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| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, ok. thought I might get away without | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| crashanddie | hcarrega: sync to gmail, gmail to n900 | 00:00 |
| hcarrega | ok sir | 00:00 |
| hcarrega | thanks | 00:00 |
| crashanddie | hcarrega: haven't tried it yet | 00:00 |
| hcarrega | gonna try | 00:00 |
| Arkenoi | crashanddie, and pray for it not to fail ;-) | 00:00 |
| hcarrega | lol | 00:00 |
| crashanddie | hcarrega: just got my mac yesterday, but that would be my expected way to do it | 00:00 |
| BernardV | ok.. going to flash... pray for me :P | 00:01 |
| hcarrega | i got my n900 today mac i have for some years | 00:01 |
| hcarrega | :) | 00:01 |
| crashanddie | Arkenoi: in order to have my corporate agenda to sync with linkedin, I have exchange sync with the blackberry, which syncs with the calendar with gmail, gmail with linkedin, linkedin with tripit | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | Stskeeps: aah better. thnx | 00:02 |
| _JP_ | crashanddie: or export as CSV and import to N900 works too | 00:02 |
| mece | I have a question. samba. Does it do the samba painlessly? Talking N900 here. | 00:02 |
| crashanddie | _JP_: that's export/import, not sync | 00:02 |
| Stskeeps | mece: it was removed in maemo5 | 00:03 |
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| _JP_ | crashanddie: good point, didnt read you needed sync ;) | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | mece: still works with 3rd party probably | 00:03 |
| Arkenoi | crashanddie, :-)) the part which is likely to fail is n900<->google :-( | 00:03 |
| crashanddie | Arkenoi: works fine here | 00:03 |
| Arkenoi | as there is no direct way, just activesync | 00:03 |
| Arkenoi | and you will probably lose some contact fields | 00:04 |
| crashanddie | have had contact sync working since I got the device a few months ago now | 00:04 |
| mece | Stskeeps, why would it be removed? The sense that makes... is not! | 00:04 |
| Arkenoi | some people report they had sip id's lost from addressbook | 00:05 |
| Dantonic | is xhat available in extras testing? | 00:05 |
| crashanddie | Dantonic: no | 00:05 |
| crashanddie | still in devel | 00:05 |
| Dantonic | oh its in devel | 00:05 |
| Dantonic | ok | 00:05 |
| Dantonic | anyone using it? | 00:05 |
| Dantonic | how is it? | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | odin_: definitley I don't see same line in dmesg of N900 when echo host>foo as I do on N810 | 00:05 |
| Dantonic | any issues? | 00:05 |
| crashanddie | Dantonic: it crashes when you try to save settings | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | mece: stl flly accessible with kernel and smblclient and all that stuff.. | 00:05 |
| arachnist | Dantonic: crashes when you exit preferences | 00:05 |
| Dantonic | aw | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | crashanddie: ^ | 00:05 |
| arachnist | Dantonic: crashes when opening links | 00:05 |
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| konttori | Dantonic: xchat is pretty good | 00:05 |
| Dantonic | who's working on it? | 00:06 |
| konttori | somebody should get it in shape and put to testing | 00:06 |
| crashanddie | Dantonic: qwerty12 | 00:06 |
| Dantonic | ok | 00:06 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer-8: yeah, we need to talk to the guy who wrote the app | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | fix friggin segfault on xchat | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | crashanddie: won't help | 00:06 |
| Dantonic | so is there a way to tell if apps are "optified" or not? | 00:06 |
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| Dantonic | I assume a lot of them are just getting ported? | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | the sysfs node is there but dead | 00:07 |
| konttori | If they are in extras, they are optified ;) | 00:07 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer-8: no, I want to understand why he uploaded it if there's no use for it | 00:07 |
| konttori | and optification is really really really important | 00:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | crashanddie: heh, valid thought | 00:07 |
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| konttori | SSU needs a lot of free space when the update is big | 00:07 |
| lardman | re | 00:07 |
| konttori | we have been fighting like mad for the past 2 weeks to make the space requirement somehow drop to sane level for the 'big' ssu update | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | ciao | 00:08 |
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| * w00t still thinks that smaller updates (more frequently) would make just s much sense | 00:09 | |
| RST38h | konttori: any approximate date on the ssu release and what ww will it correspond to? | 00:09 |
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| konttori | can't say a day - even I'm not sure | 00:09 |
| konttori | ww? | 00:09 |
| Dantonic | konttori, is optification a difficult task? | 00:10 |
| RST38h | work week | 00:10 |
| konttori | no it's not. | 00:10 |
| RST38h | as in ww42 | 00:10 |
| konttori | more than that ;) | 00:10 |
| Ceron^ | is liqbase available for n900, what repo is it in? | 00:10 |
| konttori | liqbase is in extras-devel | 00:10 |
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| odin_ | DocScrutinizer, ok ah well.... (on host mode usb) | 00:10 |
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| Ceron^ | can i break my n900 if i allow extras-devel :( | 00:11 |
| konttori | RST38h: so, read my quote more carefully. past two weeks like mad. tell you anything? | 00:11 |
| konttori | (that the madness is over is one thing) | 00:11 |
| * w00t thinks it suggests soon | 00:11 | |
| RST38h | all riiiight =) | 00:11 |
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| frals | :) | 00:12 |
| konttori | well, you guys have to understand that when something is over, there is still series of testing just to make sure, and certifications to make and so on. | 00:12 |
| konttori | so, takes time | 00:12 |
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| * konttori goes to sleep | 00:13 | |
| * mece understands the toil of making stuff work... | 00:13 | |
| w00t | I certainly understand that, but I have no doubts that the process could be streamlined (or at least moved away from mssive updates to smaller updates) | 00:13 |
| mece | so how about that samba? | 00:13 |
| w00t | night konttori | 00:13 |
| * frals heads back to the wonderful world of JavaSE | 00:13 | |
| mece | anyone has an idea how to get it working? | 00:13 |
| thomastp | anyone know if I can find .dsc files somewhere for mozilla's xulrunner maemo packages ? | 00:13 |
| thomastp | I'd like to get libmozjs so I can package couchdb | 00:13 |
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| BernardV | UPDATE: After flashing the same unsupported chip id | 00:14 |
| BernardV | this sucks | 00:14 |
| Stskeeps | BernardV: report bug, note down the imei somewhere | 00:15 |
| BernardV | Did a bug report | 00:15 |
| BernardV | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6587 | 00:15 |
| povbot` | Bug 6587: wl1251 won't start, unsupported chip id. | 00:15 |
| Ceron^ | how to enable extras-devel | 00:16 |
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| mece | Ceron^, are you sure you want to go there? | 00:17 |
| Ceron^ | well i want to play with liqbase its stable right :l | 00:17 |
| Ceron^ | and irssi installed | 00:17 |
| mece | Ceron^, you could just dl the package and "dpkg -i" it | 00:17 |
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| Ceron^ | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/i/irssi/irssi_0.8.14-2_armel.deb | 00:19 |
| Ceron^ | that one i assume? | 00:19 |
| mece | well just add catalogue in app manager. adress: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ Distribution: fremantle Components: free non-free | 00:19 |
| odin_ | lol /usr/bin/eggtimer fails to start | 00:19 |
| BernardV | Just run irssi on a dedicated box and connect with ssh ;) | 00:20 |
| mece | Ceron^, or that :D | 00:20 |
| Ceron^ | i already do that :D | 00:20 |
| Ceron^ | but i need irssi incase homebox fails | 00:20 |
| Ceron^ | and i need to come here! | 00:20 |
| BernardV | :) | 00:20 |
| Ceron^ | also liqbase is what im intrested in :p | 00:20 |
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| Ceron^ | lcuk has been advertising his program for decades | 00:21 |
| Ceron^ | time to see if its really any fun | 00:21 |
| Ceron^ | how to make a shortcut on n900 desktop | 00:22 |
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| Ceron^ | that has ssh -l username server.ip.com | 00:22 |
| Ceron^ | im tierd to writing it all the time :D | 00:23 |
| Ceron^ | i want my irssi open with one click! | 00:23 |
| BernardV | make an alias in terminal | 00:23 |
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| Ceron^ | :o | 00:23 |
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| fnordianslip | or edit .ssh/config | 00:24 |
| BernardV | alias ceron='ssh -l ceron server.domain.ext' | 00:24 |
| Ceron^ | still i need to open terminal and from there start the "irssi alias" | 00:24 |
| BernardV | indeed | 00:25 |
| Ceron^ | ok, so not possible to put custom links on desktop :P | 00:25 |
| BernardV | Don't know | 00:26 |
| BernardV | Got my phone today | 00:26 |
| arachnist | hm | 00:27 |
| arachnist | vim .ssh/config | 00:27 |
| mece | maybe you could make a shortcut to an application, and then manually edit that shortcut to point at your desired command line | 00:27 |
| arachnist | Host ceron | 00:27 |
| arachnist | Hostname foo.bar.com | 00:27 |
| arachnist | User foo | 00:27 |
| kalikiana | Ceron^, you cannot "easily" do it. but you can put .desktop files into /usr/share/applications/hildon if you know how to | 00:28 |
| kalikiana | the format is fairly simple | 00:28 |
| Ceron^ | isee | 00:28 |
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| mece | wtf is wrong with the interwebs today. Everything is slooow. Is it just me? | 00:31 |
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| arachnist | mece: it's just you | 00:31 |
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| mece | I knew it :( | 00:31 |
| * lardman thinks lcuk's liq-irc with graphics sounds quite cool | 00:32 | |
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| lardman | crashanddie: re Mac book, is it pretty ;) | 00:32 |
| lardman | derf: I'm afraid I don't currently know much about the dsp bridge interface, but am interested to learn and help if I can | 00:33 |
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| Xisdibik | arachnist: nah, its me too, im only getting 100-120kb/s here at work, i should be getting 400 kb/s | 00:34 |
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| * w00t just found out his ISP was throttling the hell out of his connection (again) due to spotify, so he moved that to SSH tunnel and now everything is absolutely flying | 00:37 | |
| odinm | odin on N900 (with xchat) | 00:37 |
| BernardV | nice odinm | 00:39 |
| * Xisdibik keeps reading odinm as opium :/ | 00:39 | |
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| lardman | lol, just built gnuplot only to find it's already in the repo | 00:40 |
| * odinm takes another puff on his pipe | 00:40 | |
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| lardman | doh! | 00:40 |
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| lardman | how many people here have a2dp headsets? | 00:41 |
| odin_ | a2dp ? | 00:41 |
| lardman | am thinking of compiling a wiki page of caps | 00:41 |
| lardman | ~google a2dp | 00:41 |
| RST38h | lardman: one here | 00:41 |
| lardman | odin_: BT stereo music anyway | 00:41 |
| arachnist | http://static3.demotywatory.pl/uploads/1259963404_by_Slavers_500.jpg <| lol | 00:41 |
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| lardman | RST38h: It seems difficult to work out which support more than simply SBC, I was thinking of writing a little app to interogate the headsets and get people to paste the answer into the wiki | 00:42 |
| Ceron^ | why does n900 whine about non authorisized ip when trying t | 00:42 |
| Ceron^ | o | 00:42 |
| Ceron^ | to use devle package | 00:42 |
| lardman | am intereted in hacking some mp3 codec support into bluez a2dp | 00:42 |
| Ceron^ | packages | 00:42 |
| RST38h | lardman: most bt headphones support a2dp now | 00:43 |
| RST38h | lardman: how n900 handles those is a different subject though | 00:43 |
| lardman | RST38h: yeah, but it's the codec used to transfer the data | 00:43 |
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| RST38h | yep | 00:43 |
| odin_ | ah the URL handler doesn't work by defaukt... "!opera-remote" ? what should maemo5 use ? | 00:43 |
| lardman | e.g. SBC is standard and required, mp3, atrac, apt-x, etc are possible | 00:43 |
| Xisdibik | RST38h: for the noobies (me) whats A2DP :) | 00:44 |
| lardman | odin_: mime handler? | 00:44 |
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| odin_ | lardman, no to make another browser window spawn to a url... trying "browser http://foobar.com" | 00:44 |
| lardman | Xisdibik: a BT profile which allows stereo music listening | 00:44 |
| lardman | odin_: ah, ok | 00:44 |
| Xisdibik | lardman: ah thats the stereo listening geek talk ;) gotcha | 00:44 |
| ds3 | you want A2DP | 00:44 |
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| lardman | I have a2dp, I want something better than sbc | 00:45 |
| odin_ | lardman, not that.. I just want to went a message to dbus to open a browser window.. | 00:45 |
| Ceron^ | why cant i use extras-devel | 00:46 |
| lardman | odin_: ah ok | 00:46 |
| odin_ | browser.launch --help ....Segmentation fault (not that!) | 00:46 |
| lardman | odin_: take a look at web.c in maemo-barcode, there's some code in there to do that using dbus | 00:46 |
| ds3 | are there cheap headphones that support anything besides SBC? | 00:46 |
| odin_ | X-Osso-URI-Action-Open ?? | 00:46 |
| lardman | ds3: well that's why I wanted people to test what they have :) | 00:47 |
| lardman | Sony seem to do so, but the i.talk ones do too (at least some) and they are pretty cheap | 00:47 |
| ds3 | lardman: donate a N900 and I'll test it against my battery of assorted cheap A2DP devices ;) | 00:47 |
| lardman | lol | 00:47 |
| ds3 | got at least 3 different ones | 00:47 |
| lardman | I'll give it some thought.... | 00:47 |
| ds3 | all acquired for sub $25 | 00:48 |
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| lardman | well I know one that does mp3 for £20, but thought some info gathering would be interesting too | 00:48 |
| ds3 | in the case of the N series, MP3 would mean syncing up with the DSP, right? | 00:49 |
| odin_ | what does /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh do ? | 00:49 |
| * Arkenoi wonders if makers of bh902 headset are really humans | 00:49 | |
| Arkenoi | must be elves or something | 00:49 |
| lardman | ds3: no, would be a straight pass through | 00:49 |
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| BernardV | lardman: It's not a cheap one, but a good one: the sennheiser | 00:49 |
| BernardV | PXC 310 BT | 00:49 |
| ds3 | lardman: so you just care about playing pre-encoded MP3s? | 00:49 |
| lardman | Arkenoi: do you need pointy ears to use it? ;) | 00:50 |
| lardman | ds3: yes | 00:50 |
| Arkenoi | lardman: looks like that | 00:50 |
| ds3 | ah okay | 00:50 |
| Arkenoi | it does not fit regular human ear at all | 00:50 |
| lardman | ds3: if you need to change encoding then Bluez already does that and encodes to sbc | 00:50 |
| lardman | but if your music is in mp3 form, why waste the cpu cycles and produce poorer quality sound, etc | 00:51 |
| ds3 | someone of us prefer music in OGG/Vorbis format | 00:51 |
| lardman | well you're screwed I'm afraid | 00:51 |
| ds3 | :P | 00:51 |
| lardman | unless someone decides to implement a vorbis decoder on the headphones | 00:51 |
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| lardman | what's the bitrate? | 00:52 |
| ds3 | either 128 or 256 | 00:52 |
| ds3 | nothing specatular | 00:52 |
| lardman | though actually the processing overhead is probably the big limiting factor here actually | 00:52 |
| BernardV | If you have ogg support you can play flac if I'm correct | 00:52 |
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| lardman | well I'm just talking about hw which contains a decoder for given codecs | 00:53 |
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| lardman | and those are sbc + optionally mp3, atrac, apt-x | 00:53 |
| ds3 | I would nice to move those A2DP devices from the testing pile to the using pile | 00:53 |
| lardman | I have mp3 music, so is of interest to me | 00:53 |
| ds3 | tired of nearly choking myself on the headphone cords | 00:53 |
| lardman | ds3: does it not work on an n8x0? | 00:53 |
| ds3 | lardman: I decided against trying the A2DP hacks on the N800 | 00:54 |
| lardman | I had hoped to run the tremor -> sbc stuff all on the dsp, but tremor beat me | 00:54 |
| lardman | ds3: well it can sound a bit odd, but is not too bad | 00:54 |
| lardman | on n900 sounds pretty reasonable | 00:55 |
| ds3 | lardman: it is the lack of integration that turned me off | 00:55 |
| lardman | but mp3 would be better imo | 00:55 |
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| lardman | ds3: yeah | 00:55 |
| ds3 | ideally, I want to be able to run Maemo mapper and have OGG/Vorbis playing over A2DP | 00:55 |
| lardman | but for music is not a big thing - switch headphones on and music comes thro, off and it's out of the speakers, etc | 00:55 |
| lardman | music or instructions? | 00:56 |
| ds3 | both ;) | 00:56 |
| ds3 | auto muting during instructions | 00:56 |
| ds3 | hence the desire for better integration | 00:56 |
| lardman | well if you can route via alsa you're ok ;) | 00:56 |
| lardman | yeah | 00:56 |
| ds3 | the thing is the N800 chokes on music decoding AND maemo mapping (just tracking with GPS) | 00:57 |
| ds3 | crossing my fingers that the OMAP3 will keep up | 00:57 |
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| AakashPatel | yo | 00:57 |
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| lardman | ah, a bt issue perhaps | 00:58 |
| ds3 | no, I was just trying it with a wired headphone and it chokes | 00:58 |
| ds3 | maemo mapper lags behind and it resets | 00:58 |
| lardman | hmm | 00:58 |
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| lardman | strange | 00:59 |
| ds3 | if it matters I am using the maemo media player app | 00:59 |
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| ds3 | (with the vorbis codec hack/addition) | 00:59 |
| lardman | dunno | 00:59 |
| lardman | tremor didn't take that much cpu iirc | 00:59 |
| ds3 | but apparently maemo mapper did unless it was a memory thing | 01:00 |
| lardman | could be a memory bandwidth issue perhaps..? | 01:00 |
| ds3 | donno how I'd test that | 01:00 |
| ds3 | I suppose I could rig up a Beagle board | 01:01 |
| lardman | I ported sbc encoding to the dsp in the hope of lowering the cpu load to allow mplayer to play better movies, in fact it just locked the memory and managed 1fps | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 01:01 |
| ds3 | actually, now that Maemo5 is out, is there a Mer based on Maemo5 yet with all the A2DP integrations? | 01:01 |
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| lardman | ds3: talk to Stskeeps | 01:02 |
| ds3 | lardman: is stskeeps the project owner/leader? | 01:02 |
| lardman | yep | 01:02 |
| ds3 | 'k | 01:02 |
| lardman | he's a good chap | 01:03 |
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| ds3 | *nod* just thought it was a #maemo thingie, didn't know there was an actual leader | 01:03 |
| odin_ | any idea on microb DBus destination name ? | 01:03 |
| pwnguin | hmm. what's the difference between a flattened (device) tree and a list? | 01:03 |
| lardman | odin_: did you look at my code? | 01:03 |
| Stskeeps | ds3, we have whatever bluez jaunty has | 01:04 |
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| odin_ | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-barcode/ (no files listed) | 01:04 |
| ds3 | Stskeeps: so that means no integration? | 01:04 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: what about the switching? | 01:04 |
| ali1234 | a2dp is notoriously hard to get working on jaunty... | 01:04 |
| lardman | odin_: svn | 01:04 |
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| odin_ | ah yes link at bottom off page | 01:05 |
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| lardman | :) | 01:05 |
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| AakashPatel | Does the bluetooth stack on the N900 support SPP protocal? | 01:06 |
| AakashPatel | protocol | 01:06 |
| Ceron^ | tobad spotify doesnt support maemo yet :( | 01:06 |
| lardman | aas | 01:06 |
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| lardman | sorry, was trying to nick-complete | 01:07 |
| lardman | AakashPatel: serial port, should do | 01:07 |
| lardman | ~lart little netbook kbs | 01:07 |
| * infobot shoots little netbook kbs in his sleep | 01:07 | |
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| SpeedEvil | It must - it supports bluetooth GPSs | 01:08 |
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| AakashPatel | awesome thanks lardman | 01:08 |
| ali1234 | bluez "supports" everything under the sun. the difficulty is in getting a GUI to actually make use of it. | 01:09 |
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| ali1234 | but you can always hack up a little pybluez script to do what you want | 01:09 |
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| lardman | ~lart garage for being sooooo slooooooow | 01:10 |
| * infobot slaps garage upside the head with a wet fish for being sooooo slooooooow | 01:10 | |
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| lardman | odin_: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/maemo-barcode/web.c?revision=140&root=maemo-barcode&view=markup | 01:12 |
| dmj7261 | I suspect more server needs to be directed toward garage and the other development oriented parts of maemo.org | 01:12 |
| lardman | I use load_url, but there's another one iirc which overwrites the current url if a window is open | 01:12 |
| lardman | look at open_URL() | 01:12 |
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| AakashPatel | What's R&D mode for? | 01:13 |
| Oli`` | Anybody know how to get an n900 showing up in banshee as a device I can copy music to? I know I can copy the files over manually but a) that sucks and b) it still sucks | 01:13 |
| lardman | dmj7261: more server for the whole lot I think | 01:13 |
| lardman | on n900? | 01:13 |
| dmj7261 | it's just *far* more noticeable anywhere outside talk. | 01:13 |
| lardman | makes your kb flash if there are misbehaving processes ;) | 01:14 |
| lardman | dmj7261: talk is on another server | 01:14 |
| AakashPatel | haha really? | 01:14 |
| dmj7261 | that would explain it. | 01:14 |
| ali1234 | Oli``: it should "just work" with the banshee mass storage media player extension | 01:14 |
| dmj7261 | I suspect that maemo.org is going to get hammered as n900 becomes more popular | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | Oli``: but it doesn't - i suspect the extension needs to be told that the n900 is a media player or something | 01:15 |
| lardman | ali1234: sorry, I don't know about it | 01:15 |
| lardman | s/ali1234/Oli`` | 01:15 |
| AakashPatel | How can I tell if the device is in R&D mode or not? | 01:15 |
| lardman | does the kb flash when the screen goes off? | 01:15 |
| Oli`` | ali1234: f-spot (photo gallery software) is trying to take charge because nautilus thinks it has photos on it... It does, in fairness! | 01:15 |
| ali1234 | Oli``: that happens because it sees the DCIM folder (probably) | 01:16 |
| lardman | Oli``: that annoys the hell out of me :) | 01:16 |
| ali1234 | Oli``: but there's nothing silimar (that i know of) for media players | 01:16 |
| AakashPatel | lardman, nope | 01:16 |
| ali1234 | maybe if you put an mp3 on there banshee will twig :) | 01:16 |
| odin_ | lardman, found it thanks but still no joy | 01:16 |
| Oli`` | ali1234: I'll give it a shot | 01:16 |
| lardman | AakashPatel: you're ok then; also it would give some info about the kernel, etc., at boot time | 01:16 |
| ali1234 | if not, file a bug on banshee :) | 01:17 |
| AakashPatel | I see | 01:17 |
| odin_ | lardman, ha... load_url thats what I needed for: dbus-send --session --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser /com/nokia/osso_browser/request com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url "string:http:foobar.com" | 01:18 |
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| lardman | ah good :) | 01:18 |
| AakashPatel | where can I downlod the images taht factory n900's run? | 01:18 |
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| ali1234 | Oli``: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/banshee-list/2009-April/msg00060.html | 01:18 |
| RXrenesis8 | this thing is a lot smaller than I thought it would be. Everyone on the internet must have really small hands :P | 01:18 |
| lardman | lol | 01:19 |
| odin_ | lardman, there we go: browser_dbuscmd.sh load_url "http://foobar.com" | 01:19 |
| AakashPatel | Is it at all dangerous to go into R&D mode? (sry for all the r&d questions lol) | 01:19 |
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| lardman | AakashPatel: is this an n900? | 01:19 |
| AakashPatel | yessuh | 01:19 |
| mgedmin | R&D mode could drain the battery faster, I've heard | 01:20 |
| lardman | to answer, no. Why do you want r&d? | 01:20 |
| Oli`` | Has anybody seen my Mp3 player? I can't find it >_< | 01:20 |
| AakashPatel | Just cuz I wanna check it out | 01:20 |
| lardman | don't do it on n900, the flashing kb will drive you nad | 01:20 |
| lardman | mad | 01:20 |
| Oli`` | found it... call off the hounds | 01:20 |
| AakashPatel | haha | 01:21 |
| Lorthirk` | guys, take a look at this | 01:21 |
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| lardman | mgedmin: yeah, with the kb flashing I imagine it would | 01:21 |
| jebbajeb1 | I have the SDK up and running in Fedora 12 64bit x86_64. Notes here: ==Installing Maemo 5 SDK on Fedora 12 x86_64== | 01:21 |
| Lorthirk` | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360#c11 | 01:21 |
| povbot` | Bug 6360: Headset problems | 01:21 |
| AakashPatel | I'll do it for a few mins :P | 01:21 |
| jebbajeb1 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#SDK rather | 01:21 |
| Lorthirk` | did i understand correctly? | 01:21 |
| lardman | AakashPatel: hope you don't have epilepsy ;) | 01:21 |
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| AakashPatel | haha | 01:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Where might I find powertop - apt-get install powertop comes up blank | 01:23 |
| lardman | Lorthirk: what does that even mean? | 01:23 |
| greenfly | isn't powertop written by Intel? | 01:23 |
| Lorthirk | i am not hte one who posted the comment | 01:23 |
| lardman | :) | 01:23 |
| Lorthirk | (i am the next one) | 01:23 |
| Lorthirk | it seems that this guy connected a dvd player to the n900 via the a/v cable | 01:24 |
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| Lorthirk | wondering himself that it didn't playback | 01:24 |
| lardman | lol | 01:24 |
| lardman | rotfl in fact | 01:24 |
| ali1234 | er... no | 01:24 |
| Ceron^ | what video player do you guys use on the n900 | 01:25 |
| Ceron^ | to watch series and stuff | 01:25 |
| ali1234 | if you read it carefully, he's saying that when he plugs the a/v cable into his "dvd audi set" (which i take to mean surround system) - the sound keeps coming from the n900 and not the system | 01:25 |
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| AakashPatel | oh see what you guys mean | 01:26 |
| odin_ | is there such a SOCKS proxy service and library that allows for mobile connectivity roaming by keeping connections open even if the link between the clients and proxy breaks for a small amount of time? | 01:26 |
| AakashPatel | the edge of the keyboard stays on even when the screen's off | 01:26 |
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| odin_ | like WLAN <> GSM handovers? | 01:26 |
| lardman | ali1234: ah, I didn't read it well enough then | 01:26 |
| ali1234 | i could be wrong, but that's the only logical intepretation :) | 01:27 |
| lardman | :) | 01:27 |
| Pavlov | anyone know much about how apps start using the desktop files on maemo5? | 01:29 |
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| Pavlov | we're having this problem where when we run from the desktop while already running we don't pop our window to the front | 01:29 |
| Oli`` | ali1234: that worked beautifully btw | 01:29 |
| lardman | not other than it's linked into the libosso stuff | 01:29 |
| Pavlov | but works fine if i run from the command line :/ | 01:29 |
| Oli`` | ali1234: thanks | 01:29 |
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| lardman | Pavlov: dunno, sorry | 01:30 |
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| Pavlov | hrm | 01:31 |
| Pavlov | it sometimes works too, heh | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | lardman: I see a shitload of *.launcher files | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea beyond that | 01:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry s/ lardman / Pavlov | 01:33 |
| ali1234 | Pavlov: to have your current running instance pop up when you start a .desktop launcher, you need to implement some dbus magic - or so i heard | 01:33 |
| Pavlov | ali1234: hmm | 01:33 |
| Pavlov | we've got code to look for running app and do the right thing, but not via dbus | 01:33 |
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| toggles_w | lardman: know anything about the motorola s805? i think i'm leaning towars them as they are usb charge where nokia's are pin | 01:34 |
| Pavlov | wonder what magic we'd need | 01:34 |
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| lardman | toggles_w: afraid not, I have a pair of jabra bt320s | 01:35 |
| Pavlov | ali1234: any idea where i'd even look? | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus-send osso-wm tofront myalterego? | 01:35 |
| lardman | but am thinking about getting some mp3 supporting ones | 01:35 |
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| toggles_w | lardman: i was hoping you could tell me if they were mp3 ;-) | 01:36 |
| Pavlov | DocScrutinizer: mm | 01:36 |
| gadgetoid | fix bluetooth keyboard support kthnx | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevermind | 01:36 |
| toggles_w | even though i really want ogg as well ;-) | 01:36 |
| Pavlov | i can definitely make our code send dbus commands | 01:36 |
| ali1234 | Pavlov: no, sorry. javispedro told me this is one reason why i shouldn't write apps in raw X11 - because i have to handle that myself. apparently if you use higher level libs it's done for you? but i wouldn't know about that :) | 01:36 |
| lardman | toggles_w: seems to be bloody hard to find out actually | 01:36 |
| toggles_w | yeah, no specs | 01:36 |
| lardman | toggles_w: well they won't directly decode oggs no matter what | 01:36 |
| ali1234 | Pavlov: i'd guess you need to listen for one from the system | 01:36 |
| mikkov__ | RST38h: I found working source package for vulture's eye | 01:37 |
| lardman | but I was thinking about putting together a test binary to see what codecs are supported and asking people to put the info in the wiki | 01:37 |
| Pavlov | ali1234: ah yes | 01:37 |
| toggles_w | lardman: so what the hell do you do with the dongle thing on you jabras? doesn't that piss you off? | 01:37 |
| toggles_w | yeah, i read the stuff in the scroll back about that | 01:37 |
| Pavlov | dbus-monitor is showing a Method "top_application" not being paid attention to | 01:37 |
| lardman | toggles_w: snap it to my t-shirt | 01:37 |
| lardman | tbh I don't use them that much as the headphone quality is so much better | 01:38 |
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| ali1234 | the n900 headphones are the only earbud type headphones i've ever used that don't constantly fall out of my ears | 01:39 |
| ali1234 | they're great | 01:39 |
| * w00t cannot stand in-ear headphones | 01:39 | |
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| gadgetoid | hmm i havent touched the earbuds | 01:40 |
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| lardman | hmm, I didn;t get any! ; | 01:40 |
| lardman | ) | 01:40 |
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| gadgetoid | i war cans | 01:40 |
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| gadgetoid | err wear | 01:40 |
| lardman | must try to stop hiting enter rather than some other char | 01:40 |
| Macer | legend of the seeker reminds me of 300 | 01:41 |
| Macer | the way they fight | 01:41 |
| gadgetoid | if i lack punctuation its because none of the friggin keys work on this bt keyboard | 01:41 |
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| lardman | lol good excuse ;) | 01:41 |
| gadgetoid | great excuse i dont even get caps | 01:41 |
| mgedmin | haha | 01:41 |
| gadgetoid | the or numbers | 01:42 |
| gadgetoid | the n nine hundred is a huge step back from the eight hundred series in some respects | 01:42 |
| gadgetoid | the stand is a joke | 01:43 |
| Lorthirk | 'night pals | 01:43 |
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| gadgetoid | its like the creators never used an neightten | 01:44 |
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| lardman | night Lorthirk | 01:45 |
| lardman | gadgetoid: stand is silly I agree | 01:46 |
| gadgetoid | i want someone to make a case with a built in stand | 01:46 |
| ali1234 | gadgetoid: well, that's probably a good thing. the number one reason i hear why people don't buy a n810 is "it isn't a phone" | 01:46 |
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| ali1234 | "i don't want to carry that *and* a phone too" | 01:47 |
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| gadgetoid | yes but theyre all noobs to be fair | 01:47 |
| ali1234 | nope, actually they're all linux kernel hackers | 01:47 |
| gadgetoid | this seems like its got a horrific identity crises | 01:47 |
| n900evil | Hello peepski's! | 01:47 |
| gadgetoid | and crippling bluetooth input serves no purpose whatsoever | 01:47 |
| gadgetoid | unless they plan to sell their own external keyboard | 01:47 |
| n900evil | (irssi/dsl fail) | 01:48 |
| ali1234 | gadgetoid: i doubt they that on purpose :) | 01:48 |
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| ali1234 | *broke | 01:48 |
| lardman | is always hard to trade off tho, want something reasonably large to use as pda, but small to carry as phone | 01:48 |
| n900evil | gadgetoid: very broken | 01:48 |
| gadgetoid | ali1234 you never can tell | 01:48 |
| greenfly | gadgetoid: sounds like you really don't like it. does the retailer you bought it from have a good return policy? | 01:48 |
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| gadgetoid | i love it but i feel my pandora will get more use if it ever turns up | 01:48 |
| n900evil | lardman: inflatable tevhnology to the rescue | 01:49 |
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| greenfly | gadgetoid: heh, I'm on that waiting list as well | 01:49 |
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| gadgetoid | i bought it from nokia with a 30% discount | 01:49 |
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| n900evil | The keyboard is not that bad. | 01:49 |
| gadgetoid | and i still have my n810 | 01:49 |
| gadgetoid | yeah i should probably just put this bt one away | 01:50 |
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| greenfly | my problem is that I also have a blackberry for work | 01:50 |
| n900evil | gadgetoid: '' 50percent | 01:50 |
| greenfly | so when I switch between the two my instincts go to whichever keyboard I used last | 01:50 |
| mgedmin | gadgetoid, during the (brief) use, have you noticed any repeating key problems? | 01:50 |
| lardman | n900evil: kb is good, better than n810 | 01:50 |
| mgedmin | with my n800 the bt keyboard would randomly sometimes rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrepeat a key | 01:50 |
| lardman | I want a Psion 5 sized pda though really for pda stuff | 01:51 |
| gadgetoid | nope mgedmin just most keys not working | 01:51 |
