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| paroneayea | GeneralAntilles: so is this the way to go for mapping the keyboard? http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/mapping_the_n900_keyboard/ | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| GeneralAntilles | I unsubbed from -users at least 18 months ago, so I dunno. ;) | 00:01 |
| * GeneralAntilles recommends avoiding that particular list. | 00:02 | |
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| * GeneralAntilles waits for the page to load. | 00:02 | |
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| paroneayea | yeah, I could see that being quite noisy | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a lot of Android and iPhone people on there, too. ;) | 00:03 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, that's helpful | 00:03 |
| timeless_mbp | do i want to know why they're on there? | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | As a side note, maemo.org is getting a server upgrade RSN. | 00:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, why people like that insist on hanging around and trolling communities they have no reason to be a part of is a question I'd really like an answer to. | 00:03 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N900: um | 00:04 |
| timeless_mbp | it didn't work? | 00:04 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 00:05 |
| timeless_mbp | it kinda did | 00:05 |
| timeless_mbp | ouch | 00:05 |
| timeless_mbp | that's *bad* | 00:05 |
| timeless_mbp | so um, that sucks | 00:05 |
| timeless_mbp | the uninstall and install both warn about the reboot | 00:05 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | You're using zenity to warn about something in a postinst? Just use maemo-confirm-text, or do what I did and just popup a HildonBanner | 00:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | i want to ask about rebooting | 00:06 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Ah | 00:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i need to not do it from there | 00:06 |
| timeless_mbp | the problem is... | 00:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not really sure where to do it | 00:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | there are at least 3 cases: | 00:07 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. installing the package for the first time | 00:07 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. uninstalling the package | 00:07 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. using the control panel applet | 00:07 |
| timeless_mbp | 4. upgrading the package | 00:07 |
| timeless_mbp | in 3, the control panel could manage to warn about the reboot | 00:08 |
| timeless_mbp | in 1 and 2, the package needs to do the reboot | 00:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | in 4, i need to offer, but only once | 00:09 |
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| sp3000 | just put the warning in every dialog :P | 00:10 |
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| sp3000 | ooh, I'm subscribed to -users | 00:12 |
| sp3000 | 11k unread, hmm | 00:12 |
| sp3000 | that's not working so well ;) | 00:12 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | God/Nokia, why the hell are the default feeds in the RSS Reader Twitter ones? | 00:14 |
| range | To show that updating works? >:) | 00:15 |
| qwerty12_N900 | I miss BBC World News from Maemo 4 :( | 00:15 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | (Yes, I should stop being a drama queen but I've already typed in that feed's URL 7 times now) | 00:16 |
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| sp3000 | actually what I'm cusrious about is whether it's possible to enumerate the 1st 3rd and 4th levels in the kb mapping without touching the second | 00:18 |
| * GeneralAntilles hopes that clears things up a bit. | 00:19 | |
| sp3000 | for the shift-arrows selection reason | 00:19 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, that's interesting | 00:19 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=385315&postcount=1 | 00:19 |
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| Stskeeps | The next device, running Harmattan, will feature a capacitive, multi-touch, WVGA (800x480) screen. The core of Maemo 6, useful for testing, will be installable on N900, although it won't be fully functional (hardware difference). | 00:20 |
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| Stskeeps | nice to see they're going out of the way to provide it somehow | 00:23 |
| * mgedmin wants to complain about ukeyboard 2.0-6 being non-installable | 00:24 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | Stskeeps: Well, if they did not, the torrent of anti-Nokia comments would be well deserved | 00:24 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: i already did | 00:24 |
| timeless_mbp | they're going to fix it | 00:24 |
| mgedmin | good | 00:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't believe Nokia doesn't get that dropping support every year or so isn't a good business plan. | 00:24 |
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| mgedmin | timeless_mbp, just to make sure, it's the "/var/lib/dpkg/info/ukeyboard.postinst: line 21: rename: not found" bug, right? | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | my bug was the find -exec problem | 00:25 |
| mgedmin | heh, *two* bugs, what fun! | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | they take comments in the package promotion stuff | 00:25 |
| timeless_mbp | comment there and thumbs down | 00:25 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: at least they're making support a hell lot easier to do. | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, doesn't help end users, though. | 00:26 |
| Stskeeps | i doubt there'd be a m5->m6 SSU | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just a shitty thing to do. | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially after those comments about at least 2 rounds. | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | A flashable image is workable. | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Asking people to seek out a community distribution to upgrade is not. | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Talk has but me in an awfully bad mood this evening. | 00:27 |
| Stskeeps | why not, though? are we just admitting we're not capable? :) | 00:27 |
| javispedro | I doubt m5->m6 upgrade path and that post nearly confirms it. | 00:27 |
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| javispedro | *too. | 00:27 |
| range | Well, reinstall would be in order, I thinl. | 00:27 |
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| range | *think | 00:28 |
| range | Upgrade to 2008 required that too, didn't it? | 00:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, because it's a PR disaster. | 00:28 |
| Stskeeps | really though? with all the cooked roms and such out there | 00:29 |
| Stskeeps | and i don't know how long time they will support fremantle. doubt it's getting dropped at PR1.1. | 00:29 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 00:29 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Because they're choosing to jettison large portions of their community for the sake of dubious "hardware" issues. | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're certainly not going to support it side-by-side. | 00:30 |
| javispedro | "hardware issues" --> multitouch all over the interface. | 00:30 |
| * timeless_mbp curse | 00:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 00:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here know where the lame Hildon Yes/No dialogs are used? | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, which is just inane. | 00:30 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: not from a PR PoV. | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Multitouch isn't even necessary on the iPhone. | 00:31 |
| timeless_mbp | gan: but we're nokia | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=386170&postcount=63 | 00:31 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 00:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Bottom of the signature. | 00:32 |
| timeless_mbp | we require you to install a rose colored glasses filter to ignore our spelling of "Cuidad de México" :) | 00:32 |
| javispedro | LOL | 00:32 |
| javispedro | Cuidad de México means "take care of México" | 00:32 |
| javispedro | imperative form, second person plural | 00:32 |
| javispedro | s/form/mood | 00:33 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: let them experience the feeling getting a WONTFIX in your carefully made bugreport is! | 00:36 |
| javispedro | s/WONTFIX/Fixed in a device you may or may not buy ;) | 00:36 |
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| Macer | hm | 00:36 |
| Macer | going to install win7 on one of my boxes | 00:36 |
| Macer | i honestly should install debian or something on it.. but meh.. i need something that can run mediaportal | 00:37 |
| Macer | i should try out mythtv.. never bothered with it before | 00:37 |
| Macer | last i tried it was total garbage :) | 00:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | javispedro: did you see it btw? | 00:38 |
| javispedro | timeless_mbp: nope | 00:38 |
| javispedro | can I see that on SDK? | 00:38 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.flagship.nokia.com/ | 00:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | it requires flash :) | 00:38 |
| javispedro | ah, not on device :P | 00:38 |
| javispedro | heh | 00:38 |
| tbf | do i have to register for each package i want to upload to extras-devel? | 00:38 |
| javispedro | :) | 00:39 |
| timeless_mbp | tbf: eh? | 00:39 |
| javispedro | WTF | 00:40 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, does http://www.meet-your-city.com/ load for anyone? | 00:40 |
| javispedro | "Store is now closed, it opens at 0undefined:00 PM" | 00:40 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a link to it from the bottom left of that page | 00:40 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: lol | 00:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oops, the travel agent put me in Barcelona 7:45 Friday morning. | 00:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles is going to be tired on Friday. | 00:40 | |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: just tried to upload a new version of glib-json, but didn't get any response from the autobuilder | 00:40 |
| tbf | hmm. should try the web iface | 00:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | i haven't used ssh in ages | 00:41 |
| javispedro | poor Nokia clients in S~ao Paulo | 00:41 |
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| GAN900 | Anybody else flying out on Monday? | 00:45 |
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| jaem | good morning | 00:46 |
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| zerojay | GAN900: lol... yeah, just saw the sig. | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, recalling, yet again, why I hate that place. | 00:50 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: my fault. generated a bad _source.changes file | 00:51 |
| timeless_mbp | it didn't warn? | 00:51 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: no message from dput, no mail from autobuilder | 00:53 |
| tbf | but the web interface told me | 00:53 |
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| * javispedro doesn't know whether to assist to the n900 presentation or first ux sessions in bcn long weekend, since there's a non nil chance I won't have touched an n900 by then. | 00:56 | |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, play with somebody's on Thursday? | 00:57 |
| javispedro | what's going on thursday? | 00:58 |
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| paroneayea | GeneralAntilles: so, I can't seem to find any reference to an existing build of emacs for maemo 5, old builds seem to be for maemo 4? Do you know where this is? | 00:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, dunno if anybody's built it for 5 yet. | 00:59 |
| paroneayea | ah okay | 00:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | However the 4 version SHOULD work. | 00:59 |
| javispedro | oh good lord. | 00:59 |
| javispedro | I got the XChat English spell checker working! | 01:00 |
| javispedro | say goodbye to my typos. | 01:00 |
| Flandry_ | assist is a false cognate | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really? | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sweet | 01:00 |
| Flandry_ | i always found that odd | 01:00 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:00 |
| Flandry_ | attend is the word you want :D | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | minus "to" | 01:00 |
| javispedro | Flandry_: ta! | 01:01 |
| Flandry_ | my favorite false cognate is "embarassed" | 01:01 |
| * javispedro remembers a popular ad about that one on TV. | 01:02 | |
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| Flandry_ | oh? | 01:02 |
| javispedro | local TV | 01:02 |
| paroneayea | whoa | 01:03 |
| Flandry_ | assuming a significant bilingual population? | 01:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, hmm? | 01:03 |
| javispedro | I don't remember the details, but iirc it was aimed at the more educated layers | 01:03 |
| paroneayea | / only has 250 mb alotted to it :) | 01:04 |
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| paroneayea | was about to see if I could install emacs on it, probably would have used up all remaining space :) | 01:04 |
| javispedro | specially I don't remember what was advertised, so it was definitely a bad ad ;P | 01:04 |
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| mavhc | seems to be the case with a lot of well known ads | 01:05 |
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| mavhc | I remember seeing an ad, about 9 years ago just before I switched to downloading tv illegally | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, yeah, see /opt. | 01:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, Fremantle packages are generally designed to install to /opt (which is 2GB). | 01:06 |
| paroneayea | weird, /opt doesn't show up when I run `df -h` | 01:06 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=386353#post386353 | 01:06 |
| javispedro | whats cool is how it resembles the n810 keyboard layout.... *sigh* | 01:07 |
| Pavlov | /opt is a symlink | 01:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, /dev/mmcblk0p2 | 01:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | What Pavlov said. | 01:07 |
| paroneayea | GeneralAntilles: aha | 01:07 |
| javispedro | or /home | 01:07 |
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| paroneayea | GeneralAntilles: cool, thanks :) | 01:08 |
| paroneayea | er, thanks Pavlov :) | 01:08 |
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| paroneayea | I guess now is a good time to learn about debian packaging ;p | 01:12 |
| paroneayea | I've been meaning to for some time. | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, we've got lots of skilled packagers in the room. | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, is our debmaster. http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team | 01:13 |
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| paroneayea | :) | 01:14 |
| paroneayea | dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of emacs: | 01:14 |
| paroneayea | emacs depends on libxaw7; however: | 01:14 |
| paroneayea | Package libxaw7 is not installed. | 01:14 |
| paroneayea | guess I should try the no-x version | 01:14 |
| Flandry_ | i gotta say, ever since someone talking here about how the 3-row is good because it reduces thumb travel and allows you to also reach the screen, i've been feeling like my Zaurus keyboard is way too spread out | 01:15 |
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| Flandry_ | i've always thought of it as an awesome keyboard, but i can see the case for closer spacing on thumboard | 01:15 |
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| paroneayea | dpkg: error processing emacs_22.1-1_armel-nox.deb (--install): | 01:21 |
| paroneayea | failed in buffer_write(fd) (9, ret=-1): backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/progmodes/antlr-mode.elc': No space left on device | 01:21 |
| paroneayea | 01:21 | |
| paroneayea | well I gues emacs tried installing to / after all :) | 01:21 |
| javispedro | yeah if you got a diablo .deb | 01:22 |
| javispedro | I mean, a pre fremantle .deb package . | 01:22 |
| javispedro | you'll have to get maemo-optify and run maemo-optify-deb on the .deb file | 01:22 |
| javispedro | or if you're building it read about maemo-optify stuff . | 01:22 |
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| * javispedro twitches | 01:27 | |
| javispedro | someone saying "all applications are Qt" | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | About what, where? | 01:27 |
| javispedro | about n900, some local reviewer... | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 01:28 |
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| javispedro | youtube comment in a video showing the older ugly N900/rover protos: "Where can I get the metal case which is in the video?" | 01:39 |
| javispedro | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-c8iHZBd4 | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, those are the Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend cases. | 01:40 |
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| javispedro | case? or is that the actual device housing | 01:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a case. | 01:42 |
| Macer | blah | 01:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Similar to the one the Adobe guy used for that unannounced Android phone during the Flash 10.1 presentation. | 01:42 |
| javispedro | ouch then. | 01:43 |
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| KenYoung | Is there a default root password which can be used on the n900 when executing a commad with sudo ? | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no user password | 01:48 |
| andre__ | install rootsh from Extras repository | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 01:48 |
| andre__ | and use sudo gainroot | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, "root" | 01:48 |
| KenYoung | GeneralAntilles, Where does one find the Extras repository? | 01:49 |
| andre__ | Start Application Manager, click the menu bar, choose "Application catalogues" | 01:49 |
| KenYoung | Thanks! | 01:49 |
| andre__ | I think there should already be an "Maemo Extras" entry that you have to enable first | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just use the .install link here. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh | 01:49 |
| andre__ | That also works :) | 01:50 |
| KenYoung | Thanks again. | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ugh, stupid Extras. | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | er, Downloads. | 01:50 |
| andre__ | heh | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/ | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | That | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stupid search doesn't find the Maemo 5 version. | 01:50 |
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| xorAxAx | nice to see that nokia stopped calling maemo differently (OS 2008 etc.) at the surface | 01:52 |
| xorAxAx | is maemo 5 based on qt? | 01:52 |
| andre__ | no, on gtk. | 01:52 |
| andre__ | maemo 6 will be based on qt | 01:52 |
| xorAxAx | wp-de claims that 5.1 will only have community supported gtk | 01:53 |
| range | 5.1? | 01:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | xorAxAx, the maemo (lowercase m) project was the open source part of Internet Tablet OS. | 01:53 |
| andre__ | xorAxAx, a great and reliable source. | 01:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | xorAxAx, Nokia finally decided to adopt it as their brand last year. | 01:53 |
| andre__ | may I quickly edit that wikipedia page to state that Maemo 4 was based on Windows Mobile? | 01:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | xorAxAx, yeah, they're fools. ;) | 01:53 |
| xorAxAx | andre__: i guess its just outdated :) | 01:53 |
| andre__ | true. yes :-) | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | xorAxAx, nope, just plain wrong. | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | That was never the case. | 01:54 |
| andre__ | people guessing stuff. wikipedia. | 01:54 |
| crashanddie | I managed not to smoke for a week | 01:54 |
| crashanddie | well | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo | 01:54 |
| crashanddie | less than a week | 01:54 |
| * GeneralAntilles hands crashanddie a cup of coffee. | 01:54 | |
| lardman | re | 01:54 |
| crashanddie | since wednesday afternoon really | 01:54 |
| lardman | how's things chaps | 01:54 |
| lardman | ? | 01:54 |
| crashanddie | but fuck it, I'm going to buy fags | 01:55 |
| lardman | Can anyone think, off hand, how I should clear my non-double-buffered gtk_drawing_area after I do a screen rotate to get rid of any artefacts therein? | 01:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Correctly? | 01:57 |
| lardman | nah, just any old way so it doens't look like I have two sets of buttons and labels | 01:58 |
| lardman | I guess I'll have to draw a big black square to it | 01:59 |
| xorAxAx | can maemo 5 sync the calendar via syncml? | 02:00 |
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| crashanddie | xorAxAx, not that I'm aware of | 02:02 |
| xorAxAx | but it can sync the contacts? | 02:02 |
| xorAxAx | thats incomplete :) | 02:02 |
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| lardman | hmm, apparently my rotation stuff isn't actually working | 02:09 |
| lardman | how do people output debugging info when they connect to libosso? | 02:10 |
| lardman | (as I can't start stuff from the command line any more) | 02:10 |
| crashanddie | w00t, google wave invite :D | 02:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | so um | 02:12 |
| mgedmin | lardman, write to a file in /tmp? | 02:12 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here see Yes/No dialogs from apps other than the browser? | 02:12 |
| lardman | mgedmin: yeah, I guess so | 02:12 |
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| crashanddie | lardman, use system logger? | 02:12 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: yes, my app has them ;) | 02:12 |
| lardman | crashanddie: sounds involved | 02:12 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lardman: libosso has logging macros, actually =) | 02:13 |
| lardman | really....? | 02:13 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: how broken would your app be if i changed them to OK/Cancel? | 02:13 |
| lardman | "Would you like to open this URL?" | 02:13 |
| lardman | probably no more broken than most Windows apps | 02:13 |
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| lardman | "Windows is about to delete everthing on your hard disc", "OK?" | 02:14 |
| lardman | no, it's bloody not! | 02:14 |
| lardman | etc | 02:14 |
| lardman | :) | 02:14 |
| timeless_mbp | Cancel! | 02:14 |
| lardman | ah, those ones don't have any other options | 02:14 |
| lardman | so they should just be informing you, rather than asking | 02:15 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 02:16 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, "delete contact|conversation" has them | 02:16 |
| lcuk | do you want todelete this contact on|cancel doesnt sound as clear | 02:17 |
| timeless_mbp | using OK/Cancel there seems ok | 02:17 |
| lcuk | ok | 02:17 |
| lcuk | ive seen red ones too | 02:17 |
| lardman | it works, but is poor English | 02:17 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: Going for the GTK stock strings? | 02:17 |
| timeless_mbp | Clear all messages in this conversation? | 02:17 |
| lcuk | with extra emphasis | 02:17 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N900: going to unbreak the browser | 02:17 |
| timeless_mbp | which requires breaking hildon | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | because the idiots | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | forced browser to use hildon yes-now | 02:18 |
| lardman | can they not fix it when they recompile rather than changing the strings? | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | they refuse to let us fix it | 02:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a feature-requirement | 02:19 |
| lardman | who's they? | 02:19 |
| timeless_mbp | coming from high-idiots | 02:19 |
| timeless_mbp | ui leads | 02:19 |
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| lardman | feature that it has to use yes/no ? | 02:19 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 02:19 |
| lardman | seems reasonable, or have they used it in the wrong places? | 02:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | correct | 02:20 |
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| lardman | well, tbh, breaking other apps is probably not the way forward | 02:20 |
| timeless_mbp | so | 02:20 |
| lcuk | codechange | 02:20 |
| diegoviola | does maemo use gtk or qt? | 02:21 |
| lardman | bugs against the browser? | 02:21 |
| lardman | diegoviola: gtk atm, qt for the next version | 02:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't make the code change because management requires us to allow the ui designers to dictate how the browser should work | 02:21 |
| diegoviola | lardman: nice | 02:21 |
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| lardman | diegoviola: in fact with be both for the next version, but moving to qt | 02:21 |
| timeless_mbp | even though the dialog is used by web pages | 02:21 |
| lcuk | not directly timeless, but lardman is right, just file this one as a bug | 02:22 |
| lardman | and you can also use qt now if you want | 02:22 |
| timeless_mbp | like google mail | 02:22 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: it is filed | 02:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and wontfixed | 02:22 |
| diegoviola | lardman: nice, qt is better | 02:22 |
| timeless_mbp | (Repatedly) | 02:22 |
| timeless_mbp | even though each localization has complained | 02:22 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: what's the #? | 02:22 |
| lcuk | how many points if the factorisation in | 02:22 |
| lcuk | is the | 02:22 |
| timeless_mbp | 5130 | 02:22 |
| lcuk | bug 5130 | 02:23 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5130 Use of "yes/no" in JavaScript confirmation dialogues is confusing | 02:23 |
| diegoviola | any sip softphone for the maemo? | 02:23 |
| lcuk | thanks povbot! | 02:23 |
| timeless_mbp | diegoviola: the native support isn't good enough? | 02:23 |
| diegoviola | oh didn't knew it had one | 02:24 |
| diegoviola | thx | 02:24 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: New GConf key: /apps/fix_retarded_ui_decisions, hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons(window, "message", gconf_client_get_bool(client, "/apps/fix_retarded_ui_decisions", NULL) ? GTK_STOCK_OK : GTK_STOCK_YES | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | can't work | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | among other reasons we don't use gtk apis | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | we use hildon | 02:24 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: could they not just alter the text in the dialog? | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | and we're gated by evil people who refuse to allow us to make unapproved changes | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | (or changes in general for that matter) | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: you want the entire web to change its messages? | 02:24 |
| timeless_mbp | just to work with one stupid browser on one device that no one in their right mind would use? | 02:25 |
| lardman | no clue, where does that come from then? | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, great idea | 02:25 |
| lcuk | yes | 02:25 |
| lcuk | file a bug with the internet at large | 02:25 |
| lardman | ah it's from gmail is it? | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | "dear internet" | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | "nokia doesn't like your pretext, please change it. k. thx' | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: gmail is one example, yes | 02:25 |
| timeless_mbp | gmail should just give us /x and be done with it | 02:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | "screw nokia, they're idiots and broke js support for gmail anyway, have mobile" | 02:26 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders if people have noticed that we broke gmail | 02:26 | |
| lardman | it must be possible to apply a binary patch to the flags for that dialog | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | internals have noticed | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | not particularly easily | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | it's calling a hildon api function | 02:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd have to find a similar abi gtk function with similar function length | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm much more willing to break everyone else | 02:27 |
| lardman | oh right, I thought it was just a standard gtk dialog | 02:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i believe i made myself very clear repeatedly above that we were using a hildon api | 02:27 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: Where on GMail would I find this message? | 02:27 |
| lardman | is late | 02:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N900: if you have unfinished server transactions and try to navigate away | 02:28 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Gotcha | 02:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's fairly easy to trigger | 02:28 |
| lcuk | moreso recently | 02:28 |
| lardman | nighty-night all | 02:29 |
| lcuk | gnite simon | 02:29 |
| lardman | actually belay that order for a minute or two | 02:29 |
| lardman | :) | 02:29 |
| * lcuk puts the bacon back in the fridge gingerly | 02:30 | |
| lcuk | i was ummmm errr just checking its ok | 02:30 |
| crashanddie | which arch is maemo based off? | 02:30 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: You are aware hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_button is a Hildon function? | 02:30 |
| crashanddie | well, which debian version? | 02:30 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: And hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons is the one used for that dialog? | 02:30 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N900: what part of we were ordered not to fix it was unclear? | 02:30 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | You're the one going on about how it wouldn't work | 02:31 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 02:31 |
| timeless_mbp | from a "i can't fix that because i'm ordered not to" | 02:31 |
| KenYoung | On the N900, what directory does the video player look at to find video content? | 02:31 |
| timeless_mbp | not from a "it isn't possible to fix with a few lines of C" | 02:32 |
| timeless_mbp | KenYoung: anywhere it isn't ordered not to index | 02:32 |
| timeless_mbp | which is roughly anything you can see from file manager | 02:32 |
| KenYoung | timeless_mbp, Thanks! | 02:32 |
| timeless_mbp | KenYoung: that's not necessarily the question you actually wanted to ask | 02:33 |
| timeless_mbp | or it might be | 02:33 |
| timeless_mbp | it very much depends on what you actually are trying to do | 02:33 |
| lardman | lcuk: help yourself, had my fill of bacon for this evening | 02:33 |
| lardman | night all! | 02:33 |
| frals | nn | 02:33 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: I still think the GConf key is the way to go. They're UI designers, not programmers =) | 02:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | management isn't letting us change anything for ages anyway | 02:33 |
| KenYoung | timeless_mbp, I just want to download some of my video content via scp, and I don't know where I should put it. | 02:34 |
| timeless_mbp | and each fix we do has to have an explanation | 02:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | KenYoung: so... | 02:34 |
| timeless_mbp | that's a different question :) | 02:34 |
| timeless_mbp | if you stick a file in ~ you get a 2gb limit | 02:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you stick it in ~/MyDocs you get a 30gb limit | 02:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you stick a file in ~/MyDocs/.videos, then people using file manager will see it in the videos folder | 02:35 |
| timeless_mbp | if you stick a file in ~/MyDocs/DCIM, then people using your n900 as usb mass storage will see it in the photos folder | 02:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | DCIM is probably mislabeled as "Camera" unless you have my localization in which case it's probably labeled as "Photos" | 02:36 |
| Anpr | hey anyone from the UK ? | 02:37 |
| timeless_mbp | (which is arguably wrong if you happen to do a lot of video recording | 02:37 |
| timeless_mbp | Anpr: there are such people | 02:37 |
| Anpr | are all of them sleeping ? :) | 02:37 |
