IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-12-10

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AbstractW	DocScrutinizer: "Hmm. This file is unavailable."	00:01
lardman	~lart Windows for randomly deciding to reboot without permission	00:01
* infobot frags Windows with his BFG9000 for randomly deciding to reboot without permission		00:01
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mikhas	since I didnt find those demos instantly: http://qtlabs.openbossa.org/mobile-demos/current/maemo/	00:02
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Scummer	interesting	00:05
DocScrutinizer51	AbstractW, sheesh I don't find how to share to world on ovi :-/	00:05
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DocScrutinizer51	pupnik_, your hehe seems to indicate you were able to access the fullsize jpg ?	00:08
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Scummer	aha.. 10 euros for a sim card at tschibo with 10euros included until 28.12 ... now I wonder, can I purchase that SIM card at a bakery with a few Bretzels together ? :)	00:13
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, yes, but you can accidentally choose the wrong device, there's also a autoconnect feature, disabled in this version	00:14
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VDVsx	crashanddie, you can, when nokia fix the x server	00:14
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, it takes forever to connect anyway.	00:14
GeneralAntilles	You can just hit cancel if you pick the wrong one.	00:14
fragment	ported my old GP2X demo for the N900:) http://download.hedelmae.fi/daydream/daydream_1.0.0-1_armel.deb	00:15
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, true, actually that's a artifact from the previous UI	00:15
pupnik_	DocScrutinizer51: i saw thumbnail of worn spacebar	00:16
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, my other suggestion is to use less photo-real icons for the function selections.	00:16
andre__	Scummer: most probably in a Tchibo shop that you will find at every bigger station	00:16
pupnik_	fragment: nice to meet u	00:16
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, why ? :P	00:16
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, feels like they kind of overpower things.	00:16
GeneralAntilles	and simplifying them would make them easier to spot quickly.	00:17
VDVsx	:D	00:17
pupnik_	fragment: how are you drawing to screen? sdl?	00:17
fragment	pupnik_: yeah, SDL	00:17
fragment	pupnik_: I use it to open the window and get access to the pixel buffer. everything else is non-sdl	00:17
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javispedro	ah, Bada shaping up	00:18
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javispedro	fragment: uh? you still call SDL_UpdateRects or SDL_Flip?	00:18
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fragment	javispedro: sure	00:19
javispedro	ah, well, that's normal usage :)	00:19
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, do we know what it is yet? :P	00:19
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javispedro	seen engadget? http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/08/samsung-teases-bada-at-event-questions-still-outnumber-answers/	00:19
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, ah.	00:20
javispedro	and they mention "resistive multitouch"	00:20
javispedro	so take care.	00:20
* javispedro thinks the screenshot is fugly and wm-like		00:21
pupnik_	N900 so good for chatting/surfing, it replaced my pc for that	00:21
pupnik_	to a degree	00:21
javispedro	the font reminds me of palmone's def font for the palmos	00:21
javispedro	I think it's actually the same, lol	00:22
Xisdibik	pupnik_: mine didnt replace it, but its certainly not a hassle for me to use the n900 to chat, like my last phone was	00:22
Scummer	pupnik: the keyboard is a tad small for chatting.. a BT keyboard on the other hand..	00:22
Jaffa	Must resist maemo-user trolls	00:24
pupnik_	yep	00:24
Jaffa	but then, lbt can't either.	00:24
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, when did you resub?	00:24
lbt	noooh	00:24
lbt	bad lbt	00:24
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: I've never unsubscribed from -users; I just ignore most of it.	00:25
Jaffa	But "oooh, $510 is far too expensive for an unlocked N900" annoyed me when I saw an unlocked iPhone 3GS on sale in Helsinki airport for 999eur. Turns out, they're $900 too.	00:25
DocScrutinizer	AbstractW: pupnik_ : http://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.public	00:26
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	00:26
Scummer	999 euro???	00:26
Scummer	holy schnikes	00:26
javispedro	yeah :)	00:26
javispedro	but people don't see after operator plans	00:27
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Scummer	i do like the new t-mobile month to month plan	00:27
VDVsx	Scummer, most contracts raise the price to something like +$1500	00:27
javispedro	btw does anyone remember which nokia shop was selling the n900 carring case?	00:27
VDVsx	for the iPhone	00:27
Scummer	VDV: yep...	00:27
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pupnik_	fullsize works now DocScrutinizer51	00:28
Scummer	VDV: with contract 130$ for family plan and 100$ for month-to-month without phone.. so.. 2 year contract required +150$ for initial phone price = 600$ for a 400$ phone.. in that case mytouch3G	00:28
VDVsx	but the think is people in the US are used to contracts	00:28
DocScrutinizer	dman should, better	00:28
VDVsx	*thing is	00:28
DocScrutinizer	damn even	00:28
Scummer	VDV: was there even a choice ?	00:28
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, and we don't get discounts for bringing our own phone.	00:28
VDVsx	Scummer, true	00:28
Scummer	all the big companies had only 1/2 year contracts	00:29
Scummer	t-mobile just changed that a few month ago.. thankfully	00:29
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Scummer	but then.. alot of things don't make sense in the US	00:29
woglinde	In germany its very nice I only use prepaid	00:29
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andre__	lbt, ahaha! thanks for that maemo-users@ posting! :-D	00:29
woglinde	10 euros in half a year	00:29
Scummer	writing checks in the 21st century... man oh man	00:29
woglinde	but I am not this much cellphone user	00:30
Jaffa	VDVsx: UK too, TBH	00:30
range	I really wonder why Mark still "cares" for maemo devices ...	00:30
javispedro	ah, no nokia online store has the case, they all want me to go to a physical one or place a call	00:30
Sir_Lancelot	Anyone here herad about N900 loosing the mic?	00:30
Scummer	wog: in germany the cellphones were also unlocked	00:30
lbt	andre__: I toned it down so much....	00:30
Sir_Lancelot	*heard	00:30
woglinde	Scummer jupp	00:31
Scummer	wog: at least it used to be this way 15 years ago	00:31
Sir_Lancelot	Anyone here heard about N900 loosing the mic?	00:31
Scummer	lance: mine works fine	00:31
woglinde	scummer depends	00:31
VDVsx	Jaffa, oh no, you guys also like contracts ? :p	00:31
woglinde	but you get unlocked phones as well	00:31
Sir_Lancelot	seems like there's a couple of people who loose their mic	00:31
Sir_Lancelot	happened to me today as well	00:31
woglinde	contract phones mostly are simlocked	00:31
Sir_Lancelot	a friend of mine had to send his back	00:31
VDVsx	Jaffa, or don't have any choice..	00:31
Sir_Lancelot	because of it	00:31
Sir_Lancelot	:S	00:31
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: It's a bug with the FMRadio app (most likely)	00:31
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: Do you have FM Radio installed?	00:32
mikhas	oooh	00:32
Sir_Lancelot	yes	00:32
Scummer	wog : i don't think you could get a phone subbed with a contract 15 years ago..	00:32
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, Mark Haury!	00:32
GeneralAntilles	I'd forgotten about that fellow.	00:32
Scummer	at least i can't remember having a choice when i bought my Siemens S10	00:32
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: Reboot. Don't use it further.	00:32
woglinde	Scummer 15 years ago cellphones weren't cheap anyway	00:32
Scummer	well... 600$ ain't cheap either :)	00:33
Jaffa	VDVsx: Most people get devices through contracts, although there is an increasng number of "SIM only" deals, these are pitched as "keep your existing phone" rather than "buy this phone full price"	00:33
woglinde	Scummer right	00:33
Scummer	but being able to play mario world is worth it haha	00:33
Sir_Lancelot	so this is a known issue of this app?	00:33
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: Yes, there's a bug report in bugs.maemo.org	00:33
woglinde	Scummer you can bye a pandora soon	00:33
woglinde	args buy	00:33
Scummer	pandora ?	00:33
woglinde	jupp	00:33
woglinde	same hardware as n900	00:33
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6407	00:34
povbot	Bug 6407: microphone doesn't work during a call and after closing fm radio	00:34
Scummer	wog : never heard of it	00:34
VDVsx	Jaffa, normal here is pre-paid sim cards, but the phones are locked	00:34
woglinde	scummer -> http://www.open-pandora.org/	00:34
GeneralAntilles	Ah, I see he's clueless about when the N800/N810 dropped in price, too.	00:34
Scummer	ah..	00:34
Scummer	open pandora googled it	00:34
VDVsx	Jaffa, and you've got discounts like 100~200€ in the expensive devices	00:34
Sir_Lancelot	thanks Jaffa	00:34
Sir_Lancelot	;)	00:34
Sir_Lancelot	should a uninstall the app then?	00:34
Sir_Lancelot	or if I don't open it	00:34
Scummer	hmm... nice.. but nothing like a N900 :)	00:34
DocScrutinizer51	Jaffa, duh!? fmradio breaks mic?? o.O	00:34
lbt	Sir_Lancelot: I saw people debugging that (I assumed) last week	00:35
Sir_Lancelot	seems like it, Doc	00:35
woglinde	scummer they working hard to get it ready in the next months	00:35
Sir_Lancelot	I installed it yesterday	00:35
Scummer	can't make phone calls with pandora	00:35
DocScrutinizer51	Jaffa, or is it a sw-misconfig	00:35
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woglinde	scummer right	00:35
lbt	and I don't think it's 'break'	00:35
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: Don't use it, it's not a problem	00:35
andre__	Sir_Lancelot, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35075 ?	00:35
javispedro	so, the Mic problem was caused by fmradio?	00:35
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer51: The FM Radio app plays with the mixer settings. The bug contains more info and background.	00:35
javispedro	now give me a break.	00:36
Jaffa	javispedro: According to qgil on #6407 it accounts for some of the issues.	00:36
Scummer	i really like the N900 for business as well... hook up the projector and run the office apps for a presentation	00:36
Sir_Lancelot	but is the fmradio app that damages fisically the mic, or is it only SW?	00:36
Jaffa	Not that I've read the tmo thread, as I'm still enjoying a tmo free time.	00:36
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: It's s/w. That's why a reboot will sort it.	00:36
Scummer	hook up a wiimote for paging back and forth	00:36
javispedro	I do not think _that_ many tmo users' first action with their n900 is to install fmradio and receive phone calls with fmradio active.	00:36
Scummer	can't get any better than that :)	00:36
GAN900	javispedro, it's also a hardware issue.	00:37
DocScrutinizer51	Jaffa, ok, so no hw-breakage. *ny reboot should "fix" it	00:37
woglinde	hm but thats not QS	00:37
ali1234	haha so that's why somebody couldn't hear me on phone one time	00:37
Scummer	hmm... i used the fmradio and had no issues with the mic yet	00:37
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woglinde	why nobody tested fm and phonecalls	00:37
woglinde	thats a common usecase	00:38
javispedro	Scummer: read the bugreport carefully if you want to know what causes it.	00:38
Sir_Lancelot	but is the fmradio app that damages fisically the mic, or is it only SW?	00:38
Scummer	ok	00:38
ali1234	Sir_Lancelot: it's software	00:38
Sir_Lancelot	sorry...just read the answer	00:38
DocScrutinizer51	woglinde, fm radio not officially supported at all	00:38
Sir_Lancelot	GAN900 just said that it's also HW issue.. :S	00:38
javispedro	Sir_Lancelot: no, he meant there's also a HW issue, but it's not related to fmradio	00:39
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javispedro	(the HW issue is the "defective mics one")	00:39
GAN900	No, the fm-radio does not damage the mic.	00:39
Sir_Lancelot	so, which HW issue is that then?	00:39
woglinde	DocScrutinizer sorry but ...	00:39
GAN900	What javispedro said.	00:39
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GAN900	Some units have shipped with broken mics. . . .	00:40
Sir_Lancelot	there's a know issue with defective mics?	00:40
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javispedro	there's nothing known, there's no plan, no design, no backup!	00:41
ali1234	fm-radio disables the mic in software because if it doesn't, it doesn't work right with the nokia headset	00:41
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ali1234	i hope they can come up with a working fix this time :P	00:41
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melmoth	are we suppose to reboot to get the mic back if the radio is a problem, or is it just a problem when using the radion ?	00:42
zgold	ali1234: anything on psx? :)	00:42
DocScrutinizer51	fm radio is a hack anyway aiui. routes audo via BT or sth	00:42
ali1234	zgold: did you see my psx4all video? that's the latest	00:42
Klowner	Sir_Lancelot: yep	00:42
Jaffa	melmoth: IF YOU REBOOT THE MIXER SETTINGS SHOULD BE RESTORED.	00:42
Klowner	now the nokia stores in Chicago and New York are closing?! Baaaaaah	00:43
zgold	ali1234: I didn't, can you linkit? Also, anything on publishing yhour work?	00:43
melmoth	Thanks jaffa, will do if people dont hear me next time i got a call :)	00:43
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zgold	found it	00:43
DocScrutinizer51	melmoth, just stop using fmradio	00:43
ali1234	i won't get time to properly release this until after xmas	00:44
zgold	ali1234: looks like you got past the crash	00:44
ali1234	yeah, using real bios	00:44
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ali1234	but that gives 10% slow down too	00:44
zgold	ali1234: sweet :)	00:44
zgold	hmm	00:44
zgold	the video is taken w/op hildon running?	00:44
Sir_Lancelot	it mentions that is fixed....odd...seems like it's not fixed yet...at least on my phone :D	00:44
ali1234	zgold: video is taken with no extra hacks	00:44
ali1234	zgold so it's worst case	00:45
zgold	ali1234: not bad then	00:45
zgold	ali1234: i wonder if it runs @ full speed with other games	00:45
ali1234	with audio disabled and no hildon i get 50 fps	00:45
ali1234	oh and without stretching too	00:45
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ali1234	this code base is 1.5 years old too	00:46
nezb	hello	00:46
* timeless_mbp sighs		00:46
zgold	ali1234: arn't there newer versions?	00:46
timeless_mbp	javispedro: ping	00:46
javispedro	timeless: hi	00:46
ali1234	zgold: yeah, but looks like zod did not release the source publicly yet	00:46
Sir_Lancelot	brb...have to make a reboot	00:46
ali1234	zgold: when i get chance i'll contact him	00:46
Sir_Lancelot	:)	00:46
Sir_Lancelot	don't say anything importrant in the meantiem...ehehehehe	00:47
Sir_Lancelot	:D	00:47
Klowner	Sir_Lancelot: if you mic worked before, it should work after a reboot. Some people (like me) ended up with hardware borked mics	00:47
zgold	ali1234: i really wonder what we can do to make it run as smooth as iphone 3gs	00:47
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Sir_Lancelot	I'm gonna unistall it, just in case...	00:47
Sir_Lancelot	don't wat to ruin the mic because of this app	00:47
Klowner	and were then subsequently raped by NokiaUSA	00:47
ali1234	zgold: get rid of hildon and pulseaudio	00:47
zgold	ali1234: and compositing	00:48
ali1234	then it will run like iphone already	00:48
GeneralAntilles	Sir_Lancelot, as stated before, the fm-radio is a SOFTWARE-ONLY issue. :)	00:48
ali1234	zgold: no hildon = no compositing	00:48
nezb	my N900 runs faster than my iphone 3g	00:48
ali1234	also remember iphone has lower rez	00:48
zgold	ah, thats a good point	00:48
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ali1234	nezb: but does it run psx games faster? that's what we're discussing :)	00:48
nezb	oh	00:48
nezb	haven't tried	00:48
Sir_Lancelot	then, what happened that caused Klowner mic to broke?	00:48
ali1234	nezb: afaik i'm the only person who has :)	00:49
Sir_Lancelot	someone said a while ago that the phones were SHIPPED with broken mics	00:49
nezb	...who runs psx games on the iphone... with a touch screen?	00:49
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ali1234	nezb: search psx4all on youtube, loads of people do	00:49
Sir_Lancelot	and Klowner phone mic broke during usage	00:49
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pupnik_	Apt-worker-backend is quite slow. Suggest allow multiple uninstalls to avoid wasting the users time	00:49
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Klowner	Sir_Lancelot: that's probably just a mixer issue, mine didn't work when the phone arrived, after reboots, reflashing	00:50
zgold	ali1234: can you just tar up your psx dir and email me? I may work on it a bit next week	00:50
javispedro	setup a garage project already	00:50
Sir_Lancelot	ahhh...ok...not it makes sense Klowner	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Sir_Lancelot, he said nothing of the sort. :)	00:50
javispedro	I want to see the source and can't be bothered to get down to the gp2x forums again :)	00:51
Sir_Lancelot	:)	00:51
pekuja	speaking of emulators, apparently the first final OpenPandora is now running: http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=140%3Aits-real&catid=2%3Ablog&Itemid=2&lang=en	00:51
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pekuja	but then I think they already called an earlier prototype "final", so take that for what it's worth	00:51
nezb	ooh pandora!	00:51
GeneralAntilles	Sir_Lancelot, there are two possible failure modes here. Devices shipping with broken microphones from the factory, or devices using the fm-radio and having SOFTWARE-ONLY mixer issues. :)	00:51
pekuja	I think that one's an actual final device though	00:51
nezb	hehe I want one	00:51
nezb	but I already spent all my free money on the N900 :P	00:51
Sir_Lancelot	understood GeneralAntilles ;)	00:51
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Jaffa	pekuja: An actually final final device?	00:51
pekuja	Jaffa: yeah I think it's supposedly a real final final device	00:52
nezb	caption from video: "The very first video of the very first REAL Pandora. This day should go down in history."	00:52
Sir_Lancelot	I just know 2 cases in which the phoe arrived with working mic, and then it broke	00:52
Jaffa	nezb: This day should've gone down in history 2 years ago! ;-)	00:52
pekuja	Jaffa: they're not shipping yet, but that can't be far off now	00:52
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: Where a reboot didn't fix it?	00:52
nezb	sadly, yes ...	00:52
ali1234	zgold: actually it all compiles to one single binary, i could send you that. but it's tricky to use if you don't know the code	00:52
Sir_Lancelot	yes	00:52
Sir_Lancelot	reboot	00:52
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: And did they use FM Radio?	00:52
Phantasm	Uhm... For some reason irssi doesn't interpret return key properly from N900. Using terminal to ssh to my home computer and resume screen there. On the screen return works just fine on bash on other window, but on irssi return does nothing at all. ^J and ^M can be used to make return, but that is very clumsy. What does N900 use as return so I could bind it to work?	00:52
Sir_Lancelot	and restoring default settings didn't fix it	00:52
Jaffa	Phantasm: It's a screen issue.	00:52
Jaffa	Phantasm: Press Ctrl-M as a workaround	00:53
pekuja	I would like an OpenPandora too, but I probably won't get one for a while, since N900 should cover a lot of my needs already	00:53
ali1234	zgold: if you want the source, learn2git, then you can pull my changes direct	00:53
nezb	the N900 and Pandora has very similar hardware	00:53
zgold	I know git =P Wheres your repo?	00:53
pekuja	and I don't really want to carry around a whole bunch of different devices unless I'm getting significant advantages	00:53
nezb	like dual analog sticks	00:53
frals	lots of bugmail spam lately.. talk is spreading ;<	00:53
Sir_Lancelot	they say that they didn't have FM radio installed	00:53
pekuja	nezb: yes, but the focus is different	00:53
nezb	agreed	00:53
Phantasm	Jaffa: Ugh.. How do I get rid of the screen issue? And enter is working just fine on the same screen session in another window of it on bash.	00:53
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Sir_Lancelot	anyway...I don't give a sh*t	00:54
ali1234	zgold: give me 10 minutes to push it to my repo	00:54
pekuja	nezb: the main differences are: N900 has a phone, OpenPandora has gaming controls.	00:54
zgold	ali1234: sure	00:54
Jaffa	Phantasm: I dunno, I've had the same issue. There's an issue for it in bugs.maemo.org, I just know the workaround	00:54
Jaffa	Sir_Lancelot: Right, so uninstalling it is unlikely to make much difference ;-)	00:55
pekuja	I think I might get an OpenPandora eventually unless it flunks really badly. would be nice for playing games. of course, for just games a PSP or a DS might be better in some ways	00:55
pekuja	although obviously not quite the same thing	00:55
Sir_Lancelot	exaclty Jaffa ;)	00:55
javispedro	ali1234: ah, so you have a git server already?	00:55
Sir_Lancelot	one thing guys: is there a place where I can check all possible keyboard shortcuts?	00:56
Sir_Lancelot	:)	00:56
ali1234	javispedro: yeah, but at the moment it only has linwizard kernels on it	00:56
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ali1234	but i can soon chuck my psx4all branch on it	00:56
pekuja	psx4all might be really nice on a Pandora	00:56
pupnik_	fremantle mplayer hangs after a few minutes playing mp3	00:57
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pekuja	heh, looking at the Pandora OS demo video, I have to say it looks a lot like it was thrown together from existing desktop software components	00:58
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pekuja	I mean, it is, of course, and that's not a bad thing, but it definitely doesn't look like a friendly consumer device. :-P	00:59
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pillar	is there an easy way to find out what is taking all the space in my root? I have only 10mb left and cannot even install some qt library because of it..	00:59
GeneralAntilles	pekuja, that's because it is and it's not.	01:00
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pekuja	GeneralAntilles: yeah	01:00
ShadowJK	hm. I've hardly used n900 tonight but the battery use seems almost same as when I spent ahalf the night browsing tmo..	01:01
pekuja	GeneralAntilles: and not that it's a bad thing per se even	01:01
melmoth	pillar du -sh ?	01:02
Sir_Lancelot	n900 FTW :D	01:02
pekuja	melmoth: probably not going to help a lot if it's a specific program for example	01:02
pekuja	melmoth: since stuff is all over the place	01:02
Sir_Lancelot	one thing guys: is there a place where I can check all possible keyboard shortcuts?	01:02
solpete	I wonder wether there will be many non-emu games for n900	01:03
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melmoth	well, find large dir, dpkg -S files in it to see who s the culprit	01:03
pekuja	GeneralAntilles: I do prefer that approach to Apple's approach for example :-)	01:03
pillar	melmoth I guess if I go to every directory and check it, I was hoping some parameters to list all directories and how much they take	01:03
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pekuja	GeneralAntilles: but I'm probably in the minority. I just think it's ridiculous that iPods and iPhones can't do anything without being first plugged into iTunes	01:03
melmoth	well, you can do that with some shell magic, find and du together	01:04
GeneralAntilles	Pandora is a particularly ugly device.	01:04
melmoth	but usually du -sh * gives a good idea where to continue to dig in the tree	01:04
pekuja	GeneralAntilles: yeah, agreed	01:05
nezb	solpete: hopefully, since it has opengl es games can take advantage of it	01:05
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pekuja	GeneralAntilles: I'm sure it'll get better with time though. not that most of its users are going to care that much	01:05
solpete	Its such a pity that they cant add some sort of real gaming pad :)	01:06
nezb	playing supertux back on the N800 was rather hard even with its real d-pad :P	01:06
pillar	melmoth ok thanks	01:06
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solpete	nezb its not a real gaming pad :) and where´s a b c d buttons :P	01:08
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rashed2020	What's Maemo terminology for the calling options? (Cellular/SIP/Gtalk/etc)	01:08
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nezb	solpete: it still beats playing on a keyboard with mapped buttons :\	01:09
nezb	rashed2020: what do you mean	01:09
thomastp	when I add labels in a table, how do I make the labels left-align ?	01:10
kelvan	hey folks. just started to play around with my n900 a few days ago, but i have a big problem with umts	01:10
kelvan	there are only fields for apn, user, passwd but none for number (*99# in my case) and maemo cannot establish a connection, does anybody has an idea?	01:10
solpete	anyone knows a place with videos taken with a production unit? I mean more videos that whats been on tankgrl phonearena etc...	01:10
solpete	than even	01:10
nezb	I can shoot video if you want	01:10
DocScrutinizer51	kelvan, that's default. you don't need to set it	01:11
DocScrutinizer51	kelvan, if your connection fails then for other reason	01:11
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Phantasm	Jaffa: Ok, found the bug report of it. Hopefully it gets fixed sometime soon. Makes irccing from the N900 a pain in the ass.	01:12
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kelvan	DocScrutinizer51: so i have to find another reason :-/ anyway thx	01:13
nezb	irssi on the N900?	01:13
solpete	nezb: its like 22.8 fps or something right?	01:13
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Phantasm	nezb: You can install it on it as well.. But X terminal, ssh, screen -rU -> irssi. Return just doesn't work normally.	01:13
nezb	would you like me to check, solpete?	01:13
AakashPatel	On the phone app	01:13
solpete	nezb yes please	01:14
AakashPatel	Where it lets you pic how you want to make your call	01:14
AakashPatel	Can apps add thier own option in?	01:14
nezb	Phantasm, right now I am sshd to server that has irssi on it	01:14
Jaffa	Phantasm: What's the bug#, OOI?	01:14
Phantasm	Jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6045 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009	01:14
povbot	Bug 6045: ENTER key stops working in XTerm	01:14
povbot	Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications	01:14
solpete	How do I propose an App?	01:14
pwnguin	to who?	01:15
DocScrutinizer51	AakashPatel, that is missing in dialing a number from contacts :-(	01:15
solpete	to Developers	01:15
pwnguin	solpete: probably, the easiest way is to ask if anyone's already written it	01:15
AakashPatel	DocScrutinizer51: what do you mean	01:16
pwnguin	then someone either says, yes, or gives you a detailed analysis of how easy it'd be	01:16
pwnguin	(and then devolve into a flamewar over proper use of flash LEDs)	01:16
solpete	I have a killer APP in mind.. I should get paid :)	01:16
AakashPatel	Well then how about this	01:16
Jaffa	solpete: Historically, saying something like "I'm not a developer, but I think it'd be really easy for someone to develop this app which'd I'd really like..." is NOT the way to go	01:16
AakashPatel	Can an app "intercept" an outgoing phone call and get the phone number from it?	01:16
Jaffa	AakashPatel: See what gcobb's documented at https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?CSD%20programming%20information&id=1106&type=g	01:17
pwnguin	solpete: if your idea is worth a damn patent it.	01:17
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solpete	Ill tell you my APP I have in mind if you say "your cat just shitted on your carpet"	01:17
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pwnguin	anyways, ive got my own apps to write :P	01:18
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simula__	ideas are a dime a dozen	01:18
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solpete	hehe	01:19
AakashPatel	Jaffa: what does CSD stand for?	01:19
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DocScrutinizer51	carrier switched data?	01:19
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solpete	Cereals Strewed over Desktop	01:20
Phantasm	Jaffa: Any idea how to change bindings on X terminal?	01:20
Jaffa	Phantasm: nope	01:20
nezb	solpete: Nokia N900 show video with format MPEG-4 (video) AAC (audio) Resolution 848x480 Bitrate 3434kb/s Framerate 30.0000001024	01:21
nezb	*shot	01:21
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solpete	nezb cool... In all videos i´ve seen its been really choppy and some dude claimed it was like 22.5 fps measured by software	01:22
solpete	nezb perhaps you could shoot something and put it somewhere	01:22
nezb	solpete: this information is from VLC player	01:22
solpete	I´d like to see it	01:23
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nezb	solpete: I have recorded a 1 minute video to test this and it plays back very smooth	01:23
solpete	cool	01:23
nezb	both on N900 and on my computer	01:23
solpete	I dont believe you, but I believe you think its smooth :)	01:23
nezb	you don't believe me? :P	01:23
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nezb	I can put something on youtube if you want	01:24
Phantasm	Jaffa: Do you happen to be able to change priority and severity settings of bug reports? I really feel that low priority and severity minor are far from the real for that bug. 6009 mainly that is.	01:24
solpete	Nezb: 1.) Ive seen so many videos and all were choppy 2.) Nokia themselves state 25 fps	01:24
nezb	I am only giving you the information that VLC says when I right click the MP4 file	01:24
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nezb	but alas, if you truly need proof I will go shoot video	01:25
Phantasm	Jaffa: Effectively all normal people using ssh to connect to irssi will be totally unable to use irssi at all. As such it is very significant problem. And not only geeks do use irssi through SSH on phone. And the problem isn't related to screen. And as mentioned on the comments, some other programs (like vim and less) do not function properly due to the bug.	01:26
solpete	Any way since noone was funny enough to point out for me that my cat shitted on my carpet, Ill be nice and tell you about my APP I had in mind anyway. I was thinking about a phone APP - APP that automatically calculates your current bill based on parameters you specified. On the "break-date" it automatically resets itself to zero again. :)	01:26
solpete	nezb I think I truly need proof ... :P	01:26
pwnguin	Phantasm: esc is meta	01:26
nezb	solpete: Then I will go outside to shoot some video, be back in a bit	01:26
solpete	nice t.y.	01:27
Phantasm	pwnguin: I am well aware of that. How does that have anything to do with enter not working?	01:27
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pwnguin	Phantasm: i donno. that seems bad, i must have missed that part	01:27
nezb	solpete: also, just for the record, T-mobile's website can tell me bill information based on my usage	01:27
plr_	what bug makes ssh irssi unusable? I'm using it right now	01:28
Phantasm	plr_: The bug that makes enter not to work at all on irssi from N900.	01:28
solpete	nezb: yeah but perhaps an APP for that would be nice :)	01:28
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Phantasm	plr_: There is workround (^J and ^M) but not many know those.	01:28
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plr_	Phantasm: haven't faced that one	01:29
solpete	would it be possible to control the PS3 via blu-tooth?	01:29
pwnguin	Phantasm: it was working for me last night; anything special i need to duplicate?	01:29
Phantasm	plr_ & pwnguin: Xterminal, ssh to another comp, screen -r to existing irssi session.	01:29
pwnguin	i did	01:30
pwnguin	last night	01:30
pwnguin	worked fine	01:30
plr_	solpete: I'm hoping someone does the other way around - would be nice to control n900 wit six axis	01:30
Phantasm	Might it be related to keymap? I have scandinavian one.	01:30
plr_	Phantasm: that's what I am doing right now	01:30
solpete	I wonder, there are so few reviews out there of the n900 ... at least of release version	01:30
plr_	although I use -drU	01:30
solpete	plr but wiimote works aight?	01:31
plr_	solpete: yep, but I only own ps3 :/	01:31
Phantasm	I use -rU (-U because of screen bug not understanding the new shorter UTF-8 locale names).	01:31
solpete	but you could buy a wiimote	01:31
solpete	is playing nes through tv-out with wiimote laggy?	01:32
plr_	I guess yeah	01:32
plr_	don't know	01:32
* DocScrutinizer51 suggests a bug in host's screen or ssh ot irssi implementation		01:32
nezb	how do you tell which hardware revision you have?	01:32
solpete	would be cool anyway if it worked 100% ... I travel alot with work and stay at hotels .. would be nice to hook up to the hotel-tv... would be even cooler if multiplayer worked	01:33
nezb	also, what happens if you type reset on the terminal?	01:33
pwnguin	irssi+ssh works right now for me; en_us	01:33
nezb	solpete: I shot video, uploading it shortly	01:33
* plr_ is happy about getting qt app recognize portrait mode		01:33
solpete	nezb thats cool of you	01:33
pwnguin	not fond of the color scheme	01:33
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plr_	now what though, do I have to manage the turning of widgets myself.. wondering	01:34
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Phantasm	Might be that irssi version has something to do with it. I have 0.8.12 while you have either .13-rc1 or .13.	01:35
solpete	nezb as thanks, I suggest you hook up on Spotify and listen to "Chang Ju-Chun - Seasonal flowers" ... Dont thank me	01:35
solpete	What is Qt	01:35
pwnguin	Phantasm: i have a way to test this theory	01:35
BBNS	solpete: http://qt.nokia.com	01:36
pwnguin	actually, im surprised i have .13	01:36
solpete	BBNS ... ok its a " Cross-platform application and UI framework " ... but couldnt you just tell me the potential	01:37
mikhas	plr_, what you mean?	01:37
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Shapeshifter	yay my vikuiti screen protector arrived	01:38
mikhas	when in portrait mode widgets will be oriented correctly	01:38
Shapeshifter	and my spare battery is shipping	01:38
nezb	QT is a library that handles drawing of windows, and much more	01:38
Shapeshifter	yaay. All that's missing is the n900 -.-	01:38
plr_	mikhas: ok, then the setting of portrait is not working for some reason, even though the recognition is	01:39
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pwnguin_n900	still works	01:39
Phantasm	Hmmn.	01:39
plr_	good to know that it should rotate widgets on it,s own	01:39
pwnguin_n900	ubuntu hardy	01:39
solpete	how is the n900 keyboard?	01:40
pwnguin_n900	small	01:40
mikhas	plr_, http://pastebin.com/d62372e69	01:40
DocScrutinizer51	let me put it this way: QT is what KDE is built upon	01:40
mikhas	but that's for qt 4.6 for maemo =)	01:40
lardman	but nicer to type on than the N810 one imo	01:40
mikhas	for 4.5 you still have to rotate using the low level API via X atoms	01:41
nezb	solpete: the video is online, and also the keyboard is overrated.	01:41
pwnguin_n900	solpete: the top row is a bit close to the screen	01:41
mikhas	anyway, #qt-maemo	01:41
solpete	nezb allright	01:41
nezb	here is the link http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SEXYPPF2	01:41
pwnguin_n900	any way to change the xterm colors?	01:41
nezb	pwnguin_n900: yes	01:41
nezb	it is in the settings if you tap the top of the window	01:42
solpete	nezb ty	01:42
redeeman	plr_: you need the qt4-maemo qt for rotating feature	01:42
nezb	you're welcome	01:42
redeeman	plr_: then you can set it with setAttribute	01:42
solpete	nezb it says the file is temporarily unavvailible	01:42
pwnguin	nezb: oh, under font. how unintuitive	01:42
nezb	solpete: I just uploaded it, give it a little bit of time	01:42
nezb	pwnguin: yeah some of the settings are in weird places :\	01:43
solpete	all right... I guess megaupload is checking so its no porn	01:43
pwnguin_n900	muuuuuuch better	01:43
solpete	;)	01:43
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nezb	pwnguin are you pwnguin_n900?	01:43
pwnguin_n900	yes	01:43
nezb	solpete: yeah probably. the link is working for me now	01:44
solpete	Rumour has it N900 version 1.1 will have portrait	01:44
nezb	solpete: just like rumour had it iphone 3.0 would have landscape ;p	01:44
Phantasm	pwnguin_n900: Ok.. If I directly go to my irssi machine from N900, enter works. If I go to my home server from which there is connection (existing already on screen) to the irssi box, then it doesn't work. Also if I go to the irssi box, ssh to home server and use screen there it doesn't work.	01:44
pwnguin	Phantasm: i think you've lost me, and will continue to lose me without pictures	01:45
solpete	remote desktop ...cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz6GOd4q-1U	01:45
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solpete	yawn..	01:46
solpete	got the video now...	01:46
Sir_Lancelot	hey! what remote desktop app is this?!?!?!	01:46
Phantasm	pwnguin: Computer a and computer b... A has screen running and within it, there is ssh to b on which there is screen running that has irssi there. If I connect to a and screen -rU, enter won't work. If I connect to b and screen -rU, enter works. If I connect to b and ssh to a and screen -rU, enter won't work.	01:46
Sir_Lancelot	it's amazing when compared to VNC...	01:46
solpete	Sir_Lancelot oh waky waky ... hehe	01:46
nezb	rdesktop?	01:46
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Scummer	gahh stuck in traffic. damn snow. good thing i can waste time with my n900 hahaha	01:47
Phantasm	pwnguin: And b has Debian 5.0.2 and a has newest Ubuntu LTS release.	01:47
solpete	Scummer you scum. Dont irc and drive at the same time	01:47
nezb	lol	01:48
* DocScrutinizer51 suggests a bug in host's screen or ssh ot irssi implementation		01:48
Scummer	i'm not driving. i'm parked on the highway	01:48
Phantasm	pwnguin: So, if I at any point go to the ubunty machine, enter stops working on irssi..	01:48
pwnguin	Phantasm: but only for n900?	01:48
Scummer	i moved a mile in 30 minutes	01:49
solpete	What I really REALLY want, Is a gps navigation ApP for n900	01:49
pwnguin	solpete: uh...	01:49
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Sir_Lancelot	Sygic is releasing one soon, solpete	01:49
pwnguin	does ovi not count?	01:49
Phantasm	pwnguin: Yes.	01:49
DocScrutinizer51	ubuntu sucks no matter what	01:49
Phantasm	pwnguin: No problems with enter on any other device than with N900.	01:49
solpete	nezb thanks for the vid	01:50
nezb	solpete: I can not find Chang Ju-Chun - Seasonal flowers	01:50
pwnguin	Phantasm: it sounds like you need a DD, an ubuntu dev and a maemo dev in the same room	01:51
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pwnguin	otherwise this argument will go in circles	01:51
javispedro	so.. I have two phone numbers here. One of them calls my archenemy while the other one calls my friend. Which one is one?	01:51
solpete	nezb : wang Seasonal flowers ... sorry	01:51
BernardV	Same here for ubuntu 9.04 LTS with irssi	01:51
pwnguin	BernardV: same as who?	01:52
BernardV	01:01 < Phantasm> pwnguin: So, if I at any point go to the ubunty machine, enter stops working on irssi..	01:52
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solpete	Sir_Lancelot: but I dont want to pay 100 euro :)	01:52
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pwnguin	its you europeans	01:52
pwnguin	and your fancy unicode	01:52
BernardV	:P	01:52
Scummer	fork() this weather	01:53
nezb	solpete: can't find it on google :(	01:53
Sir_Lancelot	solpete , what remote desktop was the video???	01:53
pwnguin	Scummer: you now have two winter storms	01:53
solpete	nezb its on sporify	01:53
Phantasm	pwnguin: ;P	01:53
solpete	nezb search wang Seasonal flowers	01:53
pwnguin	i know i have problems with asian characters not showing	01:53
solpete	on spotify	01:53
solpete	pwnguin: Your device is broken	01:54
Scummer	pwnguin: one ain't bad enough	01:54
pwnguin	solpete: on ubuntu, not n900	01:54
pwnguin	or possibly on my hacked up NAS	01:54
solpete	pwnguin: I dont believe you... its your n900 you´re just a fanboy	01:54
nezb	solpete: I don't have spotify so I was looking on google	01:54
pwnguin	solpete: but arent i an ubuntu fanboy?	01:55
solpete	nezb: sorry its spotify exclusive :)	01:55
solpete	pwnguin ok... perhaps... then you should install scientific linux	01:55
jebba900	jaffa that dbus page is great thx	01:55
solpete	nezb if you dont have spotify its about time you get out of the closet	01:55
solpete	:)	01:55
nezb	I am in the US they don't have it here :(	01:56
solpete	WHAT	01:56
solpete	you dont have spotify in the US?	01:56
nezb	"http://www.spotify.com/en/why-not-available/"	01:56
nezb	Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions we are not yet available in your country.	01:56
solpete	HAHA...	01:56
solpete	sorry... but thats US in a nutshell	01:56
pwnguin	on the other hand	01:56
pwnguin	we have last.fm, itunes, pandora	01:56
pwnguin	and we dont pay a tv tax	01:57
solpete	I read about that girl shooting her friends birthday inside a cinema while some movie was running. She now risks 4 years in prison... THAT ... IS ... RIDICULUS	01:57
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nezb	nor do we have to pay a blank media tax (like Canada)	01:58
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solpete	pwnguin: TV tax is good. In sweden, the money is spent on TV channels (BBC-like) that are politically neutral	01:58
lardman	solpete: shooting her friends?	01:58
lardman	or filming them?	01:58
Scummer	solpete: don't you love monopolies	01:58
solpete	lardman filming them even	01:58
GeneralAntilles	solpete, TV is never politically neutral.	01:58
lardman	np, just wondering	01:58
BernardV	I'm in The Netherlands and also no spotify.. but you can register with a UK proxy (or other country) and later change the country back to where you really live.	01:58
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pwnguin	solpete: so bbc isn't polically neutral?	01:58
Sir_Lancelot	solpete , what remote desktop was the video???	01:59
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solpete	GeneralAntilles well at least you could be more or less politically neutral	01:59
solpete	Sir_Lancelot I have no IDEA ...	01:59
Sir_Lancelot	ahhh	01:59
Sir_Lancelot	ok	01:59
ali1234	pwnguin: the bbc isn't politically neutral, no, but it does have it's own agenda which doesn't necessarily align with government's	01:59
Sir_Lancelot	:)	01:59
DocScrutinizer51	lardman, for US I guess it's bee a .38	01:59
GeneralAntilles	solpete, that all depends on where you define your center.	01:59
DocScrutinizer51	or a .22 as it,s been a girl	02:00
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solpete	GeneralAntilles: Ok I should be so hard to judge, but what ive seen from CNN and FOX news ....	02:00
solpete	shouldnt even	02:00
GeneralAntilles	solpete, political neutrality isn't a reality.	02:01
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GeneralAntilles	solpete, it's a rationalization to make people feel warm and fuzzy. ;)	02:01
solpete	anyways... filming a friend during a cinema friend with your digicam and risc 4 years in prison... thats crazy	02:01
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GeneralAntilles	solpete, yes, copyright law has gotten out of hand.	02:01
solpete	GeneralAntilles of course :) Its analogue	02:01
pwnguin	how good of a job is sweedish tv doing informing the public if barack obama can win a nobel peace prize?	02:01
lardman	better to take the $63,001 fine	02:01
DocScrutinizer51	political neutrality is an antinom	02:02
GeneralAntilles	pwnguin, there was a story about two "Nobel prize winners" meeting to discuss climate change on the news at the airport the other day.	02:02
