IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-12-07

crashanddie_mbptimeless_mbp:  plus00:00
RST38hArkenoi: But there is a good chance these can be found at Savelka00:00
javispedroRST38h: can't wait to test it :)00:00
timeless_mbpspider solitaire was similar00:00
RST38hjavis: I wanted to ask you to take care of passing it through autobuilder00:00
Dantonichey is it normal for the quality of sound from the FM transmitter to be not so good compared to a regular fm radio station?00:00
timeless_mbpplus! for windows 9800:00
Dantonicor not as good I should say00:00
RST38hjavis: I will do all the packaging00:00
javispedroRST38h: send me the source and what you want to appear on maintainer line and I'll take care of it00:00
* Arkenoi *suddenly* spent last night out of the home and ran out of the battery at the morning, for sure00:00
crashanddie_mbpDantonic: you're lucky if you can receive anything at all00:00
javispedroRST38h: ah, you'll take care of packaging, even better.00:01
Dantoniccrashanddie_mbp, oh?00:01
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RST38hjavis: It is 29MB of code and data, with some crufty makefiles00:01
crashanddie_mbpDantonic: tried on 4 different cars, didn't work on either00:01
timeless_mbpanyway, roughly ms added about 1 game per version00:01
javispedro29MiB!!00:01
RST38hmhm maemo.org/packages does not load00:01
timeless_mbpwith most games first available in plus packs00:01
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Arkenoidid not have a charger or cable with me, as i did not expect that00:01
Dantoniccrashanddie_mbp, then it's pretty much useless really... I mean how much power does it need to send out a decent short range FM signal?00:01
RST38hjavis: Includes some ogg sounds, they do not play of course00:01
crashanddie_mbpDantonic: the antenna is more likely to be the issue00:02
javispedroah00:02
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Dantonichmm00:02
* javispedro doesn't know why Modest mail account setup for gmail defaults to IMAP00:02
crashanddie_mbpDantonic: you can put a 5MW transmitter connected to a hairpin, you're not going to reach the end of the block00:02
SpeedEvilDantonic: regulatory issues.00:02
RST38hyou do not want pop3, really00:02
Dantoniccrashanddie_mbp, btw I've found that I get a better signal on higher frequencies maybe around 97-102FM00:02
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SpeedEvilDantonic: the globallegal maximum is _tiny_00:03
RST38hmodest pop3 is broken00:03
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javispedroRST38h: I've been using pop3 on my n810 for ages00:03
DantonicSpeedEvil, ah I see00:03
javispedroRST38h: did they break it even more in fremantle?00:03
SpeedEvilmodest pop is also broken for me00:03
RST38hjavis: they just never fixed it00:03
javispedroi see this thing will need quite a bit of work to make it usable =)00:03
Dantoniccrashanddie_mbp, SpeedEvil, well it's definitely much worse than a regular FM signal... so much that I wouldn't bother with it unless I absolutely had to.00:03
SpeedEvilWhat is the manner of the breakage - and is there a workaround?00:03
timeless_mbpjavispedro: all things considered00:03
timeless_mbpi'd expect that imap w/ gmail is painful00:04
RST38hpop3 basically hangs after a few checks and can only be fixed with reboot (or killing modest)00:04
timeless_mbpwe don't support idle00:04
timeless_mbpso w/ pop you should just get "new" messages00:04
timeless_mbpwhereas w/ imap we should check the whole index00:04
SpeedEviltimeless; oh - not that - it simply says 'wrong password'00:04
timeless_mbpnot sure if this actually works00:04
RST38hWhat is NOT painful with modest?00:04
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: eh?00:04
RST38hPOP3 does not work.00:04
* Arkenoi needs 103.0 MHz00:04
crashanddie_mbpDantonic: mini jack + line in uses less power and is more reliable00:04
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SpeedEviltimeless: I setup my login details, I attempt to connect, and it says wrong password.00:05
ArkenoiRST38h, pop3 worked for me00:05
javispedroI actually like pop3, I have been deleting older messages in my n810 for a year now00:05
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: hrm, is it using tls?00:05
RST38hArkenoi: let it run for a while00:05
javispedrogmail uses ssl00:05
ArkenoiRST38h, kept it running for a couple of days00:05
javispedronot tls afaik00:05
SpeedEviltimeless: tcpdump shows it - sometimes - when it doesn't just say 'CAPA, then quit before getting a response - sending the correct username and password, then quitting00:05
RST38hArkenoi: komkon?00:06
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: i think you're supposed to use tls00:06
timeless_mbpif you can see CAPA, then it isn't doing TLS00:06
Dantoniccrashanddie_mbp, well yes, that's how I use it in my car atm... it sounds wonderfully00:06
SpeedEviltimeless: well - yes - but the server doesn't support TLS00:06
Dantonicwonderful*00:06
Dantonic:P00:06
timeless_mbphttp://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1328700:06
divinegodwhat is the most optimal format to encode video and audio in for best viewing experience on the n900?00:06
timeless_mbpIncoming Mail (POP3) Server - requires SSL:  pop.gmail.com00:06
timeless_mbpUse SSL: Yes00:06
timeless_mbpPort: 99500:06
javispedroas I said, gmail uses sll.00:07
javispedro*ssl00:07
timeless_mbpsorry, ssl, not tls00:07
pwnguindivinegod: uncompressed avi at 800x48000:07
javispedroI've just set it up on modest00:07
javispedroand it worked00:07
RST38hwow, speccy is up to 7 votes00:07
javispedroRST38h: how much I'll have to wait until my brand new loaned n900 grins to a halt under the pressure of modest having to check a POP3 account? =)00:07
ArkenoiRST38h, nope, nwgsm.ru (komkon still alive? wow, i wonder if ethereal is, also)00:08
divinegodpwnguin: and for a compressed format? I don't think I'll be able to get uncompressed avi over the web.00:08
RST38hjavis: Takes me a day00:08
RST38hArkenoi: ethereal is alive00:08
SpeedEvilI don't think uncompressed is actually best00:08
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pwnguinjust buy a very very big sdhc ;)00:08
SpeedEvilI would start out at 400*24000:08
SpeedEviland a couple of megabits mpeg4.00:09
divinegodI could get a lot of sdhcs and then mail that to the users..00:09
* Arkenoi plays with meizu m8 (winCE6.0). could be a nice thing if they haven't try to mimick iphone closely00:10
divinegodthat must be the most sensible thing to do00:10
RST38hmeizu still exists?00:10
Arkenoiyep00:10
pwnguindivinegod: the things to identify are the bandwidth available and the cpu available00:10
homeasvs_derf, so, building inside a chroot on the phone seems to be working, fingers crossed00:10
divinegodpwnguin: and the capabilities of the dsp perhaps?00:11
pwnguini guess that too00:11
Arkenoiactually it is not a smartphone, more a slim mediaplayer with native dvd resolution and gsm module00:11
Arkenoiwifi is almost broken00:11
RST38h"KDE SC 4.4 Beta 1 has introduced tabbed windows as a new feature. It is now possible to tab together windows from different applications. This looks like it will be a very good productivity tool."00:11
RST38h"KDE invents screen"00:11
pwnguinif you're trying to optimize for experience, the less compression the better00:12
Arkenoiwill blog a mini-review soon00:12
timeless_mbpRST38h: cool00:12
Zeddehso, how exactly would one sync the n900 calendar with google calendar? :)00:12
pwnguinbut it sounds like you want to know how much compute is available to decompress00:13
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divinegodit would be good if the video decoding could be offloaded to the dsp. I had an mp4 with HighProfile h264 video.. mediaplayer didn't like that00:13
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Arkenoihttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35594&page=4 <- said to work this way, haven't tried yet00:13
timeless_mbpdivinegod: eh00:13
timeless_mbpyou're sure that video decoding is never offloaded?00:13
timeless_mbpiirc the problem we had was that the dsp stuff we got had support for a really useless profile of mp400:14
timeless_mbpyou're welcome to pay someone for a better dsp impl00:14
timeless_mbpgood luck w/ that00:14
crashanddie_mbpI love how on tmo the plural of "anecdote" is "statistical proof"00:14
divinegodtimeless_mbp: it is. But the video file I have is not encoded in a compatible format, I created bug 6635, which is now resolved wontfix.00:14
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6635 OpenMax returns error when trying to play an mp4 file with h264 video00:14
pwnguinis the dsp documentation available?00:14
timeless_mbp(oh, and iirc the dsp impl was also buggy)00:14
Shapeshiftermhh, skype on the n900, is it done using the telepathy backend? >.>00:14
andre__detective, three days ago? which product do you refer to?00:14
Shapeshifterthat would be a surprise.00:14
javispedroShapeshifter: seems so!00:14
javispedroit's integrated with the dialer app00:15
woglindepwnguin hm not all00:15
timeless_mbpdivinegod: do us a favor00:15
woglindepwnguin read here -> http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/00:15
timeless_mbpdon't say "i wish the system would do something"00:15
timeless_mbpwhen you know that for some definition of _something_, the system in fact does it00:15
timeless_mbpyou're basically lying00:16
timeless_mbpwhich is really rude00:16
divinegodI beg your pardon.00:16
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timeless_mbpif you want to wish that it would support video decoding of highprofile, that's fie00:16
Shapeshiftermhh nah telepathy is still using skype in the background00:16
timeless_mbpbut claiming that it doesn't at all, which is what you did00:16
crashanddie_mbpdivinegod: I think I speak for the majority of us: shut the fuck up00:16
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* timeless_mbp grumbles00:16
felipecdivinegod: that's not MPEG-4, that's H.26400:17
divinegodoh my.00:17
crashanddie_mbpdivinegod: (that's a joke, by the way)00:17
code177fyi you guys00:17
woglindehuhu felipec00:17
pwnguintimeless_mbp: so it looks like i can't just pay "someone" to program the DSP00:17
code177i managed to get (at expense) an n900 at the santa clara event00:17
crashanddie_mbppwnguin: why not?00:17
code177and it's everything i ever dreamed of00:17
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code177so ignore the haters lol00:17
timeless_mbppwnguin: sure you can00:17
pwnguincrashanddie_mbp: because the documentation isn't available?00:17
timeless_mbpyou have your choice of ARM and TI00:18
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felipecpwnguin: or bug TI to provide a decent DSP compiler that can compile FFmpeg?00:18
pwnguinheh00:18
crashanddie_mbppwnguin: eh?00:18
timeless_mbpand probably 3 other companies in the world00:18
timeless_mbpi didn't say "pay anyone"00:18
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andre__code177, nice to hear that you're happy with it :)00:19
crashanddie_mbpnice to hear someone.... finally00:19
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felipeccrashanddie_mbp: pwnguin: there's plenty of documentation how to program the DSP00:19
crashanddie_mbpfelipec: did I ever say the contrary?00:20
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pwnguin"The DSP on the OMAP3 is even more compelling for video decoding because attached to the DSP are several units that accelerate motion vector copying, VLC decoding, and loop deblocking. Unfortunately, these pieces are not publicly documented by TI, so the current Theora port (which is open source) is unable to use them."00:20
felipeccrashanddie_mbp: did I say you did?00:20
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crashanddie_mbpfelipec: point taken00:20
crashanddie_mbppwnguin: that doesn't mean the DSP as a whole isn't documented00:21
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crashanddie_mbppwnguin: when you learn to drive a car, you don't learn how to make tyres, yet you can still drive a car, right?00:21
felipecpwnguin: that's true, but the DSP part alone is quite powerful00:22
timeless_mbppwnguin: is http://pixhawk.ethz.ch/wiki/omap/dsp relevant?00:22
pwnguincrashanddie_mbp: its more like trying to drive without tires00:22
felipecpwnguin: TI's MPEG-4 decoder for example is not using the hardware accelerator00:22
pwnguintimeless_mbp: assuming that's whats' in the n900, it's a goo dstart00:22
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timeless_mbppwnguin: please don't assume i'd recognize one chip from a piece of burnt silicon00:23
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Arkenoifunny, there are quite decent applications for text note taking and for sketches but not for combined :-(00:23
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_mbp: speaking of which, how do brits spell the area in CA around Palo Alto/Mountain View/Santa Clara/Standford?00:23
felipecpwnguin: we measured the performance of the DSP Theora decoder, and it wasn't using the DSP fully, so the bottleneck is something else00:23
timeless_mbpArkenoi: MaemoPad+ ?00:23
RST38hArkenoi: Maemopad+00:23
Arkenoiwill try00:23
crashanddie_mbptimeless_mbp: like where I'm at?00:24
timeless_mbpsure00:24
woglindefelipec hm00:24
crashanddie_mbptimeless_mbp: at the moment, I just say "Around the US office"00:24
RST38hOk. Sleep.00:24
woglindenite rst00:24
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_mbp: _____ valley00:24
crashanddie_mbpdunno00:24
crashanddie_mbpI don't speak to people, i just talk to myself00:24
timeless_mbpi'm reading a book written in british english00:24
timeless_mbpand their spelling of that word irks me00:24
timeless_mbp(i can tolerate the other abuses)00:25
kynkylol00:25
crashanddie_mbpoh, silicon?00:25
pwnguinhow do you misspell that?00:25
ashenburgersilicone? :p00:25
timeless_mbpthe same way you misspell potato?00:25
fnordianslippersfetus?00:25
crashanddie_mbpsilicon is made from silicone00:25
crashanddie_mbpbut they are not the same thing00:25
ashenburgerto be fair, he only asked how to misspel. job well done imo :)00:26
kynkyisnt silicon an element ?00:26
pwnguinmipsel!00:26
ashenburgeroh the irony00:26
ashenburgermisspell*00:26
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timeless_mbpashenburger: it's great word to botch00:26
timeless_mbpalong w/ spelling and grammer [sic]00:27
pwnguinspelling?00:27
pillarwhat was it that I need to do to get network working in scratchbox? I saw somewhere some guide for it, but can't find it now00:27
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felipecpillar: search for resolv.conf00:27
timeless_mbpso, according to this, silcone valley is the san fernando valley (after breast implants)00:28
crashanddie_mbptimeless_mbp: if they used silicone valley, they're talking about LA -- for all the implants00:28
timeless_mbpbut given the context which was technology00:28
timeless_mbpthat means a translator fscked up00:28
* timeless_mbp sighs00:28
timeless_mbpidiots++00:28
kynkynot the first time then00:28
timeless_mbpmost localizers should be shot00:28
timeless_mbp(i say this as a localizer of the n8x0 and n900)00:29
pwnguinalmost as bad as their pronounciation of Aluminum00:29
javispedroeither the battery meter is much improved, or the battery life is really awful on this thing.00:29
timeless_mbpheh00:29
timeless_mbpi'd bet on the latter :)00:29
timeless_mbpit sounds much safer00:29
* javispedro would too. then sigh.00:29
ashenburgerit drains pretty fast00:29
pillarfelipec yes found something, trying that, thanks00:29
kynkypwnguin, was thinking of al-u-min-e-um thing too00:30
pwnguinhow what exactly is scratchbox? a vm?00:30
pwnguinits the british version of nucular00:30
crashanddie_mbpI loved it when I received a card announcing the birth of some kid in a far far away part of the family00:31
ashenburgertime to search for tel'aran'rhiod, night gents00:31
crashanddie_mbpand the card read "A Blessing in the Skies -- Our angel is born"00:31
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crashanddie_mbp(Blessing in disguise...)00:32
timeless_mbpoh gosh00:32
pwnguinrobots in the skies00:32
kynkylol00:32
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crashanddie_mbpnot worse than HR sending out an email to warn about the "Carpool tunnel syndrome"00:33
kynkyautobots transform00:33
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timeless_mbpkynky++00:34
timeless_mbpi still think our mirophones and micorophones are better00:34
timeless_mbpheck, i'm not sure that my all time favorite wasn't a request from a release manager:00:34
timeless_mbpto all, please release your changes in smaller junks00:34
timeless_mbp<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_(ship)>00:34
pwnguinthats what she said00:35
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timeless_mbpthat's pretty much what He said, yes00:35
timeless_mbpand i printed the wikipedia article for him and hand delivered it00:35
kynkylol, wikipedia the trustworthy source :)00:35
timeless_mbpjunks are quite large, and can thus handle quite large deliveries00:36
timeless_mbpa smaller junk would indeed handle slightly smaller large deliveries :)00:36
kynkymove quite slow00:36
timeless_mbpkynky: actually 007 was my authoritative source: http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/vehicles/scaramangas-junk00:36
kynkygood good =)00:37
crashanddie_mbpI hate the "nucular" armerican way of saying nuclear00:37
Arkenoiwill maemopad+ work on n900?00:37
ManuelSEnice app00:38
ManuelSEcontact author00:38
crashanddie_mbpbuy him a device00:39
crashanddie_mbphe'll see what he can do00:39
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crashanddie_mbplardman you wanker!00:39
hotaru2k3most Americans don't say it that way, and most of the ones who do just do it to get back at the brits for "aluminum"00:40
crashanddie_mbpaluminium00:40
crashanddie_mbpthey're both valid spellings, that being said00:40
timeless_mbpyeah, but the latter is just plain stupid ;-)00:41
crashanddie_mbpactually, not really00:41
kynkyartefacts was a crazy one to spell00:42
timeless_mbpyou're going to defend it w/ beryllium ?00:42
crashanddie_mbpI remember reading that they both appeared at the same time, maybe within two weeks of each other, and that aluminum might actually be older than aluminium00:42
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timeless_mbppersonally i'm waiting for transparent aluminum00:43
crashanddie_mbplol00:43
mavhcthey invented that00:43
kynkyaluminium rusts!00:43
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mavhcbut it's only transparent to extremely high energy light, for extremely short periods of time00:43
kynkyor should i say it oxidizes00:44
crashanddie_mbptimeless_mbp: you're going to have to invent something more powerful than a "nucular" device in order to have copious amounts of transparent aluminium00:44
timeless_mbpwould a macintosh do? :)00:45
timeless_mbp(hey, it worked for Scotty!)00:45
kynkya fusion device ?00:45
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crashanddie_mbpkynky: fusion isn't hard00:45
maxxleA suggestion for n900: The device should check if it's in horizontal/vertical position if one presses the Power-Button to access the phone option. Would be nice! What do u think?00:45
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crashanddie_mbpmaxxle: and you don't think that the device needs to be on in order to access that information?00:46
crashanddie_mbpoh, sorry, misread that00:46
maxxleok00:46
crashanddie_mbpmaxxle: yeah, could be interesting00:46
crashanddie_mbpkynky: want to do a fusion experiment?00:47
timeless_mbpmaxxle: i don't understand00:47
maxxlecrashanddie_mbp: Do i have to file a bugreport for this? Or is there an other way for this feature-request?00:47
crashanddie_mbptimeless_mbp: hold the device in portrait, press power button, phone shows up00:47
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timeless_mbphrm00:47
crashanddie_mbpmaxxle: actually, it's probably going to be classified as invalid00:47
timeless_mbpi held my device in portrait, phone appeared00:47
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timeless_mbpi pressed the power button, and i got a vertical power menu00:48
javispedroi'm sorry, is that a small, ugly, flatten, wince style 3mm wide scrollbar on ovi maps???00:48
crashanddie_mbpmaxxle: get someone to program a daemon to allow live shortcuts00:48
derfhomeasvs_: Glad to hear it.00:48
timeless_mbpjavispedro: probably00:48
timeless_mbppicture?00:48
javispedroother than that, the application is not as awful as I though00:49
timeless_mbpmicrob gives out those scrollbars to web pages that misbehave00:49
kynkycrashanddie_mbp, thanks for the offer, but its not neccesary00:49
javispedrotimeless: it's on the map settings map00:49
javispedroer..00:49
crashanddie_mbpkynky: take a glass of water, put it in your freezer00:49
javispedroroute settings00:49
crashanddie_mbpkynky: wait 6 hours, TADA, fusion!00:49
crashanddie_mbpliterally, cold fusion00:49
timeless_mbpjavispedro: you owe me for making me open maps00:49
maxxlehum.... i will try it as a bug. Actually it's one because if i'm in phone-mode the menu shows correctly and not 90ยฐ rotated00:50
javispedrotimeless: hopefully it's not only a es_ES issue then00:50
* javispedro is surprised at how the thing managed to pinpoint its location indoors00:51
timeless_mbpctrl-shift-p00:51
timeless_mbppicture?00:51
javispedrook, wait a bit00:51
timeless_mbpit probably cheated and asked your cell network for help00:51
timeless_mbpah yeah00:51
javispedroyeah, but it was very precise for that00:51
timeless_mbpcellular is much faster than gps00:51
sivanghmm, odd error00:51
timeless_mbpand yeah, that's microb rewarding them for being stupid00:51
javispedrofaster probably, preciser?00:51
sivangI erased /scratchbox and remove --purge it00:52
timeless_mbpnot more precise00:52
timeless_mbpbut much much much faster00:52
sivangI retry the installation00:52
sivangand I get: E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc' is not executable.00:52
sivanganybody idea?00:52
javispedroah, so no need for me to screenshot anything :)00:52
timeless_mbpnope00:52
javispedrotimeless: note also that panning doesn't work00:52
sivangand scratchbox does not even have /scratchbox/compilers dir00:52
timeless_mbpit doesn't?00:52
sivangwhat went wrong ?00:52
timeless_mbpwfm in my post sales version :)00:52
kynkythought h2o (room temperature) to h2o (below zero) was just a change of energy states, so frozen water has potential energy, i thought say combining 2h with o to produce h2o was fusion, the fusing of elements where energy is produced and the waste product water is produced00:53
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javispedrooh, nice :)00:53
javispedrowell, let the ugly scroll bar rest there then00:53
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kynkybut i havent done chemistry in about 15 years00:53
sivangwhat creates the compilers dir ?00:54
timeless_mbpsivang: host devkits00:54
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sivangtimeless_mbp: can I install it manually from the non scratchbox chroot ?00:54
javispedrotoolchains00:54
timeless_mbpthat's how you do it00:54
timeless_mbpjavispedro: whateve00:55
javispedro:)00:55
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sivangtimeless_mbp: hmm, I have to add the maemo repo manually then?00:55
* sivang wonders why it broke00:55
sivangthe installer was runnning beautofully a coule of times ago00:55
javispedrosivang, so you're not using the automated setup?00:55
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javispedroah, you are.00:56
sivangjavispedro: I am00:56
timeless_mbpyou would probably add the scratchbox repo00:56
sivangjavispedro: it just fails :)00:56
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sivangjavispedro: and it used to work, but I removed the /scratchbox dir by hand after apt-get remove --purge scratchbox-core and removing the user00:56
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sivangjavispedro: so to have the system in a vanilla state as before the setup00:57
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javispedrocheck for any other scratchbox- packages installed00:57
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sivangjavispedro: http://pastie.org/73099400:59
sivangjavispedro: http://pastie.org/73099701:00
javispedrosivang: can't you launch synaptic or something like that and purge all of them01:00
sivangjavispedro: that's what I did before this error01:00
sivangjavispedro: but with apt-get remove --purge01:01
javispedroeveryone of them01:01
javispedro?01:01
sivangjavispedro: synaptic is the same01:01
javispedroare you sure they all depend on -core?01:01
sivangjavispedro: ah01:01
sivangjavispedro: good point01:01
javispedrono, I'm not sure. just asking.01:01
* sivang checks01:01
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sivangjavispedro: this is the magic line, sudo dpkg -l | grep scratchbox | cut -d" " -f3 | xargs sudo apt-get -y remove --purge01:04
sivangjavispedro: now retrying01:04
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sivangjavispedro: right, so now it created the compliers dir01:06
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* sivang crosses fingers for the install process01:06
woglindesdk+01:06
woglindeno pain01:06
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javispedroi didn't have any pain with the usual sbox too.01:07
javispedrobut on maebar I have found quite a bit of people having nightmares with the SDK so..01:07
sivangjavispedro: what's maebar ?01:07
javispedrosivang: the maemo barcelona event, which just ended01:08
sivangjavispedro: ah, right, Jure told me about it but I was too short in time and funds to make to there01:08
sivangjavispedro: was a good event I reckon ?01:08
* javispedro glances at (timeless's?) n900 autorun.inf icon01:08
timeless_mbpyes01:08
timeless_mbp:)01:08
timeless_mbpi hope you like it01:08
sivangthanks javispedro , it works now01:09
javispedrotimeless: there's practically no way to dislike it. it's just the appropriate one.01:09
sivangjavispedro: I assumed everything depended on -core01:09
sivangwrong01:09
javispedrosivang: yeah, it was very nice :)01:09
timeless_mbp:)01:09
timeless_mbpjavispedro: you wouldn't believe what kind of feedback we had internally01:09
sivangtimeless_mbp: you with Nokia ?01:10
timeless_mbpayup01:10
* sivang wonders if he asked that already01:10
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sivangtimeless_mbp: ah cool, you know Sami ?01:10
timeless_mbpmaemo.org/profile/view/timeless/01:10
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timeless_mbp'sami' doesn't seem like a unique name01:10
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rohanpm"you know Sami ?" is a hilarious thing to say to someone working for Nokia :-)01:11
* javispedro glances at "how to make dot prefixed folders appear on macos x 101"01:11
rohanpmit's like saying "you know John ?" to a Mormon01:11
sivanghehe01:11
timeless_mbpjavispedro: did you see how we did it?01:11
timeless_mbpwe cheated01:11
sivangsorry folks, I'm digging a link01:12
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BBNSsami, timo, hmm what else ...01:12
timeless_mbptotally evil and stupid workaround for an incredibly lame thing01:12
timeless_mbpjaakko?01:12
BBNSor jukka01:12
javispedrotimeless: don't have a mac near, but I can guess it considering the hidden files they're in "that" folder01:12
timeless_mbptuomas01:12
timeless_mbppekka01:12
fralsmika? marko?01:12
javispedros/they're/that are01:12
timeless_mbpjavispedro: the Mac OS one?01:12
javispedroyep01:13
timeless_mbpyeah01:13
timeless_mbptotally stupid hack01:13
* sivang barfs at OS X01:13
timeless_mbpto work around a braindead design01:13
timeless_mbpsivang: nothing wrong w/ OS X01:13
sivangbraindead it is01:13
BBNSalways has difficult time to remember his finish colleagues' name.01:13
timeless_mbpsomething terribly wrong w/ the maemo file system layout01:13
sivangtimeless_mbp: sorry, Mac OS01:13
javispedrothis comes from the unixy part of macos x, so it's fine. the workaround is ugly :)01:13
sivangas in System X01:13
timeless_mbpBBNS =~ s/finish/finnish/01:13
DyresenSo anyone else had n900's go brick?01:13
timeless_mbpjavispedro: at least the workaround works!01:13
timeless_mbpwe don't have a workaround for Linux!01:14
BBNStimeless_mbp: oops ...sorry. =P they are both available word and spell check didn't warn me.01:14
sivangthat's the name: sami.j.viitanen01:14
sivangtimeless_mbp: ^^01:14
* javispedro realizes someone actually snapshotted him unboxing his n900!01:14
* timeless_mbp ponders01:14
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timeless_mbp"maybe"01:14
sivangtimeless_mbp: he's a pro services consultant AFAICT01:14
timeless_mbpmy phone only knows a different viitanen01:14
timeless_mbpalso not an uncommon name01:14
timeless_mbpjaakko is roughly jack01:15
timeless_mbppekka is iirc peter01:15
timeless_mbptuomas is thomas01:15
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timeless_mbpsami is sam01:15
javispedroso, I'm a Linux user, and I don't know where to put my music files on.01:15
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timeless_mbpmarko is mark01:15
javispedroHere's to hoping Nautilus has similar "aliases" support.01:15
mikhason your ipod01:15
meceI'm getting a "you cannot add the items(s) here. Choose a different location." error while copying music to my N900? Not weird. What is weird is it started after ~300 songs were copied.01:15
timeless_mbpmika is mike01:15
DyresenCan anyone confirm that they have rock solid stable n900's?01:16
timeless_mbpjavispedro: it doesn't01:16
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timeless_mbpbut remember... tracker indexes all files01:16
timeless_mbpso you don't have to get them into the right folder01:16
javispedroDyresen: they're all unstable and crazy. they will kill you while you sleep. nokia knows this and is hiding the truth from you.01:16
sivangtimeless_mbp: I met him and Jure Sustersic on the Developer Day01:16
timeless_mbpmece: um01:16
timeless_mbpthe file system is fat01:16
meceyesh... and?01:16
timeless_mbpthere's a limit to the number of files in the root of the fat file system01:16
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AakashPatelIs there an issue with signatures on the email app?01:16
mikhasyup, I just have my music files directly in MyDocs/, and the player finds them easily01:16
timeless_mbpif you did tried to stick all the files into the root01:16
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timeless_mbpthen you're asking for it01:17
vblazquezi'm trying to compile an application for n900 in scrachbox, but i receive that message, /scratchbox/compilers/host-gcc/bin/ld: warning: libstdc++.so.6, needed by /opt/qt4-maemo5/lib/libQtCore.so, may conflict with libstdc++.so.5, anyone know what kind of proble i have?01:17