| greenfly | mgedmin: I heard someone who had that problem only when they also did bluetooth tethering for internet | 01:51 |
| ali1234 | lardman: netwalker | 01:51 |
| luke-jr | lardman: you mean too big for pockets/ | 01:51 |
| luke-jr | ? | 01:51 |
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| luke-jr | yeah, netwalker XD | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | should have Mer ported shortly | 01:52 |
| gadgetoid | i have a three sim too sigh | 01:52 |
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| lardman | luke-jr: yeah too big for pockets is fine for pda, not for phone thp | 01:52 |
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| lardman | tho | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | lardman: any idea how I can tell if Mer booted? | 01:52 |
| luke-jr | I dont' have video out | 01:52 |
| lardman | no clue, sory | 01:53 |
| lardman | do you have serial output? | 01:53 |
| n900evil | I've considered a back holser for Netbook :) | 01:53 |
| luke-jr | in theory | 01:53 |
| n900evil | holster | 01:53 |
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| luke-jr | n900evil: that is an idea, but too easy for a thief? | 01:53 |
| n900evil | some sort of rfid rimg | 01:54 |
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| gadgetoid | put the netbook under yer coat | 01:54 |
| user___ | odd | 01:55 |
| gadgetoid | like blade only with computers | 01:55 |
| tigert | ali1234: n900 headphones are also amazingly non-tangling | 01:56 |
| ali1234 | hmm i dont find that so much. you have the flat cable ones? | 01:56 |
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| tigert | the wire wants to stay open | 01:56 |
| tigert | yeah | 01:56 |
| tigert | flat | 01:56 |
| tigert | i have also koss sparkplug ones | 01:56 |
| ali1234 | i find the rubbery coating is kind of sticky and tangles up a lot :( | 01:56 |
| tigert | and they end up in insane knots | 01:57 |
| ali1234 | hmm true, maybe they're not as bad as others | 01:57 |
| ali1234 | they still tangle tho | 01:57 |
| tigert | oh, i meant it doesnt get into knots | 01:57 |
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| tigert | bad wording | 01:57 |
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| * n900evi1 sighs. | 01:57 | |
| ali1234 | i guess the "stickyness" does stop it from tightening up | 01:58 |
| ali1234 | thus preventing knots | 01:58 |
| gadgetoid | i have to tie the lead on my cans up and find a spare pocket to put it in | 01:58 |
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| gadgetoid | whats the tv out like | 01:58 |
| tigert | its like tv :) | 01:59 |
| tigert | not hd | 01:59 |
| tigert | vut still usefu | 01:59 |
| tigert | erm | 01:59 |
| tigert | but still useful | 01:59 |
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| tigert | depends on your needs | 01:59 |
| gadgetoid | the whole ui or just video? | 01:59 |
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| tigert | whole ui | 01:59 |
| gadgetoid | shiny | 02:00 |
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| tigert | fun for videos | 02:00 |
| mgedmin | also, you can use the supplied cable to connect the n900 to big speakers (RCA plugs) | 02:00 |
| gadgetoid | good point | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pavlov: maybe that's helpful (esp first comment) http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#DBUS | 02:01 |
| gadgetoid | i am gonna dig up my barrel connectors and screen | 02:01 |
| ali1234 | actually the video out can be independent of the UI - notice that you dont see the controls of the video player on the tv screen | 02:01 |
| ali1234 | that's just some compositing trick though | 02:01 |
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| mgedmin | lcuk got two separate pictures at once somehow: one on TV out, one on LCD | 02:01 |
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| tigert | ali1234: right | 02:02 |
| ali1234 | i found the tv out was kind of blurry compared to the LCD but that's probably just a combination of composite video and TV upscaler ruining it | 02:02 |
| ali1234 | for video it is fine | 02:02 |
| tigert | ali1234: ye | 02:02 |
| Pavlov | DocScrutinizer: it looks like maybe i can use the osso_application_set_top_cb stuff | 02:03 |
| tigert | its not 800x480 | 02:03 |
| tigert | but its still fun | 02:03 |
| ali1234 | it could be, in theory. NTSC supports that. | 02:03 |
| ali1234 | (it doesn;t specify horizontal resolution) | 02:03 |
| ali1234 | it would have to be interlaced though, and then the TV has to deinterlace it = bad | 02:04 |
| gadgetoid | got a little in car display to test it on | 02:04 |
| odin_ | can I move libraries (which were installed into /usr/lib from extra-devel packages) into /home/opt/maemo/usr/lib/ ? (is ld.so all setup to pick them up from there just as well) ? | 02:04 |
| ali1234 | odin_: it wasn't last time i checked | 02:04 |
| ali1234 | but that was the old firmware | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | rootfs 233224 225536 3408 99% / | 02:05 |
| odin_ | SpeedEvil, ^^^^ my problem too !! | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I guess I should hold off on the app installing for a few moments. | 02:05 |
| Flandry | ya think? :D | 02:05 |
| odin_ | can I run an apt-get history ? | 02:06 |
| odin_ | I want to know which packages I put on in last few hours and then extract each one and take a look at how crap its been packaged | 02:06 |
| odin_ | I can then work out which libraries I can move to /home/opt/maemo/usr/lib/ | 02:06 |
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| odin_ | infact I see symlinks from /usr/lib/foobar.ext -> /opt/maemo/usr/lib/foobar.ext | 02:07 |
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| gadgetoid | i haven't checked what my app installs are doing yet | 02:08 |
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| gadgetoid | are libs that big a problem osin? | 02:08 |
| odin_ | they are brinking your box, they are brinking your box, please continue.... lols | 02:08 |
| odin_ | I don't know until I audit the packages | 02:09 |
| kalikiana | odin_, try "odin_ --remember", that should work ;-) | 02:09 |
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| gadgetoid | haha | 02:09 |
| lardman | hmm, those sharp netwalkers are expensive | 02:09 |
| tigert | if that doesnt, add sudo in front ;) | 02:09 |
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| lardman | umid m1 is slighly smaller and has less battery life afaict, and is much chea[er | 02:10 |
| odin_ | I am already 'root' (is that bad ? I am ssh into it from a proper linux box) | 02:10 |
| lardman | odin_: nah, I do that | 02:10 |
| gadgetoid | woah instant irc on mah little tv | 02:11 |
| gadgetoid | cant read the text but it works | 02:11 |
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| ali1234 | lardman: nice, i hadn't seen that | 02:12 |
| tigert | nite | 02:12 |
| lardman | night tigert | 02:13 |
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| AakashPatel | Hey | 02:20 |
| AakashPatel | How can I dev apps in C++? | 02:20 |
| AakashPatel | for Maemo 5 | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | AakashPatel: yes. | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | AakashPatel: But only if you don't use the letter p. | 02:21 |
| lardman | re netwalker, not a great review: http://www.pocketables.net/2009/09/first-impressions-of-the-sharp-netwalker-pcz1.html | 02:21 |
| luke-jr | AakashPatel: why not in Qt? | 02:21 |
| AakashPatel | Well, idk, I was wanting to buuld the protobuf library for maemo | 02:21 |
| AakashPatel | cuz the app I'm making requires it | 02:21 |
| AakashPatel | SpeedEvil, What do you mean? | 02:22 |
| AakashPatel | "But only if you don't use the letter p" | 02:22 |
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| luke-jr | AakashPatel: protobuf is a nightmare IIRC | 02:24 |
| luke-jr | AakashPatel: we switched to it for our game in #Armagetron | 02:24 |
| AakashPatel | The API is already done | 02:24 |
| AakashPatel | But we just need to protobuf lib to run on Maemo | 02:24 |
| AakashPatel | and its C++ | 02:24 |
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| luke-jr | AakashPatel: I'd just build native, so.. | 02:26 |
| AakashPatel | ah | 02:27 |
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| AakashPatel | Do i need to do something to the maemo sdk scratchbox env to make it compile c++ apps? | 02:27 |
| luke-jr | anyone know how to take a screenshot in Mer from CLI? | 02:27 |
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| AakashPatel | whats Mer? | 02:30 |
| Flandry | ~mer | 02:30 |
| infobot | well, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer | 02:30 |
| AakashPatel | <- maemo n00b | 02:31 |
| AakashPatel | ah | 02:31 |
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| luke-jr | AakashPatel: Mer is a project to try to make an OS out of the open source parts of Mameo | 02:32 |
| AakashPatel | I see | 02:32 |
| ali1234 | luke-jr: does it use omapfb? -> fbgrab | 02:33 |
| luke-jr | ali1234: no, this isn't an OMAP | 02:33 |
| ali1234 | does it use any kind of framebuffer X? | 02:33 |
| luke-jr | I would assume so? | 02:33 |
| luke-jr | it's Mer | 02:34 |
| ali1234 | then fbgrab | 02:34 |
| luke-jr | -bash: fbgrab: command not found | 02:34 |
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| odin_ | why is /usr/sbin/browserd so damn busy ? the device has been closed and shutdown for over 5 minutes now | 02:36 |
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| odin_ | do gif/flash adverts stop being animated when you minimize the browsers? | 02:37 |
| kynky | adblock plus, but dont think so | 02:38 |
| odin_ | well there is a bloody optimization for them... | 02:39 |
| w00t | and with tht, we wander into the realm of single tasking | 02:40 |
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| odin_ | I have webservers which run a load avg like 0.01 when idle | 02:41 |
| odin_ | lets see how far it goes down no everyting is closed | 02:41 |
| AakashPatel | erm how do i format an SD in maemo 5 | 02:41 |
| jebbajeb | so i go to build a debian package and there are missing dependencies. I assume i just need to add more to /etc/apt/sources.list to grab them from some debian repo, but which one? I don't want to botch my scratchbox ;) | 02:42 |
| odin_ | AakashPatel, Settings -> Memory -> ??? | 02:43 |
| gadgetoid | hmm transmission is busted | 02:44 |
| odin_ | AakashPatel, /sbin/mkfs.vfat exists but I'm not going to help you use it (for feer of you blanking your main MMC in the unit accidentally) | 02:45 |
| odin_ | s/feer/fear/ | 02:45 |
| infobot | odin_ meant: AakashPatel, /sbin/mkfs.vfat exists but I'm not going to help you use it (for fear of you blanking your main MMC in the unit accidentally) | 02:45 |
| AakashPatel | i see | 02:45 |
| AakashPatel | bleh ill just leave it out | 02:45 |
| AakashPatel | my old phone stored a bunch of shit pictures from apps on it | 02:46 |
| AakashPatel | and it kept showing up in my images app | 02:46 |
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| lardman | night all | 02:53 |
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| Ceron^ | how to transfer phone contacts | 02:56 |
| Ceron^ | and messages from symbian to n900 :l | 02:56 |
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| returnthis | Ceron^: I just used the sim car | 02:59 |
| returnthis | *card | 02:59 |
| Ceron^ | :\ | 02:59 |
| Ceron^ | ok... | 02:59 |
| Ceron^ | that doesnt transfer text messages :l? | 02:59 |
| sivang | hi all | 03:00 |
| returnthis | there is a transfer option, didn't use it but I imagine it would involve bluetooth | 03:00 |
| sivang | are there any mameo packages for installation on debian based distros ? | 03:00 |
| sivang | instead of just downloading scratchbox or is it mandatory ? | 03:00 |
| Ceron^ | O_o | 03:00 |
| * sivang is more asking to debianized ways to the SDK | 03:00 | |
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| toggles_w | im 2hrs into installing the sdk, 50%.. amazing.. | 03:02 |
| kalikiana | sivang, in principle you can install hildon libraries on a non-maemo debian | 03:02 |
| kalikiana | but you won't find things like mce there | 03:02 |
| kalikiana | or phone api | 03:02 |
| kalikiana | so I doubt most packages support that | 03:03 |
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| odin_ | toggles_w, 2hrs?? | 03:12 |
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| nonversation | hello | 03:20 |
| odin_ | hi | 03:20 |
| nonversation | I'm thinking of buying a maemo, but can't find the answer to a question I have | 03:20 |
| nonversation | the 3G bands support Tmobile in the usa, correct? | 03:21 |
| Flandry | N900 | 03:21 |
| Flandry | and yes | 03:21 |
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| Flandry | only Tmobile for 3G | 03:21 |
| nonversation | what about the philippines, on smart or globe? | 03:21 |
| Flandry | no idea sorry | 03:21 |
| nonversation | I dont know if Smart in the philippines uses the same bands as tmobile, or att | 03:21 |
| nonversation | can't seem to find that info =( | 03:21 |
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| odin_ | it is quad band, so why would it not work on a particular network ? | 03:22 |
| nonversation | i know the phone part will work | 03:22 |
| nonversation | the 3G is my concern | 03:22 |
| Flandry | doesn't work on AT&T here | 03:22 |
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| odin_ | as in I presume the US version works in PH | 03:22 |
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| Flandry | only Tmobile | 03:22 |
| Flandry | and of course not Verizon | 03:22 |
| nonversation | so you are saying only Tmobile uses that special 3G band, no other carriers use the same ? | 03:23 |
| nonversation | like smart or globe? | 03:23 |
| odin_ | due to network barring ? not sure to device incapability ? | 03:23 |
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| nonversation | huh? im confused | 03:23 |
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| Flandry | in the US | 03:24 |
| yoasif | http://stocks29.homelinux.net:4000/show/1982 | 03:24 |
| Flandry | due to insanity | 03:24 |
| Flandry | the 3G band is different for AT&T and TMobile | 03:24 |
| Flandry | only Tmobile's is supported by N900 | 03:24 |
| nonversation | sighhh i know this | 03:24 |
| Flandry | Verizon is CDMA so it's completely incompatible | 03:24 |
| nonversation | ok let me try to explain again | 03:25 |
| Flandry | that's the nonsense we live with here odin | 03:25 |
| nonversation | leaving att out of this | 03:25 |
| nonversation | the N900 uses what umts bands? | 03:25 |
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| odin_ | yes I dont like in a part of the world i which that nonsense is allowed | 03:25 |
| Flandry | i don't know, but it's probably on wikipedia | 03:25 |
| nonversation | ... | 03:26 |
| odin_ | http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ | 03:26 |
| odin_ | GPRS class A, multislot class 32, maximum speed 107/64.2 kbps (DL/UL) EDGE class A, multislot class 32, maximum speed 296/177.6 kbps (DL/UL) WCDMA 900/1700/2100. Maximum speed PS 384/384 kbps (DL/UL) HSPA 900/1700/2100. Maximum speed PS 10/2 Mbps (DL/UL) WLAN IEEE 802.11b/g | 03:26 |
| nonversation | ok now smart in the philippines uses HSPA 2100 | 03:27 |
| nonversation | meaning, its possible that 3G would work as well in the philippines via smart | 03:27 |
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| odin_ | well i see that in the list :) | 03:27 |
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| Ceron^ | how to get | <- sign on n900? | 03:28 |
| nonversation | in what list? | 03:28 |
| Ceron^ | in terminal | 03:28 |
| Ceron^ | find / |grep | 03:28 |
| Ceron^ | i need | | 03:28 |
| nonversation | a list of 3g bands by country | 03:28 |
| nonversation | wold be nice | 03:28 |
| nonversation | actually, Nokia should provide such since they sell in the philippines | 03:28 |
| jebbajeb | Ceron^: hold ctrl-fn (blue arrow on left) | 03:28 |
| odin_ | you mean by operator by country ! | 03:28 |
| jebbajeb | ah. /me happy. Up and running getting packages built | 03:29 |
| nonversation | I just need specifics for the 3G bands to see if they would match | 03:29 |
| nonversation | if the N900 can use 3G on more than just tmobile, then its not a complete waste of money | 03:30 |
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| Ceron^ | where does | 03:30 |
| Ceron^ | Pc suite transfer | 03:30 |
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| w00t | .... | 03:30 |
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| Ceron^ | data on n900? | 03:30 |
| w00t | fntstic | 03:30 |
| Ceron^ | i cant find the directory jebbajeb w00t ? | 03:31 |
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| w00t | appliction manager just shat itself and deleted all the catlogues | 03:31 |
| nonversation | found this, but doesn't help me enough http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands | 03:32 |
| * w00t goes to bed | 03:32 | |
| kurtan | Ceron^: check this thread out: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34926 | 03:32 |
| Ceron^ | thx, but another question | 03:33 |
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| Ceron^ | i want to transfer music to my device | 03:33 |
| Ceron^ | how do i do it :P | 03:33 |
| nonversation | ok found this SMART Philippines 02006-05-01May 2006 850/2100 | 03:33 |
| nonversation | Globe Philippines 02006-05-01May 2006 2100 | 03:33 |
| Ceron^ | i tried to pc suite and it looks ok but cant find it :( | 03:33 |
| Ceron^ | on phone | 03:33 |
| nonversation | and the N900 does not support umts 850? | 03:34 |
| luke-jr | Mer have a VNC server? <.< | 03:34 |
| nonversation | meaning I might not have 3G there =/ | 03:34 |
| odin_ | nonversation, not by the looks of it | 03:34 |
| odin_ | does anyone operate 3g below 1gz? | 03:34 |
| nonversation | sighh, oh well. I guess that decides that I can't buy it , thanks everyone | 03:34 |
| nonversation | I would not have 3G in the usa, or philippines | 03:35 |
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| nonversation | tmobile coverage is very small, the phone coverage doesn't even work in my area at all | 03:35 |
| nonversation | useless | 03:35 |
| odin_ | yes have dual network here only 2 have 850/900 (whatever) but I woud thought 3G was not supported on that band | 03:35 |
| luke-jr | nonversation: reminder: n900 is not a phone | 03:35 |
| Ceron^ | anyway please answer my question | 03:35 |
| Flandry | bah | 03:35 |
| nonversation | can it make calls ? | 03:35 |
| nonversation | then its a phone | 03:35 |
| nonversation | haha | 03:36 |
| Flandry | of course it's a phone | 03:36 |
| Ceron^ | where does Pc Suite -> N900 -> Data | 03:36 |
| Ceron^ | get stored? | 03:36 |
| luke-jr | nonversation: my desktop PC can make calls too | 03:36 |
| Flandry | it's just not a great phone | 03:36 |
| odin_ | a sec Ceron^ | 03:36 |
| nonversation | oh, it has a gsm radio in it? | 03:36 |
| luke-jr | nonversation: nope | 03:36 |
| nonversation | then its not a phone | 03:36 |
| luke-jr | can still make calls | 03:36 |
| nonversation | doesnt matter | 03:36 |
| luke-jr | gsm radio != phone | 03:36 |
| nonversation | for sure | 03:36 |
| jebbajeb | Ceron^: what dir? | 03:36 |
| Ceron^ | well im trying to transfer data | 03:36 |
| Ceron^ | from windows pc to n900 | 03:37 |
| luke-jr | and I can probably get a GSM radio USB for it | 03:37 |
| Ceron^ | using pc suite | 03:37 |
| nonversation | unless they call it a tablet to get out of having to give it proper 3g fregencies | 03:37 |
| odin_ | how u hooked up Ceron^ ? BT? USB? | 03:37 |
| nonversation | frequencies i mean | 03:37 |
| Ceron^ | usb | 03:37 |
| luke-jr | nonversation: N900 is called an Internet Tablet, not a phone | 03:37 |
| Ceron^ | choosed pc suite | 03:37 |
| odin_ | u have tools installed on PC ? | 03:37 |
| nonversation | whats the difference | 03:37 |
| auenf | whats not proper about only support 2100/900 :P | 03:37 |
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| Ceron^ | yes | 03:37 |
| luke-jr | nonversation: it is the successor of N810, also an Internet Tablet, WITHOUT a gsm radio | 03:37 |
| Ceron^ | i already transfered | 03:37 |
| nonversation | those bands don't cover much of anywhere | 03:37 |
| Ceron^ | files to phone | 03:37 |
| Ceron^ | but CANT FIND THEM | 03:37 |
| odin_ | a sec Ceron^ | 03:37 |
| luke-jr | nonversation: the difference is that an Internet Tablet focusses on web browsing | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | gsm radio ... tzzz o.O | 03:37 |
| nonversation | yes the N900 has a gsm radio, thats how you make calls | 03:38 |
| nonversation | sim card | 03:38 |
| nonversation | quadband | 03:38 |
| nonversation | of course, you know this | 03:38 |
| auenf | you dont make calls on 3g (unless its voip) | 03:38 |
| Flandry | we do nobody a favor by pretending the N900 isn't a phone | 03:38 |
| Flandry | it's a cop-out | 03:38 |
| nonversation | you use data on 3G | 03:38 |
| nonversation | if you are lucky enough to live in one of the places that has these crazy bands | 03:38 |
| nonversation | that most countries don't use | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it has a gsm chipset aka modem | 03:39 |
| Ceron^ | nobody can answer my question :P | 03:39 |
| auenf | 2100/900 is used in heaps of places | 03:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | it also has a fs-tree m radio | 03:39 |
| nonversation | pull up the usa map and check the coverage, its worse than att | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | FM radio | 03:39 |
| luke-jr | nonversation: N900 makes calls with more than merely GSM | 03:39 |
| luke-jr | GSM is just a new feature | 03:39 |
| nonversation | I believe most of south amercia uses att 3g bands | 03:40 |
| luke-jr | N810 only made calls via SIP, XMPP, or Skype | 03:40 |
| luke-jr | N900 adds GSM | 03:40 |
| nonversation | i know this | 03:40 |
| luke-jr | then stop being an idiot | 03:40 |
| auenf | 2100: europe, asia, korea, japan, australia, nz, brazil | 03:40 |
| nonversation | yeah wikipedia says that | 03:40 |
| Ceron^ | stop talking useless stuff and help me :D | 03:40 |
| auenf | 900: europe, asia, australia, nz | 03:40 |
| luke-jr | note I don't disagree with your conclusion that N900 isn't worth buying. | 03:40 |
| odin_ | Ceron^, ok I am back | 03:40 |
| nonversation | but thats not enough info my friend | 03:40 |
| luke-jr | it's only your reasons that suck | 03:41 |
| Ceron^ | Pc Suite -> n900 -> Data foldder( where is it located on phone ) | 03:41 |
| auenf | thats most of the world there, and the 1700 is obviously for the states ;) | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | btw it also has UMTS | 03:41 |
| odin_ | into /home/user/MyDocs/ ? | 03:41 |
| nonversation | yeah im such an idiot for wanting to spend $600 on a device that can use 3G in my own country and others | 03:41 |
| auenf | 3g == umts | 03:41 |
| Ceron^ | nope | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | UMTS != GSM | 03:41 |
| nonversation | i know, but what you dont understand is | 03:41 |
| nonversation | 850mhz | 03:41 |
| nonversation | is not supported | 03:41 |
| auenf | 850 is used in not many places | 03:41 |
| nonversation | it appears the philippines uses 850/2100 | 03:41 |
| auenf | not compared to 2100/900 | 03:42 |
| nonversation | att uses 850 | 03:42 |
| Arkenoi | too bad nokia abandoned wimax | 03:42 |
| nonversation | I believe brazil uses 850 | 03:42 |
| luke-jr | lol? | 03:42 |
| luke-jr | almost nowhere has wimax | 03:42 |
| Ceron^ | Pc Suite -> n900 -> Data foldder( where is it located on phone ) | 03:42 |
| luke-jr | and iirc it doesn't work with N810 WiMax Edition | 03:42 |
| nonversation | So if im going to spend close to $600 , it might as well be on something I can use 3G on in multiple countries | 03:43 |
| nonversation | tablet, phone, whatever you care to call it | 03:43 |
| Ceron^ | aaw screw it | 03:43 |
| odin_ | yes its /home/user/MyDocs/ | 03:43 |
| Ceron^ | go away if you want to flame the phone | 03:43 |
| Arkenoi | luke: we have it | 03:43 |
| Ceron^ | odin_: i transfered 300 megs :\ | 03:43 |
| nonversation | you mean tablet | 03:43 |
| Ceron^ | its not there | 03:43 |
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| Arkenoi | in all major cities pretty good coverage | 03:43 |
| odin_ | Ceron^, are you logged in with a shell ? | 03:43 |
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| luke-jr | Arkenoi: nonsense, I live in a major city and nobody's ever heard of it | 03:44 |
| Ceron^ | odin_: i looked from terminal | 03:44 |
| auenf | 0 operators in africa and have 850 | 03:44 |
| Arkenoi | but yes, it does not work with 810 wimax edition | 03:44 |
| auenf | 1 operator in us, asia and australia use 850 | 03:44 |
| auenf | err, and brazil | 03:44 |
| Arkenoi | luke-jr, i did not tell is is everywhere wordwide, i am speaking about my country | 03:44 |
| odin_ | Ceron^, well mine maps "My Computer\N900 (PC-Suite Mode)\Data" to /home/user/MyDocs/ | 03:44 |
| auenf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks | 03:45 |
| auenf | lot more 900's in there than 850s | 03:45 |
| auenf | n900 isnt a mass market device, thats why its not available in all bands | 03:46 |
| auenf | maemo 6 will most probably be available in all the bands (couple of different hardware versions i'd expect) | 03:47 |
| auenf | <nonversation> So if im going to spend close to $600 , it might as well be on something I can use 3G on in multiple countries <-- 2100 3g network exists on every continent iirc | 03:48 |
| Ceron^ | odin_: what codecs does n900 support by default :P | 03:48 |
| Ceron^ | odin_: if i want to watch some .mkv file formats or something like that | 03:48 |
| odin_ | Ceron^, I found talk of .mkv in a packages from extra-devel repo | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nah, it's plain silly to use GSM bands for UMTS. that,s nonstandard and you mustn't moan if it's not supported by a standard chipset and phone | 03:49 |
| luke-jr | if N900 were more open, would it be possible? ;) | 03:49 |
| odin_ | does 3G exists below 1Ghz ? | 03:49 |
| luke-jr | ... | 03:49 |
| luke-jr | doesn't 3G *mean* above 3 GHz? | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not standards | 03:50 |
| odin_ | no in the UK AFAIK no operator on the 900MHz networks (there are only 2) support 3G on that band | 03:50 |
| Arkenoi | am i right that gsm bands are used for umts in countries where there is no gsm on that frequencies? say, if there is gsm-900, umts may be 850 etc | 03:50 |
| odin_ | all operators support > 1.5GHz bands | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mope | 03:51 |
| odin_ | that is my understanding anyway, we only have 5 operators all claiming "full national coverage" which is in the main true | 03:51 |
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| auenf | Arkenoi, the 900/850 umts bands came about by the operators 'upgrading' the towers instead of rolling out a new network on a new frequency | 03:52 |
| odin_ | so UK Vodafone and UK O2 both support 900MHz and some other band like 2100, the other 3 operators only support like 2100 (or whatever >1.5GHz bands we have here) | 03:52 |
| auenf | in australia, telstra had CDMA (not wcdma) on 850, they shut it down and turned it into hsdpa | 03:52 |
| auenf | odin_, voda uk prolly only support 900 as 2100/900, 2100 for down, 900 for up (or other way around) | 03:53 |
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| auenf | if your device only supports 2100, it will do both up and down tho | 03:53 |
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| odin_ | auenf, sure... the 900 days are from the first modules and 900 gives better (voice) covereage | 03:53 |
| odin_ | s/modules/mobiles/ | 03:53 |
| infobot | odin_ meant: auenf, sure... the 900 days are from the first mobiles and 900 gives better (voice) covereage | 03:53 |
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| odin_ | is there no dpkg log of everything installed and when ? | 04:00 |
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| jebba | cool. maemo-mapper appears to be working well for me for the first time :) | 04:05 |
| odin_ | 25Mb used out of 233Mb of rootfs, for /var/lib/dpkg (this is a bit excessive) | 04:09 |
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| sivang | kalikiana: ah, I see, okay | 04:16 |
| * sivang goes for the scratchbox SDK | 04:16 | |
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| kalikiana | odin_, you should use a different cache dir if you use apt on the console | 04:25 |
| kalikiana | it doesn't use the same as HAM | 04:25 |
| kalikiana | -o dir::cache=/home/user/MyDocs/apt | 04:25 |
| kalikiana | pick a folder of cour choice | 04:25 |
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| jebba | you'll also have to mkdir a few subdirs to get that command to work | 04:39 |
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| odin_ | no i use HAM | 04:45 |
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| dick-richardson | can anyone link to the n900 firmware? I get to the 4 dots on boot and it locks | 05:02 |
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| _vicky | hi | 05:08 |
| Venomrush | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | 05:08 |
| Venomrush | you need your IMEI | 05:08 |
| _vicky | i was trying to install python for s60 1.9.6 on 6681 using d sis file and i was geting error "file corrupted" | 05:10 |
| dmj7261 | symbian has python? | 05:11 |
| _vicky | d nokia site says tat my phone suppors this | 05:11 |
| _vicky | can ny1 plz help | 05:11 |
| sivang | dmj7261: yeah | 05:11 |
| _vicky | wat might b wrong | 05:11 |
| _vicky | i have updated d phones firmware | 05:11 |
| sivang | dmj7261: mnot bad support for it at all | 05:11 |
| dmj7261 | heh, didn't know that. | 05:13 |
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| sivang | dmj7261: I played with it on my flatmates N95 :) | 05:13 |
| sivang | dmj7261: it was so cool | 05:13 |
| dmj7261 | I suppose python support can't really be the killer python feature for the n900 then :P | 05:14 |
| jebba | _vicky: s60 isn't #maemo | 05:14 |
| sivang | dmj7261: not really , it runs beautifully there | 05:14 |
| sivang | dmj7261: I even managed to build and use an ipython | 05:15 |
| _vicky | bcoz it was in garage of maemo, so asked here .... | 05:15 |
| dmj7261 | I quite liked the n900 python. | 05:15 |
| sivang | dmj7261: during the Nokia Developer Day | 05:15 |
| dick-richardson | what's IMEI? | 05:16 |
| dmj7261 | id number for the phone | 05:17 |
| dick-richardson | ahh, that's no problem | 05:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | International Mobile Equipment Identifier? | 05:19 |
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| dick-richardson | how do you flash the device in 64-bit linux? | 05:22 |
| dick-richardson | run a VM? | 05:22 |
| fernand0 | a chroot environment should work too | 05:23 |
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| Arkenoi | is 42 still the latest | 05:23 |
| Arkenoi | ? | 05:23 |
| dick-richardson | looks like it | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dick-richardson, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba | 05:24 |
| hellwolf | I screwed /etc/pointercal.default file of my N810, and I can't startup my machine now. how can I restore the file without reflash the system? | 05:24 |
| dick-richardson | DocScrutinizer51, that's awesome, thank you! | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yw | 05:25 |
| jebba | :) | 05:25 |
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| Arkenoi | python was supported quite well on s60, nothing really new | 05:34 |
| sivang | Arkenoi: right | 05:36 |
| dick-richardson | and there we go; anyone tell you guys you're good? | 05:36 |
| * sivang is wondering about the use of a custom log class in the maemo new gui isntall script | 05:36 | |
| Arkenoi | actually killer scripting feature is not python itself but python-dbus ;-) | 05:37 |
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| sivang | Arkenoi: although overusing it starts to become sluggish, as exhibited on my netbook with Ubuntu 9.10 | 05:38 |
| * sivang should go back to 8.10 | 05:39 | |
| sivang | I regret upgrading. The system is much less responsive then it was with 8.10 | 05:39 |
| * sivang should actually build his own kernel | 05:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah, with a good listing of dbus methods and properties (right jebba? ;-) | 05:39 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer-8: are we talking about the same dbus ? :) | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | without those python-dbus won't help much | 05:40 |
| sivang | but this doesn't exist :) I wrote device detection code using it in python with trial and erro :-p | 05:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | yep, exactly my idea | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | jebba has a short list of nice calls | 05:42 |
| sivang | then he should publish them somewhere :) | 05:42 |
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| Oli`` | Is there any (good) reason the mail settings screen keeps flashing up at irregular intervals on my n900? | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | see URL 20 lines above ;-P | 05:43 |
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| jebba | sivang: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba | 05:43 |
| sivang | jebba: right, I'm trying to copy and paste it using my terrible Compaq Mini touchpad :-p | 05:44 |
| jebba | eh | 05:44 |
| jebba | heh | 05:44 |
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| sivang | jebba: :) | 05:45 |
| sivang | jebba: I see we should get a computer janitor for N900 :) | 05:47 |
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| jebba | uh? | 05:48 |
| sivang | jebba: re your bricking | 05:48 |
| sivang | jebba: that's something in ubuntu that does cleanup and logs purging and stuff related | 05:48 |
| sivang | jebba: I think it started with a spec of mine, although I can't be sure | 05:49 |
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| jebba | ah ya | 05:50 |
| sivang | jebba: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/make-free-space-wizard | 05:52 |
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| Arkenoi | quite common problem with n900 - when answering the call i take it upside down, it is too symmetric | 06:01 |
| johnx | I tend to feel for the buttons, that should be on the "top" (in landscape) | 06:03 |
| jebba | gah, debian vim drives me a bit nuts. How to get it to not automatically do foo~ backup files? (also / searching in it is real weird too) | 06:07 |
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| mallochigh | I have an htc kaiser booting droid, really thought I was going to love it but sipdroid isn't all that great for me. But everything is working well kernel wise now.. so I have zImage and could grab anything thats needed from the filesystem (/lib/modules maybe) to get maemo going.. Does anyone have any ideas, or recommendations before I get started. | 06:17 |
| mallochigh | Does anyone even use the sip client in maemo any good? | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah, /join mer! Stskeeps will love you for that | 06:19 |
| Arkenoi | yes, it is quite good | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | #mer even | 06:19 |
| Arkenoi | my sip registar is quite picky and i had no luck with sipdroid | 06:19 |
| Arkenoi | it worked with maemo sip client smoothly out of the box | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | sipgate working absolutely flawless here | 06:20 |
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| Arkenoi | the only drawback is there is no UI for selecting codec preference | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | even nicely integrated into dialer and phonelog (not dialing from contacts though :-/ ) | 06:21 |
| Arkenoi | which might be useful if you are going to use sip over edge | 06:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | Arkenoi: heh, didn't notice that. you're right :-) | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | maybe we should pester michel deBoer to port twinklephone to maemo | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | now with Qt that shouldn't be too hard | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | full integration into maemo proprietary crap would be another issue though | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | dunno how much of the dialer/contacts/phonelog/etc source is OSS | 06:26 |
