IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-12-16

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Milo-	really need to learn how this machine creates and handles alarms	00:00
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Milo-	the alarm clock's lack of cabability in planning ahead bothers me	00:01
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jiajia	do u think there will be a phone better than n900 in one year	00:08
AakashPatel	Always	00:08
jebba	Milo-: check here to see how to make calls from command line: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba dbus section	00:08
AakashPatel	jiajia: of course betting things will come out :P	00:08
jiajia	AakashPatel: but i make a two years contract that i can't change between it	00:09
AbstractW	Then buy an unlocked one.	00:09
AakashPatel	Yeah	00:09
AakashPatel	Thats what i always do	00:10
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jiajia	mine is unlocked , i just need to pay seperately	00:10
jiajia	i think this phone would be good for me in two years	00:10
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Milo-	jebba awesome :D	00:10
Milo-	thanks :D	00:10
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Milo-	jiajia well, this phone isn't perfect	00:11
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Milo-	I have had it for one day and I've found lots of things that needs improving	00:12
Milo-	difference between this and symbian phones how ever is, that you are able to do something about these issues now	00:12
Milo-	unlike with symbian :)	00:12
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jiajia	you are right	00:12
jebba	this fone is a world unto itself :)	00:12
jiajia	it is not perfect yet	00:12
lcuk	jiajia, yes i think there will be a phone better than the n900 in a year	00:13
lcuk	the n900 will be better then than it is now	00:13
returnthis	lcuk: I have disconnected all internet access, made several phone calls and no issues with bt headset at all	00:13
Milo-	oh dear, -testing branch has openttd! :D	00:14
returnthis	so I will try again with wifi on	00:14
jiajia	i really hope so, but anyway i just love the linux termnal	00:14
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lcuk	returnthis, then do you fancy trying it now with wifi - that way you have some test data to either extend the bug report, or file a new one with	00:14
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* lcuk never has problems with calls		00:15
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ifreq	is there any way to update contact data on phone via mac osx?	00:16
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ifreq	need to add huge load of email addr /msn etc to contacts	00:16
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nezb	anyone have suggestions for the best N900 screen protector?	00:20
timeless_mbp	ifreq: update or import?	00:20
therock	nezb: well dont buy the one from protection films	00:20
therock	its no matt in the cover	00:21
ifreq	timeless_mbp: update	00:21
lcuk	nezb, common sense and a clean room environment	00:21
timeless_mbp	http://www.apple.com/pro/tips/sharing_vcards.html	00:21
AbstractW	Earlier, this was suggested: https://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/nokia-n900-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php	00:22
timeless_mbp	unlike outlook, we support multiple cards per file	00:22
timeless_mbp	merging is um, ... dunno	00:22
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nezb	AbstractW: can you attest to their quality?	00:22
ifreq	hmm ok thanks	00:22
timeless_mbp	you can try exporting your entire db from the n900, importing to addressbook, merging there, and then deleting everything from your n900 and importing an export from addressbook :)	00:22
AbstractW	Not yet, I ordered it though, on the recommendation of someone else in here.	00:22
nezb	AbstractW: hmm, alright. hopefully it turns out good. did you get the full or just the screen sheet?	00:23
ifreq	timeless_mbp: yeh guess so :)	00:23
AbstractW	full.	00:23
nezb	AbstractW: direct from them or through a reseller like Amazon?	00:24
AbstractW	direct	00:24
Milo-	cool, GPE Calendar > nokia calendar :)	00:24
jon1012	is there a list of "ok to use" extras-devel apps ?	00:24
nezb	AbstractW: thanks for the info :)	00:24
AbstractW	My phone should get here on friday, and so should my shield.	00:24
nezb	AbstractW: cool. congrats!	00:25
jon1012	(for n900 by the way)	00:25
AbstractW	Yeah, amazon has a $550 N900, with a $50 rebate currently.	00:25
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AbstractW	nezb: Their guarantee is pretty good, actually.	00:26
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nezb	AbstractW: so it seems. it better be good for $25!	00:26
AbstractW	I hope so.	00:26
ifreq	timeless_mbp: seems http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/isync supports n900 too	00:27
ifreq	going to test now	00:27
nezb	ifreq: Sweet! Been waiting for that	00:27
timeless_mbp	interesting	00:27
jon1012	(fyi, the insurance I pay for my n900 is 16 euros monthly here in france)	00:27
AbstractW	holy crap, thats expensive.	00:27
timeless_mbp	ifreq: eh?	00:27
timeless_mbp	search doesn't list it	00:27
g^	Perhaps somebody can help me with n900 & active sync. Our company uses lotus inotes that is "mail for exchange" compatible and I quess everything would work ok, except that the 'server' prompt does not allow to enter /lotus/traveler after the server name. Now, does anyone have any idea to which config file these settings are saved?	00:28
Milo-	aw, GPE can't import from maemo calendar	00:29
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Milo-	what a pity :(	00:29
SpeedEvil	AbstractW: how much do you pay?	00:29
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SpeedEvil	I've been looking at accidental damage cover - it's ~70euro/year in the UK	00:29
red	anyone know if we are getting a pc suite version which can handle sending sms via phone?	00:30
red	the n900 that is	00:30
AbstractW	SpeedEvil: I don't have insurance. I'm in the US, and purchased an unlocked phone directly.	00:30
nezb	Coupon Code for ZAGG screen protector PROTECT20 (20% off)	00:31
AbstractW	But, for me it was $4/mo for accidental damage cover on my iphone through ATT	00:31
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AbstractW	nezb: Damnit, I should have used that :P	00:31
therock	i pay 5euro for damage and lost	00:31
SpeedEvil	AbstractW: that covers you for expensive phones?	00:31
SpeedEvil	AbstractW: oh	00:31
nezb	AbstractW: can you have them adjust your order?	00:32
AbstractW	nezb: I doubt it, seems to have already been charged.	00:32
Klowner	AbstractW: there was a 50% thing yesterday :(	00:32
AbstractW	heh.	00:32
nezb	50%?	00:32
Klowner	at zagg, ya	00:32
ifreq	timeless_mbp: yeah it doesnt, misread.. ffs.	00:32
jon1012	(is the flashlight app safe ?)	00:33
ifreq	i can drop vcards thats for sure.. but no real syncs	00:33
SpeedEvil	jon1012: yes.	00:33
SpeedEvil	jon1012: it is safe to run the LEDs at low power forever	00:33
nezb	Klowner: was there a promo code?	00:33
SpeedEvil	jon1012: It is considerably dimmer than the flash.	00:33
jon1012	ok	00:33
AbstractW	I'm just looking forward to real rsync.	00:33
jon1012	and flashlight use that dimmer level ?	00:33
Klowner	nezb: nope, just everything 50% off	00:34
crashanddie	jon1012: that's a lot of insurance	00:34
nezb	Klowner: darn. oh well, $20 + $3 shipping isn't that bad...	00:34
SpeedEvil	jon1012: yes - as I understand it	00:34
crashanddie	jon1012: if you pay that insurance for 2 years you'll have paid for half the phone extra	00:34
jon1012	crashanddie: I know :(	00:34
Klowner	nezb: ya, not too bad	00:34
crashanddie	jon1012: en d'autres termes: tu te fais arnaquer mon cochon ;)	00:34
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: are you likely to drop it in a toilet forex.	00:35
jon1012	crashanddie: in france the phone is 650 euros	00:35
nezb	still a rip if you consider it is a piece of plastic ...	00:35
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: I would have said I was normally very careful with phones, but today I threw the n900 across the room.	00:35
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: slippery case, and cold fingers.	00:35
crashanddie	nezb: you pay $2 for a bottle of plastic filled with brown water -- which recipe hasn't changed in the past 150 years	00:35
nezb	crashanddie: but that tastes so delicious! I love Dr.Pepper	00:36
lcuk	SpeedEvil, self adhesic rubber patch on the back is useful in that scenario	00:36
SpeedEvil	lcuk: yes, that scenario.	00:36
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: I have a better solution	00:36
SpeedEvil	lcuk: not others.	00:36
lcuk	wiimote straps	00:36
SpeedEvil	lcuk: wouldn't have helped at all - I was picking it up	00:37
lcuk	padded cell	00:37
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crashanddie	SpeedEvil: if you throw things around as you try to pick them up, I think you need to go on an anger-management course	00:37
crashanddie	:P	00:37
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lcuk	prevent both problems	00:37
Klowner	I wonder if I can watch tv on my n900	00:38
crashanddie	oh there's my... FOR FUCK'S SAKE AAAAAAARRRGGHHHH	00:38
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b0unc3	hey guys, which is the right substitute of hildon_font_selection_dialog_new() (the api doc said it's deprecated now) ?	00:38
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: It slipped out of my hands - and I tried to catch it the wrong way.	00:38
SpeedEvil	lcuk: I would like a padded cell - if it was nice and insulated	00:38
crashanddie	Klowner: as long as you can stream tv to the N900, sure	00:38
lcuk	it comes with a special overcoat too!	00:38
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crashanddie	how do you handle the keyboard opening?	00:39
lcuk	a uniform so to speak	00:39
Klowner	crashanddie: ya, except it's HD, I suspect 1920x1080 might make it explode. Worth trying though, if I can figure out how	00:39
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crashanddie	lorelei^_: why does a guy have a woman's name as nickname?	00:40
crashanddie	Klowner: apply a tenfold filter, should do fine then	00:41
AakashPatel	hmm i have an H.264 MP4 video	00:41
AakashPatel	and its not playin on the device :/	00:41
AakashPatel	any ideas?	00:41
worluk	could anyone point me to a better suited channel (unless someone can help me here :) )? Got an N900 some days ago, and im only getting a dark nokia logo, with short vibration in long intervals	00:41
crashanddie	AakashPatel: our balls ain't made out of crystal?	00:41
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crashanddie	worluk: have you tried leaving it plugged in to the charger for some time?	00:42
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nezb	worluk: I get that sometimes when I leave it plugged into the charger	00:42
AakashPatel	crashanddie: lol well it was playin on my comp	00:42
AakashPatel	so i didnt know if it was the vid or something else	00:42
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crashanddie	AakashPatel: can my pet have a disease?	00:42
worluk	yeah, but it is supposed to vibrate, and switch the status light on and off each time it vibrates during loading?	00:43
crashanddie	worluk: actually, when you turn it on it does exactly that	00:43
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crashanddie	worluk: it just doesn't do it multiple times at a time -- just once	00:43
worluk	well, once, yea, but it doesnt stop	00:43
AakashPatel	ssure why not	00:43
nezb	Dell has the N900 for $550	00:43
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crashanddie	AakashPatel: give us more details, do you get an error message? What info do you get from mplayer? What exact codec are you using? How big is the file? etc, etc	00:44
henningms	Does the USB charging work properly? I had it in for a long time, it said it was charging but then it just died :) hehe	00:44
henningms	N900*	00:45
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pupnik	crashanddie is someone who knows about most of the cool tech on the planet	00:45
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pupnik	people are only like that at 22	00:46
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AakashPatel	lol	00:46
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crashanddie	pupnik: actually, I'm not 22 ;)	00:46
ifreq	henningms: should work ok	00:46
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AakashPatel	crashanddie: Its 800MB's and it says Unable to play media, Media Format not supported	00:47
worluk	hm, when i hold the power button, the status light fades in white...	00:47
pupnik	i make a joke	00:47
worluk	and the screen lights up with the logo	00:48
pupnik	thank you, worluk	00:48
crashanddie	worluk: yeah, it works better when you turn it on	00:48
ifreq	AakashPatel: tested with mplayer too?	00:48
crashanddie	pupnik: I'm 23 :)	00:48
worluk	well, it goes dark after a while again	00:48
crashanddie	worluk: yeah, seems like your battery is drained	00:48
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worluk	hm, ok, then i guess i will leave it plugged for a while, but the vibrating puzzles me	00:49
AakashPatel	Idk what codec its using	00:50
AakashPatel	(how do i check?)	00:50
worluk	and i was under the impression that the status light is supposed to blink during loading	00:50
crashanddie	AakashPatel: use mplayer, 3rd time we're asking you	00:50
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crashanddie	worluk: leave it for another hour or two, if it still toasts like that, ask again -- you might have a faulty unit	00:50
Arkenoi	funny enough,it seems that almost no one says that n900 size is "just ok". About half of the people complain that it is too big and another half (including me) say it is too small ;-)	00:50
worluk	dont say that :/	00:50
worluk	;)	00:50
worluk	will do	00:51
worluk	ty	00:51
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AakashPatel	:P you didnt ask me to use mplayer	00:51
crashanddie	AakashPatel: yes, we did	00:51
crashanddie	<crashanddie> AakashPatel: give us more details, do you get an error message? What info do you get from mplayer <ifreq> AakashPatel: tested with mplayer too?	00:51
AakashPatel	Oh :P i didnt see that second part	00:52
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AakashPatel	what repo is mplayer in	00:52
crashanddie	then at least apologise to ifreq, you completely ignored him :(	00:52
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AakashPatel	ifreq: i'm terribly sorry ifreq :)	00:52
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crashanddie	thank you :)	00:52
crashanddie	dunno which repo mplayer is in	00:53
AakashPatel	eh i just enabled devel	00:53
AakashPatel	still loading	00:53
AakashPatel	yea its in here	00:53
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AakashPatel	installling	00:54
SpeedEvil	What's the name of the screen brightness applet - I'm blanking.	00:54
SpeedEvil	And I can'f find it in the app-list	00:54
* frals just got cockblocked by the fire department		00:54
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frals	im in my boxers on the couch, all of a sudden the fire department rings the door bell "excuse me madame, you dont happen to have a fire going are you?"... im in my gfs apartment	00:55
red	Arkenoi: I'll say the n900 size is just ok, but the unlock slider, volume button and off button are too small :p	00:55
AakashPatel	oh god thi video plays slow in mplayer	00:55
red	they should be proportionally bulky as the device itself hehe	00:55
red	frals: they called you a madame thru the door or after seeing you on ur boxers?	00:56
frals	they called my gf that ;)	00:56
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red	oh, i was ready to tell you to work on your manboobs :>	00:56
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jon1012	ugh... I had no space left on root partition, and I moved /usr/share to /home/share and did a link so the files where accessible on the other part...	00:57
jon1012	the device rebooted and doesn't want to boot again	00:57
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jon1012	anyone knows what I could do to recover from that ?	00:58
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frals	red: my manboobs are fine thank you very much :D	00:58
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jon1012	in case someone who was in the netsplit can help :	00:59
jon1012	ugh... I had no space left on root partition, and I moved /usr/share to /home/share and did a link so the files where accessible on the other part... the device rebooted and doesn't want to boot again. anyone knows what I could do to recover from that ?	00:59
RolaBlade	Hi... anyone here know how or where I can find information on how to install maemo sdk on Arch Linux? Thanks	01:00
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SpeedEvil	With falsies on?	01:05
SpeedEvil	oh - to her.	01:05
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jebba	jon1012: nothing comes to mind apart from flashing it. hmm	01:10
jon1012	:(	01:10
jon1012	why on earth did they do such a small root partition ? :(	01:10
jon1012	everyone in forums tell to move folders to home and do links to them	01:10
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ifreq	i wouldnt :-P	01:11
n900ev1l	/ is on a fast 256m device	01:11
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jon1012	I guess I'll have to flash :(	01:12
Milo-	ehm what..	01:12
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Milo-	root is already full ._·	01:13
jebba	Milo-: it fills up quickly if you install lots from -testing or -devel	01:13
jon1012	Milo-: my root was full so I moved thins in home and did links	01:13
jon1012	things*	01:13
Milo-	jebba apparently so :P	01:13
jon1012	then... reboot and no way the device could boot again	01:14
Milo-	only downloaded two packages from testing	01:14
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FIReun	anyone know why the maemo python doesnt like "from xml.sax.handler import ContentHandler"	01:14
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jon1012	if I flash will it erase MyDocs partition ?	01:15
jebba	jon1012: although that does sound like something that should be possible. Perhaps you set up the symlink wrong (?) or something from /usr/share is needed early in the boot before mounting your homedir	01:15
jebba	jon1012: flash does not erase /home/user just erases the 256M partition	01:15
jon1012	ok	01:15
jon1012	cool	01:15
ifreq	i wouldnt go for symlinking.. fatal :P	01:15
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jebba	/opt is a symlink too...	01:15
Milo-	so hmm	01:16
jon1012	flashed...	01:16
ifreq	opt is prob not needed on boot	01:16
Milo-	why is / so small :o	01:16
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Milo-	oh well, some minor fstabbing :)	01:17
jebba	Milo-: due to having to do a flash recovery if things go to hell	01:17
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Milo-	jebba but still.. 512 would have been nice :P	01:18
ifreq	Milo-: nothing shouldnt be installed under root directly anyways	01:18
SpeedEvil	256 or 512 is irrelevant	01:18
SpeedEvil	the right solution would be to install all apps on the 2G	01:18
Milo-	well package manager installs everything under root :P	01:18
SpeedEvil	and set it up so that worked from day 0	01:18
ifreq	Milo-: lies	01:18
* jon1012 curses himself for not having done save often		01:18
jebba	ya. apparently 512M ones weren't available in volume either (so i heard here)	01:19
Milo-	ifreq ._·	01:19
wolf^	anyone knows why nokia didn't used small root + big /usr instead of using opt?	01:19
SpeedEvil	you're going to put a 32G / in	01:19
SpeedEvil	/mmc in	01:19
jebba	wolf^: for reasons of flash recovery AFAICT	01:19
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SpeedEvil	a 512 vs 256 flash is just extra cost	01:19
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Milo-	hmm so is there a way of making all the packages to install in home rather than / ?	01:24
cehteh	search the wiki/docs for 'optify'	01:25
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jon1012	ok guys good night :)	01:27
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oscillik	just wanted to say hi, and that i'll (hopefully) be a first time Maemo user in about a week - just in time for Christmas!	01:41
ifreq	lets keep thumbs up then	01:41
jebba	Milo-: the official answer is that apps should install to /opt, and if they don't they are broken (except for key OS applications)	01:41
oscillik	thanks :)	01:41
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Milo-	jebba can't /usr/share be moved to /opt and then just create a symbolic link to /usr/share?	01:43
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jebba	you can try it ;)	01:43
ifreq	http://gizmodo.com/5346818/nokia-n900-maemo-is-a-phone-makes-the-n97-look-silly can someone go to 0:24 on video and tell me what app/shortcuts are made to desktop?	01:44
Milo-	or I can bind it with mount	01:44
Milo-	or manually link some biggies	01:45
Milo-	like ovi maps	01:45
oscillik	ifreq: Web / Media Player / Calendar / Photos / Contacts / Phone / Maps / Camera / E-Mail / Conversations /Clock / Calculator / App Manager / Settings / Applications	01:46
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ifreq	oscillik: looking on the right spot aye? :P	01:46
ifreq	was interested about the spot where guy had friends faces on the desktop..	01:47
SpeedEvil	ifreq: why?	01:47
SpeedEvil	you can do that with contact	01:47
SpeedEvil	s	01:47
oscillik	you said apps on the desktop, that's at 0:22	01:47
oscillik	at 0:24, there is a bookmarks screen from the web browser	01:47
ifreq	SpeedEvil: yeh that i wanted to know thanks	01:47
ifreq	oscillik: ok wasnt on mine :P	01:47
ifreq	or well.. it just changed	01:47
ifreq	on the 0:24	01:47
oscillik	ifreq: weird, we're both watching the same video :-/	01:47
ifreq	on 0:25 it changes to another screen	01:48
SpeedEvil	ifreq: contacts app, select a contact -> add shortcut -> add to desktop	01:48
ifreq	SpeedEvil: yeah thanks. thats useful for me	01:48
SpeedEvil	ifreq: then you can drag it into the right place later on the desktop manager	01:48
ifreq	yeh yeh	01:48
SpeedEvil	you need to set a pic of course	01:48
ifreq	btw anyone ported conky yet? :)	01:49
ifreq	yes	01:49
ifreq	been updating my friends pics lately.. :)	01:49
oscillik	i wouldn't like to run conky on my N900 - will eat battery power	01:49
SpeedEvil	http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=23121	01:50
SpeedEvil	ifreq:	01:50
ifreq	yes going there sir	01:50
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shakkazombie	is there a way to run a single command as root like rootsh traceroute google.com?	01:51
shakkazombie	dont want to/cant use sudo gainroot in this instance	01:51
AakashPatel	root maybe?	01:52
wolf^	shakkazombie, edit /etc/sudoers?	01:52
shakkazombie	thats like gainroot	01:52
shakkazombie	oh crap, sudoers	01:52
oscillik	quick question for those who have an N900 - is the keyboard backlit, like on the E90?	01:52
SpeedEvil	The 'running out of battery' noise is like a depressed owl?	01:52
SpeedEvil	oscillik: backlit	01:52
AakashPatel	What does rootsh do to make root possible w/o R&D mode/	01:52
SpeedEvil	oscillik: dunno if like	01:53
SpeedEvil	oscillik: all the letters illuminate	01:53
oscillik	SpeedEvil: awesome :) i was hoping it would be backlit, thanks for clarifying	01:53
shakkazombie	thanks wolf^ didnt think of that, completely slipped my mind	01:53
SpeedEvil	oscillik: works well in the absolute dark, or anywhere between	01:53
SpeedEvil	to sun	01:53
oscillik	must say, after being a Psion user, Symbian user, and Android user, i'm faily excited to get my hands on this	01:54
oscillik	i'll still use my Psion though :p	01:54
oscillik	got rid of my ADP1 months and months ago	01:54
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SpeedEvil	hmm. xchat on a busy channel - with it locked on 3G - it's making noises at me to indicate it's nearly out - after only 1h from 30% bat	01:55
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oscillik	from my experience using IRC clients on both my Noka E90 and my ADP1 when i had it, IRC does tend to eat battery while connected by 3G	01:56
oscillik	*Nokia	01:56
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SpeedEvil	trying to find 'worst case's	01:59
SpeedEvil	other than obvious.	01:59
SpeedEvil	(bright screen playing a movie over 3g say	01:59
SpeedEvil	with flash	01:59
eitreach	Are there any interesting repositories available, other than the extras-testing and extras-devel?	02:00
red	thats a recipe for disaster	02:00
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SpeedEvil	disaster at a low level.	02:01
SpeedEvil	worst-case you reflash	02:01
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red	for batterylife i ment	02:05
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pupnik	eitreach: thank cthulhu, no	02:09
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pupnik	i think we could do voice control	02:10
pupnik	limited dictionary, no continuous speech	02:10