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AakashPatelI save a signature but it doesnt show up unless i create an email, swtich the from address to adiffernt one, and then swtich it back01:17
timeless_mbphow'd you get libstdc++.so.5 ?!01:17
javispedronote /scratchbox/compilers/HOST-GCC/..01:17
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Dyresenjavispedro: well, mine has been like that actually.01:18
mecetimeless_mbp, they are all neatly divided into MyDocs/.sounds/<artistname>/<album name>/<artistname> - <tracknumber> - <trackname>.mp301:18
javispedroeither he has no target setup or the autosetup went mad again, in which case, *sigh*01:18
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sivanggoing to sleep, bye all01:18
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timeless_mbpmece: i don't suppose you foolishly including folders that are marked as readonly?01:18
Dyresenjavispedro: So I just wonder if they are slightly unstable, or if I can expect it to be rock solid if I get it changed.01:18
timeless_mbps/including/included/01:18
vblazquezjavispedro: i can't see it01:18
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javispedroDyresen: what do you mean by "slight unstable"?01:19
timeless_mbpvblazquez: what host vendor distro version of linux are you running?01:19
AakashPatelso no issues on the email signature :/01:19
vblazquezarch linux01:19
AakashPatel?01:19
Dyresenjavispedro: like random reboots01:19
mecetimeless_mbp, didn't check that. I copied from my wifes windows machine...01:19
javispedroDyresen: how often?01:19
timeless_mbpmece: did it tell you the name of the folder?01:19
mecetimeless_mbp, nope, and I can't put files in any other folder either... wait, I'll test under something else than audio01:20
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timeless_mbpyou can use 'attrib /s /d' on windows to try to find that (or something like that)01:20
Dyresenjavispedro: if its once a day its too damn often, but mine was like every fifth minute most of the time. After about 20 hours it just went brick without me even touching the thing.01:20
javispedroDyresen: and you're even asking?01:20
timeless_mbpmece: you're using Mass Storage and not PC Suite, right?01:20
mecetimeless_mbp, using pc suite01:21
Dyresenjavispedro: Im asking if people have devices that are stable and nice.01:21
timeless_mbpmece: oh01:21
timeless_mbpum01:21
timeless_mbpmost of us stay away from pc suite01:21
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mecetimeless_mbp, understandable :)01:21
timeless_mbpit's probably the better choice01:21
mecetimeless_mbp, Ill switch01:21
DocScrutinizer51Dyresen, I for one am rather happy01:21
timeless_mbpbut um, we don't understand it01:21
javispedroDyresen: man, for more than five minutes? of course! what do you think this is, a red light district "company" or what01:22
ali1234Dyresen: i've had exactly one unexplained reboot in 2 months, and that was video decoder related01:22
timeless_mbpmece: i'd rather you figure out what went wrong01:22
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timeless_mbpsadly i know very little about how it works01:22
ShadowJKpc suite is made of evil and fail, like all "helper" software..01:22
timeless_mbptypically i'd start w/ filemon/procmon01:22
timeless_mbpbut i don't know if pc suite counts01:22
timeless_mbpi suspect it's just a shell class thingy01:22
Dyresenjavispedro: please learn how to read. Im not asking if people experience reboots every fifth minute.01:22
javispedrolast time I used pc suite it used some stupid explorer shell extension for01:22
javispedrotimeless++01:22
timeless_mbpwhich probably doesn't count from file/proc-mon's perspective01:23
mecetimeless_mbp, yep, works now. Thankee-sai!01:23
mecetimeless_mbp, what went wrong is what ShadowJK said...01:23
Dyresenali1234: DocScrutinizer51  ahh oki, thats exactly what Im wondering about. So Ill get it replaced, not asking for money back then.01:23
javispedroDyresen: so I asked for your definition of "stable" (actually, slight instable). but either way you got your answer01:24
Dyresenjavispedro: yes I did.01:24
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Dyresenjavispedro: I said once a day to too often ;)01:24
Dyresens/to /is /g01:24
ShadowJKre stabillity, i've used my n900 for over a week. I've had 0 spontaneous reboots. the browser has crashed maybe 4 times, that's all01:25
javispedrobut every fifth minute is not normal. once a day, depending on your use .... (for example, I already saw it reboot twice =) can't complain since I'm messing)01:25
jaem_AakashPatel, sorry I took so long01:25
jaem_what's up?01:25
ShadowJKi rebooted mine 2 or 3 times for sim card changes01:26
AakashPatelTryin to figure out why my signatures on email's arent showing up01:26
Dyresenjavispedro: yeah, Ill just ask them to send me a new one.01:26
Dyresenthanks01:26
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javispedroouch, couldn't Nokia just have used the usual "AUDIO" folder for.. audio.01:27
DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp, were you mentioning the gesture for history on browser to me? Are you involved in the browser development?01:27
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timeless_mbpyes01:27
fnordianslippersi've had mine for eleven days and not experienced a single uncommanded reboot although it did once make a noise like a geiger counter causing me to reboot it. uptime of 3 days currently.01:27
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AakashPateljaem_, Does it do the same thing for you? in the email app when you save a signature it doesnt show up in the message when you create one/01:28
jaem_let me see01:28
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ersinhi all01:28
DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp, I find it,s quite difficult to do the right to left slide sabsolutely without any Y component01:29
jaem_AakashPatel, worksforme01:29
AakashPatelhm wtf01:29
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer51: *shrug*01:29
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AakashPatelill delete the account and re-add it01:29
ersini was wondering if it's possible to use nokia's diablo images to create a qemu disk image to boot off of w/ qemu01:29
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timeless_mbpersin: i hope you own an n8x001:30
ersintimeless_mbp: i do01:30
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DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp, maybe browser could tolerate a fewdegrees up or down from absolutely flat line01:30
timeless_mbpso, roughly speaking01:30
timeless_mbpyou can use system-qemu01:30
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ersinhow so?01:30
meceDyresen, I haven't had a single crash. some 60 hour uptime now. I let it run empty once after the full charge, so I don't have 100% uptime, but pretty close.01:30
timeless_mbpit has been used01:30
ersini see01:30
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timeless_mbpdunno :)01:30
* javispedro likes the thing01:30
ersinlol01:31
ersinwell how about this01:31
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer51: stylus or finger?01:31
ersinnokia has separate images for everything (rootfs, kernel, etc.)01:31
DocScrutinizer51finger01:31
ersindo all those correspond to diff partitions on the internal flash?01:31
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timeless_mbphow much pressure?01:31
DocScrutinizer51hmm01:31
timeless_mbpersin: from memory, yes01:32
ersintimeless_mbp: thanks, i think that's enough to get started ;-)01:32
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DocScrutinizer51tried all but think more pressure works better01:32
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer51: the more pressure i apply, the more likely i am to get the gesture01:32
Dyresenmece: nice to hear. Makes me think I have a faulty device. Ill just have'em send a new one. Hardly managed to play with it at all before it bricked.01:32
timeless_mbpthe thing is01:32
timeless_mbpif you don't apply much pressure01:32
javispedroersin: search for n810 qemu, somebody already did it01:32
timeless_mbpwe think you're a stylus01:32
javispedroersin: s/n810/n800/01:32
timeless_mbpand assume that your high precision pointing device is intentionally not gesturing01:33
DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp, aah01:33
AakashPatelwaht the fuck01:33
DocScrutinizer51thanks01:33
ersinjavispedro: sweet, thanks for the tip01:33
ersincyall later01:33
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AakashPateljaem_, It doesnt show up on mine unless i change the from email and change it back01:33
javispedrobtw, for those of you who didn't hear me boast it at maebar, the eduroam bug has now a nokia-made unofficial fix!!01:34
jaem_AakashPatel, sorry, not sure01:34
DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp, also sometimes the picture slides to left and then"gets stuck" leaving a ca 10mm empty space at right side01:34
* AakashPatel thinks01:35
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DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp, while doing this gesture01:35
meceDyresen, sounds like the 32wd_to/sw_rst reboot bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633401:35
povbot`Bug 6334: random reboots01:35
AakashPateljaem_, That's odd01:35
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer51: i can understand what you're trying to describe, but i can't trigger it01:37
meceDyresen, if you want to help with that one, read the comments by Eero Tamminen (Nokia) on the bug and follow his instructions.01:37
mecethis thing needs an automagical album art downloader01:38
Dyresenmece: thanks, Ill look into it! =)01:38
DyresenNeed to "unbrick" the device as well though.01:38
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DyresenBut it came this way, it kind of sucks I think.01:38
meceDyresen, here's some info on the unbricking I believe: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware01:39
meceDyresen, yep. That's why it would be nice to find a solutions. Looks like a lot of people are working hard on it too.01:39
DocScrutinizer51timeless_mbp, no big thing. maybe I can create a screenshot or photo eventually01:40
meceDyresen, I've been lucky. The three N900's I use have had none of the problems that I've read about.01:41
SpeedEvilthe only problem I've experienced is the sucky front cam01:41
meceSpeedEvil, what do you use it for?01:41
SpeedEvilWell - and the lack of DSP accelleration in video codecs01:41
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SpeedEvilmece: simply testing at the moment.01:41
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Dyresenmece: yeah, Ill ask the shop to replace it anyway tomorrow. We shop there for approx $200K a year so it's not like he's going to denie.01:42
SpeedEvilmece: but I found it unusable in any but almost directly sunlit rooms.01:42
meceDyresen, well it's pretty obvious it's broken, so should be no problem even for one-time customers I'd think.01:42
Dyresenmece: yeah01:43
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ShadowJKwhich video codecs?01:46
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jebbawow. front cam is like 90% static colored pixels... Not even that low light  (running mirror)01:50
DocScrutinizer51yep01:51
javispedroah, better than n810's then.01:51
meceLOL01:51
SpeedEvilIt may be possible that it's not quite setup right in firmware01:51
jebbagonna be crap to encode for video conferencing.01:51
SpeedEvilso you might get some improvement01:51
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SpeedEviljebba: try moving it _right_next_ to a light, and it improves01:51
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil, I'd think so01:51
mecehas anyone tried the google-album-art-downloader? http://maemo.org/packages/view/google-album-art-downloader/01:52
* javispedro has some pictures that were taken ON SUNLIGHT and they're indistinguishable from static noise01:52
javispedro(n810 cam)01:52
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javispedrobasically -- I just tried video conferencing once then forgot about it01:52
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil, like "max ISPO/ASA, min exposure time"01:53
jebbai'm in a reasonably lit room with a 60W bulb like a foot from my face pointing at it and it's still pretty lam01:53
jebbalame01:53
jebbait's gotta be more than just the camera. Like above, something whacked in firmware01:54
SpeedEviljebba: yes - about 10* more light than that, and it gets sort-of-ok01:54
arachnistis there a way to grab video from the front cam like from the gack one?01:55
DocScrutinizer51is the cam driver open source?01:55
arachnistthe back one is accessible using mplayer tv://01:55
SpeedEvilas is the front01:56
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jebbait actually kind of looks ok in that i can see the detail of me, but it's almost like a video effect of pixels layered above a decent image01:56
SpeedEvilmplayer tv:// -tv device=/dev/video101:56
arachnistoh01:56
javispedrothe cam driver should be open source -- it's on the kernel after all01:56
SpeedEvil -fps 25 maybe too01:56
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DocScrutinizer51might try to find better config then01:57
jebbaoh rad, thx for mplayer hint.   /dev/video0 gets you back camera, video1 gets front01:57
AakashPatelsomeone help me fix my email signature problem01:57
AakashPatel:)01:57
farrel_antaresI've just installed the maemo 5 SDK. But I can't to find a repositories list to add some apps,. Does anyone can help me?01:58
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farrel_antaresI wanna install some web browser, but I cant find anyone.01:59
jebbafarrel_antares: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba01:59
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KenYoungDoes anyone know if there is a function call which can be made by C code to put the N900 in portrait mode?02:03
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* javispedro watches very confusing "no files" message in file manager when device is in g_storage mode02:06
simula_KenYoung... do you have the maemo sdk set up?02:06
KenYoungsimula, Yes, I can compile code with it, and it works.02:06
simula_there has to be something in the maemo sdk docs02:07
farrel_antaresjebba, thank you, It was I needing. I'll try out.02:08
jebbainteresting, the main camera supports these mplayer options, but the front camera doesnt:   "-tv brightness=50:contrast=50:hue=0:saturation=-100:gain=40:device=/dev/video0"02:10
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jebbachanging video0 to 1 works fine, but brightness and all that doesn't get changed on front camera02:10
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DocScrutinizer-8jebba: that's exactly part of the problem with abyssmal quality02:14
Gadgetoidwth do those options do?02:15
jebbai assume -vo is best?      Gadgetoid, well, pretty much what they say:  change brightness, contrast, gain, hue, etc.02:16
ali1234they set the parameters on the camera chip02:16
Gadgetoidahh02:16
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jebbathis was my old mirror script on Eee900, fwiw:  http://pastebin.ca/170491602:17
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jebbai assume -vo xv is best i should have said above.02:17
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Andy80hi all02:17
simula_hey andy02:18
Andy80hi :)02:18
Andy80all sleeping after #maebar :P ?02:18
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javispedrohi andy02:20
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javispedrona, too busy trying to mess with the device :)02:20
Andy80:D02:20
Andy80ok... my problem now is: I've probably talked with you at meeting, but cannot associate a name to a face :\02:21
javispedrodon't worry, the forgetfulness is mutual :)02:22
javispedroah, I think we didn't talk much though :P02:22
Andy80it's possible... I almost tried to help Thomas or talked with some spanish guys :P02:23
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AakashPatelwhats a good doc editor for maemo?02:25
AakashPatelthat supports graphs and stuff02:26
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DocScrutinizer-8openoffice? ;-P02:26
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AakashPatelLol is there OOo for maemo?02:27
DocScrutinizer-8actually dunno02:27
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javispedrothere's qole's chroot02:28
javispedrowhich contains certain version of debian, including openoffice02:28
DocScrutinizer-8well, it worked on my P-II/300 128MB toughbook, so...02:28
javispedrowell, it's slow as hell on my Athlon/1900 2048MB workstation, so... ;P02:29
DocScrutinizer-8yes, that as well XD02:29
javispedromaybe the 1.x versions were much faster?02:29
DocScrutinizer-8iirc v1.99 was kinda bearable (not more than one cig to smoke while opening a document)02:31
javispedrowow, Nokia PC Suite is 250MiB? what does it contain, an operating system?02:31
DocScrutinizer-8Mpeg help?02:32
KMFDMjavispedro, you sure you dont mean ovi suite02:32
javispedroheh02:32
javispedroKMFDM: it says "Nokia PC Suite 7.1.30.9"02:32
javispedrowhich is the latest one avail on nokia spain site..02:33
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KMFDMlet me see what version i have02:33
KMFDMmy installer was only 80 megs02:33
javispedrooh they're different programs actually02:33
javispedroyes, the installer is compressed.02:33
KMFDMyeah02:33
javispedrobut my hdd space is gone02:33
KMFDMi have nokia pc suite version 7.1.40.102:33
javispedrowell, how bad can 0.0.1 be?02:33
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javispedroah, it worked fine. it even gets the device picture.02:35
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simula_what filesystem type are you folks formatting your sdhc card as?02:37
jebbai formatted mine as ext3, but each time i boot up it complains it can't read it (which doesnt matter as i mount it manually)02:39
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ali1234how much do we know about the tv out?02:42
ali1234(on n900)02:43
BabelOhi ali123402:43
ali1234hi02:43
BabelOwhat are you looking for ?02:43
ali1234i'm wondering if it can do a real native unscaled PAL or NTSC mode with overscanning02:43
ali1234i'd guess it can't though, without rewriting the DSP code or something02:44
ali1234ideally I'd like to be able to feed it a X11 modeline :)02:44
BabelOok, i just tested all the rds stuff today :) but still looking for BCM2048 datasheet02:44
BabelOali1234: i uploaded qlandkartem to garage maemo :)02:45
ali1234don't think i've ever used it...02:45
BabelOali1234: about qlandkartem ? it is just new from today :) raster maps, you can use geotiff file02:47
ali1234isn't it the one that's always under discussion on #htc-linux?02:47
BabelOyes and we have our channel on #qlandkarte02:48
ali1234mapping isn't really my thing, i prefer to stay home and play video games :)02:49
BabelO:)02:49
ali1234but i demand pixel accurate representation of my emulated systems, hence the question :)02:49
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BabelOali1234: did you try the rds stuff of N900 ? trnasmitter and receiver ?02:51
DocScrutinizer-8simula: I created 3 partitions on my 16GB: 13.5 vfat, 2 ext3 with OM-SHR linux os, and 0.5 swap02:51
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ali1234BabelO: the FM? RDS as in FM digital text/station name/genre stuff?02:52
DocScrutinizer-8simula: seems maemo5 does a mount for vfat only atm, on boot / insertion of card02:53
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BabelOali1234: yes, i changed the RDS text displayed on my radio car, and looking to display mp3 tad on radio car now02:53
BabelOali1234: for the receiver i look to rds data to add TMC feature02:54
ali1234it can broadcast RDS? that's pretty neat02:54
ali1234you can spoof your signal to be a traffic update, and send it to nearby cars (with a amplifier of course)02:54
DocScrutinizer-8BabelO: that's awesome02:54
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BabelOali1234: yes,  wen you enbale the N900 fm transmitter02:55
BabelOit add a i2c device to /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-006302:55
ali1234yeah, i assumed it would transmit the analogue part only02:55
BabelOsomething like that02:55
BabelOand you can change the displayed text on fm radio with echo "testtestes" > rds_ps_name02:55
BabelOby default it display nokia02:56
DocScrutinizer-8BabelO: darn! share a pointer?02:56
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BabelODocScrutinizer-8:  ?02:56
ali1234that's really cool02:56
BabelOjust looking at drivers, that's all02:57
BabelOthe bigger interesting part is the fm receiver when you enable rds feature02:57
DocScrutinizer-8BabelO: do I need additional err... things ? where can I get?02:57
BabelODocScrutinizer-8: no additionnal thing required02:57
DocScrutinizer-8duh02:57
BabelOit is there02:57
DocScrutinizer-8amazing02:58
AakashPatelis there a good multiprotcol chat client for maemo?02:59
AakashPatelthat supports yahoo, facebook chat, etc?02:59
AakashPatellike pidgin :)02:59
AakashPatelhm there is a pidgin client ;003:00
AakashPatelaw :( not for os200903:00
ali1234i think pidgin is available in testing or devel03:00
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DocScrutinizer-8I think pidgin was on N900 ootb03:01
BabelOAakashPatel: you can just add the telepaty plugin and you will see all protocol natively available03:01
AakashPatelto the conversation app?03:01
BabelOAakashPatel: look at account-haze for msn for example03:01
BabelOAakashPatel: yes03:01
ali1234yeah, telepathy-haze03:02
AakashPatelso install the telepathy-haze package?03:02
BabelOyes03:02
ali1234something like that, yeah :)03:02
AakashPatelterminal here i come!03:02
ali1234it's in the app manager03:02
AakashPatelin extras?03:02
AakashPateli didnt see it :/03:02
ali1234or extras-testing, or extras-devel03:02
DocScrutinizer-8BabelO: where you got the info about the RDS interface and functions from? Just educated guess? :-)03:03
BabelODocScrutinizer-8: just reading the radio-bcm2048.c driver for the receiver part03:03
DocScrutinizer-8aah03:04
BabelOand just testing and some personnal knowledge on rds for the transmiter part03:04
DocScrutinizer-8sorce is the spec and the doc. As usual03:04
BabelODocScrutinizer-8: just look to /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-*03:04
AakashPatelaccount-plugin-haze?03:05
BabelOonce you enabled the device :)03:05
BabelOyou will understand yourself03:05
BabelOAakashPatel: yes this one03:05
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DocScrutinizer-8BabelO: thanks :-))03:05
AakashPatel:(03:05
AakashPatelit doesnt have facebook chat03:05
BabelOAakashPatel: haze is just for msn03:05
BabelOidle is for irc03:05
AakashPatelon ubuntu and stuff i forgot you have to install libpurple-facebook03:05
BabelOjabber is for jabber and others03:05
AakashPatelpurple/pidgin*03:05
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BabelOif you know a gateway on jabber for facebook03:06
BabelObut i think facebook use only webservices, maybe that's why it isn't in telepathy protocols03:06
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ali1234haze is actually for all libpurple protocols03:07
DocScrutinizer-8(FM-amp) quite problematic to almost impossible. you can't simply place the device next to antenna plugged to amp's input03:07
ali1234butterfly is the native telepathy msn03:07
AakashPatelfuck im a retard03:08
AakashPateli enabled the extras-devel03:08
AakashPateland it told me there were updates to some of my apps03:08
AakashPatel...i installed them03:08
jebbai do that all the time03:08
AakashPateli just uninsatlled the ones i updated03:09
AakashPateland disabled devel03:09
AakashPateland reinstalled03:09
fnordianslipits hard to remember if those things were installed from devel in the first place03:09
DocScrutinizer-8the more interesting Q is, how to undo that03:09
AakashPatelI uninstalled 'em03:10
jebbaany idea which kernel module is loaded for front camera?03:11
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jebbaboard_rx51_camera,omap34xxcam_mod,et8ek8,ad5820,adp1653,smia_sensor     one of them, i presume03:11
DocScrutinizer-8actually it's a PITA you can't select the source repo of packages that are in multiple repos03:12
BabelOAakashPatel: you have aMsn if you want to do MSN with webcam of N90003:12
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: tried apt-get install package=version ?03:13
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DocScrutinizer-8jebba: check for change of refcount when starting mirror?03:13
ali1234jebba: look in /sys/class/video4linux/03:13
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DocScrutinizer-8javispedro: actually not. Was somewhat limited in my perspective to app-manager03:14
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DocScrutinizer-8ali1234: right, isn't there a "driver" node telling name of driver?03:15
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ali1234somewhere in sys, yes03:15
jebba $ cat /sys/class/video4linux/video1/name03:16
jebbaomap3/vs6555//03:16
yuizyhmh, the network stopped working on my scratchbox03:16
jebbabut that doesnt appear to be the module03:16
yuizyi cannot install packages03:16
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DocScrutinizer-8jebba: o.O ??03:18
yuizyah the problem is with dns03:19
jebbarefcnt goes from 8 to 10 whichever camera I use in  omap34xxcam_mod03:20
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code177hrmm03:21
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yuizycan anyone help me with the networking problem?03:24
yuizyi see the right ip in /sbin/ifconfig and i can go to http://193.184.164.139 with the browser but cannot go to http://repository.maemo.org03:25
johnxyuizy, might need to copy your hosts resolv.conf in if you have DNS problems03:25
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jebbacheck /etc/resolv.conf03:25
johnxs/hosts/host's03:26
yuizyah thanks03:26
jebbaor just   `echo "nameserver 8.8.8.8 > /etc/resolv.conf"`03:26
yuizyok03:27
yuizydo i have to reset something now?03:27
johnxyou shouldn't need to03:27
DocScrutinizer-8<ope03:27
johnxmight need to restart whatever program you had open in the worst case03:27
DocScrutinizer-8check "host ct.de"03:28
DocScrutinizer-8should resolve now03:29
yuizyapt-get can't still find the repositories :(03:29
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DocScrutinizer-8does "host foo.com"  work?03:30
yuizyno such command03:30
jebbayuizy: does    ` host www.google.com 8.8.8.8 ` work?   if DocScrutinizer-8's command doesnt fly03:30
jebbaoh03:30
jebbaheh03:30
DocScrutinizer-88.8.8.8 ???03:31
zash8.8.8.8.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer google-public-dns-a.google.com.03:31
Ronaldo38741I found it to be pretty slow03:31
DocScrutinizer-8duh03:32
Ronaldo38741?03:32
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yuizyis there an alternative name for 'host'03:33
zashyuizy: name?03:33
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DocScrutinizer-8yuizy: ping ct.de03:33
zashdig @8.8.8.8 ct.de03:34
Ronaldo38741http://twitpic.com/s0vp103:34
yuizyno ping either :E03:34
yuizyno such command i mean03:34
DocScrutinizer-8name not found, dig not found03:34
johnxnslookup?03:34
DocScrutinizer-8huh??03:34
DocScrutinizer-80ing worked here03:34
DocScrutinizer-8ping even03:34
johnxDocScrutinizer-8, in the sdk or on the device?03:35
DocScrutinizer-8errr, device03:35
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DocScrutinizer-8sorry03:35
yuizyno nslookup03:35
DocScrutinizer-8/usr/sbin/* ?03:36
DocScrutinizer-8i.e. check path?03:36
yuizyi searched the whole fs03:38
yuizyno ping or nslookup or host03:38
DocScrutinizer-8:-/03:38
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yuizyargh03:39
yuizyno ideas?03:42
javispedrodid you install fakeroot-net?03:42
javispedroah, it's with the command line. nothing then.03:43
yuizyyep03:43
javispedrosbox holds a lot of copies of the resolv.conf file03:43
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yuizyand it worked but now i have different network environment03:43
javispedroI suggest you find all of them in /scratchbox and edit them03:43
yuizyah thanks03:43
VDVsxjavispedro, is your new shiny n900 working well ? :P03:43
javispedroyuizy: for example I remember there's one in /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf that the devkit tools use.03:44
javispedroVDVsx: so far, so good :)03:44
VDVsx:)03:44
* javispedro is loading nokia maps now03:44
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VDVsxugh03:44
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ShadowJK42% battery, 2.5 hours left out of 903:45
ShadowJKn900 might just make it03:46
javispedrogood luck.03:46
javispedroI really want to wish you good luck :)03:46
ShadowJKlol03:46
javispedro(cause up so far my greatest complain is battery life -- the battery meter was going down just too fast)03:46
ShadowJKi guess there's the risk that it goes 30 - 0 in one big leap :)03:47
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yuizyhey now it works03:47
yuizythanks everyone03:47
ShadowJKI just noticed I have huge scratch in the screen protector (duratec cleartec or something)03:47
javispedroyuizy: so which files you edited?03:47
javispedrowe should document this somewhere03:48
ShadowJKbig enough to impair readability.. looks like it's caused by finger-scrolling..03:48
yuizy/scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf made it work03:48
javispedrofinger sc03:48
javispedroou03:48
javispedrofinger scrolling causing scratches? O.o03:48
ShadowJKmaybe i should try the "self-healing" hitec version instead :)03:48
yuizyand then i also changed targets/FREMANTLE_*/etc/resolv.conf03:49
ShadowJKjavispedro: the scratches are exactly where i scroll, and same curve/length too03:49
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DocScrutinizer-8ShadowJK: (battery) on my test the device stayed alive for almost 90 minutes with backlight, on a battery showing 0% charge left03:52
javispedroouc03:53
javispedroI just realized that the n900 no longer exports the entire drive to g_storage but just a partition03:53
javispedro(thank god I didn't decide to fdisk it)03:54
ShadowJKlol03:54
johnxhuh. you should be able to do something like an extended partition, right?03:55
johnxI mean, isn't that how extended partitions work?03:55
javispedroI think not -- I mean, i believe extended partitions don't share the exact same header03:55
yuizybtw is it possible rotate the """""emulator""""" to portrait mode?03:55
