IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-11-25

Stskeeps	so i'm going to assume it didn't come with warranty? :P	00:00
felbutss	wasnt mentioned? it said i won a brand new n900 if it didnt then thats dodgy	00:01
Stskeeps	ah	00:01
felbutss	on nokia behalf	00:01
Stskeeps	can you explain more about the circumstances? :)	00:01
felbutss	wht part	00:01
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Stskeeps	as in, how did you win it/what competition/etc :P	00:01
lcuk	which event, competition etc?	00:01
SpeedEvil	Single combat?	00:02
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SpeedEvil	Though that's frowned on as a means of aquisition in some cases.	00:02
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javispedro	it is? :(	00:02
* VDVsx runs and hides from the mega trolling attack at tmo :)		00:03
Stskeeps	felbutss: basically you might have some degree of luck contacting nokia care.. if your device went that hosed in a NSU flash/died in the midst, it might be of interest to developers	00:03
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Stskeeps	felbutss: NSU doesn't react to it now?	00:03
felbutss	on blogs.nokia.com/nseries i won the nokia cityman contest. it was like a little OVI promotion thing nokia were doing. they just contact me through email and im in australia by the way	00:03
lcuk	ahhhh holding your n900 upside down invalidates even the strongest of warranties	00:04
javispedro	VDVsx: why? we're safely hidden here. just grab some popcorn and enjoy the show :)	00:04
felbutss	hhhmmm	00:04
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: The same can be said for taking it to the north	00:04
lcuk	lol	00:04
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lcuk	i need to get my head into liqbase	00:05
VDVsx	javispedro, :)	00:05
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* lardman decides to boot windows to rip cd, sad he knows		00:05
lardman	bbl	00:05
javispedro	and hpe the trolls don't invade this place, or else we have to retreat to #maemo-bunker	00:05
VDVsx	lcuk, are you porting liqbase to the Iphone ?	00:06
lcuk	cya simon	00:06
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lcuk	VDVsx, nahhh i might port iphone as an app inside liqbase one day tho	00:06
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: Nah, he's bringing iPhone to liqbase	00:06
qwerty12_N900	Heh	00:06
qwerty12_N900	+the	00:06
lcuk	afterall, its just a posh browser	00:06
VDVsx	lcuk, buhhhhhh	00:06
melmoth	bah	00:06
melmoth	oups	00:06
VDVsx	that's a deal breaker	00:06
Arkenoi	pdf reader is surprisingly smooth on n900. it was quite a nightmare on n770	00:06
lcuk	snot really VDVsx	00:06
Stskeeps	felbutss: right. for good measure, try to mail back to them. Explain that you wanted to reflash using NSU, and it failed mid-way. Tell them that you downloaded a firmware image manually, got advice by maemo.org community to try out flashing using flasher-3.5, and even tried to enable R&D mode, all of which failed. If they could advise you a way to get your N900 back in shape - maybe the problem would be of interest to them.	00:06
lcuk	iphone on n810 sounds appealing	00:07
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qwerty12_N900	Arkenoi: Wasn't everything a nightmare on the 770? :)	00:07
VDVsx	lcuk, with sooth scrolling ;)	00:07
felbutss	im was writing somthing up now lol	00:07
felbutss	thanks ill add to that	00:07
lcuk	felbutss, listen to Stskeeps, he is out dist-master.	00:07
lcuk	our	00:07
felbutss	lol i can tell he is amazing	00:07
Stskeeps	felbutss: i'd be at a loss if i was in your situation too. i would be able to dig out a little more info but that's that :P	00:08
lcuk	heh shush you just made his head grow a bit more	00:08
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Stskeeps	felbutss: also mention you have tried to charge it etc :P	00:08
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lcuk	has anyone tested whether n900 is blendproof yet?	00:09
lcuk	or waterproof?	00:09
lcuk	or any of the things people try	00:09
SpeedEvil	lcuk: I have submitted it to the BlendTek people as a suggestion.	00:09
qwerty12_N900	ladies first, nudges lcuk	00:09
lcuk	:D hahaha SpeedEvil great!	00:09
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lcuk	brb moving boxen	00:10
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felbutss	wait a minute. i was able to turn it on a few minutes ago for a few seconds. now it wont turn on at all if i press the power button. so maybe the phone didnt charge at all last night with the wall charger. it was charging with the flashing yellow light in my car last night	00:13
felbutss	will it not enter flashing mode by holding U with a low battery	00:13
felbutss	?	00:13
Stskeeps	felbutss: i personally don	00:14
Stskeeps	't use 'u' for flashing.. :P	00:14
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felbutss	lol	00:14
felbutss	ooo	00:14
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Stskeeps	felbutss: ok, now try to plug it in, hold down power button after plugging it in	00:14
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felbutss	nothing. brb guys im off to the nokia care centre. ill let u guys know later how i go. the device isnt even in australia yet. they problem have not seem one before	00:16
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felbutss	probley*	00:16
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Stskeeps	felbutss: good luck - they may have flashing stations for it	00:17
Stskeeps	felbutss: keep us updated OK?	00:17
felbutss	hope so. i hope they have the image	00:17
felbutss	i will	00:17
felbutss	brbrb cyas	00:17
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GAN900	Arkenoi, it's not IRDA	00:18
* javispedro notes that some tmo trolls write similarly styled posts		00:18
Arkenoi	GAN900: what is it then?	00:19
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GAN900	CiR	00:19
Arkenoi	gan900: wow. is it powerful enough?	00:19
GAN900	Same type of thing that's on your remote control.	00:19
kynky	the kind you find on a tv remote control	00:20
Arkenoi	i know what cir is and wonder why it is so rare in gadgets ;-)	00:20
GAN900	I don't have a room big enough to test the range.	00:20
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kynky	more useful imho, especially considering wifi and bt for data	00:20
* GAN900 shrugs		00:20
javispedro	I wanted IrDA :(	00:20
Stskeeps	javispedro: i vote for masked IP addresses on tmo	00:20
GAN900	Probably because Palm made IRDA so popular.	00:20
GAN900	Bluetooth.	00:21
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Stskeeps	javispedro: either that, or the ability to punch people in the face over IP.	00:21
Stskeeps	:P	00:21
javispedro	the worst part is that sometime it is trolls who bring in some sanity...	00:22
kynky	irda is slow for data i thought. compared to wireless g	00:22
SpeedEvil	kynky: yes - generally very slow	00:22
javispedro	irda is slow, obsolete and useless. but I still want, I'm a geek dammit.	00:22
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kynky	javispedro, so its just the geek factor :)	00:23
SpeedEvil	IRDA is however _easy_	00:23
javispedro	exactly.	00:23
SpeedEvil	in that all you need is a UART	00:23
kynky	and direct line of sight ?	00:23
SpeedEvil	that too.	00:23
GAN900	and time	00:24
GAN900	Lots of time for anything not utterly trivial. ;)	00:24
kynky	and compatability	00:24
crashanddie_	line it up, just a bit more, a, i got something, shit, it failed	00:24
SpeedEvil	And it also fails if you're at >0.3C with regards to the reciever, due to doppler.	00:24
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SpeedEvil	oops.	00:24
kynky	cir has wider angle i thought	00:24
* SpeedEvil holds up a pen, which flashes.		00:24
* GAN900 bemoans Florida drivers		00:25
javispedro	thanks for the information, I will make sure to test IrDA while on a spaceship	00:25
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crashanddie_	javispedro, thought exactly the same ;)	00:25
crashanddie_	javispedro, though that would be lowercase c	00:25
* crashanddie_ is bored		00:26
crashanddie_	no shows to watch, nothing to do	00:26
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hotaru2k3	bt and wifi have the same problem with doppler, tho	00:26
javispedro	OH SHIT	00:26
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javispedro	too late for a show.	00:26
javispedro	too bad.	00:26
GAN900	crashanddie_, go counter-troll Talk.	00:26
kynky	well n900 should be more powerful than computers used for original spaceshuttle program, so all you need now is some rocket fuel and some metal and a launchpad	00:26
GAN900	and don't hate on zerojay	00:26
crashanddie_	GAN900, I said I was bored, not wanting to change my habits	00:26
crashanddie_	GAN900, I didn't hate on him	00:26
lcuk	im gonna do something i havent done in a long time.	00:27
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crashanddie_	lcuk, wank?	00:27
lcuk	nahh im doin that now, shurrup	00:27
Stskeeps	yes, we need to employ some of the former trolls to counter the incoming ones :P	00:27
qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps: I like this strategy. You first?	00:27
lcuk	i meant try fbreader	00:27
crashanddie_	lcuk, stop wanking then?	00:27
crashanddie_	oh	00:27
lcuk	and go through some new books	00:27
* GAN900 needs to find more books.		00:27
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lcuk	and if im unhappy i might take the backend of fbreader	00:27
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N900: i was thinking PB could be put to use	00:27
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javispedro	so, microb has now an ugly and unthemed "addons" window?	00:27
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: You're gonna toss on books?	00:27
lcuk	and do stuff to it	00:28
Stskeeps	javispedro: yes	00:28
qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps: heh	00:28
GAN900	I keep finishing them and running out.	00:28
greenfly	javispedro: "now" ?	00:28
crashanddie_	GAN900, that sounds bad, in the wanking context	00:28
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: Is your library sticky?	00:28
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N900: for facilitating them, of course	00:28
lcuk	qwerty12_N900, yes	00:28
javispedro	greenfly: Well on Diablo the extensions window was themed...	00:28
greenfly	javispedro: ahh	00:28
lcuk	it is the only reason why people want portrait phones	00:28
crashanddie_	wanking with the other hand while browsing porn?	00:28
javispedro	you perverts, why I assume that is 90% of the n900 usecases	00:29
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: Yeah, lol, there was a guy on Talk asking for portrait mode support in the video player	00:29
lcuk	nahhh javispedro its not	00:29
qwerty12_N900	I had to reply	00:29
crashanddie_	qwerty12_N900, LMAO	00:29
GAN900	. . .	00:29
lcuk	the iphone users want it	00:29
Juzna	hmm	00:29
lcuk	they are used to one handed use	00:29
crashanddie_	yeah but they're wankers anyway	00:29
crashanddie_	not literally though	00:29
lcuk	lololol	00:29
greenfly	heh	00:29
lcuk	qwerty12_N900, me n tracy were making a video the other day	00:30
Juzna	is there a way to create shortcuts for ssh hosts?	00:30
Stskeeps	the question is rather if n900 qualifies as a proper pink page viewer	00:30
Juzna	or there is but is there some guide	00:30
javispedro	At last, a troll who looks the part, at last, a gadget which looks good naked.	00:30
lcuk	and fell about laughing at the capabilities of the device	00:30
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qwerty12_N900	lcuk: lol	00:30
lcuk	Stskeeps, testing is a hard job	00:30
crashanddie_	"hard" indeed	00:31
kynky	lcuk, especially for pimps	00:31
julianoliver	hi, i am getting continuous 401: Unauthorized IP errors while running the 'maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh' script. it appears to be the same problem as others are expressing here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5622	00:31
povbot	Bug 5622: extras-devel: apt-get install complains about unauthorized IP	00:31
GAN900	Barcelona is getting closer and I still don't know what's what.	00:31
crashanddie_	julianoliver, more people have reported it	00:31
crashanddie_	GAN900, it's a city in spain	00:31
lcuk	GAN900, just come over and talk with us, will be good to meet you finally	00:31
javispedro	GAN900: ah, me neither. I don't even know what to do on friday...	00:31
crashanddie_	GAN900, though technically, it's not moving, so not really "getting closer"	00:31
GAN900	lcuk, travel arrangements.	00:32
julianoliver	crashanddie_: is there a workaround? the IP listed is not my own, probably an ISP proxy.	00:32
crashanddie_	julianoliver, not that I'm aware of	00:32
GAN900	Need a hotel for Sunday night.	00:32
lcuk	im gonna be givin a run through of liqbase and explain what its capable of so we can see some upgrades and ideas spin off based on the calendar	00:32
lcuk	oh cripes GAN900	00:32
GAN900	Also need to see where everything in the city is located.	00:32
crashanddie_	"A man in Taiwan was robbed of more than $2 million in cash that he had just withdrawn from the bank, a police official said on Tuesday."	00:32
lcuk	confirm in blood before you fly	00:32
javispedro	ah well, you have ovi maps don't you? >:)	00:33
hotaru2k3	crashanddie_: technically, it is moving	00:33
lcuk	crashanddie_, you still got any left?	00:33
crashanddie_	He just withdrew $2M?	00:33
GAN900	crashanddie_, he so deserves it.	00:33
julianoliver	GAN900: have to act early - sort out accommodation in BCN now.	00:33
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lcuk	NOW	00:33
javispedro	OR ELSE.	00:33
lcuk	you sleep on javispedro's couch	00:33
crashanddie_	As in what, "Hi there, I'd like to make a withdrawal" "Ah, Mr Chenoi, your weekly $2M?" "Yes indeed Julia"	00:33
GAN900	I sleep in the airport. ;)	00:33
julianoliver	GAN900: if desperate can look into the 'pensions'. sometimes dodgy but generally cheap if hotels are booked out.	00:34
greenfly	anyone know of a way to send libevent-style notifications via the command line? the standard Linux apps for it don't seem to be ported yet	00:34
javispedro	hotels booked out?	00:34
greenfly	maybe dbus?	00:34
lcuk	how do i bag a room at barca im covered	00:34
lcuk	quim posted something about 16 rooms	00:34
javispedro	yeah, in NH Cornellà which is at a few meters	00:35
lcuk	do we need to do anything special or just turn up and play musical beds	00:35
julianoliver	well it's a popular city for conferences and so on occassion you can find yourself either looking for accom at the lowest of the low end or the highest of the high end.	00:35
GAN900	Christ, this is the 6th accident that's stopped traffic dead in the past 20 miles.	00:35
crashanddie_	"A study from two Swiss human rights organizations, Trial and Pro Juventute, has found that some video games depict war and battle actions that in real life would violate international human rights laws." <-- THAT'S WHY IT'S A GAME	00:35
GAN900	20 mph average here.	00:35
crashanddie_	GAN900, stop using your N900 while driving, you'll cause less accidents	00:35
greenfly	crashanddie_: heh, I wonder if they are going to outlaw team killing	00:35
GAN900	crashanddie_, not driving.	00:35
IcanCU	fring ads skype videochat for s60 .. nice	00:36
GAN900	crashanddie_, WHAT?	00:36
javispedro	so I guess the hour of the "it sucks" threads has finally arrived.	00:36
GAN900	Yeah, they let you nuke games in MW2.	00:36
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* javispedro hopes everything to die early and nokia to go back to tablets ;)		00:36
* GAN900 got nuked the other night. :(		00:36
lcuk	http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IZGIA8?ie=UTF8&tag=random-good-stuff-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000IZGIA8	00:36
crashanddie_	greenfly, "You are charged with the murder of bl0kbust3r during an Elite Co-op mission of Modern Warfare 2, what do you plead?"	00:37
lcuk	GAN900, did oyu get one of these?	00:37
lcuk	crashanddie_, read that link	00:37
lcuk	and mostly the customer reviews	00:37
krfkeith	where do I get the python package?	00:37
Stskeeps	javispedro: the key is to say "if you want to throw out your window, let us know where you live so we can grab a free N900"..	00:37
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Stskeeps	:P	00:37
crashanddie_	lcuk, old	00:37
crashanddie_	lcuk, saw that on slashdot, plus a quote of the comment some time ago	00:37
lcuk	so	00:37
lcuk	:D	00:37
lcuk	its worth laughin again	00:38
crashanddie_	there's one on TDW that made me laugh hard earlier today, lemme find it	00:38
javispedro	Stskeeps: "but remember to add receipt, invoice,... whatever is needed for warranty stuff".	00:38
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crashanddie_	lcuk, http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200907/errord/wtf_domain_queen.jpg	00:39
javispedro	haha	00:39
lcuk	:D	00:39
lcuk	cool	00:39
* javispedro is big fan of tdwtf		00:39
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lcuk	i havent ready dailywtf in ages	00:39
julianoliver	hmm.. N900/Maemo get's a pretty incredible review on the German Engadget: http://www.gizmodo.de/2009/11/23/test-nokia-n900-darauf-hat-die-welt-gewartet.html	00:39
jaem	me neither	00:39
crashanddie_	I mean, I understand you want your website to be user friendly	00:39
crashanddie_	but seriously, catering for every single person on the planet?	00:39
julianoliver	s/Engadget/Gizmodo	00:40
crashanddie_	gets	00:40
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javispedro	crashanddie_: what if for whatever reason I'm a King?	00:40
lcuk	hey timeless	00:40
crashanddie_	javispedro, then it means you're useless	00:40
javispedro	even better	00:40
javispedro	more reason to register useless domains	00:40
crashanddie_	javispedro, name a kind alive today who has any power? There aren't any, so you're not even legally allowed to write your name down	00:40
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Arkenoi	is there an office application for maemo?	00:41
crashanddie_	Arkenoi, At the moment there are document readers	00:41
crashanddie_	Arkenoi, however no full blown office app as of yet, not compatible with MS Office, if that's your question	00:41
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GAN900	This is worse than California traffic.	00:42
kynky	Arkenoi, there is google apps, if a webapp for editing word files is ok for you	00:42
crashanddie_	GAN900, california traffic is OK	00:42
Arkenoi	no editors? does google documents work ok with browser?	00:42
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Arkenoi	well, not quite ok but better than nothing	00:42
hotaru2k3	there's	00:42
GAN900	crashanddie_, not to a Florida driver.	00:42
lcuk	whos driving you	00:42
GAN900	Traffic delays are a very rare thing for me.	00:42
lcuk	or on bus?	00:42
crashanddie_	lcuk, the bus	00:42
crashanddie_	GAN900, do you have a driving license?	00:43
qwerty12_N900	GAN900: Out of all the things wrong with Florida, you choose to complain about the traffic?	00:43
GAN900	My roommate.	00:43
GAN900	crashanddie_, since I was 16	00:43
crashanddie_	GAN900, no car?	00:43
GAN900	Oh	00:43
GAN900	Uh	00:43
kynky	the women in florida dont wear enough clothing :)	00:43
GAN900	5 hour drive	00:43
GAN900	my car	00:44
crashanddie_	qwerty12_N900, you live in east london, you're not allowed to complain about other parts of the world	00:44
crashanddie_	qwerty12_N900, not until you've chosen to live somewhere	00:44
GAN900	My roommate and I split the driving time.	00:44
crashanddie_	kynky, your nickname sounds strangely weird with that statement	00:44
lcuk	i hope to godyou didnt high 5 as you started your roadtrip	00:44
kynky	crashanddie_, lol	00:44
Arkenoi	is there a torch application that uses camera flash?	00:45
crashanddie_	lcuk, no, he used a cheesy line, put on his glasses and walked off-camera	00:45
crashanddie_	YEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH	00:45
GAN900	Arkenoi, no, but dbus should be easy enough.	00:45
lcuk	Arkenoi, :'( not yet tho one has been seen. liqtorch will include it in v2	00:45
crashanddie_	I would love to hear a frenchman ask "I can not find the location of dbus"	00:45
lcuk	"dbus" is common language up north	00:46
julianoliver	ok, that won a smile.	00:46
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lcuk	"im goin catchin dbus"	00:46
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crashanddie_	lcuk, that's just because "the" isn't part of the dictionary in those parts of the world	00:46
lcuk	:D	00:46
GAN900	Hrm, if you used a desktop widget to switch the flash on and off with a switch, could you catch the dbus signal to Camera and keep it from launching?	00:47
lbt	no - dbus is broadcast in that sense	00:47
julianoliver	interestingly it's <http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/free Sources> that fails with the "401 Unauthorized [IP: ..]"	00:48
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javispedro	but it is really a signal? the camera app is down by then	00:48
lcuk	javispedro, e means because you need to open the cover to see the flash	00:48
lcuk	and that starts the camera app	00:49
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lcuk	the camera app should simply have a flashbulb button	00:49
lcuk	to turn it on	00:49
lcuk	sometimes when im trying to do macro photos at night i would like the light on	00:49
lcuk	instead of hjust a brief pulse as i half press button	00:50
qwerty12_N900	To help locate your tiny knob?	00:50
julianoliver	does anyone else have other than "hosts: files dns" in /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf ?	00:50
lcuk	that way torch app is intrinsic to camera	00:50
lcuk	yes qwerty	00:50
julianoliver	.. i mean to ask "files dns" for the "hosts" line in /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf	00:51
lcuk	GAN900, that ^ will work for the camera	00:51
lcuk	nice and simple and gives a way to do always on flash/torch utility	00:51
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crashanddie_	I'm going to start a new website	00:51
crashanddie_	registering the domain now	00:51
lcuk	whilst not breaking camera app or needing to curse or block	00:51
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javispedro	maemohaters.com ?	00:51
crashanddie_	sitonmyfacebook	00:51
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toggles_w	crashanddie_: lol too late..	00:52
timeless_mbp	hi lcuk	00:52
crashanddie_	shit	00:52
crashanddie_	indeed	00:52
crashanddie_	sitonmyfacebook.com Estimated Worth $489.1 USD	00:52
julianoliver	"myface.com", like facebook, but just you.	00:52
crashanddie_	qwerty12_N900, lcuk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDwjw6U2FIs	00:52
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crashanddie_	just the few 5 seconds is enough	00:53
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crashanddie_	and at 2:40	00:55
crashanddie_	"the word the"	00:55
wazd_	ok, now alcohol can suspend all my hate :)	00:56
wazd_	or surpress	00:56
wazd_	whatever :D	00:56
wazd_	suppress*	00:57
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julianoliver	wazd_: while simultaneously suspending your ability to spell. perfectly normal ;)	00:59
GAN900	lol	00:59
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lcuk	wow qwerty12_N900 http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/11/24/2025212/UK-File-Sharing-Laws-Unenforceable-On-Mobile-Networks?art_pos=3	01:00
lcuk	who woulda known	01:00
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SpeedEvil	Umm bullshit.	01:02
SpeedEvil	Ah - 'we don't want to spend the money to enforce' - slightly different thing.	01:03
SpeedEvil	Also the fun thing is that the spy comminunity hates this.	01:03
SpeedEvil	As of course a non-negligable fraction of people will decide they'd rather VPN to russia, and do their sharing there.	01:04
w00t_	as a matter of course thanks to things like the IWF and other rather scary trends rumbling around in the news, all my traffic goes via ssh port forwarding, and has done now for quite some time	01:07
w00t_	</tinfoilhat>	01:07
julianoliver	SpeedEvil: realistically though it is pretty tricky.. surely all you can do is log MAC addresses on the router and try and later pair those up with OS and browser fingerprints on another surveilled network, later. even if the infringer's domestic ISP is in on it, it's a hard case to push..	01:07
SpeedEvil	julianoliver: 3G	01:08
SpeedEvil	julianoliver: that was - largely - addressing	01:08
SpeedEvil	julianoliver: well - and GPRS	01:08
SpeedEvil	julianoliver: though I think anyone ripping movies over GPRS deserves them free!	01:08
julianoliver	right.. still waiting for the article to load. poor bandwidth.	01:08
julianoliver	hehe indeed!	01:08
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julianoliver	w00t_: have you got a link on this 'IWF'?	01:12
SpeedEvil	IWF - the Internet Watch Foundation.	01:12
SpeedEvil	Set up to deal with child porn, and of course, its remit has grown.	01:13
lcuk	whats the closest thing to the visual basic form editor for linux?	01:13
julianoliver	SpeedEvil: right	01:13
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w00t_	yup	01:14
krfkeith	anyone else have problems with their N900 not turning on?	01:14
w00t_	things like wikipedia, rapidshare, and other rather huge things going through the IWF made me feel rather uncomfortable about all that	01:15
krfkeith	my shows the nokia logo, then the backlight goes off, and then it goes off	01:15
krfkeith	so I pugged it into to charge, and it turns on without the backlight, then shuts off every minute or so	01:15
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krfkeith	it does hav*pugged	01:15
mikhas	krfkeith, try removing the battery?	01:16
krfkeith	yeah	01:16
mikhas	I only had those problems after reflashing	01:16
krfkeith	still has the same problem	01:16
krfkeith	but I'll try it again	01:16
mikhas	perhaps leave battery outside for a bit	01:16
wazd_	iiiinside my heart is breaking, my makup maybe flaking but my smile still stays on	01:16
mikhas	or perhaps the battery really is empty	01:16
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krfkeith	well, does it need to charge a little before it can turn on?	01:17
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Stskeeps	krfkeith: yex	01:17
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Stskeeps	bbl	01:17
krfkeith	Stskeeps: thanks	01:18
krfkeith	so is that turn off and on thing the normal cycle for charging?	01:18
kalikianatoli	what do you mean with turn off and on?	01:19
kalikianatoli	it does turn on, and stays on as far as I realize	01:20
krfkeith	well, it will show the nokia logo without the backlight and buzz	01:20
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mikhas	it takes a while	01:20
krfkeith	and then the screen goes balck for a few seconds and it shuts off	01:20
kalikianatoli	krfkeith, if you turn it on on low power, of course it will fail to boot :)	01:20
mikhas	give it 15-30 minutes, I never really checked how long it really takes before I can power it up once it was really flat	01:20
kalikianatoli	that's a natural problem	01:20
krfkeith	kalikianatoli: its plugged in	01:20
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kalikianatoli	krfkeith, Still it will try to use battery, for whatever reason	01:21
lcuk	n900 is always plugged in	01:21
lcuk	its like the technoviking of mobile phones	01:21
javispedro	because it has 3 minutes of battery life?	01:21
krfkeith	kalikianatoli: well, what happens is whenever I plug in the USB cable it automatically goes into this cycle	01:22
kalikianatoli	^^ that sounds odd then. if it's normally charged it should just make a "zoom" sound and charge	01:22
lcuk	try power from power socket	01:22
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Arkenoi	what's microUSB advantage over miniUSB? from my POV micro sucks	01:22
kalikianatoli	Arkenoi, tinyness	01:23
Arkenoi	it is almost the same size, does not really matter	01:23
mikhas	more diversity, more connectors, more profit =)	01:23
mikhas	USB was too universal when it came out	01:23
krfkeith	lcuk, for some reason they didn't send me an american charger	01:23
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krfkeith	which sucks	01:24
kalikianatoli	Arkenoi, for all I know it may have allowed the device to be 1mm thinner :)	01:24
kalikianatoli	other than that I agree	01:24
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Arkenoi	oh really? n900 is about the same thickness e90 is	01:24
Arkenoi	not thin at all	01:24
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Pavlov	it is pretty thick	01:25
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iDialekt	Feels way better than the e90 hands down	01:25
iDialekt	Compact, smooth.	01:25
Arkenoi	the keyboard is far superior on e90	01:25
kalikianatoli	it's thin for a phone with a keyboard imho	01:25
Arkenoi	i'd prefer n900 to be clamshell also	01:25
kalikianatoli	you seriously want the keyboard at the side of the display?	01:26
Arkenoi	the only design that allows the keyboard to be the same size the screen is	01:26
crashanddie_	well	01:26
crashanddie_	it's not	01:26
crashanddie_	so... tough?	01:26
krfkeith	I'd kinda like to get an e90	01:26
krfkeith	honestly, I kind of like the thickness	01:26
CyZooNiC	I'm selling mine as soon as I get the N900	01:26
krfkeith	I don't want something that breaks in half when you at it crossed eyed	01:27
* Arkenoi thinks i am going to sell e90 as well, but i will surely miss its keyboard ;-)		01:27
krfkeith	how much do e90's go for these days?	01:27
CyZooNiC	I love my E90 but it's time to move on.	01:27
mikhas	all I can say is that the n900 couldnt have been any smaller for my hands	01:27
CyZooNiC	I think around $200 on ebay, used	01:28
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mikhas	I cant imagine using the keyboard on a thinner device	01:28
Arkenoi	i guess $300 is what i'd like and $200 is more like what i gonna get ;-)	01:28
CyZooNiC	:)	01:28
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krfkeith	ah good to know	01:29
krfkeith	well I wonder what the heck is wrong with my N900	01:30
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krfkeith	I wonder if the USB isn't really charging it, and it jsut thinks it is, thus it turning off and on	01:30
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mikhas	you try to charge it with a normal USB cable	01:30
mikhas	that's most likely the problem	01:30
krfkeith	oh, you need a special one?	01:30
mikhas	no	01:30
mikhas	usually it works	01:31
CyZooNiC	Are you using a laptop?	01:31
mikhas	but it depends also on the other end, rihgt?	01:31
javispedro	ha ha ha ha ha hah	01:31
javispedro	hahaha	01:31
javispedro	ha	01:31
krfkeith	yeah, I'm on a laptop	01:31
javispedro	someone just said the Palm LifeDrive could do torrents	01:31
crashanddie_	krfkeith, use the power outlet cable	01:31
javispedro	for god's sake, the tcp stack had an accept bufer size of 1.	01:31
javispedro	just opening the port would have reduced your handheld to ash	01:32
krfkeith	crashanddie_: unfortunately I was accidently sent a UK outlet cable	01:32
crashanddie_	krfkeith, USB is a lot less powerful	01:32
crashanddie_	krfkeith, so basically, USB isn't providing enough power to boot the n900	01:32
CyZooNiC	Some laptops do not provide enoght power via their USB ports	01:32
krfkeith	ah	01:32
crashanddie_	krfkeith, you can leave it charging, but you're gonna burn out your battery	01:32
krfkeith	do you guys think a desktop might make a difference?	01:32
ShadowJK	burn out the battery?	01:32
crashanddie_	krfkeith, not really	01:32
krfkeith	ok	01:32
crashanddie_	yeah, charging/uncharging too fast	01:33
ShadowJK	eh?	01:33
crashanddie_	I already killed a n900 battery like that	01:33
ShadowJK	good thing it has 6month warranty then I guess	01:33
krfkeith	shoot, did I kill mine?	01:33
krfkeith	I had it doing that for ~10min	01:33
crashanddie_	n900 was completely empty, put it on the laptop, left it 2 days connected or so, got charged, but now it holds its charge for 6 hours	01:33
* ShadowJK suspects the completely empty part has more to do with it		01:34
krfkeith	wait	01:35
krfkeith	could I use the USB cable with one of those generic usb outlet chargers?	01:35
crashanddie_	krfkeith, just get a blackberry charger or something	01:35
