IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-11-22

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Stskeepscos that probably determines if it's you or someone else taking care of that :P00:01
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GeneralAntillesOpenIsmus00:03
qwerty12_N810I thought he worked in a chocolate factory?00:04
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zgoldWhat is the preferred way to play through g-streamer on the commadn line in maemo 5?00:05
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Chani:/ I have horrible luck with n-series and chargers00:06
Chanimy n900 is having trouble charging now00:06
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ChaniI finally got it to turn on, but it says that battery is low00:06
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andre_Stskeeps, I'm employed00:06
andre_qwerty12_N810, sssh, don't tell them about all my other jobs!00:06
mikhasChani, do you recharge via USB?00:07
Chanimikhas: yes00:07
qwerty12_N810andre_: Ohh, right. Sorry!00:07
crashanddieJaffa, MoSCoW?00:07
mikhaswell, you might want to try via power outlet00:07
Chaniaha! got it this tim,,, but it'll probably stop again in a minute00:07
mikhasit could be that your USB port is not providing enough power for a recharge00:07
Chanimikhas: don't have one of those chargers00:07
andre_qwerty12_N810, and never ever mention my microsoft position. you know those open source facists...00:08
Chaniall I have is the usb cable00:08
mikhasok, try other USB ports then00:08
Chanimikhas: also, it worked fine for the last week00:08
mikhasand check your BIOS whether you ramp up power supply00:08
mikhashmph00:08
mikhas<= out of ideas then00:08
Chanijust this morning I woke up and it was frozen, thinking it was still charging...00:08
andre_Chani, how did you get the device if you don't have a normal non-usb charger? :)00:08
Chaniandre_: from a teacher. he had two devices and only one wall charger00:08
andre_Chani, tried removing the battery and wait for a day?00:09
andre_ah i see00:09
* andre_ wonders whether his idea makes sense at all00:09
mikhas1. go to your teacher's house 2. steal the wall charger00:09
sp3000(if it's attached to a wall, take the wall too, it may come in handy)00:09
ChaniI have problems with my n810 too, I have to jiggle the cable a lot to get it to charge, then if I touch it again it might stop00:09
andre_that list is missing to take the food from the fridge00:09
Chanihehehe00:09
* GeneralAntilles puts andre_ on a stake.00:09
mikhasit's an open-ended list =)00:10
qwerty12_N8101. Download porn 2. Threaten to put it on teacher's account if he does not give the charger00:10
Chaniaargh, it stopped charging when I put it down again00:10
StskeepsChani: typical issue with that charger plug00:10
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* sp3000 typically loses with cables before plugs00:11
* Chani jiggles the cable again00:11
andre_qwerty12_N810, if you could elaborate the first step via /prvmsg - tried so many times and never found it in this internet thingy00:11
Chani*sigh* it works when I'm touching the cable...00:11
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qwerty12_N810andre_: Well, it all starts with Lemonparty...00:12
andre_Chani, yeah, sometimes technical stuff behaves like women. just be friendly to them and show some love.00:12
GeneralAntillesOoh, sweet, HP's got a thin client with that 1.2GHz Marvell.00:14
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luke-jrO.o00:15
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SpeedEvil I now have a sort-of-prototype application - well - at least the outline of one - for a barcode based inventory thing for my desktop. (possible to later port to the phone). I want to integrate a kitchen scale to this. Is there any project anyone can point me at to read 7 segment displays?00:16
luke-jr...00:17
SpeedEvil(I know there are USB scales, however I don't have one)00:17
crashanddieanyone know what Jaffa meant by "MoSCoW prioritisation?"00:18
zerojayandre does, I think.00:18
andre_actually: no.00:18
andre_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoSCoW00:19
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, failed to connect.00:25
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, bad Mac :P00:25
SpeedEvilTalk lacks something at the moment. It should have an auto-generated youtube channel for each thread, where everyone can add video comments.00:25
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, did you removed the previous pairings ?00:25
zerojaylol00:25
GeneralAntillesYes00:25
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, which opinion did you use ?00:25
GeneralAntillesMe need a bot to mirror -1 comments that match keyword searches to Talk.00:26
GeneralAntilles(from slashdot)00:26
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, the opinion that you suck.00:26
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, I know :P , -->Option00:26
GeneralAntillesHang on, let me delete the pairings again.00:27
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, use the third option, if it fails to connect go back and choose the second (reconnect)00:28
GeneralAntillesOK, it works.00:29
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qwerty12_N810Option 4: Ditch the Mac00:29
GeneralAntillesWhy doesn't the hardware keyboard work?00:29
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, same problem as xev and Qole's stuff00:29
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, 'course the layout is all wrong.00:30
VDVsxhintfocus00:30
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, qwerty12 has a patch for that, right?00:30
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, not for the efl LIB :(00:30
GeneralAntillesAh00:30
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Ship xprop with BlueMaemo =)00:30
GeneralAntillesWell, my issue is that the layouts don't match.00:30
* qwerty12_N810 hides00:30
* VDVsx has to kick someone00:30
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VDVsxqwerty12_N810, in the worse case I can do a gtk or Qt main loop that inject the keys into EFL00:31
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lardmannight chaps, cu tomorrow00:32
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, OK, got some bugs to file.00:33
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, as I said the UI is unfinished, but shot :P00:33
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, what version is this?00:33
VDVsx0.3.900:34
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, can you move the settings and about up into the menu?00:35
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, I can, but this is not GTK+ :)00:36
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, well, it's trying to look like it. :P00:36
VDVsxmore or less, lol00:37
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, not being able to get to about until you've connected to something is irritating.00:37
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, true, I've plans to make hildon-like menu, but first I need to finish the 'default' UI00:39
VDVsxactually a did one, but very ugly00:39
* VDVsx needs wazd help :p00:39
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ah, I've a service record that support the multimedia keys/email/browser ...., only need a way to assign them (more UI work :()00:41
Jaffacrashanddie: Wikipedia link above is accurate: Must/Should/Could/Won't00:41
VDVsxbetter than assign p or space00:42
GeneralAntillesDon't think they'll work in OS X.00:42
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, yes they work, according to one of my testers00:43
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, "volume up/down, mute, play/pause, stop, next track, previous track all work as expected on both systems." XP and Mac OS 10.5.800:44
wazdVDVsx: who summoned me? :D00:46
* GeneralAntilles throws holy water on wazd and runs.00:46
VDVsxwazd, was GeneralAntilles00:46
VDVsxw:P00:47
wazdHarrr!00:47
wazdVDVsx: so? :)00:48
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Macern900 out yet?00:48
Macer:)00:48
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Maceri was going to buy one this week but went out and bought a ton of clothes instead haha00:48
VDVsxwazd, I need more stuff for BlueMaemo, but lets finish the essential first :)00:48
wazdMacer: nono, is n900 shipped yet? :D00:49
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GeneralAntillesMacer, Chicago and NY flagship stores supposedly have them.00:50
SpeedEvilAlso allegedly UK orders from nokia.co.uk are going out monday00:51
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lbtSpeedEvil: oooh00:52
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SpeedEvilbut that was from talk - so who knows. (though the nokia.co.uk site itself says 'from 23rd'00:53
SpeedEvil(no change in order status though I ordered on the 20th)00:53
ShadowJK.fi store orders mostly went out yesterday, allegedly. Alot of people who managed to obtain UPS tracking though, say UPS is moving the packages the wrong direction, away from .fi o_000:53
alteregoMEEMO00:53
alteregococksqueezers00:54
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ShadowJKI'm afraid to check if my visa still says -800 or if nokia shop failed to charge it00:54
GeneralAntilleslol00:54
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GeneralAntillesI still need to re-order with DDP00:54
GeneralAntillesMy credit card company hates Forum Nokia's BS.00:54
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cghoulyHello everyone. I was wondering, is anyone working on porting mauku 2 and/or microfeed to diablo?00:56
