IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-11-30

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lcuk	can a person who has his open source package (code or otherwise) send out a takedown notice for someone hosting it elsewhere	00:03
jaem	lcuk, depends on the license, but usually no	00:04
jaem	not normally, anyway	00:04
lcuk	didnt think so	00:04
jaem	why?	00:04
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lcuk	idle curiosity	00:04
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lcuk	i suppose if there were other complications it might make it valid	00:04
jaem	lcuk, some non-code licenses, like CC, have provisions for you to request that attribution be removed if your work is used in a way that you feel reflects poorly on you	00:04
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jaem	but that's the most I've seen	00:05
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jaem	timeless_mbp, everything seems shiny	00:05
lcuk	really? thats an odd line	00:05
jaem	install went fine, and the strings aren't borked	00:05
* lcuk goes reading how they ascertain that one		00:05
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jaem	lcuk, no, I meant that you have the right to request removal of attribution, even thought you can't request removal of the work itself	00:06
lcuk	ahhh thats different then cool	00:06
jaem	e.g. if I license something CC-By, and some 'shops it into porn, and I don't like that, then I can get my name removed	00:06
lcuk	but if you remove attributation what license is the work under?	00:06
jaem	the same - it's an exception	00:07
jaem	that's in there because normally attribution is required for all CC licenses	00:07
* lcuk nods		00:07
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LuciusMare	lcuk: do you want him to put the software down or just not attribute it?	00:07
lcuk	nothing to do with me	00:08
LuciusMare	...	00:08
lcuk	i just saw something that made me o_O	00:08
frals	bacon?	00:08
lcuk	and wondered how it would work	00:08
lcuk	lol frals	00:08
lcuk	nahh	00:08
frals	;)	00:08
lcuk	mirror services honouring takedown notices of open source packages :)	00:08
jaem	timeless_mbp, getting warnings on the install: "rmdir: '/usr/share/locale/en_US.0': Not a directory", and such	00:09
jaem	but otherwise it seems to work	00:09
jaem	however, the dialog with two choices and Ok/Cancel buttons is rather confusing	00:09
LuciusMare	Anyway,as i have quickly read the gnu/gpl license - and understood the main pillars,it is impossible to make someone stop distributing the program - can you imagine what would happen if linus would go nuts and made linux commercial?	00:09
* jaem imagines Linux going insane		00:10
jaem	:)	00:10
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lcuk	thats not the same problem at all	00:10
lcuk	linus ould be fully in his rights to do that	00:10
LuciusMare	jaem: i said Linus	00:10
* lbt looks incredulously at LuciusMare....		00:10
LuciusMare	lcuk: he wont	00:10
lcuk	if however he tried to retract the older open versions	00:10
lcuk	thats where the problem comes	00:10
jaem	LuciusMare, typo	00:10
jaem	I do it all the time >_<	00:11
LuciusMare	um,yes	00:11
LuciusMare	lcuk: yep,he can actually make more -commercial- versions,and nobody can stop him	00:11
LuciusMare	I constructed the sentence bad - if he would make linux commercial,thus removing all versions but his - paid.	00:11
LuciusMare	That is impossible under the gnu license	00:12
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lcuk	the license itself wont stop him from trying, the users will however be up in arms	00:12
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lcuk	and we would prolly see a fist fight with linux and rms	00:12
LuciusMare	lcuk: yahoo,geek wrestling	00:12
LuciusMare	lcuk: wait,no	00:13
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LuciusMare	lcuk: the license would have to stop him:	00:13
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lcuk	nahhh everybody breaks licenses everyday. its people noticing thats the problem	00:14
LuciusMare	hey	00:14
LuciusMare	The GNU General Public License is a Free Software license. Like any Free Software license, it grants to you the four following freedoms:	00:14
LuciusMare	blah blah	00:14
LuciusMare	#	00:14
LuciusMare	# The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor.	00:14
LuciusMare	So,he couldnt stop the users from distributing the free versions of linux	00:15
AakashPatel	Everyoens my neighbor	00:15
LuciusMare	AakashPatel: that's the point	00:15
arachnist	A true love will always come back:	00:15
arachnist	64 bytes from insomniac.pl (91.206.27.146): icmp_seq=3603 ttl=54 time=42911 ms	00:15
arachnist	64 bytes from insomniac.pl (91.206.27.146): icmp_seq=3604 ttl=54 time=41975 ms	00:15
arachnist	64 bytes from insomniac.pl (91.206.27.146): icmp_seq=3605 ttl=54 time=40975 ms	00:15
arachnist	my ping packets must love me	00:15
AakashPatel	look up the context of neighbor lol	00:15
LuciusMare	arachnist: what is that?Post pidgeons?	00:15
lcuk	LuciusMare, if a piece of paper magically stopped people from breaking licenses then there would be no crime	00:15
AakashPatel	lololol	00:15
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arachnist	LuciusMare: shell load issues	00:16
lcuk	sounds like your server went to sleep	00:16
LuciusMare	lcuk: o'course,i don't count the possibility that Linus would buy weapons of mass destruction and destroying every single copy of the kernel	00:16
slonopotamus_	hmm... that could work.	00:17
* lcuk respects the gpl :)		00:17
LuciusMare	however,the users would be "in law" when they would keep distribuing the code	00:17
LuciusMare	egh	00:17
LuciusMare	distribuuing?	00:17
LuciusMare	DISTRIBUTING!	00:17
LuciusMare	That is the word	00:17
* LuciusMare hides in shame		00:17
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luke-jr	LuciusMare: commercial != non-free	00:21
luke-jr	Linux is quite commercial	00:21
LuciusMare	wait,whaat?	00:21
LuciusMare	in which way is linux commercial?	00:22
AakashPatel	...its used in commercial applications	00:22
AakashPatel	BAM! Commercial!	00:22
LuciusMare	er	00:23
luke-jr	LuciusMare: you can buy it	00:23
LuciusMare	But the linux itself is not commercial	00:23
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LuciusMare	Linux is not a whore	00:23
luke-jr	LuciusMare: that's accidental	00:23
luke-jr	it could be commercial	00:23
LuciusMare	The fact that people use the free software in commercial applications does not make it commercial	00:24
luke-jr	Linus could begin charging $5/yr for a subscription to his git branch	00:24
luke-jr	'free' has nothing to do with 'commercial'	00:24
luke-jr	they are entirely unrelated topics	00:24
javispedro	this point is something most people don't understand though.	00:25
luke-jr	'free' has to do with rights, and 'commercial' has to do with finances	00:25
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LuciusMare	luke-jr: yes,so i dont know why are you mixing it up	00:25
ali1234	he could do that, but only one person in the entire world would have to pay	00:25
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ali1234	so it would be completely pointless	00:25
luke-jr	ali1234: you're assuming that one person feels like setting up a parallel distribution	00:25
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LuciusMare	Linux is free - people are free to do what they want w/ it.Including using in commercial apps	00:25
luke-jr	and that nobody would pay for immediate access	00:25
ali1234	luke-jr: no, not really, all they have to do is mirror it	00:25
javispedro	not really (see redhat vs centos)	00:26
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ali1234	which is trivial with git btw	00:26
luke-jr	javispedro: and many people still buy RedHat	00:26
javispedro	luke-jr: exactly	00:26
ali1234	luke-jr: for the support, not for access to the code	00:26
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ali1234	anywhooooo....	00:26
luke-jr	ali1234: true	00:26
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ali1234	javispedro: any idea on this: http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53886#p367180	00:27
javispedro	both _OES and _EXT mean "extension"	00:28
ali1234	luke-jr: and, just look at the sveasoft debacle for an example what happens when you try to charge for access to your svn	00:28
javispedro	(basically)	00:28
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luke-jr	Linus could charge $1 per 12 pulls... then any mirror would be unlikely to be latest codebase ;P	00:28
ali1234	javispedro: yeah, i gather that... why does 2.0 have it but 1.1 doesn't?	00:28
luke-jr	ali1234: Sveasoft violated the GPL. totally different scenario.	00:28
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javispedro	ali1234: so you'll have to check if the pvr sgx supports it. in which case you can feel free to pull the headers, else, die.	00:29
javispedro	ali1234: 1.1 had many extensions which are now mandatory on 2.0	00:29
javispedro	FBOs come to mind	00:29
ali1234	luke-jr: they didn;t violate the GPL. if you want the code, all you have to do is pay them, and promise not to mirror their code	00:29
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luke-jr	ali1234: that promise is infringing	00:29
ali1234	anyway, the latter part is a gpl violation i guess :)	00:29
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luke-jr	actually, I wonder how it would go in a court	00:30
luke-jr	two contracts, one granting the right, and the other promising not to use that right	00:30
ali1234	actually, they don't mind if you mirror the code, but if you do, you;'re banned from their club	00:30
LuciusMare	luke-jr: i guess,if they accepted the rights,and then denied it against the license under they got the code...	00:30
luke-jr	ali1234: pretty sure at one point, they actively prevented mirroring	00:31
ali1234	anyway, i don't want to talk about this, i want to fix ogre	00:31
luke-jr	:p	00:31
javispedro	ali1234: have n900? run glGetString(GL_EXTENSIONS) and look for GL_OES_packed_depth_stencil	00:31
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javispedro	in 1.1 surface	00:31
LuciusMare	Yes,lets get from ugly papers to beautiful software	00:31
LuciusMare	:)	00:31
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MNX1024	Anyone available at the moment?	00:32
javispedro	iphone supports it so my guess is that really just the headers are missing it	00:32
jaem	MNX1024, for what?	00:33
LuciusMare	MNX1024: not really	00:33
MNX1024	Need help with the N900 installing apps.	00:33
jaem	MNX1024, what's your problem?	00:33
jaem	I just have a minute, but I'll try	00:33
MNX1024	I don't know how to use dpkg -i, lol, and red pill isn't helping either.	00:33
LuciusMare	MNX1024: dpkg -i package	00:34
LuciusMare	That was the red pill of man	00:34
LuciusMare	of man-ual pages to be more precise and to avoid puns	00:34
ali1234	javispedro: android supports it too, and it's on the khronos headers if you google it	00:34
jaem	MNX1024, what are you trying to do? Install a local package?	00:34
MNX1024	a deb file	00:34
javispedro	ali1234: being on the krhonos headers means nothing	00:34
mikhas	be careful with that	00:34
jaem	MNX1024, what ali1234 said	00:34
MNX1024	Yea, I know the risk	00:35
javispedro	ali1234: other than it's a ratified extension	00:35
LuciusMare	MNX1024: get into a terminal,then under root do "dpkg -i package"	00:35
jaem	but you have to use thef filename, not the package name	00:35
LuciusMare	yes,actually	00:35
ali1234	jaem: what i said?	00:35
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jaem	ali1234, I was concurring	00:35
LuciusMare	if you are not sure,list all the files by "ls"	00:35
javispedro	MNX1024: and don't use red pill for anything, please.	00:35
MNX1024	It would be nice if you can slow down and elaborate more. I've actually spent 2 hours trying to use dpkg -i and still couldn't get it to work	00:35
jaem	MNX1024, okay, sure	00:35
jaem	do you have root access?	00:35
LuciusMare	MNX1024: okay,so what problems do you run into?	00:36
MNX1024	The only thing I was able to even get red pill to install was app installer..	00:36
LuciusMare	Roughly,what does it output?	00:36
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MNX1024	after that, it refuse to work for me.	00:36
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javispedro	the question of course is, why would you want to install a .deb file?	00:36
jaem	MNX1024, what does it do when you try?	00:36
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MNX1024	give me a moment	00:37
LuciusMare	MNX1024: does it say anything?If so,what does it say?	00:38
javispedro	ali1234: if it's missing from the gl2ext.h file on armel sdk repo, feel free to file a bug (and this one HAS chances of being fixed, since it's an autobuilder showstopper)	00:38
MNX1024	Unable to update 'gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg'. Incompatible application package	00:38
ali1234	javispedro: it isn't missing from that one	00:38
LuciusMare	oh	00:38
javispedro	ali1234: ah yep, glext.h, sorry.	00:38
javispedro	(same applies, just a bad typo :) )	00:39
ali1234	javispedro: everything i do, is on armel repo, and tested on device	00:39
MNX1024	That's what I get for trying to use red pill	00:39
jaem	MNX1024, that sounds like an architecture error, maybe	00:39
ali1234	i'm trying to get the GL_EXTENSIONS atm	00:39
MNX1024	Same message with several different deb files.	00:39
jaem	the package /does/ end in "armel.deb", right?	00:39
MNX1024	yea	00:40
jaem	odd	00:40
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jaem	that's the whole message?	00:40
MNX1024	yes	00:40
jaem	hmm	00:40
MNX1024	This is the message I got from red pill	00:40
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MNX1024	It's within that yellow stip	00:40
javispedro	MNX1024: what are you trying to install?	00:40
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MNX1024	gstreamer	00:41
javispedro	gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg	00:41
MNX1024	yea, that	00:41
javispedro	which is on extras...	00:41
javispedro	so you're wasting your time.	00:41
MNX1024	It is?	00:41
javispedro	yes	00:41
javispedro	gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg 0.10.9-2maemo1Fremantle Extras free armel	00:41
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MNX1024	Either I'm missing something or it's not there	00:41
jaem	MNX1024, the App Manager won't show things like that	00:41
jaem	use apt-get install packagename from a root shell	00:41
jaem	the App Manager only shows "apps", not libraries and command line utilities, for the most part	00:42
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javispedro	easier	00:42
jaem	but there's lots in the repos	00:42
javispedro	MNX1024: install zoutube	00:42
javispedro	from the application manager	00:42
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MNX1024	I got my deb file from here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg/0.10.9-2maemo1/	00:43
LuciusMare	odd	00:43
javispedro	forget about .deb files	00:43
javispedro	and install zoutube.	00:43
* jaem is off for a haircut - good luck		00:43
MNX1024	How exactly does that help me?	00:43
LuciusMare	javispedro: maybe it will work after installing from repos,but i would rather troubleshoot the problem	00:43
javispedro	it will install -flv and -ffmpeg	00:43
javispedro	MNX1024^^	00:43
MNX1024	Oh, ok than.	00:43
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javispedro	LuciusMare: installing .debs is NOT the proper way	00:44
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LuciusMare	javispedro: what does it do when you apt-get install it?	00:44
javispedro	LuciusMare: there's a reason it was removed and deeply hidden in the interface	00:44
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LuciusMare	it downloads and then installs the .deb file	00:44
javispedro	LuciusMare: from a repo, which is _signed_ (that's the keyword here)	00:44
MNX1024	I just realize something, when I try to use red pill, I noticed that the size is 0kb, that's a bit odd.	00:44
javispedro	and our ONLY hope this does not convert into a worm riden platform where everyone has a virus.	00:44
LuciusMare	javispedro: actually,the .deb he downloaded was from a repo	00:45
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javispedro	LuciusMare: i don't mind, end users don't have to install .debs . period.	00:45
LuciusMare	javispedro: why it's not the proper way?	00:45
javispedro	LuciusMare: do you get thousands of PMs a day from people who install OS2008 versions on N900?	00:46
javispedro	well, thousands... more like dozens ;)	00:46
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luke-jr	lol	00:46
LuciusMare	javispedro: oh	00:46
MNX1024	By me installing zoutube, I would get all the codec that is in ffmpeg, and this would allow me to play videos with those codec on mediaplayer?	00:47
javispedro	and the day will come when they realize that a .deb is basically like downloading a binary and "sudo exec()ing" it .	00:47
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javispedro	thus basically I can create a 1 KiB .deb file that bricks their tablet IRREVERSIBLY	00:47
LuciusMare	javispedro: .deb contains a little more then a binary and stuff	00:47
javispedro	so you have been warned	00:47
Macer	those crazy .debs	00:47
javispedro	LuciusMare: a binary run as ROOT...	00:48
javispedro	s/binary/script but that's about the same	00:48
LuciusMare	javispedro: once you - or someone in this # - said that there is no problem that reflash wouldnt solve	00:48
javispedro	LuciusMare: well he was wrong.	00:48
LuciusMare	so i guess its not IRREVERSIBLY bricked	00:48
LuciusMare	what does it do exaclty,then?	00:48
javispedro	and I am sure today's it been explained again how to overwrite NOLO.	00:48
LuciusMare	If it has been overwrited,you can write it in again	00:49
javispedro	how exactly? with a hot solder station?	00:49
javispedro	*hot air	00:49
microlith	jtag!	00:49
LuciusMare	javispedro: i am sure there must be a "better" way - but anyway,even if,it is not bricked	00:49
javispedro	it is, until you bring me some news about cold flashing	00:50
yuizy	LuciusMare:except huge phone bills	00:50
javispedro	(currently non existant)	00:50
LuciusMare	hm	00:50
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LuciusMare	And booting the phone off some other system,and writing it in again?	00:51
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javispedro	the phone won't boot.	00:51
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ali1234	javispedro: i can't seem to create a GLES 1.1 context with EGL	00:51
Macer	LOL	00:52
Stskeeps	if you hose nolo, i doubt even nokia care would help you	00:52
Macer	someone put a piece of code in the john henry with an ascii logo!	00:52
Macer	awesome!	00:52
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javispedro	ali1234: that's interesting. what are the diferences with 2.0 code?	00:52
javispedro	just the GL_ES_1 bit?	00:52
MNX1024	I just want to know something, can the N900 play files that have a higher resolution than its own screen?	00:52
ali1234	yeah	00:52
javispedro	ouch	00:52
javispedro	are you linking with GLES_CM ?	00:52
moo-_-	MNX1024: yes	00:53
ali1234	yes. eglCreateContext failed (12293).	00:53
LuciusMare	javispedro: that is a limitation of hardware.I think that installing only trusted debs should do the trick	00:53
moo-_-	MNX1024: 1080p HD has been reportted to work in some cases	00:53
moo-_-	with hw accelerated codecs	00:53
javispedro	LuciusMare: so you finally agree that users should not have the ability to install debs :)	00:53
* lcuk cant wait until code distribution is the norm :)		00:53
MNX1024	Ok than, the N900 can play any file out of the box, as long as it's within its supported codec range, am I correct?	00:53
LuciusMare	javispedro: um...okay,you got me there	00:54
ali1234	im probably doing it wrong	00:54
Macer	javispedro: why shouldn't they?	00:54
LuciusMare	users should be able to do it - BFUs shouldnt	00:54
LuciusMare	BFUs shouldnt even get root access	00:54
microlith	BFU?	00:54
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javispedro	Macer: chances for user error are (currently) way too large.	00:54
LuciusMare	Bloody fuckin user,i would say	00:54
Macer	javispedro: more like developer assholeness :)	00:55
LuciusMare	But in my - original language it is less onfensive - like "Average User john"	00:55
lcuk	javispedro, but what has changed now than people doing exactly the same in previous years	00:55
Macer	can't really blame a user over the fact tere are evil or bad developers out there	00:55
javispedro	Macer: people getting the first .deb they see from the author's homepage without even checking what the target OS is ... ;P	00:55
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javispedro	... which is clearly written in big letters in a <h2> ...	00:55
ali1234	yeah, see, debs have an arch field that prevents that level of stupidity	00:55
Macer	javispedro: then maybe the author should put the warning in huge bold letters? :)	00:55
Macer	oh	00:55
LuciusMare	i take users as even the hackers that make a roflecopter out of from it	00:55
Macer	hahaha	00:55
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Macer	well. then that is the fault of an idiot user	00:56
javispedro	ali1234: no, i mean diablo vs fremantle	00:56
ali1234	oh	00:56
javispedro	again, thinking all of us n810 users don't exist	00:56
javispedro	the n900 is not the center of the world dammit!	00:56
ali1234	well	00:56
LuciusMare	Darn,okay,it is about 0:00 so i am going to sleep	00:56
Macer	javispedro: lies!	00:56
javispedro	;)	00:56
Macer	hahaha	00:56
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ali1234	if you don't want people to install debs, why do you put them on your webpage :)	00:56
Macer	speaking of n810.. i should charge mine	00:56
Macer	i seriosly need to get an n900	00:57
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javispedro	ali1234: touché. the issue is that I've removed them now but it's too late, people are mirroring them.	00:57
Klowner	anyone have any ideas where a person would find some slight hand-holding for developing OpenGL ES apps for maemo (or anything for that matter)?	00:57
MNX1024	Anyway, think someone can confirm my previous question?	00:57
ali1234	fair enough	00:57
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ali1234	javispedro: even if you never put out a deb, someone would make one	00:57
javispedro	MNX1024: if it's able to play a media with larger res than builtin screen it's a matter of luck and depends of codecs	00:57
lcuk	Klowner, theres plenty of escort agencies aorund that do the hand holding, not sure how practical they would be as developers	00:58
lcuk	but you might get lucky	00:58
ali1234	i mean even if you somehow baleted every deb version on the internets	00:58
Klowner	lcuk: hrmm, that's a good idea regardless	00:58
Klowner	lcuk: that'd probably distract me from the desire to tinker with GL stuff	00:58
MNX1024	My previous question is actually this : Ok than, the N900 can play any file out of the box, as long as it's within its supported codec range, am I correct?	00:58
javispedro	ali1234: and that's the reason the option for installing .debs is gone in fremantle (it was on diablo)	00:58
ali1234	what about .install files?	00:59
kynky	codec range ?	00:59
ali1234	do they require the file is in extras?	00:59
* javispedro hides		00:59
MNX1024	kynky: what ever codec the N900 supports.	00:59
lcuk	ali1234, a .install fiel can specify its own repository	00:59
Macer	john henry is a molester!	00:59
Macer	hahaha	00:59
javispedro	so yes, in a way, it's way around all this.	00:59
ali1234	does the .install file have a way to check it's the right OS version?	00:59
lcuk	the .install doesnt but the app manager does	00:59
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javispedro	yeah, if the repo author knew what he was doing	00:59
ali1234	javispedro: which i assume you do...	01:00
javispedro	I actually never had a repo	01:00
kynky	well mplayer supports aload of codecs , gstreamer, well it depends on the gstreamer plugins installed , and then it will depend on processing power of n900 and if it an use dsp to do any offload	01:00
javispedro	well, had one but removed it nearly half a year ago	01:00
Klowner	I'll go bug #opengl	01:00
ali1234	javispedro: lol, even i have a (private) repo :)	01:00
kynky	there is always dpkg i thought	01:00
MNX1024	Can someone tell me how come I can't play a avi file that uses h264 codec?	01:01
microlith	because avi files should never contain h264 streams	01:02
kynky	MNX1024, what bitrate, what profile and what res ?	01:02
kynky	avi is just a container	01:02
MNX1024	128kb	01:02
MNX1024	resolution is 848 x 480	01:02
MNX1024	audio codec is mpga	01:03
kynky	can mplayer play it ?	01:03
MNX1024	Well, don't know how to access it x terminal, but when using it through kmplayer, I get sounds for the first 2 seconds	01:03
MNX1024	and then it goes full screen, then starts to flicker.	01:04
kynky	i guess having access to logs would be handy, but i guess it might just be easier to transcode	01:05
moo-_-	MNX1024: probably falls "unsuppoted codec + container"	01:05
moo-_-	.avi is something non-standard	01:05
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MNX1024	I thought the N900 supports avi and h264	01:05
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moo-_-	h264 should be in mp4 container	01:05
moo-_-	that's standard	01:06
kynky	supporting avi is a very vague term	01:06
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zaheerm	MNX1024, it does support h264 in avi	01:06
ccooke	Evening, all	01:06
javispedro	evening ccooke :)	01:06
zaheerm	MNX1024, however it only supports h264 basic profile	01:06
zaheerm	MNX1024, h264 is a massive spec, and the n900 only supports a part of it	01:06
ali1234	javispedro: what was that GLES example code you linked me to the other day? was it 1.1?	01:06
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javispedro	ali1234: no, it was 2.0	01:07
ali1234	hmm	01:07
* ccooke has had a busy few days :-)		01:07
ali1234	i already have written a 2.0 example :)	01:07
MNX1024	Can someone teach me how to use mplayer through x terminal?	01:07
javispedro	maybe they borked 1.1 support in recent firmwares..	01:07
ali1234	nah, i had ogre working with the old SVN version	01:08
ali1234	but ogre is too huge to add a glGetString on a random line of code, and expect it to work	01:08
moo-_-	MNX1024: try mplayer yourfilename	01:08
ali1234	plus the latest doesn;t work :/	01:08
MNX1024	moo: just that?	01:08
MNX1024	no need to use cd and such on?	01:08
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moo-_-	MNX1024: ah naturally	01:09
moo-_-	but that falls outside "teach how to use mplayer" that's "teach how to use linux" ;)	01:10
moo-_-	but i can help	01:10
moo-_-	where is your video file?	01:10
MNX1024	That would be real nice.	01:10
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pillar	is apt-get install libqt4-maemo5-dev working for people? I am getting an error for missing two depencies and not knowing where to find them (libgles2-sgx-img-dev and opengles-sgz-img-common-dev)	01:12
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MNX1024	moo: nevermind, I forgot to put something before the slash, lol. Anyway, it's located here /home/user/documents/file.avi	01:13
MNX1024	And here I thought something was wrong with my connection to the channel. XD	01:13
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MNX1024	Well, yea, not sure how to use CD. I couldn't figure out, even after I read several post on it.	01:15
moo-_-	MNX1024: ok	01:15
moo-_-	to get your current folder use command "pwd" (process working directory)	01:16
moo-_-	then cd .. to go up	01:16
moo-_-	or cd foldername to go down	01:16
moo-_-	.. = parent folder	01:16
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MNX1024	Some example would be nice, lol.	01:17
MNX1024	I'm assuming it will be pwd /home/user/documents ?	01:17
AakashPatel	i thought pwd meant print working dir	01:17
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AakashPatel	MNX1024: cd /home/user/documents	01:18
AakashPatel	if you want to get to it	01:18
MNX1024	AakashPatel: Ok, I get this message when I did you told me: can't cd to.....	01:21
AakashPatel	uh	01:21
AakashPatel	MNX1024: type /home/user/documents/	01:22
AakashPatel	in the terminal	01:22
AakashPatel	whats it sa	01:22
AakashPatel	y	01:22
MNX1024	not found	01:22
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AakashPatel	hm type cd /home/user/d and then press tab	01:23
AakashPatel	oh does maemo's term have tab complete?	01:23
luke-jr	that's not a term thing	01:23
AakashPatel	bash/ash shiz?	01:23
MNX1024	Does the case of the words matter?	01:23
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AakashPatel	i shouldnt	01:23
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AakashPatel	Maybe try with a capital Documents	01:24
ali1234	yes, case matters	01:24
AakashPatel	oh yeah then type with a capital D	01:24
MNX1024	should home be Home?	01:24
ali1234	no	01:25
AakashPatel	hope	01:25
AakashPatel	wtf	01:25
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AakashPatel	nope*	01:25
AakashPatel	haha	01:25
KMFDM	.documents	01:26
pH5	I suspect what you really want might be /home/user/MyDocs/.documents - what you see in the UI is the /home/user/MyDocs folder only.	01:26
AakashPatel	oh heh	01:26
MNX1024	Ok, I've tried this cd /home/user/Documents and cd /home/user/Documents/ , it still says can't cd to	01:26
AakashPatel	MNX1024: what pH5 said	01:26
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MNX1024	yay, I got it, finally	01:27
MNX1024	lol	01:27
MNX1024	No wonder I couldn't get dpkg to work	01:28
MNX1024	because I was missing mydocs	01:28
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moo-_-	MNX1024: got it?	01:28
moo-_-	good	01:28
moo-_-	sleepytime ->	01:29
MNX1024	Anyway, let's get back to my current issue. If I want to use mplayer to open something, now I would just type "mplayer filename.avi" ?	01:29
MNX1024	good night	01:29
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AakashPatel	MNX1024: yeah	01:29
ali1234	ok, i got the latest ogre to run after adding in the missing #define. i guess i'll have to try to use it to for the glGetString	01:30
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lcuk	hey ccooke	01:38
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ccooke	hiya	01:38
MNX1024	Sorry to be bothering you guys again, I'm trying to access my video clip folder. I can't seem to get it to work	01:38
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ali1234	javispedro: ok, got it. i see these in the output: GL_OES_depth24 GL_OES_stencil8	01:40
* ccooke discovers that mythtv actually works with the current upgrade. Well, apart from the channel data, so far...		01:40
ccooke	argh, EWIN. Sorry.	01:40
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* ccooke is distracted :-/		01:40
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* lcuk is too		01:41
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MNX1024	Nevermind, I got it.	01:42
MNX1024	Just quick question, how do I cd files from my memory card?	01:43
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lcuk	MNX1024, cd them?	01:44
MNX1024	Actually, how do I get to the root of my memory card	01:44
MNX1024	?	01:44
MNX1024	I have some files there and I need to use mplayer to open them	01:45
MNX1024	not sure what the directory would look like.	01:45
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ccooke	MNX1024: the memory card will be /media/mmc1 IIRC	01:48
* lcuk was just looking but got sidetracked by the existence of a DCIM folder on it		01:48
MNX1024	Thanks	01:49
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* lcuk changes chan		01:51
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pillar	is anyone here been able to integrate esbox under windows with qt development? I'm having a problem to get it recognize my share	01:52
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pillar	the only thing I am able to find about the error is someone else pasting the same error, but no answers.. http://pastebin.com/m30d5234e	01:56
* lcuk curses having to search megatonnes of code for a single function i know i wrote at one point		01:56
lardman	night all	01:56
lcuk	gnite lardman	01:56
* lardman knows that feeling, good luck!		01:56
lcuk	heh	01:56
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lcuk	pillar, thats a rly cool pastebin	01:57
Macer	wow	01:58
pillar	lcuk I was excited to see there was someone else with the same problem, but then no answer :/	01:58
