomislardman: do you have an idea about what it would take to slow down music (lets say about 15%) without changing pitch?12:28
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timeless_mbpxorAxAx: now you have to try http://icanbe.barbie.com/dentist.html with your n90012:30
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lcuklardman, pong12:31
lardmanlcuk: reading binary files in vb?12:31
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: nah, not my thing :)12:31
lcukyes entirely possible12:31
lardmanand reading values of a given size into variables?12:31
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lardmani.e. I'd like to read some double data, etc.12:32
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lcukslightly different12:32
Corsactimeless_mbp: ouch.12:32
lcukyou would have to make a UDT and read records of those12:33
timeless_mbpCorsac: did it kill your n900?12:33
lardmanlcuk: hmm12:33
lcukie:   type lardmans_data    a as double   end type12:33
lardmanlcuk: yeah I get that12:33
lardmanthe problem is I'm reading a header, then either double or byte data12:34
thesovcan you make X applications with python?12:34
lardmanso in C it would be a nice simple fread12:34
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DocScrutinizer51nomis: depends on source format. for mp3 e.g. it,s really easy12:34
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Corsactimeless_mbp: I didn't try on it12:34
Corsacpoor beast12:34
Corsacthesov: sure12:35
DocScrutinizer51nomis: as frequency aka pitch isn't correlated with time domain in mp312:35
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lcukmmm lardman you can do memcpy stuff, always read as bytes and then copy into a typed array?12:35
lardmanusing a C fn?12:36
lardmanCan memcpy be used in VB?12:36
lcukwindows api provides it afaik12:36
lcuk#but you need a proto12:36
lardmanyeah12:36
lardmanok thanks12:36
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nomisDocScrutinizer51: oh wow.12:36
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nomisDocScrutinizer51: do you have any references where I could read about decoding mp3 differently?12:37
DocScrutinizer51nope sorry12:37
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lcuknp12:37
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Orkuthello all12:37
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OrkutI was wondering if you guys have any clue on installing the sdk on slackware12:38
DocScrutinizer51but I know of a few mp3 player (though I canMt remember the name) which offer that feature to adjust playback speed12:38
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timeless_mbpCorsac: someone really should12:38
timeless_mbpmaybe i'll get the flash team @work to do it12:38
DocScrutinizer51nomis: also in sox you have an implementation to adjust pitch and speed independantly on arbitrary audio formats12:39
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ccookeMorning, all12:39
nomisDocScrutinizer51: yeah, I have used that to slow down some orchestral music so I have a chance of keeping up when playing together with it.12:39
juhjokelDocScrutinizer51: At least PS3 allows that, iirc12:39
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nomisDocScrutinizer51: I'd like to have an application that I can use as practicing aid: add markers inside a mp3 file to easily skip back to a defined position, dynamically adjust the speed of the playback etc.12:40
hrwhttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/18/what-will-next-firmware-release-for-n900-bringsk/#comment-20820 - nice comment I got about firmware updates12:40
juhjokelDocScrutinizer51: And regarding the practical implementation, I doubt if all players handle mp3 decoding differently with different pitch, as most of them support other audio formats aswell12:41
juhjokelAnd well, don't know if that feature is mp3-specific12:42
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nomispossibly there is a gst-plugin for that, probably I am not the first one thinking about it...  :)12:42
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DocScrutinizer51juhjokel: I'm just saying you need a signal representation in the frequency domain vs time, rather than a waveform representation, to do that magic most easily.12:44
thesovi wanted to make a quick desktop widget that would pull an image from the web every 10 mins12:44
thesovi didnt know if it was possible in python im thinking of learning it12:44
DocScrutinizer51nomis: I'd assume that you can find such plugin. Or use sox12:45
wazdkonttori: heya12:45
wazdkonttori: I think I've found a place for OVI widget skin :)12:46
lardmanlcuk: how very odd that I can read a type correctly, but not arbitrary variabels12:46
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lardman~curse VB for being crap12:47
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, VB for being crap !12:47
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lcukyeah its geared around records of info12:47
lardmanyep12:47
lardmanso basically I can't switch the type I'm reading part way through I guess?12:48
lardmani.e. I'll have to read the header, close the file, open fseek then read the image data, etc12:48
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DocScrutinizer51lardman: ouch. there has to be better ways12:49
Orkutany ideas on how to install the SDK on a slackware linux?12:49
lardmanDocScrutinizer51: not using VB? ;)12:49
lcuklardman, mmm if you havent prespecified the record size i nthe open statement, something in back of mind is telling me you can12:50
DocScrutinizer51lardman: that crap from Redmond?.actually I was forced to create a whole commercial project with VB(A)12:50
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lardmanI don't have records though, I have a header consisting of various things, ints, booleans, doubles, etc., then data either byte or double, then more footer info12:51
jaskavisual basic for aberrations12:51
DocScrutinizer51lardman: I know it,s crap12:51
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Corsachmhm, are qr code somewhat readable on n900?12:51
meceCan I expect problems with updates when I have my apt cache moved to MyDocs?12:52
lardmanDocScrutinizer51: just far easier to write a quick app to display data allowing drag&drop & clipboard copying using VB, until I stumbled into the issues of wanting to know what's in the header12:52
lardmanCorsac: yes12:52
lardmanmbarcode12:52
Corsacok12:52
Corsacthanks12:52
DocScrutinizer51lardman: read in generic bytes from file, then do a typecast and assign parts of the buffer to a structure of your liking12:54
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DocScrutinizer51VB is nasty but you still can do almost everythng you're used to do in other decent prog lang12:55
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Corsachmhm, is there an open bug about being able to quick jump on every list?12:55
Orkutok, I'll try once more: since I'm being unable to install the sdk ... is there anyone willing to compile a very stupid little program for me in the meanwhile?12:56
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Zero_DoggHi. Has the deblet project died? I'm unable to find any website related to it anymore.12:58
Stskeepsyes, it's dead and Mer is the successor12:59
Stskeepsbeen dead for over a year :P12:59
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Zero_Doggright, sort of figured. So can Mer run alternate desktops? (ie. xfce). Only reason I haven't tried mer lately is that I've been told that an upgrade usually requires a reflash, rather than using apt13:00
Stskeepsyes it can but it requires tinkering13:00
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FIQTomorrow, I can finally buy a N90013:03
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SpeedEvil;)13:03
SpeedEvilGet an iphone, it's got more apps!13:04
SpeedEvilAnd is capacitittatitive!13:04
FIQno thanks, lol. :p13:04
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xorAxAxget an android phone, it has fancy google navigation and not sucky ovi maps!13:04
meceLOL13:04
SpeedEvilSeriously though - I haven't regretted my descision to get one.13:04
FIQmeh13:04
xorAxAxi want your n900!13:04
lardmanCorsac: yes there is a bug for that13:05
meceSpeedEvil, getting what?13:05
lardmanCorsac: and what are you doing with QR codes?13:05
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* FIQ have a SE P1i atm and haven't any problems with screen being resistive. :) (and yeah, i pwn at spelling)13:05
lardmanxorAxAx: you have to find one with Android 2.x tho13:05
xorAxAxlardman: doesnt it require at least 1.6?13:05
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SpeedEvilThough my happiness is in a somewhat undetermined state over USB host until I finish reading kernel driver for USB and datasheet for USB phy, patching the kernel and seeing if it works.13:05
xorAxAxlardman: but indeed, you are somehow locked into the shipped version13:06
lardmanxorAxAx: doesn't seem to work on my wife's phone13:06
* Jaffa got fed up with waiting for the MyMenu author to integrate his "identify things from package's section" code; so has started on a new tool; Catorise: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30863507@N02/4268021329/ <---- my app menu13:06
SpeedEvilMultitouch would be handy sometimes. But - losing stylus would be bad.13:06
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xorAxAxumm, why do you need a tool at all, jaffa13:06
meceJaffa, nice!13:07
xorAxAxyou can query the section from the menu files, ok, then some tool would need to patch the desktop files to include the package section13:07
meceJaffa, is it already working?13:07
wazdJaffa: more icon looks odd :)13:07
SpeedEvilJaffa: unsure - what's that?13:07
Jaffawazd: Yeah, it's supposed to be "other" from the current theme, but there's a bug13:07
Orkuteven thou it seems like I'm typing with a transparent ink... i'd say that a REALTIME kernel would be great!13:08
