IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-12-24

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xevioxas the synaptic manager just offer Creator 1.2.x I will use the download from, anything I should take special care?00:00
Milo-uh oh, I have a virus on my phone00:00
JaffaMilo-: If is broken, contact X-Fade; then you can contact the developer ;-)00:00
Milo-called 'foreca installer'00:00
Milo-there we go, got rid of that virus nice and easily00:00
JaffaMilo-: Oh, that's provided by a Nokia business partner, Foreca :)00:01
xevioxMilo-: virus??? on the n900 ?00:01
Jaffaxeviox: I think I just ran the installer on Ubuntu without problems; but only briefly played with it.00:01
Milo-xeviox yes. *-installer == virus00:01
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Jaffaxeviox: To clarify, Milo- is being facetious :)00:02
Milo-22:06:47   Gadgetoid_mbp >> ali1234: those installers are a bit like the AOL trials of the mobile world00:02
Milo-22:06:17   ali1234 >> a metapackage that removes all those dumb "installers" and then enables all the extras repos00:02
Milo-slightly in wrong order00:02
Milo-but you get the picture :(00:02
ali1234yeah, there's a chicken-egg problem there unfortunately00:02
ali1234unless said package could be got into extras00:03
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Milo-Jaffa is X-Fade in charge of
JaffaMilo-: yup00:05
Milo-okay, but I don't think he will change its location to a real server :P00:05
Milo-which is the issue at hand.00:05
JaffaThat is in hand ;-)00:05
Milo-I know, I was stunned how I wrote 'at'00:06
Proteousworth two in the bush I always say00:06
JaffaMilo-: I (for once) wasn't trying to be pedantic: servers are being upgraded atm00:07
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Gadgetoid_mbpCrapware on phones, whatever next00:07
xevioxhmm now I downloaded the binary for linux and just got a .bin file, what should I do with it?? (sorry I'm not that experienced with linux :( )00:07
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melmothit s most probably an auto install script thingy. chmod +x foo.bin; ./foo.bin00:08
Jaffaxeviox: I think melmoth's right; I believe there are instructions somehwere00:09
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xevioxk I'll try :D00:11
xevioxthank you00:11
AakashPatelIs anyone here good with Qt C++?00:11
xevioxwhich is the path that is shared from scratchbox? (Where I have to store the files generated by the IDE)00:12
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xevioxmelmoth: wow that did the trick, thank you :D00:15
xevioxvery cool00:15
xevioxI begin to really love linux :D00:15
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xevioxwhat is the default path apps are installed on linux? (like Program Files on windows)00:16
melmoththere is no such thing. but typical location are /bin and /usr/bin00:17
xevioxthank you00:17
xevioxthen I'll need /usr/bin as I didn't start it with sudo, right?00:18
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melmothyou will need root privilege to install thing in /usr/bin00:18
melmothwithin scratchbox, use fakeroot instead of sudo00:19
xevioxso what's the difference between /bin and /usr/bin?00:19
xevioxrunning the installer with sudo it's default path is /opt/...00:20
xeviox?!? I'm confused ^00:20
SpeedEvil /bin is generally the applications used in early boot00:20
SpeedEvilAnd /sbin00:20
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SpeedEvil /usr/bin is the 'userland' applications installed by default in your OS00:20
matanwhich explains why /usr can't all be in /opt.00:21
ShadikkaThat might help. :)00:21
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Diseasehello !00:23
Diseaseare there french users here plz ?00:23
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SpeedEvilWell - at least one.00:24
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xevioxso following some tips on the net I can install it in /bin (but shouldn't because it's not delivered with the distri) same for /usr/bin or in /opt (optional software) or in /usr/local/bin (tip from the internet)00:24
xevioxso, which should I use ?? ^^00:24
xevioxthank you all for the help00:24
xevioxI know how annoying it could be to get all the newby questions ..00:25
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SpeedEvilSorry - what are you doing again?00:26
xevioxSpeedEvil: I try to install the Qt Creator on the host system00:26
SpeedEvilSorry - never played with that.00:27
xevioxnow I'm confused in which directory I should install the binaries ..00:27
SpeedEvillook for a install fil, or instructions where you downloaded it00:27
SpeedEvilis there one binary, or many?00:27
xevioxI have an installer, but it asks me where to put the binaries00:27
fdvuhm. can anybody tell me where to start with python on n900? Is there a hildon python module or are there other libs? Is there some updated introductory docs somewhere?00:27
SpeedEvil /usr/local/bin/ is probably saf00:27
SpeedEvilThis is for local binaries that are not installed by the system00:28
xevioxSpeedEvil: so I should not use the installers default /opt ?00:28
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SpeedEvilleave it at default00:28
SpeedEvilprobably not a bad plan00:28
xevioxk ^^00:28
xevioxwindows makes that one easier lol00:29
melmothfdv if you have never done any python before, start with the official python tutorial00:29
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ShadikkaPython <300:29
xevioxwhat is the directory that is shared between the host and scratchbox?00:30
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jebbahey can someone run this in the terminal and paste me the outputs?  It just gets your xterm key settings:00:31
jebbagconftool-2 --get /apps/osso/xterm/keys00:31
jebbagconftool-2 --get /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels00:31
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melmothhmmm, /scratchbox/user/home/user if i remember correctly00:31
xevioxah cool thanks00:31
fdvmelmoth: I've done my share of python, I'm just curious which libraries are the best to start with on maemo 5. I've just set up scratchbox and there doesn't seem to be a python-hildon package in the default set of repos at least00:31
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melmoth~ $  gconftool-2 --get /apps/osso/xterm/keys00:31
melmoth~ $  gconftool-2 --get /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels00:31
melmoth~ $00:31
infoboti heard $ is a dollar sign00:31
fdvmelmoth: gui libs, that is00:32
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fdvhildon is a set of gtk extensions, right?00:32
jebbacool, thx melmoth  :)00:32
xevioxas you guys don't use the Qt Creator, which IDEs do you use for development?00:33
fdvmelmoth: great, thanks00:33
melmothshould not be that much different in maemo500:33
ShadikkaI didn't even know of such an article.00:33
* Shadikka is ashamed.00:33
melmothbut they are some slight difference in some gtk function prototype00:33
fdvwell, there is always progress ;)00:33
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fdvsaw that page, it's just hard to tell what's the latest and greatest00:35
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melmothit s not the latest, but the general idea is there00:35
melmothif you used to use glade, you ll have to do a reparent trick for the main window to have it hildonised00:35
melmothi think the following article mention the issue:
fdvok, thanks. I've rarely used glade, though, never written that many GUIs :)00:36
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melmothbut basically, what you have is a usual pygtk environment, plus some maemo specific thingy such as hildon, osso, libconic ...00:36
fdvmelmoth: python2.5-sdk doesn't seem to exist, though00:36
fdvare they in some other repo?00:38
MilhouseNo additional portrait functionality in 51-1 then, just bug fixes?00:39
Arkenoiare there any outliners/mind mapping programs being ported?00:39
melmothfdv apt-cache search python |grep gtk should give you available package00:39
melmoththe above article was written for maemo4, the package list may have changed in fremantle00:40
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fdvit appears to have. I'll try python2.5-gtk-dev00:40
fdvgtk2, that is00:40
fdvhm. no hildon there either. apt-cache search python.*hildon draws a blank00:41
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melmothjust install any (hildonised) pygtk app in your sdk with apt-get, you ll have the lib.00:43
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fdvany suggestions, btw? I'm really new to maemo00:48
grondiluIP via bluetooth :  quelqu'un a réussi ?00:48
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grondilusorry :  IP via bluetooth :  has comeone actually succeeded ?00:49
grondiluIP via bluetooth :  has anyone actually succeeded ?00:49
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LantiziaAnyone know if there is a maximum size to the micro SD the N900 can handle?00:52
grondilu16Go I think00:53
Arkenoimore like 3200:53
Arkenoithere was one in "hackerbox" edition, right?00:54
grondiluI doubt it was 32Go00:55
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SpeedEvilIt will be at least several terabytes with SDXC - which is electrically compatible00:56
SpeedEvilit will need new protocol drivers, and if you want to maintain compatibility a new stupid MS FS.00:56
grondiluseveral terabytes ??00:56
SpeedEvilNot now of course00:56
SpeedEvilthe SDXC standard goes up to a few T IIRC00:57
grondiluIt won't be possible to address such large amount of memory, will it ?00:58
SpeedEvilgrondilu: yes, it's possible.00:59
SpeedEvilgrondilu: it's not a RAM like thing00:59
SpeedEvilgrondilu: it's more like a USB stick in some ways.00:59
SpeedEvilgrondilu: or a NFS drive00:59
SpeedEvilthe size is not rigidly set by the electrical interface.01:00
grondiluand it will work on a N900  ???   (I can't even imagine...)01:00
SpeedEvilAs I understand it, yes.01:00
SpeedEvilIt will need a new kernel.01:01
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Arkenoiwhat is the recommended and less intrusive (more reliable) way of moving parts of / to a different fs? is there a script that surely won't break things? ;-)01:14
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threshdunno if it only works with .deb packages though01:15
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xevioxI've created a little app with Qt and ran qmake to create the makefile01:20
xevioxafter running make I get some .o files01:20
xevioxbut nothing else01:20
xevioxso which is the "executable"?01:20
BabelOxeviox: what is in your .pro file01:21
xevioxah wait01:21
xevioxI called the project "TestProject"01:21
xevioxnow there is a File "TestProject" in the folder, without any extension01:22
xevioxis that the executable?01:22
BabelOit is the executable yes01:22
xevioxah cool01:22
xevioxshould I rename it to get an extension? like .bin ?01:22
BabelOno unix binary have no extension01:23
xevioxah ok01:23
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xevioxI really have to learn much more about unix / linux ;)01:23
xevioxthank you01:23
ifreqyeah, start with manpages ands tuff01:23
BabelOuse command file ./TestProject to check that your build architecture01:23
xevioxah ok01:24
xevioxls also shows it highlighted in green :D01:24
xevioxthe first "running" qt app on maemo01:24
grondiluxeviox: The books of O'Realy editor are good too01:24
xevioxdo I have to use the same package sources for armel as for x86 (to install qtdev tools and qt technical preview)?01:25
xevioxgrondilu: ah cool, I'll take a look :)01:25
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Arkenoithresh, i'd prefer something that will work on things already installed01:30
MilhouseAnyone here who does the QA of apps in extras?01:30
jebbaany clue how to get a key to trigger a script? Like pressing the british pound symbol to run something?01:30
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VDVsxMilhouse, what's the problem ?01:30
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Anidelhello guys01:31
Anidelany community-tester around ?01:31
VDVsxhey Anidel01:31
MilhouseIt's a real nit, but just noticing a few apps where the description in App Manager doesn't begin with capital letter, eg. liqflow "finger friendly fluid dynamics etc." should be "Finger friendly..."01:31
Anidelhi valerio, I guess you are01:31
MilhouseAlso liqtorch and Hex-a-Hop same issue.01:32
MilhouseAs I say, it's a real nit but it's an easy thing to enforce/insist upon01:32
MilhouseeCoach is a special case of course :)01:33
AnidelVDVsx you there?01:33
MilhouseSopwith is another01:33
MilhouseMaybe I should open a bug...01:33
ali1234i say we just ban capital letters completely. it would save a lot of work. plus it would free up a key on the n900 keyboard :)01:33
VDVsxMilhouse, yes please, since that against the debian policy afaik01:34
MilhouseAdd OpenVPN to the list, so just those 5 - not bad. ok will do, under what category/product, any idea?01:34
VDVsxMilhouse, but I'm afraid that isn't a blocker according to the q&a01:35
Milhouseshame - kinda lowers the tone01:35
VDVsxMilhouse, you should report the bug against the project itself01:35
VDVsxall have bugtrackers01:35
ali1234Milhouse: your best chance is probably opening bugs against each package on garage01:35
Milhouseumm, ok (milhouse wishes he hadn't started this now :))01:36
Milhousebollox to garage i want to be in bed within the next 2 hours01:36
Milhousegarage is like wading through treacle01:36
fdvmelmoth: I was missing the pymaemo repo. thanks for your help :)01:37
Milhousewill raise the bugs in b.m.o01:37
MilhouseVDVsx - if you are involved in the QA, could you and your colleagues keep an eye out for this kind of nit picking?01:37
Milhousearse, most of the offending apps don't have entries in b.m.o01:38
xevioxwhere can I get the qt-technical-preview sources for arm?01:38
xevioxor better where to find the packages?01:39
Milhouseerr.. nor are they in garage01:40
VDVsxMilhouse, yes no problem :), I already reported a few bugs against apps that use the app name in the short description :) will give more attention to that particular issue01:40
VDVsxMilhouse, better use the package interface01:40
Milhouseoh right ta01:41
Milhousemuch better, thanks01:41
VDVsxfor e.g:
VDVsxthe bug tracker is there01:42
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Milhouseno luck with
Milhousedon't think it's got a bugtracker has it?01:43
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Milhouseno bug tracker for sopwith, liqflow or liqtorch01:46
VDVsxlcuk, ping01:46
VDVsxMilhouse, for sopwith you can comment here:
xevioxseems that I broke my arm target in scratchbox, any ways to rebuild it?01:47
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Milhousehi lcuk01:47
Milhouse(thanks VDVsc)01:47
lcukxeviox, plaster cast01:47
xevioxlcuk: ??01:47
VDVsxMilhouse, np :)01:47
lcuk"<xeviox> seems that I broke my arm "01:47
Milhouselcuk: as above, just a couple of nits with liqflow/liqtorch in the App Manager description01:48
xevioxlcuk: the arm target in scratchbox ..01:48
lcukMilhouse, theres a bugtracker now, but its not linked to the account yet, has them01:48
ali1234xeviox: there's a way to reset the target in sb-menu01:48
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xevioxis it possible to reset it to the install default of the sdk?01:48
lcukim making changes now to liqflow and will be changing01:48
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lcukbut if you would make a note in there please01:49
xevioxali1234: yes, but after resetting it doesn't know the apt-get command... so it seems he deleted everything ..01:49
lcuk"not linked to the app yet"01:49
ali1234xeviox: seems like you broke it really bad then...01:49
Milhousecouldn't find them in b.m.o - you sure they're there or do you want it in liqbase (think thats there)01:49
ali1234xeviox: i can't help sorry...01:50
xevioxnp thanks01:50
lcukMilhouse, they are part of liqbase01:50
lcuka component thereof01:50
Milhouseok will file shortly01:50
lcukthey exist either standalone of embedded01:50
ali1234xeviox: reseting the target should not delete "everything" like that, so i dunno...01:50
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Milhouse7290 and 7291, gary! :)01:55
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xevioxk, there are to options in sb-menu01:55
xevioxone is Clear that seems to clear a target01:56
VDVsxMilhouse, humm the capital char at the begging of description is not referred in debian policy, at least I can't find that rule o_001:56
xevioxand one is Setup to setup a target01:56
xevioxI've run setup with arm compiler01:56
Milhouseah, i thought someone mentioned it here - oh well01:56
Milhousewell, it looks nicer if capitalised01:56