Macer	the sarah conner chronicles. that's how they end it?	01:58
Macer	wtf? :)	01:58
mikhas	well, I guess no one ported samba/smbclient to fremantle yet?	01:58
Macer	that was a bigger let down tha jericho	01:58
lcuk	pillar, note my sarcastic tone.	01:58
Macer	and bsg	01:58
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lcuk	check the pastebin link you pasted	01:59
mikhas	perhaps just getting an armel deb from the debian repos works, who knows ...	01:59
pillar	lcuk ok :)	01:59
AakashPatel	I've made samba work for ARM before	01:59
andre__	samba is NOT supported in Fremantle. that's it.	01:59
AakashPatel	why not try fremantle :0	01:59
AakashPatel	lol	01:59
mikhas	andre__, this is about sbox	01:59
mikhas	not for the device	01:59
andre__	oh?	01:59
mikhas	hi btw	01:59
andre__	okay	01:59
andre__	heja	01:59
AakashPatel	compiling samba in sbox is easy peasy	01:59
pillar	not trying to support fremantle samba, just trying to get esbox work with linux virtual machine and it needs a windows share in order to work	01:59
AakashPatel	erm the lib is lol	02:00
lcuk	"Unknown post id, it may have expired or been deleted"	02:00
AakashPatel	O.o	02:00
mikhas	"esbox under windows" => needs samba shares to be mounted from inside sbox I guess	02:00
pillar	mikhas you got it	02:00
mikhas	AakashPatel, then you could create one of the few useful t.m.o threads =)	02:00
pillar	lcuk pastebin link didn't work for you?	02:01
ali1234	works for me :)	02:01
AakashPatel	Haha I'll make on when i get my n900 from nokia next week	02:01
AakashPatel	this week i guess lol	02:01
mikhas	why wait?	02:01
mikhas	earn karma today!	02:01
AakashPatel	testing ftw	02:01
mikhas	it looks as if it would only take you 5 minutes	02:01
mikhas	and make an esbox user happy =)	02:01
AakashPatel	lol	02:02
* Arkenoi wishes i'd had xterm with smaller softkeys either aligned to the right edge, not to the bottom or with <>[]=\| f1-f12 there as well.		02:02
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asidjazz	w/ roethlisberger out 2nite the spread/line of the steelers is ridic	02:02
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pillar	so this error is about smb not compiled for scratchbox? /home/maemo/.mica/mount_samba_share.sh: 62: smbmount: not found	02:03
mikhas	pillar, yes. I think you only need smbclient, not even the server	02:04
mikhas	whatever is providing smbmount	02:04
pillar	ok good to know	02:04
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timeless_mbp	hrm, who poked me?	02:07
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dfaure	N810 with diablo and Extras enabled: can't install gpe-calendar. It's looking for gpe-icons svn20080114 but only svn20080114 is available. Packaging mistake?	02:12
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timeless_mbp	anyone here w/ an n900 and a few mins to play around w/ something?	02:16
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pupnik	me	02:16
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MrGoose	where did all the tmobile deals go for the n900	02:17
MrGoose	In UK	02:17
pupnik	someone else help timeless_mbp	02:17
MrGoose	anyone?	02:18
MrGoose	why arent there any t-mobile deals for the n900 anymore?	02:18
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ccooke	MrGoose: I think I heard mention of a quota being used up	02:19
timeless_mbp	pupnik: it's fairly simple (it does require root)	02:19
MrGoose	really?	02:19
MrGoose	that sucks	02:19
dfaure	ok found my answer at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=399836	02:19
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ccooke	MrGoose: Well, note the uncertainty in my comment :-)	02:20
MrGoose	http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-launch-delayed-115875-21850329/	02:20
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evo	hi, is anyone using Email app with a Gmail IMAP account?	02:22
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timeless_mbp	MrGoose: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-review/ is more useful	02:23
timeless_mbp	or http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-launch-delayed/	02:23
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mikhas	love that comment: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-review/comment-page-1/#comment-48921 thanks timeless for giving me a good laugh, appreciated =)	02:33
timeless_mbp	mikhas: i haven't read the article yet	02:33
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philosohper	hos easy is it to port desktop application to maemo ?	02:34
ali1234	what the hell? you need multitouch so you can use it one handed? are they on crack?	02:34
mikhas	well, the follow-ups of that guy are a clear +5 funny: http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-review/comment-page-1/#comment-48921	02:35
mikhas	yeah, it's great stuff	02:35
mikhas	err, http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/11/25/nokia-n900-review/comment-page-1/#comment-48923	02:35
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ali1234	philosohper: depends on the app and the dependencies	02:36
philosohper	hos close is maemo from debian	02:37
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philosohper	did they took out many core dependecies ?	02:37
ali1234	probably not as close as you would like	02:37
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philosohper	ok	02:37
philosohper	would be cool to take a media player from desktop userland and put it on maemo6	02:38
ali1234	what, like mplayer?	02:38
philosohper	more amarok	02:38
mikhas	philosohper, and what about UI?	02:38
mikhas	yeah, have fun with that ...	02:38
ali1234	amarok devs will probably do it for you	02:39
philosohper	ali1234: i thought java wasnt supported	02:39
ali1234	at least one of them has a n900	02:39
ali1234	wat?	02:39
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ali1234	amarok is a QT app?	02:39
philosohper	hooo nice	02:39
ali1234	well, KDE	02:39
AakashPatel	philosohper: Did you hear what i said about the rebate?	02:39
tarelerulz	So there is only 2 devices that run Maemo ? is there more on the way	02:39
philosohper	AakashPatel: no	02:39
philosohper	what about it	02:39
AakashPatel	Its till good in teh Nokia Store	02:39
AakashPatel	its still*	02:40
ali1234	tarelerulz: no and yes	02:40
philosohper	i still dont understand why maemo mix gnome and QT ?	02:40
mikhas	philosohper, because it is possible	02:40
philosohper	wouldnt be easier to use a KDE derivative ?	02:40
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mikhas	look at the qt blogs	02:40
mikhas	=> someone already did it	02:40
tarelerulz	ali1234: What do you mean no and yes ?	02:40
ali1234	philosohper: sure, if you want everything in maemo to be a huge sea of buttons and scrollbars	02:41
philosohper	mikhas: did what ?	02:41
mikhas	compile kde + plasma on the n900	02:41
ali1234	tarelerulz: no, there arn't only 2 maemo devices, there are 4. and yes, there are more on the way.	02:41
mikhas	and run it	02:41
philosohper	mikhas: ok what more asking to understand if there were technical reason behind nokia decision	02:42
mikhas	maemo always had a strong gtk background?	02:42
mikhas	even before trolltech was bought?	02:42
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tarelerulz	Do you all think Nokia is planing on doing something like google and putting out bunch of phones that run Nikia's Linux	02:43
ali1234	yes, previous maemo versions used gtk. then nokia bought trolltech, so they want to use what they bought.	02:43
mikhas	and why would you care? your qt apps will run on maemo5	02:43
ali1234	otherwise they wouldn't have bought it	02:43
philosohper	interrestng	02:43
ali1234	tarelerulz: google don't make phones	02:44
philosohper	do we have an idea on how the dev env would change with maemo 6	02:44
mikhas	...	02:44
philosohper	i mean how will it be compatible with maemo5 ?	02:44
mikhas	go to gitorious and just take a look at the harmattan tech preview + widget gallery?	02:44
philosohper	mikhas: i know the UI will be completly revolt	02:45
philosohper	but i am talking more under the hood	02:45
mikhas	look at the code, lol	02:45
mikhas	then you know how complete and fundamental the change is going to be	02:45
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mikhas	there was someone on t.m.o writing a pretty good technical review on the harmattan ui	02:46
philosohper	t.m.o ?	02:46
jaem	philosohper, talk.maemo.org	02:46
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dddd1	hi	02:47
mikhas	philosohper, http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=128	02:47
philosohper	btw about ovi maps and offline maps	02:47
mikhas	http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=149	02:47
philosohper	i heard it does work is that true ?	02:47
mikhas	http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=243	02:47
mikhas	that were the 3 posts	02:47
dddd1	the forum talk@maemo.org need more or better mods	02:48
mikhas	pretty good overview, I'd say	02:48
jaem	dddd1, what's the issue?	02:48
dddd1	there are so many trolls it's ridicoulus	02:48
dddd1	for example this guy	02:48
dddd1	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35258	02:48
dddd1	Hi! I am wondering if the Koran app is coming for n900.>	02:48
mikhas	philosohper, it seems you can simply fetch the maps and store them on your n900	02:48
dddd1	>I am also worried about scrolling... Can n900 handle so much crap at the same time?	02:48
dddd1	just ban this idiots	02:49
dddd1	his newest thread:	02:49
dddd1	>Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?	02:49
mikhas	but again, look at t.m.o or so, I dont remember the links and dont have them in my browser's history	02:49
dddd1	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35435	02:49
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dddd1	or just move those thread to offtopic	02:49
jaem	dddd1, that first link is actually kind of amusing, albeit annoying to have on the forums	02:49
philosohper	the ral question is what will happened to the n900 after maemo6 is out	02:51
dddd1	the forums were much nicer to read 1 month ago	02:51
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dddd1	or the n900 - Yes it sucks thread	02:51
jaem	dddd1, yeah, people are stupid	02:51
dddd1	it annoys me because the guys just want to provoke others	02:51
jaem	I could easily point out big flaws in some of the Maemo 5 components, but I like it, and in any case, I wouldn't cause dissension like that	02:52
dddd1	it okay to point out flaws	02:53
dddd1	but not to provoke others	02:53
dddd1	it's just trolling	02:53
* jaem nods		02:53
dddd1	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=383543&postcount=68	02:53
dddd1	or this posting	02:53
dddd1	it was his secind posting	02:54
* timeless_mbp pokes jaem		02:54
* jaem is poked		02:55
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philosohper	DROID ROCKS	02:58
philosohper	lol	02:58
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AakashPatel	DROIDDD	02:59
Pavlov	drois is pretty nice	03:00
Pavlov	droid, too	03:00
AakashPatel	yea	03:00
AakashPatel	but verizon only :(	03:00
AakashPatel	thats a big dealbreaker	03:00
AakashPatel	for me	03:01
Pavlov	i'm on the fence	03:01
Pavlov	their network is fast	03:01
AakashPatel	theyre also commie lol	03:01
Pavlov	and i have a dozen other phones ;/	03:01
AakashPatel	Get an n900?	03:01
Pavlov	yep	03:01
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philosohper	i am think of getting booth	03:01
philosohper	btw AakashPatel about that rebate ?	03:02
AakashPatel	You can use it if you order from amazon	03:02
AakashPatel	and nokia	03:02
AakashPatel	both	03:02
AakashPatel	anywhere really	03:02
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philosohper	nice	03:06
philosohper	so nokia price is really 569 -50 = 519 ?	03:06
AakashPatel	yep	03:06
AakashPatel	and tax if youre lucky	03:06
AakashPatel	plus 4 bucks (or 9 bucks if you're me) for shipping	03:07
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AakashPatel	express is 9 bucks, so i was like 'hell lets go with it'	03:07
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philosohper	AakashPatel: what about the cybermonday rebate ?	03:11
AakashPatel	i havent heard anything about it	03:11
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philosohper	ok	03:12
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AakashPatel	so..i want it tuesday so im ordering today lol	03:12
AakashPatel	tuesday or wed if they acutally mean "in stock"	03:12
pupnik	nokia price is you must join community and help us take over galaxy	03:13
AakashPatel	lol what?	03:13
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pupnik	the "h" key injects nanite DNA patchers	03:14
pupnik	sorry, wrong chan	03:14
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GeneralAntilles	Holy crap	03:23
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GeneralAntilles	I have one 23" screen full of Growl notifications.	03:23
sp3000	sounds like you need to get a bigger screen	03:24
GeneralAntilles	Up, and it's got a bunch queued up for me too.	03:24
PolarFox	I give up.. Making programs for maemo would be easier if I could make hello world AND run it in the freaking scratchbox :P	03:25
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aspidites	name check	03:25
PolarFox	Time to get some sleep.. 3:25 AM and I should be working by 10AM :P	03:25
philosohper	hey does anyone know if droid phone sell bye amazon can be use anywhere ?	03:26
GeneralAntilles	philosohper, this is #maemo.	03:26
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philosohper	i know	03:26
philosohper	lol	03:26
GeneralAntilles	philosohper, wrong place to ask about Droid. :)	03:26
GeneralAntilles	It's CDMA, however.	03:27
philosohper	GeneralAntilles: ok didnt meant to troll	03:27
aspidites	lol	03:27
GeneralAntilles	So it'll only work in the US.	03:27
philosohper	thanks	03:27
jaem	GeneralAntilles, is there an extension to the IRC protocol that slaps people with trout when they ask silly questions? :P	03:27
philosohper	you just prevent a catastrophy lol	03:27
GeneralAntilles	jaem, you tell me. :P	03:27
aspidites	anyone know where i can get an iphone that....j/k	03:27
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GeneralAntilles	I keep clicking these things and new ones keep popping up. :(	03:28
jaem	GeneralAntilles, early versions of KDE4 had a bug where notifications wouldn't disappear	03:28
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jaem	so they'd just stack up three times the height of your screen in no time	03:28
jaem	:P	03:28
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*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -b raz955!@		03:29
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles		03:29
aspidites	serious question: i know how to make a Xephyr screen that mimicks n900's resolution, but how would i go about mimicking the screen dimensions, ie 3.5 in?	03:30
lcuk	stand further away	03:30
lcuk	use a smaller monitor	03:30
GeneralAntilles	aspidites, buy yourself an N900 LCD and wire it up to DVI?	03:30
lcuk	increase desktop resolution	03:30
lcuk	use vnc with scaling function	03:31
aspidites	icuk, the vnc idea sounds more feasible, will try that.	03:31
type_t_	xvnc	03:31
GeneralAntilles	lol, crashanddie is a whore.	03:31
aspidites	standing further away wouldn't work as i'm already nearly legally blind and don't have a wireless keyboard	03:31
lcuk	aspidites, how do you find normal ui work?	03:32
cehteh	some vnc's offer a scaling feature but you loose resolution and sharpness of course	03:32
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, which post?	03:32
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, the bit about the passport in here.	03:32
luke-jr	aspidites: if you're using VNC anyway, might use Xvnc instead of Xephyr	03:33
aspidites	Icuk. not sure i understand the question.	03:33
cehteh	does xvnc support enough extensions for maemo?	03:34
AakashPatel	n900 order placed :D	03:34
AakashPatel	Your order is now in place and is estimated to take 1-3 days to reach you.	03:34
aspidites	congrats aakashpatel.	03:34
jaem	AakashPatel, woot	03:34
AakashPatel	:D	03:34
AakashPatel	im excited	03:34
AakashPatel	lol	03:34
cehteh	others wait since 1-3 months for it :P	03:34
AakashPatel	Haha	03:35
AakashPatel	Nokia USA ftw	03:35
aspidites	will check that out luke-jr. sharpness i'm not too worried about. i'm just trying to convert an app i am developing to maemo/hildon and wanted to get a true idea of how much screen real estate i had	03:35
Chapbass	grats aakashpatel	03:35
jaem	AakashPatel, try getting one in Canada	03:35
cehteh	well .. i wait, others can be the test bunnies :P	03:35
AakashPatel	jaem: Pay me and ill ship one to you	03:35
AakashPatel	haha	03:35
jaem	I was lucky to get mine two days before they launched, since I'm doing a university project	03:35
lcuk	aspidites, the firsttime i experienced maemo5 was with vnc onto my n810 :)	03:35
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jaem	lcuk, lol	03:36
jaem	from the SDK?	03:36
Chapbass	alright, noob question: for some odd reason I cant find the place in the maemo talk user CP to edit sigs...anyone point me to it?	03:36
lcuk	from qwertys sdk actually	03:36
Chapbass	according to search it should be in edit options	03:36
* jaem points to a page on his screen		03:36
Chapbass	but it isnt there...	03:36
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GeneralAntilles	Chapbass, how many posts do you have?	03:37
Chapbass	ah, that might be why	03:37
Chapbass	just signed up today...3 posts i think	03:37
luke-jr	aspidites: you should not be using pixels anyway.	03:37
cehteh	aspidites: you can make a screenshot and scale it down :P	03:37
jaem	cehteh, just push printscreen really fast, eh/	03:38
Chapbass	was just about to ask if there was a restriction on that	03:38
luke-jr	aspidites: design everything in inches (or centimeters if you like metric), and let the widgets do their job of fitting pixels	03:38
GeneralAntilles	Chapbass, think it's 5.	03:38
cehteh	or use some compositing window manager which supports window scaling	03:38
Chapbass	alright, thanks GeneralAntilles	03:38
cehteh	/zooming	03:38
cehteh	well i dont know any	03:38
cehteh	or momemnt compiz allows that? zoom out too?	03:38
cehteh	i dont use that crap :P	03:39
AakashPatel	lol	03:39
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aspidites	luke-jr, well i figured i needed to match the n900's resolution to get a real idea of how things would scale	03:39
cehteh	certainly	03:39
luke-jr	aspidites: if it makes a difference, it's a bug	03:40
aspidites	i'm not worried about widgets not fitting - thats what layout managers are for. i'm worrying about the interface feeling too crowded. i guess though that "perception" should be resolution independent...	03:42
jaem	aspidites, I missed the beginning - where are you doing your development?	03:42
lcuk	in his bedroom	03:43
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jaem	lcuk, har har... I meant in what environment on his computer	03:43
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lcuk	:D	03:43
* lcuk beds anyway		03:43
aspidites	Icuk. your joke is wrong. that should have been mother's basement if i recall	03:43
lcuk	gnite guys	03:43
jaem	g'night, lcuk	03:43
aspidites	i'm developing under linux	03:44
jaem	aspidites, in scratchbox, or externally, though?	03:44
aspidites	2.6.31 kernel if that matters	03:44
aspidites	scratchbox	03:44
jaem	ah, I see	03:44
aspidites	really just started so i haven't really committed to a set up yet. figured it would be easiest to do everything from inside scratchbox though, other than ui design, which i do wiht designer (qt)	03:45
aspidites	may just wait until i get my device though. btw i envy all of you that have already received one	03:47
jaem	hmm... yeah I just checked if Xephyr supports scaling, and it doesn't look like it	03:48
jaem	aspidites, if I'm around, feel free to ask me to test your app	03:48
jaem	which WM are you using?	03:48
Pio	lkjgcx	03:48
Pio		03:48
aspidites	if i'm playing around or demoing linux to friends kde 4.3, if i'm working musca	03:49
jaem	hmm... yeah, I guess your only option for scaling would be vnc, then	03:50
jaem	that must be annoying	03:50
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aspidites	damn. i'll deal. i still need to refactor the UI/UX anyways	03:52
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Venomrush	anyone familiar with the crash reproter?	03:52
Venomrush	*reporter?	03:52
jaem	aspidites, what are you working on, if you don't mind telling?	03:52
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aspidites	right now its little more than a deck editor for a trading card game, but ideally it would allow you to play the tcg online with friends	03:53
jaem	neat	03:53
aspidites	ran into road blocks, then i set eyes on n900 and wanted to port :-)	03:53
jaem	what was your initial target?	03:54
aspidites	cross platform. but linux > windows > mac (some of the libraries that the program currently depends on are a pita to install on os x)	03:55
aspidites	i doubt posting urls is allowed here ,but i have a dev blog documenting my success/failure with the project	03:55
jaem	go ahead	03:55
jaem	there's no issue with that	03:55
aspidites	p339.tuxfamily.org	03:55
aspidites	aside from some coding roadblocks, i ran into life problems as well which helped stagnate development	03:57
jaem	it looks good, althouigh TCGs aren't really my thing	03:58
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aspidites	right. kind of a niche project. really i just didn't like a similar project that runs on windows because there was no support for linux and the community was rather...rude?	03:59
* jaem nods		03:59
jaem	that's as good a reason as any	03:59
aspidites	plus it was closed source and i figured my project was open source so if it ever picked up and i quite someone else could continue	04:00
aspidites	you developed anything for maemo yet?	04:00
jaem	a bit	04:00
jaem	an initial port of a game in August that I haven't gotten back to yer >_<	04:01
jaem	and I'm working on a research project at university	04:01
jaem	under wraps, though	04:01
jaem	I'm fighting with BlueZ docs right now for that project :/	04:01
jaem	do you have any experience with it?	04:01
aspidites	nope. never had any reason too, though i imagine i will.	04:02
aspidites	i'm thinking i might want to develop some widgets before i tackle porting my project.	04:03
aspidites	what toolkit are you leveraging?	04:03
jaem	yeah, I was thinking of that	04:03
jaem	Qt4	04:03
aspidites	nice. pyqt or is pyside usable?	04:03
jaem	the backend library is done mostly in C	04:03
jaem	wrapped in Qt	04:03
jaem	and then a C++/Qt frontend	04:03
aspidites	a c++ nvm	04:03
jaem	we need the speed	04:04
aspidites	dunno why i assumed python ;-)	04:04
aspidites	esp. considering you said game. wish i had the time/patience to mess with c/++ again	04:04
jaem	this isn't a game	04:05
jaem	that was somethng else	04:05
aspidites	not that i remember anthing about either other than i hate semi-colons	04:05
jaem	lol	04:05
timeless_mbp	jaem: so... can strace save us? :(	04:07
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jaem	timeless_mbp, never used it - what do you need done?	04:09
timeless_mbp	apt-get install strace [probably tools repo?]	04:10
timeless_mbp	strace -f /usr/bin/maemo-summoner /usr/bin/worldclock.launch	04:10
timeless_mbp	(something like that)	04:10
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aspidites	well thansk all. thinking about frequenting this channel more often once i get the ball rolling again.	04:19
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jaem	aspidites, please do - glad to help out	04:20
asidjazz	fast hard tough dixon me all night long	04:20
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asidjazz	(mistell was for #football)	04:22
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philosohper	someone know about the cybermonday thing ?	04:27
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Ford_Prefect	Does anyone see libc-dev-bin in their package list?	04:37
Macer	wow	04:39
Macer	grace jones was one ugly bitch	04:39
Macer	hahahahaha\	04:39
cehteh	'was' ?	04:40
Macer	oh	04:40
Macer	she isn't dead	04:40
Macer	well. if she is alive.. then damn she is still one ugly bitch	04:40
Macer	hahaha	04:40
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ShadowJK_	anyone posted instructions for getting pipe shortcut back in xterm yet?	04:52
cehteh	sdk or on the device?	04:53
jaem	ShadowJK_, that reminds me - is there a fix for vim doing strange things on the N900?	04:53
jaem	like when I type :q, and it types a newline and a capital 'M'	04:53
ShadowJK_	I'm not a vim user really, have only used vi in a pinch :)	04:54
jaem	ShadowJK_, ah. vi works fine	04:55
jaem	but I often try to fiddle with code in CS class, remoting one of my computers, and it doesn't play nicely	04:55
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ShadowJK_	cehteh: device mostly. is it different in the sdk?	04:55
jaem	in fact, I generally have to kill it	04:55
jaem	...in doing so, I found out that my uni's server nicely mails you a note telling you how to recover your files from vi or ed if the connection hangs up on you	04:55
jaem	:)	04:56
cehteh	i read about some shortcut with the function key ... you dont have the function key on the sdk	04:56
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* ShadowJK_ added \| with some gconftool abuse		04:59
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jaem	ShadowJK_, info?	05:01
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ShadowJK_	gconftool-2 -t list -s --list-type string /apps/osso/xterm/keys "[bar,Tab,Escape,Page_Up,Page_Down]"	05:07
ShadowJK_	gconftool-2 -t list -s --list-type string /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels "[\|,Tab,Esc,PgUp,PgDn]"	05:07
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jaem	thanks!	05:08
ShadowJK_	huh, pasting multiple lines from Notes to xchat didn't work :)	05:08
ShadowJK_	(had to manually copy both individually)	05:09
jaem	hmm... do you know of any Maemo apps that connect to a BT device which I could use for reference?	05:09
jaem	I'm trying to figure out how best to do this, and it's taking forever	05:09
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ShadowJK_	I saw one in extras claiming to send arbitrary files over bluetooth	05:10
jaem	right!	05:10
jaem	thanks	05:10
pupnik	is there a food or drug i can take that will make video games feel like i was 9 years old in 1978?	05:10
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jaem	pupnik, were you eating or on drugs when you were 9?	05:11
jaem	that might make a difference	05:11
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pupnik	no, i was just new	05:11
jaem	lol	05:11
pupnik	salute jaem :)	05:12
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pupnik	we are on a quest	05:12
jaem	heh	05:12
pupnik	just looking at a cup my mom bought. remembering her expression as she suggested we buy it.	05:13
jaem	?	05:14
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ShadowJK_	oh, there's bluemaemo, of course :)	05:15
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jaem	ShadowJK_, yes, but that's the opposite of what I need	05:16
jaem	lol @ ad fail: "Find Zellers Store Hours at Great Prices"	05:19
jaem	wait... now I need to pay for that?	05:19
jaem	I used to just have to wait through annoying phone messages telling me to get lost and visit the website	05:19
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ShadowJK_	opposite? I'm not sure there's a difference :)	05:22
ShadowJK_	atleast not the connecting bit of it	05:23
ShadowJK_	also Petrovich	05:24
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asidjazz	the app manager needs to detect and display new apps	05:46
ShadowJK_	it'd be kinda funny now when the repos die and resurrect all the time :)	05:47
jaem	ShadowJK_, the issue is that I need to scan to see if a known device is around, and if so, connect to it silently, only asking the user to search/pair if it can't find a trusted device	05:47
GeneralAntilles	asidjazz, patches welcome. ;)	05:48
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jaem	ShadowJK_, and I'm just not sure what the best way to do that is	05:49
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philosohper	any one know about the cybermonday thing ?	05:52
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pupnik	reply sent to:	05:56
pupnik	marketing@12345.ovi.com	05:56
pupnik	it makes you stupid philosohper	05:56
jaem	philosohper, what's this about?	05:57
pupnik	my tits	05:57
philosohper	pupnik: ?	05:57
pupnik	sorry drive by comment	05:58
philosohper	philosohper: just read some rumor on t.m.o about a cerbermonday rebate code for nokia usa	05:58
pupnik	i hate phrases like 'black friday', 'cyber monday' and hope people who find such things meaningful have industrial accidents involving reproductive organs.	05:58
pupnik	ah	05:59
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jaem	FYI, qdbus tools available here: http://adrestia.creativemisconfiguration.com/files/ffejery/maemo/qt/	06:05
jaem	for the N900, that is	06:05
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jaem	I thought they might be useful for someone	06:05
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tran228	who have better touch iphone 3gs or n900 ?	06:06
jkimball4	depends	06:06
jkimball4	on how you use them	06:06
tran228	what do you mean depens	06:06
tran228	you can explain ?	06:06
jkimball4	i phone has multitouch and is capacitive	06:06
jkimball4	so your finger has to touch it	06:07
jkimball4	but you can use a bunch of fingers if you want and they all register	06:07
tran228	i dont really need a multitouch	06:07
tran228	just a better touch	06:07
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jkimball4	n900 requires pressure as opposed to requiring your finger to conduct electricity	06:07
tran228	for messages ( i want to use virtual qwerty keyboard) and internet and numbers..	06:08
jkimball4	why?	06:08
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jkimball4	n900 is a better typing experience since it has real buttons	06:08
jkimball4	it's not really that much thicker considering it has a full keyboard	06:08
tran228	yes i know but i prefer virtual keyboard	06:09
* rm_you\|wtf boggles		06:09
* jkimball4 boggles too		06:09
jkimball4	so you know virtual is crap, but you still prefer it?	06:09
* rm_you\|wtf pokes tran228		06:09
rm_you\|wtf	are you a REAL person?	06:09
* rm_you\|wtf thinks we should run a turing test		06:09
tran228	i love the touch	06:10
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ShadowJK_	I can swipe the smudges off the screen without it registering touches	06:11
ShadowJK_	but no problem activating context menus and picking the right option even with fingers	06:11
jkimball4	i guess.. might as well use someone else finger.. you'll get just as much tactile sensation	06:11
ShadowJK_	the n8x0 touchscreen made it hard even with stylus	06:11
pupnik	fix fuckin pulseaudio	06:13
tran228	nokia x6 will be better :)	06:13
jkimball4	pulseaudio = manure	06:13
pupnik	i think we will have to live with it	06:13
pupnik	i think we will have to live with n900 being as fast as n800 when it plays back audio	06:13
pupnik	which was slower than N770 in some ways	06:14
pupnik	come on	06:14
pupnik	you guys	06:14
pupnik	tell me how to disable eq and x-prot	06:14
pupnik	i will be an annoying ass if you don't	06:15
pupnik	i'm a black belt at that	06:15
pupnik	ok, unfair, 5:15 am	06:16
pupnik	4 weeks nokia	06:16
pupnik	bbl	06:16
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jaem	who's the contact for the Maemo connectivity stacks?	06:17
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jaem	"Think in terms of finding the double barrel shotgun in Doom, getting the Holy Grenade in Worms, looting an epic item in WoW, getting super cow powers in Aptitude." - lol	06:20
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ShadowJK_	with headphones the lowest volume setting on n900 isn't low enough :/	06:37
ShadowJK_	but the sound is much less hissy than on n8x0 :)	06:37
Proteous	just turn your ears down	06:37
Chani	huh	06:38
Chani	worksforme... but... I think I was using my n810'ss headphones	06:38
Proteous	your ears don't have volume controls?	06:38
cehteh	huh you cant turn it to nearly silence?	06:38
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* cehteh thinks thats a bug		06:38
cehteh	same for lighting ... can you turn it as much down that its barely readable in a dark room?	06:39
* cehteh has his laptop brightness almost always down at the lowest level		06:40