meceJaffa, right I was just about to say it should be "other" :)13:08
JaffaxorAxAx: Cos I want to fix https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=382213:08
povbot`Bug 3822: Application menu should have enough top-level folders to match package sections13:08
* FIQ lost the stylus to his current phone months ago13:08
JaffaxorAxAx: That's what MyMenu tries to do by maintaining a separate list13:09
xorAxAxJaffa: yeah, i know. good luck :)13:09
JaffaxorAxAx: Which is braindead architecturally ;-)13:09
wazdnice icons btw, have you made it?13:09
Jaffawazd: It uses the HAM icons for whatever the user-selected theme is, if any, or uses the icons from the default theme if the current theme doesn't provide any13:10
wazdJaffa: HAM now has icons? cool :)13:10
SpeedEvilJaffa: icon for more - http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/please-sir-I-want-some-moar-415x500.jpg13:10
Jaffawazd: http://blogs.igalia.com/vjaquez/2009/12/14/shinning-new-ham/13:11
Jaffatimeless_mbp: ping13:11
timeless_mbppong13:12
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Jaffatimeless_mbp: What's the naming strategy for message keys for HAM sections?13:12
timeless_mbp?13:12
timeless_mbpyou mean what maps where13:13
timeless_mbpor what are the localization bits?13:13
Jaffatimeless_mbp: e.g. the text under the icons. Yeah, I want to reuse them13:13
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timeless_mbpJaffa: do you have my locale installed?13:13
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Yes13:13
timeless_mbpthe 'Advanced Options' thing in its control panel will let you look them up13:13
Jaffatimeless_mbp: cool13:13
timeless_mbpselect it, pick en_US.1 and the next thing (which is tiny/fast)13:13
timeless_mbpthen pick browser, pick en_US.113:14
timeless_mbpthen select the right application manager thing13:14
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Oh, damn. I've not got it installed atm and your repo is down13:14
timeless_mbpmy repo is down?!13:14
* wazd has found a good recipe to create unique theme for maemo513:14
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wazdopen dark template, move hue a bit, save it, voi la :D13:15
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timeless_mbp'unique'?13:15
* timeless_mbp finds that questionable13:15
timeless_mbpJaffa: afaict, my repo is up13:15
wazdwell, there are like 10 themes around including legendary godlike Pizerro that in fact just a dark theme with different hue value13:16
tigertwazd: :)13:16
wazdand wallpaper13:16
tigertwazd: yeah13:16
tigertbut that pizerro was "unfinished"13:16
tigertit was largely based on the sdk theme still13:16
Jaffatimeless_mbp: I got errors from HAM. Let me recheck13:16
wazdI'd rather call such things "unstarted" :D13:16
tigertthe "Melody/Harmony" variant pair is the development theme iirc13:17
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wazdI wonder if there is a possibility to change theme hue on the go13:17
Jaffatimeless_mbp: "Unable to connect to timless.justdave.net http: [IP] 92.123.153.57 80]13:17
wazdan app or something13:17
tigertyou could write a simple tool to recolor the bitmaps13:17
timeless_mbpJaffa: hrm13:17
wazdI can't :D13:17
wazdbut it would be cool13:18
timeless_mbp[timeless@konigsberg nss]$ ping timeless.justdave.net13:18
timeless_mbpPING timeless.justdave.net (208.113.182.132) 56(84) bytes of data.13:18
tigertwazd: once saw a hack for 770 by someone that did that13:18
timeless_mbptimless != timeless13:18
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DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp: I'd like to remove the 'tanna_fi' buggy names from my N810 diablo13:18
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer51: sorry, which packages are you using right now?13:19
timeless_mbpmy diablo enus1 or my fremantle enus1?13:19
Corsaclardman: I was just testing it13:19
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timeless_mbpif you installed the fremantle ones, there should be a control panel which lets you fix it by selecting Default13:19
DocScrutinizer51err. no idea. How ould I tell? I never installed anything out of the main repo way13:19
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer51: did you install something from me?13:20
DocScrutinizer51nope13:20
timeless_mbpso what gave 'tanna_fi' ?13:20
DocScrutinizer51not deliberately13:20
* timeless_mbp is confused13:20
DocScrutinizer51no idea13:20
timeless_mbpwell, let's start w/ simple stuff:13:21
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timeless_mbpdpkg -l '*en*1'13:21
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timeless_mbpif you have any enus1/engb1's, then we can work from there13:21
timeless_mbpif not, you'll have to at least tell me which app(s) are unhappy and probably offer at least one screenshot13:21
DocScrutinizer51k, moment please13:21
timeless_mbpand we can work from there13:21
* timeless_mbp needs to get unsick13:21
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FIQhm, the Xchat installation.. what repository is it in13:22
FIQ+?13:22
SpeedEvilextras-devel I think13:22
FIQah,k13:23
SpeedEvil,aybe extras13:23
FIQguess i have to deal with extras-devel's server problems before getting it i guess13:23
Gadgetoid_mbpAnyone have a giffgaff SIM and want to pretend to have referred me?13:23
mecetesting at least.13:23
mecexchat13:23
FIQRST38h: ping13:24
FIQhe knows! ;o13:24
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Gadgetoid_mbpHo hum, evidently not!13:26
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DocScrutinizer-8timeless_mbp: no enus/engb. No unhappy apps. Just the appswitcher shows a home icon with 'tanna_fi_home \n tanna_fi_home_thumb'13:31
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Orkutok, I'll try once more: since I'm being unable to install the sdk ... is there anyone willing to compile a very stupid little program for me in the meanwhile?13:31
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timeless_mbpand this is the nokia n8x0 ?13:31
timeless_mbpwhat locale are you using?13:31
timeless_mbp(this is diablo and not mer-diablo)13:32
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RST38hOh, finally, icons in HAM!13:33
* wazd is going to write photoshop script for theme dithering to save the world13:33
w00thm..13:33
wazdRST38h: pretty good icons in fact :)13:33
Arkenoiwhere is my update?13:33
w00tis there a way to remotely reboot n900 from ssh?13:33
w00tshutdown doesn't seem to do it13:34
wazdArkenoi: Not for sale, not for update :D13:34
SpeedEvilw00t: reboot IIRC13:34
w00tSpeedEvil: ta13:34
SpeedEvilnp13:34
DocScrutinizer-8timeless_mbp: this is N810 diablo 5.2008.43-7. locale set to English (US) now but was set to german with no change13:34
RST38hwazd: Yea, looks decent13:34
timeless_mbpw00t: you probably need to be 'su'13:35
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Any thoughts on putting zenity in extras?13:35
RST38hthere is a funny HAM-related bug by the way, not in HAM but apparently in the kernel13:35
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w00ttimeless_mbp: I am13:35
timeless_mbpJaffa: i definitely want it13:35
timeless_mbp_But_13:35
RST38hWhen you minimize HAM, it stops downloading/installing stuff =)13:35
timeless_mbpit needs to be the zenity from my repo13:35
timeless_mbpthe zenity from upstream doesn't have the window parent stuff13:35
timeless_mbpso if you put it in extras w/o that, you break my control panel integration13:36
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w00tam I safe to chsh user to bash? busybox really irritates the heck out of me13:37
slonopotamusw00t, at least it was safe in diablo :)13:37
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* Arkenoi wants qt keyboard input to be fixed. even more than ussd, proper bt headset disconnect handling, etc etc13:37
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Jaffatimeless_mbp: Let me put it another way, are you going to put your zenity in extras? ;-)13:37
* w00t will just do it and live with the consequences :-)13:37
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DocScrutinizer-8w00t: nooo! will result in you reflashing13:42
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DocScrutinizer-8timeless_mbp: any further comments on tanna_fi?13:43
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timeless_mbpJaffa: someone else has to do it if they want it sooner13:44
timeless_mbpit's probably best if you try to pull  it in13:44
timeless_mbpi think the source package is in my repo13:44
Jaffatimeless_mbp: /me nods. Is ther... ah, cool13:44
timeless_mbpif it isn't, poke me13:44
timeless_mbpbut i'm not doing well13:44
Jaffatimeless_mbp: So, should just be a case of doing "apt-get source" and uploading it ;-)13:44
tigertwow13:44
tigertthe speedmeter app has a HUD mirror mode =)13:44
timeless_mbplol13:45
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* w00t glares at DocScrutinizer-813:45
w00t:p13:45
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JaffaQuestion to the floor: presumably an "All" section in the applications menu is just as useful as it is in HAM when trying to find something13:45
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DocScrutinizer-8w00t: no joke. changing +in/sh breaks boot13:46
DocScrutinizer-8 /bin/sh even13:46
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w00tI'm not changing /bin/sh, I'm using chsh13:46
nomisDocScrutinizer-8: well, "chsh" is not changing /bin/sh13:46
w00tsubtle but very important difference13:47
* timeless_mbp curses13:47
w00ttimeless_mbp: sup?13:47
timeless_mbpmaintaining a list of not fixed things is a royal pain13:47
DocScrutinizer-8check PBeck on tmo of yesterday13:47
DocScrutinizer-8same story13:47
w00tDocScrutinizer-8: and well, it already rebooted just fine so13:47
* lupine_85 wonders how well maemo copes with 'ordinary' X applications13:48
DocScrutinizer-8hmm, strange13:48
Muhvi--have you tried N900s front camera13:48