xevioxnow I get the following error: E: Unable to determine a suitable packaging system type01:57
xevioxwhen I run "fakeroot apt-get update"01:57
VDVsxMilhouse, yes, of course, and is the correct way, at least in English :)01:57
VDVsxMilhouse, but that way this is not a bug, is enhancement instead :D01:57
xevioxhmm there is no folder / file in /etc01:58
Milhouseemm yes... don't we have Maemo packaging standards?01:58
VDVsxfor the records the rules are here:
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xevioxcan someone give me the content of his /etc/apt/sources.list file? (in the arm target)01:58
Macerhell yeah. clocking almost 100K/s over my tethered G1 :)01:58
MilhouseI'd push for it to be in our standards even if not part of Debian01:58
Macerway better than xp was going01:58
Macerover a samba share using a vpn01:58
Milhouseof course there are good reasons to allow exceptions, ie. the description on eCoach01:59
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Milhousebut on the whole, conform with standard English when the description is in English01:59
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Milhouseok that's bugs filed against hex-a-hop, liqbase *2 and openvpn but sopwith is out of my reach02:00
VDVsxMilhouse, I agree02:00
VDVsxfor sopwith you can comment in the package interface02:01
Milhousei'll try that now02:01
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VDVsxmikkov is the maintainer, not here atm it seems02:02
Milhousei'm being thick, where do i leave a comment?02:02
Milhousei'm on this page:
xevioxwhat is a rootstrap for scratchbox?02:03
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SmilybOrgMilhouse it seems that you have to go into the version you want to comment on02:05
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Smilylike so:
Milhousegotcah - many thanks02:06
infobotMilhouse meant: gotcha - many thanks02:06
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xevioxis it possible to draw chinese and arabic text on maemo?02:19
ml-N900not yet, at least not without abusing emacs02:20
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xevioxis it possible to load fonts?02:21
xevioxdamn, I don't get scratchbox to restore the arm target *grr02:23
xevioxis there a restore option in the installer?02:24
* Arkenoi wonders if we run xorg anyways why c&p is not just everywhere? :-(02:25
xevioxcan maemo handle .ttf fonts?02:26
ali1234maemo's xterm can do chinese fonts02:26
ali1234i dunno how you would type them, but if you have a file with them in, and you cat it, you see them02:27
ali1234yes, X terminal on n90002:27
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ali1234i just tried it by logging in on ssh and doing "echo 公司首页 > /tmp/foo"02:28
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ali1234and then "cat /tmp/foo" in xterm, and it works02:28
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xeviox_ah k, sounds good :D02:28
xeviox_ali1234: is the n900 really that smooth as shown in some vids?02:28
xeviox_also running qt apps?02:29
Arkenoixeviox_, cut&paste02:29
ali1234got a link to a vid?02:29
Arkenoixeviox_, text selection is not available in most application02:29
Arkenoiapplications even02:29
xeviox_Arkenoi: no I just need text display of chinese and arabic texts (no input / no selection)02:30
xeviox_ah k sorry02:30
xeviox_that was answer to my question02:30
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xeviox_ali1234: qt shows some: (look for qt for maemo)02:30
xeviox_is it possible to reset a target in scratchbox to the sdk default (right after setup)?02:31 just repeatedly crashes firefox02:32
ali1234can't find any videos02:32
ali1234three times in a row, i better bug report this :/02:33
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SpeedEvilIs there a way to do xrandr -o left/right ?02:40
SpeedEvilI don't especially care - immediately - if everything works - I just want to be able to display stuff from an external program on a display that's round the other way02:41
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ali1234SpeedEvil: mirror?02:45
ali1234or you mean swap all the windows between the two screens?02:45
ali1234which afaik would need to be done by the window manager, not xrandr02:46
SpeedEvilali1234: no - I want to simply have the display rotated 90 degrees02:46
SpeedEviland then display other apps on the screen02:46
SpeedEvilI can start FF - for example - with no problem on my desktop and have it display on the phone02:47
ali1234hmm not sure i understand02:48
ali1234xrandr can rotate the display but i guess you know that02:48
SpeedEvilyes - it's not on the device.02:48
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SpeedEvilI need to get somesort of build platform setup.02:48
SpeedEvilBut I've been spending all my spare time trying to insulate my house.02:49
xeviox_ali1234:, doesn't crash on my firefox ..02:50
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xeviox_ali1234: does your phone run as smooth as shown in the vid?02:53
SpeedEvilyoutube works OKish on the device for me.02:54
SpeedEvilBut flash blows.02:54
xeviox_oh :(02:54
xeviox_but it works?02:54
SpeedEvilnormal youtube gets ~12fps perhaps.02:54
SpeedEvilMaybe a bit more.02:54
pupnikgood estimate SpeedEvil02:54
SpeedEvilUnder mplayer, it's more like 60 for the same file02:54
xeviox_oh :(02:54
ali1234xeviox_: sure, that looks reasonable02:54
xeviox_thats not really much ..02:54
pupnikthat is ADOBE's fault xeviox_02:54
ali1234remember none of those widgets actually *does* anything, it's just a demo02:55
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ali1234the video doesn't show youtube on n90002:55
xevioxali1234: yeah but just moving those pictures is a problem for my windwos mobile phone ..02:55
pupnikOnly time I led a flash project I made sure it ran fast on slow pcs.02:55
ali1234xeviox: windows mobile sucks, it has no graphics acceleration of any kind02:56
xevioxyes, that's the reason I want to switch to maemo ;)02:56
ali1234it's basically a throw back to vga times :)02:56
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ali1234just look at gapi... "here's a pointer to the framebuffer... enjoy"02:56
xevioxbut my phone has graphic accerleration, but htc doesn't ship it whit the needed driver s..02:56
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xevioxmy hope was that qt has a good performance on the phone, but I had no luck ..02:57
SpeedEvilSorry - above benchmarks ar emisleading.02:58
SpeedEvilThat was normal video. I was comparing a 'HD' video02:58
SpeedEvilwhich normally gets 3-4fps, and 60 under mplayer02:58
pupnikanybody know why zoutube doesn't search?02:59
pupnikmytube did it02:59
xevioxfor now I have to build the newest qt sources for compiling and then get my scratchbox target back to live ..03:00
xevioxbut that's a task for the next days03:00
xevioxwhish you all a merry christmas03:00
xevioxand a good time03:00
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n900evilanyone know if the picture-on-desk widget watches its pic file for changes?03:06
cehtehwhere are calendar items stored and how can i reset/delete all?03:09
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pupnikali1234: that emu is really creepy, it behaves different to anything i've seen03:13
pupniklike the sound+pulseaudio hardly affecting speed atm03:13
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ali1234pupnik: which emulator?03:30
ali1234oh. well, pulse does affect it a bit, but it basically needs 95% of the cpu just for the core emulation03:30
ali1234if not more03:31
ali1234that probably isn't right, must be a problem somewhere03:31
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ali1234i still suspect the cache thing03:31
pupnikis there a gles version of gpu?03:32
ali1234i don't think so03:32
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pupnikwell i'm not particularly upset if pandora has the edge on the bigger emus03:33
Macerdo people actually have pandoras?03:34
* Macer grins03:34
Maceri thought that was vaporware03:34
julianoliveri'm working with scratchbox here and am having ongoing trouble reaching internet machines through the host. the value for 'nameserver' is the same as the host. is there any thing else to look at?03:35
pupnikjulianoliver: in the vmware sdk?03:35
luke-jrMacer: mine arrived yesterday03:35
luke-jrMacer: doesn't quite work yet tho03:35
julianoliverpupnik: no.03:35
pupniki never got it working in the target03:35
julianoliverpupnik: it's been fine in the past, but seems flaky.03:36
pupnikyou can wget a site from the target?03:36
julianoliverright now ifconfig reports the same addr as the host.03:36
luke-jrMacer: I told em I didn't care if it shipped w/ working software :D03:36
pupnikluke-jr: you are kidding?03:36
julianoliverpupnik: no, not at this time. just doesn't resolve.03:36
luke-jrpupnik: ?03:36
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SpeedEvil2luke-jr: I did that with the neo197303:37
SpeedEvil2luke-jr: it's only mostly started to not suck after 3 years03:37
paul[]im on my new n900 and wifi died a few times today requiring a reboot to get it going again :( is this software or hardware problem? dmesg shows nothing suspicious looking03:37
luke-jrSpeedEvil2: yeah yeah, but did you sit down and write software for it from scratch? :p03:38
pupnikluke-jr: i didn't think assembly had started03:38
julianoliverpaul[]: odd. i haven't had this problem..03:38
SpeedEvil2luke-jr: no03:38
SpeedEvil2wifi is fine for me03:38
luke-jrSpeedEvil2: see, that's the key difference03:39
paul[]it's worrying me :-/03:39
luke-jrI don't care about shipped software because I'm not going to use it anyway03:39
SpeedEvil2luke-jr: whate'r eyou planning03:39
luke-jrpupnik: it doesn't have the final final case03:39
luke-jrSpeedEvil2: KDE 4.303:39
luke-jrSpeedEvil2: I care not for games or such nonsense03:40
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SpeedEvil2writing a clone from scratch03:40
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SpeedEvil2of kde03:41
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luke-jrwhy clone?03:41
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luke-jroh, I didn't mean not reusing existing components03:41
luke-jrbut for Neo1973, you'd have had to write stuff to do the phone crap03:41
luke-jrby 'from scratch', I mean basically ignoring the shipped code03:42
julianoliverok, found the problem. there are two resolv.conf's one in /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf and another /etc/resolv.conf in the looped mount.03:43
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felipecall right, msn-pecan 0.1.0-rc2 released with N900 support... anyone wants to try?
pupnikwhat does it do?03:46
felipecpupnik: allows you to use the MSN protocol aka windows live messenger03:48
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pupnikoh that will make some folks really happy!03:50
Smilyheh, i opened up my router control panel and my n900 had a wireless lease time of 13:37 :)03:52
felipecpupnik: there's already telepathy-butterfly, and telepathy-haze+libpurple, but they have some disadvantages03:53
felipecthey might have some trouble graduating to maemo-extras03:53
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julianoliveris there a way to aquire libgles (OpenGL ES) via apt on scratchbox? apt-cache returns it on my N900 but not on my ARMEL build guest.03:56
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julianoliverlcuk: i was just reading you here:
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Firebirdin other words, if you installed nokia binaries, yes04:16
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julianoliverFirebird: thanks..04:16
julianoliverFirebird: how would one go about adding the respository as listed "Fremantle nokia-applications explicit armel" to an existing scratchbox installation?04:23
* timeless looks for people running 51-1 or using English w/ their n900s04:24
julianoliverFirebird: i've attempted to add the ./ to my sources.list but i am forbidden.04:25
julianolivertigert: i'm running English on my N90004:25
julianoliver^^ timeless04:25
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* julianoliver rereads
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Firebirdjulianoliver, there's a step in the guide that tells you how to install nokia binaries04:35
Firebirdit involves agreeing to a license and getting a private repo link04:36
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Firebirdjulianoliver, look at step seven:
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jebbaxbindkeys, a forthcoming app to extras-devel, allows you to map a key (like the Britsh Pound Key / Euro) to trigger any script. Very handy  :)04:39
jebba(there may be other ways to do this, but I dont know what they are)04:39
julianoliverFirebird: yes, i've gone through that process. all good now. thanks04:39
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VDVsxtimeless, I match the first requirement(51.1 here), if you still need help :)04:59
timeless_mbpi do04:59
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* timeless_mbp sighs05:01
timeless_mbpremind me to shoot someone?05:02
timeless_mbpthe images app will show a message even if the window for images is not "open"05:02
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zerojaytimeless_mbp: I would be on 51.1... but... :)05:14
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zerojayKills me that each time I get to really sink my teeth into filing bugs, one thing or another ends up getting in the way.05:14
zerojayDead N900 now, not having the updated Summit firmware last time.05:15
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VDVsxzerojay, really dead ?05:17
zerojayVDVsx: Well, dead as in I can't charge via USB.05:17
julianoliveri'm reading contradictary reports about GLUT and Maemo 5. there seems to be a package vacuum of libgl-dev, freeglut-dev and mesag-dev (all replaced by a missing package).05:17
zerojayVDVsx: Same problem Texrat had.05:17
julianoliverwhat provides glu.h these days, if at all?05:17
VDVsxzerojay, broken connector ?05:17
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julianoliveris it necessary to replace glut calls entirely with GLES2 equivalents?05:18
woglindeargs apt-get install gdb dont works on n90005:19
zerojayVDVsx: Yeah, except that in my case there was no violent drops or handling. The connection just steadily got worse without me realizing it. The N900 sometimes seemed to not realize it was plugged in... I thought it was a software issue, but it got worse until the port just was loose inside the N900 casing.05:19
woglindeokay good nite05:19
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VDVsxzerojay, ouch05:20
pupnikzerojay: ripped usb connector of board05:20
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VDVsxif I shake mine, I can hear a sound from the connector, seems loose :(05:21
pupnikjulianoliver: most opengl apps will not run on opengles without heavy modification05:21
zerojaypupnik: Yeah... seems like the port holds onto the cable too tightly and it gets worse and worse over time.05:22
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zerojayVDVsx: Yeah, I heard that too about a week before mine failed.05:22
zerojayWhat really kills me about it is that I purposely was REALLY careful about inserting and removing the cable for this exact reason.05:22
pupniksame here VDVsx - but i tripped over the cable and sent device flying05:23
zerojayAnd I still have no response from Nokia since I e-mailed them about it during Barcelona.05:23
julianoliverpupnik: does one need to reimplement glut (and therefore glu first..)?05:23
julianoliverreimplementing glut itself wouldn't be too hard, but glu? eww..05:23
timeless_mbpzerojay: this is through DDP?05:23
VDVsxzerojay, email them again after Jan 8 :D05:23
pupnikjulianoliver: a typical opengl1.2 application needs to be rewritten05:23
julianoliverpupnik: thanks for the clarification.05:24
pupniki am just summarizing the articles i've read on it.  for accuracy, go elsewhere :)05:25
julianoliverwill do ;)05:25
* timeless_mbp frowns05:25
timeless_mbpcan someone enable extras-testing and go to games and select battlegeweled for me?05:26
timeless_mbptap details05:26
timeless_mbphow many tabs do you get?05:26
pupniki have extras-devel so i might get the wrong version?05:26
zerojaytimeless_mbp: No, this was a Fremantle Stars device, pre-Summit giveaway.05:26
zerojayVDVsx: Getting that "you're gonna help us test 51.1!" e-mail today felt like salt in the wound. Heh.05:27
VDVsxzerojay, did you replied to that email ? "I can't bla bla05:29
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zerojayVDVsx: Yeah, I replied to give them a reminder that I haven't heard back from them about this situation at all yet.05:29
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pupnikwhoah i missed this modified dpkg-buildpackage to replace maemo-optify...