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| jebba | i'm trying to build asterisk 1.4.27.1 right now :) | 06:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | well, asterisk isn't exactly a sip clientt. but for this particular purpose it might be exactly what we need | 06:53 |
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| jebba | it could certainly be used as a sip client too though. A monster of a sip client..... | 06:59 |
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| mallochigh | cool, just came back.. | 07:05 |
| mallochigh | Wish the contacts would dial :/ | 07:07 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, the interfacing to audio and dialer interface isn't *s domain. it's a B2B PBX | 07:09 |
| luke-jr | mallochigh: you realize Maemo isn't open source entirely? | 07:10 |
| luke-jr | mallochigh: your best bet is Mer | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | so for here best way to put it to purpose is to use it as a "proxy" | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | and interface via SIP from native nokia SIP account | 07:11 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | s/account/UA | 07:11 |
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| jebba | is mer roughly based on etch as well=? | 07:12 |
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| mallochigh | okie thanks for the low down, atleast things are inching towards an open platform. | 07:14 |
| luke-jr | mallochigh: 3D is the big catch | 07:15 |
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| luke-jr | mallochigh: the two embedded 3D chips are PowerVR and Qualcomm | 07:15 |
| luke-jr | neither of which are friendly | 07:15 |
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| mallochigh | yeah, the rev-eng on qualcom msm7500b (kaiser) is actually usable.. We have wifi sound and camera, i think gps/bt is close if not operational. I'm guessing another year 6 months and things will be near production quality.. right now its moving to a solid beta. | 07:24 |
| jebba | OMFG it built (for i386). Now to see if it'll crosscompile | 07:24 |
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| luke-jr | mallochigh: and 3D? | 07:32 |
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| mallochigh | Seems like the 3d works.. | 07:34 |
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| mallochigh | They had to make thier own drivers for winmo to get the 3d | 07:34 |
| mallochigh | I'm pretty sure it works in droid too.. | 07:34 |
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| luke-jr | mallochigh: seriously? | 07:34 |
| luke-jr | link? | 07:34 |
| mallochigh | battery may die, i will come back | 07:35 |
| mallochigh | http://code.google.com/p/vogue-android/ | 07:35 |
| mallochigh | http://www.androidonhtc.com/kaiser/install | 07:35 |
| mallochigh | i don't really know where src is but the vogue-android page has the names of atleast 1/4 of the real movers and shakers.. if you search thier nicks towards linux2go (not sure if thats right) or towards kernel repositories you'll find whats avail. | 07:37 |
| mallochigh | as far as winmo 3d drivers http://www.htcclassaction.org/driverprogress.php | 07:37 |
| mallochigh | that seemed to have come about via binary driver hacking from a simular model.. | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | that's nothing then | 07:38 |
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| jebba | OMFG it built for arm too | 07:41 |
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| mallochigh | yeah | 07:43 |
| mallochigh | but if it works on droid then im sure you could make it work on maemo | 07:44 |
| mallochigh | er mer | 07:44 |
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| luke-jr | mallochigh: I can't find any code for that project period | 07:45 |
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| jebba | Connected to Asterisk 1.4.27.1-1 currently running on Nokia-N900-42-11 (pid = 3016) | 07:49 |
| jebba | :) | 07:49 |
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| * jebba goes to sleep..... | 07:50 | |
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| luke-jr | mallochigh: downloaded the rootfs, and there is no OpenGL-related library in it | 07:58 |
| mallochigh | http://git.linuxtogo.org/?p=groups/mobile-linux/kernel.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/htc-vogue | 07:59 |
| mallochigh | oh okie. | 07:59 |
| luke-jr | GL is not usually in the kernel | 07:59 |
| luke-jr | kernel just does DRM and such | 07:59 |
| luke-jr | mallochigh: if you can grab a dev, ask them what they mean by GPU working, since there is no GL lib in the rootfs... | 08:00 |
| mallochigh | well then I have no idea. | 08:00 |
| mallochigh | I'll do that the next time I see one | 08:00 |
| rrr__ | isnt it in the repositories? | 08:00 |
| mallochigh | they used to hang in vogue-android, but I only see dzo and he rarely sppeaks | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | rrr__: what repositories? | 08:01 |
| luke-jr | rrr__: all their source links are dead except the kernel one, and it wouldn't be in there, no | 08:02 |
| mallochigh | Update(28/04/09): The GPU now works, all the OpenGL apps and games I tried work really well. This is something that WinCE still lacks on MSM7x00 devices. | 08:02 |
| mallochigh | http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ | 08:02 |
| luke-jr | mallochigh: yes, no evidence that is possible | 08:02 |
| mallochigh | that's dzo's work he is in #vogue-android | 08:02 |
| rrr__ | libgles2-dev ? | 08:02 |
| luke-jr | rrr__: nope, not even an instance of the word "Vertex" | 08:02 |
| luke-jr | which is required for basic GL symbols | 08:02 |
| rrr__ | hmmm | 08:02 |
| mallochigh | Well don't know what to tell you, maybe its a propietary thing to android? Go bugger dzo. I was just curious to see if I could get maemo via unionfs or the likes. | 08:03 |
| mallochigh | Gotta get on the homework now. | 08:03 |
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| johnx | m00f | 08:47 |
| crashanddie_mbp | yo johnx | 08:47 |
| johnx | mbp? is that new? | 08:47 |
| crashanddie_mbp | yeah, kinda :) | 08:47 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | johnx: what's new? | 08:49 |
| johnx | ...shiny. strangely, I had almost gotten completely tired of Mac hardware (since I work with it all day) until I had to deal with some guy who brought in his windows laptop | 08:49 |
| johnx | uhm...new? hmm. just imaged 21 dell mini 10v's for work last night | 08:49 |
| johnx | also, it looks like the pandora might finally ship | 08:50 |
| crashanddie_mbp | hah | 08:50 |
| crashanddie_mbp | pandora is like doom nuken forever | 08:50 |
| crashanddie_mbp | it will never see the light of day | 08:50 |
| crashanddie_mbp | or the day of light | 08:51 |
| johnx | i dunno. they never actually really *showed* any of the duke nukem stuff they were working on, except for that one craptastic trailer | 08:51 |
| jiiv | i was starting to think that about dell-preordered n900s :) | 08:51 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | anyone know where the source code for mbarcode is hosted? | 08:55 |
| johnx | like the source tarball or the svn/git/cvs/whatever? | 08:55 |
| crashanddie_mbp | git/svn | 08:56 |
| johnx | dunno about that, but the tarball is here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/mbarcode/0.0.8-0 | 08:56 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I offered to do some dev for lardman, and he took me up on my offer | 08:57 |
| crashanddie_mbp | lardman|gone: around? | 08:57 |
| crashanddie_mbp | c'mon! Nearly 7AM on a saturday morning, wake the fuck up! | 08:57 |
| johnx | so are you up early or up late? | 08:58 |
| crashanddie_mbp | it's only 11PM here | 08:58 |
| crashanddie_mbp | johnx: I'm in california atm | 08:58 |
| johnx | ah, right | 08:58 |
| johnx | didn't I tell you to stop by here? | 08:58 |
| crashanddie_mbp | didn't I tell you a 800 mile trip isn't fitting my schedule? | 08:59 |
| johnx | yeah, I just didn't accept it as a terribly good reason | 08:59 |
| johnx | but here's the svn tree anyways: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-barcode/ | 08:59 |
| crashanddie_mbp | ah, thanks | 09:00 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I never check garage, for some reason or another | 09:00 |
| * johnx checks google :) | 09:00 | |
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| johnx | there's a video camera app for maemo 5 right? | 09:01 |
| jiiv | doesn't the builtin camera app do video? | 09:02 |
| johnx | errr...maybe? | 09:02 |
| * johnx checks | 09:02 | |
| crashanddie_mbp | yes | 09:02 |
| jiiv | i think i've seen it on youtube. | 09:02 |
| johnx | cool! | 09:03 |
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| johnx | hmm...I hope there's source code for that ... | 09:03 |
| crashanddie_mbp | no, there ain't | 09:03 |
| jiiv | dunno :( | 09:03 |
| johnx | >_< | 09:03 |
| crashanddie_mbp | that being said, the camera module is in free access | 09:04 |
| crashanddie_mbp | with a customer kernel we could get access to RAW images! | 09:04 |
| johnx | yeah, should just be a matter of a simple gstreamer pipeline | 09:04 |
| johnx | (to get video at all, not RAW) | 09:04 |
| johnx | I wonder if it has enough guts to record from the front and back camera at the same time :> | 09:06 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | no | 09:07 |
| crashanddie_mbp | it uses the same data bus to access both cameras | 09:07 |
| jiiv | :/ | 09:07 |
| crashanddie_mbp | so you can only have one on at any given time | 09:07 |
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| johnx | I can live with that I guess. can just flip back and forth and take a frame out of the front camera every 5 seconds | 09:08 |
| johnx | ...I'll need to fab up a windshield mount that still lets the front camera see out the front of the car ... | 09:09 |
| crashanddie_mbp | johnx: get a real camera | 09:09 |
| johnx | I want data from the accelerometer and gps as well as the cell capabilities | 09:10 |
| johnx | and before you start suggesting a whole bunch of professional gear, price is somewhat of a concern, as is portability/convenience | 09:11 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | johnx: dmc-lx3 | 09:12 |
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| crashanddie_mbp | johnx: you can get it for roughly ~350 if you pick up a good price, it's still a compact -- but for the high end, photo-savvy market, full manual controls + leica lens! | 09:12 |
| johnx | which is, AFAICT, missing the gps, accelerometer and GSM modem | 09:13 |
| crashanddie_mbp | it has two accelerometers actually, but that's beside the point | 09:13 |
| crashanddie_mbp | you want decent photography, go with a decent camera | 09:13 |
| johnx | I want mediocre photography in an all in one package | 09:13 |
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| johnx | in fact, the accuracy of the GPS and accelerometer worry me more :/ | 09:14 |
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| arachnist | you want video from the fron camera? | 09:16 |
| arachnist | mplayer tv:// | 09:16 |
| arachnist | it's a simple v4l interface | 09:16 |
| arachnist | (v4l2, to be precise) | 09:16 |
| johnx | ah, well that does make it simple :) | 09:16 |
| arachnist | front as in the 5mpix one | 09:17 |
| johnx | yeah, that's the one I want | 09:17 |
| johnx | though I'd almost call that "back" :) | 09:17 |
| johnx | I wonder if Nokia's camera app does anything smart in terms of encoding video on the DSP ... | 09:17 |
| crashanddie_mbp | nope | 09:18 |
| RST38h | johnx: accelerometer is ok | 09:18 |
| RST38h | GPS sucks, probably even more than the one in n810 | 09:19 |
| johnx | I thought i heard someone say the front/back direction had less "resolution" than side to side and up and down though | 09:19 |
| arachnist | i wouldn't say it sucks that bad | 09:19 |
| arachnist | in a tram, i got a lock in 20s | 09:20 |
| arachnist | and it followed me all the way back home | 09:20 |
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| johnx | as much as I said that all-in-one would be nice, I could supplant the GPS with a cheapie bt GPS if really necessary | 09:20 |
| crashanddie_mbp | yo z4chh dude! | 09:22 |
| crashanddie_mbp | I love it when functions are properly named | 09:24 |
| crashanddie_mbp | "analyse_image" | 09:24 |
| johnx | the important thing is that the GPS track time and video time sync up nicely as well as the recorded accelerometer data | 09:24 |
| fredrin | johnx: whats your project? | 09:25 |
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| johnx | fredrin, automotive telemetry recording | 09:26 |
| fredrin | eh | 09:26 |
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| johnx | kind of a proof of concept: "what information can we get?" then later we'll get to "how can we use this data?" and much later "how can we learn from this data?" | 09:27 |
| jaem_ | hey folks | 09:30 |
| johnx | allo jaem_ | 09:30 |
| jiiv | hi there. | 09:30 |
| jaem_ | I'm a bit confused | 09:31 |
| jaem_ | Qt's QPoint class has a manhattanLength() function | 09:31 |
| jaem_ | which is a one-liner | 09:31 |
| jaem_ | however, the QPointF (floating point version) only got that function added in 4.6 | 09:32 |
| jaem_ | ...did I mention it's a one-liner? :S | 09:32 |
| jaem_ | ...this came up because I'm trying to test an app on the N810 that was coded for the N900 | 09:33 |
| jiiv | i'm not terribly qtish, sorry. :/ | 09:34 |
| jaem_ | silly Qt | 09:34 |
| jaem_ | jiiv, it's not really an issue, just a silly annoyance | 09:35 |
| jaem_ | it's easy enough to write my own function, just odd that it's necessary | 09:35 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Well...mm...the accelerometer reports -1000..1000 in each direction | 09:36 |
| jaem_ | johnx what sort of data is this app collecting? | 09:36 |
| RST38h | johnx: I kinda suspect that the difference in resolution is purely fictional and may be cause by the fact that it is easier to tilt the thing sideways :) | 09:37 |
| johnx | jaem_, as much as possible. at least gps and accelerometer data, and hopefully at least some low quality video out of the 5mp camera | 09:37 |
| johnx | RST38h, cool. with any luck I can get my hands on a "real" (read: single purpose) accelerometer and do some side-by-side testing | 09:38 |
| johnx | the hardest part may well be recording it in such a way that we can reintegrate it later | 09:40 |
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| johnx | hmmm, mplayer tv:// works, but mencoder tv:// -o foo... fails | 10:01 |
| johnx | s/fails/succeeds with a little more work/ | 10:02 |
| infobot | johnx meant: hmmm, mplayer tv:// works, but mencoder tv:// -o foo... succeeds with a little more work | 10:02 |
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| johnx | looks like it can handle 15fps video without too much pain | 10:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: accelerometers vary a lot, depending on the construction. so, I would rather suggest comparing 5-10 N900s to see if the returned values are consistent :) | 10:10 |
| johnx | RST38h, well, if I get my way, that very well might happen :) | 10:11 |
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| GAN900 | Morning, #maemo! | 10:19 |
| jiiv | hi there. | 10:19 |
| luke-jr | GAN900: Mer is slow w/o hw accel 3D | 10:20 |
| luke-jr | :/ | 10:20 |
| johnx | GAN900, mornin' | 10:20 |
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| GAN900 | luke-jr, OK? | 10:21 |
| GAN900 | j | 10:21 |
| luke-jr | :p | 10:21 |
| luke-jr | other than that, my port seems to be getting there | 10:22 |
| luke-jr | need to get Wifi working | 10:22 |
| johnx | luke-jr, so pretend I work for an insurance company with lots of lobbying power: What kind of data would be most helpful for me to record from your car? | 10:22 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: if I was speeding, you could decline coverage? <.< | 10:24 |
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| * DangerMaus yawns | 10:24 | |
| johnx | well, yeah. but I should also decline coverage if you tend to decelerate rapidly (panic braking) often | 10:24 |
| johnx | but what else? maybe I could record light and/or time readings and see if you drive at night often. that's kind of dangerous too | 10:25 |
| * RST38h should just decline coverage whenever he likes | 10:26 | |
| johnx | c'mon. help me spy on you :D | 10:26 |
| luke-jr | johnx: driving at night shouldn't void coverage | 10:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: install a camera and interpret his facial expressions | 10:26 |
| johnx | luke-jr, you're right. I'd just make it more expensive | 10:26 |
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| GAN900 | It's official, N900 GPS doesn't work for shit without cellular. | 10:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: Use a microphone to check if he is swearing when driving | 10:26 |
| RST38h | GAN: No news to me. | 10:27 |
| RST38h | bug 5337 | 10:27 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 Can't get GPS lock without network connection | 10:27 |
| jiiv | johnx: use a dataplan monitor to determine whether he's web browsing while driving? ;) | 10:28 |
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| * RST38h wonders if an anal probe can be used to extact any data useful for the insurance company | 10:29 | |
| johnx | RST38h, thought about it. might cause people to actually protest the law. out-of-sight, out-of-mind and all that | 10:29 |
| johnx | jiiv, might be good to listen for loud music :> | 10:29 |
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| jiiv | :) arguably an anal probe would be out of sight when in use. | 10:30 |
| johnx | RST38h, my comment was unintentionally timely :D | 10:30 |
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| johnx | maybe I could plug into whether the windshield wipers were being used. driving in the rain = unsafe | 10:30 |
| * johnx wonders how much the CAN bus reports... | 10:30 | |
| DantonicN800 | hey, is it possible to share the 3g connection of the n900 with my n800? | 10:32 |
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| DantonicN800 | not working via bluetooth | 10:32 |
| johnx | there was some post about enabling more BT profiles on the N900. looked at it already? | 10:33 |
| jiiv | i think it doesn't work out of the box, but there's a writeup on the wiki or something? | 10:33 |
| DantonicN800 | no | 10:33 |
| DantonicN800 | ok i'll look in the wiki | 10:33 |
| jiiv | i'd go find it but i'm sleepy and lazy right now :( | 10:34 |
| johnx | I see something about tethering over usb, but I don't know if that would help all that much on the N800 ... | 10:35 |
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| GAN900 | Documentation brainstorm, if anybody has any specific issues they'd like addressed let me know and I'll dump them into the discussion. | 11:04 |
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| divinegod | how do I get gstreamer in maemo to decode using avc1? | 11:20 |
| * PaulFertser likes how the official reaction on bug 5337 confirms what he said earlier about nokia, same story, different faces, same outcome. | 11:21 | |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 Can't get GPS lock without network connection | 11:21 |
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| RST38h | where is the "official reaction" anyway? | 11:25 |
| BluesLee | is there a offline reader like evopedia on the n900 abvailable? | 11:25 |
| BluesLee | i should say wikipedia reader | 11:25 |
| BluesLee | http://www.reitwiessner.de/openmoko/evopedia.html | 11:25 |
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| PaulFertser | RST38h: i see none except for Comment #1 from Andre Klapper (maemo.org) ;) | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | and that's our bugmaster responding to it | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | that's not a official response :P | 11:29 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: they refused to fix a similar issue on n810 and introduced agps instead. Now some new folks finally understood that agps is not the solution, and nokia keeps silence. | 11:29 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: that's my point, no sensible reaction from nokia whatsoever. | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: there's an internal bug | 11:30 |
| Arkenoi | agps on n810, a tablet with no builtin cellular connectivity? quite weird | 11:30 |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: the internal-external bugtracker issue dates back to 2006 iirc and it seems that internal still wins. Well done nokia. | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | meh :P | 11:31 |
| kynky | on winmo , didnt mind the solution of quickgps + real intrnal gps, but nokia doesnt cache the satelites on n900 afaik | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: i doagree the issue should be fixed though | 11:31 |
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| PaulFertser | Arkenoi: exactly. Nokia said well, we checked everything and it's good, if you need faster fix times use our beta-proprietary agps software. | 11:31 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: I think you have no clear understanding of Nokia's bugfixing process | 11:32 |
| johnx | would at least be nice to see a "we're looking at it internally. no need to keep confirming it, but please keep voting." | 11:32 |
| RST38h | Or their GPS implementation | 11:32 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: i do not care about the issue that much. I care about being nice to the customers. Keeping silence and not admitting the issue is not nice. | 11:32 |
| kynky | which works well when you have no cellular signal? | 11:32 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: indeed. I do not have access to the internal bugtracker. I see from the outside that to anybody who reports a bug the process is very untransparent and frustrating. | 11:33 |
| RST38h | PaulFerster: First of all, Andre Klapper is not really working on Maemo development. He is simply managing the maemo.org Bugzilla. | 11:33 |
| RST38h | PaulFerster: It is not the internal bugtracker issue, it is the issue with you not willing to understand details | 11:33 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: i know that already | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | how about we start a bug how to cache AGPS data? | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, it should be possible | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | or pre-cache | 11:33 |
| kynky | it is possible | 11:33 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: Perfect. Then you know that a bugtracker comment from Andre DOES NOT constitute any official reaction from Nokia | 11:34 |
| kynky | just not implemented | 11:34 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: the above bug isenough | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | for travellers | 11:34 |
| kynky | prob just easier to pair with external bt dongle, which is annoying | 11:34 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: the idea is that having an internal bugtracker is mad confusing and frustrating to the outsiders. I can't see why you keep defending this broken process. Moreover there's a special ticket tracking migration to the external bugtracker, it's one of the official goals, dating back to 2006. | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it's weird to me that a normal fix isn't possible | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser:we had this discussion once | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | why bother repeating it? :P | 11:35 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: Furthermore, if you knew what you were talking about, you would take into account that whatever software Nokia implements is limited by the GPS hardware used in N810/N900 (TI53xx chip) | 11:35 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: yes, that's the problem i outlined before: no official responce from nokia whatsoever about quite an important bug. And it's the second time serious problems with gps arise and it's the same shit nokia does again... | 11:35 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: (bother repeating) no idea, RST38h is provoking me ;) | 11:35 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: My guess is that it is impossible without adding a lot of code, and THAT is why they are unwilling to start on it | 11:35 |
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| redeeman | im wondering, is it normal that the N900 swaps nearly all the time? | 11:36 |
| RST38h | Paul: Well, Nokia cannot replace the physical chip | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: remember what chip it is i don't think gps5300 | 11:36 |
| kynky | they can implement sw solutions | 11:36 |
| RST38h | And Maemo software developers are not responsible for hw design anyway | 11:36 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: It is either 5300 or its next incarnation. A moment. | 11:36 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: they both suck royally though | 11:36 |
| RST38h | kynky: they DID implement a sw solution that requires connectivity | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: cos this one is 'more open' afaik | 11:37 |
| johnx | redeeman, yup. it's part of what makes it so good at multitasking | 11:37 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: the chip is quite possibly ok, i suspect that n810 had a faulty library interfacing to it. Nokia refused to get any debug info from the the proprietary library in the open so this claim is neither confirmed nor dismissed. | 11:37 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I think this one is NaviLink 5350 | 11:37 |
| johnx | nokia has /proc/sys/vm/swappiness set at 100 (out of 100), which is frankly awesome to me :) | 11:37 |
| kynky | RST38h, constant connectivity, if they implemented something llike quickgps, you just need initial connectivity | 11:37 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: "I think" is opinion, not a fact | 11:38 |
| redeeman | johnx: ah, i was worried for a while there, but won't that do serious wear on the flash? | 11:38 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: neither a fact that the chip is faulty. Nokia refused to confirm or deny it. | 11:38 |
| RST38h | johnx: Is it good or bad? =) | 11:38 |
| RST38h | The chip is not faulty. | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: class action suits? :P | 11:38 |
| RST38h | Just week. For this particular fact you do not need Nokia's confirmation. | 11:38 |
| johnx | redeeman, I imagine they've stress tested the heck out of it. From my own (strictly anecdotal) experience, I've been swapping to SD cards for 4 years and haven't killed one yet (from swapping) | 11:38 |
| RST38h | s/week/weak/ | 11:38 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: Just weak. For this particular fact you do not need Nokia's confirmation. | 11:38 |
| * brbrbr greet anyone :) | 11:38 | |
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| RST38h | TI clearly status that it is an AGPS chip, check the datasheet | 11:39 |
| RST38h | states | 11:39 |
| kynky | so not gps + agps ? | 11:39 |
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| PaulFertser | RST38h: i'm not sure that explains it. After getting the fix the device keeps it in harsh conditions, that probably confirms that selectivity and other physical properties are good enough. | 11:39 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's pretty cool. the kernel hacker who designed that part of the memory subsystem said that he prefers the behavior with swappiness set to 100, but most distros put it between 40 and 60, and the N8x0 had it at 1 when swap was enabled | 11:39 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I think the minimal solution will require 2 things | 11:39 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Both are not hard to do, but Nokians apparently have different priorities from the users | 11:40 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: AGPS means GPS with A capability, not that A is mandatory for decent performance. | 11:40 |
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| RST38h | PaulFertser: No. | 11:40 |
| redeeman | johnx: i know about the guy, but i also disagree strongly with his swapping preferences | 11:40 |
| redeeman | johnx: that guy does not know anything about a proper desktop experience, he would rather trade jerky window movement and such, for somewhat faster kernel compilation | 11:40 |
| johnx | redeeman, you can probably just echo n > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness | 11:41 |
| redeeman | yeah i already did, but it still swaps alot | 11:41 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: One is keeping the last used ephemeris data. Second is that A-GPS UI with the map that lets me select my location manually and downloads new ephemeris over WiFi | 11:41 |
| johnx | redeeman, even with n = 1? | 11:41 |
| redeeman | with n = 0 :) | 11:41 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: well, we have u-blox 4 chip on freerunners, it's an AGPS solution. And we observed exactly that: GPS with capability to load ephemeris/almanac from elsewhere to speed up the fix. | 11:41 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I wonder if the second one can be done with some dbus command... | 11:41 |
| redeeman | johnx: it seems to use nearly all the ram | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: second one should be easy.. n n8x0 it was a gconf setting | 11:41 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: Ok, continue using your freerunner. | 11:41 |
| Arkenoi | e90 gps worked reasonably well without network connectivity, i guess the chip is the same | 11:41 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: and keeping the last ephemeris data is ~trivial for our ublox4 chip btw. | 11:42 |
| RST38h | Because N900s have that NaviLink chip and it is lacking | 11:42 |
| kynky | linux always uses nearly all ram, or appears todo so! | 11:42 |
| johnx | redeeman, well, it shouldn't swap unless it needs to i nthat configuration. how's the responsiveness with n=0, BTW? | 11:42 |
| redeeman | it actaully seemed more responsive, but it has still swapped abit | 11:42 |
| redeeman | johnx: but swapping is very broken in linux, it will swap even if it doesn't need to | 11:42 |
| johnx | redeeman, broken compared to ...? | 11:43 |
| redeeman | especially if you have a tmpfs filesystem mounted | 11:43 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Some forum postings do say that it is the same gps chip as in n810 | 11:43 |
| redeeman | johnx: i don't know of any system where it works, i just know its somehow broken in linux | 11:43 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: the only evidence supporting the "weakness" of the n810 chip you've provided so far is that it's declared to be AGPS in the datasheet. I'm not sure it's strong enough to justify poor reception of the ephemeris data from the sats. | 11:43 |
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| RST38h | It is never declared to support GPS in the datasheet, just AGPS | 11:43 |
| redeeman | johnx: i can give you an example | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35955 btw, seems intersting | 11:44 |
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| redeeman | johnx: i have a box with 32GB ram, theres about 10GB ram in use, 15GB is used as filesystem cache, that leaves 7GB completely unused, and yet linux decides to swap stuff out, even with swappiness set to 0 | 11:44 |
| johnx | redeeman, interesting. maybe there's another tuning variable besides swappiness? | 11:45 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: aren't you at the event? :) | 11:45 |
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| redeeman | johnx: theres not, i've been able to find nothing, and neither have other kernel hackers, some even go so far as to deny the problem exists | 11:46 |
| arachnist | redeeman: i didn't happen to notice things like that even with boxes that have 96GB of ram | 11:46 |
| johnx | redeeman, deny that it's a problem or say they can't reproduce it? | 11:46 |
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| arachnist | redeeman: what distro are you using? | 11:46 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: no, finishing thesis | 11:47 |
| redeeman | johnx: andrew morton thinks this is awesome behavior, since it can then quickly use the ram for new things, as swapped things are old! | 11:47 |
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| PaulFertser | RST38h: do you mean the 2-page product bulletin is the datasheet you refer to? | 11:47 |
| RST38h | Yea, that "datasheet" | 11:47 |
| RST38h | And yes, I hate it as much as the next guy | 11:47 |
| redeeman | arachnist: lots of people can reproduce this, also on less ram, i suggest you try mount a tmpfs, copy 5GB stuff into it, then you'll have your kernel swap like a madman, also, this happens on atleast debian and gentoo, with both vendor and vanilla kernels | 11:47 |
| johnx | redeeman, he actually replied in that way even when people complained about swapping with swappiness==0? or are you putting words in his mouth? | 11:47 |
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| johnx | and, I imagine tmpfs is kind of a different situation than swapping with no tmpfs | 11:48 |
| redeeman | johnx: i guess theres a slight chance he may have answered something else, but that is his stance, and as such, "bugfixes" that would change his favorate behavior are not really high on his list | 11:48 |
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| johnx | redeeman, so you submitted a patch and it was rejected? | 11:49 |
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| redeeman | no, because i have no idea what goes wrong, or how to fix it, it makes no sense | 11:49 |
| redeeman | i am not an expert in the VM system | 11:49 |
| arachnist | redeeman: centos on the 96GB blade here, gentoo on my 8GB desktop. sorry, couldn't reproduce it | 11:49 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: that bulletin proves nothing imho. | 11:49 |
| redeeman | arachnist: so you never have it swap? | 11:49 |
| redeeman | arachnist, johnx : http://redeeman.kaspersandberg.com:8001/ramswap.png | 11:50 |
| redeeman | somewhat old screenshot, but valid nonetheless | 11:50 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: On the contrary, active refusal to mention GPS in that bulletin (as opposed to AGPS) proves that the chip sucks at GPS | 11:50 |
| arachnist | redeeman: unless 24KB swapped-out or so counts | 11:50 |
| redeeman | arachnist: its less than i get, but still enough to display a problem, unless you used alot ram in the past | 11:50 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: i'd call that claim a speculation ;) | 11:51 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: with more debug data from the proprietary library it'd become clear if its cheap weakness or not. Alas nokia refused to provide that. | 11:51 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: Well, you made way more speculative claims than this one | 11:51 |
| arachnist | redeeman: running 7 or 8 vms on an 8GB box counts as a heavy ram use, i guess :> | 11:52 |
| redeeman | arachnist: depends on how much ram they get | 11:52 |
| redeeman | oh, and a brand new from 32GB ram box: http://redeeman.kaspersandberg.com:8001/ramswap2.png | 11:52 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: probably yes. I'm still waiting for some solid evidence but nobody's interested to provide it. | 11:52 |
| Arkenoi | in most cases AGPS means GPS with optional assisted mode | 11:53 |
| redeeman | arachnist, johnx: as you see, this is not really the behavior one would expect, and in my opinion, extremely wrong | 11:53 |
| PaulFertser | Arkenoi: exactly | 11:53 |
| johnx | redeeman, what command is that? | 11:53 |
| redeeman | johnx: htop | 11:53 |
| Arkenoi | having that assisted mode mandatory is big surprise for everyone | 11:53 |
| johnx | and what does free say? | 11:53 |
