IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-11-26

timeless_mbpwhich involves doing a network lookup to ovi servers00:00
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timeless_mbpthat part shouldn't be *too* expensive00:00
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timeless_mbphowever *something* in my 3 week trip through eastern europe was *very* expensive00:00
timeless_mbpi'm not quite sure what but my bill was obscene00:00
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timeless_mbpmy bet is that it was being in Ukraine (which isn't an EU member)00:01
mikectimeless_mbp:that would be the blond one00:01
Khertantimeless_mbp: come in france ... where isp block agps data with their stupid proxy00:02
Khertanyou ll not get overpriced bill00:02
Khertanbut you ll be lost00:02
timeless_mbpKhertan: been there, had no problems00:02
Khertanyep right ... depends on isp00:02
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Khertansome allow it00:03
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Khertanbut it s really high priced contract00:03
ShadowJKtimeless, this is cool, it's actually getting cached by the browser00:04
timeless_mbpShadowJK: did you enable disk cache?00:04
mikecjust setup Open SuSE 11.2 with KDE 4 desktop on my macbook pro. Real sweet, gives me lots of comfort on Qt00:04
timeless_mbpiirc you have to do it from about:config00:04
ShadowJKWell no, I was using firefox ;)00:05
timeless_mbpShadowJK: think about it...00:05
timeless_mbpgoogle pays for bandwidth00:05
timeless_mbpand they pay for server hits00:05
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timeless_mbpthey don't want to have to serve the same data to the same clients more than once00:05
timeless_mbpso they will configure caching properly :)00:05
timeless_mbpplus their goal is to have things load in the client app as fast as possible00:06
ShadowJKFor some things, I gues00:06
timeless_mbpa network trip is pretty much the opposite of that :)00:06
timeless_mbpqueries are different :)00:06
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julianolivertimeless_mbp: google maps on the N900 seems to be almost non-functional here. i couldn't, for instance, close the location balloon.00:07
ShadowJKI have 2 caching squid proxies in a chain to alleviate the whims of technology a bit :)00:07
timeless_mbpjulianoliver: did you enable the interaction mode?00:07
timeless_mbpand have you installed the gps addon?00:07
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julianolivertimeless_mbp: no. i wasn't aware of either of these two things.00:07
timeless_mbpjulianoliver: have you watched the maemo ui team videos?00:08
ShadowJKbut it didn't even hit the squids.. alot of sites seem to cause firefox to not use cache, and then the squids think that cached data is still perfectly valid and serves that :D00:08
julianolivertimeless_mbp: admittedly i'd had the phone about an hour when i started using it on the street!00:08
julianolivertimeless_mbp: no i have not.00:08
timeless_mbpi'd suggest you start there00:08
timeless_mbpif you can't find them w/in 2mins, ping me here00:08
julianoliveri will do.00:08
timeless_mbpthat and um. the browser has default bookmarks including one to
timeless_mbpyou should use that one...00:09
ProteousKenYoung, you should be able to ssh from your n900 to your desktop with the x11 forwarding option enabled, and then start the app you want from the commandline and have it forwarded to your desktop over the ssh connection00:09
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ShadowJKtimeless, oh I get it.. I use google maps so rarely that they've changed the URL scheme for the images since last time :)00:10
julianolivertimeless_mbp: thanks for the tips. i will try google maps in the morning.00:10
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timeless_mbpjulianoliver: you'll want to enable disk cache00:11
timeless_mbpif you don't do that, you'll be unhappy with google maps sooner or later00:12
timeless_mbpto do that, about:config and having a firefox to compare it against is a good idea00:12
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madmikeukwell, i'll be off in a second00:16
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KenYoungProteus, so you're saying that to get an N900 shell displayed on my desktop, I should ssh from my N900 to my desktop with X11 forwarding, figure out what the name of the X11 connection is, then with a separate shell on the N900, launch an xterm that will use the X11 tunneling that the client ssh on the N900 established?00:17
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qgilqwerty12_N900: ping00:17
qwerty12_N900qgil: Hiya00:17
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* timeless_mbp wonders what brings qgil out after midnight00:18
ProteousKenYoung: all you want is a terminal to the n900?00:18
Proteousor do you need a gui x11 app?00:18
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crashanddie__GeneralAntilles, I think I went overboard with your "go anti-troll tmo"00:18
* qgil wonders as well what I'm doing still awake timeless_mbp :)00:19
crashanddie__hey qgil, how are you mate?00:19
timeless_mbpbad if he's up past bedtime :(00:19
qgila bit sleepy now, otherwise very well thank you  :)  you?00:19
crashanddie__not too bad, not too bad at all00:19
crashanddie__qgil, it's good you're around, I have a quick question00:19
crashanddie__I'm moving to Australia, how does that impact my loan device agreement?00:20
qwerty12_N900qgil: Hmm, regarding MyPaint?00:20
qgilqwerty12_N900: yes00:20
timeless_mbpcrashanddie__: the cost to return it should go up :)00:20
crashanddie__timeless_mbp, that actually made me smile :)00:20
qgilI think Forum Nokia serves the antipodes as well00:20
timeless_mbpcrashanddie__: TrollTech Qt used to be in Australia00:20
timeless_mbpi'd assume Nokia hasn't closed the office there00:21
crashanddie__oh really?00:21
timeless_mbpif you're lucky you could ask them to manage the return00:21
crashanddie__is there a lot of Nokia stuff going on in Oz?00:21
qgilBrisbane, Qt 4.6 for Maemo comes actually from there00:21
crashanddie__heh, moving to Brisbane :)00:21
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ljpqt 4.6 for maemo does not come from Brissie00:22
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xorAxAxhmm, af-sb-init doesnt work anymore for me00:22
xorAxAx/usr/bin/ line 55: /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop: No such file or directory00:22
qwerty12_N900qgil: anders_gud would be a better person to ask, I guess. I just put it in -devel for him; he did the actual porting (plus, Python isn't a speciality)00:22
xorAxAxand other weird error messages, help!00:22
xorAxAx(the particular file exists)00:22
* w00t can't wait for qt 4.6.00:22
ProteousKenYoung: if you just need a term you can: from the n900: ssh -R 12345: username@yourhost00:22
qgilqwerty12_N900: ah... do you think he'll answer within 12h?  :)00:23
Proteousthen from your desktop: ssh -p 1234500:23
Proteousto localhost00:23
javispedroxorAxAx: are you in armel or x86 target? and, since you said /etc/init.d/hildon-desktop exists, does /bin/sh exist? :)00:24
xorAxAxjavispedro: x86 target00:24
xorAxAxjavispedro: no, it doesnt,hmm00:24
Proteoussomething wierd about tunneling ssh over ssh00:24
xorAxAxwhere is my sh?!?00:24
qwerty12_N900qgil: Heh, good question... He's -1h behind you guys =)00:24
Khertan <=== does it works for you ?00:25
xorAxAxjavispedro: i symlinked bash into sh and it works now. nevertheless weird why sh vanished00:25
javispedroblack magic :)00:25
qgilljp: do you know where this guy is based?
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qgilmaybe not the 4.6 code, but the packaging then  :)00:26
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xorAxAxhow can i start a terminal on maemo 5?00:27
mikhasit is funny how there is an account that only draws karma from publishing the packages =)00:27
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xorAxAxis there one in extras(-devel)?00:27
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mikhasI think karma should run into negatives >=)00:27
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crashanddie__xorAxAx, the SDK is not an emulator00:27
StskeepsxorAxAx: osso-xterm is the packge name00:27
ljpqgil: he is QA engineer in Brisbane assigned to Maemo stuff00:27
xorAxAxcrashanddie__: you mean its missing applications?00:27
crashanddie__xorAxAx, meaning getting the full environment, 100% like it's on the device itself is not going to be easy00:28
crashanddie__if possible at all, which I doubt00:28
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xorAxAxbut osso-xterm could have been in the metapackage00:28
lardmanor even possible as qemu doesn't fully emulate the processor00:28
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qgilljp: do you like chess ahem ahem?  B)00:29
javispedroxorAxAx: it's not a nokia-binary nor makes sense to add in the default environment, since why limit yourself to osso-xterm when you have whatever xterms you need in your host?00:29
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crashanddie__qgil, are you ranked?00:29
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ljpi am bad at chess00:29
xorAxAxjavispedro: for interoperability testing00:30
xorAxAxjavispedro: whether the input methods suite your console app00:30
xorAxAxthat you want to port to fremantle00:30
qgilljp: but this doesn't really matter if you are good at Qt programming:
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qgilplease forward the URL to your chess loving mates pls  ljp00:30
xorAxAxwoooot, colored prompt00:31
javispedroxorAxAx: "input methods"? you can only test virtual keyboard.00:31
xorAxAxjavispedro: for example00:31
qgilcrashanddie__: I'm a humble player around 150000:31
xorAxAxjavispedro: ah, the return key doesnt work in the osso-xterm00:31
xorAxAxi can type ls but return doesnt do anything00:32
javispedroxorAxAx: cause it's expecting a KP_ENTER because that's what the device keyboard sends AFAIK00:32
qgilqwerty12_N900: anyway, it looks like MyPaint won't be in the BCN Long Weekend. What about you?00:32
javispedroxorAxAx: so if you have a keypad, press the enter key there.00:32
qwerty12_N900qgil: Sorry, no passport or anything00:32
crashanddie__qgil, nice. I won't be challenging you then00:32
xorAxAxjavispedro: ok00:33
KenYoungProteous, What is the meaning of 12345 in the command you just sent me?   Do I literally use 12345 (if that's the case, it doesn't work) or should I be substituting some other number for 12345 ?00:33
qgilqwerty12_N900: where are you based?00:33
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lardmanqwerty12_N900: poor excuse you've had time!00:33
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qwerty12_N900qgil: London00:33
crashanddie__qgil, he's a minor00:33
timeless_mbpi'm confused00:33
crashanddie__qgil, technically, you could be arrested for inviting him ;)00:33
qgilqwerty12_N900: still? How long have I been hearing that story?  ;)00:33
timeless_mbpdo you need a guardian to cross national borders?00:33
qgilok ok00:33
lardmanqwerty12_N900: I thought you were 17?00:33
SpeedEvilclearly 12.00:33
qgilcrashanddie__: alright, I see the brits in this room  :P00:34
lardmanhi qgil :)00:34
KenYoungProteous, And yes, in answer to your earlier question, all I want is a shell on my N900 that I can have displayed on my desktop machine, and type into with my desktop keyboard.00:34
qwerty12_N900lardman: Yep00:34
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lardmanqwerty12_N900: well you're not minor any longer then are you...?00:34
timeless_mbpKenYoung: ssh -X is your friend00:34
crashanddie__"any longer"?00:34
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lardmanyou can even get married and fly a plane00:34
timeless_mbpis your desktop wifi enabled?00:34
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xorAxAxuh, so many packages break because there is no maemo-select-menu-location00:35
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xorAxAxisnt there a dummy package somewhere?00:35
lardmanxorAxAx: yeah, noticed thar00:35
crashanddie__lardman, coming of age is still at 18, technically speaking, he can't take a taxi without a guardian00:35
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: the goal was to force people to rebuild/repackage00:35
xorAxAxcan somebody wrap up a dummy? :)00:35
lardmanyeah he can in the UK00:35
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: well, there are broken packages in extra-devel ...00:35
KenYoungtimeless_mbp, But I can't ssh INTO my N900, only ssh'ing OUT from it works.00:35
xorAxAxwas that a goal? :)00:36
javispedroxorAxAx: not many00:36
ProteousKenYoung: the 12345 is just a random port number, the command creates a port forward00:36
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: and given that for the n900 we want people to optify too00:36
lardmanhe can drive now, so taking a taxi isn't such a big thing00:36
timeless_mbpKenYoung: ok, so can you ssh to your n900 from your n900?00:36
mikhaswhat is the legal age in UK for owning a n900 then? 37?00:36
crashanddie__lardman, most cab companies won't allow it -- and I actually believe it's illegal, as he is "alone"00:36
timeless_mbpkidnapping is a serious crime in .uk :)00:37
qgil30 seconds survey: anybody here still undecided about going to BCN Long Weekend?00:37
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timeless_mbpqgil: would someone sponsor me to go :)00:37
crashanddie__qgil, GeneralAntilles lost his passport00:37
lardmanqgil: would love to go but have work stuff on :(00:37
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SpeedEvilKenYoung: then connecting to 12345 on your 'desktop' system connects to port 22 - through the ssh remote proxy00:37
lardmancrashanddie__: you're not serious about GeneralAntilles?00:37
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crashanddie__lardman, correct00:37
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lardmangood good00:37
ProteousKenYoung: that commands connects from you n900 to your desktop and sets up a listening port on your desktop (the 12345 number) that takes any trafic sent to it and sends it on to port 22 on you n90000:38
xorAxAxSetting up osso-xterm (0.14.mh27+0m5) ...00:38
xorAxAxYou must be root to launch this program.00:38
KenYoungtimeless_mbp, Yes, I can ssh from the N900 to the N900, using .00:38
crashanddie__that would've been the funniest thing ever. GA losing his passport after the Summit catastrophe!00:38
StskeepsxorAxAx: fakeroot00:38
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qgillardman your barcode reader...?00:38
SpeedEvilKenYoung: So you connect to your desktop on port 12345 with ssh - login through the transparent tcp tunnel setup by ssh and then do whatever you want on the n900 - including setting up a xterm pointing back to your desktop00:38
ProteousKenYoung: so if you have sshd running on your n900 on port22 then it should allow you to tunnel the ssh connection from your desktop to your n90000:38
lardmanqgil: working00:38
* VDVsx drops the bomb at -community :)00:38
qgiloh my00:39
xorAxAxStskeeps: yeah00:39
qgilI go to sleep, see you tomorrow00:39
xorAxAxwow, bullshit bingo00:39
qwerty12_N900'night, qgil00:39
lardmanqgil: still need to improve webscraping, but am thinking of moving everything other than decoding out of it and sending DBus messages to interested apps00:39
lardmannight qgil00:39
qwerty12_N900VDVsx: Thanks for getting the ball rolling00:39
qgilthx for microreport lardman00:39
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KenYoungProteous, But when I do it, I get the message "Remote port forwarding failed for listen port 12345"00:39
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ProteousKenYoung: try changing that number and seeing if it works00:40
Proteoussomething else might be using that port00:40
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SpeedEvilI know that dropbear seemed not to like to do portforwarding oncee when I tried it00:40
xorAxAxhmm, at first i though the cancel button would be hidden below the lower screen border when i was first using xephyr and the sdk00:41
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javispedroVDVsx: I see your evil bomb.00:41
timeless_mbpKenYoung: you could replace dropbear to openssh :)00:41
qwerty12_N900Why would you use Dropbear on an NXXX device anyway? It's like buying a Ferrari and asking for a tape recorder to be put in there00:41
KenYoungProteous, No, it doesn't work even with a different number.   Do I need to enable X11 forwarding in the /etc/ssh/ssh_config file?   It does not appear to be enabled by default.00:41
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Proteousthis is not using x11 at all00:42
Proteousyou don't need x11 for just a terminal00:42
KenYoungtimeless_mbp, I'm not using dropbear.   I don't think dropbear supports X11 forwarding.   I'm using openssh00:42
javispedroif you are memory conscious launche openssh from inetd :)00:42
* Stskeeps ponders why on earth osso-bookmark-engine is closed00:43
* timeless_mbp frowns00:43
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xorAxAxjavispedro: is that connected to the karma? :)00:43
timeless_mbpStskeeps: histerical reasons00:43
* xorAxAx is playing frozen bubble on the sdk in xephyr00:43
javispedroStskeeps: still surprised?00:43
Stskeepshysterical or historial? :)00:43
timeless_mbpbut mostly because the browser team never managed to get approval to open source anything00:43
timeless_mbpStskeeps: "yes"00:43
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timeless_mbp(i.e. both)00:43
timeless_mbpour primary goal was to open source the browser ui00:44
Stskeepsright, back to ripping bookmark support out by force of hildon-home00:44
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javispedroand you failed ... ?00:44
timeless_mbpbut that mostly failed00:44
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timeless_mbpwe weren't going to fight harder for bookmarks having failed w/ browser-ui00:44
meceheh testing an N900... over vnc.00:44
crashanddie__mece, shame the cursor doesn't show up eh00:45
pekujayou have a VNC server running on the N900?00:45
crashanddie__pekuja, yeah, got one too here00:45
meceno but my friend has. I dont have the device00:45
ProteousKenYoung: something on your desktop machine is not letting you create the listening port00:45
mikhasanyone using sbox on windows here?00:45
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meceyeah.. still it's pretty cool00:45
* javispedro remebers the stupid "mail" task navigator plugin was closed. considering that, I can see reasons for nearly everything to be closed.00:45
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mecex11vnc only uses 10% and it's pretty smooth. Over 3g no less!00:46
mikhasis there an easy way to access folders inside sbox from windows directly, say with the windows explorer?00:46
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mece10% cpu that is00:46
pekujaI'm still on the fence about getting an N900. that sort of things do make me smile though :-P00:46
qwerty12_N900javispedro: I find it amusing that such things as the Memory Control Panel applet are closed :\00:46
pekujaevery now and then it does bug me how little flexibility the OS in my current phone has00:46
javispedrodifferentiation... yeah.00:46
ProteousKenYoung: what is your desktop running?00:47
ProteousKenYoung: is it a mac?00:47
betzGreetings! I've just read about maemo in a linux magazine and i was wondering if it would be possible to run maemo on a nokia 6620 navigator?00:47
qwerty12_N900There's differentiation and then there is just plain being anal00:47
VDVsxmikhas, where is sbox ? inside a linux system ?00:47
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KenYoungProteous, No, it's running Centos, but I just tried doing it to an Ubuntu machine, and I did not get an error, so I'm sure you're right, the problem is on the desktop machine.00:48
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ShadowJKbetz, no.00:48
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mikhasVDVsx, sbox inside linux/virtual box00:49
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KenYoungProteous, Once I have that listening port set up, how can I use it to open an xterm displayed on the desktop machine?00:49
ShadowJKMaemo4 on N800 and N810, Maemo5 on N900.00:49
wiretappedthe N900 is no longer available on newegg:
wiretapped"Deactivated Item"00:50
wiretappednot in their search results00:50
crashanddie__Jaffa, am I dreaming or is christaexport highjacking your post about MWN to talk about his depression?00:51
VDVsxmikhas, ah, the vbox image is a big file, dunno if you can access things there. If it's inside a normal linux system, you only need to install support for ext3/4 on windows00:51
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VDVsxthere's a couple of free app for that00:51
mikhasok thanks!00:51
crashanddie__wiretapped, out of stock?00:52
DantonicN800mece, what os do you run on your desktop?00:52
mecemint 700:52
meceusing gtkvncviewer to play with the N90000:53
wiretappedcrashanddie__: it was never listed as being in stock; the date available went from 11/14 to 11/3000:53
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DantonicN800mece, i'm trying to figure out vnc, i'm on ubuntu 9.10 but have been unable to configure it.  trying to use vino.  whats an easy server to setup?00:54
mecegtkvncviewer works fine on ubunutu. or are you talking about server?00:54
DantonicN800server on ubuntu to access from tablet00:55
meceoh wait.00:55
meceI'll ask the owner of the phone. He does that.00:56
ProteousKenYoung: from your desktop machine run: ssh -P thePortYouUsedMaybe12345 localhost00:56
Proteouslogin with the username password that you have setup on you n90000:57
javispedroI see KDE is getting on "abusing the community word" train.00:58
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KenYoungProteous, Thanks very much for your patient help on this.   The Ubuntu machine I was able to get your command to work on is not in my building, so I'll have to travel to test this out.   I'll sign off here now, and try the command you just gave me.   Again, thanks a bunch!00:58
meceDantonicN800, just open "remote desktop" (should be installed) and enable stuff there. no extra software required.00:59
ProteousKenYoung: no problem, hope it works!00:59
kynkyhope they port nx (nomachine) to n90000:59
edgar2dantonicn800: i'm using linux mint, and the pre-installed program remote desktop00:59
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edgar2i simply enabled it to accept remote connections01:00
edgar2and logged in with vnc viewer from n90001:00
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mecehere's some stuff on remote desktop on ubuntu:
* Hydroxide cheers at finally having a n90001:01
DantonicN800heh spent several hours on it.  it doesnt work.01:02
meceHydroxied, does it have a working mic?01:02
DantonicN800how is mint? whats different about it?01:02
Hydroxidemece: I haven't tested the mic input yet. are most of them broken?01:02
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Hydroxidemece: (yes, that means I haven't made a call yet)01:02
meceDantonicN800 It's easy.01:02
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meceHydroxide, no, but some are.01:02
Hydroxidemece: ah. will be sure to check. thanks for the heads-up01:03
