IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-11-22

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Stskeeps	cos that probably determines if it's you or someone else taking care of that :P	00:01
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GeneralAntilles	OpenIsmus	00:03
qwerty12_N810	I thought he worked in a chocolate factory?	00:04
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zgold	What is the preferred way to play through g-streamer on the commadn line in maemo 5?	00:05
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Chani	:/ I have horrible luck with n-series and chargers	00:06
Chani	my n900 is having trouble charging now	00:06
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Chani	I finally got it to turn on, but it says that battery is low	00:06
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andre_	Stskeeps, I'm employed	00:06
andre_	qwerty12_N810, sssh, don't tell them about all my other jobs!	00:06
mikhas	Chani, do you recharge via USB?	00:07
Chani	mikhas: yes	00:07
qwerty12_N810	andre_: Ohh, right. Sorry!	00:07
crashanddie	Jaffa, MoSCoW?	00:07
mikhas	well, you might want to try via power outlet	00:07
Chani	aha! got it this tim,,, but it'll probably stop again in a minute	00:07
mikhas	it could be that your USB port is not providing enough power for a recharge	00:07
Chani	mikhas: don't have one of those chargers	00:07
andre_	qwerty12_N810, and never ever mention my microsoft position. you know those open source facists...	00:08
Chani	all I have is the usb cable	00:08
mikhas	ok, try other USB ports then	00:08
Chani	mikhas: also, it worked fine for the last week	00:08
mikhas	and check your BIOS whether you ramp up power supply	00:08
mikhas	hmph	00:08
mikhas	<= out of ideas then	00:08
Chani	just this morning I woke up and it was frozen, thinking it was still charging...	00:08
andre_	Chani, how did you get the device if you don't have a normal non-usb charger? :)	00:08
Chani	andre_: from a teacher. he had two devices and only one wall charger	00:08
andre_	Chani, tried removing the battery and wait for a day?	00:09
andre_	ah i see	00:09
* andre_ wonders whether his idea makes sense at all		00:09
mikhas	1. go to your teacher's house 2. steal the wall charger	00:09
sp3000	(if it's attached to a wall, take the wall too, it may come in handy)	00:09
Chani	I have problems with my n810 too, I have to jiggle the cable a lot to get it to charge, then if I touch it again it might stop	00:09
andre_	that list is missing to take the food from the fridge	00:09
Chani	hehehe	00:09
* GeneralAntilles puts andre_ on a stake.		00:09
mikhas	it's an open-ended list =)	00:10
qwerty12_N810	1. Download porn 2. Threaten to put it on teacher's account if he does not give the charger	00:10
Chani	aargh, it stopped charging when I put it down again	00:10
Stskeeps	Chani: typical issue with that charger plug	00:10
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* sp3000 typically loses with cables before plugs		00:11
* Chani jiggles the cable again		00:11
andre_	qwerty12_N810, if you could elaborate the first step via /prvmsg - tried so many times and never found it in this internet thingy	00:11
Chani	sigh it works when I'm touching the cable...	00:11
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qwerty12_N810	andre_: Well, it all starts with Lemonparty...	00:12
andre_	Chani, yeah, sometimes technical stuff behaves like women. just be friendly to them and show some love.	00:12
GeneralAntilles	Ooh, sweet, HP's got a thin client with that 1.2GHz Marvell.	00:14
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luke-jr	O.o	00:15
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SpeedEvil	I now have a sort-of-prototype application - well - at least the outline of one - for a barcode based inventory thing for my desktop. (possible to later port to the phone). I want to integrate a kitchen scale to this. Is there any project anyone can point me at to read 7 segment displays?	00:16
luke-jr	...	00:17
SpeedEvil	(I know there are USB scales, however I don't have one)	00:17
crashanddie	anyone know what Jaffa meant by "MoSCoW prioritisation?"	00:18
zerojay	andre does, I think.	00:18
andre_	actually: no.	00:18
andre_	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoSCoW	00:19
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GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, failed to connect.	00:25
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, bad Mac :P	00:25
SpeedEvil	Talk lacks something at the moment. It should have an auto-generated youtube channel for each thread, where everyone can add video comments.	00:25
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, did you removed the previous pairings ?	00:25
zerojay	lol	00:25
GeneralAntilles	Yes	00:25
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, which opinion did you use ?	00:25
GeneralAntilles	Me need a bot to mirror -1 comments that match keyword searches to Talk.	00:26
GeneralAntilles	(from slashdot)	00:26
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, the opinion that you suck.	00:26
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, I know :P , -->Option	00:26
GeneralAntilles	Hang on, let me delete the pairings again.	00:27
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, use the third option, if it fails to connect go back and choose the second (reconnect)	00:28
GeneralAntilles	OK, it works.	00:29
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qwerty12_N810	Option 4: Ditch the Mac	00:29
GeneralAntilles	Why doesn't the hardware keyboard work?	00:29
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, same problem as xev and Qole's stuff	00:29
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, 'course the layout is all wrong.	00:30
VDVsx	hintfocus	00:30
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, qwerty12 has a patch for that, right?	00:30
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, not for the efl LIB :(	00:30
GeneralAntilles	Ah	00:30
qwerty12_N810	VDVsx: Ship xprop with BlueMaemo =)	00:30
GeneralAntilles	Well, my issue is that the layouts don't match.	00:30
* qwerty12_N810 hides		00:30
* VDVsx has to kick someone		00:30
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VDVsx	qwerty12_N810, in the worse case I can do a gtk or Qt main loop that inject the keys into EFL	00:31
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lardman	night chaps, cu tomorrow	00:32
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GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, OK, got some bugs to file.	00:33
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, as I said the UI is unfinished, but shot :P	00:33
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, what version is this?	00:33
VDVsx	0.3.9	00:34
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, can you move the settings and about up into the menu?	00:35
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, I can, but this is not GTK+ :)	00:36
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, well, it's trying to look like it. :P	00:36
VDVsx	more or less, lol	00:37
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, not being able to get to about until you've connected to something is irritating.	00:37
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, true, I've plans to make hildon-like menu, but first I need to finish the 'default' UI	00:39
VDVsx	actually a did one, but very ugly	00:39
* VDVsx needs wazd help :p		00:39
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, ah, I've a service record that support the multimedia keys/email/browser ...., only need a way to assign them (more UI work :()	00:41
Jaffa	crashanddie: Wikipedia link above is accurate: Must/Should/Could/Won't	00:41
VDVsx	better than assign p or space	00:42
GeneralAntilles	Don't think they'll work in OS X.	00:42
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, yes they work, according to one of my testers	00:43
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, "volume up/down, mute, play/pause, stop, next track, previous track all work as expected on both systems." XP and Mac OS 10.5.8	00:44
wazd	VDVsx: who summoned me? :D	00:46
* GeneralAntilles throws holy water on wazd and runs.		00:46
VDVsx	wazd, was GeneralAntilles	00:46
VDVsx	w:P	00:47
wazd	Harrr!	00:47
wazd	VDVsx: so? :)	00:48
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Macer	n900 out yet?	00:48
Macer	:)	00:48
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Macer	i was going to buy one this week but went out and bought a ton of clothes instead haha	00:48
VDVsx	wazd, I need more stuff for BlueMaemo, but lets finish the essential first :)	00:48
wazd	Macer: nono, is n900 shipped yet? :D	00:49
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GeneralAntilles	Macer, Chicago and NY flagship stores supposedly have them.	00:50
SpeedEvil	Also allegedly UK orders from nokia.co.uk are going out monday	00:51
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lbt	SpeedEvil: oooh	00:52
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SpeedEvil	but that was from talk - so who knows. (though the nokia.co.uk site itself says 'from 23rd'	00:53
SpeedEvil	(no change in order status though I ordered on the 20th)	00:53
ShadowJK	.fi store orders mostly went out yesterday, allegedly. Alot of people who managed to obtain UPS tracking though, say UPS is moving the packages the wrong direction, away from .fi o_0	00:53
alterego	MEEMO	00:53
alterego	cocksqueezers	00:54
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ShadowJK	I'm afraid to check if my visa still says -800 or if nokia shop failed to charge it	00:54
GeneralAntilles	lol	00:54
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GeneralAntilles	I still need to re-order with DDP	00:54
GeneralAntilles	My credit card company hates Forum Nokia's BS.	00:54
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cghouly	Hello everyone. I was wondering, is anyone working on porting mauku 2 and/or microfeed to diablo?	00:56
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wazd	VDVsx: can I go sleep now? :)	00:59
VDVsx	wazd, no	00:59
VDVsx	lol	00:59
wazd	VDVsx: damn :)\	00:59
VDVsx	wazd, now you can :P	00:59
VDVsx	but only 3 hours	01:00
VDVsx	is enough for you	01:00
wazd	VDVsx: kk my lord :D	01:00
VDVsx	:D	01:00
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kirma	speedevil: as shadowjk told... I guess large portion of european preorders have got shipping from rotterdam on friday evening	01:02
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kirma	mine is Köln/Cologne now	01:02
kirma	+in	01:03
ShadowJK	I ordered rather late, and the damn website was so broken I couldn't register a username, so I didn't get any emails..	01:03
ShadowJK	except the first 3	01:03
SpeedEvil	No charge yet.	01:03
javispedro	save for DDP orders, which have been lost in cyberspace.	01:03
ShadowJK	And Nokia Shop FI said they ran out of devices due to high demand and couldn't fulfill every order :/	01:03
kirma	Nokia Shop FI gave indirect impression that they would have the devices in Finland, but they were really in Rotterdam (port?), and I think some non-Finn had identical tracking information indicating that the shipment there was much larger than just Finns... so others in other countries might be missing some too	01:05
mikhas	but that's good signs, no?	01:05
mikhas	high demand, I mean	01:06
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ShadowJK	Well at this point the devices going to fi aren't going anywhere else because no other place has crippled the keyboard in the same way, right ;)	01:06
kirma	I'm confident it'll end up at work on monday to me, unless UPS delivery guy fumbles locally at Helsinki...	01:06
ShadowJK	I think I picked standard delivery, I don't remember well. I hope that means Itella and not UPS	01:07
kirma	I would certainly have appreciated it getting shipped on thursday and reaching me friday, but it's not such a huge issue it would tip over my world	01:07
ShadowJK	The devices sitting in rotterdam kinda explains why they started shipping so soon, to account for the extra time it takes?	01:08
kirma	Rotterdam would also indicate that they really did ship it by ship from Korea	01:09
kirma	how long that takes...	01:10
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ShadowJK	lol	01:12
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ShadowJK	2-3 weeks I guess?	01:12
ShadowJK	what's that other big port in germany?	01:12
ShadowJK	up some river iirc	01:12
SpeedEvil	rhine	01:13
kirma	netherlands, biggest port in europe	01:13
qwerty12_N810	Hamburg?	01:13
range	Hamburg. But that's really not as close as Rotterdam.	01:13
range	SpeedEvil: Further up the rhine is stupid if you need a central hub. Next large harbour behind Rotterdam is Duisburg.	01:13
till-	bremerhaven	01:13
till-	:)	01:14
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Stskeeps	if from korea, why not italy/france?	01:14
Stskeeps	:P	01:14
SpeedEvil	Yeah - I was trying to remember my german geography.	01:14
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SpeedEvil	Which comes largely from the '1632' series of novels.	01:14
Stskeeps	if it goes through the canal down in egypt	01:14
till-	but hamburg harbor is much bigger	01:15
range	Stskeeps: Yeah, I'm wondering about that too, as it has to go through the mediterranean sea.	01:15
range	So maybe not by ship after all?	01:15
* SpeedEvil ponders the _real_ reason for the shipping delays.		01:15
ShadowJK	Stskeeps, sea is most economical	01:15
SpeedEvil	It's a tragic reverse of the Spinal Tap moment.	01:15
SpeedEvil	The screen is in fact 3.5m, not 3.5".	01:16
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Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: i'd pay for a 3.5m N900.	01:16
Stskeeps	if it came at the price suggested in DDP, that'd be great, too ;)	01:16
range	Rotterdam seems to be one of UPS' central hubs.	01:16
andre_	maybe some Somali pirates now all have N900s and that's the real reason why we wait ;-)	01:17
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kirma	some page says that daesan-rotterdam shipment would take a tad over a month	01:18
range	But UPS is bleh. Looks like taking off half a day if I want to receive the thing at home.	01:18
kirma	that would be great joy since vast portion of somali don't even know how to read their own language	01:19
andre_	i'm not talking about the average Somali (whatever that means since the country does not exist), but educated pirates.	01:20
SpeedEvil	Somalia doesn't exist?	01:20
kirma	where they have got their education if the country has supposedly been in constant civil war for like twenty years?	01:21
kirma	:I	01:21
kirma	(yeah, offtopic)	01:21
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qwerty12_N810	Somalia's awesome. I mean, where else in the world can you go to Puntland?	01:21
andre_	true that!	01:21
andre_	kirma, just because there is civil war in parts of the country does not mean that people are uneducated ;-)	01:22
SpeedEvil	Or that it doesn't exist.	01:22
andre_	pirates do contact ship owners in english or french i assume.	01:22
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andre_	yes, it exists on some maps. but that's all.	01:22
mikhas	they needed the n900s to extend their pirate business	01:23
kirma	I have to say that the pirates haven't really worked too hard on giving that civilised, highly educated image...	01:23
andre_	well, maybe that's the media here?	01:23
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andre_	they probably didn't start piracy because they were bored.	01:24
kirma	I actually think european media is gentle to them, but they're completely uninterested to spin their own ultra-selfish actions in believably positive light.	01:24
andre_	and they probably don't have good boats and weapons because they are stupid.	01:25
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andre_	sure. but why should they care about what others think, if nobody cared about somalia for 15 years? :-)	01:25
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andre_	if european ships take away your fish and dump their waste in front of your coast i'd also think about how to pay back.	01:26
andre_	(still it's both criminal of course. it's not that I want to say that it's good what they do.)	01:27
kirma	if you look at historical records, you can see that fishing has never been actually big part of society in somalia. and I doubt if any country has right to demand that other countries should come to solve their own problems, and threat with trouble if they don't.	01:29
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kirma	but I'd say: back to the topic, political discussions are usually not so fruitful...	01:29
andre_	true :-)	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Yeah! Let's talk about how much bugzilla sucks instead. :P	01:30
kirma	at least that's politics that somehow touches us ;)	01:30
qwerty12_N810	Yeah, that bug"master" even more so! ;P	01:31
kirma	anyway... bedtime ->	01:31
andre_	GeneralAntilles, tell me, tell me! :-P	01:31
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range	GeneralAntilles: Other bug trackers suck too, at least bugzilla has the features :)	01:31
andre_	qwerty12_N810, who's that sucker?	01:31
GeneralAntilles	range, sarcasm context: bug #6272	01:32
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail	01:32
qwerty12_N810	andre_: Erm, looks around. Maybe I can get him or her to reveal themselves with a piece of chocolate	01:32
GeneralAntilles	Them, qwerty12_N810, _them_.	01:33
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range	GeneralAntilles: Ah, the Reverend. Well, yes, for beginners Mantis seems to be more user friendly.	01:33
range	For bug takers, it really isn't.	01:33
* qwerty12_N810 growls at the pedant that is GeneralAntilles		01:34
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* GeneralAntilles thwaps qwerty12_N810 on the muzzle.		01:34
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Jaffa	All bug trackers suck; and there are valid points in the tmo thread which andre_ says are fixed in a later Bugzilla build.	01:37
GeneralAntilles	Indeed	01:39
* GeneralAntilles has a few ideas about the guided form.		01:39
andre_	i should check out the guided form in the 3.4 landfill test installation once my workmachine is usable again (upgrading distro currently)	01:40
GeneralAntilles	andre_, what are those grayed out strings that disappear when you click a text field called?	01:40
GeneralAntilles	We need some of those.	01:40
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andre_	ah. good question.	01:41
GeneralAntilles	Short strings to indicate what should be in a field.	01:42
andre_	yes, i understand	01:42
GeneralAntilles	andre_, yeah, not sure why I typed that.	01:43
GeneralAntilles	I think I was going to come up with a good example, but it didn't happen.	01:43
* GeneralAntilles is distracted watching The Office.		01:43
andre_	US version, I assume?	01:43
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GeneralAntilles	Indeed	01:44
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javispedro	are you trying to track the N900 as they're shipped through the world?	01:46
javispedro	crazy, crasy, crazy stuff :)	01:46
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GeneralAntilles	andre_, tooltips could also be handy.	01:47
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andre_	if people get it that they exist	01:47
Stskeeps	javispedro: any luck with the new shipment?	01:47
GeneralAntilles	andre_, you know those little Web 2.0 pixelart question marks they put by form items?	01:47
javispedro	Stskeeps: no, same results...	01:47
Stskeeps	javispedro: k	01:47
andre_	oh yeah!	01:48
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timeless_mbp	oh!	01:52
timeless_mbp	did anyone take any new photos of the nokia store in HEL?	01:52
* andre_ wonders whether there is a Nokia store in this town too that he could annoy :-P		01:53
timeless_mbp	andre_: there's one in Chicago, IL, one in NYC	01:53
timeless_mbp	iirc there's one in Tokyo	01:53
andre_	okay. sounds like very few towns	01:54
timeless_mbp	iirc there are <10	01:54
timeless_mbp	http://www.flagship.nokia.com/	01:55
timeless_mbp	9 in fact	01:55
timeless_mbp	so precisely <10	01:55
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timeless_mbp	wait	01:56
timeless_mbp	omigosh	01:56
timeless_mbp	Nokia = Stupid	01:56
timeless_mbp	they have a flagship store in .br	01:56
timeless_mbp	and no one thought to warn them that Ovi was taken?	01:56
luke-jr	?	01:57
timeless_mbp	http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE58N6QT20090924	01:58
sp3000	timeless_mbp: did you notice the mexican bit is misspelled in the fp flash	01:59
timeless_mbp	the site was pure flash, my eyes glazed over	01:59
timeless_mbp	sp3000: that's impressive	02:00
timeless_mbp	3points	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Nokia sure loves Flash.	02:00
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* timeless_mbp wonders if they actually spell the store name "Cuidad [sic] de México"		02:00
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GeneralAntilles	Nice	02:00
timeless_mbp	credit to sp3000	02:00
timeless_mbp	consistency @nokia is um...	02:01
timeless_mbp	incredibly bad when it comes to es-MX	02:01
GeneralAntilles	Incredibly bad when it comes to anything.	02:02
GeneralAntilles	Except, perhaps, for being inconsistent.	02:02
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timeless_mbp	nice	02:04
timeless_mbp	the spanish video has random English text	02:04
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timeless_mbp	btw, how does nokia spell 'en es ee arr eye ee ess' ?	02:05
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lcuk	timeless, they spell it the same, with extra spaces occasionally dont they	02:07
lcuk	that hurt my head more than the stuff ive been doin today	02:07
* lcuk won tho		02:07
timeless_mbp	Nseries or nseries?	02:07
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lcuk	ahhh case sensitive	02:08
timeless_mbp	wow, the nokia store has n800s and n810s	02:08
lcuk	id tell you to go look on the site	02:09
lcuk	but you will find all variations no doubt lol	02:09
lcuk	o_O really?	02:09
lcuk	800s still?	02:09
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timeless_mbp	dunno	02:10
timeless_mbp	presumably they never update their cr*p	02:10
luke-jr	what price?	02:13
timeless_mbp	sorry, never been south of the border	02:13
timeless_mbp	well, i've been to http://www.thesouthoftheborder.com/	02:13
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tad_	tis quiet	02:18
sgbirch	Everyone is asleep dreaming of n900	02:20
Xisdibik	sgbirch: wrong, im day dreaming of mine	02:20
Macer	I'M IN CHICAGO	02:20
Macer	woop! let me go downtown and see if they have one :D	02:20
Xisdibik	Macer: how do you like living in the city with the highest homicide rate in the US? ;)	02:21
Macer	really? we made the highest huh?	02:21
Macer	usually it is a contest with NYC	02:21
Macer	haha	02:21
Xisdibik	i think so	02:21
Macer	i know we have the highest sales tax	02:21
tad_	n900	02:21
Macer	Xisdibik: year isn't over yet ;)	02:21
Xisdibik	how high is it there?	02:21
tad_	id like one	02:21
Macer	usually we are neck and neck with NYC	02:21
Macer	ironically enough	02:21
Macer	people here think it is something to be proud of haha	02:22
Xisdibik	how high is the sales tax there?	02:22
Macer	10.25%	02:22
Xisdibik	damn lol	02:22
Xisdibik	yea its like 9.75% here	02:22
Macer	Xisdibik: yeah... it's rough ;)	02:22
Macer	highest in the US	02:22
Xisdibik	we compete with NYC for most expensive housing market though	02:22
Xisdibik	:D	02:22
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Macer	we don't.... nyc is outrageous.. like CA market	02:23
Xisdibik	we being the area i am	02:23
* Xisdibik lives in CA		02:23
Macer	i never understood that either. the houses in CA are of such disgusting quality	02:23
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Macer	like... lego building	02:23
Xisdibik	Macer: depends where you go	02:23
Xisdibik	my moms house is really nice	02:23
Macer	i was in SD	02:23
Xisdibik	as is my grandmothers	02:23
Xisdibik	well thats Socal :P	02:23
Macer	and they had that lego crap	02:23
Macer	:)	02:23
Xisdibik	the real housing market expenses are in SF bay area	02:23
Macer	where they could put a building together in 1 week	02:23
Macer	with fabricated bricks	02:24
sgbirch	Try 17.5% ... uk	02:24
Macer	heh	02:24
Macer	sgbirch: yeah.. but you have something to show for your taxes	02:24
Macer	we have debt and tanks	02:24
Xisdibik	sgbirch: that seems lower than it used to be	02:24
sgbirch	And 50% marginable income tax	02:24
Macer	ouch	02:24
Xisdibik	wasnt it like 21%+ a while ago?	02:24
Macer	sgbirch: streets paved in gold? :)	02:24
Xisdibik	Macer: no, bricks	02:25
Macer	Xisdibik: seriously?	02:25
Macer	we used to have brick streets	02:25
Xisdibik	some parts of UK yea	02:25
Xisdibik	;)	02:25
Macer	shame we don't anymore	02:25
sgbirch	Brits loves paying tax	02:26
sp3000	...gold bricks	02:26
javispedro	oh, someone reused my argument in the java thread.	02:27
Xisdibik	we have a brick road that winds left and right	02:27
Xisdibik	Lombard Street	02:28
Xisdibik	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Sanfran_61_bg_032605.jpg	02:28
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Anpr	hello guys	02:29
Xisdibik	hello Anpr	02:29
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microlith	Xisdibik: considering some of the other streets, I wonder why they went through the difficulty of doing that	02:29
Anpr	how are u ? any news ?	02:29
Xisdibik	microlith: not sure actualy reads the wiki	02:30
Xisdibik	The switchbacks design, first suggested by property owner Carl Henry and instituted in 1922, was born out of necessity in order to reduce the hill's natural 27% grade, which was too steep for most vehicles to climb.	02:31
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microlith	ahh	02:31
microlith	others might think "maybe a road shouldn't go here"	02:32
Xisdibik	Americans are stubborn :)	02:32
microlith	no joke	02:32
microlith	although I imagine it's fun to go down :)	02:32
Xisdibik	it is	02:32
Xisdibik	my friend went down it on something i totally forgot what its called	02:33
Xisdibik	its like putting scateboard wheels on tiny little platforms	02:33
Xisdibik	and going down on two of them, one for each foot	02:33
microlith	oh, sorta like doing a slalom, only without snow	02:34
Xisdibik	mmm	02:34
Xisdibik	not really	02:34
Xisdibik	let me try to find it	02:34
GeneralAntilles	Rollerskating? :P	02:35
lcuk	timeless, mxr cross reference, im just wanting to search for all instances of a function in use.	02:35
Xisdibik	no, they are not attached to your feet	02:35
lcuk	within a set of files	02:35
Xisdibik	its like two little skateboards with one wheel each	02:35
timeless_mbp	lcuk: sure	02:35
lcuk	http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/search	02:35
lcuk	i got that far	02:35
Chani	o.0	02:35
lcuk	the "in files matching" area	02:36
timeless_mbp	if you want an identifier search, you're using the wrong entrypoint	02:36
lcuk	is it simply gary for everything with gary in	02:36
timeless_mbp	search is vaguely plain text	02:36
lcuk	filename wise	02:36
timeless_mbp	it's a regexp against the file path	02:36
timeless_mbp	but again, you have the wrong entrypoint assuming you can spell the function name correctly	02:36
lcuk	cool, so complete control when searching	02:36
timeless_mbp	pretty much	02:36
timeless_mbp	oh, for fremantle you almost certainly want to use a file limited search	02:37
timeless_mbp	as i think the db might be too large for search to work otherwise	02:37
lcuk	yeah i know	02:37
timeless_mbp	not certain but...	02:37
lcuk	i know which area im looking	02:37
timeless_mbp	for ident search, that's not required	02:37
lcuk	i just wanted to see if it matched with the sort of results i used to have in windows	02:37
lcuk	(i had my own file search doofer)	02:37
lcuk	im not interested in references outside a very specific area	02:38
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lcuk	and i know there will be loads	02:38
javispedro	ali1234: it's not because it's using ogles instead of ogl.	02:38
javispedro	ali1234: you're hitting a clutter bug.	02:38
timeless_mbp	in general you should probably just use /fremantle/ instead of picking a specific version	02:38
timeless_mbp	they're unlikely to change particularly often	02:38
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ali1234	javispedro: the blue/orange thing?	02:38
lcuk	i have done with every other time, but you highlight the different versions on the frontpage	02:39
ali1234	the GL/GLES thing causes bezier surfaces not to work	02:39
javispedro	ali1234: yes	02:39
lcuk	i tohught there might be a reason	02:39
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ali1234	hence missing features	02:39
timeless_mbp	not really, just being silly i suppose	02:39
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javispedro	ali1234: missing features in the ogre ogles backend	02:39
javispedro	?	02:39
lcuk	nahh making it clear which is there	02:39
ali1234	probably yes	02:39
* timeless_mbp nods		02:39
ali1234	if you try to make a bezier patch, the call succeeds but when you try to instantiate it, it doesn't work	02:40
ali1234	probably just not implemented. normal meshes work fine	02:40
ali1234	it basically all works fine, just needs a little bit of polish, and packaging	02:40
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javispedro	ali1234: the blue/orange stuff will work fine on device, or in SDK if you apply patch in bug #4870	02:47
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK	02:47
ali1234	i'm running it on the device	02:47
javispedro	oh, then that's interesting.	02:48
lcuk	ali1234, did you "fix" your code in the sdk at some point	02:48
ali1234	i didn't know the sdk even had gles emulation	02:48
javispedro	then forget about everything I said :)	02:48
javispedro	it does.	02:48
javispedro	only in x86 target.	02:49
ali1234	lcuk: what do you mean?	02:49
lcuk	or could someone else - ie a patch was made in userland code to fix the apparant bug in the sdk	02:49
ali1234	the x libs thing?	02:49
javispedro	doubt it.	02:49
ali1234	i don't know what is causingit	02:49
ali1234	i just skipped compiling all the things that need X, namely the tools and the samples. you don't need them	02:50
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ali1234	it could be worked around in the cmake rules probably, but i don't know how cmake decides what libraries to link or add extra ones to it	02:50
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lcuk	in the last 24h ive gone from 1 screen to 2, and i find now i have 2, i could really do with 4 or more	02:52
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javispedro	lcuk: how true ... :P	02:56
javispedro	sometimes I wish I've stayed with just 1.	02:56
lcuk	i was happy	02:56