GeneralAntilles	pwnguin, it was Obama and Gore.	02:02
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* GeneralAntilles facepalm.		02:02
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solpete	pwnguin: dunno really .. last i heard today was that they were reporting why Obama doesnt want to meet the King	02:02
Scummer	solpete: i suggest raping someone and you might walk as a free man out of court	02:02
solpete	Scummer huh	02:03
solpete	:)	02:03
Scummer	it's definitely out of proportion	02:03
solpete	dont unnerstan u	02:04
solpete	:)	02:04
ali1234	hitler godwin this is why we can't have nice things change the subject :P	02:04
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Scummer	life ain't worth shit in the us court system	02:04
solpete	Scummer what do you mean, that you can rape someone and walk out a free man?	02:04
solpete	im sure you cannot, unless there is a lack of evidence	02:05
Scummer	solp: meaning, the punishment doesn't fit the crime	02:05
DocScrutinizer51	bah. US legislation sucks baseballs thru a waterhose	02:05
solpete	Scummer you think the punishment os too low?	02:06
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer51, still in favor of shooting them all out of cannons into the sun.	02:06
GeneralAntilles	solpete, the penalty awarded for copyright infringement is often higher than that for rape.	02:06
solpete	Scummer oh I get you ... walk out as a free man raping but risking 4 years for filming inside the cinema	02:07
solpete	yea	02:07
Scummer	solp: no, the punishment for the cinema tghimgy was way too high	02:07
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solpete	Also I read about some mother got fined $8000 per track someone had downloaded while "hijacking" their wireless router...	02:08
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solpete	I think she got personally bankrupt ....	02:08
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solpete	The judge claiming she was responsible for her internet connection	02:09
ali1234	that is not unreasonable	02:09
solpete	ali1234 your too americanized :) For me its crazy	02:09
lardman	come on LAPACK	02:09
solpete	tell her to fix her connection and rest the case	02:09
* VDVsx installed braek and now feels like a IPhone user :(		02:10
Scummer	someone crack the judges Wpa2 with the n900 and download some music. quick :)	02:10
DocScrutinizer51	that,s why you need to open up your wifi on purpose	02:10
ali1234	solpete: fixing the connection = taking responsibility	02:10
Jaffa	VDVsx: Is it in testing yet?	02:10
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lardman	bed time, LAPACK will have to wait 'till the morrow	02:11
lardman	night all	02:11
VDVsx	Jaffa, yes	02:11
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DocScrutinizer51	no legislation to prohibit it. And you can't be responsible for random driveby users	02:11
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solpete	ali1234 why should you be responsible for your internet connection?	02:11
Jaffa	VDVsx: Cool	02:11
VDVsx	Jaffa, not cool I had to restart my device :)	02:11
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ali1234	solpete: why should anybody take any responsibility for anything then?	02:12
Jaffa	VDVsx: Ah, yes. How does one stop it?	02:12
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GeneralAntilles	zerojay, ping?	02:12
VDVsx	Jaffa, dunno, there no way to do that atm afaik	02:12
Scummer	traffic is rollin again. i'm out	02:13
Jaffa	VDVsx: X Terminal > killall braek	02:13
Jaffa	VDVsx: Starting it again gives you another...	02:13
Jaffa	Right. Bed time.	02:13
VDVsx	Jaffa, yes, but lazy to do that :P	02:13
VDVsx	Jaffa, I had four running	02:13
VDVsx	Jaffa, gnite	02:14
Jaffa	VDVsx: I SSHed :)	02:14
Jaffa	g'nigt	02:14
javispedro	braek, funny, but needs a remove option	02:14
javispedro	er...	02:14
javispedro	I see you suggested that already :)	02:14
solpete	In sweden there are 9 million citizens. A recent study showed that 2 million downloaded "illegally" at least once during the last year. In numbers that was 75% of all people between 13 and 40... You cannot criminalize a whole generation of people; Something else with the "system" is wrong. Its time to realize that copyright, sharing , networking, social behaviour, possession of music videos radio television media - is something new now an	02:14
ali1234	that best not be copypasta	02:15
VDVsx	javispedro, its funny to do a prank with a friend's n900 ;)	02:15
ali1234	javispedro: want me to CC you on the psx4all repo mail?	02:15
* Jaffa will show it to a colleague tomorrow as "my N900's got a feature shared with the iPhone" ;)		02:15
javispedro	ali1234: yes please	02:15
* javispedro already envisions the app being pulled from extras because it damages "critical features of the device"		02:16
solpete	Imagine getting sewed because you bought and wore the same clothes as your neighbour; your neighbour should of course own the rights for his looks :)	02:16
VDVsx	Jaffa, you don't have the real dealbreaker yet	02:16
VDVsx	Jaffa, fart app :D	02:16
GeneralAntilles	If somebody ships a fart app I'm putting this thing through the disposal.	02:17
solpete	gotta sleep	02:17
DocScrutinizer51	I thought the only way to damage critical features was to massively overcharge the battery cell ;-P	02:17
solpete	nighty nighty	02:17
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ali1234	sent	02:18
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, I bet that will exist a couple of fart apps in the ovi store	02:24
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: That's almost makes me want to write one.	02:24
Jaffa	Just to get the damned thing out of the way.	02:24
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, hehe.	02:25
Jaffa	What do they do? Just a single button? Is it pressure sensitive? Should you shake the device to build up pressure?	02:25
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, the Ovi Store on Symbian is a uniquely depressing affair.	02:25
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, an exercise for you: pick your 5800,open OVi store and then search for "fart"	02:25
VDVsx	:D	02:25
GeneralAntilles	All of the flight tracking applications only work for airports in Singapore.	02:26
VDVsx	Jaffa, one of the most ratted: http://store.ovi.com/content/77A1756EAB12B3EFE040050A87320E87?clickSource=search	02:26
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VDVsx	"pico fart pro"	02:26
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Jaffa	Oh. My. God.	02:26
VDVsx	I installed pico fart lite, miss some features :D	02:26
VDVsx	but it«s free	02:26
GeneralAntilles	3 star ratings are the worst.	02:27
Proteous	don't need a special fart app for the n900, just use one of the many flash based ones on the web	02:27
VDVsx	Proteous, oh good idea	02:27
VDVsx	lol	02:27
* VDVsx searchs		02:28
Proteous	Flash:1 Ovi Store:0	02:28
Jaffa	http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/play/658/	02:28
GeneralAntilles	How far the Maemo Community has fallen. . . .	02:28
Proteous	lol	02:28
Jaffa	Wonder if it streams them? If embedded, it could be an offline package	02:28
* VDVsx packages a flash fart app for maemo		02:28
* GeneralAntilles wonders if his DDP N900 will ship before he returns home for Christmas.		02:29
Jaffa	That one's even finger friendly.	02:29
Proteous	DDP?	02:29
* Jaffa can't make up his mind on DDP.		02:29
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Jaffa	I'm thinking not. Loan & contract run out at similar times.	02:29
Proteous	nm	02:30
DocScrutinizer51	f*cking mail app flashed up the ettins for 0.5sec this moment	02:31
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xorAxAx	in which ways is the builtin calendar better than the gpe calendar?	02:31
Gadgetoid	DDP?	02:32
DocScrutinizer51	~lart pop mail for not knowing error codes like poll_mintime	02:32
* infobot shoots pop mail in the head for not knowing error codes like poll_mintime		02:32
Jaffa	xorAxAx: Integrated with contact's birthdays.	02:32
Jaffa	xorAxAx: alarmd integration.	02:32
Jaffa	xorAxAx: Probably about it. It's been a while since I used GPE	02:32
GeneralAntilles	Gadgetoid, Device Discount Program.	02:33
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I may decide to sell it to somebody.	02:33
Gadgetoid	oh right general, how much did you get roff?	02:33
Gadgetoid	off*	02:33
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GeneralAntilles	€250	02:33
xorAxAx	hmm, how can i sync the builtin calendar with evolution?	02:33
Gadgetoid	not bad	02:34
GeneralAntilles	Which is borderline ripoff compare to US street prices.	02:34
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GeneralAntilles	Especially without a warranty.	02:34
Proteous	heh	02:34
Gadgetoid	no warranty? bah	02:34
VDVsx	for those with 1 year loan the DDP is quite useless IMO, but we never know:)	02:34
Gadgetoid	i got £150 pff retail	02:34
Proteous	how come nokia can't make enough phones for everyone who wants one to be able to buy one at launch	02:34
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Proteous	hahsahd;lkjasdf;lkj	02:34
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Gadgetoid	first sim free phone i've ever bought	02:35
GeneralAntilles	Proteous, because management was stupid and underestimated demand by a ridiculous amount?	02:35
Jaffa	VDVsx: I may run for council in March just to have some kind of "we should have 'em" leg to stand on ;)	02:35
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: again	02:35
Proteous	GeneralAntilles: maybe by design in some sort of stupid "lets make this exculsive and make you feel lucky if you get one" kind of thing	02:35
mikhas	because demand > supply is the only way to keep prices high?	02:35
GeneralAntilles	Proteous, yeah, they're not that smart. ;)	02:36
mikhas	it's not really in the interest of the supplier to match/overshoot demand =)	02:36
Gadgetoid	500 quid is about the going rate for smartphones	02:36
Gadgetoid	unless its an iphone	02:36
Jaffa	mikhas: It is if you're trying to build a platform and meet demand.	02:36
Proteous	in reality it ends up being, "oh well, I can't get one for another 4 months and by that time something else better comes out that I buy instead"	02:36
VDVsx	Jaffa, didn't get your proposal :D	02:36
Gadgetoid	nokia are hardly keeping prices high	02:36
xorAxAx	Jaffa: what is the alarmd integration about?	02:37
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, lol, gonna do the Grover Cleveland thing? ;)	02:37
Jaffa	VDVsx: Long time to go yet -- I'm waiting to see if all the good work the current council does makes me feel bad. Or whether everyone'll end up just having hissy fits at Quim on -community.	02:37
GeneralAntilles	mikhas, there are orders of magnitude to contend with here. ;)	02:37
Jaffa	xorAxAx: Alarms will go off if device is completely off.	02:37
Gadgetoid	specially with some of us preorderers scoring between 30 to 45 percent off	02:37
xorAxAx	Jaffa: oh, thats cool	02:37
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: I needed to Google that - 22nd & 24th US president isn't something non-USians necessarily know about ;-)	02:38
mikhas	well, ok. let's say demand >> supply might be stupid then =p	02:38
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I had a whole weekend full of European references I didn't get, so I'm repaying the favor. ;)	02:38
VDVsx	Jaffa, eheh, seems that Quim doesn't like our proposals at all :P	02:38
Gadgetoid	european up my leg	02:39
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timeless_mbp	does GPE support MfE?	02:42
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Barcelona? You should've just gone around asking for Manuel to teach you English "from a book". And answering everything with "Que?"	02:42
zerojay	Que?	02:42
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: No. But it has other sync capabilities AFAIK	02:42
GeneralAntilles	zerojay, ping!	02:43
DocScrutinizer51	talking bout alarms - I'm really missing the maemo4 alarm setup	02:43
zerojay	Quoi?	02:43
Jaffa	zerojay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5035TY5RSpg	02:43
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GeneralAntilles	zerojay, pick a good weekend in the summer to have an event on.	02:43
DocScrutinizer51	maemo5 is so... retarded	02:43
GeneralAntilles	A "long weeekend" if you will.	02:43
timeless_mbp	Gadgetoid: last i checked the cost of an unsubsidized iPhone wasn't much cheaper..	02:43
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DocScrutinizer51	(alarms for that statement)	02:43
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zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Er... week 24. lol	02:44
zerojay	Whatever the fuck that would be.	02:44
Gadgetoid	timeless_mbp more like 400 more	02:44
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Jaffa	zerojay: Excellent, there's even a Candian joke in that clip	02:44
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zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Let me ruminate.	02:44
Gadgetoid	i miss the n810s endearing notification led	02:46
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* timeless_mbp ponders		02:48
timeless_mbp	does ovi store work w/ my n81?	02:48
timeless_mbp	i'm considering one of the free apps, it says you need to be a native speaker to appreciate it	02:48
* timeless_mbp crashes safari		02:48
timeless_mbp	(or maybe that's "ovi crashes safari")	02:48
DocScrutinizer51	Gadgetoid, what's the problem with N900 led? smaller apperture?	02:50
Gadgetoid	i love the big corner led on the n810... its nice and visible and has character	02:51
DocScrutinizer51	yep, ack for that	02:51
* Arkenoi really wants bigger keys. at least bigger shift, fn and ctrl keys, Crtl-Q, Fn-A, Fn-Sym and Shift-Z are tricky to press.		02:52
Gadgetoid	the one on the n900 just aint visible in a slip case	02:52
DocScrutinizer51	Gadgetoid, not even when screen down on table	02:53
DocScrutinizer51	Arkenoi, luckyily the prefix keys are stricky	02:54
DocScrutinizer51	except ctrl (sometomes?)	02:54
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DocScrutinizer51	darn. typos indicate a timeout due	02:56
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Xisdibik	<DocScrutinizer51> darn. typos indicate a timeout due	03:05
Xisdibik	<-- alsuren has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))	03:05
Xisdibik	howd you know	03:05
DocScrutinizer51	s/timeout/outtime ;-D can't disclose about my crystal ball	03:08
nezb	goodbye	03:08
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Xisdibik	heh, i know alot about them	03:11
Xisdibik	when i was a wee toddler, i used to wave my hands over my dads head and say.. Crystal Ball, Crystal Ball... he wasnt to happy about that :/	03:11
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Sir_Lancelot	xchat is 100000000x better than irssi	03:26
Sir_Lancelot	:D	03:26
* Sargun_Screen is a 100000x better than		03:27
* Sargun_Screen		03:27
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Proteous	LIES	03:30
Proteous	irssi == teh win	03:30
Proteous	nothing like saying how great your irc client is then getting disconneted	03:30
yuizy_	:D	03:31
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redeeman	Proteous: theres a difference between "getting" disconnected and disconnecting	03:32
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crashanddie	~redeeman++	03:32
dmj7261	It strikes me that a lot of games for maemo 5 are very artist unfriendly	03:34
simula_	do people shoot artists in these games?	03:34
dmj7261	no, they just hide the artwork in c files and other funky formats	03:34
simula_	ahhh	03:35
redeeman	your editor cannot read in a byte array from C files? :P	03:35
redeeman	image editor that is	03:35
dmj7261	It would be like asking a Isaac Newton to please do all of his publications via a hex editor	03:35
dmj7261	I'm sure you could get GIMP to do that if your really wanted to.	03:36
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simula_	i think somebody needs to add a note to the manpage	03:36
simula_	heh	03:37
dmj7261	I hope more games will be showing up for the n900 soon	03:39
simula_	i still have to try out the nes emulator	03:40
simula_	too busy trying to get the qt libs and qt-creator installed on the phone	03:40
redeeman	simula_: you have a toolchain on the phone?	03:41
simula_	you can get g++ and companions in one of the fancy repositories	03:42
simula_	i forget if it's extras-devel or sdk	03:43
simula_	or it might be another one	03:43
redeeman	i hope that installs to /opt - / doesn't have enough space for that	03:44
simula_	heh, nopes	03:44
simula_	they ate up all my root.. i'm down to like 10megs :)	03:44
simula_	i'll install everything i cook up to opt though	03:44
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Xisdibik	dmj7261: 47:72:61:76:69:74:79:20:69:73:20:61:62:6f:75:74:20:74:68:65:20:61:70:70:6c:65:20:66:61:6c:6c:69:6e:67:20:66:72:6f:6d:20:74:68:65:20:74:72:65:65:2e	03:49
dmj7261	?	03:49
Xisdibik	I wrote you something ;)	03:49
dmj7261	Your IPv8 address?	03:50
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Xisdibik	nop	03:50
Xisdibik	http://www.dolcevie.com/js/converter.html	03:50
dmj7261	hehe	03:51
Xisdibik	;)	03:51
dmj7261	I've written lots of things in hex, but I'd rather not draw pictures in it.	03:51
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tank-man	x-face maker :) http://www.dairiki.org/xface/xface.php	04:00
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AakashPatel	dmj7261: ivp8?	04:02
AakashPatel	IPv8*?	04:02
AakashPatel	Does that even exist yet? lol	04:02
dmj7261	a joke...we're still not fully on IPv6	04:02
dmj7261	no it doesn't	04:02
AakashPatel	Yeah haah	04:02
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dmj7261	(but it was too long to be IPv6	04:03
dmj7261	hmmm...could have vanity IP addresses, just like license plates.	04:03
AakashPatel	Yeah, tahts what i was wondering lol	04:03
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dmj7261	A corporation might choose something like:	04:04
dmj7261	47:6f:6f:67:6c:65:3a:20:44:6f:20:4e:6f:20:45:76:69:6c:2e	04:04
dmj7261	or	04:05
dmj7261	4d:61:65:6d:6f:3a:20:4c:61:73:65:72:20:50:65:6e:67:75:69:6e:73:2e	04:05
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dmj7261	or even	04:06
dmj7261	41:70:70:6c:65:3a:20:53:68:69:6e:79:20:53:68:69:74:2e	04:06
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dmj7261	http://www.dolcevie.com/js/converter.html	04:06
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zash	dmj7261: lol	04:12
dmj7261	shiny	04:12
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JoshTriplett1	Hi. I report and triage a lot of bugs in the Maemo bugzilla, and I wondered if I might request "canconfirm" or "editbugs" permission, so that I could more easily help with triage rather than just noting a necessary status change so someone else can make it. What procedure exists for requesting such permissions?	04:14
DocScrutinizer	dmj7261: .--. .-.. . .- ... . ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... -. --- -. ... . -. ... . ...-.-	04:15
JoshTriplett1	DocScrutinizer: What nonsense? ;)	04:16
dmj7261	hehe	04:16
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GeneralAntilles	JoshTriplett1, we don't really have a strong formal process for it.	04:17
GeneralAntilles	But talk to Andre about it.	04:17
* JoshTriplett1 fixes his nick.		04:17
*** JoshTriplett1 is now known as JoshTriplett		04:18
JoshTriplett	Must have gotten disconnected at some point. :)	04:18
GeneralAntilles	I'll ping him tomorrow if I remember.	04:18
JoshTriplett	GeneralAntilles: Thanks!	04:18
jebba900	anyone tried video plugin with pidgin?	04:20
GeneralAntilles	JoshTriplett, he's usually on here under andre__	04:20
GeneralAntilles	JoshTriplett, it's about 5 AM there, though. ;)	04:20
jebba900	JoshTriplett, also see #maemo-bugs and there is a bug day on the 15th, see the wiki	04:21
JoshTriplett	jebba900: Yeah, I saw that on Planet.	04:21
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microlith	woohoo, newegg charge for my N900	04:28
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DocScrutinizer51	microlith, gimme your account info. I'm happy to charge you as well if you enjoy it so much :-P	04:31
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* Xisdibik charges microlith's card aswell		04:43
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luke-jr	lol	04:45
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Vratha	hi	04:48
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Vratha	just got Nokia Messaging setup for my email today	04:48
Vratha	i wonder how much they plan to charge for that when it goes live	04:48
Vratha	if i have to, i'll just setup my home system to text message me when a new email arrives	04:48
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JoshTriplett	Vratha: I feel certain that won't prove necessary. :)	04:53
Vratha	you think it's going to remain a free service/	04:56
JoshTriplett	Vratha: Most likely, but even if it doesn't I feel certain that Maemo will support other mechanisms for achieving the same thing.	04:57
Vratha	maybe. i'm waiting to see inbox search and "smart folders"	04:57
Arkenoi	btw i do not see imap folders in gmail with nokia messaging and duplicate sent and draft folders instead :-( is it known bug?	05:00
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: The duplicate sent and drafts folders represents one of the most requested missing features.	05:00
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2557 and http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/keep_sent_and_drafts_on_imap_server/	05:01
povbot	Bug 2557: Keep Sent and Drafts on IMAP server	05:01
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: I don't know what you mean by the other issue.	05:01
JoshTriplett	Possibly an issue with IMAP subscriptions; I think Modest (the email client) only shows subscribed folders.	05:02
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Arkenoi	JoshTriplett, it is not local folders and server folders - it is two copies of server folders	05:03
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: Oh. That sounds like a different issue, then.	05:03
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: I don't know the problem there, sorry.	05:03
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: Possibly a known issue, possibly not. I'd suggest doing a quick search on bugzilla to see if you see the bug, and if not you should report it.	05:03
Arkenoi	one has "globe" icon and one has regular one, but the contents are the same - i see server-side messages that were not sent via nokia messaging in both	05:04
Arkenoi	and there are no subscription options, at least none i could find	05:05
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microlith	oooh	05:05
microlith	tracking number even	05:05
microlith	friday!	05:06
JoshTriplett	microlith: :)	05:06
JoshTriplett	microlith: I know that feeling. :)	05:07
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: Modest doesn't have any visible subscription options; it just hides any folder you haven't subscribed to.	05:07
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: But in any case, the behavior you described definitely sounds like a bug.	05:07
microlith	I can retire this ancient A1200	05:07
JoshTriplett	Arkenoi: You should report it.	05:07
timperi	amiga 1200?	05:08
microlith	Motorola	05:08
JoshTriplett	microlith: Heh. I can beat that: this replaces my Nokia 3120b. :)	05:08
timperi	;)	05:08
microlith	timperi: you must have big pockets :)	05:08
timperi	it's the nonfunctioning microphone that bothers me really	05:11
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ersin	hey does anyone know why hard vfp is disabled in scratchbox?	05:13
ersin	so silly that the n8x0 has a vfp unit and that it doesn't get used	05:14
ersin	i understand that a lot of apps are compiled w/ thumb to make them smaller	05:14
ersin	but there are still plenty that use softfp	05:14
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ersin	whoa looks like i disconnected	05:21
ersin	did anyone get my question?	05:22
JoshTriplett	ersin: Netsplit; not a problem on your end. :)(	05:22
JoshTriplett	Er, :)	05:22
DocScrutinizer51	yep	05:22
JoshTriplett	And yes, your question went to the channel before the netsplit.	05:22
ersin	O_O	05:22
ersin	netsplit?	05:22
ersin	is that an ice cream?	05:22
JoshTriplett	Heh.	05:22
DocScrutinizer51	freenode barfed	05:23
ersin	yikes	05:23
JoshTriplett	ersin: IRC means "internet relay chat"; the "relay" part means multiple servers pass messages back and forth.	05:23
JoshTriplett	ersin: Freenode, like most large IRC networks, has many servers.	05:23
jebba900	ok so the liq* apps are fantastic	05:23
ersin	gotcha	05:23
JoshTriplett	ersin: The connection between two of them got broken, and everyone on the wrong side saw everyone else disconnect. :)	05:23
ersin	hahah	05:23
ersin	that's kind of funny when you put it that way	05:24
ersin	like mass online schadefreude	05:24
luke-jr	FreeNode should setup redundancy -.-	05:24
JoshTriplett	ersin: You can see that in the quit messages; they all say "brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net". Means brown.freenode.net split off.	05:24
JoshTriplett	luke-jr: More redundancy, apparently. ;)	05:24
ersin	ah, thank you joshtriplett	05:24
luke-jr	JoshTriplett: afaik, FreeNode only uses a single connection between any two servers	05:25
ersin	so does anyone know about the vfp unit?	05:25
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luke-jr	vfp is not a unit	05:25
ersin	instruction	05:25
ersin	?	05:25
ersin	but the n800 has support for it built in, no?	05:25
ersin	yet scratchbox gcc only supports emulated vfp	05:25
Scummer	or irc.freenode.net split off.. depending on what side you're on :)	05:25
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ersin	or "softfp"	05:26
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr, if that's been a oopsie on simmons.freenode.net, it's hard to setup redundancy for it's users	05:26
derf	ersin: Assume anyting luke-jr tells you is wrong.	05:26
derf	vfp is a unit.	05:26
ersin	derf: lmao ok	05:27
ersin	that's what i thought...	05:27
luke-jr	derf: no u	05:27
luke-jr	Scummer: irc.freenode.net is not a server	05:27
Scummer	what ?	05:27
Scummer	*** Current server: irc.freenode.net 6667	05:28
Scummer	i disagree	05:28
ersin	dr_cain: pluto is not a planet	05:28
luke-jr	ersin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#VFP	05:28
luke-jr	Scummer: irc.freenode.net is a round-robin	05:28
Scummer	hmm...	05:29
derf	ersin: And yes, the N800 is ARM11, which has vfp.	05:29
ersin	right	05:29
ersin	so then why doesn't scratchbox support the hardware vfp by default?	05:29
Scummer	ok.. ok.. a dig does show multiple ip's for chat.freenode.net which is the cname for irc	05:29
DocScrutinizer51	irc.freenode.net is the whole infrastructure	05:29
derf	"softfp" does not actually mean software-emulated floating point.	05:29
derf	It's just specifying the ABI.	05:30
luke-jr	ersin: are you actually asking why an emulator is emulating?	05:30
ersin	what does it mean then? i do remember from compiling 770 kernels (which don't have vfp) that there is a kernel module for fp emulation	05:30
derf	ersin: 22:30:14 < derf> It's just specifying the ABI.	05:31
DocScrutinizer51	so the statement "for simmons.fn.net the irc.fn.net split off" is absolutely correct	05:31
ersin	luke-jr: um...yes, in a sense...why is it emulating when there's no need for it	05:31
ersin	derf: sorry i didn't see that	05:31
luke-jr	ersin: an x86 CPU is not going to support vfp, so ... there is a need for it	05:31
ersin	luke-jr: excuse me...? i'm talking about the n800	05:31
luke-jr	scratchbox on a N800?	05:31
ersin	no	05:32
ersin	that's not how cross compiling works...	05:32
ersin	you don't need a pc with vfp support to have a cross compiler that supports vfp	05:32
luke-jr	so why do you think this cross-compiler isn't making binaries that use vfp?	05:32
ersin	luke-jr: ...are you trolling?	05:33
luke-jr	no	05:33
ersin	luke-jr: that's the whole reason i came here, to ask if anyone knew why the compiler was doing that	05:33
ersin	are you familiar with scratchbox?	05:33
luke-jr	what makes you think the compiler is doing that?	05:33
ersin	because it only supports -mfloat-abi=softfp	05:34
luke-jr	nope, never touched it with a 10 foot pole	05:34
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luke-jr	that's an ABI	05:34
ersin	whereas other arm cross compilers support -mfloat-abi=hard	05:34
ersin	yes...yes it is	05:34
luke-jr	afaik softfp ABI can use vfp	05:34
derf	ersin: -mfloat-abi is _just_ the ABI.	05:34
ersin	derf: it seems fishy then that other places on the internet report using -mfloat-abi=hard	05:35
ersin	i mean, i guess my question then is if anyone knows what the difference is	05:35
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ersin	between "softfp" abi and "hard" abi	05:35
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derf	"Specifying `soft' causes GCC to generate output containing library calls for floating-point operations. `softfp' allows the generation of code using hardware floating-point instructions, but still uses the soft-float calling conventions. `hard' allows generation of floating-point instructions and uses FPU-specific calling conventions."	05:36
derf	From http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-Options.html	05:36
SpeedEvil	does the n900 have hardwarefpu?	05:36
derf	(or man gcc)	05:37
ersin	derf: thank you for that gem	05:37
DocScrutinizer51	I guess hard is using direct machine opcodes while soft uses the lib	05:37
ersin	so then essentially hard is more optimized	05:37
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: that's what vfp is...	05:37
derf	And note, for cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7, the default flags are	05:37
ersin	so why wouldn't diablo scratchbox use hard...?	05:37
derf	*cc1:	05:37
derf	-march=armv7a -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp %{.S:-mfpu=neon} -mfloat-abi=softfp -fno-omit-frame-pointer -fno-optimize-sibling-calls %(old_cc1)	05:37
luke-jr	ersin: most likely the reason it won't let you do ABI hard is because ScratchBox is specifically for targetting Maemo	05:37
luke-jr	and Maemo uses softfp	05:37
luke-jr	and the two ABIs are not compatible	05:37
ali1234	actually they are compatible on new eabi according to what i read	05:38
ersin	luke-jr: yes, obviously, but i'm saying why isn't the whole thing in hard???	05:38
ali1234	but does diablo use new eabi? i think not	05:38
luke-jr	ersin: OS2008 still supports 770 to some degree, perhaps?	05:38
ersin	hmm good point	05:38
ersin	alright then, i'll settle for softfp for now	05:39
luke-jr	the real question I have now is why my Gentoo on N810 is using softfp ;)	05:39
ali1234	SpeedEvil: cortex-a8 fpu infos: http://pandorawiki.org/Floating_Point_Optimization	05:39
ersin	but mark my words, one day fremantle will run on the n800 in all hard vfp	05:39
ali1234	the short answer is a8 has vfp but it has neon too, and neon is better	05:39
ersin	luke-jr: hah, of all distros to run unoptimized lol	05:40
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ersin	ali1234: i didn't think that n800 uses a8 cortex?	05:40
ali1234	ersin: it doesn't, n900 does	05:40
ersin	ali1234: gotcha	05:40
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ersin	alright well back to work for me, thanks everyone	05:41
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ali1234	does anyone know off hand what code sourcery version is used in fremantle sdk?	05:42
Scummer	git?	05:43
ali1234	no, gcc	05:43
ali1234	it will be something like 2007q3	05:43
derf	ali1234: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7	05:43
Scummer	ohh i thought versioning	05:43
derf	I just said.	05:43
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ali1234	sorry, i was reading that pandora page :)	05:44
jebba900	maep is great liteweight map tool	05:46
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Scummer	hmm.. supports google maps	05:47
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Scummer	jebba : you compiled it from the svn source ?	05:49
Scummer	seems like no .deb exists	05:49
DocScrutinizer51	is there tangogps for maemo?	05:50
jebba900	Scummer, i grabbed it from the repo maybe extras-devel	05:51
jebba900	DocScrutinizer, havent seen it yet	05:51
Scummer	jebba: ok	05:52
DocScrutinizer51	a pitty	05:52
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jebba900	doc maybe GL issue. i may have even tried to build it myself but hit lots of deps	05:55
jebba900	gnite	05:57
Scummer	maep is neat	05:58
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Scummer	cool.. maep uses a cycle map and shows bicycle path	06:00
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gahballs	snowcrash	06:04
DocScrutinizer51	is contacts and dialer open source?	06:04
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Scummer	scrutininzer: doesn't the SDK tell you this ?	06:09
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DocScrutinizer51	Scummer, I bet it would. Alas itMs not yet installed on my laptop with that crammed hd	06:14
Scummer	terabytes are cheap :)	06:16
DocScrutinizer51	not for laptop replayement. just the moving of whole system to new hd costs some downtime which I can't afford ATM	06:17
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Scummer	hm.. i externally attached my new drive, moved all my docs over and swapped the internal for the new bigger hd	06:20
Scummer	apps were reinstalled	06:21
Scummer	on the other hand.. apps are easily moved in os x	06:21
DocScrutinizer51	yeah. Fact is, I got no SDK yet. So you got an answer?	06:23
gahballs	scummer apps are easy, when drive dies taking 200 gb of organised data its more of a hassle	06:24
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Scummer	scrutinized : one sec	06:25
* gahballs is looking at data disaster. tho hopefully what remains will be the cream.		06:26
DocScrutinizer51	gahballs, ouch. No fictive case :-\	06:28
gahballs	its not so bad i have incremental and essential backups	06:28
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gahballs	its just the first time in years my core dev stuff has all been vaped and will tak some time to get back in place	06:29
gahballs	thankfully my linux stuff is rock solid	06:30
Scummer	hmm.. odd.. i thought i had scratchbox installed already	06:31
gahballs	just cant get to net through it cos windows is in the way and i dont want to send traffic through machine whilst its disk scanning	06:31
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gahballs	whats phase 5 on scandisk for	06:36
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Scummer	whats scandisk? windoze tool ?	06:39
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gahballs	scummer yeah	06:39
gahballs	ok maemo question.	06:40
gahballs	where can i gwt a hannah montana screensaver for my girlfiends n900	06:40
arachnist	http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/09/2215253 <\| lol	06:41
Scummer	uhhh	06:41
gahballs	serious scummer i can ger one for s60 from the app store	06:42
gahballs	why not maemo	06:42
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* gahballs gets breakfast		06:44
Scummer	darn.. scratchbox takes up quite some spaec	06:44
gahballs	its about 1/2gb isnt it?	06:45
derf	Significantly more.	06:45
Scummer	1.3GB it appears	06:45
gahballs	f is that with all targets and toolkits tho	06:45
Scummer	this is without the SDK	06:46
gahballs	gulp	06:46
Scummer	i only gave that virtual machine 10g's...	06:46
gahballs	who wants baconbutty	06:46
Macer	lol	06:46
Scummer	dang	06:46
Macer	ninja assassin	06:46
Macer	100lbs of gold!	06:46
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Scummer	hurray for 4Mb downloads, even tho my speed is 16Mbit grumble slow scratchbox server ?	06:48
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arachnist	i just wonder	06:49
gahballs	maybe, anyone got any milk im out and tmilkman aint due for a while	06:49
arachnist	if i already have armv7-unknown-linux-gnueabi crosscompiler	06:50
arachnist	and qemu	06:50
arachnist	armv7l*	06:50
arachnist	do i really need scratchbox?	06:50
Scummer	the SDK install asks for it	06:50
Scummer	i guess you could just modify the script to have the sources downloaded without scratchbox...	06:51
derf	Right now, my /opt/scratchbox is (according to du):	06:51
derf	8.3G total	06:51
gahballs	crikey derf	06:51
Scummer	derf: is that with source only?	06:52
* hardaker thinks porting stuff to the N900 is like chasing a dependency tree from hell where you have to build every package known to man first.		06:52
Scummer	derf: or are there some compiled bins in there as well ?	06:52
derf	That's with 5 or so targets and at least two devkits.	06:52
Scummer	8G's.. mother of god	06:52
gahballs	hardaker you are doing it wrong. if however you startewd by getting sources for something else, yeah it an get like that	06:53
derf	I didn't even bother install an x86 target for fremantle, because that's at least another half a GB wasted.	06:53
gahballs	i just let the gji installer do its magic	06:53
gahballs	gui	06:53
gahballs	on a clean ubuntu	06:53
Scummer	it does say that scratchbox is a precondition for installing SDK in the install script	06:54
Scummer	i'm using a clean debian	06:54
hardaker	gahballs: yeah... the problem is that on a full linux system, of course, they try to get everything under the sun into a package. So taking a debian build directory from ubuntu and putting it in scratchbox invariably tries to pull in a gazzilion things that is "optional"	06:54
arachnist	i don't really understand why are you so picky about hdd space, anyway	06:55
Scummer	ah hell no.. /tmp is full	06:55
Scummer	:/	06:55
microlith	nice, the billing info for my phone was received 4 hours before my package was scanned at its origin	06:56
* arachnist has 2x 1TB drives in a nice raid1 array		06:56
DocScrutinizer51	Scummer, TB are cheap ;-P	06:56
gahballs	oh crap	06:56
Scummer	scrut: hehe.. yes.. i do have a 2TBx4 raid5 on my mythtv box :)	06:56
Scummer	but that's for movies.. not for scratchbox dang it	06:57
gahballs	i have drive fail on other one now. i get the feeling the mobo isying	06:57
arachnist	and in 4 months i'm going to get 7x 1.5TB drives, build a raidz2 zfs pool from 6 of them and use one as a spare	06:57
hardaker	Scummer: so you're porting the .022 mythtv interface then for me?	06:58
hardaker	pretty please?	06:58
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Scummer	hard: nope.. i'm not a progger.. i just play with that stuff :)	06:58
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gahballs	vme kicks windows	07:10
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lcuk	whats the recommended girly phone nowadays, n97 mini or still something like the 5800	07:21
johnx	are you pretty set on Nokia?	07:22
hardaker	iphone	07:22
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hardaker	spraypainted pink	07:22
johnx	...including the screen :)	07:22
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Macer	ninja assassin is depressing	07:22
Arkenoi	lcuk, htc hero	07:22
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johnx	hardaker, but, in that case you might as well get this: http://www.iphonedummy.net/	07:23
* lcuk facepalms		07:23
Scummer	hehe	07:23
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Arkenoi	5800 sucks big time	07:23
lcuk	damn all my recent links and things saved have gone	07:23
lcuk	theres a pink cover for n900	07:23
johnx	Macer, yeah, kinda	07:24
lcuk	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-PINK-HYBRID-HARD-COVER-RUBBER-CASE-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ150394071202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item23042f68a2	07:24
johnx	oooh, hybrid!	07:24
johnx	somehow it makes the N900 look very 80's	07:24
lcuk	and tracy went gaga when i showed it her	07:25
lcuk	she had just told me the day before she would have an n900 if it was pink	07:25
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Scummer	tell her black is the new pink	07:26
lcuk	Scummer, she has used n900 for a while now	07:28
Macer	johnx: you saw it?	07:28
lcuk	and just wont have one in her handbag unless it matches her other stuff	07:28
Macer	hahaha	07:28
Macer	it cracks me up	07:28
johnx	Macer, at the cinnebarre (which is basically the best invention ever)	07:29
Macer	cinnebarre hahaha	07:29
microlith	lcuk: that is very... bright	07:29
johnx	Macer, you have one in your area too?	07:29
lcuk	microlith, you wont lose it	07:30
Macer	we have something similar	07:30
microlith	lcuk: certainly not	07:30
lcuk	i think my computer is working again	07:30
lcuk	tho i lost 350gb of media	07:30
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lcuk	and had to physically pull the newest drive :(	07:30
Scummer	lcuk : sounds like high maintenance	07:31
lcuk	Scummer, the drive or my girlfriend?	07:31
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Scummer	the gf of course :)	07:32
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Macer	you have to love when ninja swoop in and kill a thousand special forces guys	07:33
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johnx	Macer, yup, and it's even better when you can sit back and drink a beer while watching it on the big screen :D	07:34
inz	lcuk,my wife wanted a pink phone, she ended up with blackberry (which doesn't even work properly here in finland)	07:34
lcuk	inz lol	07:34
inz	All the cool blackberry features depend on operator support. Plain GPRS (EDGE) works of course, if you use opera, and gmail app works too	07:35
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* lcuk nods		07:36
lcuk	right, computer so far seems stable	07:36
lcuk	tho ive lost all my firefox settings	07:37
lcuk	and nothing at all got written to a disk yesterday	07:37
lcuk	which concerns me	07:37
Macer	ninjas fighting in the street!!	07:39
Macer	what kind of ninjas just fight in the street? :)	07:40
johnx	Macer, pissed off ninjas	07:40
Macer	i suppose	07:40
johnx	I mean, did any of them look particularly happy?	07:40
derf	Ninjas can fight anywhere they want.	07:40
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derf	They could fight in your boudoir without you noticing.	07:41
Macer	johnx: well. nobody really looks happy in this movie	07:41
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RST38h	derf: In fact, they do it all the time.	07:41
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Scummer	still installing.. no wonder i hadn't installed scratchbox before.. takes half a lifetime	07:45
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DocScrutinizer51	darn. want that pink monstrosity in black	07:59
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, you mean a black protective shell?	07:59
DocScrutinizer51	yep	08:00
* RST38h moos at lcuk		08:00
lcuk	i kinda agree, if it clips on like it looks like it does, id actually like to see that as a base unit for keesjs push n button thing	08:00
lcuk	hey RST38h	08:00
lcuk	hows it goin	08:00
RST38h	slow, snowy	08:01
lcuk	same most places	08:01
lcuk	i had a snowcrash day yesterday	08:01
JoshTriplett	Anyone have any experience with N900s that refuse to boot? Mine wouldn't wake up, and when I plug it in to charge it still won't turn on. After plugging it in, it shows the Nokia logo with no backlight, then starts pulsing the orange light, and keeps pulsing it even if I unplug it.	08:01
JoshTriplett	No response to the power button, lock button, or anything else.	08:01
Macer	wow that was a stupid movie :)	08:01
JoshTriplett	I've read through the various sources I could find via Google, and didn't find much of use.	08:02
RST38h	lcuk: A few days ago, wife spent 6 hours on the belt road	08:02
lcuk	JoshTriplett, have you taken the battery out	08:02
RST38h	lcuk: 18:15 - 00:15. Literally.	08:02
lcuk	belt road? why does that sound familiar, is that the rly bad one heading out of moscow?	08:02
RST38h	lcuk: Now, it is a ring around the city	08:03
JoshTriplett	lcuk: Yup. Took out the battery, waited a bit, put it in, no response. Of course, I say that, and I just tried it again and now it works. Go figure. :)	08:03
JoshTriplett	lcuk: Anti-demo-gods; it works when trying to debug it. ;)	08:03
DocScrutinizer51	JoshTriplett, the flashing of LED means nothing as it's controlled by a dedicated chip	08:03
