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| crashanddie_mbp | yo | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
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| javispedro | another mbp? :) | 00:05 |
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| mece | hello | 00:08 |
| mece | what's an mbp? | 00:08 |
| naxxatoe | macbook pro | 00:08 |
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| mece | oic | 00:08 |
| crashanddie_mbp | heh javispedro yeah, couldn't resist the bargain | 00:08 |
| javispedro | :) | 00:08 |
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| mece | is butterfly or haze more easy on the battery? | 00:09 |
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| mece | oh haze isn't even in testing yet. bummer. | 00:09 |
| mece | I'll just go with butterfly for now then. | 00:10 |
| woglinde | args | 00:10 |
| woglinde | no glu | 00:10 |
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| javispedro | no glu, no glut | 00:10 |
| javispedro | no glx | 00:10 |
| javispedro | .... | 00:10 |
| woglinde | hm why no glu? | 00:11 |
| javispedro | IMHO it's easier to port things from the iphone than from desktop linux using desktop opengl | 00:11 |
| javispedro | there's some third party glu around here | 00:11 |
| mece | teehee | 00:11 |
| javispedro | btw you'd never know how many times nokians tend to pronounce "iphone" | 00:12 |
| javispedro | actually, I kinda remember the marketing vicepresident saying the word "iphoneish" | 00:12 |
| mece | isn't that in the dictionary? | 00:12 |
| javispedro | (only for someone to ask on a later talk "why do designers always choose to copy apple?" which I though was a pretty direct to the point but maybe-offensive question) | 00:13 |
| Stskeeps | heh, a lot of designs are copied from nokia tablets too | 00:14 |
| Stskeeps | just see many of the new devices coming out | 00:14 |
| javispedro | have to agree with that one | 00:15 |
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| jebba | maemo-optify-buildpackage didn't get included in the .deb of maemo-optify | 00:15 |
| javispedro | I was walking the other day and found quite a large ad -- which I initially believed to be about the n810 | 00:15 |
| javispedro | of course, it was a moto droid ad | 00:15 |
| javispedro | an ad that most guys in maebar probably had to walk over | 00:16 |
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| Stskeeps | for some reason i'm thinking about those monolith things with commercials in them and a photo of maemoians around it, 2001 space odessy style..\ | 00:17 |
| woglinde | hm maybee I can recompile freeglut | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | with a n900 commercial, obviously | 00:17 |
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| jebba | woglinde: good luck. I was poking at that last night. | 00:18 |
| woglinde | jebba oh | 00:18 |
| woglinde | double work again | 00:18 |
| javispedro | glut is not that complex | 00:18 |
| jebba | ya, but i bailed on it, so go for it ;) | 00:18 |
| * luke-jr ponders a smarter VCS | 00:18 | |
| jebba | javispedro: have you built it for maemo? | 00:18 |
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| javispedro | why port it and not rewrite? | 00:18 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: what would you think of a VCS that dissected source code? | 00:18 |
| woglinde | jebba but I wonder how it got into extras | 00:18 |
| jebba | granted, i was learning .deb packaging at the same time, but it wanted some stuff not in xorg built iirc | 00:19 |
| woglinde | hm maybee per dput | 00:19 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: parsing code isn't always trivial | 00:19 |
| javispedro | because there's no glx | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: not always ;) | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: but in theory | 00:19 |
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| luke-jr | if it cut it up into ASTs and diffed those | 00:19 |
| jebba | javispedro: ya, that iirc :) | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | while preserving formatting info | 00:19 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: the main issue is comments | 00:19 |
| javispedro | jebba: with no glx and with the reduced number of functions the average glut app uses, you can more easily create your own reimplementation of it | 00:19 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: idea isn't bad but gain > effort? not sure | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: comments are part of formatting info in this case | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: well, it could resolve symbols too | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | so a diff would become "renamed symbol foo to oldfoo" | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | then it would have to know about build system | 00:20 |
| ali1234 | sure, you can reimplement glut. but first you have to reimplement glu | 00:20 |
| ali1234 | and let me tell you, that isn't fun | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: not necessarily, just the language | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: considering how "cheap" storage is these days, it might not be worth the processing time | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | in most cases | 00:20 |
| javispedro | ali1234: from the subset of the "Most commonly used GLUT functions" that I'm thinking about none uses GLU | 00:21 |
| luke-jr | the point isn't to save on storage | 00:21 |
| luke-jr | the point is merging ;) | 00:21 |
| javispedro | and GLU (the I'm-doing-the-maths-for-you-part) should be easy to port to GL 1.1 | 00:21 |
| ali1234 | hell, you don't even get half of GL | 00:22 |
| javispedro | the other parts... | 00:22 |
| jebba | javispedro: i can't more easily create my own reimplementation. I was just trying to rebuild a .deb. | 00:22 |
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| javispedro | jebba: forget about porting GLUT unless it has an EGL backend | 00:22 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: OK, total effort and processing time than one human merging a patch manually when a automatic one fails? | 00:22 |
| Stskeeps | +more | 00:23 |
| ali1234 | nobody uses GLUT these days anyway | 00:23 |
| javispedro | you'll end up with such a large patchset that you'll get into maintainance hell | 00:23 |
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| javispedro | (even though, is GLUT updated these days? =) | 00:23 |
| ali1234 | nope, not for a few years now i think | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: you're assuming the merge is done by a developer | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: I'm assuming a wide variety of heads merged by the end user | 00:24 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: that said, it could be an interesting measure of code contributions | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 00:25 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if he's confused. | 00:26 | |
| woglinde | javis hm | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | modest says wrong username or password | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | from pop3 | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | according to tcpdump, it's simply saying 'CAPA' - then QUIT | 00:26 |
| javispedro | luke-jr: your idea rings a bell for a reason.. | 00:27 |
| javispedro | s/a/some | 00:27 |
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| luke-jr | javispedro: ? | 00:27 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: is that what darcs does? | 00:27 |
| luke-jr | I never understood darcs completely XD | 00:27 |
| javispedro | luke-jr: I think darcs doesn't do that. Though I remember reading about an "AST" version control system. | 00:28 |
| luke-jr | hm | 00:28 |
| javispedro | google gets a few hits | 00:29 |
| javispedro | http://tjaard.nl/2005/05/21/smart-version-controlling-why-diff-is-just-not-enough/ | 00:29 |
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| woglinde | hms okay | 00:30 |
| woglinde | freeglut needs glu | 00:30 |
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| jebba | and the pain begins... | 00:31 |
| woglinde | *g* | 00:31 |
| Ashenburg | is there a conpletion key in maemo? like tab in i.e ubuntu? | 00:31 |
| Ashenburg | lol nm! | 00:31 |
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| javispedro | woglinde: what for? | 00:32 |
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| javispedro | other than just stupidly depending on it... | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, that sounds vaguely similar to when I tried to use modest on N810. tcpdump revealed similar "wtf?" as you, and modest itself said something stupid and wrong | 00:33 |
| javispedro | either way, as I said, dependency on GLU is not your problem. dependency on GLX _is_ | 00:33 |
| javispedro | GLUT|ES is a port of the OpenSource freeglut implementation for WinCE and Win32 systems ... | 00:34 |
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| woglinde | javis yes | 00:35 |
| xorAxAx | does the n900 have a net monitor? | 00:35 |
| woglinde | javis where did you found it? | 00:36 |
| xorAxAx | i.e. infos about reachable cells with their signal strength | 00:36 |
| ShadowJK | xorAxAx, we haven't seen any | 00:36 |
| javispedro | damn google and their new fangled long urls in the results page | 00:36 |
| jebba | so can you just blow out that Dependency: glu line and continue on ok? | 00:36 |
| javispedro | woglinde: http://glutes.sourceforge.net/ | 00:36 |
| LinuxCode | javispedro, +1 | 00:37 |
| woglinde | hm sounds cool | 00:37 |
| woglinde | lets see | 00:37 |
| LinuxCode | one reason to switch search engines | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | In photos, some pre-production units seemed to have Nokia Energy Profiler, and if it's the same as on Symbian, it'd log signal strength for the current cell, and 3G timers (which are relevant and important for power saving stuff) | 00:37 |
| xorAxAx | ShadowJK: is there any way to get that info from the chip? | 00:37 |
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| ShadowJK | afaik there are no standard AT commands to retrieve that info | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | you might be able to get cell id and signal strength for the *currently* used cell though | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | though I don't know how :) | 00:38 |
| javispedro | woglinde: depending on what they have done you may get away by just grabbing the glut|es and creating the required #ifdefs around the win32 calls :) | 00:38 |
| woglinde | yes | 00:38 |
| woglinde | I will look at it | 00:38 |
| woglinde | 4 years old | 00:38 |
| woglinde | maybee still a lot work to do | 00:38 |
| javispedro | less maintainance work :) | 00:38 |
| asidjazz | sup fellas | 00:40 |
| jebba | hey | 00:40 |
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| KMFDM | ach | 00:41 |
| KMFDM | my mobile internet provider | 00:41 |
| KMFDM | has blocked nearly every port on their mobile internet | 00:41 |
| KMFDM | in order to 'enforce the FUP forbidden use of voip' | 00:41 |
| * javispedro curses | 00:41 | |
| javispedro | ouch | 00:41 |
| KMFDM | forbidding* | 00:42 |
| javispedro | the SDK tools repo has GNU make 3.80 while the sbox devkits have GNU make 3.81 | 00:42 |
| KMFDM | and i bought it a month ago before they were doing this | 00:42 |
| KMFDM | so im stuck with them for a year | 00:42 |
| KMFDM | b/c they didn't change their contract terms | 00:42 |
| luke-jr | KMFDM: screwed up country you're in | 00:42 |
| KMFDM | luke-jr, well i think multiple countries are affected | 00:42 |
| KMFDM | it is vodafone | 00:42 |
| luke-jr | your contract doesn't guarantee you internet access? | 00:43 |
| luke-jr | blocking ports is no longer access | 00:43 |
| woglinde | javis hm only visualstudio setup | 00:43 |
| javispedro | no Makefiles? so I guess they removed the unix stuff from freeglut | 00:43 |
| woglinde | jupp | 00:43 |
| KMFDM | luke-jr, im guaranteed internet access besides VoIP, but they are claiming they aren't blocking ports | 00:43 |
| woglinde | but I am good at autotools | 00:44 |
| woglinde | should be easy to recover | 00:44 |
| KMFDM | i haven't tried calling support myself yet | 00:44 |
| KMFDM | i'm going to try to terminate my contract if they don't fix it | 00:44 |
| luke-jr | good idea | 00:44 |
| KMFDM | I'm calling on monday, but I was researching to see if other people had the same issue | 00:44 |
| KMFDM | and discovered what was going on | 00:44 |
| javispedro | woglinde: that, or "merge" both freegluts :) | 00:44 |
| luke-jr | and once you get past this, use SSL VoIP to spite them | 00:44 |
| woglinde | javis na | 00:45 |
| KMFDM | luke-jr, yeah i'm pretty sure google talk's voip still works fine | 00:45 |
| woglinde | writing from sratch is easy | 00:45 |
| luke-jr | KMFDM: in the meantime, don't use VoIP, so you're clear if it goes to court | 00:45 |
| KMFDM | luke-jr, i haven't | 00:45 |
| javispedro | woglinde: good luck | 00:45 |
| KMFDM | it is ridiculous. i can't get on msn, aim or IRC unless i tunnel through ssl or make an ssh tunnel | 00:46 |
| Stskeeps | complain? | 00:46 |
| KMFDM | Stskeeps, going to monday | 00:46 |
| woglinde | javis jupp | 00:47 |
| javispedro | :) well, gnite | 00:47 |
| type_t | what Voip carrier is that? | 00:47 |
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| KMFDM | type_t, it isnt' a voip carrier | 00:50 |
| KMFDM | my mobile provider in an attempt to block voip apps | 00:51 |
| KMFDM | have apparently also blocked all 'chat applications' because they 'compete' with their 'sms service' | 00:51 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 00:51 |
| type_t | can you use this proxy ti.tftp.vonage.net ? is there a way to find out? | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | my mobile operator sent sip settings for their own voip service to my e75.. | 00:52 |
| Stskeeps | KMFDM: i would take my money somewhere else at that point | 00:52 |
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| KMFDM | Stskeeps, already planning to | 00:53 |
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| KMFDM | i just have to get them to let me out of my year contract | 00:53 |
| Stskeeps | KMFDM: you can probably claim the service changed in such a way that it no longer matches what you went into | 00:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:53 |
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| KMFDM | if they did indeed block chat apps intentionally they have stopped fulfilling the original contract | 00:53 |
| KMFDM | aye | 00:53 |
| type_t | KMFDM .we are all behind you ;p | 00:54 |
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| woglinde | hm | 00:56 |
| woglinde | need to find out if it is gles v1 or v2 | 00:56 |
| LinuxCode | KMFDM, change providers, and tell them to shuv their service where the sun does not shine | 00:57 |
| woglinde | hm ah its gles v1 | 00:57 |
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| LinuxCode | or complain to trading standards, if your country has something like it | 00:58 |
| KMFDM | LinuxCode, this ist he best part | 00:58 |
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| KMFDM | "according to the terms of service is the use of voip, SMSoIP and tethering not permitted. " | 00:59 |
| KMFDM | wtf is smsoIP | 00:59 |
| LinuxCode | quite frankly that is uncompetitive behaviour | 00:59 |
| KMFDM | well first of all that is nowhere in their contract | 00:59 |
| Stskeeps | sending text messages over the internet | 00:59 |
| KMFDM | LinuxCode, they have a 3x as expensive service that allows voIP | 00:59 |
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| KMFDM | but now they are trying to force everyone on to it by blocking chat services on everything else | 01:00 |
| KMFDM | even though that is NOT in their contract | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Check the definition of 'voip' | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | it may include chat | 01:00 |
| LinuxCode | KMFDM, contact a voip provider | 01:00 |
| LinuxCode | and say this compnay is stiffling competition | 01:00 |
| LinuxCode | that is what happened to many companies before | 01:00 |
| LinuxCode | they got done for uncompetitive practices | 01:01 |
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| KMFDM | LinuxCode, the company is already being investigated by our government and the EU commission, but by also offering a service not blocking them they have basically made it impossible to take action against them | 01:01 |
| LinuxCode | there you go ;-D | 01:01 |
| LinuxCode | dont count on it | 01:01 |
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| LinuxCode | KMFDM, is this a provider starting with V, or O, or T ? | 01:02 |
| LinuxCode | hehe | 01:02 |
| KMFDM | Vodafone heh | 01:02 |
| LinuxCode | interesting | 01:02 |
| KMFDM | to top it off they implemented the port blocking during a network outage that lasted at least 2 days and for some users longer | 01:03 |
| AakashPatel | is there already a google voice app for maemo? | 01:03 |
| AakashPatel | maemo 5* | 01:03 |
| KMFDM | AakashPatel, it is built into telepathy-haze i believe | 01:03 |
| AakashPatel | Google Voice? | 01:03 |
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| AakashPatel | I dont believe that's possible, the API's are still closed. | 01:04 |
| jebba | AakashPatel: you can call people via google. google talk i think it is though. | 01:04 |
| AakashPatel | Ah | 01:04 |
| AakashPatel | Well, I'm workin on a Google Voice app for maemo :) | 01:04 |
| AakashPatel | For all you poeple out there with an account | 01:04 |
| LinuxCode | KMFDM, that means, you did not sign up for that | 01:04 |
| jebba | dunno what the difference is | 01:04 |
| LinuxCode | and they changed Terms of Service | 01:04 |
| AakashPatel | jeanjean, google.com/voice | 01:05 |
| LinuxCode | means you have a right to cancel | 01:05 |
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| LinuxCode | or to object | 01:05 |
| jebba | but i can make a google talk voice call to another google talk user fine | 01:05 |
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| LinuxCode | if you object they will be in trouble haha | 01:05 |
| LinuxCode | then they have to accomodate you | 01:05 |
| KMFDM | LinuxCode, exactly | 01:05 |
| LinuxCode | so write a letter and object, and if they havent even informed you, contact trading standards | 01:06 |
| LinuxCode | <3 Europe | 01:06 |
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| woglinde | wahahah | 01:10 |
| woglinde | /usr/include/GLES/egl.h:1:21: error: EGL/egl.h: No such file or directory | 01:10 |
| woglinde | nice | 01:10 |
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| user__ | so i just got back fron tmobile and got ma plan and a sim and i git the techi and he knew to ask if it was a smartphone so i didnt have to give them my IMEI | 01:15 |
| user__ | to get the data to work | 01:16 |
| user__ | oops | 01:16 |
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| wazd_5130 | Hehe | 01:17 |
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| woglinde | hm lets see how clutter handle this | 01:17 |
| woglinde | hi wazd | 01:17 |
| wazd_5130 | Java irc client ) | 01:17 |
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| wazd_5130 | Weird but acceptable as backup | 01:19 |
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| woglinde | wazd didnt try java yet for fremantle | 01:20 |
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| wazd_5130 | That's not maemo, it's s40) | 01:21 |
| woglinde | bah | 01:21 |
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| wazd_5130 | At least it works) | 01:22 |
| woglinde | hm intressting clutter fails | 01:23 |
| wazd_5130 | K, gtg sleep, later ) | 01:23 |
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| woglinde | wonder how they build clutter for fremantle | 01:24 |
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| zemm | timeless_mbp: when you said that symlinking something from /usr causes problems when flashing the device (?), can those be solved by flashing both the root and eMMC, since i noticed those are separate processes? | 01:25 |
| zemm | according to wiki | 01:25 |
| woglinde | whahaha | 01:26 |
| woglinde | libEGL is in place | 01:26 |
| woglinde | but not the headers | 01:26 |
| woglinde | this suckz | 01:26 |
| timeless_mbp | zemm: you mean by eating your user data? | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | well um | 01:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | do you not care about user data? | 01:27 |
| zemm | well, backups, backups ;) | 01:27 |
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| zemm | i'm more willing to take daily backups than seeing the 100% full / | 01:28 |
| yuizy | can i use the maemo5 sdk also in building for n810? | 01:28 |
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| DM_900 | damg wating e batterymeter move now that im on gsm | 01:31 |
| DM_900 | *watching | 01:31 |
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| woglinde | hms | 01:38 |
| woglinde | seems I have to download newer sdk myself | 01:39 |
| woglinde | let me find my imgtrc account | 01:39 |
| woglinde | imgtec | 01:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | heh, woglinde :-) | 01:41 |
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| woglinde | jo doc | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | qwelcome on "the dark side" ;-P | 01:42 |
| woglinde | nokia should fix this | 01:43 |
| woglinde | with newer sgx sdk | 01:43 |
| woglinde | why the heck they ship this version | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | woglinde, got a NIT now? | 01:44 |
| ali1234 | woglinde, install the -dev packages | 01:44 |
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| woglinde | ali1234 thats not the problem | 01:44 |
| woglinde | nokia shiped the sgx-sdk where the EGL headers wasnt installed | 01:45 |
| woglinde | imgtec fixed it in laterversions | 01:45 |
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| ali1234 | how did i manage to compile things then? | 01:45 |
| ali1234 | with "#include <EGL/egl.h>" | 01:45 |
| woglinde | ali maybee I have the wrong version | 01:46 |
| ali1234 | are you using the x86 version? | 01:46 |
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| woglinde | I did deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/xxxxx nokia-binaries | 01:46 |
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| woglinde | and get version | 01:46 |
| woglinde | 0.20090218.51+0m5 | 01:47 |
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| ali1234 | of what package? | 01:47 |
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| woglinde | opengles-sgx-img-common | 01:47 |
| ali1234 | not opengles-sgx-img-common-dev ? | 01:47 |
| KenYoung | Does anyone know how I can put an N900 into portrait mode from a C program? | 01:47 |
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| woglinde | args | 01:48 |
| woglinde | thanks | 01:48 |
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| woglinde | its to late | 01:48 |
| woglinde | hm ah I realize the problem now | 01:49 |
| woglinde | wrong dep of libgles1-sgx-img-dev | 01:49 |
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| woglinde | it has no dep on opengles-sgx-img-common-dev which it should have | 01:49 |
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| sejo | someone knows how to install codecs for videa/music on the maemo? | 01:52 |
| sejo | (n900) | 01:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sejo, enable maemo extras repository in progman, search for gstreamer packages | 01:55 |
| sejo | DocScrutinizer: thx trying | 01:56 |
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| djkrikke | DocScrutinizer, you got a n900? | 02:00 |
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| nonversation | does the N900 run google maps | 02:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | no | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | In that you can use the website, but not the app | 02:02 |
| nonversation | what about the ovi maps/navigation? does it have free turn by turn? | 02:02 |
| Gadgetoid | got my n900 playing video to the output and running irc simultaneously.... frikkin awesome | 02:02 |
| djkrikke | nice one Gadgetoid | 02:03 |
| djkrikke | I'm willing to talk to someone with a n900 about the user experiences, do you have some time Gadgetoid? | 02:03 |
| woglinde | Gadgetoid video is dsp | 02:04 |
| woglinde | so there should be enough cpu-power for irc | 02:04 |
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| Gadgetoid | so are transitions so switching apps chugs the vid | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | nonversation: no turn by turn | 02:04 |
| nonversation | ouch | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Or there is turn by turn - but no voice | 02:05 |
| nonversation | then what is ovi maps for? | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | it will route you to a destination | 02:05 |
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| fnordianslippers | avoiding | 02:05 |
| Gadgetoid | what do you want to know djkrikke? | 02:05 |
| nonversation | it will provide directions ? | 02:05 |
| nonversation | but with no voice | 02:05 |
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| nonversation | what about other gps programs | 02:06 |
| nonversation | anything out as of yet or in the works for the N900 that would do this? | 02:06 |
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| simula_ | wow, xchat looks really nice on the n900 | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | nonversation: not really as I understand it. | 02:07 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: I didn't get ovi maps to work | 02:07 |
| djkrikke | well, I've been reading about the n900, and my impression is that this device needs as much "maintenance" as a linux desktop computer would need. I'm coming from an iphone 3GS and like tweaking etc, but I'm wondering if the device is really usable without lots of extra tools/tweaks (for example video). How bad is it? | 02:07 |
| Gadgetoid | aye super smooth xchat, needs kinetic scrolling though | 02:07 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: it found where I was, it found my location, but then didn't tell me where to go or what to do | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | djkrikke: what do you mean 'maintainance' | 02:08 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: neither on screen nor by voice -- pretty useless imho | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | djkrikke: If you mean the add-ons - at the moment - most of the non-nokia software is alpha. | 02:08 |
| nonversation | =/ im also reading that the N900 has 32gb but only 2gb can be used for apps? | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | djkrikke: It will get better. | 02:08 |
| djkrikke | I was reading about watching movies on the n900 from websites, there were literally lots of addons and scripts necessary | 02:08 |
| sejo | hmm looking for some cool apps to add, mhat are your favorite apps on the n900? | 02:08 |
| crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: no maintenance. Turn it on, browse, call, it works. | 02:08 |
| Gadgetoid | djkrikke i can download videos from bittorent on the n900 using transmission | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | But as it is basically,it works. | 02:09 |
| crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: if there are software updates, it'll tell you, and ask if you want to update. That's about as much maintenance as there is to it | 02:09 |
| Gadgetoid | and then play them with the native player | 02:09 |
| nonversation | do all debian apps work for it? or do they have to be ported? | 02:09 |
| simula_ | scripts? selecting an app from a software repository is more like it. | 02:09 |
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| nonversation | google earth? | 02:09 |
| Gadgetoid | no scripts | 02:09 |
| djkrikke | yes, does transmission just work without debian chroot etc? | 02:09 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: yes | 02:09 |
| ShadowJK | djkrikke, well, the difference is that whereas the iphone doesn't let you expand it to play formats it doesn't play out of the box, the N900 is expandable. The addons you see are people who want to play more formats. | 02:10 |
| Gadgetoid | to play video to video out whilst using irc i just did mplayer -framedrop (filename) | 02:10 |
| crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: this is a non-limited platform really, you don't need to "hack" or "break" it in order to do more stuff | 02:10 |
| woglinde | hm where is luck when I need him | 02:10 |
| crashanddie_mbp | woglinde: sleeping, probably | 02:10 |
| nonversation | will it run google earth? | 02:10 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: no | 02:10 |
| nonversation | why? | 02:10 |
| ShadowJK | Out of the box it handles avi, wmv and mp4 containers with ASP (divx, xvid) and h264 baseline codecs, aac and mp3 audio and some others I forget.. | 02:10 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: but that's because Google didn't port it to the ARM platform | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | nonversation: It is not a PC. | 02:11 |
| djkrikke | I know, but for some programs chroot is still necessary. And if your pointing at the jailbreaking of the iphone, that's indeed what I'm trying to avoid :P | 02:11 |
| nonversation | ok so it runs debian and the only apps it can use have been ported for ARM | 02:11 |
| crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: no, chroot is not necessary | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | nonversation: It will run no PC software that is supplied only in binary form, that the maker has not released a version for ARM. | 02:11 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: it's not really debian -- it's based off debian, but that's like saying that ubuntu is debian | 02:11 |
| nonversation | how well does it work as a phone? | 02:12 |
| ShadowJK | mind, my PC doesn't need any maintenance either.. | 02:12 |
| * SpeedEvil has had it for a week, and has made one call, and one text. Worked fine. | 02:12 | |
| djkrikke | what are the limitations of the base in terms of installing other applications, like for example a kde application (amarok)? | 02:12 |
| Gadgetoid | haha chroot? i dont think that means what you think it does | 02:12 |
| nonversation | I currently have an android phone, but looking at the N900 trying to decide if its worth it for me or not | 02:12 |
| crashanddie_mbp | you can place calls, through SIM or Skype (over wifi or 3G), send texts, receive texts and see them in conversations -- works | 02:12 |
| nonversation | so its fine to carry in your pocket as a normal phone | 02:13 |
| Gadgetoid | djkrikke most apps need refactored to use the n900 gui | 02:13 |
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| djkrikke | I see | 02:13 |
| crashanddie_mbp | djkrikke: in the past there have been full ports of very heavy applications (like thunderbird or KDE) -- the problem is that GUIs don't scale well, so they were barely usable | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | nonversation: Personally, I'd recommend it to anyone. | 02:13 |
| djkrikke | I understand | 02:14 |
| nonversation | what about root? | 02:14 |
| Gadgetoid | although there may be another desktop linux port to the n900 | 02:14 |
| nonversation | do you have root access? | 02:14 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nonversation: yes | 02:14 |
| KenYoung | nonversation, Yup | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | The software problem gets a lot easier if you say 'you can't use fingers, stylus only' | 02:14 |
| crashanddie_mbp | djeezus, is this noobzone? Guys, just google your questions | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Then it's more or less just a small desktop | 02:14 |
| Gadgetoid | i could kina use open office on my n810 | 02:14 |
| nonversation | speaking of stylus , do you really have to use that on the N900? | 02:14 |
| ShadowJK | my eyes need more training with the 3.5" screen. On the N810 I more or less was able to see pixels. The DPI is so much higher on the N900 though :-) | 02:14 |
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| djkrikke | lol ShadowJK | 02:14 |
| ShadowJK | well not "so much", but a bit.. | 02:15 |
| nonversation | how sensitive to touch is it compared to an android device or iphone | 02:15 |
| djkrikke | nonversation, it's resistive | 02:15 |
| KenYoung | nonversation, The stylus is very helpful in many situations. | 02:15 |
| ShadowJK | I don't use stylus on N900 | 02:15 |
| nonversation | thats good, i hate a stylus | 02:15 |
| Gadgetoid | text in xchat is stupidly smooth | 02:15 |
| ShadowJK | and I was a die-hard stylus fan.. | 02:15 |
| djkrikke | basically that means you have to "press" instead of touching it like on the iphone | 02:15 |
| KenYoung | I use the stylus a lot with the browser, to make sure I click the correct linkgs. | 02:15 |
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| ShadowJK | I just doubletap to zoom, it responds quickly enough | 02:16 |
| djkrikke | but from what I've heard and seen, the resistive screen works quite good | 02:16 |
| nonversation | does it run opera mobile? or opera? | 02:16 |
| sejo | DocScrutinizer: hmm got the extras but no gstreamer? | 02:16 |
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| ShadowJK | nonversation, no. | 02:16 |
| djkrikke | nonversation, it runs firefox | 02:16 |
| Gadgetoid | the n900 responds well to very light touch | 02:16 |
| nonversation | webkit | 02:16 |
| djkrikke | firefox mobile iirc | 02:16 |
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| ShadowJK | firefox mobile is an alternative. The default browser microb is based on the same technology as firefox, gecko. | 02:17 |
| nonversation | what about social apps, twitter, facebook , myspace, and the like | 02:17 |
| nonversation | can you run those in the background | 02:17 |
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| Gadgetoid | the screen is flush like the iphone and doesnt give like an oldschool pda | 02:17 |
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| nonversation | my previous expierences with nokia havent been so well when it comes to software support, sort of afraid to make the jump again | 02:18 |
| nonversation | like the E71 | 02:18 |
| nonversation | and N95 | 02:18 |
| KenYoung | Does anyone know how to get the N900 into portrait mode, other than with the dialer app? I'd like to have an application run in portrait mode, and I'd be happy to modify the source code to do so. | 02:19 |
| Gadgetoid | i am still waiting for my three sim to work in the n900 | 02:19 |
| nonversation | shouldn't any sim work in it? | 02:19 |
| nonversation | as long as you have the settings? | 02:19 |
| LinuxCode | Gadgetoid, needs activating ? | 02:19 |
| Gadgetoid | yes... unless its a particular three sim | 02:20 |
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| Gadgetoid | in which case there is a known bug | 02:20 |
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| nonversation | Does the N900 have a twitter app? facebook app? myspace app? | 02:20 |
| Gadgetoid | fixed but no firmware update containing it yet | 02:20 |
| ShadowJK | Basically, sim cards are smartcards. The smartcards contain applications. The "sim" application is supported, but the new application used by 3g-only cards aren't. The "sim" application can support both gsm and 3g. At the time nobody was using the new 3g only app and nokia probably didn't think anyone would. Then it turned out otherwise.. wikipedia has the messy details on sim cards :) | 02:20 |
| Gadgetoid | it has widgets but the browser suffices for actually using facebook | 02:21 |
| Gadgetoid | apps are always a compromise | 02:21 |
| Gadgetoid | the n900 will run farmville kinda | 02:21 |
| djkrikke | that's cool | 02:22 |
| djkrikke | finally something with good web browsing and flash support | 02:22 |
| Gadgetoid | wish it would run quakelive and had dual analogue | 02:22 |
| sejo | there is witter (for twitter) but doesn't wark here | 02:22 |
| nonversation | so you have on screen widgets for twitter | 02:22 |
| sejo | it's cool to kave default video out | 02:22 |
| sejo | nonversation: yeah there is a widget also | 02:23 |
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| sejo | but keeps on browsing | 02:23 |
| nonversation | facebook widgets as well? like the N97? | 02:23 |
| sejo | yes | 02:23 |
| nonversation | well that sounds good, looks like it covers most of what I use on android, except the navigation | 02:24 |
| Gadgetoid | i left my n900 downloading about 300mb from bittorrent on battery whoopsie.. seeded to 80 percent | 02:24 |
| Stskeeps | and your phone bill bankrupting you? | 02:24 |
| djkrikke | how's the battery when torrenting? | 02:24 |
| nonversation | hows the video quality? what format does it save the videos in? | 02:25 |
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| nonversation | hope its mp4 or mov , avi | 02:25 |
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| nonversation | and not 3pg | 02:25 |
| Gadgetoid | dont torrent on battery :) | 02:25 |
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| djkrikke | is it really that bad? :P | 02:25 |
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| Gadgetoid | it could probably suck down a gig without seeding | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | I would guess 2-4 hours torrenting on battery :) | 02:26 |
| nonversation | when you record video, what format is it in? | 02:26 |
| Gadgetoid | but if you plan to actually watch the video afterwards you are gonna want to do it on mains | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | nonversation, mp4 probably | 02:26 |
| ShadowJK | I haven't checked | 02:26 |
| Gadgetoid | the torrent client also has a web ui | 02:26 |
| xchatevil | flickr should have some video | 02:26 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't had a nokia phone in 3 years that has used 3gp | 02:27 | |
| Gadgetoid | so you can leave your phone charging and add torrents to it from your desktop | 02:27 |
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| djkrikke | funny | 02:27 |
| nonversation | Android default video recording is in 3gp | 02:27 |
| nonversation | no other options | 02:27 |
| djkrikke | but then you'd probably download torrents on your desktop and add them from your n900? :) | 02:27 |
| nonversation | but of course they dont tell you that when they sell it to you | 02:27 |
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| nonversation | and vlc doesn't support 3gp audio | 02:28 |
| nonversation | anymore | 02:28 |
| ShadowJK | 3gp audio... you mean amr? | 02:28 |
| nonversation | yup | 02:28 |
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| nonversation | its a pain in the ass | 02:28 |
| nonversation | I think in linux you have to complile vlc from source to get it to play amr, I think they leave it out as default | 02:29 |
| ShadowJK | probably | 02:29 |
| nonversation | I could not get anything to play my 3gp videos from android in linux, or windows , or woud play without sound | 02:29 |
| ShadowJK | the amr reference implementation isn't redistributable | 02:29 |
| Gadgetoid | true djkrikke i usually ftp into my desktop from the n900 and grab what i need | 02:29 |
| nonversation | only option is a direct upload to youtube, or spend time trying to cover it | 02:29 |
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| nonversation | convert it | 02:29 |
| Gadgetoid | hmm that reminds me, need to grab my n810 and finish an ebook | 02:30 |
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| Gadgetoid | theres an account plugin to idle irc nut it cant join channels or identify with nickserv... boo | 02:31 |
| djkrikke | afraid to ask, but how's the battery life, can it handle at least 1 day? | 02:31 |
| djkrikke | I know it is in reviews | 02:32 |
| djkrikke | and there they say about "yes" | 02:32 |
| djkrikke | but when used like it should be used (ftp, irc, ..), how is it? | 02:32 |
| Gadgetoid | does for me, sits on my desk all day idling irc | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | irc on 3g is bad with lots of channels. edge lasts the day. wlan lasts longer | 02:33 |
| Xisdibik | djkrikke: i unplug it at about 7-8am, and go until after 8pm. using it for at least 3 hours of music player, and it has wifi, gps, etc on. | 02:33 |
| Gadgetoid | i am never far from power though | 02:33 |
| Xisdibik | to me the battery life is great | 02:35 |
| djkrikke | at what percentage is the battery at 8pm? | 02:36 |
| Gadgetoid | n810 is better... lack of gsm helps | 02:36 |
| Xisdibik | djkrikke: not sure, never checked the exact % | 02:36 |
| Xisdibik | below 25% for sure id say | 02:36 |
| ShadowJK | with 20 freenode irc channels and 15 other irc channels, I'm at 57% after 10 hours | 02:37 |
| djkrikke | ok thanks for that information | 02:37 |
| Xisdibik | ive never felt like i was rushing to charge the thing tho | 02:37 |
| djkrikke | right now my iphone is at 40% each day | 02:37 |
| Xisdibik | ShadowJK: on wifi or GSM/3G? | 02:37 |
| sejo | can't I add mp3 files as ringtone? | 02:37 |
| djkrikke | problem is, I take the train to my university and there's bad reception, it literally kills the battery | 02:37 |
| ShadowJK | gsm | 02:37 |
| Gadgetoid | i gave my iphone to the other half | 02:37 |
| ShadowJK | with 3g it/s at 50% in 3 hours :) | 02:38 |
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| Gadgetoid | lack of multi tasking meant i basically had to carry the iphone and n810 everywhere | 02:38 |
| ShadowJK | 3g is bad for irc | 02:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | xchat on n900 is quite OK. | 02:40 |
| ShadowJK | except that changing settings crashes | 02:41 |
| djkrikke | what I'm also wondering is, someone tried bluetooth internet tethering before? | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | It could do with kineticisation of the scrolly things, but apart from that, and the profile thing. | 02:41 |
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| Gadgetoid | apart from lack of kinetic scrolling and its hijacking the volume buttons to switch windows | 02:41 |
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| Gadgetoid | cant even easily reach the volume keys with the keyboard open | 02:42 |
| KenYoung | On my N900, I am unable to set the execute permission bit of any file stored on the microSD card. Does anyone know how that can be fixed? | 02:42 |
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| Gadgetoid | no ken | 02:43 |
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| Gadgetoid | unless you want to reformat it | 02:43 |
| crashanddie_mbp | KenYoung: it's because the fat partition is mounted with the nosuid flag or something | 02:43 |
| KenYoung | Gadgetoid, I'm willing to reformat. | 02:43 |
| Stskeeps | noexec | 02:43 |
| crashanddie_mbp | or noexec | 02:43 |
| Stskeeps | KenYoung: internal or external? | 02:43 |
| Gadgetoid | fat cant even support exec/perms surely | 02:43 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Gadgetoid: everything is set as exec on fat | 02:43 |
| Gadgetoid | mmmm .... secure | 02:44 |
| crashanddie_mbp | hence the noexec flag | 02:44 |
| Gadgetoid | haha | 02:44 |
| Gadgetoid | mount -o remount,exec ftw | 02:44 |
| KenYoung | Stskeeps, There's only one microSD slot on the N900, isn't there? | 02:44 |
| crashanddie_mbp | KenYoung: actually there's 2 | 02:44 |
| Gadgetoid | dunno what device the sd is though | 02:44 |
| Stskeeps | KenYoung: well, the internal storage is 'technically' a sd, so wasn't sure what you meant. just format it ext2/ext3 | 02:45 |
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| Stskeeps | KenYoung: and be happy | 02:45 |
| Stskeeps | P | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone figured out what pins under the battery might be? | 02:45 |
| crashanddie_mbp | SpeedEvil: i2c for sure | 02:45 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: serial, most likely. | 02:45 |
| ShadowJK | serial probably | 02:45 |
| crashanddie_mbp | there's two different set of pins | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie_mbp: yeah. I was wondering if anyone had actually worked it out - wondering about gluing stuff on. | 02:45 |
| crashanddie_mbp | one which only has 2 pins, and another with 8 or 6 | 02:45 |
| KenYoung | Stskeeps, Thanks, I will. | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | 8/6 sounds like a candidate for jtag | 02:46 |
| crashanddie_mbp | indeed | 02:46 |
| crashanddie_mbp | i2c + jtag would make it very interesting | 02:46 |
| Gadgetoid | thats where someone will hack in a digital compass haha | 02:46 |
| * sejo has sounds video and now looking for themes :p | 02:47 | |
| crashanddie_mbp | can we all be proper geeks, and just call it by its real name? A magnetometer | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.ssec.honeywell.com/magnetic/datasheets/HMC5843.pdf | 02:47 |
| Gadgetoid | magnetometerman | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I2C, teeny, not too spendy | 02:47 |
| Stskeeps | how many pins does i2c typically require? :P | 02:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | 2 | 02:48 |
| Gadgetoid | just rig an ordinary compass under the n900 and use the camera to read it | 02:48 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, 2 serials and one jtag sounds sane.. but wtf is the last one | 02:48 |
| crashanddie_mbp | buttplug adapter | 02:49 |
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| Stskeeps | Gadgetoid: not an entirely bad idea :P | 02:49 |
