IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-12-06

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javispedroanother mbp? :)00:05
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mecewhat's an mbp?00:08
naxxatoemacbook pro00:08
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crashanddie_mbpheh javispedro yeah, couldn't resist the bargain00:08
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meceis butterfly or haze more easy on the battery?00:09
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meceoh haze isn't even in testing yet. bummer.00:09
meceI'll just go with butterfly for now then.00:10
woglindeno glu00:10
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javispedrono glu, no glut00:10
javispedrono glx00:10
woglindehm why no glu?00:11
javispedroIMHO it's easier to port things from the iphone than from desktop linux using desktop opengl00:11
javispedrothere's some third party glu around here00:11
javispedrobtw you'd never know how many times nokians tend to pronounce "iphone"00:12
javispedroactually, I kinda remember the marketing vicepresident saying the word "iphoneish"00:12
meceisn't that in the dictionary?00:12
javispedro(only for someone to ask on a later talk "why do designers always choose to copy apple?" which I though was a pretty direct to the point but maybe-offensive question)00:13
Stskeepsheh, a lot of designs are copied from nokia tablets too00:14
Stskeepsjust see many of the new devices coming out00:14
javispedrohave to agree with that one00:15
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jebbamaemo-optify-buildpackage   didn't get included in the .deb of maemo-optify00:15
javispedroI was walking the other day and found quite a large ad -- which I initially believed to be about the n81000:15
javispedroof course, it was a moto droid ad00:15
javispedroan ad that most guys in maebar probably had to walk over00:16
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Stskeepsfor some reason i'm thinking about those monolith things with commercials in them and a photo of maemoians around it, 2001 space odessy style..\00:17
woglindehm maybee I can recompile freeglut00:17
Stskeepswith a n900 commercial, obviously00:17
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jebbawoglinde: good luck.  I was poking at that last night.00:18
woglindejebba oh00:18
woglindedouble work again00:18
javispedroglut is not that complex00:18
jebbaya, but i bailed on it, so go for it  ;)00:18
* luke-jr ponders a smarter VCS00:18
jebbajavispedro: have you built it for maemo?00:18
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javispedrowhy port it and not rewrite?00:18
luke-jrStskeeps: what would you think of a VCS that dissected source code?00:18
woglindejebba but I wonder how it got into extras00:18
jebbagranted, i was learning .deb packaging at the same time, but it wanted some stuff not in xorg built iirc00:19
woglindehm maybee per dput00:19
Stskeepsluke-jr: parsing code isn't always trivial00:19
javispedrobecause there's no glx00:19
luke-jrStskeeps: not always ;)00:19
luke-jrStskeeps: but in theory00:19
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luke-jrif it cut it up into ASTs and diffed those00:19
jebbajavispedro: ya, that iirc  :)00:19
luke-jrwhile preserving formatting info00:19
Stskeepsluke-jr: the main issue is comments00:19
javispedrojebba: with no glx and with the reduced number of functions the average glut app uses, you can more easily create your own reimplementation of it00:19
Stskeepsluke-jr: idea isn't bad but gain > effort? not sure00:19
luke-jrStskeeps: comments are part of formatting info in this case00:20
luke-jrStskeeps: well, it could resolve symbols too00:20
luke-jrso a diff would become "renamed symbol foo to oldfoo"00:20
Stskeepsthen it would have to know about build system00:20
ali1234sure, you can reimplement glut. but first you have to reimplement glu00:20
ali1234and let me tell you, that isn't fun00:20
luke-jrStskeeps: not necessarily, just the language00:20
Stskeepsluke-jr: considering how "cheap" storage is these days, it might not be worth the processing time00:20
luke-jrin most cases00:20
javispedroali1234: from the subset of the "Most commonly used GLUT functions" that I'm thinking about none uses GLU00:21
luke-jrthe point isn't to save on storage00:21
luke-jrthe point is merging ;)00:21
javispedroand GLU (the I'm-doing-the-maths-for-you-part) should be easy to port to GL 1.100:21
ali1234hell, you don't even get half of GL00:22
javispedrothe other parts...00:22
jebbajavispedro: i can't more easily create my own reimplementation. I was just trying to rebuild a .deb.00:22
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javispedrojebba: forget about porting GLUT unless it has an EGL backend00:22
Stskeepsluke-jr: OK, total effort and processing time than one human merging a patch manually when a automatic one fails?00:22
ali1234nobody uses GLUT these days anyway00:23
javispedroyou'll end up with such a large patchset that you'll get into maintainance hell00:23
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javispedro(even though, is GLUT updated these days? =)00:23
ali1234nope, not for a few years now i think00:23
luke-jrStskeeps: you're assuming the merge is done by a developer00:24
luke-jrStskeeps: I'm assuming a wide variety of heads merged by the end user00:24
Stskeepsluke-jr: that said, it could be an interesting measure of code contributions00:25
* SpeedEvil wonders if he's confused.00:26
woglindejavis hm00:26
SpeedEvilmodest says wrong username or password00:26
SpeedEvilfrom pop300:26
SpeedEvilaccording to tcpdump, it's simply saying 'CAPA' - then QUIT00:26
javispedroluke-jr: your idea rings a bell for a reason..00:27
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luke-jrjavispedro: ?00:27
luke-jrjavispedro: is that what darcs does?00:27
luke-jrI never understood darcs completely XD00:27
javispedroluke-jr: I think darcs doesn't do that. Though I remember reading about an "AST" version control system.00:28
javispedrogoogle gets a few hits00:29
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woglindehms okay00:30
woglindefreeglut needs glu00:30
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jebbaand the pain begins...00:31
Ashenburgis there a conpletion key in maemo? like tab in i.e ubuntu?00:31
Ashenburglol nm!00:31
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javispedrowoglinde: what for?00:32
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javispedroother than just stupidly depending on it...00:33
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, that sounds vaguely similar to when I tried to use modest on N810. tcpdump revealed similar "wtf?" as you, and modest itself said something stupid and wrong00:33
javispedroeither way, as I said, dependency on GLU is not your problem. dependency on GLX _is_00:33
javispedroGLUT|ES is a port of the OpenSource freeglut implementation for WinCE and Win32 systems ...00:34
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woglindejavis yes00:35
xorAxAxdoes the n900 have a net monitor?00:35
woglindejavis where did you found it?00:36
xorAxAxi.e. infos about reachable cells with their signal strength00:36
ShadowJKxorAxAx, we haven't seen any00:36
javispedrodamn google and their new fangled long urls in the results page00:36
jebbaso can you just blow out that Dependency: glu  line and continue on ok?00:36
LinuxCodejavispedro, +100:37
woglindehm sounds cool00:37
woglindelets see00:37
LinuxCodeone reason to switch search engines00:37
ShadowJKIn photos, some pre-production units seemed to have Nokia Energy Profiler, and if it's the same as on Symbian, it'd log signal strength for the current cell, and 3G timers (which are relevant and important for power saving stuff)00:37
xorAxAxShadowJK: is there any way to get that info from the chip?00:37
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ShadowJKafaik there are no standard AT commands to retrieve that info00:37
ShadowJKyou might be able to get cell id and signal strength for the *currently* used cell though00:37
ShadowJKthough I don't know how :)00:38
javispedrowoglinde: depending on what they have done you may get away by just grabbing the glut|es and creating the required #ifdefs around the win32 calls :)00:38
woglindeI will look at it00:38
woglinde4 years old00:38
woglindemaybee still a lot work to do00:38
javispedroless maintainance work :)00:38
asidjazzsup fellas00:40
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KMFDMmy mobile internet provider00:41
KMFDMhas blocked nearly every port on their mobile internet00:41
KMFDMin order to 'enforce the FUP forbidden use of voip'00:41
* javispedro curses00:41
javispedrothe SDK tools repo has GNU make 3.80 while the sbox devkits have GNU make 3.8100:42
KMFDMand i bought it a month ago before they were doing this00:42
KMFDMso im stuck with them for a year00:42
KMFDMb/c they didn't change their contract terms00:42
luke-jrKMFDM: screwed up country you're in00:42
KMFDMluke-jr, well i think multiple countries are affected00:42
KMFDMit is vodafone00:42
luke-jryour contract doesn't guarantee you internet access?00:43
luke-jrblocking ports is no longer access00:43
woglindejavis hm only visualstudio setup00:43
javispedrono Makefiles? so I guess they removed the unix stuff from freeglut00:43
KMFDMluke-jr, im guaranteed internet access besides VoIP, but they are claiming they aren't blocking ports00:43
woglindebut I am good at autotools00:44
woglindeshould be easy to recover00:44
KMFDMi haven't tried calling support myself yet00:44
KMFDMi'm going to try to terminate my contract if they don't fix it00:44
luke-jrgood idea00:44
KMFDMI'm calling on monday, but I was researching to see if other people had the same issue00:44
KMFDMand discovered what was going on00:44
javispedrowoglinde: that, or "merge" both freegluts :)00:44
luke-jrand once you get past this, use SSL VoIP to spite them00:44
woglindejavis na00:45
KMFDMluke-jr, yeah i'm pretty sure google talk's voip still works fine00:45
woglindewriting from sratch is easy00:45
luke-jrKMFDM: in the meantime, don't use VoIP, so you're clear if it goes to court00:45
KMFDMluke-jr, i haven't00:45
javispedrowoglinde: good luck00:45
KMFDMit is ridiculous. i can't get on msn, aim or IRC unless i tunnel through ssl or make an ssh tunnel00:46
KMFDMStskeeps, going to monday00:46
woglindejavis jupp00:47
javispedro:) well, gnite00:47
type_twhat Voip carrier is that?00:47
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KMFDMtype_t, it isnt' a voip carrier00:50
KMFDMmy mobile provider in an attempt to block voip apps00:51
KMFDMhave apparently also blocked all 'chat applications' because they 'compete' with their 'sms service'00:51
type_tcan you use this proxy ? is there a way to find out?00:51
ShadowJKmy mobile operator sent sip settings for their own voip service to my e75..00:52
StskeepsKMFDM: i would take my money somewhere else at that point00:52
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KMFDMStskeeps, already planning to00:53
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KMFDMi just have to get them to let me out of my year contract00:53
StskeepsKMFDM: you can probably claim the service changed in such a way that it no longer matches what you went into00:53
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KMFDMif they did indeed block chat apps intentionally they have stopped fulfilling the original contract00:53
type_tKMFDM .we are all behind you ;p00:54
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woglindeneed to find out if it is gles v1 or v200:56
LinuxCodeKMFDM, change providers, and tell them to shuv their service where the sun does not shine00:57
woglindehm ah its gles v100:57
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LinuxCodeor complain to trading standards, if your country has something like it00:58
KMFDMLinuxCode, this ist he best part00:58
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KMFDM"according to the terms of service is the use of voip, SMSoIP and tethering not permitted. "00:59
KMFDMwtf is smsoIP00:59
LinuxCodequite frankly that is uncompetitive behaviour00:59
KMFDMwell first of all that is nowhere in their contract00:59
Stskeepssending text messages over the internet00:59
KMFDMLinuxCode, they have a 3x as expensive service that allows voIP00:59
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KMFDMbut now they are trying to force everyone on to it by blocking chat services on everything else01:00
KMFDMeven though that is NOT in their contract01:00
SpeedEvilCheck the definition of 'voip'01:00
SpeedEvilit may include chat01:00
LinuxCodeKMFDM, contact a voip provider01:00
LinuxCodeand say this compnay is stiffling competition01:00
LinuxCodethat is what happened to many companies before01:00
LinuxCodethey got done for uncompetitive practices01:01
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KMFDMLinuxCode, the company is already being investigated by our government and the EU commission, but by also offering a service not blocking them they have basically made it impossible to take action against them01:01
LinuxCodethere you go ;-D01:01
LinuxCodedont count on it01:01
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LinuxCodeKMFDM, is this a provider starting with V, or O, or T ?01:02
KMFDMVodafone heh01:02
KMFDMto top it off they implemented the port blocking during a network outage that lasted at least 2 days and for some users longer01:03
AakashPatelis there already a google voice app for maemo?01:03
AakashPatelmaemo 5*01:03
KMFDMAakashPatel, it is built into telepathy-haze i believe01:03
AakashPatelGoogle Voice?01:03
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AakashPatelI dont believe that's possible, the API's are still  closed.01:04
jebbaAakashPatel: you can call people via google.  google talk i think it is though.01:04
AakashPatelWell, I'm workin on a Google Voice app for maemo :)01:04
AakashPatelFor all you poeple out there with an account01:04
LinuxCodeKMFDM, that means, you did not sign up for that01:04
jebbadunno what the difference is01:04
LinuxCodeand they changed Terms of Service01:04
LinuxCodemeans you have a right to cancel01:05
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LinuxCodeor to object01:05
jebbabut i can make a google talk voice call to another google talk user fine01:05
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LinuxCodeif you object they will be in trouble haha01:05
LinuxCodethen they have to accomodate you01:05
KMFDMLinuxCode, exactly01:05
LinuxCodeso write a letter and object, and if they havent even informed you, contact trading standards01:06
LinuxCode<3 Europe01:06
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woglinde/usr/include/GLES/egl.h:1:21: error: EGL/egl.h: No such file or directory01:10
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user__so i just got back fron tmobile and got ma plan and a sim and i git the techi and he knew to ask if it was a smartphone so i didnt have to give them my IMEI01:15
user__to get the data to work01:16
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woglindehm lets see how clutter handle this01:17
woglindehi wazd01:17
wazd_5130Java irc client )01:17
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wazd_5130Weird but acceptable as backup01:19
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woglindewazd didnt try java yet for fremantle01:20
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wazd_5130That's not maemo, it's s40)01:21
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wazd_5130At least it works)01:22
woglindehm intressting clutter fails01:23
wazd_5130K, gtg sleep, later )01:23
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woglindewonder how they build clutter for fremantle01:24
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zemmtimeless_mbp: when you said that symlinking something from /usr causes problems when flashing the device (?), can those be solved by flashing both the root and eMMC, since i noticed those are separate processes?01:25
zemmaccording to wiki01:25
woglindelibEGL is in place01:26
woglindebut not the headers01:26
woglindethis suckz01:26
timeless_mbpzemm: you mean by eating your user data?01:27
timeless_mbpwell um01:27
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timeless_mbpdo you not care about user data?01:27
zemmwell, backups, backups ;)01:27
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zemmi'm more willing to take daily backups than seeing the 100% full /01:28
yuizycan i use the maemo5 sdk also in building for n810?01:28
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DM_900damg wating e batterymeter move now that im on gsm01:31
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woglindeseems I have to download newer sdk myself01:39
woglindelet me find my imgtrc account01:39
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DocScrutinizer51heh, woglinde :-)01:41
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woglindejo doc01:41
DocScrutinizer51qwelcome on "the dark side" ;-P01:42
woglindenokia should fix this01:43
woglindewith newer sgx sdk01:43
woglindewhy the heck they ship this version01:43
DocScrutinizer51woglinde, got a NIT now?01:44
ali1234woglinde, install the -dev packages01:44
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woglindeali1234 thats not the problem01:44
woglindenokia shiped the sgx-sdk where the EGL headers wasnt installed01:45
woglindeimgtec fixed it  in laterversions01:45
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ali1234how did i manage to compile things then?01:45
ali1234with "#include <EGL/egl.h>"01:45
woglindeali maybee I have the wrong version01:46
ali1234are you using the x86 version?01:46
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woglindeI did deb fremantle/xxxxx nokia-binaries01:46
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woglindeand get version01:46
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ali1234of what package?01:47
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ali1234not opengles-sgx-img-common-dev ?01:47
KenYoungDoes anyone know how I can put an N900 into portrait mode from a C program?01:47
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woglindeits to late01:48
woglindehm ah I realize the problem now01:49
woglindewrong dep of libgles1-sgx-img-dev01:49
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woglindeit has no dep on opengles-sgx-img-common-dev which it should have01:49
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sejosomeone knows how to install codecs for videa/music on the maemo?01:52
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DocScrutinizer51sejo, enable maemo extras repository in progman, search for gstreamer packages01:55
sejoDocScrutinizer: thx trying01:56
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djkrikkeDocScrutinizer, you got a n900?02:00
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nonversationdoes the N900 run google maps02:01
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SpeedEvilIn that you can use the website, but not the app02:02
nonversationwhat about the ovi maps/navigation? does it have free turn by turn?02:02
Gadgetoidgot my n900 playing video to the output and running irc simultaneously.... frikkin awesome02:02
djkrikkenice one Gadgetoid02:03
djkrikkeI'm willing to talk to someone with a n900 about the user experiences, do you have some time Gadgetoid?02:03
woglindeGadgetoid video is dsp02:04
woglindeso there should be enough cpu-power for irc02:04
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Gadgetoidso are transitions so switching apps chugs the vid02:04
SpeedEvilnonversation: no turn by turn02:04
SpeedEvilOr there is turn by turn - but no voice02:05
nonversationthen what is ovi maps for?02:05
SpeedEvilit will route you to a destination02:05
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Gadgetoidwhat do you want to know djkrikke?02:05
nonversationit will provide directions ?02:05
nonversationbut with no voice02:05
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nonversationwhat about other gps programs02:06
nonversationanything out as of yet or in the works for the N900 that would do this?02:06
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simula_wow, xchat looks really nice on the n90002:06
SpeedEvilnonversation: not really as I understand it.02:07
crashanddie_mbpnonversation: I didn't get ovi maps to work02:07
djkrikkewell, I've been reading about the n900, and my impression is that this device needs as much "maintenance" as a linux desktop computer would need. I'm coming from an iphone 3GS and like tweaking etc, but I'm wondering if the device is really usable without lots of extra tools/tweaks (for example video). How bad is it?02:07
Gadgetoidaye super smooth xchat, needs kinetic scrolling though02:07
crashanddie_mbpnonversation: it found where I was, it found my location, but then didn't tell me where to go or what to do02:07
SpeedEvildjkrikke: what do you mean 'maintainance'02:08
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crashanddie_mbpnonversation: neither on screen nor by voice -- pretty useless imho02:08
SpeedEvildjkrikke: If you mean the add-ons - at the moment - most of the non-nokia software is alpha.02:08
nonversation=/  im also reading that the N900 has 32gb but only 2gb can be used for apps?02:08
SpeedEvildjkrikke: It will get better.02:08
djkrikkeI was reading about watching movies on the n900 from websites, there were literally lots of addons and scripts necessary02:08
sejohmm looking for some cool apps to add, mhat are your favorite apps on the n900?02:08
crashanddie_mbpdjkrikke: no maintenance. Turn it on, browse, call, it works.02:08
Gadgetoiddjkrikke i can download videos from bittorent on the n900 using transmission02:08
SpeedEvilBut as it is basically,it works.02:09
crashanddie_mbpdjkrikke: if there are software updates, it'll tell you, and ask if you want to update. That's about as much maintenance as there is to it02:09
Gadgetoidand then play them with the native player02:09
nonversationdo all debian apps work for it? or do they have to be ported?02:09
simula_scripts?  selecting an app from a software repository is more like it.02:09
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nonversationgoogle earth?02:09
Gadgetoidno scripts02:09
djkrikkeyes, does transmission just work without debian chroot etc?02:09
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crashanddie_mbpdjkrikke: yes02:09
ShadowJKdjkrikke, well, the difference is that whereas the iphone doesn't let you expand it to play formats it doesn't play out of the box, the N900 is expandable. The addons you see are people who want to play more formats.02:10
Gadgetoidto play video to video out whilst using irc i just did mplayer -framedrop (filename)02:10
crashanddie_mbpdjkrikke: this is a non-limited platform really, you don't need to "hack" or "break" it in order to do more stuff02:10
woglindehm where is luck when I need him02:10
crashanddie_mbpwoglinde: sleeping, probably02:10
nonversationwill it run google earth?02:10
crashanddie_mbpnonversation: no02:10
ShadowJKOut of the box it handles avi, wmv and mp4 containers with ASP (divx, xvid) and h264 baseline codecs, aac and mp3 audio and some others I forget..02:10
crashanddie_mbpnonversation: but that's because Google didn't port it to the ARM platform02:11
SpeedEvilnonversation: It is not a PC.02:11
djkrikkeI know, but for some programs chroot is still necessary. And if your pointing at the jailbreaking of the iphone, that's indeed what I'm trying to avoid :P02:11
nonversationok so it runs debian and the only apps it can use have been ported for ARM02:11
crashanddie_mbpdjkrikke: no, chroot is not necessary02:11
SpeedEvilnonversation: It will run no PC software that is supplied only in binary form, that the maker has not released a version for ARM.02:11
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crashanddie_mbpnonversation: it's not really debian -- it's based off debian, but that's like saying that ubuntu is debian02:11
nonversationhow well does it work as a phone?02:12
ShadowJKmind, my PC doesn't need any maintenance either..02:12