mgedminlupine_85, poorly13:48
w00tDocScrutinizer-8: again, chsh is not changing /bin/sh, so if that's what he/she did and it broke, that's not what I did anyway :-)13:48
rangelupine_85: ssh -X into my machine at home and then running xclock gives me a maximized xclock.13:48
Muhvi--i have really shitty image quality13:48
lupine_85range: fun :)13:48
rangeSo yes, it works, but not quite as expected :)13:48
mgedminor, rather, ordinary X apps assume things from the window manager that aren't guaranteed by the ICCCM spec but are provided by 99.9% of window managers out there, resulting in focus issues when those apps run on fremantle13:49
w00tMuhvi--: everyone does, I believe there's a few topics with theories/discussion/the reason on tmo13:49
Muhvi--OK, thanks13:49
lupine_85the huuuge dpi tends to break stuff anyway IME13:49
Muhvi--i thought its broken13:49
lupine_85(on another phone with a 297dpi)13:49
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fluxI suppose someone could have a maemoized nested X-server for n900 for those uses?13:51
fluxsimilar to those distributions running in chroot environments I think13:51
pupnikty for the info mgedmin13:51
fluxof course, "it's not the same" :)13:51
pupnikty for the info mgedmin13:51
pupnikoop13:51
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tigertit doesnt really make sense to do "desktop" ui on tablet screen13:52
tigertits just way too small13:52
LuciusMarehi,why cant i use headphones and fm transmitter at once?13:52
tigertthe easydebian can run gimp13:52
tigertand it wouldnt likely even be that slow13:52
tigertbut the ui is just too small13:52
DocScrutinizer-8w00t: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4011113:52
tigertno way you can draw anything sensibly when pixels are 0.1 mm wide13:53
mgedminLuciusMare, rumour is the headphones would act as an antenna and broadcast the FM signal farther than is legally allowed in many countries13:53
LuciusMareso its purely software?13:53
Zeddyomg13:53
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Zeddyovi store is cool13:53
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* timeless_mbp takes a minute to kick andre__ 13:56
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tekojotimeless no kicking the bugmaster!13:57
timeless_mbptekojo: sorry, he deserved it13:57
timeless_mbpchanging the resolution of an invalid bug is not proper13:58
tekojojust gently stroke his hair and tell him to be nice again13:58
timeless_mbpespecially when the reporter actually went off and filed the bug again13:58
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timeless_mbpthe second copy of the bug was slightly better than the first copy13:58
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timeless_mbpalthough, still horrible13:58
mrmghi guys13:58
andre__timeless_mbp, you having problems with users being vague is not my problem13:58
andre__timeless_mbp, and keep my aliases otherwise I kick you.13:58
timeless_mbpandre__: he already filed it again13:58
mrmgdownloading these maemo images are taking ages. :(13:58
mrmgWorks internet sucks13:59
andre__timeless_mbp, then I block him. as easy as that :)13:59
timeless_mbpmrmg: don't download images13:59
mrmg!?13:59
timeless_mbpwhy in the world would you download an image13:59
mrmgI'm in Windows 713:59
timeless_mbpuh huh13:59
mrmgSo need to run it through a VM13:59
timeless_mbpwhat 'image' are you downloading?13:59
mrmgOr am I confuzzled?13:59
timeless_mbpdunno, depends what the heck you're trying to do14:00
mrmgMaemo_PreFinal_2_Ubuntu....14:00
timeless_mbpif you're trying to download a VMWare or SDK image, then that's ok14:00
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timeless_mbpah14:00
timeless_mbpyeah, sorry14:00
mrmghehe14:00
mgedminPreFinal sounds a bit strange14:00
mrmg:)14:00
mrmgFor Eclipse.14:00
timeless_mbp9 times out of 10 people are foolishly downloading FIASCOs14:00
mrmgCouldn't find a newer one. PreFinal 2 I think14:00
timeless_mbpwhich is just a fiasco.14:00
mgedminspeaking of firmware images, is the 44-1 update available as a SSU?14:00
VDVsxandre__, the bug trolls arrived ? :D14:00
timeless_mbpyou happened to be the exception, but it's safer to start with "you're probably doing the wrong thing"14:00
mgedminI ask because I can't see it in my app manager14:00
mrmgmgedmin: yep14:01
timeless_mbpmgedmin: patience.14:01
mrmgMine showed up yesterday14:01
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: there's a staggered deployment14:01
mrmgtimeless_mbp: No worries. ;-)14:01
timeless_mbpjust to encourage people to complain and be confused about availability14:01
JaffaDoes anyone know of a way of restarting Hildon desktop nicely (without a reboot)? (Stskeeps?)14:01
mrmgI wanna get developing stuff. But it's my first time (developing) on linux/maemo14:01
mrmgDone some android and iphone stuff14:01
RST38hAverage Budget For Major, Multi-platform Games Is $18-28 Million14:01
timeless_mbpJaffa: killall hildon-desktop14:01
timeless_mbpkillall hildon-home14:01
timeless_mbpkillall hildon-status-menu14:01
timeless_mbpall of those are safe :)14:01
timeless_mbpwell, ok, not entirely safe14:02
timeless_mbpif you're really unlucky the Display Driver throws a tantrum14:02
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Without triggeting the watchdog?14:02
DocScrutinizer-8timeless_mbp: I see you're quite busy and feel sick. Let's postpone the tanna_fi issue (it's not actually a showstopper anyway ;-) May I ping you later on that topic again?14:02
timeless_mbpbut it does that anyway14:02
mgedminactually, if you kill hildon-desktop a certain number of times, won't dsme decide to reboot?14:02
timeless_mbpJaffa: without14:02
timeless_mbpmgedmin: in a row w/in a certain time period14:02
timeless_mbpat least, i hope it's sane and doesn't think uptime of 10,000 days entitles you to the same kill limit as uptime of 2mins14:02
wazdRST38h: that's with commercial engine I think14:02
wazdRST38h: Like UE314:03
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer-8: yeah, but not for a while14:03
* timeless_mbp complains about stomach being disagreeable14:03
RST38hwazd: tops at $50-60mil14:03
jhpWho can tell me if those document viewers that you can buy are any good?14:03
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VDVsxQ: if I buy something in Ovi store and than reflash my device, I've to buy it again ?14:03
timeless_mbpjhp: i'm biased14:03
DocScrutinizer-8timeless_mbp: no problem. Feel free to answer 'not yet' when I ping you next time14:03
timeless_mbpbut they work well enough to handle nokia internal documents14:03
VDVsxjhe, there's a trial I think14:03
JaffaVDVsx: At the moment there is only piece of paid content which comes as a package (AFAICT) which is angrybirds-levelpack114:04
RST38hwazd: and you weanted to develop and sell for $1.99 ;)14:04
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timeless_mbpjhp: they aren't localized14:04
timeless_mbpand their ui is moderately lame14:04
jhpVDVsx: Yes, I found that.14:04
timeless_mbpbut functionally which is what matters, they work14:04
wazdRST38h: well :D14:04
jhpIt's only 10 dollar I think, so not really that expencive.14:04
wazdRST38h: I really don't think that some indie games have such huge budgets14:04
timeless_mbp(my bias is that nokia gave me a license, and i tried to send them feedback)14:04
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timeless_mbpjhp: roughly, if your office deals in ms docs (as Nokia does for me) and you expect to encounter them, it's probably worth the purchase14:05
VDVsxJaffa, and do you know if I need to buy it again if I reflash or can just download it ? :)14:05
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jhpok.14:05
timeless_mbpif you're only expecting to encounter docs on the web, i'd try google docs instead14:05
jhpclear.14:05
RST38hwazd: Well I can write a game in 1 day's time14:05
RST38hwazd: But it will suck :)14:06
jhpAnd can I use it to show powerpoint presentations through a beamer?14:06
timeless_mbp'beamer'?14:06
zaheer_projector14:06
zaheer_people have weird names for them14:06
timeless_mbpthe n900's 3.5mm jack can be used for composite out14:06
jhpok14:07
zaheer_if someone told me aurally beamer, i'd assume he meant a bmw vehicle14:07
wazdRST38h: 50-60 are the budgets for Halo grade games, with huge advertising14:07
timeless_mbpi used mine w/ a projector @w3 tpac in Santa Clara, CA, US in november14:07
JaffaVDVsx: I did an apt-get install angrybirds-levelpack1 without problem; although never having played Angry Birds I dunno how to check whether or nt I've got it14:07
timeless_mbpzaheer_++14:07
timeless_mbpjhp: there shouldn't be any reason the slide show wouldn't work14:07
timeless_mbpbut it won't really know that your display is odd14:07
zaheer_Jaffa, without paying?14:07
VDVsxJaffa, lol14:07
* VDVsx already completed all the free levels14:08
wazdRST38h: don't think that IL-2 shtuÿmovik had 20+ budget when it was done14:08
* zaheer_ just paid for the level pack because this morning i completed the free ones14:08
timeless_mbpVDVsx: what is this?14:08
zaheer_angry birds14:08
timeless_mbpor where is this?14:08
wazdRST38h: and World of Goo too :)14:08
timeless_mbpare you guys actually using store. ?14:08
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zaheer_timeless_mbp, yah angry birds is endless fun14:08
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VDVsxtimeless_mbp, yes, just for angry birds14:08
timeless_mbpdoes it require a nokia/ovi.com account?14:09
zaheer_yes14:09
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* timeless_mbp grumbles14:09
JaffaVDVsx: Then I'd be *very* interested to know what happens when you apt-get ;-)14:09
RST38hwazd: That was before =)14:09
DocScrutinizer-8timeless_mbp: I'm planning to use it to *sell* crap for gold ;-P14:09
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNNzRyd1xz014:09
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wazdRST38h: well, WoG is a pretty fresh game14:09