lcuk	its actually linux thats more optimized for more	02:56
CoreFusion-	damn that Borderlands has me hooked	02:56
lcuk	or unoptimized	02:56
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RXrenesis8	don't worry, play it for a week and you'll be at level 50 with two playthroughs done and have nothing left to do.	02:58
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* lcuk has neckache		03:10
lcuk	im not used to looking around so much when using computer, im sure im gonna have a suntan in the morning too	03:10
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microlith	how big are the monitors?	03:11
Macer	It may seem impossible that two galaxies on opposite sides can be separated by 93 billion light years after only 13 billion years, since special relativity states that matter cannot be accelerated to exceed the speed of light in a localized region of space-time. However, according to general relativity, space can expand with no intrinsic limit on its rate; thus, two galaxies can separate more quickly than the speed of light if the space between them grows.	03:11
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javispedro	the monitors are galaxy sized?	03:12
Macer	ah yes. the expansion paradox	03:12
Macer	einstein fails us again :)	03:12
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Macer	the universe can expand at ftl speeds but matter within it cannot travel faster than light	03:13
Macer	lies	03:13
Macer	heh	03:13
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk, I'm at 4 at the moment.	03:15
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, was at 6 for a little while	03:15
GeneralAntilles	but 4 works pretty well.	03:15
w00t_	6 monitors?	03:15
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, 2x 23.5", 2x 20", 2x 19" (widescreen).	03:16
w00t_	yeek.	03:16
w00t_	most I've had was two, I'd like three	03:16
w00t_	but that isn't likely for a while given I mostly work on laptops nowdays	03:17
GeneralAntilles	Laptops suck.	03:18
RXrenesis8	pfft	03:19
GeneralAntilles	4 is ideal at this resolution, I think.	03:19
GeneralAntilles	GTFO with your crappy MacBook Pro.	03:19
RXrenesis8	pfffffft	03:19
GeneralAntilles	http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3981783507/	03:19
RXrenesis8	I'd like to see you fit your mac pro in a carryon bag	03:19
GeneralAntilles	You don't have too many far-flung outliers and there's enough space to put stuff.	03:19
GeneralAntilles	RXrenesis8, Forza 3 instead?	03:20
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GeneralAntilles	RXrenesis8, that's what I have my N900 and (sometimes) my Mini 9 for.	03:21
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w00t_	GeneralAntilles: depends, mine is ok really	03:33
w00t_	it suits me, it's not for everyone ;p	03:33
GeneralAntilles	w00t_, I've got a Mac Pro with a billion and one hard drives, 2 graphics cards, 8GB of RAM, and 8 cores. :P	03:33
w00t_	sure	03:34
w00t_	I don't need that :p	03:34
lpotter	thats not enough ram	03:34
w00t_	and for when I do, I have a desktop	03:34
GeneralAntilles	lpotter, agreed, but I have to wait for more money. :D	03:34
w00t_	but I use that about once per 3 months	03:35
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/photos/	03:36
lpotter	how you going to run scratchbox on that?	03:36
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, those pictures are all sideways.	03:44
timeless_mbp	yeah... dunno why	03:44
timeless_mbp	seems like the camera cheats	03:45
timeless_mbp	and relies on EXIF	03:45
timeless_mbp	which the browser doesn't know to use	03:45
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, why are these relevant?	03:45
* timeless_mbp shrugs		03:46
timeless_mbp	that's the nokia store in HEL	03:46
timeless_mbp	i'll take photos of what it looks like now at some point (maybe)	03:47
timeless_mbp	there's actually an n900 in one of the windows	03:47
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, I know the N900's fat, but I believe that's actually a giant N97. g	03:56
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luke-jr	wtf?	03:59
Xisdibik	GeneralAntilles: how dare you talk about the n900 like that	04:03
Xisdibik	she is NOT fat!	04:03
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RXrenesis8	I want to ride my bicycle	04:06
Shapeshifter	Who's this "Eldar"?	04:07
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GeneralAntilles	Shapeshifter, some Russian blogger.	04:09
microlith	his name confused me at first	04:14
microlith	(I had warhammer 40k on the brain at the time)	04:14
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tadthebuilder	so are most people satisfied with their n900's?	04:16
lpotter	I might be if I had one	04:17
auenf	i would be if nokia would consider bringing it out here	04:17
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tadthebuilder	heh	04:17
microlith	fuck	04:18
tadthebuilder	i cant get one unless the price drops alot myself	04:18
microlith	chase denied my transaction with nokia	04:18
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microlith	great, time to call them	04:19
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Robot101	tadthebuilder: seen them on amazon.com? they're <$500 if you get the $50 rebate	04:19
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microlith	I wish you didn't have to already have a nokia phone to be able to track your order progress online	04:20
tadthebuilder	robot, waiting on a used oen	04:20
tadthebuilder	one*	04:20
tadthebuilder	cannot afford 500 dollars on a phone right now...	04:20
microlith	man what the hell is the point of having a credit card if their default behavior is to deny charges over a (rather) low amount	04:21
DeadDodo	microlight: To build up a credit rating if you should need one later.	04:21
SpeedEvil	tadthebuilder: If you're overweight, try the n900 diet plan. Eat half the food to compensate for buying the n900.	04:23
tadthebuilder	welll	04:23
tadthebuilder	id probably die	04:23
SpeedEvil	(though /me is only on 2/3, not 1/2)	04:23
microlith	fucking credit card	04:24
SpeedEvil	:/	04:24
tadthebuilder	ill just stick with my n800 till they show up used	04:24
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luke-jr	I'll just stick with my N810 until someone makes a decent handheld >.>	04:25
DeadDodo	No one will ever make a decent handheld.	04:25
luke-jr	DeadDodo: Zaurus SL-C760 was for its time	04:26
javispedro	DeadDodo: quite appropiate name.	04:26
DeadDodo	Didn't that have a tiny keyboard, or am I think of a different model?	04:26
javispedro	luke-jr: decent handhelds are gone the way of the dodo.	04:26
javispedro	i learned that 4 years ago.	04:26
javispedro	this is the age of the iphone.	04:26
DeadDodo	Psion used to make some very nice handhelds 10 years ago.	04:27
microlith	oh goddamnit	04:27
microlith	they've been blocking everything for the past week	04:27
luke-jr	javispedro: :(	04:27
luke-jr	DeadDodo: it had a VERY NICE keyboard	04:27
GeneralAntilles	Ah, welcome back, tadthebuilder. :)	04:27
DeadDodo	Then I've mistaken it for another model. Was this one of those clamshell types?	04:27
GeneralAntilles	Post-congratulations. :)	04:27
tadthebuilder	haha	04:27
tadthebuilder	thanks	04:27
luke-jr	DeadDodo: yes	04:27
tadthebuilder	i was a little slow on the internets getting up	04:28
tadthebuilder	how is everything going generalantilles	04:28
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tadthebuilder	lcuk you here?	04:30
lcuk	ish	04:31
tadthebuilder	how are you doing man?	04:31
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* lcuk untangles keyboard		04:32
lcuk	im doing great i think! how are you	04:32
tadthebuilder	doing well	04:32
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* lcuk nods		04:32
tadthebuilder	happily married	04:32
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tadthebuilder	you still looking for a job?	04:33
lcuk	heh so now no way to sneak an n900 on the credit card lol	04:33
lcuk	no tadthebuilder :) i am now gainfully employed (though still finding my feet)	04:33
tadthebuilder	glad to hear it	04:33
tadthebuilder	yeah no way for a n900	04:33
tadthebuilder	no budget either...:)	04:33
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tadthebuilder	its all good	04:33
tadthebuilder	rather have a wife than an n900	04:33
tadthebuilder	n800 still works	04:34
lcuk	i think the suggestion earlier by SpeedEvil was cool	04:34
tadthebuilder	heh	04:34
tadthebuilder	well I have no weight to lose	04:34
lcuk	holy crap it connected	04:34
tadthebuilder	im 6 3 and I weight about 140	04:34
tadthebuilder	(I should probably convert that...)	04:34
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lcuk	nahhh	04:35
lcuk	and its gone again	04:35
lcuk	wireless network is bein a sod	04:35
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tadthebuilder	any updates on liqbase since my last being on?	04:36
lcuk	tadthebuilder, there is a maemo long weekend event happening in Barcelona start of next month.	04:36
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lcuk	some of Nokias top UX team are coming over and discussing with some developers and innovators	04:36
lcuk	and liqbase calendar is on the agenda :)	04:37
* GeneralAntilles yawns.		04:37
tadthebuilder	well thats cool	04:37
tadthebuilder	and exciting for you	04:37
GeneralAntilles	tadthebuilder, no more cold hotdogs? ;)	04:37
lcuk	indeed	04:37
tadthebuilder	where do you work no	04:37
tadthebuilder	haha exactly	04:37
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lcuk	i work with collabora, based in cambridge	04:37
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tadthebuilder	i like the ninja	04:38
lcuk	heh	04:38
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tadthebuilder	yeah so I googled it	04:38
GeneralAntilles	Big Maemo contractor.	04:38
* lcuk is slowly getting over hurdles		04:39
tadthebuilder	ah okay	04:39
lcuk	i seem to find every single pothole along the way :D	04:39
tadthebuilder	makes for a fun ride though, as long as your neck is tough	04:40
lcuk	heh just moaning tonight about neck ache	04:41
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lcuk	ive gone from 1 monitor to 2	04:41
Robot101	o/	04:41
lcuk	but now i need more	04:41
tadthebuilder	add a third	04:41
Robot101	evening lcuk	04:41
lcuk	hey Robot101 \o	04:41
* Robot101 has a bit of neckache using his old desktop PC on the projector :)		04:41
lcuk	tadthebuilder, i need about 10 with linux	04:41
lcuk	i was happy with the one before lol	04:42
* Robot101 put a new gfx card in so he can drive the projector at 1080P HD		04:42
tadthebuilder	hey the more monitors the better	04:42
Robot101	lcuk: you should have another on tues :)	04:42
lcuk	wicked :D	04:42
Robot101	GeneralAntilles: we're not that big, only around 50 of us :D	04:42
GeneralAntilles	Robot101, I should say, relative to some of the other contractors.	04:42
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, Samsung 2343b,x	04:43
GeneralAntilles	s/,/w/	04:43
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: lcukw Samsung 2343b,x	04:43
* GeneralAntilles tried to type qwerty there for a second.		04:43
lcuk	Robot101, i think i have it running :)	04:43
lcuk	how big is the projectection?	04:44
* tadthebuilder is confused by infobot		04:44
lcuk	infobot rocks!	04:44
infobot	yes I do	04:44
lcuk	he got upgraded recently	04:44
lcuk	:D hahaha	04:44
tadthebuilder	where did he come from?	04:44
GeneralAntilles	tadthebuilder, I should've used s/,/w/2	04:44
tadthebuilder	or is it actually a person	04:44
GeneralAntilles	Been here forever.	04:44
crashanddie	it's probably a sign	04:44
GeneralAntilles	It's a person	04:44
crashanddie	PS3 just crashed	04:44
Robot101	lcuk: its widescreen, about 3m x 1.5m I guess	04:45
GeneralAntilles	Who's parsing all of our requests.	04:45
GeneralAntilles	He's very dedicated.	04:45
GeneralAntilles	~botsnack	04:45
infobot	GeneralAntilles: thanks	04:45
tadthebuilder	i am very confused	04:45
Robot101	maybe a bit less, I'm crap at estimating distances	04:45
GeneralAntilles	tadthebuilder, it's a bot. ;)	04:45
Robot101	pretty big though :)	04:45
GeneralAntilles	He stores factoids for us	04:45
tadthebuilder	thankyou	04:45
GeneralAntilles	~mer	04:45
infobot	hmm... mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer	04:45
GeneralAntilles	does substitutins	04:45
tadthebuilder	ah isee	04:45
Robot101	I don't have the right cable or I'd plug my N900 in :)	04:45
GeneralAntilles	s/ins/ions/	04:45
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: does substitutions	04:45
GeneralAntilles	and has stupid little features like	04:46
GeneralAntilles	~3d2	04:46
GeneralAntilles	~roll 3d2	04:46
* infobot stuffs 3d2 in a hamster ball and rolls it down a steep, snow-covered mountain		04:46
lcuk	my cats went mental chasing tux last time i had a projector here	04:46
tadthebuilder	i thought it was actually going to roll the dice	04:46
* GeneralAntilles smacks infobot		04:46
lcuk	they also like line drawing	04:46
GeneralAntilles	~coin	04:46
tadthebuilder	we could play d&d haha	04:46
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, coin is flipped... heads or tails?	04:46
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GeneralAntilles	~lart infobot	04:46
* infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking generalantilles's head off		04:46
tadthebuilder	its a little violent	04:46
GeneralAntilles	Indeed	04:47
lcuk	you would be too if you had to answer the chatter in #maemo all day	04:47
tadthebuilder	anyone now anything about suddenlink cable companies internet provider?	04:47
crashanddie	~lart infobat	04:47
* infobot changes infobat's permissions to 0777 and tells the world		04:47
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tadthebuilder	true good point	04:47
crashanddie	s/bat/bot/	04:47
infobot	crashanddie meant: ~lart infobot	04:47
lcuk	Robot101, did you get your bios updated	04:47
lcuk	n900 should have a floppy drive	04:48
tadthebuilder	i really dont understand the subtitution thing	04:48
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lcuk	tadthebuilder, s/oldthing/newthing/ based on the last thing a person said	04:48
tadthebuilder	ah okay	04:48
tadthebuilder	now I understand	04:48
crashanddie	tadthebuilder, it matches the first part, and replaces the first occurrence of it with second part	04:48
crashanddie	fur example	04:48
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crashanddie	s/u/o/	04:49
crashanddie	fail, bot is gone	04:49
infobot	crashanddie meant: for example	04:49
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crashanddie	wb all	04:49
crashanddie	but then you can also do global	04:49
tadthebuilder	okay	04:49
tadthebuilder	understood	04:49
javispedro	~rot13 fgbc zvfhfvat zr!	04:49
infobot	stop misusing me!	04:49
crashanddie	in which case, it'll replace all occurences	04:49
crashanddie	s/i/o/g	04:49
infobot	crashanddie meant: on whoch case, ot'll replace all occurences	04:49
tadthebuilder	hey general you seem to know everything, know anything about suddenlink?	04:50
tadthebuilder	that is really cool.	04:51
tadthebuilder	I love infobot	04:51
GeneralAntilles	Nope	04:51
GeneralAntilles	I'm familiar with Brighthouse and Comcast.	04:51
GeneralAntilles	One of which sucks a little bit and one of which is the spawn of the devil.	04:51
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tadthebuilder	ah okay	04:52
tadthebuilder	im just paranoid of cable internet providers	04:52
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tadthebuilder	i know most of them have really strict guidelines	04:52
tadthebuilder	ive heard of some that dont let you use your own wireless router	04:52
GeneralAntilles	http://www.dslreports.com/forum/cebridge	04:52
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microlith	comcast's quality varies by region	04:54
GeneralAntilles	microlith, from shit to worse.	04:54
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microlith	oddly I've had no issue with them	04:54
tadthebuilder	i just hate how unlimited plans arent unlimited	04:54
tadthebuilder	im mostly worried about the wireless router though	04:54
tadthebuilder	I have one	04:54
tadthebuilder	and i know they have a plan where they install wireless into your house	04:55
microlith	granted the service I'm paying for is barely better than what I had in Japan in 2003	04:55
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microlith	which makes no sense, but still	04:55
tadthebuilder	so im paranoid that they wont let me use their wireless router	04:55
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tadthebuilder	i mean us my wireless router	04:55
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microlith	tadthebuilder: if you turn down their router, you can just use yours	04:56
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microlith	they can't block yours or somesuch	04:56
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tadthebuilder	i know they cannot stop it	04:56
tadthebuilder	but cant they forbid it in the user agreement?	04:56
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GeneralAntilles	Usually they don't.	04:57
GeneralAntilles	Most of them have no reason to.	04:57
tadthebuilder	ah okay	04:57
luke-jr	usually they do forbid sharing with other people, though	04:57
tadthebuilder	well my issue is I have two choices	04:57
tadthebuilder	them or embarq dsl	04:57
tadthebuilder	I dont like dsl speeds	04:57
tadthebuilder	and im hoping to use voip (maybe even magic jack) because I have a cell phone and dont need a landline	04:57
tadthebuilder	in my opinion I dont need anything	04:57
GeneralAntilles	I'd probably go with cable.	04:58
tadthebuilder	but my wife wants some type of house phone	04:58
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tadthebuilder	cable is advertising at a cheaper rate to	04:58
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tadthebuilder	20 bucks a month, even if its by itself	04:58
microlith	for how long?	04:58
tadthebuilder	though I know that an introductory rate	04:58
microlith	heh	04:58
tadthebuilder	doesnt say how long	04:58
tadthebuilder	or what the price will change too	04:58
tadthebuilder	I really dont like companies that do business like that	04:59
tadthebuilder	tell me what im going to pay when that price expires	04:59
crashanddie	meh	04:59
crashanddie	you pay $20 for a phone line?	05:00
tadthebuilder	20 dollars would be for their cable internet access	05:00
lcuk	which country are you in atm seb?	05:01
luke-jr	that's pretty standard for a phone line here...	05:01
crashanddie	uk	05:01
luke-jr	actually, rather low, except for VoIP	05:01
tadthebuilder	yeah	05:01
tadthebuilder	i realize that	05:01
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tadthebuilder	but 20 dollars for cable internet seems like a scam to me...	05:01
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tadthebuilder	haha	05:01
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GeneralAntilles	That's what I paid from Comcast for my first 12 months.	05:02
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luke-jr	tadthebuilder: $20 for cable internet is very low in the USA	05:02
tadthebuilder	its because their are tiers	05:02
tadthebuilder	of usage	05:02
tadthebuilder	speeds actually	05:02
luke-jr	it's usually like $45/mo	05:02
tadthebuilder	and that 1mbps	05:02
tadthebuilder	which is all they offer in my area	05:03
luke-jr	lol	05:03
GeneralAntilles	Ouch	05:03
tadthebuilder	im pretty sure that rules out reliable voip	05:03
luke-jr	I think mine is 15mbps	05:03
luke-jr	tadthebuilder: no, voip can work with dialup	05:03
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tadthebuilder	did not realize that	05:03
GeneralAntilles	20/2Mbps at my parent's house with VoIP, and digital cable for about $120 with taxes.	05:03
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luke-jr	tadthebuilder: compressed, of course	05:04
* GeneralAntilles stabs Freenode.		05:04
luke-jr	tadthebuilder: but GSM codec, which IIRC is what GSM phones use too	05:04
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tadthebuilder	ah I see	05:04
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tadthebuilder	im not entirely sure but I think that its not unlimited too	05:04
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tadthebuilder	or its unlimited sorta	05:04
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lcuk	at 1mbit max they could have a low limit and still never hit it	05:05
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tadthebuilder	pft	05:05
tadthebuilder	haha	05:05
derf	Wideband voice codecs work pretty well and 32kbps.	05:05
lcuk	you have to be burning up the copper to do that	05:05
derf	s/and/at	05:05
luke-jr	lcuk: most US ISPs have a 5 GB limit, which you can easily hit with 56kbps	05:06
luke-jr	cell phone ISPs*	05:06
derf	That's before overhead. UDP/RTP overhead will take up the rest of dial-up's 56kbps.	05:06
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* lcuk nods depends on usage of course		05:06
tadthebuilder	i would hit 5 gigs in a week	05:06
tadthebuilder	and also that price would not be what I get	05:06
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derf	luke-jr: I have never had a US ISP with a 5 GB limit.	05:06
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luke-jr	I used 3.2 GB today.	05:07
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luke-jr	and I don't think I even did any torrenting	05:07
tadthebuilder	thats for people who have tv service its twenty dollars a month to add internet	05:07
luke-jr	derf: cell phone ISP	05:07
tadthebuilder	i cannot find their typical price	05:07
derf	luke-jr: Oh. Yes.	05:07
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tadthebuilder	the problem is I dont want tv	05:08
tadthebuilder	if I have internet why would I need tv...	05:08
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crashanddie	Free.fr, 30eur pm, 28Meg dsl internet (100% unlimited), Free VOIP across any interesting part of the world (landlines only by default, mobiles included for US/Canada), + 300 TV channels provided through a set top box which does DVR (300gig HD) and can be connected through CPL or ethernet	05:09
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crashanddie	compete with that, bitch ;)	05:09
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tadthebuilder	thats sixty usd a month aproximately right?	05:10
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Robot101	hmmm...	05:10
Robot101	kensington trackball/mouse thing which doesn't use bluetooth: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-SlimBlade-Trackball-Mouse-Si860/dp/B000UR3TME	05:10
Robot101	or dedicated logitech trackball which does: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-904369-0914-Wireless-TrackMan-Optical/dp/B00006FMH1/	05:10
crashanddie	tadthebuilder, less, about 45	05:10
tadthebuilder	i live in the middle of nowwhere north carolina, which is why my options stink	05:11
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derf	tadthebuilder: Western half?	05:12
tadthebuilder	eastern half	05:13
tadthebuilder	martin county	05:13
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tadthebuilder	about an hour and a half west of nagshead	05:13
derf	Yes, that's also pretty much the middle of nowhere.	05:14
tadthebuilder	(maybe less, just movie here...)	05:14
tadthebuilder	live in a town of 7000 people I think	05:14
GeneralAntilles	Robot101, I really like the Kensingtons.	05:14
derf	A good friend of mine is from Clinton, but that's fairly well south of where you are.	05:14
GeneralAntilles	http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-Expert-Mouse-Trackball-compatible/dp/B00009KH63/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258859662&sr=1-24 was the one I used last	05:14
GeneralAntilles	Although it's been replaced by an MX Revolution for a few years.	05:14
zeenix	Robot101: can't sleep because of mice issues? :)	05:15
tadthebuilder	ah makes sense derf	05:15
RXrenesis8	So far the only thing I've been able to establish is that I suck at CTF	05:15
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GeneralAntilles	lol	05:15
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derf	I went to school in NC and my parents retired down there, so I've been all over the state.	05:16
derf	But still never quite to your neck of the woods.	05:16
Robot101	zeenix: lol, why are you awake? :P	05:16
tadthebuilder	there is nothing here worth seeing	05:16
Robot101	zeenix: I'm kinda on eastern time atm, not sure why	05:16
tadthebuilder	unless you like funs	05:16
tadthebuilder	guns*	05:16
tadthebuilder	there is store that claims to be the largest gun store in america	05:16
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derf	Yeah, at leats in the west you've got mountains.	05:16
Robot101	zeenix: playing with my PC on the projector, upgrading it and deciding how to control it from the sofa :)	05:16
derf	*least	05:16
tadthebuilder	I just moved here and its not horrible	05:17
tadthebuilder	but their isnt much either	05:17
tadthebuilder	"Typical usage" is defined as up to 21GB per month for users on their 1Mbps tier	05:17
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GeneralAntilles	Robot101, BlueMaemo!	05:17
tadthebuilder	they have not imposed caps	05:17
lcuk	Robot101, n900 + bluemaemo	05:17
lcuk	lol GeneralAntilles	05:17
Robot101	bluemaemo did f**k all for me	05:18
tadthebuilder	but they are using a tool to show how much usage someone as used	05:18
tadthebuilder	which is typically a step on the way to imposing limitations	05:18
GeneralAntilles	Robot101, try the new version in Extras-devel.	05:18
Robot101	I read the forums and fscked around editing crap and bla bla and it just sat there and did nothing	05:18
lcuk	Robot101, what exactly do you need	05:18
tadthebuilder	Suddenlink thinks e-mails are a useful metric when talking about consumption, proclaiming that their definition of normal usage allows you to send "1.5 million emails."	05:19
GeneralAntilles	Robot101, it's been updated quite recently.	05:19
tadthebuilder	thats what i use my highspeed internet for...	05:19
* lcuk has a remote control that works over ip, it should really use tubes		05:19
derf	It's not that they think it's "useful", it's that it's good marketing.	05:19
tadthebuilder	it seems like a pointless metric to me	05:20
derf	To people who don't know anything, which is most of them, that sounds like an absurd abundance.	05:20
tadthebuilder	its like when a harddrive tells me how many mp3s it can hold...	05:20
lcuk	tadthebuilder, you DO send out 1.5million emails a week tho lol	05:21
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tadthebuilder	definitly	05:21
tadthebuilder	its cause im actually a spambot	05:21
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Robot101	GeneralAntilles: yeah I saw, lemme give it a try	05:22
Robot101	lcuk: just a pointer device to drive it from my sofa	05:22
Robot101	I got a kbd	05:22
lcuk	technically a wiimote would be perfect	05:22
lcuk	aim at screen	05:23
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Robot101	I have a wiimote, it sucks	05:25
Robot101	well, I don't have the "sensor bar" (ie, two points of IR light)	05:25
Robot101	so it just acts as a relative input device	05:25
lcuk	simple accelerometer ala n900	05:25
Robot101	you have to rotate/tilt it to move anywhere, and level it to stop moving	05:25
GeneralAntilles	Robot101, just get a freaking sensor bar.	05:26
Robot101	which is pretty loss for a mouse	05:26
Robot101	GeneralAntilles: I dunno if that will actually make it work with wminput though	05:26
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, which is exactly why Nintendo went with the sensor bar approach. :P	05:26
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, robot101 is right, the driver and software to run it isnt in use afaik	05:27
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Robot101	wminput is this weird thing which you need to run each time, and re-pair the wiimote	05:27
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Robot101	its not plain-sailing like bluetooth hid	05:27
lcuk	heh, the remote i use from n900 to my win desktop is ip	05:27
lcuk	ive never configured it beyond telling it ip	05:28
lcuk	and i can change the channel from anywhere in the world :D	05:28
* lcuk huggles his zapto.org ip		05:28
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tadthebuilder	dsl is faster...	05:29
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lcuk	tadthebuilder, faster in best case, have your line checked to be certain	05:29
tadthebuilder	well	05:29
lcuk	i must go tho	05:29
tadthebuilder	i probably wont do it	05:29
tadthebuilder	have a nice night man	05:29
lcuk	gnite folks \o great to see you tad	05:30
Robot101	night lcuk	05:30
tadthebuilder	great to see you too	05:30
tadthebuilder	hope your enjoying your job	05:30
tadthebuilder	see ya around	05:30
lcuk	nite Robot101 GeneralAntilles etc \o	05:30
* GeneralAntilles throws paper wads at lcuk on his way out the door.		05:30
tadthebuilder	im out too actually	05:30
tadthebuilder	nice seeing yall again. if anyone has an extra n900 send it my way	05:30
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tadthebuilder	ill be around from time to time	05:31
tadthebuilder	bye.	05:31
RXrenesis8	ok, camping works	05:31
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GeneralAntilles	That was my strategy.	05:32
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crashanddie	second PS3 crash in a few hours	05:45
GeneralAntilles	Woo	05:45
crashanddie	btw, I think the last upgrade actually helped	05:46
crashanddie	I got a full 2 days of very strong usage out of the N900	05:46
crashanddie	(roughly 8 hours of mp3, 3 hours of browsing, 1 hour of phone and email)	05:46
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ali1234	playing mp3s is peanuts these days, with dsp and stuff	05:50
crashanddie	dsp is not used for mp3 IIRC	05:50
ali1234	oh realy? that sucks...	05:50
crashanddie	because the cost of keeping the DSP on (from a battery perspective) was higher than running it on the CPU	05:51
ali1234	that seems very counter intuitive	05:51
ali1234	maybe the dsp is just overkill in this case	05:51
ali1234	i mean, if the dsp would only be 1% utilized by decoding the mp3...	05:52
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Flandry_	why would they include such an overpowered DSP?	05:54
SpeedEvil	h264	05:55
SpeedEvil	and friends	05:55
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SpeedEvil	Of course - the nice way to do it would be to power up the DSP, decode 10M of raw audio, and send it back to sleep.	05:55
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Flandry_	the dsp does h264?	06:02
luke-jr	the dsp is just an alternate instruction set...	06:02
luke-jr	you can run whatever decoder you write for it	06:02
Flandry_	i'm just impressed i guess	06:03
Flandry_	is that what the NEON thing is for?	06:03
luke-jr	crashanddie: what are you talking about DSP on/off? it's not seperate from the CPU	06:03