* SpeedEvil has had it for a week, and has made one call, and one text. Worked fine.02:12
djkrikkewhat are the limitations of the base in terms of installing other applications, like for example a kde application (amarok)?02:12
Gadgetoidhaha chroot? i dont think that means what you think it does02:12
nonversationI currently have an android phone, but looking at the N900 trying to decide if its worth it for me or not02:12
crashanddie_mbpyou can place calls, through SIM or Skype (over wifi or 3G), send texts, receive texts and see them in conversations -- works02:12
nonversationso its fine to carry in your pocket as a normal phone02:13
Gadgetoiddjkrikke most apps need refactored to use the n900 gui02:13
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djkrikkeI see02:13
crashanddie_mbpdjkrikke: in the past there have been full ports of very heavy applications (like thunderbird or KDE) -- the problem is that GUIs don't scale well, so they were barely usable02:13
SpeedEvilnonversation: Personally, I'd recommend it to anyone.02:13
djkrikkeI understand02:14
nonversationwhat about root?02:14
Gadgetoidalthough there may be another desktop linux port to the n90002:14
nonversationdo you have root access?02:14
crashanddie_mbpnonversation: yes02:14
KenYoungnonversation, Yup02:14
SpeedEvilThe software problem gets a lot easier if you say 'you can't use fingers, stylus only'02:14
crashanddie_mbpdjeezus, is this noobzone? Guys, just google your questions02:14
SpeedEvilThen it's more or less just a small desktop02:14
Gadgetoidi could kina use open office on my n81002:14
nonversationspeaking of stylus , do you really have to use that on the N900?02:14
ShadowJKmy eyes need more training with the 3.5" screen. On the N810 I more or less was able to see pixels. The DPI is so much higher on the N900 though :-)02:14
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djkrikkelol ShadowJK02:14
ShadowJKwell not "so much", but a bit..02:15
nonversationhow sensitive to touch is it compared to an android device or iphone02:15
djkrikkenonversation, it's resistive02:15
KenYoungnonversation, The stylus is very helpful in many situations.02:15
ShadowJKI don't use stylus on N90002:15
nonversationthats good, i hate a stylus02:15
Gadgetoidtext in xchat is stupidly smooth02:15
ShadowJKand I was a die-hard stylus fan..02:15
djkrikkebasically that means you have to "press" instead of touching it like on the iphone02:15
KenYoungI use the stylus a lot with the browser, to make sure I click the correct linkgs.02:15
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ShadowJKI just doubletap to zoom, it responds quickly enough02:16
djkrikkebut from what I've heard and seen, the resistive screen works quite good02:16
nonversationdoes it run opera mobile? or opera?02:16
sejoDocScrutinizer: hmm got the extras but no gstreamer?02:16
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ShadowJKnonversation, no.02:16
djkrikkenonversation, it runs firefox02:16
Gadgetoidthe n900 responds well to very light touch02:16
djkrikkefirefox mobile iirc02:16
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ShadowJKfirefox mobile is an alternative. The default browser microb is based on the same technology as firefox, gecko.02:17
nonversationwhat about social apps, twitter, facebook , myspace, and the like02:17
nonversationcan you run those in the background02:17
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Gadgetoidthe screen is flush like the iphone and doesnt give like an oldschool pda02:17
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nonversationmy previous expierences with nokia havent been so well when it comes to software support, sort of afraid to make the jump again02:18
nonversationlike the E7102:18
nonversationand N9502:18
KenYoungDoes anyone know how to get the N900 into portrait mode, other than with the dialer app?   I'd like to have an application run in portrait mode, and I'd be happy to modify the source code to do so.02:19
Gadgetoidi am still waiting for my three sim to work in the n90002:19
nonversationshouldn't any sim work in it?02:19
nonversationas long as you have the settings?02:19
LinuxCodeGadgetoid, needs activating ?02:19
Gadgetoidyes... unless its a particular three sim02:20
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Gadgetoidin which case there is a known bug02:20
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nonversationDoes the N900 have a twitter app? facebook app? myspace app?02:20
Gadgetoidfixed but no firmware update containing it yet02:20
ShadowJKBasically, sim cards are smartcards. The smartcards contain applications. The "sim" application is supported, but the new application used by 3g-only cards aren't. The "sim" application can support both gsm and 3g. At the time nobody was using the new 3g only app and nokia probably didn't think anyone would. Then it turned out otherwise.. wikipedia has the messy details on sim cards :)02:20
Gadgetoidit has widgets but the browser suffices for actually using facebook02:21
Gadgetoidapps are always a compromise02:21
Gadgetoidthe n900 will run farmville kinda02:21
djkrikkethat's cool02:22
djkrikkefinally something with good web browsing and flash support02:22
Gadgetoidwish it would run quakelive and had dual analogue02:22
sejothere is witter (for twitter) but doesn't wark here02:22
nonversationso you have on screen widgets for twitter02:22
sejoit's cool to kave default video out02:22
sejononversation: yeah there is a widget also02:23
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sejobut keeps on browsing02:23
nonversationfacebook widgets as well? like the N97?02:23
nonversationwell that sounds good, looks like it covers most of what I use on android, except the navigation02:24
Gadgetoidi left my n900 downloading about 300mb from bittorrent on battery whoopsie.. seeded to 80 percent02:24
Stskeepsand your phone bill bankrupting you?02:24
djkrikkehow's the battery when torrenting?02:24
nonversationhows the video quality? what format does it save the videos in?02:25
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nonversationhope its mp4 or mov , avi02:25
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nonversationand not 3pg02:25
Gadgetoiddont torrent on battery :)02:25
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djkrikkeis it really that bad? :P02:25
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Gadgetoidit could probably suck down a gig without seeding02:26
ShadowJKI would guess 2-4 hours torrenting on battery :)02:26
nonversationwhen you record video, what format is it in?02:26
Gadgetoidbut if you plan to actually watch the video afterwards you are gonna want to do it on mains02:26
ShadowJKnonversation, mp4 probably02:26
ShadowJKI haven't checked02:26
Gadgetoidthe torrent client also has a web ui02:26
xchatevilflickr should have some video02:26
* ShadowJK hasn't had a nokia phone in 3 years that has used 3gp02:27
Gadgetoidso you can leave your phone charging and add torrents to it from your desktop02:27
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nonversationAndroid default video recording is in 3gp02:27
nonversationno other options02:27
djkrikkebut then you'd probably download torrents on your desktop and add them from your n900? :)02:27
nonversationbut of course they dont tell you that when they sell it to you02:27
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nonversationand vlc doesn't support 3gp audio02:28
ShadowJK3gp audio... you mean amr?02:28
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nonversationits a pain in the ass02:28
nonversationI think in linux you have to complile vlc from source to get it to play amr, I think they leave it out as default02:29
nonversationI could not get anything to play my 3gp videos from android in linux, or windows , or woud play without sound02:29
ShadowJKthe amr reference implementation isn't redistributable02:29
Gadgetoidtrue djkrikke i usually ftp into my desktop from the n900 and grab what i need02:29
nonversationonly option is a direct upload to youtube, or spend time trying to cover it02:29
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nonversationconvert it02:29
Gadgetoidhmm that reminds me, need to grab my n810 and finish an ebook02:30
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Gadgetoidtheres an account plugin to idle irc nut it cant join channels or identify with nickserv... boo02:31
djkrikkeafraid to ask, but how's the battery life, can it handle at least 1 day?02:31
djkrikkeI know it is in reviews02:32
djkrikkeand there they say about "yes"02:32
djkrikkebut when used like it should be used (ftp, irc, ..), how is it?02:32
Gadgetoiddoes for me, sits on my desk all day idling irc02:32
ShadowJKirc on 3g is bad with lots of channels. edge lasts the day. wlan lasts longer02:33
Xisdibikdjkrikke: i unplug it at about 7-8am,  and go until after 8pm.  using it for at least 3 hours of music player,  and it has wifi, gps, etc on.02:33
Gadgetoidi am never far from power though02:33
Xisdibikto me the battery life is great02:35
djkrikkeat what percentage is the battery at 8pm?02:36
Gadgetoidn810 is better... lack of gsm helps02:36
Xisdibikdjkrikke: not sure, never checked the exact %02:36
Xisdibikbelow 25% for sure id say02:36
ShadowJKwith 20 freenode irc channels and 15 other irc channels, I'm at 57% after 10 hours02:37
djkrikkeok thanks for that information02:37
Xisdibikive never felt like i was rushing to charge the thing tho02:37
djkrikkeright now my iphone is at 40% each day02:37
XisdibikShadowJK: on wifi or GSM/3G?02:37
sejocan't I add mp3 files as ringtone?02:37
djkrikkeproblem is, I take the train to my university and there's bad reception, it literally kills the battery02:37
Gadgetoidi gave my iphone to the other half02:37
ShadowJKwith 3g it/s at 50% in 3 hours :)02:38
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Gadgetoidlack of multi tasking meant i basically had to carry the iphone and n810 everywhere02:38
ShadowJK3g is bad for irc02:38
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SpeedEvilxchat on n900 is quite OK.02:40
ShadowJKexcept that changing settings crashes02:41
djkrikkewhat I'm also wondering is, someone tried bluetooth internet tethering before?02:41
SpeedEvilIt could do with kineticisation of the scrolly things, but apart from that, and the profile thing.02:41
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Gadgetoidapart from lack of kinetic scrolling and its hijacking the volume buttons to switch windows02:41
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Gadgetoidcant even easily reach the volume keys with the keyboard open02:42
KenYoungOn my N900, I am unable to set the execute permission bit of any file stored on the microSD card.   Does anyone know how that can be fixed?02:42
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Gadgetoidno ken02:43
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Gadgetoidunless you want to reformat it02:43
crashanddie_mbpKenYoung: it's because the fat partition is mounted with the nosuid flag or something02:43
KenYoungGadgetoid, I'm willing to reformat.02:43
crashanddie_mbpor noexec02:43
StskeepsKenYoung: internal or external?02:43
Gadgetoidfat cant even support exec/perms surely02:43
crashanddie_mbpGadgetoid: everything is set as exec on fat02:43
Gadgetoidmmmm .... secure02:44
crashanddie_mbphence the noexec flag02:44
Gadgetoidmount -o remount,exec   ftw02:44
KenYoungStskeeps, There's only one microSD slot on the N900, isn't there?02:44
crashanddie_mbpKenYoung: actually there's 202:44
Gadgetoiddunno what device the sd is though02:44
StskeepsKenYoung: well, the internal storage is 'technically' a sd, so wasn't sure what you meant. just format it ext2/ext302:45
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StskeepsKenYoung: and be happy02:45
SpeedEvilAnyone figured out what pins under the battery might be?02:45
crashanddie_mbpSpeedEvil: i2c for sure02:45
StskeepsSpeedEvil: serial, most likely.02:45
ShadowJKserial probably02:45
crashanddie_mbpthere's two different set of pins02:45
SpeedEvilcrashanddie_mbp: yeah. I was wondering if anyone had actually worked it out - wondering about gluing stuff on.02:45
crashanddie_mbpone which only has 2 pins, and another with 8 or 602:45
KenYoungStskeeps, Thanks,   I will.02:45
SpeedEvil8/6 sounds like a candidate for jtag02:46
crashanddie_mbpi2c + jtag would make it very interesting02:46
Gadgetoidthats where someone will hack in a digital compass haha02:46
* sejo has sounds video and now looking for themes :p02:47
crashanddie_mbpcan we all be proper geeks, and just call it by its real name? A magnetometer02:47
SpeedEvilI2C, teeny, not too spendy02:47
Stskeepshow many pins does i2c typically require? :P02:48
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Gadgetoidjust rig an ordinary compass under the n900 and use the camera to read it02:48
Stskeepsi mean, 2 serials and one jtag sounds sane.. but wtf is the last one02:48
crashanddie_mbpbuttplug adapter02:49
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StskeepsGadgetoid: not an entirely bad idea :P02:49
crashanddie_mbpgives a whole new meaning to "Nokia: Connecting People:02:49
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SpeedEvil6 is the absolute minimum for jtag.02:50
Gadgetoidit would kinda work stskeeps... if you held it level02:50
SpeedEvilgnd/and 5 other signals02:50
DocScrutinizerI2C also loves GND02:50
fernando__er, I don't know if this is the right place, but... tablet-encode is quitting with a "Audio LAVC, couldn't find encoder for codec mp3." error02:51
fernando__should I... reinstall mencoder or something?02:51
DocScrutinizermost likely the pins under bat aren't suitable for extensions nayway02:51
DocScrutinizerthat's all fab calib and QA for jigmount02:52
DocScrutinizerJTAG, and maybe modem-tty02:52
fernando__ah never mind02:53
DocScrutinizerOr speaker/earpiece etc, something they *need* to stick a DVM to02:53
SpeedEvilyeah - probably not plausible.02:53
SpeedEvilYou could in principle probably add it easily.02:53
SpeedEvilParallel the accel02:53
DocScrutinizerif you find the pads to slder a cable to02:54
SpeedEvilworst case, pull the chip02:54
Macerin maemo4 why doesn't this thing get my imap folders?02:54
DocScrutinizerhow about USB hub?02:55
SpeedEvil(and yes, I'm slightly reluctant to solder)02:55
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I haven't gotten round to it - I found stuff I'll need to test more today.02:55
DocScrutinizeraah that one02:55
sejofor maemo 5 (n900) mhat repo's should I set? fremantle02:55
DocScrutinizerI actually lost interest for now02:56
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizerI haven't.02:56
SpeedEvilJust too much annoying random crap, and getting up the energy02:56
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: if you disassembe the critter, don't forget to post me highres flatbed scans02:57
DocScrutinizerso I can read all the chip names ;-)02:57
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Macerand make the cheap chinese knockoff?02:57
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: unfortunately, there is absolutely no way realistically I can afford to take it apart. If I break it, I will not be getting another.02:58
DocScrutinizerand nota bene: Nokia in their service manual marks can lids as "use new one, discard old part after removing" - well they do same for screws even o.O02:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: same here ;-D02:58
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crashanddie_mbpDocScrutinizer: which service manual?03:03
DocScrutinizerfor whatever it's worth: N810 "" PROD_TEST_PATTERN \n UART3(1:0) \n SLEEPCLK_REQ_1V8  \n SLEEPCLK_REQ_2V8 \n SCK ""03:03
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_mbp: ^^03:04
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_mbp: the answer ;-)03:04
crashanddie_mbpoh, n810 one, old03:04
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SpeedEviln900 service manual03:07
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DocScrutinizerhow THE HECK download it?03:08
jebbaa fkn .rar?03:08
jebbahave to log in to download....03:10
SpeedEvilyes - it's a pay site03:10
DocScrutinizerTo access the private area of this site, please log in. :-((((03:11
jebbait's real hard to distribute .pdfs on the internet, i know.03:11
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user___sitting in da pub having a few03:21
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DocScrutinizerhavin a few crap - oh noes!03:26
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DangerMausgotta get an irssi config going here DocScrutinizer03:27
DangerMausto stop signing on as user03:28
ali1234wow, i just had a PROPER crash03:28
ali1234while playing back a video i just recorded03:28
ali1234n900 did an instant-reset03:29
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djkrikkenice one ali123403:33
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djkrikkeso how long have you people got the n900 already? In Belgium, it will be for sale on 11 dec03:34
ali1234i had it since the summit - only one crash in all that time, not too bad03:34
* ShadowJK has had it since 27th03:34
DocScrutinizersince 30.03:35
* w00t got his on the uh.. 2nd03:35
johnxsince oct 9th or so I guess03:35
jebbajust this week....03:36
DocScrutinizerali1234: culd you check the bootreason please?03:37
jebbamaemo-optify-buildpackage     hmm. That didn't seem to optify anything.    I ran it like this  `maemo-optify-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc`   hints?03:38
djkrikkewhat was your previous phone ShadowJK?03:38
ali1234DocScrutinizer sure, one second03:38
ShadowJKdjkrikke, Nokia E75, before that Nokia E70, before that Nokia 6820, before that Siemens CF-62, before that Nokia 322003:38
djkrikkewow :)03:38
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ShadowJKOh wait, I forgot the Siemens M35 before CF-6203:38
ali1234DocScrutinizer [114667.280273] Bootup reason: sw_rst03:38
djkrikkeso you have been "into nokia" for a while03:39
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DocScrutinizerali1234: thnks (btw what's been the friggin name of the node to readout)03:39
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ali1234DocScrutinizer: eh?03:40
ShadowJKWell after my first nokia died a strange death, I was a siemens user for two models. Siemens has more serious problems with their phones, they all died03:40
w00tI had a HTC universal previously03:40
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SpeedEvil /proc/boot_reason or something03:40
w00tthat was a godly phone03:40
ali1234i did dmesg | grep reason03:40
w00tbut very very bad in terms of hw problems.03:40
DocScrutinizerali1234: aah you got it from a log. There's been a /sys node on N810 at least03:40
ali1234obviously that only works if you're quick03:40
ShadowJKthe first nokia, and the two siemens are dead, but the other phones still live. E70 is semi-dead, the joystick is kinda dodgy.03:40
DocScrutinizerthanks :-S03:41
DocScrutinizerali1234: is log and /proc/bootreason consistent?03:41
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ali1234yes, they both say sw_rst03:42
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DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe a heavy glitch in graphics accel driver03:42
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ali1234looked like that to me, the video was very choppy before it crashed03:42
ali1234i also had two ssh connections running, one of which was pinging my router, to keep the wifi alive03:43
DocScrutinizerduh, you got ideas03:43
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DocScrutinizerwell, I have reboots on N810 frequently. But always watchdog. Guess it's related to xchat logging03:45
DocScrutinizeras it's always doing a double reboot, I conclude that's fsck due to file writing activity while watchdog shutdown03:46
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DocScrutinizer51funny thing is the touchpanel obviously estends 2..3mm beyond the right (bottom) of the display :-P03:53
DocScrutinizer51on N90003:53
ali1234they should have made it extend further, i think. for scrolling03:53
ali1234edge scrolling beats that multitouch crap any day03:54
ali1234i like to see what i'm scrolling past03:54
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ShadowJKit extends on all sides I think03:55
DocScrutinizer51definitely not03:55
DocScrutinizer51on right side you get click event that seem to *be* outside of screen03:57
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: browser uses that03:57
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timeless_mbpfor the interaction mode and the back gesture03:57
w00ttimeless_mbp: wtf are you doing still awake ;-)03:57
timeless_mbpwatching SG103:58
w00tvalid reason03:58
w00tmy favourite series03:58
w00tseen any of universe?03:58
timeless_mbpsadly, i don't think it shows in .fi yet03:58
DocScrutinizer51timeless, I seem not to get it with the gesture part03:59
w00t..wait, there's a back gesture04:00
* w00t missed that04:00
DocScrutinizer51timeless, could you ellaborate or toss pointer for rtfm? ;-)04:00
timeless_mbpstart offscreen right and slide left04:00
timeless_mbpat least, it should work..04:01
timeless_mbpthe other thing is start from offscreen (bottom) left and slide right04:01
timeless_mbpthat'll give you an indicator04:01
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DocScrutinizer51for xchat I can click to the *right* of scroll slider04:02
DocScrutinizer51for browser this seems to not apply04:02
DocScrutinizer51(clicks *outside* of screen thst is)04:03
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jebbai swear at one point i was able to set something that gave my location status via jabber and I could pick the resolution: country, city, neighborhood, street or somesuch. I can't find it now. Anyone?04:07
w00tclick status area04:07
w00tclick availability04:07
w00tclick 'my location'04:08
* timeless_mbp watches as the tauri+tokra drop a stargate (dialing into a black hole) into a sun04:10
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w00ti remember that ep04:10
SpeedEvilRecent book I read had a similar idea.04:11
SpeedEvilbut using the jets from a pulsar as a source04:11
timeless_mbpanything wrong?04:11
timeless_mbpnope. i've just never blown up a star before04:11
djkrikkesomeone tried podcasts on the nokia n900 yet?04:11
DocScrutinizer51who was teleporting a small bit of nearby sun into enemies starship? :-o04:12
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w00ttimeless_mbp: favourite SG:1 member, go04:12
w00tdjkrikke: I'm sure that someone would have by now, yes04:12
w00tdjkrikke: do you have a specific question?04:12
djkrikkeyes, is it possible to download podcasts over wifi and save them and listen to them afterwards?04:13
fnordianslippersuse gpodder04:14
djkrikkethanks for the suggestion04:14
AakashPatelCan we release closed source apps in garage and hopefully eventually to the extra's repo and stuff?04:14
derfInto extras, yes, I believe so.04:14
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fsfsfsHi all04:14
derfI'm not sure why you would put something closed-source on garage.04:15
AakashPatelwell how about in -extra's04:15
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AakashPatelor devel or whatever04:15
derf21:14:48 < derf> Into extras, yes, I believe so.04:15
AakashPatelwoops missed that04:15
jebbaw00t: at the risk of uh, well, being foolish...where is "status area" (!)04:15
derfThere's a non-free section.04:16
w00tjebba: where the wifi icon, carrier text is, etc04:16
w00tnear the switcher button top left04:16
DocScrutinizerjebba: commonly known as systray, I guess04:16
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DocScrutinizerI don't get any interesting settings next to online status though04:17
w00tdid you click it?04:17
DocScrutinizersure - lol04:17
w00tI have, top downwards, two rows04:17
w00t(well, more after, but it's unimportant)04:17
w00tonline | busy | offline (buttons)04:18
w00t[Status text input] [My location button]04:18
djkrikkethe AlmostTI Graphing Calc Emulator looks so fun :°04:18