| crashanddie_mbp | gives a whole new meaning to "Nokia: Connecting People: | 02:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | 6 is the absolute minimum for jtag. | 02:50 |
| Gadgetoid | it would kinda work stskeeps... if you held it level | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | gnd/and 5 other signals | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I2C also loves GND | 02:50 |
| fernando__ | er, I don't know if this is the right place, but... tablet-encode is quitting with a "Audio LAVC, couldn't find encoder for codec mp3." error | 02:51 |
| fernando__ | should I... reinstall mencoder or something? | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | most likely the pins under bat aren't suitable for extensions nayway | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's all fab calib and QA for jigmount | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | JTAG, and maybe modem-tty | 02:52 |
| fernando__ | ah never mind | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Or speaker/earpiece etc, something they *need* to stick a DVM to | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - probably not plausible. | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | You could in principle probably add it easily. | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Parallel the accel | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you find the pads to slder a cable to | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | worst case, pull the chip | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeek | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:54 |
| Macer | hm | 02:54 |
| Macer | in maemo4 why doesn't this thing get my imap folders? | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | how about USB hub? | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | (and yes, I'm slightly reluctant to solder) | 02:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I haven't gotten round to it - I found stuff I'll need to test more today. | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah that one | 02:55 |
| sejo | for maemo 5 (n900) mhat repo's should I set? fremantle | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I actually lost interest for now | 02:56 |
| sejo | diablo? | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizerI haven't. | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Just too much annoying random crap, and getting up the energy | 02:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: if you disassembe the critter, don't forget to post me highres flatbed scans | 02:57 |
| Macer | haha | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I can read all the chip names ;-) | 02:57 |
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| Macer | and make the cheap chinese knockoff? | 02:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: unfortunately, there is absolutely no way realistically I can afford to take it apart. If I break it, I will not be getting another. | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and nota bene: Nokia in their service manual marks can lids as "use new one, discard old part after removing" - well they do same for screws even o.O | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: same here ;-D | 02:58 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | DocScrutinizer: which service manual? | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | for whatever it's worth: N810 "" PROD_TEST_PATTERN \n UART3(1:0) \n SLEEPCLK_REQ_1V8 \n SLEEPCLK_REQ_2V8 \n SCK "" | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie_mbp: ^^ | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie_mbp: the answer ;-) | 03:04 |
| crashanddie_mbp | oh, n810 one, old | 03:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.mediafire.com/?ndmjylkj4wk | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | n900 service manual | 03:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how THE HECK download it? | 03:08 |
| jebba | a fkn .rar? | 03:08 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.a2phone.com/component/option,com_phocadownload/Itemid,15/id,324/view,category/ | 03:09 |
| jebba | have to log in to download.... | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - it's a pay site | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | To access the private area of this site, please log in. :-(((( | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | GRRRRRRRRR | 03:11 |
| jebba | it's real hard to distribute .pdfs on the internet, i know. | 03:11 |
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| user___ | sitting in da pub having a few | 03:21 |
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| user___ | crap | 03:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | havin a few crap - oh noes! | 03:26 |
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| DangerMaus | hehe | 03:27 |
| DangerMaus | gotta get an irssi config going here DocScrutinizer | 03:27 |
| DangerMaus | to stop signing on as user | 03:28 |
| ali1234 | wow, i just had a PROPER crash | 03:28 |
| ali1234 | while playing back a video i just recorded | 03:28 |
| ali1234 | n900 did an instant-reset | 03:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oooops | 03:30 |
| djkrikke | nice one ali1234 | 03:33 |
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| djkrikke | so how long have you people got the n900 already? In Belgium, it will be for sale on 11 dec | 03:34 |
| ali1234 | i had it since the summit - only one crash in all that time, not too bad | 03:34 |
| * ShadowJK has had it since 27th | 03:34 | |
| ShadowJK | (november) | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | since 30. | 03:35 |
| * w00t got his on the uh.. 2nd | 03:35 | |
| DangerMa1s | 1st | 03:35 |
| johnx | since oct 9th or so I guess | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yayaya | 03:35 |
| DangerMa1s | hahaha | 03:35 |
| jebba | just this week.... | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: culd you check the bootreason please? | 03:37 |
| jebba | maemo-optify-buildpackage hmm. That didn't seem to optify anything. I ran it like this `maemo-optify-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc` hints? | 03:38 |
| djkrikke | what was your previous phone ShadowJK? | 03:38 |
| ali1234 | DocScrutinizer sure, one second | 03:38 |
| ShadowJK | djkrikke, Nokia E75, before that Nokia E70, before that Nokia 6820, before that Siemens CF-62, before that Nokia 3220 | 03:38 |
| djkrikke | wow :) | 03:38 |
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| ShadowJK | Oh wait, I forgot the Siemens M35 before CF-62 | 03:38 |
| ali1234 | DocScrutinizer [114667.280273] Bootup reason: sw_rst | 03:38 |
| djkrikke | so you have been "into nokia" for a while | 03:39 |
| djkrikke | brb | 03:39 |
| DangerMa1s | 03:39 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: thnks (btw what's been the friggin name of the node to readout) | 03:39 |
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| w00t | heh | 03:39 |
| ali1234 | DocScrutinizer: eh? | 03:40 |
| ShadowJK | Well after my first nokia died a strange death, I was a siemens user for two models. Siemens has more serious problems with their phones, they all died | 03:40 |
| w00t | I had a HTC universal previously | 03:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | /proc/boot_reason or something | 03:40 |
| w00t | that was a godly phone | 03:40 |
| ali1234 | i did dmesg | grep reason | 03:40 |
| w00t | but very very bad in terms of hw problems. | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: aah you got it from a log. There's been a /sys node on N810 at least | 03:40 |
| ali1234 | obviously that only works if you're quick | 03:40 |
| ShadowJK | the first nokia, and the two siemens are dead, but the other phones still live. E70 is semi-dead, the joystick is kinda dodgy. | 03:40 |
| ali1234 | /proc/bootreason | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | proc | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks :-S | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ali1234: is log and /proc/bootreason consistent? | 03:41 |
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| ali1234 | yes, they both say sw_rst | 03:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, maybe a heavy glitch in graphics accel driver | 03:42 |
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| ali1234 | looked like that to me, the video was very choppy before it crashed | 03:42 |
| ali1234 | i also had two ssh connections running, one of which was pinging my router, to keep the wifi alive | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, you got ideas | 03:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, I have reboots on N810 frequently. But always watchdog. Guess it's related to xchat logging | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | as it's always doing a double reboot, I conclude that's fsck due to file writing activity while watchdog shutdown | 03:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | funny thing is the touchpanel obviously estends 2..3mm beyond the right (bottom) of the display :-P | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | on N900 | 03:53 |
| ali1234 | they should have made it extend further, i think. for scrolling | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 03:53 |
| ali1234 | edge scrolling beats that multitouch crap any day | 03:54 |
| ali1234 | i like to see what i'm scrolling past | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ack | 03:54 |
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| ShadowJK | it extends on all sides I think | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | definitely not | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | on right side you get click event that seem to *be* outside of screen | 03:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: browser uses that | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ooh | 03:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | for the interaction mode and the back gesture | 03:57 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: wtf are you doing still awake ;-) | 03:57 |
| timeless_mbp | watching SG1 | 03:58 |
| w00t | ah | 03:58 |
| w00t | valid reason | 03:58 |
| w00t | my favourite series | 03:58 |
| w00t | seen any of universe? | 03:58 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly, i don't think it shows in .fi yet | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | timeless, I seem not to get it with the gesture part | 03:59 |
| w00t | ..wait, there's a back gesture | 04:00 |
| * w00t missed that | 04:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | timeless, could you ellaborate or toss pointer for rtfm? ;-) | 04:00 |
| timeless_mbp | start offscreen right and slide left | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ok | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thanks | 04:01 |
| timeless_mbp | at least, it should work.. | 04:01 |
| timeless_mbp | the other thing is start from offscreen (bottom) left and slide right | 04:01 |
| timeless_mbp | that'll give you an indicator | 04:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | for xchat I can click to the *right* of scroll slider | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | for browser this seems to not apply | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (clicks *outside* of screen thst is) | 04:03 |
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| jebba | i swear at one point i was able to set something that gave my location status via jabber and I could pick the resolution: country, city, neighborhood, street or somesuch. I can't find it now. Anyone? | 04:07 |
| w00t | click status area | 04:07 |
| w00t | click availability | 04:07 |
| w00t | click 'my location' | 04:08 |
| w00t | enjoy | 04:08 |
| * timeless_mbp watches as the tauri+tokra drop a stargate (dialing into a black hole) into a sun | 04:10 | |
| w00t | heh | 04:10 |
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| w00t | i remember that ep | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Recent book I read had a similar idea. | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wohoohoo | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | but using the jets from a pulsar as a source | 04:11 |
| timeless_mbp | anything wrong? | 04:11 |
| timeless_mbp | nope. i've just never blown up a star before | 04:11 |
| djkrikke | someone tried podcasts on the nokia n900 yet? | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | who was teleporting a small bit of nearby sun into enemies starship? :-o | 04:12 |
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| w00t | timeless_mbp: favourite SG:1 member, go | 04:12 |
| w00t | djkrikke: I'm sure that someone would have by now, yes | 04:12 |
| w00t | djkrikke: do you have a specific question? | 04:12 |
| djkrikke | yes, is it possible to download podcasts over wifi and save them and listen to them afterwards? | 04:13 |
| fnordianslippers | use gpodder | 04:14 |
| djkrikke | allright | 04:14 |
| djkrikke | thanks for the suggestion | 04:14 |
| AakashPatel | Can we release closed source apps in garage and hopefully eventually to the extra's repo and stuff? | 04:14 |
| fnordianslippers | np | 04:14 |
| derf | Into extras, yes, I believe so. | 04:14 |
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| fsfsfs | Hi all | 04:14 |
| derf | I'm not sure why you would put something closed-source on garage. | 04:15 |
| AakashPatel | well how about in -extra's | 04:15 |
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| AakashPatel | or devel or whatever | 04:15 |
| derf | 21:14:48 < derf> Into extras, yes, I believe so. | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ovi | 04:15 |
| AakashPatel | oh | 04:15 |
| AakashPatel | woops missed that | 04:15 |
| jebba | w00t: at the risk of uh, well, being foolish...where is "status area" (!) | 04:15 |
| derf | There's a non-free section. | 04:16 |
| w00t | jebba: where the wifi icon, carrier text is, etc | 04:16 |
| w00t | near the switcher button top left | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | jebba: commonly known as systray, I guess | 04:16 |
| w00t | ^ | 04:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I don't get any interesting settings next to online status though | 04:17 |
| w00t | really? | 04:17 |
| w00t | did you click it? | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure - lol | 04:17 |
| w00t | I have, top downwards, two rows | 04:17 |
| w00t | (well, more after, but it's unimportant) | 04:17 |
| w00t | online | busy | offline (buttons) | 04:18 |
| w00t | [Status text input] [My location button] | 04:18 |
| djkrikke | the AlmostTI Graphing Calc Emulator looks so fun :° | 04:18 |
| jebba | hahah. ok i only looked htere 10 times, must be getting tired hahah | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | [online [offline] \n sip:myaccount \n Accounts | 04:18 |
| w00t | DocScrutinizer: *weird*. | 04:18 |
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| ShadowJK | I don't get the availability button either, but then I don't have any accounts entered that support that kind of stuff | 04:19 |
| w00t | hmm | 04:19 |
| w00t | perhaps that is it | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | and right there is [new status] \n [store] | 04:19 |
| ShadowJK | msn, skype, jabber, etc | 04:19 |
| w00t | I have msn, skype, ovi, google chat | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's it | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ovi especially I guess | 04:20 |
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| w00t | it was there before ovi, I only set that up today | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | notifier: "Registered at Ovi of Nokia: joerg900 \n Chat, foo, and bla activated" | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, now it's there | 04:22 |
| AakashPatel | how do you swtich into the armel target in scratchbox? | 04:22 |
| * w00t adds you for fun and profit | 04:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer | go ahead ;-D | 04:23 |
| * ShadowJK wonders if sb_menu does stuff | 04:23 | |
| AakashPatel | oh yeah | 04:24 |
| AakashPatel | thanks | 04:24 |
| ShadowJK | and I don't even use that hting.. | 04:24 |
| AakashPatel | lol i havent used scratchbox in a while | 04:25 |
| w00t | DocScrutinizer: did that work? | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr, what? | 04:27 |
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| w00t | DocScrutinizer: tried adding you | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | went unnoticed | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | nooooow | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | w00t: ok, for this *one* time :-DDD | 04:29 |
| w00t | ah :-D | 04:29 |
| * w00t hugs his n900 | 04:29 | |
| * kurtan kills w00t and steals the n900 | 04:30 | |
| w00t | kurtan: not got yours yet? | 04:30 |
| * kurtan has no ethics | 04:30 | |
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| kurtan | no.. :( | 04:30 |
| ShadowJK | sweden has the hutchinson 3g disease I think :) | 04:30 |
| w00t | kurtan: where are you? | 04:30 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders which friggin "app" (I start to hate the word) to use to see any detail about w00t | 04:30 | |
| w00t | DocScrutinizer: contacts | 04:30 |
| timeless_mbp | wow, my recording timing sucked | 04:30 |
| kurtan | hopefully nokia will start delivery this week | 04:30 |
| w00t | (address book icon) | 04:31 |
| kurtan | w00t: sweden | 04:31 |
| w00t | kurtan: ...ah | 04:31 |
| timeless_mbp | it got everything until they try to escape the supernova | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | he | 04:31 |
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| w00t | timeless_mbp: :-/ | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | there appeared a W00the@ovi.com automagically XD | 04:31 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, well, it's mainstream scifi. They all make it, and the world/universe is saved for now. | 04:32 |
| ShadowJK | oh wait, was that the ep where that wasn't true? I can't remember :-( | 04:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm currently reading a book | 04:33 |
| timeless_mbp | wherever every couple of chapters someone dies | 04:33 |
| w00t | DocScrutinizer: when did you get yours? ;) | 04:33 |
| w00t | ah | 04:33 |
| w00t | nvm | 04:34 |
| w00t | :P | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | One day, we will have technology that enables us to, like, download stuff from start to end, instead of sitting with a stopwatch surrounded by alarms trying to catch the whims of broadcasters | 04:34 |
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| w00t | ShadowJK: :P | 04:35 |
| djkrikke | I see lots of users having troubles using vnc viewer on the n900, is this really working yet? | 04:37 |
| * ShadowJK hopes it wont involve adobe, javascript or theora | 04:37 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | what's wrong with theora? | 04:41 |
| w00t | ** religious war alert ** | 04:42 |
| w00t | :p | 04:42 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ducks | 04:42 | |
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| Elerion | Hi | 04:43 |
| kevloral | djkrikke: I have tried to use it, but it doesn't work for me. I can see in my firewall logs that some connection packets are arriving at my computer, but the client doesn't connect. | 04:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fix Ur firewall settings? | 04:45 |
| kevloral | DocScrutinizer: nope, that's not the problem. | 04:45 |
| Elerion | I got a preproduction N900 for a test. Are there any diferences between this and production model? (besides N900 logo on production ones) | 04:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how could anybody tell? :-P | 04:46 |
| djkrikke | Elerion, how do you get a preproduction device? | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | send me your preprod device and I'll compare them happily | 04:46 |
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| Elerion | I work for telecom company and we usualy get all kinds of nice things. :-) | 04:47 |
| LinuxCode | djkrikke, it fell off a production line | 04:47 |
| djkrikke | lol :P | 04:47 |
| LinuxCode | close! | 04:47 |
| djkrikke | just curious :) | 04:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Elerion: there can be minor variations in the hardware | 04:47 |
| timeless_mbp | but generally, they're roughly equivalent | 04:47 |
| timeless_mbp | yours might not have a CE stamp | 04:47 |
| LinuxCode | it fell off a production line and and a Nokia manager took it and shipped it | 04:48 |
| timeless_mbp | which might technically cause issues if you cross international borders | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeew | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | no CE | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | what a pity | 04:48 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 04:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't see his device | 04:48 |
| djkrikke | CE stamp? | 04:48 |
| LinuxCode | yah | 04:48 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, and it probably says "Not for resale" | 04:48 |
| LinuxCode | Euopean COmmunity | 04:48 |
| timeless_mbp | perhaps even "property of nokia" | 04:48 |
| djkrikke | ow | 04:48 |
| LinuxCode | its the logo used for approval of electronic devices in the EU | 04:49 |
| LinuxCode | without it, you cant sell it here | 04:49 |
| djkrikke | hmm | 04:49 |
| kevloral | LinuxCode: note really. It stands for Conformité Européene | 04:49 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.retlif.com/documents/fcc_international.html | 04:49 |
| kevloral | s/note/not | 04:49 |
| LinuxCode | kevloral, thanks for clarifixation | 04:49 |
| LinuxCode | clarification | 04:50 |
| * LinuxCode was never interested enough to really find out what it stands for | 04:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer | so take an Edding marker and write (CE) on it. It's basically what Nokia does as well | 04:50 |
| LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer, loool | 04:50 |
| LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer, I am sure nobody will notice | 04:50 |
| ShadowJK | self-certified :) | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 04:51 |
| Elerion | It's HWID 2001, Build F4. (No CE mark) I'm asking because camera quality is quite bad. And i'm hoping it was improved in production model. | 04:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that why I say. That's what Nokia does | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Each el-cheapo mainland china crap has CE printed on it, and it's not even fraud | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | it simply says "we think it's ok" | 04:52 |
| LinuxCode | DocScrutinizer, tell customs that, when they take it and scrunch it up | 04:53 |
| ShadowJK | well | 04:53 |
| ShadowJK | CE doesnt say much about whether something has good build quality or not, or even if it works | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I guess CE isn't required at any customs action for passengers | 04:54 |
| LinuxCode | ShadowJK, CE means it is safety tested | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOOO | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly NOT | 04:54 |
| ShadowJK | ce pretty much only covers not catching fire when you plug it in, and no electrocuting you wif you touch it | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | it really is self-certified by manuf - "we think it's ok" | 04:54 |
| ShadowJK | manufacturers are supposed to test it themselves. there's nobody checking whether that is the case | 04:55 |
| AakashPatel | what C++ socket library does maemo 5 offer? | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 04:55 |
| timeless_mbp | AakashPatel: why should we? | 04:55 |
| timeless_mbp | (answer: necko) | 04:55 |
| LinuxCode | ShadowJK, trading standards does | 04:56 |
| woglinde | AakashPatel boost | 04:56 |
| LinuxCode | in each EU country | 04:56 |
| AakashPatel | both? | 04:56 |
| timeless_mbp | woglinde: is boost actually included? | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeek bost | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | boost even, bah | 04:56 |
| woglinde | hm | 04:57 |
| woglinde | my bad | 04:57 |
| woglinde | thought there was boost socket too | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | well are you sure boost will fit on the 32GB of storage ? ;-P | 04:57 |
| ShadowJK | doubtful | 04:57 |
| woglinde | sure | 04:58 |
| ShadowJK | and it has to fit in 256meg along with the rest of the system | 04:58 |
| AakashPatel | neckoooo | 04:58 |
| AakashPatel | funny name | 04:58 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 04:58 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders what qt will bring to us | 05:00 | |
| jebba900 | woglinde any luck with glu etc? | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, jebba900?!?!! | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 05:01 |
| woglinde | jebba hm trying to compile glew now | 05:02 |
| woglinde | but will not work I guess | 05:02 |
| jebba900 | sittin on couch without tab nick completion heh | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | docscrutinizer900 was imply too long ;) | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | xchat? | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba900, xchat? | 05:03 |
| AakashPatel | its hard to find any networking examples in C++ :/ | 05:04 |
| jebba900 | xchut | 05:04 |
| woglinde | AakashPatel look at qt | 05:04 |
| yuizy | you can always use qt | 05:04 |
| AakashPatel | :0 | 05:04 |
| AakashPatel | I'm tryin to think of how i will set up this kind of project | 05:05 |
| AakashPatel | I have to use protobuf's | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba900, go to settings advanced kbd-shortcuts | 05:06 |
| jebba900 | crashanddie_mbp, no? | 05:07 |
| jebba900 | wow | 05:07 |
| AakashPatel | Are there any doc pages to developing in QT on maemo? | 05:07 |
| jebba900 | i typed crash and it completed for me magically somehoww without tab so its there somewhere! | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's auto nick expand | 05:08 |
| AakashPatel | Hm, maemo 5 alreayd has all the stuff required to run qt linux apps? | 05:08 |
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| woglinde | diablo had | 05:09 |
| AakashPatel | ah, thats interesting | 05:09 |
| AakashPatel | why are the boasting about maemo 6 on the page? | 05:09 |
| woglinde | hm? | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba900, works only owhen autocomplete in kbd is disabled? | 05:09 |
| woglinde | qt will only be main widget set with maemo6 | 05:09 |
| woglinde | for now its gtk | 05:09 |
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| woglinde | as in earlier versions too | 05:10 |
| woglinde | okay sleep now | 05:10 |
| AakashPatel | ah, so qt is jsut an option to use on maemo5? | 05:10 |
| AakashPatel | okay, night :) | 05:10 |
| woglinde | maybee I have to steel at clutter | 05:10 |
| woglinde | right | 05:10 |
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| dick-richardson | how do you disable the shutter sound in fremantle? | 05:10 |
| jebba900 | doc i cant do it again however i did it | 05:10 |
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| * jaem_ moos | 05:11 | |
| AakashPatel | How the heck would I compile a QT app for armel? | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba900, go to settings advanced kbd-shortcuts | 05:11 |
| jaem_ | did someone poke me a little while back? | 05:11 |
| jaem_ | I got a blinky light, but the scrollback missed it :/ | 05:11 |
| KenYoung | Is there a way to get the N900 camera to save images with no compression at all? | 05:11 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, Scratchbox, as normal - I do it all the time | 05:11 |
| AakashPatel | Does the default GUI sdk isntaller install all the frameworks and stuff? | 05:12 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, there are qt 4.6 packages in extras-devel | 05:12 |
| jaem_ | however, for some silly reason, qmake is compiled for i386 | 05:12 |
| jaem_ | I'm just going to shower, but I can send you a proper qmake package in a few minutes | 05:12 |
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| jaem_ | brb | 05:12 |
| AakashPatel | okay | 05:13 |
| AakashPatel | thanks | 05:13 |
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| jaem_ | AakashPatel, in the mean time, add extras-devel to your sbox source.list, and install all the libqt4-maemo5-* packages | 05:13 |
| AakashPatel | okay | 05:14 |
| AakashPatel | in the armel target | 05:14 |
| AakashPatel | or the x86 | 05:14 |
| AakashPatel | eh in the armel...stupid question | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jebba900, I just changed autocompletion in xchat to shift-right | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | even better than what I had before | 05:18 |
| jebba900 | DocScrutinizer51, got it. ctrl-right is decent | 05:18 |
| jebba900 | thx | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's what I had before | 05:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I like the skip word default function though | 05:19 |
| Elerion | Limitation for only one APN in N900 settings... is there a way around it? | 05:20 |
| jebba900 | APN? | 05:20 |
| Elerion | packet connection | 05:20 |
| AakashPatel | erm wtf | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | which limitation?? | 05:21 |
| jebba900 | wtf packet connection. bluetooth? | 05:21 |
| AakashPatel | what do i add in my sources.list for extras-devel? | 05:21 |
| Elerion | No. GPRS. you can't add more then one. | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aaah | 05:21 |
| jebba900 | wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel iirc | 05:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 checks PC connectivity manager | 05:22 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | nah, nevermind | 05:23 |
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| derf | Someday I would like to commit to garage and not have it take an hour. | 05:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Elerion, actually thereseems to be no (standard) way to change *0" on the fly | 05:29 |
| Elerion | What's the another way, can I add it manually somewhere? | 05:29 |
| AakashPatel | is it normal for when tyring to boot emulator (xephyr + scratchbox) in armel mode for it to shit its pants? | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | s/*0"/APN/ | 05:30 |
| derf | AakashPatel: Apprently. | 05:31 |
| derf | *Apparently. | 05:31 |
| AakashPatel | erm | 05:31 |
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| derf | It worked okay for prior release, but not maemo5. | 05:31 |
| AakashPatel | that's gonna be a problem | 05:31 |
| derf | *releases | 05:31 |
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| derf | I can't type tonight. | 05:31 |
| AakashPatel | Lol | 05:31 |
| Elerion | D: s/*0"/APN/ doesn't say much to me. | 05:32 |
| AakashPatel | So I guess to test my app I'll have to copy it over to the device and run it | 05:32 |
| jebba900 | AakashPatel, croaks for me.... | 05:33 |
| * fireun is having fun after installing x11vnc | 05:33 | |
| derf | AakashPatel: That's what everyone else does. | 05:33 |
| derf | Be happy you don't have to put it on an SD card with a USB adapter and then shove the card under the battery and reboot the device. | 05:34 |
| derf | Which is what real embedded developers do. | 05:34 |
| AakashPatel | Yeah I know :/ | 05:34 |
| AakashPatel | I used to mess with ARM dev boards | 05:34 |
| derf | Then this should refreshingly easy! | 05:35 |
| AakashPatel | Lol | 05:35 |
| derf | be | 05:35 |
| AakashPatel | Is it possible to download the factory images that come with the N900? | 05:35 |
| derf | Yes. | 05:35 |
| AakashPatel | Do you have a link? I searched but couldnt find it | 05:35 |
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| derf | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware | 05:36 |
| derf | I've had this thing two whole days without having to flash it, which I think is a record for me and Maemo devices. | 05:37 |
| AakashPatel | Hm, "root" command to get root shel? | 05:37 |
| luke-jr | sudo, duh? | 05:38 |
| AakashPatel | :P passwardz? | 05:38 |
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| luke-jr | "nokiasucks" | 05:39 |
| AakashPatel | reasonable | 05:39 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 05:39 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 05:39 |
| AakashPatel | what the fuck | 05:40 |
| AakashPatel | "unable to uninstall rootsh | 05:40 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, where are you installing it? | 05:40 |
| AakashPatel | i was tryin to uninstall rootsh from the device lol | 05:41 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, package will be up momentarily | 05:41 |
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| AakashPatel | what do you meant | 05:41 |
| AakashPatel | mean* | 05:41 |
| luke-jr | wait | 05:42 |
| luke-jr | did that password actually work??\ | 05:42 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, I'm uploading the correctly-built libqt4-maemo5-dev package for you | 05:42 |
| AakashPatel | Ah | 05:42 |
| jaem_ | not sure what's up with the original one | 05:42 |
| AakashPatel | jaem_, what do i add to sources.list? | 05:42 |
| jaem_ | it actually may have been fixed since I checked, for all I know, but I couldn't contact the maintainer | 05:42 |
| jaem_ | one sec | 05:42 |
| AakashPatel | I've tried adding a buncha shit but it comes back 404 | 05:42 |
| AakashPatel | thanks | 05:42 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, this line | 05:42 |
| jaem_ | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel fremantle free | 05:43 |
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| jaem_ | and the same with a deb-src prefix if you want source packages as well | 05:43 |
| jaem_ | be aware that that repo is very unstable, and you'd be advised to comment out the line once you have the qt packages installed | 05:43 |
| AakashPatel | i wonder why the hell i cant unisntall rootsh | 05:43 |
| AakashPatel | okay | 05:43 |
| AakashPatel | i will | 05:43 |
| jaem_ | alternatively, you can use the qt 4.5 packages from extras, but they aren't modified to work with Maemo, and won't be | 05:44 |
| AakashPatel | is there a way to control the phone shell from the computer? | 05:44 |
| AakashPatel | like 'adb' on android? | 05:44 |
| jaem_ | yep - just install the openssh-server package | 05:44 |
| AakashPatel | ah | 05:45 |
| jaem_ | if you know your phone's IP, you could even access it remotely if you lose it | 05:45 |
| jaem_ | say, to delete sensitive files | 05:45 |
| AakashPatel | cuz i dont wanna mess with scratchbox shit lol | 05:45 |
| jaem_ | or to install text-to-speech and yell for help :P | 05:45 |
| AakashPatel | haha | 05:45 |
| jaem_ | well, you'll have to use sbox for development | 05:45 |
| AakashPatel | finee | 05:45 |
| jaem_ | s/have to/would be strongly advised to/ | 05:45 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 05:45 |
| AakashPatel | what packages was i supposed to install? | 05:46 |
| jebba900 | so how does one hit F1 etc in terminal? | 05:46 |
| jaem_ | do an apt-cache search libqt4-maemo5 | 05:46 |
| jaem_ | the packages are split into modules | 05:46 |
| jaem_ | you'll want all of them, probably | 05:46 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, you'll also need to install this overtop afterward: http://adrestia.creativemisconfiguration.com/files/ffejery/maemo/qt/libqt4-maemo5-dev_4.6.0~git20091119-0maemo1_armel.deb | 05:47 |
| jaem_ | that's the correct build | 05:47 |
| jaem_ | just use dpkg -i | 05:47 |
| AakashPatel | D: | 05:48 |
| AakashPatel | broken dependencies | 05:48 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, message? | 05:48 |
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| AakashPatel | hold on | 05:48 |
| AakashPatel | http://pastebin.com/m383a8df3 | 05:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | jebba: seems there's no simple way. for mc the plain numbers do | 05:49 |
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| jaem_ | AakashPatel, :S | 05:49 |
| jaem_ | version mismatch | 05:49 |
| jaem_ | um... | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | jebba900: or you may try to hit the generated esc sequence | 05:49 |
| jaem_ | you could always build it yourself, and make sure you get it all righ | 05:49 |
| jaem_ | but that may take a while, depending on our machine | 05:50 |
| jaem_ | it is fully automated, though | 05:50 |
| * fireun wishes there was a nokia exchange program for n770s, wants maemo5 | 05:50 | |
| jaem_ | oh wait | 05:50 |
| jaem_ | never mind, I think I know | 05:50 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, did you install my package first? | 05:50 |
| AakashPatel | nope | 05:50 |
| jaem_ | odd | 05:50 |
| jaem_ | hmm | 05:50 |
| jaem_ | let me check something | 05:50 |
| AakashPatel | okay | 05:50 |
| AakashPatel | OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11 is newer than 1.2009.42-11.002 right? | 05:51 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, I'm updating my sbox packages - let me see if I can figure this out | 05:52 |
| AakashPatel | okay | 05:52 |
| AakashPatel | thaks | 05:52 |
| AakashPatel | thanks | 05:53 |
| jaem_ | it looks like the packaging may be in flux a bit - hardly surprising given its pre-release status | 05:53 |
| jaem_ | let's see if this works... | 05:53 |
| jebba900 | DocScrutinizer, this in htop... | 05:54 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, is your sbox install up-to-date? | 05:54 |
| AakashPatel | i did it like...2 days ago | 05:55 |
| jaem_ | hmm | 05:55 |
| fireun | anyone use x11vnc? not sure how to keep the background lit when there's mouse or keyboard input, keeps going dark too soon. | 05:55 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, do you mind running an upgrade, just to humour me? | 05:55 |
| AakashPatel | how do i? | 05:56 |
| jaem_ | apt-get update | 05:56 |
| AakashPatel | k | 05:56 |
| jaem_ | fakeroot apt-get upgrade | 05:56 |
| jaem_ | if it says packages have been held back, pastebin it to me | 05:56 |
| jebba900 | DocScrutinizer, ah cool in htop you can just tap them | 05:56 |
| AakashPatel | libacl1 libattr1 linux-kernel-headers maemo-version maemo-version-dev mini-rc perl | 05:56 |
| AakashPatel | perl-base perl-modules | 05:56 |
| AakashPatel | it upgraded those | 05:56 |
| jaem_ | okay | 05:57 |
| jaem_ | run fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade | 05:57 |
| AakashPatel | bsdutils libblkid1 mount | 05:57 |
| AakashPatel | those are being upgraded now | 05:57 |
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| AakashPatel | ok | 05:58 |
| AakashPatel | done | 05:58 |
| jaem_ | try installing just libqt4-maemo5-dev now | 05:58 |
| crashanddie_mbp | jebba900: ? | 05:59 |
| AakashPatel | installing | 05:59 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, is it pulling a bunch of dependencies with it? | 05:59 |
| AakashPatel | yeah | 05:59 |
| jaem_ | all the qt packages, more or less? | 05:59 |
| AakashPatel | yep | 05:59 |
| jebba900 | crashanddie_mbp, if you are looking at scrollback igore. i typed crash and accidentally got nick completion | 05:59 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, :) okay - you should be good, then | 06:00 |
| jaem_ | you'll need to add Qt's bin path (in /opt) to your PATH, to get access to qmake and friends | 06:00 |
| jaem_ | and also FYI, unless things have changed, it doesn't build all the dbus command line tools - if you need them, you can build them from the source packages (just tweak the debian/rules file a bit) | 06:01 |
| jaem_ | I have to run, but I hope that works for you | 06:01 |
| jaem_ | cheers | 06:01 |
| derf | svn: Server sent unexpected return value (405 Method Not Allowed) in response to MKCOL request for '/svn/gjiten/!svn/wrk/70b05d26-20c1-473c-929c-2f31d5408b65/www/dists/fremantle/user/binary-armel' | 06:01 |
| AakashPatel | thanks man | 06:01 |
| derf | Garage seems busted. | 06:01 |
| AakashPatel | now back to my version question | 06:01 |
| AakashPatel | Is OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11 is newer than 1.2009.42-11.002? | 06:02 |
| AakashPatel | If you make your app in Qt | 06:10 |
| AakashPatel | How would the GUI look? | 06:10 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, on Maemo5, it will be themed like a Maemo app | 06:11 |
| jaem_ | as much as it can, automatically | 06:11 |
| crashanddie_mbp | jebba900: fair enough | 06:11 |
| jaem_ | if it's a stock desktop Qt app, though, you'll need to modify the UI a bit, at least | 06:11 |
| AakashPatel | So would i just use the standard Qt GUI stuff? | 06:11 |
| jaem_ | and you may want to redo it to make it more suited for a mobile device | 06:11 |
| jaem_ | but yes | 06:11 |
| jaem_ | standard Qt will work fine out of the box | 06:11 |
| AakashPatel | what about notifications? | 06:11 |
| jaem_ | for some values of fine :P | 06:11 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, not sure | 06:12 |
| AakashPatel | Like the LED and stuff | 06:12 |
| jaem_ | oh, that | 06:12 |
| jaem_ | that's all DBus stuff | 06:12 |
| jaem_ | well, the LED and the vibe, anyway | 06:12 |
| AakashPatel | Eh so its still in C++ | 06:12 |
| jaem_ | search it up on mxr.maemo.org for the DBus PI | 06:12 |
| jaem_ | no, it's DBus | 06:12 |
| AakashPatel | i mean to interface with it? | 06:12 |
| jaem_ | and on-screen notifications (banner and such) are handled differently | 06:12 |
| jaem_ | yes, it uses DBus, so you can use any language with DBus bindings | 06:12 |
| AakashPatel | oh i see | 06:13 |
| * AakashPatel hasnt used DBus before | 06:13 | |
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| jaem_ | AakashPatel, have fun >:) | 06:13 |
| jaem_ | it takes some getting used to | 06:13 |
| AakashPatel | I shall :/ | 06:13 |
| AakashPatel | haha | 06:13 |
| * AakashPatel wonders how banner notifications are handled | 06:14 | |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, I think it's called hildon-banner | 06:15 |
| jaem_ | it should be mentioned on the wiki | 06:15 |
| AakashPatel | yea isnt that GTK though? | 06:15 |
| jaem_ | um, yes, but I'm not sure if you access it directly, or if it's DBus, or something else entirely | 06:15 |
| jaem_ | haven't a clue ;) | 06:15 |
| AakashPatel | Hm, maybe I'll just make the network stuff using QT and the GUI using GTK | 06:16 |
| AakashPatel | if thats possible o.O | 06:16 |
| crashanddie_mbp | possible, but highly not recommended | 06:16 |
| jaem_ | don't | 06:16 |
| jaem_ | just... don't | 06:16 |
| AakashPatel | i see | 06:16 |
| AakashPatel | hah i wont | 06:16 |
| crashanddie_mbp | AakashPatel: the overhead of loading two completely separate libraries would be massive | 06:17 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, see this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon/Qt_Hildon_Widgets | 06:17 |
| jaem_ | not sure what state it's in, but the Qt version of hildon-banner is out there now | 06:17 |
| jaem_ | you'll probably have to compile it for now | 06:17 |
| jaem_ | Qt4 for Maemo is slated to "officially" pass QA in Q1 2010, I belive | 06:18 |
| jaem_ | it's still not finished | 06:18 |
| jaem_ | but it works | 06:18 |
| AakashPatel | Hm what would in your opinoin be easier, using GTK for the whole app, for QT | 06:18 |
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| AakashPatel | opinion* | 06:18 |
| AakashPatel | for/or* | 06:19 |
| jaem_ | Qt | 06:19 |
| jaem_ | haven't used GTK, but the code looks scary | 06:19 |
| asidjazz | theres definitley apps on maemo select not in the app manager | 06:19 |
| asidjazz | jaem_: u good @ cpp? | 06:19 |
| jaem_ | asidjazz, somewhat | 06:21 |
| jaem_ | just heading for dinner - anything quick? | 06:21 |
| * jaem_ will be ack | 06:22 | |
| jaem_ | back* | 06:22 |
| Macer | hm | 06:22 |
| asidjazz | no i was just asknig | 06:22 |
| asidjazz | cuz you were look at gtk | 06:22 |
| Macer | osx + term + screen + irssi is goofy | 06:22 |
| asidjazz | i still havent dipped into it yet | 06:22 |
| Macer | like the text keeps reversing on its own for some reason | 06:23 |
| Macer | maybe there is some odd option i missed | 06:23 |
| * crashanddie_mbp is bored | 06:24 | |
| asidjazz | this in maemo Macer ? | 06:24 |
| crashanddie_mbp | asidjazz: osx in maemo? | 06:25 |
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| Macer | hm.. ok | 06:26 |
| Macer | well. hopefully that did the job. guess xterm-color just sucks | 06:26 |
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| AakashPatel | If i had an app in Qt | 06:29 |
| AakashPatel | Could I still use a protobuf lib compiled for cpp? | 06:29 |
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| Macer | AakashPatel: are you building on the n900 itself? | 06:30 |
| Macer | does it have like dev tools on the phone? | 06:30 |
| AakashPatel | Yes | 06:30 |
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| AakashPatel | Oh no | 06:30 |
| Macer | wow that's pretty awesome | 06:30 |
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| AakashPatel | :P | 06:30 |
| Macer | oh | 06:30 |
| Macer | yeah. i figured it wouldn't haha | 06:30 |
| AakashPatel | i dontsee why i couldnt | 06:30 |
| Macer | i tried to get that working in maemo4.. didn't work | 06:30 |
| Macer | try it and let me kno | 06:30 |
| Macer | know lol | 06:31 |
| AakashPatel | lol maybe :P | 06:31 |
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| Macer | i'm on my macbook. i haven't used the damn thing in like forever | 06:31 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | Macer: it worked fine on the n8x0 | 06:33 |