luke-jr	Flandry_: no, I think NEON is different	06:03
luke-jr	NEON is extensions to normal ARM	06:03
Flandry_	they are separate chips	06:03
luke-jr	whereas the "DSP" is more like Jazelle and such	06:03
luke-jr	Flandry_: they aren't on N8x0 at least...	06:03
ali1234	DSP on/off is very much different from CPU on/off	06:04
Flandry_	i'm just going by the description of the OMAP chipset	06:04
luke-jr	Flandry_: OMAP is a single chip	06:04
Flandry_	talks about GPU, DSP and CPU like they are separate entities	06:04
ali1234	that's how ARM SoCs achieve such low power usage	06:04
luke-jr	Flandry_: they're logically different	06:05
luke-jr	like, you can have 3 partitions on a HD that are logically all different disks, but really only one disk	06:05
Flandry_	but obviously they can be powered independently	06:05
luke-jr	not exactly the same, since they're all the same type, but similar	06:06
Flandry_	otherwise it would be pointless	06:06
derf	They _are_ powered independently.	06:06
luke-jr	Flandry_: afaik the point of the DSP is merely marketting	06:06
ali1234	actually it's more like having a whole x86 motherboard etched into one chip	06:06
GAN900_	luke-jr, they can . . .	06:06
derf	Heck, CPUs often have individual logical units powered independently.	06:06
luke-jr	GAN900_: ?	06:06
GAN900_	What derf said.	06:06
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GAN900	NEON is SIMD	06:07
Flandry_	ah	06:07
GAN900	Like SSE or AlitVec	06:07
derf	Except a heck of a lot better than SSE.	06:07
Flandry_	does Gcc not target it by default?	06:07
GAN900	Right	06:07
luke-jr	the DSP instruction set is not general-purpose AFAIK	06:08
luke-jr	it might not fit within GCC's assumptions	06:08
GAN900	Flandy_, N900 uses the DSP for video stuff.	06:08
GAN900	Audio is ARM side since it's cheaper to power one thing than two.	06:09
GAN900	Pulse is probably a contributing factor there.	06:09
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ali1234	the ARM core isn't powerful enough to decode h264...	06:10
ali1234	(real time)	06:10
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derf	luke-jr: Yes it is.	06:11
Flandry_	so what does it take to get gcc to use NEON instructions?	06:11
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derf	No, it's pretty radically different from the type of CPUs gcc normally targets.	06:11
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derf	gcc could probably be made to target it, but without significant work the code it generated would be ungodly slow.	06:12
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GAN900	ali1234, yes it is.	06:13
ali1234	GAN900: ok, for a specific subset of h264 it is	06:14
derf	GAN900: Depends on the resolution.	06:14
GAN900	Depends on the size and you decoder, though	06:14
derf	And bitrate.	06:14
GAN900	Of course.	06:14
derf	You aren't doing 1080p on a 600 MHz ARM.	06:14
GAN900	Duh	06:14
derf	Of course, you aren't really doing that on a 430 MHz DSP, either.	06:14
ali1234	huh, that zoom2 demo is fake then?	06:15
GAN900	Anybody tried the NEON decoder on the N900 yet?	06:15
derf	"The" NEON decoder?	06:15
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GAN900	Somebody in #beagle was working on something.	06:18
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crashanddie	I'm in the wrong industry	06:29
GeneralAntilles	Dumbass.	06:30
crashanddie	Ubisoft scored $300M in the first 24 hours of the launch of Assassin's Creed 2	06:30
crashanddie	And some con artists managed to steal $9M in 30 minutes from RBS	06:30
GeneralAntilles	Oh, christ, this guy needs to fuck off. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385785#post385785	06:30
crashanddie	So respectively, they made as much as my company in 6 years and one quarter, excepted it's 24 hours and 30 minutes	06:31
Flandry	i've had him blocked for a month	06:31
Flandry	only time i've ever done that on a forum	06:31
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crashanddie	christaexport?	06:32
crashanddie	The religious fanatic?	06:32
KenYoung	Is this channel used for discussions of the N900, or does it have a separate IRC channel?	06:32
crashanddie	KenYoung, any Maemo related discussions are welcome	06:33
KenYoung	crashanddie, Thanks!	06:33
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johnx	morning all	06:44
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LurkerXXX__	I wish we knew when phones would be readily available. I'm getting tempted to drive to chicago.	06:59
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johnx	from where?	06:59
LurkerXXX__	cleveland	07:00
johnx	though, aren't they only available in chicago for people who had a preorder?	07:00
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GeneralAntilles	krisse on another user rampage.	07:00
johnx	hey GeneralAntilles. saw your post on deals.woot.com :)	07:00
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LurkerXXX__	apparently they filled a few orders made only a day or two before the pickup	07:00
johnx	huh	07:01
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I was sad to see the DROID way up on the popularity list.	07:01
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johnx	eh, it's not a bad phone really, but the n900 is better even when comparing just the hardware	07:01
GeneralAntilles	Android's more evil than the iPhone in my efes.	07:02
GeneralAntilles	s/efes/eyes/	07:02
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Android's more evil than the iPhone in my eyes.	07:02
johnx	wow. might want to get that iphone pulled out of your eye ... O_o	07:02
LurkerXXX__	Depends on what you want. The droid fits on a picket easier, and I wouldn't miss the tv-out.	07:02
johnx	so anyways, I've been fighting deals.woot.com's rss feed, trying to get yahoo pipes to eat it so I can run some serious filtering	07:02
johnx	LurkerXXX__, have you compared the keyboards to each other?	07:03
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I loved the invite email.	07:03
johnx	I love woot's writing in general	07:03
LurkerXXX__	johnx: yeah, I hate the droid keyboard. no feel.	07:03
LurkerXXX__	but the capacitive vs resistive screen is nice. It's all trade-offs.	07:03
johnx	yeah. how's the droid's camera?	07:03
LurkerXXX__	Now if I could get a droid phone running maemo, that might be nice.	07:04
LurkerXXX__	ok, its slow.	07:04
GeneralAntilles	LurkerXXX__, not likely.	07:04
LurkerXXX__	but I haven't seen how fast the N900's is, cause I can't get my hands on one.	07:04
johnx	GeneralAntilles, I wouldn't rule it out entirely. if we get more disenfranchised android owners, it might happen	07:04
GeneralAntilles	I can't believe christexaport's arrogance.	07:05
johnx	you must be new to the internet	07:05
Flandry	lol	07:06
LurkerXXX__	GeneralAntilles: they have pretty similar hardware. I wonder how difficult it would be for those in the know.	07:06
GeneralAntilles	He sounds like a telecommunications company PR person talking about municipal internet access.	07:06
Flandry	just block him and be done with it	07:06
johnx	ah, a new topic	07:06
johnx	is he for or against municipal wifi?	07:06
johnx	(though if he's against I probably fall out on the same side as him for different reasons)	07:06
GeneralAntilles	"Oh man, here's this thread with a proposal that could really help a lot of people stay in touch with what's going on in Maemo, I'm just going to take a giant dump on it then go to bed."	07:06
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385785#post385785	07:07
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I'm again municipal WiFi, but not for the reasons the telecommunications companies usually quote. ;)	07:07
* GeneralAntilles sighs.		07:08
GeneralAntilles	I really need to block Talk at the router.	07:08
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385818#post385818 Shit like that is just energy-killing.	07:08
johnx	wow. that's fantastically arrogant. :D that should go over real well	07:08
johnx	GeneralAntilles, a little diplomacy might help ... :/	07:10
Flandry	i recommend the six-shooter	07:10
GeneralAntilles	johnx, it never works.	07:10
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I've tried that approach many times in the past and usually people like geneven just end up coming out of the woodwork to stick knives in your kidneys.	07:11
GeneralAntilles	Not worth my time, certainly.	07:11
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johnx	yeah, but when whackjobs come out of nowhere to cut you down when you've been really diplomatic, it makes them look like idiots	07:12
Flandry	talk needs a finer filter for new posts	07:13
GeneralAntilles	johnx, sadly, lots of the people on Talk really dig that sort of stuff.	07:13
johnx	for the side bar?	07:13
Flandry	yeah	07:13
Flandry	i don't care about the million different threads in sales	07:14
johnx	yeah, I think it shouldn't pull from off-topic or threads that have 1) more than N votes -and- 2) a score below M	07:14
johnx	yeah, skipping sales might be nice as well	07:14
Flandry	ha yeah	07:14
johnx	GeneralAntilles, just remember, that you don't always need to be the one setting the record straight. sometimes it's ok just to let the drunks have a good old fashioned barfight, then take their wallets when they're unconscious and what were we talking about?	07:15
GeneralAntilles	johnx, yeah, I moved on to that a few months ago, but it's still disheartening to read posts like that (even when you're not participating).	07:16
johnx	for sure, which is the other feature I want on talk: "permanently ignore thread"	07:16
Flandry	they should just give General superr mod powers and discretion to delete and ban at will	07:17
Flandry	that would shake things up	07:17
johnx	sometimes reading talk is like watching the nightly fox news: death, starvation, what are the celebrities doing today? and sports	07:17
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GeneralAntilles	Flandry, I've turned that down already.	07:19
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Flandry	pity	07:23
RXrenesis8	seriously	07:23
johnx	GeneralAntilles, ah c'mon. We could call it the 'great cleansing' and have people sacrifice goats and everything. it'd be fun	07:24
GeneralAntilles	johnx, yeah, kill the Talk datacenter with fire.	07:24
johnx	jeez, work with me on terminology here: 'the purifying flame'	07:24
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GeneralAntilles	Cower before me! I shall bring down the flaming wrath of the Cabal and cleanse this stinking cesspool of noobishness henceforth!	07:26
johnx	getting into the spirit at least	07:26
johnx	make sure you get sign-off from marketing and PR before making any statements. kthx :)	07:26
GeneralAntilles	His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles hath spoken!	07:27
derf	I guess you got a promotion?	07:28
GeneralAntilles	Maemo Summit 2008	07:28
GeneralAntilles	I blame timsamoff.	07:28
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johnx	anyone else in the puget sound area?	07:42
johnx	looks like there's an N900 meetup in redmond, right on the microsoft campus on tuesday (yeah I know, if this was a movie it'd totally be some kind of trap...)	07:44
GeneralAntilles	It's a trap!	07:44
GeneralAntilles	You're going to capture everybody and turn them into WinMob fans.	07:44
johnx	yeah, that's why I'm trying to find someone else who is going to watch my back...	07:44
luke-jr	how dare he	07:44
GeneralAntilles	You guys are going to be on Microsoft commercials! O_o	07:44
luke-jr	is there an op here to minimize the damage?	07:44
johnx	eh, at least I can appease them by saying how much I like microsoft hardware	07:46
GeneralAntilles	Wont save you	07:47
johnx	well, if I'm going down, I'm taking them with me :>	07:48
johnx	the guy has an HD2 to show off as well	07:48
johnx	anyone know any zero-day exploits against winmo? <_<	07:48
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GeneralAntilles	lol	07:48
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johnx	seriously though. it should be a lot of fun. I think I should setup a lightweight http server to run off my N900 and serve pages over t-mo's 3G	07:52
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johnx	jeez. omweather just keeps getting better and better	08:00
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auenf	johnx, but will t-mo give you a non-nat interface?	08:30
auenf	or better yet, static ip?	08:30
johnx	nope	08:30
johnx	not for $10/month	08:30
johnx	I'll do ssh reverse tunneling I think	08:30
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auenf	(my phone has a static ip with no ports blocked/filtered)	08:30
jaem	morning folks	08:30
johnx	auenf, that's incredible. which carrier/plan?	08:30
johnx	mornin' jaem	08:30
auenf	australia	08:30
jaem	auenf, indeed	08:30
jaem	wow	08:30
jaem	that's amazing	08:31
auenf	its a mobile broadband sim with voice calling enabled	08:31
auenf	and get a free voip DID with it	08:31
jaem	wow	08:31
auenf	http://www.exetel.com.au/residential-hspa-pricing.php	08:31
auenf	WM A or WM B	08:31
auenf	no MMS tho	08:32
mza	want my damn device.	08:32
johnx	that's not a bad deal really	08:32
auenf	(re-sold thru optus, and cause its a wireless broadband service, it doesnt have access to the special access point to connect to the MMS server, so if i get a MMS, i get this: http://sc.nitroware.net/i/brokenMMS.png )	08:32
jaem	http://imagebin.ca/img/64z9xm.png :)	08:33
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johnx	I think mine's $10/month, but if they figure out which phone I'm really using it with they might make me move to a higher plan	08:33
jaem	johnx, what if I work for your carrier? O_o	08:34
jaem	...I don't, for the record	08:34
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johnx	jaem, I'm not too worried	08:37
jaem	:P	08:37
johnx	i'm not violating tos I think	08:37
jaem	aww... Kopete's Pipes plugin doesn't work with CowSay :(	08:38
jaem	does anyone here use the most recent SDK VM?	08:38
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mza	wow, was that a split?	08:47
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half_of_jaem	yes	08:47
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RXrenesis8	holoy crap	08:48
jaem	sorry... probably shouldn't do that :S	08:48
mza	been so long	08:49
mza	i missed irc	08:49
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sgbirch	Just listening to devorak pointing out that Nokia should have gone with android.	09:20
johnx	heh. didn't he go away yet?	09:20
sgbirch	He was supportive of Nokia	09:21
sgbirch	But I have to agree maemo vs android is betamax ve vhs	09:22
jaem	?!	09:22
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jaem	give me a real Linux distro over some crazy Java stack any day	09:23
sgbirch	Why doesnt Nokia make n900 rum android apps?	09:23
jaem	besides, Google owns enough of my life as it is	09:23
jaem	sgbirch, it's not quite that simple	09:23
johnx	sgbirch, should be possible, but it wouldn't run them as well as a native android device	09:23
johnx	still might be doable if you needed that one killer app	09:23
jaem	sgbirch, Android has the Linux kernel, yes, but it's not "Linux" in the conventional (misused) sense	09:23
jaem	I'd much rather be able to hack on C++ in a terminal on my phone	09:24
jaem	:)	09:24
sgbirch	But since it is the linux kernel ...	09:24
johnx	sgbirch, this will give you some background on what's required: http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/	09:25
sgbirch	Seems like it wouldnt be too difficult	09:25
johnx	it's not exactly trivial, but it should be doable	09:25
ali1234	"It turns out that Android uses it own version of libc and all binaries get linked against that. This causes a problem when a libc already exists on your system."	09:27
ali1234	wat?	09:27
johnx	yeah	09:27
sgbirch	It would really help see the n900	09:27
sgbirch	Sell	09:27
ali1234	that is completely untrue	09:27
microlith	doesn't it use uClibc?	09:27
johnx	maybe, but what does android have in terms of apps that we don't?	09:27
ali1234	android uses uclibc and guess what - it can easily coexist with glibc	09:28
sgbirch	Market acceptance	09:28
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sgbirch	Especially in US where nokia isnt well known	09:28
jaem	sgbirch, maybe, but Android apps probably wouldn't integrate well	09:30
jaem	and intentions aside, it might end up looking (on the face of it) like Nokia is saying "we can't do this properly ourselves, so we're doing it improperly with someone else's stuff"	09:31
jaem	I'm not saying it's bad	09:31
johnx	sooo, you think it would be a good idea for them to spend lots of man-months on half-assed android-app coexistence?	09:31
sgbirch	N900 is powerful enough to run android in a chroot	09:31
jaem	but just that it would probably look bad on their part	09:31
jaem	and wouldn't be worth the effort, as johnx said	09:31
johnx	sgbirch, not as fast as the droid can run android apps, and it's (by various accounts) the first android phone to not be terribly sluggish	09:31
microlith	I could see there being a port of it at some point, but it won't be official	09:31
jaem	which ARM toolchain does the N900 use? -arm7?	09:31
sgbirch	I think it would be a good community initiative. Like wine	09:32
microlith	johnx: it's the first android phone to use better than an ARM11 CPU	09:32
jaem	sgbirch, granted, but it will probably stay like wine	09:32
johnx	sgbirch, yup, so you better get working on it :)	09:32
jaem	I don't hink Nokia cares/wants to do that	09:32
Pavlov	the droid is nice	09:32
ali1234	wine is pretty awful - nothing works well in it except popular games (ie source engine)	09:33
sgbirch	Johnx: i may do just that	09:33
ali1234	and they've been working on it for 15 years	09:33
sgbirch	You missed the point about wine, it was an example of a user iniative.	09:34
sgbirch	An android port would be much easier than wine	09:35
johnx	a community effort ... for nokia marketing reasons?	09:35
sulx	well wine isn't awful. its better than nothing	09:35
johnx	most of the android stuff is reimplentations of stuff available on other platforms except for a couple real gems	09:35
ali1234	but it's worse than running windows in virtualbox for almost everything	09:35
jaem	sgbirch, ali1234, what's even crazier (albeit cool) is the LUK project	09:35
sgbirch	No ... The itch we scratch is access to android appa	09:35
jaem	it's like Wine for the kernel	09:36
jaem	O_o	09:36
sgbirch	Apps	09:36
johnx	seems easier/more productive to just do native maemo "ports" ...	09:36
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ali1234	yeah. surely if you wanted to actually get access to a large number of apps, you should make a iphone compatibility layer?	09:37
johnx	though the reality is the best answer is usually in the grey area: just like a fair number of things are based on libwine	09:37
sgbirch	Iphone is closed source .. Much more difficult	09:38
johnx	there's an objective-c iphone-like layer for maemo already	09:39
sgbirch	Anyone know how to turn off the auto uppercase feature of the n810. Hate it	09:39
johnx	davlik without all the low-level kernel hacks might be a lot more reasonable	09:39
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johnx	ie, require some small source modification to the apps	09:40
jaem	sgbirch, same - it's in Settings	09:40
jaem	under Text Settings	09:40
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Xisdibik	is lcuk awake by any chance?	10:03
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:13
johnx	mornin' Jaffa	10:13
* Jaffa sees christaexport's reply to his Maemo Weekly News proposal and finds the irony hilarious		10:13
Jaffa	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385558 FWIW	10:14
johnx	yeah, that was pretty fantastic	10:14
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lbt	Jaffa: ROFL	10:34
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Xisdibik	Jaffa: isnt he a symbionite anyways?	10:36
Xisdibik	Jaffa: and morning ;)	10:36
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Jaffa	Xisdibik: Ah, no; now he's an expert on all things Maemo cough	10:48
Xisdibik	lol	10:49
qwerty12	Who gives a shit what he thinks? The sad thing is, you're not going to get any volunteers because - in true Talk style - this thread is now going to turn into a war and people will forget what post #1 said	10:50
johnx	qwerty12, s/talk/forum/ <- fixed it for ya	10:51
qwerty12	johnx: Sorry, but recently, Talk has become the worst of the worst	10:51
timeless_mbp	qwerty12: you're accusing forums of having redeeming value?	10:51
johnx	I think the trick might be small doses or something	10:52
timeless_mbp	of some drug?	10:53
johnx	I keep thinking about things like splitting the forum into hacker and new-user or something, but I don't see any way that wouldn't turn the non-hacker forum into a slum	10:53
johnx	timeless_mbp, of talk.m.o	10:53
timeless_mbp	yeah, but does it take a drug (like a muscle relaxant) to enable you to tolerate it?	10:53
johnx	nah, just a certain masochistic tendency	10:55
Xisdibik	id volunteer if i had any idea how to do it :D	10:59
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Xisdibik	id fall into that "new user" non hacker group tho	10:59
Xisdibik	the ones that are slummin ;)	11:00
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johnx	the problem is that there is a small number of vocal people who don't search and have a feeling of entitlement	11:02
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Termana	yello	11:03
johnx	allo	11:03
jaem	hi	11:04
mavhc	you're not allowed to post a second time if someone flags your post as something easily found in search, until you reply to your own post with the answer	11:04
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johnx	I have mixed feelings about trying to solve social problems with technical solutions	11:06
jaem	mavhc, I almost like it, but it would annoy the heck out of a lot of people	11:06
jaem	and then they'd just flame their own thread	11:06
jaem	johnx, I know... that's kind of the issue	11:06
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johnx	the real life analog is the cocktail party thought, right?	11:06
* Xisdibik has mixed feelings about feelings ;)		11:07
jaem	the imminent inrush of noobs on a forum is always scary, and most technological limits alienate people through unusability or anger	11:07
mavhc	you'd have to distinguish between those who can't search and those who won't search	11:07
johnx	at some point the signal/noise drops below a usable threshold and some smallish group of like-minded people go outside to discuss whatever they were talking about	11:07
jaem	johnx, yeah... and that's sad when it happens	11:07
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mavhc	what you need is a constant flow of ex newbs helping out the new newbs	11:07
timeless_mbp	jaem: i'm going to try to post an updated deb sometime today	11:08
timeless_mbp	got time to play w/ it?	11:08
johnx	mavhc, right, and that's my biggest reason for not really entertaining the thought of splitting	11:08
mavhc	you need the people who haven't answered the same question 100 times to answer that question	11:08
johnx	yup	11:09
jaem	timeless_mbp, possibly	11:09
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jaem	tomorrow's a bit tight, but I'll try to take a look	11:09
jaem	having a bit of a code sprint with a friend	11:09
johnx	mavhc, or you need to pay people to answer the same question a million times	11:09
jaem	timeless_mbp, we have two weeks or so to deliver this project	11:09
jaem	>_<	11:09
jaem	not enough time	11:09
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jaem	and everybody's miscommunicating	11:09
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jaem	I think we all are in agreement, but everyone misunderstands everyone else and thinks we're not	11:10
timeless_mbp	ooh, you could be in finland	11:10
jaem	timeless_mbp, oh?	11:10
jaem	that bad?	11:10
jaem	:P	11:10
timeless_mbp	standard operating procedure	11:10
jaem	rofl	11:10
mavhc	ask everyone to summerise the current state of play	11:10
timeless_mbp	s/summerise/summarize/	11:10
jaem	johnx, I wonder how well a hybrid chat/forum model would work	11:11
timeless_mbp	making things like summer is like handing out rose-colored glasses	11:11
jaem	something where you could have publicly viewable discussions, with comments, but the actual dicussion is limited to invited users	11:11
jaem	more like IM/blog/forum mashup	11:11
Jaffa	Xisdibik: If you read large swathes of tmo, and can distinguish something new & intefresting over something trollish/old; you're perfect	11:11
jaem	so if I think your comment is valuable, I invite you into the discussion	11:11
jaem	if not, then I can just ignore it	11:11
Jaffa	jaem. IBM had an old o,protoype thing like that	11:11
jaem	and the discussion itself stays clean	11:11
ali1234	yeah that sounds great, it really won't exclude people even more than the current system	11:12
johnx	jaem, that sounds a little too ... stilted? kind of awkward	11:12
Jaffa	jaem: and I suppose that'*s kinda what Google Wave is.	11:12
Jaffa	(bloody N900 kb)	11:12
Xisdibik	Jaffa: id probably hit that 50% of the time, but i could learn with practice, i dont swathe through large amounts of tmo. that might change once i have my n900 though :D	11:12
mavhc	well, it might be once they have better permissions	11:12
Jaffa	Xisdibik: Read most of IRC?	11:12
jaem	Jaffa, that's actually kind of what I was thinking of, only with public comments	11:13
Xisdibik	I have it open alot, im not actively reading each line, but if im using my laptop i try to catch most of what people say	11:13
jaem	the comments could be voted up or down, and optionally be hidden	11:13
jaem	but the difference is that everyone could view the discussion	11:13
jaem	and have their say	11:13
Jaffa	There're some old hands like qwerty12 who read a lot of tmo and IRC and would perfect contributors.	11:13
jaem	but they could only directly contribute if they had something valuable to say	11:14
jaem	e.g. allow the noise, but separate it from the signal	11:14
Jaffa	jaem: How would that be decided? Previous history? (if so, how did they get that history ;-))	11:14
johnx	that sounds like a recipe for favoritism...	11:14
jaem	invitation from someone in the discussion	11:14
jaem	johnx, it does	11:14
jaem	I was just throwing it out there	11:15
mavhc	vote up/down	11:15
jaem	it has all sorts of problems	11:15
jaem	mavhc, yes, with mods	11:15
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jaem	but it's an interesting idea	11:15
johnx	in terms of managing 500+ post discussions, slashdot is a good model	11:15
Xisdibik	then, i volunteer qwerty12 for the job ;)	11:15
mavhc	slashdot is ahead of the curve with moderation, because they've been at it longer	11:15
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Jaffa	jaem: interesting idea indeed	11:16
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jaem	Jaffa, once you had a history, maybe, but initially you'd be "promoted" from the comment thread by votes/mods/current members of the discussion	11:16
johnx	yup, they've been handling those 500+ post, various-intelligence level, no-two-people-who-know-each-other situations very well	11:16
mavhc	seems like every discussion system starts with "everyone can post", then "ops block users", then "vote up/down", then...	11:16
jaem	mavhc, yeah	11:16
jaem	and there is no perfect solution	11:16
jaem	has anyone seen an actual implementation of what I'm proposing?	11:16
Jaffa	It sounds, in practicality, a lot like Slashdot	11:17
timeless_mbp	yep	11:17
mavhc	but you're recognising the person, not the post	11:17
jaem	Jaffa, hmm... except that there's no main thread	11:17
timeless_mbp	everything in forums evolves to be like slashdot	11:17
mavhc	you want to +v people statically	11:17
Jaffa	Signal separated from noise by mods, getting consistenly promoted gets you karma which raises your default post level	11:17
jaem	I'm thinking of separating the signal from the noise, but allowing the noise - so that people can flame, but you don't have to see it	11:17
Jaffa	mavhc: /.'s karma does that	11:17
johnx	timeless_mbp, that's becuase slashdot is really a moderated mailing list with a web front-end	11:18
jaem	and the people who aren't flaming aren't going to invite flamers in to the conversation	11:18
mavhc	Jaffa: so it's a combination of both?	11:18
johnx	6 months ago I would have said we don't have the numbers to do /. style meta-moderation, but I'm beginning to change my mind :)	11:18
Jaffa	Of course, /. has a limited number of new threads each day.	11:18
johnx	Jaffa, they also have firehose now	11:19
Jaffa	johnx: we might not need M2 yet, but straight "crowd-sourced" moderation may be practicable	11:19
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Jaffa	johnx: true, I've looked at it once I think	11:19
mavhc	but in general it's more of a "interesting comments" system than a "support forum"	11:20
johnx	and for gods' sake: real threads	11:20
jaem	johnx, yeah	11:20
johnx	mavhc, but it handles the situation that eventually topics will diverge, and this isn't necessarily bad	11:20
* RST38h moos		11:20
jaem	comments vs threads is a distinction I'd like to make	11:20
johnx	but at the same time it's nice to be able to ignore the people who are talking about something different	11:20
RST38h	So, gentlemen, what is the topic of the day? =)	11:21
johnx	RST38h, comments	11:21
RST38h	tmo?	11:21
jaem	RST38h, and threads	11:21
jaem	yes	11:21
timeless_mbp	spam	11:21
jaem	and eggs	11:21
RST38h	You know what I want...	11:21
mavhc	without threads and the ability to ignore sub threads, and basically be usenet, you can't cope	11:21
RST38h	A generalized filter interface, with a bunch of obscure stuff	11:21
johnx	heh. this solves it: make the turing test a quiz on maemo :)	11:21
mavhc	usenet with karma	11:21
RST38h	But among this stuff, I owould like ot have "filter by user's account age" ;)))	11:21
ali1234	i'd like that too, but i'd probably use it the opposite way you do	11:22
RST38h	If you hide it among other filtering options, it is less likely to raise segregation alarms among some issues-waving people	11:22
mavhc	all forum software should be a web frontend to an nntp system	11:22
RST38h	ali1234: It is fine, as long as we are both satisfied :)	11:22
RST38h	mavhc: Why not move to google groups then?	11:23
RST38h	johnx: Somebody already proposed requiring a valid tablet MAC address for some forums =)	11:23
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qwerty12	RST38h: That's fucking brilliant, but make it an IMEI number, instead	11:24
timeless_mbp	heh	11:24
johnx	also: we shouldn't check for duplicated MACs. anyone who went to the trouble of tracking down an Nxx0 MAC address "passes the test"	11:25
mavhc	that'll work for about 10 mins	11:25
RST38h	qwerty: This will limit access to people with N900s. Don't wanna do that	11:27
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johnx	actually, I think we should take a page from google and their captcha system	11:27