| KenYoung | timeless_mbp, Thanks, again. That's just what I wanted to know. | 02:38 |
| timeless_mbp | KenYoung: in the future, i suggest you explain what you're trying to do | 02:38 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise you're likely to get an answer which is not at all what you actually need :) | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Reading comprehension seems to be at about a 5th grade level on Talk. | 02:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | that's pretty high | 02:49 |
| Macer | ugh | 02:50 |
| Macer | that was a pain | 02:50 |
| Macer | usb dvd burners suck | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, what can I say, I'm an optimist. | 02:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | yep | 02:52 |
| Macer | nothing beats a windows install | 02:59 |
| Macer | i think it has reboot like... 4 times already | 03:00 |
| Macer | : | 03:00 |
| Macer | :) | 03:00 |
| RXrenesis8 | amen to that brother | 03:00 |
| Macer | i'm installing it on an older 2.6GHz opteron | 03:00 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, spelling isn't that great either | 03:01 |
| Macer | i should put better hardware in this little box | 03:01 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders where he's gonna sleep Sunday night in Barcelona. | 03:01 | |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, you're in barcelona? | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Erm, December 4-7th | 03:02 |
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| crashanddie | you modafoka | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Come to Barcelona! | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | You gonna be in Australia then? | 03:02 |
| crashanddie | no | 03:02 |
| crashanddie | I'm leaving the south of france on Tue. 5th | 03:02 |
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| crashanddie | So I might just abuse you and drive down to Barca on Monday evening | 03:03 |
| crashanddie | you got a car while you're there? | 03:03 |
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| * crashanddie didn't go buy cigarettes | 03:03 | |
| crashanddie | now I'm starting to be really on edge | 03:03 |
| crashanddie | tomorrow's workday is going to suck for people working in the same building | 03:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol, no, I don't have a car. | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm going to be wandering around with a bunch of Maemo hackers. | 03:05 |
| crashanddie | ok | 03:05 |
| crashanddie | putting it down in my agenda | 03:05 |
| crashanddie | no promises though, lot of stuff happening | 03:05 |
| Macer | going to barcelona to hang out with maemo hackers huh? | 03:06 |
| Macer | sounds hoppin | 03:06 |
| Macer | </SARCASM> | 03:06 |
| crashanddie | any change you can train up north for an evening? | 03:06 |
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| crashanddie | chance** | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, hrm, when's my flight on Monday? . . . | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | 09:55 | 03:06 |
| Macer | damn. one of the fans in this thing died | 03:07 |
| Macer | that's crappy | 03:07 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, so you're landing in barca on monday at 10AM? | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Leaving | 03:10 |
| crashanddie | eh? | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Landing 07:45 December 4th. | 03:10 |
| crashanddie | oh | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend | 03:10 |
| crashanddie | december | 03:10 |
| crashanddie | I'm such an idiot | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | What were you thinking, January? | 03:11 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 03:11 |
| crashanddie | sorry bro | 03:11 |
| crashanddie | I'll be in Calif at that point | 03:11 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 03:11 |
| crashanddie | 111 | 03:11 |
| crashanddie | time for bed | 03:11 |
| crashanddie | ta ta | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Later | 03:11 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: what flight is 12 days long?!? | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Erm? | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | My flight is about 8 hours long. | 03:12 |
| luke-jr | Monday, tomorrow, is Nov 23 | 03:12 |
| luke-jr | that's 12 days before your landing date of Dec 4 | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I'm talking about Monday December 7th. :) | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is when I'm leaving from Barcelona to fly back home. | 03:13 |
| luke-jr | ... | 03:13 |
| luke-jr | oh | 03:13 |
| luke-jr | ok | 03:13 |
| luke-jr | my next question was how you were landing before you departed ;) | 03:13 |
| jaska | causality, schmausality | 03:14 |
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| lcuk | johnx, you must post in the MacGyver thread | 03:20 |
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| * b-man17 feels like throwing his laptop out the window after seeing "TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, sqlite3.Connection found" xP | 03:22 | |
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| lcuk | b-man17, just stop using unicode | 03:22 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: Unicode is practically mandatory in Python 3 | 03:23 |
| lcuk | b-man17, just stop using Python 3 ;) | 03:24 |
| b-man17 | lol | 03:24 |
| * b-man17 is using python2.5 | 03:24 | |
| b-man17 | in esbox | 03:24 |
| lcuk | so whats up then | 03:24 |
| b-man17 | that´s what i´m trying to figure out :( | 03:25 |
| * b-man17 posts the code on pastebin | 03:25 | |
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| b-man17 | here´s the code: http://pastebin.ca/1683049 | 03:28 |
| b-man17 | and the complete error: http://pastebin.ca/1683052 | 03:29 |
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| mgedmin | b-man17, look here | 03:44 |
| mgedmin | settings, appdir, configdir, target, logfile = PathSetup.define_paths(locally, HOME) | 03:44 |
| mgedmin | while define_paths does | 03:44 |
| mgedmin | return appdir, configdir, logfile, target, settings | 03:45 |
| mgedmin | notice anything different? | 03:45 |
| mgedmin | like the order of variables? | 03:45 |
| mgedmin | don't abuse tuples, create a class | 03:45 |
| b-man17 | ok, thanks :) | 03:45 |
| mikhas | dont abuse classes, create structs ^^ | 03:46 |
| mikhas | ah, python? | 03:46 |
| mikhas | but tuples are what makes python great, especially the return tuples | 03:46 |
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| b-man17 | ohhh!!! it works!!!! thanks again mgedmin! :D | 03:49 |
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| mgedmin | mikhas, yeah, when there's a natural ordering, e.g. (x, y, z) | 03:53 |
| mgedmin | not when you have 5 arbitrary things | 03:53 |
| mgedmin | although named tuples maybe ... | 03:54 |
| mikhas | I see what you mean | 03:54 |
| mikhas | still, I wish other languages had that neat convert-into-tuples-on-return hack | 03:55 |
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| mikhas | "x,y = y,x" <= best swap ever. | 03:56 |
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| mgedmin | python rules | 04:00 |
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| *** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik | 04:04 | |
| GeneralAntilles | ~ping | 04:05 |
| infobot | ~pong | 04:05 |
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| pupnik | N810's slightly larger screen is "aah" after hours on N900 | 04:06 |
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| pupnik | i would love to soÃmeday see a documentary on how n810 was designed and built | 04:07 |
| pupnik | the metal case feels soo classic | 04:07 |
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| tadthebuilder | hey all, im out of the loop, im reading rumors that seem to indicate mer may be dying | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | From whom and where? | 04:11 |
| tadthebuilder | well | 04:11 |
| tadthebuilder | maybe not dying but their seems to be a general doubt tmo | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pfft | 04:11 |
| tadthebuilder | that it will ever be usable for day to day operations | 04:11 |
| tadthebuilder | ive been gone for along time | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | tmo can go die in a fire. | 04:12 |
| tadthebuilder | so didnt know if something has happened | 04:12 |
| tadthebuilder | or if people are just impatient | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bunch of irrational fools over there. | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Impatient. | 04:12 |
| tadthebuilder | ah okay | 04:12 |
| tadthebuilder | ill wait :) | 04:12 |
| tadthebuilder | so tmo is irrational fools but mamo on freenode is good haha | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not actually reading anything and cherry-picking quotes are favorite pasttimes over there. ;) | 04:13 |
| tadthebuilder | ah, i might be a little guilty | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Remember, Nokia just created a paid position to support Mer and its mission. ;) | 04:13 |
| tadthebuilder | i did not know that | 04:13 |
| tadthebuilder | that is news to me | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, Stskeeps is distmaster now. | 04:13 |
| tadthebuilder | havent really been on internet for a month... | 04:13 |
| tadthebuilder | ah well thats cool and exciting | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Working for maemo.org | 04:13 |
| tadthebuilder | im looking forward to what comes out | 04:14 |
| tadthebuilder | I figured that you would be here and know | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | I helped run a Mer booth at the Florida Linux Show in Orlando last month with andrewfblack. | 04:14 |
| tadthebuilder | what was up | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, no, not dying. ;) | 04:14 |
| tadthebuilder | yay!! | 04:14 |
| tadthebuilder | I wonder if there is anyway I could help mer with my lack of technical skill... | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Instantly converted a half-dozen Android hackers to Maemo when I showed them the N900. | 04:14 |
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| tadthebuilder | lucky person having one | 04:15 |
| mikhas | GA, gj! | 04:15 |
| tadthebuilder | it wasnt GA, it was the n900 | 04:16 |
| tadthebuilder | (no offence) | 04:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, I'm an affable and exciting individual! | 04:16 |
| tadthebuilder | still i think the n900 did most of the work | 04:17 |
| mikhas | yeah, I guess you could convert android devs if you showed them the powers of an abacus ... | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wait, maybe I mean laughable. . . . | 04:17 |
| tadthebuilder | favourite discussion on tmo | 04:19 |
| tadthebuilder | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34616&page=3 | 04:19 |
| mikhas | should I risk to click? | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | tadthebuilder, well, I warmed 'em up with a talk about relative platform merits (X, real toolkits, real libc, open governance, public bug tracker, etc.) then I showed 'em the N900 later. :P | 04:19 |
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| tadthebuilder | ah okay | 04:19 |
| tadthebuilder | knowledge is helpful too | 04:19 |
| tadthebuilder | From what I have read around I believe the basic, original version, of the Atom is still about twice as powerful as the N900 CPU. | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it also uses infinite more power at idle. ;) | 04:20 |
| tadthebuilder | it was a quote | 04:20 |
| tadthebuilder | i thought thats only true | 04:20 |
| tadthebuilder | if you compare megahertz | 04:20 |
| tadthebuilder | but not if you compare actual usage | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | It depends on the task. | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | But for most things that's basically correct | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Power usage is the metric that really matters in mobile devices, though. | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | true | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | I want my device to not kill my batter | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | y | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | I have a lapto | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | when new | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | The OMAP3 uses practically zero power at idle, the Atom uses nearly the same amount at idle as active. | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | it got about an hour of battery life | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | when new | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | now 15 minutes | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | worst purchase ever | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | big difference in power consumption | 04:21 |
| tadthebuilder | I want an arm laptop! | 04:21 |
| mikhas | have fun compiling, lol | 04:22 |
| tadthebuilder | as long as it can run firefox and open office... | 04:22 |
| luke-jr | Firefox and OpenOffice suck :p | 04:22 |
| tadthebuilder | meh | 04:22 |
| tadthebuilder | its what i use | 04:22 |
| tadthebuilder | too lazy to check new stuff | 04:22 |
| tadthebuilder | too pour to pay ms or opera money | 04:22 |
| tadthebuilder | poor* | 04:22 |
| luke-jr | Konqueror is older than Firefox | 04:22 |
| tadthebuilder | eye | 04:22 |
| tadthebuilder | but im a windows convert | 04:23 |
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| tadthebuilder | so i was using firefox before I switched to linux | 04:23 |
| tadthebuilder | and gmail and google docs and such dont seem to work right in conqueror | 04:23 |
| tadthebuilder | is there a better open source office suite? | 04:23 |
| mikhas | tbh, I'd buy MS Office in an instant if it would run natively on linux | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | KOffice? Honestly, I just use a plain old text editor | 04:24 |
| tadthebuilder | i actually like open office better than ms office | 04:24 |
| luke-jr | tadthebuilder: that's because Google can't code for crap | 04:24 |
| tadthebuilder | oh | 04:24 |
| mikhas | wierd | 04:24 |
| tadthebuilder | i had this arguement with you before.. | 04:24 |
| tadthebuilder | and you went on a rant about how google cant code | 04:24 |
| tadthebuilder | it was fun | 04:24 |
| mikhas | ooffice is inferior to ms office in so many ways ... | 04:24 |
| tadthebuilder | ooffice does everything ineed | 04:24 |
| tadthebuilder | ed | 04:24 |
| tadthebuilder | through college, and seminary | 04:25 |
| luke-jr | Kate does everything I need. | 04:25 |
| tadthebuilder | (seminary | 04:25 |
| luke-jr | does OOffice/MSOffice even support bookmarks? | 04:25 |
| tadthebuilder | = gradschool) | 04:25 |
| tadthebuilder | never worked with more than forty pages | 04:25 |
| tadthebuilder | wait | 04:25 |
| tadthebuilder | 45, never used book marks | 04:25 |
| tadthebuilder | isnt kate just a text editor? | 04:25 |
| luke-jr | yes, exactly :p | 04:25 |
| tadthebuilder | yeah | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | a text editor with syntax highlighting and bookmarks | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | all I need | 04:26 |
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| tadthebuilder | guess you never had to write a footnoted paper in turabian style | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | tadthebuilder: HTML works just fine | 04:26 |
| tadthebuilder | seems like a little more work | 04:26 |
| luke-jr | nah | 04:27 |
| tadthebuilder | i havent used html since i was twelve i think | 04:27 |
| luke-jr | faster to type than hunt for buttons | 04:27 |
| tadthebuilder | keyboard shortcuts... | 04:27 |
| mikhas | and I guess kate has latex plugins, too | 04:27 |
| luke-jr | I think HTML is still faster in the long run :) | 04:27 |
| luke-jr | and again, BOOKMARKS | 04:27 |
| mikhas | well, I like my gedit though it could be improved | 04:27 |
| luke-jr | a MUST HAVE for coding :p | 04:28 |
| mikhas | well yes | 04:28 |
| tadthebuilder | id have to learn html again... | 04:28 |
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| tadthebuilder | i wish i could go to barcelona | 04:29 |
| tadthebuilder | just seems like a pretty city | 04:29 |
| luke-jr | ... | 04:29 |
| tadthebuilder | ux meets code hackfest in barcelona | 04:30 |
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| tadthebuilder | anyone seen the design of the eee-reader with the clamshell book like design | 04:40 |
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| t_s_o | that "edge"? | 04:42 |
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| tadthebuilder | http://gizmodo.com/5354359/asus-eee-reader-could-have-dual-color-touchscreens | 04:44 |
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| * GeneralAntilles is going to Barcelona. | 04:45 | |
| tadthebuilder | you excited general | 04:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 04:45 |
| tadthebuilder | thats exciting | 04:46 |
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| tadthebuilder | im glad you get to go to barcelona since you could make amsterdam | 04:49 |
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| paroneayea | So assuming I'm working on setting up a cross-compiling environment from my debian machine. Would this be considered the best route, or maybe a more manual path?: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation | 05:01 |
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| paroneayea | hm | 05:03 |
| paroneayea | well I guess I'm just cross-compiling, this looks like it sets up some binary garbage I might not need on my machine? | 05:03 |
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| paroneayea | also, what's the reasoning for things installing to /opt/ instead of /usr/? | 05:16 |
| t_s_o | opt will be symlinked to /home/user/opt/ or something like that... | 05:16 |
| * paroneayea looks forward to a day when he can hopefully just install debian on his n900 and still use it as a phone :) | 05:18 | |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, Debian is not optimized for power savings. | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, /usr would be mounted too late in the boot process. | 05:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | paroneayea, there's a thread about it on the maemo-developers archives. | 05:21 |
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| dmj726 | hey zaheerm | 05:29 |
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| pupnik | Till just put Enigma into -devel. Great puzzle game. He is on a roll! | 06:57 |
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| pupnik | heh level 13 not easy | 07:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, just wish he'd quite whining about -testing. | 07:15 |
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| johnx | mornin' all | 07:54 |
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| pupnik | mii | 07:56 |
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| RST38h | moorning all | 08:02 |
| johnx | allo RST38h | 08:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | johnx: i've got a new deb for testing | 08:18 |
| johnx | testing to see if it breaks my device? or testing to see if the strings make sense? | 08:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm running it on my device | 08:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | so let's assume it doesn't kill devices dead :) | 08:20 |
| tigert | yo morning | 08:21 |
| timeless_mbp | [es][en] = parse fail | 08:21 |
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| johnx | allo tigert | 08:22 |
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| johnx | timeless_mbp, yeah, missing a fair number of dependencies. where would I find those zenity and gettext? | 08:23 |
| timeless_mbp | extras-devel | 08:24 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, you really don't have my package installed already? | 08:24 |
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| johnx | nope :) | 08:24 |
| * RST38h moos at wazd | 08:25 | |
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| izzox | Anyone to help me installing gentoo on my n810?? Pliz! | 08:27 |
| izzox | Pliz | 08:27 |
| RST38h | http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6084/eexjm.jpg | 08:27 |
| johnx | izzox, if you can't figure it out yourself, gentoo probably isn't for you ... | 08:27 |
| * RST38h speechless | 08:28 | |
| Stskeeps | izzox: you want to talk to luke-jr | 08:28 |
| izzox | Thx | 08:28 |
| RST38h | izzox: but do reconsider your motivation first :) | 08:28 |
| wazd | heya all | 08:28 |
| luke-jr | ... | 08:28 |
| luke-jr | izzox: it's down atm, but read http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0 | 08:29 |
| izzox | Yeah i read it | 08:29 |
| izzox | But i seemed that it was the guide for the non-bootable | 08:30 |
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| izzox | Can I pm u luke-jr?? | 08:32 |
| paroneayea | so, hildon is based on top of clutter, right? | 08:32 |
| RST38h | hildon-desktop is | 08:32 |
| johnx | libhildon is just on top of gtk+ | 08:32 |
| paroneayea | cool, thanks | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | izzox: it includes bootable | 08:33 |
| izzox | Can i pm u? | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | rather chat here | 08:35 |
| izzox | It's ok i got u. | 08:36 |
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| wazd | RST38h: have you received any details on that nokia event? | 08:54 |
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| kirma | starting to be pretty convinced I get my own n900 on my hands today... it's somewhere in helsinki capital area now :) | 08:57 |
| timeless_mbp | kirma: and where are you? | 08:58 |
| * microlith will be happy if Nokia ships his Monday and gets it on or before Wednesday | 08:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | you'll be happy if Nokia gets it on or before Wednesday? | 08:59 |
| * timeless_mbp warns microlith about the hazards of incomplete and missed backreferences while writing in the third person | 08:59 | |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, you misparsed, actually :) | 08:59 |
| kirma | oh, I'm in helsinki too. | 08:59 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: did not | 08:59 |
| timeless_mbp | he's missing a 'he' | 08:59 |
| johnx | on second glance, I guess you're right | 09:00 |
| microlith | timeless_mbp's parser is on extra strict | 09:00 |
| timeless_mbp | the only way to fly! | 09:00 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm being lax | 09:01 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm willing to treat 'his' as 'his n900 [on]' | 09:01 |
| timeless_mbp | instead of asking microlith how much he paid for a Monday and whether it's transferable :) | 09:01 |
| microlith | mondays don't sell for much, no one likes them | 09:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok | 09:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | [[=]o]=> "Open lens cover" | 09:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | Should that be "Slide open lens cover" ? | 09:05 |
| microlith | only after someone rips the cover out | 09:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | or "Lens cover closed.\nSlide to open" | 09:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | ? | 09:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | johnx: btw, you were complaining about me deleting files from $HOME[user] | 09:09 |
| timeless_mbp | there are people who want my package to binary hack osso-browser | 09:09 |
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| johnx | timeless_mbp, only if it is marked as Replaces: osso-browser | 09:09 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: since binary hacking is abi specific | 09:10 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd have to be in a dependency | 09:10 |
| timeless_mbp | osso-browser-l10n-fix-armel | 09:10 |
| timeless_mbp | actually wait | 09:10 |
| timeless_mbp | i might be able to do this | 09:10 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 09:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok, how do i find a function in a binary? :) | 09:10 |
| johnx | decompiler? | 09:10 |
| timeless_mbp | is that included in my box? | 09:11 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't even have a debugger! | 09:11 |
| * johnx shrugs | 09:11 | |
| timeless_mbp | uh oh | 09:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run `dpkg --configure -a` to correct the problem. | 09:12 |
| timeless_mbp | so i guess running reboot from inside postinst is a bad idea :) | 09:12 |
| johnx | yeah | 09:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | is there a debian/postdpkg? :) | 09:14 |
| * timeless_mbp puzzles | 09:14 | |
| timeless_mbp | why didn't ham choke on my dpkg --configure -a error? | 09:15 |
| timeless_mbp | ah, running dpkg --configure dpkg to clean up journal | 09:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, can i get the pid of dpkg easily? | 09:22 |
| timeless_mbp | is it in my postinst's parent pid chain? | 09:22 |
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| suihkulokki | sounds like you want to do something very wrong | 09:23 |
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| timeless_mbp | yep :) | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a problem: | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | installing my package can result in the user needing to reboot | 09:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think ham actually has some way to trigger reboots | 09:26 |
| Corsac | hmmh, unconditional reboot? | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i toss up a dialog to confirm | 09:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | the dialog lets you "take your chances" | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | ham/backup don't typically give you a choice | 09:26 |
| Corsac | the kernel has a debconf note for that, but I'm not really sure maemo has a debconf frontend? | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 09:27 |
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| Corsac | what is the ? about? kernel note or debconf? | 09:27 |
| microlith | I'd take a look at the way kernel releaes are packaged up | 09:27 |
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| adeus | at least ubuntu uses the reboot-required script | 09:27 |
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| Corsac | (I meant debian kernel, not maemo kernel, sorry) | 09:27 |
| adeus | notify-reboot-required to be exact | 09:27 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/debian/ | 09:28 |
| timeless_mbp | doesn't seem to have such a thing | 09:28 |
| pwnguin | anyone know of a personal webserver alternative to flickr? | 09:28 |
| adeus | flickr is a personal webserver? | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=notify-reboot-required&find=sysvinit/debian | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | shows we have it in one file | 09:29 |
| pwnguin | no, "personal webserver" is an adjective | 09:29 |
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| pwnguin | as in, flickr, but installable in ubuntu | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | cute | 09:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=notify-reboot-required | 09:30 |
| pwnguin | like gallery without the security time bomb | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | doesn't seem to exist in open | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: so, am i safe in assuming maemo doesn't have a matching thing? | 09:31 |
| adeus | looking at it, the script is just some wakeup thingy for a "reboot" applet | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | you can use mxr.maemo.org to look around | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | adeus: yeah | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not quite sure i really want to write a reboot applet | 09:32 |
| pwnguin | i like the idea of photo sharing, but the 300 picture limit is unfortunate | 09:32 |
| tigert | pwnguin: picasa has bigger quota | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | who has the 300 limit? | 09:32 |
| tigert | but "sharing" photos and "personal webserver" are kinda contradictory | 09:32 |
| pwnguin | tigert: how so? | 09:33 |
| tigert | if you want something like flickr, without all your contacts, it is not the same | 09:33 |
| pwnguin | ah, i dont need social networking | 09:33 |
| tigert | ah | 09:33 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: I guess so :/ | 09:33 |
| tigert | gallery.sf.net then? | 09:33 |
| adeus | ovi share works rather well at least on my 5800 | 09:33 |
| * timeless_mbp uses gallery | 09:33 | |
| tigert | ovi share too | 09:33 |
| Corsac | mhmh the template has been dropped in debian | 09:33 |
| tigert | or picasaweb | 09:33 |
| pwnguin | tigert: im kinda worried about gallery being written in PHP | 09:34 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: 1, 2 or 3? | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | um | 09:34 |
| Corsac | pwnguin: scp + genethumb.sh? | 09:34 |
| tigert | pwnguin: everything is php nowadays | 09:34 |
| tigert | but yeah | 09:34 |
| pwnguin | and everything is insecure these days :P | 09:34 |
| tigert | pwnguin: picasa works | 09:34 |
| tigert | or ovi share | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | 2! | 09:34 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: http://www.mail-archive.com/kernel-svn-changes@lists.alioth.debian.org/msg05026.html was what we had at one point | 09:34 |
| tigert | if you have n900 its easy to push pics to ovi | 09:34 |
| tigert | or just pay the flickr fee like I did :P | 09:34 |
| tigert | its just handy and works | 09:35 |
| pwnguin | i already pay linode | 09:35 |
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| * tigert wonders what is the limit on ovi.com | 09:35 | |
| doc|home | pwnguin: php is fine, it's developers you need to worry about | 09:36 |
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| pwnguin | doc|home: sure. why should i trust gallery developers? | 09:36 |
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| doc|home | pwnguin: that's a whole different question :) | 09:36 |
| Corsac | because they have an historic of success wrt. security? | 09:36 |
| Corsac | no wait. | 09:36 |
| doc|home | pwnguin: but it's open source, you can look at it yourself, modify it, or pay someone to secure it for you if you like. | 09:37 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: thanks | 09:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't really parse that | 09:37 |
| timeless_mbp | it seems to use 'input(...)' | 09:37 |
| tigert | gallery has had its security flaws | 09:37 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd rather trust ovi? | 09:37 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: it uses the debconf system | 09:38 |
| tigert | dunno about how it is been recently | 09:38 |
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| pwnguin | http://code.google.com/p/django-photologue/ | 09:38 |
| timeless_mbp | which can't spell Mexico City correctly? | 09:38 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: its not my own server :) | 09:38 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: but is it your own photos? | 09:38 |
| tigert | flickr is yeah | 09:38 |
| tigert | erm | 09:38 |
| timeless_mbp | look, i'm not defending gallery | 09:38 |
| tigert | yeah | 09:38 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'm not actively attacking ovi | 09:38 |
| Corsac | http://wiki.debian.org/debconf | 09:38 |
| timeless_mbp | although i sure as hell am passively attacking those idiots | 09:38 |
| tigert | I use flickr because it has the critical mass of people | 09:38 |
| tigert | I'd use facebook gallery if it didnt suck | 09:38 |
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| tigert | but its because of the social side | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i mean seriously, how hard is it not to misspell the names of 9 cities? | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | Hlesinki anyone? | 09:39 |
| Corsac | aha | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.flagship.nokia.com/ for people who haven't seen it | 09:39 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: scheuldle contsraints! | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | just read the name of the city south of new york | 09:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | (or due south of chicago) | 09:39 |
| tigert | argh | 09:40 |
| * tigert does not like ubuntu much at the moment | 09:40 | |
| tigert | or adobe | 09:40 |
| tigert | dunno which to blame for the firefox eating 100% cpu the moment I visit a site with flash | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: do you like ovi? :) | 09:41 |
| johnx | tigert, flashblock | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | you could use ns-plugin-wrapper | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and then you could blame it! | 09:41 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: I started to use ovi a bit | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | (the wrapper, which is buggy) | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: i'm sorry :_) | 09:41 |