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| AakashPatel | wtfff | 06:33 |
| AakashPatel | errarrr | 06:33 |
| AakashPatel | when 'make'ing | 06:33 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Macer: a lot of people had a full python dev environment running or full gcc/g++ system | 06:34 |
| AakashPatel | http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon | 06:36 |
| AakashPatel | :0 | 06:36 |
| AakashPatel | init.c:(.text+0x30): undefined reference to `main | 06:44 |
| AakashPatel | :| | 06:44 |
| Macer | crashanddie_mbp: lies! | 06:50 |
| Macer | heh | 06:50 |
| crashanddie_mbp | AakashPatel: use an int main(void) in your file? | 06:51 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Macer: ? | 06:51 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Macer: liqbase was 100% built on an n810 | 06:51 |
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| AakashPatel | crashanddie_mbp, http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/network-http.html | 06:51 |
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| AakashPatel | I tried to compile that in the armel target in scratchbox | 06:52 |
| Macer | lies!! | 06:52 |
| Macer | heh | 06:52 |
| crashanddie_mbp | and? | 06:52 |
| AakashPatel | erm hold on | 06:52 |
| AakashPatel | http://pastebin.com/m67657776 | 06:52 |
| AakashPatel | I'm getting that errro | 06:53 |
| crashanddie_mbp | because you didn't download the main.cpp? | 06:53 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I dunno dude | 06:53 |
| crashanddie_mbp | why the fuck would I know why some dodgy program doesn't compile? | 06:53 |
| crashanddie_mbp | check the source code, use your brains :) | 06:54 |
| Macer | haha | 06:54 |
| Macer | i thought that was what apt was for | 06:54 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Macer: he's trying to do development | 06:54 |
| AakashPatel | D: | 06:54 |
| AakashPatel | And failing | 06:54 |
| crashanddie_mbp | or at least, running some piece of code | 06:54 |
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| AakashPatel | how can i run a GUI app from the terminal? | 07:07 |
| AakashPatel | I do rootsh /media/mmc1/test | 07:08 |
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| AakashPatel | but it says Permission denied | 07:08 |
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| AakashPatel | why the hell is it permission denying me? | 07:15 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | perhaps because you're underage | 07:15 |
| AakashPatel | haha | 07:15 |
| AakashPatel | but srsly | 07:16 |
| AakashPatel | do you have a clue? | 07:16 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | many | 07:16 |
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| AakashPatel | CutMeOwnThroat, Do you want to help me out? | 07:16 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | a) dunno if you can use rootsh like that... b) ls -la /media/mmc1/test | 07:17 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | and c) there's a mountflag that allows executing | 07:17 |
| AakashPatel | -rw-r--r-- | 07:17 |
| AakashPatel | I moved it over to MyDOcs | 07:18 |
| * AakashPatel chmod 777's it | 07:19 | |
| AakashPatel | :/ | 07:20 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | chmod a+x yourfile | 07:20 |
| AakashPatel | okay | 07:20 |
| AakashPatel | it stays the same | 07:20 |
| AakashPatel | :/ | 07:20 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | (777 does it too, I mostly prefer the more obvious a+x and so on) | 07:20 |
| AakashPatel | Yeh | 07:21 |
| AakashPatel | idk why its staying rw-r--r-- though :/ | 07:21 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | mmc1 is the external card... it's a fat filesystem | 07:21 |
| AakashPatel | i moved it to MyDocs/test | 07:21 |
| AakashPatel | and i'm in a root shell | 07:22 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | probably something like mount /media/mmc1/ -o remount,fmask=000 does it | 07:23 |
| AakashPatel | but its not on mmc1 anymore | 07:23 |
| AakashPatel | its on the phone's flash | 07:23 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | you also get permission denied if it's a shell scipt which has #!/somewhere/nonexecutablefile | 07:25 |
| AakashPatel | this is compiled binary | 07:25 |
| AakashPatel | a quick hello world in qt | 07:25 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | try mount |grep noexec | 07:28 |
| AakashPatel | okay i ran it | 07:30 |
| AakashPatel | /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat | 07:30 |
| AakashPatel | :/ | 07:30 |
| AakashPatel | where should i move it? | 07:31 |
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| AakashPatel | okay got it | 07:33 |
| AakashPatel | thank | 07:33 |
| AakashPatel | s | 07:33 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | $HOME/bin? | 07:33 |
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| AakashPatel | i tried in /var/tmp | 07:33 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 07:33 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | you can also remount vfat to allow all kinds of things, as I pointed out above | 07:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | has anybody seen a manual for the tiny CA-148C usb-adapter that came with N900? | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I'd think using this adapter without proper instruction is rather scary | 07:52 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | ~ping | 08:18 |
| infobot | ~pong | 08:18 |
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| * lucent has N900 on pre-order, peeks in to see what he can see | 08:21 | |
| jiiv | :/ not much, mine's just shipped Friday. | 08:22 |
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| lucent | it's exciting for me - I'm a long time Linux user and I was not thinking "wow" until the N900 caught my eye | 08:23 |
| lucent | never had a phone with a data plan | 08:23 |
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| jiiv | I've been addicted to my n810 for quite some time, but the n900 is really the first 'gadget' that has really excited me. | 08:24 |
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| jiiv | there's no telling how many times i refreshed dell's order page in the last month... | 08:25 |
| lucent | what pushed me to the point of buying it is my AT&T plan for basic nationwide service is more expensive than T-Mobile 3G with unlimited dataplan | 08:25 |
| lucent | linux phone, works with cheaper phone service, have 3G coverage in my area... done deal. | 08:26 |
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| lucent | jiiv: have you any thoughts about protecting the phone from scratches? | 08:26 |
| lucent | I have never had an expensive phone - as I said above - so I'm nervous about what to do on a slider device | 08:27 |
| jiiv | I ordered one of the zagg full body kits, but don't know how good it is or when it'll arrive. | 08:27 |
| jiiv | honestly i'm not too worried about the slider- my 810 is still very solid after a year or two of everyday use. | 08:27 |
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| lucent | ah, yeah ordered a zagg here too... was backordered 2-3 weeks from then | 08:27 |
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| lucent | cool to hear that thanks | 08:28 |
| lucent | what was the battery run time of the N810? | 08:28 |
| jiiv | no problem :) i've only spent about 10 minutes with a 900, but it seemed good too. | 08:28 |
| jiiv | the 810...well, with limited use it's good for definitely more than a day. | 08:28 |
| lucent | I don't know if I should compare N900 to a sub notebook or a cameraphone | 08:28 |
| jiiv | if i work it really hard on wifi i can probably kill it in 4-6 hours? | 08:28 |
| jiiv | it's between the two, really. | 08:28 |
| lucent | ah, okay | 08:28 |
| johnx | I've had one since oct 9th. People have said that it scratches easily, but mine seems ok without a screen protector so far. Also, I'm not so worried about keeping it looking "totally new" at the cost of reduced touchscreen sensitivity... | 08:29 |
| pekuja | a day is ok | 08:29 |
| pekuja | less than that is not enough for a phone | 08:29 |
| jiiv | effectively it has as much power as a netbook, but much more portability. | 08:29 |
| jiiv | indeed. | 08:29 |
| pekuja | less than a day is just not very dependable | 08:30 |
| jiiv | true. i honestly don't know how the 900 will last, but with recent firmware the reports have been pretty good. | 08:30 |
| johnx | there are good ways to kill the battery for sure. Running the FM transmitter constantly is one. Or keeping some flash applet running in the browser for hours | 08:30 |
| lucent | jiiv: any idea if the zagg would interfere with IR wavelength light? | 08:30 |
| jiiv | shouldn't, it's transparent. | 08:30 |
| lucent | transparent to us | 08:30 |
| lucent | I don't know about IR | 08:30 |
| jiiv | true ;) | 08:30 |
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| jiiv | i believe the ir port is cutout on the zagg though. | 08:31 |
| lucent | ah | 08:31 |
| jiiv | don't quote me, but i think that's the case. | 08:31 |
| johnx | thinking about the proximity sensor? I think someone already tested some screen protector and said it was ok | 08:31 |
| johnx | dunno if it was the zagg | 08:31 |
| jiiv | yeah, there was a post on that. | 08:31 |
| lucent | okay so a slider with a zagg full body, then... I'm worried about "butterfingers" dropping the thing or throwing it into a backpack of ski gear | 08:31 |
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| jiiv | yeah...supposedly the zagg's tough; ski gear may not be a major issue unless you really crush it. but it's a very solid-feeling device. | 08:32 |
| johnx | how sharp is your ski gear? :) | 08:32 |
| lucent | ordering a CP321 was like pulling teeth, it's not available in the USA | 08:32 |
| jiiv | cp321? | 08:32 |
| lucent | johnx: depends if I'm running from the police or not that day? :P | 08:33 |
| jiiv | ah, case. | 08:33 |
| jiiv | i kinda wish they'd included a sleeve like they did on the 810...the color scheme was kinda girly, but it's not a bad way to carry one. | 08:33 |
| johnx | lucent, if you're running from the police, you'll want the N900 in your pocket so you can easily grab it and throw it at them :) | 08:33 |
| lucent | ah, okay so it's solid | 08:34 |
| lucent | very good | 08:34 |
| jiiv | nah, he needs it in hand so he can hack the traffic lights & cause a traffic jam like zero cool. | 08:34 |
| lucent | I'm only wishing N900 had an RFID reader | 08:34 |
| jiiv | that would be handy. it'll apparently do barcodes via mbarcode... | 08:35 |
| lucent | ooh! | 08:35 |
| jiiv | i haven't tried it (obviously, given my lack of a device), but the forums indicate that it's pretty good. | 08:35 |
| lucent | I never bothered to look since I was thinking it is a phone, does there exist some kind of USB host support? | 08:35 |
| jiiv | no, though it's questionable whether it may happen at some point or not. | 08:36 |
| lucent | oh I thought it had to be in hardware | 08:36 |
| jiiv | that's sort of a big letdown, i use usb on my current nit all the time. | 08:36 |
| lucent | years ago I jumped on the gadget train and bought a Sharp C3000, and then C3100 | 08:37 |
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| lucent | with a special host adapter cable, it enabled host adapter mode | 08:37 |
| jiiv | i'm not sure of the details, honestly. it's definite that it doesn't work out of the box, but some people seem to think it's possible. | 08:37 |
| jiiv | cool. | 08:37 |
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| jiiv | yeah, host mode is very handy for me. apparently some people never use it, but i'm going to miss it if it's not there. :/ | 08:37 |
| lucent | yeah, I'd find it useful just to get a serial port going | 08:37 |
| crashanddie_mbp_ | host mode would be awesome for more than one reason | 08:38 |
| jiiv | i believe there are bluetooth to serial modules available? | 08:38 |
| jiiv | but yeah, usb drives in particular. | 08:38 |
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| fredrin | is host mode possible on the n900? | 08:38 |
| jiiv | currently no usb host, but maybe someone can make something work. | 08:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | host mode very likely possible for externally powerwd devices. seems it,s difficult to provide 5V to N900 receptacle from builtin bat | 08:39 |
| cehteh | it conflicts with the charge-over-usb specs so its a bit delicate | 08:39 |
| jiiv | indeed. | 08:39 |
| fredrin | it would be nice to be able to plugin usbsticks | 08:39 |
| RST38h | Poor tmo has become completely useless :( | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nah. why does it conflict?? | 08:40 |
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| jiiv | i'd be fine with carrying a seperate power-injection device if necessary. | 08:40 |
| cehteh | i dont know the details, but i suspect there is a standard how power for charging is arbitated which will not work with gadgets | 08:41 |
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| cehteh | note that charging can draw way more power than usb is normally permitted | 08:41 |
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| cehteh | and the charge circruit might not like/work with putting power out there | 08:41 |
| lucent | RST38h: tmo? like tmobile | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's all moot points | 08:42 |
| jiiv | talk.maemo.org? | 08:42 |
| lucent | oh okay I'm new | 08:42 |
| jiiv | i'm not sure which he meant either, actually :) | 08:42 |
| jiiv | kinda wish the two weren't the same acronym... | 08:42 |
| cehteh | well if it is electically impossible then it would be rather tough | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there,s even an official charger spec supplement to usb-otg | 08:42 |
| lucent | nervous also about the $50 rebate, can I sign up for ovi store from wifi connection or do I need a 3G/EDGE connection for any reason? | 08:42 |
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| RST38h | And irc appears to be helpless too... | 08:43 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: other way around or? | 08:43 |
| cehteh | or they just didnt implement that spec but just client mode and the (now EU offical) spec for charging cell phones over usb | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | huh? | 08:43 |
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| cehteh | officially the n900 does not support usb otg .. point | 08:44 |
| cehteh | anything around that would pure hacking | 08:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | cehteh: notice OTG isn't exactly what we want. Hostmode would keep everybody smiling. OTG is useless fancy crap mostly | 08:46 |
| t_s_o | hmm, the battery charge spec say that one can draw upto 1.5A at low or full speed. thats quite a bit more then the 500mA that usb 2.0 normally allows... | 08:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | so what? | 08:47 |
| jiiv | yeah, host is fine. | 08:47 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | that's for chargers | 08:47 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes sure, but i dont know some tell the hardware is incapable of host mode (maybe just some wrong directed diode?) others say its just not certified because of lack of software | 08:47 |
| cehteh | but i am pretty sure that you can fry your device when you dont exactly know what you are doing there | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yes, and nobody knows details | 08:48 |
| cehteh | seen the charging n990 from freerunner thing? | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | lol | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | sure | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I closed the ticket on OM-trac | 08:49 |
| cehteh | well i dont want my n900 turning into a brick if molten plastic :) | 08:49 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | point taken | 08:49 |
| jaem_ | jiiv, (re tmo), talk.maemo.org is generally written lowercase, with periods "t.m.o", as opposed to T-Mo | 08:50 |
| cehteh | i dont know the electrical details about charger/host mode but normally there are some protecting circruits on usb ports, fuses, antilpolar diodes and such | 08:50 |
| jaem_ | but yes, it is a bit ambiguous sometimes | 08:50 |
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| cehteh | it needs some hardware support for making it possible | 08:50 |
| jiiv | jaem_: yeah :/ i've seen them both in a variety of ways. | 08:50 |
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| jaem_ | jiiv, heh, yeah | 08:51 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | cehteh: yes. exactly | 08:51 |
| cehteh | chargin pull the 2 data lines up with a 200 ohm resistor iirc .. but i dont know more | 08:51 |
| t_s_o | heh, reading about otg, i would love to see all usb 3 or at some later point, be basically otg as long as they can be self-powered... | 08:51 |
| lucent | bluetooth serial might work for my uses, erg | 08:52 |
| t_s_o | that is, make all self-powered devices peers, rather then host/node, or whatever its called... | 08:52 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | cehteh: no, chargers short the D+ with D- | 08:52 |
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| lucent | shame I can't re-use my usb gadgets with the N900 out of the box | 08:52 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: or that .... but over a resistor | 08:52 |
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| cehteh | i am thinking about building a charge circruit from my bike dynamo .. when i do that i look into the details | 08:53 |
| cehteh | but first i need a n900 :P | 08:53 |
| cehteh | then a rugged case .. | 08:53 |
| * jaem_ gives cehteh an N900 | 08:53 | |
| cehteh | so .. prolly in summer :P | 08:53 |
| jaem_ | oh, you mean a *real* one | 08:54 |
| cehteh | yeah | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | cehteh: the resistor has 0..20 Ohms iirc ;-D | 08:54 |
| cehteh | prolly nokia will drop maemo in favor of symbian just when i receive mine | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | doubt that | 08:55 |
| cehteh | apple cancled the newton after i brought one | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | N900 sells like cold beer in summer | 08:55 |
| t_s_o | symbian is a even greater mess, thing is tho that nokia at some level still wants clearly defined devices rather then general computers... | 08:55 |
| cehteh | well i am confident with the n900 because its sufficiently open enough to last longer than nokia might be interested | 08:56 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yep | 08:56 |
| cehteh | btw has the internal micro sd port sdio capabilities? | 08:57 |
| cehteh | is that even possible? | 08:57 |
| cehteh | would open it for some hacks :) | 08:57 |
| t_s_o | i think micro-sd can be sdio yes, but about the n900 supporting it, no clue. hell, i dont even know why they would as it seems sdio is a solution looking for a problem... | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | you talk about real uSD, not internal MMC I guess? Anyway, no idea | 08:58 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | cehteh: I've used smart uSDs and communicated with them successfully | 08:59 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | cehteh: though, it's not real SDIO | 08:59 |
| cehteh | ah nice .. well thats a start | 09:00 |
| lucent | cehteh: ;) | 09:00 |
| cehteh | well half as usefull since its not an external sd port .. but well | 09:01 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | depends for whom | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | aiui there's an internal USB bus. If you want to hack the hardware | 09:01 |
| * cehteh adds that to the long list of wishes | 09:01 | |
| lucent | sdio is a very tightly licensed and controlled consortum specification | 09:01 |
| lucent | (I heard this from rockbox music firmware developers) | 09:01 |
| cehteh | compass, external SDIO, dual SIM, biggier battery ... | 09:02 |
| lucent | compass? | 09:02 |
| cehteh | lucent: yes but the kernel has drivers for sdio | 09:02 |
| crashanddie_mbp | there are ways around -- SDIO is an implementation of a good idea, there are other implementations | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | dual SIM, yeah | 09:02 |
| cehteh | crashanddie_mbp: well there is no wired bus at all where the n900 can play master | 09:02 |
| lucent | I don't know any phone with dual SIM though | 09:02 |
| cehteh | ethernet jack! :) | 09:03 |
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| cehteh | lucent: compass and this broken gps might be the dealbreaker for me | 09:03 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I had a prototype uSD card where basically I used a control file and another keepalive file, to which I would write/read commands | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | I know a phone with triple sim | 09:03 |
| lucent | if it makes and receives calls, then I will be very happy with it | 09:04 |
| cehteh | actually i hope to see the gps (without network) fixed before my device arrives | 09:04 |
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| cehteh | how much power draws the gps btw? | 09:04 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hog | 09:04 |
| cehteh | damn | 09:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | though YMMV | 09:05 |
| cehteh | well, i want gps running with light use for 6-8hours at least .. and preferably no agps but standalone | 09:06 |
| cehteh | if that doesnt work i send it back | 09:07 |
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| cehteh | already having no compass demotivated me | 09:07 |
| lucent | tough to please, eh | 09:08 |
| johnx | cehteh, "GPS running" as in recording a track? or is "standby" ok, where it will get a fix in a couple seconds? | 09:08 |
| t_s_o | want to jump on the AR fad? | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: exactly the point | 09:08 |
| cehteh | johnx: fix in standlone mode seems to be broken ... partly due the crappy gps chip they use, partly due software problems | 09:09 |
| cehteh | and that they dont open the specs so that anyone hacks around the software problems is really disgusting | 09:09 |
| johnx | cehteh, so you're planning to be using GPS without a net connection 6-8 hours every day? | 09:09 |
| johnx | do you live on a mountain? | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | nah, it probably just takes a bit longer and needs better signal for first fix | 09:09 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, nah. it's pretty unlikely to get a fix without a net connection, it seems | 09:10 |
| cehteh | johnx: where i live i dont need gps .. but when on vacation in mountains on some foreign country yes then i need exactly that | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: bummer | 09:11 |
| johnx | cehteh, cancel your order | 09:11 |
| cehteh | guess so | 09:11 |
| cehteh | well i keep it up for now and wait ... maybe someone has a idea/fix | 09:11 |
| johnx | some people have been working on some way to pre-cache the information needed | 09:11 |
| cehteh | yeah .. success so far? | 09:11 |
| johnx | nothing yet | 09:12 |
| cehteh | i seen that but didnt seen results | 09:12 |
| johnx | if you think that there will be a 100% solution soon and you'll be possed if there isn't, then you should probably just avoid it | 09:12 |
| RST38h | ah, ehlo johnx | 09:12 |
| johnx | mornin' RST38h | 09:12 |
| cehteh | and really isnt that the normal use case for gps that you need it when you are not at home but in some rual area, prolly in some foreign country | 09:12 |
| * johnx attempts to 'manage expectations' | 09:12 | |
| cehteh | where you dont have net at all or at best expensive data roaming? | 09:13 |
| johnx | a pre-paid sim might do the trick | 09:13 |
| johnx | you'd have to see on a case-by-case basis | 09:13 |
| cehteh | and a pocket-cell tower for the areas where there is no net at all | 09:13 |
| johnx | but if you're hiking in mountains, relying on a phone GPS...well, maybe you can afford a standalone GPS with money from the Darwin award you get | 09:14 |
| * RST38h does not understand what the problem is | 09:14 | |
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| RST38h | N900 does not work with external BT GPS units? | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | heh, AGPS is just to cache or get just in time the data of ephem and almanac from net, but *every* GPS chipset can download the full data from sat in max 12 min | 09:14 |
| johnx | RST38h++ :) | 09:14 |
| cehteh | yes i just liked the idea to have all in one device, its a toy anyways | 09:14 |
| lucent | wow, so I should probably keep my GPSlim236 around | 09:15 |
| cehteh | RST38h: yes it does .. i know some people who use BT GPS and a n800 | 09:15 |
| johnx | $20 and a tiny dongle to carry is a pretty small price to pay when you need GPS | 09:15 |
| lucent | now there's a good reason why I bought it years ago ;) | 09:15 |
| cehteh | but its really a shame that doesnt work | 09:15 |
| cehteh | and you have 2 devices to charge and carry .. BT draws power too and still no compass | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | RST38h: sure it does - at least it claims to do | 09:16 |
| johnx | I'd actually be willing to bet that using a BT GPS draws less power out of the N900 than using it's internal GPS | 09:17 |
| cehteh | i wonder if gps or bt draws more power ... prolly gps because of a lot calculations | 09:17 |
| cehteh | yeah | 09:17 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: yep | 09:17 |
| cehteh | bt should draw much less power than wlan too or? | 09:18 |
| johnx | also: RST38h was being sarcastic I do believe :) | 09:18 |
| * cehteh thinks about networking over bt instead wlan when my laptop is in reach | 09:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | cehteh: depends on WLAN mode: 10mW or 100mW | 09:19 |
| johnx | it really doesn't | 09:19 |
| johnx | what it does depend on is ad-hoc vs infrastructure | 09:19 |
| cehteh | does it adjust automatically? | 09:19 |
| cehteh | well infrastructure here .. with powermanagement | 09:20 |
| johnx | it sleeps when it's not transmitting/receiving, but *only* if it's in infrastructure mode | 09:20 |
| cehteh | i know | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yep | 09:20 |
| johnx | OTOH, running at 10mW is likely to end up with the client retransmitting due to dropped frames (or so says some guy at Nokia on a message board long ago) | 09:21 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | more precise it's sending "beacons" all the time in adhoc | 09:21 |
| cehteh | doesnt it adjust power automatically? | 09:22 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | nope | 09:22 |
| cehteh | eww | 09:22 |
| cehteh | all wlan devices i know are capable of that | 09:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm | 09:22 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | never heard of | 09:22 |
| johnx | uhm, it adjusts to *off* | 09:22 |
| johnx | that's just about the best power adjustment you can get really | 09:22 |
| cehteh | hey you get S/N ratio .. if its going bad you increase transmit power | 09:23 |
| cehteh | thats not rocket science | 09:23 |
| cehteh | iirc in infrastructure mode the access point can tell clients when their signal is too weak | 09:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | there's no quality-of-transmission feedback from AP to client | 09:24 |
| cehteh | are you 100% sure? | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | no | 09:24 |
| cehteh | iirc there is | 09:24 |
| RST38h | cehteh: Then N900 GPS shortcomings are unpleasant but not a show stopper | 09:24 |
| RST38h | Nothing to whine about for so long | 09:24 |
| cehteh | RST38h: for me its very close to a show stopper | 09:25 |
| johnx | cehteh, DocScrutinizer: [*] citation needed :) | 09:25 |
| cehteh | i guess thats everyones personal decision | 09:25 |
| johnx | cehteh, just make sure that whatever you get instead of an N900 actually does what you think it does | 09:25 |
| cehteh | i already expected a compass .. which i now decided 'maybe i go without it' | 09:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | johnx: for what exactly? :-) | 09:25 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, for the "AP sends quality of received frame" thing. You both recalled differently | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | in N810 there's a option 10/100mW | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | in N900 too iirc | 09:26 |
| cehteh | johnx: well there is no direct alternative .. i dont need a phone that urgendly, but a tablet, camera (small always with me) and a gps in combination, running on a free OS have no competition currently | 09:27 |
| johnx | in the N810 it was for local FCC-type compliance | 09:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | the QoS thing is just from monitor mode and bisecting every packet | 09:27 |
| RST38h | cehteh: http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/products_list.jsp?pno=2 | 09:27 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | personal experience | 09:27 |
| cehteh | RST38h: yes i know these dongles | 09:28 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, yeah. I was just trying to be funny, since you both said opposite things. think nothing of it :) | 09:28 |
| cehteh | its just a shame that the n900's gps is that crappy and no compass, thats what i am whine about | 09:28 |
| RST38h | they are not dongles, no wires | 09:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | edit connection accept accept... extended settings other | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | WLAN power: 10 / 100mW | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | on N900 exactly same as on N810 | 09:31 |
| cehteh | no other steps 30 50 70 mw? | 09:32 |
| johnx | yup. Knew about that for a while. I was referring to the other thing: about the AP not sending back info on quality to the client | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | nope | 09:32 |
| johnx | cehteh, it's an FCC compliance thing | 09:32 |
| johnx | it's not for power saving purposes | 09:33 |
| cehteh | ok | 09:33 |
| cehteh | well 10mW are unuseable unless you are really next to the AP | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | strange, as the 11 vs 13chan is done hidden from user | 09:34 |
| cehteh | TX power: 15 dBm (31.62 mW) | 09:34 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: depends on location | 09:34 |
| cehteh | iirc channel 13 is Japan only | 09:34 |
| cehteh | dunno about 11 | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | nah, germany as well iirc | 09:34 |
| cehteh | nope germany not for sure | 09:35 |
| cehteh | i am in germany :) | 09:35 |
| johnx | I think Japan actually gets 13 or 14 | 09:35 |
| cehteh | heh you too :P | 09:35 |
| johnx | one more than the N800 supported at least :) | 09:35 |
| cehteh | channel 13 is illegal here even if some devices export it | 09:35 |
| cehteh | so my laptop adjusts power level for TX | 09:36 |
| cehteh | iwconfig eth0 txpower auto | 09:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | 13 2,472 Europa, Japan | 09:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/WLAN#Frequenzen_und_Kan.C3.A4le | 09:36 |
| * lucent notices nobody has made a riff on 4chan | 09:36 | |
| johnx | lucent, in my case at least, I like to pretend it doesn't exist most of the time :) | 09:38 |
| lucent | yeah I'm kind of browsing it at "I heard from so-and-so at work the other day" distance | 09:38 |
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| Sargun | how do I add another photosharing service? | 09:56 |
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| andre__ | Sargun, like? | 10:11 |
| Sargun | smugmug | 10:11 |
| andre__ | as a user? as a developer? | 10:11 |
| Sargun | developer | 10:11 |
| andre__ | Sargun, for an easier life: wait a few weeks until bug 6177 will be resolved. for the hackish way: check out the code diffs in bug 5300. | 10:13 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6177 Consider pushing sharing-dialog-dev to nokia-binaries to encourage developer usage of sharing dialog | 10:13 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager | 10:13 |
| andre__ | I also hope that something's written about it in http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide | 10:14 |
| Myrtti | would anyone want to do me a small, small, veryvery small widget? It needs to do have one button and two functions | 10:19 |
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| Proteous | the button would be labled "bacon" | 10:20 |
| Proteous | the two functions would be to produce bacon and coffee | 10:20 |
| Myrtti | one of the functions is "reset" and the other is that when the widget is tapped, the number on it increases by one. | 10:20 |
| Proteous | most awesome widget ever | 10:20 |
| Myrtti | reset would naturally reset the counter to 0 | 10:20 |
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| Myrtti | I'm sure there is several usecases for such a counter, but I'd need it for my knitting to keep track of the rows of stiches I've done, or tens of stiches made | 10:22 |
| Myrtti | or I'll just learn python/whatever and do it myself... | 10:23 |
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| Ashenburg | any of you familiar with drnoksnes? is there a way to edit the controller layout? | 10:29 |
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| Myrtti | meh. I'm looking at pygtk tutorial and hating it already | 10:38 |
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| RST38h | Ladies and gentlemen! I am happy to announce that thanks to Clive Crous, Vulture's Eye works perfectly on N900 now | 10:44 |
| RST38h | Just needs some packaging. | 10:45 |
| jiiv | woot! um...what's that? | 10:45 |
| Ashenburg | sweet, I never tried nethack :) | 10:45 |
| jiiv | oh, it's a nethack? excellent. | 10:45 |
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| pekuja | a graphical version | 10:48 |
| jiiv | oh...i'm not sure how i feel about that. | 10:48 |
| pekuja | I'm sure the text version works just fine too | 10:48 |
| jiiv | kk :) | 10:49 |
| pekuja | but then maybe on a small device you would want some sort of GUI | 10:49 |
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| pekuja | but I suppose the keyboard works pretty well for nethack too | 10:49 |
| jiiv | it seems to. i have one (dungeon crawl i think?) on my 810 and it's fine for me. | 10:49 |
| jiiv | should hopefully receive my n900 this week some time. | 10:50 |
| pekuja | it's Sunday | 10:50 |
| pekuja | oh, you live in the part of the world where Sunday starts the week | 10:50 |
| jiiv | yes :) | 10:50 |
| pekuja | I'm hoping to get mine next week ;-) | 10:50 |
| pekuja | which starts tomorrow | 10:50 |
| pekuja | but I don't really know. | 10:51 |
| jiiv | best of luck with that :) dell apparently finally shipped mine friday, but i still have no tracking information. :/ | 10:51 |
| pekuja | Dell sells them? | 10:51 |
| pekuja | weird | 10:51 |
| jiiv | i haven't been excited about a new device in years, but now i'm like a kid waiting on christmas presents. | 10:51 |
| jiiv | they just resell for nokia, i believe. | 10:52 |
| jiiv | they had an excellent deal on november 5th, so i preordered through them. | 10:52 |
| pekuja | :-) | 10:53 |
| pekuja | how much was it? | 10:53 |
| jiiv | i believe it was $473 US, or something close to that after shipping and tax. | 10:54 |
| pekuja | not bad | 10:54 |
| pekuja | I ordered mine from my operator | 10:54 |
| jiiv | well, won't be bad if it ever arrives. :/ i'd started doubting that. | 10:54 |
| jiiv | oh? who do you use? | 10:54 |
| pekuja | it comes to about 550 euros during two years | 10:54 |
| pekuja | Saunalahti | 10:54 |
| jiiv | i'll pretend i know who that is. :) where do you live? | 10:55 |
| pekuja | I know some people who ordered from them have already received their devices | 10:55 |
| pekuja | which is encouraging | 10:55 |
| pekuja | Finland | 10:55 |
| jiiv | i'd figured so...it looked Finnish, but i'm not terribly familiar with it. | 10:55 |
| pekuja | :-) | 10:56 |
| pekuja | they're a smaller operator here anyways | 10:56 |
| jiiv | yes, having people who ordered from the same place receive their devices is both encouraging and terribly annoying...several people who ordered from dell after i did ended up getting them a couple weeks ago. :/ | 10:56 |
| jiiv | ah. none of our operators are selling them yet over here. | 10:56 |
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| Ashenburg | RST38h: how do you play VE? with the keyboard or can you use the touchscreen? | 10:57 |
| RST38h | touchscreen | 10:57 |
| Ashenburg | nice! | 10:57 |
| jiiv | whoa, i just saw some screenshots of vulture's eye. that is sort of neat. | 10:57 |
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| jiiv | i believe it's about my bedtime, have a great evening. good luck on getting your n900, pekuja. | 11:01 |
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| Sargun | does it do doom yet? | 11:02 |
| pekuja | well, it does Quake 3 | 11:08 |
| pekuja | dunno about Doom | 11:08 |
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| lucent | I pre-ordered N900 from Amazon when it was 519.99 usd and received notice that it *might* ship 2009-12-11 or later | 11:09 |
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| lucent | it's only mildly inconvenient since I can't get a screen protector for it any earlier than that anyhow | 11:10 |
| pekuja | I think I'll just get a case of some sort for it | 11:12 |
| pekuja | like the one that came with N810 | 11:12 |
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| lucent | oh and I'm in the USA so getting the Nokia CP321 case for the N900 ... had to go to eBay for that | 11:13 |
| lucent | UK seller that ships internationally | 11:13 |
| pekuja | the CP321 looks nice | 11:13 |
| pekuja | I'll probably get one of those | 11:14 |
| pekuja | can you attach that to a belt or something though? | 11:14 |
| pekuja | looks like just a plain case | 11:14 |
| lucent | it's just an official slip case | 11:16 |
| lucent | I need something to keep it from getting whacked when riding in my backpack | 11:17 |
| lucent | zagg invisibleshield + slip case... for now | 11:17 |
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| pekuja | I'd like a belt clip case | 11:20 |
| pekuja | but the slip case might be fine too | 11:20 |
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| lucent | belt clips _never_ work well for me | 11:20 |
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| lucent | always end up in a dropped phone | 11:20 |
| pekuja | I haven't really used them to be honest | 11:21 |
| pekuja | perhaps slip case + pocket is better | 11:21 |
| lucent | oh, well I'm not totally advising against using a belt clip | 11:21 |
| pekuja | I just have my current phone in my pocket without any case | 11:21 |
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| lucent | just that if you do, expect to toast your phone every now and then and buy / reimburse a new one | 11:21 |
| lucent | if work pays for the phone, belt clip is much more convenient | 11:22 |
| lucent | have them buy you a new one when it meets the impending doom | 11:22 |
| pekuja | hah | 11:23 |
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| pekuja | maybe you're right | 11:23 |
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| flux | does anyone have a link to the osso-xterm keymap bindings list? I've lost my link.. apparently it's not in its sources either, nor in gtk/gdk? | 11:32 |
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| flux | I suppose I just suck at searching, because it's this that finally decodes the values: gdk_keyval_from_name(key_start) | 11:41 |
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| flux | ah, of course the map must be in gdk sources, not in its dev-headers | 11:42 |
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| johnx | ~lart XDMCP for being a PITA | 11:49 |
| * infobot pulls out his louisville slugger and uses XDMCP's head to break the homerun record for being a PITA | 11:49 | |
| SpeedEvil | lucent: on the stupid hacks front. | 11:50 |
| SpeedEvil | lucent: I currently have cling film as my screen protector. | 11:50 |
| SpeedEvil | lucent: breath on the display, then carefully stretch film across one broad edge of screen, and lower it down onto screen, while keeping film taught. | 11:51 |
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| GAN900 | Morning, everybody. | 11:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Then trim with scissors, and apply a 4mm line of tape around it. | 11:52 |
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| Meizirkki | morning GAN900 | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: how's bcn so far? | 11:52 |
| SpeedEvil | few bubbles if you do it right, and lasts OK with the stylus. fingernails can tear | 11:52 |
| cehteh | eww :P | 11:53 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, amazing | 11:53 |
| johnx | I don't think I ever did end up with any scratches in my N800's *screen* | 11:53 |
| * cehteh usually used cold laminator foil, for the n900 i now brought a screen protector for the first time | 11:53 | |
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| cehteh | .. well still waiting for the device :P | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: still think maemo is going to hell? :P | 11:54 |
| johnx | GAN900, good thing you got your passport, eh? | 11:54 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I have a protector on order too. | 11:54 |
| Myrtti | what version of ubuntu should I have to install maemo 5 sdk? | 11:54 |
| Myrtti | would hardy do? I'd prefer it because it's lts | 11:54 |
| cehteh | applying the cold laminator foil with destilled water and isopropanole mixture, no bubbles, but takes a few days to settle | 11:55 |
| Mek | I'm running hardy and never had problems with the maemo 5 sdk, so should work | 11:55 |
| Myrtti | and no, I don't want to read the documentation. I've done that for the past 6 months. | 11:55 |
| Myrtti | :-D | 11:55 |
| cehteh | i have some for *years* on some devices now | 11:55 |
| Myrtti | Mek: thanks. | 11:55 |
| cehteh | some quite scratched .. maybe i shall reapply a new one on my gps for example :P | 11:56 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, well, not in the 2-months-ago context, but not sure about Maemo 6. | 11:56 |
| GAN900 | Was out until 4 AM last night with a bunch of people | 11:56 |
| GAN900 | I'm done today. <_< | 11:57 |
| flux | the keymap url in case anyone else has use for it: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/gtk+/gdk/gdkkeysyms.h | 11:58 |
| SpeedEvil | proper screen protectors these days have the soft silicone backing which just sticks | 11:58 |
| SpeedEvil | gently | 11:58 |
| Myrtti | SpeedEvil: and would last in my use about a week | 11:58 |
| thomastp | cehteh: where did you buy screen protector for n900 ? | 11:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Myrtti: ? | 11:59 |
| SpeedEvil | ebay! | 11:59 |
| cehteh | some internet shop .. i already regret it, way to expensive and they spamed me already | 11:59 |
| SpeedEvil | http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=n900&=&_sacat=See-All-Categories | 11:59 |
| cehteh | google around there are plenty | 12:00 |
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| Myrtti | OMFG! OMFG! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-PINK-HYBRID-HARD-COVER-RUBBER-CASE-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ150394071202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item23042f68a2 | 12:00 |
| Myrtti | PINKKKKKK | 12:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I got http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOKIA-N900-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-HARD-CASE-SCREEN-PROTECTOR_W0QQitemZ190353399122QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item2c51f25d52 | 12:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Unsure how well it will work | 12:00 |
| GAN900 | johnx, yes. | 12:00 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 12:00 |
| Clok | http://phantomskinz.com/nokian900.aspx not very expensive cover | 12:01 |
| GAN900 | Anybody see the updated http://maemo.org/support page? | 12:01 |
| Myrtti | then of course, I need a N900. | 12:01 |
| Myrtti | and I just spent my budget for shopping stuff for three months yesterday | 12:01 |
| cehteh | i got a DuraSec HighTec .. but it feels rubberish, not even sure how it performs on the real device | 12:02 |
| Myrtti | I bloody well hope the mattress will take some of my back pain away | 12:02 |
| cehteh | its quite thick so it might give good protection .. to be seen | 12:02 |
| Gadgetoid | my god, do you guys ever sleep | 12:02 |
| Myrtti | Gadgetoid: timezones, ever heard? | 12:02 |
| Gadgetoid | i want an N900 case with a non crappy stand built in | 12:02 |
| Myrtti | 2009-12-06 12:02:31 | 12:02 |
| johnx | GAN900, Looks nice. I'm almost sure the "Talk forums" link shouldn't point to "http://internettablettalk.com" though | 12:02 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, we don't sleep. We wait. | 12:02 |
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| Clok | are those rubber cases any good? | 12:03 |
| Gadgetoid | what are you waiting for johnx? | 12:03 |
| cehteh | wait until my case is finished ... :) | 12:03 |
| Myrtti | after I'm done with my Christmas present knitting, I'll knit a pouch for my N800 | 12:04 |
| cehteh | did i saied that i need the device first? :P | 12:04 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, waiting for my shiny new laptop to ship (or for them to tell me they won't ship it. either one really) | 12:04 |