ali1234	it's an interesting dilemma that you have	11:27
ali1234	when somebody asks for an advanced feature the response is "we can't do that, think of the USERS"	11:27
qwerty12	RST38h: Well, to the N900 fora then. That's where a lot of the idiots can be found	11:27
ali1234	but the users are the one set of people you're not actually interested in listening to	11:27
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RST38h	johnx: I have seen a math forum that required computing an integral to join	11:28
ali1234	and i quote "We don't want 95% of users to report bugs. Most of them are woefully under-qualified to do so"	11:28
RST38h	ali1234: you are missing the point	11:28
RST38h	ali1234: like, totally, man =)	11:28
timeless_mbp	ali1234: where's that from?	11:28
johnx	timeless_mbp, GeneralAntilles :)	11:28
ali1234	timeless_mbp: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=385818&postcount=43	11:29
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timeless_mbp	gan++	11:29
RST38h	First of all, someone without a tablet (n8x0, n900, etc) is NOT a tablet user.	11:29
RST38h	Secondly, someone who only writes to forums but never really reads them is of no interest to other forum members	11:30
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RST38h	moo wazd	11:31
ali1234	there are plenty of people with 4 digit post counts who don't seem to actually read what other people write	11:31
RST38h	Exactly	11:32
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ali1234	the problem is that a lot of them are supposed pillars of the community	11:33
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timeless_mbp	ali1234: do i know them?	11:33
RST38h	ali1234: can I have a list? =)	11:34
ali1234	i have to wonder, if the forums are so bad, why do you all spend so much time on them?	11:34
ali1234	maybe you should accept them for what they are, and move on	11:34
timeless_mbp	ali1234: i don't spend any time on them	11:34
timeless_mbp	i don't even know where they are :)	11:35
RST38h	actually, a lot of us do not	11:35
RST38h	Not any more, anyway	11:35
timeless_mbp	RST38h: some of us are slow learners	11:35
Jaffa	RST38h's point is valid. I skimmed /some/ threads yesterday for the first time in (literally) weeks.	11:37
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qwerty12	Xisdibik, Jaffa: Posted my propsal to join. Hopefully, others will follow suit and not engage in the silly (and pointless, as it is going to happen, anyway) discussion	11:38
Jaffa	BTW, anyone know which blog christaexport is involved in?	11:39
Jaffa	qwerty12: Ta muchly :)	11:39
qwerty12	Jaffa: maemo-freak, I believe	11:39
Xisdibik	yea think what thats right	11:39
Jaffa	URL?	11:39
Xisdibik	i remember him talking about symbian-freak and the maemo alternative coming out or that was out	11:39
Stskeeps	www.maemo-freak.com probably	11:39
Stskeeps	which looks a bit amateurish	11:40
Xisdibik	think that was stolen by another company	11:40
ali1234	it's linked on his sig	11:40
Xisdibik	they had to use another	11:40
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wazd	RST38h: heya	11:40
wazd	heya all	11:40
Xisdibik	guess not	11:40
Xisdibik	its in his link	11:40
Xisdibik	heya wazd	11:40
qwerty12	Hiya, wazd	11:40
qwerty12	Does Maemo-Freak.com even want to load for anyone?	11:41
qwerty12	Ah, there it is	11:41
Jaffa	Xisdibik: ta, when I'm at a computer I'll compare the brevity, frequent, breadth I'm proposing with the infrequent, in-depth, narrow articles most blogs write	11:42
* jaem is heading offline, and then to bed at some point		11:44
jaem	timeless_mbp, send me a PM when you post the package, pleas	11:44
Jaffa	jaem: g'night!	11:44
* timeless_mbp nods		11:44
jaem	I'll still be around, but if I leave #maemo open, I'll be up all night :P	11:44
jaem	cheers	11:44
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Xisdibik	Jaffa: :) oki dokey	11:45
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johnx	huh, I seem to have a weird tendency to "end" threads	13:16
johnx	or maybe I'm just replying to threads that have already run their course?	13:16
swc\|666	johnx, a thread killer are u?	13:16
qwerty12	johnx: It's just you :p	13:16
johnx	swc\|666, johnx, destroyer of threads. has a certain ring ...	13:17
swc\|666	johnx, no worries, i seem to have that effect on bottles of beer	13:17
johnx	qwerty12, well, just as long as it wasn't just me responding late	13:17
qwerty12	:)	13:18
Dantonic	hi guys	13:26
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johnx	allo Dantonic	13:26
Dantonic	hey johnx do you use vnc?	13:27
johnx	very occasionally	13:27
Dantonic	what OS do you run?	13:27
Dantonic	trying to figure out how to configure the server on my desktop... so I can view it on the NIT	13:27
Dantonic	on ubuntu 9.04	13:27
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johnx	x11vnc --shared --forever	13:28
johnx	don't remember if it's -- or just -	13:28
Dantonic	wait huh? what does that mean? --shared --forever	13:28
Dantonic	is that a command?	13:28
johnx	just run exactly what I typed	13:28
johnx	if you want to know more: man x11vnc	13:29
Dantonic	gotta install x11vnc first no?	13:29
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Dantonic	been trying to use "Vino"	13:29
Dantonic	the remote desktop that comes with ubuntu	13:29
Dantonic	what a headache... had it working locally but couldn't get it to work through the internet	13:30
Dantonic	now it just stopped working all together	13:30
Dantonic	I'll try x11vnc	13:30
Dantonic	ok so I started vnc like you said...	13:31
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Dantonic	without password johnx ?	13:31
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Dantonic	I guess I can set that	13:31
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johnx	set it if you want	13:31
johnx	I suggest not setting it for the test	13:31
Dantonic	so now in vnc viewer how do I access it?	13:32
Dantonic	just the local ip?	13:32
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Dantonic	I"d like to figure out how to access it locally and remotely	13:32
alterego	I'm going to aim at submitting a package as day into extras until I've finished doing all of mine.	13:32
alterego	Tough I'm pushing two into testing now.	13:34
alterego	~though	13:34
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Dantonic	johnx, sorry how do I access the remote desktop?	13:35
Dantonic	the ip is not working	13:35
johnx	what app are you using on your tablet?	13:36
alterego	multicast dns ftw :P	13:36
Dantonic	vnc viewer	13:36
johnx	do you need to specify the 'screen' number? might be 0	13:37
johnx	might need to put it after the ip address like 192.168.1.254:0	13:37
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Dantonic	could not connect...	13:38
Dantonic	I think I did somethign to the tablet earlier	13:38
Dantonic	maybe entered a command I shouldn't have	13:38
Dantonic	I entered a ssh -L 5900:user:5900 host@ip	13:39
Dantonic	not sure what that did	13:39
* SpeedEvil checks email for the first time today, and finds a shipping invoice! (For a $2000 plasma TV that I diddn't order, that is addressed to a fictitious individual.) Oh well.		13:39
Dantonic	ouch SpeedEvil	13:39
johnx	Dantonic, is that ssh still running?	13:40
Dantonic	ew idk I'm rebooting right now	13:40
Dantonic	I closed the terminal	13:40
Dantonic	question when I close the terminal for x11vnc it closes the server connection?	13:41
johnx	yes	13:41
Dantonic	ok	13:41
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* alterego hopes someone has packages screen up for maemo5		13:41
alterego	~packaged	13:41
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peter-k	hi	13:41
alterego	Yes, yes they have :) Nice	13:42
peter-k	so many people in this room	13:42
Stskeeps	yeah, big community :P	13:43
peter-k	nice to meet you alterego	13:43
alterego	So, screen + VPN on the tablet ..	13:43
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johnx	allo peter-k. what brings you here?	13:43
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Dantonic	bah nothing...	13:44
peter-k	what do you mean alterego?	13:44
peter-k	i have nothing to do now so i am here johnx	13:44
alterego	I'm just coming up with some ideas.	13:44
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alterego	Whilst packaging up some apps.	13:44
Dantonic	anyone run ubuntu?	13:45
Dantonic	running 9.10? how is it any problems?	13:45
alterego	I'm not having any problems with ubuntu 9.10 amd64	13:46
johnx	Dantonic, no problems here. have it on like 4 machines or so	13:46
Dantonic	cool I have 9.04 on an amd64... and its a shitfest	13:46
alterego	Yeah, I've got it on 4 hardware machines and in a few VM's. :P	13:46
RST38h	Get a real Intel ;)	13:46
Dantonic	I might just upgrade	13:47
alterego	Heh	13:47
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johnx	works here on my a64 3000+ but then again, 9.04 worked too	13:48
johnx	only problem I had was my craptastic pci wifi card	13:48
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RST38h	People reported some weird problems with AMDs over the last year	13:48
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RST38h	What exactly is the problem with SDK not running on AMDs?	13:49
RST38h	Bad QEmu?	13:49
alterego	Well,I'm not running it on an AMD.	13:49
alterego	Core2Duo here.	13:49
Dantonic	let me do a quick backup	13:49
johnx	I wish maemo sb would use a newer qemu....like one that worked	13:51
RST38h	Enabling no-execute feature should probably break QEmu...	13:51
RST38h	johnx: there is a working quemu? :)	13:51
johnx	RST38h, I'm chrooted into an arm ubuntu install doing mer work	13:52
RST38h	On a real ARM? =)	13:52
johnx	heh	13:52
RST38h	Or transparent QEmu ARM?	13:52
johnx	transparent. the files in the chroot are armel ELFs. the host machine is my athlon 64	13:53
RST38h	Aha, so it works after all	13:53
johnx	yeah, works just fine	13:53
RST38h	Well, NX stuff is optional anyway, so either it is turned off or QEmu somehow routes around it	13:53
johnx	it acts as an interpreter, same way python or sh would	13:54
alterego	Tthe "products" sesction in a users' karma oesn't take into account extras?	13:55
RST38h	johnx: QEmu is supposed to be a binary translator	13:56
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Dantonic	hmm I read there's a possible bug with the upgrade	13:56
RST38h	alterego: Only takes into account proper Extras, no -Testing	13:56
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Dantonic	upgrade brakes graphic drivers and x, preventing login or startx	13:56
RST38h	johnx: I.e. it generates x86 code and then jumps to it, something NX explicitely prevents	13:56
alterego	RST38h: Ah, good, cheers :)	13:56
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Dantonic	I'm gonna burn it to disk just in case	13:56
Dantonic	so i can re-install if I have to	13:57
johnx	Dantonic, which graphics card do you have?	13:57
Dantonic	Nvidia 7600GT	13:57
johnx	didn't break my 6600	13:58
johnx	or rather my install	13:58
RST38h	Nvidia...mhm.	13:58
Dantonic	well I'll burn it to disk just in case	13:58
Dantonic	dling the image	13:58
johnx	RST38h, the only sane choice for video on linux :)	13:58
RST38h	Go try IGD...	13:58
* RST38h never had a decent video card in his computers		13:58
alterego	Didn't break my 7600GT :)	13:58
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johnx	RST38h, igd?	13:59
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Dantonic	man...	13:59
RST38h	Intel Graphics Device	13:59
alterego	Well, if you want performance graphics, the intel cheapo chipsets aren't too bad, I've got a desktop workstation that has an integrated intel and works great for that machine.	13:59
RST38h	A summary name for all those display adapters Intel ships for tiny laptops	14:00
alterego	I much prefer nVideia, though, for performance :)	14:00
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Dantonic	so does an upgrade change everything... does it replace all configuration files? or it leaves old settings behind?	14:00
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johnx	Dantonic, everything stays the same. if you changed some file in /etc and it wants to replace it, it will ask you first	14:01
Dantonic	ah ok	14:01
RST38h	johnx: And before that, I had something produced by the resurrected Trident, right before it went under again	14:01
Dantonic	I want it to change everything fresh... cause I think I messed with the system too much	14:01
RST38h	And before, there was the NeoMedia (?) crap	14:01
Dantonic	might have messed something up not knowing what I'm doing	14:01
Dantonic	so noob	14:01
Dantonic	305MB of 699MB	14:02
johnx	hmm, s3 virge -> nvidia 128 (added a voodoo 2) -> matrox g400 -> radeon 7000 -> nv ti4200 -> nv 6600	14:02
Dantonic	gonna go brush my teeth	14:02
alterego	How do you promote to testing?	14:03
johnx	I learned my lesson on pie in the sky, open source video driver efforts where everything will work real soon now	14:03
alterego	My packages seemed to have gone straight from devel to extras	14:03
SpeedEvil	johnx: yeah - even open-source, open docs doesn't mean there will be enough interested coders.	14:04
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johnx	exactly. I decided I'd rather have a working desktop and play with embedded stuff	14:05
RST38h	alterego: maemo.org/packages	14:05
RST38h	In Fremantle, they could not go from -devel to extras	14:06
alterego	YEah, that was chinook and diablo	14:06
alterego	I'm looking at the fremantle one now.	14:06
alterego	Erm,	14:07
alterego	How do I promote it to testing for fremantle then?	14:07
RST38h	maemo.org/packages	14:07
alterego	Yeah, I'm looking at that right now.	14:08
Dantonic	I just wish on one of my linux installations everything would just work for once...	14:08
RST38h	You will need to install Windows for that...	14:08
johnx	RST38h, you misspelled "just buy a mac and do whatever steve jobs tells you to"	14:09
lbt	Dantonic: with ya....	14:09
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alterego	I can't see a clear way to promote these packages :(	14:10
Dantonic	lol well I don't know if I'll go that far	14:10
Dantonic	going back to windows	14:11
Dantonic	:P I just have to learn more linux	14:11
RST38h	johnx: I am not THAT sadistic	14:11
RST38h	johnx: Besides, given its use scenarios, is Mac really a computer or a consumer device for media consumption?	14:12
* lbt is mildly amused at the apple/smokers/warranty thing atm		14:12
RST38h	yea it is cute	14:12
johnx	RST38h, eh. they nerfed the iphonepod for sure, but macs are still damn nice machines for 80% of users	14:12
alterego	Well, I smoke, but I'd never smoke around my laptop or desktop.	14:12
alterego	I've seen the damage it can do, computers are delicate complex devices that should be in nice clean environments :)	14:13
alterego	Hell, I even have air filters on all my workstations just to stop them getting dusty inside.	14:13
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johnx	heh. my desktop's CPU heatsink had recently swallowed enough dust to make it totally ineffective	14:14
Dantonic	rofl alterego you should be as careful with your lungs!	14:14
RST38h	yea	14:14
alterego	Yeah :/	14:14
RST38h	they cannot be replaced too	14:14
RST38h	once the warranty expires on these...	14:15
Dantonic	"... delicate complex devices that should be in nice clean environments..."	14:15
Dantonic	:)	14:15
alterego	Presumably I have to be the registered package maintainer to promote the package to testing?	14:15
RST38h	yea	14:15
alterego	Shit, I think qwerty still has those rights :/	14:15
RST38h	what package?	14:16
alterego	ruby1.8	14:16
RST38h	ah	14:16
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timeless_mbp	um	14:19
timeless_mbp	my n900 has decided it doesn't want to charge anymore	14:20
timeless_mbp	anyone have this experience?	14:20
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RST38h	If it is connected to a computer, then that is a known bug	14:21
alterego	timeless_mbp: my N900 hasn't turned up yet :(	14:21
timeless_mbp	it's connected to either of 2 official nokia usb chargers	14:21
SpeedEvil	Have you tried turning it off and on again?	14:22
RST38h	then it is doa i guess	14:22
alterego	Hahah	14:22
alterego	He's scared to turn it off ;)	14:22
kurtan	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpmLrz_lSuE	14:22
kurtan	^^	14:22
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: pull battery and try again?	14:22
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RST38h	removing battery is recommended though	14:23
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: or that might kill it permanently!	14:23
SpeedEvil	pull battery, leave 5 mins, unplugged, reinsert battery, plug in usb	14:23
johnx	kurtan, that's pretty awesome	14:23
RST38h	in a fridge!	14:23
Stskeeps	johnx: IT crowd :P	14:24
johnx	I guess I should start watching it	14:24
kurtan	yes you should	14:24
kurtan	atleast the first two seasons :p	14:24
johnx	I just always felt like I got enough IT and Office at work to bother watching the shows	14:24
kurtan	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9j80Jkc_A	14:24
kurtan	there's one more	14:25
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timeless_mbp	powering it down + pulling battery worked	14:25
kurtan	hehe :)	14:26
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* RST38h looks at mininova.org idly, wondering what movie he should download		14:28
alterego	A legal one I hope :P	14:31
RST38h	Continue hoping, I guess...	14:31
SpeedEvil	Legally blonde?	14:31
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RST38h	alterego: not a big fan of court dramas, too	14:31
timeless_mbp	hey	14:31
timeless_mbp	quick poll	14:32
timeless_mbp	'Bookmarks' or 'Browser Bookmarks'?	14:32
SpeedEvil	I'd wonder about web bookmarks.	14:32
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RST38h	Stickies.	14:32
alterego	Bookmarks	14:33
alterego	Who calls a user agent a "browser" any more.	14:33
johnx	RST38h, zombieland	14:33
SpeedEvil	In a genereal context, bookmarks might be placemarks in a book, or file you're reading, or any other navigation checkpoint.	14:33
RST38h	johnx: I have got enough of those IRL	14:34
SpeedEvil	I might want to set a bookmark for January 24th 2010	14:34
qwerty12_N900	alterego: Ouch. Am I still the maintainer? If so, change it.	14:34
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alterego	qwerty12_N900: trying :)	14:34
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qwerty12_N900	:)	14:34
alterego	It's not clear on the protocol of how to do things in this situation, I put in a request, I don't know whether that requires your authorization or someone elses.	14:35
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johnx	'night all	14:36
RST38h	g'night	14:37
RST38h	"...surpassing the Dawn of the Dead remake to become the top-grossing zombie film in history."	14:39
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RST38h	"top-grossing" sounds vague in this context	14:39
RST38h	heya javis, lcuk	14:39
javispedro	morn	14:40
lcuk	hey RST38h and javis lol	14:40
alterego	Heh	14:40
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lcuk	has anyone seriously looked at boot from mmc on n900 yet	14:42
javispedro	stskeeps did some bootmenu stuff	14:42
lcuk	yeah that will be for mer tho i assume, im wondering what hoops would have to be crossed for a maemo clone to sd	14:42
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lcuk	especially with /opt being offsite so to speak	14:43
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yigal	so should I preorder an n900 like everyone else?	14:43
RST38h	who knows?	14:43
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javispedro	what kind of question is that	14:43
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lcuk	yigal, if you were dedicated you wouldv preordered someime in 1987	14:43
alterego	Hahah	14:43
yigal	lcuk: you're right I must show my devotion	14:44
javispedro	lcuk, i dont think /opt will be a problem	14:44
lcuk	javispedro, it will if the partition is reused	14:44
yigal	I just purchased a eee t91mt, yay	14:44
lcuk	and both original and clone use the same space	14:44
lcuk	so the startup of the clone must be altered	14:44
lcuk	to mount a different path	14:45
javispedro	yeah, but just edit the partition mounting script ;)	14:45
javispedro	er.. that.	14:45
* lcuk nods		14:45
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lcuk	in the original n8x0 cloning i dont think you needed to do that, you could just reclone and reclone as many times as you needed	14:46
javispedro	oh	14:46
javispedro	touché.	14:46
yigal	on the n900 can a chroot be installed and made to work as nicely as it is on the n8x0?	14:46
RST38h	yuigal: Devoton can only be shown through a sacrifice	14:46
RST38h	yigal: Preferably human, but a small rodent or two will do too	14:47
yigal	RST38h: should I burn my G1	14:47
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RST38h	yigal: Goood idea	14:47
lcuk	hang on	14:47
javispedro	java!	14:47
RST38h	On a sacrificial fire!	14:47
lcuk	yigal, no, your g1 is not a sufficient sacrifice	14:47
RST38h	javis: not again =)	14:47
lcuk	we need something with value	14:47
javispedro	to the tentacled one!	14:47
yigal	my n800 :(	14:47
lcuk	:O how dare you	14:47
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RST38h	Sacrificing n800 may be considered blasphemy	14:48
lcuk	thats like sacrificing your firstborn	14:48
lcuk	ahhh wlel	14:48
lcuk	needs must	14:48
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: What's wrong with that, may I ask?	14:48
lcuk	in what way	14:48
yigal	it's by its nature a horrible sacrifice	14:48
lcuk	like talking technical and stuff	14:48
lcuk	qwerty im just having a rest from some things ive been looking at	14:49
javispedro	well burning n800 kills the kittens hidden between that power maemo's cuteness	14:49
lcuk	and part of looking at them made me think about cloning	14:49
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javispedro	s/between/inside heh	14:49
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lcuk	the n800 wasnt perfect until nokia added a bacon grill tray (hidden as a keyboard)	14:50
yigal	I will burn the my desires and purify my body so that when I'm truly ready I will finally be given the n900	14:50
L0cutus	re	14:50
RST38h	...and find out it is a phone.	14:50
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alterego	I think replacing my gnome-terminal launcher icon with a gnome-terminal+screen launcher icon was probably the coolest idea I've had over the past few weeks.	14:51
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: bored?	14:52
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yigal	get yakuake on maemo	14:52
yigal	drop down term, ooh	14:52
Stskeeps	oh, wait, i can do that on my ow	14:52
Stskeeps	n	14:52
qwerty12_N900	yigal: ...until you find out Matchbox sucks... =)	14:53
yigal	ya, matchbox isn't that great	14:53
yigal	it works though	14:53
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yigal	(it) sucksless mentality goes a long way	14:54
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qwerty12_N900	On the N800, telling it to ignore requests to make a dialog modal was awesome, as I could actually still use the tablet while sending/recieving something	14:55
qwerty12_N900	over Bluetooth	14:55
alterego	I'm thinking of turning the N810 into a home automation server, using the RS232 port talking to a MOXA box	14:56
alterego	I mean the UART talking via RS232 to a MOXA	14:56
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yigal	alterego: sounds pretty sweet, would you make a gui for coffee making, blind raising etc.?	14:58
alterego	Yeah, it'd be a web application though	14:58
yigal	alterego: sweet, so different devices could in theory control the house	14:58
alterego	Using my semantic services architecture with a RESTful interface on top of ti, then I could write a UI client too ^.^	14:58
alterego	Anything with a web browser and wifi access in my house yeah.	14:59
alterego	I think I'll start with getting it to turn off/on my workstation, TV/monitor, and my XBox 360	15:00
RST38h	Megalomania (n.) -- ...	15:01
yigal	the n900 is the first tablet which make it very simple to connect an external monitor so awesome, but when will I be with you sweet	15:01
RST38h	you can connect external monitor to 5800 for now	15:01
alterego	Then I'll get a beagle board to use as a media PC ^.^	15:02
yigal	ya, symbian boo	15:03
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crashanddie_	connecting to the external monitor is only useful for movies/clips though	15:04
crashanddie_	I can't see the resolution being nearly good enough for presentations or text editing	15:04
* RST38h looks for 4 more N900 users		15:04
lcuk	its perfect for presentations	15:04
lcuk	you mustv seen many	15:05
lcuk	text editing at 800*480 is more than people had for years	15:05
lcuk	you act like people had 1600*1200 always	15:05
RST38h	To finally push at least Speccy into Extras	15:05
crashanddie_	lcuk, I tried connecting it to my TV	15:05
Shapeshifter	Is there a way to install Qt in the sdk?	15:05
* RST38h edited a lot of text at 512x212 =)		15:05
crashanddie_	lcuk, went to TMO on it	15:05
crashanddie_	lcuk, my eyes were bleeding after 20 minutes or so	15:06
yigal	1280x800 is really nice on my 10" screen	15:06
lcuk	RST38h, spec was even lower wasnt it	15:06
lcuk	crashanddie_, thats as maybe	15:06
RST38h	lcuk: V9938 could do 512x212 text	15:07
RST38h	lcuk: TMS9918/9928 could only do 256x192	15:07
* lcuk nods		15:07
lcuk	i was amazed when the amiga had low and high res	15:07
RST38h	Oh, Atari had VARIABLE res for ages	15:07
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lcuk	and even tho it flickered like a bitch and made my eyes bleed more than anything nowadays	15:08
lcuk	i was happy	15:08
RST38h	In 2600, you had to update the screen with CPU :)	15:08
lcuk	yeah sounds like xv ;)	15:08
RST38h	Ok, what would be the best tmo forum to post a request to test n900 apps?	15:08
Shapeshifter	mhhh. apt-cache search qt shows some stuff, but I don't see just "qt" and no "pyqt" either.	15:09
yigal	how do you like that 1280x800, http://yigalweinstein.info/screen-shot.png , just beautiful	15:09
lcuk	yigal, on what device	15:10
lcuk	and you lost the left hand edge	15:10
yigal	it's an eee not n900, n900 a bit overkill you're right	15:10
qwerty12_N900	yigal: Now I hate you; best I ever see all day is 1024x768 :'(	15:10
lcuk	dunno RST38h	15:10
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* lbt looks at his 3200x1280 desktop (with GL) and keeps schtum		15:11
RST38h	lcuk: Posting to Applications	15:12
RST38h	Would post to Games, but I am afraid to attract any attention from Oct2009ers	15:12
lcuk	lbt, sore neck?	15:14
lcuk	or all on one 4" screen	15:14
alterego	Wow, got the SDK working really well for once ^.^	15:14
lbt	I have to get up and walk to see the other edge of the screen :)	15:14
lcuk	haha	15:14
lcuk	in a different timezone	15:14
qwerty12_N900	:O	15:14
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* SpeedEvil vaguely remembers one micro with a wierd 3 field interlace		15:15
lbt	nb Bounce on a 10' projector makes you queasy...	15:15
SpeedEvil	that 'worked' on most monitors	15:15
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crashanddie_	lcuk, things are OK when the monitor is made for what you try to do	15:16
crashanddie_	lcuk, I wouldn't mind working on a 640x480 monitor, provided that it doesn't have pixels the shape of a clusterfuck	15:17
* SpeedEvil 's other device has a 480*640 3.5" screen.		15:17
lcuk	can you draw a clusterfuck and send a pic	15:17
alterego	Heh	15:17
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yigal	is the video card on the n900 restricted to a max of 480x640 or can it use a higher setting on an external monitor?	15:18
alterego	1920x1200 on my lap[top, perfect for development :P	15:18
ShadowJK	lol	15:18
yigal	alterego: lol	15:18
Stskeepz	vcgomes: 800x480	15:18
Stskeepz	err, yigal	15:18
lcuk	yigal, 800*480	15:18
lcuk	or occasionally 480*800	15:18
lcuk	with aspect locking	15:19
yigal	not bad	15:19
lcuk	and i was so surprised when i found out you can drive the n900 video out with different data to the internal lcd	15:19
lcuk	so i had liqbase on one and gtk on the other	15:19
* SpeedEvil stabs the 100dpi mafia.		15:19
SpeedEvil	100dpi is a stupid resolution for screens unless you are at least 1m from them.	15:20
ShadowJK	dpi becomes a stupid measure too	15:20
ShadowJK	dpi and pixels, I mean	15:20
SpeedEvil	To an extent, yes.	15:21
yigal	dell is selling the n900 again, but for $600 now	15:21
* lcuk would love a floating point vector display		15:21
ShadowJK	something like angle of user's view taken up by a pixel	15:21
ShadowJK	it'd vary with viewing distance	15:21
yigal	sounds useful	15:22
yigal	or really confusing	15:22
lcuk	holographic display	15:22
SpeedEvil	The 'right' dpi - IMO - is one where you can display a grid antialiased at any resolution without it being detectable by the eye if the screen has double the resolution	15:22
RST38h	is there any way to create itemized lists in bbcode?	15:22
ShadowJK	if it could be measured in realtime, the size of text on the display would become smaller as you brought the device closer, and bigger as you moved it further away	15:22
alterego	Heh	15:23
lcuk	ShadowJK, no that would be seriously annoying	15:23
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: You missed the http://talk.maemo.org/maemo/images/editor/insertorderedlist.gif and http://talk.maemo.org/maemo/images/editor/insertunorderedlist.gif buttons in the bar at the top, while posting? :)	15:24
lcuk	i would write in 80pt font "you won 1million dollars" then in 6pt font "to claim enter 383487234273"	15:24
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ShadowJK	I'm saying pt is a silly measure now :)	15:25
lcuk	you need to have relative measures within your code	15:26
ShadowJK	you'd have to normalize pt to something like "6pt when viewed at 30cm" or whatever	15:26
lcuk	and pt is understood	15:26
lcuk	but a pt is already something like that	15:26
ShadowJK	no	15:26
blawl	hi, does anyone know if lastest maemo support tun/tap device?	15:26
blawl	i cannot find anything with google	15:26
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RST38h	qwerty: really?	15:27
RST38h	hmm	15:27
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ShadowJK	the pt -> pixels transform depends on dpi, so it's basically a funny unit for what mm or inches expresses	15:28
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BabelO	hi, any one here can tell me why this give me compile error ? device = g_object_new(LOCATION_TYPE_GPS_DEVICE, NULL);	15:30
BabelO	i followed the wiki on maemo	15:30
BabelO	invalid conversion from 'void' to 'LocationGPSDevice'	15:31
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lbt	so RST38h	15:32
lbt	I dl'ed Master Gear	15:32
lbt	and put Sega_Tween_Game_Gear.zip in ~/MyDocs	15:32
lbt	I click on it and get a black screen	15:32