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wazdVDVsx: can I go sleep now? :)00:59
VDVsxwazd, no00:59
VDVsxlol00:59
wazdVDVsx: damn :)\00:59
VDVsxwazd, now you can :P00:59
VDVsxbut only 3 hours01:00
VDVsxis enough for you01:00
wazdVDVsx: kk my lord :D01:00
VDVsx:D01:00
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kirmaspeedevil: as shadowjk told... I guess large portion of european preorders have got shipping from rotterdam on friday evening01:02
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kirmamine is Köln/Cologne now01:02
kirma+in01:03
ShadowJKI ordered rather late, and the damn website was so broken I couldn't register a username, so I didn't get any emails..01:03
ShadowJKexcept the first 301:03
SpeedEvilNo charge yet.01:03
javispedrosave for DDP orders, which have been lost in cyberspace.01:03
ShadowJKAnd Nokia Shop FI said they ran out of devices due to high demand and couldn't fulfill every order :/01:03
kirmaNokia Shop FI gave indirect impression that they would have the devices in Finland, but they were really in Rotterdam (port?), and I think some non-Finn had identical tracking information indicating that the shipment there was much larger than just Finns... so others in other countries might be missing some too01:05
mikhasbut that's good signs, no?01:05
mikhashigh demand, I mean01:06
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ShadowJKWell at this point the devices going to fi aren't going anywhere else because no other place has crippled the keyboard in the same way, right ;)01:06
kirmaI'm confident it'll end up at work on monday to me, unless UPS delivery guy fumbles locally at Helsinki...01:06
ShadowJKI think I picked standard delivery, I don't remember well. I hope that means Itella and not UPS01:07
kirmaI would certainly have appreciated it getting shipped on thursday and reaching me friday, but it's not such a huge issue it would tip over my world01:07
ShadowJKThe devices sitting in rotterdam kinda explains why they started shipping so soon, to account for the extra time it takes?01:08
kirmaRotterdam would also indicate that they really did ship it by *ship* from Korea01:09
kirmahow long that takes...01:10
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ShadowJKlol01:12
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ShadowJK2-3 weeks I guess?01:12
ShadowJKwhat's that other big port in germany?01:12
ShadowJKup some river iirc01:12
SpeedEvilrhine01:13
kirmanetherlands, biggest port in europe01:13
qwerty12_N810Hamburg?01:13
rangeHamburg. But that's really not as close as Rotterdam.01:13
rangeSpeedEvil: Further up the rhine is stupid if you need a central hub. Next large harbour behind Rotterdam is Duisburg.01:13
till-bremerhaven01:13
till-:)01:14
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Stskeepsif from korea, why not italy/france?01:14
Stskeeps:P01:14
SpeedEvilYeah - I was trying to remember my german geography.01:14
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SpeedEvilWhich comes largely from the '1632' series of novels.01:14
Stskeepsif it goes through the canal down in egypt01:14
till-but hamburg harbor is much bigger01:15
rangeStskeeps: Yeah, I'm wondering about that too, as it has to go through the mediterranean sea.01:15
rangeSo maybe not by ship after all?01:15
* SpeedEvil ponders the _real_ reason for the shipping delays.01:15
ShadowJKStskeeps, sea is most economical01:15
SpeedEvilIt's a tragic reverse of the Spinal Tap moment.01:15
SpeedEvilThe screen is in fact 3.5m, not 3.5".01:16
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StskeepsSpeedEvil: i'd pay for a 3.5m N900.01:16
Stskeepsif it came at the price suggested in DDP, that'd be great, too ;)01:16
rangeRotterdam seems to be one of UPS' central hubs.01:16
andre_maybe some Somali pirates now all have N900s and that's the real reason why we wait ;-)01:17
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kirmasome page says that daesan-rotterdam shipment would take a tad over a month01:18
rangeBut UPS is bleh. Looks like taking off half a day if I want to receive the thing at home.01:18
kirmathat would be great joy since vast portion of somali don't even know how to read their own language01:19
andre_i'm not talking about the average Somali (whatever that means since the country does not exist), but educated pirates.01:20
SpeedEvilSomalia doesn't exist?01:20
kirmawhere they have got their education if the country has supposedly been in constant civil war for like twenty years?01:21
kirma:I01:21
kirma(yeah, offtopic)01:21
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qwerty12_N810Somalia's awesome. I mean, where else in the world can you go to Puntland?01:21
andre_true that!01:21
andre_kirma, just because there is civil war in parts of the country does not mean that people are uneducated ;-)01:22
SpeedEvilOr that it doesn't exist.01:22
andre_pirates do contact ship owners in english or french i assume.01:22
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andre_yes, it exists on some maps. but that's all.01:22
mikhasthey needed the n900s to extend their pirate business01:23
kirmaI have to say that the pirates haven't really worked too hard on giving that civilised, highly educated image...01:23
andre_well, maybe that's the media here?01:23
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andre_they probably didn't start piracy because they were bored.01:24
kirmaI actually think european media is gentle to them, but they're completely uninterested to spin their own ultra-selfish actions in believably positive light.01:24
andre_and they probably don't have good boats and weapons because they are stupid.01:25
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andre_sure. but why should they care about what others think, if nobody cared about somalia for 15 years? :-)01:25
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andre_if european ships take away your fish and dump their waste in front of your coast i'd also think about how to pay back.01:26
andre_(still it's both criminal of course. it's not that I want to say that it's good what they do.)01:27
kirmaif you look at historical records, you can see that fishing has never been actually big part of society in somalia. and I doubt if any country has right to demand that other countries should come to solve their own problems, and threat with trouble if they don't.01:29
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kirmabut I'd say: back to the topic, political discussions are usually not so fruitful...01:29
andre_true :-)01:30
GeneralAntillesYeah! Let's talk about how much bugzilla sucks instead. :P01:30
kirmaat least that's politics that somehow touches us ;)01:30
qwerty12_N810Yeah, that bug"master" even more so! ;P01:31
kirmaanyway... bedtime ->01:31
andre_GeneralAntilles, tell me, tell me! :-P01:31
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rangeGeneralAntilles: Other bug trackers suck too, at least bugzilla has the features :)01:31
andre_qwerty12_N810, who's that sucker?01:31
GeneralAntillesrange, sarcasm context: bug #627201:32
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6272 User-friendliness fail01:32
qwerty12_N810andre_: Erm, *looks around*. Maybe I can get him or her to reveal themselves with a piece of chocolate01:32
GeneralAntillesThem, qwerty12_N810, _them_.01:33
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rangeGeneralAntilles: Ah, the Reverend. Well, yes, for beginners Mantis seems to be more user friendly.01:33
rangeFor bug takers, it really isn't.01:33
* qwerty12_N810 growls at the pedant that is GeneralAntilles 01:34
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* GeneralAntilles thwaps qwerty12_N810 on the muzzle.01:34
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JaffaAll bug trackers suck; and there are valid points in the tmo thread which andre_ says are fixed in a later Bugzilla build.01:37
GeneralAntillesIndeed01:39
* GeneralAntilles has a few ideas about the guided form.01:39
andre_i should check out the guided form in the 3.4 landfill test installation once my workmachine is usable again (upgrading distro currently)01:40
GeneralAntillesandre_, what are those grayed out strings that disappear when you click a text field called?01:40
GeneralAntillesWe need some of those.01:40
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andre_ah. good question.01:41
GeneralAntillesShort strings to indicate what should be in a field.01:42
andre_yes, i understand01:42
GeneralAntillesandre_, yeah, not sure why I typed that.01:43
GeneralAntillesI think I was going to come up with a good example, but it didn't happen.01:43
* GeneralAntilles is distracted watching The Office.01:43
andre_US version, I assume?01:43
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GeneralAntillesIndeed01:44
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javispedroare you trying to track the N900 as they're shipped through the world?01:46
javispedrocrazy, crasy, crazy stuff :)01:46
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GeneralAntillesandre_, tooltips could also be handy.01:47
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andre_if people get it that they exist01:47
Stskeepsjavispedro: any luck with the new shipment?01:47
GeneralAntillesandre_, you know those little Web 2.0 pixelart question marks they put by form items?01:47
javispedroStskeeps: no, same results...01:47
Stskeepsjavispedro: k01:47
andre_oh yeah!01:48
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timeless_mbpoh!01:52
timeless_mbpdid anyone take any new photos of the nokia store in HEL?01:52
* andre_ wonders whether there is a Nokia store in this town too that he could annoy :-P01:53