edgar2dantonicn800: mint is, afaik, ordinary ubuntu + some artwork and custom menu + update-manager01:03
Hydroxidemece: my 14-day return period starts today according to the included packing list, so I have some time to find any flaws :) and I think for defects it's 30 days01:03
Hydroxidemece: I'm overall expecting to like it like I did my 770 and N800 :)01:03
Hydroxidemece: or probably more01:03
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meceHydroxide: well, I don't have one yet :( But at least I'm playing with one over vnc right now :D01:04
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Hydroxidemece: cool :) I pre-ordered from on september 3, and did the "oops nokia gave me an incompatible bundle" re-order with 15% discount on november 16. it shipped overnight yesterday and arrived today01:05
Hydroxidemece: so you can draw your own conclusions from that about your own situation01:05
meceHydroxide: I'll get mine 4th or 6th december. Yawn.01:06
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meceBut I might get two of them to work this week.01:07
Hydroxidemece: good luck. seems nice so far.01:07
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lardmanwhat's my best bet for splitting a file read into a char* to get the individual lines out?01:08
ShadowJKstrtok is evil01:09
lardmanin C01:09
w00tanyone want a google wave invite? I've 16 to give away01:09
* AakashPatel wishs he had a use for google wave01:09
ProteousI've got one but non of my friends do, makes google wave pretty boring01:09
AakashPatelmines just been sitting there un used :(01:10
ShadowJKIf you're going to use strtok, consider strsep01:10
w00tAakashPatel: much the same as my attitude ;-)01:10
w00tyuizy: msg me your address01:10
yuizyw00t: do you want my email?01:10
AakashPatelyuizy, you probably wont get the invite immediately btw01:10
crashanddie__lardman, fscanf(ptr, "%s", &buffer); if my memory serves me well01:10
mavhcwave replaces group email/document collaboration01:10
crashanddie__lardman, sorry, that's wrong, use fgets01:11
lardmanah, good idea, thanks crashanddie__01:11
w00tanyone else?01:11
AakashPatelyuizy, a few days ;)01:11
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crashanddie__s * [r, c, 1] =  P * [ -sin(phi); cos(phi)sin(theta); cos(phi)cos(theta) ]01:12
crashanddie__sorry, wrong window01:13
javispedroah, matlab. *hate/love relationship*01:13
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crashanddie__(for those interested, where P = T * K(f) * R)01:13
sp3000there's no symbol for that relationship?01:14
mecealrighty I'm off. goodnight01:14
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AakashPatelnight dude01:14
sp3000surely somewhere in unicode ;)01:14
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julianoliveri'm setting up the nokia apps in sbox_FREEMANTLE_x86 and getting pages of errors like the following:
julianoliveris that to be expected?01:16
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AakashPatelIs the maemo emu supposed to have any apps installed in ti?01:18
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sp3000if you install the nokia binaries whatever thingamajig it'll have some at least01:19
AakashPatelOh what.. I instlled the nokia binaries and i didnt have *any*01:20
javispedroAakashPatel: it's not an emu.01:20
AakashPatelnot even a browser :/01:20
AakashPatelah i see01:20
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javispedrothough Nokia did add some x86 builds of some applications to aid development01:20
Klowneryou can apt-get the extra stuff01:20
javispedroincluding the browser01:20
javispedroin metapackage nokia-apps01:20
*** crashanddie__ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - | Scratchbox + Xephyr is not an emulator, don't expect a terminal or browser"01:21
* AakashPatel just came from the android world01:21
AakashPatelso i got used to the word emulator01:21
crashanddie__julianoliver, in your world, are "errors" "expected?01:22
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acidjazzFUCKING SHIP ALRD01:24
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crashanddie__Si la gent entendria que no som Google!01:24
crashanddie__acidjazz, take your pills01:24
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julianolivercrashanddie__: with software there is no One World.. In the world of Maemo 5, errors may be equivalent to light drizzle, I don't yet know.01:25
acidjazzhow is qt btw01:25
acidjazzis it neat01:25
acidjazzgimme some qt codes to read or a lil qt tutorial01:25
crashanddieacidjazz, you do realise Maemo 5 doesn't include Qt by default, right?01:25
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crashanddieor rather, to qualify the above, the Maemo 5 UI isn't written in Qt01:26
KenYoungProteous, Are you sure "ssh -P 12345 localhost" is what I should use?   I get the error "ssh: connect to host 12345 port 22: Invalid argument" .01:26
acidjazzcrashanddie: whats it written in then01:26
julianoliverKenYoung: little -p01:26
crashanddieacidjazz, GTK/Hildon01:26
crashanddieacidjazz, as for Qt tutorials: /join #qt01:27
Pio-P for scp, -p for ssh :(01:27
acidjazzso whats the optimal langauge to write apps in01:27
acidjazzw/out caring about including stuff01:27
julianoliverPio: isn't it annoying. especially after 10 years of daily use.01:27
Pioso so so annoying hehe01:27
crashanddieacidjazz, lol?01:27
crashanddieacidjazz, use a proper IDE and use whatever language you fancy?01:27
julianoliveracidjazz: indeed. assembler is optimal.. for computers.01:28
acidjazzi'm asking a question of preference01:28
crashanddieacidjazz, and everyone will give you a different answer01:28
acidjazzthats fine01:28
acidjazzwhats yours01:28
crashanddieacidjazz, we can't make choices for you, only you can01:28
acidjazzi know01:28
acidjazzand i will01:28
julianoliveracidjazz: for humans it greatly varies. i prefer Python for quickly writing an application. for performance, i stick with C++01:28
KenYoungProteous, I tried that too.   It gives the error "ssh: connect to host localhost port 12345" Connection refused" .01:28
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julianoliverKenYoung: well then you don't have sshd listening on 12345 /or/ you don't have sshd running at all or you are trying to connect as root or [..]01:29
crashanddieKenYoung, netstat -nl | grep 1234501:29
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acidjazzjulianoliver: is python built into the sdk for maemo?01:29
crashanddieacidjazz, you can install it easily01:30
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acidjazzyea but if i write python apps am i going to have to ask ppl to install python to run them?01:30
acidjazzi'd rather avoid that01:30
crashanddiebut that will be done automatically01:30
acidjazzwill they know?01:30
acidjazzor itll prompt em?01:30
crashanddiebasically, the application manager will automatically install the dependencies01:30
acidjazzdependancy packages or something..01:30
acidjazzi see01:30
acidjazzthere a php dependancy package? :)01:31
crashanddieso for example, the first time a user install a python app it will show up as being "15meg", when really the app itself is just 20k, but the dependencies beef that up01:31
julianoliveracidjazz: if you package it properly then that'll all be done for the user.01:31
crashanddieacidjazz, no, PHP is not ported for N900 as far as I am aware01:31
acidjazzcrashanddie: cuz the python package is 15mb? yea that woudl suck01:31
KenYoungcrashanddie, THat command produces no output, except error messages about no kernel support for INET601:32
julianoliveracidjazz: well, it'd be the same on a platform like Windows. i think many users would not find it a problem.01:32
crashanddieacidjazz, that link was for Mistral -- aka the 77001:33
julianoliverKenYoung: 'netstat -tupa' on the N90001:33
acidjazzand it was 200701:33
acidjazzso then why is qt so marketed as the langauge for the n90001:33
crashanddieit is not01:33
julianoliverKenYoung: better 'netstat -tupa | grep sshd'01:33
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acidjazzis that just what is the most supported by the n900?01:33
KenYoungjulianoliver, It does not accept the -p option.01:34
crashanddiejulianoliver, he's port forwarding SSH, so SSHD won't help01:34
julianolivercrashanddie: ahh.. i see.01:34
crashanddieacidjazz, god you're thick01:34
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crashanddieacidjazz, Qt isn't most supported on the N900. Everything native is GTK/Hildon. Qt has been announced as being the platform for Maemo 601:34
crashanddieacidjazz, hence, everyone gets an implied incentive to use Qt rather than GTK if they want their apps to run nicely on Maemo 601:35
acidjazznokia made a public newsletter announcing qt support etc01:35
acidjazzoh 6 ok01:35
crashanddiehowever at this point, Qt python bindings and such aren't optimal yet, so if you just want to have fun, I would suggest using something that is well documented such as GTK/Hildon01:35
acidjazzi guess i missed it was 601:35
acidjazzyea i think i will01:36
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acidjazzthanks for the info crashanddie , minus insulting me the entire time01:36
javispedrooh, you get used to him after a while :)01:36
crashanddiedon't behave like an idiot and I won't have to01:36
crashanddiehappy I could help01:36
crashanddiejavispedro, seen my latest rant on tmo?01:37
acidjazzalso venting to random ppl on irc wont help your issues :)01:37
javispedrocrashanddie: yep01:37
crashanddiejavispedro, I'm sure you liked it01:37
javispedroto be honest, I did.01:37
crashanddiethere's a surprise :)01:37
javispedroI dislike "goodbye members" or similarly styled threads.01:37
crashanddieI actually had to revise the post a few times before posting it -- I was way too rough for tmo01:38
crashanddieacidjazz, I don't really vent, I just prefer it when people do some research before asking obvious questions01:38
crashanddieacidjazz, everything you asked has been discussed millions of times on the mailing lists, forums and blogs, I really don't see how you could've missed it while searching -- indicating you didn't, and showing you think our time is less valuable than yours01:39
acidjazzyou have an idea how much easier it is to just ask and find out instantly on irc?01:39
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acidjazzno matter how many ppl you piss off?01:40
acidjazzwhos thick now01:40
crashanddieacidjazz, do you have any idea the people you're pissing off are the ones you're considering working with for the next few months, if you get a device?01:40
acidjazzyes, 1.01:40
lardmananyone know if there's a handy hildonesque function which returns the name of the visible user directory, e.g. ~/MyDocs ?01:41
crashanddieacidjazz, I'm happy we cleared that up, I'm sure people will love working with you :)01:41
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crashanddielardman, it's a single user environment01:42
acidjazzand as i learn i also plan on helping any1 else in here who has questions w/out simultaneousely insulting them and venting other issues01:42
crashanddielardman, you can probably hard-code that (or conf it)01:42
andre__...and in the end, everything was fine and everybody was happy.01:42
lardmanyeah, but the name might change01:43
crashanddielardman, never came across that anyway01:43
crashanddies/that/that function/01:43
infobotcrashanddie meant: lardman, never came across that function anyway01:43
lardmanme neither01:43
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crashanddielardman, do you know autostitch?01:44
kalikianafklardman, the env variable MYDOCSDIR01:44
lardmanah right01:44
lardmancrashanddie: no, what is it01:44
lardmankalikianafk: thanks01:44
kalikianafkno problem01:44
crashanddielardman, funky app that assembles pictures in a pano view01:45
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lardmanah right, seen that sort of thing before01:45
crashanddielardman, contrary to most apps that do that, it doesn't do just 1d adjustments, but also 2d adjustments (horizontal and vertical, thus depth and angle)01:45
crashanddielardman, the results are seriously amazing, millions time better than the ones I had seen before01:46
lardmanrotation too?01:46
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crashanddielardman, 360deg * 180deg01:46
lardmanI meant adjustment of the rotation of an image before stitching it01:47
* kalikianafk rubs his hands and builds his libsoup that can be installed in parallel to the existing one01:47
crashanddielardman, also, if you need to subcontract some webscraping functions, I don't helping out a bit. Just drop me an email saying what you're trying to get from a page or something and I'll see if I can help out01:47
crashanddielardman, oh yeah, it doesn't care about the angle, only what's in the image itself01:47
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javispedrooh, people are ALREADY asking why only 25 GiB free01:47
lardmancrashanddie: well re webscraping, anything that does a better job than what I have atm ;)01:48
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lardmancrashanddie: AWS would be good, also barcodepedia, etc., etc01:48
lardmancrashanddie: there are some urls listed and commented out in the existing web.c code, so please take a crack if you feel like it01:48
crashanddielardman, might do on the plane while I'm flying to calif this weekend01:48
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julianoliverHAH! it works. i have a fully virtually hosted scratchboxed, Maemo 5 to play with on my laptop. super.01:49
* julianoliver rubs hands01:49
lardmanfeel free, probably better than waxing your surfboard01:49
crashanddiejulianoliver, could you document your steps?01:49
julianoliveri just followed this, to the letter:
crashanddiejulianoliver, that's just the SDK though ;)01:49
julianolivermy two previous attempts failed.01:49
julianolivercrashanddie: yes, that's what i meant ;) it's running in the hosted X session.01:50
crashanddiejulianoliver, I failed miserably last time as well, found out later that it was because some package was unavailable on the repo01:50
julianoliveryes, i think this happened to me.01:50
acidjazzjulianoliver: nice01:51
crashanddielardman, only taking my skateboard this time. Rented the surf equipment over there last time. Half moon bay was awesome, but a bit shark infested and cold01:52
crashanddieI guess the sharks will be a good training for oz01:52
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julianolivercrashanddie: attacks on surfers are pretty rare in Australia. just stay between the flags and be sure to listen to beachpatrol.01:54
lardmanjulianoliver: not as rare as over here though I bet ;)01:55
julianoliverthat said, as someone that's been in close proximity to a very large shark, none of that is any comfort.01:55
julianoliverlardman: where's 'here'?01:55
lardmanUK :)01:55
acidjazzyou said half moon bay?01:55
acidjazzin cali?01:55
lardmanthough per surfing capita.......01:56
julianoliverlardman: then yes, it's a problem of epidemic proportions.01:56
julianoliveranyway, night all01:56
crashanddielardman, you'd be surprised at the number of surfers in the UK01:56
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crashanddieacidjazz, yeah, going to cal for a month01:57
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lardmannight julianoliver01:57
TommyBreshey guys i just got my emu running, can someone help me get browser on there?01:57
lardmancrashanddie: I know, but fewer than Oz I imagine01:57
acidjazzim in sf01:58
crashanddielardman, this is the truly impressive stuff:
crashanddieacidjazz, cool, I'll be staying in Fremont01:58
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acidjazzcrashanddie: got an n900 you wanna sell me? :)01:58
acidjazzcrashanddie: you have yours yet?01:58
crashanddieI have one on loan from Nokia01:59
acidjazzoh one of the pre ones01:59
acidjazzhowd you get it01:59
crashanddieacidjazz, lol, last time I was in cal I asked for one nicely and they gave me one for 3 days ;)01:59
crashanddie(I had to do a presentation)01:59
acidjazzhow do you ask, they have an office here?01:59
acidjazzthe nokia ngage building in soma?01:59
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crashanddieSomewhere in Mt View02:00
crashanddieright off the freeway, take a right, big unmarked complex, looks good though02:00
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crashanddieyou won't get it without an appointment though ;)02:00
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crashanddieget in**02:00
acidjazzyou went there and asked for one?02:00
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acidjazzlol how do i make an appt02:01
crashanddieyup, that's the one02:01
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acidjazzwhat do you do? whatd you make the appt for?02:01
kynkymy n900 just 4mins ago set off on its journey from tamworth to leeds, and i work in leeds, n900 will be mine02:01
acidjazzthere we go02:01
acidjazzkynky: whatd you order from02:02
kynkynokia uk shop02:02
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KenYoungProteous, FYI - If I just put my N900 on the net via WiFI, instead of GSM/3G, everything works easily, so I guess I'll just do that.02:03
crashanddieacidjazz, I'm a security expert, I know a few R&D engineers in the cal office02:03
crashanddieacidjazz, I forgot my N900 in London, asked if I could borrow one as I needed to do a presentation, they were happy to help02:04
crashanddieKenYoung, yeah, it's quite a lot of hassle, plus it's not like you need the ssh console that much on the NIT anyway02:05
crashanddieKenYoung, plus, keeping an active SSH session over 3G would probably drain the battery a bit more02:06
KenYoungcrashanddie, Yeah, I really only need to be able to do this from home or work anyway.   Thanks for your helpful messages earlier.02:06
crashanddieKenYoung, no wifi at work?02:07
kynkycrashanddie, guess it depends on th keepalive, but ssh with compression on idle, wont send much data, and use screen anyway and detach when not in use02:07
KenYoungYeah, WiFI at home and work, so this solution works at any desktop I really care about.02:07
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KenYoungI'm used to an Openmoko phone, where it's easy to ssh over USB.02:08
crashanddieKenYoung, we'll have USBNet soon enough ;)02:09
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crashanddiethat or you'll have to wait for someone to finally implement the long awaited IP over FM02:09
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KenYoungcrashanddie, There's the IR port, too.02:10
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crashanddieheh, SSH over IR02:10
crashanddiehow mid-80s-bad-hacker-movie is that02:10
crashanddie"If we get a mirror to reflect the signals into the mainframe receiver, I will be able to connect as if I was in front of it!"02:11
crashanddieanyone else just had a geeky thought about taking over those old wireless infrared keyboards?02:12
KenYoungcrashanddie, FOr a mid 80's hacker movie, it would just work with no fiddling, between two machines the hacker had never touched.02:12
crashanddieheh, yeah02:12
crashanddie"Let me connect to the pentagon website"02:12
KenYoungOh, the password is the Secretary of Defense's son's name!02:13
Shapeshifterhacker is suck a funny movie02:13
ShapeshifterI like the bad guy on the skateboard.02:14
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acidjazzcrashanddie: oh nice02:14
acidjazzcrashanddie: i was in the sec industry for 5-6 years02:14
acidjazzcrashanddie: foundstone02:14
acidjazzcrashanddie: don trly do that that muhc anymore, but still have alot of close friends in the industry02:15
acidjazzcrashanddie: whatd you do a presentation on? mobile security?02:15
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crashanddieacidjazz, something like that :)02:18
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acidjazzcrashanddie: you know zane lackey or luis miras ?02:19
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crashanddieisn't zane a BH guy?02:20
crashanddiethink I've seen some of his talks02:20
crashanddiebut don't know him personally02:20
crashanddiedon't know the other one02:20
acidjazzcan i ask your name?02:20
acidjazzi command ur infos02:21
crashanddiegoogle me ;)02:21
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andre__"This message has been rejected because it has a potentially executable attachment "foo.js". I want back those days when internet just worked(TM) and mail servers did not try to be smartasses02:22
crashanddieanyway, I'm out02:23
crashanddielardman, drop me an email about the stuff you need02:23
crashanddielardman, no logging here, forgot the websites and shit. I'll have a look at the source code this weekend02:23
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philosopherdoes the n900 only have 65536 color ?02:24
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philosopherdoes the n900 only have 65536 color ?02:26
kalikianafkandre__, as far as I remember .js is actually executable on windows02:26
kalikianafkbut I agree it's not helpful to reject it02:26
philosopherkalikianafk:  any idea ?02:27
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kalikianafkphilosopher, I don't remember off head I'm afriad. I can tell you that images display with enough colours but no idea how many it is capable of02:28
philosopherchecking the official web site it is not mention there02:29
philosopherso i guess it is 65356...02:29
philosophercanceling my order lol02:29
kalikianafkwhat makes you worry about it in particular?02:29
AakashPatelyeah, what?02:29
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ProteousKenYoung: did you try it over 3g? I'm sort of interested it if works or not.02:32
philosopher65356 is just not enought for me02:32
kalikianafkphilosopher, how many do you need?02:32
philosophermy ast phone had 256 000 something02:33
lardmanseems quite complex02:33
philosopherand that wasnt enought02:33
lardmancrashanddie: thanks, websites, etc are in the code, commented out02:33
lardmancrashanddie: and poorly implemented too ;)02:33
KenYoungProteous, Yes, that's what I was originally trying, and I never got it to work.   I ran sshd in debug mode, and it never saw anything coming in.   I suspect T-Mobile does not allow that sort of traffic to go through.02:33
kalikianafklardman, you can use osso rpc and have it easier :)02:34
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kalikianafkphilosopher, enough for what?02:35
ProteousI run a constant ssh connection with ATT on my n97 with no problem02:35
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lardmankalikianafk: I only want to send a signal with an attached string02:35
lardmanall the making up classes seems like overkill to me02:36
KenYoungHmmmm.    I've been told the N900 won't work on AT&T's 3G network.   Was I misinformed?02:36
ProteousI have a nokia n9702:36
AakashPatelKenYoung, It doesnt02:36
Proteousthe n900 doesn't have att 3g frequencies02:36
kalikianafklardman, then use libosso02:36
kynkyworks on t-mobile us ?02:36
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kalikianafkphilosopher, how many colours do your videos need?02:37
KenYoungProteous, too bad.   I have an AT&T account too, so if the N900 would work there, I could get rid of one bill.02:37
lardmankalikianafk: can libosso wake the process in question?02:37
ProteousATT's data is starting to suck where I live02:37