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| RurouniJones_ | Anyone in the UK got their 900s yet? | 09:41 |
| johnx | if the site still takes 100% of your CPU time after installing flashblock, then by all means blame firefox or the ubuntu firefox packagers... | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, in case people think i'm being unfair | 09:42 |
| tigert | johnx: yeah | 09:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i sent an internal email to the people listed as employees at the mexico city store | 09:42 |
| timeless_mbp | we'll see if they can fix their store's name | 09:42 |
| pwnguin | tigert: are you using the flash beta? | 09:42 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: got gdb? | 09:42 |
| tigert | pwnguin: whatever comes with ubuntu 9.10 | 09:42 |
| paroneayea | http://dustycloud.org/blog/view_post/n900/ | 09:42 |
| timeless_mbp | it's fairly trivial to do basic sampling | 09:42 |
| tigert | upgraded to 9.10 and this started | 09:42 |
| pwnguin | tigert: does it happen on guest sessions? | 09:43 |
| * tigert blames lousy QA | 09:43 | |
| tigert | pwnguin: havent looked that hard yet | 09:43 |
| tigert | good point | 09:43 |
| pwnguin | guest session is a trivial test platform ;) | 09:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | paroneayea: thanks for the url | 09:44 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: ovi has qa? | 09:44 |
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| pwnguin | tigert: ubuntu | 09:44 |
| timeless_mbp | afaict the esMX team does absolutely ZERO qa | 09:44 |
| pwnguin | doh | 09:44 |
| timeless_mbp | since this is the second big botch i've found for their site | 09:44 |
| pwnguin | timeless_mbp: he's referring to ubuntu's QA | 09:44 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 09:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | bah, getting flash right is hard | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: you should know that :) | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | also, it's not like you have many choices | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | usually 99% of all versions available are exploitable | 09:45 |
| pwnguin | i think gnash plays youtube now | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | which would *hopefully* exclude them from consideration | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | (although Nokia management doesn't seem to consider exploits to be a reason not to ship a product) | 09:45 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: sometimes it might be wise to not bite the hand that feeds you all the time :) | 09:46 |
| pwnguin | consumers are recieving n900s? | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: i'm thoroughly pissed and am considering wanting to not have to touch that hand ever again | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | (although, i think that's finnish weather causing me to bite every hand i see at this point) | 09:47 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: I wouldnt bring those issues to a public channel though | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: i didn't mention my private rant from this morning | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | did you get that in your mailbox? | 09:48 |
| tigert | didnt read mail yet | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | what, your n900 doesn't start grabbing mail at 8am or 9am? | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | tsk | 09:48 |
| tigert | it does | 09:49 |
| tigert | doesnt mean I read it :) | 09:49 |
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| tigert | gaa | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 09:49 |
| tigert | hit ctrl-alt-bs on console on that ubuntu :P | 09:50 |
| tigert | instead of ctrl-alt-fn-F8 | 09:50 |
| pwnguin | http://piwigo.org/ | 09:50 |
| pwnguin | anyone seen that? | 09:50 |
| tigert | which i tried | 09:50 |
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| tigert | fn is next to del | 09:50 |
| pwnguin | doh; http://www.vupen.com/english/advisories/2009/3221 | 09:50 |
| timeless_mbp | do i want to know what oh. | 09:50 |
| timeless_mbp | clever | 09:50 |
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| tigert | but Steve has seen that this is Good(tm) | 09:51 |
| pwnguin | tigert: this is why dontzap defaults are in place | 09:51 |
| timeless_mbp | tigert: eh? | 09:51 |
| tigert | timeless_mbp: mac kbd | 09:51 |
| timeless_mbp | on my mbp i'd need to try to press fn-ctrl-alt-f12(speaker) and miss to get backspace | 09:52 |
| tigert | this is external kb | 09:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't even have a delete | 09:52 |
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| johnx | timeless_mbp, yes you do. it just doesn't send ctrl+h :P | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | you were trying to change vt's? | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: not on my mbp | 09:53 |
| johnx | ctrl+alt+<curosor-left> | 09:53 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, read me the label on the key under 'eject' :P | 09:53 |
| timeless_mbp | my mac usb keyboard has two delete keys | 09:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | johnx: "<-" | 09:54 |
| johnx | uh huh. what nationality is the keyboard? | 09:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | fi | 09:54 |
| johnx | madness | 09:54 |
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| timeless_mbp | this might be why nokians think that the <- icon makes sense to people :) | 09:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.whatlaptop.co.uk/files/whatlaptop/macbook02.jpg | 09:55 |
| timeless_mbp | roughly | 09:55 |
| timeless_mbp | right shape, different labels for keys east of P/L and west of "<-D" | 09:55 |
| johnx | that's an even smaller enter key than the JP keyboard layout I think | 09:56 |
| pupnik | heh xmame is faster than expected | 09:56 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.kbcovers.com/servlet/Detail?no=70 ? | 09:56 |
| timeless_mbp | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/MacBookProJISKeyboard-2.jpg/250px-MacBookProJISKeyboard-2.jpg ? | 09:57 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, that's a cover ... :P | 09:57 |
| johnx | one sec | 09:57 |
| timeless_mbp | http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/3906502087_482781e0f7_b.jpg ? | 09:57 |
| timeless_mbp | that last one is nice | 09:58 |
| timeless_mbp | a decent size for the left shift key | 09:58 |
| johnx | let's see... | 09:58 |
| timeless_mbp | you lose a key west of "1" | 09:58 |
| timeless_mbp | and backspace changes a bit | 09:58 |
| timeless_mbp | to add Yen | 09:59 |
| johnx | really cool control key if you could get used to it though | 09:59 |
| timeless_mbp | interesting | 09:59 |
| avs | What would be the easiest way to swap between keyboard layouts in N900? | 09:59 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah control north of south | 09:59 |
| timeless_mbp | avs: most people use the Text Input control panel applet | 09:59 |
| timeless_mbp | either the normal one or ukeyboard (when it isn't broken)'s | 09:59 |
| avs | Yes | 09:59 |
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| avs | I'll rephrase | 10:00 |
| timeless_mbp | space is kinda tiny | 10:00 |
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| pwnguin | whats the buttons on either side of space for? alphabet shifting? | 10:00 |
| pupnik | arg too slllllow for gauntlet 2 | 10:00 |
| pupnik | curse you pulse audio! | 10:00 |
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| johnx | timeless_mbp, exactly | 10:00 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: compose keys? | 10:01 |
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| pupnik | what? | 10:01 |
| tigert | hrm | 10:01 |
| pwnguin | timeless_mbp: im not sure what compose means | 10:01 |
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| tigert | guest session also causes 100% cpu for flash | 10:01 |
| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Japanese | 10:02 |
| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_input_keys | 10:02 |
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| pwnguin | On some computer systems, a compose key is a key which is designated to signal the software to interpret the next keystrokes as a combination in order to produce a character not found on the keyboard. | 10:02 |
| timeless_mbp | probably kanji and conversion | 10:02 |
| johnx | pwnguin, and in the case of the japanese qwerty key layouts, you'd use enter to do that | 10:02 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, those keys are generally for swapping between alphabets. I believe | 10:03 |
| pwnguin | hah! :P | 10:03 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, the left one seems to be conversion | 10:03 |
| johnx | though, I'm used to inputting japanese (badly) on a US qwerty keyboard, so don't take my word as rule :) | 10:03 |
| timeless_mbp | (henkan?) | 10:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | no | 10:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | the left one is alphanumeric (eisu) | 10:04 |
| timeless_mbp | the right one, doesn't seem to be in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_input_keys :( | 10:04 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, the right one is kana | 10:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | so it's conversion | 10:05 |
| timeless_mbp | or does it swap into kana entry mode from english? | 10:06 |
| johnx | it might swap between hiragana and katakana | 10:06 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 10:06 |
| timeless_mbp | yes, that glyph more closely matches | 10:06 |
| johnx | the gana in hiragana is kana, IIRC | 10:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | so yeah, i'll buy that | 10:07 |
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| johnx | where the heck is \ ...? | 10:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | Yen! ;-) | 10:07 |
| timeless_mbp | http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2005/09/17/469941.aspx | 10:08 |
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| johnx | heh...that makes sense then. :) I always thought it was some horrible, common font rendering glitch on the japanese version of windows :) | 10:09 |
| timeless_mbp | it is! | 10:09 |
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| * timeless_mbp has read this article a probably 4-5 times | 10:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | it's definitely worth a read if you've never read it | 10:10 |
| johnx | yeah, just read it | 10:11 |
| timeless_mbp | http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2004/12/14/284838.aspx is also worth a read | 10:11 |
| johnx | hilarious | 10:11 |
| timeless_mbp | if only for the first 3 lines of dialog | 10:11 |
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| johnx | as for input, I'm pretty sure the newer macs (more accurate maybe?) also support inputting kanji by drawing it directly on the touchpad | 10:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah, i'm pretty sure that works | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, the final line of the conversation (might as well be the punchline) is also great | 10:16 |
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| pwnguin | is japanese unicode sort in a worse state of affairs? | 10:19 |
| pwnguin | or simply not exist? | 10:19 |
| pwnguin | im too ignorant to get the punch | 10:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | from the comments, it seems to be just as bad | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | and hopefully just as removed | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | pwnguin: the punch is having to go through the same embarrassing discussion all over again | 10:21 |
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| suihkulokki | To support this expectation, Japanese and Korean fonts, whenever the default system locale is set to Japanese or Korean, respectively, will display the currency symbol rather than the backslash when U+005c is shown. | 10:23 |
| * suihkulokki goes headdesk | 10:23 | |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: honestly, it's actually softer than nokia stuff | 10:24 |
| timeless_mbp | {compose ~n} on n900 or "pm"/"am" on n900 | 10:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2004/12/14/284838.aspx#330179 -- think about Norman's wife! | 10:24 |
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| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: I think the problem of the "compose" or "dead key" chars in the symbol table is that there is no visible indication that the third row is different from the others | 10:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not talking about the input method | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm talking about the font rendering glyph | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | the input method seems like something they're willing to fix | 10:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | whereas the glyph is from Nokia-On-High and Must Not Be Changed | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: you do binary hacking once in a while, right? | 10:28 |
| ShadowJK | hm? | 10:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | can you look into a binary hack for me? | 10:28 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how to search for {compose ~n} | 10:29 | |
| ShadowJK | I wish there was a place to go "argh" about s60 :) | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | they do | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | they're like tmo :) | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | write once, read never | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | they're probably called fnc | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: bug 5029 | 10:30 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5029 "ñ" (n with tilde) character slightly cut off in default font | 10:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1346 for people too lazy to click twice | 10:30 |
| hrw | morning | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp | the am/pm variant is from the duplicate and looks like this: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1506 | 10:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: anyway, binary hacking | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp | can you help me? | 10:32 |
| * ShadowJK can't tell what's wrong with either.. | 10:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: you're blind | 10:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: find 'Signo positivo' | 10:32 |
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| comawhite | I'm trying to install the SDK. But I get an error "Cannot connect to X server" when running as root | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | please let me know when you've foudn it | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | comawhite: and DISPLAY is unset? | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp | have you considered setting it? | 10:33 |
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| ShadowJK | first hit on google: "Matemáticas. Más (+) signo de la suma." ? | 10:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: in the picture: https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1346 | 10:34 |
| comawhite | timeless_mbp, in root yes, but not user | 10:34 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 10:34 | |
| ShadowJK | oh :) | 10:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | please let me know when you've found it | 10:35 |
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| comawhite | sorry | 10:35 |
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| johnx | comawhite, did that work? | 10:35 |
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| comawhite | I probably did it wrong export DISPLAY=:0.0 | 10:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | the sdk runs on :2.0 if you followed the directions | 10:38 |
| timeless_mbp | although you probably want to understand the directions | 10:38 |
| comawhite | okay sorry | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | so... a short explanation of x11 | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | x11 has a concept of 'displays' | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | if you're using a Unix, you're likely to be looking at one | 10:39 |
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| comawhite | yeah I'm on OpenSuse 11.2 | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | by tradition, the one managing the screen you see is :0 | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | the .0 part isn't worth discussing for now, but it does have a meaning (you can look it up later) | 10:40 |
| RST38h | And no, 11.2 is not your X11 screen number | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | :1 would be the first additional display | 10:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | my guess is that the sdk people assumed people were likely to potentially be using that display | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | so they chose to use the next logical one, namely :2 | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | effectively x11 listens to a specific port | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | Xbase + Displaynumber | 10:40 |
| timeless_mbp | Xbase=6000 | 10:41 |
| timeless_mbp | so :2 is really :6002 | 10:41 |
| timeless_mbp | but that's not really too interesting | 10:41 |
| * alterego is interested .. | 10:41 | |
| timeless_mbp | from memory, x11 forwarding starts with :10 | 10:41 |
| timeless_mbp | because it is trying to avoid colliding with :1..:9 | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | ...x11 forwarding over ssh... | 10:42 |
| comawhite | well as normal user $DISPLAY=:0.0 | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | and that's your normal screen | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | but the sdk runs its own xserver | 10:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | which draws things into its constrained space | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | 800x480x16alpha ? | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | with its own potential dpi | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | and with its own constraints | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | (potentially a distinct clipboard, no ability to drag in / out of that surface) | 10:43 |
| * ali1234 sighs | 10:43 | |
| timeless_mbp | now, typically you'll run the sdk x11 server display such that it paints into your default display (:0) | 10:43 |
| ali1234 | thanks for that wonderful but useless explanation of how X11 works | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but that isn't a requirement ... if you happened to have another display somewhere else | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway... | 10:44 |
| ali1234 | now i will attempt to actually help this guy | 10:44 |
| alterego | Yeah, I run my Xephyr through ssh | 10:44 |
| ali1234 | comawhite: are you attempting to run the GUI installer? | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | each xserver has its own access control rules, and a magic cookie | 10:44 |
| comawhite | correct | 10:44 |
| ali1234 | comawhite: and how did you aquire root access to do so? with su? sudo? | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | fakeroot? :) | 10:45 |
| comawhite | su, sudo su -, sudo | 10:45 |
| comawhite | yeah I have root access | 10:45 |
| comawhite | I never had to set a root display before, that's why I feel like a dumbarse :P | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, sorry, i mis-parsed the original "cannot install sdk" | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | for some reason i assumed you meant "cannot use the sdk" | 10:46 |
| timeless_mbp | your original statement was entirely correct | 10:46 |
| ali1234 | well, here's the amazing thing: neither sudo nor su actually configure X permissions properly, and as such, using them to run GUI programs is actually dangerous | 10:46 |
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| alterego | Anyone know of any Nokia discount codes anywhere? | 10:46 |
| alterego | Like the twitter one that expired last month? | 10:47 |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: give me 1000EUR, i'll find you an n900 and arrange shipping :) | 10:47 |
| ali1234 | comawhite: try running, as your regular user, "gksudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py" | 10:47 |
| timeless_mbp | probably not such a good discount, but hey :) | 10:47 |
| alterego | Heh | 10:47 |
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| ali1234 | comawhite: or, if you're using kde, "ksudo ..." | 10:48 |
| ali1234 | or is it kdesudo | 10:48 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp: how fast will 1000e get me a n900? :-) | 10:48 |
| comawhite | comawhite@linux-yy63:~/Download> sudo ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py | 10:48 |
| comawhite | : cannot connect to X server | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: hrm, i'm thinking next day within europe | 10:48 |
| ali1234 | comawhite: "gksudo" | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll walk down to the nokia flagship store here | 10:48 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | and then personally walk it to a DHL | 10:48 |
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| ShadowJK | I thought flagship store started selling on 27th | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | dunno | 10:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i know that the flagship here had a *huge* n900 in one of the windows | 10:49 |
| timeless_mbp | i need to walk there and take photos of it | 10:49 |
| alterego | I could phone up the London store, see if they'll reserve me one and notify me when it appears, then get a train to London and buy it. | 10:49 |
| alterego | I like that idea. | 10:49 |
| ShadowJK | and that nokia online shop fi, which seems somewhat related to the flagship store, ran out of N900s and couldn't fill all preorders | 10:49 |
| Lynoure | huge n900 does not sound like a win :) | 10:49 |
| timeless_mbp | there was a blog post earlier today indicating the chicago store is selling them | 10:49 |
| comawhite | ali1234, I don't have gksudo | 10:49 |
| SpeedEvil | A working one with a 35" monitor would be so funny. | 10:49 |
| ali1234 | comawhite: do you use kde or gnome or something else? | 10:49 |
| timeless_mbp | ali1234: personally i'd use ssh root@localhost :) | 10:49 |
| comawhite | KDE4 | 10:49 |
| timeless_mbp | (with x11 forwarding...) | 10:49 |
| ali1234 | timeless_mbp: you mean ssh -X of course, and you shouldnt allow root login on ssh | 10:50 |
| timeless_mbp | ali1234: key'd login ;-) | 10:50 |
| *** bleader_ is now known as bleader | 10:50 | |
| ali1234 | comawhite: ok then use "kdesu" | 10:50 |
| alterego | Back into the wonderful world of Direct Show filters and windows :( | 10:50 |
| * alterego vomits | 10:50 | |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: oh wow | 10:50 |
| comawhite | ali1234, okay did that, and it executed but nothing is happening | 10:50 |
| ali1234 | comawhite: "kdesu ./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py" | 10:50 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp: the deterrents clearly have not worked ;) | 10:51 |
| comawhite | ali1234, same thing, nothing happened after executing | 10:52 |
| comawhite | lol | 10:52 |
| comawhite | Sorry about this problem :( | 10:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: we try to pen up demand | 10:52 |
| timeless_mbp | clearly we succeeded :) | 10:52 |
| alterego | comawhite: can you pastbin.org the output of 'sudo env' | 10:52 |
| comawhite | alterego, http://pastebin.ca/1683430 | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | ali1234: you could give up and void permissions or steal a cookie ;-) | 10:54 |
| * timeless_mbp is not beyond stealing cookies | 10:54 | |
| ali1234 | timeless_mbp: there is obviously some other problem at work here, X permissions are fixed by kdesu | 10:54 |
| timeless_mbp | ali1234: there you go trying to fix problems | 10:55 |
| timeless_mbp | where's the fun in that? :) | 10:55 |
| timeless_mbp | but yeah, i'm interested in learning what the root problem is | 10:55 |
| timeless_mbp | it sounds interesting | 10:55 |
| ali1234 | i'm guessing it's either opensuse badness or the gui installer is broken in an unusual way | 10:55 |
| alterego | Does it use Qt? | 10:56 |
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| comawhite | PyQt4 | 10:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | ali1234: a nokia installer that's broken? it can't be! say it ain't so! | 10:59 |
| timeless_mbp | oh err, nevermind. if i had a dollar each time it was, i'd be rich | 11:00 |
| ShadowJK | computers suck :/ | 11:00 |
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| ShadowJK | or computing | 11:00 |
| ali1234 | well, i don't see any way that the script can exit without any output | 11:00 |
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| comawhite | haha lookie what I found xP | 11:00 |
| comawhite | http://en.opensuse.org/Maemo#Running_the_SDK | 11:00 |
| comawhite | seems to be outdate as it talks about 4 | 11:01 |
| alterego | comawhite: the fundamentals are the same. | 11:01 |
| comawhite | where here's 5: http://en.opensuse.org/Maemo5 | 11:01 |
| alterego | Hahah, nice. | 11:02 |
| comawhite | xP | 11:02 |
| ali1234 | awesome, this installer does exactly the same for me: run it, it quits with no output | 11:02 |
| comawhite | mhmm | 11:02 |
| ali1234 | although i do already have the SDK installed | 11:03 |
| comawhite | crazy shit | 11:03 |
| ali1234 | ah | 11:03 |
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| ali1234 | comawhite: did you do: 'chmod a+x maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py' | 11:04 |
| ali1234 | if not, do it, run it with kdesu again | 11:04 |
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| comawhite | no output | 11:06 |
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| comawhite | brb in 10 minutes | 11:06 |
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| comawhite | im back | 11:15 |
| ali1234 | well... | 11:18 |
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| comawhite | ali1234, I got it working | 11:22 |
| comawhite | export DISPLAY=:0 | 11:22 |
| ali1234 | what did you do? | 11:22 |
| comawhite | xD | 11:22 |
| ali1234 | lol | 11:23 |
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| comawhite | ali1234, I did :2 but got issues :S | 11:23 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 11:23 |
| ali1234 | that stuff is for *after* yu have got the SDK installed | 11:23 |
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| comawhite | ah | 11:24 |
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| comawhite | E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture. | 11:27 |
| comawhite | lol | 11:27 |
| johnx | wow, today is really not your lucky day :) | 11:27 |
| comawhite | nope xP | 11:27 |
| comawhite | do I need scratchbox before the installer? | 11:27 |
| comawhite | no, because the gui installer has it with it | 11:29 |
| ali1234 | the installer... installs it | 11:29 |
| comawhite | yeah just read it | 11:29 |
| ali1234 | it's supposed to work for 64 bit but perhaps that is dependent on distribution | 11:30 |
| ali1234 | consider using the virtual machine image | 11:31 |
| comawhite | yeah | 11:32 |
| comawhite | "Using SDK on x86_64 is not supported, but you can install it anyways" | 11:32 |
| jjo | it runs fine on 64-bit machines | 11:33 |
| jjo | it's just the there is no 64-bit version of scratchbox | 11:34 |
| comawhite | okay good :) | 11:34 |
| zaheerm | it works on my fedora x86_64 machine | 11:34 |
| comawhite | yeah I'll have to manually install it | 11:34 |
| jjo | but we haven't run into any problems running the 32-bit on 64-bit machines | 11:34 |
| comawhite | yeah there shouldn't be issues running 32bit apps on 64bi | 11:35 |
| comawhite | 64bit* | 11:35 |
| jjo | the sb-installer has a switch for that | 11:35 |
| * comawhite cries because he wants a n900 | 11:36 | |
| comawhite | :P | 11:36 |
| comawhite | im installing the sdk so I can have the emulator to port my app to the thing | 11:36 |
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| mae-sko | hi | 11:40 |
| comawhite | hallo | 11:40 |
| mae-sko | From where can i install gtk.glade library for python? so that import gtk.glade works | 11:41 |
| comawhite | no idea | 11:41 |
| mae-sko | I'm totally novice to maemo and apt-get tool | 11:41 |
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| comawhite | shouldn't it be in the sdk? | 11:41 |
| mae-sko | i have "fremantle" and it is not | 11:42 |
| ali1234 | the sdk has extra stuff you can install with apt-get | 11:42 |
| mae-sko | If i just could know how to search .deb packages.. | 11:42 |
| comawhite | aptitude? | 11:42 |
| ali1234 | mae-sko: apt-cache search <pattern> | 11:42 |
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| ali1234 | in this case you probably want to apt-get install python-glade2 | 11:42 |
| mae-sko | heey.. I think Im near solution.. | 11:43 |
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| mae-sko | So the solution was to install python-glade2 not python.glade.. One step forward. Thanks!! | 11:46 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 11:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | the n900 doesn't support tinyarro.ws | 11:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | Rather silly site. | 11:53 |
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| comawhite | E: Downloaded armel rootstrap file failed integrity test. | 11:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | right so um | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm back to needing a way to hunt for pids | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | in postinst, who's my parent pid? | 12:03 |
| timeless_mbp | dpkg? | 12:03 |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp: $PPID ? | 12:04 |
| timeless_mbp | well $PPID would *tell me* who my parent is | 12:04 |
| timeless_mbp | but is dpkg my parent? | 12:04 |
| timeless_mbp | slight distinction | 12:04 |
| adeus | $PPID | 12:05 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: I prefer the ebay short URL service. | 12:05 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: you mean in a generic way? | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: you obviously didn't get an email asking about IDN support | 12:05 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: Set $5 bids on all the 4 letter domains. | 12:05 |
| ali1234 | timeless_mbp: cat /proc/$PPID/status | grep Name | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | ali1234: yeah, i'm going to do something like that | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i need to figure out if dpkg and ham are my parents | 12:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | but it occurs to me that ham isn't going to be my parent | 12:06 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: you want to make sure you're run by dpkg and nothing else? | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | because it probably uses apt-worker | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: no | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i want to find the process the user picked to install me and wait for it to die | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | and then i want to annoy the user | 12:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | i haven't figured out my definition of that yet | 12:06 |
| Corsac | can't you use a trigger? | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | it might be apt or apt-worker | 12:07 |
| Corsac | which will run after dpkg work | 12:07 |
| Corsac | (http://www.dpkg.org/dpkg/Triggers) | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | trigger sounds nice | 12:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | yep, reading | 12:07 |
| Corsac | though you might not control precisely when it's run, which might not be ok for you | 12:07 |
| convulted | Hey all -- is extras-devel down? I get the "no hash entry in release file" error when I try to update the app manager | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, not very helpful | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | convulted: it's periodically (albeit chaotically) down | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | try again in 5mins is my general rule of thumb | 12:08 |
| convulted | timeless_mbp: thanks :) | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | (and repeat every 5mins until it changes its mind) | 12:08 |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp: you want to do the reboot thing, not just only ask the user to do it? | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | i want to ask the user | 12:08 |