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timeless	has anyone complained to the ukeyboard guys that they broke their package by using find -exec?	15:36
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* timeless is kinda surprised the builder doesn't try to install the package		15:38
qwerty12_N900	timeless: He doesn't have an N900, and the SDK features the full find	15:39
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fragment	hmm, how can I reset the backlight time-out on the N900?	15:40
timeless	surely we could augmment the builder w/ a busybox root	15:40
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Stskeepz	jeremiah: proposal for test of packages for maemian.. does the package -actually- insert into a n900 chroot	15:41
Stskeepz	should be fairly easy with qemu arm user emulation :P	15:42
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lbt	Stskeepz: do you mean an install test?	15:43
Stskeepz	yeah	15:43
RST38h	qwerty: checked, my editor shows none of these	15:44
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* javispedro worries, worries, and worries.		15:45
jeremiah	Stskeepz: Sounds good, I'll write that down	15:45
Stskeepz	javispedro: about?	15:45
jeremiah	But I don't think it will be as easy as you think :P	15:45
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: When pressing "New Reply", in the text area, you should get a row of buttons above it. If not, go to http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editoptions and make sure Standard Editor is selected from "Message Editor Interface"	15:46
RST38h	qwerty: that should be it then...hm	15:47
lbt	Stskeepz: security issues in allowing a chroot with nw connections (builder is, afaik, nw-less chroot)	15:47
lbt	and you may need that to install deps?	15:47
RST38h	I had Simple Text Box there	15:48
Stskeepz	lbt: mm	15:48
lbt	just a thought...	15:48
lbt	food - back l8r	15:48
alterego	Anyone else have issues with the application manageron the SD?	15:48
javispedro	Stskeepz: work and stuff I want to do when I get the n900.	15:48
RST38h	javis: I am sure you have seen this, but just in case: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE5AJ1EU20091120	15:48
alterego	~SDK, it doesn't seem to want to install some packages ...	15:48
jeremiah	Why wouldn't you have network?	15:48
jeremiah	I mean, how would you install depedencies?	15:49
javispedro	did anyone make ogles1.1 work in device? I kinda remember my last "remote" test failed.	15:49
lcuk	hehe @ freezing autobuilder during the install test if an app waits for input ;)	15:49
SpeedEvil	yow. ' "We are selling 400 times more games on iPhone than on Android,"' rst38	15:49
jeremiah	alterego: What packages is it choking?	15:49
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javispedro	RST38h: not seen it, but totally expected.	15:49
alterego	Anything in 'ruby-defaults' try installing 'irb' from extras-devel	15:50
zap	does Nokia already sell N900? Can't find any place to buy	15:50
RST38h	javis: Seen it a few days ago, also did not see it a s a surprise =(	15:50
alterego	zap: nokia.com	15:50
jeremiah	I know this is a stupid question, but is ruby already on teh device you are trying to install on?	15:50
RST38h	zap: Apparently the closest spot is NYC :)	15:51
zap	alterego: found only tge "preorder now" page	15:51
alterego	Nope	15:51
RST38h	zap: Have you signed up for the Nov 24 event btw?	15:51
zap	no	15:51
jeremiah	irb is a repl and won't work without ruby	15:51
alterego	jeremiah: looking at the application manager logs it fails to find repository.maemo.org .. :/	15:51
zap	I don't like tusovkas :)	15:51
jeremiah	alterego: Ah, that sucks.	15:51
jeremiah	what does your sources.list look like?	15:51
alterego	But it's only that package ..	15:52
jeremiah	odd	15:52
RST38h	zap: Well, neither I nor wazd intead to stay for the party, I guess, but the presentation may be worth taking a look at	15:52
RST38h	s/intead/intend	15:52
alterego	http://pastie.org/709888	15:52
zap	RST38h: I will watch it on youtube sitting in my chair :)	15:53
jeremiah	alterego: Looks like that should work without a problem.	15:53
jeremiah	alterego: Not sure what is wrong there. :-/	15:53
jeremiah	RST38h: Are you guys in Barc?	15:54
jeremiah	And by Brac I mean Barcelona	15:54
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RST38h	zap: sounds like a plan I can use too =)	15:54
zap	no we're in BRIC :)	15:54
RST38h	jeremiah: Not me, out of vacation days, low on money	15:54
alterego	Anyone got a device they can try it on? :)	15:54
javispedro	natives abbreviate the city name as "BCN"	15:54
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javispedro	;)	15:54
qwerty12_N900	Foreigners call it "that Spanish city" ;P	15:55
javispedro	qwerty12_N900: didn't you read the tmo topic about the flag? ;)	15:55
RST38h	javis: or "Gaudi playground" =)	15:56
qwerty12_N900	javispedro: Nope, but do you happen to read BBC News? =)	15:56
javispedro	not read, but I sometimes listen to them. Blame Nokia's selection of Internet radio stations for the n810.	15:57
qwerty12_N900	javispedro: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8371305.stm	15:57
javispedro	ah, messy stuff.	15:57
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timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N900: that's awesome	15:58
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ShadowJK	that selection of radio stations is also available on S60 ;)	15:58
alterego	Does a package have to be inextras-devel for a period of time before it can be promoted to extras-testing?	15:59
RST38h	BBC isn't the worst choice though	15:59
javispedro	alterego: no,	15:59
alterego	Because I can't see anyway to promote this package :/	15:59
javispedro	but the autobuilder may take a while to upload pkgs to the repo	15:59
RST38h	alterego: ok, follow my directions	16:00
alterego	m'ksay	16:00
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RST38h	alterego: go to http://www.maemo.org/packages	16:01
RST38h	alterego: click on "All packages in Fremantle Extras-devel."	16:01
alterego	m'hmm	16:02
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alterego	Ah, there's a premote package link now :P	16:05
alterego	Thanks RST38h	16:05
RST38h	alterego: cooool =)	16:07
alterego	It was that first step that I was missing I think ;)	16:07
alterego	That linked it with the devel repository.	16:08
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alterego	Oh, I can't promote the whole "package" I have to do each individual component.	16:10
alterego	(source package that is)	16:10
javispedro	what's this stuff about the "portrait mode bug"?	16:11
javispedro	~seen yerga	16:11
infobot	yerga is currently on #maemo (2d 18h 59m 8s). Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 1d 19h 2m 56s, last said: 'ali1234, it worked fine here with 42-11'.	16:11
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timeless_mbp	darn, SWep4 is showing	16:12
qwerty12_N900	javispedro: bug 6203, maybe	16:12
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6203 Rotation in 42-11 is not as smooth as in 41-10 for some third party apps	16:12
javispedro	no, this http://share.ovi.com/album/yerga.Maemo5portraitb	16:12
qwerty12_N900	Ah	16:13
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qwerty12_N900	Maybe's he's referring to his N900 being stuck in portrait mode?	16:13
timeless_mbp	javispedro: whose calendar app is that?	16:13
timeless_mbp	the calendar app title is unfortunate	16:13
javispedro	that's what I want to know.	16:14
timeless_mbp	my guess is that it's ours	16:14
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javispedro	well there are not that many calendar apps in fremantle ;)	16:15
alterego	Oh, balls	16:15
lcuk	course there are	16:16
alterego	ruby installs to /usr/ but we should be doing everything under /opt now right?	16:16
lcuk	calendar apps are the new media players	16:16
qwerty12_N900	Apart from metalayer-crawler, I quite liked Diablo's default	16:17
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range	lcuk: What? The fremantle calendar doesn't play .ogg alarms?	16:18
javispedro	"It went in right before the release,	16:18
javispedro	we were not told about it, and we had no chance to test it or point out the obvious problem with it."	16:18
* javispedro sighs		16:18
lcuk	range, mmm?	16:19
lcuk	i dunno	16:19
Stskeepz	javispedro: hmm?	16:19
javispedro	ohmd	16:19
Stskeepz	ah	16:19
Stskeepz	ohmd was there from the start though? :P	16:19
range	lcuk: Well, if they are the new media players :)	16:20
javispedro	ah, I guess he meant while rotating only then	16:20
lcukn900	lol i meant as in a hello world app	16:20
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alterego	Can you rotate the emulator? :)	16:21
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javispedro	"the emulator"..	16:22
alterego	Well, the SDK	16:22
javispedro	but yes, you can use xrandr to rotate Xephyr in the SDK	16:22
javispedro	or so said the wiki..	16:22
* lcuk vanishes		16:22
RST38h	Are they already filing bugs against "the emulator" on bugzilla?	16:22
alterego	Heh	16:23
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JosefAssad	quick question: the stuff listed on http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/, is that a subset of what is in extras or where does that come from?	16:24
javispedro	user/* subset of extras.	16:24
JosefAssad	ah, ok	16:24
alterego	Neat	16:24
crashanddie_	time for lunch	16:25
crashanddie_	llunch I guess, for "late lunch"	16:25
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ali1234	qemu isn't an emulator now?	16:26
crashanddie_	The hint is in the name	16:26
ali1234	yes, that's kind of what i thought too	16:26
javispedro	but the SDK isn't.	16:26
ali1234	but the thing that lets you run armel binaries on a PC is	16:27
crashanddie_	ali1234, technically speaking, qemu is a "CPU Emulator"	16:27
javispedro	ali1234: but that's what most people talk about when they refer to the "emulator".	16:27
ali1234	javispedro: the SDK includes an emulator	16:27
crashanddie_	so, being pedantic, to answer alterego's question, "no, you can't rotate the CPU emulator"	16:27
javispedro	since, oh! the armel target doesn't even boot h-d.	16:27
javispedro	ali1234: and it includes a calendar application now, but that doesn't mean people should call it "the calendar".	16:28
crashanddie_	but yeah, people are right in using the term "emulator" for the SDK and stuff	16:28
javispedro	crashanddie_: no, because it tricks them into thinking the GUI they're seeing is being emulated. it isn't. it's running diferent binaries.	16:29
crashanddie_	who gives a?	16:29
* alterego doesn't.		16:29
crashanddie_	it emulates how your application will behave	16:29
alterego	If javispedro wants to correct everyone then so be it, I'm not going to lose sleep.	16:29
javispedro	crashanddie_: me. and the poor person who files a bug about my apps without trying on device, since I'll kill him.	16:29
alterego	Meaning is more important to me than syntax :P	16:29
alterego	Except when programming.	16:30
javispedro	or gives thumbs up/down in -testing without device.	16:30
crashanddie_	javispedro, whatev	16:30
lbt	RST38h: did you see my query re MasterGear?	16:30
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javispedro	crashanddie_: it's already happening.	16:30
crashanddie_	javispedro, again, who gives a?	16:30
javispedro	ah well, ok.	16:30
crashanddie_	Just ask that people who provide bug reports also provide a valid mac address	16:30
crashanddie_	done	16:30
alterego	Hahah,	16:31
crashanddie_	if people are too stupid to understand that things don't work the same on-device and in the emulator, they're idiots	16:31
crashanddie_	you have the same limitation on every platform	16:31
javispedro	specially when on this platform the SDK is _not_ an emulator.	16:31
crashanddie_	javispedro, fuck off	16:31
ali1234	where i come from, an SDK is a compiler and some includes and libraries	16:32
ali1234	maybe not even the compiler	16:32
* javispedro feels a dejà vú now.		16:32
ali1234	calling the emulator "the SDK" is just wrong	16:32
ali1234	it's even more misleading than calling it "an emulator"	16:32
javispedro	it's not an emulator!	16:33
crashanddie_	javispedro, the correct spelling is: Déjà vu	16:33
ali1234	nor is it an SDK!	16:33
crashanddie_	(minus capital)	16:33
alterego	ali1234: he was right in what I Was talking about, I wasn't using the arm target, so the actual emulator (qemu) was not being used.	16:33
javispedro	while I don't agree either with calling it "SDK", at least that's what Nokia calls it.	16:33
ali1234	what you are calling the SDK is infact an entire distribution of maemo, for x86	16:33
javispedro	ok.	16:33
alterego	How about SDE then :P	16:33
crashanddie_	javispedro, iPhone emulator runs different binaries, blackberry emulator runs different binaries, android emulator runs different binaries	16:34
ali1234	hell, it would probably cause a lot less confusion if those virtual images... instead of having all the scratchbox cruft inside an ubuntu image or whatever... if they were just maemo x86 running native	16:34
qwerty12_N900	wannabe emulator	16:34
javispedro	crashanddie_: android emulator doesn't.	16:34
Stskeepz	ali1234: well, no, not really :P	16:34
crashanddie_	yes it does	16:34
ali1234	but i suppose that would be too logical	16:34
javispedro	no it doesn't	16:34
crashanddie_	javispedro, try to run a GPS app	16:34
javispedro	i just give it yesterday the snesoid apk	16:34
Stskeepz	ali1234: i welcome you to test out sdk on a x86 machine raw :P	16:34
ali1234	on a virtual machine? sure? why not?	16:35
javispedro	that is the same binary than runs on the actual phone, and it worked.	16:35
javispedro	so yes it runs same binaries.	16:35
javispedro	try that on the Maemo SDK.	16:35
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RST38h	lbt: No, which one?	16:36
crashanddie_	javispedro, when I played with it (round droid 0.8, beta version), the emulator ran different low-level libs in order to have applications and platform not crash as soon as you tried to access a non-existing device, such as GPS	16:36
javispedro	it won't even work in the true "Emulator" (armel target) since qemu's sbox version support for newer arm cpus is ... well.	16:36
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lbt	RST38h: I dl'ed Master Gear	16:36
RST38h	lbt: (I may have forgotten)	16:36
lbt	and put Sega_Tween_Game_Gear.zip in ~/MyDocs	16:36
lbt	I click on it and get a black screen	16:36
RST38h	Of course	16:36
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RST38h	MG does not support .zip files, and I am not sure why it should	16:36
crashanddie_	javispedro, I think I never compiled anything on device before the N900, everything was compiled in scratchbox, and then scp'd/or deb'd to the device	16:37
lbt	my other emulators did, and there are no docs and it accepted it...	16:37
RST38h	Either give it .sms/.gg file, or .sms.gz/.gg.gz	16:37
lbt	just as a comment	16:37
javispedro	crashanddie_: me neither, probably because "the emulator" in the diablo sdk was better.	16:37
RST38h	lbt: Quoting from the source code that prints help on "mg -help":	16:37
RST38h	"\nUsage: mg [-option1 [-option2...]] [filename]",	16:38
RST38h	"\n[filename] = Name of the file to load as a cartridge [CART.ROM]",	16:38
RST38h	#if defined(ZLIB)	16:38
RST38h	" This program will transparently uncompress GZIPped files.",	16:38
RST38h	#endif	16:38
crashanddie_	javispedro, sorry for the flaming btw, nothing personal	16:38
crashanddie_	I'm just starting to get pretty sick of all the people being so seriously anal about specific words	16:38
javispedro	crashanddie_: it's me who started the flaming, so don't worry.	16:38
lbt	RST38h: err, this is a gui? with an About menu	16:38
alterego	Heh	16:38
wazd	RST38h: well, since "party" will look like silent sitting in "Yaposhka" near the store and talking with tablet users, not bloggers, then why not? :)	16:38
crashanddie_	For fuck's sake, it's a word, who gives a shit about how it's capitalised or used, as long as the meaning remains clear	16:38
lbt	maybe that would be a place for help	16:38
lbt	but if you don't want the feedback, that's cool too :)	16:38
RST38h	wazd: Yea, I am absolutely for this kind of party, I like these	16:38
crashanddie_	and yes GeneralAntilles, I'm talking to you as well with the above statement	16:38
RST38h	wazd: It is jumping around with a horde of bloggers scavenging for free food that I detest :)	16:39
alterego	Hahahah	16:39
wazd	RST38h: people on n8xx.com agree with you :)	16:39
RST38h	lbt: I guess the main problem is that I do not provide a menu item that links to the help page	16:40
RST38h	lbt: I implemented this in Windows, but it is missing from Maemo apps	16:40
lbt	and, there's no unzip on the device	16:40
RST38h	lbt: unzip is actually available from Extras-Testing or -Devel	16:40
RST38h	lbt: (and no, it is not my problem :))	16:40
lbt	it's just not as slick as it could be IMHO	16:40
lbt	filter on filetype/extentions would be useful	16:41
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: My biggest complaint with your emulators is that it quits when it can't load a file. You get a message on the console; why not show it in the GUI and give the user a chance to load a different file?	16:41
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RST38h	lbt: Well...As far as ZIP handling is concerned, I would like to avoid it. It makes complete mess of the source code.	16:41
RST38h	lbt: And does not serve any useful purpose for myself, as I keep everything gzipped	16:41
RST38h	qwerty: That is easy to fix. I will try fixing it in the next release	16:42
lbt	isn't it how they're normally handled though?	16:42
RST38h	qwerty: If it is not too much of pain, remind me about it in 3-4 days	16:42
* lbt not an emu user really		16:42
RST38h	lbt: no	16:42
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: Thanks	16:42
RST38h	lbt: GZIP support is added trivially via ZLib and it is transparent	16:42
lbt	nod	16:42
lbt	tar.gz?	16:42
lbt	or gg.gz	16:43
RST38h	lbt: ZIP support means I have to replace fopen/fread/fclose with a bunch of really messy code not written by myself	16:43
RST38h	lbt> gg.gz	16:43
lbt	and do I need all the Source/ Stuff	16:43
RST38h	lbt: Think of it this way:	16:43
RST38h	lbt: you can have a directory with 100 .gg files that you gzip *.gg and compress them well, then stop thinking of them	16:43
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RST38h	lbt: Or you can have a directory with 100 .zip files containing Cthulhu knows what	16:44
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RST38h	lbt: And ask the emulator author to look into each file for you, pick a file that he thinks you consider relevant, and load it	16:44
RST38h	lbt: I would like to avoid the second route	16:44
lbt	sure but the sites ship .zip packages ...	16:45
derf	RST38h: Fortunately, no one cares what you like.	16:45
alterego	Has anyone wrote a script that does the inital validation that the promotion interface does?	16:46
alterego	Might be good to have that so you can check before upploading all your junk	16:46
lbt	so it's like saying that your package mgr prefers tar.gz so we should dl .deb files, unpack them and put them together again as .tar.gz files	16:46
lbt	again, trying to be constructive	16:46
RST38h	derf: the feeling is mutual :)	16:47
RST38h	lbt: My package prefers the type of files containing rom images for the hardware I aemulate	16:47
lbt	fair enough :)	16:47
RST38h	lbt: Handling for zip archives is provided by WinZip on windows, unzip on Linux	16:48
ali1234	this is why the "file soup" method of putting everything in one directory, and having each app try to guess which files it should and shouldn't show in file dialogues, completely and utterly sucks	16:48
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lardman	"morning"	16:48
RST38h	lbt: Having said that, I am sorry for not including a link to documentation into the package. Will have to fix it.	16:48
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RST38h	Also, the lack of filtering by extension someone has mentioned is mostly because I could not figure out how to implement it in HildonFM2 :)	16:49
lbt	Ah, I see the .gg.gz appears with a nice icon... would be good to have a filetype filter	16:49
lbt	heh	16:49
RST38h	Yea, if you show me how to do it ;)	16:49
javispedro	looking inside .zip files? pft.	16:50
javispedro	look at how slow nautilus is.	16:50
lbt	no, just an extension filter	16:50
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: Make them as normal (and, for libhildonfm2), explictly set that filter to be active?	16:50
RST38h	lbt: Notice that I set up the icons and the MIME types for all the relevant file types	16:50
lbt	yeah, nice	16:50
RST38h	lbt: So once you stop asking for weird crap (like ZIP file parsing) and switch to correct archival methods, it all "just works" :)	16:51
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lbt	and it launches...	16:51
RST38h	so it should	16:51
lbt	heh, no fair... you told me to dl a .zip file	16:51
RST38h	qwerty: Got a code snippet? ;)	16:51
qwerty12_N900	Nope =)	16:52
lbt	and mame uses zip files.... so when it opened it, I assumed it was all good	16:52
RST38h	lbt: but...mm...don't you know what to do with zip files? :)))	16:52
lbt	http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtkmm/unstable/classGtk_1_1FileFilter.html	16:52
RST38h	MAME is a bit different.	16:52
* lbt not a mame/emu expert...		16:52
RST38h	Actually, in the case of MAME, using .zips is the least of possible evils I think	16:52
javispedro	ah, are you discussing a standard extension filter for the file open dialog?	16:52
lbt	anyhow does that Sega_Tween_Game_Gear demo do anything	16:53
lbt	javispedro: yes	16:53
javispedro	i do that in drnoksnes gui, lemme check	16:53
RST38h	MAME's problem is that every coinop board has different number of roms arranged in different ways with a lot of extra stuff (like charsets, palettes, overlays)	16:53
RST38h	So, MAME is kinda like OpenOffice in terms of storage	16:53
RST38h	It has to contain lots of heterogenous data in a single file	16:53
RST38h	All the time providing access to individual parts of that data. Hence ZIP usage	16:53
javispedro	https://git.maemo.org/projects/drnoksnes/?p=drnoksnes;a=blob;f=gui/plugin.c;hb=HEAD#l126	16:54
RST38h	lbt: I have no idea what it does, just found you a homebrewn gg/sms rom to try :)	16:54
javispedro	^^ gtk_file_filter_add_pattern sample	16:54
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RST38h	lbt: You can google for real commercial sms/gg roms of course, but I can't legally provide you with any	16:54
RST38h	javis: Ahhhaaa!!!	16:55
javispedro	*.zip files =)	16:55
javispedro	well, see you	16:56
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lbt	heh, he beat me to it :)	16:57
Stskeepz	http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34043386/ns/travel-news?GT1=43001 <- wtf	17:03
qwerty12_N900	I know I shouldn't laugh, but...	17:04
alterego	:/ libreadline5-dev seems to be broken.	17:04
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Stskeepz	i wonder if nokia shops / suppliers / etc has a really bad impression of upcoming n900 users by now	17:06
alterego	Heh, probably.	17:07
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alterego	Though, if they see it for waht it is, anticipation, rather than just childish obsession :P	17:07
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Stskeepz	n900, turning people into madmen.	17:07
Stskeepz	which then will become more n900s.	17:07
Stskeepz	brilliant business model.	17:08
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alterego	I for one welcome our finnish overlords :P	17:08
lardman	qwerty12_N900: interesting, I think that's a 727, which has a runway takeoff length of 5,800', which is quite a bit more than the remaining length of that runway	17:09
RST38h	How do I delete a GtkFileFilter?	17:09
wazd	OH NO THEY DID IT!	17:10
RST38h	?	17:10
lardman	what do people recommend for a music player/centre app?	17:10
* RST38h sighs at lardman		17:10
lardman	desktop	17:11
wazd	Twitter updates as a feature in MaeVoice :D	17:11
RST38h	Oh, that...	17:11
Stskeepz	wazd: keeping up to date with n900 news!	17:11
RST38h	lardman: WinAmp :)	17:11
Stskeepz	:P	17:11
lardman	Pre-installed Rhythmbox has just gone tits up	17:11
wazd	http://vimeo.com/7743059	17:11
RST38h	lardman: Whatever looks like WinAmp on Linux will do	17:11
wazd	I can EVEN update tweets! No way!	17:12
wazd	:D	17:12
lardman	yeah, am just trying to select from a long list of names tho	17:12
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* lardman tries Exaile		17:12
RST38h	lardman: pointless, go with winamp clone.	17:13
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RST38h	lardman: tried that before, only winamp works :)	17:13
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RST38h	there was one more, apparently done in Motif (!), but I no longer remember the name	17:13
qwerty12_N900	lardman: Amarok, but the older versions were way better	17:13
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ali1234	lots of people like banshee and songbird	17:15
Shapeshifter	songbird lol	17:15
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ali1234	i've given up on that now, i just use spotify	17:15
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lardman	I'll give Amarok a go, have to switch to Qt at some point anyway ;)	17:16
* qwerty12_N900 uses it in GNOME		17:16
Shapeshifter	Don't even try giving songbird more then like 10000 tracks or it will fall from the sky like a lame duck	17:16
lardman	qwerty12_N900: it's KDE based though	17:16
ali1234	yeah, same for banshee and rhythmbox	17:16
Shapeshifter	mpd + Ario = win.	17:16
qwerty12_N900	lardman: Still works	17:16
lardman	indeed	17:16
ali1234	maybe one day somebody will make a mp3 jukebox that doesn't choke on more than a couple of hundred files. but not today	17:17
Shapeshifter	ali1234: mpd.	17:17
ali1234	mpd is not a mp3 jukebox	17:17
ali1234	it has no damn gui	17:17
Shapeshifter	ali1234: you kidding >.> it has like a 100 guis.	17:17
ali1234	the mp3 playing backend is not the problem	17:17
Shapeshifter	and Ario is an awesome gui to mpd.	17:17
ali1234	the problem is all the indexing system are rubbish	17:17
ali1234	moving the player backend out of the gui is just pointless, since they all use gstreamer anyway	17:18
ali1234	none of them are even responsible for playback	17:19
Shapeshifter	ali1234: so you think it's pointless that mpd is a backend many people can use while choosing a frontend they like? like, a web frontend if you need it, or gtk, or qt, or with lots of stuff, or with little, or command line.	17:19
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ali1234	yes, because the little command line part is superfluous and gstreamer is vastly superior	17:20
ali1234	i don't need yet another mp3 playing tool and all the associated audio configuration drama	17:20
RST38h	wazd: I am still missing point of MaeVoice	17:20
Shapeshifter	ali1234: gstreamer can index my music?	17:21
RST38h	wazd: Most videos look like Alcoholics Anonymous admissions	17:21
ali1234	Shapeshifter: that's exactly the problem. nothing can index music in a decent way on linux	17:21
Shapeshifter	ali1234: what's wrong with mpd?	17:21
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie_, I do. :)	17:21
range	mpd does a good job doing so.	17:21
GeneralAntilles	ali1234, really interested in that list myself. :)	17:22
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Shapeshifter	ali1234: and what audio configuration drama are you talking about?	17:23
range	All I need is a non web gui for Maemo 5 (ncmpc probably is a bit fiddly on there)	17:23
lardman	rubbish, won't even play music while importing	17:23
lardman	too much time wasted, /me cracks on with coding and uses N900 for music	17:24
ali1234	Shapeshifter: the audio configuration drama is the one where anything that isn't gstreamer chokes to death on pulseaudio	17:24
Shapeshifter	ali1234: lol.... just install OSS for gods sake.	17:24
Shapeshifter	alsa is rubbish anyway	17:24
ali1234	and the problem with mpd is it combines a bunch of stuff that really shouldn't be combined, in a way which is totally incompatible with all other software	17:24
Shapeshifter	and complete and utter rubbish at that.	17:24
lardman	hmm, has anyone compiled battlegweled for Fremantle?	17:25
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Shapeshifter	ali1234: I still don't see what you're talking about. I can run mpd, listen to music, see a flash movie at the same time in firefox and put mplayer on top of that, if I ever wanted to do that. Sound is not a problem, I don't see what mpd has got to do with any of this.	17:25
Shapeshifter	Just because pulseaudio and alsa suck, doesn't mean mpd sucks >.>	17:25
ali1234	this is it though, pulseaudio does not suck for me	17:26
ali1234	what sucks is programs that don't bother to implement pulse support, instead taking the "not invented here" approach	17:26
RST38h	ahreally?	17:26
Shapeshifter	the only ever reason to use alsa is because OSS doesn't support USB sound recording (i.e. webcam mics), which is reallly sad, but other then that it's totally awesome.	17:26
Shapeshifter	ali1234: pulse support? *rolleyes	17:27
ali1234	yes pulse support	17:27
Shapeshifter	ali1234: run it through padsp.	17:27
range	Hmmm. I think the mpd I'm listening to right now has pulse support.	17:27
ali1234	padsp emulates OSS, not ALSA	17:27
ali1234	so it's only useful for a subset of all broken apps	17:28
ali1234	but hey, if you're too lazy to implement it, you could always just use gstreamer	17:28
RST38h	Should we also implement support for ALSA, ESD, ARTS?	17:28
ali1234	nope	17:28
Shapeshifter	ali1234: so you think that all apps need to start supporting the inane alsa/pulse duct-tape solution?	17:28
ali1234	especially not ESD and ARTS, nobody important has used those for at least 10 years	17:29
RST38h	Then I will probably just wait for a year or two for PA to die its natural death.	17:29
RST38h	;)	17:29
ali1234	actually i would suggest that nobody ever implement an mp3 player that hits the hardware directly	17:29
ali1234	instead, use gstreamer	17:29
GeneralAntilles	ali1234, still waiting on that list. ;)	17:30
ali1234	GeneralAntilles: at the moment it's just you	17:31
GeneralAntilles	ali1234, ah, good to know.	17:31
RST38h	So, ali, no list?	17:31
GeneralAntilles	ali1234, let me know when you get a clue.	17:31
* RST38h kinda forgot but was reminded by General		17:31
ali1234	GeneralAntilles: sure. let me know when you stop being a hypocrite :)	17:31
GeneralAntilles	'cause right now you don't have one about me or what I contribute to this community.	17:31
ali1234	GeneralAntilles: you're right. all i know about what you contribute is what i get from reading what you write	17:32
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GeneralAntilles	Nor, apparently, how bugzilla works or what my comments about it mean.	17:32
* GeneralAntilles isn't surprised, anyway.		17:33
