IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-12-06

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crashanddie_mbp	yo	00:02
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javispedro	another mbp? :)	00:05
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mece	hello	00:08
mece	what's an mbp?	00:08
naxxatoe	macbook pro	00:08
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mece	oic	00:08
crashanddie_mbp	heh javispedro yeah, couldn't resist the bargain	00:08
javispedro	:)	00:08
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mece	is butterfly or haze more easy on the battery?	00:09
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mece	oh haze isn't even in testing yet. bummer.	00:09
mece	I'll just go with butterfly for now then.	00:10
woglinde	args	00:10
woglinde	no glu	00:10
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javispedro	no glu, no glut	00:10
javispedro	no glx	00:10
javispedro	....	00:10
woglinde	hm why no glu?	00:11
javispedro	IMHO it's easier to port things from the iphone than from desktop linux using desktop opengl	00:11
javispedro	there's some third party glu around here	00:11
mece	teehee	00:11
javispedro	btw you'd never know how many times nokians tend to pronounce "iphone"	00:12
javispedro	actually, I kinda remember the marketing vicepresident saying the word "iphoneish"	00:12
mece	isn't that in the dictionary?	00:12
javispedro	(only for someone to ask on a later talk "why do designers always choose to copy apple?" which I though was a pretty direct to the point but maybe-offensive question)	00:13
Stskeeps	heh, a lot of designs are copied from nokia tablets too	00:14
Stskeeps	just see many of the new devices coming out	00:14
javispedro	have to agree with that one	00:15
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jebba	maemo-optify-buildpackage didn't get included in the .deb of maemo-optify	00:15
javispedro	I was walking the other day and found quite a large ad -- which I initially believed to be about the n810	00:15
javispedro	of course, it was a moto droid ad	00:15
javispedro	an ad that most guys in maebar probably had to walk over	00:16
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Stskeeps	for some reason i'm thinking about those monolith things with commercials in them and a photo of maemoians around it, 2001 space odessy style..\	00:17
woglinde	hm maybee I can recompile freeglut	00:17
Stskeeps	with a n900 commercial, obviously	00:17
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jebba	woglinde: good luck. I was poking at that last night.	00:18
woglinde	jebba oh	00:18
woglinde	double work again	00:18
javispedro	glut is not that complex	00:18
jebba	ya, but i bailed on it, so go for it ;)	00:18
* luke-jr ponders a smarter VCS		00:18
jebba	javispedro: have you built it for maemo?	00:18
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javispedro	why port it and not rewrite?	00:18
luke-jr	Stskeeps: what would you think of a VCS that dissected source code?	00:18
woglinde	jebba but I wonder how it got into extras	00:18
jebba	granted, i was learning .deb packaging at the same time, but it wanted some stuff not in xorg built iirc	00:19
woglinde	hm maybee per dput	00:19
Stskeeps	luke-jr: parsing code isn't always trivial	00:19
javispedro	because there's no glx	00:19
luke-jr	Stskeeps: not always ;)	00:19
luke-jr	Stskeeps: but in theory	00:19
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luke-jr	if it cut it up into ASTs and diffed those	00:19
jebba	javispedro: ya, that iirc :)	00:19
luke-jr	while preserving formatting info	00:19
Stskeeps	luke-jr: the main issue is comments	00:19
javispedro	jebba: with no glx and with the reduced number of functions the average glut app uses, you can more easily create your own reimplementation of it	00:19
Stskeeps	luke-jr: idea isn't bad but gain > effort? not sure	00:19
luke-jr	Stskeeps: comments are part of formatting info in this case	00:20
luke-jr	Stskeeps: well, it could resolve symbols too	00:20
luke-jr	so a diff would become "renamed symbol foo to oldfoo"	00:20
Stskeeps	then it would have to know about build system	00:20
ali1234	sure, you can reimplement glut. but first you have to reimplement glu	00:20
ali1234	and let me tell you, that isn't fun	00:20
luke-jr	Stskeeps: not necessarily, just the language	00:20
Stskeeps	luke-jr: considering how "cheap" storage is these days, it might not be worth the processing time	00:20
luke-jr	in most cases	00:20
javispedro	ali1234: from the subset of the "Most commonly used GLUT functions" that I'm thinking about none uses GLU	00:21
luke-jr	the point isn't to save on storage	00:21
luke-jr	the point is merging ;)	00:21
javispedro	and GLU (the I'm-doing-the-maths-for-you-part) should be easy to port to GL 1.1	00:21
ali1234	hell, you don't even get half of GL	00:22
javispedro	the other parts...	00:22
jebba	javispedro: i can't more easily create my own reimplementation. I was just trying to rebuild a .deb.	00:22
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javispedro	jebba: forget about porting GLUT unless it has an EGL backend	00:22
Stskeeps	luke-jr: OK, total effort and processing time than one human merging a patch manually when a automatic one fails?	00:22
Stskeeps	+more	00:23
ali1234	nobody uses GLUT these days anyway	00:23
javispedro	you'll end up with such a large patchset that you'll get into maintainance hell	00:23
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javispedro	(even though, is GLUT updated these days? =)	00:23
ali1234	nope, not for a few years now i think	00:23
luke-jr	Stskeeps: you're assuming the merge is done by a developer	00:24
luke-jr	Stskeeps: I'm assuming a wide variety of heads merged by the end user	00:24
Stskeeps	luke-jr: that said, it could be an interesting measure of code contributions	00:25
SpeedEvil	hmm	00:25
* SpeedEvil wonders if he's confused.		00:26
woglinde	javis hm	00:26
SpeedEvil	modest says wrong username or password	00:26
SpeedEvil	from pop3	00:26
SpeedEvil	according to tcpdump, it's simply saying 'CAPA' - then QUIT	00:26
javispedro	luke-jr: your idea rings a bell for a reason..	00:27
javispedro	s/a/some	00:27
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luke-jr	javispedro: ?	00:27
luke-jr	javispedro: is that what darcs does?	00:27
luke-jr	I never understood darcs completely XD	00:27
javispedro	luke-jr: I think darcs doesn't do that. Though I remember reading about an "AST" version control system.	00:28
luke-jr	hm	00:28
javispedro	google gets a few hits	00:29
javispedro	http://tjaard.nl/2005/05/21/smart-version-controlling-why-diff-is-just-not-enough/	00:29
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woglinde	hms okay	00:30
woglinde	freeglut needs glu	00:30
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jebba	and the pain begins...	00:31
woglinde	g	00:31
Ashenburg	is there a conpletion key in maemo? like tab in i.e ubuntu?	00:31
Ashenburg	lol nm!	00:31
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javispedro	woglinde: what for?	00:32
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javispedro	other than just stupidly depending on it...	00:33
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, that sounds vaguely similar to when I tried to use modest on N810. tcpdump revealed similar "wtf?" as you, and modest itself said something stupid and wrong	00:33
javispedro	either way, as I said, dependency on GLU is not your problem. dependency on GLX _is_	00:33
javispedro	GLUT\|ES is a port of the OpenSource freeglut implementation for WinCE and Win32 systems ...	00:34
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woglinde	javis yes	00:35
xorAxAx	does the n900 have a net monitor?	00:35
woglinde	javis where did you found it?	00:36
xorAxAx	i.e. infos about reachable cells with their signal strength	00:36
ShadowJK	xorAxAx, we haven't seen any	00:36
javispedro	damn google and their new fangled long urls in the results page	00:36
jebba	so can you just blow out that Dependency: glu line and continue on ok?	00:36
javispedro	woglinde: http://glutes.sourceforge.net/	00:36
LinuxCode	javispedro, +1	00:37
woglinde	hm sounds cool	00:37
woglinde	lets see	00:37
LinuxCode	one reason to switch search engines	00:37
ShadowJK	In photos, some pre-production units seemed to have Nokia Energy Profiler, and if it's the same as on Symbian, it'd log signal strength for the current cell, and 3G timers (which are relevant and important for power saving stuff)	00:37
xorAxAx	ShadowJK: is there any way to get that info from the chip?	00:37
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ShadowJK	afaik there are no standard AT commands to retrieve that info	00:37
ShadowJK	you might be able to get cell id and signal strength for the currently used cell though	00:37
ShadowJK	though I don't know how :)	00:38
javispedro	woglinde: depending on what they have done you may get away by just grabbing the glut\|es and creating the required #ifdefs around the win32 calls :)	00:38
woglinde	yes	00:38
woglinde	I will look at it	00:38
woglinde	4 years old	00:38
woglinde	maybee still a lot work to do	00:38
javispedro	less maintainance work :)	00:38
asidjazz	sup fellas	00:40
jebba	hey	00:40
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KMFDM	ach	00:41
KMFDM	my mobile internet provider	00:41
KMFDM	has blocked nearly every port on their mobile internet	00:41
KMFDM	in order to 'enforce the FUP forbidden use of voip'	00:41
* javispedro curses		00:41
javispedro	ouch	00:41
KMFDM	forbidding*	00:42
javispedro	the SDK tools repo has GNU make 3.80 while the sbox devkits have GNU make 3.81	00:42
KMFDM	and i bought it a month ago before they were doing this	00:42
KMFDM	so im stuck with them for a year	00:42
KMFDM	b/c they didn't change their contract terms	00:42
luke-jr	KMFDM: screwed up country you're in	00:42
KMFDM	luke-jr, well i think multiple countries are affected	00:42
KMFDM	it is vodafone	00:42
luke-jr	your contract doesn't guarantee you internet access?	00:43
luke-jr	blocking ports is no longer access	00:43
woglinde	javis hm only visualstudio setup	00:43
javispedro	no Makefiles? so I guess they removed the unix stuff from freeglut	00:43
woglinde	jupp	00:43
KMFDM	luke-jr, im guaranteed internet access besides VoIP, but they are claiming they aren't blocking ports	00:43
woglinde	but I am good at autotools	00:44
woglinde	should be easy to recover	00:44
KMFDM	i haven't tried calling support myself yet	00:44
KMFDM	i'm going to try to terminate my contract if they don't fix it	00:44
luke-jr	good idea	00:44
KMFDM	I'm calling on monday, but I was researching to see if other people had the same issue	00:44
KMFDM	and discovered what was going on	00:44
javispedro	woglinde: that, or "merge" both freegluts :)	00:44
luke-jr	and once you get past this, use SSL VoIP to spite them	00:44
woglinde	javis na	00:45
KMFDM	luke-jr, yeah i'm pretty sure google talk's voip still works fine	00:45
woglinde	writing from sratch is easy	00:45
luke-jr	KMFDM: in the meantime, don't use VoIP, so you're clear if it goes to court	00:45
KMFDM	luke-jr, i haven't	00:45
javispedro	woglinde: good luck	00:45
KMFDM	it is ridiculous. i can't get on msn, aim or IRC unless i tunnel through ssl or make an ssh tunnel	00:46
Stskeeps	complain?	00:46
KMFDM	Stskeeps, going to monday	00:46
woglinde	javis jupp	00:47
javispedro	:) well, gnite	00:47
type_t	what Voip carrier is that?	00:47
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KMFDM	type_t, it isnt' a voip carrier	00:50
KMFDM	my mobile provider in an attempt to block voip apps	00:51
KMFDM	have apparently also blocked all 'chat applications' because they 'compete' with their 'sms service'	00:51
Stskeeps	heh	00:51
type_t	can you use this proxy ti.tftp.vonage.net ? is there a way to find out?	00:51
ShadowJK	my mobile operator sent sip settings for their own voip service to my e75..	00:52
Stskeeps	KMFDM: i would take my money somewhere else at that point	00:52
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KMFDM	Stskeeps, already planning to	00:53
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KMFDM	i just have to get them to let me out of my year contract	00:53
Stskeeps	KMFDM: you can probably claim the service changed in such a way that it no longer matches what you went into	00:53
Stskeeps	:P	00:53
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KMFDM	if they did indeed block chat apps intentionally they have stopped fulfilling the original contract	00:53
KMFDM	aye	00:53
type_t	KMFDM .we are all behind you ;p	00:54
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woglinde	hm	00:56
woglinde	need to find out if it is gles v1 or v2	00:56
LinuxCode	KMFDM, change providers, and tell them to shuv their service where the sun does not shine	00:57
woglinde	hm ah its gles v1	00:57
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LinuxCode	or complain to trading standards, if your country has something like it	00:58
KMFDM	LinuxCode, this ist he best part	00:58
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KMFDM	"according to the terms of service is the use of voip, SMSoIP and tethering not permitted. "	00:59
KMFDM	wtf is smsoIP	00:59
LinuxCode	quite frankly that is uncompetitive behaviour	00:59
KMFDM	well first of all that is nowhere in their contract	00:59
Stskeeps	sending text messages over the internet	00:59
KMFDM	LinuxCode, they have a 3x as expensive service that allows voIP	00:59
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KMFDM	but now they are trying to force everyone on to it by blocking chat services on everything else	01:00
KMFDM	even though that is NOT in their contract	01:00
SpeedEvil	Check the definition of 'voip'	01:00
SpeedEvil	it may include chat	01:00
LinuxCode	KMFDM, contact a voip provider	01:00
LinuxCode	and say this compnay is stiffling competition	01:00
LinuxCode	that is what happened to many companies before	01:00
LinuxCode	they got done for uncompetitive practices	01:01
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KMFDM	LinuxCode, the company is already being investigated by our government and the EU commission, but by also offering a service not blocking them they have basically made it impossible to take action against them	01:01
LinuxCode	there you go ;-D	01:01
LinuxCode	dont count on it	01:01
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LinuxCode	KMFDM, is this a provider starting with V, or O, or T ?	01:02
LinuxCode	hehe	01:02
KMFDM	Vodafone heh	01:02
LinuxCode	interesting	01:02
KMFDM	to top it off they implemented the port blocking during a network outage that lasted at least 2 days and for some users longer	01:03
AakashPatel	is there already a google voice app for maemo?	01:03
AakashPatel	maemo 5*	01:03
KMFDM	AakashPatel, it is built into telepathy-haze i believe	01:03
AakashPatel	Google Voice?	01:03
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AakashPatel	I dont believe that's possible, the API's are still closed.	01:04
jebba	AakashPatel: you can call people via google. google talk i think it is though.	01:04
AakashPatel	Ah	01:04
AakashPatel	Well, I'm workin on a Google Voice app for maemo :)	01:04
AakashPatel	For all you poeple out there with an account	01:04
LinuxCode	KMFDM, that means, you did not sign up for that	01:04
jebba	dunno what the difference is	01:04
LinuxCode	and they changed Terms of Service	01:04
AakashPatel	jeanjean, google.com/voice	01:05
LinuxCode	means you have a right to cancel	01:05
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LinuxCode	or to object	01:05
jebba	but i can make a google talk voice call to another google talk user fine	01:05
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LinuxCode	if you object they will be in trouble haha	01:05
LinuxCode	then they have to accomodate you	01:05
KMFDM	LinuxCode, exactly	01:05
LinuxCode	so write a letter and object, and if they havent even informed you, contact trading standards	01:06
LinuxCode	<3 Europe	01:06
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woglinde	wahahah	01:10
woglinde	/usr/include/GLES/egl.h:1:21: error: EGL/egl.h: No such file or directory	01:10
woglinde	nice	01:10
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user__	so i just got back fron tmobile and got ma plan and a sim and i git the techi and he knew to ask if it was a smartphone so i didnt have to give them my IMEI	01:15
user__	to get the data to work	01:16
user__	oops	01:16
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wazd_5130	Hehe	01:17
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woglinde	hm lets see how clutter handle this	01:17
woglinde	hi wazd	01:17
wazd_5130	Java irc client )	01:17
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wazd_5130	Weird but acceptable as backup	01:19
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woglinde	wazd didnt try java yet for fremantle	01:20
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wazd_5130	That's not maemo, it's s40)	01:21
woglinde	bah	01:21
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wazd_5130	At least it works)	01:22
woglinde	hm intressting clutter fails	01:23
wazd_5130	K, gtg sleep, later )	01:23
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woglinde	wonder how they build clutter for fremantle	01:24
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zemm	timeless_mbp: when you said that symlinking something from /usr causes problems when flashing the device (?), can those be solved by flashing both the root and eMMC, since i noticed those are separate processes?	01:25
zemm	according to wiki	01:25
woglinde	whahaha	01:26
woglinde	libEGL is in place	01:26
woglinde	but not the headers	01:26
woglinde	this suckz	01:26
timeless_mbp	zemm: you mean by eating your user data?	01:27
timeless_mbp	well um	01:27
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timeless_mbp	do you not care about user data?	01:27
zemm	well, backups, backups ;)	01:27
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zemm	i'm more willing to take daily backups than seeing the 100% full /	01:28
yuizy	can i use the maemo5 sdk also in building for n810?	01:28
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DM_900	damg wating e batterymeter move now that im on gsm	01:31
DM_900	*watching	01:31
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woglinde	hms	01:38
woglinde	seems I have to download newer sdk myself	01:39
woglinde	let me find my imgtrc account	01:39
woglinde	imgtec	01:39
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DocScrutinizer51	heh, woglinde :-)	01:41
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woglinde	jo doc	01:41
DocScrutinizer51	qwelcome on "the dark side" ;-P	01:42
woglinde	nokia should fix this	01:43
woglinde	with newer sgx sdk	01:43
woglinde	why the heck they ship this version	01:43
DocScrutinizer51	woglinde, got a NIT now?	01:44
ali1234	woglinde, install the -dev packages	01:44
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woglinde	ali1234 thats not the problem	01:44
woglinde	nokia shiped the sgx-sdk where the EGL headers wasnt installed	01:45
woglinde	imgtec fixed it in laterversions	01:45
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ali1234	how did i manage to compile things then?	01:45
ali1234	with "#include <EGL/egl.h>"	01:45
woglinde	ali maybee I have the wrong version	01:46
ali1234	are you using the x86 version?	01:46
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woglinde	I did deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/xxxxx nokia-binaries	01:46
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woglinde	and get version	01:46
woglinde	0.20090218.51+0m5	01:47
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ali1234	of what package?	01:47
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woglinde	opengles-sgx-img-common	01:47
ali1234	not opengles-sgx-img-common-dev ?	01:47
KenYoung	Does anyone know how I can put an N900 into portrait mode from a C program?	01:47
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woglinde	args	01:48
woglinde	thanks	01:48
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woglinde	its to late	01:48
woglinde	hm ah I realize the problem now	01:49
woglinde	wrong dep of libgles1-sgx-img-dev	01:49
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woglinde	it has no dep on opengles-sgx-img-common-dev which it should have	01:49
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sejo	someone knows how to install codecs for videa/music on the maemo?	01:52
sejo	(n900)	01:52
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DocScrutinizer51	sejo, enable maemo extras repository in progman, search for gstreamer packages	01:55
sejo	DocScrutinizer: thx trying	01:56
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djkrikke	DocScrutinizer, you got a n900?	02:00
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nonversation	does the N900 run google maps	02:01
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SpeedEvil	no	02:02
SpeedEvil	In that you can use the website, but not the app	02:02
nonversation	what about the ovi maps/navigation? does it have free turn by turn?	02:02
Gadgetoid	got my n900 playing video to the output and running irc simultaneously.... frikkin awesome	02:02
djkrikke	nice one Gadgetoid	02:03
djkrikke	I'm willing to talk to someone with a n900 about the user experiences, do you have some time Gadgetoid?	02:03
woglinde	Gadgetoid video is dsp	02:04
woglinde	so there should be enough cpu-power for irc	02:04
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Gadgetoid	so are transitions so switching apps chugs the vid	02:04
SpeedEvil	nonversation: no turn by turn	02:04
nonversation	ouch	02:05
SpeedEvil	Or there is turn by turn - but no voice	02:05
nonversation	then what is ovi maps for?	02:05
SpeedEvil	it will route you to a destination	02:05
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fnordianslippers	avoiding	02:05
Gadgetoid	what do you want to know djkrikke?	02:05
nonversation	it will provide directions ?	02:05
nonversation	but with no voice	02:05
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nonversation	what about other gps programs	02:06
nonversation	anything out as of yet or in the works for the N900 that would do this?	02:06
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simula_	wow, xchat looks really nice on the n900	02:06
SpeedEvil	nonversation: not really as I understand it.	02:07
crashanddie_mbp	nonversation: I didn't get ovi maps to work	02:07
djkrikke	well, I've been reading about the n900, and my impression is that this device needs as much "maintenance" as a linux desktop computer would need. I'm coming from an iphone 3GS and like tweaking etc, but I'm wondering if the device is really usable without lots of extra tools/tweaks (for example video). How bad is it?	02:07
Gadgetoid	aye super smooth xchat, needs kinetic scrolling though	02:07
crashanddie_mbp	nonversation: it found where I was, it found my location, but then didn't tell me where to go or what to do	02:07
SpeedEvil	djkrikke: what do you mean 'maintainance'	02:08
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crashanddie_mbp	nonversation: neither on screen nor by voice -- pretty useless imho	02:08
SpeedEvil	djkrikke: If you mean the add-ons - at the moment - most of the non-nokia software is alpha.	02:08
nonversation	=/ im also reading that the N900 has 32gb but only 2gb can be used for apps?	02:08
SpeedEvil	djkrikke: It will get better.	02:08
djkrikke	I was reading about watching movies on the n900 from websites, there were literally lots of addons and scripts necessary	02:08
sejo	hmm looking for some cool apps to add, mhat are your favorite apps on the n900?	02:08
crashanddie_mbp	djkrikke: no maintenance. Turn it on, browse, call, it works.	02:08
Gadgetoid	djkrikke i can download videos from bittorent on the n900 using transmission	02:08
SpeedEvil	But as it is basically,it works.	02:09
crashanddie_mbp	djkrikke: if there are software updates, it'll tell you, and ask if you want to update. That's about as much maintenance as there is to it	02:09
Gadgetoid	and then play them with the native player	02:09
nonversation	do all debian apps work for it? or do they have to be ported?	02:09
simula_	scripts? selecting an app from a software repository is more like it.	02:09
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nonversation	google earth?	02:09
Gadgetoid	no scripts	02:09
djkrikke	yes, does transmission just work without debian chroot etc?	02:09
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crashanddie_mbp	djkrikke: yes	02:09
ShadowJK	djkrikke, well, the difference is that whereas the iphone doesn't let you expand it to play formats it doesn't play out of the box, the N900 is expandable. The addons you see are people who want to play more formats.	02:10
Gadgetoid	to play video to video out whilst using irc i just did mplayer -framedrop (filename)	02:10
crashanddie_mbp	djkrikke: this is a non-limited platform really, you don't need to "hack" or "break" it in order to do more stuff	02:10
woglinde	hm where is luck when I need him	02:10
crashanddie_mbp	woglinde: sleeping, probably	02:10
nonversation	will it run google earth?	02:10
crashanddie_mbp	nonversation: no	02:10
nonversation	why?	02:10
ShadowJK	Out of the box it handles avi, wmv and mp4 containers with ASP (divx, xvid) and h264 baseline codecs, aac and mp3 audio and some others I forget..	02:10
crashanddie_mbp	nonversation: but that's because Google didn't port it to the ARM platform	02:11
SpeedEvil	nonversation: It is not a PC.	02:11
djkrikke	I know, but for some programs chroot is still necessary. And if your pointing at the jailbreaking of the iphone, that's indeed what I'm trying to avoid :P	02:11
nonversation	ok so it runs debian and the only apps it can use have been ported for ARM	02:11
crashanddie_mbp	djkrikke: no, chroot is not necessary	02:11
SpeedEvil	nonversation: It will run no PC software that is supplied only in binary form, that the maker has not released a version for ARM.	02:11
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crashanddie_mbp	nonversation: it's not really debian -- it's based off debian, but that's like saying that ubuntu is debian	02:11
nonversation	how well does it work as a phone?	02:12
ShadowJK	mind, my PC doesn't need any maintenance either..	02:12
* SpeedEvil has had it for a week, and has made one call, and one text. Worked fine.		02:12
djkrikke	what are the limitations of the base in terms of installing other applications, like for example a kde application (amarok)?	02:12
Gadgetoid	haha chroot? i dont think that means what you think it does	02:12