jebbahahah. ok i only looked htere 10 times, must be getting tired hahah04:18
DocScrutinizer[online [offline] \n sip:myaccount \n Accounts04:18
w00tDocScrutinizer: *weird*.04:18
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ShadowJKI don't get the availability button either, but then I don't have any accounts entered that support that kind of stuff04:19
w00tperhaps that is it04:19
DocScrutinizerand right there is [new status] \n [store]04:19
ShadowJKmsn, skype, jabber, etc04:19
w00tI have msn, skype, ovi, google chat04:19
DocScrutinizerthat's it04:19
DocScrutinizerovi especially I guess04:20
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w00tit was there before ovi, I only set that up today04:21
DocScrutinizernotifier: "Registered at Ovi of Nokia: joerg900 \n Chat, foo, and bla activated"04:22
DocScrutinizeryep, now it's there04:22
AakashPatelhow do you swtich into the armel target in scratchbox?04:22
* w00t adds you for fun and profit04:23
DocScrutinizergo ahead ;-D04:23
* ShadowJK wonders if sb_menu does stuff04:23
AakashPateloh yeah04:24
ShadowJKand I don't even use that hting..04:24
AakashPatellol i havent used scratchbox in a while04:25
w00tDocScrutinizer: did that work?04:26
DocScrutinizererrr, what?04:27
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w00tDocScrutinizer: tried adding you04:27
DocScrutinizerwent unnoticed04:27
DocScrutinizerw00t: ok, for this *one* time :-DDD04:29
w00tah :-D04:29
* w00t hugs his n90004:29
* kurtan kills w00t and steals the n90004:30
w00tkurtan: not got yours yet?04:30
* kurtan has no ethics04:30
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kurtanno.. :(04:30
ShadowJKsweden has the hutchinson 3g disease I think :)04:30
w00tkurtan: where are you?04:30
* DocScrutinizer wonders which friggin "app" (I start to hate the word) to use to see any detail about w00t04:30
w00tDocScrutinizer: contacts04:30
timeless_mbpwow, my recording timing sucked04:30
kurtanhopefully nokia will start delivery this week04:30
w00t(address book icon)04:31
kurtanw00t: sweden04:31
w00tkurtan: ...ah04:31
timeless_mbpit got everything until they try to escape the supernova04:31
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w00ttimeless_mbp: :-/04:31
DocScrutinizerthere appeared a automagically XD04:31
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, well, it's mainstream scifi. They all make it, and the world/universe is saved for now.04:32
ShadowJKoh wait, was that the ep where that wasn't true? I can't remember :-(04:32
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timeless_mbpi'm currently reading a book04:33
timeless_mbpwherever every couple of chapters someone dies04:33
w00tDocScrutinizer: when did you get yours? ;)04:33
ShadowJKOne day, we will have technology that enables us to, like, download stuff from start to end, instead of sitting with a stopwatch surrounded by alarms trying to catch the whims of broadcasters04:34
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w00tShadowJK: :P04:35
djkrikkeI see lots of users having troubles using vnc viewer on the n900, is this really working yet?04:37
* ShadowJK hopes it wont involve adobe, javascript or theora04:37
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DocScrutinizerwhat's wrong with theora?04:41
w00t** religious war alert **04:42
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* DocScrutinizer ducks04:42
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kevloraldjkrikke: I have tried to use it, but it doesn't work for me. I can see in my firewall logs that some connection packets are arriving at my computer, but the client doesn't connect.04:43
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DocScrutinizerfix Ur firewall settings?04:45
kevloralDocScrutinizer: nope, that's not the problem.04:45
ElerionI got a preproduction N900 for a test. Are there any diferences between this and production model? (besides N900 logo on production ones)04:46
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DocScrutinizerhow could anybody tell? :-P04:46
djkrikkeElerion, how do you get a preproduction device?04:46
DocScrutinizersend me your preprod device and I'll compare them happily04:46
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ElerionI work for telecom company and we usualy get all kinds of nice things. :-)04:47
LinuxCodedjkrikke, it fell off a production line04:47
djkrikkelol :P04:47
djkrikkejust curious :)04:47
timeless_mbpElerion: there can be minor variations in the hardware04:47
timeless_mbpbut generally, they're roughly equivalent04:47
timeless_mbpyours might not have a CE stamp04:47
LinuxCodeit fell off a production line and and a Nokia manager took it and shipped it04:48
timeless_mbpwhich might technically cause issues if you cross international borders04:48
DocScrutinizerno CE04:48
DocScrutinizerwhat a pity04:48
timeless_mbpi can't see his device04:48
djkrikkeCE stamp?04:48
timeless_mbpoh, and it probably says "Not for resale"04:48
LinuxCodeEuopean COmmunity04:48
timeless_mbpperhaps even "property of nokia"04:48
LinuxCodeits the logo used for approval of electronic devices in the EU04:49
LinuxCodewithout it, you cant sell it here04:49
kevloralLinuxCode: note really. It stands for Conformité Européene04:49
LinuxCodekevloral, thanks for clarifixation04:49
* LinuxCode was never interested enough to really find out what it stands for04:50
DocScrutinizerso take an Edding marker and write (CE) on it. It's basically what Nokia does as well04:50
LinuxCodeDocScrutinizer, loool04:50
LinuxCodeDocScrutinizer, I am sure nobody will notice04:50
ShadowJKself-certified :)04:51
ElerionIt's HWID 2001, Build F4. (No CE mark) I'm asking because camera quality is quite bad. And i'm hoping it was improved in production model.04:51
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DocScrutinizerthat why I say. That's what Nokia does04:51
DocScrutinizerEach el-cheapo mainland china crap has CE printed on it, and it's not even fraud04:52
DocScrutinizerit simply says "we think it's ok"04:52
LinuxCodeDocScrutinizer, tell customs that, when they take it and scrunch it up04:53
ShadowJKCE doesnt say much about whether something has good build quality or not, or even if it works04:53
DocScrutinizeractually I guess CE isn't required at any customs action for passengers04:54
LinuxCodeShadowJK, CE means it is safety tested04:54
DocScrutinizerexactly NOT04:54
ShadowJKce pretty much only covers not catching fire when you plug it in, and no electrocuting you wif you touch it04:54
DocScrutinizerit really is self-certified by manuf - "we think it's ok"04:54
ShadowJKmanufacturers are supposed to test it themselves. there's nobody checking whether that is the case04:55
AakashPatelwhat C++ socket library does maemo 5 offer?04:55
timeless_mbpAakashPatel: why should we?04:55
timeless_mbp(answer: necko)04:55
LinuxCodeShadowJK, trading standards does04:56
woglindeAakashPatel boost04:56
LinuxCodein each EU country04:56
timeless_mbpwoglinde: is boost actually included?04:56
DocScrutinizereeeek bost04:56
DocScrutinizerboost even, bah04:56
woglindemy bad04:57
woglindethought there was boost socket too04:57
DocScrutinizerwell are you sure boost will fit on the 32GB of storage ? ;-P04:57
ShadowJKand it has to fit in 256meg along with the rest of the system04:58
AakashPatelfunny name04:58
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what qt will bring to us05:00
jebba900woglinde any luck with glu etc?05:01
DocScrutinizerheh, jebba900?!?!!05:01
woglindejebba hm trying to compile glew now05:02
woglindebut will not work I guess05:02
jebba900sittin on couch without tab nick completion heh05:02
DocScrutinizer51docscrutinizer900 was imply too long ;)05:02
DocScrutinizer51jebba900, xchat?05:03
AakashPatelits hard to find any networking examples in C++ :/05:04
woglindeAakashPatel look at qt05:04
yuizyyou can always use qt05:04
AakashPatelI'm tryin to think of how i will set up this kind of project05:05
AakashPatelI have to use protobuf's05:05
DocScrutinizer51jebba900, go to settings advanced kbd-shortcuts05:06
jebba900crashanddie_mbp, no?05:07
AakashPatelAre there any doc pages to developing in QT on maemo?05:07
jebba900i typed crash and it completed for me magically somehoww without tab so its there somewhere!05:07
DocScrutinizer51that's auto nick expand05:08
AakashPatelHm, maemo 5 alreayd has all the stuff required to run qt linux apps?05:08
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woglindediablo had05:09
AakashPatelah, thats interesting05:09
AakashPatelwhy are the boasting about maemo 6 on the page?05:09
DocScrutinizer51jebba900, works only owhen autocomplete in kbd is disabled?05:09
woglindeqt will only be main widget set with maemo605:09
woglindefor now its gtk05:09
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woglindeas in earlier versions too05:10
woglindeokay sleep now05:10
AakashPatelah, so qt is jsut an option to use on maemo5?05:10
AakashPatelokay, night :)05:10
woglindemaybee I have to steel at clutter05:10
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dick-richardsonhow do you disable the shutter sound in fremantle?05:10
jebba900doc i cant do it again however i did it05:10
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* jaem_ moos05:11
AakashPatelHow the heck would I compile a QT app for armel?05:11
DocScrutinizer51jebba900, go to settings advanced kbd-shortcuts05:11
jaem_did someone poke me a little while back?05:11
jaem_I got a blinky light, but the scrollback missed it :/05:11
KenYoungIs there a way to get the N900 camera to save images with no compression at all?05:11
jaem_AakashPatel, Scratchbox, as normal - I do it all the time05:11
AakashPatelDoes the default GUI sdk isntaller install all the frameworks and stuff?05:12
jaem_AakashPatel, there are qt 4.6 packages in extras-devel05:12
jaem_however, for some silly reason, qmake is compiled for i38605:12
jaem_I'm just going to shower, but I can send you a proper qmake package in a few minutes05:12
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jaem_AakashPatel, in the mean time, add extras-devel to your sbox source.list, and install all the libqt4-maemo5-* packages05:13
AakashPatelin the armel target05:14
AakashPatelor the x8605:14
AakashPateleh in the armel...stupid question05:14
DocScrutinizer51jebba900, I just changed autocompletion in xchat to shift-right05:17
DocScrutinizer51even better than what I had before05:18
jebba900DocScrutinizer51, got it. ctrl-right is decent05:18
DocScrutinizer51that's what I had before05:18
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DocScrutinizer51I like the skip word default function though05:19
ElerionLimitation for only one APN in N900 settings... is there a way around it?05:20
Elerionpacket connection05:20
AakashPatelerm wtf05:20
DocScrutinizer51which limitation??05:21
jebba900wtf packet connection. bluetooth?05:21
AakashPatelwhat do i add in my sources.list for extras-devel?05:21
ElerionNo. GPRS. you can't add more then one.05:21
DocScrutinizer51aaah05:21 iirc05:21
* DocScrutinizer51 checks PC connectivity manager05:22
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DocScrutinizer51nah, nevermind05:23
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derfSomeday I would like to commit to garage and not have it take an hour.05:29
DocScrutinizer51Elerion, actually thereseems to be no (standard) way to change *0" on the fly05:29
ElerionWhat's the another way, can I add it manually somewhere?05:29
AakashPatelis it normal for when tyring to boot emulator (xephyr + scratchbox) in armel mode for it to shit its pants?05:30
derfAakashPatel: Apprently.05:31
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derfIt worked okay for prior release, but not maemo5.05:31
AakashPatelthat's gonna be a problem05:31
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derfI can't type tonight.05:31
ElerionD: s/*0"/APN/ doesn't say much to me.05:32
AakashPatelSo I guess to test my app I'll have to copy it over to the device and run it05:32
jebba900AakashPatel, croaks for me....05:33
* fireun is having fun after installing x11vnc05:33
derfAakashPatel: That's what everyone else does.05:33
derfBe happy you don't have to put it on an SD card with a USB adapter and then shove the card under the battery and reboot the device.05:34
derfWhich is what real embedded developers do.05:34
AakashPatelYeah I know :/05:34
AakashPatelI used to mess with ARM dev boards05:34
derfThen this should refreshingly easy!05:35
derf                be05:35
AakashPatelIs it possible to download the factory images that come with the N900?05:35
AakashPatelDo you have a link? I searched but couldnt find it05:35
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derfI've had this thing two whole days without having to flash it, which I think is a record for me and Maemo devices.05:37
AakashPatelHm, "root" command to get root shel?05:37
luke-jrsudo, duh?05:38
AakashPatel:P passwardz?05:38
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AakashPatelwhat the fuck05:40
AakashPatel"unable to uninstall rootsh05:40
jaem_AakashPatel, where are you installing it?05:40
AakashPateli was tryin to uninstall rootsh from the device lol05:41
jaem_AakashPatel, package will be up momentarily05:41
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AakashPatelwhat do you meant05:41
luke-jrdid that password actually work??\05:42
jaem_AakashPatel, I'm uploading the correctly-built libqt4-maemo5-dev package for you05:42
jaem_not sure what's up with the original one05:42
AakashPateljaem_, what do i add to sources.list?05:42
jaem_it actually may have been fixed since I checked, for all I know, but I couldn't contact the maintainer05:42
jaem_one sec05:42
AakashPatelI've tried adding a buncha shit but it comes back 40405:42
jaem_AakashPatel, this line05:42
jaem_deb fremantle free05:43
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jaem_and the same with a deb-src prefix if you want source packages as well05:43
jaem_be aware that that repo is very unstable, and you'd be advised to comment out the line once you have the qt packages installed05:43
AakashPateli wonder why the hell i cant unisntall rootsh05:43
AakashPateli will05:43
jaem_alternatively, you can use the qt 4.5 packages from extras, but they aren't modified to work with Maemo, and won't be05:44
AakashPatelis there a way to control the phone shell from the computer?05:44
AakashPatellike 'adb' on android?05:44
jaem_yep - just install the openssh-server package05:44
jaem_if you know your phone's IP, you could even access it remotely if you lose it05:45
jaem_say, to delete sensitive files05:45
AakashPatelcuz i dont wanna mess with scratchbox shit lol05:45
jaem_or to install text-to-speech and yell for help :P05:45
jaem_well, you'll have to use sbox for development05:45
jaem_s/have to/would be strongly advised to/05:45
AakashPatelwhat packages was i supposed to install?05:46
jebba900so how does one hit F1 etc in terminal?05:46
jaem_do an apt-cache search libqt4-maemo505:46
jaem_the packages are split into modules05:46
jaem_you'll want all of them, probably05:46
jaem_AakashPatel, you'll also need to install this overtop afterward:
jaem_that's the correct build05:47
jaem_just use dpkg -i05:47
AakashPatelbroken dependencies05:48
jaem_AakashPatel, message?05:48
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AakashPatelhold on05:48
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DocScrutinizer-8jebba: seems there's no simple way. for mc the plain numbers do05:49
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jaem_AakashPatel, :S05:49
jaem_version mismatch05:49
DocScrutinizer-8jebba900: or you may try to hit the generated esc sequence05:49
jaem_you could always build it yourself, and make sure you get it all righ05:49
jaem_but that may take a while, depending on our machine05:50
jaem_it is fully automated, though05:50
* fireun wishes there was a nokia exchange program for n770s, wants maemo505:50
jaem_oh wait05:50
jaem_never mind, I think I know05:50
jaem_AakashPatel, did you install my package first?05:50
jaem_let me check something05:50
AakashPatelOS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11 is newer than 1.2009.42-11.002 right?05:51
jaem_AakashPatel, I'm updating my sbox packages - let me see if I can figure this out05:52
jaem_it looks like the packaging may be in flux a bit - hardly surprising given its pre-release status05:53
jaem_let's see if this works...05:53
jebba900DocScrutinizer, this in htop...05:54
jaem_AakashPatel, is your sbox install up-to-date?05:54
AakashPateli did it like...2 days ago05:55
fireunanyone use x11vnc? not sure how to keep the background lit when there's mouse or keyboard input, keeps going dark too soon.05:55
jaem_AakashPatel, do you mind running an upgrade, just to humour me?05:55
AakashPatelhow do i?05:56
jaem_apt-get update05:56
jaem_fakeroot apt-get upgrade05:56
jaem_if it says packages have been held back, pastebin it to me05:56
jebba900DocScrutinizer, ah cool in htop you can just tap them05:56
AakashPatel libacl1 libattr1 linux-kernel-headers maemo-version maemo-version-dev mini-rc perl05:56
AakashPatel  perl-base perl-modules05:56
AakashPatelit upgraded those05:56
jaem_run fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade05:57
AakashPatel bsdutils libblkid1 mount05:57
AakashPatelthose are being upgraded now05:57
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jaem_try installing just libqt4-maemo5-dev now05:58
crashanddie_mbpjebba900: ?05:59
jaem_AakashPatel, is it pulling a bunch of dependencies with it?05:59
jaem_all the qt packages, more or less?05:59
jebba900crashanddie_mbp, if you are looking at scrollback igore. i typed crash and accidentally got nick completion05:59
jaem_AakashPatel, :) okay - you should be good, then06:00
jaem_you'll need to add Qt's bin path (in /opt) to your PATH, to get access to qmake and friends06:00
jaem_and also FYI, unless things have changed, it doesn't build all the dbus command line tools - if you need them, you can build them from the source packages (just tweak the debian/rules file a bit)06:01
jaem_I have to run, but I hope that works for you06:01
derfsvn: Server sent unexpected return value (405 Method Not Allowed) in response to MKCOL request for '/svn/gjiten/!svn/wrk/70b05d26-20c1-473c-929c-2f31d5408b65/www/dists/fremantle/user/binary-armel'06:01
AakashPatelthanks man06:01
derfGarage seems busted.06:01
AakashPatelnow back to my version question06:01
AakashPatelIs OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11 is newer than 1.2009.42-11.002?06:02
AakashPatelIf you make your app in Qt06:10
AakashPatelHow would the GUI look?06:10
jaem_AakashPatel, on Maemo5, it will be themed like a Maemo app06:11
jaem_as much as it can, automatically06:11
crashanddie_mbpjebba900: fair enough06:11
jaem_if it's a stock desktop Qt app, though, you'll need to modify the UI a bit, at least06:11
AakashPatelSo would i just use the standard Qt GUI stuff?06:11
jaem_and you may want to redo it to make it more suited for a mobile device06:11
jaem_but yes06:11
jaem_standard Qt will work fine out of the box06:11
AakashPatelwhat about notifications?06:11
jaem_for some values of fine :P06:11
jaem_AakashPatel, not sure06:12
AakashPatelLike the LED and stuff06:12
jaem_oh, that06:12
jaem_that's all DBus stuff06:12
jaem_well, the LED and the vibe, anyway06:12
AakashPatelEh so its still in C++06:12
jaem_search it up on for the DBus PI06:12
jaem_no, it's DBus06:12
AakashPateli mean to interface with it?06:12
jaem_and on-screen notifications (banner and such) are handled differently06:12
jaem_yes, it uses DBus, so you can use any language with DBus bindings06:12
AakashPateloh i see06:13
* AakashPatel hasnt used DBus before06:13
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jaem_AakashPatel, have fun >:)06:13
jaem_it takes some getting used to06:13
AakashPatelI shall :/06:13
* AakashPatel wonders how banner notifications are handled 06:14
jaem_AakashPatel, I think it's called hildon-banner06:15
jaem_it should be mentioned on the wiki06:15
AakashPatelyea isnt that GTK though?06:15
jaem_um, yes, but I'm not sure if you access it directly, or if it's DBus, or something else entirely06:15
jaem_haven't a clue ;)06:15
AakashPatelHm, maybe I'll just make the network stuff using QT and the GUI using GTK06:16
AakashPatelif thats possible o.O06:16
crashanddie_mbppossible, but highly not recommended06:16
jaem_just... don't06:16
AakashPateli see06:16
AakashPatelhah i wont06:16
crashanddie_mbpAakashPatel: the overhead of loading two completely separate libraries would be massive06:17
jaem_AakashPatel, see this page:
jaem_not sure what state it's in, but the Qt version of hildon-banner is out there now06:17
jaem_you'll probably have to compile it for now06:17
jaem_Qt4 for Maemo is slated to "officially" pass QA in Q1 2010, I belive06:18
jaem_it's still not finished06:18
jaem_but it works06:18
AakashPatelHm what would in your opinoin be easier, using GTK for the whole app, for QT06:18
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jaem_haven't used GTK, but the code looks scary06:19
asidjazztheres definitley apps on maemo select not in the app manager06:19
asidjazzjaem_: u good @ cpp?06:19
jaem_asidjazz, somewhat06:21
jaem_just heading for dinner - anything quick?06:21
* jaem_ will be ack06:22
asidjazzno i was just asknig06:22
asidjazzcuz you were look at gtk06:22
Macerosx + term + screen + irssi is goofy06:22
asidjazzi still havent dipped into it yet06:22
Macerlike the text keeps reversing on its own for some reason06:23
Macermaybe there is some odd option i missed06:23
* crashanddie_mbp is bored06:24
asidjazzthis in maemo Macer ?06:24
crashanddie_mbpasidjazz: osx in maemo?06:25
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Macerhm.. ok06:26
Macerwell. hopefully that did the job. guess xterm-color just sucks06:26
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AakashPatelIf i had an app in Qt06:29
AakashPatelCould I still use a protobuf lib compiled for cpp?06:29
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MacerAakashPatel: are you building on the n900 itself?06:30
Macerdoes it have like dev tools on the phone?06:30
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AakashPatelOh no06:30
Macerwow that's pretty awesome06:30
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Maceryeah. i figured it wouldn't haha06:30
AakashPateli dontsee why i couldnt06:30
Maceri tried to get that working in maemo4.. didn't work06:30
Macertry it and let me kno06:30
Macerknow lol06:31
AakashPatellol maybe :P06:31
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Maceri'm on my macbook. i haven't used the damn thing in like forever06:31
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crashanddie_mbpMacer: it worked fine on the n8x006:33
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AakashPatelwhen 'make'ing06:33
crashanddie_mbpMacer: a lot of people had a full python dev environment running or full gcc/g++ system06:34
AakashPatelinit.c:(.text+0x30): undefined reference to `main06:44
Macercrashanddie_mbp: lies!06:50
crashanddie_mbpAakashPatel: use an int main(void) in your file?06:51
crashanddie_mbpMacer: ?06:51
crashanddie_mbpMacer: liqbase was 100% built on an n81006:51
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AakashPatelI tried to compile that in the armel target in scratchbox06:52
AakashPatelerm hold on06:52
AakashPatelI'm getting that errro06:53
crashanddie_mbpbecause you didn't download the main.cpp?06:53
crashanddie_mbpI dunno dude06:53
crashanddie_mbpwhy the fuck would I know why some dodgy program doesn't compile?06:53
crashanddie_mbpcheck the source code, use your brains :)06:54
Maceri thought that was what apt was for06:54
crashanddie_mbpMacer: he's trying to do development06:54
AakashPatelAnd failing06:54
crashanddie_mbpor at least, running some piece of code06:54
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AakashPatelhow  can i run a GUI app from the terminal?07:07
AakashPatelI do rootsh /media/mmc1/test07:08
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AakashPatelbut it says Permission denied07:08
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AakashPatelwhy the hell is it permission denying me?07:15
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CutMeOwnThroatperhaps because you're underage07:15