| papo | hello | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | but i don't want to reboot until dpkg finishes | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | a trigger sounds right | 12:08 |
| timeless_mbp | can i trigger any path/app i like? | 12:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | Corsac: don't suppose you know if dpkg-trigger is actually supported? :) | 12:09 |
| Corsac | yeah, you declare in your trigger which path you're interested in, and when that path is touched, you'll be run eventually | 12:09 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: it's supported since lenny, not sure about the dpkg version in fremantle | 12:10 |
| papo | on amazon, the U.S. version of the N900 is available as pre-oder. I'm wondering how the U.S. versions differs from other versions and what other versions exist | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: the keyboard sucks less | 12:10 |
| SpeedEvil | papo: hardware - barring keyb - is identical | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | the product costs less | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | you get much more map data for your money | 12:10 |
| Corsac | 1.14.17 is the first trigger version | 12:10 |
| papo | I found a couple of forum posts on that, but the information there is quite inconclusive | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | (the map data sucks more, so you're getting more bad data) | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: and you get a power adapter which fits into your wall | 12:11 |
| SpeedEvil | TIGER has a lot to answer for. | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | that's about all of the differences | 12:11 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: but I don't know how much dpkg is modified in fremantle, too | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: oh, the manual/warranty text is likely to be longer and have more legalese :) | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | so you're probably paying for a couple of extra dead trees | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: understood | 12:11 |
| SpeedEvil | And in .ch you will have a better returns policy, and maybe warranty | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | you're describing upstream, it's better than nothing | 12:11 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 12:11 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: well the one on amazon is cheaper than what I'd pay for a pre-order in my country. And I'd be sure to have a keyboard with 4 cursor keys | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: oh, in the us there are 2 nokia flagship stores | 12:12 |
| ali1234 | timeless_mbp: what app is this for? | 12:12 |
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| Corsac | papo: if you're not in the us, us amazon might not want to ship it to you | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: oh, you're not in the .us | 12:12 |
| ali1234 | s/app/package/ | 12:12 |
| infobot | ali1234 meant: timeless_mbp: what package is this for? | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | officially someone is going to want you to pay an input tax | 12:12 |
| timeless_mbp | ali1234: enus1 | 12:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | timeless.justdave.net/maemo/os2009repo/ | 12:12 |
| papo | Corsac: according to their website, they would ship it | 12:12 |
| Corsac | oh? | 12:13 |
| Corsac | where are you located? | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | => ali1234 (and optionally Corsac ) | 12:13 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: Switzerland. But I'm not sure about the input tax, you're right | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | the reboot bits aren't included yet since they work differently | 12:13 |
| johnx | and you're ok with a plain qwerty keyboard? | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: a high level nokia guy was famously arrested for violating import/export laws in .ch | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: likely | 12:13 |
| johnx | only other thing to think about is wifi channels, but I think that's set by software | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | the swiss seem to be fairly tolerant | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: it is set by software | 12:14 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: Polanski is not a nokia guy | 12:14 |
| Corsac | papo: btw, it'll have less wireless chans available | 12:14 |
| papo | Corsac: hm good point | 12:14 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 12:14 | |
| johnx | but those channels are just a software setting anyways. easy to "fix" once you get it ;) | 12:14 |
| convulted | Can anyone point me to a changelog (of sorts) between the .42-2 N900 firmware and the current .42-11? | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: eh? we don't actually make different hardware | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | the only differences are the keymat and the charger | 12:15 |
| papo | johnx: yes I write 7bit clean even in German. Nobody can tell me whether the cursor keys are going to be reduced if I buy it here, so I'm very unsure about what to do | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | the rest is packaging | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: the german layout should have only 2 arrow keys | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | because you want your SS key | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | and don't ask me what other key you pay for | 12:15 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: Hm that's what I'm afraid of. Though I've seen some picture with a QWERTZ layout and 4 cursor keys | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i could be wrong, but i was pretty sure | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | lemme check | 12:16 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: yeah but I think you may have a regulation daemon or something which should prevent wireless to go after 11 | 12:16 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: We're probably going to want the umlaut keys | 12:16 |
| papo | and yes, the ß | 12:16 |
| SpeedEvil | The key layout - the actual layout - no thte labels - don't change? | 12:16 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp: though maybe it's only software | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: it figures out which area you're in | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | (there's syslog or similar spam mentioning detection/change) | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | remember, i've been to the us w/ my n900s :) | 12:16 |
| Corsac | :) | 12:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | well, i took 2, only one returned w/ me, the other decided to go to Germany first | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | :a:o:u | 12:17 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: actually it's rather tricky to find out what will be shipped in Germany and even harder for Swotzerland | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | are your three wonderful keys | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | that's what you get, and the price you pay is losing up/down arrows | 12:17 |
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| timeless_mbp | papo: Italian, German or French? :) | 12:18 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: Zurich, German part | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm assuming your in eastern .ch instead of western | 12:18 |
| Corsac | (was there pictures of the french keyboard?) | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: yep | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | Corsac: do you want pictures or info? | 12:18 |
| Corsac | just to see the layout | 12:18 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: Swiss orthography does not include the 'SS'-thing, but Nokia is probably not going to make a special layout for 7 million people | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | besides the keymaps are probably open source on mxr.maemo.org/fremantle | 12:18 |
| tbf | i clearly prefer pressing fn+sym and tapping ¨ to get umlauts, over loosing arrow keys | 12:19 |
| Corsac | yeah but the hardware keyboard is not in mxr I guess? | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, i have no idea how to enter SS | 12:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | Corsac: the mapping probably is | 12:19 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9900/n900de.png this is a layout I'd buy | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a vkb file | 12:19 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: that's qwertz but with 4 cursor keys | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: that's en | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | you can buy it from .us, .uk, .nl | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | (roughly) | 12:20 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: sure? There's a Z in the top row | 12:20 |
| papo | instead of a Y | 12:20 |
| johnx | whoa | 12:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | weird | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | wtf | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | that's broken | 12:20 |
| convulted | timeless_mbp: do you know anyone I can buzz about the extras-devel issue? | 12:20 |
| johnx | is that a photoshop? | 12:20 |
| RST38h | "Customers of online tat bazaar eBay were on Friday denied the chance to bid for bits of former Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, when the site swiftly pulled a listing for samples of his blood and brain." | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | convulted: it's blogged | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | johnx: it has to be | 12:20 |
| papo | johnx: that's my concern. I have no information about how reliable this picture is | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: it doesn't exist | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm using the keymap now | 12:21 |
| papo | well awesome then | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | the :'s i mentioned are live | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | unless ukeyboard ****d me | 12:21 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: i've asked mr. input methods about ß | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | which is possible, but unlikely | 12:21 |
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| johnx | in the most legitimate case it was some kind of one off that someone tested at some point | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | so | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | speaking from history | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | we were told that *none* of the localized keyboards would have 4 arrow keys | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and i've been trying to tell devs that for a number of months | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | that little i remember | 12:22 |
| papo | hm ok that's not cool... so I definitely have to buy one from uk, us or some other place with 4 arrow keys... I never use umlauts but I imagine myself using the arrows quite a lot | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: i could be wrong | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i just highly doubt it :) | 12:23 |
| convulted | timeless_mbp: hmmm; I only got the irc logs when I googled it | 12:23 |
| papo | hm ok | 12:23 |
| sp3000 | well | 12:23 |
| sp3000 | xkb_symbols "pl" { | 12:23 |
| sp3000 | include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(english_base)" | 12:23 |
| sp3000 | include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(arrows_4btns)" | 12:23 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: any chances to get even more reliable information on that? (Don't get me wrong, this is the most reliable statement I got so far, so thank you for that) | 12:23 |
| papo | it's just that this is rather important to me | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: any internal could read the official spec | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't want to | 12:24 |
| sp3000 | xkb_symbols "de" { | 12:24 |
| sp3000 | include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(english_base)" | 12:24 |
| sp3000 | include "nokia_vndr/rx-51(arrows_2btns)" | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone with an n900 can swap to german | 12:24 |
| tbf | papo: timeless_mbp: official german keyboard layout has up/down on fn+left/right, separate keys for ä, ö, ü at english up, dot and comma | 12:24 |
| papo | tbf: of, thank you | 12:25 |
| tbf | papo: timeless_mbp: ß on german layout is reached via fn+ü | 12:25 |
| papo | ok I mean | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i thought it was hidden in an fn | 12:25 |
| papo | so the U.S. version it is, then | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but i didn't feel like fishing for it | 12:25 |
| papo | tbf: and just to be sure, there is no Swiss version, or is it? | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: there isn't | 12:25 |
| tbf | papo: i can check | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | what's the point | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | swiss german, swiss italian, swiss french? | 12:26 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: they do it for keyboards. The point is that I'd have to investigate into the Swiss layout instead of the German one to get answers to my question | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | there's neither a localization nor a region for switzerland | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: it isn't in my n900's set | 12:26 |
| tbf | papo: no, there is no separate swiss layout as far as i can see | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm running a slightly out of date version, but we wouldn't have added it | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, your market isn't big enough | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | and trust me, our testing would fail, you wouldn't want it anyway :) | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | germany will get better testing | 12:27 |
| papo | timeless_mbp: yes that's what I thought. However, there are *ordinary* keyboards with a distinct layout for de_ch and fr_ch (and probably it_ch even) | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah | 12:27 |
| papo | tbf: ok great, then I'm placing my order, thank you :) | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | but given that SS is already hidden on an fn- | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it's not a big deal | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure what character you've lost by doing that | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | you can always replace the keyboard layouts | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | ukeyboard (often broken, but..) does that | 12:28 |
| papo | yeah but I don't feel very comfortable with using a keyboard with a different layout. US on a US keyboard is fine and Swiss on a Swiss keyboard as well, but I get utterly confused if the keyboard has different labels than what is actually appearing on the screen | 12:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, i probably overstepped | 12:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | my statements only apply to the n900 as it should be in stores today | 12:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | hypothetically an n900 that might be sold with some future software version might be different | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | a case that won't happen but would work for example: | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | the n900 today doesn't offer Brazilian Portuguese | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | hypothetically we could have updated software which includes it | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | (we almost certainly won't see lawsuit over 'ovi', but it works as a hypothetical) | 12:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | s/won't see/won't -- see/ | 12:32 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: (we almost certainly won't -- see lawsuit over 'ovi', but it works as a hypothetical) | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, purchasing a phone is a big decision | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | it's ~720USD or 900USD (if you prefer to pay in EUR) | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | if you need a phone _now_ and think the n900 is the phone for you, then waiting doesn't make sense | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | if you like your current phone and are willing to let others shake out the bugs while you suffer with your older phone, that's your choice :) | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | (the 720USD is 650USD list price + tax v. 600 EUR at a 1.5USD : 1EUR exchange, vat assumed, shipping not included) | 12:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/xkeyboard-config/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | is the official answer for the keymap | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, i'm not very good at browsing through that tree | 12:36 |
| convulted | timeless_mbp: do you know if there is something I can do to be able to use extras-devel, or should I just wait? | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | i knew it was there, and i was staring at the symbols/ directory | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | convulted: so, the problem afaiu is that the autobuilder randomly corrupts the repo db | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | and a future autobuilder build can fix it | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | my assumption has been that such things happen periodically | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i could be wrong | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | you should be able to do work manually if you don't mind the extra work | 12:37 |
| convulted | timeless_mbp: ah ok, so waiting is the answer :S ... back to work then :) | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | it depends on how desperate you are | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i could be wrong, ... but i don't think so (audio:monk) | 12:38 |
| convulted | not too much, actually; i'd just like to see whether my package works (first package...) | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | did you build it locally or only w/ the builder? | 12:38 |
| convulted | i used py2deb (yes, yes, python) and submitted it to the builder | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | papo: polanski is the director | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm talking about some nokian who did something stupid many years ago | 12:39 |
| convulted | interestingly, i got no email from the autobuilder saying the build succeeded, but it says build successful on the web | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | it's in nokia lore | 12:39 |
| convulted | so I might have broken it :) | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 12:40 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 12:40 | |
| timeless_mbp | i can't find the name of that guy | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki / tbf / sp3000 : pointers? :) | 12:40 |
| Lynoure | timeless_mbp: there has been only one Nokian that did anything stupid? =) | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | in switzerland! that i've heard of ! | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | involving customs. | 12:43 |
| Lynoure | timeless_mbp: and you don't mean the Nokia chick that went ballistic with a gun in 2000 or so? | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | nope, haven't heard about that one | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure this was some high level nokian | 12:43 |
| murrayc | Was that for being called a chick? | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | who bought some very very expensive item in switzerland | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | and then didn't declare it when he went through customs | 12:43 |
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| skrankki | kallasvuo ^^ | 12:46 |
| VDVsx | jeremiah, ping | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olli-Pekka_Kallasvuo#Tax_evasion_conviction | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | skrankki: thanks :) | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | wait, is he the current CEO? | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | oh yeah. opk | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 12:48 |
| timeless_mbp | ("i love this company") | 12:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | Lynoure: see, he's famous :) | 12:49 |
| suihkulokki | Lynoure: you mean sanna sillanpää? | 12:50 |
| timeless_mbp | http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2009/09/23/9898441.aspx | 12:51 |
| timeless_mbp | i like the disclaimer at the bottom of that post :) | 12:51 |
| adeus | only drug dealers and programmers call their customers users | 12:53 |
| alterego | Hahah | 12:54 |
| timeless_mbp | lol | 12:54 |
| _|Nix|_ | Hey! Will extras-devel ever be fixed? I don't want to have to promote every package to extras-testing just to test a real, live-fire upgrade ... | 12:54 |
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| convulted | _|Nix|_: Glad I'm not the only one with the issue... | 12:55 |
| alterego | What's wrong with extras-devel? | 12:55 |
| convulted | alterego: Cannot update the package list on the device ("no hash entry in release file" error) | 12:56 |
| _|Nix|_ | alterego: Yeah. That. | 12:56 |
| _|Nix|_ | It's been that way for, like, what is it now, a week? | 12:56 |
| _|Nix|_ | ... and only on armel. | 12:56 |
| _|Nix|_ | The x86 repo works fine. | 12:57 |
| convulted | _|Nix|_: It was working on Saturday night (Europe) | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | maybe you hit when armel uploads are getting done? | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: ^ | 12:57 |
| zaheerm | armel one was fine last night | 12:57 |
| _|Nix|_ | I dunno ... I just tried it again. Broken. | 12:57 |
| moo__ | is there good tutorial how to create distribution .deb from the scratch for new application? | 12:57 |
| convulted | Stskeeps: How long would that be expected to take? | 12:57 |
| moo__ | i.e. i am not porting any existing linux/debian application | 12:57 |
| * _|Nix|_ is updating repos on his N900 ... | 12:58 | |
| alterego | moo__: there's a maemo on, but the debian package maintainer guide is probably a good place to start really. | 12:58 |
| _|Nix|_ | Fark! Now extras-testing has the same problem! | 12:58 |
| Lynoure | suihkulokki: yes, that one. | 12:59 |
| _|Nix|_ | So, both extras-testing and extras-devel fail with the same "No Hash entry in Release file" problem ... | 12:59 |
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| _|Nix|_ | This really, really sux0rz ... | 13:01 |
| convulted | Seconded. Anything we can do? | 13:01 |
| _|Nix|_ | I dunno who's responsible for the repos. | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2009/09/14/9894607.aspx is something i need to mention the next time someone bothers me about sorting | 13:02 |
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| suihkulokki | Lynoure: iirc she worked for novo (or some other big it consulting house) | 13:02 |
| Lynoure | suihkulokki: hmm. | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | _|Nix|_: jeremiah & X-Fade (X-Fade is on holiday) | 13:02 |
| _|Nix|_ | Well, considering jeremiah hasn't chimed in, I guess he's not around either. | 13:03 |
| suihkulokki | Lynoure: because I worked for one big consulting house then and I remember it was our competitor | 13:03 |
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| Lynoure | suihkulokki: Could be. | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2009/09/11/9894019.aspx | 13:07 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 13:07 | |
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| timeless_mbp | _|Nix|_: anyway, you basically get to wait | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry :) | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | you could run a mirror and build your own pkgdb | 13:09 |
| _|Nix|_ | Interestingly, apt-get update with extras-devel works on scratchbox armel, just not on the device. Also, extras-testing works again ... | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | _|Nix|_: it's a chaotic problem | 13:11 |
| timeless_mbp | the index is being relatively constantly rebuilt and corrupted | 13:11 |
| timeless_mbp | so timing is everything :) | 13:11 |
| timeless_mbp | http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2009/09/09/9893085.aspx -- i wonder if that was w3:tpac | 13:11 |
| _|Nix|_ | Great ... have they heard of this algorithm: "Do everything you need in a temporary_location && mv temporary_location permanent_location"? | 13:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i think they've heard of an algorithm called "buy more hardware" | 13:13 |
| lardman | another 770! yay! | 13:13 |
| timeless_mbp | which seems to rely on "waiting" | 13:13 |
| * Stskeeps pokes his dead dead sb2 | 13:15 | |
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| * timeless_mbp tries to use a dpkg-trigger | 13:17 | |
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| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: i still need binary hacking help :) | 13:17 |
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| convulted | jeremiah: Could you check the extras-devel repo please? | 13:22 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 13:23 |
| convulted | _|Nix|_: Update worked now... | 13:23 |
| _|Nix|_ | convulted: Including extras-devel? | 13:23 |
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| convulted | _|Nix|_: apt-get update worked | 13:23 |
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| lardman | jeremiah: You're back! | 13:32 |
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| lardman | jeremiah: Can you advise me on some debainsationeration please? | 13:32 |
| comawhite | I installed the libqt4-maemo5-dev qt4-dev-tools but somehow it can't find qmake | 13:38 |
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| comawhite | nevermind I had to run /opt/qt4-maemo5/qmake to get it | 13:40 |
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| tbf | comawhite: with autotroll you could tell configure once where to find Qt :-D --- well, but maybe not the right thing unless you prefer autotools over other build systems | 13:42 |
| comawhite | I actually prefer cmake | 13:42 |
| comawhite | just wanted to easily test qt-4.6 out | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | delicious cake. | 13:42 |
| comawhite | tbf, I don't fuck with autohell | 13:43 |
| comawhite | ;P | 13:43 |
| lardman | man after my own heart ;) | 13:43 |
| murrayc | Yeah, who wants things to work anyway. | 13:43 |
| tbf | comawhite: i don't get why people prefer imperative build systems over declarative build systems | 13:43 |
| comawhite | tbf, because it's difficult to understand and not cross platform | 13:44 |
| tbf | comawhite: people how use cmake also could just write shell scripts to build their stuff | 13:44 |
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| comawhite | cmake > autohell :P | 13:44 |
| lardman | murrayc: it's just those cases where it doesn't "just work" that are the annoying ones ;) | 13:44 |
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| tbf | comawhite: cmake == an untalented undergrade's work | 13:45 |
| murrayc | lardman: Unfortunately I've found that cmake doesn't work for my simple cases. And qmake doesn't even try to solve the simplest build problems. | 13:45 |
| tbf | from conceptional POV | 13:45 |
| lardman | oh i wasn't talking about cmake, just about autotools | 13:45 |
| comawhite | plus my app is a KDE4 app so I have to use cmake anyways ;) | 13:45 |
| murrayc | Yeah, it's complicated. I'm happy enough with it now though. | 13:45 |
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| tbf | lardman: you just make the mistake of abusing google for finding autotools documentation | 13:45 |
| murrayc | I wish we could easily stop ourselves from using deprecated autotools syntax, to make google show cleaner examples. | 13:46 |
| tbf | lardman: those days google has the bad habit of top-ranking only crap when it comes to technical topics | 13:46 |
| murrayc | Yeah, it prefers conversations to reference documentation. | 13:46 |
| comawhite | tbf, and if we can get people to stop using that horrible thing called Gtk also :P | 13:46 |
| lardman | yeah, well I think part of my problem is the mysteries of debianisation, whose docs are almost as good ;) | 13:46 |
| lardman | comawhite: np there as long as I don't have to use that horrible thing called C++ | 13:47 |
| tbf | comawhite: when will qt get a reasonable signal system? | 13:47 |
| comawhite | C++ is better than C :P | 13:47 |
| tbf | comawhite: LOL! | 13:47 |
| lardman | you're on to a looser there | 13:47 |
| comawhite | tbf, you do know they invented the signal/slots ;) | 13:47 |
| tbf | comawhite: just would be nice, if they wouldn't have implemented that stuff in a style that makes you think they stopped following computer science somewhere in the 60er's | 13:48 |
| tbf | comawhite: keyword "encapsulation" | 13:48 |
| tbf | comawhite: i really don't get why every signal handler (aka slot) has to be public | 13:49 |
| tbf | comawhite: yes, you can hide the slot's C++ signature with "private slot:" | 13:49 |
| tbf | comawhite: but the signal still remains invokable by entire world by it's qualified name | 13:49 |
| comawhite | well you have to understand boost, gtk, .NET took the idea too ;) | 13:50 |
| * lardman wonders whether to bring up vi vs vim.... | 13:50 | |
| tbf | comawhite: just that in every other platform you can have __private__ signal handlers | 13:50 |
| comawhite | lardman, I use neither :P | 13:50 |
| lardman | just taking the piss don;'t worry | 13:50 |
| tbf | comawhite: slots/signal handlers really are implementation details which don't belong into the public interface | 13:51 |
| comawhite | tbf, then use pimpl | 13:52 |
| comawhite | like qt and kde use | 13:52 |
| cosmo | is new years eve public holiday in usa? | 13:53 |
| tbf | comawhite: lol! Qt rediscovered G_TYPE_INSTANCE_GET_PRIVATE | 13:53 |
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| comawhite | huh | 13:53 |
| comawhite | cosmo, yes? | 13:54 |
| comawhite | tbf, how about Gtk discover NOT_REINVENT_THE_OOP_WHEEL | 13:54 |
| comawhite | :P | 13:54 |
| cosmo | ok.. i wonder if they do segway tours in new years eve :) | 13:54 |
| comawhite | i have no idea | 13:55 |
| tbf | comawhite: hmm? wtf? | 13:55 |
| tbf | comawhite: you are not seriously one of those kids who think OOP is a language feature? | 13:55 |
| comawhite | tbf, gtk+ has to reivent the oop wheel just do gui | 13:56 |
| comawhite | tbf, it's already in C++ why add it to C | 13:56 |
| tbf | comawhite: because OOP is an useful design pattern? | 13:56 |
| comawhite | anyways | 13:56 |
| tbf | comawhite: because C++ gets OOP entirely wrong? | 13:56 |
| epa_ | did anyone implement yet the "Shift + Space" producing '|' character yet? | 13:57 |
| comawhite | anyways lets change subject | 13:57 |
| epa_ | would be way handier than gettting it trought the symbol table. | 13:57 |
| comawhite | will networking work in the emulator? | 13:57 |
| tbf | comawhite: i am pretty sure 90% most C users would immediately start using C++ if bjarne wouldn't have created such mess | 13:58 |
| comawhite | C is a mess too | 13:58 |
| comawhite | C++ is only a mess because bjarne wanted backwards compatibility | 13:58 |
| comawhite | with C | 13:58 |
| tbf | comawhite: aha. not virtual methods, non virtual destructors, operator overloading, copy constructors by default, references vs. pointers, ... | 13:59 |
| tbf | ...that all was caused by backwards compatibility | 13:59 |
| tbf | comawhite: no, bjarne just is a bad language designer. and i am sure he knows. too bad the fanboys who pick up his language don't realize. | 14:00 |
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| tbf | hmm. and if C++ is the awesome, why does every stupid little framework invent it's own container framework for instance? | 14:01 |
| tbf | (bonus points for Qt containers to be STL compatible, btw) | 14:02 |
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| tbf | back to this boring code review work. | 14:03 |
| RST38h | comawhite: Hey, there are C clones that break backward compatibility! | 14:03 |
| RST38h | JAVA! | 14:03 |
| comawhite | fuck slowva | 14:04 |
| * RST38h laughs diabolically | 14:04 | |
| RST38h | tbf: That is because every stupid little C++ programmer thinks he can do things better than previous little stupid C++ programmers | 14:05 |
| comawhite | tbf, because compilers still use pre-ansi stl, sun studio 5 still doesn't fully support C++98 | 14:05 |
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| RST38h | tbf: Also see: build systems, Linux audio frameworks | 14:05 |