nonversation	I currently have an android phone, but looking at the N900 trying to decide if its worth it for me or not	02:12
crashanddie_mbp	you can place calls, through SIM or Skype (over wifi or 3G), send texts, receive texts and see them in conversations -- works	02:12
nonversation	so its fine to carry in your pocket as a normal phone	02:13
Gadgetoid	djkrikke most apps need refactored to use the n900 gui	02:13
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djkrikke	I see	02:13
crashanddie_mbp	djkrikke: in the past there have been full ports of very heavy applications (like thunderbird or KDE) -- the problem is that GUIs don't scale well, so they were barely usable	02:13
SpeedEvil	nonversation: Personally, I'd recommend it to anyone.	02:13
djkrikke	I understand	02:14
nonversation	what about root?	02:14
Gadgetoid	although there may be another desktop linux port to the n900	02:14
nonversation	do you have root access?	02:14
crashanddie_mbp	nonversation: yes	02:14
KenYoung	nonversation, Yup	02:14
SpeedEvil	The software problem gets a lot easier if you say 'you can't use fingers, stylus only'	02:14
crashanddie_mbp	djeezus, is this noobzone? Guys, just google your questions	02:14
SpeedEvil	Then it's more or less just a small desktop	02:14
Gadgetoid	i could kina use open office on my n810	02:14
nonversation	speaking of stylus , do you really have to use that on the N900?	02:14
ShadowJK	my eyes need more training with the 3.5" screen. On the N810 I more or less was able to see pixels. The DPI is so much higher on the N900 though :-)	02:14
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djkrikke	lol ShadowJK	02:14
ShadowJK	well not "so much", but a bit..	02:15
nonversation	how sensitive to touch is it compared to an android device or iphone	02:15
djkrikke	nonversation, it's resistive	02:15
KenYoung	nonversation, The stylus is very helpful in many situations.	02:15
ShadowJK	I don't use stylus on N900	02:15
nonversation	thats good, i hate a stylus	02:15
Gadgetoid	text in xchat is stupidly smooth	02:15
ShadowJK	and I was a die-hard stylus fan..	02:15
djkrikke	basically that means you have to "press" instead of touching it like on the iphone	02:15
KenYoung	I use the stylus a lot with the browser, to make sure I click the correct linkgs.	02:15
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ShadowJK	I just doubletap to zoom, it responds quickly enough	02:16
djkrikke	but from what I've heard and seen, the resistive screen works quite good	02:16
nonversation	does it run opera mobile? or opera?	02:16
sejo	DocScrutinizer: hmm got the extras but no gstreamer?	02:16
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ShadowJK	nonversation, no.	02:16
djkrikke	nonversation, it runs firefox	02:16
Gadgetoid	the n900 responds well to very light touch	02:16
nonversation	webkit	02:16
djkrikke	firefox mobile iirc	02:16
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ShadowJK	firefox mobile is an alternative. The default browser microb is based on the same technology as firefox, gecko.	02:17
nonversation	what about social apps, twitter, facebook , myspace, and the like	02:17
nonversation	can you run those in the background	02:17
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Gadgetoid	the screen is flush like the iphone and doesnt give like an oldschool pda	02:17
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nonversation	my previous expierences with nokia havent been so well when it comes to software support, sort of afraid to make the jump again	02:18
nonversation	like the E71	02:18
nonversation	and N95	02:18
KenYoung	Does anyone know how to get the N900 into portrait mode, other than with the dialer app? I'd like to have an application run in portrait mode, and I'd be happy to modify the source code to do so.	02:19
Gadgetoid	i am still waiting for my three sim to work in the n900	02:19
nonversation	shouldn't any sim work in it?	02:19
nonversation	as long as you have the settings?	02:19
LinuxCode	Gadgetoid, needs activating ?	02:19
Gadgetoid	yes... unless its a particular three sim	02:20
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Gadgetoid	in which case there is a known bug	02:20
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nonversation	Does the N900 have a twitter app? facebook app? myspace app?	02:20
Gadgetoid	fixed but no firmware update containing it yet	02:20
ShadowJK	Basically, sim cards are smartcards. The smartcards contain applications. The "sim" application is supported, but the new application used by 3g-only cards aren't. The "sim" application can support both gsm and 3g. At the time nobody was using the new 3g only app and nokia probably didn't think anyone would. Then it turned out otherwise.. wikipedia has the messy details on sim cards :)	02:20
Gadgetoid	it has widgets but the browser suffices for actually using facebook	02:21
Gadgetoid	apps are always a compromise	02:21
Gadgetoid	the n900 will run farmville kinda	02:21
djkrikke	that's cool	02:22
djkrikke	finally something with good web browsing and flash support	02:22
Gadgetoid	wish it would run quakelive and had dual analogue	02:22
sejo	there is witter (for twitter) but doesn't wark here	02:22
nonversation	so you have on screen widgets for twitter	02:22
sejo	it's cool to kave default video out	02:22
sejo	nonversation: yeah there is a widget also	02:23
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sejo	but keeps on browsing	02:23
nonversation	facebook widgets as well? like the N97?	02:23
sejo	yes	02:23
nonversation	well that sounds good, looks like it covers most of what I use on android, except the navigation	02:24
Gadgetoid	i left my n900 downloading about 300mb from bittorrent on battery whoopsie.. seeded to 80 percent	02:24
Stskeeps	and your phone bill bankrupting you?	02:24
djkrikke	how's the battery when torrenting?	02:24
nonversation	hows the video quality? what format does it save the videos in?	02:25
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nonversation	hope its mp4 or mov , avi	02:25
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nonversation	and not 3pg	02:25
Gadgetoid	dont torrent on battery :)	02:25
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djkrikke	is it really that bad? :P	02:25
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Gadgetoid	it could probably suck down a gig without seeding	02:26
ShadowJK	I would guess 2-4 hours torrenting on battery :)	02:26
nonversation	when you record video, what format is it in?	02:26
Gadgetoid	but if you plan to actually watch the video afterwards you are gonna want to do it on mains	02:26
ShadowJK	nonversation, mp4 probably	02:26
ShadowJK	I haven't checked	02:26
Gadgetoid	the torrent client also has a web ui	02:26
xchatevil	flickr should have some video	02:26
* ShadowJK hasn't had a nokia phone in 3 years that has used 3gp		02:27
Gadgetoid	so you can leave your phone charging and add torrents to it from your desktop	02:27
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djkrikke	funny	02:27
nonversation	Android default video recording is in 3gp	02:27
nonversation	no other options	02:27
djkrikke	but then you'd probably download torrents on your desktop and add them from your n900? :)	02:27
nonversation	but of course they dont tell you that when they sell it to you	02:27
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nonversation	and vlc doesn't support 3gp audio	02:28
nonversation	anymore	02:28
ShadowJK	3gp audio... you mean amr?	02:28
nonversation	yup	02:28
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nonversation	its a pain in the ass	02:28
nonversation	I think in linux you have to complile vlc from source to get it to play amr, I think they leave it out as default	02:29
ShadowJK	probably	02:29
nonversation	I could not get anything to play my 3gp videos from android in linux, or windows , or woud play without sound	02:29
ShadowJK	the amr reference implementation isn't redistributable	02:29
Gadgetoid	true djkrikke i usually ftp into my desktop from the n900 and grab what i need	02:29
nonversation	only option is a direct upload to youtube, or spend time trying to cover it	02:29
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nonversation	convert it	02:29
Gadgetoid	hmm that reminds me, need to grab my n810 and finish an ebook	02:30
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Gadgetoid	theres an account plugin to idle irc nut it cant join channels or identify with nickserv... boo	02:31
djkrikke	afraid to ask, but how's the battery life, can it handle at least 1 day?	02:31
djkrikke	I know it is in reviews	02:32
djkrikke	and there they say about "yes"	02:32
djkrikke	but when used like it should be used (ftp, irc, ..), how is it?	02:32
Gadgetoid	does for me, sits on my desk all day idling irc	02:32
ShadowJK	irc on 3g is bad with lots of channels. edge lasts the day. wlan lasts longer	02:33
Xisdibik	djkrikke: i unplug it at about 7-8am, and go until after 8pm. using it for at least 3 hours of music player, and it has wifi, gps, etc on.	02:33
Gadgetoid	i am never far from power though	02:33
Xisdibik	to me the battery life is great	02:35
djkrikke	at what percentage is the battery at 8pm?	02:36
Gadgetoid	n810 is better... lack of gsm helps	02:36
Xisdibik	djkrikke: not sure, never checked the exact %	02:36
Xisdibik	below 25% for sure id say	02:36
ShadowJK	with 20 freenode irc channels and 15 other irc channels, I'm at 57% after 10 hours	02:37
djkrikke	ok thanks for that information	02:37
Xisdibik	ive never felt like i was rushing to charge the thing tho	02:37
djkrikke	right now my iphone is at 40% each day	02:37
Xisdibik	ShadowJK: on wifi or GSM/3G?	02:37
sejo	can't I add mp3 files as ringtone?	02:37
djkrikke	problem is, I take the train to my university and there's bad reception, it literally kills the battery	02:37
ShadowJK	gsm	02:37
Gadgetoid	i gave my iphone to the other half	02:37
ShadowJK	with 3g it/s at 50% in 3 hours :)	02:38
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Gadgetoid	lack of multi tasking meant i basically had to carry the iphone and n810 everywhere	02:38
ShadowJK	3g is bad for irc	02:38
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SpeedEvil	xchat on n900 is quite OK.	02:40
ShadowJK	except that changing settings crashes	02:41
djkrikke	what I'm also wondering is, someone tried bluetooth internet tethering before?	02:41
SpeedEvil	It could do with kineticisation of the scrolly things, but apart from that, and the profile thing.	02:41
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Gadgetoid	apart from lack of kinetic scrolling and its hijacking the volume buttons to switch windows	02:41
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Gadgetoid	cant even easily reach the volume keys with the keyboard open	02:42
KenYoung	On my N900, I am unable to set the execute permission bit of any file stored on the microSD card. Does anyone know how that can be fixed?	02:42
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Gadgetoid	no ken	02:43
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Gadgetoid	unless you want to reformat it	02:43
crashanddie_mbp	KenYoung: it's because the fat partition is mounted with the nosuid flag or something	02:43
KenYoung	Gadgetoid, I'm willing to reformat.	02:43
Stskeeps	noexec	02:43
crashanddie_mbp	or noexec	02:43
Stskeeps	KenYoung: internal or external?	02:43
Gadgetoid	fat cant even support exec/perms surely	02:43
crashanddie_mbp	Gadgetoid: everything is set as exec on fat	02:43
Gadgetoid	mmmm .... secure	02:44
crashanddie_mbp	hence the noexec flag	02:44
Gadgetoid	haha	02:44
Gadgetoid	mount -o remount,exec ftw	02:44
KenYoung	Stskeeps, There's only one microSD slot on the N900, isn't there?	02:44
crashanddie_mbp	KenYoung: actually there's 2	02:44
Gadgetoid	dunno what device the sd is though	02:44
Stskeeps	KenYoung: well, the internal storage is 'technically' a sd, so wasn't sure what you meant. just format it ext2/ext3	02:45
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Stskeeps	KenYoung: and be happy	02:45
Stskeeps	P	02:45
SpeedEvil	Anyone figured out what pins under the battery might be?	02:45
crashanddie_mbp	SpeedEvil: i2c for sure	02:45
Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: serial, most likely.	02:45
ShadowJK	serial probably	02:45
crashanddie_mbp	there's two different set of pins	02:45
SpeedEvil	crashanddie_mbp: yeah. I was wondering if anyone had actually worked it out - wondering about gluing stuff on.	02:45
crashanddie_mbp	one which only has 2 pins, and another with 8 or 6	02:45
KenYoung	Stskeeps, Thanks, I will.	02:45
SpeedEvil	8/6 sounds like a candidate for jtag	02:46
crashanddie_mbp	indeed	02:46
crashanddie_mbp	i2c + jtag would make it very interesting	02:46
Gadgetoid	thats where someone will hack in a digital compass haha	02:46
* sejo has sounds video and now looking for themes :p		02:47
crashanddie_mbp	can we all be proper geeks, and just call it by its real name? A magnetometer	02:47
SpeedEvil	http://www.ssec.honeywell.com/magnetic/datasheets/HMC5843.pdf	02:47
Gadgetoid	magnetometerman	02:47
SpeedEvil	I2C, teeny, not too spendy	02:47
Stskeeps	how many pins does i2c typically require? :P	02:48
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SpeedEvil	2	02:48
Gadgetoid	just rig an ordinary compass under the n900 and use the camera to read it	02:48
Stskeeps	i mean, 2 serials and one jtag sounds sane.. but wtf is the last one	02:48
crashanddie_mbp	buttplug adapter	02:49
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Stskeeps	Gadgetoid: not an entirely bad idea :P	02:49
crashanddie_mbp	gives a whole new meaning to "Nokia: Connecting People:	02:49
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SpeedEvil	6 is the absolute minimum for jtag.	02:50
Gadgetoid	it would kinda work stskeeps... if you held it level	02:50
SpeedEvil	gnd/and 5 other signals	02:50
DocScrutinizer	I2C also loves GND	02:50
fernando__	er, I don't know if this is the right place, but... tablet-encode is quitting with a "Audio LAVC, couldn't find encoder for codec mp3." error	02:51
fernando__	should I... reinstall mencoder or something?	02:51
DocScrutinizer	most likely the pins under bat aren't suitable for extensions nayway	02:51
DocScrutinizer	that's all fab calib and QA for jigmount	02:52
DocScrutinizer	JTAG, and maybe modem-tty	02:52
fernando__	ah never mind	02:53
DocScrutinizer	Or speaker/earpiece etc, something they need to stick a DVM to	02:53
SpeedEvil	yeah - probably not plausible.	02:53
SpeedEvil	You could in principle probably add it easily.	02:53
SpeedEvil	Parallel the accel	02:53
DocScrutinizer	yup	02:54
DocScrutinizer	if you find the pads to slder a cable to	02:54
SpeedEvil	worst case, pull the chip	02:54
DocScrutinizer	eeeek	02:54
SpeedEvil	:)	02:54
Macer	hm	02:54
Macer	in maemo4 why doesn't this thing get my imap folders?	02:54
DocScrutinizer	how about USB hub?	02:55
SpeedEvil	(and yes, I'm slightly reluctant to solder)	02:55
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I haven't gotten round to it - I found stuff I'll need to test more today.	02:55
DocScrutinizer	aah that one	02:55
sejo	for maemo 5 (n900) mhat repo's should I set? fremantle	02:55
DocScrutinizer	I actually lost interest for now	02:56
sejo	diablo?	02:56
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizerI haven't.	02:56
SpeedEvil	Just too much annoying random crap, and getting up the energy	02:56
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: if you disassembe the critter, don't forget to post me highres flatbed scans	02:57
Macer	haha	02:57
DocScrutinizer	so I can read all the chip names ;-)	02:57
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Macer	and make the cheap chinese knockoff?	02:57
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: unfortunately, there is absolutely no way realistically I can afford to take it apart. If I break it, I will not be getting another.	02:58
DocScrutinizer	and nota bene: Nokia in their service manual marks can lids as "use new one, discard old part after removing" - well they do same for screws even o.O	02:58
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: same here ;-D	02:58
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crashanddie_mbp	DocScrutinizer: which service manual?	03:03
DocScrutinizer	for whatever it's worth: N810 "" PROD_TEST_PATTERN \n UART3(1:0) \n SLEEPCLK_REQ_1V8 \n SLEEPCLK_REQ_2V8 \n SCK ""	03:03
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie_mbp: ^^	03:04
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie_mbp: the answer ;-)	03:04
crashanddie_mbp	oh, n810 one, old	03:04
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SpeedEvil	http://www.mediafire.com/?ndmjylkj4wk	03:07
SpeedEvil	n900 service manual	03:07
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DocScrutinizer	how THE HECK download it?	03:08
jebba	a fkn .rar?	03:08
SpeedEvil	hmm	03:09
SpeedEvil	http://www.a2phone.com/component/option,com_phocadownload/Itemid,15/id,324/view,category/	03:09
jebba	have to log in to download....	03:10
SpeedEvil	yes - it's a pay site	03:10
DocScrutinizer	To access the private area of this site, please log in. :-((((	03:11
DocScrutinizer	GRRRRRRRRR	03:11
jebba	it's real hard to distribute .pdfs on the internet, i know.	03:11
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user___	sitting in da pub having a few	03:21
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user___	crap	03:23
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DocScrutinizer	havin a few crap - oh noes!	03:26
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DangerMaus	hehe	03:27
DangerMaus	gotta get an irssi config going here DocScrutinizer	03:27
DangerMaus	to stop signing on as user	03:28
ali1234	wow, i just had a PROPER crash	03:28
ali1234	while playing back a video i just recorded	03:28
ali1234	n900 did an instant-reset	03:29
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DocScrutinizer	oooops	03:30
djkrikke	nice one ali1234	03:33
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djkrikke	so how long have you people got the n900 already? In Belgium, it will be for sale on 11 dec	03:34
ali1234	i had it since the summit - only one crash in all that time, not too bad	03:34
* ShadowJK has had it since 27th		03:34
ShadowJK	(november)	03:34
DocScrutinizer	since 30.	03:35
* w00t got his on the uh.. 2nd		03:35
DangerMa1s	1st	03:35
johnx	since oct 9th or so I guess	03:35
DocScrutinizer	yayaya	03:35
DangerMa1s	hahaha	03:35
jebba	just this week....	03:36
DocScrutinizer	ali1234: culd you check the bootreason please?	03:37
jebba	maemo-optify-buildpackage hmm. That didn't seem to optify anything. I ran it like this `maemo-optify-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc` hints?	03:38
djkrikke	what was your previous phone ShadowJK?	03:38
ali1234	DocScrutinizer sure, one second	03:38
ShadowJK	djkrikke, Nokia E75, before that Nokia E70, before that Nokia 6820, before that Siemens CF-62, before that Nokia 3220	03:38
djkrikke	wow :)	03:38
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ShadowJK	Oh wait, I forgot the Siemens M35 before CF-62	03:38
ali1234	DocScrutinizer [114667.280273] Bootup reason: sw_rst	03:38
djkrikke	so you have been "into nokia" for a while	03:39
djkrikke	brb	03:39
DangerMa1s		03:39
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DocScrutinizer	ali1234: thnks (btw what's been the friggin name of the node to readout)	03:39
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w00t	heh	03:39
ali1234	DocScrutinizer: eh?	03:40
ShadowJK	Well after my first nokia died a strange death, I was a siemens user for two models. Siemens has more serious problems with their phones, they all died	03:40
w00t	I had a HTC universal previously	03:40
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SpeedEvil	/proc/boot_reason or something	03:40
w00t	that was a godly phone	03:40
ali1234	i did dmesg \| grep reason	03:40
w00t	but very very bad in terms of hw problems.	03:40
DocScrutinizer	ali1234: aah you got it from a log. There's been a /sys node on N810 at least	03:40
ali1234	obviously that only works if you're quick	03:40
ShadowJK	the first nokia, and the two siemens are dead, but the other phones still live. E70 is semi-dead, the joystick is kinda dodgy.	03:40
ali1234	/proc/bootreason	03:41
DocScrutinizer	proc	03:41
DocScrutinizer	thanks :-S	03:41
DocScrutinizer	ali1234: is log and /proc/bootreason consistent?	03:41
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ali1234	yes, they both say sw_rst	03:42
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, maybe a heavy glitch in graphics accel driver	03:42
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ali1234	looked like that to me, the video was very choppy before it crashed	03:42
ali1234	i also had two ssh connections running, one of which was pinging my router, to keep the wifi alive	03:43
DocScrutinizer	duh, you got ideas	03:43
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DocScrutinizer	well, I have reboots on N810 frequently. But always watchdog. Guess it's related to xchat logging	03:45
DocScrutinizer	as it's always doing a double reboot, I conclude that's fsck due to file writing activity while watchdog shutdown	03:46
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DocScrutinizer51	funny thing is the touchpanel obviously estends 2..3mm beyond the right (bottom) of the display :-P	03:53
DocScrutinizer51	on N900	03:53
ali1234	they should have made it extend further, i think. for scrolling	03:53
DocScrutinizer51	yep	03:53
ali1234	edge scrolling beats that multitouch crap any day	03:54
ali1234	i like to see what i'm scrolling past	03:54
DocScrutinizer51	ack	03:54
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ShadowJK	it extends on all sides I think	03:55
DocScrutinizer51	definitely not	03:55
DocScrutinizer51	on right side you get click event that seem to be outside of screen	03:57
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timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: browser uses that	03:57
DocScrutinizer51	ooh	03:57
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timeless_mbp	for the interaction mode and the back gesture	03:57
w00t	timeless_mbp: wtf are you doing still awake ;-)	03:57
timeless_mbp	watching SG1	03:58
w00t	ah	03:58
w00t	valid reason	03:58
w00t	my favourite series	03:58
w00t	seen any of universe?	03:58
timeless_mbp	sadly, i don't think it shows in .fi yet	03:58
DocScrutinizer51	timeless, I seem not to get it with the gesture part	03:59
w00t	..wait, there's a back gesture	04:00
* w00t missed that		04:00
DocScrutinizer51	timeless, could you ellaborate or toss pointer for rtfm? ;-)	04:00
timeless_mbp	start offscreen right and slide left	04:00
DocScrutinizer51	ok	04:00
DocScrutinizer51	thanks	04:01
timeless_mbp	at least, it should work..	04:01
timeless_mbp	the other thing is start from offscreen (bottom) left and slide right	04:01
timeless_mbp	that'll give you an indicator	04:01
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DocScrutinizer51	for xchat I can click to the right of scroll slider	04:02
DocScrutinizer51	for browser this seems to not apply	04:02
DocScrutinizer51	(clicks outside of screen thst is)	04:03
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jebba	i swear at one point i was able to set something that gave my location status via jabber and I could pick the resolution: country, city, neighborhood, street or somesuch. I can't find it now. Anyone?	04:07
w00t	click status area	04:07
w00t	click availability	04:07
w00t	click 'my location'	04:08
w00t	enjoy	04:08
* timeless_mbp watches as the tauri+tokra drop a stargate (dialing into a black hole) into a sun		04:10
w00t	heh	04:10
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w00t	i remember that ep	04:10
SpeedEvil	Recent book I read had a similar idea.	04:11
DocScrutinizer51	wohoohoo	04:11
SpeedEvil	but using the jets from a pulsar as a source	04:11
timeless_mbp	anything wrong?	04:11
timeless_mbp	nope. i've just never blown up a star before	04:11
djkrikke	someone tried podcasts on the nokia n900 yet?	04:11
DocScrutinizer51	who was teleporting a small bit of nearby sun into enemies starship? :-o	04:12
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w00t	timeless_mbp: favourite SG:1 member, go	04:12
w00t	djkrikke: I'm sure that someone would have by now, yes	04:12
w00t	djkrikke: do you have a specific question?	04:12
djkrikke	yes, is it possible to download podcasts over wifi and save them and listen to them afterwards?	04:13
fnordianslippers	use gpodder	04:14
djkrikke	allright	04:14
djkrikke	thanks for the suggestion	04:14
AakashPatel	Can we release closed source apps in garage and hopefully eventually to the extra's repo and stuff?	04:14
fnordianslippers	np	04:14
derf	Into extras, yes, I believe so.	04:14
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fsfsfs	Hi all	04:14
derf	I'm not sure why you would put something closed-source on garage.	04:15
AakashPatel	well how about in -extra's	04:15
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AakashPatel	or devel or whatever	04:15
derf	21:14:48 < derf> Into extras, yes, I believe so.	04:15
DocScrutinizer	ovi	04:15
AakashPatel	oh	04:15
AakashPatel	woops missed that	04:15
jebba	w00t: at the risk of uh, well, being foolish...where is "status area" (!)	04:15
derf	There's a non-free section.	04:16
w00t	jebba: where the wifi icon, carrier text is, etc	04:16
w00t	near the switcher button top left	04:16
DocScrutinizer	jebba: commonly known as systray, I guess	04:16
w00t	^	04:16
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DocScrutinizer	I don't get any interesting settings next to online status though	04:17
w00t	really?	04:17
w00t	did you click it?	04:17
DocScrutinizer	sure - lol	04:17
w00t	I have, top downwards, two rows	04:17
w00t	(well, more after, but it's unimportant)	04:17
w00t	online \| busy \| offline (buttons)	04:18
w00t	[Status text input] [My location button]	04:18
djkrikke	the AlmostTI Graphing Calc Emulator looks so fun :°	04:18
jebba	hahah. ok i only looked htere 10 times, must be getting tired hahah	04:18
DocScrutinizer	[online [offline] \n sip:myaccount \n Accounts	04:18
w00t	DocScrutinizer: weird.	04:18
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ShadowJK	I don't get the availability button either, but then I don't have any accounts entered that support that kind of stuff	04:19
w00t	hmm	04:19
w00t	perhaps that is it	04:19
DocScrutinizer	and right there is [new status] \n [store]	04:19
ShadowJK	msn, skype, jabber, etc	04:19