RST38h	lcuk: Proofpics of the disaster here: http://riverpilgrim.livejournal.com/249152.html	08:03
JoshTriplett	Oh. Except now it froze on the five-white-dots screen.	08:03
Macer	"This is not a joke, you are or 100,000th visitor Click here"	08:03
Macer	well.. if it says it's not a joke...	08:03
lcuk	JoshTriplett, please check for bug reports on that - bugs.maemo.org	08:03
JoshTriplett	DocScrutinizer51: It seems odd, though, that it would keep pulsing without the power attached.	08:04
lcuk	crikey!	08:04
JoshTriplett	lcuk: I have, and I see several such reports, but nothing that seems to match the symptoms exactly. Or rather, nobody seems to have a clue. :)	08:04
DocScrutinizer51	JoshTriplett, it just means nobody switched the chip	08:04
DocScrutinizer51	and of course it means your bat has enough life to power the LED	08:05
lcuk	JoshTriplett, then charge it fully today and have fun, if you reproduce again file a specific bug with your symptoms/actions and the bods can have a look	08:05
Arkenoi	rst38h i see you wake up damn early ;-)	08:06
* JoshTriplett tries booting it again to see if it manages to boot.		08:06
lcuk	RST38h, traffic is bad	08:06
JoshTriplett	Nope, freezes at the same point.	08:06
RST38h	Arkenoi: Well, kids, etc	08:06
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk, seems to me ther's nothing to file. It probably just needed some time sitting and charging the completely drained bat	08:06
RST38h	lcuk: that was kinda several degrees beyond "bad" :)	08:07
JoshTriplett	DocScrutinizer51: Not even close to drained.	08:07
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, but as he said if theres no specific same bug rpeort that cant be clarified or commented on in place	08:07
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DocScrutinizer51	JoshTriplett, that's a bug then	08:07
JoshTriplett	lcuk: Well, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6334 seems the closest, but as with many such vague bugs, it has a pile of people trying to "help", not all of which necessarily have the same problem.	08:08
povbot	Bug 6334: random reboots	08:08
JoshTriplett	Er, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 rather.	08:08
povbot	Bug 6350: random reboot bricks device	08:08
JoshTriplett	Yeah, that one. :)	08:08
RST38h	How do you call it a reboot if the device never reboots? =)	08:08
* lcuk remembers the days when bricked meant bricked		08:08
lcuk	poof! goes the magic smoke and the device will never work again	08:09
* DocScrutinizer51 sighs semntimentally		08:09
RST38h	And the devices had real power switches then	08:09
JoshTriplett	lcuk: I didn't title the bug. ;) I agree with you, "bricked" means "not recoverable without JTAG".	08:09
DocScrutinizer51	hehe exactly	08:10
JoshTriplett	lcuk: "recoverable by flashing over USB" (which I hope this one qualifies as) doesn't come close to "bricked".	08:10
* lcuk nods		08:10
RST38h	Where do I get FBreader codebase?	08:10
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* pupnik_ is pondering making maps of his area for image viewer		08:10
lcuk	you can apt-get source if its in the repos, or from fbreader.org	08:11
RST38h	pupnik: Maemo Mapper does not?	08:11
RST38h	lcuk: Would really like to get the current source, rather than the last one in the repo	08:11
pupnik_	it demands internet constanyly RST38h	08:11
lcuk	fbreader.org	08:11
RST38h	pupnik: You can predownload maps and then it does not	08:11
RST38h	lcuk: aha	08:12
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hardaker	sweet.	08:13
hardaker	git works.	08:13
RST38h	ok, maemo version is there	08:13
hardaker	now, when is my ugrade account going to be active.	08:13
pupnik_	RST38h: there seems to ba no cache setting	08:14
JoshTriplett	Info added as https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350#c24	08:18
povbot	Bug 6350: random reboot bricks device	08:18
RST38h	pupnik: There is something like Manage Maps where you can preload them	08:18
JoshTriplett	As said in that comment, happy to try gathering some information before re-flashing.	08:18
RST38h	(if I remember correctly that is)	08:18
RST38h	pupnik: Also try eCoach, it is rather good at maps	08:18
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RST38h	Ok, I have found where I bind keys in FBreader	08:26
RST38h	I cannot figure out how to add modifiers though	08:26
Arkenoi	EoV looks so like early 90's ;-)	08:30
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RST38h	Ahhahahahahahaaaaa!	08:40
RST38h	Yesssss, yesssss my preciousssss	08:40
RST38h	I have found you	08:40
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derf	Don't make me call the Nazgûls to come take you away.	08:43
RST38h	No, no, not the ring	08:44
RST38h	Modifier definitions in FBreader	08:44
RST38h	I can now make it toggle full screen on ctrl+enter	08:44
DocScrutinizer51	wowie	08:44
lcuk	RST38h, great, so do you submit a patch to the fbreader guys and hope thye push it through or find a new maintainr for maemo	08:47
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Arkenoi	RST38h, well, i just set it to a key via preferences menu	08:51
RST38h	lcuk: Well, I will try submitting a patch to geometer, but the hopes are not high for it to be included	08:51
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lcuk	ok, so how does something like this get dealt with	08:52
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lcuk	RST38h, did you file the bug originally on fbreader	08:53
lcuk	cos if its something specific we couldv crowdsourced interest in it	08:53
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RST38h	lcuk: I can upload my own version to Extras	08:59
RST38h	lcuk: And send a patch to geometer after the fact	08:59
lcuk	id rather avoid a fork if at all possible	08:59
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RST38h	lcuk: It is not really a fork, just a fe changes	08:59
RST38h	lcuk: But this way if the patch does not get integrated, the main maintainer will get a shitstorm on his hands	09:00
lcuk	yeah and when he pushes a version in the future it will conflict	09:00
lcuk	thats a fork \o/	09:00
RST38h	won't conflict	09:00
lcuk	mer has a process to put in patches to upstream components	09:00
RST38h	will replace mine -> features missing -> shitstorm -> features added	09:00
lcuk	reproducably and in a manageable manner	09:01
lcuk	thats a fork RST38h however you wrap it up.	09:01
RST38h	well, I will try submitting a patch but if the guy does not accept it so be it	09:01
lcuk	if theres a bug report relating to the patch you are going to submit, those of us interested in fbreader on our platform can shout in there too	09:01
lcuk	no point in just one person submitting a random patch	09:02
RST38h	I am mainly interested in making my own life easier, not in greater good	09:02
lcuk	he needs to know the platform is using his sw and that decent devs have made a patch :)	09:02
* lcuk nods		09:02
RST38h	So, if someone wants the new package or a patch, he is welcome	09:02
RST38h	Otherwise, I couldn't care less	09:02
RST38h	<work	09:03
lcuk	i know	09:03
lcuk	thats the problem in itself, its not like we have someone able to deal with package ports and patching	09:03
lcuk	:D maemo.org forkmaster	09:04
PaulFertser	Hey :) Is anyone using the ``powertop'' utility on n8x0? I think it might be mad useful on a zero-clock based system.	09:04
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PaulFertser	I tried enabling TIMER_STATS that is needed for it to output anything useful but something's segfaulting during the system startup.	09:05
PaulFertser	Known issue?	09:05
lcuk	Stskeeps, how would distmaster recommend to deal with that kind of problem	09:05
lcuk	(the fbreader usability patch)	09:05
PaulFertser	And does n900 comes with it by default? I think it's a must have utility to ensure low power consumption.	09:05
lcuk	dunno PaulFertser i tihnk techs might still be sleeping	09:05
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* lcuk is eating bacon		09:05
PaulFertser	lcuk: ah, right, /me leaves in an unusual timezone :)	09:06
PaulFertser	2 hours make difference	09:06
lcuk	where r you?	09:06
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PaulFertser	lcuk: gmt+3	09:09
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Myrtti	MEH. atleast there's snow today. otherwise I wouldn't bother.	09:14
Vratha	is there a way to make the wifi on the n900 "go to sleep" when the phone isn't being used? this would be similar to the iphone and it disconnecting from wifi to conserve battery	09:15
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Arkenoi	Looks like event description is not synced from google calendar :-(	09:16
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flux	vratha, I don't think so	09:27
tigert	Vratha: it does sleep	09:27
Vratha	aww :(	09:27
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tigert	Vratha: it just doesnt disconnect	09:27
Vratha	oh, well, it would be nice if it disconnected, turning the radio off completely	09:27
tigert	there are various ways to do powersaving on wlan	09:27
Vratha	or at least have an option for htat	09:27
flux	tigert, I wonder how silent it can be to still remain connected..	09:28
tigert	thats offline mode then	09:28
Vratha	tigert: doesn't that require me to manually disconnect?	09:28
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flux	I suppose if the dbus-interface for controlling network onnectivity was known, it wouldn't be a big task to write such a tool	09:28
tigert	yes and it kills phone too	09:28
Arkenoi	syncs ok up (phone to google) but not vice versa	09:28
Vratha	no, you can just disconect from wifi	09:28
Vratha	which is what i do now after having owned the phone a few days since the battery was dying. having done that today, the phone battery last WAAAAY longer	09:29
flux	actually what slightly annoyes me is that if I've configured it to automatically go online connect whenever it can, I cannot simply disconnect (it'll reconnect shortly after), I need to dig into the menus do disable automatic connecting	09:29
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sejo_n900	morning all	09:30
tigert	flux: well yeah	09:30
Vratha	flux: uncheck "Switch to wifi when available" in the internet connection settings	09:30
tigert	thats how autoconnect kinda should work :)	09:31
tigert	but yea, do like Vratha says	09:31
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Stskeeps	morn	09:38
sejo_n900	hey Stskeeps	09:38
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Arkenoi	wow, finally, latitude/googlemaps problem solved: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26630&page=6 - if we could only scroll it with finger..	09:56
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pupnik_	Nokia N900 just survived a fall from shirt pocket onto concrete!	10:02
Vratha	short of unplugging/replugging the usb cable on the n900, can i take the n900 out of "USB mass storage mode" after unmounting from the host pc?	10:03
Proteous	you are a dedicated tester pupnik_	10:03
pupnik_	lid and battery flew all over - no scratches or anything	10:03
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pupnik_	fantastic!	10:03
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Xisdibik	pupnik_: no scratches on the case either?	10:06
Xisdibik	is it in a shell?	10:07
pupnik_	no scratches, no shell	10:07
* luke-jr wonders if people with loaner N900s are liable for damage		10:07
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pupnik_	Well, i think i should advertise it on T.M.O	10:08
pupnik_	to balance some of my whining	10:08
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ShadowJK	Vratha, no	10:14
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ShadowJK	wow, n900 seems to have charged from computer-usb in "charging only" mode, I thought that was the crappy one	10:24
Vratha	ShadowJK: suck. they should add that	10:25
Vratha	learning the fun of dbus-send. maybe i'll be able to send an sms with it soon	10:26
Vratha	but for now: sleep	10:26
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DocScrutinizer51	Vratha, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#DBUS	10:29
wazd	hello maemo	10:30
Stskeeps	morn wazd :)	10:30
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Vratha	DocScrutinizer51: pretty sweet. unfortunately i don't see any SMS stuff there	10:31
Vratha	but i'll take a look at some libs later; i need sleep now	10:32
* Vratha &		10:32
RST38h	hello wazd	10:33
* RST38h managed to add Ctrl-Enter shortcut to FBReader to toggle full screen		10:33
RST38h	Pending: taking over +/- buttons and fixing a heap corruption on exit	10:34
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frals	wow, think ive done something to my device, takes forever to register taps on the screen and launching anything takes forever	10:35
Stskeeps	frals: do you have browser open?	10:35
frals	nope, just rebooted as well	10:36
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frals	should probably reflash, went a bit crazy on extras-devel last night :P	10:36
Stskeeps	yeah	10:36
Stskeeps	:P	10:36
frals	the load is low thou	10:36
Arkenoi	rst38h: there already is a patch for +/- buttons, have you seen it?	10:37
frals	on the other hand it has swapped 32megs	10:37
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Stskeeps	RST38h: i actually think you managed to calm down the GPS bug	10:38
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iDialekt	2 Nokia flagship usa stores closing.	10:40
iDialekt	:(	10:40
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: any thoughts about powertop?	10:43
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Stskeeps	PaulFertser: n8x0 powertop experiments won't work sadly. there was something about the way the kernel is made and something that doesn't work	10:43
luke-jr	wtf is powertop	10:44
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: exactly, the stock kernel is compiled without TIMER_STATS	10:44
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: and with it breaks wifi, i think	10:44
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ShadowJK	luke-jr, shows you how much timer abuse apps are doing	10:44
PaulFertser	luke-jr: mad cool utility to track who the hell spends cycles, i.e. by waking up and doing something useless.	10:44
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: oh no, why is it always so hard :\|	10:44
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: the n900 is so much nicer in some regards :P	10:45
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: does it come with powertop preinstalled?	10:45
ShadowJK	and time spent in various CPU sleep states, and on N900 you even get a table with various subsystems of the SOC and the amount of time they spent in sleep/etc	10:45
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: installable, afaik	10:45
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: old version had it preinstalled	10:45
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: ah, that's cool, an improvement indeed.	10:45
hrw	morning	10:45
ShadowJK	it looks very different from the powertop on desktop, though it's the same info more or less..	10:45
X-Fade	Hmm it seems I need to kill the erlang build. It is really stalled :(	10:46
hrw	ShadowJK: arm != x86(-64)	10:46
ShadowJK	yeah but the powertop on my PC is like interactive..	10:46
RST38h	Arkenoi: the one in the repo is not a patch for +/- buttons	10:46
Arkenoi	yep	10:46
RST38h	Arkenoi: The one by qwerty12 I have seen the binaries but not the source	10:46
RST38h	Arkenoi: But I kinda know what is in the patch	10:46
Arkenoi	there were sources nearby iirc as well	10:47
RST38h	It sets a few XAtoms on every focus-on	10:47
RST38h	focus-in sorry	10:47
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ShadowJK	xchat looks pretty obnoxious on powertop's list :-)	10:47
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RST38h	no wonder	10:47
ShadowJK	I bet it's keeping flood-throttle and lagcheck timers active all the time	10:48
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RST38h	it crashes when you save config	10:49
RST38h	so, that is a no-go for me	10:49
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ShadowJK	I scp'd the conf from my N810... heh	10:49
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PaulFertser	luke-jr: so how do you find the power hogs on n8x0?	10:49
ShadowJK	the old fashioned way, switch random stuff off and see how long until battery is empty	10:50
RST38h	holy fuck...I know why N900 goes so slow with time	10:50
hrw	RST38h: memleaks?	10:50
ShadowJK	swap fragmentation	10:50
RST38h	hrw: Better!	10:50
RST38h	ShadowJK: No, better!	10:50
ShadowJK	oh?	10:50
RST38h	11 copies of Modest hanging in memory	10:50
hrw	cpuleak?	10:50
ShadowJK	lol	10:51
hrw	RST38h: modest... it suxx badly in 42-11	10:51
ShadowJK	oh hey, I have two :)	10:51
* RST38h hates that fucking excuse for a mail client and whoever came up with it		10:51
ShadowJK	(I dont even use it, though I might've tapped the email icon by mistake once or twice)	10:51
* ShadowJK wonders if the DSP is part of "core" on powertop		10:51
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ShadowJK	or iva2	10:52
luke-jr	PaulFertser: I don't.	10:52
Arkenoi	are firmware updates painless on n900 or is it something like we had on earlier versions - backup, reflash, restore?	10:52
luke-jr	I just get annoyed at Nokia for my battery lasting 2.5 hrs	10:52
PaulFertser	luke-jr: do you by any chance know who does?	10:52
luke-jr	:p	10:52
luke-jr	nope	10:53
hrw	Arkenoi: diablo had non-reflashing updates	10:53
hrw	Arkenoi: maemo5 is supposed to have that way too	10:53
Arkenoi	sounds good	10:53
Myrtti	OY! Atleast with maemo you can do the reflashing with Linux!	10:54
Myrtti	it's an improvement!	10:54
DocScrutinizer51	no powertop on any of the repos I'm aware of so far	10:55
PaulFertser	luke-jr: no wonder, you use .30 with gentoo and i've been told .30 lacks almost all PM.	10:55
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, it must be there, I managed to install it?	10:55
* Myrtti waited for a year to get her N95 updated because she had no Windows machine - and then on a first date she was hooked by the line "I've got a Windows laptop in my hotel room, do you want me to flash yours"		10:55
PaulFertser	DocScrutinizer51: nokia customers are so clueless they have no use for it? ;)	10:55
ShadowJK	My N810's battery degraded to unusably in like 1.5 years	10:55
ShadowJK	My E70 never got any newer firmware, and my E75 supported OTA updates already..	10:56
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Myrtti	then I read the vim pocket guide I got as a present while he was flashing the phone.	10:57
iDialekt	I'm so scared to go maemo now	10:57
iDialekt	Just cause the stores closing down	10:57
iDialekt	Frightens me	10:57
Myrtti	iDialekt: the stores are a fairly new thing, and things worked fine before they existed	10:58
Myrtti	s/are/were/	10:58
infobot	Myrtti meant: iDialekt: the stores were a fairly new thing, and things worked fine before they existed	10:58
iDialekt	True	10:58
luke-jr	PaulFertser: no, I am running .21	10:58
luke-jr	diablo	10:58
iDialekt	But it scares me into thinking of less north American support than they already don't have	10:59
RST38h	ShadowJK: E70 got 3 firmware updates, then nothing	10:59
PaulFertser	Myrtti: LOL	10:59
PaulFertser	Myrtti: it was a mixed feeling, wasn't it?	11:00
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ShadowJK	RST38h, I must've bought mine after the last one :-)	11:00
iDialekt	Dammit. I hope maemo gets more software support soon	11:00
Myrtti	PaulFertser: what, the flashing or the vim pocket guide?	11:00
Myrtti	the pocket guide was, yes. I'm an emacs user.	11:00
Myrtti	which is why he bought and gave it to me	11:00
RST38h	iDialekt: what sw support are you talking about?	11:01
RST38h	Myrtti: PICO.	11:01
iDialekt	I dunno just more apps in general I guess.	11:01
RST38h	iDialekt: How typical...	11:01
Myrtti	later, I got mixed feelings about the flashing too, when he told me it wasn't the first time he had used that line to pick up girls :-DDDDD	11:01
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iDialekt	Wide selection. I know there are a lot being porter	11:01
Myrtti	AAAANYway	11:01
iDialekt	Ported	11:01
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iDialekt	Like IM clients, video applications, multiple browsers? Google maps?	11:02
Myrtti	google maps? what do you mean, ported?	11:03
ShadowJK	there's a program called google maps too	11:03
iDialekt	Is there a google maps application for maemo platform?	11:03
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Myrtti	ShadowJK: for linux? URL or it didn't happen	11:03
iDialekt	Or simply have to visit the web ?	11:03
ShadowJK	Myrtti, not for linux, no	11:03
Myrtti	ShadowJK: touché	11:03
iDialekt	All I'm saying is for someone that is on the fence with switching platforms.. One would worry about the popularity of an OS for support in the form of apps, community, future compatibility etc	11:04
iDialekt	I'm aware that most techies or gurus may not care	11:05
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iDialekt	They just wait and defend the platform no matter what the cost because they are developing for it or just inspired by the nature of the os itself	11:05
ShadowJK	hm, with killall -STOP xchat temporarily, CPU is even spending some time in C4 (completely stopped?).. with xchat active, CPU never went to deeper sleep than 250MHz.. I guess this is why I get the feeling that me using the thing seems to have very little impact on battery life compared to letting it just sit untouched in pocket (with xchat running)	11:05
iDialekt	Hence sentenced like the one above	11:06
iDialekt	Sentences *	11:06
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ShadowJK	Well most techies or gurus aren't worried, because the platform is so similar to mainstream linux... it's not like symbian, which is more like a bunch of people had come together and designed something as developer hostile as possible	11:07
PaulFertser	So, does anyone have any hints on finding powerhogs on n8x0 pretty please? Or am i /ignored by too many participants already?	11:07
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iDialekt	ShadowJK: Completely understandable	11:07
iDialekt	Well I'm one of those users simply ready to switch platforms but am fearful of the unknown. Unfamiliar	11:08
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: htop was the old way :P	11:08
iDialekt	Although from my experience the n900 functioned similar to symbian . Wasn't too scary	11:08
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: sure, but somehow at least some stats on power states would be nice to be able to properly evaluate the impact of killing some suspcious app.	11:09
ShadowJK	PaulFertser, find/google for ftd and ftd-plugin-bme, might be floating around somewhere still.. "Average phone current" field is the instantaneous consumption of power. You can make it log to a file, which comes in handy when you want to average the instantaneous consumption over, say, a minute or so. Close/open/remove/add stuff and see if power consumption changes. The meter is not useful when connected to charger	11:09
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: yeah.. see if it works with TIMER_STATS and wifi	11:09
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i'll try. Not exactly handy without proper serial console since upon starting mer something segfaults and then the system remains unaccessible via cdc_ether.	11:10
PaulFertser	ShadowJK: Ok, that sounds promising, thanks :D	11:11
* ShadowJK is sad to see Nokia Energy Profiler missing from production N900 :(		11:12
red	guess it wasnt ported	11:12
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: request it? :P	11:12
* PaulFertser imagines some evil-nokia conspirology explanation		11:12
Stskeeps	red: it does exist it seems	11:12
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Myrtti	oooohh, it's a COOKIE	11:13
red	payware via ovi once it launches?	11:13
ShadowJK	the s60 version is free	11:13
ShadowJK	Stskeeps, I saw someone requested it on the mailing list already... the replies were kinda vague :/	11:14
frals	hmm, slowness went away after second reboot as i was prepared to reflash, interesting ;D	11:14
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: write something with BME_Protocol..	11:14
Stskeeps	:P	11:14
ShadowJK	Let's hope it hasn't changed :)	11:14
Stskeeps	didn't check yet	11:14
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Stskeeps	guess we'll find out when my n900 burns when i try to install toggles' hald-addon-bme on my n900	11:15
Markus23	DocScrutinizer51: cool page (about DBUS), is dbus-send-speaker-off the ways to put it in silent mode?	11:16
ShadowJK	well, bme on N8x0 crashed/died whenever fed garbage or the app talking to it not eating all data, so if you don't disable lifeguards it'll just throw reboots at you.. wait, no initfs with dsme on n900... hm, this could be interesting? :)	11:16
Stskeeps	dsme exists still	11:16
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ShadowJK	So I guess boot from emmc/sd and fish bme&friends out of nand?	11:17
ShadowJK	or did you get the binaries deal worked out and implemented already?	11:18
Stskeeps	well everything kinda got thrown up in the air once i got the maemo.org job, so re-evaluating things	11:18
Stskeeps	:P	11:18
red	tested transmission yesterday, 600kb/sec 1 torrent 40 connections and my phone was freezing like hell	11:19
ShadowJK	funny, I thought that binaries thing would've been exactly the thing covered by your job description :)	11:19
red	i dont suppose rtorrent is available for maemo via apt-get?	11:19
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red	i prefer dling podcasts via toansmission due the timed throttling functionality	11:21
red	as opposed to like gpodder	11:21
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Markus23	jebba900: did repartition work for you?	11:24
Markus23	I think best would be NAND flash only holding /boot	11:24
Markus23	and the rest normal / and /home separation, /home maybe FAT32 for win users	11:24
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slonopotamus	really wow	11:31
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Stskeeps	slonopotamus: you got a n900 for free?	11:31
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, yes!	11:31
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: scary	11:31
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Stskeeps	slonopotamus: they must really be trying to kill gentoo for n8x0, it must be a competitor ;p	11:32
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* slonopotamus starts believing in santa claus again		11:32
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Stskeeps	so how did they know you were a tablet developer?	11:33
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florian	good morning	11:36
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, dunno. i only saw a girl who just gave it to me, she had no idea what it is all about. she suggested contacting to manager who sent me email initially	11:36
Stskeeps	scary	11:37
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red	why does the phone vibrate while i click the touchscreen sometimes	11:39
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, ah! earlier, someone from same company invited me to n900 presentation here. but i _didn't_ go :)	11:39
Stskeeps	ah	11:39
X-Fade	red: That is called haptic feedback.	11:40
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red	can be disabled without disabling vibration alltogether?	11:40
X-Fade	red: Sure, display settings	11:40
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, however i don't see how not going to presentations make you receive $1k presents :)	11:40
red	ah	11:40
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: playing hard to get?	11:40
red	i somehow thought sound	11:41
red	stupid heh	11:41
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slonopotamus	anyone else got n900 for free? :)	11:42
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red	got it ty	11:42
mece	I got 2 for free, and one I had to pay for.	11:42
slonopotamus	meh. now i need to migrate my stuff from both n800 and phone there	11:42
slonopotamus	mece, 2? :)	11:43
mece	it's for work	11:43
red	i got it for 160e cheaper if that counts	11:43
slonopotamus	mece, doesn't count :)	11:43
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mece	slonopotamus, well in that case I did not get an N900 for free.	11:44
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red	had 3 iphones break down on me in 1,5 months so i requested to change device with my provider	11:44
red	shitty hardware + apple naziing the appstore was enuff :p	11:45
slonopotamus	Jaffa, do you accidentally know who likes gentoo in nokia? :)	11:45
slonopotamus	timeless, or you ^ :)	11:46
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:49
Jaffa	slonopotamus: Absolutely no idea.	11:49
slonopotamus	Jaffa, morning :)	11:49
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wazd	slonopotamus: got it? :)	11:50
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slonopotamus	wazd, yep o_O	11:51
wazd	slonopotamus: congrats :)	11:51
wazd	slonopotamus: and yeah, I hate you so much :D	11:51
slonopotamus	wazd, man, it wasn't my fault :) it's all them, snetworks.ru	11:52
wazd	yeah, and them too :D	11:52
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frals	if theres a bug in bugzilla, and it has been "reproduced internally", theres no need to comment ur affected by it right? just a vote is good enough? ;o	11:54
lbt_	lcuk: pint	11:56
lbt_	hmm, that typo'll get a better response than ping	11:56
frals	:D	11:57
Jaffa	frals: Correct.	11:57
mece	frals, I guess so. Bugzilla is not a good place to vent.	11:57
frals	righto, ty :)	11:57
Jaffa	frals: In fact, if you're not adding any info, just a "me too", voting is always better rather than cluttering up the comments.	11:57
frals	lbt_: in lcuks case "bacon" might work better? ;)	11:57
lbt_	frais OTOH if it's WORKSFORME then treat it like a chatroom.... as far as I can tell...	11:57
frals	aye thats what i figured.. judging by the bugzilla mailspam lately i wasnt so sure anymore :P	11:58
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PaulFertser	DocScrutinizer51: are you interested to try hostmode on n900?	12:04
ShadowJK	PaulFertser, do you have a plan?	12:04
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PaulFertser	ShadowJK: a little investigation plan, yes.	12:04
PaulFertser	ShadowJK: requires multimeter	12:05
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peterbrett	Hey folks	12:05
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peterbrett	Is anyone who works on telepathy-butterfly for Maemo 5 about?	12:05
PaulFertser	ShadowJK: and a reasonable cable you can attach to n900.	12:05
ShadowJK	I'm guessing you either don't have one or don't want to ruin yours :)	12:06
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: someone likes gentoo in nokia?	12:06
* timeless_mbp ponders		12:06
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timeless_mbp	i think i've heard one or two people mention that, but i can't recall whom	12:06
PaulFertser	ShadowJK: i do not have n900 or else i'd try for sure.	12:06
ShadowJK	what would you measure?	12:07
PaulFertser	ShadowJK: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-December/022855.html	12:07
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slonopotamus	timeless, scroll half an hour back (when i endered channel)	12:08
peterbrett	Basically, telepathy-butterfly has stopped managing to connect to MSN Messenger at all, ever, and I wonder whether anyone else has seen the problem	12:08
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RST38h	????, ??	12:08
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RST38h	In denying other aspects of the FOIA request, the Army stated 'disclosure of this information is likely to cause substantial harm to the Department of the Army's competitive position in the gaming industry.'	12:08
slonopotamus	wazd, http://slonopotamus.livejournal.com/118678.html (in russian)	12:09
RST38h	slonopotamus: what? really?	12:09
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slonopotamus	RST38h, absolutely really	12:10
RST38h	peterbrett: my icq connection no longer works too	12:10
RST38h	slonopotamus: well, nagrada nashla geroya.	12:11
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peterbrett	RST38h: The funny thing is that it was working fine, and now doesn't work even on Wifi (where phone company funny business shouldn't be an issue)	12:11
RST38h	(act #2, actually)	12:11
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peterbrett	Does anyone know how to find out who the maintainer of an extras-testing package is?	12:11
slonopotamus	RST38h, that's kinda surprising :)	12:12
RST38h	peterbrett: tried rebooting already?	12:12
RST38h	peterbrett: go to extras-testing list of apps and look it up?	12:12
RST38h	slonopotamus: time to do something useful with it though =)	12:12
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slonopotamus	err... how i switch language on n900? :D	12:13
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peterbrett	RST38h: Googling has failed to locate the extras-testing list of apps! Got a hint for me?	12:13
wazd	slonopotamus: damn)	12:13
* RST38h sighs		12:13
RST38h	peterbrett: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/	12:14
RST38h	wazd: They definitely DO NOT LIKE you =)	12:14
RST38h	It is getting pretty ridiculous really	12:14
peterbrett	Ah, thanks	12:14
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wazd	RST38h: yeah, I'm out of any explanations too :)	12:15
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* timeless_mbp decides red must be a finnish speaker		12:17
iDialekt	:(	12:17
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, from the chat or did you look at the hostname?	12:18
Myrtti	or perhaps the channel list	12:18
wazd	RST38h: that's not ridiculous, that's humiliating :)	12:18
timeless_mbp	list of channels he's (?) in	12:18
RST38h	wazd: entities that are not sentient cannot humiliate =)	12:18
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ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, aw	12:19
Myrtti	I win	12:19
pupnik_	that is the error of 'reification' - speaking as if abstract entities are actors in time.	12:19
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ShadowJK	I was scrolling up looking at what he said and not seeing any tell-tale finnish->english side-effects, feeling defeated I couldn't spot anything :-)	12:19
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ct529	hi! does anyone know when n900 will be released and on which network?	12:20
Myrtti	has been released.	12:20
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Myrtti	network would depend on what country do you want it to be on	12:20
ShadowJK	It does quad-band gsm and tri-band wcdma (900, 1700, 2100?)... should work on almost any network in the world, except if you're in japan or china (and some other places) where there are major networks that do not use gsm or wcdma on compatible frequencies	12:22
ShadowJK	US, Canada too	12:22
ruskie	according to your host you're UK based	12:22
ruskie	shouldn't it jsut work on all there?	12:22
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: i was kinda surprised myself	12:22
timeless_mbp	because i was about to offer enus1 to red but when i did /whois ... well	12:23
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ShadowJK	Someone asked to try my N900 the other day at work, and the first comment was "huh, why is it in english"	12:23
Myrtti	doh	12:24
timeless_mbp	heh	12:24
timeless_mbp	what were they expecting, chinese?	12:24
Myrtti	finnish ofc	12:24
ruskie	lol	12:24
Hukka	It was actually surprising that it came defaulting to English and Finnish keyboard.	12:24
frals	:D	12:24
Hukka	Don't mind though, that's what I wanted. But unusual for a phone	12:25
ShadowJK	I'd say "Hooray for sane defaults", but I fear for my life	12:25
timeless_mbp	heh	12:25
timeless_mbp	Hukka: so, in theory it's supposed to pick up settings from your sim	12:25
frals	btw, is that region detection in emailclient accurate for the rest of you? it suggest i should get a list of finnish service providers instead of swedish.. :P	12:25
timeless_mbp	but the keyboard behavior is kinda different	12:25
Hukka	timeless_mbp: Then it didn't, since my previous one was in Finnish	12:25
timeless_mbp	frals: is your sim finnish or swedish?	12:26
frals	swedish	12:26
timeless_mbp	(by that, i mean country, not language)	12:26
frals	ya	12:26
suihkulokki	Hukka: did you have sim in when booting first time?	12:26
Hukka	Hm, good question. I think I didn't, since my coworkers got their hands on it first	12:26
ShadowJK	I had $nativelanguage set on my Nokia E75. Each week I encountered some new dialog that took effort to decipher. The best way of decoding is to ignore what it says and consider what each word might have been originally.	12:26
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timeless_mbp	frals: that sounds like a bug, i'm pretty sure it'd be nice if you filed a bug and indicated your operator and some other bits (everything from the regional control panel, and all the env vars)	12:27
timeless_mbp	there's actually some output somewhere in dmesg or somewhere iirc that indicates what we know about the sim	12:27
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timeless_mbp	which is probably what's important (not certain)	12:27
frals	okey, ill do that	12:27
red	timeless_mbp: you decide correctly :P	12:27
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ct529	Myrtti: I am in UK ....	12:28
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: there's your linguistic evidence :)	12:28
timeless_mbp	(decide_d_)	12:28
ct529	Myrtti: I was interested in doing some development on it	12:28
timeless_mbp	(and not the stem a native speaker would have chosen)	12:28
ShadowJK	:)	12:28
Hukka	Talking about SIM import, would have been nice if N900 would have asked which way my contacs are written (familyname first or second...)	12:29
ct529	ruskie: yes, I am	12:29
timeless_mbp	red: anyway, the context for this is that enus1/engb1 have a label for the vibration which actually makes sense	12:29
ruskie	ct529, have you checked store.nokia.co.uk yet ? they are offering it iirc	12:29
timeless_mbp	Hukka: hrm	12:29
timeless_mbp	what did it actually do?	12:29
timeless_mbp	(and again, i think that'd be a nice bug to have, although it'll probably land as FiH instead of FiFsvc)	12:29
ct529	ruskie: nope .... they say to preorder it without giving any potential delivery date .... and it does not say if it is going to be offered on any network ....	12:30
Hukka	timeless_mbp: I had names written in style of "Surname Firstname" and it imported them all taking the surname as the first name and vice versa	12:30
red	timeless_mbp: yeah it was quite self-explanatory when I knew what I wanted to disable. I think I saw it the first time when going through configs, but didn't understand what it actually did :P	12:30
Myrtti	ct529: mobilefun.co.uk, nokiaretail.co.uk etc.	12:30
ShadowJK	timeless, does it also have a more descriptive string for "Power saving mode"?	12:30
Hukka	Which mixed the ordering majorly	12:30
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timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: um	12:30
timeless_mbp	good question	12:30
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ct529	Myrtti: ruskie: thanks	12:30
ct529	ruskie: Myrtti: is there a SDK for Maemo that can be used on Linux desktop?	12:31
Hukka	ct529: The only one...	12:31
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Myrtti	ct529: most certainly there is	12:31
ct529	Hukka: the only one?	12:31
ruskie	yeah	12:32
Hukka	ct529: There is SDK only for Linux. If you want to dev under Windows you need to run a virtualized Linux under it	12:32
red	peterbrett: I have butterfly going wacky on me aswell. If someone adds me in msn, I cannot start a convo with any online contact until I reboot	12:32
ruskie	the one sdk that is there is for GNU/Linux systems ;)	12:32
ct529	whops .... mobilephone.co.uk lists it at £400 realease in january .... ouch ....	12:32
red	I can reply once messaged thought	12:32
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: sadly, it appears that it does not	12:32
red	same problem if I roam with msn online, it gets jammed :P	12:32
* timeless_mbp goes to find the ui element		12:32
ct529	ruskie: Hukka: thanks, I had not understood what you meant ....	12:33
Myrtti	ct529: oo, cheap	12:33
timeless_mbp	oh right	12:33
* timeless_mbp takes this moment to beat Exchange Server with a brick		12:33
red	think I'll go ahead and change my phone language to english	12:33
ct529	we use kde/kontact on client side + egw with groupdav on server side, so it seems Maemo makes sense ....	12:33
red	most apps are that way already so no point sticking with Finglish	12:34
Hukka	I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually, but where is the desktop data saved? Which icons are there, at which locations and widget configurations?	12:34
timeless_mbp	it is going to send me an email every day, until i get my mailbox size under 90%, telling me my mailbox is almost full	12:34
Hukka	It doesn't seem to be a file anywhere, so my next guess is gconf	12:34
Myrtti	timeless_mbp: fail-o-rama	12:34
Hukka	I'd like to create shortcuts for xterm that immediately launch ssh	12:35
ShadowJK	ime the administrator eventually notices and deletes email for you	12:35
Myrtti	Hukka: http://www.matkapuhelininfo.com/keskustelu/showpost.php?p=1058184286&postcount=945 apparently has some info	12:36
Myrtti	:-<	12:36
Myrtti	I broke a nail AGAIN	12:36
Hukka	Myrtti: I was reading that thread too, but was only on page 11 :)	12:36
Myrtti	moar coffee	12:37
Hukka	It's huge...	12:37
suihkulokki	what we really want is a ssh ui which allows adding shortcuts to specific hosts on desktop	12:37
Stskeeps	suihkulokki++	12:37
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flux	hukka, it might be simpler to create an application for it (I _think_ it's just placing a description file into /usr/share/somewhere)	12:37
Hukka	Myrtti: But it seems that the poster has the same exact need as I :)	12:37
Hukka	flux: It seems like this is exactly what the linked post does	12:38
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timeless_mbp	suihkulokki: that shouldn't be too hard	12:41
anidel	hi there	12:41
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JoshTriplett1	andre__: ping?	12:42
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timeless_mbp	good morningish	12:43
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ShadowJK	yay, no work until wednesday	12:50
Stskeeps	snow?	12:50
Stskeeps	:P	12:50
ShadowJK	the "you can't carry over vacation days to the next year"-crunch	12:51
Hukka	Myrtti: Hmh, doesn't work, and hard to say why	12:51
Hukka	The option doesn't appear in the shortcut menu	12:51
ShadowJK	"but don't use them at christmas when everyone else also wants to"	12:51
andre__	JoshTriplett1, pong	12:51
Stskeeps	ah	12:51
ShadowJK	and .fi never stops for snow :)	12:51
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JoshTriplett1	andre__: 2 things. First, GeneralAntilles suggested I poke you about getting canconfirm/editbugs on the Maemo Bugzilla, so that I can help triage bugs and such.	12:52
* ShadowJK considers spending his free time on another go at wrangling mplayer-neon out of the sdk		12:52
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Hukka	nm, spellibg errors in config	12:56
andre__	JoshTriplett, sounds good. mom	12:56
JoshTriplett	andre__: Thanks!	12:56
andre__	JoshTriplett, seen http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad#Triaging ?	12:57
red	I always get a heartattack @ reboot seeing half empty desktops	12:58
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JoshTriplett	andre__: I have, yes. I don't necessarily plan to do so much triage that I need to automate the giving of stock answers, though. :) I mostly want to have the ability to triage a bug when I run into it and know it ought to get duped/brainstormed/product-changed.	12:58
lardman	morning all	12:58
andre__	JoshTriplett, ah, I see :)	12:58
andre__	JoshTriplett, very welcome and appreciated, thanks!	12:59
