IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-12-02

lcukcrashanddie, craigslist00:02
aSIMULAtorso i wonder how many phones ended up in people's hands fuckuked to begin with00:03
lcuki dunno aSIMULAtor but its troubling00:03
aSIMULAtoryes and it's embarassing00:03
aSIMULAtorespecially since one of my friends ended up with a bricked phone00:04
kynkynuknuk made him self noticed on tmo00:04
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rangeThat's one way to say it.00:05
Stskeepsstill curious regarding if the reboot issue is SW or HW00:05
DangerMausKlowner, anything?   ohwell im dead tired cya 2marrow00:06
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brian946crashanddie:  do you happen to have opendns's ip handy?00:06
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lcukStskeeps, reboot could be many many things00:08
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Stskeepslcuk: yeah but wd reboots are usually not good00:08
lcukno agreed00:08
timeless_mbpflasher 3.5 is available from
* lcuk charges batteries and gets ready to push to autobuilder00:09
Stskeepslcuk: i've been hard pressed to make my n8x0 wd reboot :P00:09
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lcukid be hard pressed to make n810 reboot at all00:09
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AakashPatelgot my n90000:09
lcuk:D w00t!00:09
AakashPatelis there anyway to get my google contacts to hear?00:10
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w00tAakashPatel: what country?00:10
AakashPatelsync em00:10
AakashPatelw00t: US to the A00:10
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w00toh, ok, irrelevant00:10
qwerty12_N900w00t: Don't worry: There's tons of people from the UK who have one00:11
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brian946crashanddie: opendns fixed the problem!00:11
Stskeepsthere's a conspiracy to keep w00t from getting his n90000:11
w00tqwerty12_N900: I am going to murder you slowly and painfully00:11
qwerty12_N900Led by Stskeeps00:11
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lcukis w00t still waiting for his w00t momnt00:11
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* SpeedEvil wonders when his proper screen protector will arrive.00:11
lcukand if he does have it will anyone notice00:11
w00tlcuk: yes :-/00:12
SpeedEvilCurrently I have cling-film taped on the display.00:12
w00tSpeedEvil: hahaha.00:12
fnordianslipbrian946: opendns fixed the repo problem?00:12
qwerty12_N900w00t: Do I get fries with that?00:12
AakashPatelany info on syncin?00:12
w00tqwerty12_N900: do you get fried? yes00:12
lcukSpeedEvil, inventive00:12
AakashPatelor only thing to do is download the contacts file and import it00:12
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brian946fnordianslip: i think it did...not 100%00:12
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SpeedEvillcuk: It actually sticks OK - getting it wrinkle free is hard though00:12
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w00tI really do hope mine arrives this week, otherwise it's going to be wait until it's on O2 contract time00:13
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fnordianslipbrian946  hmm.  i went to my ISPs upstream DNS instead of a dnsmasq on my LAN and that fixed it for me two00:13
fnordiansliptoo, even00:14
brian946fnordianslip: i can do an apt-get update... and the other https repo work fine00:14
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brian946fnordianslip: awesome00:15
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fnordianslipbrian946: yep, it was the causing my problems00:15
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brian946fnordianslip: now apt-get complains about "No hash entry" for extras-devel00:16
fnordianslipbrian946: it worked ok over cellular but not on my home LAN.00:16
fnordianslipbrian946:  different problem00:16
brian946fnordianslip: ok...i'm just trying over the lan too00:16
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mashiaraflandry: any preference/suggestion on file transfer service ?00:17
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fnordianslipbrian946: i mean the dns prob wasn't on the cell network.  extras-devel problem seems urelated00:17
mashiaraI have a joydev.ko that inserts to stock kernel for you00:17
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mashiarahow to make a nice .deb is left as an exercise to the reader00:17
Flandrywow that's wonderful00:17
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Flandryum tgz and email?00:18
brian946fnordianslip: i agree00:18
Flandryit's small i assume00:18
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mashiarabut I don't have any email accounts set up on the VM...00:18
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Flandrymy server died last month so i'm rather limited in options00:18
* mashiara is too tired...00:19
mashiarayour email ?00:19
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Flandrydavidfalkayn  gmail00:20
AakashPatelcan i import a cvs contacts file00:20
lardmannight all00:20
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Flandrybye lardman|gone00:21
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AakashPatelanyone got any info on contacts? :/00:24
Venomrushgot managed to get hold of service manual level 3 + 400:25
Venomrushgetting the schematics sometime end of the week00:25
Venomrushthanks to Moz00:25
mashiaraflandry: sent, also again with how I made it00:25
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Flandryreceived, and thank you very much00:26
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FlandryHow would you like to be credited in the changelog?00:27
mashiarathis is exactly the same way I have tried building the nf_conntrack et co for the stock kernel, but they just won't work...00:27
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Flandryhmm that is weird00:27
Flandrymaybe start fresh and set it all up from scratch and you'll realize where it went wrong00:28
mashiarabeen there, done that00:28
mashiaramany times...00:28
mashiarafrom same build as the conntrack et co for example msdos.ko does work00:29
mashiaraso it's not something in the build process itself00:29
jebbajebwow, that's quite a bit of space for a device with only 256M:00:29
jebbajeb20.8M Dec  1 19:22 /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache00:29
Flandryyeah it is00:29
Stskeepsjebbajeb: but compared to the amount of performance improvement..00:29
Flandryit's also a high-volume bit of data00:30
mashiaraanyways, now I go to sleep. good night everyone00:30
AakashPatelanyone D:00:30
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jebbajebStskeeps: just trying to track down fatness as I'm back at 99% full on /  ;)    (even after reboot....)00:31
Stskeepsah :P00:32
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jebbajebwould be nice if /home/user was encrypted.  I mean if you lose your fone, you are pretty hosed.00:34
Stskeepsjebbajeb: yeah but you would need to encrypt swap, /home and /opt too ..00:35
Stskeepsand then performance starts going downhill00:35
SpeedEvilStskeeps: doubtful.00:35
StskeepsSpeedEvil: attack vector: your own kernel booting from ext sd.00:36
SpeedEvilStskeeps: I would guess hte encryption speed at >10M/s - even assuming there is no encryption hardware00:36
SpeedEvilmeh - no crypto modules for kernel00:36
AakashPatelDoes nokia pc suite support osx?00:37
GeneralAntillesActually, OMAP3 should be able to accelerate crypto.00:37
GeneralAntillesAakashPatel, ha.00:37
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GeneralAntillesVMWare. ;)00:37
jebbajebStskeeps: i was thinking something along the lines of LUKS, just for user data, not for applications00:37
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AakashPatelGeneralAntilles: Lol is there a way to sync/import my google contacts to this thing?00:38
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: IIRC, you were anti-MIPS to some degree... what makes ARM better than MIPS? from what I've seen, ARM uses 4x the power than MIPS does in practice00:38
jebbajeblike just /home/user/MyDocs  (not swap nor /opt)00:38
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SpeedEvilWell -  time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=102400 |md5sum -00:38
SpeedEvilcompletes in 3s - which is 30 meg a second00:38
jebbajeb*  "sync"00:38
SpeedEvilAnd aes should be same order of magnitude as md500:38
AakashPateljebbajeb: lol what00:39
Venomrushhmm i love service manuals00:39
Venomrushthose troubleshooting flows really help00:39
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, it's also got significantly better performance.00:39
GeneralAntillesand more support from the big mobile players.00:39
jebbajebAakashPatel:   ?00:39
AakashPatelyou said somethin about sync00:39
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: i c00:39
AakashPatelyou werent talkin to me00:39
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, they're both better than x86, but given a choice between MIPS and ARM I'd definitely go with ARM.00:39
jebbajebah,   do dd  then the sync... the sync will take longer me supposes00:39
GeneralAntillesIt's not that I'm /anti/-MIPS, it's just wouldn't be my architecture of choice.00:40
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luke-jrGeneralAntilles: well, I'm mainly thinking for a router at the moment, and OpenRD-Client uses 20 W vs RouterBoard at 3-5 W00:41
jebbajebif one just does a `reboot` or `shutdown now -r` instead of doing the poweroff in the menu, is it ok/clean?00:41
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tbfluke-jr: quite wasteful00:42
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, don't have any real experience with non-brick'n'mortar network hardware.00:43
SpeedEvilOk. Kernel can do AES - but cryptoloop doesn't seem to be there00:43
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jebbajebSpeedEvil: what about things like cryptsetup  / LUKS?00:44
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yannj__I am tring to read a rtsp flow, I manage to get it from gst-launch with uridecodebin, but when trying with the link in maemo browser (the link is on a webpage) it launches mediaplayer and fails, is there a way to launch mediaplayer directly with the URI00:44
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jebbajebSpeedEvil: i thought cryptoloop was long ago deprecated00:44
tbfluke-jr: unless i am totally off the n900 is somewhere around 0.5..4W depending on load (well, or i am just too tired)00:44
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luke-jrtbf: N900 is also far more expensive than I'm buying for a router ;)00:46
luke-jrand lacks Ethernet00:46
VDVsxgrrr extras-devel is broken again :(00:46
jebbajebVDVsx: how? I'm using it ok00:47
StskeepsVDVsx: beat someone?00:47
tbfluke-jr: well, therefore it has wlan, 3g, bluetooth00:47
SpeedEviljebbajeb: meh00:47
tbfluke-jr: well, but i am quite clueless when it comes to hardware00:48
tbfluke-jr: regularly wonder if should it consider offensive that i have to flash my n900 myself :-D00:48
VDVsxjeanjean, really ? I'm getting the "hash bla bla" error00:48
tbfluke-jr: just wanted to point out that ARM isn't wasteful by definition00:48
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luke-jrtbf: IMO, devices should come blank and require flashing :)00:50
lcukluke-jr, devices should come up with a menu on install, "maemo symbian, other"00:52
lcuk^ m00:52
lcuk^ , even00:52
microlithluke-jr: people like to actually use their devices00:52
AakashPatellawl i got gmail sycing with active sync with my phone00:52
luke-jractually, better yet00:52
VDVsxlcuk, maemo, symbian, liqbase, canola, other :D00:53
luke-jrVendor can produce a quality piece of hardware, then hold a contest for software00:53
tbfluke-jr: didn't talk as customer, talked as developer who has to flash one or two times a week ;-)00:53
luke-jrwinner gets the software development budget00:53
lcukliqos and canolos00:53
lcukluke-jr, errr isnt it a bit late00:54
lcukafter the stuff has been made00:54
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: My last phone did00:54
SpeedEvilluke-jr: (kernel only, which panicked due to no FS)00:54
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* lcuk throws gimp across the room00:56
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KlownerI got it! yaaaaaaay01:00
ShapeshifterDoes someone know a text-to-speech lib that is already ported to ARM and available in the repos?01:01
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MouseyHAIL ERIS!01:01
Mouseyflite and espeak, ne?01:02
Mouseyi drove a fnord for a while.. had to sell it. the windows kept breaking01:02
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Mousey...out into song!01:02
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil, Mousey, thanks01:02
fnordianslippersi had a pc for a bit and the windows kept breaking. coincidence?01:03
Mouseyi think about knots01:03
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fnordianslippersi think about the game, and i don't even play it01:04
* Mousey goes back to not eating hot dogs01:04
Mousey...well the buns, anyway01:04
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fnordianslippersthey're ok if you have 501:05
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* fnordianslippers installs anarchism on his n90001:09
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Shapeshiftermh. I'm bored with the app I'm coding. I don't think anyone will use it, including myself.01:27
ShapeshifterAny suggestions what to code?01:27
luke-jrShapeshifter: you can help write an IRC bot01:27
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* SpeedEvil ponders.01:27
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: A quassel port?01:27
Shapeshifterluke-jr: why? supybot is good enough.01:27
SpeedEvilwith a n900 frontend?01:27
luke-jrShapeshifter: Supybot is utterly void of any intelligence01:28
Firebirdyou could help test/add ogles2/0 to libsdl1.3 for me01:28
mikhasShadowJK, go to t.m.o and search for app requests?01:28
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: way to encrypt /home ?01:28
lcukShapeshifter, what are you building atm01:29
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Shapeshiftermhh, not interested. Oh, I know something. Maybe a tool and service to easily set up theft-protection, i.e. sending of GPS coordinates by SMS/internet/anything available + sending pictures made with the front cam.01:29
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Shapeshifterlcuk: a calendar app. It's quite nifty I think, but only for very specific usage patterns.01:30
luke-jrShapeshifter: that's an idea01:30
FirebirdI think by the time the GPS locks the thief would have taken the battery out01:30
lcukand would you know at the maemo long weekend my calendar is gettin looked at01:30
GeneralAntillesOh, rcadden.01:30
luke-jrShapeshifter: make sure it uses minimum bandwidth normally. like, one TCP connection when it boots, and pings/checks every hour with 1 byte01:30
luke-jrFirebird: thiefs are mostly stupid01:31
* hardaker hates the fact that the calendar app can't do a simple "first monday of the month" repeat. sigh.01:31
lcukno, criminals are refined01:31
luke-jrlcuk: the elite few01:31
lcukthey will steal a device with the single intention of building gentoo linux on them01:31
lcukits not worth stealing if its not open01:31
luke-jrFirebird: be sure to demand NOLO source from Nokia to prevent flashing over the security ;)01:32
Shapeshifterlcuk: I originally started writing it for my laptop, not maemo, that's why it's not hildonized yet. I'm currently optimizing it as an option to suit maemo.01:32
luke-jrif you're really crafty, you can have your replacement NOLO emulate a successful flash while infecting the new image...01:32
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Shapeshifterthe features aren't apparent, but it does things like:01:33
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lcuklooks like time reporting tool, was thursday your busy day?01:34
Shapeshifter1. the checker style thing in the top left; if you click-hover the mouse the week below changes dynamically. very easy to browse a whole year within seconds. 2. day with events are highlighted. 3. optional zoom function on the "microcal" thingy in the top left. tries to understand any input and translates it. e.g. you enter 900 1120 something and it will reformat to 09:00 11:20 - something. supports recurring events, inifite, counting up ...01:34
Shapeshifter... (bdays?), or counting down (deadlines?)01:34
joerg_rwMediaplayer doesn't sense headset holdbutton on N900?01:35
Shapeshifterlcuk: nah in the end every day has the same amount of space. that just because it's a bit cramped on maemo. as I said I'm working on it. But I got a bit bored. I wouldn't even use it myself. I think. The point is that I don't really get the point of those calendars like google calendar where you have huuge bars that stretch over the hours and especially on the n900 you have to scroll around the screen to see all events01:35
luke-jrShapeshifter: looks too difficult to touch accurately01:36
PolarFoxI think I have to order an expert to install my Maemo development enviroment :D01:36
luke-jrShapeshifter: I have an interesting calendar "app"01:36
Shapeshifterluke-jr: yep. that's why I implemented zooming on the widget at the top left. but I clearly made it with the desktop in mind. I imagine it is impossible to use on maemo.01:36
PolarFoxI've wasted like 10 hours and I still cannot get ANYTHING to run :)01:36
lcukShapeshifter, 30 second overview01:37
Flandryuse a virtual machine image01:37
mikhasand the UI installer01:37
lcukPolarFox, :( i feel your pain01:37
lcukonce i discovered the GUI installer on a clean ubuntu tho i was happy01:37
Shapeshifterlcuk: that's nice :) can it sync with google? or import .ics?01:38
tbfShapeshifter: already was going to ask if you'll ship a pair of glasses with that app :-D01:38
tbfbut not hildonized - ok01:38
lcukgoogle and ics dont support the human touch01:38
Shapeshifterlcuk: well, for those events they could just be pasted on screen. just for "importing"01:38
Shapeshifternot syncing back.01:38
lcukit will howevereventually sync with the calendar on my kitchen wall01:38
lcukpasted on screen?01:39
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joerg_rwNybody share a pointer or advice where to get xchat maemo5 please01:39
Shapeshifterbut, importing events from google/caldav would be quite useful. Well, I mean just put them there, somewhere in the area where you can also handwrite on01:39
Shapeshifterlcuk: do you have released the source?01:39
lcukit will be totally standalone though in about 2 hours01:40
lcukits embedded in playground atm01:40
lcukim just pulling it out as we speak01:40
lcukso people can just install the calendar01:40
joerg_rwLcuk I seem to have extrasfdevel01:40
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joerg_rwCan't find it01:40
Shapeshifterlcuk: ah okay.01:40
PolarFoxlcuk: maybe I should install jaunty on a virtualbox machine and try out the GUI installer..01:41
Shapeshifterlcuk: what is it written in, and what toolkit?01:41
lcukPolarFox, if you are making a vm just grab the entire vm image01:41
lcukShapeshifter, its in c, and is totally ground up code01:41
lcukno existing toolkit was used01:41
Shapeshifterohh okay01:41
PolarFoxlcuk: It's a huge download .. and with my luck, it's already old :)01:41
mikhasit isnt01:41
lcukShapeshifter, the rendering engine portion and a quick run through of some bits01:42
PolarFoxlcuk: I'm going VM since my tries with 64bit OS ended with pain.. :)01:42
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lcukPolarFox, i also feel your pain01:42
joerg_rwAnyway, youtube plays fine on N90001:43
luke-jrShapeshifter: disclaimer: requires a half decent SVG viewer01:43
lcukluke-jr, that looks like other calendaring apps ive written in the past01:43
tbfcan someone translate "mick out of customers" please?01:43
tbfi hate it getting called words in slang01:44
mavhcas in take the mick?01:44
luke-jrlcuk: seriously? I wrote it cuz I couldn't find anything to do it01:44
lcukluke-jr, why does someone miss hygiene on thursday and friday01:44
PolarFoxWell I'm going to sleep.. maybe fourth night with this "Kit" will solve the problem.01:45
lcukluke-jr, could drag and edit and adjust things as required01:45
Shapeshifterlcuk: that is brilliant01:45
fnordianslipperstbf: it's polite for "piss"01:45
PolarFoxBTW. Why is that image so huuuge? :)01:45
* lcuk nods :)01:45
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luke-jrlcuk: how about non-rectagular polygons? ;)01:46
luke-jrPolarFox: what image?01:46
Shapeshifterlcuk: what kind of accent is that btw?01:46
lcukluke-jr, ahh you see01:46
lcukthats multiple individual columns01:46
ShapeshifterI see.01:46
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PolarFoxluke-jr: that ESBox VM image01:46
lcukwith a bit of trickery as to which border to show01:46
lcuki even had the autosizing algorithm for the text within01:47
lcukdidnt go downwards tho01:47
PolarFoxmaemovmware or something like that01:47
luke-jrlcuk: should have published it? :p01:47
lcukpart of a different life01:47
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lcuki have to reimplement anything i do01:48
lcuk(closed source vb project a few years ago for old job)01:48
tbffnordianslippers: awesome. calling apple users "fans" is "pissing them"01:48
tbfawesome guys01:48
lcukluke-jr, i have all the test projects that i did for the pieces, holdon lemme see if i can find01:49
luke-jrlcuk: the difficult part remaining would be to make the text flow within the polygon01:50
luke-jrrather than treating the bounding rectangle01:50
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lcuktake widest contigious piece01:50
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fnordianslipperstbf: not quite. taking the piss means to make fun of them01:51
luke-jrlcuk: that doesn't do it01:51
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lcuk(the content is results of a codegen)01:51
luke-jrlcuk: all of those are rectangles01:51
lcuktake the u shaped "lunch" one01:52
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luke-jractually, for "Lunch", the ideal would be just making sure the "L" and "h" are in the tall regions ;)01:52
luke-jrbut it's a unique case01:52
lcukyou have an island made up from 3 columns01:52
lcukthe text has to realistically sit i nthe lower half01:53
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lcukbut thats an optimization on hte rendering layer01:53
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luke-jrlcuk: for example, take Breakfast ;)01:53
lcukcos you can happily say lunch in each column01:53
lcukwlel that looks silly01:53
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luke-jrI like to sleep in when I can01:54
lcukif its something like that, perhaps a background layer with shaded region would be better01:54
lcuki do like the ZZzs01:55
lcukcould get nice effect just using a tiled ttexture image01:55
luke-jrthose only work in Inkscape and Firefox <.<01:55
lcukinfact, thats how you could do all those standard ones01:55
lcukfor sleep and breakfast and everything01:55
luke-jrPrep Food could use line-splitting :p01:56
lcukwhy does C not have any lunch on thursday01:56
luke-jrlcuk: the public SVG is filtered for privacy :)01:57
lcuktop secret thursday?01:57
luke-jrand Wednesday01:57
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luke-jrI am L01:58
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lcukno shit!01:58
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lcukare these actual times you do things or expected01:58
luke-jrlcuk: expected01:58
lcukthats quite cool overal01:59
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luke-jrlcuk: your dragging thing would be cooler tho ;)02:00
luke-jrmine is just a Perl script to convert event files into SVG02:01
luke-jrand not very efficient with the algorithm02:01
lcukat the barcamps ive been to recently, the trackshave been entered into a big grid02:01
lcukthey use pen and paper!02:01
luke-jrit literally plots events per minute and traces the shapes02:01
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lcukthat dataset is entirely possible to run in realtime02:01
lcukits not that complex02:01
luke-jrwell, actually, slightly different from that...02:01
luke-jrit traces the shapes, and for each "pixel" it calls a function to get the value02:02
luke-jrat that time, the function looks at all the events to see which match it ;)02:02
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lcukid just grad the stuff from the database in ascending order and start from there02:02
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lcuki need to go beat the shit out of new package, bbiab02:03
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toggles_wso i was thinking about starting a conversation here about n900's and bluetooh keyboards..02:06
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Arkenoiwhy does "mirror" application show such a distorted noisy picture?02:09
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SpeedEvilArkenoi: camera is shit02:11
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simulai haven't done a great deal with the camera, but it doesn't seem so bad to me02:12
Arkenoi*that* shit? looks like it is almost non-working02:13
SpeedEvilDo yuou have pre-release hardware?02:13
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simulai haven't used the mirror app though02:13
simulanawp, release hardware02:13
DocScrutinizerAnd I thought the classic mirror app is setting screen to black XD02:13
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Docscrutinizer51Grr pidgin02:14
Docscrutinizer51Omg at least better name now02:15
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Arkenoispeedevil, nope, it is "not for sale", but i have "n900" logo on the device02:16
Arkenoiso i guess it is the final version02:17
AakashPatelis tehre video chatting on google talk?02:17
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tbfAakashPatel: on the n900? disabled for too many serious bugs, but the rtcom staff is working hard on getting it running02:19
Arkenoi(tried to capture an screenshot of mirror app, but no luck for obvious reason)02:20
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mikhasAakashPatel, did you try a skype video chat?02:24
VenomrushNokia N900 Stress Test
Venomrushmore like Scratch Test02:24
AakashPatelmikhas: the default skype integration has video chat?02:24
Venomrushapparently it scratches pretty easy02:24
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mikhasAakashPatel, cant say. but it came up on some time ago. Havent tried myself yet =)02:26
AakashPatelill try it in a few mins lol02:26
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mikhasVenomrush, that's sick02:28
mikhasI couldnt watch to the end02:28
luke-jrnice, someone I know just turned down a job because they use glib :)02:28
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Shapeshiftermhh, I was thinking about writing a videocalling solution. Am I bound to fail?02:31
Shapeshiftera really simple one. Just because I'm sick of skype and sip is broken anyway.02:32
Shapeshifterjust for me and my girlfriend if it has to be.02:32
luke-jrwhy not just use XMPP w/ the default stuff?02:32
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Shapeshiftermh xmpp does videocalling? huh. how did I miss that.02:32
Arkenoiwhat's wrong with sip?02:34