xorAxAxDocScrutinizer-8: "Maemo 6"! :)14:09
DocScrutinizer-8lol14:10
Nitial is WoG somewhere already?14:10
xorAxAxspelled mäemo 6 to avoid lawyers14:10
timeless_mbpoh14:10
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timeless_mbpi played a flash game like this14:10
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timeless_mbpit was a castle game14:10
wazdRST38h: idea is everything, budget can just minimize faults if you're not a pro :)14:10
timeless_mbpit worked nicely on my n90014:11
RST38hwazd: But where do I shoot monsters in 3D?14:11
wazdRST38h: current game scene is out of ideas :)14:11
RST38h3D monsters take money!14:11
DocScrutinizer-8that's why they're called monsters14:11
DocScrutinizer-83USD monsters14:12
wazdRST38h: Btw, do you know bout TeeWars? :)14:12
timeless_mbpJaffa: doesn't look like the zenity sources are up there14:12
* timeless_mbp wonders where they are14:12
wazdRST38h: http://www.teeworlds.com/14:12
thesovim very upset my phone is just a lump right now14:12
w00ttimeless_mbp: does the file of typed browser URLs get trimmed?14:13
timeless_mbp?14:13
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DocScrutinizer-8friggin angry birds rebooted my device on quit. Also I don't think it's so exceptionally great14:13
wazdRST38h: I think it can be ported to the n90014:13
timeless_mbpthe ui spec demanded the urlbar have a character field limit14:13
w00ttimeless_mbp: .browser_typed_urls14:13
timeless_mbpif that's what you mean14:13
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Ho hum14:13
timeless_mbpw00t: oh14:13
timeless_mbpum, probably not ;-)14:13
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w00t(character field limit? wtf.)14:13
timeless_mbpw00t: ui specifiers have too much time on their hands14:14
timeless_mbpso they invent stupid work14:14
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w00t:-)14:14
w00tI suppose they have to justify their existance somehow14:14
DocScrutinizer-8bbl14:15
wazdRST38h: http://i080.radikal.ru/1001/16/0eafda820117.png14:16
StskeepsRST38h: hmm, do you use omapfb directly in some of your emus?14:17
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timeless_mbpJaffa: do you have a build env?14:19
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Not with me at the moment14:20
* timeless_mbp wonders why the zenity sources are ~16mb14:20
timeless_mbpJaffa: well, if i put up the zenity sources i think i used14:20
timeless_mbpcould you eventually build them, confirm they interop w/ the packages i have, and then push them through the builders?14:21
timeless_mbpJaffa: timeless.justdave.net/maemo/zenity-src.tgz (eta:3min)14:22
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Jaffatimeless_mbp: I'll try to. No promises.14:23
timeless_mbpi'm not specifically in a hurry :)14:23
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timeless_mbpfile's up14:24
Jaffatimeless_mbp: ta14:24
mrmgFirst thing I'm going to make is widget. Is that a good place to start?14:24
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xorAxAxmrmg: a widget is the most proprietary form of application but there are instructions for it on the wiki14:25
timeless_mbpmrmg: i'd personally start w/ an application14:25
timeless_mbpthey're the 'simplest'14:25
Corsachmhm, do we have the estimated range of the fm transmitter?14:25
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mrmgAh, okies14:25
timeless_mbpthen i changed from that to a control panel14:25
xorAxAxCorsac: the manual claims up to 3m14:26
timeless_mbpbut i had a special goal14:26
timeless_mbpfor the browser, we started as an application14:26
Corsacmpf, that's not really enough14:26
timeless_mbpand later (internally, it's a secret) made a widget14:26
Corsacas we have an fm receiver and an fm transmitter I wondered about a “walkie talkie” apps :)14:26
timeless_mbpCorsac: FCC and friends do not approve of much more powerful w/o a proper license14:26
Corsacyeah14:26
Corsacit'd have been fun :)14:27
xorAxAxCorsac: hah14:27
timeless_mbpCorsac: adhoc + ahava?14:27
timeless_mbpahavi/? avahi?14:27
Corsacavahi14:27
Corsacbut yeah, there are other ways14:27
xorAxAxbut such an app would rock14:28
Corsacbut pure radio would be fun :)14:28
xorAxAx"Phone n900 user XYZ on this network"14:28
CorsacCQ CQ14:28
DocScrutinizer51Corsac: less than 10 mters but feasible14:28
xorAxAxdoes ekiga have avahi support?14:28
mrmgCorsac: I was playing with mine last night and it only worked really near my car radio. In my pocket it was really breaking up.14:28
Jaffawazd: Using the "Other" and "All" icons from HAM now: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30863507@N02/4268177643/14:28
Corsachttp://www.maemomobiletalk.com/2009/09/17/hamcentral/14:29
xorAxAxJaffa: when will you release? :)14:29
JaffaxorAxAx: Hope to get it in extras-devel today14:29
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xorAxAxJaffa: cool, ping me when its ready14:29
SpeedEvilapt-get for angry birds works fine14:29
timeless_mbpJaffa: so you got the strings?14:29
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: did you see my query?14:30
timeless_mbpnope14:30
Jaffatimeless_mbp: No, not yet14:31
timeless_mbpJaffa: one warning, you really want to look at en_US.0 not en_US.114:31
mrmgIs there anything for on device development?14:31
timeless_mbpbecause .1's carry legacy strings for other platforms :)14:32
timeless_mbpmrmg: you can add the sdk repo14:32
timeless_mbpor tools repo14:32
timeless_mbpadding the sdk repo is likely to make your device into a shiny brick14:32
timeless_mbpso be very careful14:32
timeless_mbppersonally, i do most of my device coding in perl w/ zenity14:33
mrmgbricking is fine, I've owned a Zaurus which spent most of it's time bricked. :)14:33
timeless_mbpso i can use my device for dv work14:33
timeless_mbps/dv/dev/14:33
infobottimeless_mbp meant: so i can use my device for dev work14:33
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jjoaika moni on kyllä tykännyt n900:sta kun on käyttänyt sitä vähän pidempään14:34
ccookemrmg: ... how did you brick a Zaurus?14:34
timeless_mbptekojo: my problem is that nokia has taken teh debian approach to bug tracking14:34
jjooops14:34
ccookemrmg: seriously, what did you *do* to it? :-)14:34
mrmgccooke: Just flashing roms14:35
timeless_mbpany bug is a valid bug and can always be added to the changelog14:35
timeless_mbpeven if the bug was never valid14:35
mrmgCould always get it back14:35
timeless_mbpor was found long after it was already fixed14:35
mrmgBut would often just be stuck with access to nothing but the flash menu14:35
ccookemrmg: oh, okay.14:35
ccookemrmg: you know there are another two rom boot modes?14:35
ccookeI wish every device was as unbrickable as the Zaurus, I have to say :-)14:36
mrmghehe14:36
mrmgI've probably gone through a fair few different modes.14:36
mrmgBut I forget most of it now14:37
mrmgccooke: You seen that new linux thing sharp have made?14:37
mrmgLooks like an ultra sexy zaurus14:37
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Stskeepswtf :P14:37
ShadowJKtigert: there's a guy in this chan who has a production (i think) device where the magnet fell out of back cover too :)14:37
ccookemrmg: build quality looked terrible, though14:37
Stskeepsi just managed to get my mer/n900 on charger to survive taking out the battery14:38
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ccookereviews confirmed it, too14:38
Stskeepsand putting it back in again14:38
ccookeStskeeps: ... really? *interesting*14:38
ccookeIt's not supposed to do that... :-)14:38
mrmgccooke: Oh damn, looked like a fun gadget14:38
redhow do I make playlists for the media player on my pc so it finds the media files on the device too?14:38
mrmghttp://www.engadget.com/2009/08/27/sharps-5-inch-pc-z1-netwalker-honors-the-zaurus-legacy/14:38
Stskeepsccooke: i assume it's going to explode in my face in a moment14:39
mrmghaha14:39
w00tStskeeps: it was nice knowing you14:40
ccookeheh14:40
Stskeepsccooke: basically it stayed up for some seconds and then shut down14:40
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ccookeStskeeps: interesting.14:40
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ccookeStskeeps: dunno if you saw me say, but my wife's n900 now has a broken microusb port. Talk about bad luck :-/14:41
gavinseems to be a common problem14:41
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gavinI know two other people whose n900 microusb ports have gotten detached14:41
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ccookeyeah14:42
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ccookeOn the plus side, I still have my loaner. So, plan: Get a battery charger, move her settings to the loaner (which also has a broken microusb), then get her phone repaired. Minimum disruption14:43
tigertred: the device finds your media files automatically14:43
tigertred: oh wait14:43
redI know, but I don't want to play by artist or genre or album.14:43
tigertred: you want to play the files on the N900 in your pc?14:43
ccookehmm. I must remember to warn her about the update problem...14:43
mrmgwhy didn't they use micro usb?14:43
redIt won't support playing by directory + subdirs14:43
tigertoh yeah14:43
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redso I want to make my own playlist files14:43
tigertit wont14:43
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ShadowJKthesov2: do you have a lab powersupply?14:44
Corsacmrmg: they do use microusb?14:44
redjust wondered how one would do them on PC so the player in N900 would recognize it14:44
tigertthe mediaplayer supports .pls for netradio...14:44
tigertmaybe those could be opened wtih filemanager?14:44
Corsacmrmg: anyway this is the standard now14:44
tigerttry if it works?14:44
ccookewell, not so much a problem. When you restore from a reflash or someone elses backup and get all their photos and image files, the phone becomes almost entirely unresponsive for an hour or two.14:44