SpeedEvil	ah	02:11
red	id very much like voice control for initiating phonecalls	02:11
red	and/or starting phonecalles in "speaker" state	02:11
red	like hold camera button when camera lid is closed and say speaker + contactname	02:11
AakashPatel	How do i tether this thing to my mac	02:11
pupnik	i have a great book on practical neural netowks for precisely this	02:12
red	AakashPatel: plug it with usb cable and set pc suite mode first	02:12
AakashPatel	Okay	02:12
red	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=427886	02:12
pupnik	but the only fuckers who have money to blow on this is the US military	02:12
red	then go to step 3 and continue	02:12
pupnik	heh	02:13
red	:D	02:13
red	perhaps they would contribute!	02:13
pupnik	i know potheads who got DoD money for their whallucinations	02:14
ifreq	http://www.lcarscom.net/sounds.htm <-- for some system sounds :)	02:17
ifreq	still waiting lcars from past 770 to be ported on n900	02:17
ifreq	(mayb daydreaming only)	02:17
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oscillik	ifreq: the N900 doesn't support standard .wav or .mp3 files for system audio sounds?	02:18
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ifreq	oscillik: sure about it?	02:21
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oscillik	ifreq: you've confused me. i asked you a question, but you answered with an ambiguous question	02:21
ifreq	oscillik: seems i can add atleast mp3s to sms etc..	02:21
ifreq	oscillik: yeh well i was allready quite sure it supports	02:22
pupnik	any geerman n900 users here?	02:22
ifreq	so you made me unsure :P	02:22
ifreq	anyways checked, atleast mp3s work	02:22
oscillik	oh right, it's just that you said that you hoped that the lcars sounds from 770 to be ported to the N900	02:22
ifreq	nope, the lcars theme/desktop	02:22
oscillik	surely if the sounds are originally wav or MP3 files, you wouldn't need to have sounds ported	02:22
oscillik	ahhh	02:23
oscillik	i see	02:23
oscillik	sorry for the confusion	02:23
AakashPatel	heh	02:23
AakashPatel	when i enter the info on the computer for tethering	02:23
ifreq	:) np mayb my bad choise of words	02:23
AakashPatel	the connect button gets greyed out	02:23
AakashPatel	so i cant click it >.<	02:23
Sir_Lancelot	hi guys	02:23
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Sir_Lancelot	besides maemo.org, where can find software for the n900 (also besides Ovi Store)	02:23
Sir_Lancelot	?	02:23
AakashPatel	The Ovi Store is live?	02:24
luke-jr	Sir_Lancelot: probably nowhere	02:24
Sir_Lancelot	sh*t :(	02:24
Sir_Lancelot	are you sure?	02:24
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ifreq	from <insert random dev site here>	02:24
AakashPatel	Sir_Lancelot: why do you ask?	02:25
Sir_Lancelot	because, apps arenever too much	02:25
Sir_Lancelot	and the repos that I have are quite limited...	02:25
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AakashPatel	why would they have the app manager thing, if theyre gonna have ovi store soon?	02:26
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jshupe	I just got off the phone with Amazon, even though their website says my phone will ship tomorrow they claim "to have no idea when the item will be in". :/	02:26
andre__	AakashPatel, because Ovi Store is for commercial apps, while App Manager is for community apps (that are for free)	02:27
AakashPatel	ah	02:27
andre__	Sir_Lancelot: there is the Extras repository (by default enabled in App Manager), and there are repositories for unstable and risky apps that might need more testing. If you like to live on the edge you can enable Extras-testing and Extras-devel, but applications may drain your battery and other bad things	02:28
andre__	you've ben warned :)	02:28
Sir_Lancelot	:)	02:29
Sir_Lancelot	thanks\	02:29
Sir_Lancelot	I have it already ;)	02:29
Elerion	my rootfs on n900 is totally full and i can not even do dpkg -P. what can i do to free some space?	02:29
ifreq	http://dindinx.net/hotbabe/download.php <-- any idea can hotbabe be ported to maemo easily(not a coder or dev so no clue myself)	02:30
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ifreq	Elerion: uninstall some apps via app manager, dont install so much stuff from testing/devel as they prob will fill up your root disk.	02:30
Elerion	ifreq: tried... it fails	02:31
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AakashPatel	Hm, who here has tethered with mac	02:31
red	didnt that thread work for u	02:32
AakashPatel	No, for some reason the "Connect" button keeps getting greyed out as soon as i enter the *99# stuff	02:33
red	:/	02:33
red	perhaps register and post a question	02:33
AakashPatel	eh i should	02:34
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timeless_mbp	sp3000: speaking of fun map points	02:35
timeless_mbp	saana, yemen is in the news	02:35
timeless_mbp	there's a civil war there	02:35
timeless_mbp	maybe someday nokia will be able to find it on a map..	02:35
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andre__	Elerion, delete User manuals	02:36
Elerion	where are they?	02:36
andre__	for reference, this is https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450	02:36
povbot	Bug 5450: Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space	02:36
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andre__	Elerion, More > File Manager > Nokia N 900 > Documents > User Guides	02:36
andre__	hmm. they are smaller than I thought :-/	02:37
jebba	OK, well, now that i have a console on my device at boot, at least I know what it's doing when it hangs on boot with the dots like: * () * *	02:37
jebba	MALF	02:37
andre__	Elerion, and "maemo_software_copyright.pdf" is 285kB. hmm. :-/	02:37
Elerion	guides are not under rootfs	02:38
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GAN900	andre__, how did bugday go?	02:46
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andre__	GAN900, still running :)	02:47
andre__	quite nice, but haven't seen much new people. should probably have a topic next time	02:48
andre__	as "do what you want and ask if there's questions" is probably a bit overwhelming :)	02:48
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GAN900	andre__, isn't there a #maemp-bugs?	02:49
GAN900	Oh, crap	02:49
GAN900	No wonder.	02:49
FIReun	installed maemo-control on my n770 running 2008he - trying the control panel "usb networking" applet, it says "USB mode is not writable"	02:49
GAN900	Typo fail	02:50
FIReun	a cursory google search finds nothing, any suggestions?	02:50
GAN900	andre__, a proper agenda couldn't hurt.	02:50
andre__	GAN900, yeah. next time :)	02:50
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* GAN900 is running a new user test program with his DDP device.		02:55
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SpeedEvil	?	02:56
SpeedEvil	what's that	02:56
red	developer device thingy?	02:57
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SpeedEvil	new user test program	02:58
DocScrutinizer51	no test on this user	02:58
GAN900	SpeedEvil, finding new users and having them test the N900	02:59
SpeedEvil	ah	02:59
* SpeedEvil wonders how many the average is before someone runs off with it.		02:59
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SpeedEvil	GAN900: What percentage of them read the on-device-manual? 80%, 90%?	03:00
DocScrutinizer51	so no new user here anyway. phooo... safe	03:00
GAN900	SpeedEvil, so far? Zero.	03:00
SpeedEvil	Shocking.	03:00
SpeedEvil	:)	03:00
GAN900	SpeedEvil, people I know, by the way. ;)	03:00
* DocScrutinizer51 thinks manual is quite hard to find		03:01
GAN900	It's in the box.	03:01
DocScrutinizer51	duh THAT flyer	03:02
DocScrutinizer51	thought you talk about the thing in myDocs	03:02
GAN900	They're the same. :P	03:03
SpeedEvil	I did	03:03
SpeedEvil	they aren't	03:03
SpeedEvil	hahahahaahhahahaha	03:03
DocScrutinizer51	definitely different	03:03
* SpeedEvil notes that GAN900 diddn't read the manual.		03:03
* SpeedEvil sighs.		03:03
GAN900	SpeedEvil, did, actually. :)	03:04
GAN900	Filled about a dozen bugs on it, too. :)	03:04
lcuk	i had a read through the gettign started tonight	03:04
SpeedEvil	if you think that, and the thing in the box is identical, you diddn't	03:04
SpeedEvil	the getting started	03:04
GAN900	Only glanced at the one in the box, though.	03:04
SpeedEvil	oh - right	03:04
GAN900	Said "User Manual" on the first page.	03:04
SpeedEvil	the thing in the box - for example - doesn't mention the default lock code	03:04
Arkenoi	finding pdf manual is described in the paper booklet you get with the phone	03:05
Arkenoi	i don't see any problem with it	03:05
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: nah GAN900 never had a look at the paper ;-D	03:05
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SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: yes - as is the 'getting started' video	03:05
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: and the getting started video - if you watch it without internet - when you come to the end, and click 'view more guides' - gives you a blank web browser	03:05
SpeedEvil	I assumed - not unreasonably - at that point - that there wasn't any more guides.	03:05
GAN900	SpeedEvil, have you filed any bugs? :)	03:06
SpeedEvil	yes, on that issue	03:06
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SpeedEvil	and on some others	03:06
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DocScrutinizer51	anybody toss me a short instruction how to talk AT to modem? which tty, which prog to use?	03:13
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Mousey	minicom	03:15
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rlinfati	i request a invitation for submit a extras-devel and a project in garage.... how much need wait for it? ( i make my first app in qt... a google latitude updater )	03:16
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rlinfati	and.... libqt4-maemo5 will be in extras ? ( not sure if goingo to use libqt4 or libqt4-maemo5 )	03:18
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DocScrutinizer51	Mousey: thanks. Hoped to hear that advice. Any idea about which tty to use?	03:31
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ryoohki	anyone know the md5sum of RX-48_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin?	04:01
ryoohki	that's for the wimax edition n810	04:02
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microlith	mm, time to reflash (again)	04:04
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microlith	at least it's (relatively) painless	04:05
arachnist	are contacts data/history/settings backed-up properly?	04:06
microlith	yes	04:07
microlith	bit of a necessity in this state	04:08
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jebba	DocScrutinizer51: or someone can please `dpkg -l getbootstate` for me?	04:17
jebba	microlith: why need to reflash?	04:17
DocScrutinizer51	jebba: ??	04:17
ryoohki	is there a way to verify RX-48_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin? i downloaded the wimax edition n810 image and i'd like to verify it	04:18
jebba	DocScrutinizer51: can you run that on your system, i just want to see the version that is on a stock system (which is what you are running i assume).	04:18
microlith	jebba: because after enough stupid 32wd_to reboots, eventually it just stops booting	04:18
jebba	that's a lowercase L, not an i, by the wway.	04:18
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microlith	it gets to the 5 dots and gets stuck on the 2nd (with the backlight off)	04:18
microlith	and extras-devel seems to be inaccessible to me	04:19
jebba	microlith: you have this problem exactly, I bet:	04:19
red	anyone awake that knows Java and Serializing objects into files?	04:19
jebba	http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/MALF/dsc_0326.jpg	04:19
jebba	http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/MALF/dsc_0340.jpg	04:19
microlith	jebba: hey, that looks familiar	04:19
jebba	anyway, can someone just run " dpkg -l getbootstate " for me please? uh, and gimme the output ;) (just version number needed)	04:20
microlith	I assume MALF = malformed	04:20
jebba	microlith: exactly. How full was your drive?	04:20
microlith	jebba: I had at least 65MB free	04:20
jebba	oh.	04:20
* microlith has been careful		04:20
DocScrutinizer51	jebba: dpkg -l getbootstate`	04:20
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DocScrutinizer51	grr c+0 error	04:20
DocScrutinizer51	i getbootstate 1.0.35+0m5	04:21
microlith	ditto	04:21
jebba	DocScrutinizer51: thx	04:21
microlith	jebba: well that would explain why it fails to boot after enough reboots	04:22
microlith	that strikes me as merely a symptom of the larger problem	04:23
lcuk	andre__, i need liqbase bugs entry please, with classic,library,apps as components available to use. how would I go about it ?	04:23
* red is melting due java.io.NotSerializableException		04:24
andre__	lcuk, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad#What_applications_maintainers_should_know	04:25
jebba	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019 microlith	04:26
povbot	Bug 7019: Please release source code to getbootstate	04:26
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GAN900	wazd, ping?	04:28
andre__	heh.	04:28
* andre__ tries to find out about getbootstate		04:28
andre__	yeah, it's closed	04:29
andre__	found it in the internal list	04:29
* jebba weeps		04:29
andre__	which is quite ridiculous, given that it's basically only three source files :-P	04:29
jebba	andre__: well, the "second dot lit" thing that I saw at 98% full microlith claims to be seeing with 65M full...	04:29
jebba	andre__: any clue about "reset count". Watchdog? Number of reboots? wa?	04:30
andre__	no clue, sorry :-/	04:30
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jebba	ok, not much else i can do with it i suppose. reflashing....	04:36
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DocScrutinizer51	andre__: almost all closed source is plain ridiculous, considering we can always reverse engineer and it doesn't contain any patent worthy hyper new ideas. Keeping the copyright and simply not GPL it would suffice completely to protect Nokia's interests	04:40
andre__	DocScrutinizer-8, context?	04:40
andre__	bug 7019 maybe? :)	04:40
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019 Release source code of "getbootstate"	04:40
DocScrutinizer51	maemo	04:40
andre__	ah	04:41
andre__	sorry. I mixed up channels	04:41
DocScrutinizer51	andre__: e.g. dialer/contacts	04:41
* andre__ should not work for more than 12 hours probably :-P		04:41
jebba	microlith: how do you know it's a 32wd_to reboot? So are you getting spontaneous reboots? (I'm assumign that's what 32wd_to is right?)	04:41
jebba	andre__: i have ;)	04:42
andre__	DocScrutinizer51: nowadays by default new apps should always be open source if there are no competitive or 3rd party reasons, if I remember correctly	04:42
andre__	but past was different...	04:42
DocScrutinizer51	andre__: really great news	04:42
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andre__	I'm not sure with that	04:43
DocScrutinizer51	:-)	04:43
andre__	but I think it is	04:43
andre__	it's complicated	04:43
* andre__ once again links to http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages		04:43
DocScrutinizer51	andre__: thanks for pointer. I have to confess I had too few reading of wiki yet	04:45
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jebba	weird, /sbin/bootstate appears to be free (now?) but not getbootstate? I wonder if that's just oversight. https://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsm/ It's just in svn now.	04:50
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jebba	"getbootstate: Houston, we have a problem, powering off..." Next line: "Welcome to your upstart powered internet tablet." heh	04:52
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jebba	actually the reset count can't be a watchdog, because that loads later on in the boot AFAICT	04:54
Guest96848	how can i add something to PATH on fremantle for the user user?	04:54
jebba	edit ~/.profile add line with PATH=$PATH:/home/user/bin or whatever. IIRC	04:57
jebba	have to log in & out for it to take effect, or perhaps just run:	04:58
jebba	. ~/.profile (note: period then space then ~/.profile).. That should do it.	04:58
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Guest96848	sadly there is no ~/.profile - checked that too	05:01
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v2px	no ~/.*rc either	05:02
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jebba	v2px: just create a new .profile	05:04
jebba	doesn't have to be there already	05:04
v2px	ah ok so its executed on login. wasnt sure about that and too lazy to figure it out myself. thx :P	05:04
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jebba	andre__: microlith !!!!! I was able to reboot without reflashing! I just set the thing to R&D mode. sudo ./flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode	05:10
jebba	It came back up fine! :)	05:10
dmj7261	zaheerm: lcuk: GAN900: how is the video editing concept going?	05:11
andre__	uh? nice	05:11
jebba	andre__: ya, so there is defintely something else going on with people seeing * () * *	05:11
jebba	...	05:11
lcuk	jebba, get that report into the bug report asap..	05:11
andre__	jebba, feel free to comment on your bug report about that. weird	05:12
andre__	hehe	05:12
andre__	lcuk shares my mind :)	05:12
lcuk	thats quite important	05:12
jebba	andre__: and i kind of pieced that together by the few free remnants of code you guys published in DSM, so thanks for opening those bits up at least. Nokia is gonna double my pay!	05:12
lcuk	yeah andre, anything which allows data recovery without a reflash is a major win!	05:12
jebba	god, can i just cut & paste this shit. hahaha	05:12
jebba	I just had to set time & date at boot and then i was fine.	05:13
andre__	jebba, Re "you guys": I'm not part of Nokia actually :)	05:13
jebba	lcuk: see http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/MALF/ if you haven't yet.	05:13
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lcuk	andre :) but a pretty damn vital member of maemo :)	05:13
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jebba	wow. andre__, you're not part of nokia? consultant or something no? anyway, no need to answer.	05:14
jebba	lcuk: any suggestions for places to file that?	05:14
andre__	jebba: subcontractor. with some nice freedom included :)	05:14
jebba	there's probably a few bugs that could be mentioned. Bug 7019 bug 5450 bug 6350	05:15
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019 Release source code of "getbootstate"	05:15
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450 Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space	05:15
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 random reboot bricks device	05:15
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lcuk	random reboots	05:15
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andre__	reboots - that's the ugliest report I currnelty have. a bunch of comments, definitely several issues in one report, and lots of noise :-/	05:16
lcuk	a LOT of noise	05:16
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andre__	yeah :-(	05:16
lcuk	so finding something like this can be investigated	05:17
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andre__	have to make clear that forum and bugzilla are different tools. that's probably complicated if a normal user has never seen those tools before	05:17
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andre__	jebba:	05:18
andre__	please also add to your comments that R&D mode is not recommended and should be disabled again later. It will create other side effects	05:18
andre__	e.g. the keyboard backlight will behave weird et	05:18
andre__	c	05:19
* andre__ tries to avoid followup noise		05:19
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andre__	jebba, also, your solution is quite Debian/Ubuntu specific, hence nothing for normal Windows users - also worth to mention :)	05:21
jebba	andre__: hah. ya was seeing the weird keyboard thing thx for letting me know that it is "normal" or at least known.	05:22
jebba	i'm running fedora x86_64 fwiw.	05:22
andre__	please mention it, really :)	05:22
jebba	i guess that's just a reason why the fucking FLASHER should be free software too. Gah, the pain they cause ;)	05:22
andre__	oh. me too, but i was too lazy to set up sudo here :)	05:23
jebba	ok, i did the comments already, but i'll respam them all again ;)	05:23
jebba	andre__: i'll disable R&D mode on mine first to see if it goes back to brick. 1 min	05:23
jebba	andre__: to be clear, no flasher exists for windows?	05:25
andre__	errm. actually I must say that I don't know, as my only machine that runs windows has a broken USB :)	05:25
gavin	there's a flasher for windows	05:26
gavin	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	05:26
andre__	but the "sudo" part won't work on windows	05:27
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andre__	jebba, see, I only want to avoid followup questions / noise. hence the request to be exact in your comment :) thanks in advance	05:27
jebba	also `hg clone http://hg.youterm.com/0xFFFF` the free software flasher now has n900 code, but i havent tested it yet. It can also set R&D mode.	05:27
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jebba	andre__: sry i pooched that then, as i sent it before i read what you wrote. I've been at this for, uh, maybe 14 hours now hehe	05:28
andre__	jebba, hehe, well, add a second comment :)	05:29
jebba	ah, at least I collided with you on the getbootstate bug. hah	05:31
red	13,5 hours of Java so far jebba :)	05:33
red	i get the feeling im not in my sharpest of states hehe	05:33
dmj7261	lcuk: you were doing a video editor mockup, right?	05:33
jebba	i've spend the last few minutes merely trying to press "U" and plug in the fkn cable heh	05:35
red	:D	05:37
red	not that well there either then	05:37
jebba	Yep, setting R&D mode, booting up, setting production mode, booting up A-OK :) No brick.	05:37
jebba	free fone?	05:38
jebba	andre__: is what i wrote in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019 ok? I'm just gonna cut & paste relevent bits to the other tickets if it's ok.	05:39
povbot	Bug 7019: Release source code of "getbootstate"	05:39
DocScrutinizer51	jebba: reading about "why closed pkges" and #7019 really kinda made me sad :-/	05:39
microlith	jebba: if I execute that enable-rd-mode it'll just trigger it without any reflash I assume?	05:39
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jebba	microlith: correct.	05:41
GAN900	dmj7261, haven't kept tabs since BCN	05:41
jebba	DocScrutinizer51: ya, nokia will probably have batteries blowing up or something but not let anyone look at the code to protect us or something....	05:42
DocScrutinizer51	"huston we got a problem" muhahaha. State MALF, powering off WTF?!?!	05:42
dmj7261	I don't know where there's even info about it now.	05:42
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GAN900	jebba, andre__ works for maemo.org. ;)	05:42
andre__	jebba, if you replace "you" by "Nokia" and drop the last two paragraphs, and mention that your command is linux-only: yes :)	05:43
jebba	ah gotcha.	05:44
jebba	heh. s/redhat/fedora stuff ya,.	05:44
jebba	ah, ya, but that "you" part wont go in other bugs as it's different issue.	05:46
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jadams	I have an n900. I'd like to stream the videocamera feed over the wifi to another machine on the local network. I would assume gstreamer is the way to go. Am I incorrect?	05:50
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jebba	bug 5450 is marked Resolved: FIXED hehe	05:51
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450 Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space	05:51
andre__	jadams, define "way to go"	05:51
microlith	jebba: just noticed the weird behavior from R&D mode you mentioned	05:51
jadams	andre__: definition: will work, at all, to stream video over the local lan (i.e. not qik)	05:51
andre__	jadams, you know that gstreamer is a backend?	05:52
DocScrutinizer51	Obviously depends on the streaming format you choose	05:53
jebba	microlith: uh, did booting up in R&D mode de-brick for you? Or were you not bricked?	05:53
microlith	jebba: was not bricked at the time, however that will be handy in the future	05:53
jebba	ok, definitely let me know.	05:54
microlith	will do	05:54
jebba	plz :)	05:54
microlith	if things go like I expect, it will self-brick before I am home tomorrow :/	05:54
red	microlith: in short what causes the self-bricking? :o	05:54
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microlith	red: bug 6350	05:55
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 random reboot bricks device	05:55
microlith	but the device isn't really bricked	05:55
microlith	jebba just pointed out some nokia program causes it to halt during boot because it rebooted too much	05:55
warpatch	can someone tell me the program name of the "secure device" program? I'm a moron and forgot my password.	05:56
red	microlith: mmm.. i've not experienced any random reboots and had the phone a bit over a week now, using 10+ testing and 2 devel software	05:56