javispedrobecause for example ext partitions don't have the 4 partition limit03:55
johnxvery true03:55
javispedroso I guess a fdisk-like program would be confused..03:56
code177alright. here's a question03:56
javispedro(most probably, would destroy the partition table :) )03:56
johnxyuizy, try passing a different resolution to Xephyr03:56
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code177im trying to install a .deb file of my own making on my n900.. it runs perfectly if i run it as root, but i cant run it as the regular user because it doesnt have access to create files in /opt/programname/..03:56
johnxjavispedro, probably just for that one partition though03:56
code177any ideas?03:57
code177:/03:57
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johnxcode177, yeah. the user shouldn't create files there03:57
code177where should the user create files then?03:57
javispedro$HOME03:57
johnx/home/user03:57
ShadowJKwhat kind of files is oit?03:57
johnxand for bigger files: /home/user/MyDocs03:57
ShadowJKiy*03:57
code177ok so MyDocs then03:57
code177right!03:57
code177thanks.. i'll try that now03:57
ShadowJKwhat kind of files?03:57
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code177.db and .png files03:58
johnxgenerally, user accessible things go in /home/user/MyDocs and settings files go in /home/user/.my-cool-app or similar03:58
johnxkeep in mind that /home/user/MyDocs will get pulled out from under your app if the user plugs in to USB and selects mass storage mode03:59
code177hmm ok03:59
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johnx...and also that /home/user/MyDocs is vfat, so you don't get to use permissions03:59
code177well that's fine.. the less the better in this case04:00
code177i just need to write image files04:00
code177lots of them04:00
code177so i guess ~/MyDocs/.program/  ?04:00
johnxshould the user be able to look at them directly? or are they "in progress"?04:00
ShadowJKis there some sort of magic gesture that starts the calendar? because I'm accidentally starting it rather often and I dont know how I' doing that04:01
code177the user can look at them if they want, if anything that's a benefit04:01
johnx/home/user/MyDocs/.images might be good then04:01
code177not for this :)04:01
johnxwhy not?04:02
code177half the reason i'm doing this is to keep them out of .images ;)04:02
javispedroso the user doesn't want to see them04:02
zerojaycode177: What are you trying to do?04:02
code177hang on let me test this04:02
code1772 mins04:03
* javispedro kills Nokia Map Loader04:03
javispedrodidn't do anything04:03
zerojaycode177: btw, it doesn't matter where your wallpaper files are at... the user WILL see them in the Images program anyway.04:03
johnxhmmm. kinda of a mixed bag. dunno if you really want to start your folder name with a . if you put it in MyDocs. Except for the folders that are already there, I think folders/files beginning with a . won't be visible in file manager04:03
johnxis there a situation where users might want to delete them manually?04:04
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Ronaldo38741I like deleting things04:05
code177ok building package..04:06
javispedroyou'll like rm04:06
code177nah 99% of people will be doing things indirectly04:06
code177that 1% arent going to be stopped by hidden folders04:06
johnxcode177, just throwing out a random scenario: say Bob tries the app, makes a whole bunch of pictures, removes the app and wants his space back?04:07
johnx(not really arguing either way, just throwing out random scenarios)04:07
Macerlol04:07
code177ya I've still gotta figure out how to do the uninstall stuff04:07
Maceri love eureka04:07
javispedroI think it's interesting to put them on .images/Wallpapers or the like04:07
Macerlexa doig is in this one haha04:08
code177hmm ya maybe04:08
johnxjavispedro, depends on if they get indexed in a way he doesn't want them to be04:08
code177well let's see if this works first04:08
javispedroas zerojay said, they will always be indexed04:08
javispedroand the system wallpapers are indexed so..04:08
code177ya im still skeptical about that04:09
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johnxwell, .hidden directories definitely aren't visible in filemanager04:10
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code177actually on a completely different brief side topic04:10
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johnxit won't even let you create directories with a . in front, which I guess is a "good thing"04:10
code177(whilst i do this)04:10
code177does anyone else find they have a massive craving for sugar after eating carbs?04:10
code177or is that just me04:10
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Ronaldo38741Just you04:10
code177i just noticed it just then04:10
code177anyway..04:10
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johnxI have a massive craving for beer and nachos...mmm04:11
Macerbeer and nachos? hahaha04:12
redeemani have a craving for bacon04:12
code177oh jees im retarded.. rebuilt the package without the new files04:12
* code177 facepalm04:12
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Vrathahi04:16
johnxhallo Vratha04:16
Vrathagot my n900 :)  now i need to figure out how to install an ssh server on it04:17
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Vrathanokia didn't setup any sources in /etc/apt/sources.list04:18
johnxVratha, go to downloads.maemo.org04:18
johnxsearch for ssh04:18
johnxclick to install (if you surf to it in the device)04:18
asidjazz0% [Connecting to repository.maemo.org]04:18
asidjazzrepos down?04:19
* johnx tests04:19
Vrathajohnx: will do.  i take it they have instructions up there for adding a deb source?04:19
johnxwell if you want to do it manually, you can go to http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras04:20
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johnxbut they have a "click to install" file that automagically adds the repo and tells the "app manager" (apt frontend) to apt-get the right thing04:20
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zerojaycode177: It doesn't matter if you make your files hidden or the directory they are in hidden... they will still be indexed and will still show up in Images regardless of what we do.04:21
Vrathajohnx: hmm, i will check it out.  thanks for the info.  if i click to install it'll add a permanent entry into the sources.list?04:21
javispedroExtras is on the device04:21
javispedrojust disabled on the app mgr04:21
johnxVratha, yeah04:21
javispedroso you can go to to the app mgr and go to menu -> repositories/catalogues -> extras -> enable04:22
johnxalso, you should listen to javispedro as well. I totally forgot it was already there :)04:22
javispedro(if you don't want to use the web interface)04:22
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* javispedro is busy merging contacts04:22
Vrathajohnx: sweet!  i'll try that first then and go from there.  thanks for the links and info04:23
javispedrocorrelating ten year old SIM card contacts with more recent gtalk+skype contacts is fun stuff04:23
* zerojay is busy waiting for Nokia to tell him what to do with his dead N900. :/04:23
code177side question04:23
code177the cpu monitor widget thing04:23
johnxugh. had to do that already. now my n900 is the definitive source for all my contacts...and I badly need to figure out a way to get that info imported into evolution on my desktop or something ...04:23
code177with the little squares04:23
arachnistjavispedro: i know the pain04:23
code177is there something that tells us what those mean?04:23
johnxload-applet?04:23
zerojayleft = cpu use, right memory use04:24
zerojayleft = cpu use, right = memory use04:24
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code177thanks :)04:25
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code177i still have to write up my report on santa clara =s04:25
asidjazzErr http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk Release.gpg Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'04:25
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asidjazzcidjazz@ubuntu:~$ ping repository.maemo.org04:26
asidjazzPING a515.g.akamai.net (207.114.197.94) 56(84) bytes of data.04:26
asidjazz..?04:26
johnxseems to work here, but different akamai nodes seem to fall over at different times of day :|04:26
asidjazzsigh04:27
asidjazzcan i reboot the vm at this point?04:27
* code177 <3 n90004:27
asidjazzand just /scratchbox/login after i boot up?04:27
tadthebuilderzerojay what happened to kill your n900?04:27
johnxyeah, I think so04:27
code177you're ahead of the game asidjazz04:27
code177i was developing for about 6 weeks before i discovered /scratchbox/login lol04:27
zerojaytadthebuilder: I had a prototype, given to me before Summit. Micro USB port solder points broke... so I can't charge it anymore.04:28
tadthebuilderah04:29
Vrathazerojay: you have a dead n900?  was it DOA?04:29
tadthebuilderthat would be a problem04:29
javispedrotadthebuilder: and you're not the only with that issue, which is something to worry about...04:29
javispedroerrr.04:29
javispedro^^zerojay04:29
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tadthebuilderhaha04:29
tadthebuildermy issue is no money04:29
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zerojayVratha: No, I had my N900 for three months or so already.04:30
zerojayjavispedro: Yeah, Texrat also... anyone else?04:30
javispedrono one that I know of so far.04:30
javispedro(only texrat)04:31
tadthebuilderis it possible to buy a external charger?04:31
tadthebuilderi know i know04:31
tadthebuildernot a good solution04:31
tadthebuilderbut04:31
tadthebuilder...04:31
Sir_LancelotHi there fellows04:31
Sir_Lancelot:)04:31
zerojayThat's only half the problem fixed.04:31
javispedroyes, one using microwaves to recharge the battery04:31
javispedroor magic04:31
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Pavlovkeeping track of power microusb power cables seems to be a full time job04:32
tadthebuilderwhat would be the other half04:32
asidjazzjohnx: so repository.maemo.org is up for you?04:32
johnxasidjazz, yeah. just downloaded from it04:32
johnxis the web page up for you at http://repository.maemo.org ?04:33
Sir_Lancelotdoes anyone know a couple of webpages where I can search for apps for n900?04:33
Sir_Lancelot:D04:33
asidjazzjohnx: how come i can ping it via another shell?04:33
jebbaasidjazz: i got 30k/sec downloading the kernel sources....04:33
johnxSir_Lancelot, http://downloads.maemo.org04:33
asidjazzjohnx: maybe my file in /etc/ file is messed up04:33
asidjazzsources.list04:33
Pavlovwish i could make the n900 pull more power over usb04:33
Oli``My power converter (nokia->microusb) just started squeaking (!!) after being in the phone for an hour or so... Is that normal/hilarious/dangerous?04:33
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Sir_Lancelotit's ok Oli04:33
Sir_Lancelotdon't worry04:34
johnxlike, it squeaks while sitting there, plugged in? or squeaks when you remove it?04:34
javispedroand also please rate the intensity of the sound :)04:34
Oli``Just when it's having power sucked through it04:34
ShadowJKsqueaks plugged in04:34
ShadowJKmine does that too sometimes04:34
johnxaaah, like the transformer in the power brick makes a high pitched "screaming" sound, or the N900 makes the sound?04:35
Sir_Lancelotseems like you guys have a n90004:35
Oli``Very low volume, high-pitched squeak that sort of oscillates in volume. Hard to describe other than to say: it's a bit like having a cricket in your room04:35
ShadowJKthe converter make high-ish pitched sound04:35
johnxSir_Lancelot, guilty as charged04:35
Sir_Lancelotthat's great, because I would like to make a couple of questions, as I'm about to buy one04:35
Sir_Lancelot:P04:35
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Sir_Lancelotand throw my HTc HD2 to the garbage can04:36
Sir_Lancelot:D04:36
johnxSir_Lancelot, alright. ask away :)04:36
ShadowJKwhat's wrong with hd2 btw?04:36
Sir_Lancelotbut before, I need to know those things that usually the reviews neve rmention04:36
asidjazzjohnx: im wondering if mybe my scratchbox shell is lacking internet04:36
PavlovSir_Lancelot: you can send your hd2 this way ;)04:36
Pavlovi almost like mine, will take another;)04:36
johnxasidjazz, ah. that's very possible. or at least lacking DNS04:36
Sir_LancelotHD2 is sllugish my friend...04:36
asidjazz[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > /sbin/ifconfig04:36
asidjazzSIOCGIFCONF: Bad address04:36
asidjazz[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] >04:36
Sir_Lancelothuge hardware, but software is still shit..04:36
Sir_Lancelotafter all this time, it's still shit...04:37
Pavlovwindows mobile?04:37
Pavlovwhat do you expect?04:37
Sir_Lancelota miracle04:37
Sir_Lancelot:D04:37
Pavlovgive it some more time04:37
Sir_Lancelotwell....I was naive...I admit it...04:37
Sir_Lancelot:D04:37
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Pavlovthey need to upgrade the kernel, to at least the ce6 one04:37
Sir_Lancelotyeah04:37
Pavlovthe hw on the hd2 is great though04:38
Pavlovthe screen looks and feels great04:38
asidjazzjohnx: how can i check w/ no ping or telnet :)04:38
johnxthe N900 has huge potential, and it does a lot of things great already, but don't buy it based on what you think it might do or assume that it has some app just because android or WinMo have it04:38
Sir_Lancelotit's amazing ... not even this huge cpu solves the problem...04:38
Pavlovthe camera sticking out is a little weird04:38
javispedroasidjazz: you are doing dangerous things. If you have DNS problems check out a discussion we had like an hour ago04:38
PavlovSir_Lancelot: it makes a pretty big different04:38
Sir_LancelotI'm more business focus04:38
Pavlovthe hd2 is much faster than most winmo devices04:38
johnxSir_Lancelot, so you need exchange sync (or whatever it's called)?04:39
Sir_LancelotI need a device with good funcionality on what business is concerned04:39
Sir_Lancelotyes04:39
Sir_Lancelotbut not only04:39
* ShadowJK doubts n900 is for you04:39
Sir_LancelotI need to sync all taks, calendar, contacts and so on from Outlook...via cable04:39
johnxit works pretty well with exchange 2007, but not 2003 or google (from what I've heard)04:39
Sir_Lancelotnot via exchange04:39
johnxaaah, I have no idea about syncing directly to outlook04:40
johnxthat might be a no-go04:40
Pavlovjohnx: yeah, it only supports the latest AS protocol04:40
Sir_Lancelotdoes it sync via cable?04:40
javispedrodoes it sync?04:40
Pavlovdoes pc suite do it?04:40
javispedroall I got from pc suite was garbage04:40
asidjazzjavispedro: how can i make sure its dns04:40
javispedroasidjazz: it is a resolve error isn't it?04:40
asidjazzn/m found it04:41
asidjazzi duno but i have odd ip's in /etc/resolv.conf im gonna fix04:41
Dyresendig <hostname here> usualy gives you all dns info you want04:41
Sir_Lancelotnot only I need it to sync direclty all the shit with Outlook, I also need it so make all rmeoinders and alarms of it04:41
johnxSir_Lancelot, you very well might be out of luck04:41
Sir_Lancelotif it makes this, I'll buy it tomorrow04:41
Sir_Lancelotnoooooooooooo04:41
Sir_Lancelot:(04:41
javispedroyeah, the calendar is semiuseless for power-calendar-users04:41
asidjazzhmm that didnt fix it04:42
Sir_Lancelotwhy?04:42
asidjazzjavispedro: i dont konw if its a resolve or a netowrk error04:42
javispedroso I'd guess it would be totally useless for power-calendar-business-users04:42
johnxjavispedro, works pretty well with invites sent from iCal users. heh04:42
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johnxbut yeah, the PIM is still a little "light"04:42
javispedrojohnx: and from what I've seen i'll will be mostly fine with it -- but it has lest features than the original 1991 palmos one04:42
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johnxPalmOS in 1991?04:43
javispedrobah04:43
Sir_Lancelotwhat do you mean by light PIM?04:43
javispedroyou'll make me check the date now04:43
Sir_Lancelotno appointment support?04:43
johnxpretty light on features04:43
Sir_Lancelotno alarms?04:43
Sir_Lancelotno cable sync with outlook?04:44
Sir_Lancelotno taks?04:44
Sir_Lancelotno notes?04:44
johnxit has alarms, and events, but no direct sync with outlook AFAIK04:44
johnxlots of good notes apps actually04:44
Sir_Lancelotshiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttttttttttt04:44
javispedroalarms hardcoded to at most 15 minutes before the event04:44
johnxthat's where it really shines04:44
asidjazzjohnx: where is the thread that talks about dns/netowrk issues w/ scratchbox04:44
asidjazzis this normal :04:44
asidjazz[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > /sbin/ifconfig04:44
asidjazzSIOCGIFCONF: Bad address04:44
Pavlovwinmo is where you're going to have the best sync with outlook04:44
johnxasidjazz, sorry. I have no idea. I don't use scratchbox04:44
Pavlovperiod04:44
Sir_Lancelotwith previous S60 devices04:44
Sir_LancelotI had the same funcionality as with WinMo04:45
johnxMaemo is as different from S60 as S60 is from PalmOS404:45
asidjazzsigh04:45
Sir_Lancelotthat's why I ike it so much04:45
asidjazzjohnx: you mean you hvaent messed w/ the sdk? or theres an alternative to sbox?04:45
Sir_Lancelotdon't understand why business devices can't be ebntertaining as well04:46
javispedroasidjazz: you're trying to change your host ip stack settings using an armel binary from another operating system era04:46
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Sir_Lancelotfor exmaple: great device...lot of apps and so on...but for business, it sucks big time!04:46
johnxit's an N series. so I guess Nokia is pushing it towards non-business people, and keeping S60 for business04:46
javispedro(yes I consider debian sarge THAT old)04:46
crashanddie_mbpaww04:47
Sir_Lancelotstupid people....why can't a business phone, be fun as well?04:47
crashanddie_mbpdon't badmouth the sarge04:47
johnxSir_Lancelot, huh. which one?04:47
Sir_LancelotI'm criticising iphone04:47
Sir_Lancelotwhich is a nice device04:47
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Sir_Lancelottons of fun apps and so on04:47
Sir_Lancelotbut in the end, for business, it sucks04:48
johnxasidjazz, haven't messed with it since diablo or chinook or something. I don't package for maemo anymore. It was pushing my sanity to close to breaking. But, let me see if I can dig up the thread on talk.maemo.org, though you'd probably have the same luck as me ...04:48
Sir_Lancelotand seems like n900 is following the same path04:48
javispedroit's called "following the masses"04:48
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javispedrojust keep exploiting wince until it dies04:48
javispedrothen get used to the basically lower-featured alternatives04:48
johnxSir_Lancelot, I'm not sure if it's following the same path. Maemo ends up with better PIM every release. Maemo 4 didn't have a calendar ... at all04:48
javispedroand try to make the best with the rest of the features :)04:49
johnx(or at least not one from Nokia. plenty of interesting 3rd party stuff)04:49
Sir_Lancelotaren't there any 3rd party PIM for n900?04:50
javispedrothere are, but none of them really are up to what you're asking04:50
johnxnot yet04:50
johnxbeen out for like a week so far04:50
javispedrowell there's GPE already04:50
johnxoops. totally forgot that was on maemo 5 already04:51
johnx(even though I saw it in the repo)04:51
javispedroi was trying to get it until I decided the builtin calendar would do for now :)04:51
johnxbut yeah, making a calendar that syncs with outlook isn't what free-software hackers tend to do in their down-time :)04:51
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ersinhi all04:51
johnxallo ersin04:52
arachnisttoo bad google servers don't implement exchange properly. "mail would be more useful"04:52
ersindoes anyone have any debian rules files experience?04:52
javispedrognite :)04:52
ersinor makefile experience i guess?04:52
arachnistmail for exchange"*04:52
johnxersin, a bit04:52
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johnxasidjazz, uhm. from outside scratchbox, look at /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf04:53
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ersinjohnx: i'm trying to compile a program that requires libtool 2.2, whereas the scratchbox diablo version is older...so, ideally i'd like to make a new package for it, but scratchbox won't overwrite its dev tools since it stores them outside of the environment...thus, i'm trying to figure out how to set the PATH within the debian rules file while running configure04:54
* Arkenoi have seen just one mobile PIM that was powerful "enough", Agendus, and PalmOS version only, wm was different and worse04:54
johnxersin, can you just call whatever utility you need with the full path name? (kind of a hack, I realize)04:55
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ersinjohnx: eh not really, it's more like autoconf requires a certain libtool m4 macro that doesn't exist in maemo's version of libtool04:56
johnxArkenoi, yeah. I think I started on like PalmOS 3.x (whichever one supported color), getting used to the PIM and then being totally shocked when everything after that was worse04:56
ersinjohnx: hmm actually i just ran "which libtool", and now i'm wondering if i just compiled a new version with --prefix=/targets/links/arch_tools/bin as opposed to --prefix=/bin...04:57
johnxersin, so maybe I'm being dumb, but can you just call libtool explicitly when you need it? or maybe include the macro (.m4 file, right?) in the top directory of the source package?04:57
jebbawhat is the "upstream" for the n900 kernel?  I assume they aren't just working directly on vanilla 2.6.28.   Is there some ARM git repo or something they track?04:57
hotaru2k3does garnetvm work on maemo 5?04:57
Arkenoijohnx: that always make me wonder: PIM is the thing that is most important for mobile devices and it is so poorly implemented and has just basic functionality everywhere04:58
johnxjebba, probably linux-omap04:58
asidjazzjohnx: you rule04:58
johnxArkenoi, I get the feeling that it doesn't sell devices or at least marketing thinks it doesn't04:58
johnxor maybe no one has any idea what "good PIM" is these days04:58
ersinjohnx: probably including the macro would be alright, but it feels like a major hack...what if upstream changes and requires a new version of the macro?  i'd have to update each time04:58
johnxArkenoi, but yeah, it's kind of a weird situation...04:58
jebbabecause it has patches to things like reiserfs, and i doubt they are bothering with thigns like that, so some upstream is likely changing that and they are inheriting it.04:58
ersinjohnx: i mean all the solutions will be hacks, unless i figure out a way to overwrite scratchbox's default dev tools04:59
asidjazznokia maps is the slowest app ive ever seen on anything ever04:59
Arkenoijohn: i've heared quite popular opinion that agendus was "overwhelmed with useless functions" :-/05:00
johnxersin, if you overwrite scratchbox's dev tools you might be in for a lot more pain than just copying a .m4 in place (or it might work with no problem. who knows? :) )05:00
Sir_LancelotI have the same feeling johnx...PIM is not having the same attention from the manufacturers, as they used to have..05:00
ersinjohnx: fair 'nuff =) i'll try that, thanks05:00
johnxwell, they're phones or handhelds or internet talbets now, not personal digital assistants05:00
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Arkenoiasidjazz, that probably means you never owned a 9k series communicator before ;-)05:01
Sir_Lancelotwith the hardware they are having, they could be all those05:01
johnxersin, I don't usually encourage hacks when there's a reasonable fix. but playing around with scratchbox is a deep rabbit hole :)05:01
johnxSir_Lancelot, it's not the hardware, and you of all people should know that :P05:01
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johnxasidjazz, working for you now?05:03
johnxhotaru2k3, actually, I know it's not officially available...but it *might* with some hacking05:04
johnxanyone here played with funambol before?05:06
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AakashN900is there an app in extras or something to look at the fronht cam05:08
johnxmirror05:08
AakashN900what repo05:09
AakashN900devel?05:09
johnxmaybe?05:09
Sir_Lancelotanother question: how is 3rd party software going for maemo?05:09
redeemani think just extras05:09
redeemanSir_Lancelot: i've written a simple application maemo lacks: a stopwatch05:09
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johnxSir_Lancelot, pretty good, IMHO :)05:10
Sir_Lancelotare previous maemo versions apps supported by maemo 5?05:10
johnxredeeman, I just used it the other day05:10
johnxSir_Lancelot, through some minor reworking, but not directly05:10
AakashN900ah yea in extras05:10
redeemanjohnx: do you know what will happen with maemo 6? since its gonna be mainly Qt, are they gonna remove support for the old sh**, or keep it around?05:10
Sir_Lancelotare there any good forums and so on...a community for meamos like there is the Xda for WinMo devices?05:11
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johnxredeeman, I think the gtk stuff will be "community supported," so ... dunno how that will end up05:11
hotaru2k3anyone here use usb networking on an n810?05:11
redeemanim kinda hoping it will be moved into something optional05:11
AakashN900ah yea in extras05:11
AakashN900what the hell05:11
AakashN900its sooo blurry05:11
johnxSir_Lancelot, almost everything maemo is on maemo.org right now05:11
AakashN900why is it this horrid?05:12
johnxtalk.maemo.org for forums, downloads.maemo.org for apps, and now we have maemo.org/support05:12
Sir_Lancelottomorrow I'm gonna search some stores where I can try the device05:12
Sir_Lancelotcheck those PIM limitations that you mention05:13
AakashN900johnx is this normal?05:13
Sir_Lancelotand find out if I can live with them, with the expectation that they will be overcome in the future05:13
AakashN900for such an awful image quality?05:13
johnxAakashN900, dunno. never used the front camera. did you clean your screen before using it? :)05:13
AakashN900yeah lol05:14
AakashN900i mean this is *horrible*05:14
johnxSir_Lancelot, you will be very disappointed if you think someone will write a PIM that syncs to Outlook05:14
redeemanim a tad disappointed in the imap support05:14
johnxAakashN900, yeah. it's for little "postage stamp" sized video chat, not photography05:15
redeemanfor instance, it won't save sent messages on the server, and it won't show my folders (possibly because they are in the INBOX. namespace)05:16
redeemanthat's really my only complaints05:16
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johnxwon't save sent on the server? weird. I think mine is doing that without me even setting anything05:16
redeemanprobably because my sent folder is in that namespace then05:16
redeemanmy imap server is dovecot, which is one of the few imap servers that's actually 100% compliant05:17
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arachnisthttp://qdb.us/299740 <| did that happen here? ;>05:17
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redeemanhaha05:17
johnxwas just setting up dovecot the other day. I think there are plenty of options for configuring the namespace stuff05:17
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redeemanyes but i have already configured that, and now i cannot change it or other connecting clients are gonna go baserk :)05:18
jebbanew ofono release   :)05:18
redeemanjohnx: namespace private { prefix = INBOX. inbox = yes } i think this is what makes it not be happy05:19
redeemanjohnx: another dude inhere told me his did not save sent mails on server aswell05:20
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johnxhuh. well let me test it then. I thought I was seeing them, but maybe that's from other clients I use with this account05:20
redeemanif theres some magic i can do to fix this without breaking the config for other clients it would be great05:21
johnxyup. positive that it's working with gmail05:22
johnxbut I do seem to have *3* "Sent" folders05:22
redeemaninterresting05:23
johnxone of them is from my N800 w/ modest. One is from gmail's webmail interface and one is from my N90005:23
redeemani could live with that though05:23
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johnxmaybe let the N900 keep them in a non-namespace folder? (probably showing my ignorance of IMAP here)05:25
redeemanthey arent on the server, fgrepped the entire maildir05:25
johnxcould the server be refusing to let the N900 create some folder outside the namespace?05:26
redeemanquite possibly05:26
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Sir_LancelotI'm hopping that NOKIA will improve PIM features on further firmware releases...05:27
johnxSir_Lancelot, so were N8x0 owners05:27
Sir_Lancelotyou really don't we to encourage me don't you?05:28
Sir_Lancelot :d05:28
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johnxI'm "managing expectations" :P05:28
asidjazzFailed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/nokia-binaries/4bc37c7c77ebe90177c050b805a8dc79/nokia-binaries/m/maemo-af-desktop-l10n/maemo-af-desktop-l10n-itit_6.0+r7237+0m5_all.deb  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 207.114.197.95 80]05:28
redeemanits not as if it would be hard to improve stuff ALOT05:28
asidjazzshould i care?05:28
johnxbetter that you're thrilled later when against all odds they fix things than totally pissed off later because I didn't tell you the whole truth now05:29
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johnxalso: stop hopping or you'll wake up the people downstairs :D05:29
johnxredeeman, I'm digging into the way it syncs stuff right now actually. I'm quite interested :)05:30
redeemantheres lots of minor things that i think could easily be made better, but theres no way im touching any gtk stuff, and im not sure that stuff is opensource05:30
redeemanoh also05:30
redeemanit didn't wanna fetch my contacts from my SE phone via bluetooth05:30
johnxyeah. I made the mistake of adding some contacts, then syncing from my SIM later05:31
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luke-jr#FreeHandheld ftw05:31
Sir_Lancelotbut, if n900 uses PC Suite to sync05:32
redeemanjohnx: well atleast the contact thing could import vcards05:32
Sir_Lancelotwhy doesn't it sync outlook then?05:32
johnxluke-jr, riiight then05:32
luke-jrjohnx: you gotta admit, there IS a market that wants a free software handheld/phone05:32
johnxSir_Lancelot, uhm. not disagreeing, but why would it sync to outlook just because it syncs to PC suite?05:32
redeemanpc suite might do it?05:33
johnxluke-jr, yup. and many of them are willing to compromise, while some of them are totally obstinate. The obstinate ones are still stuck without cell phones05:33