lardmankalikianafk: I guess so as it uses DBus behind the scenes?02:37
ProteousI blame too many Iphone users02:37
AakashPatelIt already sucks where i love02:37
AakashPatelNo 3g :D02:37
philosopherkalikianafk: i dont know lol , just the video looked quite bad on my device compared to my psp... it was the sonyerison p1i02:37
KenYoungProteous, iPhone overload?02:37
kalikianafklardman, osso_application_top can02:37
ProteousI think so02:38
kalikianafklardman, yep, it's completely dbus. just the API is a lot simpler that "raw" dbus02:38
lardmanI'd like an app to be able to send a message like org.maemo.mbarcode scan02:39
kalikianafkit checks whether the app (its service) is running and opens it if not02:39
lardmanand have it start mbarcode if not running02:39
lardmanok cool02:39
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KenYoungProteous, How do you like your N97?02:39
kalikianafkthe only catch is, it won't handle someone calling your app via command line02:39
kalikianafkbut that's not really a problem I'd say02:39
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ProteousKenYoung: For the most part it works fine, wish it had a faster CPU for rendering web pages02:40
lardmannah won't start from command line anyway02:40
ProteousKenYoung: I want a n900 though :)02:40
kalikianafkphilosopher, so let's end the game. 16.7 million colours ought to be enough for you, you don't really have to worry about video quality on the n900 :)02:41
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kynkyamazing dpi02:45
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Arkenoiwhat does yellow blinking mean?02:47
ShapeshifterArkenoi: self destruction imminent02:48
AakashPatelan aplosion02:48
AakashPateldang it Shapeshifter beat me to it02:48
AakashPateland i spelled it wrong02:48
AakashPatelthere we go haha02:48
lardmanantone got an install file handy?02:48
KenYoungArkenoi, chsrging.02:48
KenYoungArkenoi, oops charging.02:49
Arkenoilooks like that02:49
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Arkenoii started copying 8gb microsd to internal memory and it hangs, is it a good idea to wait more or to reboot?02:50
AakashPatelIs it still hung?02:51
Arkenoithe screen does not lit02:51
Arkenoiyep, for 5 minutes or so02:51
AakashPatelOh hm, jut restart i suppose then02:51
b-man17yup - reboot02:51
b-man17it shouldn´t do too much harm02:52
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kalikianafklardman, debian .install file? just lines in the form debian/tmp/usr/lib/lib*.so.*02:53
lardmankalikianafk: no, a .install file to install applications02:54
lardmanbut I've downloaded and copied it into a barcode02:54
lardmanmy install handler is segfaulting atm though, and I'm too tired to go on, so will fix it tomorrow02:55
lardmanthen I just have to persuade X-Fade to place barcodes on the pages :)02:55
lardmanthough actually to contain the entire contents of an install file they are pretty large, so might be better to go the android route and just have a shortcut to the necessary info02:56
Arkenoioops, MyDocs is mounted readonly after boot02:56
lardmananyway, will look tomorrow02:56
lardmannight all02:56
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Arkenoiwill try to fsck it now02:59
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Arkenoishouldn't it check filesystem on start and mount it r/w?03:03
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Arkenoibtw how am i supposed to fix filesystem without gainroot?03:05
KenYoungArkenoi, Why not use gainroot?03:05
kalikianafkArkenoi, if you have ssh installed you can login from ssh03:06
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Arkenoiwell, i did, but n900 is marketed for end users without unix knowledge, what are they supposed to do if someting goes wrong?03:06
kalikianafkjoe average will open the File Manager and format the memory03:07
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GAN900Areknoi, why are they fixing the fs in the first place? :)03:21
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* paroneayea gonna try to install debian onto a microsd card, if possible03:34
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Arkenoibtw why is microSD is placed under the back cover?  looks quite illogical03:35
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SpeedEvilIt's easy03:37
SpeedEvilAdding slots to cases has lots of costs.03:37
SpeedEvilIt makes the case much harder to make basicall.y03:37
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paroneayeaI prefer the microsd to be there personally03:38
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paroneayeaI used to dual boot on my zaurus, w/ one operating system being on the sd card03:38
paroneayeaif you accidentally took that out03:38
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Arkenoihaving 32Gb internal memory almost ensures that microSD is "external storage" indeed, it is not to stick there forever03:40
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dmj726I would also prefer the (micro)sd to be on the it could be adapted to usb03:47
AakashPatelamazon is already shipping n900s :003:48
AakashPatelsomeone on twitter said03:48
paroneayeaI get the sense that nokia underestimated the demand for the n90003:49
dmj726at least it's not under the battery
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CoreFusion-What on earth are they blabbering about? Pushed to 4. dec? That has been the date for "street sales" for a long time now....03:59
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paroneayeaCoreFusion-: I bought mine in a nokia store...04:05
paroneayeaunless you mean to non-nokia stores04:06
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alecrimhow can I make repo work wih my distro? like mer did!04:07
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yigalj mer04:10
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dmj726Is the swirly gesture used in the browser for zoom easily applicable for other programs or does the browser handle all that?04:14
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AakashPatelanyone want google wave?04:20
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pupniki just lost sound on browser04:36
pupnikis it useful AakashPatel .04:37
AakashPatelpupnik, Depends04:37
AakashPatelDo you have friends?04:37
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pupnikyes, we pass links in email and irc and skype chat04:38
pupnikwhwhat do you do with wave?04:38
pupniksend short emails?04:39
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ShapeshifterThis "Swype" input method is extremely clever. Why didn't anyone think of that before. It looks really smart.04:40
AakashPatelpupnik, ill send you one anyways04:41
AakashPatelpm me your email04:41
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krfkeithagh netsplit05:42
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* paroneayea is looking for documentation on how to configure the nolo bootloader05:57
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KenYoungDoes anyone happen to know what the default password is (factory set) for the user account on an N900 ?06:20
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greenflyKenYoung: no password afaik06:24
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KenYounggreenfly, Well, if I try to ssh into the N900 as user, it asks for a password, and does not let me in if I just hit <return>.06:25
FirebirdKenYoung, you need to ssh as root which you should have changed the password for06:25
greenflyyeah, you have to explicitly set one06:25
greenflyit's a security measure to avoid the sorts of fun hacks that have plagued jailbroken iPhones06:25
KenYoungOK, I was a bit worried that I might mess something up if I changed the password on the default account, but I'll try that now.06:26
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raz955hey , Nokia 5800 or N95 8GB ?06:27
raz955no too expensive :( and i dont like keyboard kwerty06:28
krfkeithI'm reall sick of all the trolls on the maemo forums06:28
raz955right now i have N95 8GB i have in this phone everything ( Speaker , Camera , Symbian , LOUD MUSIC)06:29
raz955but its old and boring .. i think about 5800 what do you think ?06:29
krfkeithI like the e90, but that not be what you want06:30
krfkeithI'll buy your N95 ;-)06:30
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krfkeith*may not06:30
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raz955what do you think about 5800 ?06:31
raz955the speaker06:31
krfkeithno idea06:32
krfkeithnever used the 580006:32
raz955ok thanks anyway dude06:32
krfkeithno problem06:32
krfkeithbut yeah I'm def interested in your N9506:32
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raz955who can give me details about 5800 please?06:34
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Firebirdyou're asking in the maemo channel?06:34
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raz955its not a nokia irc channel ?06:35
ljpgoogle can give you details06:36
raz955well google give me details but i want more from exprenice users06:36
AakashPatelDoes the 5800 run maemo?06:37
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raz955wait i dont understand06:37
raz955maemo its software ?06:37
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AakashPatelMobile OS06:37
AakashPatelhey clmntch06:38
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raz955maemo support 5800 ?06:38
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raz955maemo thats OS06:39
raz955like symbian ...06:39
clmntchi got my n900 today06:40
AakashPatelclmntch, did you order from nokia?06:40
raz955well N900 its a heavy i think06:40
Ford_PrefectAnyone know if it is possible to play mp3s on the fremantle x86 SDK?06:40
raz955but beauty06:40
AakashPatelits amazing HW06:40
clmntchit needs a few firmware upgrades, i'll say that much06:41
paroneayeaso does anyone in here know anything about NOLO, the n900 bootloader, and how I might configure it to boot off of a microsd card?06:41
AakashPatelof course, it was just released ;)06:41
clmntchi suppose i should register and submit some bugs06:41
raz955wow n900 very expensive06:42
raz955not worth the money06:42
clmntchi payed 800$+ for my touch hd, and that wasn't worth the money06:43
clmntchhowever, i believe that the n900 will be worth it once they've made some fixes06:43
AakashPatelraz955, yeah it is06:43
AakashPatel500 bucks for a phone of taht caliber is nice06:43
raz955well i can tell you06:43
raz955n95 8gb you can get everything in this phone06:43
raz955and cheap06:44
raz955give me 1 thing that n900 better06:44
AakashPatelgimme the n95 page06:44
AakashPatelfound it06:44
AakashPatelthats a plus lol06:45
AakashPatelfull keyboard06:45
AakashPatel32 gb storage06:45
raz955keyboard not so good06:45
raz955the buttons small06:45
AakashPatel1GB of app memory06:46
AakashPatelWVGQ screen :)06:46
raz955after all,06:46
raz955dont worth the money06:46
microlithyou actually own the device :)06:46
raz955N95 8GB worth the money06:46
AakashPatelerm imo its worth it06:46
raz955N900 not06:46
clmntchi like it06:46
microliththe OS alone makes the N900 better than every other phone out there, imo06:46
pupnikthere is no absolute measure of value06:47
raz955Symbian better than maemo06:47
microlithraz955: heheheh, if you really think so06:47
* microlith prefers an actual linux OS06:48
raz955Maemo is new and alot of bugs06:48
AakashPatelmicrolith, yeah, maemo is like a full linux desktop in your palm06:48
raz955Symbian old and good :)06:48
AakashPatelbut old06:48
ljpold is right, but good? debatable06:49
AakashPatelstill not the full linux experience06:49
raz955nokia 3100 and n900 is almost the same06:49
raz955in 3100 you have snake06:50
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AakashPatelraz955, in n900 you have full desktop apps06:50
raz955in 5800 you have loud music06:51
lcukraz955, 100% agree06:51
lcuksnake rocks06:51
lcukwe need maemo version06:51
raz955do you have in n900 loud music ? NO !06:51
lcukmaking best use of hw06:51
raz955you only have "QUAILTY" who need quailty ? i want loud !06:51
lcuksnake HD tv out super 3d vision06:51
raz955"quailty music" only for geeks06:51
AakashPatellcuk, when i get my n900 ill do it06:51
microlithraz955: you're pretty funny06:51
lcuksomeone is making a mod tracker06:52
lcukwe can be old shool06:52
microlithlcuk: multiplayer06:52
AakashPatelword dawg06:52
raz955N86 is "music quailty" but the sound very low06:52
raz955why all the ppls think about quailty ?06:52
* AakashPatel hopes you're joking lol06:53
microlithbecause loud, distorted music sucks?06:53
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* microlith plans on using headphones, anyway06:53
raz955in n95 8gb you have loud and quailty too06:53
raz955if you dont play with Equilazer06:53
AakashPatelraz955, I got an idea...Hook it up to your car...and blast the speakers06:53
AakashPatelCLEAR AND LOUD!06:53
lcukraz955, sound is fine from n90006:53
raz955i have Subaru Justy06:53
lcukand yeah radio tx rocks06:53
lcukas does tv out06:54
microlithlcuk: what's the range on the FM xmitter?06:54
lcuksend audio through your stereo system06:54
AakashPatelas does everything else the n900 has to offer06:54
lcukmicrolith, i dunno, from the passenger seat to antenna i suppose06:54
lcukive used it from bedroom window06:54
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lcukto car downstairs06:54
lcukbut its about same distance06:54
raz955all the "geeks" use earphone , because the "quailty" and "radiation" why the hell you need that ?06:54
microlithlcuk: that's pretty good, certainly better than others I've used (and less annoying)06:54
raz955enjoy your phone with BLAST SPeAKERS06:54
microlithraz955: do you know what you're talking about?06:55
AakashPateli dont think you do06:55
raz955N900 good phone but expensive06:55
AakashPatelmicrolith, he knows he wants to blast his speakers lol06:55
raz955dont worth the money06:55
raz955why you need pay alot of money for phone ?06:55
AakashPateland totally worth my 500 bucks06:55
raz955you can get a chepaerr06:55
lcukits a computer06:55
AakashPatelthats cheap for a phone like that06:55
* luke-jr would gladly pay $800 or so for a good phone, but N900 doesn't cut the bill.06:56
raz955no its not06:56
microlithraz955: wait a year, it'll be cheaper06:56
AakashPatelraz955, uhh dude06:56
AakashPatellook at hte nokia page06:56
lcuka fucking amazing computer06:56
AakashPatelit even says mobile computer06:56
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raz955moer year you will get n90000 and no n90006:56
AakashPatelits a mobile computer, with calling as a feature06:56
raz955more *06:56
raz955with Maemo Supoer and all that bullshit06:56
microlithlcuk: woohoo!06:56
luke-jrAakashPatel: all cell phones are computers06:56
raz955only before my n86 fall to toeilt06:57
raz955what i need that shit06:57
raz955toilet *06:57
AakashPatelluke-jr, eh this one you can actually compare though ;)06:57
luke-jrbut it's not a *general purpose* computer if you can't run a *general purpose* OS06:57
raz955i talk in phone and my phone fall down to toilet06:57
raz955with all the pee and shit06:57
microlithI got it06:57
microlithraz955 is a troll06:57
AakashPatelmicrolith, yeah.06:57
krfkeithraz955: lovely...06:57
greenflytroll or not, raz955 is funny06:58
raz955i am serious06:58
AakashPatelShits and gigggles for a while06:58
raz955i search a  small bag to took it06:58
AakashPatelthen it gets old lol06:58
raz955but i get one06:58
raz955i have warrenty and trick to "hide" corrosion06:58
luke-jrI spent $800 on my first handheld.06:58
luke-jr$200 on my second.06:58
krfkeithcould someone help me with flashing my n900?  I'll be in #maemo-help so as to no flood this channel with an unrelated conversation06:58
* AakashPatel spent 400 on his second :/06:58
luke-jrfor my third, I plan to spend $800-$1000, but I'm waiting for a good one06:58
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luke-jrmy first handheld was more useful than my second06:59
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luke-jr1. Sharp Zaurus SL-C76006:59
AakashPatelluke-jr, i'll wait for a phone thats worth that much lol06:59
luke-jr2. Nokia N81006:59
raz955n900 classic phone06:59
raz955very simple06:59
raz955poor camera06:59
krfkeithI love the Zaurus06:59
luke-jrthe key difference is the keyboard06:59
raz955only the geeks see the "quailty" in this phone06:59
luke-jrSL-C760's keyboard was awesome, compared to the N810's barely usable one07:00
microlithraz955: if you don't like it, why are you here?07:00
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raz955to tell you dont buy it07:00
luke-jrraz955: it's not supposed to be a phone nor a camera.07:00
raz955you can do more better with your money07:00
microlithraz955: what should I get instead then?07:00
luke-jrraz955: I'm not buying it, but those aren't the reasons why.07:00
luke-jrmicrolith: that indeed is a good question that I can't find an answer to :(07:00
raz955you can buy n95 8gb and save your money for bike07:00
raz955or subaru justy with blast spekaers07:01
luke-jrraz955: except N95 is a phone at best07:01
microlithraz955: already have a bike, and the N95 doesn't do what I want07:01
luke-jrN900 is not a phone.07:01
raz955N900 not a phone ?07:01
AakashPatelLOL what?07:01
microlithluke-jr: it's because there's nothing else like it aside from the Neo Freerunner, and that's not a very good device07:01
AakashPatelyou just contradicted me07:01
luke-jrraz955: phone capabilities are a side effect for the N90007:01
luke-jrraz955: the goal was a 24/7 internet connection07:01
raz955look N900  its simple phone with poor os like maemo07:02
raz955very simple07:02
luke-jrall the predecessors didn't even have phone capability07:02
AakashPatelyour mind wroks in a simple way07:02
raz955Symbian 4 Ever07:02
AakashPatelokay, this isnt the symbian channel07:02
luke-jrdedicated phones are lame.07:02
microlithraz955: fine, have fun porting all your apps to symbian07:02
luke-jrwhen I find a handheld I like, my "phone" will be a bluetooth headset07:02
AstralStormtroll must be thinking "yum yum tasty"07:02
AstralStormbtw, hi07:02
luke-jrmicrolith: no need, Qt4 supports Symbian07:02
raz955in symbian you can call to ppls without problems07:02
raz955in maemo you need click 7 buttons to call07:03
AstralStormluke-jr: qt4 is but a tiny thing to port07:03
microlithluke-jr: great, which means nothing for Gtk+ apps07:03
luke-jrraz955: that's because Maemo isn't for phones.07:03
luke-jrmicrolith: GTK+ sucks. I wouldn't use those apps on ANY platform.07:03
krfkeithraz955: so wait, because the earlier tablets didn't have a phone fucntionailty they were simple?07:03
AakashPatelwho calls anyways these daysh07:03
AstralStormluke-jr: of course, you also have a zillion of other APIs to port07:03
microlithluke-jr: let me guess, you run KDE?07:03
luke-jrAstralStorm: no.07:03
raz955KDE is shit too07:03
raz955i have bugs with RTL07:03
luke-jrmicrolith: yes, KDE/Gentoo/GNU/Linux07:03
AstralStormluke-jr: ALSA, anything network-related07:03
krfkeithyou do realize your precious Symbian came from EPOC which was originally on PDAs and not smartphones07:03
raz955i have KDE its very beauty but alot of bugs07:04
luke-jrAstralStorm: Qt4 abstracts all that.07:04
raz955but after all buy n90007:04
raz955good phone i love it07:04
AstralStormluke-jr: except nobody uses those abstractions yet. hahaha07:04
raz955new os07:04
AstralStormluke-jr: find me a Qt4 app using Qt4 for networking07:04
AstralStormkmail doesn't count, it uses KDE libs07:04
AstralStormnot Qt.07:04
luke-jrI think I wrote one, once...07:04
AstralStormone, once.07:04
AstralStormnow you see the amount of porting work07:05
raz955so 5800 or n95 8gb07:05
AstralStormraz955: have fun with either07:05
AstralStormthey're both so-so phones07:05
raz955whats this so-so- ?07:05
AstralStormnot too good as PDAs or more advanced devices07:05
AstralStormraz955: they're mediocre07:05
raz955i need a Good speaker07:05
microliththen get real speakers07:06
microlithnot some tiny things embedded in a phone07:06
AstralStormn95 being a "multimedia" phone fails at it due to bad sound output and mediocre display07:06
AstralStormno speaker will help bad DSP chip07:06
raz955n95 have bad sound ?07:06
raz955uou just jealious you want n9507:06
AstralStormnot good, I'd say07:06
microlithraz955: tiny speakers have bad sound inherently07:06
AakashPatelwhos an op in here07:06
AakashPatelkick this n00b07:06
AstralStormraz955: google "cellphone sound tests"07:07
AstralStormthere are at least 2 very good sources07:07
raz955i dont need to google07:07
raz955you can hear yourself07:07
raz955whats better and what shit like n90007:07
AakashPatelthen shut it07:07
AstralStormnote: n810 has the same sound output as n9507:07
AakashPatelraz955, Why the FUCK do we care?07:07
AstralStormit is -76 dBA noise at best07:07
raz955beacause i care about you07:07
microlithraz955: please troll somewhere else07:07
AstralStormbut, n810 has far better speakers at least07:07
AakashPatelAstralStorm, dont make him talk any more07:07
AakashPatelplz lol07:08
microlithraz955: you do not understand what the N900 is about07:08
raz955where i can get awnsers07:08
raz955for my questions07:08
AstralStormAakashPatel: finished.07:08
luke-jrraz955: N900 doesn't compete with N9507:08
AstralStormI'll just give you all those 2 good links for sound tests07:08
luke-jrN900 competes with OpenPandora.07:08
AstralStormsomeone should measure n900 like that07:08
raz955panadora its linux07:08
raz955what the hell07:08
AakashPatelwah the fuck do you know07:08
raz955openSUSE 11.2 better07:08
greenflyluke-jr: but the OpenPandora wins the pre-order delay contest07:08
AakashPatelraz955, read a book once and a while07:08
raz955i dont like books07:08
* AakashPatel shuts his loud mouth07:08
microlithraz955: you do realize SuSE is linux, right?07:08
AakashPateland you do realize openpandora is a DEVICE07:09
AakashPatelOKay end of story07:09
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TommyBreshey guys i got my emu working but there are no apps, how do i get browser on there?07:10
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Ford_PrefectHow awesome is this. gdb dies with a core dump when I'm trying to load a core file.07:10
microlithFord_Prefect: two bugs in one?07:10
greenflyFord_Prefect: the only thing to do now is see if gdb dies when it loads its own core07:10
Ford_PrefectI'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong07:10
TommyBreswhen in doubt, blame microsoft07:11
Ford_Prefectgreenfly, the very fabric of space-time will tear!07:11
Ford_Prefect[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > ms-gdb07:11
Ford_Prefectbash: ms-gdb: command not found07:11
Ford_PrefectStupid Microsoft07:11
johnxis ms-gdb like Ms. Pacman? Does it have more levels?07:11
raz955ok i have idea07:12
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raz955hey hey07:14
raz955i need somebody hey hey is there and body ?07:14
raz955hey hey i need some body tuewndy07:14
microlithdo you need somebody to love?07:14
raz955ze kvar eser dakot sheani mitapek lo livkot07:14
raz955mul eynciach shelo mehayhot07:14
raz955ani gever halash she mahzik et gufo mitapek07:15
raz955ya ben shel zona :)07:15
Ford_Prefecteverybody needs somebody to love07:16
raz955well right now i am not virgin i "destroy" it before 2 months07:17
raz955in tel aviv-yafo parttyyyyy07:17
raz955oh yeah babee07:17
Ford_PrefectSigh, is _anybody_ using the armel target?07:17
microlithFord_Prefect: no one who is on at the moment, probably have to wait for timeless_mbp to roll back around07:17