* Chani thinks it's a bug that turning the volume down doesn't affect sound effects		06:40
Chani	have to actually set it to sielent mode to avoid being woinken up by random messages	06:40
ShadowJK_	it doesn't go as low as n810 with the combined brightness and volume applet	06:40
cehteh	urgs	06:40
ShadowJK_	I wish I could turn off ts sounds but keep the vib	06:40
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GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK_, we're working on it. ;)	06:42
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* ShadowJK_ ponders about volume		06:43
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ShadowJK_	the lowest isn't uncomfortably loud, but it's significantly louder than what I usually listen at, and obviously very far from a what I'd listen at f I just want something qin the background..	06:45
ShadowJK_	something quiet*	06:45
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jaem	my issue is that I have to turn notification sounds off when I go to sleep so that a daily digest e-mail doesn't wake me up at 4am, but then I forget to switch it back on	06:46
jaem	Chani, hi	06:47
Chani	o hai	06:47
jaem	I was just discussing my DBus problem with the folks in #qt	06:47
jaem	I think it's just bad docs on Nokia's part	06:47
jaem	which has made me waste quite a bit of time :/	06:47
pupnik	it happens	06:47
jaem	heh	06:47
pupnik	i know its frustrating	06:47
ShadowJK_	oh nice. alsamixer can make it go lower	06:47
jaem	well, when the docs say a method returns something, and it apparently doesn't, and you're new enough to the technology that you don't realize that...	06:48
jaem	it's really frustrating	06:48
jaem	lol	06:48
pupnik	yes	06:48
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pupnik	and try to take notes jaem	06:48
jaem	ShadowJK_, is the system notification volume handled on a layer above alsa?	06:48
pupnik	i was always bad at that	06:48
pupnik	gst-?	06:48
jaem	pupnik, yes, I am going to write a long blog post about this afterward :P	06:49
ShadowJK_	jaem: dunno	06:49
jaem	and then e-mail it to myself two days ago	06:49
jaem	-grin-	06:49
jaem	seriously, though - the lack of a good, solid, up-to-date tutorial on BlueZ is astounding	06:49
ShadowJK_	i have the silent profile on now anyway	06:49
jaem	everything I can find is outdated, incomplete, or far too verbose for a beginner	06:50
ShadowJK_	yes	06:50
jaem	there was a book that looked helpful, but it wasn't free, wasn't in my uni's library, and was probably outdated too :/	06:50
jaem	sigh	06:50
ShadowJK_	and the userspace tools no longer work with bluez, so you can spend days wondering wtf	06:50
jaem	ShadowJK_, which tools?	06:51
ShadowJK_	rfcomm was dead at one point	06:51
jaem	it would be kind of nice if you could define your own profiles, e.g. ring for calls, but not e-mail/IM alerts, but that would likely be too complicated for most users	06:51
pupnik	k	06:52
jaem	wait... what?	06:52
jaem	you mean rfcomm the program?	06:52
ShadowJK_	yeah	06:52
jaem	wheew	06:52
jaem	I thought you meant the rfcomm subsystem, and I was temporarily feeling doomed ;)	06:52
cehteh	no fuse on the n900 kernel?	06:53
* ShadowJK_ sets PCM to -18dB with alsamixer		06:53
ShadowJK_	I bet it will be too quiet without headphones now..	06:54
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ShadowJK_	ah no. it reset eveything to 0dB.. good thing i didnt touch the uservisible sound controls or Id be deaf now :)	06:55
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pupnik	the usa is a meat malignancy	07:14
pupnik	no wait	07:15
pupnik	better metaphor	07:15
pupnik	the USA is a hive of insects	07:15
doc\|home	^ and that kids, is why you shouldn't do drugs	07:16
AakashPatel	haha	07:17
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GeneralAntilles	pupnik, :(	07:19
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tigert	cehteh: at least theres sshfs in repository	07:19
cehteh	ah ok, didnt found it on the emulator	07:19
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cehteh	but some packages are only on ARMEL	07:19
jaem	tigert, which repo? I'd been wondering about that	07:23
jaem	that would greatly simplify my testing workflow	07:23
pupnik	doc\|home: you sir are unwelcome here	07:26
pupnik	go	07:26
cehteh	you need kernel support for fuse, that was my initial question	07:26
pupnik	you gain nothing from being here	07:27
pupnik	and you will cause harm	07:27
pupnik	doc\|home:	07:27
doc\|home	now now arnim, there's no need for that	07:27
pupnik	now now doc\|home look at what i have for you	07:27
cehteh	guess no crypto in the kernel either so i have to build a kernel anyways :P	07:27
pupnik	do you want to chat live?	07:27
doc\|home	why would I want to chat with someone who seems to be off their meds?	07:28
pupnik	i think you are just digging, digging, digging	07:28
pupnik	for a landmine doc	07:28
* ShadowJK_ recommends he use of /ignore		07:28
doc\|home	er, what?	07:28
doc\|home	fair point	07:29
* doc\|home goes to do something productive		07:29
pupnik	doc\|home is quite possibly one of the most evil persons on this network	07:29
pupnik	a so-called gatekeeper	07:30
pupnik	and spy	07:30
pupnik	full-on evil alert	07:30
pupnik	:)	07:30
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doc\|home	o.O	07:30
pupnik	it's just my spidey senses tingling, guys	07:31
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pupnik	y'all have to keep a sharp eye on your servers	07:31
pupnik	a very, very sharp eye	07:31
doc\|home	that's libel	07:31
pupnik	cause the doc is here to treat you	07:32
pupnik	right	07:32
pupnik	the doc\|home	07:32
pupnik	doc\|home and doc\|work are nicks you should never, ever, ever chat with :)	07:33
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doc\|home	yes! I'm evil!	07:33
pupnik	sorry maemo	07:33
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doc\|home	what a whackjob	07:33
AakashPatel	huh	07:33
doc\|home	we've had run-ins in the past, he's a couple of cans short of a six-pack	07:34
AakashPatel	haha	07:34
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tigert	cehteh: tested and it worked	07:49
cehteh	cool	07:49
tigert	so it is in kernel	07:49
cehteh	thanks	07:49
tigert	jaem: maemo extras maybe?	07:50
GeneralAntilles	doc\|home, never trust the dark liquors. ;)	07:50
tigert	or -devel	07:50
doc\|home	GeneralAntilles: hehe	07:50
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ML-37_770	lololo	08:10
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* RST38h moos		08:14
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* jaem is annoyed at Nokia		08:22
jaem	specifically, at whoever wrote this: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/libconbtui/src/conbtdialogs-dbus.h	08:23
jaem	I've spent a good portion of today trying to figure out why show_search_dlg doesn't seem to return anything, only to find out that it looks like it /actually/ doesn't	08:23
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jaem	but since they didn't add DBus Introspection, I've having trouble making sure	08:24
jaem	:/	08:24
jaem	also, I had to code up the Introspection XML file myself	08:24
jaem	grr	08:24
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jaem	who would I complain to about that? I don't want to file a bug, since part of it probably isn't one, and the rest definitely isn't, but it's rather annoying	08:26
jaem	s/complain/talk/ :P	08:27
lcuk	file a bug. its the best way to make sure devs see it	08:27
jaem	lcuk, okay, fair enough	08:27
wrapster	i have just finished writing a python app .. would like to provide a UI for it.. would it be better to use python itself or qt?	08:27
lcuk	and you can discuss it rationally	08:27
wrapster	mind you that i need to later port it to maemo as well!!	08:27
jaem	if they'd done things a bit better, it would have saved me a lot of frustration :P	08:27
jaem	wrapster, Qt's nice, although I haven't used it with Python	08:28
jaem	and it's about as cross-platform as you can get with that sort of thing	08:28
jaem	lcuk, thanks	08:28
lcuk	jaem, bugs occur all the time in all software. only when someone else codes up new stuff (instead of using the existing) do things get discovered. as a dev you should know that	08:28
jaem	lcuk, yes... but I'm still learning DBus, and I'm not entirely certain it isn't my fault	08:29
jaem	so I was hesitant	08:29
jaem	but at any rate, there are some ways they could improve it	08:29
lcuk	lol	08:29
lcuk	nahhh from my own code	08:29
lcuk	i know how easily i could write something like that	08:29
lcuk	and forget to return correct result	08:30
lcuk	especially since theres a result variable specifically afterwards	08:30
jaem	heh	08:30
jaem	but the lack of Introspection ability is annoying	08:30
lcuk	so dbus allows it does it?	08:30
wrapster	jaem: here is the thing.. i was here yday as well.. and got the pythong app running on n900 now if you could suggest what could be a good option for a UI it will be great.. im new to python (UI programming) and qt so does not make differnce.	08:31
jaem	introspection? yes, but you have to implement the right interface	08:31
jaem	and write up some XML	08:31
jaem	26 lines, but I had to look it up for the first time, and do it by hand	08:31
wrapster	but if you could point me out to some links where such a thing has already been done for n900 i can take a look at it and learn faster.. pressed for time thats y.	08:31
jaem	wrapster, I'd say go with Qt, but I've never tried GTK	08:31
jaem	wrapster, I'll try - give me a sec	08:32
wrapster	jaem: ok	08:32
jaem	what's the project?	08:32
lcuk	wrapster, learn to oogle	08:32
lcuk	no1 can show you a full ui subsystem	08:32
lcuk	pygtk	08:32
lcuk	qt python thingy	08:32
lcuk	pygame even	08:32
lcuk	any of hte common examples will work on device	08:32
jaem	lcuk, I don't think wrapster wanted a complete run-down, just code for reference	08:32
jaem	I presume the N900 is using PySide for Qt, right?	08:33
wrapster	jaem: correct..	08:33
lcuk	i think so	08:35
wrapster	jaem: im dont have the phone so some one on the IRC should only help me.	08:35
jaem	wrapster, are you getting one?	08:35
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wrapster	jaem: should be in sometime though	08:35
jaem	people here are usually happy to test, but you'll want your own :P	08:35
wrapster	jaem: i know that.. but could you please let me in on this one....	08:36
jaem	wrapster, well, as lcuk and I said, if you want to use Qt with Python, you'll want PySide	08:36
wrapster	hmm ok.	08:36
jaem	I'm not sure how stable that is (and thus, which repo it would be in), but a quick search should tell you that	08:36
doc\|suk\|dik		08:36
jaem	Qt has pretty good documentation, and if you search for "PySide examples", or some such, that should get you going	08:37
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doc\|suk\|dik	hi!	08:40
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RST38h	Hehe: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/10/14/michael_dell_churchill_club_speech/	08:42
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doc\|suk\|dik		08:51
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mece	Boss just handed me 2 N900's :)	08:53
Sargun	fuck you	08:53
Sargun	bastar	08:53
Sargun	d	08:53
Sargun	-_-	08:53
mece	heh	08:53
* Sargun had his n900 ship		08:53
doc\|home	for the record doc\|suk\|dik = pupnik	08:53
* Sargun is waiting for his N900		08:55
doc\|home	Nov 29 04:05:36 *pupnik (n=pupnik@p54B2F398.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #maemo	08:55
Sargun	it should get her tomorrow	08:55
lcuk	her?	08:55
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles		08:56
GeneralAntilles	doc\|suk\|dik, don't make me call Freenode in on you.	08:56
GeneralAntilles	doc\|suk\|dik, impersonation will get you a k-line.	08:57
GeneralAntilles	So, let's try not to be a prick tonight, thanks.	08:57
*** doc\|suk\|dik was kicked by GeneralAntilles (GeneralAntilles)		08:57
doc\|home	I should have pointed out he mispelt dick	08:57
* doc\|home shrugs		08:57
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simula_	does anyone know of a link that could help me resize my /home partition at the expense of /home/user/MyDocs?	09:01
simula_	or a way to make /home/user/MyDocs executable... removing noexec from the fstab entry gets the fstab file rewritten on startup	09:03
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Proteous	brilliant spam filter evasion: This pills will help you "resize your /home partition"	09:03
simula_	heh	09:03
mece	Sargun, These are not mine as such though. It's phones for developing crap on for work. My own phone should be here friday or monday	09:04
jaem	mece, yeah, same for me, only I can't afford my own :(	09:04
jaem	that said, I should be able to keep the loaner for a while	09:04
mece	o	09:05
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jaem	?	09:05
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ShadowJK_	i feel fear each time i touch bugzilla and it spews out mails to a bunch of people	09:09
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Sargun	lol	09:09
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*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles		09:19
* Stskeeps wtf's at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35435		09:21
lorelei^	isn't tmo a huge wtf since a few months ago? (but yeah, wtf that thread also...)	09:22
Stskeeps	especially since we don't really have DRM or the likes on the platform..	09:23
Stskeeps	:P	09:23
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Stskeeps	also, we need to ban the word 'dealbreaker'	09:24
lorelei^	:) that, and a few more words	09:25
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ShadowJK_	how about automatic word substitutions instead?	09:25
ShadowJK_	s/dealbreaker/squealingbadger/g on all of tmo	09:26
Stskeeps	and s/Maemo.org/maemo.org/g	09:26
* ShadowJK_ wonders how many people will shoot him if he opens a "Lowest volume is not low enough" bug		09:27
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Xisdibik	is qwerty still sleeping? :O	09:31
Stskeeps	or he's in school	09:31
* Xisdibik also shoots ShadowJK_ for opening that bug ;)		09:32
Xisdibik	Stskeeps: if i had a n900, and was in school, id be on IRC :-P	09:32
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* lorelei^ won't shoot ShadowJK_ (my N800 FM receiver is too loud, even with everything at the minimum...don't know for N900)		09:33
Ford_Prefect	<3 mem-monitor-smaps	09:34
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lcuk	Xisdibik, in my sons school they confescate tech till the end of term	09:35
lcuk	imagine 3 months without new n900	09:36
jaem	lcuk, yikes!	09:36
jaem	we didn't have fancy schmancy N900s when I was in high school	09:36
luke-jr	lcuk: go get it yourself?	09:36
jaem	we relied on our trusty TI-83+'s for games	09:36
luke-jr	lcuk: if they refuse to give it to you, that's called theft	09:36
Xisdibik	lcuk: would you give your son a n900? :P	09:36
lcuk	Xisdibik, its any tech	09:36
KenYoung	I used a slide rule!	09:36
jaem	I was the only guy in the school with a link cable, so I supplied all the games	09:36
lcuk	but yeah id love to get him one	09:36
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lcuk	he keeps kickin mine and goin mental at what it does	09:37
Xisdibik	lcuk: why would you send him to that kinda school, sounds like prison :P	09:37
lcuk	nickin	09:37
jaem	...and then laughed while everyone got busted for playing games in math class	09:37
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Xisdibik	better hope hes not kickin ur n900 :D	09:37
Stskeeps	jaem: and the ti83's very likely the only devices they couldn't take away as it was needed for class	09:37
jaem	the usual punishment for which was to spend all of lunch break doing purposely tedious long division problems	09:37
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jaem	easy, but very tedious	09:37
Xisdibik	i used my ti83 for games as well back in the day :)	09:37
jaem	Stskeeps, they would, actually, but only for part of the day	09:38
lcuk	back in my day calculators didnt come supplied with games	09:38
lcuk	we had to make our own up lol	09:38
Xisdibik	lcuk: thats an abbacus not a calculator ;)	09:38
lcuk	lol	09:38
jaem	I remember at one point I got someone to pay me $5 to tell him what the boss-button for one of the shells was	09:38
jaem	and then I laughed as he got busted anyway	09:38
plr_	I had ti85 and a link cable :) (well, still do - don't know about the cable though)	09:38
lcuk	we used to see who could get the 1++ counter upto 1000 fastest	09:38
jaem	...of course, the info was easily available online	09:38
Xisdibik	yea i still have my ti83	09:38
lcuk	online o_O	09:39
jaem	Xisdibik, I do too, but I normally just use either my N810 or N900 to emulate it	09:39
Xisdibik	thats one piece of tech that hasnt changed much in recent years	09:39
lcuk	that was something psoken of in hushed circles at my school	09:39
jaem	lcuk, meh... apparently $5 was worth less than the time to Google it	09:39
jaem	haha	09:39
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Xisdibik	jaem: well im in university now, and during exams the teacher wont let us use our mobiles, but a ti83 is ok ;)	09:39
Xisdibik	i had one teacher let me use my mobile for calculating once	09:40
jaem	Xisdibik, my uni is pretty strict	09:40
Xisdibik	my uni is very relaxed	09:40
jaem	I think the official banned items list for exams now includes programmable watches	09:40
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Xisdibik	the strictest bit is some teachers require photo id, so they know its you and not someone else taking the exam	09:40
Xisdibik	but they are few and far between	09:41
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jaem	last semester, when they put the extended list in place, I checked and realized I had 13 objects on my person that violated their rules :P	09:41
jaem	on an average day	09:41
Xisdibik	lol	09:41
Xisdibik	as long as your not actively cheating, most teachers dont care what u use on an exam	09:41
Xisdibik	but god so many students cheat in the big lecture classes	09:41
jaem	hmm... here they care, just on principle	09:41
lcuk	"sorry, just need to bring my study coach in with me"	09:41
mece	heh found a bug!	09:41
jaem	lol	09:42
jaem	well, some cell phones have a "vibrate SMS in morse code" feature - I have to wonder if anyone has exploited that yet	09:42
Xisdibik	rofl	09:42
jaem	obscure, yes - easy to get away with, also yes	09:42
jaem	not that I would	09:42
jaem	but it is vaguely amusing	09:42
Xisdibik	my econometrics teacher wont let me near a computer during an exam except the class ones, because he knows i know alot about them	09:43
Xisdibik	first day of class i tought him how to do everything he was teaching us faster ;)	09:43
lcuk	jaem	09:43
lcuk	buzzzzzzzzzzz buzzzzzzzzzz buzz	09:43
lcuk	could work	09:44
lcuk	really well	09:44
Xisdibik	it would work well until randomly between morse code exam answers	09:44
Xisdibik	your mom texts you asking to get milk on the way home, or something to that effect	09:44
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lcuk	depending on where you hide the device and choice of ringtone you have, there could also be some other comical sideeffects	09:45
Xisdibik	lol	09:45
mece	hey could someone recreate this (very minor) bug on their N900?	09:45
jaem	lcuk, oh... let me tell you about that >:)	09:46
jaem	first year	09:46
jaem	I got a new cell phone	09:46
jaem	and the carrier gave me one free ring tone download (the most generous thing they've ever done :/)	09:46
Xisdibik	are you sure we wanna hear this jaem? :p	09:46
jaem	most of them were stupid pop songs and celebrity quotes	09:46
jaem	Xisdibik, yes	09:46
Xisdibik	haha k	09:46
jaem	and the only one that looked interesting was "Air Raid Siren"	09:46
Xisdibik	lol	09:47
jaem	...you can probably see where this is going	09:47
Xisdibik	yep	09:47
Xisdibik	but continue	09:47
jaem	I accidentally left it on during an exam, in the front of the room	09:47
jaem	it rang...	09:47
jaem	muffled, under a coat, and due to the acoustics of the lecture hall, it was hard to tell where it was coming from	09:47
jaem	my prof freaked out and tried to evacuate the room	09:47
jaem	-snerk-	09:47
Xisdibik	lol	09:47
jaem	and I sheepishly say... "that's... my... phone..."	09:48
jaem	right before everyone runs out	09:48
lcuk	yikes	09:48
mece	LOL	09:48
jaem	I didn't get in trouble, though	09:48
Xisdibik	did you get an A in that class? :)	09:48
jaem	I think the prof was too embarrassed to mention it	09:48
ML-37_770	great	09:49
ML-37_770	err	09:49
mece	Hey anyone here with an N900?	09:49
ML-37_770	lol thats great	09:49
jaem	yep	09:49
Xisdibik	no one here has a n900	09:49
Xisdibik	they are vaporware	09:49
mece	figured :P	09:49
ML-37_770	just ordeered mine	09:49
jaem	mece, what do you need?	09:49
mece	either way. in xterm, ssh to a server, then exit from the server.	09:50
jaem	yep	09:50
jaem	what're you wondering?	09:50
mece	the title of the xterm remains that of the remote server	09:50
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jaem	yeah, that happens on KDE sometimes too	09:50
jaem	not sure why	09:50
mece	DEALBREAKER!!!	09:50
mece	;)	09:50
mece	anyway	09:50
tigert	your local prompt doesnt set title maybe	09:50
* jaem slaps mece with a trout		09:50
tigert	most linux distros do that in bash	09:50
mece	I guess so.	09:50
tigert	but n900 has ash	09:51
mece	it's not bash though.	09:51
tigert	you can apt-get install bash	09:51
tigert	I guess	09:51
tigert	so I dunno if ash supports such prompt stuff	09:51
jaem	tigert, I really wish it didn't use BusyBox	09:51
jaem	but I guess it's reasonable	09:51
tigert	jaem: space reasons yeah	09:51
mece	ok well I wont file a bug then..	09:51
jaem	yay! I'm not getting the "This will probably end badly..." error anymore :D	09:51
Xisdibik	thought it was a dealbreaker mece ;)	09:51
jaem	that's probably a good thing	09:51
mece	lol	09:51
ML-37_770	haa	09:52
mece	Xisdibik, it got better.	09:52
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mece	Xisdibik, e.g I'm no longer a newt	09:52
Xisdibik	what are you now? a toad? salamander?	09:53
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mece	Xisdibik, What are nerds no longer into monty python? Shame on you!	09:55
mece	nerds are just too cool for their own good these days.	09:56
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Xisdibik	mece: i havnt seen monty python things in years	09:56
Xisdibik	its also midnight so my brains on standby	09:57
timeless_mbp	jaem: our physics teacher had a policy about the ti's	09:57
jaem	mece, since nerds aren't cool by definition, a non-zero value of cool is also by definition not good for them ;)	09:57
timeless_mbp	we had to reset their memory	09:57
timeless_mbp	or trade ours in for tests	09:57
jaem	timeless_mbp, ha! there were apps to fake that	09:57
timeless_mbp	since i always had programs	09:57
jaem	it's dead easy	09:57
timeless_mbp	afaik no one cheated it	09:57
jaem	that's good	09:57
jaem	I don't endorse cheating, but I can appreciate genius as long as it's not /too/ evil	09:58
DangerMaus	hehe	09:58
timeless_mbp	anyway, i always had stuff on mine that i didn't want to lose, so i always traded	09:58
Xisdibik	yea im against cheating, but finding loopholes isnt cheating ;)	09:58
timeless_mbp	jaem: formally, there's an @author line in your .h file	09:58
mece	jaem, yes but nerds, or at least nerdy things are seen in a very different way than they were 20 years ago.	09:58
timeless_mbp	i'd email it just for kicks	09:58
jaem	timeless_mbp, I don't know if they still sell them, but did you ever see the "school calculator" models, with the bright orange backplates?	09:59
jaem	timeless_mbp, where?	09:59
timeless_mbp	the /fremantle/ url you posted over an hour ago	09:59
timeless_mbp	you were complaining about dbus introspection?	09:59
jaem	oh, that's what you meant	10:00
jaem	yeah, that might be worthwhile	10:00
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jaem	thanks	10:00
jaem	brb	10:00
Xisdibik	alright i cant stay awake any longer, see you all later	10:00
jaem	g'night Xisdibik	10:00
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mece	"who" doesn't seem to work properly on this thing...	10:03
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luke-jr	mece: or you don't know how to use it ;)	10:05
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mece	luke-jr, how do I use it then?	10:07
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jaem	luke-jr, how many ways are there to use the "who" command?	10:13
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* jaem runs man who		10:14
jaem	....apparently a lot... nvm	10:14
jaem	lol	10:14
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mece	man is not installed apparently.	10:15
jaem	mece, nope	10:15
jaem	unfortunately	10:15
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jaem	but manpages are usually on the web	10:15
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mece	nod	10:16
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luke-jr	I actually thought he meant the IRC WHO command...	10:18
luke-jr	:p	10:18
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Stskeeps	that one has a lot of options too	10:19
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luke-jr	Stskeeps: but no man page	10:20
Stskeeps	sure it does, /who -? on some ircds	10:20
ShadowJK	heh, not on this one	10:21
luke-jr	that's not a man page	10:21
ShadowJK	A man page would be useless, the syntax and features varies somewhat between servers	10:22
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luke-jr	[02:22:31] *** SOTFts32721 is now known as hey.	10:23
luke-jr	[02:22:33] <-- hey has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).	10:23
luke-jr	my bot gets a LITTLE smarter?	10:23
luke-jr	now if only he stuck around after renaming XD	10:23
viggi	lol	10:23
mece	luke-jr, maybe he's shy	10:23
luke-jr	XD	10:23
Stskeeps	you are now as intelligent as people communicating through no-nickname-changes mode..	10:23
mece	you think my (workplace's) phone will explode if I add the sdk tools repository and install some crap from there?	10:24
jaem	mece, yes	10:24
jaem	yes I do	10:24
jaem	literally explode	10:24
mece	jaem, explode, really?	10:24
jaem	and probably blow a hole in the wall	10:24
jaem	mece, known bug	10:24
mece	jaem, well now I really have to try it.	10:24
luke-jr	lol	10:24
jaem	...er... "feature"	10:24
jaem	yes	10:24
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jaem	in case you need to blow up a wall	10:24
mece	jaem, well, I could do with a bigger office	10:25
jaem	no, but seriously, don't	10:25
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luke-jr	ROFL	10:25
viggi	basic McGyver feature :p	10:25
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jaem	as far as I know, you should be able to run an sdk chroot	10:25
mece	so where do I get x11-utils then?	10:25
luke-jr	heh	10:25
jaem	there's a forum thread - Google it	10:25
luke-jr	the next 'hey' parted and rejoined...	10:25
lcuk	mece i have built using my n900 since the day i got it	10:25
jaem	I'm not sure if they've worked it all out yet, but it should be possible	10:26
jaem	lcuk, how?	10:26
lcuk	one of the first things i attempted to do was setup build-essential :)	10:26
jaem	on the device's rootfs?	10:26
lcuk	on a clean device its pretty simple	10:26
jaem	or in a chroot?	10:26
lcuk	yeah	10:26
mece	lcuk, figured as much. I just want some shell tools for playing around. have a couple of users logged in on the phone.	10:26
jaem	and it didn't eat your hamster?	10:26
lcuk	nahh	10:26
jaem	I thought the sdk repo was prone to do that	10:26
lcuk	add sdk and tools	10:26
lcuk	make sure there was enough space	10:26
lcuk	apt-getinstall build-essential	10:26
lcuk	done	10:26
jaem	I presume they don't install to /opt :P	10:26
Stskeeps	you want to grab the development SDK instead	10:27
lcuk	i asked, they should	10:27
Stskeeps	err	10:27
Stskeeps	chroot	10:27
lcuk	i want all the -dev ones too	10:27
jaem	Stskeeps, link?	10:27
lcuk	but i havent the time or knowledge to run through them	10:27
mece	lcuk, I'm not gonna add the compilers and that. Just some shell tools	10:27
jaem	I'd like to be able to work on this project on the bus/train tomorrow	10:27
lcuk	mece, shell tools may be more restricted i believe	10:27
lcuk	you have the mini shell thingy errr i forget its name	10:27
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lcuk	the one that screws up all gnu tools	10:27
mece	lcuk, well can't be more restricted than the stuff in the regular repos	10:28
jaem	lcuk, clue - it's busy	10:28
jaem	and it's a box	10:28
lcuk	yeah lol	10:28
lcuk	thx	10:28
jaem	np	10:28
mece	lcuk, well bash was in the regular repos	10:28
* jaem growls at busybox		10:28
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jaem	mece, yes, but busybox is like GNU utilities with an eating disorder	10:28
Stskeeps	jaem: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32772&highlight=sdk+chroot i think	10:28
mece	jaem, lol	10:28
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mece	I don't want a dev environment though.. just x11-utils and bsdutils and such.	10:30
Stskeeps	might get your device into a reboot loop	10:30
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odin_	how do you install your own "Trusted Root Certificates" in the Launcher -> Settings -> Certificate Manager ?	10:33
mece	oo zenity seems like fun times. I want that!	10:33
mece	http://zenity.garage.maemo.org/	10:33
mece	oh well.	10:34
mece	I think I'll brick my own device instead, once I get it.	10:34
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DangerMaus	hehe mece thats always fun	10:40
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RST38h	Well... Moo.	10:55
derf	Moo RST38h.	10:56
odin_	is it possible to change the powersaving modes depending on if its plugged in, on battery, etc.... also to increase the screen fade out delay before it goes off ?	10:56
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derf	I can't believe 2+ years later they still don't provide power profiles.	10:57
odin_	also had problem with the camera app, I think it needs to extra threading adding and checking what parts of the kernel API can block and need to be reset-able	11:00
RST38h	heya derf	11:02
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RST38h	odin: I remember seeing some setting about different behavior when being charged. Check Screen steeings	11:02
RST38h	settings	11:02
odin_	how many cores does it have ? and how does threading affect battery life ?	11:02
suihkulokki	dude, you sound like a ricer	11:03
* RST38h strokes his core		11:03
odin_	what is a ricer ?	11:04
Oli``	wtf?! I've run out of disk space! Why is the root fs only 200-odd megs big?	11:04
* RST38h sighs		11:04
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derf	RST38h: Another day in #maemo.	11:05
PolarFox	This channel could use a FAQ that would include just that one question :)	11:05
derf	You didn't expect anything new, did you?	11:05
jaem	Oli``, don't ask me, but apps are supposed to be packaged to stash things in /opt, which is symlinked to a larger partition	11:05
jaem	Oli``, are you by any chance installing things from repos other than extra?	11:05
odin_	Oli``, how did you fill it ?	11:05
jaem	a lot of those aren't packaged in that way yet	11:05
RST38h	derf: Well, I kinda hoped the	11:05
RST38h	"newtmo" will not come here	11:06
derf	Maybe once I actually get my device I can fill the channel with me cursing at the DSP for you.	11:06
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RST38h	Oli: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=399897	11:07
odin_	yay my login works on meamo.org now	11:07
Oli``	Oh I think it's because I used apt-get	11:07
* RST38h should try konttori's scaling API and promptly curse it, to create some lively online content		11:07
RST38h	Oli: No, it is because you installed lots of crap.	11:07
derf	I could curse garage's svn, if that would help.	11:07
RST38h	Oli: BUT, try rebooting. There is a magic trick performed by rebooting =)	11:08
jaem	RST38h, what?	11:08
Oli``	RST38h: I didn't but hey	11:08
odin_	but my email address for bugs is diff from my garage email? is that ok for karma?	11:08
RST38h	bug 5450	11:08
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450 Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space	11:08
jaem	oh, that	11:09
jaem	heh	11:09
jaem	fail	11:09
vesa	aye, but atleast it's workaroundable	11:09
Oli``	oh look - apt-get clean gave me 50 megs back	11:09
RST38h	Ah, cool	11:09
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jaem	timeless_mbp, hiya	11:11