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pwnguinyou'd think the clock alarms would just be a calendar thing06:10
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RXrenesis8GAN900 needs to get his mind right06:17
GAN900Mah proxy is dead06:17
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pwnguinis calendar-backend LGPL?06:50
pwnguin suggests it's "proprietary"06:50
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villagerI haven't found any sources for it at least07:01
villagerpretty sure it's proprietary07:02
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villagerand I'm currently writing a syncevolution backend for it07:05
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acidjazzis there a maemo field test app yet07:14
pupnikwhat's that07:15
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acidjazzshows like all the network gsm and umts data07:16
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pupnikafaik a lot of that data is not available to the cpu07:17
acidjazznokia has like a field test app for symbian07:18
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acidjazzhad ot for a while07:18
pupnikcool. anyway the cell radio has a pretty limited interface07:19
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pupnikbut i just found this:
pupnikTHANK YOU Tuomo Tanskanen!!!07:20
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RST38hpupnik: what does it do? (before I install it and brick myself)07:21
pupniki test07:21
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pupnikupdating - and finishing breakfast - brb07:22
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pupnikit installs a .xml file into /etc/systemui/cell-modem-ui.xml07:32
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pupniki don't see where to invoke it07:33
pupnikoh reboot needed07:35
pupniki found the freakin 'dialin' bug07:35
pupnikthe 'phone app' is set to call forwarding, and the number is not mine07:35
pupnikit was my number with '33' inserted after the first 4 digits!07:36
Maceryeah. i want to sex0r the female avatar07:40
RST38hwhat is holding you?07:42
Macerwell the fact taht she is a fictional alien creature?07:43
RST38hdo it fictionally then!07:43
Macerthe subs are in like russian or something07:44
Macerso i don't get to read the savage talk07:44
RST38hah, a pirate!07:45
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Vrathaunf!  got CDT setup on eclipse.  i'm going to have to start using that at work to make linux C/C++ development a lot easier than using emacs all day07:48
pwnguini donno, its about the same07:50
Vrathano, eclipse makes it so much easier07:50
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* RST38h out07:52
Vrathaoh, sweet, CyZooNiC!07:53
Vrathagotta love the N900's hackability07:53
CyZooNiCtoo bad injection doesnt work07:53
pwnguinsoemone announced they were moving a pentesting tool to n90007:53
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Vrathaa pentesting tool?07:54
CyZooNiCmetasploit runs ueber slow07:54
Vrathahmm, i don't see aircrack in my Extras repo07:56
Macerneed to download subs for this crap :)07:56
CyZooNiCit's in extras-testing07:57
CyZooNiCor extras-devel can't remeber07:58
Vrathai have extras-testing07:58
Vrathamust be devel07:58
Vrathawill check there07:58
CyZooNiCits not optified07:58
CyZooNiCbut it's also not very large07:58
acidjazzis there a maemo field test app yet07:58
acidjazzshows like all the network gsm and umts data07:59
CyZooNiCI havent seen anything like that yet07:59
VrathaCyZooNiC: yup, it was in extras-devel08:00
Macerok. found them :)08:03
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mfinkleanybody know of a way to get the application name if you have the dbus service name?08:12
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aspiditesgood mornign08:14
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pwnguinhmm. think it's possible to write a sharing plugin to gallery2?08:27
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lucentwonder if Nokia would release Ovi Store for N900 before year end08:51
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sejolucent: that would surprise me09:15
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wazd_n800mornin' everyone09:42
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wazd_n800and hello again :)10:08
Stskeepsit's a wazd10:09
wazd_n800Stskeeps, wazzap shawty :D10:10
Stskeepsreading through my mail and preparing myself mentally for a polish xmas where i won't understand what people are saying10:11
wazd_n800Stskeeps, lulz :D10:11
wazd_n800Stskeeps, just nod :D10:11
Stskeepsat least i will have my n900 to keep me entertained10:11
wazd_n800Stskeeps, yyou have your wife! Nerd! :D10:13
luke-jrwazd_n800: in the meantime, Stskeeps is telling me to hack over Xmas instead of spend it w/ family... :p10:14
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wazd_n800I guess non-russian christmas is tomorrow?10:14
wazd_n800or today?10:15
Stskeepswell, for .dk10:15
Stskeepsand poland10:15
luke-jrtoday is Christmas Eve10:15
wazd_n800ok, great, I have some time)10:15
wazd_n800I'm oficially ofically free now btw)10:16
wazd_n800got papers)10:16
Stskeepspassport? woo :)10:16
luke-jrwhat's with the )s?10:16
Stskeepsluke-jr: russian smilies10:17
wazd_n800My life became less miserable :)10:17
Stskeepsthey don't have eyes, you know, after ze radiation10:17
Stskeepswazd_n800: so when are you coming to warsaw? ;p10:17
Maceravatar was good10:17
wazd_n800Stskeeps, not passport yet, but army papers10:17
Macerat least better than most movies that have came out in the last 10 years10:17
wazd_n800Macer, imax?10:17
Stskeepswazd_n800: thought you got those already, so you can first apply for passport now?10:18
Macernaw. i just watched the bootleg :)10:18
wazd_n800Macer, I'm heading to the imax now)10:18
Maceryou can'tget a passport while you're enlisted?10:18
Macerwhere do you live? communist russia?10:18
StskeepsMacer: close enough, modern russia10:18
wazd_n800Macer, spend some cash and see it in 3d10:18
Macerwazd_n800: i might10:19
Macerit was worth watching again10:19
luke-jrmodern Russia is still communist, no?10:19
Macerluke-jr: it's not?!10:19
Maceroh wait. that's right. they changed over to capitalist socialism like the US :)10:19
Maceri remember hearing something about that in the 90s10:20
Macerwazd_n800: just am confused. when i was in the USMC i could still get a passport so it can't be the US you are talking about10:20
Maceraltough i could understand the freedom part :) it was a pretty long 4 years... had the time of my life though when i wasn't in iraq10:21
StskeepsMacer: there's forced conscription in .ru10:22
Macerwow. he's really in russia? i was just joking :)10:22
Macerthe US should have that10:22
Stskeepsit's like that in .dk too but i got discarded, which was good :P10:23
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Maceryou got discarded?10:23
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StskeepsMacer: it's a good thing, or i would have to be stuck in army for 6-9 months :)10:24
Stskeepsand i could start my education immediately afterwards10:24
Macer6-9 MONTHS?!10:24
Macerthat's it?!10:24
Stskeepsfor .dk10:24
Macernot planning to actually wage war huh? :)10:25
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* luke-jr would probably help the other side.10:25
Macerdk saved all its jews during the holocaust10:25
Maceryou have to give them that much10:25
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Stskeepsthe future is in information wars instead10:25
MacerStskeeps: 6-9 months isn't worth it10:25
StskeepsMacer: we also pretty much bent over when the germans invaded10:25
MacerStskeeps: i can tell10:26
Macerwith your 6-9 months of military service hehe10:26
luke-jrMacer: why only their jews?10:26
Macerluke-jr: because dk citizens would have been allowed to live if they weren't jewish10:26
Macerlots of blue eyed blonde haired dkians10:26
Macerjust like the spanish :)10:27
luke-jrMacer: sounds unlikely that the rest of the dk were all spared10:27
StskeepsMacer: yeah, tell that to my grand-grandfather who went to concentration camp, he wasn't blonde :P10:27
Stskeepsi think there's more blondes in sweden, tbh10:27
luke-jrMacer: and no Christians in dk at the time? I kinda doubt that.10:27
Macerno christians?10:27
Macerwtf are you talking about?10:28
wazd_n800omg, i've made it10:28
Macerput the bottle down and read one word at a time10:28
luke-jrMacer: Christians were at risk for their lives just as much10:28
wazd_n800bought out booked tickets in last second10:28
Macerluke-jr: i believe ti depended on how pure the germans considered the race of the occupied country10:28
wazd_n800*right* before canceling10:28
Macerthe germans were actually pretty civil to the french (with the exception of the french jews)10:29
Macerthey HATED russians :)10:29
luke-jrMacer: Germans weren't persecuting solely on race10:29
Macerthey believed russians to be a subclass of human10:29
Macerluke-jr: for the most part they did10:29
Macerstatistically with the exception of deaths during battle.. the germans would eliminate what they considered lesser races as well as handicapped10:30
wazd_n800oh, WWII ramblings)10:30
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lardmanmorning all10:31
lardmanI wonder what it is that makes my N900 always connect now?10:31
lardmanIt certainly didn't do that in the past10:31
Macerisn't it supposed to always connect10:31
lardmanwell yeah, but I'm just strange and I only want it to connect when I ask it to10:32
lardmanor at least to connect then disconnect10:32
Macerto what?10:32
Macerluke-jr: watch the gray zone10:33
lardmanwell try to connect every 30min say, then disconnect when idle10:33
Macerhowever it is spelled :)10:33
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lardmanwith an 'e' is English10:34
Macerand the a?10:34
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Macerlike favor and favour?10:34
Macercolor and colour10:34
lardmanAluminium is probably better10:34
lardmanAluminum as the Americans say10:35
Maceri honestly didn't know that10:35
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wazd_n801Russia looks just like in Red Alert 310:36
Stskeepsi miss playing RA2 :/10:37
wazd_n801Crazy generals, sexy girls, ridiculous weaponery :D10:37
wazd_n801no airborn bears but we're working on that :D10:38
lardmanTupolev Tu-95 or growling ones?10:38
wazd_n801Tu are cariers and civil aircrafts10:39
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wazd_n801Sus and Migs :)10:39
lardmanwell certainly a carrier of something ;) its NATO reporting name was "bear":
wazd_n801We now  have "Superjet" - 2002 year grade plane10:41
wazd_n801Arkenoi, heya10:41
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lbtX-Fade: can I have deletion rights in the wiki please? or is it too tied to other things?10:45
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user_Hello !10:59
user_ < someone understand what is the problem ?11:00
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* lardman twiddles thumbs waiting for that page to load11:06
* lbt too11:06
lardmanprobably a missing dep in the control file though, I'll guess without actually seeing the log11:07
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user_lardman ... seems to be maemo-optify11:08
lardmanhmm, looks like dpkg-checkbuilddeps fails silently to me11:08
user_so they did it automatically without warning developpers11:08
lardmanhere's the file somewhere quicker:
user_my package is already optified so i didn't want this things11:09
lardmanis that a dep in the control file?11:10
lardmanno, seems not11:10
user_it s seems to be added automatically11:11
lardmandoes it build on your machine?11:11
user_of course11:11
lardmanjust checking ;)11:12
user_but everytime my machine accept problems without errors11:12
user_and autobuilder fails on a minor warning :)11:13
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lardmanI wonder why dh_install is commented out11:14
sejosomeone able to install qt packages?11:15
kkitoqt packages on freemantle?11:15
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user_lardman ? because i commented it11:17
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user_it s a py2deb packages ... it has always works ... but didn't now11:18
user_without a very small modification11:18
user_so doesn't seems to be that11:18
user_does there is a way to force remove maemo-optify ?11:19
lardmanhmm, with that commented it won't install anything11:20
lardmanso it's probably working from its point of view as you've not asked it to do anything else11:20
lardmanalso, that package doesn't appear to be optified11:21
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lardmanand tbh I've no clue why on Earth would anyone want it to be either, it's not very large11:21
user_lardman it is as the python_2.5/site-packages is11:22
lardmanfair enough11:22
lardmanhow did you perform optification on it then?11:23
user_it s done by the pymaemo-optify11:23
lardmanhmm, must have missed that, hang on11:23
user_which is a depends of python packages11:23
Bluewindwhere is the blue nokia logo that's displayed when booting?11:24
Bluewind/usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/startup_nokia_logo.png seems to be something else11:24
lardmanuser_: fair enough, something automatic then and not in the uploaded files?11:24
lardmanuser_: e.g. the debian/dirs file still contains the path to usr/11:25
lardmanuser_: anyway I don't know I'm afraid, but good luck! :)11:25
JaffaMorning, all11:27
lardmanhi Jaffa11:27
user_lardman ... hum normal ... symlinks11:27
user_i don't understand why you re afraid11:28
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lardmanuser_: not afraid, just seems a bit pointless to me to have to optify everything11:28
lardmanin that case just make the root fs bigger, etc.11:28
user_yep optify is the worst idea on this n90011:29
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dmj726lardman: how do you compile mbarcode?11:32
user_grrr it s a real pain to found something oln maemo.org11:32
lardmandmj726: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot11:33
lardmandmj726: make sure you have the Makefile.nxxx symlinked to Makefile11:33
lardmanI did try to have a generic Makefile that works out which device it is, but didn't want to waste too much time on it11:33
RST38hmoo all11:34
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Jaffauser_: Unfortunately, due to Nokia not realising it was going to be a problem until too late; optification (and now/soon, auto-optification by the autobuilder). Some propose the best option is to have swap on the NAND and the rootfs on the eMMC11:41
user_Jaffa: should be the better option i think :)11:43
user_oups my nick11:43
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dmj726depends on if performance degrades too much in doing that.11:43
Jaffauser_: Trouble is it's bigger change than the time available allowed (changes in tooling, fabrication, upgrades etc.)11:43
Jaffa...and the concern about eMMC being slower (as dmj726 says)11:43
Khertanyep a bit slower but noy that much11:44
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JaffaKhertan: The only concrete figure I've heard mentioned is 25%. But I've not seen any raw data, or actual reproducible benchmarks.11:45
dmj726linux runs very slowly if the media it's installed on is slow.11:45
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dmj726I learned this when I installed ubuntu 9.04 on a flash drive.  It was unpleasant.11:45
Khertananyway it s a bit too late now11:45
Khertanbut auto optify isn t a good idea11:46
Khertanthere is always a test pass before packages land to extras11:46
Khertanso it s useless11:47
JaffaKhertan: It's not useless, if optification isn't a long term strategy; and people aren't doing it anyway.11:48
Khertanif people don t do it applications will not be available to extras11:49
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Khertanat least broken things isn t better i think11:49
lardmanJaffa: optification is quite a long way down the todo list for apps in extras-devel11:50
lardmanand yet I receive emails asking me to optify this/that/the other, which makes me wonder why I bother11:51
Khertanhum add pymameo-optify still not help contrary to what they said11:51
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Stskeepsoptification should be a post-build step :P11:52
Khertanshould be a manual on demand step11:52
Jaffalardman: Indeed, which is why the autobuilder does it11:52
Stskeepsthey finally got it changed?11:52
JaffaKhertan: Which will pymaemo-optify not help?11:52
infobotJaffa meant: Khertan: Why will pymaemo-optify not help?11:53
lardmanJaffa: in which case all's well and dandy11:53
Khertanaccording to :
lardmanexcept for users demanding my time to do something for no apparent reason ;)11:53
JaffaHAM said I was installing 320MB of apps on the restore I did last night :)11:53
lardmans/apparent/immediately useful11:53
lardmanyeah, said I was installing 200MB11:53
Khertanif package depends on pymameo-optify auto builder should try to broke it11:54
Khertanif package depends on pymameo-optify auto builder should try to not broke it11:54
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JaffaKhertan: Correct. I don't know if that change to maemo-optify --auto has been made and rolled out. But that's why the system is under development :-p11:55
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JaffaKhertan: maemo-developers/m-vo/edb.bartosh/bugzilla11:56
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KhertanBug #730912:05
povbotBug Auto Builder // Maemo Optify // Unable it with pymaemo-optify depends12:05
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JaffaKhertan: Thanks; I've linked up the mailing list thread and changed the summary (hope you don't mind)12:09
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dmj726lardman: I got it to build12:15
dmj726how do I install it on the device?12:15
DocScrutinizer51mediaplayer srt subtitles anybody got a working setup?12:18
dmj726got it12:23
sejokkito yes on extras-devel12:24
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Stskeepsheya tomasz12:29
TomaszDcan anyone tell me what all this means? (text file, small)12:29
Stskeepsenjoying xmas? :P12:29
TomaszDI'm not enjoying a severe bug
povbotBug 7277: WLAN connection deauth, auth cycle very often, stalling all Internet activity.12:29
Stskeepstry disable power management12:29
TomaszDok, but didn't have to do that earlier... one moment12:30
Stskeepsto pin it down12:30
TomaszDdone, testing...12:30
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TomaszDgot through apt-get update first time, good sign12:32
TomaszDrunning stream...12:32
TomaszDno issues again12:33
TomaszDStskeeps: thanks for the workaround, will report back12:33
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Stskeepsplease look into if it's a DNS issue12:34
Stskeepsmy asus wl-500gp corrupts my DNS packages12:34
TomaszDStskeeps: there you go
TomaszDrunning the most recent build atm12:35
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Stskeepsmm, might be worth it12:35
TomaszDStskeeps: fantastic firmware, additional modules12:35
Stskeepsyou should note you run a custom firmware fwiw12:35
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TomaszDStskeeps: this custom firmware does not affect any other device here, and there is quite a few of them12:35
TomaszDI would know first hand if anything was wrong12:36
StskeepsTomaszD: well, laptops aren't usually touched by PSM issues12:36
Stskeepsn8x0s however..12:36
DocScrutinizer51hmm. So any pointer for Zyxel P660? reboot after max 10min of WPA212:36
dnearyI can't find the source code for maemopad online anywhere - anyone know where they are?12:36
DocScrutinizer51alas no new FW for that shitty router12:37
dnearyI'm looking for the source code - either svn or git or whatever12:37