Sir_Lancelotif not ith Outlook, then with what would Pc suite sync then?05:33
luke-jrjohnx: and the company that satisfies the obstinate ones will earn a market to themselves05:33
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redeemanit just doesn't seem as though nokia is fully comitted to N90005:34
luke-jrjohnx: also, your terms are flawed, as "free software handheld" is itself a compromise05:34
johnxredeeman, ah. that would be interesting, but I have no way to test either of those things here :)05:34
redeemanjohnx: i imported my contacts by transferring them from my SE phone to my workstation via bluetooth and kmobiletools, then i obex sent the file to my N900, which imported it05:35
redeemanit also appears to have export capability05:35
redeemansomething the calender applications lacks05:35
johnxluke-jr, yes. they will earn a market full of cheap, zealots who will probably put them on gplviolations.org at the slightest transgression. and instead of creating interesting apps they'll port 10 different linux distros to the device, none of them finished enough to be interesting to "normal" users in any way. Any of that sound familiar?05:36
luke-jrjohnx: free software supporters are not necessarily cheap05:36
luke-jrand no, it doesn't sound familiar because nobody has ever made such a device05:36
johnxopenmoko? zaurus?05:36
redeemani think you will find that if someone made a fully open thing, i would shell down FAR more money than i have given nokia for the N90005:37
johnxredeeman, would you shell out the cash even without finished software?05:37
crashanddie_mbpwell, unless you're willing to give a few million dollars, they're going to need more incentive than one lonely bloke with a good credit card rating05:37
redeemanthat depends on what the state is, i need it to work, i don't mind if its not "user ready"05:38
luke-jrjohnx: you know very well Zaurus was the exact opposite of a free software handheld05:38
redeemanbecause i can and would fix most of that05:38
luke-jrjohnx: OpenMoko doesn't fit my definition of handheld05:38
crashanddie_mbpthen get to work on the N90005:38
crashanddie_mbpit's on open platform, you can fix most of the things people are complaining about -- get coding05:38
johnxluke-jr, and yet, in its own lifetime the zaurus had a fully open 2.6 kernel05:38
crashanddie_mbpor pick up on starting to port mer to the N90005:38
luke-jrcrashanddie_mbp: it's not open, no05:38
redeemancrashanddie_mbp: arent most of the applications on the n900 closed still?05:38
luke-jrjohnx: you mean long past its lifetime05:38
johnxluke-jr, no I actually don't05:39
redeemanalso, arent those applications dying, aka, gonna be replaced with brand new Qt ones in maemo 6?05:39
luke-jrredeeman: the apps aren't the problem, the drivers are05:39
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johnxit had 2.6 before the 770, unless I'm quite mistaken05:39
luke-jrjohnx: and?05:39
asidjazzany1 here have hte sdk properly setup?05:40
asidjazzvia the faq?05:40
asidjazzerr tutorial?05:40
crashanddie_mbpasidjazz: no, it fails05:40
crashanddie_mbpasidjazz: you talking about the af-sb-init.sh start failing with massive segfaults and whatnot?05:40
johnxluke-jr, and it ended up with like 4-5 unfinished distros, then sputtered out. The openmoko ended up exactly the same way. Do you think that's a coincidence?05:40
asidjazzcrashanddie_mbp: i dont even hvae af-sb-init.sh from the nokia binaries install05:41
crashanddie_mbpasidjazz: oh, so you were just unlucky with the servers, run the scripts again05:41
asidjazzi am05:41
Sir_Lancelotwell guys, it's 3:41 a.m here05:41
Sir_Lancelothave a nice day/night05:41
Sir_Lancelotsee you later05:41
johnxyou too05:41
Sir_Lancelot[[]]05:41
luke-jrjohnx: 2.6 was only even half working after the Zaurus was a dead product05:41
luke-jrOpenMoko suffered from closed (firmware) components, IIRC05:42
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johnx"suffered"? is that why people made like 5 different non-finished distros?05:42
jebbajohnx: doesnt appear to be based on linux-omap 2.6.28,  as that has more recent changes than what is in nokia's linux-2.6.28  (e.g. in likely irrelevant places, such as reiserfs)05:42
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luke-jrjohnx: if I need to write all the userland software myself, I can.05:43
luke-jrjohnx: all I want is a decent hardware platform I can use05:43
johnxjebba, huh. that's somewhat interesting. let me dig for a sec05:43
jebbai was just using this change for a reference    a9dd364358fbdc68faee5d20c2d648c320dc3cf005:44
redeemanit also seems to me nokia somehow screwed up really bad on only having 256mb ram on the n90005:44
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johnxluke-jr, companies need to subsidize production costs. They do that by having a slightly wider target demo than "totally obsessed open source zealots"05:44
luke-jrredeeman: afaik, it's not even possible to have more than 256 MB RAM on OMAP305:44
redeemanthat would explain that then05:44
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redeemanim also somewhat surprised at how much ram the n900 is using05:45
luke-jrjohnx: those who don't care certainly won't mind the openness05:45
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johnxversions of the OMAP3 PoC w/ 512MB are a very recent occurrence05:45
luke-jrjohnx: and by closing parts, they cut off some of the best developers05:45
luke-jrjohnx: plus, none of these compromise-of-a-compromise platforms have finished *one* half-complete OS either05:45
luke-jr5 half-complete distros is better than barely 105:46
johnxluke-jr, those who don't care about openness, do care about having a working device. So far I haven't seen a device that's both open and working out-of-the-box. And I've seen it too many times to call it a coincidence05:46
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redeemanjohnx: the problem is that nobody makes the hardware05:46
redeemanjohnx: and i don't just mean put together the specific product05:47
luke-jrjohnx: SmartQ and OpenMoko are the only open devices I know of, and SmartQ works fine AFAIK. So that's 1 of 205:47
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johnxluke-jr, uh huh. your version of "works" and mine are quite different05:47
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luke-jrjohnx: not a single company has built a handheld hardware platform with open drivers, and put up a bounty contest for an OS05:48
johnxah. yup05:49
redeemanor atleast freely available hardware documentation05:49
luke-jrby that I mean, a bounty of the usual software development budget, with minimum requirements and the company selecting from candidates that make that requirement05:49
luke-jrthen shipping the production device with the winning OS05:49
johnxluke-jr, no handheld company, but how about the Neuros guys?05:49
jebbahmm. i'm looking at the kernel source to this thing. looks pretty damn open to me.05:49
luke-jrjohnx: IIRC that wasn't open either05:49
johnxit was more open than closed05:50
luke-jrjohnx: I know one of their lead developers personally.05:50
redeemanjebba: how about the driver for the powervr sgx?05:50
luke-jrjebba: not all drivers are in the kernel05:50
johnxthe kernel part is open. the userspace libgl is closed05:50
luke-jrjebba: Nokia likes to make thin userland wrappers05:50
jebbause it in VESA mode :)05:51
redeemanjohnx: which effectively makes it impossible to use without their nonfree blobs05:51
luke-jrjebba: if you remove all the closed software, the N900 will not be able to charge its battery, do 3D or video acceleration, and probably not GPS or phone05:51
AakashN900could i just take libpidgin-facebook and crosscompile it for arm and install it on the phone and my conversations app will get facebook chat?05:51
johnxredeeman, very true05:51
luke-jrredeeman: you can live without 3D perhaps, but not without battery charging05:51
redeemanjohnx: when theres even a single of such thing, that will totally destroy what the free software people might do05:51
redeemanjohnx: that THAT is why not a single device has succeeded05:52
luke-jrAakashN900: no, because N900 doesn't use crappy Pidgin stuff AFAIK05:52
johnxredeeman, which is why linux didn't get going until every mobo maker open sourced their BIOS?05:52
jebbaexactly.05:52
crashanddie_mbpguys05:53
crashanddie_mbpget the fuck out with the trolling and arguing05:53
redeemanjohnx: fortunately that cannot be compared, the bios inits stuff and turns over control to linux, in my example we have to suffer constantly through the closed crap05:53
luke-jrjohnx: bad logic.05:53
luke-jrjohnx: notice I didn't list NOLO05:53
redeemancrashanddie_mbp: theres no trolling, this is a discussion05:53
jebbacrashanddie_mbp: do you know offhand which kernel source nokia uses for upstream?  johnx suggested linux-omap, but that didn't quite seem to be it AFAICT.05:53
luke-jrjebba: AFAIK, N900 dev is probably from mainline05:54
crashanddie_mbpnot off-hand05:54
crashanddie_mbpbut I have it in an email somewhere, lemme check05:54
asidjazzcrashanddie_mbp: dang dood i tihnk its working for me05:55
asidjazzit started up05:55
asidjazzi clicked apps05:55
asidjazzshows apps05:55
jebba:)05:55
johnxok, so let's do something more constructive: let's say I'll give you the point that having source to all the drivers is better in some way: What do you do to encourage hackers to move one distro for a handheld forward instead of fracturing into 5 different ones?05:55
luke-jrjohnx: you say that as if the fracturing is a bad thing05:56
johnxluke-jr, it depends on how many resources you have05:56
johnxresources being hacker/hours :)05:56
luke-jrjohnx: some hackers cannot work closely with each other05:57
luke-jrthe fractured distros eases that tension05:57
asidjazzthe _HACKERS_05:57
luke-jryet at the same time, the distros can (somewhat) collaborate and share stuff05:57
johnxand yet, maemo is the most cohesive group of hackers I've seen working on handheld stuff05:57
luke-jrthough I guess that might be compromised if they're all competing for a bounty05:57
* Arkenoi had a strong impression that it was a certification requirement for a gsm handset to be closed source and have restricted api not allowing user to send/recieve arbitrary frames over the radio05:58
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luke-jrreally? I don't know anyone outside Nokia working on Maemo05:58
luke-jrlast I checked community was mainly working on Mer05:58
johnxthe "Maemo ecosystem" I should say05:58
johnxMer is a part of that too, though I admit that Mer is reinventing the wheel in some ways05:58
luke-jrArkenoi: it's stricter than that, the ENTIRE software stack, every part of it, must be closed05:58
luke-jrArkenoi: that's why N900 and every other smartphone needs a seperate CPU for the real phone05:58
luke-jrand they talk to THAT via serial or whatever05:59
jebbaArkenoi: then why ofono?05:59
luke-jrbut I consider that must-be-proprietary-on-another-CPU blob to be firmware and thus exempt05:59
AakashN900hmmm luke-jr just looked it up...looks like it works with empathy/telepathy-haze06:00
luke-jrAakashN900: what does empathy have to do with it?06:00
luke-jrAakashN900: telepathy is a KDE project, not GNOME06:00
jebbait's kind of funny to watch this channel not seeing what luke-jr is saying06:00
AakashN900uh then their sites sretarded lol06:00
asidjazzare there any tutorials out there describing the steps to compiling and running apps in the sdk?06:03
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jebbahttp://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba  some there, brief06:06
asidjazzhmm06:07
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asidjazzUsing SDK?06:08
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jebbaya06:08
asidjazzi wanna compile and run https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/example_desktop_widget/06:08
jebbaasidjazz:   http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#SDK06:08
AakashN900and i want facebook chat :(06:09
jebbaasidjazz: can't yu just grab that, run autoconfigger and make?06:09
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asidjazzi already installed it all jebba06:09
asidjazzjebba: thats what im asking06:10
* asidjazz trys06:10
asidjazzwhats hte svn command again? :)06:11
johnxHas anyone looked at syncevolution for the N900?06:11
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johnxi think it holds a good probability of working ...06:11
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asidjazzah yea svn co06:11
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jebbarad, my kernel .deb built (no real mods to stock n900 kernel).   :)06:14
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ShadowJK30% battery in the end06:15
asidjazzjebba: thats all done but how do i run the app in my virtual maemo?06:16
asidjazzit doesnt even have internet06:16
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jebbauh, after it compiles, just run it.  Are you running xephyr?06:17
asidjazzyes06:17
AakashN900you should have net06:18
jebba ./example-widget  or whatever it is called06:18
asidjazzrun it via the scratch box?06:18
asidjazzoo06:18
jebbaya, int he scratchbox06:18
asidjazzAakashN900: no net06:18
AakashN900yo'z jacked up06:19
asidjazzhmm make completed successfully no binaries in the dir or src/06:19
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asidjazztheres a .o in src/06:19
asidjazz??06:21
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jebbauh06:22
jebbawhat URL did you svn co ?06:22
AakashN900im out06:22
AakashN900night06:22
jebbaciao06:22
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asidjazzURL: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/example_desktop_widget06:22
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jebbaasidjazz: no clue. There isnt a regular executable in there for me either.  is just widget, perhaps that's why   (?)06:25
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asidjazzjebba: how do you test widges?06:27
asidjazzwidgets*06:27
jebbadunno06:27
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jebbaya, widgets arent like regular executables to run, they get loaded by the desktop or some fella running around in yuour n90006:28
asidjazzso..06:29
asidjazzok how about if i have a sample as just a .c and .h file06:29
asidjazzgcc -o smaple sample.c def doesnt work06:29
asidjazzexample_banner.c:11:35: error: hildon/hildon-program.h: No such file or directory06:29
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jebbaasidjazz: dont you have libhildon1-dev installed?06:31
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asidjazzah i found http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK#Writing_GUI_Hello_World06:32
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asidjazzjebba: pretty sure i installed the sdk correctly .. shouldnt i?06:33
jebbadpkg -l libhildon1-dev06:33
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asidjazzgtk_helloworld.c:15:21: error: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory06:36
asidjazzlol06:36
jebbadpkg -l libhildon1-dev    asidjazz you got that?06:36
jebbaah, you probably gotta do the includes and stuff, anyhooo06:37
asidjazzyea esgfaults06:40
asidjazzloks like it06:41
asidjazz[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > dpkg -l libhildon1-dev06:41
asidjazzDesired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold06:41
asidjazz| Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed06:41
asidjazz|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)06:41
asidjazz||/ Name               Version            Description06:41
asidjazz+++-==================-==================-====================================================06:41
asidjazzii  libhildon1-dev     2.2.0-2+ultrastabl Hildon libraries development files06:41
asidjazzlol06:43
asidjazz[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > gcc -Wall -g gtk_helloworld-1.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0` -o gtk_helloworld-106:43
asidjazz/scratchbox/login: line 230: 22289 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) /scratchbox/sbin/chroot-uid /scratchbox/users/acidjazz /scratchbox/tools/bin/env - _SBOX_USER_GROUPNAME="$_SBOX_USER_GROUPNAME" _SBOX_DIR="$SBOX_PATH" PATH="$PATH" SBOX_REDIRECT_FROM_DIRS="$SBOX_REDIRECT_FROM_DIRS" SBOX_REDIRECT_TO_DIRS="$SBOX_REDIRECT_TO_DIRS" SBOX_PRELOAD="$SBOX_PRELOAD" HOME="$HOME" USER="$USER" TERM="$TERM" LOGNAME="$LOGNAME" _SBOX_RESTART_FILE="$_SBOX_RESTART_FIL06:43
johnxon the one hand: pastebin, please!06:48
johnxon the other hand: wow that's fubar06:48
asidjazzsorry06:49
asidjazzi figured it out06:49
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sivanghey all06:58
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sivangwhat's the way to access bash from the running mameo session under Xephyr ?06:58
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jebbahmm. So if one builds a kernel.deb, why can't that be installed.  The docs talk about flashing zImage, but not really about getting the kernel modules over to the n900.07:03
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johnxyou would copy the modules over manually I believe, then flash the kernel07:05
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jebbajohnx: hmm, but why not just install kernel_modules.deb ?07:06
johnxcause I don't trust that kind of stuff :)07:07
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jebbamaybe i'm reading some old docs or somethign  ?   http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide07:07
johnxwell of course, follow the guide over what I say. I thought you were stuck on how to proceed07:07
Macerhm07:09
Maceris there an alternative to X ?07:09
Macerfor "open" operating systems? :)07:09
jebbawell, it kind of leaves that part out. It does talk about *other* modules (e.g. if you have some weird new usbdevice or somethingyou want to attach), but the current running kernel uses tons of modules. It just sort of leaves that part out.  And copying them over is a bit of a mess too--it's not like they are all just sitting in one place--except for in the deb.07:10
asidjazzf tihs apt crap im installing yum07:10
jebbabut it makes no mention of doing a dpkg -i of them or such.07:10
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jebbawow. you're the first person i've ever heard to say they prefer yum over apt07:13
asidjazzits 100x easier07:15
asidjazzhow do you list available packages in apt?07:15
RST38hmoo.07:16
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derfMoo RST38h.07:17
ShadowJKapt-cache search .07:17
hardaker2yum and apt aren't really all that different07:17
hardaker2they suck in completely different ways07:18
hardaker2but they suck equally07:18
Arkenoiiirc zaurus had some direct qt implementation bypassing X07:18
Arkenoii doubt there is any use for such tricks today07:18
RST38hit is not a trick07:18
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Arkenoimy first x11-running pda was agenda vr3, it had 4 *MEGA*bytes of combined RAM+Storage07:19
Arkenoiand that was enough for it07:19
Arkenoinot to mention ridiculously slow cpu07:19
RST38hQT/Embedded normally runs on the framebuffer07:19
asidjazzhmm on vim-enhanced package07:19
RST38hThere is also MiniX library (or whatever it is called) that is a "client side" X1107:20
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RST38hOMG, Qt introduced yet another RPC framework07:28
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* RST38h queues up RPC framework creators right after audio framework creators in the line to the chopping block07:29
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johnxxWTH do laptops need like 10 indicator lights for? gah!07:37
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Venomrushi am considering getting rid of the N900 if there are no workarounds to install the apps elsewhere and stop it from constantly using up rootfs for each installations eventually leading to fail updates and limit the number of apps that you can have installed on the N90007:39
microlitherr07:40
microlitharen't the apps in the repos supposed to use /opt07:40
johnxxVenomrush, if you tell the authors of apps that aren't optified, they're likely to listen07:40
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Arkenoiindicator lights are cool, i like them07:40
johnxxVenomrush, ...and if you're in a hacking mood, you might want to look at a tool that lets you "auto-optify" some Nokia stuff to make room07:40
Venomrushjohnxx, i've contact them, they just sort of 'ignore' the suggestion07:41
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johnxxVenomrush, are these apps in extras or extras-testing/devel?07:41
Venomrushjohnxx, which tool are you takling about? is it that python script?07:41
johnxxit's a bash script07:42
johnxxfrom ccooke I believe07:42
zashwhy can't you do something like apt-get install --root=/opt somepackage07:42
Venomrushah yeh, bash script07:42
microlithzash: because apt packages don't work like that07:42
johnxxand because /opt is on vfat07:42
Venomrushi installed alot of apps from different repos07:42
Venomrushso i'm not exactly sure which apps are optified and what's not07:42
microlithVenomrush: all bets are off for non-maemo repos07:43
zashVenomrush: dpkg -L $package07:43
zashVenomrush: or possibly dpkg -S /opt07:43
jebbait's called maemo-optify   it's in python07:44
asidjazzman i cant get any of these example codes to compile07:44
johnxxwell yeah, not every app in extras-devel/testing is finished yet. it's called testing because you're expected to test, and give feedback, and devel is if you're a developer who wants to hack.07:44
johnxxasidjazz, all failing with missing headers?07:44
jebbaand it works easily.   You just run   maemo-optify-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc      to build.... SIMPLE07:44
Venomrushzash, what do those commands do?07:44
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johnxxjebba, there's also one from ccooke that optifies packages that are already installed07:45
jebbaah07:45
Venomrushideally, an easy GUI to find apps not optified, and optified them07:45
zashVenomrush: dpkg -L pkg lists all files belonging to a package, and -S seaches for packages that has that file07:45
jebbai'm out for the night. hasta maรฑana07:45
johnxxVenomrush, ccooke's is about as easy as it gets, but it's CLI.07:45
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johnxxof course, if you use it the wrong way, you'll need to reflash ;)07:45
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Venomrushthat's why i'm not too comfortable running them07:46
zashwhat about a proxy that transparently does optify07:46
johnxxVenomrush, then don't run testing software07:46
johnxxproblem solved07:46
Venomrushi ran dpkg -S /opt07:46
Venomrushoutputs a list of packages07:47
Venomrushare these optified or non-optified?07:47
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ersinhey everyone07:47
zashVenomrush: it lists packages that have something in /opt07:47
ersini was wondering if anyone has had any experience recompiling gtk for maemo07:47
johnxxzash, like an http proxy that sits between apt and the repository? that's pretty scary, but also neat07:47
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ersini did apt-get source libgtk2.0-0 and looked in the debian folder, but i noticed that there weren't any patches07:48
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ersinbut i can't imagine that nokia didn't patch their sources07:48
Venomrushjohnxx, do you mean non-testing software should be all optified?07:48
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johnxxVenomrush, exactly. Software in "Extras" should be optified.07:48
johnxxif it stores much of anything outside of /opt, that's a bug probably07:49
asidjazzheres my output http://pastie.org/73139907:49
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asidjazzwhere is hildon/hildon-program.h07:49
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johnxxasidjazz, dpkg -S hildon-program.h07:50
johnxxBTW, that's a neat pastebin07:50
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asidjazz/targets/FREMANTLE_X86/usr/include/hildon-1/hildon/hildon-program.h07:51
asidjazzyea pastie is sweet07:51
asidjazzwhy doesnt it see that include dir07:51
asidjazzhow do i see what my set include dirs are07:51
johnxxand you're compiling on the _X86 target?07:51
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johnxxasidjazz, did the instructions really say to type exactly that?07:53
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johnxxunless I'm quite confused, I think you need to say gcc -I/path/to/headers/07:53
ShadowJKSupposedly it's "ok" to store small files in /07:54
ShadowJKsince / is faster for small files07:54
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Venomrushthere should be a requirement that apps must be optified before promoting from devel -> extras-testing07:56
Venomrushcurrent promoting process to Extras takes too long IMO07:56
johnxxVenomrush, then test and vote07:57
Venomrushhow can we expect to test them if we can't even install them :\07:57
ManuelSEagree with venomrush07:57
ManuelSEvote down07:57
johnxxI propose starting a brainstorm07:57
Venomrushtesting app becomes limited cos u can't really test that many apps at the same time07:58
Venomrushthis is the bottleneck07:58
ManuelSEwhy do some gtk apps break my workflow into many windows07:58
ManuelSEthese must be reSTRUCTURED for maemo07:58
ManuelSEgpodder, mpd client07:58
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Venomrushmight as well spam with comments for apps in extras-testing => 'cant test you, my rootfs is full, optify!'08:08
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johnxxit only helps if you actually spam the right ones though08:11
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johnxxand I'm serious about starting a brainstorm. I think that's exactly the right way to see if a majority agree with you08:11
Venomrushi'm too lazy to write a brainstorm :\08:12
johnxxthen don't complain08:12
johnxxor at least put up a poll08:12
Venomrushhow long does a brianstorm take to get to implementation stage08:12
Venomrushmonths?08:13
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ManuelSEjoydev missing from -devel08:13
johnxxit depends on whether you're asking Nokia to do it or the community. Nokia won't act immediately, but if you're asking developers to optify before extras-testing (with the promise that you're more likely to test/vote on apps) it might go a lot faster08:14
johnxxIf nothing else, at least put up a yes/no poll and see if people agree with you. Just try to be diplomatic so you get devs on your side, not against you ;)08:14
johnxxand in the spirit of spamming the right people to optify their stuff, I think there's a script that lists how much space is taken up in what directories...08:15
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Venomrushjohnxx, would you be able to find this script that shows how much space is taken up?08:17
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johnxxif I can't find it I'll write it ... as long as you promise to use the heck out of it to bug people about optifying ;)08:17
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ersindu -h?08:18
johnxxersin, thinking specifically about how much space a given package uses in which partitions08:18
ersinah, sorry i jumped in without reading ;-)08:19
asidjazzlol 80% of my contacts disappeared08:19
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johnxxasidjazz, maemo knows who you really care about. it's a feature (tm)08:19
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wazdheya all08:22
simula_bug 9493: i don't really care about jennifer and maemo fails to delete her.08:22
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9493 was not found.08:22
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johnxxsimula, maemo knows best! :D08:22
simula_:)08:23
* johnxx admits to actually having clicked the link without reading first :)08:23
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imganquanHi. I'm new to maemo, now I have set a development environment on my debian lenny, but when I click the twitter in mameo ,nothing happened ,why?08:23
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johnxxthere's lots of ways things can go wrong when trying to use the SDK to emulate maemo08:24
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johnxxare you using the _X86 target or the _ARMEL target?08:24
imganquanX8608:25
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imganquanjohnxx: hi friend, Can you tell me how to install a new software in the emulator?08:28
johnxxuhm, not really. It's really made for being able to test software you're writing, not running any program you can download08:29
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imganquanoh..thank.08:30
cehtehwell application manager and dpkg/apt works for many things08:32
cehtehx86 .. the armel emulation lacks a lot hardware stuff08:32
Vrathaanyone else have an n900 on t-mobile USA and is having trouble getting a GPS signal?  it's kind of annoying08:33
imganquanOK, cehteh ,thank you. let me see...08:33
cehtehuhm gps looks more and more borked08:34
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Vrathai don't even know if t-mo usa offers a SUPL server08:36
ShadowJKit's a conspiracy to make N810 gps look good08:36
ShadowJKVratha, not needed. Nokia has one08:36
ShadowJKand the N900 uses nokia's server...08:36
Vrathayeah, nokia's doesn't seem to get me a reliable location08:37
ShadowJKas long as tmobile isn't blocking that08:37
luke-jrXD08:37
luke-jr\08:37
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johnxxworks just fine for me on t-mo here08:37
Vrathabut i guess other people in the states are having bad GPS lookups as well?08:38
Vrathajohnxx: where are you?  i'm in NY, about 30 mi. north of NYC08:38
johnxxthough indoors it will say it has a "fix" but it's really just doing cell-tower location08:38
johnxx10mi north of Seattle (more or less)08:38
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Vrathai can't tell if it's a bad GPS chip in my phone or not08:38
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johnxxheh. well everyone's N900 has the same bad GPS chip :)08:39
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LinuxCode+n81008:39
microlithisn't there a known issue where if the N900 can't get data service the GPS doesn't work at all?08:39
johnxxyes08:40
LinuxCodetakes 40 years for me to get a lock08:40
johnxxin that case it might be stuck using cell tower location08:40
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johnxxVratha, do you have a data plan with t-mo?08:40
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Vrathayeah, i got their Even More Plus plan08:41