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SpeedEvilShapeshifter: with vibrator support?02:35
ShapeshifterArkenoi: it's incredibly broken, and all clients suck.02:35
ArkenoiVenomrush, he talks too much ;-)02:35
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: hah.02:35
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greenflyscreen -dr02:35
* Arkenoi is quite satisified with sip. never tried video, though02:35
ShapeshifterArkenoi: ah. well audio ain't that bad with sip.02:36
tbfSpeedEvil: signup at facebook and get a date :-D :-p02:36
luke-jrMy N810 works with SIP if I'm on the LAN, but not if it has to go through NAT02:36
luke-jrand unfortunately, my PBX is Asterisk whcih doesn't support IPv602:36
luke-jrSIP would probably work fine if people weren't screwing with packetflow02:37
ccookeit all depends on which SIP transport you use...02:38
luke-jryou mean other than RTP?02:38
ccookeluke-jr: sip can use tcp or udp transports02:38
ccookeand a couple of different kinds of tunnelling02:38
luke-jrI'm not sure TCP vs UDP is the problem at all02:39
ccookeudp is good for nat traversal02:39
luke-jrtunnelling is just lame02:39
luke-jrTCP is far better than UDP for getting by NATs02:39
AakashPatelhow do you get into skype on the device??02:39
AakashPateli logged in through settings02:39
luke-jrAakashPatel: Skype sucks.02:39
AakashPateli want video chat :(02:40
ccookeActually, no. UDP with a central server or predefined endpoints is vastly superior to TCP for nat traversal.02:40
luke-jrAakashPatel: use XMPP like a real man02:40
Arkenoiwill there ever be SRTP?02:40
AakashPatelI use Google Talk usually02:40
AakashPatelluke-jr: Just wanted to try out the video chatting on it02:40
luke-jrAakashPatel: Google Talk should work fine with Nxx002:40
Robot101Shapeshifter: the Telepathy framework on the device supports XMPP (and Google Video) video calls02:40
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ShapeshifterRobot101: nice.02:41
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Robot101Arkenoi: we're working on SRTP in the stack atm02:41
AakashPatelhow do i do it lol02:41
luke-jrAakashPatel: click the phone icon before you dial02:42
luke-jrit enables the camera02:42
luke-jrat least that's how it was on Maemo 402:42
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Robot101Arkenoi: but it's not likely to be supported officially - it might be possible for us to put some of it on for keen people to update :)02:42
AakashPatelhmm it is only if you have a skype nubmer?02:43
* AakashPatel isnt familar with skype anyways02:43
Arkenoirobot101: that would be great! first "crypto phone out of the box". well, almost that ;-)02:44
mikhasAakashPatel, you can register a test account and get some minutes for free02:44
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Shapeshifterluke-jr: can you recommend an XMPP client that does video for linux?02:46
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luke-jrShapeshifter: no.02:46
Robot101Shapeshifter: empathy, using the same telepathy framework02:46
luke-jrShapeshifter: Psi supposedly supports it, but requires gstreamer :/02:46
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ShapeshifterRobot101: I don't like empathy.02:47
luke-jrand I refuse to use g*02:47
Robot101luke-jr: maemo uses quite a lot of it... :P02:47
luke-jrRobot101: I don't use Maemo02:47
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Robot101sorry, rash assumption of me, its not like we're in #maemo or anything :P02:48
mikhasempathy is a great IM client anway, no reasons to not have it on your desktop =p02:48
luke-jrmikhas: it's g* even though it doesn't match literally02:48
luke-jrthat alone is reason enough02:48
Shapeshifterluke-jr: you don't like gstreamer?02:48
mikhasyou hate gst?02:48
Shapeshifterwhy not?02:48
Robot101Shapeshifter: well... cool. why?02:48
luke-jrShapeshifter: it's g*02:48
mikhasyou must hate a lot of things then02:49
ShapeshifterRobot101: I don't remember actually. I had it installed just 3 weeks ago and tried out everything but for some reason I went "meh" and continued using pidgin.02:49
Robot101thanks, I'll pass that on to the guys in the office :P02:49
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Shapeshifterluke-jr: no but gstreamer really is useful.02:50
luke-jrShapeshifter: to me, things like gstreamer are a waste anyway02:50
luke-jrALSA works just fine02:50
Shapeshifterewww alsa02:50
mikhasluke-jr, ever tried to stream video with alsa?02:50
Robot101luke-jr: these two things are not alike02:50
Shapeshifteralsa needs to die02:50
Robot101luke-jr: I don't like living in a house, I have a teapot02:50
luke-jrmikhas: nope, that's what something like mplayer is for02:50
Shapeshifterlong live OSS02:50
luke-jrRobot101: then gstreamer shouldn't fight ALSA02:51
Robot101it doesn't02:51
Robot101it uses alsa to access the hardware... thats why it has alsa plugins02:51
luke-jrit doesn't lock the device when silent?02:51
luke-jrpreventing other ALSA apps from playing sound02:51
Robot101its a library, it doesn't "do" anything you don't ask it to02:51
mikhasfilter graphs are a necessity for so many application that it is a bit silly to be against gst =)02:51
AakashPatelpsh feck this02:51
AakashPateli have to buy a number02:52
luke-jrAakashPatel: wtf?02:52
Robot101any alsa application can block any other alsa application from playing sound, thats why stuff like pulseaudio exists.02:52
AakashPatelskype is a ftl02:52
luke-jrmikhas: if gst wants me to use it, they need to stop depending on libglib02:52
Shapeshifterpulse.... oh no02:52
luke-jrRobot101: not true, by default ALSA will mix audio streams02:52
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Robot101luke-jr: by default, no it won't. you need to configure it to. and even if you did, gstreamer would still work fine.02:53
luke-jrand even if you disable that for some reason, usually things don't lock it when not in use02:53
AakashPatelnow, waht was taht other way to video chat with google talk?02:53
luke-jrRobot101: yes it does...02:53
Shapeshifterfor gods sake if you'd just use OSS everything would be brilliant02:53
Shapeshifterit mixes perfectly02:53
luke-jrOSS never mixed for me02:53
Shapeshifterluke-jr: how can oss not mix.02:54
Shapeshifteryou just send stuff to /dev/dsp and it does the rest.02:54
Robot101it doesn't mix02:54
luke-jrShapeshifter: if you open /dev/dsp, nothing else can until you close it02:54
Robot101and, OSS sucks02:54
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Shapeshifterand it gives you brilliant control over hardware.02:54
Robot101ALSA is more complicated but thats the reality of things02:54
Shapeshifterluke-jr: oh sorry, I mean mix002:55
luke-jrwtf is mix002:55
Robot101anyway, whatever. off topic for here, I don't care what you think of alsa or gstreamer if you're wrong. :P02:55
Shapeshifteross' mixer device.02:55
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Shapeshifterbut meh.02:55
luke-jrRobot101: am I wrong? gstreamer *doesn't* depend on libglib?02:55
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Shapeshifteralsa doesn't mix at all. you need shitty pulse as another layer02:55
luke-jrShapeshifter: nonsense02:56
SpeedEvilt-mobile PAYG02:56
tbfluke-jr: if you refuse to use g*, you instantly must stop using Qt!02:56
SpeedEvilFair-use 1G/mo02:56
luke-jrtbf: no02:56
SpeedEvil20 quid for 6 months!!!02:56
tbfluke-jr: as its main loop has some gmainloop integration02:56
luke-jrSpeedEvil: wtf?02:56
luke-jrtbf: not mine02:56
luke-jrUSE=-glib kthx02:56
Shapeshifterluke-jr: well, maybe we're just cross-unlucky. I all know is I block all alsa kernel modules, run oss as a daemon and bang every single app on my machine mixes.02:56
tbfluke-jr: quite stupid02:56
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: 6 month internet plus booster02:57
tbfluke-jr: as this prevents you to reuse libraries using dbus-glib internally02:57
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luke-jrShapeshifter: beginning with 1.0.9rc2, Dmix is enabled by default02:57
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luke-jrtbf: good, I don't want such on my system anyway02:57
luke-jrtbf: I have libglib masked02:57
Shapeshifterluke-jr: for some reason, alsa failed me on 3 boxes.02:58
luke-jrso it will never be installed02:58
tbfluke-jr: F***! you use >>>G<<<entoo102:58
tbfluke-jr: it starts with "G"! :-D02:58
mikhasbut he dislikes it =p02:58
luke-jrtbf: Gentoo doesn't match g*02:58
* SpeedEvil may not bother trying to work out other internet.02:59
AakashPatelcan fring let me video chat w/o buyin mins?02:59
AakashPatellike from phone to computer02:59
luke-jrtbf: I am case sensitive. :D02:59
mikhasfine, let's rename glib to ... wait for it ... Glib >=)03:00
luke-jrit will still be g*!03:00
tbfluke-jr: not sure if little penguins deserve a big "G" :-D03:00
* mikhas stops now03:00
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luke-jrtbf: the moment HURD surpasses Linux in functionality and reliability, I will switch03:01
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AakashPatelHey which version of fring do i use for the n900?03:02
luke-jrwtf is fring03:03
GeneralAntillesAakashPatel, none, Fring sucks.03:03
AakashPatelthats shit03:03
AakashPatelidk what else to do lol03:03
AakashPatelthats easy03:03
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GeneralAntillesThey installed the SDK repo in a .install in Diablo.03:03
GeneralAntillesI can't ever forgive them for the pain that caused.03:03
AakashPatelGeneralAntilles: help me figure out how i can video chat in gtalk or skype free then lol03:04
Robot101AakashPatel: the device doesn't support video call atm03:04
* AakashPatel keels over03:04
tbfluke-jr: i've heard rumour maemo7 would use hurd03:05
luke-jrtbf: I think you just fabricated that rumour.03:05
Robot101it has the hardware but not all the software bits03:05
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tbfluke-jr: damn. you are the better troll.03:05
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* tbf raises white flag03:06
Robot101tbf: I heard about Nokia evaluating NetBSD though... :)03:06
AakashPatelhm how do i install xchat on this baby03:07
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luke-jrRobot101: crap, I don't know if you're serious or not.03:07
luke-jrAakashPatel: X-Chat sucks.03:07
AakashPatelhaha everything sucks03:07
AakashPatelwhat do i use for IRC then03:07
luke-jrQuassel or Konversation of course03:07
derfDon't listen to that fool.03:08
luke-jrirssi is g*03:08
GeneralAntillesAakashPatel, it's still in Extras-devel.03:08
derfFolos don't get an opinion, sool.03:08
AakashPatelluke-jr: what do you use :)03:09
luke-jrAakashPatel: Konversation usually03:09
Robot101AakashPatel: don't ask luke-jr's advice on software to run on maemo, he doesn't use it.03:10
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Robot101AakashPatel: he's just here as some light entertainment03:10
luke-jrdoesn't Maemo have its own IRC?03:10
AakashPatelI thought you had an N90003:10
luke-jrAakashPatel: no, I have a N810, but it doesn't run Maemo03:11
Robot101you can install telepathy-idle to support IRC, but the built-in conversations doesn't support multi-user chats yet so its not too useful03:11
AakashPatelGeneralAntilles: Okay, just got my n900 today, how do i brows "extras-devel"03:11
luke-jrRobot101: seriously? that's STILL missing in Maemo 5?03:11
infobotit has been said that extras is
joerg_rw2Lucke-jr: you might use CP transport which probably would work over NAT03:12
luke-jrjoerg_rw2: wtf is that? it's no longer really SIP at that point03:13
AakashPatelI search titles and descriptions for "IRC"03:15
AakashPatelno results03:15
GeneralAntillesAakashPatel, add the repository to the application manager.03:16
AakashPateli enabled extras03:16
AakashPateloh wait, extras-devel is different?03:16
AakashPateli see03:16
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luke-jrextras-devel is "this is probably broken, don't try it"03:17
fchurcaHi people03:18
GeneralAntillesAakashPatel, the wiki link from infobot contains everything you need to know about the repos.03:18
arachnistluke-jr: with varying degrees of broken03:18
fchurcaI'm an engineering student from Argentina. Does anyone know when the N900 release will be here?03:18
luke-jrfchurca: yesterday03:19
AakashPatelwrong window03:19
GeneralAntillesAakashPatel, just don't leave that repo enabled.03:20
GeneralAntillesGet what you need and disable it.03:20
AakashPatelokay i will03:20
jebbajebAakashPatel: i saw an irc plugin for conversations in -testing iirc03:20
AakashPatelMessage extras-devel not avaiable on server"03:20
fchurcaluke-jr: most people "selling" the N900 here are unofficial importers. I was looking forward to an official release by Nokia or a service provider like Claro03:21
luke-jrfchurca: np, I was pulling that out of my butt03:21
fchurcaah hahaha03:21
AakashPatelGeneralAntilles: Is it normal for it to be down often?03:21
jebbajebfchurca: it's not even listed on nokia shop's argentina page yet, not even preorder...03:21
fchurcaHow much does the N900 cost around there? (wherever "there" is)03:22
jebbajebi got mine off mercadolibre....03:22
GeneralAntillesAakashPatel, lately, yes.03:22
AakashPatelI see :/03:22
luke-jrfchurca: $500 to $1000 depending on "there"03:22
jebbajebi'm using -devel repo fine right now fwiw.03:22
fchurcaluke-jr: Is that in USD?03:23
AakashPatelit added this time03:23
luke-jrfchurca: yeah03:23
fchurcaluke-jr: thx03:24
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AakashPatelyess xchat03:25
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fchurcaCan one develop in the n900? does it have gcc and an editor?03:25
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GeneralAntillesfchurca, you can install build-essential, yes.03:26
luke-jrfchurca: N900 is hardware. you mean Maemo 503:27
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fchurcaluke-jr: yes, you are correct. I mean the N900 out of the box with maemo03:27
fchurcaGeneralAntilles: how does it behave?03:27
GeneralAntillesArchanamiya, no botspam, please.03:28
fnordianslipGeneralAntilles: is build-essential and its deps optified?03:28
GeneralAntillesfchurca, fine, talk to lcuk, he does all of his dev work on the N90003:28
GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, no idea.03:28
* v2px_ sighs03:28
jebbajebi don't see gcc in any of the "stock" repos (-extras -testing -devel), but there's no reason it couldn't be added. Plenty of text editors.03:28
Archanamiya!stab infobot03:28
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luke-jrfchurca: I run Gentoo on my N810.03:29
fchurcaluke-jr: sweet03:29
fchurcaluke-jr: apart from debian and gentoo (and maemo), what else has been ported?03:30
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GeneralAntillesjebbajeb, SDK tools.03:30
arachnistfchurca: there was a port of android03:30
jebbajebGeneralAntilles: ?03:31
GeneralAntillesjebbajeb, it's in one of the SDK repos.03:31
fchurcaseems it'll be nice03:31
fchurcacan one do multiboot?03:31
jebbajebfchurca: yes03:32
fchurcait'll be nice indeed :D03:32
luke-jrfchurca: to a degree03:32
fchurcacan someone point me to the doc for that so i don't bother you through here?03:32
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fchurcajebbajeb: n900s on mercadolibre are way too expensive :S03:44
fchurcajebbajeb: I'll wait for an official release03:44
jebbajebya no kidding03:44
fchurcaeveryone: thanks for your time; i'm leaving03:45
fchurcasee you soon!03:45
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jebbajebhmm, could someone package up `less` pretty plz?03:52
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fnordianslippersjebbajeb: more is less04:01
jebbajebfnordianslippers: uh, yes, more certainly is less than less...  even after I wrote that I went straight to my terminal and typed `less xorg.conf`.  It's pretty ingrained in me.04:02
SpeedEvilerr - less is there04:03
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SpeedEvilapt-get install less04:04
SpeedEvilwell - after you've setup the right repos04:04
jebbajebSpeedEvil: which is the right repo in this case?04:04
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jebbajeb(don't see it in extras or extras-testing... I disabled -devel for now, i'll go see if it's there=04:06
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SpeedEvil /etc/apt/sources.list04:06
SpeedEvil# fremantle tools04:06
SpeedEvildeb fremantle/tools free non-free04:06
SpeedEvilI think04:06
jebbajebah cool thx, hadnt seen that repo.  amassing lots of info at the moment...04:07
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jebbajeba real `top` ps free df etc would be nice instead of busybox versions too04:08
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aspiditesi've done some research and i see that efforts are being made to have hildonized widgets in qt. does anyone know if they are coming to pyqt or pyside at all?04:15
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: they're fucking idiots04:18
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, agreed.04:27
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, no luck at all?04:27
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: oh, sorry, talking about the guys on tmo about the lawsuit04:27
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: buying the mbp in a few minutes, got the cash from an atm and gave it to a colleague04:27
GeneralAntillesHehe, sweet.04:27
GeneralAntillesGlossy or matte?04:28
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aspidites /join #ubuntu04:29
aspiditeserm.. oops04:29
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Sargun_Screenit works04:33
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Sargun_Screendoesm the n900 have a soft keyboard04:38
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jebbajebSargun_Screen: yes, but i haven't used it. I've seen reference to it in settings as a preferred keyboard or somesuch04:39
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BlastHello all... have a question... provided the N900 can vibrate... is there an API for that?04:39
* crashanddie imagines the creepiest thing "SOFT VIBRATOR"04:41
Flandryoh great. Another guy writing a vibrator app04:41
crashanddieI'm going to change the vibrator motor and connect a much more powerful motor (like a windscreen wiper or something)04:42
crashanddieThen I'm going to write an app for it. There will be three settings on the vibrator: Courageous, Mental and Heroic04:43
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Klownerthis thing is coooool05:00
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hashier ohhh.... great doc "blablablalba" great!05:05
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luke-jrthat's what you get for using glib05:09
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microlithman, 16GB is so tiny05:13
microlithphysically even05:14
ShadowJKanyone tried editing the mmc-mount script yet so it mounts ext3 cards? :>05:14
arachnisti have 64GB of space in my laptop05:14
* ShadowJK has 40 in his N900 :-(05:14
ShadowJK32 in N80005:14
ShadowJK10 in N81005:14
microlitheventually I shall have 48, when I get my hands on the N90005:15
Sargun_Screen38 in n90005:15
microlithand my iPod will be retired permanently05:15
Klownerjust got my N900, dunno what to do now05:15
Sargun_Screenmy iPod was retired permanently...05:16
microlithhack the gibson, of course05:16
Sargun_Screen...when I got it05:16
jebbajebKlowner: add a bunch of repos and install everything you see05:16
Sargun_Screen.....With a sledgehammer05:16
microlithSargun_Screen: tragic05:16
Klownerjebbajeb: is there a list of magical repos somewhere?05:17
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ShadowJKextras is safe, extras-testing is less safe, extras-devel is least safe05:17
ShadowJKthey're probably on ;)05:18
* GeneralAntilles sighs.05:18
GeneralAntillesI bought a US/EU adaptor for the Summit, now I've lost it.05:18
DocScrutinizerand a question05:19
arachnistKlowner: configure some sharing accounts, configure your IM's05:19
DocScrutinizerwhere should I report simple short bugreports about maemo on N900?05:19
arachnistconfigure your email, calendar05:19
arachnistimport contacts from your old phone05:20
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arachnistmerge contact (phone/email/im)05:20
Sargun_ScreenDocScrutinizer: hey05:20
arachnistKlowner: should be enough to make you busy for the next few hours05:20
Sargun_Screenare you going to put fso on the n90005:20
DocScrutinizerlike "N900 unlock screen doesn't dim, when regularly touched. Expected: screen goes dim after few seconds, if not correctly unlocked. Found: screen light stays on, consuming power, when touched"05:21
arachnistShadowJK: it looks like all you should have to change in the mmc-mount script is replacing "vfat" with "auto"05:22
DocScrutinizeranother one I just want to discuss before I report:05:22
ShadowJKarachnist, I thought so too05:23
DocScrutinizerdialer doesn't take "*100#"05:23
arachnistDocScrutinizer: there's a bug for that05:23
Klownerhrrrm, skype calls and nobody can hear me, that's not great05:23
KlownerI hope I didn't get a bad mic one05:23
arachnistDocScrutinizer: btw, if you really have to, there's a way to just enter it using AT commands05:24
arachnistbug 535705:24
povbotBug Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *#05:24
Sargun_Screeni wish the n900 had a soft cover05:24
DocScrutinizerarachnist: (vfat/auto) good idea. found that as well05:24
Sargun_Screenliie the n81005:24
DocScrutinizerarachnist: (AT, 5357) is the way to directly interface modem AT interface mentioned in this bug?05:25
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arachnistDocScrutinizer: /dev/ppp ?05:26
arachnist(though i suspected something more like /dev/tty*)05:27
jebbajebKlowner:  that's one to start with05:27
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arachnistKlowner: i had no problems with calling people over skype that used their PCs05:28
arachnistKlowner: calling people using fring on windows mobile didn't work well, though05:29
DocScrutinizerarachnist: hmm, not quite obvious05:32
DocScrutinizerthe mentioned russian site says ""dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/csd/call string:"$1" uint32:0""05:32
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DocScrutinizerdon't get any of the rest05:32
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DocScrutinizerarachnist: and /dev/ppp  most likely is the data channel of the gsm07muxer05:33
DocScrutinizerif not a completely separate physical interface of the modem05:34
DocScrutinizerwell, for sure I could check and try all usual suspects in /dev05:35
DocScrutinizerbut I'd appreciate a short hint of someone knowing exactly which interface is AT05:36
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DocScrutinizerSargun_Screen: (FSO) Probably not anytime soon. Maybe FSO team might consider to do so05:38
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Sargun_Screendid they ever port it to the palm pre?05:40
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jebbajeblooks like xchat crashes when you try to save preferences...05:40
Klownergrrr, mic better not be busted05:40
jebbajebKlowner: you have headfones plugged in?  you could also try a different app. Could just be skrype05:41
DocScrutinizerdifferent app could be "recorder". Just tested - works great05:44
Klownerheadphone works, yelling at the device itself I hear nothing05:47
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DocScrutinizerKlowner: you're aware headset hat ships with N900 has a builtin mic?05:48
DocScrutinizerin the clip05:48
Klownercorrect, that works05:49
Klownerthere's a mic IN the phone though, right?05:49
DocScrutinizeror do you say you don't use headphones, and skype doesn't work with builtin device mic?05:49
DocScrutinizerlol, ure there is05:49
DocScrutinizerso, can you place normal phonecalls?05:50
KlownerI have no sim yet05:50
DocScrutinizerseems you should get one for 30min rather soon, to thoroughly test device05:51
Klowneris there another app to test audio input?05:52
DocScrutinizerafter a few weeks it's usually not that easy to get a replacement rather than a repair05:52
DocScrutinizerrecord should work for builtin as well I guess05:52
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DocScrutinizerlemme try...05:52
DocScrutinizerworks great05:53
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Klownerin an extras repos?05:56
* DocScrutinizer christens his device "Iron"05:57
DocScrutinizer(extras) possibly05:57
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jebba900wow supertux runs great05:58
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DocScrutinizerKlowner: "Voice Recorder" 0.3.2 - alas the prog.manager doesn't tell me which repo it's from06:00
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DocScrutinizeractually repo management in progman isn't that great06:01
Klownerit's in maemo extras06:02
Klownerand I'm not hearing anything06:02
DocScrutinizeryes, expected that06:02
DocScrutinizerthat's actually strange06:02
DocScrutinizerwith headset it works?06:03
DocScrutinizer(record via headset mic, playback with hs unplugged)06:03
Klowneryep, works fine through the headset06:04
Klownerplayback through headset and device both work06:04
DocScrutinizersounds actually like a borked digital mic06:04
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if the missing SIM / disabled phone might... o.O06:05
jebba900klowner you could try a good ol reboot (i say with dread).  could just be pulseaudio06:05
jebba900problem is more likely software than hardware06:06
DocScrutinizermost usually06:06
DocScrutinizermic's been tested a few days ago. Worked back when06:07
jebba900hah. volume rocker in xchat flips thru channels06:07
DocScrutinizeraaaaah, xchat, my love. Almost forgot to give you a try06:09
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Klownerreboot did nothin06:10
Klownerthere seems to be a lot of people with bad mics on the forums06:10
* Arkenoi looked closely at the screen - one week of use, one minor scratch. if the rate keeps the screen will look damn ugly at the end of year. any advices? is there a way to remove scratches later?06:11
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GeneralAntillesArkenoi, don't put sand in your pockets?06:11
Arkenoii doubt it was there. i am pretty sure there was nothing except the phone itself in that pocket.06:13
jebba900docscrutinizer:  saving prefs crashes though. Also ddont see how to do tab for nick completion06:14
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GeneralAntillesArkenoi, I've had it since September and don't have any scratches.06:15
DocScrutinizerjebba900: for tab I defined another key on N81006:15
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jebba900£ and € would be good candidates for tab and pipe. How do you change 'em?06:17
DocScrutinizer51so good so far06:17
DocScrutinizer51guess I edited the xchat config file06:18
jebba900ah, just in xchat not systemwide   ?06:18
DocScrutinizerKlowner: ouch. share pointer?06:18
DocScrutinizerjebba900: yes06:19
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jebba900in maemomaps the only way i can figure out how to leave is to open the camera!06:19
greenflyjebba900: probably can use the ctrl-bksp thing too06:20
DocScrutinizererrr, hit upper left, the eventually a screen with close X shows up06:20
GeneralAntillesOvi Maps is junk06:20
GeneralAntillesDon't bother with it.06:20
jebba900heh nice thx. lots to learn still06:20