timeless_mbp	hey	11:11
timeless_mbp	i got my other n900 back	11:11
jaem	I sent that guy an e-mail - thanks for pointing out the address	11:11
jaem	\o/	11:11
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tank-man	other? wtf ever hear of sharing?	11:12
jaem	turns out BlueZ doesn't have Introspection either... :/	11:12
jaem	so I'm having fun writing XML	11:12
jaem	grr	11:12
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jaem	O_o	11:15
jaem	my shoulder just made a squelching noise	11:15
jaem	this is probably not good	11:15
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jaem	too much time typing :P	11:15
DangerMaus	exchange it	11:15
jaem	DangerMaus, warranty's up	11:15
DangerMaus	haha	11:16
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mece	nåjo	11:17
mece	anyone tried to repartition the thing so that the 256mb card is used as swap and the rootfs is on the emmc?	11:17
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jaem	mece, I don't know how easy or advisable that particular configuration would be	11:17
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Oli``	wouldn't that be really really slow?	11:20
Stskeeps	it's not a card, it's a NAND	11:20
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ShadowJK	and it's not even a block device	11:21
ShadowJK	Anyone noticed how in Maemo4 swappiness was set to 1, and now it's 100? :)	11:22
* Stskeeps wonders idly if nokia busy shooting themselves in the foot again		11:22
Stskeeps	+is	11:22
ShadowJK	hm?	11:22
jaem	huh	11:22
Stskeeps	PeterMaemo on twitter, Over 400 wallpapers for #n900 featured on http://n900wallpapers.com/b...	11:22
jaem	ShadowJK, have you tried messing with the swappiness?	11:23
Stskeeps	http://n900wallpapers.com/browse/video_games	11:23
Stskeeps	:P	11:23
ShadowJK	jaem, not really	11:23
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jaem	Stskeeps, lol :)	11:23
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ShadowJK	jaem, I tried 100 on my N810 (way before N900), and it was faster at first	11:23
jaem	and then...?	11:23
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odin_	what thing should go up on brainstorm ? any old crap ? LOL... someone over the weekend said an idea to add the task manager (Ctrl+Backspace) function to the "Power Off Menu" would be good to put up as brainstorm ?	11:24
L0cutus	re	11:24
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jaem	odin_, um... what?!	11:24
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jaem	lol	11:24
odin_	jaem, which part is not clear ?	11:25
jaem	odin_, it's clear, just silly	11:25
ShadowJK	jaem, well, flash memory hits, you die?	11:25
jaem	I was laughing	11:25
odin_	what is silly ?	11:25
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doc\|suk\|dik	so does anybody have a nice blog for irc law? i don't want to spend too much money	11:26
jaem	the task manager on the menu :S	11:26
doc\|suk\|dik	threats, harrassment etc	11:26
odin_	which part the idea or the using brainstorm ?	11:26
jaem	banhammer! quick!	11:26
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odin_	yes a menu item to make the device to back to task manager, the issue is I had an unresponsive app, so I go for the power off button to fix device	11:26
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jaem	oh...	11:27
jaem	sorry, I didn't mean that to be rude	11:27
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doc\|suk\|dik	oh it's almost as good as politics on undernet	11:27
jaem	but if the app is unresponsive, why couldn't you still click the switcher button?	11:27
jaem	that's not part of the app	11:27
odin_	nope	11:27
jaem	hmm	11:27
odin_	the pointer and UI did not work	11:27
jaem	then doing it from the menu probably wouldn't work, unless the touchscreen itself had locked up and you could still use the keyboard	11:28
jaem	but if the app, or the desktop UI is frozen, you're probably out of luck	11:28
odin_	Ctrl+Backspace did (but I needed to know about it) my instinct was to use power off button to force the only menu I knew I would get up	11:28
jaem	ohhhh	11:28
jaem	okay, I misunderstood you	11:28
jaem	yeah, that would be good	11:28
jaem	I thought you said that Ctrl+Backspace wasn't working either, in which case you're probably hooped	11:29
odin_	from ripping peaces in me to praise all in 3 mins	11:29
jaem	lol	11:29
* jaem is sheepish		11:29
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jaem	baaaa	11:29
odin_	but it is an idea that "Brainstorm" is to be used for ?	11:29
Khertan	~ping	11:29
infobot	~pong	11:29
odin_	for feedback ?	11:29
DangerMaus	jaem, are you my daaaa-dy	11:30
jaem	odin_, not the best suited, but it's likely more relevant than a lot of what's on there, if it's like most Brainstorm sites I've seen :P	11:30
jaem	DangerMaus, no	11:30
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jaem	unless you're from the future, in which case it would be maybe, but probably not	11:30
odin_	so best to file a regular feature enchancement request ?	11:31
jaem	odin_, probably, yeah	11:31
jaem	it's a bit more of a picky detail than what Brainstorm's meant for, I think	11:32
jaem	although it is a good idea	11:32
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julianoliver	anyone else been hit by the "wi-fi setup compliant" WPA bug? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6173	11:33
povbot	Bug 6173: N900 does not connect to WPA PSK (TRENDNet TEW-432BRP)	11:33
julianoliver	that's the one.	11:33
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Stskeeps	julianoliver: does itwork when adding network manually?	11:33
julianoliver	Stskeeps: i have yet to check if wpa_supplicant is on board.	11:34
julianoliver	one moment	11:34
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julianoliver	looks like i'll need to install it.	11:34
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Stskeeps	julianoliver: network manually = in the control panel	11:35
Stskeeps	:P	11:35
julianoliver	ahah.. ;)	11:35
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doc\|suk\|dik	ohaodhn	11:37
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julianoliver	Stskeeps: it seems to associate and then immediately disassociate/deauthenticate. it's an absurdly long key.. will double check.	11:41
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odin_	does "*#06#" not work, for IMEI check ?	11:43
Stskeeps	control panel -> about rodct..	11:43
Stskeeps	product	11:43
odin_	ok but what about operater services and such ?	11:43
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Stskeeps	some work	11:44
mece	odin_, someone was whining that operator services didn't work.	11:47
mece	odin_, so I guess they don't	11:47
mece	odin_, all the operator services work with sms here afaik. Never used one of those #asdf whatnot thingies.	11:48
Stskeeps	my *500 works	11:48
Stskeeps	:P	11:48
mece	Stskeeps, what does that do?	11:48
Stskeeps	pay on the go servicess	11:49
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julianoliver	Stskeeps: no, it seems it authenticates fine and then deauthenticates. is N900/Maemo 5 known to work with WPA Version 1?	11:50
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Stskeeps	julianoliver: duno	11:50
julianoliver	oks	11:50
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doc\|suk\|dik	doc\|home sucks dick	11:52
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* julianoliver notes that it worked on a 3rd attempt.		11:53
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SpeedEvil	EDINBURGH, GB 30/11/2009 7:46 OUT FOR DELIVERY	12:01
SpeedEvil	:)	12:01
DangerMaus	yay	12:01
Stskeeps	"NO ANSWER AT DOOR"?	12:02
DangerMaus	haha	12:02
mece	lol	12:02
archebyte	tick tock	12:02
lcuk	"ahhh well, better take it home and see what goodies i have"	12:02
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lcuk	hope theres no preloaded photos of grufty delivery drivers in compromising situations	12:02
derf	My favorite was when I went to check the status of my package, and it said, "DELIVERED".	12:03
derf	And I'd been home all day, and it sure as gekk wasn't delivered to me.	12:03
derf	I'm checking the front stoop, looking around to see if any of the neighbors got it by mistake...	12:04
* SpeedEvil wonders if stoop is a derivation of step.		12:04
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derf	And then like 20 minutes later the UPS guy pulls up. "Yeah, I was just around the corner scanning packages."	12:04
DangerMaus	haha	12:04
SpeedEvil	Ah drivers.	12:04
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SpeedEvil	Then again, many are quite badly paid indeed and on ridiculous contracts.	12:05
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DangerMaus	least it didnt fall under the wheels	12:05
* RST38h lost his passport, airplane tickets, and visa this way once		12:06
RST38h	FedEx never even apologized	12:06
DangerMaus	wow	12:07
RST38h	Opened in inquiry, said "we cannot find it", end of story	12:07
DangerMaus	never had an issue with them but one pkg returned ascrtched in a plastic bag geuss it was on the pland that burned on the ground	12:07
DangerMaus	*scortched	12:08
DangerMaus	but i was the shipper and sent another rite off	12:08
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hrw	morning	12:26
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RST38h	hello hrw	12:29
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odin_	SpeedEvil, mine was shipped from NL by DPD	12:51
range	I'm all for UPS and FedEx doing a merger. And then call themselves FedUp. If you aren't reachable during business hours, those two are the worst to get "service" from.	12:52
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DangerMaus	lol i call ups for a late local pickup and just go into fedex at closing time and they pull it off the truck for me	12:53
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asidjazz	when i leave my n900 alone for a while and then try to use it i get a bunch of memory overload errors	12:55
Venomrush	what sort of apps do you have?	12:56
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lcuk	solution: dont leave it alone	12:56
Venomrush	lol	12:56
mece	ok, is it wrong of me to only have used the xterm on the N900 so far?	12:56
mece	Well actually I did use the app manager to install rootsh and openssh	12:56
mece	right i made a call to see if it worked. it did.	12:56
DocOozePuslhh	hahahah	12:56
DocOozePuslhh	wichser	12:57
DocOozePuslhh	gibs auf und geh nach hause	12:57
DocOozePuslhh	bald kriegste deeinen kugel im kopf	12:57
DocOozePuslhh	leider	12:57
DocOozePuslhh	regierungen	12:57
DocOozePuslhh	die tun son shit	12:57
mikhas	DocOozePuslhh, wrong channel. go somewhere else maybe	12:57
hrw	still no DDP news?	12:57
asidjazz	mece; you lack a computer	12:57
DocOozePuslhh	watch	12:58
DocOozePuslhh	shitheads	12:58
DocOozePuslhh	watch	12:58
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SpeedEvil	range: fortunately - in from 9-5	12:58
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mece	asidjazz, I have a windows machine here at work :/	12:58
asidjazz	lol @ DocScrutinizer	12:59
asidjazz	that was odd	12:59
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DangerMaus	mece, install Putty on the win machine? ssh to the n900	13:00
mece	can one access the notification api from shell?	13:00
mece	DangerMaus, that's what I did.	13:00
lcuk	Stskeeps, whos got @ on here?	13:00
DangerMaus	:)	13:00
mece	DangerMaus, I actually have two friends "over". We created a quick local chat program on the N900 so we're chatting on the N900.	13:01
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DangerMaus	have at yeah!	13:02
mece	DangerMaus, meaning they are logged in on the phone. not actually here. One of them is logged in on the phone from his N900.	13:02
DangerMaus	awsome	13:02
lcuk	andre__, whos op round here nowadays?	13:02
lcuk	thats awake	13:03
mece	DangerMaus, well it's very silly, but yeah. awesome.	13:03
DangerMaus	i cant wait to get mine	13:03
asidjazz	mece: im sure theres a ay	13:03
asidjazz	waY*	13:03
asidjazz	you dhvae to write a triger of some sort	13:03
andre__	lcuk, shrug	13:03
DangerMaus	mece, whats life wwithout silly fun?	13:04
mece	asidjazz, but can't you directly send a message through it? that would rock.	13:04
mece	DangerMaus, indeed. especially if it's while at work :D	13:04
DangerMaus	aofcourse	13:04
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DangerMaus	*-a	13:04
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asidjazz	you mean use it	13:05
asidjazz	yea fully	13:05
asidjazz	prolly easily documented in the sdk	13:05
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DangerMaus	ohwell off to hibernate for a bit..	13:06
mece	asidjazz, looking aws	13:06
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asidjazz	mece: leme know when ya find it	13:07
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mece	asidjazz, will do.	13:08
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qwerty12	Christmas present for those of you who like disassembling their phones: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ndmjylkj4wk/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_L1L2_v1_0_q12.rar	13:14
hrw	qwerty12: gracias	13:16
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_berto_	wow	13:17
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LuciusMare	ohai	13:17
_berto_	qwerty12: is that supposed to be public? :	13:17
ShadowJK	shush up and download it	13:17
qwerty12	_berto_: Nope =)	13:17
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qwerty12	Still looking for the L3&L4 manual; those of you who have it know where to find me	13:18
LuciusMare	aw,nobody from yesterday? :(	13:18
LuciusMare	yay	13:19
LuciusMare	timeless_mbp: o/	13:19
* kirma finds it interesting that N900 seems to start the gallery application spontanteously		13:19
kirma	done that at least three times already	13:20
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timeless_mbp	?	13:20
odin_	kirma, disable the control panel -> mind reader v3.4 (then it shouldn't keep opening the pr0n)	13:21
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hrw	_berto_: first page says "confidential"	13:23
kirma	timeless: relatively soon after turning the device on it just spontaneously has the photo gallery open with latest photo, and it typically occurs after a while of no usage at all...	13:23
hrw	_berto_: anyway nothing other then disassemle/assemble info inside	13:23
* hrw wants to know where serial/jtag are		13:23
odin_	clear your mind, clear you rmind	13:23
kirma	I've heard of "interesting" ghost usage on developer devices, like starting of music playback middle of the night for no apparent reason :)	13:24
ShadowJK	it was in L3&L4 for N810	13:24
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Lynoure	hmm, no luck unraring that.	13:26
julianoliver	kirma: alongside the FM receiver in the N900, Nokia devs saw to it that an EVP and ESP receivers were also in place. oddly enough i can't find the kernel interface to either.	13:28
range	Oh, unraring is no problem, the password the pdf wants to have might be one if you aren't persistent.	13:28
Lynoure	range: it was to me.	13:28
Lynoure	range: unrar -e filename resulted just in unrar help...	13:29
ali1234	unrar x	13:29
julianoliver	Lynoure: unrar e fileName	13:29
Lynoure	maybe I'm not reading the man page right :/	13:29
Lynoure	oh, not -e but e	13:29
Lynoure	weird.	13:29
julianoliver	Lynoure: yes, it's stupid.	13:29
range	Yeah, it's rar. So it is weird per se.	13:29
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julianoliver	the whole history of 'urar' is charted with being consciously difficult.	13:30
julianoliver	s/urar/unrar	13:30
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julianoliver	what's a reccommended SIP service in Europe these days?	13:35
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Lynoure	Seems despite doing an install of maemo5 sdk as instructed, and installing then esbox, I'm still missing hildonmm.h and gtkmm.h Any idea what I need to install and where to get the includes working? (cannot test right now, different laptop)	13:37
julianoliver	Lynoure: apt-cache search gtkmm dev; apt-cache search hildonmm dev	13:37
Lynoure	julianoliver: that is, everything that comes out as the result?	13:38
Lynoure	julianoliver: some things were explicitely mentioned and I installed them into the scratchbox, but maybe not all... Will check on it after work.	13:39
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ccooke	Morning, all	13:40
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julianoliver	Lynoure: i'm on my work machine (Debian Lenny). you're probably after: libgtkmm-dev	13:41
julianoliver	not sure with hildonmm - the general rule is "ends with -dev"	13:41
julianoliver	a non-versioned-packagename always represents the latest version.	13:42
Lynoure	julianoliver: they get installed into the scratchbox or to the host itself? (I guess I'm a tad confused)	13:43
Stskeeps	lcuk: GeneralAntilles and such	13:44
Lynoure	when it doubt, "both" I guess and then I'll let debfoster to sort it out later :)	13:46
julianoliver	Lynoure: if you're building against them in scratchbox, then scratchbox is where you want them.	13:46
Lynoure	julianoliver: yup. Thanks. I cannot wait to test whether I'll now get my helloworld	13:46
* Lynoure feels like a 5 year old geek on Christmas Eve.		13:47
julianoliver	yeah it's great stuff, once you get it up and working.	13:47
Lynoure	Unfortunately still daytime job... for another 4.5 days.	13:47
Lynoure	Damn thing keeps messing with my flow =)	13:48
mece	asidjazz, I guess one should just make a simple program that implements libosso and sends argument as string to libosso-osso_system_note_infoprint()	13:48
suihkulokki	Lynoure: which instructions are you following that need gtkmm/hildonmm ?	13:48
julianoliver	Lynoure: tell me about it. i have a heap of X86 development to do. since i was given this phone i've been a tad distracted..	13:48
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Lynoure	suihkulokki: that video thingy... http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Get_started_with_Maemo_5/	13:50
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Lynoure	suihkulokki: other recommendations of course also welcome, eventually it will most like be qt that I want to use.	13:51
qwerty12	mece: What type of notification? There's two (at least): http://twitpic.com/k8e51 and http://twitpic.com/k8eeu	13:51
mece	./qwerty12, well those are the same thing afaik	13:53
mece	lol	13:53
mece	./ was not intentional :D	13:53
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PolarFox	Can't get esbox to start :(	13:54
Lynoure	PolarFox: 9.10 ubuntu?	13:54
PolarFox	Yep :)	13:54
Lynoure	PolarFox: starting it with the esbox.sh instead of just esbox?	13:54
PolarFox	Tried esbox.sh but no luck..	13:54
Lynoure	PolarFox: oh, then no instant fix from me, sorry.	13:54
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PolarFox	Maybe I should try that "release" version instead of integration :)	13:55
qwerty12	mece: Hehe, I'd be scared if you had a file called "qwerty12" in $PWD. :P No, one is just a HildonBanner and the other one is achieved with hildon-notify; the e-mail and SMS app use the HildonNotify one	13:55
qwerty12	tigert: Thanks for the plug =)	13:55
Lynoure	PolarFox: that's the one I played with yesterday. Dunno if it makes a difference or if the cause is something else	13:56
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* VDVsx yawns		14:00
zaheerm	VDVsx, i feel the same :(	14:01
asidjazz	mece: yup	14:01
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mece	qwerty12, does the hildon-notify implement libosso System notification or vice versa. or neither?	14:10
mece	osso_system_note_dialog is the one that requires a click, and the osso_system_note_infoprint is the banner one.	14:11
mece	afaik	14:11
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mece	aaw crap. sdk installer crashed.	14:17
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bnilsen	Anyone else having problems with extras-devel?	14:21
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* RST38h moos at VDVsx		14:22
timeless_mbp	bnilsen: regularly	14:22
* VDVsx moos back :)		14:22
bnilsen	timeless_mbp: I get failed to fetch bla bla bla	14:23
bnilsen	timeless_mbp: ...but magically enough.. it just happened to work now! weird	14:24
timeless_mbp	the repositories are regularly corrupting/fixing themselves	14:24
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timeless_mbp	patience is a virtue	14:24
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timeless_mbp	-- that and persistence	14:24
lardman	morning chaps	14:24
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akshay	Hi, I have hosted a project at garage.maemo.org. Now I want to create a project homepage. How do I do that?	14:29
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timeless_mbp	lardman: so, i made a clock db	14:30
timeless_mbp	but it doesn't seem like that db is used directly	14:30
timeless_mbp	at least when someone else tested it, it didn't fix things	14:31
qwerty12	mece: Never let it be said that I'm not anal-retentive: http://qwerty12.qole.org/Screenshot-20091130-123004.png & http://qwerty12.qole.org/Screenshot-20091130-123014.png	14:32
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lardman	timeless_mbp: strange	14:32
lardman	qwerty12: never	14:33
mikhas	akshay, easiest way? create a wiki page @ wiki.maemo.org	14:33
mikhas	then link to it	14:33
qwerty12	lardman: grin	14:33
lardman	akshay: create a www directory in svn	14:33
lardman	iirc	14:33
mece	qwerty12, thanks!	14:34
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akshay	lardman: I am using GIT	14:34
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mikhas	then you might want to use gitorious anyway =)	14:34
lardman	akshay: ah, well the same may apply, but I don't know in that case, sorry	14:34
mece	qwerty12, also, I never denied your anal-retentiveness	14:34
mikhas	many maemo projects are already tehre	14:34
qwerty12	mece: Hehe	14:34
akshay	so is it possible using GIT also? I have no experience with versioning systems	14:35
mece	qwerty12, I like the hildon_note_new_information() one. Are they all the kind that goes away automagically after a while? (except the one in the separate picture)	14:36
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qwerty12	mece: hildon_note_new_information requires you to tap outside it to dismiss it	14:37
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DocScrutinizer	asidjazz: huh??	14:38
lardman	~lart overly intrusive virus scanners	14:39
* infobot does a little 'dpkg -P overly intrusive virus scanners' action		14:39
lardman	"A program is behaving suspiciously on your computer" blah, well tell me what the hell it's doing!	14:40
lardman	rubbish	14:40
Lynoure	hee.	14:40
LuciusMare	haha	14:41
akshay	mikhas: I have registered on gitorious. How will it help me to create a homepage on garage.maemo ?	14:41
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LuciusMare	Hm	14:42
LuciusMare	Is it possible to make a 'nokia connector>female usb'	14:42
LuciusMare	reduction which would act as usb master?	14:43
lardman	which device?	14:43
lardman	probably easiest to get a full size gender changer and force host mode if you're talking about the N810	14:44
lardman	that's what I do	14:44
wazd	I'm kinda back again :)	14:44
* qwerty12 says "hi" to a half-wazd		14:45
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wazd	qwerty12: o/	14:45
qwerty12	lardman: Look at what happens when you talk?	14:45
* RST38h takes "get a full size gender changer and force host mode" out of the context		14:46
lardman	did wazd half vanish?	14:46
RST38h	ehlo wazd	14:46
lardman	RST38h: ;)	14:46
hashier	does anyone know, if the music player sends a signal (eg. via dbus) which track it is currently playing?	14:46
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Venomrush	qwerty12 have you consider changing your name to azerty12?	14:46
RST38h	lardman: Hey, seen Tomaszd's gst stuff? =)	14:46
qwerty12	Venomrush: But I'm not French!	14:47
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wazd	qwerty12: dvorak95 :D	14:47
Venomrush	or even qwertz12	14:47
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Venomrush	lol	14:47
wazd	RST38h: heya	14:47
LuciusMare	n900	14:47
LuciusMare	my connection crashed,sry	14:47
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LuciusMare	So,is it possible?	14:48
wazd	fresh vista, mmm	14:48
Venomrush	anyone got hold of service manual level 1 to 4 for the n900 yet?	14:48
RST38h	Yea	14:48
Venomrush	share pls?	14:48
qwerty12	Venomrush: I posted a link, a sec	14:48
lardman	RST38h: not sure	14:48
qwerty12	Venomrush: [11:14] <qwerty12> Christmas present for those of you who like disassembling their phones: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ndmjylkj4wk/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manual_L1L2_v1_0_q12.rar	14:48
RST38h	On page #45, that service manual level 1 says "If the caller is Venomrush, put him on hold indefinitely."	14:49
Venomrush	cheers qwerty12	14:49
asidjazz	loll	14:49
ShadowJK	not to l4 though?	14:49
Venomrush	that's only level 1+2	14:49
LuciusMare	what is that for,actually?	14:49
Venomrush	fixing your phone	14:49
qwerty12	The "1" confused me	14:49
Venomrush	lol	14:49
qwerty12	>.<	14:49
DocOozePuslhh	but shutting down a donkey-dick sucking american	14:49
DocOozePuslhh	is a nice thing	14:49
qwerty12	I have the flu; leave me alone!	14:49
* Stskeeps ponders locating a freenode staffer		14:50
RST38h	please, SHARE!	14:50
lcuk	where do i go to get someone banned	14:50
lcuk	i agree Stskeeps	14:50
Venomrush	qwerty12	14:50
Venomrush	have you got level 3 + 4	14:50
ShadowJK	i just applied a durasec protector... didn't succeed the first time, second time ended up with shitload od bubbles..	14:50
qwerty12	No, sorry	14:50
Venomrush	that's alright, thanks	14:50
qwerty12	DocOozePuslhh: pupnik, I like you, but if you're gonna troll, at least have the sense to do it behind a proxy	14:51
lardman	qwerty12: got the circuit diagrams anywhere?	14:51
qwerty12	No, schematics are nowhere to be found on the Internet	14:52
lardman	ah well	14:52
Venomrush	where did u find 1+2?	14:52
lardman	all in good time I'm sure	14:52
RST38h	Meanwhile: http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20091130PD205.html	14:52
Venomrush	did u pay for it? lol	14:52
Venomrush	i found 3+4 but u need to pay to get it	14:52
qwerty12	Venomrush: In a misnamed torrent =)	14:52
RST38h	Then pay	14:52
Stskeeps	RST38h: no surprises	14:52
SpeedEvil	Ummm....	14:52
lardman	qwerty12 was expecting pron	14:53
LuciusMare	Hey waves	14:53
SpeedEvil	WTF.	14:53
RST38h	Sts: Absolutely	14:53
LuciusMare	What is it actually?	14:53
LuciusMare	Manual level 1,2...?	14:53
SpeedEvil	The nokia transaction for my phone has dissapeared from my bank account.	14:53
asidjazz	lolll	14:53
Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: but you got the n900 still?	14:53
SpeedEvil	However - UPS still says it's out for delivery	14:53
lardman	RST38h: what gst stuff am I looking for?	14:53
SpeedEvil	And the shop still says 'shipped'	14:53
w00t	SpeedEvil: hahaha.	14:53
Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: if you get it and you don't get charged, you owe beers	14:54
Stskeeps	:P	14:54
DocOozePuslhh	qwerty12: murder is murder	14:54
asidjazz	DocOozePuslhh: what are you german? wtf are you doing in here	14:54
DocOozePuslhh	come here and watch it	14:54
DocOozePuslhh	i will kill some little animals in front of your face	14:54
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: Indeed - I regret that that is probably unlikely.	14:54
LuciusMare	hello?	14:55
Venomrush	i think the n900 will last me at least 2 years before i need to change phone	14:55
Venomrush	although, next June, new iphone coming out might have slideout keyboard	14:55
Venomrush	lol	14:55
LuciusMare	...	14:55
LuciusMare	Changing n900 for hw kb iphone?	14:56
asidjazz	lol wat Venomrush	14:56
w00t	haha.	14:56
Venomrush	and finally theyll put 5meg camera in it...	14:56
asidjazz	no way apple will put a kb on that thing	14:56
PolarFox	I'm still trying to figure out how to setup this SDK & Eclipse :)	14:56
asidjazz	it has to look like edible candy	14:56
asidjazz	kb	14:56
RST38h	lardman: Tomaszd compiled MKV, MPEG2 TS, and FLV support for N900, as gst plugins	14:56
asidjazz	kb's are not edible	14:56
RST38h	lardman: Can be found in Extras-Testing	14:56
LuciusMare	Its like changing from hummer to a lowrider	14:56
SpeedEvil	asidjazz: naah - new iphone will have full-size fold-out ASR-33 keyboard.	14:57
lardman	RST38h: ah right, yes I remember now, good stuff	14:57
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PolarFox	I'm still waiting for that "Minority Report" interface for phones..	14:57
LuciusMare	LOL	14:57
LuciusMare	but it would be cool,actually	14:57
glass_	too much movement of hands	14:58
DocOozePuslhh	i want pure idiocy on n900 screen when user < 16 years old detected	14:58
DocOozePuslhh	random comix	14:58
tigert	qwerty12: :)	14:58
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Venomrush	what happen if we post service manual on TMO?	14:58
Venomrush	will we get raped?	14:58
mece	PolarFox, the minority report thing looked arduous. I want brainwave controlled stuff.	14:58
asidjazz	SpeedEvil: how do you know??	14:59
mece	Venomrush, sounds like a bad idea...	14:59
lardman	Venomrush: I will probably have to remove it	14:59
DocOozePuslhh	we are at the interface between the nuclear bomb of global tyranny, or not, qwerty12	14:59
qwerty12	Venomrush: Talk is generally no-warez	14:59
DocOozePuslhh	where	14:59
asidjazz	oh lol asr-33	14:59
lardman	Venomrush: As it is probaby illegal	14:59
DocOozePuslhh	some	14:59
DocOozePuslhh	over the rainbow	14:59
SpeedEvil	Venomrush: buttorrent!	14:59
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* SpeedEvil accepts all DCCs.		14:59
DocOozePuslhh	way up high	14:59
DocOozePuslhh	there's a land	14:59
DocOozePuslhh	that i heard of	14:59
asidjazz	DocOozePuslhh: are u high?	14:59
DocOozePuslhh	once in a lullaby	14:59
Stskeeps	DocOozePuslhh: do us all a favour and take your medication.	14:59
qwerty12	SpeedEvil: I gave the link twice in this channel (L1&L2)	14:59
PolarFox	mece: You would have to have some serious filtering... I wouldn't let my brain control anything without some filtering..	14:59
DocOozePuslhh	no i am ready to piss off some ppl	15:00
DocOozePuslhh	this is my day, Stskeeps	15:00
DocOozePuslhh	lets start with pulse	15:00
DocOozePuslhh	and shitcan that pos	15:00
DocOozePuslhh	i'm tired of bad shit	15:00
Venomrush	speedevil: lol	15:00
DocOozePuslhh	just tired	15:00
LuciusMare	could anyone please tell me what are the levels of manuals?	15:01
Venomrush	level 1 + 2 are really basic	15:01
Venomrush	with specs	15:01
Venomrush	3 + 4 = dismantle the phone	15:01
* SpeedEvil wants level 9!		15:01
SpeedEvil	:)	15:01
PolarFox	All I get in eclipse is "no build targets selected." ..	15:01
asidjazz	level up!	15:02
LuciusMare	SpeedEvil: also went on my mind	15:02
lardman	well that manual was dissasemble the phone.....	15:02
asidjazz	DocOozePuslhh: if ur lookin to piss ppl off irc aint the place	15:02
LuciusMare	SpeedEvil: if 3-4 is dismantling,oh boy,what is 9?	15:02
lardman	are the l3 and 4 not diagrams of the chip connections?	15:02
SpeedEvil	I would like a complete dump of all chip firmware, and circuit diagrams.	15:02
LuciusMare	how many levels can i achieve in this maemo rpg?	15:02
* RST38h is at the edge of starting to /ignore		15:02
Venomrush	LuciusMare: download N97 Service Manual Level 1 & 2 - 3 & 4, Data Sheet & Schematics here http://www.nokiausers.net/forum/nokia-n97/28632-n97-service-manual-level-1-2-3-4-data-sheet-schematics.html then you can tell the differences between level 1+2 and 3+4 + schematics	15:03
SpeedEvil	But that seems unlikely.	15:03
julianoliver	the /home/dtc.. DTC == Device Tree Compiler?	15:03
LuciusMare	so there are only 4 levels?	15:03
lcuk	pupnik you fucking lost it. you are not welcome in any of my chans again.	15:03
lardman	SpeedEvil: circult diagrams will come eventually, no firmware dump without your doing it yourself I imagine	15:03
Venomrush	4 is the highest i believe	15:03
Venomrush	i think after that is schematics	15:03
RST38h	Venomrush: Could you please be ...mmm... less talkative, more legal, and more on the topic?	15:03
PolarFox	I got the esbox-eclipse running... but I can't get that SDK working.. has anyone done this with 64bit ubuntu linux system? :)	15:03
suihkulokki	PolarFox: mail to the esbox mailinglist	15:03
PolarFox	Can this be done :D	15:04
Venomrush	sorry, i'll be more legal	15:04