ali1234	really, what does bugzilla have to do with anything? i don't recall saying bugzilla was particularly bad?	17:33
lardman	hmm, Amarok doesn't actually play anyway	17:33
ali1234	although i might have at some point. but i don't think it's the worst bug tracker or anything	17:34
RST38h	lardman: XMMS.	17:34
RST38h	lardman: Believe me, it is going to be nother quest for the holy grail =)	17:34
lardman	I'm after something with a library	17:34
RST38h	Ah	17:34
lardman	well Amarok quite literally does not play anyway	17:35
RST38h	Does anything play? It may be a problem with the audio driver after all	17:35
lardman	nah the previous problem was a missing gst component, but I've no idea how it went missing	17:35
lardman	and now, no, afaict nothing plays from Amarok	17:36
qwerty12_N900	lardman: It saw your GStreamer code coming	17:36
lardman	it's decided to rescan though	17:36
lardman	crap software	17:36
* lardman fires up mplayer		17:36
RST38h	GStreamer has not gone missing. It hid!	17:36
lardman	ok, so other apps are happy to output audio	17:37
GeneralAntilles	ali1234, my recommendation is that you focus on that reading thing. It's not working so well for you right now.	17:38
alterego	Heh	17:38
alterego	maemo.org is always so bloody sllow for me.	17:38
ali1234	GeneralAntilles: keep up the attacks, it's really convincing me that i should re-evaluate my opinion of you	17:39
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RST38h	Gentlemen, could you just stop it?	17:40
RST38h	It is not worth the quarrel, really.	17:40
pupnik_	whoever made this xterm open links so easy deserves @big THANKS!	17:40
pupnik_	NO MORE hilighting the url like a monkey in a bad video game	17:41
alterego	:)	17:42
RST38h	if you mean gnome terminal, it has got a few worse problems	17:42
lardman	aargh, I'm going to strangle that bloody wolf	17:42
lardman	just sitting there laughing (silently) at me	17:42
RST38h	like its insistance on focusing at the tab level	17:42
RST38h	s/level/label	17:42
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petteri	is there a way to get visual bell stuff into notifications with the xterm. It would be nice with irssi and mutt	17:45
pupnik_	~ < RST38h> lardman: Whatever looks like WinAmp on Linux will do	17:46
Shapeshifter	soo... is there a way to get qt and pyqt into the maemo5 sdk?	17:46
alterego	Shapeshifter: not in the repositories?	17:47
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pupnik_	default media player is good enough for me this time. i likes it	17:48
lardman	pupnik_: I know, but I can't see the buggers	17:48
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RST38h	pupnik: he needs the one for the desktop not for N900	17:50
pupnik_	o	17:51
lardman	GStreamer-WARNING **: Failed to load plugin '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstschro.so': /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstschro.so: undefined symbol: schro_virt_frame_new_vert_downsample	17:51
lardman	that's my problem	17:51
Shapeshifter	alterego: apparently not. apt-cache qt shows some qt libs but no package "qt" and pyqt isn't there at all.	17:51
RST38h	So much for using gstreamer...	17:52
lardman	have fixed that by removing some packages, but rhythmbox still won't start, and fails silently	17:53
* lardman reaches for a stick with which to hit the computer		17:53
RST38h	Spanking penguins?	17:53
lardman	more like cracking penguin skulls open	17:53
RST38h	What would PETA say?	17:53
qwerty12_N900	He'd buy them off with some wine	17:54
lardman	hmm, banshee is written in mono?	17:56
range	Yes.	17:56
* lardman tries it anyway		17:56
RST38h	[state-of-factly] Castle Anthrax	17:57
DeadDodo	Mono's a pain in the ass. And not because of the Microsoft affiliation, either. It's bloody slow.	17:57
alterego	Seems to just be me using the auto-builder today :P	17:58
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lardman	ah, finally, banshee at least plays music	18:00
* lardman now moves onto cursing segfaults		18:00
alterego	Heh	18:00
alterego	What are you trying tt odo lardman? Just listen to music?	18:00
lardman	trying to code	18:01
lardman	but wanted to listen to music, so have actually spent the best part of a hour installing stuff that won't work	18:01
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lardman	so am feeling nice and relaxed now :)	18:01
alterego	Hahah	18:01
lardman	or not	18:01
* lardman goes and get a beer		18:01
alterego	What distro you using?	18:01
lardman	Ubuntu	18:01
alterego	Weird, I use rhythmbox just fone on buntu	18:02
alterego	~fine ..	18:02
* infobot requires .. to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies		18:02
DeadDodo	Mmmm.	18:02
lardman	I did until today, when it stopped working	18:02
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lardman	no clue why, worked this morning, not this afternoon, no updates inbetween	18:03
alterego	Interesting,	18:03
lardman	well I know the error - is further up the page, but that doesn't even seem to have been the issue	18:03
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RST38h	~fine alterego	18:04
* infobot requires alterego to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies		18:04
alterego	rawr	18:05
alterego	What did I do? :(	18:05
alterego	Is it me wasting all the resources on the auto-builder? :P	18:05
RST38h	gave me a wrong idea.	18:05
lardman	hmm osso_get_sys_dbus_connection() is segfaulting	18:06
RST38h	That is usually sufficient, too...	18:06
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lardman	hmm, what causes osso_initialize() to fail?	18:09
lardman	ah, version number I bet	18:09
RST38h	haven't been checking the result of osso_initialize, have we? ;)	18:10
Macer	n900 out yet?	18:10
* Macer grins		18:10
RST38h	It is out at NYC =)	18:11
Macer	chicago too from what i've heard	18:11
RST38h	Or so they say. Might be something in the water though.	18:11
Macer	"heard"	18:11
Macer	heh	18:11
lardman	hmm, still failing	18:14
RST38h	Ok, it is C# night for me =(	18:15
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: Condolences	18:16
konttori	lcuk: you around?	18:16
RST38h	btw, added extension filters, just need to test	18:16
RST38h	and if someone tells me how to start web browser from a program, I will add links to documentation	18:16
lardman	in C?	18:17
konttori	I have a small idea to add to file manager: new and modified to be on the top level of fm. It would query from tracker last 50 modified or added items (sorted by that field), and allow thus quick access to the new content.	18:17
konttori	(btw: anybody is welcome to comment if that sounds good or bad)	18:17
pupnik_	nice nice	18:17
lardman	anyone know how to debug osso startup problems?	18:17
konttori	It should be pretty trivial (and safe) change	18:17
Jaffa	konttori: Sounds good	18:17
pupnik_	i would use it	18:17
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crashanddie__	"Officials in Spain tackle masturbation hands on"	18:18
lardman	lol	18:18
qwerty12_N900	Pedos in government?	18:19
crashanddie__	"Who gives a shit about the economy, let's teach our kids how to spank the monkey!"	18:19
crashanddie__	Just goes to show how useless government officials really are	18:19
crashanddie__	and how little work they accomplish	18:19
pupnik_	when is kbd backlight on n900 supposed to come on!	18:20
pupnik_	it is dark here	18:20
crashanddie__	pupnik_, when you press it	18:20
crashanddie__	pupnik_, and it's open	18:20
pupnik_	closing and reopening slide displaz worked ty	18:20
pupnik_	the letter widths are not perfect	18:21
pupnik_	u is darker than i	18:21
pupnik_	how is that for a product hardware complaint? i dont know what else seems imperfect	18:22
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ali1234	you think they're going to put an LED under each key?	18:23
pupnik_	nope	18:23
ali1234	oh wait, you're joking :)	18:23
lardman	wow, it works	18:24
lardman	I was testing from the command line and it wasn't working, but from the menu it does	18:24
lardman	and it even rotatesa	18:24
lardman	cool	18:24
SpeedEvil	ali1234: optimus-stylee would be cool	18:24
pupnik_	what are you doing lardman ?	18:24
alterego	That tmo thread about the ovi store license is funny.	18:25
alterego	Is it me or is tmo getting really dumb?	18:25
RST38h	SpeedEvil: isn't this what touch screen is about?	18:25
lardman	pupnik_: adding rotation support to mbarcode	18:25
pupnik_	you have barcode recognition working? congrats!	18:26
RST38h	alterego: the AI server that provided smart comments has been turned off	18:26
GeneralAntilles	alterego, it's long past dumb.	18:26
RST38h	too much resources drain	18:26
* GeneralAntilles notices Reggie pushing Talk for MWN.		18:26
konttori	I think that if kb is open, the device should always be in landscape mode	18:26
RST38h	tmo or his own Maemo Talk?	18:26
GeneralAntilles	tmo	18:26
lardman	~MWN	18:27
lardman	~google MWN	18:27
GeneralAntilles	lardman, see the recent -community thread.	18:27
mza	so which plan do i need to get tmo 3g? same plan i had on my G1?	18:27
RST38h	konttori: that feels correct, but somehow I suspect there is going to be a case or two against that =)	18:27
lardman	ah, the magazine	18:27
lardman	?	18:27
GeneralAntilles	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/55170	18:27
lardman	Jaffa's weekly news	18:27
konttori	i think it's still better than having otherwise accidental rotations	18:28
alterego	konttori: even when remaping the arrow keys to compensate for it in tetris? :)	18:28
SpeedEvil	RST38h: yes - but not quite	18:28
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Interesting indeed. Don't quite see how it'd work.	18:28
GeneralAntilles	Discussion of articles should go wherever the article subject originated.	18:28
RST38h	konttori: how about disabling auto-rotate but still letting application rforce portrait mode?	18:29
konttori	alterego: tetris is only in portrai	18:29
lardman	Jaffa: btw I'd be happy to contribute	18:29
Jaffa	lardman: excelllent :)	18:29
alterego	I don't know whether weekly is too much,.	18:30
alterego	Well, actually it probably isn't.	18:30
konttori	hey, is there a rar available for the device?	18:30
alterego	But I think maybe have a monthly larger edition? With like some code smnippets and tutorials or stuff.	18:30
lardman	hmm, starts being real work then though	18:31
GeneralAntilles	alterego, what, and step all over christexaport's shoes? ;)	18:31
alterego	Yeah, hence having that bit monthly, gives some time to work on publishing larger articles.	18:31
alterego	Though, admittedly there is the blog-o-sphere to do our own stuff.	18:32
* RST38h has seen unrar somewhere		18:32
GeneralAntilles	Then you'd be stealing audience from people who already bought their own space. :roll:	18:32
Jaffa	alterego: Well volunteered :)	18:32
lardman	lol	18:32
* RST38h humbly suggests to Jaffa et al using newlc.com format rather than weekly		18:32
alterego	newlc is pretty well done.	18:33
Jaffa	RST38h: Isn't that basically a blog?	18:33
RST38h	Although they have changed the design in the wrong way lately	18:34
RST38h	Jaffa: Kinda	18:34
lardman	agregator?	18:34
RST38h	Jaffa: It is different from the normlal blog because they provide quality news (rather than random stuff) and periodically do specialized tutorials	18:34
RST38h	With code snippets and stuff	18:34
RST38h	So, the article quality at newlc is about the same as you propose	18:35
Jaffa	Ah, agreed. Ther's a space for that - but as lardman says, starts being real work then.	18:35
RST38h	But they just keep the flow, not doing weekly stuff	18:35
* Jaffa will leave high quality in-depth journalism to christaexport for now.		18:35
Jaffa	True	18:35
RST38h	Well, if you strive to finish it by the end of each week, it is real work	18:35
RST38h	If you finish it when you finish it, it is still bearable I guess	18:36
* RST38h tries to somehow summarize the situation		18:36
lardman	need to get some journo types involved then	18:36
lardman	as they will want to do it	18:36
RST38h	Let us see...	18:36
RST38h	1. We have a bunch of blogs from individuals, of different quality	18:37
RST38h	2. We have an aggregator of these blogs	18:37
RST38h	3. We have a forum	18:37
RST38h	One thing we miss (and I guess this is what Jaffa is trying to achieve) is a "manual" aggregator that only collects the top quality blog entries and removes all repeats	18:38
Jaffa	RST38h: Correct.	18:38
RST38h	Jaffa: In fact, I even know where you can stick it	18:38
lardman	and also someone to summarise the very long TMO threads	18:38
lardman	and ml ones	18:38
RST38h	Jaffa: maemo.org News section	18:38
Jaffa	And fish out the quality stuff from a thousand-long thread	18:38
RST38h	Jaffa: As opposed to the Planet subesection of News	18:38
Jaffa	RST38h: Slightly harder cos of the way that works (and would require the content to be entered into midgard, AIUI)	18:38
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Jaffa	At least with Planet can do output however one wants and have it included.	18:39
RST38h	Jaffa: Well, that is something maemo.org team should work on	18:39
alterego	What will the format of this emag be?	18:39
RST38h	Jaffa: Also, do steal newlc's idea of color-coding articles	18:40
lcuk	konttori, ping	18:40
SpeedEvil	RST38h: but...	18:40
RST38h	Jaffa: According to the thematics (i.e. news, review, developer stuff, etc)	18:40
SpeedEvil	RST38h: that'll lead to scrolling past reams and reams of white on white posts.	18:40
RST38h	why?	18:41
SpeedEvil	oh - blogs - I thought you were talking about highlighting talk threads	18:41
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Jaffa	alterego: HTML, lightweight. Downloadable or readable. Other formats in future, perhaps.	18:43
RST38h	Jaffa: By "lightweight" you do not mean current maemo.org and tmi themes, I hope?	18:45
RST38h	s/tmi/tmo	18:45
lcuk	i like the slashdot approach to forums, having moderation and filtering to just show the 5 decent comments on a thread	18:45
RST38h	On ./, you are really better off not seeing any comments...	18:45
RST38h	Keeps your faith in humanity safe, you know	18:46
alterego	Heh	18:46
alterego	tmo is starting to get that feel too now though :P	18:46
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alterego	Who's going to pay for the therapy of the tmo monitors?	18:47
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lardman	lol	18:47
* qwerty12_N900 nominates alterego		18:47
alterego	Hah	18:47
lardman	I find one-touch-band-and-removing people stops me needing therapy ;)	18:47
lardman	s/band/ban	18:48
GeneralAntilles	Use that power with less discretion, please.	18:48
lardman	:)	18:49
SpeedEvil	'This one time, at ban camp'	18:49
alterego	Hah	18:49
suihkulokki	does talk have moderators?	18:49
* GeneralAntilles is personally in favor of applying the beatdown to people who troll about "Fixed in Fremantle" in otherwise productive threads.		18:49
GeneralAntilles	suihkulokki, yes.	18:49
lardman	perhaps more MW4 first to get the right mindset	18:49
GeneralAntilles	suihkulokki, problem is that historically speaking there was only one and he was never very proactive in his application of moderation.	18:50
alterego	I do wonder about maemo "news" because I don't seem to find much "news" anywhere.	18:50
GeneralAntilles	suihkulokki, so it's a lot more lenient than many forums.	18:50
alterego	I think the only news I see is generally new SDK releases.	18:50
lbt	ooh, plug N900 into usb, select mass-storage. Instant reboot	18:50
alterego	IS there some resource I'm missing?	18:50
GeneralAntilles	alterego, Planet?	18:50
alterego	GeneralAntilles: bug fixes and random stuff about firefox mobile? :P	18:51
suihkulokki	GeneralAntilles: would certainly need more moderation imho :P	18:51
qwerty12_N900	Even Planet is going down the shitter with those stupid Twitter feeds	18:51
alterego	We need tree.maemo.org for twitter :P	18:51
GeneralAntilles	suihkulokki, I agree, but every time somebody tries to do something productive or useful on Talk the conspiracy theorists come swarming out screaming about the maemo.org cabal and Nokia's plan to steal their pocket lint.	18:51
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that Firefox feed really needs fixing.	18:52
GeneralAntilles	I think we just need to let everybody have their own domain where they only see the things they want to see.	18:52
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12.maemo.org only shows questionable material.	18:53
qwerty12_N900	Where can I sign up?	18:53
alterego	Heh	18:53
* SpeedEvil screams 'You can take our lives, but you can never take our lint!'		18:53
lbt	hmm, how about modding up/down? But only listening to mods from people you 'trust'	18:54
SpeedEvil	Web of trust type thingy	18:54
* lbt mods SpeedEvil down		18:54
lbt	no-one cares	18:54
lbt	:)	18:54
lbt	kinda	18:54
lbt	more social	18:54
lcukn900	slashdot	18:55
GeneralAntilles	Ugh	18:55
lbt	yeah, but there are some people on tmo who I'd trust to mod down the morons	18:55
SpeedEvil	lbt: sort of amazon 'recommendations' - but weighting mods against that	18:55
lbt	just slashdot I think	18:55
SpeedEvil	So rating a post down weights all the other mods that voted it down up for your personal weight	18:55
lbt	but only factoring in certain people's votes	18:55
lbt	no	18:56
alterego	I've got an even better idea, we can all look through the planet aggregation list and choose the sources that are actually useful :P	18:56
alterego	Then include them in our own RSS readers :P	18:56
lbt	just if I mod it down and you listen to me then you see it as -1. Otherwise you don't	18:56
lbt	alterego: I'm thinking about tmo	18:56
lcukn900	lbt i want wikipedia where i can change the bias. i want an article on manchester united from a man u fan	18:56
alterego	Ah	18:56
suihkulokki	alterego: click on the opml lnink to get the list of rss feeds in your rss app - then just remove anyones you don't want =)	18:56
lcukn900	same idea as you are thinking	18:56
alterego	I don't use tmo much, so I Don't really know.	18:57
alterego	suihkulokki: yeah, that's an even better idea :P	18:57
lcukn900	allow everyone to vote	18:57
lcukn900	but only account for friends votes	18:57
* lbt thinks tmo would be a wasteland after I got through with it ;D		18:57
lbt	lcukn900: yes	18:57
GeneralAntilles	lbt, sounds like a better plan.	18:57
lardman	hmm, so shall I unpack and then repack my H/VBoxes when the orientation changes?	18:57
GeneralAntilles	lbt, hasten it's demise so we can move on completely.	18:57
lbt	heh	18:57
alterego	I think we should forget about negative voting and just have positive.	18:58
suihkulokki	I think twitter feeds are not really useul on planet	18:58
GeneralAntilles	We should just troll relentlessly until useful content stops appearing.	18:58
lbt	alterego: nah, I want to positively ignore some posts	18:58
alterego	That's the problem, tmo is full of crap, if we had thumbs up and a section of tmo that showed the most "interesting" threads, we'd be fine.	18:58
qwerty12_N900	suihkulokki: Amen	18:58
GeneralAntilles	suihkulokki, most certainly.	18:58
lbt	suihkulokki: +1	18:58
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lardman	we should make gaining an account more difficult...	18:58
alterego	Yeah, lets have tree.maemo.org	18:58
lardman	perhaps a karma score of >200 or so?	18:58
alterego	lardman: not a bad idea.	18:59
GeneralAntilles	lardman, you have to answer a battery of historical questions about Maemo.	18:59
t_s_o	another september that never ends?	18:59
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GeneralAntilles	Which would disqualify jokers like that javispedro.	18:59
GeneralAntilles	ohdamn	18:59
lbt	you know, the +/- votes wouldn't even need to be visible	18:59
* javispedro poses and smiles		19:00
lbt	heh, how appropriate	19:00
t_s_o	obscure and useful or famous and useless...	19:00
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suihkulokki	GeneralAntilles: as a community member can you mail that to planet @ maemo.org :)	19:00
* lbt nervously watches a raid rebuild...		19:00
* suihkulokki delegates		19:00
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GeneralAntilles	suihkulokki, what, removing the twitter feeds?	19:01
suihkulokki	ya	19:01
alterego	Council member, we're all community members :P	19:01
GeneralAntilles	Somebody hit X-Fade once he gets back from vacation.	19:01
lcukn900	or change the layout	19:01
GeneralAntilles	alterego, nothing of the sort.	19:01
Jaffa	alterego: GeneralAntilles ain't on the council anymore	19:01
lcukn900	i like a sidebar of twits	19:01
lcukn900	but not main articles	19:01
alterego	Oh	19:02
alterego	Did you get too many -10's GeneralAntilles ? :)	19:02
Jaffa	Does Vimeo let you do any editing when you upload stuff?	19:02
GeneralAntilles	alterego, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council	19:02
GeneralAntilles	I didn't run for a 3rd term.	19:02
qwerty12_N900	Yeah, we all booed him off	19:02
* Stskeepz ponders if the price drops are due to increased demand		19:02
alterego	Yeah, I thought you'd still be in the Council, just not the leader?	19:03
GeneralAntilles	alterego, that was my second term. ;)	19:03
GeneralAntilles	A year was plenty long for me.	19:03
* lbt wonders about trying again to get contacts of his N900		19:03
GeneralAntilles	lbt, vCards?	19:04
lbt	?	19:04
lbt	go on...	19:04
GeneralAntilles	lbt, export some?	19:04
lardman	or I can point you at some code that will list the contacts for you	19:04
GeneralAntilles	Should be a menu option.	19:04
lbt	hmm, yes	19:04
lbt	I wanted syncml... but at this point...	19:04
lbt	GeneralAntilles: thanks :)	19:05
crashanddie__	lol	19:05
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lbt	lardman: yes please... I can then convert to ldif I guess	19:05
lardman	ok, hang on a tick	19:05
crashanddie__	fr.emploi.* (french newsgroups regarding jobs and recruiting) are dead, no new posts since april... The crunch is going strong!	19:05
goodwill	pardon me, for this stupid question: When talking about unlocked phones what does, "Carrier unlock", "international retail unlock" and "US retail unlock means"	19:05
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Stskeeps	does N900 even support simlock?	19:06
Stskeeps	:P	19:06
alterego	goodwill: not really the place to ask.	19:06
goodwill	the ones I see on newegg says US carrier unlock	19:06
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alterego	try ##gsm	19:06
qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps: If not this one, we know the device running Maemo 6 will =)	19:07
GeneralAntilles	goodwill, buy an N900, call it a day.	19:07
alterego	goodwill: it probably just means it'll work on any provider in he USA	19:07
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alterego	As it's a USA model N900 which is unlockedw	19:07
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lardman	http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/emerillon/test_abook.c	19:07
goodwill	alterego: only ask cause I am looking at the n900 and trying to figure out whether I'll be able to use it internationally	19:07
GeneralAntilles	alterego, minus CDMA and iDEN providers.	19:07
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lbt	lardman: ta	19:07
SpeedEvil	goodwill: yes.	19:07
lardman	np	19:07
SpeedEvil	goodwill: all - at the moment - n900s are the same hardware	19:07
SpeedEvil	(well - modulo keyboard)	19:07
GeneralAntilles	^	19:07
goodwill	it says "US retail unlock" though	19:07
goodwill	sighs	19:08
lardman	is designed to just print out online- contacts, but has to iterate through all of them to work that out, etc	19:08
alterego	goodwill: all can be fixed with a software update.	19:08
SpeedEvil	And I don't think anyone is actually selling locked n900s yet	19:08
GeneralAntilles	goodwill, Newegg also claims Mozilla made the built-in browser and that it's Maemo's first mobile computer. ;)	19:08
GeneralAntilles	goodwill, Newegg likes to throw around random buzzwords	19:08
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: did you contact newegg?	19:08
DeadDodo	NewEgg needs to do research for more then 20 seconds.	19:08
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, haven't bothered trying to find a contact address yet.	19:08
DeadDodo	than* 20...	19:09
GeneralAntilles	than*	19:09
goodwill	I am still not sure where to get an n900 that is completely unlocked then	19:09
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: hrm	19:09
timeless_mbp	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205178	19:09
GeneralAntilles	goodwill, there are no locked N900s. :)	19:09
timeless_mbp	Maemo Browser powered by Mozilla technology	19:09
timeless_mbp	that's ok	19:09
timeless_mbp	which part am i looking for?	19:09
alterego	goodwill: they're all completely unlocked, were you not listening to what we were saying?	19:09
goodwill	alterego: alright	19:10
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, one of the questions in the giveaway quiz.	19:10
timeless_mbp	oh	19:10
goodwill	thank you	19:10
timeless_mbp	nice	19:10
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DeadDodo	Giveaway quiz?	19:10
GeneralAntilles	http://promotions.newegg.com/Sweepstakes/NokiaN900/index.html?cm_mmc=SNC-Facebook-_-na-_-na-_-na	19:10
alterego	Also, unless they say "N900, locked to vodafone" it's unlikely to be locked to anything, it should have been a bit more of a giveaway that they said it was "unlocked".	19:10
timeless_mbp	http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/OverView.aspx#ContactUsTab	19:10
timeless_mbp	* LiveChat Hours of Operation:	19:10
timeless_mbp	* Mon - Fri: 5:30am - 5:30pm PT	19:10
GeneralAntilles	"Mozilla, the makers of Firefox, created an internet browser for the N900 that supports flash and video, so you can experience the web just like you do on your computer."	19:10
alterego	Though I can understand the confusing with "USA"	19:10
alterego	~confusion.l	19:10
pupnik_	is media player not playing youtube flvs a bug? or a mikssing feature?	19:11
pupnik_	missing	19:11
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: not false actually	19:11
RST38h	pupnik: Depends	19:11
timeless_mbp	it doesn't say "created the browser	19:11
RST38h	pupnik: I would say it is a missing decoder, i.e. this is not a bug	19:11
pupnik_	k	19:11
Stskeeps	then again, i don't understand what's limiting n900 to be non-simlockable. i mean, all the celluar modem stuff is closed and in a diff chip..	19:11
alterego	timeless_mbp: well their ambiguous grammer is a different issue all together :P	19:11
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Stskeeps	and you could probably lock on that level :P	19:12
alterego	Stskeeps, I believe locks _are_ done on that level.	19:12
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timeless_mbp	i'm pretty sure i've translated strings for locked n900s	19:12
pupnik_	should i file a feature request to play back youtube flvs?	19:12
alterego	But how many operators do you know of that are selling the N900's right now?	19:12
timeless_mbp	alterego: there's one in england	19:12
alterego	timeless_mbp: really? Who?	19:13
timeless_mbp	other than that, i don't know of any	19:13
SpeedEvil	alterego: that's not an operator	19:13
GeneralAntilles	Indeed	19:13
SpeedEvil	alterego: it's a mobile phone store that applies the kickback they get from the network for a new connect to provide a phone.	19:13
RST38h	pupnik: Just call it properly: "Please, implement flv decoding plugin"	19:13
alterego	Heh	19:13
SpeedEvil	However - vodafone.ie have said they will carry it	19:13
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alterego	Oh, like, car phone werehouse or something.	19:14
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RST38h	DivX decoder is also missing and there have been multiple complaints about H.264 decoder completeness	19:14
qwerty12_N900	pupnik_: Installing zoutube will install gstreamer-flv, at least	19:14
alterego	Yeah, Vodafone have said they'd provide it, but not until next yeaer, and they really _love_ branding their scht.	19:14
RST38h	qwerty: Won't that fix pupnik's problem?	19:14
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qwerty12_N900	RST38h: Not sure if the Media player will start to list FLVs...	19:15
qwerty12_N900	But it should be able to play them if it does do so	19:15
RST38h	listing flvs is something tracker should do?	19:15
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RST38h	qwerty: Btw, is it at all possible to implement subtitles inside the current gst framework?	19:16
GeneralAntilles	My neighbor really loves practicing the clarinet.	19:16
RST38h	qwerty: I.e. without involving Nokia and preferably by using an existing component?	19:16
lbt	hmm, the contents of the zipfiles in a backup are interesting	19:16
alterego	RST38h: gstreamer has a plugin that'll render fonts	19:16
RST38h	lbt: If you want to change the address book this way, it does not work :(	19:16
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: zaheerm tried, but it requires being able to get the name of the currently playing file	19:16
lbt	ah	19:16
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SpeedEvil	https://forum.vodafone.ie/index.php?/topic/1140-nokia-n900/ - vodafone.ie	19:16
RST38h	lbt: If you find a way, PLEASE let me know	19:17
timeless_mbp	there's a comment in a vodafone.co.uk forum from someone at vodafone indicating they expected to have the n900	19:17
SpeedEvil	alterego: exactly	19:17
lbt	RST38h: nod	19:17
* RST38h has got a whole address book of phone numbers starting with 8-		19:17
RST38h	Need to change 'em to +7	19:17
timeless_mbp	+7 ??	19:17
timeless_mbp	russia?	19:17
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lardman	if I place an HBox and a VBox into another box and only fill one, does the other take up no (screen) space?	19:19
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lbt	lardman: depends on stretch	19:21
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lbt	and thumb and border and...	19:21
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lbt	but yes	19:21
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: are you sure you're not thinking of .ie?	19:22
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: the forum hit i have is .co.uk	19:23
timeless_mbp	http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35671	19:23
timeless_mbp	(bah, fish it out of google cache)	19:23
SpeedEvil	timeless_mbp: as soon as last week - the forum mods on .co.uk have been saying 'we can't say', look on 'coming soon' - where it doesn't appear	19:23
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: ah	19:23
Jaffa	RST38h: Export all contacts as vCard, regexp search & replace, re-import	19:26
* Jaffa did that to make sure all his numbers were internationalised		19:26
RST38h	Jaffa: Will it merge stuff automagically?	19:27
lbt	Jaffa: are you aware of any work to sort out syncing to Linux desktops?	19:27
Jaffa	lbt: I'm not aware of any	19:27
lardman	lbt: thanks	19:27
Jaffa	RST38h: No, but it should keep fidelity if you delete all and re-import.	19:27
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Jaffa	RST38h: Take a backup to be sure, though ;-)	19:27