Arkenoiwell, i think i am going to buy a case, i guess iphone one with elastic sides may fit06:21
jebba900i was using maemomaps.  gpx or something worked great then i realized it was just a treasure hunting game or somesuch06:21
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: seems hard to slide out kbd then06:22
jebba900also there is openstreetmaps EDITOR which may be usable. Not sure wwhich is best yet06:22
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DocScrutinizerjebba900: as I said: hit "daa didididit" opper right, then hit X same location06:23
Arkenoiwill see how it fits. i hope i can find one which is easy to open and take the phone out06:24
GeneralAntillesCase seems rather pointless06:24
GeneralAntillesScreen protector is the way to go.06:24
GeneralAntillesBonus: glare and smudge reduction06:24
Arkenoiactually if n900 screen is the same plastic used in e90, it is quite hard to scratch and the scratch i got must be accidental06:24
GeneralAntillesHopefully Boxwave will have one soon.06:24
DocScrutinizerI'm thinking about a screen protector foil06:24
DocScrutinizerdid a good job on N81006:25
DocScrutinizerthough there I disassembled screen to pace the foil under the bezel06:25
Arkenoiit should be ok to take a psp screen protector and cut it to fit n90006:26
Firebirdwhere did you get transparent foil?06:26
GeneralAntillesOr just buy one that'll actually fit.06:26
Arkenoigeneral: i doubt i can find one in a local store soon and cutting is not hard part at all06:27
DocScrutinizergot me a one-size-fits-all kit in local electronics store06:28
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DocScrutinizercutting wasn't hard, as I didn't have to cut to exact size, as mentioned above06:29
DocScrutinizergot two microbubbles though :-/06:30
DocScrutinizerand of course the device looks a loot less shiny and the screen less crisp06:31
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DocScrutinizerand ts sensitivity is somewhat reduced06:32
DocScrutinizerI'm still pondering...06:32
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Sargun_ScreenDocScrutinizer: what do you put your n900 inside of?06:35
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jebba900wow canola looks nice06:36
jebba900your pocket!06:36
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Klownerwelp, looks like the mic doesn't work06:42
GeneralAntillesThat's awesome.06:43
GeneralAntillesIt almost seems like Nokia cranked down the QC in favor of meeting demand.06:44
luke-jrN810 mic doesn't work with non-Maemo yet06:44
greenflywhat I keep wondering is whether it's hardware or whether it's the mixer levels for that mic06:44
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, well, reflashes haven't solved it.06:45
GeneralAntillesSo it seems like it's hardware.06:45
GeneralAntillesBut, dunno.06:45
Klownerpoking around in alsamixer didn't help06:45
greenflybut if they reflashed with the same firmware06:45
greenflythat had the problem06:45
luke-jrreflashes won't help if it defaults to muted06:45
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, well, I'm running that firmware on my device and the mic works fine.06:45
GeneralAntillesSo, no, that doesn't really explain it.06:45
GeneralAntillesand lots of other people with retail firmware have mics that work fine, too.06:45
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greenflyI'm just saying it could be explained by either06:47
greenflyif we had pulse mixer controls on it...06:47
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GeneralAntillesIf it were firmware, EVERY device would have the issue.06:48
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arachnisti have no problems with mic either06:49
DangerMausKlowner, fedex give you your fix?06:49
KlownerDangerMaus: yes, and the mic isn't working06:50
jebba900hmm. Somehow made it into my Contacts list. They are listed as being in Villa Crespo, Argentina which I seriously doubt...06:52
DangerMausi didnt check that yet06:52
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DangerMausstupid left thumb just cant hit the pad rite06:55
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GeneralAntillesThe Nokia Blog so stole my story.07:00
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Klownerthis is almost more frustrating than waiting for this darn thing07:01
DangerMausbloody hell no tab on the hardware kb?07:02
jebba900no pipe either heh07:03
Proteousno alt07:04
jebba900would be nice to remap £€.   Dont dare tread into xmodmap territory yet tho07:04
GeneralAntillesDangerMaus, just rebind it.07:04
GeneralAntillesDetails on maemo-developers.07:04
* DangerMaus never figured out xmodmap or re editing keymaps07:05
DangerMausjust always wound up with busted keymaps07:06
jaemhas anyone here been working with Qt on the N900?07:06
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jaemI need to do conditional compilation with the Q_WS_HILDON #define, as mentioned on the Maemo wiki, but I think I'm not understanding that fully07:06
jaemis that set automatically based on the port of Qt that you're building against, or do you have to set it manually somewhere?07:07
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Venomrushin silient mode when u browse youtube07:09
Venomrushdoes it meant to give sound?07:09
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jaemVenomrush, are you saying it is making noise, or asking if it should?07:10
Venomrushasking if it should07:11
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Venomrushi expect in silent mode07:11
Venomrushno sound wat soever07:11
Venomrushexcept music play07:12
jaemVenomrush, I believe silent/general is for notifications, vs the slider for user volume07:12
jaema bit counterinuitive for most phones07:12
jaemthen again, my old phone had "silent" and "vibrate" mode, where vibrate==silent, and silent==*mostly* silent07:12
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Klownerhow the heck do you have a $0.50 component be busted and not know it07:26
KlownerMy N900 mic doesn't work and I'm pissed07:27
johnxwhich $.50 component of mine is busted?07:27
johnxKlowner, were you the one asking on the forum?07:27
Klownerit appears I'm not the only one07:27
cehtehmany people have that problem07:27
XisdibikIs the default weather app good? or is another one in the repos a better deal?07:27
johnxXisdibik, omweather07:28
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ersinhi everyone07:28
johnxgood morning ersin07:29
ersini have python2.5 installed in scratchbox, but when i compile part of the program seems to be detecting scratchbox's python2.3 package, because my build chokes when ld tries to link to the python2.3 libs but can't find them07:30
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ersinthen i tried to look for libpython2.3* under /scratchbox, but i couldn't find it07:30
jebba900klowner you got url to others with same prob?07:30
Klownerjebba900: yep, there's some on the nokia forums, and maemo forums07:31
Klownerjebba900: and people on twitter..07:31
ersinany ideas?07:31
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cehtehis it possible to change the fontsize globally?07:34
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jebba900not that ive seen re: fontsize07:35
cehtehidea ..07:36
johnxcehteh, maybe in a theme?07:36
cehtehworks :)07:36
cehtehi didnt really expect it .. i changed the -dpi of the Xserver in the SDK07:37
cehtehyou likely can change that on the real device too07:37
DangerMausKlowner, checked my mic and  it works in the voice recorder07:37
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DangerMausno sim atm07:38
DangerMausstill trying to recover skype passwd07:38
ersinanybody at all know why the app i'm trying to compile is trying to link with python2.3 libs or where i can get python2.3 libs?07:38
ersin(in scratchbox?)07:38
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* DangerMaus passes Klowner a cold one07:39
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cehtehnow i would like to know how to send a 'return' keystroke in pidgin07:42
cehtehctrl-ret doesnt work07:42
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jebba900cehteh, try sliding out the keyboard and see if that changes behaviour07:44
cehtehi dont have a device yet07:44
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cehtehwell if anyone of you want to try .. you can change the fontsizes globally by forcing the xserver to a different dpi setting07:48
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Xisdibikyay, xchat setup :D07:59
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DangerMausXisdibik what repo is xchat in?08:10
ersinok so i've installed python2.3 and /usr/lib/libpython2.3* is present, but when i run ld -lpython2.3 it still says that it "cannot be found"08:11
ersinany ideas?08:11
ersin/usr/lib is in LD_LIBRARY_PATH08:11
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XisdibikDangerMaus: devel afaik08:14
XisdibikDangerMaus: did you get your n900 today? :D08:15
DangerMausnot ready to play there yet08:15
Xisdibikive only played with select things there08:15
DangerMausand the Mic works08:15
Xisdibikxchat, and telepathy haze to be exact08:15
DangerMausback to the 770 for xchat08:16
DangerMausbrb grabbing skyp stuff from rents puter08:17
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jaemersin, eek, that's old08:19
jaemprobably not easily08:19
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Klownerguess I'll call nokia care in the morning08:22
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tekojoKlowner what's the problem?08:23
ersinjaem: i think i narrowed it to finding the python2.3-dev package08:23
Klownerdead mic08:23
Klownerjust reflashed the firmware too, still nothi08:24
ersinopenoffice is detecting python2.3 in some random's a very difficult package to build, i already had to make gcc 4.2 =/08:24
tekojook, then it sounds dead08:24
KlownerI got finger prints aaaaaaall over it08:25
ersindoes ANYONE know where i can download python2.3-dev????08:25
johnxersin, for maemo4 or maemo5 sdk?08:27
ersini've combed all the dirs as well as gronmayer.lt08:27
ersinthe closest i got is this:
ersinit looks like python2.3-dev was removed after the 3.2 sdk08:28
ersinbut i can't find it any bora/mistral repos...08:28
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johnxerrr, earlier I thought you *didn't* want python2.3?08:30
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jaemersin, it probably was08:31
ersinno no08:31
Klownergah, did just take a dump?08:31
jaemand you don't want to try to install packages that old08:31
ersini *do* want it08:31
ersinopenoffice is detecting it for some reason08:31
ersinbecause that's the default python version in maemo4 scratchbox sdk08:31
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ersindespite the fact that i've already installed python2.5 from extras in my scratchbox, it's detecting the default, which is python2.308:32
johnxso, just modify openoffice's build scripts to explicitly call python2.508:32
ersinheh yeah easier said than done...08:32
johnxno kidding :)08:32
ersinsuch a convoluted build process08:32
ersinthis thing is a monster08:32
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ersinand i have no idea why it would detect the older version08:32
johnxI looked at OO.o's build system once and decided that abiword was probably good enough for me08:32
johnxif you type "python -V" what does it say?08:33
ersinwell i did the most recent abiword port, which is quite nice08:33
ersinand i'm trying to get OOo for my next project ;-)08:33
ersinpython -v says "Python 2.3.4"08:33
ersinbut i definitely have python2.5 as well08:33
johnxthat's why it's finding python 2.3 :)08:34
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ersinoh wow stupid path order08:34
ersinit's looking for the scratchbox stuff first, duh08:34
johnxso, maybe tweak OO.o's build to explicitly call python2.5 in place of python2.3? or maybe some hacking with alias or something? /me shrugs08:34
ersinno i'll just switch the path order, that should do it08:35
ersini hope...heh08:35
johnxdanger danger :) other things in sb will probably fail after that, but it's worth a shot08:35
ersinbut why would scratchbox sdk ship with python2.3 but not have the dev libs??08:35
johnxfor the same reason that I gave up on sb years ago08:35
ersinhah! and how do you do maemo dev then?08:36
johnxbecause it's a little bit too complicated for its own good (IMHO)08:36
johnxI hack on mer stuff. :)08:36
ersinhow's that coming along these days?08:36
johnxa little slow. could always use more hands :)08:36
ersinlike on what?08:37
ersin(in particular)08:37 suceed simply ssh home and reattach to irssi08:37
luke-jrirssi ftl08:37
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johnxersin, hmm, packaging, hacking on the non-3D accelerated version of the desktop08:38
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johnxif you're interested in kernel level stuff, there's a little bit to do there before we can move on from 2.6.2108:39
Xisdibik_N900Dmaus_990 :)08:39
johnxuhm, in either case, sound stuff could use work (pulse-dsp)08:39
luke-jrjohnx: "a little bit" does not explain the extent of the necessary reverse engineering well08:40
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johnxluke-jr, shhh. 'em in the door first, then scare them after that :)08:40
ersinis the main difficulty because mer needs to reverse engineer the closed source nokia bins?08:40
luke-jrersin: Mer doesn't *need* to reverse *all* of them <.<08:41
cehtehthere kernel itself is told to be not tained08:41
ersinoh i'm interested already...i probably won't be able to start for a while because i'm in the middle of grad program apps and, ofc, porting ooo ;)08:41
cehtehthere are prolly some firmware blobs which are poked into the DSP and stuff08:41
luke-jrOOo ftl08:41
luke-jryeah, I don't mind the firmware blobs too much08:41
luke-jrbiggest #1 blob problem is gpsdriver08:41
luke-jrafter that, BME08:41
johnxcehteh, yeah, I believe we're missing the DSP tasks themselves, so no sound for right now08:41
luke-jrand finally GLES libs08:42
cehtehhehe .. and dont forget about hacking baseband :P08:42
luke-jrnot-so-important are firmware blobs and NOLO08:42
cehtehthat will make some people really angry08:42
luke-jrjohnx: sound output works fine on 2.6.3008:42
Xisdibiki thought there was a SNES emulator in the repos, is it not ready yet?08:42
luke-jrjohnx: for N810 at least08:42
johnxluke-jr, on the N810 it does. On the N800 I believe it doesn't08:42
cehtehif anyone of you guys does kernel hacking and needs git hosting space, i would donate it08:42
johnxXisdibik, I think emulators got pulled from the repos (unless I'm confused)08:42
Xisdibikjohnx: theres a Sega emulator in it08:43
johnxcehteh, we have git hosting. we need kernel hackers :)08:43
johnxthought thanks for the offer08:43
cehtehwell we need devices :)08:43
johnxXisdibik, in Extras or Extras-(devel|testing)?08:43
cehtehat least me08:43
johnxcehteh, if you want to hack on kernel stuff for the N8x0, I can send you an N800 :)08:44
Xisdibikjohnx: i thing testing08:44
cehtehok i am not that much kernel hacker, but just maintaining a vanilla kernel + maemo stuff merged in to stay on the top without any other invasive changes would be nice08:44
cehtehand maybe then hist a deb repository with some kernel images .. encryption enabled, ipv6 (if it isnt already) and so on08:45
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cehtehjohnx: well so far i am not even sure if i will keep the n900 .. somewhat nice to see and watch while waiting for the device08:45
luke-jrcehteh: Maemo kernel stuff is not legit, so we can't do that :p08:46
arachnist  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND08:46
arachnist 5529 arachnis  20   0  643m 131m  24m R 9999  3.4 823:40.88 chrome08:46
cehtehluke-jr: what?08:46
cehtehits GPL08:46
luke-jrcehteh: and big companies think they're above GPL08:46
cehtehyeah .. no one succeeded with that08:46
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luke-jrNokia's a little better, but not totally clean08:46
luke-jrcehteh: few fail at ignoring Linux GPL08:47
cehtehbut the very much depend on a n900 deveoper community08:47
luke-jrcehteh: unfortunately, most of the developer community doesn't care08:47
cehtehwhen they start bashing them they can only loose ... and they know that08:47
luke-jrI think N900 kernel is 100% legit tho08:47
luke-jrcehteh: there's at most 10 people I've met that actually care08:48
cehtehi rather wonder why nokia doesnt host a kernel git08:48
luke-jrwell, with N900 kernel stuff, it's supposedly been merging to mainline...08:48
luke-jrno idea how realistic that worked out08:49
cehtehbecause the sources are open and its easy to diff them against vanilla .. its just a *bit* pita to merge and maintian their changes if there are any08:49
luke-jrhonestly, Nokia made a lot of improvement on the Linux end with N900 now that I think of it08:49
luke-jrbut N8x0 are left in the dust08:49
cehtehi expect there are some changes .. but there is no black magic and even if its not going to be merged by linus the community should at least maintain their own public kernel repository08:50
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cehtehof course there is more for a free phone than just a free kernel, but whatever is reachable should be done08:50
luke-jrcehteh: Nokia had an open wifi driver developed for the N8x0 a while back08:50
luke-jrthat finally got put into mainline staging for 2.6.3108:51
luke-jror maybe 2.6.3008:51
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luke-jrbut it was removed from 2.6.32 due to not progressing08:51
johnxstrangely for a linux device, it seems the N8x0 didn't attract a huge kernel hacker community08:51
cehtehfor example i want btrfs and encryption soon08:51
luke-jrcehteh: if you just want a free phone, OpenMoko seems the way to go ;)08:51
cehtehi know some people using then n80008:51
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luke-jrjohnx: bad experiences from Sharp et al?08:51
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cehtehwell i want a free useable phone .. and i am willing to make some compromises08:52
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cehtehbut having a free kernel is an requirement for sustainablility of the device08:52
johnxluke-jr, Sharp was worse than negligent in working with the community. They were actively harmful, But at the same time, the Zaurii have a more recent kernel08:52
luke-jrI'm willing to compromise hardware schematics ;)08:52
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luke-jrjohnx: yeah, just saying maybe some of the guys who bought them said "never again"08:53
luke-jrcehteh: IMO, free hardware support.08:53
luke-jrcehteh: which Nokia actively refuses to provide for all models AFAIK08:53
luke-jrin part, PowerVR and TI are to blame, of course.08:54
cehtehyes, prolly by some NDA's they had to sign :P08:54
johnxluke-jr, very possible, but pretty much every zaurus has a more recent kernel than the N8x0 or 77008:54
cehtehbut at least they should do and support what they can do08:54
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cehtehand so far it looks reasnonable good for the n90008:54
johnxPowerVR licenses the driver to TI who distributes to Nokia, if I understand correctly08:54
luke-jrcehteh: BME is 100% Nokia, but they refuse to give specs or code08:54
cehtehbut we (the community) have to push them08:55
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johnxluke-jr, BME is also not necessary, just for running a new kernel, right?08:55
luke-jrjohnx: of course it's necessary08:55
luke-jrnobody buys a handheld to run on AC power08:55
johnxs/BME/an open BME/08:55
infobotjohnx meant: luke-jr, an open BME is also not necessary, just for running a new kernel, right?08:55
cehtehBME is actually dangerous and looking at the US law system nokia better dont let kids play with it :)08:56
luke-jrjohnx: mainline has clearly stated they will never merge pass-thru-to-blob-userland "drivers"08:56
cehtehwhile it would be nice to turn stolen n900 into bombs remotely :P08:56
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luke-jrcehteh: does the US law system differentiate between C code and ARM code?08:57
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luke-jrjohnx: not to mention when the next ABI change comes around08:57
johnxcehteh, chances of blowing up: relatively low. chances of damaging the battery: meh.08:57
luke-jrchances of blowing up blindly reverse engineering a blob: relatively low08:58
luke-jrchances of blowing up reading over well-commented C code: almost none08:58
cehtehif anyone figures out how to 'improve' the charging circruit in some dangerous way .. or only let the cpu overheat or the brightness LED's wear out (not to talk about the flash) then someone will certaily sue nokia for allowing that happen08:58
johnxluke-jr, we can workaround the ABI stuff (the same way we do now). Can the 2.6.21 patches that support BME be applied to 2.6.3x?08:58
johnxcehteh, nah. I don't really buy it. Think of all the people who bricked their Linksys routers :)08:59
luke-jrI know08:59
cehtehsince the kernel (including the blob loaders and control modules) are GPL it shoudl be possible to maintain them with an actual kernel09:00
luke-jrI'll find a 0-day exploit in N900's kernel, remote into every N900 over GSM, and make them ALL blow up09:00
cehtehwith more or less work09:00
cehtehsomeone just have to do that09:00
luke-jrcehteh: N8x0 kernel is *not* GPL09:00
luke-jror rather, it should be, but we don't have code09:00
johnxluke-jr, huh? to what part?09:00
cehtehwell someone sue nokia them  :P09:00
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luke-jrjohnx: cx3110x's umac thing09:00
luke-jrcehteh: nobody's sued nVidia09:00
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luke-jrand it can't be just anyone09:01
cehtehdoes nvidia ship devices with the blob preinstalled?09:01
luke-jrit needs to be a copyright holder09:01
johnxwe have a newer/better wifi driver anyways09:01
luke-jrcehteh: nope, irrelevant09:01
luke-jrjohnx: but no combination actually works yet09:01
luke-jrjohnx: also, last time I tried stlc45xx it didn't work09:02
luke-jrp54spi was even worse09:02
cehtehwell not exactly, bad practice yes, maybe not even compliant with the GPL but you dont get a GPL violation at first .. you admit violating the GPL by installing the nvidia driver by yourself09:02
luke-jrcehteh: installing the driver is not violation; distributing it is09:02
luke-jrnVidia distributes it plenty09:02
ersinsue the bastards!09:02
luke-jrI lack a copyright on Linux :(09:03
luke-jrnot to mention funds for a lawsuit09:03
ersinoh, right09:03
ersin*returns to spectating*09:03
cehtehrather linus unpolitical views09:03
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cehtehanyways nvidia is bad, we know that09:04
luke-jrLinus blocked merging a patch to refuse to load them :/09:04
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cehtehi dunno about the n8x0 kernel09:04
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cehtehbut for the n900 kernel we should at least to as much as is possible to maintain it freely09:04
johnxyeah, should be a much better situation with the N90009:05
johnxespecially with all the other systems sharing the OMAP3 processors09:05
cehtehn8x0 had no competition ..09:05
denniscollectivehow do how do I sync an n900 with linux?09:05
cehtehwith n900 they have a lot competition09:05
luke-jrcehteh: they do?09:05
cehtehas 'smartphone'09:06
brbrbri put more hope on alternatives to Linus kernel, after Alan Kox self-dismissal. like linuz fors nad BSD/Viengoose09:06
luke-jrcehteh: N900 isn't a smartphone09:06
cehteheven if nokia says so .. look at the forums09:06
cehtehpeople either buy it because its freer OR because they want a nice smartphone09:06
brbrbreven Debian moved[slowly]to kFreeBSD09:06
luke-jrcehteh: or the same reason they bought a N810...09:06
cehtehno one buys it because its a 'internet tablet'09:06
johnxbrbrbr, moved? or you mean supported?09:07
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brbrbri like N800. this just lack of good[small and robust enough, like HTC one]AUX IR keyboard09:07
cehtehwell the n810 and so one didnt sold *that* well .. nokia expects to sell the n900 1000 times more09:07
luke-jrcehteh: I'll probably move to OpenPandora09:08
johnxbrbrbr, is a bluetooth keyboard ok?09:08
cehtehand the users (that are we) have to make it clear to nokia that the 'free' is a important decision in buying their thing09:08
brbrbrjohnx yeah, but Squeeze maybe last Debian with linux naziware inside. wonder what shurtlleworth can do in THAT case ;) moving to Fedora ? :)09:08
rashed2020What exactly should Nokia do with Maemo to crush all other mobile OSs. I'm reading up on it and it really doesn't seem that hard to do with Nokia's reach.09:08
luke-jrcehteh: those of us who demand free are too few09:08
brbrbrjohnx, no its NOT ok. have size of 3x N800 and have BAD keys09:08
johnxbrbrbr, uh huh. right. link to the announcement on the debian mailing list?09:08
cehtehluke-jr: of users maybe .. but talk about developers ..09:09
luke-jrrashed2020: Mobile OS ftl :)09:09
luke-jrcehteh: developers too09:09
johnxbrbrbr, you mean the foldable ones? which IR keyboard are you thinking about?09:09
rashed2020luke-jr: What do you mean?09:09
luke-jrcehteh: they're always bashing me for being a "zealot"09:09
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brbrbrno, but kFreeBSD declared "mission critical", so Squeeze not out, before kFreeBSD was polished out too09:09
Tyrant91101Is there any work around for the n810 for the flasher error "Error claiming USB interface: device or resource busy" ?09:09
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cehtehi didnt seen much developers yet who look at maemo for closed sourced apps09:09
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luke-jrcehteh: no, tehy don't look FOR it, but they tolerate it09:10
brbrbri mean something, what HTC ship with premium version of old O2 smartphones. about 1.5x size of ordinary PC's mouse09:10
cehtehthe ones who aim for a business target apple or android, maybe port their stuff09:10
johnxTyrant91101, uhm. which flasher version? which distro/kernel version?09:10
denniscollectivecan anyone reccomend a relatively painless way of syncing my n900 up with my linux laptop, the magic oracle google, wasn't being fruitful.09:10
cehtehdenniscollective: syncing what?09:11
Tyrant91101johnx: flasher-3.0, trying to install diablo, on FC12 livecd09:11
johnxTyrant91101, might be worth trying flasher-3.509:11
cehtehdenniscollective: rsync for files09:11
brbrbri tried HTC kbd get to work with N800, but no luck[out of patience bedore]09:11
cehtehis there any more to sync than files? :)09:12
denniscollectiveMagic syncing calender stuff, cause its the future09:12
johnxbrbrbr, I don't even know what keyboard you're talking about...and the N800 doesn't have IR09:12
luke-jrdenniscollective: Git09:12
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denniscollectivegit push calender....09:12
denniscollectiveso do it.... "IN THE CLOUD"09:12
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luke-jrI still use Subversion for my PIM data09:12
luke-jrthough my latest calendar is git09:13
Tyrant91101johnx: thank you didnt knwo newer version was released. Since they have one for Win7 maybe I can avoid using that dreaded FC12 ;p09:13
johnxdenniscollective, not many good options right now I think. definitely not painless ones09:13
denniscollectivecheckout git clone git://