w00t	I have msn, skype, ovi, google chat	04:19
DocScrutinizer	that's it	04:19
DocScrutinizer	ovi especially I guess	04:20
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w00t	it was there before ovi, I only set that up today	04:21
DocScrutinizer	notifier: "Registered at Ovi of Nokia: joerg900 \n Chat, foo, and bla activated"	04:22
DocScrutinizer	yep, now it's there	04:22
AakashPatel	how do you swtich into the armel target in scratchbox?	04:22
* w00t adds you for fun and profit		04:23
DocScrutinizer	go ahead ;-D	04:23
* ShadowJK wonders if sb_menu does stuff		04:23
AakashPatel	oh yeah	04:24
AakashPatel	thanks	04:24
ShadowJK	and I don't even use that hting..	04:24
AakashPatel	lol i havent used scratchbox in a while	04:25
w00t	DocScrutinizer: did that work?	04:26
DocScrutinizer	errr, what?	04:27
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w00t	DocScrutinizer: tried adding you	04:27
DocScrutinizer	went unnoticed	04:27
DocScrutinizer	nooooow	04:28
DocScrutinizer	w00t: ok, for this one time :-DDD	04:29
w00t	ah :-D	04:29
* w00t hugs his n900		04:29
* kurtan kills w00t and steals the n900		04:30
w00t	kurtan: not got yours yet?	04:30
* kurtan has no ethics		04:30
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kurtan	no.. :(	04:30
ShadowJK	sweden has the hutchinson 3g disease I think :)	04:30
w00t	kurtan: where are you?	04:30
* DocScrutinizer wonders which friggin "app" (I start to hate the word) to use to see any detail about w00t		04:30
w00t	DocScrutinizer: contacts	04:30
timeless_mbp	wow, my recording timing sucked	04:30
kurtan	hopefully nokia will start delivery this week	04:30
w00t	(address book icon)	04:31
kurtan	w00t: sweden	04:31
w00t	kurtan: ...ah	04:31
timeless_mbp	it got everything until they try to escape the supernova	04:31
DocScrutinizer	he	04:31
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w00t	timeless_mbp: :-/	04:31
DocScrutinizer	there appeared a W00the@ovi.com automagically XD	04:31
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, well, it's mainstream scifi. They all make it, and the world/universe is saved for now.	04:32
ShadowJK	oh wait, was that the ep where that wasn't true? I can't remember :-(	04:32
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timeless_mbp	i'm currently reading a book	04:33
timeless_mbp	wherever every couple of chapters someone dies	04:33
w00t	DocScrutinizer: when did you get yours? ;)	04:33
w00t	ah	04:33
w00t	nvm	04:34
w00t	:P	04:34
ShadowJK	One day, we will have technology that enables us to, like, download stuff from start to end, instead of sitting with a stopwatch surrounded by alarms trying to catch the whims of broadcasters	04:34
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w00t	ShadowJK: :P	04:35
djkrikke	I see lots of users having troubles using vnc viewer on the n900, is this really working yet?	04:37
* ShadowJK hopes it wont involve adobe, javascript or theora		04:37
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DocScrutinizer	what's wrong with theora?	04:41
w00t	religious war alert	04:42
w00t	:p	04:42
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* DocScrutinizer ducks		04:42
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Elerion	Hi	04:43
kevloral	djkrikke: I have tried to use it, but it doesn't work for me. I can see in my firewall logs that some connection packets are arriving at my computer, but the client doesn't connect.	04:43
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DocScrutinizer	fix Ur firewall settings?	04:45
kevloral	DocScrutinizer: nope, that's not the problem.	04:45
Elerion	I got a preproduction N900 for a test. Are there any diferences between this and production model? (besides N900 logo on production ones)	04:46
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DocScrutinizer	how could anybody tell? :-P	04:46
djkrikke	Elerion, how do you get a preproduction device?	04:46
DocScrutinizer	send me your preprod device and I'll compare them happily	04:46
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Elerion	I work for telecom company and we usualy get all kinds of nice things. :-)	04:47
LinuxCode	djkrikke, it fell off a production line	04:47
djkrikke	lol :P	04:47
LinuxCode	close!	04:47
djkrikke	just curious :)	04:47
timeless_mbp	Elerion: there can be minor variations in the hardware	04:47
timeless_mbp	but generally, they're roughly equivalent	04:47
timeless_mbp	yours might not have a CE stamp	04:47
LinuxCode	it fell off a production line and and a Nokia manager took it and shipped it	04:48
timeless_mbp	which might technically cause issues if you cross international borders	04:48
DocScrutinizer	eeeew	04:48
DocScrutinizer	no CE	04:48
DocScrutinizer	what a pity	04:48
timeless_mbp	dunno	04:48
DocScrutinizer	:-P	04:48
timeless_mbp	i can't see his device	04:48
djkrikke	CE stamp?	04:48
LinuxCode	yah	04:48
timeless_mbp	oh, and it probably says "Not for resale"	04:48
LinuxCode	Euopean COmmunity	04:48
timeless_mbp	perhaps even "property of nokia"	04:48
djkrikke	ow	04:48
LinuxCode	its the logo used for approval of electronic devices in the EU	04:49
LinuxCode	without it, you cant sell it here	04:49
djkrikke	hmm	04:49
kevloral	LinuxCode: note really. It stands for Conformité Européene	04:49
timeless_mbp	http://www.retlif.com/documents/fcc_international.html	04:49
kevloral	s/note/not	04:49
LinuxCode	kevloral, thanks for clarifixation	04:49
LinuxCode	clarification	04:50
* LinuxCode was never interested enough to really find out what it stands for		04:50
DocScrutinizer	so take an Edding marker and write (CE) on it. It's basically what Nokia does as well	04:50
LinuxCode	DocScrutinizer, loool	04:50
LinuxCode	DocScrutinizer, I am sure nobody will notice	04:50
ShadowJK	self-certified :)	04:51
DocScrutinizer	yep	04:51
Elerion	It's HWID 2001, Build F4. (No CE mark) I'm asking because camera quality is quite bad. And i'm hoping it was improved in production model.	04:51
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DocScrutinizer	that why I say. That's what Nokia does	04:51
DocScrutinizer	Each el-cheapo mainland china crap has CE printed on it, and it's not even fraud	04:52
DocScrutinizer	it simply says "we think it's ok"	04:52
LinuxCode	DocScrutinizer, tell customs that, when they take it and scrunch it up	04:53
ShadowJK	well	04:53
ShadowJK	CE doesnt say much about whether something has good build quality or not, or even if it works	04:53
DocScrutinizer	actually I guess CE isn't required at any customs action for passengers	04:54
LinuxCode	ShadowJK, CE means it is safety tested	04:54
DocScrutinizer	NOOO	04:54
DocScrutinizer	exactly NOT	04:54
ShadowJK	ce pretty much only covers not catching fire when you plug it in, and no electrocuting you wif you touch it	04:54
DocScrutinizer	it really is self-certified by manuf - "we think it's ok"	04:54
ShadowJK	manufacturers are supposed to test it themselves. there's nobody checking whether that is the case	04:55
AakashPatel	what C++ socket library does maemo 5 offer?	04:55
DocScrutinizer	exactly	04:55
timeless_mbp	AakashPatel: why should we?	04:55
timeless_mbp	(answer: necko)	04:55
LinuxCode	ShadowJK, trading standards does	04:56
woglinde	AakashPatel boost	04:56
LinuxCode	in each EU country	04:56
AakashPatel	both?	04:56
timeless_mbp	woglinde: is boost actually included?	04:56
DocScrutinizer	eeeek bost	04:56
DocScrutinizer	boost even, bah	04:56
woglinde	hm	04:57
woglinde	my bad	04:57
woglinde	thought there was boost socket too	04:57
DocScrutinizer	well are you sure boost will fit on the 32GB of storage ? ;-P	04:57
ShadowJK	doubtful	04:57
woglinde	sure	04:58
ShadowJK	and it has to fit in 256meg along with the rest of the system	04:58
AakashPatel	neckoooo	04:58
AakashPatel	funny name	04:58
AakashPatel	lol	04:58
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what qt will bring to us		05:00
jebba900	woglinde any luck with glu etc?	05:01
DocScrutinizer	heh, jebba900?!?!!	05:01
DocScrutinizer	hehe	05:01
woglinde	jebba hm trying to compile glew now	05:02
woglinde	but will not work I guess	05:02
jebba900	sittin on couch without tab nick completion heh	05:02
DocScrutinizer51	docscrutinizer900 was imply too long ;)	05:02
DocScrutinizer51	xchat?	05:03
DocScrutinizer51	jebba900, xchat?	05:03
AakashPatel	its hard to find any networking examples in C++ :/	05:04
jebba900	xchut	05:04
woglinde	AakashPatel look at qt	05:04
yuizy	you can always use qt	05:04
AakashPatel	:0	05:04
AakashPatel	I'm tryin to think of how i will set up this kind of project	05:05
AakashPatel	I have to use protobuf's	05:05
DocScrutinizer51	jebba900, go to settings advanced kbd-shortcuts	05:06
jebba900	crashanddie_mbp, no?	05:07
jebba900	wow	05:07
AakashPatel	Are there any doc pages to developing in QT on maemo?	05:07
jebba900	i typed crash and it completed for me magically somehoww without tab so its there somewhere!	05:07
DocScrutinizer51	that's auto nick expand	05:08
AakashPatel	Hm, maemo 5 alreayd has all the stuff required to run qt linux apps?	05:08
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woglinde	diablo had	05:09
AakashPatel	ah, thats interesting	05:09
AakashPatel	why are the boasting about maemo 6 on the page?	05:09
woglinde	hm?	05:09
DocScrutinizer51	jebba900, works only owhen autocomplete in kbd is disabled?	05:09
woglinde	qt will only be main widget set with maemo6	05:09
woglinde	for now its gtk	05:09
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woglinde	as in earlier versions too	05:10
woglinde	okay sleep now	05:10
AakashPatel	ah, so qt is jsut an option to use on maemo5?	05:10
AakashPatel	okay, night :)	05:10
woglinde	maybee I have to steel at clutter	05:10
woglinde	right	05:10
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dick-richardson	how do you disable the shutter sound in fremantle?	05:10
jebba900	doc i cant do it again however i did it	05:10
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* jaem_ moos		05:11
AakashPatel	How the heck would I compile a QT app for armel?	05:11
DocScrutinizer51	jebba900, go to settings advanced kbd-shortcuts	05:11
jaem_	did someone poke me a little while back?	05:11
jaem_	I got a blinky light, but the scrollback missed it :/	05:11
KenYoung	Is there a way to get the N900 camera to save images with no compression at all?	05:11
jaem_	AakashPatel, Scratchbox, as normal - I do it all the time	05:11
AakashPatel	Does the default GUI sdk isntaller install all the frameworks and stuff?	05:12
jaem_	AakashPatel, there are qt 4.6 packages in extras-devel	05:12
jaem_	however, for some silly reason, qmake is compiled for i386	05:12
jaem_	I'm just going to shower, but I can send you a proper qmake package in a few minutes	05:12
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jaem_	brb	05:12
AakashPatel	okay	05:13
AakashPatel	thanks	05:13
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jaem_	AakashPatel, in the mean time, add extras-devel to your sbox source.list, and install all the libqt4-maemo5-* packages	05:13
AakashPatel	okay	05:14
AakashPatel	in the armel target	05:14
AakashPatel	or the x86	05:14
AakashPatel	eh in the armel...stupid question	05:14
DocScrutinizer51	jebba900, I just changed autocompletion in xchat to shift-right	05:17
DocScrutinizer51	even better than what I had before	05:18
jebba900	DocScrutinizer51, got it. ctrl-right is decent	05:18
jebba900	thx	05:18
DocScrutinizer51	that's what I had before	05:18
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DocScrutinizer51	I like the skip word default function though	05:19
Elerion	Limitation for only one APN in N900 settings... is there a way around it?	05:20
jebba900	APN?	05:20
Elerion	packet connection	05:20
AakashPatel	erm wtf	05:20
DocScrutinizer51	which limitation??	05:21
jebba900	wtf packet connection. bluetooth?	05:21
AakashPatel	what do i add in my sources.list for extras-devel?	05:21
Elerion	No. GPRS. you can't add more then one.	05:21
DocScrutinizer51	aaah	05:21
jebba900	wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel iirc	05:21
* DocScrutinizer51 checks PC connectivity manager		05:22
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DocScrutinizer51	nah, nevermind	05:23
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derf	Someday I would like to commit to garage and not have it take an hour.	05:29
DocScrutinizer51	Elerion, actually thereseems to be no (standard) way to change *0" on the fly	05:29
Elerion	What's the another way, can I add it manually somewhere?	05:29
AakashPatel	is it normal for when tyring to boot emulator (xephyr + scratchbox) in armel mode for it to shit its pants?	05:30
DocScrutinizer51	s/*0"/APN/	05:30
derf	AakashPatel: Apprently.	05:31
derf	*Apparently.	05:31
AakashPatel	erm	05:31
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derf	It worked okay for prior release, but not maemo5.	05:31
AakashPatel	that's gonna be a problem	05:31
derf	*releases	05:31
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derf	I can't type tonight.	05:31
AakashPatel	Lol	05:31
Elerion	D: s/*0"/APN/ doesn't say much to me.	05:32
AakashPatel	So I guess to test my app I'll have to copy it over to the device and run it	05:32
jebba900	AakashPatel, croaks for me....	05:33
* fireun is having fun after installing x11vnc		05:33
derf	AakashPatel: That's what everyone else does.	05:33
derf	Be happy you don't have to put it on an SD card with a USB adapter and then shove the card under the battery and reboot the device.	05:34
derf	Which is what real embedded developers do.	05:34
AakashPatel	Yeah I know :/	05:34
AakashPatel	I used to mess with ARM dev boards	05:34
derf	Then this should refreshingly easy!	05:35
AakashPatel	Lol	05:35
derf	be	05:35
AakashPatel	Is it possible to download the factory images that come with the N900?	05:35
derf	Yes.	05:35
AakashPatel	Do you have a link? I searched but couldnt find it	05:35
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derf	http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware	05:36
derf	I've had this thing two whole days without having to flash it, which I think is a record for me and Maemo devices.	05:37
AakashPatel	Hm, "root" command to get root shel?	05:37
luke-jr	sudo, duh?	05:38
AakashPatel	:P passwardz?	05:38
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luke-jr	"nokiasucks"	05:39
AakashPatel	reasonable	05:39
AakashPatel	lol	05:39
luke-jr	<.<	05:39
AakashPatel	what the fuck	05:40
AakashPatel	"unable to uninstall rootsh	05:40
jaem_	AakashPatel, where are you installing it?	05:40
AakashPatel	i was tryin to uninstall rootsh from the device lol	05:41
jaem_	AakashPatel, package will be up momentarily	05:41
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AakashPatel	what do you meant	05:41
AakashPatel	mean*	05:41
luke-jr	wait	05:42
luke-jr	did that password actually work??\	05:42
jaem_	AakashPatel, I'm uploading the correctly-built libqt4-maemo5-dev package for you	05:42
AakashPatel	Ah	05:42
jaem_	not sure what's up with the original one	05:42
AakashPatel	jaem_, what do i add to sources.list?	05:42
jaem_	it actually may have been fixed since I checked, for all I know, but I couldn't contact the maintainer	05:42
jaem_	one sec	05:42
AakashPatel	I've tried adding a buncha shit but it comes back 404	05:42
AakashPatel	thanks	05:42
jaem_	AakashPatel, this line	05:42
jaem_	deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel fremantle free	05:43
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jaem_	and the same with a deb-src prefix if you want source packages as well	05:43
jaem_	be aware that that repo is very unstable, and you'd be advised to comment out the line once you have the qt packages installed	05:43
AakashPatel	i wonder why the hell i cant unisntall rootsh	05:43
AakashPatel	okay	05:43
AakashPatel	i will	05:43
jaem_	alternatively, you can use the qt 4.5 packages from extras, but they aren't modified to work with Maemo, and won't be	05:44
AakashPatel	is there a way to control the phone shell from the computer?	05:44
AakashPatel	like 'adb' on android?	05:44
jaem_	yep - just install the openssh-server package	05:44
AakashPatel	ah	05:45
jaem_	if you know your phone's IP, you could even access it remotely if you lose it	05:45
jaem_	say, to delete sensitive files	05:45
AakashPatel	cuz i dont wanna mess with scratchbox shit lol	05:45
jaem_	or to install text-to-speech and yell for help :P	05:45
AakashPatel	haha	05:45
jaem_	well, you'll have to use sbox for development	05:45
AakashPatel	finee	05:45
jaem_	s/have to/would be strongly advised to/	05:45
AakashPatel	lol	05:45
AakashPatel	what packages was i supposed to install?	05:46
jebba900	so how does one hit F1 etc in terminal?	05:46
jaem_	do an apt-cache search libqt4-maemo5	05:46
jaem_	the packages are split into modules	05:46
jaem_	you'll want all of them, probably	05:46
jaem_	AakashPatel, you'll also need to install this overtop afterward: http://adrestia.creativemisconfiguration.com/files/ffejery/maemo/qt/libqt4-maemo5-dev_4.6.0~git20091119-0maemo1_armel.deb	05:47
jaem_	that's the correct build	05:47
jaem_	just use dpkg -i	05:47
AakashPatel	D:	05:48
AakashPatel	broken dependencies	05:48
jaem_	AakashPatel, message?	05:48
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AakashPatel	hold on	05:48
AakashPatel	http://pastebin.com/m383a8df3	05:48
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DocScrutinizer-8	jebba: seems there's no simple way. for mc the plain numbers do	05:49
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jaem_	AakashPatel, :S	05:49
jaem_	version mismatch	05:49
jaem_	um...	05:49
DocScrutinizer-8	jebba900: or you may try to hit the generated esc sequence	05:49
jaem_	you could always build it yourself, and make sure you get it all righ	05:49
jaem_	but that may take a while, depending on our machine	05:50
jaem_	it is fully automated, though	05:50
* fireun wishes there was a nokia exchange program for n770s, wants maemo5		05:50
jaem_	oh wait	05:50
jaem_	never mind, I think I know	05:50
jaem_	AakashPatel, did you install my package first?	05:50
AakashPatel	nope	05:50
jaem_	odd	05:50
jaem_	hmm	05:50
jaem_	let me check something	05:50
AakashPatel	okay	05:50
AakashPatel	OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11 is newer than 1.2009.42-11.002 right?	05:51
jaem_	AakashPatel, I'm updating my sbox packages - let me see if I can figure this out	05:52
AakashPatel	okay	05:52
AakashPatel	thaks	05:52
AakashPatel	thanks	05:53
jaem_	it looks like the packaging may be in flux a bit - hardly surprising given its pre-release status	05:53
jaem_	let's see if this works...	05:53
jebba900	DocScrutinizer, this in htop...	05:54
jaem_	AakashPatel, is your sbox install up-to-date?	05:54
AakashPatel	i did it like...2 days ago	05:55
jaem_	hmm	05:55
fireun	anyone use x11vnc? not sure how to keep the background lit when there's mouse or keyboard input, keeps going dark too soon.	05:55
jaem_	AakashPatel, do you mind running an upgrade, just to humour me?	05:55
AakashPatel	how do i?	05:56
jaem_	apt-get update	05:56
AakashPatel	k	05:56
jaem_	fakeroot apt-get upgrade	05:56
jaem_	if it says packages have been held back, pastebin it to me	05:56
jebba900	DocScrutinizer, ah cool in htop you can just tap them	05:56
AakashPatel	libacl1 libattr1 linux-kernel-headers maemo-version maemo-version-dev mini-rc perl	05:56
AakashPatel	perl-base perl-modules	05:56
AakashPatel	it upgraded those	05:56
jaem_	okay	05:57
jaem_	run fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade	05:57
AakashPatel	bsdutils libblkid1 mount	05:57
AakashPatel	those are being upgraded now	05:57
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AakashPatel	ok	05:58
AakashPatel	done	05:58
jaem_	try installing just libqt4-maemo5-dev now	05:58
crashanddie_mbp	jebba900: ?	05:59
AakashPatel	installing	05:59
jaem_	AakashPatel, is it pulling a bunch of dependencies with it?	05:59
AakashPatel	yeah	05:59
jaem_	all the qt packages, more or less?	05:59
AakashPatel	yep	05:59
jebba900	crashanddie_mbp, if you are looking at scrollback igore. i typed crash and accidentally got nick completion	05:59
jaem_	AakashPatel, :) okay - you should be good, then	06:00
jaem_	you'll need to add Qt's bin path (in /opt) to your PATH, to get access to qmake and friends	06:00
jaem_	and also FYI, unless things have changed, it doesn't build all the dbus command line tools - if you need them, you can build them from the source packages (just tweak the debian/rules file a bit)	06:01
jaem_	I have to run, but I hope that works for you	06:01
jaem_	cheers	06:01
derf	svn: Server sent unexpected return value (405 Method Not Allowed) in response to MKCOL request for '/svn/gjiten/!svn/wrk/70b05d26-20c1-473c-929c-2f31d5408b65/www/dists/fremantle/user/binary-armel'	06:01
AakashPatel	thanks man	06:01
derf	Garage seems busted.	06:01
AakashPatel	now back to my version question	06:01
AakashPatel	Is OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11 is newer than 1.2009.42-11.002?	06:02
AakashPatel	If you make your app in Qt	06:10
AakashPatel	How would the GUI look?	06:10
jaem_	AakashPatel, on Maemo5, it will be themed like a Maemo app	06:11
jaem_	as much as it can, automatically	06:11
crashanddie_mbp	jebba900: fair enough	06:11
jaem_	if it's a stock desktop Qt app, though, you'll need to modify the UI a bit, at least	06:11
AakashPatel	So would i just use the standard Qt GUI stuff?	06:11
jaem_	and you may want to redo it to make it more suited for a mobile device	06:11
jaem_	but yes	06:11
jaem_	standard Qt will work fine out of the box	06:11
AakashPatel	what about notifications?	06:11
jaem_	for some values of fine :P	06:11
jaem_	AakashPatel, not sure	06:12
AakashPatel	Like the LED and stuff	06:12
jaem_	oh, that	06:12
jaem_	that's all DBus stuff	06:12
jaem_	well, the LED and the vibe, anyway	06:12
AakashPatel	Eh so its still in C++	06:12
jaem_	search it up on mxr.maemo.org for the DBus PI	06:12
jaem_	no, it's DBus	06:12
AakashPatel	i mean to interface with it?	06:12
jaem_	and on-screen notifications (banner and such) are handled differently	06:12
jaem_	yes, it uses DBus, so you can use any language with DBus bindings	06:12
AakashPatel	oh i see	06:13
* AakashPatel hasnt used DBus before		06:13
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jaem_	AakashPatel, have fun >:)	06:13
jaem_	it takes some getting used to	06:13
AakashPatel	I shall :/	06:13
AakashPatel	haha	06:13
* AakashPatel wonders how banner notifications are handled		06:14
jaem_	AakashPatel, I think it's called hildon-banner	06:15
jaem_	it should be mentioned on the wiki	06:15
AakashPatel	yea isnt that GTK though?	06:15
jaem_	um, yes, but I'm not sure if you access it directly, or if it's DBus, or something else entirely	06:15
jaem_	haven't a clue ;)	06:15
AakashPatel	Hm, maybe I'll just make the network stuff using QT and the GUI using GTK	06:16
AakashPatel	if thats possible o.O	06:16
crashanddie_mbp	possible, but highly not recommended	06:16
jaem_	don't	06:16
jaem_	just... don't	06:16
AakashPatel	i see	06:16
AakashPatel	hah i wont	06:16
crashanddie_mbp	AakashPatel: the overhead of loading two completely separate libraries would be massive	06:17
jaem_	AakashPatel, see this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon/Qt_Hildon_Widgets	06:17
jaem_	not sure what state it's in, but the Qt version of hildon-banner is out there now	06:17
jaem_	you'll probably have to compile it for now	06:17
jaem_	Qt4 for Maemo is slated to "officially" pass QA in Q1 2010, I belive	06:18
jaem_	it's still not finished	06:18
jaem_	but it works	06:18
AakashPatel	Hm what would in your opinoin be easier, using GTK for the whole app, for QT	06:18
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AakashPatel	opinion*	06:18
AakashPatel	for/or*	06:19
jaem_	Qt	06:19
jaem_	haven't used GTK, but the code looks scary	06:19
asidjazz	theres definitley apps on maemo select not in the app manager	06:19
asidjazz	jaem_: u good @ cpp?	06:19
jaem_	asidjazz, somewhat	06:21
jaem_	just heading for dinner - anything quick?	06:21
* jaem_ will be ack		06:22
jaem_	back*	06:22
Macer	hm	06:22
asidjazz	no i was just asknig	06:22
asidjazz	cuz you were look at gtk	06:22
Macer	osx + term + screen + irssi is goofy	06:22
asidjazz	i still havent dipped into it yet	06:22
Macer	like the text keeps reversing on its own for some reason	06:23
Macer	maybe there is some odd option i missed	06:23
* crashanddie_mbp is bored		06:24
asidjazz	this in maemo Macer ?	06:24
crashanddie_mbp	asidjazz: osx in maemo?	06:25
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Macer	hm.. ok	06:26
Macer	well. hopefully that did the job. guess xterm-color just sucks	06:26
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AakashPatel	If i had an app in Qt	06:29
AakashPatel	Could I still use a protobuf lib compiled for cpp?	06:29
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Macer	AakashPatel: are you building on the n900 itself?	06:30
Macer	does it have like dev tools on the phone?	06:30
AakashPatel	Yes	06:30
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AakashPatel	Oh no	06:30
Macer	wow that's pretty awesome	06:30
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AakashPatel	:P	06:30
Macer	oh	06:30
Macer	yeah. i figured it wouldn't haha	06:30
AakashPatel	i dontsee why i couldnt	06:30
Macer	i tried to get that working in maemo4.. didn't work	06:30
Macer	try it and let me kno	06:30
Macer	know lol	06:31
AakashPatel	lol maybe :P	06:31
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Macer	i'm on my macbook. i haven't used the damn thing in like forever	06:31
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crashanddie_mbp	Macer: it worked fine on the n8x0	06:33
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AakashPatel	wtfff	06:33
AakashPatel	errarrr	06:33
AakashPatel	when 'make'ing	06:33
crashanddie_mbp	Macer: a lot of people had a full python dev environment running or full gcc/g++ system	06:34
AakashPatel	http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon	06:36
AakashPatel	:0	06:36
AakashPatel	init.c:(.text+0x30): undefined reference to `main	06:44
AakashPatel	:\|	06:44
Macer	crashanddie_mbp: lies!	06:50
Macer	heh	06:50
crashanddie_mbp	AakashPatel: use an int main(void) in your file?	06:51
crashanddie_mbp	Macer: ?	06:51
crashanddie_mbp	Macer: liqbase was 100% built on an n810	06:51
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AakashPatel	crashanddie_mbp, http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/network-http.html	06:51
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AakashPatel	I tried to compile that in the armel target in scratchbox	06:52
Macer	lies!!	06:52
Macer	heh	06:52
crashanddie_mbp	and?	06:52
AakashPatel	erm hold on	06:52
