IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-11-23

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paroneayeaGeneralAntilles: so is this the way to go for mapping the keyboard?
GeneralAntillesI unsubbed from -users at least 18 months ago, so I dunno. ;)00:01
* GeneralAntilles recommends avoiding that particular list.00:02
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* GeneralAntilles waits for the page to load.00:02
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paroneayeayeah, I could see that being quite noisy00:02
GeneralAntillesThere's a lot of Android and iPhone people on there, too. ;)00:03
timeless_mbpoh, that's helpful00:03
timeless_mbpdo i want to know why they're on there?00:03
GeneralAntillesAs a side note, is getting a server upgrade RSN.00:03
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, why people like that insist on hanging around and trolling communities they have no reason to be a part of is a question I'd really like an answer to.00:03
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: um00:04
timeless_mbpit didn't work?00:04
timeless_mbpit kinda did00:05
timeless_mbpthat's *bad*00:05
timeless_mbpso um, that sucks00:05
timeless_mbpthe uninstall and install both warn about the reboot00:05
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qwerty12_N900You're using zenity to warn about something in a postinst? Just use maemo-confirm-text, or do what I did and just popup a HildonBanner00:06
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timeless_mbpi want to ask about rebooting00:06
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timeless_mbpi need to not do it from there00:06
timeless_mbpthe problem is...00:06
timeless_mbpi'm not really sure where to do it00:07
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timeless_mbpthere are at least 3 cases:00:07
timeless_mbp1. installing the package for the first time00:07
timeless_mbp2. uninstalling the package00:07
timeless_mbp3. using the control panel applet00:07
timeless_mbp4. upgrading the package00:07
timeless_mbpin 3, the control panel could manage to warn about the reboot00:08
timeless_mbpin 1 and 2, the package needs to do the reboot00:08
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timeless_mbpin 4, i need to offer, but only once00:09
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sp3000just put the warning in every dialog :P00:10
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sp3000ooh, I'm subscribed to -users00:12
sp300011k unread, hmm00:12
sp3000that's not working so well ;)00:12
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qwerty12_N900God/Nokia, why the hell are the default feeds in the RSS Reader Twitter ones?00:14
rangeTo show that updating works? >:)00:15
qwerty12_N900I miss BBC World News from Maemo 4 :(00:15
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qwerty12_N900(Yes, I should stop being a drama queen but I've already typed in that feed's URL 7 times now)00:16
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sp3000actually what I'm cusrious about is whether it's possible to enumerate the 1st 3rd and 4th levels in the kb mapping without touching the second00:18
* GeneralAntilles hopes that clears things up a bit.00:19
sp3000for the shift-arrows selection reason00:19
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Stskeepsoh, that's interesting00:19
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StskeepsThe next device, running Harmattan, will feature a capacitive, multi-touch, WVGA (800x480) screen. The core of Maemo 6, useful for testing, will be installable on N900, although it won't be fully functional (hardware difference).00:20
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Stskeepsnice to see they're going out of the way to provide it somehow00:23
* mgedmin wants to complain about ukeyboard 2.0-6 being non-installable00:24
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: Well, if they did not, the torrent of anti-Nokia comments would be well deserved00:24
timeless_mbpmgedmin: i already did00:24
timeless_mbpthey're going to fix it00:24
GeneralAntillesI can't believe Nokia doesn't get that dropping support every year or so isn't a good business plan.00:24
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mgedmintimeless_mbp, just to make sure, it's the "/var/lib/dpkg/info/ukeyboard.postinst: line 21: rename: not found" bug, right?00:25
timeless_mbpmy bug was the find -exec problem00:25
mgedminheh, *two* bugs, what fun!00:25
timeless_mbpthey take comments in the package promotion stuff00:25
timeless_mbpcomment there and thumbs down00:25
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: at least they're making support a hell lot easier to do.00:26
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, doesn't help end users, though.00:26
Stskeepsi doubt there'd be a m5->m6 SSU00:26
GeneralAntillesIt's just a shitty thing to do.00:26
GeneralAntillesEspecially after those comments about at least 2 rounds.00:26
GeneralAntillesA flashable image is workable.00:26
GeneralAntillesAsking people to seek out a community distribution to upgrade is not.00:26
GeneralAntillesTalk has but me in an awfully bad mood this evening.00:27
Stskeepswhy not, though? are we just admitting we're not capable? :)00:27
javispedroI doubt m5->m6 upgrade path and that post nearly confirms it.00:27
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rangeWell, reinstall would be in order, I thinl.00:27
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rangeUpgrade to 2008 required that too, didn't it?00:28
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, because it's a PR disaster.00:28
Stskeepsreally though? with all the cooked roms and such out there00:29
Stskeepsand i don't know how long time they will support fremantle. doubt it's getting dropped at PR1.1.00:29
* timeless_mbp grumbles00:29
GeneralAntillesBecause they're choosing to jettison large portions of their community for the sake of dubious "hardware" issues.00:29
GeneralAntillesThey're certainly not going to support it side-by-side.00:30
javispedro"hardware issues" --> multitouch all over the interface.00:30
* timeless_mbp curse00:30
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timeless_mbpanyone here know where the lame Hildon Yes/No dialogs are used?00:30
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, which is just inane.00:30
javispedroGeneralAntilles: not from a PR PoV.00:31
GeneralAntillesMultitouch isn't even necessary on the iPhone.00:31
timeless_mbpgan: but we're nokia00:31
* GeneralAntilles sighs.00:32
GeneralAntillesBottom of the signature.00:32
timeless_mbpwe require you to install a rose colored glasses filter to ignore our spelling of "Cuidad de México" :)00:32
javispedroCuidad de México means "take care of México"00:32
javispedroimperative form, second person plural00:32
javispedroGeneralAntilles: let them experience the feeling getting a WONTFIX in your carefully made bugreport is!00:36
javispedros/WONTFIX/Fixed in a device you may or may not buy ;)00:36
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Macergoing to install win7 on one of my boxes00:36
Maceri honestly should install debian or something on it.. but meh.. i need something that can run mediaportal00:37
Maceri should try out mythtv.. never bothered with it before00:37
Macerlast i tried it was total garbage :)00:37
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timeless_mbpjavispedro: did you see it btw?00:38
javispedrotimeless_mbp: nope00:38
javispedrocan I see that on SDK?00:38
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timeless_mbpit requires flash :)00:38
javispedroah, not on device :P00:38
tbfdo i have to register for each package i want to upload to extras-devel?00:38
timeless_mbptbf: eh?00:39
timeless_mbpbtw, does load for anyone?00:40
javispedro"Store is now closed, it opens at 0undefined:00 PM"00:40
timeless_mbpthere's a link to it from the bottom left of that page00:40
timeless_mbpjavispedro: lol00:40
GeneralAntillesOops, the travel agent put me in Barcelona 7:45 Friday morning.00:40
* GeneralAntilles is going to be tired on Friday.00:40
tbftimeless_mbp: just tried to upload a new version of glib-json, but didn't get any response from the autobuilder00:40
tbfhmm. should try the web iface00:41
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timeless_mbpi haven't used ssh in ages00:41
javispedropoor Nokia clients in S~ao Paulo00:41
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GAN900Anybody else flying out on Monday?00:45
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jaemgood morning00:46
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zerojayGAN900: lol... yeah, just saw the sig.00:48
GeneralAntilleszerojay, recalling, yet again, why I hate that place.00:50
tbftimeless_mbp: my fault. generated a bad _source.changes file00:51
timeless_mbpit didn't warn?00:51
tbftimeless_mbp: no message from dput, no mail from autobuilder00:53
tbfbut the web interface told me00:53
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* javispedro doesn't know whether to assist to the n900 presentation or first ux sessions in bcn long weekend, since there's a non nil chance I won't have touched an n900 by then.00:56
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, play with somebody's on Thursday?00:57
javispedrowhat's going on thursday?00:58
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paroneayeaGeneralAntilles: so, I can't seem to find any reference to an existing build of emacs for maemo 5, old builds seem to be for maemo 4?  Do you know where this is?00:58
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, dunno if anybody's built it for 5 yet.00:59
paroneayeaah okay00:59
GeneralAntillesHowever the 4 version SHOULD work.00:59
javispedrooh good lord.00:59
javispedroI got the XChat English spell checker working!01:00
javispedrosay goodbye to my typos.01:00
Flandry_assist is a false cognate01:00
Flandry_i always found that odd01:00
Flandry_attend is the word you want :D01:00
GeneralAntillesminus "to"01:00
javispedroFlandry_: ta!01:01
Flandry_my favorite false cognate is "embarassed"01:01
* javispedro remembers a popular ad about that one on TV.01:02
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javispedrolocal TV01:02
Flandry_assuming a significant bilingual population?01:03
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, hmm?01:03
javispedroI don't remember the details, but iirc it was aimed at the more educated layers01:03
paroneayea/ only has 250 mb alotted to it :)01:04
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paroneayeawas about to see if I could install emacs on it, probably would have used up all remaining space :)01:04
javispedrospecially I don't remember what was advertised, so it was definitely a bad ad ;P01:04
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mavhcseems to be the case with a lot of well known ads01:05
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mavhcI remember seeing an ad, about 9 years ago just before I switched to downloading tv illegally01:05
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, yeah, see /opt.01:05
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, Fremantle packages are generally designed to install to /opt (which is 2GB).01:06
paroneayeaweird, /opt doesn't show up when I run `df -h`01:06
javispedrowhats cool is how it resembles the n810 keyboard layout.... *sigh*01:07
Pavlov /opt is a symlink01:07
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, /dev/mmcblk0p201:07
GeneralAntillesWhat Pavlov said.01:07
paroneayeaGeneralAntilles: aha01:07
javispedroor /home01:07
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paroneayeaGeneralAntilles: cool, thanks :)01:08
paroneayeaer, thanks Pavlov :)01:08
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paroneayeaI guess now is a good time to learn about debian packaging ;p01:12
paroneayeaI've been meaning to for some time.01:12
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, we've got lots of skilled packagers in the room.01:13
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, is our debmaster.
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paroneayeadpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of emacs:01:14
paroneayea emacs depends on libxaw7; however:01:14
paroneayea  Package libxaw7 is not installed.01:14
paroneayeaguess I should try the no-x version01:14
Flandry_i gotta say, ever since someone talking here about how the 3-row is good because it reduces thumb travel and allows you to also reach the screen, i've been feeling like my Zaurus keyboard is way too spread out01:15
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Flandry_i've always thought of it as an awesome keyboard, but i can see the case for closer spacing on thumboard01:15
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paroneayeadpkg: error processing emacs_22.1-1_armel-nox.deb (--install):01:21
paroneayea failed in buffer_write(fd) (9, ret=-1): backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/progmodes/antlr-mode.elc': No space left on device01:21
paroneayeawell I gues emacs tried installing to / after all :)01:21
javispedroyeah if you got a diablo .deb01:22
javispedroI mean, a pre fremantle .deb package .01:22
javispedroyou'll have to get maemo-optify and run maemo-optify-deb on the .deb file01:22
javispedroor if you're building it read about maemo-optify stuff .01:22
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* javispedro twitches01:27
javispedrosomeone saying "all applications are Qt"01:27
GeneralAntillesAbout what, where?01:27
javispedroabout n900, some local reviewer...01:28
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javispedroyoutube comment in a video showing the older ugly N900/rover protos: "Where can I get the metal case which is in the video?"01:39
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, those are the Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend cases.01:40
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javispedrocase? or is that the actual device housing01:41
GeneralAntillesIt's a case.01:42
GeneralAntillesSimilar to the one the Adobe guy used for that unannounced Android phone during the Flash 10.1 presentation.01:42
javispedroouch then.01:43
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KenYoungIs there a default root password which can be used on the n900 when executing a commad with sudo ?01:48
GeneralAntillesThere's no user password01:48
andre__install rootsh from Extras repository01:48
andre__and use sudo gainroot01:48
GeneralAntillesWell, "root"01:48
KenYoungGeneralAntilles, Where does one find the Extras repository?01:49
andre__Start Application Manager, click the menu bar, choose "Application catalogues"01:49
andre__I think there should already be an "Maemo Extras" entry that you have to enable first01:49
GeneralAntillesJust use the .install link here.
andre__That also works :)01:50
KenYoungThanks again.01:50
GeneralAntillesUgh, stupid Extras.01:50
GeneralAntilleser, Downloads.01:50
GeneralAntillesStupid search doesn't find the Maemo 5 version.01:50
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xorAxAxnice to see that nokia stopped calling maemo differently (OS 2008 etc.) at the surface01:52
xorAxAxis maemo 5 based on qt?01:52
andre__no, on gtk.01:52
andre__maemo 6 will be based on qt01:52
xorAxAxwp-de claims that 5.1 will only have community supported gtk01:53
GeneralAntillesxorAxAx, the maemo (lowercase m) project was the open source part of Internet Tablet OS.01:53
andre__xorAxAx, a great and reliable source.01:53
GeneralAntillesxorAxAx, Nokia finally decided to adopt it as their brand last year.01:53
andre__may I quickly edit that wikipedia page to state that Maemo 4 was based on Windows Mobile?01:53
GeneralAntillesxorAxAx, yeah, they're fools. ;)01:53
xorAxAxandre__: i guess its just outdated :)01:53
andre__true. yes :-)01:54
GeneralAntillesxorAxAx, nope, just plain wrong.01:54
GeneralAntillesThat was never the case.01:54
andre__people guessing stuff. wikipedia.01:54
crashanddieI managed not to smoke for a week01:54
crashanddieless than a week01:54
* GeneralAntilles hands crashanddie a cup of coffee.01:54
crashanddiesince wednesday afternoon really01:54
lardmanhow's things chaps01:54
crashanddiebut fuck it, I'm going to buy fags01:55
lardmanCan anyone think, off hand, how I should clear my non-double-buffered gtk_drawing_area after I do a screen rotate to get rid of any artefacts therein?01:56
lardmannah, just any old way so it doens't look like I have two sets of buttons and labels01:58
lardmanI guess I'll have to draw a big black square to it01:59
xorAxAxcan maemo 5 sync the calendar via syncml?02:00
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crashanddiexorAxAx, not that I'm aware of02:02
xorAxAxbut it can sync the contacts?02:02
xorAxAxthats incomplete :)02:02
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lardmanhmm, apparently my rotation stuff isn't actually working02:09
lardmanhow do people output debugging info when they connect to libosso?02:10
lardman(as I can't start stuff from the command line any more)02:10
crashanddiew00t, google wave invite :D02:11
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timeless_mbpso um02:12
mgedminlardman, write to a file in /tmp?02:12
timeless_mbpanyone here see Yes/No dialogs from apps other than the browser?02:12
lardmanmgedmin: yeah, I guess so02:12
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crashanddielardman, use system logger?02:12
lardmantimeless_mbp: yes, my app has them ;)02:12
lardmancrashanddie: sounds involved02:12
qwerty12_N900lardman: libosso has logging macros, actually =)02:13
timeless_mbplardman: how broken would your app be if i changed them to OK/Cancel?02:13
lardman"Would you like to open this URL?"02:13
lardmanprobably no more broken than most Windows apps02:13
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lardman"Windows is about to delete everthing on your hard disc", "OK?"02:14
lardmanno, it's bloody not!02:14
lardmanah, those ones don't have any other options02:14
lardmanso they should just be informing you, rather than asking02:15
lcuktimeless_mbp, "delete contact|conversation" has them02:16
lcukdo you want todelete this contact   on|cancel    doesnt sound as clear02:17
timeless_mbpusing OK/Cancel there seems ok02:17
lcukive seen red ones too02:17
lardmanit works, but is poor English02:17
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: Going for the GTK stock strings?02:17
timeless_mbpClear all messages in this conversation?02:17
lcukwith extra emphasis02:17
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: going to unbreak the browser02:17
timeless_mbpwhich requires breaking hildon02:18
timeless_mbpbecause the idiots02:18
timeless_mbpforced browser to use hildon yes-now02:18
lardmancan they not fix it when they recompile rather than changing the strings?02:18
timeless_mbpthey refuse to let us fix it02:18
timeless_mbpit's a feature-requirement02:19
lardmanwho's they?02:19
timeless_mbpcoming from high-idiots02:19
timeless_mbpui leads02:19
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lardmanfeature that it has to use yes/no ?02:19
lardmanseems reasonable, or have they used it in the wrong places?02:19
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lardmanwell, tbh, breaking other apps is probably not the way forward02:20
diegovioladoes maemo use gtk or qt?02:21
lardmanbugs against the browser?02:21
lardmandiegoviola: gtk atm, qt for the next version02:21
timeless_mbpi can't make the code change because management requires us to allow the ui designers to dictate how the browser should work02:21
diegoviolalardman: nice02:21
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lardmandiegoviola: in fact with be both for the next version, but moving to qt02:21
timeless_mbpeven though the dialog is used by web pages02:21
lcuknot directly timeless, but lardman is right, just file this one as a bug02:22
lardmanand you can also use qt now if you want02:22
timeless_mbplike google mail02:22
timeless_mbplcuk: it is filed02:22
timeless_mbpand wontfixed02:22
diegoviolalardman: nice, qt is better02:22
timeless_mbpeven though each localization has complained02:22
lardmantimeless_mbp: what's the #?02:22
lcukhow many points if the factorisation in02:22
lcukis the02:22
lcukbug 513002:23
povbotBug Use of "yes/no" in JavaScript confirmation dialogues is confusing02:23
diegoviolaany sip softphone for the maemo?02:23
lcukthanks povbot!02:23
timeless_mbpdiegoviola: the native support isn't good enough?02:23
diegoviolaoh didn't knew it had one02:24
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: New GConf key: /apps/fix_retarded_ui_decisions,  hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons(window, "message", gconf_client_get_bool(client,  "/apps/fix_retarded_ui_decisions", NULL) ? GTK_STOCK_OK : GTK_STOCK_YES02:24
timeless_mbpcan't work02:24
timeless_mbpamong other reasons we don't use gtk apis02:24
timeless_mbpwe use hildon02:24
lardmantimeless_mbp: could they not just alter the text in the dialog?02:24
timeless_mbpand we're gated by evil people who refuse to allow us to make unapproved changes02:24
timeless_mbp(or changes in general for that matter)02:24
timeless_mbplardman: you want the entire web to change its messages?02:24
timeless_mbpjust to work with one stupid browser on one device that no one in their right mind would use?02:25
lardmanno clue, where does that come from then?02:25
timeless_mbpyeah, great idea02:25
lcukfile a bug with the internet at large02:25
lardmanah it's from gmail is it?02:25
timeless_mbp"dear internet"02:25
timeless_mbp"nokia doesn't like your pretext, please change it. k. thx'02:25
timeless_mbplardman: gmail is one example, yes02:25
timeless_mbpgmail should just give us /x and be done with it02:26
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timeless_mbp"screw nokia, they're idiots and broke js support for gmail anyway, have mobile"02:26
* timeless_mbp wonders if people have noticed that we broke gmail02:26
lardmanit must be possible to apply a binary patch to the flags for that dialog02:26
timeless_mbpinternals have noticed02:26
timeless_mbpnot particularly easily02:26
timeless_mbpit's calling a hildon api function02:26
timeless_mbpi'd have to find a similar abi gtk function with similar function length02:27
timeless_mbpi'm much more willing to break everyone else02:27
lardmanoh right, I thought it was just a standard gtk dialog02:27
timeless_mbpi believe i made myself very clear repeatedly above that we were using a hildon api02:27
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: Where on GMail would I find this message?02:27
lardmanis late02:27
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: if you have unfinished server transactions and try to navigate away02:28
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timeless_mbpit's fairly easy to trigger02:28
lcukmoreso recently02:28
lardmannighty-night all02:29
lcukgnite simon02:29
lardmanactually belay that order for a minute or two02:29
* lcuk puts the bacon back in the fridge gingerly02:30
lcuki was ummmm errr  just checking its ok02:30
crashanddiewhich arch is maemo based off?02:30
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: You are aware hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_button is a Hildon function?02:30
crashanddiewell, which debian version?02:30
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: And hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons is the one used for that dialog?02:30
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: what part of we were ordered not to fix it was unclear?02:30
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qwerty12_N900You're the one going on about how it wouldn't work02:31
timeless_mbpfrom a "i can't fix that because i'm ordered not to"02:31
KenYoungOn the N900, what directory does the video player look at to find video content?02:31
timeless_mbpnot from a "it isn't possible to fix with a few lines of C"02:32
timeless_mbpKenYoung: anywhere it isn't ordered not to index02:32
timeless_mbpwhich is roughly anything you can see from file manager02:32
KenYoungtimeless_mbp, Thanks!02:32
timeless_mbpKenYoung: that's not necessarily the question you actually wanted to ask02:33
timeless_mbpor it might be02:33
timeless_mbpit very much depends on what you actually are trying to do02:33
lardmanlcuk: help yourself, had my fill of bacon for this evening02:33
lardmannight all!02:33
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qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: I still think the GConf key is the way to go. They're UI designers, not programmers =)02:33
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timeless_mbpmanagement isn't letting us change anything for ages anyway02:33
KenYoungtimeless_mbp, I just want to download some of my video content via scp, and I don't know where I should put it.02:34
timeless_mbpand each fix we do has to have an explanation02:34
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timeless_mbpKenYoung: so...02:34
timeless_mbpthat's a different question :)02:34
timeless_mbpif you stick a file in ~ you get a 2gb limit02:34
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timeless_mbpif you stick it in ~/MyDocs you get a 30gb limit02:34
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timeless_mbpif you stick a file in ~/MyDocs/.videos, then people using file manager will see it in the videos folder02:35
timeless_mbpif you stick a file in ~/MyDocs/DCIM, then people using your n900 as usb mass storage will see it in the photos folder02:35
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timeless_mbpDCIM is probably mislabeled as "Camera" unless you have my localization in which case it's probably labeled as "Photos"02:36
Anprhey anyone from the UK ?02:37