timeless_mbpdefine using07:18
Ford_PrefectHave you tried running anything on it?07:18
Ford_PrefectI'm trying to run pulseaudio there, and it just hangs07:18
Ford_PrefectThe core dump is unreadable07:18
timeless_mbpyou understand that officially sbox-qemu is only for building07:18
timeless_mbpnot running07:18
timeless_mbpit's not an emulator07:18
timeless_mbpit's an sdk07:18
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Ford_PrefectI don't have a device at the moment, so was hoping to try it out07:19
raz955kde is very shitty07:19
raz955but i love the design07:19
TommyBrestimeless_mbp: yeah but when i'm in the emu, there's no browser07:19
raz955not a multilanguage07:19
TommyBresand i want one, so i can use the emulator as a phone without calls07:19
Ford_Prefecttimeless_mbp, thanks, will not waste time on that then07:19
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: qemu is an emulator. a SDK should use a cross-compiler.07:19
* timeless_mbp tries to figure out why raz955 was transliterating hebrew into #maemo07:20
raz955a - osher poooooooo ohhhhohhhhhh          ZE KVAR 10 DAKOT(MINUTES) !!! sheani mitapek lo livkot(cry)07:20
luke-jrTommyBres: calls are what define a phone. a N900 w/o calls is not even slightly phone-related07:20
Ford_Prefecttimeless_mbp, is it expected that mp3s don't play in the SDK07:20
timeless_mbpluke-jr: the problem is that a lot of linux style packages except to be able to run code as part of their build system07:20
Ford_Prefect(pardon the n00b questions ... I am a n00b)07:20
timeless_mbpFord_Prefect: dunno07:20
TommyBresluke-jr: okay sir, i would like a MAEMO RUNNING DEVICE THAT CAN BROWSE THE INTERNET07:20
timeless_mbpi don't expect audio to work in an sdk07:21
TommyBresthat's what i want the EMULATOR for07:21
raz955why no one love me ?07:21
Ford_Prefecttimeless_mbp, it does, actually07:21
Ford_PrefectAfter some massaging07:21
raz955why no one give me awnser?07:21
raz955i do something wrong ?07:21
krfkeithraz955: cuz i u luv me symbian07:21
TommyBresi've used the android emulator, the webos emulator, they don't suck nearly as bad as maemo's07:21
raz955i love the touch07:21
raz955with your fingers07:21
krfkeithI'm still needing help with flashing my N900 if anyone would care07:22
timeless_mbpTommyBres: we don't have an emulator07:22
krfkeithraz955: yes, many of us enjoy touchscreens07:22
timeless_mbpso you're comparing apples to air07:22
TommyBreswell my phone actually has a screen that doesn't suck (capacitive), so i like touching with fingers too :P07:22
TommyBrestimeless_mbp: sure you do, i ran it just a little while ago07:22
Ford_PrefectBTW, the browser works just fine on me with SB+Xephyr07:22
TommyBresit's just linux-only, which blows in itself but i'm past it07:22
AstralStormtimeless_mbp: oranges. apples are a different thing altogether07:22
Ford_PrefectSans Flash, of course07:22
* timeless_mbp pats this mac book pro07:22
TommyBresFord_Prefect: orly07:22
johnxTomaszD, did you have a question?07:22
* TommyBres laughs at your MBP07:22
Ford_PrefectTommyBres, yep - worked fine from the start for me07:23
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timeless_mbpanyway. i use armel just for incredibly basic compiling07:23
johnxkrfkeith, what happens when you try to flash?07:23
pupniki award TommyBres the b-plus silver trolling award07:23
johnxpupnik, really? I think he needs to put more heart into it07:23
TommyBresFord_Prefect: how'd you get it on there?07:23
TommyBresi don't see a browser in the emu07:23
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TommyBrespupnik: you'll know when i'm trolling, slight jabs at the sdk are far from it07:24
xnt14[laptop]~seen b-man1707:24
infobotb-man17 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4h 32m 22s ago, saying: 'it shouldn´t do too much harm'.07:24
pupnikjohnx: i stand corrected07:24
Ford_PrefectTommyBres, ' start' and voila, it's the first thing in app list as 'Web'07:25
TommyBreswow, see, mine isn't there for some reason07:25
TommyBresi have app manager and settings, and that's it... there are links on the home screens, and i can't even open them (facebook/twitter/etc)07:25
Ford_PrefectThat is weird07:26
Ford_PrefectAny errors onthe terminal?07:26
timeless_mbpFord_Prefect: what did you install?07:26
krfkeithjohnx: read this thread:
TommyBreswell, when i was downloading the nokia binaries there was some sort of error, but my friend got the same one when installing his, maybe a server was down or something?07:26
clmntchdoes anyone know how to enable the telepathy plugins on the n90007:26
timeless_mbpbecause the minimal box won't give you anything07:26
krfkeiththat's why I need to flash07:26
timeless_mbp(well it gives you what TommyBres saw)07:27
johnxkrfkeith, alright, so what OS are you running on the machine you want to flash from?07:27
TommyBrestimeless_mbp: which is why i came here and asked how to install the browser :P07:27
jaemclmntch, which ones?07:27
timeless_mbpthe meta package is osso-browser07:27
timeless_mbpbut i have no idea how one arranges to get it07:27
jaemclmntch, it depends, and most (none?) of the extra ones are in the stable repo yet07:27
johnxkrfkeith, have you tried the nokia software update tool?07:27
clmntchjaem: aim mostly07:27
krfkeithjohnx: nope, I haven't should I?07:27
johnxlet me find a link07:27
jaemclmntch, I think you may have to go through Pidgin's libpurple for that atm07:28
krfkeithjohnx: as mentioned in th thread, I can't actually boot all the way07:28
TommyBreshmm lame07:28
jaemclmntch, it's in extras-testing or extras-devel (not sure which).  If it's in -devel, it might eat your hamster07:28
timeless_mbpi believe the browser is in nokia closed which means you'd probably have needed to agree to the nokia closed license when you used the SDK installer script07:28
johnxkrfkeith, it should be fine. the nokia tool talks to the N900 at a pretty low level07:28
jaemclmntch, you have been warned07:28
krfkeithwell, I'll try that07:28
clmntchjaem: thanks07:28
jaemclmntch, seriously, though, I'd strongly recommend against using software in -devel, but it is there if you must07:29
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jaemsome of it's pret-ty bad...07:29
clmntchit's not going to get stable until somebody uses it07:29
johnxkrfkeith, ^07:29
TommyBrestimeless_mbp: i agreed to the EULA07:29
jaemclmntch, yes, but that's what -testing is for07:29
krfkeithjohnx: thanks07:29
TommyBresand like i said, when installing the nokia binaries there were issues with some of them that my friend also got07:29
jaem...builds that are for testing07:29
TommyBresi have a feeling some server was down or something was off on there side that didn't allow everything to download07:30
timeless_mbpTommyBres: doesn't sound good07:30
johnxkrfkeith, and for the record, there's a wiki page with more info here:
timeless_mbpnote that i haven't agreed to the license07:30
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jaem-devel is just for devs that need to stick their apps (however broken) in a repo07:30
timeless_mbpso my sdk doesn't have them :)07:30
krfkeithok, I had seen that07:30
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AstralStormget those guys to measure N900 as well :)07:32
AstralStormmaybe they've done so already07:32
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AstralStormthey've tested 5800 and N9607:34
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AstralStormI remember another test that checked sound quality with headphones07:35
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Ford_Prefecttimeless_mbp, the latest SDK from the site07:39
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: such is a broken build system07:40
timeless_mbpi only trade in urls :)07:40
timeless_mbpluke-jr: yeah um, welll07:40
timeless_mbpthe assumption is that most systems are broken07:41
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luke-jrtimeless_mbp: Maemo, aiming to be a system, should be able to manage this :p07:42
timeless_mbpever tried herding cats?07:42
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johnxluke-jr, cross compiling arbitrary packages? you're kidding right?07:43
johnxI mean, if it works so well for you, why were you compiling packages natively on your N810?07:44
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RST38hmoo all07:46
luke-jrjohnx: because my handheld is supposed to be self-hosting?07:46
luke-jrotherwise it's more like a PDA07:46
johnxmornin' RST38h07:47
johnxluke-jr, so you actually have a working gentoo cross compile env on your desktop, right?07:47
luke-jrjohnx: yes, but not targetting my N81007:47
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luke-jrtargetting Windows and my cable modem :p07:48
johnxif I recall, the only people who ever tried cross compiling x86 gentoo to arm gentoo ran into huge amounts of pain and frustration07:49
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krfkeithsorry had to reconnect07:49
krfkeithjohnx: are you around?07:50
johnxkrfkeith, no worries. got it working?07:50
krfkeiththe nokia updater doesn't seem to work07:50
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luke-jrjohnx: #gentoo-embedded people do it all the time07:50
krfkeithit won't recognize my device07:50
Ford_Prefectluke-jr, some things do break on the cross-compile. It's a bit of a moving target.07:50
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krfkeithjohnx: unfortunately not07:50
johnxkrfkeith, what does it say?07:51
Ford_PrefectAnd it's best to have  a couple of the crossdev packages to unb0rk host-dependent autofoo stuff07:51
krfkeithjohnx: "unable to find connected device"07:52
johnxkrfkeith, what does the N900 do when you plug it in?07:53
krfkeithshould I try the command line flasher then?07:53
johnxdoes it show the NOKIA screen? does it show a "usb" icon07:53
krfkeithwell, most of the time the screen is black with the little orangle lite on (solid)07:53
krfkeithbut occasionally it will cycle on and off and show the nokia logo with a backlight07:54
krfkeithit buzzes whenever it does this07:54
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johnxah, so you start Nokia software updater thing, pull the battery on your n900, then put the battery in and plug it into usb, right?07:54
tigertplug usb first07:55
krfkeithjohnx: oh, no, I haven't tried pulling the battery, lemme try that07:55
tigertthen batt07:55
tigertat least works with linux flasher07:55
johnxah, really? it shouldn't try to start before you hit the power button or plug in usb07:56
johnxbut really either way should work, so if one doesn't, try the other :)07:56
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krfkeithwell, I 1) started the updater, 2) plugged in the USB cable, and 3) put in the batt and nothing happens07:57
krfkeithno light, nada07:57
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krfkeithyep, the updater just said it couldn't find the device07:58
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tigertthen press power to boot it if it doesnt otherwise07:59
tigertbut the device always boots to a low level mode when battery is in08:00
tigertotherwise alarms wouldnt work when device is "off"08:00
RST38hPandora! Pandora!
RST38hLooks more like some homebrewn DSi mod, but who am I to judge...08:01
RST38h"dutiful souls behind what's sure to become the world's next favorite pocket gizmo actually have some proof that mass production is tantalizingly near."08:02
krfkeithtigert: I tried that08:02
krfkeithit refuses to boot08:02
luke-jrRST38h: did you read the associated blog?08:03
luke-jrRST38h: they skipped the finish on the test cases08:03
tigertkrfkeith: let me read scrollback :)08:03
* RST38h facepalms at luke-jr08:03
luke-jrcuriously, I just noticed Pandora's got better specs than N900 ;)08:04
luke-jrN900 = OMAP3430 - 600 MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX 530 GPU + 430MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)08:04
luke-jrPandora = OMAP3530 - 720 MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 520 MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor)08:04
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tigertkrfkeith: you could try advdnturous, ubuntu in vmware + linux flasher maybe08:05
RST38hPandora is also made of vapor, things made of vapor are always shinier08:05
krfkeithtigert: I'm using the GUI updater in the windows08:06
tigerti have never used the windowsflasher, but i guess it has docs on what to do with the device when flashing08:06
tigertif that doesnt work, i guess someone knows more about that :(08:06
krfkeithshould I try the CL one?08:06
krfkeithalso, the phone shows the Nokia logo atm, but the update still doesn't recognize it08:06
tigertthe topright corner has a usb logo briefly when it boots08:07
tigertin the nokia logo screen iirc08:07
krfkeithyeah, mine does08:07
krfkeithshoot, the logo went away08:07
tigertthat is the moment when it should hook up08:07
tigertand start flashng08:07
tigerttry another usdb port?08:08
tigertwithout usb hub etc08:08
johnxand you're using the nokia usb cable, right?08:08
krfkeithwhenever it does have the nokia logo it reboots like every 20 sec08:08
tigertyea, if it boots to the usblogo thingy it should flash08:09
tigerthow did you end up in reboot loop anyway08:09
ajaxoussorry to inject some usb reflash thoughts -- the PID/VID (product ID/Vendor ID) probably changes when the device is in reflash mode to let the reflash utilities find the right device.  "lsusb" in linux or something like in windows can possibly show what the phones doing during the reboots.  Maybe it will help...08:10
konttoriNSU (nokia software updater) is using a version of linux flasher inside08:10
johnxboth interesting tidbits to know :)08:11
tigertwith libwine or so?08:11
tigertno wait08:11
tigertthat wouldnt make sense =)08:11
krfkeithI'm talking about that software08:12
krfkeithit shows the nokia logo atm, but it constantly reboots08:13
tigertyea, but how did it end that way?08:13
tigertyou tried to flash and it went bad, or you did somwething while it was running?08:14
krfkeithno, I just rebooted it08:14
tigertand bedore that?08:15
tigertrd mode?08:15
tigertno wait, win flasher likely doesnt let you do that08:15
krfkeithit worked fine before that08:15
krfkeitheven the CL one?08:16
johnxit probably does. but he was asking what you did already08:16
johnxanyways, yeah, might be time to break out the commandline flasher if you feel up to it08:16
krfkeithcan you guys help me with it?08:17
krfkeithI downloaded that NirSoft USB viewer thing08:17
krfkeithand its not saying the N900 is connected to the computer08:17
krfkeith(it is plugged in)08:17
johnxit'll only show up as "plugged in" when it's all the way booted or right at the beginning of a boot with the "usb" logo on the screen08:18
johnxalright, so get flasher from here:
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krfkeithjohnx: ok08:26
johnxkrfkeith, ok?08:27
krfkeithI was afk08:27
krfkeithI'm getting it now08:27
* Klowner pulls his hair out08:29
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* RST38h moos at Myrtti et al08:34
krfkeithinstalled the flasher08:34
krfkeithnow what?08:35
johnxso you need to open cmd as administrator I think08:36
Ford_PrefectAnyone know the package name for the calculator and notes applications?08:36
pupnikimprove em08:37
pupnikapt-cache search calculator08:37
johnxor if you know the name of the binary: dpkg -S /usr/bin/<somebinary>08:37
Ford_Prefectpupnik, returns bc and dc08:38
Ford_PrefectAnd bison for some reason08:38
Ford_Prefectpupnik, thanks - I guess it's not there on the SDK08:39
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pupniklikewise osso-notes08:39
pupnikbut i cand dl them08:39
Ford_PrefectOn the device?08:40
krfkeithok I did that08:40
pupnikdevice yes08:40
Ford_PrefectOkay. :|08:40
johnxkrfkeith, try typing: flasher-3.5.exe08:41
johnxjust that and hit enter08:41
johnxdoes it find the flasher?08:41
krfkeithdid that08:41
pupnikoh there it is osso-notes08:42
johnxok, next is to download a new OS "image" to flash08:42
Ford_Prefectpupnik, if you say you found it on the device again, I'll have to pull some more of my hair out :P08:43
johnxyou'll want this one:
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johnxFord_Prefect, yeah, looks like it's closed source08:44
krfkeithversion 1.2009.42-1108:44
AstralStormheh, even MP3 players can't manage good sound :)08:44
krfkeithok, downloading08:44
johnxsorry, I mispasted last time: RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin08:45
AstralStormgiving some -80 dB SNR, -60 dB total distortion (I hate the % measurement), and -3dB frequency response 20-20k08:46
krfkeithcombined, and not the US localized?08:46
AstralStorm(usually flat, but tapering faster than you'd wish)08:46
AstralStormsomeone should build a real audiophile device ;p08:46
johnxkrfkeith, hang on a sec, I think that might be something else08:46
krfkeithwait, nvm08:46
AstralStormoh, those are *good* MP3 players :)08:47
krfkeithI really hope this works08:47
AstralStormbad ones are just bad08:47
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AstralStormso bad, an ok walkman of old is able to beat them08:47
krfkeithif only the N900 had USB-host we could use a USB DAC08:48
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AstralStormI wonder how do they manage such bad SNR in a battery powered device08:48
johnxAstralStorm, an old walkman had a lot more room for better sound hardware to live ...08:48
AstralStormnot that much room08:48
AstralStormand I'd be happy to offer extra 3 cm in height for proper hardware ;p08:48
johnxAstralStorm, now find half a million other people like you who will pay upfront for someone to make it and you're in good shape :)08:49
AstralStormnah, I'd like a small scale production08:50
AstralStormthousands, on demand08:50
AstralStormsustainable enough? (the problem is always with the cases, not PCBs or parts)08:50
johnxask the pandora guys about how easy it is :)08:50
AstralStormit is hard08:51
johnxmaybe CE certification as well?08:51
AstralStormwhat has CE to do with this?08:51
AstralStormor rather, EC08:51
johnxthe EU electronics certification thing08:51
AstralStormprobably only volume limit and antispill for batteries08:52
johnxis that just for devices with radio transmitters?08:52
AstralStormnot much I can see there08:52
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AstralStormjohnx: not just them08:52
AstralStormEC requires output power cap in sound devices or a warning08:52
AstralStormbut that's trivial08:52
johnxI suppose so. I guess even the pandora guys didn't have a big problem with that08:53
johnxI think mainly it was multiple revisions of the PCB, then the case molds08:53
AstralStormthe whole problem will be... building a shielded DSP08:53
johnxheh. I don't even remember all the delays anymore ...08:54
AstralStormtypical FPGAs I used for this are fairly large, but passable08:54
krfkeithI'm ntosu sure whenterh or not I want to get a pandora08:55
AstralStormit does have an apt name ;)08:56
krfkeithok I downaloaded the firmware08:56
AstralStormI should take apart a typical good MP3 player and see what's the cause of the noise08:56
AstralStormI suspect discount amplifier08:57
johnxkrfkeith, alright, how good are you on the windows command line?08:57
AstralStorm(but then again, a good sigma-delta as used for CD players is neither expensive nor bad)08:57
krfkeithjohnx: I'm ok08:59
johnxso open cmd.exe as administrator and cd to the directory where you downloaded the .bin file to08:59
krfkeithdone that09:00
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johnxflasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin -f -R09:00
felbutsshey guys its me again. im the guy with the bricked N90009:00
johnxfelbutss, hey, just walking someone through a flash.09:01
felbutssim in linux and just ran the flasher command and it says not found Suitable usb device09:01
johnxlet's see how it goes for krfkeith09:01
krfkeithfelbutss: I'm having the exact same issue as you09:01
johnxfelbutss, did it show the usb icon on boot?09:01
felbutssmy issue is the tut says to turn the device on when the cable is plug in but its not working. it will only turn on when no cable is plugged in09:01
felbutssis not plugged in*09:02
felbutssits still trying to boot for the charging state09:02
felbutssgood luck krfkeith09:02
felbutssi sure need it09:02
felbutsswhts wrong with urs? same issue as mine?09:03
johnxkrfkeith, once you've run that, turn off the device, then plug it in to usb, then turn it on09:03
felbutssthats the part im up to "then plug it in to usb, then turn it on" that part doesnt work for me. wont let me turn it on when a usb cable is attached lol09:03
krfkeithjohnx: I entered: flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R09:03
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krfkeiththe fw file is the in teh same dir as my flasher09:04
johnxkrfkeith, it should run and say "no suitable device found" or similar09:04
krfkeithand then waiting09:04
johnxonce it says that you're ready to follow the next steps09:04
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johnxfelbutss, so does it light up or do anything when you plug it into usb?09:04
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felbutssyep. i need nokia on the screen with no back light. and the yellow LED is solid then it disappears after a few seconds. then the whole device restarts and the same thing happens over and over09:05
felbutss*i see nokia on the screen09:06
johnxthat's pretty weird...let me test something here ...09:06
krfkeithjohnx: same problem here09:06
felbutssbut i can turn it on with no cable. the LED comes on solid white and i see Nokia in the background fully backlit. then it turns off09:07
krfkeithfelbutss: yep, I get the same thing09:07
johnxwell...I'm fresh out of ideas then :/09:07
felbutsslol two people in the same boat. lol09:08
johnxtry calling up nokia, one after another09:08
krfkeithyeah the flasher doesn't do anything09:08
johnxmaybe make sure you talk to the same person09:08
krfkeithfelbutss: did you win yours in a contest?09:08
felbutssil gonna call their head office right now and speak to the guys who gave me the phone09:08
krfkeithbecause I did09:08
felbutssdid u09:08
krfkeithwhich contest?09:09
johnxI'm actually at least half serious. they'll have to take it seriously if they have more than one person calling with same problem09:09
felbutssthe cityman contest09:09
krfkeithI got mine from PUSH09:09
felbutssdid u get a sample unit 209:09
krfkeithbut, there's a common denominator09:09
johnxfelbutss, are you sure you "won"? :)09:09
krfkeiththe box on mine says NOT FOR SALE09:09
felbutsslol yes09:09
AstralStormfelbutss: I suspect your device is bricked in the bootloader09:09
felbutssexactly the same09:09
johnxwhich is funny, cause I also have a "not for sale" unit from maemo summit09:10
AstralStormfixing this is possible only via JTAG connector...09:10
felbutsswe both got the same phone and have the same issue09:10
AstralStormfelbutss: the connector was in n8x0 near the battery09:10
johnxhaven't tried flashing since I flashed 42-11 though, so I'll do a quick test09:10
krfkeithAstralStorm: is that even worth trying to fix on our own?09:10
AstralStormthere may be various reason that it's bricked09:10
johnxkrfkeith, nope :)09:10
AstralStormfaulty flash chip is one09:10
felbutssim gonna call their head office now. we obviously both have dodgy units09:10