tigertred: it doesnt probably support playlists that way though14:44
redif I save the pls on my pc, doesn't the directory structure save as my PC had them14:44
ccookeTurned out to be the thumbnail daemon...14:44
redgod the player is bad :S14:45
mrmgoh, mini-usb then14:45
mrmgMost of my other devices are mini-usb14:45
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redWhat I'd give for having a decent mp3 player on the N900.14:45
Corsacall phones are supposed to use micro-usb as a charging port now14:45
ccookemrmg: they used microusb because it's the (enforced) standard in china and (strongly recommended) new standard in Europe.14:45
mrmgred: there should be plenty?14:45
Corsacnow why it is micro and not mini, I don't know14:45
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mrmgccooke: I thought this was some propiatry port as I'm used to those other ones. No worries. At least it's a standard14:46
ccookeBecause it's smaller.14:46
mrmgWe've got in enforced in Europe too14:46
fluxccooke, it is often claimed that it is better designed for multiple disconnection/connection cycles14:46
mrmgAlthough I think it's only a 'gentlemans' agreement14:46
ccookenot enforced, just stronly reconnended.14:46
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fluxalso it has been claimed it is a better fit for the manufacturing process14:46
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tigertred: well, try .pls's14:47
tigertI dunno if they work, never tried14:47
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SpeedEvilAngry birds is so cool.14:48
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SpeedEvilYou can fail in such beautiful ways14:48
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Corsaclardman: ok, about the qr code, I tried to read a tag containing a vcard, mbarcode read it but failed to present the vcard (I guess it's just not supported)14:48
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zashvcard or mecard?14:49
tigertSpeedEvil: it is awesome :)14:49
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tigertits has the same stuff that makes numptyphysics so fun14:50
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redmrmg: plenty players so far, haven't found one decent14:50
redthey all play files np, but bein gused to iPod level functions they all seem lacking. Mainly I'd just want to be able to play back my own playlists or media by folder+subfolder way since I have alot of different gernes I listen and don't want to mix up depending on mood :P14:51
wazd_e63Konttori_nokia: around?)14:51
red-typos14:51
wazd_e63Canola can play by genre14:51
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wazd_e63And allows playlist creation otg14:52
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wazd_e63anyone interested in hue changer app?14:53
redwazd_e63: so can teh default player14:54
redif I wan't to listen to drum n bass I have to pick between Drum n' Bass, Jungle, 2-step and so on14:54
Corsacwazd_e63: can canola use gapless playback?14:54
wazd_e63It doesn't allow playlist creation imo14:54
redif Metal, I can only pick Metal, Melodic Death Metal, Trash Metal, etc14:54
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redsee the problem?14:54
apolis it possible to update the maemo thingie from linux?14:54
wazd_e63Corsac: don't think so14:54
apol(it's asking me for nokia pc suite :S)14:55
Corsacmrpf14:55
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Corsacapol: use OTA update?14:55
wazd_e63Stop listening to that music abominations :D14:55
apolwhat is OTA?14:55
wazd_e63Over the air14:56
wazd_e63Cmon guys, hue changer seems to be very basic app but it will save the world!14:57
Corsacwill i14:57
Gadgetoid_mbpred: I end up just going by artist instead of genre for moods, doesn't work so well *cries*14:57
konttori_nokiawazd_e63, yes14:57
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wazd_e63Konttori_nokia: maybe you're interested?)14:58
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konttori_nokiaof what?14:58
redGadgetoid_mbp: that's what I've been doing now and then I realized I've used mp3 player like 50% less than when I was running with iPhone14:58
redwhich is kinda sad :l14:58
wazd_e63Small app that can change theme hue right on the device14:58
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wazd_e63Konttori_nokia: ^14:59
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Gadgetoid_mbpred: I don't think the N900 will ever parallel the iPhone as a music player.. fortunately GPodder makes it a good podcast downloader... swings and roundabouts15:00
redgPodder is lovely :)15:00
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redand I know it won't parallel, N900 won't have Genius :P15:01
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SpeedEvilhuh? I just managed to fire three birds at once15:01
redI just wish it had the basic concept of playing what I wan't it to play.15:01
Gadgetoid_mbpSpeedEvil: you shouldn't have fired them in the first place15:01
rkchttp://maemo.org/development/documentation/pc_connectivity/ => this page talks about "Run Settings > Control Panel > USB networking"15:01
Gadgetoid_mbphired*15:01
rkcbut i couldnt see any control panel in my tablet15:01
Gadgetoid_mbpWay to mess up an awesome joke *facepalm*15:02
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range*clap* *clap*15:02
rkcwhere can i see the control panel?15:03
SpeedEvilAha!15:04
SpeedEvilrelease the bird, then tap immediately15:04
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slonopotamus...15:04
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slonopotamusSpeedEvil, did you try to watch instructions? :)15:05
SpeedEvilI saw none15:05
DocScrutinizer51instructions??15:05
slonopotamusSpeedEvil, blue one splits into three when you tap :P15:06
SpeedEviloh! at any time. Awesome15:06
DocScrutinizer51there was one very instructive pic for instructions15:06
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wazd_e63is it that new game for n900 with birds?15:07
SpeedEvilyes15:08
wazd_e63Gamescene on n900 is a tough place, cause you can't release  Flashback for 5 bucks here)15:09
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konttori_nokiawazd_e63, well, perhaps there are some uses, but the hue change won't be very interesting for the black themes15:09
konttori_nokiaare you planning to make one?15:10
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wazd_e63konttori_nokia: why so?)15:10
konttori_nokiaor is there one already?15:10
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wazd_e63There are already 10 variarions of black theme with different hue15:10
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wazd_e63I can't make one cause I'm not a coder, I'm looking for someone to help)15:12
lopzhi ;)15:12
slonopotamusouch15:12
slonopotamussecond screen of levels15:12
apolis is there any document about how to update maemo? i feel really lost -.- (it's asking me to backup. i do and then i can't get out of there :S)15:13
redextras-devel down?15:13
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timeless_mbpkonttori_nokia: did Stskeeps poke you about the matchbox/ .xml typo?15:14
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wazd_e63Lcuk: see, nobody's interested even in writting 40 rows of code, and you were telling me to administrate something my own :D15:16
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lcukthats because its gonna get MUCH more, theres very few themes that are a single hue15:17
lcukbut if you notice RST38h is very nicely trying to follow your xchat styling15:17
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lcukand doing a great job of it!15:17
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wazd_e63How can I notice it I wonder :D15:18
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thesovin order to flash the phone does the battery have to actually be full, or is mostly charged good enough?15:19
wazd_e63Lcuk: anyway, I doubt that hue changer is that difficult to code15:19
villagersplit the birds? ooh, was that what that picture in angry birds meant? I thought it just meant that the small birdies was good for smashing ice and the yellow birdies good for smashing wood15:20
fralsif i had the know-how to do it i'd probably do it.. but, alas, i don't ;<15:20
villagerthat game really could use some real instructions15:20
Gadgetoid_mbpthesov: plugged into mains, if you want to play it safe15:20
lcukwazd_e63, its not that much to change hue of an image, but as i said most themes are multi hued15:21
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wazd_e63Lcuk: so?15:21
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villagerI just couldn't figure that illustration out even if I tried15:22
ShadowJKthesov, out of interest, do you have a multimeter?15:22
redmmh15:22
redany MediaBox users here?15:22
wazd_e63Lcuk: is that a problem?)15:22
redfirst launch, click clear index now -> update index now and it takes 0.1sec for it to say index is up to date by no media at all is listed15:23
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slonopotamuswoah15:25
slonopotamusbomb birds rock15:26
rosheniahow can i remove devel_adhoc?15:26
pupnikmake tracker more aggressive for large lists perhaps15:26
pupnikthe new game from the bounce guys?15:26
wazd_e63Lcuk: if you change the hue value for something with nice color combination - you'll usually get another nice color combination15:26
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tybollthmm15:27
tybolltbunch of maemo updates this morning15:27
tybolltmostly qt-related...15:28
redi had updates too, and when I clicked update nothing happened and now its not listing updates anymore15:28
redmaemo 5 update was one of them hmm15:28
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tybolltred: well the updates I had would not appear in the app manager - only by doing the apt-get dance would I get them15:29