denniscollectivecool, thanks everyone, thats unfortunate, but so is life.09:14
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johnxdenniscollective, I think they might support google's implementation of exchange at some point. no announcement yet09:15
luke-jrdenniscollective: hire me to write a PIM suite and I'll make sure it's painless ;)09:15
denniscollectiveI wish there were a convenient way for me to make my laptop, and phone play nice without letting google know, but I guess I should just surrender to the future/big brother09:16
johnxthere actually are PIM apps that should be able to sync to some degree, kinda I think09:16
luke-jrdenniscollective: seriously, git isn't *that* hard09:16
denniscollectiveluke-jr: what's your rate?09:16
luke-jrdenniscollective: if I can GPL everything, I'll go down to $25/hr09:17
denniscollectivei know, I use it all day09:17
luke-jrbut I'm pretty busy with other work right now, so it might be a few months before I can really commit to it09:17
johnxthough it's supposed to be evolution data server on the device, so maybe it's just a question of getting the desktop to talk to it or muck around with the right files09:17
denniscollectiveclassy, when my website makes me a DOTCOM WEB3.0 BILLIONAIRE, I will finance it09:17
luke-jrsounds like we have similar ("not this moment") timeframes in mind09:18
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denniscollectiveluke-jr: can you make git play nice with the pretty pim applets?09:18
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denniscollectivei just got my n900 today, so I haven't used the command line much, so I'm not terribly aware of how its set u[09:18
luke-jrdenniscollective: possibly, grab me a N900 and I'll see what I can do :p09:19
denniscollectivewhen the magick timeline works out...09:19
luke-jr(my N810 doesn't have pim *anything*)09:19
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denniscollective... is there a relatively painfree way for me to make the keyboard on my n900 dvorak, I don't want RSI.09:22
johnxactually, if the device uses evolution data server, why *can't* we sync it...?09:22
luke-jrdenniscollective: RSI/dvorak/etc don't apply to handheld keyboards...09:23
johnxdenniscollective, err, ukeyboard maybe?09:23
luke-jrI mean, yuo probably CAN09:23
luke-jrbut you're typing with your thumbs, not your full set of fingers09:23
luke-jrif you want an optimized layout, it ain't going to be dvorak09:23
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denniscollectiveoh yeah, your right, one handed dvorak, then I'll only need to use 1 thumb.09:24
Xisdibikis javispedro a UKer?09:24
Xisdibikor euro for that matter09:24
denniscollectivejohnx: it uses evolution internally? wow, it'd be nice to make this happy.09:24
johnxyeah. so I think it might just be a question of ... exposing the filesystem to the desktop and letting the desktop handle it maybe?09:25
johnxhaven't played with eds at all, but now I'm curious, because I'd like the same thing09:25
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johnxideally I'd like to just sync it to *everything* to my hosted server w/ LDAP/CalDAV/IMAP09:26
johnxbut one step at a time09:26
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XisdibikIf anyone is interested in subtitles in the standard media player, i have an enhancement post made :D09:33
povbotBug 6464: Support Subtitles in Media Player09:33
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cehtehwhere is a repository for claws?09:37
cehtehor next question has garage a deb repository?09:37
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XisdibikVenomrush: awesome thanks :)09:57
Xisdibikand with that im off to catch some Zzzz's night all09:58
timeless_mbpXisdibik: how many did you find to change?09:58
Xisdibikmm i think like 509:58
Xisdibiki have the file on my desktop though09:58
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johnxmmm...vga video glasses getting down to $15010:04
johnxmy wife would kill me if I started wearing those everywhere :D10:04
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johnxreally thought. vga has to be the absolute *lowest* resolution for that kind of thing that'd be worth it at all, so it's pretty cool to have them hit $150. Just need one of those one-handed keyboards ...10:06
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wrapsterive written a python lib for which i needed a qt frontend.. it displays a list of processes running and param associated with it.. But im a total newbie to qt with abosolutely no knowledge of it.. can any one please give me some sort of push with regard to a template where I can hook in my methods so that it can be displayed on n900...10:07
wrapsterits kinda urgent as well10:07
johnxwrapster, have you looked at qt designer? (I think that's the name)10:08
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timeless_mbptigert: hey10:08
timeless_mbphow are you w/ html?10:08
wrapsterjohnx: yeah i have but i only have like a day to learn and script it out.. so kinda needed help onit..10:08
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timeless_mbpi need something to draw lines onto a web page :)10:08
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: you thinking of drawing timezone lines, or lat/long or?10:09
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tigerttimeless_mbp: <h1>SAY AGAIN?</h1>10:10
timeless_mbpXisdibik: no10:11
timeless_mbpdrawing lines from Nokia City to Real City10:11
tigertas in a graph?10:11
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: ah ok10:11
timeless_mbptigert: see
tigertdraw it in google maps and embed it? :)10:11
timeless_mbp Nokia put Tokyo somewhere in the Pacific Ocean10:12
Xisdibikand Osaka10:12
timeless_mbpyeah well10:12
timeless_mbplet's not list all of the errors here right now :)10:12
timeless_mbpthe list is kinda long10:12
Xisdibikhaha ;)10:12
* Xisdibik just hopes the pilot of his flight to tokyo in january doesnt have a n90010:13
cehtehwhats the 'windowmanager' in fremantle? can it be started standalone from the sdk?10:13
Xisdibik"ladies and gentlemen we will be landing in tokyo shortly *SPLASH*10:13
cehtehXisdibik: rather: ""10:13
cehteh.. microphone defect :P10:14
Xisdibikyea, forgot the end one, always do that ;)10:14
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timeless_mbpXisdibik: wanna add kerguelen (#186) to the list of islands to move?10:15
timeless_mbpit needs to move north10:15
Xisdibiki would if i had the file here10:15
Xisdibikthis netbook doesnt have office on it yet10:15
timeless_mbpyeah don't worry10:15
Xisdibikas im reinstalling everything tomorrow once my new hdd arrives10:15
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cehtehso any idea bout the windowmanager question?10:15
timeless_mbpbut basically it looks like most of the islands in the pacific aren't well placed10:15
timeless_mbpcehteh: dunno what the final sdk has10:15
timeless_mbpthe original draft sdk didn't include the real wm10:16
timeless_mbpbecause it was a secret :)10:16
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: indeed,  guam looked off, but i didnt have time to check it fully10:16
cehtehi think its some component of the hildon desktop10:16
timeless_mbpi think cocos is off10:16
cehtehbut i wonder if it can be started standalone10:16
timeless_mbpchatham is probably too :(10:16
* timeless_mbp sighs10:16
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Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: they chose where things were by playing darts on a map board.    "Tokyo" *throw* "yea there works" ;)10:17
timeless_mbpXisdibik: definitely10:17
Venomrushn900 appearing on xbox10:17
Venomrushnever knew nokia and microsoft have such good relation10:17
timeless_mbpi'd assume we paid big for that10:18
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luke-jrMicrosoft's strategy becomes more obvious every day :)10:19
luke-jrhere's my theory:10:19
timeless_mbpms is generally fairly friendly to people offering cash10:19
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luke-jrthat whole SCO fiasco?10:19
Xisdibikluke-jr: it wasnt obvious from the start? ;)10:19
DangerMaushey they advertised on our sites for long enough10:19
* timeless_mbp grumbles10:19
luke-jrgoal: get rid of SCO10:19
luke-jrwith SCO gone, Microsoft can produce *nix again10:20
DangerMausno more repreives for them10:20
timeless_mbpapple wasn't willing to give sun enough money :(10:20
tigertI guess they sell ads to whoever wants to pay?10:21
timeless_mbpi'd assume so10:21
timeless_mbpwouldn't you?10:21
tigertthe amount of cash correlates to the warmness of the friendship? :)10:21
MyrttiOMG I SEE SUN10:21
johnxtigert, same as any real life relationship, right? :D10:21
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wrapsterjohnx: well i know that. .but like i said i have no idea about that either... so the simpleset way i though was just to create an icon using qt ... where the base file will say soemthing like this "pyton <>" when you click that icon terminal opens up and the script runs10:22
tigertjohnx: I guess some relationships work like that :)10:23
johnx...but here's an interesting one: Microsoft advertises bing on google, but google doesn't advertise on bing :)10:23
johnxwrapster, hmm?10:23
* Xisdibik will pay 500,000 USD to whoever will be his friend first ;)10:23
Xisdibikdont all jump on it at once :P10:24
* suihkulokki thinks nokia outsourced marketing to someone and microsoft outsourced selling ad spots to someone10:24
johnxwrapster, I'm probably not the person to ask about qt. I just suggested qt designer because I'd heard of it before10:24
johnxsuihkulokki, someone with a sense of irony :)10:25
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* johnx sleeps10:25
suihkulokkiso neither company actually is being aware that they are advertizing on "competitors" sphere10:25
suihkulokki(possibly the ad agency and spot reseller is the same company...)10:26
* Xisdibik sleeps too10:26
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Venomrushwhy is microsoft promoting maemo? does that mean they know wm suck?10:29
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timeless_mbpjohnx: why should google advertise?10:30
plr_everyone knows that and they have all the more reason to know that - they are the ones making it :)10:30
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timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: didn't ms outsource selling ads to yahoo?10:30
timeless_mbp(nokia outsources marketing regionally)10:31
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mischa_hi all, i just received my n900 today. it's looking good :)10:46
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Stskeepsdoes the mic work and it doesn't go into reboot loops?10:46
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mischa_:), it seems to be working fine :)10:46
Stskeepscongrats, you might have a non-foobared n900 :)10:47
mischa_is that a common problem with the n900?10:47
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Stskeepsthere's been some batches that have some issues it seem10:47
Stskeepsmine works fine10:47
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mischa_i hope mine is fine 2 ::)10:48
mischa_can you recoment sites for me , where to find the cool stuff for the n900, Stskeeps10:48, obviously :)10:49
mischa_and....10:49 is a big discussion place10:49
mischa_i know ruby is working on the n800, with i also got,10:50
mischa_does that mean it will also run on n90010:50
mischa_i mean , are packeges interchangable10:50
mischa_sorry for my terrrible english btw10:50
Stskeepsmm, not always10:50
Stskeepscan't recall if ruby was ported to n900 yet10:50
mischa_that my fav prog language ...10:51
mischa_it would be nice if i can work on my phone if i wanted to :)10:51
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asidjazzi think i fucked w/ my n900 too muc10:52
asidjazzhow do i give it a full on reset/reboot10:52
asidjazzwont get on the net10:52
asidjazzwont charge via usb10:52
asidjazzwont work w/ t-mo gsm10:52
asidjazzwont work w/ 3g10:52
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
asidjazzif i leave it alone and pick it up itll say too many apps open .. no apps will be open10:52
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Lupumischa_: My apt-cache shows ruby1.8 available10:53
TomaszDyep, ruby is there10:53
mischa_damn, did not look at it yet10:53
mischa_it just arrived10:53
mischa_that is so perfect10:53
mecehey py python can't find osso. (eg import osso fails) what am I missing?10:53
Stskeepsmece: python-osso package?10:54
mecestskeeps, I have that.10:54
mischa_what sources list should i use10:54
mischa_i cant find ruby if i apt-cache search it10:55
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mischa_if got the following catalogi10:56
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mischa_mame extras10:56
mischa_maemo extras10:56
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asidjazzStskeeps: hmm should i do USA variant or Global release?10:57
Stskeepsruby is probably in extras-devel but be careful about adding it as you might trash your device10:57
Stskeepsasidjazz: up to you :P10:57
* Stskeeps can't remember difference10:57
asidjazzill do US10:57
mischa_flasher is your friend :)10:57
mischa_you have the uri for me?10:57
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infobotrumour has it, extras is
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infobotfrom memory, extras-devel is
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asidjazzthe only issue w/ flashing is i cannot fully charge the phone and it wants to die11:01
Stskeepswhy can't you charge?11:02
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asidjazzsays charging then i unplug the charger, back to dead again11:03
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asidjazzany1 have any issues charging your n900 via usb?11:06
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cehtehsome people have problems with it .. see forums11:07
cehtehdid you set it into 'pc tansfer mode' ... if not do so11:08
Stskeepsasidjazz: usb charger i have no issue with, sometimes i do with pc11:08
cehtehand a normal usb port provides less current than the charger11:08
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cehtehbut might be a hardware problem as well11:08
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asidjazzStskeeps: what do you mean w/ pc11:09
Stskeepslike, plugged into a pc to charge :P11:09
asidjazzah and what is hte issue you hvae11:09
asidjazz(more specifically)11:09
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Stskeepsasidjazz: well, at that point, that it didn't really charge that much11:10
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asidjazzwere you able to tell if it charged at all?11:10
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asidjazzwhoa im able to access the n900 HD w/out it on?11:12
Lynoureasidjazz: HD?11:12
Stskeepsasidjazz: the n900 is alive when you charge11:12
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Stskeepsit just acts dead11:12
Lynoureasidjazz: hard drive, high definition, something else?11:12
asidjazzthe drive11:12
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Lynoureasidjazz: I suppose that if you turn it totally off, with power button, no.11:13
mischa_ok, just installed ruby. nice!!!11:13
LynoureBut not sure.11:13
Stskeepsif it's charging, it is usually alive :P11:13
asidjazzLynoure: its totally off11:13
asidjazzwhat are ya gonna do w/ ruby mischa_11:13
asidjazzStskeeps: i wonder if now that its off .. its actually charging for real11:14
LynoureStskeeps: yup, missed the charging bit. :)11:14
asidjazzill leave it alone for 20-30mins andfind out11:14
mischa_it my main progr language11:14
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asidjazzmischa_: i like ruby11:14
asidjazzonly issue is if you write something in ruby ppl are gonna need to install ruby to run it11:15
mischa_if i com up with a good idae and i am not in the prox of a computer i can make a prototype on my phone hahahaha11:15
mischa_ruby is my main language11:15
mischa_i love it11:15
mischa_it should by n there by default :)11:16
asidjazzdoes hte ruby package have gtk support11:16
asidjazzalso sharing an app means sharing the source to that app11:16
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mischa_that is for 810, but that will probably work on the n900 also11:17
mischa_it also have ruby 1.8.711:17
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asidjazzwhat is it11:19
asidjazzso then the package forthe n900 doesnt suppor gtk?11:19
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mischa_asidjazz: yes, maemo ruby gtk/hildon bindings11:20
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Venomrushhow do i zoom11:28
Venomrushin photos?11:28
Venomrushah got it11:28
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Sai_Mon12Hi everyone, have a question. I just got done with configuring and installing apps for my n900. I wanna do a backup now. The built in backup tool seems to only backup the "Application List". I want to backup the  actual applications. Cause all app .install files simply point to the package download (linux thing). But what if at the time of restore, i had no internet or the package i want is no longer there....?11:33
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Venomrushshouldnt be too hard to redownload all the applications once u have the list11:34
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LynoureSai_Mon12: the backup does list the .deb that is installed... you can back them up manually based on the list... even to somewhere else than your N900.11:34
Sai_Mon12does the n900 install .debs?11:36
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VeggenSai_Mon12: yah, it's Debian based.11:37
LynoureSai_Mon12: yes11:37
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imranwhile installing scratchbox on ubuntu i get following error11:39
Sai_Mon12great. I'll conduct a backup. then go through the list to download the .debs manually on my PC. reason y am worried about this. is sometimes packages are taken off. like the snes emulator fo instance11:39
serenityon my host system i'm using ppp0 to get into internet. What changes must be done, that scratchbox uses this connection=11:39
imranGet:2 maemo5-sdk/main Packages gzip: stdin: not in gzip format11:39
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* RST38h moos at the moon11:43
serenitycan i add the host connection to scratchbox?11:44
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asidjazzhmm it seems that charging it for 30mins while off charged it a little bit11:45
asidjazzstill alot slower than plugging it into a wall11:46
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LynoureSai_Mon12: is for ubuntu, but could be easily modified for N90011:48
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RST38hAny C++ wizards out there? =)11:55
cehtehmhm about?11:55
RST38hAbout possibility of instantiating a template with function names11:56
RST38hI.e. I want to supply two function names when instantiating a class template11:56
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cehtehas in  template <Function> class foo { .. ?11:57
RST38hwhere class foo calls Function() somewhere inside11:57
cehtehwont work, at least not easily11:57
cehtehyou need some dispatcher, binder, functor or whatever there11:57
* RST38h knew that #defines were superiod after all :)11:57
cehtehhehe yes11:58
cehtehi stopped using C++ years ago and back to C :=11:58
adeusit's just a bigger gun to shoot at your leg :)11:58
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RST38hpretty much the same here, I ignore all these features normally11:58
cehtehfor C i can give you an example how to dispatch on strings :P11:58
RST38hnah, this I can do =)11:59
* timeless_mbp cries11:59
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meceanyone know where the osso python module is? ive got python-osso installed but it still cant find module osso12:01
Stskeepson device or scratchbox?12:02
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mecethe annoying part is that it works on the other device, but i cant find whats different12:04
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: when do i get a newer version of Mer? :)12:14
Stskeepsoh, right, was supposed to make a new image today12:14
* jaem wants his Mer fix as well12:14
jaemwhat're we at these days, anyway?12:14
jaemlast I checked it was at 0.16.9999999912:15
timeless_mbpjaem: have you played w/ the map web page? :)12:15
jaemtimeless_mbp, which one?12:15
timeless_mbpit's a fun game12:15
timeless_mbp or a variant12:16
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jaemtimeless_mbp, heh, but what's the point?  error-checking?12:17
timeless_mbplaughing at someone's dart throwing?12:17
timeless_mbpcorrected.html has a version where i've moved a bunch of cities12:17
jaemyou'd think they could have gotten it right from the get-go... I mean, most of these cities have been around for a bit longer than the development cycle12:17
frals_god i love some lectures... EJB lecutre (about developing ejb's, not setting it up or anything) and people are asking about how the HTTP protocol works and how webservers load balance >_<12:17
timeless_mbpthere are quite a few more to move12:17
timeless_mbpjaem: search for caracas12:17
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Stskeepsfrals_: occasionally i lose my faith in academia12:18
timeless_mbpit's one of my more recent favorites12:18
* jaem *facepalms*12:18
frals_Stskeeps: yeah.. this is just.. >_<12:18
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timeless_mbpjaem: did you find it? :)12:18
Sai_Mon12hey all, i seem to have made a small mistake. I tried making a backup, using the backup tool on the n900. i chose to save it on the onboard memory. thinking it would just make the one didnt. for some reason now i have duplicates of the folders. for instance Audio Clips, Video Clips, etc.....and it won't let me delete the duplicates12:18
timeless_mbpjaem: well, it's in a Latin land, that's what counts, right? :)12:19
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timeless_mbpso... i've got a problem...12:21
timeless_mbphow do i manage files which don't live in LC_MESSAGES? :)12:21
timeless_mbpthat's basically: 'map', 'maps', 'browser'12:22
jaemtimeless_mbp, I've been fighting with QtDBus since Sunday afternoon :/12:23
jaemfinally got it solved12:23
jaemI asked a friendly Troll, and he cleared it up in about 2 minutes12:23
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jaemsigh... wasted time12:23
jaemtimeless_mbp, any idea why the map fails this badly?12:24
timeless_mbpi plead the 5th?12:24
timeless_mbphrm, probably the wrong one12:24
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timeless_mbpbut how about "it'd be bad if i were to publicly speculate"12:24
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jaemfair enough - it's funny enough without an explanation12:26
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timeless_mbpanyway, if you want to help, please use corrected instead of n90012:27
timeless_mbpyou can enable coordinate gathering by removing a 'return;' line from the html or generator12:27
jaemtimeless_mbp, I'm juggling exams, assignments, and this research project at the moment, so I can't right now12:28
jaembut I'll take a look if I get a chance12:28
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Shapeshifterfor the first time, I'm a bit pissed at this delay. stupid shop. shouldn't promise devices on 1st of december and then change the date to "unknown". -.-12:40
jaemShapeshifter, :(12:40
jaemStskeeps, does Mer 0.17testing3 have N810 images now?12:40
Stskeepsno, x86 images broke so12:41
mgedminsee, this is why Nokia never makes announcements about future projects12:41
Shapeshifterthey better not >.>12:41
mgedminbroken promises incite rage12:41
Shapeshifterpeople would go completely bananas12:41
mgedminmobs with torches12:41
jaemmgedmin, liqtorch? :P12:42
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mgedminis there a liqmob?12:42
jaemI don't know12:42
jaemsomebody tell lcuk to get working!12:42
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jaemmgedmin, maybe an N900 remote to a onedotzero-style projection of waiting customers' rage?12:43
jaemoh wait12:44
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floriango0od morning12:46
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CoreFusion-good morning12:46
CoreFusion-should be only two days now.... I should get my N900 on friday :)12:47
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timeless_mbpmy rocket science finally became helpful12:50
jaemCoreFusion-, have fun :)12:50
jaemtimeless_mbp, oh?12:50
timeless_mbpjaem: i've been puzzling how to deliver replacements for files that are not .mo files12:51
timeless_mbpand it finally dawned upon me12:51
timeless_mbpi think, anyway12:51
timeless_mbpi need to check to make sure it does the right thing tm12:51
timeless_mbpactually, it probably isn't going to work12:51
* timeless_mbp looks at the map carefully12:51
CoreFusion-wtf is wrong with people?12:53
cehtehbored? :)12:53
StskeepsCoreFusion-: their credit card handling system needs a beating, for sure12:53
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cehtehwell and people who order a non existing product pre-paied need to be beaten too ..12:54
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mecewho's ordering what now?12:54
rashed2020Why is it nonexisting?12:55
cehtehdunno how its called in english but i ordered by 'nachname' means i have to pay the delivery sevice in cash when it comes12:55
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rashed2020It's called Cash on Delivery :P12:56
cehtehrashed2020: non-available then .. well at the time people pre-ordered it was virtually non existing, except for preproduction development samples12:56
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Dantonichey anyone know the difference between invisishield and durasec screen protectors?13:00
ShapeshifterDantonic: the durasec doesn't fit right, iirc.13:05
Shapeshifterit's too big.13:05
wrapsterhow do i port python app to maemo13:05
asidjazzany1 here successful flashed an n90013:05
asidjazz"suitable usb device not found, waiting"13:05
wrapsteri have a py app now... but how do i port it13:06
DantonicShapeshifter, I'm concerned about the touch sensitivity after application of an invisishield...13:06
Stskeepsasidjazz: what OS?13:06
Stskeepsand 32 or 64 bit?13:06
jaemasidjazz, yep, once13:06
jaemon Windows13:06
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jaemhaven't tried Linux flasher yet13:06
Stskeepsasidjazz: there's a big thread on somewhere on this issue13:07
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ShapeshifterDantonic: from all I read, *touch* sensitivity is almost unaffected when applying almost any protector, while moving the stylus around (swiping, painting) is affected especially by the invisible-shield rubbery type of protector.13:08
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ShapeshifterI will probably get myself a multipack of "clear" protectors. Those which are rather scratchable (but I'll keep the phone in a pouch anyway), but which are thin and really invisible.13:09
ShapeshifterI can always change it if it's gone bad.13:09
mecewrapster, you can just run the py app.13:09
DantonicShapeshifter, well I've never used a protector, so I have no idea what they feel like or what to choose...13:09