AakashPatelbut srsly07:16
AakashPateldo you have a clue?07:16
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AakashPatelCutMeOwnThroat, Do you want to help me out?07:16
CutMeOwnThroata) dunno if you can use rootsh like that... b) ls -la /media/mmc1/test07:17
CutMeOwnThroatand c) there's a mountflag that allows executing07:17
AakashPatelI moved it over to MyDOcs07:18
* AakashPatel chmod 777's it07:19
CutMeOwnThroatchmod a+x yourfile07:20
AakashPatelit stays the same07:20
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CutMeOwnThroat(777 does it too, I mostly prefer the more obvious a+x and so on)07:20
AakashPatelidk why its staying rw-r--r-- though :/07:21
CutMeOwnThroatmmc1 is the external card... it's a fat filesystem07:21
AakashPateli moved it to MyDocs/test07:21
AakashPateland i'm in a root shell07:22
CutMeOwnThroatprobably something like mount /media/mmc1/ -o remount,fmask=000 does it07:23
AakashPatelbut its not on mmc1 anymore07:23
AakashPatelits on the phone's flash07:23
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CutMeOwnThroatyou also get permission denied if it's a shell scipt which has #!/somewhere/nonexecutablefile07:25
AakashPatelthis is compiled binary07:25
AakashPatela quick hello world in qt07:25
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CutMeOwnThroattry mount |grep noexec07:28
AakashPatelokay i ran it07:30
AakashPatel/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat07:30
AakashPatelwhere should i move it?07:31
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AakashPatelokay got it07:33
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AakashPateli tried in /var/tmp07:33
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CutMeOwnThroatyou can also remount vfat to allow all kinds of things, as I pointed out above07:34
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DocScrutinizer-8has anybody seen a manual for the tiny CA-148C usb-adapter that came with N900?07:51
DocScrutinizer-8I'd think using this adapter without proper instruction is rather scary07:52
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* lucent has N900 on pre-order, peeks in to see what he can see08:21
jiiv:/ not much, mine's just shipped Friday.08:22
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lucentit's exciting for me - I'm a long time Linux user and I was not thinking "wow" until the N900 caught my eye08:23
lucentnever had a phone with a data plan08:23
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jiivI've been addicted to my n810 for quite some time, but the n900 is really the first 'gadget' that has really excited me.08:24
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jiivthere's no telling how many times i refreshed dell's order page in the last month...08:25
lucentwhat pushed me to the point of buying it is my AT&T plan for basic nationwide service is more expensive than T-Mobile 3G with unlimited dataplan08:25
lucentlinux phone, works with cheaper phone service, have 3G coverage in my area... done deal.08:26
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lucentjiiv: have you any thoughts about protecting the phone from scratches?08:26
lucentI have never had an expensive phone - as I said above - so I'm nervous about what to do on a slider device08:27
jiivI ordered one of the zagg full body kits, but don't know how good it is or when it'll arrive.08:27
jiivhonestly i'm not too worried about the slider- my 810 is still very solid after a year or two of everyday use.08:27
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lucentah, yeah ordered a zagg here too... was backordered 2-3 weeks from then08:27
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lucentcool to hear that thanks08:28
lucentwhat was the battery run time of the N810?08:28
jiivno problem :) i've only spent about 10 minutes with a 900, but it seemed good too.08:28
jiivthe 810...well, with limited use it's good for definitely more than a day.08:28
lucentI don't know if I should compare N900 to a sub notebook or a cameraphone08:28
jiivif i work it really hard on wifi i can probably kill it in 4-6 hours?08:28
jiivit's between the two, really.08:28
lucentah, okay08:28
johnxI've had one since oct 9th. People have said that it scratches easily, but mine seems ok without a screen protector so far. Also, I'm not so worried about keeping it looking "totally new" at the cost of reduced touchscreen sensitivity...08:29
pekujaa day is ok08:29
pekujaless than that is not enough for a phone08:29
jiiveffectively it has as much power as a netbook, but much more portability.08:29
pekujaless than a day is just not very dependable08:30
jiivtrue. i honestly don't know how the 900 will last, but with recent firmware the reports have been pretty good.08:30
johnxthere are good ways to kill the battery for sure. Running the FM transmitter constantly is one. Or keeping some flash applet running in the browser for hours08:30
lucentjiiv: any idea if the zagg would interfere with IR wavelength light?08:30
jiivshouldn't, it's transparent.08:30
lucenttransparent to us08:30
lucentI don't know about IR08:30
jiivtrue ;)08:30
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jiivi believe the ir port is cutout on the zagg though.08:31
jiivdon't quote me, but i think that's the case.08:31
johnxthinking about the proximity sensor? I think someone already tested some screen protector and said it was ok08:31
johnxdunno if it was the zagg08:31
jiivyeah, there was a post on that.08:31
lucentokay so a slider with a zagg full body, then...  I'm worried about "butterfingers" dropping the thing or throwing it into a backpack of ski gear08:31
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jiivyeah...supposedly the zagg's tough; ski gear may not be a major issue unless you really crush it. but it's a very solid-feeling device.08:32
johnxhow sharp is your ski gear? :)08:32
lucentordering a CP321 was like pulling teeth, it's not available  in the USA08:32
lucentjohnx: depends if I'm running from the police or not that day? :P08:33
jiivah, case.08:33
jiivi kinda wish they'd included a sleeve like they did on the 810...the color scheme was kinda girly, but it's not a bad way to carry one.08:33
johnxlucent, if you're running from the police, you'll want the N900 in your pocket so you can easily grab it and throw it at them :)08:33
lucentah, okay so it's solid08:34
lucentvery good08:34
jiivnah, he needs it in hand so he can hack the traffic lights & cause a traffic jam like zero cool.08:34
lucentI'm only wishing N900 had an RFID reader08:34
jiivthat would be handy. it'll apparently do barcodes via mbarcode...08:35
jiivi haven't tried it (obviously, given my lack of a device), but the forums indicate that it's pretty good.08:35
lucentI never bothered to look since I was thinking it is a phone, does there exist some kind of USB host support?08:35
jiivno, though it's questionable whether it may happen at some point or not.08:36
lucentoh I thought it had to be in hardware08:36
jiivthat's sort of a big letdown, i use usb on my current nit all the time.08:36
lucentyears ago I jumped on the gadget train and bought a Sharp C3000, and then C310008:37
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lucentwith a special host adapter cable, it enabled host adapter mode08:37
jiivi'm not sure of the details, honestly. it's definite that it doesn't work out of the box, but some people seem to think it's possible.08:37
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jiivyeah, host mode is very handy for me. apparently some people never use it, but i'm going to miss it if it's not there. :/08:37
lucentyeah, I'd find it useful just to get a serial port going08:37
crashanddie_mbp_host mode would be awesome for more than one reason08:38
jiivi believe there are bluetooth to serial modules available?08:38
jiivbut yeah, usb drives in particular.08:38
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fredrinis host mode possible on the n900?08:38
jiivcurrently no usb host, but maybe someone can make something work.08:39
DocScrutinizer51host mode very likely possible for externally powerwd devices. seems it,s difficult to provide 5V to N900 receptacle from builtin bat08:39
cehtehit conflicts with the charge-over-usb specs so its a bit delicate08:39
fredrinit would be nice to be able to plugin usbsticks08:39
RST38hPoor tmo has become completely useless :(08:40
DocScrutinizer51nah. why does it conflict??08:40
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jiivi'd be fine with carrying a seperate power-injection device if necessary.08:40
cehtehi dont know the details, but i suspect there is a standard how power for charging is arbitated which will not work with gadgets08:41
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cehtehnote that charging can draw way more power than usb is normally permitted08:41
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cehtehand the charge circruit might not like/work with putting power out there08:41
lucentRST38h: tmo?  like tmobile08:42
DocScrutinizer51that's all moot points08:42
lucentoh okay I'm new08:42
jiivi'm not sure which he meant either, actually :)08:42
jiivkinda wish the two weren't the same acronym...08:42
cehtehwell if it is electically impossible then it would be rather tough08:42
DocScrutinizer51there,s even an official charger spec supplement to usb-otg08:42
lucentnervous also about the $50 rebate, can I sign up for ovi store from wifi connection or do I need a 3G/EDGE connection for any reason?08:42
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RST38hAnd irc appears to be helpless too...08:43
cehtehDocScrutinizer: other way around or?08:43
cehtehor they just didnt implement that spec but just client mode and the (now EU offical) spec for charging cell phones over usb08:43
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cehtehofficially the n900 does not support usb otg .. point08:44
cehtehanything around that would pure hacking08:44
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DocScrutinizer-8cehteh: notice OTG isn't exactly what we want. Hostmode would keep everybody smiling. OTG is useless fancy crap mostly08:46
t_s_ohmm, the battery charge spec say that one can draw upto 1.5A at low or full speed. thats quite a bit more then the 500mA that usb 2.0 normally allows...08:46
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DocScrutinizer-8so what?08:47
jiivyeah, host is fine.08:47
DocScrutinizer-8that's for chargers08:47
cehtehDocScrutinizer: yes sure, but i dont know some tell the hardware is incapable of host mode (maybe just some wrong directed diode?) others say its just not certified because of lack of software08:47
cehtehbut i am pretty sure that you can fry your device when you dont exactly know what you are doing there08:48
DocScrutinizer-8yes, and nobody knows details08:48
cehtehseen the charging n990 from freerunner thing?08:48
DocScrutinizer-8I closed the ticket on OM-trac08:49
cehtehwell i dont want my n900 turning into a brick if molten plastic :)08:49
DocScrutinizer-8point taken08:49
jaem_jiiv, (re tmo), is generally written lowercase, with periods "t.m.o", as opposed to T-Mo08:50
cehtehi dont know the electrical details about charger/host mode but normally there are some protecting circruits on usb ports, fuses, antilpolar diodes and such08:50
jaem_but yes, it is a bit ambiguous sometimes08:50
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cehtehit needs some hardware support for making it possible08:50
jiivjaem_: yeah :/ i've seen them both in a variety of ways.08:50
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jaem_jiiv, heh, yeah08:51
DocScrutinizer-8cehteh: yes. exactly08:51
cehtehchargin pull the 2 data lines up with a 200 ohm resistor iirc .. but i dont know more08:51
t_s_oheh, reading about otg, i would love to see all usb 3 or at some later point, be basically otg as long as they can be self-powered...08:51
lucentbluetooth serial might work for my uses, erg08:52
t_s_othat is, make all self-powered devices peers, rather then host/node, or whatever its called...08:52
DocScrutinizer-8cehteh: no, chargers short the D+ with D-08:52
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lucentshame I can't re-use my usb gadgets with the N900 out of the box08:52
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: or that .... but over a resistor08:52
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cehtehi am thinking about building a charge circruit from my bike dynamo .. when i do that i look into the details08:53
cehtehbut first i need a n900 :P08:53
cehtehthen a rugged case ..08:53
* jaem_ gives cehteh an N90008:53
cehtehso .. prolly in summer :P08:53
jaem_oh, you mean a *real* one08:54
DocScrutinizer-8cehteh: the resistor has 0..20  Ohms iirc ;-D08:54
cehtehprolly nokia will drop maemo in favor of symbian just when i receive mine08:55
DocScrutinizer-8doubt that08:55
cehtehapple cancled the newton after i brought one08:55
DocScrutinizer-8N900 sells like cold beer in summer08:55
t_s_osymbian is a even greater mess, thing is tho that nokia at some level still wants clearly defined devices rather then general computers...08:55
cehtehwell i am confident with the n900 because its sufficiently open enough to last longer than nokia might be interested08:56
cehtehbtw has the internal micro sd port sdio capabilities?08:57
cehtehis that even possible?08:57
cehtehwould open it for some hacks :)08:57
t_s_oi think micro-sd can be sdio yes, but about the n900 supporting it, no clue. hell, i dont even know why they would as it seems sdio is a solution looking for a problem...08:58
DocScrutinizer-8you talk about real uSD, not internal MMC I guess? Anyway, no idea08:58
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crashanddie_mbpcehteh: I've used smart uSDs and communicated with them successfully08:59
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crashanddie_mbpcehteh: though, it's not real SDIO08:59
cehtehah nice .. well thats a start09:00
lucentcehteh: ;)09:00
cehtehwell half as usefull since its not an external sd port .. but well09:01
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crashanddie_mbpdepends for whom09:01
DocScrutinizer-8aiui there's an internal USB bus. If you want to hack the hardware09:01
* cehteh adds that to the long list of wishes 09:01
lucentsdio is a very tightly licensed and controlled consortum specification09:01
lucent(I heard this from rockbox music firmware developers)09:01
cehtehcompass, external SDIO, dual SIM, biggier battery ...09:02
cehtehlucent: yes but the kernel has drivers for sdio09:02
crashanddie_mbpthere are ways around -- SDIO is an implementation of a good idea, there are other implementations09:02
DocScrutinizer-8dual SIM, yeah09:02
cehtehcrashanddie_mbp: well there is no wired bus at all where the n900 can play master09:02
lucentI don't know any phone with dual SIM though09:02
cehtehethernet jack! :)09:03
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cehtehlucent: compass and this broken gps might be the dealbreaker for me09:03
crashanddie_mbpI had a prototype uSD card where basically I used a control file and another keepalive file, to which I would write/read commands09:03
DocScrutinizer-8I know a phone with triple sim09:03
lucentif it makes and receives calls, then I will be very happy with it09:04
cehtehactually i hope to see the gps (without network) fixed before my device arrives09:04
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cehtehhow much power draws the gps btw?09:04
DocScrutinizer-8though YMMV09:05
cehtehwell, i want gps running with light use for 6-8hours at least .. and preferably no agps but standalone09:06
cehtehif that doesnt work i send it back09:07
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cehtehalready having no compass demotivated me09:07
lucenttough to please, eh09:08
johnxcehteh, "GPS running" as in recording a track? or is "standby" ok, where it will get a fix in a couple seconds?09:08
t_s_owant to jump on the AR fad?09:08
DocScrutinizer-8johnx: exactly the point09:08
cehtehjohnx: fix in standlone mode seems to be broken ... partly due the crappy gps chip they use, partly due software problems09:09
cehtehand that they dont open the specs so that anyone hacks around the software problems is really disgusting09:09
johnxcehteh, so you're planning to be using GPS without a net connection 6-8 hours every day?09:09
johnxdo you live on a mountain?09:09
DocScrutinizer-8nah, it probably just takes a bit longer and needs better signal for first fix09:09
johnxDocScrutinizer-8, nah. it's pretty unlikely to get a fix without a net connection, it seems09:10
cehtehjohnx: where i live i dont need gps .. but when on vacation in mountains on some foreign country yes then i need exactly that09:10
DocScrutinizer-8johnx: bummer09:11
johnxcehteh, cancel your order09:11
cehtehguess so09:11
cehtehwell i keep it up for now and wait ... maybe someone has a idea/fix09:11
johnxsome people have been working on some way to pre-cache the information needed09:11
cehtehyeah .. success so far?09:11
johnxnothing yet09:12
cehtehi seen that but didnt seen results09:12
johnxif you think that there will be a 100% solution soon and you'll be possed if there isn't, then you should probably just avoid it09:12
RST38hah, ehlo johnx09:12
johnxmornin' RST38h09:12
cehtehand really isnt that the normal use case for gps that you need it when you are not at home but in some rual area, prolly in some foreign country09:12
* johnx attempts to 'manage expectations'09:12
cehtehwhere you dont have net at all or at best expensive data roaming?09:13
johnxa pre-paid sim might do the trick09:13
johnxyou'd have to see on a case-by-case basis09:13
cehtehand a pocket-cell tower for the areas where there is no net at all09:13
johnxbut if you're hiking in mountains, relying on a phone GPS...well, maybe you can afford a standalone GPS with money from the Darwin award you get09:14
* RST38h does not understand what the problem is09:14
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RST38hN900 does not work with external BT GPS units?09:14
DocScrutinizer-8heh, AGPS is just to cache or get just in time the data of ephem and almanac from net, but *every* GPS chipset can download the full data from sat in max 12 min09:14
johnxRST38h++ :)09:14
cehtehyes i just liked the idea to have all in one device, its a toy anyways09:14
lucentwow, so I should probably keep my GPSlim236 around09:15
cehtehRST38h: yes it does .. i know some people who use BT GPS and a n80009:15
johnx$20 and a tiny dongle to carry is a pretty small price to pay when you need GPS09:15
lucentnow there's a good reason why I bought it years ago ;)09:15
cehtehbut its really a shame that doesnt work09:15
cehtehand you have 2 devices to charge and carry .. BT draws power too and still no compass09:16
DocScrutinizer-8RST38h: sure it does - at least it claims to do09:16
johnxI'd actually be willing to bet that using a BT GPS draws less power out of the N900 than using it's internal GPS09:17
cehtehi wonder if gps or bt draws more power ... prolly gps because of a lot calculations09:17
DocScrutinizer-8johnx: yep09:17
cehtehbt should draw much less power than wlan too or?09:18
johnxalso: RST38h was being sarcastic I do believe :)09:18
* cehteh thinks about networking over bt instead wlan when my laptop is in reach09:19
DocScrutinizer-8cehteh: depends on WLAN mode: 10mW or 100mW09:19
johnxit really doesn't09:19
johnxwhat it does depend on is ad-hoc vs infrastructure09:19
cehtehdoes it adjust automatically?09:19
cehtehwell infrastructure here .. with powermanagement09:20
johnxit sleeps when it's not transmitting/receiving, but *only* if it's in infrastructure mode09:20
cehtehi know09:20
johnxOTOH, running at 10mW is likely to end up with the client retransmitting due to dropped frames (or so says some guy at Nokia on a message board long ago)09:21
DocScrutinizer-8more precise it's sending "beacons" all the time in adhoc09:21
cehtehdoesnt it adjust power automatically?09:22
cehtehall wlan devices i know are capable of that09:22
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DocScrutinizer-8never heard of09:22
johnxuhm, it adjusts to *off*09:22
johnxthat's just about the best power adjustment you can get really09:22
cehtehhey you get S/N ratio .. if its going bad you increase transmit power09:23
cehtehthats not rocket science09:23
cehtehiirc in infrastructure mode the access point can tell clients when their signal is too weak09:23
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DocScrutinizer-8there's no quality-of-transmission feedback from AP to client09:24
cehtehare you 100% sure?09:24
cehtehiirc there is09:24
RST38hcehteh: Then N900 GPS shortcomings are unpleasant but not a show stopper09:24
RST38hNothing to whine about for so long09:24
cehtehRST38h: for me its very close to a show stopper09:25
johnxcehteh, DocScrutinizer: [*] citation needed :)09:25
cehtehi guess thats everyones personal decision09:25
johnxcehteh, just make sure that whatever you get instead of an N900 actually does what you think it does09:25
cehtehi already expected a compass .. which i now decided 'maybe i go without it'09:25
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DocScrutinizer-8johnx: for what exactly? :-)09:25
johnxDocScrutinizer-8, for the "AP sends quality of received frame" thing. You both recalled differently09:26
DocScrutinizer-8in N810 there's a option 10/100mW09:26
DocScrutinizer-8in N900 too iirc09:26
cehtehjohnx: well there is no direct alternative .. i dont need a phone that urgendly, but a tablet, camera (small always with me) and a gps in combination, running on a free OS have no competition currently09:27
johnxin the N810 it was for local FCC-type compliance09:27
DocScrutinizer-8the QoS thing is just from monitor mode and bisecting every packet09:27
DocScrutinizer-8personal experience09:27
cehtehRST38h: yes i know these dongles09:28
johnxDocScrutinizer-8, yeah. I was just trying to be funny, since you both said opposite things. think nothing of it :)09:28
cehtehits just a shame that the n900's gps is that crappy and no compass, thats what i am whine about09:28
RST38hthey are not dongles, no wires09:29
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DocScrutinizer-8edit connection accept accept... extended settings other09:30
DocScrutinizer-8WLAN power: 10 / 100mW09:30
DocScrutinizer-8on N900 exactly same as on N81009:31
cehtehno other steps 30 50 70 mw?09:32
johnxyup. Knew about that for a while. I was referring to the other thing: about the AP not sending back info on quality to the client09:32
johnxcehteh, it's an FCC compliance thing09:32
johnxit's not for power saving purposes09:33
cehtehwell 10mW are unuseable unless you are really next to the AP09:33
DocScrutinizer-8strange, as the 11 vs 13chan is done hidden from user09:34
cehtehTX power: 15 dBm (31.62 mW)09:34
cehtehDocScrutinizer: depends on location09:34
cehtehiirc channel 13 is Japan only09:34
cehtehdunno about 1109:34
DocScrutinizer-8nah, germany as well iirc09:34
cehtehnope germany not for sure09:35
cehtehi am in germany :)09:35
johnxI think Japan actually gets 13 or 1409:35
cehtehheh you too :P09:35
johnxone more than the N800 supported at least :)09:35
cehtehchannel 13 is illegal here even if some devices export it09:35
cehtehso my laptop adjusts power level for TX09:36
cehteh                   iwconfig eth0 txpower auto09:36
DocScrutinizer13  2,472  Europa, Japan09:36
* lucent notices nobody has made a riff on 4chan09:36
johnxlucent, in my case at least, I like to pretend it doesn't exist most of the time :)09:38
lucentyeah I'm kind of browsing it at "I heard from so-and-so at work the other day" distance09:38
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Sargun how do I add another photosharing service?09:56
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andre__Sargun, like?10:11
andre__as a user? as a developer?10:11
andre__Sargun, for an easier life: wait a few weeks until bug 6177 will be resolved. for the hackish way: check out the code diffs in bug 5300.10:13
povbot`Bug Consider pushing sharing-dialog-dev to nokia-binaries to encourage developer usage of sharing dialog10:13