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Wolfieall apps seem to be 0.00MB in ovi store. I guess that's what makes it Beta15:30
pupnikyou think you should be able to apt-get them all?15:31
ifreqWolfie: sign in15:31
pupnikw/o ... ty ifreq15:31
redill try apt-get update15:31
Wolfieifreq: I mean in the application's description. At least Games > Arcade > Labyrinth Lite has "Arcade - 0.00 MB" underneath its screenshot15:31
Wolfieand signing in didn't make a difference15:32
pupnikahh15:32
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ifreqah okay15:32
ifreqWolfie: youll see the app size atleast when installing15:32
redwtf, my keyboard lights just went out15:32
Wolfieifreq: sure, there it's correct15:32
ifreqso didnt think so much15:32
ShadowJKred, is your room dark?15:32
Wolfieor, at least it shows something above 0.00MB ;)15:32
redShadowJK: ceiling lamp on15:33
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reddidnt realize it automaticly does it based on lighting =)15:33
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Wolfiered: the screen gets also dimmer in darker environments15:33
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Wolfiealthough, the screen is too bright in a pitch-black room15:34
ShadowJKif the light sensor thing thinks it's light enough, it switches off keyboard light, but there's also an inactivity timer that switches it off after inactivity15:34
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ShadowJKthe light sensor can't measure difference between dusk and dark, let alone dark and pitch black :(15:34
redWolfie: well I installed the app to change brightness from the system tray thigny15:34
redquite fast to put on the dimmest one15:35
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Wolfiered: I avoid using my phone in the middle of night. But it was pain in the a--, i mean eyes, when I needed to do a reminder before sleep15:36
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rkchi guys.. when i try to install some packages.. it keep on bugging about the dependancies in loop.. is there any command in apt-get to install all necessary dependancies?15:38
slonopotamusloool :D minethrowers15:38
ShadowJKit's worse when you wake up in pitch black and flip the lock button, for a moment you wonder if you accidentally stabbed yourself in the face with a lightsaber ;D15:38
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SpeedEvilyeah15:39
SpeedEvilI find the screen backlight PWM to be too slow15:39
SpeedEvilespecially reading at night15:40
SpeedEvilflickers a little at lowest illuminations15:40
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KhertanHello Everybody !15:40
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jebbaSpeedEvil: i got your modules built + cryptsetup, btw15:40
KhertanJaffa: Are you here ?15:40
SpeedEviljebba: yeah - I need to wake up today. Just been taking it easy smashing birds into rocks.15:40
wazd_e63Khertan: heya15:41
KhertanJaffa: on py2deb package pages you said : "Doesn't declare a dependency on dpkg-dev, which provides dpkg-buildpackage (which is still used!) and is only available in the SDK repo :-(" ... i didn't understand, there is no need of dpkg-buildpackage dependancy it s not used, and i ve verify.15:42
KhertanHi wazd_e6315:42
wazd_e63konttori_nokia: btw, do you plan to add templates for ham and media/clock icons?15:42
wazd_e63If they are themeable15:43
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Wolfiecan I calibrate my accelerometer somehow? it's off kilter15:44
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SpeedEvilhow off?15:45
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kirmayou can try your luck by removing batteries for a while and giving it another try15:45
kirmaI think that was suggested somewhere for a major deviation15:46
SpeedEvilAlso - if the accellerometer is reporting an accelleration towards you, you may consider a diet.15:46
kirmaeach sensor should have calibration values on it written by the sensor manufacturer15:46
wazd_e63Wow, crazy woman is yelling a lection bout USSR in the subway)15:46
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WolfieSpeedEvil: the horizon app says, on a flat table, that it's leaning 4 degrees, if i remember correctly15:46
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SpeedEvilWolfie: err.15:46
Wolfieand labyrinth lite had the ball rolling when i had my phone flat on the table15:46
* SpeedEvil thinks15:46
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konttori_nokiawazd_e63, they can be themed, but I haven't yet decided completely how to do it.15:47
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Wolfielet me recheck15:47
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mgedminWolfie, the camera cover/kickstand makes the n900 not precisely flat on the bottom, doesn't it?15:47
* konttori_nokia just bought the angry birds level pack! 15:47
SpeedEvil!math s(1/64)15:47
SpeedEviloops15:47
Wolfiemgedmin: it rolled the wrong way, in that case15:47
konttori_nokiapayment worked only on 4th attempt :(15:47
mgedminovercompensating maybe ;)15:47
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wazd_e63Konttori_nokia: share the torrent, be the first maemo pirate!))15:48
Wolfie4.1, 4.2 degrees on a flat table15:48
JaffaHmm. Conclusion on bug 7315 is interesting: "it's not like we changed it for arbitrary, subjective reasons" (after outlining arbitrary, subjective reasons ;-))15:48
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7315 X Terminal application icon looks ugly compared with previous versions15:48
konttori_nokiawazd_e63, lol!15:48
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WolfieSpeedEvil: it's like it's skewed a bit on all axes15:49
SpeedEvilWolfie: I am too tired for trig.15:49
JaffaGood to see a new nokian15:49
SpeedEvilWolfie: but that's getting close to the fundamental inaccuracies in the device.15:49
Wolfiewhat I believe to be "standing on its bottom side", the horizon thinks my phone is tilted a bit downwards15:49
wazd_e63konttori_nokia: I'll download it just to join you in this rebellion!15:49
WolfieSpeedEvil: that's a bummer. You mean it can't even be calibrated for in the driver?15:50
Wolfiewhat I'd like is to have a similar calibration as for the touch screen. "lay the phone on a flat surface and press [here]" -type of thing15:50
SpeedEvilWolfie: It reads at a resolution of 8mG15:50
SpeedEvilor is it 1615:50
kirmaI wonder if liqacceltests tries to compensate for variable gravity at all15:50
Stskeepswazd_e63: theme-variant-example allows you to theme media player at least15:51
WolfieSpeedEvil: but the innaccuracy seems to be constant. it's constantly skewed one way. So it should be compensateable15:51
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Wolfies/constant/consistent/15:51
infobotWolfie meant: SpeedEvil: but the innaccuracy seems to be consistent. it's constantly skewed one way. So it should be compensateable15:51
SpeedEvilyeah - 18mG15:51
hrwheh...15:51
wazd_e63Stskeeps: yep, I saw that)15:51
villagerWolfie: you sure your table is perfectly perpendicular to the Earth's gravitational pull, then?15:51
SpeedEvilyes - you'd need to have a calibration thingy to set zero15:51
SpeedEvil4 degrees is a noticable tilt15:51
wazd_e63Stskeeps: but haven't found anything bout clock for example15:51
Gadgetoid_mbpOh dear, Angry Birds is dangerously good15:52
kirmaI suspect it doesn't, since I can't get angles up to 90 degrees, but it stops around 80 degrees15:52
Wolfievillager: with a certain degree of certainty, sure15:52
SpeedEvilThe typical zero degree offset is 40mG15:52
Wolfiei'd imagine I'd notice 4 degrees of tilt15:52
wazd_e63Is there a version of angry birds for symbian 3rd? ^^15:53
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Wolfieif nothing else, my chair would roll off into one direction15:53
lcukWolfie, is this when you lie it with screen up15:53
lcukie with the camera nobble in the way15:54
kirmasensor might be soldered at an angle on the circuit board15:54
lcuktoo much n900fly knocked it out of whack15:54
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Wolfielcuk: nope, when have the camera pointed away from me15:54
Wolfienever installed n900fly :)15:55
lcuktheres been a few people talking about this15:55
lcukit is something that should be looked at and find a way to incorporate calibration into the driver before apps see it15:55
lcukcould you file a bug if there isnt one already15:55
Wolfieas a sanity check, i held the camera in my hands and tried to frame it straight in relation to the rest of the room. It was still 2-4 degrees off15:55
SpeedEvilyeah - the uncalibrated error will be on the order of 4 degrees max.15:55
kirmamy angles seem relatively fine with liqacceltests - except the fact it doesn't seem to do full range of angles.15:56
Wolfielcuk: i could try to remember. It's time to set off for home.15:56
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: on FR we seen even more15:56
lcukok wolfie15:56
Arkenoiwhere is my updaaaate?15:57
NitialI have it15:57
redeemanhas anyone noticed changes in the email behavior since the update?15:57
Nitialin my n90015:57
SpeedEvilkirma: the accel varies from 16.2 to 19.8mG/bit resolution worst-case.15:57
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Wolfieooh, can bugzilla attach files? i could include a photo with a bubble-level ;)15:57
redeemanthe email client doesn't appear to display attached images anymore in the signature, and im certain it did just a few days ago, in fact i have a screenshot of it i used to show it to a friend, but now it does not do it15:58
Wolfies/level/level comparison/15:58
infobotWolfie meant: ooh, can bugzilla attach files? i could include a photo with a bubble-level comparison ;)15:58
SpeedEvilSo it may vary from an output count of 50-60 with 1G along the axis.15:58
kirmaspeedevil: separately per axis, or for all axes together?15:58
Wolfiehome ->15:58
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SpeedEvilkirma: the sensitivity is not specified to track per axes.15:58