crashanddie_	yeah, if it's microusb	01:36
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wazd_	N900 shipping delayed (4,159) - oh my	01:36
krfkeith	crashanddie_: no I mean one of the ones where you just plug in the usb A into it instead of a computer	01:36
crashanddie_	krfkeith, i use a blackberry charger at work, nokia at home, nokia travel when I travel (mini nokia connector + adapter to microusb provided with the N900)	01:37
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crashanddie_	anything works really	01:37
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crashanddie_	krfkeith, you can even use an N810 charger with that adapter	01:37
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Arkenoi	does n900 still have usb host? i need a special cable to use it, right?	01:38
crashanddie_	USB host is not supported ATM	01:39
SpeedEvil	USB host may or may not work.	01:39
SpeedEvil	Nobodies actually done the tests.	01:39
SpeedEvil	As I understand it. The proclamations that it's not supported so far seem to indicate that it's at least partially broken, but don't say that it won't work with external power.	01:40
SpeedEvil	I'll have an answer this week with luck - unless anyone else does.	01:40
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javispedro	I'm pretty certain people have tried.	01:42
javispedro	iirc it's also a software issue.	01:42
krfkeith	SpeedEvil: great!	01:42
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krfkeith	so theoretically it might work with external power and software patching?	01:43
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krfkeith	the question is how we supply the extra power	01:43
crashanddie_	Welcome to #maemo \| http://maemo.org \| http://maemo.nokia.com \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 \| New software image available: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	01:44
crashanddie_	woops	01:44
*** crashanddie_ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo \| http://maemo.org \| http://maemo.nokia.com \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 \| New software image available: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php"		01:44
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krfkeith	I wonder if the headphone port could be used, atleast to power simple flashdrives	01:44
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crashanddie_	eh?	01:46
crashanddie_	Are you on crystal meth?	01:46
krfkeith	I guess not :-(	01:46
krfkeith	do flashdrives use a lot of power?	01:46
crashanddie_	more like, does the jack provide a lot of power?	01:47
crashanddie_	I mean, it's a signal port, not power	01:47
krfkeith	I suppose not	01:47
crashanddie_	Have you ever heard your momma say "Don't put your fingers in the audio jack?"	01:47
krfkeith	I'm not well versed in that sort of thing	01:47
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krfkeith	I don't think I could fit my finger into an audio jack ;-)	01:48
crashanddie_	Well, try to look at it this way: The audio jack provides just enough power to move those tiny inny bitty speakers in the earbuds	01:48
krfkeith	yeah I know that	01:48
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crashanddie_	which is the tiniest of membranes mounted on a very small magnet	01:48
krfkeith	I just wasn't sure how much power that takes	01:48
crashanddie_	we're talking milliwatts here at loudest I think	01:49
krfkeith	ok	01:49
toggles_w	what about a solar panel infront of liqtorch?	01:49
SpeedEvil	javispedro: I've seen no reports saying 'I connected a USB device, applied power to it, and frobbed /proc - and it diddn't work'	01:50
CoreFusion-	lol	01:50
SpeedEvil	You can probably get at least 60mW from the headphone jack.	01:50
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SpeedEvil	But it's going to be somewhat annoying to extract it.	01:50
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crashanddie_	krfkeith, these professional headphones (http://smarthomesolution.net/buy-Sell/AKG-K141M.jpg) use 80mW	01:51
krfkeith	ok	01:51
Arkenoi	and there is video out as well	01:52
crashanddie_	which has no power output at all	01:52
SpeedEvil	The video out won't supply meaningful power.	01:52
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SpeedEvil	a half a milliwatt or so	01:52
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crashanddie_	So I think the audio jack power outlet -- even though a pretty good idea -- is dead	01:53
crashanddie_	also, it would mean outputting a very specific sound or image the whole time to keep the power steady	01:53
Arkenoi	n900 takes looong to charge, e90 did much faster. though i am charging it via old charger and connector, maybe that does matter?	01:53
crashanddie_	n900 charges in a about 2 hours for me, I think	01:54
Arkenoi	ah, so it really does matter as it already charges 3	01:54
Arkenoi	switched to original one	01:54
CoreFusion-	sure it does...	01:55
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krfkeith	I thought I saw somewhere that the power output of a standard USB 2.0 port is ~100mA	01:56
krfkeith	is that correct?	01:56
SpeedEvil	krfkeith: no	01:57
CoreFusion-	yes it it	01:57
SpeedEvil	krfkeith: It's somewhat complex. Basically	01:57
CoreFusion-	is*	01:57
till-	500mA is the specifiaction afaik	01:58
till-	and there is a low power mode as well	01:58
krfkeith	ah, I meant low-power	01:58
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krfkeith	sorry	01:58
SpeedEvil	krfkeith: The device should ask for no more than 100mA before negotiation. It can negotiate for up to 500mA - but the host may not grant this if it determines it can't supply it.	01:58
krfkeith	SpeedEvil:got it	01:59
krfkeith	so I'm assuming a bog standard flashdrive should be able to run on low power-mode?	01:59
CoreFusion-	150mA and 900mA in USB 3	01:59
SpeedEvil	The device can say that it can use 100mA or 300mA - for example a camera may be able to browse the FS with 100mA, but take pictures with 300mA	01:59
SpeedEvil	krfkeith: often	02:00
till-	i'm able to use a flashdrive with my n800 on hostmode, which provides about 100mA afaik	02:00
krfkeith	what about something like a keyboard or a gampad?	02:00
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krfkeith	*gamepad	02:00
till-	usb-keyboard as well	02:01
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krfkeith	I suppose we could use some sort of button-cell battery	02:03
krfkeith	probably the easiest/cheapest method	02:03
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Arkenoi	there is still no google latitude support, i guess? i use it much	02:05
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Arkenoi	google documents on the web work surprisingly good, i guess i can live without local office editor.	02:14
* SpeedEvil ponders openoffice.		02:15
* kalikianatoli likes abiword.		02:15
Arkenoi	is oo going to be ported soon?	02:16
kalikianatoli	Arkenoi, you can try it with easydebian	02:16
Arkenoi	maybe i will try. though on 256Mb RAM desktop computer it could be quite a nightmare	02:17
kalikianatoli	if it works on the n800 it will surely work on your desktop computer as well	02:19
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Arkenoi	i mean ooo is quite slow on the low-end desktops, so it should be about as painful with easydebian	02:21
javispedro	oo.org is slow on medium-end workstations.	02:22
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kynky	my n900 is currently in brussels	02:38
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w00t_	mine is currently sitting in some warehouse because my order got cancelled minirage	02:43
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climb5462	waaaaazzzzzzzuuuuuuupppppppp	02:43
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toggles_w	chickens arse when it's eating...	02:44
shiznebit_	does the skype use the front mounted camera, or the rear mounted camera ?	02:44
kynky	w00t_, how many you order ?	02:44
kynky	it would use front mounted for a number of reasons	02:44
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shiznebit_	k, but does it ?	02:44
climb5462	Skype can't do video calls yet shiz, as far as i know	02:44
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shiznebit_	thankyou climb5462	02:45
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* ShadowJK didn't get a tracking code for his n900 :-(		02:50
w00t_	ShadowJK: join me, brother :-)	02:51
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kynky	got tracking info when going from nokia uk shop to order history to tracking info to ups website , the tracking info from email didnt work	02:52
SpeedEvil	kynky: when did you order?	02:52
hotaru2k3	can the n900 do bluetooth DUN?	02:53
kynky	20th october, standard delivery	02:53
ShadowJK	I wasn't able to register a username so I can't log in :-)	02:53
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SpeedEvil	kynky: 20th oct also - standard delivery - but I've only had 'we're processing your order' - no tracking number	02:53
* w00t_ mutters about banks and nokia		02:54
kynky	i ordered about 3.30 am , my friend ordered 8am on 20th std delivery, he got processing email, but nothing else so far	02:54
SpeedEvil	I think I ordered around midday	02:55
kynky	he hopes payment goes through, he wants his discounts	02:55
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SpeedEvil	payment gone through for me	02:55
w00t_	I thought mine went through, until I recieved a cancellation email at 8:35am this morning, and a phone call from my bank at 10:30am asking if I wanted to authorise payment.	02:56
w00t_	way to give me time to authorise it!	02:56
w00t_	:P	02:56
kynky	you use all 3 discount codes ?	02:57
w00t_	no	02:57
SpeedEvil	kynky: yes - bought a battery too	02:58
* kynky wishes he got battery too		02:58
SpeedEvil	kynky: I dunno if that's important though. debit card - maybe that doesn't have as much authoriastion needed.	02:58
kynky	i used debit too	02:58
kynky	looks like ppl with cancelled orders cant reapply the discounts	02:59
luke-jr	lo	02:59
luke-jr	l	02:59
w00t_	yup	02:59
SpeedEvil	There is a 15% discound through topcashback still	03:01
SpeedEvil	err - 12 I think	03:01
kynky	yeah	03:01
kynky	but 3 x 15% + 10% topcashback was mega sweet	03:02
SpeedEvil	indeed	03:03
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SpeedEvil	I basically took the view that I could barely afford that.	03:03
SpeedEvil	So not going for all 3 was foolish.	03:03
SpeedEvil	And to partially pay for it - diet. Which is working well too. -6Kg.	03:04
toggles_w	what are people doing for bluetooth headsets?	03:04
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w00t_	yeah, I'm quite annoyed that I'm now being put out by a considerable amount of £	03:05
w00t_	after all the hassle already I really was tempted to just not bother	03:05
* ShadowJK hasn't found any bluetooth receiver yet		03:05
kynky	i got a free bt headset via vodafone i havent used , so might use that	03:06
ShadowJK	I'd like one that I can use whatever headphones I want with, and one that has play/pause/next/prev controls, and batterylife of 10 hours	03:06
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toggles_w	yeah, I guess i mean headphones + mic	03:06
toggles_w	i like the new nokia one, but $200 seems like a hell of a lot for headphones	03:07
w00t_	(very) good headphones have a high price	03:07
toggles_w	i suppose, their promo says they have 10 mics in them which is pretty wild	03:08
pupnik_	avoid Ultimate Ears	03:08
lcuk	w00t_, :D hiya	03:08
pupnik_	things corrode like crazy	03:08
w00t_	lcuk: evening	03:08
ShadowJK	the wires die on everything I have	03:08
* w00t_ bought a new pair of sennheisers and broke them in one day		03:09
w00t_	that was annoying	03:09
ShadowJK	and the plastic hardens to the point it's like a rock	03:09
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lcuk	my car likes the taste of gel headphone cables	03:09
pupnik_	i think the N900 headphones are very comfortable, stay in ear, and sound ok	03:09
pupnik_	but why is one side shorter	03:09
pupnik_	how do you wear that	03:09
* lcuk hasnt got any official headphones yet		03:09
toggles_w	pupnik_: for the mic?	03:10
ShadowJK	pupnik_, the bud with longer wire goes around behind your neck	03:10
pupnik_	oh	03:10
shiznebit_	HAHAHHAHA	03:10
shiznebit_	HAHAHAHA	03:10
pupnik_	ty :)	03:10
ShadowJK	that would be my guess atleast.	03:10
shiznebit_	WOW	03:10
pupnik_	i like the ones that are symmetrical, loop behind ear to avoid movement noise	03:11
ShadowJK	Yeah, I do the loop around ear	03:11
pupnik_	wish governments would allow a slightly stronger fm xmitter	03:12
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kynky	i got some shure se-210 headphones	03:12
ShadowJK	nice	03:13
lcuk	is there a way to do open source as performance art	03:13
toggles_w	kynky: calls?	03:13
ShadowJK	lcuk, you mean like the guy describing DeCSS source code by singing?	03:13
kynky	had some beyerdynamics dt250 before that	03:14
lcuk	ShadowJK, im thinking like a live exhibit	03:14
kynky	toggles_w, calls, well the 3.5mm jack, has 4 connections instead of 3, so can get adapter for microphone i guess	03:15
lcuk	but yeah, singing the decss might be cool	03:16
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kynky	decss t-shirts are art	03:17
lcuk	but not live performance art	03:18
AakashPatel	yoo	03:18
AakashPatel	what's up	03:18
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* qole looks around a bit		03:30
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* lcuk grabs his hunting rifle		03:31
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* lcuk makes funky qole sound to lure him into the open		03:32
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* qole uses his camoflauge coat to make himself harder to hit		03:33
lcuk	heh gd evening	03:33
qole	another day another homeward commute	03:34
lcuk	how long does the bus take	03:34
qole	40 mins	03:34
lcuk	ahh not that bad then	03:34
qole	sometimes 50	03:34
lcuk	i spotted something from you earlier and i cant remember what it was now	03:34
lcuk	when you were talking to jeremiah	03:34
* lcuk will remember		03:35
qole	easy-deb-chroot packages in free repos now?	03:36
lcuk	ahhh yes	03:36
lcuk	pushing git commits from device	03:36
lcuk	is this from within the chroot	03:36
lcuk	or native live	03:36
qole	and using git on-device?	03:36
lcuk	i use git from device	03:36
qole	chroot	03:36
lcuk	but only to git: sources	03:36
qole	but shared home directory	03:36
* lcuk nods		03:36
lcuk	oh cool	03:36
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qole	so I build with py2deb natively, and upload to garage via chroot git	03:37
lcuk	if i wanted to hare something that wasnt home folder i guess thats just configurable	03:37
qole	sure just mount maemo folder in chroot	03:38
lcuk	garage native git: support would be a beneficial improvement there	03:38
lcuk	cos then theres not even a chroot	03:38
lcuk	i store my code in /home/svn/.......	03:38
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lcuk	and it survives a flashing of main doofer	03:39
lcuk	and is executable as well :)	03:39
lcuk	supposing though i was gonna use a chroot for complete dpkg support	03:40
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lcuk	can i just have it completely transparent	03:40
qole	I have to set it all back up, flashed last night.	03:40
lcuk	yeah is most of your normal stuff back?	03:40
qole	what does transparent mean here	03:40
lcuk	well i run	03:41
lcuk	> make	03:41
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lcuk	> make install	03:41
lcuk	for instance	03:41
lcuk	can i just have chroot setup to continue inline	03:41
lcuk	> qole_dpkg	03:41
qole	you could build in chroot, run in Maemo, just keep two terms open	03:42
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kynky	screen ftw	03:42
lcuk	and have it take my current folderm open the chroot, run dpkg.. on it close chroot and return me to the console	03:42
lcuk	messy	03:42
qole	I have a development chroot on my website	03:42
lcuk	qole, complete sdk for me is 2 apt-get lines	03:42
lcuk	and from flash to working is <30 mins	03:43
* lcuk huggles build-essential		03:43
qole	you keep sdk in your main rootfs?	03:43
lcuk	yeah, just like regular linux	03:44
lcuk	maemo is only "special" cos of busybox	03:45
qole	regular linux has a bigger rootfs ;)	03:45
lcuk	meh, thats just a minor detail	03:45
lcuk	optify build-essential ;)	03:45
lcuk	and i used to do the same on 810	03:45
qole	clone your dev env to a partiton and then chroot to it	03:46
qole	keep the main partiton clean	03:46
qole	is mplayer optified yet? If not someone needs to do it.	03:47
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lcuk	qole, if i had booted from sd	03:48
lcuk	with a nice big 4gb card	03:48
lcuk	and made system work nicely	03:48
lcuk	could i chroot into that from a stock system	03:48
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qole	has anyone noticed slow microSD I/O on N900?	03:49
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qole	lcuk, of course	03:49
lcuk	not yet, i got a 4g card at weekend	03:49
lcuk	but ive not put anything on it	03:49
lcuk	i didnt want it as fat	03:49
kynky	i got a 16gb card class 2 though, works fast on my htc tp, will try on n900 on thurs	03:50
jaem	hrm	03:54
* jaem is working on a Qt app for Maemo		03:54
jaem	I'm somewhat confused about how Qt 4.6 handles Fremantle menus, though	03:54
jaem	submenus in Qt end up as "[TLM]/Name" buttons	03:55
jaem	are they all supposed to be top-level for Maemo?	03:55
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b-man17	~seen xnt14	03:55
infobot	xnt14 <n=xnt14@pool-71-190-240-27.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14d 14h 18m 18s ago, saying: 'awesome ;)'.	03:55
b-man17	hm	03:56
qole	I don't see any submenus anywhere.	03:56
lcuk	b-man17, you and xnt had a tiff? ;)	03:56
lcuk	i havent seen him for a while either ;)	03:56
lcuk	and i dont really miss his ;) lol	03:56
b-man17	lcuk, nah, i think he´s just busy with other things ;)	03:56
jaem	qole, I meant that Qt s/submenus/menuitems/ show up on Maemo as "Menu/MenuItem", rather than just the MenuItem name	03:57
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lcuk	b-man17, cool ;)	03:57
* b-man17 pokes him on twitter		03:57
lcuk	tell him i said ;)	03:58
b-man17	lol, shure xD	03:58
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b-man17	hmm, it looks like he´s trying to mess around with twitter api´s again xD	04:00
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jaem	qole, any idea?	04:02
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* b-man17 is soo happy to have a 5 day weekend		04:04
jaem	oh right, it's Fake Thanksgiving this weekend	04:05
jaem	lucky Americans ;)	04:05
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b-man17	xD ;)	04:05
fernando_	wait really	04:05
jaem	Pi Day is official down there too, now	04:05
jaem	also lucky	04:05
jaem	unfortunately, Pi Day is not a Stat :(	04:06
fernando_	awesome, I don't have class tomorrow	04:06
qole	jaem, no I just was saying there are no submenus in Maemo 5 anywhere.	04:06
jaem	qole, yes - I used the wrong word	04:06
pekuja	I'm too nerdy to celebrate Pi Day	04:06
jaem	thanks anyway	04:06
b-man17	fernando_: in collage?	04:06
qole	I'm home now, going offline...	04:06
jaem	cheers	04:07
fernando_	yeah	04:07
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b-man17	highschool here	04:07
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Xisdibik	Pi day?	04:15
fernando_	march 14	04:16
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Arkenoi	how do i quit fullscreen mode in fbreader on n900? there is no more "fullscreen" key used to control it, nor scroll keys are recognized	04:19
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paroneayea	Is there an equivalent to this:	04:29
paroneayea	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture	04:29
paroneayea	for applications?	04:29
paroneayea	besides knowing what libraries are non-free, would be good to know about applications	04:29
pupnik_	Arkenoi: try clicking corners, or report a bug	04:32
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* microlith wonders if he will successfully restart his N900 order tomorrow, or if Nokia's system will continue to suck		04:35
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AakashPatel	microlith, how much you buy it for?	04:54
AakashPatel	(or are going to)	04:54
microlith	AakashPatel: well, if they don't screw me it'll go for $600 or so	04:54
AakashPatel	are you in the US?	04:54
microlith	which is $100 less than what the preorder was for	04:54
microlith	yes	04:54
AakashPatel	amazon has it for the cheaps	04:54
AakashPatel	http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N900-Unlocked-Computer-Touchscreen/dp/B002OB49SW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=wireless&qid=1259104526&sr=8-1	04:54
AakashPatel	499	04:54
microlith	right, and if Nokia can't get their order system to work	04:54
microlith	I'll go with Amazo	04:54
microlith	amazon*	04:54
microlith	however, I don't think amazon is shipping yet and I would like it before late december	04:55
acidjazz	my buy.com n900 still hasnt shipped :(	04:55
acidjazz	they arent	04:55
acidjazz	either is buy.com	04:55
AakashPatel	microlith, oh is the Nokia one shipping?	04:55
microlith	yes, apparently	04:55
AakashPatel	erm nokia site	04:55
AakashPatel	:0	04:55
acidjazz	the only ppl shipping is nokia.com and theyre shipping preorders from months ago	04:55
microlith	right	04:55
acidjazz	you basically cant get one	04:55
microlith	I placed my preorder on September 3rd	04:55
acidjazz	has yours shipped	04:55
microlith	and nokia screwed the whole thing up	04:55
AakashPatel	:/	04:56
microlith	they don't know how to handle fraud alerts apparently	04:56
AakashPatel	I didn't want mine after half of december either	04:56
microlith	and every subsequent attempt to reorder was rejected by their system	04:56
microlith	I will try tomorrow	04:56
microlith	that's it	04:56
microlith	and I stick with this because there is no other device like the N900 out there	04:57
acidjazz	also nokia NY got some	04:57
acidjazz	but theyre gone	04:57
acidjazz	its like nokia made 500 and thats it	04:57
AakashPatel	microlith, do you have thelink to the nokia usa store?	04:57
acidjazz	theres a rumor on the forums of the next shipment being in february	04:57
AakashPatel	i cant figure out where to buy it	04:57
acidjazz	www.nokia.com	04:57
acidjazz	theres a link there	04:57
AakashPatel	Lol thanks	04:57
acidjazz	click usa	04:57
AakashPatel	i did	04:57
AakashPatel	OH haha	04:58
AakashPatel	Buy online	04:58
AakashPatel	didnt see that	04:58
AakashPatel	ouch 649	04:58
acidjazz	comes w/ a warranty	04:58
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AakashPatel	so does amazon's	04:58
acidjazz	nokia claims theres is better than amazons	04:58
acidjazz	thast what they told me	04:58
AakashPatel	Haha	04:59
AakashPatel	Yeah, I can't afford it from Nokia directly	04:59
AakashPatel	I heard thier stuffs shipping the end of this month :/	05:00
AakashPatel	maybe i was misinformed	05:00
acidjazz	it has been shipping	05:01
acidjazz	but only from nokia.com for people who ordered months ago	05:01
AakashPatel	hmm thats odd	05:01
acidjazz	not really	05:01
acidjazz	theyre shipping by the priority any company would	05:02
acidjazz	take care of direct pre-orders	05:02
AakashPatel	well, yeah but i mean they dont have it to ship out in mass quantities	05:02
acidjazz	then take care of distributors	05:02
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b-man17	what do you think the odds are of obtaining the device before 2010 if you ordered now ?	05:03
AakashPatel	^^ same q	05:03
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* b-man17 really wants his device sometime by late December at the latest :(		05:05
AakashPatel	as all of us :	05:07
AakashPatel	:) *	05:07
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microlith	b-man17: no joke, my current phone likes to lock up randomly when the cell radio gets activated	05:08
AakashPatel	What phone you have?	05:08
microlith	it's a loaner Motorola Ming A1200 that was on China Mobile	05:08
AakashPatel	Ah	05:09
b-man17	heh	05:09
microlith	I'm sure dastardly experiments were run on it a couple years ago	05:09
microlith	only interesting thing about it is the fact it runs linux and uses Qt for the UI	05:09
AakashPatel	Haha.	05:09
b-man17	lol	05:09
AakashPatel	I currently have an Android Dev Phone 1	05:09
AakashPatel	But it's slow as shit	05:09
AakashPatel	lol	05:09
microlith	we have a number of those at work	05:09
AakashPatel	Sweet	05:10
microlith	they've gathered up a bunch of myTouch devices	05:10
microlith	and are looking at getting some Droids	05:10
AakashPatel	Ah, played with my friends droid a few days ago	05:10
AakashPatel	real nice	05:10
AakashPatel	(Thats dirty lol)	05:10
b-man17	microlith: where do you work?	05:10
microlith	b-man17: numonyx	05:11
b-man17	ah	05:11
microlith	we make flash memory and whatnot	05:11
b-man17	sound cool :)	05:11
microlith	I'm not working on anything to do with the phones though	05:11
b-man17	that sucks	05:11
microlith	eh, I'm working on something far more interesting IMO, but I can't talk about it :>	05:12
b-man17	;)	05:12
microlith	it'	05:12
microlith	it'll be cool when I can though	05:12
AakashPatel	:0	05:12
b-man17	heh, i got to ride in a Smart Car 2 years before it was publicly available :)	05:13
acidjazz	i shit n900's	05:13
acidjazz	who wnats one	05:13
* b-man17 ´s parents use to work for GM		05:13
AakashPatel	o/	05:13
microlith	I'll take one, when you clean it	05:13
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AakashPatel	b-man17, GM makes the smart cars?	05:14
microlith	yah this is what the guys with phones have been doing: http://www.numonyx.com/en-US/ResourceCenter/SoftwareArticles/Pages/GoogleAndroidDemo.aspx	05:14
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AakashPatel	Oh taht tight	05:15
AakashPatel	I hit that point when my rams full all the time :/	05:15
b-man17	AakashPatel: to tell you the truth i´m not shure :s - i was at an international convention	05:16
AakashPatel	ah i see	05:16
b-man17	and i was only 9.. i think	05:16
pwnguin	has anyone actually connected the email app to exchange?	05:16
AakashPatel	b-man17, how old are you?	05:16
b-man17	17	05:16
AakashPatel	ah	05:16
AakashPatel	<- 16	05:16
b-man17	:)	05:17
microlith	I wish I had the money for an N900 when I was 17!	05:17
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microlith	:(	05:17
AakashPatel	o.O	05:17
b-man17	netsplit!	05:18
pwnguin	when i was 17 i stole technology, just like evreyone else!	05:18
b-man17	xD	05:18
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pwnguin	with the mp3 players and the cd burners and the flashcarts	05:18
AakashPatel	haha	05:18
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AakashPatel	wb	05:19
pwnguin	and the ROMs and emulators	05:19
b-man17	lol	05:19
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pwnguin	kids these days, paying for things. makes me sad on the inside	05:20
AakashPatel	Hahaha	05:20
b-man17	nah, i have $1375.00 xD	05:20
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pwnguin	b-man17: wait till college. that'll disappear real quick	05:20
AakashPatel	PLUS TAX	05:21
microlith	actually at 17 I bought my first PC	05:21
pwnguin	college students dont pay tax	05:21
microlith	awesome tech like the N900 didn't exist yet :/	05:21
b-man17	that money is reserved for my N900 and a Laptop ;)	05:21
lcuk	what waspc?	05:21
AakashPatel	haha half of thats gone for the n900	05:21
pwnguin	i didnt buy my first laptop till i was like 27	05:21
pwnguin	and the n900 will actually be the first mp3 player I might actually use	05:22
microlith	lcuk: ?	05:22
b-man17	xD	05:22
lcuk	what spec was the pc you got	05:22
lcuk	that wasnt n900ish	05:22
* lcuk started with zx spectrum and really got started with amiga		05:22
AakashPatel	I don't ge the point of mp3 players..if most phones modern can play music :/	05:22
AakashPatel	get*	05:22
microlith	oh, p2-400 with 128MB of ram, with an 8GB quantum bigfoot (5.25") and cheapy rage pro graphics	05:22
* b-man17 ´s first game system was a gameboy advance		05:23
AakashPatel	microlith, i've met worse lol	05:23
pwnguin	AakashPatel: they were cooler back when phones were massive and didnt play mp3s	05:23
microlith	AakashPatel: back in 1999, that was killer	05:23
lcuk	AakashPatel, believe it or not, some people prefer to keep things apart	05:23
AakashPatel	microlith, yeah, i saw one the other day...64MB of ram...running windows xp :/	05:23
pwnguin	of course, they also had like 32MB of RAM	05:23
AakashPatel	'HEY FIX MY COMP'	05:23
pwnguin	or storage really	05:23
AakashPatel	lcuk, crazies!	05:23
b-man17	XP Phone?	05:24
AakashPatel	b-man17, who speaks of such madness?	05:24
lcuk	lol AakashPatel	05:24
b-man17	google it ;)	05:24
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AakashPatel	b-man17, i've seen it on gizmodo lol that was enought	05:24
AakashPatel	enough*	05:24
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b-man17	you´ll laugh xD	05:24
AakashPatel	Haha	05:25
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pwnguin	i was talking with a dude and he was saying "i want a phone that i can wear like a watch. i'd never forget it."	05:25
pwnguin	i had to tell him his idea has been done dozens of times	05:26
AakashPatel	lol	05:26
* b-man17 could see them comming out with a Vista phone xDDD		05:26
lcuk	pupnik_, speak to analias next time hes about	05:26
lcuk	thats his area	05:26
AakashPatel	b-man17, i'd barf	05:26
AakashPatel	haha	05:26
b-man17	lol	05:26
pwnguin	didnt bother telling him that nobody wears a watch anymore since cellphones became every day carry	05:26
lcuk	i like the idea of a bluetooth small ui display	05:26
lcuk	so i can glance and see recent texts	05:26
lcuk	or calls etc	05:26
lcuk	from my phone	05:26
lcuk	but its a watch	05:26
AakashPatel	pwnguin, unless its a rolex lol	05:26
lcuk	there is already one	05:26
lcuk	problem is always battery	05:27
AakashPatel	thats that thing...inSight? or whatever	05:27
AakashPatel	idk	05:27
AakashPatel	i forgot lol	05:27
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pwnguin	lcuk: but you'd still have to carry a headset around	05:27
lcuk	handset	05:27
pwnguin	headset	05:27
AakashPatel	strap it to your face	05:27
pwnguin	bluetooth headset	05:28
lcuk	im talking about now interfacing with n900 hardware	05:28
lcuk	dont care for headset	05:28
lcuk	i dont call often	05:28
AakashPatel	me either	05:28
lcuk	quick glance, get time and recent lines of irc	05:28
AakashPatel	i have one layin around here...i think it got lost in the clutter hah	05:28
* pwnguin is in 14 channels		05:28
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pwnguin	recent lines of irc gets kinda pointless at that scale	05:28
lcuk	pwnguin, is that all?	05:29
b-man17	yup	05:29
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pwnguin	lcuk: gnometerm starts overlapping with irssi keys	05:29
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* ShadowJK wants a watch that can control mp3 player		05:29
lcuk	learn to xchat	05:29
lcuk	ShadowJK, yeah that would be cool	05:29
* lcuk wants it so liqwidgets can show in it :$		05:30
AakashPatel	OR! a watch that IS an mp3 player :0	05:30
* AakashPatel goes to patent it		05:30
ShadowJK	touchscreen is darn unusuable without taking phone out of pocket	05:30
pwnguin	maybe just strap a n900 to your wrist lanscape	05:30
pwnguin	bracer style	05:30
b-man17	AakashPatel: lol, allready been done xD	05:30
AakashPatel	b-man17, haha i was kidding :P	05:31
b-man17	i know ;P	05:31
AakashPatel	mmhmm	05:31
AakashPatel	lol.	05:31
pwnguin	wake me up when they have bluetooth video glasses	05:31
Arkenoi	n900 rejected my 10 years old 5v sim card	05:31
pwnguin	with integrated cameras for AR	05:31
lcuk	im gonna go to next fancy dress party as buzz lightyear	05:32
Arkenoi	good i had a copy on a newer chip	05:32
lcuk	im gonna stray n900 as arm computer	05:32
lcuk	strap	05:32
lcuk	and i better get some damned laser noises :D	05:32
* b-man17 googles for the most outrageous hardware combination		05:32
pwnguin	pocket watch computer	05:33
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b-man17	AakashPatel: http://www.menstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/mobile-watch-phone.jpg - windows mobile on a watch XD	05:34