andre__	JoshTriplett, but what was the second thing? :)	13:00
JoshTriplett	andre__: Permission bits show up now, thanks.	13:00
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andre__	sure. thank you	13:01
JoshTriplett	andre__: I wondered if you might be the right person to ask regarding bug 6334. I have an N900 with the random reboot problems, and I wondered if I could do anything in particular to help the debugging efforts.	13:01
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6334 random reboots	13:01
JoshTriplett	I've posted the information requested in the bug already, but I'll gladly try any other debugging technique that might help.	13:01
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JoshTriplett	andre__: Thus far, it arrived today, and it has rebooted a few dozen times. That hasn't stopped me from loving everything else about it, but...	13:02
JoshTriplett	andre__: And about a dozen reboots ago it stopped booting, as in bug 6350; I had to reflash the rootfs to make it boot again.	13:03
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 random reboot bricks device	13:03
X-Fade	JoshTriplett: It is a weird bug as I have lost of weird stuff installed and my devices never reboot.	13:03
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X-Fade	s/lost/lots/	13:03
infobot	X-Fade meant: JoshTriplett: It is a weird bug as I have lots of weird stuff installed and my devices never reboot.	13:03
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JoshTriplett	Heh, I've never actually seen a bot that interpreted s///.	13:04
JoshTriplett	Nice.	13:04
JoshTriplett	X-Fade: Whereas my reboots started well before I installed anything.	13:04
X-Fade	JoshTriplett: Yeah, really weird.	13:04
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ct529	I think I will download the SDK .... has anyone tried to install it on other devices apart N900?	13:04
ct529	(unofficially)	13:04
Stskeeps	maemo itself?	13:05
JoshTriplett	The one thing I can't easily remember: whether I enabled Wifi before the first reboot occurred. I don't think I did, but I might have.	13:05
Stskeeps	~mer	13:05
Stskeeps	and the maemo-on-omap project	13:05
infobot	i heard mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer	13:05
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JoshTriplett	andre__: Feel free to just say "no, I can't help with that". But I figured that as debugging goes, it helps to interactively poke at things with a user who has the problem. Though, naturally, it doesn't seem to have rebooted itself in the last hour or so; reverse demo gods. :)	13:06
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X-Fade	JoshTriplett: Try things like flightmode, on/off charger, with sim, without sim?	13:07
red	i've misplaced my stylus again	13:07
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red	wonder how long until i will lose it haha	13:08
BernardV	JoshTriplett: My 2nd N900 also rebooted about every hour, but it couldn't be wifi because that was broken :)	13:08
JoshTriplett	BernardV: 2nd?	13:09
JoshTriplett	Dare I ask what happened to the first? ;)	13:09
JoshTriplett	X-Fade: Thus far, I've had it reboot both while idle and not touching it, while bringing it out of idle, and while actively using it. No particular userspace application causes it; in fact, I've had it happen while at the desktop and not running anything.	13:09
BernardV	Yeah I have my 3rd now in one week	13:09
BernardV	First had a broken mic	13:09
JoshTriplett	X-Fade: I haven't tried flightmode, or without a SIM.	13:09
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JoshTriplett	X-Fade: I have had it happen on and off the charger, IIRC.	13:09
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ct529	Stskeeps: it does not look like it is connected with running Maemo on other portable devices, but with running Freemantle on N8xx devices ...,	13:10
X-Fade	JoshTriplett: It is just to find out what can trigger it. Try as many different things ;)	13:10
ct529	Stskeeps: whatever Freematnle is	13:10
andre__	JoshTriplett, I also have no idea with that report. Nokia is investigating, but it's... difficult. I have never seen it myself either :-(	13:10
Stskeeps	ct529: Fremantle is Maemo5.0	13:10
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Stskeeps	ct529: and it's connected to other portable devices, but primary people are n8x0 users	13:10
BernardV	But the reboot..if I recall correctly I always had network connection when it happend (gprs)	13:10
Stskeeps	ct529: it runs on a Nintendo Wii..	13:10
Stskeeps	:P	13:10
andre__	JoshTriplett, but feel free to share your impressions (especially ehat cannot be the reasons, hehe) in that report...	13:10
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slonopotamus	argh	13:11
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slonopotamus	how i switch language on n900?	13:11
JoshTriplett	andre__: If this continues for the next couple of days, I'll probably have to exchange my device; I don't know if I can count on it as a primary phone if this continues. If I do have to return it, anything in particular I can do to make sure it ends up in a developer's hands? ;)	13:11
frals	menu -> settings -> regional and language ->	13:11
BernardV	slonopotamus: settings -> language & region	13:11
frals	language & region*	13:11
slonopotamus	no, i mean, during typing	13:11
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: text input	13:12
slonopotamus	it has 2 langs configured	13:12
timeless_mbp	enable a second language	13:12
ct529	Stskeeps: :D .... no very portable (cannot imagine going aorund with a WII in my pocket ) :D	13:12
JoshTriplett	andre__: Assuming it reproduces without a SIM card and without wifi, both of which which I can try to test at some point, then it ought to remain reproducible with the same device.	13:12
slonopotamus	enabled already	13:12
timeless_mbp	sym-at	13:12
andre__	JoshTriplett, none that I know... I know of at least one Nokian who also has such a broken device and already gave it to developers	13:12
timeless_mbp	err sym-space	13:12
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JoshTriplett	OK.	13:12
timeless_mbp	or ctrl-space, whatever	13:12
slonopotamus	omfg	13:12
timeless_mbp	top left button + space	13:12
JoshTriplett	andre__: And did it stay broken, or magically fix itself when a developer laid hands on it? ;)	13:12
andre__	JosefAssad, so, yeah, they investigate. however, of course there could be several reasons why this happens :-/	13:12
andre__	argh. JoshTriplett ^	13:12
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, and how i was supposed to figure that out?	13:12
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timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: there's a user guide	13:12
andre__	JoshTriplett, hehe, only thing I know is that they are working on it...	13:13
timeless_mbp	you should ask "how am i supposed to find the user guide"	13:13
ct529	Stskeeps: I thought more like porting to things like HTC Hero or netbooks	13:13
JoshTriplett	Yeah, bug 6334 has all the signs of a bug report with a sufficiently generic description to make everyone with a remotely similar problem chime in and confuse things.	13:13
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6334 random reboots	13:13
timeless_mbp	perhaps a more interesting question is: how does it decide which language to use	13:13
JoshTriplett	And it'll only get worse until fixed.	13:13
slonopotamus	meh :) i watched through quickstart video. it said 'that's all you need to know to use n900'	13:13
timeless_mbp	given that hardware keyboard languages and software keyboard languages are unrelated	13:13
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: yeah, um, remind me to shoot someone :(	13:14
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: there's a maemo5ui team section on youtube	13:14
timeless_mbp	you need to watch all the videos there	13:14
timeless_mbp	(seriously)	13:14
JoshTriplett	andre__: Oh, and I just remembered, it definitely happened while away from home today, which means it happened while not associated with any wifi network. So, that partly rules out wifi, though it could still happen that wifi AP scanning causes problems.	13:14
slonopotamus	timeless_mbp, i can't configure wifi because i need english input for password :D	13:15
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: well, you'll have to find the userguide on your own :(	13:15
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: do us a favor, call nokia care	13:15
timeless_mbp	and complain about these things	13:15
timeless_mbp	specifically this problem with wifi	13:15
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timeless_mbp	don't mention any knowledge	13:16
timeless_mbp	act like a normal end user	13:16
timeless_mbp	indicate that you watched the how to video that came with your device, etc	13:16
timeless_mbp	just like you did here, but to them	13:16
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JoshTriplett	andre__: Well, thanks for the update. I'll toss a bit more info into the bug. One question: have any of the analyses progressed far enough to figure out if this represents a hardware or software problem? Since it happens with some hardware devices and not others, that would seem to point at hardware...	13:18
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timeless_mbp	(cool, finnish banks are on strike	13:18
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Myrtti	timeless_mbp: remains to be seen are the hampsters that power the internet banking on strike too	13:20
timeless_mbp	it sounds like it's a possibility	13:20
timeless_mbp	great country you've got here	13:21
andre__	JoshTriplett, not that I know	13:21
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Myrtti	timeless_mbp: apart from the strike season things work pretty well in comparison to some other countries...	13:22
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lbt_	timeless_mbp: hmm in the last few weeks finnish pilots, ground crew and now bankers have been on strike.... is the skiing good atm or something?	13:26
timeless_mbp	no mountains	13:26
timeless_mbp	and no snow	13:26
timeless_mbp	ok, a dusting which was collected into an incredibly tiny hill at the bottom of kaampi	13:27
timeless_mbp	lbt_: it might be that they can't strike during christmas	13:27
timeless_mbp	and want attn	13:27
lbt_	iceskating?	13:28
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adeus	why would the strike during christmas	13:29
adeus	either they're on holiday or get triple salary	13:29
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Myrtti	have you heard the latest though	13:30
Myrtti	the union issued a warning of a strike on ICT sector	13:30
Myrtti	the planned schedule is apparently on 28th Dec - 2nd Jan 2010	13:31
Myrtti	I lol'd	13:31
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adeus	it's easy to strike when no ones around	13:32
ShadowJK	wait what, banks on strike?	13:32
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adeus	yes	13:32
VDVsx	jeremiah, ping	13:32
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aSIMULAtor	Erto?	13:32
adeus	that too	13:32
ShadowJK	I should maybe switch on TV more often than once every 3 years	13:32
ShadowJK	All banks? just some banks?	13:33
adeus	all	13:33
adeus	or was it just nordea	13:33
ShadowJK	huh. is it a one-day strike or are they striking until their demands are met or something	13:33
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aSIMULAtor	http://www.erto.fi/ajankohtaista/tietoalantyotaistelu/brieflyinenglish	13:33
VDVsx	bank accounts in Switzerland ftw :D	13:33
adeus	no, all	13:33
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* Stskeeps sure hopes nordea poland isn't		13:34
Myrtti	shdb: on Monday	13:34
Myrtti	gah	13:34
Myrtti	ShadowJK: on monday	13:34
adeus	only the brick stores are closed so it doesn't effect anything :P	13:34
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adeus	net bank and atms work	13:34
JoshTriplett	andre__: Silly question, because I don't know enough about the software architecture of how Maemo 5 boots: when a 32wd_to reboot occurs, does the kernel's printk time normally remain fixed over the reboot? Because I have uptime 5 minutes, but dmesg gives times like 14558.985382.	13:34
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andre__	JoshTriplett: no clue at all here	13:35
JoshTriplett	OK.	13:35
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ShadowJK	I remember the last time banks were on strike, was probably 80s... I think there was warning beforhand, and the expectations that it would take ages, because society seemed to convert to entirely cash-based for the duration.. Employers paid in cash etc :-)	13:35
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ruskie	lol	13:36
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ruskie	I'm hearing something similar happening here for banks on strike	13:36
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ShadowJK	TV and radio striked too, though I dont remember if it was at the same time as the banks, all you could get was this looping clip of a musicbox. On all tv channels, all radio channels. The tune still haunts me today..	13:37
ruskie	lol	13:37
ruskie	so many things to watch on the net nowadays	13:37
ruskie	I think if they really did go on strik it would be for the better actually(TV and radio)	13:37
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ShadowJK	yeah but this was before internets :)	13:38
ruskie	yeah I'm aware of that	13:38
ruskie	still books are alawys an alternative :)	13:38
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ShadowJK	let's just hope the librarians don't strike at the same time	13:38
ruskie	not a big loss ;)	13:38
ruskie	ebooks :)	13:39
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* ruskie spent 1000 eur on two gadgets this year...		13:39
ShadowJK	and there are VCRs these days too!.. and whatever came after those	13:39
ruskie	N900 and Hanlin Jinke V3 eink reader	13:39
glass_	betamaxes	13:39
arachnist	lets see...	13:39
arachnist	N900, thinkpad x300, openrd-client, sennheiser hd595.....	13:40
ShadowJK	Myrtti, so is it just monday?	13:40
arachnist	(and, ofcourse, a new desktop)	13:40
ruskie	arachnist, I only meant those two toghtere.. I had other purchases as well ;)	13:40
ruskie	new mb and phenom II X3 705e ;)	13:40
ruskie	actually two new systems this year	13:40
arachnist	ruskie: i only meant to say that i spend too much	13:40
ShadowJK	how's the openrd-client?	13:40
ruskie	one at the start and one now :)	13:40
ruskie	ahh	13:41
Markus23	nearly all shops ordered n900 but don't have it, unbelievable	13:41
Myrtti	ShadowJK: three days	13:41
arachnist	ShadowJK: nice as a router/torrent-box	13:41
ruskie	well money is for spending	13:41
ruskie	ow and of course two atom mini itx boards	13:41
ruskie	single and dual-core	13:41
ruskie	one for router the other for server	13:41
ruskie	omg... I did buy a lot this year	13:41
ruskie	though I don't think I went over 2k yet	13:41
arachnist	i'm sure i did	13:42
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arachnist	the desktop and new 22" for it would be quite close to 2k	13:42
* ShadowJK spent 7000 on car		13:43
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ruskie	rather sure I didn't... the atom stuff was ~250 eur, both systems 250 eur... 620 for the n900, 300 for the V3, 40 eur for the headphones hmm	13:43
ruskie	I think that's the lot	13:43
Myrtti	I spent the amount of money needed to buy a N900 to a mattress and a topper for it.	13:44
ruskie	hmm anyone have any clue how long the battery should last while listening to internet radio over 3g?	13:44
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ShadowJK	ruskie, if it does 3 hours i'd be impressed	13:45
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Lupu	Any tips as to where I can get libgles1-sgx-img-common to be able to try out Quake III Arena on the N900?	13:45
ruskie	maybe fremantle/sdk ?	13:45
Gadgetoid_mbp	I must have listened to internet radio over wifi for 2 hours yesterday, and the battery held out until the end of the day	13:45
* lbt_ waits for the internet pixies to go on strike		13:46
ruskie	lol	13:46
arachnist	hmmm	13:46
ruskie	if that happens the world grinds to a halt	13:46
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ruskie	need to start setting up personal N nodes to have connectivity even when everything else goes foobarf	13:46
* lbt_ offers the pixies a cookie		13:46
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Lupu	ruskie: By that do you mean I need to install the full SDK on the PC to get it? confused	13:49
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Hukka	Has there been any talk on what will be the multimedia framework when QT is the main toolkit?	13:50
ruskie	Lupu, add the sdk repo to the device and search there?	13:51
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ruskie	I do hope both QT and GTK will be around not just one or the other	13:51
arachnist	i wouldn't mind if gtk was dropped ;)	13:52
Lupu	ruskie: Ok, that makes significantly more sense. I didn't know of that repository, thanks.	13:52
arachnist	</troll>	13:52
SpeedEvil	Hukka: pulseaudios creators are doing a special multimedia QT stack.	13:52
VDVsx	oh my	13:52
ruskie	Lupu, hmm I don't actually see it and I have it	13:53
ruskie	erm I have the repo that is	13:53
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VDVsx	SpeedEvil, do you have links for that ? :)	13:53
zaheerm	SpeedEvil, you sure you mean pulseaudio's creators?	13:53
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ruskie	Lupu, do see: libgles1-sgx-img opengles-sgx-img-common	13:53
zaheerm	SpeedEvil, i was told the qt mobility people are doing it	13:53
Hukka	SpeedEvil: But PA is only audio, or are they planning something with video too?	13:53
ruskie	Lupu, and that's in the nokia-binaries repo	13:53
Hukka	SpeedEvil: More specifically I'm interested is gst going to stay or be changed	13:54
Lupu	ruskie: I already added the repo behind this link -- http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php	13:54
SpeedEvil	Sorry.	13:54
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Lupu	ruskie: Still no installation candidate.	13:54
SpeedEvil	I was attempting comedy.	13:54
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VDVsx	SpeedEvil, ehehe	13:55
SpeedEvil	Hukka: yeah - nebulous plans with 'it's all changing, and it'll be shiny!!!' aren't great.	13:55
ruskie	Lupu, so none of those two satisfy it: libgles1-sgx-img opengles-sgx-img-common	13:55
ruskie	?	13:55
VDVsx	if IIRC gstreamer will be used in m6	13:55
* VDVsx checks		13:55
VDVsx	yup :http://www.slideshare.net/qgil/maemo-harmattan-qt-and-more	13:55
Myrtti	I love the internets <2	13:55
Myrtti	♥ even	13:56
zaheerm	gstreamer will be used, yes	13:56
Myrtti	http://pastebin.com/m2334318 ♥ ♥ ♥	13:56
zaheerm	but they want to add a qt friendly wrapper for easy shit	13:56
Hukka	Hm	13:57
zaheerm	which is probably going to be a failure like phonon was, and get deprecated for m7	13:57
VDVsx	zaheerm, lol	13:57
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Hukka	Are the needed components to bring QT and gst together on M5 already here?	13:57
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zaheerm	Hukka, yes, gstreamer is a c library so can be used by any c++ app including qt apps	13:57
Hukka	If it's supported, might as well start developing against that, since it will be the new thing	13:57
VDVsx	zaheerm, phonon is still present in Qt 4.6	13:58
zaheerm	VDVsx, phonon is deprecated in 4.6	13:58
Hukka	zaheerm: Well, yes in principle, but there's doable and sensible	13:58
nomis	Mhm, I am stuck in the maps application.	13:58
VDVsx	zaheerm, humm, http://qt.nokia.com/doc/4.6/examples-multimedia.html	13:58
Hukka	And I have a vague feeling that gst and phonon people don't get along that well	13:58
Lupu	ruskie: libgles1-sgx-img: Depends: opengles-sgx-img-common (= 0.20090218.55.9+0m5) but 0.20091104.6+0m5 is to be installed	13:59
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Hukka	Wow, phonon going away? What happened, isn't it quite new anyway?	13:59
Hukka	(I don't really follow the desktop linux world...)	13:59
zaheerm	it is not going away, it'll be on life support	13:59
zaheerm	active stuff will be on the multimedia stuff in qtmobility	14:00
ruskie	Lupu, maybe will need to wait for an upgrade then	14:00
VDVsx	for reference new stuff is here: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/multimedia	14:00
Hukka	VDVsx, zaheerm: Do you have any hints on where to find discussion about the reasoning and plans?	14:01
VDVsx	Hukka, I think is there a Qt mobility list/forum	14:01
Lupu	ruskie: Alright, thanks.	14:02
VDVsx	Hukka, more info and some rants here:http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/09/03/multimedia/	14:02
zaheerm	Hukka, also phonon is basically just a playback api at present	14:02
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zaheerm	Hukka, and qtmobility's multimedia plans to handle capture and other non playback stuff	14:03
Hukka	zaheerm: Ok. I've just seen some news headers at Ars Technica or like that amount to "Wow, Phonon is so great and does your dishes too!"	14:03
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* RST38h moos diabolically		14:03
Hukka	And then promptly ignored them "Blah, kde... ion for me!" :)	14:03
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* VDVsx moos back		14:03
Hukka	But it seems that now that I have the N900 here, I can't avoid the desktop world anymore :)	14:04
* SpeedEvil samples RST38h for moobox.		14:04
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zaheerm	i guess we'll see wrt qtmobility's work whether it will be decent enough	14:04
* RST38h feeds Phonon architects to the Tentacled One, saying "serves you well, you megalomanicala motherfuckers"		14:04
VDVsx	did someone attended the Qt mobility presentation at the summit ?	14:04
RST38h	Heya VDVsx	14:04
zaheerm	Hukka, personally as a developer, i would just use gstreamer's api..that will work on m5, m6 and probably m7 too	14:04
ccooke	Morning, all	14:05
Hukka	zaheerm: Can't hurt to at least understand it, then. Thank you for the recommendation	14:05
zaheerm	VDVsx, i missed that, didn't know there was one	14:05
VDVsx	ah no slides	14:05
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peterbrett	I hope Maemo 6 has a Plasma-based desktop :	14:05
Hukka	Slides are evil anyway.	14:05
Hukka	I wish all conference talks were actually recorded, but no :/	14:06
VDVsx	I was in the 770 room in the bluez 'hacking' session	14:06
ShadowJK	plasma... that brought my quad core computer to its knees	14:06
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zaheerm	VDVsx, how easy is it to add profiles? is there any documentation on doing that?	14:06
VDVsx	zaheerm, maemo5 ?	14:06
zaheerm	VDVsx, i want badly to be able to expose call log and contacts to my car's bluetooth	14:06
zaheerm	VDVsx, yes maemo5...	14:07
peterbrett	ShadowJK: well, sucks to be you. :-P	14:07
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VDVsx	zaheerm, depends if it works under bluez-linux is not that difficult	14:07
slonopotamus	so. no xchat for fremantle?	14:07
VDVsx	ie bluez upstream	14:07
frals	its in -devel	14:07
lardman	Hukka: recording went wrong	14:07
ruskie	slonopotamus, it's in extras-devel	14:08
lbt_	Hukka: qt4.6 is on tech preview on N900 already	14:08
slonopotamus	frade, ruskie , thx	14:08
ShadowJK	(and don't try to change settings, it crashes)	14:08
Hukka	lardman: Ah. Well, they tried.	14:08
frals	judging by what ive seen from you earlier i assume you know it might be buggy... yaddayadda ;)	14:08
lbt_	oh, sorry I was scrollbacked	14:08
Hukka	lbt_: Yes, I had that impression though I wasn't that far yet. And I was planning on using that	14:08
SpeedEvil	Is there any application to take 'rawer' - ideally raw - but I'm unsure if he hardware can do that - pics/	14:08
SpeedEvil	full-sized pics	14:08
Hukka	Though that will also depend on pyside	14:08
Hukka	I'd prefer to use python for as much as I can	14:09
lbt_	Hukka: nod	14:09
* lbt_ is more c++ but that may change on n900		14:09
VDVsx	OT: does anyone knows a good FFT lib in C++ ? :)	14:09
ruskie	SpeedEvil, there's a topic on talk about that iirc... DSLR like controls I believe the topic is named	14:09
lbt_	VDVsx: by definition ... no	14:09
lbt_	use a C one with wrappers :)	14:09
lbt_	FFT is not OO :)	14:10
lardman	I've not got round to doing fftw, sorry	14:10
ruskie	hmm odd... I have a contact with a birthday... and when I first imported it I saw the birthday icon in the calendar now I don't.	14:10
lardman	is next on the list after LAPACK	14:10
lardman	VDVsx: what are you going to do with it?	14:10
VDVsx	lbt_, remember the name ?	14:10
VDVsx	lardman, it's for my thesis	14:11
lardman	ah ok	14:11
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slonopotamus	do i have to have SIM-card installed to import contacts?	14:11
lardman	well I hope to get fftw compiled and in extras-devel by the end of the week	14:11
VDVsx	lardman, cool :)	14:12
lbt_	yeah http://www.fftw.org/	14:12
VDVsx	thanks lardman and lbt :)	14:12
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hrw	slonopotamus: no, I merged contacts from s60 via BT without having sim in n900	14:13
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slonopotamus	for some reason n900 fails to get contacts from my nokia 3110c	14:13
lbt_	slonopotamus: me too	14:13
lbt_	PITA	14:14
slonopotamus	no syncml?!	14:14
lbt_	however I got them from 3110c to LDIF format	14:14
slonopotamus	how?	14:14
lbt_	but buggered if I can get them onto the N900 from a linux desktop	14:14
lbt_	gnokki	14:14
slonopotamus	k	14:14
* lbt_ is really annoyed at the lack of linux->n900 for contacts... but... ya know...		14:15
lbt_	I'm having a happy day so who cares :)	14:15
Hukka	I still have to figure how to get my SMSs out of the previous phone	14:15
Hukka	Does N900 import SMSs from the SIM?	14:15
lbt_	Hukka: nod gnokki	14:15
slonopotamus	meh, so pricey phone and doesn't support syncml...	14:15
lbt_	slonopotamus: I think it's the 3110 - others report success	14:16
Hukka	Or did my old phonw store them in phone memory (I hope it can transfer to SIM, ir it did...)	14:16
range	slonopotamus: It is supposed to do that, but only over USB and BT.	14:16
lbt_	it does do syncml .... but not over tcp	14:16
plr_	Hukka: don't know if it is possible to get them transferred to n900	14:16
Hukka	lbt_: Do you mean gnokii?	14:16
plr_	U haven't found a way	14:16
range	And it seems to have a bug somewhere.	14:16
lbt_	Hukka: yeah	14:16
slonopotamus	3110 happily syncs to zyb.com	14:16
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lbt_	I knew it had 2 somethings	14:16
range	So not all SyncML solutions find the n900 to be SyncML capable.	14:17
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slonopotamus	meh, these both are from nokia. that's a shame to be incompatible.	14:17
Hukka	lbt_: Hmm, I wonder... the old phone does have a usb connector, but the manual says it's only for repair service	14:18
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* lbt_ waits for sparks....		14:18
Hukka	It's 1650... Because my 3310 broke in September	14:18
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slonopotamus	do you also have '9' trailer video?	14:19
Stskeeps	yeah	14:19
slonopotamus	k	14:19
* timeless_mbp chuckles		14:20
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timeless_mbp	someone was asking what rule to follow for formatting a time	14:20
timeless_mbp	i said "steal the code from another app"	14:20
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timeless_mbp	http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=wdgt_va_12h_time_am	14:20
timeless_mbp	shows how others use it	14:20
timeless_mbp	I'd suggest stealing code from one of them ;)	14:20
timeless_mbp	http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/libhildonfm/hildon-fm/hildon-file-selection.c#2104	14:20
timeless_mbp	:)	14:20
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GeneralAntilles	Ugh, 10mW WiFi thread on Talk.	14:25
sejo	heh marbles is cool	14:25
GeneralAntilles	Troubleshooting voodoo.	14:25
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: I was wondering about that. autoreducing power till weget a certian fraction of retransmits.	14:26
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: but that's prolly not what's talked about	14:26
GeneralAntilles	The 10/100mW setting is regulatory only.	14:26
GeneralAntilles	It's not a powersaving setting.	14:26
SpeedEvil	It does not affect emitted power?	14:26
lardman	it must save power	14:26
hrw	stupid question: where I can change Call/SMS ringtone?	14:26
GeneralAntilles	The radio spends so little time in transmission that changing the power level wont affect battery life.	14:26
lardman	hrw: profile iirc	14:27
SpeedEvil	yes.	14:27
SpeedEvil	Unless you're transmitting a lot.	14:27
iDialekt	Hi GeneralAntilles	14:27
hrw	lardman: thx	14:27
lardman	hrw: in settings, profile	14:27
timeless_mbp	hrw: are you using en(us\|gb)?	14:27
GeneralAntilles	and, actually, since you're reducing your signal strength it can actually increase consumption if you're at the edge of range or having to do a lot of retransmission.	14:27
SpeedEvil	And in that case, you're probably going to be burning lots of power elsewhere	14:27
hrw	timeless_mbp: PL lang + EN/GB keyboard	14:27
timeless_mbp	it's in profiles, but if you use en(us\|gb)1 then this is more obvious :)	14:27
timeless_mbp	hrw: well, if you want to switch to enus1/engb1, let me know	14:27
* iDialekt walks away in shame		14:27
hrw	timeless_mbp: looks like I need to complain about UI again	14:28
SpeedEvil	yeah - a megabyte at 54mbps will take less power than a megabyte at 5	14:28
timeless_mbp	otherwise you get to appreciate finnish translated into english translated into polish	14:28
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lardman	timeless_mbp: you need to get optimising the Polish strings too! ;)	14:28
timeless_mbp	lardman: i need to finish polishing the english before i let people translate to other languages	14:28
lardman	:)	14:29
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hrw	lardman: old joke you remind me	14:30
ShadowJK	even when transmitting, 100mW is minor compared to total power use by the wifi	14:30
hrw	Polish guy meets English guy and says: I need to polish my English. then Eng one replies: No, your English is Polish enough.	14:30
hrw	timeless_mbp: the problem with profile settings is that it is hard to notice that there is something under vibration settings ;(	14:31
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: minor - but still non-zero. I could see it giving 2-3 mins more battery life in not uncommon scenarios.	14:31
timeless_mbp	hrw: there's a bug filed about that	14:31
timeless_mbp	the fix is to defenestrate the ui owner	14:31
timeless_mbp	or wait for konttori to become the new owner	14:32
timeless_mbp	which iiuc happens sometime next year	14:32
lardman	hrw: :)	14:32
hrw	timeless_mbp: bug number is? I wnt to vote for it	14:32
SpeedEvil	timeless: which window?	14:32
* hrw -> food		14:32
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, yeah sure :)	14:32
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: 8th floor, higher is better	14:32
timeless_mbp	hrw: but seriously, can i get you to try enus1?	14:32
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: but - 2-3 mins here, 2-3 mins there...	14:32
lardman	defenestration is so hard these days with all the toughened glass around the place	14:32
GeneralAntilles	The message beeps you get while on a call really suck.	14:32
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: and pretty soon the battery actually charges when you use it.	14:33
GeneralAntilles	I can never tell if it's call waiting, an SMS, email or IM.	14:33
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: the ones for new email are really fun	14:33
timeless_mbp	yeah, of course i'm getting mail ever Sync Interval during a business day	14:33
GeneralAntilles	I notice the vibra sometimes gets a bit angry, too.	14:33
SpeedEvil	lardman: http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-02.html	14:33
ShadowJK	This .fi computer magazine's "wifi battery life" test is so flawed. They tested shoutcast playback, timed it until it died (fair enough). Then they concluded that in real life when browsing the internet, the battery life would be less, because the screen would also be on... lol	14:33
lardman	SpeedEvil: is that the guy demonstrating the unbreakable windows?	14:34
SpeedEvil	yes	14:34
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: don't we stop playing music when we turn off the screen? :)	14:34
lardman	ouch	14:34
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, nope.	14:34
Gadgetoid_mbp	Wow, secret profile settings- yay!	14:34
* fnordianslip isn't using his n900 as a proper phone yet, waiting for 3 sim fix. /me wonders how many of the 300 have been using their n900 as their only phone on a daily basis		14:35
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, videos however stop when media player loses focus	14:35
Stskeeps	fnordianslip: i personally have	14:35
Gadgetoid_mbp	fnordianslip: I, too, am waiting for that fix- but my 3 sim is data only	14:35
tigert	ShadowJK: how is that flawed to assume that when browsing the device screen is on?	14:35
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melmoth	since yesterday, it s my main phone	14:36
fnordianslip	tnx	14:36
Hukka	fredrin: "of the 300"?	14:36
GeneralAntilles	fnordianslip, me, since September.	14:36
Hukka	I meant fnordianslip	14:36
GeneralAntilles	Although I'm not a 300 member.	14:36
Gadgetoid_mbp	tigert: it's flawed to test a property in one usage case, then just adjust the results arbitrarily to make that result fit another entirely different usage case	14:36
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RST38h	Nokia's New York and Chicago Flagship Stores Closing Too	14:36
tigert	Gadgetoid_mbp: ah right	14:36
fnordianslip	GeneralAntilles: I'll let you off	14:36
ShadowJK	tigert, when browsing, you've got like max 10 seconds of data transfer (or however long the twitter-generation user has patience to wait for a page to load), and then several seconds of no transfer at all. In the shoutcast case, the server is sending a stream at a constant rate, keeping the wifi and CPU awake unable to sleep	14:37
SpeedEvil	tigert: for example - idle cpu and wifi most of the time - browsing - + backlight - may be less consumption than active wifi, audio, and cpu	14:37
Hukka	I don't know what "300" is, except a movie, but I've used mu N900 as my only phone since Friday	14:37
tigert	Gadgetoid_mbp: "we tested our running speed by walking a mile. when running, it is assumed to be faster still!" :)	14:37
SpeedEvil	Hukka: one of hte 300ish that got free phones	14:37
Gadgetoid_mbp	tigert: Sounds about right	14:37
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, free device loans for a period of 6 months.	14:37
timeless_mbp	RST38h: closing?	14:38
Gadgetoid_mbp	but couldn't you make it a car analogy?	14:38
Hukka	SpeedEvil: Do I count, because mine was free; paid by company :?	14:38
fnordianslip	Hukka: I was thinking that the 300 have had them the longest although I've had mine for 2 weeks, so the 300 part of the question is getting pretty nugatory now	14:38
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: yes, ...	14:38
Stskeeps	fnordianslip: 3 sim issue was known very early though	14:38
* SpeedEvil is using his as his only phone.		14:38
SpeedEvil	I'm pondering dropping my landlines.	14:38
fnordianslip	Hukka: he 300 were loaners given out back in september	14:38
Gadgetoid_mbp	I want my N900 hardware/software transplanted into my N810s chassis	14:38
GeneralAntilles	fnordianslip, October.	14:38
Hukka	N900 is a lot better than the 1650 I had before, but that was just a backup phone anyway	14:38
fnordianslip	Stskeeps: yep. i know. just waiting	14:39
Stskeeps	fnordianslip: hopefully it should come this month	14:39
fnordianslip	GeneralAntilles: oh whatever :)	14:39
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Hukka	Even calling with that thing was annoying due to horrible sound quality	14:39
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: mail me both. I have duct tape and a hammer.	14:39
ShadowJK	fnordianslip, I switched to N900 as "carry with me" phone about 3 days after getting it... My old phone is now parked as modem for my LAN. Whether this counts as "only phone" or not I dunno :)	14:39
Hukka	Did have a flashlight, though	14:39
timeless_mbp	fnordianslip: i've been using my n900(s) as my primary phone for 4 weeks before AMS	14:39
timeless_mbp	including 3 weeks traveling through eastern europe	14:39
Gadgetoid_mbp	SpeedEvil: Err.... maybe not ;)	14:39
sejo	anyone knaws how to solve the marbes GChapter 1 level 4?	14:39
fnordianslip	timeless_mbp: good to know	14:39
sejo	stuck on it for days now grin	14:39
timeless_mbp	sejo: i solved them on my n800 ages ago	14:39
SpeedEvil	sejo: I suggest trying 'enigma'	14:40
* fnordianslip using vodafone dongle sim currently for data only		14:40
SpeedEvil	sejo: It has all the fun of marbles, with added 'you can't breath' functionality	14:40
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thomastp	X-Fade: amazing, just got a mail that erlang built successfully	14:40
sejo	SpeedEvil: true?	14:40
* sejo looks it up in the repo		14:40
X-Fade	thomastp: Yeah, although I needed to kill the ip test.	14:41
slonopotamus	woah. it works	14:41
*** slonopotamus is now known as slonopotamus_n90		14:41
X-Fade	thomastp: It was stuck for a whole day there ;)	14:41
thomastp	X-Fade: oh ? how did you kill it without breaking the build ?	14:41
SpeedEvil	sejo: it's not very similar - it's a memory/accuracy of control game.	14:41
X-Fade	thomastp: Somehow yes :)	14:41
SpeedEvil	sejo: it is addictive though.	14:41
sejo	Speed I'll test	14:41
thomastp	X-Fade: I'm curious, how did you do that ?	14:41
X-Fade	Just killed the ip test processes one by one.	14:41
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X-Fade	And then it continued.	14:42
sejo	timeless_mbp: you wouldn't remember how?	14:42
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slonopotamus	err... too long	14:42
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timeless_mbp	sejo: roughly	14:43
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melmoth	what is the correct repo to be able to apt-get source mail for exchange ?	14:44
melmoth	and what is the name of the package itself ?	14:44
timeless_mbp	sejo: yeah, i remember roughly how to solve it	14:44
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timeless_mbp	melmoth: MfE is part of nokia's packages	14:46
timeless_mbp	it's included in the device	14:46
lbt_	sejo ... yes	14:46
timeless_mbp	you don't "install" it	14:46
Stskeeps	melmoth: not a source package	14:47
melmoth	:-(	14:47
hrw	I moved from E66 to N900 yesterday	14:47
sejo	lbt_: can you give me a hint?	14:47
timeless_mbp	sejo: yeah, i'm about solved	14:47
hrw	timeless_mbp: I am not so English to notice difference between engb<>engb1 probably	14:47
melmoth	so, all we have to see how to play with the calendar is http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/calendar-backend/classCMulticalendar.html ?	14:47
sejo	cool timeless_mbp	14:48
timeless_mbp	it requires quite a bit of bouncing :)	14:48
lbt_	sejo... OK ... sec	14:48
melmoth	no example ? (apt-get source calendar-ui also fail)	14:48
hrw	melmoth: calendar.... ARGH	14:48
sejo	timeless_mbp: I cant seem to get them together	14:48
timeless_mbp	hrw: ideally the strings will just be easier for you to use	14:48
timeless_mbp	sejo: the trick is that you kinda need to sorta free one of them	14:48
timeless_mbp	which requires a visit	14:48
Stskeeps	melmoth: the UI things are usually not oss :P	14:48
hrw	timeless_mbp: I use Polish translation	14:48
hrw	speaking of calendar... time to report bugs against it	14:49
melmoth	grumble...may be i ll use gpe calendar then.	14:49
timeless_mbp	melmoth: mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/	14:49
lbt_	get the right gold ball out by putting another ball in there	14:49
timeless_mbp	has the open source stuff	14:49
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lbt_	sejo: ^^	14:49
timeless_mbp	lbt_: that's what i said :)	14:49
sejo	ok	14:49
sejo	trying tu put another one in there	14:49
* timeless_mbp gets explosions from solving		14:50
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* AndrewBlack added a huge warning to his Blog abou Maemo-devel/Maemo-testing due to several people asking him to		14:51
* sejo still trying to get another ball in there :p		14:52
timeless_mbp	sejo: asking for too many hints ruins it	14:54
timeless_mbp	try to play backward	14:54
timeless_mbp	figure out "where would a ball land if it did land in there"	14:54
timeless_mbp	"where would it come from if it landed in there"	14:55
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timeless_mbp	"how would i get a ball positioned there so it could land there"	14:55
timeless_mbp	after a while, you end up at your current state	14:55
timeless_mbp	or a reachable state	14:55
sejo	timeless_mbp: true, trying all options	14:55
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SpeedEvil	timeless: or madness	14:57
timeless_mbp	i think nintendo owns marble madness	14:58
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hrw	5139 5294 5477 5479 5540 5790 5954 5955 6051 6431 6521 6651	14:58
hrw	those bugs already got my vote... and I am just starting	14:59
hrw	argh	14:59
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timeless_mbp	hrw: did you not find the bug for the scroll indicator?	14:59
timeless_mbp	one copy was filed by me (probably in browser about bookmarks)	14:59
ShadowJK	most of them sound like nokia model numbers too	15:00
hrw	timeless_mbp: not yet. going though calendar now	15:00
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: have you seen the nokia store display picture?	15:00
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ShadowJK	timeless: nope	15:01
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lbt_	hrw ... I thought that was a marbles solution in code....	15:02
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hrw	~curse brainstorm	15:04
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, brainstorm !	15:04
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* timeless_mbp pokes ShadowJK		15:06
arachnist	~curse me	15:07
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, arachnist !	15:07
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ShadowJK	oops	15:08
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ShadowJK	oh, that's awsome :-)	15:09
jebba	I'm going thru calendar bugs to see if there is one like "alarm should show current time, not alarm time". If you happen to see one....	15:09
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needzhelp	Hi	15:10
needzhelp	can somebody tell me what stream formats work on the N900?	15:11
melmoth	heuu, en c++ si j ai un objet toto , instance d une classe klass qui defini une metode plop, je l appelle comment ? toto->plop() ? toto.plop() toto::plop() ?	15:11
melmoth	oups	15:11
sejo	tot.plop() ?	15:11
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jebba	ah, i see, an Alarm shows current time, but an event doesnt	15:11
melmoth	ni luck with tot.plop() :)	15:12
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zash	moo.plopp()	15:13
lardman	what does the :: syntax mean? A static object?	15:14
* lardman needs to dig out a C++ book		15:14
Stskeeps	andre__: wow, they fixed a sb-ism	15:14
* Stskeeps is impressed		15:14
anidel	hey lardman	15:14
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=403284 Ah, finally.	15:14
lardman	hi anidel	15:14
anidel	was trying Latitude as on the Google Latitude thread...	15:15
derf	lardman: :: is the scoping operator.	15:15
andre__	Stskeeps, looks like they have some time now	15:15
anidel	doesn't seem to get the position on mine.. weird..	15:15
lardman	derf: hmm, ok, need to read a book	15:15
lardman	anidel: really?	15:15
lardman	anidel: doesn't get your position?	15:15
anidel	lardman: I've installed maemo-geolocation	15:15
derf	class::member means lookup "member" from the given class.	15:15
lardman	derf: ah ok	15:15
anidel	lardman: and then started the browser using your link.. but it can't find automatically my location	15:15