AakashPatel	http://pastebin.com/m67657776	06:52
AakashPatel	I'm getting that errro	06:53
crashanddie_mbp	because you didn't download the main.cpp?	06:53
crashanddie_mbp	I dunno dude	06:53
crashanddie_mbp	why the fuck would I know why some dodgy program doesn't compile?	06:53
crashanddie_mbp	check the source code, use your brains :)	06:54
Macer	haha	06:54
Macer	i thought that was what apt was for	06:54
crashanddie_mbp	Macer: he's trying to do development	06:54
AakashPatel	D:	06:54
AakashPatel	And failing	06:54
crashanddie_mbp	or at least, running some piece of code	06:54
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AakashPatel	how can i run a GUI app from the terminal?	07:07
AakashPatel	I do rootsh /media/mmc1/test	07:08
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AakashPatel	but it says Permission denied	07:08
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AakashPatel	why the hell is it permission denying me?	07:15
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CutMeOwnThroat	perhaps because you're underage	07:15
AakashPatel	haha	07:15
AakashPatel	but srsly	07:16
AakashPatel	do you have a clue?	07:16
CutMeOwnThroat	many	07:16
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AakashPatel	CutMeOwnThroat, Do you want to help me out?	07:16
CutMeOwnThroat	a) dunno if you can use rootsh like that... b) ls -la /media/mmc1/test	07:17
CutMeOwnThroat	and c) there's a mountflag that allows executing	07:17
AakashPatel	-rw-r--r--	07:17
AakashPatel	I moved it over to MyDOcs	07:18
* AakashPatel chmod 777's it		07:19
AakashPatel	:/	07:20
CutMeOwnThroat	chmod a+x yourfile	07:20
AakashPatel	okay	07:20
AakashPatel	it stays the same	07:20
AakashPatel	:/	07:20
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CutMeOwnThroat	(777 does it too, I mostly prefer the more obvious a+x and so on)	07:20
AakashPatel	Yeh	07:21
AakashPatel	idk why its staying rw-r--r-- though :/	07:21
CutMeOwnThroat	mmc1 is the external card... it's a fat filesystem	07:21
AakashPatel	i moved it to MyDocs/test	07:21
AakashPatel	and i'm in a root shell	07:22
CutMeOwnThroat	probably something like mount /media/mmc1/ -o remount,fmask=000 does it	07:23
AakashPatel	but its not on mmc1 anymore	07:23
AakashPatel	its on the phone's flash	07:23
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CutMeOwnThroat	you also get permission denied if it's a shell scipt which has #!/somewhere/nonexecutablefile	07:25
AakashPatel	this is compiled binary	07:25
AakashPatel	a quick hello world in qt	07:25
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CutMeOwnThroat	try mount \|grep noexec	07:28
AakashPatel	okay i ran it	07:30
AakashPatel	/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat	07:30
AakashPatel	:/	07:30
AakashPatel	where should i move it?	07:31
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AakashPatel	okay got it	07:33
AakashPatel	thank	07:33
AakashPatel	s	07:33
CutMeOwnThroat	$HOME/bin?	07:33
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AakashPatel	i tried in /var/tmp	07:33
AakashPatel	lol	07:33
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CutMeOwnThroat	you can also remount vfat to allow all kinds of things, as I pointed out above	07:34
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DocScrutinizer-8	has anybody seen a manual for the tiny CA-148C usb-adapter that came with N900?	07:51
DocScrutinizer-8	I'd think using this adapter without proper instruction is rather scary	07:52
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crashanddie_mbp	~ping	08:18
infobot	~pong	08:18
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* lucent has N900 on pre-order, peeks in to see what he can see		08:21
jiiv	:/ not much, mine's just shipped Friday.	08:22
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lucent	it's exciting for me - I'm a long time Linux user and I was not thinking "wow" until the N900 caught my eye	08:23
lucent	never had a phone with a data plan	08:23
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jiiv	I've been addicted to my n810 for quite some time, but the n900 is really the first 'gadget' that has really excited me.	08:24
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jiiv	there's no telling how many times i refreshed dell's order page in the last month...	08:25
lucent	what pushed me to the point of buying it is my AT&T plan for basic nationwide service is more expensive than T-Mobile 3G with unlimited dataplan	08:25
lucent	linux phone, works with cheaper phone service, have 3G coverage in my area... done deal.	08:26
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lucent	jiiv: have you any thoughts about protecting the phone from scratches?	08:26
lucent	I have never had an expensive phone - as I said above - so I'm nervous about what to do on a slider device	08:27
jiiv	I ordered one of the zagg full body kits, but don't know how good it is or when it'll arrive.	08:27
jiiv	honestly i'm not too worried about the slider- my 810 is still very solid after a year or two of everyday use.	08:27
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lucent	ah, yeah ordered a zagg here too... was backordered 2-3 weeks from then	08:27
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lucent	cool to hear that thanks	08:28
lucent	what was the battery run time of the N810?	08:28
jiiv	no problem :) i've only spent about 10 minutes with a 900, but it seemed good too.	08:28
jiiv	the 810...well, with limited use it's good for definitely more than a day.	08:28
lucent	I don't know if I should compare N900 to a sub notebook or a cameraphone	08:28
jiiv	if i work it really hard on wifi i can probably kill it in 4-6 hours?	08:28
jiiv	it's between the two, really.	08:28
lucent	ah, okay	08:28
johnx	I've had one since oct 9th. People have said that it scratches easily, but mine seems ok without a screen protector so far. Also, I'm not so worried about keeping it looking "totally new" at the cost of reduced touchscreen sensitivity...	08:29
pekuja	a day is ok	08:29
pekuja	less than that is not enough for a phone	08:29
jiiv	effectively it has as much power as a netbook, but much more portability.	08:29
jiiv	indeed.	08:29
pekuja	less than a day is just not very dependable	08:30
jiiv	true. i honestly don't know how the 900 will last, but with recent firmware the reports have been pretty good.	08:30
johnx	there are good ways to kill the battery for sure. Running the FM transmitter constantly is one. Or keeping some flash applet running in the browser for hours	08:30
lucent	jiiv: any idea if the zagg would interfere with IR wavelength light?	08:30
jiiv	shouldn't, it's transparent.	08:30
lucent	transparent to us	08:30
lucent	I don't know about IR	08:30
jiiv	true ;)	08:30
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jiiv	i believe the ir port is cutout on the zagg though.	08:31
lucent	ah	08:31
jiiv	don't quote me, but i think that's the case.	08:31
johnx	thinking about the proximity sensor? I think someone already tested some screen protector and said it was ok	08:31
johnx	dunno if it was the zagg	08:31
jiiv	yeah, there was a post on that.	08:31
lucent	okay so a slider with a zagg full body, then... I'm worried about "butterfingers" dropping the thing or throwing it into a backpack of ski gear	08:31
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jiiv	yeah...supposedly the zagg's tough; ski gear may not be a major issue unless you really crush it. but it's a very solid-feeling device.	08:32
johnx	how sharp is your ski gear? :)	08:32
lucent	ordering a CP321 was like pulling teeth, it's not available in the USA	08:32
jiiv	cp321?	08:32
lucent	johnx: depends if I'm running from the police or not that day? :P	08:33
jiiv	ah, case.	08:33
jiiv	i kinda wish they'd included a sleeve like they did on the 810...the color scheme was kinda girly, but it's not a bad way to carry one.	08:33
johnx	lucent, if you're running from the police, you'll want the N900 in your pocket so you can easily grab it and throw it at them :)	08:33
lucent	ah, okay so it's solid	08:34
lucent	very good	08:34
jiiv	nah, he needs it in hand so he can hack the traffic lights & cause a traffic jam like zero cool.	08:34
lucent	I'm only wishing N900 had an RFID reader	08:34
jiiv	that would be handy. it'll apparently do barcodes via mbarcode...	08:35
lucent	ooh!	08:35
jiiv	i haven't tried it (obviously, given my lack of a device), but the forums indicate that it's pretty good.	08:35
lucent	I never bothered to look since I was thinking it is a phone, does there exist some kind of USB host support?	08:35
jiiv	no, though it's questionable whether it may happen at some point or not.	08:36
lucent	oh I thought it had to be in hardware	08:36
jiiv	that's sort of a big letdown, i use usb on my current nit all the time.	08:36
lucent	years ago I jumped on the gadget train and bought a Sharp C3000, and then C3100	08:37
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lucent	with a special host adapter cable, it enabled host adapter mode	08:37
jiiv	i'm not sure of the details, honestly. it's definite that it doesn't work out of the box, but some people seem to think it's possible.	08:37
jiiv	cool.	08:37
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jiiv	yeah, host mode is very handy for me. apparently some people never use it, but i'm going to miss it if it's not there. :/	08:37
lucent	yeah, I'd find it useful just to get a serial port going	08:37
crashanddie_mbp_	host mode would be awesome for more than one reason	08:38
jiiv	i believe there are bluetooth to serial modules available?	08:38
jiiv	but yeah, usb drives in particular.	08:38
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fredrin	is host mode possible on the n900?	08:38
jiiv	currently no usb host, but maybe someone can make something work.	08:39
DocScrutinizer51	host mode very likely possible for externally powerwd devices. seems it,s difficult to provide 5V to N900 receptacle from builtin bat	08:39
cehteh	it conflicts with the charge-over-usb specs so its a bit delicate	08:39
jiiv	indeed.	08:39
fredrin	it would be nice to be able to plugin usbsticks	08:39
RST38h	Poor tmo has become completely useless :(	08:40
DocScrutinizer51	nah. why does it conflict??	08:40
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jiiv	i'd be fine with carrying a seperate power-injection device if necessary.	08:40
cehteh	i dont know the details, but i suspect there is a standard how power for charging is arbitated which will not work with gadgets	08:41
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cehteh	note that charging can draw way more power than usb is normally permitted	08:41
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cehteh	and the charge circruit might not like/work with putting power out there	08:41
lucent	RST38h: tmo? like tmobile	08:42
DocScrutinizer51	that's all moot points	08:42
jiiv	talk.maemo.org?	08:42
lucent	oh okay I'm new	08:42
jiiv	i'm not sure which he meant either, actually :)	08:42
jiiv	kinda wish the two weren't the same acronym...	08:42
cehteh	well if it is electically impossible then it would be rather tough	08:42
DocScrutinizer51	there,s even an official charger spec supplement to usb-otg	08:42
lucent	nervous also about the $50 rebate, can I sign up for ovi store from wifi connection or do I need a 3G/EDGE connection for any reason?	08:42
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RST38h	And irc appears to be helpless too...	08:43
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: other way around or?	08:43
cehteh	or they just didnt implement that spec but just client mode and the (now EU offical) spec for charging cell phones over usb	08:43
DocScrutinizer51	huh?	08:43
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cehteh	officially the n900 does not support usb otg .. point	08:44
cehteh	anything around that would pure hacking	08:44
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DocScrutinizer-8	cehteh: notice OTG isn't exactly what we want. Hostmode would keep everybody smiling. OTG is useless fancy crap mostly	08:46
t_s_o	hmm, the battery charge spec say that one can draw upto 1.5A at low or full speed. thats quite a bit more then the 500mA that usb 2.0 normally allows...	08:46
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DocScrutinizer-8	so what?	08:47
jiiv	yeah, host is fine.	08:47
DocScrutinizer-8	that's for chargers	08:47
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: yes sure, but i dont know some tell the hardware is incapable of host mode (maybe just some wrong directed diode?) others say its just not certified because of lack of software	08:47
cehteh	but i am pretty sure that you can fry your device when you dont exactly know what you are doing there	08:48
DocScrutinizer-8	yes, and nobody knows details	08:48
cehteh	seen the charging n990 from freerunner thing?	08:48
DocScrutinizer-8	lol	08:48
DocScrutinizer-8	sure	08:48
DocScrutinizer-8	I closed the ticket on OM-trac	08:49
cehteh	well i dont want my n900 turning into a brick if molten plastic :)	08:49
DocScrutinizer-8	point taken	08:49
jaem_	jiiv, (re tmo), talk.maemo.org is generally written lowercase, with periods "t.m.o", as opposed to T-Mo	08:50
cehteh	i dont know the electrical details about charger/host mode but normally there are some protecting circruits on usb ports, fuses, antilpolar diodes and such	08:50
jaem_	but yes, it is a bit ambiguous sometimes	08:50
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cehteh	it needs some hardware support for making it possible	08:50
jiiv	jaem_: yeah :/ i've seen them both in a variety of ways.	08:50
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jaem_	jiiv, heh, yeah	08:51
DocScrutinizer-8	cehteh: yes. exactly	08:51
cehteh	chargin pull the 2 data lines up with a 200 ohm resistor iirc .. but i dont know more	08:51
t_s_o	heh, reading about otg, i would love to see all usb 3 or at some later point, be basically otg as long as they can be self-powered...	08:51
lucent	bluetooth serial might work for my uses, erg	08:52
t_s_o	that is, make all self-powered devices peers, rather then host/node, or whatever its called...	08:52
DocScrutinizer-8	cehteh: no, chargers short the D+ with D-	08:52
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lucent	shame I can't re-use my usb gadgets with the N900 out of the box	08:52
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cehteh	DocScrutinizer: or that .... but over a resistor	08:52
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cehteh	i am thinking about building a charge circruit from my bike dynamo .. when i do that i look into the details	08:53
cehteh	but first i need a n900 :P	08:53
cehteh	then a rugged case ..	08:53
* jaem_ gives cehteh an N900		08:53
cehteh	so .. prolly in summer :P	08:53
jaem_	oh, you mean a real one	08:54
cehteh	yeah	08:54
DocScrutinizer-8	cehteh: the resistor has 0..20 Ohms iirc ;-D	08:54
cehteh	prolly nokia will drop maemo in favor of symbian just when i receive mine	08:55
DocScrutinizer-8	doubt that	08:55
cehteh	apple cancled the newton after i brought one	08:55
DocScrutinizer-8	N900 sells like cold beer in summer	08:55
t_s_o	symbian is a even greater mess, thing is tho that nokia at some level still wants clearly defined devices rather then general computers...	08:55
cehteh	well i am confident with the n900 because its sufficiently open enough to last longer than nokia might be interested	08:56
DocScrutinizer-8	yep	08:56
cehteh	btw has the internal micro sd port sdio capabilities?	08:57
cehteh	is that even possible?	08:57
cehteh	would open it for some hacks :)	08:57
t_s_o	i think micro-sd can be sdio yes, but about the n900 supporting it, no clue. hell, i dont even know why they would as it seems sdio is a solution looking for a problem...	08:58
DocScrutinizer-8	you talk about real uSD, not internal MMC I guess? Anyway, no idea	08:58
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crashanddie_mbp	cehteh: I've used smart uSDs and communicated with them successfully	08:59
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crashanddie_mbp	cehteh: though, it's not real SDIO	08:59
cehteh	ah nice .. well thats a start	09:00
lucent	cehteh: ;)	09:00
cehteh	well half as usefull since its not an external sd port .. but well	09:01
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crashanddie_mbp	depends for whom	09:01
DocScrutinizer-8	aiui there's an internal USB bus. If you want to hack the hardware	09:01
* cehteh adds that to the long list of wishes		09:01
lucent	sdio is a very tightly licensed and controlled consortum specification	09:01
lucent	(I heard this from rockbox music firmware developers)	09:01
cehteh	compass, external SDIO, dual SIM, biggier battery ...	09:02
lucent	compass?	09:02
cehteh	lucent: yes but the kernel has drivers for sdio	09:02
crashanddie_mbp	there are ways around -- SDIO is an implementation of a good idea, there are other implementations	09:02
DocScrutinizer-8	dual SIM, yeah	09:02
cehteh	crashanddie_mbp: well there is no wired bus at all where the n900 can play master	09:02
lucent	I don't know any phone with dual SIM though	09:02
cehteh	ethernet jack! :)	09:03
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cehteh	lucent: compass and this broken gps might be the dealbreaker for me	09:03
crashanddie_mbp	I had a prototype uSD card where basically I used a control file and another keepalive file, to which I would write/read commands	09:03
DocScrutinizer-8	I know a phone with triple sim	09:03
lucent	if it makes and receives calls, then I will be very happy with it	09:04
cehteh	actually i hope to see the gps (without network) fixed before my device arrives	09:04
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cehteh	how much power draws the gps btw?	09:04
DocScrutinizer-8	hog	09:04
cehteh	damn	09:05
DocScrutinizer-8	though YMMV	09:05
cehteh	well, i want gps running with light use for 6-8hours at least .. and preferably no agps but standalone	09:06
cehteh	if that doesnt work i send it back	09:07
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cehteh	already having no compass demotivated me	09:07
lucent	tough to please, eh	09:08
johnx	cehteh, "GPS running" as in recording a track? or is "standby" ok, where it will get a fix in a couple seconds?	09:08
t_s_o	want to jump on the AR fad?	09:08
DocScrutinizer-8	johnx: exactly the point	09:08
cehteh	johnx: fix in standlone mode seems to be broken ... partly due the crappy gps chip they use, partly due software problems	09:09
cehteh	and that they dont open the specs so that anyone hacks around the software problems is really disgusting	09:09
johnx	cehteh, so you're planning to be using GPS without a net connection 6-8 hours every day?	09:09
johnx	do you live on a mountain?	09:09
DocScrutinizer-8	nah, it probably just takes a bit longer and needs better signal for first fix	09:09
johnx	DocScrutinizer-8, nah. it's pretty unlikely to get a fix without a net connection, it seems	09:10
cehteh	johnx: where i live i dont need gps .. but when on vacation in mountains on some foreign country yes then i need exactly that	09:10
DocScrutinizer-8	johnx: bummer	09:11
johnx	cehteh, cancel your order	09:11
cehteh	guess so	09:11
cehteh	well i keep it up for now and wait ... maybe someone has a idea/fix	09:11
johnx	some people have been working on some way to pre-cache the information needed	09:11
cehteh	yeah .. success so far?	09:11
johnx	nothing yet	09:12
cehteh	i seen that but didnt seen results	09:12
johnx	if you think that there will be a 100% solution soon and you'll be possed if there isn't, then you should probably just avoid it	09:12
RST38h	ah, ehlo johnx	09:12
johnx	mornin' RST38h	09:12
cehteh	and really isnt that the normal use case for gps that you need it when you are not at home but in some rual area, prolly in some foreign country	09:12
* johnx attempts to 'manage expectations'		09:12
cehteh	where you dont have net at all or at best expensive data roaming?	09:13
johnx	a pre-paid sim might do the trick	09:13
johnx	you'd have to see on a case-by-case basis	09:13
cehteh	and a pocket-cell tower for the areas where there is no net at all	09:13
johnx	but if you're hiking in mountains, relying on a phone GPS...well, maybe you can afford a standalone GPS with money from the Darwin award you get	09:14
* RST38h does not understand what the problem is		09:14
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RST38h	N900 does not work with external BT GPS units?	09:14
DocScrutinizer-8	heh, AGPS is just to cache or get just in time the data of ephem and almanac from net, but every GPS chipset can download the full data from sat in max 12 min	09:14
johnx	RST38h++ :)	09:14
cehteh	yes i just liked the idea to have all in one device, its a toy anyways	09:14
lucent	wow, so I should probably keep my GPSlim236 around	09:15
cehteh	RST38h: yes it does .. i know some people who use BT GPS and a n800	09:15
johnx	$20 and a tiny dongle to carry is a pretty small price to pay when you need GPS	09:15
lucent	now there's a good reason why I bought it years ago ;)	09:15
cehteh	but its really a shame that doesnt work	09:15
cehteh	and you have 2 devices to charge and carry .. BT draws power too and still no compass	09:16
DocScrutinizer-8	RST38h: sure it does - at least it claims to do	09:16
johnx	I'd actually be willing to bet that using a BT GPS draws less power out of the N900 than using it's internal GPS	09:17
cehteh	i wonder if gps or bt draws more power ... prolly gps because of a lot calculations	09:17
cehteh	yeah	09:17
DocScrutinizer-8	johnx: yep	09:17
cehteh	bt should draw much less power than wlan too or?	09:18
johnx	also: RST38h was being sarcastic I do believe :)	09:18
* cehteh thinks about networking over bt instead wlan when my laptop is in reach		09:19
DocScrutinizer-8	cehteh: depends on WLAN mode: 10mW or 100mW	09:19
johnx	it really doesn't	09:19
johnx	what it does depend on is ad-hoc vs infrastructure	09:19
cehteh	does it adjust automatically?	09:19
cehteh	well infrastructure here .. with powermanagement	09:20
johnx	it sleeps when it's not transmitting/receiving, but only if it's in infrastructure mode	09:20
cehteh	i know	09:20
DocScrutinizer-8	yep	09:20
johnx	OTOH, running at 10mW is likely to end up with the client retransmitting due to dropped frames (or so says some guy at Nokia on a message board long ago)	09:21
DocScrutinizer-8	more precise it's sending "beacons" all the time in adhoc	09:21
cehteh	doesnt it adjust power automatically?	09:22
DocScrutinizer-8	nope	09:22
cehteh	eww	09:22
cehteh	all wlan devices i know are capable of that	09:22
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DocScrutinizer-8	hmm	09:22
DocScrutinizer-8	never heard of	09:22
johnx	uhm, it adjusts to off	09:22
johnx	that's just about the best power adjustment you can get really	09:22
cehteh	hey you get S/N ratio .. if its going bad you increase transmit power	09:23
cehteh	thats not rocket science	09:23
cehteh	iirc in infrastructure mode the access point can tell clients when their signal is too weak	09:23
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DocScrutinizer-8	there's no quality-of-transmission feedback from AP to client	09:24
cehteh	are you 100% sure?	09:24
DocScrutinizer-8	no	09:24
cehteh	iirc there is	09:24
RST38h	cehteh: Then N900 GPS shortcomings are unpleasant but not a show stopper	09:24
RST38h	Nothing to whine about for so long	09:24
cehteh	RST38h: for me its very close to a show stopper	09:25
johnx	cehteh, DocScrutinizer: [*] citation needed :)	09:25
cehteh	i guess thats everyones personal decision	09:25
johnx	cehteh, just make sure that whatever you get instead of an N900 actually does what you think it does	09:25
cehteh	i already expected a compass .. which i now decided 'maybe i go without it'	09:25
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DocScrutinizer-8	johnx: for what exactly? :-)	09:25
johnx	DocScrutinizer-8, for the "AP sends quality of received frame" thing. You both recalled differently	09:26
DocScrutinizer-8	in N810 there's a option 10/100mW	09:26
DocScrutinizer-8	in N900 too iirc	09:26
cehteh	johnx: well there is no direct alternative .. i dont need a phone that urgendly, but a tablet, camera (small always with me) and a gps in combination, running on a free OS have no competition currently	09:27
johnx	in the N810 it was for local FCC-type compliance	09:27
DocScrutinizer-8	the QoS thing is just from monitor mode and bisecting every packet	09:27
RST38h	cehteh: http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/products_list.jsp?pno=2	09:27
DocScrutinizer-8	personal experience	09:27
cehteh	RST38h: yes i know these dongles	09:28
johnx	DocScrutinizer-8, yeah. I was just trying to be funny, since you both said opposite things. think nothing of it :)	09:28
cehteh	its just a shame that the n900's gps is that crappy and no compass, thats what i am whine about	09:28
RST38h	they are not dongles, no wires	09:29
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DocScrutinizer-8	edit connection accept accept... extended settings other	09:30
DocScrutinizer-8	WLAN power: 10 / 100mW	09:30
DocScrutinizer-8	on N900 exactly same as on N810	09:31
cehteh	no other steps 30 50 70 mw?	09:32
johnx	yup. Knew about that for a while. I was referring to the other thing: about the AP not sending back info on quality to the client	09:32
DocScrutinizer-8	nope	09:32
johnx	cehteh, it's an FCC compliance thing	09:32
johnx	it's not for power saving purposes	09:33
cehteh	ok	09:33
cehteh	well 10mW are unuseable unless you are really next to the AP	09:33
DocScrutinizer-8	strange, as the 11 vs 13chan is done hidden from user	09:34
cehteh	TX power: 15 dBm (31.62 mW)	09:34
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: depends on location	09:34
cehteh	iirc channel 13 is Japan only	09:34
cehteh	dunno about 11	09:34
DocScrutinizer-8	nah, germany as well iirc	09:34
cehteh	nope germany not for sure	09:35
cehteh	i am in germany :)	09:35
johnx	I think Japan actually gets 13 or 14	09:35
cehteh	heh you too :P	09:35
johnx	one more than the N800 supported at least :)	09:35
cehteh	channel 13 is illegal here even if some devices export it	09:35
cehteh	so my laptop adjusts power level for TX	09:36
cehteh	iwconfig eth0 txpower auto	09:36
DocScrutinizer	13 2,472 Europa, Japan	09:36
DocScrutinizer	http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLAN#Frequenzen_und_Kan.C3.A4le	09:36
* lucent notices nobody has made a riff on 4chan		09:36
johnx	lucent, in my case at least, I like to pretend it doesn't exist most of the time :)	09:38