Venomrush	on Discussion forum on Nokia site	15:04
Venomrush	censored so much	15:04
Venomrush	theyll delete your post even without telling ya	15:04
lcuk	Stskeeps, is it just case of idling in freenode until someone gives voice or is there a different way to get him seen to	15:04
LuciusMare	hm,so in these is the information about system - including the things about how the system works internally?	15:04
SpeedEvil	lcuk: you can message an op	15:04
LuciusMare	And what?that is illegal?	15:04
Venomrush	that or randomly move your post elsewhere	15:04
RST38h	Ok. I got the point.	15:05
DocOozePuslhh	und ich hab dich gar nicht gefickt	15:05
SpeedEvil	lcuk: also IIRC you can talk in channels - and ops only can see your messages.	15:05
Venomrush	where nobody can find it	15:05
lcuk	<<< not irc dude	15:05
Stskeeps	lcuk: poking some people to get him ut ..	15:05
lcuk	ta	15:05
Stskeeps	out, that is	15:05
tigert	hmm	15:05
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RST38h	Ufffff	15:05
tigert	anyone using the fuse + sshfs in n900?	15:05
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tigert	should I run this as root or not?	15:05
tigert	seems like /dev/fuse is only writable by root, and when I chown it, it gets reset on reboot I thin	15:06
Venomrush	ouch, my n900 refuses to unlock	15:06
LuciusMare	And what?that is illegal?	15:06
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Venomrush	just got an incoming text, trying to unlock it to read, after unlock, it got to Desktop and locks itself up again	15:06
Venomrush	wtf	15:06
suihkulokki	tigert: it should work as user, then whoever has packaged it n900 should be notified to fix it	15:07
* ShadowJK wonders if the camera issue is about priority..		15:07
* achipa sets a personal record, 8h40m for an autobuilder run		15:07
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suihkulokki	PolarFox: https://garage.maemo.org/mail/?group_id=192	15:07
tigert	failed to open /dev/fuse: Permission denied	15:07
Khertan	achipa: ouch	15:07
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tigert	suihkulokki: wondering should /dev/fuse be writable by me or am I just doing something wrong?	15:08
qwerty12	achipa: Weak! Upload WebKit and you'll know the true meaning of pain :p	15:08
ShadowJK	on n810 mplayer/mencoder would have the kernel buffer large amounts of video.. resulting in it being capable of recording 20 secs or so of perfectly smooth video	15:08
tigert	I am not very familiar with sshfs / fuse	15:08
qwerty12	(Until you get beaten by Qt...)	15:08
ShadowJK	(and it took ages)	15:08
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suihkulokki	tigert: on desktop it is usually writable for group fuse and users are then added to fuse group	15:08
tigert	yeah	15:08
lardman	qwerty12: is Qt that bad....?	15:09
suihkulokki	tigert: for n900 that is not neccessary since there is only one user. it should just be setup to user:users on boot	15:09
DocOozePuslhh	little illegal girl sucking doc\|	15:09
achipa	qwerty12: that was with some stuff (webkit incl) disabled - tonight, it will be the full thing, 12h+ expcted :)	15:09
DocOozePuslhh	little illegal girl sucking doc\|	15:09
DocOozePuslhh	little illegal girl sucking doc\|	15:09
qwerty12	achipa: :O	15:09
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tigert	For this to work the mountpoint must be owned by the user.	15:09
tigert	hmm	15:09
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suihkulokki	tigert: where did you find the sshfs package?	15:10
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LuciusMare	LEAVING SPREE	15:11
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LuciusMare	:(	15:11
LuciusMare	You ruined my punchline	15:11
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tigert	suihkulokki: apt-get	15:12
tigert	I guess in extras-devel?	15:12
tigert	or where, dunno	15:12
Shapeshifter	the "dealbreaker" threads get more and more absurd	15:12
tigert	how can I tell with apt where something is?	15:13
Shapeshifter	"Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?"	15:13
glass_	lack of pirated sw is only because lack of commercial sw	15:13
glass_	..to pirate	15:13
qwerty12	glass_: Exactly =)	15:14
tigert	wtf	15:14
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lardman	just package up xchat and say it's pirated ;)	15:14
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lorelei^	nah, some people are so inclined to pirate sw that they will also pirate opensource/free software :)	15:14
glass_	lorelei^: i wrote a freeware asteroids clone for s60 v1... found it on warez-irc bots later	15:15
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lardman	~curse either VB or MATLAB for not wanting to talk to one another	15:15
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, either VB or MATLAB for not wanting to talk to one another !	15:15
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tigert	lorelei^: there used to be several versions of Gimp sold as packaged versions	15:15
tigert	in a way this is ok and allowed, but they tried to hide the fact gimp was also free	15:16
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tigert	so it was like $39,90 super deal photoshop killer!	15:16
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tigert	suihkulokki: looks like extras-devel has it	15:16
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tigert	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/s/sshfs-fuse/	15:17
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lorelei^	tigert: yes, that's true	15:17
lorelei^	but there it's not really pirating opens ource sw...more like taking advantage of the license...	15:18
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tigert	yeah	15:18
tigert	true, like I said	15:18
Shapeshifter	it might actually be that when people pay something for software they're more inclined to actually learn it and feel good about using it, and defend it against others	15:18
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Stskeeps	lorelei^: technically you can pirate open source software by only providing binaries or remove copyright headers :P	15:18
Shapeshifter	like, say they paid 40 bucks for gimp, that means they've spent money on it, which motivates them to not let that money go to waste	15:19
Shapeshifter	like, "if it's free, it's probably rubbish"	15:19
SpeedEvil	Also - if there is a decent non-free tutorial, support, or other stuff.	15:19
Shapeshifter	which no doubt some people believe	15:19
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LuciusMare	Which is stupid	15:20
LuciusMare	To defend a piece of software just because you cant take it back	15:20
wazd_	wow, I have 13.7 Gb of something on desktop :)	15:21
LuciusMare	brb,going to get something to eat	15:21
LuciusMare	i mean,get some tea	15:21
julianoliver	Shapeshifter: yes, this is a fair theory. people will tend to invest time in software relative to the cost of the software itself.	15:21
LuciusMare	wazd_: pron?	15:21
qwerty12	wazd_: Wow, where did you find a torrent with so much porn?	15:21
LuciusMare	qwerty12: his personal fap archive	15:21
julianoliver	Shapeshifter: it's a fundament of the logic of consumption in a capital economy.	15:21
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glass_	siterip pron torrents can be much bigger	15:21
wazd_	pron on the desktop, are you mad? :D	15:22
qwerty12	LuciusMare: I don't want to know...	15:22
glass_	possibly	15:22
lardman	qwerty12: because you already do? ;)	15:23
wazd_	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuYDSa4BRaw	15:23
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wazd_	oh my, that's awesome :)	15:23
julianoliver	Shapeshifter: anyway, the GIMP is not a good case: there is so much troubling this application before the value of free even comes into play.	15:23
qwerty12	lardman: I leant from the master nudge nudge lardman	15:23
lardman	heh	15:23
mece1	garage seems a tad "stressed"...	15:24
lardman	all the maemo.org servers still seem to be	15:24
* lardman kicks himself for forgetting to accept the connection		15:26
lardman	finally, it works, praise be to the FSM!	15:28
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qwerty12	Yoou called, laardman?	15:28
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lardman	spaghetti in human form, qwerty12	15:29
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* LuciusMare turns of that flood ping he had set		15:29
LuciusMare	just...tried something...	15:30
LuciusMare	kidding of course	15:32
LuciusMare	hasnt been something released?	15:32
LuciusMare	or something that would give a lot of users reason to visit maemo.org?	15:32
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Stskeeps	well, the n900 hapened	15:32
zaheerm	how do update a dep of something in extras, does the normal promotion rules apply?	15:32
* zaheerm needs to push something urgent		15:33
* timeless_mbp frowns		15:33
timeless_mbp	so, i don't get this clock thing	15:33
timeless_mbp	afaict cityinfo really does use this clock db	15:33
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timeless_mbp	hrm	15:41
timeless_mbp	ok, so the database is definitely kinda used	15:41
timeless_mbp	i can move the timezone for seychelles from +11 to +$	15:41
timeless_mbp	+4	15:41
tigert	woot	15:41
tigert	running Dropbox via hack in N900 :)	15:41
tigert	dropbox runs in my server now, and then I access it with sshfs	15:42
tigert	neato	15:42
timeless_mbp	tigert: you're using fiFI right?	15:42
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tigert	say again?	15:42
timeless_mbp	language/region	15:42
qwerty12	Finnish locale	15:42
tigert	enFI	15:42
tigert	english lang, finnish region	15:42
tigert	less context switching :)	15:43
timeless_mbp	you local atm?	15:43
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* timeless_mbp sighs		15:45
timeless_mbp	this code is ....	15:45
Stskeeps	having fun with libcityinfo?	15:45
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: have you read it?	15:46
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* timeless_mbp is vaguely trying to understand why it has two distinct coordinate spaces		15:46
SpeedEvil	Woo! Free n900.	15:47
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: for traveling to bcn?	15:47
SpeedEvil	(I suspect they will still actually want money)	15:47
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SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: no - they've somehow cancelled the earlier transaction with my bank	15:47
qwerty12	SpeedEvil: They want blood	15:47
timeless_mbp	http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libcityinfo/cityinfo_8h.html#fca873e9e8b91ac84cc3b010316e3497	15:47
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: hypothetically, that function is garbage	15:48
timeless_mbp	i mean, it will kill you if you happen to run out of file handles	15:48
timeless_mbp	which is sad, given that historically during fremantle development, there was a rather extended period of time when we were short on file handles..	15:49
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: libcityinfo would be better off being a sqlite database..	15:49
* timeless_mbp shrugs		15:49
timeless_mbp	i don't mind the flat file	15:49
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: and the fact it's closed source and that the api looks embarassing..	15:49
timeless_mbp	it'd be better if the city names were not stored as localizblae strings	15:49
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: the impl is worse than the api :)	15:49
Stskeeps	and bugs.. :P	15:49
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: i can only imagine	15:49
timeless_mbp	can't you choose not to imagine?	15:50
* timeless_mbp baits Stskeeps		15:50
timeless_mbp	you know you want to see my horror ;-)	15:50
julianoliver	speaking of Horror, 'Paranormal Activity' was really awful and silly.	15:51
Stskeeps	i have a headache already and i don't feel like crying over bad code :P	15:51
w00t	bad code is fun	15:51
* timeless_mbp sighs		15:52
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: as a starting point	15:52
timeless_mbp	the fact that the api doesn't let you convert from lat-lng to x-y is um...	15:52
timeless_mbp	...	15:52
timeless_mbp	...	15:52
w00t	dotty?	15:52
* w00t ducks		15:52
timeless_mbp	that's one way to describe it :)	15:52
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: i am more worried the API deals with methods related to a certaing png representation of the earth	15:52
timeless_mbp	oh really?	15:52
timeless_mbp	what could possibly have given you that impression? :)	15:53
w00t	..	15:53
timeless_mbp	nah, don't worry. it's a certainty :)	15:53
Stskeeps	'Get x position of the city on the map.	15:53
Stskeeps	http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libcityinfo/cityinfo_8c.html	15:53
* timeless_mbp decides to try to move winnipeg north		15:53
ShadowJK	this is closed source because it'd be too embarassing, right?	15:53
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: i sure hope that's the justification	15:54
timeless_mbp	i happen to like how we have a city named harford	15:54
timeless_mbp	because the extra mandatory t was too expensive...	15:54
timeless_mbp	ok, so... i'm open to suggestions	15:54
timeless_mbp	anyone want to guess how i should change the coords of winnipeg to move it north? :)	15:55
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: i'm thinking of motivating someone to write a open implementation of libcityinfo	15:55
timeless_mbp	one that doesn't suck?	15:55
timeless_mbp	with the missing api functions too?	15:55
ShadowJK	Just find some python guy and he'll make it extract city locations from wikipedia ;-)	15:55
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Stskeeps	the issue is however if API documentation is non-open or not	15:56
Stskeeps	:P	15:56
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: 30EUR via paypal to the person who does it	15:56
timeless_mbp	(seriously, ask around, i'm good for it)	15:56
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: i don't doubt it	15:56
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Stskeeps	position on the map. ) positions on the map are in relative coordinates (0.0 - most left/top to 1.0 most right/bottom) and are synchronized with Clock's world map image.	15:57
timeless_mbp	ok, so what, i should open the map image in an image editor to get its dimensions	15:57
lardman	that's bad, would be far better to have the map itself do the conversion	15:57
timeless_mbp	and then multiply the coords by the dimensions to get rough pixels?	15:57
lardman	though at least the lat lon are also contained in there	15:57
timeless_mbp	lardman: oh really?	15:57
timeless_mbp	you mean have a reasonably sane design?	15:57
timeless_mbp	why would that be good?	15:58
* lbt_ imagines the map image is 1:1 at 96dpi		15:58
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lardman	well as it is there's random useless data in there, useless for anyone else who wants to use the db	15:59
lardman	'db'	15:59
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timeless_mbp	lardman: sorry, please note that i'm dripping with sarcasm	15:59
lardman	:)	16:00
timeless_mbp	to say this was designed poorly is such an understatement	16:00
lardman	sorry, not feeling too hot, missed the sacrasm bit	16:00
timeless_mbp	the spelling is also embarrassing	16:01
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: please save me some effort, where's the map?	16:01
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: i think in osso-icons or the theme	16:02
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* timeless_mbp finds the map filename		16:03
timeless_mbp	it's a jpg not a png	16:03
qwerty12_N900	Hiya, fiferboy, long time no see! How's fiferbaby 2.0?	16:04
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Damnshock	hi everybody	16:07
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PolarFox	64bit systems don't go well with maemo development. /me is ready to kill someone :)	16:08
ccooke	PolarFox: VMs	16:08
Venomrush	Vagalume: Last.fm client for Gnome and Maemo	16:08
Venomrush	apparently going to be out soon	16:09
ccooke	you can run a 32-bit VM on a 64-bit system	16:09
PolarFox	Ok.. I'll install ubuntu on virtualbox and try that one :)	16:09
Veggen	Also possible to get it to work with a 32bit chroot.	16:10
ccooke	depending on the dev work you need, there are VMs of the SDK around, too	16:10
Veggen	I keep a 32bit chroot around for all the problem-applications around there.	16:10
Veggen	but VM is probably easier.	16:11
Veggen	...chroot is lighter on the machine of you have an old machine (and/or one without virtualization features in the processor)	16:11
PolarFox	and I can move VM images around with me.	16:11
hrw	PolarFox: grab official maemosdk vm image	16:12
PolarFox	hrw: Isn't it HUGE? :)	16:12
ccooke	Hell, you can stick the VM image onto the n[89][01]0 and mount it from there ;-)	16:12
achipa	city lat lon ? if you just need that, http://geolite.maxmind.com/download/worldcities/	16:12
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Khertan	hrw: the problem isn't storing ... but retriving it ... i've tryed 25 times ... each times checksum failed	16:17
Khertan	and i ve tryed 5 times at works with a pretty good and stable network connection	16:17
Khertan	if only it will be available by torrent	16:18
hrw	PolarFox: -rw-r--r-- 1 hrw hrw 9,8G 11-24 13:55 maemosdk_desktop_intrepid-10-08.vmdk	16:18
* Khertan is discovering libre.fm		16:18
hrw	Khertan: I fetched it from home on first try	16:18
Khertan	grrrr	16:18
Khertan	but it s depends on akaima "!#~#{ cache server	16:19
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles		16:19
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: +o Stskeeps		16:19
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles		16:19
GeneralAntilles	Deputized.	16:19
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w00t	./` I shot the sheriff.. ./`	16:19
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achipa	./`... but I did not compile the dependencies... ./`	16:28
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Ford_Prefect	rotfl!	16:29
VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, ping	16:29
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: Hiya	16:29
GeneralAntilles	I'm in favor of moderators editing messages of people who recommend Red Pill.	16:30
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GeneralAntilles	That, or anybody who does and causes somebody else to throw their device into a boot loop has to buy them a new one.	16:30
VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, is transmission ready for extras ? got promote by mistake in a test :)	16:30
GeneralAntilles	Venomrush, please don't recommend Red Pill in the future. :)	16:30
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: You promoted it?!	16:31
mikhas	recommend the blue pill instead?	16:31
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zaheerm	VDVsx, it will be removed once a 30 second video of how to download a pirated nintendo rom from bittorrent happens	16:31
VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, not me, I don't have permissions for that	16:31
Khertan	GeneralAntilles: too late ... already many blogs talk about it	16:31
VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, should it be removed ? it's your call :P	16:32
Khertan	zaheerm: lol	16:32
GeneralAntilles	Khertan, idiocy.	16:32
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: Ah, I'm deferring promoting... It has its problems, still	16:32
Khertan	GeneralAntilles: yep what i said in comment	16:32
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: Yes, please	16:32
VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, thanks	16:32
Khertan	did you want a proxy for faking ratio torrent ? :)	16:33
qwerty12_N900	evilKhertan: I like how you think =)	16:33
GAN900	Khertan, can we get a list of the blogs so we can inform them of why that's such a terrible idea?	16:34
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timeless_mbp	victory	16:36
Khertan	GeneralAntilles: http://www.maemofrance.fr/,	16:36
timeless_mbp	Winnipeg has moved to roughly... winniepg	16:36
timeless_mbp	s/epg/peg/	16:36
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: Winnipeg has moved to roughly... winnipeg	16:36
Khertan	http://www.themaemo.com/	16:36
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range	facepalm	16:37
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Shapeshifter	"2g" is edge, right?	16:38
qwerty12_N900	The plan is to get it removed in Maemo 6, right? If so, I wonder how all these bloggers will feel like... OMG I CANT BLOG ABOUT UBER MAEMO 6 HACK	16:38
VDVsx	zaheerm, zoutube will be removed as too, once a 30 seconds video showing zoutube playing another 30 seconds video of a nintendo game in a n900 happens :D	16:38
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N900: i doubt even HAM will exist in m6	16:38
zaheerm	VDVsx, awesome idea :)	16:39
qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps: Oh, wow, miracles do happpen	16:39
qwerty12_N900	-p	16:39
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N900: probably replaced by Ovi Megastore or something..	16:39
Stskeeps	:P	16:39
VDVsx	megastore, lol	16:39
timeless_mbp	ok, moving Guam, USA to somewhere near alaska protects alaska from the evil canadian invaders :)	16:39
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qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps: Heh, wouldn't put it past them...	16:39
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, only way users can get to Extras is through an Ovi proxy that requires users to mail in a signed warranty waiver? ;)	16:42
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: i'm starting to be more and more for a non-ovi app store	16:42
Stskeeps	should be trivial to implement	16:43
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Venomrush	has anyone got the "Operation temporarilly disabled due to low memory" error before?	16:43
GeneralAntilles	Ovi is a mess	16:43
Venomrush	i wasn't doing anything	16:43
Venomrush	device was locked	16:43
GeneralAntilles	I can't believe it got billed over h-a-m in the menu.	16:43
ShadowJK	Shapeshifter: I think it says 2.5g on n900 in edge	16:43
qwerty12_N900	"I declare allegiance to the Ovi Store..."	16:43
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Venomrush	had a webpage and an email opened	16:43
viq	http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/11/30/0359216/Augmented-Reality-and-Privacy	16:43
GeneralAntilles	Venomrush, probably shouldn't be playing with Red Pill.	16:43
Venomrush	i wasn't playing with Red Pill	16:44
* bilboed-pi wouldn't mind finding again the people interested in writing a video editor		16:44
Venomrush	i don't even have devel repo	16:44
archebyte	Venomrush: any new widget installed?	16:44
Venomrush	or installed anything	16:44
Venomrush	nope	16:44
Venomrush	i think there's a memory leak somewhere	16:44
zaheerm	bilboed-pi, dmj726 wanted to	16:44
GeneralAntilles	What does htop say?	16:46
Venomrush	with the main applications or the OS itself	16:46
bilboed-pi	zaheerm, right, but he's not online	16:46
archebyte	the new systeminforwidget will eat memory till there is no more :)	16:46
qwerty12_N900	archebyte: Ah, it's that? Thanks!	16:46
Venomrush	I have the following:	16:46
Venomrush	Recorder	16:46
Venomrush	Hermes	16:46
Venomrush	Quik	16:46
Venomrush	Bounce	16:46
Venomrush	Sheet to go	16:46
Venomrush	Slideshow To Go	16:46
Venomrush	Word To Go	16:46
Venomrush	Mauku	16:46
Venomrush	iNES	16:46
Venomrush	VGB	16:46
VDVsx	Stskeeps, you can have something like this, hihih: http://androidandme.com/2009/11/applications/mikandi-launches-first-adult-application-store-for-android/	16:46
Venomrush	VGBA	16:46
Venomrush	eCoach	16:46
Venomrush	Gonvert	16:46
Venomrush	ATI85	16:46
GeneralAntilles	~pastebin	16:46
Venomrush	Mirror	16:46
infobot	[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste	16:46
zaheerm	bilboed-pi, the other people were (me for bringing it up in the UX meets code)	16:46
Venomrush	FM Radio	16:46
Venomrush	MasterGear	16:46
Venomrush	Xournal	16:46
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: You can make the first vibrator app	16:46
Venomrush	Location Test	16:46
Venomrush	Crash Reporter	16:46
qwerty12_N900	Jeez...	16:46
Venomrush	On Desktop, there are the following that needs Web connection:	16:46
Venomrush	Facebook widget	16:46
VDVsx	stop	16:46
Venomrush	RSS widget	16:46
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles		16:46
Khertan	STOP !	16:46
* bilboed-pi smells kick		16:46
archebyte	oh boy	16:46
qwerty12_N900	...it's hammertime!	16:46
Venomrush	Crap there's another same error	16:46
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles		16:46
zaheerm	Veggen,	16:46
GeneralAntilles	Venomrush, don't paste things longer than 3 lines into the chat window, thanks.	16:46
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: who else is deputized in here btw?	16:46
Khertan	Venomrush: flash it ill be faster	16:46
GeneralAntilles	Venomrush, use a pastebin so you don't flood the channel.	16:46
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: pupnik went a bit overboard in racist slurs earlier so :P	16:46
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, X-Fade and Jaffa have access, nobody else is opped.	16:46
archebyte	Venomrush: it is hard to do anything when that error comes up.. best to re-plug the battery..	16:46
Stskeeps	k	16:46
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Venomrush	archebyte: systeminfo widget?	16:47
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I kicked him around 2 AM my time and had a chat with him about it.	16:47
bilboed-pi	zaheerm, you were saying ?	16:47
archebyte	Venomrush yes	16:47
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: ah, i was offline there	16:47
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lopz	hi ^>^	16:47
qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps: He had 20l of drink... No excuse, though, I know	16:47
zaheerm	bilboed-pi, the other people were me for bringing it up in the UX meets code discussion, and a few people on that thread that liked the idea	16:47
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o VDVsx		16:48
Venomrush	archebyte: do you mean the load-applet?	16:48
VDVsx	:D	16:48
zaheerm	bilboed-pi, personally i'd be a big user to fix my really badly created videos into youtube uploadable material ;)	16:48
bilboed-pi	zaheerm, :)	16:48
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, I've access too	16:48
SpeedEvil	zaheerm: err - you're missing the point.	16:48
archebyte	Venomrush: no.. systeminfowidget debuted into extras-testing yesterday..	16:48
*** VDVsx sets mode: -o VDVsx		16:49
SpeedEvil	zaheerm: it's gotta be badly created or it's not according to youtubes TOS.	16:49
zaheerm	SpeedEvil, which point?	16:49
GeneralAntilles	. . . and VDVsx.	16:49
zaheerm	SpeedEvil, :P	16:49
bilboed-pi	SpeedEvil, :)	16:49
qwerty12_N900	lol: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=400696&postcount=83	16:49
Venomrush	archebyte: ah, i don't have that, just the load-applet	16:49
zaheerm	s/youtube/other more professional video hosting site/	16:49
Venomrush	so systeminfowidget has memory leak? why shud be kick down to devel	16:49
Venomrush	*it shud be kick down to devel	16:50
GeneralAntilles	Oh, rcadden.	16:50
qwerty12_N900	Venomrush: It's only found in -devel	16:50
Venomrush	someone just said it's in extras-testing	16:50
qwerty12_N900	Is it?	16:50
qwerty12_N900	Hmm	16:50
Venomrush	yeah	16:50
archebyte	Venomrush: yes..	16:50
Venomrush	apparently since yesterday	16:50
qwerty12_N900	I can confirm a memory leak	16:50
Venomrush	in systeminfowidget ?	16:51
qwerty12_N900	Yeah	16:51
archebyte	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6442	16:52
povbot	Bug 6442: Memory leaks cause device to run out of memory	16:52
qwerty12_N900	Isn't that a given? =)	16:52
Venomrush	:D	16:54
derf	The expected behavior is a magical device with infinite memory.	16:55
Venomrush	btw, i don't even have systeminfowidget	16:55
Venomrush	still got those nasty memory errors	16:55
jaska	infinite tape?:)	16:55
archebyte	Venomrush: I don't think there's a way out.. can you ssh into it?	16:55
SpeedEvil	Is there a way to turn off autocomplete?	16:56
Venomrush	i dont even know how to ssh :)	16:56
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SpeedEvil	I was entering my wifi password, and the normal behaviour - show char entered for a moment, then blank it - was sane.	16:56
qwerty12_N900	archebyte: For systeminfowidget ones: ctrl+shift+x and killall hildon-home allowed me to start up apps again	16:56
Venomrush	to find any meaning info	16:56
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qwerty12_N900	SpeedEvil: Text input settings in the control panel	16:56
SpeedEvil	Then it came up with some autosuggestions - and those came up, and were instantly *'d out - including the letter I was entering	16:57
archebyte	qwerty12_N900: in my case, the shortcut wouldn't register.. had to replug the battery	16:57
qwerty12_N900	Ouch :\	16:57
Venomrush	although i noticed this error for the first time after i installed Crash Reporter & Location-Test-GUI	16:57
Venomrush	i installed those 2 last night	16:57
Venomrush	got the memory error today	16:58
Venomrush	before that	16:58
Venomrush	3 days straight	16:58
Venomrush	nothing	16:58
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fiferboy	qwerty12_N900: Hey, back at work after my "vacation"	17:13
fiferboy	qwerty12_N900: fiferbaby-2.0 is very good, but keeping us busy	17:13
qwerty12_N900	Hehe, congrats	17:13
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SpeedEvil	Is there anything special I need to do to get GPS working? I go to maps, and the sat dish appears with a red line through it even for some minutes outside under a clear sky	17:15
SpeedEvil	Is it required to use a phone internet connection?	17:15
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jaem	nope	17:15
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jaem	I've used it just fine with wifi	17:16
SpeedEvil	Hmm. Maybe it's upset I haven't set the time.	17:16
jaem	let me check something	17:16
jaem	hmm... well, it looks like A-GPS might require a cell connection	17:17
jaem	not sure, but try turning that off	17:17
jaem	it gets a lock quickly enough anyway, if you're standing still	17:17
SpeedEvil	turning what off?	17:18
jaem	much better than the N810, and subsequent times-to-lock nearby in space-time are much quicker	17:18
jaem	Settings -> GPS -> Use A-GPS and Reverse-Geocoding	17:18
jaem	uncheck it, and try again	17:18
jaem	just a thought	17:18
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lardman	jaem: without cell data it's very slow	17:21
lardman	try it with no SIM card for example	17:22
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jaem	lardman, I have, although maybe my opinion is skewed by how terrible the N810's time-to-lock was :P	17:22
lardman	well it wouldn't lock for me at all without a sim	17:22
lardman	and yeah n810 was also terrible	17:22
jaem	that said, once I got an initial fix a few days ago, it locked quite quickly later that day	17:22
jaem	repeatedly	17:22
jaem	huh	17:22
lardman	no sim?	17:23
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jaem	nope	17:23
jaem	just wifi	17:23
qwerty12_N900	jaem: To be fair, without a sim, the N900's GPS can be compared to the N810's one in that regard :p	17:23
jaem	I did notice that it takes forever to get a lock if you're moving	17:23
lardman	though how it obtains its initial location I don't know	17:23
jaem	but standing still, it was reasonably quick	17:23
lardman	perhaps it uses more advanced agps and lets the supld server work out where it is?	17:23
jaem	for some value of "reasonably"	17:23
derf	jaem: Most GPS devices work like that, AFAIK.	17:23
jaem	derf, yeah, I figured	17:23
derf	lardman: You were able to update the qemu scratchbox uses, right?	17:24
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lardman	derf: yep, works fine now	17:24
derf	lardman: Any pointers to how you did it?	17:24
lardman	though not for Qt building for Diablo still	17:24
lardman	derf: hmm	17:24
lardman	derf: install all the diablo stuff bar the scratchbox-libs\|core	17:25
SpeedEvil	Ok - that's somewhat concerning.	17:25
SpeedEvil	~3 min, and no lock.	17:25
SpeedEvil	Too cold for longer.	17:25
lardman	derf: then in fremantle sb, do sb-menu and setup a new target using the old toolchain, and old devkits	17:25
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derf	Can I just use my existing old target?	17:26