andre__	warpatch, ???	05:56
red	is that random rebooting something hardware oriented or probably affecting all units?	05:57
andre__	what "secure device" program?	05:57
jebba	i've only had 1 random reboot days ago	05:57
warpatch	andre__: I was hoping to killall -9 the program. guess that won't work?	05:57
microlith	mine's been doing it pretty furiously since friday	05:57
andre__	warpatch, now if I had a clue what you talk about... :)	05:57
microlith	had to reflash sunday, monday, and today	05:57
jebba	microlith: you could try my kernel that has framebuffer console too, which will give more debug info. But only if you're comfortable with kernels/modules/etc, otherwise....	05:58
warpatch	andre__: hah, well...you click the power button and then you have a couple of options. one locks the phone with a wonderful keypad	05:58
red	microlith: by any chance did you use mass storage mode and transfered windows onto the phone via windows?	05:58
red	files onto*	05:58
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microlith	jebba: I don't think it'll make much of a difference, since it's apparently a hardware watchdog kicking it	05:58
andre__	warpatch, "device lock"	05:58
microlith	red: a couple times, back on sunday	05:58
warpatch	andre__: that is likely it	05:59
andre__	hehe	05:59
red	it rebooted on friday, but you didnt use mass storage mode with a windows machine until sunday?	05:59
andre__	warpatch, tried 12345?	05:59
jebba	microlith: but yours bricks after the reboot (sometimes? all times?). Mine was MALFing before the watchdog was even loaded.	05:59
microlith	jebba: after enough reboots it does	05:59
andre__	warpatch, ah well, if you have reset it... hmm.	05:59
warpatch	andre__: yes, I changed it yesterday and damned if I remember what it is now	05:59
red	silly question, i havent checked, but what filesystem does the N900 use?	05:59
microlith	red: rootfs is ubifs, /opt partition is ext3, remainder of the 32GB is fat32	06:00
warpatch	andre__: but I remember the root password, so I was hoping to ssh and kill the program if possible	06:00
jebba	haha	06:00
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red	microlith: good, ok	06:00
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red	do you "eject" the device or just unplug it from pc?	06:01
andre__	ejecting is always safer	06:01
microlith	red: since reads/writes aren't cached on removable media, just unplug	06:02
microlith	hard disks and the like I eject	06:02
andre__	warpatch, interesting idea. no clue if that works :)	06:02
warpatch	andre__: me neither, thats why I was hoping to find the program's name and kill it if it exists :)	06:02
red	one could still argue ejecting to be safer	06:03
red	thought im unsure as if its just the fact i've been told to always do it instead of actually having read some facts to base it on	06:03
red	but as for the bug itself.. pretty mindboggling	06:03
microlith	yeah	06:03
andre__	warpatch, if ssh works, you could also try devlocktool -C	06:03
Macer	wow. i never noticed that SS uniforms had a skull on them	06:04
red	where did that come from	06:05
Macer	a skull and crossbones :) haha. those nazis sure knew how to make uniforms	06:05
jebba	...	06:05
Macer	yeah. that was the wrong # sorry :)	06:05
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red	:D	06:06
red	oh well, thanks for the uplift	06:07
warpatch	andre__: well that doesn't seem to do anything really. it doesn't throw an error but it doesn't change the code either	06:08
warpatch	not sure if I'm using it properly, but I believe I am	06:08
andre__	uh? but it should. what id you enter?	06:08
andre__	see devlocktool --help	06:08
DocScrutinizer51	warpatch: nota bene the --help says it needs old CODE to set NEWCODE	06:09
andre__	argh	06:09
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DocScrutinizer51	andre__: ;-P	06:09
* andre__ should go to bed soon		06:09
warpatch	DocScrutinizer51: so its probably not giving me an error when I type in the wrong code	06:10
DocScrutinizer51	no idea	06:10
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DocScrutinizer51	lemme try ;)	06:10
DocScrutinizer51	obviously no reply, no	06:11
jebba	dbus-send --system --type=method_call \	06:12
jebba	--dest="com.nokia.mce" --print-reply \	06:12
jebba	"/com/nokia/mce/request" \	06:12
jebba	com.nokia.mce.request.get_devicelock_mode	06:12
jebba	can probably set it some how with dbus too...	06:12
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DocScrutinizer51	warpatch: if any of the hackers here could spot the file where the lock code is stored then you most likely can reset it by simply editing or copying over the original	06:14
jebba	warpatch: does this say that it's locked? gconftool-2 -R /apps/osso/applet/osso-applet-devicelock	06:15
warpatch	ugh, whats even ridiculous is that I can apparently answer incoming phonecalls	06:15
jebba	haha	06:15
warpatch	someone just called me and let me answer	06:15
warpatch	let me check	06:15
red	warpatch: did you change lock code and now as you attempt to enter it it says its wrong?	06:16
DocScrutinizer51	red: yes	06:16
red	i had the same bug	06:16
warpatch	red: yes. I was almost certain I remembered it but apparently not	06:16
warpatch	its a bug?	06:16
red	well, i did remember and i knew i typed it right	06:16
red	but it didnt work	06:17
red	restarting the phone made it work	06:17
red	so there was some odd bug that the default code didnt work, nor the new one i entered, until i rebooted	06:17
red	incase u didnt boot yet give it a try	06:17
red	any luck?	06:30
jebba	gconftool-2 --get /system/osso/dsm/locks/devicelock_failed	06:31
jebba	that's cute	06:31
jebba	i'm getting there....	06:31
DocScrutinizer51	jebba: is this a bug? when display is set to "don't dim while charging" it still doesn,t undim on charger plugin	06:33
DocScrutinizer51	jebba: could aslo be a feature ;-)	06:33
red	i suppose that means the automagic dimming depending on lighting	06:33
red	and not the idle dimming	06:33
red	atleast thats how i thought	06:34
andre__	what is "undim"?	06:34
DocScrutinizer51	andre__: enable backlight	06:34
red	change brightness to full when you plug to charger? :p	06:34
andre__	heh. ah :)	06:34
jebba	hmm, changing everything related to "lock" in gconftool and rebooting still comes up locked, so i dont think it is set there.	06:34
DocScrutinizer51	jebba: to unlock??	06:35
red	could there be a temp file which when present indicates locked state?	06:35
DocScrutinizer51	could aslso actually be the lock code for modem	06:36
DocScrutinizer51	handled completely outside linux system, on modem	06:36
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DocScrutinizer51	except the requester itself	06:37
jebba	well, it's gotta be in there somewhere...	06:38
jebba	i'll find it some day ;)	06:38
red	thought the lockdown code isn't sim based so would be odd to be handled in the modem	06:38
DocScrutinizer51	red: I'm not sure. AIUI a change of SIM as well triggers the hw lock	06:39
DocScrutinizer51	SIM is modem subsys domain	06:39
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red	mm, true	06:44
red	out of my ballpark anyhow	06:45
red	im just the type of person to throw up suggestions even when I probably should just shut my trap :)	06:45
DocScrutinizer51	red: jebba: so odds are you never find a location in any filesystem to change/reset hw lock code	06:46
DocScrutinizer51	and you might end up with a locked modem even if warpatch managed to kill -9 lockerprog	06:46
jebba	DocScrutinizer51: well, i bet it's there somewhere. nvram in some systems. Even if the code itself is in the SIM or something, it's linux that is locking the screen, ala xscreesaver-ish. that can be killed.	06:47
jebba	ah, good point tho	06:47
jebba	even that's gotta be recoverable i would think....	06:47
DocScrutinizer51	yep. by secrect incantation built by IMEI modulo PI	06:48
jebba	man i'm glad i didnt have to reflash this thing.	06:49
jebba	i'm outta here for the night though. hasta mañana....	06:50
DocScrutinizer51	buenas notches	06:50
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red	and i still have 4 more hours of java debugging before software showcasing	06:51
red	hate	06:51
DocScrutinizer51	eeew. enjoy ;-)	06:52
RolaBlade	Hi... anyone here know how or where I can find information on how to install maemo sdk on Arch Linux? Thanks	06:52
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jebba	RolaBlade: uh, dunno, but i can give you an account on a system with SDK. http://www.freemoe.org (uh, still here, my calendar is whacked due to reset and brokentimezoneness in buenos aires gah)	07:00
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RolaBlade	jebba: how is this system	07:04
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johnx	augh! groupware is a PITA	07:07
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joppu_	Theme "reflect" now in extras-testing. Test test test!	07:44
johnx	ooooh. is it shiny?	07:44
joppu_	It's _really_ shiny	07:45
red	Need to find where my phone is and then ill test, brb :)	07:45
red	what category?	07:46
joppu_	uh...	07:47
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red	nothing named reflect on the listings	07:48
red	did refresh before checking "All"	07:48
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joppu_	Perhaps it's in an illegal category?	07:49
red	wtf, sudo gainroot is prompting me for a password?	07:49
joppu_	Autobuilder reports success	07:49
johnx	red: install rootsh	07:50
red	i have it	07:50
johnx	type: root	07:50
red	and it worked 2 days ago	07:50
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red	meh, went in	07:50
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red	did the command change?	07:50
red	i recall an update to it	07:50
red	not sure if i used it after	07:51
DocScrutinizer51	sudo gainroot	07:51
joppu_	red: http://maemo.org/packages/view/reflect/	07:51
red	restarted x terminal and it seems to work properly again	07:52
johnx	DocScrutinizer51, #	07:52
red	some odd hickup :)	07:52
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red	what was the command to see available space for file systems	07:52
johnx	df -h	07:53
red	95% on rootfs	07:53
red	so shouldnt be the problem	07:53
v2px	is there a screenie of the reflect theme?	07:54
DocScrutinizer51	sorry, someone talked to me. netsplit wiped my screen	07:54
red	joppu_: shouldnt it be visible in the add/remove application list?	07:54
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red	re-refreshing just to be sure before i go try cmdline apt-get	07:55
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red	apt-get install reflect	07:57
v2px	no reflect in my app manager	07:57
red	-> couldnt find package reflect	07:57
red	did two refreshes	07:57
red	it	07:58
red	it's in devel, not extras testing dude :p	07:58
red	< joppu_> Theme "reflect" now in extras-testing. Test test test!	07:58
v2px	i use devel... but no reflect there, too	07:58
Macer	oh no. the anti-toxin has iridium in it!	07:59
Macer	haha.. i love star trek.. the older one cracks me up	07:59
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red	v2px: enabled it too now, refreshed via apt-get update and nothing called reflect for me either	08:00
red	but the url above shows that it should be there	08:00
sulx4	no reflect...	08:01
v2px	so i guess there is a delay... :)	08:01
red	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/reflect/0.71-1/	08:01
red	this link is at maemo.org	08:01
red	but it times out for me	08:01
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red	just "Waiting for maemo.org..."	08:02
v2px	oh hey	08:02
v2px	i386 is not what we want on the device :P	08:02
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red	haha, right	08:02
v2px	so i think its not shown because its tagged with i386?	08:03
red	dont hold not noticing that against me, been up for 28h	08:03
red	joppu_: fixfix!	08:03
v2px	heh me too. about 30h	08:03
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johnx	ddos/netsplits are killing me. I'll be back later	08:04
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* red slaps joppu_		08:05
red	tension building here dude :)	08:06
v2px	:P	08:07
v2px	the alternative is to provide screenshots	08:07
red	yep	08:08
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* DocScrutinizer51 drops a thermonuclear device on scriptkiddies, botnet maffia, and every single windoof user too lame to keep malware (beyond the one big virus from Redmond) off his box		08:09
red	whats the xulrunner packages on the device?	08:10
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v2px	windoof user? :P	08:10
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RST38h	Michal Jerz is gooood	08:11
v2px	red: for microb maybe?	08:11
* RST38h found the first maemo-related site (outside maemo.org) that is worth reading		08:11
* ShadowJK fails to find conference mode in maemo5 xchat		08:11
DocScrutinizer51	what's confmode?	08:12
ShadowJK	hide joins and parts	08:12
red	ok	08:12
DocScrutinizer51	click and hold chan tab	08:12
ShadowJK	so i dont see the netsplitting	08:12
ShadowJK	nope not there	08:12
DocScrutinizer51	on 900	08:13
ShadowJK	yes	08:13
DocScrutinizer51	on 810 no idea	08:13
DocScrutinizer51	not there	08:13
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v2px	try /set and pick the right option	08:14
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ShadowJK	/set is kinda not useful in xchat	08:14
ShadowJK	and no per-channel settings are there	08:15
red	Anyone have any ideas how to free space on rootfs partition? Mine shows 95% usage even thought there arent that many applications installed currently	08:15
red	is there any way to purge/flush trash files or something like that?	08:15
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joerg_42	reboot	08:17
joppu_	v2px: yeah, seems so :(	08:17
red	doh, I tried that after removing some software already, with little change to free space.. 97% -> 95%	08:18
joppu_	And yeah, it was in devel, my bad, my bad	08:18
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red	joppu_: and i386	08:18
flux	red, have you installed stuff from extras or extras-devel?	08:19
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v2px	screenie pls :x	08:19
joppu_	red: yeah, I need to rebuild it :(	08:19
red	flux: one software from extras-devel (client to stream stuff from a media server), butterfly from extras-testing among few	08:19
joppu_	v2px: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test2.png	08:20
red	im aware of the issues that they might eat up space etc	08:20
v2px	thx joppu_	08:20
red	just asking if theres any way to cleanup other than reflash etc	08:20
ShadowJK	aha, /chanopt confmode obn	08:20
ShadowJK	s/obn/on/	08:20
infobot	ShadowJK meant: aha, /chanopt confmode on	08:20
flux	well, I'm not worried, I'm at 95% :)	08:20
red	95% used and not worried?	08:21
flux	the amount doesn't seem to be increasing.	08:21
flux	(by itself)	08:21
flux	and I'm sure I have a bunch of software installed in the partition	08:21
red	ah ye, well.. deleted all things i really dont use and im at 92% now	08:21
v2px	i have 90%	08:21
red	and im 92% sure its not increasing itself aswell so no worries	08:22
red	but i do wonder why nokia went so cheap and made the fast partition that small	08:22
red	or perhaps they underestimated the need.. no idea, someone wiser might know	08:23
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flux	it is likely the hardware decisions were made much in advance, and 256 might have sounded a lot bigger back then.	08:23
flux	and when you make millions of devices (not sure what's the status of n900), every euro counts :)	08:23
red	:)	08:24
ShadowJK	and there's 32gig on the other chip	08:24
redeeman	it also counts that people don't "break" their devices when installing stuff	08:24
ShadowJK	if only software would use that instead	08:24
luke-jr	um	08:24
ShadowJK	and completely ignore the / chip	08:24
luke-jr	root partition probably has reserved blocks?	08:25
joerg_42	256M is SoC storage I guess	08:25
ShadowJK	well it's soldered ontop of the soc	08:26
joerg_42	ShadowJK: lol	08:26
joerg_42	yeah somehow	08:26
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ShadowJK	package on package	08:26
joerg_42	by TI though	08:26
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ShadowJK	dont think so	08:27
ShadowJK	ram is in the same chip I think	08:27
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red	joppu_: is ur themes only change the glossy virtual keyboard?	08:29
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slonopotamus	moooorning	08:39
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v2px	i like this theme: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:M4w5Qh.png	08:42
red	filthy : inside an url	08:45
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v2px	:P	08:45
v2px	better this way? http://wiki.maemo.org/images/b/b6/M4w5Qh.png	08:45
red	why doesnt the n900 virtual desktop icons have snapping? :p	08:46
v2px	yea i miss that. is there a brainstorm or something about it?	08:47
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red	no idea, but it makes the perfectionist in me cry silently	08:49
red	nudging stuff back and forth with stylus for hours :D	08:49
red	and then accidentally enabling desktop config and pushing some icon off balance	08:49
v2px	i was hoping i'm not the only one doing that :D	08:50
red	haha	08:50
v2px	or accidentally tapping on the X on a icon	08:50
KMFDM	please snapping	08:51
KMFDM	oh yes please	08:51
KMFDM	i also	08:52
KMFDM	spend so much time	08:52
KMFDM	fixing it	08:52
KMFDM	and then i accidentally move something	08:52
KMFDM	i want a way to lock the desktop honestly	08:52
KMFDM	so i can't accidentally go into edit mode	08:52
KMFDM	and wipe half of my icons	08:52
KMFDM	as has happened before when i dropped the phone into my pocket	08:52
v2px	:D :D	08:53
v2px	my desktop (i use only one): http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/1527/a63846504ce44d3c8ab88957771ff28e.jpg	08:54
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v2px	but the screenie is old. fixed the icons later tonigt	08:54
tigert	red: theres a grid	08:55
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tigert	its just 4px iirc	08:55
v2px	there it is http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/1529/6e69fc7689fb47f1bb8292e7649371b1.jpg	08:55
v2px	there really is a grid?	08:55
tigert	which makes it 0.4mm	08:55
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tigert	but go poke in hildondesktop.ini	08:55
tigert	i think thats the filename	08:56
tigert	it can be changed	08:56
* tigert looks		08:56
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tigert	no wait hmm	08:58
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tigert	so /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini has lots of fun to break the ui ;)	08:59
tigert	but i think the grid was somewhere too...	09:00
* tigert looks		09:00
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* v2px tries to wait patiently		09:02
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tigert	darn, cannot find	09:06
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tigert	i remember someone mentioning this though	09:06
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v2px	sigh	09:08
redeeman	nokia has said that won't come before maemo 6	09:09
red	tigert: well there is some adjancing grid when adding stuff on the desktop	09:09
red	but nothing snaps to it while dragging	09:09
red	when you click done it moves around the items by a small amount but its negligible	09:10
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red	redeeman: wtf..	09:10
red	they cant be serious, thats such a small thing	09:10
redeeman	according to them its not a "no brainer"	09:11
redeeman	maemo 5 is a joke to them	09:11
red	well I hope to god you can upgrade N900 to Maemo 6	09:11
redeeman	according to nokia you cant :P	09:11
red	...	09:11
tigert	hmm	09:11
red	i almost feel as screwed as to when the truth about apples nazim over appstore finally hit me	09:12
redeeman	it really is weird nokia is doing nothing to maemo 5	09:12
v2px	i thought there is a update coming b4 christmas?	09:13
red	so much for having a perfect opensource platform which has GUI layer mostly locked and Nokia deciding not to cater for it	09:13
red	makes absolutely no sense at all	09:14
* v2px acks		09:14
ShadowJK	Oh have they said you can't now?	09:14
DocScrutinizer-8	for now I suggest to keep a backup of the .desktop or whatever the file/dir is called. Then simply restore when you accidentally messed your beloved desktop	09:14
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redeeman	v2px: yes but who knows what that will contain, probably minor stuff	09:14
adeus	bug fixes probably	09:15
redeeman	but nokia only considers very few things bugs	09:15
tigert	v2px: let me ask the folks, are you going to be around?	09:15
red	wonder if they are trying to hook clients for having almost nice phone and trying to get them to upgrade to another expensive phone then	09:15
v2px	tigert: sure	09:15
DocScrutinizer-8	red: sounds much like FUD rant	09:16
v2px	i'm hoping for "the community" to replace the closed-source stuff with open alternatives	09:16
v2px	:>	09:16
ShadowJK	v2px, checked out mer?	09:16
red	whats a FUD rant?	09:16
ShadowJK	Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt	09:16
redeeman	DocScrutinizer-8: while they probably arent trying to "hook" people, they are effectively abandoning maemo 5 basically before its out the door	09:16
v2px	ShadowJK: not yet. is it worth a try? :P	09:16
red	im only experssing disgust if they really dont consider maemo 5 worth developing further and not making upgrading to Maemo 6 possible	09:17
DocScrutinizer-8	redeeman: who told that?	09:17
ShadowJK	v2px, I mean everyone that wants to open up teh closed source ought to work on/with Mer and the Mer people	09:17
v2px	i'd help if i could do something good	09:17
redeeman	DocScrutinizer-8: well.. johnx said that nokia said maemo 6 won't be coming to N900, and reading the bug reports (including some i made myself) it becomes abundantly clear that they are not interresting in anything that cannot be fixed with 5 minutes hacking	09:18
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DocScrutinizer-8	red: there's just exactly one word in your statement :"if"	09:18
v2px	ShadowJK: i know perl! does this help? hides	09:18
redeeman	DocScrutinizer-8: furthermore they state "this feature will come in later maemo devices....." when its REALLY simple and basic features they for some grotesk reason omitted	09:18
ShadowJK	v2px, surely if you can distinguish perl from noise you can wrap your head around anything?	09:18
v2px	ShadowJK: :> you got a point there	09:19
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ShadowJK	What I find annoying is that a bug is not a bug if the bug is in the spec, and it's hard to discover what the spec is	09:20
DocScrutinizer-8	well, nokia managed with a lot of pain obviously to push N900 out the door just 2 weeks ago	09:20
red	DocScrutinizer-8: im basing my ranting on what johnx said nokia said - which i cannot know for certain, hence the if	09:20
red	really im just afraid and dunno if i should be angry or what :p	09:20
DocScrutinizer-8	so I'm reluctant to speculate about their dedication to "small simple fixes"	09:20
redeeman	i can understand that more advanced non-completely-basic features might not come to n900/maemo 5, i can even to some degree understand maemo 6 not coming, but the bugs/barebone features that they are refusing to fix for maemo 5 is frankly too much	09:21
pupnik	k goodbye	09:21
red	what redeeman said exactly	09:21
redeeman	especially given that some of the features are even essential to have officially listed features work	09:21
redeeman	for instance	09:21
red	still im going to stay hopeful, can't know until they state something officially :)	09:21
DocScrutinizer-8	red: exactly. scratch all other words. the if is sufficient	09:21
redeeman	saving sent mail on imap sent folder	09:21
redeeman	which they refuse to fix in maemo 5	09:22
redeeman	they cant freaking list imap as supported without that	09:22
pupnik	mail works fine here	09:22
redeeman	pupnik: does it store sent mail on server? i think not	09:22
ShadowJK	modest is suck, but I don't see anyone from community even trying to fix that either	09:22
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red	DocScrutinizer-8: why are you grabbing one word in few sentences only? are you not worried one bit or don't feel like the features missing are of importance?	09:22
red	or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing. i find it hard to make out	09:23
redeeman	ShadowJK: be that as it may, nokia is supposed to provide the basic features	09:23
pupnik	i use webmail since .. the web :)	09:23
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redeeman	ShadowJK: but some parts of things are not even open, for instance, im told the calling application is closed, that makes it somewhat hard for us to work with	09:23
red	for my gmail account imap stores sent messages, drafts not thought	09:23