Dantonicah sounds interesting, any particular brand you use?13:10
ShapeshifterDantonic: me neither, but you get the idea from the videos. thos "military" types are rubbery and sticky13:10
DantonicI'm planning on a pouch as well13:10
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ShapeshifterDantonic: nah. I think I'd like a boxwave cleartouch crystal clear13:10
Shapeshifterbut boxwave doesn't offer them yet.13:11
DangerMausboxwave when the come out with csomething13:11
Shapeshifter you could vote here if you like. The antiglare is supposed to be great13:11
Shapeshifterthough on such a dense-pixel device it might actually impair the picture quality13:11
DangerMausfound a place t o grab up a screen protector from dont know how good it is but better than scratching the screen13:11
Shapeshifterso I won't get that.13:12
mecerashed2020, *sigh* don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see that thread...13:12
DangerMausalready voted Shapeshifter13:12
Dantonicwell with the N800 I never used a screen protector, and I kept it pretty scratch free13:12
Dantonicexcept for the right side where the scroll menu is.. some scratches due to stylus13:12
rashed2020mece: Meh. Feeling anything towards it means you still care too much about stupid people.13:12
rashed2020Does anyone have a Maemo device on Tmobile (USA) ?13:13
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DangerMausditto rashed202013:13
DangerMauswhats tmo like i got no plan yet13:13
ShapeshifterI'm giving up. I'm giving the n900 a new arrival date of January 13th.13:13
Shapeshifterhope that is safe.13:14
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Shapeshifterelse I'm going mad.13:14
rashed2020I think they're alright. I live in downtown philly so I'm pretty covered. I just wanna know if the phones are NAT'd.13:14
DangerMauslol you selling them?13:14
ShapeshifterDangerMaus: no, I want one13:14
Shapeshifterbut as accuarate as the dates are, anyone can set them, right?13:14
rashed2020Shapeshifter: Someone I know ordered it and got it in 3 or so days.13:14
Shapeshifterrashed2020: not in Switzerland -.-13:14
DangerMausahh yes he's in .ch13:15
rashed2020You guys should be getting them before us, though. Nokia likes Europe more.13:15
DangerMausrashed2020, got it in bout 24h13:15
Shapeshifterthey said it should be here yesterday. even when people called in. Now they say they didn't get the batch from the supplier and don't know anything about when it's going to arrive. Well at least it's "don't know" now, and not "tomorrow, for sure" -.-13:15
rashed2020DangerMaus: Where'd you order it from?13:15
Shapeshifterrashed2020: nah, the US got it first13:16
Shapeshifterby a mile13:16
DangerMausnokiausa monday got it tuesday at bout noon13:16
rashed2020Yeah, I can see that now :P13:16
ShapeshifterI think only australia and canada will come after Europe13:16
Shapeshifteran places like zimbabwe >.>13:16
rashed2020DangerMaus: I'm still undecided on whether I should get it or not. I have a G1.13:16
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ccookeGood Morning13:16
rashed2020Everyone knows Nigeria and *NOT* Zimbabwe have the newest technology.13:16
DangerMausim function yesterday today on wifi13:16
DangerMausand skype13:17
DangerMausit nicely locks on to any and every open wifi13:17
rashed2020I'll be using 3G, mostly.13:17
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DangerMausbut not on tmo yet didnt want a plan and no phone13:18
* SpeedEvil found cheap deal in the UK.13:18
SpeedEvil(for connection)13:18
w00thooray for processing email13:18
Lynoure3G seems battery intensive for data.13:18
rashed2020Wifi is battery intensive for everything.13:19
SpeedEvilLynoure: pretty much unless you're close to the reciever13:19
DangerMausrashed2020, and tmo seems to have basic data in the woods where i play unlike att13:19
plastunI want ot make gtkLabel as link. I use pango markup languageand tag 'a'. When i run my app in maemo, i have error, which says, that "unknown tag a". ???13:19
tigertwhat is most battery sensitive is using the device - it goes to sleep modes of various depths when idle13:19
rashed2020DangerMaus: Again, I live downtown :P13:20
rashed2020City life, bebeh!13:20
tigerthas anyone noted a difference between 3G and GPRS?13:20
DangerMausi live downtown too but ploay in the woods13:20
rashed2020tigert: You'd have to be delusional to not notice a difference.13:20
tigertin battery life btw? my N95 battery appreciated non-3G13:20
rashed2020Oh :P13:20
rashed2020Yeah, I still see a difference.13:21
tigertedge is just way slow :/13:21
SpeedEvilIs there a /proc or /sys node with battery state?13:21
DangerMauslike email vs full blown broadband13:21
rashed2020Just so I get this straight, Maemo is proper proper Linux?13:21
asidjazzi flashed my n900 and my bookmarks are still there13:21
rashed2020Just with a different WM and DE?13:21
asidjazzlinux debian + gtk hildon13:22
rashed2020I find that insanely hard to believe.13:22
rashed2020That's just such a cool idea.13:22
SpeedEvilrashed2020: yes13:22
DangerMausjust dont install pkgs to /usr13:22
Stskeepswell, modified debian13:22
tigertmaemo is NOT debian13:22
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rashed2020So the debian ARM repos are good?13:22
tigertapt-get dist-upgrade will not be something you do13:22
Stskeepsrashed2020: no, but easy debian exists13:22
tigertit uses dpkg and debian stuff quite heavily13:23
SpeedEvilrashed2020: I'm ssh'd into my n900, with 3 or 4 browsers running. Nice.13:23
tigertbut it is not debian13:23
tigertbut yes, it is as "linux" as anything13:23
tigertrashed2020: so debian arm repositories wont work13:23
kyndeanyone had success compiling additional kernel modules for the n900 kernel? (the 2.6.28-20094102.3+0m5 being the latest, I presume)13:23
tigertthere was some package that let you run them wiht a chrooted debian easily13:24
asidjazzits linux tigert13:24
Stskeepskynde: mashiara was working on it13:24
asidjazzand it uses alot of debian distro functionality13:24
zaheer_tigert, thx for your droid sans mono tip for terminal!13:24
asidjazzmaking it debian distro of linux13:24
asidjazz on a phone13:24
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rashed2020tigert: Yeah. That looks like what's in Stskeeps's link. Easy Debian.13:24
kyndeStskeeps: yeah, I stumbled on to your irc log about it and seems like he had similar issues.13:24
mashiarakynde: yes and no,13:24
kyndemashiara: oh, you're here, too, good.13:24
rashed2020Aw man I can't wait to get this phone.13:24
tigertasidjazz: let me rephrase: it is not necessarily debian compatible13:25
rashed2020I was THIS close to getting the N810 but backed out cuz it wasn't a phone.13:25
tigertie, dependencies etc wont necessarily work13:25
tigertbetween maemo and debian13:25
rashed2020Just say Debian based :P13:25
mashiarakynde: I'm kinda busy now, if flandry is here he has the steps I took to compile joydev.ko for him13:25
tigertstuff is packaged differently here and there13:25
tigertzaheer_: :)13:25
tigertrashed2020: yeah, easydebian, i havent tried it myself, but maybe I should13:25
zaheer_tigert, also noticed i could make it white on black!13:26
rashed2020I wanna make it neon green on black!13:26
rashed2020With transparency :P13:26
tigertzaheer_: sure :)13:26
rashed2020And Compiz effects.13:26
asidjazzwtf is flashing even for13:26
asidjazznothing is removed off my phone13:26
kyndemashiara: ack. the maemo 5.0 kernel guide wiki appears to have some flaws. it uses kernel extraversion -maemo2 but I have -omap1 in my device.13:26
tigertzaheer_: but that wasnt so hard to discover, wasnt it? :)13:26
asidjazzi still have all my contacts and freakin files in my home dir13:26
rashed2020asidjazz: Just the system files?13:26
zaheer_tigert, to be honest, i never bothered to check the font menu13:26
Stskeepsasidjazz: if you want to remove some config stuff, you need to flash eMMC too13:26
tigertasidjazz: your contacts are in emmc13:26
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asidjazzoh eMMC13:26
asidjazzwhat else is in eMMC13:27
Stskeepsasidjazz: it's to avoid you shooting yourself in the foot too much13:27
asidjazzbesides bookmarks and contacts13:27
tigertI dont know if emmc flashable images are public though13:27
timeless_mbpmanagement decided the embarrassment that is clock should be ... well, addressed13:27
asidjazzwhat about installed apps13:27
Stskeepsasidjazz: your files, etc13:27
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mashiarakynde: yes, it's kinda dated... leave extraversion empty and the Makefile will set it to -omap113:27
asidjazzwere those removed13:27
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tigertasidjazz: apps you lose when you flash13:27
asidjazzk good13:27
tigertbut restore a backup, it restores your instaled apps list, and repositories13:27
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tigertso you can "restore applications" wiht app manager later13:27
asidjazzwhy do we call this flashing13:28
mashiarakynde: be warned though, so far I have not managed to compile working nf_conntrack for example (for the stock kernel, now my N900 is running a custom one...)13:28
Stskeepsasidjazz: cos you actually 'flash' the internal NAND13:28
asidjazzwe should call it "kinda not do much at all"13:28
tigertemmc has /home/user (ext2 iirc) and /home/user/MyDocs13:28
kyndemashiara: ok. nf_conntrack is what I'm working on, too.13:28
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tigertMyDocs is the usb-storage partition that is FAT13:28
rashed2020I'm sorta confused about PyMaemo. Is it included by default or not?13:28
tigertasidjazz: it flashes the root partition and bootloader and other stuff13:29
mashiarakynde: oh.... then see and v13:29
mashiarakynde: and
kyndethe custom works ok? I mean, the phone and related modules are ok and intact? Didn't have the guts to flash it.13:29
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asidjazzflashing it should replace the entire phone w/ a stock default image13:29
kynde... just yet, that is, since I haven't back shit up yet. I'm well acquainted with kernel and modules, especially on a n810, but the issues I'm facing with the conntrack seem odd.13:29
tigertasidjazz: flashing wont replace memory cards13:30
asidjazzthis is more getting naked in a trenchcoat ..13:30
mashiarakynde: you can flash just the kernel without messing with the rootfs13:30
tigertasidjazz: thats what the eMMC is, its just soldered in though13:30
tigertbut its for your data13:30
mashiaraand you can extract the stock kernel from the Fiasco (combined kernel and rootfs) image13:30
Stskeepsasidjazz: when you flash emmc, it should be stock13:30
kyndemashiara: I know. It's just that I really would've liked to just add the necessary and new modules. I'm a little baffled as to why the nf_conntrack (and even x_tables) don't work if I build them in scratchbox.13:31
asidjazzmm yea cnat find an emmc image13:31
asidjazztnx for hte help guys13:31
mashiarakynde: odd issues with conntrack, yes! I was thinking I was going crazy or maybe my SB was messing stuff up13:31
tigertoh yea13:31
tigertthere is the emmc image too13:31
tigertasidjazz: its in the same spot13:31
asidjazzif its not that public and supported Stskeeps i dont wanna risk bricking this thing13:31
mashiarakynde: I have no idea why it goes wrong and I'm not really a kernel hacker13:31
asidjazzi was reading
mashiarakynde: but if you figure it out I will be very happy13:32
asidjazzoh nice13:32
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mashiarakynde: mainly so that the mobilehotspot project can be used also by the timid ones13:32
Stskeepsasidjazz: i highly doubt flashing voids warranty13:32
kyndemashiara: I'll keep trying, but I'm getting more and more confident that I'm forced to flash the kernel, too.13:32
asidjazzno way im dealing w/ that right now :)13:32
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mashiarakynde: really, flashing the kernel is not a big issue but it's a bit of a hassle13:33
tigertasidjazz: why would you want to flash unless there were an update anyway?13:33
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kyndemashiara: yeah, no worries there, I was on suspicious about the phone/gsm stuff, incase there were some closed / binary-only modules I'd have to worry about.13:34
rashed2020Does Maemo do some voodoo with Python apps so they all run under one interpreter? Or is it one interpreter/app?13:34
mashiarakynde: and in harmatten running unsigned kernels while possible is not really an option for the general user13:34
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xorAxAxcehteh: hi13:34
kyndemashiara: shit, really?13:34
kyndemashiara: they're closing kernel?13:34
mashiarakynde: no13:34
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Stskeepskynde: no, it's way more complicated than that :P you can still run your wn kernel if you want to get rid of DRM13:35
mashiarakynde & stskeeps: I was talking with the researcher after the harmattan security framework presentation13:36
asidjazzthere an easy way to delete all my contacts13:36
asidjazzthe somewhere in /home/user13:36
asidjazztigert: i just wanted to completely reset the phone13:36
Stskeepsasidjazz: flash emmc and that should do i13:36
asidjazztigert: ivew been messin w/ it too much13:36
mashiarakynde & stskeeps: it's in many ways very sensible system and a good compromise. But if for the user flashing unsigned kernel means losing access to any content in secure storage stored before flashing it's a no-go13:37
mashiarakynde & stskeeps: of course they can flash a signed kernel back and get it all back13:37
tigertasidjazz: then flash the 42-11 image and then the emmc13:37
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Stskeepsmashiara: losing access to any content in the DRM keys stuff is obvious13:37
mashiarastskeeps: to us...13:38
jaskaid prefer not having any drm trash on any system whatsoever :)13:38
mashiarajaska: you can use it for your own benefit too13:38
krigyeah..good riddanc13:38
tigertmashiara: "flashing kernel" is not obvious to regular users anyway13:38
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tigertmost people run a stock one anyway13:39
mashiarajaska: the secure storage APIs are very generic and usable for many pro-user use cases as well13:39
mashiaratigert: I was wondering since just about everything is updateable OTA, maybe the kernel can be flashed too ?13:39
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RST38h--= Deliver our first Maemo 6-powered mobile computer, with an iconic user experience, in the second half of 2010 =--13:40
mashiaratigert: haven't had the time to dig out the details and even if it's possible it probably is (or should be) locked to some signed stuff13:40
tigertmashiara: sure it can, but for regular users the "flashable image" does it for you13:40
RST38hStatement made by Nokia.13:40
StskeepsRST38h: yay, roadmaps13:40
tigertit updates the kernel (if there is an updated kernel in the image, of course) and everything else13:40
RST38hStskeeps: So, I am taking my words back: it looks like that sole 2010 device will be Maemo6 after all13:41
lizardorashed2020: it is one interpreter running per application13:41
RST38hStskeeps: (will it mean another rushed release and delays though?)13:41
StskeepsRST38h: first m6 device they say though13:41
RST38hStskeeps: Yea, so no keyboardless N900 I guess?13:42
StskeepsRST38h: nfi? :P13:42
tigertRST38h: you imply that there has been a maemo device release in the past _without_ rush? :D13:43
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RST38htigert: awwwww... :)13:43
CoreFusion-The N920 should be coming13:43
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Stskeepszerojay: the 1 week warranty is mentioned earlier in the thread and seems sadly to be true13:44
odin_when?  on N920 and whats the main difference ?13:44
CoreFusion-N920 doesn't have keyboard13:44
CoreFusion-But I don't know exactly when it's coming13:44
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odin_what are the targets for maemo6 ?  i.e. what changes are planned in roadmap?13:45
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kyndeI could live with not toying around with the kernel, I'm already mainitaining enough kernel variants as it is, aslong as I'd atleast get lacking stuff back in as modules atleast.13:45
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CoreFusion-I have no idea, all I know is that they are working hard with Maemo 6 already13:46
odin_kynde, even if they are not skipped on the device, they should be put up for download13:46
infobotodin_ meant: kynde, even if they are not shipped on the device, they should be put up for download13:47
Hiistybut can n900 be upgraded to maemo6 ?13:47
RST38hnobody knows13:47
RST38halso, it is a faq13:47
odin_the only issue is when some module cause increased kernel image/data size (even though the main code is a module)13:47
meceok I think I found out why I can't import osso in python. osso directory is missing it appears13:48
tigertkynde: compiling the kernel was fun in 199613:48
odin_maybe a range of kernels should be built, the "release" one and a "developer" one with more stuff built at modules13:48
tigertkynde: sure there are  valid reasons to build a custom kernel sometimes for specific cases13:48
RST38hLast thing I heard was that Maemo6 will make so heavy use of multitouch UI that N900 simply won't be sufficient13:48
tigertkynde: but I am pretty sure the kernel and all stuff in N900 is tuned pretty well to work with the hw in the official images13:48
odin_is N920 to be capacative screen ?13:49
RST38htigert: Hey, kids are still having fun compiling kernels, it replaces masturbation13:49
odin_is that question in FAQ ?13:49
RST38hodin: What is N920?13:49
kyndetigers: absolutely. It's a travesty if they should drop that possibility.13:49
tigertRST38h: exactly, and makes you look cool when you can say you did it :)13:49
RST38htigert: That I never understood13:49
odin_CoreFusion-, said N920 first, ask him13:49
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RST38hodin: You go ask.13:50
tigertRST38h: it might make sense for the pc you built13:50
tigertRST38h: but for a nokia kernel for a nokia device,13:50
RST38hodin; When you figure it out, come back with your question13:50
tigertI would assume they got their kernel parameters figured out13:50
tigertour core guys are not idiots :)13:50
RST38htigert: Would not assume that13:50
odin_RST38h, which question ?13:50
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tigertand like I said, there are cases when you need something specific, but that is not for joe average anyway13:50
RST38htigert: I once had to compile FreeBSD kernel because the release version had sysV IPC disabled for some reason13:51
RST38htigert: For unknown reasons, somebody probably thought it was unsecure13:51
tigertRST38h: :) thats bsd for you :)13:51
RST38hSo, yes, there is still a possibility you will need to recompile, but it is pretty tiny13:51
RST38hodin: Good, figure that out too.13:52
kyndeRST38h: but it's still a kernel. you give me a linux device and cripple it by disallowing kernel modifications is not that much different from giving me a windows device.13:52
RST38hkynde: AFAIK you CAN recompile Maemo5 kernel13:52
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odin_RST38h, I think you are just confusing things more, I don't believe I need to take any of the actions you are asking me to take, so place stop assiting me (telling me what I should do)13:53
RST38hkynde: But I have no idea how you equate inability to compile kernel and windows ce13:53
kyndebut that cripples drm related stuff, then, or did I miss something. I'm not well acquainted with this harmattan drm stuff, just heard about it.13:53
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* RST38h straightens his hat and laughs diabolically13:53
lizardomece: which python-osso version are you using ?13:53
tigertharmattan has nothing to do with reflashing or compiling N900 kernel13:53
RST38hkynde: AFAIK Maemo5 still does not have DRM13:53
RST38hMaemo6 will13:54
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odin_yeah that was a gentlemanly "f**k awf"  ha ha13:54
mecelizardo, dunno. I did apt-get install python-osso13:54
lizardomece: dpkg -l python-osso will tell it :)13:54
mecek. hold on13:54
* kynde is baffled. harmattan is maemo6, right. and someone just said that using custom kernel there disables drm?13:55
infobot[codenames] buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2),  Woody=Stable (3.0) Sarge=Testing Unstable=Sid, or see tsc_codenames for those of the technical support crews13:55
mecelizardo, 0.4-0maemo113:55
odin_infobot codenames is
infobot...but codenames is already something else...13:55
lizardomece: do you have the "extras-devel" reposotory in your sources.list ?13:56
odin_infobot you are stupid13:56
infobotodin_: what are you talking about?13:56
mecelizardo, nope13:56
mecelizardo, funnily the other N900 i'm comparing with has the same version, and is not missing the init files13:57
lizardomece: for Python development on Maemo, I suggest you have it enabled, there are some fixes to packages there that are not yet on extras-testing/extras13:57
odin_has anyone hooked up infobot to ?  can anyone?13:57
lizardomece: both do not have extras-devel ?13:57
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odin_is extras-devel working ?  I set it up but I get an error I have "user" "free" and "non-free" setup13:58
kyndeRST38h: where did I go wrong? doesn't the drm equate to reduced possibilities of using custom kernels? or when using custom kernels, there'll be lack of features otherwise present in the device?13:58
mecelizardo, that's right. But I'm not sure if testing has been enabled at a point in the other device. I't snot mine.13:58
mecelizardo, would not the version be different then?13:58
lizardomece: yes, in that case you would have the 0.4.0-0maemo2 version installed13:59
mecelizardo, ok so since there is the exact same version of python-osso in both devices, but one is missing the init files, what has gone wrong?14:00
lizardomece: but python-osso uses python-central  to create that file, and the problem might be that you are using an older python-central version...14:00
lizardomece: anyway, I'll try to reproduce the problem here14:00
mecelizardo, perhaps I don't have python-central14:01
lizardomece: well, you should have, because python-osso depends on it :)14:01
lizardomece: otherwise it would not install14:01
mecelizardo, lol right :D14:01
lizardomece: can you check your python-central version ?  (dpkg -l python-central)14:02
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lizardomece: ok, here I have (again, took from extras-devel)14:02
lizardomece: ideally, we will have all these updates in extras-testing some day14:02
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jrochalizardo, hi there14:03
lizardomece: it just happens that these packages are not being automatically promoted to extras-testing as they should14:03
mecelizardo, nod. Are there some other version in testing?14:03
lizardojrocha: hi14:03
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jrochalizardo, about python 2.3 in SB, do I have it because I've been upgrading SB since a while now or is it normal for it to be there14:04
lizardofrom  "The proxy server did not receive a timely response from the upstream server." :/14:04
jrochalizardo, how can I set the 2.5 as the default and ever used one14:04
mecelizardo, I'll try to remove python-central and reinstall this and see if it helps.14:04
jrochalizardo, the 2.3 is messing with me when I try to generate debian files for a python pet project14:04
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lizardojrocha: python2.3 has always been there  , and it has always been a nightmare for python developers because of that :)14:05
lizardojrocha: short answer is : always use python2.5 explicitely14:05
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lizardojrocha: do you use CDBS for the packaging ?14:05
jrochalizardo, yes14:05
jrochawell, I use it together with a setup script14:06
lizardojrocha: ok, you have too options14:06
lizardojrocha: add "cdbs_python_compile_version = 2.5"  to your debian/rules14:06
lizardojrocha: or14:06
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lizardojrocha: add this nice hack^H^H^Htrick to your debian/rules:14:07
lizardo# workaround to avoid calling Scratchbox python2.314:07
lizardoPATH := /usr/bin:$(PATH)14:07
lizardoexport PATH14:07
lizardoSBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE = /usr/bin/python14:07
lizardoexport SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE14:07
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tigertodin_: just free non-free afaik14:08
jrochalizardo, nice, thanks14:08
jrochalizardo, I will try that later14:08
lizardojrocha: just be careful with the second option, because unfortunately scratchbox uses python for some of it internal tools and those tools might fail if they are called by debian/rules at some point14:08
lizardojrocha: but both worked for me so far :)14:08
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jrochalizardo, btw, do you think that this might be what's causing my debian package to link the destiny paths for my packages as: /scratchbox/user/..../python2.3....14:09
lizardojrocha: yes, I'm sure :)14:09
lizardojrocha: because those paths are taken from the running interpreter14:10
jrochalizardo, I get the whole path from /scratchbox instead of the relative /usr/lib/python2.5...14:10
jrochalizardo, I see14:10
lizardojrocha: and inside scratchbox python == python2.3 (even if you call /usr/bin/python !)14:10
jrochalizardo, nice, I'll try your suggestions. hopefully you'll save my day14:11
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maki1908_sorry for interrupt, Im new here, and I have problem with this "SBOX_CPU TRANSPARENCY _ METHOD not set" =)14:12
mecelizardo, python-osso seems to install completely separate from python-central14:12
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maki1908_can somebody help =)14:12
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maki1908_how can i setup transparency method for FREMANTLE X8614:13
lizardomece: oh, now I see14:14
lizardomece: there is a bug in that python-osso version14:14
lizardomece: it lacks the necessary depends on python-central :(14:14
mecelizardo, good to know.14:14
lizardomece: but it was fixed on maemo214:14
lizardomece: so one more reason to push python-osso into extras-testing ASAP :)14:14
mecelizardo, so I'll just activate devel and install python-osso from there, and then disable it again, and I should be golden?14:15
lizardomece: it should work ;)14:15
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lizardomece: or you can download directly from14:16
lizardomece: and "dpkg -i python-osso_0.4-0maemo2_armel.deb"14:16
mecelizardo, yeah I' was just doing that :)14:16
mecelizardo, thanks14:17
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meceWohoo! Works :D14:20
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Blasthello all...14:22
BlastI have a small question...14:22
Blastprovided the N900 can vibrate... is there an API for that? And where's the doc?14:22
jaemBlast, mce?14:22
jaemI think?14:22
jaemI imagine you'd use DBus14:22
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jaemlook up MCE14:22
jaemit also controls the LED14:23
Blastmee too I'd imagine that... but haven't found any good info, apart from the possibility to use vibra plugins...14:23
jaemwell, take a look-see in /etc/mce/mce.ini, for starters14:23
Blasthow about that?