qwerty12_N900	lardman: A new target is a bit excessive; why not edit your normal target's config and switch when needed?	17:26
lardman	derf: copy it across?	17:26
lardman	no idea	17:26
lardman	I just set up a new one	17:27
bakarat	gah, don't know whether or not to buy the n900, it's rather expensive and it may be obsolete in a year...	17:27
jaem	lardman, qwerty12_N900, why the new qemu?	17:27
derf	I mean, I've got like 5 targets sitting around.	17:27
lardman	yeah same here	17:27
derf	But anyway, go on.	17:27
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lardman	jaem: old one doens't do all the instructions Qt seems to use	17:27
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qwerty12_N900	jaem: I haven't needed to use one for Fremantle, but in Diablo, I used one to sort out some Python issues (mainly vanity related ones)	17:28
lardman	derf: home is then shared by all your targets, so I just copied the files from my diablo home to a sub dir in my main (fremantle) sb home and away I go	17:28
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lardman	jaem: not new anyway, just want to use fremantle qemu for diablo building	17:28
derf	Okay, I missed the part where the new qemu got installed.	17:28
lardman	well I installed the Fremantle SDK, then I'm adding Diablo stuff to that	17:29
lardman	sorry	17:29
LuciusMare	hello i downloaded this image: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/PC/vpc-sdk/ - any way how to tell if the step 3 went good? At first it told me an error,and now i let it run and it disappeared so i am not sure	17:29
derf	Diablo's qemu was newer?	17:29
derf	That doesn't make any sense.	17:30
lardman	no, I'm installing Diablo devkits and compiler in Fremantle sb (which includes the newer qemu)	17:30
derf	Ah!	17:30
lardman	:)	17:30
derf	No, I want something newer than Fremantle's.	17:31
lardman	oh I see	17:31
lardman	I don't know then, sorry	17:31
lardman	bbiab	17:31
derf	Well, thanks anyway.	17:31
lardman	np	17:31
*** lardman is now known as lardman\|away		17:31
LuciusMare	i guess it didn't go well,i have a terminalfull of errors :(	17:32
jaem	LuciusMare, is there a reason you couldn't use the VMWare images?	17:32
jaem	I've had good luck with them	17:32
LuciusMare	segfaults,core dumps,uncaught exceptions	17:32
LuciusMare	jaem: i AM using them	17:32
jaem	yikes	17:32
jaem	LuciusMare, I meant these: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/	17:33
LuciusMare	oh	17:33
jaem	that's what I'd advise using	17:33
LuciusMare	diablo is 5?	17:33
jaem	nope	17:33
jaem	diablo is 4	17:34
jaem	fremantle is maemo 5	17:34
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LuciusMare	there is no fremantle :(	17:34
jaem	these images should include the SDK for both	17:34
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jaem	here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php	17:34
LuciusMare	oh	17:34
LuciusMare	nvm	17:34
jaem	read the agreement and click through	17:34
LuciusMare	i didnt see it	17:34
jaem	then decide which image you want	17:34
jaem	Server gets you a command line install	17:34
jaem	Desktop gets you a desktop install	17:35
jaem	read the readmes before downloading	17:35
jaem	also note that it uses cookies for the click-through, so you won't be able to wget the links over ssh, or anything like that	17:35
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LuciusMare	jaem: what about wget and --cookies ?	17:36
LuciusMare	:)	17:36
frals	god, javaME is... >_<	17:36
jaem	oh yeah... that's what I was trying to look up :P	17:36
jaem	heh	17:36
LuciusMare	hah	17:36
jaem	yeah, but I meant without that	17:36
LuciusMare	man wget\|grep cookie	17:36
LuciusMare	aw	17:37
LuciusMare	yet another 2gbs to dl	17:37
qwerty12_N900	frals: Be thankful that it cannot corrupt you on Maemo =)	17:37
frals	aye :)	17:37
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orbarron	morning all	17:40
Stskeeps	morning orbarron	17:41
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* zaheerm twiddles his thumbs while a package in autobuilder takes > 1hr to build		17:44
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LuciusMare	arrr	17:45
LuciusMare	wtf	17:45
LuciusMare	did there really appear me saying "arr" ?	17:46
lbt_	no	17:46
jaem	yep	17:46
lbt_	you said arrr	17:46
derf	Three r's.	17:46
LuciusMare	wtf	17:46
LuciusMare	i dont remember typing it	17:46
jaem	O_o	17:46
LuciusMare	just staring at the screen when it appeared O_o	17:46
* lbt_ celebrates		17:47
* LuciusMare looks into a mirror		17:47
lbt_	it worked!!	17:47
Khertan	http://www.maemo-guru.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/maemo6.jpg <<< lol ... there is also a zelda here :)	17:47
qwerty12_N900	LuciusMare: Wazd is in your computer, looking for your porn	17:47
LuciusMare	pirate porn?	17:47
LuciusMare	nvm	17:47
LuciusMare	back to what i want to intentionally...or just type	17:47
LuciusMare	or just want to type	17:48
LuciusMare	I forgot it	17:48
LuciusMare	OMG	17:48
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LuciusMare	Something is wrong with me	17:48
LuciusMare	oh,yes i know	17:49
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LuciusMare	after i download the image,it will be an installation of the sDK?	17:49
LuciusMare	*SDK?	17:49
jaem	LuciusMare, you'll need to unzip it using 7-zip first	17:49
LuciusMare	and,the 6 ui concept sucks	17:49
jaem	but then, yes	17:49
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LuciusMare	i find the good old 4 desktops better than a widgetfull dashboard or whatever it is	17:50
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LuciusMare	what about you?	17:53
LuciusMare	Wat do you think about tit?	17:53
LuciusMare	*What do you think about it?	17:53
jaem	I haven't looked at the Maemo 6 UI concepts yet	17:55
jaem	I've been meaning to	17:55
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yannj	hey guys, my n900 does not want to turn on, I get the first nokia splash screen, then little dot blinking and it shut down	17:59
Stskeeps	battery low?	18:00
yannj	I dont think so	18:00
Stskeeps	fwiw, it may sometimes go into a mode where it shuts down cos of bad last shutdown	18:00
Stskeeps	let it shut down, and thne turn it on	18:00
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yannj	I did	18:01
VDVsx	try to remove the battery too, sometimes also helps	18:01
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qwerty12_N900	...just put in the charger before ruling out low battery issues?	18:02
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yannj	I just have the usb cable with me	18:02
jaem	yannj, were you charging from a computer, or from the wall charger?	18:02
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yannj	I charged from wall in the morning	18:03
bolsh	Hi	18:03
bolsh	Is Jeremiah around?	18:03
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yannj	I installed a kernel module yesterday	18:03
yannj	I did reboot from yesterday I think	18:03
VDVsx	ok, probably you broke something :)	18:04
yannj	did not*	18:04
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yannj	how to acces the filesystem and remove it now	18:04
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SpeedEvil	GPS seems not to lock if you have wildly inaccurate times.	18:05
SpeedEvil	(as in last year)	18:06
jaem	SpeedEvil, no kidding	18:06
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yannj	is there a way to debug at startup?	18:07
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Stskeeps	fuz_ had a fbcon kernel	18:11
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tbf	yannj: no idea how to access the FS in such state. you might have to reflash	18:20
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yannj	how do I reflash	18:20
Stskeeps	~flashing	18:21
infobot	rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	18:21
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yannj	I'll try	18:30
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Ceron^	http://www.fukung.net/v/9252/5c944ff6947a71445cc9a8a5b7e83cea.jpg	18:38
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LuciusMare	NOOO	18:45
LuciusMare	I just finished downloading the SDK image	18:45
LuciusMare	Had to remove half of my movies so it would fit there	18:45
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jaem	:(	18:45
LuciusMare	AND I DOWNLOADED FREAKIN DIABLO!	18:45
jaem	aw	18:45
jaem	wait, what?	18:46
jaem	it should have both SDKs	18:46
LuciusMare	huh	18:46
LuciusMare	this is weird	18:46
LuciusMare	i downloaded 1246690289 Maemo PreFinal 2 Fremantle and Diablo SDK Virtual Image with Ubuntu Intrepid 8.10 Desktop Part 2	18:46
LuciusMare	called 1246690289 Maemo PreFinal 2 Fremantle and Diablo SDK Virtual Image with Ubuntu Intrepid 8.10 Desktop Part 2	18:47
LuciusMare	zomg	18:47
LuciusMare	called Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip.001	18:47
LuciusMare	Then why is there "diablo examples" and in readme is "Maemo Diablo SDK Virtual Image with Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex Desktop Edition installed" ?	18:47
jaem	one sec	18:48
jaem	you grabbed part 1 and part 2, right?	18:48
jaem	and unzipped them?	18:48
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LuciusMare	yes	18:49
LuciusMare	then loaded the disk	18:49
jaem	those are the same files that I downloaded, and that image includes both	18:49
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LuciusMare	and does your readme say the same?	18:49
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LuciusMare	yay	18:50
jaem	I can't check right now, sorry, but if you downloaded the Desktop images from the link I gave you, then you have the right one	18:50
LuciusMare	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~]	18:50
jaem	\o/	18:51
LuciusMare	^^	18:51
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lardman	re	18:52
zaheerm	any1 know a direct url for promoting to extras-testing the package page for the version i want to promote keeps timing out (for last hour or so)	18:57
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LuciusMare	aw	19:01
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LuciusMare	when i run App manager,it tells me "operation failed"	19:01
yannj	My phone is back to ife	19:01
yannj	life!! thanks u all	19:01
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LuciusMare	and so,operation failed and if i click browse installable - no apps available	19:03
LuciusMare	er	19:03
jaem	yannj, woot	19:03
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LuciusMare	yes,no catalogues in use and then no apps available	19:03
jaem	LuciusMare, in the SDK, you mean?	19:03
LuciusMare	jaem: yes	19:04
jaem	ah	19:04
jaem	that's to be expected	19:04
LuciusMare	ah	19:04
LuciusMare	i didnt expect it.	19:04
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jaem	if you need packages from extras, you have to add the repo	19:04
jaem	by default it just has the tools and sdk repos	19:05
LuciusMare	i want any packages	19:05
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LuciusMare	But i cant install any	19:05
jaem	and you'll want to use fakeroot apt-get in scratchbox, not the app manager	19:05
LuciusMare	i dont even have a terminal	19:05
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jaem	wait, are you using sbox + Xephyr, or the host OS (ubuntu)?	19:06
LuciusMare	er	19:06
jaem	okay	19:06
jaem	you started up the SDK VM, right?	19:06
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jaem	then what did you do?	19:06
zaheerm	package_instance/view keeps timing out...been trying for > an hour, is there a problem?	19:06
LuciusMare	then used sbox and xephyr	19:06
jaem	ah	19:06
LuciusMare	i am running it	19:06
jaem	okay	19:07
jaem	so	19:07
jaem	you do your development inside the scratchbox shell	19:07
jaem	only use Xephyr for testing graphical apps	19:07
jaem	it's not an emulator	19:07
LuciusMare	oh	19:07
LuciusMare	hm	19:07
jaem	well, it sort of is, but not in the sense that you're probably expecting	19:07
jaem	don't expect to have a "virtual N900" in the SDK - you don't	19:07
jaem	you have an shell that can run ARM apps that you compile, and an X display to test/run graphical apps	19:08
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jaem	if you need packages from extras, then add it to your apt sources, and use fakeroot apt-get to install things	19:08
LuciusMare	at least i expected nrtwork functionality	19:08
jaem	if the VM has networking set up right, then that should work	19:09
jaem	are you using VMWare Server?	19:09
LuciusMare	no,virtualbox	19:09
LuciusMare	and the network in vb is properly set	19:09
jaem	huh	19:09
jaem	what happens when you try to ping something in sbox?	19:09
LuciusMare	in sbox?	19:10
LuciusMare	wait	19:10
Ford_Prefect	LuciusMare, you might need to copy /etc/resolv.conf into your sb target. If ping <ip> works and ping <host> does not, that should solve the problem.	19:11
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jaem	Ford_Prefect, thanks - I was about to suggest that, and then forgot ^_^	19:11
LuciusMare	um	19:12
LuciusMare	command ping not found	19:12
jaem	lol... right	19:12
jaem	I forgot	19:12
jaem	not installed by default	19:12
jaem	well, try what Ford_Prefect said	19:13
LuciusMare	where exatly is sb root?	19:13
LuciusMare	or - sb target?	19:14
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LuciusMare	i run /scratchbox/login	19:14
jaem	LuciusMare, from within scratchbox, it's /targets/[targetname]/, I believe	19:14
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LuciusMare	wait	19:14
hrw	2http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/11/30/i-wrote-module-player-in-qt/	19:15
LuciusMare	so different formulation - where should i put /etc/resolv.conf ?	19:15
LuciusMare	and i used dhcpclient	19:15
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jaem	in /, I believe	19:15
jaem	it's layered in some fashion	19:16
Ford_Prefect	Erm, <path-to-sb-target>/etc/resolv.conf is where I put it	19:16
LuciusMare	err	19:16
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jaem	go with what Ford_Prefect said	19:17
LuciusMare	i dont know what is path to sb target	19:17
Ford_Prefect	Sec	19:17
jaem	LuciusMare, look in /targets in scratchbox	19:17
LuciusMare	oh!	19:17
LuciusMare	nvm	19:17
jaem	heh	19:17
Ford_Prefect	/scratchbox/users/<user>/targets/FREMANTLE_X86/etc/ in my case	19:17
LuciusMare	lol	19:18
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LuciusMare	cat /etc/resolv.conf # Generated by NetworkManager	19:18
jaem	yeah, just replace it	19:19
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* GAN900 still needs to debug haze's inability to survive automatic connection changes.		19:33
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penguinbait	when I was burning you put wood on the fire.........	19:42
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luke-jr	penguinbait: could have been hair spray...	19:50
g^	on n900 does anyone know where filemanager stores the data what to use as root folder, ie. can you change it to point / instead of MyDocs	19:50
luke-jr	I somewhat doubt it	19:51
Stskeeps	g^: you don't want to do that though	19:51
luke-jr	based solely on the quality of Nokia code in the N810	19:51
luke-jr	or rather, the lack thereof	19:51
Stskeeps	/ should be owned by root, you run as user	19:51
till-	what about a symlink to / in MyDocs	19:52
g^	Stskeeps: yes, and... i am not talking about doing chmod -R a+rwx /	19:52
greenfly	maybe a better question is why you'd want to do that	19:52
g^	till-: MyDocs is vfat	19:52
till-	change the fs type :)	19:53
g^	till-: was thinking of that, but tought if filemanager used some .settings file to store that tuff =)	19:53
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till-	or maybe you can do some smb or ntfs stuff	19:54
LuciusMare	zing	19:54
LuciusMare	That reminds me something	19:54
LuciusMare	Have anybody here tried reformatting the ugly vfat to ext2 or 3?Or something else?	19:55
crashanddie	g^: /etc/passwd	19:55
crashanddie	LuciusMare: yes, makes it unusable through USB	19:55
jaem	crashanddie, well, for non-Linux OSes	19:55
g^	crashanddie: who uses windows anyways =D	19:56
jaem	so it's not convenient, but it'll work if you only use it on Linux computers	19:56
crashanddie	I do	19:56
crashanddie	at work	19:56
LuciusMare	aw	19:56
LuciusMare	why?	19:56
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crashanddie	because it's corporate policy?	19:56
LuciusMare	huh?	19:56
crashanddie	and because you don't have outlook on Linux?	19:56
crashanddie	LuciusMare: I'm a suit	19:56
* LuciusMare is confused.		19:56
jaem	g^, I don't usually, but I did that with my N810, and then forgot that I couldn't use it at the print-shop	19:56
jaem	heh	19:56
qwerty12_N900	g^: $MYDOCSDIR - but it is rather stupid changing it	19:56
LuciusMare	You are a piece of clothing?	19:56
crashanddie	LuciusMare: nevermind	19:57
till-	there are two ext2/3-drivers for windows	19:57
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crashanddie	till-: and none of those work over USB	19:57
jaem	till-, yes, have you tried them?	19:57
jaem	crashanddie, why not?	19:57
till-	i'm using a ext3 partition on both win and linux	19:57
crashanddie	they don't support hotplug IIRC	19:57
jaem	O RLY?	19:57
g^	qwerty12_N900: thanks!	19:57
LuciusMare	yes?	19:57
till-	even on a usb flash drive	19:57
LuciusMare	till-: how?	19:58
jaem	till-, are they stable?	19:58
LuciusMare	till-: oh,you told me...nvm	19:58
LuciusMare	_:D	19:58
till-	more or less	19:58
crashanddie	jaem: this was a few years back though	19:58
crashanddie	but yeah, on a partition they work fine	19:58
till-	one has a problem with not cleanly unmounted fs	19:58
zaheerm	i don't think i'd touch those ext drivers for windows with a barge pole	19:58
till-	windows wants to format them every time i tried to access :)	19:58
LuciusMare	If i connect my n900 to a computer,it acts as a mass storage device,right?	19:58
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till-	but what about making a MyDocs/win partition with fat32	19:59
LuciusMare	till-: nice feature	19:59
jaem	crashanddie, were those the native drivers, or one of the weird ext hacks that isn't quite a driver?	19:59
zaheerm	LuciusMare, yes it asks you first though, usb storage or pc suite mode	19:59
till-	and keeping MyDocs as ext2 or whatever	19:59
crashanddie	jaem: I believe the native driver or something, can't remember	19:59
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LuciusMare	zaheerm: great,thanks,and the mass storage mode works like it feeds the connected computer the data directly?	19:59
zaheerm	till-, what about /home/user as ext3 and /home/user/MyDocs as vfat ;)	19:59
zaheerm	LuciusMare, it acts like a usb stick	20:00
LuciusMare	zaheerm: i know,but how does it work?	20:00
till-	i thought the intention was to access / in the file manager	20:00
till-	and there MyDocs is root	20:00
LuciusMare	I guess that it does not actually run the data through maemo,just into the cable	20:00
g^	. /home/user is already a ext3	20:00
jaem	crashanddie, okay. I hadn't tried any of the, but as I understand it, there were some initial apps that allowed you to access an ext filesystem without providing a driver (presumably doing something in userspace?)	20:00
crashanddie	g^: edit /etc/passwd and set the user home directory to /	20:00
zaheerm	LuciusMare, the partition is unmounted on the maemo device, then presented to the computer to do what it wants over usb	20:01
crashanddie	g^: don't know if that'll work, might completely break it, but hey, you asked	20:01
g^	crashanddie: that makes no sense	20:01
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hrw	bye	20:01
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zaheerm	LuciusMare, so userspace in maemo doesn't proxy it, no...it is done in kernel	20:01
crashanddie	g^: how so?	20:01
LuciusMare	zaheerm: i know,but it could also work like getting requests,reading the partition and sending them back	20:01
g^	besides user's homedir is /home/user already	20:01
LuciusMare	yes,proxy,something like that	20:01
crashanddie	g^: [09:50] <g^> on n900 does anyone know where filemanager stores the data what to use as root folder, ie. can you change it to point / instead of MyDocs	20:02
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crashanddie	g^: hence, move the homedir to /	20:02
LuciusMare	*sending them back > sending the recoded data to the cable as the computer would expect	20:02
LuciusMare	nvm	20:02
* AakashPatel hopes his n900 ships today		20:02
crashanddie	then also patch your environment variable to change $MYDOCSDIR or whatever it is to point to ~	20:02
g^	crashanddie: no, that is definedly sth I would not want to do	20:02
crashanddie	please use real words	20:02
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LuciusMare	definedly	20:03
LuciusMare	:)	20:03
crashanddie	and "sth"	20:03
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LuciusMare	grammar nazi	20:03
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crashanddie	spelling nazi	20:03
crashanddie	quite different from grammar	20:04
LuciusMare	dictionary nazi	20:04
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crashanddie	what time is it in Europe now?	20:04
crashanddie	6PM	20:04
crashanddie	?	20:04
LuciusMare	what part of europe?	20:04
akeripper_	7pm	20:04
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akeripper_	swe time	20:04
crashanddie	k	20:04
crashanddie	thanks	20:04
LuciusMare	i also have 7pm,butt europe is big	20:05
crashanddie	yeah, I'm from London	20:05
crashanddie	so 6PM was pretty accurate, though I always consider Paris/Stockholm time to be "Europe time"	20:05
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crashanddie	I landed in California last night, I have no sense of time at this point	20:06
LuciusMare	wtf	20:06
LuciusMare	i am reading newspaper	20:06
crashanddie	interesting, you can read?	20:06
crashanddie	:P	20:06
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LuciusMare	i just hate when they shoot photos of handsome programmers	20:06
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LuciusMare	that was not the point.	20:07
qwerty12_N900	LuciusMare: Turns you on?	20:07
LuciusMare	Like,90% of programmers are geeks	20:07
crashanddie	no, they're not	20:07
LuciusMare	hm	20:07
LuciusMare	show me a handsome programmer	20:07
LuciusMare	(RMS :D)	20:07
Stskeeps	LuciusMare: i do know some quite hot computer scientists	20:08
Stskeeps	girls, that is	20:08
Stskeeps	:P	20:08
crashanddie	LuciusMare: elena	20:09
crashanddie	LuciusMare: one of my coworkers, trevor	20:09
crashanddie	LuciusMare: mostly, it's not about how you look, it's how you "maintain" yourself... You can be a hunk physically, if you don't wash and wear 70s clothes and haircut, you'll look like shit	20:09
LuciusMare	http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/500/there-are-no-girls-on-the-internet.jpg	20:09
lbt	andre__: ping.... how do I confirrm WPA2/AES? My router is runnning wrt and has WPA1+2 and RC4/AES available. dmesg doesn't help	20:10
LuciusMare	ok,so i am in a ugly-programmer zone	20:10
Stskeeps	lbt: iwlist wlan0 scanning?	20:10
lbt	under fremantle?	20:11
Stskeeps	why not? :P	20:11
lardman	Argh, what's a bloody expiration date?	20:11
lbt	iwlist: not found	20:11
Stskeeps	install wireless-tools	20:11
lardman	idiots!	20:11
crashanddie	lardman: a date where something expires	20:11
lardman	no, that's an expiry date	20:11
lbt	wireless is for pansies anway :)	20:11
qwerty12_N900	lardman: Let the generalisations begin	20:11
lardman	an expiration date must be when something expirises	20:12
lardman	qwerty12_N900: you ready :)	20:12
lbt	hmm, should wireless-tools be in HAM then?	20:12
* lardman thinks of architected		20:12
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qwerty12_N900	lardman: No, I'm rather tired, actually	20:12
crashanddie	lardman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelf_life	20:12
LuciusMare	I have expired	20:13
qwerty12_N900	GTFO IRC, then	20:13
lardman	qwerty12_N900: we'll save up the abuse-the-abusers-of-the-Queen's-English for another time then	20:13
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crashanddie	the Queen can barely talk ffs	20:13
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lardman	crashanddie: just because some fool who can't speak English has written expiration in that doc doesn't make it right	20:14
LuciusMare	LOL http://www.popehat.com/2009/11/23/i-could-not-get-a-degree-from-lincoln-university/	20:14
crashanddie	lardman: http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aexpiration+date&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a	20:14
lardman	again, .com....	20:15
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crashanddie	lardman: there's some .gov in those definitions as well ;)	20:16
Flandry	is there a way to get the information in lsof through a system call?	20:16
qwerty12_N900	lardman: Cook Islands is the best Google	20:16
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crashanddie	lardman: now stop trolling, you suck at it	20:16
lardman	.gov doesn't count, they don't speak English	20:16
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crashanddie	true	20:16
qwerty12_N900	lbt: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/w/wireless-tools/	20:16
Flandry	oops wrong channel it seems :P	20:17
LuciusMare	? _ ?	20:17
Flandry	this is #freetrolls?	20:17
qwerty12_N900	Flandry: Only when you're present	20:17
LuciusMare	nope,i should reffer you to redirection channel #gay	20:17
lardman	anyone use Windows 7?	20:18
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lardman	and namely how do I find the MAC of my wifi chipset?	20:18
Flandry	yeah asking unix questions is my way of trolling	20:18
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crashanddie	lardman: ipconfig /all ?	20:18
qwerty12_N900	lardman: Sure... Oh... let me just castrate myself first	20:18
Flandry	in earlier versions it's in the registry	20:18
Flandry	not sure about 7	20:18
Flandry	in fact you can change it there ;)	20:18
crashanddie	not if the chipset doesn't support it	20:19
lardman	that worked, thanks crashanddie	20:19
crashanddie	lardman: np	20:19
Flandry	probably	20:19
Flandry	worked fine when i needed it though	20:19
CShadowRun	So, it's the 30th november, N900's still preorder...I thought it was out today?	20:20
Flandry	so there's no other way to get file open information than parsing lsof?	20:20
pH5	Flandry: I believe lsof just parses /proc/*/fd	20:21
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RST38h	http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/11/340x_lgexpo.jpg	20:22
Flandry	thanks	20:22
lardman_	mm, so that's what happens when you reboot your router	20:23
LuciusMare	lardman_: lemme try	20:24
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LuciusMare	okay,enough for me	20:24
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LuciusMa1e	enuff for me	20:25
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Flandry	would be nice if there was something in between	20:25
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CShadowRun	anyone on my question?	20:25
pH5	CShadowRun: yes, you thought it was out today.	20:26
CShadowRun	indeed i did :p	20:26
CShadowRun	so, what's the new release date?	20:26
LuciusMa1e	Could anyone retell me what does the nokia EULA actually contain,and why the hell it is there on open software?	20:27
qwerty12_N900	LuciusMa1e: Simple: Not everything is open	20:28
LuciusMa1e	qwerty12_N900: what is not?	20:28
Stskeeps	LuciusMa1e: 80% of platform is open, 20% isn't	20:28
mgedmin	many essential components	20:28
LuciusMa1e	what 20%?	20:28
qwerty12_N900	LuciusMa1e: Dunno... There's a list somewhere, can't be arsed to find it	20:28
mgedmin	a very good question that I'd like to see answered	20:28
Stskeeps	LuciusMa1e: if you wait a little while my openness report should be done	20:28
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mgedmin	Stskeeps, cool!	20:29
Stskeeps	i need to generate one for diablo as well so we have a comparision	20:29
* RST38h moos		20:29
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Stskeeps	LuciusMa1e: and that will reveal connections between open and closed and give a very good overview of things	20:31
Stskeeps	LuciusMa1e: you don't technically need nokia-binaries to develop for maemo but it sure helps	20:31
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Flandry	hmm this is tricky.	20:34
qwerty12_N900	crashanddie: How many languages do you speak? =)	20:34
crashanddie	qwerty12_N900: enough	20:35
mgedmin	http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages mentions some closed packages	20:35
crashanddie	qwerty12_N900: Speaking german is hard, however understanding it is quite easy, being dutch and all	20:35
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crashanddie	qwerty12_N900: I can read probably something around 8-9 different languages, speak 3 fluently, 5 if the other person is forgiving	20:36
qwerty12_N900	Nice	20:36
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unixSnob	i keep looking for french classes, but the ads for french classes are themselves in french	20:38
unixSnob	you'd think some bright instructor would try some non-french ads	20:38
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julianoliver	unixSnob: 'being' French and speaking French are two different things. sure the ads you saw weren't lessons in Frenchness?	20:40
baze	dutch is weird... reading it is easy but understanding a person talking it is something completely different ;)	20:40
aSIMULAtor	like swedish	20:40
aSIMULAtor	köttbullar!	20:40
unixSnob	julianoliver: the ads are in belgium, so i doubt it	20:41
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unixSnob	belgium has a lot of influence from france as it is	20:41
RST38h	"Michael Arrington announced the death of the CrunchPad on Monday morning in a blog post heavily spiced with angst and drama. According to Arrignton, the Cruchpad, a 12-inch Web tablet expected to be priced at about $300, was just days away from launch."	20:41
julianoliver	unixSnob: don't be too sure.. some of the Francophones I've met in .be fly the Frenchness flag high..	20:41
RST38h	Liar.	20:41
unixSnob	we can even drink wine at work.. served in the cafeteria	20:42
julianoliver	baze: little known fact: Dutch was a spinoff project of the Dr Seuss series of childrens books.	20:42
julianoliver	baze: you can read more about that here: http://www.seussville.com/	20:42
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julianoliver	unixSnob: indeed. i appreciate this also, the same in many countries across Europe..	20:43
unixSnob	i haven't figured out why brits do the cheek kiss to greet in belgium.. i mean, they're not belgian	20:44
julianoliver	while not being British, i did it when i lived in Belgium.	20:44
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julianoliver	out of politeness mostly..	20:44
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unixSnob	julianoliver: i don't mean to greet belgians.. I mean brits greeting brits	20:45
andre__	LuciusMa1e, for your interest: http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages	20:45
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unixSnob	julianoliver: and i think it's a french thing.. I don't think the flemish do the cheek kiss	20:45
julianoliver	unixSnob: hehe. that is odd.	20:46
julianoliver	admittedly i didn't notice this strange behaviour.	20:46
unixSnob	i get confused w/ these folks.. not sure to extend a hand, or a lip	20:46
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unixSnob	i know i screw it up by actually kissing the cheek.. i think i'm supposed to kiss the air around the cheek.. either way, it's strange	20:47
unixSnob	i'm just going to start laying sloppy wet kisses on cheeks.. that'll stop folks from trying that kind of greet on me	20:48
unixSnob	my goal will be to leave somethign that they have to wipe off	20:49
Flandry	my Turkish and Italian friends do that as well	20:50
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Flandry	i don't think it's just a French thing	20:50
unixSnob	it's funny to see guys do it.. the other day a guy in full leathers w/ a couple chains, looking tough, did the cheek kiss w/ another guy - normal for french folks, but a shock to an american	20:50
julianoliver	people do it here in Germany a little also.	20:51
julianoliver	Swiss do it a lot also.	20:51
qwerty12_N900	unixSnob: Maybe it was foreplay?	20:51
unixSnob	well switzerland has a french population	20:51
unixSnob	surprizes me about the germans though	20:51
Flandry	Turkey's French population is fairly limited...	20:52