povbot`Bug Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager10:13
andre__I also hope that something's written about it in
Myrtti would anyone want to do me a small, small, veryvery small widget? It needs to do have one button and two functions10:19
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Proteousthe button would be labled "bacon"10:20
Proteousthe two functions would be to produce bacon and coffee10:20
Myrttione of the functions is "reset" and the other is that when the widget is tapped, the number on it increases by one.10:20
Proteousmost awesome widget ever10:20
Myrttireset would naturally reset the counter to 010:20
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MyrttiI'm sure there is several usecases for such a counter, but I'd need it for my knitting to keep track of the rows of stiches I've done, or tens of stiches made10:22
Myrttior I'll just learn python/whatever and do it myself...10:23
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Ashenburgany of you familiar with drnoksnes? is there a way to edit the controller layout?10:29
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Myrttimeh. I'm looking at pygtk tutorial and hating it already10:38
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RST38hLadies and gentlemen! I am happy to announce that thanks to Clive Crous, Vulture's Eye works perfectly on N900 now10:44
RST38hJust needs some packaging.10:45
jiivwoot! um...what's that?10:45
Ashenburgsweet, I never tried nethack :)10:45
jiivoh, it's a nethack? excellent.10:45
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pekujaa graphical version10:48
jiivoh...i'm not sure how i feel about that.10:48
pekujaI'm sure the text version works just fine too10:48
jiivkk :)10:49
pekujabut then maybe  on a small device you would want some sort of GUI10:49
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pekujabut I suppose the keyboard works pretty well for nethack too10:49
jiivit seems to. i have one (dungeon crawl i think?) on my 810 and it's fine for me.10:49
jiivshould hopefully receive my n900 this week some time.10:50
pekujait's Sunday10:50
pekujaoh, you live in the part of the world where Sunday starts the week10:50
jiivyes :)10:50
pekujaI'm hoping to get mine next week ;-)10:50
pekujawhich starts tomorrow10:50
pekujabut I don't really know.10:51
jiivbest of luck with that :) dell apparently finally shipped mine friday, but i still have no tracking information. :/10:51
pekujaDell sells them?10:51
jiivi haven't been excited about a new device in years, but now i'm like a kid waiting on christmas presents.10:51
jiivthey just resell for nokia, i believe.10:52
jiivthey had an excellent deal on november 5th, so i preordered through them.10:52
pekujahow much was it?10:53
jiivi believe it was $473 US, or something close to that after shipping and tax.10:54
pekujanot bad10:54
pekujaI ordered mine from my operator10:54
jiivwell, won't be bad if it ever arrives. :/ i'd started doubting that.10:54
jiivoh? who do you use?10:54
pekujait comes to about 550 euros during two years10:54
jiivi'll pretend i know who that is. :) where do you live?10:55
pekujaI know some people who ordered from them have already received their devices10:55
pekujawhich is encouraging10:55
jiivi'd figured looked Finnish, but i'm not terribly familiar with it.10:55
pekujathey're a smaller operator here anyways10:56
jiivyes, having people who ordered from the same place receive their devices is both encouraging and terribly annoying...several people who ordered from dell after i did ended up getting them a couple weeks ago. :/10:56
jiivah. none of our operators are selling them yet over here.10:56
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AshenburgRST38h: how do you play VE? with the keyboard or can you use the touchscreen?10:57
jiivwhoa, i just saw some screenshots of vulture's eye. that is sort of neat.10:57
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jiivi believe it's about my bedtime, have a great evening. good luck on getting your n900, pekuja.11:01
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Sargundoes it do doom yet?11:02
pekujawell, it does Quake 311:08
pekujadunno about Doom11:08
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lucentI pre-ordered N900 from Amazon when it was 519.99 usd and received notice that it *might* ship 2009-12-11 or later11:09
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lucentit's only mildly inconvenient since I can't get a screen protector for it any earlier than that anyhow11:10
pekujaI think I'll just get a case of some sort for it11:12
pekujalike the one that came with N81011:12
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lucentoh and I'm in the USA so getting the Nokia CP321 case for the N900 ... had to go to eBay for that11:13
lucentUK seller that ships internationally11:13
pekujathe CP321 looks nice11:13
pekujaI'll probably get one of those11:14
pekujacan you attach that to a belt or something though?11:14
pekujalooks like just a plain case11:14
lucentit's just an official slip case11:16
lucentI need something to keep it from getting whacked when riding in my backpack11:17
lucentzagg invisibleshield + slip case... for now11:17
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pekujaI'd like a belt clip case11:20
pekujabut the slip case might be fine too11:20
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lucentbelt clips _never_ work well for me11:20
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lucentalways end up in a dropped phone11:20
pekujaI haven't really used them to be honest11:21
pekujaperhaps slip case + pocket is better11:21
lucentoh, well I'm not totally advising against using a belt clip11:21
pekujaI just have my current phone in my pocket without any case11:21
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lucentjust that if you do, expect to toast your phone every now and then and buy / reimburse a new one11:21
lucentif work pays for the phone, belt clip is much more convenient11:22
lucenthave them buy you a new one when it meets the impending doom11:22
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pekujamaybe you're right11:23
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fluxdoes anyone have a link to the osso-xterm keymap bindings list? I've lost my link.. apparently it's not in its sources either, nor in gtk/gdk?11:32
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fluxI suppose I just suck at searching, because it's this that finally decodes the values: gdk_keyval_from_name(key_start)11:41
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fluxah, of course the map must be in gdk sources, not in its dev-headers11:42
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johnx~lart XDMCP for being a PITA11:49
* infobot pulls out his louisville slugger and uses XDMCP's head to break the homerun record for being a PITA11:49
SpeedEvillucent: on the stupid hacks front.11:50
SpeedEvillucent: I currently have cling film as my screen protector.11:50
SpeedEvillucent: breath on the display, then carefully stretch film across one broad edge of screen, and lower it down onto screen, while keeping film taught.11:51
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GAN900Morning, everybody.11:52
SpeedEvilThen trim with scissors, and apply a 4mm line of tape around it.11:52
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Meizirkkimorning GAN90011:52
StskeepsGAN900: how's bcn so far?11:52
SpeedEvilfew bubbles if you do it right, and lasts OK with the stylus. fingernails can tear11:52
cehteheww :P11:53
GAN900Stskeeps, amazing11:53
johnxI don't think I ever did end up with any scratches in my N800's *screen*11:53
* cehteh usually used cold laminator foil, for the n900 i now brought a screen protector for the first time11:53
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cehteh.. well still waiting for the device :P11:54
StskeepsGAN900: still think maemo is going to hell? :P11:54
johnxGAN900, good thing you got your passport, eh?11:54
SpeedEvilcehteh: I have a protector on order too.11:54
Myrttiwhat version of ubuntu should I have to install maemo 5 sdk?11:54
Myrttiwould hardy do? I'd prefer it because it's lts11:54
cehtehapplying the cold laminator foil with destilled water and isopropanole mixture, no bubbles, but takes a few days to settle11:55
MekI'm running hardy and never had problems with the maemo 5 sdk, so should work11:55
Myrttiand no, I don't want to read the documentation. I've done that for the past 6 months.11:55
cehtehi have some for *years* on some devices now11:55
MyrttiMek: thanks.11:55
cehtehsome quite scratched .. maybe i shall reapply a new one on my gps for example :P11:56
GAN900Stskeeps, well, not in the 2-months-ago context, but not sure about Maemo 6.11:56
GAN900Was out until 4 AM last night with a bunch of people11:56
GAN900I'm done today. <_<11:57
fluxthe keymap url in case anyone else has use for it:
SpeedEvilproper screen protectors these days have the soft silicone backing which just sticks11:58
MyrttiSpeedEvil: and would last in my use about a week11:58
thomastpcehteh: where did you buy screen protector for n900 ?11:59
SpeedEvilMyrtti: ?11:59
cehtehsome internet shop .. i already regret it, way to expensive and they spamed me already11:59
cehtehgoogle around there are plenty12:00
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SpeedEvilI got
SpeedEvilUnsure how well it will work12:00
GAN900johnx, yes.12:00
Clok not very expensive cover12:01
GAN900Anybody see the updated page?12:01
Myrttithen of course, I need a N900.12:01
Myrttiand I just spent my budget for shopping stuff for three months yesterday12:01
cehtehi got a DuraSec HighTec .. but it feels rubberish, not even sure how it performs on the real device12:02
MyrttiI bloody well hope the mattress will take some of my back pain away12:02
cehtehits quite thick so it might give good protection .. to be seen12:02
Gadgetoidmy god, do you guys ever sleep12:02
MyrttiGadgetoid: timezones, ever heard?12:02
Gadgetoidi want an N900 case with a non crappy stand built in12:02
Myrtti2009-12-06 12:02:3112:02
johnxGAN900, Looks nice. I'm almost sure the "Talk forums" link shouldn't point to "" though12:02
johnxGadgetoid, we don't sleep. We wait.12:02
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Clokare those rubber cases any good?12:03
Gadgetoidwhat are you waiting for johnx?12:03
cehtehwait until my case is finished ... :)12:03
Myrttiafter I'm done with my Christmas present knitting, I'll knit a pouch for my N80012:04
cehtehdid i saied that i need the device first? :P12:04
johnxGadgetoid, waiting for my shiny new laptop to ship (or for them to tell me they won't ship it. either one really)12:04
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GAN900johnx, ah, oops. I blame Dave. ;)12:05
Gadgetoidjohnx i had that with the core i7 imac12:05
GAN900Also, the "Contributing to the wiki" article.12:05
johnxGadgetoid, yeah, thing is that I'm kinda worried the price they posted was an accident and I'm not sure if they'll honor it...12:07
Gadgetoidand the n900.. i never really believed theyd honor the cheeky discounts12:07
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Gadgetoidthere's a toyota starlet wheel in my back garden... i feel so chavvy12:08
johnxGadgetoid, keen. what year?12:08
GAN900Our fearless leader is really good at ordering tapas.12:08
Myrttigod i need that widget12:09
TermanaGadgetoid - bit old discussion, but still - don't let any of these people fool you, they are vampires, they stay up till 4 in the morning and then hide away from the sun all day12:09
johnxgod I need a tapa12:09
MyrttiI've miscalculated my rows again :-(12:09
GadgetoidI'm a curry man12:09
Myrttithis will end up a shitty beret12:09
johnxTermana, yeah. I hide away at work, though actually my coworkers make me keep the blinds closed so they don't get glare on their screens ... hmmm12:09
Gadgetoidsound about rightt termana... timezones are a poor excuse12:10
TermanaMyrtti: Gadgetoid's curry?12:10
Gadgetoidring burn12:10
MyrttiTermana: :-(12:10
fluxrecently there was some demo about synchronizing pc firefox with the n900 browser, anyone have an url handy?12:10
johnxMyrtti, don't feel bad. I've had really poor luck making curry into any decent sort of hat. :|12:10
Gadgetoidflux real geeks remember all the important urls12:11
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fluxgadgetoid, yes :(12:11
Myrttimeh. I'm trying to knit a christmas present to my sister and I need a row counter :-/12:11
Myrttiyou're no fun12:11
DocScrutinizer51johnx, I did some tests with GPS and it's mostly behaving great. With and w/o AGPS net download. I,d dare to say it's obviously storing the seed data and reuses it on next start. Nevertheless I had a really hard time to put it to work when zthat data was "old" and network connectivity was supposed to be there but had stalled.12:11
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johnxDocScrutinizer-8, yup. the problem is when it only has data to work with that's more than, say, half a day old12:12
Gadgetoidflux mainly because most of them contain a small subset of related words... such as wet, teens, nubile, win12:12
johnxand especially if you've moved a good distance since your last fix12:12
johnxflux, was it about fennec?12:13
fluxjohnx, ah, I think it was12:13
DocScrutinizer51johnx, that's kinda known common problem with all GPS. you can confuse hell out of chipset when uploading "wrong" data to it12:14
Gadgetoidsync tabs?12:14
DocScrutinizer51johnx, you know the filename of the seed file?12:15
SpeedEviljohnx: ""12:15
johnxDocScrutinizer-8, nope. look in /var maybe?12:15
DocScrutinizer51maybe I'm too tired12:16
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Gadgetoidcafeworld is retarded12:16
johnxGadgetoid, a world where the only businesses are cafes?12:16
johnxI'd put on some weight there, for sure12:17
Gadgetoidthe facebook game, designed to draw gameplay over long and agonizing hours which you spend wholly alone instead of in an immersive social environment like  world of warcraft12:18
DocScrutinizer51johnx, I,d suggest to check internet connectivity prior to gps start. if no ping: delete too old file and disable network support setting for gps12:18
johnxGadgetoid, huh. is it anything like working at a cafe?12:18
fluxjohnx, thank you. although it's not as useful as I hoped, as it'd also require switching to that browser..12:19
johnxDocScrutinizer51, I'm actually trying to abuse lsof into cluing me in on what happens when I get an assisted fix12:19
johnxhaven't caught it in the act yet though12:19
Gadgetoidno johnx... it totally lacks hot, coffee drinking chicks12:19
DocScrutinizer51johnx, I'm not sure if that,ll pan out. probably short read and closing file12:20
Gadgetoidi'm drinking ceylon tea because i watched too much battlestar12:20
johnxGadgetoid, but does it include a simulation of deepfrying hashbrowns and french fries, leaving you with the smell of grease permanently embedded in your skin?12:20
Gadgetoidno johnx... it doesnt seem to12:21
DocScrutinizer51johnx, I tried to find new files (mdate) __ fail12:21
Gadgetoidwords for the morning: i made a poo daddy12:21
johnxGadgetoid, well, then it could be worse. you at least get minimum wage for playing, right?12:21
johnxDocScrutinizer-8, interesting, I was about to use a much more crude version of that same tactic12:22
tigertnew gpodder in repo12:22
johnxtigert, doom upside down?12:22
tigertsome new stuff we worked on yesterday12:22
DocScrutinizer51johnx, anyway I think without any file chipset is better off than with "wrong" one12:22
tigertjohnx: :) ¡ɯɐuʇǝıʌ 'ƃuıuɹoɯ pooƃ12:23
tigertnot everything we sketched is in the new release yet though12:23
Gadgetoidno johnx... i would lose money opotentially... it makes no sense!12:23
DocScrutinizer51johnx, and not even trying to access internet is clearly better than waiting for response never to come12:23
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johnxGadgetoid, I have a better game for you then. It doesn't pay any money either, but you get to sit at my desk and answer support tickets for 8 hours, 5 days a week. interested?12:24
johnxDocScrutinizer51, you really think it's blocking trying to access the net?12:24
johnxthat'd be pretty silly12:24
DocScrutinizer51johnx, I suspect that, yes12:25
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johnxhuh. maybe there is hope for improving it with some simple hacks then...12:25
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Gadgetoid_iMachell no johnx, I left "tech requests" behind when I was made redundant12:27
DocScrutinizer51johnx, yeah. like I suggested above12:28
Gadgetoid_iMacAnd then turned from being a DotNet developer to a PHP developer overnight12:28
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johnxGadgetoid_iMac, is that change a good thing or bad thing?12:28
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DocScrutinizer51johnx, first test: disable network support in gps setup prior to starting it with a obsolete data12:29
Gadgetoid_iMacjohnx, it's simultaneously good and bad... but at least it's for a company that does both DotNet and PHP so I can bounce merrily from language to language like a sexually confused emo12:29
* Gadgetoid_iMac looks up how best to cook bacon roast chicken12:30
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johnxGadgetoid_iMac, well that sounds ... convenient?12:31
Gadgetoid_iMacjohnx, Yeah I had the new job before I even volunteered redundancy at my last one, which I'd been secretly willing to make me redundant for the best part of a year... what a lovely recession!12:31
Gadgetoid_iMacAnd self employment means I get a tax refund on the cost of my tools... which just so happen to be computers... aaaah!12:32
DocScrutinizer51johnx, setup location network12:32
johnxit was the best of recessions, it was the worst of recessions?12:32
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Gadgetoid_iMacthe *blurst of recessions12:32
DocScrutinizer51johnx, directly above field for AGPS server url12:33
johnxah! I didn't know that was exposed in the GUI12:34
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Gadgetoid_iMacI can't even test AGPS without a SIM *weeps*12:35
DocScrutinizer51found GPAjinni a great testtool12:35
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I had some anomolous results.12:36
DocScrutinizer51go ahead12:36
SpeedEvilWhich looked like the GPS timing out after a minute and a bit if it diddn't get a lock, with only gspjinni12:36
SpeedEvilwith teh location applet open too, it worked better12:37
DocScrutinizer51can't reproduce12:37
SpeedEvilI need to do more testing - but need to wait for the fix to get stal12:37
* Gadgetoid_iMac wants GPSD so his N900 can serve his netbook via his MiFi12:37
Gadgetoid_iMacMiFi GPS enabling software STILL hasn't arrived12:38
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Gadgetoid_iMacMobile wifi router, pekuja12:39
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil, find the file. Delete it ;-)12:39
SpeedEvilyeah - that12:39
SpeedEvilI need to work out how to install proper findutils12:39
DocScrutinizer51  >xxx; gpsjinni; find / -newer xxx12:40
sejohey all can someone tell me what repo to use best? (using fremantle and diablo)12:40
Gadgetoid_iMacI've written a PHP ajax framework that kinda emulates update panels in a way12:41
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Gadgetoid_iMacsejo I've been throwing stuff from extras-devel on my device like it's going out of fashion, and no problem syet12:41
Gadgetoid_iMacmplayer -framedrop porn.avi  ftw!12:41
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sejoGadgetoid: and is that the fremantle or the diablo?12:42
sejoGadgetoid: does it have skype?12:42
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil, ^ this *basically* works12:42
Gadgetoid_iMacErr, you want to avoid diablo- although much of it will work the UI will be agonisingly difficult to use12:42
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johnxsejo, what device do you have?12:42
Gadgetoid_iMacOf course I assume you've got an N90012:43
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sejojohnx: n90012:45
lardmandoes dh_install in dh5 support the -X flag?12:45
Gadgetoid_iMacThen avoid diablo, sejo, unless there's an application you absolutely must have12:46
johnxsejo, you probably don't want to use diablo repositories12:46
johnxthe device *comes with* skype voice chat, and AFAIK, there is no skype video released yet12:46
Gadgetoid_iMacI added diablo for FBReader, for example, but it's already been dropped unmodified into fremantle12:46
sejoso fremantle it is?12:46
Gadgetoid_iMacAnd I can't seem to find the magical way of binding keys that everyone else has found in FBReader12:46
sejojohnx: well here skype says it's enabled but can't get it online?12:47
johnxthe repositories available are: extras (safest), extras-testing (alpha, beta, unstable stuff) and extras-devel (potentially very b0rken stuff)12:47
johnxsorry. no idea why skype isn't working for you12:47
Gadgetoid_iMacWorst extras can do, in my opinion, is fill up my filesystem with orphaned shit12:47
Gadgetoid_iMacextras-devel, even12:48
kynkymozilla repository, nokia repository, nokia system update repository, then some user repositries12:48
johnxGadgetoid_iMac, or put an init script in that makes your device fail to boot, forcing a reflash12:48
Gadgetoid_iMacjohnx hasn't happened yet... fingers crossed12:48
Gadgetoid_iMacBut that's not bad, a reflash clears out the crud anyway!12:49
johnxGadgetoid_iMac, just saying. Don't suggest that new users all go out and enable extras-testing and extras-devel12:49
lardmanI suppose devs should just try pushing more stuff to -testing once it's not killing devices, so users can try it out12:49
kynkydf -h is handy in xterm12:49
Gadgetoid_iMacjohnx, I think they should, and if they brick their device and ebay it, we've struck down a noob in furious vengeance! mwahaha12:49
lardmanbtw, what happens when I upgrade a package, do I need to push it to -testing again?12:49
lardmaneven if it's mine?12:50
kynkyalways needs to be tested i assume, new version migt have diff bugs12:50
RST38hand it has to be voted upon again12:50
lardmanyeah, ok12:50
Gadgetoid_iMacBut, unfortunately, some genius decides to stick a gsm radio in the n900, making it freakin' noob central12:50
johnxGadgetoid_iMac, great attitude :/12:50
Ashenburghehe is rootfs the disk you're not suppose to fill up?12:51
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lardmanroot filesystem, yes12:51
kynkygsm radio is well handy, 3.5g data pretty good for connectivity12:51
Ashenburgno more installs for a while then, it's at 95% :p12:51
lardmanworks well for me12:51
johnxAshenburg, yeah. the root fs, aka '/'12:51
lardmanAshenburg: :)12:51
Gadgetoid_iMacjohnx, hell yes :) death to noobs!12:52
kynkyAshenburg, sometimes a reboot clears space, but dont rely on it12:52
lardmanGadgetoid_iMac: Although I would probably agree with your sentiment, this is supposed to be a fairly mainstream device, not something sold with a warning that you must hack12:52
lardmantherefore, users need to be protected from dangerous things12:52
Dantonicis there a way to turn off GSM only and keep the wifi connection on the N900?12:53
lardmantho I also scoff at children having to hold their mothers' hands when crossing the road, how will they ever learn! ;)12:53
lardmanDantonic: take out the sim?12:53
Dantonicother than that12:53
sejosomeone got witter working?12:53
Dantonicidk a command to turn it off maybe?12:54
kynkyxda-developer community for htc phones hich are so called mainstream devices, was a very hackish community12:54
lardmanDantonic: there probably is one, I don't know it though12:54
* sejo needs to setup a 32bit vbox so he can develop an client12:54
Ashenburgfantastic, it's down to 80% now, rebooting did the trick. Cheers :)12:54
kynkyDantonic, you can take sim card out of n900, but on n900 i have it so it only automatically connects to wifi networks12:54
johnxkynky, yup. but there was a "hacker" community and more regular forums I'd imagine. Since maemo is all in one place we do need to be a little conscious of new users12:55