BlastVibra notification plugin: Emits bursts of vibration and controls the vibration hw.14:23
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BlastI read the SDK 5 should have a Vibration API14:26
Blastam I wrong?14:26
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jaemjust looking14:26
Blastif it's thru DBus, I see no reason to call it an API... (thanks for looking anyway...)14:26
jaemtake a look at
jaemwell, DBus is a form of API - just not in the traditional sense14:27
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jaemI guess qualifying it with the prefix "DBus" would make "API" a bit more clear, though14:27
plr_hmm pdf reader is quite basic one - Zoom can only be 50, 100, 150% etc. and scrollin from one page to another is not possible, you have to press a virtual button to get to the next page (which forces you to close the full screen) ..14:28
plr_is there any other choices?14:28
SpeedEvilswipe not work?14:28
kyndemashiara: I'm not entirely certain what's going on with the scratchbox kernel compilation. Since I build the rx51_defconfig as-is and the modules it spews out are considerably different from those in kernel-modules 2.6.28-20094102.3+0m514:28
tigertplr_: yeah, it is one of those things that didnt get much updates from previous releases14:28
jaemplr_, I don't know if anything else is ported yet, but probably soon14:28
plr_SpeedEvil: it will work to scroll the page you are on, but then it will not change the page14:29
jaemtigert, yeah, I noticed14:29
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tigertwould be nice to have a good pannable & swipeable one14:29
Blastjaem... looking :)14:30
mikhasfree zooming for the pdf reader would be more important for now14:30
mikhasotherwise you have to make your presentations to exactly with the given zoom levels of the pdf reader =/14:30
mikhas*to exactly match14:31
plr_can fbreader open pdf's?14:31
Blastjaem... it is definitely there.. I suppose it's the only way... gonna have a look at some examples thou...14:31
plr_mikhas I agree14:31
Blastif you happen to have any ... it would be great... :)14:31
mikhasfile an enhancement request at b.m.o? if it isnt there already =)14:32
plr_I instantly tried the web browser circle zoom, but nothing happened14:32
mikhasoh yeah, same here!14:32
mikhasbrowser gestures are addictive14:32
LynoureIs there a user's guide to N900 somewhere?14:32
tigertmikhas: ideally it should column-zoom just like the browser14:32
tigertLynoure: in your N900?14:32
LynoureI got mine on loan, so did not get anything other than a quick start guide...14:33
jaemBlast, you said you don't have an N900, right?14:33
tigertLynoure: look into Documents14:33
Blastno, I don't...14:33
meceis there nano for N900?14:33
Blastit's arriving :)14:33
mikhastrue, tigert. but it is a bit harder to detect columns in a PDF14:33
mikhasat least I think it is14:33
tigertmikhas: yeah I suppose14:33
plr_reflow would be nice as well..14:33
jaemBlast, have you used DBus before?14:33
SpeedEvilpdf is silly on mobile devices14:33
tigertreflow for pdf is not really sensible14:33
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Lynouretigert: oh my :)14:34
SpeedEvilactually no.14:34
Lynourereflow can be sensible...14:34
tigertas layout is an important part of the document format14:34
SpeedEvilPDF is utterly broken on mobile devices14:34
Blastjaem, nope.. that's the reason I was hoping for some straight API.. :)14:34
Lynourebut seems to wreck code examples often14:34
tigertit would then not be "pdf viewer"14:34
tigertnow, rendering the _content_ in another form might be14:34
Lynouremany people use pdf for something plain text or html would suffice for14:34
jaemBlast, okay, well, check over http://dbus.freedesktop.org14:34
tigertLynoure: I am a designer, I use pdfs for print etc...14:34
Lynoureand for those pdfs, reflow is goodness :)14:35
tigertyou dont want to reflow those :)14:35
Blastjaem, ok, thank you so much...14:35
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tigertbut there are different use cases for pdf for sure14:35
jaemand KDE's Techbase Wiki has some good info, although the examples are all Qt-specific14:35
jaemBlast, I've spent the last four days tearing my hair out over DBus, but now I actually get it :)14:35
jaemit's a bit confusing at first14:35
jaembut here's something to get you started, when you get your device14:35
jaemyou'll want to save this somewhere14:35
jaemto turn the vibe on:14:36
jaemfrom the command line, that is14:36
Blastjaem... I haven't been to sincere... been using HAL... but just from the user side, no coding experience...14:36
jaemdbus-send --system /com/nokia/mce/request string:PatternIncomingCall14:37
jaem--system means the system bus (not the session bus)14:37
Blastoh, wow :)14:37
jaem--dest is the remote object you're accessing14:37
Blastthat will save my day as soon as I start coding!14:37
infobotjaem meant: --dest is the remote service you're accessing14:37
jaem /com/nokia/mce/request is the path to the *object* you want to call a method of14:38
jaemand is the fully qualified method name14:38
jaem(qualified with the name of the interface that the object implements to provide that method14:38
jaemafter that is just arguments14:39
jaemhopefully that will wet your feet, so to speak14:39
Blastso I suppose including a dbus api would be enough to send a message14:39
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Blastto the service I require...14:39
jaemone sec14:39
jaemnot exactly14:40
jaemDBus is a bit weird14:40
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Blasteheh too good to be true ;)14:40
jaemthe simple way to do things is to use your language's DBus bindings to create a DBus message, fill it with arguments, and send it off14:41
jaemthe proper way to do things is to generate a wrapper class, or "proxy" (to the remote object)14:41
jaemthat normally requires a feature that Nokia probably hasn't implemented :P14:41
jaemlook up the Introspection section of the DBus Spec in the link I gave you14:42
Blastin my case, if one can define vib-patterns it should be enough to send simple messages...14:42
jaemyou'll probably have to write the XML yourself, but the examples cover the basic cases14:42
Blastthat will not be a huge problem...14:43
jaemBlast, patterns can be defined in /etc/mce/mce.ini14:43
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jaemthen you just reference them by name in the DBus call14:43
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jaemas I said, mess around with DBus - it might take a bit of getting used to14:43
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jaemoh, and you probably should know this14:44
jaemif you run that command, your phone will vibrate for all eternity14:44
jaemso you'll want to run a similar command with the word "activate" changed to "deactivate" :P14:45
Blastjust to understand... where did you read about the: "" ?14:45
jaemalso, I think I made a typo in that, but it should be obvious, and I'm too tired to care14:45
jaemgood luck14:45
jaemreq_vibrator_pattern_activate is the method14:46
jaemline 41114:46
Blastok, found it...14:46
Blastthank you, u have been really appreciated!14:46
Blastcan't wait to get my hands on N900...14:47
jaemit takes some form of string as a parameter, but what that is depends on your language14:47
jaemBlast, I'm sure you'll like it14:47
Blastas I ordered from the states...14:47
jaemI was lucky enough to get mine prerelease, and it's awesome :)14:47
Blast(I'm in italy)14:47
Blastand it will be remailed to me...14:47
jaemBlast, I know, I just checked ;)14:47
Blastshould the guy sending it over check for something14:47
Blastbefore he ships it along?14:48
jaemwhat do you mean?14:48
Blast(heard about the mic failing...)14:48
jaemhmm... haven't had any hardware issues14:48
SpeedEvilI'm trying to enable extras testing. As outlined in
Blastsome preliminary checks... possibly make a phone call?14:48
jaemBlast, sure, why not, if you want14:48
SpeedEvilI setup the repo in the application manager, hit update, and it comes back with errors - I check the errors, and find I'm getting 404s14:48
Blastif there's some other common major problem...14:48
jaemblast, by the way, if you're interested in DBus, watch my blog in the next while (
jaemI'm crazy busy with exams and such now, but I'm planning on doing some articles about it14:49
jaemto save other people like you the hassle I went throutgh14:49
Blastnow that's GNU Talking!14:49
VReBlast: hope so, mine has broken earpiece. Waiting for friday to see if I can get one from the shop so I can return this.14:49
BlastVRe... so you suggest I shall ask the guy to use it a bit before sending?14:50
jaemanyhow, it's almost 5am here, so I should get some sleep14:50
Blast(gonna have trouble with the warranty in europe if it is a US model)14:50
Blastjaem, thank you REALLY much14:51
jaemBlast, ahahaahaah14:51
jaemyou don't know the half of it14:51
VReBlast: I would..14:51
jaemwarrantying a US model in *Canada* almost cost me $60 in UPS ransom14:51
jaemluckily I got that sorted out14:51
Blastjaem, just imagine... the cost in italy is the same... except that it's in euros!14:51
jaemBlast, you're welcome - good that you caught me.  I have finally grokked the way of the DBus, and it is good - I just hope you don't have to spend as much time as I did on it14:52
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jaemBlast, lol14:52
Blastlook: - $569.0014:52
SpeedEvilOn the topic of my last query. Fremantle is a silly name.14:53 - €599,0014:53
Blastand, on top of that... does not deliver yet!14:53
w00tSpeedEvil: 'SpeedEvil' is a bit meh too14:53
Blastoh, I have another silly question... what's the N900 Bootloader?14:54
mececan you use checkinstall in sb?14:54
Blastcan it be reflashed?14:54
SpeedEvilI couldn't spot that 'freemantle' was a typo14:54
StskeepsBlast: you don't want to, it loads a zImage and that's about what you need to know :P14:54
Stskeepsand provides a way to save your ass when you have bricked your device14:55
BlastStskeeps, how about to load an alternative zImage?14:55
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Blastor possibly an alternative initrd?14:55
jaemBlast, what he's saying is yes, but it *will* eat your hamster if you try14:55
Blastlike having 2 kernels available...14:56
Blastisn't there an option for that?14:56
jebba900blast yes u can14:56
StskeepsBlast: no, it loads one kernel, either from NAND or USB14:56
StskeepsBlast: you can install your own kernel though14:57
jebba900search alternative bootloader in the wiki14:57
BlastNO-LO ... I suppose it resembles LI-LO14:57
StskeepsBlast: you can install boot menu if you want though, but not for kernels :/14:57
Blastoh, btw, I really think the maemo website14:58
Blastis VERY messy14:58
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BlastI don't think a wiki was a good choice for such a MASSIVE project14:58
StskeepsBlast: uhm.. there's and wiki.maemo.org14:58
RST38hSo, what disasters struck Maemoworld while I was working?14:59
BlastNoLo bootloader not only is proprietary and sucky, there's almost no documentation available for it anywhere.14:59
Blastgood starting point! ;)14:59
meceBlast, well nolo means embarrassed, so I suppose it does suck :D15:00
jaemBlast, NoLo stands for "Nokia Loader", I believe15:00
jaemmece, which language?15:00
mecejaem, finnish, duh :P15:01
jaemmece, lol15:01
tigertnolo means embarassing in finnish15:01
tigertor embarassed yeah15:01
mece's what i said15:01
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meceanyway, I was wondering do the debian armel builds work in maemo? Like nano for example.15:02
BlastI plan to work with a crypted fs...15:02
Blastso the boot loader is a point I will have to deal with in the next future...15:03
Blastpossibly bypassed by a good working init script... but who knows... :)15:03
tigertyou want this for protection of your files?15:03
jaemBlast, if you find a way to do that, I'd be quite interested :)15:03
tigertmaybe try mounting /home/user with some crypt thing?15:04
Blastjaem, that will be my main goal...15:05
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Blasttigert, /home? mmm15:05
SpeedEvilmount /home/user -o encryption=rot1315:05
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mecewoo nano :D15:05
BlastI was planning for / <-15:05
mecevi was making me want to do drugs.15:06
Blastoh, btw, could someone paste a default "fdisk -ul" for N900?15:06
Blastjust to pre-realize what I am going to mess with :)15:06
SpeedEvilfdisk -ul15:06
SpeedEvil-sh: fdisk: not found15:06
Blastoh :)15:06
jaemcfdisk is available15:06
Blastcfdisk would do...15:07
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Blastis that original? untouched?15:10
Blastcould you also paste a "mount" output?15:10
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SpeedEvilno, I've installed maybe 20M of stuff15:10
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BlastSpeedEvil, no, I mean if you had repartioned...15:11
SpeedEvilah - no15:11
Blastgotta get used to that...15:12
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Blast... /home/user ... wtf! "user" ...15:12
mecelatest linux mag has a tutorial for making Qt apps for maemo I hear. Something I find promising for the platform :)15:12
StskeepsBlast: welcome to maemo15:12
Blasti've had /home/manu for the past 10 years15:12
Blastand I don't plan to symlink me!15:13
meceBlast, useradd -d /home/manu manu15:13
Blastmece, what about "MyDocs" ?15:13
Blastnah... the partition table need a major rethink...15:13
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* SpeedEvil installs mbarcode.15:14
SpeedEvilOooh - portrait mode!15:14
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mecegrr argh why does all my debs install crap into local?15:15
BlastThank you guys... very helpful... going out for lunch...15:15
Blasthave a nice day/night... depending on your location ;)15:15
VRemece: qt is quite simple. Just make software on desktop and then compile in scrachbox. Should work quite well from the box.15:17
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meceVRe, so I hear. I just think it's nice that Linux Magazine promotes maemo.15:18
VReI don't think they promote. They write arcticles to get readers.15:19
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meceVRe, it's still promoting.15:21
VRewell, then they for sure promoted already during 770 days. Tablet with linux and all..15:22
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* frals_ is waiting for talk to explode with "maemo6 device 2h2010"15:38
tKMFDMRST38h, mephedrone is quite a dangerous development. I've done extensive research on it. There is a strong possibility that it causes mitral valve prolapse and pulmonary edema. It is also highly probable that it is as toxic to dopamine receptors as methamphetamine and methcathinone15:38
* Stskeeps blinks15:39
RST38htKMFDM: In other words, junkies have found another shit to kill themselves with15:39
tKMFDMRST38h, in other words prohibition has lead to a drug more dangerous than the illegal drugs being sold because the stuff people really want is illegal15:40
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RST38hStill, it probably does not make you claw your crotch out =)15:40
tKMFDMand most people using mephedrone are kids15:40
tKMFDMnot junkies15:40
tKMFDMusually who have little to no drug experience15:40
tKMFDMin the UK it is available at virtually every headshop15:40
* RST38h isn't so sure about prohibition leading to that, but anyway15:40
tKMFDMand no it doesn't make you claw your crotch out15:40
tKMFDMI've used it15:40
tKMFDMI would not do so again15:41
tKMFDMbut no my crotch wasn't clawed out15:41
tKMFDMit does make you smell like a bathroom urinal cake though15:41
tKMFDMit is excreted in the sweat15:41
Flandryso you're saying i could get high *and* be irresistible to women while i kill myself?15:42
tKMFDMseriously though no one would use this crap if the prohibited stuff was regulated15:42
tKMFDMand then kids wouldn't be able to score the currently illegal substances that are often easier to obtain for them than alcohol15:42
tKMFDMFlandry, you could look at it that way yes15:43
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RST38h"Live webcast from Nokia Capital Markets Day" went to "Offtopic". WTF?15:43
Flandrythe question is, does it let users kill as many other people as alcohol does15:44
RST38htKMFDM: I am sure somebody would, prohibition or not15:44
tKMFDMRST38h, yes somebody would15:44
tKMFDMsomebody however; would be a lot fewer than currently use it15:44
tKMFDMmost people using mephedrone are taking it as an mdma alternative15:44
SpeedEvil - fun15:44
tKMFDMbecause they either can't obtain mdma or do not want to risk prosecution15:44
RST38hThe thing I noticed is that drugs like company15:44
tKMFDMthe rest are taking it as an alternative to other stimulants15:44
Flandryi'm not really worried what people do to themselves as much as what they do to others15:45
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RST38hSmall groups of friends start using the same drugs, then switch to harder stuff, then group members slowly start fucking themselves up15:45
Flandryso frankly if it causes less DUI homiciides, it's better than alcohol15:45
SpeedEvil(fig 1 on page 10 - relative drug harms)15:45
RST38hUsually takes 3-5 years from the moment they start smoking grass =)15:45
tKMFDMsuch as cocaine or methamphetamine which while both addiction prone and dangerous substances are at least well studied. we know what the risk of these substances are both long term and short term. mephedrones risk is completely unknown. only estimatable at t his time15:45
tKMFDMRST38h, separate the drug markets like the netherlands does15:46
tKMFDMalmost no cannabis user in holland users hard drugs15:46
Myrttiohai, I can haz maemo discussion?15:46
Flandrywrong channel Myrtti15:46
tKMFDMMyrtti, ok i'll throw something out there. there needs to be an rdp client that works with the keyboard15:46
Myrttipolitics and drug discussion make my head hurt15:46
RST38hMyrtti: Yea, would you like fries with that? =)15:46
Robot101Myrtti: DUI *is* a Maemo discussion :)15:46
Robot101it didn't cse any homicides... yet15:46
tKMFDMwe need a cool acronym for driving while using the device15:47
RST38hIronically, Robot is correct =)15:47
SpeedEvil - on the current topic.15:47
Robot101its unclear what they were smoking though :)15:47
tKMFDMI've so far avoided walking into people (or cars or bikes) while walking around using the device15:47
Myrttioh noes, my Ubuntu IRC experience hasn't yet worn off from me15:47
SpeedEviltKMFDM: I am currently losing weight and shivering due to my n900.15:47
* Myrtti goes to scrub her hands with pumice and lye15:48
tKMFDMon last point i was in the middle of that i simply had to throw in is that almost no one in NL uses grass either despite it being for sale in every major city15:48
tKMFDMSpeedEvil, elucidate15:48
SpeedEvil(diet, partially to pay for it, and heating minimal)15:48
RST38hMyrtti: Got your N900?15:48
MyrttiRST38h: I've not ordered or paid for one15:48
MyrttiI'd be surprised if I'd get one :-D15:48
SpeedEviltKMFDM: I couldn't really afford it. But it was good motivation for diet. And I need to lose maybe 25Kg)15:48
RST38hMyrtti: Not interested in N900 as opposed to N8x0 or some other reason? =)15:49
MyrttiRST38h: waiting for the prices go down a bit more, mainly. And the latest press release with "Maemo6 device to ship on second half of 2010" has made the consideration process a bit harder15:50
|RAnyone has ordered from MobileCityOnline?15:51
FlandryN900 shipped in "the latter half of 2009"15:51
LynoureMyrtti: with that kind of thinking you might always wait for the next one :)15:51
Flandryhow long do you want to wait :D15:51
lopzhola ;}15:51
MyrttiLynoure: but maemo6 is the step 5 in the roadmap with 5 steps...15:52
suihkulokkiLynoure: and in process save a lot of money =)15:52
jpjokelaMyrtti: I'd rather see it like this: "First modern non-symbian Nokia phone shipping now-ish"15:52
RST38hMyrtti: Ah, that... :)15:52
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RST38hMyrtti: I would consider ordering from US as alternative to waiting for prices to fall15:52
LynoureMyrtti: Want to join maemo revolution at the end of the path? *trollish*15:52
Flandryif i could wait i would buy my phone and zaurus have both had it15:52
MyrttiI'm not sure yet if I want to pay 530€ for a "nice try, but no bonus"-phone that'll be more or less obsolete in a year15:52
RST38hMyrtti: (+) You get all four arrows (-) kbd layout switch bug suddenly becomes relevant15:53
zaheer_outdated even15:53
|RI don't think anything with people in suit can be called a revolution though :P15:53
LynoureEvery phone is "outdated" after a year :)15:53
MyrttiLynoure: I'm working and being paid for being a part of the revolution, and have been for 18 months already, so your argument doesn't roll15:53
zaheer_i am sure gsm, edge, 3g, hsdpa, wifi all will exist 2nd half of 201015:53
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zaheer_so obsolete is an exaggeration15:53
Lynoure|R: I would not call maemo people people in suits...15:53
rashed2020530 euros?!?!15:54
Lynoure|R: though some of them here might shock me with that =)15:54
|RLynoure: agreed, but there backing is :)15:54
RST38hMyrtti: $500 though?15:54
LynoureMyrtti: oh, you work for Nokia?15:54
|R(just woken up and usually speak french, sorry :P)15:54
LynoureMyrtti: or, maemo, in particular, that is?15:54
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MyrttiRST38h: I could get it for free in UK with a plan I'm likely to get anyway, but I want specifically a Nordic version of the device15:54
Flandryactually, do we know yet if the next device will support a stylus? If not i'm really not interested15:54
MyrttiLynoure: Nokia subcontractor15:55
RST38hMyrtti: no way I can understand that...15:55
Jaffaaf'noon all15:55
Flandrygood morning :)15:55
RST38hMyrtti: I mean, specifically NOT getting .RU version here because of the arrows...15:55
rashed2020Myrtti: What's so special about the Nordic version?15:55
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LynoureMyrtti: but for maemo? What company? What do you do? (Got curious, have not heard about you since I left #u-o15:55
zaheer_Jaffa, is it intended that while doing the contatcs updating in hermes, there is no indication that it is busy?15:55
Lynoure(other than FB statusi, but those do not count)15:56
Myrttirashed2020: I'm sceptic about being able to use scandic characters in other versions of the device15:56
tKMFDMMyrtti, i hear from others that you can15:56
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tKMFDMif you add other languages15:56
tKMFDMthey appear int he symbols dialog15:56
Myrtti"how convinient"15:56
tKMFDMgranted then it is cumbersome15:56
LynoureShould be possible to add them to the keyboard, with xkb-fu15:57
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LynoureHave not gotten around to it then15:57
tKMFDMi wonder when we will get firmware that can add more than two languages15:57
tKMFDMapparently the firmware nokians have already can15:57
infobotLynoure meant: Have not gotten around to it yet15:57
suihkulokkiit is possible to change the hwkb layout from the control panel15:57
zaheer_it is15:58
Lynouresuihkulokki: yes, but it does not say what key goes where...15:58
Myrttibesides, my brain is mapped quite tightly to use Finnish hw keyboard15:58
suihkulokkizaheer_: it was not a question, it was a statement =)15:58
RST38hMyrtti. tKMFDM: Be aware of bug #250115:58
povbotBug Hardware keyboard doesn't switch Input language when pressing Ctrl+Space15:58
zaheer_mine was not a rebuttal but a verification :)15:58
MyrttiI had to buy stickers for making a UK keyboard Finnish to be able to properly use it15:58
Lynouresuihkulokki: rumour I heard was that getting ä and ö would lose my cursor keys.15:58
MyrttiRST38h: hence why I'm sceptic15:58
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RST38hMyrtti: layouts are memorizable, do not need stickers really. But that switch bug is a bummer15:59
suihkulokkiLynoure: it is not a rumour, it is a fact15:59
Flandrylosing arrow keys though...15:59
suihkulokkithat is why the bug RST38h should be fixed asap16:00
Lynouresuihkulokki: so, instead I'm thinking of having ä instead of pound sign and ö instead of euro16:00
MyrttiLynoure: business card says "Nomovok Ltd", and I've got AUCtex as my main tool in emacs.16:01
Jaffazaheer_: apart from the progress dialogue?16:01
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Jaffazaheer_: (if you close the progress dialogue it won't reopen)16:01
suihkulokki(vote vote vote)16:01
zaheer_Jaffa, progress dialogue?16:01
zaheer_maybe i did close it and didn't notice16:02
RST38hsuihkulokki: You do understand that it exists since 2007 or so and NOBODY has fixed it so far?16:02
Jaffazaheer_: you tap "retrieve" and it goes from "Fetching friends' info" through to "Updating contacts"16:02
zaheer_i just saw my contacts app changing its number for all contacts while hermes was running16:02
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zaheer_and this time i left it running and so got all my birthday only contacts, previous time i had closed it at some point...16:03
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|RIs the proximity sensor the one below the camera or the one above?16:05
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Jaffaonce again, -users proving itself as a cesspool of crime and villainy16:08
Myrttirashed2020: sorry, the lowest price atm is actually 539€ with shipping16:08
rashed2020Myrtti: Is that in euros? Or do you mean another currency that you don't have the key for?16:09
rashed2020Cuz that is an INSANE price if it's in euros.16:09
Nitialit is16:09
Nitialit's finnish price16:09
Myrttirashed2020: yes, euros, and I use UTF8, what are you using?16:09
Corsacrashed2020: it's an euro sign :)16:09
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NitialN900 is still cheap compared to the e90 when it was new... somehing like 900+ euros16:10
NitialFinland, VAT and all the happiness :P16:11
frals_its like 560€ here in .se16:11
Myrttiwith a contract the cheapest deal is around 22e/mo, and the contract probably includes absolutely *nothing*16:11
Myrttiand you're tied to it for 24mo16:11
GAN900I can't believe what a throwaway device the N900 seems to be turning into.16:12
GAN900Nokia just never learns.16:12
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GAN900Multitouch idiocy. . . .16:13
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MyrttiGAN900: perhaps they'd learn by maemo6? perhaps the next device is the jesus model that they can use as a base for everything forthcoming and make maemo6+ downwards compatible for all maemo6 devices? perhaps? maybe? hopefully? *shrug*16:14
FlandryGAN900: you mean by not including multitouch?16:14
Myrttianyway, hope springs eternal16:15
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GAN900Flandry, I mean not having multitouch on the N900 is a bullshit reason for not releasing an update for the N900.16:16
Flandrydoes the autobuilder check for binary package dependencies or just build dependencies?16:16
FlandryOh, is that their official stance now?16:16
GAN900Myrtti, I have this sinking feeling that my relationship with Maemo will end with Harmattan.16:16
Flandry(no update)16:16
GAN900Flandry, Nokia never has an official stance.16:16
GAN900But that seems to be the direction the rumors point.16:17
Flandryah ok :/16:17
GAN900Harmattan mostly looks like something I don't want.16:17
GAN900For a ba16:17
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GAN900For a variety of practical and philosophical reasons.16:18
LynoureEnough stress in my life, not worrying about something that happens about techtoys a year from now :)16:18
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KhertanHello Everybody !16:18
Flandrywell GAN900's involvement in maemo goes a bit beyond just a toy16:18
CoreFusion-WOO!! My order status just changed to SHIPPED!16:19
GAN900Indeed, I've invested way too much tine16:19
w00tCoreFusion-: uk?16:20
GAN900time in this platform not to care.16:20
CoreFusion-w00t: Finland16:20
JaffaGAN900: Surely they're not hinting multitouch will be so integral as to preclude N900 usage?16:20
w00tCoreFusion-: k, never mind then :-)16:20
MyrttiGAN900: "to Everything There is a Season"16:20
* w00t clicks16:20
GAN900Jaffa, that's what I keep hearing.16:20
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w00tStskeeps: *glare*16:21
FlandryJaffa: fremantle for N800?16:21
GAN900rangar has Thanked a post or two to that effect.16:21
Stskeepsw00t: feels like a kick in the crotch, eh? :P16:21
truwonder when nokia sweden will ship the n900.16:21
truwhat's the status for 1.1 firmware?16:21
JaffaFlandry: H/w step change16:21
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w00ttru: they seem to be having a large amount of problems even shipping in countries it's already released in, so I'd expect that might impact it too16:22
JaffaGAN900: bah16:22
GAN900Jaffa, indeed.16:22
GAN900I can't possibly see that being justifiable.16:22
GAN900Multitouch is so freaking gimmicky.16:22
FlandryJaffa: so is step 5 one would assume by that logic16:23