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unixSnob	i could pull an obama, and shake hands and kiss and bow all at once to get it covered	20:53
unixSnob	all in one swift move	20:53
julianoliver	unixSnob: Berliners, at least. i dare not generalise.	20:53
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unixSnob	what do you mean berliners? folks do that in berlin?	20:54
mikhas	aww, now you'll never visit us?	20:55
julianoliver	hehe	20:56
mgedmin	interesting	20:58
mgedmin	Salut lost one of my messages	20:58
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Flandry	is fakeroot just a scratchbox thing?	20:59
Flandry	i guess what i'm trying to figure out is if HAM is root on N900	21:00
Stskeeps	no, used other places too	21:00
Stskeeps	Flandry: dpkg is	21:00
mikhas	part of the debian packaging tools IIRC	21:01
Flandry	ok thanks	21:01
Flandry	so a post install script in a deb can run as root	21:02
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unixSnob	julianoliver: can you translate this for me (babelfish is lousy): A partir du 01-12-2009, le taux d'intérêt débiteur en cas	21:04
unixSnob	de dépassement autorisé diminue à 11 %. En cas de	21:04
unixSnob	dépassement non-autorisé, le taux d'intérêt débiteur est	21:04
unixSnob	porté à 12,10 %.	21:04
unixSnob		21:04
woglinde	what?	21:05
unixSnob	that was on a bank statement	21:05
Flandry	oh no, they got to him	21:05
woglinde	hm even I cannot speak french	21:06
woglinde	seems some taxes raises from 1.12.2009	21:06
woglinde	on	21:06
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woglinde	hm	21:06
woglinde	ah no	21:06
unixSnob	belgians already tax 60% of my income.. how can they raise that?	21:06
woglinde	60%?	21:06
mikhas	by going to 70%?	21:06
woglinde	more as in german	21:06
unixSnob	actually it's more	21:06
woglinde	uh	21:07
qwerty12_N900	unixSnob: Translation: Leave	21:07
woglinde	and we german always complain about 55%	21:07
unixSnob	there's national insurance too.. it's more like 75%	21:07
unixSnob	ie. i get to keep 25%	21:07
Flandry	what does the 75% get you?	21:08
unixSnob	Flandry: 50% off on medical expenses	21:08
derf	That's it?	21:08
Flandry	just that	21:08
unixSnob	yeah, it sucks	21:08
Flandry	ouch	21:08
* GeneralAntilles chuckles.		21:08
unixSnob	and when i chipped a tooth and needed a cap, quote was 1000 euro, no coverage	21:08
unixSnob	you'd think they'd give me a blood crown considering i'm paying 75% in tax	21:09
Flandry	that seems...excessive	21:09
unixSnob	but the beer and chocolate here is quite good	21:09
julianoliver	unixSnob: i barely read French but it just relates to interest rates for a debt after the date given.	21:10
julianoliver	unixSnob: be sure to try Chimay Blue, Duvel and Leffe Brun.	21:10
unixSnob	julianoliver: okay.. quite interesting.. not sure how I can even get into debt on a belgian credit card - it's not trully credit	21:10
woglinde	unixsnob oh my god	21:10
unixSnob	they grab the balance straight out of my bank account every month	21:11
woglinde	now I am fine with living in germany	21:11
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Jaffa	ev'ning	21:11
Stskeeps	evening jaffa	21:11
lardman_	hey Jaffa	21:11
GeneralAntilles	Hello, Jaffa.	21:11
unixSnob	julianoliver: chimay blue is great	21:11
KMFDM	juliank, those are all excellent indeed, but you also have to try chimay white	21:11
KMFDM	and westmalle tripel	21:11
julianoliver	indeed	21:11
KMFDM	and dubel	21:11
KMFDM	as well	21:11
unixSnob	i like hoogarden white..	21:11
GeneralAntilles	I think a sources.maemo.org wouldn't be an awful idea.	21:12
unixSnob	never thought chimay would come in white	21:12
julianoliver	unixSnob: it does?	21:12
* unixSnob high fives KMFDM on the westmalle triple		21:12
Flandry	blue beer?	21:12
KMFDM	Flandry, nah it is a trappist ale	21:12
unixSnob	julianoliver: that's what KMFDM said	21:12
KMFDM	but the blue label is a double	21:12
KMFDM	err	21:12
KMFDM	triple	21:12
KMFDM	and the white label is as well i think	21:13
unixSnob	Flandry: actually we have green beer here, if you're into colors	21:13
unixSnob	it's cactus beer	21:13
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Flandry	interesting	21:13
unixSnob	quite good actually	21:13
KMFDM	unixSnob, westmalle triple is what I always drink if I'm out and about as most cafes here don't have chimay	21:13
Flandry	actually i don't drink, but the thought of blue beer was odd	21:13
unixSnob	KMFDM: great for getting hammered quickly too	21:13
KMFDM	unixSnob, of course. I'm pretty buzzed after 1	21:14
mikhas	hm, cactus beer. I have to try that!	21:14
KMFDM	and after 2 I'm generally done for the night	21:14
lardman_	I had some red and green beer when I was in Berlin	21:14
KMFDM	but I'm quite light	21:14
mikhas	could you describe the flavour for me?	21:14
KMFDM	55kg	21:14
Flandry	they have green beer here on St Paddy's day though	21:14
unixSnob	mikhas: you can get it at Delerium Tremens in brussels	21:14
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julianoliver	unixSnob: the most honest name for a Belgian Bar, indeed.	21:14
KMFDM	unixSnob, chimay white is actually even tastier than the blue somewhat	21:15
unixSnob	lardman_: was the red beer cherry flavored? Cherry beer is popular in belgium	21:15
KMFDM	but blue gets your more hammered	21:15
mikhas	lardman_, that "red/green" stuff isn't actually beer, if you go by the law =)	21:15
lardman_	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Weisse is mine	21:15
mikhas	yeah	21:15
woglinde	lardman I dont like it	21:15
KMFDM	unixSnob, yeah the berry flavored beers taste good, but give me an awful hangover	21:15
KMFDM	belgian ales never do	21:15
KMFDM	and belgian ales get me a lot more hammered	21:15
lardman_	unixSnob: those flavoured beers are dangerous, was at a conference and they were serving "tasters" of that and another one	21:15
unixSnob	KMFDM: well the cherry beer isn't good in quanity anyway.. i just have one every 6 or so regular beers to refresh the taste buds	21:16
lardman_	even with my vast bulk, I was very pissed by the end of the day ;)	21:16
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unixSnob	i made the mistake of ordering a pint of cherry beer	21:16
lardman_	too sweet for my tastes	21:17
unixSnob	from now on, I'll just order 33cl of cherry beer	21:17
greenfly	it can be good if they are making a sour beer	21:17
clmntch	does it bother anyone (else) that the battery meter doesn't display usage in percent?	21:17
lardman_	yeah	21:17
julianoliver	clmntch: yes	21:17
lardman_	clmntch: the prediction is not that accurate reaslistically	21:17
KMFDM	yeah i'd prefer a percentage	21:17
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unixSnob	clmntch: it bothers me that the display is color only	21:17
julianoliver	clmntch: i would like to see an estimate in time left though.	21:17
clmntch	lardman_: yes, but they display it as battery half full/empty	21:17
unixSnob	the NIT should move to the dual color/mono lcds	21:18
lardman	what device is this?	21:18
KMFDM	I enver make it to 6 beers	21:18
KMFDM	unless I'm drinking weak stuff	21:18
clmntch	lardman: n900	21:18
lardman	hmm, I thought it has more graduations than that...?	21:18
greenfly	there seems to be about 8-10 levels	21:18
GeneralAntilles	unixSnob, to what possible end?	21:18
unixSnob	ideally a device would switch to mono mode when the battery is low - like switching to the reserve tank on a motorcycle	21:18
lardman	greenfly: yep	21:18
GeneralAntilles	unixSnob, composited UI is going to look like shit in mono	21:18
GeneralAntilles	assuming it's usable.	21:19
* lardman looks for Pleora Vista drivers		21:19
unixSnob	GeneralAntilles: sure, but you don't care about the aesthetics when it's about to power off	21:19
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unixSnob	you just want it to function to get the info	21:19
GeneralAntilles	unixSnob, dual-mode LCDs add to cost.	21:19
unixSnob	also, mono is better in daylight	21:19
GeneralAntilles	Especially dual-mode LCDs at that DPI	21:19
GeneralAntilles	Assuming they even make them.	21:19
GeneralAntilles	But, considering both the software and hardware costs to implement this feature it sounds like an waste considering the limited benefits.	21:20
greenfly	plus what % is the display impacting power consumption at that point	21:20
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greenfly	seems like you'd get more benefit disabling all wireless	21:20
g^	hmm.. it seems to be possible to mkfs.ext3 MyDocs drive & add symlinks to / & /home/user as with older tablets =)	21:20
greenfly	and scaling down that ARM	21:20
GeneralAntilles	greenfly, depends.	21:21
greenfly	that's because littering / like a home directory is a unix abomination :)	21:21
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GeneralAntilles	Race-to-idle and all that jazz	21:21
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Flandry	reducing the backlight to minimum automatically would do more anyway	21:23
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pH5	qwerty12_N900: thanks for petrovich. you don't happen to know how to interface with libcumulus, too?	21:23
Flandry	unless it's already there of course	21:24
qwerty12_N900	pH5: No idea, sorry	21:24
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woglinde	what the hell is petrovich?	21:24
woglinde	sounds like vodka	21:24
LuciusMa1e	Also went on my mind	21:24
unixSnob	Flandry: it depends on the daylight. the NIT is hardly functional in bright daylight if you have a reduced backlight	21:24
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GeneralAntilles	unixSnob, which model do you own? :)	21:25
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unixSnob	the old palms do quite fine in bright daylight	21:25
unixSnob	GeneralAntilles: n800	21:25
lardman	unixSnob: wfm with N810 and N900	21:25
julianoliver	woglinde: Petrovich is a test tube baby of Russian descent.	21:25
GeneralAntilles	unixSnob, yeah, not applicable to either the N810 or N900, then.	21:25
Flandry	seems like the reflection would overpower the backlight anyway	21:25
GeneralAntilles	They're both transflective.	21:25
Flandry	ah :)	21:25
lardman	~curse VB for not supporting sending arrays using winsock (slightly OT I know)	21:26
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, VB for not supporting sending arrays using winsock (slightly OT I know) !	21:26
qwerty12_N900	pH5: You may consider asking for libcumulus-dev to be put in nokia-binaries. Looks like they've just started listening:	21:26
unixSnob	Flandry: it doesn't ahve to be direct light to hinder it.. just bright enough. I have to turn the backlight up quite high to be able to read	21:26
GeneralAntilles	lardman, careful, we may have to do to you what we did to lcuk.	21:26
qwerty12_N900	bug 6177	21:26
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6177 Consider pushing sharing-dialog-dev to nokia-binaries to encourage developer usage of sharing dialog	21:26
fiferboy	lardman: cursing VB is always topical	21:26
lardman	what's libcumulus?	21:26
Flandry	yes but that's because it's not reflective	21:26
GeneralAntilles	unixSnob, yes, because the N800 isn't transflective.	21:26
GeneralAntilles	What Flandry said.	21:27
lardman	fiferboy: :)	21:27
fiferboy	lardman: I think it is a tag cloud library	21:27
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, welcome back.	21:27
fiferboy	There are no headers available for it, though	21:27
Flandry	looking for opinions on the best way to shutdown a background program from a script that starts it earlier	21:27
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Thanks	21:27
unixSnob	what's transflective?	21:27
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GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, the kid graduate college yet?	21:27
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid_crystal_display	21:27
lardman	fiferboy: ah yes, the name sort of gives it away hey? ;)	21:27
pH5	qwerty12_N900: great, thanks for the hint	21:28
Flandry	unixSnob: the substrate is reflective so that the incident light helps make the image visible	21:28
GeneralAntilles	unixSnob, it's got little holes that allow ambient light to be bounced back through the LCD.	21:28
GeneralAntilles	^	21:28
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: No, we are holding him back to stay with his age group	21:28
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unixSnob	kinda like the 3d film that gets displayed by putting a mirror behind it	21:29
Flandry	i'm thinking of having the background process check a file, and die when the script deletes it.	21:29
lardman	I wonder if it's libcumulus-{humilis\|mediocris\|congestus}?	21:29
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, you're just jealous of him. :P	21:29
Flandry	how's that sound?	21:29
LuciusMa1e	pH5: np,use wiki :P%	21:29
luke-jr	lardman: lrn2bash	21:29
pH5	lardman: mediocris would explain why they don't want to show the code	21:30
lardman	luke-jr: nothanks	21:30
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lardman	:)	21:30
luke-jr	{a\|b\|c} is not valid syntax in any language I know	21:30
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LuciusMa1e	luke-jr: then we need to invent one	21:30
lardman	lard=pseudo-code	21:30
qwerty12_N900	pH5: Even the headers, forget the code! Oh, Nokia, how I love you	21:30
luke-jr	or just use standard BASH syntax	21:31
luke-jr	{a,b,c}	21:31
luke-jr	more readable too	21:31
LuciusMa1e	or,to be more accurate	21:31
LuciusMa1e	{blah;blah1;blah2}	21:31
luke-jr	...	21:31
LuciusMa1e	If one field could contain a string separated by a comma	21:31
LuciusMa1e	:	21:32
LuciusMa1e	)	21:32
luke-jr	that's not valid either	21:32
LuciusMa1e	use C,luke	21:32
mikhas	my favourite bash replacement is {a,b}{1,2}{A,B}	21:32
mikhas	it gives the full cross product	21:32
mikhas	so useful when dealing with complex directory hierarchies	21:32
luke-jr	LuciusMa1e: it's not valid C either	21:32
LuciusMa1e	it is	21:33
mikhas	{,folder}/ for example	21:33
LuciusMa1e	waiz	21:33
LuciusMa1e	wai	21:33
LuciusMa1e	...	21:33
LuciusMa1e	wait	21:33
LuciusMa1e	nvm	21:33
luke-jr	{blah;blah1;blah2} would be valid Perl for something completely different	21:34
LuciusMa1e	python fields?	21:34
LuciusMa1e	wait,these are separated by a normal comma	21:34
luke-jr	Python thinks it's gibberish too	21:34
LuciusMa1e	nevermind	21:34
luke-jr	lol XD	21:35
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yuizy	maybe javascript	21:35
woglinde	g	21:35
luke-jr	ReferenceError: <interactive>:1: blah	21:35
luke-jr	nope	21:35
lardman	argh, I hate VB	21:35
luke-jr	lardman: liar	21:36
lardman	?	21:36
woglinde	lardman than avoid it	21:36
luke-jr	you love VB	21:36
luke-jr	we all know it	21:36
AakashPatel	mmm VB	21:36
AakashPatel	:x	21:36
luke-jr	woglinde: lardman goes out of his way to use VB	21:36
lardman	woglinde: has bindings for the hw I want to control	21:36
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luke-jr	or am I thinking someone else?	21:36
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lardman	luke-jr: sure do, especially good for work on DSPs ;)	21:36
luke-jr	lardman: that's a reason to reverse engineer the hw	21:36
LuciusMa1e	isnt that technically illegal?	21:37
luke-jr	LuciusMa1e: no?	21:37
lardman	luke-jr: well the hw is unfortunately abstracted by the VB interface, and tbh I can't be arsed :)	21:37
luke-jr	lardman: fail	21:37
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lardman	luke-jr: I get paid for results, not time spent ;)	21:37
AakashPatel	LOL	21:37
luke-jr	LuciusMa1e: reverse engineering is technically a right	21:38
AakashPatel	The chick at nokia USA's support told me to call back LATER	21:38
luke-jr	that fool sign away with contracts	21:38
AakashPatel	cuz they were so busy	21:38
AakashPatel	:\|	21:38
luke-jr	WTF AakashPatel	21:38
mikhas	VB together with .Net cant be that bad runs	21:38
luke-jr	mikhas: -5 + -10 = -15	21:38
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LuciusMa1e	oh dear,VB together with .NET?	21:38
AakashPatel	How do they expect us to buy crap if they dont answer thier phoen calls	21:39
luke-jr	AakashPatel: you're in the wrong chanel. everyone here buys their crap despite how much it sucks	21:39
luke-jr	<.<	21:39
AakashPatel	Haha I already bought my N900	21:39
AakashPatel	I just want to know when it'll ship	21:39
mikhas	it makes total sense, luke-jr. only your math teachers were wrong, back in school =p	21:39
luke-jr	see, my point exactly\	21:39
woglinde	args what a mess kvm and qemu are now conflicting in debian unstable	21:39
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AakashPatel	hahaha good point	21:40
mikhas	oh wait, I think I didnt get it	21:40
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luke-jr	mikhas: -5 (VB) + -10 (.NET) = -15 (VB and .NET)	21:40
luke-jr	two bad things combined make a worse thing	21:40
mikhas	ah	21:40
woglinde	g	21:41
luke-jr	actually kinda funny point:	21:41
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luke-jr	the main feature of VB6 was that it compiled to native code instead of P-code.	21:41
lardman	multiple the bad things instead then	21:41
luke-jr	the main feature of VB.NET is that it compiled to P-code instead of native code... ;)	21:41
lardman	s/multiple/multiply	21:41
mikhas	lardman, brilliant!	21:41
mikhas	I knew it was good!	21:42
lardman	luke-jr: it can be compiled to native can't it?	21:42
LuciusMa1e	The pee code?	21:42
luke-jr	lardman: can .NET be compiled to native? not AFAIK, but I have never wanted to get anywhere near that crap	21:42
lardman	VB 6.0 is compiled to P-code or Native, depending on your project choices	21:43
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lardman	and I use VB 6.0, as engineering hw producers don't tend to update their drivers :)	21:43
johnsq	Hi	21:43
luke-jr	lardman: uh, that's what I said...	21:44
luke-jr	lardman: VB6's main feature was its native target, yet that was removed in .NET	21:44
lardman	ah I see	21:44
lardman	missed it, sorry	21:44
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* lardman wonders why he's doing day job at nearly 8pm		21:44
aSIMULAtor	a mug i found at nokia: http://www.flickr.com/photos/asimulator/4146476433/	21:44
mikhas	interesting, I thought windows programming would be easier with .Net?	21:45
woglinde	lardman g	21:45
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luke-jr	mikhas: fail	21:45
* mikhas has no clue about windows programming		21:45
luke-jr	I use C and Qt4 for all my Windows programming, tyvm	21:45
luke-jr	and I don't touch Windows at any part of the development process	21:45
luke-jr	leave that for the testers...	21:45
lardman	what do you write?	21:46
VDVsx	luke-jr, c and Qt4, why not c++ ?	21:46
woglinde	hm lol	21:46
luke-jr	VDVsx: because Windows lacks sane C++ support?	21:46
woglinde	how qt works with c	21:46
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woglinde	thats intressting	21:46
luke-jr	besides, C is better than C++ usually	21:46
luke-jr	and when it isn't, Qt4 is better	21:46
woglinde	??????? o.O	21:47
mikhas	woglinde, I think C and Qt have a lot more in common than Qt and c++, now that I made my first steps =)	21:47
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woglinde	oo?	21:47
luke-jr	C and Qt4 are two different languages..	21:47
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mikhas	I can actually understand luke-jr's reasoning	21:47
julianoliver	luke-jr: this is ideal, up until you have to deal with the Win32 COM or other weird abstractions over hardware and low level bits	21:47
woglinde	whth you are talking about	21:47
lardman	C++ is indeed horrible in Windows, hence my using VB for this	21:47
julianoliver	agreed.	21:47
mikhas	woglinde, the Qt guys seem to have stripped C++ from some of its uglier parts, to make it easier to pick up	21:47
woglinde	after moc its c++	21:48
mikhas	e.g., their preference for pointers, instead of references in the API => more C-like programming, IMHO	21:48
mikhas	I dont look at generated c++ code	21:48
luke-jr	Qt is to C++ what C++ is to C	21:48
luke-jr	C++ originated as a preprocessor to C too	21:48
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lardman	GUIs are all rubbish anyway	21:50
woglinde	lardman g	21:50
paroneayea	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture	21:50
paroneayea	Mission Control is marked as proprietary here	21:50
Flandry	hehe	21:50
paroneayea	but that appears to be incorrect?	21:50
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* lardman wonders if 2^31 will be enough characters for his variable length string		21:51
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woglinde	lardman lol	21:51
* julianoliver blinks		21:51
luke-jr	lardman: you're allocating 2 GB for a variable length string?	21:52
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julianoliver	lardman: your string is War and Peace?	21:52
unixSnob	i thought Qt was a C++ library	21:52
lardman	touch and go, probably a bit less than that	21:52
lardman	well no, I need to pass a 3D short array and looks like winsock won't accept arrays, so convert to string, etc	21:53
lardman	anyway, will be less that 1GB I imagine, so should be fine	21:53
luke-jr	unixSnob: not quite, it's a new language	21:54
woglinde	unixsnob yes	21:54
luke-jr	unixSnob: currently implemented in C++ to some extent	21:54
woglinde	but it runs a praeproc called moc before	21:54
luke-jr	and backward compatible with C++ mostly	21:54
luke-jr	Qt4 is a C++ library if C++ is a C library ;)	21:54
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AakashPatel	k	21:55
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AakashPatel	erm wrong iwndow lol	21:56
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mikedg-blau	can i develop for maemo on my n900?	22:09
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mece	mikedg-blau, yes you can. Or so says lcuk, who has been doing it since he got it.	22:10
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mece	mikedg-blau, I haven't tried it, since the N900's I use belong to my workplace. I will when I get my own at the end of the week though.	22:11
mikedg-blau	where did you order from	22:11
mikedg-blau	amazon seems to have a nice deal	22:11
* timeless_mbp frowns		22:12
timeless_mbp	how does Section: work in debian control files? :)	22:12
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mikedg-blau	im the best developer for android, you guys would do well to have me developer for maemo, i will appreciate any amounts of money for a n900	22:12
Jaffa	mikedg-blau: write an app, ask for donations. probably doesn't work the other way around ;-)	22:13
GAN900	lol	22:13
mikedg-blau	ive written many for Android	22:13
lcuk	mikedg-blau, Jaffa is the best maemo developer, he will appreciate any amounts of money, because well hes a whore	22:13
mikedg-blau	perhaps you've heard of "I am Richer" or "Melon"	22:13
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: it's just a string. HAM uses it	22:13
Jaffa	mikedg-blau: nope	22:14
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: yeah, but i was using it in Source:	22:14
timeless_mbp	it seems that while i can do that, i really want it in the Package: sections	22:14
Jaffa	lcuk: damn straight. I'll do owt for cash	22:14
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timeless_mbp	otherwise my helper packages appear in the ui :(	22:14
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: yup	22:14
* timeless_mbp fixes		22:14
lcuk	mikedg-blau, if you wrote "i am richer" why havent everyone bought your software and made you a millionare?	22:14
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: are there handy variables available?	22:14
timeless_mbp	like i have Package: A	22:14
timeless_mbp	and Package: B	22:14
Jaffa	mikedg-blau: My main schtick I use when talking about Maemo is selfishness and how that's why I do stuff	22:15
pH5	hej Jaffa, what do you think would be the best way to distribute maemo specific vala bindings? include them with the vala package, or create an extra maemo-vala package? (hildon-notify, libhildondesktop, libhildonmime etc.)	22:15
* lbt like's OSS ... it's free :)		22:15
Jaffa	timeless_mbp: nope, although you could run cpp over the control file before packaging, I guess.	22:15
mikedg-blau	lcuk: the economy is bad	22:16
AakashPatel	LOL mikedg-blau you actually are taking my adivce?	22:16
lcuk	so rename it "i am poor" and sell it for a buck a piece	22:16
Jaffa	pH5: Not sure. Upstream vala has shipped Hildon to date. I'd think a vala-hildon package would make sense tho	22:16
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mikedg-blau	whats with the funky keyboard	22:17
lcuk	whats wrong with the funky keyboard	22:17
timeless_mbp	Package-A has a Depends: B	22:18
timeless_mbp	but i'd like it to have Depends: B (>= ${package-version})	22:18
timeless_mbp	which package-version is the latest version in the debian/changelog	22:18
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timeless_mbp	mikedg-blau: this is #maemo not #twenty-questions-about-the-n900-hardware-design	22:18
timeless_mbp	but the keyboard is just a bunch of buttons, roughly 3x13 (with one button in the bottom row spanning two positions)	22:18
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pH5	Jaffa: so you're not very interested in keeping patches in vala mud that don't go upstream? (for example upstream doesn't seem to be very interested in libconic bindings).	22:18
timeless_mbp	you can make the buttons do whatever you like	22:19
timeless_mbp	pH5: perhaps because conic is junk? :)	22:19
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mikedg-blau	can i remape the keys on the n900 so that v and b are space?	22:20
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pH5	timeless_mbp: junk as in "we have to live with it on n900", or junk as in "don't use it, even there"?	22:20
AakashPatel	..then where are you going to get the v an b keys?	22:20
AakashPatel	:P	22:20
mikedg-blau	space	22:20
lcuk	didnt you know, vb is dead	22:20
mikedg-blau	left side of space and right side of space	22:20
timeless_mbp	mikedg-blau: you could	22:20
mikedg-blau	well, vbnm would all shuffle over	22:21
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mikedg-blau	so i guess n and m would be space	22:21
timeless_mbp	but the space key is one key	22:21
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mikedg-blau	is the maemo sms app open source?	22:22
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AakashPatel	the OS is opensource	22:22
AakashPatel	:P	22:22
mikedg-blau	does maemo give sexing?	22:22
AakashPatel	only on fridays	22:22
Venomrush	hmm just noticed some issues with opening PDF files > 1mb	22:22
mikedg-blau	venom: on maemo, or in general ?	22:22
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Venomrush	maemo	22:23
timeless_mbp	so you're going to have to use space and shift-space	22:23
timeless_mbp	and then getting an uppercase letter will be hard	22:23
timeless_mbp	you could use fn-space	22:23
timeless_mbp	note that bn is the center of the keuyboard, roughly	22:23
timeless_mbp	mikedg-blau: there's a web page that lists what's open and what's closed	22:23
timeless_mbp	please do us a favor and go find it	22:23
timeless_mbp	if you can't find it, you're not really whatever enough to be worth spending our time	22:23
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mikedg-blau	ok	22:23
rashed2020	"." is punctuation. The enter key is not.	22:23
Jaffa	pH5: I don't mind either way. Less overhead for patches to be in vala, I guess :)	22:23
Venomrush	does anyone have any pdf file that's > 1mb?	22:24
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Venomrush	i got some but prefer not to share it around as it contains confidential info	22:24
timeless_mbp	Venomrush: i was going to suggest the userguide	22:24
timeless_mbp	but the copyright file is 1/4 mb	22:24
timeless_mbp	and the userguide doesn't seem to be on my device	22:24
Venomrush	the user guide on the device is in .html	22:25
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mikedg-blau	im out boondongles!	22:25
mikedg-blau	ciao	22:25
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AakashPatel	finally :)	22:25
mece	whoa. that was bonkers!	22:26
Jaffa	Meh, we were all newbies once	22:26
timeless_mbp	from memory the maemo sdk docs are available as pdf's	22:26
GeneralAntilles	lol	22:26
Jaffa	of course	22:26
GeneralAntilles	Google was quite revealing about that guy.	22:26
Jaffa	...we weren't all INSAAANE	22:26
mece	jaffa, well yea, but not all of us are douches...	22:26
SpeedEvil	Venomrush: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/am3517	22:26
GeneralAntilles	mece, hey speak for yourself! :P	22:26
mece	GeneralAntilles, well some of us were. I wasn't speaking of myself :D	22:27
AakashPatel	WHO INSANE	22:27
luke-jr	u	22:27
AakashPatel	>.<	22:27
timeless_mbp	Venomrush: so, pdf's vary	22:27
* Jaffa and I aren't. Oh no; the voices tell us so.		22:27
SpeedEvil	Venomrush: or for a 120m one - http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/B092/digikey.pdf	22:27
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Venomrush	i think im gonna put n900 user guide and test it	22:28
Venomrush	at the moment	22:28
Venomrush	i cannot open any pdf files bigger than 1mb	22:28
lcuk	Jaffa, need i get the photo of you actually looking as insane as that rant	22:28
Venomrush	its either tells me to 'enter a password' which the pdf file doesn't have any	22:28
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	22:28
Ceron^	http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.17230	22:28
Venomrush	or it says 'file corrupted'	22:28
Ceron^	what kind of other purpouse than illegal card copying can that device be used for..	22:29
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Jaffa	lcuk: best not!	22:29
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* Jaffa heads back to the scary real world		22:29
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kalikiana	Midori is in extras devel ^_^	22:30
kalikiana	Please try it out, anyone who is interested	22:30
qwerty12_N900	kalikiana: Sweet	22:30
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julianoliver	kalikiana: what is Midori? sounds familiar.	22:31
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kalikiana	julianoliver, a webkit based browser	22:31
qwerty12_N900	WebKit goodness	22:31
julianoliver	ahah. cheers. will explore.	22:31
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SpeedEvil	Ceron^: ideally nothing	22:31
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SpeedEvil	Ceron^: Anyone using that sort of card for secure apps deserves all they get	22:32
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mece	kalikiana, is it risky to install?	22:33
archebyte	venomrush: the User Guide opens smoothly.. Its 4.5mb	22:34
kalikiana	mece, you risk becoming addicted. :-)	22:34
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Venomrush	what the hell	22:35
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Venomrush	user guide works	22:35
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Venomrush	hmmm	22:35
mece	kalikiana, yes naturally. I've been waiting for it, and have a couple of N900's at the office, but since they aren't really _my_ phones, I don't want to mess them up too badly...	22:35
Venomrush	archebyte PM pls	22:35
mece	hmm that one could have used some actual punctuation...	22:35
Vink	Hi	22:36
Vink	I have a question	22:36
qwerty12_N900	kalikiana: Is it actually in extras-devel's Packages file?	22:36
Vink	How is the Nokia telepathy different from Google Desktop Gadgets?	22:36
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mece	wtf is google desktop gadgets?	22:36
kalikiana	qwerty12_N900, I got the confirmation that it should be. Unless it's still pending some kind of missing update	22:36
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* kalikiana checks again		22:37
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qwerty12_N900	kalikiana: An OK from the autobuilder doesn't mean it's imported into the repo right away	22:37
qwerty12_N900	kalikiana: Hell, extras-devel is slow as shit nowadays	22:37
kalikiana	Hrm.. apt indeed doesn't know it :-(	22:38
Flandry	could someone with an N900 please check if /dev/uinput exists, and its permissions?	22:38
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SpeedEvil	It does not Flandry	22:38
qwerty12_N900	Flandry: Doesn't exist	22:39
Flandry	is it at /dev/input/uinput?	22:39
SpeedEvil	/dev/input/uinput crw-rw---- 1 root root 10, 223 Jan 1 1970 uinput	22:39
Flandry	awesome thank	22:39
Flandry	s	22:39
mece	Vink, I found Google desktop and google gadgets, none of which have any similarities with telepathy afaik. Am I missing something?	22:40