lucent	yeah I'm kind of browsing it at "I heard from so-and-so at work the other day" distance	09:38
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Sargun	how do I add another photosharing service?	09:56
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andre__	Sargun, like?	10:11
Sargun	smugmug	10:11
andre__	as a user? as a developer?	10:11
Sargun	developer	10:11
andre__	Sargun, for an easier life: wait a few weeks until bug 6177 will be resolved. for the hackish way: check out the code diffs in bug 5300.	10:13
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6177 Consider pushing sharing-dialog-dev to nokia-binaries to encourage developer usage of sharing dialog	10:13
povbot`	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager	10:13
andre__	I also hope that something's written about it in http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide	10:14
Myrtti	would anyone want to do me a small, small, veryvery small widget? It needs to do have one button and two functions	10:19
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Proteous	the button would be labled "bacon"	10:20
Proteous	the two functions would be to produce bacon and coffee	10:20
Myrtti	one of the functions is "reset" and the other is that when the widget is tapped, the number on it increases by one.	10:20
Proteous	most awesome widget ever	10:20
Myrtti	reset would naturally reset the counter to 0	10:20
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Myrtti	I'm sure there is several usecases for such a counter, but I'd need it for my knitting to keep track of the rows of stiches I've done, or tens of stiches made	10:22
Myrtti	or I'll just learn python/whatever and do it myself...	10:23
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Ashenburg	any of you familiar with drnoksnes? is there a way to edit the controller layout?	10:29
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Myrtti	meh. I'm looking at pygtk tutorial and hating it already	10:38
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RST38h	Ladies and gentlemen! I am happy to announce that thanks to Clive Crous, Vulture's Eye works perfectly on N900 now	10:44
RST38h	Just needs some packaging.	10:45
jiiv	woot! um...what's that?	10:45
Ashenburg	sweet, I never tried nethack :)	10:45
jiiv	oh, it's a nethack? excellent.	10:45
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pekuja	a graphical version	10:48
jiiv	oh...i'm not sure how i feel about that.	10:48
pekuja	I'm sure the text version works just fine too	10:48
jiiv	kk :)	10:49
pekuja	but then maybe on a small device you would want some sort of GUI	10:49
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pekuja	but I suppose the keyboard works pretty well for nethack too	10:49
jiiv	it seems to. i have one (dungeon crawl i think?) on my 810 and it's fine for me.	10:49
jiiv	should hopefully receive my n900 this week some time.	10:50
pekuja	it's Sunday	10:50
pekuja	oh, you live in the part of the world where Sunday starts the week	10:50
jiiv	yes :)	10:50
pekuja	I'm hoping to get mine next week ;-)	10:50
pekuja	which starts tomorrow	10:50
pekuja	but I don't really know.	10:51
jiiv	best of luck with that :) dell apparently finally shipped mine friday, but i still have no tracking information. :/	10:51
pekuja	Dell sells them?	10:51
pekuja	weird	10:51
jiiv	i haven't been excited about a new device in years, but now i'm like a kid waiting on christmas presents.	10:51
jiiv	they just resell for nokia, i believe.	10:52
jiiv	they had an excellent deal on november 5th, so i preordered through them.	10:52
pekuja	:-)	10:53
pekuja	how much was it?	10:53
jiiv	i believe it was $473 US, or something close to that after shipping and tax.	10:54
pekuja	not bad	10:54
pekuja	I ordered mine from my operator	10:54
jiiv	well, won't be bad if it ever arrives. :/ i'd started doubting that.	10:54
jiiv	oh? who do you use?	10:54
pekuja	it comes to about 550 euros during two years	10:54
pekuja	Saunalahti	10:54
jiiv	i'll pretend i know who that is. :) where do you live?	10:55
pekuja	I know some people who ordered from them have already received their devices	10:55
pekuja	which is encouraging	10:55
pekuja	Finland	10:55
jiiv	i'd figured so...it looked Finnish, but i'm not terribly familiar with it.	10:55
pekuja	:-)	10:56
pekuja	they're a smaller operator here anyways	10:56
jiiv	yes, having people who ordered from the same place receive their devices is both encouraging and terribly annoying...several people who ordered from dell after i did ended up getting them a couple weeks ago. :/	10:56
jiiv	ah. none of our operators are selling them yet over here.	10:56
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Ashenburg	RST38h: how do you play VE? with the keyboard or can you use the touchscreen?	10:57
RST38h	touchscreen	10:57
Ashenburg	nice!	10:57
jiiv	whoa, i just saw some screenshots of vulture's eye. that is sort of neat.	10:57
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jiiv	i believe it's about my bedtime, have a great evening. good luck on getting your n900, pekuja.	11:01
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Sargun	does it do doom yet?	11:02
pekuja	well, it does Quake 3	11:08
pekuja	dunno about Doom	11:08
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lucent	I pre-ordered N900 from Amazon when it was 519.99 usd and received notice that it might ship 2009-12-11 or later	11:09
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lucent	it's only mildly inconvenient since I can't get a screen protector for it any earlier than that anyhow	11:10
pekuja	I think I'll just get a case of some sort for it	11:12
pekuja	like the one that came with N810	11:12
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lucent	oh and I'm in the USA so getting the Nokia CP321 case for the N900 ... had to go to eBay for that	11:13
lucent	UK seller that ships internationally	11:13
pekuja	the CP321 looks nice	11:13
pekuja	I'll probably get one of those	11:14
pekuja	can you attach that to a belt or something though?	11:14
pekuja	looks like just a plain case	11:14
lucent	it's just an official slip case	11:16
lucent	I need something to keep it from getting whacked when riding in my backpack	11:17
lucent	zagg invisibleshield + slip case... for now	11:17
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pekuja	I'd like a belt clip case	11:20
pekuja	but the slip case might be fine too	11:20
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lucent	belt clips _never_ work well for me	11:20
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lucent	always end up in a dropped phone	11:20
pekuja	I haven't really used them to be honest	11:21
pekuja	perhaps slip case + pocket is better	11:21
lucent	oh, well I'm not totally advising against using a belt clip	11:21
pekuja	I just have my current phone in my pocket without any case	11:21
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lucent	just that if you do, expect to toast your phone every now and then and buy / reimburse a new one	11:21
lucent	if work pays for the phone, belt clip is much more convenient	11:22
lucent	have them buy you a new one when it meets the impending doom	11:22
pekuja	hah	11:23
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pekuja	maybe you're right	11:23
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flux	does anyone have a link to the osso-xterm keymap bindings list? I've lost my link.. apparently it's not in its sources either, nor in gtk/gdk?	11:32
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flux	I suppose I just suck at searching, because it's this that finally decodes the values: gdk_keyval_from_name(key_start)	11:41
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flux	ah, of course the map must be in gdk sources, not in its dev-headers	11:42
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johnx	~lart XDMCP for being a PITA	11:49
* infobot pulls out his louisville slugger and uses XDMCP's head to break the homerun record for being a PITA		11:49
SpeedEvil	lucent: on the stupid hacks front.	11:50
SpeedEvil	lucent: I currently have cling film as my screen protector.	11:50
SpeedEvil	lucent: breath on the display, then carefully stretch film across one broad edge of screen, and lower it down onto screen, while keeping film taught.	11:51
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GAN900	Morning, everybody.	11:52
SpeedEvil	Then trim with scissors, and apply a 4mm line of tape around it.	11:52
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Meizirkki	morning GAN900	11:52
Stskeeps	GAN900: how's bcn so far?	11:52
SpeedEvil	few bubbles if you do it right, and lasts OK with the stylus. fingernails can tear	11:52
cehteh	eww :P	11:53
GAN900	Stskeeps, amazing	11:53
johnx	I don't think I ever did end up with any scratches in my N800's screen	11:53
* cehteh usually used cold laminator foil, for the n900 i now brought a screen protector for the first time		11:53
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cehteh	.. well still waiting for the device :P	11:54
Stskeeps	GAN900: still think maemo is going to hell? :P	11:54
johnx	GAN900, good thing you got your passport, eh?	11:54
SpeedEvil	cehteh: I have a protector on order too.	11:54
Myrtti	what version of ubuntu should I have to install maemo 5 sdk?	11:54
Myrtti	would hardy do? I'd prefer it because it's lts	11:54
cehteh	applying the cold laminator foil with destilled water and isopropanole mixture, no bubbles, but takes a few days to settle	11:55
Mek	I'm running hardy and never had problems with the maemo 5 sdk, so should work	11:55
Myrtti	and no, I don't want to read the documentation. I've done that for the past 6 months.	11:55
Myrtti	:-D	11:55
cehteh	i have some for years on some devices now	11:55
Myrtti	Mek: thanks.	11:55
cehteh	some quite scratched .. maybe i shall reapply a new one on my gps for example :P	11:56
GAN900	Stskeeps, well, not in the 2-months-ago context, but not sure about Maemo 6.	11:56
GAN900	Was out until 4 AM last night with a bunch of people	11:56
GAN900	I'm done today. <_<	11:57
flux	the keymap url in case anyone else has use for it: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/gtk+/gdk/gdkkeysyms.h	11:58
SpeedEvil	proper screen protectors these days have the soft silicone backing which just sticks	11:58
SpeedEvil	gently	11:58
Myrtti	SpeedEvil: and would last in my use about a week	11:58
thomastp	cehteh: where did you buy screen protector for n900 ?	11:59
SpeedEvil	Myrtti: ?	11:59
SpeedEvil	ebay!	11:59
cehteh	some internet shop .. i already regret it, way to expensive and they spamed me already	11:59
SpeedEvil	http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=n900&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories	11:59
cehteh	google around there are plenty	12:00
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Myrtti	OMFG! OMFG! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-PINK-HYBRID-HARD-COVER-RUBBER-CASE-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ150394071202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item23042f68a2	12:00
Myrtti	PINKKKKKK	12:00
SpeedEvil	I got http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOKIA-N900-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-HARD-CASE-SCREEN-PROTECTOR_W0QQitemZ190353399122QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item2c51f25d52	12:00
SpeedEvil	Unsure how well it will work	12:00
GAN900	johnx, yes.	12:00
SpeedEvil	:)	12:00
Clok	http://phantomskinz.com/nokian900.aspx not very expensive cover	12:01
GAN900	Anybody see the updated http://maemo.org/support page?	12:01
Myrtti	then of course, I need a N900.	12:01
Myrtti	and I just spent my budget for shopping stuff for three months yesterday	12:01
cehteh	i got a DuraSec HighTec .. but it feels rubberish, not even sure how it performs on the real device	12:02
Myrtti	I bloody well hope the mattress will take some of my back pain away	12:02
cehteh	its quite thick so it might give good protection .. to be seen	12:02
Gadgetoid	my god, do you guys ever sleep	12:02
Myrtti	Gadgetoid: timezones, ever heard?	12:02
Gadgetoid	i want an N900 case with a non crappy stand built in	12:02
Myrtti	2009-12-06 12:02:31	12:02
johnx	GAN900, Looks nice. I'm almost sure the "Talk forums" link shouldn't point to "http://internettablettalk.com" though	12:02
johnx	Gadgetoid, we don't sleep. We wait.	12:02
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Clok	are those rubber cases any good?	12:03
Gadgetoid	what are you waiting for johnx?	12:03
cehteh	wait until my case is finished ... :)	12:03
Myrtti	after I'm done with my Christmas present knitting, I'll knit a pouch for my N800	12:04
cehteh	did i saied that i need the device first? :P	12:04
johnx	Gadgetoid, waiting for my shiny new laptop to ship (or for them to tell me they won't ship it. either one really)	12:04
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GAN900	johnx, ah, oops. I blame Dave. ;)	12:05
Gadgetoid	johnx i had that with the core i7 imac	12:05
GAN900	Also, the "Contributing to the wiki" article.	12:05
johnx	Gadgetoid, yeah, thing is that I'm kinda worried the price they posted was an accident and I'm not sure if they'll honor it...	12:07
Gadgetoid	and the n900.. i never really believed theyd honor the cheeky discounts	12:07
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Gadgetoid	there's a toyota starlet wheel in my back garden... i feel so chavvy	12:08
johnx	Gadgetoid, keen. what year?	12:08
GAN900	Our fearless leader is really good at ordering tapas.	12:08
Myrtti	god i need that widget	12:09
Termana	Gadgetoid - bit old discussion, but still - don't let any of these people fool you, they are vampires, they stay up till 4 in the morning and then hide away from the sun all day	12:09
johnx	god I need a tapa	12:09
Myrtti	I've miscalculated my rows again :-(	12:09
Gadgetoid	I'm a curry man	12:09
Myrtti	this will end up a shitty beret	12:09
johnx	Termana, yeah. I hide away at work, though actually my coworkers make me keep the blinds closed so they don't get glare on their screens ... hmmm	12:09
Gadgetoid	sound about rightt termana... timezones are a poor excuse	12:10
Termana	Myrtti: Gadgetoid's curry?	12:10
Gadgetoid	hahaha	12:10
Gadgetoid	ring burn	12:10
Myrtti	Termana: :-(	12:10
flux	recently there was some demo about synchronizing pc firefox with the n900 browser, anyone have an url handy?	12:10
johnx	Myrtti, don't feel bad. I've had really poor luck making curry into any decent sort of hat. :\|	12:10
Gadgetoid	flux real geeks remember all the important urls	12:11
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flux	gadgetoid, yes :(	12:11
Myrtti	meh. I'm trying to knit a christmas present to my sister and I need a row counter :-/	12:11
Myrtti	you're no fun	12:11
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, I did some tests with GPS and it's mostly behaving great. With and w/o AGPS net download. I,d dare to say it's obviously storing the seed data and reuses it on next start. Nevertheless I had a really hard time to put it to work when zthat data was "old" and network connectivity was supposed to be there but had stalled.	12:11
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johnx	DocScrutinizer-8, yup. the problem is when it only has data to work with that's more than, say, half a day old	12:12
Gadgetoid	flux mainly because most of them contain a small subset of related words... such as wet, teens, nubile, win	12:12
johnx	and especially if you've moved a good distance since your last fix	12:12
johnx	flux, was it about fennec?	12:13
flux	johnx, ah, I think it was	12:13
johnx	http://lifehacker.com/5159079/firefox-mobile-aka-fennec-will-sync-tabs-with-firefox-on-your-desktop	12:13
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, that's kinda known common problem with all GPS. you can confuse hell out of chipset when uploading "wrong" data to it	12:14
Gadgetoid	sync tabs?	12:14
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, you know the filename of the seed file?	12:15
SpeedEvil	johnx: ""	12:15
johnx	DocScrutinizer-8, nope. look in /var maybe?	12:15
DocScrutinizer51	tried	12:15
DocScrutinizer51	maybe I'm too tired	12:16
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Gadgetoid	cafeworld is retarded	12:16
johnx	Gadgetoid, a world where the only businesses are cafes?	12:16
johnx	I'd put on some weight there, for sure	12:17
Gadgetoid	the facebook game, designed to draw gameplay over long and agonizing hours which you spend wholly alone instead of in an immersive social environment like world of warcraft	12:18
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, I,d suggest to check internet connectivity prior to gps start. if no ping: delete too old file and disable network support setting for gps	12:18
johnx	Gadgetoid, huh. is it anything like working at a cafe?	12:18
flux	johnx, thank you. although it's not as useful as I hoped, as it'd also require switching to that browser..	12:19
johnx	DocScrutinizer51, I'm actually trying to abuse lsof into cluing me in on what happens when I get an assisted fix	12:19
johnx	haven't caught it in the act yet though	12:19
Gadgetoid	no johnx... it totally lacks hot, coffee drinking chicks	12:19
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, I'm not sure if that,ll pan out. probably short read and closing file	12:20
Gadgetoid	i'm drinking ceylon tea because i watched too much battlestar	12:20
johnx	Gadgetoid, but does it include a simulation of deepfrying hashbrowns and french fries, leaving you with the smell of grease permanently embedded in your skin?	12:20
Gadgetoid	no johnx... it doesnt seem to	12:21
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, I tried to find new files (mdate) __ fail	12:21
Gadgetoid	words for the morning: i made a poo daddy	12:21
johnx	Gadgetoid, well, then it could be worse. you at least get minimum wage for playing, right?	12:21
johnx	DocScrutinizer-8, interesting, I was about to use a much more crude version of that same tactic	12:22
tigert	woop	12:22
tigert	new gpodder in repo	12:22
Stskeeps	woo	12:22
johnx	tigert, doom upside down?	12:22
tigert	some new stuff we worked on yesterday	12:22
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, anyway I think without any file chipset is better off than with "wrong" one	12:22
tigert	johnx: :) ¡ɯɐuʇǝıʌ 'ƃuıuɹoɯ pooƃ	12:23
tigert	not everything we sketched is in the new release yet though	12:23
Gadgetoid	no johnx... i would lose money opotentially... it makes no sense!	12:23
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, and not even trying to access internet is clearly better than waiting for response never to come	12:23
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johnx	Gadgetoid, I have a better game for you then. It doesn't pay any money either, but you get to sit at my desk and answer support tickets for 8 hours, 5 days a week. interested?	12:24
johnx	DocScrutinizer51, you really think it's blocking trying to access the net?	12:24
johnx	that'd be pretty silly	12:24
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, I suspect that, yes	12:25
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johnx	huh. maybe there is hope for improving it with some simple hacks then...	12:25
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Gadgetoid_iMac	hell no johnx, I left "tech requests" behind when I was made redundant	12:27
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, yeah. like I suggested above	12:28
Gadgetoid_iMac	And then turned from being a DotNet developer to a PHP developer overnight	12:28
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johnx	Gadgetoid_iMac, is that change a good thing or bad thing?	12:28
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DocScrutinizer51	johnx, first test: disable network support in gps setup prior to starting it with a obsolete data	12:29
DocScrutinizer51	simple	12:29
Gadgetoid_iMac	johnx, it's simultaneously good and bad... but at least it's for a company that does both DotNet and PHP so I can bounce merrily from language to language like a sexually confused emo	12:29
johnx	DocScrutinizer-8, disable...how?	12:30
* Gadgetoid_iMac looks up how best to cook bacon roast chicken		12:30
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johnx	Gadgetoid_iMac, well that sounds ... convenient?	12:31
Gadgetoid_iMac	johnx, Yeah I had the new job before I even volunteered redundancy at my last one, which I'd been secretly willing to make me redundant for the best part of a year... what a lovely recession!	12:31
Gadgetoid_iMac	And self employment means I get a tax refund on the cost of my tools... which just so happen to be computers... aaaah!	12:32
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, setup location network	12:32
johnx	it was the best of recessions, it was the worst of recessions?	12:32
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Gadgetoid_iMac	the *blurst of recessions	12:32
DocScrutinizer51	johnx, directly above field for AGPS server url	12:33
johnx	ah! I didn't know that was exposed in the GUI	12:34
johnx	madness	12:34
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DocScrutinizer51	:-)	12:35
Gadgetoid_iMac	I can't even test AGPS without a SIM weeps	12:35
DocScrutinizer51	found GPAjinni a great testtool	12:35
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I had some anomolous results.	12:36
DocScrutinizer51	which	12:36
DocScrutinizer51	go ahead	12:36
SpeedEvil	Which looked like the GPS timing out after a minute and a bit if it diddn't get a lock, with only gspjinni	12:36
SpeedEvil	with teh location applet open too, it worked better	12:37
DocScrutinizer51	hmm	12:37
DocScrutinizer51	can't reproduce	12:37
SpeedEvil	I need to do more testing - but need to wait for the fix to get stal	12:37
* Gadgetoid_iMac wants GPSD so his N900 can serve his netbook via his MiFi		12:37
Gadgetoid_iMac	MiFi GPS enabling software STILL hasn't arrived	12:38
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pekuja	MiFi?	12:38
Gadgetoid_iMac	Mobile wifi router, pekuja	12:39
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil, find the file. Delete it ;-)	12:39
SpeedEvil	yeah - that	12:39
SpeedEvil	I need to work out how to install proper findutils	12:39
DocScrutinizer51	>xxx; gpsjinni; find / -newer xxx	12:40
sejo	hey all can someone tell me what repo to use best? (using fremantle and diablo)	12:40
Gadgetoid_iMac	I've written a PHP ajax framework that kinda emulates update panels in a way	12:41
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Gadgetoid_iMac	sejo I've been throwing stuff from extras-devel on my device like it's going out of fashion, and no problem syet	12:41
lardman	morning	12:41
Gadgetoid_iMac	mplayer -framedrop porn.avi ftw!	12:41
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sejo	Gadgetoid: and is that the fremantle or the diablo?	12:42
sejo	Gadgetoid: does it have skype?	12:42
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil, ^ this basically works	12:42
SpeedEvil	ah	12:42
Gadgetoid_iMac	Err, you want to avoid diablo- although much of it will work the UI will be agonisingly difficult to use	12:42
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johnx	sejo, what device do you have?	12:42
Gadgetoid_iMac	Of course I assume you've got an N900	12:43
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sejo	johnx: n900	12:45
lardman	does dh_install in dh5 support the -X flag?	12:45
Gadgetoid_iMac	Then avoid diablo, sejo, unless there's an application you absolutely must have	12:46
johnx	sejo, you probably don't want to use diablo repositories	12:46
johnx	the device comes with skype voice chat, and AFAIK, there is no skype video released yet	12:46
Gadgetoid_iMac	I added diablo for FBReader, for example, but it's already been dropped unmodified into fremantle	12:46
sejo	so fremantle it is?	12:46
johnx	yes	12:46
Gadgetoid_iMac	And I can't seem to find the magical way of binding keys that everyone else has found in FBReader	12:46
sejo	johnx: well here skype says it's enabled but can't get it online?	12:47
johnx	the repositories available are: extras (safest), extras-testing (alpha, beta, unstable stuff) and extras-devel (potentially very b0rken stuff)	12:47
johnx	sorry. no idea why skype isn't working for you	12:47
Gadgetoid_iMac	Worst extras can do, in my opinion, is fill up my filesystem with orphaned shit	12:47
Gadgetoid_iMac	extras-devel, even	12:48
kynky	mozilla repository, nokia repository, nokia system update repository, then some user repositries	12:48
johnx	Gadgetoid_iMac, or put an init script in that makes your device fail to boot, forcing a reflash	12:48
Gadgetoid_iMac	johnx hasn't happened yet... fingers crossed	12:48
Gadgetoid_iMac	But that's not bad, a reflash clears out the crud anyway!	12:49
johnx	Gadgetoid_iMac, just saying. Don't suggest that new users all go out and enable extras-testing and extras-devel	12:49
lardman	I suppose devs should just try pushing more stuff to -testing once it's not killing devices, so users can try it out	12:49
kynky	df -h is handy in xterm	12:49
pekuja	extremely	12:49
Gadgetoid_iMac	johnx, I think they should, and if they brick their device and ebay it, we've struck down a noob in furious vengeance! mwahaha	12:49
lardman	btw, what happens when I upgrade a package, do I need to push it to -testing again?	12:49
RST38h	yes	12:50
lardman	even if it's mine?	12:50
kynky	always needs to be tested i assume, new version migt have diff bugs	12:50
RST38h	and it has to be voted upon again	12:50
lardman	yeah, ok	12:50
Gadgetoid_iMac	But, unfortunately, some genius decides to stick a gsm radio in the n900, making it freakin' noob central	12:50
johnx	Gadgetoid_iMac, great attitude :/	12:50
Ashenburg	hehe is rootfs the disk you're not suppose to fill up?	12:51
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lardman	root filesystem, yes	12:51
kynky	gsm radio is well handy, 3.5g data pretty good for connectivity	12:51
Ashenburg	no more installs for a while then, it's at 95% :p	12:51
lardman	works well for me	12:51
johnx	Ashenburg, yeah. the root fs, aka '/'	12:51
lardman	Ashenburg: :)	12:51
Gadgetoid_iMac	johnx, hell yes :) death to noobs!	12:52
kynky	Ashenburg, sometimes a reboot clears space, but dont rely on it	12:52
lardman	Gadgetoid_iMac: Although I would probably agree with your sentiment, this is supposed to be a fairly mainstream device, not something sold with a warning that you must hack	12:52
lardman	therefore, users need to be protected from dangerous things	12:52
Dantonic	is there a way to turn off GSM only and keep the wifi connection on the N900?	12:53