AakashPatel	oh my	05:34
AakashPatel	are you sure thats winmo? lol	05:34
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krfkeith	well I found a USB wall charger and it's still having the same on and off cycling issue	05:35
b-man17	AakashPatel: http://www.menstech.com/category/wearables/?snap=W	05:36
AakashPatel	Whoever made taht should be shot	05:36
AakashPatel	lol	05:36
Arkenoi	b-man: still not in production	05:37
* Arkenoi has nucleus-based wristwatch		05:37
Arkenoi	cect w600	05:38
krfkeith	any ideas on what my issue is/	05:38
Arkenoi	no java, not enough space in firmware for it	05:38
b-man17	AakashPatel: indeed xD	05:38
Arkenoi	aakash: actually not wm but wince6.0	05:38
Arkenoi	and still a prototype not available for purchase	05:38
Arkenoi	5.0 even	05:39
Arkenoi	it cannot run wm programs	05:39
AakashPatel	it's still a windows watch	05:39
AakashPatel	haha	05:39
Arkenoi	but you cannot buy it	05:39
Arkenoi	all models currently available are nucleus-based	05:39
AakashPatel	Like people would	05:39
Arkenoi	on mediatek chipset	05:39
krfkeith	I don't mind WinMo	05:39
AakashPatel	krfkeith, but on a watch? ;)	05:40
* b-man17 HATES Microsoft		05:40
pupnik_	why lcuk	05:40
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krfkeith	AakashPatel: that's true	05:40
* krfkeith hates Apple		05:41
krfkeith	atleast you can (theoretically) develop for it...	05:41
* b-man17 hates both ;)		05:41
krfkeith	but putting WinMo on a watch is stupid	05:41
AakashPatel	srsly	05:41
Arkenoi	krfkeith: not really	05:41
* krfkeith hates most large American corporations		05:41
Arkenoi	it is not that bad	05:41
Arkenoi	not much worse than nucleus	05:41
krfkeith	what's nucleues?	05:42
krfkeith	*nucleus	05:42
b-man17	google it ;)	05:42
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Arkenoi	nucleus is opensource in theory	05:45
Arkenoi	but i'd yet to see someone who managed to create working independant firmware for any device available on the market	05:46
AakashPatel	is the n900 screen "mushy" at all?	05:47
AakashPatel	like some other devices with resistive screens?	05:47
krfkeith	Arkenoi: is it some sort of PDA software?	05:47
microlith	nucleus is an embedded OS targeted at phones and other consumer electronics	05:48
b-man17	AakashPatel: not from what i´ve herd	05:48
lcuk	AakashPatel, no its a pleasure to use	05:48
AakashPatel	sweet	05:48
Arkenoi	actually n900 screen is much more than one could expect from a reisitive touchscreen	05:49
Arkenoi	it really wondered me	05:49
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krfkeith	Arkenoi: so were you saying that you have a watch with the Nucleus RTOS?	05:49
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krfkeith	this is so frustrating	05:49
Arkenoi	krfkeith, yep, cect w600, quite nice one	05:50
lcuk	yes the screen is the best ive ever written on	05:50
krfkeith	Arkenoi: looks neat, does it have any sort of applications for it?	05:51
AakashPatel	Oh yeah, another question, does maemo have an 'on screen' keyboard?	05:51
b-man17	brb	05:51
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lcuk	i think it does, i never use it tho	05:51
AakashPatel	oh cool	05:51
Arkenoi	krfkeith: there is a rumour there are some, but i never managed to install any.	05:52
lcuk	hi Ford_Prefect \o	05:52
Ford_Prefect	Heya lcuk :)	05:53
* lcuk has seen you somewhere else		05:53
Arkenoi	it lasts about 3 days standby time with GSM network, which is not bad for a wristwatch at all, SE model hardly manages that having no GSM module, just bluetooth	05:53
lcuk	its awful for a wristwatch	05:54
lcuk	mine used to last months	05:54
Arkenoi	for GSM-enabled i'd not expect more ;-)	05:55
lcuk	it was an occasion to need to change watch battery	05:55
Arkenoi	it charges via USB	05:56
lcuk	is there an sdk?	05:58
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Arkenoi	yep, but is is cryptic and all-chinese ;-)	06:00
lcuk	thats ok, my code will make them scratch heads just as much	06:00
lcuk	i just need a few baseline fns	06:00
Arkenoi	am i right that unlike other nokia screens n900 is not reflective at all so it is no good under direct sunlight?	06:06
lcuk	i dunno	06:07
AakashPatel	it isnt?	06:07
lcuk	i live in manchester, direct sunlight is rare	06:07
AakashPatel	Looks glossy to me lol	06:07
krfkeith	anyone know any stores that carry N900 compatible batteries?	06:11
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AakashPatel	krfkeith, the Nokia store	06:12
AakashPatel	hehe	06:12
krfkeith	I don't think they have one in Houston :-(	06:12
GAN900	krfkeith, BL-5J, same as in the 5800.	06:12
krfkeith	yeah, I know the model number	06:13
krfkeith	do they have them at batteries plus or radioshack	06:13
GAN900	Probably a lot cheaper to get one online.	06:13
AakashPatel	look it up?	06:13
AakashPatel	GAN900++	06:13
krfkeith	has anyone noticed the search function sucks on most sites?	06:14
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* b-man17 is back		06:34
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* microlith watches the short term value of Talk plummet		06:57
esaym153	howdy, I am thinking about using my n810 to replace my ipod. But before I go and buy a giant sd card I would like to know if any of the media players for it support making play lists for music files?	06:57
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tank-man	I feel confident in saying all the music players let you make playlists	07:07
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dmj726	Does the aGPS on n900 only work with a data plan?	07:19
dmj726	microlith: talk has grown nearly useless right now.	07:20
tank-man	probably works with wifi too	07:21
dmj726	I knew it would work on wifi, but I was curious if it required a dataplan or just regular cell service.	07:21
* dmj726 guesses it's the first option.		07:22
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GAN900	Arkenoi, it's transflective. Fine in sunlight.	07:26
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pupnik_	boo	07:44
jaem	ahh!	07:45
* jaem hides behind a widget		07:45
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jaem	...hmm	07:48
jaem	anyone else geting 401s while trying to pull packages from repository.maemo.org?	07:48
jaem	specifically, extras-devel	07:48
jaem	it's intermittent for me	07:48
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RST38h	reMoo all	08:09
jaem	moo to you also	08:09
Klowner	jaem: yeah, been doing that all day	08:10
jaem	Klowner, mooing, or hiding?	08:10
Klowner	oh, the maemo repo going 401'y	08:10
Klowner	I've been mooing too	08:10
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jaem	oh... there was no subject in that sentence ;)	08:11
jaem	lol	08:11
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Klowner	I should just drive to the dang Chicago store	08:17
Klowner	but as soon as I get there I'll probably get a shipping notification from amazon	08:18
jaem	Klowner, that sounds like the typical bus problem	08:19
Klowner	I'd take my car	08:19
jaem	if you walk home, it'll pass you halfway, but if you wait, you'll wait twice as long as it would have taken to walk	08:19
Klowner	er, what?	08:19
Klowner	yes	08:19
jaem	that problem	08:19
jaem	of course, that's really just psychological	08:19
jaem	...mostly...	08:19
jaem	:S	08:20
Klowner	like when I was on dial-up, I calculated what kind of bandwidth I could have by hiring kids to carry DVD-Rs in backpacks across town	08:20
jaem	ha!	08:20
jaem	was it better?	08:20
Klowner	yes	08:20
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Klowner	well, depends.. if the kids are reliable and don't break down often	08:21
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dmj726	Klowner: of course for small transfers increased bandwidth is offset by the high latency of the kids	08:27
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dmj726	A super tanker carrying hard disks has very high bandwidth too.	08:28
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Klowner	dmj726: loading them up with candy decreases their latency	08:28
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RST38h	heya Arkenoi	08:37
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pupnik_	maybe 22fps really isnt so bad	08:44
pupnik_	just speeds i see here...	08:45
pupnik_	i dont want to say too much :(	08:45
pupnik_	looks like some mistakes are present in our dosbox build	08:46
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RST38h	hm, are you sure this is not due to dosbox itself?	08:47
pupnik_	i db should use dirty buffers to only update changed regions, at least at 640x480	08:48
RST38h	also, real 22fps with a frameskip of 3 is just fine	08:48
pupnik_	since we have lovely sw scaling, that may need reenabling	08:48
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RST38h	You can take the same code I have given javispedro and use it	08:49
pupnik_	dipping below 10 briefly hurts more yeah	08:49
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RST38h	it will scale in assembly language	08:49
pupnik_	cool and ty ?)	08:49
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RST38h	ok, work.	08:51
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pupnik_	adding /dev/dsp to n900 would be a nice project	08:57
Klowner	adding an n900 to my pocket would be a better project	08:58
Xisdibik	get in line Klowner my pocket needs one first ;)	08:58
Lupu	hehe	08:58
* Klowner fills Xisdibik's pockets with pudding		08:58
Klowner	yours are full!	08:59
pupnik_	there is much to do	08:59
Klowner	I want to play with GL ES	08:59
pupnik_	if anyone is working on a game port lemme know	08:59
pupnik_	i might have useful things for you	09:00
Xisdibik	Klowner thats not my pocket	09:01
Klowner	eeew	09:01
Xisdibik	who did you order yours from klowner?	09:01
pupnik_	but our perfolrmance situation is neither happy not moticating	09:01
Klowner	slowazon	09:01
Klowner	er, amazon	09:01
Xisdibik	what date did u preorder?	09:02
Klowner	nov 6	09:02
Xisdibik	ah, later than me	09:02
Xisdibik	i did slowazon also	09:02
Klowner	later than many	09:02
Klowner	yours shipped didn't it?	09:03
Xisdibik	nope	09:03
Xisdibik	lol	09:03
pupnik_	try Enigma game when u get n900	09:03
Klowner	that sucks	09:03
Klowner	pupnik_: enigma game?	09:04
pupnik_	marble - puyyle - skill game with accelerometer steering	09:04
pupnik_	p.uy	09:04
pupnik_	puz	09:04
Klowner	lol	09:05
Klowner	puzzle?	09:05
pupnik_	mhm	09:05
Klowner	cool	09:05
Klowner	2D or 3D?	09:05
pupnik_	2	09:05
Xisdibik	any good simulation games for the n900?	09:05
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pupnik_	like what	09:06
pupnik_	afaik no	09:06
Xisdibik	like.. simcity (but not simcity)	09:07
pupnik_	there was openttd for n8x0	09:07
pupnik_	and some sim city clone too	09:07
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Xisdibik	probably lincity	09:10
Klowner	If I could find some info regarding doing OpenGL ES stuff with the SDK I'd start tinkering now	09:11
Xisdibik	how effective is dosbox on the n900, for like old win95 games	09:11
Klowner	haven't had time to dig though	09:11
pupnik_	no windows	09:12
pupnik_	runs most dos games from 1981-1990 fine	09:12
pupnik_	mouse is broken	09:12
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pupnik_	turning off sound you get maybe 20mhz 386 or better	09:15
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kirma	is there alt-tab style window switching shortcut on n900/maemo5?	09:16
Arkenoi	is there pgp-enabled email client for maemo? or maybe pgp plugin?	09:16
kirma	that's available on e90, and I'm missing it quite a bit	09:17
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wazd	hello maemo	09:17
pupnik_	kirma ctrl-del	09:20
pupnik_	app overview - no "tab" switching	09:20
pupnik_	no inferior tab switching	09:21
kirma	well, I know ctrl-backspace, but that's not what I want :I	09:23
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kirma	I suppose window manager (or what it should be called) is open source?	09:23
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kirma	most of the applications being switched are on "top of the stack" at least for me	09:24
kirma	I can imagine several ways of doing it really	09:27
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:31
SpeedEvil	^stormy	10:32
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tlir	lo...	10:34
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johnx	allo tlir	10:35
pillar	good morning	10:36
tlir	how's everyone today?	10:37
pillar	good since my n900 is right beside me :)	10:38
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pillar	wondering though how to check the firmware version to see if the topics firmware is newer	10:38
maexmo	good morning	10:38
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tigert	pillar: controlpanel > about product	10:40
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johnx	dunno how everyone else is, but I'm ok	10:42
johnx	long day though	10:42
maexmo	how do i start x-terminal if running maemo5 with virtualbox, the standard shortcut does not work as it seems? my deeper prob is - ubuntu has internet, resolv.conf is copied to maemo but it does not have internet connect. so i would like to see what ifconfig shows..	10:42
pillar	tiger nice, thank you	10:42
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vesa	maexmo: check the resolv.conf outside scratchbox for the dns address that it's the same within scratchbox. atleast that was my solution to the same problem	10:45
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maexmo	thanks vesa, /etc/resolv.conf + /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf are the same. but still does not connect	10:49
maexmo	is it possible to access x-terminal at the emulation too?	10:50
det	How feasible would it be to get a n900 with only a data plan and make all phone calls over skype ?	10:50
maexmo	:> nice idea with skype out . . our providers here do have extra plans for skype calls on mobile phones .. so if you call 10 mins overs skype they will extra charge that 10 mins additionally to the skype-out costs. depends on your provider if they limit / charge skype/voip calls	10:51
det	Is that responding to me ?	10:51
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ali1234	det: i heard that 3 in the UK are doing a data plan that allows you to do exactly that, and the skype usage doesn't even come out of your data allowance or cost you anything beyond what you pay for skype out, so...	10:53
Arkenoi	maexmo: route it over vpn and they won't notice ;-)	10:53
ali1234	so i guess it completely depends where you live	10:54
det	How well does skype cope with changing IP address?	10:54
det	For instance, I am using my home wifi, and I leave my house and change to tmobile data service ?	10:54
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det	all while speaking on the phone	10:54
Termana	yello	10:55
ali1234	heh, no, that isn;t going to work	10:55
Arkenoi	actually i think extra charging for certain kinds of network traffic is very questionable practice and even illegal in most countries	10:55
crashanddie_	no it's not	10:55
det	Arkenoi, ToS preventing certain kinds of service is well established	10:55
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det	I would expect something like SIP could be easily hidden though	10:56
crashanddie_	they can prove by a + b that specific kind of network traffic is more costly as more people use it at a given time (for example, their tier 2 backbone to facebook costs a lot more to manage than a simple link to securabit.com)	10:56
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* Arkenoi thinks network neutrality should be enforced by the law to prevent greedy telecoms from abuse		10:57
tank-man	what? isnt this what the whole network nuetrality thing is about?	10:57
Myrtti	it's all a global conspiracy	10:57
tank-man	how does 1MB of data going to/from facebook cost more than 1MB of data going to/from google.com	10:57
det	disallowing skype isnt much different than home broadband disallowing running servers	10:57
Arkenoi	well, that's what i pay for	10:57
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Arkenoi	and if they sell me the service it is not their business how do i use it	10:58
Myrtti	Arkenoi: er, unless you abuse it	10:58
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det	It would be really nice to have VOIP only phone	10:58
Myrtti	and they define abuse, not you	10:58
Arkenoi	i paid for it, therefore it is not abuse	10:58
crashanddie_	tank-man, I didn't say that, but facebook uses more data, and is used by more people than any other website (for the sake of example)	10:58
det	that switches wifi and 3g	10:58
Myrtti	Arkenoi: ahahah, have a lollipop	10:58
Arkenoi	thinking voip is any different is abuse	10:58
Myrtti	your naivite is refreshing	10:58
Arkenoi	myrtti: here in russia if you block voip you will probably get your ISP license revoked	10:59
Arkenoi	and that's right	10:59
maexmo	back again .. arkenoi .. yea doing a openvpn tunnel to my server and routing all internet traffic / skype traffic over it .. good idea :D	10:59
crashanddie_	Arkenoi, when you go to a car dealer, and the ferrari enzo is at just over a million, and you say "I want to be able to pull a caravan with it". They won't stop you, but the warranty will be void pretty soon. Same thing here really. You can pay for it all you want, that doesn't mean ANYONE on earth has to accommodate you	10:59
det	crashanddie_, that is a terrible analogy	11:00
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crashanddie_	det, agreed	11:00
crashanddie_	I just woke up	11:00
Myrtti	Arkenoi: Skype isn't all about voip, and abuse defined by isp can cover just about anything even from using google if you do nothing but refresh google.ru every three seconds.	11:00
tlir	how many here have setup'ed their mobile devices to access their email/ms exchange services?	11:01
Arkenoi	and voip traffic is ridiculously small compared to say. blueray image download	11:01
crashanddie_	tlir, pretty much everyone	11:01
Myrtti	Arkenoi: but Skype is more than just voip. it's p2p technology too.	11:01
Arkenoi	the difference is they are trying to sell obsolete and useless thing that actually does not exist and is not even a service, called "long distance"	11:01
crashanddie_	Arkenoi, no, not at all.	11:01
Arkenoi	there is no such kind as "distance" in the internet	11:01
Myrtti	yes, there is	11:02
Myrtti	but nevermind	11:02
Myrtti	moving on	11:02
tlir	uhmm... I'm having some paranoia issues with doing it since I am then having to expose my user/pass details to the service (in my case it's gmail)	11:02
crashanddie_	Arkenoi, if I "max out" the available bandwidth through Skype or through any other protocol, do you think there's any kind of difference?	11:02
tbf	Arkenoi: Myrtti: hops? latency?	11:02
Arkenoi	crash: so no one should care which protocol i do actually use	11:02
tbf	Arkenoi: just run tracepath/traceroute against your home router, your ISP's website, your local news paper and some site on the other side of the globe	11:03
Arkenoi	if it is perfectly legal for me to download blueray images then skype should be as well	11:03
tlir	the actual paranoia is that if the device is stolen/lost then anyone with a bit of knowledge will be able to get the user/pass details for the account.	11:03
crashanddie_	Arkenoi, the thing is no one actually used P2P on 3G networks -- the ISPs haven't "noticed" yet	11:03
tbf	there is distance.	11:03
Arkenoi	actually i hate skype and prefer sip ;-)	11:03
Myrtti	Arkenoi: but we're not talking about LEGALITY, are we?!	11:03
crashanddie_	tlir, no they wouldn't	11:03
tlir	crashanddie_: why not?	11:03
crashanddie_	tlir, because we only save a hash of the password?	11:03
tlir	crashanddie_: these details are stored in the device.	11:03
crashanddie_	tlir, security best practises 101	11:03
maexmo	the point is that if you do skype calls, you do harm the local telecom companies because you do not use their phone services where they are earning their money. since you do phone services over ip, its legal to charge a very small amount for using they dataservices for phone calls. dont know if the law is same in whole europe but in austria it is like that.	11:03
Myrtti	Arkenoi: we're talking about the sanctions put up by the isp, not some wishywashy legal issues	11:03
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tlir	crashanddie_: whose "we" that save a hash of the password?	11:04
crashanddie_	tlir, pinky and the brain	11:04
Arkenoi	crash: just because we do not have true unlimited data plans here. by the way, p2p is most of 4g network traffic here in Russia as 4g is flat rate	11:04
det	one of the reasons I would like to use skype over 3g/wifi is so I could have 1 number at home or cell	11:04
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tlir	crashanddie_: seriously.	11:04
hrw	morning	11:04
crashanddie_	Arkenoi, det, I use skype all the time over 3g	11:04
Myrtti	4g?	11:04
Myrtti	wow	11:04
crashanddie_	I use my corporate SIM card, works fine	11:05
Myrtti	so the LTE/whatever adoption is going on fast in russia?	11:05
Arkenoi	wimax	11:05
Myrtti	oh, Wimax...	11:05
Myrtti	right.	11:05
maexmo	i like sip more too .. since i can call trough my sipaccount and clip (show) my standard phonenumber to other users :) they never know if i am calling from landline or sip client	11:05
det	crashanddie_, can skype switch from 3g to wifi without losing the call ?	11:05
Arkenoi	quite wide adoption and good coverage in big cities	11:05
crashanddie_	det, no	11:05
det	that's too bad	11:05
crashanddie_	det, well, understandable really	11:05
det	I dont know, seems rather simple to implement	11:05
crashanddie_	det, it does?	11:06
maexmo	back to my question > how do i enter x-terminal in virtualbox maemo ?	11:06
det	send some new packets from new IP address switching to new IP ?	11:06
Arkenoi	wimax is better than lte because unlike lte wimax networks are not owned by phone companies who try to sell voice traffic by reidiculously high price	11:06
Arkenoi	so they just do not care if someone "loses money"	11:06
crashanddie_	det, ignorance is bliss?	11:06
det	crashanddie_, perhaps	11:07
tlir	crashanddie_: I'm really serious. can you explain please?	11:07
det	crashanddie_, what phone do you use to make 3g skype calls ?	11:07
crashanddie_	det, n900	11:07
maexmo	:X	11:07
Arkenoi	maexmo: i do the same ;-)	11:07
maexmo	not available yet here :(	11:07
det	crashanddie_, how does 3g/wifi work	11:07
det	crashanddie_, if you move into a hotspot	11:08
crashanddie_	through the air	11:08
maexmo	what prices did u pay? without service contract	11:08
det	do you have 2 ip addresses?	11:08
det	does it ask you to switch, etc ?	11:08
crashanddie_	maexmo, didn't pay for it	11:08
crashanddie_	det, you can configure a whole lot of behaviours	11:08
maexmo	nice testimonial? :>	11:08
det	crashanddie_, can you be connected to both at once ?	11:08
crashanddie_	maexmo, I was in amsterdam during the summit	11:08
crashanddie_	det, but usually, the default, is that it connects to 3g when there is no wifi available, and disconnects 3g when there is wifi that you previously accepted or provided a key for	11:09
maexmo	at the coffeshop ^^	11:09
ali1234	maexmo: do you mean the SDK running in virtualbox, or do you mean... in the maemo running in the SDK in the virtualbox?	11:09
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crashanddie_	as far as I can tell, you not be connected to both networks at once	11:09
crashanddie_	s/you/you can/	11:09
infobot	crashanddie_ meant: as far as I can tell, you can not be connected to both networks at once	11:09
det	crashanddie_, so if you are making a 3g phone call and come into range of your home wifi, your call is dropped by default ?	11:10
maexmo	ali1234: right! i run Maemo_PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image	11:10
crashanddie_	det, could be, never tried it	11:10
ali1234	maexmo: so, is the question how to start a terminal on the ubuntu?	11:10
hrw	crashanddie_: you should be able to be connected to 3G and WiFi at same time. maybe maemo connection manager does not allow it but otherwise it is doable	11:10
crashanddie_	ali1234, applications > accessories > terminal	11:10
det	crashanddie_, ok, thanks for the info	11:11
crashanddie_	hrw, my thoughts as well	11:11
maexmo	ali1234: no, i am familiar with ubuntu + debian .. i need to access the maemo x-terminal (on that n900)	11:11
hrw	crashanddie_: basically with n900 you can have 4 normal interfaces at same time + countless vpns	11:11
maexmo	crashanddie_ on my vers there is no terminal in the accessories	11:11
crashanddie_	maexmo, oh, you're talking about the n900?	11:11
hrw	crashanddie_: usb0 (usbnet), bnep0 (BT PAN), ppp0 (3G,gsm), wlan0 (wifi)	11:11
Stskeeps	maexmo: virtualbox/Virtual Image is not a N900 emulator	11:12
ali1234	maexmo: well... the scratchbox shell is exactly the same thing as running a terminal within the X session	11:12
maexmo	mhm it looks like the n900 so it seems like emu :> even its a sdk i want to have a bit look and feel of n900	11:12
hrw	crashanddie_: and of course maemo will tell you that usb0 and bnep0 are not possible	11:13
crashanddie_	hrw, yet	11:13
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maexmo	ali1234: thanks so i use that scratchbox shell and will try to figure out why my maemo does not have internet connect	11:14
hrw	maexmo: internet connection or name resolving?	11:15
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maexmo	hrw: i dont know but i think internet connection, since i have same resolv.conf in scratchbox as in /etc/	11:16
crashanddie_	maexmo, can ubuntu access the web?	11:16
hrw	maexmo: "ping 212.33.64.2"	11:16
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maexmo	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > bash ping command not found	11:17
hrw	I love sbox	11:17
maexmo	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > ifconfig shows same ip as ubuntu ip .. hmmm	11:17
maexmo	its cool with ... Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800×480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -kb & ... it looks like n900 :)	11:18
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jjo	you need the same resolv.conf in /scratchbox/etc as well as in the target /etc	11:18
maexmo	i do have	11:18
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hrw	maexmo: welcome in sbox world where things can be broken in ways you never thought that it is possible	11:19
maexmo	xD	11:19
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maexmo	hrw: you make good mood	11:19
maexmo	hrhr	11:19
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maexmo	< afk > 5 min	11:19
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zeev	Hi, anybody got his preordered n900 already??	11:20
zeev	in USA	11:20
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maexmo	where is it cheapest to buy? :> no contract	11:22
`0660_	the question is: where can one buy it? :)	11:23
maexmo	^^	11:23
zeev	http://store.nokia.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdetailbymodel_10500_10101_-1_10000367_Y	11:24
crashanddie_	god play.com has starte to have a shitty service	11:25
crashanddie_	order placed on sunday, still says "packing", I call the service, they're saying the thing isn't in stock... "So why doesn't the website say Temporarily out of stock?" "Because we're packing them" "But you don't have them" "Correct" "..."	11:26
tigert	bah	11:27
maexmo	lol	11:27
tigert	hopefully its a glitch that goes away	11:27
tigert	play.com has been good in service	11:27
hrw	;d	11:28
jjo	I just had that also	11:28
hrw	I wish I can say same about DDP	11:28
jjo	crashanddie_: did they charge for it already?	11:29
crashanddie_	"Can I cancel the order, I'm leaving the country on sunday and won't receive the items in time" "No, as we are packing you can't cancel anymore" "But you said you didn't have them in stock" "Correct" "So why can't I cancel, it hasn't been dispatched"	11:29
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jjo	they did for me and when I asked them to cancel the order and refund, they didin't refund it fully	11:30
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crashanddie_	I'll call from the office, after calling my bank to cancel the payment	11:30
crashanddie_	late for work, talk later, doei!	11:30
maexmo	crazy..	11:30
crashanddie_	(Canceling the payment usually helps to have them cancel the order... They find some miraculous way to do it)	11:31
maexmo	for sure :P	11:31
Arkenoi	is it possible to have "nokia phone" style screensaver on n900 (non-backlit picture)?	11:31
suihkulokki	your battery lasts too long?	11:31
Arkenoi	:-)	11:32
Arkenoi	does it consume battery too much?	11:32
Arkenoi	if symbian can afford it, why maemo cannot?	11:32
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Stskeeps	Arkenoi: i always wondered how they manage to pull that off	11:33
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RST38h	Sts: Backlight off, wake up and update every 3-5 seconeds	11:35
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Arkenoi	rst38h: and how long will it last?	11:36
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Stskeeps	morning felbutss	11:48
felbutss	lol its 8.47 pm where i am	11:48
felbutss	lol	11:48
Stskeeps	timezones are a bitch P	11:48
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Stskeeps	felbutss: you don't happen to have any other phones that use the same battery type?	11:49
felbutss	ye no luck, tryed it in linux and no hope.	11:49
felbutss	lol thats what i was thinking	11:49
felbutss	but no i dont	11:49
felbutss	i does turn on fully backlit but freezs and turns off so i dont think the battery is low	11:49
Stskeeps	ok, still got the linux machine open?	11:50
hrw	~ugt	11:50
infobot	well, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html	11:50
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felbutss	i can boot it up. got linux on a Bootable usb stick. want me 2?	11:51
Stskeeps	yes please	11:51
felbutss	just a sec	11:51
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maexmo	hrw: thanks that made my day :D .. never heard about ugt since i use irc .. 14 years more or less frequently.. lol	11:53
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Lorthirk	good morning guys	11:54
sjaensch	hi	11:55
Lorthirk	i was wondering... would the community take benefit from an(other?) technic blog about programming for n900/maemo?	11:56
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Stskeeps	Lorthirk: any contributions that aren't trolling are obviously welcome :)	11:56
Lorthirk	yes, this was my first thought	11:57
Lorthirk	but then i found myself thinking about the REAL advantage	11:57
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Stskeeps	which is..? :P	11:59
Lorthirk	which is the reason i asked the question in the first place :)	12:00
Lorthirk	i mean	12:00
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Lorthirk	it will be "yet another programming blog"	12:01
Lorthirk	or maybe somehow could find it really useful?	12:01
Stskeeps	tutorials? :P	12:01
Stskeeps	someone's investigating maemo6 UI stuff too	12:02
Stskeeps	check out what exists on planet.maemo.org already	12:02
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Stskeeps	find your niche..	12:02
Stskeeps	:P	12:02
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Lorthirk	it's all about finding a niche, it seems	12:03
Lorthirk	i'm a fresh-graduated programmer, and i thought that dealing with maemo would have been my niche	12:04
Lorthirk	now i have to find a niche in the niche :D	12:04
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RST38h	heya wazd, VDVsx	12:14
VDVsx	morning RST38h	12:14
RST38h	"An Oz Outback community is battling to regain control of its town from a 6,000-strong feral camel invasion, which has seen the thirsty dromedaries cause "chaos" in their search for water."	12:14
Jaffa	crashanddie_: All packed?	12:17
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Lorthirk	the earth is taking its revenge?	12:18
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srikumar_hyd	can anyone tell where can i find the kernel image file in FREMANTLE_ARMEL target?	12:18
srikumar_hyd	i just installed maemo SDK5 on my ubuntu and set FREMANTLE_ARMEL target....	12:19