timeless_mbp(which is arguably wrong if you happen to do a lot of video recording02:37
timeless_mbpAnpr: there are such people02:37
Anprare all of them sleeping ? :)02:37
KenYoungtimeless_mbp, Thanks, again.   That's just what I wanted to know.02:38
timeless_mbpKenYoung: in the future, i suggest you explain what you're trying to do02:38
timeless_mbpotherwise you're likely to get an answer which is not at all what you actually need :)02:38
GeneralAntillesReading comprehension seems to be at about a 5th grade level on Talk.02:41
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timeless_mbpthat's pretty high02:49
Macerthat was a pain02:50
Macerusb dvd burners suck02:50
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, what can I say, I'm an optimist.02:51
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Macernothing beats a windows install02:59
Maceri think it has reboot like... 4 times already03:00
RXrenesis8amen to that brother03:00
Maceri'm installing it on an older 2.6GHz opteron03:00
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, spelling isn't that great either03:01
Maceri should put better hardware in this little box03:01
* GeneralAntilles wonders where he's gonna sleep Sunday night in Barcelona.03:01
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, you're in barcelona?03:02
GeneralAntillesErm, December 4-7th03:02
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crashanddieyou modafoka03:02
GeneralAntillesCome to Barcelona!03:02
GeneralAntillesYou gonna be in Australia then?03:02
crashanddieI'm leaving the south of france on Tue. 5th03:02
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crashanddieSo I might just abuse you and drive down to Barca on Monday evening03:03
crashanddieyou got a car while you're there?03:03
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* crashanddie didn't go buy cigarettes03:03
crashanddienow I'm starting to be really on edge03:03
crashanddietomorrow's workday is going to suck for people working in the same building03:04
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GeneralAntilleslol, no, I don't have a car.03:04
GeneralAntillesI'm going to be wandering around with a bunch of Maemo hackers.03:05
crashanddieputting it down in my agenda03:05
crashanddieno promises though, lot of stuff happening03:05
Macergoing to barcelona to hang out with maemo hackers huh?03:06
Macersounds hoppin03:06
crashanddieany change you can train up north for an evening?03:06
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GeneralAntillesActually, hrm, when's my flight on Monday? . . .03:06
Macerdamn. one of the fans in this thing died03:07
Macerthat's crappy03:07
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, so you're landing in barca on monday at 10AM?03:10
GeneralAntillesLanding 07:45 December 4th.03:10
crashanddieI'm such an idiot03:10
GeneralAntillesWhat were you thinking, January?03:11
crashanddiesorry bro03:11
crashanddieI'll be in Calif at that point03:11
crashanddietime for bed03:11
crashanddieta ta03:11
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: what flight is 12 days long?!?03:12
GeneralAntillesMy flight is about 8 hours long.03:12
luke-jrMonday, tomorrow, is Nov 2303:12
luke-jrthat's 12 days before your landing date of Dec 403:12
GeneralAntillesYeah, I'm talking about Monday December 7th. :)03:12
GeneralAntillesIs when I'm leaving from Barcelona to fly back home.03:13
luke-jrmy next question was how you were landing before you departed ;)03:13
jaskacausality, schmausality03:14
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lcukjohnx, you must post in the MacGyver thread03:20
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* b-man17 feels like throwing his laptop out the window after seeing "TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, sqlite3.Connection found" xP03:22
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lcukb-man17, just stop using unicode03:22
luke-jrlcuk: Unicode is practically mandatory in Python 303:23
lcukb-man17, just stop using Python 3 ;)03:24
* b-man17 is using python2.503:24
b-man17in esbox03:24
lcukso whats up then03:24
b-man17that´s what i´m trying to figure out :(03:25
* b-man17 posts the code on pastebin03:25
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b-man17here´s the code:
b-man17and the complete error:
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mgedminb-man17, look here03:44
mgedminsettings, appdir, configdir, target, logfile = PathSetup.define_paths(locally, HOME)03:44
mgedminwhile define_paths does03:44
mgedminreturn appdir, configdir, logfile, target, settings03:45
mgedminnotice anything different?03:45
mgedminlike the order of variables?03:45
mgedmindon't abuse tuples, create a class03:45
b-man17ok, thanks :)03:45
mikhasdont abuse classes, create structs ^^03:46
mikhasah, python?03:46
mikhasbut tuples are what makes python great, especially the return tuples03:46
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b-man17ohhh!!! it works!!!! thanks again mgedmin! :D03:49
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mgedminmikhas, yeah, when there's a natural ordering, e.g. (x, y, z)03:53
mgedminnot when you have 5 arbitrary things03:53
mgedminalthough named tuples maybe ...03:54
mikhasI see what you mean03:54
mikhasstill, I wish other languages had that neat convert-into-tuples-on-return hack03:55
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mikhas"x,y = y,x" <= best swap ever.03:56
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mgedminpython rules04:00
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pupnikN810's slightly larger screen is "aah" after hours on N90004:06
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pupniki would love to soÃmeday see a documentary on how n810 was designed and built04:07
pupnikthe metal case feels soo classic04:07
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tadthebuilderhey all, im out of the loop, im reading rumors that seem to indicate mer may be dying04:11
GeneralAntillesFrom whom and where?04:11
tadthebuildermaybe not dying but their seems to be a general doubt tmo04:11
tadthebuilderthat it will ever be usable for day to day operations04:11
tadthebuilderive been gone for along time04:12
GeneralAntillestmo can go die in a fire.04:12
tadthebuilderso didnt know if something has happened04:12
tadthebuilderor if people are just impatient04:12
GeneralAntillesBunch of irrational fools over there.04:12
tadthebuilderah okay04:12
tadthebuilderill wait :)04:12
tadthebuilderso tmo is irrational fools but mamo on freenode is good haha04:12
GeneralAntillesNot actually reading anything and cherry-picking quotes are favorite pasttimes over there. ;)04:13
tadthebuilderah, i might be a little guilty04:13
GeneralAntillesRemember, Nokia just created a paid position to support Mer and its mission. ;)04:13
tadthebuilderi did not know that04:13
tadthebuilderthat is news to me04:13
GeneralAntillesYeah, Stskeeps is distmaster now.04:13
tadthebuilderhavent really been on internet for a month...04:13
tadthebuilderah well thats cool and exciting04:13
GeneralAntillesWorking for maemo.org04:13
tadthebuilderim looking forward to what comes out04:14
tadthebuilderI figured that you would be here and know04:14
GeneralAntillesI helped run a Mer booth at the Florida Linux Show in Orlando last month with andrewfblack.04:14
tadthebuilderwhat was up04:14
GeneralAntillesSo, no, not dying. ;)04:14
tadthebuilderI wonder if there is anyway I could help mer with my lack of technical skill...04:14
GeneralAntillesInstantly converted a half-dozen Android hackers to Maemo when I showed them the N900.04:14
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tadthebuilderlucky person having one04:15
mikhasGA, gj!04:15
tadthebuilderit wasnt GA, it was the n90004:16
tadthebuilder(no offence)04:16
GeneralAntillesHey, I'm an affable and exciting individual!04:16
tadthebuilderstill i think the n900 did most of the work04:17
mikhasyeah, I guess you could convert android devs if you showed them the powers of an abacus ...04:17
GeneralAntillesWait, maybe I mean laughable. . . .04:17
tadthebuilderfavourite discussion on tmo04:19
mikhasshould I risk to click?04:19
GeneralAntillestadthebuilder, well, I warmed 'em up with a talk about relative platform merits (X, real toolkits, real libc, open governance, public bug tracker, etc.) then I showed 'em the N900 later. :P04:19
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tadthebuilderah okay04:19
tadthebuilderknowledge is helpful too04:19
tadthebuilderFrom what I have read around I believe the basic, original version, of the Atom is still about twice as powerful as the N900 CPU.04:19
GeneralAntillesYeah, it also uses infinite more power at idle. ;)04:20
tadthebuilderit was a quote04:20
tadthebuilderi thought thats only true04:20
tadthebuilderif you compare megahertz04:20
tadthebuilderbut not if you compare actual usage04:20
GeneralAntillesIt depends on the task.04:20
GeneralAntillesBut for most things that's basically correct04:20
GeneralAntillesPower usage is the metric that really matters in mobile devices, though.04:21
tadthebuilderI want my device to not kill my batter04:21
tadthebuilderI have a lapto04:21
tadthebuilderwhen new04:21
GeneralAntillesThe OMAP3 uses practically zero power at idle, the Atom uses nearly the same amount at idle as active.04:21
tadthebuilderit got about an hour of battery life04:21
tadthebuilderwhen new04:21
tadthebuildernow 15 minutes04:21
tadthebuilderworst purchase ever04:21
tadthebuilderbig difference in power consumption04:21
tadthebuilderI want an arm laptop!04:21
mikhashave fun compiling, lol04:22
tadthebuilderas long as it can run firefox and open office...04:22
luke-jrFirefox and OpenOffice suck :p04:22
tadthebuilderits what i use04:22
tadthebuildertoo lazy to check new stuff04:22
tadthebuildertoo pour to pay ms or opera money04:22
luke-jrKonqueror is older than Firefox04:22
tadthebuilderbut im a windows convert04:23
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tadthebuilderso i was using firefox before I switched to linux04:23
tadthebuilderand gmail and google docs and such dont seem to work right in conqueror04:23
tadthebuilderis there a better open source office suite?04:23
mikhastbh, I'd buy MS Office in an instant if it would run natively on linux04:23
luke-jrKOffice? Honestly, I just use a plain old text editor04:24
tadthebuilderi actually like open office better than ms office04:24
luke-jrtadthebuilder: that's because Google can't code for crap04:24
tadthebuilderi had this arguement with you before..04:24
tadthebuilderand you went on a rant about how google cant code04:24
tadthebuilderit was fun04:24
mikhasooffice is inferior to ms office in so many ways ...04:24
tadthebuilderooffice does everything ineed04:24
tadthebuilderthrough college, and seminary04:25
luke-jrKate does everything I need.04:25
luke-jrdoes OOffice/MSOffice even support bookmarks?04:25
tadthebuilder= gradschool)04:25
tadthebuildernever worked with more than forty pages04:25
tadthebuilder45, never used book marks04:25
tadthebuilderisnt kate just a text editor?04:25
luke-jryes, exactly :p04:25
luke-jra text editor with syntax highlighting and bookmarks04:26
luke-jrall I need04:26
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tadthebuilderguess you never had to write a footnoted paper in turabian style04:26
luke-jrtadthebuilder: HTML works just fine04:26
tadthebuilderseems like a little more work04:26
tadthebuilderi havent used html since i was twelve i think04:27
luke-jrfaster to type than hunt for buttons04:27
tadthebuilderkeyboard shortcuts...04:27
mikhasand I guess kate has latex plugins, too04:27
luke-jrI think HTML is still faster in the long run :)04:27
luke-jrand again, BOOKMARKS04:27
mikhaswell, I like my gedit though it could be improved04:27
luke-jra MUST HAVE for coding :p04:28
mikhaswell yes04:28
tadthebuilderid have to learn html again...04:28
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tadthebuilderi wish i could go to barcelona04:29
tadthebuilderjust seems like a pretty city04:29
tadthebuilderux meets code hackfest in barcelona04:30
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tadthebuilderanyone seen the design of the eee-reader with the clamshell book like design04:40
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t_s_othat "edge"?04:42
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* GeneralAntilles is going to Barcelona.04:45
tadthebuilderyou excited general04:45
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tadthebuilderthats exciting04:46
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tadthebuilderim glad you get to go to barcelona since you could make amsterdam04:49
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paroneayeaSo assuming I'm working on setting up a cross-compiling environment from my debian machine.  Would this be considered the best route, or maybe a more manual path?:
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paroneayeawell I guess I'm just cross-compiling, this looks like it sets up some binary garbage I might not need on my machine?05:03
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paroneayeaalso, what's the reasoning for things installing to /opt/ instead of /usr/?05:16
t_s_oopt will be symlinked to /home/user/opt/ or something like that...05:16
* paroneayea looks forward to a day when he can hopefully just install debian on his n900 and still use it as a phone :)05:18
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, Debian is not optimized for power savings.05:21
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, /usr would be mounted too late in the boot process.05:21
GeneralAntillesparoneayea, there's a thread about it on the maemo-developers archives.05:21
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dmj726hey zaheerm05:29
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pupnikTill just put Enigma into -devel. Great puzzle game.  He is on a roll!06:57
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pupnikheh level 13 not easy07:10
GeneralAntillespupnik, just wish he'd quite whining about -testing.07:15
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johnxmornin' all07:54
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RST38hmoorning all08:02
johnxallo RST38h08:02
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timeless_mbpjohnx: i've got a new deb for testing08:18
johnxtesting to see if it breaks my device? or testing to see if the strings make sense?08:19
timeless_mbpi'm running it on my device08:20
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timeless_mbpso let's assume it doesn't kill devices dead :)08:20
tigertyo morning08:21
timeless_mbp[es][en] = parse fail08:21
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johnxallo tigert08:22
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johnxtimeless_mbp, yeah, missing a fair number of dependencies. where would I find those zenity and gettext?08:23
timeless_mbpsorry, you really don't have my package installed already?08:24
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johnxnope :)08:24
* RST38h moos at wazd08:25
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izzoxAnyone to help me installing gentoo on my n810?? Pliz!08:27
johnxizzox, if you can't figure it out yourself, gentoo probably isn't for you ...08:27
* RST38h speechless08:28
Stskeepsizzox: you want to talk to luke-jr08:28
RST38hizzox: but do reconsider your motivation first :)08:28
wazdheya all08:28
luke-jrizzox: it's down atm, but read
izzoxYeah i read it08:29
izzoxBut i seemed that it was the guide for the non-bootable08:30
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izzoxCan I pm u luke-jr??08:32
paroneayeaso, hildon is based on top of clutter, right?08:32
RST38hhildon-desktop is08:32
johnxlibhildon is just on top of gtk+08:32
paroneayeacool, thanks08:33
luke-jrizzox: it includes bootable08:33
izzoxCan i pm u?08:33
luke-jrrather chat here08:35
izzoxIt's ok i got u.08:36
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wazdRST38h: have you received any details on that nokia event?08:54
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kirmastarting to be pretty convinced I get my own n900 on my hands today... it's somewhere in helsinki capital area now :)08:57
timeless_mbpkirma: and where are you?08:58
* microlith will be happy if Nokia ships his Monday and gets it on or before Wednesday08:58
timeless_mbpyou'll be happy if Nokia gets it on or before Wednesday?08:59
* timeless_mbp warns microlith about the hazards of incomplete and missed backreferences while writing in the third person08:59
johnxtimeless_mbp, you misparsed, actually :)08:59
kirmaoh, I'm in helsinki too.08:59
timeless_mbpjohnx: did not08:59
timeless_mbphe's missing a 'he'08:59
johnxon second glance, I guess you're right09:00
microlithtimeless_mbp's parser is on extra strict09:00
timeless_mbpthe only way to fly!09:00
timeless_mbpand i'm being lax09:01
timeless_mbpi'm willing to treat 'his' as 'his n900 [on]'09:01
timeless_mbpinstead of asking microlith how much he paid for a Monday and whether it's transferable :)09:01
microlithmondays don't sell for much, no one likes them09:02
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timeless_mbp[[=]o]=> "Open lens cover"09:04
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timeless_mbpShould that be "Slide open lens cover" ?09:05
microlithonly after someone rips the cover out09:05
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timeless_mbpor "Lens cover closed.\nSlide to open"09:05
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timeless_mbpjohnx: btw, you were complaining about me deleting files from $HOME[user]09:09
timeless_mbpthere are people who want my package to binary hack osso-browser09:09
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johnxtimeless_mbp, only if it is marked as Replaces: osso-browser09:09
timeless_mbpjohnx: since binary hacking is abi specific09:10
timeless_mbpit'd have to be in a dependency09:10
timeless_mbpactually wait09:10
timeless_mbpi might be able to do this09:10
* timeless_mbp ponders09:10
timeless_mbpok, how do i find a function in a binary? :)09:10
timeless_mbpis that included in my box?09:11
timeless_mbpi don't even have a debugger!09:11
* johnx shrugs09:11
timeless_mbpuh oh09:12
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timeless_mbpE: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run `dpkg --configure -a` to correct the problem.09:12
timeless_mbpso i guess running reboot from inside postinst is a bad idea :)09:12
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timeless_mbpis there a debian/postdpkg? :)09:14
* timeless_mbp puzzles09:14
timeless_mbpwhy didn't ham choke on my dpkg --configure -a error?09:15
timeless_mbpah, running dpkg --configure dpkg to clean up journal09:15
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timeless_mbpok, can i get the pid of dpkg easily?09:22
timeless_mbpis it in my postinst's parent pid chain?09:22
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suihkulokkisounds like you want to do something very wrong09:23
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timeless_mbpyep :)09:25
timeless_mbpi have a problem:09:25
timeless_mbpinstalling my package can result in the user needing to reboot09:25
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timeless_mbpi think ham actually has some way to trigger reboots09:26
Corsachmmh, unconditional reboot?09:26
timeless_mbpi toss up a dialog to confirm09:26
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timeless_mbpthe dialog lets you "take your chances"09:26
timeless_mbpham/backup don't typically give you a choice09:26
Corsacthe kernel has a debconf note for that, but I'm not really sure maemo has a debconf frontend?09:26
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Corsacwhat is the ? about? kernel note or debconf?09:27
microlithI'd take a look at the way kernel releaes are packaged up09:27
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adeusat least ubuntu uses the reboot-required script09:27
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Corsac(I meant debian kernel, not maemo kernel, sorry)09:27
adeusnotify-reboot-required to be exact09:27
timeless_mbpdoesn't seem to have such a thing09:28
pwnguinanyone know of a personal webserver alternative to flickr?09:28
adeusflickr is a personal webserver?09:29
timeless_mbpshows we have it in one file09:29
pwnguinno, "personal webserver" is an adjective09:29
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pwnguinas in, flickr, but installable in ubuntu09:29
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pwnguinlike gallery without the security time bomb09:30
timeless_mbpdoesn't seem to exist in open09:30
timeless_mbpCorsac: so, am i safe in assuming maemo doesn't have a matching thing?09:31
adeuslooking at it, the script is just some wakeup thingy for a "reboot" applet09:31
timeless_mbpyou can use to look around09:31
timeless_mbpadeus: yeah09:32
timeless_mbpi'm not quite sure i really want to write a reboot applet09:32
pwnguini like the idea of photo sharing, but the 300 picture limit is unfortunate09:32
tigertpwnguin: picasa has bigger quota09:32
timeless_mbpwho has the 300 limit?09:32
tigertbut "sharing" photos and "personal webserver" are kinda contradictory09:32
pwnguintigert: how so?09:33
tigertif you want something like flickr, without all your contacts, it is not the same09:33
pwnguinah, i dont need social networking09:33
Corsactimeless_mbp: I guess so :/09:33 then?09:33
adeusovi share works rather well at least on my 580009:33
* timeless_mbp uses gallery09:33
tigertovi share too09:33
Corsacmhmh the template has been dropped in debian09:33
tigertor picasaweb09:33
pwnguintigert: im kinda worried about gallery being written in PHP09:34
Corsactimeless_mbp: 1, 2 or 3?09:34
Corsacpwnguin: scp +
tigertpwnguin: everything is php nowadays09:34
tigertbut yeah09:34
pwnguinand everything is insecure these days :P09:34
tigertpwnguin: picasa works09:34
tigertor ovi share09:34
Corsactimeless_mbp: was what we had at one point09:34
tigertif you have n900 its easy to push pics to ovi09:34
tigertor just pay the flickr fee like I did :P09:34
tigertits just handy and works09:35
pwnguini already pay linode09:35
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* tigert wonders what is the limit on ovi.com09:35
doc|homepwnguin: php is fine, it's developers you need to worry about09:36
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pwnguindoc|home: sure. why should i trust gallery developers?09:36
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doc|homepwnguin: that's a whole different question :)09:36
Corsacbecause they have an historic of success wrt. security?09:36
Corsacno wait.09:36
doc|homepwnguin: but it's open source, you can look at it yourself, modify it, or pay someone to secure it for you if you like.09:37
timeless_mbpCorsac: thanks09:37
timeless_mbpi can't really parse that09:37
timeless_mbpit seems to use 'input(...)'09:37
tigertgallery has had its security flaws09:37
timeless_mbpyou'd rather trust ovi?09:37
Corsactimeless_mbp: it uses the debconf system09:38
tigertdunno about how it is been recently09:38
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timeless_mbpwhich can't spell Mexico City correctly?09:38
tigerttimeless_mbp: its not my own server :)09:38
timeless_mbptigert: but is it your own photos?09:38
tigertflickr is yeah09:38
timeless_mbplook, i'm not defending gallery09:38
timeless_mbpand i'm not actively attacking ovi09:38
timeless_mbpalthough i sure as hell am passively attacking those idiots09:38
tigertI use flickr because it has the critical mass of people09:38
tigertI'd use facebook gallery if it didnt suck09:38
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tigertbut its because of the social side09:39
timeless_mbpi mean seriously, how hard is it not to misspell the names of 9 cities?09:39
timeless_mbpHlesinki anyone?09:39
timeless_mbp for people who haven't seen it09:39
tigerttimeless_mbp: scheuldle contsraints!09:39
timeless_mbpjust read the name of the city south of new york09:39
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timeless_mbp(or due south of chicago)09:39
* tigert does not like ubuntu much at the moment09:40
tigertor adobe09:40
tigertdunno which to blame for the firefox eating 100% cpu the moment I visit a site with flash09:41
timeless_mbptigert: do you like ovi? :)09:41
johnxtigert, flashblock09:41
timeless_mbpyou could use ns-plugin-wrapper09:41
timeless_mbpand then you could blame it!09:41
tigerttimeless_mbp: I started to use ovi a bit09:41
timeless_mbp(the wrapper, which is buggy)09:41
timeless_mbptigert: i'm sorry :_)09:41
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RurouniJones_Anyone in the UK got their 900s yet?09:41
johnxif the site still takes 100% of your CPU time after installing flashblock, then by all means blame firefox or the ubuntu firefox packagers...09:41
timeless_mbpfwiw, in case people think i'm being unfair09:42
tigertjohnx: yeah09:42
timeless_mbpi sent an internal email to the people listed as employees at the mexico city store09:42
timeless_mbpwe'll see if they can fix their store's name09:42
pwnguintigert: are you using the flash beta?09:42
timeless_mbptigert: got gdb?09:42
tigertpwnguin: whatever comes with ubuntu 9.1009:42
timeless_mbpit's fairly trivial to do basic sampling09:42
tigertupgraded to 9.10 and this started09:42
pwnguintigert: does it happen on guest sessions?09:43
* tigert blames lousy QA09:43
tigertpwnguin: havent looked that hard yet09:43
tigertgood point09:43
pwnguinguest session is a trivial test platform ;)09:43
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timeless_mbpparoneayea: thanks for the url09:44
timeless_mbptigert: ovi has qa?09:44
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pwnguintigert: ubuntu09:44