derf	::something means lookup "something" from the global scope.	15:16
lardman	anidel: there's a test page for the geolocation stuff, might be worth checking it's returning something	15:16
anidel	will check that	15:16
timeless_mbp	anidel: afaiu latitude doesn't work	15:16
derf	There's also namespaces, which use the same syntax.	15:16
timeless_mbp	but i could be wrong	15:16
hrw	ok, wrote long part about beloved brainstorm and why I hate it. now time to write something maybe more positive	15:17
timeless_mbp	maps/facebook should work	15:17
timeless_mbp	hrw: you're positive it's useless? :)	15:17
anidel	timeless: according to Qole it does: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=419444&postcount=60	15:17
lardman	anidel: http://browserspy.dk/geolocation.php might work, not sure	15:17
timeless_mbp	anidel: wow	15:17
lardman	timeless_mbp: does for me	15:17
lardman	and for Jaffa	15:17
timeless_mbp	ok, so um	15:17
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* timeless_mbp goes to find the isntructions for installing mameo-location		15:18
hrw	timeless_mbp: no, next part of post will touch PIM	15:18
timeless_mbp	s/isn/ins/	15:18
lardman	and my wife can see where I am on her android phone, and vice versa	15:18
anidel	lardman that works.. weird	15:18
timeless_mbp	lardman: sounds like a bad deal :)	15:18
hrw	timeless_mbp: and can be not so positive anyway	15:18
lardman	lol	15:18
timeless_mbp	tethered husband	15:18
timeless_mbp	latitude, giving husbands less latitude	15:19
lardman	I can tell if she goes shopping! ;)	15:19
GeneralAntilles	Bleh, still no shipment notification from DDP.	15:19
lardman	well I can just shut down the browser, hers is built-in	15:19
GeneralAntilles	Which means it's going to show up after I've left town.	15:19
GeneralAntilles	Assuming it ships at all.	15:19
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: so. got time for a couple of strings?	15:20
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, sure.	15:20
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xorAxAx	fnordianslip: "3 sim fix"?	15:26
GeneralAntilles	andre__, ping?	15:26
andre__	GeneralAntilles, pong	15:26
fnordianslip	xorAxAx: there's a bug and topics on t.m.o. fixed in unreleased builds apparently	15:27
GeneralAntilles	andre__, where the hell do I put a bug about the touchscreen settings control panel?	15:27
xorAxAx	fnordianslip: ah, the company "3"	15:27
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: calibration?	15:27
fnordianslip	xorAxAx: yep	15:27
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, the power save setting for the touchscreen is completely useless	15:27
andre__	GeneralAntilles, but I have one report about the screen noise in there already!	15:27
GeneralAntilles	and I'd like to see it removed.	15:27
andre__	ah	15:28
arachnist	camkeyd++	15:28
GeneralAntilles	arachnist, indeed.	15:28
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andre__	GeneralAntilles, just drop it under Control Panel	15:28
GeneralAntilles	Now the proximity sensor needs to toggle fullscreen.	15:28
* fnordianslip wants to set up a company called " "		15:28
Stskeeps	fnordianslip: ; DROP TABLES?	15:29
zash	fnordianslip: like the ( ) party?	15:29
fnordianslip	Stskeeps: huh?	15:29
zash	that tried to steal all the blank votes	15:29
GeneralAntilles	Anybody got the original string for that setting handy?	15:29
Stskeeps	fnordianslip: http://xkcd.com/327/	15:29
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GeneralAntilles	Settings -> Touchscreen -> Whatever the last checkbox in that dialog is called.	15:30
fnordianslip	Stskeeps: nice	15:30
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slonopotamus_	hmm	15:31
slonopotamus_	i think i got a tricky trick to import contacts	15:31
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fnordianslip	an xkcd widget for n900 would be nice	15:32
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pupnik_	till- found the car-charging problem?! http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=416562&postcount=15	15:34
pupnik_	fnordianslip: do it	15:34
lardman	timeless_mbp: anidel tells me he had to reboot after installing the maemo-geolocation plugin to get Latitude to see it	15:34
GeneralAntilles	Anybody find that string for me? :)	15:34
timeless_mbp	not technically reboot	15:34
RST38h	latitude actually sees the geolocation plugin?!?	15:34
timeless_mbp	but probably kill browserd	15:34
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lardman	restart the browser stuff yeah	15:34
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RST38h	Will make Arkenio happy	15:35
hrw	timeless_mbp: do you have a bug for that UI problem? it is hard to find	15:35
RST38h	He likes to be followed =)	15:35
timeless_mbp	5750	15:36
hrw	gracias	15:36
timeless_mbp	search was: is:maemo indicator	15:36
lbt_	ROFL.... just saw the Samsung bada announcement : http://hothardware.com/News/Samsung-Enters-Smartphone-Wars-With-Interactive-OS/	15:36
lbt_	love the last comment ... superb :)	15:36
Jaffa	anidel: browserd needs to be restarting	15:37
Jaffa	s/ing/ed/	15:37
infobot	Jaffa meant: anidel: browserd needs to be restarted	15:37
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timeless_mbp	lbt_: the art is nice	15:37
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pupnik_	gpodder is pretty wonderful. would be cool if it could also scan a page that has no proper rss/xml	15:37
lbt_	timeless_mbp: meh... wallpaper and N800 style screen edges...	15:38
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timeless_mbp	lbt_: i mean the boat	15:38
lbt_	ahhh	15:38
anidel	jaffa: yeah I knew it could be that.. I waited after closing all the browser windows hoping for it to shut down..	15:39
anidel	jaffa: in the end I restarted the device :p	15:39
timeless_mbp	anidel: at one point closing all browser windows did restart browserd	15:40
anidel	Anyway it's like on the desktop, after installing a plugin you need to restart the browser	15:40
timeless_mbp	i need to figure out if we changed that	15:40
timeless_mbp	yep	15:40
anidel	timeless: may be I didn't wait enough	15:40
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timeless_mbp	nah	15:40
anidel	timeless_mbp: I expect it dies after a few secs?	15:40
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lbt_	Couldn't happen here: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/12/09/2215253/Malware-Found-Hidden-In-Screensaver-On-Gnome-Look	15:40
timeless_mbp	i can't remember	15:40
pupnik_	Can we see cellular signal strength anywhere on N900?	15:40
timeless_mbp	(i'd need to ask)	15:40
anidel	ok	15:40
arachnist	pupnik_: yes	15:41
pupnik_	where?	15:41
timeless_mbp	pupnik_: the bars above the number?	15:41
anidel	now we need to develop a nice desktop widget	15:41
GeneralAntilles	OK, somebody using English strings but without timeless's stringset installed. Open Settings -> Touchscreen and tell me the string on the last checkbox in the dialog.	15:41
arachnist	pupnik_: next to the battery level	15:41
hrw	~hail contacts for forgetting default view	15:41
anidel	showing your friends is already easy...	15:41
* infobot bows down to contacts for forgetting default view and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		15:41
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: "Touchscreen vibration" IIRC	15:41
lbt_	Jogglers have arrived!!	15:41
pupnik_	ah thank you - i get "cellular network not available" may be out of range in my house	15:41
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: dooubtful :)	15:42
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, scroll.	15:42
SpeedEvil	is there anything in repos that will let me set arbitrary v4l controls?	15:42
* andre__ wondering who's responsible for https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/maemo-examples/		15:42
lardman	anidel: need to dechiper the Google api and then the location information can be made available to whatever app wants it	15:42
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xorAxAx	how can i enable "desktop" widgets?	15:42
lbt_	andre__: why Mr Maemo of course	15:43
lardman	tap desktop, hit gear	15:43
lbt_	or the porn team...	15:43
andre__	lbt, got his phone number?	15:43
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* lbt_ grins at xxxx@maemo.org and wonder what goes on behind closed doors at Nokia....		15:44
timeless_mbp	lbt_: from memory 4xs in finland means something	15:44
X-Fade	lbt_: That is an Australian beer.	15:44
xorAxAx	lardman: and then?	15:44
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: tap the title	15:44
lardman	tap the menu	15:44
xorAxAx	and then?	15:44
xorAxAx	there is no "add widget"	15:44
* ShadowJK has no idea what it means		15:44
timeless_mbp	but really, if you're using an english, install my strings and then do this stuff	15:44
X-Fade	lbt_: http://www.xxxx.com.au/ :)	15:45
lardman	xorAxAx: is for me	15:45
slonopotamus	argh	15:45
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: i have "Add Widget"	15:45
SpeedEvil	lardman: thanks - I now have that google page on my desktop	15:45
* lbt_ analyses the neat packaging and concludes it's not from Nokia.... then ducks and runs		15:45
SpeedEvil	Woo.	15:45
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* SpeedEvil finds screen protector for n900 in post.		15:45
slonopotamus	it doesn't see my simcard	15:45
lbt_	SpeedEvil: ooh any good?	15:45
`wicked`	hi	15:45
Myrtti	OH FFS	15:45
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, brand?	15:45
timeless_mbp	X-Fade: even the ausies can spell ringtone correctly	15:46
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: i dont	15:46
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: ctrl-shift-p	15:46
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: in my scratchbox	15:46
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: ebay	15:46
timeless_mbp	oh	15:46
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: nop	15:46
timeless_mbp	you didn't say scratchbox	15:46
timeless_mbp	you probably don't have any installable widgets	15:46
timeless_mbp	or maybe the sdk sucks	15:46
ShadowJK	my durasec cleartec has gathered an incredible amount of scratches in just two weeks :)	15:46
* timeless_mbp shrugs		15:46
* lbt_ rather likes that example code... it even tests for the existence of executables rather than just crashing		15:46
xorAxAx	there is a widget shown already	15:46
`wicked`	i've a question..	15:46
xorAxAx	so its b0rked	15:47
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: delete the widget from the desktop	15:47
`wicked`	for the developers..	15:47
timeless_mbp	see if you can get it back	15:47
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190353399122&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT	15:47
GeneralAntilles	Screw it, posting the bug with the replacement strings. Somebody else can translate.	15:47
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: nope :-/	15:47
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: file a bug against the sdk	15:47
ShadowJK	oh, hard case	15:47
xorAxAx	fun.	15:47
`wicked`	a porting of maemo on a N97 nokia phone..	15:48
`wicked`	is not possible?	15:48
`wicked`	I hate symbian os..	15:48
nomis	I dunno, it might be just me, but sometimes I tap an icon in the main menu, the icon lights up and then nothing happens.	15:48
nomis	so the click arrived at the software, but the software failed to start the resp. menu entry.	15:49
* ccooke tries to stop laughing at http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM		15:49
arachnist	`wicked`: N97 has a somewhat different screen resolution. might be impossible to run normal maemo apps	15:49
timeless_mbp	`wicked`: so, if you can get access to enough pieces anything is possible	15:49
`wicked`	:\	15:49
hrw	arachnist: and lot of maemo apss are hrdcoded to 800x480 screen anyway	15:49
lardman	SpeedEvil: :)	15:49
hrw	n97 has 640x360	15:49
timeless_mbp	hypothetically there was one device similar to the n800 which was able to run maemo4.something	15:49
`wicked`	maemo apps are write for a 480x800 res?	15:49
* hrw just sstarted maemo5 on 800x800 screen		15:49
`wicked`	damn nokia -.-	15:50
hrw	too bad that maemosdk lacks some settings	15:50
timeless_mbp	(that one device normally ran symbian)	15:50
GeneralAntilles	`wicked`, 800x480, actually.	15:51
GeneralAntilles	But that's not the real problem.	15:51
GeneralAntilles	The real problem is getting Linux booting on the N97.	15:51
GeneralAntilles	and to that I can only say, "good luck".	15:51
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xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: which product is it?	15:52
`wicked`	tnx M)	15:52
`wicked`	;)	15:52
timeless_mbp	sdk has its own product iirc	15:52
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suihkulokki	`wicked`: not really specifically written for 800x480, just nobody ever tests anything else =)	15:53
sejo	/49	15:53
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jumpula	q	15:54
xorAxAx	how can i find out the sdk version? settings -> general doesnt exist	15:54
jumpula	oops	15:54
jumpula	this is not vim	15:54
`wicked`	nobody who can try it?	15:54
`wicked`	nobody wanna risk a n97? ;)	15:54
Myrtti	you	15:54
Myrtti	obviously	15:54
sejo	he doesn't dare	15:54
X-Fade	`wicked`: Different cpu, requires signed firmware. Good luck.	15:55
`wicked`	ok, white flag, i'm surrender	15:55
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mece	what packet do I need to compile vala?	15:56
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anidel	lardman: this link might help for Google Latitude, looks like someone already reverse engineered the protocol: http://forum.openhandsetdevelopers.com/google-maps-with-my-location-my-location-t19.html	15:57
GeneralAntilles	`wicked`, easier to just sell the N97 and buy an N900.	15:58
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lardman	anidel: looking	15:59
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anidel	don't register in order to get access to the link.. I did but the link is now dead	16:01
anidel	so don't even bother to register	16:01
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lardman	ok	16:01
`wicked`	:(	16:01
lardman	but ok, those urls look familiar from my tcpdump	16:02
`wicked`	I'm not ONassis ;)	16:02
mece	andiel, oh man, hate when that happens. I don't like to register to random stuff, but to register for nothing is really annyoing	16:02
`wicked`	goodbye ^_^	16:02
lardman	annoying having all the png and jpeg data sent in the same tcpdump, but c'est la vie ;)	16:02
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anidel	mece: happens	16:02
hrw	lardman: use wireshark + filtering?	16:03
lardman	yep	16:03
lardman	though all the data comes from the same server so hard to filter out the wrong packet types	16:03
lardman	or at least it was for me using it for the first time	16:04
hrw	http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/10/n900-second-day/	16:04
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hrw	hi mgedmin ssvb	16:04
mgedmin	hi	16:05
ssvb	hi hrw	16:05
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lardman	anidel: actually that code is not needed as we can use liblocation to get location info	16:06
anidel	lardman: isn't that code used to update the location?	16:06
lardman	though it does seems to send some data, which is good	16:06
anidel	lardman: ah no.. you're right	16:07
lardman	I think it's using Google to get lat/lon from cell data?	16:07
fnordianslip	i haven't found powertop yet for m5. if it does exist, can someone tell me where?	16:07
anidel	lardman: yeah I think so	16:07
cehteh	eeeks .. bada is a korean word and means fail :o)	16:09
fnordianslip	bada ... boom	16:09
SpeedEvil	fnordianslip: would be nice	16:10
cehteh	only a high level C++ API .. means everythnig has to be rewritten from scratch	16:10
timeless_mbp	hrw: are you going to vote for these bugs? :)	16:10
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timeless_mbp	(not that it helps an iota)	16:10
* fnordianslip imagines timeless_mbp sounding like Marvin from h2g2		16:11
arachnist	cehteh:	16:11
arachnist	uhm	16:11
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lardman	anidel: there's lots of cookies and other crap in the sniffed data, no clue is that's normal	16:11
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lardman	never having tried to analyse pct/ip/html data before	16:12
lardman	s/pct/tcp	16:12
cehteh	if it would be at least POSIXish	16:12
arachnist	cehteh: "bada" is a polish verb, and it means "to examine" or "to probe"	16:12
timeless_mbp	fnordianslip: heh, i don't sound like marvin	16:13
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fnordianslip	timeless_mbp: perhaps not, but i like to think you do :)	16:13
timeless_mbp	heh	16:13
timeless_mbp	the ui designers told me last night that my voice is distinctive	16:14
fnordianslip	timeless_mbp: so is marvin's	16:14
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lardman	any javascript gurus about?	16:14
lardman	the javascript code on that Google Latitude page seems to be build up of loads of little functions	16:15
lardman	each is defined and then used in the definition of another, ad infinitum (nearly)	16:15
lardman	is that a standard method of obfuscation?	16:15
lardman	should be easy enough to just unwind the function definitions to get the final functions really, so not sure why that would be done	16:16
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lardman	I guess looking at the javascript might be easier than trying to guess the api from the sniffed data	16:17
* timeless_mbp watches So long and thanks for all the fish		16:17
SpeedEvil	lardman: firebug	16:17
SpeedEvil	lardman: it's great	16:17
timeless_mbp	lardman: roughly latitude is probably a java app	16:17
timeless_mbp	compiled	16:17
timeless_mbp	most google apps are these days i believe	16:18
timeless_mbp	(gwt?)	16:18
lardman	any thoughts?	16:18
timeless_mbp	probably the thing to do is to take something (jsd? jstracer?) and have it record the actual used paths	16:18
timeless_mbp	with full variable refs	16:19
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lardman\|home	hmm, did anyone see my monologue, or has it vanished into the ether?	16:19
timeless_mbp	because what matters to you is roughly speaking the standard control flow, not the loaded code	16:19
range	lardman: Isn't that stuff of their standard javascript API which they made public a while ago?	16:19
lardman\|home	dunno	16:20
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lardman\|home	but I guess it must do the stuff the page does?	16:20
lardman\|home	so it must be possible to work out how it works from that code? or not?	16:20
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hrw	timeless_mbp: I will	16:20
timeless_mbp	hrw: it's worth noting that decisions shouldn't be made based on votes	16:21
hrw	timeless_mbp: will not help rather but I have a right to vote for them and for me they are bugs	16:21
hrw	timeless_mbp: I am aware of that	16:21
timeless_mbp	bugzilla is a self selecting non representative sample of our potential userbase	16:21
SpeedEvil	Clearly the right way is to call the users.	16:21
timeless_mbp	that said, our ui designers are not better at design choices	16:22
SpeedEvil	:)	16:22
timeless_mbp	standard response to pushback other than ignoring is to "make it a preference"	16:22
range	lardman: Okay, that code is strange.	16:22
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s		16:22
timeless_mbp	it took mozilla 5-7 years to learn that this is not the right answer	16:22
SpeedEvil	It's debatable.	16:23
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SpeedEvil	For example I want a preference not to ignore volume buttons in media player when screen blanks	16:23
SpeedEvil	which for some would be very annoying as those buttons will get pressed accidentally for some users	16:23
hrw	I want really working usb-storage	16:23
lardman\|home	SpeedEvil: we're going to replace media player as it doens't support subtitles	16:23
hrw	[63924.144952] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdg] Attached SCSI removable disk	16:24
hrw	[63924.146811] sd 10:0:0:1: [sdh] Attached SCSI removable disk	16:24
hrw	and thats all	16:24
timeless_mbp	hrw: sounds like a host problem?	16:24
SpeedEvil	hrw: It diddn't work for me either, when I plugged it into my printer.	16:24
range	lardman: No idea. It probably is something in the skynet-universe which is generating that code.	16:24
hrw	looks like I need to dig under desk again just to get it working	16:24
SpeedEvil	hrw: which supports usb mass storage	16:24
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: did you file a bug?	16:24
lardman\|home	range: I've no clue, but do you think that the code that uploads and interprets the downloaded data should be there somewhere?	16:24
hrw	timeless_mbp: roothub->hub->n900 and roothub->hub->hub->n900 works for charging but not quite for storage	16:25
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* hrw -> coffee		16:25
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hrw	bb in 20min	16:25
timeless_mbp	usb1 or usb2 hubs? :)	16:25
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SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: I have a list of niggles that I need to search to see if they're there, and then file	16:27
range	lardman\|home: Probably something from tha maps API? http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2009/05/build-on-top-of-your-public-latitude.html of any help?	16:27
fnordianslip	hmm. tracepath doesn't seem to work on my n900	16:29
lardman\|home	ah ok, that's how to fetch the location of another user	16:29
lardman\|home	or yourself	16:29
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lardman\|home	I'd thought it was just for yourself, but it does say "As an added bonus, both the JSON and KML feeds allow you to fetch the locations of multiple users — you only need to change the user parameter to use comma separated identifiers instead of a single one."	16:29
lardman\|home	so fine, we can grab our friends	16:30
lardman\|home	we still need to let Google know where we are	16:30
lardman\|home	(but at least that's less to do now)	16:30
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SpeedEvil	lardman: doesn't tcpdumping the stream when location is active show you anything?	16:30
lardman\|home	http://blag.tsukasa.net.au/2009/06/17/reversing-latitude/	16:31
lardman\|home	SpeedEvil: I only had a quick look	16:31
lardman\|home	SpeedEvil: But nothing overly obvious	16:31
lardman\|home	again, I've never really looked at low level TCP data, so was slow going	16:31
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SpeedEvil	yeah - or firebug would be more sane, as it can show responses too	16:32
SpeedEvil	or alternatively tcpick	16:32
SpeedEvil	- which reconstructs all tcp streams to a computer - or to a port or ... live to files	16:33
SpeedEvil	which is _very_ hadny	16:33
lardman\|home	sounds useful	16:33
SpeedEvil	tcpick_001942_10.0.0.8_92.123.154.40_http.serv.dat	16:33
SpeedEvil	tcpick_001943_10.0.0.8_92.123.154.40_http.clnt.dat	16:33
SpeedEvil	for example	16:33
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SpeedEvil	that's data sent by server and client for the same connection	16:34
SpeedEvil	oops	16:34
lardman\|home	ok, will have a look at that this evening	16:34
SpeedEvil	well - that's not the same connection - but you get the idea	16:34
lardman\|home	yep	16:34
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SpeedEvil	http://tcpick.sourceforge.net/	16:35
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lardman\|home	I was working at the same time, do didn't try Linux based apps	16:36
range	ethereal can also follow (and analyze) tcp streams if you want something to click :)	16:37
range	Um. Now called wireshark.	16:37
lardman\|home	yeah, that's what I was using	16:37
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lardman\|home	the JSON output received by that page doesn't have the field names like the Google page linked above does	16:39
lardman\|home	are they mandatory?	16:39
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joppu	Sexy? Y/N http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test.png	16:40
timeless_mbp	joppu: new theme?	16:40
lardman\|home	no	16:40
lardman\|home	don't like the two-tone buttons	16:40
zgold	joppu: the contrast is a bit too sharp for my taste	16:40
lardman\|home	gradiated would be better	16:40
timeless_mbp	joppu: feels like a glass theme	16:40
timeless_mbp	i'm not sure that's bad	16:41
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timeless_mbp	note that it has issues w/ running through letters	16:41
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timeless_mbp	it can cause readability issues	16:41
hrw	re	16:41
baho	I installed sshd. As usual I decided to remove it from autostart (from all the rcN.d paths). Eventhough it's not in any of the rcN.d paths - it still starts up on boot. Also when I run /etc/init.d/ssh stop - it won't stop... Am I missing something in maemo's startup script management? Any advice on how to do this?	16:41
hrw	timeless_mbp: usb2 of course	16:41
joppu	timeless_mbp: That's kinda the point, the glass :P	16:41
joppu	lardman\|home: As a single gradient?	16:42
timeless_mbp	baho: i think maemo uses upstart	16:42
timeless_mbp	not rc.d	16:42
slonopotamus	hehe	16:42
lardman\|home	joppu: yeah, rather than the sharp transition	16:42
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lardman\|home	joppu: but don;t ask me really :)	16:42
slonopotamus	fixed undetectable simcard with a piece of paper between holder and battery	16:42
baho	timeless_mbp: oh.... thanx... I'm pretty sure I've done this via rc.d in maemo4... Will look into upstart... time to do some reading.	16:42
timeless_mbp	baho: upstart came w/ fremantle	16:43
joppu	I heard a certain person complaining how dull the default Fremantle theme was so I thought I'd make a sharp one	16:43
odin_	anyone know of USB card reader: 058f:6362 Alcor Micro Corp. (if it support SDHC ?)	16:43
lardman\|home	joppu: go ahead, makes no odds to me anyway, as long as I can still see the buttons to click :)	16:43
timeless_mbp	joppu: i'd say go for it	16:44
joppu	Well, since it's and SVG, I can just adjust the templat gradient and it'll fix them all.	16:45
joppu	To lower the contrast, I mean.	16:45
joppu	But I'll see about it	16:45
slonopotamus	where does xchat go in fremantle if 'minimize to tray' is clicked?	16:46
slonopotamus	:)	16:46
AndrewBlack	joppu, what theme you guys talking about?	16:47
timeless_mbp	/dev/zero? :)	16:47
joppu	AndrewBlack: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test.png	16:47
timeless_mbp	slonopotamus: it could go to the status menu if it goes somewhere	16:47
slonopotamus	argh	16:48
ShadowJK	odin_: i have alcor...something... no sdhc	16:48
wazd	joppu: http://s40.radikal.ru/i088/0910/7b/29ae58867c8f.png	16:48
slonopotamus	how i autocompete nicknames with hw kb? :(	16:48
\|R	is it normal that me and my friends didn't get the converter in the n900 box? (2mm/3mm to microUSB for older nokia's charger?)	16:48
AndrewBlack	joppu, looks nice	16:49
wazd	joppu: http://i065.radikal.ru/0910/cf/cc07a96009f2.png	16:49
SpeedEvil	slonopotamus: with xchat?	16:49
ShadowJK	i saw a systray widget or something... i suspect it might cactch xchat when/if it tried to run to tray?	16:49
SpeedEvil	\|R: I diddn't either	16:49
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slonopotamus	speedevil yep	16:49
\|R	SpeedEvil: uhm okay, decided it was not worth it i guess	16:50
SpeedEvil	\|R: just cleaning cloth, headphones, n900, battery, puppy.	16:50
flux	is theere a bug open for wanting more hotkeys for maemo5?	16:50
\|R	SpeedEvil: and usb + chargers i guess? :)	16:50
\|R	otherwise the puppy is going to starve ;)	16:50
SpeedEvil	\|R: yeah	16:50
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joppu	wazd: It's kinda similar... but not that much in my opinion. Are you implying that I'm plagiarizing Marina?	16:50
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wazd	joppu: no, not at all	16:52
ShadowJK	odin_, oh mine has same USB ID too. Mine does not do SDHC.	16:52
wazd	joppu: at least you have the device to test :D	16:52
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odin_	ShadowJK, kernel: sd 5:0:0:0: [sdc] READ CAPACITY failed, kernel: sd 5:0:0:0: [sdc] Result: hostbyte=DID_NO_CONNECT driverbyte=DRIVER_OK,SUGGEST_OK, for a 4Gb card, but a little further for a 2Gb card: kernel: sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] 3932160 512-byte hardware sectors (2013 MB)	16:53
odin_	ShadowJK, thanks for confirming, guess I better get a new one	16:53
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ShadowJK	Mine kinda works for non-HC, on good days	16:54
ShadowJK	kernel constantly resets it too	16:54
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RST38h	qwerty12: here? =)	16:56
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* Jaffa grrraaarrgghs at #5130. Sodding UI specs breaking the user. Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise-men.		16:59
joppu	wazd: Actually, I don't. I had but it was a dud, sadly	17:00
hrw	bug 5130	17:00
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5130 Use of "yes/no" in JavaScript confirmation dialogues is confusing	17:00
odin_	yeah we need N900 advanced mode with tons of user-configuration features... everyone should just find a way to organised/present them all... the idea of cutting own options for all is plain silly	17:01
SpeedEvil	Jaffa: yes - completely breaking pages is not a good thing.	17:01
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eMHa	hello	17:03
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eMHa	is there a bootmanager on the n900 and how can i access it?	17:03
eMHa	it seems i've bricked my n900	17:03
eMHa	but i know what files i've changed	17:03
joppu	eMHa: How did you do it?	17:03
eMHa	and if i only had a shell i could revert	17:03
eMHa	well, i change .profile of user	17:04
odin_	eMHa, not really, there is something that call itself bootmanager but it not a real one, since its already loaded a kernel and simply changes some options and stuff (that is how I understand it anyway)	17:04
eMHa	and i think there's aloop now	17:04
eMHa	ok, the usb part is booting ok	17:04
flux	emha, so what does it prevent, you cannot use xterm?	17:04
eMHa	no grafical user interface	17:05
SpeedEvil	eMHa: can you ssh in?	17:05
flux	hm, funny if it uses .profile	17:05
eMHa	after the usb pboot part	17:05
eMHa	it doesn't boot any further	17:05
eMHa	no	17:05
eMHa	wireless seems not to come up	17:05
odin_	maybe N900 needs a single user mode, which will boot an xterm no matter what	17:05
timeless_mbp	odin_: maybe people need to not brick their devices	17:06
timeless_mbp	at a certain point these are end user devices	17:06
timeless_mbp	not hackables	17:06
timeless_mbp	if you aren't willing to reflash like an end user	17:06
timeless_mbp	then don't think like a hacker	17:06
eMHa	these are hackables ;-)	17:06
derf	eMHa: You're going to have to re-flash. Hope you made backups.	17:06
eMHa	hm	17:06
eMHa	i can take backups over usb	17:06
eMHa	so my data should be save	17:06
flux	timeless_mbp, it'd be great though that it would not be possible to brick (so that you need to send it to factory) it unless you use gainroot	17:06
timeless_mbp	the data you can backup over usb isn't lost by a normal flashing	17:07
timeless_mbp	flux: mucking around w/ dot files is pretty damn close to gainroot	17:07
flux	timeless_mbp, but, it's not gainroot :)	17:07
eMHa	so there isn't any relevant date	17:07
timeless_mbp	although i'm kinda shocked that .profile would cause anything remotely interesting to happen	17:07
hrw	andre__: can you add (as Bug Master) option to autoclose bugs by moving them to brainstorm area?	17:07
eMHa	but i hoped i can boot somethin like text mode shell :-)	17:07
derf	timeless_mbp: I'm not.	17:07
flux	I can do anything in my computer without breaking it, as long as I don't 'sudo'. of course, I need to know the root password.	17:08
derf	Actually, isn't .profile on /home/user anyway?	17:08
javispedro	Aloha Javier, welcome to NetHack! You are a neutral female human Tourist.	17:08
derf	So won't that survive a reflash?	17:08
timeless_mbp	derf: it will :)	17:08
andre__	hrw, ?	17:08
X-Fade	Unless you flash emmc ;)	17:08
eMHa	?	17:08
odin_	timeless_mbp, what a segment of the market appears to want is a hackable product, so Nokia will on-day have to shallow on that and live with it	17:08
timeless_mbp	X-Fade: better backup in that cas	17:08
X-Fade	timeless_mbp: Indeed	17:08
javispedro	RST38h: seems to work, so gonna upload now	17:08
odin_	s/on-day/one day/	17:09
infobot	odin_ meant: timeless_mbp, what a segment of the market appears to want is a hackable product, so Nokia will one day have to shallow on that and live with it	17:09
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timeless_mbp	odin_: how large is that market segment?	17:09
timeless_mbp	1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% ?	17:09
timeless_mbp	or smaller?	17:09
hrw	andre__: I am losing faith in maemo bugtracker as most of interesting bugs gets moved to brainstorm where no one cares about them	17:09
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timeless_mbp	what nokia wants (especially if it's producing lots of devices)	17:09
timeless_mbp	is a large market segment	17:09
odin_	timeless_mbp, it doesn't really matter, another vendor (not nokia will be producing the same basic design) and they will cater for hackability	17:10
andre__	hrw, so?	17:10
timeless_mbp	odin_: ...	17:10
Stskeeps	odin_: how did that work for freerunner sales again..	17:10
Stskeeps	:P	17:10
GeneralAntilles	odin_, interesting that you make this point when Maemo devices are among the most hackable on the market.	17:10
recalcati	I'm going to try maemo for ARM Linux inside emulator . Anybody can point me to the right direction?	17:10
GeneralAntilles	hrw, Quim got some commitments from Nokia managers to Brainstorm.	17:10
andre__	hrw: I might miss sense of humour today. All answered already. Enjoy.	17:10
hrw	recalcati: maemo4 can be run in qemu	17:10
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: really?	17:11
canc	timeless_mbp: if I follow what you said, the n900 is a end user product, an messing with it is bad	17:11
timeless_mbp	canc: i wouldn't go quite that far	17:11
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, apparently.	17:11
ShadowJK	odin_, dude you can't both have the cake and eat it, pick one. Hackability and the power to make your n900 reboot-loop, or safety of being locked out from doing anything damaging	17:11
timeless_mbp	but i would say that it's designed to be like an end user product	17:11
odin_	timeless_mbp, there isn't a lot of support that Nokia needs to give that segment, simple stuff like being able to extract flash data via bootloader/USB, single-user-mode, anything so the bricked device is recoveryable by the modern day hacker	17:11
canc	I did get one because of the maemo os	17:11
timeless_mbp	and if you mess it up, you reflash	17:11
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, it was one of the requirements before we started using the Brainstorm.	17:11
recalcati	hrw: not meamo5 ?	17:11
Stskeeps	odin_: the more info you give the open source community the more they want	17:11
Stskeeps	:P	17:11
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timeless_mbp	it isn't sold with a serial console	17:11
javispedro	odin_: i'm sure you can provide that by yourself, though	17:11
timeless_mbp	if you want a serial console, there's this other thing	17:11
eMHa	is it possible to flash the n900 from linux?	17:11
hrw	recalcati: n8x0 emulation is present in qemu - was done for Nokia by OpenedHand	17:11
timeless_mbp	what's the clear plastic box thing?	17:12
javispedro	unless you're talking about thrased ubifs	17:12
canc	timeless_mbp: ok, I get the point :) If you messed it, you flash it :)	17:12
GeneralAntilles	odin_, if you want to hack, hack.	17:12
recalcati	hrw: thx	17:12
odin_	GeneralAntilles, I was not making a comment about Nokia not being hackable (that was timeless_mbp, please re-read what I wrote) I am all for hackability but timeless_mbp expressed a viewpoint that its a consumer device and hackability it not a priority	17:12
hrw	recalcati: I blogged about it, had a talk about it on maemo summit 2008 even	17:12
GeneralAntilles	odin_, there's little stopping you.	17:12
hrw	recalcati: no idea how goes n900 emu - rather not exists probably	17:12
GeneralAntilles	odin_, of course it's not a priority.	17:12
Stskeeps	hrw: oh, didn't know it was a pay job :)	17:12
GeneralAntilles	odin_, hackability doesn't generally sell many devices.	17:12
recalcati	hrw: I read something, but I have too many info in my mind	17:12
derf	A proper hacker sets up rsync backups of the entire device.	17:12
* timeless_mbp frowns		17:12
hrw	recalcati: normal qemu do not have omap3 emulation	17:13
derf	Because they _know_ they're going to brick the device at some point.	17:13
hrw	Stskeeps: ;D	17:13
Stskeeps	hrw: i just assumed you were insane enough to do it in your free time ;)	17:13
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recalcati	hrw: I guess that Nokia should have qemu or similar for its SDK, becasue is really important for development	17:13
derf	It was one of the first things I did. I'm surprised it took me two days before I needed to use them.	17:13
hrw	recalcati: what for? you can use crapbox to run maemo/x86	17:14
timeless_mbp	! beagle board	17:14
hrw	Stskeeps: ;D	17:14
timeless_mbp	yes, that's the thing w/ a serial cable	17:14
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timeless_mbp	go buy one, or heck, buy two!	17:14
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timeless_mbp	recalcati: you clearly haven't used the sdk	17:15
timeless_mbp	because it does indeed include qemu	17:15
odin_	Stskeeps, I'm not sure I understand your points. Re: cake and eat it	17:15
timeless_mbp	and you can setup system qemu if you really want to	17:15
andre__	...anybody having a SDK handy who can quickly confirm https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6813 ?	17:15
povbot	Bug 6813: "Add widget" missing in SDK	17:15
Stskeeps	odin_: if you give out kernel then they want bootloader, then they want jtag..	17:15
javispedro	I'm pretty sure, it's there.	17:15
Stskeeps	odin_: etc	17:15
timeless_mbp	andre__: how about telling the reporter how to get the sdk version	17:15
* timeless_mbp has no idea how to do that		17:15
Stskeeps	odin_: the return of making the investment to get that info published isn't convincing	17:16
andre__	me neither	17:16
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odin_	eMHa, yes its possible to re-flash the N900 from windows and linux (it is not currently possible to recover rootfs/swap/kernel/etc.. data but the 32Gb eMMC storage remains intact after a reflash, since the root/swap/kernel etc.. are in another flash space	17:16
javispedro	I guess just doing "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" and ensuring no errors suffices	17:16
ShadowJK	if you crash often you'll end up corrupting the emmc and will have to flash that too :)	17:16
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eMHa	odin_: hm, but there's home of user	17:17
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odin_	Stskeeps, understood the ROI issue, this is why I say another player in the market will make that move, it doesn't happen to be Nokia, but hey, thats good for everyone right ? I mean a little competition in the ARM based Linux smart-computer-phone space	17:17
odin_	eMHa, home of user is on eMMC	17:18
eMHa	hm	17:18
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eMHa	and is not accessible via usb	17:18
javispedro	nope	17:18
eMHa	hm, litlle problem...	17:18
timeless_mbp	eMHa: backup the eMMC MyDocs volume via usb	17:19
recalcati	hrw: I don't find the crapbox link, anyway a qemu or similar as emulator is really important	17:19
eMHa	timeless_mbp: yeah, allready done	17:19
timeless_mbp	in theory someday Mer will boot from microSD for the n900	17:19
eMHa	ok, i will try in the hope i'm wrong what i've messed	17:19
timeless_mbp	and you could then just boot it and muck w/ the altroot home	17:19
eMHa	downloading flasher...	17:19
jkimball4	If I flash a device, does MyDocs get deleted?	17:19
odin_	eMHa, so you are saying your .profile on /home/user/.profile is broken and even if you reflash it wont fix it, cus that will only modify rootfs ?	17:19
timeless_mbp	dunno if it does yet	17:19
timeless_mbp	jkimball4: depends what you flash	17:19
timeless_mbp	normal flash is ubifs	17:19
eMHa	odin_: i think so	17:20
timeless_mbp	but you can flash eMMC which is ext3+vfat	17:20
eMHa	but perhaps i'm wrong	17:20
timeless_mbp	vfat=MyDocs	17:20
javispedro	andre__: latest version of SDK has "Add widget", and offers me to add the RSS widget	17:20
eMHa	only option i have i think	17:20
odin_	ah there we go then, you can flash the whole thing back to factory defaults, OneNAND and eMMC	17:20
timeless_mbp	eMHa: that's roughly correct	17:20
andre__	javispedro, thanks	17:20
jkimball4	timeless_mbp: does the nokia software updater let me choose?	17:20
timeless_mbp	jkimball4: NSU should never do eMMC afaiu	17:20
javispedro	andre__: since on the default SDK desktop the RSS widget is already on screen 1 (iirc), maybe he just doesn't have any more widgets to add	17:20
timeless_mbp	flasher3.5 lets you do whatever	17:20
eMHa	i've also saved my backup directory :-)	17:21
jkimball4	timeless_mbp: well my n900 randomly shuts off so i want to flash to see maybe that fixes it	17:21
odin_	bug 6720	17:21
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6720 Add the ability for Flasher and NOLO to download data	17:21
hrw	recalcati: s/crapbox/scratchbox/ and you will easier find it	17:21
timeless_mbp	jkimball4: i'd use flasher3.5	17:21
jkimball4	is the end result the same?	17:22
timeless_mbp	you're not an end user if you're trying to fix things	17:22
eMHa	some kind of serial console would be cool now ;-)	17:22
timeless_mbp	flasher3.5 can do exactly what NSU does (minus downloading the image automatically)	17:22
timeless_mbp	or it can do more, or it can do less	17:22
GeneralAntilles	johnx, ping?	17:23
recalcati	scratchbox . yes, I remember	17:23
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fnordianslip	andre__: i get the "add widgets" button too, as i've just used it	17:24
hrw	ok, time to reboot desktop just to test will n900 work as storage again....	17:24
andre__	fnordianslip, thanks	17:24
fnordianslip	andre__: ah, just read bug closed :)	17:24
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andre__	well, still: appreciated :)	17:24
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hrw	shit	17:27
lardman\|home	What's the issue with 3 SIM cards all about?	17:29
Stskeeps	bugfix coming in PR1.1	17:29
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lardman\|home	what is the problem?	17:30
Stskeeps	dunno, not a HW guy	17:30
Stskeeps	but it's an admitted one	17:30
lardman\|home	fair enough	17:30
hrw	bye	17:31
canc	I've got a question about mfe with google	17:32
lardman\|home	cu hrw	17:32
hrw	Stskeeps: in 2010.03-12?	17:32
hrw	;D	17:32
odin_	Stskeeps, so what is the word on the serial-console is there a hobby-kit version? (or other kernel diagnostic, for those wishing to fix kernels/kexec/bootloaders)	17:32
timeless_mbp	http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-begins-shipping/	17:32
*** hrw is now known as hrw\|gone		17:32
timeless_mbp	explains the problem fairly clearly	17:32
canc	each time I configure it, the connexion works all right, but it get stuck	17:32
timeless_mbp	There is a limited number of new Hutchison 3G SIM cards in some markets (UK, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Italy) that require a specific SIM ATK support from the mobile device. The Nokia N900 has not originally been designed to support this requirement.	17:32
Stskeeps	hrw\|gone: hopefuly before xmas, but i wouldn't personally mind it being later as my xmas would be ruined by packag eupdates	17:32
Stskeeps	:P	17:32
canc	and, it doesn't seem ti end all right	17:32
Stskeeps	odin_: see if the solution that worked for n810 works on n900	17:33
canc	is there a log file somewhere, so I can try to figure out what's going on ?	17:33
odin_	Stskeeps, its been said that host-mode-USB might be a compiled kernel / driver issue, have you looked into / thought about this angle ?	17:34