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| GAN900 | johnx, ah, oops. I blame Dave. ;) | 12:05 |
| Gadgetoid | johnx i had that with the core i7 imac | 12:05 |
| GAN900 | Also, the "Contributing to the wiki" article. | 12:05 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, yeah, thing is that I'm kinda worried the price they posted was an accident and I'm not sure if they'll honor it... | 12:07 |
| Gadgetoid | and the n900.. i never really believed theyd honor the cheeky discounts | 12:07 |
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| Gadgetoid | there's a toyota starlet wheel in my back garden... i feel so chavvy | 12:08 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, keen. what year? | 12:08 |
| GAN900 | Our fearless leader is really good at ordering tapas. | 12:08 |
| Myrtti | god i need that widget | 12:09 |
| Termana | Gadgetoid - bit old discussion, but still - don't let any of these people fool you, they are vampires, they stay up till 4 in the morning and then hide away from the sun all day | 12:09 |
| johnx | god I need a tapa | 12:09 |
| Myrtti | I've miscalculated my rows again :-( | 12:09 |
| Gadgetoid | I'm a curry man | 12:09 |
| Myrtti | this will end up a shitty beret | 12:09 |
| johnx | Termana, yeah. I hide away at work, though actually my coworkers make me keep the blinds closed so they don't get glare on their screens ... hmmm | 12:09 |
| Gadgetoid | sound about rightt termana... timezones are a poor excuse | 12:10 |
| Termana | Myrtti: Gadgetoid's curry? | 12:10 |
| Gadgetoid | hahaha | 12:10 |
| Gadgetoid | ring burn | 12:10 |
| Myrtti | Termana: :-( | 12:10 |
| flux | recently there was some demo about synchronizing pc firefox with the n900 browser, anyone have an url handy? | 12:10 |
| johnx | Myrtti, don't feel bad. I've had really poor luck making curry into any decent sort of hat. :| | 12:10 |
| Gadgetoid | flux real geeks remember all the important urls | 12:11 |
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| flux | gadgetoid, yes :( | 12:11 |
| Myrtti | meh. I'm trying to knit a christmas present to my sister and I need a row counter :-/ | 12:11 |
| Myrtti | you're no fun | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I did some tests with GPS and it's mostly behaving great. With and w/o AGPS net download. I,d dare to say it's obviously storing the seed data and reuses it on next start. Nevertheless I had a really hard time to put it to work when zthat data was "old" and network connectivity was supposed to be there but had stalled. | 12:11 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, yup. the problem is when it only has data to work with that's more than, say, half a day old | 12:12 |
| Gadgetoid | flux mainly because most of them contain a small subset of related words... such as wet, teens, nubile, win | 12:12 |
| johnx | and especially if you've moved a good distance since your last fix | 12:12 |
| johnx | flux, was it about fennec? | 12:13 |
| flux | johnx, ah, I think it was | 12:13 |
| johnx | http://lifehacker.com/5159079/firefox-mobile-aka-fennec-will-sync-tabs-with-firefox-on-your-desktop | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, that's kinda known common problem with all GPS. you can confuse hell out of chipset when uploading "wrong" data to it | 12:14 |
| Gadgetoid | sync tabs? | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, you know the filename of the seed file? | 12:15 |
| SpeedEvil | johnx: "" | 12:15 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, nope. look in /var maybe? | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | tried | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe I'm too tired | 12:16 |
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| Gadgetoid | cafeworld is retarded | 12:16 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, a world where the only businesses are cafes? | 12:16 |
| johnx | I'd put on some weight there, for sure | 12:17 |
| Gadgetoid | the facebook game, designed to draw gameplay over long and agonizing hours which you spend wholly alone instead of in an immersive social environment like world of warcraft | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I,d suggest to check internet connectivity prior to gps start. if no ping: delete too old file and disable network support setting for gps | 12:18 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, huh. is it anything like working at a cafe? | 12:18 |
| flux | johnx, thank you. although it's not as useful as I hoped, as it'd also require switching to that browser.. | 12:19 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer51, I'm actually trying to abuse lsof into cluing me in on what happens when I get an assisted fix | 12:19 |
| johnx | haven't caught it in the act yet though | 12:19 |
| Gadgetoid | no johnx... it totally lacks hot, coffee drinking chicks | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I'm not sure if that,ll pan out. probably short read and closing file | 12:20 |
| Gadgetoid | i'm drinking ceylon tea because i watched too much battlestar | 12:20 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, but does it include a simulation of deepfrying hashbrowns and french fries, leaving you with the smell of grease permanently embedded in your skin? | 12:20 |
| Gadgetoid | no johnx... it doesnt seem to | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I tried to find new files (mdate) __ fail | 12:21 |
| Gadgetoid | words for the morning: i made a poo daddy | 12:21 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, well, then it could be worse. you at least get minimum wage for playing, right? | 12:21 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, interesting, I was about to use a much more crude version of that same tactic | 12:22 |
| tigert | woop | 12:22 |
| tigert | new gpodder in repo | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | woo | 12:22 |
| johnx | tigert, doom upside down? | 12:22 |
| tigert | some new stuff we worked on yesterday | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, anyway I think without any file chipset is better off than with "wrong" one | 12:22 |
| tigert | johnx: :) ¡ɯɐuʇǝıʌ 'ƃuıuɹoɯ pooƃ | 12:23 |
| tigert | not everything we sketched is in the new release yet though | 12:23 |
| Gadgetoid | no johnx... i would lose money opotentially... it makes no sense! | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, and not even trying to access internet is clearly better than waiting for response never to come | 12:23 |
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| johnx | Gadgetoid, I have a better game for you then. It doesn't pay any money either, but you get to sit at my desk and answer support tickets for 8 hours, 5 days a week. interested? | 12:24 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer51, you really think it's blocking trying to access the net? | 12:24 |
| johnx | that'd be pretty silly | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, I suspect that, yes | 12:25 |
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| johnx | huh. maybe there is hope for improving it with some simple hacks then... | 12:25 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | hell no johnx, I left "tech requests" behind when I was made redundant | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, yeah. like I suggested above | 12:28 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | And then turned from being a DotNet developer to a PHP developer overnight | 12:28 |
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| johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, is that change a good thing or bad thing? | 12:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, first test: disable network support in gps setup prior to starting it with a obsolete data | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | simple | 12:29 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | johnx, it's simultaneously good and bad... but at least it's for a company that does both DotNet and PHP so I can bounce merrily from language to language like a sexually confused emo | 12:29 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer-8, disable...how? | 12:30 |
| * Gadgetoid_iMac looks up how best to cook bacon roast chicken | 12:30 | |
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| johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, well that sounds ... convenient? | 12:31 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | johnx, Yeah I had the new job before I even volunteered redundancy at my last one, which I'd been secretly willing to make me redundant for the best part of a year... what a lovely recession! | 12:31 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | And self employment means I get a tax refund on the cost of my tools... which just so happen to be computers... aaaah! | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, setup location network | 12:32 |
| johnx | it was the best of recessions, it was the worst of recessions? | 12:32 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | the *blurst of recessions | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | johnx, directly above field for AGPS server url | 12:33 |
| johnx | ah! I didn't know that was exposed in the GUI | 12:34 |
| johnx | madness | 12:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | :-) | 12:35 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I can't even test AGPS without a SIM *weeps* | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | found GPAjinni a great testtool | 12:35 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I had some anomolous results. | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | which | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | go ahead | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Which looked like the GPS timing out after a minute and a bit if it diddn't get a lock, with only gspjinni | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | with teh location applet open too, it worked better | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | can't reproduce | 12:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to do more testing - but need to wait for the fix to get stal | 12:37 |
| * Gadgetoid_iMac wants GPSD so his N900 can serve his netbook via his MiFi | 12:37 | |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | MiFi GPS enabling software STILL hasn't arrived | 12:38 |
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| pekuja | MiFi? | 12:38 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Mobile wifi router, pekuja | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, find the file. Delete it ;-) | 12:39 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - that | 12:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to work out how to install proper findutils | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | >xxx; gpsjinni; find / -newer xxx | 12:40 |
| sejo | hey all can someone tell me what repo to use best? (using fremantle and diablo) | 12:40 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I've written a PHP ajax framework that kinda emulates update panels in a way | 12:41 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | sejo I've been throwing stuff from extras-devel on my device like it's going out of fashion, and no problem syet | 12:41 |
| lardman | morning | 12:41 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | mplayer -framedrop porn.avi ftw! | 12:41 |
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| sejo | Gadgetoid: and is that the fremantle or the diablo? | 12:42 |
| sejo | Gadgetoid: does it have skype? | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, ^ this *basically* works | 12:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 12:42 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Err, you want to avoid diablo- although much of it will work the UI will be agonisingly difficult to use | 12:42 |
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| johnx | sejo, what device do you have? | 12:42 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Of course I assume you've got an N900 | 12:43 |
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| sejo | johnx: n900 | 12:45 |
| lardman | does dh_install in dh5 support the -X flag? | 12:45 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Then avoid diablo, sejo, unless there's an application you absolutely must have | 12:46 |
| johnx | sejo, you probably don't want to use diablo repositories | 12:46 |
| johnx | the device *comes with* skype voice chat, and AFAIK, there is no skype video released yet | 12:46 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I added diablo for FBReader, for example, but it's already been dropped unmodified into fremantle | 12:46 |
| sejo | so fremantle it is? | 12:46 |
| johnx | yes | 12:46 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | And I can't seem to find the magical way of binding keys that everyone else has found in FBReader | 12:46 |
| sejo | johnx: well here skype says it's enabled but can't get it online? | 12:47 |
| johnx | the repositories available are: extras (safest), extras-testing (alpha, beta, unstable stuff) and extras-devel (potentially very b0rken stuff) | 12:47 |
| johnx | sorry. no idea why skype isn't working for you | 12:47 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Worst extras can do, in my opinion, is fill up my filesystem with orphaned shit | 12:47 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | extras-devel, even | 12:48 |
| kynky | mozilla repository, nokia repository, nokia system update repository, then some user repositries | 12:48 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, or put an init script in that makes your device fail to boot, forcing a reflash | 12:48 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | johnx hasn't happened yet... fingers crossed | 12:48 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | But that's not bad, a reflash clears out the crud anyway! | 12:49 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, just saying. Don't suggest that new users all go out and enable extras-testing and extras-devel | 12:49 |
| lardman | I suppose devs should just try pushing more stuff to -testing once it's not killing devices, so users can try it out | 12:49 |
| kynky | df -h is handy in xterm | 12:49 |
| pekuja | extremely | 12:49 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | johnx, I think they should, and if they brick their device and ebay it, we've struck down a noob in furious vengeance! mwahaha | 12:49 |
| lardman | btw, what happens when I upgrade a package, do I need to push it to -testing again? | 12:49 |
| RST38h | yes | 12:50 |
| lardman | even if it's mine? | 12:50 |
| kynky | always needs to be tested i assume, new version migt have diff bugs | 12:50 |
| RST38h | and it has to be voted upon again | 12:50 |
| lardman | yeah, ok | 12:50 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | But, unfortunately, some genius decides to stick a gsm radio in the n900, making it freakin' noob central | 12:50 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, great attitude :/ | 12:50 |
| Ashenburg | hehe is rootfs the disk you're not suppose to fill up? | 12:51 |
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| lardman | root filesystem, yes | 12:51 |
| kynky | gsm radio is well handy, 3.5g data pretty good for connectivity | 12:51 |
| Ashenburg | no more installs for a while then, it's at 95% :p | 12:51 |
| lardman | works well for me | 12:51 |
| johnx | Ashenburg, yeah. the root fs, aka '/' | 12:51 |
| lardman | Ashenburg: :) | 12:51 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | johnx, hell yes :) death to noobs! | 12:52 |
| kynky | Ashenburg, sometimes a reboot clears space, but dont rely on it | 12:52 |
| lardman | Gadgetoid_iMac: Although I would probably agree with your sentiment, this is supposed to be a fairly mainstream device, not something sold with a warning that you must hack | 12:52 |
| lardman | therefore, users need to be protected from dangerous things | 12:52 |
| Dantonic | is there a way to turn off GSM only and keep the wifi connection on the N900? | 12:53 |
| lardman | tho I also scoff at children having to hold their mothers' hands when crossing the road, how will they ever learn! ;) | 12:53 |
| lardman | Dantonic: take out the sim? | 12:53 |
| Dantonic | other than that | 12:53 |
| Dantonic | lardman, | 12:53 |
| sejo | someone got witter working? | 12:53 |
| Dantonic | idk a command to turn it off maybe? | 12:54 |
| kynky | xda-developer community for htc phones hich are so called mainstream devices, was a very hackish community | 12:54 |
| lardman | Dantonic: there probably is one, I don't know it though | 12:54 |
| * sejo needs to setup a 32bit vbox so he can develop an iednti.ca client | 12:54 | |
| Ashenburg | fantastic, it's down to 80% now, rebooting did the trick. Cheers :) | 12:54 |
| kynky | Dantonic, you can take sim card out of n900, but on n900 i have it so it only automatically connects to wifi networks | 12:54 |
| johnx | kynky, yup. but there was a "hacker" community and more regular forums I'd imagine. Since maemo is all in one place we do need to be a little conscious of new users | 12:55 |
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| kynky | Ashenburg, mine is on 80%, about 40mb free, which is what im told is about normal | 12:55 |
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| Dantonic | kynky, I would like the option to turn the GSM radio off all together, IT would be handy in the event that I want my phone offline, but still want to use the device to browse the internet at home for example | 12:56 |
| kynky | johnx not a problem wit that, just sometimes a bit frustrating to get info, just needs more searching skills :) | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | actually THATS freaky. No way to switch modem separately | 12:56 |
| lardman | for the Android/etc devices you have to distribute your app via their store, which would tend to mean your apps work | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Dantonic, at least you can skip the pin dialog. this will dgive you gsm offline | 12:58 |
| johnx | kynky, it's just important to add a little disclaimer before suggesting that someone get root and go around running rm -rf /foo or enabling extras-devel, and redpill mode and replacing system libs | 12:58 |
| sejo | johnx: do you have a skype login button? I only see a save | 12:58 |
| kynky | you can easily switch between connections | 12:58 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | lardman nobody in IRC can really be THAT big a noob anyway, this isn't Palringo | 12:58 |
| johnx | sejo, I don't use skype | 12:58 |
| lardman | we're not talking about irc though, we're talking about TMO probably | 12:59 |
| lardman | or perhaps we are talking about irc | 12:59 |
| lardman | in any case people need to know what they're getting into | 12:59 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, it's not like it takes more than 20 characters to add a little warning | 12:59 |
| Dantonic | DocScrutinizer51, the pin dialog? | 12:59 |
| lardman | e.g. If I'd come from an Android bg, I might have no clue about being able to break things with my install, etc | 12:59 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | What, johnx, and wear the letters off my keyboard!? | 12:59 |
| lardman | but I could well still use irc | 12:59 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, letters on keyboards are for n00bs :D | 13:00 |
| johnx | like training wheels on a motorcycle | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Dantonic, some sim needs a pin | 13:00 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | johnx touche, but the no letters keyboard doesn't have an apple key | 13:00 |
| * Gadgetoid_iMac let's that sink in for a minute | 13:00 | |
| johnx | Gadgetoid_iMac, pssh. Everyone knows Microsoft makes the best keyboards anyways | 13:00 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Microsoft make bent keyboards... I'll grant them that | 13:01 |
| Myrtti | microsoft can do one thing right: hardware | 13:01 |
| Dantonic | DocScrutinizer51, oh I see what you mean... but I'm sure there's a way to disable the radio, just by killing some process or somethign? | 13:01 |
| Dantonic | I guess I'll wait for someone to come up with it :P | 13:02 |
| * johnx looks at his MS "basic" keyboard. Yeah. I've lost most of the color on the left-ctrl as well as lots around WASD and XC | 13:02 | |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Not always Myrtti, but the Notebook Mouse 5000 and their new mobile bluetooth keyboard (with separate wireless numpad) are very good | 13:02 |
| Dantonic | any of you guys using IRC on the N900? and if so what are you using? | 13:02 |
| Ashenburg | irssi | 13:02 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Case in point: the xbox360, I own two, but they're horrible squashed marshmallows with ungainly huge external power supplies that make too much noise | 13:03 |
| johnx | Dantonic, xchat | 13:03 |
| Dantonic | hmm johnx I installed xchat but couldn't get it to connect | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sure there is. send AT+FUN=0 to the modem | 13:03 |
| Dantonic | wouldn't connect to server | 13:03 |
| ManuelSE | how CAN we monitor network traffic in statusbar? | 13:03 |
| Dantonic | I've never used irssi | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Dantonic, ^ | 13:04 |
| sejo | LOL I just had tu put myself online in the availability section :p | 13:04 |
| ManuelSE | i mean too see if i am downloading | 13:04 |
| ManuelSE | helo | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Dantonic, xchat | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I want status light bars. | 13:04 |
| Dantonic | DocScrutinizer51, AT+FUN=0 how do I send that to the modem? | 13:04 |
| johnx | anyways. time for me to sleep. 'night all | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Status light to do that | 13:04 |
| ManuelSE | cu | 13:04 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Sheeesh, I can't believe my 2 year old is demanding a "jacket potato with cheese" | 13:04 |
| Dantonic | DocScrutinizer51, is that to kill the gsm radio? | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Kids need a highish fat diet | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Dantonic, if only I knew ;-P | 13:05 |
| ManuelSE | hahh | 13:05 |
| Dantonic | LOL | 13:05 |
| Dantonic | don't mess with me I'll believe anything you say! | 13:05 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I'm not sure we've got any baking potatoes... i wonder if I could make mini bakies with new potatoes | 13:05 |
| Dantonic | :P | 13:05 |
| Myrtti | I'll teach mine to eat black pudding á la Tampere | 13:05 |
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| Myrtti | if I ever get kids | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Dantonic, yes somewhat. though there are beteter cmds | 13:05 |
| Gadgetoid | aha big potatoes! | 13:05 |
| ManuelSE | arent all potatos bakable? | 13:06 |
| lardman | some bake better than others | 13:06 |
| * SpeedEvil passes Myrtti a net. | 13:06 | |
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| Myrtti | SpeedEvil: ? | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I've never seen a bad baked potato. | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Dantonic, it,s nbeen suggested modem is at /dev/ttySx | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Some are better than others. | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Myrtti: To catch them with! | 13:06 |
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| lardman | hmm, libgmp is broken in extras-devel, don't try installing it | 13:07 |
| SpeedEvil | how broken? | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also there are reports of ppl actually sending Atcmds to the modem | 13:07 |
| lardman | installs to wrong place | 13:07 |
| lardman | so pretty terminal | 13:08 |
| lardman | dh_install -plibgmp3-dev -Xgmp-mparam.h build/gmp*.h $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/include | 13:09 |
| lardman | I think it was that line | 13:09 |
| lardman | does the bit at the end tell it where to install inside the package? | 13:09 |
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| lardman | in which case that is wrong | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Dantonic, see trac ticket about USSD / numbers starting with * | 13:09 |
| sejo | someone using witter here? | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bbl | 13:10 |
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| lardman | will try this instead dh_install --sourcedir=$(CURDIR)/build -plibgmp3-dev -Xgmp-mparam.h usr/include/gmp*.h | 13:10 |
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| lardman | my word QEmu is a cpu hog | 13:12 |
| homeasvs_ | anyone have an idea how I can work around/fix qemu missing syscall 242 for arm ? | 13:12 |
| homeasvs_ | it makes my armel build for erlang hang | 13:13 |
| lardman | upgrade qemu? | 13:13 |
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| lardman | homeasvs_: which sdk are you on? | 13:14 |
| lardman | or you can use cpu transparency of course | 13:14 |
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| homeasvs_ | lardman, fremantle 5.0 | 13:14 |
| homeasvs_ | lardman, for that I need an arm device, right ? | 13:14 |
| homeasvs_ | lardman, can I then use that to build debs ? | 13:14 |
| lardman | yep | 13:15 |
| lardman | beagleboard or n900 would do I guess | 13:15 |
| lardman | are there no patches to the erlang stuff to avoid using that call? | 13:15 |
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| glezos | zerojay, hey! Are you guys having fun there? | 13:16 |
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| lardman | actually, and I don;t know what causes that syscall to be used, but you might be able to change the build params to build for e.g. a less specific cpu and get rid | 13:16 |
| lardman | you'll need to work out where it's coming from though | 13:16 |
| xorAxAx | so, the n900 gps is not usable without net connection? | 13:18 |
| tigert | hmm | 13:18 |
| GAN900 | More photos on flickr. | 13:18 |
| xorAxAx | or is it just slower to get a fix? if so, how many minutes? | 13:18 |
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| tigert | was Jaffa hacking horizon? | 13:18 |
| homeasvs_ | lardman, that is my other angle, going to look up what it is first and see where it comes from | 13:18 |
| konttori | just slower | 13:18 |
| konttori | yeah, jaffa was working on that | 13:18 |
| GAN900 | xorAxAx, I haven't managed to get one all weekend. | 13:18 |
| * tigert has a half day to hack on graphics | 13:18 | |
| lardman | homeasvs_: ok cool, let us know | 13:18 |
| homeasvs_ | lardman, it's triggered while running erlc | 13:18 |
| xorAxAx | GAN900: OMG | 13:19 |
| GAN900 | xorAxAx, yeah. :/ | 13:19 |
| lardman | hey GAN900 | 13:19 |
| xorAxAx | is it likely that they fix it in a software update? | 13:19 |
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| homeasvs_ | lardman, I believe erlang is a bytecode language, so possibly I could create a devkit instead, avoiding arm altogether | 13:19 |
| GAN900 | Hey, lardman. | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | xorAxAx: go vote for the bug | 13:20 |
| lardman | you may find that by targeting something other than the default arm11, it will go away | 13:20 |
| lardman | GAN900: how's Spain? | 13:20 |
| GAN900 | lardman, awesome! | 13:20 |
| lardman | cool :) | 13:20 |
| xorAxAx | Stskeeps: url? | 13:20 |
| homeasvs_ | lardman, I don't know much about arm, so I don't know how to switch target yet, but I'll look it up | 13:20 |
| GAN900 | We were out 'til 4 AM last night. | 13:20 |
| lardman | probably feels just like home, same language and all ;) | 13:20 |
| lardman | oh bloody hell | 13:21 |
| GAN900 | Ehehe | 13:21 |
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| GAN900 | Bunch of drunk Maemo folks on the metro. | 13:21 |
| GAN900 | "It's about the people." | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | xorAxAx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 - i personally think they should 1) allow N810 style AGPS (plot in on a map where you are) or 2) actually caching SUPL data | 13:21 |
| povbot` | Bug 5337: Can't get GPS lock without network connection | 13:21 |
| tigert | =) | 13:21 |
| tigert | GAN900: well, it is =) | 13:22 |
| tigert | GAN900: who would put up with this shit without the people? :D | 13:22 |
| tigert | sure the gadgets help a bit :) | 13:22 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | I installed Starcraft on my N810, was getting tired of Diablo | 13:23 |
| sejo | what is the resolution for the n900? | 13:23 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | 800*480 | 13:23 |
| sejo | thx | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | Gadgetoid_iMac: i wouldn't mind starcraft on my n810. | 13:23 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Milestone is 853*something isn't it | 13:23 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Stskeeps wouldn't that be lovely :D | 13:23 |
| ashenburger | seriously? diablo runs on the 810? is the project still alive? (i.e any chance of it seeing a fremantle release)? | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | ashenburger: diablo is maemo 4.1.2 | 13:24 |
| * Gadgetoid_iMac listens for the sound of his terrible joke wooshing over ashenburger's head | 13:24 | |
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| GAN900 | tigert, no, I agree 100% it's just mildly funny applying that to a bunch of drunk people on themtraon. *g* | 13:26 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Implementing a page class in php with an isPostBack function is, perhaps, a little bit sad... | 13:26 |
| ashenburger | oops, guess I got a bit carried away there :p | 13:26 |
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| ashenburger | I did see a Baldur's Gate on an 810 though :) | 13:26 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | We'd all love Diablo and Starcraft on our portables, Ashenburger... they're one of the holy grail | 13:26 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | I did an article covering all the lovely games I could get to run on my Samsung NC10, but it's just not pocketable | 13:27 |
| tigert | GAN900: yeah, I know | 13:27 |
| tigert | I knew you agreed too | 13:27 |
| tigert | GAN900: I can imagine the scene very well =) | 13:28 |
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| tigert | given the good meal and company at the restaurant earlier :) | 13:28 |
| GAN900 | Er, s/themtraon/the metro/ | 13:28 |
| sejo | is there a way to change the wallpaper? | 13:28 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 13:28 |
| cehteh | yes | 13:28 |
| sejo | and how would that be? | 13:29 |
| sejo | :p | 13:29 |
| homeasvs_ | lardmin, ok, it configures by default for target arm-linux-gnueabi | 13:29 |
| homeasvs_ | lardman, how can I see a list of alternative targets, and which one would you recommend instead ? | 13:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | click on hte empty desktop. Click the 'gear' - click the menu area to get 'change wallpaper' | 13:30 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | Damn you Disney Channel, damn you, now I want to slip Demi Lovato the sausage too | 13:30 |
| tigert | damn | 13:30 |
| tigert | BBC is so smart | 13:30 |
| tigert | "this podcast is available only in the UK" | 13:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Why damn you? | 13:31 |
| tigert | so isnt the point of podcasting partly that you can get it when you are travelling | 13:31 |
| SpeedEvil | tigert: you should get with the times! | 13:31 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | SpeedEvil, there's only so many 17 year old Disney stars I can have pillows of before my wife gets suspicious | 13:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | VPN out of the UK so the government can't log you, VPN in so you can get UK content when abroad. | 13:32 |
| tigert | SpeedEvil: yeah :D | 13:32 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I mean, she raised an eyebrow when I added Zac Efron | 13:32 |
| sejo | thx SpeedEvil | 13:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, found the pickle file? | 13:38 |
| Termana | Gadgetoid_iMac: If I was your wife and you put in a Zac Efron pillow - I'd be raising eyebrows as well | 13:38 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | Termana, I was kidding... it was a Depp pillow | 13:39 |
| Termana | Just as bad | 13:39 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Actually, I wonder if there are Depp pillows... I'm secure enough about my sexuality to want one of those | 13:39 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Then I can stick my hand inside it, and use it as a Depp puppet | 13:40 |
| Termana | But is your wife secure enough of your sexuality? | 13:40 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | "I didn't dutch oven you, it was Depp!" | 13:40 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | That's a good question... | 13:40 |
| lardman | this is what happens when people start using Apple products | 13:41 |
| homeasvs_ | lardman, #define __NR_sched_getaffinity 242 <-- sounds like one I could live without if it is implemented as a noop | 13:41 |
| Myrtti | tragedy of my life, my oven baking pan fits only one ready made pizza or pizza base | 13:41 |
| lardman | homeasvs_: no idea I'm afraid | 13:42 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes people w/ n900s | 13:42 | |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | That may be true lardman | 13:42 |
| lardman | you looking at the qemu source here? | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman? :) | 13:42 |
| lardman | hi timeless_mbp | 13:42 |
| homeasvs_ | lardman, any idea about the hosts I could use instead of my arm-linux-gbeu one ? | 13:42 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | HAI timeless_mbp! | 13:42 |
| timeless_mbp | hello | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: so.... got time to play? :) | 13:43 |
| lardman | homeasvs_: you might find a later version of qemu, or use the cpu transparency, but you'll need a device then | 13:43 |
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| lardman | timeless_mbp: not really, how long will it take? | 13:43 |
| ruskie | lo | 13:43 |
| lardman | am testing code atm | 13:43 |
| Termana | lardman - sounds viable (re: apple products and the discussion) - I'm using OS X at the moment as well | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: you can install and use it recreationally | 13:43 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I'm "working" | 13:43 |
| Termana | Gadgetoid_iMac: Working on your communication abilities? | 13:44 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: go on then | 13:44 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Termana I hope not! I wouldn't be much cop as a "journalist" otherwise, I'm writing some lovely PHP | 13:44 |
| homeasvs_ | cool, erlang's configure is testing for presence of those syscalls | 13:47 |
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| homeasvs_ | so if I fake that out, tell it it's not there, I should be able to build | 13:47 |
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| Vratha | hello there | 13:48 |
| Vratha | just got my n900 and have been playing around with it | 13:48 |
| Vratha | pretty spiffy device | 13:48 |
| Vratha | still trying to figure out how to tether | 13:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: no - oddly | 13:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | how do i undo a thumbs down? | 13:53 |
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| ruskie | I'm trying to roll my own modest package but I'm getting: checking for MODEST_GSTUFF... configure: error: The pkg-config script could not be found or is too old. Make sure it is in your PATH or set the PKG_CONFIG environment variable to the full path to pkg-config. - of course this inside of ... | 14:02 |
| ruskie | ... scratchbox... I've already succesfully rolled my own zsh and tinymail so not really sure what's wrong... | 14:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | is pkg-config installed? | 14:02 |
| ruskie | yes | 14:02 |
| ruskie | which pkg-config | 14:02 |
| ruskie | unless it needs to be somewhere else as well | 14:03 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Söndagen! | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: noatime, noMtime?? | 14:03 |
| ruskie | config.log isn't much help in this case... and it's only on MODEST_GSTUFF that it's failing :( | 14:03 |
| Vratha | sweet; got the n900 tethering via my mac | 14:03 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | Bluetooth, Vratha? | 14:04 |
| Vratha | nah, usb | 14:04 |
| Vratha | don't know how to do it via bt | 14:04 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | OO, even better | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: and not having time to fiddle with it | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | so, can someone talk me though the maemo boot sequence? :) | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: you pressw th | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | the button, and it boots | 14:04 |
| Vratha | Gadgetoid_iMac: heh, yeah, but i notice t-mobile isn't as fast as when i tried my iphone with a jailbreak | 14:04 |
| ashenburger | hmm is there any disadvantages to connecting to an adhoc wifi network? power consumtion being the big issue | 14:04 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Well, you see some dots, then a handshake... and up comes Maemo... pretty simply really timeless_mbp | 14:04 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: add it to the init.d scripts perhaps? | 14:04 |
| Vratha | at&t i guess can claim the speed crown there | 14:04 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: maemo uses upstart afaiu | 14:05 |
| lardman | lol | 14:05 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | You said it ashenburger, chews through power like there's no tomorrow | 14:05 |
| lardman | oh well | 14:05 |
| lardman | same sort of thing I guess though | 14:05 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Even a dedicated device like the Mifi can only offer internet via Wifi for about 4.5 hours | 14:05 |
| timeless_mbp | oh sure | 14:05 |
| timeless_mbp | but i probably could figure out init.d :) | 14:05 |
| ruskie | Gadgetoid_iMac, I'd say that's due to a poor battery ;) | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | well there's still /etc/init.d/foo* | 14:06 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | They're 1530mAh batteries ruskie, so you could be right- I've got 3 of 'em though | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 14:07 |
| ruskie | Gadgetoid_iMac, :) I'd like a an 8kmAh battery for such a device ;) | 14:07 |
| timeless_mbp | is it evil to have a script that deletes itself from /etc/init.d/ ? :) | 14:07 |
| * ruskie goes back to hammering away at trying to build modest... | 14:07 | |
| ashenburger | oh well on the upside it looks like the n900 is working, but my wifi router is not :/ | 14:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | timeless_mbp: can't see severy problems when done correctly | 14:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh brother | 14:09 |
| timeless_mbp | i bet i don't have access to /opt at this point | 14:09 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I did think, ruskie, that it would be better with a belt clip and a fahookin' massive battery.. there's no real need for it to be small. If you're carrying a freakin' router around to give yourself internet access then you've probably got a good sized bag | 14:10 |
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| lardman | timeless_mbp: have spotted a bug in your strings | 14:10 |
| lardman | you have "Cell" for "Mobile", the former means nothing | 14:11 |
| timeless_mbp | ouch | 14:11 |
| timeless_mbp | sad that you're the first person to spot that | 14:11 |
| lardman | You've also changed "Work" to "Business", the latter is preferable imo | 14:11 |
| timeless_mbp | clearly engb isn't tested heavily | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Cellphone is a recognised term | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Cell too | 14:12 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: it's wrong for engb | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | but it will get you looked at wierdly. | 14:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and i know better | 14:12 |
| lardman | Mobile is more normal | 14:12 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: #merl10n please | 14:12 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | "Cell"phone is quite an obtusely technical term for such a ubiquitous gadget | 14:12 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | It's like calling a car, a Combustiontorotarymotionvehicle | 14:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | Gadgetoid_iMac: enough | 14:13 |
| timeless_mbp | i screwed up. bad merge | 14:13 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I mean timeless_mbp, we should force americans to say "mobile phone" too! | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Gadgetoid_iMac: linear, unless you're doing it wrong. | 14:14 |
| derf | Gadgetoid_iMac: Good luck with that. | 14:14 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | What can I say SpeedEvil.. I can only drive in circles... | 14:14 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | It's easy derf, we just sneak it in via a new HTML tag | 14:14 |
| aquatix | :) | 14:15 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | Hmm I need a little porting project I can fiddle with on Maemo, I'd probably be in over my head... getting things to work properly on Dingux was pain enough | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Gadgetoid: wine+qemu? :) | 14:19 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Hahaha | 14:20 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Yeah... starcraft in slideshow mode, that's a worthy goal | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Make the keyboard lights flash to indicate network traffic | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Or the notification light | 14:21 |
| _JP_ | port KeePassX, I could really use it :) | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | 'KITT' mode for the keyboard lights. (the 6 lights are independant) | 14:21 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Really? | 14:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes. | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | there are 6 lights across the keyboard all independant. | 14:22 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Sounds like a register prodding adventure, or something | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | and with seperate brightnesses | 14:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | /sys/class/LED/lp5???/*kb* | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | or something like that | 14:22 |
| cehteh | hehe i want a capacitative keyboard! | 14:22 |
| homeasvs_ | is there an up-to-date guide for setting up cpu transparency ? can only find stuff for maemo 4 | 14:23 |
| cehteh | light by proximity :P | 14:23 |
| oops6_4 | Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 | 14:23 |
| homeasvs_ | trying to figure out how to use sbrsh-conf | 14:23 |
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| cehteh | what color is the keyboard light? | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | white | 14:23 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | interesting /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1 - kb6 | 14:23 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | HAHAHA | 14:24 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | tw14030:vibrator | 14:24 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I'm so immature | 14:24 |
| cehteh | you can control the vibrators bightness :) | 14:24 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | dare I echo 1 >> brightness ? | 14:25 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | I don't know what the fsck I'm doing | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | 1 doesn't make it vibrate | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | the threshold on the way up is about 20, and down is about 14 | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | (rotation rather - vibration at this speed cannot be felt) | 14:26 |
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| Corsac | sounds like fun | 14:26 |
| timeless_mbp | !summon qwerty | 14:27 |
| cehteh | you prolly want to tune that to be in resonance with the device mass | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | You can optimise for accelleration through the accellerometers | 14:27 |
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| Gadgetoid_iMac | Lord knows I've probably borked something up now | 14:29 |
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| mece | hey | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: your profund knowledge about vibrator behaviour makes me wonder... | 14:37 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Vibrator brightness, for sharing in the dark | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | how can you tell without disassembling the device? | 14:38 |
| oops6_4 | Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 ? | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: you can hear the pwm driving signal modulated by the motor rotation | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: spoken like a real EE ;-D | 14:40 |