DocScrutinizer-8	I'm just not silly enough to argue and rant after 2 weeks from official release about sth that someone said foo	09:23
redeeman	DocScrutinizer-8: most of the rant is about the responses to reported bugs	09:24
redeeman	red: great, so it works if you use the magical gmail preset?	09:24
DocScrutinizer-8	I give a shit to those responses	09:24
red	redeeman: i chose gmail from the list and entered details	09:24
red	DocScrutinizer-8: yet you are arguing, so your attempt to place yourself above it kinda fails.	09:25
redeeman	red: including imap server, port, authentication etc?	09:25
DocScrutinizer-8	nokia is in panic mode right ATM	09:25
pupnik	they are?	09:25
red	if i recall correctly, it was a quick setup and among first things i did	09:25
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DocScrutinizer-8	red: huh?	09:25
redeeman	well if they want to sell N900 they'd better fix the most basic things, as it stands now nobody that's serious about using even the simplest PIM features can do anything but laugh at N900	09:26
pupnik	are you done?	09:26
v2px	but i can have scumm on my n900. thats enough to make me happy	09:27
DocScrutinizer-8	so WHAT? microsoft does not fix any bugs TWELFE TIMES a year for at least as long as Nokia did now	09:27
pupnik	redeeman: do you have an n900?	09:27
redeeman	nobody said microsoft is usable to any degree?	09:27
redeeman	pupnik: i do	09:27
redeeman	and one of the things i expected when i read that it supports imap, is to have sent mails stored on server	09:28
redeeman	not to mention namespace support since most imap servers uses that	09:28
red	DocScrutinizer-8: do you really get bothered by me expressing worry of things i think are important and might be neglected in a casual place as IRC? when i clearly stated that im just afraid if it goes as the hearsay implicates.	09:28
redeeman	(allthough surprisingly they are willing to fix that)	09:28
DocScrutinizer-8	c'mon that's plain ridiculous to rant here "eew nokia abandons maemo5. for 2 weeks they came with no fix"	09:28
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pupnik	when are you returning it?	09:28
redeeman	DocScrutinizer-8: im not saying fix should come that fast, but they are outright refusing it on the bug tracker, and furthermore, this is a feature nobody sane could _EVER_ think of omitting in the first place	09:29
red	i didnt talk about any fixes, dont mix up :p	09:29
DocScrutinizer-8	red: I'm worried if the sky falls down on my head	09:29
redeeman	pupnik: im not, because i can live without that, but im certainly not recommending it either	09:29
red	DocScrutinizer-8: why bother replying if you dont answer?	09:29
red	grow up tbh	09:30
DocScrutinizer-8	lol	09:30
redeeman	ofcourse if you're saying that a response on the bugtracker like "store sent mail on server? omfg thats big change!! not in maemo 5!" means they will probably still do it, i take my comments back	09:30
redeeman	but what am i supposed to think when i get such a response?	09:31
* DocScrutinizer-8 shrugs and leaves kindergarden		09:31
mtrlt	it's kindergarten	09:31
DocScrutinizer-8	have a nice time kids. behave	09:31
redeeman	you are not responding to the statement	09:31
redeeman	i must take that as that you cannot back your own statements	09:31
pupnik	redeeman: http://lmgtfy.com/!q=linux+email+client	09:32
redeeman	url doesn't even work	09:32
pupnik	ha ha	09:32
redeeman	and besides, pupnik, that's besides the point, official feature list says it supports imap, fact is it does not, fact is they have openly refused to fix it	09:32
pupnik	are you useless?	09:32
redeeman	now respond to THAT	09:32
pupnik	ah	09:33
red	quite amusing that this guy tackles one word, repeats the same argument over and over and doesn't respond to direct question and still behaves like above others :p	09:33
pupnik	didnt know that. in which case you may have a point buried in there	09:33
redeeman	red: yes, its quite amusing	09:33
pupnik	now	09:33
redeeman	pupnik: i know you dont, because you didn't read what i wrote, but just felt like commenting anyway	09:33
pupnik	you are so important, i can not describe it	09:34
redeeman	i imagine quite alot of other people would wish that feature aswell	09:34
redeeman	either way, if they list it, they should deliver it	09:34
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red	perhaps imap bugging for you is affected by some other issue	09:35
pupnik	and you sir, should return it	09:35
red	for me it works without a hitch, and could have been same for nokia testing it	09:35
redeeman	red: according to the bug report its not a supported feature, and won't be	09:35
red	perhaps the person checking the bugreport had a brainfart, mistakes happend	09:35
redeeman	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2557	09:36
povbot	Bug 2557: Keep Sent and Drafts on IMAP server	09:36
red	should just give it a couple weeks and see how the situation developes	09:36
red	from the attention its gotten it really seems like its low priority feature for nokia	09:37
redeeman	pupnik: i don't even think i can return it anymore, and that's STILL irellevant, when they announce a feature, they had better deliver it, otherwise they are simply lying	09:37
red	must remind you, that not all desktop email clients support sent items saving on the mailbox globally either	09:37
redeeman	i know of no imap-supporting client that does not	09:38
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redeeman	evolution, kmail, thunderbird, cone, sylpheed	09:38
redeeman	hell even outlook probably does	09:38
redeeman	pupnik: http://www.strandreports.com/sw4031.asp <-- i would recommend you spend 5 minutes reading this, and then reflect upon this little conversation :)	09:41
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red	and btw evolution isnt perfect either, it wont save drafts aswell and one could argue it is a lack of a feature in the same ballpark, not as severe thought	09:42
red	it can be worked around with some tweaking thought	09:42
red	im mostly worried about the possible lack of support for the os in future, but its really way too early to know for sure and ive just seen hearsay and nothing official about it	09:42
red	doesnt mean it won't make me worry, but i stay optimistic	09:42
redeeman	evolution can save drafts on server	09:43
redeeman	you just choose it under the account settings	09:43
redeeman	(allthough i have a pretty old evolution, so they MIGHT have removed that, it is gnome after all)	09:43
red	its bugged with default install settings atleast when i started using it just now, and had to rename some folders for it to work properly	09:45
red	wouldnt have found out unless i googled for it	09:45
redeeman	i confess i know nothing of new evolution, but it works in my old one	09:45
red	which i bet some ppl wont bother to do and accept the missing "feature"	09:45
redeeman	perhaps	09:45
red	but for real, we'll really only see around january better, what the future is looking like	09:46
red	too early to say	09:46
red	atleast i hope we know alot more by then :)	09:46
redeeman	well i think it seems pretty clear from the nokia guy that this will not be coming to maemo 5	09:46
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red	dno, i dont regard irc as the most trustworthy media for information under any case	09:49
redeeman	im talking stuff on the bugtracker	09:49
red	its not set in stone, what they write there :p	09:49
red	neither is what is closed for community	09:50
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joppu_	red: no, it changes virtually anything in the UI	09:54
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sergio_	hi guys	10:37
sergio_	I'm having problems today with git.maemo.org	10:37
sergio_	I'm getting a SSL certificate error	10:37
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:46
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sejo	morning	10:46
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jaem	morning	10:53
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jaem	from Wikipedia: "These combination locks were installed on Minuteman ICBMs in the 1960s. However, the Strategic Air Command in Omaha worried that in times of need, the codes would not be available, so they quietly decided to set them to 00000000; checking this combination was even present on the launch checklists. This was not changed until 1977."	10:53
jaem	facepalm	10:53
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harryv	is it correctly understood that e.g. the n900 comes with full root access? no jailbreaking/rooting involved?	10:54
jaem	harryv, you betcha!	10:54
harryv	the lack of articles on how to do so suggests it.	10:54
harryv	nice.	10:54
jaem	well, technically you need to download one app, but it's in the official community repo, and is a one-click deal	10:54
jaem	and it's supported in the sense that they encourage it, although obviously if you break something, it's your fault	10:55
harryv	what does it do?	10:55
jaem	the app is called "rootsh", and thereafter you can use the command "root" to get root	10:55
jaem	not sure exactly how it works, but essentially Nokia just disables sudo access by default so people don't accidentally bork things, and this just undoes what they did in some fashion	10:56
jaem	or something like that	10:56
jaem	but it's completely painless	10:56
jaem	unfortunately, in the default setup you still can't sudo things directly - you have to enter a root shell	10:56
swc\|666	jaem, rofl @ wikipedia article	10:56
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jaem	swc\|666, :) - and you thought default router passwords were bad!	10:57
fcrozat	hi all..	10:57
swc\|666	exactly ;)	10:57
* jaem googles "us missile default launch keys" ;)		10:57
fcrozat	I'm having some issues with ldconfig which crash with bus error on n900	10:57
fcrozat	(on /usr/lib)	10:57
jaem	heh... at least they realized that was a bad idea after only 17 years	10:57
jaem	fcrozat, hi - more detail, please?	10:58
fcrozat	it seems it appeared when I tried to install omweather or python2.5	10:58
swc\|666	jaem, yea that's about the speed of bureaucracy	10:58
jaem	swc\|666, I imagine the speed of the missiles in the question was rather quicker :P	10:58
* fcrozat needs to install strace to check which file seems to be causing the crash :(		10:58
jaem	fcrozat, hmmm... OMWeather worksforme, but I haven't messed with Python much	10:59
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RST38h	Something changed in Bugzilla.	10:59
jaem	RST38h, is this unusual?	11:00
RST38h	It started sending weirdly formatted emails.	11:00
jaem	:S	11:00
ShadowJK	the camera app is kinda bad at taking pics of people's cards	11:00
jaem	you mean bugzilla has - gasp a bug?!	11:00
fcrozat	jaem: well, I "just" installed the stuff from extras repository	11:00
jaem	ShadowJK, that's what you get for cheating at poker	11:00
jaem	fcrozat, what's the error? - brb	11:01
RST38h	No, I mean that something changed.	11:01
krig	anyone know what's the rationale for the weird partitioning scheme? why not map /usr to the mmc rather than /opt?	11:01
ShadowJK	jaem, business cards	11:01
fcrozat	jaem: bus error when /sbin/ldconfig is run by postrm script	11:01
* krig filled his rootfs in no time		11:01
fcrozat	(or when installing new packages)	11:01
RST38h	krig: Because /usr has to become available before mmc is mounted	11:01
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krig	RST38h: aha	11:02
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ShadowJK	I thought I'd start doing like the asians, and take picture of people's business cards, and use the N900's tagging feature to be able to find them later	11:02
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jaem	ShadowJK, you should use Evernote with that as wel	11:04
jaem	so you can do a full-text search on the cards	11:04
jaem	it also occurred to me that Evernote would be handy for recording lecture notes in classes such as math, although if you do that, you usually just look like a noob	11:05
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jaem	fcrozat, not sure, to be honest	11:05
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fcrozat	jaem: I found strange I'm the only one with the issue	11:05
ShadowJK	biggest challenge is to cover the LEDs with finger, regulating the amount of light, while not covering too much of the lens, so that it still sees enough to focus	11:06
jaem	ShadowJK, hrm	11:06
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v2px	oooh i missed the bugday	11:23
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* lucent glows happily "N900 arrived, picking it up from USPS office in 6 hours"		11:27
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lucent	curious if there's any trick to applying a zagg screen protector to it?	11:28
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sayjava	does anyone know if media player on maemo exposes some interfaces via DBus?	11:29
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lucent	great question though @ sayjava	11:32
tigert	sayjava: the media player uses gstreamer stuff underneath	11:33
tigert	those can be poked at via dbus	11:33
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Jaffa	sayjava: MAFW is a high-level media player API; I think it has D-Bus interfaces.	11:43
lucent	Anything a new N900 user should know? like known bugs etc	11:45
lucent	are updates poisonous?	11:45
timeless_mbp	updates haven't happened yet	11:45
timeless_mbp	so asking about them is well...	11:45
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timeless_mbp	generally speaking, you'll want the updates	11:45
sivang	hey timeless_mbp	11:45
timeless_mbp	and nokia delays weeks or months testing them before we deliver them	11:46
timeless_mbp	because we're afraid to ship anything	11:46
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lucent	thanks for the advice :)	11:47
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lucent	my only regret is that the N900 doesn't look able to host USB devices	11:48
redeeman	that would have been nice, but well... not really that required	11:49
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lucent	due to time-to-market constraints? or just not possible	11:49
lucent	curious about whether we'll see an N900+1 that does host usb	11:50
timeless_mbp	lucent: so, roughly each hardware product nokia has made has been different from the previous one	11:51
timeless_mbp	so one can't apply the logic you're trying to apply to determine whether a future product will or won't have something	11:51
Proteous	due to not wanting to deal with the battery power draw that might happen depending on what USB device people try to plug in	11:51
Proteous	probably	11:51
* timeless_mbp doesn't think that was the reason		11:52
Proteous	well fine then	11:52
Proteous	hmph	11:52
timeless_mbp	you're assuming that the person who selected the component was concerned about that	11:52
lucent	very good point @ timeless_mbp	11:52
lucent	I've heard that the push for micro-usb is very big in Europe	11:53
lucent	does micro-usb allow host device?	11:53
redeeman	microusb is the connector	11:54
redeeman	it allows nothing :P	11:54
timeless_mbp	so, roughly, mini-usb wasn't supposed to do hosting	11:54
Proteous	the connector size probably doesn't have anything to do with what modes it supports	11:54
timeless_mbp	micro-usb was supposed to enable various things	11:54
fcrozat	lucent: there is an EU regulation mandatoring micro-usb as power plug for mobile phone	11:54
lucent	oh, I suggest that because of my experience with Sharp C3xxx devices, a special cable was needed to trigger the host support	11:54
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timeless_mbp	the problem is...	11:55
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Proteous	same with the nokia n810	11:55
timeless_mbp	usb charging became much more important than usb host mode	11:55
Myrtti	lucent: china too	11:55
Proteous	if they would just move to the minuscule USB standard they could solve all these problems	11:56
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Proteous	or was that petite USB	11:57
Proteous	teensy usb?	11:57
Proteous	I can never remember what usb cable to buy	11:57
Myrtti	Proteous: have more coffee	11:58
Proteous	I buy a micro B when I was suppose to get a mini A-	11:58
Proteous	heh	11:58
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Myrtti	_berto_: aloha	11:58
sayjava	jaffa: yes I know it has but it is not documented anywhere	11:59
_berto_	Myrtti: moi :)	11:59
Proteous	Once they impliment Mondo USB you can have a USB port that doubles as a car mount	11:59
Myrtti	_berto_: any news on last.fm?	12:00
sayjava	tigert: I wanted to use the highlevel framework (mafw) not talk directly with gstreamer	12:00
ShadowJK	N810 has MicroUSB too. N800 has MiniUSB	12:00
_berto_	Myrtti: I sent them yet another email yesterday, but no reply	12:00
Myrtti	_berto_: reading from a blogpost with their comments, the message was that there's nothing stopping from making mobile clients, as long as they identify as such to last.fm, which allows last.fm to stream the client a stream that has been tailored for such devices	12:01
ShadowJK	what do they mean "tailored"	12:02
ShadowJK	surely you still want 256kbit/s AAC or whatever	12:02
Myrtti	ShadowJK: some of the content is not available for "phones" due to licencing restrictions by the record companies.	12:02
Myrtti	so basically some songs/artists/whatever are not available for phones.	12:03
ShadowJK	oh, well, nokia says I have a mobile computer	12:03
Myrtti	ShadowJK: and that's where we tread on thin ice	12:03
lucent	can't it be a user option "which device do you have?"	12:03
tigert	sayjava: ah ok	12:03
lucent	let user pick. badda bing	12:03
_berto_	and how am I supposed to identify myself as a mobile client?	12:03
Myrtti	lucent: you think that the record companies would allow that? LOL.	12:04
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lucent	well, yeah	12:04
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: of note, the n810 didn't support usb charging	12:04
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ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, yeah	12:04
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_berto_	there's a getMobileSession() function in the API, but that doesn't seem to be for that	12:04
_berto_	"In some cases, you may want to choose a different authentication path from the obvious (e.g. a mobile app could well use the desktop path if there's a web browser on the device). If in doubt, check them all out."	12:04
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Myrtti	_berto_: I suppose that the API key they issue you will tell them that this particular user is requesting the content with this particular app which is designed to be run on a phone.	12:05
Myrtti	but this is only my speculation	12:05
Myrtti	in reality, I have no idea how that would work	12:05
_berto_	I haven't seen anything in the API	12:06
_berto_	and when you request the API key they don't ask if it's for a mobile app or not	12:06
lucent	timeless_mbp: thanks again for the wisdom about N900 vs N810 micro usb functions, it does clear up some confusion I had	12:07
sayjava	Myrtti:I dont think there should be a problem with the device	12:10
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Myrtti	sayjava: I personally don't know what the problem is ;-)	12:12
Lantizia	Lo, can I reflash my N900 back to defaults? (i.e. re-install Maemo 5 reverting all packages I've installed)	12:13
Myrtti	apart from last.fm not replying _berto_'s emails	12:13
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sayjava	Myrtti:I see, i signed up for the api, and there was no request regarding the application platform	12:14
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ct529	is it possible to install and use maemo as general purpose os on a laptop?	12:15
ct529	(just watching videos, email, browsing, basic office editing)	12:15
Lantizia	ct529: if you recompile it sure I don't see why not... it's meant for an armel processor	12:15
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Myrtti	sayjava: I'm only paraphrasing what I've read from their blog and such	12:15
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Lantizia	ct529: you'd also need more drivers in your kernel for whatever hardware the lappy has	12:16
ct529	Lantizia: it is an "old" Turion laptop with 1GB RAM, ATI RADEON MOBILE X700, 100Gb disk ....running kubuntu 904 at the moment, but feeling the weight of the full blown distribution	12:17
_berto_	Myrtti: it's not very clear, I haven't even found those restrictions in their terms of use: http://www.last.fm/legal/terms	12:17
_berto_	they were only announced in their blog and in the forum	12:18
_berto_	that's quite weird too	12:18
Lantizia	ct529: thats nice, good luck	12:18
ct529	Lantizia: do you think I can use the same kernel drivers?	12:19
Lantizia	no	12:19
ct529	Lantizia: oh .... I thought the underlying kernel was linux ....	12:19
Lantizia	it is, but even linux can be stripped back to just what you need	12:19
Lantizia	the kernel in maemo will have been stripped back to NXXX hardware only I suspect	12:20
Corsac	Lantizia: might want to try mer	12:20
ct529	Lantizia: yes, I realise that .... but why can I not add the original kernel drivers for my hardware? is it a technical or legal limitation?	12:20
pupnik	anybody figure out hw to turn-off cell radio yet?	12:20
Myrtti	sayjava: basically what _berto_ said: they're not very clear, and the little information there is has a PS. in it "definition of a mobile device is not set on stone"	12:20
Lantizia	Corsac: I might? I'm not the one asking questions... ct529 is	12:20
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Lantizia	ct529: you just don't get it, forget about the idea	12:21
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Khertan	Hi !	12:22
pupnik	old master khertan...	12:22
Myrtti	_berto_: have you yet had any contact with mobbler people? perhaps they could tell about their experiences?	12:22
Corsac	Lantizia: ho sorry :)	12:22
Corsac	Khertan: hey	12:22
ifreq	moin	12:23
Khertan	Aya pupnik and Corsac	12:23
_berto_	Myrtti: not yet, but I was planning to do that	12:23
pupnik	i would really like to be off the cell network when i am at home	12:24
ct529	Corsac: is it better to ask in mer? I thought I may simply re compile the kernel adding the necessary drivers and patches and that would be it	12:24
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sayjava	Myrtti: I hope _berto_: finds a solution	12:24
pupnik	hehe @ google N900+rmmod	12:25
florian	good morning	12:25
Micha_	Khertan: Good morning. Got your pypackager working on the n900.	12:27
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pupnik	i hope you all saw the awesome hack to add ~ \| > buttons to your xterm border	12:28
swc\|666	where	12:29
Micha_	pupnik: Where?!?	12:29
Myrtti	pupnik: is there a way to add ctrl-p and ctrl-n too?	12:29
pupnik	i have to search chatlog	12:29
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pupnik	ruskie: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string "[Tab,Esc,Up,Dn,~,\|,>]"	12:34
ruskie	mispased?	12:34
pupnik	ruskie: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string "[Tab,Esc,Up,Dn,~,\|,>]"	12:34
ruskie	ahh	12:34
pupnik	oop	12:34
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ruskie	btw that's also on talk.maemo.org searching for xterm hacks	12:34
red	How can I directly save certificates over the internet? School WLAN requires a certificate and I have a choice of multiple different types, all just end up "loading" when I click them in the browser	12:34
pupnik	ruskie: gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string "[Tab,Esc,Up,Dn,~,\|,>]"	12:34
red	without the certificate I cannot connect to the wlan :P	12:34
pupnik	dammit	12:34
red	old phone retrieved it automaticly	12:34
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pupnik	pastefail	12:35
pupnik	good q red	12:36
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ruskie	red, I think you need to save it localy first	12:38
ruskie	atleast that's what a t.m.o post mentions	12:38
red	attempting that	12:38
red	but for some reason the links just time out, think ill go double check on desk pc if its dead links actually	12:39
red	seems odd	12:39
ruskie	use wget	12:39
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red	11 of the 13 links were dead	12:41
red	lmao :)	12:41
ruskie	rofl	12:41
red	guess i should notify the school tech support that wtf, update!	12:41
bilboed-pi	anyone had any issues with/voip ? Works fine from some wifi networks, but not from some others.	12:42
ruskie	or just "wtf" ;)	12:42
red	got the certificate now, but upon connectin to wlan it said the cert is invalid and check time/date settings	12:42
red	but it seems to be connected still, gonna test speedtest	12:42
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ruskie	bilboed-pi, I guess it depends how the ap routes the stuff and so on	12:42
swc\|666	bilboed-pi, probably a QoS issue	12:42
bilboed-pi	used to work fine on those networks with my Nokia N81	12:42
bilboed-pi	with the same account	12:43
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red	yay, once i've picked a certificate for a wlan connection	12:52