lardman	tho I also scoff at children having to hold their mothers' hands when crossing the road, how will they ever learn! ;)	12:53
lardman	Dantonic: take out the sim?	12:53
Dantonic	other than that	12:53
Dantonic	lardman,	12:53
sejo	someone got witter working?	12:53
Dantonic	idk a command to turn it off maybe?	12:54
kynky	xda-developer community for htc phones hich are so called mainstream devices, was a very hackish community	12:54
lardman	Dantonic: there probably is one, I don't know it though	12:54
* sejo needs to setup a 32bit vbox so he can develop an iednti.ca client		12:54
Ashenburg	fantastic, it's down to 80% now, rebooting did the trick. Cheers :)	12:54
kynky	Dantonic, you can take sim card out of n900, but on n900 i have it so it only automatically connects to wifi networks	12:54
johnx	kynky, yup. but there was a "hacker" community and more regular forums I'd imagine. Since maemo is all in one place we do need to be a little conscious of new users	12:55
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kynky	Ashenburg, mine is on 80%, about 40mb free, which is what im told is about normal	12:55
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Dantonic	kynky, I would like the option to turn the GSM radio off all together, IT would be handy in the event that I want my phone offline, but still want to use the device to browse the internet at home for example	12:56
kynky	johnx not a problem wit that, just sometimes a bit frustrating to get info, just needs more searching skills :)	12:56
DocScrutinizer51	actually THATS freaky. No way to switch modem separately	12:56
lardman	for the Android/etc devices you have to distribute your app via their store, which would tend to mean your apps work	12:58
DocScrutinizer51	Dantonic, at least you can skip the pin dialog. this will dgive you gsm offline	12:58
johnx	kynky, it's just important to add a little disclaimer before suggesting that someone get root and go around running rm -rf /foo or enabling extras-devel, and redpill mode and replacing system libs	12:58
sejo	johnx: do you have a skype login button? I only see a save	12:58
kynky	you can easily switch between connections	12:58
Gadgetoid_iMac	lardman nobody in IRC can really be THAT big a noob anyway, this isn't Palringo	12:58
johnx	sejo, I don't use skype	12:58
lardman	we're not talking about irc though, we're talking about TMO probably	12:59
lardman	or perhaps we are talking about irc	12:59
lardman	in any case people need to know what they're getting into	12:59
johnx	Gadgetoid_iMac, it's not like it takes more than 20 characters to add a little warning	12:59
Dantonic	DocScrutinizer51, the pin dialog?	12:59
lardman	e.g. If I'd come from an Android bg, I might have no clue about being able to break things with my install, etc	12:59
Gadgetoid_iMac	What, johnx, and wear the letters off my keyboard!?	12:59
lardman	but I could well still use irc	12:59
johnx	Gadgetoid_iMac, letters on keyboards are for n00bs :D	13:00
johnx	like training wheels on a motorcycle	13:00
DocScrutinizer51	Dantonic, some sim needs a pin	13:00
Gadgetoid_iMac	johnx touche, but the no letters keyboard doesn't have an apple key	13:00
* Gadgetoid_iMac let's that sink in for a minute		13:00
johnx	Gadgetoid_iMac, pssh. Everyone knows Microsoft makes the best keyboards anyways	13:00
Gadgetoid_iMac	Microsoft make bent keyboards... I'll grant them that	13:01
Myrtti	microsoft can do one thing right: hardware	13:01
Dantonic	DocScrutinizer51, oh I see what you mean... but I'm sure there's a way to disable the radio, just by killing some process or somethign?	13:01
Dantonic	I guess I'll wait for someone to come up with it :P	13:02
* johnx looks at his MS "basic" keyboard. Yeah. I've lost most of the color on the left-ctrl as well as lots around WASD and XC		13:02
Gadgetoid_iMac	Not always Myrtti, but the Notebook Mouse 5000 and their new mobile bluetooth keyboard (with separate wireless numpad) are very good	13:02
Dantonic	any of you guys using IRC on the N900? and if so what are you using?	13:02
Ashenburg	irssi	13:02
Gadgetoid_iMac	Case in point: the xbox360, I own two, but they're horrible squashed marshmallows with ungainly huge external power supplies that make too much noise	13:03
johnx	Dantonic, xchat	13:03
Dantonic	hmm johnx I installed xchat but couldn't get it to connect	13:03
DocScrutinizer51	sure there is. send AT+FUN=0 to the modem	13:03
Dantonic	wouldn't connect to server	13:03
ManuelSE	how CAN we monitor network traffic in statusbar?	13:03
Dantonic	I've never used irssi	13:03
DocScrutinizer51	Dantonic, ^	13:04
sejo	LOL I just had tu put myself online in the availability section :p	13:04
ManuelSE	i mean too see if i am downloading	13:04
ManuelSE	helo	13:04
DocScrutinizer51	Dantonic, xchat	13:04
SpeedEvil	I want status light bars.	13:04
Dantonic	DocScrutinizer51, AT+FUN=0 how do I send that to the modem?	13:04
johnx	anyways. time for me to sleep. 'night all	13:04
SpeedEvil	Status light to do that	13:04
ManuelSE	cu	13:04
Gadgetoid_iMac	Sheeesh, I can't believe my 2 year old is demanding a "jacket potato with cheese"	13:04
Dantonic	DocScrutinizer51, is that to kill the gsm radio?	13:04
SpeedEvil	Kids need a highish fat diet	13:05
DocScrutinizer51	Dantonic, if only I knew ;-P	13:05
ManuelSE	hahh	13:05
Dantonic	LOL	13:05
Dantonic	don't mess with me I'll believe anything you say!	13:05
Gadgetoid_iMac	I'm not sure we've got any baking potatoes... i wonder if I could make mini bakies with new potatoes	13:05
Dantonic	:P	13:05
Myrtti	I'll teach mine to eat black pudding á la Tampere	13:05
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Myrtti	if I ever get kids	13:05
DocScrutinizer51	Dantonic, yes somewhat. though there are beteter cmds	13:05
Gadgetoid	aha big potatoes!	13:05
ManuelSE	arent all potatos bakable?	13:06
lardman	some bake better than others	13:06
* SpeedEvil passes Myrtti a net.		13:06
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Myrtti	SpeedEvil: ?	13:06
SpeedEvil	I've never seen a bad baked potato.	13:06
DocScrutinizer51	Dantonic, it,s nbeen suggested modem is at /dev/ttySx	13:06
SpeedEvil	Some are better than others.	13:06
SpeedEvil	Myrtti: To catch them with!	13:06
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lardman	hmm, libgmp is broken in extras-devel, don't try installing it	13:07
SpeedEvil	how broken?	13:07
DocScrutinizer51	also there are reports of ppl actually sending Atcmds to the modem	13:07
lardman	installs to wrong place	13:07
lardman	so pretty terminal	13:08
lardman	dh_install -plibgmp3-dev -Xgmp-mparam.h build/gmp*.h $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/include	13:09
lardman	I think it was that line	13:09
lardman	does the bit at the end tell it where to install inside the package?	13:09
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lardman	in which case that is wrong	13:09
DocScrutinizer51	Dantonic, see trac ticket about USSD / numbers starting with *	13:09
sejo	someone using witter here?	13:10
DocScrutinizer51	bbl	13:10
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lardman	will try this instead dh_install --sourcedir=$(CURDIR)/build -plibgmp3-dev -Xgmp-mparam.h usr/include/gmp*.h	13:10
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lardman	my word QEmu is a cpu hog	13:12
homeasvs_	anyone have an idea how I can work around/fix qemu missing syscall 242 for arm ?	13:12
homeasvs_	it makes my armel build for erlang hang	13:13
lardman	upgrade qemu?	13:13
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lardman	homeasvs_: which sdk are you on?	13:14
lardman	or you can use cpu transparency of course	13:14
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homeasvs_	lardman, fremantle 5.0	13:14
homeasvs_	lardman, for that I need an arm device, right ?	13:14
homeasvs_	lardman, can I then use that to build debs ?	13:14
lardman	yep	13:15
lardman	beagleboard or n900 would do I guess	13:15
lardman	are there no patches to the erlang stuff to avoid using that call?	13:15
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glezos	zerojay, hey! Are you guys having fun there?	13:16
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lardman	actually, and I don;t know what causes that syscall to be used, but you might be able to change the build params to build for e.g. a less specific cpu and get rid	13:16
lardman	you'll need to work out where it's coming from though	13:16
xorAxAx	so, the n900 gps is not usable without net connection?	13:18
tigert	hmm	13:18
GAN900	More photos on flickr.	13:18
xorAxAx	or is it just slower to get a fix? if so, how many minutes?	13:18
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tigert	was Jaffa hacking horizon?	13:18
homeasvs_	lardman, that is my other angle, going to look up what it is first and see where it comes from	13:18
konttori	just slower	13:18
konttori	yeah, jaffa was working on that	13:18
GAN900	xorAxAx, I haven't managed to get one all weekend.	13:18
* tigert has a half day to hack on graphics		13:18
lardman	homeasvs_: ok cool, let us know	13:18
homeasvs_	lardman, it's triggered while running erlc	13:18
xorAxAx	GAN900: OMG	13:19
GAN900	xorAxAx, yeah. :/	13:19
lardman	hey GAN900	13:19
xorAxAx	is it likely that they fix it in a software update?	13:19
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homeasvs_	lardman, I believe erlang is a bytecode language, so possibly I could create a devkit instead, avoiding arm altogether	13:19
GAN900	Hey, lardman.	13:20
Stskeeps	xorAxAx: go vote for the bug	13:20
lardman	you may find that by targeting something other than the default arm11, it will go away	13:20
lardman	GAN900: how's Spain?	13:20
GAN900	lardman, awesome!	13:20
lardman	cool :)	13:20
xorAxAx	Stskeeps: url?	13:20
homeasvs_	lardman, I don't know much about arm, so I don't know how to switch target yet, but I'll look it up	13:20
GAN900	We were out 'til 4 AM last night.	13:20
lardman	probably feels just like home, same language and all ;)	13:20
lardman	oh bloody hell	13:21
GAN900	Ehehe	13:21
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GAN900	Bunch of drunk Maemo folks on the metro.	13:21
GAN900	"It's about the people."	13:21
Stskeeps	xorAxAx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 - i personally think they should 1) allow N810 style AGPS (plot in on a map where you are) or 2) actually caching SUPL data	13:21
povbot`	Bug 5337: Can't get GPS lock without network connection	13:21
tigert	=)	13:21
tigert	GAN900: well, it is =)	13:22
tigert	GAN900: who would put up with this shit without the people? :D	13:22
tigert	sure the gadgets help a bit :)	13:22
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Gadgetoid_iMac	I installed Starcraft on my N810, was getting tired of Diablo	13:23
sejo	what is the resolution for the n900?	13:23
Gadgetoid_iMac	800*480	13:23
sejo	thx	13:23
Stskeeps	Gadgetoid_iMac: i wouldn't mind starcraft on my n810.	13:23
Gadgetoid_iMac	Milestone is 853*something isn't it	13:23
Gadgetoid_iMac	Stskeeps wouldn't that be lovely :D	13:23
ashenburger	seriously? diablo runs on the 810? is the project still alive? (i.e any chance of it seeing a fremantle release)?	13:24
Stskeeps	ashenburger: diablo is maemo 4.1.2	13:24
* Gadgetoid_iMac listens for the sound of his terrible joke wooshing over ashenburger's head		13:24
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GAN900	tigert, no, I agree 100% it's just mildly funny applying that to a bunch of drunk people on themtraon. g	13:26
Gadgetoid_iMac	Implementing a page class in php with an isPostBack function is, perhaps, a little bit sad...	13:26
ashenburger	oops, guess I got a bit carried away there :p	13:26
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ashenburger	I did see a Baldur's Gate on an 810 though :)	13:26
Gadgetoid_iMac	We'd all love Diablo and Starcraft on our portables, Ashenburger... they're one of the holy grail	13:26
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Gadgetoid_iMac	I did an article covering all the lovely games I could get to run on my Samsung NC10, but it's just not pocketable	13:27
tigert	GAN900: yeah, I know	13:27
tigert	I knew you agreed too	13:27
tigert	GAN900: I can imagine the scene very well =)	13:28
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tigert	given the good meal and company at the restaurant earlier :)	13:28
GAN900	Er, s/themtraon/the metro/	13:28
sejo	is there a way to change the wallpaper?	13:28
SpeedEvil	yes	13:28
cehteh	yes	13:28
sejo	and how would that be?	13:29
sejo	:p	13:29
homeasvs_	lardmin, ok, it configures by default for target arm-linux-gnueabi	13:29
homeasvs_	lardman, how can I see a list of alternative targets, and which one would you recommend instead ?	13:29
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SpeedEvil	click on hte empty desktop. Click the 'gear' - click the menu area to get 'change wallpaper'	13:30
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Gadgetoid_iMac	Damn you Disney Channel, damn you, now I want to slip Demi Lovato the sausage too	13:30
tigert	damn	13:30
tigert	BBC is so smart	13:30
tigert	"this podcast is available only in the UK"	13:31
SpeedEvil	Why damn you?	13:31
tigert	so isnt the point of podcasting partly that you can get it when you are travelling	13:31
SpeedEvil	tigert: you should get with the times!	13:31
Gadgetoid_iMac	SpeedEvil, there's only so many 17 year old Disney stars I can have pillows of before my wife gets suspicious	13:32
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SpeedEvil	VPN out of the UK so the government can't log you, VPN in so you can get UK content when abroad.	13:32
tigert	SpeedEvil: yeah :D	13:32
Gadgetoid_iMac	I mean, she raised an eyebrow when I added Zac Efron	13:32
sejo	thx SpeedEvil	13:33
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DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil, found the pickle file?	13:38
Termana	Gadgetoid_iMac: If I was your wife and you put in a Zac Efron pillow - I'd be raising eyebrows as well	13:38
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Gadgetoid_iMac	Termana, I was kidding... it was a Depp pillow	13:39
Termana	Just as bad	13:39
Gadgetoid_iMac	Actually, I wonder if there are Depp pillows... I'm secure enough about my sexuality to want one of those	13:39
Gadgetoid_iMac	Then I can stick my hand inside it, and use it as a Depp puppet	13:40
Termana	But is your wife secure enough of your sexuality?	13:40
Gadgetoid_iMac	"I didn't dutch oven you, it was Depp!"	13:40
Gadgetoid_iMac	That's a good question...	13:40
lardman	this is what happens when people start using Apple products	13:41
homeasvs_	lardman, #define __NR_sched_getaffinity 242 <-- sounds like one I could live without if it is implemented as a noop	13:41
Myrtti	tragedy of my life, my oven baking pan fits only one ready made pizza or pizza base	13:41
lardman	homeasvs_: no idea I'm afraid	13:42
* timeless_mbp pokes people w/ n900s		13:42
Gadgetoid_iMac	That may be true lardman	13:42
lardman	you looking at the qemu source here?	13:42
timeless_mbp	lardman? :)	13:42
lardman	hi timeless_mbp	13:42
homeasvs_	lardman, any idea about the hosts I could use instead of my arm-linux-gbeu one ?	13:42
Gadgetoid_iMac	HAI timeless_mbp!	13:42
timeless_mbp	hello	13:43
timeless_mbp	lardman: so.... got time to play? :)	13:43
lardman	homeasvs_: you might find a later version of qemu, or use the cpu transparency, but you'll need a device then	13:43
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lardman	timeless_mbp: not really, how long will it take?	13:43
ruskie	lo	13:43
lardman	am testing code atm	13:43
Termana	lardman - sounds viable (re: apple products and the discussion) - I'm using OS X at the moment as well	13:43
timeless_mbp	lardman: you can install and use it recreationally	13:43
Gadgetoid_iMac	I'm "working"	13:43
Termana	Gadgetoid_iMac: Working on your communication abilities?	13:44
lardman	timeless_mbp: go on then	13:44
Gadgetoid_iMac	Termana I hope not! I wouldn't be much cop as a "journalist" otherwise, I'm writing some lovely PHP	13:44
homeasvs_	cool, erlang's configure is testing for presence of those syscalls	13:47
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homeasvs_	so if I fake that out, tell it it's not there, I should be able to build	13:47
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Vratha	hello there	13:48
Vratha	just got my n900 and have been playing around with it	13:48
Vratha	pretty spiffy device	13:48
Vratha	still trying to figure out how to tether	13:49
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: no - oddly	13:50
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timeless_mbp	how do i undo a thumbs down?	13:53
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ruskie	I'm trying to roll my own modest package but I'm getting: checking for MODEST_GSTUFF... configure: error: The pkg-config script could not be found or is too old. Make sure it is in your PATH or set the PKG_CONFIG environment variable to the full path to pkg-config. - of course this inside of ...	14:02
ruskie	... scratchbox... I've already succesfully rolled my own zsh and tinymail so not really sure what's wrong...	14:02
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timeless_mbp	is pkg-config installed?	14:02
ruskie	yes	14:02
ruskie	which pkg-config	14:02
ruskie	unless it needs to be somewhere else as well	14:03
Gadgetoid_iMac	Söndagen!	14:03
DocScrutinizer-8	SpeedEvil: noatime, noMtime??	14:03
ruskie	config.log isn't much help in this case... and it's only on MODEST_GSTUFF that it's failing :(	14:03
Vratha	sweet; got the n900 tethering via my mac	14:03
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Gadgetoid_iMac	Bluetooth, Vratha?	14:04
Vratha	nah, usb	14:04
Vratha	don't know how to do it via bt	14:04
Gadgetoid_iMac	OO, even better	14:04
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: and not having time to fiddle with it	14:04
timeless_mbp	so, can someone talk me though the maemo boot sequence? :)	14:04
SpeedEvil	timeless: you pressw th	14:04
SpeedEvil	the button, and it boots	14:04
Vratha	Gadgetoid_iMac: heh, yeah, but i notice t-mobile isn't as fast as when i tried my iphone with a jailbreak	14:04
ashenburger	hmm is there any disadvantages to connecting to an adhoc wifi network? power consumtion being the big issue	14:04
Gadgetoid_iMac	Well, you see some dots, then a handshake... and up comes Maemo... pretty simply really timeless_mbp	14:04
lardman	timeless_mbp: add it to the init.d scripts perhaps?	14:04
Vratha	at&t i guess can claim the speed crown there	14:04
timeless_mbp	lardman: maemo uses upstart afaiu	14:05
lardman	lol	14:05
Gadgetoid_iMac	You said it ashenburger, chews through power like there's no tomorrow	14:05
lardman	oh well	14:05
lardman	same sort of thing I guess though	14:05
Gadgetoid_iMac	Even a dedicated device like the Mifi can only offer internet via Wifi for about 4.5 hours	14:05
timeless_mbp	oh sure	14:05
timeless_mbp	but i probably could figure out init.d :)	14:05
ruskie	Gadgetoid_iMac, I'd say that's due to a poor battery ;)	14:05
DocScrutinizer-8	well there's still /etc/init.d/foo*	14:06
Gadgetoid_iMac	They're 1530mAh batteries ruskie, so you could be right- I've got 3 of 'em though	14:06
timeless_mbp	so...	14:07
ruskie	Gadgetoid_iMac, :) I'd like a an 8kmAh battery for such a device ;)	14:07
timeless_mbp	is it evil to have a script that deletes itself from /etc/init.d/ ? :)	14:07
* ruskie goes back to hammering away at trying to build modest...		14:07
ashenburger	oh well on the upside it looks like the n900 is working, but my wifi router is not :/	14:07
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DocScrutinizer-8	timeless_mbp: can't see severy problems when done correctly	14:08
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timeless_mbp	oh brother	14:09
timeless_mbp	i bet i don't have access to /opt at this point	14:09
Gadgetoid_iMac	I did think, ruskie, that it would be better with a belt clip and a fahookin' massive battery.. there's no real need for it to be small. If you're carrying a freakin' router around to give yourself internet access then you've probably got a good sized bag	14:10
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lardman	timeless_mbp: have spotted a bug in your strings	14:10
lardman	you have "Cell" for "Mobile", the former means nothing	14:11
timeless_mbp	ouch	14:11
timeless_mbp	sad that you're the first person to spot that	14:11
lardman	You've also changed "Work" to "Business", the latter is preferable imo	14:11
timeless_mbp	clearly engb isn't tested heavily	14:11
SpeedEvil	Cellphone is a recognised term	14:12
SpeedEvil	Cell too	14:12
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: it's wrong for engb	14:12
SpeedEvil	but it will get you looked at wierdly.	14:12
timeless_mbp	and i know better	14:12
lardman	Mobile is more normal	14:12
timeless_mbp	lardman: #merl10n please	14:12
Gadgetoid_iMac	"Cell"phone is quite an obtusely technical term for such a ubiquitous gadget	14:12
Gadgetoid_iMac	It's like calling a car, a Combustiontorotarymotionvehicle	14:13
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timeless_mbp	Gadgetoid_iMac: enough	14:13
timeless_mbp	i screwed up. bad merge	14:13
Gadgetoid_iMac	I mean timeless_mbp, we should force americans to say "mobile phone" too!	14:14
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid_iMac: linear, unless you're doing it wrong.	14:14
derf	Gadgetoid_iMac: Good luck with that.	14:14
Gadgetoid_iMac	What can I say SpeedEvil.. I can only drive in circles...	14:14
Gadgetoid_iMac	It's easy derf, we just sneak it in via a new HTML tag	14:14
aquatix	:)	14:15
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Gadgetoid_iMac	Hmm I need a little porting project I can fiddle with on Maemo, I'd probably be in over my head... getting things to work properly on Dingux was pain enough	14:18
SpeedEvil	Gadgetoid: wine+qemu? :)	14:19
Gadgetoid_iMac	Hahaha	14:20
Gadgetoid_iMac	Yeah... starcraft in slideshow mode, that's a worthy goal	14:20
SpeedEvil	Make the keyboard lights flash to indicate network traffic	14:21
SpeedEvil	Or the notification light	14:21
_JP_	port KeePassX, I could really use it :)	14:21
SpeedEvil	'KITT' mode for the keyboard lights. (the 6 lights are independant)	14:21
Gadgetoid_iMac	Really?	14:22
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SpeedEvil	yes.	14:22
SpeedEvil	there are 6 lights across the keyboard all independant.	14:22
Gadgetoid_iMac	Sounds like a register prodding adventure, or something	14:22
SpeedEvil	and with seperate brightnesses	14:22
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SpeedEvil	/sys/class/LED/lp5???/kb	14:22
SpeedEvil	or something like that	14:22
cehteh	hehe i want a capacitative keyboard!	14:22
homeasvs_	is there an up-to-date guide for setting up cpu transparency ? can only find stuff for maemo 4	14:23
cehteh	light by proximity :P	14:23
oops6_4	Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810	14:23
homeasvs_	trying to figure out how to use sbrsh-conf	14:23
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cehteh	what color is the keyboard light?	14:23
SpeedEvil	white	14:23
Gadgetoid_iMac	interesting /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1 - kb6	14:23
Gadgetoid_iMac	HAHAHA	14:24
Gadgetoid_iMac	tw14030:vibrator	14:24
Gadgetoid_iMac	I'm so immature	14:24
cehteh	you can control the vibrators bightness :)	14:24
Gadgetoid_iMac	dare I echo 1 >> brightness ?	14:25
Gadgetoid_iMac	I don't know what the fsck I'm doing	14:25
SpeedEvil	1 doesn't make it vibrate	14:25
SpeedEvil	the threshold on the way up is about 20, and down is about 14	14:26
SpeedEvil	(rotation rather - vibration at this speed cannot be felt)	14:26
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Corsac	sounds like fun	14:26
timeless_mbp	!summon qwerty	14:27
cehteh	you prolly want to tune that to be in resonance with the device mass	14:27
SpeedEvil	You can optimise for accelleration through the accellerometers	14:27
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Gadgetoid_iMac	Lord knows I've probably borked something up now	14:29
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mece	hey	14:33
DocScrutinizer-8	SpeedEvil: your profund knowledge about vibrator behaviour makes me wonder...	14:37
Gadgetoid_iMac	Vibrator brightness, for sharing in the dark	14:38
DocScrutinizer-8	how can you tell without disassembling the device?	14:38
oops6_4	Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 ?	14:38
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: you can hear the pwm driving signal modulated by the motor rotation	14:39
DocScrutinizer-8	SpeedEvil: spoken like a real EE ;-D	14:40
_JP_	I was told that SSHFS is in extras-testing, but I cant find it. Or is it in devel?	14:41
Gadgetoid_iMac	Shh, FS!	14:42
DocScrutinizer-8	SpeedEvil: is there any summary of the /sys and maybe /dev nodes?	14:42
Gadgetoid_iMac	Neither can I, _JP_, it must have an obscure name	14:43
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: no - I was planning on populating the hardware links I made on the n900 page with them	14:46
SpeedEvil	Or not AFAIK	14:46
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil, well the kbd-leds were a nice kickoff	14:48
SpeedEvil	I'm impressed with the battery life - Coming up on 21h active with wifi on, doing a while (sleep 20) in bash	14:48
SpeedEvil	and logging battery level	14:48
SpeedEvil	With maybe an hours use in that time too	14:48
DocScrutinizer51	hmm, I had 23h with 50% lightwight use incl backlight and 100% wifi and IRC	14:50
_JP_	Gadgetoid_iMac: Found it in extras-devel, seems I was misinformed it being in testing...	14:50
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DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil, to me it seemed like reported bat charge in mAh was quite jumpy. Like to share your bat log?	14:57
* timeless_mbp grumbles		14:58
timeless_mbp	anyone here willing to admit some degree of familiarity with hildon/gtk?	14:58
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Dang3rMaus	hehe	14:59
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: very	15:00
SpeedEvil	http://www.mauve.plus.com/Sat%20Dec%20%205%2017:20:10%20GMT%202009	15:02
SpeedEvil	format should be obvcious	15:02
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil, hal reports 8 "unit: bars". Thismcorresponds with batget (watching it charge). But I couldn't make a story out of max_charge / 8 or similar equations	15:03
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer51: go check out toggles_w's open hald-addon-bme	15:04