| redeeman | johnx: free/top confirms the same data, as does /proc/meminfo | 11:53 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: Why would anyone be willing to provide you with "evidence"? Are you prepared to pay for "evidence"? | 11:54 |
| Arkenoi | my old e90 had agps in specs as well and it run perfectly unassisted, just a bit slower cold start | 11:54 |
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| johnx | redeeman, what's the typical use of your tmpfs filesystems? | 11:54 |
| redeeman | johnx: the 32GB ram box doesn't even use a tmpfs right now, and i swappoff/swapon'ed after unmounting it | 11:55 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: If you check tht TI document, you will see that the bastards are very careful to avoid saying GPS | 11:55 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: And THAT is not a good sign | 11:55 |
| redeeman | on my 8GB workstation i use it for compiling packages in | 11:55 |
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| PaulFertser | RST38h: nokia customers've already paid for the devices. And the ticket in question (talking about n810 gps performance problems) gathered enough gps experts to properly evaluate the data. Also providing some debug info is not more than 2-3 hours of volunteer work for the nokia engineer in charge. | 11:55 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h: doesn't e90 have ti chip as well? probably even the same one? | 11:55 |
| johnx | redeeman, you ran swapoff/swapon and it immediately filled it with 400MB+? | 11:56 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Forum postings seem to indicate the same chip as n810 | 11:56 |
| Arkenoi | the only situation it showed poor performance was cold fix from moving position | 11:56 |
| redeeman | johnx: nah, it likes to do it slowly, over a few days | 11:56 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: I have not found more credible data | 11:56 |
| Arkenoi | then it could take 20 minutes or more | 11:56 |
| redeeman | johnx: but rest assured, at no point does ANYTHING come even close to using full ram, this is basically all the ram it uses, and it doesn't even use it all for disk cache | 11:56 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: Ok. Could you please tell what you intend to do with that debug info | 11:56 |
| RST38h | ? | 11:56 |
| johnx | redeeman, you don't run cron? | 11:57 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Yea, N810 also had problems with the cold fix from moving position | 11:57 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Cold fix from stationary took me about 5-7 minutes in Moscow | 11:57 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: evaluate if that's really the cheap supplying bad/incomplete data or rather the binary processing it is faulty. | 11:57 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Assisted fix was more like 40 seconds | 11:58 |
| redeeman | johnx: yes, and the few things that run are simple things like poke a website with curl and such, hardly something that would warrant this | 11:58 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: And what would you do with that evaluation? | 11:58 |
| tigert | hmm | 11:59 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: if the chip is faulty, so be it, everybody would understand and calm down. If that's software processing data badly, then it is getting fixed and the happy users will get the performance they expect. | 11:59 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: You have not answered my question | 11:59 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: what _i_ would do? | 11:59 |
| johnx | redeeman, submit a bug report, ask for an explanation of the behavior. I honestly don't know, but using that much swap with swappiness=0 looks somewhat odd. It is kind of an old kernel though (up for 393 days!) so maybe there were some changes in the kernel since then ;) | 12:00 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: Ok, some Nokia employee spends 2-3 hours of paid time, dumps some log, and gices it to you. You evaluate the log. What next? | 12:00 |
| redeeman | johnx: the 8GB ram box uses .31, and that's not so old | 12:00 |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: To be more precise: what advantage should we all expect from you evaluating the log? | 12:00 |
| RST38h | Are you gonna fix it/ | 12:00 |
| RST38h | ? | 12:00 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: post the analisys on the bugtracker along with the verdict. Other folks read it and confirm it's bad chip supplying bad data. Or not. If it's not the chip fault, nokia gets one of their paid employees to fix the binary library. | 12:01 |
| RST38h | Ok. So you are not going to fix it, just whine some more? | 12:01 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: how can one fix a bug in a binary library without access to the sources? | 12:01 |
| RST38h | Exactly. | 12:01 |
| johnx | redeeman, no idea. I haven't noticed similar behavior without huge memory load, even with swappiness in the 40-60 range | 12:02 |
| RST38h | And if you can't fix anything, then there is no use giving you the log. | 12:02 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: nokia decided not to share the sources, so that means they took the responsibility to fix it whenever bugs found. | 12:02 |
| RST38h | Have you considered that Nokia may be under NDA with TI in respect to 53xx chips? | 12:02 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: there's. Analising the problem is an important part of the solution process. | 12:02 |
| RST38h | I.e. they CAN'T open that code to you? | 12:02 |
| redeeman | lol, NDA for GPS chip? | 12:03 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: if they can't, then they should fix the bugs themselves, simple like that. | 12:03 |
| RST38h | Yes, what is strange? 53xx datasheets are not publicly available, so they are probably handed out under NDA | 12:03 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: but they claim the software is not buggy. Without supporting this claim in any sensible way. I simply do not trust them. | 12:03 |
| * RST38h suddenly understands that he can probably get those datasheets | 12:03 | |
| RST38h | PaulFertser: If you claim that YOUR software is not buggy and I do not trust you, what changes? | 12:04 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: they should either prove the software is ok or fix the bugs, that's their responsibility, customers paid for that already when buying the device. | 12:04 |
| RST38h | Besides, I can easily believe the software is not buggy, it just does not go the extra mile needed for uplink-less GPS | 12:04 |
| johnx | Proving there are no bugs? Isn't that like proving there is no god? | 12:04 |
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| PaulFertser | johnx: posting debug logs would help | 12:05 |
| lardman | morning | 12:05 |
| RST38h | moo lardman | 12:05 |
| lardman | hey RST38h | 12:05 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: it does, n810 is actually able to get a standalone gps fix, just in some conditions it takes surprisingly long. | 12:06 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, just so you know: You're preaching to the choir for the most part. I think everyone here would have either a neutral or positive reaction to that. | 12:06 |
| DantonicN800 | is there a way to tell if any of the ap's in 'testing' are optified? | 12:06 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: so why do they argue instead of agreeing that "nokia sucks"? ;) | 12:06 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, anyways, convincing RST38h that Nokia should give you some debug probably won't cause Nokia to give you the debug logs | 12:07 |
| lardman | DantonicN800: install and see how much space they take up? | 12:07 |
| DantonicN800 | :) | 12:07 |
| johnx | DantonicN800, dpkg-deb -X them to some directory and look at the structure they create | 12:07 |
| lardman | actually if you download the file, isn't there a command to list the files therein, that would show if there was an opt dir | 12:07 |
| DantonicN800 | if i uninstall purge it'll get rid of everything right? | 12:07 |
| DantonicN800 | ah | 12:08 |
| DantonicN800 | that sounds interesting | 12:08 |
| johnx | or dpkg -L some-package | 12:08 |
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| johnx | PaulFertser, also, http://xkcd.com/386/ | 12:09 |
| DantonicN800 | so how do i use it? save it in the directory i want first? then dpkg? | 12:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: he may also consider that the original gps bug has been filed by myself :) | 12:09 |
| lardman | johnx: does it have to be installed for that to work? | 12:09 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: yeah, one of my favourites, i sometimes feel i'm exactly that stupid guy | 12:09 |
| johnx | lardman, I ... should remember, but I don't. uhm, That is left as an exercise for the reader :) | 12:10 |
| lardman | :) | 12:10 |
| lardman | take note DantonicN800 :) | 12:10 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: in fact always was, even when i wasn't using the internet. | 12:10 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, nah, you and RST38h are *both* that guy :) | 12:10 |
| DantonicN800 | hehe | 12:10 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: i think RST38h either likes arguing too much or dislikes my opinions too much ;) | 12:11 |
| PaulFertser | There seems to be something personal in our conversations. | 12:11 |
| johnx | PaulFertser, nope. I think you're digging too deep. :) | 12:11 |
| PaulFertser | johnx: straight to the source ;) | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | did we figure out if they actually cache supl data or not? | 12:13 |
| lardman | the chap at the summit said they do, I'm not so sure | 12:13 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: they seem to actually cache those. | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: on n900 | 12:13 |
| lardman | ah ok | 12:13 |
| PaulFertser | Oh | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: fwiw, gps fix when on wifi should work, afaik | 12:16 |
| RST38h | it does, I checked | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: not sure if it needs a sim or not though. i think it might | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | to get local position | 12:17 |
| RST38h | nope | 12:17 |
| RST38h | No SIM, afaik | 12:17 |
| SpeedEvil | It seems quite a bit slo2wer | 12:18 |
| SpeedEvil | slower | 12:18 |
| SpeedEvil | fix from wifi vs fix from net | 12:18 |
| RST38h | of course, there is no coarse fix without cell ervice | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | so two issues, it doesn't cache SUPL data, and second, you can't pre-cache supl data | 12:18 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: which is broken if you haven't moved. | 12:18 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: "Smallest size: The GPS5300 NaviLink 4.0 solution integrates a complete GPS system into one chip" http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12607&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/gps_gps5300&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=ProductBulletin+OT+navilink_4 | 12:18 |
| RST38h | What N900 calls "coarse fix" is location by cell tower | 12:18 |
| RST38h | Yea, yea, smallest size | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I'm unsure about that. | 12:19 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: "complete GPS system" | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: as I was getting +-10m inside | 12:19 |
| RST38h | Speed: with status bar showing "coarse"? | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 12:19 |
| lardman | hmm, who's sampp? | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC, I'll pay more attention next time | 12:19 |
| RST38h | Speed: sounds unlikely :) | 12:19 |
| lardman | actually ignore me | 12:20 |
| RST38h | lardman: Only if you start complaining about "Maemo5 emulator" =) | 12:20 |
| DM_900 | hmmm... outta stock @ nokiausa didnt tak long | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i think we need to seperate bug report into "consider caching SUPL data" and "allow for pre-caching of SUPL data for travel purposes" | 12:20 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: You know what is gonna happen with those, or need a hint? | 12:21 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: and clarify standalone gps capabilities | 12:21 |
| DM_900 | Klowner_: got your replacement yet? | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i don't say this without some degree of basis in reality. | 12:22 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: the keyword is "enhancement" | 12:22 |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: pre-caching ephemeris doesn't make much sense most of the time since they're valid for 2-4 hours at most. Usefulness of almanac depends on the chip capabilities, the almanac is valid for more than a month so if you just get a fix in advance, you'll have it available providing it's cached properly. | 12:22 |
| RST38h | stskeeps: there are critical bugs, low priority bugs, and below them are enhancements | 12:22 |
| lardman | RST38h: What, Nintendo! | 12:22 |
| johnx | RST38h, the difference is that Stskeeps can actually drive over to Nokia HQ and slap someone with a frozen trout :) | 12:22 |
| RST38h | johnx: I doubt that | 12:23 |
| fredrin | PaulFertser: is it not posible to precalculate the positions? | 12:23 |
| lardman | yes it is | 12:23 |
| lardman | though requires some serious number crunching I understood | 12:23 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Funny thing is, this strategy is not specific to Nokia. We do pretty much the same (enhancement? will do it sometime... in 10-20 years) | 12:23 |
| fredrin | lardman: or a table? | 12:23 |
| PaulFertser | fredrin: ublox provides some agps+ long-living precalculating ephemeris service to their customers, so some advances are possible. | 12:24 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: So, that bug tracker title should clearly indicate that it is a bug and [preferably] human lives were los over it | 12:24 |
| RST38h | lardman: Btw, what happened with that nintendo snafu? | 12:24 |
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| kynky | no drnoksnes on maemo rep | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no supl cachng isa bug, for sure | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | for each gps fix, it will fetch 20kb data | 12:25 |
| lardman | kynde: good | 12:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, that they'd let him in the door with a paper bag that bears an unusual resemblance to a frozen trout? | 12:25 |
| pekuja | kynky: there's probably an unofficial package available somewhere | 12:26 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: (separating tickets) first of all, the customers should get a clear understanding of the hardware capabilities, i think that's "normal" priority and should be solved first. Second, all available assitance data should be downloaded from the chip and cached before turning it off. Somebody should check if loading old data can in fact harm and take care of that when powering on the chip. That should be the second, probably "enhancement" ticket. | 12:26 |
| lardman | johnx: might have to be a multiple attack with frozen kippers then | 12:26 |
| kynky | like qole ? but it a few versions behind | 12:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Bad data certainly harms standalone. | 12:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: I just doubt it will produce better effect than sacrificing a few rodents to the Tentacled One | 12:26 |
| fredrin | PaulFertser: and mixed with cellid data | 12:26 |
| fredrin | :) | 12:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I got no fix when mis-setting the date. | 12:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - not setting it at all | 12:27 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: predownloading assistance data should be evaluated separately, probably it won't make any sense given the hardware. | 12:27 |
| PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: i think our u-blox chip just ignores the ephemeris it considers old. | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: no, but it shouldn't try to get gps data when the data it got last was perfectly valid :P | 12:27 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: indeed. | 12:27 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: and also the ticket talks about some probably too aggressive high-level PM which should be discussed and fixed separately. | 12:28 |
| johnx | RST38h, point granted. caveat: it will only "produce better effect" if it is videoed and ends up on youtube :) | 12:28 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: the sane stratagy wrt gps PM should pe proposed, discussed and implemented. | 12:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: Even then... :( | 12:28 |
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| johnx | RST38h, Seeing Nokia's CEO chased down the hall by Stskeeps swinging a frozen trout wildly will be hilarious *to me*. Watching someone sacrifice small furry mammals in a tiny pentagram inscribed on the garage floor: not quite as hilarious | 12:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - which navilink is it | 12:32 |
| PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: even that is unknown for n900 :-| | 12:33 |
| RST38h | 5350? | 12:33 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 12:33 |
| RST38h | Well, that one I can confirm relatively easily | 12:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: Neither sounds exciting to me =( | 12:33 |
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| DantonicN800 | man, can't find a way to tether the n800 to the n900. maem-pan accordimg to the wiki? doesnt explain how to set it up | 12:35 |
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| Arkenoi | dantonic, ad hoc wifi? | 12:35 |
| PaulFertser | DantonicN800: if you want to know how to work with bluez4 PAN networking low-level (dbus-calls from command line) style i have some understandable examples. | 12:36 |
| Arkenoi | just connecting it as cellular phone does not work? | 12:36 |
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| DantonicN800 | PaulFertser, yeah sure, i just want to share my 3g with my n800 | 12:38 |
| DantonicN800 | my dumbphone does it but not the n900 :( | 12:38 |
| PaulFertser | DantonicN800: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#How_to_use_bluez4_dbus_API and later on there's a networking section, i wrote it after actually testing so it should work with any gnu/linux system. | 12:39 |
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| RST38h | N900 is reported to have Navilink 6.0 | 12:40 |
| RST38h | That is NL5500 | 12:41 |
| RST38h | I have tried finding the motherboard pictures, but could not so far | 12:41 |
| DantonicN800 | thanks for the links | 12:41 |
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| DM_900 | shute sow some hirez ones yesterday | 12:41 |
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| RST38h | url? | 12:42 |
| DM_900 | but where? | 12:42 |
| DantonicN800 | man, this is annoying. :( | 12:42 |
| RST38h | the disassembly video posted yesterday is not hires | 12:42 |
| PaulFertser | DantonicN800: feel free to ping me if you need any info about working with bluez4 cli style. | 12:43 |
| nofpu | morning all... my n900 keeps restarting itself... I see all sorts of speculation on the forums but cant find anything definitive... any hints? :) | 12:43 |
| DM_900 | i thimg i was just going thru gog.e images | 12:43 |
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| johnx | nofpu, have you tried reflashing it? | 12:43 |
| DantonicN800 | PaulFertser, i will ty. i'll checkout the link tomorrow. 3am, gonna turn in. | 12:43 |
| * VDVsx moos | 12:44 | |
| Stskeeps | moo vdvsx | 12:44 |
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| * RST38h moos back | 12:44 | |
| * VDVsx is in a workshop about graphics&icons :) | 12:45 | |
| nofpu | johnx: not yet... what's the best firmware? im new to maemo but write lots of c++ and Qt so want to hack around a bit :) | 12:45 |
| johnx | nofpu, the best one is the latest one released from Nokia. same one you're on now actually, but it's usually worth a fresh start to see if that might just clear things up | 12:46 |
| johnx | (my suggestion was mostly a "if nothing else works" kind of thing) | 12:46 |
| RST38h | Robert Lamb on tranquilizers in the space station: 'Sure, it hardly makes for a civilized evening aboard ISS, but it beats someone blowing the hatch because they think they saw something crawling on one of the solar panels.'" | 12:46 |
| johnx | have you installed many applications already? | 12:46 |
| nofpu | johnx: as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware. not really... but maybe a nasty one @_ | 12:47 |
| * RST38h remembers reading that on the British Navy ships, the whole crew has been permanently kept intoxicated, to prevent rioting | 12:47 | |
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| RST38h | I.e. running out of rum was a bigger problem than running out of drinkable water | 12:48 |
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| johnx | nofpu, yup. those would be the instructions to follow. if you've installed stuff from extras-devel or extras-testing, that certainly might be a culprit | 12:49 |
| johnx | Honestly, I've heard of other people having reboot problems right out of the box, but I haven't had the same experience, so I haven't looked into it much | 12:49 |
| javispedro | using the webclient from the n810 is awful | 12:49 |
| johnx | the IRC webclient? | 12:50 |
| johnx | yeah, I could believe that | 12:50 |
| lardman | ~curse gsl for not building easily | 12:51 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, gsl for not building easily ! | 12:51 |
| nofpu | johnx: thanks I'll try a reflash... maybe it's firefox - that's what usually kills my desktop :) | 12:51 |
| RST38h | javis: No SSH? | 12:51 |
| nofpu | firefox, openssh, load-applet, rootsh, vim... that's all I've installed I think | 12:51 |
| javispedro | no host to ssh into | 12:52 |
| javispedro | but dont worry | 12:52 |
| johnx | nofpu, heavy flash sites don't always behave the best. If someone told me there was a memory leak in flash, I'd be likely to not doubt them | 12:52 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS | 12:52 |
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| javispedro | i should pay attention instead of wasting time here =) | 12:52 |
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| lardman | which NaviLink chipset is it then? | 12:53 |
| nofpu | regardless of the restarts, it's still making my G1 jealous | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: work it out, fill it in. | 12:53 |
| lardman | the N810 has the 5300, i.e. version 4.0 | 12:53 |
| SpeedEvil | If the FM transmitter is indeed seperate, it's unlikley to be the 6, including bluetotoh | 12:54 |
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| lardman | hmm, is there no wiki page listing the hw in each device with links to the spec sheets? | 12:56 |
| arachnist | hm | 12:57 |
| arachnist | is there a hack to give unlimited time in the second game mode in bounce? :> | 12:57 |
| lardman | We went through the whole list with links when the kernel source came out | 12:58 |
| lardman | but was probably in this channel | 12:58 |
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| DangerMaus | hmmm no links on this to th emobo pics.. | 12:59 |
| DangerMaus | what box was i on | 12:59 |
| * DangerMaus bangs head against wall | 13:00 | |
| lardman | http://wiki.maemo.org/Nokia_N900#Detailed_Hardware_information | 13:00 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: anyway, my point was going to be that the FM and BT chips are known, I wonder if the NaviLink solution just packages up their existing chips on a package | 13:01 |
| lardman | in which case it might still be a later NaviLink version | 13:01 |
| lardman | why do we think it's a NaviLink anyway? | 13:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | dunno | 13:06 |
| lardman | Do we even know what the GPS binaries are? | 13:06 |
| lardman | as that's where the info about the N810's one being a 5300 came from | 13:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | lardman: it would be very uncommon | 13:07 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: for one chipmaker to package anothers chips | 13:07 |
| lardman | of course | 13:07 |
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| DangerMaus | https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1150151&native_or_pdf=pdf though the images are not high high rez might be able to id comparing to other chip pics | 13:31 |
| * frals just ordered a sheevaplug to play with until the n900 gets here | 13:33 | |
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| * ccooke watches his wife start setting up her new n900 | 13:36 | |
| ccooke | well, putting it together and transferring sim etc | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | hawt. | 13:37 |
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| mece | ccooke, damn, that's cool. My wife said she'd take one if I pay for it. | 13:38 |
| arachnist | frals: i have an openrd-client | 13:39 |
| arachnist | frals: really nice piece of hardware | 13:39 |
| frals | it looks really neat :) | 13:39 |
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| mece | have any of you had the problem with the N900 that the im clients have trouble reconnecting after the device has switched from wlan to 3g? | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika doesnt' look bad either | 13:40 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: what client? | 13:40 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: I know pidgin does on my desktop | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | (changing IP) | 13:41 |
| mece | well telepathy, naturally :P | 13:41 |
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| mece | Skype works well but ovi and gtalk have trouble. | 13:42 |
| arachnist | mece: no problems with jabber/ovi/gtalk here, only skype, sip and gadugadu are causing problems | 13:42 |
| mece | if the ip switch should trigger a logout-login procedure for all the clients I think we'd be in the clear on this one. or does it? | 13:43 |
| ccooke | mece: I already pay my wife's contract (it makes things easier)... and she was due an upgrade already | 13:43 |
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| * SpeedEvil tries no SIM, no wifi GPS lock indoors. | 13:43 | |
| mece | hmm.. well I've only done it once, so I can't really say it's a repeating problem. | 13:43 |
| mece | ccooke, my wife just bought an N95, and she really likes it. it was cheap too :) | 13:43 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: I hope you've stocked up with rations | 13:44 |
| mece | lardman, LOL | 13:44 |
| mece | I'm off. ta. | 13:44 |
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| ccooke | The whole thing basically cost me an extra £5 a month. Given the n810 has lasted her more than two year, paying an extra £120 over two years seems... a good deal ;-) | 13:45 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: I'm going to try outside - but trying that first would involve getting out of bed. | 13:46 |
| lardman | lol | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: oddly, it was reporting high signal on two sats for a moment | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe that was simply the app being confused tho | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | 22 and 16 | 13:47 |
| lardman | I had the occasional sat signal iirc, but quickly got bored of it | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | But after 30s of sat signals of that strength it should have a time fix, even if not a position fix | 13:47 |
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| lardman | I've just extracted the rootfs from the N900 update, will mount it and do some searching for the gps binaries | 13:50 |
| lardman | but might not be 'till tomorrow | 13:50 |
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| BluesLee | where can i find additional codecs for the default media player in n900 (mp4 format) | 13:55 |
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| DangerMaus | yeah good question ran into the need | 14:01 |
| BluesLee | its one from youtube, downloaded via downloadhelper | 14:02 |
| BluesLee | mp4 is a kind of container, right? | 14:02 |
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| BluesLee | a stupid questiona stupid question: how get i su on the terminal app? | 14:03 |
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| yannj | What package of QT to install to use QtWidget in scratchbox? | 14:05 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm - it does in fact seem to get an indoor fix - though only after booting outdoors | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | (with no cell-assist, and no sim) | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | n810? | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | n900 | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: so you just disproved the bug | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: maybe it's the antenna then | 14:11 |
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| Corsac | hmhm, n810 doesn't usb charge, does it? | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: I'm unsure | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: It had wifi connection a couple of times. | 14:16 |
| BluesLee | how do i get root on the n900, what is the default passwort? | 14:16 |
| arachnist | BluesLee: install rootshell package | 14:17 |
| arachnist | BluesLee: you'll be able to "sudo gainroot" after that | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: I hadn't killed that properly. And it would only answer the 'will it lock indoors after having a lock previously from net' | 14:17 |
| BluesLee | arachnist: from which repo? | 14:18 |
| arachnist | don't remember | 14:19 |
| flux | hmm.. on n900, as I don't have tilde in my keyboard, how do I enter it? the sym-dialog just toggles it, I suppose it works for accented characters.. | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | flux: ~ + space | 14:19 |
| flux | ah, too obious :) | 14:20 |
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| flux | thr dsme wsy it works on native finnish keyboard (but I use us layout usually) | 14:20 |
| flux | stskeeps, thanks | 14:21 |
| BluesLee | i should activate the Rd mode via the flash tool which is only available for windos? | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | BluesLee: just instal 'rootsh | 14:21 |
| divinegod | is it possible to install ffmpeg gstreamer plugins? | 14:22 |
| BluesLee | okay | 14:22 |
| flux | stskeeps, I suppose you don't have a trick for extending xterm on-screen buttons too, do you?-) | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | flux: i wish. hack the source? | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | it's OSS. | 14:23 |
| arachnist | i have ~ on | as on-screen buttons in xterm | 14:23 |
| arachnist | but i don't remember how i did that | 14:23 |
| flux | arachnist, on n810 or n900? | 14:23 |
| arachnist | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=386724&postcount=8 | 14:24 |
| arachnist | flux: N900 | 14:24 |
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| pekuja | any Saunalahti customers here, by the way? | 14:25 |
| pekuja | wondering if they've started shipping N900's yet | 14:25 |
| flux | arachnist, great, thanks! I'll pass the url to other people too :) | 14:25 |
| pekuja | I guess I'll check their forums. | 14:25 |
| arachnist | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=386536 | 14:25 |
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| pekuja | looks like they are shipping | 14:30 |
| pekuja | haven't heard about mine yet, but I ordered pretty late | 14:30 |
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| pekuja | hoping for next week | 14:31 |
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| _JP_ | is SSHFS available yet for N900? | 14:32 |
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| zemm | in extras-testing | 14:39 |
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| DangerMaus | whoa! almost tripped on charging cable/// | 14:43 |
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| Ashenburg | is the extras-testing repo http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing ? | 14:43 |
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| pekuja | DangerMaus: living dangerously? | 14:43 |
| pekuja | DangerMaus: unless you have a Mac, perhaps | 14:43 |
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| DangerMaus | no no the 900 | 14:43 |
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| Stskeeps | DangerMaus: you don't want to rip out your usb port | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:44 |
| DangerMaus | got tangles up in the rats nesst of chargers ect... | 14:44 |
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| DangerMaus | like whats his name | 14:44 |
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| DangerMaus | on the prototype yeasterday | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | like zerojay's | 14:45 |
| DangerMaus | gotta love surfacemount | 14:45 |
| DangerMaus | yepyep | 14:45 |
| DangerMaus | even though surface mount somethings still need a pin or 2 through the pcb | 14:45 |
| fnordianslip | Are the buggered USB ports happening on the 300 devices or the production models? | 14:46 |
| DangerMaus | even oif just to secure them | 14:46 |
| DangerMaus | he said prototype so prob b4 the 300 | 14:46 |
| fnordianslip | texrat was one of the 300 too | 14:46 |
| fnordianslip | is, rather | 14:47 |
| DangerMaus | he pulled out his too? | 14:48 |
| fnordianslip | unless my brain is failing me, yes | 14:49 |
| fnordianslip | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=397274 | 14:49 |
| * DangerMaus pats his and offers it some chocolate so his wont fall apart | 14:49 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Filling the case with melted chocolate as a strain relief may void your warranty. | 14:51 |
| fnordianslip | na | 14:51 |
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| Ashenburg | uh guys, have there been any issues regarding surfing on wifi? it doesn't load pages after a while | 14:53 |
| Ashenburg | if I d/c and reconnect it works for a little while | 14:54 |
| fnordianslip | sometimes i get a white screen in the browser, which can be kicked into life by scrolling the white page | 14:54 |
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| DangerMaus | havent noticed Ashenburg im only on wifi still as i havent installed a sim yet | 14:54 |
| DangerMaus | and the only other isue on wifi is a faulty rauter here than i have to go knck now and then | 14:55 |
| DangerMaus | *kick | 14:56 |
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| Ashenburg | could it be like a powersaving function thats behind it? | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | Ashenburg: try to disable power saving and see if it helps | 14:57 |
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| DangerMaus | well we got about 2 months till we'll see if everyones usb port falls off | 14:59 |
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| fnordianslip | DangerMaus: that would be a shame | 15:01 |
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| DangerMaus | that seems to be about when the 2 we know about went | 15:02 |
| v2px | is xchat from extras-devel usable? | 15:02 |
| fnordianslip | yes, but don't change the settings in the gui | 15:03 |
| DangerMaus | nother ever goes to production without something going awry | 15:03 |
| fnordianslip | edit the conf | 15:03 |
| fnordianslip | ^ re xchat | 15:03 |
| v2px | because it explodes if i change settings in the gui? | 15:03 |
| fnordianslip | yes (a little) | 15:03 |
| v2px | okay thanks | 15:04 |
| Ashenburg | power settings seems to have fixed it, I have much better youtube streaming as well onw | 15:05 |