Stskeeps	odin_: not a kernel developer	17:34
timeless_mbp	odin_: so um	17:34
timeless_mbp	this stuff has been beaten to death	17:34
timeless_mbp	read the logs and mailing lists	17:34
timeless_mbp	don't abuse the living	17:34
redeeman	timeless_mbp: i wonder if my operator gives out new sim cards that are those nonworking ones	17:35
odin_	Stskeeps, well when my Fedora12 works on this PC I shall finally get SDK installed but its looking to be after holiday period	17:35
timeless_mbp	generally speaking though, nothing we've done in Maemo Devices has involved intentionally cripling hardware	17:35
timeless_mbp	either the hardware didn't work, or we didn't have time to get it right	17:35
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: yeah.. that's the discussion right now, if the pins were actually removed or not	17:35
timeless_mbp	well can they beat this dead horse outside?	17:35
peterbrett	timeless_mbp: How will it run faster if they don't beat it?	17:36
odin_	timeless_mbp, the talk item I read had no answers, which logs are you talking about ? its not been talked of on the mailing list in the time Ive been subscribed (which admittedly is not that long)	17:36
timeless_mbp	odin_: did you know that mailinglists have archives?	17:36
timeless_mbp	peterbrett: i didn't say not to beat it, just that i don't want them beating it here	17:37
odin_	timeless_mbp, no one is saying things are crippled (Re network Three) that just a corner case extra things that is being mopped up in next release, I think people would be fine with that (I know i would be)	17:37
lardman\|home	bbiab	17:37
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eMHa	is now flashing...	17:38
eMHa	are there other key combos like pressing u while turing on?	17:38
Stskeeps	hm, some claim ovi store up	17:39
timeless_mbp	coming soon according to my link from apps	17:39
range	How many apps? One?	17:39
Stskeeps	i hope for Bounce levels	17:39
timeless_mbp	odin_: err	17:39
lbt_	andre__: did you see the email addresses in: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/maemo-examples/example_camera.c	17:39
microlith	whee, N900 in the mail	17:39
timeless_mbp	it was never an advertised feature	17:40
timeless_mbp	mopping up something that wasn't advertised is totally misinterpretting how things work	17:40
timeless_mbp	if we claim "x will work"	17:40
lbt_	(we were looking at examples in a documentation discussion)	17:40
timeless_mbp	and <x> doesn't work	17:40
timeless_mbp	then it's roughly speaking our job to mop up x	17:40
lbt_	Bounce levels?	17:40
timeless_mbp	if we never claim "x will work"	17:40
eMHa	puh, it booted...	17:40
recalcati	Anybody knows why I have this pb installing beta2? E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable.	17:40
timeless_mbp	then there's nothing for us to mop up when x doesn't work	17:40
* lbt_ wants a Bounce level creator		17:40
Stskeeps	lbt_: yeah, additional levels for Bounce	17:40
Stskeeps	:P	17:40
lbt_	hmm, where's the texture for the apples.... Mer logo....	17:41
eMHa	half of my settings are there !?	17:41
andre__	lbt, haha, no. thanks :-)	17:41
timeless_mbp	nokia might do lots of things wrong, but this isn't one of them	17:41
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timeless_mbp	eMHa: so...	17:41
timeless_mbp	roughly speaking if reflashing only ubifs fixed it	17:41
timeless_mbp	then your change to .profile was not really how you ruined your device	17:41
GAN900	Jose-Luiz Martinez said it would be up soon.	17:42
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timeless_mbp	GAN900: is that like the store guy who claimed they'd fix the display case?	17:42
lbt_	andre__: I was right about the non-Nokia though <evil grin>	17:42
eMHa	timeless_mbp: so i check if it wasn't my .profile	17:42
timeless_mbp	time for me to organize my field trip	17:42
timeless_mbp	eMHa: and if it wasn't, you apologize :)	17:42
timeless_mbp	we get beaten up badly enough here	17:42
timeless_mbp	we don't need our sores to go untended	17:42
timeless_mbp	if you want to complain to Nokia Care and curse them, that's fine	17:43
eMHa	yes,i apologize	17:43
GAN900	timeless_mbp, dunno, Nseries VP may be more enabled, however.	17:43
timeless_mbp	they're paid to take your complaints	17:43
xorAxAx	hmm, doesnt xournal work in xephyr?	17:43
xorAxAx	i cant paint	17:43
timeless_mbp	eMHa: =)	17:43
eMHa	sorry	17:43
timeless_mbp	sorry you needed to reflash	17:43
eMHa	so it must be something else i've messed up...	17:43
timeless_mbp	i'd suggest you create a backup regularly :)	17:43
eMHa	yeah, only have this n900 since 04.12.	17:44
eMHa	and yesterday i first installed rsync for backups	17:44
eMHa	but hadn't set it up yet	17:44
timeless_mbp	note that you don't want one backup, you want some series system ;-)	17:44
eMHa	i don't understand series system?	17:45
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timeless_mbp	dunno, incremental, daily	17:45
eMHa	i've put the n900 into my server management	17:45
timeless_mbp	not just rsync x fixed-remote-path	17:45
eMHa	nono	17:45
eMHa	i've complete backup scripts	17:46
timeless_mbp	good :)	17:46
eMHa	for my other servers	17:46
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Stskeeps	oh	17:46
eMHa	i can tell backup from server x to server y with rsync these dirs	17:46
Stskeeps	http://store.ovi.mobi	17:46
eMHa	and make hardlink copies	17:46
eMHa	x	17:46
eMHa	and so on	17:46
* timeless_mbp gets solitaire from store.ovi.movi		17:47
timeless_mbp	EEP!	17:47
timeless_mbp	it wants me to have a nokia account	17:47
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timeless_mbp	cool	17:47
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timeless_mbp	store.ovi.mobi works in portrait mode :)	17:47
timeless_mbp	can i borrow someone's ovi store account? :)	17:47
flux	it's opened for n900?	17:47
timeless_mbp	flux: Stskeeps 's url works in my browser	17:47
eMHa	wow	17:47
flux	nice	17:47
eMHa	they are /fast/ ;-)	17:48
timeless_mbp	there are ~5 free things	17:48
* Stskeeps is checking is there's anything remotely usable		17:48
timeless_mbp	but... i'm not signing up	17:48
flux	:)	17:48
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: grab solitaire for me	17:48
eMHa	hm	17:48
lbt_	"Ovi Store is currently not available for your device."	17:48
eMHa	i think my whole settings are there after reflashing!?	17:48
timeless_mbp	lbt_: you visited http://store.ovi.mobi from the browser	17:48
eMHa	only installed apps are missing	17:48
lbt_	my desktop's not that heavy	17:48
timeless_mbp	eMHa: roughly	17:48
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timeless_mbp	settings live in ~	17:48
timeless_mbp	(mostly, minus wifi and a few others)	17:48
timeless_mbp	~ is on eMMC in ext3	17:49
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timeless_mbp	wifi and gconf and apps live in / which is ubifs	17:49
eMHa	yeah, wifi is lost	17:49
timeless_mbp	which is what you reflashed	17:49
eMHa	u r right	17:49
lbt_	wow ... the porn is at #3 already	17:49
Stskeeps	ebook apps..	17:49
Stskeeps	:P	17:49
timeless_mbp	ooh bounce is on page 2	17:49
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timeless_mbp	w/ a dozen other games	17:49
timeless_mbp	ok, someone ... please share your ovi account	17:49
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lbt_	"pee monkey toilet trainer"	17:50
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lbt_	OMG	17:50
eMHa	ok, my server ssh keys are lost	17:50
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eMHa	but i've the same in my chroot on microSD	17:50
Stskeeps	Level Touch isn't a bad idea	17:50
derf	timeless_mbp: http://www.bugmenot.com/view/store.ovi.mobi	17:50
timeless_mbp	derf: yeah	17:50
timeless_mbp	already there	17:50
timeless_mbp	:)	17:51
timeless_mbp	derf: isn't working? :(	17:52
derf	Hey, you get what you pay for.	17:52
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eMHa	ok, next time i will take more care when messing with my new n900	17:53
eMHa	ssh is back :-D	17:53
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timeless_mbp	derf: =(	17:54
* timeless_mbp frowns		17:54
timeless_mbp	i think we have test accounts somewhere	17:54
VDVsx	humm, ovi already open for maemo ? o_0	17:54
javispedro	hey, someone copied someone's "resistor" app in ovi store ;)	17:54
redeeman	resistor app?	17:55
javispedro	well, they're on the right track to pursue the iphone. No app felt useful to me :)	17:55
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javispedro	redeeman: resistor colors table app	17:56
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redeeman	ah	17:56
javispedro	*color code	17:56
redeeman	when i go to the store it just says "coming soon"	17:57
timeless_mbp	redeeman: http://store.ovi.mobi	17:57
timeless_mbp	don't use the thing in the app launcher	17:58
redeeman	isn't that weird?	17:58
Stskeeps	not really	17:58
javispedro	and the .mobi one looks pretty... featurephoneish	17:58
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* VDVsx is disappointed no fart app so far :(		17:59
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javispedro	I feel like If I were browsing through java apps	17:59
Myrtti	VDVsx: no bbq app either yet	17:59
TweaK	yay receiving my n900 tomorrow :>	17:59
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*** Guest15777 is now known as SinofEnvy		17:59
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VDVsx	Myrtti, :)	18:00
javispedro	so did anyone try to download any app already? is there an ovi repo?	18:00
timeless_mbp	redeeman: most likely it's in beta	18:00
timeless_mbp	when they're ready, the main link will work	18:00
microlith	SinofEnvy: where'd you order from?	18:01
joppu	Contrast lowered due to public demand: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test2.png	18:01
redeeman	javispedro: who made the original resistor app?	18:01
joppu	If anyone wants th installation file for testing, just ask.	18:01
SinofEnvy	microlith, uh... a Dutch site. smartphoneshop.nl. They had them in stock for like a day, so I cancelled my order at this other shop and ordered it from there	18:01
SinofEnvy	and they sent it today	18:01
javispedro	redeeman: I don't remember, was on tmo	18:01
microlith	SinofEnvy: nice timing :)	18:01
SinofEnvy	tell me about it	18:01
SinofEnvy	I can't wait	18:02
microlith	mine will be arriving from newegg here tomorrow	18:02
range	Oh, there's music on there ...	18:02
timeless_mbp	joppu: hit me	18:02
SinofEnvy	nice, was/is there a supply shortage in the US as well?	18:02
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microlith	SinofEnvy: only through non-nokia retailers it seems	18:02
SinofEnvy	I know in the Netherlands and UK at least they're pretty much unavailable for now (until next batch)	18:02
microlith	newegg just got a shipment in it seems	18:03
SinofEnvy	even from Nokia Europe	18:03
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microlith	ok, time for me to get to work	18:03
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joppu	timeless_mbp: uhm?	18:04
timeless_mbp	joppu: your .install file or whatever	18:04
* VDVsx downloads a trailer		18:04
joppu	timeless_mbp: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/maemo/glossy_all.deb	18:04
joppu	:)	18:04
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javispedro	I am going to kill every one on tmo	18:05
VDVsx	javispedro, wait a second,I'm there right now	18:05
joppu	timeless_mbp: just a reminder, there is probably a nasty bug in the SMS view, but that's something I can't do anything about	18:05
* timeless_mbp crosses fingers		18:06
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SinofEnvy	to thhose with N900s, can I have one (or both) of the camera flashes on when recording a vid?	18:06
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timeless_mbp	joppu: eventually your theme preview needs work :)	18:07
*** ab is now known as ab[out]		18:07
timeless_mbp	joppu: i don't think the blue drop down arrows by menus fits with your gray-glass theme	18:07
ab[out]	SinofEnvy, not with stock camera application	18:08
xorAxAx	javispedro: regarding the add widget bug ... you think that my sdk is too old?	18:08
recalcati	I don't understand which is the correct starting point for having maemo5 sdk installed on my pc	18:08
VDVsx	timeless_mbp, there's a Ovi catalog	18:08
timeless_mbp	VDVsx: urlme?	18:08
javispedro	xorAxAx: either your SDK is too old, you don't have nokia-binaries, or you already have the RSS widget	18:08
recalcati	now I'm running http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html	18:08
xorAxAx	javispedro: probably, i do, no	18:08
VDVsx	timeless_mbp, 1 sec	18:08
VDVsx	updating now	18:08
xorAxAx	javispedro: i downloaded it last week	18:09
timeless_mbp	joppu: the rest of your theme uses a darker bluish purple	18:09
timeless_mbp	if you made the drop arrow use that, it might be better	18:09
timeless_mbp	joppu: also, can you open 'profiles' in settings?	18:09
jebba	recalcati: how do you like SDK+ (scratchbox2) versus the "standard" SDK?	18:09
javispedro	xorAxAx: what does apt-cache policy osso-rss-feed-reader-applet show on "Installed:"?	18:09
SinofEnvy	ab[out], okay, thanks.	18:09
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GAN900	OK, I have YET to see a SINGLE Ovi review in English on either the S60 or Maemo stores. . . .	18:10
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xorAxAx	javispedro: Installed: 1.6.41-2+0m5	18:10
VDVsx	timeless_mbp, https://dowloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ovi/	18:11
VDVsx	timeless_mbp, dist: ./	18:11
joppu	timeless_mbp: the arrow need to be hacked seperately, I don't have profiles in the SDK settings	18:11
javispedro	xorAxAx: your issue is that Add widget is missing or that the entire menu is missing?	18:11
recalcati	jebba: installing beta2 I had that pb: E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable.	18:11
VDVsx	timeless_mbp, comp field is empty	18:11
timeless_mbp	joppu: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/Screenshot-20091210-181035.png	18:11
timeless_mbp	VDVsx: thanks	18:11
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timeless_mbp	joppu: the icons for available in HAM are unfortunate	18:12
xorAxAx	javispedro: both ... now i found the rss widget (i also have another one). now i restarted xephyr, removed the rss one and i get a menu and the button	18:12
recalcati	http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk/ is right?	18:12
Elerion	hi	18:12
xorAxAx	javispedro: before, i didnt get the button even though only one widget was active	18:12
javispedro	two widgets?	18:12
javispedro	the sdk only comes with one widget -- the rss one.	18:12
xorAxAx	i have gpe calendar installed	18:13
xorAxAx	which is /now/ showing up	18:13
timeless_mbp	hey has anyone made a "Share with scp" plugin?	18:13
* timeless_mbp really really wants one		18:13
xorAxAx	but wasnt before	18:13
javispedro	so the issue is that the sdk is not refreshing the list of widgets	18:13
timeless_mbp	joppu: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/Screenshot-20091210-181226.png	18:13
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* mgedmin wants subversion or git or bzr for fremantle		18:13
xorAxAx	javispedro: yes	18:14
lbt_	apt-get	18:14
lbt_	mgedmin: apt-get	18:14
mgedmin	tried, they're not in extras-devel	18:14
anidel	timeless: that would be nice.. share via scp.. but I also miss a share via picasaweb	18:14
Elerion	How to compile a C source on n900? I tried to get gcc cpp binutils etc, but i can't.	18:14
lbt_	git is in extras-<mumble>	18:14
lbt_	you sure?	18:14
timeless_mbp	Elerion: you need tools or sdk or something	18:14
mgedmin	maybe the package was renamed to 'git'?	18:14
timeless_mbp	it's not in a default repo	18:15
mgedmin	I tried git-core, which is how it's called in Debian/Ubuntu	18:15
lbt_	mgedmin: way too sane :)	18:15
timeless_mbp	joppu: progress boxes are unreadable	18:15
mgedmin	apparently there was a prior project nobody ever heard about (GNU Interactive Tools) that claimed the short package name	18:15
lbt_	mgedmin: "I was there"	18:15
lbt_	however "FIXEDINSQUEEZE"	18:16
lbt_	IIRC	18:16
mgedmin	woohoo!	18:16
javispedro	RST38h: vultures got throught the autobuilder	18:16
timeless_mbp	joppu: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/Screenshot-20091210-181513.png	18:16
joppu	timeless_mbp: let's handle this in query	18:16
* mgedmin is dreading the upcoming data transfer from loaner N900 to DDP N900		18:16
Elerion	Timeless: I'm sure there must be a way to compile the source on a device.	18:16
timeless_mbp	joppu: ok	18:16
timeless_mbp	Elerion: sure	18:16
timeless_mbp	if you install the repos that have dev stuff	18:16
lbt_	mgedmin: the Debian packagers came onto the git-dev mailing list.... we weren't polite to him	18:16
timeless_mbp	you can install the apps which let you compile stuff	18:16
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timeless_mbp	if you don't install the repos or the tools, then no	18:17
timeless_mbp	99.99% of users don't build stuff on device	18:17
mgedmin	lbt_, url to archives?	18:17
anidel	http://store.ovi.mobi with free apps?	18:17
timeless_mbp	so it's a very large waste of valuable rootfs	18:17
lbt_	Inbox.Linux.git	18:17
VDVsx	anidel, yes	18:17
mgedmin	old thread/recent thread?	18:17
anidel	cool	18:17
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lbt_	very very old	18:17
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mgedmin	ah, okay	18:17
GAN900	Can't install any of them	18:18
Elerion	Timeless: I'd like to try anyway. What's the repos?	18:18
timeless_mbp	...	18:18
timeless_mbp	i didn't say it wasn't possible	18:18
timeless_mbp	i said you need to add the pieces	18:18
* timeless_mbp gives up		18:19
mgedmin	nope, W: Unable to locate package git	18:19
GAN900	h-a-m chugs along for a couple of minutes then reports package not found.	18:19
* mgedmin :(		18:19
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timeless_mbp	GAN900: i get Checking for upd\|ates, please wait	18:21
timeless_mbp	the progress bar is stuck at \|	18:21
lbt_	mgedmin: mine is in /scratchbox/devkits/git/bin/git	18:21
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lbt_	which may mean it's in sbox now, not fremantle... which may mean not on the devide	18:21
mgedmin	what scratchbox, I want it on my actual device	18:21
mgedmin	:/	18:21
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lbt_	lcuk: ping.... do you use git on the tablet?	18:22
frals	major points for the n900 today at uni, a friend needed help with his apache.conf, i pulled up my n900, ssh'd to my server and showed him my config	18:22
VDVsx	downloaded a trailer from ovi with .dm as a extension 0_0, doesn't work here,lol	18:22
mgedmin	I want to version my ~/.profile and friends	18:22
frals	jaws were dropping... :D	18:22
javispedro	VDVsx: rename that to ".drm" ;)	18:22
VDVsx	lolol	18:22
mgedmin	I'm pretty sure diablo had subversion, maybe I should just rebuild	18:22
anidel	valerio: noticed the same...	18:22
lbt_	mgedmin: use git	18:23
lbt_	it's in diablo extras	18:23
timeless_mbp	VDVsx: hrm, so the stores are dead	18:23
lbt_	so should be easy to port over	18:23
mgedmin	lbt_, actually, I'd like to, but I can never figure out how to mirror git repos	18:23
timeless_mbp	cool, i hope they close mexico city too	18:23
lbt_	mgedmin: ask...	18:23
mgedmin	there's no git push ssh://server/nonexistentdirectory	18:23
mgedmin	people have tried to show me, with little success ...	18:23
anidel	timeless: it's re Nokia closing down its flagships stores?	18:24
lbt_	mgedmin: what are you trying to do?	18:24
timeless_mbp	http://nokiaexperts.com/breaking-nokia-closing-flagship-stores-york-chicago/	18:24
timeless_mbp	from VDVsx 's comment earlier	18:24
anidel	yeah I've read that already	18:25
redeeman	i wonder how store.ovi.mobi detects the device, not from the useragent it seems	18:25
mgedmin	lbt_, use a version control system for backups	18:25
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lbt_	mgedmin: mmm use rsync	18:26
mgedmin	rsync is a bloody PITA	18:26
lbt_	and rsback	18:26
lbt_	yeah, but it's efficient in many dimensions	18:26
mgedmin	and I want to version my dotfiles and bash scripts, not just have the latest copy	18:26
mgedmin	I need efficiency usability-wise, mostly	18:26
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redeeman	rdiff-backup could always be used :P	18:26
lbt_	ah, so local vcs	18:26
redeeman	ofcourse svn is probably nicer	18:27
mgedmin	svn works kinda well, but the .svn subdirs scattered everywhere annoy me	18:27
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lbt_	use git with a local repo	18:27
lbt_	and setup a clone	18:27
lbt_	and then push to it	18:27
mgedmin	precisely what I ant	18:27
mgedmin	s/ant/want/	18:27
infobot	mgedmin meant: precisely what I want	18:27
mgedmin	if I could only figure out how to set up a clone	18:27
lbt_	use git-server on the backup - started from init	18:27
mgedmin	scp maybe	18:27
mgedmin	don't wanna new server with a new tcp port with new dnat rules and new authentication issues, I want ssh	18:28
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lardman	hmm, just played with one of those huge screen HTC WinMo devices	18:28
lardman	was very slow	18:28
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lbt_	meh then use ssh to tunnel. git doesn't really use ssh.	18:28
lardman	but the email preview was nice, arranged like pieces of paper which you flick past to the next one	18:29
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lbt_	ssh -L XX:server:XX; git push localhost	18:29
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mgedmin	lbt_, I don't believe that's the only way	18:30
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mgedmin	git clone support ssh natively	18:30
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mgedmin	nah, I just need to find a couple of hours, sit down and figure things out	18:31
lbt_	yep - but not "best practice" and seems to produce bugs. IIRC which I may not	18:31
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lbt_	hmm, I could be thinking of http actually :)	18:32
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eMHa	so, i bricked second time!	18:33
eMHa	and it was my .profile which looped and bricked	18:33
lardman	by definition there is no second time with bricking	18:34
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Scummer	:)	18:34
eMHa	lardman: hehe	18:34
eMHa	i bricked first time	18:34
lcuk	lbt	18:34
eMHa	and i wanted to see what the reason was!	18:34
eMHa	i changed .profile	18:34
lcuk	yes	18:34
lardman	no, bricking is a one way street	18:34
eMHa	but	18:34
lcuk	but i cannot access https repositories	18:34
eMHa	bash was involved	18:34
lardman	once a brick forever a brick	18:34
eMHa	i had a loop only if bash is installed	18:35
eMHa	und after reflashing	18:35
eMHa	bash isn't installed	18:35
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eMHa	timeless_mbp: and it was my .profile but in combination with bash	18:35
timeless_mbp	you installed BASH?	18:35
eMHa	yes	18:35
timeless_mbp	and you're surprised you bricked your device?	18:36
eMHa	it's in extras	18:36
eMHa	hehe	18:36
timeless_mbp	...	18:36
eMHa	i didn't changed default login to /bin/bash	18:36
eMHa	i let /bin/sh point to busybox	18:36
timeless_mbp	sorry. if you don't think that voids your warrantee ...	18:36
frals	its not a brick if it works after reflashing tbh ;o	18:36
* timeless_mbp frowns		18:36
eMHa	hey, i don't think i'm using my warantee	18:36
* hardaker just read back and notes: I created a git package yesterday... I don't have garage upload permission yet though.		18:36
timeless_mbp	my macbook pro's screen doesn't support tapping	18:36
lardman	Anyone know how Sheperd is coming along?	18:37
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lardman	would be useful with Latitude location notifier to switch wireless on/off	18:37
eMHa	timeless_mbp: i wanted to know what bricked my N900, so i found out	18:38
eMHa	and i'm happy i know now :-)	18:38
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timeless_mbp	eMHa: someone else complained that you shouldn't be able to brick it by using .profile	18:38
eMHa	yeah	18:38
timeless_mbp	the warranty void bit is really to the someone else	18:38
eMHa	so it is possible!	18:38
timeless_mbp	but my memory is too short	18:38
eMHa	if you put something into .profile which is bad	18:38
eMHa	your N900 doesn't start	18:38
timeless_mbp	but you said w/o bash, .profile didn't kill you, no?	18:38
eMHa	well	18:39
eMHa	it was a if bash is installed do something	18:39
eMHa	otherwise do what different	18:39
eMHa	so it is possible to do this if bash is not installed	18:39
* timeless_mbp wonders what looked for bash		18:39
eMHa	i had somtheing like	18:40
eMHa	if [ -x /bin/bash ]	18:40
eMHa	then	18:40
eMHa	..	18:40
eMHa	else	18:40
eMHa	..	18:40
eMHa	fi	18:40
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eMHa	in my .profile	18:40
mgedmin	a narrow miss	18:40
eMHa	if bash is installed	18:40
eMHa	there where some commands	18:40
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mgedmin	not the best check, though, better check if it's bash that's running .profile	18:40
eMHa	which could also be executed when no bash is installed	18:41
mgedmin	you can have both and still use /bin/sh	18:41
eMHa	my luck was	18:41
eMHa	that if bash wasn't installed	18:41
eMHa	the commands weren't executed	18:41
* mgedmin suggests if [ -n "$BASH_VERSION" ]; then		18:41
timeless_mbp	but roughly, i think most people should understand that pulling out an xterm	18:41
timeless_mbp	and randomly changing the file system is asking for trouble	18:41
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eMHa	timeless_mbp: yeah	18:42
eMHa	you're right	18:42
eMHa	but i'm a geek	18:42
eMHa	i need to do such things ;-)	18:42
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timeless_mbp	if this was a car, you'd have caused thousands of euros of damage :)	18:43
eMHa	timeless_mbp: it wasn't enough for me to see my device back in business	18:43
eMHa	i wanted to know what it was	18:43
timeless_mbp	yeah, i appreciate that	18:43
eMHa	timeless_mbp: yeah i better don't think about the money i could have lost	18:43
eMHa	now i know a little bit more about the deivce	18:44
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eMHa	and this will hopefully prevent me from bricking again	18:44
eMHa	so putting something like exit in .profile could prevent your n900 from booting	18:44
Jaffa	Exciting new apps in the Ovi Store - like Pendulum Touch, Speedometer Touch, Snow Globe Touch, ...	18:45
eMHa	perhaps there is a way around this?	18:45
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: my ham is still stuck	18:45
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lardman	hmm Ovi store works now?	18:46
anidel	lardman: http://store.ove.mobi	18:46
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timeless_mbp	Jaffa: ooh, it finally got unstuck!	18:46
anidel	ovi.mobi	18:46
timeless_mbp	i have an update for supertux!	18:46
Jaffa	lardman: The link in the menu still goes through to the holding page, but opening http://store.ovi.mobi/ in the browser shows some content. Even paid stuff	18:47
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lardman	oh right	18:47
anidel	Jaffa: were you able to install any of those apps?	18:47
timeless_mbp	VDVsx: downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/obi/./Packages = 404	18:47
lbt_	the desktop browser doesn't show N900 stuff	18:47
anidel	pendulum says: Unable to download "offscr-pendulum" package not found	18:47
anidel	what does "off screen" means?	18:47
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timeless_mbp	lbt_: forge your useragent	18:47
Jaffa	anidel: I got the same error	18:48
timeless_mbp	anidel: the screen is an area on which things can be placed	18:48
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timeless_mbp	anything which is on the screen is "off screen"	18:48
timeless_mbp	something which doesn't fit entirely "on screen" is "partially off screen"	18:48
lbt_	timeless_mbp: is ovi worth it?	18:48
anidel	uhm ok	18:48
timeless_mbp	lbt_: not with a typo...	18:48
range	anidel: I guess it's the publisher :)	18:49
range	And no, backgammon isn#t downloadable either.	18:49
anidel	range: yup	18:49
range	But I have an update for bounce evolution :)	18:49
anidel	Offscreen "The S60 Touch Applications Company"	18:49
range	Oh.	18:50
range	S60 emulator? >:)	18:50
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lbt_	don't suppose they have a free upgrade for Maps do they?	18:50
VDVsx	timeless_mbp, I can download some stuff (music, trailers), but the rest is not available yet	18:50
* lbt_ considers offering "rm" as an upgrade.		18:50
VDVsx	and the media files are drm protected, lol	18:50
lardman	bbl	18:50
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Jaffa	VDVsx: Do they play/work?!	18:50
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VDVsx	Jaffa, no	18:51
Jaffa	VDVsx: Ah.	18:51
anidel	may be it's just a beta and they're testing with some random apps? don't think so myself :P	18:51
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VDVsx	.dm is the extension	18:51
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timeless_mbp	presumably for the drm you need to get a key which comes some other way	18:51
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timeless_mbp	dm = digital music? :)	18:51
anidel	I assuem that .dm is for S60 as well	18:51
Jaffa	Some of the little apps look quite fun	18:51
VDVsx	Jaffa, those files work in my symbian device	18:51
anidel	see	18:52
Jaffa	"Disks Touch" has a review from a "peter.schneider"	18:52
range	.oO ( "Comes with no Music" ... )	18:52
VDVsx	timeless_mbp, http://www.fileinfo.com/extension/dm	18:52
anidel	looks like it's Delta Music?	18:52
timeless_mbp	oh, delivery message	18:52
timeless_mbp	how obvious	18:52
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timeless_mbp	why didn't i think of that...	18:52
anidel	:)	18:53
anidel	and these were Trailers!	18:53
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timeless_mbp	wouldn't want you to copy them...	18:53
VDVsx	dunno lol	18:53
VDVsx	I can copy them from the web	18:53
VDVsx	lol	18:53
anidel	:)	18:53
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anidel	but the Ovi catalog had some updated packages... minor numbers though	18:54
Jaffa	Ah! Tap on "Offscreen" - it's the name of the sodding developer!	18:54
Jaffa	"Offscreen - The S60 Touch Applications Compnay. http://www.offscr.com"	18:55
timeless_mbp	oh	18:55
timeless_mbp	heh	18:55
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anidel	I wrote that before :p tsk!	18:55
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slonopotamus	hmm	18:57
slonopotamus	fremantle kinda rocks	18:57
slonopotamus	i especially like contacts	18:57
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slonopotamus	how do you type '1'?	18:59
Stskeeps	fn?	19:00
zash	m/[lI1]/	19:00
jpjokela	slonopotamus: Now you need only 0 and you can start coding!	19:00
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slonopotamus	i mean... it isn't very easy to press fn and q	19:00
slonopotamus	simultaniously	19:01
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jpjokela	slonopotamus: There is probably a way to put fn to "lock mode"	19:01
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jpjokela	or something, you know	19:01
slonopotamus	even worse, fn + a	19:01
anidel	press fn twice	19:01
anidel	it'll lock it	19:01
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anidel	press it again to unlock it	19:01
anidel	same for Shift (Caps Lock)	19:02
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javispedro	slonopotamus: you don't have to press both simultaniously, at least in gtk/qt apps	19:03
anidel	you can press fn + a with one thumb	19:03
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slonopotamus	fn + a - agreed	19:04
slonopotamus	fn+q - woops	19:04
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anidel	as javispedro said, you can press FN once, release it and then the letter	19:04
slonopotamus	err	19:04
slonopotamus	fn+shift+z gives $€	19:05
anidel	so one press and FN stays locked for a single char, press it twice and it stays locked until you press it again	19:05
slonopotamus	oh,k	19:05
Scummer	ah.. good to know	19:06
anidel	some for Shift	19:06
anidel	*same	19:06
anidel	to write accented letters, press FN then Sym then the accent you want and THEN the letter you want accented	19:07
javispedro	good to know? dont ya read the manuals? ;)	19:07
* javispedro reminds the maebar event ;)		19:07
slonopotamus	btw, gps doesn't work without cell connection at all	19:07
Scummer	what manual ? ;)	19:07
anidel	you might wonder how to then write a single ~ or ' or ` .. FN then Sym then the symbol (~ or ' or whatever) then space	19:07
javispedro	slonopotamus: yeah, seems ovi maps bugs though	19:07
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javispedro	slonopotamus: real performance should be similar to the disastrous n810 one	19:08
anidel	Scummer there should be a PDF in the device	19:08
javispedro	PDF? I got a bunch of html files.	19:08
anidel	oh ok.. that	19:08
slonopotamus	javi, at all means at all. damn, where's equals sign?	19:08
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Scummer	manuals are for engineers..	19:09
slonopotamus	and tab to autocomplete nicks...	19:09
Myrtti	Scummer: and for people that want more bang to their buck	19:09
Scummer	the tab i've been looking for as well.. to autocompletely commands	19:09
javispedro	slonopotamus: you tried without ovi maps?	19:09
Scummer	it is with the symbols.. but the tab should be on the physical keyboard	19:10
slonopotamus	javi, with what then?	19:10
javispedro	there's a debug tool roaming around bugs.maemo.org	19:10
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javispedro	ovi maps is absolutely awful and reaches uselessness for me	19:10
fnordianslip	ctrl+i works in xterm for tab	19:10
Scummer	hmm.. map tab to the pound sign? the pound ain't worth anything anymore anyway.. :)	19:11
slonopotamus	oouucchh	19:11
slonopotamus	i	19:11
slonopotamus	i	19:11
slonopotamus	i	19:11
slonopotamus	i	19:11
slonopotamus	a	19:11
slonopotamus	a	19:11
slonopotamus	ccrraapp	19:11
Stskeeps	..?	19:11
slonopotamus	iitt ttyyppeess eevveerryytthhiinngg ttwwiiccee..	19:11
slonopotamus	;;DD	19:11
anidel	what did you do?	19:11
Myrtti	:-DDDD	19:12
Scummer	ctrl+i does work.. is that in the manual as well ?	19:12
Myrtti	multifail	19:12
javispedro	yeah, got that bug once	19:12
Scummer	maybe i should start reading	19:12
javispedro	close the window and open it again	19:12
slonopotamus	oh	19:12
slonopotamus	it fixed	19:12
anidel	can someone test Xournal and vote for it in Extras Testing? only 2 votes missing to reach 10.. and it's been a month there :(	19:13
anidel	almost	19:13
mgedmin	Scummer, nah, ctrl+i simply has the same ASCII code as Tab in an xterm, every grizzled bearded Unix user knows that	19:14
Scummer	i don't have a beard :)	19:14
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Scummer	but man.. with the tab on the keyboard i never had to look that up.. learn something new everyday	19:14
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Scummer	mgedmin: i'm assuming the beard needs to be grey and your last name should closely resemble stallman to know that ? :)	19:15
mgedmin	ctrl+a throught ctrl+z are ASCII codes 1 through 26	19:16
anidel	Scummer: wrong :p I don't have a beard and my italian name is far from "stallman" ;)	19:16
javispedro	anidel: is xournal optified?	19:16
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mgedmin	and then you get ctrl+[, \, ], ^, _ for 27 (aka ESC) through 31	19:16
anidel	javispedro: no. If I optify it, it doesn't start	19:16
timeless_mbp	lol	19:16
timeless_mbp	i opened sketch	19:17
mgedmin	and ctrl-@ is ASCII 0	19:17
timeless_mbp	and it gave me "can't open\nfile not found"	19:17
pupnik	wow, all i knew was ctrl-g	19:17
timeless_mbp	but i was opening sketch	19:17
javispedro	my rootfs went down 6% ... :P	19:17
anidel	pupnik: CTRL-s to pause screen scrolling, CTRL-q to un-pause it... dunno if it works in Terminal	19:17
mgedmin	should	19:18
anidel	javispedro :D I shall try optifying the libraries it depends on	19:18
mgedmin	nice little trap for people who don't know what they did to make their terminals freeze ;)	19:18
javispedro	maybe I am being paranoid but up so far I still had the same % as the device came	19:18
anidel	:)	19:18
Scummer	true true	19:18
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* timeless_mbp hates ctrl-s/ctrl-q		19:19
Scummer	ctrl-s is easy to hit instead of ctrl-a	19:19
javispedro	what we need is the autobuilder to start optifying things	19:19
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anidel	javispedro; I still think it should be added to the Rules file by the developers, but it should be incorporated in the documentation when talking about packaging for Maemo. Is it there already?	19:20
anidel	I don't like the idea of autobuilder doing something the developer isn't aware of	19:20
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javispedro	anidel: one would be allowed to disable it, but by default I think it should optify	19:21
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anidel	javispedro: I respectfully disagree :)	19:21
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javispedro	the documentation says "maemo-optify" before dh_builddeb call	19:21
mgedmin	btw typing ctrl-^ is difficult on n900; so far I only managed by using the Ctrl toolbar button and pressing Fn+6	19:21
javispedro	in debian/rules	19:22
javispedro	and maemo-optify in Build-Depends in debian/control iirc	19:22
anidel	javispedro: so fine.. a MAemo developer has no excuses to avoid it	19:22
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anidel	I will try it again tonight.. last time it made Xournal unable to start.. it made some mess with the links.. if I recall correctly it did move files but didn't link them	19:23
anidel	BUT if I fix it.. I will lose a month worth of votes :)	19:23
javispedro	anidel: I wouldn't mind because my apps don't tend to depend on lots of libraries... but you'll have to edit a bunch of libraries' debian/rules files for...	19:23
javispedro	something that could be done automatically :)	19:23
anidel	javispedro: yep.. so simply provide the tool to the developer and he'll run it against his files BEFORE uploading them to the autobuilder	19:24
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javispedro	or just edit dh_builddeb dammit :)	19:24
javispedro	you can get same result as what the autobuilder would get -- by running maemo-optify-deb package.deb	19:24
anidel	so.. I think something like this should be made explicit by the developer. We're moving around his files. He has to know that more clearly than a subtle change to builddeb o some automatic tool in autobuilder.	19:25
lardman	any ideas why this wouldn't work?: buf = gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_scale(filename, 640, -1, TRUE, &error);	19:25
anidel	there's an 'error' there :p	19:26
anidel	height -1 ?	19:26
anidel	oh ok	19:26
lardman	should perform automatic scaling of that dimension so I read	19:27
anidel	which error do you get?	19:27
lardman	the odd thing is that buf==NULL and error is not set either	19:27
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anidel	is filename correct?	19:28
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lardman	yes, but even if it weren't, one or other should be set	19:28
anidel	yep.. how is error defined?	19:29
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lardman	GError *error;	19:29
anidel	try GError *error = NULL;	19:29
anidel	is it allocating error automatically ?	19:30
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lardman	I think it should set it, then I should free it	19:30
derf	lardman: GErrors must be initialized before calling the function.	19:30
anidel	yes so it may check for error being set to null	19:30
lardman	ah ok	19:30
anidel	"must" or can?	19:30
derf	MUST.	19:30
derf	In the RFC sense.	19:30
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lardman	ok, my fault then, thanks chaps	19:30
anidel	ok	19:31
derf	I think the idea is you can call a bunch of functions which can return a GError, and then only check at the end if anything went wrong, without leaking memory.	19:31
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derf	Like most error handling schemes, this is mostly a pipe dream.	19:32
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anidel	derf: if you only check at the end, you only get the last error, do you?	19:33
lardman	or the latter fns fail to work as error is set?	19:33
lardman	which would explain all my issues in one go	19:33
anidel	A GError* must be initialized to NULL before passing its address to a function that can report errors.	19:33
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anidel	so it's the opposite..	19:34
anidel	looks like to me..	19:34
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anidel	in this way it's only allocated if there's an error, preserving memory in case everything is fine	19:35
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lardman	and if it's not NULL, just return	19:35
anidel	because the assert fails.. there must be a check in the function	19:35
lardman	e.g. as if an error was being passed thought	19:35
lardman	s/thought/through	19:36
anidel	yep	19:36
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anidel	and was not properly checked	19:36
lardman	right, so hopefully my code will now just work	19:36
derf	Ah, no, I was wrong. The docs say you're required to check the error after each function call.	19:36
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anidel	exactly..	19:36
derf	So I have no idea why they force you to initialize it.	19:36
anidel	if you don't and error is set, then the next function will do nothing	19:36
lardman	for the reason you said	19:36
anidel	they don't	19:37
lardman	so you can continue calling functions and they realise an error has already happened	19:37
derf	lardman: http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-Error-Reporting.html disagrees.	19:37
lardman	oh	19:37
derf	It claims that such usage is always a bug.	19:37
anidel	GError *error; error = NULL; function (param1, param2, &error);	19:37
anidel	if (error != NULL) { check it }	19:37
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anidel	yep.. piling up errors is incorrect	19:38
anidel	but the second function will just do nothing	19:38
anidel	so an error doesn't do more damage because of a faulty code	19:39
derf	You hope.	19:40
derf	It seems in no way guaranteed.	19:40
anidel	lardman: remember to always initialize your variables, some languages do that, C doesn't	19:40
anidel	derf: well of course not	19:40
anidel	derf: but it helps a bit.. better do nothing when error is set, than doing something when the environment is possibly unstable	19:41
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lardman	anidel: I didn't think it needed it as I was passing a pointer and had to free what it returned	19:41
lardman	though it is my fault for not understanding how it dealt with non-NULL pointers	19:41
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anidel	lardman: well you were passing a non NULL value, it could have been a pointer to a correctly allocated memory	19:42
anidel	lardman: ignoring that would have possible generated a leak	19:42
anidel	*possibly	19:42
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lardman	indeed, but most code doesn't check ;)	19:42
lardman	and I knew it wasn't pointing to anything, etc., etc.	19:43
anidel	doesn't mean you don't have to initialize :p	19:43
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anidel	"you knew" :)	19:43
lardman	saves ops	19:43
anidel	doesn't help :P :) hihi	19:43
lardman	not here, but anyway :)	19:43
anidel	ahahah	19:43
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anidel	anyway.. I always initialize and optimize somewhere else. It makes for a cleaner and safer code	19:44
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anidel	and saves you from "oops" rather than "ops"	19:44
lardman	yes mother ;p	19:45
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anidel	good boy ;)	19:45
anidel	sorry for being pedantic...	19:46
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anidel	but I am a fan of clear code against optimized/unreadable one	19:46