Stskeepsdneary: don't think maemopad is developed openly12:37
Stskeepsthe repository one is the closest you get to it12:37
dnearyStskeeps, See for reasons12:37
povbotBug 7280: example source code not available in "Writing a new maemo application"12:37
dnearyStskeeps, It is - it's in free, and source code from it is included as code samples in developer docs12:38
dnearyIt's just the URL supplied requires authorisation12:38
Stskeepsprod the sdk guys about it12:38
dnearyAnd AFAIK, we're moving away from svn12:38
TomaszDStskeeps: how can I check DNS corruption?12:38
TomaszDStskeeps: in layman's terms plz ;)12:39
dnearyStskeeps, Any idea who is the best person?12:39
Stskeepsdneary: not garage SVN, just stage SVN12:39
Stskeepsdneary: see who's admin for 'sdktesting' project on garage12:39
dnearyTomaszD, You're looking for what website? we can compare IP addresses12:39
StskeepsTomaszD: 'host' did it for me12:39
dnearyStskeeps, URL? I'm not sure how to do that12:39
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TomaszDStskeeps: on a Win7 machine? :)12:41
TomaszDdneary: not looking for a specific website, no12:41
Stskeepsdneary: ask X-Fade i guess, it is marked as a nokia project (
Stskeepsso i can't see either12:42
StskeepsTomaszD: you can see it on the device it's happening on12:42
X-FadeStskeeps: Marcell and Soumya.12:42
rdorschIs there a OSM2GO on freemantle user online?12:42
rdorschI have issues with creating a new project when selecting the area from a map12:42
dnearyStskeeps, Me too - on the outside looking in12:43
lardman|homedmj726: did you get that response of mine? dpkg -i mbarcode_blah.deb?12:44
lardman|homeam off now, have a merry christmas all, see you later12:44
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dmj726yeah i figued it out12:45
dmj726merry christmas lardman12:45
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hiatusDoes maemo use gnu utilities?12:58
Jaffahiatus: Mostly Busybox12:58
infobotJaffa meant: hiatus: Mostly BusyBox12:59
hiatusHmm, so you can't use gstreamer and such with it13:00
Stskeepssure you can13:01
Stskeepsgstreamer is part of the os13:01
Stskeepsit just doesn't have coreutils and other typical stuff, but busybox covers a lot of it13:02
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Jaffahiatus: Depends what level you want to work at. sh is BusyBox's ash; but bash is installable. gconftool-2 doesn't have a busybox version ;)13:04
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* Arkenoi wonders why there is no bash and generic gnu utils as there is plenty of space for it anyways13:06
StskeepsArkenoi: one good reason is gplv3..13:08
Stskeepswell, attitude13:08
X-FadeArkenoi: It is not only space, it is also RAM usage.13:10
X-FadeAnd startup time etc etc.13:10
X-FadeA lot of things need to be taken into account there.13:10
StskeepsX-Fade: we kinda debunked that a bit :P the real reason is coreutils and such being gplv313:11
Stskeepsand busybox is gplv213:11
Stskeepsand legacy of course13:12
X-FadeStskeeps: Well, I think it is more being scared to change.13:12
X-FadeIt works, why change ;)13:12
Stskeepsthat too13:12
hiatusHmm, so would the n900 be able to support video more like a legitiment distro does?13:13
Stskeepshiatus: we have gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad like other people13:13
X-FadeChanging to bash is quite disruptive probably.13:13
Stskeepsit'd be dash instead13:13
X-FadeStskeeps: Although v3 probably gives some lawyers the creeps.13:13
Stskeepshiatus: so it's the full gstreamer framework13:13
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah.. at summit they stated nokia'll stay with gplv2 as policy for now13:14
X-Fadehiatus: gstreamer is more powerfull than on my desktop.13:14
hiatusThat's pretty neat13:14
X-Fadehiatus: as we have hardware acceleration for some formats too ;)13:14
X-FadeStskeeps: Well, not only nokia. It seems most large companies working with linux do.13:14
Stskeepsi don't blame them13:15
hiatusEben moglen said no one loved gpl v2 as much as they did until he finished gpl v313:15
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hiatusLawyers will only calm down about v3 until rms and moglen write gpl v413:16
X-FadeStskeeps: Dash is probably a better candidate.13:17
X-Fadehiatus: I think that v3 is a step to far for most companies ;)13:18
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hiatusIts not all that restrictive. Companies just havnt realized drm isn't actually useful yet13:21
Stskeepsalso nokia wants to do non-evil drm13:22
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hiatusAt least not to prevent piracy. It makes piracy look a lot more attractive13:22
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hiatusGpl v3 doesn't prevent non-drm13:23
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X-Fadedrm has it's place, as long as the terms are clear to the user.13:24
X-FadeDon't tell people they own music for ever and then close the license server after a year.13:24
X-FadeThat is just evil.13:24
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, ran into that when trying to move from a windows reinstall to the other.. the moving page was 40413:25
X-FadeIf I buy a track for a few cents and I know it will play only x amount of time, I'm fine with that.13:25
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StskeepsX-Fade: money out of the window13:25
Stskeeps(i did actually like to buy as it was tracks normally difficult to get)13:25
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, that is one of the problems with drm. Do you trust the licensing party to stay in business ;)13:26
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X-FadeThe comes with music service for instance is listen to as much music as you want, for a certain amount of money. I don't mind the drm there.13:27
X-FadeIt is just like listening to a stream.13:27
X-FadeBut when I buy a song for >= 1 eur, I better really own it ;)13:28
hiatusIts really more bother then what its worth. The people paying for the movie are doing it to avoid the bother of pirating. I buy some of my music because I don't care screwing around with usenet and torrents.13:28
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind a EU hulu.com13:28
* lbt is mailing people who do support via bugzilla <grin>13:29
hiatusDrm makes me stealing it more worth my while because it adds difficulty in my using the product I paid for13:29
* lbt is also looking for Ove to offer him a large glass of something good13:29
Stskeepshiatus: recently i figured out how much the warnings in beginnings of DVDs are troubling.. it was on a children's DVD and the video scared the living hell out of the child13:29
lbtfor the syncevolution porting work :)13:29
Stskeepsand it was impossible to skip it13:29
X-Fadehiatus: If drm makes your life difficult, then it is used wrong. And then you should have every right to kill it ;)13:29
Veggendrm does make it difficult.13:30
X-FadeVeggen: As said, for streaming protection, I don't care.13:30
Veggen...and it makes the pirated products more worth/better than the real product.13:30
hiatusWell, I don't use it.13:30
VeggenX-Fade: agreed. streaming is "a performance" you pay for.13:31
X-FadeVeggen: As long as it is not something that is meant to be permanent.13:31
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lbtMythTV is good for this kind of thing (DVD watching)13:31
Veggenbut DRM on iTunes/music stores/DVDs etc. are wrong.13:31
X-FadeVeggen: Same for subscriptions or x times play stuff.13:31
X-FadeVeggen: yes, that drm is a pain.13:31
hiatusYou can pirate streams as well. Its not hard13:32
X-Fadehiatus: Sure, but I wouldn't care.13:32
Veggenhiatus: oh, we know :)13:32
Veggenbut well. I'm not a big copyright-infringer anyway. (I refuse to call it thief or pirate, because it has nothing to do with theft or piracy at all)13:33
* lbt looks at his 4Tb of time-shifted content on his PVR... some of it from 2005/6 iirc....13:33
hiatusWell, when they catch on the drm doesn't really prevent anything. I think interest in using it will die13:34
lbtit's dying in music but coming up in film13:35
Veggenlbt: mmm, it'll die there too. in  couple of years.13:35
DocScrutinizer51hdtv sat private stations13:35
lbtinteresting that the N900+1 is likely to be the kind of device that makes it technically viable...13:35
DocScrutinizer51real brainfuck13:36
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lbtaccording to new scientist (and personal experience) HD isn't a big deal in enjoying content13:36
lbtimage size is13:36
lbtmeans the N900 sucks unless I play '9' via my projector ;)13:37
lbtbut seriously though13:37
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lbtI play SD content on a projected screen and it is brilliant...13:38
* DocScrutinizer51 plugs tv-cable to N90013:38
lbteven at ~3m diagonal13:38
lbtDocScrutinizer51: it's worth it :)    BounceEvolution on a projector makes you ill though13:38
bleaderI didn't try to play around with settings, but colors were really fucked up when I tried the cable13:39
X-Fadelbt: Well, I'm spoiled and think that SD content sucks.13:39
lbtX-Fade: it does compared side-by-side with HD13:40
lbtbut projected SD vs smallscreen HD .....13:40
X-Fadelbt: It does on a HD tv too ;)13:40
lbtby smallscreen I mean a 40" plasma13:40
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X-Fadelbt: Everything that gets drawn on more pixels than the source image is, is lame ;)13:41
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DocScrutinizer51hmm just this morning watched "La Jetee" on 900 and found the volume slyder of mediaplayer was delayed operation taking effect only when I press pause13:41
lbtI agree that it looks technically worse...13:41
lbtbut the point is that the research showed interesting effects13:41
lbtafter the initial 'wow'13:41
lbtthe actual post-watching measurement of "how much did you enjoy"13:42
lbtwas different...13:42
lbtand HD/SD was not as big a factor as you'd think13:42
lbtI am (was) a hi-fi nut ....13:42
lbtso I know where you are coming from :)13:42
* Arkenoi thinks La Jetee is more suitable for a projector and a dark room, not a movie to watch on the go13:43
DocScrutinizer51lbt: same here :-)13:43
X-FadeWell, SD is bad, but SD on low bandwidth digital streams with mpeg artifacts is even worse ;)13:43
lbtoh, yeah, that sucks13:44
DocScrutinizer51Arkenoi: it was just a test13:44
lbtand can really get on your nerves when watching13:44
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DocScrutinizer51Arkenoi: I failed with subtitles as well. So it wasn't that much fun anyway13:44
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lbtbut that's not SD... that's like crappy mp3s at 64k13:44
lbtvs mp3 at 32013:45
lbt(although in the car with the roof down it's no big deal!!)13:45
Arkenoibtw anyone tried pocket projectors? like 3m's 120? They have resolution no better than 640x480, does it scale ok?13:45
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Arkenoii am going to take one for a test13:45
X-FadeArkenoi: I think those are really in the 'gadget' state still.13:46
pekujamerry christmas everybody13:46
X-FadeArkenoi: The idea is cool, but well..13:46
lbtwow.... what TZ are you in pekuja ?13:46
Stskeepslbt: .dk has xmas today too :P13:46
pekujalbt: GMT+213:46
DocScrutinizer51Arkenoi: on you should find a good test of miniprojectors13:47
lbtah.... the UK is moving xmas to the 26th so people can get their cars home :D13:47
lbtthey are all stuck in ditches today13:47
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pekujaI just noticed that the GPS on my N900 seems to be consistently locating me to the north and a bit east to where I am13:47
pekujais there a way to calibrate it or something?13:48
DocScrutinizer51(xmas) like defcon2 for me13:48
lbtgo outside and move north and a bit east13:48
ifreqpekuja: sure its GPS not triangular calculation of the GMS towers?13:48
ifreqerr cell-towers13:49
ifreqor what are they called13:49
hiatusEh, I actually got the droid. Gps is nice on it13:49
DocScrutinizer51pekuja: you can't calibrate GPS13:49
pekujaifreq: I'm not sure13:50
pekujaifreq: could be gsm13:50
Stskeepsyou can put hello kitty theme on your n900 and it will attract gps signals better13:50
pekujaDocScrutinizer51: ok. too bad13:50
DocScrutinizer51ifreq: they are valled Base Transmitter Stations13:50
ifreqDocScrutinizer51: yeah just knew the fin words for it :P13:50
ifreqnot the eng tech terms13:50
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DocScrutinizer51ifreq: I don't thinl maemo location service does triangulation. It's impossible without support from carrier13:52
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lbtit seems to have a lookup for coords of base stations13:52
ifreqi think it try to reach 2-3 nearest bases and calculates from those13:53
lbtI wonder if it does anything triangular using those?13:53
ifreqwell atleat iphone doess13:53
DocScrutinizer51lbt: might help for a very rough first guess of your location.13:53
ifreqi realy doubht the tech really differs13:53
lbtyeah - that was part of the whole AGPS bugthread iirc13:53
DocScrutinizer51lbt: but triangulation is technically impossible13:53
ifreqthats why the location may not be exact as mentioened earlier13:53
lbtDocScrutinizer51: does the device not know about multiple local transmitters?13:54
DocScrutinizer51it does. but it doesnt know distance to those. Also doesnt know even if they are next ones13:55
lbtand can it not tell the signal strenth of each?13:55
lbtand knowing their gps co-ords it could make assumptions13:55
DocScrutinizer51doesn't help13:55
lbt(very coarse)13:55
DocScrutinizer51yeah verrry coarse13:55
ifreqyou sure it do not know the distance to one base station?13:56
lbtit can't know that13:56
ifreqhmm interesting13:56
DocScrutinizer51it knows Time Advance to the one BTS its associated to13:56
lbtbut it could use inter-tower location to assume it is in the centre of the triangle13:56
DocScrutinizer51TA is in steps of 550m iirc13:56
lbtand then adjust the legs based on strength13:57
lbtso it could use TA to get one distance?13:57
DocScrutinizer51lbt: signal strength is mere random basically13:57
DocScrutinizer51lbt: yep. you know distance to 'your' BTS13:57
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lbtbut it should locate you either between towers13:58
* Stskeeps dumps a book about location based services etc in lbt's lap13:58
ifreqlsb ah yeah13:58
ifreqi always assumed it gets 2-3 distance from single bts and calculates average between all 2-313:59
lbtgiven what DocScrutinizer51 said and the ability to switch BTS you should be able to. Depends on HW and how long that kind of thing takes14:00
lbtOTOH there's a GPS builtin14:00
DocScrutinizer51lbt: I've done that ;-D14:00
hiatusBetter start working, gas station is pretty busy for christmas eve14:00
lbtDocScrutinizer51: see... this is why the stack needs opening up a bit14:01
DocScrutinizer51with a Nokia 6210 though14:01
lbtI wonder if ofono will go that deep?14:01
DocScrutinizer51using net monitor service mode14:01
DocScrutinizer51lbt: surely not14:01
lbtyeah, I doubt it too14:02
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lbtand geometry and more datapoints will increase the accuracy of possible intersects14:04
lbtand I guess TA is not influenced by geography much (other than maybe reflection)14:05
lbtanyhow.... I really must get back to ove's syncevolution stuff :D14:05
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* ShadowJK turns on JIT in microb14:07
redis there any other im-app that integrates into contacts like butterfly (for msn)?14:07
redpidgin ws quite badly done14:07
ShadowJKi dont think so14:09
DocScrutinizer%6/rrt errrr sorry14:10
RST38hjit is not on by default?14:12
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ShadowJKI guess it's questionable whether you can go that deep at all anymore :)14:13
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ArkenoiIs there a script to find already installed poorly optified packages? I am trying to figure out what is eating / space..14:19
RST38hArkenoi: du -R /usr/share | sort -rn ?14:20
KhertanArkemoi look on my website : http://khertan.net14:21
sp3000ShadowJK: iirc it wasn't quite reliable yet in that version14:21
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sp3000ShadowJK: that is, jit in that version may give you some crashes and hangs doing some things on e.g. flickr :)14:28
ShadowJKsp3000: in my case it just made slow script warning pop up on the page I was getting tired waiting for :)14:29
Arkenoiis it safe to cp -Rp /usr/share /home/user/MyDocs;  ln -sf /home/user/MyDocs/share /usr/share ?14:29
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ShadowJK(and after stopping the script it worked fine)14:29
ShadowJKArkenoi: afaiui no14:29
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ShadowJKwell, maybe share was safe14:30
ShadowJKbetter have backups anyway14:30
ArkenoiShadowJK, what may break this way?14:30
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ShadowJKwell test it and you'll find out14:31
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ShadowJKPersonally I think I'd modify init scripts to mount /home earlier, to avoid problems14:32
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ShadowJKbut I'm too lazy so in reality im going to do nothing ;)14:32
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* Jaffa seems to be getting into an argument with Ed on -developers14:35
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ArkenoiShadowJK, there is a danger modified scripts will be overwritten with software update, isn't it?14:36
RST38hDevelopers developers developer!14:36
* RST38h throws a chair14:36
* zerojay gets hit14:36
Stskeepszerojay: happy holidays14:36
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zerojayStskeeps: Same to you.14:37
zerojayIt'll be much happier when I'm finally done with this terrible flu.14:38
* Stskeeps will be spending it with parents in law in a language he doesn't understand14:38
Stskeepsi'm not sure if i would enjoy flu more14:38
RST38hPoor Stskeeps14:39
RST38hLearn Polish already.14:39
Stskeepsand more specifically, without good danish xmas food14:39
zerojayI've been off work for almost a week now... since last Friday. Would be nice to get some sleep sometime soon too.14:40
zerojayStskeeps: What language do they speak?14:40
RST38hWell, Poles have got good food, so I doubt it is a problem14:40
Stskeepszerojay: polish and a bit of english14:40
Stskeepsand as with any place, if there's a majority of non-english speaking people, non-english will be used ;)14:40
StskeepsRST38h: well, it could be worse. but i will be missing pork roast.14:41
RST38hStskeeps: Just ask 'em for it =)14:41
StskeepsRST38h: did i mention my mother in law is a bit of a healthy agenda person? :)14:41
* RST38h looks around, searching for people who would test/vote for ColEm14:42
threshi'll spend the NY with jews14:42
RST38hStskeeps: Good, you will be destroying their supply of pork so that they do not feel tempted to get fat on it!14:42
threshand ~25 russians :/14:42
* RST38h will be spending the NY with 15mil russians.14:43
RST38hand some jews =)14:43
threshi'll leave Moscow at 30 dec :)14:43
RST38hthresh: Direct flight I hope?14:43
threshthis time, yes14:43
threshyeah, i had some problems flying out of Paris this Sunday14:44
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* RST38h wonders if he should once again approach XFade about deleting all votes from Google Crawler14:44
RST38hheya VDVsx14:44
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RST38hthresh: Well, at least it is not being stuck in Atlanta for a night14:45
RST38hIn what looked like a ghetto, too14:45
VDVsxRST38h, yeah14:46
VDVsxRST38h, the votes come from maemo select afaik14:46
RST38hVDVsx: Some are14:46
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VDVsxI'm getting a lot of them14:46