| Ashenburg | cheers :) | 15:05 |
| lardman | hmm, don't you just hate it when you loose some code | 15:06 |
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| fnordianslip | lardman: yep. shouldn't ever happen though | 15:07 |
| fnordianslip | has it gone, or you just can't find it? | 15:07 |
| lardman | I've been flipping sb installations | 15:07 |
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| lardman | and deleted some old ones.... | 15:07 |
| lardman | so fingers crossed I have a copy somewhere | 15:07 |
| fnordianslip | u could try hosting a main mercurial repo on another box, and syncing the sb installs up with that | 15:08 |
| lardman | is ok now, have all my targets in the same sb | 15:08 |
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| lardman | not the end of the world, just a python calculator app with plugins that are useful for my work | 15:09 |
| fnordianslip | deepest condolences on your loss | 15:09 |
| fnordianslip | MIA | 15:10 |
| lardman | thanks :) | 15:10 |
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| lardman | anyone know how well the titchy BT dongles work? | 15:10 |
| fnordianslip | like the barcode thingy | 15:10 |
| lardman | like the ones in the SmartQ 7 | 15:10 |
| lardman | fnordianslip: thanks | 15:10 |
| lardman | fnordianslip: I need to move it to Qt and allow plugins | 15:10 |
| TomaszD | good day | 15:10 |
| lardman | hi TomaszD | 15:10 |
| fnordianslip | had a face off with an iphone in the office the other day. | 15:10 |
| fnordianslip | at barcode scanning | 15:11 |
| lardman | :) | 15:11 |
| lardman | well their code works better for some things at least | 15:11 |
| lardman | zxing | 15:11 |
| fnordianslip | mbarcode scanned more tags, but the iphone app was obviously more rounded | 15:11 |
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| lardman | oh right, I'm happy now :) | 15:11 |
| lardman | datamatrix codes are still not good | 15:12 |
| fnordianslip | don't know much about it, just playing | 15:12 |
| lardman | the code is slow, but I've just seen that there seems to be lots of options you can pass it, so it probably needs tuning too | 15:12 |
| lardman | but yeah, mbarcode is rough around the edges | 15:12 |
| lardman | but I aim to improve it :) | 15:12 |
| fnordianslip | can it cope with multiple barcodes in view? | 15:12 |
| lardman | the backend can, but I think I just return the first one | 15:13 |
| lardman | not sure how to handle that case in code really | 15:13 |
| fnordianslip | many things i tried to scan had multiple codes next to each other | 15:13 |
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| lardman | oh right | 15:13 |
| fnordianslip | well, a few. it wasn't a scanning marathon, just a distraction from work for a few mins | 15:14 |
| lardman | :) | 15:14 |
| lardman | it would be possible to return more than one, but I'm not sure how well that will work with the usecases | 15:14 |
| DangerMaus | once scanned is the reader sposed to get info on the code or you gotta do that monualy still? | 15:14 |
| DangerMaus | *manualy | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | TomaszD: l10n stuff going well? | 15:15 |
| lardman | I've disabled the webscraping code as it was segfaulting, and is generally crap as I wrote it in an afternoon | 15:15 |
| lardman | DangerMaus: Once I move to Qt, someone can write some decent code using e.g. Python | 15:15 |
| lardman | DangerMaus: 2D barcode contents are generally handled, for non-i-mode stuff, e.g. urls, vcards, sms:, tel:, etc | 15:16 |
| fnordianslip | it identified a metallica CD by name, for me. that was the best outcome i got. the iphone app gave some amazon links, but that's just icing on the cake | 15:16 |
| DangerMaus | kool i was playing with it yesterday thinking of the iphone and well... not done yet | 15:16 |
| lardman | fnordianslip: if you upgrade to the latest version it won't give you the name any more | 15:16 |
| lardman | just the barcode | 15:16 |
| lardman | but I'm happy to incorporate any webscraping code if anyone's bored | 15:16 |
| fnordianslip | i've not tired the version in devel yet - is it better to upgrade it now? | 15:16 |
| lardman | or AWS code for that matter | 15:16 |
| lardman | fnordianslip: 0.0.8? | 15:17 |
| fnordianslip | er | 15:17 |
| lardman | hmm, I guess I need to promote it again then, strange | 15:17 |
| lardman | fnordianslip: no real changes yet, some stuff added that's not working - like being able to open an image file and scan it rather than using the camera | 15:17 |
| lardman | but having troubles with GDK | 15:17 |
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| fnordianslip | i have 007 at the mo, having not upgraded when i last checked the state of devel | 15:18 |
| lardman | I only uploaded it as it fixed a segfault for diablo users which stopped them completelyt | 15:18 |
| fnordianslip | haha | 15:18 |
| lardman | fnordianslip: stick with than unless you get segfaults from the webscraper | 15:18 |
| fnordianslip | dinosaurs :) | 15:18 |
| lardman | :) | 15:18 |
| DangerMaus | looking for version | 15:18 |
| fnordianslip | my 800 is sulking somewhere from lack of attention | 15:19 |
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| DangerMaus | i dont know whatever was in testing the other dat | 15:20 |
| DangerMaus | day | 15:20 |
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| fnordianslip | hmm. trying to build some C++ code in sb that normally builds python bindings, but configure is saying this: | 15:23 |
| fnordianslip | checking whether python distutils can build an extension module... no | 15:23 |
| fnordianslip | any idea how to ix it? | 15:24 |
| fnordianslip | fix, even | 15:24 |
| lardman | no, but look in the configure script to see what the check is | 15:24 |
| Venomrush | World Cup draw = EASY! (England Algeria Slovenia Yankee) England can joke through to the semis, without Beckham, even the final! | 15:24 |
| fnordianslip | oh no, not the septics, they'll beat us for sure | 15:25 |
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| andre__ | Sigh, I want a "No thanks" button in Talk. People like "linuxeventually" send users to -devel without warning. By purpose. | 15:31 |
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| fnordianslip | andre__: +1 | 15:31 |
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| DangerMaus | hehe | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: "report ost" | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | p | 15:32 |
| andre__ | well... what is that for I always wondered? | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | pointing it to moderators | 15:33 |
| DangerMaus | telling the mods to have a look at it | 15:34 |
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| andre__ | so i should send the talk threads 35953, 35925 to the moderators. hmm, okay. | 15:35 |
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| lardman | let me look | 15:37 |
| Venomrush | we more mods i reckon as community will growth dramatically over the coming months | 15:37 |
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| Venomrush | the n900 right now generating at least 20 30 new threads a day | 15:37 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 15:38 |
| fnordianslip | do we have a working powertop somewhere? | 15:38 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders that too | 15:38 | |
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| Stskeeps | fnordianslip: afaik | 15:38 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Report button is not for reporting threads you do not agree with | 15:38 |
| fnordianslip | Stskeeps: AFAUK, yes or no ? | 15:39 |
| lardman | andre__: they seem to have edited their posts? | 15:39 |
| * RST38h installed Fennec and suffered. | 15:39 | |
| lardman | ah no, but I will soon edit it | 15:39 |
| andre__ | no edits i think | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | fnordianslip: isn't it just in extras or SDK/tool | 15:40 |
| fnordianslip | hmm | 15:40 |
| andre__ | it's just dangerouns to send normal people to -devel without warning... but we all know that so i shut up now :) | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no, but if it's harmful posts in the wide perspective.. | 15:40 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Still, that is not the way to deal with them | 15:40 |
| RST38h | Putting a warning in huge letters on top of tmo main page may work better: | 15:41 |
| fnordianslip | Stskeeps: only repo i've not got enabled is devel, and apt-cache search doesn't find it | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: on the other hand i would like to see tmo return to sanity, which may need some policing as newcomers aren't as well behaved | 15:41 |
| RST38h | "Please, DO NOT enable Extras-Devel unless you are a developer who knows what he is doing. MaemoSDK is NOT an "N900 emulator" and cannot be used as such." | 15:42 |
| fnordianslip | is the package "powertop" or something else? | 15:42 |
| RST38h | Oh, add something about red-pill to the above statement | 15:42 |
| Venomrush | devel was where i got my haze plugin :p | 15:43 |
| Venomrush | if someone asks where u get msn + yahoo etc plugins? id say go to devel :p | 15:44 |
| Venomrush | and get haze | 15:44 |
| Venomrush | as for some apparently reason it's not in extras-testing yet | 15:44 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: tmo is not getting back to sanity, unless these newcomers simply go away. | 15:45 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: No amount of policing will fix that. So, your only hope is their tiny attention span. | 15:45 |
| fnordianslip | or help em all brick their devices so they just go away | 15:46 |
| v2px | eh.. hm. what is the moobox app? :S | 15:46 |
| lardman | andre__: let me know if you need/want more | 15:47 |
| RST38h | Oh. Shit. | 15:47 |
| RST38h | My laptop LCD is broken. | 15:47 |
| fnordianslip | Displays are for wimps | 15:47 |
| fnordianslip | ^pun | 15:47 |
| andre__ | lardman, thanks! | 15:47 |
| * RST38h wonders what he is gonna do now =( | 15:48 | |
| fnordianslip | ssh into it | 15:48 |
| fnordianslip | is it bleeding, cracked or just not on at all | 15:49 |
| RST38h | apparently cracked | 15:49 |
| DangerMaus | RST38h, that a new lappie? | 15:49 |
| RST38h | 1 year old | 15:49 |
| DangerMaus | oh | 15:49 |
| derf | Hopefully you got a 3 year warranty? | 15:50 |
| DangerMaus | pull out the 900 and ssh into it | 15:50 |
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| Myrtti | baa | 15:51 |
| RST38h | derf: I cannot locate the papers | 15:52 |
| RST38h | They are probably somewhere around though | 15:52 |
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| derf | As long as you have the serial #, they should be able to figure it out. | 15:53 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: sat on it? | 15:55 |
| * DangerMaus votes for sat on it | 15:56 | |
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| fnordianslip | ok the 3 minute silence for RST38h's laptop was up ages ago | 16:02 |
| arachnist | nothing like being able to walk over your own laptop | 16:03 |
| * arachnist a happy owner of a thinkpad x300 | 16:03 | |
| fnordianslip | get a toughbook | 16:03 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man17: how's progress on installer? | 16:05 |
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| arachnist | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FpD8wF1s6E | 16:06 |
| b-man17 | Stskeeps: working on the ununstallation mode | 16:06 |
| * SpeedEvil lost last two laptops to sat on and trod on. | 16:06 | |
| SpeedEvil | s/wo/hree/ | 16:06 |
| fnordianslip | arachnist: wtf? | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | b-man17: k, uninstallation is a bit hard but ok :P | 16:07 |
| * b-man17 is having a hell of a time trying to get esbox to work properly in ubuntu karmic xP | 16:07 | |
| DangerMaus | hehe SpeedEvil the only hting i ever did was drop a lappie down an esculator and fried the hdd | 16:07 |
| DangerMaus | and scratched it up | 16:08 |
| arachnist | fnordianslip: don't ask ;> | 16:08 |
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| fnordianslip | arachnist: which one were you? | 16:08 |
| DangerMaus | and managed to RMA the hdd | 16:08 |
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| cosmo_ | does maemo.org respond? | 16:09 |
| arachnist | fnordianslip: none | 16:09 |
| cosmo_ | i guess it's still running on a 770 | 16:09 |
| Myrtti | hilipampipam | 16:09 |
| cosmo_ | now it responded but is really slow | 16:10 |
| cosmo_ | how do i promote package to extras? the instructions in wiki are not valid: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel#Promoting_packages_to_extras-testing | 16:11 |
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| b-man17 | has anyone had this problem before? when i try to open a new python project in esbox i keep getting "org.maemo.esbox.python.project was unable to load class; org.maemo.esbox.internal.python.project.ui.wizard.ESboxPythonProjectWizard" can anyone help with this? | 16:15 |
| Lynoure | http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Getting_started_with_Qt_for_Maemo says "To avoiding such cases, we create our “.cpp” file in such direction or its sub-folders: /scratchbox/users/maemo/home/maemo/", however, my scratchbox does not have users/maemo, it has users/lynoureDoes that mean there is something wonky with my scratchbox install (used Nokia installer for that) or is that normal | 16:20 |
| Lynoure | that it uses my normal user for that? | 16:20 |
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| lardman | re | 16:22 |
| derf | Lynoure: That's normal AFAIK. | 16:22 |
| Lynoure | derf: thanks, I'll proceed then and won't worry about it for now :) | 16:23 |
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| JinoFixx | hi all | 16:25 |
| JinoFixx | maybe its not the right place but.. i've a n900 and want to add a msn account | 16:26 |
| JinoFixx | skype is there but i can't find msn | 16:26 |
| JinoFixx | sup | 16:27 |
| BluesLee | JinoFixx: not the right place, why? | 16:27 |
| derf | So why is Speex in non-free? | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | JinoFixx: talk.maemo.org, search for msn :) | 16:27 |
| JinoFixx | thanks Stskeeps | 16:29 |
| JinoFixx | hmm my terminal doesnt find apt-get | 16:29 |
| redeeman | JinoFixx: need root | 16:29 |
| JinoFixx | ah ok | 16:29 |
| JinoFixx | there is it | 16:29 |
| BluesLee | JinoFixx: install rootsh | 16:29 |
| JinoFixx | already did | 16:30 |
| BluesLee | where can i find drnoksnes? | 16:30 |
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| BluesLee | its not in the extra feeds anymore | 16:30 |
| odin_ | does the reflasher have a way or saving the current MMC data from device to PC-host ? | 16:31 |
| lardman | BluesLee: it's open source sw, you should be able to find the source and build it yourself | 16:31 |
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| frals | hmm.. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35976 ... "Why? You work in Nokia on the new firmware? I'm sorry, but what i listed is nothing special, but something the average non-geek user will expect. I'm not a normal user, but i don't request miracles, considering the firmware which the phone is being sold with is roughly already 5 weeks old." | 16:32 |
| BluesLee | lardman: i found it on talk.maemo.org thanks | 16:33 |
| JinoFixx | another thing | 16:33 |
| JinoFixx | installed and running openarena | 16:33 |
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| JinoFixx | how to quit it ? | 16:33 |
| JinoFixx | lol | 16:33 |
| BluesLee | JinoFixx: openarena? from which repo? | 16:33 |
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| BluesLee | cool stuff | 16:33 |
| JinoFixx | extra-devel | 16:34 |
| BluesLee | okay | 16:34 |
| frals | think ctrl backspace or smth should do it | 16:34 |
| jebba | JinoFixx: does the ctrl-backspace key get you to the taskdesktopthing? | 16:34 |
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| JinoFixx | no | 16:34 |
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| JinoFixx | lol | 16:35 |
| gn_ | hello everyone,is any work done on traveller applet? | 16:36 |
| JinoFixx | account plugin butterfly is safe? | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | JinoFixx: it has bugs and hence is in extras-devel. | 16:37 |
| JinoFixx | what kind of bugs | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | so it might eat your mother | 16:38 |
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| JinoFixx | lolz | 16:38 |
| lardman | gn_: what is it? | 16:40 |
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| LoCusF | any word on iNES on N900? | 16:43 |
| gn_ | lardman: the project ideas page(SOC) specifies improving the location based travellerapplet.. | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | LoCusF: there was a minor legal crisis | 16:44 |
| JinoFixx | msn account does not log in | 16:45 |
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| LoCusF | Stskeeps: I know but still :) | 16:45 |
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| lardman | gn_: oh right | 16:45 |
| lardman | gn_: not heard of it | 16:45 |
| gn_ | has anyone tried with that? | 16:46 |
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| PaulFertser | LOL: "Those fixing bugs don't know when Nokia will release firmware with the fixes." | 16:47 |
| lardman | well that's true I imagine | 16:47 |
| Shapeshifter | there's no urxvt package, right? | 16:47 |
| Shapeshifter | rxvt-unicode. | 16:47 |
| cehteh | no | 16:47 |
| Shapeshifter | any hints why it might be a bad idea making one? If not, I'll make one as soons as I get my n900. | 16:48 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: but that sounds so utterly nonsense to anyone who spent enough time in the free software world. | 16:48 |
| cehteh | Shapeshifter: without the urxvtd it might be bit memory intensive, otherwise i'd like it | 16:49 |
| Shapeshifter | well urxvtd would of course be part of it. It could be a nice solution for people who use everal terminals at all time. | 16:49 |
| PaulFertser | Another one: "New features are definitely nothing that developers are allowed to talk about" | 16:49 |
| cehteh | well try to compile/port it | 16:50 |
| cehteh | i'd prefer it, but i can live with xterm | 16:50 |
| Shapeshifter | cehteh: ah, rxvt-unicode compiles no problem for ARM. I'll do it when I have time | 16:50 |
| cehteh | as long it isnt gnome-terminal :P | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: if you want to try and change anything, come with constructive and weighted proposals | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | ridicuing nokia gets old :) | 16:50 |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: yeah, i know, just can't resist seeing so many weirdest stuff :( | 16:52 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: the constructive proposal is the one and still the same: being more open to the community. That's something discussed to death already but i see using e.g. public bugtracking is still optional for nokia devs, etc... Well, nokia's nokia, they still do not understand a thing about a proper community, trying to bend all the good ideas to suit their marketing needs :( | 16:54 |
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| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: i don't personally believe in community control of maemo. i do believe in a community distro of it where community decides, and a shared core where we cooperate on and we drag/merge fixes/features from eachother. | 16:56 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: if nokia didn't talk so much about the "community" and "open-source" there would be less expectations and hence less frustration. But nokia's playing a dirty game here they talk, they raise expectations, and then they do whatever their marketing decides. | 16:57 |
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| Stskeeps | and a distinct need to keep hardware out of anythng related to the platform SW :P | 16:58 |
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| Stskeeps | cos at the end of the day, business decisions is what will drive maemo. | 16:59 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: you told that. And that means that the whole "community" thing is a lie given the bigger picture. That's what bothers me most in this maemo thing... | 17:00 |
| odin_ | "Operation disabled due to low memory" is that something to be concerned about ? I have just RSS reader open and it was trying to open a browser window from it | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: that said, on the shared platform things are really opening up. community has been about apps -on top of maemo- | 17:02 |
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| JinoFixx | rdate can be installed? | 17:03 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: haha, it's not the community thing. Because then nokia changes the low-level API and voila, all your apps are obsolete and need rewriting in qt pseudo-language. ;) | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: and that there hasn't been sufficient community interest/collaboration spaces/etc for system development. it's first recently it's started to be more of an issue | 17:04 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: community apps on top of maemo is no different to symbian or j2me apps. | 17:04 |
| odin_ | PaulFertser, whats the issue ? its still X11 underneath | 17:04 |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: (sufficient interest) given the nokia attitude and urge to control it's no wonder :| | 17:05 |
| odin_ | PaulFertser, Nokia are "opening the door" for a chinese firm to copy to basic hardware model, chinese are good a copying they are not very good at coming up with ideas | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: nah.. it's a bit of that community has no way of strongarming | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | and that we are a lazy community | 17:06 |
| PaulFertser | odin_: hm, integration? X is everywhere anyway, but you need a system-level, toolkit-level and other-level integration for many nice things to have. | 17:06 |
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| Stskeeps | expecting nokia to fix things instead of trying to work with other people in commnity to fix them | 17:06 |
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| Stskeeps | that's why i'm so tired of endless discussions and flames. | 17:06 |
| jebba | Shapeshifter: if you use rxvt-unicode to ssh into your n900, i recommend you also do something like `echo "export TERM=xterm-color" >> ~/.profile` to get things working well. | 17:06 |
| odin_ | PaulFertser, but Qt is open-source, some chinaman will make similar hardware soon enough, and they do understand the really-big-picture | 17:06 |
| Shapeshifter | jebba: yep | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: but instead of loking at open source, it's more important to look at governancne. | 17:07 |
| odin_ | at the moment I'm trying to fix my root partition before it runs out of space, will that cause the error "Operatoin disable due to low memory" ? | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | governance. | 17:07 |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: having more stuff motivates more people to participate. And when you're faced with nasty bme, non-standard ways of monitoring battery and other stuff like that you suddenly became much less motivated. That was up to nokia to form a real community around but they didn't need it. | 17:07 |
| odin_ | what is needed now is more hardware devices like mameo platforms but from other manufacurers | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: blah blah. DSME was requested for years and noone did anytihng about it when it -was- open sourced. | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | same with the wifi driver | 17:08 |
| type_t | Stskeeps . the learning curve is too long.. | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | if you want something open sourced you have to treat it like someone giving their newborn baby into your arms, receive it with grace, nuture it and raise it well | 17:09 |
| kuskq | so i installed supertux. but after i have chosen level and the map is loaded i cant get any further? | 17:09 |
| odin_ | and I think these devices will come now, people (from the far east) will see the problems with going the iphone or android routes | 17:09 |
| jebba | geez. I don't know why you are dissing nokia so much. So some devs use their internal bugzilla. They probably do that cuz they've been doing it that way for 10 years and are all set up. But it's still damn open. Show me any huge company that is more open. I mean the freakin bugmaster is lurking this channel for god's sake. And nokia responds directly (and *quickly*) to bug reports. | 17:10 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: (opensource) hm, no? You just release the code from the very beginning and that's it. | 17:10 |
| odin_ | those people just want to make and sell devices (not software or firmware, thats just a cost to them) | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: why bothering to open source when it will just gather dust? | 17:10 |
| odin_ | what is DSME ? | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: legal checks are not cheap. | 17:10 |
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| jebba | nokia *does* already have a "real" community too. What is this room? It's the size of #fedora and over half the size of #debian even. There's a billion posts in talk.m.o. Thousands of reports in bugzilla. etc..... | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: :nod: | 17:11 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: it won't. I'm sure if nokia's released all necessary stuff to use n8x0 in a sane way from the beginning, they'd attract a much more clueful and powerful community. But they lost the momentum, so people moved to the beagleboard etc. | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: and the result of that is stuff like the touch book.. nothing truely impressive | 17:11 |
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| odin_ | PaulFertser, the only device I wanted was the N900 to me the N8xx product do not fit any market I know of | 17:12 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: beagleboard is impressive | 17:12 |
| jebba | people moved to the beagelboard?? haaha | 17:12 |
| jebba | uh huh. BB is cool, but n900 is gogin to have 100x size of beagle community.... | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: most beagle work is still done by professionals | 17:12 |
| PaulFertser | jebba: yes, clueful devs prefer to work on beagleboard. | 17:12 |
| jebba | plus you can't even get beagle board... | 17:12 |
| jebba | whatever | 17:12 |
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| jebba | totally different purpose than n900 anyway. | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: anyway, how about less talking and more hacking? | 17:13 |
| * RST38h moos mournfully | 17:13 | |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: did you talk to the android kernel guy? | 17:13 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: talking is easier and more satisfying =) | 17:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | huh. | 17:13 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: exactly | 17:13 |
| Shapeshifter | beagleboard looks cool | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: sigh | 17:13 |
| odin_ | can you flash the Nokia image to a beagleboard ? | 17:14 |
| jebba | beagleboard is cool. Just cant get it. Easier to get an n900.... | 17:14 |
| type_t | ok lets Talk and Hack at the same time.. | 17:14 |
| odin_ | or is it only useful for the kernel work ? | 17:14 |
| odin_ | I'm getting there folks.. only had the device a week now... still working through simple issues :) | 17:14 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: not yet :( | 17:15 |
| RST38h | Come back when you do =) | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: http://omappedia.org/wiki/Maemo_on_OMAP_Project | 17:15 |
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| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: right, - i personally don't want to hear another rant until you show you're for a working community instead of a moaning and ranting community :) | 17:16 |
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| Stskeeps | then you have real issues to rant about | 17:16 |
| PaulFertser | Ok | 17:16 |
| RST38h | "Mental-health workers sent to Afghanistan weeks after losing five of their own in Ft. Hood shootings." <=== nothing like WashPost to entertain my at the time of gloom =) | 17:16 |
| RST38h | s/my/me | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | BME is closed, that's how reality is right now. does this top you doing anything specifically technically? if yes, let's work towards fixing tthose. | 17:17 |
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| Stskeeps | stop/stop/ | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | ... | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:17 |
| * Stskeeps wonders if karmic is dropping characters from his keyboard | 17:17 | |
| fredrin | i can has rant? | 17:18 |
| Shapeshifter | lol but "laptop like performance" is a bit of an overstatement regarding the beagleboard | 17:18 |
| Shapeshifter | 10-years-old laptop like performance maybe. | 17:18 |
| odin_ | whats so interesting about BME anyway ? (Battery Monitor something?) | 17:18 |
| fredrin | wtf is beagleboard? | 17:18 |
| fredrin | can you show it off to girls and pick the up? | 17:18 |
| type_t | good job.. | 17:18 |
| Shapeshifter | fredrin: google. | 17:18 |
| Shapeshifter | fredrin: possibly | 17:18 |
| Shapeshifter | if you put it in a golden purse | 17:19 |
| Shapeshifter | or something | 17:19 |
| andre__ | beagleboards are not attractive per se. we've got one in the office | 17:19 |
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| andre__ | http://www.openismus.com/documents/linux/embedded/beagleboard_getting_started.shtml | 17:19 |
| odin_ | beagleboard it looks to be a PCB with a mini-computer on it, based around ARM and stuff... I can see it useful for kernel development but not much else (as its missing the actual hardware the N900 provides) | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: it's a torn in the eye of people who are religiously only into open source. it's the battery charging daemon. nokia have said they don't mind distribution of nokia software to nokia devices, so there's no blocker for them to use it in their alternative OS'es | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: so it's really more of a religious issue | 17:20 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, wow a daemon that can charge my batteries ... not need to plug it in anymore ?? ha ha ha | 17:20 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: OK, that -handles- battery charging/management :P | 17:20 |
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| suihkulokki | before it was bme and wifi driver being closed | 17:21 |
| suihkulokki | now wifi is open | 17:21 |
| andre__ | the ranting crowd just moves on... :-P | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. :P | 17:21 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, I have no problem with "binary blobs freely distributed" providing they are 1) Regularly maintained, fatal/serious bugfixes can propagate in days 2) they have an open API which is supported and documented | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: http://omapzoom.org/platform.html is an interesting altrenative | 17:21 |
| Shapeshifter | I think it can even play some h.264 | 17:22 |
| suihkulokki | but, wifi being open didn't cause a surge of hackers hacking the wifi driver forward | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: i agree, but not so much about days. i can't even promise days in open source :P | 17:22 |
| suihkulokki | so why did so many people want it open sourced, if they had no intention to modify the code once it was opened? | 17:22 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, there is just the issue of, I want to upgrade my kernel, how do I relink your blob to it to address, i.e. the blob should not hold back kernel releases for the agreed lifecycle of it | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: oh, kernel blobs i hate completely. this is a userland blob. | 17:23 |
| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: to be able to recompile it in a clean way for any distro? To be able to implement kernel-level battery monitoring as per power_supply specs? | 17:23 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, ah but when its open source you can fix it yourself if its really a problem, sure lots of open source has fixes in days | 17:23 |
| * RST38h sighs | 17:24 | |
| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: and to have a possibility to fix any problems when you actually face them? | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: why the need to recompile it? why he need to put it in kernel-level? :) | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | it works. as it should. | 17:24 |
| jebba | i completely agree the BME etc should be free software. Get real. And the flasher too. I mean WTF? But i doubt it's going to get opened this way. | 17:24 |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: recompile to use the libraries you want to use atm. And kernel-level power_supply api is a well-established interface used everywhere except n8x0. | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: there was actually a discussion of opening the flasher and asking for technical reasons but noone could really come up with that many.. | 17:25 |
| andre__ | jebba, good technical instead of religious arguments are more convincing to those people deciding about it... | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | so the discussion kinda died again | 17:25 |
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| lardman | PaulFertser: sorry for the late reply, but really you need to try to understand that Nokia are a company, not an open source project | 17:26 |
| jebba | Stskeeps: clearly should be opened though. You should at least concede that... I mean, why not close off everything then? Cuz you want to leverage the community. For example, perhaps PaulFertser will spend 5 days watching BME and running powertop or something. He will try different builds etc.... | 17:26 |
| andre__ | well, it was offered to opensource the flasher. but basically not many people were interested. plus there's been the 0xffffff project already | 17:26 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: then they shouldn't talk so much about the community and openness when in fact they want to control everything instead of collaborating with hackers. | 17:26 |
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| andre__ | jebba, http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages | 17:26 |
| * w00t dons the asbestos underwear and grabs the popcorn | 17:26 | |
| andre__ | PaulFertser, do they talk so much about it? | 17:27 |
| andre__ | maybe we have different receptions | 17:27 |
| PaulFertser | andre__ [n=andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre] | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: they would probably be more open if they didn't have to constantly argue :) | 17:27 |
| andre__ | hehe | 17:27 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: lol | 17:27 |
| * Stskeeps goes back to doing real openness work. | 17:27 | |
| * andre__ off to fix the holes in his pockets. literally. | 17:28 | |
| w00t | dammit | 17:28 |
| jebba | Connected to Asterisk 1.4.27.1-1 currently running on Nokia-N900-42-11 (pid = 3016) | 17:28 |
| w00t | when i get my popcorn and settle down for entertainment, everyone goes way :( | 17:28 |
| w00t | *away | 17:28 |
| lardman | PaulFertser: life is not black and white | 17:28 |
| jebba | it's pink and green | 17:29 |
| PaulFertser | andre__: compare nokia's tablets with motorola "linux-based" phones. You'll see the difference. Nokia raises expectations and then gets everything done as would a typical company do. | 17:29 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, the BME issue is one of lion batterys blowing up, causing injury possible death, so its understandable why its not open source | 17:29 |