timeless_mbpandre_: there's one in Chicago, IL, one in NYC01:53
timeless_mbpiirc there's one in Tokyo01:53
andre_okay. sounds like very few towns01:54
timeless_mbpiirc there are <1001:54
timeless_mbphttp://www.flagship.nokia.com/01:55
timeless_mbp9 in fact01:55
timeless_mbpso precisely <1001:55
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timeless_mbpwait01:56
timeless_mbpomigosh01:56
timeless_mbpNokia = Stupid01:56
timeless_mbpthey have a flagship store in .br01:56
timeless_mbpand no one thought to warn them that Ovi was taken?01:56
luke-jr?01:57
timeless_mbphttp://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE58N6QT2009092401:58
sp3000timeless_mbp: did you notice the mexican bit is misspelled in the fp flash01:59
timeless_mbpthe site was pure flash, my eyes glazed over01:59
timeless_mbpsp3000: that's impressive02:00
timeless_mbp3points02:00
GeneralAntillesNokia sure loves Flash.02:00
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* timeless_mbp wonders if they actually spell the store name "Cuidad [sic] de México"02:00
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GeneralAntillesNice02:00
timeless_mbpcredit to sp300002:00
timeless_mbpconsistency @nokia is um...02:01
timeless_mbpincredibly bad when it comes to es-MX02:01
GeneralAntillesIncredibly bad when it comes to anything.02:02
GeneralAntillesExcept, perhaps, for being inconsistent.02:02
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timeless_mbpnice02:04
timeless_mbpthe spanish video has random English text02:04
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timeless_mbpbtw, how does nokia spell 'en es ee arr eye ee ess' ?02:05
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lcuktimeless, they spell it the same, with extra spaces occasionally dont they02:07
lcukthat hurt my head more than the stuff ive been doin today02:07
* lcuk won tho02:07
timeless_mbpNseries or nseries?02:07
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lcukahhh case sensitive02:08
timeless_mbpwow, the nokia store has n800s and n810s02:08
lcukid tell you to go look on the site02:09
lcukbut you will find all variations no doubt lol02:09
lcuko_O really?02:09
lcuk800s still?02:09
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timeless_mbpdunno02:10
timeless_mbppresumably they never update their cr*p02:10
luke-jrwhat price?02:13
timeless_mbpsorry, never been south of the border02:13
timeless_mbpwell, i've been to http://www.thesouthoftheborder.com/02:13
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tad_tis quiet02:18
sgbirchEveryone is asleep dreaming of n90002:20
Xisdibiksgbirch: wrong, im day dreaming of mine02:20
MacerI'M IN CHICAGO02:20
Macerwoop! let me go downtown and see if they have one :D02:20
XisdibikMacer: how do you like living in the city with the highest homicide rate in the US? ;)02:21
Macerreally? we made the highest huh?02:21
Macerusually it is a  contest with NYC02:21
Macerhaha02:21
Xisdibiki think so02:21
Maceri know we have the highest sales tax02:21
tad_n90002:21
MacerXisdibik: year isn't over yet ;)02:21
Xisdibikhow high is it there?02:21
tad_id like one02:21
Macerusually we are neck and neck with NYC02:21
Macerironically enough02:21
Macerpeople here think it is something to be proud of haha02:22
Xisdibikhow high is the sales tax there?02:22
Macer10.25%02:22
Xisdibikdamn lol02:22
Xisdibikyea its like 9.75% here02:22
MacerXisdibik: yeah... it's rough ;)02:22
Macerhighest in the US02:22
Xisdibikwe compete with NYC for most expensive housing market though02:22
Xisdibik:D02:22
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Macerwe don't.... nyc is outrageous.. like CA market02:23
Xisdibikwe being the area i am02:23
* Xisdibik lives in CA02:23
Maceri  never understood that either. the houses in CA are of such disgusting quality02:23
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Macerlike... lego building02:23
XisdibikMacer: depends where you go02:23
Xisdibikmy moms house is really nice02:23
Maceri was in SD02:23
Xisdibikas is my grandmothers02:23
Xisdibikwell thats Socal :P02:23
Macerand they had that lego crap02:23
Macer:)02:23
Xisdibikthe real housing market expenses are in SF bay area02:23
Macerwhere they could put a building together in 1 week02:23
Macerwith fabricated bricks02:24
sgbirchTry 17.5% ... uk02:24
Macerheh02:24
Macersgbirch: yeah.. but you have something to show for your taxes02:24
Macerwe have debt and tanks02:24
Xisdibiksgbirch: that seems lower than it used to be02:24
sgbirchAnd 50% marginable income tax02:24
Macerouch02:24
Xisdibikwasnt it like 21%+ a while ago?02:24
Macersgbirch: streets paved in gold? :)02:24
XisdibikMacer: no, bricks02:25
MacerXisdibik: seriously?02:25
Macerwe used to have brick streets02:25
Xisdibiksome parts of UK yea02:25
Xisdibik;)02:25
Macershame we don't anymore02:25
sgbirchBrits loves paying tax02:26
sp3000...gold bricks02:26
javispedrooh, someone reused my argument in the java thread.02:27
Xisdibikwe have a brick road that winds left and right02:27
XisdibikLombard Street02:28
Xisdibikhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Sanfran_61_bg_032605.jpg02:28
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Anprhello guys02:29
Xisdibikhello Anpr02:29
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microlithXisdibik: considering some of the other streets, I wonder why they went through the difficulty of doing that02:29
Anprhow are u ? any news ?02:29
Xisdibikmicrolith: not sure actualy *reads the wiki*02:30
XisdibikThe switchbacks design, first suggested by property owner Carl Henry and instituted in 1922, was born out of necessity in order to reduce the hill's natural 27% grade, which was too steep for most vehicles to climb.02:31
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microlithahh02:31
microlithothers might think "maybe a road shouldn't go here"02:32
XisdibikAmericans are stubborn :)02:32
microlithno joke02:32
microlithalthough I imagine it's fun to go down :)02:32
Xisdibikit is02:32
Xisdibikmy friend went down it on something i totally forgot what its called02:33
Xisdibikits like putting scateboard wheels on tiny little platforms02:33
Xisdibikand going down on two of them, one for each foot02:33
microlithoh, sorta like doing a slalom, only without snow02:34
Xisdibikmmm02:34
Xisdibiknot really02:34
Xisdibiklet me try to find it02:34
GeneralAntillesRollerskating? :P02:35
lcuktimeless, mxr cross reference, im just wanting to search for all instances of a function in use.02:35
Xisdibikno, they are not attached to your feet02:35
lcukwithin a set of files02:35
Xisdibikits like two little skateboards with one wheel each02:35
timeless_mbplcuk: sure02:35
lcukhttp://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle-20091116/search02:35
lcuki got that far02:35
Chanio.002:35
lcukthe "in files matching" area02:36
timeless_mbpif you want an identifier search, you're using the wrong entrypoint02:36
lcukis it simply *gary* for everything with gary in02:36
timeless_mbpsearch is vaguely plain text02:36
lcukfilename wise02:36
timeless_mbpit's a regexp against the file path02:36
timeless_mbpbut again, you have the wrong entrypoint assuming you can spell the function name correctly02:36
lcukcool, so complete control when searching02:36
timeless_mbppretty much02:36
timeless_mbpoh, for fremantle you almost certainly want to use a file limited search02:37
timeless_mbpas i think the db might be too large for search to work otherwise02:37
lcukyeah i know02:37
timeless_mbpnot certain but...02:37
lcuki know which area im looking02:37
timeless_mbpfor ident search, that's not required02:37
lcuki just wanted to see if it matched with the sort of results i used to have in windows02:37
lcuk(i had my own file search doofer)02:37
lcukim not interested in references outside a very specific area02:38
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lcukand i know there will be loads02:38
javispedroali1234: it's not because it's using ogles instead of ogl.02:38
javispedroali1234: you're hitting a clutter bug.02:38
timeless_mbpin general you should probably just use /fremantle/ instead of picking a specific version02:38
timeless_mbpthey're unlikely to change particularly often02:38
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ali1234javispedro: the blue/orange thing?02:38
lcuki have done with every other time, but you highlight the different versions on the frontpage02:39
ali1234the GL/GLES thing causes bezier surfaces not to work02:39
javispedroali1234: yes02:39
lcuki tohught there might be a reason02:39
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ali1234hence missing features02:39
timeless_mbpnot really, just being silly i suppose02:39
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javispedroali1234: missing features in the ogre ogles backend02:39
javispedro?02:39
lcuknahh making it clear which is there02:39
ali1234probably yes02:39
* timeless_mbp nods02:39
ali1234if you try to make a bezier patch, the call succeeds but when you try to instantiate it, it doesn't work02:40
ali1234probably just not implemented. normal meshes work fine02:40
ali1234it basically all works fine, just needs a little bit of polish, and packaging02:40
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javispedroali1234: the blue/orange stuff will work fine on device, or in SDK if you apply patch in bug #487002:47
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK02:47
ali1234i'm running it on the device02:47
javispedrooh, then that's interesting.02:48
lcukali1234, did you "fix" your code in the sdk at some point02:48
ali1234i didn't know the sdk even had gles emulation02:48
javispedrothen forget about everything I said :)02:48