Flandrythat almost sounded unladylike16:23
MyrttiI snapped a nail :-<16:24
GAN900Besides, they HAVE to realize that jetisoning their existing owners over and over isn't an effective way to build a platform.16:24
suihkulokkianyone bugzilla empowered in awake?16:24
Flandryyou'd be surprised how many companies don't get that16:24
GAN900suihkulokki, hmm?16:24
FlandryAT&T drove their cell business into the ground that way16:25
Flandryand then someone was dumb enough to think that renaming Cingular after that company was a good idea16:25
zaheer_Stskeeps, yah well glad people are getting them :)16:25
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LupuGAN900: You should try mailing them to suggest open-sourcing the platform so you can port Maemo6 for the N900. *grin*16:26
JaffaFlandry: What h/w is on the horizon for 2H10?16:26
zaheer_perosnally i think nokia should open source all the maemo 5 ui16:26
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zaheer_if they're scrapping them all for qt based ui in maemo 616:27
FlandryJaffa: besides a mulitouch screen, not much different, but  the point is they seem to make each step a new start16:27
GAN900Lupu, I suspect there'll be a bit of justifying by poinring to Mer.16:27
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|RThey hopefully add a digital compass too in the next N9x016:28
|R    'll16:28
Flandryi'm not justifying it, just pointing it out16:28
Flandryone would hope, yes16:28
Flandryand usb host16:28
zaheer_hdmi out would be sweet too16:28
Flandrythat's pretty much all that's missing16:28
|Ryeah, and more ram haha ;)16:28
Myrttiuhuhhuh, mommys little baby ♥ Fonera 2.0n16:28
Flandryoh well that :)16:28
Myrttiit haz a tux on it :-D16:29
CoreFusion-And now I got the tracking code for my shipment :)16:29
* GAN900 wonders what happened to MicroB being open sourced.16:29
zaheer_CoreFusion-, is it being shipped from finland or from NL?16:29
* |R scrapped his order from september to get a lower price yesterday... and thus is never getting a phone16:29
CoreFusion-zaheer_: from finland, from my operator16:29
|RDamn us in Canada16:29
GAN900Maemo, that land of broken promises.16:30
zaheer_CoreFusion-, aah ok :)16:30
w00tzaheer_: haha. i asked the same question ;)16:30
w00t(more or less)16:31
Flandryanyone know if the autobuilder will reject a build for binary package dependencies not being found?16:31
SpeedEvilhas anyone got pidgin working? I installed it from extras-testing - it connects to freenode, then becomes confused, not logging in properly.16:31
FlandryThat pretty much summarizes my pidgin experience throughout the years16:31
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Flandryit "becomes confused"16:31
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GAN900suihkulokki, timeframe expiring momentarily.16:32
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JaffaFlandry: build-deps: yes; depends: no (cos the autobuilder needs to build it to know them)16:32
Flandryok thanks16:32
|Rhehe pidgin on my debian unstable rights now after a while i come back, close a window, and it goes in a while(true): malloc() loop or something like that and then gets killed by the OOM manager..16:33
GAN900suihkulokki, ping timeout.16:34
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suihkulokkiGAN900: no longer need that.16:41
Stskeepswb qwerty12_N90016:41
qwerty12_N900Thank you, Stskeeps16:41
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sgbirchOMG - Got my N900 a few days ago, just coming up to speed.  It is INCREDIBLE16:49
Flandrydeval extras16:50
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plr_hmm camkeyd doesn't seem to work for me - the camera key still opens camera instead of dashboard16:51
plr_it would be very nice to use it for dashboard16:51
ShadowJKinstead of ctrl-backspace?16:51
krigFlandry: the guy with the problem did say that he hadn't touched the devel repo though16:51
Flandryyeah i know, but clueless kids wandering into the thread and spewing that doesn't help stuff16:52
plr_shadow yeah16:52
krigvery true16:52
plr_ShadowJK: it's annoying when the keyboard is closed and app is full screen16:52
roundyzis xterm actaully the real xterm? or is it slim like rxvt?16:54
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kalikianaroundyz, if you mean the Terminal, it is a fork of Terminal, ie. found in Xfce16:55
Jaffaroundyz: What do you mean by "real" and "slim"? It's based on libvte like gnome-terminal16:56
zaheer_"Listening to the obvious pride they are showing in how they staged the N900 introduction makes me wonder if the delay, confusing availability and messy sales processes, were all planned to create "talk," if not outright hype around the N900. It's also interesting to note what they do not talk about regarding this device, like how many unique orders they have actually got for the device, or expected sales volume, or whether it will be Mae16:56
zaheer_mo6 compatible." from t.m.o re:nokia capital markets day16:56
roundyzyerh terminal, i meant16:56
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Jaffazaheer_: Anyone who thinks that credits Nokia with more cunning than I think they've got. A *lot* more cunning.16:59
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glass_conspiracy theories are fun to some people16:59
zaheer_yah i think you're right :)16:59
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Flandryhi kalikiana17:01
Klowneroverdriven jazz makes me angry (on hold with nokia) :[17:01
kalikianahey Flandry17:02
Flandrykalikiana: i was trying to remember if i verified that the /dev/input/uinput group is properly set after reboot. Did you check that yesterday?17:02
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kalikianaFlandry, iirc I did chgrp manually17:03
FlandryInstead of a reboot, changing it back to group root and then trying udevadm control --reload_rules would accomplish the same17:03
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Flandryi hope17:04
Flandryattila is going to upload the kernel module package, so if that udevadmn command does the trick, everything should work after the next uqm update17:05
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kalikianaFlandry, so you resolved the missing kernel symbols?17:07
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kalikianaI read some of the discussion about it, but not all17:07
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Flandryturns out he already has a workspace set up that can create kernel module builds, so i think it will be ok. The symbol problems were with the net module mashiara was working on17:09
Flandrymashiara sucessfully built and installed the joydev module, and sent it to me, but didn't have a way to autobuild it yet17:10
Flandryif you really want to test it out, you can get the module from the bug report and install it17:11
povbotBug 6492: Accelemymote component requires joydev kernel module17:11
Flandrybut hopefully a deb will be on extras when attila uploads that17:11
kalikianait's probably eaisest to wait and test it then, if he uploads it anyway17:13
Klownerwaiting to talk to nokia human for nearly 30 mins, effing' jazz music17:13
Myrttiis it pan pipes?17:14
jebbajebwhy in contacts if you add a phone number does it also add a SMS link? The numbers don't accept SMS (landlines)...17:14
KlownerI wish it were17:14
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Klownerit's a single terrible distorted song on a loop17:15
Flandryyes, true. Could you please do a quck chgrp on the uinput node and then call the update rules script to make sure that side of things is all set?17:15
Flandrychgrp root /dev/input/uinput17:15
Flandryudevadm control --reload_rules17:15
Klownerthey don't need to say "sorry, our lines are busy, we will answer your call shortly" every 8 seconds17:16
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FlandryKlowner: that just makes it more annoying, doesn't it?17:16
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KlownerFlandry: totally17:16
Jaffajebbajeb: FWIW, landlines in the UK can get SMSes (although I've never used it)17:16
jebbajebnot here in .ar17:17
jebbajebat least not that i've seen yet17:17
Flandrythat's cool17:17
ccookeJaffa: ... under some circumstances, with some providers?17:17
Jaffajebbajeb: FWIW, landlines in the UK can get SMSes (although I've never used it)17:17
jebbajebi think we need a #maemo, #maemo-devel, #maemo-bitch-about-nokia, heh17:18
Stskeepsand #Maemo-bacon17:18
Jaffaccooke: All do, AFAIK. BT, for example, ring you and it's read out17:18
kalikianaFlandry, did that. according to acceleremote it is fine17:18
ccookeJaffa: and people with landlines from virgin?17:19
Jaffajebbajeb: point me at a bug # and I'll vote for it :)17:19
Jaffaccooke: same thing AIUI17:19
Flandrykalikiana: Great! thanks for checking that17:19
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ccookeI shall check17:19
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ccookeJaffa: ... nope.17:21
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PhonoE71Writing from wirelessIRC via symbian, and wondering what the best, most popular IRC client is on Maemo 5. What are you guys using?17:22
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plr_xchat, but I guess I'm not the only one who uses screen+irssi17:23
Stskeepsi use ssh+irssi mostlythough17:23
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Jaffaccooke: doh17:24
* Jaffa using ssh+irssi too17:24
ShadowJKxchat + lots of channels + 3G  == 57% battery remaining after 2 hours17:24
tigertssh + screen + irssi17:24
jebbajebPhonoE71: using xchat at the moment. Though i did install pidgin and the IRC plugin for "conversations" which i suppose i could try now17:24
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ShadowJKI switched to 2G and it was significantly better17:25
tigertits the awesome on the road17:25
jebbajebShadowJK: is xchat a hog?17:25
PhonoE71Cheers, thanks everybody. I'll definitely want an on phone client... Looking at xchat now, is it currently compatible?17:25
tigertno disconnects to worry about17:25
ShadowJKjebba900, no it's 3G17:25
vanksii second the shell with irssi in screen17:25
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ShadowJKStskeeps, IRC needs an extension for powersaving ;p17:25
StskeepsShadowJK: no longer my scene17:25
ccookessh, screen and irssi is a wonderful platform :-)17:25
tigertscreen is the thing that makes irssi so awesome17:25
ShadowJKI know17:25
tigertotherwise it is not17:25
PhonoE71Jebbajeb: IRC plugin sounds interesting17:25
jebbajebPhonoE71: ya, xchat is compatible. i'm using it now17:26
jebba900over here17:26
ShadowJKI saw mention on tmo or bugzilla that the irc plugin doesn't do channels...17:26
plr_tigert: completely agree17:26
jebbajebthough i havent been able to save preferences in xchat yet...17:26
tigertShadowJK: it doesnt because the n900 chat doesnt do group chats17:26
StskeepsShadowJK: that said, raising ping timeouts and maybe a PSM like protocol ..17:26
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ccookeIf you can't do it with ssh and screen, you probably haven't thought enough ;-)17:26
jebbajebit did save autostartup freenode #maemo, but the main menu preferences crashes when i save it17:26
tigertplus irssi doesnt waste screen for useless gui17:27
PhonoE71Thanks all, that should get me started17:27
ShadowJKbasically a "don't send my anything for 60seconds unless I ask"-command17:27
tigertits just the chat on fullscreen terminaö17:27
StskeepsShadowJK: except when display is on?17:27
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tigertShadowJK: maybe some irssi / ssh powersave mode17:27
ShadowJKWell, client would cancel that command when display comes on17:27
ShadowJKthe ssh powersave mode is ^A^D17:28
jebbajebalso for scrolling in xchat you have to grab the widget on the far right. You can't scroll by sliding up and down like in the browser and such.  It hasnt really been tweaked for maemo much.17:28
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tigertthat it could update in bursts every (timeout -1) seconds17:28
tigertShadowJK: yeah17:28
tigertthough i wonder if ssh does some keepalive stuff17:28
tigertthat could be tuned?17:29
derfIt has keepalive options, yes.17:29
ShadowJKjebbajeb, I think you have to get rid of the channel tree/tabs and userlist completely17:29
ShadowJKnot enough room for chat otherwise with the huge widgets :/17:29
tigertmaemo openssh defauts should be checked for maximum powersave17:29
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tigertxchat ui would be a good one to work on,17:29
derfI'm pretty sure the defaults are no keepalives at all.17:29
tKMFDMxchat also has other issues17:30
tigertin barcelona next weekend17:30
tKMFDMchanging settings crashes the client17:30
derfBut either the client or the server can request them.17:30
ShadowJKJust esc 1 to status window in irssi where nothing happens anyway, and there will be minimum irssi traffic?17:30
tigerta well designed fremantle-style irc would be nice17:30
ShadowJKtKMFDM, yeah, I just copied settings from n81017:30
ShadowJKI'm not so fond of "Conversations" either, the font is gigantic for my taste17:30
tigertShadowJK: statusbar + chanact...17:31
ShadowJKI guess it's fine for twitter generation where your attention span is about 80 chars17:31
tKMFDMi wonder if the settings files are identical to linux chat. if so i i'll just copy from my ox17:31
tKMFDMwith some changes17:31
tKMFDMShadowJK, you can change text size17:31
SpeedEviltigert: I actually think pidgin - the way I have it setup for desktop - would be about right. Conversation window, with tabs down the right-hand-side - with the tabs lettering at right angles17:32
tKMFDMusing the volume button i believe17:32
SpeedEvilpidgin - the package - is broken17:32
StskeepsShadowJK: technically you could implement this power saving protocol in a BNC17:32
tigertcould mockup something someday17:32
Stskeepsor irssi-proxy17:32
ShadowJKStskeeps, yes17:32
tigertnow to cook dinner17:32
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ShadowJKStskeeps, when I find the time I will17:32
ShadowJKdoesn't even need to be protocol-aware17:32
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ShadowJKif I put it infront of irssi-proxy or bnc17:32
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wazdhello maemo17:33
ShadowJKI read somewhere that the zooming in conversations is going to get disabled? maybe I remember wrong17:33
SpeedEvil - how do I get from here to 'report an issue against this package' ?17:34
povbotBug 5624: Zoom in/out in IM chat does not reflow contents17:34
mgedminpet peeve rapidly approaching #1: when you get the silly recurring "Unable to connect to one or more accounts", volume keys control volume17:34
mgedminand not the app17:34
jebbajebSpeedEvil: btw, i see at this very moment there is a new pidgin update, at least since last night17:34
SpeedEviljebbajeb: downloaded a couple of hours ago17:35
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Klownerwait 50 mins to talk to returns and now they forward me to troubleshooting... grr17:35
ShadowJKwhat is that area where the battery status and clock is display called? System notification area? systray? status tray?17:36
Stskeepsstatus area17:36
jebbajebpidgin 2.6.3-6nix0 is what i have at the moment17:36
ShadowJKANd what is that thing that pops up when you tap it called? The one with shortcuts to clock, profile, bluetooth, internet connection, volume, and so on?17:36
mgedminstatus menu17:36
* mgedmin thinks17:36
mgedminwhat's that thing you get when you press power?17:37
mgedminpower menu?17:37
suihkulokkisystem ui17:37
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ShadowJKNow, open browser, switch browser out of fullscreen, open status menu from status area. Browser is blurred out, press volume keys. Volume is not changed. (It is changed when browser isn't shown)17:37
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ShadowJKDoes that make sense? I'd really want it to change volume whenever status menu is out ;-)17:38
lcukaSIMULAtor, ping17:38
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jebbajebShadowJK: you can vote for that conversations font size bug too...17:38
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roundyzI just wrote a hello world app, transfered it to mydocs and now I can't execute it as it wont let me tr to change permissions on the file, i do sudo gainroot; then chmod 777; ./helloARM17:38
roundyzwont work, permissions wont change, any idea?17:39
Stskeepsroundyz: mydocs is probably noexec17:39
Stskeeps(not sure though)17:39
ShadowJKjebbajeb, I guess, just to keep the zoom feature there :)17:39
roundyzyerh just got that, thanks17:39
mgedminShadowJK, I can reproduce, and I too think that's a bug17:40
mgedminthe exact opposite of my bug17:40
Stskeepsoh dear17:40
Stskeeps(pink theme)17:40
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mgedminhello kitty!17:40
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: Thanks for making me vomit.17:40
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: no problem17:41
jebbajebhello shitty17:41
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ShadowJKmgedmin, what's your bug?17:41
Flandrydoes fat even support file attributes, i don't remember?17:41
jebbajebman, i just thought it was some sort of mockup, not a new theme yikes17:41
Myrttimy pink highlight has just been set off17:41
* Myrtti clicks17:41
qwerty12_N900Question is: Who's gonna be high enough to install it?17:42
MyrttiOH JESUS17:42
wazdheya maemo17:42
* w00t clicks17:42
Myrttimy eyes, they burn17:42
Flandrylol is that for real?17:42
wazdMyrtti: you've summoned me I suppose :D17:42
w00tI really like that colour17:42
Flandry"Hello, Maemo" theme17:42
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: new game at maemo meetups.. get a person drunk and install hello kitty theme on the person's n90017:43
mgedminShadowJK, <mgedmin> pet peeve rapidly approaching #1: when you get the silly recurring "Unable to connect to one or more accounts", volume keys control volume and not the app17:43
MyrttiI'd seriously want to see that in use17:43
wazdthat's not hello kitty :)17:43
wazdthat's hello ACID :D17:43
DangerMausouch my eyeballs17:43
w00tStskeeps: I'm going to use that theme17:43
w00tStskeeps: nobody will ever dare steal my phone17:43
Myrttiwho knows, perhaps it's even usable17:43
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: I wouldn't want to be held responsible for blinding someone17:43
jebbajeb# su - user17:43
jebbajeb$ passwd17:43
jebbajebThe password for user cannot be changed."17:43
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qwerty12_N900Anyone see the irony?17:45
Flandryhad to comment17:46
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Flandrywho let God back in anyway17:47
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orbarronmorning all17:47
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Stskeepsmorning orbarron17:47
jebbajebok. So i want to scp videos over to "/home/user/MyDocs/.documents/Audio".   I tried to change the password for "user" but, no go.  I set up a /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys file, but it still prompts for a password.   How to scp over stuff to "user"'s directory?   Just as root, then chown? Seems goofy.17:47
w00tzaheer_: god dammit, my email notification went off.. i rush to my inbox: "Dear receive 80% OFF on Pfizer"17:47
mgedminjebbajeb, use ssh keys, they're *awesome*17:47
zaheer_w00t, lol17:48
mgedminI see you created authorized keys17:48
mgedmincheck if the directory permissions are right, or ssh will ignore them17:48
jebbajeblook ok to me17:48
qwerty12_N900w00t: ...and that's all you will ever recieve! *hides*17:48
FlandryThe devil has been thanked over 30 times17:48
mgedminjebbajeb, also, IIRC, I had to sudo gainroot, vi /etc/passwd and change user:! to user:*17:48
w00tqwerty12_N900: :(17:49
mgedminbefore ssh accepted my logins17:49
qwerty12_N900I thanked him with a pint of your blood, Flandry17:49
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* Flandry had been wondering about that needle mark on his arm17:49
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jebbajebmgedmin: cool, thanks.  I had to edit /etc/passwd AND set a password for "user", now it works   :)17:50
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qwerty12_N900w00t: If it makes you happy, I have a picture of my N800, N810, and "my" N900 on a desk. Urge to kill rising?17:50
w00tqwerty12_N900: yes.17:50
wrapsterhow do i obtain the UID in python...17:51
wrapsteri know wrong forum.. but im not registerd...and was working on maemo only so asked...17:51
wrapsterkinda forgot17:51
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mgedminjebbajeb, I never set a password for user17:53
mgedminwrapster, os.getuid()?17:54
wrapstermgedmin: ah.. thanks..17:54
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ShadowJKsubmitted bug about  volume slider in status menu when browser is in the bg18:01
* Arkenoi still owns a 770. runs os2007 (2008HE is too unstable and 2006 is too ugly)18:01
DangerMausakiniemi, my 770 in rite next to the 900  though im running 2008HE needed it for something i thing bt18:03
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KlownerI can't take this jazz! Apparently I have to wait in line AGAIN because they transferred me to tech support :[18:04
DangerMausDont hang up18:05
KlownerBeen on for 1.5jrs18:05
Klownerer hrs18:05
SpeedEvilKlowner: You mean that support couldn't help you!!!18:06
SpeedEvilKlowner: you've got a broken mic?18:06
DangerMauslike like all he needs in=s an RMA18:06
Klownercorrect, because it's a hardware problem18:06
SpeedEvilYeah - well - it's not unreasonable to assume that people asking for a RMA may be idiots.18:06
DangerMausyour prob got dropped harder than the others18:06
DangerMausand if they only had a clue18:07
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DangerMausbut they only have a book they read from18:08
Klownershe told me to press the mic mute button18:08
DangerMausthe what?18:08
Klownerwhen making a call, you can mute18:09
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Klownerthat aint it though18:09
DangerMausi hoped that was what it was18:09
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tbfhmm. seems doesn't really work18:10
tbfi only see green rectangles18:10
DangerMausvs. a fictisious physical button18:10
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vkvrajuHello All18:15
ccookehuh, mail from mobilephonesdirect confirming they're shipping on Friday18:15
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ShadowJKbelieve it when you see it18:16
ShadowJKand touch it18:16
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ccookeI've no reason to distrust them18:16
* darktears is getting angry with the broken linker of maemo5 SDK18:16
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* darktears still don't know why the linker is not capable to pick the library correctly18:17
ccookeMPD have been perfectly open through the whole process. And hey, we know that n900s have shipped already.18:17
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DangerMausnow to setup mail ... hmmm18:18
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lcukhey bilboed-tp18:20
jebbajebwould tunneling x11vnc via ssh greatly increase the load on the n900?18:20
lcukccooke, you gettin another n900?18:21
jebbajebas compared to running without it?18:21
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wrapstermgedmin: and how do i get the current user's name?18:21
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ccookelcuk: my wife's18:22
lcukgive her yours18:23
darktearsis anyone know how the fuck i can check where the linker is looking for libraries18:23
lcukor is it a case of cold dead hands18:23
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ccookelcuk: if I gave her mine, what would *I* use? :-)18:24
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ShadowJKjebba900, on wlan?18:24
ccookedarktears: so you're after the dynamic linker, right?18:25
kalikianatolidarktears, it looks where you tell it to, usually /usr/lib18:25
ShadowJKjebbajeb, on wlan?18:25
darktearsccooke: yes18:25
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darktearskalikianatoli: no it doesn't i have a custom path for library i'm building sometimes it don't find it even though the lib is there18:26
darktearsccooke: it's broken18:26
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ccookedarktears: you've put a library in a location you've invented and the linker doesn't pick it up automatically? That's why it's "broken"?18:26
darktearsccooke: i'm working with cmake, sometimes it works sometimes not, depending what i'm buiding18:26
darktearsccooke: no using rpath-link18:26
darktearsi mean puting the absloute path doesn't work neither18:27
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kalikianatolidarktears, maybe you should first check if cmake is behaving correctly18:27
kalikianatolirather than blaming the linker18:27
Oli``Which app are people using to connect wiimotes to their n900s?18:28
darktearsit does18:28
ccookedarktears: The dynamic linker works on a set of configured library paths. Unless you're putting your library into one of those, you shouldn't expect it to work.18:28
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kalikianatoliOli``, wiicontrol. it tends to crash after a while, though18:28
kalikianatoliso you have to start it after playing for a bit18:28
Oli``kalikianatoli: okidoke18:28
kalikianatoliseems to dislike if I switch windows18:28
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jebbajebShadowJK: ya, on wlan. I was thinking it may increase CPU too much to encrypt it all18:29
Flandrykalikianatoli: does that show up as a joystick device? How does it work?18:29
darktearskalikianatoli: i had to add that to cmake to properly link with system libraries -DCMAKE_EXE_LINKER_FLAGS=-Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/lib and to build Qt the same QMake needs to be modified to define rpath-link. For some reason, /usr/lib is not in the library search path for resolving18:29
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prusnak is broken in Firefox and Chromium ... :-/18:30
kalikianatoliFlandry, It sends keys as if it was a keyboard18:31
prusnakError: unterminated string literal18:31
prusnakSource File:
kalikianatoliand in the game you configure it in keyboard controls18:31
prusnakLine: 168, Column: 4118:31
prusnakSource Code:18:31
prusnak  listItemText = document.createTextNode('\');18:31
jebbajebhere's a simple little script to connect conveniently to the N900 with VNC:
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darktearsccooke: and adding extra path to the link using r-path to actually link with a library that you haven't yet install is perfectly valid, that how you deal if in your project you have libB which depends on a libA, and both of them are in the project you are building18:32
Flandrykalikianatoli: oh, that's right. i checked it out before and had forgotten.18:32
Flandryit would much easier to do that for uqm but i wanted to have a full analog control eventually18:33
Klowner2 hours of jazz, why nokia? why?!18:33
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aspiditesi'm in scratchbox writing python code but can't seem to import any pyqt modules18:36
aspiditesfrom PyQt4 import * works, but not from PyQt4.QtGui import *18:37
apol_can anybody tell me why in my scratchbox, after installing qt4-dev-tools and libqt4-dev i can't find qmake?18:37
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aspiditesapol_: i don't have it either :-S18:37
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apol_:/ in the FAQ they say it should be right after installing the packages :S18:39
Flandrywhere do the screenshots on m.o/downloads come from?18:40
* Flandry wonders if he missed another custom maemo control file tag18:40
mikhasapol_, did  libqt4-dev pull in all the core deps? you could check what you have installed with dpkg -l *libqt4*18:41
fiferboyFlandry: They are uploaded by the owner of the package18:41
fiferboyIt is not automated18:41
Flandryoh ok. Thanks fiferboy18:41
mikhasanyway, for qt-on-meamo questions you probably get more help @ #qt-maemo18:41
aspiditeswait...doesn't debian make all qt packages modular? ie, id' have to download qtsql,etc seperately18:42
aspiditesmikhas: why didn't i think of that. #maemo certainly wasn't any help :P18:42
apol_mikhas: solved thanks18:42
mikhasaspidites, yes. and usually installing libqt4-dev should install the important modules *-core, -gui etc.18:42
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DangerMaushollywood is getting outta controll >>
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aspiditesmikhas: ah. thats what i get for residing on an arch linux box. thanks for the map mikhas. headed to qt-maemo18:44
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|RIs oMWeather that much of a battery drain like some people suggested on the forum or is it just because they have it on update every 10 minutes?18:46
FlandryOnly one more tester needed!