anidel	I am also very pedantic about indentation of the code.. and Xournal code is NOT ! ARGH! :/	19:47
fnordianslip	Weird. On my N900, in the (what shall i call it) applications grid (?) under More.. all of my applications with a capital F in their name have a weird looking "F" character, i.e. FileManager FMRadio, etc.	19:47
AbstractW	Dell Home has a pretty good deal on the N900.	19:47
AbstractW	$450	19:47
fnordianslip	anyone else notice the starnge "F" characters?	19:48
red	joppu: are there any layouts with part of the screen visible? the touchkeyb seems awful large	19:48
fnordianslip	strange, even	19:48
anidel	fnordianslip: screenshot?	19:49
joppu	red: what?	19:49
AbstractW	funk, its not there anymore.	19:49
red	saw your image from 17:57	19:49
red	guess you edited the button images or something?	19:49
joppu	http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test2.png	19:49
fnordianslip	anidel: ok. in progress	19:50
joppu	red: http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/scr32.jpg	19:50
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red	latter seems quite fine	19:51
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joppu	red: It's the default one	19:51
AbstractW	I wonder if I should trust this retailer..	19:51
AbstractW	http://esaleincshop.com/Mobile-Phones/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Computer-Unlocked-p16.html	19:51
red	looks so different from pc screen ha =)	19:51
red	if i had to guess, the glossy one looked like the original	19:51
anidel	thanks	19:52
nomis	not sure if the phone functionality does convince me. I don't want ear-imprints on the touchscreen :-/	19:52
anidel	CTRL-SHIFT-P to make a screenshot	19:52
nomis	also the audio does sound a little bit muffled.	19:52
red	i just hate ending calls with my ear	19:53
fnordianslip	anidel: have the shot. best place to upload it?	19:53
fnordianslip	never mind	19:53
red	id take a capacitive screen with two-finger zoom over this one any day, but thats the only thing so far that bugs me.. will prolly get used to this one regardless	19:53
anidel	fnordianslip: flickr? picasa? wherever you have an account?	19:53
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fnordianslip	anidel: http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/screenshot00.png	19:55
anidel	uhm.. cool one :)	19:55
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fnordianslip	anidel: is yours like that?	19:56
anidel	nope	19:56
fnordianslip	hmm. will try reboot	19:56
anidel	looks like the font is messed up.. yeah try that	19:56
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lardman	anidel: np :)	19:57
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anidel	it's the solution to the np = p problem?? cool!	19:57
timeless_mbp	rebooting?	19:58
anidel	timeless: how do you recover from a faulty font?	19:59
timeless_mbp	rebuild font db and reboot?	19:59
* timeless_mbp shrugs		19:59
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timeless_mbp	"don't do that"	19:59
anidel	are the tools in the N900?	19:59
timeless_mbp	the fontcache thing is	19:59
timeless_mbp	iirc droidfonts uses it	20:00
fnordianslip	anidel: my Fs are ok after reboot	20:00
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anidel	timeless: ok	20:00
fnordianslip	all other letters seem present and correct AFAICT	20:00
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anidel	timeless and what's the command?	20:01
anidel	can't seem to find it.. you know it?	20:01
anidel	mkfont tools are not..	20:02
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fnordianslip	should i raise a bug for the Fs ?	20:03
anidel	fc-cache...	20:04
nomis	fnordianslip: unless you have a way to reproduce the problem the bug-report is probably worthless.	20:04
anidel	fnordianslip: don't think so...	20:04
fnordianslip	like most of the ones i've done so far then :)	20:04
timeless_mbp	roughly	20:04
timeless_mbp	afaict, replacing fonts or localizations live requires a reboot	20:04
timeless_mbp	i was supposed to poke eero about that today	20:04
timeless_mbp	but got sidetracked	20:04
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RevdKathy	fnordianslip - did you tell your n900 to 'F off'? It took you literally	20:06
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fnordianslip	RevdKathy: Nope, not yet - it's too shiney for that	20:06
anidel	these computers.. they always do whatever you tell them, never what you want them to do	20:07
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fnordianslip	indeed :)	20:07
RevdKathy	I know some men like that :p	20:07
anidel	Men always do whatever you tell them to do.	20:07
fnordianslip	or do nothing	20:07
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anidel	just their own personal way :p	20:07
RevdKathy	Yep, but never wwhat you want them to do	20:08
crashanddie	anidel: don't talk to the computer	20:08
fnordianslip	that's what the broken mic is for :)	20:08
anidel	crash: only when it has to 'F off'	20:08
anidel	anyway got to go now...	20:08
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anidel	see you all later	20:08
fnordianslip	tra	20:08
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redeeman	the status bar thingie which has the battery and wifi indicator and the popup, what is the process name for that? hildon-status-menu?	20:15
redeeman	ah up	20:15
redeeman	yup*	20:15
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GeneralAntilles	andre__, :(	20:27
andre__	GeneralAntilles, yes, please?	20:27
GeneralAntilles	andre__, I was trying. Nobody would give me the proper strings, though.	20:28
andre__	for?	20:28
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GeneralAntilles	To make a good report.	20:28
andre__	errm... well, you know what I talk about, right?	20:28
GeneralAntilles	I had timeless's stringset installed.	20:28
* GeneralAntilles wasn't trying to be sarcastic.		20:28
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: advanced lets you look up a string	20:29
andre__	but I was :-P	20:29
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* timeless_mbp needs to get a way to let people copy text from zenity		20:29
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, yes, I know, but I accidentally tapped outside of the dialog box.	20:29
timeless_mbp	heh	20:29
andre__	GeneralAntilles, the "Display" is not really an issue. I'd prefer to have useful "OUTCOME" sections though ;-)	20:29
GeneralAntilles	andre__, I dunno, it screws up the brightness curves.	20:29
GeneralAntilles	Either somebody can fix it or it can be removed.	20:30
timeless_mbp	heh, bug 6679 is more like DIVERTED	20:30
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6679 Need a way to manage & edit user credentials	20:30
andre__	GeneralAntilles: hmm. maybe I am too bitchy today :-/	20:30
* andre__ sighs		20:30
* Stskeeps passes andre__ a beer		20:30
* GeneralAntilles is freaking jetlagged.		20:30
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Hehe, delayed jetlag?	20:31
andre__	Stskeeps, thanks. appreciated, really	20:31
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* RevdKathy passes andre__ a beer		20:31
andre__	too much stuff broken today	20:31
Stskeeps	maemo.org bugmaster, the most unforgiving job ever	20:31
Stskeeps	:P	20:31
andre__	RevdKathy, heh. thanks, thanks!	20:31
RevdKathy	:)	20:32
GeneralAntilles	andre__, I looked at the recent changes list on b.m.o the other day, saw more than a half-dozen red-text lines and gave up. ;)	20:32
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I keep crashing mid-afternoon.	20:32
andre__	GeneralAntilles, haha. well, it's still okay. but of course, more noise. hence I try to explain people that it's not a forum...	20:32
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andre__	funny thing is that now I get both "Thanks" and "Fuck you" by private email. A few months ago it was only "fuck you". Now is that a good sign? :-P	20:33
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Yeah, I had this wake up at 5am thing at the beginning of the week. Also not cool.	20:33
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GeneralAntilles	I'm getting to bed at a normal time, waking up at a normal time, but crashing really early in the day.	20:34
lardman	you're getting old ;)	20:34
GeneralAntilles	lardman, that's what I keep saying!	20:34
mgedmin	andre__, people are usually more motivated to say F*K YOU than Thanks, so every Thanks ought to be counted 100x more	20:34
RevdKathy	andre__ can I say thanks over IRC then?	20:34
lardman	Just wait, soon you'll be saying "when I were a lad..."	20:34
andre__	okay, my mood is getting better. thank you all :-)	20:34
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GeneralAntilles	lardman, dude. . . .	20:35
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GeneralAntilles	lardman, these kids these days. <_<	20:35
lardman	lol	20:35
RevdKathy	General Antilles - you are a long, long way fro old!	20:35
lardman	derf: that fixed it, thanks	20:36
derf	lardman: Yer welcome.	20:36
lardman	where did anidel go?	20:36
lardman	anyway thanks too anidel/mum	20:36
mtrlt	does maemo5 use gpsd?	20:37
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Stskeeps	gypsy and some obscure liblocation	20:37
GeneralAntilles	Ha, awesome. http://intellintv.blip.tv/file/2893208/	20:37
mtrlt	ok, thanks	20:37
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: crossover games ftw	20:38
mtrlt	is there hope for libgps to work on maemo5?	20:38
timeless_mbp	http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/keep_sent_and_drafts_on_imap_server/#official_email_client	20:38
mtrlt	(i guess not, but..)	20:38
Gadgetoid_iMac	danger danger high dorkage!	20:39
timeless_mbp	brainstorm can't handle 100 votes	20:39
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X-Fade	Wow, posting to this one bug sends out a lot of mails. Lots of people in CC. :)	20:39
* lardman goes to play some sport, bbl		20:40
andre__	X-Fade, yeah, your bugs are getting popular too now :-P	20:40
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X-Fade	andre__: I blame GeneralAntilles for that one ;)	20:40
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I fixed a typo in the summary of one of those a few weeks ago without realizing how many people were subscribed. I changed all of one character and it sent out like 60 emails.	20:41
tekonivel	i am organizing my calendar, but after creating some new calendars i got wondering what is the maximum number of them?	20:41
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Yeah, fun stuff..	20:42
tekonivel	i work on various projects, i would love to have a separate calendar for each. but if there's a limit of, say 10 calendars, i will run out of them in no time	20:42
tekonivel	so should i instead have calendars like "work", "study" etc, and not more atomic ones	20:42
GeneralAntilles	and what the hell am I getting blamed for now, anyway? :P	20:43
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: The servers one.	20:43
Gadgetoid_iMac	GeneralAntilles: world war 2	20:43
GeneralAntilles	Ah, christ.	20:43
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I hate that the angry mob attached itself to that one.	20:44
RevdKathy	No, just his appointed representative	20:44
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I had to stop myself from RESOLVING it this morning.	20:44
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I don't mind that, really.	20:44
andre__	Gadgetoid, no, World War 2 is still mine.	20:44
tekonivel	also i wonder what would happen if i deleted a calendar... would all the events be removed too or just their colour and the events would go to the default N900 -calendar... that's easy to test however	20:44
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Things _are_ slow atm, but at least most of the hardware is now getting delivered.	20:45
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GeneralAntilles	RevdKathy, my father favors, "I guess you didn't recognize me without my sandals." ;)	20:45
RevdKathy	X-Fade... yeah no more shipping threads!! :D	20:45
RevdKathy	LOL	20:45
RevdKathy	good reply	20:45
tekonivel	ok yeah, deleting a calendar also removes the entries in it	20:45
RevdKathy	So, tekonivel, who is gonna hate you now for forgetting theirbirthday?	20:46
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jebba	OMFG! I see the brainstorm page! f1rst time ever loaded for me :)	20:47
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Scummer	hmm... i wonder how safe it would be to install a trunk version of modest and tinymail...	20:47
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Ceron^	20:37:51 GeneralAntilles: Ha, awesome. http://intellintv.blip.tv/file/2893208/	20:48
Ceron^	translate this jiberish	20:49
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Ceron^	what is it about?	20:49
GeneralAntilles	Ceron^, ask crashanddie.	20:49
GeneralAntilles	Ceron^, it's Khertan talking about Maemo.	20:49
Ceron^	some new browser ? :\	20:49
GeneralAntilles	No, just Maemo in general.	20:49
Scummer	gah.. french	20:50
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Gadgetoid_iMac	Baaah my partner is drinking mulled bloody wine at the Samsung christmas party... AYEWANNAAAGOO!! damn London	20:52
RevdKathy	Sounds wonderful!	20:52
tekonivel	RevdKathy: lol facebooks sends greetings automatically anyway :)	20:53
GiantTalkingCow	Damn London? Unhappy you're not there, I'm guessing?	20:53
RevdKathy	That's no use - no proof you thought of them at all	20:53
Gadgetoid_iMac	Yes GiantTalkingCow... I should have moved closer	20:53
tekonivel	how do i conjure a pipe from the keyboard? i want to run 'dmesg \|grep -i "bogomips"'	20:54
* RevdKathy is writing Christmas cards by hand		20:54
Gadgetoid_iMac	I missed the Nokia party too	20:54
andre__	tekonivel, Blue key and Contorl key	20:54
Gadgetoid_iMac	tekonivel: top right of the symbols menu	20:54
GiantTalkingCow	Ah well, c'est la vie. Not fond of the holidays myself, parties or no. Then again, I do live in the US, which likely has something to do with it.	20:54
Gadgetoid_iMac	I like gadget related parties GiantTalkingCow, but I'm generally a bit out of place at any other variety	20:55
tekonivel	andre__: wow thanks!	20:55
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GiantTalkingCow	I don't dislike parties, I just loathe the traditional Christmas decorations, trimmings, songs, etc.	20:55
crashanddie	Ceron^: He's saying "I'm an individual developer in the Maemo Community, I develop Open Source applications for Maemo. Maemo is an Open Source operating system developed by Nokia, based on Debian, bla bla bla	20:55
GeneralAntilles	The only thing that has made me dislike the holidays is working retail. ;)	20:56
Gadgetoid_iMac	I don't think I could work retail	20:56
* SpeedEvil places a reindeer hat on GeneralAntilles.		20:56
Ceron^	why did you paste that stuff ;(	20:56
tekonivel	bugger, dmesg doesn't mention bogomips	20:56
Ceron^	if it wanst anything good!	20:56
el_zilcho	"Package libzeemote is not available, but is referred to by another package.	20:56
Flandry	bah humbug	20:56
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I think working retail should be required for citizenship. ;)	20:56
GiantTalkingCow	I just hate the commercial blitz that accompanies the holidays in the US. Also, this recent "War on Christmas" shit that's been popping up every year.	20:57
el_zilcho	Any clue what package refers to libzeemote? i see http://maemo.org/packages/view/libzeemote/	20:57
GeneralAntilles	Ceron^, because Khertan's on TV?	20:57
RevdKathy	Try working in the church: by 20th Dec you never want to see another mince pie or sing 'O come all ye'... but I still love it	20:57
el_zilcho	oh nm	20:57
* el_zilcho check his repo list		20:57
crashanddie	Ceron^: he's also saying that Maemo 5 is the first version of Maemo available on a phone form factor, which completely changes the market to which it's aimed, and that the next version will be based on Qt and not GTK, and that his main challenge is that he needs to re-write all of his apps to work nicely in the completely new finger-friendly Maemo 5 UI, and the future Qt libraries	20:58
Flandry	is anyone currently maintaining libzeemote?	20:58
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el_zilcho	i think i have to to add some repos that got removed when i used app manager	20:58
GiantTalkingCow	Frankly, I'm not hugely fond of finger-based UIs, myself. Or rather ones that are solely finger-driven.	20:58
timeless_mbp	GiantTalkingCow: are you fond of the real world?	20:59
timeless_mbp	or are you afraid it might it you?	21:00
GiantTalkingCow	Yes, why?	21:00
timeless_mbp	especially w/ a pair of buns	21:00
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tekonivel	found bogomips value in /proc/cpuinfo, it's 249.96	21:00
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody tried the E72 yet, by the way?	21:00
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: anything else you need translating?	21:00
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, no, you may go. :P	21:00
GiantTalkingCow	Not really. In addition to being a talking cow, I can also handle most firearms. The last Texan that tried turning me into brisket is now stuffed and mounted on my wall.	21:00
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: thank you, SIR	21:00
timeless_mbp	heh	21:01
tekonivel	compared to 3200+2400 on my real computer	21:01
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Ceron^	are there any qt apps for n900 :l	21:04
GeneralAntilles	Several, yes.	21:05
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: do you remember adventures in splash screens?	21:06
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, OS splash screens or application splash screens?	21:06
timeless_mbp	os	21:06
GeneralAntilles	Actually, I should probably just answer, "No".	21:06
timeless_mbp	the maemo rotation one	21:07
GeneralAntilles	Rotation?	21:07
timeless_mbp	i'm wondering which codec the one i'm using is using and if i could get someone to transcode to mpeg4	21:07
timeless_mbp	maemo.org w/ the orange/silver balls and the various open source project logos	21:07
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GeneralAntilles	Oh, that's from Talk.	21:08
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Scummer	btw.. is ogg not supported on the n900 ?	21:08
derf	Can you replace the video with the little pulsing dots?	21:08
GeneralAntilles	Scummer, install ogg-support from Extras.	21:08
GeneralAntilles	derf, yes.	21:08
Scummer	ah	21:08
Scummer	thanks	21:08
derf	GeneralAntilles: Link?	21:08
timeless_mbp	you can replace it w/ anything you like	21:08
timeless_mbp	i've replaced it w/ that video	21:08
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32935 <- timeless.	21:08
derf	Or rather, where is the file?	21:08
GeneralAntilles	derf, it's all handled by hildon-welcome.	21:09
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GeneralAntilles	derf, that Talk link should have the details in the first post.	21:09
derf	GeneralAntilles: Thanks.	21:09
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crashanddie	tekonivel: qdl-SLA:~ # cat /proc/cpuinfo \| grep -i bogomips bogomips: 15328.88	21:10
derf	GeneralAntilles: Hmm, that's the hands video. I meant the other one.	21:10
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: yeah, but which codec is it using?	21:10
* VDVsx needs a new twitter app for the n900		21:10
timeless_mbp	i'm told that mpeg4 has the best perf	21:10
derf	Well, "animation", I don't even know if it's actually a video.	21:10
GeneralAntilles	derf, it's in the same folder.	21:10
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, mpeg4 with an avi container.	21:10
derf	GeneralAntilles: Uh,	21:10
derf	root /usr/share/hildon-welcome/media # ls	21:10
derf	Hands-v32-h264.avi	21:10
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, however anything that GStreamer supports will work.	21:11
GeneralAntilles	derf, OK, I THOUGHT it was there.	21:11
timeless_mbp	derf: yeah, i have splash.avi	21:11
GeneralAntilles	Hrm	21:11
timeless_mbp	the other file is in /etc/hildon-welcome/	21:11
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timeless_mbp	lemme toss up my package	21:11
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derf	Yeah, I have no splash.avi on the entire system.	21:12
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timeless_mbp	derf: yeah, splash is my replacement	21:12
derf	Yeah, I'm not trying to replace hands.	21:12
timeless_mbp	i'm too lazy to give it a more interesting name	21:12
timeless_mbp	what are you trying to do?	21:13
derf	I'm trying to replace the _other_ animation thing.	21:13
derf	With the pusling dots.	21:13
timeless_mbp	if you don't like the default thing just kill the .conf from /etc/hildon-welcome/	21:13
timeless_mbp	s/me/me.d/	21:13
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: if you don't like the default thing just kill the .conf from /etc/hildon-welcome.d/	21:13
derf	timeless_mbp: Yes, I already did that days ago.	21:13
* timeless_mbp is confused		21:13
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, they may very well be .pngs.	21:14
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GeneralAntilles	Er, s/timeless_mbp/derf/	21:14
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derf	When you turn on the phone there is a) a giant Nokia logo b) some pulsing dots c) the hands video d) more pulsing dots.	21:14
GeneralAntilles	In which case they're in the icon share somewhere under hildon.	21:14
GeneralAntilles	Same as the bootsplash from Maemo 4.	21:14
GeneralAntilles	andre__, updated.	21:14
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andre__	thanks :)	21:15
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Ceron^	GeneralAntilles: tell me an example of qt app on maemo	21:16
Stskeeps	hmm	21:16
Stskeeps	someone is claiming it isn't possible to SSU-update N900 without a SIM	21:16
Stskeeps	that's wrong, right? :P	21:16
GeneralAntilles	Shopper, danielwilms application catalog browser.	21:16
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I can't imagine how it'd be required.	21:17
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: i can't imagine it's right	21:17
timeless_mbp	given that the n800/n810 didn't need a sim..	21:17
GeneralAntilles	Well, actually, I CAN _imagine_ it, but it doesn't make any sense.	21:17
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: your imagination is too active	21:17
luke-jr_	timeless_mbp: didn't need? more like couldn't use	21:17
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, oh c'mon, you WORK there. :P	21:17
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: i don't need to imagine	21:18
timeless_mbp	all i have to do is look	21:18
murrayc_	How can I type a \| on the N900?	21:18
timeless_mbp	e..g at the nokia flagshipstore	21:18
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	21:18
GeneralAntilles	murrayc_, fn-sym	21:18
murrayc_	ooh	21:19
murrayc_	nifty. thanks	21:19
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GeneralAntilles	murrayc_, before you ask, the 3rd row is deadkeys. ;)	21:19
GeneralAntilles	murrayc_, qole's figured out something or other about rebinding keys, too.	21:19
Chiku	hello	21:19
derf	Ah! /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/indicator_update?.png	21:19
RevdKathy	Thanks General Antilles! Been looking for those symbols!	21:20
murrayc_	GeneralAntilles: Oh, so that's the deadkeys weirdness that I keep hearing about.	21:20
murrayc_	So how do I actually enter ~?	21:20
Chiku	any french on this chan?	21:21
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Gadgetoid_iMac	oui Chiku, je suis un pamplemouse!	21:23
gavin	pamplemousse	21:23
GeneralAntilles	murrayc_, press space.	21:23
Chiku	why pamplemousse?	21:23
Gadgetoid_iMac	I got told!	21:23
GeneralAntilles	murrayc_, supposedly PR1.1 has an improved UI indicator or something.	21:23
Chiku	do you got n900?	21:23
Gadgetoid_iMac	Yup	21:24
Chiku	bought from th phouse house shop?	21:24
murrayc_	GeneralAntilles: How awful. +1 on that bug.	21:24
Gadgetoid_iMac	Nokia online store :).. and I'm about as french as fried bread	21:24
GeneralAntilles	andre__, ping?	21:25
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andre__	GeneralAntilles, pong!	21:25
Chiku	ok Gadgetoid	21:25
GeneralAntilles	andre__, can we change the quicksearch on the frontpage to search all bugs by default?	21:25
GeneralAntilles	Not just open ones.	21:25
Scummer	odd.. why doesn't scratchbox read the resolv.conf ?	21:25
GeneralAntilles	murrayc_, bug #5314	21:25
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5314 Easy to enter ~ ^ ' ` " symbols with 3rd row of special character view	21:25
lbt	Scummer: it's idiotic	21:26
andre__	GeneralAntilles, file me a ticket, please :)	21:26
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Yes indeed.	21:26
Stskeeps	Scummer: /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf - there's a FAQ on ths	21:26
Chiku	looks like no french around	21:26
lbt	I tried to "do it right".... but if you look at what's needed you begin to realise...	21:26
GeneralAntilles	andre__, I'd complain except it sounds like you're telling me to karma whore.	21:26
* GeneralAntilles skips over to bugzilla.		21:26
* lbt unpacks a Joggler...		21:26
Scummer	keeps: uah.. ok	21:26
Stskeeps	lbt: pics! pics!	21:27
Stskeeps	:P	21:27
andre__	murrayc_, bug 5314 is... sigh, about Managers that think that they know better than users. The internal ticket shows that quite well :-(	21:27
GeneralAntilles	andre__, managers ALWAYS know better than users.	21:27
RevdKathy	andre__ what do mere users know?	21:27
andre__	yeah. all depends on the definition of "reality", the one you have internally and the one out there...	21:28
murrayc_	andre__: Must be some weird managers.	21:28
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andre__	well, it's one of the very few tickets where I became insulting :-P	21:28
saahleh	will there be support for dynamic WEP onetime? works perfect on linux, so dont see a big problem	21:28
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Arkenoi	who needs WEP?	21:29
BluesLee	hi, does someone run quake 3 on the n900?	21:29
Arkenoi	WEP is broken, even dynamic one	21:29
* timeless_mbp curses		21:29
GeneralAntilles	andre__, insulting. Oooh.	21:29
* GeneralAntilles gives andre__ a cookie.		21:30
Scummer	keeps : the odd part was /etc/resolv.conf inside scratchbox and /etc/resolv.conf outside of scratchbox differed... confusing	21:30
lbt	sigh, wifi won't connect... reboot...	21:30
lbt	hey andre__	21:30
Scummer	but with /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf it works of course..	21:30
lbt	did you want a dmesg or something when wifi won't connect?	21:30
Scummer	dammit	21:30
Stskeeps	andre__: 5413 sounds like a "everyone does not speak finnish" mentality	21:30
Stskeeps	er, 5314	21:30
andre__	GeneralAntilles, yummy	21:31
saahleh	Arkenoi: me! tell that to my university...	21:31
timeless_mbp	andre__: a couple of notes	21:31
VDVsx	andre__, did you already ate all the chocos ? Lol	21:31
timeless_mbp	dead keys exist on windows and linux too	21:31
timeless_mbp	and they're pretty much nearly as stupid as the ones in maemo	21:32
andre__	VDVsx, sshhh!	21:32
* VDVsx hides		21:32
timeless_mbp	although most of them were smart enough that tapping twice inserted the key	21:32
timeless_mbp	instead of requiring you to press space	21:32
timeless_mbp	the windows onscreen keyboard has the same general behavior	21:32
andre__	timeless_mbp: I refer to arguments like "This is how it always works, everywhere" while I even posted official microsoft URLs showing that it's not true	21:32
timeless_mbp	(of course, it mimics the real one)	21:32
X-Fade	Double tap is pr1.1 behavior.	21:32
timeless_mbp	i'm @c7	21:32
timeless_mbp	X-Fade: 1.1 is vaporware	21:33
X-Fade	timeless_mbp: Just saying ;)	21:33
VDVsx	humm ~ works in the same way in my linux box as in the n900, where's the problem ??	21:33
timeless_mbp	VDVsx: problem is that most customers don't use dead keys	21:33
timeless_mbp	so they have no idea how a dead key works	21:33
VDVsx	timeless, their problem :P	21:33
timeless_mbp	as this is the first introduction to deadkeys	21:33
timeless_mbp	um	21:33
* timeless_mbp tosses a load of bricks at VDVsx		21:34
murrayc_	And there's no clue that it's a "dead key" or a "press this, click off the window, and press space" key.	21:34
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	21:34
valdyn	timeless_mbp: isnt this configurable using a terminal?	21:34
asidjazz	do maemo packages need to be like signed	21:34
timeless_mbp	asidjazz: no	21:34
GeneralAntilles	He may hate on the normal folks, but he's awesome at ordering tapas. :P	21:34
timeless_mbp	valdyn: eh?	21:34
asidjazz	timeless_mbp: what about the cert crap symbian does	21:34
GeneralAntilles	asidjazz, lol.	21:35
timeless_mbp	asidjazz: you're welcome to sign things	21:35
timeless_mbp	but you don't have to	21:35
VDVsx	timeless, that hurts :(	21:35
valdyn	timeless_mbp: cant die hard linux users who really want their linux - like dead keys change the dead key setting with xterm	21:35
timeless_mbp	VDVsx: don't say stupid things and you'll get fewer bricks tossed your way	21:35
andre__	murrayc_: well: user manual :-/	21:35
Chiku	what is default is on meamo5?	21:35
Chiku	shell	21:35
timeless_mbp	valdyn: we don't care about die hard users	21:35
timeless_mbp	we care about normal customers	21:35
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andre__	which is of course non-intuitive.	21:35
valdyn	timeless_mbp: but I asked	21:35
timeless_mbp	who are screwed by this broken UX	21:35
Chiku	busybox?	21:35
timeless_mbp	valdyn: you're offtopic	21:35
* VDVsx now has a 770 sent by timeless_mbp :P		21:35
GeneralAntilles	People keep thinking I'm saying "topless bar" when I tell them we went to a "tapas bar".	21:36
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: heh	21:36
timeless_mbp	andre__: so, 1. what happened to a demand that the userguide be fixed?	21:36
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, lol	21:36
Scummer	topless bar sounds better :)	21:36
andre__	timeless_mbp, where, what?	21:36
RevdKathy	General Antilles... did I miss something?	21:36
timeless_mbp	your c7 internal	21:36
timeless_mbp	The current User guide also only covers this vaguely:	21:37
timeless_mbp	"Enter special characters: Press ↗ and the sym key."	21:37
timeless_mbp	"Enter accented characters: ...."	21:37
timeless_mbp	No mentioning of the spacebar in order to get only the symbol.	21:37
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, I've described my adventures in BCN to a lot of people and am a bit worried some of those folks actually think I meant "topless bar".	21:37
andre__	timeless_mbp, don't know	21:37
timeless_mbp	heh	21:37
timeless_mbp	i went to a tapas bar in Madrid	21:37
GeneralAntilles	RevdKathy, only Americans being unused to the concept of tapas bars.	21:37
timeless_mbp	didn't have time for one in BCN	21:37
andre__	timeless, at some point discussing become non-rational :-P	21:37
timeless_mbp	i also was at a tapas bar in AMS	21:37
timeless_mbp	andre__: file a new bug ;-)	21:38
RevdKathy	Gneral Antilles ... you mean you didn't really go to a topless bar and I missed it?	21:38
jebba	would be nice if the "special keys" keypad came up when you PRESSED Fn+Ctrl, not when you RELEASED it :)	21:38
andre__	timeless_mbp, up to you. you have access to the internal tracker.	21:38
GeneralAntilles	RevdKathy, no, no topless bars. ;)	21:38
timeless_mbp	andre__: i have no luck filing bugs internally	21:38
jebba	i use it all the time, yet it seems half the time it doesnt come up	21:38
timeless_mbp	you don't think i'm going to start now	21:38
andre__	timeless_mbp, then you should reflect on what you might do wrong? ;-)	21:39
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saahleh	shouldn't there be a maemo-chat room? ;)	21:39
timeless_mbp	andre__: filing bugs and expecting someone to fix something?	21:39
timeless_mbp	i reflected, and decided it wasn't a good idea	21:39
timeless_mbp	something about a definition of insanity	21:39
* VDVsx also went to a tapas bar in AMS		21:39
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=421358 camkeyd for anybody who missed it the first time.	21:39
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timeless_mbp	repeating an action and expecting differing results	21:39
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andre__	timeless_mbp: maybe changing the tone sometimes? ;-)	21:40
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rrr__	quick question, is the n900 screen supposed to have tearing?	21:41
tigert	GeneralAntilles: camkeyd rocks :)	21:41
tigert	i love it	21:41
tigert	if its the taskswitcher key binder daemon?	21:42
GeneralAntilles	tigert, yes.	21:42
GeneralAntilles	tigert, the proximity sensor project is merging, too.	21:42
GeneralAntilles	So you'll be able to bind both the camkey and the proximity sensor	21:42
GeneralAntilles	I'm likely to bind fullscreen to the proximity sensor.	21:42
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johnsq	Hi	21:43
Raytray	Hi	21:43
timeless_mbp	andre__: i'm a native speaker	21:43
lbt	Stskeeps: now it's downloading a new OS...	21:43
timeless_mbp	my tone fluctuates as i speak :)	21:43
lbt	slowly	21:43
timeless_mbp	rrr__: the n900 can tear if you do certain things	21:44
andre__	timeless_mbp, you want to misunderstand me, yeah. ;-) see PM	21:44
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rrr__	any fast motion will cause it	21:44
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timeless_mbp	your ghost messaged me	21:45
timeless_mbp	that's not fair	21:45
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Stskeeps	lbt: that worries me a tad	21:45
redeeman	rrr__: i see it aswell, which is weird given its composited	21:46
GeneralAntilles	redeeman, 800x480 is a lot of pixels to push around.	21:47
lbt	Stskeeps: 29% now... "Software updates"	21:47
redeeman	GeneralAntilles: but the N900 is a fairly powerful device	21:48
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Stskeeps	lbt: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Status/o2_Joggler	21:50
lbt	reading...	21:50
GeneralAntilles	redeeman, still a lot of pixels.	21:50
lbt	it's not quite what I expected...	21:50
lbt	very solid and hi quality	21:50
Stskeeps	for 99, it's a real bargain	21:51
redeeman	GeneralAntilles: and slower devices have been doing more	21:51
lbt	but very 3D with a BIG polished chrome stand	21:51
lbt	oh yes	21:51
lbt	no battery backup at all - only mains	21:51
Stskeeps	yeah	21:51
Stskeeps	still makes for a nice mer device	21:51
lbt	Oh I have plans...	21:51
lbt	actually the mains thing is almost better for e	21:52
lbt	me	21:52
lbt	I can't think that a new OS will stop hacking though	21:52
Stskeeps	i hope so	21:52
lbt	it's a gorgeous bit of hardware	21:52
lcuk	stop drooling	21:52
lbt	100% perfect for a linux picture frame	21:53
rrr__	another quick question, is the bounce demo supposed to have random clipping issues?	21:53
lbt	now if only I owned openpictureframe.org	21:53
lbt	oh wait, I do.	21:53
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Stskeeps	heh	21:53
lbt	and .com	21:53
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Stskeeps	how many inches was the screen again?	21:54
lbt	same as Q7	21:55
Stskeeps	k	21:55
lbt	my cat just licked my^H^Hyour Joggler	21:56
Stskeeps	:P	21:56
AbstractW	I'm sad I missed out on a $450 N900 from Dell :(	21:56
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Stskeeps	lbt: i demand cat rebate!	21:56
Stskeeps	:P	21:56
Stskeeps	oh nice, there's a stereo plug in the back	21:56
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GeneralAntilles	redeeman, not with the same number of pixels. :)	21:57
GeneralAntilles	redeeman, kthxbai.	21:57
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redeeman	GeneralAntilles: do keep in mind that most of the "juggling" can be done by memory copies, then it obviously needs to write some new stuff, but all in all, i'll bet the device is fully capable of this	21:58
lbt	oops - it's rebooted 4 times now...	21:58
lcuk	wow joggler picture http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Joggle.jpeg/180px-Joggle.jpeg	21:59
Stskeeps	lbt: not abnormal	21:59
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Scummer	geez.. git clone of modest is taking quite a while	22:00
ruskie	and then in the end will even fail to build	22:01
ruskie	atleast it does for me :(	22:01
ruskie	fails during configure	22:01
Stskeeps	lbt: it has an internal mmc too	22:01
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Scummer	ruskie: hm.. interesting..	22:02
Scummer	ruskie: i let you know what happens.. once I've got the source	22:03
Stskeeps	lbt: where does the usb plugs sit? in the back or the side?	22:05
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timeless_mbp	andre__: i lost your bug number/comment reference	22:06
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andre__	timeless_mbp, doesn't matter ;-)	22:06
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timeless_mbp	but i want to read it	22:07
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jkimball4	it might be gps that is causing my n900 to randomly shutoff	22:07
Stskeeps	jkimball4: if you have random reboots, return it to shop and get a replacement seems to be best advice atm	22:08
lbt	side	22:08
jkimball4	worked fine all morning. shortly after i turned on the gps, shut off	22:08
jkimball4	doesn't reboot just shuts off	22:08
jkimball4	Stskeeps: replacement meaning a refurb?	22:08
Stskeeps	jkimball4: no, you have warranty :P	22:08
jkimball4	Actually I sent a message to nokia support. I might just see what the have to say. Seems like dell would just jerk me around about an rma	22:09
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AbstractW	jkimball4: Dell isn't selling the N900 anymore :(	22:09
jkimball4	oh really?	22:09
AbstractW	I missed my chance to get one cheap.	22:09
jkimball4	AbstractW: nay	22:09
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jkimball4	there's another good offer i just saw	22:10
jkimball4	one sec	22:10
Robot101	they're cheap on amazon US too, there's a rebate	22:10
AbstractW	Dell was $450 :(	22:10
Stskeeps	jkimball4: shutting off sounds bad.. and you're sure it's not just the blank screen timer?	22:10
Stskeeps	:P	22:10
jkimball4	AbstractW: you just missed another $450 offer. looks like the offer expired	22:10
jkimball4	http://dealnews.com/Unlocked-Nokia-N900-Cell-Phone-preorders-for-450-after-rebate-free-shipping/334826.html	22:10
AbstractW	Damn.	22:10
jkimball4	oh it was dell, too	22:11
jkimball4	strange	22:11
AbstractW	Its been annoying, because my credit card was recently stolen 3 days ago, and I'm waiting for a replacement.	22:11
AbstractW	I would have ordered already, but I have no way to do so, until I get my new card in the mail! :(	22:11
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AbstractW	><	22:11
jkimball4	Stskeeps: funny. ;)	22:11
Scummer	abstract : physically stolen or the number stolen ?	22:11
Stskeeps	jkimball4: i get tricked at times by it	22:11
AbstractW	Physically stolen, not used before I canceled it.	22:12
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AbstractW	Or lost.	22:12
jkimball4	Stskeeps: I have to remove the battery to get the damn thing to come one after these shut offs	22:12
Scummer	dang	22:12
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AbstractW	Exactly.	22:12
Stskeeps	jkimball4: and you didn't toy with R&D flags?	22:12
jkimball4	don't even know what those are	22:12
AbstractW	So, it looks like I may be shelved with another $150 cost to get one :(	22:12
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Stskeeps	jkimball4: yeah, take it in for repair/warranty	22:12
Stskeeps	if it continues after reflash	22:12
jkimball4	well i haven't reflashed because I'm not sure how to get all my stuff off	22:13
jkimball4	Already have a bunch of pictures and shit	22:13
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Scummer	throw your docs on the sd card ?	22:13
xorAxAx	whats the most expensive offer you have seen for the n900?	22:13
xorAxAx	here is one for 666 EUR	22:13
AbstractW	Doesn't the N900 act as a mass storage device, when connected to a PC?	22:13
Scummer	abstract: either pc suite mode or mass storage	22:14
AbstractW	Scummer: You could always use SSH, to pull your stuff off.	22:14
Scummer	and it shows the sd card as well	22:14
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jkimball4	I guess i could tar up the contents of the mass storage shit	22:14
AbstractW	yeah.	22:14
jkimball4	I'll have to find another computer to do the flashing though	22:14
jkimball4	I'm on Solaris	22:14
jkimball4	no support for flasher on sol	22:14
Stskeeps	jkimball4: heh, i ran into that issue once..	22:14
Stskeeps	:P	22:14
AbstractW	spool up a vbox	22:14
Scummer	run a linux vm in solaris	22:14
Scummer	:)	22:14
jkimball4	i thought about it, but that seems a like a bad idea when flashing my toy	22:15
AbstractW	I'm a big fan of osol.	22:15
AbstractW	I use that for my fileserver.	22:15
AbstractW	zfs is awesome.	22:15
jkimball4	it sure is	22:15
* Stskeeps has a SS-4200E with osol and 4x1tb		22:15
jkimball4	nice	22:15
Stskeeps	never been happier	22:15
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Stskeeps	(cheap, hackable NAS)	22:15
AbstractW	I've got 5x1TB	22:15
AbstractW	RaidZ1	22:16
Stskeeps	yeah, raidz1 here too	22:16
xorAxAx	z1?	22:16
AbstractW	Its RaidZN, where N is the number of spare disks	22:16
Scummer	hmmm	22:16
Stskeeps	well, not exactly, there's also zfs spare disks	22:17
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Stskeeps	N means how many disks you can lose	22:17
Stskeeps	:P	22:17
jkimball4	okay so where do i do warranty stuff if the flashing doesn't work? will they send me a new one first so i'm not phoneless?	22:17
AbstractW	not a true spare, but yeah.	22:17
Stskeeps	jkimball4: talk to nokia care and hear about it	22:17
jkimball4	okay well in their email, they'll hopefully mention that	22:17
AbstractW	jkimball4: You will prolly only be able to get them to send you a new phone, if you temporarially buy a second one.	22:17
jkimball4	i'll just leave gps off for now	22:17
jkimball4	AbstractW: that sounds gay	22:18
AbstractW	yes, it does.	22:18
AbstractW	but, if you're in the US, with no carriers selling that phone, that may be your only option :(	22:18
Scummer	zfs on linux seems to work only with fuse	22:18
jkimball4	zfs on linux is pointless :)	22:18
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jkimball4	and crap tbh	22:19
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jkimball4	the only non-Solaris platform that it is any good on is freebsd	22:19
Stskeeps	jkimball4: it actually works decently for my backup server	22:19
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Stskeeps	for my purposes	22:19
Creteil	hi all	22:19
jkimball4	Stskeeps: it's slower on linux and uses a lot more memory last i heard	22:19
Stskeeps	jkimball4: probably	22:19
AbstractW	oracle is funding btrfs for linux...	22:19
jkimball4	I mean, why would you want zfs on linux anyway?hehe	22:19
AbstractW	which is supposed to be oracle's zfs on linux	22:19
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Scummer	kimball: my htpc runs linux.. but so far soft raid5 with ext4 does work ok	22:20
jkimball4	bleeding edge ext4 eh	22:20
jkimball4	hehe	22:20
Stskeeps	jkimball4: hw support comes to mind, or working SMART for SATA	22:20
AbstractW	RaidZ1 > Raid5	22:20
Stskeeps	:P	22:20
Scummer	:)	22:20
AbstractW	zpool export ; zpool import ; for super easy migration.	22:21
Zeddy	cmooon	22:21
Scummer	mpf	22:21
jkimball4	AbstractW: yeha that shit rocks !	22:21
lbt	hmm, we're going for about the 5th reboot/sw upgrade in a row on this joggler.... not impressed	22:21
* fnordianslip has a bright pink conky running in scratchbox. uurgh		22:21
Creteil	someone can explain me why the extra-devel constantly fall in error on my N900 ???	22:21
jkimball4	it's missing a hash	22:22
Creteil	what is the right way to add the extras-devel ?	22:22
jkimball4	you probably did it right	22:22
Scummer	i used app manager for it	22:22
Scummer	worked without any probs	22:22
Creteil	jkimball4, any fix ?	22:22
AbstractW	Anyone else find a $500 N900? I want a $500 N900, not a $600 N900 :(	22:22
Stskeeps	lbt: it probably does them iteratively	22:22
Scummer	whats the price at newegg now ?	22:23