javispedroit does.02:48
javispedroonly in x86 target.02:49
ali1234lcuk: what do you mean?02:49
lcukor could someone else - ie a patch was made in userland code to fix the apparant bug in the sdk02:49
ali1234the x libs thing?02:49
javispedrodoubt it.02:49
ali1234i don't know what is causingit02:49
ali1234i just skipped compiling all the things that need X, namely the tools and the samples. you don't need them02:50
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ali1234it could be worked around in the cmake rules probably, but i don't know how cmake decides what libraries to link or add extra ones to it02:50
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lcukin the last 24h ive gone from 1 screen to 2, and i find now i have 2, i could really do with 4 or more02:52
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javispedrolcuk: how true ... :P02:56
javispedrosometimes I wish I've stayed with just 1.02:56
lcuki was happy02:56
lcukits actually linux thats more optimized for more02:56
CoreFusion-damn that Borderlands has me hooked02:56
lcukor unoptimized02:56
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RXrenesis8don't worry, play it for a week and you'll be at level 50 with two playthroughs done and have nothing left to do.02:58
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* lcuk has neckache03:10
lcukim not used to looking around so much when using computer, im sure im gonna have a suntan in the morning too03:10
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microlithhow big are the monitors?03:11
MacerIt may seem impossible that two galaxies on opposite sides can be separated by 93 billion light years after only 13 billion years, since special relativity states that matter cannot be accelerated to exceed the speed of light in a localized region of space-time. However, according to general relativity, space can expand with no intrinsic limit on its rate; thus, two galaxies can separate more quickly than the speed of light if the space between them grows.03:11
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javispedrothe monitors are galaxy sized?03:12
Macerah yes. the expansion paradox03:12
Macereinstein fails us again :)03:12
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Macerthe universe can expand at ftl speeds but matter within it cannot travel faster than light03:13
Macerlies03:13
Macerheh03:13
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, I'm at 4 at the moment.03:15
GeneralAntilleslcuk, was at 6 for a little while03:15
GeneralAntillesbut 4 works pretty well.03:15
w00t_6 *monitors*?03:15
GeneralAntillesYeah, 2x 23.5", 2x 20", 2x 19" (widescreen).03:16
w00t_yeek.03:16
w00t_most I've had was two, I'd *like* three03:16
w00t_but that isn't likely for a while given I mostly work on laptops nowdays03:17
GeneralAntillesLaptops suck.03:18
RXrenesis8pfft03:19
GeneralAntilles4 is ideal at this resolution, I think.03:19
GeneralAntillesGTFO with your crappy MacBook Pro.03:19
RXrenesis8pfffffft03:19
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3981783507/03:19
RXrenesis8I'd like to see you fit your mac pro in a carryon bag03:19
GeneralAntillesYou don't have too many far-flung outliers and there's enough space to put stuff.03:19
GeneralAntillesRXrenesis8, Forza 3 instead?03:20
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GeneralAntillesRXrenesis8, that's what I have my N900 and (sometimes) my Mini 9 for.03:21
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w00t_GeneralAntilles: depends, mine is ok really03:33
w00t_it suits me, it's not for everyone ;p03:33
GeneralAntillesw00t_, I've got a Mac Pro with a billion and one hard drives, 2 graphics cards, 8GB of RAM, and 8 cores. :P03:33
w00t_sure03:34
w00t_I don't need that :p03:34
lpotterthats not enough ram03:34
w00t_and for when I do, I have a desktop03:34
GeneralAntilleslpotter, agreed, but I have to wait for more money. :D03:34
w00t_but I use that about once per 3 months03:35
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/photos/03:36
lpotterhow you going to run scratchbox on that?03:36
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, those pictures are all sideways.03:44
timeless_mbpyeah... dunno why03:44
timeless_mbpseems like the camera cheats03:45
timeless_mbpand relies on EXIF03:45
timeless_mbpwhich the browser doesn't know to use03:45
GeneralAntillesAnyway, why are these relevant?03:45
* timeless_mbp shrugs03:46
timeless_mbpthat's the nokia store in HEL03:46
timeless_mbpi'll take photos of what it looks like now at some point (maybe)03:47
timeless_mbpthere's actually an n900 in one of the windows03:47
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I know the N900's fat, but I believe that's actually a giant N97. *g*03:56
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luke-jrwtf?03:59
XisdibikGeneralAntilles: how dare you talk about the n900 like that04:03
Xisdibikshe is NOT fat!04:03
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RXrenesis8I want to ride my bicycle04:06
ShapeshifterWho's this "Eldar"?04:07
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GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, some Russian blogger.04:09
microlithhis name confused me at first04:14
microlith(I had warhammer 40k on the brain at the time)04:14
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tadthebuilderso are most people satisfied with their n900's?04:16
lpotterI might be if I had one04:17
auenfi would be if nokia would consider bringing it out here04:17
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tadthebuilderheh04:17
microlithfuck04:18
tadthebuilderi cant get one unless the price drops alot myself04:18
microlithchase denied my transaction with nokia04:18
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microlithgreat, time to call them04:19
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Robot101tadthebuilder: seen them on amazon.com? they're <$500 if you get the $50 rebate04:19
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microlithI wish you didn't have to already have a nokia phone to be able to track your order progress online04:20
tadthebuilderrobot, waiting on a used oen04:20
tadthebuilderone*04:20
tadthebuildercannot afford 500 dollars on a phone right now...04:20
microlithman what the hell is the point of having a credit card if their default behavior is to deny charges over a (rather) low amount04:21
DeadDodomicrolight: To build up a credit rating if you should need one later.04:21
SpeedEviltadthebuilder: If you're overweight, try the n900 diet plan. Eat half the food to compensate for buying the n900.04:23
tadthebuilderwelll04:23
tadthebuilderid probably die04:23
SpeedEvil(though /me is only on 2/3, not 1/2)04:23
microlithfucking credit card04:24
SpeedEvil:/04:24
tadthebuilderill just stick with my n800 till they show up used04:24
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luke-jrI'll just stick with my N810 until someone makes a decent handheld >.>04:25
DeadDodoNo one will ever make a decent handheld.04:25
luke-jrDeadDodo: Zaurus SL-C760 was for its time04:26
javispedroDeadDodo: quite appropiate name.04:26
DeadDodoDidn't that have a tiny keyboard, or am I think of a different model?04:26
javispedroluke-jr: decent handhelds are gone the way of the dodo.04:26
javispedroi learned that 4 years ago.04:26
javispedrothis is the age of the iphone.04:26
DeadDodoPsion used to make some very nice handhelds 10 years ago.04:27
microlithoh goddamnit04:27
microliththey've been blocking everything for the past week04:27
luke-jrjavispedro: :(04:27
luke-jrDeadDodo: it had a VERY NICE keyboard04:27
GeneralAntillesAh, welcome back, tadthebuilder. :)04:27
DeadDodoThen I've mistaken it for another model. Was this one of those clamshell types?04:27
GeneralAntillesPost-congratulations. :)04:27
tadthebuilderhaha04:27
tadthebuilderthanks04:27
luke-jrDeadDodo: yes04:27
tadthebuilderi was a little slow on the internets getting up04:28
tadthebuilderhow is everything going generalantilles04:28
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tadthebuilderlcuk you here?04:30
lcukish04:31
tadthebuilderhow are you doing man?04:31
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* lcuk untangles keyboard04:32
lcukim doing great i think!   how are you04:32
tadthebuilderdoing well04:32
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* lcuk nods04:32
tadthebuilderhappily married04:32
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tadthebuilderyou still looking for a job?04:33
lcukheh so now no way to sneak an n900 on the credit card lol04:33
lcukno tadthebuilder :) i am now gainfully employed (though still finding my feet)04:33
tadthebuilderglad to hear it04:33
tadthebuilderyeah no way for a n90004:33
tadthebuilderno budget either...:)04:33
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tadthebuilderits all good04:33
tadthebuilderrather have a wife than an n90004:33
tadthebuildern800 still works04:34
lcuki think the suggestion earlier by SpeedEvil was cool04:34
tadthebuilderheh04:34
tadthebuilderwell I have no weight to lose04:34
lcukholy crap it connected04:34
tadthebuilderim 6 3 and I weight about 14004:34
tadthebuilder(I should probably convert that...)04:34
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lcuknahhh04:35
lcukand its gone again04:35
lcukwireless network is bein a sod04:35
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tadthebuilderany updates on liqbase since my last being on?04:36
lcuktadthebuilder, there is a maemo long weekend event happening in Barcelona start of next month.04:36
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lcuksome of Nokias top UX team are coming over and discussing with some developers and innovators04:36