red	i cannot change that certificate since its stored	12:52
red	any way to "forget" connections?	12:52
red	or mm, they are not appearing in the certificate list	12:53
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red	how do i add them in command line as root? theres no add in the GUI	12:53
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ruskie	red, just open them in file manager	12:54
ruskie	that will auto add them	12:54
slonopotamus_	how i _delete_ locations from foreca weather? :)	12:54
red	ruskie: alright ty	12:54
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Corsac	slono_n900: ICBMs	12:57
ruskie	gah... this when silent mute anything and everything is annoying	12:59
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pdrummond	Hi everyone, first time on #maemo!	13:02
timeless_mbp	red: eh?	13:03
timeless_mbp	ruskie: it doesn't auto add, it should ask you to add them :)	13:03
ruskie	timeless_mbp, true	13:04
slono_n900	corsac, ?	13:04
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red	timeless_mbp: problem wasnt the phone, was the outdated certificate links in the intranet documentation	13:05
red	for some reason n900 doesnt automaticly get it	13:05
timeless_mbp	automatically get what?	13:05
red	certificate required for getting full connectivity via school wlan	13:06
slono_n900	meh, was cleaning up ~ on n800 and suddenly it started showing mouse cursor. anyone knows what should i put back to hide it?	13:06
red	can access intranet but not outside, unless certificates are correct	13:06
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red	works like a charm now, used wget in Downloads folder, installed the certificate via file manager as suggested	13:09
red	first wget them to user folder but the app couldnt access there hehe, work in vain :)	13:09
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pdrummond	Can anyone help me - trying to get zbarcam to work on N900 but it just displays a zbar logo when I run it?	13:10
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red	http://www.speedtest.net/result/654189718.png	13:11
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ruskie	red, yeah that's annoying not able to select anywhere outside of MyDocs or the sd	13:12
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red	whats the command line cmd to launch the file manager? wonder if by using sudo gainroot and launching it then u could get full access	13:13
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Micha_	pupnik: Thanks for re-highlighting that hack, works great.	13:14
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timeless_mbp	red: full access to what?	13:18
Khertan	the most annoying is that &é#!!!#&é"é& hildon chooser dialog which hide file extension	13:18
Khertan	and gtk.FileChooser is completely broken	13:18
timeless_mbp	Khertan: like every other user facing platform	13:18
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Khertan	timeless_mbp: i don't know any user facing platform which hide extension	13:19
Khertan	or at least it s an option	13:19
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pdrummond	ls	13:20
pdrummond	exit	13:20
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red	timeless_mbp: mail, http, etc	13:21
red	will not forward unless certificates are correct	13:21
red	the wlan here is quite strict	13:21
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red	same with connection, have to tunnel to get out with regular ssh	13:21
ShadowJK	huh, who would use the file manager for things where file extension matters	13:22
red	could I have run the certificate .cer just typing the filename in terminal?	13:22
red	or what is the program that handles installing them	13:22
ShadowJK	you don't run a certificate	13:22
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red	had no idea so i ran them thru file manager and worked	13:22
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Jiri-	Hello	13:30
Jiri-	can someone talk by trought step by step how to install p2p tranmission to my n900?	13:30
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red	Jiri-: do you know how to use the application manager?	13:34
Jiri-	i think so	13:35
red	i dont recall for sure, but if the transmission app isn't in extras-testing etc, it should appear in the "All" listing in there	13:35
Jiri-	it's not	13:36
Jiri-	thats the problem	13:36
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red	ill walk u thru in query	13:36
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/16/cops_need_warrant_to_search_cell_phone/ <_- hmm	14:02
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Corsac	ruskie: n900 is a mobile computer!	14:05
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Ceron	yes watch ouyt	14:10
Ceron	watch out soon they will take your "mobile computer" at the airfield	14:10
Ceron	its not a phone so they can take it!	14:10
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wazd_n800	heya all	14:11
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sivang	Ceron: right, it's a net-tablet :)	14:14
* sivang likes to call it that way		14:14
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wazd_n800	RST38h, around?)	14:16
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anpr	anyone from UK ? :)	14:34
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tigert	v2px_: see transitions.ini	14:35
v2px_	tigert: huh?	14:37
cosmo	anpr: i heard it snowed in london.. so probably all electricity and internet is out as people are panicing	14:37
tigert	v2px_: duh	14:40
cehteh	cosmo: lol .. even the tubes are out of service again? :)	14:40
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cosmo	they all probably have derailed	14:41
furunk3l	must...not...type...	14:41
furunk3l	soooo...tempting...	14:41
tigert	v2px_: looks like in current sw release the grid is not adjustable	14:42
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v2px_	tigert: ooh, thats sad. but i dont even have options in my transitions.ini	14:42
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tigert	yah, because its not implemented in this universe yet ;)	14:44
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tigert	transitions.ini has some other pretty cool stuff though :)	14:44
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RST38h	moo, tigert, all	14:45
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tigert	moo	14:46
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RST38h	wazd: heya	14:48
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tigert	thp: woo, update!	14:50
* tigert downloads		14:50
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zaheerm	it is snowing in london	14:52
zs	zaheerm: you call it snowing? :D	14:55
zaheerm	zs: well it has settled here in harrow	14:55
zaheerm	zs, and i see plenty of snow flakes out of the window	14:55
anpr	so guys, anyone from the UK ?	14:56
zs	anpr: me :)	14:57
Milo-	tekojo are you the one that's going to hold the Maemo Developing course at Metropolia university in feruary?	14:57
anpr	zs, hey, have some time ?	14:57
zs	anpr: it depends for what :P	14:58
v2px_	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djVaJN0f0VQ (sorry for OT but i had to post this)	15:04
* tigert lols at N900Fly app		15:05
RST38h	have you tested it already?	15:05
tigert	jutst 45cm :)	15:05
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tru_	hey. I am writing a share-plugin for a gallery service. I was just wondering how I can see the things I log with ULOG in the scratchbox environment?	15:06
tru_	it's kind of hard to debug without the logmessages :)	15:07
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* v2px_ installs n900fly		15:10
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v2px_	1.12m. beat that!	15:13
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bigon	https://git.maemo.org/ <<< ssl cert has exired :/	15:17
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ifreq	bad bad admin	15:18
toggles_w	anyone know why .bashrc isn't executed when starting a terminal? but it is on subsequent bash invokations?	15:19
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flux	toggles_w, I'm guessing you aren't starting bash when you're starting a terminal	15:20
flux	toggles_w, you could modify .profile instead	15:21
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flux	toggles_w, be warned though that some fellow needlessly complicated his life by adding an infinite loop into it..	15:21
toggles_w	flux: i dis a usermod -s /bin/bash user to set the default shell, but when started from the desktop shortcut it wont read .bashrc	15:21
sp3000	http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html#Bash-Startup-Files	15:21
flux	toggles_w, have you verified you are indeed running bash?	15:21
toggles_w	flux: $SHELL says so	15:22
flux	toggles_w, how about ls -l /proc/$$/exe ?	15:22
toggles_w	yeah, points to bash	15:22
sp3000	see manual	15:22
flux	I shall concede then and point to sp's piece of advice :)	15:22
sp3000	i.e. you're probably getting a login shell initially	15:23
tru_	Anyone knows where logmessages from ULOG ends up?	15:23
tru_	I can't find them.	15:23
andras	hello, can somebody tell me which package do I need to install in scratchbox in order to get gpsfake?	15:24
sp3000	I'd guesstimate something in the ballpark of syslog and/or stdoutish?	15:24
andras	Of course, I have already Googled it, and found that the package is gpsd	15:25
sp3000	syslog of course isn't installed by default, at least historically I think the tools repo had it	15:25
toggles_w	sp3000: yeah, thanks, I copied the bit from .profile on ubuntu in and it works, thanks again	15:25
sp3000	np	15:25
toggles_w	flux: thanks too!	15:25
tru_	sp3000: it doesn't end up in syslog anyway. not as far as I can see.	15:25
sp3000	hm, ok	15:27
* sp3000 doesn't really ULOG :)		15:27
tru_	what do you use then? :)	15:27
sp3000	I don't have time to touch code :)	15:27
tru_	ah.	15:27
tru_	A bit annoying that I can't find documentation for it.	15:28
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sp3000	well except for uninformed merges and such exciting things	15:28
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_berto_	what happens to garage? it's terribly slow here	15:29
adeus	acting like it always does	15:29
_berto_	I think it's specially slower today	15:30
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DocScrutinizer51	same snail as yesterday	15:31
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timeless_mbp	_berto_: it's been slow for months :)	15:34
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smaug	Does anyone happen to know when there will be some update to N900. Would be great to get a working email reader (hoping the update will fix the problems)	15:48
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timeless_mbp	smaug: sorry	15:48
timeless_mbp	that's a secret, even the managers here don't know :)	15:48
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w00t	timeless_mbp: haha	15:49
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timeless_mbp	w00t: it means they can't accidentally leak the wrong date :)	15:52
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w00t	psh, the more amusing approach is to tell everyone a different date and then see which date leaks :)	15:53
* timeless_mbp nods		15:53
_berto_	timeless_mbp: garage is probably still running on an n800, i thought they were going to replace it with an n900 now that it's out	15:53
timeless_mbp	_berto_: there was a device shortage	15:53
timeless_mbp	there's a waiting list for internals to get them	15:53
wazd_n801	w00t: that's what apple does)	15:53
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derf	I thought the recent upgrade to garage was from a 770 to an N800.	15:56
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_berto_	derf: that was 2 years ago	15:56
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derf	Maybe they got a second N800.	15:57
derf	For load balancing.	15:57
_berto_	or replaced it with an N810 thinking it was going to be faster	15:57
derf	Or just upgraded it to OS2008 for the clock speed bump.	15:57
* RST38h moos with passion		15:58
RST38h	Whoever wanted mapping software, check Maep. It rules (when author fixes it of course)	15:58
wazd_n801	maep?) nice name	15:59
derf	Isn't that the same state Maemo Mapper is in?	15:59
derf	"This would be great if you hadn't added all those bugs."	15:59
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Lynoure	This is not directly a maemo question, but I'm trying to find some GPL (or other free) .wav files to use as sound effects in my maemo app, any idea where one finds them?	16:04
* SpeedEvil farts in Lynoures general direction, and records it under cc-by-sa.		16:05
stevenhong	have nokia give up the support for the os2008?	16:05
SpeedEvil	http://www.freesound.org/ ? a google reverals	16:05
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Lynoure	SpeedEvil: I tried googling, but got baffled by the 5 kinds of 'free'	16:07
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stevenhong	have anyone boot the system in mmc card?	16:07
Lynoure	SpeedEvil: your fart would do just fine for dev purposes :)	16:07
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: s/reverals/reveals/ ?	16:07
SpeedEvil	yes	16:09
SpeedEvil	My fingers are cod.	16:09
SpeedEvil	cold.	16:09
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joppu	red: sulx4: It's now in armel-devel, autobuilder was just being too goddamn slow.	16:14
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red	joppu: downloaded and installed with 1 error, but seems to be working	16:26
red	changed background background thought	16:27
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red	and I think the gloss is wee bit too bright, id reduce it 25% (or create a glossy darker :>)	16:27
red	or perhaps not by as much as 25%, but slightly	16:27
red	but nice work still, defo 2nd best theme for now, and if there ever comes a darker one i'll surely use it	16:28
red	for now I prefer the digital life orange colours to the cold blue, but props for the nice button gfx	16:28
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pupnik	ustream vs qik http://www.adonismobile.com/2008/12/ustreamtv-prepping-mobile-client.html	16:32
joppu	red: there should be a horrible bug on the Conversations, otherwise it should work really well	16:32
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LuciusMare	hi	16:33
LuciusMare	i heard of these bricks and i am not sure if iunderstood it right - does n900 support "dead charging" ? - Totally uncharged battery but charging through the mobile.	16:34
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LuciusMare	And, i heard that there is a mplayer port, but "it is unsure if it uses the DSP unit of n900 which accelerates the playing"	16:35
X-Fade	konttori_nokia: ping?	16:36
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konttori_nokia	X-Fade, pong	16:37
konttori_nokia	sup?	16:37
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joppu	LuciusMare: I highly doubt that it'd use DSP	16:47
joppu	konttori_nokia: first Theme Maker theme now in devel o/	16:48
konttori_nokia	joppu, great!	16:48
konttori_nokia	wohoo!	16:48
Macer	wow seriously this freenode crap	16:49
Macer	in the middle of a conversation and 20 people split off	16:49
timeless_mbp	Macer: you'd prefer for two n810wimax devices to host maemonet?	16:49
w00t	Macer: they're under rather heavy ddos (yes, still)	16:49
Macer	timeless_mbp: they would probably work better :)	16:50
Macer	timeless_mbp: or a jabber conference heh	16:50
Macer	w00t: is that what that is? i figured someone tripped over a cable	16:50
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w00t	Macer: aye	16:50
Macer	damn taiwan	16:50
Macer	it's always china or taiwan	16:50
hrw	morning	16:50
Macer	ah well. shower time	16:51
joppu	damn cyber warfare	16:51
redeeman	someone should just cut the chinese off for good	16:51
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redeeman	itss not as if the chinese people arent already	16:51
hrw	finally sent N900 back to DDP. replacement will be sent tomorrow	16:51
timeless_mbp	hrw: thanks for the update	16:52
timeless_mbp	sorry about the pain	16:52
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timeless_mbp	otoh, it could be worse, my 'red' n900 is still sitting on a table here	16:52
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hrw	timeless_mbp: things happens. good side is that it was catched on first week	16:53
w00t	timeless_mbp: ..red?	16:53
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timeless_mbp	w00t: well, devices have to have names	16:57
timeless_mbp	one n900 was 'green' (running a green theme)	16:57
timeless_mbp	and one n900 was 'red' (running the digital nature orange theme)	16:58
timeless_mbp	each one had a colored tab sticking out w/ red, green, etc	16:58
timeless_mbp	so i could just look at the tab to identify the given n900	16:58
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timeless_mbp	when you work in an office w/ >100 n900s, it helps to label them	16:58
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w00t	hehe	16:58
LuciusMare	interesting :)	16:59
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LuciusMare	i want a pink n800	17:01
pupnik	spraypaint	17:01
LuciusMare	lol	17:01
pupnik	anybody manage to get a nice stream from camera ?	17:01
cehteh	i want a black n900	17:02
LuciusMare	cehteh: rock off!	17:02
jebba	pupnik: not from front camera... driver bug it looks like	17:02
* andre__ should take a photo of the "Lego Brickmaster" advertisements around here - might describe the position of some people quite well		17:02
pupnik	jebba: qik solved it somehow. but we have no v4l?	17:03
LuciusMare	and,i heard rumours 'bout failing BT while trying to connect to wifi...	17:03
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jebba	pupnik: ah, i thought you were talking about the front (screen) camera.	17:03
jebba	pupnik: try: mplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video0	17:04
pupnik	ty trying	17:04
pupnik	when i find device	17:04
jebba	heh	17:04
pupnik	kinda works!	17:05
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pupnik	nice speed	17:06
* pupnik ponders netcat		17:06
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tru_	anyone know how to use OSSOLOG? I can't seem to get the message anywhere (this is in scratchbox)	17:07
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pupnik	hey jebba we could do this maybe? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26288	17:09
pupnik	BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) built-in shell (ash)	17:10
pupnik	Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.	17:10
pupnik	Nokia-N900-42-11:/root$ gst-launch-0.10 -v v4l2src ! 'video/x-raw-yuv,width=320,height=240,framerate=8/1' ! ffmpegcolorspace ! jpegenc ! tcpserversink host=$DESKTOP_HOST port=5434	17:10
pupnik	oops too many	17:10
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pupnik	ERROR: from element /GstPipeline:pipeline0/GstV4l2Src:v4l2src0: Could not negotiate format	17:11
pupnik	need to enquire supported format?	17:11
Micha_	is garage always really really slow?	17:12
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jebba	pupnik: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#mplayer	17:12
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pupnik	GstPipeline:pipeline0/GstV4l2Src:v4l2src0.GstPad:src: caps = video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)YUY2, width=(int)2592, height=(int)1968, framerate=(fraction)323/25	17:13
pupnik	hehe heh heh	17:13
jebba	ah cool.	17:14
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pupnik	very cool page there jebba	17:16
jebba	thx	17:16
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red	joppu so any chance for darker version? =)	17:23
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SpeedEvil	woo. /me finds spare bl5j down back of sofa.	17:29
* SpeedEvil discharges, and places in fridge.		17:29
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red	would last.fm scrobbling be hard to do?	17:39
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joppu	red: perhaps, perhaps. It'd be actually be pretty trivial to change the color values, but I don't know, I kinda like it the way it is :D	17:41
joppu	I'll see about it	17:41
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Milo-	alt button could be handy for the keyboard	18:14
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pupnik	what would you remove	18:16
Milo-	nothing	18:17
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Milo-	except no	18:17
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Milo-	wait. yes	18:17
sp3000	X-Fade: hash sum mimatch time! (extras-testing)	18:17
Milo-	shift+2nd	18:17
sp3000	mismatch even	18:17
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Milo-	which is the main grapchics library for maemo? qt or gtk?	18:18
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Milo-	developer's guide talks about gtk	18:18
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Milo-	but nokia is qt-fan	18:19
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mgedmin	I wish xchat detected splits (more than N joins/splits in a row) and collapsed them in its scrollback	18:19
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mgedmin	Milo-, gtk for maemo 5, qt for the upcoming maemo 6	18:19
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mgedmin	you can also use qt for maemo 5 or gtk for maemo 6 if you so desire	18:19
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Milo-	mgedmin just ignore all joins/parts/quits	18:20
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Milo-	mgedmin okay	18:20
Milo-	need tp	18:20
Milo-	need to learn gtk then	18:20
Milo-	w	18:20
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saimon	hi all. I ve reached 95% on my rootfs. my question is. i lost the ability to install non optified apps but can i still install optified ones?	18:20
Milo-	this keyboard is slightly harder than e71's	18:21
SpeedEvil	I like the keyboard mostly.	18:21
SpeedEvil	Though I have not had a similar sized device	18:21
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Milo-	hard to reach / and first 5 numbers	18:22
Milo-	and -	18:22
mgedmin	saimon, you need at least _some_ free space in / so that apt/dpkg can rewrite their "database" files	18:23
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Milo-	I got 25mb	18:24
Milo-	sounds small	18:24
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mgedmin	oooh, you rich person!	18:24
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mgedmin	I had about 3 megs left on my old n900	18:24
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mgedmin	well, the log-structured filesystem used on the n[89x0 is a bit weird: it does garbage collection in background/on reboot	18:25
mgedmin	if you delete a lot of files, it takes a while for the free space to appear	18:25
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timeless_mbp	and files only die if no one is using them	18:25
timeless_mbp	which is often not the case	18:25
timeless_mbp	(gtk theme icon cache!)	18:25
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mgedmin	I restored from backup on my new N900, tried to install all the apps	18:26
mgedmin	ran out of space	18:26
mgedmin	then apt-get removed half of them	18:26
mgedmin	apt said it would free 28 megs	18:26
mgedmin	df said I had 2.5 megs free when apt was done	18:26
mgedmin	reboot -> suddenly I have 49 megs free	18:26
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mgedmin	some of the apps were optified, so I dunno how much of those 28 apt's megs were in root	18:26
mgedmin	also, apt tends to lie about the size of python packages	18:27
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timeless_mbp	my impression is that sizes are purely advisory	18:27
mgedmin	and ubifs compresses data, so accurate free space calculations are basically impossible	18:27
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timeless_mbp	plus the rootfs includes compression	18:27
Milo-	has anyone optified their maemo maps yet?	18:27
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timeless_mbp	Milo-: what's the point?	18:27
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timeless_mbp	maps the data lives in vfat	18:27
Milo-	10 mb out of rootfs	18:28
timeless_mbp	that's how it's possible to use the nokia maps downloader from windows	18:28
timeless_mbp	oh	18:28
Milo-	don't have windows	18:28
Milo-	don't care for windows	18:28
timeless_mbp	Milo-: does that include the maps localization stuff? :)	18:28
Milo-	windows can burn in hell	18:28
timeless_mbp	if you want space, i'd suggest trashing all the non english+your language locales	18:28
timeless_mbp	or optifying that	18:29
Milo-	timeless_mbp just the usr share maemo maps	18:29
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AbstractW	Whats the status of a google maps vs ovi maps?	18:29
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SpeedEvil	google maps app does not exist	18:30
SpeedEvil	the website 'works'	18:30
Milo-	weirdly. ovi maps actually worked	18:30
AbstractW	heh.	18:30