DocScrutinizer51	he	15:04
DocScrutinizer51	Stskeeps, where to find?	15:04
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Stskeeps	http://gitorious.org/mer-toggles/hald-addon-bme	15:04
DocScrutinizer51	thanks	15:04
Stskeeps	not sure if protocol changed in rx-51 though	15:05
GAN900	X-Fade, ping?	15:05
GAN900	Stskeeps, you wouldn't happen to know where mediawiki resides?	15:06
Stskeeps	the sw?	15:06
GAN900	Yeah	15:06
GAN900	dneary wants access.	15:06
Stskeeps	ah - no idea	15:06
Stskeeps	i don't have access to maemo.org servers	15:06
GAN900	We need to play with the default stylesheets.	15:07
GAN900	Bleh, how useless can you get. :P	15:07
Stskeeps	sitting in my couch and working - very!	15:07
Stskeeps	:P	15:07
Stskeeps	on, that is	15:07
GAN900	Unless it's a very fluffy couch.	15:07
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Ceron^	when will i abe able to video chat	15:10
Ceron^	trough skype	15:10
Ceron^	with n900?	15:10
Ceron^	i would want that feature :D	15:11
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: shiiiit that's weird!	15:12
DocScrutinizer	got the log in kwrite and speeding thru a mostly static screen with ^f / F3 /shift-F3	15:13
DocScrutinizer	feels like timemachine	15:14
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Gadgetoid	hmm if only the wiimote analogue worked with quake	15:18
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SpeedEvil	Well - it's bluetooth - you have hte source	15:21
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: Am I right this hald-addon-bme is basically the code that creates what we see in lshal for battery status?	15:21
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: right, we made a open implementation that pokes BME (please don't investigate anything else than the information gathering stuff we put up)	15:22
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol	15:22
DocScrutinizer	aah thanks	15:23
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oops6_42	Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 ?	15:23
Stskeeps	oops6_42: did you make a .deb package?	15:23
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* sivang likes to get .debs for Xmas!		15:24
sivang	:)	15:24
oops6_42	Stskeeps: no how to so that at is that necessary?	15:24
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sivang	guys, what the way to install a bash on the Maemo SDK ?	15:24
sivang	scratchbox, for that matter	15:24
Stskeeps	sivang: sdk should already have bash	15:24
Stskeeps	oops6_42: well, either that or you can copy the binary manually and install needed libs on device	15:24
sivang	Stskeeps: where do I access it from? I didn't see it on the apps list	15:24
Stskeeps	sivang: dpkg -l	15:25
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Stskeeps	sivang: i'm quite sure scratchbox has bash	15:25
Stskeeps	:P	15:25
sivang	Stskeeps: right, but I want to run it from the Xephyr session	15:25
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: this is information recovery ministery here. No plans to go beyond what you deliver in hald-addon-bme ;-P	15:25
ManuelSE	mmpc - music player client daemon is the greatest app on maemo	15:25
ManuelSE	now i control the heavenly sounds through the whole house	15:25
ManuelSE	needs to support multichannel volume tho	15:26
sivang	Stskeeps: from within the session, e.g. be able to run apps from bash and see the result whilst developing using Qt	15:26
Stskeeps	sivang: osso-xterm? :P	15:26
ManuelSE	np don kosaken chor	15:26
sivang	Stskeeps: /me checks	15:26
Stskeeps	X-Terminal, that is	15:26
oops6_42	Stskeeps: and to install need lib on the device I need internet on my device that what I don't have currently so I think debpackage is good idea but can you redirect me to the link where I can get the steps	15:26
Stskeeps	oops6_42: copy the binary to your device over mass storage and chmod +x it when copied into /home/user..?	15:27
oops6_42	Stskeeps: ok I will try	15:28
jebba	hmm. woke up to a hung fone. Left a web page with qik.com open. Probably flash leaking all night or something. My alarm did go off though, at least.	15:28
sivang	Stskeeps: I have to setup the SDK on this machine. I set it up on my netbook first which worked great except for some sluggines	15:28
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sivang	Stskeeps: I will let you in a acouple of minutes if I can find it on the apps list	15:28
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sivang	what is the VDSO paramter?	15:29
sivang	why need it be set for scratchbox ?	15:29
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: you know GTA02 battery? Is BL-5J similar CC-chip design, or is it a "stupid" bat like BL-5C and the calculations are done in N900 hardware?	15:29
SpeedEvil	I have a 1G SD card in. 'backup' says the filesystem is read-only. It's a mounted vfat fs, mounted rw. Thoughts?	15:30
sivang	ah! vsyscall page	15:30
sivang	:)	15:30
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: i don't know. battery handling is done in software	15:30
oops6_42	Stskeeps: Thanks man working	15:30
Macer	SpeedEvil: yeah. spend $2 and get a 4G sd :)	15:31
jebba	underneath the battery (which i just had to yank....), there are three sets of pins on other motherboard that are visible. They look like they might be serial or usb or jtag or .... anyone know?	15:31
SpeedEvil	Macer: It needs 4?	15:31
DocScrutinizer	yep, I know. But e.g. where is the NTC to probe battemp. Where's the capacity calculated?	15:31
SpeedEvil	jebba: For $10, you may be able to find out	15:31
jebba	haha	15:31
jebba	how's that?	15:31
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SpeedEvil	jebba: there is a site with the level 4 manual available	15:31
sivang	hey jebba	15:31
Macer	haha	15:31
SpeedEvil	which can contain schematics	15:32
sivang	jebba: what's up?	15:32
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: aah, sorry to nag. You told you don't know	15:32
SpeedEvil	but it's not free	15:32
jebba	hey sivang	15:32
Macer	i'm updating macports	15:32
SpeedEvil	Macer: also - 4G for $2 - where?	15:32
sivang	jebba: you a nokian ? :)	15:32
Macer	:)	15:32
Macer	SpeedEvil: i was teasing	15:32
jebba	sivang: i have an n900 but dont work there if that's what you're asking	15:32
Macer	although i managed to buy a 4G from tigerdirect with adapters for like $10	15:32
sivang	jebba: yes, I was wondering :)	15:32
SpeedEvil	Ah. /me is having extreme cashflow problems ATM.	15:33
Arkenoi	is there a note taking application that allows inserting sketches (and maybe even camera shots)? the point is taking notes quickly..	15:33
sivang	SpeedEvil: join the club :)	15:33
sivang	Arkenoi: we should take Tomboy and make it a such	15:33
sivang	Arkenoi: howeer, not sure of mono could be ported to ARM	15:33
sivang	armel, for that matter	15:33
sivang	Arkenoi: I've had this thoughts for mono for long now	15:34
sivang	err	15:34
sivang	s/mono/Tomboy/	15:34
sejo	hmm anyone having bad voice calls with sip?	15:34
jebba	sivang: there is conboy, which is tomboy in c	15:34
sivang	hmm, the installer should have better progress represetation for the download process of the scratchbox debs	15:34
DocScrutinizer	jebba: http://www.google.de/search?q=N900_RX-51_SM_L3%264.pdf	15:35
jebba	sejo: i tried to set up my ekiga.net account with it, but couldn't get it going. I could make a SIP call into the fone when it was runnign asterisk :)	15:35
* Arkenoi uses sip as primary callout method when wifi is available, works even better than GSM ;-)		15:35
sivang	jebba: ah, so mind some dirty work, prolem solved :)	15:35
sejo	jebba I got it working but bad ;uality	15:35
sejo	same with skype	15:35
sivang	jebba: do you think we could make it link against PyObjects so we could use python scripting to add the multimedia functionality ?	15:35
sejo	Arkenoi: thx hope it's on the client end then	15:36
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sejo	jebba: I just added sip account with nick@ekiga.net and works great	15:36
jebba	sivang: not sure, i've never even run conboy	15:36
Macer	anybody here ever use osx as an actual server?	15:36
tigert	sejo: its funny, I have several friends wiht ekiga accounts..	15:37
jebba	sejo: I tried just calling 500@ekiga.net (echo test iirc). That work for you?	15:37
sivang	jebba: not to mention on the N900 right? :)	15:37
tigert	they never seem to have a working setup on desktop linux :)	15:37
jebba	ya ;)	15:37
tigert	"oops, sorry cannot talk, sound is broken" :D	15:37
jebba	i have it working ok on desktop	15:37
tigert	luckily it works fine on N900	15:37
tigert	linux desktop sound stuff seems to have issues still	15:37
DocScrutinizer	I'm using sip://number@sipgate.de since a week now. Works great for inbound as well	15:38
sivang	tigert: you on a tablet ?	15:38
sejo	jebba doesn't connect	15:38
sivang	err, netbook ?	15:38
tigert	sivang: N900 and laptop now	15:38
sven-tek	YES, java runs on my N800. I can finally use my fav app pauker on my tablet PC. YES YES YES	15:38
tigert	but going for lunch now	15:38
jebba	DocScrutinizer hmm. why dont htey just make that info public? hmm	15:38
sivang	tigert: ah	15:38
jebba	sejo: ok, then maybe sip was working but ekiga is having probs with their server. Know a test url for digium offhand? I used to run a asterisk server for a couple years, but no more.	15:39
Stskeeps	sven-tek: what did you install?	15:39
sivang	tigert: The netbooks are very poor. Compaq Mini with nVidia ION are much better, if to say the least.	15:39
sven-tek	openjdk-6-cacao-jre	15:39
sejo	jebba dunno /100	15:39
Arkenoi	jebba: "unable to estabilish connection".	15:39
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DocScrutinizer	jebba: policy	15:39
Stskeeps	sven-tek: oh cool	15:39
Stskeeps	sven-tek: under maemo or easy debian?	15:40
sivang	tigert: but the n900 is cool	15:40
Arkenoi	my registar is tario.net (sipnet.ru domain)	15:40
sejo	what stun does it use?	15:41
sven-tek	It runs under maemo. It has still some ugly fonts, but its usable. I use pauker a lot for learning, its greatest app ever for learning a language or anything you want to remember	15:41
Stskeeps	sven-tek: could you document your steps?	15:41
Stskeeps	others might find it interesting	15:41
sven-tek	nothing special done. just apt-getted the jre and then start pauker with "java -jar pauker-1.8.jar"	15:42
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Stskeeps	apt-getted from where? :P	15:42
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sven-tek	can i see the repository it was installed from with any debian tool?	15:43
Stskeeps	apt-cache show	15:44
sven-tek	Filename: pool/maemo4.0/misc/openjdk-6-cacao-jre_6b14-r0_armel.deb	15:44
sven-tek	i think its from the jalimo.evolvis.org/repository/maemo	15:45
Stskeeps	ah, jalimo	15:45
sven-tek	months ago i gave up running pauker... great	15:46
loft306	Where yo look for the devices phone number?	15:46
loft306	*to	15:47
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jebba	here's a ton of test numbers: http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Fun_Numbers	15:49
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loft306	heh	15:50
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jebba	sejo: how do you have your ekiga account set up on the n900? I can connect to some places, but never get audio (I can with ekiga on my laptop, but not on the fone)	15:55
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sejo	jebba can't test now	16:00
sejo	skype works again :p	16:00
sejo	pretty good even	16:01
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sven-tek	Is easy debian a good alternative to maemo on N800?	16:05
sven-tek	Is there an image to install it somewhere?	16:05
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valdyn	sven-tek: i dont think its an alternative at all	16:05
sven-tek	okay, i dont want to hack but use it	16:06
valdyn	sven-tek: its just a way to use software from the debian armel repository	16:06
sven-tek	ah okay	16:06
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sivang	valdyn: so it probably lacks the nokia prop stuff and the kernel patches to make it work with PM and related?	16:08
sivang	valdyn: re: easy debian	16:08
valdyn	sivang: its not a seperate system	16:08
naxxatoe	does anyone know if ruby and libruby works on the maemo 5 build for n900?	16:08
loft306	http://www.google.com/goog411/	16:09
valdyn	sivang: debian chroot environment to install and run debian applications from	16:09
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sivang	valdyn: ah, nice so no changes to the setup.	16:10
valdyn	sivang: yea, no changes to maemo	16:10
sivang	valdyn: does it have to be a chroot ?	16:11
valdyn	sivang: yes	16:11
sivang	valdyn: for example, if I want to experment with stuff right on the fs	16:11
iDialekt	Anyone familiar with the 4g LTE stuff?	16:11
sivang	valdyn: I mean, adding the sources to the general sources.list	16:11
valdyn	sivang: hmm? do you understand what chroot means?	16:11
sivang	s/general/host-system/	16:11
infobot	sivang meant: valdyn: I mean, adding the sources to the host-system sources.list	16:11
valdyn	sivang: easydebian has its own sources.list	16:11
sivang	valdyn: right, I don't want the apps to beconfied to the chroot fs	16:12
Arkenoi	lte sucks	16:12
sivang	valdyn: I want them to be able to access the /dev/ stuff	16:12
sivang	valdyn: sure I can setup loopback for that on the fs's	16:12
Arkenoi	because lte is to be owned by todays cellular networks ;-)	16:12
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valdyn	sivang: mount --bind /dev /path/to/chroot/dev	16:12
* Arkenoi prefers wimax		16:12
aquatix	hm, can i launch the appmanager from terminal? maybe i can see why it crashes	16:12
sivang	valdyn: right, okay	16:13
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sivang	aquatix: find the desktop launcher file, see what binary it runs and run it	16:13
valdyn	sivang: but easydebian might already do that for you, i have no idea	16:13
sivang	valdyn: k, I should check	16:13
aquatix	sivang: good point	16:13
sivang	valdyn thanks dude	16:13
valdyn	http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian	16:13
iDialekt	?	16:14
sivang	aquatix: you might be able to strace the app as well, to see if a system call is the problem	16:14
sivang	aquatix: but you have to have it installed first	16:14
aquatix	chicken-egg problem :)	16:14
aquatix	still have apt of couse	16:14
sivang	aquatix: :-D	16:14
aquatix	*course	16:14
jebba	got SIP going. Had to check "Open Routing" (?) or something (translation from spanish)	16:15
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Pega88	hi, i'm working on maemo 5 - nokia N900 development for my school end project, is there maybe some website with a general overview/review of all the does and don't for developing for the N900?	16:16
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jebba900	pega88 lots on the wiki	16:19
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fnordianslippers	test	16:30
jebba900	ing	16:30
fnordianslippers	lish	16:30
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homeasvs_	anyone here have a working .sbrsh for fremantle ?	16:34
homeasvs_	racking my brain trying to figure out what's wrong with mine, and all the guides have typos and errors	16:34
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sejo	weird skype works perfect untill I receive an email, then it really starts to stutter	16:38
sejo	jebba: my sip is sejo@ekiga.net	16:39
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loft306	heh	16:56
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jebba	man, google talk works really well. Just did a cross-hemisphere call and it sounds better than a cell phone call.	17:02
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sivang	jebba: yes it rocks	17:06
sivang	jebba: better then skpe	17:06
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timeless_mbp	um	17:19
timeless_mbp	my election thing from dneary was marked as spam	17:19
Stskeeps	it does look like spam	17:20
Stskeeps	:P	17:20
pekuja	D. Nedry	17:20
sejo	ooch didn't know galk was that good	17:21
* sejo sets up		17:21
sejo	I noticed that this night my battery wal almost empty	17:24
andre__	hmm, does the on-screen virtual keyboard depend on any language settings or is it the same for all of them (except for Russian)?	17:25
sejo	putting it in offline mode does that help?	17:25
jebba	gah, i take an image, rotate and crop it in the fone, then select it for a background and it always "un"-rotates it, probably because it reads the EXIF info	17:26
aquatix	yay, wifi	17:28
timeless_mbp	andre__: eh?	17:28
timeless_mbp	the onscreen keyboard changes based on some setting in control panel	17:28
timeless_mbp	the french or spanish keymap should be slightly different from enus	17:28
homeasvs_	anyone here have cpu transparency working ?	17:29
timeless_mbp	andre__: wait, which onscreen keyboard? :)	17:29
cehteh	germany prolly too ... and anyone seen a swiss-german keymap?	17:29
divinegod	ffdec_h264 is terribly slow. but i have a file that openmax (omx_h264dec) refuses to load.. anyone know what to do?	17:29
timeless_mbp	cehteh: none in sales	17:29
cehteh	worst of all .. so close to german but still so strange :)	17:29
cehteh	4 offical languages all with accents :)	17:30
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andre__	timeless, virtual one. not character	17:31
andre__	the third screen, with all the symbols	17:31
timeless_mbp	andre__: ok	17:31
timeless_mbp	it's definitely different	17:31
timeless_mbp	all of them	17:31
timeless_mbp	the fn-ctrl one is very different for polish :)	17:31
aquatix	ok, thinkering with themes doesn't work	17:31
Stskeeps	heya MoonTiger	17:31
aquatix	i think i crashed mer :)	17:31
timeless_mbp	and the full screen finger keyboard tweaks language to landuage	17:31
andre__	cehteh, what's wrong with the german one?	17:31
timeless_mbp	s/dua/gua/	17:31
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: and the full screen finger keyboard tweaks language to language	17:31
MoonTiger	hey Stskeeps	17:31
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: i hate the repos	17:31
timeless_mbp	are you the repo master now?	17:31
cehteh	andre__: nothing .. i just wonder if swizerland gets an extra oen	17:32
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: heck no	17:32
Stskeeps	:P	17:32
andre__	oen?	17:32
cehteh	one	17:32
odin_	afnoon all	17:32
andre__	for what?	17:32
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: help me anyway?	17:32
andre__	I mean the keyboards are based on languages, not really countries...	17:32
timeless_mbp	the stupid gettext package is linked against a library it doesn't provide	17:32
timeless_mbp	andre__: um	17:32
cehteh	are french accents easily available on a german keyboard?	17:32
timeless_mbp	keyboards are based on regional variants of langauges	17:33
timeless_mbp	s/aug/uag/	17:33
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: keyboards are based on regional variants of languages	17:33
* timeless_mbp sighs		17:33
* timeless_mbp needs breakfast, lunch, and maybe dinner		17:33
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: gettext package in fremantle is broken	17:33
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: is there a bug?	17:33
andre__	cehteh, via onscreen special characters keyboard: yes. press bluekey+control	17:33
timeless_mbp	that's kinda incredibly lame	17:33
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: you don't have doctools in your SB target do you?	17:34
andre__	cehteh, not on the hardware keys themselves as they are limited and already used by äöü	17:34
cehteh	andre__: dunno if that pleases french-swiss people	17:34
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: um, why do you ask?	17:34
andre__	cehteh, french-swiss people should not use a german keyboard layout, but a french one. as easy as that.	17:34
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: because normally SB hides this bug from you	17:34
timeless_mbp	cehteh: you can switch the hardware layout in software	17:34
cehteh	and dont forget about italian-swiss and raetero-romanic (ok they need äöü)	17:34
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: well, err	17:34
timeless_mbp	what?	17:34
timeless_mbp	because my problem is that the .deb i got from the repository is broken	17:34
andre__	cehteh, they should use the italian layout. what's the issue?	17:34
timeless_mbp	which means that my app doesn't work right	17:35
cehteh	andre__: you didnt seen a offical swiss keyboard layout dont you?	17:35
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: there's a devkit for doctools (with gettext etc) for sb1. and that overrides the normal gettext package. normal gettext package is horridly broken lbt discovered the other day	17:35
timeless_mbp	cehteh: the keyboard has a way to compose keys	17:35
cehteh	and french layouts are very different	17:35
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: i hit the broken gettext package every month or so	17:35
cehteh	well i am not in swizerland i dont care	17:35
andre__	cehteh, there is no official swiss keyboard according to the latest documents I have here, but feel free to explain as Nokia changes everything at least twice per week :)	17:36
cehteh	haha i dont care	17:36
cehteh	compass and working GPS would be more important to me :P	17:36
timeless_mbp	cehteh: there's a third party package called ukeyboard	17:37
timeless_mbp	which lets you work w/ others to deal w/ this	17:37
luke-jr	cehteh: from what I've been hearing in here, GPS doesn't work	17:37
andre__	cehteh, Uhm. Going to Settings > Text Input > Hardware keyboard layout there is "Suisse, Schweiz". Damn. Never seen that before.	17:37
andre__	uargh	17:37
cehteh	hehe now you know what i mean? :)	17:38
andre__	Bad idea. People should use Italian/German/French layout instead I think	17:38
Jaffa	Morning, all	17:38
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: ask lbt about the back when he's back from bcn	17:38
Jaffa	tigert: The "Horizon" I was hacking was what's now "Attitude"	17:38
andre__	cehteh, not yet as I have not tried it. But feel free to elaborate your issues :)	17:38
Jaffa	Not the old OS2005/6 Horizon	17:38
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cehteh	andre__: you are german?	17:38
andre__	cehteh, yes, according to my passport :)	17:39
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: bug, that is	17:39
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cehteh	well not on the n900 but on a normal keyboard look where some characters are on a swiss layout	17:39
cehteh	* $ § ...	17:39
cehteh	no ß .. ok	17:40
cehteh	forgotten where the {[]} are ..	17:40
pekuja	nobody needs §	17:40
pekuja	it's useless	17:40
pekuja	I hate that they waste a whole key for that on European keyboards	17:40
SpeedEvil	cehteh: compass is a hardware mod.	17:40
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cehteh	if you ever want to make fun of someone switch his keyboard to swiss german	17:40
Stskeeps	or euro	17:40
SpeedEvil	cehteh: I think a fairly simple one, if you could open the case, but...	17:40
Stskeeps	normal people just use 200e or 200eur, right? :P	17:41
pekuja	I'm sure in some European layouts there's something more useful there because they just need more keys in general	17:41
pekuja	well, euro isn't too bad, because it's behind altgr anyhow	17:41
cehteh	SpeedEvil: and then solder it in? :)	17:41
andre__	pekuja, as a lawyer i love § :-P	17:41
pekuja	doesn't really bother me that much	17:41
pekuja	it's just there if I really need it	17:41
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pekuja	andre__: I'm sure you do :-P	17:41
pekuja	andre__: nobody else does ;-)	17:41
SpeedEvil	cehteh: basically	17:41
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SpeedEvil	cehteh: in parallel with the accelerometer	17:41
cehteh	hehe	17:41
SpeedEvil	http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=708	17:42
cehteh	yeah and where is the software support for it?	17:42
pekuja	anyways, I would like to have a US layout for programming, but I'm not sure what the optimal solution would be to fit the scandinavian letters in there	17:42
SpeedEvil	It's on the I2C bus - write a driver	17:42
timeless_mbp	pekuja: optimal solution is to dunk scandinavia into the ocean	17:42
timeless_mbp	(and take .fi with it)	17:42
pekuja	well, my laptop has a couple of extra keys because it's a Japanese layout, so I could probably make it work	17:42
pekuja	timeless_mbp: :-(	17:42
pekuja	timeless_mbp: not that I have much fondness for my umlauts	17:43
timeless_mbp	pekuja: hey, don't frown, i'd lose my apt in the process	17:43
Gadgetoid	ported android yet?	17:43
zash	Yeah, how's the android-runtime-porting going?	17:45
zash	Canonical doing that right?	17:45
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SpeedEvil	Oops. I meant http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9441 - but anyway.	17:45
Stskeeps	zash: someone was doing it but he threw a religious fit over not having google maps and such "android is not as open as you think" and never published the code..	17:46
Gadgetoid	haha I'm just making dirty jokes... android is a sin	17:46
Stskeeps	zash: http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/ -send him an e-mail and poke him to publish	17:47
Gadgetoid	oo extras-testing failed for a change	17:47
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* sejo likes bounce		17:48
suihkulokki	bounce needs a level editor =)	17:49
zash	Stskeeps: lol	17:49
pekuja	zash: android runtime? would that mean running Android apps on Maemo with just a VM or something?	17:49
SpeedEvil	bounce++	17:49
pekuja	zash: that'd be pretty sweet	17:49
Stskeeps	pekuja: see the page i referred to.	17:49
sejo	suihkulokki: mhat's the poy ?	17:49
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sejo	pay	17:49
zash	pekuja: it's java-ish	17:49
zash	pekuja: runtime as in the java vm	17:49
zash	pekuja: except it's not java, but dalvik	17:49
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pekuja	zash: yeah, I know. if it is portable to Maemo, that's pretty exciting I think	17:50
pekuja	Stskeeps: thanks	17:50
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SpeedEvil	I would even pay as much as 3 dollars for more levels on bounce.	17:51
Stskeeps	i wonder if they'll be on ovi store	17:52
kynky	3 levels on bounce? thought the first icon was just for video	17:53
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jebba	why doesn't this work? It's preventing me from removing fotos: `chmod u+w 2006-05-26/` (in MyDocs/.images subdir)	17:53