| comawhite | RST38h, well at least Nokia is doing it right with Qt unlike wxWidgets | 14:05 |
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| comawhite | :P | 14:05 |
| RST38h | What is Sun Studio 5? Is it something DJs use? | 14:06 |
| comawhite | some stupid Sun's C++ compiler | 14:06 |
| tbf | comawhite: Qt >>>>>>^7 trillions wxWidgets | 14:06 |
| comawhite | tbf, I agree | 14:06 |
| RST38h | Who cares about it then? Why bring it up? | 14:06 |
| tbf | "Sun" what? | 14:06 |
| comawhite | the one who invented Java? | 14:07 |
| comawhite | Sun? | 14:07 |
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| tbf | comawhite: yes, just was pointing to the irrelevance of their proprietary compiler | 14:08 |
| adeus | dio frameworks | 14:09 |
| adeus | [14:05:43] < comawhite> RST38h, well at least Nokia is doing it right with Qt unlike wxWidgets | 14:09 |
| adeus | [14:05:43] »» danilocesar [n=danilo@200.184.118.130] has joined #maemo | 14:09 |
| adeus | argh | 14:09 |
| comawhite | failed :P | 14:09 |
| adeus | yes | 14:09 |
| danilocesar | lol | 14:09 |
| comawhite | but anyways, each to their own | 14:10 |
| javispedro | "Besides, even a iPhone that sent stuff to another planet and got a reply, can’t beat a Linux running Nokia N900 with built-in full root access." | 14:10 |
| comawhite | well from what I seen n900 owns the iphone :P | 14:10 |
| javispedro | n900 fanboyism extendingto slashdot.... aim for cover. | 14:10 |
| comawhite | just too bad $565 price tag :( | 14:10 |
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| adeus | knowing Nokia that will drop fast | 14:11 |
| comawhite | I hope so | 14:11 |
| glass_ | iirc i saw a headline of it dropping to 4xx already | 14:11 |
| comawhite | right now, I'm stuck with just an emulator | 14:11 |
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| javispedro | EMULATOR!!! | 14:11 |
| javispedro | NOT AN EMULATOR!! | 14:11 |
| comawhite | the SDK isn't an emulator? | 14:12 |
| comawhite | well you know what I mean | 14:12 |
| * javispedro looks around to see if crash and die (spaced not to ping him) is around or not ;) | 14:12 | |
| wazd | RST38h: have you received any details on tomorrows event? | 14:13 |
| wazd | javispedro: he definitely has ping detector on "die" :D | 14:14 |
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| javispedro | ssssh then ;P | 14:15 |
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| * kirma enjoys his n900... whole hour now | 14:17 | |
| kirma | <fanboi> | 14:17 |
| viggi | I can't wait to have mine :| | 14:17 |
| aquatix | ooh | 14:17 |
| kirma | cow-orkers seem to be interested | 14:17 |
| comawhite | viggi, me either | 14:17 |
| aquatix | it does have an onscreen keyboard too btw? | 14:17 |
| aquatix | my girlfriend is interested (yeah, i was amazed too) | 14:18 |
| comawhite | as long as I have msn, irc, yahoo, aim and web I'll be happy | 14:18 |
| kirma | onscreen keyboard is optional on landscape mode | 14:18 |
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| Shapeshifter | How long did it take from the release of the n800 to the release of the n810 and could that be a representative scale for a possible release of a "n910" of sorts? Because it is possible that the n900 wont release here until mid-january, and in that case I'm thinking I'll just go for another phone for now (something android) and get the n900 follow up in half a year or so. | 14:19 |
| * javispedro watches someone confuse "alias" field in bugzilla with "nickname" | 14:19 | |
| Shapeshifter | because it seems to me there are quite a few things to improve hardware wise on the n900. | 14:19 |
| javispedro | hardware wise? other than battery life... | 14:19 |
| Myrtti | Shapeshifter: your guesses are as good as ours, we do not own a crystal ball | 14:19 |
| Shapeshifter | and if nokia is cool they'd release a remake of the n900 which is slimmer and all that stuff. | 14:19 |
| viggi | nokia is cool. | 14:20 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: slimmer, better screen, better keyboard, compass.... | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | Shapeshifter: no. helly kitty shell. | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | hello kitty, i mean | 14:20 |
| tbf | Shapeshifter: did you actually have a n900 in your hands already? | 14:20 |
| comawhite | Stskeeps, I want that ;P j/k | 14:20 |
| Shapeshifter | tbf: no. | 14:20 |
| javispedro | better screen? better keyboard? | 14:20 |
| tbf | Shapeshifter: the device is smaller than you might expect by reading the specs | 14:20 |
| comawhite | I want a cheaper price tag | 14:20 |
| Shapeshifter | okay I'll stop. But, at least my first question was valid ;) How long from the n800 to the n810? | 14:21 |
| Myrtti | I want a kitten | 14:21 |
| comawhite | i want a taco | 14:21 |
| Shapeshifter | I want an n900? | 14:21 |
| tbf | Shapeshifter: even fits into your shirt's breast pocket | 14:21 |
| javispedro | make it "worse screen" (capacitive), "worse battery life" (compass) and you may be nearer what the n900 + 1 will be ;) | 14:21 |
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| kalikianatoli | What about a hello kitty theme for n900 with taco icons? | 14:21 |
| comawhite | lol | 14:22 |
| lardman | well compass wuold be good | 14:22 |
| lardman | kalikianatoli: I'd consider that a regression | 14:22 |
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| Stskeeps | god, i love my rsync->mkfs.ubifs util | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | allows me to snapshot my n900 | 14:22 |
| viggi | compass.. hm, don't you already have gps on the n900? | 14:22 |
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| lardman | ys, but gps!=compass | 14:22 |
| aquatix | compass is rather nice to have | 14:22 |
| tbf | viggi: well, a real compass might react faster than GPS | 14:22 |
| viggi | true | 14:23 |
| tbf | viggi: GPS can take quite some time to figure out your position and orientation | 14:23 |
| viggi | I read somewhere that the gps is pretty quick on it | 14:23 |
| adeus | can it figure out your orientation? | 14:23 |
| t_s_o | the only way a gps can get orientation is if you move in some direction, and then it will assume your pointing in the direction of movement until the next movement... | 14:23 |
| IcanCU | i want skype video calls on a mobile phone | 14:24 |
| wazd | "Welcome to the N900 meet-up !" | 14:24 |
| javispedro | I want digital barometric altimeter | 14:24 |
| lardman | gps is pretty quick with assistance | 14:24 |
| wazd | ah, at least I'm not fucked up here :D | 14:24 |
| viggi | javispedro: lol | 14:24 |
| lardman | javispedro: that's not particularly useful though | 14:24 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: by better screen, I mean multitouch capable. | 14:24 |
| lardman | nah | 14:24 |
| Shapeshifter | resistive is fine by me. | 14:24 |
| * aquatix wants a termometer and a sundial | 14:24 | |
| javispedro | Shapeshifter: well nokia has already say they're going for capacitive. | 14:25 |
| Shapeshifter | and a compass is total win for street view and such stuff. | 14:25 |
| lardman | aquatix: I imagine there is a thermometer somewhere in the chipset | 14:25 |
| Myrtti | I want my N910 to have a kitten in it. | 14:25 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: mh. Well. I guess I don't care. | 14:25 |
| Myrtti | otherwise Nokia is shit. | 14:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: "We will provide some nibble food and N900 demos" Run for your life :D | 14:25 |
| Myrtti | I can haz kitten? | 14:25 |
| IcanCU | *a kitten that purs | 14:25 |
| aquatix | lardman: yeah, n810 has one in the screen, but that's skewed by design | 14:25 |
| javispedro | no kitten? dealbreaker!! | 14:25 |
| Shapeshifter | Myrtti: I'm sure there's an app for the iphone for that. | 14:25 |
| aquatix | as the screen generates warmth itself | 14:25 |
| wazd | Shapeshifter: fart != purr | 14:26 |
| Shapeshifter | wazd: lol | 14:26 |
| Myrtti | I want a _furry_ kitten | 14:26 |
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| Shapeshifter | a farting kitten? | 14:26 |
| wazd | eeew | 14:26 |
| aquatix | Myrtti: every kitten gets furry eventually | 14:26 |
| t_s_o | more like barfing hairballs... | 14:26 |
| aquatix | even if it doesn't pur anymore | 14:26 |
| wazd | t_s_o: eeeeeeeeeeeew | 14:26 |
| IcanCU | its hurts my balls when she licks | 14:26 |
| * Shapeshifter is still wondering if he should get a screen protector for the n900. | 14:27 | |
| aquatix | IcanCU: ... | 14:27 |
| Shapeshifter | I fear the sensitivity will drop hard. | 14:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | You get naked kittens | 14:27 |
| Shapeshifter | and I'm taking good care of the device anyway. | 14:27 |
| aquatix | i wonder how scratch resistent the screen is | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: IMO - it doesn't affect much | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: and it means that one grain of sand trapped in your nail doesn't scratch irreversably | 14:27 |
| Shapeshifter | I'll always keep it in a pouch though, so I figure I might not need one. | 14:28 |
| aquatix | the boxwave ones are great | 14:28 |
| * nomis points to http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/screenlick | 14:28 | |
| Shapeshifter | mhhh | 14:28 |
| aquatix | Shapeshifter: i've used screen protectors with all my resistive touchscreen bearing devices | 14:28 |
| aquatix | it's nice not to worry about sharp thingees on your nails | 14:28 |
| aquatix | like sand | 14:28 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh. | 14:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: No - a grain of sand getting on your fingernail - when you go to swipe the screen forex. | 14:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Unless you keep your hands in pouches too. | 14:29 |
| Shapeshifter | okay. | 14:29 |
| * SpeedEvil realises Shapeshifter is really a kangaroo. | 14:29 | |
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| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: I'm many things to many people. | 14:29 |
| Shapeshifter | or something... | 14:29 |
| aquatix | you're a woman? | 14:30 |
| Shapeshifter | but boxwave doesn't have one for the n900 yet. | 14:30 |
| Shapeshifter | aquatix: nah. | 14:30 |
| javispedro | he's the medium ,he's the message, he's the one | 14:30 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 14:30 |
| aquatix | Shapeshifter: ah :( well, i guess they will have soon | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | What sort of massage? | 14:30 |
| Myrtti | there is no spoon | 14:30 |
| javispedro | a $5 massage | 14:31 |
| Shapeshifter | Maybe I'll get a durasec instead | 14:31 |
| * SpeedEvil has ordered a protector. | 14:31 | |
| * javispedro is waiting for brando | 14:31 | |
| javispedro | hmpf. | 14:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19941 (protector) | 14:33 |
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| xorAxAx | do they have bags as well? | 14:35 |
| SpeedEvil | cases? | 14:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't think so | 14:35 |
| nomis | is there no sleeve/bag included with the N900? | 14:35 |
| viggi | !? | 14:35 |
| xorAxAx | the n810 had one but i couldnt find the sleeve on the packing list for the n900 | 14:36 |
| xorAxAx | can somebody confirm this? | 14:36 |
| viggi | oh the horror | 14:36 |
| aquatix | hm | 14:36 |
| aquatix | need a sock then :) | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10 | 14:36 |
| SpeedEvil | well - you could use ... | 14:36 |
| xorAxAx | are they large enough? | 14:36 |
| aquatix | xorAxAx: two socks then | 14:36 |
| xorAxAx | i mean the SpeedEvil ones | 14:37 |
| aquatix | ah ;) | 14:37 |
| mihu | xorAxAx: I can confirm that the N900 package neither contains a bog nor a sleeve. Just a tissue for cleaning the screen. | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | xorAxAx: I have no idea - I thought that was about the same size as an ipod classic | 14:38 |
| xorAxAx | see, so everybody needs to buy socks | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | xorAxAx: Check of course | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | xorAxAx: Why? I have several. | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | wearing 4 ATM. | 14:38 |
| xorAxAx | its 7 mm longer and 8 mm thicker | 14:40 |
| Shapeshifter | I think I'll get 5x durasec cleartec | 14:40 |
| viggi | i'll need to buy shirts with breastpockets on them :F | 14:40 |
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| Shapeshifter | or I'll wait for the boxwave ones. | 14:42 |
| moo__ | where can I get dh_make? | 14:42 |
| moo__ | is there a maemo specific version available? | 14:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: I'd get any screen protector that will fit ASAP | 14:43 |
| lardman | just stick it in your pocket and avoid keys and the like | 14:44 |
| lardman | mine is, touch wood, still unscathed | 14:44 |
| lardman | viggi: breast pockets with braces, as it's rather dense still | 14:44 |
| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: I don't even have the phone | 14:45 |
| Shapeshifter | might well be until end december | 14:45 |
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| zaheerm | moo__, install debhelper | 14:47 |
| xorAxAx | is there a page that explains how to build packages for maemo 5? | 14:48 |
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| moo__ | zaheerm: thanks! | 14:51 |
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| xorAxAx | can i still use my old scratchbox environment? | 14:52 |
| kalikianatoli | xorAxAx, basically just debian packagin, plus additional fileds in control, which you can see in any maemo package source | 14:52 |
| xorAxAx | kalikianatoli: yes, but in which environment do i execute the dpkg commands? in a scratchbox, right? | 14:53 |
| kalikianatoli | depending on how old your old sbox is, you will need to upgrade the packages | 14:53 |
| kalikianatoli | yep | 14:53 |
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| hrw | re | 14:56 |
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| Shapeshifter | lolwut. The nokia mail client on the n900 can't search mails? | 15:00 |
| Shapeshifter | rediculous. | 15:00 |
| * Shapeshifter thinks about using mutt. -.- | 15:00 | |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind a good gmail client :P | 15:01 |
| bleader | a browser ? :p | 15:01 |
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| papo | tbf, timeless: this keeps getting odder and odder, even the official picture at amazon.de has the nonexistent layout: http://www.amazon.de/Nokia-Smartphone-Vertrag-Branding-Simlock/dp/B002N2Z0MQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=ce-de&qid=1258981610&sr=8-1 | 15:09 |
| range | Maybe that's why nokia.de isn't shipping yet >:) | 15:09 |
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| papo | lol | 15:10 |
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| papo | range: actually according to some stores, it should be available in early December in Switzerland. But it turned out that they ship a version which a keyboard I wouldn't like that much :( | 15:11 |
| Shapeshifter | papo: I don't think it'll be here in early december | 15:11 |
| Shapeshifter | that would be a miracle. | 15:12 |
| Shapeshifter | papo: your probably read at digitec that mobilezone staff said end december/begin january even. | 15:12 |
| kalikianatoli | papo, that doesn't have any umlauts. makes you wonder if they ripped out the z to swap it :-P | 15:12 |
| Shapeshifter | although mobilezone sure isn't a prime source >.> | 15:12 |
| kalikianatoli | papo, also note the display shows English strings | 15:14 |
| lbt | yay..... Barcelona... | 15:14 |
| papo | Shapeshifter: no, I had some email exchange with product managers while asking for the keyboard. I'm just replicating what they said; from previous experiences, I'd highly doubt the credibility of that information | 15:14 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah | 15:14 |
| papo | kalikianatoli: My problem is that I don't want the german keyboard | 15:14 |
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| Shapeshifter | papo: soooner or later, digitec might offer the US keyboard | 15:15 |
| Shapeshifter | if demand is there | 15:15 |
| Shapeshifter | but I wouldn't bet on it. | 15:15 |
| lbt | papo: send me some money and I'll buy you a UK one and I *promise* to mail it to you | 15:15 |
| papo | Shapeshifter: even though I didn't explicitly ask for for QWERTY version, they said that it was not clear whether they'd ship that one day | 15:15 |
| papo | Shapeshifter: to be clear, I asked them about the keyboard layout. The replied a load of stuff but actually failed to answer my question | 15:16 |
| papo | lbt: sure :) | 15:16 |
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| kalikianatoli | papo, be careful, he didn't say *when* he would mail it ;) | 15:17 |
| lbt | shh | 15:17 |
| papo | :) | 15:17 |
| papo | Shapeshifter: http://pastebin.com/m4e153946 FYI | 15:18 |
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| papo | Shapeshifter: as you can see, I rephrased my question twice but they didn't get it | 15:19 |
| Shapeshifter | papo: well. | 15:24 |
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| Shapeshifter | papo: mh, he says that begin of december is "sure" | 15:30 |
| Shapeshifter | how can they ever be "sure". | 15:30 |
| Shapeshifter | *rolleyes | 15:31 |
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| papo | sure. Look at how he answered my question | 15:31 |
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| papo | that's the best advertisement for non-credibility actually | 15:31 |
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| Shapeshifter | what about this rumour that the n900 will go up in smoke if held at 600mhz? | 15:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, not a rumor. | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, overvoltage. | 15:52 |
| CoreFusion- | Wasn't that told at the summit, don't do it | 15:52 |
| tigert | nice | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just don't screw around with your power management settings and the device will handle itself just fine. | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Igor said that. | 15:52 |
| sulx | woot? | 15:52 |
| tigert | kept my n900 in gsm network, but no usage or internet, shows full battery after a workday | 15:53 |
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| hrw | http://www.allegro.pl/item827482159_nowa_nokia_n900_tv_bez_simloka_32gb.html - check photos ;D | 15:53 |
| hrw | first n900 fake on auction sale ;D | 15:53 |
| tigert | haha | 15:53 |
| Shapeshifter | hrw: huh | 15:54 |
| tigert | photos shaky "by accident" I bet :) | 15:55 |
| Myrtti | "MMS Tak" | 15:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just, fyi, while loading and playing back a YouTube video. http://pastebin.com/m5c709b99 | 15:55 |
| Shapeshifter | Myrtti: that means MMS - yes. | 15:55 |
| Myrtti | fail | 15:55 |
| Myrtti | mwahaha | 15:55 |
| alterego | Hah | 15:55 |
| Myrtti | Shapeshifter: aka: FAIL | 15:56 |
| lardman | my wife yesterday again commented on the crapness of my phone due to lack of MMS | 15:56 |
| zaheerm | GeneralAntilles, can you do same benchmark with zoutube while it plays back? | 15:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, lol. | 15:57 |
| alterego | Hah, can she not email? | 15:57 |
| alterego | I've not sent _one_ MMS in my entire life .. | 15:57 |
| Myrtti | alterego: email is not a viable option for everyone | 15:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've sent one. | 15:57 |
| lardman | probably can, but didn;t want to | 15:57 |
| jaska | i think ive received two mms | 15:57 |
| zaheerm | it's true tho, quite a few people use mms | 15:57 |
| jaska | sent none | 15:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | The quality was so useless I've never bothered sending a second. | 15:58 |
| hrw | alterego: I've sent many | 15:58 |
| zaheerm | comes out of normal tarriffs and most people can receive them | 15:58 |
| alterego | Myrtti: more people have email than MMS :P | 15:58 |
| lardman | anyway she sent me one and it's now lost in the ether | 15:58 |
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| hrw | when cost of sms == cost of mms then sending 1000 chars for price of 160 makes difference | 15:58 |
| lardman | not more people walking around I'll bet | 15:58 |
| Myrtti | alterego: more people have mms capable phones and mms plans than data plans | 15:58 |
| alterego | MMS costs me a _lot_ more than SMS | 15:58 |
| lardman | costs me 1.5x SMS iirc, and I get millions of those free every month so no worries | 15:59 |
| zaheerm | it comes out of my text allowance | 15:59 |
| lardman | same | 15:59 |
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| zaheerm | and my text allowance avergae is 10% used | 15:59 |
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| lardman | s/free/included for the pedants | 15:59 |
| Myrtti | if an mms costs 1.79€ per bang, it still costs less to send three of those than to buy a data package for a month for 9.80 or pay by megabyte with ridiculous ratesd | 15:59 |
| lardman | yeah, I think I have 1k/month | 15:59 |
| lardman | no way I could use that | 15:59 |
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| lardman | perhaps 500, still far out of my texting reach | 16:00 |
| Shapeshifter | does the n900 provide facilities to send SMS from the command line? At least through dbus? | 16:01 |
| Myrtti | the probability of people without dataplan buying a N900 is small, I agree, but MMS has its usecases | 16:01 |
| alterego | Well, my operator charges me about 35p per MMS, and I have unlimited inclusive SMS | 16:01 |
| alterego | I don't think so, MMS is shit | 16:01 |
| adeus | it was dead on arrival | 16:01 |
| alterego | Upload to flicker and send them a link | 16:01 |
| Myrtti | alterego: and so many people in the world don't agree | 16:01 |
| alterego | Everyone should have a dataplan. | 16:01 |
| Myrtti | alterego: why? | 16:01 |
| alterego | Myrtti: you don't agree, you've not asked all the other people in the world. | 16:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, http://pastebin.com/m18b212b6 | 16:01 |
| Myrtti | alterego: my sister wouldn't do jack shit with the dataplan | 16:01 |
| glass_ | mms is like a shitty dataplan | 16:02 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:02 |
| papo | alterego: actually I had one single experience in my life where MMS was actually helpful | 16:02 |
| Shapeshifter | GeneralAntilles: uhm what? | 16:02 |
| lardman | mms is for stuff you don't necessarily want to share with the world on flickr | 16:02 |
| Shapeshifter | GeneralAntilles: I saw that. Yes. | 16:02 |
| alterego | papo: :) | 16:02 |
| Myrtti | she doesn't use facebook on her phone, doesn't check her email on the run, doesn't need to be online | 16:02 |
| papo | alterego: I was driving home from a barbecue party and realized that I forgot a decent steak there. So I sent an SMS to a friend which still was there and told him he could eat my meat | 16:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, look more closely, thanks. :) | 16:02 |
| alterego | Myrtti: she doesn't think she doesn't need to be. | 16:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, and I'll do the same! | 16:03 |
| alterego | Give her the chance, give her an N900 with a data plan and I bet she'll be on facebook all day :P | 16:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | zaheerm! http://pastebin.com/m18b212b6 | 16:03 |
| lardman | papo: unfortunate choice of words! :D | 16:03 |
| Myrtti | alterego: and she doesn't have the funds to get a dataplan. | 16:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles should put his glasses on. | 16:03 | |
| papo | alterego: and then he answered with an MMS-picture of the thing and I could confirm this was the right one | 16:03 |
| Myrtti | alterego: I'm not made of gold | 16:03 |
| papo | lardman: uh true | 16:03 |
| Shapeshifter | ^^ | 16:03 |
| alterego | Hahah | 16:03 |
| alterego | Nice story, but, well, still rather unnecessary | 16:04 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: ping | 16:04 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: pong | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Murdoch considers delisting from Google Search, being paid by MS =) | 16:04 |
| adeus | is that a threat or a promise | 16:05 |
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| Myrtti | anyway, she's happy with her s40 phone | 16:05 |
| Myrtti | and isn't likely to buy a smart phone any time soon | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: check your mail | 16:05 |
| adeus | I've never managedo to send a mms | 16:05 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: if you've sent me a message, my email seems to not be receiving atm and this irc client is crap and may not have shown a PM :) | 16:05 |
| alterego | Well, my dataplan is about 100 MMS messages in price. | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: ah, lovely | 16:05 |
| adeus | either my sendin fails or the receiving end doesn't get it | 16:05 |
| ali1234 | adeus: it probably isn't enabled on your account | 16:05 |
| alterego | And I have unlimited inclusive data, unlimited texts and 600 minutes. | 16:06 |
| lardman | actually PMs are working I now see | 16:06 |
| adeus | ali1234, yes | 16:06 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: I tell a lie, just turned up | 16:06 |
| adeus | ali1234, and I've complained about it Nth times | 16:06 |
| adeus | then I started to sens emails | 16:06 |
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| zaheerm | GeneralAntilles, cool so can i conclude from that, that zoutube is better for power efficiency than the flash plugin in-browser? | 16:06 |
| adeus | problem disappappeared :P | 16:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | zaheerm, clearly. ;) | 16:06 |
| adeus | disappeared.. | 16:06 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: cool, will do some hacking this evening then :) | 16:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | zaheerm, but, who's surprised? ;) | 16:06 |
| zaheerm | GeneralAntilles, true :) | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: thanks - it's completely out of my league. did the internal omapfb get disabled or something in kernel? | 16:07 |
| zaheerm | GeneralAntilles, thx for the benchmarking, what tool did you use for it? | 16:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | powertop | 16:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So it's not much of a benchmark, but vaguely interesting for power states. | 16:07 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: no clue, but should have some more this evening I hope | 16:07 |
| zaheerm | aah i should install that | 16:07 |
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| * zaheerm wants to promote zoutube now to extras-testing | 16:07 | |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: thanks. let me know | 16:08 |
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| adeus | I heard that because of copyright issues mms messages can not be automatically scaled/tranformed to be supported on the other side | 16:10 |
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| adeus | this was the reason that operator-operator messages were practically broken at least first | 16:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So, it seems confirmed that there's no warranty on the DDP. | 16:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just, FYI, to anybody who's ordered. | 16:17 |
| Corsac | DDP? | 16:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | N900 discount program | 16:18 |
| RST38h | URL? | 16:18 |
| Corsac | ok | 16:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which, weren't we moving away from using "Developer" in that. . . . | 16:18 |
| penguinb82 | device discount program | 16:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=387051&postcount=441 | 16:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, right. | 16:18 |
| Corsac | (I'll make sure not to break the device I don't have) | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: i see a define for omaplcd 240x320, probably not the right resolutiom (embedded/omap24xx_lcd/kernel) | 16:18 |
| * GeneralAntilles should still put his glasses on. | 16:18 | |
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| papo | Shapeshifter: Hm interesting, this one seems to come with a QWERTY layout: http://www.expansys.ch/d.aspx?i=188856 | 16:22 |
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| Shapeshifter | papo: mhh, interesting | 16:23 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: ok | 16:23 |
| Shapeshifter | papo: but well, I'll buy it subsidised, so I guess expansys is not an option. | 16:24 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: will have to save if for this evening I'm afraid, busy doing day-job atm | 16:24 |
| lardman | I also wonder whether they've got the fb location wrong | 16:24 |
| lardman | but will check later on | 16:24 |
| papo | Shapeshifter: Hm no plans for subsidies here, but still not sure :) | 16:25 |
| Shapeshifter | Does anyone know how to get sqlite3 into python in the SDK? (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34942) :| | 16:30 |
| lizardo | Shapeshifter: which python2.5 version you have installed ? | 16:31 |
| lizardo | Shapeshifter: the "error" you mention is just a warning, no problem there :) | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: are there any other knowledged people in mbx than you and javispedro? can't recall who investigated a lot back the | 16:32 |
| lardman | ph5 | 16:32 |
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| lizardo | Shapeshifter: I have 2.5.4-1maemo3 here and "import sqlite3" works on it | 16:32 |
| lardman | he wrote some code to switch the chipset on | 16:33 |
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| lizardo | Shapeshifter: also make sure you are calling "python2.5" , not just "python" | 16:33 |
| Stskeeps | ~seen ph5 | 16:33 |
| infobot | ph5 <n=ph5@e178203008.adsl.alicedsl.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 3d 21h 1m 24s ago, saying: 'hi woglinde'. | 16:33 |
| lardman | I've got an email for him, hang on a tick | 16:33 |
| Shapeshifter | lizardo: ohhh, that was the problem, I just called "python" | 16:33 |
| Shapeshifter | lizardo: thanks! | 16:33 |
| moo__ | what dependencies I need to list in debian control file if I build Qt app for N900? | 16:33 |
| lizardo | Shapeshifter: np ;) | 16:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, what's progress on the drivers? | 16:35 |
| vesa | is it possible to use binary shaders on the n900? | 16:35 |
| Shapeshifter | ha!! | 16:35 |
| Shapeshifter | this is amazing | 16:35 |
| Shapeshifter | I _love_ this. | 16:35 |
| Shapeshifter | I just ran the python calendar I wrote on the SDK and it just works xD | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | oooh joy | 16:36 |
| lardman | anyone bored? | 16:36 |
| Corsac | I love when people are amazed by thing working correctly :) We live in a world where it's the exception | 16:36 |
| lardman | I quite fancy a game of battlegwled, anyone want to package it for fremantle? ;) | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | Corsac: ^^ | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh. Is there a hildonized Qt theme on the repos? | 16:37 |
| Shapeshifter | Or how would I best apply a hildonized qt theme to qt? It seems like there's no qtconfig on maemo. | 16:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, somebody should talk to INdT. | 16:38 |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I guess Stskeeps has sorted that through Nokia | 16:39 |
| lardman | oh | 16:39 |
| lardman | the game you mean? | 16:39 |
| lardman | :) | 16:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 16:39 |
| Flandry_ | sorted how? | 16:39 |
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| Shapeshifter | ahh this is so awesome. Gives me a huge motivational boost in finishing this calendar. | 16:39 |
| Shapeshifter | I quite fancy it. | 16:39 |
| lardman | ignore me, wires crossed | 16:39 |
| Shapeshifter | Need to optimize it for maemo. | 16:40 |
| lardman | setanta: ping | 16:40 |
| lardman | setanta: any chance of a Fremantle version of battlegweled? | 16:40 |
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| lardman | bbiab | 16:46 |
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| moo__ | are there instructions how to set up cross-compilation scratchbox over WLAN? USB networking is major pain in the ass and seems to require R&D mode | 16:47 |
| setanta | lardman|gone, i'm no longer the maintainer (but I suppose my name is still there) | 16:51 |
| setanta | I will check who have taken it | 16:51 |
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| Flandry_ | Can anyone successfully view this page: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/uqm-3do-data/0.6.7-0maemo/ | 16:56 |
| Flandry_ | I get a PHP error every time | 16:58 |
| CoreFusion- | is t.m.o down? | 16:59 |
| CoreFusion- | nvm | 16:59 |
| CoreFusion- | just very very slow | 16:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | ooh | 17:02 |
| timeless_mbp | i got bug 6300 :) | 17:02 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6300 http:// is converted into some strange frowny face | 17:02 |