RST38h	qwerty: Well, it can probably show a file open dialog to select subtitle file on init?	19:28
RST38h	Jaffa: Hmmm...ok. Sounds mighty dangerous though	19:28
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lardman	hmm, can I add the same widget to two boxes, and only display one of them?	19:29
lbt	no	19:29
qwerty12	RST38h: Not a bad idea... Now you've got me interested, lol	19:29
lardman	thought not	19:29
Jaffa	RST38h: Why? VCFs are a trivial text-based format.	19:30
lbt	you can move a widget between two locations	19:30
lardman	yep, was just trying to avoid repacking new boxes, etc	19:30
javispedro	oh, I would be interested in knowing how to get the name of the currently played filename from a gst demuxer	19:30
Shapeshifter	guys, I'm trying to add extras-devel to my SDK but I can't find how to do that. The extras-devel page doesn't even feature deb lines of the repo	19:31
qwerty12	Shapeshifter: http://repository.maemo.org.	19:31
javispedro	even though I think it goes against gst principles... since basically it could be not a file but a pipe, etc.	19:31
lbt	there was a discussion recently on the correct flashing order... eMMC then fiasco or vice-versa....	19:32
Shapeshifter	qwerty12: ahh thanks.	19:32
lbt	any conclusion?	19:32
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Shapeshifter	mhh. but for some reason these 404 if I add them and then run apt-get update: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/unknown/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found [IP: 213.155.157.9 80]	19:34
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Shapeshifter	same for Err http://repository.maemo.org unknown/free Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 213.155.157.9 80]	19:34
Shapeshifter	mh I guess that should say fremantle	19:35
Shapeshifter	and not unknown >.>	19:35
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Shapeshifter	nevermind, it's working now.	19:35
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Shapeshifter	but at least in the SDK the .install link to add repos seems to be broken.	19:36
lardman	ok, so if I destroy a box, but it contains widgets to which I still hold a reference, is the box destroyed and the widgets remain ok?	19:38
lardman	hmm, must be a cleaner way to do this	19:38
RST38h	Jaffa: I know, just being afraid that some part of the process will scre up (as always)	19:38
pupnik_	wow, the new fresh faces at tmo	19:38
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pupnik_	"what does dosbox emulate?" ... /me crawls towards his coffin	19:39
lardman	tell them "boxes"	19:40
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pupnik_	dasbox	19:40
pupnik_	l m a o	19:40
type_t2	dos =microsoft operating (Disk Opera.. Sys..)< D O S	19:41
type_t2	the BALDER.img on a ubuntu .iso is an image of FreeDOS.	19:42
pupnik_	ah?	19:42
javispedro	and what's FreeDOS doing in a ubuntu iso?	19:42
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type_t2	so can you use dosbox to work an Freedos floppy??	19:42
RST38h	pupnik: troll 'em!	19:43
pupnik_	i forgot. think it has own dos builtin	19:43
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javispedro	dosbox has own dos builtin.	19:43
type_t2	they put it in i case you got to boot linux the Hard way using command line with dos ..Lin.. something.	19:44
pupnik_	lardman's offhand genius will be the foundation of my millions someday	19:44
lcuk	you know the charging animation when the device is switched off	19:44
pupnik_	das box	19:44
javispedro	in case you want to waste time I guess :)	19:44
lcuk	can i change that for amiga workbench	19:44
Shapeshifter	Mh. I can't find the sqlite3 bindings for python in the repos. Well, at least not in extras-devel. There is an extras repo for fremantle, isn't there? it's not on that page	19:44
lcuk	<lardman> tell them "boxes" hahahaha	19:45
lardman	so many levels ;)	19:45
type_t2	javispedro Do you want to waste time?..	19:45
timeless_mbp	RST38h: so... one of the fields is a creation date	19:45
javispedro	no, I would like to have more time to waste =)	19:45
timeless_mbp	afaiu the creation date is how merges are handled	19:46
* lardman has boxes, of the GTK persuasion, on the mind atm		19:46
timeless_mbp	two nodes w/ the same creation stamp are related	19:46
timeless_mbp	and the one w/ the newer modification stamp wins	19:46
timeless_mbp	(at least, in general)	19:46
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* timeless_mbp frowns		19:47
timeless_mbp	um... GeneralAntilles ?	19:47
timeless_mbp	why does the package promotion system record my ip address?	19:47
timeless_mbp	if it records my name, surely that's sufficient	19:47
type_t2	nothing is sufficient when Data Mining.	19:48
timeless_mbp	but i don't want to be data mined	19:48
timeless_mbp	i am not a number!	19:48
timeless_mbp	are you number 2?	19:48
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type_t2	check your wallet and there is Licence number a SS number ..	19:49
suihkulokki	I am not a number. I am a free man!	19:49
DeadDodo	You're number 3456032. Now shut up.	19:49
timeless_mbp	http://www.museum.tv/eotvsection.php?entrycode=prisonerthe	19:49
timeless_mbp	type_t2: i'm unlicensed :)	19:49
thomastim	juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html	19:49
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timeless_mbp	http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3456032.html UTILIZATION OF PROPANE RECOVERED FROM LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS	19:50
suihkulokki	timeless_mbp: I only know that from sample iron maiden uses..	19:50
suihkulokki	fear of the dark \,./	19:50
timeless_mbp	suihkulokki: aww, we need to get you some episodes from the prinsoner	19:50
timeless_mbp	s/prinsoner/prisoner/	19:51
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: suihkulokki: aww, we need to get you some episodes from the prisoner	19:51
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lardman	~lart Gnome for the taskbar locking up	19:51
* infobot slaps Gnome upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh for the taskbar locking up		19:51
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* Shapeshifter is still looking for a way to get python sqlite3 bindings into his sdk :\|		19:52
DeadDodo	You think Gnome's bad now? Wait until Gnome 3.0. It'll be the KDE crapfest all over again.	19:52
* lardman will move to KDE then		19:53
javispedro	no, because Gnome3 is basically removing the taskbar, so at least it won't hang =)	19:53
lardman	I'll simply move with Nokia ;)	19:53
lardman	really, news to me	19:53
lardman	sounds... interesting	19:53
DeadDodo	By then, maybe KDE will be a decent desktop. It's getting better over time, although I don't think it'll ever quite get back to the level of the 3.x series.	19:54
javispedro	np, we'll switch to enlightment	19:55
RST38h	javis: what is coming instead of task bar?	19:55
* RST38h likes current gnome		19:55
DeadDodo	I'll link you a youtube vid of it, because it's sort of hard to explain. Imagine a virtual desktop switcher as a taskbar and launcher.	19:55
javispedro	RST38h: something weird with parts of it written in javascript	19:55
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RST38h	ohmygod	19:56
javispedro	that's all /me needs to know about it =)	19:56
DeadDodo	Here's a nice vid of a recent build: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjoUlCbVHDE	19:56
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RST38h	javis: desktop widgets?	19:57
DeadDodo	No desktop widgets that I've heard of, no.	19:57
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DeadDodo	Oh wait, nevermind.	19:57
RST38h	http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/09/gnome-3-quick-visual-tour.html	19:58
javispedro	but I was thinking desktop widgets -- I think the transitions and rest of stuff is written in js	19:58
javispedro	s/I was/I wasn't	19:58
Jaffa	GNOME 3 seems to remind me of Maemo 5 :)	19:58
RST38h	yea	19:58
* RST38h wishes people stopped "improving" desktops		19:58
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* Jaffa leaves RST38h with his Windows 1.0 and GEM...		19:59
javispedro	now move the global menu bar to the top and tada!	19:59
lcuk	wow gnome3 looks like liqbase	19:59
RST38h	Workbench was fine	19:59
DeadDodo	It reminds me of a bloody bad idea. There are rumors that Canonical's gonna hire people to fork Gnome because they think that Gnome 3 will kill their user base.	19:59
Jaffa	Not that I think GNOME 3's going in the right direction (or the wrong one); but it's good to push these thoughts out there.	19:59
* Jaffa guru meditates all over RST38h		20:00
javispedro	seems more usable than the first videos I saw about it though	20:00
javispedro	now all it's missing is a classical task bar in the bottom	20:00
RST38h	no, this Gnome3 thing does look like Maemo5	20:00
javispedro	add a classical task bar in the bottom and remove the useless sidebar and you have a usable system again :)	20:01
DeadDodo	javispedro: No task bars... the designers claim they're against it. All apps are launched by zooming out and dragging them to a desktop.	20:01
javispedro	a usable system that is mostly the same as gnome 2 :D	20:01
RST38h	javis: They seem to assume that an avregae user starts so many applications at once that he needs to SEARCH through them using a text box	20:01
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javispedro	and that "recent documents" needs 25% of my screen state	20:02
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luke-jr	Jaffa: the right direction for GNOME 3 is Qt4	20:02
javispedro	which is something I never used, and the only time I enter that menu is to clear it.	20:02
lbt	:D	20:02
RST38h	luke: Which is now owned by Nokia and not truly FOSS	20:02
luke-jr	RST38h: what?	20:02
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lcuk	and a different language	20:02
luke-jr	lcuk: GNOME has never had a standard language	20:03
lcuk	kde is goin great as it is	20:03
RST38h	javis: Well, at least I do not see The Paperclip in GNOME3	20:03
luke-jr	KDE is getting suckier and suckier	20:03
RST38h	javis: Unless the sucker is hiding somewhere	20:03
javispedro	RST38h: it's right there on the sidebar.	20:03
lcuk	but thats the qt version of gnome	20:03
javispedro	just wait for the slideshow plugin :)	20:03
luke-jr	lcuk: no, KDE has nothing to do with GNOME	20:03
luke-jr	KDE even predates GNOME	20:03
lcuk	ffs they do the same job	20:03
lcuk	you know what i mean	20:04
RST38h	"adly, Compiz and Gnome-Shell dont play nice, however this doesnt mean the end of eye-candy effects as gnome-Shell has slick animations all of its own thanks to Clutter! "	20:04
RST38h	(and what do I do if I have only got the IGD?)	20:04
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javispedro	pray your brain gets used to the slow-mo desktop	20:04
RST38h	or downgrade to XFCE?	20:05
DeadDodo	I feel that the Linux desktop is suffering from a lack of good UI design. Current Gnome is okay, future Gnome looks bad, KDE isn't very good.	20:05
lcuk	or stick with what you have/use an upgraded fork as discussed	20:05
javispedro	you think everytime you change the desktop metaphor you gain new users. I see everytime someone changes the desktop metaphor they lose users.	20:06
lardman	hmm, I now have an app where none of my widgets appear in portrait mode, and all come back for landscape	20:06
javispedro	well, save for Apple. they just put Jobs on a show and Him'll take care of even selling something as .... as the Dock!	20:06
RST38h	lardman: some container is acting wrong?	20:06
RST38h	Apple is different	20:06
lardman	I have and HBox which contains an HBox + a VBox, and I switch a pair of box widgets between those two	20:07
RST38h	Those cultists will applaud even when you give them tactile 3D UI made of cow turds	20:07
lardman	smello-vision	20:07
javispedro	someone ports Ogre -> the N900 can run GTA3	20:08
* javispedro sighs		20:08
lardman	do GTK widgets need to be destroyed or are they ref counted?	20:08
lbt	lardman: some containers take over management	20:09
lardman	e.g. I'm thinking of destroying a VBox and then placing the contents in an HBox on rotation, etc	20:09
RST38h	lardman: only the top one needs ot be	20:09
RST38h	the rest goes with it	20:10
lbt	you may want to move them and then destroy the top box	20:10
lardman	ah, so everything is destoryed underneath	20:10
lardman	ok	20:10
lbt	yes	20:10
Stskeeps	javispedro: ogre was ported to beagleboard, last i read	20:11
javispedro	there's now a port for the n900 in tmo	20:11
igagis	lardman: do you use GTKmm?	20:11
lardman	no	20:11
lardman	I try to avoid C++	20:11
lardman	is that C++?	20:11
igagis	lardman: yes, it's a C++ wrapper of GTK+	20:12
javispedro	yes, GTKmm is C++	20:12
Stskeeps	hmm	20:13
pupnik_	N900 scorched3d would be a challenge	20:13
Stskeeps	i wonder if qole could do Easy Diablo	20:13
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Stskeeps	for running diablo-only apps on n900	20:13
Stskeeps	:P	20:13
javispedro	port diablo to n900!	20:15
Stskeeps	javispedro: it isn't impossible for sure.. :P	20:15
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pupnik_	daimonin	20:16
pupnik_	gets u a nice mmorpg within n900 performance profile	20:16
* RST38h thought javispedro meant the game		20:16
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* javispedro stabs RST for thinking javispedro had joined the ordes of tmo users		20:17
pupnik_	i would like a free dungeon keeper	20:17
pupnik_	defending a dungeon against heroes was fun	20:17
RST38h	Seriously though, Diablo-like UI on top of Angband would rule	20:17
crashanddie__	so what's the new firmware all about?	20:18
lardman	new firmware?	20:18
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pupnik_	RST38h: did you know that the diablo devs were roguelike players? they consciously emulated the concept	20:19
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crashanddie__	lardman, /topic	20:20
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lardman	ah, few days old	20:21
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RST38h	pupnik: Of course I did, it does not take too much to see that :)	20:24
Timpii	RST38h: there's Vulture's Eye and -Claw, but they're for Nethack and Slash'em	20:24
RST38h	pupnik: Of course, making it time-based rather than turn-based spoiled all the fun	20:24
RST38h	Timpii: Ahaaa, thanks, gonna check 'em	20:24
* RST38h can probably live with Nethack based one		20:24
RST38h	Looks like it is based on Falcon's Eye	20:25
lardman	argh, not getting on too well with adding and removing things from boxes	20:25
Timpii	yip, falcon's eye stagnated a bit so they forked it	20:26
RST38h	lardman: it is messy :(	20:26
RST38h	lardman: what is your widget hierarchy right now?	20:26
lardman	it's notebook( hbox( vbox, vbox) )	20:27
RST38h	javispedro, qwerty, pupnik: Take a look at this little gem: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Vulture%27s	20:27
RST38h	Portable?	20:27
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lardman	and I want to make it swap between that and notebook( vbox( vbox, vbox) )	20:27
javispedro	SDL -- should be,	20:27
RST38h	lardman: can you switch to vbox(hbox,hbox) or maybe vbox(hbox(vbox,vbox))?	20:27
javispedro	dunnou about the performance.	20:27
qwerty12	RST38h: You must've "known" me for long enough now to know that Nethack isn't my cup of tea :)	20:28
RST38h	javis: Falcon's was pretty statis, performance show be ok	20:28
RST38h	qwerty: Not really =)	20:28
lardman	RST38h: the two vboxes need to either sit next to one another in landscape or ontop of one another in portrait	20:28
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RST38h	lardman: ok, wrap'em all into another vbox	20:31
pupnik_	i love whoever made the url click in N900 terminal	20:31
RST38h	see what happens	20:31
RST38h	lbt: still here?	20:31
pupnik_	tried porting vuktures eye in 2007 RST38h	20:31
lardman	RST38h: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m42f2fde2	20:31
pupnik_	my project dir had 200 subdirs	20:31
RST38h	pupnik: wow...why?	20:32
konttori	somebody should add anti-alias function to border pixels in http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vultures_eye.png	20:32
pupnik_	thought it might be fun	20:32
konttori	anti-aliased transparency I mean	20:32
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pupnik_	so true	20:32
RST38h	200 dirs though?	20:33
* RST38h salivates over that screenshot		20:33
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RST38h	lardman: Ok, one thing you may want to do is stop bothering with reordering widgets in containers	20:33
lardman	how do you mean?	20:34
RST38h	lardman: just kill the whole tree and recreate it from scratch. In fact, make a single function create_ui(GtkWidget *Parent)	20:34
lardman	I need to keep the child widgets active ideally	20:34
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RST38h	lardman: That kills all parent's children and create them all anew	20:34
lardman	otherwise I need to re-parse data, etc	20:34
RST38h	is that costly?	20:35
lardman	well gst setup cost amongst other things	20:35
lardman	so yeah	20:35
RST38h	hmmm...'cause I do not think anyone can guarantee you what happens when you rearrange existing widges in gtk+	20:35
lardman	I was hoping that just removing the widgets from the HBox\|VBox, and then setting the notepad entry to the new one would do the trick	20:35
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RST38h	ok let us proceed on assumption that it is safe	20:36
RST38h	I do not see you removing hbox	20:37
RST38h	only removing two vboxes	20:37
lardman	yeah I remove two vboxes from what is either an hbox in landscape or a vbox in portrait	20:38
RST38h	oh, here is a possible problem	20:38
RST38h	who is the parent of your hbox and vbox?	20:38
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lardman	either a VBox or an HBox, which is the notepad entry	20:39
RST38h	wait	20:39
lardman	appdata->tab[0]	20:39
RST38h	who is the parent of appdata->tab[0]?	20:39
lardman	a notepad	20:39
_\|Nix\|_	Is the fremantle-extras-devel buildbot building?	20:39
RST38h	All right. So the notepad owns both hbox and vbox at any given time?	20:39
lardman	appdata owns all the entries	20:40
lardman	ah, perhaps I need to tell GTK that?	20:40
_\|Nix\|_	I've been waiting for, like, an hour for some resuts on Pidgin ...	20:40
RST38h	appdata is just a struct, let us forget about it for now	20:40
RST38h	Nix: Somebody murdered it today	20:40
_\|Nix\|_	Great ...	20:40
RST38h	Other people complained	20:40
lardman	ok, so at any one time, one of the H\|VBox which will be contained in appdata->tab[0] is floating and empty	20:41
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lardman	in fact which will be pointed to by appdata->tab[0]	20:41
RST38h	lardman: yea. but I think you need to remove the empty one from the notepad	20:41
RST38h	lardman: so that at any given time, the notepad only contains one widget, either vbox or hbox	20:41
lardman	hmm, I can't just overwrite the pointer and it will be updated?>	20:41
lardman	that code is there at the bottom, but it didn't do anything	20:42
RST38h	I don't think so :)	20:42
_\|Nix\|_	I don't actually need it, if I can figure out why Application Manager seems to ignore packages available from rivial repositories ...	20:42
_\|Nix\|_	trivial, even ...	20:42
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lardman	RST38h: my other thought was for appdata->tab[0] to be a static box, and I can then place my container V\|HBox in it	20:42
RST38h	Nix: care to quote the repo config?	20:42
_\|Nix\|_	I have one at deb http://192.168.1.33 ./ and it doesn't pick up the new version of Pidgin ...	20:42
_\|Nix\|_	... yet apt-get upgrade picks up the updates, and apt-cache policy also sees the newer package.	20:43
RST38h	Repo is probably set up wrongly...But I am not an expert on repos unfortunately :(	20:43
lardman	can I create a GTKBox? It's not just there to be subclassed?	20:43
Macer	what are the pptp ports?	20:43
lbt	RST38h: back now	20:43
Macer	i can't seem to get this damn vpn to connect anymore and don't know why	20:43
Macer	unless tmob has blocked the ports altogether to prevent vpning from a g1	20:44
RST38h	lardman: Ok, the appdata thing is completely bogus	20:44
_\|Nix\|_	RST38h: It's a really simple setup ... a directory full of .deb files plus a Packages file listing them ...	20:44
Stskeeps	Macer: heh, probably	20:44
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RST38h	lardman: it carries no meaning other than let you "freeze" it in the rarely used Nokia's app free process (when it gets out of memory)	20:44
_\|Nix\|_	I'm mystified as to why HAM ignores the updates available therein ...	20:44
Macer	Stskeeps: you busy now? was wondering if you could test teh vpn for me	20:44
Stskeeps	Macer: very slow at getting into new things at this exact moment	20:44
lardman	RST38h: for me appdata is a global which contains all of the data needed by the app	20:44
RST38h	lbt: Will a link to the page with documentation from the Gtk-friendly About box be sufficient?	20:45
RST38h	lbt: In terms of cdocumenting MG and my other apps?	20:45
RST38h	lardman: Exactly	20:45
Macer	damn. ok	20:45
lbt	active link would be great...	20:45
RST38h	lardman: The reason why this data is not just a bunch of global vars is to let Maemo take the whoel appdata and save it to disk, afaik	20:45
lardman	RST38h: so if the fact that the struct holds a pointer to a gtk widget counts towards the ref counting that's fine	20:45
lardman	yeah	20:45
lardman	and to make it neat ;)	20:46
RST38h	lardman: But this has nothing to do with Gtk	20:46
Macer	damn thsi sucks	20:46
lardman	right, so I need to grab a reference	20:46
Macer	is there sshfs for xp? :)	20:46
Macer	since this vpn crap doesn't seem to be working all that well	20:46
RST38h	lardman: In Gtk, your hbox and vbox widgets are both children of another widget	20:46
lardman	Macer: yeah I think there is actually	20:46
Macer	hm. that would work	20:46
RST38h	lardman: So, by looking at your code snippet I see that you keep them both as children	20:47
lardman	Macer: but 3rd party, ping qwerty12_N900	20:47
RST38h	lardman: ANd my guess is that only one of them should be, the one you are currently using	20:47
RST38h	lbt: Then that is how I am going to do it.	20:47
Macer	heh	20:47
Macer	anybody up to test a vpn for me?	20:47
Macer	just to see if it's teh phone.. since that is the only external network i can get on right now	20:47
lardman	RST38h: well I'd like to swap between them, and as only one can contain the data, that's troublesome	20:47
Macer	it will connect locally	20:47
qwerty12_N900	Macer: There's Dokan, which mounts an SFTP server as a 10GB hard drive... Alternatives exist, but they aren't free	20:48
Macer	i don't thihnk i'd have to forward ports for pptp would i?	20:48
lbt	works for me - although a Help button would be better -and you have a spare slot	20:48
lardman	unless I place both in yet another box	20:48
RST38h	lbt: yea, but I may have a few other uses for it ;)	20:48
Macer	qwerty12_N900: can you test a vpn for me? :)	20:48
RST38h	In fact, I have got a plenty of spare slots now, check the latest versions	20:48
qwerty12_N900	Macer: Sorry, I don't have OpenVPN set up	20:48
Macer	doh	20:48
Macer	i need someoen with an xp box	20:48
qwerty12_N900	(Or installed, even)	20:48
lbt	Good - it was looking ..... full	20:48
Macer	i'm doing this in xp ;)	20:48
Macer	i just need to make sure someone can connect to the vpn	20:49
Macer	it was working before. i don't know wha thappened	20:49
RST38h	lardman: You won't be losing any data, as these boxes do not have to be destroyed, just disconnected from their current parent	20:49
Macer	i'm guessing a tmobile thing	20:49
Macer	i used to be able to tether and connect to it	20:49
lardman	RST38h: that's what I thought I was doing?	20:49
RST38h	lardman: right now, you are not switching vbox and hbox, just moving stuff from one to another	20:49
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RST38h	lardman: which make sme conclude both hbox and vbox are children of the notebook	20:50
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lardman	swapping and altering the appdata->tab[0]	20:50
RST38h	altering tab[0] does not do a thing, remember, that is YOUR OWN struct :)	20:50
lardman	so that it just points to one of them	20:50
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lardman	ah crap	20:50
lardman	of course	20:50
lardman	though.....	20:50
lardman	no	20:51
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doc\|home	anyone know if it's possible to have the n900 set up as a wireless AP?	20:53
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doc\|home	would be nice to have an ipod touch, for example, connect to the internet via the n900	20:53
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wao	well, it should work	20:54
RST38h	why even use an ipod touch?	20:54
wao	but how..	20:54
doc\|home	RST38h: some apps on the ipod that aren't on the n900	20:54
RST38h	and you are willing to carry two gadgets that do the same thing a bit differently?	20:55
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qwerty12_N900	Well, one of 'em can phone...	20:56
RST38h	...and play video without reencoding...	20:56
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RST38h	...and has a keyboard...	20:56
RST38h	...and a decent resolution display...	20:56
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qwerty12_N900	Let me guess: You're not talking about the iPod Touch?	20:57
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Macer	welp	20:57
* RST38h cackles		20:57
Macer	let me try otu this dokan crap :)	20:57
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doc\|home	RST38h: yes	20:58
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_\|Nix\|_	I had to turn on red-pill-mode and turn off "Ignore Packages From Wrong Domains" to see updates from that repo.	20:58
RST38h	So, no more repositories outside of maemo.org???	21:01
javispedro	that was in diablo too.	21:01
javispedro	see file /etc/hildon-application-manager-domains/	21:02
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lardman	RST38h: ah, working	21:03
lardman	RST38h: and was before I posted the code too, I was just confused by the left-overs on my gst output window not being updated	21:04
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lardman	doh!	21:04
lardman	RST38h: but thanks for the help	21:04
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mza	Will the calendar support iCal invites?	21:05
mza	the SDK says unknown calendar file	21:05
mza	when opening the attachment from mail	21:05
Jaffa	Now krisse's chiming in on the "MWN encroaches on our territory" meme. I'm resisting saying "perhaps if you weren't saying all the same thing and actually did the work I'm suggesting, I wouldn't need to suggest it".	21:06
RST38h	lardman: eh!	21:06
RST38h	Jaffa: He has got a territory?	21:06
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: allaboutmaemo	21:07
Jaffa	s/He/She/?	21:07
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javispedro	but isn't the idea of MWN more "lower level" than _any_ maemo fansite?	21:07
RST38h	Jaffa: I have never seen Krisse IRL, still assuming He	21:07
RST38h	The name looked male, although who am I to guess Finnish names?	21:08
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ShadowJK	what's mwn?	21:08
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RST38h	Jaffa's proposed news site	21:09
ShadowJK	RST38h, "Krisse" sounds a bit unigender to me	21:09
ShadowJK	but i'd probably assume female	21:09
RST38h	ShadowJK: there is a real name, a moment	21:09
ShadowJK	krisse can be a real name too :-)	21:09
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RST38h	yea	21:10
RST38h	But it is ...what do you call it? a short abbreviation of a full name, isn't it?	21:10
lardman	is there an easy way to get a gtk widget such as a drawing_area to redraw itself?	21:10
ShadowJK	RST38h, something like that	21:10
qwerty12_N900	Krisse Juorunen	21:10
RST38h	_update()?	21:11
derf	Easier than what?	21:11
RST38h	qwerty: yea!	21:11
qwerty12_N900	In related news, I should be recieving my cyberstalking license soon	21:11
lardman	ah gdk_window_invalidate_rect()	21:11
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RST38h	qwerty: No until you start guessing people postal addresses by their nicks!	21:12
* ShadowJK wonders if that name is real		21:12
derf	lardman: gtk_widget_queue_draw().	21:12
lardman	ah, cool, thanks	21:12
qwerty12_N900	ShadowJK: It sounds Finnish enough =)	21:12
* qwerty12_N900 hides		21:12
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ShadowJK	Yes, but morphing normal words into names is easy in finnish :)	21:13
Macer	blah. this is starting to drive me nuts	21:14
Macer	can anybody here try to connect to a vpn for me?	21:15
Macer	it seems to connect and tries to verify the username/pw then loses it :(	21:15
Macer	going to have to do something drastic	21:16
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RST38h	like....stop trying to run it? =)	21:16
lcuk	does anyone know how i would save a sequence of yuv frames (in memory) into an avi perhaps using compression	21:16
lcuk	can gstreamer cope with this kind of thing?	21:17
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luke-jr	lcuk: I have a script for that	21:19
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lcuk	luke-jr, mind digging it out?	21:20
sijk	Jaffa: Krisse is a Finnish female name, either real name or nick name for Kristiina	21:20
RST38h	Ahha!	21:20
RST38h	So, assuming Kristie from now on	21:21
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luke-jr	lcuk: \| yuvtoppm ... \| ppmtoy4m ... \| mpeg2enc ...	21:22
luke-jr	lcuk: tweak as desired	21:22
RST38h	And, btw, mpeg is lossy	21:23
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crashanddie	Jaffa, http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8630/jaffaeatinganddrinkingg.jpg	21:23
* lcuk ponders a way to redirect live yuv screen out to a stream and running thos		21:23
lcuk	RST38h, dont really care	21:23
lcuk	thanks luke-jr	21:24
RST38h	crashanddie: Notice the characteristic red eyes	21:24
luke-jr	lcuk: for AVI, I just feed a PNG format into ffmpeg	21:24
RST38h	crashanddie: He is definitely looking for the next victim	21:24
crashanddie	Jaffa, I really don't want to trouble you, but that's not retouched, and with the red eyes, and the glowing drink, you could be in Merlin	21:24
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crashanddie	RST38h, or maybe he was looking at one of the nokia chicks, or waitresses, or community chicks	21:25
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crashanddie	cuz damn, the selection was fine	21:25
lcuk	luke-jr, compressing a new png image every frame takes > 0.5seconds	21:25
lcuk	i wanted realtime or nearly recording	21:25
lcuk	so flat yuv is simplest	21:26
RST38h	crash; Does their blood taste any different?	21:26
lcuk	crashanddie, you lie	21:26