SpeedEvilkirma: so assume worst case.15:58
lupine_85oh, wow. I'm /liking/ the integration with Jabber15:58
SpeedEvilkirma: so 50-60 max - for 1G - with up to 2and a bit bits of error.15:59
ShadowJKwith N900 sitting still, how much do the values vary by? I remember it looked fairly consistently quantized :)15:59
SpeedEvilkirma: this is from the LIS302dl datasheet.15:59
kirmano matter what angle I put the device, I can't go much over 80 degrees on it. I suspect some sort of normalization might make sense (?)15:59
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SpeedEvilyes.16:01
SpeedEvilTo do it sanely, you're at least going to need a user cal procedure.16:01
ShadowJKiirc I was able to find 1.00 on all axis16:01
SpeedEvilPlace on front and back on level table.16:01
lcukthat has problems with camera16:01
SpeedEvilhmm - true16:02
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lcukhang on tho16:02
lcukno it doesnt16:02
lcukthats meant to be accounted for16:02
SpeedEvilrotate phone slowly looking for maximums in each axes16:02
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lcukliqacceltests has some doody things for this sorta stuff16:02
SpeedEvilThe accellerometer datasheet says that it should be mostly stable per sensor16:03
lcukat STP16:03
lcukbut you cannot fix the world16:03
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: lis302 also has a builtin test/calib feature iirc16:03
redhow do I run the update commands in apt-get?16:04
SpeedEvilI hate datasheets with no noise or linearity info16:04
redI know how to refresh the listings16:04
kirmaassuming the device is not under acceleration other than the gravity, normalizing that to one unit should be ok... and after all, the device *should* have factory-calibrated corrections in place16:04
GeneralAntillesYou know, I think the most irritating part of Nokia's process is that people start out entrenched whenever a bug that could be construed as even marginally subjective is filed.16:05
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SpeedEvilself test is pretty useless. Self test merely indicates teh device functions.16:05
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SpeedEvil(it generates an output - the magnitude of the otuput isn't specified)16:05
SpeedEvilkirma: indeed.16:05
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: sorry could you rephrase. my poor English... :-/16:06
kirmacalibration is supposed to fix zero level and sensitivity... and by any sensibility, it should compensate for axes separately if that's necessary.16:06
SpeedEvilkirma: but does it.16:06
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SpeedEvilI suppose reading the driver is a way to see if it's implemented in that.16:07
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StskeepsX-Fade: still have stage SVN somewhere?16:07
AndrewFBlack-Worjoppu, ping16:07
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51, whenever a bug is filed we get to file it so late in their process that they've already had all of the discussions and reached a position.16:07
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51, so there's no chance to have a reasoned discussion.16:07
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer51, they're already completely entrenched and immovable.16:08
wazd_e63Ok, I've found the developer for my epic app )16:08
X-FadeStskeeps: Yes.16:08
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Nice comment on #7315 :)16:08
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: thanks16:08
wazd_e63themming world will be saved soon16:08
AndrewFBlack-Woranyone know the current license the two default themes for Fremantle and released under?16:08
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, I'm so tired of the situation I've outlined above that I don't have the energy to hold back the snark. ;)16:08
JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed16:09
X-FadeStskeeps: Switched it on. Get it while it is still up :)16:09
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, belated congratulations, by the way. :)16:09
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ShadowJKoh wow, now this looks stupid after I semiblindly reposted bugzilla comments after the erase :)16:09
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, very well deserved.16:09
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Thanks, although I have no time atm to do that part of the job ;)16:10
StskeepsX-Fade: hm, ok, not there16:10
Stskeepsinteresting16:10
X-FadeStskeeps: Still things missing?16:10
kirmawell, I don't speak of driver-level calibration. normal gravity differs on different locations, and one has to live with that. but one thing one might assume is that zero level is correct and that axes have same sensitivity, and this should be already provided by factory-level calibration settings... which are initiated by BOOT on CTRL_REG216:10
StskeepsX-Fade: just a commit message that pointed to a svn thing that doesn't exist anymore16:11
Stskeepsnm :) thanks for opening temporarily16:11
SpeedEvilkirma: yes - I don't see any calibration comments or functions in the driver.16:11
X-FadeStskeeps: Killing it again ;)16:11
SpeedEvilkirma: of course they could be above the driver16:11
wazd_e63andrewfblack: joppu: kontorri: look like I've found the place in the theme template for ovi widget16:11
AndrewFBlack-Worwazd_e63, where at?16:11
ShadowJKandre__, if you can delete stuff, feel free to delete last comment to 7618... I just blindly resubmitted after getting an email asking that, and other people had in the meanwhile figured out the bug..16:12
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: joppu: and in case you haven't heard - I'm working on theme hue changer app )16:12
SpeedEvilkirma: ah - missed that16:12
wazd_e63Andrew16:12
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: on the right from rss skin16:12
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wazd_e63Andrewfblack: there are some squares that looks just like ovi16:13
AndrewFBlack-Worwazd_e63, Cool I just hope that application doesn´t cause a million of the same theme with a slightly changed color16:13
andre__ShadowJK, hehe. no, I don't delete stuff :)16:14
DocScrutinizer51kirma: ack16:14
lcukwazd you should make a theme template with full rainbow color sweep (hippy tshirt)  then you can identify any area within the entire os based on the color you see16:14
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: well, in fact it will kill all of them16:15
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SpeedEvilkirma: odd. I can find no listing in the datasheet for what teh calibration does.16:15
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: since user will chose hue of his own16:15
AndrewFBlack-Worwazd_e63, ahh ou mean an application on the phone that changes hue?16:15
SpeedEvilkirma: and if it makes it better than the stated figures - surely that'd be listed.16:15
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: yep16:15
lcukwazd_e63, you were going to modify an in use theme?  in place without a new variaiton being stored?16:15
redhow does the backup app work16:16
DocScrutinizer51kirma: first you calculate arctan(x,y) and x,z y,z16:16
redit says "memory card exported via usb connection."16:16
redand cant push anything16:16
kirmaSpeedEvil: indeed, it's hard to say if the numbers are raw or calibrated ones16:16
redand i did not tell it to do a back up yet or anything16:16
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wazd_e63Lcuk: it will save old hue state and revert it if needed16:16
lcukare themes optified?16:16
wazd_e63Lcuk: no need to back up files16:16
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DocScrutinizer51kirma: then you rotate the vector for calibration of smt mechanical errors of lis302 chip16:17
AndrewFBlack-Worwazd_e63, does it permantly can the hue to the theme image files?  So no way of going back?16:17
wazd_e63Lcuk: yes16:17
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: well16:17
kirmaSpeedEvil: http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/12726.pdf ... page 27/42 has a small tidbit, but not much about it16:17
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I don't think so.16:17
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: as I said - it will save old hue state16:17
redMaemo 5 update says not enough space in target location.16:17
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: first you need to find per-axes offset and gain errors, then fix those.16:17
redany suggestions?16:17
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Then work out the axes skew seperately.16:18
AndrewFBlack-WorI think we really need to push to get theme maker finished and fixed16:18
ShadowJKunplug usb cable before running the backup application16:18
redShadowJK: okay16:18
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: there shouldn't be such errors afaik16:18
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: what errors?16:19
lcukAndrewfblack, wazd_e63 adding a "change hue" option to thememaker sounds like a more realistic initial step16:19
DocScrutinizer51lis302 zero should be zero actually16:19
lcukbut i can see wazds point, cos windows has hue variations16:19
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: we were pushing like rabbits here yesterday))16:19
kirmaI believe SMT mechanical errors are not included in the calibration, only the way the sensor fabrication and in-package layout have caused16:19
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lcukeven the buttons in liqbase are dynamically hued16:19
lcuk/tinted16:19
kirmas/way/those/16:19
infobotkirma meant: I believe SMT mechanical errors are not included in the calibration, only the those the sensor fabrication and in-package layout have caused16:19
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: and the gain of each axis should be considerably identical16:19