AstralStormthis you can't replace without specialized tools09:10
AstralStorm(esp. hotair station)09:11
felbutsswhat a minute09:11
krfkeithfelbutss: do I need to give you my name or anything?09:11
felbutsswait 1 sec lemi think09:11
krfkeithI know09:11
krfkeithextremely rude09:11
krfkeithI think we both got pre-production units09:12
AstralStormwho actually?09:12
AstralStormooh well, eng samples09:12
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felbutsshhmm all makes sense now09:12
AstralStormhappens sometimes with these09:12
felbutssi thought i was going mad09:12
AstralStormusually because they're put together by hand or are first production samples09:12
krfkeithfelbutss: me too09:12
johnxkrfkeith, well judging by how late in the game you got them, I kinda doubt they were pre-production in anything except software/firmware09:12
felbutssprivate PM im gonna get ur details and give u mine09:12
AstralStormthey tend to have more hardware failures09:12
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AstralStormjohnx: might've been some old supplies09:13
felbutssmaybe just a bad batch? who knows but we both won the phones and have the same issue09:13
johnxpossible I suppose09:13
johnxso when you plug in to usb, you see the dimmed nokia logo, the orange light stays solid09:13
AstralStormmhm, possible09:13
johnxdoes the screen ever turn off and switch to a flashing orange light?09:14
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AstralStormyes, if the Nokia logo shows, the bootloader is likely OK09:14
AstralStormand a flash should be possible - have to hold a certain key to enable it in n8x0, likely in n900 too09:14
johnxah, there it is09:15
johnxtry holding u while plugging in the usb cable09:15
felbutssill try now09:15
krfkeithhold what?09:16
johnxthe "u" button09:16
AstralStormjohnx: describe it spatially ;)09:16
krfkeithis tha the slider thing?09:16
johnxyeah, on the keyboard09:16
johnxsame key as 709:16
johnx(the numbers are the same on all key layouts, right?)09:17
krfkeithoh, litterally the U key09:17
AstralStormif this "stops" the bootloader on the nokia logo, try flashing09:17
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AstralStormthat should work - although no idea why it would "spontaneously combust" like that09:17
johnxAstralStorm, on mine, plugging in without u pressed, turned it on and it went to g_file_storage mode09:18
johnxwith u pressed it stayed in 'flashable' mode09:18
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felbutssthe LED came on solid yellow and the screen stayed black while i was holding 'U'09:19
felbutssim gonna call right now. ill let u guys know wht they say09:20
AstralStormthat sounds wrong09:20
felbutsswht time is it in finland09:20
AstralStormshould 8 AM09:20
AstralStormtoo early a bit09:20
AstralStormtry in 2 hours09:20
johnxstayed black? or is the backlight just off?09:20
felbutsscouldnt see anything on the screen09:20
Myrtti2009-11-26 09:20:5309:20
johnxthough my LED didn't turn yellow09:20
Myrttithat's the time in Finland09:20
felbutssok time 2 call09:21
krfkeithI gotta run guys09:21
felbutsscya mate09:21
AstralStormMyrtti: I was close :)09:21
krfkeiththanks for all the help09:21
johnx'later krfkeith09:21
krfkeithsee you all later09:21
johnxhope it works out for you09:21
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* Stskeeps pokes his coffee machine09:24
AstralStormwhy would you do that?09:25
Stskeepsto make it go faster09:25
* AstralStorm has concluded that certain people should never be allowed near an MP3 player with loudness calibration09:25
* Ford_Prefect huggles dbus-monitor09:25
AstralStormsomeone should build one (requires but a simple microphone for rough measurement - most MP3 players have one already)09:26
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Stskeeps <- wow, talk about putting yourself right in the line of fire09:27
* Stskeeps admires his courage09:28
AstralStormcourage doesn't win with dumb :)09:28
pupnikthe n900 xterm is so godly, i just have to click near a link and i can open a browser window09:28
pupnikand the youtube starts in browser as fast as on my older laptop09:28
* AstralStorm senses a real troll coming to this hot topic09:29
AstralStormpupnik: trivial, have that in urxvt on my PC already09:29
AstralStormxfce terminal also does this well09:29
AstralStormI always wondered why osso-xterm didn't09:29
AstralStormit's already libvte based09:29
pupnikperfect for screen plus irssi!  thaank you nokia!  thaank you inz!09:30
AstralStormirssi is overrated :)09:30
AstralStormas is screen09:30
pupniki did ot on n810 and it was a mess09:30
AstralStormirc bounces are far far better09:30
* RST38h curses tracker and gst-thumbnailer09:30
* AstralStorm loves his dircproxy09:30
pupniksimplicity, son09:30
RST38hBiggest waste of resources ever09:30
jaemAstralStorm, lies!09:30
johnxAstralStorm, screen is my god09:31
AstralStormjohnx: screen is good, but as good for irc sessions09:31
AstralStormxchat beats irssi in osso-xterm any day09:31
AstralStormand I can use it with the bounce09:31
AstralStormalso, it is more responsive than whole UI sent by ssh09:31
johnxah, that reminds me. was looking at nx ...09:31
pupniki went back to irssi because it is faster and better for me09:32
AstralStormit's still irc09:32
pupnikbe adult and i will too09:32
AstralStormit does take a bit less memory... and that might be important *sometimes*09:32
pupnikbe adult and i will too09:33
pupnikfaster to use09:33
AstralStormbut I value good UI vs rare swapping09:33
pupnikhit up arrow instead of return09:33
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pupnikno faster to scan channels09:33
AstralStormnot faster than the touchscreen-enabled xchat09:33
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pupnikfor me, faster09:34
AstralStormwith the button sort mod09:34
pupnikunderstand this is not an absolute measure, but an individual one09:34
AstralStorm(the defaault sort mode is horrid, true - it's alphabetic. I have one that sorts by recent message and priority, like irssi)09:34
AstralStormit is09:35
pupniki understand09:35
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AstralStormbut that's about the only drawback I can see in default xchat on n81009:35
RST38hIs Extras-Development dead again?09:35
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pupnikfingers off keyboard is one09:35
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AstralStormpupnik: why? you don't have to09:35
Markus23good morning09:35
AstralStormxchat has keyboard shortcuts on part with irssi09:35
AstralStorm(not to mention aliases)09:36
pupnik /ignore is another09:36
pupnikwhich xchat devs decided to ignore09:37
AstralStorm /ignore exists in xchat as well, heh09:37
pupniki talked to them09:37
AstralStormyes, that's a misdecision that has been corrected in various forks and plugins for it09:37
AstralStormonly lacking in newest xchat versions09:38
pupnikah cool09:38
johnxI just used ignore the other day in I going crazy? did the people I was ignorning just stop talking on their own suddenly?09:39
AstralStormno :)09:39
AstralStormI think pupnik is though.09:39
AstralStormwhen crazy is defined as "apart from reality"09:40
AstralStormurlgrabber plugins are essential for keyboard use, of course09:41
AstralStormthere are some for every reasonable irc client09:41
pupnik think xhat is powerful, just has some historic design that creates a few unintuitive processes for user, and arrogantly leaves some things unconfigured09:41
AstralStormthis doesn't work over screen09:41
AstralStorm(it'll try to open the url on the target machine)09:41
AstralStormsome things unconfigured? hmmh.09:42
AstralStormno idea what you're talking about :)09:42
pupnikanyway i thank inz for saving me from hilighting 8-point urls with stylus09:42
pupnikwas gonna go maul cats or smth09:43
AstralStormI thank my urlgrabber plugin for saving me from whipping out stylus altogether09:43
AstralStorm(urxvt can do this too, it has keyboard shortcuts for navigating urls, but that's harder and they tend to wrap)09:43
pupnikdude share the tricked-put xchat config09:44
AstralStormtricked out?09:44
pupniklike in package09:44
AstralStormit's very close to the default09:44
AstralStormonly python urlgrabber plugin09:44
AstralStormwhich needs no package.09:44
AstralStormoh, right09:44
AstralStormthe sorting mod is another plugin09:44
AstralStormlet me find those09:44
AstralStormI'll notify you later, because now I've to get to work :|09:45
pupnikyou are all part of a conspiracy to piss me off and make me maintain another fork.  get away! all of you!09:45
AstralStormwhat fork09:45
pupnikcheers ;)09:45
AstralStormthere's no fork09:45
AstralStormthose plugins are enabled in the build I have on n81009:46
AstralStormperl, python and ruby are supported09:46
AstralStorm(once you install the right interpreter that is and load the binding)09:46
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Stskeepswazd: hope your bios gets better09:47
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felbutssback. they have no idea.09:48
wazdStskeeps: llet's hope service will fix it :)09:48
felbutssim writing up an email for me and krfkeith09:48
felbutssdoes anyone have any email address from nokia???09:48
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johnxfelbutss, I wish we could figure out if your N900s might be from the same "batch"09:49
Stskeepsfelbutss: krfkeith's problem didn't happen after NSU though09:49
johnxdid you and krfkeith compare serial numbers09:49
johnxStskeeps, krfkeith said he just rebooted and it went reboot-loop on him09:50
johnxthey appear to have similar symptoms when booting by pressing 'u' and plugging in USB09:50
johnxand both have 'not for sale' N900s09:50
felbutssdam man. i put a lot of work into those contests. and money09:51
johnxfelbutss, ah, so as for serial number. Would you mind posting yours? or PMing me if you want?09:51
felbutssi sec09:51
johnxfelbutss, you did the PUSH thing? which project was yours?09:51
felbutssna i did the city man thing09:51
felbutssanother contest after push09:52
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Stskeepsdanielwilms: if winners of cityman & PUSH contest end up with a device that refuses to flash and is reboot looping, who'd be the right people to prod? (we've tried everything that is possible without a flashing jig)09:53
felbutssye this is so deppressing.09:54
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felbutssthanks stskeeps and johnx. good  guys09:56
Stskeepsfelbutss: at least you're taking the constructive route instead of contacting journalists :)09:56
felbutssna i wouldnt do that. lol i want nokia to fix it nice easy and quick09:57
Stskeepsbtw where did you get the "it" part of -Rit in your posts?09:57
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felbutssooo it was on the read me file when you install the flasher on a PC09:57
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danielwilmsStskeeps what is everything, which is possible? which image have you taken to flash? the one from tabletsdev? what is the error msg??09:57
dmj726Hey zaheerm09:58
Stskeepsdanielwilms: hang on, let me just locate the exact information09:58
johnxfelbutss, ah, so were you still here when we were talking about holding "u" and plugging in USB? I forgot...09:58
felbutsstryed that09:58
johnxand the result was?09:59
felbutssthis is day 3. wasted about 5 hours each day on this09:59
johnxblank screen? nokia screen? orange light?09:59
felbutssblank screen09:59
felbutsssolid yellow light09:59
felbutsssame with krfkeith09:59
johnxyeah, I remember krfkeith trying, but I didn't remember if both of you tried it, or if you had left to call nokia at that point10:00
Stskeepsfelbutss: could you locate the product version?10:00
felbutssna have tryed it before a few times. done everything on a MAC, linux and windows pc10:00
Stskeepsdanielwilms: first one failed half-way through NSU. it then refuses to show up in flasher with RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin , NOKIA logo does show though. battery charging attempted (without the N900), ./flasher -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R10:00
johnxthis is interesting, with regards to comparing our IMEIs:
Stskeepsfelbutss: because it might be that your device doesn't match with the firmware image10:01
felbutsstype: RX-51  code: 056082610:02
Stskeepsthere's a four-digit code somewhere10:02
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felbutssim looking inside the battery compartment10:02
Stskeepshmm, now i'm curiou which one too :)10:03
felbutssthis is what it says in order.    model: N900, type:RX-51, code:0560826, FCC iD: LJPRX-51, IC:661E-RX5110:04
felbutssand on the right of the sticker: 043410:04
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danielwilmsfelbutss what does it say when you try to reflash with the flasher itself and not with the NSU?10:06
danielwilmswhen does it stop?10:06
StskeepsSuitable USB device not found, on multiple computers and OS'es10:06
felbutssdoesnt sound right10:07
johnxI think the more interesting thing is that even when holding "u" to get into flasher mode, it still boots to a blank screen with the orange/yellow LED glowing10:07
danielwilmshow do you reflash? battery out - connect - start flasher - battery in? and still it does not find it??10:07
felbutssi can try that again now for u just incase but yes it did not work before hand. and i cant do the linux update because for some reason when i have the usb cable plugged in the device wont turn on. but it would turn on if the cable isnt plugged in10:09
danielwilmsfelbutss it might be that you have an issue with the battery10:10
felbutssnope didnt work10:10
felbutsshow so10:11
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Stskeepsfelbutss: you said you tried with a similar type battery from another device?10:11
felbutssthats wht i mean. lol confused me10:12
felbutssive tryed two batterys10:12
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johnxfelbutss, at any point in the past, have you walked under a ladder, crossed the path of a black cat or perhaps been cursed or hexed in any way?10:13
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felbutssit has been a bad week10:14
felbutssnot just with the phone10:14
felbutssthe phone was strick 310:14
johnxyeah, probably a curse then. or perhaps a karmic overdraft10:15
RST38hThe Battery God requires a sacrifice, that's all10:16
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felbutss ok im off guys. ill let u know later on how i went. gonna get another battery from a guy at work. he has another 580010:16
Pavlovanyone know how to get the n900 to re-sync google contacts?10:17
johnxI'm thinking: not the battery :) but that's just me10:17
RST38hGuy at work is gonna lose his battery real soon now...10:18
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RST38hheh...bunch of kiddies discussing how they valiantly enable Extras-Testing/Extras-Devel to get the latest versions of the emulators.10:22
RST38hbut none of them are voting for these emulators of course10:22
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* Sargun wonders where his N900 is10:22
RST38hThis "public qa" scheme was a really rotten idea, made up by people who obviously never stepped out of their computer rooms10:23
SargunRST38h, huh?10:23
SargunRST38h, I've seen you before10:23
pupnikhe is famous10:24
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meceRST38h, I don't really get it either.10:24
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pupnikyou prefer nokia picks?10:24
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suihkulokkiRST38h: I wouldn't shoot the scheme down yet.. a better voting UI and responsive site would make it work better10:25
RST38hSargun: do I have to hide now?10:25
pupnikif you have an app that needs votes, tell jus.  give url10:25
Sargunpupnik, How so10:25
RST38hsuihkulokki: this has been officially proposed and discussed weeks ago, jeremiah basically agreed with it, but do you see any changes?10:26
RST38hpupnik: Not THOSE votes ;)10:26
RST38hThose I can generate on my own, in hundreds, I am afraid :) Another hole in the system10:26
pupnikmake a smaller hole?10:27
RST38hpupnik: The ones here:  <== I still can't get 3 of my apps into Extras because nobody is testing10:27
RST38hWell, nobody is voting, anyway10:27
pupnikso only better code10:27
pupnikty i gol there now10:27
RST38hpupnik: they made the hole smaller but afaik it still exists and can be exploited. Hit that url with rating=5 several hundred times and your app is suddenly hot :)10:28
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pupnikabuse can be manually fixed if they h/e no time to code it i guess10:29
pupnikpage load slow10:29
RST38heverything is slow there, takes minutes to vote10:29
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pupnikow yes10:31
Stskeepsis it just me or does that casing look .. 80s?10:31
RST38hLooks like a sodomized DSi to me10:32
RST38hSide note: Nokia did beat Pandora folks with the release, just as predicted :)10:32
johnxRST38h, that's what they told the company making their molds (moulds?) :)10:32
pupnikall my web are slow atm10:32
johnxRST38h, yup. still came out closer than lots of people thought10:33
RST38hjohnx: true10:33
RST38hNext: Pandora vs Moller SkyCar !10:33
johnxthough by saying thhat I've jinxed it of course ...10:33
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pupniki think it is still a cool adventurous project10:36
johnxRST38h, how is iNES?10:37
RST38hjohnx: Fully working, afaik10:37
RST38hThe last change I have done was the Maemo-specific config dialog10:37
Pavlovoh, hm10:38
johnxI'll test and vote10:38
RST38hStill need to add file extension filter, proper About window with URL, and file-load-failed message but it is all non-crucial stuff10:38
RST38hjohnx: Better test and vote for fMSX, ColEm, and Speccy10:38
RST38hjohnx: iNES is already in the extras (older version though), but these three are not - people are not testing them =(10:39
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johnxRST38h, sorry, but I have nothing to test those with...10:41
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johnxwait, is fmsx == master system?10:42
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RST38hNo, fMSX==MSX10:42
RST38hjohnx: Bith Speccy and fMSX will boot into BASIC10:43
RST38hjohnx: (ok Speccy wil go into loader menu but anyway)10:43
RST38hjohnx: Actually, you can get stuff for all three, here is the explanation:
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pupnikon in maemo browsr, i cannot enter my username to vote on fmsx10:48
pupnikoh the text appeared with 20 second delay10:49
pupnikam i the only person on 42.11 who gets huge pauses entering text into webforms?10:50
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Stskeepspupnik: no, focus is a bit shady10:50
pupnik4 to 15 seconds10:51
pupnikwhere van i see page source on n90010:51
pupnikyes re focus also10:51
pupnik 1666  1170 user     R    72620 29.4 33.9 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 1666 -n browserui10:52
pupnik  722     1 pulse    S <   3296  1.3 21.8 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority10:52
suihkulokkiRST38h: MSX BASIC version 2.1 Copyright 1986 microsoft ?10:54
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suihkulokkiand that is ok to redistribute ?10:55
RST38hpupnik: I sometimes cannot enter anything at all, no response from the browser10:55
johnxadmittedly, playing games on the n900 keyboard is ... difficult10:56
RST38hsuihkulokki: most likely yes, people distributed it for years10:56
RST38hsuihkulokki: as it is mostly of archeological value (same goes for ZX Spectrum(10:56
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pupnikty RST38h10:57
suihkulokkiunfortunately what is ok for random people is probably not ok for large corporations (as is a tentacle of one such corp..)10:57
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andre__Numbers starting with * are called USSD. What's the name for numbers starting with #?10:59
RST38hsuihkulokki: Then MS will send a DMCA notice at some point and will have to take the file down10:59
RST38hsuihkulokki: I have never heard of this happening in relation to MSX stuff though10:59
suihkulokkione way to workaround the legal risk to someone else would be to download the files from the internets when first running the app11:00
RST38hsuihkulokki: Yea, probably, that would definitely prevent 99% of people from using the app11:00
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RST38hFor some more commercial stuff, like TI ROMs, I had to remove all the ROMs for calcs TI still sells from the package11:01
RST38hYou will now get a message telling you to supply your own ROM. For MSX it simply does not make sense11:01
pupniki can enter text to login now but i cannot log in to yet11:01
pupniki have time11:02
crashanddiesuihkulokki, isn't a tentacle of such corporation, there's a small distinction to make11:02
RST38hpupnik: Why not use a desktop PC though? =)11:02
pupnikit is off11:02
pupnikand sucks 100watts11:02
crashanddiesuihkulokki, is a community effort, for which Nokia pays the bills11:02
pupnikrst knows his apps11:03
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pupnikmaemo bugs is not loading - 2 minutes11:05
pupniksorry 5 now11:05
* Stskeeps puts on a six feet under episode11:06
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RST38hpupnik: trying to do this with n900 sucks time and effort =)11:06
pupnikwhy is the browser so slow? ;)11:06
pupnikit is the site11:06
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pupnikis t.m.o bogging it down?11:08
Stskeepsnah, different servers11:09
andre__jeremiah: any idea about (php issue in packages)?11:12
povbotBug 6301: Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/repository.php on line 54211:12
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Ford_PrefectIs there anything in the SDK to deal with accelerometers11:14
Ford_PrefectAs in tell it what the orientation should be11:14
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Ford_Prefectkalikiana, perfect, thanks!11:21
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lardmanmorning all11:28
peter-khi lardman11:29
peter-khow are you gyes11:30
lardmannot bad, you?11:30
peter-kjust so so11:30
peter-kwhere are you from lardman?11:31
lardmanhmm, /me thinks that this QR code encoding a .install file is rather large:
lardmanhmm, tinyurl methinks11:32
kalikianaor even better would be to setup shortcuts on maemo.org11:33
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kalikianathen you wouldn't even need any files11:33
lardmanyeah sure, just thinking about the physical size of the barcode, not the url length ;)11:33
kalikianaI mean, if would generate .install files for packages11:33
lardmanI think it does already...?11:34
kalikianathen why do you need to encode the whole file?11:34
lardmanI was just thinking of the case where I'm browsing on my PC, rather than N9|8x0, then I could just snap a picture and app manger will install it for me11:34
kalikianayou need network in that case anyway11:35
kalikianaso an url would be fine11:35
lardmanah true11:35
lardmanI see what you mean now11:36
lardmanI wonder if app manager can open a .install file from an URL, rather than having to spawn the browser to download the file, which then gets passed on?11:36
ali1234actually, that is a really good idea11:37