timeless_mbp_	wow	22:41
timeless_mbp_	LHR Terminal 2 closed	22:41
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SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp_: Aliens?	22:43
timeless_mbp_	?	22:43
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SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp_: The confiscation of liquid containers is now revealed to be a plot, because over 100ml of liquid could be dangerous to the desert-dwelling creatures come to suck peoples minds!	22:43
GeneralAntilles	Christ	22:44
GeneralAntilles	That Red Pill thread is ridiculous	22:44
GeneralAntilles	They've been going back and forth over a question that was answered on page 1.	22:44
andre__	URL?	22:44
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LuciusMa1e	I am on a dilema - moving 8 windows from desktop number three to desktop number one where my terminal with irssi is - but that would take a lot of time,or moving the terminal to desktop number three thus violating my desktop standards,i keep all fun at number one.	22:44
Vink	mece, I think google gadgets are just UI widgets that could be written by anyone, and available for anyone to use	22:44
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=401434&posted=1#post401434	22:45
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Myrtti	http://g0.fi/1gd oo	22:45
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timeless_mbp_	LuciusMa1e: what kind of boat or plane is a dilemma? <http://www.answers.com/dilemma>	22:46
SpeedEvil	Clearly a biplane.	22:46
SpeedEvil	Made from lemmings.	22:46
timeless_mbp_	GeneralAntilles: we really could have changed the apt cache to use the mmc	22:47
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp_, indeed.	22:47
LuciusMa1e	timeless_mbp_: dilemma: * state of uncertainty or perplexity especially as requiring a choice between equally unfavorable options - I can either violate my standards or spend some time at moving	22:48
timeless_mbp_	LuciusMa1e: dilemmas aren't platforms	22:48
SpeedEvil	ITYM 'on the horns of a dilemma'	22:48
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GeneralAntilles	http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5746	22:48
povbot	Bug 5746: symlink /var/cache/apt/archives to /home/apt-archives	22:48
timeless_mbp_	you're never on dilemmas	22:48
timeless_mbp_	you can be on a boat	22:48
mece	Vink, so what were you asking about then? Telepathy is a communications framework, google gadgets is not.	22:49
timeless_mbp_	GeneralAntilles: i'm tempted to provide a package which deals w/ that	22:50
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fnordianslip	Hmm. The mail client running on my N900 doesn't seem to be 'marking as read' emails I read on it, from my IMAP server (mac.com). I really thought it had been doing it before, but I could be mistaken, as it was mostly stuff I read and deleted, whereas now, I'm not doing the deleting. Any comments?	22:51
timeless_mbp_	fnordianslip: i've heard rumor that modest has logging you can turn on	22:51
timeless_mbp_	i'd suggest turning it on	22:51
lcuk	fnordianslip, check the bugzill (bugs.maemo.org) and see if its either noticed or cured or whatnot	22:51
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* qwerty12_N900 would suggest not using Modest but, alas, where's the alternatives?		22:52
timeless_mbp_	gmail :)	22:52
fnordianslip	i just wondered if others are getting their mail "marked as read" on IMAP servers?	22:52
lcuk	gmail works better in html mode	22:52
timeless_mbp_	yes	22:52
lcuk	but then at home its in yucky format	22:52
timeless_mbp_	gmail /x or /h	22:52
lcuk	so its not ideal	22:52
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: Indeed, that's the mode I use it in on the N900	22:52
lcuk	ahh timeless theres an alternative link to just use html from specific client?	22:53
timeless_mbp_	https://mail.google.com/mail/h/	22:53
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timeless_mbp_	https://mail.google.com/mail/x/	22:53
timeless_mbp_	https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1	22:53
timeless_mbp_	https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2	22:53
fnordianslip	i just wish modest wasn't so unfortunately named	22:53
lcuk	that doesnt roll off the tongue as easy as typing gmail into address bar lol	22:53
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lcuk	thanks timeless	22:54
lcuk	will bookmark it	22:54
timeless_mbp_	fnordianslip: unfortunately?	22:54
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dieg	hi all	22:54
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dieg	Ive a fast question	22:54
lcuk	no	22:54
jeremiah	lcuk: You're not a greeter are you?	22:54
jeremiah	:P	22:55
fnordianslip	well, it seems ironic, that's all. it needs to be modest, as it has nothing to shout about :)	22:55
dieg	I have a brand new N900 and the mic is not working	22:55
lcuk	jeremiah, you can tell?	22:55
lcuk	:O dieg	22:55
timeless_mbp	fnordianslip: that isn't irony	22:55
crashanddie	dieg: you're in spain?	22:55
dieg	yes	22:55
fnordianslip	it is. ask alanis!	22:55
timeless_mbp	i'd call it "fitting"	22:55
crashanddie	dieg: did you buy it in the UK?	22:55
jeremiah	heh	22:55
range	I'd call it humble.	22:55
dieg	nop	22:55
fnordianslip	lol	22:55
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timeless_mbp	we could call it apt [ly named]	22:55
dieg	from nokia spain online shop	22:56
timeless_mbp	but that'd confuse people	22:56
fnordianslip	"better than nothing"	22:56
fnordianslip	call it btn	22:56
range	Oh. It is much better than the first maemo mail client.	22:56
range	Much much better.	22:56
dieg	anybody knows something? Is it a software or a hardware error?	22:56
crashanddie	dieg: there are a lot of reports of this happening	22:56
lcuk	dieg there is a thread on talk.maemo.ogr about this	22:56
range	dieg: There are some discussions about that on talk.maemo.org	22:57
crashanddie	dieg: well, "a lot" because some people are very vocal about it	22:57
mikhas	dieg, can be both. one thread on t.m.o suggests it is software only, some interference with bluetooth or so	22:57
* range nuknuks crashanddie		22:57
dieg	And is there any solution?	22:57
lcuk	crashanddie, you stateside?	22:57
crashanddie	aye	22:57
crashanddie	having lunch	22:57
lcuk	dieg, follow the thread on talk.maemo.org and see what people do ive been too caught up in other things to notice much.	22:57
lcuk	hope you get it cured tho	22:58
dieg	ok	22:58
lcuk	wicked crashanddie	22:58
dieg	thanks lcuk :)	22:58
lcuk	crashanddie, you say a few vocal people. how can they be vocal if their mic doesnt work	22:58
qwerty12_N900	dieg: One word: nuknuk. The most whiniest guy in the world	22:58
archebyte	true that...	22:59
crashanddie	lcuk: that's my point, they're so vocal they don't actually need a mic	22:59
mikhas	dieg, for me pushing the mic toggle button (the mic icon) when making a call solves it	22:59
dieg	mikhas, pushing? to silence the mic?	22:59
* lcuk willhave to readup about this		23:00
* qwerty12_N900 laughs at his pre-prod working better than some final devices		23:00
crashanddie	dieg: yeah, turn it off and on again	23:00
mikhas	so I would try to: A) switch off wifi + bluetooth, B) press the mic toggle button a few times =)	23:00
t_s_o	heh, first time i have seen that. eggtimer alarm triggered, and the N800 rebooted...	23:00
qwerty12_N900	Perks of having it made in Finland, not Korea, I guess	23:00
mece	the two devices I got today both worked perfectly fine...	23:00
crashanddie	qwerty12_N900: pre-prod wasn't made in finland	23:00
mikhas	it's stupid, I know. but it gives me hope that it is a software bug only =)	23:00
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qwerty12_N900	crashanddie: The label on the back of mine says otherwise	23:00
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crashanddie	qwerty12_N900: only to go around EU lawas	23:01
crashanddie	s/was/ws/	23:01
infobot	crashanddie meant: qwerty12_N900: only to go around EU laws	23:01
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fnordianslip	lcuk: thanks for bugzilla tip on my modest issue. bug 2987 explains all.	23:02
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2987 Does not always mark e-mails as read (dovecot/cyrus/google IMAP server)	23:02
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lcuk	:) yw fnordianslip	23:02
* lcuk understands bugzilla importance now :)		23:02
crashanddie	"fnordianslip", is that like the northern counterpart of freudian slip?	23:02
Arkenoi	is U.S. model really identical to european one? it is listed as "optimized for for WCDMA 900/1700/2100" (instead of 850/1900/2100)	23:02
* lcuk kicks liqbase tho		23:02
fnordianslip	its the discordian counterpart	23:03
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crashanddie	Arkenoi: they're not identical	23:03
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GeneralAntilles	Arkenoi, the radios are.	23:04
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dieg	perfect, 600€ mobile without mic...	23:06
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julianoliver	these n900 screens get filthy. luckily it's resistive so you can use stylus or fingernail..	23:07
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lcuk	julianoliver, they show worse on white backgrounds	23:09
* lcuk prefers black screens		23:09
Myrtti	dieg: warranty	23:09
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dieg	3 months waiting for a phone and now it's broken?	23:10
mece	black is the new black... and the old black, and the current black. So yeah, Black.	23:10
dieg	a 600€ phone... broken?	23:10
lcuk	dieg :(	23:10
mece	dieg, that sucks :/	23:10
javispedro	Phones break, all the time.	23:10
dieg	and now what? another month to get a working phone?	23:10
javispedro	Internet Tablets, on the other side... >:)	23:10
mikhas	dieg, have to tried toggling the mic?	23:10
range	dieg: No, they should have them in stock now at nokia.	23:11
dieg	mikhas, toggling the mic, disabling the wifi and bluettoth	23:11
mikhas	damn	23:11
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mikhas	the last resort would be removing the battery for ~1h	23:12
dieg	removing the battery? what is the science in that?	23:13
zaheerm	remove all capictance stored in the capacitors	23:13
zaheerm	capacitance even	23:13
GeneralAntilles	dieg, consumer electronics have failure rates.	23:13
GeneralAntilles	No surprise there.	23:13
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GeneralAntilles	dieg, did you reflash?	23:14
GeneralAntilles	~flashing	23:14
infobot	rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	23:14
dieg	reflash solves anithing?	23:14
GeneralAntilles	Dunno, but it can't hurt.	23:14
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Flandry	what's in /lib/udev/rules.d on N900? Is this documented somewhere?	23:15
mece	oh fer fracks sake. Again with the twitterfail :/	23:16
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mece	Why the hell is it "big news" that there will only be one new maemo device 2010?	23:17
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javispedro	massive ignorance on maemo by the general public?	23:17
dieg	GeneralAntilles, what image?	23:17
GeneralAntilles	dieg, the one for your locale?	23:17
ShadowJK	I doubt there will be even one :D	23:17
dieg	GeneralAntilles, very clever, thanks	23:17
dieg	:)	23:17
mece	ShadowJK, how so?	23:17
mikhas	ah yes, reflashing ... actually, that's quite easy, and GA already gave you the link	23:18
returnthis	I realize this is not the place but I have never dealt with nokia before, is their customer support always this bad? cancelled my preorder of the n900 and 40min+ wait time on phone so far	23:18
GeneralAntilles	dieg, I can't guess what your options are.	23:18
AakashPatel	How do you get into the bootloader of the n900	23:18
returnthis	they cancelled my preorder	23:18
GeneralAntilles	dieg, based on zero information I'm giving you the best answer I happen to have at the moment.	23:18
crashanddie	mece: because everyone is hyped of the number of devices that android has seen being announced?	23:18
AakashPatel	dude redondos are you talkin about Nokia USA?	23:18
AakashPatel	returnthis*	23:18
Myrtti	returnthis: you ordered it from their webshop?	23:18
returnthis	AakashPatel: yes	23:18
mece	crashanddie, people still care about that pong stuff?	23:19
GeneralAntilles	returnthis, Nokia USA is absolutely horid.	23:19
AakashPatel	They are soooo understaffed	23:19
GeneralAntilles	returnthis, and the webstore is handled through a 3rd party.	23:19
GeneralAntilles	Which is worse.	23:19
crashanddie	AakashPatel: lunch time	23:19
AakashPatel	I couldnt even get to a sales agent about a quetion	23:19
dieg	thank you GeneralAntilles, seriously	23:19
AakashPatel	crashanddie: I called at like 2 pm their time	23:19
returnthis	AakashPatel: so nokiausa != nokia ?	23:19
crashanddie	AakashPatel: lunch time	23:19
GeneralAntilles	dieg, sarcasmdar fail?	23:19
AakashPatel	o.O	23:19
AakashPatel	how long is lunch time	23:19
* timeless_mbp needs to call someone again		23:19
ShadowJK	mece, considering that some parts of the world will get 0 maemo5 devices in 2009 ;)	23:19
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crashanddie	AakashPatel: 24 hours a day, but you need to take into account solar drift	23:19
dieg	GeneralAntilles, no sarcasm here :)	23:20
crashanddie	AakashPatel: which can make it vary between 24 and 24 hours	23:20
johnsq	ShadowJK: :9	23:20
GeneralAntilles	dieg, ah, apologies, then.	23:20
AakashPatel	...confusing sets in	23:20
AakashPatel	...confusion*	23:20
Myrtti	returnthis: Nokia hasn't been on the direct retail market for that long, most of their sales have gone through third parties, and I'd assume this quite recent decision to sell directly to consumers has seriously left them understaffed, or whatever company they've offshored the service to	23:20
crashanddie	confusing confusion?	23:20
GeneralAntilles	dieg, the hordes of entitled, rude, and unpleasant new people lately have thrown off my calibration. :)	23:20
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mece	ShadowJK, heh right. Still, shouldn't be long before one of those fancy (read pointless) slim keyboardless ones will appear I should think.	23:20
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dieg	:)	23:21
returnthis	Myrtti: ok. so in other words I am screwed.	23:21
AakashPatel	They're STILL busy	23:21
dieg	I'm running and amd64 Debian, I home i386 flasher works	23:21
mece	returnthis, well screwed, or at least stuck with dealing with crappy service.	23:21
crashanddie	dieg: me home english 2	23:21
AakashPatel	returnthis: Did you get a refund?	23:21
mece	LOL	23:21
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dieg	ouch	23:22
Myrtti	returnthis: no, you just need to be persistant	23:22
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dieg	s/home/hope	23:22
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returnthis	AakashPatel: I have no idea if they charged me or not.	23:22
AakashPatel	They probably didn't	23:22
AakashPatel	Just reorder it	23:22
AakashPatel	And if they did charge you, decline it	23:22
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mece	OH noes! the sdk installer added desktop shortcuts! The horror!	23:23
lbt	desktop?	23:23
qwerty12_N900	mece: Use the text-based one, then. The GUI one... Ha	23:23
mece	qwerty12_N900, yes. I've learned my lesson now...	23:23
AakashPatel	bahaha still a busy signal	23:24
AakashPatel	way to go nokia	23:24
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Flandry	how is security handled on N900. Is it just assumed that only the user will be able to access it?	23:26
mece	not really	23:27
returnthis	it is truly shocking how bad nokia is	23:27
returnthis	I wish the freerunner didn't suck	23:27
AakashPatel	returnthis: Their support	23:27
dieg	erasing CMT...	23:27
AakashPatel	their products are fine	23:27
returnthis	I am sending them a bill for my time	23:28
mece	Flandry, works pretty much like a regular debian box once you've added some users.	23:28
Flandry	added some users?	23:28
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Flandry	do you create a password and account when you receive it?	23:28
mece	Flandry, with the actual device there is no security outofbox, unfortunately	23:29
Flandry	I'm trying to figure out the relative merits of adding user to a group and making a file group writeable vs just making it all writeable	23:29
mece	Flandry, only for remote accessing	23:29
mece	Flandry, well if you have the ssh server...	23:29
Flandry	?	23:30
mece	Flandry, there doesn't seem to be any user handling in the UI	23:30
Flandry	my app needs access to /dev/uinput, which is 0660. I could change the udev rule to 0666 or add the user to a group and set uinput to that group	23:31
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mece	Flandry, many apps seem to have their own user	23:31
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Flandry	their own "user"? oO	23:31
mece	Flandry, err	23:32
AakashPatel	uhmm	23:32
javispedro	accesing dbus? couldn't you use xtest?	23:32
mece	Flandry, I don't have the device atm, so I can't look at it. Ok not apps,	23:32
javispedro	er.. dbus. I mean uinput	23:32
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RST38h	ah, hello javis	23:32
Flandry	xtest?	23:32
javispedro	hello RST38h	23:32
Flandry	let me see...	23:32
javispedro	Flandry: xtest is used for injecting fake events into X11	23:32
javispedro	may not be what you want...	23:32
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Flandry	oh	23:33
javispedro	but it can be used as nonroot	23:33
Flandry	not really	23:33
* lcuk buys everyone a beer		23:33
RST38h	Good use for Lenovo notebooks: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/11/500x_lenovo-test1.jpg	23:33
lcuk	(except for javispedro :p)	23:33
Flandry	i have an accelerometer joystick driver	23:33
Flandry	it uses uinput	23:33
javispedro	lcuk: thanks :)	23:33
dieg	reflashed: mic not working	23:33
mikhas	ah crap	23:33
lcuk	ok, is this a software problem	23:34
dieg	really good impression of Nokia's flagship	23:34
lcuk	i heard mention up there about press button and release	23:34
mikhas	lcuk, can be both	23:34
Flandry	1000 brownie points for anyone who can find the udev rule on N900 that handles uinput :/	23:34
lcuk	i mean now in diegs case	23:34
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mikhas	I can solve mine with above procedure	23:34
mikhas	others ... cannot	23:34
lcuk	so you also have this issue?	23:34
dieg	lcuk, what button? this thing is full of buttons	23:34
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lcuk	has bug been filed	23:35
AakashPatel	dieg: What do you mean	23:35
lcuk	dieg, in the phone call ui	23:35
lcuk	there is a mute button	23:35
cosmo	does mer run on n900?	23:35
AakashPatel	dieg: really good impression of Nokia's flagship	23:35
Flandry	gah	23:35
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lbt	cosmo: yes	23:35
cosmo	the status page doesn't mention 900	23:35
dieg	lcuk, toggling mic during call doesn't solve it	23:35
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Flandry	trying to develop for this on the SDK is a joke :P	23:35
qwerty12_N900	Flandry: /etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules	23:35
lcuk	mikhas, which bug is it saved as	23:35
lcuk	:( dieg thats rly unfortunate	23:36
Flandry	qwerty12_N900: thanks, what's it say?	23:36
qwerty12_N900	Flandry: Found in the aptly named "udev" package =)	23:36
dieg	I'm really disappointed	23:36
dieg	I can't believe this is a hardware problem	23:36
mikhas	lcuk, no idea if there is already one. I only skimmed through that one t.m.o thread yesterday	23:36
Flandry	it's not in kubuntu	23:36
dieg	Not in a 600€ Nokia phone	23:37
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AakashPatel	Are many poeple experiencing a mic problem?	23:37
qwerty12_N900	Flandry: Sorry, too tired to pastebin	23:37
qwerty12_N900	Flandry: Look in the SDK, of course	23:37
lcuk	mikhas, then could you go onto bugs.maemo.org and see if there is a specific bug about the mic	23:37
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lcuk	there bloody well should be by now	23:37
dieg	AakashPatel, at least me!	23:37
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AakashPatel	There's awhole thread on TMO	23:37
dieg	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35075	23:37
dieg	I know	23:37
AakashPatel	Yep	23:37
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qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: Plus a shitton of posts in unrelated threads thanks to nuknuk	23:38
* AakashPatel hopes his doesnt have it		23:38
dieg	but there isn't solution	23:38
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GeneralAntilles	dieg, where'd you order from?	23:38
AakashPatel	qwerty12_N900: Is there any moderation going on?	23:38
dieg	Nokia Spain Shop GeneralAntilles	23:38
dieg	ordered 3/09	23:38
javispedro	ah	23:38
AakashPatel	o.O	23:38
AakashPatel	dieg: 3/09???	23:38
dieg	and now: hardware error	23:38
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qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: Some, but the game really needs stepping up	23:38
Flandry	hmm it is there alright, just doesn't do anything	23:38
dieg	3rd Sep	23:39
AakashPatel	qwerty12_N900: Seriously	23:39
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AakashPatel	The N900 has 2 mic?	23:39
AakashPatel	s	23:39
* lcuk will be speaking to people in barcelona about reining the fora in		23:39
returnthis	wait. are they actually delivering n900?	23:39
qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: For example, there was this guy named "God". Guy was whining about how he should leave. People voted yes. He then proceeded to make Talk popup dialogs using JS. Reggie gave him a 10 day ban	23:40
Flandry	haha	23:40
lcuk	yes and they are being used happily by the majority	23:40
qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: not even a perm. one	23:40
Flandry	rein in the fauna while you're at it	23:40
returnthis	so if I cancel my preorder and order it, I won't lose my place. it will just be shipped	23:40
javispedro	and then he came back.	23:40
lcuk	qwerty12_N900, really come on, you cannot ban god forever	23:40
lcuk	you dont know the repurcussions	23:40
javispedro	yes you can	23:40
javispedro	it's very easy actually	23:40
javispedro	just stop praying for your n900 to arrive	23:41
woglinde	lol	23:41
AakashPatel	qwerty12_N900: Start a moderation thread ;)	23:41
* timeless_mbp looks for testers		23:41
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: Note I used quote marks?	23:41
dieg	So, this is a hardware problem	23:42
dieg	so, tomorrow I'll call nokia care	23:42
qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: I nominate you to be the first poster in i	23:42
qwerty12_N900	t	23:42
dieg	I want another N900 by this friday	23:42
javispedro	go extort it for someone.	23:42
AakashPatel	qwerty12_N900: Haha to make the thread?	23:42
javispedro	s/for/from :)	23:42
RST38h	What? God is back?	23:43
qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: Sure. I'll put my vote down for you	23:43
javispedro	RST38h: in a sense, he was never gone.	23:43
mece	RST38h, yes.	23:43
qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: (and then proceed to take a shitload of medication afterwards)	23:43
AakashPatel	Okay sweet, i'll write one up tomorrow even after my n900 (hopefully arrives)	23:43
Flandry	i remember seeings something about the policy of using "maemo" in app names. Link anyone?	23:43
AakashPatel	qwerty12_N900: Tynonol ftw	23:44
mikhas	lcuk, there is https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6455	23:44
povbot	Bug 6455: Mic doesn't work after a full charge with standard n900 charger	23:44
AakashPatel	qwerty12_N900: what section should i put it in	23:44
javispedro	Flandry: "maemo packing policy"	23:44
qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: Oh, thanks for the tip!	23:44
Flandry	ah thanks	23:44
qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: Dunno, I was joking	23:44
javispedro	Flandry: err, "Maemo Packaging Policy", sorry	23:44
AakashPatel	qwerty12_N900: haha you suck	23:44
mikhas	but from my reading of the t.m.o thread there is more than one thing that can affect the mic though	23:44
RST38h	javispedro: definitely a ban	23:45
mikhas	comment/file more bugs?	23:45
AakashPatel	"qwerty12_N900: AakashPatel: Oh, thanks for the tip!"	23:45
AakashPatel	huh?	23:45
* Flandry has yet to unravel the secrets of searching m.o		23:45
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mikhas	flandry, you cant search	23:45
mikhas	you have to READ =)	23:45
mikhas	well, perhaps google can help with a site search	23:45
Flandry	i've read that several times	23:45
qwerty12_N900	AakashPatel: Tylenol	23:45
AakashPatel	oh haha	23:46
qwerty12_N900	I will dedicate the OD to you	23:46
Flandry	i did a google search and found stuff on the trademark usage	23:46
AakashPatel	hahaha	23:46
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Flandry	but really actually searching m.o is futile	23:46
AakashPatel	How do i boot into the bootloader of the n900	23:46
AakashPatel	If i wanted to reflash it	23:46
nhg	Does anyone know if the N900 uses the DSP for multimedia usecases?	23:46
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mikhas	for some codecs it does	23:47
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dieg	...	23:47
mikhas	not sure about the ogg support though ... havent tried it after reflashing	23:47
woglinde	nhg google for n900 dsp theora h264	23:47
woglinde	and gstreamer	23:47
woglinde	sorry	23:47
dieg	this is a f**** s* !!!!!!	23:47
nhg	mikhas: Do you know if it uses GST-DSP or some other method?	23:48
dieg	I want a working phone!	23:48
dieg	:(	23:48
mikhas	dieg, just turn it in under warranty	23:48
dieg	:''''''''(	23:48
mece	dieg, does xterm work?	23:48
woglinde	nhg gstreamer with omap3 dsp bridge support	23:48
dieg	mikhas, I don't want to wait another month!	23:48
mikhas	nhg, I have no clue	23:48
lcuk	qwerty12_N900, post in the signal to noise thread	23:48
dieg	yes mece	23:48
lcuk	or make a new one	23:48
lcuk	its on brainstorm	23:48
lcuk	theres 33 replies	23:48
lcuk	so it will be heavy going	23:48
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: Don't have time for Brainstorm	23:48
lcuk	it needs a proper brainstorm linking with it	23:48
woglinde	nhg its not the gstreamer stuff from ti directly	23:49
mikhas	dieg, your frustration is understandable, but that's what warranty is for	23:49
nhg	woglinde: do you know if its gst-dsp or gst-openmax?	23:49
woglinde	nhg hm wasnt sure	23:49
mikhas	as a customer, you shouldnt be left behind with a borken device	23:49
mece	dieg, if xterm workm your golden. The rest is just for commercials ;-)	23:49
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woglinde	started with openmax	23:49
pekuja	dieg: there's always a failure rate with complicated devices such as the N900	23:49
woglinde	and now seems gst-dsp is involved	23:49
lcuk	qwerty12_N900, i just started writing a brainstorm thread myself but it was already there.	23:50
woglinde	but I will google for you now	23:50
qwerty12_N900	And?	23:50
lcuk	i wouldv added to the signal/noise ratio myself	23:50
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* lcuk was just about to submit too lol		23:50
dieg	pekuja, the failure rate must be near 0 in devices of such a HIGH cost	23:50
nhg	as I understand gst-dsp is relatively new...so I wonder if its in the released N900 devices.	23:50
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mikhas	dieg, impossible	23:50
javispedro	"Dell Defect Turning 2.2GHz CPU Into 100MHz CPU"	23:50
woglinde	nhg hm its side project	23:51
nhg	so I assume N900 may be using all ARM codecs?	23:51
AakashPatel	Haha javispedro	23:51
qwerty12_N900	javispedro: It's for the people to live out their nostalgic feelings	23:51
pekuja	dieg: the problem is, while it is more expensive, it's also more complicated than most devices	23:52
derf	High failure rates drive UP costs.	23:52
GeneralAntilles	dieg, ask iPhone owners how high their failure rate is. ;)	23:52
pekuja	dieg: so there will be problems	23:52
javispedro	I am sure it's still faster than the N810 pushing video to screen =)	23:52
woglinde	nhg -> http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/	23:52
pekuja	dieg: also, if yours is the only one that's broken, that's still a pretty low failure rate	23:52
dieg	mikhas, I simply can't believe that they didn't test the mic before shipping this device	23:52
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qwerty12_N900	javispedro: Wow. Well played, sir	23:52
mikhas	they did	23:52
mikhas	it works just fine for many others here	23:52
dieg	pekuja, only mine? I think you must know what you are talinkg about before talking	23:53
mikhas	but hardware issues are just that ... hardware issues. you could of course gamble on a software update if it is not hw. but why take that risk?	23:53
woglinde	hm something new on omap2 gles stuff?	23:53
nhg	woglinde: thanks...have seen that link...but was wondering if N900 is actually using it.	23:53
woglinde	nhg not offical	23:53
pekuja	dieg: I don't, but neither do you.	23:53
woglinde	as far as I know	23:53
pekuja	dieg: I haven't heard of other cases like that.	23:53
javispedro	"The problem can be substantially mitigated by pointing an external fan at the system." aah..	23:54
pekuja	dieg: I'm saying you may be exaggarating the situation because your device is broken	23:54
nhg	is there a good place where I can find out which codecs are using the DSP officially on N900?	23:54
dieg	pekuja, ....	23:54
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dieg	pekuja, start reading: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35075	23:54
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javispedro	I wonder how much the battery will last in 100Mhz mode	23:54
lcuk	posted in the s/n thread for kathy	23:54
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javispedro	even though if it's an overheating protection probably not much ..	23:54
* brbrbr warmly greet anyone[except Xenu, maybe ;]		23:55
dieg	pekuja, I repeat: start working and know what your are talking about	23:55
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pekuja	dieg: start working?	23:56
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dieg	oh god	23:56
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javispedro	lcuk: do you seriously want to do something in bcn about tmo's s/n ratio?	23:56
* javispedro will have to remember to bring in the popcorn ;)		23:56
lcuk	no i just want to have a beer with kathy	23:56
javispedro	ah, that's better :)	23:56
qwerty12_N900	javispedro: Does your idea involve guns?	23:56
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andre__	guns? WMD!	23:57
lcuk	if we can do it in an official capacity with an agenda perhaps one of hte nokians present will put bartab on them lol	23:57
qwerty12_N900	Target: Andre's house	23:57
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javispedro	my idea (which I have not published yet) involves stricter moderation with an official set of etiquette rules	23:57
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javispedro	like, an Oct2009er cannot insult a preJun2009er.	23:57
lcuk	i think offtopic posters should have an omg pinies theme locked on their talk pages	23:58
lcuk	it was discussed for trolls on slashdot	23:58
qwerty12_N900	andre__: Thank you :)	23:58
lcuk	omg ponies	23:58
lcuk	gah	23:58
javispedro	mwahaha	23:58
andre__	qwerty12_N900, my house, again? good that I'm in the office currently :)	23:58
mikhas	how is the bugmaster dealing with the flies, andre__?	23:58
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N900 / lcuk : so um... i've updated my translation packages	23:58
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mikhas	eh, wrong channel I guess =p	23:58
andre__	mikhas: all eaten. where are you by the way? on holidays? yeah, probably wrong channel ;-)	23:59
timeless_mbp	sadly the versioning stuff is kinda bad, if you guys could pull in the package updates that'd be great :)	23:59
* sp3000 enjoys the charging magic aspect of the mic thread		23:59
mikhas	lcuk, daily cleansing of the forum db, how is that? at least no one could say you're censoring	23:59
* timeless_mbp goes back to looking at clock		23:59
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: btw, the clock app is awesome in the build i have	23:59
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timeless_mbp	i believe it's the same in the build you have	23:59

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