Milo-	unlike in e71	18:30
SpeedEvil	ovi maps has worked for me mostly	18:30
Ceron	how to check size of rootfs	18:30
Ceron	im intrested to know if im filling it up	18:30
SpeedEvil	it's about -> <- this big	18:30
SpeedEvil	more seriously.	18:31
Milo-	Ceron xterm df -h	18:31
SpeedEvil	there is a 'diskspace' app in extras-devel	18:31
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SpeedEvil	which is pretty idiot proof	18:31
Milo-	so is df	18:31
SpeedEvil	true	18:31
mgedmin	also useful: stat -f /	18:31
mgedmin	df says 0 when there's really a few megs left	18:31
SpeedEvil	dumpfs!	18:32
mgedmin	the old "reserved for root" trick	18:32
SpeedEvil	:)	18:32
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mgedmin	I want an app that (a) goes through all user/* apps, (b) computes which non-user/ libraries are used by those apps and could be removed if that app is uninstalled, (c) for each app computes how much rootfs space that app would free if uninstalled	18:33
mgedmin	for bonus points, (d) have an uninstall button/menu command	18:33
SpeedEvil	Also a way to report if your device won't boot afterwards.	18:34
Milo-	mgedmin du + rm :)	18:34
mgedmin	user/* apps!	18:34
mgedmin	you can't brick your device by removing packages from the user/* section	18:34
mgedmin	unless someone does an rm -rf / in their postrm script by mistake	18:34
* mgedmin has a pytohn script that does (a) and (c), but ignores (b)		18:35
Milo-	I wish I could see timestamps using ssh+irssi	18:35
SpeedEvil	Milo: you can	18:35
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mgedmin	so app that depends on many libraries gets the size undersetimated	18:35
SpeedEvil	Milo: you can ask it to do that	18:35
mgedmin	s/set/est/	18:35
infobot	mgedmin meant: so app that depends on many libraries gets the size underestimated	18:35
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SpeedEvil	milo: or at least you can with bitchX, I assume irssi can do it too	18:35
Milo-	SpeedEvil how?	18:35
* fcrozat saw some ubifs corruption on syslog		18:35
fcrozat	is it known / normal ?	18:35
SpeedEvil	Milo-: some /set I'd imagine	18:35
Milo-	eh, they work	18:36
Milo-	but in my maemo.	18:36
SpeedEvil	http://irssi.org/documentation/faq	18:36
Milo-	they don't, wrong color somehow	18:36
SpeedEvil	ah	18:36
mgedmin	fcrozat, did your tablet crash?	18:36
SpeedEvil	you should also be able to set the colour I'd imagine	18:36
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fcrozat	mgedmin: no. But I have ldconfig crashing with "bus error" . It seems to started when python got installed by omweather	18:37
mgedmin	interesting	18:37
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Milo-	I keep.pressing enter when I try to press bakckspace	18:37
fcrozat	not sure it is related	18:37
Milo-	speethat is done with themes and I like my theme	18:37
Milo-	SpeedEvil even	18:37
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mgedmin	whoa/wtf	18:38
mgedmin	so, I have two n900's	18:38
ml-N900	hmm	18:38
Milo-	maemo's xtermMs colour support isn't extensive enough	18:38
mgedmin	lacking fantasy for hostnames I named one mg-n900 and the other mg-n900-2	18:38
mgedmin	both have avahi	18:38
Milo-	xterm's	18:38
mgedmin	the first one is offline now	18:38
ml-N900	disabling off mode seems to have stopped the reboots	18:38
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Milo-	lots of typos	18:38
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mgedmin	the second one advertises itself over mDNS as mg-n900-3	18:38
mgedmin	why 3???	18:38
anpr	heya	18:38
mgedmin	some magic autoincrement	18:39
AbstractW	Kein Mittleid Für Die Mehrheit.	18:39
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AbstractW	mgedmin: Why do you need more than one N900?	18:40
redeeman	one for each hand ofc!	18:40
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arachnist	AbstractW: cluster :)	18:43
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Lantizia	Hey, should debian arm packages work? or do they have to be armel?	18:45
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Lantizia	Hey, should debian arm packages work? or do they have to be armel?	18:47
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Lantizia	net split?	18:47
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GAN900	Lantizia, it's armel and, in general, no, they wont work.	18:47
Lantizia	ok :D	18:47
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ruskie	Lantizia, rebuild them in scratchbox :)	18:47
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Lantizia	GAN900 see I'd like to use axel... but etch didn't do armel and lenny's version needs later version of something	18:48
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Lantizia	ruskie: have a nice linky to show me how?	18:48
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SpeedEvil	Milo-: err - no	18:48
SpeedEvil	Milo-: you modify the irssi config - you can setup UI colours	18:48
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SpeedEvil	edit the theme maybe?	18:48
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ruskie	Lantizia, should be something on t.m.o	18:49
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tbf	tigert: konttori: is the melody theme available for download?	18:49
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mgedmin	to be fair I have an mDNS reflector running on the gateway between wireless and ethernet LANs...	18:49
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Lantizia	t.m.o?	18:49
ruskie	Lantizia, trying to find it	18:49
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mgedmin	Lantizia, freenode is being DDoSed, heavy netsplits predicted with possible rain	18:50
SpeedEvil	Or snow in colder areas.	18:50
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* mgedmin glances at the -14°C displayed in his weather applet and shivers		18:51
tbf	boah! so awesome. i can by a botnet for 10 rubels and DDoS an IRC network	18:51
* SpeedEvil glances at the indoor thermometer reading 6.5C.		18:51
ruskie	Lantizia, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37144 read through that it should apply for the rest	18:51
tbf	awesome those evil h4x0r k1dz those days	18:51
ruskie	Lantizia, talk.maemo.org :)	18:52
SpeedEvil	Alas, not inaccurate.	18:52
* SpeedEvil is having cashflow problems ATM.		18:52
SpeedEvil	electric blankets++	18:53
mgedmin	ouchouchouchouchouch	18:53
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Milo-	SpeedEvil my irssi's timestamp colour is gray	18:53
Milo-	and that colour isn't showed in maemo's xterm	18:54
tbf	mgedmin: don't scare me that the freeze has reached baltic states already...	18:54
tbf	...that's less than 1000 km remaining and weather passes poland's flatlands quickly	18:54
SpeedEvil	Milo-: that is an issue - but the seperate one is you might alter all the grays into a colour which renders - rather than waiting on a fix to oso-term	18:54
Milo-	GPE calendar is nice, except its UI isn't good for maemo :/	18:54
mgedmin	what's the command to display all colours in an xterm? I think Eterm came with a shell script for that...	18:55
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Milo-	write a printf("\033[22;30mHello, world!\n"); printf("\033[22;31mHello, world!\n")	18:56
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fcrozat	same ldconfig crash after a reboot :(	18:56
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Lantizia	ruskie: ok read your 8 step guide.. am I doing that on the N900 itself?	18:57
_berto_	Jaffa: vagalume 0.8.1 is out, this one should work for those of you without a subscription - http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/v/vagalume/	18:57
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Milo-	Micha_ you can test the colours by incrementing that 30m from 29 to 40 or so :)	18:58
mgedmin	grey on white is visible in osso-xterm, but barely	18:58
* mgedmin did vim +'ru syntax/colortest.vim'		18:58
Milo-	I use black background	18:58
Milo-	can't stand black on white	18:58
mgedmin	darkgray on black -- invisible for me	18:58
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mgedmin	all the colours look rather hard to see on a black background	18:59
mgedmin	good for me that I use a white one ;)	18:59
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tbf	Milo-: cellar dweller :-p	19:01
AndrewFBlack	_berto_, I wonder if it will fix my problem of network conection erros	19:01
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Milo-	tbf white console is as artistic as umm	19:01
Milo-	well, obviously I'm not an artist..	19:02
_berto_	AndrewFBlack: don't know, just try it and tell me if it doesn't work	19:02
Milo-	so lets say dog biting your nuts off..	19:02
Milo-	it sounds equally painful	19:02
AndrewFBlack	_berto_, ok I was having the problem with both last.fm and libre.fm	19:02
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_berto_	AndrewFBlack: then that's a different issue :?	19:03
_berto_	AndrewFBlack: do other last.fm clients work for you ?	19:03
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AndrewFBlack	are there other last.fm clients on phone	19:03
Milo-	the vim you can download and install from extras is hardly vim	19:04
Milo-	it's more like vi :/	19:04
mgedmin	hell, no!	19:04
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mgedmin	Milo-, the vim from extras is full-fledged vim with all kinds of goodies	19:04
mgedmin	make sure you start it as vim and not vi, though	19:04
Milo-	alias vi='vim'	19:04
Milo-	._·	19:04
mgedmin	or you'll get the busybox vi that came preinstalled with the os	19:04
Milo-	but yes, started with vim and backspace won't work, (replace mode-like behaviour)	19:05
mgedmin	duh, that's vim	19:05
mgedmin	:set nocompatible	19:05
mgedmin	if you don't want it to emulate vi	19:05
mgedmin	and set bs=2	19:05
mgedmin	etc.	19:05
Milo-	oh yeah it has no .vimrc :P	19:05
mgedmin	some distros ship /etc/vim/vimrc and change vim's defaults	19:05
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Milo-	gentoo gives those automatically :)	19:05
_berto_	AndrewFBlack: I mean a desktop client	19:05
mgedmin	then people get used to that distro's customizations	19:05
Milo-	^^	19:06
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mgedmin	and become confused when they try upstream vim	19:06
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AndrewFBlack	_berto_, the website works from my desktops	19:06
Milo-	see..	19:06
Milo-	:)	19:06
jeremiah	vi == sign of the beast	19:06
Milo-	lets quickly pastebin my vimrc	19:06
Milo-	and wget it	19:06
Milo-	oh	19:06
mgedmin	scp rules	19:06
Milo-	don't have wget.	19:06
mgedmin	it's in extras	19:07
mgedmin	iirc	19:07
mgedmin	and by "extras" I mean ...	19:07
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mgedmin	extras-devel	19:07
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mgedmin	it's also in fremantle/tools	19:07
Milo-	:P	19:08
Milo-	lots of script in .vimrc	19:08
Milo-	I bet that won't work	19:08
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Milo-	vim works :)	19:12
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Milo-	now it's a tool, as it's supposed to be	19:13
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ruskie	Lantizia, no	19:13
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tbf	i wonder how to easily find a free FM band for the FM transmitter	19:18
AbstractW	From what I hear, the FM transmitter is not so good.	19:18
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tbf	berlin has way too many FM stations. seemingly every 0.3 MHz there is one	19:18
wazd_n800	re-heya all	19:18
AndrewFBlack	_berto_, any idea on network connection error	19:19
tbf	AbstractW: no idea. IF you found a free band it sounds great	19:19
tbf	AbstractW: better than the commercial FM stations here...	19:19
tbf	...but that could be 'cause the FM stations are packed too densely	19:20
mgedmin	yeah, I wasn't thrilled by the FM transmitter	19:20
AbstractW	Heh.	19:20
AbstractW	Wow.	19:20
_berto_	AndrewFBlack: it's very strange if it fails on both cases	19:20
_berto_	AndrewFBlack: can you run it from an xterm ?	19:21
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mgedmin	aren't FM stations usually spaced 0.5 MHz apart?	19:21
_berto_	mgedmin: not necessarily	19:21
tbf	mgedmin: probably in sane areas, but not here in berlin	19:21
mgedmin	:)	19:21
_berto_	not here (Galicia) either	19:21
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AndrewFBlack	_berto_, application loads from xterm but still get error when I try to play something	19:22
mgedmin	some kind of reverse-autotuning (find a frequency as far as possible from any fm station) would be nice	19:22
_berto_	but can you see the error messages on the xterm?	19:22
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tbf	mgedmin: after a first scan it still should check for the frequency with minimum noise	19:22
AndrewFBlack	not showing any	19:23
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Lantizia	ruskie: so it needs to be done on a debian etch machine?	19:23
AbstractW	GUI development possible on pymaemo like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PF3Jp1MNnc :)	19:23
Lantizia	ruskie: how does it know to compile for maemo 5 dependancies then?	19:23
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ruskie	Lantizia, no on a system with the SDK running :)	19:24
tbf	mgedmin: the closer you come to berlin's border the more noise from stations from brandenburg you get...	19:24
_berto_	then I don't know	19:24
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ruskie	Lantizia, inside of the SDK	19:24
tbf	maybe just the output power of the FMTX is too low?	19:24
tbf	(damn regulations in that case)	19:24
Lantizia	ruskie: ah so you enter some kind of SDK prompt?	19:24
Lantizia	ruskie: not installed the SDK yet - stuck at work on a windows prompt	19:24
AndrewFBlack	wait I sudo gainroot then reopened it and I got a unable to intialize DBUS when i opened it	19:24
_berto_	don't know if it works as root	19:25
_berto_	you should launch it with 'user'	19:25
pupnik	mgedmin: great idea	19:25
jebba	NOTE! WELL! LOOK! You will get a brick if you reboot 17 times without powering off completely!!! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37431	19:25
mgedmin	jebba, is there a bug in bugs.maemo.org?	19:25
pupnik	let's see if fm tuner has a signal quality report	19:25
_berto_	what ?	19:25
jebba	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350#c39 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019	19:25
povbot	Bug 6350: getbootstate bricks the device after 50 reboots if there are no normal boots in between them	19:25
povbot	Bug 7019: Release source code of "getbootstate"	19:25
pupnik	ty for warning	19:26
AndrewFBlack	ok lanchingas user doesn´t show message	19:26
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mgedmin	whoa, fun bug	19:26
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yuizy	19:18:13 <@hequ> the item and plus the shipment to my Wife in Africa.Mail me	19:28
yuizy	oops	19:28
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yuizy	:P	19:28
ruskie	Lantizia, something like that	19:30
LuciusMare	aw,man	19:30
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LuciusMare	i still keep reading about new and new android devices	19:31
LuciusMare	i am rethinking my decision to buy n900	19:31
AbstractW	Whys that, LuciusMare?	19:31
AbstractW	Just read about the nexus one?	19:31
AbstractW	The grass will always be greener on the other side.	19:32
ruskie	that nexus one reminds me of a palm device	19:32
LuciusMare	yup,and also tablet with android,not mentioning motodroid.	19:32
ruskie	seriously looks like a palm device	19:32
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AbstractW	I'd rather have a nokia phone, than a google phone.	19:33
jebba	android is lame java blah	19:33
jebba	this thing is like running ubuntu practically (including non-free shiite which breaks things).	19:33
AbstractW	I'll take python over java, please.	19:33
* jebba notes the 17 reboot BRICK is part of non-free code.		19:33
wazd_n801	I'm thinking of ordering Pandora)	19:34
AbstractW	You're kidding... pymaemo has non-free components?! ><	19:34
LuciusMare	they released a sdk that makes you able to code in native code	19:34
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wazd_n801	LuciusMare, go and buy android	19:35
jebba	AbstractW: i dont know of anything non-free in pymaeom	19:35
wazd_n801	LuciusMare, what else do you want	19:35
igagis_	LuciusMare: with this SDK you can only code some abstract algorithms. You cannot access any peripherial devices etc...	19:35
LuciusMare	oh	19:35
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AbstractW	jebba: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation_device.html they say you need the non-free repository component ><	19:35
LuciusMare	i rethink my decision of rethinking my decision.	19:35
lardman	evening	19:35
* RST38h yawns		19:36
crashanddie	eveng lardman	19:36
AbstractW	Why is garage.maemo.org so slow today?	19:36
lardman	hey crashanddie	19:36
igagis_	I worked with android on my recent job, can't say I like android... after that	19:36
lardman	AbstractW: s/today/always	19:36
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Guest89658	AbstractW: you don't need it , it is just the "standard line" :) PyMaemo does not use anything from there	19:36
crashanddie	AbstractW: solar flares are interfering with the magnetic poles and causing major traffic issues on the backbones	19:36
AbstractW	hehehe.	19:37
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AbstractW	I assume I should be using the Maemo SDK Virtual Image, 2nd Edition?	19:37
AbstractW	Is garage.maemo.org running off of an N900? :P	19:38
lardman	AbstractW: 770	19:39
lardman	actually two of them	19:39
AbstractW	I knew it! :)	19:39
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_berto_	lardman: no, no	19:41
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_berto_	lardman: they upgraded to an n810 2 years ago	19:41
AbstractW	hah.	19:41
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_berto_	but today is specially slow	19:42
lardman	ah I see :)	19:43
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* lardman wonders if the two retired 770s could also be brought online		19:43
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pupnik	igagis_: can you explain a little what you didn't like?	19:43
Anupras	hello guys, i have 1 question	19:43
Anupras	i was using vodafone connection	19:43
samppa	yes maemo.org is currently veeery slow, slower than usual :)	19:43
Anupras	and when i pressed to check available connection, my n900 showed me quickly available wlan and vodafone	19:44
Anupras	i tried to connect one wlan connection, got connected and disconnected, because of bad signal after about 1 minute	19:44
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RST38h	ohmygod theyhavegotjavainstalled	19:44
RST38h	we are all gonna die.	19:44
Anupras	and now it takes a while for n900 to check connection and it finds only vodafone and still after a while	19:45
Anupras	what happened?	19:45
wazd_n801	woo, my ddp n900 is finaly on its way to someone)	19:45
igagis_	pupnik: well, the opinion formed after working with android is that it is very well designed to implement all sorts of menus, dialogs, etc. But implementing some custom task is hard or even impossible	19:45
samppa	RST38h: i red that you also had some problems with libpulse in extras ?	19:45
wazd_n801	RST38h, ponies!	19:45
igagis_	pupnik: for example, I have no idea how to implement app similar to my Theremin app for maemo on android	19:45
pupnik	aha, ty!	19:46
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RST38h	samppa: Yea, somebody keworked libpulse0test	19:46
RST38h	Is it back?	19:46
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wazd_n801	android is a sister of WebOS	19:46
samppa	RST38h: well my package (mplayer) says it has missing depencies now	19:47
Anupras	guys anyone knows ?	19:47
wazd_n801	speaking of UI	19:47
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samppa	RST38h: shouldn't libpulse be part of SDK ?	19:47
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nhg1	Does anyone know if Maemo has packages needed to decode AAC audio? (such as gstreamer plugins for FFMPEG/MAD etc).	19:47
lardman	X-Fade: you about?	19:48
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lardman	does anyone know who pushed fort77 to diablo-extras-dev ?	19:49
lardman	January 2009	19:49
* lardman wonders if it was him		19:49
_berto_	nhg1: there's the nokiaaacdec GStreamer plugin	19:50
_berto_	nhg1: so I imagine that's a yes ;)	19:50
Anupras	can anyone help me a lit ?	19:50
nhg1	_berto_: thanks...is there some site where I can look at these packages? maemo newb.	19:50
mgedmin	how can I see the reboot counter?	19:50
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jebba	mgedmin: very good question. Let me know if you find out.	19:51
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RST38h	samppa: I think they screwed it up in the sdk somehow	19:52
_berto_	nhg1: http://pastebin.com/mf2a89d9	19:52
RST38h	samppa: I am not entirely sure what the problem is though. May need to catch jeremiah.	19:53
Ceron	any new intresting map application	19:53
Ceron	for the n900	19:53
Ceron	O_o	19:53
Ceron	like a navigator program	19:53
Ceron	Maep = awsome map software	19:53
Ceron	works great on the n900	19:53
ifreq	widget is also nice	19:54
ifreq	:)	19:54
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samppa	RST38h: ok	19:54
Corsac	woouuh	19:55
Corsac	got mine	19:55
mgedmin	jebba, cat /var/lib/dsme/boot_count	19:56
Corsac	hmh, the battery cover looks hard to remove	19:56
ifreq	Corsac: just rtfm	19:56
ifreq	:)	19:56
nhg1	_berto_: didn't see the AAC plugin on your pastebin...where would I need to get it from?	19:56
_berto_	nhg1: it's in the gstreamer0.10-nokia-speech package	19:57
Corsac	ifreq: the fm only says to put the finger in the hole :)	19:57
_berto_	nhg1: it's closed-source	19:57
nhg1	oh ok	19:57
mgedmin	Corsac, yep, the cover is very unfriendly	19:57
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nhg1	yes...was looking for an opensource plugin like ffmpeg or mad....I thought they're standard gstreamer packages...but not sure	19:58
_berto_	nhg1: those ones are not installed	19:58
ifreq	Corsac: heh okay :)	19:58
orbarron	_berto_: does mer have a solution for this...	19:59
nhg1	_berto_: was that listing from your N900?	19:59
Corsac	I'm scared to break the cover	19:59
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guido_g	hi all, any idea where to find the chat logs (history)?	20:00
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crashanddie	guido_g: check the /topic?	20:02
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lcuk	Corsac, taking the back cover off?	20:03
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lcuk	get your stylus, shove it into the thumbslot thingy and twist a bit, feels less like you are snapping it	20:03
Corsac	yep	20:03
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guido_g	crashanddie: sorry, i've been a bit unclear, where to find the files in the filesystem where the chat logs are stored	20:04
Corsac	yeah, it's done	20:04
Corsac	I was a bit scare	20:04
lcuk	i shove it about 3 inches in and lid totally pops off	20:04
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Corsac	ok, the nokia hands video is scary indeed :)	20:04
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ifreq	Corsac: it can be changed to anything you want tho	20:05
ifreq	=)	20:05
_berto_	nhg1: no, not from mine	20:05
_berto_	nhg1: someone else pasted it there	20:05
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Anupras	guys	20:07
Anupras	i was using 3gconnection and today tried wifi, got connected and disconnected after 1 min (bad signal) after that it takes a while for search connections and it doesnt find any wlan connection just 3g	20:08
Anupras	and even to find voda 3g connection it takes a while	20:09
Anupras	any clues why?	20:09
nhg1	_berto_: ok thx	20:10
Anupras	oh....	20:11
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nhg1	Maemo has a package repository with a listing of all the packages available? Is it the maemo garage?	20:15
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Jaffa	nhg1: http://maemo.org/packages/	20:18
Jaffa	_berto_: Cool	20:19
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fnordianslip	woohoo. conky now in extras-devel. it lives	20:20
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ifreq	goodie	20:21
ifreq	i could move my test conkycf to phone now..	20:21
fnordianslip	ifreq: are you gonna try it? please first try copying the example conf from /opt	20:21
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fnordianslip	and using that. it does use the droid fonts	20:22
ifreq	ah ok. ill test it later	20:22
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fnordianslip	and it doesn't yet work as a widget, just standalone app	20:22
mgedmin	did anybody ever find app manager's categories useful?	20:22
mgedmin	every time I try to guess, I guess wrong	20:23
mgedmin	e.g. now I'm looking for crash-reporter, thought it'd be in System, alas no	20:23