lcukand liqbase calendar is on the agenda :)04:37
* GeneralAntilles yawns.04:37
tadthebuilderwell thats cool04:37
tadthebuilderand exciting for you04:37
GeneralAntillestadthebuilder, no more cold hotdogs? ;)04:37
lcukindeed04:37
tadthebuilderwhere do you work no04:37
tadthebuilderhaha exactly04:37
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lcuki work with collabora, based in cambridge04:37
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tadthebuilderi like the ninja04:38
lcukheh04:38
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tadthebuilderyeah so I googled it04:38
GeneralAntillesBig Maemo contractor.04:38
* lcuk is slowly getting over hurdles04:39
tadthebuilderah okay04:39
lcuki seem to find every single pothole along the way :D04:39
tadthebuildermakes for a fun ride though, as long as your neck is tough04:40
lcukheh just moaning tonight about neck ache04:41
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lcukive gone from 1 monitor to 204:41
Robot101o/04:41
lcukbut now i need more04:41
tadthebuilderadd a third04:41
Robot101evening lcuk04:41
lcukhey Robot101 \o04:41
* Robot101 has a bit of neckache using his old desktop PC on the projector :)04:41
lcuktadthebuilder, i need about 10 with linux04:41
lcuki was happy with the one before lol04:42
* Robot101 put a new gfx card in so he can drive the projector at 1080P HD04:42
tadthebuilderhey the more monitors the better04:42
Robot101lcuk: you should have another on tues :)04:42
lcukwicked :D04:42
Robot101GeneralAntilles: we're not that big, only around 50 of us :D04:42
GeneralAntillesRobot101, I should say, relative to some of the other contractors.04:42
GeneralAntilleslcuk, Samsung 2343b,x04:43
GeneralAntilless/,/w/04:43
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: lcukw Samsung 2343b,x04:43
* GeneralAntilles tried to type qwerty there for a second.04:43
lcukRobot101, i think i have it running :)04:43
lcukhow big is the projectection?04:44
* tadthebuilder is confused by infobot04:44
lcukinfobot rocks!04:44
infobotyes I do04:44
lcukhe got upgraded recently04:44
lcuk:D hahaha04:44
tadthebuilderwhere did he come from?04:44
GeneralAntillestadthebuilder, I should've used s/,/w/204:44
tadthebuilderor is it actually a person04:44
GeneralAntillesBeen here forever.04:44
crashanddieit's probably a sign04:44
GeneralAntillesIt's a person04:44
crashanddiePS3 just crashed04:44
Robot101lcuk: its widescreen, about 3m x 1.5m I guess04:45
GeneralAntillesWho's parsing all of our requests.04:45
GeneralAntillesHe's very dedicated.04:45
GeneralAntilles~botsnack04:45
infobotGeneralAntilles: thanks04:45
tadthebuilderi am very confused04:45
Robot101maybe a bit less, I'm crap at estimating distances04:45
GeneralAntillestadthebuilder, it's a bot. ;)04:45
Robot101pretty big though :)04:45
GeneralAntillesHe stores factoids for us04:45
tadthebuilderthankyou04:45
GeneralAntilles~mer04:45
infobothmm... mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer04:45
GeneralAntillesdoes substitutins04:45
tadthebuilderah isee04:45
Robot101I don't have the right cable or I'd plug my N900 in :)04:45
GeneralAntilless/ins/ions/04:45
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: does substitutions04:45
GeneralAntillesand has stupid little features like04:46
GeneralAntilles~3d204:46
GeneralAntilles~roll 3d204:46
* infobot stuffs 3d2 in a hamster ball and rolls it down a steep, snow-covered mountain04:46
lcukmy cats went mental chasing tux last time i had a projector here04:46
tadthebuilderi thought it was actually going to roll the dice04:46
* GeneralAntilles smacks infobot04:46
lcukthey also like line drawing04:46
GeneralAntilles~coin04:46
tadthebuilderwe could play d&d haha04:46
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, coin is flipped... heads or tails?04:46
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GeneralAntilles~lart infobot04:46
* infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking generalantilles's head off04:46
tadthebuilderits a little violent04:46
GeneralAntillesIndeed04:47
lcukyou would be too if you had to answer the chatter in #maemo all day04:47
tadthebuilderanyone now anything about suddenlink cable companies internet provider?04:47
crashanddie~lart infobat04:47
* infobot changes infobat's permissions to 0777 and tells the world04:47
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tadthebuildertrue good point04:47
crashanddies/bat/bot/04:47
infobotcrashanddie meant: ~lart infobot04:47
lcukRobot101, did you get your bios updated04:47
lcukn900 should have a floppy drive04:48
tadthebuilderi really dont understand the subtitution thing04:48
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lcuktadthebuilder, s/oldthing/newthing/      based on the last thing a person said04:48
tadthebuilderah okay04:48
tadthebuildernow I understand04:48
crashanddietadthebuilder, it matches the first part, and replaces the first occurrence of it with second part04:48
crashanddiefur example04:48
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crashanddies/u/o/04:49
crashanddiefail, bot is gone04:49
infobotcrashanddie meant: for example04:49
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crashanddiewb all04:49
crashanddiebut then you can also do global04:49
tadthebuilderokay04:49
tadthebuilderunderstood04:49
javispedro~rot13 fgbc zvfhfvat zr!04:49
infobotstop misusing me!04:49
crashanddiein which case, it'll replace all occurences04:49
crashanddies/i/o/g04:49
infobotcrashanddie meant: on whoch case, ot'll replace all occurences04:49
tadthebuilderhey general you seem to know everything, know anything about suddenlink?04:50
tadthebuilderthat is really cool.04:51
tadthebuilderI love infobot04:51
GeneralAntillesNope04:51
GeneralAntillesI'm familiar with Brighthouse and Comcast.04:51
GeneralAntillesOne of which sucks a little bit and one of which is the spawn of the devil.04:51
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tadthebuilderah okay04:52
tadthebuilderim just paranoid of cable internet providers04:52
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tadthebuilderi know most of them have really strict guidelines04:52
tadthebuilderive heard of some that dont let you use your own wireless router04:52
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.dslreports.com/forum/cebridge04:52
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microlithcomcast's quality varies by region04:54
GeneralAntillesmicrolith, from shit to worse.04:54
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microlithoddly I've had no issue with them04:54
tadthebuilderi just hate how unlimited plans arent unlimited04:54
tadthebuilderim mostly worried about the wireless router though04:54
tadthebuilderI have one04:54
tadthebuilderand i know they have a plan where they install wireless into your house04:55
microlithgranted the service I'm paying for is barely better than what I had in Japan in 200304:55
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microlithwhich makes no sense, but still04:55
tadthebuilderso im paranoid that they wont let me use their wireless router04:55
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tadthebuilderi mean us my wireless router04:55
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microlithtadthebuilder: if you turn down their router, you can just use yours04:56
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microliththey can't block yours or somesuch04:56
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tadthebuilderi know they cannot stop it04:56
tadthebuilderbut cant they forbid it in the user agreement?04:56
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GeneralAntillesUsually they don't.04:57
GeneralAntillesMost of them have no reason to.04:57
tadthebuilderah okay04:57
luke-jrusually they do forbid sharing with other people, though04:57
tadthebuilderwell my issue is I have two choices04:57
tadthebuilderthem or embarq dsl04:57
tadthebuilderI dont like dsl speeds04:57
tadthebuilderand im hoping to use voip (maybe even magic jack) because I have a cell phone and dont need a landline04:57
tadthebuilderin my opinion I dont need anything04:57
GeneralAntillesI'd probably go with cable.04:58
tadthebuilderbut my wife wants some type of house phone04:58
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tadthebuildercable is advertising at a cheaper rate to04:58
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tadthebuilder20 bucks a month, even if its by itself04:58
microlithfor how long?04:58
tadthebuilderthough I know that an introductory rate04:58
microlithheh04:58
tadthebuilderdoesnt say how long04:58
tadthebuilderor what the price will change too04:58
tadthebuilderI really dont like companies that do business like that04:59
tadthebuildertell me what im going to pay when that price expires04:59
crashanddiemeh04:59
crashanddieyou pay $20 for a phone line?05:00
tadthebuilder20 dollars would be for their cable internet access05:00
lcukwhich country are you in atm seb?05:01
luke-jrthat's pretty standard for a phone line here...05:01
crashanddieuk05:01
luke-jractually, rather low, except for VoIP05:01
tadthebuilderyeah05:01
tadthebuilderi realize that05:01
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tadthebuilderbut 20 dollars for cable internet seems like a scam to me...05:01
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tadthebuilderhaha05:01
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GeneralAntillesThat's what I paid from Comcast for my first 12 months.05:02
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luke-jrtadthebuilder: $20 for cable internet is very low in the USA05:02
tadthebuilderits because their are tiers05:02