timeless_mbpafaict the esMX team does absolutely ZERO qa09:44
timeless_mbpsince this is the second big botch i've found for their site09:44
pwnguintimeless_mbp: he's referring to ubuntu's QA09:44
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timeless_mbpbah, getting flash right is hard09:45
timeless_mbptigert: you should know that :)09:45
timeless_mbpalso, it's not like you have many choices09:45
timeless_mbpusually 99% of all versions available are exploitable09:45
pwnguini think gnash plays youtube now09:45
timeless_mbpwhich would *hopefully* exclude them from consideration09:45
timeless_mbp(although Nokia management doesn't seem to consider exploits to be a reason not to ship a product)09:45
tigerttimeless_mbp: sometimes it might be wise to not bite the hand that feeds you all the time :)09:46
pwnguinconsumers are recieving n900s?09:46
timeless_mbptigert: i'm thoroughly pissed and am considering wanting to not have to touch that hand ever again09:47
timeless_mbp(although, i think that's finnish weather causing me to bite every hand i see at this point)09:47
tigerttimeless_mbp: I wouldnt bring those issues to a public channel though09:47
timeless_mbptigert: i didn't mention my private rant from this morning09:48
timeless_mbpdid you get that in your mailbox?09:48
tigertdidnt read mail yet09:48
timeless_mbpwhat, your n900 doesn't start grabbing mail at 8am or 9am?09:48
tigertit does09:49
tigertdoesnt mean I read it :)09:49
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tigerthit ctrl-alt-bs on console on that ubuntu :P09:50
tigertinstead of ctrl-alt-fn-F809:50
pwnguinanyone seen that?09:50
tigertwhich i tried09:50
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tigertfn is next to del09:50
timeless_mbpdo i want to know what oh.09:50
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tigertbut Steve has seen that this is Good(tm)09:51
pwnguintigert: this is why dontzap defaults are in place09:51
timeless_mbptigert: eh?09:51
tigerttimeless_mbp: mac kbd09:51
timeless_mbpon my mbp i'd need to try to press fn-ctrl-alt-f12(speaker) and miss to get backspace09:52
tigertthis is external kb09:52
timeless_mbpi don't even have a delete09:52
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johnxtimeless_mbp, yes you do. it just doesn't send ctrl+h :P09:53
timeless_mbpyou were trying to change vt's?09:53
timeless_mbpjohnx: not on my mbp09:53
johnxtimeless_mbp, read me the label on the key under 'eject' :P09:53
timeless_mbpmy mac usb keyboard has two delete keys09:53
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timeless_mbpjohnx: "<-"09:54
johnxuh huh. what nationality is the keyboard?09:54
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timeless_mbpthis might be why nokians think that the <- icon makes sense to people :)09:55
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timeless_mbpright shape, different labels for keys east of P/L and west of "<-D"09:55
johnxthat's an even smaller enter key than the JP keyboard layout I think09:56
pupnikheh xmame is faster than expected09:56
timeless_mbp ?09:56
timeless_mbp ?09:57
johnxtimeless_mbp, that's a cover ... :P09:57
johnxone sec09:57
timeless_mbp ?09:57
timeless_mbpthat last one is nice09:58
timeless_mbpa decent size for the left shift key09:58
johnxlet's see...09:58
timeless_mbpyou lose a key west of "1"09:58
timeless_mbpand backspace changes a bit09:58
timeless_mbpto add Yen09:59
johnxreally cool control key if you could get used to it though09:59
avsWhat would be the easiest way to swap between keyboard layouts in N900?09:59
timeless_mbpyeah control north of south09:59
timeless_mbpavs: most people use the Text Input control panel applet09:59
timeless_mbpeither the normal one or ukeyboard (when it isn't broken)'s09:59
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avsI'll rephrase10:00
timeless_mbpspace is kinda tiny10:00
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pwnguinwhats the buttons on either side of space for? alphabet shifting?10:00
pupnikarg too slllllow for gauntlet 210:00
pupnikcurse you pulse audio!10:00
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johnxtimeless_mbp, exactly10:00
timeless_mbppupnik: compose keys?10:01
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pwnguintimeless_mbp: im not sure what compose means10:01
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tigertguest session also causes 100% cpu for flash10:01
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pwnguinOn some computer systems, a compose key is a key which is designated to signal the software to interpret the next keystrokes as a combination in order to produce a character not found on the keyboard.10:02
timeless_mbpprobably kanji and conversion10:02
johnxpwnguin, and in the case of the japanese qwerty key layouts, you'd use enter to do that10:02
johnxtimeless_mbp, those keys are generally for swapping between alphabets. I believe10:03
pwnguinhah! :P10:03
timeless_mbpok, the left one seems to be conversion10:03
johnxthough, I'm used to inputting japanese (badly) on a US qwerty keyboard, so don't take my word as rule :)10:03
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timeless_mbpthe left one is alphanumeric (eisu)10:04
timeless_mbpthe right one, doesn't seem to be in :(10:04
johnxtimeless_mbp, the right one is kana10:05
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timeless_mbpso it's conversion10:05
timeless_mbpor does it swap into kana entry mode from english?10:06
johnxit might swap between hiragana and katakana10:06
timeless_mbpyes, that glyph more closely matches10:06
johnxthe gana in hiragana is kana, IIRC10:06
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timeless_mbpso yeah, i'll buy that10:07
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johnxwhere the heck is \ ...?10:07
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timeless_mbpYen! ;-)10:07
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johnxheh...that makes sense then. :) I always thought it was some horrible, common font rendering glitch on the japanese version of windows :)10:09
timeless_mbpit is!10:09
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* timeless_mbp has read this article a probably 4-5 times10:10
timeless_mbpit's definitely worth a read if you've never read it10:10
johnxyeah, just read it10:11
timeless_mbp is also worth a read10:11
timeless_mbpif only for the first 3 lines of dialog10:11
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johnxas for input, I'm pretty sure the newer macs (more accurate maybe?) also support inputting kanji by drawing it directly on the touchpad10:13
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timeless_mbpyeah, i'm pretty sure that works10:16
timeless_mbpbtw, the final line of the conversation (might as well be the punchline) is also great10:16
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pwnguinis japanese unicode sort in a worse state of affairs?10:19
pwnguinor simply not exist?10:19
pwnguinim too ignorant to get the punch10:19
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timeless_mbpfrom the comments, it seems to be just as bad10:20
timeless_mbpand hopefully just as removed10:20
timeless_mbppwnguin: the punch is having to go through the same embarrassing discussion all over again10:21
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suihkulokkiTo support this expectation, Japanese and Korean fonts, whenever the default system locale is set to Japanese or Korean, respectively, will display the currency symbol rather than the backslash when U+005c is shown.10:23
* suihkulokki goes headdesk10:23
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: honestly, it's actually softer than nokia stuff10:24
timeless_mbp{compose ~n} on n900 or "pm"/"am" on n90010:24
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timeless_mbp -- think about Norman's wife!10:24
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suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: I think the problem of the "compose" or "dead key" chars in the symbol table is that there is no visible indication that the third row is different from the others10:27
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timeless_mbpi'm not talking about the input method10:27
timeless_mbpi'm talking about the font rendering glyph10:27
timeless_mbpthe input method seems like something they're willing to fix10:27
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timeless_mbpwhereas the glyph is from Nokia-On-High and Must Not Be Changed10:27
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: you do binary hacking once in a while, right?10:28
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timeless_mbpcan you look into a binary hack for me?10:28
* timeless_mbp wonders how to search for {compose ~n}10:29
ShadowJKI wish there was a place to go "argh" about s60 :)10:29
timeless_mbpthey do10:29
timeless_mbpthey're like tmo :)10:29
timeless_mbpwrite once, read never10:29
timeless_mbpthey're probably called fnc10:29
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: bug 502910:30
povbotBug "ñ" (n with tilde) character slightly cut off in default font10:30
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timeless_mbp for people too lazy to click twice10:30
timeless_mbpthe am/pm variant is from the duplicate and looks like this:
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timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: anyway, binary hacking10:32
timeless_mbpcan you help me?10:32
* ShadowJK can't tell what's wrong with either..10:32
timeless_mbpShadowJK: you're blind10:32
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: find 'Signo positivo'10:32
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comawhiteI'm trying to install the SDK. But I get an error "Cannot connect to X server" when running as root10:33
timeless_mbpplease let me know when you've foudn it10:33
timeless_mbpcomawhite: and DISPLAY is unset?10:33
timeless_mbphave you considered setting it?10:33
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ShadowJKfirst hit on google: "Matemáticas. Más (+) signo de la suma." ?10:33
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: in the picture:
comawhitetimeless_mbp, in root yes, but not user10:34
* timeless_mbp sighs10:34
ShadowJKoh :)10:34
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timeless_mbpplease let me know when you've found it10:35
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johnxcomawhite, did that work?10:35
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comawhiteI probably did it wrong export DISPLAY=:0.010:36
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timeless_mbpthe sdk runs on :2.0 if you followed the directions10:38
timeless_mbpalthough you probably want to understand the directions10:38
comawhiteokay sorry10:39
timeless_mbpso... a short explanation of x1110:39
timeless_mbpx11 has a concept of 'displays'10:39
timeless_mbpif you're using a Unix, you're likely to be looking at one10:39
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comawhiteyeah I'm on OpenSuse 11.210:39
timeless_mbpby tradition, the one managing the screen you see is :010:39
timeless_mbpthe .0 part isn't worth discussing for now, but it does have a meaning (you can look it up later)10:40
RST38hAnd no, 11.2 is not your X11 screen number10:40
timeless_mbp:1 would be the first additional display10:40
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timeless_mbpmy guess is that the sdk people assumed people were likely to potentially be using that display10:40
timeless_mbpso they chose to use the next logical one, namely :210:40
timeless_mbpeffectively x11 listens to a specific port10:40
timeless_mbpXbase + Displaynumber10:40
timeless_mbpso :2 is really :600210:41
timeless_mbpbut that's not really too interesting10:41
* alterego is interested ..10:41
timeless_mbpfrom memory, x11 forwarding starts with :1010:41
timeless_mbpbecause it is trying to avoid colliding with :1..:910:42
timeless_mbp...x11 forwarding over ssh...10:42
comawhitewell as normal user $DISPLAY=:0.010:42
timeless_mbpand that's your normal screen10:42
timeless_mbpbut the sdk runs its own xserver10:42
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timeless_mbpwhich draws things into its constrained space10:42
timeless_mbp800x480x16alpha ?10:42
timeless_mbpwith its own potential dpi10:43
timeless_mbpand with its own constraints10:43
timeless_mbp(potentially a distinct clipboard, no ability to drag in / out of that surface)10:43
* ali1234 sighs10:43
timeless_mbpnow, typically you'll run the sdk x11 server display such that it paints into your default display (:0)10:43
ali1234thanks for that wonderful but useless explanation of how X11 works10:44
timeless_mbpbut that isn't a requirement ... if you happened to have another display somewhere else10:44
ali1234now i will attempt to actually help this guy10:44
alteregoYeah, I run my Xephyr through ssh10:44
ali1234comawhite: are you attempting to run the GUI installer?10:44
timeless_mbpeach xserver has its own access control rules, and a magic cookie10:44
ali1234comawhite: and how did you aquire root access to do so? with su? sudo?10:45
timeless_mbpfakeroot? :)10:45
comawhitesu, sudo su -, sudo10:45
comawhiteyeah I have root access10:45
comawhiteI never had to set a root display before, that's why I feel like a dumbarse :P10:46
timeless_mbphrm, sorry, i mis-parsed the original "cannot install sdk"10:46
timeless_mbpfor some reason i assumed you meant "cannot use the sdk"10:46
timeless_mbpyour original statement was entirely correct10:46
ali1234well, here's the amazing thing: neither sudo nor su actually configure X permissions properly, and as such, using them to run GUI programs is actually dangerous10:46
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alteregoAnyone know of any Nokia discount codes anywhere?10:46
alteregoLike the twitter one that expired last month?10:47
timeless_mbpalterego: give me 1000EUR, i'll find you an n900 and arrange shipping :)10:47
ali1234comawhite: try running, as your regular user, "gksudo ./"10:47
timeless_mbpprobably not such a good discount, but hey :)10:47
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ali1234comawhite: or, if you're using kde, "ksudo ..."10:48
ali1234or is it kdesudo10:48
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp: how fast will 1000e get me a n900? :-)10:48
comawhitecomawhite@linux-yy63:~/Download> sudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py10:48
comawhite: cannot connect to X server10:48
timeless_mbpShadowJK: hrm, i'm thinking next day within europe10:48
ali1234comawhite: "gksudo"10:48
timeless_mbpi'll walk down to the nokia flagship store here10:48
timeless_mbpand then personally walk it to a DHL10:48
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ShadowJKI thought flagship store started selling on 27th10:48
timeless_mbpi know that the flagship here had a *huge* n900 in one of the windows10:49
timeless_mbpi need to walk there and take photos of it10:49
alteregoI could phone up the London store, see if they'll reserve me one and notify me when it appears, then get a train to London and buy it.10:49
alteregoI like that idea.10:49
ShadowJKand that nokia online shop fi, which seems somewhat related to the flagship store, ran out of N900s and couldn't fill all preorders10:49
Lynourehuge n900 does not sound like a win :)10:49
timeless_mbpthere was a blog post earlier today indicating the chicago store is selling them10:49
comawhiteali1234, I don't have gksudo10:49
SpeedEvilA working one with a 35" monitor would be so funny.10:49
ali1234comawhite: do you use kde or gnome or something else?10:49
timeless_mbpali1234: personally i'd use ssh root@localhost :)10:49
timeless_mbp(with x11 forwarding...)10:49
ali1234timeless_mbp: you mean ssh -X of course, and you shouldnt allow root login on ssh10:50
timeless_mbpali1234: key'd login ;-)10:50
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ali1234comawhite: ok then use "kdesu"10:50
alteregoBack into the wonderful world of Direct Show filters and windows :(10:50
* alterego vomits10:50
timeless_mbpShadowJK: oh wow10:50
comawhiteali1234, okay did that, and it executed but nothing is happening10:50
ali1234comawhite: "kdesu ./"10:50
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp: the deterrents clearly have not worked ;)10:51
comawhiteali1234, same thing, nothing happened after executing10:52
comawhiteSorry about this problem :(10:52
timeless_mbpShadowJK: we try to pen up demand10:52
timeless_mbpclearly we succeeded :)10:52
alteregocomawhite: can you the output of 'sudo env'10:52
timeless_mbpali1234: you could give up and void permissions or steal a cookie ;-)10:54
* timeless_mbp is not beyond stealing cookies10:54
ali1234timeless_mbp: there is obviously some other problem at work here, X permissions are fixed by kdesu10:54
timeless_mbpali1234: there you go trying to fix problems10:55
timeless_mbpwhere's the fun in that? :)10:55
timeless_mbpbut yeah, i'm interested in learning what the root problem is10:55
timeless_mbpit sounds interesting10:55
ali1234i'm guessing it's either opensuse badness or the gui installer is broken in an unusual way10:55
alteregoDoes it use Qt?10:56
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timeless_mbpali1234: a nokia installer that's broken? it can't be! say it ain't so!10:59
timeless_mbpoh err, nevermind. if i had a dollar each time it was, i'd be rich11:00
ShadowJKcomputers suck :/11:00
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ShadowJKor computing11:00
ali1234well, i don't see any way that the script can exit without any output11:00
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comawhitehaha lookie what I found xP11:00
comawhiteseems to be outdate as it talks about 411:01
alteregocomawhite: the fundamentals are the same.11:01
comawhitewhere here's 5:
alteregoHahah, nice.11:02
ali1234awesome, this installer does exactly the same for me: run it, it quits with no output11:02
ali1234although i do already have the SDK installed11:03
comawhitecrazy shit11:03
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ali1234comawhite: did you do: 'chmod a+x'11:04
ali1234if not, do it, run it with kdesu again11:04
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comawhiteno output11:06
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comawhitebrb in 10 minutes11:06
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comawhiteim back11:15
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comawhiteali1234, I got it working11:22
comawhiteexport DISPLAY=:011:22
ali1234what did you do?11:22
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comawhiteali1234, I did :2 but got issues :S11:23
ali1234that stuff is for *after* yu have got the SDK installed11:23
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comawhiteE: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture.11:27
johnxwow, today is really not your lucky day :)11:27
comawhitenope xP11:27
comawhitedo I need scratchbox before the installer?11:27
comawhiteno, because the gui installer has it with it11:29
ali1234the installer... installs it11:29
comawhiteyeah just read it11:29
ali1234it's supposed to work for 64 bit but perhaps that is dependent on distribution11:30
ali1234consider using the virtual machine image11:31
comawhite"Using SDK on x86_64 is not supported, but you can install it anyways"11:32
jjoit runs fine on 64-bit machines11:33
jjoit's just the there is no 64-bit version of scratchbox11:34
comawhiteokay good :)11:34
zaheermit works on my fedora x86_64 machine11:34
comawhiteyeah I'll have to manually install it11:34
jjobut we haven't run into any problems running the 32-bit on 64-bit machines11:34
comawhiteyeah there shouldn't be issues running 32bit apps on 64bi11:35
jjothe sb-installer has a switch for that11:35
* comawhite cries because he wants a n90011:36
comawhiteim installing the sdk so I can have the emulator to port my app to the thing11:36
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mae-skoFrom where can i install library for python? so that import works11:41
comawhiteno idea11:41
mae-skoI'm totally novice to maemo and apt-get tool11:41
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comawhiteshouldn't it be in the sdk?11:41
mae-skoi have "fremantle" and it is not11:42
ali1234the sdk has extra stuff you can install with apt-get11:42
mae-skoIf i just could know how to search .deb packages..11:42
ali1234mae-sko: apt-cache search <pattern>11:42
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ali1234in this case you probably want to apt-get install python-glade211:42
mae-skoheey.. I think Im near solution..11:43
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mae-skoSo the solution was to install python-glade2 not One step forward. Thanks!!11:46
* timeless_mbp sighs11:47
timeless_mbpthe n900 doesn't support tinyarro.ws11:47
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SpeedEvilRather silly site.11:53
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comawhiteE: Downloaded armel rootstrap file failed integrity test.11:56
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timeless_mbpright so um12:03
timeless_mbpi'm back to needing a way to hunt for pids12:03
timeless_mbpin postinst, who's my parent pid?12:03
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Corsactimeless_mbp: $PPID ?12:04
timeless_mbpwell $PPID would *tell me* who my parent is12:04
timeless_mbpbut is dpkg my parent?12:04
timeless_mbpslight distinction12:04
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: I prefer the ebay short URL service.12:05
Corsactimeless_mbp: you mean in a generic way?12:05
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: you obviously didn't get an email asking about IDN support12:05
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: Set $5 bids on all the 4 letter domains.12:05
ali1234timeless_mbp: cat /proc/$PPID/status | grep Name12:05
timeless_mbpali1234: yeah, i'm going to do something like that12:05
timeless_mbpi need to figure out if dpkg and ham are my parents12:05
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timeless_mbpbut it occurs to me that ham isn't going to be my parent12:06
Corsactimeless_mbp: you want to make sure you're run by dpkg and nothing else?12:06
timeless_mbpbecause it probably uses apt-worker12:06
timeless_mbpCorsac: no12:06
timeless_mbpi want to find the process the user picked to install me and wait for it to die12:06
timeless_mbpand then i want to annoy the user12:06
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timeless_mbpi haven't figured out my definition of that yet12:06
Corsaccan't you use a trigger?12:06
timeless_mbpit might be apt or apt-worker12:07
Corsacwhich will run after dpkg work12:07
timeless_mbptrigger sounds nice12:07
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timeless_mbpyep, reading12:07
Corsacthough you might not control precisely when it's run, which might not be ok for you12:07
convultedHey all -- is extras-devel down? I get the "no hash entry in release file" error when I try to update the app manager12:07
timeless_mbpok, not very helpful12:07
timeless_mbpconvulted: it's periodically (albeit chaotically) down12:08
timeless_mbptry again in 5mins is my general rule of thumb12:08
convultedtimeless_mbp: thanks :)12:08
timeless_mbp(and repeat every 5mins until it changes its mind)12:08
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Corsactimeless_mbp: you want to do the reboot thing, not just only ask the user to do it?12:08
timeless_mbpi want to ask the user12:08
timeless_mbpbut i don't want to reboot until dpkg finishes12:08
timeless_mbpa trigger sounds right12:08
timeless_mbpcan i trigger any path/app i like?12:08
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timeless_mbpCorsac: don't suppose you know if dpkg-trigger is actually supported? :)12:09
Corsacyeah, you declare in your trigger which path you're interested in, and when that path is touched, you'll be run eventually12:09
Corsactimeless_mbp: it's supported since lenny, not sure about the dpkg version in fremantle12:10
papoon amazon, the U.S. version of the N900 is available as pre-oder. I'm wondering how the U.S. versions differs from other versions and what other versions exist12:10
timeless_mbppapo: the keyboard sucks less12:10
SpeedEvilpapo: hardware - barring keyb - is identical12:10
timeless_mbpthe product costs less12:10
timeless_mbpyou get much more map data for your money12:10
Corsac1.14.17 is the first trigger version12:10
papoI found a couple of forum posts on that, but the information there is quite inconclusive12:10
timeless_mbp(the map data sucks more, so you're getting more bad data)12:10
timeless_mbppapo: and you get a power adapter which fits into your wall12:11
SpeedEvilTIGER has a lot to answer for.12:11
timeless_mbpthat's about all of the differences12:11
Corsactimeless_mbp: but I don't know how much dpkg is modified in fremantle, too12:11
timeless_mbppapo: oh, the manual/warranty text is likely to be longer and have more legalese :)12:11
timeless_mbpso you're probably paying for a couple of extra dead trees12:11
timeless_mbpCorsac: understood12:11
SpeedEvilAnd in .ch you will have a better returns policy, and maybe warranty12:11
timeless_mbpyou're describing upstream, it's better than nothing12:11
papotimeless_mbp: well the one on amazon is cheaper than what I'd pay for a pre-order in my country. And I'd be sure to have a keyboard with 4 cursor keys12:12
timeless_mbppapo: oh, in the us there are 2 nokia flagship stores12:12
ali1234timeless_mbp: what app is this for?12:12
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Corsacpapo: if you're not in the us, us amazon might not want to ship it to you12:12
timeless_mbppapo: oh, you're not in the .us12:12
infobotali1234 meant: timeless_mbp: what package is this for?12:12