Vrathabut i don't think they set it up right08:41
Vrathai have something called "Web First Data" as my data package08:41
Vrathadon't know if that's the right thing08:41
johnxxcan you use the web browser?08:42
Vrathayes08:42
Vrathai get about 1Mbps, which they said was pretty typical08:42
johnxxcan you use IM?08:42
VrathaAT&T on my iphone (with a tethered jailbreak) got 3 Mbps08:42
Vrathai don't know... would i test that with skype?08:43
johnxxskype or AIM or MSN or whatever08:43
Vrathahmm, i don't have an AIM client on it (would like one though)08:43
johnxxjust trying to think of things that aren't using port 80 (or the standard email ports)08:43
Vrathai can try with skype (i've made skype calls over the 3G network)08:43
johnxxah, well then they're not blocking you for sure :)08:43
Vrathahehe08:44
Vrathamy plan doesn't say anything about having texting on it, and i'm supposed to get unlimited texts08:44
Vrathawas planning to call them tomorrow to get it all straightened out08:44
johnxxso where have you tested the GPS?08:44
Vrathajust at my place08:44
Vrathai only got this phone yesterday and haven't been out of the house (just got back from AZ)08:44
johnxxmight be worth trying it by a window (not gonna suggest you go outside and hold it up to the sky in the middle of the night ;) )08:45
johnxxhow far off did it have your location?08:45
ShadowJKeven by the window, GPS is a bit difficult in my house, even with "Known good" receivers08:45
ManuelSEi am beginning to ctrl-i on pc now ...hihi08:46
ManuelSEdo you all know ctrl-i to tab?08:46
johnxxat some point I had mangled a keymap so bad that all I had was letters and ctrl. I know a good number of the ctrl-<letter> combinations now08:47
Vrathajohnxx: valencia, spain08:47
Vrathahahaha08:47
ManuelSEwho know how to make the | on keyboard?????08:47
johnxxsooo, not just getting your location from the cell tower then :P08:47
johnxxManuelSE, use the symbols pop-up window08:48
Vrathamy iphone always got it, which is why i'm wondering if it's the AGPS that isn't working right or the GPS chip itself08:48
ManuelSEno08:48
Vrathajohnxx: yeah, that's my guess08:48
ManuelSEis too slow and does not always work08:48
VrathaManuelSE: press the "blue arrow" and then "Sym"08:48
Vrathatop left two keys on the keyboard08:48
ManuelSEah08:48
ShadowJKVratha, iphone has skyhook too though08:48
ManuelSEi thought simultaneous press hahahaha08:48
VrathaShadowJK: oh, what is that?08:48
johnxxManuelSE, there's a way to add it to the xterm bar, or you can rebind keys if you can figure out how08:49
ManuelSEmanuel is a fooool08:49
ShadowJKVratha, it scans for wlans and such and queries a database that knows where each wlan network is located08:49
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ManuelSEthank you!08:49
Vrathaoh08:49
VrathaManuelSE: np08:49
Vrathaanyone know how to get video calls working on skype?  i know this thing has a front-facing camera08:49
Vrathajohnxx: i'll just have to try GPS on my way to work tomorrow to see if it fairs better08:50
ManuelSEskype say hno support for video08:50
ShadowJKSkype doesn't support video calls on n90008:50
Vrathadang it08:50
ShadowJKand the front camera is nearly useless atm :)08:50
johnxxVratha, it should behave better after it gets a fix in your area08:50
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ManuelSEvery noisy cam- needs some dsp loving08:50
ManuelSEdenoise3d from mplayer08:50
Vrathajohnxx: yeah, but it refuses to do that :-/08:51
ShadowJKPersonally I dislike denoisers..08:51
ManuelSEor smth more specific to hardware08:51
ManuelSEok08:51
VrathaShadowJK: dang; i hope they fix it up08:51
Vrathaalso, i'd like a search ability in my inbox :)08:51
ManuelSEshadowjk they are needed for quality vs bandwidth08:51
ShadowJKsure08:51
johnxxVratha, letting it get a fix outside the first time should help I think08:51
ShadowJKlet's make it "denoisers behind my back"08:51
ManuelSEmhm08:52
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Vrathajohnxx: ah, maybe.  i'll give it a try08:52
ManuelSEin consumer cameras i hate them sometimes08:52
ShadowJKLike someone else said, at some point the denoising artefacts get uglier than the noise itself08:52
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Vrathatomorrwo at least08:52
ShadowJKyes08:52
ManuelSEzoom in and picture looks like a Monet painting08:52
ManuelSEgive me choice to denoise later!08:53
ShadowJKyes :-)08:53
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Vrathahaha08:54
asidjazzis there another maemo channel?08:55
asidjazzfor like developers..08:55
Vrathahmm, that would be nice.  i'm personally curious if there is a build of python available in a repo08:56
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johnxxVratha, yes. should be in Extras08:56
johnxxasidjazz, actually...this *is* the maemo develoeprs channel :)08:56
johnxxstill not getting it to include the headers?08:57
Vrathajohnxx: didn't see it.   maybe it's in Extra-testing or something08:57
johnxxah, python itself won't be in the GUI application manager08:57
johnxxyou can grab it with apt-get08:57
Vrathaso, how do i change the root password (that i setup when installing openssh-server) if i accidentally entered it incorrectly (twice)08:57
Vrathajohnxx: aaaah, ok08:58
johnxxinstall rootsh08:58
Vrathathat would do dandy08:58
Vrathai have rootsh on... maybe that's an app on the GUI08:58
* Vratha checks08:58
johnxxwell, if you have the rootsh app installed, just type 'root' in the xterm08:58
Vrathasweet!  got it via xterm08:58
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johnxxgah. Just downloaded 1.7GB and the md5sum doesn't match :|09:02
ruskieyouch09:02
asidjazzjohnxx: nope09:02
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johnxxasidjazz, ok, so point me at the docs for the example thing you're trying to install09:03
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Vrathaso, out of curiosity, why did nokia setup the n900 so it only has 2 GB of space for apps?09:04
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Vrathawhy not just share the whole drive for both data and apps?09:04
slonopotamusVratha, to prevent users losing their data upon reflash.09:05
johnxxfor somewhat annoying reasons involving compatibility with people using Windows and different speeds of flash09:05
Vrathajohnxx: i see09:05
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johnxxand also what slonopotamus said09:06
Vrathahmm09:06
asidjazzsec johnxx  trying to -I09:06
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johnxxasidjazz, ok. what example are you trying to compile? are you following a guide from somewhere?09:07
asidjazzyea09:08
asidjazzthe sdk docs09:08
asidjazzi made a script from readin them09:09
Vrathaman, is there any maemo package that has "less"?09:09
asidjazzhttp://pastie.org/73144609:09
asidjazzhaha you dont like more09:09
asidjazzless is more09:09
slonopotamusthey're not interchangeable.09:10
Vrathano, i hate more :)09:10
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slonopotamusthat's like 'i hate forks, gimme a spoon'09:11
asidjazz/usr/include/hildon-1/hildon09:11
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Khertan_n900Hi !09:11
slonopotamusKhertan_n900, morning09:11
Khertan_n900Someone know what is the widget use in the email application, the one in the pannablearea listing all mail ?09:12
Khertan_n900hi slonopotamus09:12
asidjazzso its looking for hildon09:12
asidjazznot hildon-109:12
asidjazzdo i modify the code to go after hildon-1 or softlink hildon to hildon-109:13
johnxxyou include one level higher09:13
Khertan_n900does the calendar applications's source is available somewhere ?09:13
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Khertan_n900i didn t found it on gitorious or with mxr09:13
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johnxxKhertan, I think it's closed09:14
johnxxasidjazz, you might want to jump back to here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Legacy_Maemo_5_Documentation/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Getting_started09:14
Khertan_n900hum ... ok09:14
Khertan_n900i m trying to do a similar ui like in the task list of ther calendar09:15
asidjazzaha!09:15
asidjazzpkg-config hildon-1 --cflags --libs`09:15
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Khertan_n900when you double click it s open details09:15
Khertan_n900it s look like a treeview in a pannablearea09:15
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simula_aha! /etc/event.d/rcS-late09:16
Khertan_n900but i cannot got selection of a treeview in a pannable area .. so i suspect an other widget09:16
Khertan_n900any idea ?09:16
asidjazzWORKED09:17
johnxxasidjazz, you can use pkg-config with a lot of other things too, such as gtk, glib, dbus09:17
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asidjazzcan i do pkg-config hildon-1 gtk09:17
asidjazzcan i do pkg-config hildon-1 gtk+-2009:17
asidjazzcan i do pkg-config hildon-1 gtk+-2.009:17
StargazersHi! How long your battery life is in Nokia N900? And is lshal | grep battery realistic values?09:17
StargazersI mean, there is Battery percentages.09:17
asidjazzlshal ?09:17
johnxxasidjazz, the pkg-config files are in /usr/lib/pkg-config (IIRC)09:17
Stargazersasidjazz: Start xterm and type lshal | grep battery09:17
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johnxxso just look at the names there and put in the right thing09:17
Stargazersasidjazz: So you can see lots of information about battery09:18
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ManuelSE_are maemo.org password databases inconsistent?09:18
PaulFertserBTW, does anyone know any decent non-maemo-specific battery gadget that can monitor battery over HAL?09:18
asidjazzthats cool09:18
Khertan_n900does the fremantle email application source is available ? mxr give me only mlodest source of diablo09:18
johnxxManuelSE, between talk and maemo.org? yes09:18
Vrathaso any package in maemo that offers "less"?09:18
Vrathai can't find one so far09:18
ManuelSE_ty johnxx09:18
johnxxPaulFertser, the gnome one comes to mind09:19
StargazersAnyone?09:19
StargazersThat battery.09:19
johnxxKhertan, I think it is09:19
johnxxStargazers, it seems at least roughly accurage. My device is showing charged and the batt percentage from lshal is 9509:19
PaulFertserStargazers: they mostly use old /proc/apm or modern standard /sys/class/power_supply interfaces.09:19
ashenburgeri got 33 from mine, seems to be close at least09:19
StargazersPaulFertser: Thanks, have to look09:19
Khertan_n900johnx thx i ll try to look deeper09:20
PaulFertserStargazers: but nokia decided to avoid standard interfaces and rely on deprecated hal i guess.09:20
StargazersWell, yeah.09:20
johnxxI think it was more a case of starting development when HAL was still the "right way to go"09:20
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PaulFertserjohnxx: (gnome gadget) have you tried it on nit? Are you in fact using non-maemo WM?09:21
johnxxPaulFertser, none of the above09:21
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PaulFertserjohnxx: are you sure it's a good idea to not use power_supply interface?09:21
johnxxbut it should be able to pull from HAL and lshal on Maemo 5 seems to be sane sooo...09:21
johnxxPaulFertser, no. of course I'm not sure. You asked so I just pointed out a tool. /me shrugs09:22
StargazersBut strange stuff is that battery "bar" is over 50%, amost 80% or something but when I look at CLI with lshal | grep battery I can see that battery percentage is 60%09:22
PaulFertserjohnxx: ok, thanks.09:22
StargazersBBut that bar shows much higher09:22
StargazersIn which one I should believe mroe?09:22
StargazersThat CLI way?09:22
PaulFertserStargazers: lshal09:22
Vrathathings the n900 still needs: working GPS, skype with front-facing web cam, "less" :), and android in a JVM09:23
PaulFertserStill no "less" in standard maemo? lol09:23
StargazersAll right.09:23
StargazersPaulFertser: Yep. Noticed that too.09:23
asidjazzis there any eclipse support for maemo?09:23
Khertan_n900asidjazz:pluthon :)09:23
StargazersI took my N900 out of charger at 06:00 at in this morning. I have used about an hour network and now there is no connection at all (disabled it) and battery is 60%. Well, not very much.09:24
asidjazzwhats pluthon09:24
StargazersJust quickly tested videos, about 3min.09:24
StargazersAnd couple of images.09:24
VrathaPaulFertser: well, if there is, i don't know how to get it09:24
PaulFertserStargazers: i think lshal is more accurate since it seems to be the only interface the gadget can use. Nokia decided to avoid proper in-kernel battery monitoring support, instead they still rely on their proprietary user-space daemon and they provide a hal plugin to get data from it.09:24
asidjazzugh i dont wanna write python09:24
* Sargun needs to get a t-mobile plan09:24
Vrathai love python09:25
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StargazersPaulFertser: All right then. Well I must confess that I like that CLI way to look battery, it really rocks.09:25
Vrathabetter than writing C or C++09:25
PaulFertserVratha: i mean the first thing a reasonable hacker would do is "dmesg | less" and it's like nokia decided that's not a reasonable usecase :)09:25
asidjazzyou can harness the hardware as well Vratha and the apps you write will require pythong09:25
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VrathaPaulFertser: haha, yes09:25
StargazersPaulFertser: Especially if I can make battery will stay long enough so I can keep SSH-pipe open.09:25
Stargazers:)09:25
simula_\simula prefers c++09:25
StargazersAnd SQLite3 for conversations log, it really, mreally ROCKS :)09:25
StargazersI love it.09:25
StargazersIt is fantastic that I can ssh to my phone, open sqlite3 and check what has happened and I do not need to check my phone :D09:26
StargazersIf that is on charger, lol.09:26
StargazersIt makes me feel little nerdy.09:26
asidjazzhow do you open sqlite3 on it09:26
Vrathaugh, i write enough C++ at work to know it's not optimal09:26
Stargazersasidjazz: xterm -> sqlite309:26
Vrathatakes too long to code it09:26
StargazersVratha: That is why there is always C \o/09:26
Stargazers;)09:26
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ruskiehmm the first thing I did was learn how to use sfdisk and started repratitioning the mmc09:27
asidjazzhow do you list tables in sqlite309:27
asidjazzshow tables; dont do it09:27
Stargazersasidjazz: .tables09:27
Stargazersdot and tables09:27
Stargazersasidjazz: And put ".headers on"09:27
simula_what gui framework do you use with c++ at work vratha?09:27
jyskyhow shitty is the mediaplayer's "suffle". i listened music yesterday, now it suffles same songs in same order09:27
StargazersSo you can see table fields too.09:27
asidjazznothing Stargazers09:27
Stargazersasidjazz: Well... did you opened any DB?09:27
Stargazersasidjazz: If not then open some.09:28
asidjazzoh no09:28
StargazersHeh.09:28
asidjazzi see main and temp09:28
Stargazersasidjazz: Well, start it with "sqlite3 somedatabase.db"09:28
asidjazzoh you hvae to give it .db files09:28
asidjazzwhere are those on the phone?09:28
Stargazersasidjazz: But conversations log is in /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db09:28
Stargazersasidjazz: But be warned!09:28
StargazersDO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING :)09:28
StargazersI have no idea what would happen.09:29
StargazersSo I made a copy of it.09:29
StargazersAnd the sqlited it.09:29
Stargazers"Just in case"09:29
asidjazzthis is awesome09:29
Stargazersasidjazz: It really is.09:29
Stargazersasidjazz: in Events table is calls etc.09:29
StargazersSo you can see last messages.09:29
asidjazzwhat table logs converstaions09:29
asidjazzok09:30
Stargazersasidjazz: dates are in timestamp09:30
Vrathasimula_: i don't.  i only do backend development in c++09:30
StargazersBut in SQLite you can convert it with SELECT DATE( start_time, 'unixepoch', 'localtime' ) FROM Events;09:30
StargazersIf I remember correctly.09:30
asidjazzhow sweet09:30
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Stargazersasidjazz: That is :) So you can make easily apps what will show many kind of information.09:31
StargazersI haven't found a way to see contacts numbers etc with any SQL, because adddressbook seems to be Berkeley DB09:31
StargazersDunno how I can convert it to SQLite or similar.09:32
StargazersOr if I can do it anyway.09:32
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asidjazzso whats the best ide for coding maemo cpp/gtk/hildon09:32
simula_vratha, what do you write in python?09:32
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Stargazersasidjazz: Well my opinion is just pure VIM. No guis needed.09:33
asidjazzi love vim09:33
StargazersWhere do you need GUI?09:33
asidjazzbut i need like on the fly api help09:33
Vrathasimula_: usually STP tools09:33
asidjazzsince i dont really know gtk09:33
StargazersAll right then.09:33
Stargazersasidjazz: I see.09:33
Stargazersasidjazz: Well, I just use GTK Api in web browser...09:33
Vrathasimula_: but for personal projects i'll sometimes use python to try out an algo or do some pretty basic AI search09:34
Stargazersasidjazz: IMHO best way to create apps is just to learn it without any helps, because then you really _learn_ it.09:35
Stargazersasidjazz: So you can use it in whatever editor you just want.09:35
Stargazersasidjazz: But surely if some other works better for you, just use it :)09:36
StargazersBecause most important is still to just do the apps if you want to.09:36
asidjazzdoes sqlite have a command like mysql's \G09:37
asidjazzto show the data easier09:37
StargazersWell, I don't know if there is any.09:37
StargazersBut if you find, tell me too.09:38
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Stargazersasidjazz: Maybe .ode09:39
Stargazers*.mode09:39
Stargazershttp://www.sqlite.org/sqlite.html09:39
StargazersHave to test09:39
asidjazzsweet09:39
StargazersIt is.09:39
Stargazers.mode line09:39
StargazersNice.09:39
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asidjazzcheck this Stargazers09:40
Stargazersasidjazz: What?09:40
asidjazzsqlite3 -html el.db "select * from Events limit 10"09:40
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Stargazersasidjazz: Nice! <309:41
StargazersDammit that stuff rocks!09:42
StargazersIf I can just find a way to create "server" on my N900 so I can just show that output in browser :)09:42
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Stargazersnetcat would be nice.09:42
simula_lighttpd is in one of the repos09:42
StargazersOh? Dammit, have to test it on home!09:43
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StargazersIt would be super duper.09:43
asidjazzhttp://www.notchill.com/conv.html09:43
StargazersIt would be sexy stuff to run on N900 :D09:43
Stargazersasidjazz: Hehe, cool.09:43
asidjazzi wouldnt run any daemons on the device Stargazers09:43
Stargazersasidjazz: Why so.09:43
asidjazzi would have the device periodically report this stuff to somewhere else09:43
asidjazzcuz its inefficient09:43
StargazersWell that is true.09:43
Stargazersasidjazz: But how you do that reporting periodically without cron? Just bash script with sleeps on it?09:44
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johnxxalarmd I think? (or are they on to something new?)09:44
StargazersHmm, alarmd... can it be run from cli directly somehow?09:44
Vrathahmm09:46
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Vrathaso when is nokia thinking about opening that Ovi Store for the n900?09:46
asidjazzStargazers: cron might be ok09:46
Stargazersasidjazz: Well there is no cron.09:46
asidjazzStargazers: youd have to test load diff09:46
sejogood morning!09:46
ruskiea sleeping cron like fcron/hc-cran would to great09:46
asidjazzthen you while (true) sleep(1)09:46
asidjazztheres gotta be some kinda cron functionality in maemo09:46
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asidjazzfor events like getting mail09:46
Stargazersasidjazz: Well maybe it just uses that alarmd09:47
ruskieasidjazz, modest -t 3009:47
ruskiethat's what I've seen in the ps ax list09:47
sejomorning09:47
StargazersWhat is modest?09:47
StargazersSounds familiar.09:47
ruskiewith modest set to check mail every 30 minutes09:47
ruskiethe mail client09:47
StargazersOh.09:47
StargazersThanks.09:47
asidjazzso it runs constantly09:47
asidjazzis the src availalbe of that i doubt it09:47
sejosomeone knows if there is a solitaire for the maemo?getting iPhone withdrawals *grin*09:47
ruskiemodest src is available09:47
pekujasejo: Klondike, or any solitaire?09:48
LinuxCodesejo, I can help you with that dilemma09:48
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* LinuxCode takes sejo's n900 and hands sejo his own iphone09:49
LinuxCode;-p09:49
LinuxCodeprobably be a while before I get a N90009:49
LinuxCode;-|09:49
StargazersBtw I really, really love FM transimtter in N900.09:50
ruskie:)09:50
* ruskie really really loves he can do sfdisk and repartition things09:50
pekuja...09:50
ersini wish the n900 stuck with the 4.1" screen like the n8x0's09:50
pekujayeah, that's what I want in a phone too09:50
ersinand i bet i'm probably the only one who wants that lol09:50
pekujarepartitioning09:50
StargazersWhen I came to work this morning it was soooo sweet to put Nightwish's Angels Fall First -album to radio \o09:50
LinuxCodeersin, ?09:50
ruskiepekuja, to be precise a device I can do more or less anything to ;)09:50
pekujasure :-)09:50
ruskieto bad it seems to be rather annoyed at times with the repartitioning09:51
Stargazersersin: No you are not if you mean that you wish that screen size would be same than in n800.09:51
pekujaI do like that too.09:51
ersinthe n900 is very far from nokia's original vision09:51
ruskiesometimes simply stops booting properly09:51
StargazersBut well, I love n900 still.09:51
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ruskiejust black screen09:51
ersinit's not really an internet tablet...i mean, it is fully a phone09:51
ruskielol09:51
ersini use my n800 to do desktop tasks believe it or not09:51
ManuelSE_has anyone biuld zeemoted for fremantle?09:51
ruskiea phone is one app on it ;)09:51
ersinbut it's impossible with n90009:51
LinuxCodeersin, why ?09:51
simula_what can an internet tablet do that an n900 can't?09:52
ManuelSE_10 percent smaller09:52
ersinmanuelse_: exactly09:52
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LinuxCodedont grow so chubby ahnds then09:52
LinuxCodehehe09:52
LinuxCode;-p09:52
ersin4" is the bare minimum to get stuff done, imo09:52
pekuja:-)09:52
ersinand i like the bare minimum09:52
ManuelSE_many eyes are too old for n09:52
Stskeepsthen use a n8x0 tethered to a n900 ;p09:52
ManuelSE_n90009:52
ersinhave you ever written a term paper on a n800?  because i have done that many a time ;-)09:53
LinuxCodeStskeeps, haha09:53
ersinbah lol09:53
LinuxCodejust get a small portable bt keybaord09:53
ManuelSE_ersin has a point09:53
ersini do have a keyboard, ofc09:53
pekujaI think maybe in an optimal world I would have an n800 tethered to a phone, but then I'd have to carry two devices around09:53
simula_i would rather have a 3" screen i'll actually carry around with me than a 4" screen that stays at home :)09:53
ManuelSE_some of us like bigger screens09:53
asidjazzso what apps that are in the repository are written in python?09:53
pekujan900 is a better compromise I think09:53
LinuxCodepekuja, exactly09:53
pekujawell, currently I am carrying around a phone and an iPod09:53
LinuxCodeif you want to do more, get a cheap netbook09:53
ManuelSE_ersin, help make n900 awesome, and maemo popular09:54
Xisdibik<ersin> 4" is the bare minimum to get stuff done, imo  <<< isnt that also what she said? :P09:54
pekujabut I only really have the iPod for the App Store09:54
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ersinpekuja, i don't see what it's a compromise between09:54
pekujagot it for pretty cheap too09:54
StargazersBtw is there any way how I can make my N900 to work as wlan hotspot, like in JoikuSpot but without it?09:54
pekujaersin: an internet tablet and a phone09:54
pekujaersin: smaller than a tablet, more feature rich than a phone09:54
ManuelSE_then the market will vbe big enough to allow ppl to biold more device variety09:54
ersinpekuja: i think it's pretty much 100% phone, and what n900 does is going to be standard real soon on phones09:54
simula_then n900 is a little computer that happens to have a phone in it :)09:54
ersinmanuelse_: i do plenty of work for the n800 as it is...as we speak i'm trying to recompile a new version of gtk+ ;-)09:55
StargazersBtw do any of you have made sync work with google calendar and n900 calendar, or is it possible at all?09:55
StargazersJust calendar stuff.09:55
ManuelSE_great thank you09:55
ManuelSE_:)09:55
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ersinmanuelse_: i'm the de facto abiword maintainer for maemo, and i'm trying to get the svn trunk branch to work...the compile stopped working because abiword 2.9 is using new versions of gtk09:56
ersini have no idea if this is going to work09:56
ersinlol09:56
simula_good luck ersin09:56
ersin*sigh* i wish mer were...*fill in blank*09:56
johnxxwhoa. you're going to try and bring a newer gtk into maemo?09:56
ersinsimula_: thanks09:56
ersinjohnxx: yep09:57
johnxxand like install it in /opt or something?09:57
ersinnah09:57
ersinjust gonna install it roughshod, let's see what happens ;-)09:57
johnxxno one will be able to install the application ...09:57
johnxxapp manager wouldn't let them ;)09:57
ersinhmm, really?09:57
cehtehersin: does it really depend on newer gtk or is that just a bogus dependency .. if it really depends, why, can some thing be ported back?09:57
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johnxxalso. it'd break the whole system if your forced it09:57
ManuelSE_ersin abiword?   that sounds like a challenge09:58
ManuelSE_big one09:58
StargazersBtw can I send SMSes from command line somehow?09:58
* cehteh likes that emacs works :P09:58
StargazersVIM ftw \,,/09:58
Vrathado you guys know where the pre-installed demo songs are located on the file system?  i'm trying to remove them from the ssh session i have going on the phone09:58
StargazersHave to install that some day.09:58
johnxxthere was someone working on hildonizing abiword at some point ...09:58
StargazersVratha: /home/user/.sounds?09:58
Vrathaoops... i should clarify.  that's on the n90009:58
johnxxVratha, ~/MyDocs/.sounds09:58
Vrathaah sweet.  thanks09:58
StargazersVratha: Meant /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds09:58
ersincehteh: well it's not a real dependency *yet*, but it is real...basically new code was added to a header file that uses types that were introduced in gtk 2.18, whereas maemo uses gtk 2.10...so far not used yet, but prolly will be soon09:58
sejoLinuxCode: hahaah09:59
ersinmanuelse_: it's already been done ;) add extras-devel to your list09:59
sejoLinuxCode: over my dead body *grin*09:59
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* LinuxCode gets a knife09:59
LinuxCodeok!09:59
sejoLinuxCode: even without solitaire it's far out the best phone I ever had09:59
ersinjohnxx: abiword has been hildonized for a while09:59
cehtehersin: so maybe you can maintain a conditional build backport without the new gtk features?09:59
LinuxCodesejo, glad you say that ;-D09:59
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sejopekuja: any form is good, klondike would be cool though10:00
LinuxCodejust need more devs to package stuff10:00
ersincehteh: yeah, i mean probably that won't even be necessary yet, we're just talking about one header file...but it would be nice to have updated libs10:00
Vrathajohnxx, Stargazers : have either of you ever tried to sync your contacts from your iphone to the n900 using a mac?  hoping i don't have to manually transcribe all that data10:00
Vrathai can only assume iTunes doesn't play nice with it10:00
sejoLinuxCode: having a 64bit sdk would help10:00
StargazersVratha: I have no mac nor iTunes.10:01
ersincehteh: some would say that i should just give up and work on mer, but i actually really enjoy diablo, i think it's a very well thought out system, and the hw integration is crucial for me10:01
johnxxVratha, can you have the iphone write them out to the SIM?10:01
StargazersI use Linux and synced my contacts from my N82.10:01
Vrathaah, a quick google search revealed something10:01
Vrathajohnxx: no, but i found an article saying that OS X's address book can export the vcards to the n900 if it's setup as a mass storage device10:01
ruskiehmm what is better to use? app manager or apt-get ?10:01
Sargunapp manager10:02
johnxxVratha, that might do it.10:02
ruskieeven if using some of the more dangerous repos?10:02
johnxxYou might even be able to blast the vcards at it en masse with bluetooth10:02
johnxxruskie, even then. though you should use apt-get instead of red pill10:02
ruskieso far I had bad experience with the app manager... I'm thinking something from some repo maybe crashed something else10:03
ruskiebecause it seems taht I had a boot failure 2/3 after installing something using the app manager10:03
cehtehapp manager is just a frontend10:03
ruskieone time it was caused by maemo mapper freezing and doing a force shutdown10:03
ruskieyeah but it doesn't list what is installing - if there are any dependencies10:04
asidjazzhow does concatenation work in cpp?10:04
cehtehif some package is serious broken it doesnt matter which pill or if you used apt-get or dpkg10:04
johnxxthey're under details-> dependencies I think (or similar)10:04
cehtehasidjazz: #define cat(a,b) a##b10:04
asidjazzwtf10:05
ruskiecehteh, well other than seeing what is being pulled in10:05
Vrathajohnxx: well, actually, turns out that won't be how i want to do it, since i won't be able to go from the n900 to the mac.  hopefully nokia will release an iSync plugin for the n900 before long10:05
Stargazershttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3614810:05
asidjazzcehteh: lets say i have something liek tihs10:05
asidjazzlike this*10:05
asidjazz        banner = hildon_banner_show_information(GTK_WIDGET(window), NULL, "Hi there! ");10:05
StargazersIf someone knows the answer it would be nice :)10:05
asidjazzi wanna concatenate a variable to "Hi there! " so i can see its contents10:05
VrathaStargazers: haha, that would be pretty sweet, especially for scripts/apps that you setup10:06
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StargazersVratha: That would be.10:06
cehtehthe preprocessor cant evaluate variables10:06
StargazersVratha: I feel a little bit a geeky nerd :D10:06
StargazersWhen I am asking stuff like that.10:06
cehtehyou have to contruct the string you want sprintf or whatever10:06
johnxxVratha, I'm not the best person to ask about syncing. My N900 has quickly become the definitive source of info on contacts in the brief time I've had it. I am looking at how to sync it back to linux, but only half-heartedly10:06