mgedmin	no clue where to look for it (Other? Utilities? Programming?)	20:23
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mgedmin	Other, apparently	20:24
mgedmin	although I don't know which one of the two "Other" categories	20:24
Corsac	wow, 42-11	20:25
Corsac	that's old	20:25
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aspidites	lol @ conky on N900	20:28
fnordianslip	conky - http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/screenshot07.png	20:30
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toggles_2	lol	20:31
Ceron	rootfs 54.3m available	20:32
Ceron	:P	20:32
Ceron	is that good?	20:32
fnordianslip	better than mine	20:32
Ceron	i have used 2 gigs of 27gb :D	20:33
ml-N900	67.6!	20:33
fnordianslip	of course i can't install my conky deb from the repo cos its buggered right now	20:33
Ceron	on /dev/mmcblk0p1	20:33
Ceron	ml-N900: installed any aps?	20:33
Ceron	apps*	20:33
fnordianslip	i've used 25GB of mine	20:33
Ceron	LOL :P	20:33
ml-N900	xchat, ruby, vnc	20:33
Ceron	is there any rdp client	20:34
mgedmin	cool	20:34
Ceron	for n900	20:34
mgedmin	Ceron, I've seen rdesktop in one of the extras variants	20:34
ml-N900	there is, I believe	20:34
Ceron	is it optified	20:34
mgedmin	extras-devel	20:34
Ceron	dont want to use more of my rootfs :\	20:34
mgedmin	I don't have it installed, so dunno	20:34
mgedmin	and you've got 54 megs available, which is incredibly many	20:35
mgedmin	I've been living with 3.6 megs free for weeks	20:35
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* Micha_ pokes garage		20:36
* jebba900 in taxi. This thing rules.		20:36
Ceron	mgedmin: heh you probally installed	20:36
Ceron	alot for devels-extras	20:36
Ceron	from	20:36
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Ceron	non optified stuff	20:36
aspidites	extras-devel*	20:36
Ceron	eating your device :P	20:36
mgedmin	oh yes	20:37
jebba900	mgedmin, you have brick? U try my R&d mode recover?	20:37
Ceron	does the n900 got any temperature sensors?	20:37
mgedmin	in fact I had so many, that when I made a backup of the loaned n900, and tried to restore it on my new n900, the app installer ran out of space in the middle	20:37
Ceron	:)	20:37
mgedmin	wasted the whole morning	20:37
mgedmin	sadly, no	20:38
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Ceron	no temp sensors :l?	20:38
mgedmin	I want a temperature sensor and a magnetic compass in my n900!	20:38
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mgedmin	jebba900, no, I haven't bricked any n900s yet	20:38
lcuk	and ponies	20:38
Ceron	i want a real gyro compass	20:38
Ceron	with a 500kg ball spinning inside the n900	20:38
lcuk	anti-grav field	20:38
jebba900	ah good	20:38
Ceron	vill keep my n900 aligned properlly!	20:39
jebba900	a lighter	20:39
Ceron	powerball is a must for n900	20:39
mgedmin	btw accelerometer is not a good way to toggle portrait/landscape	20:39
mgedmin	conboy keeps rotating when I don't want it to	20:39
mgedmin	and the rotation animation is TOO DAMN SLOW	20:39
RST38h	anyone knows if the Enigma game is optified?	20:39
RST38h	mgedminL admit it, you just want a tricorder	20:40
Ceron	lol	20:40
mgedmin	RST38h, I've never seen the original Star Trek series	20:40
mgedmin	sadly	20:40
RST38h	mgedmin: torrent, no?	20:40
RST38h	mgedmin: although I would start with DrWho, really	20:40
mgedmin	apt-get install some-free-time	20:40
Ceron	RST38h wants spock to beam him into the n900	20:40
mgedmin	package not found	20:40
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Ceron	mgedmin: you got freetime right now.	20:41
RST38h	mgedmin: StarTrek is a cryptosocialist US scifi	20:41
mgedmin	no, I'm busy wasting time on irc	20:41
mgedmin	watching TV would require more concentration	20:41
redeeman	lol cryptosocialist	20:41
RST38h	mgedmin: DrWho is an endless British Kindzadza =)	20:41
Ceron	watch all 7 seasons of TNG	20:41
Ceron	and all 14 movies	20:42
RST38h	Ceron: No.	20:42
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cpscotti	Hello fellas! can someone test accdisplay? its on extras-testing now. It's a graphical tool to view/record/playback accelerometer's data. I fixed all the issues pointed yesterday.. thanks	20:42
* mgedmin once watched too many seasons of Babylon 5, and then gave up in the beginning of the last one		20:42
Ceron	picard > kirk	20:42
b0unc3	hello	20:43
* mgedmin now imagines what playing back accelerometer's data ought to really mean		20:43
jebba900	cpscotti, sounds cool.	20:43
mgedmin	that'd be a neat trick	20:43
jebba900	test burgerspace too it rules heh	20:43
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mgedmin	have the n900 jump around according to written instructions	20:43
zash	mgedmin: hahaha	20:43
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flux	cpscotti, I tried it a few days ago, but it didn't seem to be able to actually save.. should work now?	20:43
flux	such measurements can be nice for prototyping stuff like distance measuring (if they can be done or not)	20:44
b0unc3	someone know which is the replacement of hildon_font_selection_dialog_new() ? (the api docs said it's deprecated now)	20:44
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Ceron	how can you meassure distance with accelometer :p	20:44
Stskeeps	simulating a pedometer	20:45
flux	ceron, in theory, you could just integrate the value	20:45
flux	well, pedometer would be something different	20:45
flux	ceron, well, actually you integrate the value to get a speed an integrate that to get a distance..	20:45
Ceron	pedo meter?	20:45
flux	but yeah, it might not be very workable :)	20:45
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Ceron	isee :P	20:46
Micha_	Not really - done on the S60 SportsTracker app	20:46
Ceron	n900 should just have an inbuilt laser distance meter dystem	20:46
Ceron	system	20:46
Ceron	thats used in construction work	20:47
flux	ceron, or maybe something really crazy, like satellite navigation system!	20:47
Ceron	thats not precise :0	20:47
lcuk	thats crazy talk, how would they get tape measures all the way upto space	20:47
LuciusMare	wait	20:47
Ceron	lol	20:47
LuciusMare	what is a pedometer?	20:47
lcuk	step counter	20:47
Ceron	stuff for pedos	20:47
Ceron	oh	20:48
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LuciusMare	Until now,i just thought its a meter that measures how many pedophiles are near	20:48
Stskeeps	that does exist on the iphone	20:48
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LuciusMare	then why it is "pedo" ?	20:48
cpscotti	flux: yes yes.. everything should work now...	20:48
Micha_	From foot	20:48
fnordianslip	like some kind of gaydar?	20:48
cpscotti	jebba900: thanks	20:48
Micha_	You're thinking of paedophile	20:48
LuciusMare	foot to pedo?	20:48
Hiisty	LuciusMare: pedo = pedestrian etc, maybe from latin?	20:48
AndrewFBlack	is garage down?	20:49
LuciusMare	hm	20:49
LuciusMare	maybe	20:49
fnordianslip	downish	20:49
LuciusMare	i didnt know the world pediastran either	20:49
Micha_	AndrewFBlack: No, just veeeeeeery slow	20:49
mgedmin	http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/garage.maemo.org	20:49
LuciusMare	er	20:49
* AndrewFBlack takes Garage Server out back with a gun like they did Old Yeller		20:49
LuciusMare	*the WORD pediastran	20:49
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mgedmin	love the url, dislike the advertisement	20:50
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Micha_	Laters.	20:50
cpscotti	flux: that's precisely the idea.. I made it so that i could judge whats plausible and what's not...	20:50
mgedmin	wasn't the garage server upgrade planned for early December?	20:51
* mgedmin checks the calendar		20:51
cehteh	dont check your calendart check nokias ....	20:51
cehteh	they doe everything 2-3 months later than announced	20:51
Lynoure	OIL: ERROR liboiltest.c 405: oil_test_check_impl(): function mas10_u8_mmx_2 in class mas10_u8_l15 failed check (6616 > 0) \|\| (outside=0)	20:52
lcuk	LuciusMare, Hiisty	20:52
lcuk	Etymology: French pédomètre, from Latin ped-, pes foot + French -mètre -meter	20:52
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Lynoure	No luck so far finding out what that's about. Any ideas? I'm trying to play a sound with phonon	20:52
Hiisty	lcuk: i was right!!!	20:52
Hiisty	1st time ever	20:52
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cehteh	Lynoure: that looks fishy (6616 > 0) \|\| (outside=0)	20:53
andre___	povbot, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1	20:54
povbot	andre___: Error: "https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1" is not a valid command.	20:54
cehteh	shoudlnt that be outside == 0	20:54
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Lynoure	cehteh: I would not know, this is first time I run into anything about liboil	20:54
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cehteh	Lynoure: i dont even know whats loboil is good for :)	20:55
Lynoure	cehteh: that makes two of us, then	20:55
Stskeeps	wazd_n800: o/	20:55
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cehteh	liboiltest.c 405: can you pastebin that line?	20:56
cehteh	(and the lines before in context)	20:56
mgedmin	andre___, if you want to see a bug title, just say bug #1	20:56
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it	20:56
jiajia	hei guys when i open the app manager there are only 6 catalog	20:56
jiajia	how could i get more for n900	20:56
mgedmin	jiajia, why?	20:56
jiajia	i don't know why	20:57
mgedmin	then you don't need more catalogues ;)	20:57
jiajia	i open it and it has 6 only	20:57
DocScrutinizer51	cehteh: (shouldn't that...) not if it's a script	20:57
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mgedmin	I believe it has only 3 out of the box	20:57
Lynoure	cehteh: http://pastebin.com/m10895a92	20:57
jiajia	my friend had lots of catalog as default	20:57
mgedmin	on a n900?	20:58
Lynoure	cehteh: the app tries to play a sound with phonon.	20:58
jiajia	yeas	20:58
jiajia	yeah the app manager	20:58
mgedmin	you are using some strange new meaning for the word "default"	20:58
jiajia	i have 6 only my friend has lots of it we are all using the new one	20:58
cehteh	Lynoure: the source line i meant file: liboiltest.c line 405	20:58
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Lynoure	cehteh: I don't know where to look for that	20:58
mgedmin	other than the two official nokia repositories, plus maemo extras, there's only tools plus the two experimental extras-devel/extras-testing that are worth any attention	20:59
Lynoure	cehteh: like I said, first time I hear about liboil.	20:59
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cehteh	yeah .. but i can only help you with your problem when you figure that out :P	20:59
Lynoure	cehteh: I think at that point I can also help myself with it...	20:59
mgedmin	liboil contains optimized assembly routines for doing stuff; "mmx" in the function name is interesting as I don't think it ought to apply to armel	21:00
mgedmin	is this in x86 scratchbox?	21:00
mgedmin	yes, I see it is	21:00
Lynoure	mgedmin: it is.	21:00
mgedmin	interesting	21:00
mgedmin	sadly, my knowledge about liboil ends here	21:00
mgedmin	32 or 64-bit OS?	21:00
cehteh	mgedmin: still an assertion with a test like (outside = 0) looks extremely fishy in C	21:00
timeless_mbp	what about libwater?	21:00
timeless_mbp	or libh2o?	21:00
Lynoure	mgedmin: the host the scratchbox is on 32bit Ubuntu 9.10	21:01
* mgedmin votes for libnih as the best library name, although librarian comes kinda close		21:01
cehteh	liberty :)	21:02
range	owfat for -lowfat :)	21:02
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mgedmin	are those real?	21:02
timeless_mbp	-liberty is real	21:02
timeless_mbp	sadly	21:02
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cehteh	my debuging lib uses defines like EBUG_ALPHA then you can use the -DEBUG_ALPHA compiler switch :)	21:03
jon1012	hi	21:03
timeless_mbp	cehteh: yuck	21:03
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Lynoure	mgedmin: I assume this is somehow related to phonon, as the same app before the phonon stuff did not give this	21:05
range	As is -lowfat (dietlibc)	21:06
* mgedmin kinda regrets wading into the conversation when he has no clue about phonon or liboil on scratchbox		21:06
mgedmin	and isn't really all that interested	21:06
loppear	woke up this morning with a dead n900 battery despite being plugged into the charger. after recharging today seems to be ok - I expect it is due to one of two extras-testing apps I installed last night. any resources for investigating battery usage, other than waiting?	21:07
pupnik	'	21:07
pupnik	top'	21:07
timeless_mbp	loppear: it's possible for some devices to have bad states	21:07
mgedmin	loppear, maybe bug 6004 ?	21:07
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable	21:07
Proteous	you didn't install the one called "INSTALL THIS NOW FOR FREE PICTURES OF TOM CRUSE!"	21:07
timeless_mbp	ah, mgedmin has a bug number	21:07
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crashanddie	who's tom cruse?	21:08
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mgedmin	although I've only seen it twice, and only with the data cable	21:08
mgedmin	never with a charger	21:08
Proteous	:P	21:08
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range	crashanddie: The guy in the free pictures.	21:08
Proteous	lol	21:08
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: i get it w/ the charger :)	21:08
timeless_mbp	but mine is beta hardware	21:09
mgedmin	timeless_mbp, does it indicate that it's charging (icon/blinking led)?	21:09
loppear	mgedmin: this was on the charger, and recharge fine as on data cable actually. will verify that the charger also still works later.	21:09
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: nope	21:09
crashanddie	range: this guy? http://user.media.sweat365.com/brad.sweat365.com/files/2007/12/real-six-pack-abs.jpg	21:09
loppear	but in all cases, charging was indicated.	21:09
mgedmin	so at least the UI isn't lying	21:09
timeless_mbp	not until it runs out of power and dies	21:09
timeless_mbp	then it starts charging	21:09
loppear	(ui & led)	21:09
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: actually, i shouldn't say that	21:09
mgedmin	hm	21:10
timeless_mbp	my hardware sometimes pretends it's charging when it isn't even plugged into anything :)	21:10
range	crashanddie: I didn't install the package :)	21:10
timeless_mbp	beta hardware is fun :)	21:10
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: please don't talk about your sex life	21:10
Lynoure	mgedmin: that's ok. Thanks for voicing your regret, that way I know not to uninterest you further :)	21:10
mgedmin	I like how my n900 is still charging several seconds after the charger is unplugged from the wall socket	21:10
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timeless_mbp	nice	21:10
timeless_mbp	actually	21:10
timeless_mbp	that might be legit	21:11
timeless_mbp	if the charger has a capacitor (?)	21:11
mgedmin	that's what I think	21:11
loppear	mgedmin: i get that was well (after unplugging) but assumed it was legit.	21:11
Roaziel	Hi, guys. i just got my N900 yesterday and I have this little problem that just sort of showed up earlier today... The calendar sort of just crashes as soon as it attempts to start up and I get a message that says something like "internet error".	21:11
mgedmin	although my understanding of electricity leaves a lot to be desired	21:11
timeless_mbp	given that chargers have to handle surges	21:11
timeless_mbp	because power in portions of the world is um ...	21:11
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timeless_mbp	(and yes, i've been to Ukraine, among other interesting parts of the world	21:11
mgedmin	Roaziel, clearly, it's a bug	21:11
mgedmin	have you tried searching in bugs.maemo.org?	21:12
timeless_mbp	heck, in Uman, they don't always have running water, let alone power)	21:12
* mgedmin installs crash-reporter		21:12
Roaziel	Well not at bugs.maemo.org but I did google the specific error message and got Nothing	21:12
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: fwiw, you're right	21:12
mgedmin	cool, bluetooth DUN support has been packaged as a deb!	21:12
Anupras	guys, how do i send facebook messages ?	21:12
pupnik	facebook.com?	21:13
mgedmin	Anupras, with a browser	21:13
Anupras	yeah, but when i connect to facebook	21:13
* mgedmin is often right and even more often wrong		21:13
Anupras	and press on my friends list	21:13
Anupras	it's loading and after while says no friends available	21:13
mgedmin	sometimes facebook's javascript starts ignoring keyboard/mouse events, and I get to reload the page	21:13
kleanchap	I am planning to buy a small netbook with touch screen capabilities. Can I install maemo as the base operating system on it and still be able to develop Java applications?	21:14
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mgedmin	kleanchap, not maemo itself, but maybe mer could be convinced to run	21:14
mgedmin	I wouldn't be too hopeful	21:14
kleanchap	what is mer?	21:15
Ceron	whee -10c outside	21:15
mgedmin	a completely open-source remix of maemo	21:15
Ceron	and -34 in lapland :\	21:15
mgedmin	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer	21:15
Corsac	hhm, 42-11 is still the latests available version?	21:15
RST38h	yes	21:15
mgedmin	maemo has lots of closed-source parts	21:15
Ceron	will my n900 be capable of -33c?	21:15
Ceron	in the winter	21:15
Ceron	working normally :P	21:15
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kleanchap	mgedmin, what platform can I install maemo to develop applications?	21:15
_berto_	<mgedmin> cool, bluetooth DUN support has been packaged as a deb!	21:15
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_berto_	\o/	21:15
kleanchap	mgedmin, I have Fedora and Slackware.	21:16
Corsac	hmhm, and no flasher for amd64?	21:17
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loppear	Ceron: doing fine in my backpack at -10-15c here.. so far.	21:18
Ceron	ok, tell me when it fails :p	21:19
mgedmin	kleanchap, to develop maemo apps you need any linux distro (debian is often recommended)	21:19
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mgedmin	anybody brave enough to have tried 0xFFFF to flash a n900?	21:20
kleanchap	mgedmin, thnx	21:20
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mgedmin	it probably doesn't work	21:20
Roaziel	Ok, I checked bugs.maemo.org and I didnt find anything that even mentions my problem. Kinda gives me the feeling Im the only one in the workd whose having this problem :S	21:20
mgedmin	the website wasn't updated since 2008	21:21
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mgedmin	Roaziel, congratulations!	21:21
mgedmin	:)	21:21
RST38h	Ceron: Battery may fail at this low t	21:21
mgedmin	did you manage to add any events to your calendar, or is this a completely fresh device?	21:21
Ceron	RST38h: really :P	21:21
RST38h	qwerty12: Around?	21:21
Roaziel	Well it was brand new yesterday	21:22
Roaziel	But the problem came up Today	21:22
RST38h	Ceron: But if you start playing a movie in advance, or use a bittorrent client, our N900 will be preheated =)	21:22
Roaziel	granted i didnt really do much at all with the calendar	21:22
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Macer	damnit	21:22
Macer	damn german audio channels.. i have to re-encode this crap to get rid of it	21:22
mgedmin	ah, 0xFFFF + N900 = work in progress, according to http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Flashing_N900_with_0xFFFF	21:23
Roaziel	is there a way to reset an application or reinstall it?	21:23
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jiajia	hei guys how to send mms by n900	21:23
jiajia	it seems i can't do it	21:23
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mgedmin	Roaziel, I'd recommend installing crash-reporter, then reproducing the crash	21:23
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wazd_n800	RST38h, have you received anything?	21:23
mgedmin	jiajia, the internet is full of complaints that N900 doesn't support MMS messages	21:23
Roaziel	lol, thatll be easy it crashed every time i try to start it up	21:23
jebba900	new n900 code recently addede to 0xFFFF	21:24
Roaziel	Where is this "crash-reporter"?	21:24
jiajia	mgedmin: will it be possible later on	21:24
jiajia	that is something important	21:24
jebba900	i think mms support doesnt come until ofono support, but not certain	21:24
mgedmin	hm... fremantle tools repo	21:24
RST38h	wazd: On GMail? No =(	21:24
mgedmin	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5	21:25
Roaziel	thanks	21:25
jiajia	mgedmin: to me	21:25
mgedmin	jiajia, but not to me, so I never investigated ...	21:25
jiajia	okey thanks , so it seems i can't send it	21:25
mgedmin	ISTR it's "work in progress", but I don't know if you can expect anything soon	21:25
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wazd_n800	RST38h, fcuk	21:30
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RST38h	wazd: try gmail mobile	21:31
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infobot	to sound weird or anything ...	21:32
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wazd_n800	RST38h, link?)	21:34
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crashanddie	infobot: sorry?	21:36
* infobot appologizes profusely to everyone, points at the spammers, and says: "IT WAS THEM, THEY MADE ME DO IT!!!"		21:36
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wazd_n800	omg	21:37
crashanddie	infobot: since when do you talk?	21:37
wazd_n800	Skynet is here	21:37
wazd_n800	ponies! run!	21:37
crashanddie	OMG PONIES	21:37
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Myrtti	PINK PONIES?	21:38
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wazd_n800	yeah! run!	21:38
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Roaziel	mgedmin, is the crash-report software safe? :P	21:39
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AndrewFBlack	wazd_n800, you want to take a shot that a top view of a wolf for that sheep herding game?	21:41
mgedmin	Roaziel, I dunno, what's your definition of "safe"?	21:43
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mgedmin	it's an official Nokia-created developer tool	21:44
mgedmin	they recommend installing it if you want to provide better bug reports on application crashes	21:44
mgedmin	if the application in question manages your bank accounts, your private info may make it into the crash dump, so it could be called unsafe in that regard	21:44
mgedmin	but Nokia promises not to use info from your crash dumps for evil purposes	21:45
granden	s there any good replacement for the mail-client on the N900? Something that supports IMAP IDLE and is a bit faster when opening big imap inboxes, would be great.	21:45
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johnsq	Hi	21:45
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* mgedmin used ssh + mutt for mail on N810, but is sufficiently happy with N900's builtin email client to use it every now and then		21:46
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granden	mgedmin: Thought of using a similar setup if I could not find any replacement for the mailclient.	21:46
granden	But would like something that alerts me of new incoming mails like the current client does	21:47
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mgedmin	I don't actually use Modest to write mail, btw, I just read it	21:47
wazd_n801	skynet kicked me	21:47
mgedmin	mutt is addictive	21:47
granden	yeah :)	21:48
mgedmin	or, rather, a hard habit to kick	21:48
granden	I primarily use it for reading mail as well.	21:48
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granden	But when opening a mail from the notice-box. (The yellow one(default theme)) does not mark my email as read on the server.	21:48
* Chae_Jae_Hyuk Listeniando khaleint 20091216 1105 - 559223 ! [quality:128kbits 44100Hz time:17:54]		21:49
granden	And pretty slow for me when opening my inbo.	21:49
granden	inbox*	21:49
anpr	guys, does anyone have time to explain me a lit about facebook on maemo?	21:50
granden	Not used it that much, but what about it?	21:51
anpr	i just want to understand which is the best way	21:52
moo-_-	anpr: to do facebooking?	21:52
anpr	to send messages with facebook to friends	21:52
anpr	because when i connect to facebook	21:53
moo-_-	I use touch.facebook.com through the web browser	21:53
moo-_-	touch = iphone interface	21:53
LuciusMare	oy,iphone	21:53
moo-_-	it is not perfect, but works vert well	21:53
anpr	and press on my friend list, it loads, but after a while shows that facebook can not connect to friends list	21:53
granden	I prefer the lite.facebook.com interface	21:53
timeless_mbp	anpr: there's probably an addon for the n900 that lets it integrate into the device	21:53
timeless_mbp	at least for sharing files or something	21:53
* timeless_mbp shrugs		21:54
granden	Works very well.	21:54
timeless_mbp	i got a chance to participate in a user study	21:54
timeless_mbp	but they said i had to be a member of at least 2 social networking sites	21:54
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timeless_mbp	i don't think i was a member of any of the 4 listed :(	21:54
GAN900	Where's Shopper for Fremantle.	21:54
GAN900	?	21:54
anpr	and is it possible to do something similar with facebook contacts like with skype ones ?	21:55