timeless_mbpofficially someone is going to want you to pay an input tax12:12
timeless_mbpali1234: enus112:12
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papoCorsac: according to their website, they would ship it12:12
Corsacwhere are you located?12:13
timeless_mbp=> ali1234  (and optionally Corsac )12:13
papotimeless_mbp: Switzerland. But I'm not sure about the input tax, you're right12:13
timeless_mbpthe reboot bits aren't included yet since they work differently12:13
johnxand you're ok with a plain qwerty keyboard?12:13
timeless_mbppapo: a high level nokia guy was famously arrested for violating import/export laws in .ch12:13
timeless_mbpjohnx: likely12:13
johnxonly other thing to think about is wifi channels, but I think that's set by software12:13
timeless_mbpthe swiss seem to be fairly tolerant12:13
timeless_mbpjohnx: it is set by software12:14
papotimeless_mbp: Polanski is not a nokia guy12:14
Corsacpapo: btw, it'll have less wireless chans available12:14
papoCorsac: hm good point12:14
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johnxbut those channels are just a software setting anyways. easy to "fix" once you get it ;)12:14
convultedCan anyone point me to a changelog (of sorts) between the .42-2 N900 firmware and the current .42-11?12:14
timeless_mbpCorsac: eh? we don't actually make different hardware12:14
timeless_mbpthe only differences are the keymat and the charger12:15
papojohnx: yes I write 7bit clean even in German. Nobody can tell me whether the cursor keys are going to be reduced if I buy it here, so I'm very unsure about what to do12:15
timeless_mbpthe rest is packaging12:15
timeless_mbppapo: the german layout should have only 2 arrow keys12:15
timeless_mbpbecause you want your SS key12:15
timeless_mbpand don't ask me what other key you pay for12:15
papotimeless_mbp: Hm that's what I'm afraid of. Though I've seen some picture with a QWERTZ layout and 4 cursor keys12:15
timeless_mbpi could be wrong, but i was pretty sure12:16
timeless_mbplemme check12:16
Corsactimeless_mbp: yeah but I think you may have a regulation daemon or something which should prevent wireless to go after 1112:16
papotimeless_mbp: We're probably going to want the umlaut keys12:16
papoand yes, the ß12:16
SpeedEvilThe key layout - the actual layout - no thte labels - don't change?12:16
Corsactimeless_mbp: though maybe it's only software12:16
timeless_mbpCorsac: it figures out which area you're in12:16
timeless_mbp(there's syslog or similar spam mentioning detection/change)12:16
timeless_mbpremember, i've been to the us w/ my n900s :)12:16
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timeless_mbpwell, i took 2, only one returned w/ me, the other decided to go to Germany first12:17
papotimeless_mbp: actually it's rather tricky to find out what will be shipped in Germany and even harder for Swotzerland12:17
timeless_mbpare your three wonderful keys12:17
timeless_mbpthat's what you get, and the price you pay is losing up/down arrows12:17
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timeless_mbppapo: Italian, German or French? :)12:18
papotimeless_mbp: Zurich, German part12:18
timeless_mbpi'm assuming your in eastern .ch instead of western12:18
Corsac(was there pictures of the french keyboard?)12:18
timeless_mbppapo: yep12:18
timeless_mbpCorsac: do you want pictures or info?12:18
Corsacjust to see the layout12:18
papotimeless_mbp: Swiss orthography does not include the 'SS'-thing, but Nokia is probably not going to make a special layout for 7 million people12:18
timeless_mbpbesides the keymaps are probably open source on
tbfi clearly prefer pressing fn+sym and tapping ¨ to get umlauts, over loosing arrow keys12:19
Corsacyeah but the hardware keyboard is not in mxr I guess?12:19
timeless_mbpactually, i have no idea how to enter SS12:19
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timeless_mbpCorsac: the mapping probably is12:19
papotimeless_mbp: this is a layout I'd buy12:19
timeless_mbpit's a vkb file12:19
papotimeless_mbp: that's qwertz but with 4 cursor keys12:19
timeless_mbppapo: that's en12:19
timeless_mbpyou can buy it from .us, .uk, .nl12:20
papotimeless_mbp: sure? There's a Z in the top row12:20
papoinstead of a Y12:20
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timeless_mbpthat's broken12:20
convultedtimeless_mbp: do you know anyone I can buzz about the extras-devel issue?12:20
johnxis that a photoshop?12:20
RST38h"Customers of online tat bazaar eBay were on Friday denied the chance to bid for bits of former Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, when the site swiftly pulled a listing for samples of his blood and brain."12:20
timeless_mbpconvulted: it's blogged12:20
timeless_mbpjohnx: it has to be12:20
papojohnx: that's my concern. I have no information about how reliable this picture is12:20
timeless_mbppapo: it doesn't exist12:20
timeless_mbpi'm using the keymap now12:21
papowell awesome then12:21
timeless_mbpthe :'s i mentioned are live12:21
timeless_mbpunless ukeyboard ****d me12:21
tbftimeless_mbp: i've asked mr. input methods about ß12:21
timeless_mbpwhich is possible, but unlikely12:21
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johnxin the most legitimate case it was some kind of one off that someone tested at some point12:21
timeless_mbpspeaking from history12:21
timeless_mbpwe were told that *none* of the localized keyboards would have 4 arrow keys12:22
timeless_mbpand i've been trying to tell devs that for a number of months12:22
timeless_mbpthat little i remember12:22
papohm ok that's not cool... so I definitely have to buy one from uk, us or some other place with 4 arrow keys... I never use umlauts but I imagine myself using the arrows quite a lot12:22
timeless_mbppapo: i could be wrong12:23
timeless_mbpi just highly doubt it :)12:23
convultedtimeless_mbp: hmmm; I only got the irc logs when I googled it12:23
papohm ok12:23
sp3000xkb_symbols "pl" {12:23
sp3000    include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(english_base)"12:23
sp3000    include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(arrows_4btns)"12:23
papotimeless_mbp: any chances to get even more reliable information on that? (Don't get me wrong, this is the most reliable statement I got so far, so thank you for that)12:23
papoit's just that this is rather important to me12:24
timeless_mbppapo: any internal could read the official spec12:24
timeless_mbpi don't want to12:24
sp3000xkb_symbols "de" {12:24
sp3000    include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(english_base)"12:24
sp3000    include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(arrows_2btns)"12:24
timeless_mbpanyone with an n900 can swap to german12:24
tbfpapo: timeless_mbp: official german keyboard layout has up/down on fn+left/right, separate keys for ä, ö, ü at english up, dot and comma12:24
papotbf: of, thank you12:25
tbfpapo: timeless_mbp: ß on german layout is reached via fn+ü12:25
papook I mean12:25
timeless_mbpyeah, i thought it was hidden in an fn12:25
paposo the U.S. version it is, then12:25
timeless_mbpbut i didn't feel like fishing for it12:25
papotbf: and just to be sure, there is no Swiss version, or is it?12:25
timeless_mbppapo: there isn't12:25
tbfpapo: i can check12:25
timeless_mbpwhat's the point12:25
timeless_mbpswiss german, swiss italian, swiss french?12:26
papotimeless_mbp: they do it for keyboards. The point is that I'd have to investigate into the Swiss layout instead of the German one to get answers to my question12:26
timeless_mbpthere's neither a localization nor a region for switzerland12:26
timeless_mbppapo: it isn't in my n900's set12:26
tbfpapo: no, there is no separate swiss layout as far as i can see12:26
timeless_mbpi'm running a slightly out of date version, but we wouldn't have added it12:27
timeless_mbpsorry, your market isn't big enough12:27
timeless_mbpand trust me, our testing would fail, you wouldn't want it anyway :)12:27
timeless_mbpgermany will get better testing12:27
papotimeless_mbp: yes that's what I thought. However, there are *ordinary* keyboards with a distinct layout for de_ch and fr_ch (and probably it_ch even)12:27
papotbf: ok great, then I'm placing my order, thank you :)12:27
timeless_mbpbut given that SS is already hidden on an fn-12:27
timeless_mbpit's not a big deal12:27
timeless_mbpi'm not sure what character you've lost by doing that12:27
timeless_mbpyou can always replace the keyboard layouts12:28
timeless_mbpukeyboard (often broken, but..) does that12:28
papoyeah but I don't feel very comfortable with using a keyboard with a different layout. US on a US keyboard is fine and Swiss on a Swiss keyboard as well, but I get utterly confused if the keyboard has different labels than what is actually appearing on the screen12:29
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timeless_mbpok, i probably overstepped12:30
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timeless_mbpmy statements only apply to the n900 as it should be in stores today12:30
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timeless_mbphypothetically an n900 that might be sold with some future software version might be different12:31
timeless_mbpa case that won't happen but would work for example:12:31
timeless_mbpthe n900 today doesn't offer Brazilian Portuguese12:31
timeless_mbphypothetically we could have updated software which includes it12:31
timeless_mbp(we almost certainly won't see lawsuit over 'ovi', but it works as a hypothetical)12:32
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timeless_mbps/won't see/won't -- see/12:32
infobottimeless_mbp meant: (we almost certainly won't -- see lawsuit over 'ovi', but it works as a hypothetical)12:32
timeless_mbpanyway, purchasing a phone is a big decision12:32
timeless_mbpit's ~720USD or 900USD (if you prefer to pay in EUR)12:32
timeless_mbpif you need a phone _now_ and think the n900 is the phone for you, then waiting doesn't make sense12:33
timeless_mbpif you like your current phone and are willing to let others shake out the bugs while you suffer with your older phone, that's your choice :)12:33
timeless_mbp(the 720USD is 650USD list price + tax v. 600 EUR at a 1.5USD : 1EUR exchange, vat assumed, shipping not included)12:34
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timeless_mbpis the official answer for the keymap12:36
timeless_mbpsorry, i'm not very good at browsing through that tree12:36
convultedtimeless_mbp: do you know if there is something I can do to be able to use extras-devel, or should I just wait?12:36
timeless_mbpi knew it was there, and i was staring at the symbols/ directory12:36
timeless_mbpconvulted: so, the problem afaiu is that the autobuilder randomly corrupts the repo db12:37
timeless_mbpand a future autobuilder build can fix it12:37
timeless_mbpmy assumption has been that such things happen periodically12:37
timeless_mbpi could be wrong12:37
timeless_mbpyou should be able to do work manually if you don't mind the extra work12:37
convultedtimeless_mbp: ah ok, so waiting is the answer :S ... back to work then :)12:37
timeless_mbpit depends on how desperate you are12:37
timeless_mbpi could be wrong, ... but i don't think so (audio:monk)12:38
convultednot too much, actually; i'd just like to see whether my package works (first package...)12:38
timeless_mbpdid you build it locally or only w/ the builder?12:38
convultedi used py2deb (yes, yes, python) and submitted it to the builder12:39
timeless_mbppapo: polanski is the director12:39
timeless_mbpi'm talking about some nokian who did something stupid many years ago12:39
convultedinterestingly, i got no email from the autobuilder saying the build succeeded, but it says build successful on the web12:39
timeless_mbpit's in nokia lore12:39
convultedso I might have broken it :)12:39
* timeless_mbp frowns12:40
timeless_mbpi can't find the name of that guy12:40
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki / tbf / sp3000 : pointers? :)12:40
Lynouretimeless_mbp: there has been only one Nokian that did anything stupid? =)12:42
timeless_mbpin switzerland! that i've heard of !12:42
timeless_mbpinvolving customs.12:43
Lynouretimeless_mbp: and you don't mean the Nokia chick that went ballistic with a gun in 2000 or so?12:43
timeless_mbpnope, haven't heard about that one12:43
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure this was some high level nokian12:43
murraycWas that for being called a chick?12:43
timeless_mbpwho bought some very very expensive item in switzerland12:43
timeless_mbpand then didn't declare it when he went through customs12:43
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skrankkikallasvuo ^^12:46
VDVsxjeremiah, ping12:47
timeless_mbpskrankki: thanks :)12:48
timeless_mbpwait, is he the current CEO?12:48
timeless_mbpoh yeah. opk12:48
timeless_mbp("i love this company")12:49
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timeless_mbpLynoure: see, he's famous :)12:49
suihkulokkiLynoure: you mean sanna sillanpää?12:50
timeless_mbpi like the disclaimer at the bottom of that post :)12:51
adeusonly drug dealers and programmers call their customers users12:53
_|Nix|_Hey! Will extras-devel ever be fixed? I don't want to have to promote every package to extras-testing just to test a real, live-fire upgrade ...12:54
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convulted_|Nix|_: Glad I'm not the only one with the issue...12:55
alteregoWhat's wrong with extras-devel?12:55
convultedalterego: Cannot update the package list on the device ("no hash entry in release file" error)12:56
_|Nix|_alterego: Yeah. That.12:56
_|Nix|_It's been that way for, like, what is it now, a week?12:56
_|Nix|_... and only on armel.12:56
_|Nix|_The x86 repo works fine.12:57
convulted_|Nix|_: It was working on Saturday night (Europe)12:57
Stskeepsmaybe you hit when armel uploads are getting done?12:57
Stskeepsjeremiah: ^12:57
zaheermarmel one was fine last night12:57
_|Nix|_I dunno ... I just tried it again. Broken.12:57
moo__is there good tutorial how to create distribution .deb from the scratch for new application?12:57
convultedStskeeps: How long would that be expected to take?12:57
moo__i.e. i am not porting any existing linux/debian application12:57
* _|Nix|_ is updating repos on his N900 ...12:58
alteregomoo__: there's a maemo on, but the debian package maintainer guide is probably a good place to start really.12:58
_|Nix|_Fark! Now extras-testing has the same problem!12:58
Lynouresuihkulokki: yes, that one.12:59
_|Nix|_So, both extras-testing and extras-devel fail with the same "No Hash entry in Release file" problem ...12:59
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_|Nix|_This really, really sux0rz ...13:01
convultedSeconded. Anything we can do?13:01
_|Nix|_I dunno who's responsible for the repos.13:01
timeless_mbpbtw, is something i need to mention the next time someone bothers me about sorting13:02
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suihkulokkiLynoure: iirc she worked for novo (or some other big it consulting house)13:02
Lynouresuihkulokki: hmm.13:02
Stskeeps_|Nix|_: jeremiah & X-Fade (X-Fade is on holiday)13:02
_|Nix|_Well, considering jeremiah hasn't chimed in, I guess he's not around either.13:03
suihkulokkiLynoure: because I worked for one big consulting house then and I remember it was our competitor13:03
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Lynouresuihkulokki: Could be.13:07
* timeless_mbp chuckles13:07
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timeless_mbp_|Nix|_: anyway, you basically get to wait13:08
timeless_mbpsorry :)13:08
timeless_mbpyou could run a mirror and build your own pkgdb13:09
_|Nix|_Interestingly, apt-get update with extras-devel works on scratchbox armel, just not on the device. Also, extras-testing works again ...13:09
timeless_mbp_|Nix|_: it's a chaotic problem13:11
timeless_mbpthe index is being relatively constantly rebuilt and corrupted13:11
timeless_mbpso timing is everything :)13:11
timeless_mbp -- i wonder if that was w3:tpac13:11
_|Nix|_Great ... have they heard of this algorithm: "Do everything you need in a temporary_location && mv temporary_location permanent_location"?13:12
timeless_mbpi think they've heard of an algorithm called "buy more hardware"13:13
lardmananother 770! yay!13:13
timeless_mbpwhich seems to rely on "waiting"13:13
* Stskeeps pokes his dead dead sb213:15
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* timeless_mbp tries to use a dpkg-trigger13:17
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timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: i still need binary hacking help :)13:17
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convultedjeremiah: Could you check the extras-devel repo please?13:22
JaffaMorning, all13:23
convulted_|Nix|_: Update worked now...13:23
_|Nix|_convulted: Including extras-devel?13:23
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convulted_|Nix|_: apt-get update worked13:23
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lardmanjeremiah: You're back!13:32
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lardmanjeremiah: Can you advise me on some debainsationeration please?13:32
comawhiteI installed the libqt4-maemo5-dev qt4-dev-tools but somehow it can't find qmake13:38
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comawhitenevermind I had to run /opt/qt4-maemo5/qmake to get it13:40
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tbfcomawhite: with autotroll you could tell configure once where to find Qt :-D --- well, but maybe not the right thing unless you prefer autotools over other build systems13:42
comawhiteI actually prefer cmake13:42
comawhitejust wanted to easily test qt-4.6 out13:42
SpeedEvildelicious cake.13:42
comawhitetbf, I don't fuck with autohell13:43
lardmanman after my own heart ;)13:43
murraycYeah, who wants things to work anyway.13:43
tbfcomawhite: i don't get why people prefer imperative build systems over declarative build systems13:43
comawhitetbf, because it's difficult to understand and not cross platform13:44
tbfcomawhite: people how use cmake also could just write shell scripts to build their stuff13:44
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comawhitecmake > autohell :P13:44
lardmanmurrayc: it's just those cases where it doesn't "just work" that are the annoying ones ;)13:44
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tbfcomawhite: cmake == an untalented undergrade's work13:45
murrayclardman: Unfortunately I've found that cmake doesn't work for my simple cases. And qmake doesn't even try to solve the simplest build problems.13:45
tbffrom conceptional POV13:45
lardmanoh i wasn't talking about cmake, just about autotools13:45
comawhiteplus my app is a KDE4 app so I have to use cmake anyways ;)13:45
murraycYeah, it's complicated. I'm happy enough with it now though.13:45
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tbflardman: you just make the mistake of abusing google for finding autotools documentation13:45
murraycI wish we could easily stop ourselves from using deprecated autotools syntax, to make google show cleaner examples.13:46
tbflardman: those days google has the bad habit of top-ranking only crap when it comes to technical topics13:46
murraycYeah, it prefers conversations to reference documentation.13:46
comawhitetbf, and if we can get people to stop using that horrible thing called Gtk also :P13:46
lardmanyeah, well I think part of my problem is the mysteries of debianisation, whose docs are almost as good ;)13:46
lardmancomawhite: np there as long as I don't have to use that horrible thing called C++13:47
tbfcomawhite: when will qt get a reasonable signal system?13:47
comawhiteC++ is better than C :P13:47
tbfcomawhite: LOL!13:47
lardmanyou're on to a looser there13:47
comawhitetbf, you do know they invented the signal/slots ;)13:47
tbfcomawhite: just would be nice, if they wouldn't have implemented that stuff in a style that makes you think they stopped following computer science somewhere in the 60er's13:48
tbfcomawhite: keyword "encapsulation"13:48
tbfcomawhite: i really don't get why every signal handler (aka slot) has to be public13:49
tbfcomawhite: yes, you can hide the slot's C++ signature with "private slot:"13:49
tbfcomawhite: but the signal still remains invokable by entire world by it's qualified name13:49
comawhitewell you have to understand boost, gtk, .NET took the idea too ;)13:50
* lardman wonders whether to bring up vi vs vim....13:50
tbfcomawhite: just that in every other platform you can have __private__ signal handlers13:50
comawhitelardman, I use neither :P13:50
lardmanjust taking the piss don;'t worry13:50
tbfcomawhite: slots/signal handlers really are implementation details which don't belong into the public interface13:51
comawhitetbf, then use pimpl13:52
comawhitelike qt and kde use13:52
cosmois new years eve public holiday in usa?13:53
tbfcomawhite: lol! Qt rediscovered G_TYPE_INSTANCE_GET_PRIVATE13:53
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comawhitecosmo, yes?13:54
comawhitetbf, how about Gtk discover NOT_REINVENT_THE_OOP_WHEEL13:54
cosmook.. i wonder if they do segway tours in new years eve :)13:54
comawhitei have no idea13:55
tbfcomawhite: hmm? wtf?13:55
tbfcomawhite: you are not seriously one of those kids who think OOP is a language feature?13:55
comawhitetbf, gtk+ has to reivent the oop wheel just do gui13:56
comawhitetbf, it's already in C++ why add it to C13:56
tbfcomawhite: because OOP is an useful design pattern?13:56
tbfcomawhite: because C++ gets OOP entirely wrong?13:56
epa_did anyone implement yet the "Shift + Space" producing '|' character yet?13:57
comawhiteanyways lets change subject13:57
epa_would be way handier than gettting it trought the symbol table.13:57
comawhitewill networking work in the emulator?13:57
tbfcomawhite: i am pretty sure 90% most C users would immediately start using C++ if bjarne wouldn't have created such mess13:58
comawhiteC is a mess too13:58
comawhiteC++ is only a mess because bjarne wanted backwards compatibility13:58
comawhitewith C13:58
tbfcomawhite: aha. not virtual methods, non virtual destructors, operator overloading, copy constructors by default, references vs. pointers, ...13:59
tbf...that all was caused by backwards compatibility13:59
tbfcomawhite: no, bjarne just is a bad language designer. and i am sure he knows. too bad the fanboys who pick up his language don't realize.14:00
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tbfhmm. and if C++ is the awesome, why does every stupid little framework invent it's own container framework for instance?14:01
tbf(bonus points for Qt containers to be STL compatible, btw)14:02
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tbfback to this boring code review work.14:03
RST38hcomawhite: Hey, there are C clones that break backward compatibility!14:03
comawhitefuck slowva14:04
* RST38h laughs diabolically14:04
RST38htbf: That is because every stupid little C++ programmer thinks he can do things better than previous little stupid C++ programmers14:05
comawhitetbf, because compilers still use pre-ansi stl, sun studio 5 still doesn't fully support C++9814:05
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RST38htbf: Also see: build systems, Linux audio frameworks14:05
comawhiteRST38h, well at least Nokia is doing it right with Qt unlike wxWidgets14:05
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RST38hWhat is Sun Studio 5? Is it something DJs use?14:06
comawhitesome stupid Sun's C++ compiler14:06
tbfcomawhite: Qt >>>>>>^7 trillions wxWidgets14:06
comawhitetbf, I agree14:06
RST38hWho cares about it then? Why bring it up?14:06
tbf"Sun" what?14:06
comawhitethe one who invented Java?14:07
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tbfcomawhite: yes, just was pointing to the irrelevance of their proprietary compiler14:08
adeusdio frameworks14:09
adeus[14:05:43] < comawhite> RST38h, well at least Nokia is doing it right with Qt unlike wxWidgets14:09
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comawhitefailed :P14:09
comawhitebut anyways, each to their own14:10
javispedro"Besides, even a iPhone that sent stuff to another planet and got a reply, can’t beat a Linux running Nokia N900 with built-in full root access."14:10
comawhitewell from what I seen n900 owns the iphone :P14:10
javispedron900 fanboyism extendingto slashdot....  aim for cover.14:10
comawhitejust too bad $565 price tag :(14:10
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adeusknowing Nokia that will drop fast14:11
comawhiteI hope so14:11
glass_iirc i saw a headline of it dropping to 4xx already14:11
comawhiteright now, I'm stuck with just an emulator14:11
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javispedroNOT AN EMULATOR!!14:11
comawhitethe SDK isn't an emulator?14:12
comawhitewell you know what I mean14:12
* javispedro looks around to see if crash and die (spaced not to ping him) is around or not ;)14:12
wazdRST38h: have you received any details on tomorrows event?14:13
wazdjavispedro: he definitely has ping detector on "die" :D14:14
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javispedrossssh then ;P14:15
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* kirma enjoys his n900... whole hour now14:17
viggiI can't wait to have mine :|14:17
kirmacow-orkers seem to be interested14:17
comawhiteviggi, me either14:17
aquatixit does have an onscreen keyboard too btw?14:17
aquatixmy girlfriend is interested (yeah, i was amazed too)14:18
comawhiteas long as I have msn, irc, yahoo, aim and web I'll be happy14:18
kirmaonscreen keyboard is optional on landscape mode14:18
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ShapeshifterHow long did it take from the release of the n800 to the release of the n810 and could that be a representative scale for a possible release of a "n910" of sorts? Because it is possible that the n900 wont release here until mid-january, and in that case I'm thinking I'll just go for another phone for now (something android) and get the n900 follow up in half a year or so.14:19