| jebba | PaulFertser: where's motorola's channel with lead developers and their bugmaster? | 17:29 |
| PaulFertser | odin_: ok, tell me how to make my nokia bl-5C go off, i'll do an experiment. | 17:29 |
| lardman | PaulFertser: you sound like a zeolot | 17:29 |
| andre__ | PaulFertser, I won't google for motorola now, nope. | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: you have the freedom to do so even without BME. | 17:30 |
| andre__ | vague argument, based on reception... | 17:30 |
| PaulFertser | jebba: that's what i'm talking about, there's community, bugtracker, some open-source apps, etc. But it's still closed as hell. | 17:30 |
| jebba | what happens if you don't run the BME anyway? | 17:30 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: The safety stuff is internal to the battery - at least in the case of explosions. You can make battery longevity poorer | 17:30 |
| jebba | "closed as hell" is quite an overstatement. | 17:30 |
| lardman | PaulFertser: no it's not | 17:30 |
| lardman | PaulFertser: you really haven't been paying attention | 17:30 |
| PaulFertser | jebba: i think the device would probably shut off due to some mystic watchdog. At least that's what i got with n810 and debian in 65 seconds. | 17:30 |
| lardman | do you have a device? | 17:30 |
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| lardman | have you setup the SDK? | 17:30 |
| jebba | anyway, i'm gonna muck with asterisk see if i can do a cleaner 1.6 or perhaps rebuild a kernel for kicks (though I too will barf on the binary blobs in kernel waaaaah) | 17:31 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: my friend has n810. I've used my usual arm toolchain for the kernel compilation. And debian an arm already has gcc etc to compile apps natively (with distcc help it's even not that slow). | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | jebba: N900? no binary blobs | 17:31 |
| lardman | PaulFertser: the watchdog having been placed there to stop people running anything other than Nokia's closed os? ;D | 17:31 |
| jebba | ah really. i thought it had some blobs in kernel too. nice to hear. :) | 17:31 |
| jebba | so 2.6.32 etc should work with some patches, eh? | 17:32 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: not really, but lacking docs and everything i couldn't understand how to run n810 bme-free. | 17:32 |
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| jebba | PaulFertser: not to feed you too much, but what distro you run? | 17:32 |
| lardman | bme is not the same as the watchdog you understand | 17:33 |
| PaulFertser | jebba: on n810? | 17:33 |
| odin_ | the kernel can be recompile tho can't it ? if you want you can recompile the kernel that is shipped, you will however need to relink the binary blobs into it (or load as compatible modules), that is my understanding of N900, I have yet to test this theory out | 17:33 |
| lardman | so you could keep the watchdog fn and use a kicker still | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: there are no closed kernel modules in n900 | 17:33 |
| w00t | odin_: there *are* no kernel blobs | 17:33 |
| jebba | PaulFertser: on yer laptop/workstation (and n810 fwiw) | 17:33 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: i understand but somehow they related. n810 has several watchdogs none of which is properly documented. Apparently, 2.6.30 kernel from the omap branch doesn't include the support for one of them. And no, flasher can't disable it. | 17:33 |
| odin_ | odin_, so the closed stuff is all in user-space ? | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: right | 17:34 |
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| lardman | PaulFertser: well the fact that 2.6.30 doesn't support it isn't Nokia's fault | 17:34 |
| PaulFertser | jebba: i run gentoo, debian and some hardcore-way upgraded system based on rh9. | 17:34 |
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| jebba | where you get your kernel source? | 17:34 |
| odin_ | does this closed-stuff access hardware directly ? or does it do it via a standard kernel API, an api that allows userspace controlled access to hardware busses, like USB etc... | 17:34 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: Hm, no? Proper manufacturers get their patches upstream on time. And no docs probably is a serious fault too. | 17:35 |
| PaulFertser | jebba: kernel.org | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: then why isn't beagleboard in upstream? :P | 17:35 |
| odin_ | for example the X11 servers have traditionally been the only Linux application that accesses hardware directly from user-space | 17:35 |
| jebba | bah! those bums have tons of non-free software in their kernels. | 17:35 |
| lardman | ok, so perhaps Nokia aren't a proper manufacturer, but this is a different argument isn't it | 17:35 |
| lardman | sound like general dissatisfaction with Nokia for whatever reason, try to find justifications without thinking why things might be the way they are | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: afaik it accesses them through /dev and such | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | and ioctls | 17:36 |
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| PaulFertser | lardman: general dissatisfaction, exactly. I so much wanted a decent device but now seeing n810 which runs ancient kernel and some essential blob stuff, and watching how n900 goes along... Yes, i'm frustrated. Being involved in openmoko community for more than a year nokia's "comminity" feels like a distasteful joke to me. | 17:37 |
| MNX1024 | Can someone tell me what is the lock code for the N900? | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | MNX1024: 12345 is usual | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: why aren't you getting a q5/q7 or the likes then? :P | 17:38 |
| * w00t was thinking that | 17:38 | |
| lardman | PaulFertser: and now you're just calling people like me names? What's wrong with the community? | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: nothing - it's the integration with the closed side. | 17:39 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: you seem to not be able to influence nokia enough. | 17:39 |
| jebba | ok. he's on the list. | 17:39 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, then that is fine then, where as X11 memory-maps graphics cards and reads/writes data which causes IO read/writes on bus | 17:39 |
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| andre__ | PaulFertser, I think we should all become the presidents of Nokia. That should make it a bit easier to influence Nokia. I'm sorry that the community has not taken over completely yet. | 17:41 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: btw, openmoko community sucks too: too many clueless people in there with unreasonable expectations and inappropriate skills. But the core of the openmoko community is really qualified and sane. | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: and slowly drifting away, too | 17:42 |
| andre__ | Re Openmoko: so, help them if you know how to do better :) | 17:42 |
| Stskeeps | and to say maemo.org is not qualified or sane is rather impolite | 17:42 |
| Jaffa | Af'noon all | 17:42 |
| andre__ | that's what open source is about: getting involved. | 17:42 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: sorry, i was never good at manners :( | 17:42 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa, popcorn? | 17:43 |
| lardman | well you're good and not being good at manners, I'll give you that | 17:43 |
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| Shapeshifter | PaulFertser: I get the feeling that nothing you say makes any real difference or has any point in being said. sorry :| | 17:43 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: also i'm rather low-level focused so i can't properly evaluate your high-level achievements. | 17:43 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Yeah, connect and see PaulFertser involved in a closed-source argument. | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: nah, at the moment it's about community influence | 17:43 |
| lardman | PaulFertser: what is your low level focus out of interest? | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Where can I set the regulatory domain? | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Of the wifi | 17:44 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: bootloader, kernel, hardware. | 17:44 |
| lardman | and our work on those is poor I presume? | 17:44 |
| flux | hmh, how come route add -host ipaddress gw anotheripaddress says route: SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable, although pinging anotheripaddress works just fine? | 17:45 |
| w00t | Jaffa: you arrived just in time then :-) | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: 'Maemo Community is an open source community developing software around the Maemo platform. | 17:45 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Ah, good | 17:45 |
| PaulFertser | lardman: i've seen none so far tbh. I've read one page about upstreaming n8x0 kernels on the wiki, done mostly by one volunteer. | 17:45 |
| flux | I'm trying to setup a vpn to make my ssh connections more persistent in the presense of roaming wlan/3g.. | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: technically, we don't deal with hw, but some of us do | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: that was a nokia employee, fwiw | 17:45 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: i know | 17:45 |
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| jebba | it seems /ignore doesn't work with freenode. "unknown command" odd. /me fed enough... | 17:46 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: as i've said before: i can't see any difference between the symbian community and maemo community, they both fully depend on upstream vendor. | 17:46 |
| PaulFertser | jebba: ignore is client-side | 17:47 |
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| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: my mind still boggles how buggy the hw on freerunner was even if it had very skilled hackers and hw people attached | 17:47 |
| lardman | ~curse Goertzel | 17:47 |
| odin_ | PaulFertser, but as I said before, now Nokia have a good blue print other vendors will create MIPS based Linux portable devices which are compatible | 17:47 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Goertzel ! | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | the same with the user interface | 17:47 |
| derf | Jaffa: Do you know who I talk to to find out why Speex is in non-free? | 17:47 |
| w00t | lardman: ouch | 17:47 |
| PaulFertser | odin_: nice news | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | derf: let me look | 17:48 |
| Jaffa | PaulFertser: Who is saying that Maemo doesn't depend on Nokia? And, comparitively, what community we should be in instead? | 17:48 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: unfortunately, openmoko-the-company had enough of really clueless stupid TPE engineers involved. | 17:48 |
| jebba | I see how to ignore a user, but how do you ignore messages directed at a user? (pidgin in this case) | 17:48 |
| Jaffa | derf: There's a process, which Stskeeps would know better than me, as to request why something is closed and what barriers prevent it from being opened. In this case, I'd guess licensing? | 17:48 |
| PaulFertser | Jaffa: i'd be happy to see Debian (and even ubuntu) properly supported on portable devices. | 17:48 |
| derf | Speex is BSD. | 17:49 |
| derf | (I'm from Xiph.Org, by the way) | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | derf: if it's bsd it can technically be binary-only :P | 17:49 |
| Jaffa | derf: Ah. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | jebba: you can't | 17:49 |
| Jaffa | PaulFertser: Supported by whom? | 17:49 |
| derf | Stskeeps: Yes, I'm not saying it's _illegal_ to have it in non-free. | 17:49 |
| PaulFertser | Jaffa: by the vendor helping the community. | 17:49 |
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| Jaffa | PaulFertser: And what are you doing to make it happen? And what does ranting in here do to bring it about? | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | derf: yeah, i know | 17:50 |
| w00t | PaulFertser: what community? | 17:50 |
| derf | But it's one of the only free codecs on the DSP, and I was hoping to crib off of it to add more. | 17:50 |
| derf | Except I can't get the package source. | 17:50 |
| Jaffa | I'm not sure anyone is going to argue against "let's have a properly supported full OSS OS on portable devices". People may argue about the practicability and business sense therein, though | 17:50 |
| Jaffa | derf: Ah. Ask on maemo-developers? | 17:50 |
| PaulFertser | w00t: debian/ubuntu/gnome mobile/shr/whatever. But not the other way round when vendor comes up with something and says: we give you hardware and core api, no do the cool apps for our great device. | 17:50 |
| derf | I don't actually need the source for Speex... the stuff I care about is the configuration needed to get it built and deployed on the device. | 17:50 |
| w00t | PaulFertser: the "whatever" is the problem there | 17:51 |
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| lardman | derf: the omap bridge stuff has build files iirc | 17:51 |
| lardman | and examples | 17:52 |
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| w00t | PaulFertser: naming names won't make it happen, the community starts with you | 17:52 |
| RST38h | He is STILL ranting? Umgh. | 17:52 |
| PaulFertser | Jaffa: i'm trying to help the openmoko project, that's my favourite so i concentrate my humble abilities on that. In here i'm trying to understand the n8x0 and related stuff better. | 17:52 |
| w00t | PaulFertser: a vendor isn't just going to do things for a "community" that doesn't yet exist | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | derf: i can't see any good reason why it should be closed | 17:52 |
| derf | lardman: Where is that? | 17:52 |
| RST38h | This isn't #openmoko though... | 17:52 |
| PaulFertser | w00t: proper distros already exist, so i'd expect vendor to help the distro community to make a port. Same stuff as with the kernel. Vendor shouldn't fork the kernel, rather collaborate with upstream to get it supported officially from the start. | 17:53 |
| * w00t gets bored with this | 17:53 | |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: most of -omap wasn't in upstream and still isn't | 17:53 |
| lardman | derf: http://omappedia.org/wiki/DSPBridge_Project ? | 17:53 |
| jebba | can we get a #maemo-devel channel? | 17:53 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: it's really feeling like this is going around in circles at this point | 17:54 |
| derf | lardman: Thanks. | 17:54 |
| jebba | anything of any quality is getting lost in the noise | 17:54 |
| lardman | np, let me know if it works as I've not tried it yet | 17:54 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: yes, but it's going forward. And there's a proper mailing list and git repo etc. One can actually track the development and take part in. | 17:54 |
| andre__ | jebba: just do it. i also go to #maemo-bugs and I'm the only person so far :-P | 17:54 |
| derf | Stskeeps: My best guess is that "free" stuff goes through the autobuilder, and the autobuilder isn't set up to build DSP things? | 17:54 |
| derf | But that's just speculation. | 17:54 |
| * PaulFertser 's away, sorry for disturbing you folks | 17:54 | |
| Myrtti | knitting ♥ perhaps at Christmas time I get to knit a pouch for my N800 | 17:54 |
| RST38h | derf: Just commit to non-free then | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | derf: no, nokia is fine with publishing sources for uncompilable stuff.. | 17:54 |
| Jaffa | #maemo-devel is nice and peaceful | 17:55 |
| RST38h | derf: It works, at least as a temporary measure | 17:55 |
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| derf | RST38h: Yes, that's fine when _I_ have something to commit. | 17:55 |
| derf | But it doesn't get me an example to crib off of! | 17:55 |
| RST38h | hehehm | 17:55 |
| derf | Stskeeps: Hah! | 17:55 |
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| type_t | crib off of ..? are you in a Crib? o0 | 17:56 |
| odin_ | Ive looked over the beagleboard info, and I can't immediately see the benifit to using it (to develop user-space apps), I can certainly understand kernel development benfits | 17:56 |
| derf | odin_: Well, it's probably not a large benefit over a real N900. But until very recently those didn't exist. | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | derf: i'll put it on my list for discovering what it's about. it's in OSSW, has a bsd license in copyright | 17:57 |
| type_t | odin_ << understands .. there is hope.. | 17:57 |
| derf | Stskeeps: Thanks. | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | derf: did you check if it's in m.g.o multimedia? | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | derf: one issue i could see would be that the guy who wrote the patches has left the company | 17:58 |
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| RST38h | Looks like N900 wants a reboot again | 17:58 |
| derf | Stskeeps: It doesn't appear to be. | 17:59 |
| RST38h | 7 days uptime, got really slow and ICQ no longer connects | 17:59 |
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| derf | 7 days?! | 17:59 |
| derf | I can bork the thing in like 7 minutes. | 17:59 |
| RST38h | Last time it was 9 | 17:59 |
| RST38h | Well, mine does not get borked right away | 18:00 |
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| w00t | derf: we broke one within 3 hours of getting it out of the box, though a reflash fixed it :P | 18:00 |
| derf | It _really_ did not seem to like the FM radio. | 18:00 |
| * RST38h wonders if he has to uninstall Pidgin | 18:00 | |
| RST38h | No idea what else may be affecting this | 18:01 |
| derf | And seemed none to happy about BT GPS, either. | 18:01 |
| derf | *too | 18:01 |
| odin_ | I have this yellow bar error/warning: "Operation disabled due to low memory" is this due to memory or disk space? rootfs is pretty full, only 8Mb free | 18:01 |
| RST38h | probably disk | 18:01 |
| odin_ | I only have RSS reader open, error is when it tried to open browser | 18:01 |
| jebba | though 8M is "enough" too hmm | 18:01 |
| lardman | that's a rubbish warning if it means disk space | 18:01 |
| * RST38h wonders if Miranda can connect. Yes, it can. | 18:02 | |
| odin_ | memory says it only 350MB into swap | 18:02 |
| JinoFixx | i installed http analyzer for maemo firefox 3.5 but the windows isnt appearing | 18:03 |
| JinoFixx | ghgh | 18:03 |
| JinoFixx | *window | 18:03 |
| RST38h | ahhahaha | 18:03 |
| RST38h | IT BROKE ITSELF | 18:03 |
| odin_ | so what is using up rootfs space to open browser? what is the best way to tackle my recent extra-devel installs ? I have a list of the packages... also over 25Mb is in use on the rootfs by the package manager alone? should I submit a but report, thats like 5% of total diskspace | 18:03 |
| RST38h | Changed ICQ server port to -2487364832 | 18:04 |
| derf | It really should link the package archives to /opt (I just linked mine manually). | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | derf: could you do me a favour and submit a bug report and CC carsten.munk@gmail.com on it? | 18:04 |
| odin_ | # du -s /var/lib/dpkg => "25464 /var/lib/dpkg" | 18:04 |
| derf | Stskeeps: Sure thing. | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | derf: cos it seems a weird weird to be stuck in non-free | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | weird thing, that is | 18:04 |
| JinoFixx | when they will open the ovi maemo store? | 18:05 |
| Myrtti | on a day that ends with k | 18:05 |
| odin_ | shouldn't all of /var be in /home/opt/maemo/var ?? | 18:05 |
| JinoFixx | the sdk for developers is ready ? | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | derf: and add contents of changelog.gz (ungzipped) from .deb that diverts from the debian packaging | 18:06 |
| Shapeshifter | In the n900 under the battery cover, with the camera on the right side, there's a rather large plastig piece to the left of the battery. What is that good for? | 18:06 |
| Shapeshifter | Seems like a waste of precious space. | 18:06 |
| odin_ | anyone know if its safe to move /var/lib/dpkg to /home/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg and symlink the dir ? i.e. there is going to be no file renaming cross-device problems ? | 18:06 |
| lardman | check that /var isn't already on that mount point | 18:07 |
| odin_ | its not, "df /var" and "df /var/lib/dpkg" both report "/" | 18:08 |
| MNX1024 | May someone kindly direct me to a list of N900 short cuts? | 18:08 |
| RST38h | BTW, does Fennec work for anyone here? | 18:09 |
| RST38h | For me, Fennec is too slow | 18:09 |
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| odin_ | ~shortcuts | 18:09 |
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| MNX1024 | RST38H: on what device? | 18:10 |
| odin_ | s/shortcuts/test/ | 18:10 |
| infobot | odin_ meant: ~test | 18:10 |
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| RST38h | n900 | 18:10 |
| jebba | what is .cleancount in a debian build? | 18:10 |
| odin_ | infobot shortcuts is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures | 18:10 |
| infobot | odin_: okay | 18:10 |
| bitcrusher | MNX1024: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures | 18:10 |
| odin_ | infobot gestures is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures | 18:10 |
| infobot | ...but gestures is already something else... | 18:10 |
| bitcrusher | odin_: damn, you beat me to it ;) | 18:10 |
| jebba | ah, may be asterisk specific | 18:10 |
| * odin_ puts finger up at infobot | 18:10 | |
| MNX1024 | RST38H: It works for me. The only thing that caused it to crash is gmail, for what ever odd reason, I don't know. | 18:10 |
| Myrtti | oh $DEITY, help! I've got Rainbow - I surrender stuck in my head... | 18:10 |
| MNX1024 | Thanks a lot odin | 18:10 |
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| RST38h | Can't scroll properly in Fennec - it always gets stuck =( | 18:11 |
| MNX1024 | You sure your device is not on full load by any chance while using it? | 18:12 |
| RST38h | It is always at full load, with Fennec sucking 100% CPU | 18:13 |
| aquatix | :) | 18:13 |
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| MNX1024 | Well, can't tell you much more. I uninstalled fennec on my N900 because I don't really use it. | 18:15 |
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| type_t | http://elinux.org/User_Interfaces#Application_Frameworks Hildon (Maemo) http://elinux.org/User_Interfaces#Hildon_.28Maemo.29 fits in "UltraMobile High End Computers" | 18:15 |
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| MNX1024 | Especially the fact that I can't get on gmail with it doesn't cut it for me. | 18:15 |
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| * aquatix wonders how to get Tear to be `default browser' on his n810, so that things like Mauku open links in Tear instead of in microb | 18:17 | |
| MNX1024 | I just want to know something. I have gstreamer installed. I've just reseted my phone's setting, does that get uninstall? | 18:17 |
| jeremiah | MNX1024: I doubt that resetting your "phone's setting" will remove gstreamer. | 18:19 |
| jeremiah | But it may depend one what setting it was. | 18:19 |
| Klowner_ | Nokia just FINALLY NOW sent an email saying they received my busted N900 | 18:19 |
| Klowner_ | they've had it since wednesday | 18:19 |
| MNX1024 | Ok, thanks for the info. | 18:20 |
| Klowner_ | "We are not able to refund your original delivery charges", they better not frickin' charge for delivery of the replacement or I'll hunt them down | 18:21 |
| * Myrtti gets the popcorn | 18:22 | |
| derf | Stskeeps: bug 6604 | 18:22 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6604 Source for libspeex, libspeexdsp unavailable | 18:22 |
| MNX1024 | I have another issue that seem to pop up since the night before yesterday. For some reason when I'm connected to connection, it would disconnect 2-5 minutes later. After that, I can't reconnect unless I restart the device. | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | derf: thanks | 18:22 |
| derf | Yer welcome. | 18:22 |
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| MNX1024 | By the way, I'm using T-Mobile US. | 18:23 |
| Myrtti | what this channel desperately needs is a disclaimer of "we regret to inform that we can help you mainly with your issues with community supplied software, not with hardware related (shipping, quarantee, soldering etc.) problems..." :-P | 18:25 |
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| Klowner_ | quarantee? | 18:26 |
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| MNX1024 | So, anyone having the same issue as me? | 18:26 |
| Myrtti | Klowner_: warranty | 18:26 |
| andre__ | MNX1024: tried disabling power saving mode completely? | 18:27 |
| andre__ | (if this is about wifi) | 18:27 |
| mtnbkr | is there an official site/page where I can see achangelog of what is/will be new/fixed in a future update of Maemo on N900? | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: I was surprised to get a lot of space back on a reboot | 18:28 |
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| Mdevess | i | 18:28 |
| Mdevess | Hi | 18:28 |
| andre__ | mtnbkr, future? no. only for releases that are out already | 18:28 |
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| MNX1024 | It's not wifi, it's my 3G connection. | 18:28 |
| Klowner_ | Myrtti: I assume that comment was directed at me? | 18:28 |
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| odin_ | I am moving /var/lib/dpkg to /home/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg now | 18:29 |
| ccooke | Hmm | 18:29 |
| Mdevess | anyone has problems update repositories ? | 18:29 |
| andre__ | mtnbkr, but you can query bugs.maemo.org for reports with target milestone "5.0+" set | 18:29 |
| ccooke | Anyone know much about packaging firefox extensions for microb? | 18:29 |
| andre__ | Mdevess, means? | 18:29 |
| mtnbkr | andre__: Hmm would really love to know when/if 802.1x with TTLS/PAP will be avail. ;( | 18:29 |
| Mdevess | scratchbox doesn't update | 18:29 |
| andre__ | mtnbkr, bug URL? | 18:29 |
| * ccooke is having trouble finding the exact details | 18:29 | |
| mtnbkr | andre__: thanks I'll check that out | 18:29 |
| Mdevess | the packages :S | 18:29 |
| andre__ | mtnbkr, well, sounds more like a feature request. and those are not announcement at all. | 18:29 |
| Mdevess | 0% [Connecting to repository.maemo.org] | 18:29 |
| Mdevess | i have the correct dns/internet connection | 18:30 |
| ccooke | ah, found it! | 18:30 |
| mtnbkr | andre__: heh is there a wishlist page somewhere? :) | 18:30 |
| dmj7261 | bilboed-tp: GAN900: how was the video editing session? | 18:30 |
| Myrtti | Klowner_: no, I've been here for couple of years on and off and it's always needed it, since there's very limited amount of help we can offer with the actual device | 18:30 |
| odin_ | SpeedEvil, is that the bug/problem then ? no automatic/background compactor/reclaimer ? | 18:30 |
| andre__ | mtnbkr, well, for application-specific requests there is bugs.maemo.org | 18:30 |
| andre__ | mtnbkr, for more general ideas there is maemo brainstorm | 18:30 |
| Mdevess | Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org' | 18:30 |
| Myrtti | software being totally different issue, of course | 18:30 |
| odin_ | SpeedEvil, or do programs have unlinked files open? | 18:31 |
| * RST38h sent an "I am not worthy!" email to Clive Crous | 18:31 | |
| RST38h | Maybe he can give some directions on compiling Vulture's Eye... | 18:31 |
| mtnbkr | andre__: OK Cools thanks... I already have a bugs.maemo.org account so that works for me. Also, it looks like there is already a bug/feature request for EAP + TTLS + PAP :) https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1635 | 18:32 |
| povbot` | Bug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth | 18:32 |
| andre__ | mtnbkr, feel free to vote for it | 18:32 |
| mtnbkr | povbot`: yep, just found that. Thanks | 18:32 |
| povbot` | mtnbkr: Error: "yep," is not a valid command. | 18:32 |
| mtnbkr | andre__: Thanks for the help. | 18:33 |
| odin_ | is there any point in doing a fuller Linux distro for N900 ? i.e. one where people don't mind a bit more space used for regular gnu tools (and no busy box) ? | 18:33 |
| Mdevess | solved now :-) | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: not really. Mer exists. | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | i need to finish up the port sometime | 18:33 |
| odin_ | I'm just trying to set my "personal software goals" | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: mer has a full gnu userspace | 18:34 |
| odin_ | ~mer | 18:34 |
| infobot | mer is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer | 18:34 |
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| bilboed-tp | dmj7261, good investigations | 18:34 |
| bilboed-tp | lcuk might be doing a prototype within the next few days | 18:34 |
| odin_ | but does it have "nokia N900 space" ? how does an N900 get converted to Mer ? | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: bootmenu :) | 18:35 |
| dmj7261 | cool | 18:35 |
| ShadowJK | dropped my N900 first time today, that's almost a week of no dropping! | 18:35 |
| ShadowJK | (it survived) | 18:35 |
| dmj7261 | did you guys get a chance to look at my mockup? | 18:35 |
| type_t | carpet or wood floor? | 18:35 |
| ccooke | (anyone know how stable/fast the firefox beta is these days?) | 18:36 |
| odin_ | ccooke, ask timeless ? | 18:36 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 18:36 |
| ShadowJK | type_t, window, plastic, aluminium tube, rubber floor | 18:36 |
| timeless_mbp | on what device? | 18:36 |
| ccooke | on the n900 :-) | 18:36 |
| * timeless_mbp is busy making firefox not crash | 18:36 | |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, i don't use it that often | 18:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm told it's better than it was | 18:37 |
| dmj7261 | bilboed-tp: I'd be curious about what ideas you guys came up with | 18:37 |
| DangerMaus | goods luck on that one | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: we're interested in contributors if you want to help work towards a 100% oss userland (with exception of some hw support blobs) | 18:37 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: know if it's optified? | 18:38 |
| timeless_mbp | i know they were trying to get that working | 18:38 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, I'm after the N900 device but am happy to spend a Gb of storage on a fuller/normal userland | 18:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it's kinda stupid too | 18:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | because gecko supports building/running from anywhere | 18:38 |
| timeless_mbp | so it shouldn't matter where it lives | 18:38 |
| bilboed-tp | dmj7261, everything in one window with fullscreen video | 18:38 |
| bilboed-tp | dmj7261, so... no fancy hyper complex features | 18:38 |
| TommyBres | hey, stupid question but are there any decent maemo blogs out there, not related to the platform itself but rumors of upcoming phones and what not | 18:39 |
| TommyBres | basically my next phone will either be maemo or android, i have an idea what's coming for android but no clue about maemo | 18:39 |
| bilboed-tp | dmj7261, someone was making slides about it | 18:39 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, I don't want/need everything a full distro offers, just no busy box, a bash shell, etc... creature comforts | 18:39 |
| dmj7261 | http://imagebin.org/74066 | 18:39 |
| dmj7261 | http://imagebin.org/74067 | 18:39 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, maybe a "busybox-less" upgrade packages can be produced ? | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: it's better in maemo5 i think | 18:40 |
| * TommyBres pokes everyone | 18:40 | |
| dmj7261 | I was thinking the same thing though with stackable windows to handle things like getting files | 18:40 |
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| Stskeeps | TommyBres: planet.maemo.org seems to be a decent source | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:41 |
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| TommyBres | Stskeeps: yeah i was checking that out, seems it's all focused on the N900 | 18:42 |
| TommyBres | are there no other phones rumored to release, ever? | 18:42 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, infact thats what I shall add to my "personal software goals", a "busyboxless" package upgrade, I shall take a look at what Mer offers once I get SDK installed (after I reinstall workstation onto Fedora12) | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: there's rumours of a Maemo6 device which would be OMAP3 and probably capacitive screen due to harmattan needs | 18:42 |
| TommyBres | ooh good start | 18:42 |
| derf | odin_: I would certainly love a busybox-replacement package. | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: but N900 is very very capable in itself | 18:42 |
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| TommyBres | yeah but 1) no AT&T 3G, 2) resistive screen, 3) 3 row keyboard | 18:43 |
| TommyBres | those are the reasons i don't want it | 18:43 |
| TommyBres | i currently have a capacitive screen and a 5 row keyboard, it'd be a huge downgrade in those regards | 18:43 |
| odin_ | derf, yes.. I'm trying to understand what I need (and what I think others would like) to contribute something, I also have Java support to look at (as I'm heavily into that in my paid work) | 18:43 |
| pekuja | Stskeeps: do resistive screens not work in harmattan winds? | 18:43 |
| jebba | noob sdk Q: how do i get the home/end keys to work in SDK? They just give me "~" key. | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | pekuja: people keep on claiming that. i'm doubtful personally | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: I'm unsure of exactly the cause. | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | apart from the overloaded keyboard, the keyboard is nice, it took only about 3 days for me to adjust to it... whereas some 4 row keyboards have needed weeks :/ | 18:44 |
| derf | odin_: Well, just keep in mind, I think some people looked at replacing pieces of busybox before, and system boot time went up _considerably_. | 18:44 |
| pekuja | well, a capacitive screen doesn't work with gloves :-p | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: I've been doing exactly the wrong thing. | 18:44 |
| odin_ | TommyBres, what device do you currently have? I am somewhat unhappy with the keyboard too | 18:44 |
| jebba | ya, busybox makes diff uninstallable and has a grep without `grep -w` ... | 18:44 |
| TommyBres | i have an HTC Dream right now | 18:44 |
| TommyBres | with Android | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: As in installing ~20 apps | 18:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | from extras-unstable | 18:44 |
| SpeedEvil | is there a way to get proper find? | 18:44 |
| derf | jebba: grep \\\<word\\\> ? | 18:45 |
| TommyBres | odin_: as for the N900's keyboard, yeah, i really think it's a disgrace... plenty of phones settle for 4 row keyboards, but 3 row? with the spacebar jammed into the bottom row? that's abysmal | 18:45 |
| pekuja | I haven't even got my N900 yet though. dunno if I would really want to use it with gloves on... but maybe in cold weather I'd use it with a sylus | 18:45 |
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| pekuja | which doesn't work that well with a capacitive screen | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | i like the n900 keyboard personally | 18:45 |
| TommyBres | i come on IRC on my phone nearly daily, so the keyboard is a big thing for me | 18:46 |
| jebba | derf: seems to work thx | 18:46 |
| TommyBres | pekuja: well you could get some of those iphone gloves :P | 18:46 |
| odin_ | derf, ok bootup time is definately something to be worked on as well, but thats not necessarly a gnu-utils-chain issue | 18:46 |