wazd	RST38h: heya, hello all :)	12:19
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felbutss	hey stskeeps. im trying to boot linux on my laptop(ive tryed 2) and the mouse pad isnt working. i even tryed a USB mouse lol. dam dam dam	12:37
felbutss	wht would u like me 2 try anyway	12:37
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felbutss	ill take down some notes and try it when i leave my GF's house	12:38
Stskeeps	felbutss: basically you need to grab the flasher and firmware image, try flashing there	12:38
felbutss	i have. same issue as windows	12:39
Stskeeps	hmm	12:39
Stskeeps	does 'dmesg' say anything about N900 or Nokia?	12:39
felbutss	is there another command i can use. like a cold flash	12:39
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Stskeeps	(it's a command)	12:39
Stskeeps	felbutss: you can only do that with a serial line i think :/	12:39
felbutss	lol dam	12:40
Stskeeps	felbutss: at this point i would ask nokia care if they some way can charge your n900 battery	12:40
srikumar_hyd	i just installed maemo SDK5 on my ubuntu and set FREMANTLE_ARMEL target....can anyone tell where can i find the kernel image file in FREMANTLE_ARMEL target?	12:40
felbutss	good point	12:40
Stskeeps	felbutss: that's something i would think they could do	12:40
felbutss	lol hopfully they can	12:41
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felbutss	the poeple at NCS were useless	12:41
Stskeeps	the 5800 uses it i think	12:41
Stskeeps	and 5230	12:41
felbutss	hhmmmmmm really????? might do some research i think	12:42
Stskeeps	:nod:	12:42
Stskeeps	BP-5J battery	12:45
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felbutss	calling my friends now for a swap of baterys	12:47
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Stskeeps	felbutss: i've had a N800 doing a similar stunt for what it's worth	12:49
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maexmo	srikumar_hyd: why u chose armel, u have an arm proc?	12:53
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srikumar_hyd	no.....its through scratchbox only	12:54
srikumar_hyd	maexmo: i checked for X86 also....but not found	12:54
Stskeeps	srikumar_hyd: there's no kernel installed in scratchbox	12:54
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srikumar_hyd	so, how does a rootstrap would get kernel to build it for target device?	12:56
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vesa	uhh, what version of glsl does the n900 support? 1.2?	13:12
timeless_mbp	help	13:13
timeless_mbp	can someone from .uk help me call a number in .uk?	13:13
zaheerm	timeless_mbp, i can in 15 mins..	13:13
zaheerm	am on a conf call	13:13
timeless_mbp	vesa: Is that a trick question/	13:14
* timeless_mbp thinks the answer is 2		13:14
vesa	opengl es 2.0, but within there's the shader language glsl. i'm just getting to grips with opengl programming and am having a bit of trouble with emulation vs device	13:16
vesa	afaik opengl es 2.0 requires 1.0 glsl but can support newer version too	13:17
timeless_mbp	ah	13:17
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timeless_mbp	having not heard any mention of a magic number	13:18
timeless_mbp	my assumption would be 1 :)	13:18
vesa	heh	13:18
tbf	vesa: if you just start you might want to try http://www.ogre3d.org/	13:18
timeless_mbp	i'd assume based on the other announcements i can find that we'd advertise a higher number if we supported it	13:19
timeless_mbp	or a higher opengl number	13:19
timeless_mbp	sorry :)	13:19
tbf	vesa: no idea what it's worth (almost clueless about opengl)	13:19
timeless_mbp	i haven't touched opengl since hrm... roughly 1995 ?	13:19
timeless_mbp	call it 15 years ago :)	13:19
vesa	tbf: i'm aware of the project, used ogre on desktop waaaay back. but we've got a scripting language with bindings for opengl so it's all simple stuff + shaders atm while i'm learning the ropes	13:19
tbf	vesa: but that stuff shall be backend independent, so you could run plain OpenGL on desktop, and use their new OGLES 2.0 backend for N900	13:20
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tbf	timeless_mbp: i am just astonish about all the GFX in modern games and demos...	13:20
tbf	timeless_mbp: ...and have to admit, that 3D GFX is one of the few programming fields where i am entirely clueless	13:21
vesa	last time i looked at opengl was when shaders were in assembler... es 2.0 is really clean and simple compared to that =)	13:22
timeless_mbp	tbf: oddly, i'm mostly underwhelmed :)	13:22
timeless_mbp	~ when i was a little boy ~	13:23
timeless_mbp	i saw really cool demos	13:23
timeless_mbp	(demoscene)	13:23
tbf	timeless_mbp: 2nd reality and such?	13:23
timeless_mbp	~ but now i say.. live and let die ~	13:23
timeless_mbp	tbf: sounds about right	13:23
tbf	timeless_mbp: was quite some fun to figure out their gfx :-D	13:23
tbf	"now how do i do scaling real time rotation on this stupid 386SX?"	13:24
mikhas	2nd reality runs in dosbox	13:24
mikhas	which means ... you could demo it on the n900!	13:24
tbf	timeless_mbp: the tricks learned back then still help me today	13:24
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SpeedEvil	tbf: Kids today.	13:25
SpeedEvil	tbf: Ask them how many cycles a line of code will take, and they look at you blankly.	13:25
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: otoh ARM makes that kinda hard anyway	13:26
timeless_mbp	some things are async or something	13:26
timeless_mbp	my impression is that things don't have to arrive at a well defined point	13:27
timeless_mbp	(arm really confuses me)	13:27
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: yes - however it's possible to get a closely defined limit.	13:27
timeless_mbp	but yeah, for the basic instructions, kids make me sad	13:27
* timeless_mbp nods		13:27
timeless_mbp	i'd settle for Order of Magnitude statements about lines :)	13:27
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RST38h	Ok, back. So, what's cooking?	13:29
wazd	RST38h: HD2 has 1GHz cpu, why n900 has only 600 btw? :D	13:31
VDVsx	wazd, because we don't want a toaster in our pockets :P	13:33
* VDVsx hides		13:33
wazd	VDVsx: seriously, someone asked this at the meetup	13:34
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RST38h	wazd: Different manufacturing technology probably. Most stuff on chip in OMAP3. Power consumption.	13:34
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wazd	VDVsx: My first thought was to evac thru the glass :D	13:34
VDVsx	lol	13:34
wazd	RST38h: Don't take it so serious :D	13:34
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Khertan	Hi ..	13:34
VDVsx	600 is more than enough IMO	13:35
RST38h	wazd: Well, if you want to give someone a serious answer... =)	13:35
Khertan	Does extras-devel is dead ?	13:35
RST38h	Having said that, those 600 or 1000 do not do you much good as long as your SDRAM is 133	13:35
wazd	RST38h: Now I have a bag, t-shirt and 3 stickers with lame maemo logo and cool penguins btw :)	13:35
RST38h	wazd <=== Other people got N900s, and all he has got is a lame t-shirt ! 8)	13:36
wazd	How can I enable extras on that bag? :D	13:36
RST38h	(actually, we both know the guy who won N900 at yesterday meetup)	13:36
wazd	RST38h: yeah, bastard :)	13:37
tarelerulz	I have been reading up on webos and android . How does meamo compare to those ?	13:37
RST38h	yes, how does it compare?	13:37
wazd	tarelerulz: way ahead	13:37
tarelerulz	Ward , in what way is it ahead ?	13:38
VDVsx	wazd, who's was there speaking ? someone known ? :)	13:38
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Khertan	did i forgot somethings ? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-2	13:39
range	tarelerulz: By having a usable and open Linux system on the machine?	13:40
wazd	VDVsx: no, some lame PR guy	13:40
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wazd	VDVsx: as I predicted :D	13:40
lardman	morning	13:40
wazd	lardman: heya	13:40
lardman	kalikianatoli: hildon mime works wonders, but doesn't handle vcards	13:40
lardman	hi wazd	13:40
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crashanddie	lmao	13:41
crashanddie	guys, remember this morning I talked about my order at play.com that went south?	13:41
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crashanddie	I called my bank, had the payment cancelled, called play.com again to tell them it had been canceled, they put me through to a manager and what not	13:41
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kalikianatoli	lardman, how do you use/ pass those? aren't vcards just files?	13:42
crashanddie	I received the email confirming my order had been canceled	13:42
crashanddie	I just received another email, confirming my order had been posted	13:42
tarelerulz	Well, I have heard of maemo and read about it on wiki ,but that don't tell you its current state . That all looks good on papper ,but it would be good to know from real users	13:42
lardman	kalikianatoli: as a URI	13:42
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lardman	kalikianatoli: so yeah, if it were saved as a file it may well work	13:42
lardman	I need to do that for .install files, so may as well do the same for the vcards too	13:43
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kalikianatoli	what a pity	13:43
tarelerulz	Doe it have any thing like multi-touch ?	13:43
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javispedro	morning	13:45
Khertan	hum .... still no way to debug .desktop file on maemo 5 ?	13:45
Stskeeps	morning javispedro	13:45
Khertan	tarelerulz: google is your friend	13:45
javispedro	did you survive a long night full of trolls?	13:46
kalikianatoli	lardman, btw do you know a good way to do "open xy with foobar"? ie. if you know the app and the file already	13:46
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kalikianatoli	osso rpc doesn't seem to be good enough	13:46
Khertan	kalikianatoli: really ?	13:46
Khertan	seems working fine for pygtkeditor	13:47
kalikianatoli	Khertan, It is possible that my code is flawed. If it works for you, I'd love to see how you use it :-)	13:47
lardman	derf: what's your TMO username?	13:47
tarelerulz	I am not trying to make anyone made . I am really just wondering . It sounded cool ,but a lot of Open source stuff does then you try it and its not as good as it sounded on paper. I might get it is has enough wanted features. Not fan boy of anything	13:47
lardman	kalikianatoli: no sorry	13:47
lardman	kalikianatoli: I've been using dbus calls so far	13:47
lardman	kalikianatoli: but they are specific to the apps in question	13:48
Stskeeps	tarelerulz: yeah, but most open source stuff isn't backed by a commercial company	13:48
kalikianatoli	lardman, boo for hardcoding apps :-)	13:48
Stskeeps	tarelerulz: nokia have had many professionals working on this platform, and i love this phone.	13:48
Khertan	kalikianatoli: you can look in the source of pygtkeditor in pygtkeditor.py at http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/p/pygtkeditor/pygtkeditor_3.0.0-2.tar.gz	13:48
kalikianatoli	Khertan, thanks	13:48
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lardman	kalikianatoli: well I've moved to hildonmime now for everything bar vcards, and will write those to file to use mime too	13:49
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kalikianatoli	lardman, okay, we're still friends then :D	13:50
kalikianatoli	Khertan, and good to see you were able to use the stock mapping	13:51
Khertan	ah yes :)	13:52
Khertan	but ... the application didn't launch from the menu ... surely a incorrect .desktop file	13:52
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kalikianatoli	Khertan, I see a mime callback there. what I need is the opposite side	13:53
kalikianatoli	ie. open a file with app foobar	13:53
Khertan	arf ... no ... it s an error in the launch script	13:53
Khertan	kalikianatoli: ah ... ok ... sorry i didn't understand that	13:53
Khertan	personnally i open some script from pygtkeditor directly by calling a subcommand : '/usr/bin/osso-xterm myfiletolaunch.py'	13:54
kalikianatoli	the problem is that almost no app supports command line calling	13:54
Khertan	yep ...	13:54
kalikianatoli	with arguments that is	13:54
Khertan	and it s clearly depends on application if they read args / dbus / osso.rpc	13:55
kalikianatoli	so basically I need to use osso where I would've run a file	13:55
Khertan	hum ... and no open command too	13:55
Khertan	it ll we too easy :)	13:56
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kalikianatoli	I guess I'll have to lookup the desktop files manually	13:56
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Khertan	kalikianatoli: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/pymaemo/wwwold/documentation/python_osso_examples/code/mime/osso_test_mime_open.py	13:57
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Khertan	does this works ?	13:58
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kalikianatoli	Khertan, yeah, opening like that seems to be fine. what I'm missing is the case where I know the app name	13:59
kalikianatoli	ie. the user chose it from a preference	13:59
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javispedro	ah, with the latest xkcd I guess skifree is going to make a comeback	13:59
kalikianatoli	real example: the user doesn't want the default text editor	14:00
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lardman	so anyone with amazon web services experience fancy doing some coding?	14:01
lardman	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=391154	14:01
lardman	in C	14:01
lardman	:p	14:01
Khertan	kalikianatoli: hum ... no documentation for python-osso ;)	14:01
Khertan	lol	14:01
lardman	kalikianatoli: cool mbarcode 0.0.4 just cleared the compilation bar, so now hildon mimified :)	14:01
Khertan	hildon momified ?	14:02
Khertan	:)	14:02
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SpeedEvil	lardman: have you thought about contacting asda et al, and asking for a database?	14:02
lardman	hildonmime-ified	14:02
lardman	sorry ;)	14:02
lardman	SpeedEvil: not yet, not at that level of workingness	14:02
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Khertan	kalikianatoli: gnomevfs.mime_set_default_application(sys.argv[1]) could do the trick ?	14:03
lardman	but I'm more than happy to add that sort of functionality, or to produce dbus messages to allow another app to use the decoding, etc	14:03
SpeedEvil	lardman: 'I would like to create an application to help shoppers at asda more easily plan food use, and scanning tins thrown away to add to an asda order' ... forex	14:03
lardman	absolutely	14:03
lardman	but I don't really have the time to do the work atm	14:04
SpeedEvil	:)	14:04
achipa	lardman: in my other life I use AWS quite a bit, what do you need ?	14:04
kalikianatoli	Khertan, that would be global unfortunately. :-)	14:04
SpeedEvil	I need to finish my hacks on that topic.	14:04
lardman	achipa: a clue mainly	14:04
achipa	lardman: for... ? :)	14:04
lardman	achipa: C code to read AWS to obtain information about an EAN	14:04
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lardman	achipa: Ideally returning description, thumbnail url, price, and reviews, etc	14:05
achipa	lardman: I see. Stand by.	14:06
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* lardman prepares a flashbang		14:06
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lardman	too much MW2 I think...	14:07
crashanddie	lardman: so you got it?	14:07
crashanddie	err	14:08
kalikianatoli	Khertan, I'll try sending mime_open via dbus later today, maybe that does the trick	14:08
crashanddie	lardman: so you finished it?	14:08
crashanddie	lardman: did you prestige yet?	14:08
lardman	crashanddie: nah, only played it for a couple of disjointed hours	14:08
Khertan	kalikianatoli: osso_rpc_run_with_defaults <<< take the applications as parameters	14:08
Khertan	kalikianatoli: so it should do the trick	14:08
lardman	achipa: if it helps, librest is available	14:08
crashanddie	lardman: I've finished AC2, I'm around 98% or something... Stupid feathers I have to collect	14:08
kalikianatoli	Khertan, that's what I tried. and it says "osso_notes has no method with signature s" :-/	14:09
lardman	crashanddie: on PC though	14:09
crashanddie	lardman: I know	14:09
lardman	crashanddie: am at the barrio in South America now	14:09
Khertan	kalikianatoli: ouchg	14:09
crashanddie	lardman: that's a bitch	14:09
Khertan	.... going to eat ... see you later	14:09
crashanddie	lardman: I died countless times there	14:09
crashanddie	Khertan: bon app!	14:09
lardman	me too!	14:09
crashanddie	lardman: veteran?	14:09
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lardman	am too much of a perfectionist, want to kill every last one of them	14:09
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crashanddie	lardman: at least it's not like MW1, where they kept spawning continuously	14:10
lardman	no, not playing on the hardest level, can't remember what it;s called	14:10
lardman	yeah was wondering if they do keep respawning or not	14:10
crashanddie	don't think they do	14:10
lardman	but playing for 20min at a time is fard	14:10
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achipa	lardman: got an example EAN at hand ?	14:11
crashanddie	lardman: though, it's amazing how "random" the AI is... They really did a good job	14:11
crashanddie	achipa: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/EAN-13-5901234123457.svg	14:11
lardman	achipa: 5410329305840	14:12
crashanddie	achipa: http://www.dlsoft.com/images/ean0.png	14:12
SpeedEvil	lardman: http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/message.jspa?messageID=41572 second last post?	14:12
lardman	tho actually that one probably won't appear on amazon	14:12
lardman	won't work in the UK?	14:12
lardman	yeah, well perhaps an ASIN search, and I can scrape the ASIN from somewhere?	14:13
lardman	achipa: that's just a load of garbage to me, no clue what it's supposed to mean	14:14
lardman	the example that is	14:14
SpeedEvil	lardman: the second last post said it worked	14:14
lardman	tho I have looked at the docs, but they assume you know about REST, which I don't really	14:14
lardman	yeah	14:14
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lardman	I'll do some work on it one day	14:15
lardman	achipa: thanks for looking though :)	14:18
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SpeedEvil	Anyone with payment taken from nokia.co.uk got another charge on their card? Immedaitely after the ~320, I have a 2 quid charge - which I don't understand.	14:25
frals	someone needed coffee money ;)	14:27
lardman	SpeedEvil: delivery cosr?	14:27
lardman	cost	14:27
SpeedEvil	lardman: Shouldn't be - order includes delivery	14:27
Lupu	How much is a quid?	14:27
SpeedEvil	bank says no details yet - maybe more in a couple of days.	14:27
SpeedEvil	$1.70 US ATM I think	14:27
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lardman	Lupu: more than a quid for a coffe nowadays!	14:29
lardman	2 is probably about right ;)	14:29
achipa	lardman: grr, having difficulties with signing th requests	14:32
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achipa	lardman: and the 'helper' page asks for secret keys in a plain http POST. Duh.	14:33
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lardman	achipa: yeah, I was wondering about which keys to send, etc	14:33
lardman	will have to just sit down and do some testing I think	14:33
achipa	first make it work it with a plain get request	14:34
achipa	so you know your parameters are right	14:34
lardman	should I use e.g. librest	14:34
lardman	as it can handle some of the returned info parsing?	14:34
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lardman	atm I do a plain request for a normal web page, then parse it using strstr, which is not very good	14:35
lardman	achipa: how's Shepherd coming along?	14:35
achipa	yes, when you got the basic stuff (=amazon parameters) already working you can move on to librest	14:35
lardman	ok	14:35
achipa	lardman: http://docs.amazonwebservices.com/AWSECommerceService/latest/DG/	14:35
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achipa	api->operations->lookup	14:36
achipa	in case you have not seen it	14:36
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lardman	yes found it a while back, then lost it	14:36
lardman	they don't make their docs very easy to understand	14:36
lardman	descriptions of services are rather opaque	14:36
achipa	lardman: coming along, I think I'll have some code in extras-devel this week, will be enough for some basic plugins	14:37
achipa	what's killing me is the hybrid Qt+GTK stuff required for the connection apis	14:38
achipa	you start reading the 'qt dev guide for maemo 5' and then halway through you realize there is no Qt anymore, just GObjects :)	14:38
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achipa	but don't let that bother you, the dbus stuff is I think OK...	14:39
zaheerm	gtk != gobject	14:40
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adeus	well after a while of gtk programming you start to see G_OBJECT and gtk_ in your sleep :)	14:43
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lardman	I'm looking forward to Qt, not the C++ness mind you, but would prefer to just move in one go rather than in bits	14:45
lardman	achipa: great, am looking forward to some location awareness apps :)	14:46
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achipa	zaheerm: yes, yes, I realize, but it doesn't make it any easier	14:46
kynde	What are these "Couldn't access keyring" failures I now get in scratchbox when doing apt-get update? Anyone seen those?	14:47
zaheerm	achipa, they should really use gobject-introspection to make qt native shims on top of the gobject apis	14:48
achipa	zaheerm: it's just that I need gobject-mongery in my Qt code as much as a fish needs a bicycle :)	14:48
zaheerm	"real" c++ programmers would say the same about qt.... ;)	14:48
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mece	hello	14:49
achipa	zaheerm: right, but considering their track record they'll just drop it and use a native Qt lib, hello rewrites :)	14:49
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maexmo	in maemo5 i have activated the red pill and [x] assume net connection in settings, so he should try to access internet. resolv.conf is same as the ubuntu host running on virtualbox.	14:50
maexmo	if i do ifconfig at the scratchbox or in [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] i get same informations as in the standard host ifconfig. somebody said if i am in that sbox its as if i were on maemo, but doesn't seems so.	14:50
lardman	kynde: yeah ignore that	14:50
kynde	lardman: ack.	14:51
maexmo	so i do not have internet connect in maemo, but in the ubuntu hostsystem.	14:53
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adeus	are you behing a proxy?	14:55
adeus	*behind	14:55
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maexmo	no	14:55
adeus	[sbox-armel: ~] > cat /etc/resolv.conf	14:56
adeus	nameserver 127.0.0.1	14:56
adeus	this is all I have there	14:56
maexmo	localhost? hmm	14:56
maexmo	me too	14:57
Khertan	crashanddie: merci :)	14:57
tigert	copy hosts resolvconf into scratchbox	14:57
mece1	adeus: I copied my resolv from /etc to /scratchbox/targets/<something>/etc	14:57
mece1	Is there someone here with an N900 in hand?	14:58
adeus	I haven't done any copying	14:59
adeus	and works	14:59
maexmo	copied resolv.conf to /scratchbox/etc and /scratchbox/users/maemo/FREMANTLE_X86/etc .. but those are same	14:59
maexmo	adeus how can u get into x-terminal of maemo. it should be that sbox-armel] but if i do ifconfig there i get same data than ifconfig at ubuntu hostsystem	15:00
maexmo	but not the maemo information (ppp0 , etc missing)	15:01
lardman	just to remind me, a dbus message can't start an app can it?	15:01
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achipa	zaheerm: and there ARE plenty of pure GTK examples in the Qt guide :)	15:01
maexmo	hm	15:01
achipa	http://pastebin.com/m23580ee3	15:01
maexmo	it works now .. after copying same resolv.conf for fifth time and a reload.. strange	15:02
maexmo	thanks for stabbing me to copy that resolv.conf again ;)	15:02
mece1	No-one with an N900.. oh well. The reason I ask is that playing a normal mp3 used a massive 35% cpu, and I was wondering if that was the case on other devices or is there some bug on the one I used.	15:03
lardman	I have one	15:04
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Khertan	achipa: there is a reason ... as qt is for the beginner ... gtk for the real programmer ... examples show the best pratices :)	15:04
lardman	what do you want done?	15:04
achipa	:D	15:04
mece1	lardman: could you check the cpu usage of pulseuadio when playing music?	15:04
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kalikianatoli	maexmo, put a real nameserver in there	15:05
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maexmo	i have real ns there	15:05
kalikianatoli	on localhost?	15:05
maexmo	on both i got external nameservers	15:05
mece1	kalikianatoli: He got it to work already ;)	15:06
lardman	mece1: between them, mafw-dbus-* and pulseaudio use ~20-25% CPU	15:06
lardman	but I don;t know what the current speed is	15:06
mece1	ok..	15:06
maexmo	kalikianatoli: ah yea sorry the problem is gone already ;)	15:06
kalikianatoli	maexmo, ah, ignore me then :)	15:06
mece1	lardman: Ok, thanks. It seems like a lot to me. Perhaps it isn't. version 42.11 ?	15:07
lardman	yeah	15:07
lardman	but I don;t know what cpufreq is set at	15:07
lardman	let me look	15:07
mece1	oh righty.	15:07
mece1	I didn't know it varied.	15:07
Disconnect	when running a qt mobile app on a desktop (in this case, osx cocoa qt4.6) how do you get into settings? messing with the mobile-demo weather app (for maemo)	15:08
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N900: ping	15:09
lardman	hmm is at 600MHz anyway	15:09
mece1	k.	15:09
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lardman	does seem quite high	15:11
serenity	hi	15:11
lardman	will try with mplayer	15:11
serenity	can i redirect telephoning to the fm transmitter?	15:11
lardman	probably with a little work	15:11
mece1	lardman: does mplayer use pulse or gstreamer?	15:12
lardman	pulse directly I assume	15:12
mece1	should be the same then I guess.	15:12
lardman	no, the media player uses gst	15:12
mece1	o	15:12
mece1	ok	15:12
serenity	i want to plug the mic onto my shirt und hear via car-stereo	15:12
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lardman	serenity: well I imagine it would be possible to achieve	15:13
serenity	but only a hack and no official way	15:14
lardman	yes	15:14
lardman	and I don't even know how to do the hack	15:14
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serenity	anyone an idea on how to achive this?	15:16
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mece1	lardman: how did mplayer do? I guess in general pluseaudio is considered pretty cpu heavy, so perhaps it's not that strange with +25%	15:17
lardman	well it would be interesting to look at how the phone app handles changing its output source - it can do BT, speakers and headphones for example	15:17
lardman	mece1: need to register on my network, getting there	15:17
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SpeedEvil	25% is insane.	15:17
SpeedEvil	(for mp3)	15:17
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mece1	SpeedEvil: I agree. But what is the reason?	15:18
SpeedEvil	In that with the right decoder - libmad? I forget - the OpenMoko GTA01 could do mp3 at 15% or so CPU	15:18
SpeedEvil	which was 15% of 200MHz	15:18
SpeedEvil	mece1: Please wait till I obtain my n900.	15:19
range	On speakers or also with headphones? Nokia seems to "tame" the speakers via an EQ done with pulseaudio (pupnik has more to rant about that ...)	15:19
lardman	well pulse takes half, mafw takes the other half	15:19
SpeedEvil	range: headphones.	15:19
mece1	range: I tested it with speakers. I don't have the device here, so I can't try with headphones.	15:20
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mece1	range: I got avg 24% pulse and 14% that other thing with the widget and 20% + 12% with the media player.	15:20
mece1	that other thing being mafw	15:21
range	I have no N900 (yet), so just relaying information (I thought there was a bug for that ...)	15:21
mece1	Ive gotta go get the kids, I'll read the logs later. Thanks for the info.	15:22
lardman	hmm, mplayer download not looking too fast here	15:22
mece1	ta	15:22
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lardman	fyi, mplayer manages about 30% + ~10% for pulse at the same time	15:26
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lardman	which is curious really	15:28
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linfl683	Hi, if I have a textview and a textbuffer with gtk..can I make auto line break when the text comes out of the widget?	15:42
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jeremiah	linfl683: That seems like it should be trivially easy, unforuntately I don't know how to do that - there are some GTK hackers here though so . . .	15:47
Stskeeps	jeremiah: how much effort would there be in getting a signed repo on repository.maemo.org for community SSU?	15:47
Stskeeps	doesn't have to have builder and so on attached, just that you or someone would upload deb+source packages to it	15:49
jeremiah	Stskeeps: Should be trivially easy	15:50
jeremiah	All we need is a gpg key I believe	15:51
Stskeeps	something you could add on your TODO?	15:51
jeremiah	Maybe a cert.	15:51
jeremiah	Sure, I think so, I will certainly go put it on my sprint list any way. . .	15:51
wjt	linfl683: gtk_text_view_set_wrap_mode() ?	15:53
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jeremiah	Stskeeps: What does SSU stand for in this context?	15:57
Stskeeps	jeremiah: seamless software update :P	15:57
jeremiah	heh	15:57
jeremiah	seamless indeed.	15:57
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lcuk	SSU should be "Stskeeps Software Update"	16:00
lardman	~ssu	16:00
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU	16:00
lardman	come on infobot	16:00
jeremiah	SSU == Submit to Stskeeps' Universe	16:00
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lardman	well, we will also have ssu's for the N900 I trust	16:00
linfl683	wjt: Does it work?	16:01
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wjt	linfl683: it should do…	16:04
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linfl683	wjt: Thank you, it works!	16:08
qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps: pong	16:10
lardman	hmm, VSync ISR is not necessary, that's good	16:11
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N900: nm - it was about package to add a repo and a package domain but i think i found a page that explains it (community SSU)	16:11
wjt	linfl683: hooray!	16:12
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RurouniJones_	Warning to anyone who pre-ordered the N900 on the Nokia UK site. My sodding credit card was declined because it tripped an anti-fraud system because the money was goign overseas	16:14
RurouniJones_	Others might like to contact their companies and tell them not to cancel the order since any discount codes you used will become null and void on the re-order	16:15
Stskeeps	RurouniJones_: yeah.. happened to some	16:15
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w00t_	quite a lot, unfortunately	16:15
RurouniJones_	You woulda thought the accounts used by a company like Nokia would be whitelisted fer gods sake	16:15
w00t_	RurouniJones_: you are eligable to get 15% put back on, though	16:16
RurouniJones_	going through the motions now, still a loss over the discounts I got earlier	16:16
RurouniJones_	Thats life...still annoying though	16:16
w00t_	better than nothing tho	16:16
RurouniJones_	Stupid CC company	16:16
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mece	lardman: did you get mplayer installed?	16:18
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lardman	yeah	16:19
lardman	~30% for mplayer + ~10% for pulse	16:19
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SpeedEvil	what does wav do	16:21
lardman	dunno, don't have any handy I'm afraid	16:21
lardman	is the LCD on the omap2420 dev boards mounted in portrait direction?	16:22
wazd	oook, my phone is dead at last :) Time to buy new one :D	16:22