* javispedro watches someone confuse "alias" field in bugzilla with "nickname"14:19
Shapeshifterbecause it seems to me there are quite a few things to improve hardware wise on the n900.14:19
javispedrohardware wise? other than battery life...14:19
MyrttiShapeshifter: your guesses are as good as ours, we do not own a crystal ball14:19
Shapeshifterand if nokia is cool they'd release a remake of the n900 which is slimmer and all that stuff.14:19
vigginokia is cool.14:20
Shapeshifterjavispedro: slimmer, better screen, better keyboard, compass....14:20
StskeepsShapeshifter: no. helly kitty shell.14:20
Stskeepshello kitty, i mean14:20
tbfShapeshifter: did you actually have a n900 in your hands already?14:20
comawhiteStskeeps, I want that ;P j/k14:20
Shapeshiftertbf: no.14:20
javispedrobetter screen? better keyboard?14:20
tbfShapeshifter: the device is smaller than you might expect by reading the specs14:20
comawhiteI want a cheaper price tag14:20
Shapeshifterokay I'll stop. But, at least my first question was valid ;) How long from the n800 to the n810?14:21
MyrttiI want a kitten14:21
comawhitei want a taco14:21
ShapeshifterI want an n900?14:21
tbfShapeshifter: even fits into your shirt's breast pocket14:21
javispedromake it "worse screen" (capacitive), "worse battery life" (compass) and you may be nearer what the n900 + 1 will be ;)14:21
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kalikianatoliWhat about a hello kitty theme for n900 with taco icons?14:21
lardmanwell compass wuold be good14:22
lardmankalikianatoli: I'd consider that a regression14:22
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Stskeepsgod, i love my rsync->mkfs.ubifs util14:22
Stskeepsallows me to snapshot my n90014:22
viggicompass.. hm, don't you already have gps on the n900?14:22
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lardmanys, but gps!=compass14:22
aquatixcompass is rather nice to have14:22
tbfviggi: well, a real compass might react faster than GPS14:22
tbfviggi: GPS can take quite some time to figure out your position and orientation14:23
viggiI read somewhere that the gps is pretty quick on it14:23
adeuscan it figure out your orientation?14:23
t_s_othe only way a gps can get orientation is if you move in some direction, and then it will assume your pointing in the direction of movement until the next movement...14:23
IcanCUi want skype video calls on a mobile phone14:24
wazd"Welcome to the N900 meet-up !"14:24
javispedroI want digital barometric altimeter14:24
lardmangps is pretty quick with assistance14:24
wazdah, at least I'm not fucked up here :D14:24
viggijavispedro: lol14:24
lardmanjavispedro: that's not particularly useful though14:24
Shapeshifterjavispedro: by better screen, I mean multitouch capable.14:24
Shapeshifterresistive is fine by me.14:24
* aquatix wants a termometer and a sundial14:24
javispedroShapeshifter: well nokia has already say they're going for capacitive.14:25
Shapeshifterand a compass is total win for street view and such stuff.14:25
lardmanaquatix: I imagine there is a thermometer somewhere in the chipset14:25
MyrttiI want my N910 to have a kitten in it.14:25
Shapeshifterjavispedro: mh. Well. I guess I don't care.14:25
Myrttiotherwise Nokia is shit.14:25
wazdRST38h: "We will provide some nibble food and N900 demos" Run for your life :D14:25
MyrttiI can haz kitten?14:25
IcanCU*a kitten that purs14:25
aquatixlardman: yeah, n810 has one in the screen, but that's skewed by design14:25
javispedrono kitten? dealbreaker!!14:25
ShapeshifterMyrtti: I'm sure there's an app for the iphone for that.14:25
aquatixas the screen generates warmth itself14:25
wazdShapeshifter: fart != purr14:26
Shapeshifterwazd: lol14:26
MyrttiI want a _furry_ kitten14:26
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Shapeshiftera farting kitten?14:26
aquatixMyrtti: every kitten gets furry eventually14:26
t_s_omore like barfing hairballs...14:26
aquatixeven if it doesn't pur anymore14:26
wazdt_s_o: eeeeeeeeeeeew14:26
IcanCUits hurts my balls when she licks14:26
* Shapeshifter is still wondering if he should get a screen protector for the n900.14:27
aquatixIcanCU: ...14:27
ShapeshifterI fear the sensitivity will drop hard.14:27
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SpeedEvilYou get naked kittens14:27
Shapeshifterand I'm taking good care of the device anyway.14:27
aquatixi wonder how scratch resistent the screen is14:27
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: IMO - it doesn't affect much14:27
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: and it means that one grain of sand trapped in your nail doesn't scratch irreversably14:27
ShapeshifterI'll always keep it in a pouch though, so I figure I might not need one.14:28
aquatixthe boxwave ones are great14:28
* nomis points to
aquatixShapeshifter: i've used screen protectors with all my resistive touchscreen bearing devices14:28
aquatixit's nice not to worry about sharp thingees on your nails14:28
aquatixlike sand14:28
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SpeedEvilShapeshifter: No - a grain of sand getting on your fingernail - when you go to swipe the screen forex.14:29
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SpeedEvilUnless you keep your hands in pouches too.14:29
* SpeedEvil realises Shapeshifter is really a kangaroo.14:29
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ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: I'm many things to many people.14:29
Shapeshifteror something...14:29
aquatixyou're a woman?14:30
Shapeshifterbut boxwave doesn't have one for the n900 yet.14:30
Shapeshifteraquatix: nah.14:30
javispedrohe's the medium ,he's the message, he's the one14:30
aquatixShapeshifter: ah :( well, i guess they will have soon14:30
SpeedEvilWhat sort of massage?14:30
Myrttithere is no spoon14:30
javispedroa $5 massage14:31
ShapeshifterMaybe I'll get a durasec instead14:31
* SpeedEvil has ordered a protector.14:31
* javispedro is waiting for brando14:31
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SpeedEvil (protector)14:33
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xorAxAxdo they have bags as well?14:35
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SpeedEvilI don't think so14:35
nomisis there no sleeve/bag included with the N900?14:35
xorAxAxthe n810 had one but i couldnt find the sleeve on the packing list for the n90014:36
xorAxAxcan somebody confirm this?14:36
viggioh the horror14:36
aquatixneed a sock then :)14:36
SpeedEvilwell - you could use ...14:36
xorAxAxare they large enough?14:36
aquatixxorAxAx: two socks then14:36
xorAxAxi mean the SpeedEvil ones14:37
aquatixah ;)14:37
mihuxorAxAx: I can confirm that the N900 package neither contains a bog nor a sleeve. Just a tissue for cleaning the screen.14:37
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: I have no idea - I thought that was about the same size as an ipod classic14:38
xorAxAxsee, so everybody needs to buy socks14:38
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: Check of course14:38
SpeedEvilxorAxAx: Why? I have several.14:38
SpeedEvilwearing 4 ATM.14:38
xorAxAxits 7 mm longer and 8 mm thicker14:40
ShapeshifterI think I'll get 5x durasec cleartec14:40
viggii'll need to buy shirts with breastpockets on them :F14:40
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Shapeshifteror I'll wait for the boxwave ones.14:42
moo__where can I get dh_make?14:42
moo__is there a maemo specific version available?14:43
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: I'd get any screen protector that will fit ASAP14:43
lardmanjust stick it in your pocket and avoid keys and the like14:44
lardmanmine is, touch wood, still unscathed14:44
lardmanviggi: breast pockets with braces, as it's rather dense still14:44
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: I don't even have the phone14:45
Shapeshiftermight well be until end december14:45
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zaheermmoo__, install debhelper14:47
xorAxAxis there a page that explains how to build packages for maemo 5?14:48
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moo__zaheerm: thanks!14:51
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xorAxAxcan i still use my old scratchbox environment?14:52
kalikianatolixorAxAx, basically just debian packagin, plus additional fileds in control, which you can see in any maemo package source14:52
xorAxAxkalikianatoli: yes, but in which environment do i execute the dpkg commands? in a scratchbox, right?14:53
kalikianatolidepending on how old your old sbox is, you will need to upgrade the packages14:53
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Shapeshifterlolwut. The nokia mail client on the n900 can't search mails?15:00
* Shapeshifter thinks about using mutt. -.-15:00
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind a good gmail client :P15:01
bleadera browser ? :p15:01
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papotbf, timeless: this keeps getting odder and odder, even the official picture at has the nonexistent layout:
rangeMaybe that's why isn't shipping yet >:)15:09
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paporange: actually according to some stores, it should be available in early December in Switzerland. But it turned out that they ship a version which a keyboard I wouldn't like that much :(15:11
Shapeshifterpapo: I don't think it'll be here in early december15:11
Shapeshifterthat would be a miracle.15:12
Shapeshifterpapo: your probably read at digitec that mobilezone staff said end december/begin january even.15:12
kalikianatolipapo, that doesn't have any umlauts. makes you wonder if they ripped out the z to swap it :-P15:12
Shapeshifteralthough mobilezone sure isn't a prime source >.>15:12
kalikianatolipapo, also note the display shows English strings15:14
lbtyay..... Barcelona...15:14
papoShapeshifter: no, I had some email exchange with product managers while asking for the keyboard. I'm just replicating what they said; from previous experiences, I'd highly doubt the credibility of that information15:14
papokalikianatoli: My problem is that I don't want the german keyboard15:14
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Shapeshifterpapo: soooner or later, digitec might offer the US keyboard15:15
Shapeshifterif demand is there15:15
Shapeshifterbut I wouldn't bet on it.15:15
lbtpapo: send me some money and I'll buy you a UK one and I *promise* to mail it to you15:15
papoShapeshifter: even though I didn't explicitly ask for for QWERTY version, they said that it was not clear whether they'd ship that one day15:15
papoShapeshifter: to be clear, I asked them about the keyboard layout.  The replied a load of stuff but actually failed to answer my question15:16
papolbt: sure :)15:16
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kalikianatolipapo, be careful, he didn't say *when* he would mail it ;)15:17
papoShapeshifter: FYI15:18
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papoShapeshifter: as you can see, I rephrased my question twice but they didn't get it15:19
Shapeshifterpapo: well.15:24
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Shapeshifterpapo: mh, he says that begin of december is "sure"15:30
Shapeshifterhow can they ever be "sure".15:30
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paposure. Look at how he answered my question15:31
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papothat's the best advertisement for non-credibility actually15:31
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Shapeshifterwhat about this rumour that the n900 will go up in smoke if held at 600mhz?15:51
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GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, not a rumor.15:52
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, overvoltage.15:52
CoreFusion-Wasn't that told at the summit, don't do it15:52
GeneralAntillesJust don't screw around with your power management settings and the device will handle itself just fine.15:52
GeneralAntillesIgor said that.15:52
tigertkept my n900 in gsm network, but no usage or internet, shows full battery after a workday15:53
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hrw - check photos ;D15:53
hrwfirst n900 fake on auction sale ;D15:53
Shapeshifterhrw: huh15:54
tigertphotos shaky "by accident" I bet :)15:55
Myrtti"MMS Tak"15:55
GeneralAntillesJust, fyi, while loading and playing back a YouTube video.
ShapeshifterMyrtti: that means MMS - yes.15:55
MyrttiShapeshifter: aka: FAIL15:56
lardmanmy wife yesterday again commented on the crapness of my phone due to lack of MMS15:56
zaheermGeneralAntilles, can you do same benchmark with zoutube while it plays back?15:56
GeneralAntilleslardman, lol.15:57
alteregoHah, can she not email?15:57
alteregoI've not sent _one_ MMS in my entire life ..15:57
Myrttialterego: email is not a viable option for everyone15:57
GeneralAntillesI've sent one.15:57
lardmanprobably can, but didn;t want to15:57
jaskai think ive received two mms15:57
zaheermit's true tho, quite a few people use mms15:57
jaskasent none15:57
GeneralAntillesThe quality was so useless I've never bothered sending a second.15:58
hrwalterego: I've sent many15:58
zaheermcomes out of normal tarriffs and most people can receive them15:58
alteregoMyrtti: more people have email than MMS :P15:58
lardmananyway she sent me one and it's now lost in the ether15:58
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hrwwhen cost of sms == cost of mms then sending 1000 chars for price of 160 makes difference15:58
lardmannot more people walking around I'll bet15:58
Myrttialterego: more people have mms capable phones and mms plans than data plans15:58
alteregoMMS costs me a _lot_ more than SMS15:58
lardmancosts me 1.5x SMS iirc, and I get millions of those free every month so no worries15:59
zaheermit comes out of my text allowance15:59
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zaheermand my text allowance avergae is 10% used15:59
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lardmans/free/included for the pedants15:59
Myrttiif an mms costs 1.79€ per bang, it still costs less to send three of those than to buy a data package for a month for 9.80 or pay by megabyte with ridiculous ratesd15:59
lardmanyeah, I think I have 1k/month15:59
lardmanno way I could use that15:59
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lardmanperhaps 500, still far out of my texting reach16:00
Shapeshifterdoes the n900 provide facilities to send SMS from the command line? At least through dbus?16:01
Myrttithe probability of people without dataplan buying a N900 is small, I agree, but MMS has its usecases16:01
alteregoWell, my operator charges me about 35p per MMS, and I have unlimited inclusive SMS16:01
alteregoI don't think so, MMS is shit16:01
adeusit was dead on arrival16:01
alteregoUpload to flicker and send them a link16:01
Myrttialterego: and so many people in the world don't agree16:01
alteregoEveryone should have a dataplan.16:01
Myrttialterego: why?16:01
alteregoMyrtti: you don't agree, you've not asked all the other people in the world.16:01
Myrttialterego: my sister wouldn't do jack shit with the dataplan16:01
glass_mms is like a shitty dataplan16:02
papoalterego: actually I had one single experience in my life where MMS was actually helpful16:02
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: uhm what?16:02
lardmanmms is for stuff you don't necessarily want to share with the world on flickr16:02
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: I saw that. Yes.16:02
alteregopapo: :)16:02
Myrttishe doesn't use facebook on her phone, doesn't check her email on the run, doesn't need to be online16:02
papoalterego: I was driving home from a barbecue party and realized that I forgot a decent steak there. So I sent an SMS to a friend which still was there and told him he could eat my meat16:02
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, look more closely, thanks. :)16:02
alteregoMyrtti: she doesn't think she doesn't need to be.16:02
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, and I'll do the same!16:03
alteregoGive her the chance, give her an N900 with a data plan and I bet she'll be on facebook all day :P16:03
lardmanpapo: unfortunate choice of words! :D16:03
Myrttialterego: and she doesn't have the funds to get a dataplan.16:03
* GeneralAntilles should put his glasses on.16:03
papoalterego: and then he answered with an MMS-picture of the thing and I could confirm this was the right one16:03
Myrttialterego: I'm not made of gold16:03
papolardman: uh true16:03
alteregoNice story, but, well, still rather unnecessary16:04
Stskeepslardman: ping16:04
lardmanStskeeps: pong16:04
RST38hMurdoch considers delisting from Google Search, being paid by MS =)16:04
adeusis that a threat or a promise16:05
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Myrttianyway, she's happy with her s40 phone16:05
Myrttiand isn't likely to buy a smart phone any time soon16:05
Stskeepslardman: check your mail16:05
adeusI've never managedo to send a mms16:05
lardmanStskeeps: if you've sent me a message, my email seems to not be receiving atm and this irc client is crap and may not have shown a PM :)16:05
alteregoWell, my dataplan is about 100 MMS messages in price.16:05
Stskeepslardman: ah, lovely16:05
adeuseither my sendin fails or the receiving end doesn't get it16:05
ali1234adeus: it probably isn't enabled on your account16:05
alteregoAnd I have unlimited inclusive data, unlimited texts and 600 minutes.16:06
lardmanactually PMs are working I now see16:06
adeusali1234, yes16:06
lardmanStskeeps: I tell a lie, just turned up16:06
adeusali1234, and I've complained about it Nth times16:06
adeusthen I started to sens emails16:06
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zaheermGeneralAntilles, cool so can i conclude from that, that zoutube is better for power efficiency than the flash plugin in-browser?16:06
adeusproblem disappappeared :P16:06
GeneralAntilleszaheerm, clearly. ;)16:06
lardmanStskeeps: cool, will do some hacking this evening then :)16:06
GeneralAntilleszaheerm, but, who's surprised? ;)16:06
zaheermGeneralAntilles, true :)16:06
Stskeepslardman: thanks - it's completely out of my league. did the internal omapfb get disabled or something in kernel?16:07
zaheermGeneralAntilles, thx for the benchmarking, what tool did you use for it?16:07
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GeneralAntillesSo it's not much of a benchmark, but vaguely interesting for power states.16:07
lardmanStskeeps: no clue, but should have some more this evening I hope16:07
zaheermaah i should install that16:07
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* zaheerm wants to promote zoutube now to extras-testing16:07
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Stskeepslardman: thanks. let me know16:08
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adeusI heard that because of copyright issues mms messages can not be automatically scaled/tranformed to be supported on the other side16:10
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adeusthis was the reason that operator-operator messages were practically broken at least first16:10
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GeneralAntillesSo, it seems confirmed that there's no warranty on the DDP.16:17
GeneralAntillesJust, FYI, to anybody who's ordered.16:17
GeneralAntillesN900 discount program16:18
GeneralAntillesWhich, weren't we moving away from using "Developer" in that. . . .16:18
penguinb82device discount program16:18
GeneralAntillesAh, right.16:18
Corsac(I'll make sure not to break the device I don't have)16:18
Stskeepslardman: i see a define for omaplcd 240x320, probably not the right resolutiom (embedded/omap24xx_lcd/kernel)16:18
* GeneralAntilles should still put his glasses on.16:18
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papoShapeshifter: Hm interesting, this one seems to come with a QWERTY layout:
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Shapeshifterpapo: mhh, interesting16:23
lardmanStskeeps: ok16:23
Shapeshifterpapo: but well, I'll buy it subsidised, so I guess expansys is not an option.16:24
lardmanStskeeps: will have to save if for this evening I'm afraid, busy doing day-job atm16:24
lardmanI also wonder whether they've got the fb location wrong16:24
lardmanbut will check later on16:24
papoShapeshifter: Hm no plans for subsidies here, but still not sure :)16:25
ShapeshifterDoes anyone know how to get sqlite3 into python in the SDK? ( :|16:30
lizardoShapeshifter: which python2.5 version you have installed ?16:31
lizardoShapeshifter: the "error" you mention is just a warning, no problem there :)16:32
Stskeepslardman: are there any other knowledged people in mbx than you and javispedro? can't recall who investigated a lot back the16:32
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lizardoShapeshifter: I have 2.5.4-1maemo3 here and "import sqlite3" works on it16:32
lardmanhe wrote some code to switch the chipset on16:33
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lizardoShapeshifter: also make sure you are calling "python2.5" , not just "python"16:33
Stskeeps~seen ph516:33
infobotph5 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 3d 21h 1m 24s ago, saying: 'hi woglinde'.16:33
lardmanI've got an email for him, hang on a tick16:33
Shapeshifterlizardo: ohhh, that was the problem, I just called "python"16:33
Shapeshifterlizardo: thanks!16:33
moo__what dependencies I need to list in debian control file if I build Qt app for N900?16:33
lizardoShapeshifter: np ;)16:34
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, what's progress on the drivers?16:35
vesais it possible to use binary shaders on the n900?16:35
Shapeshifterthis is amazing16:35
ShapeshifterI _love_ this.16:35
ShapeshifterI just ran the python calendar I wrote on the SDK and it just works xD16:36
Shapeshifteroooh joy16:36
lardmananyone bored?16:36
CorsacI love when people are amazed by thing working correctly :) We live in a world where it's the exception16:36
lardmanI quite fancy a game of battlegwled, anyone want to package it for fremantle? ;)16:36
ShapeshifterCorsac: ^^16:36
Shapeshiftermhh. Is there a hildonized Qt theme on the repos?16:37
ShapeshifterOr how would I best apply a hildonized qt theme to qt? It seems like there's no qtconfig on maemo.16:37
GeneralAntilleslardman, somebody should talk to INdT.16:38
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: I guess Stskeeps has sorted that through Nokia16:39
lardmanthe game you mean?16:39
Flandry_sorted how?16:39
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Shapeshifterahh this is so awesome. Gives me a huge motivational boost in finishing this calendar.16:39
ShapeshifterI quite fancy it.16:39
lardmanignore me, wires crossed16:39
ShapeshifterNeed to optimize it for maemo.16:40
lardmansetanta: ping16:40
lardmansetanta: any chance of a Fremantle version of battlegweled?16:40
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moo__are there instructions how to set up cross-compilation scratchbox over WLAN? USB networking is major pain in the ass and seems to require R&D mode16:47
setantalardman|gone, i'm no longer the maintainer (but I suppose my name is still there)16:51
setantaI will check who have taken it16:51
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Flandry_Can anyone successfully view this page:
Flandry_I get a PHP error every time16:58
CoreFusion-is t.m.o down?16:59
CoreFusion-just very very slow16:59
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timeless_mbpi got bug 6300 :)17:02
povbotBug http:// is converted into some strange frowny face17:02
timeless_mbpand i wasn't even trying17:02
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I really wish you could turn those damn smilies off.17:05
GeneralAntillesThey don't respect the autocomplete settings, either.17:06
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GeneralAntillesFlandry_, no.17:11
GeneralAntillesTimeout here.17:11
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Flandry_No PHP error, just timeout?17:13
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GeneralAntillesPHP error could be a timeout on another machine17:14
sp3000yeah the yellow discs make it hard to tell what people are saying17:14
Flandry_Yeah probably, it's a timeout PHP error, it's just consistent for this package and not my other one so i think there's something more to it.17:14
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povbotBug 6301: PHP Error when trying to view package instance page to promote.17:14
GeneralAntillesYeah, PHP now17:14
GeneralAntillesthe machine's overloaded.17:14
GeneralAntillesHey, ho, what a surprise.17:15
sp3000as if smilies were intended to be random pretty pictures >:|17:15
xorAxAxi like this smiley: %-)17:15
lardmanhmm, is there a proper debian way to compile the N8x0 kernel?17:15
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Stskeepslardman: best way is to use sb in this case i thik17:17
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lardmanyeah, but I was just thinking that as there's a debian dir in there, the old manual make is perhaps out the window17:17
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Stskeepslardman: spotted embedded/3rdparty/omap24x_lcd/kernel/omaplcd_linux.c .. fbsize is definately a bit low17:22
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Stskeepsor not.. hmm17:22
lardmanyeah that's low17:22
lardmaneven pixels would need to be x4, so I guess it's in bytes17:23
* lardman just builds Diablo kernel as a starting point17:23
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Stskeepsthe good news (i guess), is that we could possibly make a display driver like omaplcd that pushes to our untraditional one instead17:24