| derf | Yer welcome. | 18:46 |
| dmj7261 | bilboed-tp: I posted links to my mockups above | 18:46 |
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| TommyBres | and a capacitive stylus | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | bootup time of n900 is really good, fwiw. | 18:46 |
| derf | odin_: I'm just saying the change in utils is what caused the difference. | 18:46 |
| Klowner_ | Stskeeps: compared to my old blackberry, heck yes | 18:46 |
| TommyBres | i've had my phone since like february and i've never had a time where i was mad the screen was capacitive | 18:46 |
| odin_ | does anyone know if the flasher program is 2-way, can I download the current 32Gb flash image to a file (as well as upload and overwrite?) I want to know if I brink it, must I loose my data ? | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: no, it doesn't extract contents of device | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | n900 bootup time is comparable to my s60 phones.. | 18:47 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, is that a valid features request ? to see why some devices failed ? | 18:47 |
| valdyn | odin_: cat should work. | 18:47 |
| TommyBres | android's boot is a bit slow, i won't lie, but i don't reboot very often so it's alright | 18:47 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: i'm not sure NOLO is capable of extracting, but hmm | 18:47 |
| jebba | odin_: you dont' lose your data on reflash (e.g. /home/user) but you do lose any installed apps since symlinks get broken | 18:48 |
| pekuja | TommyBres: yeah, but then I'd always have to wear those gloves | 18:48 |
| pekuja | TommyBres: and if they get dirty, that could turn nasty | 18:48 |
| valdyn | odin_: the flashable device isnt 32gb, thats only 256 iirc | 18:48 |
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| pekuja | TommyBres: a clean stylus might be a better option | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: i guess it could prove useful to be able to extract mmc and internal flash contents | 18:48 |
| KMFDM | i personally would never buy a capacitive screen. 4 months of the year where I can't use touch? and wind would rip the stylus out of your hand | 18:48 |
| TommyBres | pekuja: they have capacitive stylii | 18:48 |
| TommyBres | i just have no reason whatsoever for a stylus tbh | 18:48 |
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| KMFDM | plus iphone gloves are 100 euros | 18:49 |
| TommyBres | most times when an operating system is meant to be used with a resistive screen, they take advantage of having a stylus by making certain things smaller (the "X" to close windows in windows mobile, for example) | 18:49 |
| odin_ | the images I just burnt to CDROM are around 161Mb, the reflash images | 18:49 |
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| KMFDM | as if i have that left after buying a smart phone or am going to spend on gloves jsut because it uses an inferior screen technology | 18:49 |
| SpeedEvil | The stylus is awesome for tetris. | 18:49 |
| TommyBres | but when an OS is made for finger use (OSX, Android, WebOS) i never feel the need for a stylus | 18:49 |
| SpeedEvil | killer app | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: FWIW, you can emulate that by putting in a external SD card and making a kernel that boots from external SD | 18:50 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: that could be a cool tool for rescuing data, fwiw | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: and then with flasher ask it to load that kenrel | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | (there's a "don't have to flash, just load the kernel" option) | 18:51 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, where are the instructons for that? booting from 2nd MMC card (not internal) in priority over internal | 18:51 |
| w00t | I haven't really used the stylus with my n900 | 18:51 |
| pekuja | do you think Maemo is designed for stylus use? | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: it's a CONFIG_CMDLINE | 18:51 |
| TommyBres | ew, you didn't mention the rumored N920 has no keyboard | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: that's a fake rumour | 18:52 |
| Myrtti | hahahaha N920 | 18:52 |
| TommyBres | oh? | 18:52 |
| Myrtti | the best joke ever | 18:52 |
| TommyBres | k | 18:52 |
| TommyBres | so where's the rumor you were actually talking about | 18:52 |
| TommyBres | maemo 6, capacitive screen, etc | 18:52 |
| fnordianslippers | i used the stylus just nowl when running a remote X app over ssh. the menus were a bit small | 18:52 |
| Myrtti | TommyBres: you just said it | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: that's announced roadmap of maemo6 .. they don't do it for no reason | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:52 |
| odin_ | yeah thats gonna be the N911 it has a turbo button | 18:52 |
| TommyBres | Myrtti: someone in here told me there was another phone rumored, they didn't mention it was a joke :P | 18:53 |
| SpeedEvil | TommyBres: There is | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: so basically build your own kernel with MMC modules in it, CONFIG_CMDLINE with root=/dev/mmcwhatever | 18:53 |
| SpeedEvil | TommyBres: problem is - no hard info | 18:53 |
| TommyBres | ...okay? | 18:53 |
| Myrtti | TommyBres: it just isn't "N920# | 18:53 |
| TommyBres | i'm asking, WHEREZ TEH RUMOR | 18:53 |
| SpeedEvil | TommyBres: hte 'n920' stuff diddn't come from a credible source | 18:53 |
| w00t | pekuja: maemo 5? not really | 18:53 |
| w00t | pekuja: i never really have trouble hitting stuff with my finger | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: maemo6 device is second half of 2010 though | 18:54 |
| w00t | pekuja: it almost seems like it reads my mind. | 18:54 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, I have not gotten that far yet... CONFIG_CMDLINE ? what is that used with ? NOLO ? but NOLO is built into the device and everyone says, don't mess with that | 18:54 |
| TommyBres | oh forget that | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: and your n900 will sureley last ill then | 18:54 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: CONFIG_CMDLINE is in kernel configuration :) | 18:54 |
| TommyBres | jeez, as quickly as android has exploded, maemo seems to be crawling :P | 18:54 |
| TommyBres | Stskeeps: i want a decent phone, not an N900 | 18:54 |
| pekuja | w00t: woot | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: have to wait then probably | 18:54 |
| Myrtti | TommyBres: http://www.nokiaport.de/forum/thread.php?threadid=5379 that's the fake uncovered. there's no pictures of a device, there's no single document that has everything, there's just a mention of a feature there and another here | 18:54 |
| TommyBres | nah, i'll stick with android | 18:54 |
| Myrtti | TommyBres: have fun | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | TommyBres: you diddn't see android at the start | 18:54 |
| TommyBres | Myrtti: thanks | 18:54 |
| TommyBres | SpeedEvil: i didn't? | 18:55 |
| TommyBres | it released october 23rd 2008, and by the end of october there were rumored android phones from motorola, kogan, garmin, samsung... | 18:55 |
| TommyBres | motorola's came, kogan's was canceled, garmin's is still in the works, and samsung's came | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | TommyBres: Or rather - the n900 compares favourably to the exposure I had earlier than 2008 | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: just because there's different hw it doesn't mean it's not crap :) | 18:55 |
| TommyBres | hah | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | the n900 works for me personally. | 18:56 |
| TommyBres | well i have a 5 row keyboard and a capacitive screen | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | so? | 18:56 |
| TommyBres | you have 3 rows, a spacebar next to the N and B | 18:56 |
| TommyBres | epic. fail. :| | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | to oct 2008 | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | which is by the way, very handy for thumb usage | 18:56 |
| TommyBres | 3 rows? | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Feel free to go away. | 18:56 |
| w00t | TommyBres: works for me, it might not work for you | 18:56 |
| TommyBres | s/handy/annoying | 18:56 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, okay but the kernel isn't booted ? I'm saying if an auxillary MMC card is prepared and plugged in, how do you get the N900 to boot from it? you can't say use CONFIG_CMDLINE when you compile the kernel, since the issue I'm asking about is getting this (arbitrary) kernel to boot in preference to the internal flash one | 18:56 |
| w00t | (is today troll day, or what?) | 18:56 |
| TommyBres | oh don't worry, i feel free to roam IRC as i please | 18:56 |
| valdyn | does this channel have a policy against trolls in place? | 18:56 |
| Myrtti | TommyBres: in case you haven't noticed yet, you're trolling | 18:57 |
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| TommyBres | w00t: don't be such a dolt, i came in here to ask about other phones | 18:57 |
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| TommyBres | Myrtti: what i just said to woot, consider the same | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: go try a n900 and then have a proper opinion on it. | 18:57 |
| w00t | TommyBres: rather, I'll just go back to doing something productive | 18:57 |
| w00t | enjoy your stay | 18:57 |
| TommyBres | bye | 18:57 |
| Myrtti | TommyBres: and we told you what little we know, and you keep ranting about how shit n900 and the rumoured one is, and how great android is. I call it trolling | 18:57 |
| TommyBres | ummm | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: right, you can use flasher to load a certain kernel over USB | 18:57 |
| TommyBres | Myrtti: i commented how there's only one phone rumored and that's really weird, comparing to the start of android | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: maemo is mostly a one-vendor thing | 18:58 |
| TommyBres | and then someone else decided to tell ME what i did and didn't see, being the beginning of android | 18:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | TommyBres: the start of android was _NOT_ oct 2008 | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: flasher-3.5 -k zImage -l | 18:58 |
| TommyBres | Stskeeps: i know, but it's still open source | 18:58 |
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| TommyBres | SpeedEvil: the release of the first android handset was | 18:58 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, oh... thats not what I want to do :( I'm thinking that NOLO can run a bootloader, this bootloader works out which kernel to run, etc... | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: nah, not possible | 18:58 |
| w00t | maemo also wasn't even a phone platform until august | 18:58 |
| TommyBres | SpeedEvil: you could argue that the release of maemo wasn't just recently, but the release of the N900 was | 18:58 |
| Myrtti | anyway, I've got my knitting and LOTR to do | 18:59 |
| jebba | woo hoo! just called my phone and had asterisk answered :) | 18:59 |
| * Stskeeps puts TommyBres on ignore and goes do more productive things | 18:59 | |
| TommyBres | w00t: android is on netbooks already, what's your point? they're versatile | 18:59 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: high five | 18:59 |
| TommyBres | Stskeeps: hahah announcing ignores is for 14 year old girls | 18:59 |
| * Myrtti feels girly | 18:59 | |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, what happens to the original kernel image when you run that ? I wish to keep it around, possibly boot up on it next time | 18:59 |
| TommyBres | ...and high fiving announced ignores? more 14 year old girls | 18:59 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: nothing | 18:59 |
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| * Arkenoi tries to think out a hack to share location via google latitude web client | 18:59 | |
| TommyBres | i can't even consider the N900 as having a QWERTY because the spacebar messes up the traditional interface of the keyboard | 19:00 |
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| odin_ | Stskeeps, ok, so only thet one-time bootup runs that kernel and that kernel is loadeded over USB ? | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: right | 19:00 |
| frals | <3 trolls | 19:00 |
| TommyBres | ....lol | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | TommyBres: and so fucking what. if you don't like N900, fuck off. you don't belong in this community. | 19:00 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, ok understand it now, so a bootloader can be developed this way too ? | 19:00 |
| TommyBres | <3 people who call me a troll for disagreeing | 19:00 |
| TommyBres | Stskeeps: i love MAEMO, i don't like the N900 | 19:00 |
| TommyBres | i don't belong in the MAEMO community because i don't like one phone? | 19:00 |
| Myrtti | TommyBres: then don't buy one | 19:00 |
| TommyBres | Myrtti: i'm not... | 19:01 |
| Myrtti | moving on | 19:01 |
| TommyBres | that's like if someone came into #android telling me the G1 sucks, i don't give a fuck, get another handset, they're there for the OS, not the phone | 19:01 |
| w00t | can people please stop feeding the troll? just ignore it and it'll die off | 19:01 |
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| Myrtti | so a duck walks into a bar... | 19:01 |
| frals | :D | 19:01 |
| flux | hmph, I just ran out of ptys | 19:01 |
| TommyBres | hey, maybe calling someone a troll will keep them from talking | 19:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I just ran out of potatos. | 19:02 |
| w00t | SpeedEvil: I've got plenty | 19:02 |
| TommyBres | haha good to know maemo has such a garbage community | 19:02 |
| TommyBres | that's enough to keep me away, take care little high school girls | 19:02 |
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| w00t | told you | 19:02 |
| w00t | attention starvation | 19:02 |
| w00t | they can't stand not being the center of it | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | flux: yeah, pty limit is a issue :P | 19:02 |
| odin_ | flux, how many u using ? | 19:03 |
| flux | odin_, I actually rebooted already but I don't think it was 'that many' | 19:03 |
| flux | a few ssh's in. but I had disconnected some from the client end, maybe they were lingering still | 19:03 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: we already have bootmenu though | 19:04 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, can you " flasher-3.5 -k zBootmenu -l" to test it ? | 19:04 |
| flux | is there a way to call some script when a network interface goes up? pkill -USR1 openvpn.. | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: no, it sits as a /sbin/preinit hook | 19:05 |
| flux | ah :), there's /etc/network, do those scripts work? | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | flux: used to | 19:05 |
| type_t | ok you guys need to get back in your cribs ok.. stop fighting.. | 19:06 |
| flux | maybe I'll just test first | 19:06 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, huh surely that is too late, and can't be a boot menu ? | 19:06 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: sure it is, just like initrd passes on control | 19:06 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, bootmenu is for selecting the kernel to load (and the params to pass it) | 19:06 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: yes, and that's not possible | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | bootmenu on maemo is something that boots a different rootfs | 19:07 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, why is it not possible ? that is the basis of your claim | 19:07 |
| flux | they do work | 19:07 |
| jebba | cool. Running asterisk 1.4 on n900, calling out to digium's test system, uses about 5% of cpu | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: ok, first off, kexec doesn't work. the only way to switch kernels is either by flashing it into NAND or loading over USB. | 19:07 |
| type_t | for the qwerty issue .. there got to be a way of connect a USB hub and pop a usb Keyboard and thats it.. | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: what i suggested was a special kernel that when booted, instead of mounting internal NAND rootfs, mounted the external MMC and booted a rescue mode from ther | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | e | 19:08 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, I'm saying make a cut-down linux which can barely work MMC/display/keyboard, this can also throw away state and load a kernel from anywhere once done to bootup a real kernel | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: yes, but that's what i'm saying is not possible. kexec is broken. | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | that's the stuff that can load a new kernel from inside a kernel. | 19:09 |
| w00t | unfixably broken? | 19:10 |
| type_t | hacker proof. that is.. | 19:10 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, broken as in... has never worked on MIPS arch ? doesn't work on N900 ? | 19:10 |
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| Stskeeps | odin_: it's ARM, and last i tried it failed to work | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | it has worked on n8x0 once, but there was a serial console race condition. | 19:10 |
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| Stargazers | Hi! | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | hi Stargazers | 19:14 |
| Stargazers | Anyone got mafw-lastfm and even made it work? | 19:14 |
| Stargazers | On n900. | 19:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | #1 dealbreaker. Bounce only has two playable levels. | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | hexedit it for more | 19:15 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I suddenly Understood. | 19:16 |
| Stargazers | Or is there any other last.fm scrobblers out there what will work on Nokia N900? | 19:16 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: In order to keep stupid people from using your app, you should simply distribute it as a .deb, outside of any repos! | 19:16 |
| * RST38h has seen the light! | 19:16 | |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: didn't work with mer | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:17 |
| w00t | that's because you kept whoring it out | 19:17 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: You are getting ridiculous queries on Mer as well? | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: well, more of a religious nature :P | 19:18 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: Ah, this is different! | 19:18 |
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| serpent | hi | 19:20 |
| Stargazers | serpent: Hi | 19:20 |
| serpent | is there a way to compile on the n900? | 19:20 |
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| w00t | Stskeeps: frothing of the mouth is not religious, it is a disease | 19:20 |
| andre__ | serpent, nope. use the SDK instead. | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: terrifyingly enough you might be wrong :P | 19:21 |
| andre__ | there probably is a way, sure. | 19:21 |
| * Stskeeps tries to find the thread | 19:21 | |
| andre__ | but a complicated one i guess | 19:21 |
| b-man17 | serpent: install gcc | 19:22 |
| * SpeedEvil does first battery rundown test when idle. | 19:22 | |
| Stskeeps | serpent: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=352855&postcount=19 | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | serpent: careful though, it's not a typical usage :) | 19:24 |
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| jebba | bootstrap gcc on it... ;) possible, but way better to just use SDK.... | 19:24 |
| BluesLee | i thought portrait mode is disabled | 19:24 |
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| serpent | andre__: gcc is installed but cant see it on the path | 19:25 |
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| BluesLee | it seems possible to switch to using a portrait mode app | 19:25 |
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| frals | portrait mode isnt disabled, just most of the builtin apps doesnt support it | 19:25 |
| Jaffa | ~frals++ | 19:26 |
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| frals | :) | 19:27 |
| * frals goes back to java and multicasting | 19:27 | |
| timeless_mbp | hello jaem_ | 19:27 |
| timeless_mbp | hello Jaffa | 19:27 |
| Jaffa | hi timeless_mbp | 19:30 |
| * Jaffa is busy working on a presentation about Android (don't ask) | 19:30 | |
| Stskeeps | my condolences | 19:31 |
| serpent | which installer should i choose? | 19:31 |
| serpent | gui, scratchbox or sdk? | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | gui prolly | 19:32 |
| serpent | where is the doc about the differences? | 19:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: i'm looking for testers as usual :) | 19:33 |
| Lorthirk | testers for what? | 19:34 |
| jebba | serpent: just go with GUI unless it doesn't work (which it should). Quick & easy. | 19:34 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: what do you need? | 19:34 |
| timeless_mbp | enus1/engb1/clock data fix | 19:34 |
| * w00t blinks | 19:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | but lemme pull in a clock data update before you guys get started | 19:35 |
| * w00t makes a 'woosh' noise | 19:35 | |
| w00t | :P | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | don't worry, the instructions for installing are easy | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | and testing is well... | 19:35 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Unfortunately, wife's just called! | 19:36 |
| timeless_mbp | cheater | 19:36 |
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| serpent | jebba: i have a 9" display and the qt window doesnt fit | 19:37 |
| jebba | serpent: hold down the ALT key and click-drag the window to get to the bottom buttons. It's only a few steps. | 19:38 |
| serpent | thanks | 19:39 |
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| markus__ | hy everybody | 19:42 |
| markus__ | I sucessfully installed the maemo sdk yesterday and could compile a helloworld program | 19:43 |
| markus__ | Now I am wondering how I could use kate or any other editor to modify my programs | 19:43 |
| markus__ | used nano in the console so far | 19:43 |
| markus__ | sorry, if stupid question. Just started to learn it all :-) | 19:44 |
| jebba | markus__: from outside of the scratchbox, edit the file | 19:46 |
| jebba | markus__: like in my case: /scratchbox/users/jebba/home/jebba/foo.txt | 19:46 |
| jebba | then just do the building from within the scratchbox | 19:46 |
| markus__ | this works. thanx | 19:47 |
| odin_ | ok I moved my /var/lib/dpkg to /home/opt/maemo/var/lib/dpkg (and wrote a script to help someone else do it) | 19:49 |
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| odin_ | after the 25Mb move, I only got another 7Mb of space, I did a "sync" and got another 2Mb back on rootfs. I did a reboot and now I have 47Mb. | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | garbage collection maybe | 19:54 |
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| Stskeeps | and remember it's compressed | 19:54 |
| odin_ | any ubifs experts on? does it not automatically recalc/compact ? or is the issue some programs using rootfs to open file, which they then delete but hold onto file descriptor? | 19:54 |
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| woglinde | stskeep do you know if I can develop with sdk+ for fremantle? | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | woglinde: -think- you can, but not sure | 19:55 |
| woglinde | hm | 19:55 |
| woglinde | because the rootfs for fremantle is from april or so | 19:55 |
| woglinde | I dont want to switch back ti sb1 | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | just use the newer rootstrap | 19:56 |
| woglinde | hm uh? | 19:56 |
| woglinde | hm where is it? | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | repository.maemo.org/stable somewhre | 19:57 |
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| woglinde | hm ah | 19:58 |
| cehteh | odin_: such things are possible with newer filesystems (nilfs, btrfs which i know) .. no experience with ubifs | 19:58 |
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| RST38h | Ha ha ha ha ha | 19:59 |
| RST38h | It is building! | 19:59 |
| woglinde | rst what? | 20:00 |
| woglinde | hm has the n900 a micro? | 20:00 |
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| jebba | woglinde: microSD? yes. I added additional 16G. | 20:03 |
| jebba | RST38h: what you building? | 20:03 |
| woglinde | jebba no microphone | 20:03 |
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| jebba | of course it has a microfone (?) | 20:04 |
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| woglinde | hm | 20:05 |
| woglinde | cool | 20:05 |
| woglinde | I will try to get http://performous.org/ to compile and work | 20:05 |
| odin_ | Stskeeps, just reading up on "UBI" if this works directly on top of flash, the it should be possible to implment "assured rewrite non-volatile memory" as part of a Secutity Storage API ? you just need to be able to disable Flash Translation Layer and force actions on specific physical flash pages | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | odin_: out of my league, sorry | 20:06 |
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| Klowner_ | jebba: *most* of them have microphones :( | 20:07 |
| LoCusF | btw, are there any restrictions on users themselves distributing the binaries of iNES and drnoksnes? | 20:07 |
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| ShadowJK | Klowner_, you still haven't exchanged yours? | 20:08 |
| jebba | Stskeeps answered this in #maemo-devel, but i'll just give it a shot here for kicks. Anyone available to approve uploading to extras-testing (garage). ping X-Fade :) | 20:08 |
| type_t_ | odin_ not my league but sounds thats a way to implement a storage to flash. | 20:08 |
| jebba | asterisk 1.6.1.11 fwiw | 20:08 |
| Klowner_ | ShadowJK: they haven't replaced it yet, they received it on wednesday and sent me this email this morning http://pastebin.ca/1703178 | 20:09 |
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| BluesLee | how do i enter the first supertux level, some knows? | 20:11 |
| jebba | hit enter ? | 20:11 |
| jebba | down arrow to get to the red dot then hit enter? | 20:11 |
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| odin_ | it looks like the "UBI" part is a layer allowing for direct flash page manipulation (or a corrected flash page manipulation, i.e. all the problems are transparently fixed by low level driver) but that fact you can still get at the unfixed view means you can implment security on top of flash | 20:14 |
| ShadowJK | The N900 has 256MB of OneNAND storage. It's direct flash.. | 20:15 |
| ShadowJK | I've only vaguely looked at it, but I think UBI is a FTL (that runs in software on the device), and ubifs is the filesystem used on top of ubi. | 20:16 |
| odin_ | security requirements would include, immediate erasure of sensitite blocks, assured rewrite of same block (or rather assured overwrite/erasure of the old data) | 20:16 |
| cehteh | ubifs is in the mainline kernel | 20:16 |
| odin_ | 256Mb is the RAM ? is it static ram ? my N900 has 32Gb internal storage, which is said to be flash based (but i never took it apart!) | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | no, the NAND | 20:16 |
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| cehteh | odin_: the 32GB are eMMC | 20:17 |
| cehteh | plus 256MB nand flash | 20:17 |
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| odin_ | plus 256Mb ram ? | 20:17 |
| cehteh | yes | 20:17 |
| ShadowJK | 256megabytes of SDRAM, 256 megabytes of OneNAND, 32 gigabytes of emmc | 20:17 |
| odin_ | ah cool, so if we can nick a page of 256MB nand flash, for secutiry API purposes? | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | And up to 16G of microSD - at the moment | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: I think you want it at a lower level than is available. | 20:18 |
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| cehteh | i'd avoid touching the nand as much as possible :P | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: I think there is a raw mode, which requires a special driver | 20:18 |
| ShadowJK | You'd have to modify ubifs in the kernel | 20:19 |
| SpeedEvil | odin_: and doesn't do ECC, or error-checking | 20:19 |
| cehteh | ubifs or the ftl should do that | 20:19 |
| cehteh | well not sure | 20:19 |
| * fnordianslip has just discovered some kind of kinetic scrolling in xchat on the n900 | 20:20 | |
| fnordianslip | cool | 20:20 |
| ShadowJK | how? | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | the xterm kinetic scrolls | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | as a default | 20:21 |
| ShadowJK | xchat not xterm | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 20:21 |
| odin_ | Im thinking its a simply request to someone at noika, "Hey a supported Secutiry Storage API would be desirable, but you don't need to you to do everything, just the hardware bit" | 20:21 |
| * SpeedEvil is tired. | 20:21 | |
| ShadowJK | odin_, I suspect the hardware is able to do it | 20:21 |
| fnordianslip | ShadowJK: by dragging up/down in the left hand side of the screen until you reach the top/bottom and it continues to scroll up/down | 20:21 |
| odin_ | gawd my spelling is getting worse... | 20:21 |
| ShadowJK | fnordianslip, ah | 20:21 |
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| fnordianslip | beats trying to use the scrollbars | 20:22 |
| ShadowJK | dunno, I can hit the scrollbar with my thumb with >50% reproducability atleast | 20:22 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders if there's such a security api at all in linux yet | 20:23 | |
| fnordianslip | you must have a pointy thumb | 20:23 |
| ShadowJK | don't need a pointy thumb | 20:23 |
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| ShadowJK | just need the center to be on the scrollbar | 20:23 |
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| fnordianslip | hmm. perhaps. i like the draggy thing | 20:24 |
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| wavelengths | alright, another n900 noob looking for someone to reveal the Truth of telepathy plugins : ) | 20:26 |
| wavelengths | i tried an apt-get of telepathy-haze from extras-testing, and then realized that did absolutely nothing to add the transport to Accounts | 20:27 |
| wavelengths | any insights? | 20:27 |
| Stskeeps | wavelengths: install account-plugin- something that's there | 20:28 |
| wavelengths | heh, had a feeling that was the case! down to extras-devel then | 20:28 |
| wazd | mmmm, I can buy mac pro case for just 200 bucks, mmm | 20:28 |
| hardaker | account-plugin-haze | 20:28 |
| wavelengths | alright, and if i've got my telepathy-haze installed like an idiot already from extras-testing, i assume i should remove that before the dev build? | 20:29 |
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| odin_ | wavelengths, I installed them via the HAM UI and they worked for me | 20:30 |
| hardaker | there is actually something like telepathy-SOMETHING where SOMETHING is bigbundle, everything, modules, extras, or s... I can't remember | 20:30 |
| hardaker | it installs everything and is what I did. | 20:31 |
| wavelengths | yeah, ran across that the other day as well - i'll give that a shot, thanks | 20:31 |
| hardaker | telepathy-extras | 20:31 |
| hardaker | (just looked it up) | 20:32 |
| wavelengths | thanks! | 20:32 |
| oops6_4 | Hi I have n810 and I want to transfer some file from my computer to n810 I connected the USB data cable the device got connected and I Copy pasted the file in that as normal USB storage device but now I can't able to see that file from the device | 20:32 |
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| woglinde | oops6_4 maybee its under /mnt/mmc2 | 20:33 |
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| woglinde | after disconnect the cable | 20:34 |
| oops6_4 | woglinde: well I will try and get back 1 min | 20:34 |
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| Lorthirk | oops6_4: you have to disconnect the usb cable as woglinde said | 20:34 |
| oops6_4 | Lorthirk: checking | 20:35 |
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| wavelengths | hardaker: had any notable problems with the new plugins? | 20:35 |
| johnsq | Hi | 20:35 |
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| hardaker | nope. they work fine. occasionally sometimes they seem to fail to connect. | 20:36 |
| oops6_4 | woglinde: hey its there but how do I access it form the file manager | 20:36 |
| hardaker | but I doubt that's the plugins fault since it happens sometimes from the desktop too. | 20:36 |
| wavelengths | yeah, sounds about right. i've been using trillian on the windows desktop for ages and it tends to go a bit silly now and again. | 20:36 |
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| oops6_4 | I have installed the scratchbox on my system and for QT followed this wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt but while installing qt "apt-get qt4-dev-tools" its giving error "/scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: `messagebus:messagebus': invalid user" | 20:41 |
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| RST38h | I built Vulture's Eye for N900. It works! | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | nethack? :P | 20:44 |
| jebba | fwiw, i have messagebus user/group in my SDK and i didnt set it up manually | 20:44 |
| jebba | heh cute | 20:45 |
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| oops6_4 | jebba: so can you tall me how do I add messagebus user/group | 20:46 |
| naxxatoe | First and foremost, i have to say: thank you guys, its a pleasure to see that there is so much active development already going on, as i know the n900 is only out on the market for 5 days =) - congrats to all of you | 20:47 |
| javispedro | hiyo | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | naxxatoe: community has existed since 2005 :) it's first now it has a phone | 20:48 |
| naxxatoe | yeah | 20:48 |
| jebba | oops6_4: useradd/groupadd. My lines look like this: | 20:48 |
| woglinde | hi javis | 20:48 |
| naxxatoe | i know but still its really awsome =) | 20:49 |
| redeeman | naxxatoe: you are developing for the N900 aswell? | 20:49 |
| jebba | messagebus:!:30000:30000::/var/run/dbus:/bin/sh | 20:49 |
| naxxatoe | yes | 20:49 |
| jebba | dialout:*:20:user,messagebus,root | 20:49 |
| jebba | messagebus:x:30000: | 20:49 |
| redeeman | in that case, i have a few questions | 20:49 |
| redeeman | i have setup my scratchbox and installed qt4 stuff | 20:49 |
| naxxatoe | currently building a imsi catcher - catcher | 20:49 |
| jebba | oops6_4: but if those lines arent there, your SDK may not have gotten set up correctly. | 20:49 |
| redeeman | but the maemo specific stuff is not available | 20:49 |
| naxxatoe | i develop on the phone itself | 20:49 |
| redeeman | such as orientation and such | 20:49 |
| naxxatoe | using python | 20:49 |
| redeeman | oh | 20:49 |
| oops6_4 | jebba: ok thanks | 20:49 |
| naxxatoe | i am not using the sdk at all, sorry | 20:49 |
| jebba | what is this process? omap2_mcspi disk? | 20:51 |
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| javispedro | sometimes I have to wonder if there's a hidden force in the universe preventing me from getting a device..... | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | you lost one of the 5? | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | (the raffle) | 21:03 |
| javispedro | yep | 21:03 |
| javispedro | but that was to be expected :) | 21:04 |
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| jebba | Connected to Asterisk 1.6.1.11-1 currently running on Nokia-N900-42-11 (pid = 4917) | 21:05 |
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| bilboed | and another evening where every wooshed away to the center of barcelona without informing others | 21:07 |