RST38hVDVsx: But a lot of them come from Google Crawler indexing Maemo Select14:46
RST38hVDVsx: I am not getting them any more, but some of my products have got ridiculous numbers of votes14:47
RST38hVDVsx: Averaging to 3 of course (crawler went form 1 to 5 :))14:47
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RoazielHey guys. How do I made a propper backup of my N900, and what exactly can I back up?14:58
RoazielCoz I wanna flash it but I dont wanna loose my contact and stuff14:59
felipecRoaziel: use the backup application and backup everything15:00
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Salais there anyway to get nokia hackbox?15:02
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RST38hVDVsx: Oh, I know why I am no longer getting Google Crawler hits15:05
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X-FadeRST38h: Hmm aren't those links nofollow?15:06
RST38hX-Fade: I have no idea. All I know is that Crawler somehow followed them and "voted". Many, many times15:06
RST38hX-Fade: It probably continues "voting". The reason why I am no longer getting these hits is because all my apps were removed from Maemo Selected Applications15:07
RST38hX-Fade: Probably after that conflict with Nintendo.15:07
X-FadeRST38h: Voting is done through javascript there.15:07
* melmoth fail at qt hello world15:07
RST38hX-Fade: On Maemo Select, it is done through some server side script which you invoke with a URL15:08
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X-FadeRST38h: I'm looking at the maemo select source and that is a javascript.15:08
RST38hOk, a moment15:09
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X-FadeRST38h: onclick="javascript:return rateProduct('adblock-plus-1.0', 1);15:09
RST38hBug #619215:10
povbotBug Bots are voting in Maemo Select?15:10
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RST38hAnd the voting URL is
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JaffaWell, it'll vote now that that link is in the IRC logs!15:16
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RST38hYes yessss ;)15:16
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X-FadeRST38h: Ratings have ip recorded, so those can be removed.15:17
RST38hX-Fade: Please, do15:17
RST38hIf no IP is recorded, you can probably delete by date15:17
RST38hX-Fade: BTW, is the selection of apps at Maemo Select static or does it rotate every n days?15:17
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sp3000ShadowJK: yeah page js hanginess would be one such thing :)15:18
X-FadeRST38h: The data is fetched automatically, but a moderator selects them manually from a queue. IIRC.15:18
RST38hX-Fade: Just wondering if the removal of all my apps was due to rotation or a political decision of some kind =)15:19
X-FadeRST38h: I don't know, we only provide an api for them.15:20
ShadowJKsp3000: well it was better to hang and kill the pointless js than to be constantly slow ;)15:20
sp3000I suspect normal users might disagree15:21
* sp3000 dunno if the speed improvement is as noticeable15:21
sp3000someone's voting system votes on GET?15:22
sp3000http fail15:22
ShadowJKyeah 8 didnt notice any difference in speed, it seemed slower with jit, but it was slow enough that it asked if i wanted to terminate the script, and without the script the site became much faster :)15:23
sp3000afaiui you're not supposed to need to block bots if you, you know, do things correctly15:24
X-FadeShadowJK: block the script url then ;)15:24
sp3000(well, except malicious bots)15:24
ShadowJKI wish ham could be taught to tell me how much space is consumed in / and /opt...15:24
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ShadowJKlike, just noticed this 50 megabyte thing in extras-testing... if it's not optified I'm in for a reflash..15:25
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* sp3000 clicks on a voteapp link15:26
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: HAM is a dumbass anyway. Lacks a lot of basic features15:26
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siriusnovawhats new news15:28
siriusnovaon the Maemo N900 front :D15:28
zerojayDocScrutinizer: Like what?15:28
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sp3000so whic app is 122 and how do I find out if I voted for it?15:28
TomaszDcan anyone confirm
povbotBug 7312: E-mail setup wizard Region always defaults to Finland15:29
zerojayTomaszD: I remember it didn't default to Finland in earlier firmware revisions.. weird.15:31
TomaszDzerojay: you have PR1.1 as well and can reproduce this?15:31
X-FadeTomaszD: Yes, It says Finland and Other for me by default.15:32
ifreqfinland ftw15:32
TomaszDplease comment then :) I found that bug a bit odd tbh15:32
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zerojayTomaszD: I have PR1.1, but I can't flash it to my N900 since it's dead. :)15:33
TomaszDzerojay: murderer!15:34
zerojayDamn preproduction devices and their weak USB ports.15:34
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TomaszDdoesn't anyone else have horrible power management issues wrt WLAN with PR1.1? I had to disable PWM altogether15:35
X-FadeTomaszD: I confirmed bug 7312 for you.15:35
povbotBug E-mail setup wizard Region always defaults to Finland15:35
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TomaszDX-Fade: thx15:35
X-FadeTomaszD: That problem I can't confirm. PR1.1 works with my linksys nicely.15:36
TomaszDI love how now internet radio actually works now15:36
TomaszDone "now" too many15:36
X-FadeTomaszD: And I have been testing that for quite a while ;)15:36
TomaszDX-Fade: internal builds access? ;P15:36
rm_youX-Fade: still getting emails from pyshop-commits mailing list :P15:37
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rm_youhelp? :P15:37
X-Faderm_you: still didn't receive an email ;)15:37
RoazielIf I flash my N900 will it keep the applications I installed from the repositories?15:37
rm_youlol i keep forgetting until i see you in IRC, lol15:37
rm_yougah too many lols15:37
* rm_you is tired15:37
SpeedEvilTomaszD: wfm15:38
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Stskeepslo rm_you15:38
rm_yousup Stskeeps15:38
Stskeepsmerry christmas15:38
rm_youmerry xmas to you too :P15:39
TomaszDgod damn, WL500W is quite rare, I can't expect anyone else to have the same setup and test15:39
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StskeepsTomaszD: at one point i've had PSM issues disappear at wifi reboot15:39
Stskeepslike, theap15:39
Stskeeps ap15:39
rm_youjust graduated last week :P so hopefully can show up here more often once i stop traveling again :P15:39
threshi have wl500w15:39
rm_youX-Fade: thanks15:39
TomaszDthresh: do you use custom firmware?15:39
ShadowJKroaziel: no15:40
threshi'm using that oleg something i think15:40
threshRelease: 10/10/09 (SVN revision: 13064)15:40
RoazielOh. But what is the "Application List" option in the backup application?15:40
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X-FadeRoaziel: That will reinstall all your apps after flash/restore.15:41
TomaszDthresh: ah, so completely different firmware. I'm using this
ShadowJKit'll reinstall the apps you had15:41
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ShadowJKby redownloading15:41
rm_youwoot, no more mailing list spam from garage! :P15:41
RoazielAre ou alking about the defaul appls that came with the device or the ones I installed?15:41
TomaszDalright, I'm gonna reboot the AP15:41
X-FadeRoaziel: you installed.15:41
threshTomaszD: seems so.15:41
ShadowJKthe ones you installed15:41
rm_youi can't believe it's been over a year now i think and i never bothered really dealing with that :P15:41
zerojayX-Fade: "works with my linksys nicely"... does that mean it works with powersaving on max or medium?15:42
RoazielOh, so if I dont want to keep the apps I installd I better uncheck that option15:42
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RoazielThanks guys15:42
X-Fadezerojay: I don't know what is default in tomatoe.15:42
ShadowJKyou can untick it when you restore the backup too, I think15:42
TomaszDX-Fade: in device settings for PSM15:42
zerojayX-Fade: I'm talking about the setting on the N900, not your linksys.15:42
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X-Fadezerojay: On (Maximum)15:46
X-FadeIt can idle for days.15:47
X-Fademy wifi is always on, and switches to 3G when I'm going out of wifi range.15:47
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PaulFertserzerojay: is your device really broken or just the usb connector a bit desoldered?15:49
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zerojayX-Fade: I haven't been able to ever use powersaving max on ANY of my routers at all... older tablets can just fine.15:53
zerojayPaulFertser: The USB connector is more than just a little bit desoldered. It's completely lost inside my N900, but again, it was a prototype so....15:54
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Zombie3zerojay: that was fixed in production models, I'm told15:54
Stskeepsi kinda hope so :P15:55
zerojayZombie3: You mean "we're told". :)15:59
DocScrutinizer51cool. browserd cpu-hogged device to a grinding halt. Well almost15:59
PaulFertserzerojay: are the pcb pads damaged? I mean is is it really hard to get it working back?16:00
StskeepsDocScrutinizer51: yeah.. i am really worried about browser behaviour at times16:00
zerojayPaulFertser: I'm supposed to know that by using my x-ray vision, I guess?16:00
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PaulFertserzerojay: i assumed you disassembled the device to see for yourself with your regular human vision. :)16:01
zerojayPaulFertser: It's a preproduction Nokia prototype. It's not mine to rip open like that.16:01
TomaszDhmm, I rebooted my router, set PWM to Max and now it works fine16:01
StskeepsTomaszD: told you :P16:02
TomaszDlawdy lawdy, the browser is even faster than before16:02
Zombie3Zombie3: no, I was personally told ;-)16:02
fdvon n900, the file open dialogs won't go above /home/user/MyDocs. How can I rectify this?16:02
Zombie3I mean zerojay16:02
StskeepsTomaszD: no public announcements about behaviour ;p16:02
TomaszDStskeeps: we're all family here :P16:02
StskeepsTomaszD: yeah, but logged ;)16:03
TomaszDa logged family.16:03
DocScrutinizer51fdv: start a battle here about user evaluation ;-)16:03
* Stskeeps yawns16:03
Stskeepsfdv: hack libhildonfm16:03
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fdvDocScrutinizer51: anytime ;-)16:05
DocScrutinizer51fdv: bind-mount / to MyDocs16:05
fdvStskeeps: sounds a bit cumbersome :)16:05
DocScrutinizer51fdv: at least that's been one of the ideas16:05
Stskeepsfdv: it's a user device, not a l33t unix hacker. if you want something as l33t unix hacker, HACK IT16:05
DocScrutinizer51not tested yet16:05
fdvDocScrutinizer51: thanks, I'll look into it16:06
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DocScrutinizer51fdv: to MyDocs/my-root of course ;-P16:06
fdvStskeeps: well, why do you want a debian based system in the first place? if 8 just want to be held, I can get an iphone ;-)16:07
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Stskeepsfdv: because i can dig into things in terminal if i so want :P16:07
fdvDocScrutinizer51: :)16:07
Stskeepsbut requiring normal users to be exposed to everything is silly :P16:08
DocScrutinizer51fdv: "user tests showed no user ever wants to know about fs tree deails. User wants access to MyDocs foo only"16:08
Stskeepsor the externals d16:09
fdvStskeeps: of course, but e.g. keeping the file open dialog in pygtkeditor limited to a vfat file system set to noexec seems pretty pointless :)16:09
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fdvDocScrutinizer51: ah, argument by besserwisserism ;-)16:10
fdvStskeeps: there *are* better ways :)16:10
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n900evilis there a pedometer app¿16:13
DocScrutinizer51fdv: for your delight go read ~logs of this # of yesterday16:13
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DocScrutinizer51n900evil: wooh, spanish kbd?16:14
ShadowJKuh oh, huge scratch :s16:15
* ShadowJK hopes it didn't go through protector16:15
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n900evilonscreen keyboard16:15
ShadowJKbig enough that my finger stops when swiping16:15
fdvDocScrutinizer51: I'll do that when I get a chance. I'm a huge fan of trolls ;-)16:15
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fdv(and trolling)16:15
DocScrutinizer51aaah ¿¡16:16
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n900evilshadow: what did that?16:16
ShadowJKn900evil: not sure16:16
DocScrutinizer51fdv: that's not exactly trolling though. More a clash of paradigms16:18
DocScrutinizer51embedded in arguments that are quite sounding like trolling sometimes ;-D16:19
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siriusnovaneeds moar nokia update16:23
* DocScrutinizer51 wonders how much effort a developer of a backup solution is willing to invest to keep user clean from rootfs details and still offer a convenient way to select dirs like /tmp for the blacklist16:24
* thresh thinks rsync is an ultimate backup solution16:24
DocScrutinizer51thresh: would you agree rsync is obviously a non-GUI app16:26
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fdvDocScrutinizer51: well, my opinion is than one invariably in these discussions tends to focus very strongly on ones own side of things and very little on others'. There are surpriaingly often alternatives that can keep more than one side happy unless each side is convinced it knows what's best for the other. :-)16:26
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fdvDocScrutinizer51: but anyway, thanks. I didn't know about mount --bind.16:27
threshDocScrutinizer51: who cares :P16:27
DocScrutinizer51fdv: ack. Well I mentioned the "go to" function in mac os finder16:27
threshthere is grsync something anyway16:27
fdvDocScrutinizer51: don't know about that, but it sounds like a viable option16:29
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pupniknice: ztoube can create a 'podcast' feed out of a youtube search16:29
pupnikneeds a 'copy current url' or 'share' function for currently playing vid16:30
DocScrutinizer51finder does exaactly same telling lies about actual fs tree. still you can enter a FQN in a textfield and thus escape to real world16:30
DocScrutinizer51like "go to" '/' (enter)16:31
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ShadowJKI wish these screen protectors werent exactly the same soie as screnen16:33
* ShadowJK can't place them precisely enough16:33
ShadowJKthey end up running over the edges16:33
ShadowJKand wont stick there16:33
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: disassemble. apply protector. place metal frame *over* protector. done16:34
lbtmine were easy16:34
lbtthe £1.99 for 7 ones16:35
lbtno cutout for the front-facing speaker though16:35
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ShadowJKI wouldn't trust myself to not scrtch screen during that process :)16:35
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: did this for N810. Worked great16:35
lbtwhich was a shame as you couldn't hear very well16:35
ShadowJKmine has cutout for speaker.. i even managed to align it with speaker this time16:36
lbthow much? where from?16:36
* ShadowJK has about 4 left now16:36
ShadowJKduratec cleartec16:36
ShadowJKor durasec..16:36
ShadowJKi dont recommend, it gathers a zillion scratches during install even16:37
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: could you wet-apply them?16:37
ShadowJKI put the nokia cloth between protector and credit card this time, and it still got scratches16:37
ShadowJKi doubt oit16:37
lbteach of mine is 3 plastic sheets16:37
lbtyou peel off the back and apply to the face pushing on the front16:38
lbtthen you peel of the front16:38
lbtleaving the 'middle' sheet on the device16:38
lbtdead easy16:38
ShadowJKthis is just one sheet on a paper, it rolls into a mess if you take it off the paper16:38
DocScrutinizer51damn friggin shit. a protector that gets scratched on applying it :-S16:39
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ShadowJKmaybe in the future we'll have technology so we dont need protectors16:40
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lbtI do wonder why Nokia don't provide them...16:40
RoazielHey guys, I just ran into some trouble on my first attempt at flashing my N900.. When I ran the command on the cmd prompt it put out a bunch of text but at the end it says "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" and thats all16:40
infobotfrom memory, flashing is
lbthave you seen that Roaziel ?16:41
Roazielyes thats the page i was following16:41
ShadowJKoops, i think I managed to wedge the edge in under the screen frame/bezel using my nail16:42
DocScrutinizer51now you need to learn how to do it intentionally16:44
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saltsa_anyone having n900 in the hands now? If you shake it can you notice that something particle is moving inside it?16:45
VDVsxwazd, very nice article, lol16:45
saltsa_i'm having such issue, seems like it's on the same side than the camera16:45
lcuk2saltsa_, nothing moving around in here
saltsa_lbt, was that for me? ;)16:46
lbtyes saltsa_ mine makes light rattle16:46
fragmentsaltsa_: you mean you hear something moving?16:47
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VDVsxwazd, asus netbook, bahhh16:47
saltsa_fragment, yes16:47
lbtnothing moves if I just turn it but there's a light rattle if I shake it16:47
fragmentsaltsa_: do you have a memory card installed?16:47
saltsa_okey, so my unit isn't broken16:47
lbtif something moves as you just rotate it then it's broken16:47
lcuk2te metal hing for the mmc slot has tiny tiny movement when no mmc in16:47
saltsa_fragment, no card installed..16:47
fragmentwhat lcuk2 said16:47
lbtlcuk2: sounds about right16:47
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saltsa_lcuk2, okey, good to know.16:47
* lcuk2 has an mmc in tho16:48
fragmentsaltsa_: open the back cover and check if the SD card "holder" is locked16:48
* lbt was tempted to say it's the accelerometer relays...16:48
lcuk2lol lbt16:48
lcuk2check out that video16:48
saltsa_fragment, it's locked but i'm still hearing the same kind of metal noise...16:48
fragmentsaltsa_: hold your finger on it and then shake?16:49
saltsa_fragment, still hearing...16:49
lbtlcuk... angular momentum... pendulum16:49
n900evilcamera shitter16:49
wazdVDVsx: : review apps for n900 and get n90016:49
saltsa_no stylus, neither battery I think16:49
fragmentsaltsa_: do not shake it then ;)16:50
wazdVDVsx: kind of ridiculous deal :)16:50
VDVsxwazd, humm, translation says asus netbook, lol16:50
lcuk2lbt, just dynamic orientation16:50
wazdVDVsx: that's for loosers :)16:50
saltsa_yes, it's working well, just think if it's somehow broken and will break the functionality later on..16:50
wazdVDVsx: "2nd place"16:50
lbtlcuk2: yes, it *needs* momentum16:50
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VDVsxwazd, the translation is not that bad:
lcuk2lbt heh, thats for another day16:51
lcuk2lbt, did oyu notice the sheep16:52
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lbtwho drew that?16:53
lcuk2me lol16:53
lcuk2but for the sheepdog game, it needs top down rotated sprite type things16:54
lcuk2and they need to be rotatable16:54
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lcuk2lbt with momentum they do silly things, when the device is practically flat they rotate around wildly already16:58
lbtyeah - probably wouldn't work really16:58
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hoppa123Hello everyone16:59
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sp3000122 is docstogo?17:02
sp3000is there a vote log?17:03
X-Fadesp3000: Not hosted at, so don't know.17:03