luke-jr	lcuk: ffmpeg might take it	21:26
crashanddie	lcuk, I do?	21:26
lcuk	it was you that were eying them up	21:26
crashanddie	lcuk, no, I got phone numbers, different thing	21:26
luke-jr	lcuk: ffmpeg lists yuv4mpeg pipe format	21:26
crashanddie	And I had dinner with the waitress the other night	21:26
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crashanddie	well, if kebab after hours is considered as dinner	21:27
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: so, http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/164/ is up	21:27
lcuk	lol	21:27
lcuk	luke-jr, cool ill have a dig see if i can push out frames	21:27
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: hey :D	21:28
Stskeeps	evening PaulFertser	21:29
Stskeeps	how is it going?	21:29
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i came back with good news, not useless talks as usual :)	21:29
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: got Debian working after solving few issues.	21:29
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Stskeeps	cool	21:29
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i hope you had a nice weekend too :)	21:29
Stskeeps	what was the issue?	21:29
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: really, when i argue it's not to offend or something, i really appreciate the work all you honest guys do :D	21:30
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: yeah yeah, let's stick to the technical stuff :)	21:30
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: the first and main issue is initramfs compatibility with 2.6.30 kernel. Major number for mmcblk0 was changed, which obviously produced strange and unexpected problems due to static device nodes in initramfs.	21:31
Stskeeps	right, we normally call it initfs	21:31
Stskeeps	and yes, that'd do some problems	21:31
luke-jr	PaulFertser: should have been expected	21:32
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luke-jr	nothing newsworthy there	21:32
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: very dire problems i'd say since it's kind of hard to debug without any good feedback whatsoever, i needed to compile a kernel with a framebuffer.	21:32
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luke-jr	PaulFertser: you should be compiling your kernel w/ a fb anyway :P	21:32
luke-jr	PaulFertser: the evdev stuff changed too IIRC	21:33
luke-jr	so I bet you couldn't use arrow keys there	21:33
PaulFertser	luke-jr: hm, i hoped that the recent initfs is supposed to be compatible with the latest kernels. And yes, keys do not work but i didn't bother, just waited for timeout.	21:33
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: the good news is that initfs can be skipped.	21:33
Stskeeps	or modified.	21:34
luke-jr	PaulFertser: sure, depending on what you mean by "recent"	21:34
luke-jr	lp:~luke-jr/+junk/n8x0-bootmenu-autodetect-evdev <-- branch of bootmenu that fixes the keyboard issue	21:34
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: when i skipped initfs, i got the device powered off in a minute, so special care should be taken to start all those caring daemons.	21:34
luke-jr	lp:~luke-jr/+junk/n8x0-bootmenu-kexec <-- bootmenu w/ kexec support (untested)	21:34
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Stskeeps	PaulFertser: YES	21:34
Stskeeps	err, yes	21:34
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Stskeeps	luke-jr: and why didn't you submit those patches? :P	21:35
luke-jr	Stskeeps: I pushed them to LP and told someone on IRC	21:35
luke-jr	that's how I submit stuff	21:35
luke-jr	<.<	21:35
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: another problem is that initfs assumes that initramfs is mounted rw which wasn't true for my kernel.	21:35
timeless_mbp	PaulFertser: isn't that more of a mistake in your kernel?	21:35
luke-jr	PaulFertser: err, initramfs is usually read-only	21:35
luke-jr	IIRC, most of the time it's squashfs	21:36
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: other minor issues with debian included a segfaulting plugin in ts.conf, slightly wrong xorg.conf i copied from somewhere, missing pointercal, stuff like that.	21:36
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: yeah, that initfs is mounted rw? that's new	21:36
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pupnik_	we should do some security auditing	21:36
PaulFertser	timeless_mbp: i assume, no. It's common to mount root ro by default. And on n810 it's not actually initramfs, rather a NAND partition with jffs2 on it.	21:36
luke-jr	PaulFertser: I suggest you read over our Gentoo stuff	21:36
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* timeless_mbp frowns		21:37
timeless_mbp	i'm thirsty, but i'm not sure i'm hungry enough to get dinner	21:37
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: there's some "cp /mnt/new_root/linuxrc /tmp/linuxrc" which didn't work with initfs mounted ro.	21:37
konttori	nice, I just saw cali reviewing n900 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3z8YCzb0vI	21:37
timeless_mbp	but i have to decide _now_	21:37
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: ah, no, but /tmp is a tmpfs	21:37
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luke-jr	PaulFertser: /tmp is tmpfs	21:37
PaulFertser	luke-jr: thanks for the suggestion	21:37
luke-jr	!	21:37
luke-jr	why is slonopotamus.org down :(	21:38
PaulFertser	luke-jr: well, that means it's probably in error either in my kernel (compiled without tmpfs) or lack of /etc/fstab on initfs for whatever reason or something like that. Anyway i do not see a reason to copy linuxrc from new_root anywhere, i think it can be started from there as well.	21:38
luke-jr	PaulFertser: I don't think initfs uses fstab	21:39
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PaulFertser	luke-jr: i wasn't in the mood to investigate that thouroughly given i lack serial console anyway. I just modified the script to exec /mnt/new_root/linuxrc, it worked "like a charm".	21:39
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PaulFertser	luke-jr: (branch with evdev fixes) thanks. As a sidenote i do not understand why anyone might want to use bazaar when there's git and mercurial ;)	21:42
luke-jr	PaulFertser: Bazaar is easier, since it fits with the historical RCS syntax for commands	21:43
luke-jr	also, git's support for subversion repositories is crap	21:43
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yigal	hello	21:44
crashanddie	git needs proper windows integration	21:44
PaulFertser	luke-jr: i tried git-svn and liked it tbh. And in bazaar it's not obvious how to do something like "git format-patch" to send a plain-text readable e-mail etc. Git seems to be so much more flexible, you can use it any way you like.	21:44
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: so, what is not working in your kernel snapshot?	21:44
yigal	you guys probably already saw this, this is rediculous, http://maemoproject.com/	21:45
luke-jr	crashanddie: who uses Windows?	21:45
crashanddie	and git needs a web-based management system allowing the setup of new repos, that are available directly online	21:45
crashanddie	luke-jr, my whole company?	21:45
lcuk	yigal, perfectly normal day i nthe life of the n900	21:45
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i'll know soon. For today my task was to start debian and now my friend is going to have some struggles on his own.	21:45
luke-jr	PaulFertser: git assumes you just want to import from subversion	21:45
lcuk	it generates it own stuff all the time	21:45
RST38h	yigal: Yes, we saw it. There are 250+ varieties of mushrooms in the Finland forests.	21:45
yigal	:)	21:45
luke-jr	PaulFertser: bzr diff <-- outputs a patch	21:45
PaulFertser	luke-jr: no, git-svn allows for comfortable two-way communication with svn. I used it myself.	21:46
ali1234	luke-jr: git diff <- outputs a patch	21:46
ali1234	that isn't quite the same thing as format-patch, which outputs a patch series, or git send-email which sends it to your favourite mailing list for reviewal	21:47
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crashanddie	probably one of the best slashdot comments ever: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3291&cid=1395315	21:47
PaulFertser	luke-jr: yes, but what if you want to send an e-mail that has description, commit message and patch and is directly applicable with "git am"? I tried to do the same with bazaar but couldn't find a way, somewhere it's written that it's not desired function.	21:47
luke-jr	PaulFertser: bzr-svn is completely transparent; you almost never notice the other end is Subversion	21:47
PaulFertser	luke-jr: same with git-svn i think	21:47
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luke-jr	PaulFertser: it's not desired, as such a method inherently loses a lot of info	21:47
* Stskeeps ponders idly that most people favour turning maemo.org into a non-profit foundation/company on http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/open_source_software_distributed_via_store-ovi-com/		21:47
Chani	:/	21:48
ali1234	luke-jr: with git it does not lose any info, because the patch files it outputs retain all the commit data	21:48
luke-jr	PaulFertser: better to send a repo to merge	21:48
Chani	don't leave your n900 charging overnight. this is hte second time I've gone to sleep with it nearly done charging, and woken up with it totally dead and refusing to charge	21:48
PaulFertser	luke-jr: yet in the "git world" this method works quite good, especially with the mailing lists.	21:48
luke-jr	ali1234: it doesn't	21:48
ali1234	luke-jr: what information does it lose?	21:48
luke-jr	ali1234: merge information?	21:48
ali1234	luke-jr: no, it doesn't	21:49
luke-jr	anyhow, git and bzr are both nice	21:49
luke-jr	git just has a learning curve, whereas bzr is more user friendly	21:49
ali1234	i will agree with that	21:49
ali1234	i didn't like git until about 3 months after i started using it	21:49
ali1234	then it clicked	21:49
RST38h	Chani: Never happened here	21:50
luke-jr	I'm disappointed that not even git supports proper cherry picking	21:50
ali1234	anyway, when you merge on git, you get a commit merge, unless there was no merge conflicts. that commit will appear in an exported patch series, preserving the merge info	21:50
ali1234	and, git cherry-pick has always worked fine for me	21:51
luke-jr	ali1234: when I had to cherry-pick with git, it didn't act like it saved ANY metainformation, except a revision ID in the log message	21:52
luke-jr	I can only imagine if I did merging now it would have issues	21:52
PaulFertser	So it seems bazaar wants to impose its understanding of the "best practicies" on you while git gives you complete freedom and transparency of operations.	21:52
* javispedro ponders why "Fixing Ovi" is not a solution in that brainstorm item.		21:52
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luke-jr	PaulFertser: I use bzr-svn on a regular basis with my work	21:52
RST38h	Mhm. Poor krisse is really pissed now...	21:53
Chani	I do wish git would automatically record what branch something came from	21:53
PaulFertser	luke-jr: so did i with git-svn ;)	21:53
Stskeeps	javispedro: suggest it?	21:53
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: Oh noez! Will she storm off again?!	21:53
RST38h	What have you done to krisse, you elitist technopigs?!?	21:53
ShadowJK	Chani, it will just have to deal with it, i doubt n900 would last much beyond breakfast for me if it wasn't on charger during night	21:53
ali1234	Chani: the hash records that info: from the hash you can see where it came from with git show <hash>	21:53
* RST38h ponders on the proper translation for the word "ozalupit'"		21:54
Proteous	damp dragon	21:54
Chani	ali1234: really? hmm, i've dcommitted everything now so I can't check	21:54
ali1234	the only thing that really screws up the history is git rebase	21:55
Chani	git show on a git-svn commit just shows the log and the diff.	21:55
javispedro	Stskeeps: I will but then I will vote it down :)	21:56
* Chani yawns		21:56
* JosefAssad wonders how massive any maemo foundation liability coverage would be		21:56
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: is it considered important for Mer to fully support 2.6.30 kernel?	21:57
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: getting newer kernels is a plus for all inhabitations of the ecosystem.	21:57
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: it's obvious	21:57
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: but is it one of the "immediate targets"?	21:57
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: yes, i hate being stuck at this kernel version	21:58
luke-jr	Stskeeps: how goes gpsdriver code? :p	21:58
Stskeeps	luke-jr: ask me in december	21:58
luke-jr	ok	21:58
Stskeeps	right now we're not going to 2.6.30 cos some things are broken and i'm not sure WLAN driver supports PSM	21:58
Jaffa	crashanddie: I AM MEEEERRLIN. Stskeeps should bow before me.	21:58
Stskeeps	which is essential	21:58
crashanddie	Jaffa, i'd say we're starting to have some pretty compelling evidence that you're not human	22:00
crashanddie	http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4001322448/	22:00
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Jaffa	crashanddie: sub-human sounds about right.	22:00
crashanddie	bowing, transfer of scrolls, targeting unsuspecting victims, drinking liquid gold...	22:00
RST38h	un-human is the correct specification	22:00
RST38h	as in enemy to everything humans stand for =)	22:00
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: yep, the the power consumption that n810 shows with the stock kernel and maemo is just unbelievably impressive.	22:01
RST38h	you and the General, two enemies of the humankind...	22:01
pupnik_	:) PaulFertser you have comparisons?	22:02
alterego	qwerty12_N900: you about?	22:02
qwerty12_N900	alterego: yessir	22:02
PaulFertser	pupnik_: all other devices i know use suspend2ram, so it's not directly comparable with zero-clock and extensive PSM support all over the place in n810.	22:02
alterego	Do you need to do antything to let me be the maintainer of the ruby stuff?@	22:03
qwerty12_N900	alterego: I'd have thought a change of the name would be enough?	22:03
alterego	Maybe this stuff takes time.	22:03
alterego	No, there's someting in the promotion interface that keeps it.	22:03
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alterego	I might ask whoever to clear ruby from all the repos so I can upload the stuff from scratch.	22:04
crashanddie	how about we don't put ruby in the repos?	22:06
crashanddie	Just delete it and blacklist it	22:06
alterego	Why?	22:06
alterego	What would that acheive?	22:06
crashanddie	NO RUBY	22:06
crashanddie	erhm	22:06
alterego	m'hmm	22:06
crashanddie	I just found my fake police ID card	22:06
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qwerty12_N900	crashanddie: From your stripping days? :p	22:06
crashanddie	qwerty12_N900, not really	22:07
crashanddie	qwerty12_N900, from working with the police (i won't say which one), for their smartcards	22:07
qwerty12_N900	Hehe	22:07
crashanddie	we had to do some tests, so we quickly designed some layout for the cards, took pictures, added info and printed	22:07
crashanddie	thing is, the layout is like 90% the same as what they're using now	22:07
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: wouldn't it be nice to have all the necessary daemons started from rootfs rather than from initfs? And also i'm afraid some of them are compiled for OABI.	22:08
crashanddie	I don't have the nice shiny 3d film on the card, nor the certificates, but still	22:08
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: nah, they're not	22:08
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Stskeeps	PaulFertser: but they're built for uclibc	22:10
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i think i saw some error about OABI during boot of initfs so i enabled OABI_COMPAT, i think i can run readelf on all initfs binaries when i get access to the device again.	22:11
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Stskeeps	it's always good to support oabi i guess	22:11
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: why?	22:12
Ceron^	http://naurunappula.com/520667	22:12
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: to run obsolete binary-only stuff? i'm not going into this discussion again ;)	22:12
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: i think error may be from uclibc built with oabi support? dunno	22:13
alterego	grrr :(	22:13
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i think always requiring initfs to start daemons is not exactly common way anyway and might be confusing for the newcomers.	22:15
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: you need tricks on these devices.	22:15
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i think if you run the daemons early in the boot process when you start /sbin/init directly it'd be still ok.	22:16
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: that's what some do, yeah	22:16
Stskeeps	like a init=/linuxrc or something	22:17
pupnik_	the internet is just getting crippled right now	22:19
pupnik_	dude made a fielf	22:20
pupnik_	dude made a field-of-view patch for bioshock. they apparently got it removed from the net?	22:21
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: (/linuxrc) it's still too hackish imho, i think many embedded platforms run without additional scripts.	22:21
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Stskeeps	PaulFertser: yes, but n8x0 isn't a typical one. either way, your port, your choice	22:22
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i can't see what makes n8x0 that different from others. Most devices are equipped with a watchdog of some kind and require initialisation of other devices on boot.	22:23
PaulFertser	Can anyone please tell me how is internal SD card connected on n810? I'm wondering what kernel option should i enable for it to work.	22:26
alterego	Anyone here ever had to become a maintainer of a package that already had a maintainer in the maemo5 extras promotional interface?	22:27
alterego	I'm clicking on the "become maintainer" link but nothing seems to happen after I follow that process.	22:27
javispedro	oh, it worked for me a few weeks ago :P	22:27
alterego	javispedro: did the process take any time?	22:27
alterego	Or was it instantaneous?	22:28
RST38h	alterego: why not add your name to the maintainers line inside the package itself?	22:28
javispedro	instantaneous and without confirmation :P	22:28
alterego	RST38h: already done	22:28
RST38h	won't that make maemo.org guess you as the second maintainer?	22:28
javispedro	my guess is that everything is dead	22:28
javispedro	wasn't the autobuilder broken a few hours ago?	22:28
RST38h	yep	22:28
qwerty12_N900	We need you, Niels!	22:28
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: as mmc.. :P	22:28
javispedro	yeah, he's out for a few weeks and everything break.	22:29
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: omap-mmc? That's for external.	22:29
RST38h	That is not normal btw. X-Fade leaves for vacation and hell breaks loose	22:29
alterego	He's been gone ages :(	22:29
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javispedro	qwerty12 already owns the N901!	22:34
javispedro	you should configure your client to use N910 or N920 instead of N901	22:34
javispedro	this way you'll bring panic to the masses every time :)	22:34
qwerty12_N900	"N666" =)	22:34
javispedro	EvilQwerty_N666	22:35
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ali1234	PaulFertser: on n800 both the mmc slots are running off mmci-omap	22:39
PaulFertser	ali1234: i see, thanks a lot	22:40
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ali1234	that's the /sys platform driver name	22:40
ali1234	it does appear to be the same thing as omap-mmc	22:42
PaulFertser	ali1234: i understand	22:42
PaulFertser	ali1234: now i read the code and i see it's multi-slot driver, with 2 slots specified for n800/n810.	22:42
PaulFertser	ali1234: thanks again :)	22:42
RST38h	Isn't N901 an ASUS? =)	22:47
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luke-jr	RST38h: IIRC that's M900	22:52
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KMFDM	this is incredibly annoying. i flashed my device but as the -devel and -testing repos refuse to work I can't re-add a lot of apps	22:54
KMFDM	I guess i'm going to manually download the debs and install that way	22:54
lbt	so KMFDM what's up with the repos?	22:54
KMFDM	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/freemantle/free/binary-armel/Packages 404 not found [ip: 92.122.188.49 80]	22:56
KMFDM	i get the same thing for non-free and on extras-testing free and non-free	22:57
qwerty12_N900	KMFDM: fremantle; not freemantle	22:57
lcuk	speaking of freemantl, Stskeeps what happened to it lol	22:57
lcuk	freemantle	22:57
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timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N900: so um	23:00
timeless_mbp	zenity showed me something	23:00
timeless_mbp	but the theming was odd	23:00
timeless_mbp	do i need something magical to get standard theming?	23:00
qwerty12_N900	root?	23:00
timeless_mbp	yeah i'm root	23:00
qwerty12_N900	run-standalone.sh zenity	23:00
crashanddie	oh ffs	23:01
crashanddie	landlord is in living room, and iplayer is down	23:01
crashanddie	can't watch top gear :(	23:02
qwerty12_N900	crashanddie: Join me in grabbing it off a torrent later	23:02
crashanddie	http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/watchlive/	23:02
crashanddie	w00t	23:02
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GeneralAntilles	Hey, who's surprised, rcadden is being silly.	23:17
GeneralAntilles	Oh, screw krisse.	23:18
GeneralAntilles	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=386138	23:18
RST38h	http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=149 <=== Symbian/S60 people brought their "goodies" to Harmatan	23:21
RST38h	Be afraid. Be very afraid.	23:21
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javispedro	I am afraid already...	23:21
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javispedro	Thank god, m6 devices will use a capacitive screen so deciding will be easy.	23:21
RST38h	every time I see that class diagram, I get really afraid	23:22
Stskeeps	and what's amatter with MVC? :P	23:22
RST38h	overengeneered to hell	23:23
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g3r0n1m0	Hi, I need to know my n770 identification number, I've remove the back cap, the battery an the label that is supossed to give the ID is not present	23:31
g3r0n1m0	how can I get my device WLAN Identification number?	23:31
microlith	you want the mac address?	23:31
g3r0n1m0	no no, I need the identification number in order to upgrade my OS.	23:32
sp3000	I suspect those have always been shown in settings -> about	23:32
g3r0n1m0	nokia site is requesting it	23:32
ali1234	it's on the sticker under the battery	23:32
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javispedro	yeah, he wants the MAC address	23:32
ali1234	no, on n900 mac is not used	23:33
ali1234	oh wait	23:33
g3r0n1m0	there's no sticker	23:33
ali1234	n770	23:33
javispedro	g3r0n1m0, read http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php	23:33
g3r0n1m0	<sp3000>The only thing I can get there is the mac	23:33
javispedro	that's what you want.	23:34
zs	there is no such thing like n770	23:34
sp3000	there is only zuul	23:35
g3r0n1m0	<javispedro>gracias	23:35
sp3000	s/zuul/xul/	23:35
infobot	sp3000 meant: there is only xul	23:35
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GeneralAntilles	When people are pulling out John Swift, you know there's been a communication issue.	23:35
lbt	hmm dropbear doesn't force a root passwd change	23:36
SpeedEvil	Is tere a default ssh password?	23:36
lbt	rootme	23:36
SpeedEvil	(wrt the iphone virus)	23:36
javispedro	account is disabled though	23:36
lbt	indeed	23:36
lbt	nope	23:36
SpeedEvil	I mean - taking into account the iphone virus	23:36
javispedro	even it has to be checked if dropbear cares about it	23:36
javispedro	openssh does	23:37
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lbt	I could have bypassed something I guess	23:37
lbt	since I did a restore settings from a backup	23:37
javispedro	I might believe dropbear not caring about disabled accounts,	23:37
ali1234	i installed dropbear on n800 a couple of hours ago and no password prompt either	23:37
javispedro	but at least on n810 root account has ! as first char in passwd entry	23:37
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timeless_mbp	ok	23:39
javispedro	so theoretically no password will ever match.	23:39
qwerty12_N900	Unless you're in RD-Mode :)	23:39
timeless_mbp	anyone want to be my debian build script friend?	23:39
* GeneralAntilles takes a second swing at the bugzilla insanity.		23:40
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timeless_mbp	?	23:40
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, krisse pulled out John Swift for my 95% quote.	23:41
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lbt	hmm, it also truncates the password at 8 chars	23:42
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timeless_mbp	it==?	23:43
timeless_mbp	probably requires an upgrade	23:43
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timeless_mbp	iirc a newer bugzilla supports non whichever limited passwords	23:43
lbt	I just flashed the retail fiasco	23:43
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javispedro	probably not using shadow then	23:43
lbt	and typing 'passwd' at the prompt says 5-8 chars	23:43
luke-jr	has anyone here ever heard of John Connor?	23:43
lbt	no, not using shadow	23:44
* javispedro would never use password login in n8x0		23:44
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paroneayea	hello all	23:50
paroneayea	so, n900 is awesome	23:50
SpeedEvil	paroneayea: no, it sucks.	23:50
SpeedEvil	get an iphone.	23:50
paroneayea	SpeedEvil: :P	23:50
GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, NYC/Chicago?	23:51
doc\|home	what's an n900?	23:51
paroneayea	GeneralAntilles: yeah, picked mine up here in chicago	23:51
javispedro	android is so much better.	23:51
paroneayea	yesterday	23:51
* SpeedEvil cannot comment about its awesomeness, not having had one delivered yet.		23:51
GeneralAntilles	doc\|home, I think it's an Android something or other.	23:51
* SpeedEvil looks at nokia.co.uk, and clicks refresh		23:51
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doc\|home	GeneralAntilles: oh? lame	23:51
GeneralAntilles	doc\|home, or maybe the new iPhone.	23:51
doc\|home	lamer	23:51
javispedro	iphone? no android!	23:51
javispedro	dealbreaker!	23:51
paroneayea	I'm trying to figure out what kind of data/power cable this is so I can get extras.	23:51
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, or maybe it's Apple switching to Android.	23:51
* doc\|home stabs canadian telcos		23:51
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GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, yes, indeed, it's a pretty kickin' device.	23:52
GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, microUSB.	23:52
paroneayea	thus far anyway, it seems as hackable as advertised	23:52
paroneayea	GeneralAntilles: excellent, thanks :)	23:52
GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, Amazon sells official cables for all of about $0.60.	23:52
GeneralAntilles	parasight, the AC-10U power adapter is, unfortunately, still a bit pricey (~$17).	23:52
paroneayea	GeneralAntilles: haha, great, thanks. nokia sells them for about.. 60	23:52
SpeedEvil	paroneayea: impressions so far? What sort of user are you?	23:52
paroneayea	dollars :P	23:52
paroneayea	SpeedEvil: well I'm a programmer	23:53
GeneralAntilles	But I picked up 4 microUSB cables for all of about $9 with shipping.	23:53
paroneayea	so I've barely gotten time to hack it yet but	23:53
paroneayea	it wasn't hard to get root access on the thing	23:53
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GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, the first really open mainstream phone. ;)	23:53
paroneayea	and installing python was as easy as apt-get install python	23:53
paroneayea	GeneralAntilles: indeed, I got two, one for myself and my wife	23:53
paroneayea	who is a non-hacker	23:53
paroneayea	and we are both extremely pleased.	23:53
paroneayea	the ui is much slicker than the videos even show I think. It is really gorgeous and shows off what can be done w/ technology that's pretty close to what on a free software desktop	23:54
paroneayea	unlike a terrible android self-contained universe :)	23:54
GeneralAntilles	Hooray for not running a Java VM!	23:55
paroneayea	yeah no shit	23:55
paroneayea	overall it's exceeded expectations in all ways thus far	23:55
paroneayea	and my expectations were pretty high	23:55
paroneayea	the main issue I'm having now is that it doesn't have an alt key	23:55
GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, plus Nokia has vaguely open governance, a public bugzilla and a history of supporting open source.	23:55
paroneayea	which sounds silly but I plan to port emacs to it :)	23:55
Stskeeps	qemacs is already there..	23:55
Stskeeps	i think	23:55
paroneayea	really? hm	23:56
GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, um, consider subscribing to maemo-developers.	23:56
GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, and emacs has been ported to Maemo since version 1.	23:56
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_mailing_lists	23:56
paroneayea	GeneralAntilles: oh neat	23:56
GeneralAntilles	qole is working on getting key rebindings working properly.	23:56
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paroneayea	yes I guess I should	23:56
paroneayea	that's awesome	23:56
GeneralAntilles	I'd like to add tab and pipe myself.	23:56
GeneralAntilles	I think there's some HAL silliness involved.	23:56
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GeneralAntilles	As the stuff that worked on Maemo 4 isn't working now.	23:57
GeneralAntilles	(xmodmap, etc.)	23:57
sp3000	I can't let you have the pipe, Dave.	23:57
GeneralAntilles	(sound of heavy breathing)	23:57
paroneayea	I was thinking of seeing if I could map function+one of the arrow keys to alt	23:57
paroneayea	those don't seem to be mapped to anything	23:57
paroneayea	and maybe function + one of the others to pipe	23:58
GeneralAntilles	No, fn on the arrow keys, backspace and return is free.	23:58
GeneralAntilles	Shift-Fn is free on everything.	23:58
javispedro	save for the internal layouts. dammit!	23:58
paroneayea	aha	23:58
GeneralAntilles	paroneayea, two goodies:	23:58
javispedro	s/internal/international	23:58
GeneralAntilles	ctrl-shift-x opens the XTerm from anywhere.	23:58
GeneralAntilles	and ctrl-shift-p takes a screenshot.	23:58
paroneayea	noted!	23:58
paroneayea	thanks :)	23:58

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