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kynkyAshenburg, mine is on 80%, about 40mb free, which is what im told is about normal12:55
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Dantonickynky, I would like the option to turn the GSM radio off all together,  IT would be handy in the event that I want my phone offline, but still want to use the device to browse the internet at home for example12:56
kynkyjohnx not a problem wit that, just sometimes a bit frustrating to get info, just needs more searching skills :)12:56
DocScrutinizer51actually THATS freaky. No way to switch modem separately12:56
lardmanfor the Android/etc devices you have to distribute your app via their store, which would tend to mean your apps work12:58
DocScrutinizer51Dantonic, at least you can skip the pin dialog. this will dgive you gsm offline12:58
johnxkynky, it's just important to add a little disclaimer before suggesting that someone get root and go around running rm -rf /foo or enabling extras-devel, and redpill mode and replacing system libs12:58
sejojohnx: do you have a skype login button? I only see a save12:58
kynkyyou can easily switch between connections12:58
Gadgetoid_iMaclardman nobody in IRC can really be THAT big a noob anyway, this isn't Palringo12:58
johnxsejo, I don't use skype12:58
lardmanwe're not talking about irc though, we're talking about TMO probably12:59
lardmanor perhaps we are talking about irc12:59
lardmanin any case people need to know what they're getting into12:59
johnxGadgetoid_iMac, it's not like it takes more than 20 characters to add a little warning12:59
DantonicDocScrutinizer51, the pin dialog?12:59
lardmane.g. If I'd come from an Android bg, I might have no clue about being able to break things with my install, etc12:59
Gadgetoid_iMacWhat, johnx, and wear the letters off my keyboard!?12:59
lardmanbut I could well still use irc12:59
johnxGadgetoid_iMac, letters on keyboards are for n00bs :D13:00
johnxlike training wheels on a motorcycle13:00
DocScrutinizer51Dantonic, some sim needs a pin13:00
Gadgetoid_iMacjohnx touche, but the no letters keyboard doesn't have an apple key13:00
* Gadgetoid_iMac let's that sink in for a minute13:00
johnxGadgetoid_iMac, pssh. Everyone knows Microsoft makes the best keyboards anyways13:00
Gadgetoid_iMacMicrosoft make bent keyboards... I'll grant them that13:01
Myrttimicrosoft can do one thing right: hardware13:01
DantonicDocScrutinizer51, oh I see what you mean... but I'm sure there's a way to disable the radio, just by killing some process or somethign?13:01
DantonicI guess I'll wait for someone to come up with it :P13:02
* johnx looks at his MS "basic" keyboard. Yeah. I've lost most of the color on the left-ctrl as well as lots around WASD and XC13:02
Gadgetoid_iMacNot always Myrtti, but the Notebook Mouse 5000 and their new mobile bluetooth keyboard (with separate wireless numpad) are very good13:02
Dantonicany of you guys using IRC on the N900? and if so what are you using?13:02
Gadgetoid_iMacCase in point: the xbox360, I own two, but they're horrible squashed marshmallows with ungainly huge external power supplies that make too much noise13:03
johnxDantonic, xchat13:03
Dantonichmm johnx I installed xchat but couldn't get it to connect13:03
DocScrutinizer51sure there is. send AT+FUN=0 to the modem13:03
Dantonicwouldn't connect to server13:03
ManuelSEhow CAN we monitor network traffic in statusbar?13:03
DantonicI've never used irssi13:03
DocScrutinizer51Dantonic, ^13:04
sejoLOL I just had tu put myself online in the availability section :p13:04
ManuelSEi mean too see if i am downloading13:04
DocScrutinizer51Dantonic, xchat13:04
SpeedEvilI want status light bars.13:04
DantonicDocScrutinizer51, AT+FUN=0 how do I send that to the modem?13:04
johnxanyways. time for me to sleep. 'night all13:04
SpeedEvilStatus light to do that13:04
Gadgetoid_iMacSheeesh, I can't believe my 2 year old is demanding a "jacket potato with cheese"13:04
DantonicDocScrutinizer51, is that to kill the gsm radio?13:04
SpeedEvilKids need a highish fat diet13:05
DocScrutinizer51Dantonic, if only I knew ;-P13:05
Dantonicdon't mess with me I'll believe anything you say!13:05
Gadgetoid_iMacI'm not sure we've got any baking potatoes... i wonder if I could make mini bakies with new potatoes13:05
MyrttiI'll teach mine to eat black pudding á la Tampere13:05
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Myrttiif I ever get kids13:05
DocScrutinizer51Dantonic, yes somewhat. though there are beteter cmds13:05
Gadgetoidaha big potatoes!13:05
ManuelSEarent all potatos bakable?13:06
lardmansome bake better than others13:06
* SpeedEvil passes Myrtti a net.13:06
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MyrttiSpeedEvil: ?13:06
SpeedEvilI've never seen a bad baked potato.13:06
DocScrutinizer51Dantonic, it,s nbeen suggested modem is at /dev/ttySx13:06
SpeedEvilSome are better than others.13:06
SpeedEvilMyrtti: To catch them with!13:06
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lardmanhmm, libgmp is broken in extras-devel, don't try installing it13:07
SpeedEvilhow broken?13:07
DocScrutinizer51also there are reports of ppl actually sending Atcmds to the modem13:07
lardmaninstalls to wrong place13:07
lardmanso pretty terminal13:08
lardmandh_install -plibgmp3-dev -Xgmp-mparam.h build/gmp*.h $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/include13:09
lardmanI think it was that line13:09
lardmandoes the bit at the end tell it where to install inside the package?13:09
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lardmanin which case that is wrong13:09
DocScrutinizer51Dantonic, see trac ticket about USSD / numbers starting with *13:09
sejosomeone using witter here?13:10
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lardmanwill try this instead dh_install --sourcedir=$(CURDIR)/build -plibgmp3-dev -Xgmp-mparam.h usr/include/gmp*.h13:10
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lardmanmy word QEmu is a cpu hog13:12
homeasvs_anyone have an idea how I can work around/fix qemu missing syscall 242 for arm ?13:12
homeasvs_it makes my armel build for erlang hang13:13
lardmanupgrade qemu?13:13
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lardmanhomeasvs_: which sdk are you on?13:14
lardmanor you can use cpu transparency of course13:14
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homeasvs_lardman, fremantle 5.013:14
homeasvs_lardman, for that I need an arm device, right ?13:14
homeasvs_lardman, can I then use that to build debs ?13:14
lardmanbeagleboard or n900 would do I guess13:15
lardmanare there no patches to the erlang stuff to avoid using that call?13:15
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glezoszerojay, hey! Are you guys having fun there?13:16
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lardmanactually, and I don;t know what causes that syscall to be used, but you might be able to change the build params to build for e.g. a less specific cpu and get rid13:16
lardmanyou'll need to work out where it's coming from though13:16
xorAxAxso, the n900 gps is not usable without net connection?13:18
GAN900More photos on flickr.13:18
xorAxAxor is it just slower to get a fix? if so, how many minutes?13:18
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tigertwas Jaffa hacking horizon?13:18
homeasvs_lardman, that is my other angle, going to look up what it is first and see where it comes from13:18
konttorijust slower13:18
konttoriyeah, jaffa was working on that13:18
GAN900xorAxAx, I haven't managed to get one all weekend.13:18
* tigert has a half day to hack on graphics13:18
lardmanhomeasvs_: ok cool, let us know13:18
homeasvs_lardman, it's triggered while running erlc13:18
xorAxAxGAN900: OMG13:19
GAN900xorAxAx, yeah. :/13:19
lardmanhey GAN90013:19
xorAxAxis it likely that they fix it in a software update?13:19
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homeasvs_lardman, I believe erlang is a bytecode language, so possibly I could create a devkit instead, avoiding arm altogether13:19
GAN900Hey, lardman.13:20
StskeepsxorAxAx: go vote for the bug13:20
lardmanyou may find that by targeting something other than the default arm11, it will go away13:20
lardmanGAN900: how's Spain?13:20
GAN900lardman, awesome!13:20
lardmancool :)13:20
xorAxAxStskeeps: url?13:20
homeasvs_lardman, I don't know much about arm, so I don't know how to switch target yet, but I'll look it up13:20
GAN900We were out 'til 4 AM last night.13:20
lardmanprobably feels just like home, same language and all ;)13:20
lardmanoh bloody hell13:21
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GAN900Bunch of drunk Maemo folks on the metro.13:21
GAN900"It's about the people."13:21
StskeepsxorAxAx: - i personally think they should 1) allow N810 style AGPS (plot in on a map where you are) or 2) actually caching SUPL data13:21
povbot`Bug 5337: Can't get GPS lock without network connection13:21
tigertGAN900: well, it is =)13:22
tigertGAN900: who would put up with this shit without the people? :D13:22
tigertsure the gadgets help a bit :)13:22
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Gadgetoid_iMacI installed Starcraft on my N810, was getting tired of Diablo13:23
sejowhat is the resolution for the n900?13:23
StskeepsGadgetoid_iMac: i wouldn't mind starcraft on my n810.13:23
Gadgetoid_iMacMilestone is 853*something isn't it13:23
Gadgetoid_iMacStskeeps wouldn't that be lovely :D13:23
ashenburgerseriously? diablo runs on the 810? is the project still alive? (i.e any chance of it seeing a fremantle release)?13:24
Stskeepsashenburger: diablo is maemo 4.1.213:24
* Gadgetoid_iMac listens for the sound of his terrible joke wooshing over ashenburger's head13:24
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GAN900tigert, no, I agree 100% it's just mildly funny applying that to a bunch of drunk people on themtraon. *g*13:26
Gadgetoid_iMacImplementing a page class in php with an isPostBack function is, perhaps, a little bit sad...13:26
ashenburgeroops, guess I got a bit carried away there :p13:26
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ashenburgerI did see a Baldur's Gate on an 810 though :)13:26
Gadgetoid_iMacWe'd all love Diablo and Starcraft on our portables, Ashenburger... they're one of the holy grail13:26
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Gadgetoid_iMacI did an article covering all the lovely games I could get to run on my Samsung NC10, but it's just not pocketable13:27
tigertGAN900: yeah, I know13:27
tigertI knew you agreed too13:27
tigertGAN900: I can imagine the scene very well =)13:28
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tigertgiven the good meal and company at the restaurant earlier :)13:28
GAN900Er, s/themtraon/the metro/13:28
sejois there a way to change the wallpaper?13:28
sejoand how would that be?13:29
homeasvs_lardmin, ok, it configures by default for target arm-linux-gnueabi13:29
homeasvs_lardman, how can I see a list of alternative targets, and which one would you recommend instead ?13:29
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SpeedEvilclick on hte empty desktop. Click the 'gear' - click the menu area to get 'change wallpaper'13:30
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Gadgetoid_iMacDamn you Disney Channel, damn you, now I want to slip Demi Lovato the sausage too13:30
tigertBBC is so smart13:30
tigert"this podcast is available only in the UK"13:31
SpeedEvilWhy damn you?13:31
tigertso isnt the point of podcasting partly that you can get it when you are travelling13:31
SpeedEviltigert: you should get with the times!13:31
Gadgetoid_iMacSpeedEvil, there's only so many 17 year old Disney stars I can have pillows of before my wife gets suspicious13:32
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SpeedEvilVPN out of the UK so the government can't log you, VPN in so you can get UK content when abroad.13:32
tigertSpeedEvil: yeah :D13:32
Gadgetoid_iMacI mean, she raised an eyebrow when I added Zac Efron13:32
sejothx SpeedEvil13:33
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil, found the pickle file?13:38
TermanaGadgetoid_iMac: If I was your wife and you put in a Zac Efron pillow - I'd be raising eyebrows as well13:38
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Gadgetoid_iMacTermana, I was kidding... it was a Depp pillow13:39
TermanaJust as bad13:39
Gadgetoid_iMacActually, I wonder if there are Depp pillows... I'm secure enough about my sexuality to want one of those13:39
Gadgetoid_iMacThen I can stick my hand inside it, and use it as a Depp puppet13:40
TermanaBut is your wife secure enough of your sexuality?13:40
Gadgetoid_iMac"I didn't dutch oven you, it was Depp!"13:40
Gadgetoid_iMacThat's a good question...13:40
lardmanthis is what happens when people start using Apple products13:41
homeasvs_lardman, #define __NR_sched_getaffinity  242 <-- sounds like one I could live without if it is implemented as a noop13:41
Myrttitragedy of my life, my oven baking pan fits only one ready made pizza or pizza base13:41
lardmanhomeasvs_: no idea I'm afraid13:42
* timeless_mbp pokes people w/ n900s13:42
Gadgetoid_iMacThat may be true lardman13:42
lardmanyou looking at the qemu source here?13:42
timeless_mbplardman? :)13:42
lardmanhi timeless_mbp13:42
homeasvs_lardman, any idea about the hosts I could use instead of my arm-linux-gbeu one ?13:42
Gadgetoid_iMacHAI timeless_mbp!13:42
timeless_mbplardman: so.... got time to play? :)13:43
lardmanhomeasvs_: you might find a later version of qemu, or use the cpu transparency, but you'll need a device then13:43
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lardmantimeless_mbp: not really, how long will it take?13:43
lardmanam testing code atm13:43
Termanalardman - sounds viable (re: apple products and the discussion) - I'm using OS X at the moment as well13:43
timeless_mbplardman: you can install and use it recreationally13:43
Gadgetoid_iMacI'm "working"13:43
TermanaGadgetoid_iMac: Working on your communication abilities?13:44
lardmantimeless_mbp: go on then13:44
Gadgetoid_iMacTermana I hope not! I wouldn't be much cop as a "journalist" otherwise, I'm writing some lovely PHP13:44
homeasvs_cool, erlang's configure is testing for presence of those syscalls13:47
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homeasvs_so if I fake that out, tell it it's not there, I should be able to build13:47
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Vrathahello there13:48
Vrathajust got my n900 and have been playing around with it13:48
Vrathapretty spiffy device13:48
Vrathastill trying to figure out how to tether13:49
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: no - oddly13:50
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timeless_mbphow do i undo a thumbs down?13:53
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ruskieI'm trying to roll my own modest package but I'm getting: checking for MODEST_GSTUFF... configure: error: The pkg-config script could not be found or is too old.  Make sure it is in your PATH or set the PKG_CONFIG environment variable to the full path to pkg-config. - of course this inside of ...14:02
ruskie... scratchbox... I've already succesfully rolled my own zsh and tinymail so not really sure what's wrong...14:02
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timeless_mbpis pkg-config installed?14:02
ruskiewhich pkg-config14:02
ruskieunless it needs to be somewhere else as well14:03
DocScrutinizer-8SpeedEvil: noatime, noMtime??14:03
ruskieconfig.log isn't much help in this case... and it's only on MODEST_GSTUFF that it's failing :(14:03
Vrathasweet; got the n900 tethering via my mac14:03
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Gadgetoid_iMacBluetooth, Vratha?14:04
Vrathanah, usb14:04
Vrathadon't know how to do it via bt14:04
Gadgetoid_iMacOO, even better14:04
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: and not having time to fiddle with it14:04
timeless_mbpso, can someone talk me though the maemo boot sequence? :)14:04
SpeedEviltimeless: you pressw th14:04
SpeedEvilthe button, and it boots14:04
VrathaGadgetoid_iMac: heh, yeah, but i notice t-mobile isn't as fast as when i tried my iphone with a jailbreak14:04
ashenburgerhmm is there any disadvantages to connecting to an adhoc wifi network? power consumtion being the big issue14:04
Gadgetoid_iMacWell, you see some dots, then a handshake... and up comes Maemo... pretty simply really timeless_mbp14:04
lardmantimeless_mbp:  add it to the init.d scripts perhaps?14:04
Vrathaat&t i guess can claim the speed crown there14:04
timeless_mbplardman: maemo uses upstart afaiu14:05
Gadgetoid_iMacYou said it ashenburger, chews through power like there's no tomorrow14:05
lardmanoh well14:05
lardmansame sort of thing I guess though14:05
Gadgetoid_iMacEven a dedicated device like the Mifi can only offer internet via Wifi for about 4.5 hours14:05
timeless_mbpoh sure14:05
timeless_mbpbut i probably could figure out init.d :)14:05
ruskieGadgetoid_iMac, I'd say that's due to a poor battery ;)14:05
DocScrutinizer-8well there's still /etc/init.d/foo*14:06
Gadgetoid_iMacThey're 1530mAh batteries ruskie, so you could be right- I've got 3 of 'em though14:06
ruskieGadgetoid_iMac, :) I'd like a an 8kmAh battery for such a device ;)14:07
timeless_mbpis it evil to have a script that deletes itself from /etc/init.d/ ? :)14:07
* ruskie goes back to hammering away at trying to build modest...14:07
ashenburgeroh well on the upside it looks like the n900 is working, but my wifi router is not :/14:07
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DocScrutinizer-8timeless_mbp: can't see severy problems when done correctly14:08
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timeless_mbpoh brother14:09
timeless_mbpi bet i don't have access to /opt at this point14:09
Gadgetoid_iMacI did think, ruskie, that it would be better with a belt clip and a fahookin' massive battery.. there's no real need for it to be small. If you're carrying a freakin' router around to give yourself internet access then you've probably got a good sized bag14:10
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lardmantimeless_mbp: have spotted a bug in your strings14:10
lardmanyou have "Cell" for "Mobile", the former means nothing14:11
timeless_mbpsad that you're the first person to spot that14:11
lardmanYou've also changed "Work" to "Business", the latter is preferable imo14:11
timeless_mbpclearly engb isn't tested heavily14:11
SpeedEvilCellphone is a recognised term14:12
SpeedEvilCell too14:12
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: it's wrong for engb14:12
SpeedEvilbut it will get you looked at wierdly.14:12
timeless_mbpand i know better14:12
lardmanMobile is more normal14:12
timeless_mbplardman: #merl10n please14:12
Gadgetoid_iMac"Cell"phone is quite an obtusely technical term for such a ubiquitous gadget14:12
Gadgetoid_iMacIt's like calling a car, a Combustiontorotarymotionvehicle14:13
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timeless_mbpGadgetoid_iMac: enough14:13
timeless_mbpi screwed up. bad merge14:13
Gadgetoid_iMacI mean timeless_mbp, we should force americans to say "mobile phone" too!14:14
SpeedEvilGadgetoid_iMac: linear, unless you're doing it wrong.14:14
derfGadgetoid_iMac: Good luck with that.14:14
Gadgetoid_iMacWhat can I say SpeedEvil.. I can only drive in circles...14:14
Gadgetoid_iMacIt's easy derf, we just sneak it in via a new HTML tag14:14
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Gadgetoid_iMacHmm I need a little porting project I can fiddle with on Maemo, I'd probably be in over my head... getting things to work properly on Dingux was pain enough14:18
SpeedEvilGadgetoid: wine+qemu? :)14:19
Gadgetoid_iMacYeah... starcraft in slideshow mode, that's a worthy goal14:20
SpeedEvilMake the keyboard lights flash to indicate network traffic14:21
SpeedEvilOr the notification light14:21
_JP_port KeePassX, I could really use it  :)14:21
SpeedEvil'KITT' mode for the keyboard lights. (the 6 lights are independant)14:21
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SpeedEvilthere are 6 lights across the keyboard all independant.14:22
Gadgetoid_iMacSounds like a register prodding adventure, or something14:22
SpeedEviland with seperate brightnesses14:22
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SpeedEvilor something like that14:22
cehtehhehe i want a capacitative keyboard!14:22
homeasvs_is there an up-to-date guide for setting up cpu transparency ? can only find stuff for maemo 414:23
cehtehlight by proximity :P14:23
oops6_4Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n81014:23
homeasvs_trying to figure out how to use sbrsh-conf14:23
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cehtehwhat color is the keyboard light?14:23
Gadgetoid_iMacinteresting /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1 - kb614:23
Gadgetoid_iMacI'm so immature14:24
cehtehyou can control the vibrators bightness :)14:24
Gadgetoid_iMacdare I echo 1 >> brightness ?14:25
Gadgetoid_iMacI don't know what the fsck I'm doing14:25
SpeedEvil1 doesn't make it vibrate14:25
SpeedEvilthe threshold on the way up is about 20, and down is about 1414:26
SpeedEvil(rotation rather - vibration at this speed cannot be felt)14:26
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Corsacsounds like fun14:26
timeless_mbp!summon qwerty14:27
cehtehyou prolly want to tune that to be in resonance with the device mass14:27
SpeedEvilYou can optimise for accelleration through the accellerometers14:27
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Gadgetoid_iMacLord knows I've probably borked something up now14:29
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DocScrutinizer-8SpeedEvil: your profund knowledge about vibrator behaviour makes me wonder...14:37
Gadgetoid_iMacVibrator brightness, for sharing in the dark14:38
DocScrutinizer-8how can you tell without disassembling the device?14:38
oops6_4Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 ?14:38
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: you can hear the pwm driving signal modulated by the motor rotation14:39
DocScrutinizer-8SpeedEvil: spoken like a real EE ;-D14:40
_JP_I was told that SSHFS is in extras-testing, but I cant find it. Or is it in devel?14:41
Gadgetoid_iMacShh, FS!14:42
DocScrutinizer-8SpeedEvil: is there any summary of the /sys and maybe /dev nodes?14:42
Gadgetoid_iMacNeither can I, _JP_, it must have an obscure name14:43
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: no - I was planning on populating the hardware links I made on the n900 page with them14:46
SpeedEvilOr not AFAIK14:46
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil, well the kbd-leds were a nice kickoff14:48
SpeedEvilI'm impressed with the battery life - Coming up on 21h active with wifi on, doing a while (sleep 20) in bash14:48
SpeedEviland logging battery level14:48
SpeedEvilWith maybe an hours use in that time too14:48
DocScrutinizer51hmm, I had 23h with 50% lightwight use incl backlight and 100% wifi and IRC14:50
_JP_Gadgetoid_iMac: Found it in extras-devel, seems I was misinformed it being in testing...14:50
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil, to me it seemed like reported bat charge in mAh was quite jumpy. Like to share your bat log?14:57
* timeless_mbp grumbles14:58
timeless_mbpanyone here willing to admit some degree of familiarity with hildon/gtk?14:58
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: very15:00
SpeedEvilformat should be obvcious15:02
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil, hal reports 8 "unit: bars". Thismcorresponds with batget (watching it charge). But I couldn't make a story out of max_charge / 8 or similar equations15:03
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer51: go check out toggles_w's open hald-addon-bme15:04
DocScrutinizer51Stskeeps, where to find?15:04
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Stskeepsnot sure if protocol changed in rx-51 though15:05
GAN900X-Fade, ping?15:05
GAN900Stskeeps, you wouldn't happen to know where mediawiki resides?15:06
Stskeepsthe sw?15:06
GAN900dneary wants access.15:06
Stskeepsah - no idea15:06
Stskeepsi don't have access to servers15:06