| timeless_mbp | and i wasn't even trying | 17:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I really wish you could turn those damn smilies off. | 17:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | They don't respect the autocomplete settings, either. | 17:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Flandry_, no. | 17:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Timeout here. | 17:11 |
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| Flandry_ | No PHP error, just timeout? | 17:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | PHP error could be a timeout on another machine | 17:14 |
| sp3000 | yeah the yellow discs make it hard to tell what people are saying | 17:14 |
| Flandry_ | Yeah probably, it's a timeout PHP error, it's just consistent for this package and not my other one so i think there's something more to it. | 17:14 |
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| Flandry_ | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6301 | 17:14 |
| povbot | Bug 6301: PHP Error when trying to view package instance page to promote. | 17:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, PHP now | 17:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | the machine's overloaded. | 17:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, ho, what a surprise. | 17:15 |
| sp3000 | as if smilies were intended to be random pretty pictures >:| | 17:15 |
| xorAxAx | i like this smiley: %-) | 17:15 |
| lardman | hmm, is there a proper debian way to compile the N8x0 kernel? | 17:15 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: best way is to use sb in this case i thik | 17:17 |
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| lardman | yeah, but I was just thinking that as there's a debian dir in there, the old manual make is perhaps out the window | 17:17 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: spotted embedded/3rdparty/omap24x_lcd/kernel/omaplcd_linux.c .. fbsize is definately a bit low | 17:22 |
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| Stskeeps | (240*320*2) | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | or not.. hmm | 17:22 |
| lardman | yeah that's low | 17:22 |
| lardman | even pixels would need to be x4, so I guess it's in bytes | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:23 |
| * lardman just builds Diablo kernel as a starting point | 17:23 | |
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| Stskeeps | the good news (i guess), is that we could possibly make a display driver like omaplcd that pushes to our untraditional one instead | 17:24 |
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| lardman | yeah, I imagine that will be the way to do it | 17:25 |
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| lardman | hmm, I wonder if we'll need to fiddle with the pm stuff | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | eventually maybe | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | technically we should check on a completely non-X and none fbcon thing at some poin | 17:30 |
| lardman | yeah | 17:31 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: what are your plans for the evening? | 17:34 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Why, may I ask? | 17:34 |
| lardman | no you may not | 17:34 |
| lardman | it's a lucky dip | 17:34 |
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| qwerty12 | lardman: I asked the pimp to answer; not his bitch | 17:35 |
| lardman | lol | 17:35 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: qwerty12'll take a look at them alongside | 17:39 |
| lardman | cool | 17:39 |
| lardman | does a kernel build usually take forever? I've not done one for ages | 17:39 |
| lardman | have been sat on HOSTLD scripts/kconfig/conf forever | 17:40 |
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| till- | my kernel compilation took about 20-60 minutes, depending on the machine | 17:42 |
| lardman | hmm, just wondering if qemu has got its knickers in a twist | 17:43 |
| lardman | should be reasonably quick here - dual 2.13GHz + 4Gb of RAM and is pegged at 100% | 17:43 |
| Veggen | lardman: They don't any more, but I *can* remember doing kernel compilations on my old 386/25 in 1995, having it use about 24 hours ;) | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Veggen: Sounds unlikely. | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Veggen: unless it was swapping lots | 17:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Out of groceries one day too early. | 17:44 |
| lardman | yeah I started doing OE builds on a P2-400 w/ 64Mb of RAM, took a fair while :) | 17:44 |
| * SpeedEvil is grocery shopping monthly online. | 17:44 | |
| lbt | hi ... any council here? | 17:46 |
| lbt | VDVsx: ping... | 17:46 |
| Flandry_ | i'm a council of one. What do you need? :P | 17:46 |
| lbt | a flight booking please | 17:46 |
| lbt | since you offer :) | 17:46 |
| Flandry_ | ha | 17:46 |
| Flandry_ | wouldn't that be nice | 17:46 |
| * lbt thinks that's very geberous | 17:47 | |
| Flandry_ | leave my gebel out of this | 17:47 |
| lardman | yeah, was just locked up | 17:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, did you get the email from Quim? | 17:48 |
| VDVsx | lbt, yes | 17:48 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: no, from 'Jaffa; | 17:49 |
| VDVsx | lbt, lol, so someone hit the wrong button | 17:49 |
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| lbt | I was just asking if the were right - it's a duplicate | 17:49 |
| lbt | sure - so checking if I was accepted for Barcelona | 17:50 |
| VDVsx | lbt, so you received a email about the summit instead of one about barcelona ? | 17:51 |
| lbt | yes | 17:51 |
| lbt | I assumed it was barcelona but best check first | 17:51 |
| VDVsx | that's strange, better check with Quim | 17:51 |
| VDVsx | mine is correct :) | 17:52 |
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| lbt | Subject: Maemo - Barcelona Long Weekend registration | 17:53 |
| lbt | content:.... Summit | 17:53 |
| lbt | so who checks? the email is signed jaffa/community council | 17:54 |
| VDVsx | strange, I've "We are pleased to approve your sponsorship request[1] for the Maemo - Barcelona Long Weekend to be held on December 4th - 6th[2]." | 17:54 |
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| VDVsx | "We look forward to seeing you in Barcelona! | 17:54 |
| VDVsx | Best wishes, | 17:54 |
| VDVsx | Quim Gil" | 17:54 |
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| lardman | mmmm, honey roast peanuts | 17:55 |
| lardman | sorry, slightly ot | 17:55 |
| VDVsx | lbt, anyway check with Quim, he probably hit the wrong button :) | 17:56 |
| lbt | OK, I will | 17:57 |
| VDVsx | the requests for this event aren't approved by the council :) | 17:57 |
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| lbt | lardman: salted cashew nuts | 17:57 |
| lardman | I don;t much like cashews :) | 17:57 |
| lardman | but pecans are good | 17:57 |
| lbt | good, I'll have them | 17:57 |
| lardman | ok, I think my wife has had enough of my eating all the others and just leaving them for her anyway :) | 17:58 |
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| hrw | one thing... | 18:00 |
| hrw | DDP gaves 1 week warranty on device (which suxx). but did someone created a list of things to be checked during that week? | 18:01 |
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| bkonrath | quick question: does anyone know if hail - the accessibility implementation for hildon - works with maemo 5? | 18:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | hrw: I suppose accidental damage insurance is a prudent thing in that event. | 18:02 |
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| hrw | SpeedEvil: that other thing | 18:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Dear Customer, | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | The item below is now in stock and this portion of your order has been released for processing. | 18:05 |
| zaheerm | SpeedEvil, ddp? | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | (nokia.co.uk order - on the 20th oct | 18:06 |
| w00t_ | SpeedEvil: got it too :) | 18:07 |
| * w00t_ dances | 18:07 | |
| * SpeedEvil did not qualify for DDP - as openmoko karma diddn't count. | 18:07 | |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: you should complain more on planet.maemo.org | 18:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | hrw: I don't have the energy. | 18:07 |
| hrw | I do, thats why I had higher karma | 18:08 |
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| zaheerm | SpeedEvil, aah my order (on behalf of my cto) has got that email too | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | hrw: however - I abused discount codes. | 18:09 |
| bilboed-pi | zaheerm, you ordered one ? :) | 18:09 |
| derf | zaheerm: Your CTO being thomasvs? | 18:09 |
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| bilboed-pi | derf, *cough* :) | 18:10 |
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| zaheerm | derf, yes | 18:10 |
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| zaheerm | bilboed-pi, yes thomas had issues with nokia | 18:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm. 'Tracking information is posted to the site the following business day (Monday-Friday) after the product has shipped.' | 18:10 |
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| zaheerm | bilboed-pi, spanish site doesn't give uk keyboards, uk site doesn't accept non uk credit cards.... | 18:11 |
| bilboed-pi | reminds me... | 18:11 |
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| |R | Anyone think MobileCityOnline will actually get stock tomorrow? | 18:12 |
| hrw | zaheerm: I ordered n810 in Expansys.co.uk and paid with Polish card | 18:13 |
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| zaheerm | hrw, yes that is different to nokia itself, i think play.com would have accepted a non uk card too | 18:14 |
| VDVsx | bkonrath, not sure, better ask the developers, or someone from Igalia :) | 18:14 |
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| admiral0_ | hi guys i've got no sound on my n900 | 18:15 |
| dmj7263 | hi zaheerm | 18:16 |
| admiral0_ | any suggestion? | 18:17 |
| dmj7263 | admiral0_: What have you been doing recently with it? | 18:17 |
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| admiral0_ | just unpacked | 18:17 |
| SpeedEvil | And debit taken too. | 18:17 |
| admiral0_ | and tried to make a call | 18:17 |
| dmj7263 | so it's not working out of the box? | 18:17 |
| zaheerm | dmj7263, hiya | 18:17 |
| admiral0_ | yep | 18:17 |
| dmj7263 | hmm | 18:17 |
| admiral0_ | module seems not loaded | 18:17 |
| dmj7263 | zaheerm: Hows the zope thing coming? | 18:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | admiral0_, it's not muted, is it? | 18:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nor in silent? | 18:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | hrw, dead pixels, probably. | 18:18 |
| admiral0_ | full volume | 18:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | admiral0_, no phone ring? | 18:19 |
| admiral0_ | no | 18:19 |
| zaheerm | dmj7263, a 4 year old nephew has been in the way :) | 18:19 |
| VDVsx | general profile ? | 18:19 |
| dmj7263 | I see. | 18:19 |
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| dmj726 | zaheerm: I've been a bit busy with returning home for thanksgiving too. | 18:20 |
| lardman | qwerty12: you looking now? | 18:21 |
| dmj726 | Didn't have my computer setup again until yesterday. | 18:21 |
| lardman | need to setup a struct of some description to pass to the main driver | 18:21 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Cleaning the dust off my DIABLO_ARMEL target, yes | 18:21 |
| lardman | looks quite painful actually as their lcd driver is very heavily intertwined | 18:21 |
| bkonrath | VDVsx: thanks | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: checked the build scripts? | 18:22 |
| lardman | nah still looking at the code | 18:22 |
| VDVsx | bkonrath, the developer is probably here, but I don't know his nickname:) | 18:22 |
| dmj726 | zaheerm: Started working on a GUI for the webcomic reader app, but the backend I want to use needs zope, so I can't really hook the gui into anything until zope is on there. | 18:22 |
| admiral0_ | any idea? | 18:23 |
| bkonrath | VDVsx: ok, maybe i should post a message to the list | 18:23 |
| dmj726 | I realized the armel deb won't do much, since scratchbox is a little light on armel support for gui apps. | 18:23 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, give me a couple of days, issue i have is the pyvan is a bit buggered in scratchbox | 18:24 |
| VDVsx | bkonrath, yup, better idea | 18:24 |
| lardman | actually the display class init code is probably ok, if we can unwind it and work out exactly what the mbx wants passed to it | 18:24 |
| dmj726 | zaheerm: Thanks. | 18:25 |
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| dmj726 | by pyvan you mean python? | 18:25 |
| admiral0_ | stupid pulseaudio | 18:28 |
| admiral0_ | i am almost sure it's its fault | 18:28 |
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| hrw | GeneralAntilles: dead pixels, quality of microsd slot, internal storage etc | 18:29 |
| * mgedmin doubts admiral0_'s conclusion | 18:30 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | admiral0_, yeah, doubt that. | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | admiral0_, Nokia's got their own audio drivers. | 18:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | admiral0_, if you think it's that, reflash it. | 18:30 |
| admiral0_ | alsamixer: libpulse.c: Connection refused | 18:31 |
| AndrewFBlack | I got 3 movies with the digital movie copy with them only to find out that the digial copy only players on devies with drm thats lame back to ripping my movies again I guess | 18:31 |
| admiral0_ | a wiki to reflash? | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~flashing | 18:31 |
| infobot | methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 18:31 |
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| admiral0_ | danke | 18:31 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: you see the X modifications there anywhere? | 18:36 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: no, not in this part | 18:37 |
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| lardman | ah ok | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | we can move on to x mods when we have this part going | 18:37 |
| lardman | yeah, was just looking at the build scripts | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | maybe in style of fbdev from fremantle | 18:37 |
| admiral0_ | 8 mon till download complete | 18:38 |
| admiral0_ | min* | 18:38 |
| toggles_w | how does dell end up shipping before amazon??? | 18:40 |
| * toggles_w is not happy | 18:40 | |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo ph5 | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | (sent you an mail earlier) | 18:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre__, triage bug #6272 yet? ;) | 18:45 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail | 18:45 |
| pH5 | hi Stskeeps, yeah, just downloading the archive. | 18:46 |
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| microlith | man, fuck chase credit and fuck nokia usa | 18:47 |
| lardman | hmm, I think I'm going to try ignoring their fb/lcd code and look at what the kernel driver needs to be passed when it's init'd | 18:48 |
| * lardman has to pop to the shops quickly | 18:48 | |
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| mgedmin | not a very descriptive bug title | 18:53 |
| wazd | maemo 5 file copy pop-up is really frustrating | 18:53 |
| admiral0_ | fuck it | 18:53 |
| * mgedmin never seen it | 18:53 | |
| admiral0_ | it was the italian firmware | 18:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, indeed. | 18:54 |
| admiral0_ | i was really really scared | 18:54 |
| hrw | #1 | 18:54 |
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| qwerty12 | bug #1 | 18:54 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it | 18:54 |
| qwerty12 | How lame | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | bug #2 | 18:55 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 Static linking under SDK-PC does not work | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 18:55 |
| Xisdibik | good morning maemoers | 18:55 |
| hrw | Xisdibik: not so good but morning | 18:55 |
| Xisdibik | why not so good hrw ? | 18:55 |
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| mgedmin | heh, maemo's bug #1 is easier to fix than ubuntu's bug #1 | 18:57 |
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| microlith | why does nokia force you to go through their phone system for orders until you own a phone | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia USA is such a joke. | 19:03 |
| microlith | horrible joke | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | They just need to axe the whole department and start from scratch. | 19:03 |
| Vulcanis | or just axe it | 19:03 |
| Vulcanis | put the money elsewhere | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia's failure to sell phones in the US is completely and entirely deserved. | 19:04 |
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| Vulcanis | their normal phones aren't that great from what I've seen... their tablets and smartphones aren't marketed well enough | 19:05 |
| frals | im pretty much in love with nokia sweden since they decided not to ship any n900s until version "1.1" is released | 19:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Their normal phones are better than Samsung's normal phones. | 19:05 |
| Vulcanis | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, not the verizon ones :\ | 19:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, yeah, pretty silly. | 19:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, can't you get it from another reseller, though? | 19:05 |
| qwerty12 | frals: Get those bank robbers to target Nokia Sweden | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | That'll teach 'em | 19:06 |
| frals | i could order it from finland, but warranties and stuff usually gets pretty fubar then | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, what about Amazon or the local equivalent? | 19:06 |
| frals | no resellers are getting any until nokia sweden "releases" the hold on it it seems | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 19:06 |
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| qwerty12 | frals: Are you even on 3? :) | 19:07 |
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| frals | nope | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | Ouch | 19:07 |
| frals | thats the best part, you can't get one even if you acknowledge you know it might not work for you | 19:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | frals, well, supposedly 1.1 should be out next month. | 19:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully it wont be more than a few weeks. | 19:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | The retail firmware is already pretty old. | 19:07 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: hopefully is good word | 19:08 |
| frals | aye, ive come to the point where it doesnt really matter anymore, wouldve been nice to be able to test and get mms working soon, but meh :P | 19:08 |
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| microlith | what the hell | 19:13 |
| zaheerm | my credit card company declined my transaction | 19:13 |
| zaheerm | and called me up for security | 19:14 |
| zaheerm | nokia cancelled my order | 19:14 |
| zaheerm | had to re-do the order | 19:14 |
| Klowner | ohh :( | 19:14 |
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| microlith | the order I just tried to place with my debit card was -instantly- denied | 19:14 |
| microlith | and they're saying some bullshit about 3 business days | 19:14 |
| mgedmin | huh? | 19:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | microlith: multiple transactions? | 19:15 |
| microlith | SpeedEvil: all of which should have been terminated at this point | 19:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Irritating | 19:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | help? | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php | 19:17 |
| timeless_mbp | could someone please explain which thing i want if i want a vmware image of an sdk? | 19:18 |
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| lcuk | timeless http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, none of them? | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | garage doesn't seem to be particularly responsive | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're all old, aren't they? | 19:19 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: interpid one | 19:19 |
| lcuk | the vmware is not provided directly as a vmware image (its outside the scope of system update) | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: there are a bunch of those | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | do i want the server one? | 19:19 |
| timeless_mbp | why is the server one so much smaller? | 19:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | No desktop, maybe? | 19:20 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image one is what I used (two parts one) | 19:20 |
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| lcuk | since the gui installer works nicely, you can happily grab a debian/ubuntu vmware image and install the sdk directly into that | 19:20 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: i love how they don't have datestamps | 19:20 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: i'm incredibly lazy :) | 19:20 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip ones | 19:20 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: then do apt-get update/upgrade in sbox | 19:21 |
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| hrw | timeless_mbp: works with virtualbox | 19:21 |
| Xisdibik | alright GeneralAntilles did you break talk.maemo.org? | 19:21 |
| lcuk | timeless, +1 you arent the only one | 19:21 |
| timeless_mbp | but that's "prefinal" | 19:21 |
| hrw | especially when I compiled virtualbox image additions under it | 19:21 |
| Xisdibik | nvm its loading now | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xisdibik, muahaha! | 19:21 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: you can update it to final... | 19:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey, where in the vmware sdk image does it say "user = maemo; password = maemo" ? | 19:27 |
| JosefAssad | t.m.o is a bit odd today | 19:27 |
| JosefAssad | or, now. | 19:27 |
| timeless_mbp | is that unusual? | 19:28 |
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| JosefAssad | well. maemo.org is loading faster than t.m.o. maemo.org loading faster than anything is news | 19:28 |
| |R | t.m.o doesn't even load for me right now | 19:29 |
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| JosefAssad | indeedy | 19:30 |
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| GAN900 | Ugh | 19:31 |
| GAN900 | Why is Haze completely and utterly broken? | 19:31 |
| VDVsx | konttori, hey | 19:31 |
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| konttori | hey | 19:32 |
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| VDVsx | konttori, I tried canola in the other day and the contact are shown when I press a key o_0 | 19:32 |
| konttori | yeah, issue in enlightment | 19:32 |
| konttori | they are not grabbing the input. | 19:33 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 19:33 | |
| konttori | anyway, fixed in fremantle (latest) | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, anyone remember why i was supposed to kick konttori ? :) | 19:33 |
| konttori | not me | 19:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think i do | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | stick around for a minute :) | 19:33 |
| VDVsx | konttori, ah, because you said that nothing happens with your newer image :P | 19:33 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: bug 2899 | 19:35 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2899 List of hardware keyboard layouts is not expandable | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | claiming that something is fixed because a third party package can replace a system component | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | is not a valid "FIXED" | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't even "WORKSFORME" | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | it's "WORKAROUNDAVAILABLE" | 19:35 |
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| konttori | lol | 19:36 |
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| * timeless_mbp kicks konttori | 19:37 | |
| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, ins't the bug about extend the list of available kb, like support for some sort of plugins system ? | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks for sticking around | 19:37 |
| VDVsx | seems valid for me :P | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | VDVsx: yes | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | the bug is perfectly valid | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | but it is not at all fixed | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | which is my point | 19:37 |
| timeless_mbp | hence my desire to kick konttori | 19:38 |
| VDVsx | so, now you can extend the keyboard list ? | 19:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | no | 19:38 |
| VDVsx | the kb in extras-testing is the proof :P | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | you can't | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't | 19:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it replaces the control panel | 19:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | that's not expanding it | 19:38 |
| konttori | I asked input method guys to take a look at a better solution | 19:38 |
| konttori | (like 2 mins ago) | 19:38 |
| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, ah, right ;) | 19:39 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: thanks | 19:39 |
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| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, btw, I can't edit some values in microB about:conf, did you saw that bug ? | 19:40 |
| paroneayea | zaheerm: yeah, I had the same problem with the online nokia store too... twice. | 19:41 |
| paroneayea | and then they didn't let me order from there any more because my card was flagged, apparently I would have to do it over the phone | 19:41 |
| paroneayea | so I gave up and ordered on amazon | 19:41 |
| zaheerm | paroneayea, it means your order goes to the back of the queue :( | 19:41 |
| paroneayea | then canceled my amazon order when it came in to the chicago nokia store and picked one up directly ;) | 19:42 |
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| zaheerm | paroneayea, is it already in store for non-preorder customers there? | 19:42 |
| paroneayea | yep | 19:42 |
| dmj726 | paroneayea: How much? | 19:44 |
| paroneayea | dmj726: $560 USD | 19:44 |
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| dmj726 | $560 at Nokia Store? | 19:44 |
| paroneayea | and there's some rebate thingy in the box | 19:44 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 19:44 |
| dmj726 | So 510 after rebate? | 19:44 |
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| paroneayea | it ended up being about 1200-something after tax | 19:45 |
| paroneayea | but yeah | 19:45 |
| zaheerm | 1200 ? | 19:45 |
| dmj726 | ? | 19:45 |
| zaheerm | for 2? | 19:45 |
| paroneayea | yeah | 19:45 |
| paroneayea | my wife and I both got one | 19:45 |
| microlith | wow | 19:45 |
| microlith | nokia can go die in a fire | 19:45 |
| paroneayea | I will note that she is a non-hacker and she is equally pleased with the device | 19:46 |
| zaheerm | microlith, they still won't accept your order? | 19:46 |
| microlith | zaheerm: I told 'em to just cancel all orders | 19:46 |
| zaheerm | paroneayea, yah my wife has one too (6 month loaner) and she loves it being a non-hacker | 19:46 |
| microlith | wasted my time for four months only to fuck me over in the end | 19:46 |
| microlith | why is nokia still showing a preorder with headset on their site? | 19:47 |
| timeless_mbp | VDVsx: i saw it earlier, i thought i assigned it to someone | 19:47 |
| paroneayea | microlith: yeah, the key is to *not* order through nokia's shitty online store :P | 19:47 |
| timeless_mbp | we were actually talking about it just a few minutes ago | 19:47 |
| paroneayea | the woman on the phone even told me: | 19:47 |
| paroneayea | "we recommend that people do this on the phone instead of using our online store" | 19:48 |
| paroneayea | "because it is very finnicky" | 19:48 |
| microlith | their phone service is worse | 19:48 |
| microlith | because I can't understand what they're mumbling | 19:48 |
| timeless_mbp | paroneayea: finnicky is like finnishy :) | 19:48 |
| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, it's very strange because I remember to modify values in one of the earlier images (perhaps only strings) | 19:48 |
| zaheerm | i tried calling, was on hold for 45 minutes to nokia UK and still got through to noone | 19:48 |
| microlith | oddly enough, everyone else has online ordering down to a fucking artform | 19:48 |
| timeless_mbp | VDVsx: those tend to be event/focus related | 19:48 |
| timeless_mbp | it's definitely possible for us to regress them | 19:49 |
| timeless_mbp | don't feel surprised | 19:49 |
| VDVsx | :) | 19:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, gotta love Windows users trying to do graphics editing. | 19:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Let me just load up MS Paint here." | 19:49 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: um | 19:49 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, we're collectively getting dinner | 19:49 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: MS Paint is good to draw icons | 19:49 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU | 19:49 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, use liqbase :) | 19:49 |
| hrw | paroneayea: she is fine with device now. ask her after month | 19:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, yes, you can also do that with magic markers, it's hardly recommended, though. | 19:50 |
| hrw | ~curse ddp | 19:50 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ddp ! | 19:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, and only the very exceptional sorts can manage it. :) | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | hrw: well I certainly will ask her after a month, however | 19:51 |
| paroneayea | she isn't 'fine' with it, she is 'incredibly enthused' | 19:51 |
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| hrw | paroneayea: is she geek? | 19:53 |
| dmj726 | if you want the mona lisa, use mypaint | 19:54 |
| paroneayea | hrw: nope | 19:54 |
| BBNS | tmo has been pretty crazy slow for a day ... mmm o_o | 19:54 |
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| Flandry_ | Quick question: what exactly goes in the XSBC-Bugtracker field of control files? I have a bugtracker entry for my app, but don't know what should go in the field. | 19:58 |
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| Flandry_ | gah nevermind | 19:59 |
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| * Flandry_ gives himself a swift kick to the rear | 20:00 | |
| zaheerm | BBNS, all these new people with a retail n900 :) | 20:00 |
| Ceron^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk ALLRIGHT | 20:01 |
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| inz | Does google wave work with N900? | 20:02 |
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| zaheerm | inz, yes | 20:02 |
| inz | I tried with N810, and it crashed just about right away after it loaded | 20:02 |
| inz | cool | 20:02 |
| |R | inz: check youtube :) | 20:02 |
| inz | |R, nah, I like text based better | 20:03 |
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| |R | inz: well then check youtube through AA lib, there is a wave/n900 video :P | 20:04 |
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| inz | |R, if I get the answer from here with one question within a minute, why would I load my flash-enabled browser, look up a video, watch the video to find out the end result | 20:05 |
| inz | This works much better; IRC ftw!-) | 20:05 |
| |R | hehe | 20:05 |
| |R | but ascii art is beautiful! :P | 20:05 |
| VDVsx | Flandry_, bugtracker URL | 20:06 |
| Flandry_ | yeah i looked at another pkg | 20:06 |
| |R | anyway, i really hope i get my N900 shipped tomorrow :/ | 20:06 |
| Flandry_ | thanks :) | 20:06 |
| hrw | |R: ;) | 20:07 |
| * hrw gaves up on ddp | 20:08 | |
| zaheerm | t.m.o is very slow | 20:08 |
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| BBNS | zaheerm: =] that's a good sign! | 20:08 |
| hrw | zaheerm: it is normal speed | 20:08 |
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| Flandry_ | Time for my daily RFT (request for testers): http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/ | 20:13 |