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mece	SpeedEvil: Did openmoko use pulseaudio when you got 15%?	16:23
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lardman	what's the blizzard's native display format? Anyone remember?	16:25
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lardman	YV12?	16:25
lardman	or was it UYVY?	16:25
SpeedEvil	mece: no	16:25
lardman	well not native, but the quick one	16:25
SpeedEvil	mece: that was straight	16:25
lardman	lcuk: ping	16:25
lcuk	uyvy afiak	16:25
lcuk	hey	16:25
lardman	cool, thanks	16:26
lcuk	cos xv has to convert from its planar format to the interleaved mess	16:26
lcuk	and its the reason why i chose xv over direct fb banging	16:26
lardman	hmm, ok I'll try defining UYVY and we'll see where we get to	16:26
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lardman	typical, never have the kernel source when I need it	16:28
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wazd	mmm, nokia 1200, shiny	16:33
jeremiah	eh?	16:33
jeremiah	Link plz	16:33
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wazd	http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_1200-1976.php	16:35
\|R	insane specs!	16:35
jeremiah	shiny indeed	16:35
\|R	it's even thiner than the N900! :P	16:35
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tigert	Nokia 2110 will kick ass	16:35
tigert	oops I said too much	16:36
jeremiah	The comments on that page are teh awesum	16:36
jeremiah	"I need this product"	16:36
bilboed-pi	flashlight ?	16:36
toggles_w	can someone tell me about the 3x15% rebates in the UK? Still available?	16:36
jeremiah	my lectures in flash light in days of load shedind.	16:37
crashanddie	that phone owns	16:37
crashanddie	390 hours standby time	16:37
crashanddie	over 10 days	16:37
crashanddie	say you use it mildly, you get 5 days uptime	16:37
crashanddie	that still kicks the shit out of the n900	16:37
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tigert	those phones had the battery for just ... the phone :)	16:37
crashanddie	It's time the battery manufacturers beef up their game	16:37
tigert	crashanddie: N900 goes several days standby	16:38
crashanddie	everything's going up fast and we get better and more components chucked into our devices	16:38
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crashanddie	but batteries still suck	16:38
crashanddie	tigert: note the "mild usage"	16:38
crashanddie	tigert: when you have 3g and wifi switching regularly, you don't get "several days"	16:39
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crashanddie	tigert: my best at the moment is two days	16:39
tigert	i had mine be on just 3g network (phone only) in my pocket for 24 hours, almost full battery	16:39
tigert	define mild ;)	16:39
tigert	yea, i know	16:39
setanta	lardman, I asked here and currently no one is maintaining the battlegwelled package	16:39
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setanta	(and sorry for the delay ><)	16:39
bleader	crashanddie: imagine that this is the best you can do in standby with a lot of samsung phones :p	16:39
bleader	(2 days)	16:39
tigert	this was no ip networking, just "a phone" usecase	16:40
lardman	setanta: np, thanks, I'll eventually get round to updating the package then unless someone (like qwerty12_N900) fancies doing it ;)	16:40
crashanddie	bleader: I had a d500 or something like that, could get 3 or 4 days out of it no problem	16:40
RurouniJones_	toggles_w: No	16:40
bleader	my f700 is one day with some usage, 2 days idle	16:40
crashanddie	bleader: but again, that was an older devices, few years back now	16:40
toggles_w	RurouniJones_: thanks	16:40
bleader	I've read somewhere that it's possible to get the n97 battery in n900	16:41
tigert	crashanddie: those had lots less of cpu intensive crap	16:41
tigert	think of the N810	16:41
crashanddie	tigert: I realise that	16:41
tigert	it goes a week standby	16:41
tigert	but yea	16:41
crashanddie	tigert: but still, I'm not oblivious to the fact the devices require a lot more power	16:42
tigert	i see your point too	16:42
crashanddie	and that being said, the N900 has a smaller battery than the n810	16:42
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tigert	yep	16:42
* tigert would trade a thicker device for beefier battery		16:42
maexmo	it can be smaller if it uses newer battery technology	16:42
crashanddie	maexmo: not "size" wise	16:43
crashanddie	maexmo: n810 battery was 1500mAh or something, N900 is 1200	16:43
lcuk	tigert, :D backpack mounted battery, uptime measured in months? :D	16:43
tigert	yeah	16:43
tigert	or duct taped second battery :)	16:44
bleader	http://www.nokiausers.net/Reviews/Mugen-Power-Premium-Quality-Batteries.html haven't read everything :)	16:44
bleader	but may be interesting	16:44
tigert	maybe one could mold a nice bumpy custom cover to the back	16:44
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lcuk	if you are doing that, combine it with keesj's push N button and get extra keys out of it	16:44
tigert	that housed a second battery	16:44
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crashanddie	just use a truck or car battery	16:45
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lcuk	crashanddie, thats the backpack option	16:45
crashanddie	not extremely portable, but 12V at 90amps will keep you going for sometime	16:45
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maexmo	hahah .. you could sell a backpack with included 12v loading station for heavy n900 users.. its a niche? :D	16:46
crown	hi @all i just tryed to update the sdk with the .py install wizard from the nokia homepage. the installation crashed with the following error http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/host/dist/unbuntu-intreped/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz Error 404 not found	16:47
crown	the link comes out from the nokia page script	16:47
crashanddie	crown: intrepid instead of intreped?	16:48
tekojo	crown was that from the Forum Nokia page?	16:48
crown	sry my fault i cant copy the link couse vmware tools wont work right so its intrepid in the link	16:48
crown	yes teh nokia page	16:49
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crashanddie	crown: seems like you have an outdated script mate	16:49
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crown	i tryed booth possible install scripts the wizard and the .sh	16:49
crown	where could i get a proper new one i was take it from noka page directly	16:50
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crashanddie	crown: you want the scratchbox installer?	16:51
crashanddie	or SDK?	16:51
crown	sure this script is from the nokia page too right?	16:51
_marcell_	crown: there is a gui install script here: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/ but it might be the same as the one from FN	16:51
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crown	marcell: i guess the scripts from the guide linking to the nokia page too yes	16:53
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tigert	hm	16:53
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tigert	interesting that mugen battery thing	16:53
crashanddie	crown: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	16:53
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tigert	if it really has as much juice as advertised	16:54
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_marcell_	crown: hmm, I will make sure that this gets fixed fist thing in the morning tomorrow. Most of the people already left the office now.	16:54
crashanddie	_marcell_: it's 4PM and people have already left?	16:54
* Stskeeps ponders idly if the UK thread on t.m.o is going to explode over the mic issues		16:54
crown	_marcell_: thank you thats nice	16:54
ccooke	mic issues?	16:54
* ccooke goes to check		16:54
javispedro	yesterdays dealbreaker was the browser smoothness	16:55
javispedro	what's today's dealbreaker going to be?	16:55
crown	i just love to have a look at the n900 interface before i finally can buy it smile	16:55
Stskeeps	javispedro: mic issues on first batch gone to UK it seems	16:55
Stskeeps	ie, not working	16:55
javispedro	oh	16:55
Stskeeps	:P	16:55
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javispedro	well that would be a real dealbreaker actually :P	16:55
tigert	heh	16:56
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tigert	" i love my new phone, i just cannot speak"	16:56
Stskeeps	i could probably get by with the headset	16:56
crashanddie	That's a pretty big fail on Nokia's part	16:56
qwerty12_N900	Indeed	16:56
mece	speaking is overrated ;)	16:57
ccooke	it's a bit of a problem for a phone. I hope they can do a quick job of replacing the devices	16:57
adeus	and/or by the subcontractor who is putting them together	16:57
crashanddie	no sc involved	16:57
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\|R	What is the difference between the Global firmware and the USA firmware ?	17:00
serenity	wlan sending power and fw frequency?	17:01
lardman	one lacks "u" and has too many zeds	17:01
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* ccooke notes that the pipe character is a bad one for use in nicks on a channel frequented by people with n900s :-)		17:02
ccooke	or n810s for that matter	17:02
RST38h	tigert: BTW, any hope of a Fremantle icon theme that looks less like S60? =)	17:02
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\|R	ccooke: oh well ;)	17:03
\|R	serenity: so while travelling you can flash to the frequencies of your choice? :P	17:03
\|R	serenity: "Global" sounds weird then... where is it :)	17:03
serenity	us-Version includes a backdoor for nsa ;)	17:03
ccooke	\|R: and with it as the first character of your nick, it wouldn't even be possible to use tab completion. :-)	17:04
\|R	ccooke: at least you read it right, most people think it's IR :P	17:04
\|R	It's either the Real symbol or Pipe-r ... your choice ;)	17:05
tigert	RST38h: tango set might be a good starting point	17:05
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* \|R is getting realllly impatient with the MobileCityOnline dates being pushed back every week...		17:05
tigert	maybe one could use icon-naming utils to do a wrapper so one can use any gtk icon themes?	17:06
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tigert	dinnertime &	17:06
ccooke	\|R: It might be taken to mean 'real or nothing', also...	17:06
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: Maybe you can prod wazd to work on Marina, instead (it's already looking better than the shipped themes in some respects) although I wouldn't blame him if he said no...	17:06
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\|R	ccooke: haha how so? :)	17:07
ccooke	\|R: Well, \| is an OR symbol in many things. In pattern matching, "\|<something>" means <the empty pattern> or <something>	17:08
\|R	yes ok, but because of the space before the nick in most IRC client you mean? :)	17:08
\|R	(well most text ones at least ;)	17:08
ccooke	:-)	17:08
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wazd	2330 classic, hmmm	17:10
\|R	ccooke: So i suppose you're not typing on the N900? or that your xterm is properly configured? :P	17:10
qwerty12_N900	wazd: Treat yourself: Go for the 3310; its model number > 2330	17:10
wazd	qwerty12_N900: oh, that's a good idea :D	17:11
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zash	3310 ftw!	17:11
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ccooke	Right now, I'm at work. Not on an n900. But you can get the pipe symbol on any of the devices: It's just harder	17:11
qwerty12_N900	DCT4 == awesomeness	17:11
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\|R	ccooke: yeah, i know with my n810, gotta to unroll that symbol menu... though on the n900 (when/if i get it) i'll add a proper key i think :)	17:12
\|R	I so wish that with the added space they would have installed a fuller system and scraped busybox though...	17:12
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\|R	(at least core utils !:)	17:12
wazd	5000, ooooh	17:12
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cosmo	hmm.. upgraded my fremantle firmware and maybe half of packages said "installation file corrupt" when restoring backup	17:15
crashanddie	\|R: the root partition is only 256megs	17:17
wazd	phillips xenium x500...	17:18
wazd	1140 h of standby	17:19
\|R	crashanddie: yeah so i heard, another weird idea	17:19
wazd	dude...	17:19
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wazd	seriously, 1140 hours...	17:21
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cosmo	extras-dev repo fails with "no hash entry in release file"	17:24
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Stskeeps	III, escaping from the people in the house? :P	17:27
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* III going crazy		17:28
Stskeeps	hehe	17:28
III	any luck on a patch?	17:28
Stskeeps	i bet you can't go more crazy than the people on talk.maemo.org over N900 deliveries :)	17:28
Stskeeps	no, been thesis'ing mostly oday	17:28
Stskeeps	t	17:28
III	np	17:29
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kalikianatoli	I wonder how Quick Clip is supposed to work	17:33
kalikianatoli	It does nothing and shows up nowhere	17:34
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\|R	http://noknok.tv/2009/11/25/exclusive-nokia-n900-delayed-until-4th-december/	17:45
\|R	delayed n900 news of the day :P	17:45
wazd	5130 XM...	17:46
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* RST38h has seen n900 sold at the store yesterday, discounted ;)		17:46
* RST38h cackles		17:46
SpeedEvil	Woo!	17:47
RST38h	(sales probably paid for the meetup, too =))	17:47
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Arkenoi	rst38h: russian price is ridiculous	17:48
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tbf	Arkenoi: no, its just russian wages which are ridiculous	17:48
Arkenoi	tbf: 2x us price is nonsense	17:49
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tbf	Arkenoi: guess russian price is based on EUR price	17:49
wazd	Arkenoi: 600 euros	17:49
wazd	Arkenoi: sounds fine for me	17:50
RST38h	Arkenoi: Absolutely	17:50
tbf	Arkenoi: there are crazy dependencies which cause dollar prices	17:50
RST38h	Arkenoi: But I do not think it is going to be the .RU price for long	17:50
RST38h	Arkenoi: No way it will cost $980 for long	17:50
Arkenoi	if i buy one i'd better buy in the US	17:50
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RST38h	Arkenoi: And get those missing two arrow keys? =)	17:51
wazd	Recommended price for iPhone 3Gs 32Gb in Russia - 1400 USD	17:51
jpjokela	RST38h: Something wrong with C64? :)	17:52
RST38h	wazd: Yea, right. And still no 3G ;)	17:52
Arkenoi	rst38h: btw did i tell you n900 rejected my 10 years old 5v sim card? lucky me i had a copy of imsi/Ki on a newer chip	17:52
RST38h	jpjokela: ?	17:52
wazd	RST38h: we have 3G underground :D	17:52
RST38h	wazd: Not me, have not seen it	17:52
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wazd	RST38h: hmmm	17:52
jpjokela	RST38h: Probably the most known "2 cursor keys" device ever built	17:52
wazd	RST38h: that dude from nokia told that he already used it	17:53
wazd	cmon guys, throw me some advice on the new phone	17:53
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Stskeeps	wazd: SE K610i wasn't bad for tethering	17:54
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jpjokela	wazd, You can get one for cheaper: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/10/you_almost_had_me_fake_russian_iphone-2/ :D	17:54
Stskeeps	felbutss: any luck with batteries?	17:55
wazd	Stskeeps: not sure if I can buy this one now :)	17:55
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felbutss	:(. still no luck. with my bricked n900. im pritty sure it has been charging with my car charger.	17:56
felbutss	i have just realised something. when i plug it in. the pc sees the device but then it says there was an error installing drivers. it mentioned flash osx or something. does anyone have the drivers that are built into the phone so i can install them for it????? i dont think the battery is flat anymore.	17:56
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wazd	Stskeeps: it's like 3 yo now :)	17:56
Stskeeps	felbutss: nokia pc suite	17:56
Stskeeps	wazd: yes, :P	17:56
felbutss	hhmmmmmmm thats wht it said on my friends computer. my pc already has PC suite	17:57
felbutss	dam	17:57
cosmo	felbutss: at least my n900 didn't charge with car adapter + the usb power adapter for some reason	17:57
cosmo	probably the usb power adapter is faulty	17:57
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tbf	cosmo: the n900 needs 1200 mA for charging	17:58
tbf	cosmo: most chargers provide only the half, if not less	17:58
cosmo	1.2A? thats' a lot	17:58
felbutss	because i was not able to turn it on at all. now i can switch it on for a good 20 seconds on the nokia screen then it restarts again	17:58
Stskeeps	felbutss: ok, at this point i would try the linux flashing	17:59
cosmo	the same charger worked with n810, so i guess it needed less	17:59
Stskeeps	felbutss: if it stays on for 20 seconds it definately is charged	17:59
wazd	Nokia 5130 looks like a fine choice	17:59
felbutss	ok. im going to turn my pc off and boot up linux from my flash drive. do u think it will matter that im booting it off a flash drive????	17:59
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cosmo	felbutss: no	18:00
wazd	RST38h: looks like I'll be back to N-store at Tverskaya tomorrow :D	18:00
Stskeeps	felbutss: it's OK to just use one "?" :)	18:00
RST38h	wazd: Got extra $1000? =)	18:01
qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps: ¿?	18:01
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Arkenoi	rst38h: btw where do i get metromap application?	18:01
wazd	RST38h: nah, my phone is dead, have to buy new one	18:01
wazd	RST38h: and ironicaly the cheapest 5130 is there :D	18:02
RST38h	Arkenoi: metro2.ru? =)	18:02
RST38h	wazd: Ah =)	18:02
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wazd	Phillips is one big chineese trickery now	18:03
paroneayea	hm :(	18:03
Arkenoi	rst38h: "rodtwennye sajty - matrasy, porno filxmy"..	18:03
paroneayea	when making an sip call you can't enter dial tones	18:03
felbutss	brbb linux time	18:03
paroneayea	which I need to access my company's conference call	18:03
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* kalikianatoli takes a sip of tea without even touching his N900.		18:07
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AakashPatel	Lol the n900 is instock guise	18:10
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SpeedEvil	AakashPatel: there are eleven hundred different outlets offering n900.	18:11
SpeedEvil	Instock where?	18:11
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wazd	the only confusing feature is 6h of talk time	18:14
AakashPatel	SpeedEvil, on nokia site	18:14
wazd	that's kinda lame	18:14
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* AakashPatel is gonna place is preorder on amazon tonight		18:15
lardman	pH5: what use case were you thinking of btw?	18:15
AakashPatel	http://store.nokia.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdetail_10500_10101_-1_10000367	18:16
AakashPatel	For those of you who couldnt find it like me lol	18:16
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pH5	lardman: remember that cinaest app? i'd like to integrate scanning my dvd collection and looking up movies at the video store with mbarcode.	18:17
lardman	ah ok	18:18
lardman	I started work on it to scan my books	18:18
Stskeeps	morning qole	18:18
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lardman	and be able to scan in the shop and see if I had one and if not to look at reviews, save it in a wishlist, etc	18:18
qole	Stskeeps, good morning... or afternoon for you?	18:18
Stskeeps	qole: afternoon	18:19
crashanddie	qole: morning!	18:19
pH5	hm. that's basically the same that i'm trying to do for movies.	18:19
crashanddie	qole: how are you buddy?	18:19
lardman	pH5: I've been wondering if I should move my db stuff to a helper app	18:19
lardman	pH5: i.e. not in mbarcode itself	18:20
qole	crashanddie, hey!	18:20
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tarelerulz	Have any of you played song ogg and movies mkv on Maemo ?	18:20
lardman	morning qole	18:20
Stskeeps	afternoon Venomrush	18:20
Venomrush	Hey	18:20
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Venomrush	There seems to be a problem with the mic	18:21
Stskeeps	yeah, we do read t.m.o	18:21
Stskeeps	:P	18:21
Venomrush	:)	18:21
range	Really? I only write there.	18:21
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qole	it is only in XChat that I realize I haven't remapped the keyboard...	18:21
pupnik	mhm	18:21
Venomrush	Not alot of people know about the #maemo IRC	18:22
Venomrush	hence the spamming of posts on TMO	18:22
tarelerulz	I found out about today myself	18:22
julianoliver	hi, i'm still having problems grabbing the maemo SDK from the repositories, this time from a different (and much faster) connection. the error is simply "Err http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk Release.gpg"	18:22
qwerty12_N900	Rather Talk than here	18:22
Stskeeps	julianoliver: 401?	18:22
qole	I haven't gone for my morning dose of crazy yet...	18:22
julianoliver	yet i can ping it just fine..	18:22
julianoliver	Stskeeps: not this time. that's on my home connection.	18:22
julianoliver	"Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/sdk/Release.gpg Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'"	18:23
qole	what's the mic problem thread?	18:23
julianoliver	yet i can ping repository.maemo.org with a 32ms reply.	18:23
Stskeeps	julianoliver: ah, that might be due to /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf and /etc/resolv.conf being difficult	18:23
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Stskeeps	qole: some people in UK has broken mics	18:23
julianoliver	Stskeeps: ok. what's the best course of action, do it from an sbox login?	18:23
Stskeeps	julianoliver: yeah	18:24
* julianoliver tries this		18:24
Stskeeps	julianoliver: there's a FAQ on it on the wiki somehwere	18:24
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pH5	lardman: sounds like a good idea.	18:24
pH5	especially since I'm going to profit from that interface ;)	18:24
qole	wow 54 posts already	18:24
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lardman	:)	18:25
lardman	well you couls still use it if it were part of the main app	18:25
lardman	just that the main app would be a bit heavier	18:25
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pH5	I'm wondering if we could (should?) abstract books and dvds (or audio CDs) into a common database backend, a generic "physical media" catalog?	18:25
felbutss	hey im having trouble launching linux	18:25
felbutss	ill do it at work tmw	18:25
Stskeeps	felbutss: alright, good luck then	18:25
felbutss	stskeeps: do u know any other commands i can try	18:26
felbutss	for force a detection?	18:26
Stskeeps	felbutss: the good news is that it's definately not completely hosed if windows registers a USB device :P	18:26
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qole	first guy with no mic was from Virginia...	18:26
felbutss	thank god	18:26
Stskeeps	qole: hmm? that's not good	18:27
range	Then it was NukNuk spamming all threads with the info that he had no mic.	18:27
lardman	pH5: yes, sounds like it would be a good idea	18:27
lardman	pH5: but then there are other apps which do things such as shopping lists and inventorying	18:27
julianoliver	Stskeeps: i'm trying to run $ ./maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh	18:27
qole	oh man, nuknuk was one of them...	18:27
julianoliver	Stskeeps: i'm trying to run $ ./maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh, which i believe cannot be run from inside the scratchbox environment.	18:27
pH5	lardman: I'm interested in storing the same optional metadata about movies and books (mostly location, person and date - where do I store it or who is it lent to, and since when)	18:27
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lardman	so whether they could all use the same integrated backend, or just spit the messages out over dbus and be done with it	18:28
felbutss	what about this???? -c, --cold-flash "Cold flash" the device	18:28
julianoliver	Stskeeps: is there another means of installing the SDK?	18:28
felbutss	or that?	18:28
felbutss	-U, --usb-device=ARG Specify USB device to use (bus:device address)	18:28
lardman	pH5: yep, same here	18:28
Stskeeps	felbutss: i think cold flash is serial only	18:28
lardman	pH5: just a case of deciding if it should be inside or outside mbarcode	18:28
felbutss	oooo. do u have the command u gave me yesterday 2 try?????? to force flashing mode	18:28
Stskeeps	felbutss: i guess you can try flasher-3.5 --enable-rd-mode -R for fun	18:29
lardman	we could have a free-form per-table database	18:29
lardman	which would allow a user to chose their fields, etc.	18:29
pH5	lardman: since there are usecases of mbarcode without any database functionality (like decoding a 2d code just to open a link), I'd say outside.	18:29
pH5	but it's only important if it really slows things down	18:29
lardman	it shouldn't slow it down (is all in there atm but hidden)	18:30
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lardman	the other option is to allow plugins, which can then do what they want with the data	18:30
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qole	Venomrush, is your mic one of the dead ones?	18:30
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lardman	the problem I see with having the app external is that it would then be better to remove all of the lookup code from mbarcode, and just have it decode, but in that case the user won't get quick feedback about what they've scanned	18:31
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derf	lardman: I like the plugins idea.	18:32
lardman	my thought was to give each plugin a window/notebook tab in which they can do what they want, and have them register a callback which is passed a piece of barcode data	18:33
derf	Primarily for two reasons: 1) the user can install the ones they want and 2) they can activate the ones they want at any given time.	18:33
lardman	yeah	18:33
lardman	if that's the best approach, the next question is the plugin framework	18:34
crashanddie	they require a good architecture though	18:34
lardman	any thoughts?	18:34
lardman	emerillon uses libethos for example	18:34
derf	That's the hard part, of course.	18:34
crashanddie	lardman: easy	18:34
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crashanddie	lardman: MyPlugin extends Plugin implements ViewableWindow	18:34
lardman	crashanddie: well they won't really have any co-dependencies other than a window to draw in and a callback to accept a string	18:34
lardman	what are these odd extends and implements words of which you speak?	18:35
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lardman	this is C afterall ;)	18:36
felbutss	i cant turn the device on anymore :S maybe the battery really is dead	18:37
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felbutss	ill try more things tmrw. off to bed	18:37
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lardman	libethos is quite nice in that you can write plugins in different languages	18:38
lardman	e.g. C, momo, python	18:38
lardman	mono even	18:38
lardman	might open it up to more people developing plugins for it	18:39
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qole	Stskeeps, ha, "Yeah, many of us hang out on #maemo on irc.freenode.net. Keep the tone sober and non-trollish though."	18:40
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Stskeeps	qole: i did realize that may attract trolls instead.	18:40
qole	heh, sober tone... heh heh heh	18:41
qole	I want a moment of silence for all of our comrades who received N900s with dead mics.	18:42
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Robot101	qole: surely they've got the silence all under control?	18:43
Robot101	:O	18:43
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slonopotamus	uh oh, new ringtone for n900. meh.	18:43
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slonopotamus	hehe. n900 sales started here. $1k.	18:44
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qole	I personally would be torn; send it in for repairs, maybe see it before Christmas, maybe after, or...	18:45
w00t_	sales are underway here, it's just a matter of trying to get one	18:45
* w00t_ has spent pretty much 1/2 of the day on the phone trying to make that happen.		18:45
qole	...use the headset for phone calls and wait till the new year to send it in...	18:45
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slonopotamus	w00t_, you won't lose anything if wait for a month, when all hysteria (not sure about spelling) calms down :)	18:47
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mikec	anyone with a n900 tell me what the driver for the mic (audio ) is. dmesg should show a problem	18:47
w00t_	slonopotamus: I can't wait that long, travelling	18:47
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w00t_	(spelling is right :))	18:47
VDVsx	ah, another nice finding, nokia completely removed the support for generic kb from maemo5 :( if you want to use a BT kb without issues you've to buy a expensive nokia su-8	18:47
julianoliver	slonopotamus: wow.. expensive. glad i didn't have to pay for mine..	18:47
Stskeeps	mikec: you ran into mic issue too?	18:48
qole	interesting, xchat on N900 triggers a pegged CPU...	18:48
timeless_mbp	feri++	18:48
mikec	nope, but want to help trouble shoot hardware or software issue	18:48
qole	...turns out a process called maemo-xinput-sounds is the culprit...	18:48
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slonopotamus	VDVsx, hehe. you what, thought it'll be backward-compatible?	18:49
mikec	i dont have a n900, but have experience with no audio issues under linux a lot LOL	18:49
mikec	ah is it software then?	18:49
qole	Stskeeps, What do you mean "without issues"	18:50
qole	sorry	18:50
VDVsx	slonopotamus, the mapping for the nokia one is there, the other kb are seeing as the hw kb on the n900, so no numbers and special chars	18:50
qole	VDVsx, what do you mean "without issues"?	18:51
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qole	oh, didn't try my bt kb much	18:51
VDVsx	qole, numbers and special chars don't work for me and seems that I'm not the only one	18:51
VDVsx	I can type small letters and commas and dots :p	18:52
mgedmin	which is kinda dumb, since X supports different keymaps for different hardware keyboard devices	18:52
lardman	am heading home	18:52
lardman	should be back online in a bit	18:52
lardman	bye	18:52
qole	keyboard mapping has been my biggest problem on the N900 so far...	18:52
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VDVsx	mgedmin, yes, can understand that decision	18:52
* mgedmin ought to pull his apple bt kbd from the table, blow the dust off, and experiment		18:52
VDVsx	*can't	18:52
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: Is your Bluetooth keyboard listed in "hildon-im-xkbtool --list"?	18:53
mgedmin	VDVsx, simple: do we do extra work here, or do we work on something we consider more important	18:53
VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, let me check	18:54
Stskeeps	mikec: i -think- audio is built-in in the kernel	18:54
VDVsx	mgedmin, it works under maemo4 dunno why they can't leave the things there	18:55
mgedmin	now that is a good question	18:55
mgedmin	and I'd love to hear the internal story	18:55
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slonopotamus	VDVsx, that's too simple :)	18:56
kalikianatoli	Hm... no Japanese IM for Fremantle yet, is there?	18:56
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microlith	kalikianatoli: not yet	18:57
VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, yes	18:57
kalikianatoli	I guess it's amazing enough what we have before the device even ships :-)	18:58
slonopotamus	neither as Japanese browser, yep.	18:58
wazd	chaps. is there any software for fan speed control?	18:58
wazd	for win	18:58
slonopotamus	assuming im = instant messenger :)	18:58
crashanddie	wazd: the n900 doesn't have fans	18:58
microlith	slonopotamus: the device should support JP in the browser no problem	18:58
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: Does "hildon-im-xkbtool -g" say it's using the su-8w layout?	18:58