tadthebuilderof usage05:02
tadthebuilderspeeds actually05:02
luke-jrit's usually like $45/mo05:02
tadthebuilderand that 1mbps05:02
tadthebuilderwhich is all they offer in my area05:03
luke-jrlol05:03
GeneralAntillesOuch05:03
tadthebuilderim pretty sure that rules out reliable voip05:03
luke-jrI think mine is 15mbps05:03
luke-jrtadthebuilder: no, voip can work with dialup05:03
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tadthebuilderdid not realize that05:03
GeneralAntilles20/2Mbps at my parent's house with VoIP, and digital cable for about $120 with taxes.05:03
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luke-jrtadthebuilder: compressed, of course05:04
* GeneralAntilles stabs Freenode.05:04
luke-jrtadthebuilder: but GSM codec, which IIRC is what GSM phones use too05:04
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tadthebuilderah I see05:04
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tadthebuilderim not entirely sure but I think that its not unlimited too05:04
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tadthebuilderor its unlimited sorta05:04
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lcukat 1mbit max they could have a low limit and still never hit it05:05
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tadthebuilderpft05:05
tadthebuilderhaha05:05
derfWideband voice codecs work pretty well and 32kbps.05:05
lcukyou have to be burning up the copper to do that05:05
derfs/and/at05:05
luke-jrlcuk: most US ISPs have a 5 GB limit, which you can easily hit with 56kbps05:06
luke-jrcell phone ISPs*05:06
derfThat's before overhead. UDP/RTP overhead will take up the rest of dial-up's 56kbps.05:06
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* lcuk nods depends on usage of course05:06
tadthebuilderi would hit 5 gigs in a week05:06
tadthebuilderand also that price would not be what I get05:06
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derfluke-jr: I have never had a US ISP with a 5 GB limit.05:06
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luke-jrI used 3.2 GB today.05:07
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luke-jrand I don't think I even did any torrenting05:07
tadthebuilderthats for people who have tv service its twenty dollars a month to add internet05:07
luke-jrderf: cell phone ISP05:07
tadthebuilderi cannot find their typical price05:07
derfluke-jr: Oh. Yes.05:07
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tadthebuilderthe problem is I dont want tv05:08
tadthebuilderif I have internet why would I need tv...05:08
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crashanddieFree.fr, 30eur pm, 28Meg dsl internet (100% unlimited), Free VOIP across any interesting part of the world (landlines only by default, mobiles included for US/Canada), + 300 TV channels provided through a set top box which does DVR (300gig HD) and can be connected through CPL or ethernet05:09
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crashanddiecompete with that, bitch ;)05:09
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tadthebuilderthats sixty usd a month aproximately right?05:10
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Robot101hmmm...05:10
Robot101kensington trackball/mouse thing which doesn't use bluetooth: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-SlimBlade-Trackball-Mouse-Si860/dp/B000UR3TME05:10
Robot101or dedicated logitech trackball which does: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-904369-0914-Wireless-TrackMan-Optical/dp/B00006FMH1/05:10
crashanddietadthebuilder, less, about 4505:10
tadthebuilderi live in the middle of nowwhere north carolina, which is why my options stink05:11
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derftadthebuilder: Western half?05:12
tadthebuildereastern half05:13
tadthebuildermartin county05:13
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tadthebuilderabout an hour and a half west of nagshead05:13
derfYes, that's also pretty much the middle of nowhere.05:14
tadthebuilder(maybe less, just movie here...)05:14
tadthebuilderlive in a town of 7000 people I think05:14
GeneralAntillesRobot101, I really like the Kensingtons.05:14
derfA good friend of mine is from Clinton, but that's fairly well south of where you are.05:14
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-Expert-Mouse-Trackball-compatible/dp/B00009KH63/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258859662&sr=1-24 was the one I used last05:14
GeneralAntillesAlthough it's been replaced by an MX Revolution for a few years.05:14
zeenixRobot101: can't sleep because of mice issues? :)05:15
tadthebuilderah makes sense derf05:15
RXrenesis8So far the only thing I've been able to establish is that I suck at CTF05:15
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GeneralAntilleslol05:15
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derfI went to school in NC and my parents retired down there, so I've been all over the state.05:16
derfBut still never quite to your neck of the woods.05:16
Robot101zeenix: lol, why are you awake? :P05:16
tadthebuilderthere is nothing here worth seeing05:16
Robot101zeenix: I'm kinda on eastern time atm, not sure why05:16
tadthebuilderunless you like funs05:16
tadthebuilderguns*05:16
tadthebuilderthere is store that claims to be the largest gun store in america05:16
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derfYeah, at leats in the west you've got mountains.05:16
Robot101zeenix: playing with my PC on the projector, upgrading it and deciding how to control it from the sofa :)05:16
derf*least05:16
tadthebuilderI just moved here and its not horrible05:17
tadthebuilderbut their isnt much either05:17
tadthebuilder"Typical usage" is defined as up to 21GB per month for users on their 1Mbps tier05:17
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GeneralAntillesRobot101, BlueMaemo!05:17
tadthebuilderthey have not imposed caps05:17
lcukRobot101, n900 + bluemaemo05:17
lcuklol GeneralAntilles05:17
Robot101bluemaemo did f**k all for me05:18
tadthebuilderbut they are using a tool to show how much usage someone as used05:18
tadthebuilderwhich is typically a step on the way to imposing limitations05:18
GeneralAntillesRobot101, try the new version in Extras-devel.05:18
Robot101I read the forums and fscked around editing crap and bla bla and it just sat there and did nothing05:18
lcukRobot101, what exactly do you need05:18
tadthebuilderSuddenlink thinks e-mails are a useful metric when talking about consumption, proclaiming that their definition of normal usage allows you to send "1.5 million emails."05:19
GeneralAntillesRobot101, it's been updated quite recently.05:19
tadthebuilderthats what i use my highspeed internet for...05:19
* lcuk has a remote control that works over ip, it should really use tubes05:19
derfIt's not that they think it's "useful", it's that it's good marketing.05:19
tadthebuilderit seems like a pointless metric to me05:20
derfTo people who don't know anything, which is most of them, that sounds like an absurd abundance.05:20
tadthebuilderits like when a harddrive tells me how many mp3s it can hold...05:20
lcuktadthebuilder, you DO send out 1.5million emails a week tho lol05:21
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tadthebuilderdefinitly05:21
tadthebuilderits cause im actually a spambot05:21
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Robot101GeneralAntilles: yeah I saw, lemme give it a try05:22
Robot101lcuk: just a pointer device to drive it from my sofa05:22
Robot101I got a kbd05:22
lcuktechnically a wiimote would be perfect05:22
lcukaim at screen05:23
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Robot101I have a wiimote, it sucks05:25
Robot101well, I don't have the "sensor bar" (ie, two points of IR light)05:25
Robot101so it just acts as a relative input device05:25
lcuksimple accelerometer ala n90005:25
Robot101you have to rotate/tilt it to move anywhere, and level it to stop moving05:25
GeneralAntillesRobot101, just get a freaking sensor bar.05:26
Robot101which is pretty loss for a mouse05:26
Robot101GeneralAntilles: I dunno if that will actually make it work with wminput though05:26
GeneralAntillesYeah, which is exactly why Nintendo went with the sensor bar approach. :P05:26
lcukGeneralAntilles, robot101 is right, the driver and software to run it isnt in use afaik05:27
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Robot101wminput is this weird thing which you need to run each time, and re-pair the wiimote05:27
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Robot101its not plain-sailing like bluetooth hid05:27
lcukheh, the remote i use from n900 to my win desktop is ip05:27
lcukive never configured it beyond telling it ip05:28
lcukand i can change the channel from anywhere in the world :D05:28
* lcuk huggles his zapto.org ip05:28
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tadthebuilderdsl is faster...05:29
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lcuktadthebuilder, faster in best case, have your line checked to be certain05:29
tadthebuilderwell05:29
lcuki must go tho05:29
tadthebuilderi probably wont do it05:29
tadthebuilderhave a nice night man05:29
lcukgnite folks \o great to see you tad05:30
Robot101night lcuk05:30
tadthebuildergreat to see you too05:30
tadthebuilderhope your enjoying your job05:30
tadthebuildersee ya around05:30
lcuknite Robot101 GeneralAntilles etc \o05:30
* GeneralAntilles throws paper wads at lcuk on his way out the door.05:30
tadthebuilderim out too actually05:30
tadthebuildernice seeing yall again. if anyone has an extra n900 send it my way05:30
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tadthebuilderill be around from time to time05:31