| _JP_ | I was told that SSHFS is in extras-testing, but I cant find it. Or is it in devel? | 14:41 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Shh, FS! | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: is there any summary of the /sys and maybe /dev nodes? | 14:42 |
| Gadgetoid_iMac | Neither can I, _JP_, it must have an obscure name | 14:43 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: no - I was planning on populating the hardware links I made on the n900 page with them | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Or not AFAIK | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, well the kbd-leds were a nice kickoff | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm impressed with the battery life - Coming up on 21h active with wifi on, doing a while (sleep 20) in bash | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | and logging battery level | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | With maybe an hours use in that time too | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, I had 23h with 50% lightwight use incl backlight and 100% wifi and IRC | 14:50 |
| _JP_ | Gadgetoid_iMac: Found it in extras-devel, seems I was misinformed it being in testing... | 14:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, to me it seemed like reported bat charge in mAh was quite jumpy. Like to share your bat log? | 14:57 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 14:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here willing to admit some degree of familiarity with hildon/gtk? | 14:58 |
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| Dang3rMaus | hehe | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: very | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/Sat%20Dec%20%205%2017:20:10%20GMT%202009 | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | format should be obvcious | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil, hal reports 8 "unit: bars". Thismcorresponds with batget (watching it charge). But I couldn't make a story out of max_charge / 8 or similar equations | 15:03 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer51: go check out toggles_w's open hald-addon-bme | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | he | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Stskeeps, where to find? | 15:04 |
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| Stskeeps | http://gitorious.org/mer-toggles/hald-addon-bme | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thanks | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | not sure if protocol changed in rx-51 though | 15:05 |
| GAN900 | X-Fade, ping? | 15:05 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, you wouldn't happen to know where mediawiki resides? | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | the sw? | 15:06 |
| GAN900 | Yeah | 15:06 |
| GAN900 | dneary wants access. | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | ah - no idea | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | i don't have access to maemo.org servers | 15:06 |
| GAN900 | We need to play with the default stylesheets. | 15:07 |
| GAN900 | Bleh, how useless can you get. :P | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | sitting in my couch and working - very! | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | on, that is | 15:07 |
| GAN900 | Unless it's a very fluffy couch. | 15:07 |
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| Ceron^ | when will i abe able to video chat | 15:10 |
| Ceron^ | trough skype | 15:10 |
| Ceron^ | with n900? | 15:10 |
| Ceron^ | i would want that feature :D | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: shiiiit that's weird! | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | got the log in kwrite and speeding thru a mostly static screen with ^f / F3 /shift-F3 | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | feels like timemachine | 15:14 |
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| Gadgetoid | hmm if only the wiimote analogue worked with quake | 15:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - it's bluetooth - you have hte source | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: Am I right this hald-addon-bme is basically the code that creates what we see in lshal for battery status? | 15:21 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: right, we made a open implementation that pokes BME (please don't investigate anything else than the information gathering stuff we put up) | 15:22 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah thanks | 15:23 |
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| oops6_42 | Hi I have compiled my won qt application in scratchobox and tested on scratchbox simulator now how can I test it actually on my device I have n810 ? | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | oops6_42: did you make a .deb package? | 15:23 |
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| * sivang likes to get .debs for Xmas! | 15:24 | |
| sivang | :) | 15:24 |
| oops6_42 | Stskeeps: no how to so that at is that necessary? | 15:24 |
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| sivang | guys, what the way to install a bash on the Maemo SDK ? | 15:24 |
| sivang | scratchbox, for that matter | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: sdk should already have bash | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | oops6_42: well, either that or you can copy the binary manually and install needed libs on device | 15:24 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: where do I access it from? I didn't see it on the apps list | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: dpkg -l | 15:25 |
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| Stskeeps | sivang: i'm quite sure scratchbox has bash | 15:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:25 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: right, but I want to run it from the Xephyr session | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: this is information recovery ministery here. No plans to go beyond what you deliver in hald-addon-bme ;-P | 15:25 |
| ManuelSE | mmpc - music player client daemon is the greatest app on maemo | 15:25 |
| ManuelSE | now i control the heavenly sounds through the whole house | 15:25 |
| ManuelSE | needs to support multichannel volume tho | 15:26 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: from within the session, e.g. be able to run apps from bash and see the result whilst developing using Qt | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: osso-xterm? :P | 15:26 |
| ManuelSE | np don kosaken chor | 15:26 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: /me checks | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | X-Terminal, that is | 15:26 |
| oops6_42 | Stskeeps: and to install need lib on the device I need internet on my device that what I don't have currently so I think debpackage is good idea but can you redirect me to the link where I can get the steps | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | oops6_42: copy the binary to your device over mass storage and chmod +x it when copied into /home/user..? | 15:27 |
| oops6_42 | Stskeeps: ok I will try | 15:28 |
| jebba | hmm. woke up to a hung fone. Left a web page with qik.com open. Probably flash leaking all night or something. My alarm did go off though, at least. | 15:28 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: I have to setup the SDK on this machine. I set it up on my netbook first which worked great except for some sluggines | 15:28 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: I will let you in a acouple of minutes if I can find it on the apps list | 15:28 |
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| sivang | what is the VDSO paramter? | 15:29 |
| sivang | why need it be set for scratchbox ? | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: you know GTA02 battery? Is BL-5J similar CC-chip design, or is it a "stupid" bat like BL-5C and the calculations are done in N900 hardware? | 15:29 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a 1G SD card in. 'backup' says the filesystem is read-only. It's a mounted vfat fs, mounted rw. Thoughts? | 15:30 |
| sivang | ah! vsyscall page | 15:30 |
| sivang | :) | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i don't know. battery handling is done in software | 15:30 |
| oops6_42 | Stskeeps: Thanks man working | 15:30 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: yeah. spend $2 and get a 4G sd :) | 15:31 |
| jebba | underneath the battery (which i just had to yank....), there are three sets of pins on other motherboard that are visible. They look like they might be serial or usb or jtag or .... anyone know? | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: It needs 4? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, I know. But e.g. where is the NTC to probe battemp. Where's the capacity calculated? | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | jebba: For $10, you may be able to find out | 15:31 |
| jebba | haha | 15:31 |
| jebba | how's that? | 15:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | jebba: there is a site with the level 4 manual available | 15:31 |
| sivang | hey jebba | 15:31 |
| Macer | haha | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | which can contain schematics | 15:32 |
| sivang | jebba: what's up? | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: aah, sorry to nag. You told you don't know | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | but it's not free | 15:32 |
| jebba | hey sivang | 15:32 |
| Macer | i'm updating macports | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: also - 4G for $2 - where? | 15:32 |
| sivang | jebba: you a nokian ? :) | 15:32 |
| Macer | :) | 15:32 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: i was teasing | 15:32 |
| jebba | sivang: i have an n900 but dont work there if that's what you're asking | 15:32 |
| Macer | although i managed to buy a 4G from tigerdirect with adapters for like $10 | 15:32 |
| sivang | jebba: yes, I was wondering :) | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. /me is having extreme cashflow problems ATM. | 15:33 |
| Arkenoi | is there a note taking application that allows inserting sketches (and maybe even camera shots)? the point is taking notes quickly.. | 15:33 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: join the club :) | 15:33 |
| sivang | Arkenoi: we should take Tomboy and make it a such | 15:33 |
| sivang | Arkenoi: howeer, not sure of mono could be ported to ARM | 15:33 |
| sivang | armel, for that matter | 15:33 |
| sivang | Arkenoi: I've had this thoughts for mono for long now | 15:34 |
| sivang | err | 15:34 |
| sivang | s/mono/Tomboy/ | 15:34 |
| sejo | hmm anyone having bad voice calls with sip? | 15:34 |
| jebba | sivang: there is conboy, which is tomboy in c | 15:34 |
| sivang | hmm, the installer should have better progress represetation for the download process of the scratchbox debs | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | jebba: http://www.google.de/search?q=N900_RX-51_SM_L3%264.pdf | 15:35 |
| jebba | sejo: i tried to set up my ekiga.net account with it, but couldn't get it going. I could make a SIP call *into* the fone when it was runnign asterisk :) | 15:35 |
| * Arkenoi uses sip as primary callout method when wifi is available, works even better than GSM ;-) | 15:35 | |
| sivang | jebba: ah, so mind some dirty work, prolem solved :) | 15:35 |
| sejo | jebba I got it working but bad ;uality | 15:35 |
| sejo | same with skype | 15:35 |
| sivang | jebba: do you think we could make it link against PyObjects so we could use python scripting to add the multimedia functionality ? | 15:35 |
| sejo | Arkenoi: thx hope it's on the client end then | 15:36 |
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| sejo | jebba: I just added sip account with nick@ekiga.net and works great | 15:36 |
| jebba | sivang: not sure, i've never even run conboy | 15:36 |
| Macer | anybody here ever use osx as an actual server? | 15:36 |
| tigert | sejo: its funny, I have several friends wiht ekiga accounts.. | 15:37 |
| jebba | sejo: I tried just calling 500@ekiga.net (echo test iirc). That work for you? | 15:37 |
| sivang | jebba: not to mention on the N900 right? :) | 15:37 |
| tigert | they never seem to have a working setup on desktop linux :) | 15:37 |
| jebba | ya ;) | 15:37 |
| tigert | "oops, sorry cannot talk, sound is broken" :D | 15:37 |
| jebba | i have it working ok on desktop | 15:37 |
| tigert | luckily it works fine on N900 | 15:37 |
| tigert | linux desktop sound stuff seems to have issues still | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm using sip://number@sipgate.de since a week now. Works great for inbound as well | 15:38 |
| sivang | tigert: you on a tablet ? | 15:38 |
| sejo | jebba doesn't connect | 15:38 |
| sivang | err, netbook ? | 15:38 |
| tigert | sivang: N900 and laptop now | 15:38 |
| sven-tek | YES, java runs on my N800. I can finally use my fav app pauker on my tablet PC. YES YES YES | 15:38 |
| tigert | but going for lunch now | 15:38 |
| jebba | DocScrutinizer hmm. why dont htey just make that info public? hmm | 15:38 |
| sivang | tigert: ah | 15:38 |
| jebba | sejo: ok, then maybe sip was working but ekiga is having probs with their server. Know a test url for digium offhand? I used to run a asterisk server for a couple years, but no more. | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | sven-tek: what did you install? | 15:39 |
| sivang | tigert: The netbooks are very poor. Compaq Mini with nVidia ION are much better, if to say the least. | 15:39 |
| sven-tek | openjdk-6-cacao-jre | 15:39 |
| sejo | jebba dunno /100 | 15:39 |
| Arkenoi | jebba: "unable to estabilish connection". | 15:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jebba: policy | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | sven-tek: oh cool | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | sven-tek: under maemo or easy debian? | 15:40 |
| sivang | tigert: but the n900 is cool | 15:40 |
| Arkenoi | my registar is tario.net (sipnet.ru domain) | 15:40 |
| sejo | what stun does it use? | 15:41 |
| sven-tek | It runs under maemo. It has still some ugly fonts, but its usable. I use pauker a lot for learning, its greatest app ever for learning a language or anything you want to remember | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | sven-tek: could you document your steps? | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | others might find it interesting | 15:41 |
| sven-tek | nothing special done. just apt-getted the jre and then start pauker with "java -jar pauker-1.8.jar" | 15:42 |
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| Stskeeps | apt-getted from where? :P | 15:42 |
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| sven-tek | can i see the repository it was installed from with any debian tool? | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | apt-cache show | 15:44 |
| sven-tek | Filename: pool/maemo4.0/misc/openjdk-6-cacao-jre_6b14-r0_armel.deb | 15:44 |
| sven-tek | i think its from the jalimo.evolvis.org/repository/maemo | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | ah, jalimo | 15:45 |
| sven-tek | months ago i gave up running pauker... great | 15:46 |
| loft306 | Where yo look for the devices phone number? | 15:46 |
| loft306 | *to | 15:47 |
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| jebba | here's a ton of test numbers: http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Fun_Numbers | 15:49 |
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| loft306 | heh | 15:50 |
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| jebba | sejo: how do you have your ekiga account set up on the n900? I can connect to some places, but never get audio (I can with ekiga on my laptop, but not on the fone) | 15:55 |
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| sejo | jebba can't test now | 16:00 |
| sejo | skype works again :p | 16:00 |
| sejo | pretty good even | 16:01 |
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| sven-tek | Is easy debian a good alternative to maemo on N800? | 16:05 |
| sven-tek | Is there an image to install it somewhere? | 16:05 |
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| valdyn | sven-tek: i dont think its an alternative at all | 16:05 |
| sven-tek | okay, i dont want to hack but use it | 16:06 |
| valdyn | sven-tek: its just a way to use software from the debian armel repository | 16:06 |
| sven-tek | ah okay | 16:06 |
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| sivang | valdyn: so it probably lacks the nokia prop stuff and the kernel patches to make it work with PM and related? | 16:08 |
| sivang | valdyn: re: easy debian | 16:08 |
| valdyn | sivang: its not a seperate system | 16:08 |
| naxxatoe | does anyone know if ruby and libruby works on the maemo 5 build for n900? | 16:08 |
| loft306 | http://www.google.com/goog411/ | 16:09 |
| valdyn | sivang: debian chroot environment to install and run debian applications from | 16:09 |
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| sivang | valdyn: ah, nice so no changes to the setup. | 16:10 |
| valdyn | sivang: yea, no changes to maemo | 16:10 |
| sivang | valdyn: does it have to be a chroot ? | 16:11 |
| valdyn | sivang: yes | 16:11 |
| sivang | valdyn: for example, if I want to experment with stuff right on the fs | 16:11 |
| iDialekt | Anyone familiar with the 4g LTE stuff? | 16:11 |
| sivang | valdyn: I mean, adding the sources to the general sources.list | 16:11 |
| valdyn | sivang: hmm? do you understand what chroot means? | 16:11 |
| sivang | s/general/host-system/ | 16:11 |
| infobot | sivang meant: valdyn: I mean, adding the sources to the host-system sources.list | 16:11 |
| valdyn | sivang: easydebian has its own sources.list | 16:11 |
| sivang | valdyn: right, I don't want the apps to beconfied to the chroot fs | 16:12 |
| Arkenoi | lte sucks | 16:12 |
| sivang | valdyn: I want them to be able to access the /dev/ stuff | 16:12 |
| sivang | valdyn: sure I can setup loopback for that on the fs's | 16:12 |
| Arkenoi | because lte is to be owned by todays cellular networks ;-) | 16:12 |
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| valdyn | sivang: mount --bind /dev /path/to/chroot/dev | 16:12 |
| * Arkenoi prefers wimax | 16:12 | |
| aquatix | hm, can i launch the appmanager from terminal? maybe i can see why it crashes | 16:12 |
| sivang | valdyn: right, okay | 16:13 |
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| sivang | aquatix: find the desktop launcher file, see what binary it runs and run it | 16:13 |
| valdyn | sivang: but easydebian might already do that for you, i have no idea | 16:13 |
| sivang | valdyn: k, I should check | 16:13 |
| aquatix | sivang: good point | 16:13 |
| sivang | valdyn thanks dude | 16:13 |
| valdyn | http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian | 16:13 |
| iDialekt | ? | 16:14 |
| sivang | aquatix: you might be able to strace the app as well, to see if a system call is the problem | 16:14 |
| sivang | aquatix: but you have to have it installed first | 16:14 |
| aquatix | chicken-egg problem :) | 16:14 |
| aquatix | still have apt of couse | 16:14 |
| sivang | aquatix: :-D | 16:14 |
| aquatix | *course | 16:14 |
| jebba | got SIP going. Had to check "Open Routing" (?) or something (translation from spanish) | 16:15 |
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| Pega88 | hi, i'm working on maemo 5 - nokia N900 development for my school end project, is there maybe some website with a general overview/review of all the does and don't for developing for the N900? | 16:16 |
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| jebba900 | pega88 lots on the wiki | 16:19 |
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| fnordianslippers | test | 16:30 |
| jebba900 | ing | 16:30 |
| fnordianslippers | lish | 16:30 |
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| homeasvs_ | anyone here have a working .sbrsh for fremantle ? | 16:34 |
| homeasvs_ | racking my brain trying to figure out what's wrong with mine, and all the guides have typos and errors | 16:34 |
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| sejo | weird skype works perfect untill I receive an email, then it really starts to stutter | 16:38 |
| sejo | jebba: my sip is sejo@ekiga.net | 16:39 |
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| loft306 | heh | 16:56 |
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| jebba | man, google talk works really well. Just did a cross-hemisphere call and it sounds better than a cell phone call. | 17:02 |
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| sivang | jebba: yes it rocks | 17:06 |
| sivang | jebba: better then skpe | 17:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | um | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | my election thing from dneary was marked as spam | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | it does look like spam | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:20 |
| pekuja | D. Nedry | 17:20 |
| sejo | ooch didn't know galk was that good | 17:21 |
| * sejo sets up | 17:21 | |
| sejo | I noticed that this night my battery wal almost empty | 17:24 |
| andre__ | hmm, does the on-screen virtual keyboard depend on any language settings or is it the same for all of them (except for Russian)? | 17:25 |
| sejo | putting it in offline mode does that help? | 17:25 |
| jebba | gah, i take an image, rotate and crop it in the fone, then select it for a background and it always "un"-rotates it, probably because it reads the EXIF info | 17:26 |
| aquatix | yay, wifi | 17:28 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: eh? | 17:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the onscreen keyboard changes based on some setting in control panel | 17:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the french or spanish keymap should be slightly different from enus | 17:28 |
| homeasvs_ | anyone here have cpu transparency working ? | 17:29 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: wait, which onscreen keyboard? :) | 17:29 |
| cehteh | germany prolly too ... and anyone seen a swiss-german keymap? | 17:29 |
| divinegod | ffdec_h264 is terribly slow. but i have a file that openmax (omx_h264dec) refuses to load.. anyone know what to do? | 17:29 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: none in sales | 17:29 |
| cehteh | worst of all .. so close to german but still so strange :) | 17:29 |
| cehteh | 4 offical languages all with accents :) | 17:30 |
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| andre__ | timeless, virtual one. not character | 17:31 |
| andre__ | the third screen, with all the symbols | 17:31 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: ok | 17:31 |
| timeless_mbp | it's definitely different | 17:31 |
| timeless_mbp | all of them | 17:31 |
| timeless_mbp | the fn-ctrl one is very different for polish :) | 17:31 |
| aquatix | ok, thinkering with themes doesn't work | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | heya MoonTiger | 17:31 |
| aquatix | i think i crashed mer :) | 17:31 |
| timeless_mbp | and the full screen finger keyboard tweaks language to landuage | 17:31 |
| andre__ | cehteh, what's wrong with the german one? | 17:31 |
| timeless_mbp | s/dua/gua/ | 17:31 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: and the full screen finger keyboard tweaks language to language | 17:31 |
| MoonTiger | hey Stskeeps | 17:31 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: i hate the repos | 17:31 |
| timeless_mbp | are you the repo master now? | 17:31 |
| cehteh | andre__: nothing .. i just wonder if swizerland gets an extra oen | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: heck no | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:32 |
| andre__ | oen? | 17:32 |
| cehteh | one | 17:32 |
| odin_ | afnoon all | 17:32 |
| andre__ | for what? | 17:32 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: help me anyway? | 17:32 |
| andre__ | I mean the keyboards are based on languages, not really countries... | 17:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the stupid gettext package is linked against a library it doesn't provide | 17:32 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: um | 17:32 |
| cehteh | are french accents easily available on a german keyboard? | 17:32 |
| timeless_mbp | keyboards are based on regional variants of langauges | 17:33 |
| timeless_mbp | s/aug/uag/ | 17:33 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: keyboards are based on regional variants of languages | 17:33 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 17:33 | |
| * timeless_mbp needs breakfast, lunch, and maybe dinner | 17:33 | |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: gettext package in fremantle is broken | 17:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: is there a bug? | 17:33 |
| andre__ | cehteh, via onscreen special characters keyboard: yes. press bluekey+control | 17:33 |
| timeless_mbp | that's kinda incredibly lame | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: you don't have doctools in your SB target do you? | 17:34 |
| andre__ | cehteh, not on the hardware keys themselves as they are limited and already used by äöü | 17:34 |
| cehteh | andre__: dunno if that pleases french-swiss people | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: um, why do you ask? | 17:34 |
| andre__ | cehteh, french-swiss people should not use a german keyboard layout, but a french one. as easy as that. | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: because normally SB hides this bug from you | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: you can switch the hardware layout in software | 17:34 |
| cehteh | and dont forget about italian-swiss and raetero-romanic (ok they need äöü) | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: well, err | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | what? | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | because my problem is that the .deb i got from the repository is broken | 17:34 |
| andre__ | cehteh, they should use the italian layout. what's the issue? | 17:34 |
| timeless_mbp | which means that my app doesn't work right | 17:35 |
| cehteh | andre__: you didnt seen a offical swiss keyboard layout dont you? | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: there's a devkit for doctools (with gettext etc) for sb1. and that overrides the normal gettext package. normal gettext package is horridly broken lbt discovered the other day | 17:35 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: the keyboard has a way to compose keys | 17:35 |
| cehteh | and french layouts are very different | 17:35 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: i hit the broken gettext package every month or so | 17:35 |
| cehteh | well i am not in swizerland i dont care | 17:35 |
| andre__ | cehteh, there is no official swiss keyboard according to the latest documents I have here, but feel free to explain as Nokia changes everything at least twice per week :) | 17:36 |
| cehteh | haha i dont care | 17:36 |
| cehteh | compass and working GPS would be more important to me :P | 17:36 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: there's a third party package called ukeyboard | 17:37 |
| timeless_mbp | which lets you work w/ others to deal w/ this | 17:37 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: from what I've been hearing in here, GPS doesn't work | 17:37 |
| andre__ | cehteh, Uhm. Going to Settings > Text Input > Hardware keyboard layout there is "Suisse, Schweiz". Damn. Never seen that before. | 17:37 |
| andre__ | uargh | 17:37 |
| cehteh | hehe now you know what i mean? :) | 17:38 |
| andre__ | Bad idea. People should use Italian/German/French layout instead I think | 17:38 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: ask lbt about the back when he's back from bcn | 17:38 |
| Jaffa | tigert: The "Horizon" I was hacking was what's now "Attitude" | 17:38 |
| andre__ | cehteh, not yet as I have not tried it. But feel free to elaborate your issues :) | 17:38 |
| Jaffa | Not the old OS2005/6 Horizon | 17:38 |
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| cehteh | andre__: you are german? | 17:38 |
| andre__ | cehteh, yes, according to my passport :) | 17:39 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: bug, that is | 17:39 |
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| cehteh | well not on the n900 but on a normal keyboard look where some characters are on a swiss layout | 17:39 |
| cehteh | * $ § ... | 17:39 |
| cehteh | no ß .. ok | 17:40 |
| cehteh | forgotten where the {[]} are .. | 17:40 |
| pekuja | nobody needs § | 17:40 |
| pekuja | it's useless | 17:40 |
| pekuja | I hate that they waste a whole key for that on European keyboards | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: compass is a hardware mod. | 17:40 |
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| cehteh | if you ever want to make fun of someone switch his keyboard to swiss german | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | or euro | 17:40 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I think a fairly simple one, if you could open the case, but... | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | normal people just use 200e or 200eur, right? :P | 17:41 |
| pekuja | I'm sure in some European layouts there's something more useful there because they just need more keys in general | 17:41 |
| pekuja | well, euro isn't too bad, because it's behind altgr anyhow | 17:41 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: and then solder it in? :) | 17:41 |
| andre__ | pekuja, as a lawyer i love § :-P | 17:41 |
| pekuja | doesn't really bother me that much | 17:41 |
| pekuja | it's just there if I really need it | 17:41 |
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| pekuja | andre__: I'm sure you do :-P | 17:41 |
| pekuja | andre__: nobody else does ;-) | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: basically | 17:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | cehteh: in parallel with the accelerometer | 17:41 |
| cehteh | hehe | 17:41 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=708 | 17:42 |
| cehteh | yeah and where is the software support for it? | 17:42 |
| pekuja | anyways, I would like to have a US layout for programming, but I'm not sure what the optimal solution would be to fit the scandinavian letters in there | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | It's on the I2C bus - write a driver | 17:42 |
| timeless_mbp | pekuja: optimal solution is to dunk scandinavia into the ocean | 17:42 |
| timeless_mbp | (and take .fi with it) | 17:42 |
| pekuja | well, my laptop has a couple of extra keys because it's a Japanese layout, so I could probably make it work | 17:42 |
| pekuja | timeless_mbp: :-( | 17:42 |
| pekuja | timeless_mbp: not that I have much fondness for my umlauts | 17:43 |
| timeless_mbp | pekuja: hey, don't frown, i'd lose my apt in the process | 17:43 |
| Gadgetoid | ported android yet? | 17:43 |
| zash | Yeah, how's the android-runtime-porting going? | 17:45 |
| zash | Canonical doing that right? | 17:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oops. I meant http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9441 - but anyway. | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | zash: someone was doing it but he threw a religious fit over not having google maps and such "android is not as open as you think" and never published the code.. | 17:46 |
| Gadgetoid | haha I'm just making dirty jokes... android is a sin | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | zash: http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/ -send him an e-mail and poke him to publish | 17:47 |
| Gadgetoid | oo extras-testing failed for a change | 17:47 |
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| * sejo likes bounce | 17:48 | |
| suihkulokki | bounce needs a level editor =) | 17:49 |
| zash | Stskeeps: lol | 17:49 |
| pekuja | zash: android runtime? would that mean running Android apps on Maemo with just a VM or something? | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | bounce++ | 17:49 |
| pekuja | zash: that'd be pretty sweet | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | pekuja: see the page i referred to. | 17:49 |
| sejo | suihkulokki: mhat's the poy ? | 17:49 |
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| sejo | pay | 17:49 |
| zash | pekuja: it's java-ish | 17:49 |
| zash | pekuja: runtime as in the java vm | 17:49 |
| zash | pekuja: except it's not java, but dalvik | 17:49 |
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| pekuja | zash: yeah, I know. if it is portable to Maemo, that's pretty exciting I think | 17:50 |
| pekuja | Stskeeps: thanks | 17:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | I would even pay as much as 3 dollars for more levels on bounce. | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if they'll be on ovi store | 17:52 |
| kynky | 3 levels on bounce? thought the first icon was just for video | 17:53 |
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| jebba | why doesn't this work? It's preventing me from removing fotos: `chmod u+w 2006-05-26/` (in MyDocs/.images subdir) | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: it's FAT | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | kynky: well - yes | 17:53 |
| jebba | Stskeeps: but other dirs in there are +w | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: that's kinda weird | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: submit a bug? | 17:54 |
| jebba | andre__: ? ^^ | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | It's FAT as it has to be to allow it to work in mass storage mode with most PCs | 17:54 |
| kynky | hope not to long for koffice on n900 | 17:54 |
| jebba | SpeedEvil: but then why are other dirs +w ok? | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | VFAT does not support most attributes | 17:55 |
| jebba | i have a subdir with one dir +w and the others are -w | 17:55 |
| jebba | ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ ls -l | 17:55 |
| jebba | drwxrwxrwx 2 user root 65536 Dec 6 12:38 2005 | 17:55 |
| jebba | dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-05-26 | 17:55 |
| jebba | dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-07-26 | 17:55 |
| andre__ | jebba, hmm? | 17:55 |
| andre__ | context? | 17:55 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: df -h ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 17:55 |
| jebba | ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ chmod +w 2006-07-26 | 17:55 |
| jebba | ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver $ ls -l | grep 07-26 | 17:55 |
| jebba | dr-xr-xr-x 2 user root 65536 Mar 23 2007 2006-07-26 | 17:55 |
| jebba | $ df -h ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 17:56 |
| jebba | Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on | 17:56 |
| jebba | /dev/mmcblk0p1 27.0G 7.1G 19.9G 26% /home/user/MyDocs | 17:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | mount |grep MyDocs | 17:56 |
| jebba | andre__: I scp'd over a few directories. On my system the dirs are u-w so i didn't accidentally blow them out. I scp -pr them, so now when they are on the system, they don't have write perms. But I should be able to change that. | 17:57 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 17:57 | |
| jebba | $ mount |grep MyDocs | 17:57 |
| jebba | /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir) | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | rodir? | 17:57 |
| zash | read-only-dir? | 17:58 |
| jebba | $ ls -la | 17:58 |
| jebba | drwxrwxrwx 5 user root 65536 Dec 6 12:50 . | 17:58 |
| andre__ | aha. okay. | 17:58 |
| timeless_mbp | chmod 0777 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 17:58 |
| sejo | I have an icon in the status bar of the n900 that looks like a file with a red stripe through | 17:58 |
| sejo | what does that mean? | 17:58 |
| jebba | heh. chmod 0777 works, but +w doesnt ... | 17:58 |
| jebba | on the subdirs too. | 17:58 |
| timeless_mbp | sejo: no working sim card | 17:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | jebba: sounds like a busybox bug | 17:59 |
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| jebba | anyway, in the foto manager it made it complain that it couldn't remove the images via tap tap tap | 17:59 |
| timeless_mbp | chmod 0555 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 17:59 |
| timeless_mbp | chmod +w ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 17:59 |
| timeless_mbp | does that fail? | 17:59 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: correct. +w doesnt do anything | 18:00 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: doesn't do anything or complains and doesn't do anything? | 18:00 |
| sejo | timeless_mbp: thanks | 18:00 |
| jebba | ah, but a+w does. | 18:00 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: no complaints, just doesnt do anything | 18:00 |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 18:00 |
| timeless_mbp | so roughly, the ulimit means it's a partial mode change | 18:00 |
| timeless_mbp | and a partial mode change is meaningless on a FAT file system | 18:00 |
| timeless_mbp | chmod 0555 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 18:00 |
| timeless_mbp | chmod 0755 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 18:01 |
| timeless_mbp | what happens there? | 18:01 |
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| jebba | but things like this fail: chmod -R o-w 2006-0* (well, has no effect) | 18:01 |
| timeless_mbp | please be careful | 18:01 |
| timeless_mbp | 'no effect' and 'fail' are very different | 18:01 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: http://pastebin.ca/1704333 | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | right | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | so, roughly, a partial mode change is treated as an invalid thing | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | chmod 0777 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | chmod 0755 ~/MyDocs/.images/oliver | 18:02 |
| timeless_mbp | what happens there? | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | remember, fat does have a concept of 'readonly' | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | it just doesn't have a concept of groups, it's either readonly, or it isn't | 18:03 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: updated pastebin http://pastebin.ca/1704336 | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | right | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure there's actually a bug here | 18:04 |
| jebba | ah, ok, i get it now. | 18:04 |
| jebba | hmm FAT | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | umask is what causes +w and friends to not be treated as 0yyy | 18:04 |
| odin_ | no Very FAT lols | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i believe that the error message from the image viewer app is also sane | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | but, if you disagree, list it again, and i'll consider it | 18:05 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: ya, if you try to delete an image, should it chmod it? instead of just error? | 18:05 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 18:05 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 18:05 |
| timeless_mbp | no :) | 18:05 |
| timeless_mbp | but can file manager change the readonly bit for you? | 18:05 |
| jebba | heh. perhaps "this image is read-only, are you sure you want to delete?" or somesuch? | 18:05 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine you have 20 pictures in a set of 1000 pictures | 18:06 |
| timeless_mbp | because you don't want to accidentally delete them | 18:06 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't really want an image viewer to let you delete them <period> | 18:06 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, can you remove the readonly bit from file manager? | 18:06 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: i dont see a way in filemanager to change perms | 18:07 |
| timeless_mbp | looks like they dropped that feature :( | 18:08 |
| timeless_mbp | feel free to complain about file manager | 18:08 |
| timeless_mbp | the rest of it is all reasonable | 18:08 |
| sejo | how can I easily create a screenshot | 18:08 |
| jebba | for some reason i could delete all the default nokia images that came with the fone in the image viewer, except this image: digital_nature4_03.jpg not sure why that was different (all blown away now so can't full investigate, but it was: -rw-r--r-- ) timeless_mbp | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | sejo: ctrl-shift-p | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: was it your wallpaper? | 18:09 |
| jebba | dont' believe so. I was using default wallpaper at the time (not sure what that image looks like now) | 18:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | it was probably that one :) | 18:10 |
| sejo | thx | 18:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Is htere any pic taking application that does not have the geolocation rounding bug? | 18:10 |
| timeless_mbp | rounding bug? | 18:10 |
| SpeedEvil | It rounds locations to whole seconds of lat/lon | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | meaning a 30m*15m or so grid (in UK) | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | wow. | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:11 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: one other thing, re: wall papers. I had an image which I wanted to use as wallpaper. Needed to rotate it -90° and crop, which i did in the image viewer (very nice, btw). But then when i went to use it as a wallpaper, it got rotated *back* to it's original rotation, maybe due to EXIF info or something. I just edited it in gimp on laptop and deleted EXIF and it worked. | 18:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | jebba: file a bug | 18:12 |
| sp3000 | hm, I was uder the impression the desktop (and avatars) don't support exif orientation, rather? | 18:12 |
| sp3000 | and that the immage edit uses it rather than transforming the data | 18:13 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: try loading the picture (pre gimp) in the browser | 18:13 |
| sp3000 | but icbw | 18:13 |
| timeless_mbp | the browser doesn't support exif | 18:13 |
| timeless_mbp | (not a bug) | 18:13 |
| timeless_mbp | so if image viewer is cheating (quite likely) | 18:13 |
| timeless_mbp | then the bug is in desktop for not supporting a feature exposed by the image viewer "platform" | 18:13 |
| sp3000 | camera too, so no setting avatars from portrait portraits :) | 18:13 |
| sp3000 | ime | 18:14 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: so, does that make it a missing feature in gtkpixbuf? :) | 18:14 |
| lardman | hm Qt channel very quiet | 18:14 |
| sp3000 | heh, dunno | 18:14 |
| lardman | is there a Qt equivalent to osso_initialize()? | 18:15 |
| sp3000 | for moz upstream it's 298619 and rather inactive | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: it's likely it'd break the web :) | 18:15 |
| sp3000 | sometimes bugs me when looking at a full size image at flickr, as the scaled versions are manged t orientation but the original is original and may be exif'd to orientation | 18:15 |
| sp3000 | I dunno, I suspect it would fix more than break | 18:16 |
| sp3000 | hmm, I'm missing pesto | 18:17 |
| timeless_mbp | depends how often there's stray exif data uses in sites which didn't know about it | 18:17 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, pizza hut here has pesto | 18:17 |
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| sp3000 | and olives | 18:17 |
| sp3000 | so does my fridge ;) | 18:17 |
| * timeless_mbp has olives | 18:17 | |
| * timeless_mbp goes to read 'maybe spam' | 18:18 | |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: ok, browser shows it "upright", image viewer shows it "sideways" (how I want it), background shows it "upright" | 18:18 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, file a bug against desktop | 18:18 |
| timeless_mbp | don't bother filing one against browser. i will kill it. i promise | 18:18 |
| lardman | mmm, olives | 18:19 |
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| jebba | timeless_mbp: ok thx. sry for noise (esp. re: FAT) | 18:19 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 18:20 | |
| loft306 | haha | 18:20 |
| timeless_mbp | it's fun | 18:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, so where was i? | 18:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | todo: write a po editor | 18:21 |
| timeless_mbp | . fix engb | 18:21 |
| timeless_mbp | . fix maps | 18:21 |
| timeless_mbp | . help a local | 18:21 |
| timeless_mbp | . eat breakfast | 18:21 |
| SpeedEvil | A poo editor? | 18:21 |
| sp3000 | so how would you solve connections priorization to avoid automatically preferring annoying hotels and whatnots that require some silly possibly paid login instead of working immediately? | 18:21 |
| lardman | shovel? | 18:21 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 18:21 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.poopreport.com/Consumer/Content/Turd_twister/twister.html ? | 18:21 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders a digitally controlled one. | 18:22 | |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: without using drag and drop? | 18:22 |
| lardman | like those r/c snakes | 18:22 |
| jebba | hmm, HOWTO take screenshot? Best if I can do it from command line via SSH. Cuz if i take a screenshot of the desktop as it is now, it will explain bug much better than words :) | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and without being arrested for aiding digital tresspassing? | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: personally | 18:22 |