Robot101	slonopotamus: input method	18:58
qwerty12_N900	wazd: SpeedFan	18:59
kalikianatoli	slonopotamus, I have a Japanese browser, I just need to upload the package :P	18:59
lcuk	wazd, mmm fan speed of which device	18:59
kalikianatoli	just the input is missing	18:59
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VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, yes	18:59
VDVsx	lol	18:59
qwerty12_N900	VDVsx: See if using hildon-im-xkbtool lets you set it to the gb layout :)	18:59
mikec	Stskeeps: i'm sure audio is, but on boot it will want to load the driver, and if it hits a prob dmesg should show problem,	18:59
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wazd	qwerty12_N900: it shows some activity but I can't change anything	19:00
wazd	lcuk: PC obviously :D	19:01
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mikec	ok just found dmesg output from a good unit on T.M.O	19:01
qwerty12_N900	wazd: Ah, it was the same for my old PC but with this PC I get nice spinbuttons on its main screen which work to adjust the speed	19:02
slonopotamus	wazd, speedfan?	19:02
wazd	slonopotamus: speedfan 4.39	19:02
slonopotamus	wazd, i used it ~5 years ago, though.	19:02
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VDVsx	qwerty12_N900, well,I probably can hack it and add the generic-105 layout, this is a very simple and unharmful thing, dunno why they need to remove a layout, lolo	19:02
wazd	slonopotamus: I've set bot fans to 50% but nothing helps	19:02
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slonopotamus	wazd, i guess you're need to sacrifice a couple of virgins in the name of glorious Windows then. that possibly will help.	19:04
slonopotamus	s/'re//	19:04
infobot	slonopotamus meant: wazd, i guess you need to sacrifice a couple of virgins in the name of glorious Windows then. that possibly will help.	19:04
Klowner	wtf are morons posting about getting their N900's from Dell on the Amazon discussion boards	19:05
* Klowner shakes fist		19:05
wazd	slonopotamus: no, I'll try Gigabyte utility first :P	19:05
slonopotamus	wazd, that's less fun :)	19:06
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slonopotamus	wazd, should desktop automagically control fans based on temp?	19:06
slonopotamus	wazd, maybe you're missing some mysterious driver?	19:06
Pavlov	none of the ones i ordered from dell have shipped :(	19:06
wazd	slonopotamus: maybe	19:07
slonopotamus	s/should/shouldn't/	19:07
wazd	slonopotamus: but my CPU is at 41 and GPU is at 43	19:07
wazd	that's kinda too cold :)	19:07
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Flandry	s/n on t.m.o is asymptotically approaching 0	19:08
crashanddie	lardman\|gone, or anyone else, do you know of any very fast lightweight HTTP library that would allow me to provide basic HTTP services?	19:09
crashanddie	(such as receive GET/POST requests)	19:09
slonopotamus	server-side?	19:10
Flandry	python has a few	19:10
Flandry	do you mean c	19:10
Stskeeps	crashanddie: libcurl	19:10
slonopotamus	if client-side, then curl.	19:10
crashanddie	server side	19:11
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, debianer :P	19:11
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crashanddie	anyone ever worked with Mongoose? (http://code.google.com/p/mongoose/)	19:12
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qole	weird, I'm just getting to work, making my first coffee, settling in... and others are going home for the day...	19:18
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qole	test something	19:19
Markus23	Does synchronization with kde pim works using n900 with maemo5?	19:19
qole	ok bye all	19:20
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pupnik	wb konttori	19:22
Khertan	hi !	19:22
pupnik	the new uqm port is nicely done btw	19:22
Khertan	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-3/ <-- require testing	19:22
Klowner	garrr, can't get the token-number for the Nokia binaries because the site is exploding	19:22
Khertan	:)	19:22
pupnik	nice Khertan	19:22
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Markus23	So nobody is syncing n900 with kde pim?	19:23
Khertan	pupnik there is still some optimization todo on the syntax parser ... but works fine ...	19:24
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Khertan	~ping	19:24
infobot	~pong	19:24
* brbrbr warmly greets everyone		19:24
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Klowner	anyone know if the Fremantle token number is unique for each person?	19:25
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Stskeeps	Klowner: yes, don't share it	19:26
Klowner	ok	19:26
Markus23	has someone tried to sync n900 using multisync?	19:26
Khertan	hum 10 minutes that mastory is publishing a post ... my connection is really slow	19:26
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* Klowner waits for the site to function :/		19:26
microlith	welp	19:27
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microlith	to hell with nokia usa	19:27
lardman	re	19:27
microlith	four month preorder up in smoke	19:27
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microlith	they can shove their horribly broken ordering system up their ass	19:27
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microlith	and if anyone here can forward that message to someone that works there	19:27
microlith	pelase do	19:27
microlith	please*	19:27
Khertan	hum ... it s not so bad	19:27
microlith	it is bad	19:28
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Khertan	there is worse than the nokia one	19:28
microlith	they're the only place that I have been unable to actually submit my order using my debit card	19:28
crashanddie	microlith: language, and calm down please too	19:28
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crashanddie	microlith: there's also something known as pre-paid credit cards	19:28
microlith	I have a credit card as well	19:28
microlith	they rejected that instantly too	19:28
Markus23	Ok, then another question: Has someone experience with openstreetmap cards on n900?	19:29
wazd	Wowshit!	19:29
crashanddie	microlith: website?	19:29
microlith	?	19:29
wazd	I've killed bios!	19:29
crashanddie	microlith: what's the website?	19:29
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microlith	for what?	19:29
crashanddie	"Nokia USA"?	19:29
Khertan	Markus23 ... is it available ?	19:29
Stskeeps	wazd: ..	19:29
SpeedEvil	Markus23: cards?	19:29
Klowner	is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php\|Maemo busted for anyone else?	19:29
microlith	http://www.nokiausa.com/	19:29
wazd	Shit! It just shows no signal	19:30
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wazd	Nomnomnomnom	19:30
wazd	Panic	19:30
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Markus23	Khertan: SpeedEvil: maps, sorry for my english	19:31
crashanddie	oh wow	19:31
crashanddie	I'm having an identity crisis so it seems	19:31
Markus23	have you used it?	19:31
crashanddie	microlith: moaning about any kind of websites in here really doesn't have any real use	19:32
konttori	pupnik: thanks	19:32
microlith	crashanddie: I'm more than a little irate at Nokia proper now	19:32
crashanddie	microlith: if you need to get something out of your system, go to the local gym or use those rusty dumbells	19:32
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microlith	since it is part of their business	19:32
SpeedEvil	Markus23: the browser should work on the openstreetmap site - however - I have not tried other software.	19:32
konttori	has been a long week. We have been preparing things for SSU for you guys.	19:32
crashanddie	microlith: but this channel isn't part of their business, and neither is the Maemo community	19:32
konttori	Looks like we finally have just the right receipe.	19:32
xorAxAx	hmm installing the nokia binaries fails for me with gateway errors	19:33
greenfly	yeah I thought this channel was for all things maemo, not all things nokia	19:33
Markus23	SpeedEvil: something using GPS would be nice	19:33
crashanddie	microlith: so call them and yell at a rep, I don't care, but please don't disrupt this channel, thanks	19:33
lardman	do I need a DBUS Interface for mbarcode?	19:33
greenfly	a nokia storefront really has zero to do with the maemo platform	19:33
xorAxAx	when will the repository server work again?	19:33
crashanddie	lardman: why?	19:33
lardman	well to send and receive messages	19:33
Khertan	konttori oh ssu for fremantle ?	19:33
crashanddie	lardman: again, why?	19:33
lardman	just wondering about what bits are necessary	19:33
crashanddie	lardman: let's not overcomplicate it at first	19:34
lardman	overcompilcate what?	19:34
crashanddie	words? :P	19:34
xorAxAx	ah, now it works	19:34
konttori	Khertan: yea	19:34
lardman	Interface is one of the DBus terms	19:34
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SpeedEvil	Markus23: I'm planning on doing things like that - but my n900 hasn't arrived yet	19:34
hashier	hej	19:34
Stskeeps	wello	19:35
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crashanddie	lardman: do you see an initial benefit, an immediate benefit that would come from having DBUS integration?	19:35
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Khertan	konttori any details ? big improvment ? surprize ?	19:35
Markus23	SpeedEvil: ok, thanks - seems to be too early to ask this kind of questions	19:35
Arkenoi	is ms exchange emulation the recommended way to sync with google at the moment?	19:35
lardman	crashanddie: I won't have to write any webscraping code	19:35
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greenfly	Arkenoi: depends on what you are synching	19:36
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greenfly	Arkenoi: with the calendar, you will only sync one calendar, not all	19:36
Khertan	Arkenoi : for contacts only ... yes	19:36
lardman	crashanddie: and other people could use barcodes more easily than writing their own gst code	19:36
Arkenoi	calendar, contacts	19:36
greenfly	Arkenoi: which is a limitation on Google's end (arguably on the exchange gateway protocol?)	19:36
Flandry	i think from the response in the talk thread, you should go ahead with it Lardman	19:36
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kalikianatoli	Khertan, the new pygtkeditor doesn't run here, it crashes :-/	19:36
Arkenoi	todo would be nice also	19:36
crashanddie	lardman: MoSCoW?	19:36
Khertan	kalikianatoli ? really ?	19:37
Khertan	greenfly : calendar sync is working for you ?	19:37
pupnik	i think the barcode app is the most hitech thing to come out of the community in a long time	19:37
kalikianatoli	Khertan, it loads forever and vanishes if I tap the task launcher	19:37
greenfly	Khertan: if you use the exchange gateway, google will only sync one calendar	19:37
lardman	crashanddie: enough with the pseudo-business babble :p	19:37
Khertan	arkemoi google doesn t support todo	19:37
lardman	crashanddie: what was your real point?	19:37
Arkenoi	does it read "classic" 1d barcodes?	19:37
greenfly	Khertan: but I've been using the GPE calendar and you can add all your google calendar private ical urls to it	19:37
Venomrush	best unboxing pics so far! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=391895&posted=1#post391895	19:37
Arkenoi	khertan well, i can live without it	19:37
Flandry	having something like that available as a service on dbus is a great building block for future apps	19:37
crashanddie	lardman: how about you start by fixing what is required for this app to be 100% usable	19:38
lardman	yeah	19:38
lardman	like what?	19:38
Khertan	kalikianatoli can you launch it from xterm ?	19:38
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lardman	crashanddie: have you used it recently?	19:38
crashanddie	lardman: I'm tired of having apps which are awesome in concept, but never in execution. I love the fact you can scan a barcode with it, but I hate I have to use the camera app to focus and can't launch the camera app after mbarcode is launched	19:38
Arkenoi	greenfly: is GPE suite reasonable replacement for builtin PIM? are there any integration problems?	19:38
kalikianatoli	Khertan, "no module named dbus"	19:38
crashanddie	lardman: nope, only the one from the summit	19:38
Khertan	did you use package 3.0.0-3 ?	19:38
lardman	well there we are	19:38
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Arkenoi	focus is terrible	19:39
crashanddie	lardman: then advertise your work, man!	19:39
Khertan	kalikianatoli arg a dependancy error	19:39
crashanddie	lardman: is it in the repos?	19:39
greenfly	Arkenoi: seems to work fine for me, it's just choosing to launch one program versus another	19:39
Arkenoi	actually i never managed to focus on a barcode which is directly nearby within 20cm	19:39
Khertan	kalikianatoli thx	19:39
Flandry	he did, on t.m.o	19:39
greenfly	but I haven't tried anything beyond the calendar	19:39
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kalikianatoli	Khertan, no problem.	19:40
Arkenoi	greenfly, is there any object integration? can i, say, attach a contact card to an appointment?	19:40
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lardman	crashanddie: yes, maemo-devel	19:40
waz1	Damn, any ideas?	19:40
greenfly	Arkenoi: shrug	19:40
greenfly	Arkenoi: haven't tried any of that stuff	19:40
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waz1	No ideas?	19:45
Stskeeps	waz1: what exactly did you do?	19:46
konttori	Khertan: no details yet.	19:46
konttori	I'll check if I can leak something next week.	19:46
Arkenoi	btw i have contacts sucked out from my old phone	19:46
Arkenoi	it was synced with google	19:46
waz1	Stskeeps: erm, used gigabyte's facereplace utility	19:47
konttori	you won't be getting it next week if that's a good detail ;)	19:47
Arkenoi	if i enable google sync now, will i get zillions of duplicates	19:47
Arkenoi	?	19:47
waz1	Stskeeps: it just replaces boot image	19:47
waz1	Stskeeps: that's all :(	19:47
Arkenoi	or even worse contacts dropped out due to a conflict	19:47
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lardman	ok, have added some thoughts to the TMO post	19:48
lardman	your thoughts appreciated	19:48
* lardman goes to compile an up-to-date Diablo version for the repo		19:48
Stskeeps	waz1: not sure what facereplace is	19:49
Stskeeps	(google doesn't tell me)	19:49
Khertan	konttori: arf :)	19:49
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t_s_o	hmm, new garnet vm beta?	19:50
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crashanddie	lardman: can I report bugs? :D Works nicely!	19:50
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lardman	crashanddie: sure	19:50
lardman	:)	19:50
crashanddie	lardman: the app crashes when you lock on a code it doesn't find the lookup for, and then you scan one for which it does find the lookup	19:51
_claesbas	t_s_o, yea, saw that I wonder if there are some news this time	19:51
lardman	yeah, that's my crappy webscraping code	19:51
t_s_o	_claesbas: going to download now...	19:51
lardman	I need to work out what to do with that, see my post here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34996	19:51
crashanddie	lardman: and the field which displays the EAN code shows some funky characters sometimes after the webscraping	19:51
_claesbas	t_s_o, ok, please report if you find something useful.. :-P	19:52
lardman	crashanddie: yeah, same issue	19:52
lardman	crashanddie: probably best to display the raw data there and let another app/plugin handle the real data	19:52
lardman	s/real/looked up	19:52
waz2	Gb has some virtual bios feature	19:52
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Stskeeps	waz1: know how to reset a CMOS? :P	19:54
crashanddie	lardman: code?	19:54
Khertan	ouch extras-devel is still broken ?	19:54
waz2	Stskeeps: didn't help	19:54
greenfly	Khertan: it's not so much that it's still broken, just that it's intermittently broken	19:54
Khertan	stskeeps : with a powerfull ultra violet lamp	19:54
lardman	crashanddie: Garage, maemo-barcode	19:54
Khertan	greenfly: thx for the information i ll try a bit later so	19:55
Stskeeps	Khertan: true	19:55
Stskeeps	:P	19:55
waz2	Stskeeps: can you help me a bit by googling gigabyte dual bios plus feature	19:55
waz2	Stskeeps: how to use it	19:55
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Stskeeps	waz2: yeah, i am reading the manual	19:55
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waz2	Stskeeps: mb: GA-M57SLI-S4	19:56
Markus23	have that board too :-)	19:56
Stskeeps	waz2: symptoms are that nothing at all shows on screen? :P	19:56
Markus23	do you know where to buy a bios chip for it?	19:56
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waz2	Stskeeps: yep, no signal	19:57
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Khertan	does there is kmow bugs with mastory and wordpress image upload or does myh wp is broken ?	19:57
waz2	Markus23: it has bios restore feature	19:57
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waz2	Markus23: but I don't know how to trigger it	19:58
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waz2	Damn, this is so lame	19:59
Markus23	waz2: ok, would be important to know before trying to flash :-)	20:00
waz2	Stskeeps: anything useful?	20:00
Khertan	auto builder is really slow this evening	20:02
Stskeeps	waz2: it should fallback to second BIOS, not fail completely :P	20:02
Stskeeps	waz2: put back CMOS jumper btw?	20:03
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Stskeeps	waz2: ok, take out the CMOS battery for a minute	20:06
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Markus23	isn't that just to reset the settings?	20:06
Stskeeps	yeah, but chances are that the ettings currently in use don't work the backup bios	20:07
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Stskeeps	wazd: ok, take out the CMOS battery for a minute	20:07
Markus23	but how to get the backup bios?	20:08
Markus23	(restore it)	20:08
Stskeeps	Markus23: normally it would failover to backup if first one failed	20:08
Markus23	ok, nice	20:08
Markus23	should really try to flash it then	20:08
Stskeeps	i think he wish he could :P	20:08
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lcuk	wazd, remember to take out the power cable too	20:09
lcuk	just removing the battery on its own whilst power is still in doesnt reset on all mobos	20:09
ali1234	i wouldn't have thought that would work on any board...	20:10
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wazd	Derp	20:11
Markus23	there is also a jumper for resetting it	20:11
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lcuk	yeah but jumpers need specific knowledge, the battery is most universally understood and recognisable	20:11
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lcuk	even by wazd :D	20:12
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wazd	Ok...	20:13
ali1234	i've used dualbios as an adhoc eeprom copier	20:13
Stskeeps	wazd: any luck?	20:13
ali1234	the backup bios has to be bit for bit identical to the main, otherwise it trigger an error	20:14
Markus23	CLR_CMOS is next to the battery	20:14
Stskeeps	ali1234: won't a bios update hose it then? :P	20:14
Stskeeps	if it's a bad update	20:14
wazd	Didn't help	20:14
AakashPatel	Does the N900 support SPP bluetooth profile?	20:14
ali1234	no. it first checksums the main bios. if that's good, it compares it with the backup and if the backup doesn't match, it copies main->backup	20:14
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ali1234	if the main fails checksum it copies backup->main	20:15
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Markus23	wazd: it is directly above it (not where the SYS_FAN connector is, the other side)	20:15
SpeedEvil	Oh.	20:15
wazd	Markus23: already tried it	20:15
* SpeedEvil became confused about the above conversation before realising it was not n900 based.		20:15
Markus23	ohh.. don't have any more ideas	20:16
Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: we do think of other things than n900. like bacon.	20:16
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: Cheese.	20:16
Stskeeps	ali1234: so it is actuallly a hw failure protection, not a bad bios update protection?	20:16
ali1234	yeah basically	20:16
Stskeeps	well that's kinda shitty :)	20:16
lcuk	Stskeeps, you know better than anyone, the unused feature of n900 is the bacon grill on the slideout keyboard	20:16
ali1234	if you flash something wrong but with a valid checksum into the main bios, you are screwed	20:17
Markus23	ohh...	20:17
Khertan	oh shit it s my wordpress which is broken	20:18
ali1234	although in that case, it wont get as far as running the copier	20:18
Markus23	is there a usenet reader on n900?	20:18
ali1234	so you can pull the main bios and force to boot from the backup	20:18
timeless_mbp	Markus23: google groups should work :)	20:18
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ali1234	also loads of these dual bios boards don't come with two bios chips installed... they have one empty socket (mine did anyway)	20:19
Markus23	:-) and something local also?	20:19
Markus23	ali1234: yes, noticed that already, where do i get another chip?	20:19
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ali1234	i got one from another dead board	20:19
ali1234	any computer scrap dealer will have loads of them :)	20:19
timeless_mbp	Markus23: gmail subscription to google groups? :)	20:19
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Khertan	Markus23: microb :)	20:20
Markus23	timeless_mbp: thats not the spirit of usenet :-)	20:20
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RST38h	Ahhahaha: http://mobiletablets.blogspot.com/2009/11/maemo-minute.html	20:20
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Stskeeps	wazd: next to the middle PCIE slots in direction of nVidia chipset, is there one or two bios chips?	20:21
AakashPatel	hahah RST38h	20:21
RST38h	The spirit of usenet has long turned to vinnegar	20:21
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RST38h	WAIT. Is KOffice finally out?	20:22
* Khertan is waiting autobuilder		20:22
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Markus23	I will just wait for kde on n900 and use knode :-P	20:23
* kalikianatoli is waiting for dpkg before sending it to autobuilder		20:24
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RST38h	you can probably port knode right away, it does not depend on kde much (or didn't, anyway)	20:24
Khertan	Markus23: i think you will wait a long time	20:24
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* RST38h is usually waiting for dput not to fail =)		20:24
waz1	so, I'm screwed then	20:24
Stskeeps	waz1: virtual dual bios you say?	20:24
waz1	Stskeeps: yep	20:25
Khertan	dput didnt work with a 3G phone connection due to limitation on port different than 80	20:25
Khertan	s/a/my	20:25
ali1234	you have to do the bios hotswap trick :)	20:25
Markus23	RST38h: yes, don't think it will be too hard	20:25
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* Klowner hunts for the tablets-dev.nokia.com admin so he can beat them with a rubber hose		20:26
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Stskeeps	waz1: you -may- be able to rescue from a usb	20:27
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lcuk	whats actually happening? and i hope oyu have the speaker plugged in so you can hear the beeps	20:28
RST38h	Anyone knows if KOffice is in Extras already?	20:28
Khertan	~ping	20:28
infobot	~pong	20:28
Khertan	s/a/my	20:28
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waz1	I'd better take it to the service	20:29
Khertan	rst38h ... it s not	20:29
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RST38h	Then why announce it? :(	20:29
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Khertan	who do it ?	20:29
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RST38h	Khertan: http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/reviews/appsrev/1311-koffice-21-released-ups-nokia-n900-and-microsoft-office-compatibility	20:30
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Markus23	Stskeeps: how should that work? booting from usb needs bios too?	20:31
RST38h	"Wikipedia bans Volvo's IT over racist rants"<== eek	20:31
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Stskeeps	Markus23: noone says there can't be a small bios somewhere.	20:32
AakashPatel	RST38h, where'd you read taht?	20:32
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derf	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/25/wikipedia_bans_volvo/	20:32
waz1	Fuck...	20:33
* Stskeeps passes waz1 a cookie and hopes for the best		20:33
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Khertan	maemo-freaks is like maemo-experts nothing more than a blog made from people which don t know what they are talking about	20:34
javispedro	like the rest of the maemo fansites..	20:34
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javispedro	well, most of them.	20:34
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javispedro	but I guess that comes with mainstreamness, as usual.	20:35
RST38h	yea	20:35
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RST38h	javis: Seen that Mowgli wiki link?	20:36
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Khertan	maemo.org/packages : http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-3/	20:36
Khertan	~ping	20:36
infobot	~pong	20:36
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bitcrusher	hi guys	20:39
AakashPatel	yo bitcrusher	20:39
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bitcrusher	hi there Patel	20:39
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waz1	Daaaaamn, why am I such a looser	20:40
Stskeeps	at least you still have your tablet	20:41
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Khertan	rst38h: they announce that it ll be available one day on n900	20:41
Khertan	but of course maemo-freaks announce that it s available	20:42
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javispedro	RST38h: nope	20:42
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* Khertan didn t read anymore talk.maemo.org		20:42
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* Khertan realize that he didn t read anymore maemo planet due to all this false info from dumb blog		20:43
BBNS	mmm seems a few people got 'memory card corrupted and low memory' issues ...	20:43
Stskeeps	BBNS: worse one is the mic failure, i'd sa	20:43
Stskeeps	y	20:43
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BBNS	Stskeeps: that's kinda scare me actually. :3 didn't korean factory do some QA test?	20:44
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* Khertan fear is one week waranty device will have default		20:46
Khertan	+that is	20:47
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detective	hey guys, where are the perl libarys for arm? if i'm trying to build an application with perl support, it always chooses /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi while configuring	20:48
BBNS	Khertan: it's kinda give bad impression for people, especially for the new comers.	20:48
javispedro	well in one week warranty you can test if the mic works or not ;)	20:48
bitcrusher	hey javispedro, you did the DrNokSnes for the N900, right?	20:48
javispedro	yeah	20:48
javispedro	btw, so the mic issue is definitely hardware?	20:49
bitcrusher	got any pointes in starting c++'ing, especially for the n900?	20:49
RST38h	do you know c?	20:49
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bitcrusher	sadly no, some light C#/.net and lots of php	20:50
RST38h	get K&r c book and read it first	20:50
Khertan	bbns but i can understand it as it s for dev	20:50
bitcrusher	K&R?	20:50
RST38h	somebody give him amazon link	20:51
* RST38h is eating as he types		20:51
Khertan	or learn python	20:51
SpeedEvil	http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Language-Dennis-M-Richie/dp/0876925964	20:51
derf	Really, just don't bother learning C++.	20:51
RST38h	well he wants c++, c is the spot to start from	20:51
derf	Unless someone is paying you a lot of money, it's almost always the wrong language for the job.	20:51
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_berto_	c++ -> http://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-Language-Special/dp/0201700735	20:51
mece	what's wrong with c++?	20:51
RST38h	c++ is the 2nd step, thanks speedevil	20:51
Khertan	derf lol	20:52
bitcrusher	i've just set up a pygame environment, and I find the tutorials very lacking for pygame	20:52
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Khertan	it s seems the recommended one for qt dev	20:52
bitcrusher	i definitly want an OOP language like C++ over just C	20:52
_berto_	c++ is usually criticized for being too complex	20:52
Ceron^	:D got damn im so tierd	20:52
Ceron^	no n900 yet	20:52
Ceron^	sucks	20:52
bitcrusher	thanks for the link _berto_	20:52
mece	_berto_: bah. Same as the rest.	20:53
Ceron^	i guess il wait no n990	20:53
RST38h	c++ is ok as a better v	20:53
Khertan	goto++ powa !!	20:53
RST38h	c	20:53
Ceron^	i wont buy this n900...	20:53
derf	RST38h: No one uses it like that, though.	20:53
Ceron^	want the next version with qwerty that has maemo 6	20:53
* RST38h does		20:53
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Khertan	how to say ... it s your problem	20:53
derf	And really, for the shittier compiler tools you have to work with, it's not worth it.	20:53
lcuk	RST38h, you? http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/11039	20:54
derf	RST38h: You're no one.	20:54
* greenfly sits back and watches C++ holy war #1985980234832		20:54
bitcrusher	i've heard that C++ is complex as well, from a very skilled programmer, whos used coding for the last 20 years	20:54
suihkulokki	Ceron^: you mean you actually enjoy waiting so much you'll keep waiting?	20:54
RST38h	derf: Screw stl, exceptions, rtti, 99% templates, multiple inheritance, and you have got a better c	20:54
bitcrusher	which ofcourse scares me at bit that HE says that	20:54
RST38h	derf: not to my employer and clients though	20:54
derf	Also constructors, destructors, ...	20:54
bitcrusher	so any pointers on pygame then?	20:54
Ceron^	suihkulokki: yeh waited like a year	20:54
Ceron^	so why not wait 2 years?	20:54
_berto_	bitcrusher: it's easier if you read the book first ;)	20:54
javispedro	ah... no Java, no C++ :)	20:55
bitcrusher	anyone had experience with that on the N900 or N8xx devices?	20:55
RST38h	derf: keep the constructors and destructors. they are useful	20:55
derf	RST38h: Except their design is basically broken.	20:55
* Lorthirk` agrees		20:55
derf	So you can't actually do anything useful in them.	20:55
RST38h	derf: I would disallow use of new and delete, but...	20:55
RST38h	derf: it is ok, many broken things are useful	20:55
*** Lorthirk` is now known as Lorthirk		20:55
Lorthirk	ok, i'm gonna take some chips	20:56
bitcrusher	_berto_ i've found out im not very good at "theoretical" knowledge, but I am with practical knowledge = when i need to use it	20:56
Lorthirk	this is going to be funny to watch :D	20:56
Markus23	RST38h: C++ does not disallow that because at some point you may need it	20:56
RST38h	bitcrusher: K&R book is pretty slim and very practical	20:56
Jaffa	lbt: good points on QA and non-free	20:56
Markus23	e.g. implementing containers yourself	20:56
RST38h	Markus: Yea, I guess so :)	20:56
Lupu	Lorthirk: Just let me know who wins in the end, ok? ;)	20:56
_berto_	bitcrusher: c++ introduces quite a few concepts when compared to c so it's a good idea to read about them first :)	20:56
Lorthirk	ok lupu, i'll try :)	20:56
greenfly	it's a shame, because someone asks for help and he gets a teaspoon of help and a gallon of know-it-all language cops	20:56
* Lupu suspects Haskell		20:56
* Lupu hides		20:56
RST38h	bitcrusher: Anyway, disregarding whether C++ is actually worth learning, you should start with C in order to learn C++	20:57
javispedro	greenfly: that's what you can expect when asking for C help in #maemo ;)	20:57
mikec	anyone got a good n900 that can run cat /proc/asound/devices for me	20:57
_berto_	definitely	20:57
* lcuk compares c to visual basic then runs		20:57
greenfly	you might as well be arguing about which superhero can beat up which other one	20:57
bitcrusher	_berto_ id imagine it would be different, as C would introduce new concepts, because of the lacking OOP	20:57
RST38h	bitcrusher: Whether you want to proceed to C++ and how far is a personal business of yours	20:57