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lardmanyeah, I imagine that will be the way to do it17:25
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lardmanhmm, I wonder if we'll need to fiddle with the pm stuff17:29
Stskeepseventually maybe17:29
Stskeepstechnically we should check on a completely non-X and none fbcon thing at some poin17:30
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Stskeepsqwerty12: what are your plans for the evening?17:34
qwerty12Stskeeps: Why, may I ask?17:34
lardmanno you may not17:34
lardmanit's a lucky dip17:34
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qwerty12lardman: I asked the pimp to answer; not his bitch17:35
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Stskeepslardman: qwerty12'll take a look at them alongside17:39
lardmandoes a kernel build usually take forever? I've not done one for ages17:39
lardmanhave been sat on HOSTLD  scripts/kconfig/conf forever17:40
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till-my kernel compilation took about 20-60 minutes, depending on the machine17:42
lardmanhmm, just wondering if qemu has got its knickers in a twist17:43
lardmanshould be reasonably quick here - dual 2.13GHz + 4Gb of RAM and is pegged at 100%17:43
Veggenlardman: They don't any more, but I *can* remember doing kernel compilations on my old 386/25 in 1995, having it use about 24 hours ;)17:43
SpeedEvilVeggen: Sounds unlikely.17:44
SpeedEvilVeggen: unless it was swapping lots17:44
GeneralAntillesOut of groceries one day too early.17:44
lardmanyeah I started doing OE builds on a P2-400 w/ 64Mb of RAM, took a fair while :)17:44
* SpeedEvil is grocery shopping monthly online.17:44
lbthi ... any council here?17:46
lbtVDVsx: ping...17:46
Flandry_i'm a council of one. What do you need? :P17:46
lbta flight booking please17:46
lbtsince you offer :)17:46
Flandry_wouldn't that be nice17:46
* lbt thinks that's very geberous17:47
Flandry_leave my gebel out of this17:47
lardmanyeah, was just locked up17:47
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GeneralAntilleslbt, did you get the email from Quim?17:48
VDVsxlbt, yes17:48
lbtGeneralAntilles: no, from 'Jaffa;17:49
VDVsxlbt, lol, so someone hit the wrong button17:49
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lbtI was just asking if the were right - it's a duplicate17:49
lbtsure - so checking if I was accepted for Barcelona17:50
VDVsxlbt, so you received a email about the summit instead of one about barcelona ?17:51
lbtI assumed it was barcelona but best check first17:51
VDVsxthat's strange, better check with Quim17:51
VDVsxmine is correct :)17:52
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lbtSubject: Maemo - Barcelona Long Weekend registration17:53
lbtcontent:.... Summit17:53
lbtso who checks? the email is signed jaffa/community council17:54
VDVsxstrange, I've "We are pleased to approve your sponsorship request[1] for the Maemo - Barcelona Long Weekend to be held on December 4th - 6th[2]."17:54
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VDVsx"We look forward to seeing you in Barcelona!17:54
VDVsxBest wishes,17:54
VDVsxQuim Gil"17:54
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lardmanmmmm, honey roast peanuts17:55
lardmansorry, slightly ot17:55
VDVsxlbt, anyway check with Quim, he probably hit the wrong button :)17:56
lbtOK, I will17:57
VDVsxthe requests for this event aren't approved by the council :)17:57
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lbtlardman: salted cashew nuts17:57
lardmanI don;t much like cashews :)17:57
lardmanbut pecans are good17:57
lbtgood, I'll have them17:57
lardmanok, I think my wife has had enough of my eating all the others and just leaving them for her anyway :)17:58
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hrwone thing...18:00
hrwDDP gaves 1 week warranty on device (which suxx). but did someone created a list of things to be checked during that week?18:01
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bkonrathquick question: does anyone know if hail - the accessibility implementation for hildon - works with maemo 5?18:01
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SpeedEvilhrw: I suppose accidental damage insurance is a prudent thing in that event.18:02
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hrwSpeedEvil: that other thing18:02
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SpeedEvilDear Customer,18:05
SpeedEvilThe item below is now in stock and this portion of your order has been  released for processing.18:05
zaheermSpeedEvil, ddp?18:06
SpeedEvil( order - on the 20th oct18:06
w00t_SpeedEvil: got it too :)18:07
* w00t_ dances18:07
* SpeedEvil did not qualify for DDP - as openmoko karma diddn't count.18:07
hrwSpeedEvil: you should complain more on planet.maemo.org18:07
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SpeedEvilhrw: I don't have the energy.18:07
hrwI do, thats why I had higher karma18:08
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zaheermSpeedEvil, aah my order (on behalf of my cto) has got that email too18:08
SpeedEvilhrw: however - I abused discount codes.18:09
bilboed-pizaheerm, you ordered one ? :)18:09
derfzaheerm: Your CTO being thomasvs?18:09
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bilboed-piderf, *cough* :)18:10
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zaheermderf, yes18:10
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zaheermbilboed-pi, yes thomas had issues with nokia18:10
SpeedEvilHmm. 'Tracking information  is posted to the site the following business day (Monday-Friday) after the  product has shipped.'18:10
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zaheermbilboed-pi, spanish site doesn't give uk keyboards, uk site doesn't accept non uk credit cards....18:11
bilboed-pireminds me...18:11
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|RAnyone think MobileCityOnline will actually get stock tomorrow?18:12
hrwzaheerm: I ordered n810 in and paid with Polish card18:13
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zaheermhrw, yes that is different to nokia itself, i think would have accepted a non uk card too18:14
VDVsxbkonrath, not sure, better ask the developers, or someone from Igalia :)18:14
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admiral0_hi guys i've got no sound on my n90018:15
dmj7263hi zaheerm18:16
admiral0_any suggestion?18:17
dmj7263admiral0_: What have you been doing recently with it?18:17
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admiral0_just unpacked18:17
SpeedEvilAnd debit taken too.18:17
admiral0_and tried to make a call18:17
dmj7263so it's not working out of the box?18:17
zaheermdmj7263, hiya18:17
admiral0_module seems not loaded18:17
dmj7263zaheerm: Hows the zope thing coming?18:18
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GeneralAntillesadmiral0_, it's not muted, is it?18:18
GeneralAntillesNor in silent?18:18
GeneralAntilleshrw, dead pixels, probably.18:18
admiral0_full volume18:18
GeneralAntillesadmiral0_, no phone ring?18:19
zaheermdmj7263, a 4 year old nephew has been in the way :)18:19
VDVsxgeneral profile ?18:19
dmj7263I see.18:19
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dmj726zaheerm: I've been a bit busy with returning home for thanksgiving too.18:20
lardmanqwerty12: you looking now?18:21
dmj726Didn't have my computer setup again until yesterday.18:21
lardmanneed to setup a struct of some description to pass to the main driver18:21
qwerty12lardman: Cleaning the dust off my DIABLO_ARMEL target, yes18:21
lardmanlooks quite painful actually as their lcd driver is very heavily intertwined18:21
bkonrathVDVsx: thanks18:21
Stskeepslardman: checked the build scripts?18:22
lardmannah still looking at the code18:22
VDVsxbkonrath, the developer is probably here, but I don't know his nickname:)18:22
dmj726zaheerm: Started working on a GUI for the webcomic reader app, but the backend I want to use needs zope, so I can't really hook the gui into anything until zope is on there.18:22
admiral0_any idea?18:23
bkonrathVDVsx: ok, maybe i should post a message to the list18:23
dmj726I realized the armel deb won't do much, since scratchbox is a little light on armel support for gui apps.18:23
zaheermdmj726, give me a couple of days, issue i have is the pyvan is a bit buggered in scratchbox18:24
VDVsxbkonrath, yup, better idea18:24
lardmanactually the display class init code is probably ok, if we can unwind it and work out exactly what the mbx wants passed to it18:24
dmj726zaheerm: Thanks.18:25
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dmj726by pyvan you mean python?18:25
admiral0_stupid pulseaudio18:28
admiral0_i am almost sure it's its fault18:28
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hrwGeneralAntilles: dead pixels, quality of microsd slot, internal storage etc18:29
* mgedmin doubts admiral0_'s conclusion18:30
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GeneralAntillesadmiral0_, yeah, doubt that.18:30
GeneralAntillesadmiral0_, Nokia's got their own audio drivers.18:30
GeneralAntillesadmiral0_, if you think it's that, reflash it.18:30
admiral0_alsamixer: libpulse.c: Connection refused18:31
AndrewFBlackI got 3 movies with the digital movie copy with them only to find out that the digial copy only players on devies with drm thats lame back to ripping my movies again I guess18:31
admiral0_ a wiki to reflash?18:31
infobotmethinks flashing is
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lardmanStskeeps: you see the X modifications there anywhere?18:36
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Stskeepslardman: no, not in this part18:37
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lardmanah ok18:37
Stskeepswe can move on to x mods when we have this part going18:37
lardmanyeah, was just looking at the build scripts18:37
Stskeepsmaybe in style of fbdev from fremantle18:37
admiral0_8 mon till download complete18:38
toggles_whow does dell end up shipping before amazon???18:40
* toggles_w is not happy18:40
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Stskeeps'lo ph518:44
Stskeeps(sent you an mail earlier)18:45
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GeneralAntillesandre__, triage bug #6272 yet? ;)18:45
povbotBug User-friendliness fail18:45
pH5hi Stskeeps, yeah, just downloading the archive.18:46
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microlithman, fuck chase credit and fuck nokia usa18:47
lardmanhmm, I think I'm going to try ignoring their fb/lcd code and look at what the kernel driver needs to be passed when it's init'd18:48
* lardman has to pop to the shops quickly18:48
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mgedminnot a very descriptive bug title18:53
wazdmaemo 5 file copy pop-up is really frustrating18:53
admiral0_fuck it18:53
* mgedmin never seen it18:53
admiral0_it was the italian firmware18:53
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, indeed.18:54
admiral0_i was really really scared18:54
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qwerty12bug #118:54
povbotBug test - ignore it18:54
qwerty12How lame18:55
Stskeepsbug #218:55
povbotBug Static linking under SDK-PC does not work18:55
Xisdibikgood morning maemoers18:55
hrwXisdibik: not so good but morning18:55
Xisdibikwhy not so good hrw ?18:55
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mgedminheh, maemo's bug #1 is easier to fix than ubuntu's bug #118:57
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microlithwhy does nokia force you to go through their phone system for orders until you own a phone19:03
GeneralAntillesNokia USA is such a joke.19:03
microlithhorrible joke19:03
GeneralAntillesThey just need to axe the whole department and start from scratch.19:03
Vulcanisor just axe it19:03
Vulcanisput the money elsewhere19:04
GeneralAntillesNokia's failure to sell phones in the US is completely and entirely deserved.19:04
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Vulcanistheir normal phones aren't that great from what I've seen... their tablets and smartphones aren't marketed well enough19:05
fralsim pretty much in love with nokia sweden since they decided not to ship any n900s until version "1.1" is released19:05
GeneralAntillesTheir normal phones are better than Samsung's normal phones.19:05
VulcanisGeneralAntilles: Yeah, not the verizon ones :\19:05
GeneralAntillesfrals, yeah, pretty silly.19:05
GeneralAntillesfrals, can't you get it from another reseller, though?19:05
qwerty12frals: Get those bank robbers to target Nokia Sweden19:06
qwerty12That'll teach 'em19:06
fralsi could order it from finland, but warranties and stuff usually gets pretty fubar then19:06
GeneralAntillesfrals, what about Amazon or the local equivalent?19:06
fralsno resellers are getting any until nokia sweden "releases" the hold on it it seems19:06
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qwerty12frals: Are you even on 3? :)19:07
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fralsthats the best part, you can't get one even if you acknowledge you know it might not work for you19:07
GeneralAntillesfrals, well, supposedly 1.1 should be out next month.19:07
GeneralAntillesHopefully it wont be more than a few weeks.19:07
GeneralAntillesThe retail firmware is already pretty old.19:07
hrwGeneralAntilles: hopefully is good word19:08
fralsaye, ive come to the point where it doesnt really matter anymore, wouldve been nice to be able to test and get mms working soon, but meh :P19:08
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microlithwhat the hell19:13
zaheermmy credit card company declined my transaction19:13
zaheermand called me up for security19:14
zaheermnokia cancelled my order19:14
zaheermhad to re-do the order19:14
Klownerohh :(19:14
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microliththe order I just tried to place with my debit card was -instantly- denied19:14
microlithand they're saying some bullshit about 3 business days19:14
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SpeedEvilmicrolith: multiple transactions?19:15
microlithSpeedEvil: all of which should have been terminated at this point19:15
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timeless_mbpcould someone please explain which thing i want if i want a vmware image of an sdk?19:18
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lcuktimeless http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org19:18
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, none of them?19:19
timeless_mbpgarage doesn't seem to be particularly responsive19:19
GeneralAntillesThey're all old, aren't they?19:19
hrwtimeless_mbp: interpid one19:19
lcukthe vmware is not provided directly as a vmware image (its outside the scope of system update)19:19
timeless_mbphrw: there are a bunch of those19:19
timeless_mbpdo i want the server one?19:19
timeless_mbpwhy is the server one so much smaller?19:19
GeneralAntillesNo desktop, maybe?19:20
hrwtimeless_mbp: PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image one is what I used (two parts one)19:20
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lcuksince the gui installer works nicely, you can happily grab a debian/ubuntu vmware image and install the sdk directly into that19:20
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: i love how they don't have datestamps19:20
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timeless_mbplcuk: i'm incredibly lazy :)19:20
hrwtimeless_mbp: ones19:20
hrwtimeless_mbp: then do apt-get update/upgrade in sbox19:21
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hrwtimeless_mbp: works with virtualbox19:21
Xisdibikalright GeneralAntilles did you break
lcuktimeless, +1 you arent the only one19:21
timeless_mbpbut that's "prefinal"19:21
hrwespecially when I compiled virtualbox image additions under it19:21
Xisdibiknvm its loading now19:21
GeneralAntillesXisdibik, muahaha!19:21
hrwtimeless_mbp: you can update it to final...19:21
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timeless_mbphey, where in the vmware sdk image does it say "user = maemo; password = maemo" ?19:27
JosefAssadt.m.o is a bit odd today19:27
JosefAssador, now.19:27
timeless_mbpis that unusual?19:28
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JosefAssadwell. is loading faster than t.m.o. loading faster than anything is news19:28
|Rt.m.o doesn't even load for me right now19:29
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GAN900Why is Haze completely and utterly broken?19:31
VDVsxkonttori, hey19:31
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VDVsxkonttori, I tried canola in the other day and the contact are shown when I press a key o_019:32
konttoriyeah, issue in enlightment19:32
konttorithey are not grabbing the input.19:33
* timeless_mbp frowns19:33
konttorianyway, fixed in fremantle (latest)19:33
timeless_mbpoh, anyone remember why i was supposed to kick konttori ? :)19:33
konttorinot me19:33
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timeless_mbpi think i do19:33
timeless_mbpstick around for a minute :)19:33
VDVsxkonttori, ah, because you said that nothing happens with your newer image :P19:33
timeless_mbpkonttori: bug 289919:35
povbotBug List of hardware keyboard layouts is not expandable19:35
timeless_mbpclaiming that something is fixed because a third party package can replace a system component19:35
timeless_mbpis not a valid "FIXED"19:35
timeless_mbpit isn't even "WORKSFORME"19:35
timeless_mbpit's "WORKAROUNDAVAILABLE"19:35
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* timeless_mbp kicks konttori 19:37
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, ins't the bug about extend the list of available kb, like support for some sort of plugins system ?19:37
timeless_mbpthanks for sticking around19:37
VDVsxseems valid for me :P19:37
timeless_mbpVDVsx: yes19:37
timeless_mbpthe bug is perfectly valid19:37
timeless_mbpbut it is not at all fixed19:37
timeless_mbpwhich is my point19:37
timeless_mbphence my desire to kick konttori19:38
VDVsxso, now you can extend the keyboard list ?19:38
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VDVsxthe kb in extras-testing is the proof :P19:38
timeless_mbpyou can't19:38
timeless_mbpit isn't19:38
timeless_mbpit replaces the control panel19:38
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timeless_mbpthat's not expanding it19:38
konttoriI asked input method guys to take a look at a better solution19:38
konttori(like 2 mins ago)19:38
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, ah, right ;)19:39
timeless_mbpkonttori: thanks19:39
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VDVsxtimeless_mbp, btw, I can't edit some values in  microB about:conf, did you saw that bug ?19:40
paroneayeazaheerm: yeah, I had the same problem with the online nokia store too... twice.19:41
paroneayeaand then they didn't let me order from there any more because my card was flagged, apparently I would have to do it over the phone19:41
paroneayeaso I gave up and ordered on amazon19:41
zaheermparoneayea, it means your order goes to the back of the queue :(19:41
paroneayeathen canceled my amazon order when it came in to the chicago nokia store and picked one up directly ;)19:42
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zaheermparoneayea, is it already in store for non-preorder customers there?19:42
dmj726paroneayea: How much?19:44
paroneayeadmj726: $560 USD19:44
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dmj726$560 at Nokia Store?19:44
paroneayeaand there's some rebate thingy in the box19:44
dmj726So 510 after rebate?19:44
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paroneayeait ended up being about 1200-something after tax19:45
paroneayeabut yeah19:45
zaheerm1200 ?19:45
zaheermfor 2?19:45
paroneayeamy wife and I both got one19:45
microlithnokia can go die in a fire19:45
paroneayeaI will note that she is a non-hacker and she is equally pleased with the device19:46
zaheermmicrolith, they still won't accept your order?19:46
microlithzaheerm: I told 'em to just cancel all orders19:46
zaheermparoneayea, yah my wife has one too (6 month loaner) and she loves it being a non-hacker19:46
microlithwasted my time for four months only to fuck me over in the end19:46
microlithwhy is nokia still showing a preorder with headset on their site?19:47
timeless_mbpVDVsx: i saw it earlier, i thought i assigned it to someone19:47
paroneayeamicrolith: yeah, the key is to *not* order through nokia's shitty online store :P19:47
timeless_mbpwe were actually talking about it just a few minutes ago19:47
paroneayeathe woman on the phone even told me:19:47
paroneayea"we recommend that people do this on the phone instead of using our online store"19:48
paroneayea"because it is very finnicky"19:48
microliththeir phone service is worse19:48
microlithbecause I can't understand what they're mumbling19:48
timeless_mbpparoneayea: finnicky is like finnishy :)19:48
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, it's very strange because I remember to modify values in one of the earlier images (perhaps only strings)19:48
zaheermi tried calling, was on hold for 45 minutes to nokia UK and still got through to noone19:48
microlithoddly enough, everyone else has online ordering down to a fucking artform19:48
timeless_mbpVDVsx: those tend to be event/focus related19:48
timeless_mbpit's definitely possible for us to regress them19:49
timeless_mbpdon't feel surprised19:49
GeneralAntillesAh, gotta love Windows users trying to do graphics editing.19:49
GeneralAntilles"Let me just load up MS Paint here."19:49
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: um19:49
timeless_mbpanyway, we're collectively getting dinner19:49
hrwGeneralAntilles: MS Paint is good to draw icons19:49
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, use liqbase :)19:49
hrwparoneayea: she is fine with device now. ask her after month19:50
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, yes, you can also do that with magic markers, it's hardly recommended, though.19:50
hrw~curse ddp19:50
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ddp !19:50
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, and only the very exceptional sorts can manage it. :)19:50
paroneayeahrw: well I certainly will ask her after a month, however19:51
paroneayeashe isn't 'fine' with it, she is 'incredibly enthused'19:51
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hrwparoneayea: is she geek?19:53
dmj726if you want the mona lisa, use mypaint19:54
paroneayeahrw: nope19:54
BBNStmo has been pretty crazy slow for a day ... mmm o_o19:54
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Flandry_Quick question: what exactly goes in the XSBC-Bugtracker field of control files? I have a bugtracker entry for my app, but don't know what should go in the field.19:58
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Flandry_gah nevermind19:59
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* Flandry_ gives himself a swift kick to the rear20:00
zaheermBBNS, all these new people with a retail n900 :)20:00
Ceron^  ALLRIGHT20:01
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inzDoes google wave work with N900?20:02
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zaheerminz, yes20:02
inzI tried with N810, and it crashed just about right away after it loaded20:02
|Rinz: check youtube :)20:02
inz|R, nah, I like text based better20:03
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|Rinz: well then check youtube through AA lib, there is a wave/n900 video :P20:04
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inz|R, if I get the answer from here with one question within a minute, why would I load my flash-enabled browser, look up a video, watch the video to find out the end result20:05
inzThis works much better; IRC ftw!-)20:05
|Rbut ascii art is beautiful! :P20:05
VDVsxFlandry_, bugtracker URL20:06
Flandry_yeah i looked at another pkg20:06
|Ranyway, i really hope i get my N900 shipped tomorrow :/20:06
Flandry_thanks :)20:06
hrw|R: ;)20:07
* hrw gaves up on ddp20:08
zaheermt.m.o is very slow20:08
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BBNSzaheerm: =] that's a good sign!20:08
hrwzaheerm: it is normal speed20:08
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Flandry_Time for my daily RFT (request for testers):
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BluesLeei read that some customers from us will get their preordered n900 this week, but what is the situation in europe?20:19
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zaheermBluesLee, theoretically this week20:20
zaheermBluesLee, but in practise, only God knows :)20:20
BluesLeezaheerm: a further delay would be really bad20:21
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zaheermBluesLee, tell that to nokia's retail dept :)20:22
zaheermi believe it's all in their hands20:22
microlithfuck nokia20:22
qwerty12Fuck them yourself20:22
microlithgood hardware, incompetent shipping20:22
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microlithor rather, retail operations20:23
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hrwBluesLee: nokia and selling tablets...20:23
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hrwBluesLee: I will not be surprised if official nokia shop in Poland still does not know what n900 is.20:24
BluesLeehi hrw, greetings to pozna20:24
* kynky got his n900 order processing email at 3.53 (order at nokia retail uk)20:24
BluesLeei will not wait a further month20:25
BluesLeegood news20:25
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hrwBluesLee: I live in Szczecin20:25
kynkypreordered on october 20th20:25
kynkynot got express delivery though :(20:25
lcukkynky, cool they are working so late to get the orders out!20:26
BluesLeehrw: i dont know that city20:26
kynkylcuk, sweet20:26
lcukor was that pm20:26