tadthebuilderbye.05:31
RXrenesis8ok, camping works05:31
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GeneralAntillesThat was my strategy.05:32
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crashanddiesecond PS3 crash in a few hours05:45
GeneralAntillesWoo05:45
crashanddiebtw, I think the last upgrade actually helped05:46
crashanddieI got a full 2 days of very strong usage out of the N90005:46
crashanddie(roughly 8 hours of mp3, 3 hours of browsing, 1 hour of phone and email)05:46
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ali1234playing mp3s is peanuts these days, with dsp and stuff05:50
crashanddiedsp is not used for mp3 IIRC05:50
ali1234oh realy? that sucks...05:50
crashanddiebecause the cost of keeping the DSP on (from a battery perspective) was higher than running it on the CPU05:51
ali1234that seems very counter intuitive05:51
ali1234maybe the dsp is just overkill in this case05:51
ali1234i mean, if the dsp would only be 1% utilized by decoding the mp3...05:52
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Flandry_why would they include such an overpowered DSP?05:54
SpeedEvilh26405:55
SpeedEviland friends05:55
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SpeedEvilOf course - the nice way to do it would be to power up the DSP, decode 10M of raw audio, and send it back to sleep.05:55
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Flandry_the dsp does h264?06:02
luke-jrthe dsp is just an alternate instruction set...06:02
luke-jryou can run whatever decoder you write for it06:02
Flandry_i'm just impressed i guess06:03
Flandry_is that what the NEON thing is for?06:03
luke-jrcrashanddie: what are you talking about DSP on/off? it's not seperate from the CPU06:03
luke-jrFlandry_: no, I think NEON is different06:03
luke-jrNEON is extensions to normal ARM06:03
Flandry_they are separate chips06:03
luke-jrwhereas the "DSP" is more like Jazelle and such06:03
luke-jrFlandry_: they aren't on N8x0 at least...06:03
ali1234DSP on/off is very much different from CPU on/off06:04
Flandry_i'm just going by the description of the OMAP chipset06:04
luke-jrFlandry_: OMAP is a single chip06:04
Flandry_talks about GPU, DSP and CPU like they are separate entities06:04
ali1234that's how ARM SoCs achieve such low power usage06:04
luke-jrFlandry_: they're logically different06:05
luke-jrlike, you can have 3 partitions on a HD that are logically all different disks, but really only one disk06:05
Flandry_but obviously they can be powered independently06:05
luke-jrnot exactly the same, since they're all the same type, but similar06:06
Flandry_otherwise it would be pointless06:06
derfThey _are_ powered independently.06:06
luke-jrFlandry_: afaik the point of the DSP is merely marketting06:06
ali1234actually it's more like having a whole x86 motherboard etched into one chip06:06
GAN900_luke-jr, they can . . .06:06
derfHeck, CPUs often have individual logical units powered independently.06:06
luke-jrGAN900_: ?06:06
GAN900_What derf said.06:06
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GAN900NEON is SIMD06:07
Flandry_ah06:07
GAN900Like SSE or AlitVec06:07
derfExcept a heck of a lot better than SSE.06:07
Flandry_does Gcc not target it by default?06:07
GAN900Right06:07
luke-jrthe DSP instruction set is not general-purpose AFAIK06:08
luke-jrit might not fit within GCC's assumptions06:08
GAN900Flandy_, N900 uses the DSP for video stuff.06:08
GAN900Audio is ARM side since it's cheaper to power one thing than two.06:09
GAN900Pulse is probably a contributing factor there.06:09
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ali1234the ARM core isn't powerful enough to decode h264...06:10
ali1234(real time)06:10
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derfluke-jr: Yes it is.06:11
Flandry_so what does it take to get gcc to use NEON instructions?06:11
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derfNo, it's pretty radically different from the type of CPUs gcc normally targets.06:11
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derfgcc could probably be made to target it, but without significant work the code it generated would be ungodly slow.06:12
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GAN900ali1234, yes it is.06:13
ali1234GAN900: ok, for a specific subset of h264 it is06:14
derfGAN900: Depends on the resolution.06:14
GAN900Depends on the size and you decoder, though06:14
derfAnd bitrate.06:14
GAN900Of course.06:14
derfYou aren't doing 1080p on a 600 MHz ARM.06:14
GAN900Duh06:14
derfOf course, you aren't really doing that on a 430 MHz DSP, either.06:14
ali1234huh, that zoom2 demo is fake then?06:15
GAN900Anybody tried the NEON decoder on the N900 yet?06:15
derf"The" NEON decoder?06:15
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GAN900Somebody in #beagle was working on something.06:18
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crashanddieI'm in the wrong industry06:29
GeneralAntillesDumbass.06:30
crashanddieUbisoft scored $300M in the first 24 hours of the launch of Assassin's Creed 206:30
crashanddieAnd some con artists managed to steal $9M in 30 minutes from RBS06:30
GeneralAntillesOh, christ, this guy needs to fuck off. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385785#post38578506:30
crashanddieSo respectively, they made as much as my company in 6 years and one quarter, excepted it's 24 hours and 30 minutes06:31
Flandryi've had him blocked for a month06:31
Flandryonly time i've ever done that on a forum06:31
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crashanddiechristaexport?06:32
crashanddieThe religious fanatic?06:32
KenYoungIs this channel used for discussions of the N900, or does it have a separate IRC channel?06:32
crashanddieKenYoung, any Maemo related discussions are welcome06:33
KenYoungcrashanddie, Thanks!06:33
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johnxmorning all06:44
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LurkerXXX__I wish we knew when phones would be readily available.  I'm getting tempted to drive to chicago.06:59
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johnxfrom where?06:59
LurkerXXX__cleveland07:00
johnxthough, aren't they only available in chicago for people who had a preorder?07:00
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GeneralAntilleskrisse on another user rampage.07:00
johnxhey GeneralAntilles. saw your post on deals.woot.com :)07:00
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LurkerXXX__apparently they filled a few orders made only a day or two before the pickup07:00
johnxhuh07:01
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I was sad to see the DROID way up on the popularity list.07:01
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johnxeh, it's not a *bad* phone really, but the n900 is better even when comparing just the hardware07:01
GeneralAntillesAndroid's more evil than the iPhone in my efes.07:02
GeneralAntilless/efes/eyes/07:02
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Android's more evil than the iPhone in my eyes.07:02
johnxwow. might want to get that iphone pulled out of your eye ... O_o07:02
LurkerXXX__Depends on what you want.  The droid fits on a picket easier, and I wouldn't miss the tv-out.07:02
johnxso anyways, I've been fighting deals.woot.com's rss feed, trying to get yahoo pipes to eat it so I can run some serious filtering07:02
johnxLurkerXXX__, have you compared the keyboards to each other?07:03
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I loved the invite email.07:03
johnxI love woot's writing in general07:03
LurkerXXX__johnx: yeah, I hate the droid keyboard. no feel.07:03
LurkerXXX__but the capacitive vs resistive screen is nice.  It's all trade-offs.07:03
johnxyeah. how's the droid's camera?07:03
LurkerXXX__Now if I could get a droid phone running maemo, that might be nice.07:04
LurkerXXX__ok, its slow.07:04
GeneralAntillesLurkerXXX__, not likely.07:04
LurkerXXX__but I haven't seen how fast the N900's is, cause I can't get my hands on one.07:04
johnxGeneralAntilles, I wouldn't rule it out entirely. if we get more disenfranchised android owners, it might happen07:04
GeneralAntillesI can't believe christexaport's arrogance.07:05
johnxyou must be new to the internet07:05
Flandrylol07:06
LurkerXXX__GeneralAntilles: they have pretty similar hardware.  I wonder how difficult it would be for those in the know.07:06
GeneralAntillesHe sounds like a telecommunications company PR person talking about municipal internet access.07:06
Flandryjust block him and be done with it07:06
johnxah, a new topic07:06
johnxis he for or against municipal wifi?07:06
johnx(though if he's against I probably fall out on the same side as him for different reasons)07:06
GeneralAntilles"Oh man, here's this thread with a proposal that could really help a lot of people stay in touch with what's going on in Maemo, I'm just going to take a giant dump on it then go to bed."07:06
GeneralAntilleshttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385785#post38578507:07
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I'm again municipal WiFi, but not for the reasons the telecommunications companies usually quote. ;)07:07
* GeneralAntilles sighs.07:08
GeneralAntillesI really need to block Talk at the router.07:08
GeneralAntilleshttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385818#post385818 Shit like that is just energy-killing.07:08
johnxwow. that's fantastically arrogant. :D that should go over real well07:08
johnxGeneralAntilles, a little diplomacy might help ... :/07:10
Flandryi recommend the six-shooter07:10
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it never works.07:10