Roazielguys Im trying to flash my N900 but the command prompt only says "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" and stays like that... Any advice at all??17:04
tank-manRoaziel, what are the instructions you are using to flash it?17:05
infobotsomebody said flashing was
RoazielIm on a 64bit vista, but I have booted my computer with driver check disabled, as noted in the instrucktions17:06
tank-manthe instructions say that is what is suppose to happen17:07
ruskieRoaziel, tried to disconnect it and reconnect it after?17:07
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RoazielI did before17:07
ifreqConnect the USB cable while pressing 'u' key on the N90017:08
ifreqdid like that?17:08
ifreqwhil eit was switched off?17:08
tank-manIt will say: Suitable USB device not found, waiting, N900: Remove USB and plug it back. Hold U to get to boot screen with usb logo in top right, letgo.17:08
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RoazielI did that, I see the USB logo, but nothing is happening still17:09
GreyFoxxhmmmmm is there a repository I can add to my n810 (running latest os2008) to get things like smb/cifs kernel modules,   and tcpdump ?17:09
Roazielit still says the same in the command prompt17:10
GreyFoxxI tried installing wizard mounter but it complained baout missing a package of module extras17:10
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tank-man"kernel-diablo-modules-extra" maybe from the extras repository17:14
tank-mandid you uncheck the "disabled" box for the maemo extras repository?17:15
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GAN900Roaziel, are you doing it as root?17:18
GAN900Roaziel, nothing interfering with your USB connectivity?17:18
Roazielwhat do you mean am I doing it as root?17:19
GAN900Roaziel, sudo?17:19
Roazieland no, I dont think anyting is interfering, but I dont really know17:19
GAN900Oh, Vista17:19
RoazielIm on Vista17:19
GAN900You're on your own, then. ;)17:20
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GreyFoxxtank-man: That's the mpackage I was looking for.   It's definitely not disabled in the application manager but checking under all installable applications doesn't show to for me to install17:20
GreyFoxxI wiped and reflashed it recently so now I'm mtrying to reinstall everything I don't have anymore :)17:21
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RST38hBy the way
RoazielHa! I did it17:25
Roazielturns out I had to go into the flashers properties and make sure it launches in Administrator mode. Coz the command prompt doesnt do that on its own17:26
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*** crashanddie changes topic to "irc:// wishes you a Merry Christmas | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Bugday: Dec 15th, 18:00-03:00 UTC at irc:// ->"17:39
crashanddiestupid autoreplace17:40
crashanddie#maemo wishes you a Merry Christmas | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Bugday: Dec 15th, 18:00-03:00 UTC at #maemo-bugs ->
X-FadeRemove the bugday while you are at it ;)17:42
arachnistX-Fade: who know, there might be some time travelers around here17:42
*** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Merry Christmas on behalf of the Maemo Community"17:43
crashanddieDayum, that was some effort17:43
crashanddie~lart colloquy17:44
* infobot whacks colloquy upside the head17:44
crashanddie~pet infobot17:44
* infobot reaches over and pets infobot on the head, saying "There, there! It'll all be ok!"17:44
crashanddiehow are you X-Fade17:44
arachnist~pet himself17:44
* infobot reaches over and pets himself on the head, saying "There, there! It'll all be ok!"17:44
crashanddiethat sounds outright schizophrenic17:46
GAN900crashanddie, Adium17:47
GAN900Grab the latest from hg or the beta from their site17:47
X-Fadecrashanddie: A bit of pre christmas chill out. Not doing much ;)17:47
lbtback now17:47
GAN900Way better than Colloquy17:47
crashanddieGAN900: I don't like adium17:47
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crashanddieGAN900: I don't like colloquy that much either, but I it's less worse17:48
crashanddies/I i/i/17:48
crashanddieoy infobot17:48
infobotcrashanddie meant: GAN900: I don't like colloquy that much either, but it's less worse17:48
crashanddiethere you go17:48
wazdMoscow got quasi-imax Avatar :(17:48
GAN900Adium is better, trust me.17:49
wazdproper sound, proper tech but lowres17:49
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GAN900Sony 4k HD is higher resolution and higher framerate than IMAX17:49
wazdlooked awesome anyway :)17:49
GAN900It's just on a smaller screen17:49
crashanddiewazd: do you an N900 yet?17:49
wazdcrashanddie: no17:49
* pupnik got out of the familiy obligations :D 17:49
GAN900Closest IMAX Avatar was 300 miles away for me.17:50
crashanddiewazd: when are you getting one?17:50
wazdcrashanddie: I suppose never :D17:50
crashanddiewe need you to have one, don't we?17:50
crashanddieYou're our best designer17:50
crashanddieyou're a bloody pain in the arse, but you're still the only designer who's worth a damn17:50
wazdGAN900: Well, IMAX is the most comfortable 3D format to watch17:50
wazdGAN900: light and big glasses17:50
wazdcrashanddie: I don't need it to design :)17:51
lcuk2ho ho ho :D merry christmas17:51
lcuk2hey seb \op17:51
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crashanddiehey lcuk2, what's up guv?17:51
crashanddiewazd: so you don't want one?17:51
* RST38h does not understand why you would want to watch Avatar when there is DrWho17:51
* RST38h ducks17:51
lcuk2just debugging stuffs, and spinning things around17:51
crashanddieRST38h: dr who is tomorrow right?17:51
wazdRST38h: die :D17:51
wazdRST38h: No, seriously, it's epic :)17:52
GAN900RST38h, not here.17:52
lcuk2dr who ftw!17:52
wazdcrashanddie: well, I *want* but I *can't afford* one :)17:52
RST38hGAN: Torrent!17:52
crashanddieI'm tempted to do the christmas thingy17:52
lcuk2crashanddie, which way is up17:53
wazdcrashanddie: anyway, as you can see in my countdown, I'm doing pretty fine without actual device :)17:53
crashanddielcuk2: north pole is still closest17:53
GAN900RST38h, kinda defeats the purpose of going to see it in theaters instead of Avatar17:53
RST38hGAN: Ah, I prefer seeing it in the comfort of my bedroom, on N90017:53
wazdCameron is da man, Again :)17:53
GAN900wazd, I just want to know why the former US Marine kept slipping into an Australian accent.17:53
GAN900RST38h, that's no theater experience.17:54
lcuk2crashanddie, i seem to have given up on landscape/portrait
wazdGAN900: our translation failed at translating accents :)17:54
RST38hGAN: Maybe he is a naturalized alien17:54
GAN900wazd, it's too bad the story was so week and the morality so black and white17:54
GAN900wazd, oh, right, dubbed17:54
crashanddielcuk2: well, Nokia weren't true to their word either17:54
wazdGAN900: dubs btw were awesome17:54
lcuk2mmm which word was that17:55
crashanddielcuk2: providing portrait browser before christmas17:55
wazdGAN900: looks like they were supervised by US17:55
GAN900A better story and some grittier morality would've taken the movie up to Dark Knight levels17:55
wazdGAN900: WAY better that ordinary russian dubs17:55
crashanddiewazd: aren't russian dubs usually the english soundtrack and just 2 guys talking over it?17:55
wazdcrashanddie: 1 guy :D17:56
GAN900Too much FernGully meets Surrogates17:56
crashanddiewazd: every time I'm in Ukraine that's what I see on telly -- one guy doing all the male actors, one chick doing all the females17:56
crashanddieGAN900: PM17:56
GAN900crashanddie, where?17:57
wazdwell, story is a but over-straight but visuals were epic17:57
wazdI was like :-O17:57
GAN9003D glasses? ;)17:57
* wazd forgit IMAX googles17:58
wazddamn google :D17:58
wazdBut I've found DOF a bit overacted17:58
crashanddielcuk2: how's the new job coming along?17:58
RST38hcrashanddie: there are different quality dubs nowadays17:59
RST38hcrashaddie: Some of them are pretty good, others are more...hmm...budget.17:59
crashanddieI remember talking to this Brit in Kiev17:59
crashanddiehe was saying that he was installing an HD recording studio for nearly every TV station in eastern Europe, Africa18:00
crashanddiethey're paying literally millions, and nearly no-one of the general population will have access to HD televisions before the next 15 years18:00
lcuk2crashanddie, great, doign many different things18:00
wazdoh, and Avatars were awesome18:00
* lcuk2 is debugging things atm18:00
crashanddielcuk2: you're working?18:00
crashanddielcuk2: on Christmas eve?18:01
crashanddielcuk2: gtfo and go spend time with your family, numbnuts18:01
wazdSSigourney Weaver replica was brilliant :)18:01
lcuk2they are out shopping18:01
* lcuk2 dislikes cattlemarket18:01
crashanddieSS Igourney Weaver? That's a bit neo-nazi, isn't it?18:01
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lcuk2maybe, but she would kick the aliens' ass18:01
GAN900More like she got her ass kicked18:02
crashanddieI'm an alien18:02
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GAN900Scientist < cargo transport crew18:02
wazdI was waiting Weaver to operate exo-suit :D18:03
wazdBut no, Cameron didn't want any references :)18:03
lcuk2crashanddie, in which country tho18:04
crashanddielcuk2: france18:04
crashanddiesouth of18:04
GAN900wazd, those battlemechs were silly18:04
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GAN900Why do they have to carry oversized assault rifles. . . .18:05
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GAN900Shoulder mounted miniguns with optical tracking. ;)18:05
wazdGAN900: what about bloody knife? :D18:05
GAN900Yeah, that was bad too18:06
lcuk2you gotta be dual wielding macho soldier, cant have pansy shoulder mounted guns18:06
wazdGAN900: bad? It was like "wait, wha?!"18:06
GAN900Yes, so random18:06
GAN900No reason to give a mech a giant knife18:06
lcuk2a decent gun is one of those hip mounted uber ones from aliens18:06
wazdmaybe he had giant spoon with him18:07
siriusnovaN900 update18:07
siriusnovacometh soon plz18:07
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crashanddiehas there been any word about the portrait-enabled browser?18:08
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crashanddieNokia has 22 minutes before they're out of time18:09
fluxwhat happens then? the world comes to an end?-(18:09
crashanddienope, it's close-of-business in Europe, and the official deadline for Nokia comes to pass18:10
fluxthere was an official deadline for portrait browsing?18:10
crashanddiewell, Ari said in Amsterdam that we'd have it "before Christmas"18:11
GAN900It's been delayed, I believe18:12
crashanddiewell, when I got Quim's email this morning, it was pretty obvious it was going to be delayed18:12
RST38hcrashanddie: I would not be so sure about nobody having HD access18:13
crashanddieRST38h: please upgrade your bullet-time, that conversation flew by a few hours ago :P18:13
RST38hcrashanddie: 2/3 of the local soaps are already shot in HD (for DVD distribution, if nothing else)18:13
RST38hcrashanddie: Sorry, I am still at work18:14
lcuk2well if the pr1.1 firmware is out for testing now, thats a good thing, cos now everyone will have time to find and report anything odd18:14
RST38hcrashanddie: And the commercial digital TV is also done in HD now18:14
RST38hlcuk: Not me :)18:14
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crashanddieRST38h: studios doing it is one thing18:14
wazdRST38h: ha-ha (again) :)18:15
crashanddieRST38h: people being able to buy an HDTV-enabled television is another thing18:15
* RST38h moos at wazd woefully18:15
* wazd ducks18:15
RST38hcrashanddie: no problemo to buy one18:15
thresh720p is possible on cortex a818:15
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RST38hcrashanddie: just costs more money18:15
crashanddieand money isn't what people have in rural Ukraine18:15
threshof course, fairly simple stuff, but still18:15
wazdRST38h: local=russan? Karmelita HD? :D18:16
RoazielHi guys, 2 quick question. Where can I find the account-plugin-haze, and is it stable? are there any major risks?18:16
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RST38hwazd: Most of 'em - notice how there are always black stripes at the top//bottom of the screen18:17
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* RST38h not sure he wants to know what Karmelita is though18:17
crashanddieaverage salary in the Ukraine is what, 1500 hryvnia per month?18:17
wazdRST38h: lucky man :)18:17
* thresh doesnt know what it is either18:17
crashanddie(roughly $200)18:17
RST38hcrashanddie: people do not buy these on average salaries18:17
RST38hcrashanddie: they steal/pilfer/receive kickbacks and buy luxury stuff18:18
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RST38hcrashanddie: check the number of black Porshe Cayennes at the Kiev streets (unless it was replaced as the fashionable car recently)18:19
crashanddieRST38h: yeah, it's amazing that sometimes you see people with bentleys, jags, lambos driving around18:19
crashanddiethough the bentley retailer closed shop this summer18:19
threshthat's former SU, nothing amazing about it :)18:19
RST38hcrashanddie: Crisis? Ran out of money to steal? =)18:21
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crashanddieanyway, I'm off for the night18:31
crashanddieeveryone enjoy yourselves, take care of your loved ones, and talk to you later18:31
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VDVsxcrashanddie, happy holidays18:32
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fluxsoo, I guess using lookup tables instead of sin(x) is faster in n900 level hardware?18:37
fluxas is using fixed point math instead of floating point?18:37
flux(faster as in significantly faster)18:37
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SpeedEvilgenerally, yes18:42
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gevaertsIs there a somewhat recent gnu make package available for n900 somewhere?18:42
SpeedEvilwhile there may be an FPU, it's not typically a great FPU18:42
SpeedEvilwell optimised ntegger will usually spank it.18:42
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BluesLeethere is an evopedia port on garagae18:55
GAN900lol, they're giving away litle webbooks on the View18:56
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JaffaRight, should prep for the Xmas party we're having here.19:05
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RoazielAnyone know what the situation is with account-plugin-haze? is it safe to use?19:18
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SpeedEvilI don't think anyone has found any problems with software - even from extras-dev - that will do worse than make you flash the device again, and lose all your data19:20
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RoazielLol, yeah but I want to avoid doing that :P19:20
RoazielI Used it before, and I had to flash my device but I have no way of knowing if the problems I had were because of Haze19:21
SpeedEvilhaze is the irc one?19:21
RoazielNo, Haze is the one with MSN, Yahoo, AIM, etc etc19:21
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: (any worse) well I'm waiting for my xchat script to get me on freenode blacklist permanently. That's probably worse than need for a reflash19:39
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ShadowJKscripts suck19:41
pupnikfacebook wants my email password19:43
pupnikListen, if you use facebook, you are a sheep, a tool, and an assmonkey.19:44
n900evilxchat script?19:44
pupnikjust wanted google to know that19:44
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DocScrutinizer51n900evil: manual ghosting and nickchange sucks. As do frequently changing nicks19:50
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DocScrutinizer51n900evil: check # logs of 18.dec. I posted a pastebin URL to jebba suggesting he is "free to copy it"19:54
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DocScrutinizer51n900evil: basically it's a file with one xchat cmd per line19:55
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DocScrutinizer51n900evil: and a 'LOAD -e (FQN of script)' in xchat's startup on-connect command setting19:56
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DocScrutinizer51n900evil: oops. scratch that jebba note. that's been a different topic19:58
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Noobihow to remove the back panel on my n900? -_-20:23
DocScrutinizer51brute force20:23
arachnistjohn the ripper ;)20:24
arachnistNoobi: seriously20:24
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arachnistNoobi: around the right speaker there's a space20:25
arachnistNoobi: you can put the stylus there and use it to remove the back panel20:25
arachnistneither should break20:25
DocScrutinizer51need s atrong fingernail and force20:25
BluewindNoobi: feels as if you'd break it but that's how you do that20:25
arachnistDocScrutinizer51: or use the stylus instead of a fingernail20:26
DocScrutinizer51I'm concerned about the stylus ;-P20:26
Noobii hope i didnt break it20:26
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Noobiit seriously separated the camera and the rest?20:26
arachnistNoobi: it didn't. it only sounds bad20:26
arachnistNoobi: no. just the lens20:26
arachnistNoobi: the camera body is inside20:27
arachnistnot even lens20:27
arachnistlens are with the rest of the camera body20:27
Noobiand...the sim?20:27
arachnistonly the camera cover is on the back cover20:27
arachnistand the sim is under the battery20:27
Noobiits like a...20:28
arachnistagain, you can use the stylus to remove the battery20:28
DocScrutinizer51it's like it was never meant to be opened at all20:28
Noobii know20:28
BluewindµSD is also in there20:28
Noobii already removed it20:28
Noobiits all like a freaking brain-teaser20:29
arachnistDocScrutinizer51: well, why do you need to open it?20:29
arachnistNoobi: no, not really.20:29
Bluewindwhere is the startup nokia logo located? /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/startup_nokia_logo.png to be something else20:31
DocScrutinizer51which logo?20:32
Bluewindjust when booting you get a blue nokia logo20:32
n900evilwonder if thats in bootloader20:33
DocScrutinizer51probably compiled into the kernel20:33
Bluewindfrom what I read on the forum you could change that on the n80020:34
DocScrutinizer51you can replace the shaking hands anim20:35
Bluewindyeah that's easy20:35
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DocScrutinizer51n900evil: need details bout xchat scripting?20:37
n900evilnot really atm.20:38
n900evilhow to get it to not seg on pref save ou;d be nice tho.20:38
DocScrutinizer51lol yeah20:39
RST38hmoo all20:39
DocScrutinizer51mooo back20:40
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wazdRST38h: : remoo20:40
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RST38hwazd: how are things?20:40
wazdRST38h: lots of work :(20:41
RST38hthat's normal...20:41
DocScrutinizer51too many morons with red coat to kickass? ;-P20:42
threshwazd: easy, get ill20:43
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DocScrutinizer51that sucks. tell ya that20:44
* RST38h is afraid it won't work for wazd20:44
wazdyeah :D20:44
threshworked for me :)20:44
* DocScrutinizer51 coughs and sneezes20:45
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hardakerBad file descriptor at /usr/bin/maemo-optify line 24020:46
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DocScrutinizer51as long as it's no 'stale NFS lock' and you never had and nfs mounts20:47
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DocScrutinizer51hardaker: wrong shell?20:54
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hardakerturned out it was a missing DEBIAN directory20:54
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hardaker(now I have a different error)20:55
hardakercannot chdir te debian/libval720:55
hardakerwhich exists, so i'm confused again.20:55
hardakerand I'm not sure what's telling me that (maemo or debian build)20:55