| sp3000 | I'm thinking the scheme should be moving connections between three tiers, "preferred", "autoconnect", "manual" | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd use the mozilla approach | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | you connect to a network | 18:22 |
| jebba | ah, via VNC := | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | but that doesn't save it | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | to save the network, you tap the network indicator and select save | 18:22 |
| timeless_mbp | the save thing lets you add a comment, and specify a preference | 18:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | for networks you don't save, they're left in a provisional bin | 18:23 |
| sp3000 | those tiers effectively exist already; all wifis go to preferred, cellular goes to autoconnect or manual depending on your answer to the autoconnect prompt (or later twweaking in cpl) | 18:23 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway | 18:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | autoconnect to unsecured wifi may not be legal though. | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | from memory the networking ui is maemo4 or maemo3, not maemo5 | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | so we're talking about rewriting it :) | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: do you have objections to my general approach? | 18:24 |
| sp3000 | orthogonal | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | by the time you're using the ui i describe, it's trivial to have the dialog specify as a dropdown option preferred, manual | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: not generally relevant | 18:24 |
| timeless_mbp | autoconnect is a distinct feature | 18:24 |
| SpeedEvil | oops - misread | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | the feature i was talking about but which we haven't covered is connecting to a network and pinging a well known host | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | some stupid state would probably claim that's digital tresspass | 18:25 |
| sp3000 | I'm basically suggesting the ability to demote wifis from preferred to autoconnect but not preferred , or manual | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: i'm not opposed | 18:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a way of connecting to two networks? I want to bridge my wifi and cell-radio to act as a modem | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but, to do that, we'd need to redo the ui | 18:25 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: technically yes | 18:26 |
| timeless_mbp | from the ui, no | 18:26 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: k | 18:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Thought not | 18:26 |
| sp3000 | in the general case, I think doing the simple thing and dumping wifis to preferred without questions may be the best alternative | 18:26 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: while nokia is trying to sell directly | 18:26 |
| timeless_mbp | we're also not trying to piss off cellular carriers more than necessary :) | 18:26 |
| sp3000 | simple case simple and tweak in cpl | 18:26 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: sorry - sell directly? ah | 18:26 |
| timeless_mbp | besides, designing a ui for that is painful | 18:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and no such ui would be 'simple' | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: somewhat. | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | and simple is a ui design goal | 18:27 |
| sp3000 | otoh the case where you're discovering sucky wifis gets a bit circumlocutious, but it always was | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: sorry, can you explain the categories again? | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: i should plug devicescape | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: I'm unsure what'd be wrong with the wireless net simply taking all packets routed for its netmask. | 18:27 |
| timeless_mbp | (disclaimer, my cousin works for them) | 18:27 |
| sp3000 | preferred is a set to which you get connected if available even if you already have a lower tier connection | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | But yes, it would add hard-to-debug corner cases | 18:28 |
| tigert | hmm | 18:28 |
| sp3000 | autoconnect is one you get autoconnected to if nothing else is available (cellular if you say "yes" to autoconnect) | 18:28 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: given that we can't get the basic corner cases right | 18:28 |
| sp3000 | manual never autoconnects | 18:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd rather not go there :) | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: so | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i think my approach is right | 18:29 |
| sp3000 | I don't think the autoconnect set would act preferred over the manual set as in disconnecting from a manually connected thing to hop over there; only preferred would do that | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | namely the status area should let you promote/demote/note the network | 18:29 |
| timeless_mbp | preferably geotag it | 18:29 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders if devicescape has shipped for the n900 yet | 18:30 | |
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| sp3000 | yeah, access to demote without going through cpl would fix the discovering sucky wifis case adequately I think, it could probably be shoehorned into that dialog | 18:33 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: got a minute to try reproduce something a bit weird? | 18:33 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe | 18:33 |
| w00t | tap the top left repeatedly (going between switcher and launcher) | 18:33 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: that dialog needs to be taken out back and shot | 18:33 |
| w00t | while doing this, I often end up at a blurred background (similar to launcher/switcher) with no items | 18:34 |
| w00t | I can reproduce this on two devices, but I'm not sure whether it's universal as Stskeeps can't | 18:34 |
| loft306 | scrambled eggs | 18:34 |
| sp3000 | receiving bacon frame | 18:35 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: ask the channel | 18:35 |
| * timeless_mbp goes back to engb | 18:35 | |
| w00t | ok, anyone else want to have a play with that one? :-) | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: seems to make sense | 18:35 |
| loft306 | dont got it w00t | 18:36 |
| w00t | loft306: are you pressing fairly rapidly? (once per 0.5 seconds) | 18:37 |
| w00t | roughly | 18:37 |
| loft306 | yep | 18:37 |
| w00t | hmm | 18:37 |
| w00t | I wonder why I'm special :-) | 18:37 |
| loft306 | see buth things on screen at once but no scramble | 18:38 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6632 | 18:38 |
| povbot` | Bug 6632: Background image does not show correct rotation | 18:38 |
| w00t | not a scramble, loft306, and it isn't always instantly triggerable, but I can always get it within about 10-20 seconds | 18:38 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: well filed, good steps to reproduce | 18:38 |
| loft306 | no just see both launcher and switcher on screen at the same time | 18:39 |
| ShadowJK | am I the only one who thinks the current connectivity ui is good as is? :P | 18:39 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba++ | 18:39 |
| sp3000 | fwiw I'm not sure if wifis in the middle tier makes sense or not | 18:39 |
| loft306 | till i stop and one fades out | 18:39 |
| w00t | ShadowJK: I don't mind it | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | w00t: I just tried it or a minute or so, and it diddn't do it at all | 18:39 |
| w00t | wtf. | 18:39 |
| w00t | this is insane :P | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | w00t: That is - it simply switched between - though occasionally stalling for a moment. | 18:39 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: thx | 18:39 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: what's really needed is "ignore this network, it sucks" | 18:39 |
| * loft306 is DangerMaus | 18:39 | |
| SpeedEvil | w00t: 3 apps. | 18:39 |
| w00t | I only have web bookmarks and an IM window open | 18:40 |
| sp3000 | that's kind of the bottom tier, but otoh I didn't think of any ...warning indicator for that | 18:40 |
| w00t | let me see if that matters | 18:40 |
| loft306 | same as SpeedEvil for results | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | w00t: calculator, a webpage, and file manager | 18:40 |
| sp3000 | and some of the bottom tier items may be thnigs you do want but just often not | 18:40 |
| loft306 | as we all break something | 18:41 |
| loft306 | :P | 18:41 |
| w00t | triggered with web bookmarks only open.. let's change that to calculator and see what happens | 18:41 |
| w00t | triggered with calculator too. I'm at a loss.. | 18:41 |
| * w00t thinks | 18:42 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Has anyone had issues with the statusbar loadmeter? | 18:42 |
| w00t | fwiw | 18:42 |
| w00t | http://share.ovi.com/media/w00teh.PublicRandomStu/w00teh.10003 | 18:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | For me it coincided with wifi not working | 18:42 |
| w00t | that's what it looks like | 18:42 |
| * w00t tries moving desktops to see if that matters somehow | 18:44 | |
| loft306 | hmm with calc i get it to drop out of launcher/switcher to the background here and there but not blurry | 18:44 |
| w00t | loft306: that occurs when it was blurry like that and you press anywhere | 18:45 |
| loft306 | alrite enough of this | 18:45 |
| w00t | so chances are it registered a press on the background and went to desktop | 18:45 |
| loft306 | thats what i was thinking | 18:45 |
| w00t | reproduced on another desktop, so that's not it | 18:45 |
| w00t | theme differs on the two devices, so that's not it | 18:46 |
| * hardaker2 wonders why /usr/share can't be entirely moved to /opt | 18:46 | |
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| loft306 | just your devices w00t your special :P | 18:46 |
| w00t | :( | 18:46 |
| w00t | it always occurs when going to the launcher screen, never the switcher, which makes sense given there is no button to open the launcher screen | 18:48 |
| jebba | would be nice to move / to /opt ;) | 18:48 |
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| hardaker2 | jebba: hah. yeah. though I understand the reason why they did it that way, they still should have made / larger. | 18:49 |
| * hardaker2 considers porting gparted and wonders how that would work ;-) | 18:49 | |
| hardaker2 | my / is now full :-( | 18:49 |
| hardaker2 | it's a lot of painful maintance to fix it. | 18:49 |
| jebba | hardaker2: don't reboot until you fix it or you may have to flash (I went thru that...) | 18:50 |
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| jebba | get to 99% at least | 18:50 |
| hardaker2 | Ah, good to know. thanks. | 18:51 |
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| hardaker2 | I've dropped it down to about 99 already but I'm glad to have heard that. | 18:51 |
| LeoD | hm, how big is /? | 18:51 |
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| hardaker2 | rootfs 233104 226900 1920 99% / | 18:52 |
| sp3000 | GB/4 + compression | 18:52 |
| LeoD | hmhm | 18:52 |
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| hardaker2 | I think someone said it was safe to move /var/cache to /opt but I haven't. | 18:53 |
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| odin_ | hardaker2, run "du -s /var/lib/dpkg" | 18:54 |
| hardaker2 | 28876 | 18:54 |
| odin_ | 28Mb of 233Mb, quite a bit.... | 18:54 |
| hardaker2 | info being the big one. | 18:54 |
| hardaker2 | yep. | 18:54 |
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| odin_ | I moved mine to /home/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg (I wrote a script on what I did) | 18:55 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: i can't find the sources for sbox2 | 18:55 |
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| hardaker2 | you've rebooted since then I assume? | 18:55 |
| hardaker2 | (though there is no reason it should be needed before /home is mounted) | 18:56 |
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| odin_ | yes and installed some apps | 18:56 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: some crappy work network? :) | 18:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | hardaker2: i've already explained why we can't move things to /opt | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | go read the channel logs | 18:57 |
| sejo | hmm /101 | 18:57 |
| hardaker2 | timeless_mbp: I understand the technical reasons. | 18:57 |
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| hardaker2 | but the current solution isn't workable. | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you mean not wanting to screw customers? | 18:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you call that a technical reason? | 18:57 |
| sp3000 | yeah I'm not sure if that sort of thing shouldn't just be in the bottom tier anyhow | 18:58 |
| sejo | does the maemo speak caldav? | 18:58 |
| hardaker2 | timeless_mbp: I should say I understand *why* things are done the way they are; but / is too small for it to be a usable system for any reasonable amount of pkg installs. | 18:58 |
| timeless_mbp | hardaker2: not if everyone installs into /opt | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | (not technically a great answer for the same reasons, but hey) | 18:59 |
| hardaker2 | timeless_mbp: Yep. there are a *ton* of things that should be in /opt that aren't. I agree. | 18:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | are there? | 18:59 |
| hardaker2 | but none-the-less: packaging is harder. | 18:59 |
| timeless_mbp | they shouldn't get promoted | 18:59 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 19:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | what we should have done was just setup a second package root in /opt | 19:00 |
| timeless_mbp | and use that | 19:00 |
| hardaker2 | 124160 /usr/share | 19:00 |
| timeless_mbp | it requires a bit more magic at the apt level | 19:00 |
| timeless_mbp | but it'd be better | 19:00 |
| odin_ | hardaker2, http://www.pastebin.org/61421 (try that, just comment out the last line which does the removal if you are not sure, it backs it up to a tar.gz file anyhow) | 19:00 |
| hardaker2 | odin_: thanks; I'll look at it. | 19:01 |
| hardaker2 | there are two ways to separate out things that have to be in / vs those that don't. | 19:01 |
| timeless_mbp | odin_: you're assuming he used command line to install junk? | 19:01 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 19:01 | |
| ShadowJK | I guess python somehow slipped through and was in extras before it was optified? :( | 19:01 |
| timeless_mbp | hardaker2: so, nokia screwed up | 19:01 |
| hardaker2 | 1) assume everyone can move stuff to /opt when packaging (including all the people that have been doing it other ways for everything they've packaged in the past) | 19:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | fixing it is incredibly hard | 19:01 |
| odin_ | timeless_mbp, assuming in what way? | 19:02 |
| w00t | ShadowJK: afaik python doesn't work optified atm | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | and way too late for a product that solidified months ago | 19:02 |
| ShadowJK | w00t, i think it does now? | 19:02 |
| w00t | mm | 19:02 |
| odin_ | timeless_mbp, I used HAM to install junk and still had not space | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | odin_: that cache dir is only used by apt, not ham | 19:02 |
| hardaker2 | 2) mark *only* the things that need to be in / as in / and move common directories to /opt and package the criticial ones separately (which could be done by experts at nokia) | 19:02 |
| w00t | you might be right | 19:02 |
| w00t | I don't know | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | odin_: that's because you didn't reboot | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | and someone held open file handles | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | (roughly) | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | "experts at nokia" | 19:02 |
| timeless_mbp | funny | 19:02 |
| hardaker2 | heh. | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | the experts are what gave you what you have, and | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | you expect something better later? | 19:03 |
| odin_ | timeless_mbp, no before rebootting I took a look at that issue, and couild not see any open file handlers to anonymous files | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | what are you smoking, and can i have some? | 19:03 |
| hardaker2 | I'm stating what the world *should* be like. Which means that in the world I'm describing, yes there *should* be experts at nokia. | 19:03 |
| w00t | heh | 19:03 |
| hardaker2 | I'm not, however, describing what currently exists -;) | 19:03 |
| ShadowJK | I guess that the "experts" never imagine to install so many apps that the / would fill up without optification :) | 19:03 |
| w00t | everyone is humajn | 19:03 |
| odin_ | timeless_mbp, HAM does appear to update the apt repo dirs, I have never installed anything with "apt-get" (yet) but I still had only 7Mb free on rootfs | 19:03 |
| w00t | -j | 19:03 |
| timeless_mbp | odin_: ham is not supposed to use the apt cache dir | 19:04 |
| * sp3000 is a unicorn | 19:04 | |
| * ShadowJK is pretty content after having installed ssh, rsync, mplayer, gpodder, xchat, and most of that probably went to / | 19:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | you're moving /var/lib/dpkg | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i assumed you moved the other one | 19:04 |
| *** fluff is now known as fluff|afk | 19:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, that one should move | 19:04 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | actually | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | it can't move for roughly the same reason | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | because it'd cause a system flash to be broken | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | so, no :) | 19:05 |
| odin_ | /var/lib/dpkg was eating like 5% and could easily grow to 10% (as more package come about) so I elected it to move :) | 19:05 |
| odin_ | shall I open a bug report to move it in next release ? | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | basically, that breaks system updates | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | totally pointless, it won't work | 19:05 |
| timeless_mbp | see my original explanation for why system stuff can't be in /ppt | 19:06 |
| ShadowJK | wouldn't system flash restore the original? | 19:06 |
| timeless_mbp | it can't | 19:06 |
| timeless_mbp | system flash only touches ubifs | 19:06 |
| timeless_mbp | if it fries /home, then the customer is screwed | 19:06 |
| timeless_mbp | because we ate 2gb of his *user* data | 19:06 |
| odin_ | but when ubifs boots up the first time, it can run and offer to re-link/re-set suiff in /home | 19:06 |
| timeless_mbp | things like his mailbox | 19:06 |
| timeless_mbp | odin_: have you ever tried merging two package repositories? | 19:07 |
| ShadowJK | If the user managed to get modest to collect any significant amount of mails there's something else abnormal going on too ;-) | 19:07 |
| timeless_mbp | it's roughly apt-get dist-update between competing apt-vendors | 19:07 |
| odin_ | but /home/opt/maemo/ should not be considered "user data" ?? | 19:07 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: shh | 19:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | odin_: but /home/opt shares space with /home/user | 19:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's the same stupid file system | 19:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | please go read the output from df | 19:07 |
| odin_ | it should be considers extra system space which is managed by SSU | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | and keep in mind that flashing is not aware of file system structure | 19:08 |
| odin_ | who cares its the same | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | flashing writes raw data | 19:08 |
| ShadowJK | maybe it'd be easier to just move and symlink all the extra crap you've installed | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | that happens to become a file system | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | it's easier not to use ham | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | and to use apt configured w/ alt-root | 19:08 |
| timeless_mbp | w/ a bit of black magic, you could make apt do the right thing (tm) | 19:08 |
| odin_ | I've audier a number of packages installed but can't see where the bulk of the problem is.. I have further work to do, to identify problem packages, I think the /usr/lib/ is a good place to look | 19:09 |
| odin_ | heh.. I'm not after a black magic device... just simply solutions non-linux-experts can use | 19:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | only install stuff that's been promoted to extras | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and let's go fix the couple of broken things in extras | 19:10 |
| odin_ | are you saying after a reflash that all the packages that were previously installed but placed into /home/opt will all be re-installed/re-linked ? | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | (note: this doesn't actually work, but for now, that's our story, and let's stick to it) | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | odin_: after a reflash / and /home are out of sync | 19:10 |
| timeless_mbp | if the package database lives in /, then it won't know about anything in /home | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | if it's in /home, then it won't know about anything in / | 19:11 |
| odin_ | so what is the problem anyhow... that /var/lib/dpkg is moved, since it doesn't matter after a reflash | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | neither way works | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | um, wtf | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | it most certainly does matter | 19:11 |
| odin_ | moving it does not increase problems | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | because you want to be able to do system upgrades over the air | 19:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | you need to know which system packages and versions are installed | 19:11 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, please go away and think about this for a month | 19:12 |
| timeless_mbp | you clearly haven't, and you're wasting my time and raising my blood pressure | 19:12 |
| odin_ | did you read the script ? there is a symlink left /var/lib/dpkg -> /opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg | 19:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | after flashing, what happens to that symlink? | 19:12 |
| timeless_mbp | it's dead jim | 19:12 |
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| odin_ | so what ? | 19:12 |
| odin_ | you reflashed | 19:12 |
| timeless_mbp | you now have two incompatible package databases | 19:12 |
| timeless_mbp | how the heck do you merge them? | 19:12 |
| odin_ | all my packages where are also in /home/opt are gone too | 19:13 |
| ShadowJK | Even without the symlink, the database gets overwritten? | 19:13 |
| odin_ | there is no *new* problem created | 19:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | 19:13 | |
| timeless_mbp | if [ -d "/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg" ] | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | then | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | echo "$0: Directory : already exists" 1>&2 | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | exit 1 | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | sure there is | 19:13 |
| timeless_mbp | the second time i try to run your script, it fails | 19:13 |
| ShadowJK | And with the symlink, you happen to have a a backup left of the database at the point before flashing? | 19:13 |
| odin_ | if I reflash I expect things to be reset | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | now i have crap in /opt, i can't use teh script again | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | look | 19:14 |
| odin_ | the check at the top of the script is to stop you from running it twice, when it failed a previous time before, so you NEVER loose youe dpkg dir, no matter how many time your try and run it | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly speaking, the system can't be changed to work the way you're suggesting globally | 19:14 |
| odin_ | it is not there so you can re-run it after a reflash | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | and if we're going to engineer a fix | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | we might as well get it right | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | getting it right involves support for merged package databases | 19:15 |
| odin_ | sure you work on that :) | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | via an alt root | 19:15 |
| greenfly | not only that, if the package database is unaffected after a firmware update, what happens to the packages that didn't install in /opt, but are now gone, yet the database that didn't get overwritten still thinks they are there? | 19:15 |
| Myrtti | *sigh* | 19:15 |
| Myrtti | sdk won't install :-( | 19:15 |
| timeless_mbp | greenfly: :) | 19:15 |
| odin_ | greenfly, lol.. but the symlink is gone, when you reflash the dpkg if moved back on device | 19:16 |
| greenfly | this is a harder problem than anyone in here is going to fix with a few symlinks and a 10-line bash script | 19:16 |
| greenfly | odin_: yeah and the package database will at that point be broken and incorrect | 19:17 |
| odin_ | the problem is rootfs exhaustion and the non-scalable use of HAM | 19:17 |
| greenfly | odin_: unless you can know with a certainty that EVERY package it knows of was installed in /opt | 19:17 |
| greenfly | and they won't be | 19:17 |
| tigert | Myrtti: whats the problem? | 19:17 |
| odin_ | ^^^ just to re-iterate exactly that the problem domain is | 19:17 |
| lucent | is there a way to recover a "bricked" (software no good) phone ... like a hardware USB storage mode or something? | 19:17 |
| * lucent adds "N900" | 19:17 | |
| tigert | lucent: reflash? | 19:18 |
| lucent | oh okay | 19:18 |
| w00t | lucent: tried flashing? | 19:18 |
| *** Meizirkki__ is now known as Meizirkki | 19:18 | |
| odin_ | ~reflash | 19:18 |
| infobot | rumour has it, reflash is zImage and/or initrd.bin on CF and press C+D+Reset (collie) OR updater.sh, zimage.bin and/or initrd.bin on CF/SD and press OK while rebooting, then option 4, then CD or SF, then HAI (yes), then wait and cross fingers (all other models) | 19:18 |
| jebba | odin, instead of the symlinking etc, you can just do: apt-get -o dir::cache=/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache ... | 19:18 |
| lucent | I ordered, haven't received yet. Just starting to get curious about it | 19:18 |
| odin_ | jebba, I am not using "apt-get" and never have use it, I am using HAM | 19:18 |
| jebba | ah gotcha | 19:18 |
| tigert | eh | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | lucent: define recover | 19:19 |
| lucent | lol @ instructions for zaurus | 19:19 |
| tigert | infobot is on crack | 19:19 |
| infobot | No, I'm not! | 19:19 |
| w00t | hah | 19:19 |
| tigert | ~lart infobot | 19:19 |
| * infobot brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, tigert!" and lops off tigert's head | 19:19 | |
| lucent | I used to own a zaurus c3000 and I recognize those | 19:19 |
| sejo | sorry was afk for a while... does anyone know if the n900 can speak caldav? | 19:19 |
| w00t | sejo: I do not believe so, but I'm not an expert ther | 19:20 |
| w00t | e | 19:20 |
| tigert | it would be fun to run the same infobot on some other embedded linux channel as well, with a shared database :) | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: yeah, he's not changing the .deb cache | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | he's changing where the package db lives | 19:20 |
| Myrtti | tigert: hm, I think I might have fixed it, woes with 64-bit... discussions long gone with workmates in our internal jabber chatrooms suddenly come back as flashbacks | 19:21 |
| sejo | thx w00t | 19:21 |
| tigert | ok | 19:21 |
| jebba | certainly would be fantastic to have more space on / since the device has so much fkn space, but no need to retread that path.... | 19:21 |
| odin_ | simply because 5% use for just the package db is significant (IMHO) considering packages will only increase now and could easily be 10% before the next model is out | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, is crash-reporter available to normal people? | 19:22 |
| jebba | perhaps 1G NAND by then (?). was pretty easy to install a "lot" and brick the device, and we dont even have 5% of the app repo that will be there in a year. | 19:22 |
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| w00t | timeless_mbp: how do I check? | 19:22 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: it'd be in 'other' in ham | 19:22 |
| w00t | one moment | 19:22 |
| tigert | w00t: check your controlpanel first | 19:23 |
| w00t | hmm? | 19:23 |
| tigert | if it has the last item as "crash reporter" | 19:23 |
| w00t | will do, one moment | 19:23 |
| tigert | since HAM wont show it in the package list if it is already installed | 19:23 |
| tigert | well, it would be in the uninstall section of course | 19:24 |
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| w00t | not in HAM or control panel that I can see | 19:24 |
| sejo | btw should I stick to the "web" application or install fennec? | 19:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | tigert: crash-reporter needs art for ham, xxx please fix for me? :) | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | sejo: you should install fennec, decide you don't like it, and uninstall it | 19:25 |
| w00t | ^ | 19:25 |
| sejo | lol | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | it's free, no reason to take someone else's word for it | 19:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | make up your own mind, don't be a sheep or a lemming | 19:25 |
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| jebba | image viewer is fantastic, btw :) nice job | 19:26 |
| odin_ | jebba, maybe the package manager should do the disk-space checks from the point of view of a non-root user, so a package installed even though running as root can't use the reserved filesystem space | 19:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | odin_: the file system is compressed | 19:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | there's no way to get useful answers | 19:27 |
| woglinde | hi | 19:27 |
| sejo | timeless_mbp: ok asked it because 1) i'm interested in what others have tested 2) because I have no interest in playnig vith it if it is a memory hog or battery drainer | 19:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a web browser | 19:27 |
| timeless_mbp | they're all memory hogs and battery leaches | 19:27 |
| odin_ | timeless_mbp, then there should be a mechnism to request an answer, i.e. re-compact/compress/evaluation the ubifs and give me the real numbers | 19:27 |
| hardaker2 | sejo: it's slow and big. In theory, with weave it would be kinda cool for that feature. but I haven't actually gotten the weave plugin to even work. | 19:27 |
| timeless_mbp | but next time, just explain why you're asking first, you'll save some aggravation :) | 19:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | odin_: nope. | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | you can't know what will happen until you do it | 19:28 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: lynx | 19:28 |
| SpeedEvil | (though somewhat given on the memory leeches) | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | it's roughly a Schrödinger's cat problem | 19:28 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: oh, i could offer telnet... | 19:29 |
| timeless_mbp | but really | 19:29 |
| * SpeedEvil giggles at the concept of the n920 launching with multitouch lynx. | 19:29 | |
| odin_ | where a packages that are downloaded stored ? before install by HAM ? | 19:29 |
| tigert | /var/lib/apt/archives ? | 19:29 |
| woglinde | ~seen javispedro | 19:30 |
| infobot | javispedro <n=javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 18h 42m 53s ago, saying: ':) well, gnite'. | 19:30 |
| tigert | no? | 19:30 |
| odin_ | 11Mb in /var/lib/apt 2.5% | 19:30 |
| sp3000 | MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/ sounds plausible | 19:30 |
| * tigert shuts up :) | 19:30 | |
| sp3000 | the bits I see in /var/cache/apt/archives are packages installed manually w/ apt-get | 19:31 |
| ShadowJK | I think crash-reporter is in the sdk tools repo | 19:32 |
| odin_ | so you need a loop back fs driver for ubifs to null storage which can provide information about on-disk compression ratios | 19:32 |
| sejo | bleh fennec doesn't render by blog sicely soo no-go | 19:32 |
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| sejo | s/sicely/nicely/ | 19:32 |
| infobot | sejo meant: bleh fennec doesn't render by blog nicely soo no-go | 19:32 |
| suihkulokki | lynx is kinda dead, now we need someone to create webkit-ncurses.. | 19:32 |
| tigert | aalib:) | 19:33 |
| sejo | suihkulokki: why not try w3m? | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: oh sure, that'll help memory use | 19:33 |
| Myrtti | links ♥ | 19:34 |
| jebba | HOWTO zoom image in image viewer tho? | 19:35 |
| w00t | volume control | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: hardware volume keys | 19:35 |
| odin_ | anyhow not trying to squeeze the very last Mb out of rootfs, just after early warning of getting full and better limits in HAM (especially if the problem causes bricked devices, maybe ubifs and the roofs could expand the volume during the bootup and take back those pages again to reseve for the next bootup) | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | ??? | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | you do understand that there's a physical piece of hardware behind ubifs, right? | 19:36 |
| odin_ | maybe tacking pages of ram will do it, onto the volume | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | ... | 19:37 |
| w00t | umm.. | 19:37 |
| jebba | ah, i see. That was bringing up image browser (multiple thumbnails) on some images. Though I've also read that volume shouldnt be used for that (?) https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6347 | 19:37 |
| povbot` | Bug 6347: [metabug] N900 Hardware key: Zoom vs. Volume inconsistencies | 19:37 |
| * Stskeeps twitches | 19:37 | |
| odin_ | yes and you can keep pages reserved for bootup if you wanted... just like other aspect of ubifs | 19:37 |
| greenfly | you might be able to get away with some sort of unionfs, if it were stable enough, but even that solution has problems | 19:37 |
| * w00t sedates Stskeeps | 19:37 | |
| timeless_mbp | unionfs doesn't really solve the package db problem | 19:38 |
| greenfly | right | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | qnx is about the only system i know that got this right | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | but packaging for qnx was so hard that everyone hated doing it | 19:38 |
| greenfly | that's among the problems :) | 19:38 |
| odin_ | I am making a presumption that bricked devices are due to 100% full rootfs, and the device won't boot if it can't write out some files | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | i think qnx packaging was probably actually not as bad as maemo packaging | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | but... | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | odin_: do us a favor and don't? | 19:38 |
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| odin_ | just for clarification, I'm not only talking about package db issue here, I am talking from the point of view of making a full fs condition not cause bricked devices | 19:39 |
| jebba | but that's pretty much true. Fill 100%, get brick. | 19:39 |
| odin_ | less bricked devices == more happy people | 19:39 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 19:39 | |
| RST38h | Bug 6347: [metabug] Give us the hardware keys back! | 19:40 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6347 [metabug] N900 Hardware key: Zoom vs. Volume inconsistencies | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | a user who manages to fill his device | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | will manage to fill his device no matter how many extra k you give him | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | he'll still be unhappy | 19:40 |
| odin_ | maybe also a yellow/red band warning in the device "your rootfs is low on space" | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | sometimes it's better to fire your customer | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | under what conditions? | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | gecko is um, ~10mb | 19:40 |
| odin_ | timeless_mbp, not sure I'm on your wavelength there timeless | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | webkit if it has to pull in qt.net is ~25 | 19:40 |
| timeless_mbp | if you try to install one of those, the warning at 5mb would be vaguely useless | 19:41 |
| timeless_mbp | but if you try to install a 10k package, a warning at 5mb would also be useless | 19:41 |
| odin_ | huh HAM (apt-get) should not be installing them in the first place, which is a sep issue | 19:41 |
| RST38h | Most managers will eventially find it easier to fire the employee who systematically suggest firing their customers... | 19:42 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: not in finland :) | 19:42 |
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| odin_ | the red/yellow band warning is a general usage monitor/indicator | 19:42 |
| timeless_mbp | besides, @nokia, we have a really screwy concept of who the customer is | 19:42 |
| jebba | certainly not geeks on irc! ;) | 19:42 |
| timeless_mbp | historically it was some other entity entirely unrelated to real customers | 19:42 |
| timeless_mbp | which was rather unfortunate | 19:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | but do note, that as jebba writes, eventually geeks on irc are not the target audience | 19:43 |
| timeless_mbp | look, if there's a bug in apt, there's a bug in apt | 19:44 |
| timeless_mbp | find the bug, and get it fixed | 19:44 |
| odin_ | the target audience are the twats out there with money and no sense who fall for marketing schemes of the time | 19:44 |
| timeless_mbp | ideally apt should not hose any system | 19:44 |
| * timeless_mbp didn't say that :) | 19:44 | |
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| odin_ | lol I am not using apt.. HAM would prolyl hose my system | 19:44 |
| Myrtti | I'm becoming more and more cynical and impatient... *sigh* | 19:45 |
| timeless_mbp | apt in this case being apt as a system, including apt-worker and the apt libraries | 19:45 |
| odin_ | which HAM is using undernearth... ok understood | 19:45 |
| jebba | i just talked to a total non-tech who is using N900 now and is blown away by it. (google talk being something he really liked + qik) | 19:45 |
| timeless_mbp | qik? | 19:46 |
| jebba | qik.com it's an app in extras too | 19:46 |
| w00t | Myrtti: whyfor? | 19:46 |
| odin_ | what about a package management plugin for libapt (or whatever its called) that can deal with pre-compressed/optimized/container file based packagedb's ? | 19:47 |
| Myrtti | w00t: I just want to slap people that I can't withstand... | 19:47 |
| * Myrtti goes back to watching telly and to knit | 19:47 | |
| w00t | Myrtti: :-/ | 19:47 |
| odin_ | /var/lib/dpkg/available as in /var/lib/dpkg/available.gz | 19:47 |
| * Stskeeps gets Myrtti the power to electrocute people over the internet | 19:47 | |
| w00t | Stskeeps: stab-over-ip | 19:47 |
| odin_ | or even better just a single file /var/lib/dpkg/one-big-package-db-dont-look-inside-me | 19:48 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, qik looks cool | 19:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | odin_: i think there has been some discussion of using loopback mounted file systems for some of these things | 19:53 |
| timeless_mbp | trying to use gzip is probably to some extent a layering violation, and is certainly fairly invasive | 19:54 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 19:55 | |
| * timeless_mbp spots a packaging bug | 19:55 | |
| odin_ | timeless_mbp, those ideas just off-the-cuff I don't know enough about 'libapt' and I can't say I have any motivation to address/fix those things | 19:55 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: so i went through like 100 images in the image viewer and rotated ones that had incorrect rotation. They appear fine when viewing them full screen and in "tools" mode, but as thumbnails they are not correct rotation. | 19:55 |
| sp3000 | gzip won't help much on a compressed fx | 19:56 |
| sp3000 | fs even | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: i can't same i'm shocked | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | find /file a bug :) | 19:56 |
| jebba | mkay | 19:56 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: note that you earn karma for filing good unique bugs | 19:56 |
| odin_ | anyone know what compression does it use itself ? | 19:57 |
| timeless_mbp | so this isn't just useless work | 19:57 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/ubifs.html | 19:57 |
| timeless_mbp | would it shock you to learn there's actually documentation? | 19:57 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Hey, what are you getting impatient about? Haven't you decided to skip Maemo5 altogether? =) | 19:57 |
| sp3000 | don't recall, lzop/gz/none either statically or dynamically | 19:57 |
| timeless_mbp | that you could find using your favorite search engine? | 19:57 |
| Shellevil | timeless so you might earn another n900? | 19:57 |
| sp3000 | something in that ballpark | 19:58 |
| odin_ | zlib an LZO but which is used inN900 ? | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | Shellevil: or a discount on an n900.next? something like that | 19:58 |
| jebba | ya, no kidding. what a buncha karma do anyway? free burritos? | 19:58 |
| jebba | ah ok. | 19:58 |
| RST38h | odin: libz is libz everywhere | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: it can also get you a search | 19:58 |
| timeless_mbp | s/search/shirt/ | 19:58 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: jebba: it can also get you a shirt | 19:58 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 19:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | i have an orange one | 19:58 |
| odin_ | speaking of libz, where is it in userspace? ls -l /lib/lib*z*so /usr/lib/lib*z*so does not yeild a result | 19:59 |
| Stskeeps | same :P | 19:59 |
| Shellevil | xchat - is there a way to hide the top bar? | 19:59 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: why can't i find a single FiF shirt on google? | 19:59 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: dunno. i wear it at home mostly :P | 20:00 |
| RST38h | odin: /usr/lib no? | 20:00 |
| jebba | Shellevil: not that i've found -- looked for same thing | 20:00 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I have got VE working. ON a 800x480 screen. | 20:00 |
| sp3000 | rotating an image updates its thumb for me ok | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: cool | 20:00 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Will package into a deb, but not going to deal with autobuilder | 20:00 |
| timeless_mbp | ve? | 20:01 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: So, whoever would like to push it through autobuilder, be my guest(s) and earn extra 40 or so karma | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: try to push source somewhere though | 20:01 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: It is 29MB and involves complicated system of makefiles | 20:01 |
| *** Shellevil is now known as Speedevil | 20:02 | |
| sp3000 | odin_: you're missing an asterisk | 20:02 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: + I will have to add .desktop, change default config, add packaging, and probably add a few keyboard shortcuts | 20:02 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: The rest I actively refuse to deal with :) | 20:02 |
| odin_ | sp3000, ah yeah no -devel packges on device :) duh! | 20:02 |
| PolarFox | has anyone done anything to get mail more often than waiting 5 minutes? :) | 20:04 |
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| jebba | sp3000: was that with an image that had EXIF data? Mine had previous EXIF data. | 20:04 |
| PolarFox | Maemo wont do IMAP idle nicely, So is there a "hack" to make it go faster :) | 20:05 |
| timeless_mbp | oops | 20:05 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 20:05 | |
| Myrtti | RST38h: impatient about everything, not just maemo. I've recently quit several other, far more personally important irc channels because I couldn't handle idiots gracefully anymore | 20:05 |
| * timeless_mbp botched something | 20:05 | |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: May I suggest reading scp-wiki.wikidot.com? It is almost as pacifying as knitting | 20:06 |
| jebba | Myrtti: fire up /ignore ... | 20:06 |