anpr	they are intergrated into contacts list	21:55
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timeless_mbp	anpr: if someone wrote a plugin for it, yes	21:56
timeless_mbp	but it looks like the facebook thing that's available is a desktop widget and a sharing thing	21:56
timeless_mbp	so i guess the facebook people didn't write a contacts thing :/	21:56
Stskeeps	GAN900: lost on a lower priority with lbt's work	21:57
anpr	ok, i see	21:58
anpr	another question	21:58
AndrewFBlack	why does extras not have a Themes Catagory for extras anymore	21:58
anpr	if, for example, i connected to my skype account, so n900 transfered all my contatcs	21:58
anpr	but if i want to connect to another skype contact	21:58
anpr	account*	21:59
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anpr	and i do not need those previous contacts ?	21:59
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granden	hermez or what its called could be used?	21:59
granden	for syncing contacts with facebook contacts?	22:00
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granden	hermes*	22:00
loppear	granden: hermes is nice, but just uses facebook/twitter to add information about names you already have in your contacts.	22:00
granden	Ah	22:00
granden	I see	22:00
granden	Havent tried it	22:00
granden	Just read about it a little bit yesterday.	22:00
Roaziel	I cant find my documents folder in X-Terminal	22:02
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granden	Anyone knows what the Mac OS folder is for?	22:02
Roaziel	Or to be more exact I can find it, but it says that the folder doesnt contain the file Im trying to access	22:02
Roaziel	Even though I know the file is there	22:03
anpr	guys did u see what i wrote about skype ?	22:03
anpr	i thing my connection beeped..	22:03
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sp3000	"...and i do not need those previous contacts ?"	22:05
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anpr	ok	22:05
anpr	so anyone any clues ?	22:06
sp3000	hermes does something with facebook contacts afaiui	22:06
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sp3000	also afaiui you want to be careful about deleting any contacts related to a service since it may delete them remotely as well	22:07
Anupras	and now it really beeped..	22:07
sp3000	I believe it warns but I think people have managed to do it anyway :)	22:07
Anupras	sp3000 yeah i know about deleting	22:07
Anupras	but if i want just to change skype account with different contacts	22:07
Anupras	is it possible ?	22:07
sp3000	not sure what you're looking for, but you can remove the configuration for the account you have and configure another?	22:08
* sp3000 isn't that intimate with contacts		22:08
Anupras	but when you go to settings	22:09
Anupras	oh	22:09
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Anupras	let's finish this topic, will try to figure it out	22:09
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Roaziel	Ok, I need help. Im trying to install Crash-Report as mgedmin suggested, but it said that it required libc-bin. So I downloaded libc-bin_2.10.2-2_armel.deb from Debian and im trying to install it in X-Terminal but all I get is "dpkg: 'ldconfig' not found pn PATH." and "dpkg: 1 expected program(s) not found on PATH."	22:13
mgedmin	Roaziel, don't do that!	22:14
Roaziel	:S	22:14
mgedmin	downloading random .deb files from random distributions and installing them is definitely NOT safe	22:14
mgedmin	if app manager couldn't install crash reporter, give up	22:14
mgedmin	although it'd be interesting to know why...	22:14
Roaziel	stops geez. thanks for the warning i could've fucked up a brand new and devilishly expensive device XD	22:15
mgedmin	nah, it's fixable (although could be a hassle)	22:15
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hrw	hi	22:16
mgedmin	I have crash-reporter installed -- and there's no sign of any package called libc-bin on my n900	22:16
mgedmin	so, what happened?	22:16
hrw	someone here likes Protracker modules?	22:16
Roaziel	ok... so I cant install Crash-report... is there no way to reinstall or reconfigure the calendar to default settings or something?... without actually starting it up? :P	22:16
cosmo	hrw: _o/	22:16
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konttori	tbf: it will be from ovi store	22:17
hrw	I need someone to just test binary on n900	22:17
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Roaziel	Heeeey. wait a minute....	22:17
cosmo	hrw: of what?	22:17
AbstractW	Anyone tried to get Mono up and running on their n900 yet? :P	22:17
RST38h	konttori: BTW, are there any news on the bug where "canont connect to to one of services" message annoyingly pops up every minute or so?	22:18
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mgedmin	AbstractW, surely when somebody does, Miguel will blog about it	22:18
Roaziel	Yesterday i tried installing an app called ScummVM and it had the same problem. it required libs. I googled it and saw that debian.org had all of them and I tried installing like 2 or 3 of them last night before I hopped in bed... then this morning this calendar thing happened... can it be related?	22:18
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mgedmin	RST38h, fwiw I discovered it was account-plugin-salut that was causing that repetition, because of a bug in avahi-daemon: salut tries to register with avah, which isn't started on boot because it has no upstart file	22:19
mgedmin	I uploaded a fixed avahi-daemon to extras-devel a few days ago	22:19
AbstractW	mgedmin: Does Mono even run on arm processors yet?	22:19
Jaffa	garage websites down?	22:19
konttori	RST38h: what's that bug? I've never heard of it, let alone experienced it	22:19
hrw	cosmo: my module player. but it require gstmodplug also installed and there is no package with it	22:19
hrw	AbstractW: it does fine	22:19
Jaffa	AbstractW: there was a Maemo 4 port	22:19
mgedmin	Roaziel, possible, but unlikely, IMHO	22:20
Roaziel	dang	22:20
mgedmin	AbstractW, miguel blogged a screenshot of it running on a N8x0 a while ago	22:20
konttori	But hey, then again, I'm using currently the firmware of the one after the one after the one you will receive next (well, a dev version of it, but still), so it might as well have been fixed early on ;)	22:20
jon1012	anyone in lyon, lisbon or paris here ?	22:20
mgedmin	Roaziel, 100% sure but tedious way: reflash, it'll restore everything to factory defaults (including remove your data and settings)	22:20
Roaziel	... yikes. Id rather avoid that...	22:21
konttori	ups, skip one of those ones ;)	22:21
mgedmin	Roaziel, a not-so-quick-and-sure way: report a bug on bugs.maemo.org, help developers figure it out, wait until they fix it	22:21
AbstractW	mgedmin: Well, with more processor on the N900, I'm sure we'll see it running on there too. :)	22:21
tbf	AbstractW: http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/armel/mono-runtime/download	22:21
tbf	AbstractW: should be a no brainer	22:21
AbstractW	I really look forward to that.	22:21
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_berto_	jon1012: lyon, lisbon or paris? i'm curious about what you're looking for :)	22:21
Roaziel	lol... and how long could that take? :P	22:21
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mgedmin	Roaziel, regarding the loss of data & settings, there's the builtin backup/restore app	22:22
* hrw -> sleep		22:22
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jon1012	_berto_: I'm making a n900 client app for my network of collaborative city guides :)	22:22
jon1012	_berto_: and right now, there are only websites in paris, lyon and lisboa :)	22:23
Roaziel	how hard is it reflash it?.... I'm a complete n00b at this :P	22:23
mgedmin	the bug fix? weeks/months, but developers might find a way to work around the faulty data and make your calendar app work again sooner	22:23
mgedmin	infobot, reflashing?	22:23
jon1012	Roaziel: a matter of two downloads, and one command :)	22:23
RST38h	konttori: bug #5321	22:23
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5321 Annoying "connection lost/established" banners	22:23
mgedmin	um, is there a trigger?	22:23
_berto_	jon1012: ah :) I'm not in any of those cities, sorry	22:23
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mgedmin	Roaziel, it's documented at http://wiki.maemo.org/Flashing	22:23
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konttori	I never have bad connection. We have no bad connection areas in Helsinki	22:24
Roaziel	wow, sounds almost too simple :P	22:24
mgedmin	it's not complicated	22:24
mgedmin	just tedious	22:24
RST38h	konttori: well... mm... you know	22:24
konttori	anyway, the bug comments that it's fixed in harmattan ;)	22:24
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RST38h	konttori: can it be somehow fixed in fremantle as well?	22:24
konttori	fixed in the update after the next that you will get ;)	22:25
RST38h	because it is annoying like hell	22:25
RST38h	ah thanks =)	22:25
tbf	konttori: ETA?	22:25
mgedmin	ooh, re bug #5321, I never realized it also plays a sound	22:25
wazd_n801	konttori, btw	22:25
mgedmin	I keep my n900 in silent mode always	22:25
konttori	so, next update (hopefully very soon), is a small one and only fixes HAM. But soonish after that you'll get the first proper update and that should have the fixe for 5321	22:26
wazd_n801	konttori, since yo 're here)	22:26
mgedmin	notification banner is ignorable, sound effects would be unbearable	22:26
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* RST38h moos triumfantly		22:26
konttori	disable system sounds - > solved	22:26
wazd_n801	konttori, TM stucks at 1% in Vista again)	22:26
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konttori	wazd_n801: do you have 64 bit windows?	22:27
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wazd_n801	konttori, yep	22:27
joppu	Any guestimate when autobuider stops being gay. eg. doesn't timeout every time?	22:27
konttori	hmm... could be that it requires more mem for the java vm.	22:27
RST38h	joppu: that is not gay, that is dead	22:28
konttori	wazd_n801: does it show any errors in the command prompt?	22:28
konttori	(you have opened it with the bat file, right?)	22:28
Klowner	I'm afraid to touch my N900 until I slap an invisible shield on it, it's just sitting on the table, taunting me	22:28
w00t	Klowner: it's good at cleaning up, so if that is your worry it's ok	22:29
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Myrtti	joppu: have some respect for gay people :-<	22:29
mgedmin	cleaning doesn't remove scratches ...	22:29
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* mgedmin agrees with Myrtti		22:29
Stskeeps	joppu: server upgrades :/	22:30
Myrtti	comparing them with autobuilder is not nice :-D	22:30
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Klowner	I doubt I'd scratch it, though I'd have to clean my dirty finger oil off it	22:30
ifreq	Klowner: do you have sharp fingers or what?	22:30
mgedmin	n900 loooooves fingerprints	22:30
* ifreq puts on tinfoil hat too		22:30
Klowner	well no	22:30
RST38h	Speaking of scratches, how does one remove tiny scratches on the touchscreen?	22:30
crashanddie	finger oil?	22:30
* mgedmin started wondering what tinfs were and how you pressed oil out of them		22:30
joppu	And whose bright idea was to remove the category user/themes from extras?	22:30
konttori	I have been using my n900 so freakin' lot that I can say for sure that it handles rough use.	22:31
konttori	It	22:31
konttori	s	22:31
Klowner	my invisible shield should arrive within a couple days	22:31
konttori		22:31
konttori	a	22:31
konttori		22:31
RST38h	joppu: was not there to begin with?	22:31
derf	joppu: The same person who thought it was a bright idea to remove user/tools?	22:31
joppu	RST38h: was in OS2008	22:31
ifreq	Klowner: so before invi shield no usage? :P	22:31
RST38h	konttori: I have got long vertical scratches where I usually touch it with my fingers to scroll	22:31
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konttori	It's also my babys toy which she is slamming against random objects and dropping to floor from heights all the thime	22:31
RST38h	joppu: OS2008 allowed any category you could think of	22:31
konttori	RST38h: use a cleaning cloth every once in a while?	22:31
Stskeeps	RST38h: did you clean with the cloth?	22:32
RST38h	konttori: cannot "clean" them, they are scratches	22:32
Klowner	ifreq: well, I've been using it, but very carefully and only using the stylus :)	22:32
RST38h	Sts: yes	22:32
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konttori	RST38h: you use fingernails? Or pen?	22:32
wazd_n801	konttori, can't test it right now, but I've been running it with an old bat and it didn't work	22:32
RST38h	konttori: fingernails	22:32
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* joppu apologizes to Stskeeps		22:32
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mtnbkr_	Klowner: heh it took me almost 4 days before I knew my N900 even HAD a stylus! lol	22:32
Stskeeps	joppu: .. because of what?	22:32
konttori	RST38h: hmm... perhaps they are made of diamond-like substance?	22:33
Klowner	mtnbkr_: heheh	22:33
mgedmin	:)	22:33
RST38h	konttori: regular, afaik, at least they do not withstand clippers	22:33
joppu	nothing	22:33
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joppu	I was apologizin for Myrtti :(	22:33
RST38h	konttori: to be completley fair, whatever that transparent stuff is, it makes its best to hide scratches	22:33
RST38h	konttori: only visible in direct luminiscent lighting	22:34
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pekuja	where could I find information on adding a new share destination for the photo application?	22:37
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pekuja	I would like to be able to publish photos directly to my own website.	22:38
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timeless_mbp	pekuja: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ ?	22:39
SpeedEvil	pekuja++	22:39
timeless_mbp	http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libsharing-plugin/	22:40
timeless_mbp	pekuja: please add 'share via scp'	22:40
pekuja	timeless_mbp: thanks	22:40
pekuja	timeless_mbp: hmm, scp would be nice	22:40
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* timeless_mbp really really wants share via scp		22:40
ShadowJK	bah, I just changed to a new durasec cleartec. The instructions recommended using a CC for applying it. It left about as many scratches as I had before :-)	22:40
ShadowJK	just in other places	22:40
pekuja	timeless_mbp: would probably pretty much solve my use case too, unless I want more metadata than I can store inside the picture itself	22:41
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timeless_mbp	pekuja: =)	22:41
pekuja	timeless_mbp: I'll let you know if I end up doing that. ;-)	22:41
timeless_mbp	pekuja: i'll gladly help test if you do it :)	22:41
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ShadowJK	share via scp would be awesome	22:41
timeless_mbp	although, i demand that you provide sources, i'm not giving you my credentials	22:41
pekuja	strange that nobody's done it so far	22:41
timeless_mbp	ETOOBUSY	22:41
pekuja	I suppose so	22:41
pekuja	yeah I'm fine with providing source	22:42
pekuja	would SFTP do instead of scp, by the way?	22:42
ShadowJK	RST38h, replacement touch window is only 55E (plus installation) :-)	22:42
pekuja	I think SFTP works in more places than scp, or was that the other way around?	22:42
ShadowJK	I think it's other way around	22:43
pekuja	hmm	22:43
ifreq	scp works in more places than sftp	22:43
RST38h	ShadowJK: Won't arrive here in the next 3-4 months most likely	22:43
RST38h	ShadowJK: But it is still good to know of course	22:43
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ShadowJK	system("scp user@server /tmp/image.jpg public_html/images/"); ;D	22:46
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jebba	ShadowJK: a friend of mine has and recommends highly one of these: http://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/nokia-n900-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php	22:52
ShadowJK	I heard they had very high surface friction	22:52
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Klowner	ShadowJK: I'm getting one, I'll let ya know what I think in a couple days	22:53
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Klowner	I've heard wildly differing opinions regarding surface friction	22:53
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ShadowJK	the only good thing about durasec cleartec is that they're cheap, you get 5 of them	22:54
ShadowJK	but scrolling around in the browser and similar scratches them	22:54
Klowner	invisible shield things claim to be self healing	22:55
Klowner	though that's also why they're a little rubbery	22:55
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Klowner	I figure once I make a few calls and get it saturated with face oil it'll be plenty slippery	22:56
* mgedmin would like to have a full-body sleeve for the n900		22:58
mgedmin	oh, and ssh-askpass for maemo	22:58
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el_zilcho	Is anyone else having an issue of media player not recognizing artist/title/album tracks for at least half of your music collection? wondering if maybe its only supporting id3 and not id3v2 or something to that extent	23:06
jebba	promoted, but not in extras-testing yet (not sure how long that takes, i just did it a minute ago). But this is a good game i ported over that's in extras-devel right now :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/burgerspace/1.8.3-10/	23:06
el_zilcho	found minimal posts about the issue	23:06
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el_zilcho	the tracks are there and playable... they just all come up as (unknown album) (unknown artist)	23:10
el_zilcho	ogg support installed	23:10
el_zilcho	and they are flac files	23:10
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FiSHBoY	yeah, flac file tag info doesn't work in the media player, because flac files generally do not use id3, I think I saw that they generally use the ogg tag system, or some such thing, and the media library doesn't support those	23:12
el_zilcho	hmm	23:12
el_zilcho	i'll try hitting it with ex falso then	23:12
el_zilcho	because some do actually work	23:13
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FiSHBoY	some may have id3 tags	23:13
el_zilcho	yeah	23:13
MuJ	http://flac.sourceforge.net/faq.html#general__no_cuesheet_tags	23:13
el_zilcho	oh, maybe i have .cue/log stuff in those particular albums	23:14
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Corsac	el_zilcho: btw is the media player able to get album covers by itself?	23:15
el_zilcho	well, these are all showing no cover, so the thought is no	23:15
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el_zilcho	i dunno which way it turned out, but i thought someone said that it reads embedded cover data and not jpegs in the folder	23:16
FiSHBoY	yeah, it does read embedded album art	23:17
FiSHBoY	I have some mp3s from Amazon, and they embed cover art, and those show up	23:17
el_zilcho	which is also not going to happen for me	23:17
el_zilcho	if i embed cover art, i can't continue seeding	23:17
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jon1012	is there a way to see all new apps for maemo ?	23:28
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Anupras	jon1012	23:29
el_zilcho	update your repos and view all?	23:29
Anupras	it's possibleto seepublished apps	23:29
Anupras	if in n900 case	23:29
el_zilcho	it will show everything though	23:29
el_zilcho	hmm	23:29
Anupras	application manager shows	23:29
jon1012	Anupras: where ?	23:30
Anupras	open menu in n900	23:30
Anupras	press more	23:30
Anupras	and application manager	23:30
Anupras	and there download	23:30
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Anupras	and you can select one of directories or just press all	23:31
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jon1012	Anupras: I know... but how to see only last ones ?	23:31
jon1012	I mean newer ones ?	23:31
jaem	jon1012, there was some discussion months ago about adding a "new apps" feed from maemo.org Downloads to the App Manager, but I guess it didn't make it	23:31
Anupras	hmm	23:31
Anupras	then it's better to check it on website	23:31
Anupras	maemo.org	23:31
jon1012	jaem: oh ok... that would be a cool feature though	23:31
jaem	jon1012, agreed, but it probably wasn't a priority	23:31
el_zilcho	i guess you could really just browse here where the apps are listed by what's new right?	23:32
jaem	I like Linux package management, but most implementations could be presented in a more discoverable/pretty way	23:32
el_zilcho	http://maemo.org/downloads/updated/Maemo5/25	23:32
el_zilcho	there are install links on them all	23:32
jaem	jon1012, for example, what Ubuntu is doing here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter	23:32
GAN900	Patches welcome!	23:33
jaem	something like that on a smaller scale would be good for Maemo, methinks	23:33
el_zilcho	sorted by the last update	23:33
jaem	GAN900, forgot HAM was FOSS	23:33
jaem	heh	23:33
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jon1012	jebba: burger takes space on root partition ?	23:34
jebba	jon1012: no, is optified	23:34
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jon1012	jebba: strange...	23:35
jon1012	jebba: ok	23:35
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jebba	strange?	23:36
jebba	it puts the files in /opt. That is how packages are supposed to be installed on N900	23:37
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jon1012	yeah I know	23:37
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jon1012	but I got less space on the drive after installing it, that's why I said strange	23:38
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jon1012	I guess it's the apt cache or somthing then	23:38
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FiSHBoY	ow, netsplit to the face	23:38
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jebba	ah ya, apt cache will do it.	23:39
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jebba	and it will add to the icon-cache, but nothing i can do abotu that	23:39
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jebba	you can `dpkg -L burgerspace` to see what files were installed. jon1012	23:40
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jon1012	(btw, is there a build of xulrunner for /opt ?)	23:43
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Milo-	hey has anyone figured out how to flash the camera light? (or how to turn it on and off?)	23:50
Milo-	jebba maybe?	23:50
ShadowJK	wasn't there an app for it	23:51
lcuk	yes	23:52
AbstractW	mmm pocket strobe.	23:52
lcuk	theres a few apps which use it	23:52
lcuk	but they still lack the ui to do it cleanly	23:52
Milo-	trying to find a flashlight app	23:52
Milo-	there is torch application	23:52
Milo-	but that just uses the screen	23:52
Milo-	which isn't that bright compared to the led	23:53
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jebba	Milo-: dunno, but would be interesting	23:53
Milo-	I kind of wanted to cause deaths and strokes with my phone :(	23:54
ShadowJK	you could probably not run it for any lengths of time at the same brightness as flash anyway	23:54
jebba	Milo-: if you can get control of this, you win: V4L2_CID_INDICATOR_INTENSITY	23:54
jebba	i think	23:54
jebba	"theoretically" can be controlled via v4l2 (video4linux2)	23:55
AbstractW	Anyone recompiled the kernel for their N900 yet? :P	23:55
jebba	so a program that can send arbitrary v4l2 could do it, or perhaps dbus	23:55
jon1012	jebba: how to go up the stairs in burger ? :)	23:55
jebba	AbstractW: yes	23:55
Milo-	weirdly, googling that results in a user:Jebba -page :P	23:55
jebba	AbstractW: http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/MALF/dsc_0325.jpg	23:55
AbstractW	very cool.	23:56
jebba	AbstractW: see: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Installing_my_custom_kernel	23:56
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Milo-	jebba nice :D	23:56
Milo-	but your kernel is slow	23:56
Milo-	my laptop does it in 1.1 seconds!	23:56
Milo-	and weirdly, this phone seems to have more juice than my laptop :P	23:56
jebba	(think i missed the joke, but it seems to run the same speed as regular kernel)	23:57
eitreach	try installing Synaptic on it - god it's slow. :p	23:57
AbstractW	jebba: You should list what you needed to actually fully compile your kernel :)	23:57
Milo-	jebba you haven't ever actually built a linux kernel before?	23:57
jebba	Milo-: huh?	23:58
jebba	AbstractW: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Compile_custom_kernel	23:58
Milo-	not a maemo kernel	23:58
AbstractW	Ah, I missed it. Just didn't scroll down far enough.	23:59
jebba	though i'm actually building it a bit different now, that way works.	23:59
jebba	Milo-: i've compiled hundreds of kernels.	23:59
AbstractW	does make menu-config work?	23:59
Milo-	ah okay then I don't see how you missed the joke	23:59
Milo-	make menuconfig, you mean?	23:59
AbstractW	yeah.	23:59

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