aspiditesuqm - urquan masters?18:47
jebbajebthat URL isn't even loading here....18:47
jebbajebah now it finally has18:48
Flandrythat part of m.o is slow18:48
aspiditesdownloading now via scratchbox. darn you all who have a device in hand :(...and congrats18:49
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aspiditessays i can't install because i don't have joydev. is that scratchbox exclusive?18:50
aspiditesalso, i thought apt did automatic dependency resolving?18:50
rEv9where do I find the Scummvm libs? I says its in the repos, but they arent there.. 'It requires some additional packages, all of which are available in the extras, extras-devel or extras-testing repositories, such as: libsdl, libmad, libvorbisidec, libflac, libasound.'18:50
Flandryaspidites: what you're getting is the newer version on -devel18:50
kalikianatoliFlandry, is the -data package in user/ on purpose, by the way?18:50
Flandryaspidites: and yes it should, but that package doesn't exist18:51
Flandrythe 3do data package is18:51
Flandryit's optional18:51
kalikianatoliI mean uqm-data18:51
Flandryiit's in user? oO18:51
Shapeshifter uhm.... in this utf election....18:52
kalikianatoliyes, it showed up here18:52
ShapeshifterI have two green rectangles which are empty18:52
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Shapeshiftercandidates, preferences. both empty.18:52
bmidgley2lardman were you trying to reach me?18:52
* Shapeshifter tries another browser18:52
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Flandrykalikianatoli: what do you mean by "here"?18:53
Flandrythe control file has Section: games18:53
Shapeshifterwell. empty rectangles in chromium and firefox.18:53
Shapeshifteris there supposed to be something there?18:53
kalikianatoliFlandry, oops, sorry. I checked again, it is really the 3do package.18:54
Flandryyou had me worried :D18:54
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* Shapeshifter tries yet another browser18:54
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* kalikianatoli deforms Shapeshifter into a browser.18:55
Shapeshifterkalikianatoli: I'm trying midori next :P18:55
kalikianatoliShapeshifter, good boy :-D18:55
* Flandry models Shapeshifter into a fennec, then a mobile fox, then gets confused18:56
Shapeshifteralso empty.18:56
ShapeshifterI think this is broken18:56
Flandryaspidites: anyway, if i had an N900 i'd be the first tester on the list.18:57
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Flandryaspidites: to install on sdk youll need to take the version in -testing18:57
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jebbajebShapeshifter: midori "works", but screen refresh is *really* slow18:58
Shapeshifterjebbajeb: mh?18:59
Shapeshifterno, I'm talking about the poll18:59
* GeneralAntilles sighs at Maemo 6.18:59
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Corsacjebbajeb: send flowers to kalikianatoli18:59
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Corsacmhmh, besides €, what does this poll has to do with unicode?19:00
jebbajebthe Extra character election?   I didn't get a vote token.19:00
aspiditesok Flandry19:00
Corsacjebbajeb: for midori :)19:01
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jebbajebah heh19:01
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aspiditesi was surprised to see midori in repos already. looks decent :)19:01
jebbajebalso, i had checked to clear "personal data" on exit in midori, but it left a ~/.cache/midori directory full19:01
CorsacI kind-of miss some context for that poll19:01
ShapeshifterCorsac: yeah. me as well.19:02
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jebbajebwhere does one get a vote token?19:02
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CorsacShapeshifter: and I have the green boxes too19:02
Corsacon firefox19:02
ShapeshifterCorsac: yeah it's broken19:02
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hrwthat voting is broken - after login I got empty page19:03
Flandrywooooo promoted to extras :D19:03
kalikianatolijebbajeb, eek, I'm guessing ~/.cache/web to be exact?19:03
rEv9tnx Flandry for pointing me to the url. I found everything and its working now, thanks again ;)19:03
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Corsachey JPohlmann119:03
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FlandryrEv9: glad i could help out19:04
GeneralAntillesThe goddamn apartments flooding.19:04
* SpeedEvil passes GeneralAntilles some sandbags.19:04
jebbajebkalikianatoli: i blew it out, i can retest.  But ya, i think it was ~/.cache/midori/web19:05
jebbajebi'll retest now19:05
* Flandry still waiting for m.o to promote the package...19:05
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: rain?19:06
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: washing machine?19:06
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ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: tears?19:06
* Flandry remembers that he should have made the new package only depend on joydev on armel19:08
Klownerthat was painful, I guess they're sending me another N900.. hopefully it's overnight shipping again19:08
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FlandryKlowner: what happened?19:08
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KlownerFlandry: dead mic19:08
Flandryoh, the infamous19:09
DangerMausKlowner, they sending you first or cross ship or send yours first?19:09
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Klownerfrom what I understand they're sending a new one immediately and I have 6 days to ship this one back19:09
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DangerMausdose nokia have a history with dead mic's or something?19:09
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hrwKlowner: who pays for shipping of both?19:10
Flandryno but N900 has had a ... few19:10
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DangerMausread like a 20 page thread of dead mics19:10
Klownerhrw: Nokia19:10
Flandrywell that's good19:11
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DangerMausyeah sounded like a rma in the box of the new one19:11
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KlownerI feel like I can't play with this one because it's retarded19:12
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Flandry~seen jeremiah19:12
infobotjeremiah is currently on #maemo (1d 12h 58m 19s), last said: 'heh'.19:12
jebbajebkalikianatoli: confirmed.    `rm  -rf ~/.cache/midori ; rm -rf ~/.config/midori`       Start midori.  Go to some website.  Click "Tools".  Click "Clear Private Data".    Check "Clear private data when quitting Midori"  (but DON'T click "Clear private data" button).   Tap blurry part at top to close private data window.   Exit Midori.   `ls -R ~/.cache/midori/web`  and see the .pngs or whatever.19:12
Shapeshifterwhich character would you be voting for anyway?19:13
Shapeshifter|, & and $ are equally important for bash scripting.19:13
jebbajebkalikianatoli: i can bugzilla it, if that's useful for you.19:13
Shapeshifterand ( ) are very important19:13
Shapeshifterfor anything19:13
DangerMausso what was the total amount of time on the phone with nokia Klowner19:13
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kalikianatolijebbajeb, thanks for checking, I'll check it this evening. no bug needed, I'll take care of it19:14
* Flandry expects that smoke is rising from the m.o package servers19:15
jebbajebkalikianatoli: np. thanks!  :)19:15
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Flandryjeremiah: with no resolution for in sight, is it possible that you could promote to either testing or extras?  The app just went into extras.19:19
povbotBug 6301: Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/repository.php on line 54219:19
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jebbajebwhat is the logic behind doing  /home/user/MyDocs/.video  instead of /home/user/MyDocs/video  (e.g. why a hidden file)?    Same for .documents etc.19:21
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Flandrydiscussion on t.m.o: localization. It's renamed in file manager19:23
jebbajebah ok, makes sense19:23
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* Flandry is still waiting for m.o to promote the package to extras19:24
greenflyjebbajeb: I just created my own Music and Video directories19:25
greenflyjebbajeb: and trackerd still found them19:26
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* SpeedEvil wishes for a DAB transmitter.19:26
jebbajebweird.  I'm trying to log in to in Canola, but when I type a key in the Username: field it opens Contacts app!19:27
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crashanddiejebbajeb: file a bug!19:27
fiferboyjebbajeb: I think canola has a problem with input currently19:27
lcukknown issue with toolkits19:27
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jebbajebcrashanddie: ok19:27
Flandryto anyone who has submitted a patch in a bug report for maemo core apps: do they mark the bug report closed when they apply the patch?19:27
fiferboyThe key stroke goes to the desktop, which searches your contacts19:27
lcukVDVsx should know more19:27
crashanddiejebbajeb: actually, search for it first, I remember it being talked about during the summit19:28
DangerMausnow that was weird.... i had turned phone off and put it on charge to charge up a bit faster  then i went to turn it on and it wouldnt  just kept holding for a good long time ,,, then i popped the charger off and tried again nothing... so then i pulled the battery replaced it anf it started as normal19:28
lcukhiya fiferboy \o19:28
lcukand seb19:28
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crashanddiehey lcuk19:28
crashanddiejebbajeb: you can vote for it on bmo19:28
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fiferboyhi lcuk.  How's things?19:28
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lcukgood so far19:28
crashanddielcuk: how's the job?19:28
DangerMausits got about 3/4 charge19:28
lcukjust gettin ready, ive got an 8 hour trip tomorrow19:28
crashanddielcuk: where you going to?19:28
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lcukshould be shorted but im touring europe19:29
lcukvia amsterdam19:29
crashanddiebarcelone via amsterdam?19:29
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lcukyeah pita19:29
crashanddielcuk: you realise there's very regular and cheap flights from stansted and heathrow to girona?19:29
lcukcoming back i get to visit france19:30
hrwlcuk: shiphol?19:30
crashanddielcuk: can you stick around until the 18th? :P19:30
lcukstansted and heathrow are nearly 300 miles from me19:30
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crashanddielcuk: if you let details stopping ya...19:30
lcukhrw yeah think so19:30
crashanddiehrw: which other main airport is there in holland?19:30
hrwlcuk: how much time for a change?19:30
lcuknot enough time to go visit city19:31
jeremiahFlandry: I don't see why not.19:31
lcuklemme check19:31
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crashanddiehrw: you got zestienhoven en aachen, but they're hardly of any size compared to schiphol19:31
jebbajebah, gah, it's not even free software (canola).   instead of bugzilla, i remove....19:32
jeremiahFlandry: So I'm not sure I understand. The app just went into extras, but you want me to promote it to extras?19:32
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jeremiahCanola is not GPL?19:32
zaheer_lcuk, nothing from manchester to bcn?19:32
fireswireshi, this is a very luser question, so apologies in advance, google didn't help. But on my N900 when I press enter in vim insert mode I get a capital M on the line above. How may I fix this?19:32
jebbajebjeremiah: not according to this:
derfThe only way I found to get to Aachen was to fly to Schipol first.19:33
Flandryjeremiah: The app is in the process of being promoted to extras (10 minutes and counting on the reload...). This is the optional data package for it. It's just content19:33
mgedminfireswires, you're using screen, aren't you?19:33
mgedminor were using screen in that xterm session19:33
lcukzaheer_, i asked the same question myself, im not just gonna wildly go for a tour for no reason \o/19:33
zaheer_lcuk, wow that is a shock and a half19:33
* lcuk hates flying at best of times, actually, i hate takeoff and landing19:33
jeremiahjebbajeb: Wow. That kinda sucks.19:34
crashanddielcuk: that's what you get for living in the north :P19:34
VDVsxlcuk, what do you need ? :P19:34
mgedminfireswires, workarounds: (a) don't use screen, (b) use ctrl-j or ctrl-m instead of the enter key (c) map <esc>OM <cr> | map! <esc>OM <cr>19:34
jeremiahFlandry: Is it a dependency?19:34
crashanddielcuk: go to some widely easy place to get, such as brisbane or something :P19:34
lcukVDVsx, onfirmation of the bug with search and contacts when you use keyboard19:34
mgedminfireswires, I use vim on my n900 and my enter key works fine -- why doesn't yours?19:34
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jeremiahIf so it should get promoted with the app19:34
Flandryjeremiah: no, it's optional19:34
jeremiahor okay rather19:34
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mgedminfireswires, did you run mc, or any other ncurses-based app in that xterm?19:35
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mgedmindoes it do the same if you open a new xterm window?19:35
VDVsxlcuk, that a bug on hildon-desktop19:35
zaheer_lcuk, there are none with BA...but easyjet fly from liverpool john lennon19:35
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fireswiresbrand new terminal same issue19:35
crashanddieWhen a 121 page PDF starts with "A sophisticated, feature-rich solution with high security and privacy protection,", you just know you're going to have a good time19:35
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VDVsxlcuk, here is the Qt fix as example:
crashanddieIcanCU: no, you can't19:36
IcanCUbetter get dressed19:36
crashanddieI'm in the office, next to the CFO, undressed wouldn't work -- I'm not a hot 20 yo busty blonde19:37
jeremiahYes you are.19:37
Mouseybut are you a girl?19:37
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crashanddieMousey: no, thank god for that19:37
jeremiahIf you weren't a 20 busty blonde I wouldn't talk to you.19:38
Stskeeps20 busts?19:38
crashanddieStskeeps: wtf are you doing with ops?19:38
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crashanddieStskeeps: get down19:38
Mouseythat's a lot of girls to put up with19:38
jeremiahHe's Stskeeps19:38
jeremiahHe can do whatever he wants19:38
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, his ass is deputized.19:38
Stskeepswhy do i have op19:38
crashanddieStskeeps: /deop #maemo Stskeeps19:38
jeremiahFor operating19:38
GeneralAntillesIn case pupnik goes off his meds again. ;)19:39
* Flandry watches #maemo go to hell in a handbasket again19:39
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: we has you which should be enough19:39
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, not when I'm sleeping or at class.19:39
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* jeremiah smacks them both pre-emptively.19:39
crashanddiegod, still going with that school masquerade?19:39
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crashanddiestop playing around, we need you in the industry19:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hopefully not permanent :P19:40
VDVsxjebbajeb, canola uses GPL v3, the info in that page is outdated19:40
jeremiahYeah! School? Pffff19:40
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, yeah, I'm tired of it too.19:40
jebbajebVDVsx: how does one get license info with `dpkg`   /usr/share/docs has been blown out.19:40
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I had a dream about dropping out and joining the Marines last week.19:40
jebbajebVDVsx: i'll file bug about incorrect license info.19:40
jeremiahVDVsx: Nice catch19:40
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mgedminfireswires, ?19:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I said the industry, not the mindless fucks19:40
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: I don't recommend it.19:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: plus you're skinny, you'd be a rop19:40
jeremiahUnless you want to go to Afghanistan19:40
jeremiahNo 3G19:41
mgedminhow do the live there?19:41
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jeremiahI wouldn't call it living19:41
jebbajebVDVsx: should things like that be filed in or in garage's bug system?19:41
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, maybe the airforce, then. Those C-130s have WiFi, right?19:41
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jeremiahjebbajeb: Well, you could just send a mail to the project, might be faster. :)19:41
GeneralAntillesjebbajeb, Garage is never the answer.19:42
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: They love people who know how to use computers - maybe they'd have you fly a drone?19:42
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: or you could try an inflection on the xkcd comic: "RYAN, GET YOUR ASS ON THAT MACHINE GUN, THEY'RE BUTCHERING US HERE" "Hang on sir, someone is WRONG on TMO"19:42
VDVsxjebbajeb, BMO, there a canola produte there19:42
VDVsxjebbajeb, in case you don't know there's also a canola irc channel (#canola)19:42
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: unless the question is "where can you hide a body for a few hours while mixing cement"19:42
jebbajebVDVsx: thx again, going #canola19:43
GeneralAntillesThe location stuff for Telepathy should really tell you the state for US locations.19:44
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lcukVDVsx, yeah i know that i fixed it before qt did, it was for someone mentioning about canola experiencing it19:45
VDVsxlcuk, yes EFL suffer for this issue19:45
Flandryhmm how long should the page load take for a package promotion request anyway19:46
fireswiresmgedmin: that map works well. thank you19:46
* lardman|home now has 2 GB in his N14019:48
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crashanddielast night on a conf call, some manager yells at a chick in Oz: "You can slap him on the head now", she replies: "Which one?", and I jump in: "He's got two heads?"... There was a big silence, I just understood how ambiguous our combined statements were19:48
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crashanddieanyway, fag break, see ya in a bit19:48
* lardman|home is shocked at how long cln takes to build19:49
jebbajebok, #canola is fixing license if they can figure out how.   In bugs.m.o, the version numbers of canola are old though (just list betas). Wonder who to poke to update that.   #canola folks directed me here for that heh19:49
GeneralAntilleslardman|home, the N140 is the Maemo 6 device, isn't it?19:49
GeneralAntillesEverybody find him and kill him!19:49
lardman|homethat's the one ;)19:49
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GeneralAntillesHow's the Samsung?19:50
lardman|homehmm, I thought you'd just signed my death warrant and left19:50
lardman|homeyeah, seems ok19:50
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GeneralAntillesI put 2GB in my Mini 9.19:50
lardman|homedoes the job I bought it for anyway19:50
GeneralAntillesIt seems silly with an 8GB SSD.19:50
lardman|homeah, I have 250Gb19:50
lardman|homespinny hdd though19:50
lardman|homebut that's fine, as I deal with large data files19:51
* lardman|home wonders what gecebekcisi's avatar says19:52
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lardman|homeah, an email address19:53
lardman|homedatamatrix barcodes don't scan so well19:53
lardman|home~lart libdmtx for not working very well with out of focus images19:53
* infobot hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at libdmtx for not working very well with out of focus images19:53
lardman|homeso is it possible to alter the app that is launched when the camera shutter-thing is opened?19:54
jeremiahFlandry: Yeah, that page takes a long time. :/19:54
jeremiahWe are going to work on it.19:54
konttorilardman|home: unfortunately - no19:54
konttorifile a bug!19:55
Flandrybut it should work, even if it doesn't finish loading after an hour?19:55
konttoriyou can detect it and switch yourself to the front atm though19:55
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konttorithat's what qik does19:55
lardman|homekonttori: as long as no-one has beat me to it! :)19:55
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jeremiahFlandry: Well, it should19:55
GeneralAntillesSo, who's going to Barcelona that can tell me how I should get to the hotel from the airport?19:55
jeremiahI'll check to see if it is showing up19:55
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: Are you going to Barca?19:56
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jeremiahYou lucky brat19:56
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GeneralAntillesjeremiah, not feeling so lucky about it at the moment.19:56
GeneralAntillesIt's feeling rather inconvenient, in fact.19:56
GeneralAntillesYeah. ;)19:57
GeneralAntillesApartment flooding, still need to drive down to St. Pete for my flight tomorrow afternoon.19:57
GeneralAntillesExams start next week, too.19:57
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jeremiahExams? Pffft19:57
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ShapeshifterKlowner: wow I feel sorry for you20:01
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Shapeshifterthat totally sucks20:02
zaheer_GeneralAntilles, did you read the travel part in the wiki?20:03
GeneralAntilleszaheer_, ah! Missed the part.20:03
ShapeshifterI just noticed my 6310i was made in germany >.>20:03
jebbajebcrashanddie: done:
povbotBug 6511: Canola plugin doesn't allow you to enter username/password20:03
zaheer_GeneralAntilles, i put in info re: taxi, train and bus options20:03
Shapeshifterno wonder it's so good.20:03
GeneralAntilleszaheer_, yeesh, I'm gonna guess I'd better take a taxi.20:04
GeneralAntillesAre the taxis cash-only over there or do they take Visa?20:04
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Flandrydo taxis here take visa?20:04
GeneralAntillesDepends on the city.20:04
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ShapeshifterMy dad once fell from his bike while doing 50km/h and landed on this 6310i and all it suffered were a couple of scratches on the back of it.20:05
zaheer_GeneralAntilles, depends, mostly cash20:05
GeneralAntillesNeed to get some money in the airport, then.20:05
zaheer_GeneralAntilles, tehre are some but you won't be able to ask for one that takes visa20:05
jebbajebextra char selection is working for me in firefox 3.5.5 (fedora 12).   But TAB isn't listed for vote!20:05
Shapeshifterjebbajeb: they fixed it.20:06
ShapeshifterI miss ^20:06
Flandryjeremiah: still no promotion. Should i click the link again?20:06
zaheer_GeneralAntilles, 20 euros should cover the cab ride (it's a minimum 20 euros from bcn airport to anywhere, but cornella is not far from usually costs me 20 euros to the world trade centrew hich is in central barcelona quite a bit further than cornella is)20:06
jeremiahFlandry: Try that - see what happens.20:07
jeremiahFlandry: If it doesn't work20:07
jeremiahI'll have to go spelunking in the code / database20:07
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FlandryServer Error20:08
FlandryPackage has already been promoted.20:08
FlandryError 50020:08
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FlandryIt now shows up as being on both extras and extras-testing. Is that normal?20:09
FlandryUnder "latest version"20:10
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RST38hmoo all20:11
KlownerShapeshifter: it's quite a bummer, thank you for your sympathy20:11
kalikianatoliFlandry, makes sense to me. so users can just use devel to get everything20:11
FlandryIt's not showing in downloads page yet however.20:12
* GeneralAntilles wonders how much of the agenda is in Spanish.20:12
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zaheer_GeneralAntilles, i'm guessing most people will be locals20:13
jebbajebthere another nokia/maemo conf? BCN?20:13
Flandryand that doesn't mean "to be done" :P20:13
zaheer_jebbajeb, mameo long weekend barcelona20:13
zaheer_jebbajeb, it's in cornella de llobregat not barcelona city20:14
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FlandryIs there no automation of the m.o/downloads page, then? All the apps there are added by hand?20:17
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GeneralAntillesFlandry, they're added automatically from Extras.20:18
rashed2020No automation of the downloads page? I'm having second thought about buying an N900..20:18
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GeneralAntillesrashed2020, what in the world does automation of the Downloads page have to do with you?20:18
Flandryit's a separate process than promotion i see20:19
lcukVDVsx, you land 10 mins after me and tim are we meeting in airport20:19
Flandrythanks for info20:19
rashed2020GeneralAntilles: Sarcasm, friend.20:19
GeneralAntillesrashed2020, ah, well then.20:19
VDVsxlcuk, humm, Tim also sent me a email20:19
VDVsxand I also will wait for yerga20:20
lcukgood idea20:20
rashed2020Plus, all the channels I'm usually in are dead.20:20
lcuktime for coffee and a smoke20:20
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VDVsxlcuk, :)20:20
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lcuksame going back as well, might as well hop in taxis, martin grimme asked for taxi share20:22
lcukmakes sense to fill one up20:22
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Venomrushwhere can i find list of the default N900 repository? Not the Extras, the ones enabled by default,20:23
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jeremiahVenomrush: I am not sure what you want - the ones already installed on your device?20:24
jeremiahIf so, you can look in the Application Manager20:24
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zaheer_lcuk, VDVsx, yerga: there are 2 terminals that are not very close in bcn...remember that when deciding where to meet, some may be in T1 some in T220:24
konttorilizardo: have you been able to push the new python towards extras (proper)20:25
lcukzaheer_, yikes!20:25
Venomrushah i meant20:25
Venomrushis there a wiki page20:25
Venomrushlisting all the repos20:25
Venomrushdefaults + extras20:25
jeremiahVenomrush: Not really.20:25
jeremiahVenomrush: What are you looking for?20:25
jeremiahA specific app?20:25
jeremiahOr a specific repo?20:25
VDVsxzaheer_, terminal 2 is for domestic flights ?20:25
lizardokonttori: looks like someone did that yesterday :)20:26
zaheer_lcuk, best to check your airlines, i can tell you which for which20:26
zaheer_VDVsx, no both are international terminals20:26
konttorioouu! really? great!20:26
lizardokonttori: see
suihkulokkidomestic as in "inter EU" flights methinks20:26
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zaheer_suihkulokki, same, both have international and inter european flights20:26
konttoriso, what's the best way to push end users to upgrade to it?20:26
RST38h"In the last year alone, Sprint turned over users' GPS data to authorities 8 million times."20:27
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konttoriasking gpodder, fmradio to start depending on that with >= dependency?20:27
RST38hkonttori: exactly. and every other python app20:27
RST38hkonttori: Oh, I know20:27
lizardokonttori: well, that is being discussed on the mailing list ... it seems HAM does not suport upgrading non user/* packages  :(20:27
lcuki am terminal 120:27
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VDVsxlcuk, me too20:27
lcukthen thats easy lol20:27
RST38hkonttori: New Vagalume is coming. Contact its author quickly and ask him to depend on python 2.520:27
RST38hkonttori: That will guarantee everyone switches20:28
konttorilizardo: so, setting python-runtime meta-package as a user/other would make is upgradeable20:28
RST38hmoo VDVsx20:28
konttoriand would also probably help in visibility to the users as well (so not such a bad thing in the end)20:28
evohi, I added some web shortcuts on the desktop, I'd like to edit the titles, I can't find the files on home directory, any hint? thanks20:29
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VDVsxRST38h, hey :)20:29
RST38hHilarious, simply hilarious:
suihkulokkihmm.. HAM should still be fixed, else we'll end up eventually having all packages in user/*20:29
lizardokonttori: not really... the python-runtime package is a metapackage intended for developers, not end users20:29
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VDVsxlizardo, with the right permission you can upload directly to extras, at least the 'new users' will have the optified version20:30
Venomrushhmm i'm trying to get it from sources.list but don't have enough permission even with gainroot20:30
lizardokonttori: see for the gory details20:30
Venomrushhow do i open /etc/apt/sources.list from terminal?20:31
Venomrushalready gainroot20:31
lizardoVDVsx: the packages are already in extras-testing20:31
agiVenomrush: vi /etc/apt/sources.list20:31
Venomrushbut still got an error saying no permission20:31
lizardoVDVsx: IMHO that does not sound like the right solution :/20:31
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suihkulokkiVenomrush: there is no /etc/apt/sources.list, there are some files un