| redeeman | Myrtti: did you get the sdk working? | 20:06 |
| * RST38h checked tmo this morning and all he found were Oct2009ers actively discussing some completely bogus stuff | 20:06 | |
| Myrtti | redeeman: yeah | 20:06 |
| redeeman | ok good | 20:06 |
| Myrtti | well, I haven't tried it yet, but atleast it installed | 20:07 |
| RST38h | And yes, first 4 /ignores set for some #maemo characters =( | 20:07 |
| redeeman | odin_: are you still interrested in stuff to clean up / with? | 20:07 |
| Myrtti | jebba: old habits die hard, as an ex op of many channels I lack the skill of ignoring idiots, that's the worst part of it | 20:07 |
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| redeeman | odin_: you could probably remove around 10MB of locales and timezones, i do however not know if the timezones are used for the world clock or not(however, i would speculate not) | 20:08 |
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| PolarFox | Myrtti: I hope anyone didn't expect #maemo to survive N900 release. | 20:09 |
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| Myrtti | PolarFox: I've not had high hopes at any point... | 20:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | PolarFox: the n900 was already released | 20:11 |
| Zeddeh | how do i get subtitle support for the media player on the n900? | 20:11 |
| RST38h | you do not | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | redeeman: they're used by the clock | 20:11 |
| Robot101 | timeless_mbp: I think that was his point | 20:11 |
| Zeddeh | are there any other players? | 20:11 |
| timeless_mbp | so yeah, that'd almost certainly break things | 20:11 |
| RST38h | mplayer | 20:11 |
| redeeman | timeless_mbp: but also for the worldclock to see other timezones? | 20:11 |
| redeeman | oh well. guess those shouldn't be removed then | 20:11 |
| redeeman | but the locales certainly can | 20:12 |
| jebba | sp3000: it has changed it for some, not others (thumbnail rotation). They both have exif info. Hmm. I wonder if the cache is just lagging or something | 20:12 |
| Fazias | could anyone care to tell me how can i get the drnoksnes to launch my roms :p? | 20:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | redeeman: well, the world clock data just points to timezone files | 20:12 |
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| RST38h | http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2009/12/03/nokia-buy-palm-dump-symbian-axe-maemo-hire-rubinstein-and-do-it-now-analyst-advises/ | 20:12 |
| RST38h | Ahahahahaha | 20:12 |
| tigert | GAN900: around? | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and the datafile can be changed to rely on a different set of timezones .. | 20:12 |
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| jebba | my TZ data (Buenos Aires) is incorrect.... (bug filed) | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: isn't your time zone the one where your government was broken? | 20:14 |
| sp3000 | that's the one :) | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: resolved: fix your government | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | (move?) | 20:14 |
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| jebba | timeless_mbp: oh, i'd certainly love to do both, believe me. | 20:15 |
| Speedevil | Or overthrow | 20:15 |
| * sp3000 doesn't want to do his government | 20:15 | |
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| tigert | hmm | 20:15 |
| tigert | anyone still in maebar? | 20:15 |
| tigert | planning for dinner or such? | 20:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | sp3000: eep | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | somehow i ended up using enus0 | 20:17 |
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| Shapeshifter | Is it normal with these kinds of devices that there are quite a few bad eggs among new units or is the n900 something to be worried about? broken mics, broken screens, leaking screens, leaking keyboards, unstable usb-ports... | 20:20 |
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| tigert | leaking keyboards? | 20:21 |
| Shapeshifter | tigert: leaking light | 20:21 |
| Shapeshifter | between keys | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | Shapeshifter: moist SD card ports | 20:22 |
| tigert | right | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | oh, that was n8x0.. | 20:22 |
| RST38h | What is a leaking screen? or a leaking keyboard? | 20:22 |
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| Shapeshifter | RST38h: screen leaking light, being illuminated unevenly, keyboard leaking light between keys | 20:22 |
| RST38h | the fragile usb port is indeed a problem, I hope they back down and add a normal power connector to the next model | 20:23 |
| pekuja | Shapeshifter: I'd say that's pretty common. new devices always have problems | 20:23 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: bullshit mostly | 20:23 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: there's actually a feature for having very bright lights behind half the keyboard | 20:23 |
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| pekuja | Shapeshifter: you just have to hope you don't get one of the bad eggs I suppose. or wait :-/ | 20:23 |
| Fazias | bah, managed to find my solution to drnoksnes from irclogs, thank god for search... Time to enjoy my n900 more! | 20:23 |
| pekuja | Shapeshifter: early adopters usually get screwed a bit | 20:23 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: not going to happen | 20:23 |
| divinegod | i've just filed bug 6653, problems with h264 videos | 20:23 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6653 was not found. | 20:23 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh. | 20:24 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: the only "uneven illumination" I can see is a slight variation in brightness at the rightmost edge, but you have to consciously look for it | 20:24 |
| timeless_mbp | have you paid any attn to the European union demands for a standard charging cable? | 20:24 |
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| RST38h | Shapeshifter: leaky keyboard illumination is some kind of bullshit | 20:24 |
| divinegod | s/6653/6635/ | 20:24 |
| infobot | divinegod meant: i've just filed bug 6635, problems with h264 videos | 20:24 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6635 OpenMax returns error when trying to play an mp4 file with h264 video | 20:24 |
| Mece | wow' xchat is nice | 20:24 |
| Fazias | it is | 20:24 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Yes, keys may be somewhat unevenly illuminated (there are just so many leds underneath), but it isn't an issue really | 20:24 |
| RST38h | timeless: providing BOTH has not been explicitely prohibited by the EU | 20:25 |
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| Speedevil | The LED brightness is settable per Led | 20:25 |
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| RST38h | And by only providing that USB connector Nokia sets itself up for support trouble | 20:26 |
| Speedevil | You can even animate them | 20:26 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 20:26 | |
| RST38h | In about 3 months form now | 20:26 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia needs to get the usb port working right <period> | 20:26 |
| RST38h | Probably impossible | 20:26 |
| timeless_mbp | not getting it right would be *bad* | 20:26 |
| Speedevil | host++ | 20:26 |
| Mece | hmm the user list has too big font, but otherwise xchat seems very good. | 20:26 |
| Speedevil | (imo) | 20:26 |
| RST38h | The logic behind it (as in not charging when being plugged into PC) should be fixable | 20:27 |
| RST38h | Even electrical circuitry can be fixed (i.e. USB host) | 20:27 |
| tigert | Speedevil: you can also tune the notification leds | 20:27 |
| RST38h | Mechanics are a no go though | 20:27 |
| tigert | Speedevil: like make email and chat blinks different color | 20:27 |
| tigert | mce.ini | 20:27 |
| Mece | this should be pushed to testing soon imo | 20:27 |
| redeeman | what is wrong with the usb port? | 20:27 |
| RST38h | Well, dunno, maybe if you fix the whole assembly with some kind of plastic goo... | 20:27 |
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| RST38h | redeeman: apparently becomes loose | 20:28 |
| Speedevil | mece: yeah - BUT for the save settings thing | 20:28 |
| RST38h | redeeman: with the socket tearing off the board | 20:28 |
| redeeman | wtf | 20:28 |
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| Mece | SpeedEvil, oh? I guess I didn't save settings | 20:29 |
| RST38h | totally expected if you ask me | 20:29 |
| RST38h | MicroUSB is flimsy and not supposed to be used often (as in for charging) | 20:29 |
| Speedevil | mece crashes on exit of prefs | 20:29 |
| redeeman | RST38h: i have devices with microusb that has been replugged many hundreds of times with no issues | 20:29 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: no, I mean, actually wrongly cut out keyboards or something. Here, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysI62VO9ohw 2:50 | 20:30 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: *wah* | 20:30 |
| Shapeshifter | oh and I forgot dead pixels. | 20:30 |
| timeless_mbp | my installer is broken | 20:30 |
| RST38h | redeeman: apparently, statistics are different | 20:30 |
| Speedevil | rst: the variant usesd hasx 10000 cycle typ | 20:30 |
| redeeman | RST38h: interresting | 20:30 |
| ShadowJK | Nokia E75 has both 2mm and microusb charging :) | 20:30 |
| RST38h | Speedevil: much fewer for a lot of people, it seems | 20:30 |
| redeeman | is that 10k cycles for the microusb port? | 20:31 |
| RST38h | Speedevil: the 10k figure may apply to the socket itself not to the assembly | 20:31 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Hey, E70 has the mighty 3.5mm plug | 20:31 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: THAT thing NEVER broke on me | 20:31 |
| Speedevil | rst: and you get early fails with any hardware | 20:31 |
| Speedevil | rst: assembly? | 20:31 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, I have one broken 3.5mm, one working 3.5mm and 3 working 2mm :) | 20:32 |
| RST38h | Speedevil: the socket is soldered to the board, that connection breaks according to tmo reports | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | Speedevil, the port itself doesn't break, but everything around it breaks | 20:32 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Did you chew on it? =) | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, I don't think it's soldered on | 20:32 |
| Speedevil | rst: soldered to pcb, That's it | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, dunno, I think the contacts inside are worn out and not pushing against hte plug sufficiently | 20:32 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: 2mms often go back in N8x0s, apparently - lots of people complained | 20:32 |
| Speedevil | shad: that is not expected. | 20:33 |
| ShadowJK | I think it's not even soldered on N8x0? iirc sts swapped one with no soldering | 20:33 |
| RST38h | Interesting | 20:33 |
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| Speedevil | the life figure does not include it falling off! | 20:33 |
| ShadowJK | Speedevil, indeed :) | 20:33 |
| Speedevil | That's a fault in process or design. | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | One thing I've noticed about the microusb connection, is that it's hard to get it aligned correctly and at the right angle | 20:34 |
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| ShadowJK | though the plug on the converter seems better than the plug on the charger... | 20:34 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Of course, it is a wide rectangular motherfucker | 20:34 |
| Speedevil | sha: put fur round it. | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | with the 2mm and 3.5mm things it was pretty easy, if it was aligned it went in | 20:34 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: seen what I meant by leaking keyboard? | 20:34 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: I can never plug it in the dark | 20:34 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, it took me 5 minutes last time :) | 20:34 |
| ShadowJK | I have the converter in the car, and there I seem able to plug it in pretty consistently in the dark | 20:35 |
| ShadowJK | The converter gets so hot, I imagine it's sucking up most of hte power itself... heh | 20:35 |
| Speedevil | feel the plug | 20:35 |
| RST38h | Not getting hot here | 20:35 |
| Arkenoi | miniusb is way better than micro | 20:35 |
| Speedevil | the smooth side is down | 20:35 |
| jebba | Mece: xchat isnt "optified" | 20:35 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: I will say the heresy now. | 20:35 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: N900 needs a charging cradle, like those Casio Exilims. | 20:36 |
| jebba | optification will hold back lots of apps. | 20:36 |
| ShadowJK | Speedevil, I have no problem finding the right way up. Sensibly, Nokia has only embossed crap on one side of it | 20:36 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Of course, it means that it would be plugged upside down :) | 20:36 |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, upside down and sideways you mean | 20:36 |
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| ShadowJK | :) | 20:37 |
| jebba | mece just saved his xchat prefs ;) | 20:37 |
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| ShadowJK | I think the crashes in xchat will hold it back more ;) | 20:37 |
| Speedevil | I want another 3.5MM stereo socket for charge | 20:37 |
| Speedevil | _so_ much better for usb | 20:37 |
| Speedevil | but... | 20:37 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd want all connectors on one side of hte phone, so I could sensibly have headphone and charger plugged in at the same time whilst phone is in pocket | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | right now, phone is going to sit on one plug... | 20:38 |
| Myrtti | ShadowJK: lollers. | 20:38 |
| * suihkulokki looks for a pony | 20:38 | |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: well, I assume we finalyl get the portrait mode | 20:38 |
| Myrtti | ShadowJK: have you seen N95? | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | Myrtti, at a distance | 20:38 |
| jebba | suihkulokki: build up lots of karma points | 20:39 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: But the thing is, the screen should probably be rotatable in all four directions | 20:39 |
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| Myrtti | the stereo jack is in the UTMOST SHITTIEST place in the history of mobile phones in that one | 20:39 |
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| ShadowJK | Myrtti, does it stick out sideways like the usb on e75? | 20:39 |
| * sp3000 tries to imagine the worst possible spot | 20:39 | |
| sp3000 | in the middle of the screen? :) | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | center of the screen | 20:39 |
| Shapeshifter | adding "buzzing sound from 3.5mm plug" to list. | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | lol jinx | 20:40 |
| Myrtti | ShadowJK: sideway sticking, oh yes. | 20:40 |
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| ShadowJK | hah | 20:40 |
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| ShadowJK | it wouldn't be so bad if there still existed L shaped headphone plugs, but after iphone those became extinct <g> | 20:41 |
| timeless_mbp | oops | 20:41 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 20:41 | |
| ShadowJK | hm | 20:41 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: i merged an incomplete script into my release :(~ | 20:41 |
| Myrtti | http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/2329783976/ | 20:41 |
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| Speedevil | I went sxo far as to make a low profile l. fun | 20:41 |
| Myrtti | making pouches for the N95 is a feat of design because of that bloody hole | 20:41 |
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| ShadowJK | Myrtti, lol | 20:42 |
| ShadowJK | Presumably the play/pause/etc controls actually work, though :) | 20:42 |
| Myrtti | ShadowJK: not if your phone autolocks... | 20:42 |
| jebba | hmm, map program (OVI) is in Spanish (my default language), but the maps themselves are english.... | 20:42 |
| Myrtti | ShadowJK: which I've noticed WAY too many times | 20:42 |
| ShadowJK | oh, my E75 responded to the control even when locked | 20:42 |
| Myrtti | keyboard lock or security code locked? | 20:43 |
| odin_ | redeeman, du -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/ = 2008 (not 10Mb) also /etc/localtime is the most important part | 20:43 |
| ShadowJK | in fact, the only sensible thing was to lock it manually. If you just left it in pocket, the accelerometer would make it flip between portrait and landscape, burning cpu on that and burning power on never switching off the backlight :-) | 20:43 |
| ShadowJK | Myrtti, keyboard lock | 20:43 |
| redeeman | odin_: i said zoneinfo combined with locales | 20:44 |
| Myrtti | ShadowJK: yeah, if only using keyboard lock, then they worked, but I keep my phone autolocking with security key | 20:44 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 20:44 |
| ShadowJK | Back to that converter thing... when feeding it off of N810 charger, the converter seems to run at about 50C for me? | 20:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | jebba: hrm | 20:45 |
| timeless_mbp | where are you mapping? | 20:45 |
| ShadowJK | You'd think they put a linear voltage regulator in there... | 20:45 |
| sp3000 | I'm not sure if it makes sense to require the key for dedicated media buttons... | 20:45 |
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| jebba | timeless_mbp: just basical things like "South Pacific Ocean". Note, the first time I ran the app, i had english set, but i have switched over to spanish since then (and have rebooted etc) | 20:46 |
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| jebba | or even "South America" .... as it is calling the continent | 20:46 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 20:46 | |
| odin_ | redeeman, maybe like other linux distros, each locale can be installed independantly, I'm not actually looking for any more space on / but what things seem excessive (i.e. could do better) | 20:47 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: if you zoom in on brazil, or argentina, what does it say? | 20:47 |
| redeeman | odin_: ok, it just sounded like you wanted to remove stuff, and you can certainly remove lots of locales you'll never need | 20:47 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: note that for Ukraine, the maps showed me stuff in Ukrainian (when they didn't say "Undefined") | 20:48 |
| killefiz | are n900 end-user-support questions on-topic in here? | 20:48 |
| * RST38h has no problems being shown stuff in Ukrainian. Is it a problem? | 20:48 | |
| timeless_mbp | killefiz: software support, yes | 20:48 |
| timeless_mbp | hardware support, no | 20:48 |
| timeless_mbp | -- call nokia care | 20:48 |
| RST38h | killefiz: Questions are on topic, answers are not | 20:48 |
| killefiz | I'm looking for a way to import contacts from a csv-file | 20:49 |
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| RST38h | convert it to vcard format, then import vcard | 20:49 |
| timeless_mbp | import it to outlook and use pcsuite or mfe | 20:49 |
| odin_ | redeeman, localepurge (a debian tool, I wonder if the package management has a way to metatag individual files being locale specific, and then just not install them when no relevant | 20:49 |
| killefiz | I don't have windows | 20:50 |
| timeless_mbp | so use RST38h 's suggestion | 20:50 |
| * timeless_mbp sigh | 20:50 | |
| killefiz | timeless_mbp: sure - how Do I import multiple vcards then? | 20:50 |
| sp3000 | was it possible to concatenate vcards into one file or somesuch? | 20:51 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 20:51 |
| timeless_mbp | but wikipedia fail @explaining that | 20:51 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: well, zooming in on buenos aires gives the street names in spanish and such, but there's not even english names for them.... | 20:51 |
| Speedevil | hmm | 20:51 |
| Myrtti | jebba: what, ovi maps? | 20:52 |
| jebba | yes | 20:52 |
| Myrtti | jebba: it's dead, Jim. | 20:52 |
| RST38h | Is there a problem with Spanish names? They look ok to me. | 20:52 |
| jebba | ya, that's true. | 20:52 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: "...you take its tricorder, and I will take its purse" | 20:52 |
| Speedevil | keyboard with gloves o | 20:52 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: we come in peace, shoot to kill | 20:52 |
| Speedevil | n o | 20:52 |
| jebba | RST38h: i'm saying the map data is in english (E.g. "South America") even when system is set to spanish. | 20:52 |
| Speedevil | is m | 20:53 |
| * RST38h finally found a place to use this phrase | 20:53 | |
| jebba | "Brazil" not "Brasil" etc. | 20:53 |
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| Speedevil | not u | 20:53 |
| RST38h | jebba: Yea, GMaps has the same kind of problems | 20:53 |
| Speedevil | actually, it is pretty unusab.e | 20:54 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: i think what you'll find is that places are only given one name | 20:54 |
| RST38h | jebba: The map data probably lacks the complete set of translations so the system shows whatever it has got | 20:54 |
| jebba | .... | 20:54 |
| timeless_mbp | translating all the regions into each language is wasteful | 20:54 |
| Speedevil | openstreetmap is better in principle | 20:54 |
| sp3000 | Speedevil: yeah the gloves eat the tactile feedback so knowing what keys you're on gets pretty impossible | 20:54 |
| timeless_mbp | now, the fact that they don't translate continents is probably unfortunate | 20:55 |
| * RST38h only ever had problems with untranslated names in Taiwan | 20:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | but it certainly simplifies implementation | 20:55 |
| RST38h | Spanish, Russian, Ukrainian,they are all ok | 20:55 |
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| tigert | RST38h: Seoul subway map was scary too | 20:55 |
| Speedevil | sp3 more that they were stopping me getting to the top row | 20:55 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: what happened in taiwan? | 20:55 |
| sp3000 | so it looks like there's the "local" layer of names and the "global" one and the latter is in english? | 20:55 |
| RST38h | hierogyphs | 20:55 |
| jebba | if OVI maps is goign to be shitcanned, which map program should i be focusing on? | 20:55 |
| timeless_mbp | jebba: maemo mapper | 20:55 |
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| * RST38h has figured a few (for north, south, up, down, exit, etc) but that wasn't enough | 20:55 | |
| sp3000 | which kinda makes sense, except that the global set coundl be localized, and, um, my chinese isn't that good either so I could use seomething more pronounceable there | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: maemo mapper or twaeti's webapp | 20:56 |
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| tigert | depends on what you want | 20:57 |
| jebba | ah cool, maemo mapper does it correctly ("Brasil") :) | 20:57 |
| tigert | ecoach works ok too | 20:57 |
| RST38h | Brazil, Brasil, who cares... | 20:58 |
| sp3000 | ok, well, the chinese bits are in latin alphabet in this case so it's workable for me ;) | 20:58 |
| jebba | RST38h: well, that was just one example... | 20:58 |
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| RST38h | jebba: Most European languages use phonetic transcription (more or less) | 20:58 |
| RST38h | jebba: So, it is still readable, in whatever language | 20:59 |
| jebba | looks like they are just using whatever the country calls itself. Because it has "United States of America" not Estados Unidos, etc. | 20:59 |
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| ruskie | http://sprunge.us/YUNJ <-- anyone able to help out with a modest build problem? | 20:59 |
| jebba | RST38h: yes, if you read Farsi, you can find Iran! | 20:59 |
| tigert | hmm | 21:00 |
| tigert | would be nice if ssh-agent was run in the tablet | 21:00 |
| tigert | I wonder how well it behaves wrt battery | 21:00 |
| timeless | tigert: eh | 21:00 |
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| timeless | agent should be roughly free | 21:01 |
| jebba | literally. Iran isn't written "Iran", it is written in an arabic script (!) | 21:01 |
| jebba | same with afghanistan, etc. (some are written in both, like Libya, Iraq just with Latin script). Interesting. | 21:01 |
| timeless | this is maemo mapper or ovi maps? | 21:02 |
| jebba | maemo mapper. I've ditched OVI now :) | 21:02 |
| timeless | maemo mapper isnh't really maps | 21:02 |
| timeless | it's a generic client | 21:02 |
| tigert | maemo mapper can display pretty much any map | 21:02 |
| timeless | you might be using google maps or openstreet or | 21:03 |
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| jebba | yes, i suppose is due to how openstreet is doing it. It is actually pretty cool this way, but still a bit difficult. I wonder how good it would be for travelling in Tokyo, for example. | 21:03 |
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| * jebba goes to check | 21:03 | |
| Arkenoi | seems that google is not likely to support n900 by their own effort, at least we haven't hear anything about it | 21:04 |
| luke-jr | why would they? | 21:04 |
| * Arkenoi misses gmail much and calendar sync | 21:04 | |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: your fault for using broken webapps | 21:04 |
| RST38h | ? | 21:04 |
| Arkenoi | they do for a variety of phones | 21:04 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: phones that pay them royalties... | 21:04 |
| RST38h | try macuco? | 21:04 |
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| Arkenoi | luke-jr, does ms pay? nokia for s60 models? | 21:05 |
| tigert | Arkenoi: eh | 21:05 |
| tigert | Arkenoi: use the google activesync? | 21:05 |
| RST38h | how does a phone pay someone royalty? | 21:05 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: likely? | 21:05 |
| tigert | it syncs my googlecalendar fine | 21:05 |
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| tigert | mail has problems (some exchange protocol issue maybe) | 21:06 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: when did MS make a phone? | 21:06 |
| tigert | but that works via imap | 21:06 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: the company that made it, obviously | 21:06 |
| ShadowJK | weren't they going to make a round one | 21:06 |
| jebba | ah tokyo (with openstreetmaps) is in japanese and latin script | 21:06 |
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| RST38h | luke | 21:06 |
| RST38h | : prooflink? | 21:06 |
| Arkenoi | tigert, does not really work :-( | 21:06 |
| tigert | Arkenoi: it doesnt? | 21:06 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: if Google doesn't get royalties, why do they sue people for 'pirating' their apps? | 21:06 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, and no google maps anyways | 21:07 |
| luke-jr | or threaten to, anyhow | 21:07 |
| RST38h | no prooflink, luke? | 21:07 |
| Arkenoi | tigert, does not with mine, and it is not officially supported | 21:07 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: you can search just as well as I can | 21:07 |
| RST38h | no prooflink, ok. | 21:07 |
| tigert | Arkenoi: ok | 21:08 |
| ruskie | luke-jr, because those people don't respect terms of service | 21:08 |
| Arkenoi | anything that can talk to google maps api? to share location? | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | Arkenoi: Ok, let us go over things | 21:09 |
| Colinde | Hi! | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | hi Colinde | 21:09 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: For GMail you can either use Macuco, or Modest over IMAP, or Google's mobile web interface | 21:09 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: Google can't write proper code for beans; don't expect their stuff to work outside their few "supported" environments | 21:09 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Both Macuco and web interface will look pretty much like that app | 21:09 |
| Paltti | lo, i'm trying to flash my bricked n900 with windows xp, after giving the command "flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R" cmd prompt only says "RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM: %m" - what I do wrong? | 21:09 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, modest over imap does not really push | 21:09 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Neither does that Google app on S60 | 21:10 |
| RST38h | Not for me anyway | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | Paltti: that looks a bit weird.. | 21:10 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Now, for maps, use Maemo Mapper | 21:10 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Note that it fetches Googgle maps via a URL set in the settings | 21:10 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: If Google changes that URL, you have to find and use the new one | 21:11 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, maemo mapper does not support latitude and way slower than ovi maps, so i do not see any advantages :-( | 21:11 |
| kynky | thought one of reasons google sued ppl for using gmaps data was because of the licensing agreement google had with its satelite imagining provider | 21:11 |
| RST38h | Otherwise, use OpenStreetMap or MS Virtual Earth or yahoo Maps (all three available from MaemoMapper) | 21:11 |
| Arkenoi | i do not really need map from google | 21:11 |
| Arkenoi | i want to share location with google map | 21:11 |
| timeless | a vaguely responsive maintainer and much better map data | 21:11 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: No, it does not support latitude (neither does ovi maps afaik) but it is not slower than Ovi Maps | 21:11 |
| Arkenoi | who provides the map itself is not relevant for me | 21:11 |
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| * timeless shrugs | 21:12 | |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, i tried it, it was painful to navigate and slow :-( | 21:12 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Well, if you can program, why not write a script that will read your location and send it to Google via their web api? | 21:12 |
| * Colinde is AFK | 21:12 | |
| timeless | when you're stuck in the capital of Ukraine and you map only shows 1 + 1/2 roads, you'll change your mind | 21:12 |
| kynky | and one of reasons i thought google supported s60 devices for google apps was because s60 is biggest mobile platform out there | 21:13 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, thinking on it, is it documented? | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: ovi or osm? | 21:13 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: google search? | 21:13 |
| timeless | ovi | 21:13 |
| timeless | try the web version | 21:13 |
| timeless | the data is common | 21:13 |
| RST38h | Why would ANYONE want to see roads in Kiev? | 21:13 |
| sp3000 | two roads oughta be enough for anyone | 21:14 |
| RST38h | When all you need is a subway map and the location of the main intercity bus station? | 21:14 |
| timeless | rst38h: helpful if you want to get around... | 21:14 |
| suihkulokki | RST38h: do you know if latitude is based on gtalk + the jabber location standard or if latitude is completly separate? | 21:14 |
| timeless | rst: good luck getting that from this map | 21:14 |
| RST38h | suihkulokki: No idea, but I will check in a moment | 21:14 |
| * RST38h never ever needed a map in Kiev. You get off the subway at the center and walk around. | 21:15 | |
| timeless | Ovi Maps is not available on Maemo mobile device | 21:15 |
| timeless | To use Ovi Maps on your Maemo device, please use the version that is installed on your phone. | 21:15 |
| * timeless sighs | 21:15 | |
| Arkenoi | if it was based on jabber location standard, we'd get correct position when connecting to gtalk with builtin IM | 21:15 |
| timeless | and error message written by a finn | 21:15 |
| * Stskeeps wonders who designed ovi maps and who to beat | 21:15 | |
| timeless | sui: your people suck | 21:15 |
| timeless | stskeeps: gate5 berlin, as i explained @summit | 21:16 |
| suihkulokki | timeless: doubt so, the finnish translation of that error message is horrible too :P | 21:16 |
| sp3000 | timeless, it's worse in finnish :) | 21:16 |
| kynky | thought ovi maps 3.0 was supposed to be ok | 21:16 |
| RST38h | Interesting: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=0b261499d30e1165&hl=en | 21:16 |
| RST38h | So, no official API | 21:16 |
| timeless | You can find it in the applications menu. | 21:16 |
| timeless | Ovi Maps for Web isn't accessible from your Maemo device browser. | 21:16 |
| sp3000 | something like, ovi maps is not available for the browser maemo mobile device | 21:16 |
| timeless | sp3000: did they do the background image on this error page properly? :) | 21:17 |
| jani | what ovi service is actually accessible and usuable from/for maemo ? | 21:17 |
| timeless | jani: files? | 21:18 |
| kynky | ovi maps 1.0 for n900 | 21:18 |
| jani | uu! | 21:18 |
| timeless | sp3000: did you say files worked? | 21:18 |
| jani | ;) | 21:18 |
| sp3000 | dunno | 21:18 |
| sp3000 | we do link to it :) | 21:18 |
| Gadgetoid | hmm battery tending toward the low end after a day of tinkering | 21:19 |
| RST38h | suihkulokki, Arkenoi: http://code.google.com/apis/gears/geolocation_network_protocol.html | 21:19 |
| RST38h | Here you go | 21:19 |
| timeless | we link to store.ovi.miobi | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | jani: i'm personally waiting for community to set up their own maemo.org Maps, Store | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:19 |
| jani | well, i would have cared only for contacts .. got 200 numbers in ovi contacts and not really looking forward to write them manually back to the device | 21:19 |
| jani | stskeeps: maybe call it a windows ? =)) | 21:19 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: If I set up a store, will you pay me 30% to resell your app? :) | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: if you handled credit card processing for micropayments, maybe | 21:20 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: No, just normal payments | 21:21 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Unless you want to pay cc company $1 for each micropayment of course | 21:21 |
| jebba | omg, appears maemo-optify-buildpackage works :) | 21:22 |
| killefiz | timeless: I found an iphone app that exported all my contacts as one vcf and the n900 contacts app was then able to import it in one go -> Problem solved, thanks | 21:23 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: well, and i have to send properly crafted request to google maps web interface for this location to be fixed | 21:23 |
| sp3000 | where did you need a location? | 21:24 |
| timeless | iirc that was rst38h's suggestion | 21:24 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: I will search a bit more for the API that sends lat/lon instead | 21:24 |
| Myrtti | hm | 21:25 |
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| RST38h | Arkenoi, suihkulokki: http://www.google.com/latitude/apps/badge | 21:26 |
| RST38h | Here. Feed. | 21:26 |
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| M3n70r | hello from n800 | 21:28 |
| timeless | Hi from n900 | 21:29 |
| wao | \o/ | 21:29 |
| wao | :D | 21:29 |
| wao | hi from macbook pro. | 21:29 |
| Gadgetoid | woo yay go you | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | hi from the world of tomorrow! | 21:30 |
| woglinde | hi stskeeps | 21:30 |
| jani | hello from my balcony! | 21:31 |
| Arkenoi | is n900 jabber client location info xep-0080 compliant? | 21:31 |
| sejo | <-- couchpotato | 21:31 |
| loft306 | hello world | 21:32 |
| woglinde | hm | 21:32 |
| timeless | isn't world of tomorrow (c) disney? | 21:32 |
| woglinde | my libglu/es porting seems to compile | 21:32 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: it is reverse thing: publish latitude info on the web | 21:32 |
| RST38h | yea, I have figured it out already :( | 21:33 |
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| jebba | woglinde: congrats rad :) | 21:34 |
| pillar | http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/download.html <- is that really the newest sdk image? It looks like it's still using beta2 of the sdk instead of final | 21:34 |
| Venomrush | i ran out of rootfs space | 21:35 |
| Venomrush | what can i do? | 21:35 |
| RST38h | remove stuff | 21:35 |
| timeless | so files.ovi seems to indicate it works on mobile devices :) | 21:35 |
| jani | remove the packages you installed and file a bug against the package for improper install location | 21:35 |
| woglinde | jebba compiling is not running | 21:36 |
| timeless | calculate space wasted on rootfs per package first | 21:36 |
| timeless | then file bugs and uninstall | 21:36 |
| Arkenoi | what exactly does "share your location" in n900 im do? if it is not xep-0080, then what is it? | 21:36 |
| RST38h | Who knows... | 21:36 |
| odin_ | is someone looking into making maemo.org have a single login page for all the sub-domains ? | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: yes, SSO | 21:36 |
| odin_ | well just a cookie set as $Domain=maemo.org would help | 21:37 |
| jani | ovi has the same issue afaik. | 21:37 |
| jani | odin_: well, forum and wiki doesnt share accounts with each other atleast | 21:37 |
| timeless | odin: a shared cookie doesn't fix much | 21:38 |
| timeless | esp when most services have distinct account databases | 21:38 |
| jebba | Arkenoi: it says where you are in "Conversations" for one. | 21:38 |
| RST38h | jani: which is a good thing because at least bugzilla and talk logins STAY | 21:38 |
| Venomrush | timeless: how do i calcuate the space wasted on rootfs per package? | 21:38 |
| jani | so its not that straight forward .. atleast i had to create account for both before i could log in. | 21:38 |
| odin_ | talk.maemo.org verses maemo.org (it would go most of the way to fixing) | 21:38 |
| Venomrush | timeless: not quite sure hwo to check if package is optified or not | 21:38 |
| timeless | venomrush: someone here had a script for it | 21:39 |
| RST38h | du /usr/share | sort -rn |more | 21:39 |
| Arkenoi | jebba: well, there is proper way to do it, xep-0080 ;-) and it just sets status message instead or something? | 21:39 |
| Venomrush | how do u type | on n900?? | 21:40 |
| * RST38h facepalms | 21:40 | |
| odin_ | Venomrush, pat yet head and rub ya belly :P | 21:40 |
| jebba | it sets status message, ya. Arkenoi | 21:40 |
| Jaffa | Venomrush: grep ^/opt /var/lib/dpkg/info/somepackage.list && echo 'optified' | 21:40 |
| timeless | i'd probably do dpkg -l -pipe- xargs -n1 dpkg -l -pipe- grev -v /opt/ -pipe- ls -lf -pipe- grev -- ^-rw -pipe- xargs du -sh | 21:40 |
| odin_ | ~pipe | 21:40 |
| timeless | roughly | 21:40 |
| timeless | some extra bits and a bit of perl | 21:40 |
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| jebba | timeless dpkg: conflicting actions -p (--print-avail) and -l (--list) | 21:41 |
| Venomrush | ok i can't figure out how to type ^ and | in terminal | 21:41 |
| Venomrush | no keys on the keyboard :\ | 21:42 |
| jebba | Venomrush: hold down Fn-Ctrl | 21:42 |
| jebba | Fn= blue arrow | 21:42 |
| RST38h | Venomrush: there is only one solution for you then | 21:42 |
| RST38h | REFLASH | 21:42 |
| timeless | jebba: typing pipe here is hard. | 21:42 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically | 21:42 | |
| jebba | ah hahaah | 21:42 |
| jebba | gotcha | 21:42 |
| jebba | i just click and paste man, nothing more | 21:42 |
| Venomrush | ah got it | 21:43 |
| kynky | xmodmap might be helpful too | 21:43 |
| timeless | you'll need to split it a bit | 21:43 |
| timeless | because as is, you'd get totals but no package labels | 21:43 |
| jani | didnt the old xterm have ability to put some chars into the bottom bar? | 21:43 |
| timeless | which is obviously not very helpful | 21:44 |
| timeless | yes | 21:44 |
| timeless | gone | 21:44 |
| ruskie | jani, the current one has it as well | 21:44 |
| ruskie | through gconftool-2 | 21:44 |
| ruskie | it's on talk | 21:44 |
| kynky | gotta say droid sans mono looks nice in xterm | 21:44 |
| Venomrush | the ^ just got selected and is not being entered | 21:44 |
| Venomrush | :\ | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | Venomrush: press space | 21:45 |
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| ruskie | jani, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=386536 | 21:45 |
| Venomrush | wow :\ some magic terminal | 21:45 |
| ruskie | Venomrush, for ^ and a few others you need to hit them and hit space | 21:46 |
| odin_ | ~pipe | 21:46 |
| jani | ruskie: thanks, mainly i thought it would be good solution for venomrush | 21:46 |
| odin_ | infobot is offline/drunk ? | 21:46 |
| Venomrush | thanks everyone | 21:46 |
| timeless | venomrush: that row is a row of deadkeys | 21:46 |
| timeless | it lets you compose e.g. C" | 21:47 |
| * timeless doubts that survived | 21:47 | |
| RST38h | Yeaaaaa, that deadkey row was a reeeeally smart idea | 21:47 |
| RST38h | No user EVER is going to figure that one out | 21:47 |
| ruskie | I didn't | 21:47 |
| timeless | basically most vowels can in one language or another be composed with various symbols | 21:47 |
| ruskie | had to go search about it | 21:48 |
| timeless | rst: depends on your locale | 21:48 |
| timeless | soome locales actually use deadkeys | 21:48 |
| Venomrush | has that been logged at all? | 21:48 |
| RST38h | My locale is English (US) with the second locale Russian | 21:48 |
| Venomrush | or plan to get it fixed? | 21:48 |
| jebba | woo hoo! asterisk 1.6.1.11 optified & working :) | 21:48 |
| RST38h | NEITHER uses deadkeys | 21:48 |
| timeless | so optimistically, 2% of our users will understand it | 21:48 |
| RST38h | Yes, this misfeature is still there | 21:48 |
| derf | I just want a us_intl keymap with a real Compose key. | 21:48 |
| * ruskie can live without optification... love repartitioning | 21:49 | |
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| Venomrush | i ran grep ^/opt /var/lib/dpkg/info/somepackage.list && echo 'optified' | 21:49 |
| Venomrush | taking quite a while | 21:49 |
| timeless | derf: i'd love to sacrifice GBP and EUR in exchange for anything | 21:49 |
| Venomrush | i did saw the script someone made | 21:49 |
| Venomrush | but its in python | 21:49 |
| derf | timeless: That, too. | 21:49 |
| Venomrush | and for OS2007 | 21:49 |
| ruskie | Venomrush, and I've run: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=411490&postcount=51 | 21:49 |
| Venomrush | does it work on maemo 5? | 21:49 |
| ruskie | :) | 21:49 |
| RST38h | BTW, this guy probably does not understand the effects of command line instructions you are giving him | 21:49 |
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| Venomrush | *did see | 21:50 |
| derf | Especially since if I had Compose I could type them anyway. | 21:50 |
| timeless | rst: i think we noticed :) | 21:50 |
| RST38h | If I were a bit younger, I would use that to my advantage =) | 21:50 |
| RST38h | (hint hint) | 21:50 |
| jani | lol | 21:50 |
| Venomrush | youre right | 21:50 |
| Venomrush | i dont understand what it does | 21:50 |
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| RST38h | for example, there is a sequence of those commands that will guarantee him 100% free on / | 21:51 |
| timeless | venomrush: a piece of free advice: never copy random text from irc | 21:51 |
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| derf | RST38h: Not until he reboots. | 21:51 |
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| v2n900 | my second day with the n900 and its still pure love :3 | 21:53 |
| Venomrush | youre all assuming i'm a 'he'? | 21:53 |
| ruskie | isn't assuming that at all | 21:53 |
| timeless | venomrush: by your nick, yes | 21:53 |
| timeless | not a very feminine name imo | 21:53 |
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| odin_ | you've obviously not met a british bird then | 21:54 |
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| jani | odin_: lol | 21:54 |
| crashanddie_mbp | what's wrong with british birds? | 21:54 |
| sejo | crashanddie_mbp: their brittisch | 21:55 |
| jebba | is `sudo reboot` an ok way to reboot this thing or should some other foo be done? | 21:55 |
| jebba | so how to get rid of the lame hand-holding thing at boot too, btw? | 21:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | sejo: learn to write | 21:55 |
| sejo | they are I mean | 21:55 |
| RST38h | Venomrush: I would assume "it", but it would sound insulting | 21:55 |
| timeless | i sadly haven't h# the pleasure of an extended companionship with one, no | 21:55 |
| sejo | crashanddie_mbp: doing my best | 21:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | sejo: that your best? ;) | 21:55 |
| sejo | crashanddie_mbp: not native english so pipe it | 21:55 |
| timeless | jebba: /etc/hildon-welcome.d | 21:55 |
| simula_n900 | heh | 21:56 |
| crashanddie_mbp | sejo: neither am I, so get a grip | 21:56 |
| jani | jebba: some blog posts just said that there's a conf file that you can edit to remove or replace the the anim at boot | 21:56 |
| RST38h | Using old fashioned gender-neutral "they" would mess things up | 21:56 |
| * ruskie just did apt-get remove hildon-welcome ;) | 21:56 | |
| ruskie | to get rid of the handholding | 21:56 |
| timeless | crash: i've got an updated engb1, please try | 21:56 |