GAN900We need to play with the default stylesheets.15:07
GAN900Bleh, how useless can you get. :P15:07
Stskeepssitting in my couch and working - very!15:07
Stskeepson, that is15:07
GAN900Unless it's a very fluffy couch.15:07
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Ceron^when will i abe able to video chat15:10
Ceron^trough skype15:10
Ceron^with n900?15:10
Ceron^i would want that feature :D15:11
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: shiiiit that's weird!15:12
DocScrutinizergot the log in kwrite and speeding thru a mostly static screen with ^f / F3 /shift-F315:13
DocScrutinizerfeels like timemachine15:14
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Gadgetoidhmm if only the wiimote analogue worked with quake15:18
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SpeedEvilWell - it's bluetooth - you have hte source15:21
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: Am I right this hald-addon-bme is basically the code that creates what we see in lshal for battery status?15:21
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: right, we made a open implementation that pokes BME (please don't investigate anything else than the information gathering stuff we put up)15:22
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DocScrutinizeraah thanks15:23
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oops6_42Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 ?15:23
Stskeepsoops6_42: did you make a .deb package?15:23
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* sivang likes to get .debs for Xmas!15:24
oops6_42Stskeeps: no how to so that at is that necessary?15:24
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sivangguys, what the way to install a bash on the Maemo SDK ?15:24
sivangscratchbox, for that matter15:24
Stskeepssivang: sdk should already have bash15:24
Stskeepsoops6_42: well, either that or you can copy the binary manually and install needed libs on device15:24
sivangStskeeps: where do I access it from? I didn't see it on the apps list15:24
Stskeepssivang: dpkg -l15:25
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Stskeepssivang: i'm quite sure scratchbox has bash15:25
sivangStskeeps: right, but I want to run it from the Xephyr session15:25
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: this is information recovery ministery here. No plans to go beyond what you deliver in hald-addon-bme ;-P15:25
ManuelSEmmpc - music player client daemon is the greatest app on maemo15:25
ManuelSEnow i control the heavenly sounds through the whole house15:25
ManuelSEneeds to support multichannel volume tho15:26
sivangStskeeps: from within the session, e.g. be able to run apps from bash and see the result whilst developing using Qt15:26
Stskeepssivang: osso-xterm? :P15:26
ManuelSEnp don kosaken chor15:26
sivangStskeeps: /me checks15:26
StskeepsX-Terminal, that is15:26
oops6_42Stskeeps: and to install need lib on the device I need internet on my device that what I don't have currently so I think debpackage is good idea but can you redirect me to the link where I can get the steps15:26
Stskeepsoops6_42: copy the binary to your device over mass storage and chmod +x it when copied into /home/user..?15:27
oops6_42Stskeeps: ok I will try15:28
jebbahmm. woke up to a hung fone. Left a web page with open. Probably flash leaking all night or something. My alarm did go off though, at least.15:28
sivangStskeeps: I have to setup the SDK on this machine. I set it up on my netbook first which worked great except for some sluggines15:28
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sivangStskeeps: I will let you in a  acouple of minutes if I can find it on the apps list15:28
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sivangwhat is the VDSO paramter?15:29
sivangwhy need it be set for scratchbox ?15:29
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: you know GTA02 battery? Is BL-5J similar CC-chip design, or is it a "stupid" bat like BL-5C and the calculations are done in N900 hardware?15:29
SpeedEvilI have a 1G SD card in. 'backup' says the filesystem is read-only. It's a mounted vfat fs, mounted rw. Thoughts?15:30
sivangah! vsyscall page15:30
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i don't know. battery handling is done in software15:30
oops6_42Stskeeps: Thanks man working15:30
MacerSpeedEvil: yeah. spend $2 and get a 4G sd :)15:31
jebbaunderneath the battery (which i just had to yank....), there are three sets of pins on other motherboard that are visible. They look like they might be serial or usb or jtag or .... anyone know?15:31
SpeedEvilMacer: It needs 4?15:31
DocScrutinizeryep, I know. But e.g. where is the NTC to probe battemp. Where's the capacity calculated?15:31
SpeedEviljebba: For $10, you may be able to find out15:31
jebbahow's that?15:31
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SpeedEviljebba: there is a site with the level 4 manual available15:31
sivanghey jebba15:31
SpeedEvilwhich can contain schematics15:32
sivangjebba: what's up?15:32
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: aah, sorry to nag. You told you don't know15:32
SpeedEvilbut it's not free15:32
jebbahey sivang15:32
Maceri'm updating macports15:32
SpeedEvilMacer: also - 4G for $2 - where?15:32
sivangjebba: you a nokian ? :)15:32
MacerSpeedEvil: i was teasing15:32
jebbasivang: i have an n900 but dont work there if that's what you're asking15:32
Maceralthough i managed to buy a 4G from tigerdirect with adapters for like $1015:32
sivangjebba: yes, I was wondering :)15:32
SpeedEvilAh. /me is having extreme cashflow problems ATM.15:33
Arkenoiis there a note taking application that allows inserting sketches (and maybe even camera shots)? the point is taking notes quickly..15:33
sivangSpeedEvil: join the club :)15:33
sivangArkenoi: we should take Tomboy and make it a such15:33
sivangArkenoi: howeer, not sure of mono could be ported to ARM15:33
sivangarmel, for that matter15:33
sivangArkenoi: I've had this thoughts for mono for long now15:34
sejohmm anyone having bad voice calls with sip?15:34
jebbasivang: there is conboy, which is tomboy in c15:34
sivanghmm, the installer should have better progress represetation for the download process of the scratchbox debs15:34
jebbasejo: i tried to set up my account with it, but couldn't get it going. I could make a SIP call *into* the fone when it was runnign asterisk  :)15:35
* Arkenoi uses sip as primary callout method when wifi is available, works even better than GSM ;-)15:35
sivangjebba: ah, so mind some dirty work, prolem solved :)15:35
sejojebba I got it working but bad ;uality15:35
sejosame with skype15:35
sivangjebba: do you think we could make it link against PyObjects so we could use python scripting to add the multimedia functionality ?15:35
sejoArkenoi: thx hope it's on the client end then15:36
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sejojebba: I just added sip account with and works great15:36
jebbasivang: not sure, i've never even run conboy15:36
Maceranybody here ever use osx as an actual server?15:36
tigertsejo: its funny, I have several friends wiht ekiga accounts..15:37
jebbasejo:  I tried just calling (echo test iirc). That work for you?15:37
sivangjebba: not to mention on the N900 right? :)15:37
tigertthey never seem to have a working setup on desktop linux :)15:37
jebbaya ;)15:37
tigert"oops, sorry cannot talk, sound is broken" :D15:37
jebbai have it working ok on desktop15:37
tigertluckily it works fine on N90015:37
tigertlinux desktop sound stuff seems to have issues still15:37
DocScrutinizerI'm using sip:// since a week now. Works great for inbound as well15:38
sivangtigert: you on a tablet ?15:38
sejojebba doesn't connect15:38
sivangerr, netbook ?15:38
tigertsivang: N900 and laptop now15:38
sven-tekYES, java runs on my N800. I can finally use my fav app pauker on my tablet PC. YES YES YES15:38
tigertbut going for lunch now15:38
jebbaDocScrutinizer hmm. why dont htey just make that info public? hmm15:38
sivangtigert: ah15:38
jebbasejo: ok, then maybe sip was working but ekiga is having probs with their server. Know a test url for digium offhand? I used to run a asterisk server for a couple years, but no more.15:39
Stskeepssven-tek: what did you install?15:39
sivangtigert: The netbooks are very poor. Compaq Mini with nVidia ION are much better, if to say the least.15:39
sejojebba dunno /10015:39
Arkenoijebba: "unable to estabilish connection".15:39
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DocScrutinizerjebba: policy15:39
Stskeepssven-tek: oh cool15:39
Stskeepssven-tek: under maemo or easy debian?15:40
sivangtigert: but the n900 is cool15:40
Arkenoimy registar is ( domain)15:40
sejowhat stun does it use?15:41
sven-tekIt runs under maemo. It has still some ugly fonts, but its usable. I use pauker a lot for learning, its greatest app ever for learning a language or anything you want to remember15:41
Stskeepssven-tek: could you document your steps?15:41
Stskeepsothers might find it interesting15:41
sven-teknothing special done. just apt-getted the jre and then start pauker with "java -jar pauker-1.8.jar"15:42
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Stskeepsapt-getted from where? :P15:42
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sven-tekcan i see the repository it was installed from with any debian tool?15:43
Stskeepsapt-cache show15:44
sven-tekFilename: pool/maemo4.0/misc/openjdk-6-cacao-jre_6b14-r0_armel.deb15:44
sven-teki think its from the
Stskeepsah, jalimo15:45
sven-tekmonths ago i gave up running pauker... great15:46
loft306Where yo look for the devices phone number?15:46
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jebbahere's a ton of test numbers:
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jebbasejo: how do you have your ekiga account set up on the n900? I can connect to some places, but never get audio (I can with ekiga on my laptop, but not on the fone)15:55
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sejojebba can't test now16:00
sejoskype works again :p16:00
sejopretty good even16:01
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sven-tekIs easy debian a good alternative to maemo on N800?16:05
sven-tekIs there an image to install it somewhere?16:05
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valdynsven-tek: i dont think its an alternative at all16:05
sven-tekokay, i dont want to hack but use it16:06
valdynsven-tek: its just a way to use software from the debian armel repository16:06
sven-tekah okay16:06
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sivangvaldyn: so it probably lacks the nokia prop stuff and the kernel patches to make it work with PM and related?16:08
sivangvaldyn: re: easy debian16:08
valdynsivang: its not a seperate system16:08
naxxatoe does anyone know if ruby and libruby works on the maemo 5 build for n900?16:08
valdynsivang: debian chroot environment to install and run debian applications from16:09
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sivangvaldyn: ah, nice so no changes to the setup.16:10
valdynsivang: yea, no changes to maemo16:10
sivangvaldyn: does it have to be a chroot ?16:11
valdynsivang: yes16:11
sivangvaldyn: for example, if I want to experment with stuff right on the fs16:11
iDialektAnyone familiar with the 4g LTE stuff?16:11
sivangvaldyn: I mean, adding the sources to the general sources.list16:11
valdynsivang: hmm? do you understand what chroot means?16:11
infobotsivang meant: valdyn: I mean, adding the sources to the host-system sources.list16:11
valdynsivang: easydebian has its own sources.list16:11
sivangvaldyn: right, I don't want the apps to beconfied to the chroot fs16:12
Arkenoilte sucks16:12
sivangvaldyn: I want them to be able to access the /dev/ stuff16:12
sivangvaldyn: sure I can setup loopback for that on the fs's16:12
Arkenoibecause lte is to be owned by todays cellular networks ;-)16:12
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valdynsivang: mount --bind /dev /path/to/chroot/dev16:12
* Arkenoi prefers wimax16:12
aquatixhm, can i launch the appmanager from terminal? maybe i can see why it crashes16:12
sivangvaldyn: right, okay16:13
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sivangaquatix: find the desktop launcher file, see what binary it runs and run it16:13
valdynsivang: but easydebian might already do that for you, i have no idea16:13
sivangvaldyn: k, I should check16:13
aquatixsivang: good point16:13
sivangvaldyn thanks dude16:13
sivangaquatix: you might be able to strace the app as well, to see if a system call is the problem16:14
sivangaquatix: but you have to have it installed first16:14
aquatixchicken-egg problem :)16:14
aquatixstill have apt of couse16:14
sivangaquatix: :-D16:14
jebbagot SIP going. Had to check "Open Routing" (?) or something (translation from spanish)16:15
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Pega88hi, i'm working on maemo 5 - nokia N900 development for my school end project, is there maybe some website with a general overview/review of all the does and don't for developing for the N900?16:16
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jebba900pega88 lots on the wiki16:19
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homeasvs_anyone here have a working .sbrsh for fremantle ?16:34
homeasvs_racking my brain trying to figure out what's wrong with mine, and all the guides have typos and errors16:34
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sejoweird skype works perfect untill I receive an email, then it really starts to stutter16:38
sejojebba: my sip is sejo@ekiga.net16:39
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jebbaman, google talk works really well. Just did a cross-hemisphere call and it sounds better than a cell phone call.17:02
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sivangjebba: yes it rocks17:06
sivangjebba: better then skpe17:06
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timeless_mbpmy election thing from dneary was marked as spam17:19
Stskeepsit does look like spam17:20
pekujaD. Nedry17:20
sejoooch didn't know galk was that good17:21
* sejo sets up17:21
sejoI noticed that this night my battery wal almost empty17:24
andre__hmm, does the on-screen virtual keyboard depend on any language settings or is it the same for all of them (except for Russian)?17:25
sejoputting it in offline mode does that help?17:25
jebbagah, i take an image, rotate and crop it in the fone, then select it for a background and it always "un"-rotates it, probably because it reads the EXIF info17:26
aquatixyay, wifi17:28
timeless_mbpandre__: eh?17:28
timeless_mbpthe onscreen keyboard changes based on some setting in control panel17:28
timeless_mbpthe french or spanish keymap should be slightly different from enus17:28
homeasvs_anyone here have cpu transparency working ?17:29
timeless_mbpandre__: wait, which onscreen keyboard? :)17:29
cehtehgermany prolly too ... and anyone seen a swiss-german keymap?17:29
divinegodffdec_h264 is terribly slow. but i have a file that openmax (omx_h264dec) refuses to load.. anyone know what to do?17:29
timeless_mbpcehteh: none in sales17:29
cehtehworst of all .. so close to german but still so strange :)17:29
cehteh4 offical languages all with accents :)17:30
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andre__timeless, virtual one. not character17:31
andre__the third screen, with all the symbols17:31
timeless_mbpandre__: ok17:31
timeless_mbpit's definitely different17:31
timeless_mbpall of them17:31
timeless_mbpthe fn-ctrl one is very different for polish :)17:31
aquatixok, thinkering with themes doesn't work17:31
Stskeepsheya MoonTiger17:31
aquatixi think i crashed mer :)17:31
timeless_mbpand the full screen finger keyboard tweaks language to landuage17:31
andre__cehteh, what's wrong with the german one?17:31
infobottimeless_mbp meant: and the full screen finger keyboard tweaks language to language17:31
MoonTigerhey Stskeeps17:31
timeless_mbpStskeeps: i hate the repos17:31
timeless_mbpare you the repo master now?17:31
cehtehandre__: nothing .. i just wonder if swizerland gets an extra oen17:32
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: heck no17:32
odin_afnoon all17:32
andre__for what?17:32
timeless_mbpStskeeps: help me anyway?17:32
andre__I mean the keyboards are based on languages, not really countries...17:32
timeless_mbpthe stupid gettext package is linked against a library it doesn't provide17:32
timeless_mbpandre__: um17:32
cehtehare french accents easily available on a german keyboard?17:32
timeless_mbpkeyboards are based on regional variants of langauges17:33
infobottimeless_mbp meant: keyboards are based on regional variants of languages17:33
* timeless_mbp sighs17:33
* timeless_mbp needs breakfast, lunch, and maybe dinner17:33
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: gettext package in fremantle is broken17:33
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: is there a bug?17:33
andre__cehteh, via onscreen special characters keyboard: yes. press bluekey+control17:33
timeless_mbpthat's kinda incredibly lame17:33
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: you don't have doctools in your SB target do you?17:34
andre__cehteh, not on the hardware keys themselves as they are limited and already used by äöü17:34
cehtehandre__: dunno if that pleases french-swiss people17:34
timeless_mbpStskeeps: um, why do you ask?17:34
andre__cehteh, french-swiss people should not use a german keyboard layout, but a french one. as easy as that.17:34
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: because normally SB hides this bug from you17:34
timeless_mbpcehteh: you can switch the hardware layout in software17:34
cehtehand dont forget about italian-swiss and raetero-romanic (ok they need äöü)17:34
timeless_mbpStskeeps: well, err17:34
timeless_mbpbecause my problem is that the .deb i got from the repository is broken17:34
andre__cehteh, they should use the italian layout. what's the issue?17:34
timeless_mbpwhich means that my app doesn't work right17:35
cehtehandre__: you didnt seen a offical swiss keyboard layout dont you?17:35
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: there's a devkit for doctools (with gettext etc) for sb1. and that overrides the normal gettext package. normal gettext package is horridly broken lbt discovered the other day17:35
timeless_mbpcehteh: the keyboard has a way to compose keys17:35
cehtehand french layouts are very different17:35
timeless_mbpStskeeps: i hit the broken gettext package every month or so17:35
cehtehwell i am not in swizerland i dont care17:35
andre__cehteh, there is no official swiss keyboard according to the latest documents I have here, but feel free to explain as Nokia changes everything at least twice per week :)17:36
cehtehhaha i dont care17:36
cehtehcompass and working GPS would be more important to me :P17:36
timeless_mbpcehteh: there's a third party package called ukeyboard17:37
timeless_mbpwhich lets you work w/ others to deal w/ this17:37
luke-jrcehteh: from what I've been hearing in here, GPS doesn't work17:37
andre__cehteh, Uhm. Going to Settings > Text Input > Hardware keyboard layout there is "Suisse, Schweiz". Damn. Never seen that before.17:37
cehtehhehe now you know what i mean? :)17:38
andre__Bad idea. People should use Italian/German/French layout instead I think17:38
JaffaMorning, all17:38
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ask lbt about the back when he's back from bcn17:38
Jaffatigert: The "Horizon" I was hacking was what's now "Attitude"17:38
andre__cehteh, not yet as I have not tried it. But feel free to elaborate your issues :)17:38
JaffaNot the old OS2005/6 Horizon17:38
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cehtehandre__: you are german?17:38
andre__cehteh, yes, according to my passport :)17:39
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: bug, that is17:39
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cehtehwell not on the n900 but on a normal keyboard look where some characters are on a swiss layout17:39
cehteh* $ § ...17:39
cehtehno ß .. ok17:40
cehtehforgotten where the {[]} are ..17:40
pekujanobody needs §17:40
pekujait's useless17:40
pekujaI hate that they waste a whole key for that on European keyboards17:40
SpeedEvilcehteh: compass is a hardware mod.17:40
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cehtehif you ever want to make fun of someone switch his keyboard to swiss german17:40
Stskeepsor euro17:40
SpeedEvilcehteh: I think a fairly simple one, if you could open the case, but...17:40
Stskeepsnormal people just use 200e or 200eur, right? :P17:41
pekujaI'm sure in some European layouts there's something more useful there because they just need more keys in general17:41
pekujawell, euro isn't too bad, because it's behind altgr anyhow17:41
cehtehSpeedEvil: and then solder it in? :)17:41
andre__pekuja, as a lawyer i love § :-P17:41
pekujadoesn't really bother me that much17:41
pekujait's just there if I really need it17:41
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pekujaandre__: I'm sure you do :-P17:41
pekujaandre__: nobody else does ;-)17:41
SpeedEvilcehteh: basically17:41
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SpeedEvilcehteh: in parallel with the accelerometer17:41
cehtehyeah and where is the software support for it?17:42
pekujaanyways, I would like to have a US layout for programming, but I'm not sure what the optimal solution would be to fit the scandinavian letters in there17:42
SpeedEvilIt's on the I2C bus - write a driver17:42
timeless_mbppekuja: optimal solution is to dunk scandinavia into the ocean17:42
timeless_mbp(and take .fi with it)17:42
pekujawell, my laptop has a couple of extra keys because it's a Japanese layout, so I could probably make it work17:42
pekujatimeless_mbp: :-(17:42
pekujatimeless_mbp: not that I have much fondness for my umlauts17:43
timeless_mbppekuja: hey, don't frown, i'd lose my apt in the process17:43
Gadgetoidported android yet?17:43
zashYeah, how's the android-runtime-porting going?17:45
zashCanonical doing that right?17:45
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SpeedEvilOops. I meant - but anyway.17:45
Stskeepszash: someone was doing it but he threw a religious fit over not having google maps and such "android is not as open as you think" and never published the code..17:46
Gadgetoidhaha I'm just making dirty jokes... android is a sin17:46
Stskeepszash: -send him an e-mail and poke him to publish17:47
Gadgetoidoo extras-testing failed for a change17:47
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* sejo likes bounce17:48
suihkulokkibounce needs a level editor =)17:49
zashStskeeps: lol17:49
pekujazash: android runtime? would that mean running Android apps on Maemo with just a VM or something?17:49
pekujazash: that'd be pretty sweet17:49
Stskeepspekuja: see the page i referred to.17:49
sejosuihkulokki: mhat's the poy ?17:49
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zashpekuja: it's java-ish17:49
zashpekuja: runtime as in the java vm17:49
zashpekuja: except it's not java, but dalvik17:49
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pekujazash: yeah, I know. if it is portable to Maemo, that's pretty exciting I think17:50
pekujaStskeeps: thanks17:50
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SpeedEvilI would even pay as much as 3 dollars for more levels on bounce.17:51
Stskeepsi wonder if they'll be on ovi store17:52
kynky3 levels on bounce? thought the first icon was just for video17:53
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jebbawhy doesn't this work?  It's preventing me from removing fotos:   `chmod u+w 2006-05-26/`   (in MyDocs/.images subdir)17:53
Stskeepsjebba: it's FAT17:53
SpeedEvilkynky: well - yes17:53
jebbaStskeeps: but other dirs in there are +w17:54
Stskeepsjebba: that's kinda weird17:54
Stskeepsjebba: submit a bug?17:54
jebbaandre__: ?  ^^17:54
SpeedEvilIt's FAT as it has to be to allow it to work in mass storage mode with most PCs17:54
kynkyhope not to long for koffice on n90017:54
jebbaSpeedEvil: but then why are other dirs +w ok?17:54
SpeedEvilVFAT does not support most attributes17:55
jebbai have a subdir with one dir +w and the others are -w17:55