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RazHey guys is there any way to add FLV support to the video player?21:12
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Proteousdoubt it21:13
n900evilmplayer plays flv21:13
n900evilsome 10* faster than flash21:13
ShadowJKcodec-support adds flv support to mediaplayer i think21:14
Proteousno that can't be right. everything is faster in flash!21:14
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DocScrutinizer51friggin mediaplayer doesn't know how to do rst subtitles21:14
Proteousit makes a crappy cup of coffee too21:14
DocScrutinizer51or I'm too stupid to tell it to do21:14
bigbrovar_Raz: the decode package in extra repo claim to bring flash support to the N90021:15
ShadowJKIt doesn't support subtitles and it can't be made to support subtitles21:15
bigbrovar_Raz: although i have not tried it to see if this works.21:15
ShadowJKflash video container format support21:15
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: well that's a statement at least21:16
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Sir_Lancelothi guys21:17
ShadowJKsupposedly it's "simple" to compile subtitle support for gst, and another player could use it with the dsp/iva2 accelerated decoders21:17
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RazSorry I was away...21:18
Sir_Lancelotmerry x-mas to all21:18
Proteousmerry x-mas Sir_Lancelot21:18
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Ceronsanta didnt bring me any navigation maemo apps for xmas :(21:18
RazThe reason I want the default media player to play FLV is because it has that local network media sharing thing. As far as I know mplayer doesnt have that21:18
RazI have tons of flv files on my computer21:18
RazI dont wanna have to import them evey time I wanna watch one21:19
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Proteouswho stores their media as flv...21:19
RazI d, coz I grab them off of websites21:19
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Razand I dont convert21:19
TomaszDRaz, Decoders Support fails?21:19
Razwhats that?21:19
bigbrovar_TomaszD: just noticed that too21:19
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TomaszDa package that is supposed to make flv work, among other things21:20
ProteousRaz read the channel backlog...21:20
TomaszDit pulls the flv decoder and registers flv21:20
bigbrovar_TomaszD: Raz just tried a flv file on my N900 and it failed to recognise it, decoder #fail21:20
RazOh you have that decoder?21:20
Razok Ill try the docer now21:21
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Sir_Lancelotthe app manager on n900 is so shitty...21:22
Razwow, it works21:22
TomaszDSir_Lancelot, wait for PR1.121:23
Sir_Lancelotit doesn,t tell us which apps are maemo5 compatible and which are not21:23
RazThanks guys21:23
Sir_Lanceloti'm quite eagar tomaszd21:23
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TomaszDRaz, np, consider this an xmas present, coz I made that package21:24
Arkenoiwhen will pr1.1 available for general public?21:24
Arkenoiwill be21:24
GAN900Sir_Lancelot, how the hell do you expect it to guess?21:25
TomaszDArkenol, even us community testers don't know21:25
GAN900Sir_Lancelot, easy solution is to use only Fremantle repos.21:25
TomaszDbut let me tell you, it's worth the wait21:25
GAN900TomaszD, sush.21:26
TomaszDwhat, no specifics21:26
GAN900TomaszD, it wasn't distributed for people to do marketing. :P21:26
Sir_LancelotGAN900 you tell me21:26
Stskeepszhs, no opengles21:26
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Sir_Lanceloti know nothing about linux21:27
GAN900Sir_Lancelot, OK, will do, there isn't an easy or reliable way. :)21:27
GAN900Unless you just tell it to only use fremantle for the repo distro. :)21:28
GAN900So, stick to repositories for Fremantle.21:28
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ArkenoiTomaszD, what are requirements for update? Did it go smoothly, do i need certain amount of free space on / , whatever?21:31
TomaszDArkenoi, no comment.21:32
ShadowJKi dont think it's within the scope of ham to help people who add lots of random repos...21:32
GAN900Arkenoi, all updates will be pushed through h-a-m via the repos.21:32
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Sir_Lanceloti will do so Gan900 thanks for the advise21:35
Milo-hmm, I installed few apps today21:35
Milo-none of them will show up in the 'more' section :/21:35
ShadowJKwhat apps?21:36
Milo-flashlight, liqtorch21:36
Milo-and some other flashlight app from extras-devel21:36
Milo-needed some light because I lost my glasses :/21:37
Milo-and peogeut's lamp is useless21:37
TomaszDflashlight will not show up there21:37
Milo-why not?21:37
TomaszDopen the cover21:37
Milo-tested liqtorch the day I received my n90021:37
TomaszDshut the app down21:38
TomaszDopen the menu21:38
Milo-liqtorch how ever should appear in the more section21:38
Milo-enabling extras-devel made the application manager start really really slowly21:39
Milo-it feels like it's re-creating the manifest each time21:39
RST38hit is deleting every 13th byt of your /21:40
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Milo-TomaszD opened camera cover, shut down the camera app, then what?21:41
Milo-foudn it21:41
Milo-that is brilliant21:41
Milo-exactly what I needed, though now it is too late :D21:41
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Milo-Lantizia are you a cat?21:42
LantiziaThe first cat to use an N900 successfully, I'm in the Guiness Book of Records you know21:43
n900evilI was about to complain about poor battery life, then I remembered mencoder in the background.21:43
TomaszDI sense a good sense of humour21:43
n900evilI sense a disturbance in the farce.21:44
Milo-battery.charge_lever.percentage = 48 (0x30) (int)21:44
LantiziaI sense your senses.21:44
Milo-the battery icon shows roughly 75% though :P21:44
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DocScrutinizer51Milo-: that's all guesswork and handwaving21:45
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Milo-the command line seems to be more accurate than the picture21:46
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ShadowJKthe battery icon is always overly optimistic on nokia :)21:46
Milo-though, unplugged the phone from charger this morning, indicator showed green, meaning it's full21:46
Milo-checked command line and it said 90% :P21:46
DocScrutinizer51that's ok21:47
Milo-my e71 had funny battery icon21:47
Milo-it was either full, or empty21:47
LantiziaHave you put synapse into extras-devel Milo- ?21:47
Milo-it showed full for few days, and then it all suddenly goes from full to empty in few hours21:48
Arkenoialmost all battery icons are non-linear. They are 100-80% 50% of the time and then discharge quickly. dunnon why.21:48
Milo-and then the empty shows until it runs out of memory21:48
Milo-Lantizia synapse?21:49
LantiziaWhos got Synapse Milo- ?21:49
Milo-who what where?21:49
DocScrutinizer51runs out of mem?? o.O21:49
Milo-DocScrutinizer51 yes21:49
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Milo-e71 has a funny bug which makes it run out of memory, a bug that nokia can't fix21:49
Milo-bug called *cough* symbian *cough*21:49
Milo-the memory isn't actually full21:50
Milo-but the operating system wants some attention21:50
Milo-and then all it can do is show 'out of memory' warnings21:50
LantiziaDo you reckon Nokia may develop a symbian application layer for linux? (like wine is a windows application layer) ?21:50
Lantiziasine perhaps ? :D21:50
Lantiziause all your old Nokia apps on Maemo based Nokia phones21:50
TomaszDyes, it's called Qt21:50
Milo-Lantizia anyways, no idea what you were talking about with that synapse-thingy21:51
LantiziaAh but your apps would have to be ported to Qt21:51
DocScrutinizer51eeew nightmare21:51
Milo-Lantizia but according to a friend who works for nokia-symbian, most of the new apps are written in Qt.21:51
LantiziaI mean a 100% compatible application layer, both maemo and symbian are now open source - Nokia controlling both21:51
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LantiziaMilo-, not all third party ones tho21:51
Milo-of course not all third party ones21:52
LantiziaAnyway Synapse is in Java21:52
ShadowJKI think it started when people began comparing "i charged yesterday and still got full bars"21:52
Milo-but you have to be a complete idiot to develop symbian code if you choose between qt and symbian21:52
ShadowJKso they just made the first bar go away at 50%21:52
LantiziaOh sure... but if Nokia ever wanted to wean people off Symbian and off to Maemo... then a compatibility layer would go a long way21:52
ShadowJK100%compatible is so much work...21:53
ShadowJKnot really realistic21:53
Milo-especially when Symbian isn't 100% compatible with itself.21:53
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ShadowJKtrue :)21:54
DocScrutinizer51and then emulating that out-of-mem bug... NOOooooohoho21:54
LantiziaAre we expecting the new open source "Symbian" (rather than "Symbian OS") based on S60 5th... to be on new devices soon?21:54
ShadowJKnot even Nokia is able to writr symbian apps that work on more than a handful of devices21:54
LantiziaI like the look of that new Qt IDE they've released21:55
LantiziaMight drop my learning of GTK+ and look at that instead21:55
LantiziaIt can compile for it all... lin, win, maemo21:55
Ceron santa @ jack bauer21:55
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: actually a sine could be better on that than real symbian platforms21:55
LantiziaDocScrutinizer, well it would be uniform I suppose21:56
ShadowJKi dont want to install any qt software, I suspect the qt4-gui and friends aren't optified21:56
LantiziaSine is not an Emulator21:56
DocScrutinizer51sine --type=E71 symbianAPP21:56
Lantiziayeah :)21:56
Lantiziasine-dpkg -i app.sis21:57
Lantiziawell drop the d lol21:57
ShadowJKit's just silly to rewrite an entire obsolete OS, by the time you're done it will have been properly dead for 5 years21:57
Lantiziawell who says it's obsolite!?21:58
Lantiziaif this new "Symbian" based on S60 5th is meant to be coming21:58
Milo-symbian is obsolete21:58
Milo-it can't do multitouch21:58
Milo-too complicated addition21:58
Lantiziawell I don't see Nokia promising all phones will go Maemo do you?21:58
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: yeah' like wine21:58
LantiziaDoes Nokia have a name for that pre-symbian OS they used to use on really old (or low cost) phones?21:59
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wazdI wonder if OMW will reach 10k downloads by 2010 :)21:59
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Lantiziawazd, the weather app?22:00
wazdLantizia: yes22:00
ShadowJKlantizia: they still use22:00
ShadowJKs30 too22:00
Lantiziasure but if this new "Symbian" drops that silly notion and is coded to work on all past nokia devices22:01
DocScrutinizer51I wonder if liqtorch is a spyapp22:01
lcuk2spying on what22:01
LantiziaI'm just saying I don't think Symbian is dead... Nokia have a place for it and it's place is devices that are meant to be phones as their primary function22:02
DocScrutinizer51no idea. Just noticed it's way to many bytes for what it does. And even needs wget o.O22:02
LantiziaMaemo will probably remain for devices that are portable computers as their primary function22:02
Lantiziabut phones will die out anyway over many many years22:02
lcuk2DocScrutinizer, libliqbase does22:02
lcuk2the torch specifically doesnt22:03
DocScrutinizer51scary shit22:03
Milo-why does it take so long to open ovi maps and application manager?22:04
lcuk2why is it scary?22:04
ShadowJKovi maps is like this gigantic javascript in the browser22:04
lcuk2hey DocScrutinizer did you know the browser contains stuff to connect to *shock* web servers!22:05
LantiziaMilo-, you said it can't do multitouch - i don't think maemo can either22:06
ShadowJKit's a stupid metric.22:06
Lantiziaor rather if it can, then I don't see the functionality in my n90022:06
DocScrutinizer51lcuk2: I don't need other people to make myself look like a fool22:06
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Milo-Lantizia it's on the features-list of maemo622:07
LantiziaMilo-, and will maemo6 be available for N900 users?22:07
Milo-Lantizia no22:07
Milo-I don't know why multitouch is important, but for some reason it is :/22:07
Lantiziawell thats pretty shitty22:07
Milo-Lantizia besides, the screens for N900 and earlier models don't support multitouch22:08
Milo-wrong type of screen22:08
Lantizia1 OS for 1 Device... thats how it's gonna be forever and evert22:08
ShadowJKand very few people try to do anything about it22:08
melmothzooming with two finger is kind of cool22:08
ShadowJKthey just buy the next one22:09
Milo-melmoth that's the only thing anyone can think of when multitouch is mentioned22:09
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Lantiziawell contract I'm on for the N900 ends in 18months... will have to see what maemo device is available then22:09
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RST38hisoHunt RIP22:09
Milo-is that the only useful thing for multitouch?22:09
* Arkenoi does not think there is any need in multitouch for zoom as there are hardware zoom keys22:09
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Milo-RST38h another torrent site killed?22:09
DocScrutinizer51Milo-: who told maemo6 won't be avail for N900?22:09
Arkenoiusing multitouch for rotate is more handy, but do you really need it?22:09
Milo-DocScrutinizer51 tekojo did22:09
melmothit s not needed, it s just cool22:10
RST38hMilo: looks like it22:10
ShadowJKthe method of xooming is unimportant imo, the key thing is that it's something that can be used everywhere, and that it responds22:10
Milo-DocScrutinizer51 well, through a simple update22:10
Milo-of course you can change the operating system as you wish with flashing22:10
Milo-but that, again isn't for the non-technical users22:11
ShadowJKthe browser's spinzoom and hwkey zoom always work, doubletap zoom only work when browser isn't busy, and there's no indicator to tell you when browser isn't busy...22:11
Milo-there is too many apps in -devel, not enough apps in -testing and definitely too low amount of apps in extras22:11
DocScrutinizer51hwkey zoom??22:12
Milo-sound buttons22:12
Milo-I think?22:12
ShadowJKusing the rocker keys22:12
lcuk2Milo-, help out then22:12
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Milo-no idea what to do with devel packages22:12
lcuk2file bugs a bout -testing, speak to the devs about -devel, let them know the bits that are good/bad/indifferent22:13
lcuk2help them to make their minds up22:13
Milo-been testing some useful looking apps in -testing22:13
Milo-but the maemo site is always down when I want to give thumbs up22:13
Milo-or report bugs22:13
* lcuk2 nods 22:13
Milo-an application from -devel crashed my whole more section yesterday22:13
Milo-wanted to report it and the page wouldn't load :/22:14
lcuk2maybe santa will bring new servers :)  or at least the new year lol22:14
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lcuk2buy em in the january sales :D22:14
GAN900I really wish Nokia had a logo for Maemo22:14
Milo-'new year lol'22:14
Milo-the new year lol22:15
GAN900Emailed Sygic to ask them to stop using the chopped up logo they're using now.22:15
ShadowJKI'm too afraid to touch anything out of extras that isn't absolutely necessary. it's the curse of n900, it has become so useful and integral part of my day I couldn't do without it if something from -testing blows rootfs away22:16
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lcuk2extras is ok isnt it?22:16
lcuk2-testing also as long as you go in with a clear head22:17
ShadowJKI meant outside of extras22:17
RazAnyone know why some video files on the N900 are played with some weird lines across the screen?22:17
lcuk2and -devel is just wild wild west, but have you actually found something that completely kills stuff?22:17
DocScrutinizer51GAN900: is there any site describing the somewhat obscure relations between maemo and nokia, hw and sw, finnland and US?22:17
ShadowJKafaik it's required for ectras apps to use /opt not /22:17
lcuk2would be academic interest to know22:17
ShadowJKthere's that 3d demo in -testing now that eats 40 megs in / or something ;)22:18
ShadowJKc something..22:18
lcuk2thats not completely killing things tho is it22:18
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, what's obscure?22:18
GAN900Maemo Devices is a division in Nokia that develops Maemo and the hardware it runs on.22:19
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lcuk2hola RevdKathy22:19
RevdKathyYou saved my life last night - bet yo never even noticed22:19
DocScrutinizer51GAN900: responsibilities and information flow between all those entities22:19
lcuk2rly? how? :D22:19
RevdKathythe cold has taken out my outside light and I had to get down two flights of granite steps covered in black ice.22:20
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, Maemo Devices is just like any other department within a large company.22:20
RevdKathyThat's when I remembered I had a torch on the device I was carrying round my neck... and got down safely22:20
GAN900Are you perhaps confusing Maemo with
DocScrutinizer51GAN900: ooh. thanks for clarifying22:20
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, only interesting thing is that they're an R&D division.22:21
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* lcuk2 was singing baa baa black sheep last night o_O22:21
RevdKathyThe sheep on your liqbase video looks seasick from all that motion22:22
RevdKathywere you watching your fglocks by night?22:22
lcuk2the rotation one?22:22
RevdKathyyeah - I reckon that sheep be turning green22:23
lcuk2its so cool how they stay upright :D22:23
RevdKathyyes, it is :)22:23
RevdKathyvery. very clever22:23
lcuk2the sketches look like they are walking22:23
RevdKathyI look forward to sheep in our field doing that22:23
lcuk2indeed, i needed rotating sketches22:24
lcuk2for top down rotatability stuff22:24
RazAnyone know if theres a way to skip back and forward in a video file when streaming on a local network?22:24
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RevdKathycan they not simply spin so they're facing 'nose down' with the acceleromoter?22:24
lcuk2yes, now they could22:25
lcuk2before last night i couldnt rotate them anyway22:25
lcuk2ive had a little code comment in my program for months saying "//rotate here"  but didnt put the code in22:25
RevdKathyahhh so that was a big breakthrough!22:25
RevdKathyGreat - well done!22:25
* GAN900 sighs22:26
GAN900Sick for Christmas22:26
lcuk2indeedy :D22:26
lcuk2:( gan22:26
Ceronlcuk2: got any xmas presents for me?22:26
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Ceronmaemo releated?22:26
lcuk2you can have that one
RevdKathyOh no, GAN900 - what's up?22:26
GAN900Sore throat22:27
lcuk2if you want to optify the lib for me so i caor this one
GAN900Front end of a cold22:27
RevdKathyI had 'flu last Christmas - 1st time in 20 years I didn't work Christmas day22:27
RevdKathyoh that's rough22:27
lcuk2ceron rather, or this one
GAN900'least I'm not down with the flu!22:27
RevdKathyecinacea and garlic22:27
lcuk2GAN900, lemsip and early bed22:27
RevdKathyand lots and lots of whisky22:27
lcuk2else santa wont come22:27
GAN900Been gargling salt water22:27
RevdKathySanta's been letting me down for years :(22:28
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lcuk2santa comes every christmas22:28
zerojayGAN900: Be glad. I'm down with the flu. :/22:28
lcuk2but those damned teddy bears hide the evidence22:28
RevdKathylucky ols Santa22:28
Ceronlcuk2: ;__; is that your drawed?22:28
GAN900zerojay, N900 dead, flu for the holidays.22:28
RevdKathyYou have 'flu, serojay? That;s rough22:28
lcuk2Ceron, mmm the rotating sketches yeah22:28
Ceronvery creative22:28
zerojayGAN900: Yep... the gifts keep coming. :)22:28