greenfly	well he did want help with c++ on the n900 specifically	20:57
Markus23	bitcrusher: and mainly lacking references and templates you see lots of pointers and macros there	20:57
greenfly	which makes sense considering the move to qt	20:57
Khertan	greenfly please define good	20:57
lcuk	mikec, ive got a bad one that i can try it with but afail asound isnt there	20:58
RST38h	Well, n900 is no different from generic Linux as far as C++ is concerned	20:58
RST38h	So, that was really a no-question	20:58
greenfly	Khertan: ?	20:58
bitcrusher	RST38h: ofcourse, but its always good to hear others arguments for and against, before making up you own mind i think :)	20:58
javispedro	(or QTC++)	20:58
_berto_	bitcrusher: I'm talking about the language itself, of course creating a basic class and doing inheritance is easier in c++	20:58
mece	I think we're talking Qt here, amiright bitcrusher?	20:58
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Khertan	greenfly : good n900 device	20:58
mikec	lcuk:cheers trying to find out what the device names are for the mic	20:58
greenfly	Khertan: I don't think I said that	20:59
lcuk	there is acutally hold on	20:59
RST38h	bitcrusher: Whether C++ is of any use is everyone's favorite flame war argument	20:59
lcuk	lemme do this from ssh	20:59
qwerty12_N900	mikec: http://pastebin.com/f52b11f35	20:59
Khertan	greemfly oh sorry	20:59
RST38h	bitcrusher: i.e. you will not get anything useful by listening to it	20:59
Khertan	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-5/	20:59
RST38h	To each his own	20:59
mikec	ok cheers	20:59
javispedro	(aka as religious flame war)	20:59
bitcrusher	mece: depends, till i got my eye on the N900 i had never heard of Qt, but if Qt is mandatory to get code running on the N900, the yes ;)	20:59
Khertan	someone have error ?	20:59
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lcuk	damn its not setup, someone else will have to	20:59
greenfly	bitcrusher: it isn't, you can also use GTK libraries for GUI programming	20:59
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mece	bitcrusher: it's not.	20:59
greenfly	which would (generally) be in C or python	20:59
bitcrusher	if ive gotten this right, Qt is the window manager, right?	21:00
_berto_	bitcrusher: Qt is not mandatory, in fact all built-in apps are written in plain C	21:00
bitcrusher	GUI manager then	21:00
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* RST38h can argue both for and against C++ for example, depending on the accumulation of bile		21:00
greenfly	bitcrusher: QT is a GUI library that you can use to draw buttons, windows, dropdowns, etc.	21:00
bitcrusher	excatly	21:00
bitcrusher	like Gnome/KDE	21:00
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greenfly	a window manager is different	21:00
Lupu	QT is so much more than that...	21:00
greenfly	bitcrusher: no, KDE /uses/ the QT library	21:00
Lorthirk	indeed	21:00
Khertan	not like gnome/kde	21:00
mece	bitcrusher: And it's pretty nice, especially since it has some nice stuff that makes you want to kill yourself less when programming c++. IMO.	21:00
Klowner	and Gnome uses GTK	21:00
Lorthirk	i was writing, qt is a framework	21:00
_berto_	bitcrusher: for the n900 you can use C, C++, Python, ...	21:00
Lorthirk	not only for gui	21:00
bitcrusher	oh it does, i thought it was "its own" code it used	21:01
bitcrusher	<-- at the KDE comment	21:01
acouto	hi all, i have a n800 and i'd want to know if is there a command that show if is chinook or diablo?	21:01
lcuk	bitcrusher, i believe gcc also has FORTRAN built in	21:01
_berto_	bitcrusher: and you can choose gtk, qt, efl, ... although the official toolkit is gtk	21:01
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jeremiah	Jaffa: Personally I think non-free apps suck, but I suppose everything should go through -testing.	21:01
Khertan	perl is an other option	21:01
greenfly	bitcrusher: ncurses:command line::qt:GUI	21:01
Klowner	Nokia bought Trolltech didn't they?	21:02
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Lorthirk	yes	21:02
bitcrusher	Klowner: yes they did	21:02
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jeremiah	Khertan: \o/	21:02
Lorthirk	in fact now you can download qt from qt.nokia.com	21:02
Lupu	Which reminds me, has there ever been an obfuscated perl code contest?... hmm	21:02
Lorthirk	(iirc)	21:02
_berto_	Lupu: of course	21:02
Klowner	Lupu: you mean regular perl contest?	21:02
kynky	is the mic not working fault happening to a high percentage of uk orders ?	21:02
RST38h	Lupu: not considered an accomplishment	21:02
javispedro	writing unofuscated perl code would be an accomplishment ;)	21:03
jeremiah	perl poetry FTQ	21:03
mece	bitcrusher: You might want to check Qt out, since maemo6 will be using that stuff.	21:03
_berto_	RST38h: oh, it is -> http://mysite.verizon.net/les.peters/id2.html	21:03
mece	bitcrusher: Here http://qt.nokia.com :)	21:03
Lupu	That was my point, I can understand an OCCC, but doing the same with perl would just be... unfair	21:03
bitcrusher	hmm, i guess ill try and start out with Pygame first, then maybe move on to Qt ;) v. 1.8.1 of pygame is available to the N900, right?	21:03
mece	bitcrusher: but if you just want to hack some stuff on your device, I'd go with python.	21:04
mece	Aren't there pyQt stuff too?	21:04
Khertan	jeremiah : http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-5/ : Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/repository.php on line 542	21:04
RST38h	berto: looks like normal perl to me	21:04
jeremiah	That error again. :/	21:04
_berto_	RST38h: heh :)	21:04
_berto_	actually you can write readable perl code	21:04
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_berto_	but people like to obfuscate it	21:05
_berto_	:p	21:05
mece	_berto: GASP	21:05
slonopotamus	comment out line 542 then :)	21:05
jeremiah	Khertan: You can see from the beginning of that path that it is on /mnt/netapp	21:05
bitcrusher	for starters, just to get a feeling with the device, my skills and making apps, as im a webdev/php whore and not used to writing to displays, check inputs and whatnot	21:05
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jeremiah	Which means it is actually on another machine	21:05
jeremiah	Khertan: I am not sure I have access to that, but I will check.	21:06
_berto_	i have to leave, guys	21:06
_berto_	see you	21:06
mece	bitcrusher: just start small.	21:06
Lupu	I recently got my hands on a 4k perl POS. An interesting statistic: 30% of its lines included "$_".	21:06
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jeremiah	$_ is the default variable in perl	21:06
Lupu	That's not including other default variable references, such as plain "/something/"	21:06
waz1	oh, found service that restores bios for 10 bucks	21:06
bitcrusher	yes, definitely, learned that the hard way with php back in the day ;)	21:06
waz1	Whew	21:06
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Lupu	Talk about readable code...	21:07
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jeremiah	Perl is very readable.	21:07
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bitcrusher	but anyone know of some pygame on Maemo devices ? as the pygame site itself, seems very lacking and out of date in its tutorial section	21:07
jeremiah	Most people who complain about its syntax don't know much about perl	21:07
bitcrusher	what i meant was, some pygame tutorials on Maemo devices	21:08
RST38h	most people who know enough perl can be consiered crazy	21:08
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RST38h	enough not to complain about the syntax that is	21:08
jeremiah	RST38h: Yeah, like Amazon, BBC, NYTimes and Ticket Master	21:08
Lupu	Using the default variable is no better(or worse) than using function and variable names such as "$a", etc.	21:08
RST38h	are these all people?	21:08
greenfly	really? a perl holy war too? really?	21:08
greenfly	sad guys....	21:09
greenfly	really sad	21:09
* RST38h is lazily choosing a topic to troll in		21:09
Klowner	bitcrusher: pyglet has very few dependencies, might be worth seeing if that compiles	21:09
mece	I refuse to touch anything other than sml.	21:09
Lorthirk	is this the flame language evening?	21:09
RST38h	perl or c++ is ok, but can we have a political flame war for a change?	21:09
kynky	lol	21:10
tekonivel	fiddled with production n900 at nokia flagship store today	21:10
mece	how about religion?	21:10
javispedro	religious. I vote religigous.	21:10
* RST38h throws up all over mece. Don't you EVER...		21:10
tekonivel	maybe shipping on friday, they said	21:10
* kynky likes haskell		21:10
Klowner	Obama is a cylon!	21:10
Lorthirk	religious is overrated, everyone flames about religion	21:10
javispedro	well and why we can't be like everyone	21:10
mece	Kowner: What? He likes all along the watchtower or what?	21:10
RST38h	Religious? What is there to argue about? The Tentacled One finds all confessions tasty	21:10
Klowner	mece: yes, from bollywood soundtracks	21:11
Lupu	haha	21:11
javispedro	fortunately, the mic issue is concentrating most trolls in one single true thread	21:11
RST38h	Except for protestants maybe, too dull...	21:11
Lorthirk	javispedro: being like everyone? then we should all dump maemo to buy an iphone!	21:11
greenfly	orrrrr you could talk about maemo and talk about those topics in the channels already devoted to them!	21:11
RST38h	we talk about maemo day and night, can we all have a rest?	21:12
javispedro	yes! my mainstreamy me always wanted an iphone!	21:12
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Lorthirk	greenfly: this is our evening off, it seems	21:12
mece	hey yeah I was chatting earlier about this. Any good ideas how to improve the efficiency of playing mp3s? I mean 35% cpu? That is just ridiculous!	21:12
greenfly	RST38h: sure can, it's called /part	21:12
RST38h	What part?	21:12
kynky	there is always #thisisnotmaemo for non meamo talk	21:12
greenfly	no, the /part command	21:12
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RST38h	Front part or hind part maybe?	21:12
greenfly	ie, you aren't forced to stay here :)	21:12
RST38h	What is that part of the command?	21:13
kynky	/part	21:13
RST38h	I am not?	21:13
greenfly	only one way to find out	21:13
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* Arkenoi tries to sync with google.. shen syncing "calendar and tasks" progress bar sticks near 100% and never completes :-(		21:13
* RST38h finally found a good trolling strategy for today. Let us call it The Mad hatter Style		21:13
qwerty12_N900	Let's go all philosophical: What is the purpose of the /part command? Where did it originate from? Who used it first?	21:14
RST38h	greenfly: what way? left or right?	21:14
RST38h	qwerty: Who were the parents?	21:14
javispedro	what about good cop bad cop trolling? =)	21:14
greenfly	well it was only a matter of time before this became like t.m.o	21:14
RST38h	qwerty: Were they of different genders?	21:14
Lupu	qwerty12_N900: Jarkko Oikarinen?	21:14
derf	RST38h: Palin already has you beat in spades.	21:14
kalikianatoli	Arkenoi, sounds better than here. it never made any progress when I tried	21:14
derf	Since you wanted to troll about politics.	21:14
waz1	RST38h: childhood :D	21:14
RST38h	derf: Palin is unprofessional at this	21:14
RST38h	derf: I.e. she can't control the flow	21:15
qwerty12_N900	Lupu: But, on a philosophical level, how can we be sure that it was him?	21:15
derf	Are you crazy? Look at how much people talk about her.	21:15
derf	She is a consummate politician.	21:15
Lupu	qwerty12_N900: Can't you apply the duck principle on this somehow?	21:15
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pwannell	hi all	21:15
RST38h	derf: Lots of people talk about dinosaurs, and those do not even exist	21:15
mece	Top Palin headline today "Palin tells Marg Delahunty Canada should 'dismantle' public health-care system"	21:16
mece	or was it yesterday? Anyway. Good one.	21:16
RST38h	derf: And diarrhea gets more TV broadcast time than Palin ever will	21:16
pwannell	anyone received their n900 yet	21:16
RST38h	Does this imply that diarrhea would beat Palin at presidential race?	21:16
derf	I'm not sure what channels you're watching.	21:16
derf	But you make me glad I don't watch TV.	21:16
qwerty12_N900	Lupu: How can we be sure that applying the duck principle will benefit us all?	21:16
RST38h	derf: The local TV is showing some low budget movie about the end of the world	21:17
Lorthirk	and what if the duck is sick, anyway?	21:17
Lorthirk	many birds always dies from strange diseases	21:18
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lcuk	biggest problem with relying on the duck is that its afk normally	21:18
RST38h	Well, if the duck has no medical insurance, it has got a problem	21:18
javispedro	duck has H1n1	21:18
javispedro	run!	21:18
* qwerty12_N900 throws it on javispedro's place of residence		21:19
Lorthirk	RST38h: maybe obama will let her have some treatment too	21:19
kalikianatoli	Is it useful to upload a package depending on a currently-building package?	21:19
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* javispedro grabs baseball bat		21:19
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qwerty12_N900	javispedro: put it down!	21:19
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mece	I had that piggy stuff already. it wasn't that bad.	21:19
kalikianatoli	Or maybe I should just wait patiently	21:19
qwerty12_N900	Look what you caused, javispedro	21:19
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kalikianatoli	javispedro, you caused the netsplit!	21:19
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RST38h	Lorthirk: Sex changes are not covered by Medicare/Medicaid. I think.	21:19
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mece	is it just me or does this channel seem a little trippy atm?	21:20
RST38h	qwerty: Yes, the Mad Hatter trolling is known to do that	21:20
* javispedro kicks freenode		21:20
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Lorthirk	i'm not about to find it out anyway	21:20
Arkenoi	tried contacts-only sync, got "exchange server not responding" at something like 50%	21:20
* RST38h pushes javispedro back into the kettle		21:20
* kalikianatoli is sad that he can't install FrozenBubble due to missing perl deps		21:20
Lorthirk	oh, by the way, is there some irc client for n900?	21:21
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RST38h	Lort: XChat	21:21
javispedro	there's not. all those people with n900 in the nick are lying.	21:21
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RST38h	Arkenoi: I am not sure, but your best bet may be talking to Jaffa	21:21
RST38h	He did some work on syncing	21:21
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Lorthirk	javispedro: or maybe, those people put a duck in front of the pc just to blame them when we say they're lying	21:22
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Arkenoi	is he around atm?	21:22
kalikianatoli	or maybe they are lying in a hamock, with their n900	21:22
RST38h	OMG someone has got an N900 from DDP!	21:22
* javispedro has heart attack and dies		21:23
RST38h	Arkenoi: no idea	21:23
* javispedro 's ghost will haunt RST38h for saying that		21:23
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* RST38h adds ghost to the BOM		21:23
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javispedro	I have to wonder why useless bloggers receive it before useless coders like me!	21:24
unixSnob	anyone like garnet enough to not return to maemo?	21:24
RST38h	Because bloggers will inherit the world	21:25
javispedro	unixSnob: what?	21:25
qwerty12_N900	javispedro: Start the DrNokSnes blog ;)	21:25
* javispedro would like to but he has a hard time to even keep his own blog updated		21:25
unixSnob	javispedro: anyone like garnet enough to not return to maemo?	21:25
lcuk	if i am using Qik and my internet connection dies (say im at a wedding) does recording continue, or do i have to get them to stop what they are doing and redo vows when connection is restored	21:25
javispedro	maybe I need to open a twitter account and start talking about my frequent toilet visits.	21:25
Lorthirk	speaking of useless bloggers	21:26
Lorthirk	i was thinking of another blog	21:26
mece	lcuk: why don't you try it?	21:26
lcuk	javispedro, no, just get the toilet itself twitter enabled	21:26
RST38h	javispedro: BTW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQPx2VoD84I (SDL, Nethack based)	21:26
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lcuk	let it post logs when you flush	21:26
Lorthirk	some tutorials, focused on coding for 900	21:26
lcuk	mece, multitple reasons, was just a question	21:26
Lorthirk	now, strike me down!	21:26
kalikianatoli	lcuk, "uptime" :-)	21:26
javispedro	unixSnob: "garnet" is dead. garnet vm is a maemo app.	21:26
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Mousey	long live garnet!	21:26
javispedro	oh, I've never played nethack...	21:26
qwerty12_N900	"A big one entered me. Needed to be flushed a couple o'times."	21:26
Oli``	Random question but does anyone here know how to quit DrNokSnes?	21:27
* kalikianatoli looks disgusted at qwerty12_N900		21:27
lcuk	3.58: OVERFLOW ERROR	21:27
RST38h	javis: aka Moria, Angband, ZAngband, Slashem	21:27
Oli``	Never minf.. figured it out randomly pressing the screen =)	21:27
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unixSnob	javispedro: ah, yeah, looks that way. i thought it was something that would run natively on nit	21:27
lcuk	im gettin an arduino for this very purpose	21:28
javispedro	Oli``: you can exit drnoksnes by tapping the screen?	21:28
javispedro	who implemented that?	21:28
lbt	Jaffa: yeah; it has the potential to become complex	21:28
javispedro	I didn't...	21:28
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mece	javispedro: It's never too late to play nethack	21:29
* Arkenoi feels like i need an extended battery, n900 does not seem to last longer than one day of not-so-active use		21:29
RST38h	javis: Actually, Diablo too (the game not the OS)	21:29
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RST38h	Arkenoi: that is correct	21:29
* javispedro never played Diablo either.		21:29
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: You're regularly more than a day from a power socket?	21:29
mece	javispedro: What DID you play??	21:30
javispedro	SimCity.	21:30
Arkenoi	speedevil, sometimes. if it had a standard miniUSB..	21:30
RST38h	Arkenoi: If it is any consolation, iPhone does the same :(	21:30
Arkenoi	for e90 i purchased huge and ugly 3.6A*H battery	21:31
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: why not carry an adaptor?	21:31
Arkenoi	speedevil, it is not handy. having one in the pocket is quite annoying	21:31
RST38h	Arkenoi: It will probably take 4-6 months for something like this to appear for N900, from Mugen	21:31
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Oli``	What is the USB plug format? Is it standard or something Nokia made up?	21:32
RST38h	You do not need an adaptor. I plug mine into my work PC at work.	21:32
mece	Oli``: It's micro-USB	21:32
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Lorthirk	ok, dinner is done for today	21:33
RST38h	Get yourself a USB cable and keep it at work. It solves the problem of running out of power.	21:33
kalikianatoli	there was a cable in the package even	21:33
kalikianatoli	you don't need to buy one	21:33
Lorthirk	instead, i think i fried my ac charger	21:33
Lorthirk	it doesn't work anymore :!	21:33
kalikianatoli	bon appetit	21:34
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javispedro	but at 500mA does it charge or discharge ? ;)	21:34
Oli``	mece: does anything else use it? I mean I've got cameras, phones, tomtoms more cameras... most very modern - and none of them have that adapter. Some have similar ones but they're not quite right	21:34
* Arkenoi has no job and no workplace ;~( so it is completely unpredictable how i am gonna spend the day and where to get charger :-(		21:34
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kalikianatoli	Oli``, other mobile phones do	21:34
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johnsq	Hi	21:35
RST38h	It will work through the day, so the cable is mostly for mental piece :)	21:35
RST38h	s/piece/peace	21:35
mece	Oli``: Well it is a standard. I have some small crap that uses micro USB. A bluetooth headset has a microUSB connectod for some reason.	21:35
Oli``	I'm sure it's a matter of time... It's a shame people can't settle on one format.	21:35
Oli``	mece: random!	21:35
Lorthirk	www.maemodevcentral.net, how does it sound for a maemo programming blog?	21:35
mece	Oli``: Indeed.	21:35
mece	Lorthirk: Sounds pimp	21:36
kalikianatoli	mece, and it's not used for loading?	21:36
kalikianatoli	*charging	21:36
mece	Kalikianatoli: yes for charging, and some other stuff that I never bother with. There is some software I think, but I've lost the cd.	21:36
Arkenoi	rst38h, if you leave home at the morning and forgot to charge it to 100%, and then you spend all the day someplace with no charger, and use casual navigation and IM all the way, you are likely to run out of battery	21:36
kalikianatoli	mece, so it's not random but very useful. at least I would love if everything charged via usb	21:37
Oli``	While I'm rabbitting on about chargers, has anybody used their old-to-microusb adapter and noticed it getting really hot? If you have and it's not getting hot, is mine faulty?	21:37
Lorthirk	mece: you think?	21:37
Lorthirk	ok, now i just need to build some knowledge to put in there :D	21:37
Oli``	kalikianatoli: as long as they were the same USB plug >_<	21:37
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mece	Lorthirk: Well it's an old thing, and there was a cd and a cable with it. I never needed it because it did what it was supposed to do without it.	21:37
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Lorthirk	mece i was talking about the blog :D	21:38
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kalikianatoli	Oli``, Two kinds of USB are still better than proprietary chargers	21:38
mece	Lorthirk: LOL ok that makes much more sense. Yes I think it sounds quite professional.	21:38
Lorthirk	great	21:38
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Arkenoi	well, the old time "thick" nokia charger was so widespread for awhile you could expect it anywhere	21:39
Lorthirk	i think i'm gonna register it as soon as i am convinced with this project	21:39
Arkenoi	you walk into any cafe and ask them if they have "nokia charger" and they probably do	21:39
Arkenoi	if you have "thick to thin" converter you may still have some luck these days	21:40
edgar2	those were the days.	21:40
mece	edgar2!	21:40
edgar2	:)	21:40
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qwerty12_N900	Stop it. This touching reunion is making me cry.	21:41
Lorthirk	if we were in italy i'd say "carramba che sorpresa!"	21:41
Lorthirk	but it's good we are not, believe me	21:41
Arkenoi	no luck with google sync. well, as the phone is my main PIM i may probably live without it until it will be fixed, nothing really urgent	21:42
mece	qwerty12_N900: which reunion? The chargers?	21:42
qwerty12_N900	mece: Yours and edgar2's	21:42
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edgar2	it's ok, you can cry now.	21:43
mece	qwerty12_N900: I actually had lunch with him today, and haven't seen him since! So it's pretty emotional.	21:43
Lorthirk	8 hours of empty and dark lives	21:43
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pwannell	whos mic is faulty	21:44
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edgar2	this is how dark it is. http://share.ovi.com/media/edgar.public/edgar.10045	21:45
Lorthirk	wow. that's a new concept of dark.	21:45
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edgar2	taken from my window view 30 sec ago. with the n900 of course :)	21:45
RST38h	Arkenoi: BTW you can use Google Calendar directly	21:46
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Lorthirk	RST38h: how?	21:48
RST38h	Lorthirk: Use Google Mobile Calendar URL for Android/iPhone. Works beautifully on N900	21:48
Lorthirk	there's an app, too...	21:49
mece	I guess the none mobile one works too.	21:49
Lorthirk	gpe calendar	21:49
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Arkenoi	too bad there is no Latitude and Google maps. Builtin "location sharing" is a) incompatible and b) pretty dumb and drains the battery quickly	21:51
RST38h	Arkenoi: Of course it is b), probably keeps GPS running	21:51
RST38h	Arkenoi: My guess is someone will eventually take care of it though	21:52
Arkenoi	latitude is smart	21:52
javispedro	in what sense?	21:52
RST38h	Arkenoi: That Google sync, are you syncing calendar alone or calendar+contacts?	21:52
Arkenoi	i walk with latitude on all the day and it powers gps on for just a brief periods of time	21:52
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javispedro	the brief period is the warm startup time.	21:53
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javispedro	so it all depends on "how often"...	21:53
RST38h	it may use cell info as well	21:53
Arkenoi	rst38h: i tried both, the same symptoms: it runs progress bar until a certain position, then it is stuck, then there is disconnect after some minutes	21:53
RST38h	and probably does	21:53
RST38h	Arkenoi: How big is your calendar?	21:54
Lorthirk	i have problems with google too	21:54
Lorthirk	and other italian people i heard on a forum	21:54
Lorthirk	i think it's something on google's side	21:54
Arkenoi	not really big. contacts are quite big (you've probably noticed that)	21:54
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Arkenoi	javis: they found a reasonable solution so i have both semi-accurate location info and my battery does not drain fast	21:55
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javispedro	there's not much to do here.	21:56
toggles_w	you can also get rough gps from the gsm modem without waking the gps, so if you don't need accuracy you can just use the towers	21:56
toggles_w	at least, thats how the jme worked years back	21:57
Arkenoi	funny thing is that if i set "district level" it still runs gps constantly even though it does not need it at all to get position that rough	21:57
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toggles_w	yeah, shouldn't do.. but i haven't looked at the api to know	21:58
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RST38h	Arkenoi: Well, it managed the contacts	21:58
RST38h	Arkenoi: On the calendar problem, I suggest you do some debugging on it and submit a bug	21:58
RST38h	Arkenoi: It is bugs.maemo.org	21:58
Arkenoi	rst38h: there is almost no fine trace :-(	21:58
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Arkenoi	no diagnostic messages at all	21:59
RST38h	Arkenoi: There is strace for N900	21:59
RST38h	Arkenoi: You can get at least that	21:59
RST38h	Arkenoi: Also, if you start the sync process from command line, it will most likely print a few things to stdout/stderr	21:59
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RST38h	Arkenoi: That is the nice part about it - inside it is pretty much a generic Linux	22:00
Arkenoi	what is the program i need to run and parameters?	22:00
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RST38h	Good question, I do not know :) But let us find out	22:01
RST38h	btw, could you run "df" from xterm and tell how much space is left on / ?	22:01
Oli``	When Maemo 6+ come out, do you think it'll be possible to upgrade the N900?	22:03
* Arkenoi wonders how long will it take for google to make google maps maemo port		22:03
Arkenoi	btw is there j2me vm for n900?	22:03
RST38h	Gnuite may be working on it right now =)	22:03
kalikianatoli	Arkenoi, try emerillon	22:03
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RST38h	Arkenoi: Better yet, install eCoach, it should satisfy most mapping needs, but not navigation	22:04
Lorthirk	Oli``: we all really hope i think :)	22:04
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Lorthirk	RST38h: i ran df on my device too... but i found it strange: which line should be relative to the mass storage?	22:05
kalikianatoli	Oli``, even if not, there will be Mer, just like it is there for the N800 now	22:05
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Oli``	kalikianatoli: there'll be what? What's Mer?	22:06
kalikianatoli	Oli``, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer	22:06
kalikianatoli	basically an alternative distro for Maemo	22:06
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Arkenoi	rst38h: i am quite satisfied with mapping but i need latitude, that's why i am waiting for official google map application	22:07
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* Stskeeps pokes fleenode		22:08
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kalikianatoli	not yay for netsplit	22:08
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RST38h	Arkenoi: Let us hope it arrives...	22:08
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RST38h	In the meanwhile, I am trying calendar sync to see what executable you need to strace	22:08
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* lbt applauds RST38h		22:10
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Lorthirk	splitty evening, huh	22:11
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RST38h	Arkenoi: sync ran for me, did not hang	22:14
RST38h	Seems to do it through a dbus call	22:14
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RST38h	Arkenoi: Fiddle with settings a little bit, set it up as follows:	22:16
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* Lorthirk listens carefully		22:16
RST38h	Exchange server: m.google.com \| Email: arkenoi@gmail.com \| user: arkenoi@gmail.com \| Password: <your password>	22:16
RST38h	Domain: <empty> \| Port: 443 \| Secure connection: YES	22:17
Lorthirk	RST38h: same username and email address?	22:17
RST38h	Yes	22:17
RST38h	It hangs if not	22:17
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RST38h	Arkenoi: Disable all sync except for Calendar. Make sure that your / is not 100% full. Then click on "Sync manually" and see what happens	22:18
Shapeshifter	Quite a few DOA devices, at least if you believe the forums. >.>	22:18
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* RST38h stopped believing the forums about 1 month ago		22:19
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__jack1010	i get "no hash entry in release file" when i try to add the extras-devel repositories. is that correct ?	22:19
RST38h	Ah here he is!	22:19
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: There he was	22:19
RST38h	He knew what was coming...	22:19
Lorthirk	RST38h: you mean for first sync?	22:20
Lorthirk	i should only check calendar?	22:20
RST38h	For all syncs, afaik	22:20
Arkenoi	rst38: done exactly that, will try again now	22:21
RST38h	You should only check Calendar because this is what I have done and it worked. Have not tested the rest.	22:21
RST38h	Arkenoi: Notice the username - it has to be the same as email address, with @gmail.com	22:21
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RST38h	Arkenoi: I made this mistake first and it hung, then timed out after a few minutes	22:21
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Lorthirk	RST38h: i did that too, let me check now with full username	22:21
Arkenoi	yep, it was the same i am pretty sure	22:22
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Arkenoi	same thing - progress bar goes to almost 100% and sticks there :-(	22:24
RST38h	wait then	22:24
Arkenoi	i set conflict resolution to "device has priority"	22:24
RST38h	change to server has priority	22:25
Arkenoi	i am afraid it will damage my local data	22:26
Arkenoi	well, will try anyways.	22:26
pupnik	http://www.slate.com/id/2236146/pagenum/all/ The REAL Price of Trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed	22:26
RST38h	back it up :)	22:26
AakashPatel	Oh god he's everywehre	22:26
pupnik	the price of this trial is that the us governmewnt can torture you and then use the confessions in your trial. Goodbye civlization.	22:27
pupnik	was fun	22:27
Arkenoi	"Exchange server is not responding"	22:27
Arkenoi	well, will back up the calendar and try "server has priority" now	22:27
RST38h	pupnik: What if he gets BAD defense attorneys?	22:28
RST38h	Arkenoi: I greatly suspect you are doing something wrong	22:29