zaheermlcuk, 3.53 isn't late ;)20:26
* w00t_ has express delivery \o/20:26
lcukzaheerm, on my 24h clock it is20:27
zaheermlcuk, or early ;)20:27
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kynkyhopefully in my hand between weds and fri20:27
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lcukhi n bye hrw20:27
lcukzaheerm, indeed20:27
BluesLeei preordered mine from amazon.de20:28
BluesLeebut got no informations yet20:28
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BluesLeepreorder date 19.920:29
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waoamazon bit sucks with these preorders :(20:30
microlithnot as bad as nokia20:31
kynkywell you wouldexpect nokia to fulfill nokia order first, then nokia retail partners (aka mpd), then amazon etc (at a guess)20:32
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BluesLeewe will see20:33
BluesLeemaybe christmas20:33
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Ufoekeanyone who knows if the phone service providers lock the n900 ? or are you have to buy it unlocked ?20:48
RST38ht.m.o rip?20:49
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RST38hhave to buy unlocked, afaik, at least for now20:49
andre__yeah, dead20:49
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Ufoekei wanna have dual sim card in it one for internet and one for the phone services ^^20:50
xorAxAxwill you wear your n900 in your jeans pocket?20:50
xorAxAxUfoeke: also a dual radio?20:51
Juznadoes anyone have properly working smtp ssl connection on maemo 520:51
UfoekexorAxAx i will switch between the cards if the "dual sim" tool will work20:51
RST38hUfoeke: N900 only has one sim card slot20:51
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xorAxAxhow will you carry your n900?20:52
xorAxAxits a bit bulky for the trousers' pocket20:52
Ufoekenot more bulky then an iphone20:53
jaw_vvdhey, does n900 come with a system shell for ssh etc?20:53
Ufoekei will use a dual sim card adapter to get it to work i hope ^^20:53
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UfoekeNokia N900 110.9mm × 59.8mm × 18mm Iphone 3GS 115.5mm x 62.1mm x 12,3mm not so much differense20:57
penguinbaitthats what she said21:00
zaheermo2 uk cust service suck more than nokia sales21:02
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zaheermmy mum has gone abroad for 3 weeks, she doesn't pick up calls but anyone that leaves a voicemail it will be charged the roaming rate (even if she doesn't pick up)21:03
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zaheermi called to turn it off, they can't do it..has to be done on the handset21:03
zaheermthen checked with cust service if the country she's gone to will allow it to be done on the handset21:04
zaheermand they said no21:04
zaheermso i'm screwed either way21:04
Ufoekehmm when i worked at a phone company we just "reseted" location where the phone where last time the person had it on21:05
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[dmp]_"Using SDK on X86_64 is not supported, but you can install it anyway" the installer says. Does it mean, that Nokia dont official support it, or that it simply wont work?21:10
Juznastill wondering why this smtps fails21:11
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BBNS[dmp]_:  i think it's simply won't work because qemu and other stuffs.21:13
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*** alecrim has joined #maemo21:14 is quite slow at the moment...21:14
[dmp]_BBNS: Thanks. Ill try to look for anohter solution then :)21:15
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* RST38h moos21:16
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PaulFertserHey :) (/me greets inhabitants in a seemingly friendly way)21:20
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PaulFertserDid anyone try to provide additional external power to the USB host of n810?21:21
Cr0n_I need to take pictures from the command line in the n810, which would be the simplest way?21:21
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PaulFertserI mean is it safe, won't the internal converter be damaged?21:21
hrwCr0n_: run xterm and use load-applet for taking photos21:21
RST38hAssume it is not safe21:22
PaulFertserIs a simple kernel patch to make it think it has more power enough for that scheme to work?21:22
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RST38hGiven that it is not your standard PC USB controller21:22
hrwPaulFertser: use non-cheap-chinese powered usbhub21:22
andre__Cr0n_, there was something like "screenshot-tool -t 20" or similar. no idea if installed by default though :-/21:22
PaulFertserRST38h: ok, how do i know for sure? I'd really need to do that.21:22
PaulFertserhrw: why can't i provide power right on the bus?21:22
RST38hPaul: You know for sure by trying it and burning your N8x0 out21:22
andre__Cr0n_, argh.... pictures not screenshots? damn, i"m out21:22
Juznais there any way to debug n900 mail client21:22
Juznait would be nice to get more specific error21:22
hrwPaulFertser: because you do not want to fry half of n81021:22
RST38hPaul: If this approach is not feasible, I would go with a cheap chinese powered usb hub21:22
Juznabecause this aint working21:22
Cr0n_I will try, thanks21:23
PaulFertserhrw: it's a serious claim.21:23
PaulFertserhrw: but is it really backed up by anything?21:23
RST38hPaukl: No.21:23
hrwRST38h: cheap chinese powered usb hubs push power to usb host too21:23
RST38hPaul: You should definitely try it to prove hrw wrong.21:24
RST38hhrw: Ah! Non-cheap then!21:24
PaulFertserRST38h: i could do that after i take a look at the schematics.21:24
PaulFertserRST38h: come on, you know what i'm talking about.21:24
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RST38hYea. And I would never try it on my hardware.21:24
RST38hBecause even if you somehow get external schematics and make sure they are ok, there is no way to tell what is going on inside the SoC21:25
PaulFertserRST38h: i'm not fear to do that with my own gta02 (openmoko freerunner) because i know for sure it won't fry anything, i've read the converter datasheet etc.21:25
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PaulFertserRST38h: SoC doesn't care about the power, it cares only about D+ D-. And controls power by GPIO's. Probably it toggles a single gpio that enables the Vsys->Vusb converter.21:25
timelessstupid question21:26
timelessis the sdk based on sbox?21:27
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PaulFertserI want to ask an advice of anybody who knows n810 hardware...21:27
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hrwtimeless: yes :(21:28
RST38hPaul: Wrong place.21:28
PaulFertserRST38h: could you possibly be so nice to suggest me a better one?21:28
PaulFertser(ah, no _that_ much sarcasm intended)21:28
hrwPaulFertser: officially probably no one here knows n810 hardware21:28
PaulFertserhrw: and unofficially?21:28
RST38hPaul: no (no sarcasm)21:28
RST38hEven Nokians frequenting this channel are software guys21:29
StskeepsRST38h: could you explain the weird setup of N8x0 framebuffer/blizzard stuff in a sentence?21:29
PaulFertserE.g. it's probably possible for Stskeeps being a nokia employee to have a quick glance over schematics or a quick chat with a hw guy?21:29
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StskeepsPaulFertser: i'm not a nokia employee.21:29
RST38hSts: Yea21:29
PaulFertserStskeeps: ah, right, but you have some connections, do not you?21:29
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RST38hSts: That is called on-demand LCD refresh21:29
luke-jrPaulFertser: unofficially, I think the schematics were leaked on the web21:30
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* timeless throws a parsing exception at paul21:30
RST38hSts: You want something more elaborate?21:30
StskeepsRST38h: yes, - does blizzard have a seperate framebuffer?21:30
StskeepsRST38h: it's to deal with MBX drivers, so21:30
RST38hOf course it does21:30
PaulFertsertimeless: lol, there's no exceptions in C, except for hardware but all of those are trapped :p21:30
PaulFertserluke-jr: thanks, i'll try to look them up21:30
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timelesspaul: i'm a student of w3221:31
timelesswe've always had SEH21:31
RST38hSts: Basically, you tell Blizzard to start updating, it initiates DMA access to get image from your buffer in SDRAM into its internal frame buffer. All this time, it is going to use that internal frame buffer (with right scaling factors) to update the LCD21:31
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PaulFertserMy guess is that feeding external 5V power should most probably be safe, it'd say it's 90% probability it's safe. :)21:31
RST38hSts: This scheme is very very common among LCD controllers. Most Nokia Symbian/S60 phones use it for example21:32
PaulFertsertimeless: heard about it. Managed to almost avoid w32 mess in my life.21:32
StskeepsRST38h: right, so the sdram buffer is not omapfb for instance21:32
RST38hnoting to do with internal omap2 buffer21:32
timelessw32 is a lot cleaner than most alternatives21:32
RST38h(which is at 0x06000000 if I remember correctly)21:32
StskeepsRST38h: both are accessible from normal kernel space?21:33
RST38hSts: Probably21:33
* RST38h isn't sure about the linux stuff21:33
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Stskeepsstupid question would be, is omapfb even enabled on normal n8x0 kernels? :P21:35
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RST38hStskeeps: Well, the ioctl()s I am using come from omapfb21:37
RST38hI suspect the driver has simply been extended to support N8x0 video setup21:37
Stskeepsok, so the omapfb driver may simply be redirected to the blizzard fb instead21:38
PaulFertsertimeless: if to use a message queue (like SysV or posix message queues) you need to create a window that is actually not a window and use callbacks etc etc i can't call it clean ;)21:39
* timeless_mbp shrugs21:39
timeless_mbpyou're welcome to call it whatever you like21:40
timeless_mbpapi stability in w32 is a lot better than most platforms21:40
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Cr0n_I need to take pictures of web cam using command line.The scrennshot-tool is so for screenshot's and not shot.21:40
Cr0n_Anybody know any other program21:40
timeless_mbpthe only platforms i can think of that is better is solaris21:40
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Cr0n_I need to take pictures of web cam using command line.The scrennshot-tool is so for screenshot's and not shot.21:40
Cr0n_Anybody know any other program21:40
timeless_mbpand that's limited by the mess that is gnome21:40
timeless_mbpCr0n_: to take a picture of the web cam, you'll need a second camera21:40
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PaulFertsertimeless: api stability leads to the nonsence called w32 api which is a complete mess of all the techniques, bugs and mis-features ms collects over the years. I do not think anyone actually likes it.21:41
timeless_mbpare you using the n800 or the n810?21:41
timeless_mbpCr0n_: free advice: always mention that when you describe your problem21:41
timeless_mbpthe natural assumption at this point is that people would ask about the n90021:41
* RST38h sighs21:41
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RST38hhello javispedro21:41
Stskeepslo javispedro21:41
javispedroyeah, saw the payload Sts :)21:42
xorAxAxdoes the n900 offer access to STK menus?21:42
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xorAxAxsim toolkit21:43
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xorAxAxthe sim card menu that was built by e.g. the network operator21:43
Cr0n_timesless_mbp: I need a program similar to fswebcam, command line to take picture on n81021:43
xorAxAxto offer special features21:44
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: not out of the box21:44
RST38h"Christian Scientists push to insert practice of turning to God for healing into reform legislation."21:44
mardi__Anyone in the UK have their N900 pre-order cancelled by - could they post here :
xorAxAxRST38h: are  you a markov news bot?21:45
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: a pity21:45
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timeless_mbpxorAxAx: it's really critical to you?21:45
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: the dual sim adapter i want to try requires it21:45
xorAxAxfor settings21:45
SpeedEvilmardi__: not loading. I've recieved an email saying 'stock now available, processing your order'21:45
mardi__so did I,  and then followed by email saying cancelled21:46
hrwxorAxAx: probably can forget about it working. but I am pesimist here21:46
mardi__site is a bit swamped as appears to have happened to a few people21:46
xorAxAxis the sim card easy to exchange?21:46
andre__xorAxAx: after opening the backcover and removing the battery: yes21:47
SpeedEvilmardi__: did you order using money off codes? And how soon after ?21:47
lcuksure, just send a form in triplicate to Nokia HQ, your service provider and your parents21:47
xorAxAxandre__: so like in every other mobile :)21:47
andre__hmm. yeah :-)21:47
* hrw starts to write another complaining post21:47
SpeedEvilmardi__: and they've charged card.21:47
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timeless_mbpsure you walk to your operator and ask for a replacement21:47
mardi__just quidco and only a week ago21:47
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mardi__sounds good for you if they have hit your card SpeedEvil21:48
SpeedEvilmardi__: ordered 20th Oct. with 3* money off codes, through quidco.21:48
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timeless_mbpxorAxAx: so, do you know of anyone who has written an STK host for linux?21:49
SpeedEvilerr - topcasback21:49
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: no21:49
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hrwcan someone remind me - how many people got DDP offer?21:50
Stskeepseveryone with >= 200 karma21:50
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timeless_mbphrw: so, i'm confused21:50
timeless_mbpi have this thing21:50
timeless_mbpwhere's the scratchbox?21:50
hrwStskeeps: 100? 200? 300 people?21:50
xorAxAxStskeeps: which karma?21:50
hrwtimeless_mbp: I am wrong person to ask about maemo sdk21:50 karma21:50
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timeless_mbpshows where 200 karma ends today21:51
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timeless_mbpbut the cutoff was some other day21:51
javispedroit's growing fast.21:52
RST38hpupnik and rm_you have not made it!21:52
timeless_mbpit'd be roughly 200 if it were today21:52
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timeless_mbpi presume Nokians weren't offered DDP21:52
javispedropupnik got loan though21:53
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timeless_mbpamusingly enough jaaksi has karma 20021:53
RST38hrevdkathy actually leads pupnik!21:53
GeneralAntilleshrw, in the vicinity of 180.21:53
slonopotamusdoes t.m.o work at all?21:53
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* RST38h takes out a checkered flag and chants "go, pupnik, go"21:53
javispedrono, it has been slashdotted to hell with hordes of people wanting to refresh "has it shipped yet" thread.21:54
VDVsx  ->>21:54
VDVsxgreat excuse :)21:54
slonopotamusjavispedro, argh. i want to read my private message.21:54
derfWell, you've got to expect that people will karma whore after you make a DDP based solely on karma.21:54
javispedroslonopotamus: be thanful you got the email copy of it ;)21:55
RST38hderf: no shit21:55
javispedrohm... where's my spell checker gone?21:55
RST38hVDVsx: has been circulating for a couple of days now21:55
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derfSo yeah, I'd be very surprised if that list hadn't grown substantially.21:55
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, I've repaired machines used by smokers. It's often an unpleasant experience, but easily solved by something as simple as a cloth rag wrapped around your face. ;)21:55
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ugh21:56
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RST38hGeneral: Is it possible to make smokers wrap cloth around their faces instead?21:56
ProteousI've had to do that too. super nasty stuff21:56
RST38hI mean, with legislation?21:56
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ProteousmKes you sick when you wonder what the smokers lungs must look like21:57
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes, let's hope it doesn't go that far, though. ;)21:57
derfI'm sure someone would argue that violates one of those pesky Bill of Rights amendments.21:57
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RST38hfire hazard, yes21:57
GeneralAntillesProteous, I had a coworker who'd smoked a packa a day for 40 years.21:57
GeneralAntillesUsed to cough up little tar balls every few weeks.21:57
RST38hderf: Bill of rights does not explicitely mention smokers, I think =)21:58
derfRST38h: Probably the "cruel and unusual" clause.21:58
timeless_mbpaccording to my math, there are 20 nokians in the top 20021:58
timeless_mbpso 10% :)21:58
javispedrobtw, I was wondering. will anyone from Nokia/ be in BCN airport on friday 4 and guide everybody, will everybody go on their own... ?21:58
RST38hderf: Oh, true21:58
javispedrohow does that usually go?21:58
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, they are karma whores :)21:58
* VDVsx hides21:58
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, that reminds me, I still need to figure out where I'm staying Sunday night. . . .21:58
Stskeepsjavispedro: standard pattern is that some groups of people meet up and then go into the wild themselves21:59
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, yeah, noticed.21:59
javispedroah, interesting.21:59
timeless_mbpi'm not trying very hard21:59
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I need to go do a few more rounds of Extras-testing Testing. ;)21:59
RST38hwhich reminds me: Maemo meetup tomorrow at 19:3021:59
VDVsxjavispedro, most of us will be at the hotel on Friday21:59
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: i want to get ukeyboard into bugzilla21:59
timeless_mbpso i can file bugs :)21:59
* javispedro was planning to be here on airport and do something useful someday :)21:59
VDVsxjavispedro, you can meet us that the hotel22:00
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zaheermjavispedro, i can help you but i land really late22:00
zaheermjavispedro, i lived in barcelona for 18 months22:00
javispedrozaheerm: I was thinking the opposite, I am a local22:00
zaheermaaah :)22:00
* GeneralAntilles is getting in at 7:45 Friday morning.22:01
zaheermi am semi-local but never set foot in cornella22:01
javispedroi plan to go there this weekend and get a feel of the area22:01
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zaheermderf, i heard people got the theora dsp stuff working on their n900 devices, you heard anything of any packages created for fremantle?22:02
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pwnguinanyone set up their own Mozilla weave server?22:04
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: so... i'm planning to call Mexico City shortly :)22:04
ShapeshifterGuys, is there a hildonized theme for Qt in the repos? Or any other way to enable such a theme? There's no qtconfig apparently.22:05
derfzaheerm: No, I haven't.22:06
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RST38hno, it makes no sense22:08
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RST38hbut we knew that already22:08
fralspwnguin: yeah i did, used the minimal one22:09
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GeneralAntillesHrww, the obviousness of your conclusions leads me to believe you're karma whoring. *g*22:10
pwnguinfrals: still using it?22:10
pwnguinfrals: got it working with fennec?22:11
fralsnot tried :o22:11
pwnguinim wondering if there's a huge versioning problem given it's all in beta22:12
timeless_mbppwnguin: i'd hope not22:12
timeless_mbpbut #weave should be the place to ask22:13
pwnguintimeless_mbp: well, the standalone is more of a development testing server22:13
timeless_mbpyou don't think they'll support you?22:13
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pwnguini think they might not have a consistent set of compatible versions, or if they do, it's a rapidly moving target22:13
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fralsim syncing my firefox on laptop/workstation fine anyway, read something about their google group about problems with fennec but seemed resolved in the nightly builds22:14
derf"Previous developer programs were better at handling users" <- Hahahahaha.22:14
xorAxAxdoes the n900 have a stopwatch and alarms?22:14
RST38hderf: they have no idea, have they?22:14
julianoliverMaemo 5 (as seen on my new N900) is great. it looks and plays well. congrats all. i will be targeting this OS with my own projects.22:14
* RST38h remembers ordering via NokiaUSA22:15
Stskeepsjulianoliver: cool :) welcome in the ecosystem22:15
Juznajulianoliver: have you made smtp over ssl work?22:15
derfHow many months after release were the DDP N810's shipped?22:15
ali1234has there really only ever been 6303 bugs (highest bug on buzilla) reported on maemo?22:16
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hrwhow many people got n810 though ddp?22:16
derfAt least for the N800, when I called NokiaUSA and they had no idea what I was talking about, after about an hour I got a manager to approve the order anyway.22:16
derfFor the N810 they just flat-out refused.22:17
julianoliverJuzna: no, but i may be trying. typically though i send mail over an ssh tunnel.22:17
RST38hhrw: was not done through ddp, but was still complete mess22:17
wazd~seen fiferboy22:17
infobotfiferboy <n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10d 1h 47m 22s ago, saying: 'If qwerty12 doesn't know it, it can't be known'.22:17
xorAxAxdoes the n900 have a stopwatch and alarms?22:17
lcukgeneral q, when you restore from a backup, does it just get the latest version of apps listed or does it specifically look for the installed version22:17
julianoliverStskeeps: pleased to see great centralised API documentation also.22:17
* julianoliver rubs hands22:17
PaulFertserJust FYI. An external cardreader asked for probably its maximum current and n810 refused to power it up at all. I just made the kernel think that it can provide more and the cardreader works.22:17
FirebirdHm, talk.maemo getting stomped with traffic? or is my end just slow22:17
hrwjulianoliver: used scratchbox before?22:18
julianoliverFirebird: slow from here (Berlin/DE) also22:18
julianoliverhrw: no i haven't22:18
xorAxAxFirebird: thats people who want to increase their karma for the n910 DDP22:18
hrwFirebird: no, t.m.o. just returned to normal speed (sluggish)22:18
hrwjulianoliver: prepare for screaming and cursing22:18
FirebirdxorAxAx, ?22:18
julianoliverhrw: hehe ok22:20
julianoliveri'll brace myself. as long as it isn't the purgatory of Symbian..22:20
hrwjulianoliver: one suggestion from me: do not install it in your system but use maemosdk virtualization image22:20
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Flandryif there's a bright center of coherence, it as the point farthest from22:20
julianoliverhrw: ok, this is how i intended to work anyway..22:21
Flandryyeah don't install it on main system, it really borked mine22:21
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xorAxAxhmm, there doesnt seem to be an alarm app for the n900. is there really no way to get alarms?22:21
timeless_mbpi'm still confused about the sdk downlaods22:21
julianoliverinitially though i think i'll just try to compile right on the device over SSH (IDE Vim)22:21
lcukxorAxAx, click the clock22:21
infobottimeless_mbp meant: i'm still confused about the sdk downloads22:21
lcukand set as many alarms as you like22:21
timeless_mbpi downloaded something that had sdk in the name22:21
xorAxAxlcuk: ok, thanks :)22:21
lcukthe ui is amazing22:22
timeless_mbpbut i can't find scratchbox22:22
lcukit recalls all old alarms and can be reticked at any time22:22
xorAxAxlcuk: does the clock app also do stopwatch?22:22
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lcukno stopwatch that ive found so far22:22
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julianoliverlcuk: would be a good app in itself..22:22
xorAxAxlcuk: thats bad :-/22:22
* lcuk really likes the alarms ui22:22
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* julianoliver does also22:22
lcukyes, a simple stopwatch app :)22:22
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hrwlcuk: run it in other resolution then 800x480 and then it stops looking good22:23
lcukthese things tend to have feature creep, one day its a stop watch, the next its an egg timer and chess clock22:23
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lcukhrw it runs in other resolutions anywa22:23
xorAxAxi mainly need it for debating :)22:23
lcukwhat do you think happens when you zoom to the dashboard22:23
xorAxAxwe have 7 min. limits on the speeches22:24
lcukand it looks fine22:24
Flandryhow many resolutions does your n900 run at, anyway? oO22:24
lcukapart from the bug about it not refreshing i see no problems with it22:24
lcukits part of the best looking gtk this side of pluto22:24
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lcukFlandry, that wasnt resolutions22:24
lcukthat was scaling the whole 800*480 down to see it in the thumbnails22:24
lcukooooh hrw, that looks even more special over my vnc22:25
lcukwhich is 256color lol22:25
Flandrywas directed at hrw but i see the scenarios now22:25
lcukso the background layer is resolution dependent22:25
hrwlcuk: yep22:25
* timeless_mbp looks for someone who is on the inside of the great nokia firewall22:25