StargazersAnd when I am sshing in my phone via SSH-pipe (can't connet directly if on 3G because operator blocks ssh ports)...10:06
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asidjazzok so10:07
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johnxxStargazers, dbus maybe? I'd look at the SDK documentation10:07
Stargazersjohnxx: If you find it, it would be nice if you could post it on that forum (so I can check it easier later because in IRC there is sooo much talking).10:07
asidjazzbanner = hildon_banner_show_information(GTK_WIDGET(window), NULL, sprintf("Hi there! (%d)", banner_type));10:08
StargazersHave to do some work now o/ See ya, keep the maemo rocking \o10:08
Vrathajohnxx: ah, okay.  that was a nice thing about my iphone.  i could pretty seamlessly keep everything integrated/synced easily10:08
johnxxStargazers, sorry. I meant "if I were you, I would look at the documentation"10:08
cehtehasidjazz: i suggest you to get a C book :)10:08
johnxxI'm not going to look for you :)10:08
Stargazersjohnxx: Oh, surely I will look it :)10:08
asidjazzwarning: passing argument 2 of 'sprintf' makes pointer from integer without a cast10:08
StargazersBut now gotta go.10:08
Stargazers->10:08
asidjazzcehteh: lol10:09
cehtehyeah thats wrong :P10:09
johnxxVratha, like I said: maybe this stuff actually works and I just don't know because I'm on linux here10:09
Vrathamaybe; i'll be looking into it10:09
Vrathanah, looks like nokia hasn't released an updated iSync for the n90010:10
Vrathathey sure seem to be taking their time on making this device feature complete10:11
* ruskie tries the approach of reboot after every apt-get just to see if there's some app that shouldn't get installed10:12
asidjazzcehteh: do u know the right way?10:12
johnxxI get the feeling they're busting @$$ as fast as possible, but their Maemo team is smaller than their Symbian10:12
cehtehyes10:12
* Stskeeps is looking forward to seeing what pr1.1 updates10:12
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Vrathajohnxx: yeah, well, they gotta hurry up and catch up to Android and iPhone :)10:12
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* ruskie disables extras-devel now that he got the one app he wanted from there10:13
cehtehasidjazz: char buffer[32]; snprintf(buffer, 32, "Hi there! (%d)", banner_type); ...10:14
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Venomrushim trying to edit a file with vi10:15
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Venomrushcan't find the 'Delete' key10:15
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ruskieVenomrush, insert mode use backspace10:15
cehteh%d is never more than 20 character, be careful about the buffer size that you dont overflow it, if in doubt handle the return for snprintf!10:15
cehteherr 10 chars .. n900 is 32 bit :)10:15
Venomrushruskie, erh how to get to insert mode?10:16
ruskiei10:16
Venomrushah10:16
Venomrushcool10:16
ruskieesc to get out of it10:16
johnxxwhere is esc?10:16
ruskieon the terminal10:16
johnxxright, right10:16
johnxxthat's what I get for asking without my N900 in front of me10:17
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Venomrushto save10:17
Venomrushi tried ctrl+c10:17
Venomrushwont come out10:17
Venomrushor asked me anything10:17
ruskie:x10:17
ruskieafter you hit esc10:17
johnxx<esc>:wq10:17
Vrathaif in doubt, use std::string :)10:17
Venomrushyeh hit esc10:17
Venomrushdoesnt seem to save?10:17
Venomrushor pop up with any confirm text10:18
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ruskieit won't10:18
ruskieit'll just save it10:18
asidjazzerror: expected expression before 'char'10:18
asidjazzhmm10:18
Venomrushthats bad :\10:18
ruskie:wq10:18
ruskiewill write and quit10:18
ruskiedon't forget to hit enter after it10:18
johnxxVenomrush, then vi is probably not for you :)10:18
ruskieit'll tell you ti saved10:18
Venomrushi use nano on ubuntu10:19
Venomrushnot too keen with vi10:19
Venomrushpressed enter10:19
Venomrushnothing10:19
Venomrush:\10:19
Sargunnano or bust10:20
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asidjazzi tried banner = hildon_banner_show_information(GTK_WIDGET(window), NULL, snprintf(buffer, 32, "Hi there! (%d) ", banner_type));10:20
cehtehthats not what i showed :P10:20
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cehtehasidjazz: char buffer[32]; snprintf(buffer, 32, "Hi there! (%d)", banner_type); banner = hildon_banner_show_information(GTK_WIDGET(window), NULL, buffer);10:21
ruskiehmm there any simple command to clean out /var/cache/apt/archives ?10:21
Venomrushhow do i exit vi mode :\10:21
asidjazzoh10:21
ruskiehit: esc10:21
Venomrushi did10:21
johnxxruskie, apt-get clean10:21
ruskietype :q10:21
Venomrushit didnt go back :\10:21
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ruskieand hit enter after :q10:21
Venomrush''No write since last change'10:22
Venomrushdidnt save it :\10:22
ruskieso do: :wq10:22
ruskieand again enter10:22
cehtehor apt-get install emacs :P10:22
asidjazzcehteh: that really sucks to have to do that10:22
asidjazz<- spoiled by languages like php10:23
StskeepsVenomrush: your post mentions you have maemo devel enabled, and hence any illusions about rootfs not filling up is gone :P10:23
Venomrushi didnt install anything from devel10:23
Venomrushbeside haze10:23
Venomrushor have any of the other apps with devel versions10:23
StskeepsVenomrush: no, but you might have gotten updates from there or not realizing it's in devel :P10:24
ruskieStskeeps, depends if one does some extra tricks ;)10:24
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asidjazzwhere can i find example apps in python10:24
cehtehasidjazz: well, i dont know gtk well, for my other stuff i have somethng like tmpbuf_snprintf("foo %d",1234) which returns a temporary buffer and you can use it like you tried to do10:24
cehtehbut there is no such thing in the C stdlib10:24
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StskeepsVenomrush: btw, crash reporter is bound to cause you full rootfs. it means it stores core files10:24
Stskeeps(i think)10:25
* ruskie disables maemo-testing now as well10:25
Stskeepsbut yeah, midori and python are the culprits10:25
Stskeeps(probably)10:26
Venomrushhavent got pymaemo installed :\10:26
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Venomrushmidori so ja10:26
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StskeepsVenomrush: sure? dpkg -l | grep python10:26
Venomrush1 sec just rebooting10:26
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asidjazzcehteh: hm10:28
StskeepsVenomrush: also i'm not sure openttd optifies it's data files10:30
Venomrushis there anyway to check?10:30
dolfundu10:31
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ruskieI wish there was better partitioning out of the box10:31
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dolfundpkg -X package.deb .10:31
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dolfunmove files to opt10:31
dolfunthen use ar to recreate the deb10:31
dolfun4 minutes10:31
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johnxxVenomrush: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33429&page=1 and http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Extras-testing/QA_Checklist#Checking_root_filesystem_usage10:32
StskeepsVenomrush: i guess checking if the files you manually installed from the original TTD are on internal flash or not10:32
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X-FadeMorning10:32
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Stskeepsmorning X-Fade and welcome back at work :P10:32
dolfunif you don't want to patch against upstream directories, add symlinking to postinst10:32
X-FadeStskeeps: Thanks ;)10:33
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asidjazz/usr/include/libosso.h:38:23: error: dbus/dbus.h: No such file or directory10:33
asidjazzgrrr10:33
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Stskeepsruskie: not so much to do about internal flash really10:33
dolfundoes Till Harbaum have a nick on IRC?10:33
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Stskeepsdolfun: till-, i think10:33
ruskieStskeeps, well keep rootfs as is... but use the mmc for things like /usr as well10:34
Venomrushwhat's the diff between poweroff and softpoweroff ?10:34
dolfunit looks till- oh ty -- it looks like there is a way to get bluetooth mouse control for n90010:34
Stskeepsruskie: the problem is that mmc is slower than internal flash10:34
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Stskeepsruskie: so you'll feel that for sure10:34
ruskieStskeeps, hmm I don't really10:34
dolfunfor presentationns. can fremantle x.org handle joystick input devices10:34
ruskieand that's what I did10:34
dolfunput n900 attached to beamer, then use zeemote or usb device to control10:35
dolfunthis would sell many devices10:35
dolfunhello world :)10:35
johnxxalso, swap is on mmc so if it thrashes bad and you need to swap out and launch an app at the same time it's not very OPTimal :)10:35
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ruskieiirc there is a bluemaeom app in one of the repos that gives HID profiles10:35
MeceVenomrush, non soft is the -9 version?10:35
Stskeepsthat said, maemo changing to a system where it boots originally from MMC and then having fast-access stuff in NAND could be interesting10:36
dolfunthank you ruskie, i will look into this.10:36
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dolfunvery interesting Stskeeps10:36
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dolfunlike /usr/bin or /tmp orwhat10:36
Stskeepswell the stuff that has a performance need10:37
dolfuncan we profile filel access on maemo os10:37
dolfunto find most accessed10:37
Stskeepsprobably10:37
dolfunheh heh10:37
dolfunpower of linux10:37
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dolfunmaybe some smart filter to lsof type data10:38
jaem_Stskeeps, why doesn't the Mer wiki have testing image pages anymore?10:38
johnxxhmmm...I'd really like to see unionfs actually work ...10:38
Mecehow about swap in nand?10:38
Mecethat could use some speed...10:38
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Stskeepsjaem_: we just mention them on mer-chatter10:38
jaem_Stskeeps, ah... I was out of the loop for a while10:39
johnxxMece, I think the idea is that you either want root on nand and swap on mmc or vice-versa10:39
jaem_and bugs go to the main tracker, then?10:39
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Stskeepsjaem_: right10:39
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johnxxhands down, the N900 is the best phone of all time: http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/2343947/?view=results10:42
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Venomrushany particular reason why n900 starts network carrier's on boot rather than using the available wlan?10:43
`0660_it's only for 2009 and i voted even though i haven't yet received my n900 :)10:43
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johnxxVenomrush, probably just a non-optimized situation since they don't expect you to reboot all that often10:44
Mecejohnxx, lol10:44
asidjazzgcc -Wall -g $1.c -o $1 `pkg-config libosso gtk+-2.0 --cflags` -o $1 `pkg-config libosso gtk+-2.0 --libs`10:45
asidjazznow were talkin10:45
johnxxif it were any poll that actually mattered I'd feel a little pang of guilt that we totally stuffed the ballot boxes ...10:45
johnxxI think you can give it --cflags and --libs at the same time10:45
asidjazz[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > gcc -Wall -g gtk_helloworld-1.c  \ `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0` -o gtk_helloworld-1  \ `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0`10:47
asidjazz[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >10:47
asidjazzhow do i figure out which package thats in johnxx10:47
asidjazzwoops wrong paste10:47
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johnxxah! a trick question10:47
asidjazzexample_statusmenu.h:4:47: error: libhildondesktop/libhildondesktop.h: No such file or directory10:47
asidjazzim adding the hildon-1 libs/cfags10:48
johnxxdpkg -S libhildondesktop.h10:48
johnxxthen: dpkg -L <pkg> | grep /usr/lib/pkg-config10:48
ruskiejohnxx, iirc it's /usr/lib/pkgconfig10:50
johnxxthanks10:50
Mecejohnxx, simply reaping the benefits of a community10:50
asidjazzlibhildondesktop1-dev10:50
asidjazzhmm10:50
* ruskie hopes ho won't get a brick this time around10:50
asidjazzPackage libhildondesktop1-dev was not found in the pkg-config search path.10:51
johnxxasidjazz, yeah. I gave you two commands to run10:51
asidjazzjohnxx: that grep returned onthing10:51
johnxxah, cut the grep off then10:51
johnxxI gave you the wrong dir as ruskie pointed out10:52
* Mece wonders whatm problems ruskie's ho had with her/his device before...10:52
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ruskieMece, I'm doing insane things with it ;)10:52
asidjazzjohnxx http://pastie.org/73151410:52
johnxxMece, I think he got a piece of build material instead of a phone :)10:52
ruskieMece, like repartitioning the eMMC, changing default shell etc... etc..10:53
ruskiethough I just hit an issue it seems10:53
johnxxasidjazz, looking at that ouput and my grep doesn't give you a clue as to what you're looking for?10:53
ruskieseems like it doesn't like changing the default shell10:53
ruskieatleast not for user10:53
Meceruskie, lol, I thought you were referring to your wife...10:53
ruskieyay... fresh brick10:54
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ruskiegood thing I backed up /home/user just now10:54
ruskiethough... f...10:54
asidjazzjohnxx: gotcha10:54
Zeddyguys, anyone here that happends to know how one could doa drag-drop with the n900 browser.. :P10:54
ruskieI forgot to copy it over10:54
asidjazzthis is odd10:54
Meceruskie, thanks for the heads up, i was acually just about to try that10:54
Zeddyeverytime i try dragging an element on a web page it just zooms in >-<10:54
asidjazz(.text+0x18): undefined reference to `main'10:54
asidjazzcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status10:54
asidjazzwoops10:54
ruskieMece, :)10:54
asidjazz/scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486/bin/../i486-pc-linux-gnu/libc/usr/lib/crt1.o: In function `_start':10:54
asidjazz(.text+0x18): undefined reference to `main'10:54
asidjazzcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status10:54
ruskieI do wonder why it has this issue though10:54
ruskieit does lack a /etc/shells file10:55
johnxxZeddy, trag in from the left, off screen, then tap the pointer icon that shows up10:55
ruskieso that might be it10:55
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Meceruskie, what did you change it to?10:55
ruskiezsh10:55
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ruskieyes I've built my own zsh package10:55
johnxxruskie, probably some script that's has some ash'ism and doesn't do the right thing in bash10:56
Zeddyno pointer for me :o10:56
hrwmorning10:56
Meceruskie, i was going with bash...10:56
hrw~curse Quim for bug #513910:56
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5139 Provide multi-user chat (chatroom / IRC) support again10:56
johnxxmornin' hrw10:56
asidjazzohwell im over this for a bit &10:56
Zeddyok, got the pointer, but lol when i try clicking the pointer vanishes :p10:56
ruskiehmm I do wonder if there's a shells file somewhere that needs it in10:56
ruskiereflashes10:57
hrw~curse DDP just to start a day10:57
ruskieI'll probably need the better part of the week for this10:57
johnxxZeddy, keep trying. it should work. you just click on the pointer box once it shows up. then it should show a red line through it. drag all you want then click the pointer-box again to go back to normal mode10:58
ruskiegood thing I'm documenting most of my changes10:58
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* johnxx heads off to bed10:59
johnxx'night all10:59
ruskiefrom repartioning to others10:59
Zeddyoh you have to click the box :) thanks!10:59
LinuxCodenn johnxx10:59
Zeddythis is a pretty not-so-obvius thing :P10:59
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ruskienow I'll try without any changes and just change the shell to zsh10:59
ruskieand see what happens10:59
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johnxxruskie, you caused a mini-netsplit. that's what happens :P11:00
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ruskierofl11:00
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andre__whou. quim seems to be one a "moved to brainstorm" spree in bugzilla.11:01
Venomrushyup11:02
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Venomrushbut you can also argue it's a bug11:02
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Venomrushas user expects this to happen but system is not doing it11:03
Mecehrw, that is actually annoying. i tested multi-user chat on gtalk. worked fine on N900..11:03
Mecehrw, too bad you can't initiate one.11:03
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hrwMece: I hope that will not end in 'it was not made in first maemo5 releases so will never be done by Nokia'11:06
Stskeepsandre__: mm, maybe a bit premature since m.o is horribly slow, especially in brainstorm atm :/11:07
andre__well, I'm never sure either whether it's Brainstorm because it's too wide, or still an enhancement ticket in Bugzilla11:07
andre__and in doubt I keep it.11:07
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bergieStskeeps: speed should be better when we get more reasonable hardware up :-)11:09
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Stskeepsbergie: yeah, of course - i'm just saying the timing isn't that good :)11:09
X-FadeI just kicked it a bit, should be a little faster now.11:10
bergiethx11:10
Stskeepsa lot faster, too11:10
ruskiehmm ok confirmed it doesn't like /bin/zsh on user shell11:11
hrwhow many regressions since maemo4 was already found?11:12
hrwmaemo5 dropped chatroom support, got ugly fingerfriendly ui, something more?11:12
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ruskiewell reflash again11:13
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andre__well, chatroom support was never officially supported.11:13
ruskieatleast now I know what the prob is11:13
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zaheermlcuk, ping11:13
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asidjazzwhat doesw * mean inside () in cpp11:13
asidjazzlike void example_init (AppData * data)11:14
zaheermit means a pointer11:14
asidjazzdata?11:14
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zaheermso AppData *data is a pointer being passed as a parameter not the actual data11:14
asidjazzsame as *data ?11:14
asidjazzoh so the space means nothing11:14
asidjazzk11:14
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zaheermnothing11:14
hrwandre__: o rly? I just started IM on os2008 and in menu Chat I have "Enter char room..." "Chat rooms..." options11:14
hrwandre__: I would not call it 'unsupported'11:15
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asidjazzzaheerm: and that means when data is modified outside of this function its reflected in the function?11:15
andre__hrw, oh really? thanks for misunderstanding my words by purpose11:15
andre__i think you know what i meant.11:15
asidjazzzaheerm: and it can modify the stuff in data and itll replicate outside of the function ?11:15
zaheermasidjazz, there is no replication11:15
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hrwandre__: for me if feature is available in official firmware then it is supported.11:16
asidjazzright but other than that im right? :)11:16
andre__hrw, then you've learned something today: it's not like that.11:16
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lcukhey zaheerm11:16
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hrwandre__: sure. will maemo6 remove wifi encryption and tell that this was never supported even when available?11:17
andre__hrw, but sure, it sucks that it's missing in maemo5 :-/11:17
zaheermlcuk, can you pm me your email address so i can send you that video editor slide11:17
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andre__hrw, I can't talk in public about features, sorry.11:17
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hrwandre__: I am used to nokia devices missing obvious things or have them made in wrong way11:18
PaulFertserandre__: lol, that's maemo in action11:18
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zaheermhrw, maemo 5 is not maemo 411:18
suihkulokki11:16 < hrw> andre__: for me if feature is available in official firmware then it is supported.11:18
andre__yeah. and not s60 either. but people don't get it...11:18
suihkulokkiso everything created by comminuty is not usable?11:18
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hrwzaheerm: I know. but I would except it to be next step ahead from maemo4 not next step back11:18
zaheermandre__, however there is no harm suggesting things in bugzilla that work in both s60 world, maemo 4 and other platforms as things to work on11:19
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zaheermhrw, i don't think anyone will call maemo 5 a step back11:19
hrwsuihkulokki: I do not want to use pidgin for IM if system provides me IM11:19
andre__zaheerm, sure. but I get bored by people screaming "regression" when coming from s6011:19
PaulFertserzaheerm: suggesting is the key word. But nobody will even answer about whether it's planned to implement your suggestion or not just because no nokia employee is allowed to "talk about features".11:19
hrwandre__: I have os2005/6/7/8 and s60v3fp1 experience and will move to maemo5 (if DDP will ever work)11:20
andre__PaulFertser, ask the marketing guys to get an answer. "nobody" is wrong. and you know that.11:20
zaheermPaulFertser, well some have mentioned that it is in process of implementation11:20
lcukzaheerm, why dont you put all the info up publicly and that way everyone gets benefit :) my address to ping the url to will be liquid@gmail11:20
PaulFertserandre__: nobody among the engineers. I can't trust marketing guys, sorry.11:20
lcukafter work tonight im gonna write up a full thing about the weekend :)11:20
zaheermlcuk, i will, but want to scan all the slides first before putting what i already have digitally11:20
hrwandre__: marketing guys can tell anything11:20
andre__PaulFertser, then enjoy live in North Korea. sorry for capitalism.11:20
andre__hrw, so if something accidentially works (like google sync for some people by using MfE) though it was ever tested it's "unsupported". but well, I think we both know :)11:21
hrwandre__: and then engineers will kill marketing team for giving round popups for people11:21
lcukyeah so if you were gonna send to me if oyu need a couple of days to process themthen do that, dont rush on my behalf ive got work11:21
PaulFertserandre__: the fact capitalism is evil doesn't make North Korea's regime any better and you know that.11:21
hrwandre__: yep11:21
* Stskeeps gets the popcorn11:22
Stskeepsopenness discussion first at 10am instead of 8am, impressive11:22
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ruskiehmm ok definately does not like /bin/zsh... now tested a few times and it's consistent11:22
zaheermregarding google sync, i spent quite a chunk of my weekend working on multi calendar sync and it works (though command line only so far)11:22
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zaheermhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/aandza/4164018365/ is a screenshot11:22
ruskieatleast not as changed in passwd11:22
PaulFertserStskeeps: i'm not for discussion, i just loled again over "regression/offical feature" argument. I didn't come here again to lose everybody's time.11:23
PaulFertser/me's off11:23
hrwzaheerm: as long as it does not support any SyncML server (like scheduleworld) I will complain anyway11:23
SpeedEvilhow do I set the SMS centre number?11:23
ruskiemake it use te one from the sim card?11:23
andre__Stskeeps, I'm sorry that I got up that late ;-)11:23
asidjazzso something like     program = HILDON_PROGRAM(hildon_program_get_instance());11:23
zaheermhrw, feel free to complain or add to the brainstorm about google sync (not that google calendar supports syncml)11:23
asidjazzwhat exacty is HILDON_PROGRAM()11:23
andre__PaulFertser, I disagree already with "the fact capitalism is evil", obviously :)11:23
asidjazzwhy is it in capitals11:24
PaulFertserandre__: as a sidenote, i bet you do not trust the marketing guys either.11:24
hrwasidjazz: go to developer wiki and read examples + docs11:24
andre__depends on "trust"...11:24
zaheermhrw, you are free to modify my code and add some random syncml implementation to replace the gdata stuff11:24
asidjazzhrw: i mean generally .. like why is it in capitals?11:24
hrwzaheerm: iirc I added notes there11:24
hrwasidjazz: because it is macro11:24
andre__PaulFertser, I don't know enough about their work to be able to say whether I trust them or not...11:24
asidjazzah a macro11:24
hrwzaheerm: I am sick each time when I look at syncml libraries direction11:25
SpeedEvilruskie: SMS seems not to work outbound - hence the question - so I was wanting to check.11:25
PaulFertserandre__: that you can rely on them, that you can expect their answers to be honest etc. Just think about your attitude to the marketing of any other company, e.g. when you're buying a fridge or a car? I bet you're very sceptical about what they say and promise. Nokia's marketing can't be any different, since they share the same capitalistic attitude as you've noted.11:26
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andre__PaulFertser, have Nokia marketing folks been dishonest to you?11:26
andre__PaulFertser, I like capitalism.11:26
* hrw hopes that n900 will not repeat 6310i bugs11:27
hrw;D11:27
zaheermlcuk, ok will put everything on maemo wiki once i have it all digital11:27
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lcuk\o/ sounds like a plan11:27
PaulFertserandre__: i'd say the "supported features" issue is all about dishonest marketing.11:27
andre__PaulFertser, ah, i get your point11:28
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PaulFertserandre__: also, the usb host issue. What's about that? Why nobody can get a distinct answer whether it can actually work or not and what are the restrictions?11:28
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andre__hmm. I must admit that I don't know exactly that the usb host issue is11:29
Zeddybtw, i just recently learned QT, and made a few graphical applications for the windows platform11:29
Zeddyhow different is it to code maemo apps with qt?11:29
PaulFertserandre__: keeping the information about this major feature is something dishonest i'd say. Everybody knows that the SoC used is indeed capable of that. So they expect to see usb host supported. Keeping silence is dishonest. Either they say it's possible with given restrictions or they say it's not possible due to that and that. Keeping silence _is_ dishonest.11:30
Zeddyis there a crazy learning curve? =)11:30
PaulFertserandre__: many people want usb host support on n900. And nobody can tell for sure if it's possible with given hardware.11:30
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andre__PaulFertser, http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode ?11:31
PaulFertserandre__: officially it's unsupported, yes. But is it possible at all or not is of interest to the majority. Nobody cares about "officially supported", it's a general purpose computer after all, talking about the features just doesn't fit this context. But hardware is what matters.11:31
hrwZeddy: my application from destkop builds fine for maemo5 without code changes. but UI need lot of work11:31
andre__...or is that wiki page for N8x0 only? /me wondering11:32
Zeddyoh11:32
PaulFertserandre__: yes, this one. For n900.11:32
Zeddyso the ui elements work differently depending on platform11:32
dolfunUI on a lot of ports needs a lot of work to come up to Maemo5 standards11:32
Zeddyallright11:32
dolfunin the N800 days, it was ok to have a butt-ugly gtk mess11:32
hrwZeddy: basically prepare for making UI from scratch11:32
Zeddyouch11:32
dolfunyea11:32
Zeddybut a application built for maemo works fine on windows?11:33
hrwZeddy: my app has simple UI but amount of required changes make me stop maemo5 development of it for now11:33
hrwZeddy: will but will be not comfortable to use11:33
Zeddyok11:33
hrwZeddy: maemo5 UI bases on many QMainWindows linked to each other etc11:34
ZeddyO_o11:34
Zeddythat sounds ugly imo11:34
hrwthats my feeling after some playing11:34
hrwZeddy: #qt-maemo will tell you more11:34
Zeddyoh cool11:34
cehtehQMainWindow? .. sounds like QT/Maemo611:34
andre__PaulFertser, good question. So did somebody ask Nokia about this?11:34
hrwcehteh: maemo6? I use Qt on maemo5sdk11:35
hrw~curse ddp11:35
cehtehah ok11:35
PaulFertserandre__: they did, on the omap-kernel ml. The answer was that due to stupid nobody-needs-that-damn-usb-logo certification issue they decided to "disable it". No further clarifications followed.11:35
lcukzaheerm, since hte video editor had a lot of interest, are there any other people with notes that they can get uploaded.  if you make a start on the wiki page about it, perhaps others can help you flesh it out11:36
StskeepsPaulFertser: ah, but they do need USB logo or face possible legal action if they have to claim it's USB :/11:36
andre__PaulFertser, ahem, well, certification/PICS issues can easily trigger some lawsuits...11:36
StskeepsPaulFertser: URL for post?11:36
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zaheermlcuk, yep will start, i collated all the notes people made on friday and i will scan them at some point today11:37
andre__btw, I guess that bug 5300 has some similar reasoning currently (certification issues)11:37
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager11:37
lcukyeah there was a big wodge of them, did you get them all, or has bilboed got some?11:38
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StskeepsPaulFertser: certification is (sadly) a needed thing and something many open source projects don't pay attention to :/ if they did, some of the stuff might be less crazy11:39
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MeceStskeeps, I kinda like the crazyness...11:44
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StskeepsPaulFertser: cos otherwise they might be opening themselves to lawsuits if they claim Bluetooth support etc.. :P11:44
Stskeeps(personally i think many open source projects are living in a fairy tale bubble but so it goes..)11:45
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suihkulokkiPaulFertser: notice that the host usb (especially when using musb instead of ehci) on beagleboard isn't exactly reliable either11:49
* ruskie belives most of the world is living in a fairy tail called capitalism11:49