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| BluesLee | i read that some customers from us will get their preordered n900 this week, but what is the situation in europe? | 20:19 |
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| zaheerm | BluesLee, theoretically this week | 20:20 |
| zaheerm | BluesLee, but in practise, only God knows :) | 20:20 |
| BluesLee | zaheerm: a further delay would be really bad | 20:21 |
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| zaheerm | BluesLee, tell that to nokia's retail dept :) | 20:22 |
| microlith | heh | 20:22 |
| zaheerm | i believe it's all in their hands | 20:22 |
| microlith | fuck nokia | 20:22 |
| qwerty12 | Fuck them yourself | 20:22 |
| microlith | good hardware, incompetent shipping | 20:22 |
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| microlith | or rather, retail operations | 20:23 |
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| hrw | BluesLee: nokia and selling tablets... | 20:23 |
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| hrw | BluesLee: I will not be surprised if official nokia shop in Poland still does not know what n900 is. | 20:24 |
| BluesLee | hi hrw, greetings to pozna | 20:24 |
| * kynky got his n900 order processing email at 3.53 (order at nokia retail uk) | 20:24 | |
| BluesLee | i will not wait a further month | 20:25 |
| BluesLee | good news | 20:25 |
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| hrw | BluesLee: I live in Szczecin | 20:25 |
| kynky | preordered on october 20th | 20:25 |
| kynky | not got express delivery though :( | 20:25 |
| lcuk | kynky, cool they are working so late to get the orders out! | 20:26 |
| BluesLee | hrw: i dont know that city | 20:26 |
| kynky | lcuk, sweet | 20:26 |
| lcuk | or was that pm | 20:26 |
| zaheerm | lcuk, 3.53 isn't late ;) | 20:26 |
| * w00t_ has express delivery \o/ | 20:26 | |
| lcuk | zaheerm, on my 24h clock it is | 20:27 |
| zaheerm | lcuk, or early ;) | 20:27 |
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| kynky | hopefully in my hand between weds and fri | 20:27 |
| hrw | bye | 20:27 |
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| lcuk | hi n bye hrw | 20:27 |
| lcuk | zaheerm, indeed | 20:27 |
| BluesLee | i preordered mine from amazon.de | 20:28 |
| BluesLee | but got no informations yet | 20:28 |
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| BluesLee | preorder date 19.9 | 20:29 |
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| wao | eh | 20:30 |
| wao | amazon bit sucks with these preorders :( | 20:30 |
| microlith | not as bad as nokia | 20:31 |
| microlith | heh | 20:31 |
| kynky | well you wouldexpect nokia to fulfill nokia order first, then nokia retail partners (aka mpd), then amazon etc (at a guess) | 20:32 |
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| BluesLee | we will see | 20:33 |
| BluesLee | maybe christmas | 20:33 |
| BluesLee | :-) | 20:33 |
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| Ufoeke | anyone who knows if the phone service providers lock the n900 ? or are you have to buy it unlocked ? | 20:48 |
| RST38h | t.m.o rip? | 20:49 |
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| RST38h | have to buy unlocked, afaik, at least for now | 20:49 |
| andre__ | yeah, dead | 20:49 |
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| Ufoeke | i wanna have dual sim card in it one for internet and one for the phone services ^^ | 20:50 |
| xorAxAx | will you wear your n900 in your jeans pocket? | 20:50 |
| xorAxAx | Ufoeke: also a dual radio? | 20:51 |
| Juzna | does anyone have properly working smtp ssl connection on maemo 5 | 20:51 |
| Ufoeke | xorAxAx i will switch between the cards if the "dual sim" tool will work | 20:51 |
| RST38h | Ufoeke: N900 only has one sim card slot | 20:51 |
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| xorAxAx | how will you carry your n900? | 20:52 |
| xorAxAx | its a bit bulky for the trousers' pocket | 20:52 |
| Ufoeke | not more bulky then an iphone | 20:53 |
| jaw_vvd | hey, does n900 come with a system shell for ssh etc? | 20:53 |
| Ufoeke | i will use a dual sim card adapter to get it to work i hope ^^ | 20:53 |
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| ds3 | 7 | 20:56 |
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| penguinbait | 8 | 20:57 |
| comawhite | 9 | 20:57 |
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| Ufoeke | Nokia N900 110.9mm × 59.8mm × 18mm Iphone 3GS 115.5mm x 62.1mm x 12,3mm not so much differense | 20:57 |
| xorAxAx | thicker | 20:59 |
| penguinbait | thats what she said | 21:00 |
| zaheerm | official | 21:02 |
| zaheerm | o2 uk cust service suck more than nokia sales | 21:02 |
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| zaheerm | my mum has gone abroad for 3 weeks, she doesn't pick up calls but anyone that leaves a voicemail it will be charged the roaming rate (even if she doesn't pick up) | 21:03 |
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| zaheerm | i called to turn it off, they can't do it..has to be done on the handset | 21:03 |
| zaheerm | then checked with cust service if the country she's gone to will allow it to be done on the handset | 21:04 |
| zaheerm | and they said no | 21:04 |
| zaheerm | so i'm screwed either way | 21:04 |
| Ufoeke | hmm when i worked at a phone company we just "reseted" location where the phone where last time the person had it on | 21:05 |
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| [dmp]_ | "Using SDK on X86_64 is not supported, but you can install it anyway" the installer says. Does it mean, that Nokia dont official support it, or that it simply wont work? | 21:10 |
| Juzna | pfft | 21:11 |
| Juzna | still wondering why this smtps fails | 21:11 |
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| BBNS | [dmp]_: i think it's simply won't work because qemu and other stuffs. | 21:13 |
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| dabozz | maemo.org is quite slow at the moment... | 21:14 |
| [dmp]_ | BBNS: Thanks. Ill try to look for anohter solution then :) | 21:15 |
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| * RST38h moos | 21:16 | |
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| PaulFertser | Hey :) (/me greets inhabitants in a seemingly friendly way) | 21:20 |
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| PaulFertser | Did anyone try to provide additional external power to the USB host of n810? | 21:21 |
| Cr0n_ | I need to take pictures from the command line in the n810, which would be the simplest way? | 21:21 |
| *** hrw|gone is now known as hrw | 21:21 | |
| hrw | re | 21:21 |
| PaulFertser | I mean is it safe, won't the internal converter be damaged? | 21:21 |
| hrw | Cr0n_: run xterm and use load-applet for taking photos | 21:21 |
| RST38h | Assume it is not safe | 21:22 |
| PaulFertser | Is a simple kernel patch to make it think it has more power enough for that scheme to work? | 21:22 |
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| RST38h | Given that it is not your standard PC USB controller | 21:22 |
| hrw | PaulFertser: use non-cheap-chinese powered usbhub | 21:22 |
| andre__ | Cr0n_, there was something like "screenshot-tool -t 20 filename.foo" or similar. no idea if installed by default though :-/ | 21:22 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: ok, how do i know for sure? I'd really need to do that. | 21:22 |
| PaulFertser | hrw: why can't i provide power right on the bus? | 21:22 |
| RST38h | Paul: You know for sure by trying it and burning your N8x0 out | 21:22 |
| andre__ | Cr0n_, argh.... pictures not screenshots? damn, i"m out | 21:22 |
| Juzna | is there any way to debug n900 mail client | 21:22 |
| Juzna | it would be nice to get more specific error | 21:22 |
| hrw | PaulFertser: because you do not want to fry half of n810 | 21:22 |
| RST38h | Paul: If this approach is not feasible, I would go with a cheap chinese powered usb hub | 21:22 |
| Juzna | because this aint working | 21:22 |
| Cr0n_ | I will try, thanks | 21:23 |
| PaulFertser | hrw: it's a serious claim. | 21:23 |
| PaulFertser | hrw: but is it really backed up by anything? | 21:23 |
| RST38h | Paukl: No. | 21:23 |
| hrw | RST38h: cheap chinese powered usb hubs push power to usb host too | 21:23 |
| RST38h | Paul: You should definitely try it to prove hrw wrong. | 21:24 |
| RST38h | hrw: Ah! Non-cheap then! | 21:24 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: i could do that after i take a look at the schematics. | 21:24 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: come on, you know what i'm talking about. | 21:24 |
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| RST38h | Yea. And I would never try it on my hardware. | 21:24 |
| RST38h | Because even if you somehow get external schematics and make sure they are ok, there is no way to tell what is going on inside the SoC | 21:25 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: i'm not fear to do that with my own gta02 (openmoko freerunner) because i know for sure it won't fry anything, i've read the converter datasheet etc. | 21:25 |
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| PaulFertser | RST38h: SoC doesn't care about the power, it cares only about D+ D-. And controls power by GPIO's. Probably it toggles a single gpio that enables the Vsys->Vusb converter. | 21:25 |
| timeless | so.. | 21:26 |
| timeless | stupid question | 21:26 |
| timeless | is the sdk based on sbox? | 21:27 |
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| PaulFertser | I want to ask an advice of anybody who knows n810 hardware... | 21:27 |
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| hrw | timeless: yes :( | 21:28 |
| RST38h | Paul: Wrong place. | 21:28 |
| PaulFertser | RST38h: could you possibly be so nice to suggest me a better one? | 21:28 |
| PaulFertser | (ah, no _that_ much sarcasm intended) | 21:28 |
| hrw | PaulFertser: officially probably no one here knows n810 hardware | 21:28 |
| PaulFertser | hrw: and unofficially? | 21:28 |
| RST38h | Paul: no (no sarcasm) | 21:28 |
| RST38h | Even Nokians frequenting this channel are software guys | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: could you explain the weird setup of N8x0 framebuffer/blizzard stuff in a sentence? | 21:29 |
| PaulFertser | E.g. it's probably possible for Stskeeps being a nokia employee to have a quick glance over schematics or a quick chat with a hw guy? | 21:29 |
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| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: i'm not a nokia employee. | 21:29 |
| RST38h | Sts: Yea | 21:29 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: ah, right, but you have some connections, do not you? | 21:29 |
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| RST38h | Sts: That is called on-demand LCD refresh | 21:29 |
| luke-jr | PaulFertser: unofficially, I think the schematics were leaked on the web | 21:30 |
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| * timeless throws a parsing exception at paul | 21:30 | |
| RST38h | Sts: You want something more elaborate? | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yes, - does blizzard have a seperate framebuffer? | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it's to deal with MBX drivers, so | 21:30 |
| RST38h | Of course it does | 21:30 |
| PaulFertser | timeless: lol, there's no exceptions in C, except for hardware but all of those are trapped :p | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2009/10/my-first-day-as-maemoorg-distmaster.html | 21:30 |
| PaulFertser | luke-jr: thanks, i'll try to look them up | 21:30 |
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| timeless | paul: i'm a student of w32 | 21:31 |
| timeless | we've always had SEH | 21:31 |
| RST38h | Sts: Basically, you tell Blizzard to start updating, it initiates DMA access to get image from your buffer in SDRAM into its internal frame buffer. All this time, it is going to use that internal frame buffer (with right scaling factors) to update the LCD | 21:31 |
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| PaulFertser | My guess is that feeding external 5V power should most probably be safe, it'd say it's 90% probability it's safe. :) | 21:31 |
| RST38h | Sts: This scheme is very very common among LCD controllers. Most Nokia Symbian/S60 phones use it for example | 21:32 |
| PaulFertser | timeless: heard about it. Managed to almost avoid w32 mess in my life. | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: right, so the sdram buffer is not omapfb for instance | 21:32 |
| RST38h | correct | 21:32 |
| RST38h | noting to do with internal omap2 buffer | 21:32 |
| timeless | w32 is a lot cleaner than most alternatives | 21:32 |
| RST38h | (which is at 0x06000000 if I remember correctly) | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: both are accessible from normal kernel space? | 21:33 |
| RST38h | Sts: Probably | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | k | 21:33 |
| * RST38h isn't sure about the linux stuff | 21:33 | |
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| Stskeeps | stupid question would be, is omapfb even enabled on normal n8x0 kernels? :P | 21:35 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: Well, the ioctl()s I am using come from omapfb | 21:37 |
| RST38h | I suspect the driver has simply been extended to support N8x0 video setup | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so the omapfb driver may simply be redirected to the blizzard fb instead | 21:38 |
| PaulFertser | timeless: if to use a message queue (like SysV or posix message queues) you need to create a window that is actually not a window and use callbacks etc etc i can't call it clean ;) | 21:39 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 21:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | you're welcome to call it whatever you like | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | api stability in w32 is a lot better than most platforms | 21:40 |
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| Cr0n_ | I need to take pictures of web cam using command line.The scrennshot-tool is so for screenshot's and not shot. | 21:40 |
| Cr0n_ | Anybody know any other program | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | the only platforms i can think of that is better is solaris | 21:40 |
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| Cr0n_ | I need to take pictures of web cam using command line.The scrennshot-tool is so for screenshot's and not shot. | 21:40 |
| Cr0n_ | Anybody know any other program | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and that's limited by the mess that is gnome | 21:40 |
| timeless_mbp | Cr0n_: to take a picture of the web cam, you'll need a second camera | 21:40 |
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| PaulFertser | timeless: api stability leads to the nonsence called w32 api which is a complete mess of all the techniques, bugs and mis-features ms collects over the years. I do not think anyone actually likes it. | 21:41 |
| timeless_mbp | are you using the n800 or the n810? | 21:41 |
| Cr0n_ | n810 | 21:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Cr0n_: free advice: always mention that when you describe your problem | 21:41 |
| timeless_mbp | the natural assumption at this point is that people would ask about the n900 | 21:41 |
| * RST38h sighs | 21:41 | |
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| RST38h | hello javispedro | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | lo javispedro | 21:41 |
| javispedro | moo | 21:41 |
| javispedro | yeah, saw the payload Sts :) | 21:42 |
| xorAxAx | does the n900 offer access to STK menus? | 21:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | stk? | 21:43 |
| xorAxAx | sim toolkit | 21:43 |
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| xorAxAx | the sim card menu that was built by e.g. the network operator | 21:43 |
| Cr0n_ | timesless_mbp: I need a program similar to fswebcam, command line to take picture on n810 | 21:43 |
| xorAxAx | to offer special features | 21:44 |
| andre__ | like? | 21:44 |
| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: not out of the box | 21:44 |
| RST38h | "Christian Scientists push to insert practice of turning to God for healing into reform legislation." | 21:44 |
| mardi__ | Anyone in the UK have their N900 pre-order cancelled by shop.nokia.co.uk - could they post here : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=387472#post387472 | 21:44 |
| xorAxAx | RST38h: are you a markov news bot? | 21:45 |
| xorAxAx | timeless_mbp: a pity | 21:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: it's really critical to you? | 21:45 |
| xorAxAx | timeless_mbp: the dual sim adapter i want to try requires it | 21:45 |
| xorAxAx | for settings | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | mardi__: not loading. I've recieved an email saying 'stock now available, processing your order' | 21:45 |
| mardi__ | so did I, and then followed by email saying cancelled | 21:46 |
| hrw | xorAxAx: probably can forget about it working. but I am pesimist here | 21:46 |
| mardi__ | site is a bit swamped as appears to have happened to a few people | 21:46 |
| xorAxAx | is the sim card easy to exchange? | 21:46 |
| andre__ | xorAxAx: after opening the backcover and removing the battery: yes | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | mardi__: did you order using money off codes? And how soon after ? | 21:47 |
| lcuk | sure, just send a form in triplicate to Nokia HQ, your service provider and your parents | 21:47 |
| xorAxAx | andre__: so like in every other mobile :) | 21:47 |
| andre__ | hmm. yeah :-) | 21:47 |
| * hrw starts to write another complaining post | 21:47 | |
| SpeedEvil | mardi__: and they've charged card. | 21:47 |
| timeless_mbp | 'exchange'? | 21:47 |
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| xorAxAx | switch | 21:47 |
| timeless_mbp | sure you walk to your operator and ask for a replacement | 21:47 |
| mardi__ | just quidco and only a week ago | 21:47 |
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| mardi__ | sounds good for you if they have hit your card SpeedEvil | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | mardi__: ordered 20th Oct. with 3* money off codes, through quidco. | 21:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: so, do you know of anyone who has written an STK host for linux? | 21:49 |
| SpeedEvil | err - topcasback | 21:49 |
| xorAxAx | timeless_mbp: no | 21:49 |
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| hrw | can someone remind me - how many people got DDP offer? | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | everyone with >= 200 karma | 21:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrw: so, i'm confused | 21:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i have this thing | 21:50 |
| timeless_mbp | where's the scratchbox? | 21:50 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: 100? 200? 300 people? | 21:50 |
| xorAxAx | Stskeeps: which karma? | 21:50 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: I am wrong person to ask about maemo sdk | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | maemo.org karma | 21:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://maemo.org/profile/list/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nehmer_account_list_page=7 | 21:51 |
| timeless_mbp | shows where 200 karma ends today | 21:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | but the cutoff was some other day | 21:51 |
| javispedro | wow | 21:52 |
| javispedro | it's growing fast. | 21:52 |
| RST38h | ohmygod | 21:52 |
| RST38h | pupnik and rm_you have not made it! | 21:52 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd be roughly 200 if it were today | 21:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | i presume Nokians weren't offered DDP | 21:52 |
| javispedro | pupnik got loan though | 21:53 |
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| timeless_mbp | amusingly enough jaaksi has karma 200 | 21:53 |
| RST38h | revdkathy actually leads pupnik! | 21:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | hrw, in the vicinity of 180. | 21:53 |
| slonopotamus | does t.m.o work at all? | 21:53 |
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| * RST38h takes out a checkered flag and chants "go, pupnik, go" | 21:53 | |
| javispedro | no, it has been slashdotted to hell with hordes of people wanting to refresh "has it shipped yet" thread. | 21:54 |
| VDVsx | http://blogs.computerworld.com/15136/apple_voids_applecare_warranty_for_smokers ->> | 21:54 |
| VDVsx | hhiih | 21:54 |
| VDVsx | great excuse :) | 21:54 |
| slonopotamus | javispedro, argh. i want to read my private message. | 21:54 |
| derf | Well, you've got to expect that people will karma whore after you make a DDP based solely on karma. | 21:54 |
| javispedro | slonopotamus: be thanful you got the email copy of it ;) | 21:55 |
| RST38h | derf: no shit | 21:55 |
| javispedro | hm... where's my spell checker gone? | 21:55 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: has been circulating for a couple of days now | 21:55 |
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| derf | So yeah, I'd be very surprised if that list hadn't grown substantially. | 21:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, I've repaired machines used by smokers. It's often an unpleasant experience, but easily solved by something as simple as a cloth rag wrapped around your face. ;) | 21:55 |
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| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ugh | 21:56 |
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| RST38h | General: Is it possible to make smokers wrap cloth around their faces instead? | 21:56 |
| Proteous | I've had to do that too. super nasty stuff | 21:56 |
| RST38h | I mean, with legislation? | 21:56 |
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| Proteous | mKes you sick when you wonder what the smokers lungs must look like | 21:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, yes, let's hope it doesn't go that far, though. ;) | 21:57 |
| derf | I'm sure someone would argue that violates one of those pesky Bill of Rights amendments. | 21:57 |
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| RST38h | fire hazard, yes | 21:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Proteous, I had a coworker who'd smoked a packa a day for 40 years. | 21:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Used to cough up little tar balls every few weeks. | 21:57 |
| RST38h | derf: Bill of rights does not explicitely mention smokers, I think =) | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 21:58 |
| derf | RST38h: Probably the "cruel and unusual" clause. | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | according to my math, there are 20 nokians in the top 200 | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | so 10% :) | 21:58 |
| javispedro | btw, I was wondering. will anyone from Nokia/maemo.org be in BCN airport on friday 4 and guide everybody, will everybody go on their own... ? | 21:58 |
| RST38h | derf: Oh, true | 21:58 |
| javispedro | how does that usually go? | 21:58 |
| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, they are karma whores :) | 21:58 |
| * VDVsx hides | 21:58 | |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, that reminds me, I still need to figure out where I'm staying Sunday night. . . . | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: http://maemo.org/profile/list/category/bugzilla_reported/ | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: standard pattern is that some groups of people meet up and then go into the wild themselves | 21:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, yeah, noticed. | 21:59 |
| javispedro | ah, interesting. | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not trying very hard | 21:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I need to go do a few more rounds of Extras-testing Testing. ;) | 21:59 |
| RST38h | which reminds me: Maemo meetup tomorrow at 19:30 | 21:59 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, most of us will be at the hotel on Friday | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: i want to get ukeyboard into bugzilla | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | so i can file bugs :) | 21:59 |
| * javispedro was planning to be here on airport and do something useful someday :) | 21:59 | |
| VDVsx | javispedro, you can meet us that the hotel | 22:00 |
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| zaheerm | javispedro, i can help you but i land really late | 22:00 |
| zaheerm | javispedro, i lived in barcelona for 18 months | 22:00 |
| javispedro | zaheerm: I was thinking the opposite, I am a local | 22:00 |
| zaheerm | aaah :) | 22:00 |
| * GeneralAntilles is getting in at 7:45 Friday morning. | 22:01 | |
| zaheerm | i am semi-local but never set foot in cornella | 22:01 |
| javispedro | i plan to go there this weekend and get a feel of the area | 22:01 |
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| *** BBNS_ is now known as BBNS | 22:02 | |
| zaheerm | derf, i heard people got the theora dsp stuff working on their n900 devices, you heard anything of any packages created for fremantle? | 22:02 |
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| pwnguin | anyone set up their own Mozilla weave server? | 22:04 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: so... i'm planning to call Mexico City shortly :) | 22:04 |
| Shapeshifter | Guys, is there a hildonized theme for Qt in the repos? Or any other way to enable such a theme? There's no qtconfig apparently. | 22:05 |
| derf | zaheerm: No, I haven't. | 22:06 |
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| Hrww | http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/11/23/ddp-does-it-has-any-sense/ | 22:07 |
| RST38h | no, it makes no sense | 22:08 |
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| RST38h | but we knew that already | 22:08 |
| frals | pwnguin: yeah i did, used the minimal one | 22:09 |
| *** Hrww is now known as hrw | 22:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 22:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrww, the obviousness of your conclusions leads me to believe you're karma whoring. *g* | 22:10 |
| pwnguin | frals: still using it? | 22:10 |
| frals | yeah | 22:10 |
| pwnguin | frals: got it working with fennec? | 22:11 |
| frals | not tried :o | 22:11 |
| pwnguin | im wondering if there's a huge versioning problem given it's all in beta | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | pwnguin: i'd hope not | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | but irc.mozilla.org #weave should be the place to ask | 22:13 |
| pwnguin | timeless_mbp: well, the standalone is more of a development testing server | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | so? | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't think they'll support you? | 22:13 |
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| pwnguin | i think they might not have a consistent set of compatible versions, or if they do, it's a rapidly moving target | 22:13 |
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| frals | im syncing my firefox on laptop/workstation fine anyway, read something about their google group about problems with fennec but seemed resolved in the nightly builds | 22:14 |
| derf | "Previous developer programs were better at handling users" <- Hahahahaha. | 22:14 |
| xorAxAx | does the n900 have a stopwatch and alarms? | 22:14 |
| RST38h | derf: they have no idea, have they? | 22:14 |
| Juzna | err | 22:14 |
| julianoliver | Maemo 5 (as seen on my new N900) is great. it looks and plays well. congrats all. i will be targeting this OS with my own projects. | 22:14 |
| * RST38h remembers ordering via NokiaUSA | 22:15 | |
| Stskeeps | julianoliver: cool :) welcome in the ecosystem | 22:15 |
| Juzna | julianoliver: have you made smtp over ssl work? | 22:15 |
| derf | How many months after release were the DDP N810's shipped? | 22:15 |
| RST38h | 4-5 | 22:16 |
| hrw | nice | 22:16 |
| ali1234 | has there really only ever been 6303 bugs (highest bug on buzilla) reported on maemo? | 22:16 |
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| hrw | how many people got n810 though ddp? | 22:16 |
| derf | At least for the N800, when I called NokiaUSA and they had no idea what I was talking about, after about an hour I got a manager to approve the order anyway. | 22:16 |
| derf | For the N810 they just flat-out refused. | 22:17 |
| julianoliver | Juzna: no, but i may be trying. typically though i send mail over an ssh tunnel. | 22:17 |
| RST38h | hrw: was not done through ddp, but was still complete mess | 22:17 |
| wazd | ~seen fiferboy | 22:17 |
| infobot | fiferboy <n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10d 1h 47m 22s ago, saying: 'If qwerty12 doesn't know it, it can't be known'. | 22:17 |
| wazd | eeek | 22:17 |
| xorAxAx | does the n900 have a stopwatch and alarms? | 22:17 |
| lcuk | general q, when you restore from a backup, does it just get the latest version of apps listed or does it specifically look for the installed version | 22:17 |
| julianoliver | Stskeeps: pleased to see great centralised API documentation also. | 22:17 |
| * julianoliver rubs hands | 22:17 | |
| PaulFertser | Just FYI. An external cardreader asked for probably its maximum current and n810 refused to power it up at all. I just made the kernel think that it can provide more and the cardreader works. | 22:17 |
| Firebird | Hm, talk.maemo getting stomped with traffic? or is my end just slow | 22:17 |
| hrw | julianoliver: used scratchbox before? | 22:18 |
| julianoliver | Firebird: slow from here (Berlin/DE) also | 22:18 |
| julianoliver | hrw: no i haven't | 22:18 |
| xorAxAx | Firebird: thats people who want to increase their karma for the n910 DDP | 22:18 |
| hrw | Firebird: no, t.m.o. just returned to normal speed (sluggish) | 22:18 |
| hrw | julianoliver: prepare for screaming and cursing | 22:18 |
| Firebird | xorAxAx, ? | 22:18 |
| julianoliver | hrw: hehe ok | 22:20 |
| julianoliver | i'll brace myself. as long as it isn't the purgatory of Symbian.. | 22:20 |
| hrw | julianoliver: one suggestion from me: do not install it in your system but use maemosdk virtualization image | 22:20 |
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| Flandry | if there's a bright center of coherence, it as the point farthest from | 22:20 |
| Flandry | is | 22:21 |
| julianoliver | hrw: ok, this is how i intended to work anyway.. | 22:21 |
| Flandry | yeah don't install it on main system, it really borked mine | 22:21 |
| timeless_mbp | so... | 22:21 |
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| xorAxAx | hmm, there doesnt seem to be an alarm app for the n900. is there really no way to get alarms? | 22:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm still confused about the sdk downlaods | 22:21 |
| julianoliver | initially though i think i'll just try to compile right on the device over SSH (IDE Vim) | 22:21 |
| lcuk | xorAxAx, click the clock | 22:21 |
| timeless_mbp | s/laods/loads/ | 22:21 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: i'm still confused about the sdk downloads | 22:21 |
| lcuk | and set as many alarms as you like | 22:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i downloaded something that had sdk in the name | 22:21 |
| xorAxAx | lcuk: ok, thanks :) | 22:21 |
| lcuk | the ui is amazing | 22:22 |
| timeless_mbp | but i can't find scratchbox | 22:22 |
| lcuk | it recalls all old alarms and can be reticked at any time | 22:22 |
| xorAxAx | lcuk: does the clock app also do stopwatch? | 22:22 |
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| lcuk | no stopwatch that ive found so far | 22:22 |
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| julianoliver | lcuk: would be a good app in itself.. | 22:22 |
| xorAxAx | lcuk: thats bad :-/ | 22:22 |
| * lcuk really likes the alarms ui | 22:22 | |
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| * julianoliver does also | 22:22 | |
| lcuk | yes, a simple stopwatch app :) | 22:22 |
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| hrw | lcuk: run it in other resolution then 800x480 and then it stops looking good | 22:23 |
| lcuk | these things tend to have feature creep, one day its a stop watch, the next its an egg timer and chess clock | 22:23 |
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| lcuk | hrw it runs in other resolutions anywa | 22:23 |
| xorAxAx | i mainly need it for debating :) | 22:23 |
| lcuk | what do you think happens when you zoom to the dashboard | 22:23 |
| xorAxAx | we have 7 min. limits on the speeches | 22:24 |
| lcuk | and it looks fine | 22:24 |
| Flandry | how many resolutions does your n900 run at, anyway? oO | 22:24 |
| lcuk | apart from the bug about it not refreshing i see no problems with it | 22:24 |
| lcuk | its part of the best looking gtk this side of pluto | 22:24 |
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| hrw | lcuk: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic10.jpg | 22:24 |
| lcuk | Flandry, that wasnt resolutions | 22:24 |
| lcuk | that was scaling the whole 800*480 down to see it in the thumbnails | 22:24 |
| lcuk | ooooh hrw, that looks even more special over my vnc | 22:25 |
| lcuk | which is 256color lol | 22:25 |
| Flandry | was directed at hrw but i see the scenarios now | 22:25 |
| lcuk | so the background layer is resolution dependent | 22:25 |