| bilboed | fail | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | i can pretty much say that lbt and tomaszd probably went to find icecream | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:08 |
| javispedro | well, if nobody knows where to go ... | 21:08 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: wtf. | 21:08 |
| w00t | :P | 21:08 |
| bilboed | javispedro, I'm not complaining, means I have no excuses to go out with my gf :) | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: weird tradition we've started having | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:08 |
| bilboed | javispedro, you live in bcn too, right ? | 21:08 |
| javispedro | (never ask me, i'd say something stupid like a pizza) | 21:08 |
| * bilboed slaps javispedro | 21:09 | |
| javispedro | bilboed: yep | 21:09 |
| bilboed | OUTRAGE ! | 21:09 |
| bilboed | :) | 21:09 |
| * bilboed is more looking at a bodega or something like that | 21:09 | |
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| javispedro | (and I actually had pizza already for food, and it wasn't even me who was choosing :P) | 21:10 |
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| jebba | DocScrutinizer, did you just /msg me? I saw something pop up, but closed the window accidentally, looked like your nick | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, not me | 21:11 |
| jebba | so i have an init.d script which is calling something which wants `getopts`, which is part of bash. Any hints? | 21:12 |
| timeless_mbp | now, where were my volunteers? | 21:12 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: you have an n900, right? | 21:12 |
| javispedro | are you still looking for volunteers, or is this something else to test? | 21:12 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: yes | 21:12 |
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| jebba | ah, getopts is being called by lsb-base... | 21:14 |
| lardman | yay, reboot back to Linux time :) | 21:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | javispedro: if you have an n900, sure :) | 21:16 |
| * javispedro sighs :) | 21:17 | |
| LoCusF | /var/lib/dpkg/info/osso-mission-control.postrm: line 13: /usr/bin/update-desktop-database: No such file or directory <- what on earth is this, the file in question does exist? | 21:18 |
| LoCusF | I get that during removal of osso-mission-control | 21:19 |
| timeless_mbp | ask google? | 21:19 |
| LoCusF | tried, no answers this time | 21:19 |
| javispedro | that file exists on my N810 | 21:19 |
| LoCusF | thats is in my SDK | 21:19 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.google.com/search?q=update-desktop-database%3A&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 | 21:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i get lots of hits for that file | 21:19 |
| javispedro | it exists on my SDK too | 21:19 |
| javispedro | which is on my N810 too since... today (I got bored) | 21:19 |
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| Stskeeps | LoCusF: i'm not confident nokia packages are tested for removability really | 21:20 |
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| LoCusF | argh, of course then ... | 21:20 |
| LoCusF | damn, I gotta reinstall the whole thing now | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | SDK? :P | 21:20 |
| LoCusF | yup | 21:20 |
| LoCusF | any pointers on how to do the reinstall fast :) ? | 21:20 |
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| jebba | is lsb-base installed on the default image? | 21:23 |
| timeless_mbp | LoCusF: virtualization solutions let you snapshot images :) | 21:24 |
| valdyn | LoCusF: the debian package management system is documented, just probably not at maemo.org | 21:24 |
| timeless_mbp | (zfs lets you do better) | 21:24 |
| LoCusF | wow there is this cool gui :) | 21:25 |
| LoCusF | timeless_mbp: yup, already on linux so no problems on that :) | 21:25 |
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| LoCusF | valdyn: yeah I know | 21:25 |
| lardman | how should I remove something in a rules file? | 21:26 |
| v2n900 | just hafd my first random reboot on n900 after. having the phone for about 8h :/ | 21:26 |
| v2n900 | had | 21:26 |
| valdyn | lardman: if the answer isnt "with a text editor" then i dont understand the question | 21:26 |
| lardman | ah, rm -f | 21:26 |
| lardman | valdyn: sorry, poorly stated question | 21:26 |
| lardman | had to remove configure-stamp | 21:28 |
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| lardman | and rules was occasionally complaining, depending how far it got in the build process before crashing :) | 21:28 |
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| apol | can somebody tell me how to use the keyboard through Xephyr? | 21:28 |
| lardman | libgmp here we come (fingers crossed!) | 21:28 |
| lardman | apol: press shift ctrl or something to grab it? | 21:28 |
| lardman | says it on the title bar iirc from the screenies | 21:29 |
| apol | lardman: I want it to respond to my key presses | 21:29 |
| apol | that's all :P | 21:30 |
| apol | my app is listening to arrows pressed and so on | 21:30 |
| lardman | oh I see | 21:30 |
| apol | and they're not triggered :S | 21:30 |
| lardman | no idea then I'm afraid | 21:30 |
| lardman | sorry | 21:30 |
| apol | it's ok :P | 21:31 |
| lardman | ah, so you don't necessarily get any keypresses? | 21:31 |
| apol | lardman: it works in the open dialog | 21:31 |
| lardman | in which case make sure you've pressed the magic keys for Xephyr to grab the kb | 21:31 |
| apol | lardman: magic keys? | 21:31 |
| lardman | ah, ok, back to square one | 21:31 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 21:32 | |
| LoCusF | I also get errors like this: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: line 39: /usr/sbin/userdel: No such file or directory | 21:32 |
| LoCusF | /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: line 40: /usr/sbin/groupdel: No such file or directory | 21:32 |
| LoCusF | thats during the reinstallation of the SDK | 21:32 |
| lardman | is your distro lacking? | 21:33 |
| LoCusF | I don't think so | 21:34 |
| javispedro | apol: are you sure what you're experiencing is something sbox specific and doesn't happen on device? | 21:34 |
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| apol | javispedro: no | 21:35 |
| apol | javispedro: i don't have a device, maybe I can try tomorrow | 21:35 |
| javispedro | apol: if it happens on device too, probably you're missing the appropiate window flags | 21:35 |
| jebba | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6606 | 21:36 |
| povbot` | Bug 6606: No getopts, called by init-functions (lsb-core) | 21:36 |
| apol | javispedro: do I need specific window flags? XD | 21:36 |
| timeless_mbp | help | 21:36 |
| javispedro | wait, i'm looking for the bug # | 21:36 |
| apol | (I'm using plain qt, porting a desktop app) | 21:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here know the name of the book that talks about a tiny little country declaring war against the world | 21:36 |
| timeless_mbp | where the world surrenders | 21:36 |
| RST38h | bug 6666 | 21:36 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6666 was not found. | 21:36 |
| RST38h | Aha. Not yet. | 21:36 |
| timeless_mbp | and the poor country is in trouble because of that? | 21:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | (the small country just wanted money) | 21:36 |
| zemm | is there particular straightforward reason why symlinking parts of /usr/.. to 2GB /home on n900 would be total fail? other than the slower mmc | 21:36 |
| RST38h | "Marshal Kim Jong Il Selected Works Individual Works Philosophical Writings and Biography" | 21:37 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053084/ | 21:37 |
| zemm | i know this has been discussed before but couldn't find answer for if it's totally wrong | 21:37 |
| RST38h | This one? | 21:37 |
| * lardman hopes gmp will build this time as the packaging errors happen at the end and the build & test process takes lots of time & cpu | 21:37 | |
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| javispedro | apol: didn't find the bug report, but we were discussing that here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31696 | 21:38 |
| guestus | hello | 21:38 |
| lardman | zemm: probably not, as long as it's not umounted when the usb is attached | 21:38 |
| timeless_mbp | zemm: how many reasons do you want? | 21:38 |
| lardman | oh | 21:38 |
| pr0t0type | hi | 21:38 |
| lardman | :) | 21:38 |
| javispedro | apol: basically you can use "xprop" to check if this is the case. | 21:38 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: home isn't usb risky | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | bug 666 | 21:38 |
| povbot` | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Problems with Javascript setTimeout function | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 21:38 |
| guestus | can anyone tell me if they think Nokia will allow keyboard layout replacements by servicing? | 21:38 |
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| lardman | timeless: what other reasons have you tucked away then? :) | 21:38 |
| timeless_mbp | zemm: basically what people did was look for the simplest, fastest, "safest" fix | 21:38 |
| fnordianslip | timeless_mbp: sounds like the file "the mouse that roared" | 21:38 |
| zemm | well can it be more bad than bricking with 100% usage on / ? | 21:38 |
| timeless_mbp | fnordianslip: it is | 21:38 |
| timeless_mbp | zemm: anyway | 21:38 |
| timeless_mbp | the problem is... | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | we're stupid... | 21:39 |
| zemm | yes i know, i wasn't talking about general situation, just for myself :) | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | ... we use debian | 21:39 |
| lardman | zemm: well that can always happen no matter hw large your storage | 21:39 |
| lardman | s/hw/how | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | debian uses a package management system (dpkg, apt, whatever) | 21:39 |
| pr0t0type | does anybody use piiptv ? | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | now, if you have symlinks to a secondary file system | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you support a means for reflashing the primary file system | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | and files on the secondary system get out of sync because of this reflash | 21:39 |
| lardman | aaaargh, so close and yet so far | 21:39 |
| timeless_mbp | you're mostly in deep trouble, because you violated a constraint that dpkg assumed | 21:39 |
| apol | javispedro: do you know how can I use xprop? | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | that's problem #1 | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | (actually, this problem exists in the /opt hack too) | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | (but not as bad) | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | mostly, when i tried to move microb to /home, i messed up, and bricked my device | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | then i got tired/distracted, and moved along :) | 21:40 |
| guestus | can anyone tell me if they think Nokia will allow keyboard layout replacements by servicing? | 21:41 |
| zemm | well while i didn't fully understand the flashing thing, this was the answer i was looking for ;) | 21:41 |
| timeless_mbp | guestus: call nokia care and ask? | 21:41 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia care is a group distinct from maemo devices | 21:41 |
| guestus | i can't now, it's the weekend :) | 21:42 |
| guestus | just wondering if it's something they do | 21:42 |
| zemm | maybe i'll try to manage. 49MB free and don't have all the small packages (<500kb) that i want. those add up in quantities :( | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | guestus: schedule a call for monday :) | 21:42 |
| javispedro | apol: use your host's xprop, just set $DISPLAY to point to Xephyr and run xprop, then click on the suspicious window | 21:42 |
| pr0t0type | what streaming formats do work on the n900 ? | 21:43 |
| apol | let's see.. | 21:43 |
| guestus | sure - as I said, just wondering if it's something they do. surely the N900 is not the first device with a keyboard | 21:43 |
| pr0t0type | i want to stream tv from my pc to the n900 | 21:43 |
| lardman | guestus: well there is the poll about what to put on the kb.... | 21:43 |
| javispedro | apol: basically look for "Client accepts input or input focus: True" | 21:43 |
| timeless_mbp | guestus: so, old nokia phones have keypads for which you can buy replacements | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | with alternate layouts | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but the n900 isn't an old phone | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | in theory someone w/ an n810 might have done this | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but in practice most people don't | 21:44 |
| guestus | there's websites in china with spare n97 keypads, so I guess it's doable | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | be smart, buy an en[us/gb]/dutch layout | 21:44 |
| guestus | just wondering if it's doable by Nokia, without opening it up myself | 21:45 |
| apol | javispedro: shows clicks but not key presses as far as I see | 21:45 |
| guestus | I have a chance to buy one for 200€, but it's with only 2 cursor keys | 21:45 |
| guestus | so it's appealing... :) | 21:45 |
| kynky | pr0t0type, if mplayer works, then i would say you can stream tv from pc to n900 | 21:45 |
| apol | javispedro: well, I'll have to investigate more -.- | 21:46 |
| javispedro | apol: if that hint is set every key press will just go to the focused window, which is usually either xterm or the desktop | 21:46 |
| javispedro | s/set/not set | 21:46 |
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| javispedro | (basically the "previous" window you were looking at before launching your app) | 21:46 |
| apol | ooooooh | 21:46 |
| apol | so maybe I have to set the focus to the window? | 21:47 |
| yannj | timeless_mbp : thanks for your answer on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6359 | 21:47 |
| povbot` | Bug 6359: Geolocation show the wrong country when more than one country code in cities database | 21:47 |
| apol | it happens right after showing a fullscreen window | 21:47 |
| apol | javispedro: ^ | 21:47 |
| javispedro | apol: you have to set that hint and the window manager should take care of.. | 21:47 |
| javispedro | ouch. then maybe you're hitting a wm bug? | 21:47 |
| zemm | guestus: you can change the kb layout from settings and get full arrow keys if you don't mind the wrong symbols | 21:47 |
| guestus | zemm: also wondering if the up/down is THAT necessary on the device and if so, do the extra keypresses to get them matter | 21:48 |
| timeless_mbp | yannj: thanks for appreciating it | 21:48 |
| lardman | are there any bugs against the slide to unlock screen? | 21:48 |
| yannj | timeless_mbp : do you think I can help in something else? | 21:48 |
| zemm | i have 2 cursor kb and actually just tried to change the settings, seems to work :) but actually, i haven't even missed those | 21:49 |
| lardman | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36002 | 21:49 |
| zemm | ..having owned the thing for one day | 21:49 |
| guestus | zemm: thanks for your insight ;) | 21:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | sp3000, w00t , yannj : let's use #maemo-clock | 21:49 |
| apol | lardman: maybe it's a bug, because I get the key presses on the window underneath | 21:50 |
| w00t | certainly | 21:50 |
| pr0t0type | kynky that's my problem. mplayer recognizes the url. but it wont stream. can connect to server,but no stream | 21:50 |
| zemm | i remember to have asked that myself from various people and didn't get the answer ;) | 21:50 |
| lardman | apol: under the slide to unlock screen? | 21:50 |
| lardman | that's a whole different bug :) | 21:50 |
| javispedro | apol: you're describing the exact symptoms of what you get when you don't set the "accept focus" hint -- did you check if it's set on your qt window? | 21:51 |
| lardman | anyone want to upload something to the Fremantle builder, do it quick as gmp is about to bring it to its knees | 21:51 |
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| javispedro | (i mean, it's either a maemo-qt bug, a wm bug, or -- still not discarded until it's tested -- xephyr bug) | 21:52 |
| apol | javispedro: i don't have the whole environment running | 21:52 |
| apol | just my application | 21:52 |
| apol | maybe I should start it xD | 21:52 |
| javispedro | running without wm is here be dragons :) | 21:53 |
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| apol | javispedro: when I run it I get a qt error | 21:55 |
| apol | javispedro: "QGtkStyle was unable to detect the current GTK+ theme." | 21:55 |
| javispedro | uh | 21:55 |
| apol | yay xD | 21:55 |
| javispedro | ah | 21:55 |
| javispedro | use "run-standalone.sh <binary>" | 21:55 |
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| apol | javispedro: well, now it looks like maemo | 21:57 |
| javispedro | :) | 21:57 |
| redeeman | hmm, is it a bug that the return OSD key in xterm doesn't actually do it if you write some text inthere? | 21:57 |
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| oops6_4 | hey I am trying to install qt on scratchbox its giving an error "/scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory" | 21:57 |
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| apol | javispedro: i still have the same problem though -.- | 21:57 |
| javispedro | that's not an error, but a "warning" | 21:57 |
| javispedro | apol: have you used xprop to check for the hint? was it there? | 21:58 |
| lardman | ~lart mpfr configure script for not being able to find gmp.h which exists in /usr/include | 21:59 |
| * infobot frags mpfr configure script with his BFG9000 for not being able to find gmp.h which exists in /usr/include | 21:59 | |
| valdyn | oops6_4: that should be dpkg-reconfigure, not "preconfigure" | 21:59 |
| javispedro | well, apt on the sdk tends to complain about missing dpkg-preconfigure from time to time | 21:59 |
| javispedro | up so far it has never halted due to that. | 21:59 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: but that's what the error/warning messages says so how do I change the reconfigure preconfigure | 22:00 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: edit the shell script its running | 22:00 |
| apol | javispedro: http://pastebin.ca/1703385 << that's the output I get | 22:01 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: I am executing apt-get install libqt4-dev | 22:01 |
| javispedro | apol: so the focusable hint is there. then I basically dunno what's going on. | 22:02 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: the whole trace is http://dpaste.com/129630/ | 22:02 |
| apol | javispedro: thanks anyway :) | 22:02 |
| javispedro | oops6_4: the issue here is messagebus being an invalid user of course | 22:05 |
| oops6_4 | javispedro: I have added user messagebus on my host system and alsoe sbox_adduser messagebus | 22:06 |
| oops6_4 | what else I have to so here | 22:06 |
| javispedro | sbox_adduser doesn't do what you think it does :) | 22:07 |
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| javispedro | oops6_4: can you do "apt-get --reinstall install dbus" | 22:08 |
| javispedro | ? | 22:08 |
| oops6_4 | javispedro: hey tried that again some error almost same http://dpaste.com/129633/ | 22:10 |
| javispedro | mmap permission denied triggers a ring | 22:10 |
| javispedro | rings a bell, I mean :) | 22:11 |
| javispedro | I remember some notes about that issue on the SDK release notes | 22:11 |
| jebba | ya, i tried to install a package in SDK and it complained that only root can adduser ... but no running root in SDK AFAICT | 22:11 |
| javispedro | jebba: that's what you have fakeroot for | 22:11 |
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| oops6_4 | javispedro: what's that means and what to do now | 22:11 |
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| javispedro | oops6_4: google: http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-users/2009-August/001522.html | 22:16 |
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| jebba | ah duh. thx javispedro | 22:16 |
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| lardman | Debianisationeration gurus, perk up your ears! | 22:22 |
| lardman | dh_install -plibgmp3-dev -Xgmp-mparam.h build/gmp*.h $(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/usr/include | 22:22 |
| lardman | seems to install the gmp_arm.h file to debian/tmp/usr/include/ | 22:22 |
| lardman | but that file is not included in the package | 22:22 |
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| lardman | any ideas why? | 22:22 |
| oops6_4 | javispedro: hey thanks for the link but I tried everything nothings work | 22:23 |
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| javispedro | oops6_4: after trying that mmap fix you'll probably have to reinstall dbus again (or probably the entire sdk..) | 22:24 |
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| oops6_4 | javispedro: entire sdk is I can so do I have to 1st uninstall the current one if yes then please tell me how | 22:25 |
| david__ | damn how many incorrect sudo password attempts do I get? | 22:25 |
| jebba | 1000 | 22:25 |
| jebba | million | 22:25 |
| javispedro | oops6_4: try first reinstalling dbus and see if "mmap: permission denied" still appears. | 22:26 |
| david__ | seriously does it lock up after a few? | 22:26 |
| jebba | sudo gainroot should just do it david__ | 22:26 |
| jebba | david__: no | 22:26 |
| david__ | ok | 22:26 |
| oops6_4 | javispedro: no its giving the same error | 22:27 |
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| javispedro | then no need to reinstall since it will fail | 22:28 |
| oops6_4 | javispedro: then how do I install libqt4-dev on this can you help | 22:29 |
| javispedro | installing qt4-dev is probably not your biggest problem. most probably nothing runs on the armel target. | 22:29 |
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| david__ | how do I call "Notes" from the command line to open a conf file? | 22:32 |
| SpeedEvil | what is the approved manner for sending a SMS. It can't be the conversation app in the app-menu can it? Or are you supposed to make a desktop link if that's importantt o you? | 22:34 |
| timeless | sms: | 22:35 |
| jysky | other way to do it is just simply start it from contact tha you are sending sms | 22:35 |
| timeless | .. in the browser | 22:35 |
| lardman | hildonmime with sms: at the start of the url | 22:36 |
| plr_ | speed you can just start typing contact name and then choose it and sms | 22:36 |
| jysky | yeah | 22:36 |
| lardman | I use that in mbarcode | 22:36 |
| simula_ | does anyone know how to turn off the accelerometer for use with open arena? | 22:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ah. | 22:36 |
| david__ | damn is it just me or what? Is there a way to enter the ~ symbol? it won't work | 22:37 |
| jysky | amyone got multiple google calendars synced with n900 calendar? | 22:37 |
| lardman | tap it twice, or once + space after | 22:37 |
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| david__ | ah ty | 22:37 |
| lardman | np | 22:37 |
| david__ | hey apt-get remove --purge <name> will completely remove an app right? | 22:41 |
| jysky | weird that hw keyboard doesn't have &-charackter | 22:42 |
| timeless | my, aren't we vindictive? | 22:42 |
| * SpeedEvil passes jysky some tippex. | 22:42 | |
| jysky | he. but now i can't have it in any password. i'd liked to have good passwords | 22:43 |
| david__ | heh I just purged Xournal, and my rootFS used increased?? wtf | 22:44 |
| SpeedEvil | david__: I dunno | 22:45 |
| SpeedEvil | david__: try a reboot | 22:45 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: its -preconfigure in this case i think, i dont know why its not there | 22:45 |
| david__ | during uninstallation it said: gtk-update-icon-cache: Cache file created successfully | 22:45 |
| david__ | said that twice | 22:45 |
| david__ | what is that? | 22:45 |
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| david__ | what should the rootfs size be at before it becomes unstable? | 22:46 |
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| kynky | is openarena and openarena-data optified? im guessing it is | 22:47 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: mind, im really a debian guy and dont know much about maemo, however dpkg-preconfigure should be in the "debconf" package | 22:47 |
| david__ | I hate that the terminal doesn't remember commands unless it's in the same windows | 22:48 |
| david__ | window* | 22:48 |
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| david__ | SpeedEvil, rootfs went down after reboot | 22:48 |
| david__ | down to 74% | 22:48 |
| david__ | ty | 22:48 |
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| oops6_4 | valdyn: you mean I should install debconf then try the other stuff is it ? | 22:50 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: yea, probably | 22:50 |
| Macer | hello | 22:51 |
| AakashPatel | anyone here good with protobufs? | 22:51 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: theres no "real" debian system without debconf, so this is already one point where your setup is significantly different -> see above, i dont know maemo | 22:51 |
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| oops6_4 | valdyn: yeah read that but scratch box is kinda deb so we can try | 22:52 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: debconf is also "Priority: required", so you dont see an explicit Dependency for that package | 22:53 |
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| oops6_4 | valdyn: I tried installing the debconf but again the same -preconfiguration error | 22:54 |
| hrw | morning | 22:54 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: Priority: required packages are part of the debian bootstrap -> you may not be able to install debian packages without them already being installed | 22:54 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: but you can dpkg -x the package contents | 22:55 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: -x just unpacks contents | 22:55 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: but what's the fun in doing that | 22:56 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: its not fun, its what debian does | 22:56 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: so you mean get the deb and do dpkg -x <file>.deb is ti ? | 22:57 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: im talking about "dpkg -x debconf", once dpkg-preconfigure is there, you can then use dpkg -i debconf*deb | 22:57 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: yea, exactly, and repeat for all the stuff needed to use dpkg properly | 22:58 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: ok thanks will try | 22:58 |
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| valdyn | oops6_4: once then dpkg works properly you should dpkg -i the stuff you used dpkg -x for in order to make the package database match the files you have in place | 23:00 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: ok thanks will try | 23:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Odd. Rundown test on n900 with wifi and stuff active. Over 4 hours, battery voltage has risen. | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | And no, it's not plugged in | 23:02 |
| valdyn | temperature changed? | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | nope - still ~7C. | 23:02 |
| fnordianslippers | how do you get details of the battery state? | 23:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | lshal|grep battery | 23:03 |
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| valdyn | or /proc/acpi/ ? | 23:03 |
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| fnordianslippers | tnx | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | no acpi | 23:03 |
| valdyn | I see | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | 1260046584 battery.voltage.current = 4005 (0xfa5) (int) | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | and 1260046584 battery.charge_level.percentage = 77 (0x4d) (int) | 23:04 |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: cat /proc/apm - can you? | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | none | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - none | 23:05 |
| hrw | ok | 23:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: we really need to poke zenity to have better sizing behavior | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | and to use multiple columns if the items fit | 23:05 |
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| redeeman | hmm, is it a bug that the return OSD key in xterm doesn't actually do it if you write some text inthere? | 23:07 |
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| fnordianslippers | think its always been like that. probly a bug though | 23:08 |
| lardman | does dh_install move files or just copy them? | 23:08 |
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| oops6_4 | valdyn: I tried the trick to comment in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70debconf given in the http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=14141 | 23:09 |
| jysky | any way to disable those cheeseheads on conversation? | 23:09 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: so that error gone | 23:09 |
| oops6_4 | valdyn: but this is still there http://dpaste.com/129656/ | 23:11 |
| SpeedEvil | hal-get-property --udi /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/bme --key battery.voltage.current even | 23:12 |
| woglinde | re | 23:13 |
| lardman | hmm, very confusing, my include file is even in the debian/<pkg name> dir and yet doesn't get installed | 23:14 |
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| Sargun | where can I find documentation of the N900's APIs? | 23:18 |
| jebba | man buisybox instead of bash/coreutils causes lots of agony | 23:18 |
| jebba | spent the last hour just to realize the problem was because there is no `groups` command.... | 23:19 |
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| oops6_4 | valdyn: this is the error I am getting always when I start installing Dbus http://dpaste.com/129656/ | 23:22 |
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| paroneayea | f* | 23:39 |
| derf | Is there anyone around that could help with a bugger of an automake problem? | 23:39 |
| paroneayea | so my new data plan stuff kicked in with t-mobile | 23:40 |
| paroneayea | but I can't connect to their internet service | 23:40 |
| derf | I am getting | 23:40 |
| derf | /bin/sh: cygpath: command not found | 23:40 |
| derf | I am, of course, not using cygwin. At all. Or any related Windows thing. | 23:40 |
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| Xisdibik | paroneayea: did you get a sim card from them? | 23:42 |
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| paroneayea | Xisdibik: yeah, I am on their phone service and that works fine. | 23:42 |
| Xisdibik | strange, mine worked fine right from start | 23:42 |
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| Xisdibik | I even get signal and data in a spot that doesnt have service apparently :) | 23:44 |
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| Xisdibik | because my mothers house is about a block out of their service map. | 23:45 |
| valdyn | oops6_4: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=175208 | 23:47 |
| * SpeedEvil is happy about the ridiculouslygood deal from tmobile(uk) | 23:47 | |
| javispedro | doubleplusgood | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | pay 20 quid (~32$) and get 6 months internet with 1G/mo fair use. | 23:48 |
| Stargazers | N900 hangs again :S | 23:48 |
| Stargazers | UI does not respond but I can ssh to it | 23:48 |
| Stargazers | And when I torate phone the UI will change orientation well | 23:49 |
| Stargazers | But I cannot press anything | 23:49 |
| valdyn | Stargazers: restart the window manager? i think thats matchbox | 23:49 |
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| Stargazers | valHow? | 23:49 |
| Stargazers | That is what I am trying to find :) | 23:49 |
| woglinde | hm where do I get the deb-line for libgles2-sgx-img-dev again? | 23:50 |
| javispedro | deb-line? | 23:50 |
| javispedro | ah, repository? | 23:50 |
| woglinde | yes | 23:50 |
| javispedro | *-sgx-* should be in the private nokia repos (-binaries, -apps) | 23:50 |
| javispedro | on the x86 target, libgles2-dev is on extras-devel . | 23:50 |
| Stargazers | valdyn: Any idea how I can restart it | 23:50 |
| woglinde | if I remember I have subscribe and get a personal deb line | 23:50 |
| valdyn | Stargazers: that was just a wild guess: but you can try anyway: killall matchbox ( and if that does not give an error ), start it again, run "matchbox" | 23:51 |
| valdyn | Stargazers: and if killall doesnt exist you need to use "kill <pid>" | 23:51 |
| Stargazers | Well there is no process matchbox | 23:51 |
| Stargazers | And not found in grep in ps | 23:51 |
| valdyn | Stargazers: bad luck, maybe thats just matchbox in maemo 4 | 23:51 |
| Stargazers | Well, yeah | 23:51 |
| Xisdibik | SpeedEvil: that is a good deal | 23:51 |
| Stargazers | Hmm have to look then what it could be | 23:52 |
| naxxatoe | any good devs around that want to work on a cool piece of software for the n900 with me (i am bad ad graphical stuff and i have a really awsome idea) | 23:52 |
| Stargazers | WTF :D | 23:52 |
| Stargazers | Now it is rsponding again | 23:52 |
| Stargazers | Just wait, wait and wait more | 23:53 |
| Stargazers | LOL | 23:53 |
| naxxatoe | lol ;) | 23:53 |
| Stargazers | Well now I can continue movie o/ | 23:53 |
| jebba | waz the good idea naxxatoe ? | 23:53 |
| Stargazers | That TV-out rocks too! | 23:53 |
| Stargazers | But thanks for help, see ya! :) | 23:53 |
| woglinde | hm ah javis -> http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation | 23:53 |
| naxxatoe | basically a finance/budget management tool | 23:53 |
| woglinde | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php | 23:53 |
| Stargazers | -> | 23:53 |
| javispedro | woglinde: if you can boot the user interface, you have the nokia repos correctly installed | 23:54 |
| naxxatoe | to track your expenses, the problem with computer based solutions is that they are really uncomfortable to use | 23:54 |
| naxxatoe | and the ones that exist on linux so far are made for ppl with background in accounting | 23:54 |
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| woglinde | javis I use sdk+ | 23:54 |
| naxxatoe | i have a ueber cool idea on how that should function, and what it needs to look like | 23:54 |
| javispedro | shouldn't matter. | 23:54 |
| naxxatoe | to be easy to use for everyone and still very practial and good | 23:55 |
| woglinde | it matters | 23:55 |
| woglinde | because fremantle minimal has not this line | 23:55 |
| woglinde | but now its okay | 23:55 |
| paroneayea | Xisdibik: figured out why, called customer service and apparently they hadn't set the "smartphone" field for us in their database | 23:56 |
| paroneayea | at least, thankfully, that wasn't any additional charge for them to do | 23:56 |
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| naxxatoe | jebba: get the idea? | 23:56 |
| jebba | 1 sec | 23:56 |
| jebba | ah ya. I'm not so concerned about tracking money tho! heh. good luck tho :) | 23:57 |
| naxxatoe | neather am i, but just because i dont need something really hard, ususally doesnt stop me from building good stuff | 23:57 |
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| woglinde | hrms no libmagick++ yet | 23:58 |
| woglinde | okay next debian package | 23:58 |
| naxxatoe | its just that my skills in writing user interfaces suck, vs my skills in high performance computing beeing great, and imagining on how it looks like on paper is great aswell | 23:58 |
| woglinde | to build | 23:58 |
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| naxxatoe | for example, me and a friend built a presentation tool for linux called douf00, userinterface design by me, background magic was half of my thing, and the graphical stuff was his ;) | 23:59 |
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