| simula_n900 | awe | 21:56 |
| simula_n900 | awesome | 21:56 |
| crashanddie_mbp | loads of new blood in this channel I see | 21:56 |
| sejo | crashanddie_mbp: reread the freenode guidelines... would be appreciated | 21:56 |
| crashanddie_mbp | timeless: sorry? | 21:56 |
| timeless | simula: the advanced options can now be fast if you pick fewer locales :) | 21:57 |
| Venomrush | sorry, about the script, didn't get an answer, it was for OS07 | 21:57 |
| RST38h | Using new fashioned gender-neutral "he/she" would waste a slash and be vaguely offensive to homosexuals | 21:57 |
| Venomrush | can we run it on maemo | 21:57 |
| timeless | crash: you have an n900, no? | 21:57 |
| crashanddie_mbp | timeless: aye | 21:57 |
| RST38h | Venomrush: So, "he" you are for now, for the lack of fuller information | 21:57 |
| crashanddie_mbp | RST38h: just use "it" | 21:58 |
| Venomrush | yeah | 21:58 |
| Venomrush | it sounds good | 21:58 |
| timeless | .query crashanddie_mbp | 21:58 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: I have covered "it", see above =) | 21:58 |
| Venomrush | im not sure what i am | 21:58 |
| Venomrush | :p | 21:58 |
| odin_ | must be british | 21:58 |
| simula_n900 | so much gender angst | 21:58 |
| Venomrush | so... | 21:59 |
| Venomrush | about the script, didn't get an answer, it was for OS07 | 21:59 |
| Venomrush | can we run it on maemo | 21:59 |
| Venomrush | 5 | 21:59 |
| Venomrush | with pymaemo | 21:59 |
| crashanddie_mbp | Venomrush: will depend on the APIs it's using | 22:00 |
| * simula_n900 is going to test his new start-up | 22:00 | |
| crashanddie_mbp | Venomrush: best way to find out is just to try it out | 22:00 |
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| * timeless ponders | 22:01 | |
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| odin_ | why does N900 have /floppy ? | 22:02 |
| timeless | odin: debian heritage? | 22:02 |
| jebba | so can `/usr/bin/hildon-welcome.launch` use jpgs or just .avi? | 22:02 |
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| timeless | jebba: i'd assume only things w/ a length | 22:03 |
| simula_n900 | the new start-up rocks, thanks folks | 22:03 |
| timeless | since afaiu it pauses until it finishes | 22:03 |
| timeless | siula: are you using the rotating maemo? | 22:03 |
| timeless | s/iu/imu/ | 22:03 |
| simula_n900 | rotating? | 22:04 |
| * timeless has been planning to package that | 22:04 | |
| jani | any gotchas to workout why i cant get apt-get update to work with fremantle sdk ? | 22:04 |
| simula_n900 | stock machine so far, just some apps | 22:04 |
| timeless | jani: /etc/resolv.conf | 22:04 |
| jani | got resolver fixed but apt hangs to "0% [Connecting to repository.maemo.org]" | 22:04 |
| timeless | jani: /etc/nsswitch.conf | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf | 22:05 |
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| jebba | #define DEFAULT_VIDEO_PIPELINE_STR " playbin2 uri=file://%s " /* " flags=99 " <-- doesn't work with still images */ | 22:05 |
| timeless | simula: so which new startup? | 22:05 |
| * simula_n900 is waiting for his microsdhc so that i can turn my n900 into a dev box | 22:05 | |
| jani | stskeeps: yes indeed.. | 22:05 |
| simula_n900 | timeless, the hildon-welcome free start-up :) | 22:06 |
| timeless | =me warns simula about the hazards of self references from the third person | 22:06 |
| jani | that it was.. | 22:06 |
| * timeless warns simula about the hazards of self references from the third person | 22:06 | |
| * timeless sighs | 22:06 | |
| simula_n900 | heh | 22:06 |
| timeless | typing is hard, i'm going home | 22:06 |
| crashanddie_mbp | get a softer keyboard | 22:07 |
| simula_n900 | heh | 22:07 |
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| odin_ | crashanddie_mbp, timeless_mbp what is _mbp all about ? | 22:07 |
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| * timeless wonders if people have guessed this client's cmdchar | 22:07 | |
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| timeless | macbook pro | 22:07 |
| crashanddie_mbp | odin_: macbook pro | 22:07 |
| konttori | jebba: that launch thingy is a flash video | 22:09 |
| timeless | in days of old, people would say, my other computer's a cray | 22:09 |
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| timeless | but as we grow, now we say, my olther computer's a macbook pro | 22:10 |
| kynky | a good way of checking to see if a package is optified is to d/l the .deb and extract it ? (as in no other way to find out unless to d/l) | 22:10 |
| simula_n900 | my other computer's a pic | 22:10 |
| timeless | kynky: check the .diff | 22:10 |
| jebba | konttori the launchy thing is an .avi. You can just comment it out of /etc/hildon-welcome.d/default.conf | 22:11 |
| kynky | timeless, cheers | 22:11 |
| jebba | it will play any gstreamer video, but not still images. | 22:11 |
| konttori | are you talking about the nokia hands? | 22:11 |
| simula_n900 | yulps | 22:11 |
| odin_ | animated GIFs ? | 22:11 |
| konttori | I thought you meant the tutorial. Sorry | 22:11 |
| timeless | kynky: depends on who packaged how of course | 22:11 |
| konttori | the hands avi is a h264 video | 22:11 |
| timeless | my packages are generally opt friendly, but have no upsrtream and thus no diff | 22:12 |
| konttori | hey, what's the best way for me to optify the themes created by theme maker? | 22:12 |
| konttori | create a mount --bind and put that to event.d? | 22:12 |
| timeless | how many files does thememaker make? | 22:12 |
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| konttori | around 500-600 | 22:13 |
| timeless | if every package bind mounts, we're going to suffer | 22:13 |
| konttori | are you recomending hard links? | 22:13 |
| kynky | well i think new mplayer is optified because i just gained alot of free space on root, and also finding out if openarena is optified, which im suspecting it is | 22:13 |
| konttori | I can do that relatively easily | 22:13 |
| timeless | hard links can't cross file systemjs | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: /usr/share/themes/themename -> /opt/whatever/themename | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | (imho) | 22:13 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: yeah, but how to create the link | 22:13 |
| timeless | personally, i have my own control panel | 22:14 |
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| konttori | so, if not hard links, then what? | 22:14 |
| timeless | and it manages importing to/deporting from the rootfs | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: ln -s /foobar foo works even if /foobar doesn't exist | 22:14 |
| kynky | if you have access to source you can do anything :) | 22:15 |
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| sivang | that's right | 22:15 |
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| konttori | ok, so symlink. Do I need to recreate that on boot? | 22:15 |
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| kynky | symlink is like a small file created on fs | 22:15 |
| konttori | I had a feeling they didn't work on themes | 22:16 |
| timeless | symlink is a real file | 22:16 |
| timeless | it just points to a path | 22:16 |
| timeless | and most system apis automatically resolve them, more or less | 22:16 |
| timeless | but for a them, i'd worry about performance | 22:16 |
| timeless | does the acrtive theme end up cached? | 22:17 |
| valdyn | konttori: symlinks are special files, hard links are not, hard links are like normal files | 22:17 |
| timeless | err | 22:17 |
| timeless | hardlinks are identical directory entries to the same original data | 22:17 |
| timeless | they aren't really 'like filea' | 22:18 |
| valdyn | konttori: and you cannot tell which of both is the "real" file and which is the hard link, both are equivalent | 22:18 |
| kynky | i softlink my q3a datafiles from 27GB fat partition to /home/user/.q3a/ | 22:18 |
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| sivang | for all those that were interested, IMA finally put the slides online | 22:18 |
| sivang | http://imaworld.org/?CategoryID=660 | 22:18 |
| sivang | there's the Qt stuff there as well | 22:18 |
| Speedevil | Warning!!! Do not install 'enigma'. It makes you carazy! | 22:18 |
| sivang | redeeman: ^^^ | 22:18 |
| timeless | they're merely indistinguishable pointers to the same file-data | 22:18 |
| valdyn | timeless: they cant even be told apart | 22:18 |
| sivang | redeeman: http://imaworld.org/_Uploads/dbsAttachedFiles/Qt_Sami.pdf | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: better idea.. make the symlink in a postinst and remove it in a prerm | 22:21 |
| kynky | well new mplayer definately optified :) | 22:21 |
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| AakashPatel | jaem_, ping | 22:23 |
| timeless | kontorri: fwiw, i make my symlinks in pre | 22:24 |
| sivang | anybody know where the auto-login attributes lies in gconf ? | 22:24 |
| timeless | or was it post, whichever | 22:24 |
| sejo | hmm since adding my jabber account to the n900 ejabberd complains about memory issues hmmm | 22:24 |
| sivang | I'd like to force users to log in to the phone | 22:24 |
| timeless | sivang: device lock? | 22:25 |
| homeasvs_ | does anyone know why sbox detects host as arm-unknown-linux-gnueabi | 22:25 |
| homeasvs_ | while the phone itself detects arm-unknown-linux-unknown ? | 22:25 |
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| derf | homeasvs_: All I know is that, on the machine itself | 22:26 |
| derf | MACHTYPE=arm-unknown-linux-gnueabi | 22:26 |
| arachnist | "arm"? not armv7l? | 22:26 |
| timeless | old detection script? | 22:26 |
| homeasvs_ | derf, hm, I'm trying to figure out why a package build or erlang works fine for x86, but fails in sbox, hanging on the first erlc invocation, when done for armel | 22:26 |
| sivang | timeless: no, I just want to use the login feature of the login manager, or maybe it does not come with a login manager? | 22:27 |
| sivang | timeless: like plain gnome... | 22:27 |
| Noma | http://www.miika.name/n900/irssi.desktop <- can someone say why this is not working? | 22:27 |
| timeless | maemo is not gnome | 22:27 |
| derf | homeasvs_: erlc does something qemu doesn't like? | 22:27 |
| derf | Hard to say. | 22:27 |
| sivang | timeless: right, I'd make it so :) | 22:28 |
| homeasvs_ | derf, most likely; I already had to work around an unimplemented syscall 242 (setaffinity) | 22:28 |
| homeasvs_ | derf, but I have no idea how to figure out what exactly fails, or how I can work around it | 22:28 |
| derf | Well, that one you can probably safely ignore. | 22:28 |
| timeless | sivang: mer? | 22:28 |
| AakashPatel | what packages do i need to install to make qt apps run on the device/ | 22:28 |
| timeless | but, mostly pointless | 22:28 |
| timeless | physical access = root | 22:29 |
| sivang | timeless: I will install the login manager (screen manager) | 22:29 |
| derf | homeasvs_: I had similar difficulties trying to get a newer version of qemu to run. | 22:29 |
| homeasvs_ | derf, similar as in hanging at some point ? | 22:29 |
| derf | If you try to run af-sb-init.sh, you can see lots of other things that fail. | 22:29 |
| derf | homeasvs_: Right. | 22:29 |
| homeasvs_ | derf, hm, then maybe I should stop banging my head against this wall and figure out some other solution | 22:29 |
| timeless | .desktop should run xterm | 22:29 |
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| derf | homeasvs_: Compile on the device? | 22:30 |
| kynky | timeless, been looking for a diff on http://repository.maemo.org , for mplayer , can only seem to find the .deb .dsc .tar.gz , also looked on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/mplayer/1.0svn3/ , just wandering where standard place for .diff would be ? | 22:30 |
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| homeasvs_ | I guess since erlang is bytecode, I should be able to use all generated files from the x86 build every time the arm build wants to compile | 22:30 |
| Noma | timeless: so should i change "ash" to "xterm"? | 22:30 |
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| homeasvs_ | derf, that seems to fail spectacularly in other ways, it already just hangs on running quilt | 22:30 |
| timeless | roughly | 22:30 |
| timeless | tst the xterm syntax | 22:30 |
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| homeasvs_ | derf, though arguably I didn't find a really good guide for sbrsh on fremantle, so I might be doing some things wrong :) | 22:30 |
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| Noma | timeless: i tried it with xterm, but it didn't do anything. now with ash it just opens an empty window | 22:31 |
| jebba | timeless, ya physical access = root, but an encryped /home would go a looooong way. WOuld be screwed to have fone stolen. | 22:31 |
| derf | There aren't any good guides for anything on fremantle. | 22:31 |
| *** BBNS has joined #maemo | 22:31 | |
| derf | But I meant putting the dev tools on the device, not using it as a CPU transparency method. | 22:31 |
| timeless | derf: how to brick your device? | 22:32 |
| jebba | def http://davestechshop.net/sites/davestechshop.net/files/Nokia_N900_Rover_en-US_es-LAM.pdf ? | 22:32 |
| derf | timeless: I don't need a tutorial for that! | 22:32 |
| derf | I've already done that twice today. | 22:32 |
| jebba | haha | 22:32 |
| homeasvs_ | derf, you mean install compilers and everything on the phone directly ? | 22:32 |
| derf | homeasvs_: Yes. | 22:32 |
| simula_n900 | heh | 22:32 |
| homeasvs_ | derf, hm, I thought some essential packages were missing as they are provided by devkits, but I guess I didn't try that solution hard enough, will see | 22:33 |
| jebba | derf: you probably want to do a scratchbox, since things like diff are broken (missing) on the fone | 22:33 |
| homeasvs_ | something tells me I won't really be using this thing as a phone any time soon :) | 22:33 |
| derf | homeasvs_: It was certainly possible on prior devices. | 22:33 |
| derf | homeasvs_: But I'm not sure any of your options are "easy". | 22:33 |
| redeeman | sivang: ah hello again - well, i did develop my app now | 22:33 |
| jebba | just install the scratchbox on there.... | 22:33 |
| redeeman | sivang: and it works fine, just a few things i need to fix for the N900, but it seems i need a newer Qt for it than the n900 has | 22:34 |
| homeasvs_ | derf, no, I don't think so either... | 22:34 |
| homeasvs_ | jebba, install scratchbox directly on the phone you mean ? | 22:34 |
| derf | homeasvs_: Enlist luck to help you. | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | derf: i think i saw a tutorial for how to void your warranty by dissecting one | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | guided video | 22:34 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: like this: http://pastebin.com/m54ce8efc | 22:34 |
| derf | Err, lcuk. | 22:34 |
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| Nitial | which version of the qt n900 has? isn't it 4.6? | 22:35 |
| derf | He was the one who put his dev environment on the N810. | 22:35 |
| konttori | and the counterpart to prerm | 22:35 |
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| Stskeeps | konttori: no, store everything in opt/themes/themename from theme maker first, and then in postinst ln -s /opt/themes/themename /usr/share/themes/themename | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | this makes the "heavy" part go to /opt first | 22:35 |
| konttori | true enough. | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | Nitial: no | 22:36 |
| sivang | redeeman: cool :) | 22:36 |
| jebba | homeasvs_: ya. I dont think its a good idea to build on the phone, but if you do, you'll probably have to do it in a chroot (scratchbox) to get all the proper tools | 22:36 |
| konttori | will do so. | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | Nitial: mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=qt.*debian/changelog | 22:36 |
| homeasvs_ | jebba, I had no idea that was possible, but I'll give that a try, thanks | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | (sorry if that sounded rude, i probably needed a "it could be an idea" in that sentence :) | 22:36 |
| redeeman | sivang: what i need is to change to portrait, and then have it not update screen when window isn't active | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | 1 qt4-x11 (4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo4+0m5) unstable; urgency=low | 22:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrm, ok, not the best search | 22:36 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 22:36 | |
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| Nitial | mmkay | 22:37 |
| AakashPatel | does anyone know where i can download older versions of the qt sdk for desktop linux? | 22:37 |
| AakashPatel | i only see 4.6 shiz but the device is 4.5 | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | AakashPatel: um | 22:38 |
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| homeasvs_ | jebba, E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture. | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/qt-all/source/ has 4.5.3 | 22:38 |
| woglinde | AakashPatel haeh??? | 22:38 |
| woglinde | AakashPatel what you want? | 22:38 |
| AakashPatel | 4.5 sdk for qt | 22:39 |
| woglinde | AakashPatel qt for your host computer | 22:39 |
| woglinde | qt for mameo? | 22:39 |
| AakashPatel | host | 22:39 |
| woglinde | qt for maemo fremantle or maemo diablo? | 22:39 |
| woglinde | apt-get install qt | 22:39 |
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| woglinde | and if you dont use qt4.6 feature | 22:40 |
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| julianoliver | anyone else have the experience (with latest firmware) that hiding the desktop configuration dropdown button takes ~4 clicks? bug? | 22:40 |
| woglinde | it will run on qt4.5 as well | 22:40 |
| woglinde | hi javis | 22:40 |
| julianoliver | sorry.. on Nokia N900 | 22:40 |
| javispedro | hi wog | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | evening javispedro | 22:40 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: have you seen what I did to your -testing apps? | 22:41 |
| javispedro | evening :) Stskeeps | 22:41 |
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| BBNS | meh ... what's wrong with ppl. return N900 cuz it can't customize ringtone for each indivisual contact? | 22:44 |
| yuizy | what? :D | 22:44 |
| BBNS | can iPhone do that? totally rubbish. | 22:44 |
| simula_n900 | hehe | 22:44 |
| jebba | julianoliver: it isn't four clicks, it's just a small time delay afaict | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | BBNS: important to no accidentially get to talk to yur mom | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | add a 't' and 'o' in there. | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:45 |
| BBNS | Stskeeps: you can put a super obvious avatar for your mom. | 22:45 |
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| julianoliver | jebba: perhaps you're right.. | 22:46 |
| jebba | custom ringtones would be nice of course. i'm sure it'll get done soon enough | 22:46 |
| frals | BBNS: just read that thread, awesome dealbreaker | 22:46 |
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| BBNS | jebba: i have sympathy to maemo team. so many requests jamming up. | 22:47 |
| AakashPatel | i want my n900 to cool bacon | 22:48 |
| AakashPatel | cook | 22:48 |
| AakashPatel | Where would I submit that? | 22:49 |
| AakashPatel | :P | 22:49 |
| frals | talk to lcuk, sure he wants it as well ;) | 22:49 |
| BBNS | you can do that if your bacon cooker support bluetooth. | 22:49 |
| AakashPatel | screw bluetooth, its connected to the interwebz | 22:49 |
| BBNS | or IR sensor. | 22:49 |
| AakashPatel | The phone has an IR sensor? | 22:49 |
| sejo | AakashPatel: yes | 22:49 |
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| BBNS | it does. | 22:49 |
| AakashPatel | :0 | 22:50 |
| AakashPatel | Nowai | 22:50 |
| AakashPatel | Where? | 22:50 |
| BBNS | there is apps in maemo called somewhat controller to let you control your TV from N900. | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | near the camera button | 22:50 |
| sejo | next to camera button | 22:50 |
| jani | bbns: irreco ? | 22:50 |
| AakashPatel | holy shiz | 22:50 |
| mece | irreco | 22:50 |
| mece | is that out? | 22:50 |
| AakashPatel | irreco? | 22:50 |
| * AakashPatel looks it up | 22:50 | |
| BBNS | extra-devel probably. | 22:50 |
| sejo | devel only | 22:51 |
| mece | hmmhm | 22:51 |
| timeless_mbp | not in testing ;(~ | 22:51 |
| homeasvs_ | any extras maintainers here, or should I wait until tomorrow to get approved ? | 22:51 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 22:51 |
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| jebba | homeasvs_: think you gotta wait, i'm waiting too... | 22:53 |
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| mece | here's some info about irreco incase someone wonders. http://irreco.garage.maemo.org/ | 22:54 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, pong | 22:54 |
| jaem_ | *yawn* morning | 22:55 |
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| AakashPatel | jaem_, fixed waht i needed ;) forgot to download the gui lib for qt on the device | 22:55 |
| jaem_ | lol | 22:56 |
| jaem_ | but you got it working, though? | 22:56 |
| AakashPatel | yeah, it said HELLOWORLD | 22:56 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 22:56 |
| jaem_ | heh \o/ | 22:56 |
| woglinde | lol | 22:56 |
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| woglinde | AakashPatel then time to learn qtdesigner | 22:57 |
| AakashPatel | Lol yeah im donwload the sdk right now | 22:57 |
| AakashPatel | downloading* | 22:57 |
| BBNS | woglinde: you can write QML too. | 22:57 |
| mece | woglinde, by Qt designer, do you mean Qt Creator? | 22:57 |
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| jaem_ | mece, no, they're separate | 22:58 |
| mece | ok? | 22:58 |
| woglinde | nope I mean qtdesigner | 22:58 |
| woglinde | for gui design | 22:58 |
| jaem_ | mece, I /think/ Qt Creator loads Qt Designer inside it in some fashion | 22:58 |
| mece | is designer the thing that you use to design gui, that can be started within Qt Creator. | 22:58 |
| mece | right | 22:58 |
| woglinde | jupp | 22:58 |
| AakashPatel | I dont get how the GUI designer will translate to the maemo GUI | 22:58 |
| mece | yeah that think is sweet. | 22:58 |
| AakashPatel | This'll be fun | 22:58 |
| BBNS | jaem_: correct. | 22:58 |
| mece | thing even | 22:58 |
| woglinde | AakashPatel .xml | 22:59 |
| BBNS | AakashPatel: shall be automatically hildonized for you, not sure. | 22:59 |
| woglinde | bbns right | 22:59 |
| woglinde | for most stuff | 22:59 |
| AakashPatel | Hm I see | 22:59 |
| BBNS | and here is QML: http://wiki.maemo.org/QML | 22:59 |
| AakashPatel | What about that menu thing | 22:59 |
| AakashPatel | oh | 22:59 |
| * AakashPatel looks | 22:59 | |
| BBNS | already works on N900. | 22:59 |
| BBNS | AakashPatel: shall be hildonized too. | 22:59 |
| woglinde | hm qml is 4.6 | 23:00 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, do you mean the problem where it makes your menu button say "Menu/item"? | 23:00 |
| jaem_ | because I'm still wondering what's up with that :S | 23:00 |
| AakashPatel | I mean that title bar | 23:00 |
| AakashPatel | in maemo | 23:00 |
| BBNS | woglinde: yep. on your own risk. =P but it's working smooth here. | 23:00 |
| jaem_ | oh, it does that automatically | 23:00 |
| AakashPatel | zomg | 23:00 |
| jaem_ | but as I said, I haven't gotten it to stop prefixing all the buttons with the "menu/" | 23:01 |
| jaem_ | which is annoying | 23:01 |
| jaem_ | let me know if it still does that in this build, please :) | 23:01 |
| AakashPatel | :/ | 23:01 |
| AakashPatel | I'll have to figure that out lol | 23:01 |
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| tigert | hmm | 23:04 |
| phreck | sup all | 23:04 |
| jaem_ | yo, phreck | 23:04 |
| AakashPatel | Is there an IDE package for qt in ubutnu? | 23:04 |
| odin_ | the yellow status bar messages are they a DBUS service ? | 23:04 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, yes | 23:04 |
| AakashPatel | in the repo's? | 23:04 |
| jaem_ | and it's probably called exactly what you think :P | 23:04 |
| AakashPatel | I cant find it | 23:04 |
| jaem_ | give me a sec | 23:05 |
| AakashPatel | qt4-ide? | 23:05 |
| * jaem_ moves to his Ubuntu box | 23:05 | |
| ManuelSE | to the inceinerator | 23:05 |
| phreck | how many of you use an irc client on the n900? | 23:05 |
| AakashPatel | I do | 23:05 |
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| AakashPatel | XChat ftw | 23:06 |
| phreck | xchat? | 23:06 |
| flux | phreck, I use ssh and telepathy-idle, but I'd like something more integrated | 23:06 |
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| phreck | yea. | 23:06 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, libqt4-designer | 23:06 |
| AakashPatel | oh | 23:06 |
| flux | I used xchat on n810. decent, but it doesn't integrate either.. or does it on n900? | 23:06 |
| phreck | the xchat port is pretty traw/unstable | 23:06 |
| AakashPatel | that has in IDE in it? | 23:06 |
| AakashPatel | in/an | 23:06 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, no, that has the designer | 23:06 |
| AakashPatel | Yeah | 23:06 |
| AakashPatel | I'm in that right now | 23:06 |
| flux | (ie. I want a notification like I get for sms-messages if I get msg'd) | 23:06 |
| jaem_ | qtcreator is what you want, then | 23:06 |
| bjv | so.. i just ran out of diskspace installing apps on my 810 | 23:07 |
| fnordianslippers | xchat is fine but don't change settings in gui, edit the conf | 23:07 |
| phreck | think theyhave a plugin dont they flux? | 23:07 |
| phreck | in dev? | 23:07 |
| phreck | fnord, no kidding | 23:07 |
| fnordianslippers | nope. | 23:07 |
| bjv | apparently root sits on 500m | 23:07 |
| bjv | and there is 1.5g vfat | 23:08 |
| v2n900 | where can i find infos on writing conversation plugins? | 23:08 |
| bjv | :\ | 23:08 |
| flux | phreck, what kind of plugin? | 23:08 |
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| phreck | for irc integration? | 23:08 |
| v2n900 | IM plugin | 23:08 |
| phreck | maybe im wrong | 23:08 |
| flux | phreck, you mean telepathy-idle or something else? | 23:08 |
| BBNS | AakashPatel: the latest qt-ide can be also downloaded here: http://qt.nokia.com/downloads | 23:08 |
| jaem_ | phreck, yes, telepathy-idle | 23:08 |
| v2n900 | no for another chat protocoll | 23:08 |
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| jaem_ | but it's not really set up for normal IRC usage, IMO | 23:08 |
| phreck | yeh. | 23:08 |
| jaem_ | it's a bit odd | 23:08 |
| BBNS | AakashPatel: Qt-Creator 1.3 you will love it. | 23:08 |
| flux | telepathy-idle sort of works, but it doesn't work with irssi-proxy | 23:09 |
| flux | so I need to run another connection altogether | 23:09 |
| jaem_ | BBNS, backwards statements you make them ;) | 23:09 |
| bjv | on the 810 is there a recommended repartitioning/symlinking strategy? | 23:09 |
| phreck | ah, i ahavent tested it, remember seeing it though | 23:09 |
| AakashPatel | sweet | 23:09 |
| flux | infact it does /part to all my channels if I try it.. I suppose it'd be possible to make it work, though. | 23:09 |
| jaem_ | bjv, clone to a card | 23:09 |
| bjv | jaem_ yeah, i dont have any mini SD | 23:09 |
| ManuelSE | bjv see boot menu and partitioning | 23:09 |
| bjv | k | 23:09 |
| ManuelSE | ojh | 23:10 |
| bjv | yeah | 23:10 |
| ManuelSE | need a card | 23:10 |
| jaem_ | bjv, microSD cards are pretty cheap | 23:10 |
| jaem_ | at least, over here | 23:10 |
| jaem_ | and they come with an adapter | 23:10 |
| Xisdibik | jaem_: where is over here? :p | 23:10 |
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| jaem_ | BC, Canada | 23:10 |
| bjv | i figured i'd just repartition the internal, into a token vfat | 23:10 |
| bjv | and large jffs2 | 23:10 |
| jaem_ | bjv, eehhh no | 23:10 |
| jaem_ | better to clone to your internal card, and leave some vfat free | 23:10 |
| jaem_ | Xisdibik, my IP should give that away :P | 23:11 |
| * Arkenoi filled a bug about lack of sim menu support | 23:11 | |
| tigert | heh | 23:11 |
| bjv | i figured i'd do the internal as like 1meg Vfat | 23:11 |
| bjv | 1499m jffs | 23:11 |
| tigert | first time ever I am using my phone as a SOCKS proxy =D | 23:11 |
| * Arkenoi wonders if i am really the first person who actually needs it? | 23:11 | |
| bjv | you suggest cloning / into that 1499m jffs2, though? | 23:11 |
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| tigert | Arkenoi: sim menu? | 23:12 |
| jaem_ | tigert, woo | 23:12 |
| tigert | jaem_: I just need to poke the screen to keep it awake :) | 23:12 |
| tigert | power management kicks in pretty effectively | 23:12 |
| Arkenoi | yep, also known as sim toolkit | 23:12 |
| tigert | which is a good thing | 23:12 |
| jaem_ | ah | 23:12 |
| tigert | should plug it in power i guess | 23:13 |
| Arkenoi | applications running on sim card | 23:13 |
| jaem_ | tigert, if it's tied in with the screen dimming directly, then you can override it | 23:13 |
| tigert | but makes teh tubes of the internet work | 23:13 |
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| jaem_ | ooooh that tubes :O | 23:13 |
| jaem_ | the* | 23:13 |
| tigert | jaem_: it probably is | 23:13 |
| * tigert loves ssh -D | 23:13 | |
| *** BBNS has joined #maemo | 23:13 | |
| jaem_ | tigert, one of the third-party applets can override it | 23:13 |
| tigert | ok | 23:13 |
| jaem_ | tigert, yep - use it all the time | 23:13 |
| odin_ | the 3 Maemo5 SDK versions... what is the difference ? are they equivalent or all needed? | 23:14 |
| jaem_ | probably something obvious, but I just woke up | 23:14 |
| Arkenoi | operator-provided sim cards use that to control service subscriptions and stuff like that | 23:14 |
| Xisdibik | $23 for a Class 6 8GB micro SDHC | 23:14 |
| tigert | oh sukc | 23:14 |
| * tigert eats the last slide of Jamon Bellota | 23:14 | |
| jaem_ | oh wow | 23:14 |
| jaem_ | where? | 23:14 |
| tigert | slice even | 23:14 |
| Xisdibik | Newegg | 23:14 |
| Arkenoi | my sim card uses that to manually enter and select imsi/ki (so 90's, like ESN/MIN good old DAMPS days ;-) | 23:14 |
| jaem_ | I didn't know they were that cheap | 23:14 |
| jaem_ | nice! | 23:14 |
| Xisdibik | its a Trascend one if that matters | 23:15 |
| Xisdibik | Transcend* | 23:15 |
| Arkenoi | does n900 really capable of utilizing full class 6 performance? most mobile devices hardly go for class 4 speeds | 23:15 |
| *** Speedevil is now known as n900evil | 23:16 | |
| *** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil | 23:16 | |
| tigert | Arkenoi: what speeds? data? | 23:16 |
| Arkenoi | tigert: yep, the bottleneck rarely is the microsd itself | 23:16 |
| Xisdibik | Arkenoi: but it does make xfering from sd > PC that much faster | 23:17 |
| *** Klowner_ is now known as Klowner | 23:17 | |
| * SpeedEvil tests! | 23:17 | |
| SpeedEvil | time dd if=/dev/mmcblk1p1 of=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=102400 | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | real0m 9.34s | 23:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | not too shabby | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | hair over 10 megabytes/sec | 23:20 |
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| *** GiantTalkingCow has joined #maemo | 23:20 | |
| SpeedEvil | the internal mmc is faster still - ~13M/s | 23:20 |
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| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 23:21 | |
| tigert | shorter wires ;D | 23:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~3M/s write for the external, and more like 4 for the internal | 23:23 |
| *** eichi has quit IRC | 23:24 | |
| Xisdibik | was the 10MB/s for reading or something? | 23:24 |
| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 23:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | ~5 for / - writing | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Xisdibik: yes | 23:24 |
| Xisdibik | so Arkenoi is right, Class 4 gives max performance IN the n900 | 23:25 |
| SpeedEvil | what speed is class 4/ | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | This is however an old card | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | 1G, purchased a couple of years ago | 23:26 |
| AakashPatel | QGtkStyle cannot be sused together with the GTK_Qt engine | 23:26 |
| Xisdibik | i thought 4 was 4MB/s | 23:26 |
| AakashPatel | wtf | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Xisdibik: no - these speeds were all inside the n900 | 23:27 |
| jebba | hmm, HOWTO set "airplane" mode ? (or perhaps even "airplane takeoff" mode) | 23:27 |
| Xisdibik | Class 2: 2 MByte/s - 13x | 23:27 |
| Xisdibik | Class 4: 4 MByte/s - 26x | 23:27 |
| Xisdibik | Class 6: 6 MByte/s - 40x | 23:27 |
| AakashPatel | jaem_, what hte hell does that mean | 23:27 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 23:27 |
| Xisdibik | SpeedEvil: you said 3MB/s was external | 23:27 |
| *** GiantTalkingCow has quit IRC | 23:27 | |
| SpeedEvil | Xisdibik: read/write tests of the internal root FS, the internal mmc, and the additional card I stuck in | 23:28 |
| SpeedEvil | class is write speeds? | 23:28 |
| jebba | ah, i just realized, all application descriptions in the installer are in english.... | 23:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I suspect if the flash would keep up, the n900 could do the same writing as reading - so 10 meg/second would be quite possible. | 23:28 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, oh | 23:29 |
| jaem_ | well | 23:29 |
| jaem_ | QGTKSTyle themese Qt widgets with a GTK engine | 23:29 |
| AakashPatel | That was the menus | 23:29 |
| AakashPatel | example | 23:29 |
| jaem_ | and the other one does the opposite | 23:29 |
| AakashPatel | okay | 23:29 |
| simula_n900 | darns, i was hoping it was faster | 23:29 |
| jaem_ | clearly, running both of them at once doesn't really make sense | 23:29 |
| jaem_ | so just disable or uninstall one | 23:29 |
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| jaem_ | they're meant to provide unified theming | 23:29 |
| Xisdibik | SpeedEvil: The SD Speed Class Ratings specify the following minimum write speeds based on "the best fragmented state where no memory unit is occupied" | 23:30 |
| AakashPatel | But what if this is an acutal app and the user experiences this? | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Xisdibik: yeah - that was pretty much it. | 23:30 |
| AakashPatel | actual released app* | 23:30 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, then it's the user's own fault - it's not a problem with your app itself | 23:30 |
| AakashPatel | :/ | 23:31 |
| jaem_ | it would only happen if they'd installed and enabled both themers | 23:31 |
| jaem_ | Google them, and read up a bit - that should clear it up | 23:31 |
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| AakashPatel | I installed the QtGui lib | 23:31 |
| AakashPatel | thats it | 23:31 |
| jaem_ | hmm | 23:31 |
| jaem_ | odd | 23:31 |
| jaem_ | not sure then, but it isn't your code | 23:31 |
| AakashPatel | yeah, the code runs fine on the desktop | 23:32 |
| jaem_ | is this the stock SDK VM | 23:32 |
| jaem_ | you didn't install anything else? | 23:32 |
| AakashPatel | no the actual device | 23:32 |
| jaem_ | wait, what? | 23:32 |
| AakashPatel | n900 | 23:32 |
| jaem_ | you're getting those errors on-devce?! | 23:32 |
| AakashPatel | yessuh | 23:32 |
| jaem_ | then I'm really confused | 23:32 |
| jaem_ | hrm | 23:33 |
| loft306 | timeless_mbp why do somethings other that phone work in portrait mode? or is it just nnewer/fixed added to it so it can do it? | 23:33 |
| jaem_ | there's no easy way to disable that on Maemo (e.g. in the GUI), so if both are available in the repos, that's a bit of an issue | 23:33 |
| AakashPatel | yeah | 23:34 |
| jaem_ | AakashPatel, I'll get back to you after breakfast | 23:34 |
| AakashPatel | Okay man | 23:34 |
| AakashPatel | If I wanted to play an mp3 in Qt | 23:35 |
| AakashPatel | What lib would i need? | 23:35 |
| AakashPatel | QtMultimedia or Phonon | 23:35 |
| hashier | jaem_: breakfast? where are ? | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | loft306: eh? | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | image viewer was always designed to work in portrait | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | phone was a last minute must have for sales | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | browser was an "oh we must have it, oops too late, we'll get it in the first service release" | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | the rest of the main apps are "we'll try to get it w/in the next couple of releases" | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | this is not a promise of course | 23:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | i don't manage projects | 23:38 |
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| bjv | man. | 23:38 |
| bjv | so how many people just bought 8gb sdhc cards off newegg? | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't really know the status of other things | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | bjv: price drop? :) | 23:39 |
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| ashenburger | tbh, having portait on a landscape oriented phone is sort of odd though? | 23:39 |
| bjv | well, i just got a 810 last week to replace my old 770 i sat on | 23:39 |
| bjv | didnt have a mini card yet, and just hit the <300mb / size | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | ashenburger: yep | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly the hope was that it wouldn't be needed | 23:40 |
| tigert | ashenburger: portrait is awesome for one-hand usecases | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | management discovered that they couldn't not have it for the phone | 23:40 |
| fnordianslippers | is there a way to stop xchat autoscrolling by editing the conf? | 23:40 |
| bjv | [16:14] <Xisdibik> $23 for a Class 6 8GB micro SDHC | 23:40 |
| *** |R_ is now known as |R | 23:41 | |
| bjv | off newegg, should have it by tuesday night. | 23:41 |
| Xisdibik | wednesday | 23:41 |
| loft306 | thnx timeless_mbp | 23:41 |
| bjv | for now i think imma repartition my interal into 130m vfat | 23:41 |
| Xisdibik | its 3 day shipping generally bjv, monday, tuesday, wednesday | 23:41 |
| bjv | rest jff2 | 23:41 |
| loft306 | i was just wondering couse the mbarcode did it and a few others .. | 23:41 |
| bjv | and copy my root over, | 23:42 |
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| bjv | and when the card gets here, migrate again to the full 8g | 23:42 |
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| Code177 | maemo | 23:46 |
| Code177 | oops | 23:46 |
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| * code177 flails | 23:46 | |
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| code177 | I am doing something wrong with pypackager. | 23:46 |
| code177 | I managed to find a copy in the chinook repo but it doesn't want to work in the new sdk env | 23:46 |
| code177 | either in the host or scratchbox | 23:47 |
| code177 | sooo.. I'm guessing I'm missing something obvious | 23:47 |
| code177 | does anyone want to tell me what it is? :) | 23:47 |
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| detective | hi, someone here who's maintaining a maemo community project? | 23:48 |
| andre__ | detective, no, but what is the followup question? | 23:48 |
| phreck | haha | 23:49 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders what a maemo community project is | 23:50 | |
| RST38h | andre: "KILL KILL KILL!!!" ? | 23:50 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: that'd be the ninjas. | 23:50 |
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| ashenburger | everything gets better with ninjas | 23:51 |
| hrw | hi | 23:51 |
| phreck | indeed | 23:51 |
| detective | andre__: just wanted to know how long they need to add an catagorie at maemo.bugzilla | 23:51 |
| Zeddeh | are there ANY other cool games for the n900 other then bounce | 23:51 |
| detective | waiting for 3 days, no response, nothing... | 23:52 |
| Zeddeh | i mean 3d games | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | Zeddeh: quake 3? | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:52 |
| andre__ | detective, yeah, I'm lazy :-D | 23:52 |
| phreck | no. | 23:52 |
| hrw | does n900 exists at all? | 23:52 |
| andre__ | it's on my todo list for tomorrow | 23:52 |
| Zeddeh | what | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | Zeddeh: not kidding. q3 exists. sec | 23:52 |
| * Arkenoi wonders if there is such thing as really small miniUSB->microUSB converter | 23:52 | |
| Zeddeh | yeah i know | 23:52 |
| andre__ | detective, and it's weekend actually :) | 23:52 |
| Zeddeh | i've seen the videos | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | detective: roughly andre__ or myself can do it at any time | 23:53 |
| detective | andre__: allright, okay then i'm satisfied now :D | 23:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | but it's 11:53pm | 23:53 |
| Zeddeh | its just wierd that such a powerful device only comes with one game that actually uses the hardware to its advantage | 23:53 |
| Arkenoi | to have one in the pocket, as miniUSB cable is quite expected to be in any random place | 23:53 |
| andre__ | i've been working this weekend actually... :-/ | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | detective: but to be fair, sometimes people prefer to do work during the week | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | Zeddeh: you'd rather that it come w/ all the cool games | 23:54 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: http://zk-tek.tw/shownew_products.php?newproducts_ID=33 | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | so that there's nothing for third parties to write? | 23:54 |
| detective | just enjoy your weekend ;) | 23:54 |
| Zeddeh | i'd rather that there were any cool games available | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Zeddeh: do you know how many games ms windows had historically? | 23:54 |
| code177 | Oooooooooooooooooooh'= | 23:54 |
| Zeddeh | yes well my point wasn't that they'd have to be preinstalled | 23:54 |
| code177 | i managed to get pypackger on my n900 but it doesnt work | 23:54 |
| Zeddeh | just that there were any games | 23:54 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, exactly! do you know how to order one-two (not 50-100) ;-)? | 23:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Zeddeh: I have found 'enigma' to be _extremely_ annoying. | 23:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Zeddeh: though it's not 3d. | 23:55 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Travel to Taipei and buy there? | 23:55 |
| Arkenoi | (oops, not this thing, its reverse counterpart) | 23:55 |
| Arkenoi | it converts micro to mini and we need vice versa | 23:56 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Raid Savelka looking for one? | 23:56 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.techairlines.com/a-brief-history-of-microsoft-windows/ | 23:56 |
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| Arkenoi | rst: will try to, but i doubt such a thing is to be found there. i remember i was searching for wifi pigtails and they asked $50 for $7 thingie | 23:57 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, windows 1.0 had one game: reversi | 23:57 |
| timeless_mbp | windows 3.0 added solitaire | 23:57 |
| Arkenoi | (actually, not for $7 ones but for $2 ones) | 23:57 |
| timeless_mbp | windows 3.1 traded reversi for minesweeper | 23:57 |
| pwnguin | Zeddeh: does crack attack or frozen bubble build? | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | windows 3.1 for workgroups added hearts | 23:58 |
| javispedro | RST38h: so, did you see what I did your -testing applications? :) | 23:58 |
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| Shapeshifter | enigma would be quite suited to play using the accelerometer | 23:58 |
| RST38h | javis: No, what happened? =) | 23:58 |
| Shapeshifter | I wonder how hard it is to implement it | 23:58 |
| Zeddeh | i havent had the guts to try building anything yet :p | 23:58 |
| * andre__ still has a windows 1.0 around somewhere | 23:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | freecell was introduced with win32s | 23:58 |
| javispedro | RST38h: well, check your mailbox: i voted for them. | 23:58 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: I doubt they will do this for a port adapter | 23:58 |
| javispedro | do you know what does that mean =) :) | 23:58 |
| RST38h | javis: Ah! | 23:58 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I think the N900 is a fake | 23:58 |
| crashanddie_mbp | and all those people on youtube are just actors, paid by Nokia | 23:59 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: I have found some mini to micro which are just a bit larger than the one before | 23:59 |
| timeless_mbp | windows 95 added pinball | 23:59 |
| pwnguin | Zeddeh: maybe build nasa's earth program ;) | 23:59 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc | 23:59 |
| RST38h | javis: BTW, I have got VE run. Full screen. It is beautiful. | 23:59 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: on savelka? | 23:59 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Yea | 23:59 |
| crashanddie_mbp | timeless: only the second edition or something | 23:59 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Oh, no, with Google | 23:59 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, no, pinball was probably SE or Plus! | 23:59 |
| ManuelSE | reduce length of mini usb connector lead on supplied cable | 23:59 |
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