| hrw | lcuk: yep | 22:25 |
| * timeless_mbp looks for someone who is on the inside of the great nokia firewall | 22:25 | |
| hrw | Flandry: my n900? I do not have such one | 22:25 |
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| hrw | Flandry: and looking at DDP it looks like I will not have in this year | 22:26 |
| *** ANpr is now known as Anpr | 22:26 | |
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| Anpr | hello guys :) | 22:26 |
| Flandry | well just wondering why you care about other res than the only one on n900, that's all :D | 22:26 |
| Flandry | too bad about the DDP | 22:26 |
| * lcuk can run liqbase at 400*240 | 22:27 | |
| lcuk | or infact any other res | 22:27 |
| lcuk | o_O i avent tried higher on this device | 22:27 |
| Flandry | meh | 22:27 |
| * lcuk checks | 22:27 | |
| hrw | Flandry: maemosdk can be run at any resolution | 22:27 |
| hrw | Flandry: and I wonder how many people will run maemo5 on touchbook :D | 22:27 |
| Flandry | hmm | 22:27 |
| andre__ | sigh, Nokia. "Meamo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_0_en.txt". yeah, with typo | 22:28 |
| Flandry | haha | 22:28 |
| * Flandry trademarks Meamo and sues Nokia | 22:28 | |
| javispedro | Me aaaaamoooooo | 22:28 |
| Flandry | awesome | 22:29 |
| Flandry | finally an OS that loves me | 22:29 |
| Flandry | or itself | 22:29 |
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| Flandry | man i'm so confused | 22:29 |
| hrw | Flandry: but maemosdk shows that 800x480 is hardcoded in some apps | 22:30 |
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| hrw | bye | 22:30 |
| javispedro | it is. | 22:30 |
| Flandry | also, step 5 will be same hardware res | 22:30 |
| javispedro | it's been hardcoded in some apps since, forever. | 22:30 |
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| hrw | and I wonder how many years will take maemo5 to get usable applauncher instead of that crap which is present now | 22:31 |
| hrw | qwerty12_N900: downgrade? | 22:31 |
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| Flandry | he's back from the future | 22:31 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Heh | 22:31 |
| RST38h | hrw: It really does not take that long | 22:32 |
| RST38h | hrw: But taking most UX people to the landfill feels like a necessary prerequisite | 22:32 |
| hrw | RST38h: maemo4 did not got too many UI changes during it's life. | 22:33 |
| Shapeshifter | hrw: we'll just "port" gmrun? | 22:33 |
| hrw | RST38h: I do not expect seeing UI changes in maemo5 | 22:33 |
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| javispedro | maemo1-4 got UI changes? | 22:33 |
| * RST38h has no idea why Maemo4 UI has not been considered good enough | 22:33 | |
| RST38h | Although it is less flashy, true | 22:34 |
| javispedro | flashy! | 22:34 |
| javispedro | basically, in this day and age, a big black shiny button on the phone with a "Don't panic" caption is enough to win the Phone maker's Nobel Prize. | 22:34 |
| javispedro | end of user interface :) | 22:34 |
| lcuk | capital P please | 22:34 |
| lcuk | its important! | 22:34 |
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| RST38h | javis: you forgot shiny =) | 22:35 |
| lcuk | and the color needs changing from black to slate | 22:35 |
| hrw | bye | 22:35 |
| *** hrw is now known as hrw|gone | 22:35 | |
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| RST38h | lcuk: go for all capitals, in bloody red: DON'T PANIC | 22:35 |
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| javispedro | :) | 22:35 |
| lcuk | we will have to let timeless do the translations | 22:35 |
| lcuk | so it doesnt really matter what | 22:36 |
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| RST38h | And it MUST have Twitter client | 22:36 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 22:36 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: an update translation should come out w/in 6hrs | 22:36 |
| RST38h | Everything must have a twitter client nowadays | 22:36 |
| lcuk | lo | 22:37 |
| lcuk | l | 22:37 |
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| jaska | twitter client? never saw the point in that service/site | 22:37 |
| lcuk | irc for web2.0 | 22:37 |
| mavhc | twitter is interactive rss | 22:38 |
| lcuk | or the backend db for it at least | 22:38 |
| RST38h | jaska: Why? You can have a toilet with a twitter client so that it twits "Taking a shit, 5:47pm" every time you visit it | 22:38 |
| RST38h | jaska: Isn't it mighty cool? Isn't it? Web 2.0 duuuuude! | 22:38 |
| mavhc | RST38h: that's as quaint as saying everyone's blog is about their cat | 22:38 |
| jaska | make the toilet send messages when its flushed? | 22:38 |
| jaska | blahblahs_toilet: flushed 1231g of fecal matter | 22:39 |
| RST38h | mavhc: What if someone does not have a cat? | 22:39 |
| lcuk | RT: @toilet flushing, extra power. | 22:39 |
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| Shapeshifter | mhh, when trying to install xterm in the SDK I get: xterm: Depends: xbitmaps but it is not installable | 22:39 |
| lcuk | it needs hashtags | 22:39 |
| mavhc | then why would they have a blog? I don't understand! | 22:39 |
| lcuk | its a bog | 22:40 |
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| hotaru2k3 | twitter is like like reading everything that gets sent to /dev/null | 22:40 |
| mavhc | follow more interesting people then, duh | 22:41 |
| RST38h | mavhc: not on twitter though | 22:41 |
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| RST38h | Mer autobuilder is about the most interesting "blog" you can follow on Twitter | 22:41 |
| lcuk | i think this is the best twitter account http://twitter.com/Big_ben_clock | 22:42 |
| sjaensch | lol | 22:42 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: we have a autobuilder twitter? | 22:43 |
| *** Xisdibik_ has joined #maemo | 22:43 | |
| * Shapeshifter <3 maemo | 22:43 | |
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| *** Xisdibik_ is now known as Xisdibik | 22:44 | |
| Stskeeps | we used to, obviously. | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Stskeeps: Maybe that old ass Jaiku. (Which, BTW, was more fun than OBS) | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it was fun.. | 22:44 |
| Xisdibik | qwerty12_N900: your making me sad | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:44 |
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| *** qwerty12_N900 is now known as qwerty12 | 22:44 | |
| RST38h | Sts: Well, someone had | 22:44 |
| RST38h | Sts: I think it was Mer, wasn't it? | 22:45 |
| qwerty12 | Xisdibik: Why? ;P | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:45 |
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| Xisdibik | qwerty12: your other name ;) | 22:47 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 22:47 | |
| * timeless_mbp wants to kick something | 22:47 | |
| qwerty12 | Xisdibik: qwerty12_N800? qwerty12_N810? | 22:47 |
| * Xisdibik hands timeless_mbp Amazon.com | 22:47 | |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: Tweet it | 22:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | Xisdibik: is it near mexico city? | 22:48 |
| Xisdibik | qwerty12: the one you were using just a moment ago ;) | 22:48 |
| Xisdibik | timeless_mbp: no its not unfortauntely :( | 22:48 |
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| qwerty12 | Xisdibik: I haven't a clue what you're talking about. *whistles* | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | Xisdibik: are you near mexico city? | 22:48 |
| Xisdibik | qwerty12: :( | 22:49 |
| Xisdibik | timeless_mbp: depends what you define near as ;) | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | willing to go on a field trip to | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | what other definition is there? :) | 22:49 |
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| Xisdibik | haha, not sure, i mean theres some cities "near" me, but i wouldnt want to take a field trip to it | 22:50 |
| Xisdibik | Stockton being a great example | 22:50 |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: Did you ever file bugs against gtk20-l10n? | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12: you mean for having en-gb as the translation for en-us? | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | or ... ? | 22:50 |
| qwerty12 | timeless: This package: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/non-free/g/gtk20-l10n/ . I saw its changelog and an entry made me think of you | 22:51 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 22:51 | |
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| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: http://pastebin.com/d77c352a5 | 22:52 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 22:55 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 22:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | that could be me | 22:55 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders how the heck to check | 22:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | not exactly the most descriptive of messages | 22:55 |
| * lcuk giggles. | 22:57 | |
| RST38h | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/11/freezephone.jpg | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | woohoo | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | i sent an email to 3 people @nokia-mexico-city yesterday | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | and i just got a reply from one of htem | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | s/htem/them/ | 22:58 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: and i just got a reply from one of them | 22:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | there's only one bug against gtk20-l10n | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | it's an import of bug 4044 | 22:59 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4044 en-US gtk localization file is en-GB | 22:59 |
| andre__ | RST38h, I once used my N810 at -15 degrees Celsius and it was just damn slow | 23:00 |
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| jerhum | hello | 23:00 |
| RST38h | andre: should actually be pretty fast as long as battery holds out | 23:00 |
| RST38h | weird | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12: you're free to file a bug complaining that the changelog was politically incorrect ;-) | 23:01 |
| jerhum | nice day i've received my n900 :) | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | jerhum: welcome :) | 23:01 |
| * RST38h left his wristwatch at the sun once for 15 minutes, and the LCD went completely black | 23:01 | |
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| jerhum | but i doesn't found how to browse smb share ? | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | jerhum: maemo5.0 does not support that | 23:02 |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: Hehe, bugs aren't my thing. I may provide shitty patches for some, but that's as far as my involvement goes | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | you'll need a third party thing for it | 23:02 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12: someday ... we'll fix that :) | 23:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | so um | 23:02 |
| xorAxAx | is there java for maemo 5? | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | jerhum: that said, it's a matter of making a kernel module for it or interface to smbclient or the likes | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: not preinstalled | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | if java is open source, you're welcome to port it | 23:03 |
| luke-jr | lol | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | or you could find someone / some project which already exists (e.g. jalimo) | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | heck, if it's closed source, you're welcome to license it and pay someone to port it :) | 23:03 |
| luke-jr | timeless_mbp: why can't he pay someone to port it if it's open? | 23:04 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | or that! | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | so many choices! | 23:04 |
| javispedro | or why he can't license it and port it himself? | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | or that! | 23:04 |
| ShadowJK | Sun has a binary you can download freeofcharge for "development" purposes | 23:04 |
| xorAxAx | why wasnt it ported yet? :) | 23:05 |
| luke-jr | why can't Nokia give him the hardware schematics so he can embed a Java CPU himself? | 23:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: i'm not sure i actually said that | 23:05 |
| luke-jr | xorAxAx: cuz nobody cares about Java? | 23:05 |
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| xorAxAx | timeless_mbp: the website is slow so i cant check :) | 23:05 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, the CPU has a java mode actually... | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | 'the website'? | 23:05 |
| qwerty12 | luke-jr: Wow, I'd never thought I'd find myself agreeing with you on a point | 23:05 |
| xorAxAx | maemo.org | 23:05 |
| ShadowJK | not that anyone uses it :) | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | a java vm + class library is not exactly tiny | 23:05 |
| ali1234 | luke-jr: omap3 already has jazelle support | 23:06 |
| luke-jr | qwerty12: which point? | 23:06 |
| luke-jr | ali1234: Jazelle is not a complete Java implementation | 23:06 |
| RST38h | OMAP3 has "trivial" Jazelle support | 23:06 |
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| mavhc | the problem is mobile java isn't free | 23:06 |
| javispedro | RST38h++ | 23:06 |
| RST38h | I.e. it does not really support Jazelle | 23:06 |
| ali1234 | ShadowJK: nobody uses it because arm won't tell anyone how it works | 23:06 |
| RST38h | Has got a dummy BJ instruction | 23:06 |
| mavhc | jazelle is only hardware for some java stuff, not all of it | 23:06 |
| javispedro | ali1234: nobody uses it because it's not worth it. | 23:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | the only really cool flavor of that was Crusoe | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | too bad it didn't win | 23:07 |
| luke-jr | Transmeta's chip? | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | and crusoe was supposedly "only" "microcode on steroids" | 23:07 |
| xorAxAx | hmm, does jalimo support j2me apps? | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: since none of us actually deal in java | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | asking here is really unlikely to get you anything resembling useful responses | 23:08 |
| javispedro | Jalimo is quite a big project and one of their ports should support j2me apps. | 23:08 |
| xorAxAx | timeless_mbp: there are many good people here ;-) | 23:08 |
| javispedro | note though that a) I've not tried it b) It's not fremantle-ready | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | (i'm speaking as someone who in a past life actually did work on a java port) | 23:08 |
| luke-jr | xorAxAx: and good people don't use Java | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | the intersection of people who deal/are interested in java, and people who could make it build in sb, is approximately 0 | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: my condolences | 23:08 |
| * RST38h knows enough details about Crusoe to avoid using "cool" in the same sentence | 23:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | (not as a major dev, but i was involved [mostly java to mozilla bridge work] | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: hey, it was a summer job | 23:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | the guys who did the serious work were actually quite cool | 23:09 |
| * RST38h works with these guys like right now | 23:09 | |
| timeless_mbp | (this was probably 2000) | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | in a life before that, i actually dabbled w/ netbeans :) | 23:10 |
| xorAxAx | luke-jr: yes, they use python, i know :) | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | (when it was forte for java) | 23:10 |
| derf | I've actually done Java development since 1996 or so. | 23:10 |
| derf | I just have no interest in seeing it on these devices. | 23:10 |
| luke-jr | xorAxAx: no wai! Perl ftw | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | derf: commercial, or as a student? :) | 23:10 |
| derf | timeless_mbp: As a student, then commercial. | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | derf: i was playing w/ java around 96 | 23:11 |
| timeless_mbp | (in high school) | 23:11 |
| xorAxAx | luke-jr: perl is useful to make urandom executable but not as a language :) | 23:11 |
| derf | I still remember downloading 1.0.1 and having it break all my for loops because they changed the scoping rules. | 23:11 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 23:11 |
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| ShadowJK | I remember 1.3 was the last one where IBM had a fast jre | 23:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i remember having fun dealing w/ differences between 1.0.x, 1.1.x, and 1.2.x | 23:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and i remember jikes | 23:12 |
| timeless_mbp | oh and i remember when hotspot was introduced :) | 23:12 |
| derf | After getting bit by g++ changing them also, earlier that year, I stopped declaring variables in the for preamble, ever. | 23:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 23:12 |
| xorAxAx | luke-jr: just look at pypy, who would manage to write a perl interpreter and compiler in perl itself? | 23:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: um | 23:13 |
| luke-jr | xorAxAx: I'm sure it's been done. | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc perl mostly self hosts | 23:13 |
| luke-jr | parsing is Perl's strength | 23:13 |
| derf | timeless_mbp: Thanks to browsers, I _still_ have to support code running in 1.1.x. | 23:13 |
| xorAxAx | timeless_mbp: isnt it written in C? | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: oh some of perl is C | 23:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | but .. | 23:13 |
| derf | It turns out Sun's compiler can't even produce code that will run on the original VMs any longer. | 23:13 |
| javispedro | I'm sure someone could actually parse and interpret a subset of Perl in less than 80 chars worth of Perl =) | 23:14 |
| derf | Despite the supposed compatibility options. | 23:14 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: I doubt it, as Perl is actually non-parsable. | 23:14 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: for a very limited set of statements :) | 23:14 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: code can mean entirely different things based on modules loaded | 23:14 |
| xorAxAx | i claim that a parser of perl in perl would be unmaintanable | 23:14 |
| javispedro | luke-jr: what, does perl support override of "braces" or other token's meaning? | 23:15 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: yes | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | the trouble with python is that it's source code doubles as its language definition | 23:15 |
| xorAxAx | ShadowJK: i dont understand | 23:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | effectively it isn't a standard | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | it's an implementation which is the rule | 23:16 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: for example, the Lingua::Romana::Perligata module replaces braces with 'sic' and 'cis' keywords | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | if there's a bug in the implementtion | 23:16 |
| timeless_mbp | then that's the rule | 23:16 |
| * andre__ has his first WTF experience with Nokia's emergency call function in device lock | 23:17 | |
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| Xisdibik | andre__: what happend? | 23:17 |
| zaheerm | please test zoutube from extra-testing guys and vote on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/zoutube/0.1-18/ | 23:17 |
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| luke-jr | javispedro: http://pastebin.ca/1684240 | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: your code starts with 112? | 23:18 |
| andre__ | :-D | 23:18 |
| Xisdibik | Stskeeps: 112??? | 23:18 |
| ShadowJK | emergency call | 23:18 |
| zaheerm | 112 is european emergency number | 23:18 |
| andre__ | in Yurop it's 112 | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | oh dear | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | TMO's being DDoSed | 23:18 |
| ShadowJK | ... and nothing of value was lost ;) | 23:18 |
| qwerty12 | Xisdibik: Yeah, you can shove your lousy 911! | 23:18 |
| javispedro | luke-jr: so it's just replacing the tokenizer. not impossible to parse then. | 23:18 |
| andre__ | yeah. it's awesome. and only because of the UK thread! we should block all UK IPs! ;-) | 23:18 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Really? | 23:19 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Not by Googlebot I hope? :) | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34951&page=2 | 23:19 |
| * qwerty12 stares at andre__ | 23:19 | |
| luke-jr | javispedro: you'd need to execute the module's code to go on | 23:19 |
| Xisdibik | qwerty12: dont make me fly over there and take your N900! :P cuz you know i will do it! | 23:19 |
| qwerty12 | Xisdibik: I dare you! :p | 23:19 |
| andre__ | qwerty12: don't make such eyes at me, sigh... :-P | 23:19 |
| javispedro | exactly, but I said an interpreter. | 23:19 |
| qwerty12 | andre__: Aww... :( :p | 23:20 |
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| type_t2 | hola. | 23:20 |
| javispedro | hallo. | 23:20 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: I am for the martial law =) | 23:21 |
| RST38h | (followed by regular exe^H^H^Hsacrifice) | 23:22 |
| andre__ | yay, ddos... apple! google! microsoft! conspiracy! I should go trolling in the talk forum... | 23:22 |
| Xisdibik | qwerty12: I decided you can keep your n900, its for the betterment of the maemo community ;) | 23:22 |
| javispedro | luke-jr: sorry, you're right, I was understimating Perl's weird abilities. | 23:22 |
| type_t2 | so whos messing with the any SDK rootstrap for cross development? | 23:22 |
| qwerty12 | Xisdibik: Couldn't find the UK? | 23:22 |
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| Xisdibik | qwerty12: ive been to the UK 3 times, almost moved there permantently one of them :P | 23:23 |
| type_t2 | i'm screwing with the i386 stuff. just let my fingers do the conspiracy talk. | 23:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre__, fail. | 23:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a /Nokia/ conspiracy, duh. | 23:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | They don't want Talk spreading around anymore negative press. | 23:24 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, true, that's even more likely! | 23:25 |
| javispedro | Talk's been killed? | 23:25 |
| * javispedro jumps | 23:25 | |
| type_t2 | wel lets raise HELL | 23:25 |
| andre__ | javispedro, not really, it just smelled funny today | 23:25 |
| Milhouse | Apparently it got DDOS'd | 23:25 |
| javispedro | HEL. | 23:25 |
| Milhouse | Back now though | 23:25 |
| RST38h | please do not raise hell | 23:26 |
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| andre__ | so can somebody please define the term "Device lock" for me? | 23:26 |
| * andre__ is confused whether he runs into features or bugs | 23:26 | |
| RST38h | please seat quietly and attempt to think before you press the submit button on t.m.o | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | oooh, nokia emailed me today to say my N900 is in the mail :D | 23:26 |
| type_t2 | so its a $600+ DOLLAR unit.. right .. | 23:26 |
| RST38h | read your comment twice, if you still want to push that submit button, do | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | or with a courier who'll undoubtedly get lost... i hope it's in the mail | 23:26 |
| Xisdibik | andre__: its when you put a padlock around your phone :D | 23:26 |
| xorAxAx | kensington :) | 23:26 |
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| andre__ | Xisdibik, okay. need to rename functions in that case :-P | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | andre__, I think there's some legal mumbo jumbo requiring phones to dial emergency number even when locked | 23:27 |
| qwerty12 | Xisdibik: http://qwerty12.qole.org/attachment-EOTL3U.png | 23:27 |
| andre__ | ShadowJK, yeah, sure, I think I'm aware of it | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | a feature would be to warn the user that "9112" is not a good choice for lock code | 23:28 |
| Xisdibik | woot im famous | 23:28 |
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| andre__ | I think I should read Nokia's supersecret UI Specifications to get a clue about Device lock... | 23:28 |
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| GAN900 | type_t2, under $500 at Amazon. | 23:29 |
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| Milhouse | Where are people getting all these multiple 15% discount codes in the UK? | 23:30 |
| Milhouse | I see people using 3x 15% discount codes plus another 10% discount and wonder wtf? :) | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: you could read my strings :) | 23:31 |
| Stskeeps | Milhouse: also a lot of them getting orders cancelled :P | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: there is indeed such mumbo jumbo | 23:31 |
| Milhouse | Sts: yeah, but seems a bit random | 23:31 |
| andre__ | "I got 7 of those discount codes, now Nokia has to pay me some money" | 23:32 |
| Milhouse | Sts: It might be cheaper to get a device through retail with these discounts that to persist with DDP | 23:32 |
| Milhouse | andre: :) | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: well - more have said it worked than hasn't. | 23:32 |
| Milhouse | Anyone know the source of these codes? | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: so... | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | millenomi: It just happened that topcashback.co.uk had a few voucher codes for the n900 | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Milhouse: | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | There's Device Lock, SIM Lock, and Screen Lock | 23:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | Milhouse: I think most of the codes have now expired | 23:33 |
| millenomi | who dares summon my na-- oh, nick mishap | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | Device Lock is basically a CAL based pin which you need to enable the device | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | minus emergency calls | 23:33 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, strings? what? where? why? | 23:33 |
| Milhouse | SpeedEvil: Bummer... thanks. I'll have a snout around topcashback though just in case | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | SIM Lock is a SIM based pin (plus PIN2 and PUK and friends) which you need to enable Network services | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: enus1 | 23:33 |
| andre__ | ah. | 23:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.topcashback.co.uk/retailerdetailNokia.htm - 12% ATM | 23:33 |
| andre__ | nope. no time :) | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | network services may or may not include emergency call | 23:34 |
| timeless_mbp | (it technically iirc varies by country) | 23:34 |
| timeless_mbp | (i.e. local law) | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | the UK you can't make calls without a SIM | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | ^emergency | 23:34 |
| timeless_mbp | Screen Lock prevents most key / pressure input | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | A valid SIM, logged onto a network | 23:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | and can be unlocked by opening the screen, using the sliding thing at one side | 23:34 |
| timeless_mbp | or by pressing power and then sliding the thingy on the screen | 23:35 |
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| Milhouse | SpeedEvil - so are these codes "earned"? | 23:35 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: anyway, is that clear as mud? | 23:35 |
| Milhouse | SpeedEvil: ie. I've got to buy stuff before getting a code? | 23:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Milhouse: no. | 23:35 |
| Milhouse | SpeedEvil: So just give an email address and that's it? | 23:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Milhouse: It happened that tehre was a 15% discount, a 15% discount code that someone found for 'accessories' - and then a 15% nokia-club or something one | 23:36 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 23:36 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, oh yeah :) | 23:36 |
| Milhouse | Sweet... | 23:36 |
| SpeedEvil | the topcashback site gets commission for orders you place through them. They pass this onto you | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: do you have an ubuntu/debian system somewhere? | 23:37 |
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| andre__ | "nokia-club"? sounds like a finnish mixed sauna with some extras "services"... | 23:37 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, yes, on the computer next to this one (but not switched on) | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | because you can use the advanced options portion of my package to do localization lookup | 23:37 |
| javispedro | nokia-conspiracy sounds much better. | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | which could at times be helpful :) | 23:37 |
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| andre__ | hmm, true :) | 23:37 |
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| qwerty12 | javispedro: Can I apt-get install that? | 23:38 |
| javispedro | no, it apt-get installs you. | 23:39 |
| Milhouse | SpeedEvil: Hmmm looks like there's just a 15% discount on accessories and a 10% discount on selected phones (not including N900) | 23:39 |
| qwerty12 | Heh | 23:39 |
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| javispedro | more like it apt-get purges you. | 23:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | the accessories discount was one I used, and it worked for the phone | 23:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | Enter it - see if it works in the cart. You can see before checking out. | 23:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, are there any aftermarket warranty services in the UK? | 23:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Milhouse, the SquareTrade thing in the US is actually a pretty decent idea. | 23:46 |
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| lcuk | whats that then GeneralAntilles ? | 23:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: warranty has to be 12 months in the UK (generally) | 23:46 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: and you can return it unless you don't like it until 10 days for a full refund, including shipping. | 23:47 |
| xorAxAx | can the n900 act as a bluetooth modem for a notebook? | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, not for DDP. | 23:47 |
| timeless_mbp | xl | 23:47 |
| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: yes | 23:47 |
| timeless_mbp | xorAxAx: google for it | 23:47 |
| xorAxAx | good | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~bluetooth-profiles | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~bluetooth-profiles is http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles | 23:48 |
| infobot | okay, GeneralAntilles | 23:48 |
| Milhouse | GeneralAntilles: Not that I'm aware of | 23:48 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: I'm unsure that is legal. | 23:48 |
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| Milhouse | SpeedEvil/GA: Yes, a 1 week warranty is pretty dodgey ground from a legal standpoint in the UK | 23:48 |
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| type_t2 | instead of passing the link .why dont you just say yas or no?.. | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: the distance selling act certainly does not have any language saying 'unless you have a karma >200' | 23:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | type_t2, because the link guides you through the steps necessary to do it? :) | 23:49 |
| type_t2 | tethering not allowed. is what you should say | 23:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | type_t2, problem is, that's not actually the case. | 23:52 |
| penguinbait | type_t2 are you always this rude to people actually trying to help you? | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | type_t2, unless you actually know more about this than me, I recommend you try absorbing information rather than lecturing. :) | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, he's being rude to people trying to help other people, actually. | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Peanut gallery. | 23:53 |
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| type_t2 | ok i see you tell me i i'm lecturing ..just said i would that you rather say yes or no instead of posting links .. thats not rude. :p | 23:58 |
| javispedro | so let's sue Nokia. | 23:59 |
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