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RST38h	Arkenoi: are you firewalled by any chance? Is port 443 open?	22:30
Arkenoi	sure yes	22:30
Arkenoi	and it works until progress bar reaches almost 100%	22:30
crashanddie__	Arkenoi, which options did you select?	22:30
crashanddie__	Arkenoi, email as well as contacts and calendar?	22:30
Arkenoi	no error diagnostics until then	22:30
RST38h	Arkenoi: Would you try this over GPRS?	22:30
Arkenoi	nope, just calendar this time	22:30
Lorthirk	well, RST38h and Arkenoi, i'm pleased to announce that it worked for me	22:30
Arkenoi	ok, will try	22:31
Lorthirk	synced contacts, mails and calendar	22:31
RST38h	It worked for me as well, after the first try	22:31
mece	pupnik: who cares about KSM when katee sackhoff was in the latest tbbt!	22:31
Arkenoi	changing conflict resolution did not help	22:31
RST38h	Weird	22:31
__jack1010	This all only applies to EX2007 right ? Still no fix for EX2003 initial sync ?	22:31
crashanddie__	__jack1010, correct	22:32
Arkenoi	maybe there is something in my calendar that google does not like :-(	22:32
crashanddie__	Arkenoi, which software version are you running?	22:32
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__jack1010	i'm trying to add extras-devel, but got a 'no hash entry in release file' error.	22:34
Arkenoi	42-11	22:34
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Lorthirk	i think, however, that a dedicated app for google calendar should be useful	22:35
Lorthirk	with multiple calendars sync and so on	22:35
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KenYoung	Can anyone point me to a page giving instructions on how to configure an N900 so that one may remotely log INTO it from another machine, using ssh?	22:36
Lorthirk	KenYoung: i think you just need openssh server	22:38
Klowner	KenYoung: install openssh-server I would assume	22:38
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Lorthirk	wow, i gave the correct answer! :D	22:40
qwerty12_N900	~fine Lorthirk	22:41
* infobot requires Lorthirk to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies		22:41
Klowner	Lorthirk: are you right? :)	22:41
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Lorthirk	well i told the same thing you did	22:41
Klowner	we could both be equally wrong	22:42
Lorthirk	and yes, i'm heading over the kitchen	22:42
crashanddie__	KenYoung, You've got two options, dropbear or openssh. Dropbear is more a lightweight, embedded device-oriented SSH server	22:42
KenYoung	Lorthirk, I've installed openssh server and client, does that mean anyone who happens to know the IP address of my phone can log in as the default user?	22:42
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Lorthirk	well, if on n900 there's a default user/pass combination, then yes	22:42
crashanddie__	KenYoung, http://wiki.maemo.org/SSH	22:43
Lorthirk	(i don't if there's any, like mobile/alpine on iphone)	22:43
KenYoung	crashanddie__, Yeah, I went with openssh, because dropbear doesn't support X11 forwarding (at least the last time I tried it).	22:43
crashanddie__	KenYoung, I didn't get X11 forwarding to work on the N900 using openssh either	22:43
Arkenoi	now trying over gprs, exactly the same thing	22:43
mece	you can just add a user if you want..	22:43
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crashanddie__	Lorthirk, username "user", no password set, same for root	22:44
crashanddie__	Lorthirk, thus, you can't login unless you specifically set a password for either	22:44
crashanddie__	or what mece said	22:45
Lorthirk	ok	22:45
Lorthirk	i see on wiki that there's some rsa magick you can use too...	22:45
Lorthirk	well	22:45
kalikianatoli	Hm.... "Package libsoup2.4-1 provides binary package libsoup2.4-1 which is also available on the device"	22:45
kalikianatoli	Seems I'm screwed	22:45
qwerty12_N900	kalikianatoli: Ooh, this Midori?	22:45
kalikianatoli	qwerty12_N900, It should be, if I overcome the build failure :)	22:46
Lorthirk	since i have to wake up tomorrow, i'm wishing you goodnigh (or good-whatever-you-want according to your timezone)	22:46
Lorthirk	see you :)	22:46
crashanddie__	Lorthirk, certs are highly not-magic ;)	22:46
qwerty12_N900	kalikianatoli: Heh, nice :)	22:46
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crashanddie__	Lorthirk, and highly non-RSA as well	22:46
kalikianatoli	qwerty12_N900, any idea if/ how I can solve this conflict? it seems unlike dpkg, the bot doesn't want to update libsoup	22:46
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crashanddie__	kalikianatoli, try libvegetables instead?	22:47
Lorthirk	Back on the remote *NIX computer run the following command:	22:47
Lorthirk	ssh-keygen -t rsa	22:47
Lorthirk	i was talking about this, basically :)	22:47
kalikianatoli	crashanddie__, but then the filenames will conflict	22:47
Lorthirk	see you tomorrow guys	22:47
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crashanddie__	I may have grown up with technology	22:48
crashanddie__	but the other day I discovered my ps3 booted up when you turned on one of the controllers	22:48
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crashanddie__	and was the happiest kid in the block	22:48
qwerty12_N900	kalikianatoli: No idea, sorry	22:48
qwerty12_N900	Looks like this is one of X-Fade's own checks :)	22:49
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qwerty12_N900	Which makes sense, actually, if you read the last parts of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32734	22:50
Arkenoi	there is one s60 application i miss on maemo, spb brain evolution	22:51
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Khertan	Hi again ...	22:51
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Khertan	How did you do to promote packages from extras-devel to testing ?	22:51
Khertan	is there only the web interface ?	22:52
kalikianatoli	qwerty12_N900, Thanks. I suppose there is a point	22:52
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jhford	is there a facility similar to ps -eo args,rss on maemo?	22:53
* jhford is trying to figure out RSS of a running process		22:53
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* Khertan is trying to use maemo.org/packages ... it s slow ... php 30s execution limit ... yeah ...		22:56
Khertan	how can we expect users to votes for applications with a so slow thigns	22:57
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hexa	jhford, try cat /proc/<pid>/status ?	22:59
jhford	hexa: thanks :)	23:00
* Khertan will create his own repository ... will be easiest for everyone !		23:00
madmikeuk	i will probably get shot for asking, but is this supposed mic problem widespread or fairly isolated?	23:01
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crashanddie__	madmikeuk, I think you should rename to "mad-mic-uk"	23:02
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crashanddie__	madmikeuk, the mic issue seems to come from a batch delivered to the UK	23:02
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julianoliver	madmikeuk: mine is fine.	23:02
mece	how many have actually reported it?	23:02
madmikeuk	have to hope the one i get wasn't in the dodgy batch then	23:02
madmikeuk	i'm not sure, hence the asking	23:03
mece	I just saw that nuknuk on tmo had the problem. The only one I know of.	23:03
mece	haven't been following today though.	23:03
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madmikeuk	it's hard to differentiate between a majority and a vocal minority	23:03
mece	precisely. I'm thinking it's one or two devices.	23:04
qwerty12_N900	Will this become the next epidemic, like H1N1?	23:04
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madmikeuk	problems i've seen so far are serveral reporting mic failures, some reports of spontanous power cycling and a DOA screen	23:05
madmikeuk	main reason the mic and reboot threads are so massive is because the same people are reiterating their problems though	23:05
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javispedro	and it doesn't scroll smootly!	23:06
* suihkulokki is begining to wonder what is the value of tmo..		23:06
SpeedEvil	42	23:06
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Khertan	Error 500 maemo.org Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:06:37 +0200 Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) PHP/5.2.0-8+etch13 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c Midgard/8.09.4	23:06
Stskeeps	in advertisment? probably a lot :P	23:06
Khertan	grrrr	23:06
javispedro	I have to wonder..	23:07
mece	Shit! Ronnie James Dio has stomach cancer!	23:07
madmikeuk	if i'm honest, the browser isn't the biggest draw for me	23:07
julianoliver	javispedro: seems to be ok here, though apparently a firmware upgrade improves things.	23:07
mece	err. sorry wrong window.	23:07
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julianoliver	scrolling seems smoother than on Android devices i've seen, admittedly only HTC's offerings.	23:08
julianoliver	iPhone has smoother scrolling indeed, however browser and media playback seems much better on the N900.	23:08
javispedro	I was being ironic, what do you think I am, a stereotypical tmo poster?	23:09
javispedro	;)	23:09
qwerty12_N900	Wow. You just took the words right out of my mouth	23:09
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admiral0	hi	23:10
madmikeuk	hello.	23:10
julianoliver	seems i dropped in a little late. i'll pull down my Literal Reading Fader.	23:10
admiral0	is the n900 kernel entirely open?	23:10
mece	hehehe sarcasm translates poorly sometimes :)	23:10
Stskeeps	admiral0: yes	23:10
julianoliver	mece: no, really?	23:11
RST38h	translates well with cackling	23:11
* RST38h cackles evilly		23:11
madmikeuk	ianal, but it'd be illegal not to iirc	23:11
admiral0	where can i find sources?(no debsrc please)	23:11
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madmikeuk	though i'd imagine a few of the kmods are closed	23:11
Stskeeps	admiral0: repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0 , package is 'kernel'	23:11
Stskeeps	no, they're all open, afaik	23:12
madmikeuk	interesting	23:12
javispedro	hm..	23:12
mece	Julianoliver: case and point	23:12
javispedro	Since Qgil said that maemo.org is the place "for those willing to get involved in an open source community way",	23:12
madmikeuk	you know, i'm sure i've heard of you before stskeeps	23:12
julianoliver	mece: ;)	23:12
javispedro	can we dump everyone on those tmo threads already? :)	23:12
madmikeuk	but not around maemo	23:12
pwannell	madmikeuk could i ask what serial number ur phone is on?	23:12
madmikeuk	i've not got mine yet.	23:12
pwannell	agh ok	23:12
admiral0	Stskeeps:no other source, i just hate unpacking debs	23:13
mece	pwannell: trying to find a pattern?	23:13
admiral0	?	23:13
Stskeeps	admiral0: it's .dsc, .diff.gz and .tar.gz	23:13
pwannell	julianoliver could i please ask what ur serial number is on n900 to find out if there is pattern with serials	23:13
Stskeeps	how difficult can it be? :P	23:13
pwannell	yes mece :)	23:13
Stskeeps	madmikeuk: if it is anything to deal with IRCd, it wasn't me	23:13
RST38h	javispedro: dump'em where?	23:13
admiral0	i am a more minimalist guy : tar.gz is the way	23:13
javispedro	RST38h: Ovi.	23:14
madmikeuk	hahaha, just a name coincidence then?	23:14
admiral0	kiss principle :P	23:14
javispedro	let's create a brainstorm item for "Ovi Talk"	23:14
mece	aahaha!	23:14
RST38h	javispedro: can we use large bodies of water instead?	23:14
madmikeuk	nokia messenger uses telepathy, right?	23:14
archebyte	I thought its the kernel modules that are closed.	23:14
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javispedro	since Ovi is "the face for "everybody" (default destination)"	23:14
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admiral0	madmikeuk, yep and i saw python sucking 30%+ CPU	23:15
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Stskeeps	archebyte: no, kernel is fully open as far as i can tell	23:15
archebyte	Like g_nokia..	23:15
admiral0	other 35% was sucked by pulseaudio	23:15
admiral0	and then choppy audio -.-	23:15
mece	yeah pulseaudio hogs like crazy	23:15
mece	35% is not cool for mp3 playback imo.	23:16
qwerty12_N900	archebyte: http://gitorious.org/usb/usb/commit/06b7c22af0c49db1ed487617eb797d9fdd6bf38a	23:16
admiral0	not for mp3	23:16
admiral0	for talking fin skype	23:16
mece	admiral0: for what then?	23:16
mece	k.	23:16
SpeedEvil	Is this 35% at 100% CPU speed though	23:16
SpeedEvil	Or is it 35% clocked down to xMHz	23:16
madmikeuk	gtalk call?	23:16
madmikeuk	oh skype	23:16
madmikeuk	close.	23:16
admiral0	never tried	23:16
mece	is 600Mhz full speed?	23:16
madmikeuk	iirc	23:16
archebyte	@Qwerty @stskeeps tks. Checking it out..	23:16
javispedro	#include "composite.c" aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh	23:17
admiral0	SpeedEvil, doesn't count, as long as you get crappy audio	23:17
archebyte	Thats cool to know its fully open..	23:17
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julianoliver	pwannell: i have the box here.. i don't see an SN/ but rather the IMEI.	23:17
archebyte	C yall..	23:17
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pwannell	same thing mate	23:18
pwannell	:S	23:18
julianoliver	thought so..	23:18
* AakashPatel watches the maemo sdk install		23:18
AakashPatel	:0	23:18
pwannell	obv only if u wanna disclose	23:18
julianoliver	will pm	23:18
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pwannell	ok	23:20
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madmikeuk	n900 owners: how's the audio quality through the 3.5mm?	23:21
julianoliver	madmikeuk: incredible.	23:21
mece	here's what was said regarding pulse:	23:21
mece	lardman: mece1: between them, mafw-dbus-* and pulseaudio use ~20-25% CPU	23:21
mece	lardman: hmm is at 600MHz anyway	23:21
julianoliver	it has a brilliant preamp	23:21
Khertan	madmikeuk: Incredibly good	23:21
* Klowner attacks julianoliver and takes his n900		23:21
madmikeuk	fantastic	23:21
lbt	pretty good - not loud	23:21
julianoliver	no it's really a new thing coming out of any device this size. you can safely believe the reviews.	23:21
madmikeuk	can't wait to replace my tired out n73 and it's annoying nonstandard pop-port	23:22
Khertan	but ... the default in ear headset have a low sound level on the right	23:22
pwannell	np with pm julianoliver	23:22
madmikeuk	lbt: judging by my experience, that's generally true of most nokia phones	23:22
lbt	Khertan: wash that ear...	23:22
frals	9 pages of unread topics on talk.. whats the chance i missed anything useful while drowning in java? :P	23:22
julianoliver	madmikeuk: the headphones it ships with are really quite good also. great low end response.	23:22
Khertan	but with my seinheiser headset the sound is clear ...	23:22
Khertan	good ...	23:22
julianoliver	pwannell: i just did	23:22
Khertan	and can be loud	23:22
madmikeuk	can you give it a bit of a boost through alsamixer anyhow?	23:23
Khertan	it s a good headset ... and i never get a so good sound with it with many other device.	23:23
julianoliver	madmikeuk: overall the media handling and reproduction is really good. video looks really impressive.	23:23
Arkenoi	and sure after failed sync attempt i got tons of duplicate addressbook entries	23:23
Arkenoi	i was almost sure that will happen	23:23
RST38h	why did you let it sync address book?	23:24
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xorAxAx	is the maps app on n900 better than the one on n810?	23:24
xorAxAx	does it have as much maps?	23:24
madmikeuk	i'm not going to bother trying to sync my IMAP inbox, i'm horrible at mantaining things	23:24
RST38h	but, as you have done it already, try syncing calendar or address book separately	23:24
xorAxAx	i read that it is quite slow	23:24
RST38h	see which one hangs	23:24
madmikeuk	long story short: most desktop clients hang trying to download my headers	23:25
pupnik	if we could only have ease of python and speed of c	23:25
pupnik	can we compile python to c-hildon?	23:25
julianoliver	pupnik: py++ or pypy may save us there.	23:25
julianoliver	xorAxAx: i think the maps application is a weak point.	23:25
xorAxAx	pypy does not compile python to C	23:26
madmikeuk	pypy is a python interpreter in python.	23:26
xorAxAx	julianoliver: is it really worse?	23:26
julianoliver	xorAxAx: i don't know, i never played with the 810.	23:26
pupnik	what else could be done to translate to natice hildon programmatically.	23:26
madmikeuk	c++ module?	23:26
xorAxAx	julianoliver: it was smooth, the app. and it could locate addresses	23:27
pupnik	hmm how madmikeuk	23:27
bitcrusher	how does one catch the input from touching the screen in python/pygame on the N900? any code examples?	23:27
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Arkenoi	rst38h: that was before i tried to sync calendar	23:28
julianoliver	xorAxAx: madmikeuk you're right. i mixed it up with another py++ like project. i don't recall it's name.	23:28
Arkenoi	both do.	23:28
RST38h	oh	23:28
madmikeuk	pupnik: i don't write C++ modules for python my self, but pygtk and pygobject are both c++ modules	23:28
xorAxAx	but pypy has a jit	23:28
xorAxAx	which is becoming faster every 2-3 weeks	23:28
sjaensch	bitcrusher: I have no experience with pygame, but usually touching the screen equals mouse click	23:28
madmikeuk	sorry, that was directed at julianoliver	23:28
bitcrusher	sounds logical	23:28
julianoliver	madmikeuk: i've only played around with JIT compilers like Psyco and at one point PyPy, if i remember correctly.	23:30
madmikeuk	anyway, since hildon is an extension of gtk, i'd imagine you could base it on pygtk	23:30
xorAxAx	julianoliver: so, is the mapping app on n900 usable?	23:30
julianoliver	madmikeuk: Psyco is good for speeding up big iterations and number crunching.	23:31
madmikeuk	julianoliver: not played with pypy myself, but i've tried psyco and unladen swallow	23:31
xorAxAx	unladen swallow is much slower than pypy's jit currently (see morepypy.blogspot.com )	23:31
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julianoliver	xorAxAx: i was in Amsterdam a few days ago, trying to use it, and gave up after a few minutes. it was far too slow, at least over Vodafone's internet offering.	23:32
madmikeuk	the jit is pretty slow, i tried running the django test server as a test	23:32
madmikeuk	took about 3-4 minutes to load up	23:32
madmikeuk	using -j always	23:32
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madmikeuk	once it cached the code it was pretty fast though	23:33
xorAxAx	julianoliver: it cannot download the map data at once?	23:33
julianoliver	yeah. makes sense.	23:33
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xorAxAx	in the n810 app, you can download map data for regions	23:33
julianoliver	xorAxAx: i just remember searching and scrolling/zooming being relatively useless.	23:33
xorAxAx	and then you have it locally	23:33
xorAxAx	can somebody confirm this?	23:33
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xorAxAx	i dont want to have internet enabled for mapping	23:34
julianoliver	xorAxAx: i think it's early days yet. i feel it's very beta.	23:34
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: do you know if the mapping app can download the mapdata in advance?	23:34
madmikeuk	xorAxAx: from what i've heard (not first time) it's very hard to get a lock on without a-gps	23:34
madmikeuk	*not first hand	23:35
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: maemo mapper	23:35
julianoliver	yes getting that GPS lock took a long time also. perhaps a minute or two.	23:35
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: no, not maemo mapper :)	23:35
timeless_mbp	or ovi maps using the Windows Nokia Map Downloader	23:35
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: ovi maps	23:35
timeless_mbp	^^	23:35
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: so there is a way to get offline map data?	23:35
timeless_mbp	i should say "in theory"	23:35
timeless_mbp	yes	23:35
timeless_mbp	a number of ways	23:35
timeless_mbp	the device comes w/ data pre cached for your region	23:36
xorAxAx	none of them official? :)	23:36
timeless_mbp	e.g. a USA purchased device comes with maps for the whole USA	23:36
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timeless_mbp	<timeless_mbp 1 minute ago> or ovi maps using the Windows Nokia Map Downloader	23:36
timeless_mbp	that's the official way	23:36
* timeless_mbp grumbles		23:36
timeless_mbp	do me a favor and actually read all of what i write, don't be selective	23:37
ShadowJK	looks like my operator is getting 3G to me before Nokia is delivering N900 to me :-)	23:37
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: i read that, you didnt say that it is official, before	23:38
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madmikeuk	is voda uk's 3g net limited to 7.2mbps?	23:38
ShadowJK	the glorious 3G, my E75's 1000mAh battery lasted 6 hours today..	23:38
* ShadowJK refreshes mugen power website hoping for batteries		23:38
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: do you like the n810 maps app or the n900 ovi one better?	23:39
timeless_mbp	the n810 app	23:40
xorAxAx	why?	23:40
* julianoliver thinks sb-conf select is pretty nifty.		23:40
timeless_mbp	because it doesn't negatively affect the browser	23:40
xorAxAx	how is the browser affected?	23:40
timeless_mbp	the ovi maps app is built around the browser	23:40
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KenYoung	Is there anyone online who can successfully ssh into their N900 from another machine, and who has time to answer a few questions?	23:40
kalikianatoli	yes	23:40
timeless_mbp	and the idiots who wrote a piece of it used an ancient obsolete api	23:40
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timeless_mbp	(one that had been deprecated for roughly 5 years)	23:41
KenYoung	kalikianatoli, Was that yes directed to me?	23:41
kalikianatoli	KenYoung, yes :)	23:41
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timeless_mbp	because of that, the browser team couldn't update the browser for some service release	23:41
timeless_mbp	because the updated browser dropped the api they should never have used	23:42
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xorAxAx	how have they solved it nowadays? do they still ship an old browser?	23:42
timeless_mbp	ayup	23:42
timeless_mbp	they=we	23:42
KenYoung	kalikianatoli, Thanks! I've installed openssh server & client, but I cannot log in from a remote machine using either ssh user@{device IP} or ssh root@{device IP}.	23:42
xorAxAx	and which one do you like better from a user POV?	23:42
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madmikeuk	does fennec have flash on the n900?	23:43
julianoliver	KenYoung: it works fine here. can you ping it?	23:43
timeless_mbp	madmikeuk: define 'have'	23:43
timeless_mbp	fennec can 'use' system flash	23:43
KenYoung	kalikianatoli, Do I need to do something like modify /etc/ssh/ssh_config to enable remote logings. I can see ssh -D is running.	23:43
timeless_mbp	but the perf last i heard sucked	23:43
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: see above	23:43
madmikeuk	usable in browser	23:43
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: i'm thinking	23:43
madmikeuk	righto.	23:43
kalikianatoli	KenYoung, no. it should just work	23:43
KenYoung	julianoliver, I can't even ping it. Another strange thing is that the IP address reported by ifconfig does not seem to be correct.	23:44
timeless_mbp	(actually, i'm watching blade)	23:44
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: so, the n810 maps app let you buy navigation	23:44
kalikianatoli	KenYoung, install the IP desktop widget :-)	23:44
KenYoung	kalikianatoli, I suspect ifconfig gives me the wrong IP address, is there a better way to find my IP address?	23:44
timeless_mbp	if you want navigation, then of the two, only that one had it	23:44
kalikianatoli	KenYoung, Yes, I am reading your mind :-)	23:44
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xorAxAx	oh, i though the n900 ovi one would have navigation	23:45
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timeless_mbp	was it listed on the box?	23:45
julianoliver	KenYoung: i doubt ifconfig is giving you the wrong address. are you sure?	23:45
ShadowJK	nope, it wasn't listed :)	23:45
KenYoung	kalikianatoli, Where does one find the IP desktop widget?	23:45
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: ovi maps can give you directions	23:45
timeless_mbp	but that's not the same as navation	23:45
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: isnt that like navigation?	23:45
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xorAxAx	it cant match the way points with your current position?	23:45
timeless_mbp	"like", yes, but NOT REALLY	23:46
timeless_mbp	it doesn't say "turn right NOW"	23:46
kalikianatoli	KenYoung, Should be in the Desktop category	23:46
julianoliver	KenYoung: on the remote box type 'nmap -sP 192.168.1.*' and look for it. (assuming you're on a 192.168.1.255 nework.	23:46
timeless_mbp	or "turn in 5m"	23:46
xorAxAx	but? :)	23:46
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ShadowJK	Somehow I get the idea this whole ovi maps thing is a bad idea, I hope Nokia Maps doesn't die :)	23:46
KenYoung	julianoliver, It sure looks like it's giving me the wrong address. When I go to a webstire that will report my IP to me, if gives a different number, and when I do a client ssh from my N900 to another machine, the remote machine reports my IP to be different than what ifconfig gives me.	23:46
xorAxAx	KenYoung: sounds like multiple IP disorder	23:47
julianoliver	KenYoung: a website will give you an external, internet-side address.	23:47
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: nokia maps is dead	23:47
julianoliver	xorAxAx: hehe	23:47
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, aw :(	23:47
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ShadowJK	xorAxAx, or then he's behind NAT	23:47
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: roughly, ovi is just branding	23:47
xorAxAx	is there a maemo mapper for maemo 5?	23:47
KenYoung	julianoliver, But that's what I want in order to use a desktop machine to log into the N900, isn't it?	23:47
timeless_mbp	but it's basically Nokia Foo v. N + 1 = Ovi Foo v1	23:47
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: afaiu maemo-mapper is open source	23:48
timeless_mbp	you can in theory build it for n900, i suppose	23:48
ShadowJK	Ah so it's just that the new version is more of a rewrite for the worse then :)	23:48
julianoliver	KenYoung: is the N900 NAT'd?	23:48
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: dunno, did nokia maps ever have useful navigation support?	23:48
ShadowJK	timeless, yep	23:48
timeless_mbp	at one point nokia shipped "Route 66" (?)	23:48
timeless_mbp	which i heard was pretty good	23:49
KenYoung	julianoliver, I'm afraid I don't even know what that means.	23:49
timeless_mbp	iirc people complained about the replacement	23:49
timeless_mbp	(nokia maps)	23:49
julianoliver	KenYoung: ok. if the N900 and the Desktop machine are on the LAN then ssh should work fine.	23:49
julianoliver	KenYoung: try pinging it from the desktop machine	23:49
KenYoung	julianoliver, No, my N900 is going over the GSM 3G network. Does that make remote logins impossible?	23:50
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julianoliver	KenYoung: ahh.. that's another kettle of fish altogether.	23:50
julianoliver	yes, that may be very tricky.	23:50
timeless_mbp	anyway, ovi maps is getting better	23:50
timeless_mbp	the versions i've seen internally are better than what's in sales	23:50
ShadowJK	timeless, what's better, Wayfinder had the address wrong Nokia Maps had the address wrong, but in the other direction. So, if I wanted to go to BlehRoad 300, when Nokia Maps said 250 and Wayfinder said 350, I knew I was close :-)	23:50
KenYoung	julianoliver, OK, maybe that's my problem. Perhaps T-mobile blocks that.	23:50
crashanddie__	KenYoung, most 3G signals give you a NAT'd address which isn't routed publicly	23:50
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: heh	23:51
julianoliver	KenYoung: highly likely it's NAT'd to hell.	23:51
crashanddie__	KenYoung, get your IP address and attempt a ping from your laptop, you'll know immediately	23:51
julianoliver	KenYoung: NAT == Network Address Translation	23:51
KenYoung	crashanddie__, julianoliver Thanks, I guess I'll try to go over a LAN then.	23:51
ShadowJK	timeless_mbp, it's pretty funny too, considering that 300 == 3000m from start of road. You'd think they'd be able to measure that better, or atleast with better consistency :)	23:51
Proteous	you can remote login if you use a reverse connection	23:51
julianoliver	KenYoung: proteus has a good point.	23:52
KenYoung	crashanddie__, I did get my IP address that way, and I did ping. No joy. So it probably is blocked by the phone company.	23:52
Proteous	have the client on your phone call out the server	23:52
KenYoung	Proteous, How do you do a revers connection?	23:52
Proteous	I've only done it with VNC	23:52
ShadowJK	Nokia Maps was slow on my old E70, and it ate all RAM. It's smooth on my E75, and the E75 isn't as memory starved..	23:53
Proteous	you can set the client up in listen mode then have the server connect to it	23:53
KenYoung	Proteous, client ssh from my N900 to my desktop works like a champ, but I have no idea how to reverse that.	23:53
Proteous	KenYoung, what are you trying to do exactly?	23:53
KenYoung	Proteous, I want to be able to log into my N900 from a desktop machine, get a shell on my N900, forward X11 to my desktop, and run code on the N900 using my nice desktop keyboard and big display.	23:54
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timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: there are ~4 sources for data/maps	23:55
timeless_mbp	ime they all suck	23:55
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timeless_mbp	but i had a similar experience w/ nokia maps v. wayfinder here in finland	23:55
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timeless_mbp	(n81 8g v. n800)	23:55
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Dantonic	I just got off the phone with a customer service rep from amazon about the N900. long conversation, I was asking about the details or re-ordering, he couldnt understand what I was asking... finally I said ok nevermind everything I've asked, it's not worth it. I said goodbye and closed my phone and started swearing "F***ING WORTHLESS!!" a few times... 20 seconds later he's like: "Sir I think you left the line open could you end the cal	23:56
Dantonic	l..." ROFL	23:56
ShadowJK	lol	23:57
Dantonic	ROFL	23:57
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madmikeuk	nice.	23:57
bitcrusher	hahaha!	23:57
timeless_mbp	Dantonic: oops	23:57
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Dantonic	I guess when I'm on speaker phone my current phone doesnt hang up when closed	23:57
Dantonic	its' a clamsheel	23:57
Dantonic	clamshell*	23:57
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timeless_mbp	that's actually fairly useful behavior fwiw	23:57
Dantonic	yeah	23:57
timeless_mbp	you don't really want to drop the call w/ that clamshell	23:57
Dantonic	just havent used it much	23:58
Dantonic	omg I'm still laughing	23:58
ShadowJK	my last clamshell had this annoying behaviour of closing IRC when I closed clamshell :-(	23:58
Dantonic	how embarassing	23:58
ShadowJK	but it still fit well in pocket when open	23:58
timeless_mbp	xorAxAx: anyway, i personally would use google maps in the browser	23:58
xorAxAx	timeless_mbp: hmm, but i dont have a flatrate	23:58
timeless_mbp	but it'd be bad for people to think i really dislike the ovi maps app	23:58
ShadowJK	it'd be kinda useable if the google maps would be cached	23:59
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: it should be cachable	23:59
ShadowJK	timeless, the data maybe but probably not the roundtrip?	23:59
timeless_mbp	you have to enable disk cache (it's off by default but you can configure it)	23:59
timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: right	23:59
madmikeuk	xorAxAx: apparently gps can't lock on well without pulling down the AGPS directory over the net anyway	23:59
timeless_mbp	well, which roundtrip?	23:59
timeless_mbp	yeah, you're generally going to want to use AGPS	23:59

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