jebba~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ ls -l17:55
jebbadrwxrwxrwx    2 user     root        65536 Dec  6 12:38 200517:55
jebbadr-xr-xr-x    2 user     root        65536 Mar 23  2007 2006-05-2617:55
jebbadr-xr-xr-x    2 user     root        65536 Mar 23  2007 2006-07-2617:55
andre__jebba, hmm?17:55
timeless_mbpjebba: df -h ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver17:55
jebba~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ chmod +w 2006-07-2617:55
jebba~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ ls -l | grep 07-2617:55
jebbadr-xr-xr-x    2 user     root        65536 Mar 23  2007 2006-07-2617:55
jebba $ df -h ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver17:56
jebbaFilesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on17:56
jebba/dev/mmcblk0p1           27.0G      7.1G     19.9G  26% /home/user/MyDocs17:56
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timeless_mbpmount |grep MyDocs17:56
jebbaandre__: I scp'd over a few directories.  On my system the dirs are u-w so i didn't accidentally blow them out.  I scp -pr them, so now when they are on the system, they don't have write perms. But I should be able to change that.17:57
* timeless_mbp chuckles17:57
jebba$ mount |grep MyDocs17:57
jebba/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir)17:57
jebba $ ls -la17:58
jebbadrwxrwxrwx    5 user     root        65536 Dec  6 12:50 .17:58
andre__aha. okay.17:58
timeless_mbpchmod 0777 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver17:58
sejoI have an icon in the status bar of the n900 that looks like a file with a red stripe through17:58
sejowhat does that mean?17:58
jebbaheh.  chmod 0777 works, but +w doesnt ...17:58
jebbaon the subdirs too.17:58
timeless_mbpsejo: no working sim card17:58
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timeless_mbpjebba: sounds like a busybox bug17:59
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jebbaanyway, in the foto manager it made it complain that it couldn't remove the images via tap tap tap17:59
timeless_mbpchmod 0555 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver17:59
timeless_mbpchmod +w ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver17:59
timeless_mbpdoes that fail?17:59
jebbatimeless_mbp: correct.  +w doesnt do anything18:00
timeless_mbpjebba: doesn't do anything or complains and doesn't do anything?18:00
sejotimeless_mbp: thanks18:00
jebbaah, but a+w does.18:00
jebbatimeless_mbp: no complaints, just doesnt do anything18:00
timeless_mbpso roughly, the ulimit means it's a partial mode change18:00
timeless_mbpand a partial mode change is meaningless on a FAT file system18:00
timeless_mbpchmod 0555 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver18:00
timeless_mbpchmod 0755 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver18:01
timeless_mbpwhat happens there?18:01
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jebbabut things like this fail:   chmod -R o-w 2006-0*   (well, has no effect)18:01
timeless_mbpplease be careful18:01
timeless_mbp'no effect' and 'fail' are very different18:01
timeless_mbpso, roughly, a partial mode change is treated as an invalid thing18:02
timeless_mbpchmod 0777 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver18:02
timeless_mbpchmod 0755 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver18:02
timeless_mbpwhat happens there?18:03
timeless_mbpremember, fat does have a concept of 'readonly'18:03
timeless_mbpit just doesn't have a concept of groups, it's either readonly, or it isn't18:03
jebbatimeless_mbp: updated pastebin
timeless_mbpi'm not sure there's actually a bug here18:04
jebbaah, ok, i get it now.18:04
jebbahmm FAT18:04
timeless_mbpumask is what causes +w and friends to not be treated as 0yyy18:04
odin_no Very FAT lols18:04
timeless_mbpi believe that the error message from the image viewer app is also sane18:04
timeless_mbpbut, if you disagree, list it again, and i'll consider it18:05
jebbatimeless_mbp: ya, if you try to delete an image, should it chmod it? instead of just error?18:05
timeless_mbpno :)18:05
timeless_mbpbut can file manager change the readonly bit for you?18:05
jebbaheh. perhaps "this image is read-only, are you sure you want to delete?"  or somesuch?18:05
timeless_mbpimagine you have 20 pictures in a set of 1000 pictures18:06
timeless_mbpbecause you don't want to accidentally delete them18:06
timeless_mbpyou don't really want an image viewer to let you delete them <period>18:06
timeless_mbpanyway, can you remove the readonly bit from file manager?18:06
jebbatimeless_mbp: i dont see a way in filemanager to change perms18:07
timeless_mbplooks like they dropped that feature :(18:08
timeless_mbpfeel free to complain about file manager18:08
timeless_mbpthe rest of it is all reasonable18:08
sejohow can I easily create a screenshot18:08
jebbafor some reason i could delete all the default nokia images that came with the fone in the image viewer, except this image: digital_nature4_03.jpg   not sure why that was different (all blown away now so can't full investigate, but it was:  -rw-r--r-- )    timeless_mbp18:09
timeless_mbpsejo: ctrl-shift-p18:09
timeless_mbpjebba: was it your wallpaper?18:09
jebbadont' believe so. I was using default wallpaper at the time (not sure what that image looks like now)18:10
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timeless_mbpit was probably that one :)18:10
SpeedEvilIs htere any pic taking application that does not have the geolocation rounding bug?18:10
timeless_mbprounding bug?18:10
SpeedEvilIt rounds locations to whole seconds of lat/lon18:11
SpeedEvilmeaning a 30m*15m or so grid (in UK)18:11
jebbatimeless_mbp: one other thing, re: wall papers.  I had an image which I wanted to use as wallpaper. Needed to rotate it -90° and crop, which i did in the image viewer (very nice, btw).  But then when i went to use it as a wallpaper, it got rotated *back* to it's original rotation, maybe due to EXIF info or something.  I just edited it in gimp on laptop and deleted EXIF and it worked.18:11
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timeless_mbpjebba: file a bug18:12
sp3000hm, I was uder the impression the desktop (and avatars) don't support exif orientation, rather?18:12
sp3000and that the immage edit uses it rather than transforming the data18:13
timeless_mbpjebba: try loading the picture (pre gimp) in the browser18:13
sp3000but icbw18:13
timeless_mbpthe browser doesn't support exif18:13
timeless_mbp(not a bug)18:13
timeless_mbpso if image viewer is cheating (quite likely)18:13
timeless_mbpthen the bug is in desktop for not supporting a feature exposed by the image viewer "platform"18:13
sp3000camera too, so no setting avatars from portrait portraits :)18:13
timeless_mbpsp3000: so, does that make it a missing feature in gtkpixbuf? :)18:14
lardmanhm Qt channel very quiet18:14
sp3000heh, dunno18:14
lardmanis there a Qt equivalent to osso_initialize()?18:15
sp3000for moz upstream it's 298619 and rather inactive18:15
timeless_mbpsp3000: it's likely it'd break the web :)18:15
sp3000sometimes bugs me when looking at a full size image at flickr, as the scaled versions are manged t orientation but the original is original and may be exif'd to orientation18:15
sp3000I dunno, I suspect it would fix more than break18:16
sp3000hmm, I'm missing pesto18:17
timeless_mbpdepends how often there's stray exif data uses in sites which didn't know about it18:17
timeless_mbphrm, pizza hut here has pesto18:17
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sp3000and olives18:17
sp3000so does my fridge ;)18:17
* timeless_mbp has olives18:17
* timeless_mbp goes to read 'maybe spam'18:18
jebbatimeless_mbp: ok, browser shows it "upright", image viewer shows it "sideways" (how I want it), background shows it "upright"18:18
timeless_mbpyeah, file a bug against desktop18:18
timeless_mbpdon't bother filing one against browser. i will kill it. i promise18:18
lardmanmmm, olives18:19
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jebbatimeless_mbp: ok thx.  sry for noise   (esp. re: FAT)18:19
* timeless_mbp shrugs18:20
timeless_mbpit's fun18:20
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timeless_mbpok, so where was i?18:20
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timeless_mbptodo: write a po editor18:21
timeless_mbp. fix engb18:21
timeless_mbp. fix maps18:21
timeless_mbp. help a local18:21
timeless_mbp. eat breakfast18:21
SpeedEvilA poo editor?18:21
sp3000so how would you solve connections priorization to avoid automatically preferring annoying hotels and whatnots that require some silly possibly paid login instead of working immediately?18:21
SpeedEvil ?18:21
* SpeedEvil ponders a digitally controlled one.18:22
timeless_mbpsp3000: without using drag and drop?18:22
lardmanlike those r/c snakes18:22
jebbahmm, HOWTO take screenshot?   Best if I can do it from command line via SSH.   Cuz if i take a screenshot of the desktop as it is now, it will explain bug much better than words  :)18:22
timeless_mbpand without being arrested for aiding digital tresspassing?18:22
timeless_mbpsp3000: personally18:22
sp3000I'm thinking the scheme should be moving connections between three tiers, "preferred", "autoconnect", "manual"18:22
timeless_mbpi'd use the mozilla approach18:22
timeless_mbpyou connect to a network18:22
jebbaah, via VNC  :=18:22
timeless_mbpbut that doesn't save it18:22
timeless_mbpto save the network, you tap the network indicator and select save18:22
timeless_mbpthe save thing lets you add a comment, and specify a preference18:23
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timeless_mbpfor networks you don't save, they're left in a provisional bin18:23
sp3000those tiers effectively exist already; all wifis go to preferred, cellular goes to autoconnect or manual depending on your answer to the autoconnect prompt (or later twweaking in cpl)18:23
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SpeedEvilautoconnect to unsecured wifi may not be legal though.18:24
timeless_mbpfrom memory the networking ui is maemo4 or maemo3, not maemo518:24
timeless_mbpso we're talking about rewriting it :)18:24
timeless_mbpsp3000: do you have objections to my general approach?18:24
timeless_mbpby the time you're using the ui i describe, it's trivial to have the dialog specify as a dropdown option preferred, manual18:24
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: not generally relevant18:24
timeless_mbpautoconnect is a distinct feature18:24
SpeedEviloops - misread18:25
timeless_mbpthe feature i was talking about but which we haven't covered is connecting to a network and pinging a well known host18:25
timeless_mbpsome stupid state would probably claim that's digital tresspass18:25
sp3000I'm basically suggesting the ability to demote wifis from preferred to autoconnect but not preferred , or manual18:25
timeless_mbpsp3000: i'm not opposed18:25
SpeedEvilIs there a way of connecting to two networks? I want to bridge my wifi and cell-radio to act as a modem18:25
timeless_mbpbut, to do that, we'd need to redo the ui18:25
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: technically yes18:26
timeless_mbpfrom the ui, no18:26
SpeedEviltimeless: k18:26
SpeedEvilThought not18:26
sp3000in the general case, I think doing the simple thing and dumping wifis to preferred without questions may be the best alternative18:26
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: while nokia is trying to sell directly18:26
timeless_mbpwe're also not trying to piss off cellular carriers more than necessary :)18:26
sp3000simple case simple and tweak in cpl18:26
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: sorry - sell directly? ah18:26
timeless_mbpbesides, designing a ui for that is painful18:26
timeless_mbpand no such ui would be 'simple'18:27
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: somewhat.18:27
timeless_mbpand simple is a ui design goal18:27
sp3000otoh the case where you're discovering sucky wifis gets a bit circumlocutious, but it always was18:27
timeless_mbpsp3000: sorry, can you explain the categories again?18:27
timeless_mbpsp3000: i should plug devicescape18:27
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: I'm unsure what'd be wrong with the wireless net simply taking all packets routed for its netmask.18:27
timeless_mbp(disclaimer, my cousin works for them)18:27
sp3000preferred is a set to which you get connected if available even if you already have a lower tier connection18:27
SpeedEvilBut yes, it would add hard-to-debug corner cases18:28
sp3000autoconnect is one you get autoconnected to if nothing else is available (cellular if you say "yes" to autoconnect)18:28
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: given that we can't get the basic corner cases right18:28
sp3000manual never autoconnects18:28
timeless_mbpi'd rather not go there :)18:28
timeless_mbpsp3000: so18:29
timeless_mbpi think my approach is right18:29
sp3000I don't think the autoconnect set would act preferred over the manual set as in disconnecting from a manually connected thing to hop over there; only preferred would do that18:29
timeless_mbpnamely the status area should let you promote/demote/note the network18:29
timeless_mbppreferably geotag it18:29
* timeless_mbp wonders if devicescape has shipped for the n900 yet18:30
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sp3000yeah, access to demote without going through cpl would fix the discovering sucky wifis case adequately I think, it could probably be shoehorned into that dialog18:33
w00ttimeless_mbp: got a minute to try reproduce something a bit weird?18:33
w00ttap the top left repeatedly (going between switcher and launcher)18:33
timeless_mbpsp3000: that dialog needs to be taken out back and shot18:33
w00twhile doing this, I often end up at a blurred background (similar to launcher/switcher) with no items18:34
w00tI can reproduce this on two devices, but I'm not sure whether it's universal as Stskeeps can't18:34
loft306scrambled eggs18:34
sp3000receiving bacon frame18:35
timeless_mbpw00t: ask the channel18:35
* timeless_mbp goes back to engb18:35
w00tok, anyone else want to have a play with that one? :-)18:35
SpeedEviltimeless: seems to make sense18:35
loft306dont got it w00t18:36
w00tloft306: are you pressing fairly rapidly? (once per 0.5 seconds)18:37
w00tI wonder why I'm special :-)18:37
loft306see buth things on screen at once but no scramble18:38
povbot`Bug 6632: Background image does not show correct rotation18:38
w00tnot a scramble, loft306, and it isn't always instantly triggerable, but I can always get it within about 10-20 seconds18:38
timeless_mbpjebba: well filed, good steps to reproduce18:38
loft306no just see both launcher and switcher on screen at the same time18:39
ShadowJKam I the only one who thinks the current connectivity ui is good as is? :P18:39
sp3000fwiw I'm not sure if wifis in the middle tier makes sense or not18:39
loft306till i stop and one fades out18:39
w00tShadowJK: I don't mind it18:39
SpeedEvilw00t: I just tried it or a minute or so, and it diddn't do it at all18:39
w00tthis is insane :P18:39
SpeedEvilw00t: That is - it simply switched between - though occasionally stalling for a moment.18:39
jebbatimeless_mbp: thx18:39
timeless_mbpsp3000: what's really needed is "ignore this network, it sucks"18:39
* loft306 is DangerMaus18:39
SpeedEvilw00t: 3 apps.18:39
w00tI only have web bookmarks and an IM window open18:40
sp3000that's kind of the bottom tier, but otoh I didn't think of any ...warning indicator for that18:40
w00tlet me see if that matters18:40
loft306same as SpeedEvil  for results18:40
SpeedEvilw00t: calculator, a webpage, and file manager18:40
sp3000and some of the bottom tier items may be thnigs you do want but just often not18:40
loft306as we all break something18:41
w00ttriggered with web bookmarks only open.. let's change that to calculator and see what happens18:41
w00ttriggered with calculator too. I'm at a loss..18:41
* w00t thinks18:42
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SpeedEvilHas anyone had issues with the statusbar loadmeter?18:42
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SpeedEvilFor me it coincided with wifi not working18:42
w00tthat's what it looks like18:42
* w00t tries moving desktops to see if that matters somehow18:44
loft306hmm with calc i get it to drop out of launcher/switcher to the background here and there but not blurry18:44
w00tloft306: that occurs when it was blurry like that and you press anywhere18:45
loft306alrite enough of this18:45
w00tso chances are it registered a press on the background and went to desktop18:45
loft306thats what i was thinking18:45
w00treproduced on another desktop, so that's not it18:45
w00ttheme differs on the two devices, so that's not it18:46
* hardaker2 wonders why /usr/share can't be entirely moved to /opt18:46
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loft306just your devices w00t  your special :P18:46
w00tit always occurs when going to the launcher screen, never the switcher, which makes sense given there is no button to open the launcher screen18:48
jebbawould be nice to move  /  to /opt   ;)18:48
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hardaker2jebba: hah.  yeah.  though I understand the reason why they did it that way, they still should have made / larger.18:49
* hardaker2 considers porting gparted and wonders how that would work ;-)18:49
hardaker2my / is now full :-(18:49
hardaker2it's a lot of painful maintance to fix it.18:49
jebbahardaker2: don't reboot until you fix it or you may have to flash  (I went thru that...)18:50
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jebbaget to 99% at least18:50
hardaker2Ah, good to know.  thanks.18:51
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hardaker2I've dropped it down to about 99 already but I'm glad to have heard that.18:51
LeoDhm, how big is /?18:51
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hardaker2rootfs                  233104    226900      1920  99% /18:52
sp3000GB/4 + compression18:52
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hardaker2I think someone said it was safe to move /var/cache to /opt but I haven't.18:53
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odin_hardaker2, run "du -s /var/lib/dpkg"18:54
odin_28Mb of 233Mb, quite a bit....18:54
hardaker2info being the big one.18:54
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odin_I moved mine to /home/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg  (I wrote a script on what I did)18:55
timeless_mbpandre__: i can't find the sources for sbox218:55
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hardaker2you've rebooted since then I assume?18:55
hardaker2(though there is no reason it should be needed before /home is mounted)18:56
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odin_yes and installed some apps18:56
timeless_mbpsp3000: some crappy work network? :)18:56
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timeless_mbphardaker2: i've already explained why we can't move things to /opt18:57
timeless_mbpgo read the channel logs18:57
sejohmm /10118:57
hardaker2timeless_mbp: I understand the technical reasons.18:57
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hardaker2but the current solution isn't workable.18:57
timeless_mbpyou mean not wanting to screw customers?18:57
timeless_mbpyou call that a technical reason?18:57
sp3000yeah I'm not sure if that sort of thing shouldn't just be in the bottom tier anyhow18:58
sejodoes the maemo speak caldav?18:58
hardaker2timeless_mbp: I should say I understand *why* things are done the way they are; but / is too small for it to be a usable system for any reasonable amount of pkg installs.18:58
timeless_mbphardaker2: not if everyone installs into /opt18:59
timeless_mbp(not technically a great answer for the same reasons, but hey)18:59
hardaker2timeless_mbp: Yep.  there are a *ton* of things that should be in /opt that aren't.  I agree.18:59
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timeless_mbpare there?18:59
hardaker2but none-the-less: packaging is harder.18:59
timeless_mbpthey shouldn't get promoted18:59
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* timeless_mbp shrugs19:00
timeless_mbpwhat we should have done was just setup a second package root in /opt19:00
timeless_mbpand use that19:00
hardaker2124160  /usr/share19:00
timeless_mbpit requires a bit more magic at the apt level19:00
timeless_mbpbut it'd be better19:00
odin_hardaker2,  (try that, just comment out the last line which does the removal if you are not sure, it backs it up to a tar.gz file anyhow)19:00
hardaker2odin_: thanks; I'll look at it.19:01
hardaker2there are two ways to separate out things that have to be in / vs those that don't.19:01
timeless_mbpodin_: you're assuming he used command line to install junk?19:01
* timeless_mbp shrugs19:01
ShadowJKI guess python somehow slipped through and was in extras before it was optified? :(19:01
timeless_mbphardaker2: so, nokia screwed up19:01
hardaker21) assume everyone can move stuff to /opt when packaging (including all the people that have been doing it other ways for everything they've packaged in the past)19:01
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timeless_mbpfixing it is incredibly hard19:01
odin_timeless_mbp, assuming in what way?19:02
w00tShadowJK: afaik python doesn't work optified atm19:02
timeless_mbpand way too late for a product that solidified months ago19:02
ShadowJKw00t, i think it does now?19:02
odin_timeless_mbp, I used HAM to install junk and still had not space19:02
timeless_mbpodin_: that cache dir is only used by apt, not ham19:02
hardaker22) mark *only* the things that need to be in / as in / and move common directories to /opt and package the criticial ones separately (which could be done by experts at nokia)19:02
w00tyou might be right19:02
w00tI don't know19:02
timeless_mbpodin_: that's because you didn't reboot19:02
timeless_mbpand someone held open file handles19:02
timeless_mbp"experts at nokia"19:02
timeless_mbpthe experts are what gave you what you have, and19:03
timeless_mbpyou expect something better later?19:03
odin_timeless_mbp, no before rebootting I took a look at that issue, and couild not see any open file handlers to anonymous files19:03
timeless_mbpwhat are you smoking, and can i have some?19:03
hardaker2I'm stating what the world *should* be like.  Which means that in the world I'm describing, yes there *should* be experts at nokia.19:03
hardaker2I'm not, however, describing what currently exists -;)19:03
ShadowJKI guess that the "experts" never imagine to install so many apps that the / would fill up without optification :)19:03
w00teveryone is humajn19:03
odin_timeless_mbp, HAM does appear to update the apt repo dirs, I have never installed anything with "apt-get" (yet) but I still had only 7Mb free on rootfs19:03
timeless_mbpodin_: ham is not supposed to use the apt cache dir19:04
* sp3000 is a unicorn19:04
* ShadowJK is pretty content after having installed ssh, rsync, mplayer, gpodder, xchat, and most of that probably went to /19:04
timeless_mbpyou're moving /var/lib/dpkg19:04
timeless_mbpi assumed you moved the other one19:04
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timeless_mbpyeah, that one should move19:04
timeless_mbpit can't move for roughly the same reason19:05
timeless_mbpbecause it'd cause a system flash to be broken19:05
timeless_mbpso, no :)19:05
odin_ /var/lib/dpkg was eating like 5% and could easily grow to 10% (as more package come about) so I elected it to move :)19:05
odin_shall I open a bug report to move it in next release ?19:05
timeless_mbpbasically, that breaks system updates19:05
timeless_mbptotally pointless, it won't work19:05
timeless_mbpsee my original explanation for why system stuff can't be in /ppt19:06
ShadowJKwouldn't system flash restore the original?19:06
timeless_mbpit can't19:06
timeless_mbpsystem flash only touches ubifs19:06
timeless_mbpif it fries /home, then the customer is screwed19:06
timeless_mbpbecause we ate 2gb of his *user* data19:06
odin_but when ubifs boots up the first time, it can run and offer to re-link/re-set suiff in /home19:06