Stskeeps	lbt: is it connected to eth?	22:23
AbstractW	hrmm. haven't checked	22:23
lbt	it has a phone number...	22:23
Stskeeps	or wifi	22:23
lbt	wifi	22:23
AbstractW	newegg is $600	22:23
Scummer	:/	22:23
jkimball4	Creteil: it's a server thing not a local thing agaik	22:23
Scummer	all the 500$ deals are gone it seems	22:23
AbstractW	shitsticks.	22:23
jkimball4	all i want is the flac plugin	22:23
GeneralAntilles	lol, Amazon's up to $800.	22:24
Scummer	ouch	22:24
jkimball4	gah	22:24
Creteil	jkimball4, ok, so why the server admin's doesn't fix it (I'm probably not the only user reporting this issue ...) ?	22:24
jkimball4	free market at work i guess	22:24
AbstractW	Nokia's website sells it for $610 or so.	22:24
jkimball4	Creteil: no idea. :) but i agree that it's frustrating	22:24
Creteil	jkimball4, for sure ;-)	22:25
AbstractW	Direct from Nokia is $569... but its out of stock ><	22:25
jkimball4	Creteil: it looks to be working for me	22:25
jkimball4	have you tried recently?	22:25
Creteil	jkimball4, for flac just apt-get install flac must work no ?	22:25
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jkimball4	i didn't want to drive into the terminal for that	22:26
AbstractW	haha.	22:26
jkimball4	needed root, but didn't feel like installing gainroot	22:26
AbstractW	I'd try it.	22:26
AbstractW	whats the default root password for the N900?	22:26
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Scummer	booyah.. modest clone is done	22:26
Creteil	jkimball4, btw in terminal you can see explicitely why things doesn't install ...	22:26
AbstractW	If apt doesn't find flac, just add the stable deb repository.	22:26
AbstractW	but, that could cause other problems.	22:27
Creteil	jkimball4, go ahead install it and go to the terminal ...	22:27
slonopotamus	very funny	22:27
AbstractW	I don't think I'd try an apt-get dist-upgrade :P	22:27
hardaker	yay. got my extras repository contributor invite.	22:27
hardaker	AbstractW: there isn't a default.	22:27
slonopotamus	n900 advertises ovi but can't sync to it	22:27
AbstractW	Then just add a new deb source to your sources.lst	22:27
wazd	I should stop or I'll drink to death :D	22:27
* slonopotamus requests proper syncml support for n900		22:28
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Stskeeps	wazd: drunk on a thursday first? ;)	22:28
AbstractW	with no affordable N900, I'm stuck with this freaking iphone for a few more weeks.	22:28
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wazd	Stskeeps: I always have the reason :D	22:29
Stskeeps	wazd: "no n900 leads to alcoholism"?	22:29
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AbstractW	Then I need a N900 sooner.	22:29
jkimball4	hmm where the hell is flac	22:29
AbstractW	I want my alcoholism NOW	22:30
wazd	Stskeeps: continuous humiliation leads :)	22:30
AbstractW	jkimball4: you didn't try 'apt-get install flac' ?	22:30
jkimball4	looking in app manager	22:30
Creteil	AbstractW, don't complain, mine was buy at 662€ (974$ approx)	22:30
AbstractW	Ouch.	22:30
wazd	Stskeeps: not yet alcoholism but really shitty mood for sure :)	22:30
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AbstractW	I'm complaining, because I missed out :P	22:31
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jkimball4	oh it's in the ogg package	22:31
* RevdKathy send wazd chocolate instead of beer		22:31
Scummer	kimball : flac support ?	22:31
jkimball4	yep	22:31
AbstractW	yes.	22:31
Scummer	nice	22:31
jkimball4	i don't know about you guys but i can get on at&t's 3g network	22:31
AbstractW	ogg is a container.	22:31
Creteil	AbstractW, Ouch <- not really, since I manage all the gsm phone at my office, I have the device offered by the operator ...	22:31
wazd	RevdKathy: I like chocolate so much but I can't eat it :D	22:31
jkimball4	have to tell the thing manually though	22:31
AbstractW	jkimball4: There have been reports that the N900 doesn't work with ATT's 3G.	22:32
RevdKathy	wazd no choc? how do you survive?	22:32
wazd	RevdKathy: beer :D	22:32
RST38h	FBReader takes forever to build =(	22:32
jkimball4	AbstractW: it works. I made a call yesterday and was surfing the net at same time. definitely had wifi off	22:32
Scummer	hopefully t-mo rolls out their new network next year like announced.. 7mbit DL would be awesome	22:32
slonopotamus	btw	22:32
AbstractW	Hrmm. Well, I hate ATT.	22:32
RevdKathy	wazd: not the same	22:32
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jkimball4	Tmobile fully covers my city, but they don't offer service here O_o	22:33
AbstractW	ATT drops calls all the time.	22:33
Scummer	that is odd	22:33
AbstractW	I'll be switching to TMobile.	22:33
jkimball4	Scummer: bs really	22:33
slonopotamus	i got gps fix without data connection in ovi maps	22:33
Scummer	so far i like the n900 on t-mobile.. my laptop is tethered, i get 1.5Mbit down and can make calls at the same time	22:33
hardaker	AbstractW: the N900 doesn't work on ATT's 3G, FYI. I have it and only get edge.	22:33
hardaker	the freq coverage range for the N900 doesn't include ATT's band	22:33
AbstractW	I'm wondering how long before someone ports multi-touch to the N900, and google maps.	22:33
range	AbstractW: Porting new hardware could be a bit problematic.	22:34
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AbstractW	Multi-touch isn't new hardware.	22:34
range	Aha.	22:34
AbstractW	Unless you need a capacative touch screen, instead of resistive.	22:34
jkimball4	hardaker: if you switch to manual nework selection you may be able to get 3g. it's working here	22:34
wazd	RevdKathy: yeah, I know :( I remember when I was eating Toblerone long ago :)	22:34
hardaker	I think I tried that when I first got it and it said it failed.	22:35
SpeedEvil	AbstractW: you do	22:35
SpeedEvil	AbstractW: the resistive screen in the n900 can't do multitouch	22:35
RevdKathy	wazd.. bournville dark... ah!	22:35
hardaker	I suspect you're not really on AT&T's network unless they hid the fact they bumped the data radio frequencies up	22:35
Scummer	toblerone... good stuff	22:35
hardaker	(down actually; the cut-off was higher than the AT&T band)	22:35
jkimball4	multitouch on my old iphone was cute, but it was really only useful for a handful of things	22:35
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jkimball4	hardaker: don't know. it says at&t still.	22:36
wazd	RevdKathy: you got it :)	22:36
hardaker	what's it say underneath the bars?	22:36
RevdKathy	wazd :)	22:36
hardaker	2.5 or 3?	22:36
lcuk	how do i find out which package a certain file comes from	22:37
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Scummer	the n900 does get warm when tethering over usb. no cpu load tho.. maybe the radio is working hard ? :)	22:37
hardaker	dpkg -s FILE I think (ie, from memory)	22:38
range	-S	22:38
fnordianslip	uurgh. bright pink conky on my N900: http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/screenshot02.png	22:38
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SpeedEvil	fnordianslip: you need http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-PINK-HYBRID-HARD-COVER-RUBBER-CASE-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ150394071202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item23042f68a2	22:38
SpeedEvil	and you've got a theme going on	22:38
fnordianslip	nooo	22:39
wazd	RevdKathy: I have one question for you btw :)	22:39
Scummer	wow	22:39
range	fnordianslip: What are those three blocks to the right side of the wifi thingy?	22:39
SpeedEvil	range: load meter applet	22:39
wazd	RevdKathy: how come maemo and toy bears were combined in a single body? :D	22:39
fnordianslip	load-applet i think	22:39
RevdKathy	wazd: ?? go ahead	22:39
SpeedEvil	range: extras-devel I think	22:39
AbstractW	mmm hot pkn	22:39
AbstractW	pink	22:39
range	SpeedEvil: Ah.	22:39
SpeedEvil	range: cpu and ram usage iIRC	22:39
Gadgetoid_iMac	SpeedEvil: are there any serious N900 cases out there?	22:39
RevdKathy	wazd.. you mean me? I have a wide, wide range of interests. maemo and bears are just a couple of them	22:40
range	Gadgetoid_iMac: Wasn't that serious enough?	22:40
AbstractW	Gadgetoid_iMac: Whats NOT serious about that?	22:40
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AbstractW	Its SERIOUSLY pink!	22:40
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: I've got one that I don't really like that much	22:40
Scummer	serisouly!	22:40
AbstractW	for serious	22:40
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: but mostly does what it says on the tin	22:40
Gadgetoid_iMac	I must admit it's strikingly pink, but I like leather	22:40
AbstractW	I think I should get a pink case for my phone.	22:40
fnordianslip	shall i see if i can get conky into extras as my first proper effort	22:40
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Myrtti	PPPPIIINNKKK	22:40
Gadgetoid_iMac	Wait... is leather better or worse than pink?	22:41
Myrtti	you're setting off my hilight	22:41
SpeedEvil	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190353399122&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT	22:41
Scummer	gadgetoid: kinky	22:41
AbstractW	I dislike the cases that are glued on leather to hard plastic.	22:41
wazd	RevdKathy: good for you :)	22:41
range	Gadgetoid_iMac: Pink leather?	22:41
AbstractW	The leather comes off ><	22:41
SpeedEvil	my current case.	22:41
RevdKathy	Scummer - pink leather?	22:41
Gadgetoid_iMac	range: I think I might have a pink leather iPhone case somewhere	22:41
SpeedEvil	The protector is OK, the case has some sharp edges which need sanding	22:41
Gadgetoid_iMac	SpeedEvil: that one looks 'shopped	22:41
Creteil	jkimball4, http://pastebin.com/d656d5792	22:41
AbstractW	I'd say that a screen protector is required on a plastic screen.	22:41
Creteil	jkimball4, just use the console ...	22:41
Gadgetoid_iMac	Looks like I'm going to have to start whining at Proporta to deliver a viable N900 case	22:42
AbstractW	Creteil: Sweet.	22:42
jkimball4	what am i using the console for?	22:42
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: looking at the actual case - the pics are a fairly accurate reflection	22:42
AbstractW	jkimball4: Installing flac :P	22:42
Creteil	jkimball4, to install flac support ..	22:42
Gadgetoid_iMac	OH wait, it's on their radar	22:42
RevdKathy	Golla bags - little soft pouches for n900 in a range of colours	22:42
jkimball4	oh. i already got it installed.	22:42
jkimball4	haven't tested though	22:42
Gadgetoid_iMac	http://www.proporta.com/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=4883&t_mode=des	22:42
jkimball4	all my audio is at home. :(	22:42
Creteil	jkimball4, ah ... ok ...	22:43
AbstractW	jkimball4: Test from any random flac file on the internet.	22:43
Gadgetoid_iMac	Although having tried many of Proporta's aluminium lined leather cases, and appreciating them for their protectiveness I can comfortably say that I much prefer slip cases	22:43
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AbstractW	Stitched leather, just doesn't stand up to a beating like hard plastic does on a phone case.	22:43
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Scummer	i have a krussell case.. but it is a tight fit	22:44
Gadgetoid_iMac	AbstractW: I don't often beat my cases...	22:44
red	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190353399122&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT	22:44
red	can one purchase these from finland somewhere?	22:44
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AbstractW	red: get the pink one.	22:45
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SpeedEvil	red: search n900 crystal on ebay.fi or wherever it is.	22:45
SpeedEvil	red: probably	22:45
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Gadgetoid_iMac	red rocket!	22:46
red	don't really fancy ebay but guess I don't have a choice	22:46
jkimball4	Creteil: thanks for the pointers, though	22:46
Gadgetoid_iMac	You do, red, wait.	22:46
AbstractW	hell yes! microsoft finally corrected their FOSS violation! http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/12/microsoft-finally-open-sources-windows-7-tool.ars	22:46
redeeman	except they actually didn't	22:47
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jkimball4	shall we start a license flame war? ;p	22:47
range	I have a leather pouch. That should be enough.	22:47
redeeman	they should have released the code used to generate the actual binary they distributed, where they instead choose to rewrite some parts and release that code, since they didn't wanna release the original	22:47
Gadgetoid_iMac	Holy shit, why does every advert have to play La Roux's sodding song	22:47
AbstractW	redeeman: Oh, damn.	22:47
AbstractW	suck.	22:47
jkimball4	Gadgetoid_iMac: adblock	22:47
jkimball4	and noscript	22:48
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Gadgetoid_iMac	jkimball4: Errr.... on the telly?	22:48
redeeman	AbstractW: hardly a surprise though, considering who it is	22:48
range	Gadgetoid_iMac: Sure :)	22:48
RevdKathy	I have someone askingwhat happened to the fm radio - it's no longer available for d/l. Anyone know why?	22:48
Gadgetoid_iMac	I'm too lazy to fast forward	22:48
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jkimball4	ah well if you're not willing to expend energy to avoid them, i can't help you ;)	22:48
lcuk	RevdKathy, there was unfortunately a bug relating to fm radio intefering with the mic	22:49
AbstractW	RevdKathy: The N900 has a FM reciever?	22:49
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lcuk	and whilst its resolved its just been removed	22:49
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SpeedEvil	AbstractW: yes	22:49
Gadgetoid_iMac	You could do it for me jkimball4... you could dance a little jig to distract my every time an annoying advert plays	22:49
lcuk	yes AbstractW	22:49
AbstractW	cool.	22:49
RevdKathy	I saw that and assumed it was that, lcuk. Will it be coming back?	22:49
SpeedEvil	AbstractW: and a transmitter	22:49
AbstractW	oh, very cool.	22:49
Scummer	ls	22:49
lcuk	i imagine it will yes	22:49
Scummer	oops	22:49
AbstractW	Has anyone gotten the transmitter to work with an automobile?	22:49
Gadgetoid_iMac	AbstractW: the FM transmitter sucks :D	22:49
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lcuk	yes abstract	22:49
AbstractW	to be expected.	22:49
RevdKathy	lcuk. Good. That's what I guessed at and replied	22:49
lcuk	:)	22:50
Gadgetoid_iMac	You could always duct tape your N900 to the car ariel, that MIGHT give you a clear signal	22:50
lcuk	i saw the sheepdog thread :D its sparked lots of interest	22:50
* RevdKathy may be beginning to regret the pm link in my sig at t.m.o		22:50
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lcuk	lol RevdKathy	22:50
RevdKathy	lcuk - yes the question is how to take the sheepdog further	22:50
lcuk	rEv9, could you please change your nick	22:50
lcuk	you are getting in the way of me speaking to kathy	22:50
lcuk	i was playing around last night actually kath	22:51
lcuk	i was trying to make he particles errr sheep move over an undulating field	22:51
RevdKathy	lcuk: do you need to tell us that in IRC O_o	22:51
lcuk	without much luck lol	22:51
GeneralAntilles	RevdKathy, yeah, encouraging people to PM you is never porductive. ;)	22:51
lcuk	its ok RevdKathy have you noticed the sex thread got administerated?	22:52
rEv9	lcuk: eh, what?	22:52
AbstractW	You have to be kidding me.	22:52
AbstractW	http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/51934/The-Daily-Slop-Model-Plays-WoW-Stoned-And-Naked	22:52
RevdKathy	General Antilles - I've made lots of freinds, but they seem to think I err.. know stuff	22:52
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lcuk	lol rEv9 i type "re[tab]" and your nick comes up every time	22:52
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odin_	what this VMWARE rubbish idea for mobiles?	22:52
lcuk	so i have to delete and reenter :D	22:52
Gadgetoid_iMac	Ooo I'm slightly drunk on shandy, quaffed from a classic pint mug	22:52
RevdKathy	lcuk - yeah that thread got nuked right after I suggested it should form the basis for a workshop at the next long weekend	22:52
AbstractW	odin_: What? You want to get VMWare running on your N900? :P	22:52
lcuk	:O	22:53
lcuk	no wonder lol	22:53
rEv9	lcuk: if you change your irc client to a more decent one it actually remembers the last client you talked to and prefer that one when you use tab :)	22:53
Gadgetoid_iMac	odin_: they want to run two shitty OSes on their phones instead of one, obviously	22:53
odin_	AbstractW, no friggin way.... not util my N900 sports 2Ghz CPU and 2Gb RAM	22:53
Gadgetoid_iMac	Their justification for VMWARE on phones is hilarious to say the least	22:53
lcuk	rEv9, cool idea!	22:53
RevdKathy	Perhaps we should stick to talking about sheep	22:53
lcuk	its the little things that count	22:53
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rEv9	last nick	22:53
rEv9	*	22:53
Ceron^	how am i suppoused to create album covers	22:54
Ceron^	on the n900?	22:54
Ceron^	:l	22:54
lcuk	yeah kathy	22:54
Ceron^	could anyone tell	22:54
Gadgetoid_iMac	I mean, it's exactly like me using VMWare on my MBP to "Sandbox" my work environment.. it just isn't going to happen until virtualisation is 100% efficient... which is impossible, argh!	22:54
RevdKathy	the admins don't seem to mind that	22:54
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* RevdKathy thinks some people have no sense of hmour		22:54
Gadgetoid_iMac	Ceron^: you're listening to music, what the hell do you want album covers for!? I'll never understand that	22:54
RevdKathy	we need a designer to draw us some good sheep	22:55
lcuk	i dont think its a lack of humour	22:55
Ceron^	well i just want it to look fancy	22:55
Ceron^	thats all	22:55
lcuk	i tihnk it was people pointing out it was just about the best thread ever	22:55
Ceron^	when showing the phone to friends O_o?	22:55
Ceron^	like some iphone guy	22:55
Ceron^	´lol	22:55
Myrtti	Gadgetoid_iMac: I'm a visual person and can tell albums apart better from the album covers than the music, sometimes	22:55
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RevdKathy	lcuk: LOL I thought it was upholding the stereotype of geeks and nerds	22:55
lcuk	Ceron^, liqflow makes people go "ooooh" quite a lot :)	22:55
Myrtti	visual aids	22:55
Ceron^	how are the album covers made	22:55
Ceron^	lcuk: i dont understand liqflow	22:56
Ceron^	i cant get it to work	22:56
Ceron^	;/	22:56
lcuk	and the accelerometer stuff gives people ideas :)	22:56
Gadgetoid_iMac	Myrtti: then I envy your musical knowledge... I can just about guess an artist from the album cover	22:56
lcuk	if you have an n810 that might explain it	22:56
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Ceron^	lcuk: i got 900	22:56
Ceron^	n900	22:56
RevdKathy	lcuk is liqflow actually available for download? Is it Mo-safe?	22:56
Ceron^	bought one	22:56
lcuk	"mo-safe"?	22:56
lcuk	its in extras-testing	22:56
Gadgetoid_iMac	liqflow? that's what you do when your girlfriend is on her... err... nevermind	22:56
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RevdKathy	Safe enough for My Mo, given that I don't know how to undo stuff	22:56
Ceron^	i got liqbase.playground	22:56
lcuk	and has mainly +ve stars :)	22:57
Ceron^	do i need anything else?	22:57
lcuk	Ceron^, thats why lol	22:57
Ceron^	what?	22:57
Ceron^	O_o	22:57
lcuk	thats not ready for human consumption	22:57
Ceron^	oh :D	22:57
lcuk	its too much power for one person	22:57
lcuk	and its got many bugs	22:57
Gadgetoid_iMac	I put liqbase on my n810 and it esploded	22:57
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Ceron^	i loved the beer widget	22:57
Ceron^	thing	22:57
Ceron^	i found in there	22:57
Ceron^	with cpu meter thing + beer	22:57
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20090710_002210.lib.holymoly.png	22:58
lcuk	where was it	22:58
RevdKathy	I'm not afraid of d/ling from other repositories - I have Xchat. ;) But I need reassurance that things won;t harm My Mo. Rough UI I don't care about	22:58
lcuk	liqflow on its own is nice and simple :)	22:58
lcuk	and works well	22:58
AbstractW	xchat is bad.	22:58
AbstractW	use bitchx :P	22:58
RevdKathy	liqflow is the one with the movey flowing lights, yes?	22:58
AbstractW	<3 console	22:58
* Gadgetoid_iMac downloads liqflow		22:59
lcuk	yes	22:59
Gadgetoid_iMac	xchat is cool, it's got an x in it!	22:59
AbstractW	http://ve3dmedia.ign.com/images/06/38/63800_sexystormtrooper_orig.jpg	22:59
RevdKathy	lcuk - the one I want for sensory work with people with learning diffs	22:59
AbstractW	I missed those troopers.	22:59
lcuk	i need to update that this week	22:59
* lcuk nods at RevdKathy		22:59
RevdKathy	lcuk - how big can you get a touch screen to play that on????	22:59
lcuk	i would love to have massive size :$	22:59
pwnguin	RevdKathy: im pretty sure liqflow is open source	23:00
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RevdKathy	I would settled for 15 inch that someone could reach out and touch. Could see it really working for LD sensory rooms	23:00
pwnguin	RevdKathy: probelm is that it does wrap around rather than source sink	23:01
solpete	I think software development has been slow	23:01
solpete	for n900	23:01
RevdKathy	pwnguin... err I don't understand that!	23:01
lcuk	pwnguin, ??	23:01
* RevdKathy is very very new to all this		23:01
lcuk	what do you mean	23:01
pwnguin	if you set up a contour	23:01
pwnguin	rather than distorting a field of falling particles	23:02
pwnguin	it slowly forms a narrow stream	23:02
lcuk	it does now, or you would want it to?	23:02
Arkenoi	4 destkops is not enough :-( i'd prefer more to slide up and down	23:02
pwnguin	thats what it does now	23:02
lcuk	thats befcause of the wrap, you are right	23:03
RevdKathy	Ooh! All sorts of things in extras-testing... MUST RESIST!	23:03
range	zap	23:03
pwnguin	lcuk: if you treated the top as a particle source and the bottom as a particle sink	23:03
lcuk	the very first version i had, once a particle goes off screen, i had it teleporting and regenerating in a random place	23:03
solpete	RevdKathy where can I view extras content online?	23:03
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lcuk	pwnguin, but then where would the flow go	23:03
Gadgetoid_iMac	liqtorch is so awesome	23:03
lcuk	i know what you are saying	23:03
lcuk	perpendicular forces#	23:04
pwnguin	lcuk: it'd still flow, right?	23:04
lcuk	doubtful	23:04
lcuk	it would push away in a group	23:04
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pwnguin	or rather, it would cause a distortion field	23:04
lcuk	its reasonably easy to test	23:04
RevdKathy	solpete: standard extras are here: http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/	23:04
pwnguin	ever seen that old warp screensaver?	23:04
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lcuk	yeah but im wondering how it would help	23:04
lcuk	with perception it would be crapo	23:04
lcuk	cos you would draw	23:04
lcuk	and it wouldnt do what you expect	23:04
pwnguin	i guess we're just after different things	23:05
lcuk	it would be counter inuitive for live motion	23:05
RevdKathy	Damn you lcuk! Now I shal never get any work donw!	23:05
lcuk	:) RevdKathy	23:05
range	Gadgetoid_iMac: Yeah, but I'd like to have a button for the LED Flash.	23:05
lcuk	how do you think i feel!	23:05
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lcuk	pwnguin,	23:06
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lcuk	if you have liqflow source, you can alter it simply	23:06
solpete	RevdKathy cant fint it	23:06
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RevdKathy	lcuk - it's like playing with fairy lights!	23:06
pwnguin	lcuk: true.	23:06
lcuk	if you grab it, ill show you how to rotate the force by 90degrees	23:06
woglinde	he lcuk	23:06
pwnguin	im not sure what the 90 degree thing would do	23:07
lcuk	"use the force"	23:07
lcuk	well it would	23:07
woglinde	some sdk+ developer here?	23:07
lcuk	cos for stuff on one side of the line it would push	23:07
Gadgetoid_iMac	range: agreed!	23:07
lcuk	and for stuff on the other it would pull	23:07
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range	Gadgetoid_iMac: And then complain that battery life sucks :)	23:07
lcuk	which is exactly what you said	23:07
lcuk	and can be done by changing 2 variables	23:07
Gadgetoid_iMac	range: I don't think I'd use it THAT often	23:07
lcuk	button for LED flash has to go inside the camera app	23:08
lcuk	i want led when im using camera	23:08
lcuk	and if it happens to be useful anywhere else	23:08
lcuk	you still need to open lens	23:08
lcuk	which opens camera	23:08
lcuk	which has torch icon	23:08
lcuk	nothing else will do for me, sorry	23:08
Gadgetoid_iMac	kinda makes sense lcuk, having a separate app just to light the camera LEDs up is a bit... overkill	23:08
lcuk	especially when ALL the code is in the camera itself already	23:09
lcuk	and the camera app has to run at that time	23:09
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lcuk	qed	23:09
plr_	is it possible to paste into xterm in n900?	23:10
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pwnguin	i wonder though, if you can drive the LED from safe torch to flash	23:10
range	Well. Brainstorm!!!!	23:10
Stskeeps	pwnguin: if you hack the kernel you can probably overload it	23:10
Stskeeps	i found the place somewhere	23:10
pwnguin	or if flash is expecting a on / off cycle	23:10
range	plr_: Yes. If you have something in the buffer, you can paste it via the bar at the top of xterm.	23:11
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woglinde	range I wondered if there is some shortcuts	23:11
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lcuk	RevdKathy, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/liqflow/0.1.1/	23:11
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lcuk	if you are testing it, please verify that it operates :)	23:12
lcuk	hey javispedro	23:12
woglinde	re javis	23:12
javispedro	hiyo lcuk	23:12
javispedro	hi woglinde	23:12
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RevdKathy	I will test it tonight and vote properly tomorrow :)	23:12
range	woglinde: ctrl-v/-c doesn't work, it seems.	23:12
woglinde	range jupp	23:12
woglinde	same as in diablo	23:12
lcuk	roger \o	23:12
woglinde	lcuk?	23:13
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range	woglinde: No idea. I only had an n800 which had no real ctrl-c/-v :)	23:13
javispedro	lcuk: now I have to agree with you, the n900 is too fast :)	23:13
plr_	range: true, thanks. I thought I had, but apparently did not	23:13
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lcuk	woglinde, are you called roger?	23:13
lcuk	javispedro, :)	23:13
javispedro	please slow it down! :)	23:13
* javispedro plans to underclock		23:13
RevdKathy	lcuk: though I seem to run out of lights. They all run away from me after a few minutes	23:13
javispedro	lets see if that improves battery life, I guess not though.	23:13
lcuk	they vanish down a blackhole/sink	23:14
lcuk	clear them	23:14
lcuk	using the little button in the bottom corner	23:14
lcuk	/sheeppen	23:14
Gadgetoid_iMac	I intensely dislike IE6	23:14
RevdKathy	lcuk the little button restarts it	23:14
lcuk	it dislikesyou too	23:14
javispedro	you're running ie6 on a imac?	23:14
javispedro	that's evil.	23:14
lcuk	ahhh you want to clea just the particles, but not the lines	23:14
Gadgetoid_iMac	Nah javispedro, I'm remote desktopping into my PC, which is running it in VirtualPC	23:14
* lcuk will make sure thats in the ui		23:14
lcuk	on the next one	23:14
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woglinde	javispedro hm I thought last oe version on mac was 5	23:15
lcuk	we were discussing it at the weekend	23:15
woglinde	args ie	23:15
RevdKathy	lcuk - no I just pressed the other corner and it all cleared! but I don't see a button there	23:15
Gadgetoid_iMac	My Mac would explode into flames if I tried to run IE on it	23:15
lcuk	and i have layouts and notes about the required preferences, or some of them	23:15
lcuk	i could do with continuing the discussion	23:15
lcuk	ahhhh RevdKathy then its a bug	23:15
Gadgetoid_iMac	Running it on a computer that's safely tucked away upstairs on the other side of the house seems like an appropriate precaution	23:15
lcuk	do not vote it up :)	23:15
lcuk	i will cure	23:15
javispedro	hm.. my n900 is doing weird things right now	23:15
javispedro	the icd2 icon is blinking but it's definitely connected and apps know it	23:16
* pwnguin looks up the name of that DS homebrew particle system		23:16
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RevdKathy	lcuk: I see the little green 'back' arrow, but no button in the bottom right. Pressing there works to reset - but I don't actually see what I'm pressing	23:16
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lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liqflow_test.AVI	23:16
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lcuk	RevdKathy, then the graphic for the button is missing, its a bug	23:16
lcuk	theres meant to be one	23:17
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lcuk	pwnguin, cool	23:17
lcuk	more toys	23:17
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RevdKathy	lcuk! aha! no, no icon	23:17
RevdKathy	it's like dancing in a snowstorm in the warm	23:17
javispedro	"The door resists! The door resists! The door opens". Do people really play this?	23:18
lcuk	i gather that wouldnt have much of an effect for you!	23:18
lcuk	you could stand in the rain and not get wet	23:18
pwnguin	javispedro: kick the door down!	23:19
SpeedEvil	javispedro: I personally prefer the ascii port	23:19
RevdKathy	lcuk: me? Why? I get cold and wet. But I love your snowstorm	23:19
SpeedEvil	err - version	23:19
valdyn	javispedro: look up nethack at wikipedia	23:19
lcuk	:D	23:19
SpeedEvil	telnet nethack.alt.org	23:19
lcuk	RevdKathy, i just like to clear it and twist and tilt the device, i think it looks like rain	23:19
SpeedEvil	there are a dozen ormore games in progress at most times	23:19
SpeedEvil	that you can watch	23:19
lcuk	at the maemo weekend they worked through graphical nethack i think	23:19
woglinde	qt gles nethack?	23:20
SpeedEvil	42 even	23:20
javispedro	.. vulture's eye.	23:20
lcuk	with accelerometer controls	23:20
xorAxAx	i am running the sdk and the app man is neither showing icons nor descriptions, how can i fix that?	23:20
lcuk	"app man"	23:20
SpeedEvil	javispedro: I find the interface confuses the underlying game mechanics.	23:20
xorAxAx	app manager	23:21
SpeedEvil	javispedro: but then again - some want gooey.	23:21
RevdKathy	lcuk: I could see this being very big in therapy	23:21
lcuk	RevdKathy, its very theraputic to me already	23:21
lcuk	that video i posted up there	23:21
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liqflow_test.AVI	23:21
lcuk	was done about 10 minutes after i made it	23:21
lcuk	ive wanted to do it for years	23:21
RevdKathy	lcuk - yes, but for people with learning difficuties, depression, anxiety	23:22
lcuk	and knew how it could work (it uses the same stars engine from original liqbase)	23:22
lcuk	i can bet i have all 3 of those at different times ;)	23:22
RevdKathy	LOL me too	23:22
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RevdKathy	I could sell this tomorrow to these people: http://www.sensoryproject.com/	23:23
lcuk	yeah you said	23:23
lcuk	theres some polishing work going on in the next few weeks	23:23
RevdKathy	or whole walls of it in rompa rooms	23:23
javispedro	SpeedEvil: have to agree, I think the interface is kind of hiding which kind of game is this one	23:23
lcuk	but i need to get together again with some of the folks from maemo-ui to make sure we get everything right	23:24
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lcuk	but then there will be a really slick nicely tuned app	23:24
SpeedEvil	javispedro: telnet nethack.alt.org and watch some games. It's an insanely involved game IMO. I still come back to it after >20 years.	23:24
RevdKathy	compared with your vid, I a only seeing the one icon	23:24
lcuk	yeah	23:25
pwnguin	http://dl.qj.net/nintendo-ds/homebrew-games/world-of-sand-ds-v10.html	23:25
RevdKathy	It will be beautiful.	23:25
* lcuk nods		23:25
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Arkenoi	seems that rss reader has no fullscreen mode on n900?	23:25
lcuk	the same technology is being built into sheepdog	23:25
pwnguin	sadly, no source	23:25
RevdKathy	It's alread beautiful, but you need the UI stuff like the load screen: the actual app is gorgeous	23:25
RevdKathy	Great! Woof!	23:25
* lcuk nods		23:26
xorAxAx	repo.m.org is so slow	23:26
lcuk	im not gonna do the graphics or anything lol	23:26
woglinde	xorAxAx yo	23:26
lcuk	but ill make sure the app can be built on	23:26
RevdKathy	I wondered about creating one of those games where you have to get a bal-bearing up a spiral mountain	23:26
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lcuk	i was just thinking of starting with the box holes version	23:26
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RevdKathy	I was wondering whether Samantha could draw us some sheep	23:26
lcuk	if they want big heavy 3d ones it will need the big heavy 3d engine	23:27
lcuk	heh	23:27
RevdKathy	do you think she would	23:27
lcuk	probably	23:27
lcuk	someone would	23:27
woglinde	lol	23:27
lcuk	theres lots of interest already	23:27
RevdKathy	I think it only needs little cute sheep (or Qt sheep)	23:27
lcuk	i might even make a specific liqbase sketch app	23:27
lcuk	"draw us a sheep"	23:27
clmntch	hello	23:27
RevdKathy	able to lower their heads to eat and lift their tails to poop	23:27
lcuk	and let em be uploaded	23:27
lcuk	ask in the chan for sheep graphics	23:28
lcuk	see what people send you	23:28
lcuk	ideas for in game graphics	23:28
RevdKathy	how would I do that?	23:28
lcuk	get em to hand draw em/ made em themselves	23:28
fnordianslip	each sheep should be unique and have a name	23:28
woglinde	blog post	23:28
lcuk	"hi, to take this further, draw us some sheepy graphics"	23:28
RevdKathy	My nephew draws sheep	23:28
lcuk	"titles in game graphics etc"	23:28
RevdKathy	t.m.o?	23:28
lcuk	yeah why not	23:29
lcuk	:)	23:29
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lcuk	then there will be a load of different alternative graphics for use in whichever sheepy games we have	23:29
RevdKathy	fnordianship - working towards a really advanced version where the sheep have ear-tags and you have to get each sheep in the right pen	23:29
zs	how can I download all examples from https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/ in one go?	23:29
pwnguin	just take a picture of sheep and magic wand it ;)	23:29
lcuk	the paths that people try to make the sheep may allow multiple games to be made	23:29
lcuk	yeah pwnguin if you want	23:29
* fnordianslip wants a sheepipede		23:29
RevdKathy	Ok.. I'll post in general!	23:29
lcuk	just let people be creative	23:29
lcuk	:)	23:29
clmntch	do they sell dvi switch boxes?	23:30
lcuk	just extend the same thread or something	23:30
RevdKathy	I was also wondering about going to a sheep farm with a sound recorder...	23:30
lcuk	its no hassle	23:30
lcuk	and easy to do	23:30
RevdKathy	for some baaas	23:30
clmntch	whoops wrong channel	23:30
lcuk	hahaha	23:30
lcuk	go with graphics, people like to be creative	23:30
RevdKathy	needs a bit of background baaing	23:30
lcuk	ask for any sort of things which might be usable in a sheep related game	23:30
RevdKathy	ok, I will :)	23:30
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lcuk	they will end up with a style that works and suits	23:31
RevdKathy	I'll post in general in case people (like me) don' venture into games very often	23:31
SpeedEvil	lcuk: just add sheep to bounce	23:31
lcuk	and some one else might even make a game engine for em to use em	23:31
lcuk	everyone wins	23:31
RevdKathy	sounds good!	23:31
lcuk	yeah SpeedEvil	23:31
RevdKathy	ok, I'll do that in the morning	23:31
lcuk	cool!	23:31
SpeedEvil	lcuk: imagine smacking them through the air, and them splashing in the water!	23:31
SpeedEvil	With cool ripple effects!	23:31
lcuk	SpeedEvil, you start making the game then	23:31
RevdKathy	meawhile, I'm going to take those snoflakes to bed: got a day learning to get out of strangleholds tomorrow	23:31
lcuk	you will have some graphics tomorrow night	23:31
RevdKathy	great! thanks for the help	23:32
lcuk	no prob kathy :) sleep well	23:32
RevdKathy	Goodnight all!	23:32
RevdKathy	I will :)	23:32
RevdKathy	and dream of sheep and snowflakes	23:32
fnordianslip	could call it "ruminat rescue" or similar	23:32
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fnordianslip	ruminant even	23:32
lcuk	counting sheep screen saver bedtime app!	23:32
woglinde	wahaaa	23:32
jkimball4	flac works	23:32
pwnguin	lcuk: ive got it. you make a calendar drawing app	23:33
SpeedEvil	lcuk: be careful1	23:33
SpeedEvil	http://www.xkcd.com/571/	23:33
pwnguin	every day is a new subject to draw	23:33
lcuk	pwnguin, what do you think i do with it already	23:33
pwnguin	donno	23:33
lcuk	before i wrote the calendar i wrote an app to draw fonts on	23:33
lcuk	i drew a different thing in each box	23:33
lcuk	now i have the calendar itself	23:33
lcuk	but like i said to quim, the idea works for anything	23:34
pwnguin	i was just thinking if you want people to participate	23:34
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/barcamp_grid.jpg	23:34
lcuk	yeah	23:34
lcuk	i know EXACTLY what you are thinking	23:35
pwnguin	in a group drawing challenge, maybe they don't have to nessecarily draw know they're contributing to an archive. or maybe this is what you have in mind and i should stop wasting time	23:35
lcuk	ive already spoken with people about it	23:35
lcuk	its part of the collaborative orchestra application im working on	23:35
Proteous	w there are men on it... top men	23:35
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woglinde	orchestra?	23:35
Proteous	I said Top Men	23:35
lcuk	woglinde, :)	23:36
pwnguin	i remember brain age had a daily "draw x" task	23:36
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pwnguin	or weekly, semi-random. i cant remember. i guess that means fbrain age failed	23:37
lcuk	hahahahahahaha SpeedEvil	23:37
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fnordianslip	sheep cakes: http://llamasoft.co.uk/yak/sheepcakes.jpg	23:37
lcuk	i posted xkcd today in a very serious channel	23:38
_claesbas	is there a bluemaemo for maemo5 for testing yet?	23:38
lcuk	maybe its in testing	23:38
lcuk	VDVsx, wake up	23:38
lcuk	customer	23:38
_claesbas	:-)	23:38
_claesbas	I've poked him already	23:38
lcuk	o_O i dont wanna know what you did lol	23:38
VDVsx	_claesbas, and I answered	23:38
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_claesbas	sorry, I saw that now.. thank you	23:39
_claesbas	hehe	23:39
VDVsx	_claesbas, is alpha sw so don't expect that much..	23:39
Ceron^	i love the sound quality of my n900 + bose headset	23:39
_claesbas	Ok, I see.. I am actually helping a friend here	23:40
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_claesbas	I have no n900 yet but a friend does	23:40
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lcuk	can somebody write me a tiny .sh script which takes as a parameter a thread index and a picture file. i will write a quick sketch app which will let you submit a sketch as a photo to an ongoing tmo thread	23:40
_claesbas	and he asked for a bluetooth keuboard/mouse solution	23:40
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_claesbas	VDVsx, ok, then I know.. are you working on it atm?	23:41
woglinde	lcuk .sh and threads?	23:41
VDVsx	_claesbas, that's a remote controller app only	23:41
lcuk	.sh script file	23:41
VDVsx	_claesbas, not too much	23:41
lcuk	talk.maemo.org thread	23:41
lcuk	using wget	23:41
lcuk	or something	23:42
lcuk	i could do it with the internal www library	23:42
lcuk	but this will be quicker to get moving	23:42
lcuk	i can let kathy have her sheep drawing app by the morning	23:42
lcuk	so when she opens the thread she can give people a drawing tool to send them to	23:42
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woglinde	lcuk I am tired	23:42
woglinde	work was hard today	23:42
xorAxAx	is it possible to disable the "not supported by nokia" warning in the app manager?	23:42
lcuk	indeed	23:42
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lcuk	was hard for me too!	23:42
lcuk	i had to rebuild scratchbox :S	23:43
pwnguin	lcuk: the problem with automated posting is that you'd need to authenticate	23:43
woglinde	????	23:43
Macer	haha	23:43
woglinde	why you are building scratchbox	23:43
mikhas	xorAxAx, you want to replace it with a "not supported by the developer" warning instead?	23:43
woglinde	instead of installing it	23:43
pwnguin	lcuk: maybe instead, just launch a url in the browser?	23:43
lcuk	pwnguin, cookie gets logged in by user	23:43
woglinde	lcuk make cmake working in sdk+	23:43
Macer	what is the point of a 400MB losless release of an album? :)	23:43
xorAxAx	mikhas: heh, no, i want to skip it	23:43
lcuk	pwnguin, it needs uploading	23:43
Macer	why not just release the CD? haha	23:43
lcuk	i do it now to liqbase.net	23:43
lcuk	but from inside the app	23:43
lcuk	theres gotta be a way to automatically post to talk.maemo.org	23:44
lcuk	from code	23:44
pwnguin	sure, if you steal cookies	23:44
lcuk	then steal em	23:44
pwnguin	or embed passwords	23:44
lcuk	thats doable	23:44
lcuk	ill ask for the username and password	23:44
lcuk	i do it now for liqbase	23:44
pwnguin	that maybe not so bright	23:44
lcuk	ok, ill pass those as params	23:44
pwnguin	even worse	23:44
lcuk	meh i actually store the base64 away for liqbase	23:45
lcuk	errr not base64	23:45
lcuk	md5	23:45
pwnguin	on the other hand	23:45
pwnguin	how does the flickr / facebook / etc work?	23:45
lcuk	same way to some degree	23:45
pwnguin	i think flickr has some keypair tool	23:46
lcuk	tell me what i need to pass you to a .sh script and ill make sure its available	23:46
lcuk	i just wanna post pictures to tmo	23:46
lcuk	so kathy can get her sheep	23:46
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pwnguin	heh	23:46
lcuk	i could use the irc app im building	23:46
lcuk	but that wont be ready by the morning	23:46
lcuk	this can be	23:46
lcuk	and in extras-devel	23:46
lcuk	simple logistics	23:46
pwnguin	hacky way would be to take username, password, thread and filename	23:46
Sir_Lancelot	hi guys	23:47
lcuk	filename is autogenerated	23:47
lcuk	cos they will draw	23:47
lcuk	and when submit	23:47
lcuk	it makes file	23:47
lcuk	so, great	23:47
lcuk	do it hacky	23:47
Sir_Lancelot	does it exist a Facebook app for the N900?	23:47
pwnguin	then you'd issue a login request via wget, then a post request via wget	23:47
lcuk	i wouldnt	23:47
lcuk	you would :P ill get writing the app	23:47
pwnguin	the script would	23:47
lcuk	whats your name	23:48
lcuk	ill make sure its on the front	23:48
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]		23:48
pwnguin	actually im at work, and you're distracting me :P	23:48
lcuk	haha	23:48
pwnguin	its possible, get someone else do do the hack ;)	23:48
lcuk	distracting myself too	23:48
lcuk	i should be resting	23:48
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lcuk	i wonder if thread by title would be possible	23:49
lcuk	include a list of subjects to draw	23:49
lcuk	and let people just choose the ones they wannt play in	23:50
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jkimball4	who was talking about the return key not working right on irssi?	23:51
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Sir_Lancelot	is there a keyboard shotcut to acess the program menu?	23:53
GeneralAntilles	ctrl-backspace	23:55
GeneralAntilles	Then tap the icon in the upper left.	23:55
mikhas	lol, not really a keyboard shortcut then =p	23:55
GeneralAntilles	mikhas, it's a bit like your shortcut on the metro. :P	23:56
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mikhas	meh	23:57
GeneralAntilles	lbt, ping?	23:57
GeneralAntilles	mikhas, have you installed camkeyd?	23:58
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lbt	pong GeneralAntilles	23:58
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=421680	23:58
GeneralAntilles	lbt, Maemo 6 ToC.	23:58
mikhas	have I what? probably not!	23:58
*** lardman\|away is now known as lardman		23:58
lardman	re	23:58
GeneralAntilles	mikhas, it's in Extras-devel or Extras-testing.	23:59
GeneralAntilles	It binds the autofocus step on the camera key to ctrl-backspace.	23:59
woglinde	jo lardman	23:59
lbt	yup - it's what we whiteboarded	23:59
lardman	hi woglinde	23:59
lardman	~lart building for i386	23:59
* infobot breaks out the Hoover and sucks up building for i386		23:59

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