hrwI have some idea about testing is usb host possible on n900 but prefer to wait and check it on device11:51
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PaulFertserandre__: Stskeeps: they can avoid claiming official usb support11:56
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Stskeepsmight work in china or russia but doubt in europe..11:57
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andre__PaulFertser, do you have the URL for the omap-kernel ml posting?11:58
* andre__ searches the backlog11:58
PaulFertserandre__: sure, i'll find it11:58
andre__thanks11:58
PaulFertserStskeeps: what? You just do not claim your device is usb-compatible and that's it.11:58
StskeepsPaulFertser: yeah, and you lose a lot of money since your customers won't buy it cos it's seemingily not usb compatible..11:59
hrwmy idea is: for now n900 has usb device + usb charging implemented. so all 4 usb lines are in use: +5V, GND, D+, D- ones. usb device require gnd/d+/d-, charging require +5v/gnd ones. usb host require same as usb device but is expected to have something on +5v line (which n900 cannot provide).11:59
dolfuneuropean government outlaws non-standard USB?11:59
Stskeepshrw: how was it on the 770? i think it might be a similar situation11:59
PaulFertserStskeeps: you can say that it's usb-like interface probably compatible with most other usb devices. And tell the story about the stupid certification.11:59
hrwwhat if we use microusb cable with +5v line cutted off + self-powered usbhub/usbdevice  and then load selfbuilt kernel module for ehci/musb?12:00
Stskeepshrw: that's what i'm thinking too..12:00
dolfunor invent a new name "USBplus!"12:00
hrwStskeeps: it is same on all devices which has usbhost. on n900 you just need to cut +5v line for device safety12:00
andre__uhm, "usb like" instead of usb? well, don't know if i'd buy that...12:00
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PaulFertserandre__: Stskeeps: linked from the WP n900 article :) http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html12:00
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ruskiehmm is there a way to remove all the google stuff out of the browser? i.e. I don't want to have a use google to search for this at all?12:00
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andre__thanks!12:00
dolfun(compatible witth most usb 2.0 devices)12:00
StskeepsPaulFertser: that's maemo-developers, not linux-omap, but OK :)12:00
StskeepsPaulFertser: either way, a company that deals highly in certification (telecommunications, etc), i doubt they're going to do that..12:01
hrwStskeeps: with 770 I did not played with usb host. with n810 nothing needs to be done - it just works when usbdevice has own power12:01
sejoruskie: i think it is possible yes12:01
sejoruskie: let me check12:01
ruskiesejo, I checked about:config and removed stuff but that still showed up12:01
PaulFertserStskeeps: i'm not sure freerunners has passed any usb certification and it was never an issue with anything.12:01
ruskiefrankly I'm not to concerned if it would require recompiling it12:01
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hrwStskeeps: how it is with n900? no idea. so far I had less then 5 minutes in total with n900 in hands12:02
sejoruskie: ach no can't find something sorry12:02
Stskeepshrw: i am personally waiting for you and fanoush to get n900s in your hands :P12:02
* ruskie wonders why12:02
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hrwStskeeps: I wonder when my bank will decide to remove 250โ‚ฌ lock from my card. tomorrow it will be 4weeks since order12:03
dolfunserge, fanoush, hrw could have been approached to receie prototypes12:03
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dolfunthis was an oversight by (cough) someone12:03
Stskeepsdolfun: serge..?12:03
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dolfunmplayer dude12:03
hrwdolfun: que?12:03
Stskeepsdolfun: works for nokia12:03
ruskiehmm nice... my privacy guard for the n900 has been sent processed and will be shipped out today12:04
dolfunoh12:04
dolfunsince when12:04
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hrwdolfun: and which n900 prototype? rover had many of them rather12:04
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PaulFertserandre__: this post http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020836.html doesn't convince me. AFAIK there's nothing special about usb A connectors, i do not know of any extra line that should go from it anywhere.12:04
hrwdolfun: I remember rover talks when OH existed so ~2 years ago12:04
dolfunah12:04
dolfunsorry then it was just fanoush12:04
dolfunbut then again, recent activity is what gets noticed12:05
dolfun<end>12:05
hrwanyway time will show12:05
Stskeepsdolfun: mm. the push was towards getting apps into extras (pre-summit), then the summit (300 loaner devices), and then the slightly malfunctioning DDP12:06
dolfundo anyonen here use new vmware sdk prefinal_12:06
dolfundoes12:06
StskeepsPaulFertser: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_OTG12:06
Stskeepsgo read the micro plugs12:06
hrwStskeeps: DDP still is at 'we accept orders only' stage12:06
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Stskeepshrw: hence my notion of slightly malfunctioning12:06
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dolfunwondering if it makes my live easy or difficult12:06
PaulFertserStskeeps: i know but SoC supports host-mode, there's no need for OTG.12:06
StskeepsPaulFertser: true, and that's why i wonder if it's possible to do with a special cable or kernel adjustment12:07
PaulFertserStskeeps: well, otg is not possible on n900, hell with it. But why a simple host-mode can be not possible is unclear.12:07
StskeepsPaulFertser: either way you'd need to switch it into host mode from very beginning12:07
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PaulFertserStskeeps: sure12:07
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PaulFertserStskeeps: so you see, everybody's wondering but nokia marketing guys do not give a damn about it, uncool, heh?12:08
hrwPaulFertser: omap3 iirs has two usb ports - one of them is OTG, second is not. which one nokia used?12:08
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Stskeepsprobably the otg one, for gadget12:08
hrwyep12:08
StskeepsPaulFertser: well did anyone step up and ask specific questions? ..12:08
StskeepsPaulFertser: like, "what's the new pinout of the usb port then" or "wouldn't it technically be possible to force the port into host mode from kernel initialization"12:09
PaulFertserStskeeps: yes, the ML post was just about that, the specific questions. Where to ask those questions anyway? bugtracker? It's software-only. Maemo ML? Already tried, software-only too. Just where?12:09
StskeepsPaulFertser: show me your ML post12:09
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PaulFertserStskeeps: that's not my ML post but it asks specific questions: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020834.html12:10
PaulFertserIf it's "not possible at all" there's no point asking about registers or pinouts.12:10
sejois there someone working on the caldav support?12:11
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StskeepsPaulFertser: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020836.html12:12
PaulFertserStskeeps: btw, freerunner is not OTG-capable but we can switch to/from hostmode whenever is needed.12:12
Stskeepsit was answered by one of the top honchos :P12:12
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PaulFertserStskeeps: he says he's no usb expert. His answer lacks details so i doubt it's correct.12:12
hrwbtw - is there a way to grab maemo-dev ML archive as mbox?12:12
StskeepsPaulFertser: he's one of the main kernel guys and you have to consider that devices HW and SW was seperate until recently12:13
Stskeepschances are they might still be physically seperate12:13
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PaulFertserStskeeps: there's no need for extra lines when you switch host/device manually. Probably otg is impossible, ok. But the host mode doesn't require anything extra. And he doesn't even say if the hardware has a power-converter to supply something over the usb or not.12:13
PaulFertserStskeeps: so whom to ask? Mythical hardware guys nobody's seen ever?12:14
* w00t notes that replying to that mail would have made a good first step12:14
StskeepsPaulFertser: i'd say get going with checking out the pins on the USB plug and see if you can modify the kernel to force it into host mode.12:15
PaulFertserw00t: do you propose me to reply to that mail asking specific hardware questions?12:15
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StskeepsPaulFertser: and yes, then people have something to point at if they roam the buildings for people to ask about it.12:15
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PaulFertserStskeeps: the pins are exactly the same. There're two additional pulldown (?) resistors needed and i do not know if they included in the design or should be connected externally. The same about power supply.12:16
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Stskeepsand get specific answers12:16
RST38h<yawn> So, are we having another "all hardware must be free or ELSE" debate?12:16
StskeepsRST38h: nop12:16
w00tthat's what -i'd- do, yes12:16
StskeepsPaulFertser: well that's valuable knowledge then12:17
* sivang wonders why people call themselves w00t 12:17
RST38hGood, 'cause it was getting boring12:17
PaulFertserStskeeps: ok, will do today's evening, thanks for the pointers. In fact if i could get a hold of the n900 schematics i think i could have obtained the answer myself.12:17
w00tsivang: I've been called this for around 8-9 years now, it's a bit too late to change it really12:17
StskeepsPaulFertser: yeah, but chinese copyists yadda yadda :P12:17
sivangw00t: I see, how old were you when you were named this ?12:18
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w00tsivang: 14ish12:18
StskeepsPaulFertser: but anyway, for any particular problem that's not easy to find information on, you need to poke people and roam the halls of either the internet or nokia offices to get a answer :P12:18
sivangw00t: right, okay12:18
Stskeepsso with good questions in your hand you can get far12:18
PaulFertserStskeeps: they were copying nokia phones before, they will continue to do that today and tomorrow. I seriously doubt hiding schematics has any measurable economical benefit.12:18
sivanganybody knows how am I supposed to have a bash terminal spit out GUI to the Xephyr from the scratchbox shell ?12:19
PaulFertserStskeeps: ok, thanks a lot, i'll prepare a set of questions.12:19
StskeepsPaulFertser: i've had chinese manufactors ask me to not publish schematics.12:19
sivangI want to run an app from there, and see the ouput and UI at the emulator12:19
Stskeepsthat's how tough the market is even over there.12:19
sivangalso, I cannot find where to install PyGTK on it, it is not in any catalogue or source that comes with the SDK12:19
StskeepsPaulFertser: anyway, CC me (carsten@maemo.org) on the questions, a12:20
Stskeepsta12:20
PaulFertserStskeeps: sure. Do you by any chance know if maemo-developers require subscription?12:20
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StskeepsPaulFertser: can't recall sorry12:20
PaulFertsernp12:20
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PaulFertsersee you later, thanks to all for constructive suggestions. :)12:21
Stskeepsand if you need me to review it before sending, i'll be happy to12:21
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PaulFertserStskeeps: i'll do my best to avoid all my nasty words and nokia criticism, so no need to worry ;)12:22
Stskeepsyeah, it's easier to get answers on questions that doesn't come with papercuts that come out at you when you read them12:23
sivangdo I add sources by hand to the sources.list file ?12:23
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Stskeeps:P12:23
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sivangPaulFertser: what nasty worlds and nokia criticism? You should have had a SAMSUNG cell phone, then you'd feel the need to criticise and curse :)12:24
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sivangPaulFertser: s/worlds/words/12:25
PaulFertsersivang: btw, do you know raster is working on one? And it'll have proper upstream kernel, X and E preinstalled? Should be really fancy.12:25
sivangPaulFertser: ah nice, who is rater?12:26
sivangraster12:26
sivangwhat's E?12:26
PaulFertsersivang: i mean samsung hired raster quite some time ago and they aim to produce something fancy that will be a real GNU/Linux device.12:26
sivangah nice12:26
sivangstill their hardware and UIs are unintuitive to me and a bunch of Israeli custoemrs.12:26
PaulFertsersivang: Enlightment, and Raster is one of the great hackers/artists who's a primary author of E.12:26
sivang(Actually a large base)12:26
sivangPaulFertser: I thougth enlightment was a goner, nice to see it will be resorected12:27
StskeepsPaulFertser: re that i don't think that's exactly what they're trying to do .. raster is trying to push something like it12:27
StskeepsPaulFertser: but as with any company it's an uphill battle12:27
* sivang pets GTK/Qt/Maemo12:27
PaulFertserStskeeps: indeed. But i prefer to hope for the better ;)12:27
StskeepsPaulFertser: so technically you could end up with a locked up samsung phone that happens to run EFL12:27
Stskeeps:P12:27
glass_sammys prob is having too many baskets12:28
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PaulFertsersivang: elementary is damn nice and fancy and in fact more optimised. Very clueful graphic optimisation code. And it also features another approach to the theming: most of the gui logic can be themed, that's quite the contrast with other popular toolkits.12:28
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hrwPaulFertser: you know that E17 do not require X?12:29
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PaulFertserhrw: i think yes, it has opengles render etc. But i can assure you that raster respects FDO standards much more than maemo designers.12:29
sejoweird when calling people don't hear me?12:30
sivangPaulFertser: google finds stuff about elementary schools12:30
sejoI hear them but not the way around12:30
Stskeepssejo: did you install FM radio?12:30
sejoStskeeps: yes12:30
sivangsejo: dude, how do I install bash/ipython onto the scratchbox and run them from the maemo desktop?12:30
Stskeepssejo: you'd want to get rid of that12:30
* sivang high fives sejo 12:30
PaulFertsersivang: http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary12:31
sejohey sivang have no idea hoven't done that yet12:31
Stskeepssejo: you'll need to reflash or remove fm radio to get your microphone back. FM radio breaks something atm it seems12:31
sivangsejo: ah okay, I'll continue searching the wiki12:32
sivangsejo: thanks anyway :)12:32
sivangPaulFertser: ah, looks a bit too minimalistic12:32
sivang(in my tsate)12:32
sivangas in 'doll'12:32
sejoStskeeps: oops12:32
PaulFertsersivang: not really, you can use full Edje theming powers with it.12:32
hrwbtw - can someone remind me default prtitions on n900?12:33
sejobleh uninstall doesn't do the trick12:33
Sargunhey PaulFertser, got your n900 yet?12:33
sejoStskeeps: how do I reflash it?12:34
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ruskiehrw, / ubifs /home mmcblk1p2 /home/user/MyDocs mmcblk0p1 and swap mmcblk0p312:34
Sargunubifs?12:34
hrwruskie: what sizes?12:34
hrwSargun: ubifs12:34
hrwSargun: fs for flash chips12:34
ruskie256, 2gb, everything else, 76812:34
hrwruskie: and /opt/ is?12:35
ruskieln -s /home/opt /opt12:35
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hrwargh12:36
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Stskeepssejo:12:36
Stskeeps~flashing12:36
Stskeeps..12:36
* Stskeeps pokes infobot12:36
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ersinyo this is a totally n00b question but here goes anyway12:37
ersinhow does everyone do that "pokes whatever" or "does action" stuff in irc?12:37
ruskie/me something12:37
* ersin gets it finally12:37
ersinthank you very much, that's been driving me crazy12:37
w00thehe12:37
PaulFertsersivang: i'm not even going to12:38
ruskie:)12:38
PaulFertserSargun: ^^12:38
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PaulFertsersivang: Edje theming is a whole new world, just try it, who knows, probably you'll got hooked up ;)12:38
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sivangPaulFertser: I might :)12:40
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Khertan_Hi !12:41
RST38hOMG another widget set12:41
ersinhi khertan_12:41
Khertan_hello ersin12:41
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PaulFertserRST38h: it's not12:42
Sargunuser__, happy t-mobile.12:42
* Sargun needs t-mobile.12:42
RST38hnot another, not widget, or not a set?12:42
PaulFertserRST38h: not widget set.12:42
PaulFertserEFL is much more than that12:42
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ersinEFL port to maemo?  lol12:43
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* RST38h meant Elementary though12:43
ruskiethat would actually be nice12:43
ersinwell samsung's pushing it now in bada12:43
ruskienot really planing on moving away from nokia phones12:44
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ruskiethe software might be crap for a few revisions but they tend to make solid devices12:44
ersinvery true12:44
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ersinthough i've never used any nokia phone other than the candybars12:44
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ersineven those things were designed perfectly12:44
ruskieI used a n5110 for 6 years12:44
ersinright on12:44
ruskiea n5140i for ~212:44
ruskieand a n95 for 18 months12:45
Stskeepsersin: raster didn't know anything about bada and was a bit surprised. i doubt it.12:45
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Stskeeps:P12:45
ersinO_O12:45
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ersinheh heh12:45
ersinjust you wait12:45
sejoStskeeps: uninstall and reboot does the trick12:45
PaulFertserI was using some really bad looking nokia 1100 that my friend found somewhere in dirt on street. Worked fine so far. Heard many similar stories.12:45
Stskeepssejo: good12:45
sejoStskeeps: but you need to reboot after removing the fm radio12:45
sejoStskeeps: perhaps it should be removed from the repo?12:46
Stskeepssejo: wheels are in motion12:46
PaulFertserBut i didn't manage a dumbphone with a UI that was appealing to me: no useless animation, as much as possible information, shortcuts-based. No dumb cellphone was sane enough to provide that.12:46
sejoStskeeps: lol k :p12:46
* sejo is going to setup a VM and start writing CalDAV support... 12:46
ruskieersin, of course I only managed to get the n95 into a properly usable state like half a year or so ago12:47
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ersinruskie: never used it, though i heard its praises sung12:47
ruskiewell I guess for me something like a n900 is the near ultimate device12:47
ruskiethe n95 was just to contrained for my needs12:48
ruskieI'll use it as a gps device in the car now12:48
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sejowhat would be the best OS to put the sdk on (ubuntu/fedora/...)12:49
ruskieshould probably run on anything12:49
ruskieiirc it does go into a scratchbox install12:49
sejoruskie: yeah but on my 64bit gentoo the scratchbox doesn't work :/12:49
ruskieand the scripts are quite automated12:50
ruskieit doesn't?12:50
ruskieit does on my 64bit source mage12:50
ruskiekernel with enabled 32bit binaries12:50
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sejoach dang dunno if my kernel does that12:51
hrwsejo: grab maemosdk virt image - it uses ubuntu12:51
sejoI alsways get bash: ./hello: No such file or directory12:51
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Lateralushow do you start an app in scratchbox in the terminal as though it were launched by the application menu?12:52
hrwLateralus: find .desktop of app, read it, launch what you read from it12:53
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Lateralushrw: I assume you mean the Exec line?12:54
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sejohmm it does have IA32 config  on12:55
Lateralushrw: I am using the same from scratchbox, /usr/bin/myapp, it opens when I do that, but not when I click the application icon in xephyr12:56
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X-Fade!seen pycage13:02
X-Fade~seen pycage13:02
hrwLateralus: yes, Exec line13:02
X-FadeHmm no bots anymore?13:02
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hrwLateralus: no idea fro me13:02
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rangeARGH. Please brainstorm, let me save my idea ....13:10
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divinegodI would like to contribute to danish l10n for n900, what should I do?13:13
andre__divinegod, how do you mean?13:13
andre__Improving the translation of existing software provided by Nokia? Or 3rd party applications that do not have a Danish translation?13:13
Stskeepsandre__: i can only imagine he means improve the translation as it's utterly horrible13:14
Stskeeps:P13:14
andre__of course it is. that's where nokia saves money ;-)13:14
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Stskeepsdivinegod: for harmattan there's supposed to be community localization, but i'm not sure there's any direct ways to submit l10n issues except for lengthy bug reports that may or may not be heard13:16
divinegodandre__: I have the n900 but some of the translations seem odd..13:16
Stskeeps(og hej!)13:16
divinegodHej13:16
divinegod:)13:16
* andre__ seconds what Stskeeps wrote13:17
divinegodok, i'm filing a bug13:17
andre__garrr. now where is the N900 User Guide on the internet? sigh13:17
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andre__divinegod: with good steps to reproduce, and don't dump 30 weird strings from all apps in one report, please. :)13:17
Stskeepsdivinegod: screenshots help13:18
Stskeepsctrl-shift-p, record the "weird" strings13:18
hrwStskeeps: I heard that maemo7 will be 105% community based13:18
divinegodandre__: it's just a single weird string in the program manager13:19
andre__hrw, but if you don't help it will only be 102%...13:19
andre__divinegod, ah. go ahead under "Translations"13:19
Stskeepshrw: ah, maemo7, the "what, you expect us (nokia) to develop this system? it's open source. get working!"13:19
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Stskeeps+OS?13:19
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ruskiehmm maemo7 sounds interesting ;)13:23
ruskiemaybe it'll work from n770 up to the latest and greatest at the time ;)13:23
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ManuelSE_and a z8013:25
* ruskie waits to see an Ubuntu Tablet Remix ;)13:25
ManuelSE_how can i make maemo n900 xchat autocomplete nicknames?13:26
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ManuelSE_mer isnt bad, but basing on ubuntu means more forks13:27
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StskeepsManuelSE_: sometimes i do wonder if we would have been easier off with basing on top of busybox and all that jazz, but the development advantages and possibilities exceed that13:29
ruskiebusybox... scary13:29
ruskieatleast the one on the n900 is lacking in some features13:30
ruskielike ls with colours would be nice13:30
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ManuelSE_stskeeps, your choice also means a more do-able mer, so it was a goood one13:31
lardmantimeless_mbp: ping13:31
hrwruskie: apt-get install bash13:31
ruskiehrw, still lacks a colour ls13:31
ruskieand I have both bash and zsh installed13:31
ManuelSE_doable is crucial, abstract dogma is a luxury13:31
hrwsorry,13:31
hrwruskie: apt-get install coreutils13:31
ccookeMorning, all13:31
hrwhi lardman13:32
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ruskieno such package13:33
ruskienot to mention it will probably overwrite or conflict with busybox13:33
lardmanhi hrw13:33
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Lateralushrw: just my own stupidity; forgot to add dh_install lines for the service file in the deb13:34
ruskieneed to make a packagen for ls only... somethig like gls named :)13:34
ersin*meanwhile, a lonely crazed hacker backports nokia patches to modern gtk...*13:34
Stskeepsersin: keep me updated on that, am interested13:35
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andre__same here.13:36
ersinstskeeps: i finished glib and pango, just finished making the first round of patches for gtk, but now the hard part: i have to go through and weed out all the non MAEMO_CHANGES stuff13:36
Stskeepsersin: glib is easy, did you see the set of debian/ patches?13:36
ersinyep13:36
Stskeepsk13:36
ersiner but i didn't use 'em =P13:36
ersinprobably explains why it doesn't work13:36
Stskeepsprobably13:36
Stskeepsit's stock glib + debian/patches dir (afaik)13:37
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ersinnot quite13:37
Stskeepsisn't it?13:37
ersinsome of the packages actually don't have any debian/patches13:37
ersinsome are just patched directly in13:37
Stskeepshttps://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/projects/haf/trunk/glib/debian/patches/?root=maemo&sortby=date13:37
ersinso i've been making my own13:37
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Stskeepscos trunk/glib is just the debian packaging on stage.maemo.org13:37
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Stskeepsand that's what we use in mer too13:38
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Stskeeps(from fremantle glib)13:38
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Stskeepswhich should apply fine on diablo, if that's what you're playing with13:38
ersinodd13:39
Stskeepsin the old glib, it was slightly more fucked :)13:39
ersini'm using diablo and i just did apt-get source libglib2.0-013:39
Stskeepsyeah13:40
Stskeepsdon't do that13:40
ersinand i don't have debian/patches13:40
ersin...13:40
ersinlol13:40
Stskeepsgrab the fremantle glib13:40
ersinwhy fremantle?  i'm using all diablo13:40
Stskeepsersin: 1) it's a later version and 2) it's the same patches13:40
ersinmakes sense13:40
Stskeeps3) packaging is so much saner13:40
Stskeeps:P13:40
ersinas if what i was attempting wasn't hackish enough lol13:40
Stskeepsi'm very interested in the gtk+ work though13:41
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Stskeepsas we need to bring maemo gtk+ to some degree of sanity13:41
ersinwhat's particularly insane about it?  i'm doing this for my own selfish reasons, i'm not aware of the bugs that might be attached to gtk13:41
ersin(all the better)13:41
Stskeepsersin: well, that we don't have a proper way to upgrade to newer gtk+13:41
ersinah13:42
Stskeepsand that harms mer too obviously13:42
ersinquick question for you stskeeps13:42
ersinso i did compile glib and i'm absolutely sure i did it right, even though i didn't use debian/patches (as it doesn't exist in diablo extras-devel)13:42
* ruskie lets the N900 rest and charge up now for a while..13:43
ersinbut when i try to do af-whatever script it says there's a missing symbol13:43
ersindo i have to recompile gtk with the new glib before that goes away?13:43
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ersini.e. is there abi breakage?13:43
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Stskeepsnot sure, depeds on the symbol13:44
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ersinhildon_g_scanner_cache_open13:44
Stskeepsthat's a missing patch in your glib then13:44
ersingrr13:44
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ersinfremantle it is13:45
ersinbut i mean...damn this sucks, i just spent all night doing everything by hand from the diablo sources13:45
ersini've got to figure out some scripts here13:45
ersin=P13:45
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Stskeepsersin: feel free to poke me if you have additional questions. i mean, i'm hired to faciliate OS devel :P13:45
ersinreally?  by nokia?13:46
embeddedIs there anyone who owns a N900?13:46
ruskiehmm will mer eventually support N900 ?13:46
ruskieembedded, yes13:46
rangeanyone left an hour ago.13:46
rangeBut yeah, I have one.13:46
wjtembedded: nah, they're all an elaborate hoax13:46
ruskie:)13:46
Stskeepsersin: no, maemo.org13:46
Termanalol range13:46
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ersinstskeeps: are they hiring ;)?13:46
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Stskeepshttp://mer-project.blogspot.com/2009/10/my-first-day-as-maemoorg-distmaster.html , ersin13:46
Termanawhich in turn is sponsored by Nokia :P13:47
Stskeepsruskie: yes, of course13:47
Stskeepsruskie: i have a port but weird touchscreen issues13:47
embeddedan N900 with firmware 1.2009.42-1113:47
ruskieembedded, naturally13:48
ruskieStskeeps, hmm and everything will function?13:48
ersinwow, very cool, stskeeps13:48
ersinpeople talk flak about nokia, but it's impressive to see a company sponsor such a position13:49
andre__Sigh. I hope that Nokia will push PR1.1 soon. Crossing fingers that this will reduce the number of incoming bug reports :-/13:49
Stskeepsruskie: yes, we'll even make shiny ponies. general rule is that nokia doesn't mind nokia SW on nokia devices. that helps a lot of issues.13:49
ruskieok13:49
ruskieanother question... does mer have some more normal distro style setup? i.e. username/login and so on? or same as maemo... just boot to user and screw it all?13:50
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Stskeepsruskie: we don't rely on /home/user13:51
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rangeandre__: quim seems to be moving some of those to "brainstorm" today :)13:51
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ruskieor better yet instead of asking... is there a page that compares the diffrences... from the low level setup to the highest level?13:51
Stskeepsruskie: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed was the original thoughts13:52
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Stskeepshorribly outdated by now13:53
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ersinstskeeps: if i could ask you a debugging code section...i'm looking at glib/gscanner.c right now, which is where the missing symbol was from, and void hildon_gscanner_cache_open (...) is definitely within #ifdef MAEMO_CHANGES13:54
divinegodStskeeps: andre__: I've filed bug 6662. I hope it is described well enough.13:54
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6662 "Programmet 1 er installeret" is not a good translation13:54
Stskeepsersin: did you -DMAEMO_CHANGES ?13:54
ersinstskeeps: i'm explicitly calling CFLAGS="-DMAEMO_CHANGES", i even see it on my terminal screen scrolling by13:54