ali1234why should i have to type in a long url to an install file, when instead i can take a picture of the screen?11:37
lardmanwe aim to please11:37
vesaanyone have pointers where to look to get opengl es working with scratchbox/xephyr?11:38
lardmanI think javispedro has it working11:39
pupniknew record for pulseaudio cpu usage - spoken mp3 in mediaplayer - duration of peak about 10 seconds:11:39
ali1234vesa: dunno where to look. i heard it currently only works on x86 target11:39
pupnik  722     1 pulse    R <   3764  1.5 25.2 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority11:39
vesahmm. ok. will bug javispedro =)11:39
ali1234pupnik: you think 25% CPU usage for pulseaudio is high?11:39
ali1234i've seen it go about 35% on a P411:40
Pavlovanyone sort out how to sync your google contacts with your n900 -- ones beyond just your gtalk contacts?11:40
Pavlovor do i need to use activesync?11:43
pupniki see a war between googleites and freesearchers in 202511:44
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JaffaMorning, all11:48
javispedromorning Jaffa11:48
javispedrotada! did I hear someone needing OpenGL ES help?11:48
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javispedrovesa: what's your problem?11:49
lardmanmorning Jaffa javispedro11:50
vesajavispedro: indeed you heard correctly. having trouble getting opengl es working with scratchbox (ie. building works, running in scratchbox doesn't)11:51
vesarunning on device works well too11:51
javispedroit won't work in armel target11:51
javispedrothe libs there are not emulation but the real deal AFAIU11:51
vesayes, trying with X8611:52
javispedroand what you get? black screen? EGL error?11:52
vesashould it work out of the box or are there extra steps?11:52
javispedrogl es 2 should work out of the box, mostly.11:53
vesaok. then there might be a problem somewhere else. will doublecheck.11:53
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ali1234as i understand it, you need opengl 2.0 support in your host system in order to use the gl|es emulation libs11:53
javispedronot really, the sdk ships a libmesa soft11:54
ali1234hmm. well in that case, i'm having the same problem11:54
vesaand for the record i'm using the fremantle final vmware image11:54
javispedrohum... I've not tried with the latest libs yet.11:55
ali1234neither have i11:55
ali1234i have not tried it since the updated firmware and SDK11:55
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vesauh, haircut time. bbl ->11:56
ali1234ah i see11:57
ali1234there is no "libgles2" for x86 target11:58
javispedrothere is (apt-get install libgles2-dev)11:58
glass_vesa: didn't you get the memo? the longer the hair the less you have to do work11:58
javispedroand either way I guess that's not vesa's problem.11:58
ali1234yeah i guess11:58
ali1234but that package does not exist either11:58
javispedrovesa: try building and running
javispedroor ali1234 for the matter11:59
javispedroI'm away from my sbox box11:59
pupniki just ran in armel box.  why build x86 at all?11:59
ali1234will do11:59
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ali1234yeah i just run everything on the device11:59
ali1234that works perfectly11:59
ali1234but of course not everyone has one11:59
javispedroand x86 dev is faster11:59
pupnik*armel scratchbox12:00
ali1234meh, you know what's even faster? developing using a portable 3d engine like ogre...12:00
javispedrowell you ported it don't you? it's on extras laready?12:00
ali1234well i didn't put it there12:01
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ali1234but yeah, that's why i ported it... using raw EGL is just not worth it unless you're writing an engine, something i have no desire to do12:02
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javispedroI'd say EGL is just a bit harder than GLX. not rocket stuff.12:02
javispedrobutusing bare GL for any serious game is.12:02
ali1234(result of attempting to install libgles2-dev12:03
ali1234hmm i meant GLES12:03
javispedroenable extras non-free12:03
javispedrohmm extras-devel non-free actually12:03
ali1234specifically GL|ES 2.0 is a real pain12:03
ali1234cheers, i'll do that12:04
ali1234afaik every repo i added, i added to both targets...12:04
javispedronote that if you haven't patched it, the  xephyr colors bug will be there -- expect orangeness instead of blueness12:04
ali1234maybe it will be double bugged, and come out right?12:05
Stskeepsjavispedro: we have colors bug in mer vmdk.. what was the url for the bugfix again?12:05
ali1234actually i might have hit the nail on the ehad there12:05
javispedroStskeeps: you're not using the maemo libclutter thus my workaround doesn't apply there :(12:05
Stskeepsjavispedro: we are now12:05
ali1234someone is working on the gl|es backend right? maybe they worked around the bug instead of patching xephyr?12:05
javispedrobug 487012:06
povbotBug Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK12:06
Stskeepsjavispedro: updated snapshot to latest gitorious tree12:06
ali1234thus causing the reverse bug when running on real device12:06
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javispedroI don't know anything about the device having that bug12:06
ali1234what i mean is12:06
javispedronot the same bug if it does12:06
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ali1234say i'm porting ogre in the SDK and i notice the colours are swapped, so i put a work around in ogre. now it looks ok in the SDK. when i run it on the device, the colours will be swapped, if the device doesnt have the same bug12:07
* timeless_mbp cries12:07
javispedroali1234: ah, I get it.12:07
javispedroyeah, that would be pretty funny.12:07
timeless_mbpStskeeps: so... qwerty wrote some code for me12:07
timeless_mbpand it works in Maemo5 but not in Mer12:07
ali1234i guess we will find out if i get it running in the SDK12:08
Stskeepsjavispedro: patch applies12:09
javispedrowe'll, waiting the news :)12:09
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dmj726is the browser ui closed?12:10
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lardmansuch a pain not being able to run my app from the command line12:11
javispedrodmj726: yes...12:11
dmj726I was hoping to see how they did the swirly zoom gesture.12:12
dmj726Is that a standard maemo gesture or proprietary to the browser?12:12
javispedroI was hoping to see some system-wide lib for detecting it now that the zoom buttons are for "volume"12:12
lardmanbut with Qt there will be a gesture layer iirc12:13
dmj726too bad.12:14
Stskeepsif you want us to submit a mere request to clutter, do say12:14
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javispedrothis is very specific to the maemo clutter12:14
Stskeepsto maemo clutter, i mean12:14
dmj726perhaps I should just co-opt the volume buttons12:14
javispedrowell if you to ask them...12:15
dmj726that seems mean though12:15
javispedroI'd like some review though (someone checking if my assumptions are true)12:15
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Stskeepsjavispedro: let's test if it works first and then we can suggest a merge request12:15
javispedroof course.12:15
Stskeepsjavispedro: stupid question, is your patch reversed?12:16
javispedroseems not12:17
Stskeepsjust had to understand it :)12:17
javispedrothe basic idea is to12:18
javispedrofix the typo in the packed_pixels ext detection,12:18
javispedroand allow use of GL_UNSIGNED_SHORT_5_6_5  even if that extension is not present12:18
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javispedrosince (and that's what I'd like checked) GL_UNSIGNED_SHORT_5_6_5 comes with ogl 1.2 and not packed_pixels12:18
javispedropacked_pixels comes with RGBA_4444, etc.12:19
javispedro(the extension is present in any sane version of mesa either way, so the second part shouldn't actually matter)12:20
javispedrobut it's just there for pickiness and the fact that vmgl does not support packed_pixels12:21
javispedro(but does support _5_6_5, therefore proving my point and ending my monologue)12:21
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Markus23is there jfs support build in maemo 5 kernel?12:25
Markus23why isn't /home a much larger ext2?12:25
lardmanIf I'm writing debugging info to a file, do I need to flush it after each write?12:25
javispedrohome IS in a much large ext3.12:25
javispedrowell, 2 GiB large.12:25
* Markus23 thinks it is strange that /home/user/MyDocs is using VFAT12:26
Stskeepsnot relly12:26
Stskeepsable to use for mass storage12:26
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Markus23ok, I can change it anyways12:26
* javispedro has MyDocs on VFAT on his N810 just for that reason..12:26
Markus23is jfs support?12:26
Markus23is/is there12:27
javispedrodon't think so, but if you can build it as a module...12:27
Markus23ahh, ok12:27
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TomaszDyou guys, vote for OMweather's iconsets ok? else there never gonna show up in extras12:32
timeless_mbpdmj726: the zoom gesture iirc is in the gecko side12:32
timeless_mbpnot the browser-ui side12:32
* javispedro ponders if he's allowed to vote iconsets without the device ;)12:33
javispedromorning Lorthirk12:34
RST38hof course you are :)12:34
Lorthirkhas anyone had problems with nokia's headphones and n900?12:34
ali1234only involving the fm radio, and that's fixed now12:35
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Lorthirkn900 won't recognize my headphones12:36
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Lorthirkbut the jack is working, since any other headphones and the a/v cable are working fine12:37
Lorthirkand the nokia headphones are ok too, since they works on an iphone12:37
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ShadowJKwhere "my headphones" is the nokia headphone?12:38
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javispedrooh, so THERE IS a way to bypass QA ;912:42
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Lorthirkbut now... what to do?12:44
Lorthirkcalled nokia shop, told me to call nokia care12:44
Lorthirkcalled nokia care, told to ask nokia shop for a PHONE replace12:45
ali1234javispedro: ok, got the libs installed, had to "ln -s" before anything would work, and i still get nothing but a black window12:45
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ali1234actually that makes me think it is working, cos if you open a window and don't draw anything, it's green12:46
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ali1234indeed, if i set clear colour to red, i get an empty red window :)12:48
javispedroso it's working?12:48
ali1234yeah looks like it12:48
ali1234just not drawing any geometry12:48
ali1234but probably the sim exploded12:48
ali1234by app expects the accelerometer12:48
zaheermw00t, were you told by that they ran out of stock?12:48
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w00tzaheerm: i've been repeatedly told multiple things to the point where I've pretty much given up on calling them12:50
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zaheermw00t, so anyways i plan on going to regent street and buying it there and then cancelling the silly order when that is done12:51
ali1234hmm that's weird. disable the accelerometer reading, and the output is kind of ... not what i expected. oh well, it's working anyway12:51
w00tI was considering similar but not quite identical action12:51
w00ti.e. just going to amazon or something and waiting a while12:51
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w00tthey have infinitely better customer service even if I do have to wait a while12:51
zaheermw00t, they told me on tuesday oh don't worry plenty of stock, muppets then told me today oh we ran out of stock waiting for new stock which is arriving in a week12:51
w00t..yeah, I got told the 'plenty of stock' thing too, as well as 'it'll ship today' two days ago12:52
zaheermthey don't have a clue12:52
zaheermthe phone isn't even for me, it is for thomasvs12:52
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w00tit's certainly left a bad impression on their retail for me12:52
zaheermand i'm going to barcelona on wed to give to him12:53
infobotzaheerm meant: and i'm going to barcelona on thu to give to him12:53
jorma_just got my n900 5 mins ago!!!!12:53
Stskeepsjorma_: congrats :) check your microphone, headset and screen12:53
zaheermlooks like mastercard did a auto denial on nokia12:53
jorma_stskeeps: yeah12:53
TomaszDStskeeps, haha, that's exactly what I was typing12:53
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* w00t grins12:54
Stskeepsjorma_: and charge your device fully before reflashing12:54
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bilboedzaheerm, looks like mastercard really doesn't like the Nokia online stores12:54
bilboedzaheerm, same screwup happened with me for the N810 program (ordered 3 times, cancelled 3 times, never got the device)12:54
w00tI don't have a mastercard, mine was done via debit card, and the most annoying point is, as far as my bank is concerned, it went through12:55
w00tso I still have a £1k hold on my account that nokia refuses to believe exists12:55
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bilboedw00t, the money was taken straight away those 3 times... then refunded a week later12:55
ali1234best thing to do in those situations is go into the branch and start complaining very loudly12:55
bilboed(it's a debit mastercard, can't stand credit)12:55
bilboedali1234, branch <===== lightyears =====> online store12:56
ali1234they can't do anything in branch, but they can get you directly through to the "special" customer services that can actually fix the problem12:56
bilboedthey have virtually nothing in common12:56
w00tali1234: I spent the better part of yesterday pinging and ponging from the bank to nokia to try get it sorted out12:56
ali1234right, phoning up is a waste of time12:56
Stskeepsw00t: you can go claim the hold is fraudulent as they have cancelled the order12:56
Stskeepsand show proof of cancellation12:56
ali1234you have to complain loudly and publicly in the branch. make a scene12:56
bilboedbring a baseball bat12:56
Stskeepsand a S/M mask12:56
w00tStskeeps: you know, I'm quite tempted to do that, if it weren't for the fact that it might make them think the next transaction were fradulent :-P12:57
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* RST38h moos12:59
zaheermnokia flagship uk store said 4th december13:01
w00tthose dates just keep getting further and further away13:01
zaheermthe "launch" of the n900 is 4th december13:01
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zaheermthe retail side of nokia needs a big kick up the arse13:02
w00tI wonder when they'll push that date back like the last 30 they've given out13:02
maexmogood morning13:02
w00tI think the twitter announcement was the best13:02
zaheermearlier this week, store said thursday, latest friday13:02
fralsbe glad your not in sweden, we wont get until after first update is released ;-)13:03
zaheermfrals, i guess so :)13:03
w00tfrals: at the current rate, neither will I13:03
w00tzaheerm: and last week, they said that last week13:04
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zaheermw00t, maybe the executive decision was that everyone has to wait for sweden :)13:04
w00tthat implies there was thought and coordination :P13:05
zaheermw00t, lol13:05
shdn900 has some patching to do.. nc -l -p 1234 >/dev/null and nc host 1234 </dev/zero crashes N900 in ad hoc mode13:05
Stskeepsshd: report the crash?13:06
shdthe reason is, some daemon does software reset on the device13:06
shdnot really crashes, but daemon forces software reset13:06
shdStskeeps: of course13:06
Stskeepsof course, if the system is way too overloaded13:06
shdbut imo, pumping zero with tcp is not overloading.. it's pretty normal load for data traffic13:06
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shdand this only happens if the wlan is in ad hoc mode, not infrastructure mode13:07
shdcleaning the sources list from /etc/apt  (taking everything away) makes this bug go away :D13:07
julianoliveris there an equivalent to the iwtools suite for Maemo5?13:08
shdjulianoliver: yes, put extras into source list, and install wireless-tools13:08
julianoliverahh.. great. thanks..13:08
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javispedro<tmo mode>Nokia Spain is shipping</tmo mode>13:12
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khertanHi ...13:13
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khertanis there a way to have some priviledge on his own product on maemo bugzilla ?13:14
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khertani cannot confirm bug on my own product13:14
khertanjust add comment13:14
andre__khertan, uhm?13:14
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andre__khertan, blame me :)13:15
andre__khertan, which product?13:15
fnordiansliphi.  happy to get my new n900 yesterday.  so far so good, although it's taking a while to get used to its size.  i'v e noticed that the browser can lose keybd focus if something goes on in the background, i.e. app manager finishes an installation. has anyone else noticed this?13:15
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andre__khertan, well, you're not listed as default assignee :)13:15
julianoliverfnordianslip: yes13:16
khertanbut i think it ll be the same for the other product13:16
khertanandre__: how can i do it ?13:16
andre__khertan, better now? :-)13:16
andre__just fixed it13:16
andre__fnordianslip, known issue, moment13:16
khertanah ok thank13:16
julianoliverfnordianslip: indeed the N900 isn't very trouser pocket friendly.. probably more catered to jackets.13:17
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fnordianslipjulianoliver: its the lack of size, not an excess of it, that i'm finding hard to deal with13:17
andre__fnordianslip, - will be fixed in a future update13:18
povbotBug 6060: Application manager finishing an installation in background blocks keyboard input13:18
julianoliverfnordianslip: haha. you may be the first.13:18
fnordianslipandre__: thanks13:19
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khertanhum ... i ve a strange things here13:22
khertanpython... import gdata no module nammed gdata13:23
khertanpython-gdata installed13:23
khertanand pymaemo-optify ... <<<--- maybe the problem13:23
* ShadowJK has had jeans that fit unfolded flipphones13:24
lizardo_khertan: is thi on N900 ? or on sbox ?13:24
khertanlizardo_: on n90013:24
khertani was trying to upload a post with mastory ... but didn't work so i look what happen on xterm13:25
lizardo_khertan: let me try here :) did you installed gdata after or before upgrading the python version that installed pymaemo-optify ?13:25
khertanit s could come from gdata package13:25
khertanremoving ... reinstall ... (same package) now work13:26
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khertanwas installed before the maemo-optify13:27
lizardo_khertan: it worked here13:27
khertandon't know why13:27
khertandon't bother with this13:27
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lizardo_khertan: strange, pymaemo-optify always migrate the old content from /usr/lib/>... directories before installing it, so that packages already installed continue to work (I tried it many times with other packages) maybe fore some reason it failed to do so (but in this case I think the instalation would have failed) I'll try to reproduce the problem13:28
lizardo_at least I've seen no other reports of breakage :)13:28
khertanlizardo_: i ven't any other broken things13:29
khertani ve try to with pygtkeditor ...13:29
khertanbefore ... after ... before ...13:29
khertanbut launching python apps doesn't work well while the package pymaemo-optify is installing13:30
lizardo_khertan: yes, that's kind unavoidable, because it moves things around :/13:30
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khertanyep of course13:30
khertanbut ... i ve try for the fun13:31
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julianoliveris there a server side search interface akin to i would like to see what's in repositories not in my sources.list.13:32
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khertanlizardo_: did you know if it s a bug or something that i could fix in python13:33
povbotBug 6254: FileChooserDialog didn't display files or folders icon13:33
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julianoliverjavispedro: thanks.. should've guessed.13:33
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* julianoliver notes is extremely slow.13:34
lizardo_khertan: we didn't have time do triage this bug yet :/ but IIRC at least one PyMaemo dev reproduced it, but we still need to check whether it is something missing on Python code or actually a bug13:34
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khertanlizardo_: ok thx13:34
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lizardo_khertan: as soon as I get some update on it (e.g. workarounds) I'll comment on the bug13:35
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javispedroStskeeps: so, did my workaround work?13:36
Stskeepsjavispedro: OBS is a bit broken atm so waiting for it13:36
timeless_mbpjaem: ok, i'm told that /bin/cp doesn't do what i thought it did13:37
timeless_mbpso i think i might have a fix :)13:37
timeless_mbpwith that, i can probably worry less about restarting :)13:38
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RST38hmourning indeed13:43
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hrw~curse ddp13:45
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ddp !13:45
RST38hwhat again?13:45
adeusis there a way to clone a scratchbox target?13:45
hrwRST38h: cursing ddp for delay once per day helps to keep sanity13:45
javispedroyet another gloriuous morning of no ddp =)13:46
RST38hhrw: What if they send you a device with the broken mic? =)13:46
javispedromic is overrated13:46
javispedrowho needs to place actual phone calls?13:46
StskeepsRST38h: at least there's 1 week warranty13:46
* RST38h is only going to get his in January, so if the mic is broken, he cannot find it in the first week and return13:46
RST38hjavis: Yea, it is not a phone after all13:46
RST38hStskeeps: Does not help me13:47
hrwRST38h: I have few other phones to shout at them13:47
RST38hjavis: It is a mobile computer!13:47
hrwmy music player has 25KB binary and no device to use it on13:47
RST38hcommand line music player?13:50
javispedromuch like what palm did with the foleo, it inherits both the worst aspects of a phone and the worst aspects from a mobile computer13:51
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javispedroso it is neither a phone nor a mobile computer but a monster =)13:52
julianolivermy N900 is a European model. does this mean I should use the 'Global' flasher image?13:52
adeusonly if you're on earth13:53
julianoliverlardman: cheers13:53
julianoliveradeus: ahh, good catch. speaking of which, wireless reception is exceptional from the ISS.13:53
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lardmanInternational Space Station?13:54
fnordianslip've sent packets of sata through the ISS using my ham radio kit13:55
fnordiansliper, data13:55
javispedrojulianoliver: remember to try IrDA if you ever get in a spaceship flying at 0.3c13:56
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julianoliverjavispedro: i certainly will.13:56
RST38hHmmm.... the no-mic thing is causing a major shitstorm13:57
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julianoliverRST38h: what proportion shipped have this problem?13:58