lcuk2every sketch in liqbase can do it now, the calendar looks funky22:28
GAN900zerojay, I'm beginning to think god hates you for being Canadian. :P22:28
lcuk2liqflow with real stars is cool22:28
Ceronever tought about selling it as art? D:22:29
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zerojayRevdKathy: I haven't worked since last Wednesday.. been over a week now.22:29
Ceronlcuk2: :D22:29
RevdKathyliqflow with stars???22:29
zerojayGAN900: lol. I wanted to cry when I got that e-mail about PR1.1 testing from Daniel.22:29
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lcuk2yeah kath22:29
RevdKathyoh Serojay, I am sorry. Flu is horrid. I had it last Christmas and was off for a fortnight22:29
wazdRevdKathy: shawty :)22:29
lcuk2RevdKathy, thats just so you didnt have to go in work22:30
celestehhey, i have a question about the n900.  If I get one in the US, will it work in the UK on a UK network?22:30
RevdKathyOh the stars!!!! Love it!22:30
GAN900zerojay, ehehe22:30
zerojayI tried going to work yesterday because I felt better, but all my coworkers were running away from me at the office. lol22:30
lcuk2RevdKathy, but it can be any sketch22:30
zerojaySo I chased them around the office for 20 minutes before coming home.22:30
lcuk2tho big ones go slow, i had christmas tress22:30
RevdKathyI love working Christmas - I missed the parties and the carol singing22:30
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zerojayThe building I work in hired carollers.22:31
GAN900zerojay, I also finally got tab on here.22:31
RevdKathyZerojay - you aren't oinking, are you? Not grown a curly tail?22:31
zerojayWas nice... until they scared the living shit out of me in the food court and I dropped my pizza straight to the floor.22:31
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DocScrutinizer51celesteh: yes22:31
RevdKathyWorking for the hospital they don't thank you for turning in infectious - I got sent hom.22:32
zerojayThey were only upstairs and stopped an hour before. They surrounded me and started and I almost pissed myself.22:32
RevdKathywaste of good pizza! zerojay22:32
lcuk2person on the floor below was glas you didnt have an accident22:32
zerojayIt was kind of funny hearing 9 people sing "we're sorrrrryyyyyy."22:32
* lcuk2 lost an n900 earlier22:33
zerojayBad reflash or something, right?22:34
lcuk2no, actually lost it22:34
RevdKathy'lost'? You let it out alone and it couldn't find its way home?22:34
lcuk2i couldnt find it22:34
GAN900lcuk2, can you SSH in? :P22:34
lcuk2GAN900, it was on hspa i didnt know the ip22:34
zerojayI lost a computer like that once.22:35
zerojayCould SSH... didn't know where it was in my apartment though.22:35
Shadikkacat /dev/urandom > /dev/soundcard (whatever it actually is )22:35
lcuk2Shadikka, yeah22:35
zerojayShadikka: That works wonders when the computer has a soundcard, sure.22:35
Shadikkahaha :D22:35
zerojayI only ended up finding it when I moved out.22:36
zerojayBehind a dresser.22:36
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RevdKathymust have been a long way out from the wall22:37
zerojayNo, it was a really slim box.22:38
RevdKathyStill - you'd think you'd have noticed22:38
zerojayYeah, you'd think.22:39
lcuk2everytime he opened the drawers he heard the windows chimes22:39
zerojaylol... haven't used windows at home in over 10 years. ;)22:39
lcuk2must be dark in your house22:39
fralsmy sheevaplug has great potential to be physically lost22:39
RevdKathyI lose all sorts of things... but always know where the technology is22:40
zerojayI lose shit all the time.22:40
zerojayAnd I'm not very organized.22:41
zerojayCleaning my stuff is like a treasure hunt... never know what I'll find.22:41
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zerojayMy work desk had 4 PS2 games, 3 PSP games, the japanese PSP Go camera, two DS games and about a thousand pixelblocks when I cleaned out before my move to Halifax.22:43
melmothlast time i move house, in september, i was cleaning the main table where the computer is. on the bootom of a stack of paper, there was a "welcome to your new appartement" from the electricity company22:43
zerojayThey're like little lego blocks but made specifically to reflect light.22:44
zerojayLet me show you an example or two.22:44
* melmoth love stacks22:44
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zerojayThe Mario ? block and Megaman on my desk there are made of the pixelblocks. I think I have a better pic somewhere.22:45
zerojayOh, little Link is pixelblock also.22:46
* lbt looks at his N900 contacts and calendar appointments on local syncml (egroupware) server and smiles :)22:46
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zashzerojay: nice :D22:46
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RevdKathyok, Time n900 and I recharged. Got a full and long day tomorrow - early start.22:52
RevdKathyG'night all22:52
RevdKathyAnd Merry Christmas!!!!!22:52
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zerojaynighty night22:54
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tealbirdmelmoth: I like stacks too, they're an integral part of most programs22:55
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wepwpavictimhello world22:58
wepwpavictimdoes maemo 5 support 26 character WEP keyed APs?22:58
tealbirdHas anyone gotten esbox working on ubuntu karmic, for me it just hangs with an empty box22:59
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LuciusMarei wanted to download irreco, and i heard its in the "extras-devel" repo. How do  enable it:?23:02
lcuk2wepwpavictim, dunno, but by your nick it sounds like you have been trying to find out23:03
lcuk2LuciusMare, the repository for extras-devel is configured the same way as extras, just with a different folder name.  however there are other dodgy apps there, if you are after a specific thing, grab it and then re-disable your devel23:04
wepwpavictimlcuk2: i'm visiting a home23:04
wepwpavictimthere's a computer which seems to think it's using wep to connect to a router23:04
wepwpavictimmy n900 claims the same AP is WPA, not WEP23:05
wepwpavictimand when i give it the hex password (either all caps, or all lowercase), as written on the AP, and as shown by the web admin ui23:05
wepwpavictimit fails23:05
wepwpavictimi'm wondering if my n900 could be getting confused about WEP v. WPA23:05
LuciusMaren900 has a fm transmitter, do i have to install any extra app?23:06
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lcuk2wepwpavictim, pass totally, never had anything odd wifi connection wise23:07
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wepwpavictimluciusmare: you control the transmitter from settings...23:08
lcuk2also from the menu in media player23:08
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LuciusMareoh, and what is the ur. pf extras23:08
jebbaanyone got a script for finding the biggest offenders in /  ?23:09
LuciusMarewhat is the url of extras_devel?23:09
Arkenoipoorly optified packages hall of shame:  bounce: 21Mb,  vim: 24Mb!, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg: 10Mb, mplayer: 42Mb (omfg!)23:10
wepwpavictimodd, my other phone can't connect to this network either23:10
wepwpavictimArkenoi: write a package to fix those :)23:11
Arkenoiuqm-data: 11Mb23:11
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LuciusMareand, one last thing, what is a good irc cliemt for maemo 5?23:12
RST38hArkenoi: You are wrong I think23:13
AakashPatelI'm wondering the same thing23:13
ifreqLuciusMare: xchat or irssi for starters23:13
RST38hArkenoi: bounce does not thake that much on /23:13
ArkenoiRST38h, that's how kertan's script reports it23:13
RST38hcheck carefully something is wrong23:13
LuciusMarei guess that irssi is also in extras-devel...23:13
GAN900Arkenoi, vim is optified as is uqm.23:15
HukkaLuciusMare: -testing23:15
GAN900I believe Bounce is as well23:16
Arkenoiso it must be the script did not recognize it somehow23:16
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GAN900mplayer hasn't even really been updated for Fremantle.23:16
RST38hwhy don't you write your own script?23:16
RST38hmplayer has been recently optified afaik23:16
ArkenoiRST38h, just becasuse there already was one ;-)23:17
RST38hArkenoi: which apparently did no work.23:17
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LuciusMareso extras-testing?23:17
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HukkaI'm thinking about working on an idle plugin for the comm framework, but have to see if I actually have any time for that23:18
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HukkaI'd really like to get notifications from irc, since 99.9% of my IM conversations happen there23:19
ShadowJKI think I saw idle plugin in extras-devel23:19
HukkaShadowJK: There is one, yes, but based on karma and comments it's completely broken23:19
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fralsim really disliking this random delay my operator has on delivering SMS push messages...23:19
ShadowJKAnd yeah, xchat is there too, but it crashes on settings... I think someone found a patch in fedora's repo or somewhere..23:19
HukkaShadowJK: Another thing is that the goal is to have a separate connection to irc anyway, which is a no go23:19
lcuk2frals :D you found my youtube then23:20
fralsaye, cool vid that was with the rotation23:20
HukkaUnfortunately unlike Jabber and skype, IRC doesn't really handle multiple devices using the same account at the same time...23:20
fralsjust checked twitter.. not watching it that closely :P23:20
HukkaSo I need something that can work with irssi-proxy23:20
DocScrutinizer51Hukka: notifications from IRC? rather simple with xchat23:20
LuciusMareholy... :O23:20
ShadowJKHukka, I use xchat with irssi-proxy23:20
LuciusMare67 percent / filled23:21
HukkaPremade irc clients can't really handle it as well as I'd like23:21
LuciusMarei have like three or five apps installed!23:22
HukkaThe problem with plain irssi-proxy is of course that you see only the messages sent when you are online23:22
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HukkaYou cannot access any backlog, unlike with integrated skype, jabber or email notifications23:22
DocScrutinizer51Hukka: bip23:22
wepwpavictimodd, my mac connects and claims it is indeed wpa-personal23:22
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HukkaDocScrutinizer51: That's new to me. I'll look into it, thanks23:23
ShadowJKI think I tried using dircproxy to replay backlog on reconnect23:23
ShadowJKBut it didn't work out as well as I wanted it to23:23
LuciusMareis 67 percent of / filled a lot or not?23:23
DocScrutinizer51not really23:24
HukkaDocScrutinizer51: Features seem to have what I need. Does it work in practice?23:24
LuciusMareit scared me23:24
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DocScrutinizer51needs a little work to accept time parameter to backlog command23:24
LuciusMarein case of fill-brick,will nokia replace my device?23:24
ShadikkaNow that was nice ;P23:25
ShadikkaForgot to take my USB cable with me -> transferring files with Bluetooth23:25
ShadikkaAround 80% of a 290Mt file, phail23:25
HukkaWhat about xchat, does it handle disconnections well?23:25
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HukkaI mean that if I simply cut the data packet connetion and later put it on, does xchat reconnect automatically?23:25
ShadowJKI'm at 80% too23:25
ShadowJKhm, dunno, I use openvpn to create an always-on path to my server23:26
HukkaShadowJK: USB is dog slow anyway for me, wlan seems to be over 5 times faster23:26
HukkaShadowJK: You keep your connection up always?23:27
HukkaHow many spare batteries do you have :?23:27
ShadowJKI keep it on edge most of the time, it uses far less power than 3g23:27
ShadowJKespecially for irc23:27
HukkaHow can you limit it?23:27
lcuk2how do you force connection type?23:27
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ShadowJKsetup -> phone -> network mode23:28
ShadowJKconnection must be down when you change it23:28
HukkaWhy make it so difficult *sigh*23:28
HukkaSeems like a trivial way to save power23:28
HukkaHm, it has options of dual, 3g and gsm23:29
ShadowJKat home my n900 automatically switches to my wlan, and all my APs do PSM nicely23:29
LuciusMareopenssh client and vim does not seem to be optified at all23:29
ShadowJKyeah gsm is better for irc23:29
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HukkaDoes 3g mean that then it's not possible to use the phone?23:29
lcuki do wifi anyway most of the time, it just might help when roaming the streets23:29
ShadowJKHukka, no you can still use the phone, as long as you are in 3G coverage23:30
HukkaWhy is that option there at all?23:30
HukkaI mean what use is limiting only to 3g23:30
ShadowJKSome people want to lock it to 3g for the better speeds23:30
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HukkaBut surely in dual it uses 3g when available anyway23:31
ShadowJKcontrolled by the operator23:31
HukkaSo they only lock themselves out, if the signal is too bad23:31
ShadowJKIf there's weak 3g signal and strong gsm signal it might prefer gsm23:31
HukkaHm, I see23:31
HukkaThe damn thing rebooted on me, when I was changing settings23:32
ShadowJKhow long have you had yours?23:32
HukkaSince 4.23:32
ShadowJKcat /proc/bootreason when it's back up23:32
HukkaSo 20 days23:33
ShadowJKcat /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets23:34
ShadowJKor something like that..23:34
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LuciusMareopenssh client and vim does not seem to be optified at all23:34
ShadowJKI know that openssh isn't optified for sure23:35
Hukka/usr/bin/ohm-session-agent: 1 /usr/bin/mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-renderer:1 /usr/sbin/browserd -d: 123:35
ShadowJKI think that's restarts23:36
ShadowJKthey don't cause a reset23:36
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ShadikkaI can only wonder... how long until somebody ports emacs? :P And secondly, how the _hell_ would you use it on a N900 (or any other phone for that matter) :D23:36
HukkaShadowJK: Ah, correct23:36
tealbirdI ported uemacs once23:36
ShadowJKIt might have been a kernel OOPS too, in that case /dev/mtd2ro (iirc) will contain the oops (followed by tons of NULLs)23:36
HukkaIt tab-completed to that directly from the folder23:36
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HukkaSo I don't know where I can see resets23:36
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: is that dodcumented anywhere?23:38
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HukkaShadowJK: Well, there's a stacktrace, but can't infer much from it23:39
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer51, it was in the bugzilla bug regarding random reboots23:40
ShadowJKkernel resets on oops, oops get stored in a rotating log in /dev/mtd223:40
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: thanks for the pointer23:40
ShadowJKit should probably be one of hte top bugs if you check out the Bug Jar thread thingy on mailing list or forum :)23:40
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ShadowJKRST38h, hey how do I.. start things..23:41
ShadowJKi found the rom23:41
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: duh how did you mamage THAT?23:41
RST38hShadowJK: simply unpack the rom file to some directory23:41
RST38hShadowJK: and open it when starting colem23:41
ShadowJKI don't know if the game started or not23:42
ShadowJKColecovision\nturn game off\before inserting cartridge\nor expansion module23:42
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GAN900OK, RST38h, voted.23:43
RST38hShadow: that is not started23:43
RST38hGAn: Thanks!23:43
* ShadowJK is lost then :)23:43
RST38hShadow: You should have selected the rom file23:43
RST38ha moment23:43
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* RST38h will put kevtris online23:43
ShadowJKoh wait23:43
ShadowJKI think I picked the zip accidentally ;)23:44
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ShadowJKso how do I press a button23:45
RST38hsame as in all my other emulators23:45
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RST38henable "Show Cues" and see23:45
RST38hkeyboard will work too23:45
ShadowJKI think I managed to hang a key :_)23:46
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LuciusMareirssi looks nice23:48
LuciusMarewait,change,nicks are white on white background23:48
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ifreqluciusmare, you know you can switch the xterminal colors too23:49
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ifreqyellow/green on black is great :P23:49
ShadowJKhm, making it live in /opt would be a pretty painless wouldn't it? Although it's only 250ish k23:49
HukkaHmh, xchat didn't seem that nice23:49
RST38hShadowJK: Both painless and useless I am afraid23:50
HukkaI don't get any notifications, even when I return to the xchat window23:50
ifreqhukka yeah but its nice for fast access if not using ssh/irc/screen23:50
RST38hShadowJK: It is pretty tiny23:50
ShadowJKevery bit helps ;)23:50
Hukkaifreq: I have an icon on my desktop, that opens irssi from the server...23:50
HukkaBut that doesn't autoconnect or anything, when I'm online23:50
HukkaI'd like notifications like I get from skype23:51
ifreqhukka, so why testin xchat then :P23:51
HukkaVibration and everything23:51
Hukkaifreq: Someone said it works for them :)23:51
HukkaI thought that there's at least a visual notification somehow23:51
ifreqLuciusMare: on open xterm, tap Xterminal on top. choose font23:51
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DocScrutinizer51Hukka: huh? which notifications?23:51
ifreqchange bg and fg23:51
HukkaAnd I could have skimped on the vibration, if I get close enough without any work23:51
ifreq ifreq> LuciusMare: on open xterm, tap Xterminal on top. choose font23:52
ifreqand change colours23:52
* ShadowJK clicks the thumbs up and nothing happens23:52
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HukkaDocScrutinizer51: Something that makes me go to the window. Even a big notification that's visible on window changer would work23:52
RST38hShadowJK: probably needs you to log in or something23:53
HukkaBuuuut, I guess I'll still keep the idle plugin on my todo list, hoping that somebody makes a good one sooner than later :)23:53
ShadowJKYeah it did that. Then it dumped me back to the page. Then I click the thumbs up and nothing happens23:53
DocScrutinizer51Hukka: I have a beep and vibrator set up for all notification evens configured in .xchat2/notifyer or sth like that23:53
* RST38h facepalms at maemo.org23:53
ShadowJKI mean, firefox doesn't even react to the click23:54
HukkaDocScrutinizer51: Oh wow. That sounds good23:54
RST38hshadowjk: reload23:54
* RST38h reloads23:54
HukkaDocScrutinizer51: How can you make it vibrate, an external command or is there device support in xchat?23:55
DocScrutinizer51external cmd23:55
RST38hactually, even shift+reload23:55
ShadowJKI did that, no change23:55
HukkaDocScrutinizer51: Where can I find reference on that kind of utilities?23:55
ShadowJKI disabled javascript, and did another shift-reload, and a heart icon appeared below the thumbs up, and report icons appeared next to comments.. heh23:56
HukkaMight be useful to know what else I can do to the device from command line23:56
ShadowJKI clicked the heart. Dunno what it does, and hasn't replied yet :-)23:56
RST38hweird crap...maybe try with..heheh...IE? =)23:57
ifreqorgan testament23:57
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ShadowJKoh it was add to favourite23:57
ShadowJKRST38h, it'd take me a few days to get a XP/Vista/whatever disc shipped and installed?23:58
ShadikkaAlternative Routes of Obtainment (tm)23:58
ShadikkaI mean, like a MSDN membership or such *nodnod*23:58
Shadikkaor Dreamspark if you happen to be a student.23:59
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ShadowJKI'm not23:59

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