SpeedEvilkirma: I see nothing in the datasheet saying that these are calibrated errors that it's listing.16:20
wazd_e63Lcuk: you have any image editor to change hue on your pc16:20
wazd_e63Lcuk: that makes no sense16:20
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: the datasheet seems to disagree. Page 10. offset error - 40mG16:20
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wazd_e63Lcuk: the idea is to change it right on the device16:20
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: anyway it wouldn't hurt to calibrate thos errors prior to doing first math translation16:20
SpeedEvil'typical 0G level offset'16:20
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SpeedEvilHmm. that's even a typical unguaranteed spec.16:21
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: k. My point was you must NOT mix this offset and gain calib with the adjustment for mounting angle of chip16:22
SpeedEvilyes.16:22
SpeedEvilI thought you were saying do the angle calibration first.16:22
SpeedEvilWhen that must come last.16:22
kirmathe whole purpose of the acceleration sensor is to figure out the orientation of the device pretty roughly, albeit preferably at better precision than just to detect what edge is most down16:22
wazd_e63And I still want to code the autodithering script for PS16:23
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: so first do a calib of gain and offset by *slowly* rotating the device16:23
ccooke... Has anyone ever got flipclock working on the n900?16:23
SpeedEvilkirma: yeah - that was what I was suggesting way above.16:23
AndrewFBlack-Worwazd_e63, I know Kontorri technically does it as a side project and not as his job but I don't see why Nokia couldn´t have some one contracted to work on it full time for a little while if Kontorri is to busy to work on it16:23
DocScrutinizer51then on a second step adjust the skew of SMT between chip and case16:23
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer:16:23
kirmabut I must say I find it amusing that a piece of software can't go up to 85+ degrees of angle at all ;)16:24
SpeedEvil:)16:24
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wazd_e63Andrewfblack: nokians have their own tools16:24
ArkenoiIs there a bug in bmo for Qt text entry already? Cannot find it16:24
wazd_e63Andrewfblack: why should they care)16:24
Stskeepswazd_e63: can't imagemagick do something like this?16:25
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AndrewFBlack-Worwazd_e63, it would incease number of themes for the device and since everyone ones likes themes it would increase people who buy the phone some16:25
wazd_e63Stskeeps: dunno how to use it16:25
redanyone else had troubles updating gpodder 2.1-1 (luminous fish something). it constantly appears in my updates but says conflicting packages16:25
Stskeepswazd_e63: it's a set of image manipulation tools16:25
wazd_e63Stskeeps: but I know how to script photoshop)16:25
Arkenoired: same for me16:25
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Jef91Morning all - anyone else here use the easy-deb-chroot package?16:26
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SpeedEvilkirma: hmm - see note 4 on offset on typOff. 'after MSL3 preconditioning' - which could be a reference to the factory cal16:27
DocScrutinizer51kirma: what's name of suggested app to test those issues?16:27
kirmaSpeedEvil: maybe so.16:28
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: what source you're talking bout?16:29
DocScrutinizer51datasheet?16:29
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: the lis302dl datasheet16:29
DocScrutinizer51k16:29
SpeedEviloct 2008 revision16:29
kirmaDocScrutinizer51: no hardcore test tool I guess, but liqacceltests does something, and has even support to enable/disable filtering (probably not a hardware/driver feature but software everybody seems to use)16:30
Stskeepswazd_e63: did you see test/ directory wallpaper?16:31
DocScrutinizer51kirma: probably. I only remeber a select option in lis302 hw for 100/400Hz sampling freq16:31
Stskeepsit's like dexter.16:31
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wazd_e63Stskeeps: nope16:32
wazd_e63Stskeeps:16:32
Stskeepswazd_e63: it's the blue water wallpaper but with red instead16:32
Stskeepslooks really bloody :>16:32
wazd_e63Stskeeps: I was too excited with coordinates.png :D16:32
DocScrutinizer51kirma: apt-get install liqacceltests?16:32
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wazd_e63Andrewfblack: have you seen my attempt on Mer boot video btw?16:32
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kirmaDocScrutinizer51: I installed it from extras-testing... I believe16:33
AndrewFBlack-Worwazd_e63, nope havn seen it16:33
hrwGuySoft: is forum nokia accounts not same as ovi store ones?16:33
wazd_e63Oh, I haven't posted it here16:33
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wazd_e63Stskeeps: can you share the link please?16:33
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Stskeeps http://lotro.ucoz.ru/Mer_boot_4.avi16:34
tybollthmm16:34
wazd_e63Stskeeps: thx16:35
tybolltanyone else that is unable to access www.ovi.mobi?16:35
tybolltehr via the link from inside ovi store?16:35
wazd_e63Damn, typing with swipes is like sex ))16:35
kirma"typing with swipes" ?16:35
tybollthttps://www.ovi.mobi16:35
X-Fadetybollt: try store.ovi.mobi ;)16:36
tybolltX-Fade: meh :P16:36
wazd_e63Well, pressing neighbour keys with a single press16:36
tybolltI want to get at other parts of the ovi shitz16:36
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wazd_e63like drew for example16:36
tybolltand by doing so - you get an orgasm eventually?16:37
tybolltmust be hard to type very much on that keyboard :S16:37
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wazd_e63Tybollt:16:38
wazd_e63tybollt: you bet)16:38
Stskeepsjoppu, AndrewFBlack-Wor, wazd_e63: if i made a source package template for n900 themes, would you use it? :P16:38
hrw~hail apt-get16:38
* infobot bows down to apt-get and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"16:38
AndrewFBlack-WorStskeeps, what you mean?16:38
wazd_e63Stskeeps: me? Sure :)16:38
StskeepsAndrewFBlack-Wor: like real themes are made, without thememaker :P16:38
AndrewFBlack-WorStskeeps, yeah16:38
hrwmuch easier to check ovi store ;D16:39
tybollthrw: woot?16:39
AndrewFBlack-WorStskeeps, been wanting to do it that way but never been sure how to do it16:39
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GuySofthrw, i dono, why did you ask me? :-/16:42
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jon1012when I try to install angry bird I get an "unable to install" error16:43
jon1012anyone got the same ?16:43
hrwGuySoft: sorry - irssi expanded 'guys:'16:44
andre__jon1012: what is that? and from where? and how?16:44
jon1012in app manager16:44
jon1012and since red pill mode was deactivated I can't get the log16:44
hrwtybollt: less /var/lib/apt/lists/downloads.maemo.nokia.com_fremantle_ovi_._Packages and use apt-get to install them without going to ovi store16:44
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jon1012(clicking in the ovi store)16:44
jon1012(bring the app manager)16:44
jon1012(to install "angry bird")16:44
jon1012'all the other apps install, but angry birds not)16:45
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odin_jebba, ping ?16:45
jon1012(it tells me "unable to install application" in a big yellow popup)16:45
DocScrutinizer51kirma: SpeedEvil: liqacceltest seems kinda wrong. how can arctan(0, x) change for changing x?16:45
Jef91jon1012 does it even download the app?16:46
jon1012yeah16:46
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jon1012but it's at the install step that it borks16:46
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jon1012(why did they remove red pill mode ? :()16:46
jon1012(will they remove terminal as well in next revisions or what ?)16:46
Stskeepsred pill is bad bad bad karma16:47
Jef91jon1012 I've never even used red pill mode - just drop down to terminal and use dpkg16:47
felipecanyone has used maemo-sdk+ on a non-debian system?16:47
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DocScrutinizer51red pil is dead in 1.0.1 I heard16:47
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VReI really wonder if this ovi is kept as browser based, that how they are going to even compete with the Application Manager in nice to use category..16:47
ShadowJKthis browser based thing is interesting, on symbian it's about as slow as native ;-D16:48
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Jef91VRe agreed. having to load a webpage is stupid16:48
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SpeedEvilcrappy test tool: http://www.mauve.plus.com/axes16:50
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SpeedEvil16300 -1098:1152 -1062:1044 -1098:118816:51
SpeedEvilseems to be about the limits of mine16:51
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SpeedEvilwhich shows a bit of offset - but not  bad. (iteration, x/y/z max/mins16:52
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wazd_e63Y16:54
wazd_e63Damn, so cold)16:54
SpeedEvilWarming up here. 6C (inside)16:54
SpeedEvila balmy 2 out.16:54
AndrewFBlack-Woranyoe know where new app manaer icons are kept?16:55
AndrewFBlack-Worthey in icon folder or theme folder like media player icons16:55
wazd_e63I have something like -20 here)16:55
JamieBennettAnyone know how I would get a list of all packages installed on the N900 by default, I want to see what extra's I've installed from vanilla?16:55
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Tonzasanyone know is there some combination for tab key at n900 :p16:56
jon1012Tonzas: ctrl + i16:57
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Tonzasjon1012: ah i see, ty16:59
saltsa_JamieBennett, I think some dpkg* command will tell you the install date of the package16:59
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