Stskeepsdivinegod: heh, that one made me cringe too13:54
Stskeepsersin: check out the patches from newer glib .. something rings in my head re that13:54
divinegodI'm glad i'm not alone :)13:54
ersinyes13:55
ersinit's in configure.in and then i ran autogen.sh to bring it into configure, not that that matters because i put it in the rules file for good measure13:55
ashenburgeris that danish_13:55
ashenburger?13:55
ersinstskeeps: k13:55
andre__range, actually I'm happy about that. Seems that my definition of Brainstorm was way more narrow than his one :)13:55
andre__divinegod, thanks :)13:55
kalikianaersin, maemo glib is just upstream + patches, you can check that in svn13:56
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rangeandre__: Okay, RfEs might really better be handled in brainstorm (although I am more used to a bugzilla like interface).13:57
ersinkalikiana: do you know where the svn instructions are?  i'm doing everything here by tarball13:57
Stskeepsersin: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/13:57
andre__range, depends on how complex they are. if they are easy to implement one module only issues, they should go to bugzilla13:57
ersingreat, ty stskeeps13:58
Stskeeps(you can svn checkout from those paths)13:58
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kalikianaersin, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/glib/debian/patches/13:58
rangeandre__: :) I want calendar to be enhanced. That seems to count as "Do it via brainstorm" ...13:58
andre__yeah, most probably :)13:58
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ruskieStskeeps, well a good document still... but I'm guessing replacing hal with devkit and polkit and such is one of the things that will go in13:59
Stskeepsruskie: i am still wondering about HAL and harmattan, personally13:59
ruskiewhy?14:00
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Stskeepsruskie: well, if they'll use hal or devkit there14:01
iDialektToo bad the n900 is on t mobile14:02
andre__i hope they kill HAL14:02
andre__iDialekt, ?14:02
iDialektThe Nokia n90014:03
rangeMine is on O2.14:03
andre__iDialekt, ah. very helpful :-P14:03
iDialektFor USA14:03
andre__mine is on vodafone.14:03
andre__aha. USA. now we slowly get to the point. ;-)14:03
iDialekt3g is limited to the 1700 frequency14:03
andre__iDialekt, so you cannot get an n900 without going to a provider, or what is the issue?14:04
iDialektYeah id have to switch to an inferior carrier14:05
fralsim going with the issue is US operators using weird 3g frequencies14:05
fnordiansliphmm. on my n900 in File Manager, I have 2 copies of these directories: "n900/Audio clips", "n900/Camera", "n900/Documents, "n900/Images" and "n900/Cideo Clips".  Whenever I plug the device into my Mac, and let it mount then unmoun the storage, I get another copy of all of these directories shown in File Manager.  The most I've seen has been 4 copies of each.  Looking in xterm, these directories don't seem to exist in MyDocs.  Any14:05
fnordianslipsuggestions?14:05
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iDialektI don't trust tmobile USA14:05
wjtfnordianslip sounds like a bug :)14:05
Robot101fnordianslip: I think its a known issue, and a fix is on the way14:05
iDialektfrals: Correct14:05
rangefrals: I still wonder why 3G has to be that fractured and they couldn't really decide on one standard.14:05
ruskieStskeeps, frankly I think on a device such as this either solution is overkill... as is udev :)14:05
Robot101albanc: ^^ ?14:05
fnordiansliper, "n900/Video clips", i meant14:05
rangefrals: As it looks like there are no radios which implement the complete range.14:06
andre__fnordianslip, there is a bug report about that already in bugs.maemo.org :)14:06
range*that14:06
fnordiansliptnx14:06
andre__fnordianslip, feel free to comment and provide your steps14:06
iDialektFurthermore android is kinda a big deal right now14:06
fnordianslipandre__: ok14:06
Stskeepsruskie: nah, that's embedded thinking.14:07
andre__fnordianslip, bug 583814:07
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5838 Certain directory entries are duplicated14:07
lardmanhmm, I can't create a brainstorm entry, is that normal?14:07
fnordianslipthanks. my bug search fu is stlll weak14:07
lardmanoh no, just wrong password14:07
lardmanXisdibik: ping14:08
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lardmanXisdibik: do you want to add the brainstorm entry that Quim talks of?>14:08
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Lateralusanyone have problems running apt-get update in the armel fremantle target of the vmware image?14:10
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Lateralusgzip errors?14:10
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andre__divinegod, "Programmet %d er installeret" - what is the correct string for this?14:10
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andre__or Stskeeps ^14:11
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ersinstskeeps: what exactly is the svn you gave me for?14:13
rangeIs there any possibility to see how many brainstorms are in "waiting" without clicking "next" until you reach a page which has no "next" button?14:13
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andre__range, don't think so. Brainstorm interface has been discussed in the last weeks and improvements will take place I think14:14
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* RST38h kinda doubts any of the brainstorms will end up in any useful action14:16
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lardmanRST38h: likewise, but Quim said I should remove some stuff from the bugtracker and stick it in brainstorm14:16
rangeWell, I was asked to take it out of bugs.maemo.org ... But I wonder how anyone who's not searching directly for a brainstorm like that would see it.14:16
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rangeOr find it.14:17
rangeSo one probably has to be vocal about it in bugs and on tmo.14:17
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andre__range, yes, i guess so. crosslinking everything with everything is one of the things I try to do.14:17
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RST38hlardman: Which is probably a nice way to say "we are never ever gonna do it"14:18
andre__range, i think it's helpful to make all infrastructure known to many people (negative side effect: more comments in bugzilla that should go to a forum instead)14:18
lardmanRST38h: hmm14:18
lardmanyeah14:18
lardmanwell the media player subtitles one should be easy to do14:18
divinegodandre__: I guess it is "1 program installeret" and for plural "3 programmer installeret"14:18
RST38hhttp://lj.karlson.ru/Canada/christmas.jpg14:18
RST38hlardman: but they are never ever gonna do it :)14:18
rangeandre__: Yeah. Makes more work for the reporter, though :)14:18
lardmanRST38h: you're making my morning so much better ;p14:19
andre__thanks14:19
RST38hBTW, UrQuan masters is no longer installable, wants joydev package14:19
rangeAh well, at least if you are through with the bugzilla interface once, brainstorm interface doesn't put that much fear into a person then. And you will actually begin to like bugzilla :)14:19
lardmanXisdibik: I'll add it for you14:19
RST38hlardman: with subtitles, it may be worth looking at alternative paths14:20
lardmanyeah14:20
lardmanlike a different media player that actually uses playbin14:20
RST38hlardman: like making ffmpeg into a gst module and setting it up to suck the subtitle file in automatically14:20
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andre__range, hehe. may I offer http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34878 to discuss that? :-P14:20
lardmanRST38h: yeah, is an option14:20
rangeandre__: LOL14:21
RST38hlardman: Actually, I would be very happy with an optified, hildonized mplayer or vlc14:21
RST38hlardman: I do not like the builtin media player anyway: would like to see actual files rather than tracker database entries14:21
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lardmanI'd like both, but yeah agreed14:21
divinegodandre__: should I add those translations to the bug for reference?14:22
andre__divinegod, no, it's fine. let's let the danish translation guys of nokia fuck it up again by mixing up %d and %s ;-))14:22
lardmanRST38h: trouble with ffmeg is that it will direct video away from the DSP14:23
rangeandre__: I know I commented somewhere in that thread :)14:23
divinegodandre__: okay :)14:23
RST38hlardman: Is it possible to play stuff through gstreamer AND have subtitles?14:23
andre__range, darn. :-P14:24
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rangeI have no problem with bugzilla. Things like integrated JavaScript editors freak me out, though.14:25
lardmanRST38h: yes, that's supported by gst14:25
ersinstskeeps: glib is easy to compile w/ the patches, but i'm falling into dependency hell with everything else14:26
Stskeepsersin: chose -unlocked?14:26
ersinstskeeps: does that just override all the dependencies?14:27
Stskeepsit overrides the irritating ones.14:27
lardmanargh, bloody maemo.org is so bloody slow!14:27
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ersini mean, if these are freemantle libs, then aren't i basically trying to port freemantle...?14:27
xorAxAxwhy doesnt maemo 5 ship all gst codecs that are in good?14:27
mihuHi. Anybody using Canola2 on the N900? I have a couple of albums on the internal storage, in no particual direcotry tree order. The N900 media player finds them just fine, but Canola2 does not. The "audio folders" options just says "removable cards" and "Audio clips". Does it really expect songs to be in a separate directory?14:28
ersinwell ok dpkg-tools is irritating, but what about needing up to date fontconfig and libcairo for pango?14:28
zaheermxorAxAx, like what?14:28
lardmanspace?14:28
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xorAxAx32 GB ought to be enough for everybody :)14:29
xorAxAxzaheerm: see dpkg -L gstreamer0.10-plugins-good14:29
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zaheermxorAxAx, i mean what codecs do you want?14:29
xorAxAxspeex, flac for example14:30
zaheermxorAxAx, install ogg-support14:30
xorAxAxand is wma supported?14:30
zaheermxorAxAx, yes wma is supported14:30
xorAxAxand mp4?14:30
RST38hlardman: Care to try compiling...ehhh...the ASSRENDER plugin? http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/plugins.html14:30
xorAxAx(aac)14:30
zaheermxorAxAx, yes aac and mpeg4 video is supported14:30
xorAxAxgood14:30
w00tassrender, lol.14:31
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* w00t resists the urge to make immature jokes14:31
zaheermxorAxAx, nokia legal was reason for no flac, speex, vorbis, theora i believe but it is in extras for anyone to install14:31
zaheermw00t, how is your n900 doing?14:31
w00tzaheerm: legal, no, business, yes (from what I gathered from the bug report on vorbis)14:31
derfzaheerm: There's Speex in there.14:31
zaheermderf, yah sorry, forgot about that14:31
rangew00t: I thought legal (panic of patent clowns)14:31
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RST38hlardman: there is also a bunch of other plugins for subtitles (subparse is part of gst-base and as well as subtitleoverlay)14:32
zaheermi think enough community pressure could make nokia change their minds at least for next devices....14:32
w00tzaheerm: marvellously. this morning's summary: alarm goes off at 8:00, hit snooze, wake up at 8:10, look at the weather and todo list on my desktop, check email, IM a few people, and go back to sleep until I had to rush to work. ;)14:32
RST38hzaheerm: short question; how long have you been in this community?14:32
w00tone moment, I'll find the bug14:32
lardmanRST38h: well they certainly exist14:32
zaheermw00t, great14:32
w00tbut a lot of people have been pushing for a long time14:32
RST38hlardman: But this means that at least the gst-base stuff should be compilable and work for us, right?14:33
w00thttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17614:33
derflardman: If you were wondering, a weekend was, in fact, not enough to get things running on the DSP.14:33
povbot`Bug 176: Ogg Vorbis support out of the box14:33
fnordianslipandre__: re your recent comment on  bug 5838, those dirs don't appear, at least with the same name, as hidden dirs in MyDocs/14:33
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5838 Certain directory entries are duplicated14:33
andre__fnordianslip, yes, as they have other names14:34
andre__normal14:34
lardmanderf: :)14:34
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andre__I think that's xdg-utils or whatever the name of it was14:34
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sejoall when trying to run an executable I get bash: ./hello: No such file or directory14:35
sejoalthough ls shows the file and permissions correctly14:35
fnordianslipandre__: why?14:35
andre__fnordianslip, why not?14:36
* andre__ confused14:36
fnordianslipandre__: to reduce confusion? :\)14:36
andre__sejo, what is the ls output for it?14:36
zaheermsejo, what is first line of the executable?14:36
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andre__fnordianslip, pah! :-P14:36
andre__fnordianslip, actually, no idea. design decisions, probably...14:36
fnordianslipok.  np14:36
lbt_hey GAN900 did you get rev kathy sorted with irc?14:37
sejozaheerm: like this? ^?ELF^A^A^A^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^B^@^C^@^A^@^@^@ร€~B^D^H4^@^@^@H14:37
zaheermsejo, ok no clue14:37
andre__sejo, what is the ls output for that file?14:38
derfsejo: If it's a dynamic x86 executable in an armel scratchbox, it has to go under /host_usr/14:38
sejo-rwxrwxr-x  1 1000 1005 4951 Dec  7 11:51 hello14:38
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sejoderf: should be the x86 one nor the armel14:39
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derfWell then you have some other problem.14:39
sejoderf: my scratchbox might not be correct14:40
sejoderf: used this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3307314:40
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RST38hlardman: I have checked contents of gst-bad and gst-base plugin packages on Maemo5. All subtitle stuff is missing14:43
sejohow do I check if the scratchbox is installed correctly? I can login14:44
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sejoand i set my target as cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i48614:44
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ruskiehmm anyone know how to do pining in apt? I never could figure it out... I'dl ike to pin the nokia repos above the others14:46
sejohmm didn't do a rootstrap is that needed?14:46
ruskieI think you need to do a rootstrap iirc14:47
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sejohmm going to restart everything14:50
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fnordianslipis there a keybd shortcut for delete rather than backspace in xterm on n900 ?14:53
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ruskieadd the del key to the xterm bar?14:53
fnordianslipruskie: that's an idea14:53
fnordianslipjust wondered if there's an existing shortcut14:54
Laiskadoesn't ctrl + h work? :)14:55
ruskiehmm14:55
ruskieforgot about that one14:55
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fnordianslipalmost, but no banana14:56
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fnordianslipctrl+h acts like backspace, not delete14:57
kalikianafnordianslip, ctrl+d iirc14:58
ruskiehmm14:58
Laiskafnordianslip: true, ctrl + d is the correct one I think14:58
Laiskamisread your question14:58
fnordianslipindeed.  virtual banana awarded14:58
Laiska^^14:58
kalikianaheh14:58
Dantonicdamn15:00
Dantoniceverything I install from extras still fills up the root partition some...15:00
Dantonicas in a good amount...15:01
Dantonicthought everything there was optified15:01
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* ruskie is happy he doesn't have to worry about that15:01
ruskierepartitioning ftw15:01
Dantonichave you done it?15:02
ruskieyup15:02
Dantonicwhat tools did you use?15:02
ruskieI hope there'll be an fmradio done in C... don't want all the python scary stuff15:02
Dantonicdid you do it by CLI?15:02
ruskiesfdisk15:02
Dantonicok15:02
ruskieand regular cp/mv/sed15:02
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ruskiehttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=411490&postcount=5115:02
ruskieold instructions... need to update them15:02
Dantonic:( but seriously what a crock of shit though... why do I have to do that for apps from extras?15:02
ruskieI wish it would have a better partitioning layout by default15:03
Dantonicit's pretty ridiculous if you ask me... basically it has the same problem that N8X0 had15:03
* fnordianslip got so use to having an 8GB rootfs on his N800's SD card that the problems of small flash storage seem severely restrictive15:04
ManuelSE_current maemo5 system has advantages as well15:04
Dantonic?15:05
ruskieit does?15:05
ManuelSE_we get faster speed on small root fs15:05
Dantonicruskie, thanks for that guide I've bookmarked it15:05
Dantonicah I see15:06
ManuelSE_i think15:06
Dantonicwell but why can't we actually install programs in the advertised 2GB partition?!!!15:06
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Dantonicwhy do they filll up rootfs?15:06
ManuelSE_they are broken packages15:06
ManuelSE_help fix15:06
ManuelSE_even if just telling maintainer "please fix!"15:07
fnordianslipI still have 47MB free in my rootfs and i've installed quite a lot of stuff. however, it looked like 37MB before i rebooted after getting to 3 days uptime.15:07
ManuelSE_but more help is better15:07
ManuelSE_join the community15:07
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Dantonicquestion, how close is too close to full rootfs?15:09
DantonicI mean how far can I fill it up before it becomes a problem?15:09
* loft306 triess to put the 900 down to go eat and showel but cant soooooo adictive...15:10
ruskielol15:10
ruskieI'm having this same problem mysel15:10
ruskief15:11
sejoloft306: hahah know the feeling... working and really have to do a huge effort to actually work!15:11
hrwDantonic: leave 5MB as minimum15:11
ruskiebeen at it since thursday afternoon when I bought it15:11
ruskiesejo, I'm lucky there isn't much work today15:11
ruskiehmm anyone know if ubifs supports reserved space?15:11
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ruskielike ext and others have it?15:11
* fnordianslip remembers being asked by someone using opennas why their rootfs showed as 104% full. i don't advocate going that far on the n90015:11
loft306heh sejo15:11
sejoI'm doing an audit so way too much work15:11
loft306profl 104%15:12
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loft306(r15:12
loft306gah15:12
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sejobleh this is no good: /scratchbox/compilers/cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.2.1/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lgcc15:13
fnordianslipdidn't we have problems with SSUs and almost full rootfs before on the NITs?15:13
Dantonicall right so 76% is nothing to complaing about I guess15:13
sejosomeone came across that when doing a simple hello world?15:14
fnordianslipthe opennas box with 104% full was hosed though15:14
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*** javispedro changes topic to "to: Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog"15:25
javispedro(maebar ended, so...)15:25
javispedroand, morning :)15:25
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javispedroah, first bug I'm going to file...http://share.ovi.com/media/javispedro.Pblico/javispedro.1000215:30
ruskielol15:32
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rangeCan't you just shake the device to move the dialogue sideways?15:33
javispedrono, but having to copy and paste this from Notes makes me want to shake it hard indeed.15:34
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* achipa wonders which is better - asking for permission to upload a list of installed packages (privacy) or polling package lists from the server (bandwidth+speed)...15:35
javispedropolling lists from the server containing only recent changes15:36
javispedro(like debian does...)15:36
aSIMULAtorahh great to be home15:36
javispedrooh, hi aSIMULAter!15:36
aSIMULAtorhola javispedro :)15:36
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javispedrowas the sagrada familia open? you left me wondering for the entire day :)15:36
aSIMULAtorhehe yeah it was open, got to tour the inside and see the museum15:36
aSIMULAtorhi lcuk!15:36
aSIMULAtorliterally just got home a few mins ago15:37
javispedromorning lcuk215:37
javispedroaSIMULAter: :)15:37
aSIMULAtori'm not sure what to think of sagrada familia15:37
tigerthola15:37
achipajavispedro: recent changes are not perfect as I don't know the state of the last update (i.e. you might have (un)installed something after I last updated in which case the diff will miss things)15:37
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tigertback @home sweet home15:37
aSIMULAtorhey tigert are u home yet?15:37
aSIMULAtoryyzzzzzzzz15:37
tigertyeah15:37
aSIMULAtorfor real15:37
javispedrohehe15:37
tigertyeah15:37
* Myrtti gives in and installs the SDK to make the widget herself15:37
aSIMULAtorand it's nap time too lol15:38
lcuk2hey guys, can somebody please get me a big weapon, i have to sacrifice virgin15:38
Myrttilcuk2: what is it about? the great Tux prefers herring to virgins15:38
javispedroachipa: I mean, diff changes on the entire packages list15:38
tigert)---[==========>15:38
rangelcuk2: So you have virgins at hand but no weapons? Strange.15:38
tigertbig enough?15:39
* lcuk2 waves heartily @ tired aSIMULAtor15:39
* ruskie wonders what widget is Myrtti making15:39
javispedroalso, you can throw old gadgets to them15:39
lcuk2hows the chocolate? :D15:39
aSIMULAtorhaha it was mentholish :)15:39
Myrttiruskie: http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-g/mechanical-counter-378810.jpg15:39
lcuk2Myrtti, my net has been up and down half the afternoon15:39
* tigert looks at new gpodder15:39
javispedrohope you all had a nice trip15:39
* fnordianslip offers his pork sword for use in virgin sacrifice15:39
tigertcool, progress showing15:39
Myrttifeel free to do it for me, I know next to nothing about programming, if it's not bash scripting15:39
aSIMULAtoryes javispedro it was nice15:40
tigertnot all is in yet, but we had really good time with thp15:40
aSIMULAtorneed to go back to barcelona again15:40
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ruskieMyrtti, nice15:40
Myrttiten points and a parrot starburst stamp for the one who guesses correctly what I need it for15:41
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Myrttithough, I did tell about it yesterday15:41
KMFDMaSIMULAter, how was it besides the chocolates?15:41
sejohmm the ARMEL target fails :/15:41
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aSIMULAtorit was pretty good, had some progress with a couple of apps15:41
aSIMULAtoror do u mean the trip, the trip was nice...i gained like i dunno 10902930kg15:42
aSIMULAtorate so much15:42
aSIMULAtorfood is great15:42
sejothe x86 target does work however15:42
lcuk2aSIMULAtor, did they have to sit you in the middle of hte plane to balance it out :D15:42
KMFDMaSIMULAter, I meant both :)15:42
KMFDMaSIMULAter, superior to the weird lunch thing they had at the summit, heh15:43
sejoare there dependencies needed to get the ARMEL working?15:43
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aSIMULAtorlol15:43
lcuk2i am gonna do a writeup of everything later, ive got stuffs to do atm15:43
aSIMULAtorwell, yeah the summit had shit food, this place only fed us on friday15:43
aSIMULAtorand it was like cheesy poofs and sandwiches as well15:43
aSIMULAtorbut i dig spanish food15:44
Shapeshifterthe hardware designers really had no clue when they decided to drop two arrow keys for umlauts on the german/swiss keyboard.15:44
ruskiemaybe someone told them that geeks were coming15:44
Shapeshiftera single ยจ key would have sufficed.15:44
* ruskie is happy he has a qwerty kb15:45
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* lcuk2 w00ts for kangaroo15:45
ShapeshifterI wonder if there will ever be aftermarket keyboards or replacements from nokia.15:45
ruskiethe seller even notified me taht it didn't have any local localisation and no MMS15:45
* lcuk2 has been bouncing aorund ever since15:45
Shapeshifterthough I bet the nokia replacement parts would be extremely expensive15:45
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aSIMULAtorjavispedro: i have some photos of sagrada familia on my flickr but u probably know what it looks like already :P and i think there's a photo of you too15:46
ruskieI'd pay 10 eur for a replacement kb and 10 eur for their service to replace it15:46
javispedroaSIMULAter: yeah, of me opening my loaned device :)15:46
ruskieanything above that I'd consider to expensive15:46
aSIMULAtorit was when we were working on liqcalendar15:46
sejoi hope there will be a dvorak layout one day!15:46
sejosick of the other broken designs15:46
ruskieactually for thumb typing I find qwerty quite good15:47
lardmanlcuk2: what's kangaroo?15:47
ruskiethough I am one of the few wanting a dvorak layout15:47
fluxthere shuold be a bag of keycaps and a grid you could put them on!15:47
ruskieflux, naturally15:47
ruskielike the ibm model M ;015:47
lcuk2lardman, skippy15:47
Shapeshifterflux: yeah15:47
ruskie;)15:47
Shapeshifterscrabble keyboard15:47
sejoheh15:47
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fluxand, for the leet of us, a blank keycaps enough to have a blank keyboard.15:48
ruskiehmm btw anyone know if the wirring for the fm antenna needs to be anything special? I'd just like to plug in a basic 3.5mm jack with no wires15:48
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ruskieor atleast very short wires15:49
X-Faderuskie: No, no special wiring, you just need a wire that sort of matches the wave length.15:49
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javispedrothe event was pretty good indeed -- a lot of locals learned a lot of things and made their first contacts with sbox (sometimes you really need help with it), and of course talking with the ux people and designers was also very nice :)15:50
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lardmanX-Fade: !15:50
lardmanX-Fade: Welcome back, how was the holiday?15:50
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X-Fadelardman: Hi. Great!15:50
aSIMULAtormust say it was also nice to meet the developers15:50
lardmancool :)15:50
X-Fadelardman: Although almost forgotten when looking at the TODO :)15:50
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aSIMULAtori hope that us ux designers can work in closer collaboration with the community :)15:51
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lcuk2i hope finnish ux designers can work closer as well :p15:52
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aSIMULAtorif i have time this evening i'll finish up some of the mockups for liqflow for u luck15:52
aSIMULAtorc before u15:52
* lcuk2 nods heartily15:52
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lcuk2ive gotta do some other things as well and see what else can be done15:53
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aSIMULAtorcool15:53
aSIMULAtorbut now, naptime! bbl :D15:53
javispedro:)15:53
lcuk2javis how is your device doing15:53
javispedrovery good for now15:53
javispedroI am already filing bugs :)15:53
javispedrobug #666515:54
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6665 "manual IP address" textbox in advanced connection settings is partially hidden15:54
javispedrowow, next one to file gets bug number #6666 !15:54
Stskeepsmeh, 6667 is cooler15:55
Stskeeps:P15:55
sejolol15:55
javispedrohiya Stskeeps!15:55
javispedroso, I have a device now :)15:55
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Stskeepsjavispedro: cool :)15:55
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lcuk2Stskeeps, he was like a little kid15:57
javispedrothere's even a picture :)15:57
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mgedminbug #6667: please add an IRC client to the standard apps?15:57
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6667 was not found.15:57
mgedminit's still free!15:57
javispedrobug #666615:57
povbot`Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6666 was not found.15:57
javispedrothat one too :)15:57
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javispedroso you'll have to find and file two bugs :)15:58
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mgedminbug #6666 can be "don't be evil"15:58
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PaulFertsermgedmin++ will be close with "wontfix" since we're a commercial company15:58
PaulFertserclosed :)15:58
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mgedminlike, e.g. Google ;)15:58
zaheermjavispedro, you won one in the raffle?16:00
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javispedrozaheerm: nope, this is a short term loan so far16:00
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VDVsxhey aSIMULAter, lcuk2, javispedro, zaheerm, tigert et all :)16:01
VDVsx*al16:01
javispedromorning VDVsx16:01
mikhashi, too16:01
zaheermVDVsx, hiya16:02
VDVsxhey mikhas16:02
javispedroah... I'm already forgetting about the faces. :)16:02
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Myrttiblonde tuning her laptop: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/4166303372/16:13
Stskeepsheh16:14
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Myrtti(yes, I've got memory span the size of an ant)16:14
jaskaheh16:14
javispedroit's better than my current solution with stickers16:14
jaskawell, its easier than looking at the symbols on the side so :)16:14
javispedroor even tape :)16:15
Myrttijavispedro: it's a piece of paper, stuck on with tape...16:15
Myrtticoloured with gel pens16:15
jaskaif i need to plug anything into laptops 2.5mm jacks i need to twist my head to look on the side16:15
javispedroMyrtti: ah, so then it's like what my computer has on its back, only with color :)16:15
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lopzhola :P16:17
Sir_LancelotI want a Meamo that would sync 100% with Outlook16:17
Sir_Lancelot:D16:17
mikhasbesides the airport everything was great @ maebar. but then I found this @ BCN airport: http://taschenorakel.de/pictures/maebar/2009/12/07/gates-at-terminal2_bcn.jpg (yep, they start counting @ zero, isn't that great?)16:18
* nomis hands the Grail to Sir_Lancelot. Easier. :)16:18
Sir_Lancelot:D16:19
zaheermmikhas, what was wrong with the airport?16:19
mikhasterminal216:19
Sir_Lancelotdoes PC Suite sync everything with Outlook ?