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RST38hHow do I know?13:59
RST38hApparently, many13:59
julianolivera shame indeed.13:59
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javispedroRST38h: knowing how tmo works, with only ONE failed shipped mic there would be a similar shitstorm.13:59
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SpeedEvilAnyone else had their card/... charged from, and no further contact or indication it's shipping after several days?14:00
RST38hjavis: Yea, although this does not appear to be the case14:00
RST38hYes, and they returned the money after a week or so14:00
RST38hIn related news..."iPhone owners with mates in Afghanistan will have a hard time keeping track of them, as the handset doesn't admit the existence of the country in its contacts application."14:01
javispedroah, as usual, everyone posted their IMEI codes on the board14:01
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javispedro............ sigh.14:01
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javispedrothere goes my free tablets-dev image :)14:02
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RST38hevil, pure evil, like you couldn't do it any other way...14:02
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javispedrohey, I'm still an evil newbie.14:03
javispedrobut yeah, the moment engadget grabs the story it's the end of the world as we know it.14:04
RST38hthe next upcoming end of the world...14:05
w00tSpeedEvil: i'd double check that the payment wasn't "declined"14:05
w00t(where declined in that context can really mean declined, or declined because nokia hates you)14:05
SpeedEvilw00t: It's still out of my account14:06
w00tSpeedEvil: mine too, but nokia said it got declined :-)14:06
SpeedEvilw00t: as in a bank transfer14:06
* SpeedEvil rings them14:07
javispedroI have to admit, it would be somewhat shaming If I have to unpack a 600$ device only to try to make a phone call with it and fail =)14:07
w00tjavispedro: yeah. kind of makes you wonder if the QA people had a hard night on the booze14:08
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javispedroor if it's a sw issue.14:09
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rangeDoesn't look like it - drivers get loaded afaics (on tmo):14:09
w00tyou'd expect that, then, to affect all or none, no?14:09
w00tidentical hardware, identical software, should lead to identical effects14:09
tbfjavispedro: do you know what regularly causes is empty ?14:09
rangeIt just doesn't show a capture interface.14:09
javispedrotbf: race conditions caused by X-Fade being on holidays. As soon as he returns, whithout him doing anything, problems will disappear.14:10
javispedrodoesn't show a capture interface?14:10
javispedrothen how could that be a hw problem? hw is dumb.14:10
lardmanspeaking of X-Fade, has he been online all this time?14:10
lardman~seen X-Fade14:10
SpeedEvilw00t: 'still waiting for confirmation from the warehouse that it's shipped.'14:10
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo (8h 28m 38s), last said: 'lcuk: tonight doesn't specify an end :)'.14:11
lardmanah, he's back14:11
w00tSpeedEvil: curious14:11
javispedroah, so my theories are wrong.14:11
lardmanX-Fade: wb14:11
w00tSpeedEvil: in other words, they lost your phone14:11
SpeedEvilw00t: :)14:11
tbfjavispedro: so let's hope X-Fade comes back soon and fixes those races :-)14:12
SpeedEvilw00t: maybe they'll be sufficiently confused to send you one without payment.14:13
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w00tSpeedEvil: latest news on my reorder: "I think the payment succeeded" (although my bank doesn't think they even asked for it) and "it'll ship today" (which I've heard for the past 3 days)14:13
lardmandoes anyone know how latitude works?14:13
SpeedEvillardman: it's how far north or south you are on the earth. The equator is 0, and the poles are +-9014:13
lardmanI meant, my fault, Google Latitide14:14
zaheermSpeedEvil, latest news on mine, ran out of stock due in a week...14:14
rangejavispedro: Because there phyiscally is no capture interface, when/if the mic is broken?14:14
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rangePhysically even.14:14
lardmanLatitude even14:14
SpeedEvilOops - sorry - I've not woken up really yet.14:14
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zaheermnothing been debited by nokia from my credit card apart from the first attempt that got declined on monday14:15
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lardmanI mean Google Maps is available on lots of platforms, and they all support Latitude, surely someone has done some data interception14:16
javispedrorange: isn't the mic connected to an analog connection?14:17
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Davidehey any idea why when connected to my ubuntu desktop from my tablet through vnc, I cannot see the changes when minimizing maximizing windows or opening programs...?14:18
Davideanyone use the vncviewer?14:18
rangejavispedro: I have no phone, Nokia Germany fails to deliver :)14:19
Davidecould it have to do with compiz?14:19
rangeSo I cannot look. That is just what I took out of the threads on tmo.14:19
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javispedrobut I'm pretty sure, if they're using the standard omap codec, that it's an analog connection14:20
javispedroin which case sw detecting ANYTHING would mean sw problem14:21
lizardo_khertan: I just commented on :) I proposed a workaround there14:21
povbotBug 6254: FileChooserDialog didn't display files or folders icon14:21
javispedroor a deep shit omap problem14:21
javispedrowhich I doubt.14:21
lizardo_khertan: BTW that "GtkWarning: Invalid icon size 0"  is unrelated to the bug (it also appears on C code)14:21
lardmanI wonder if that could be hacked to work for us....14:24
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crashanddie_lardman: same T&C as for Google Maps14:28
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lardmanyeah well14:28
crashanddie_lardman: only allowed to use the APIs for websites14:28
lardmanportable website, webruntime, etc14:29
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hrwQt 4.6 is available already in maemo5?14:30
lardmandoes it compile now?14:30
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evohi guys, I have a problem with maemo browser; I want to write a ` character (grave accent) inside the password field, but virtual keyboard (both Italian and English) don't let me to put just it, they want me to add a letter after ... how can I force it to accept the accent only? thanks!14:32
andre__evo, click twice14:33
andre__or press space after14:33
evothanks :)14:33
evoI'm really enjoying maemo5 on my n900, thanks to all of you guys :)14:33
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timeless_mbpandre__: wow14:33
timeless_mbpi didn't realize that rtcom guys monitor bugs.maemo.org14:34
andre__hrw, not yet AFAIK. ?14:34
andre__timeless_mbp, moving slowly. but I've had a few nice surprises in the last weeks of Nokians actually talking to users out there ;-)14:34
timeless_mbps/there/here/ ? :)14:34
javispedroand even Exchange guys monitoring tmo :)14:35
timeless_mbpas in MS E or MfE ?14:35
timeless_mbpbecause internally we can't get them to fix our MS E svr14:35
hrwandre__: I do not care about maemo614:35
andre__javispedro, that's the coolest pleasure to me today14:35
andre__hrw, fine.14:35
hrwandre__: when maemo6 will be released users of n900 will be forced to buy n100014:35
hrwandre__: so far I plan to have n900 but avoid gtk as much as possible14:36
javispedroprobably. and it will be like november 2009 all again.14:36
andre__hrw: so instead?14:36
timeless_mbpno one ever forced me to buy an SNES14:36
timeless_mbpor an n6414:36
timeless_mbpor hrm... did i miss one?14:36
javispedroall the gameboy variations14:36
timeless_mbpand i haven't even been forced to buy a Wii14:37
hrwtimeless_mbp: I meant: I doubt that maemo6 will work on n90014:37
timeless_mbpeven though i own an NES and a GB14:37
andre__evo, and feel free to vote for :-P14:37
povbotBug 5314: Third row of special characters are deadkeys, no hint about that14:37
timeless_mbpandre__: do i want to know why that bug is RESO FIXE ?14:38
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povbotBug 5314: Third row of special characters are deadkeys, no hint about that14:38
timeless_mbpandre__: no14:39
lardmanhrw: I think it probably will14:39
timeless_mbpassuming that the dead keys don't look distinct when they are *not* highlighted14:39
timeless_mbpthen the bug isn't fixed14:39
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timeless_mbpeven my pre sales shows a highlight when a deadkey is triggered14:39
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* julianoliver notes people are saying mic works after reboot:
* timeless_mbp thinks OMWeather crashed hildon-desktop14:39
timeless_mbpis it supposed to do that when it updates?14:40
lardmanlol @ mic14:40
lardmana "feature" you reckon? ;)14:40
fralshmm.. head to the pub or freshen up my C... choices, always choices ;<14:41
julianoliverfrals: bit early for the pub no?14:41
javispedrofrals: forget C, forget the pub, and waste your time in tvtropes.org14:41
lardmanit's after 11 somewhere in the world14:41
fralsjulianoliver: as a student i have to disagree ;-)14:41
julianoliverlardman: "pubs" are generally in Britain. "bars" are usually everywhere else ;)14:42
zapin dmesg I have "onenand_wait: controller error = 0x2440" and then "Buffer I/O error on device mtdblock4, logical block 53568". Is this the end?14:42
lardmandoing wonders there for the appreciation of students i see frals ;)14:42
timeless_mbpandre__: the problem with the deadkeys is presentational14:42
fralsstudentpub opens at 11, and its already 13:40 here ;)14:42
timeless_mbpat the flat state when the soft view opens14:42
lardmanjulianoliver: we have bars too, they are located in pubs ;)14:42
timeless_mbpthose things should have a different outline14:43
lardmanactually we have bars too, different to pubs tho14:43
andre__timeless_mbp, actually I'm surprised that in t.m.o a Nokian clearly said what's currently not supported in Mail for Exchange. I've been waiting for weeks for this. Hope that a braindead manager does not kill him for this...14:43
timeless_mbpand they should have some box below their icon to indicate that they compose14:43
TomaszDjulianoliver, I'd have to disagree on that. Here bars is where you eat, pubs is just alcohol and snacks.14:43
julianoliverlardman: TomaszD where's "here" ?14:43
andre__timeless, battle internally with the managers. i've already spent hours on this and even became insulting.14:43
lardmanTomaszD: other way round over here14:43
TomaszDjulianoliver, Poland.14:43
lardmanhere is the UK for me14:43
TomaszDheh, that's funny, somewhere someone got things mixed up and now it's like it is14:44
fralsi use the words interchangeably (sp?)14:44
javispedrozap: probably not.14:44
julianoliverthey should just be referred to as 'Havens of Unproductivity'14:45
julianoliver'haven' for short..14:45
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zapjavispedro: do you have any idea why this error appears?14:46
javispedrozap: no, but I'd guess bad block.14:46
zapJFFS2 warning: (2154) jffs2_sum_write_sumnode: Not enough space for summary, padsize = -100114:46
zapI see this too14:46
javispedroagain, normal.14:46
zapdoes jffs2 mark bad blocks somehow?14:47
javispedroyes, that's one of its main jobs14:47
javispedroand the reason it runs over the mtd layer instead of block14:47
zapis it? I had the impression that mtdblock4 is mounted as root14:47
zapor you mean mtdblock is not a regular block device14:48
javispedromtdblock is mtd device14:48
javispedroaka "raw flash"14:48
zapthat happened when I tried to backup my mtdblock4 with dd, so it is possible that JFFS2 marked it as bad already, right?14:48
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zapanybody knows whats the best way to backup the rootfs so that it could be restored even if maemo doesn't boot?14:50
zapI'm going to do Very Bad Things with it and I wouldnt like to reinstall the firmware from scratch every time14:51
infobotflashing is probably
javispedromisread, sorry.14:52
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Stskeepszap: on my n900 i rsync -aHx / to my ext2/3 SD, copy over a typical /dev, and make a ubifs out of t14:52
Stskeepswhich i then can reflash14:53
zapwhat is ubifs?14:53
Stskeepsjffs2 replacement in n90014:53
zapnever heard of it14:53
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lardmanhmm, interesting:
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lardmanI wonder if we could provide data to that service, and receive a current address, but also I wonder if we will then appear on Latitude...14:58
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kyndeDoes the location widget work on N900 on others? mine worked yesterday but can14:59
kynde't download maps today... :(14:59
lardmanwhat do you mean?15:00
lardmanthe desktop widget?15:00
kyndeyes, that one.15:00
lardmanit just shows your location15:00
julianoliverhmm.. N900 does seem snappier after the firmware upgrade.15:00
TomaszDbecause it is15:00
julianoliverlet's see if mounting now works..15:01
RST38hArkenoi: here?15:01
kyndelardman: I know, but I haven't gotten it to start all day. I start it, it tries to do something (no maps visible) and then complains about it not being able to download map data.15:01
RST38hArkenoi: complain here:
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lardmankynde: ah, probably a problem with the Nokia server then15:01
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kyndelardman: ack, I'll wait and see...15:02
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lardmanso would e.g. phonegap be able to display google maps?15:04
* lardman not being a web dev at all15:04
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fnordianslipany irc clients yet for n900 ?15:07
lardmanah, that's the one, knew it had an x in it ;)15:07
fnordianslipare they in the repos?15:07
julianoliverthe best IRC client, irssi, is available.15:08
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fnordianslipjulianoliver: must be in testing then, as i can't see it with an apt-cache search15:09
julianoliverfnordianslip: ugh, my mistake. os2006:
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julianoliverfnordianslip: it was here apparently
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fnordianslipjulianoliver: tnx for info.currently having problems with app man not updating from repos15:13
julianoliverthe repos have problems, intermittently. the well-known 401 error usually.15:14
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wazdNew phone, new bios, beautiful day)15:15
fnordianslipok.  i can't update either Nokia Applications or Nokia System Software Updates, and I can't install the mirror app or Documents To Go.  is that the usual repo problem at work?15:15
Stskeepswazd: bios repair worked?15:15
julianoliverdoes the N900 always need to be powered off before mounting under linux?15:15
wazdStskeeps: yep15:15
Stskeepswazd: congrats :)15:15
julianoliversimply plugging it in gives
wazdStskeeps: they told me so :D15:16
wazdStskeeps: heading back home15:16
Stskeepsjulianoliver: did you set it to mass storage mode?15:16
julianoliverStskeeps: i've had no such option/prompt.15:16
wazd5130 is damn loud phone15:17
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Lorthirkgreat, i have to return my phone15:17
Stskeepsjulianoliver: on the n900? really? :P15:17
julianoliverStskeeps: where can i find the dialog/setting?15:17
Stskeepsjulianoliver: it appears when plugging into usb15:17
julianoliverStskeeps: hmm.. not here.15:17
julianoliveri will try a reboot. just upgraded the firmware.15:17
Lorthirkjulianoliver: upgraded to which version?15:18
Stskeepsyou might need to reflash mmc oo?too15:18
hrwzap: ubifs is very nice replacement for jffs215:18
julianoliverLorthirk: RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.42-11_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin15:18
Lorthirkso the one i have15:19
Lorthirkthanks anyway15:19
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* Lorthirk feels REALLY angry.15:19
Stskeepssomeone should make a penguin punching bag15:19
julianoliverLorthirk: are you having issues with this version?15:19
Lorthirki'm having issues with headphones15:19
Lorthirkit seems that the only thing i can do is return the phone15:20
Lorthirkand get another one who knows when15:20
julianoliverLorthirk: what is happening?15:20
julianoliver(or /not/ happening)15:20
* julianoliver clicks15:20
julianoliverLorthirk: odd15:20
Lorthirkas said in the topic i can't find who to blame15:21
Lorthirkthe headphones, the phone...15:21
julianoliveraside from the headphones, does audio function normally?15:22
julianoliver(mic also)15:22
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Lorthirki can hear people talking and they can hear me15:22
PaulFertserLorthirk: what do you mean "the phone doesn't recognise"?15:22
Lorthirki have a theory...15:22
PaulFertserLorthirk: do you expect to see an input event on plugging or what?15:22
julianoliverPaulFertser: read his post..15:23
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Lorthirkwell, when plugging a working headphone i can see the icon in the status bar15:23
Lorthirkjulianoliver: can you point me to the download location of the file you said before?15:23
PaulFertserjulianoliver: i did. "the phone simply doesn't recognize them". That doesn't make sense to me kernel-wise.15:23
Lorthirkmaybe reflashing could help me15:23
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LorthirkPaulFertser: i'm speaking of ui15:23
PaulFertserLorthirk: i think debugging UI before making sure HW and the kernel work is mostly useless.15:24
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PaulFertserbut it's my very humble opinion.15:24
LorthirkPaulFertser: where can i see kernel outputs?15:24
julianoliverStskeeps: after reflash and reboot, the prompted mounting works as you describe.15:25
PaulFertserLorthirk: dmesg? And input devices report events via /dev/input/event*, you can decypher the output with input-events tool, usually comes in input-utils package or similar.15:25
SpeedEvilPaulFertser: and mine.15:25
Lorthirkok, i'll tell you in seconds15:25
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LorthirkPaulFertser: headphone (GPIO 177) is now connected15:28
PaulFertserLorthirk: nice, so it's actually recognised by the kernel.15:29
PaulFertserLorthirk: is it the same when you plug (semi-)working iphone HP?15:29
Lorthirkindeed this is when i insert the semi-working iphone hp15:29
Lorthirkunfortunately now i'm at work15:29
Lorthirkand i'll be at home in 5 hours15:30
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lardmanwhich app was using a Qt wrapped web runtime?15:32
jrochahey guys, can you confirm that you have python-gobject available to be installed in the N900?15:32
Stskeepsovi maps?15:32
lardmanStskeeps: no, a Garage project, but which is hosted externally15:33
jrochaI updated my firmware and after that it was no longer available on the reps15:33
lizardojrocha: yes I have :)15:33
lardmanI can't remember what it was, but it piqued my interest because of the web runtime15:33
lizardojrocha: which repos you have enabled?15:33
Shapeshifteryaay, just ordered my n900.15:33
StskeepsShapeshifter: welcome to your new state of mind - frothing insanity15:34
jrochaextras, extras-testin, estras-devel, apart from the original ones15:34
ShapeshifterStskeeps: xD I'm prepared to wait until january.15:34
ShapeshifterBut I expect it 15. of dec.15:34
julianoliverStskeeps: you say that now.. then comes the fever.15:34
lizardojrocha: me too... and what about "apt-cache policy python-gobject" ?15:34
Shapeshifterif I'm lucky 1. of dec.15:34
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Arkenoiactive xmpp client over wifi and sip registration == 12 hours standby for n900. oops. e90 lasted 2 days (though not *every* xmpp client could preserve battery, but nokia conversations could)15:35
lizardojrocha: BTW python-gobject is very core package , I think pygtk , python-hildon , all depend on it15:36
StskeepsArkenoi: report it?15:36
jrochalizardo, ok, let me check it15:37
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Arkenoinot sure where does this problem belong to. have anyone tried without xmpp, just sip?15:37
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jrochalizardo, 2.16.1 is the candidate, there's none installed15:40
lardmanah, Macuco15:40
lizardojrocha: yes, but are you nable to install it ?15:40
jrochalizardo, I know it is a core for those packages and I noticed it when I couldn't restore gPodder15:40
Shapeshifterkoffice is in the repos, right?15:41
lizardokhertan: BTW I couldn't reproduce the python-gdata installation issue, but I think the problem was because it is manually optified... I think its maintainer needs to de-optify it now that pymaemo-optify takes care of that automatically15:41
RST38hArkenoi: File it under15:41
RST38hArkenoi: Also there was someone from Collabora at this channel, you can complain directly to that guy15:42
jrochalizardo, yes I am, I just wanted to know how/why this failed15:42
jrochato be done automatically15:43
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lizardojrocha: hmmm, you mean through HAM ?15:43
jrochait could be a trouble for new users15:43
jrochayup, I tried restoring my apps and gPodder failed everytime I tried to restore or install it15:43
lizardojrocha: I remembered that HAM had some nasty bug that didn't resolve depencies properly for some python packages15:44
khertanlizardo: probably15:44
lizardojrocha: even though apt-get could do it :(15:44
lizardojrocha: are you able to reproduce it ?>15:44
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khertanlizardo: so you suggest to do not optify python libs ?15:44
PaulFertserBTW, what kernel does N900 use?15:44
lizardojrocha: if so, we can triage that HAM issue once and for all (it seems a small number of people is being affected)15:45
jrochalizardo, it installed through apt-get but from the app-mgr it wasn't installable15:45
lizardokhertan: yes, everything under /usr/lib/python2.5 is now automatically optified15:45
jrochalizardo, I need to work now but I'll mention that to my HAM colleagues :D15:45
linfl683Hi, when using python on the maemo... How do I determine my (external) ip adress?15:45
khertanlinfl683: like on other language15:45
khertanlizardo: ok thx ...15:46
jrochalizardo, so, I'll let the HAM team knows about it, thank you15:46
khertanlinfl683: a simple solution is to get the content of with a http request15:46
linfl683khertan: and how's that? ;P15:46
lizardojrocha: ok, I think andre__ was one of those which reported a similar issue to me before (involving python-xml)  but we didn't went further to investigate why apt-get resolved the dependencies but HAM not )15:46
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linfl683khertan: y, but i don't have internet acces15:47
linfl683khertan: only on LAN15:47
andre__lizardo, which exact package?15:47
khertanlinfl683: ? and you have an external ip ?15:47
khertanit s an internal one so ...15:47
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linfl683khertan: y i mean like not localhost, my regular ip15:47
andre__ah... "h-a-m states "missing python2.5-xml dependency" ( but apt-get works)"?15:47