hrwFlandry: my n900? I do not have such one22:25
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hrwFlandry: and looking at DDP it looks like I will not have in this year22:26
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Anprhello guys :)22:26
Flandrywell just wondering why you care about other res than the only one on n900, that's all :D22:26
Flandrytoo bad about the DDP22:26
* lcuk can run liqbase at 400*24022:27
lcukor infact any other res22:27
lcuko_O i avent tried higher on this device22:27
* lcuk checks22:27
hrwFlandry: maemosdk can be run at any resolution22:27
hrwFlandry: and  I wonder how many people will run maemo5 on touchbook :D22:27
andre__sigh, Nokia. "Meamo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_0_en.txt". yeah, with typo22:28
* Flandry trademarks Meamo and sues Nokia22:28
javispedroMe aaaaamoooooo22:28
Flandryfinally an OS that loves me22:29
Flandryor itself22:29
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Flandryman i'm so confused22:29
hrwFlandry: but maemosdk shows that 800x480 is hardcoded in some apps22:30
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javispedroit is.22:30
Flandryalso, step 5 will be same hardware res22:30
javispedroit's been hardcoded in some apps since, forever.22:30
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hrwand I wonder how many years will take maemo5 to get usable applauncher instead of that crap which is present now22:31
hrwqwerty12_N900: downgrade?22:31
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Flandryhe's back from the future22:31
RST38hhrw: It really does not take that long22:32
RST38hhrw: But taking most UX people to the landfill feels like a necessary prerequisite22:32
hrwRST38h: maemo4 did not got too many UI changes during it's life.22:33
Shapeshifterhrw: we'll just "port" gmrun?22:33
hrwRST38h: I do not expect seeing UI changes in maemo522:33
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javispedromaemo1-4 got UI changes?22:33
* RST38h has no idea why Maemo4 UI has not been considered good enough22:33
RST38hAlthough it is less flashy, true22:34
javispedrobasically, in this day and age, a big black shiny button on the phone with a "Don't panic" caption is enough to win the Phone maker's Nobel Prize.22:34
javispedroend of user interface :)22:34
lcukcapital P please22:34
lcukits important!22:34
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RST38hjavis: you forgot shiny =)22:35
lcukand the color needs changing from black to slate22:35
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RST38hlcuk: go for all capitals, in bloody red: DON'T PANIC22:35
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lcukwe will have to let timeless do the translations22:35
lcukso it doesnt really matter what22:36
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RST38hAnd it MUST have Twitter client22:36
* timeless_mbp sighs22:36
timeless_mbplcuk: an update translation should come out w/in 6hrs22:36
RST38hEverything must have a twitter client nowadays22:36
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jaskatwitter client? never saw the point in that service/site22:37
lcukirc for web2.022:37
mavhctwitter is interactive rss22:38
lcukor the backend db for it at least22:38
RST38hjaska: Why? You can have a toilet with a twitter client so that it twits "Taking a shit, 5:47pm" every time you visit it22:38
RST38hjaska: Isn't it mighty cool? Isn't it? Web 2.0 duuuuude!22:38
mavhcRST38h: that's as quaint as saying everyone's blog is about their cat22:38
jaskamake the toilet send messages when its flushed?22:38
jaskablahblahs_toilet: flushed 1231g of fecal matter22:39
RST38hmavhc: What if someone does not have a cat?22:39
lcukRT: @toilet flushing, extra power.22:39
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Shapeshiftermhh, when trying to install xterm in the SDK I get: xterm: Depends: xbitmaps but it is not installable22:39
lcukit needs hashtags22:39
mavhcthen why would they have a blog? I don't understand!22:39
lcukits a bog22:40
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hotaru2k3twitter is like like reading everything that gets sent to /dev/null22:40
mavhcfollow more interesting people then, duh22:41
RST38hmavhc: not on twitter though22:41
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RST38hMer autobuilder is about the most interesting "blog" you can follow on Twitter22:41
lcuki think this is the best twitter account
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StskeepsRST38h: we have a autobuilder twitter?22:43
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* Shapeshifter <3 maemo22:43
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Stskeepswe used to, obviously.22:44
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: Maybe that old ass Jaiku. (Which, BTW, was more fun than OBS)22:44
Stskeepsyeah, it was fun..22:44
Xisdibikqwerty12_N900: your making me sad22:44
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RST38hSts: Well, someone had22:44
RST38hSts: I think it was Mer, wasn't it?22:45
qwerty12Xisdibik: Why? ;P22:45
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Xisdibikqwerty12: your other name ;)22:47
* timeless_mbp sighs22:47
* timeless_mbp wants to kick something22:47
qwerty12Xisdibik: qwerty12_N800? qwerty12_N810?22:47
* Xisdibik hands timeless_mbp Amazon.com22:47
qwerty12timeless_mbp: Tweet it22:47
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timeless_mbpXisdibik: is it near mexico city?22:48
Xisdibikqwerty12: the one you were using just a moment ago ;)22:48
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: no its not unfortauntely :(22:48
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qwerty12Xisdibik: I haven't a clue what you're talking about. *whistles*22:48
timeless_mbpXisdibik: are you near mexico city?22:48
Xisdibikqwerty12: :(22:49
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: depends what you define near as ;)22:49
timeless_mbpwilling to go on a field trip to22:49
timeless_mbpwhat other definition is there? :)22:49
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Xisdibikhaha, not sure,  i mean theres some cities "near" me, but i wouldnt want to take a field trip to it22:50
XisdibikStockton being a great example22:50
qwerty12timeless_mbp: Did you ever file bugs against gtk20-l10n?22:50
timeless_mbpqwerty12: you mean for having en-gb as the translation for en-us?22:50
timeless_mbpor ... ?22:50
qwerty12timeless: This package: . I saw its changelog and an entry made me think of you22:51
* timeless_mbp ponders22:51
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* timeless_mbp ponders22:55
timeless_mbpthat could be me22:55
* timeless_mbp wonders how the heck to check22:55
timeless_mbpnot exactly the most descriptive of messages22:55
* lcuk giggles.22:57
timeless_mbpi sent an email to 3 people @nokia-mexico-city yesterday22:58
timeless_mbpand i just got a reply from one of htem22:58
infobottimeless_mbp meant: and i just got a reply from one of them22:58
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timeless_mbpthere's only one bug against gtk20-l10n22:59
timeless_mbpit's an import of bug 404422:59
povbotBug en-US gtk localization file is en-GB22:59
andre__RST38h, I once used my N810 at -15 degrees Celsius and it was just damn slow23:00
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RST38handre: should actually be pretty fast as long as battery holds out23:00
timeless_mbpqwerty12: you're free to file a bug complaining that the changelog was politically incorrect ;-)23:01
jerhumnice day i've received my n900 :)23:01
Stskeepsjerhum: welcome :)23:01
* RST38h left his wristwatch at the sun once for 15 minutes, and the LCD went completely black23:01
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jerhumbut i doesn't found how to browse smb share ?23:02
Stskeepsjerhum: maemo5.0 does not support that23:02
qwerty12timeless_mbp: Hehe, bugs aren't my thing. I may provide shitty patches for some, but that's as far as my involvement goes23:02
Stskeepsyou'll need a third party thing for it23:02
timeless_mbpqwerty12: someday ... we'll fix that :)23:02
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timeless_mbpso um23:02
xorAxAxis there java for maemo 5?23:02
Stskeepsjerhum: that said, it's a matter of making a kernel module for it or interface to smbclient or the likes23:03
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: not preinstalled23:03
timeless_mbpif java is open source, you're welcome to port it23:03
timeless_mbpor you could find someone / some project which already exists (e.g. jalimo)23:03
timeless_mbpheck, if it's closed source, you're welcome to license it and pay someone to port it :)23:03
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: why can't he pay someone to port it if it's open?23:04
timeless_mbpor that!23:04
timeless_mbpso many choices!23:04
javispedroor why he can't license it and port it himself?23:04
timeless_mbpor that!23:04
ShadowJKSun has a binary you can download freeofcharge for "development" purposes23:04
xorAxAxwhy wasnt it ported yet? :)23:05
luke-jrwhy can't Nokia give him the hardware schematics so he can embed a Java CPU himself?23:05
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timeless_mbpxorAxAx: i'm not sure i actually said that23:05
luke-jrxorAxAx: cuz nobody cares about Java?23:05
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xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: the website is slow so i cant check :)23:05
ShadowJKluke-jr, the CPU has a java mode actually...23:05
timeless_mbp'the website'?23:05
qwerty12luke-jr: Wow, I'd never thought I'd find myself agreeing with you on a point23:05
ShadowJKnot that anyone uses it :)23:05
timeless_mbpa java vm + class library is not exactly tiny23:05
ali1234luke-jr: omap3 already has jazelle support23:06
luke-jrqwerty12: which point?23:06
luke-jrali1234: Jazelle is not a complete Java implementation23:06
RST38hOMAP3 has "trivial" Jazelle support23:06
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mavhcthe problem is mobile java isn't free23:06
RST38hI.e. it does not really support Jazelle23:06
ali1234ShadowJK: nobody uses it because arm won't tell anyone how it works23:06
RST38hHas got a dummy BJ instruction23:06
mavhcjazelle is only hardware for some java stuff, not all of it23:06
javispedroali1234: nobody uses it because it's not worth it.23:06
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timeless_mbpthe only really cool flavor of that was Crusoe23:07
timeless_mbptoo bad it didn't win23:07
luke-jrTransmeta's chip?23:07
ShadowJKand crusoe was supposedly "only" "microcode on steroids"23:07
xorAxAxhmm, does jalimo support j2me apps?23:07
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: since none of us actually deal in java23:07
timeless_mbpasking here is really unlikely to get you anything resembling useful responses23:08
javispedroJalimo is quite a big project and one of their ports should support j2me apps.23:08
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: there are many good people here ;-)23:08
javispedronote though that a) I've not tried it b) It's not fremantle-ready23:08
timeless_mbp(i'm speaking as someone who in a past life actually did work on a java port)23:08
luke-jrxorAxAx: and good people don't use Java23:08
ShadowJKthe intersection of people who deal/are interested in java, and people who could make it build in sb, is approximately 023:08
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: my condolences23:08
* RST38h knows enough details about Crusoe to avoid using "cool" in the same sentence23:08
timeless_mbp(not as a major dev, but i was involved [mostly java to mozilla bridge work]23:08
timeless_mbpStskeeps: hey, it was a summer job23:09
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timeless_mbpthe guys who did the serious work were actually quite cool23:09
* RST38h works with these guys like right now23:09
timeless_mbp(this was probably 2000)23:09
timeless_mbpin a life before that, i actually dabbled w/ netbeans :)23:10
xorAxAxluke-jr: yes, they use python, i know :)23:10
timeless_mbp(when it was forte for java)23:10
derfI've actually done Java development since 1996 or so.23:10
derfI just have no interest in seeing it on these devices.23:10
luke-jrxorAxAx: no wai! Perl ftw23:10
timeless_mbpderf: commercial, or as a student? :)23:10
derftimeless_mbp: As a student, then commercial.23:10
timeless_mbpderf: i was playing w/ java around 9623:11
timeless_mbp(in high school)23:11
xorAxAxluke-jr: perl is useful to make urandom executable but not as a language :)23:11
derfI still remember downloading 1.0.1 and having it break all my for loops because they changed the scoping rules.23:11
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ShadowJKI remember 1.3 was the last one where IBM had a fast jre23:12
timeless_mbpi remember having fun dealing w/ differences between 1.0.x, 1.1.x, and 1.2.x23:12
timeless_mbpand i remember jikes23:12
timeless_mbpoh and i remember when hotspot was introduced :)23:12
derfAfter getting bit by g++ changing them also, earlier that year, I stopped declaring variables in the for preamble, ever.23:12
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xorAxAxluke-jr: just look at pypy, who would manage to write a perl interpreter and compiler in perl itself?23:12
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timeless_mbpxorAxAx: um23:13
luke-jrxorAxAx: I'm sure it's been done.23:13
timeless_mbpiirc perl mostly self hosts23:13
luke-jrparsing is Perl's strength23:13
derftimeless_mbp: Thanks to browsers, I _still_ have to support code running in 1.1.x.23:13
xorAxAxtimeless_mbp: isnt it written in C?23:13
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: oh some of perl is C23:13
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timeless_mbpbut ..23:13
derfIt turns out Sun's compiler can't even produce code that will run on the original VMs any longer.23:13
javispedroI'm sure someone could actually parse and interpret a subset of Perl in less than 80 chars worth of Perl =)23:14
derfDespite the supposed compatibility options.23:14
luke-jrjavispedro: I doubt it, as Perl is actually non-parsable.23:14
timeless_mbpluke-jr: for a very limited set of statements :)23:14
luke-jrjavispedro: code can mean entirely different things based on modules loaded23:14
xorAxAxi claim that a parser of perl in perl would be unmaintanable23:14
javispedroluke-jr: what, does perl support override of "braces" or other token's meaning?23:15
luke-jrjavispedro: yes23:15
ShadowJKthe trouble with python is that it's source code doubles as its language definition23:15
xorAxAxShadowJK: i dont understand23:15
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timeless_mbpeffectively it isn't a standard23:16
timeless_mbpit's an implementation which is the rule23:16
luke-jrjavispedro: for example, the Lingua::Romana::Perligata module replaces braces with 'sic' and 'cis' keywords23:16
timeless_mbpif there's a bug in the implementtion23:16
timeless_mbpthen that's the rule23:16
* andre__ has his first WTF experience with Nokia's emergency call function in device lock23:17
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Xisdibikandre__: what happend?23:17
zaheermplease test zoutube from extra-testing guys and vote on
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Stskeepsandre__: your code starts with 112?23:18
XisdibikStskeeps: 112???23:18
ShadowJKemergency call23:18
zaheerm112 is european emergency number23:18
andre__in Yurop it's 11223:18
Stskeepsoh dear23:18
StskeepsTMO's being DDoSed23:18
ShadowJK... and nothing of value was lost ;)23:18
qwerty12Xisdibik: Yeah, you can shove your lousy 911!23:18
javispedroluke-jr: so it's just replacing the tokenizer. not impossible to parse then.23:18
andre__yeah. it's awesome. and only because of the UK thread! we should block all UK IPs! ;-)23:18
RST38hStskeeps: Really?23:19
RST38hStskeeps: Not by Googlebot I hope? :)23:19
* qwerty12 stares at andre__ 23:19
luke-jrjavispedro: you'd need to execute the module's code to go on23:19
Xisdibikqwerty12: dont make me fly over there and take your N900! :P  cuz you know i will do it!23:19
qwerty12Xisdibik: I dare you! :p23:19
andre__qwerty12: don't make such eyes at me, sigh... :-P23:19
javispedroexactly, but I said an interpreter.23:19
qwerty12andre__: Aww... :( :p23:20
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RST38hStskeeps: I am for the martial law =)23:21
RST38h(followed by regular exe^H^H^Hsacrifice)23:22
andre__yay, ddos... apple! google! microsoft! conspiracy! I should go trolling in the talk forum...23:22
Xisdibikqwerty12: I decided you can keep your n900, its for the betterment of the maemo community ;)23:22
javispedroluke-jr: sorry, you're right, I was understimating Perl's weird abilities.23:22
type_t2so whos messing with the any SDK rootstrap for cross development?23:22
qwerty12Xisdibik: Couldn't find the UK?23:22
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Xisdibikqwerty12: ive been to the UK 3 times, almost moved there permantently one of them :P23:23
type_t2i'm screwing  with the i386 stuff. just let my fingers do the conspiracy talk.23:24
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GeneralAntillesandre__, fail.23:24
GeneralAntillesIt's a /Nokia/ conspiracy, duh.23:24
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GeneralAntillesThey don't want Talk spreading around anymore negative press.23:24
andre__GeneralAntilles, true, that's even more likely!23:25
javispedroTalk's been killed?23:25
* javispedro jumps23:25
type_t2wel lets raise HELL23:25
andre__javispedro, not really, it just smelled funny today23:25
MilhouseApparently it got DDOS'd23:25
MilhouseBack now though23:25
RST38hplease do not raise hell23:26
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andre__so can somebody please define the term "Device lock" for me?23:26
* andre__ is confused whether he runs into features or bugs23:26
RST38hplease seat quietly and attempt to think before you press the submit button on t.m.o23:26
ShadowJKoooh, nokia emailed me today to say my N900 is in the mail :D23:26
type_t2so its a $600+ DOLLAR unit.. right ..23:26
RST38hread your comment twice, if you still want to push that submit button, do23:26
ShadowJKor with a courier who'll undoubtedly get lost... i hope it's in the mail23:26
Xisdibikandre__: its when you put a padlock around your phone :D23:26
xorAxAxkensington :)23:26
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andre__Xisdibik, okay. need to rename functions in that case :-P23:27
ShadowJKandre__, I think there's some legal mumbo jumbo requiring phones to dial emergency number even when locked23:27
andre__ShadowJK, yeah, sure, I think I'm aware of it23:27
ShadowJKa feature would be to warn the user that "9112" is not a good choice for lock code23:28
Xisdibikwoot im famous23:28
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andre__I think I should read Nokia's supersecret UI Specifications to get a clue about Device lock...23:28
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GAN900type_t2, under $500 at Amazon.23:29
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MilhouseWhere are people getting all these multiple 15% discount codes in the UK?23:30
MilhouseI see people using 3x 15% discount codes plus another 10% discount and wonder wtf? :)23:31
timeless_mbpandre__: you could read my strings :)23:31
StskeepsMilhouse: also a lot of them getting orders cancelled :P23:31
timeless_mbpShadowJK: there is indeed such mumbo jumbo23:31
MilhouseSts: yeah, but seems a bit random23:31
andre__"I got 7 of those discount codes, now Nokia has to pay me some money"23:32
MilhouseSts: It might be cheaper to get a device through retail with these discounts that to persist with DDP23:32
Milhouseandre: :)23:32
SpeedEvilStskeeps: well - more have said it worked than hasn't.23:32
MilhouseAnyone know the source of these codes?23:32
timeless_mbpandre__: so...23:32
SpeedEvilmillenomi: It just happened that had a few voucher codes for the n90023:32
timeless_mbpThere's Device Lock, SIM Lock, and Screen Lock23:33
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SpeedEvilMilhouse: I think most of the codes have now expired23:33
millenomiwho dares summon my na-- oh, nick mishap23:33
timeless_mbpDevice Lock is basically a CAL based pin which you need to enable the device23:33
timeless_mbpminus emergency calls23:33
andre__timeless_mbp, strings? what? where? why?23:33
MilhouseSpeedEvil: Bummer... thanks. I'll have a snout around topcashback though just in case23:33
timeless_mbpSIM Lock is a SIM based pin (plus PIN2 and PUK and friends) which you need to enable Network services23:33
timeless_mbpandre__: enus123:33
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SpeedEvil - 12% ATM23:33
andre__nope. no time :)23:33
timeless_mbpnetwork services may or may not include emergency call23:34
timeless_mbp(it technically iirc varies by country)23:34
timeless_mbp(i.e. local law)23:34
SpeedEvilthe UK you can't make calls without a SIM23:34
timeless_mbpScreen Lock prevents most key / pressure input23:34
SpeedEvilA valid SIM, logged onto a network23:34
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timeless_mbpand can be unlocked by opening the screen, using the sliding thing at one side23:34
timeless_mbpor by pressing power and then sliding the thingy on the screen23:35
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MilhouseSpeedEvil - so are these codes "earned"?23:35
timeless_mbpandre__: anyway, is that clear as mud?23:35
MilhouseSpeedEvil: ie. I've got to buy stuff before getting a code?23:35
SpeedEvilMilhouse: no.23:35
MilhouseSpeedEvil: So just give an email address and that's it?23:35
SpeedEvilMilhouse: It happened that tehre was a 15% discount, a 15% discount code that someone found for 'accessories' - and then a 15% nokia-club or something one23:36
andre__timeless_mbp, oh yeah :)23:36
SpeedEvilthe topcashback site gets commission for orders you place through them. They pass this onto you23:36
timeless_mbpandre__: do you have an ubuntu/debian system somewhere?23:37
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andre__"nokia-club"? sounds like a finnish mixed sauna with some extras "services"...23:37
andre__timeless_mbp, yes, on the computer next to this one (but not switched on)23:37
timeless_mbpbecause you can use the advanced options portion of my package to do localization lookup23:37
javispedronokia-conspiracy sounds much better.23:37
timeless_mbpwhich could at times be helpful :)23:37
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andre__hmm, true :)23:37
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qwerty12javispedro: Can I apt-get install that?23:38
javispedrono, it apt-get installs you.23:39
MilhouseSpeedEvil: Hmmm looks like there's just a 15% discount on accessories and a 10% discount on selected phones (not including N900)23:39
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javispedromore like it apt-get purges you.23:42
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SpeedEvilthe accessories discount was one I used, and it worked for the phone23:45
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SpeedEvilEnter it - see if it works in the cart. You can see before checking out.23:45
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GeneralAntillesMilhouse, are there any aftermarket warranty services in the UK?23:45
GeneralAntillesMilhouse, the SquareTrade thing in the US is actually a pretty decent idea.23:46
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lcukwhats that then GeneralAntilles ?23:46
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SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: warranty has to be 12 months in the UK (generally)23:46
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: and you can return it unless you don't like it until 10 days for a full refund, including shipping.23:47
xorAxAxcan the n900 act as a bluetooth modem for a notebook?23:47
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, not for DDP.23:47
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: yes23:47
timeless_mbpxorAxAx: google for it23:47
GeneralAntilles~bluetooth-profiles is
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles23:48
MilhouseGeneralAntilles: Not that I'm aware of23:48
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: I'm unsure that is legal.23:48
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MilhouseSpeedEvil/GA: Yes, a 1 week warranty is pretty dodgey ground from a legal standpoint in the UK23:48
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type_t2instead of passing the link .why dont you just say yas or no?..23:49
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: the distance selling act certainly does not have any language saying 'unless you have a karma >200'23:49
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GeneralAntillestype_t2, because the link guides you through the steps necessary to do it? :)23:49
type_t2tethering not allowed. is what you should say23:52
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GeneralAntillestype_t2, problem is, that's not actually the case.23:52
penguinbaittype_t2 are you always this rude to people actually trying to help you?23:53
GeneralAntillestype_t2, unless you actually know more about this than me, I recommend you try absorbing information rather than lecturing. :)23:53
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, he's being rude to people trying to help other people, actually.23:53
GeneralAntillesPeanut gallery.23:53
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type_t2ok i see you tell me i i'm lecturing ..just said i would that you rather say yes or no instead of posting links .. thats not rude.  :p23:58
javispedroso let's sue Nokia.23:59
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