Stskeeps	jebba: it's FAT	17:53
SpeedEvil	kynky: well - yes	17:53
jebba	Stskeeps: but other dirs in there are +w	17:54
Stskeeps	jebba: that's kinda weird	17:54
Stskeeps	jebba: submit a bug?	17:54
jebba	andre__: ? ^^	17:54
SpeedEvil	It's FAT as it has to be to allow it to work in mass storage mode with most PCs	17:54
kynky	hope not to long for koffice on n900	17:54
jebba	SpeedEvil: but then why are other dirs +w ok?	17:54
SpeedEvil	VFAT does not support most attributes	17:55
jebba	i have a subdir with one dir +w and the others are -w	17:55
jebba	~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ ls -l	17:55
jebba	drwxrwxrwx 2 user root 65536 Dec 6 12:38 2005	17:55
jebba	dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-05-26	17:55
jebba	dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-07-26	17:55
andre__	jebba, hmm?	17:55
andre__	context?	17:55
timeless_mbp	jebba: df -h ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	17:55
jebba	~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ chmod +w 2006-07-26	17:55
jebba	~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ ls -l \| grep 07-26	17:55
jebba	dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-07-26	17:55
jebba	$ df -h ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	17:56
jebba	Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on	17:56
jebba	/dev/mmcblk0p1 27.0G 7.1G 19.9G 26% /home/user/MyDocs	17:56
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timeless_mbp	mount \|grep MyDocs	17:56
jebba	andre__: I scp'd over a few directories. On my system the dirs are u-w so i didn't accidentally blow them out. I scp -pr them, so now when they are on the system, they don't have write perms. But I should be able to change that.	17:57
* timeless_mbp chuckles		17:57
jebba	$ mount \|grep MyDocs	17:57
jebba	/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir)	17:57
Stskeeps	rodir?	17:57
zash	read-only-dir?	17:58
jebba	$ ls -la	17:58
jebba	drwxrwxrwx 5 user root 65536 Dec 6 12:50 .	17:58
andre__	aha. okay.	17:58
timeless_mbp	chmod 0777 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	17:58
sejo	I have an icon in the status bar of the n900 that looks like a file with a red stripe through	17:58
sejo	what does that mean?	17:58
jebba	heh. chmod 0777 works, but +w doesnt ...	17:58
jebba	on the subdirs too.	17:58
timeless_mbp	sejo: no working sim card	17:58
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timeless_mbp	jebba: sounds like a busybox bug	17:59
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jebba	anyway, in the foto manager it made it complain that it couldn't remove the images via tap tap tap	17:59
timeless_mbp	chmod 0555 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	17:59
timeless_mbp	chmod +w ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	17:59
timeless_mbp	does that fail?	17:59
jebba	timeless_mbp: correct. +w doesnt do anything	18:00
timeless_mbp	jebba: doesn't do anything or complains and doesn't do anything?	18:00
sejo	timeless_mbp: thanks	18:00
jebba	ah, but a+w does.	18:00
jebba	timeless_mbp: no complaints, just doesnt do anything	18:00
timeless_mbp	ok	18:00
timeless_mbp	so roughly, the ulimit means it's a partial mode change	18:00
timeless_mbp	and a partial mode change is meaningless on a FAT file system	18:00
timeless_mbp	chmod 0555 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	18:00
timeless_mbp	chmod 0755 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	18:01
timeless_mbp	what happens there?	18:01
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jebba	but things like this fail: chmod -R o-w 2006-0* (well, has no effect)	18:01
timeless_mbp	please be careful	18:01
timeless_mbp	'no effect' and 'fail' are very different	18:01
jebba	timeless_mbp: http://pastebin.ca/1704333	18:02
timeless_mbp	right	18:02
timeless_mbp	so, roughly, a partial mode change is treated as an invalid thing	18:02
timeless_mbp	chmod 0777 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	18:02
timeless_mbp	chmod 0755 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver	18:02
timeless_mbp	what happens there?	18:03
timeless_mbp	remember, fat does have a concept of 'readonly'	18:03
timeless_mbp	it just doesn't have a concept of groups, it's either readonly, or it isn't	18:03
jebba	timeless_mbp: updated pastebin http://pastebin.ca/1704336	18:03
timeless_mbp	right	18:04
timeless_mbp	i'm not sure there's actually a bug here	18:04
jebba	ah, ok, i get it now.	18:04
jebba	hmm FAT	18:04
timeless_mbp	umask is what causes +w and friends to not be treated as 0yyy	18:04
odin_	no Very FAT lols	18:04
timeless_mbp	i believe that the error message from the image viewer app is also sane	18:04
timeless_mbp	but, if you disagree, list it again, and i'll consider it	18:05
jebba	timeless_mbp: ya, if you try to delete an image, should it chmod it? instead of just error?	18:05
timeless_mbp	oh	18:05
timeless_mbp	well	18:05
timeless_mbp	no :)	18:05
timeless_mbp	but can file manager change the readonly bit for you?	18:05
jebba	heh. perhaps "this image is read-only, are you sure you want to delete?" or somesuch?	18:05
timeless_mbp	imagine you have 20 pictures in a set of 1000 pictures	18:06
timeless_mbp	because you don't want to accidentally delete them	18:06
timeless_mbp	you don't really want an image viewer to let you delete them <period>	18:06
timeless_mbp	anyway, can you remove the readonly bit from file manager?	18:06
jebba	timeless_mbp: i dont see a way in filemanager to change perms	18:07
timeless_mbp	looks like they dropped that feature :(	18:08
timeless_mbp	feel free to complain about file manager	18:08
timeless_mbp	the rest of it is all reasonable	18:08
sejo	how can I easily create a screenshot	18:08
jebba	for some reason i could delete all the default nokia images that came with the fone in the image viewer, except this image: digital_nature4_03.jpg not sure why that was different (all blown away now so can't full investigate, but it was: -rw-r--r-- ) timeless_mbp	18:09
timeless_mbp	sejo: ctrl-shift-p	18:09
timeless_mbp	jebba: was it your wallpaper?	18:09
jebba	dont' believe so. I was using default wallpaper at the time (not sure what that image looks like now)	18:10
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timeless_mbp	it was probably that one :)	18:10
sejo	thx	18:10
SpeedEvil	Is htere any pic taking application that does not have the geolocation rounding bug?	18:10
timeless_mbp	rounding bug?	18:10
SpeedEvil	It rounds locations to whole seconds of lat/lon	18:11
SpeedEvil	meaning a 30m*15m or so grid (in UK)	18:11
Stskeeps	wow.	18:11
Stskeeps	:P	18:11
jebba	timeless_mbp: one other thing, re: wall papers. I had an image which I wanted to use as wallpaper. Needed to rotate it -90° and crop, which i did in the image viewer (very nice, btw). But then when i went to use it as a wallpaper, it got rotated back to it's original rotation, maybe due to EXIF info or something. I just edited it in gimp on laptop and deleted EXIF and it worked.	18:11
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timeless_mbp	jebba: file a bug	18:12
sp3000	hm, I was uder the impression the desktop (and avatars) don't support exif orientation, rather?	18:12
sp3000	and that the immage edit uses it rather than transforming the data	18:13
timeless_mbp	jebba: try loading the picture (pre gimp) in the browser	18:13
sp3000	but icbw	18:13
timeless_mbp	the browser doesn't support exif	18:13
timeless_mbp	(not a bug)	18:13
timeless_mbp	so if image viewer is cheating (quite likely)	18:13
timeless_mbp	then the bug is in desktop for not supporting a feature exposed by the image viewer "platform"	18:13
sp3000	camera too, so no setting avatars from portrait portraits :)	18:13
sp3000	ime	18:14
timeless_mbp	sp3000: so, does that make it a missing feature in gtkpixbuf? :)	18:14
lardman	hm Qt channel very quiet	18:14
sp3000	heh, dunno	18:14
lardman	is there a Qt equivalent to osso_initialize()?	18:15
sp3000	for moz upstream it's 298619 and rather inactive	18:15
timeless_mbp	sp3000: it's likely it'd break the web :)	18:15
sp3000	sometimes bugs me when looking at a full size image at flickr, as the scaled versions are manged t orientation but the original is original and may be exif'd to orientation	18:15
sp3000	I dunno, I suspect it would fix more than break	18:16
sp3000	hmm, I'm missing pesto	18:17
timeless_mbp	depends how often there's stray exif data uses in sites which didn't know about it	18:17
timeless_mbp	hrm, pizza hut here has pesto	18:17
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sp3000	and olives	18:17
sp3000	so does my fridge ;)	18:17
* timeless_mbp has olives		18:17
* timeless_mbp goes to read 'maybe spam'		18:18
jebba	timeless_mbp: ok, browser shows it "upright", image viewer shows it "sideways" (how I want it), background shows it "upright"	18:18
timeless_mbp	yeah, file a bug against desktop	18:18
timeless_mbp	don't bother filing one against browser. i will kill it. i promise	18:18
lardman	mmm, olives	18:19
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jebba	timeless_mbp: ok thx. sry for noise (esp. re: FAT)	18:19
* timeless_mbp shrugs		18:20
loft306	haha	18:20
timeless_mbp	it's fun	18:20
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timeless_mbp	ok, so where was i?	18:20
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timeless_mbp	todo: write a po editor	18:21
timeless_mbp	. fix engb	18:21
timeless_mbp	. fix maps	18:21
timeless_mbp	. help a local	18:21
timeless_mbp	. eat breakfast	18:21
SpeedEvil	A poo editor?	18:21
sp3000	so how would you solve connections priorization to avoid automatically preferring annoying hotels and whatnots that require some silly possibly paid login instead of working immediately?	18:21
lardman	shovel?	18:21
timeless_mbp	no	18:21
SpeedEvil	http://www.poopreport.com/Consumer/Content/Turd_twister/twister.html ?	18:21
* SpeedEvil ponders a digitally controlled one.		18:22
timeless_mbp	sp3000: without using drag and drop?	18:22
lardman	like those r/c snakes	18:22
jebba	hmm, HOWTO take screenshot? Best if I can do it from command line via SSH. Cuz if i take a screenshot of the desktop as it is now, it will explain bug much better than words :)	18:22
timeless_mbp	and without being arrested for aiding digital tresspassing?	18:22
timeless_mbp	sp3000: personally	18:22
sp3000	I'm thinking the scheme should be moving connections between three tiers, "preferred", "autoconnect", "manual"	18:22
timeless_mbp	i'd use the mozilla approach	18:22
timeless_mbp	you connect to a network	18:22
jebba	ah, via VNC :=	18:22
timeless_mbp	but that doesn't save it	18:22
timeless_mbp	to save the network, you tap the network indicator and select save	18:22
timeless_mbp	the save thing lets you add a comment, and specify a preference	18:23
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timeless_mbp	for networks you don't save, they're left in a provisional bin	18:23
sp3000	those tiers effectively exist already; all wifis go to preferred, cellular goes to autoconnect or manual depending on your answer to the autoconnect prompt (or later twweaking in cpl)	18:23
timeless_mbp	anyway	18:23
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SpeedEvil	autoconnect to unsecured wifi may not be legal though.	18:24
timeless_mbp	from memory the networking ui is maemo4 or maemo3, not maemo5	18:24
timeless_mbp	so we're talking about rewriting it :)	18:24
timeless_mbp	sp3000: do you have objections to my general approach?	18:24
sp3000	orthogonal	18:24
timeless_mbp	by the time you're using the ui i describe, it's trivial to have the dialog specify as a dropdown option preferred, manual	18:24
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: not generally relevant	18:24
timeless_mbp	autoconnect is a distinct feature	18:24
SpeedEvil	oops - misread	18:25
timeless_mbp	the feature i was talking about but which we haven't covered is connecting to a network and pinging a well known host	18:25
timeless_mbp	some stupid state would probably claim that's digital tresspass	18:25
sp3000	I'm basically suggesting the ability to demote wifis from preferred to autoconnect but not preferred , or manual	18:25
timeless_mbp	sp3000: i'm not opposed	18:25
SpeedEvil	Is there a way of connecting to two networks? I want to bridge my wifi and cell-radio to act as a modem	18:25
timeless_mbp	but, to do that, we'd need to redo the ui	18:25
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: technically yes	18:26
timeless_mbp	from the ui, no	18:26
SpeedEvil	timeless: k	18:26
SpeedEvil	Thought not	18:26
sp3000	in the general case, I think doing the simple thing and dumping wifis to preferred without questions may be the best alternative	18:26
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: while nokia is trying to sell directly	18:26
timeless_mbp	we're also not trying to piss off cellular carriers more than necessary :)	18:26
sp3000	simple case simple and tweak in cpl	18:26
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: sorry - sell directly? ah	18:26
timeless_mbp	besides, designing a ui for that is painful	18:26
timeless_mbp	and no such ui would be 'simple'	18:27
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: somewhat.	18:27
timeless_mbp	and simple is a ui design goal	18:27
sp3000	otoh the case where you're discovering sucky wifis gets a bit circumlocutious, but it always was	18:27
timeless_mbp	sp3000: sorry, can you explain the categories again?	18:27
timeless_mbp	sp3000: i should plug devicescape	18:27
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: I'm unsure what'd be wrong with the wireless net simply taking all packets routed for its netmask.	18:27
timeless_mbp	(disclaimer, my cousin works for them)	18:27
sp3000	preferred is a set to which you get connected if available even if you already have a lower tier connection	18:27
SpeedEvil	But yes, it would add hard-to-debug corner cases	18:28
tigert	hmm	18:28
sp3000	autoconnect is one you get autoconnected to if nothing else is available (cellular if you say "yes" to autoconnect)	18:28
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: given that we can't get the basic corner cases right	18:28
sp3000	manual never autoconnects	18:28
timeless_mbp	i'd rather not go there :)	18:28
SpeedEvil	:)	18:29
timeless_mbp	sp3000: so	18:29
timeless_mbp	i think my approach is right	18:29
sp3000	I don't think the autoconnect set would act preferred over the manual set as in disconnecting from a manually connected thing to hop over there; only preferred would do that	18:29
timeless_mbp	namely the status area should let you promote/demote/note the network	18:29
timeless_mbp	preferably geotag it	18:29
* timeless_mbp wonders if devicescape has shipped for the n900 yet		18:30
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sp3000	yeah, access to demote without going through cpl would fix the discovering sucky wifis case adequately I think, it could probably be shoehorned into that dialog	18:33
w00t	timeless_mbp: got a minute to try reproduce something a bit weird?	18:33
timeless_mbp	maybe	18:33
w00t	tap the top left repeatedly (going between switcher and launcher)	18:33
timeless_mbp	sp3000: that dialog needs to be taken out back and shot	18:33
w00t	while doing this, I often end up at a blurred background (similar to launcher/switcher) with no items	18:34
w00t	I can reproduce this on two devices, but I'm not sure whether it's universal as Stskeeps can't	18:34
loft306	scrambled eggs	18:34
sp3000	receiving bacon frame	18:35
timeless_mbp	w00t: ask the channel	18:35
* timeless_mbp goes back to engb		18:35
w00t	ok, anyone else want to have a play with that one? :-)	18:35
SpeedEvil	timeless: seems to make sense	18:35
loft306	dont got it w00t	18:36
w00t	loft306: are you pressing fairly rapidly? (once per 0.5 seconds)	18:37
w00t	roughly	18:37
loft306	yep	18:37
w00t	hmm	18:37
w00t	I wonder why I'm special :-)	18:37
loft306	see buth things on screen at once but no scramble	18:38
jebba	timeless_mbp: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6632	18:38
povbot`	Bug 6632: Background image does not show correct rotation	18:38
w00t	not a scramble, loft306, and it isn't always instantly triggerable, but I can always get it within about 10-20 seconds	18:38
timeless_mbp	jebba: well filed, good steps to reproduce	18:38
loft306	no just see both launcher and switcher on screen at the same time	18:39
ShadowJK	am I the only one who thinks the current connectivity ui is good as is? :P	18:39
timeless_mbp	jebba++	18:39
sp3000	fwiw I'm not sure if wifis in the middle tier makes sense or not	18:39
loft306	till i stop and one fades out	18:39
w00t	ShadowJK: I don't mind it	18:39
SpeedEvil	w00t: I just tried it or a minute or so, and it diddn't do it at all	18:39
w00t	wtf.	18:39
w00t	this is insane :P	18:39
SpeedEvil	w00t: That is - it simply switched between - though occasionally stalling for a moment.	18:39
jebba	timeless_mbp: thx	18:39
timeless_mbp	sp3000: what's really needed is "ignore this network, it sucks"	18:39
* loft306 is DangerMaus		18:39
SpeedEvil	w00t: 3 apps.	18:39
w00t	I only have web bookmarks and an IM window open	18:40
sp3000	that's kind of the bottom tier, but otoh I didn't think of any ...warning indicator for that	18:40
w00t	let me see if that matters	18:40
loft306	same as SpeedEvil for results	18:40
SpeedEvil	w00t: calculator, a webpage, and file manager	18:40
sp3000	and some of the bottom tier items may be thnigs you do want but just often not	18:40
loft306	as we all break something	18:41
loft306	:P	18:41
w00t	triggered with web bookmarks only open.. let's change that to calculator and see what happens	18:41
w00t	triggered with calculator too. I'm at a loss..	18:41
* w00t thinks		18:42
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SpeedEvil	Has anyone had issues with the statusbar loadmeter?	18:42
w00t	fwiw	18:42
w00t	http://share.ovi.com/media/w00teh.PublicRandomStu/w00teh.10003	18:42
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SpeedEvil	For me it coincided with wifi not working	18:42
w00t	that's what it looks like	18:42
* w00t tries moving desktops to see if that matters somehow		18:44
loft306	hmm with calc i get it to drop out of launcher/switcher to the background here and there but not blurry	18:44
w00t	loft306: that occurs when it was blurry like that and you press anywhere	18:45
loft306	alrite enough of this	18:45
w00t	so chances are it registered a press on the background and went to desktop	18:45
loft306	thats what i was thinking	18:45
w00t	reproduced on another desktop, so that's not it	18:45
w00t	theme differs on the two devices, so that's not it	18:46
* hardaker2 wonders why /usr/share can't be entirely moved to /opt		18:46
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loft306	just your devices w00t your special :P	18:46
w00t	:(	18:46
w00t	it always occurs when going to the launcher screen, never the switcher, which makes sense given there is no button to open the launcher screen	18:48
jebba	would be nice to move / to /opt ;)	18:48
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hardaker2	jebba: hah. yeah. though I understand the reason why they did it that way, they still should have made / larger.	18:49
* hardaker2 considers porting gparted and wonders how that would work ;-)		18:49
hardaker2	my / is now full :-(	18:49
hardaker2	it's a lot of painful maintance to fix it.	18:49
jebba	hardaker2: don't reboot until you fix it or you may have to flash (I went thru that...)	18:50
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jebba	get to 99% at least	18:50
hardaker2	Ah, good to know. thanks.	18:51
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hardaker2	I've dropped it down to about 99 already but I'm glad to have heard that.	18:51
LeoD	hm, how big is /?	18:51
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hardaker2	rootfs 233104 226900 1920 99% /	18:52
sp3000	GB/4 + compression	18:52
LeoD	hmhm	18:52
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hardaker2	I think someone said it was safe to move /var/cache to /opt but I haven't.	18:53
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odin_	hardaker2, run "du -s /var/lib/dpkg"	18:54
hardaker2	28876	18:54
odin_	28Mb of 233Mb, quite a bit....	18:54
hardaker2	info being the big one.	18:54
hardaker2	yep.	18:54
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odin_	I moved mine to /home/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg (I wrote a script on what I did)	18:55
timeless_mbp	andre__: i can't find the sources for sbox2	18:55
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hardaker2	you've rebooted since then I assume?	18:55
hardaker2	(though there is no reason it should be needed before /home is mounted)	18:56
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odin_	yes and installed some apps	18:56
timeless_mbp	sp3000: some crappy work network? :)	18:56
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timeless_mbp	hardaker2: i've already explained why we can't move things to /opt	18:57
timeless_mbp	go read the channel logs	18:57
sejo	hmm /101	18:57
hardaker2	timeless_mbp: I understand the technical reasons.	18:57
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hardaker2	but the current solution isn't workable.	18:57
timeless_mbp	you mean not wanting to screw customers?	18:57
timeless_mbp	you call that a technical reason?	18:57
sp3000	yeah I'm not sure if that sort of thing shouldn't just be in the bottom tier anyhow	18:58
sejo	does the maemo speak caldav?	18:58
hardaker2	timeless_mbp: I should say I understand why things are done the way they are; but / is too small for it to be a usable system for any reasonable amount of pkg installs.	18:58
timeless_mbp	hardaker2: not if everyone installs into /opt	18:59
timeless_mbp	(not technically a great answer for the same reasons, but hey)	18:59
hardaker2	timeless_mbp: Yep. there are a ton of things that should be in /opt that aren't. I agree.	18:59
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timeless_mbp	are there?	18:59
hardaker2	but none-the-less: packaging is harder.	18:59
timeless_mbp	they shouldn't get promoted	18:59
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* timeless_mbp shrugs		19:00
timeless_mbp	what we should have done was just setup a second package root in /opt	19:00
timeless_mbp	and use that	19:00
hardaker2	124160 /usr/share	19:00
timeless_mbp	it requires a bit more magic at the apt level	19:00
timeless_mbp	but it'd be better	19:00
odin_	hardaker2, http://www.pastebin.org/61421 (try that, just comment out the last line which does the removal if you are not sure, it backs it up to a tar.gz file anyhow)	19:00
hardaker2	odin_: thanks; I'll look at it.	19:01
hardaker2	there are two ways to separate out things that have to be in / vs those that don't.	19:01
timeless_mbp	odin_: you're assuming he used command line to install junk?	19:01
* timeless_mbp shrugs		19:01
ShadowJK	I guess python somehow slipped through and was in extras before it was optified? :(	19:01
timeless_mbp	hardaker2: so, nokia screwed up	19:01
hardaker2	1) assume everyone can move stuff to /opt when packaging (including all the people that have been doing it other ways for everything they've packaged in the past)	19:01
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timeless_mbp	fixing it is incredibly hard	19:01
odin_	timeless_mbp, assuming in what way?	19:02
w00t	ShadowJK: afaik python doesn't work optified atm	19:02
timeless_mbp	and way too late for a product that solidified months ago	19:02
ShadowJK	w00t, i think it does now?	19:02
w00t	mm	19:02
odin_	timeless_mbp, I used HAM to install junk and still had not space	19:02
timeless_mbp	odin_: that cache dir is only used by apt, not ham	19:02
hardaker2	2) mark only the things that need to be in / as in / and move common directories to /opt and package the criticial ones separately (which could be done by experts at nokia)	19:02
w00t	you might be right	19:02
w00t	I don't know	19:02
timeless_mbp	odin_: that's because you didn't reboot	19:02
timeless_mbp	and someone held open file handles	19:02
timeless_mbp	(roughly)	19:02
timeless_mbp	"experts at nokia"	19:02
timeless_mbp	funny	19:02
hardaker2	heh.	19:03
timeless_mbp	the experts are what gave you what you have, and	19:03
timeless_mbp	you expect something better later?	19:03
odin_	timeless_mbp, no before rebootting I took a look at that issue, and couild not see any open file handlers to anonymous files	19:03
timeless_mbp	what are you smoking, and can i have some?	19:03
hardaker2	I'm stating what the world should be like. Which means that in the world I'm describing, yes there should be experts at nokia.	19:03
w00t	heh	19:03
hardaker2	I'm not, however, describing what currently exists -;)	19:03
ShadowJK	I guess that the "experts" never imagine to install so many apps that the / would fill up without optification :)	19:03
w00t	everyone is humajn	19:03
odin_	timeless_mbp, HAM does appear to update the apt repo dirs, I have never installed anything with "apt-get" (yet) but I still had only 7Mb free on rootfs	19:03
w00t	-j	19:03
timeless_mbp	odin_: ham is not supposed to use the apt cache dir	19:04
* sp3000 is a unicorn		19:04
* ShadowJK is pretty content after having installed ssh, rsync, mplayer, gpodder, xchat, and most of that probably went to /		19:04
timeless_mbp	oh	19:04
timeless_mbp	you're moving /var/lib/dpkg	19:04
timeless_mbp	sorry	19:04
timeless_mbp	i assumed you moved the other one	19:04
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timeless_mbp	yeah, that one should move	19:04
timeless_mbp	well	19:05
timeless_mbp	actually	19:05
timeless_mbp	it can't move for roughly the same reason	19:05
timeless_mbp	because it'd cause a system flash to be broken	19:05
timeless_mbp	so, no :)	19:05
odin_	/var/lib/dpkg was eating like 5% and could easily grow to 10% (as more package come about) so I elected it to move :)	19:05
odin_	shall I open a bug report to move it in next release ?	19:05
timeless_mbp	basically, that breaks system updates	19:05
timeless_mbp	no	19:05
timeless_mbp	totally pointless, it won't work	19:05
timeless_mbp	see my original explanation for why system stuff can't be in /ppt	19:06
ShadowJK	wouldn't system flash restore the original?	19:06
timeless_mbp	it can't	19:06
timeless_mbp	system flash only touches ubifs	19:06
timeless_mbp	if it fries /home, then the customer is screwed	19:06
timeless_mbp	because we ate 2gb of his user data	19:06
odin_	but when ubifs boots up the first time, it can run and offer to re-link/re-set suiff in /home	19:06