lizardoandre__: I think it was some package you tried to install and it complained about python-xml (I might be wrong though, it was a long time ago)15:47
lizardoandre__: yes :)15:47
lizardoandre__: I think it is a similar issue of that jrocha had, just for another package15:48
andre__yes, that internal ticket is still open and unresolved. hmm, there's no public report for that. anybody willing to create it? :-)15:48
lizardoandre__: jrocha promised to do it later... riiight? :D15:49
andre__jrocha, lizardo: int-136204 for those having access to internal bugtracker15:49
andre__jrocha, so gpodder is also affected by this? which exact dependency?15:49
jrochaandre__, please submit the bug if you can, I cannot do it right now15:49
jrochaat least for me..15:50
lizardoandre__, jrocha : I have a feeling that it is something related to the Provides/Replaces/Conflicts fields15:50
jrochaand it happened after trying to restore the apps I had after upgrading the firmware15:50
linfl683khertan: thanks, y was thinking of doing something like that15:50
jrochalizardo, probably15:50
andre__workaround: use apt-get...15:51
khertanandre__: yep gpodder is also affected15:51
lizardoandre__: yes, but for most users it will be too hard :)15:51
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andre__sure, i know15:51
andre__problem is that I've pinged two times already and developers ignore it (old problem, I know) ;-)15:51
lizardojrocha: can you talk to the HAM team and push them more ? I can provide a simpler testcase if that is better (instead of a "flash device and try to restore gpodder" is to big to debug)15:52
lizardos/is to big/if that is too big/15:53
infobotlizardo meant: jrocha: can you talk to the HAM team and push them more ? I can provide a simpler testcase if that is better (instead of a "flash device and try to restore gpodder" if that is too big to debug)15:53
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Lorthirkjulianoliver: have you had success in reflashing?16:00
julianoliverLorthirk: yes, as per these instructions:
Lorthirkare you on linux?16:02
julianoliveryes, Debian.16:03
lizardois it just me or is terribly slow these days ? :(16:03
julianoliveri used the Debian package of the flasher rather than the tarball.16:03
Arkenoihow much standby time you guys could get n900 with at least one program that uses active wifi connection? i'd like to know what can i expect if there are no bugs that affect battery consumption16:03
julianoliverlizardo: yes, it's terrible.16:03
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lizardoand now I'm getting : Failed to fetch  404 Not Found16:03
lizardowith just a "apt-get update"16:04
Lorthirki'm under macosx... but istructions doesn't work -_-16:04
julianoliverlizardo: it's common. server admins weren't prepared for Maemo's new found fame, it seems.16:04
lizardohmm, although I see the problem now :)16:05
jjolizardo: you've got one extra maemo on your path16:05
lizardobut it is still slow :/16:05
julianoliverLorthirk: i'd search around in the forums for other OS X users.16:05
lizardojjo: yeah, my bad16:05
julianoliverlizardo: haha your problem is PEBKAC16:05
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aolhmmm I installed openssh client + server on my n900... It is connected to wlan and I can ping it... and netstat says ssh port is listening16:11
aolbut I cant connect to it16:11
aolssh works locally to the public ip16:11
aolbut not from my pc16:11
* VDVsx yawns16:11
aolanyone run in to same? I'd like to use the ssh for developing16:11
crashanddie_aol: it's not a public IP16:12
VDVsxaol, works for me16:12
VDVsxI used my network IP of course16:12
julianoliveraol: works here too.16:12
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julianoliveraol: try a 'netstat -tupa | grep sshd' on the device.16:12
Arkenoirst38h: is there a way to change charset in xterm? i'd like to have koi8-r there as well16:12
crashanddie_gents, I think he's talking about the 3g IP16:12
julianoliveraol: oopps, you said you'd tried this.16:13
julianolivercrashanddie_: ahh, that again.16:13
julianoliveraol: no, it's probably NAT'd to hell by your ISP.16:13
VDVsxI've the same issue with one of the carriers here16:13
aoljulianoliver: I'm on WLAN16:13
crashanddie_aol: 3G or wifi?16:13
VDVsxaol, pc and device on WLAN ?16:14
glass_aol: does the wlan have client seperation (or the same feat with some other name)16:14
*** crashanddie_ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - | Scratchbox + Xephyr is not an emulator, don't expect a terminal or browser. You can't SSH to your N900 over 3G!"16:14
*** crashanddie_ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - | Scratchbox + Xephyr is not an emulator, don't expect a terminal or browser | You can't SSH to your N900 over 3G!"16:14
julianolivercrashanddie_: hehe16:14
VDVsxcrashanddie, yes you can :p16:14
VDVsxthat's depends on your carrier16:15
crashanddie_VDVsx: some people might, but for 99% of people the answer will be "NO"16:15
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VDVsxcrashanddie, true :p16:15
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julianoliveraol: so you have the N900 and another computer on a LAN. can you ping the client?16:15
aolmy laptop was connected both to ethernet and WLAN, so...16:15
aolnow it works when I disconnected the ethernet, thanks for tips16:16
crashanddie_aol: do you mean "wifi" or "3g"?16:16
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aolWLAN == wifi16:16
crashanddie_aol: you'd be amazed at the confusion there is regarding the terms, hence the clarification I requested16:16
aolit works now, I'm happy!16:16
julianoliveraol: sounds like your router partitions clients between ethernet and wireless connections.16:17
aoljulianoliver: yep, it's the company network, so does not suprise me. I forgot that I plugged in the ethernet16:17
julianoliveraol: client separation at the router is a common security measure.16:17
javispedroaw, the topic is getting long16:17
crashanddie_aol: if the wireless has a different network address than the ethernet one, you can add a route so that it goes through your wireless card16:18
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Arkenoihow do i get nokia messaging for n900? nokia says i should register my phone and wait for sms with link, but seems that it cannot send me sms16:21
vesajavispedro: got it to work (well not me, but a colleague). thanks for the help =)16:21
javispedronp :)16:22
vesajavispedro: you wouldn't know of any resource listing the speed of different operations in shaders on the n900?16:22
vesaatleast multitexturing seems to be a bit on the slow side16:22
javispedronope, even though it's a standard sgx 35016:23
vesa530 =)16:24
julianolivervesa: i'd like such a list also16:25
vesayep. it's all good and well doing stuff that'll look cool but if it's at 5 fps then there's not much point16:25
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lardman|homejeremiah: you about?16:26
lardman|homejeremiah: I have a packaging question for you.... :)16:26
ensianyone know if it's possible to run valgrind on N900 ?16:26
mikhas_ensi, use the maemo debug scripts?16:26
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mikhas_oh, n90016:27
javispedrovalgrind for arm wasn't done yet.16:27
ensiah its not available for this architecture16:27
mikhas_I was thinking sbox, for whatever reason16:27
ensiso anyone got ideas how to "profile" an application on the device? I'm interested getting some wall times, how long it takes to open some certain windows etc.16:27
javispedrooprofile is available16:28
javispedroand gprof should work16:28
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* andre__ realizes that he should split up just another product in Bugzilla into more subcomponents. darn :-/16:31
fralssounds like fun16:31
andre__well, at least not a big one16:31
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tbfandre__: now having SQL access would be fun16:33
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andre__tbf, I'm always afraid of triggering side effects :)16:34
jeremiahlardman|home: Hello!16:35
lardman|homezbar requires python to build some wrappers, but it's also pulled in as a runtime dep16:35
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lardman|homehow can I stop it being a runtime dep, as many people won't want to use it with python16:36
jeremiahYou can specify it as build time with Build-Indep16:36
jeremiahI'll see if I can show you the relevant debian doc. . .16:36
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lardman|hometo other people, those who know about DBus and libosso specifically, how can I send a "broadcast" message to say "A barcode is ready for you to handle in your apps"?16:38
lardman|homelooks like osso_rpc_run() is aimed at a single specific application with known params16:38
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lardman|homethanks jeremiah :)16:41
jeremiahThat link is a bit opaque - as free software documentation can be. :/16:41
jeremiahBut it ought to provide a way for you to specify that you want python at build time and not runtime16:42
lardman|homejeremiah: I'll doubtless bug you later then ;)16:42
jeremiah(If that is in fact what you want.)16:42
jeremiahlardman|home: Feel free. :)16:42
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lardman|homecome on all you libosso/DBus fiends, heads above the parapet16:44
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ideamonkI've been trying to setup maemo 5.0 sdk on Ubuntu 9.10, and am stuck, everything installed properly, but there's some glitch running xephyr to load the gui. Xephyr log -    scratchbox log -
ideamonkI followed these instructions - are there some changes in steps while installing maemo 5 on Ubuntu ?16:48
javispedroI must admit I am attracted to the Emblaze Else16:48
adeusthe first one relates to the X auth16:48
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javispedrosince they seem not to be total idiots when it comes to efficiency of use.16:49
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lardman|homelooks quite cool16:50
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julianoliverideamonk: this worked for me just fine on Debian Lenny:
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aolhmmm only 65mb left in /16:54
aolno more than that for extra apps?16:54
julianoliverideamonk: perhaps check that config/dbus for the security policies mentioned?16:54
zaheermthp, you thought of splitting out your download manager code and have a dbus activatable download manager so other apps can use it?16:55
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ideamonkjulianoliver, I went through the same, I'm looking into config...16:55
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adeusideamonk, for the first error, find /etc/dbus-1/system.d/xorg-server.conf16:57
adeusin there, add <allow own="org.x.config.display2"/>16:57
lardman|homehmm, is a signal simply a method that doesn't have a return type?16:57
ideamonkadeus, oh that file is missing, im making one right away16:58
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adeusit should be there16:58
adeusin the hsot16:58
ideamonkadeus, oh on the host !16:58
adeusthere are similar lines like that there16:59
adeusadd after them16:59
ideamonkadeus, yes16:59
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khertan<advert> require test for QA validation ... Thanks for your help.</advert>17:00
adeusyou'll probably need to restart X to put that into effect17:00
ideamonkadeus, will I have to restart X... yeah got it :)17:01
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Proteousthe great gooble roast 09 is on17:11
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zaheermKhertan, if you test zoutube and vote i'll test pygtkeditor and vote ;)17:14
crashanddie_Khertan: installing!17:14
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zaheermsomething deleted my application catalogues from app manager!17:16
zaheermall of them17:16
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Khertanzaheerm: it s not deleted ...17:16
mgedminzaheem: happened to me when / was full17:16
mgedminthey weren't really deleted17:16
mgedminapp manager just couldn't load them or something like that17:16
Khertanbut i got the problem two time17:16
Khertanjust restart17:16
zaheermaah yes17:17
ideamonkadeus, that didn't work :( qemu still ends with a segmentation fault...17:17
Khertanwhen / is full17:17
zaheermthe file still has them in17:17
zaheermi have 25MB free17:17
Khertanzaheerm: zoutube isn't optified yet ?17:17
mgedminhmm strange17:17
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ideamonkadeus, is it common to come across problems with qemu and armel(target)17:17
zaheermKhertan, it is only in /opt !17:17
zaheermKhertan, what tells you it isn't in /opt ?17:17
Khertanlost 8Mb on /17:18
Khertanafter instal17:18
Khertanmaybe some depandency17:18
zaheermthat would be one of the deps17:18
zaheermprobably python related17:18
Khertani don't think, as i use pymaemo-optify :)17:18
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zaheermKhertan, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg is optified the only other one that is a dep is gstreamer0.10-plugins-flv which takes up a few KB17:20
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zaheermit does run some tracker stuff to register video/x-flv as a video17:20
Khertanhum ... maybe something else17:21
Khertanas it comes back and your file are optified17:21
zaheermcould be the apt cache!17:21
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zaheermit keeps packages downloaded17:22
zaheermonly deletes them after a certain time17:22
Khertanzaheerm: ok ... works well17:22
* Khertan like the simple ui17:22
Khertansound doesn't work the first time ... just level down and up make it work ... (but maybe comming from the video)17:23
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zaheermthat is probably a bug lower down in the stack...17:24
zaheermto search, just type btw17:24
zaheermon the front screen17:24
Khertanif only i can vote17:24
zaheerminstalling pygtkeditor now17:24
Khertanslow maemo.org17:25
zaheermyah i empathise17:25
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SpeedEvilWoo!   Shipped Item/s: Qty/Description: 1    / Nokia N900                               (SKU#  10208380)   Qty/Description: 1    / Nokia Battery BL-5J                      (SKU#  3956679)17:26
Stskeepswhen did you order?17:26
SpeedEvil20 oct17:26
Stskeepsand from where?17:26
Khertanit take me 3 hours to try to promote my package17:26
zaheermSpeedEvil, they were out of stock when i ordered17:26
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timeless_mbpjaem: ok, i'm pretty sure it was my fault, assuming semantics of cp which cp didn't have :(17:27
zaheermKhertan, the icon that is a set of cogs doesn't do anything17:27
timeless_mbpanyway, fixed in current local package :)17:27
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ideamonkadeus,  Known Issues says - "    * Armel target does not bring up the UI framework ", is it the reason behind ?17:27
Khertancogs ?17:27
zaheermKhertan, looks like settings17:27
Khertanthe last one on the right ?17:28
Khertanah ;) ... it s the execute command17:28
Khertandid you have an existing script to execute ?17:28
zaheermi didn't know it was execute17:28
zaheermwill it execute python code?17:28
Khertanby launching an xterm17:29
Khertanso you can see error :)17:29
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Khertanrequire that you save the script before ... maybe i should put a warning ... message or something like taht17:30
javispedrotoday's dealbreaker: Bounce Evolution's framerate!17:30
Khertanjavispedro:  ?17:30
timeless_mbpjavispedro: oh brother17:30
lbtjavispedro: let me guess .... tmo?17:30
timeless_mbp"good enough"17:30
javispedrotmo, yes.17:30
* timeless_mbp doesn't go there17:30
lbtheh ....17:30
timeless_mbpyou shouldn't either!17:30
* javispedro is starting to become sick of this daily games.17:30
zaheermKhertan, I like the editor, nice..voting17:31
Khertanzaheerm: the direct link :
Khertanit ll be faster than trying to browse package17:32
Khertanzoutube page is still loading :)17:32
javispedrowhat will tomorrow's dealbreaker be, ladies and gentlemen? Place your bets already, because THIS ... IS ... TMO!17:32
crashanddie_I thought christaexport had been banned from tmo?17:33
Khertanjavispedro: look my answer17:33
javispedroKhertan: hehe17:33
crashanddie_Khertan: link?17:33
Stskeepscrashanddie_: isn't that God you're thinking of? :P17:34
VReHmm.. I managed to fill up / just by installing stuff from extras, any handy oneliner to find out the guilty apps?17:34
Firebird:o, so much misinformation on TMO now...17:34
StskeepsVRe: if you used anything beyond extras such as extras-devel or extras-testing, it's your fault :P but there's some tools, yeah17:35
Khertanmaybe i should do a real app with an interface to found guilty apps17:35
Khertanor does there is already one ?17:35
VReI have used on desktop but can not remember names tho17:36
crashanddie_Stskeeps: I wish God would ban christaexport from life17:36
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VReKhertan: Yeah, I would love one.. now I have to figure out how to move that to the device - thats why I was hoping oneliner :)17:37
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KhertanVRe: use ssh :)17:37
VReKhertan: can't install it, root full..17:38
VRe"I see a lot of keypresses"17:38
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KhertanVRe: oh ... ssh is THE first thing to install :)17:39
VReI was going in order from top17:39
KhertanVRe: did you have installed rootsh ?17:39
VReof course17:39
Khertanopen xterm17:40
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Khertansudo gainroot17:40
Stskeepswazd: doesn't work still?17:40
wazdGuys, need a little help :)17:40
KhertanVRe: apt-get purge17:41
wazdI forgot how tto blug in power buttons'n'stuff :D17:41
Khertanand look if it makes some place17:41
KhertanVRe: df -h17:41
Stskeepswazd: the manual should show the pins you have to put them on17:41
wazdStskeeps: I don't have one :(17:41
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Stskeepsor n80017:42
Stskeepswazd: could you grab me the name of the board again?17:42
wazdStskeeps: can you check it on the site and give me direct link to the pic?17:42
wazdAh, sure17:42
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Stskeepsright, hang on17:43
Stskeepsand you owe me a finished theme if this works ;)17:43
wazdStskeeps: :D17:43
VReKhertan: I have done those already.. thats why I need to find the guilty - and flush the ubifs17:44
wazd5130 is ohmygodsoloud17:44
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felbutss:( sso depressed. just got my new car charger and screen protector in from ebay17:44
wazdChecked n900 a bit more today17:44
KhertanVRe: mplayer installed ?17:45
felbutssand i tryed a different batter again :(17:45
wazdThhey had it with uncalibrated screen17:45
felbutsslucky guys u r17:45
wazdNoobs :)17:45
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wazdLike the material of the back and keyboard17:46
Khertanzaheerm: ouch ... is still validating my vote ... 30 min :)17:46
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VReKhertan: no mplayer17:47
* brbrbr warmly greet anyone17:47
wazd15 devices sold on meet-up, 80 devices sold yesterday17:47
Stskeepswazd: 125kb too big?17:47
Stskeepsvery detailed17:48
wazdStskeeps: whatever,  hit me)17:48
vesajavispedro: know about texture compression, ie. what types are supported on the n900?17:48
vesai'm assuming the same pvrtc works as on the iphone seeing as they run the same chip17:49
fuz_hi skskeep, i'm the guy with bootmenu problem :)17:49
VReIs bounce non-optified? I think there was such a talk before..17:49
zaheermKhertan, mine has been going for a while too17:49
Khertanzaheerm: lol ... I ve voted two time on for zoutube ... there is clearly a bug :)17:49
Stskeepsfuz_: heya , could you answer the qs in my post?17:49
wazdStskeeps: thanks17:49
xorAxAxwhat does it mean to optify?17:49
javispedrovesa: pvr is supported for sure. as for the rest, GL_COMPRESSED_TEXTURE_FORMATS.17:50
vesais there a tool in the sdk for conversion?17:50
javispedronope, get the imagination sdk17:50
fuz_yes it shutdowns event when i select internal flash17:51
Stskeepsfuz_: you press the enter button?17:52
dmj726timeless_mbp: where is the gecko source for maemo kept?17:52
timeless_mbpdmj: meaning?17:52
Stskeepsfuz_: interesting17:52
Stskeepsfuz_: how long time do you wait until this happens?17:52
dmj726I would like to take a look at the source for the zoom gesture.17:53
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timeless_mbp  has the sources for microb17:53
fuz_sts: i can come back here in 2 hours with the device if you want17:53
dmj726thanks I was having a hard time finding it.17:53
fuz_so i can give more precise answers17:53
Stskeepsfuz_: the irritating part about debugging this is that it's best done with a serial console :)17:53
timeless_mbpok, i'm wrong17:53
timeless_mbpgestures are in one of the browser closed bits17:54
timeless_mbpbut the original gesture impl that you could consider as a reference impl is a firefox addon17:54
SpeedEvilIs there an easy installable package with the source of 'everything' buildable on the device?17:54
timeless_mbpif that's what actually interests you17:54
StskeepsSpeedEvil: if you write nokia a source request17:54
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: you want to rsync
Stskeepsprobably not easy, but right17:54
fuz_if it means running all commands step by step in a console, i can probably do it17:54
dmj726I'm looking for the swirly gesture17:54
Stskeepsfuz_: could you do me a favour and reinstall bootmenu from the url to make sure it's the absolute right one? running install bootmenu17:54
Stskeepsjust so we have that scenario out of the way17:55
timeless_mbpdmj726: yeah, the reference impl is a js based ff addon17:55
SpeedEvilStskeeps: 'everything' = everything minus closed-source17:55
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: formally you can write a letter to nokia asking for it17:55
fuz_sks: not just now, but later ok17:55
timeless_mbpor i could probably arrange an rsync17:55
Stskeepsfuz_: right17:55
wazdErm, positive is white or color?)17:55
penguinbaitI would love to test bootmenu on the n900 for you17:55
timeless_mbpi just grabbed the sources from the repo17:55
timeless_mbpapt-get is your friend17:56
Stskeepspenguinbait: got one yet? :P17:56
penguinbaitjust send me your n90017:56
fuz_i'll get back in about 2 hours. thanks :)17:56
penguinbaithappy thanksgiving all17:56
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timeless_mbpandre__: they have zero bugs :) -- talking about a slow pong :)17:56
Stskeepswazd: power button is "just" a shortcut anyway..17:56
Stskeepswazd: see which one works :P17:57
andre__timeless_mbp, who?17:57
wazdOh yeah17:58
RST38hheya wazd17:59
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wazdLooks like it works)17:59
wazdRST38h: heya)18:00
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wazdNO WAY18:01
* timeless_mbp looks for qwerty18:02
Stskeepswazd: ?18:02
wazdIt stopped working again18:02
Stskeepsturned off?18:02
Stskeepsdid you connect the fans and all that jazz?18:03
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wazdNo, it worked normally, then I've rebooted and here we go again18:03
Stskeepsno signal?18:04
Stskeepswas HD connected?18:04