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I've tried that approach many times in the past and usually people like geneven just end up coming out of the woodwork to stick knives in your kidneys.07:11
GeneralAntillesNot worth my time, certainly.07:11
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johnxyeah, but when whackjobs come out of nowhere to cut you down when you've been really diplomatic, it makes *them* look like idiots07:12
Flandrytalk needs a finer filter for new posts07:13
GeneralAntillesjohnx, sadly, lots of the people on Talk really dig that sort of stuff.07:13
johnxfor the side bar?07:13
Flandryyeah07:13
Flandryi don't care about the million different threads in sales07:14
johnxyeah, I think it shouldn't pull from off-topic or threads that have 1) more than N votes -and- 2) a score below M07:14
johnxyeah, skipping sales might be nice as well07:14
Flandryha yeah07:14
johnxGeneralAntilles, just remember, that you don't always need to be the one setting the record straight. sometimes it's ok just to let the drunks have a good old fashioned barfight, then take their wallets when they're unconscious and what were we talking about?07:15
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, I moved on to that a few months ago, but it's still disheartening to read posts like that (even when you're not participating).07:16
johnxfor sure, which is the other feature I want on talk: "permanently ignore thread"07:16
Flandrythey should just give General superr mod powers and discretion to delete and ban at will07:17
Flandrythat would shake things up07:17
johnxsometimes reading talk is like watching the nightly fox news: death, starvation, what are the celebrities doing today? and sports07:17
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GeneralAntillesFlandry, I've turned that down already.07:19
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Flandrypity07:23
RXrenesis8seriously07:23
johnxGeneralAntilles, ah c'mon. We could call it the 'great cleansing' and have people sacrifice goats and everything. it'd be fun07:24
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, kill the Talk datacenter with fire.07:24
johnxjeez, work with me on terminology here: 'the purifying flame'07:24
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GeneralAntillesCower before me! I shall bring down the flaming wrath of the Cabal and cleanse this stinking cesspool of noobishness henceforth!07:26
johnxgetting into the spirit at least07:26
johnxmake sure you get sign-off from marketing and PR before making any statements. kthx :)07:26
GeneralAntillesHis Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles hath spoken!07:27
derfI guess you got a promotion?07:28
GeneralAntillesMaemo Summit 200807:28
GeneralAntillesI blame timsamoff.07:28
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johnxanyone else in the puget sound area?07:42
johnxlooks like there's an N900 meetup in redmond, right on the microsoft campus on tuesday (yeah I know, if this was a movie it'd totally be some kind of trap...)07:44
GeneralAntillesIt's a trap!07:44
GeneralAntillesYou're going to capture everybody and turn them into WinMob fans.07:44
johnxyeah, that's why I'm trying to find someone else who is going to watch my back...07:44
luke-jrhow dare he07:44
GeneralAntillesYou guys are going to be on Microsoft commercials! O_o07:44
luke-jris there an op here to minimize the damage?07:44
johnxeh, at least I can appease them by saying how much I like microsoft hardware07:46
GeneralAntillesWont save you07:47
johnxwell, if I'm going down, I'm taking them with me :>07:48
johnxthe guy has an HD2 to show off as well07:48
johnxanyone know any zero-day exploits against winmo? <_<07:48
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GeneralAntilleslol07:48
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johnxseriously though. it should be a lot of fun. I think I should setup a lightweight http server to run off my N900 and serve pages over t-mo's 3G07:52
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johnxjeez. omweather just keeps getting better and better08:00
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auenfjohnx, but will t-mo give you a non-nat interface?08:30
auenfor better yet, static ip?08:30
johnxnope08:30
johnxnot for $10/month08:30
johnxI'll do ssh reverse tunneling I think08:30
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auenf(my phone has a static ip with no ports blocked/filtered)08:30
jaemmorning folks08:30
johnxauenf, that's incredible. which carrier/plan?08:30
johnxmornin' jaem08:30
auenfaustralia08:30
jaemauenf, indeed08:30
jaemwow08:30
jaemthat's amazing08:31
auenfits a mobile broadband sim with voice calling enabled08:31
auenfand get a free voip DID with it08:31
jaemwow08:31
auenfhttp://www.exetel.com.au/residential-hspa-pricing.php08:31
auenfWM A or WM B08:31
auenfno MMS tho08:32
mzawant my damn device.08:32
johnxthat's not a bad deal really08:32
auenf(re-sold thru optus, and cause its a wireless broadband service, it doesnt have access to the special access point to connect to the MMS server, so if i get a MMS, i get this: http://sc.nitroware.net/i/brokenMMS.png )08:32
jaemhttp://imagebin.ca/img/64z9xm.png :)08:33
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johnxI think mine's $10/month, but if they figure out which phone I'm really using it with they might make me move to a higher plan08:33
jaemjohnx, what if I work for your carrier? O_o08:34
jaem...I don't, for the record08:34
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johnxjaem, I'm not too worried08:37
jaem:P08:37
johnxi'm not violating tos I think08:37
jaemaww... Kopete's Pipes plugin doesn't work with CowSay :(08:38
jaemdoes anyone here use the most recent SDK VM?08:38
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mzawow, was that a split?08:47
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half_of_jaemyes08:47
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RXrenesis8holoy crap08:48
jaemsorry... probably shouldn't do that :S08:48
mzabeen so long08:49
mzai missed irc08:49
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sgbirchJust listening to devorak pointing out that Nokia should have gone with android.09:20
johnxheh. didn't he go away yet?09:20
sgbirchHe was supportive of Nokia09:21
sgbirchBut I have to agree maemo vs android is betamax ve vhs09:22
jaem?!09:22
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jaemgive me a real Linux distro over some crazy Java stack any day09:23
sgbirchWhy doesnt Nokia make n900 rum android apps?09:23
jaembesides, Google owns enough of my life as it is09:23
jaemsgbirch, it's not quite that simple09:23
johnxsgbirch, should be possible, but it wouldn't run them as well as a native android device09:23
johnxstill might be doable if you needed that one killer app09:23
jaemsgbirch, Android has the Linux kernel, yes, but it's not "Linux" in the conventional (misused) sense09:23
jaemI'd much rather be able to hack on C++ in a terminal on my phone09:24
jaem:)09:24
sgbirchBut since it is the linux kernel ...09:24
johnxsgbirch, this will give you some background on what's required: http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/09:25
sgbirchSeems like it wouldnt be too difficult09:25
johnxit's not exactly trivial, but it should be doable09:25
ali1234"It turns out that Android uses it own version of libc and all binaries get linked against that. This causes a problem when a libc already exists on your system."09:27
ali1234wat?09:27
johnxyeah09:27
sgbirchIt would really help see the n90009:27
sgbirchSell09:27
ali1234that is completely untrue09:27
microlithdoesn't it use uClibc?09:27
johnxmaybe, but what does android have in terms of apps that we don't?09:27
ali1234android uses uclibc and guess what - it can easily coexist with glibc09:28
sgbirchMarket acceptance09:28
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sgbirchEspecially in US where nokia isnt well known09:28
jaemsgbirch, maybe, but Android apps probably wouldn't integrate well09:30
jaemand intentions aside, it might end up looking (on the face of it) like Nokia is saying "we can't do this properly ourselves, so we're doing it improperly with someone else's stuff"09:31
jaemI'm not saying it's bad09:31
johnxsooo, you think it would be a good idea for them to spend lots of man-months on half-assed android-app coexistence?09:31
sgbirchN900 is powerful enough to run android in a chroot09:31
jaembut just that it would probably look bad on their part09:31
jaemand wouldn't be worth the effort, as johnx said09:31
johnxsgbirch, not as fast as the droid can run android apps, and it's (by various accounts) the first android phone to not be terribly sluggish09:31
microlithI could see there being a port of it at some point, but it won't be official09:31
jaemwhich ARM toolchain does the N900 use?  -arm7?09:31
sgbirchI think it would be a good community initiative. Like wine09:32
microlithjohnx: it's the first android phone to use better than an ARM11 CPU09:32
jaemsgbirch, granted, but it will probably stay like wine09:32
johnxsgbirch, yup, so you better get working on it :)09:32
jaemI don't hink Nokia cares/wants to do that09:32
Pavlovthe droid is nice09:32
ali1234wine is pretty awful - nothing works well in it except popular games (ie source engine)09:33
sgbirchJohnx: i may do just that09:33
ali1234and they've been working on it for 15 years09:33
sgbirchYou missed the point about wine, it was an example of a user iniative.09:34
sgbirchAn android port would be much easier than wine09:35
johnxa community effort ... for nokia marketing reasons?09:35
sulxwell wine isn't awful. its better than nothing09:35
johnxmost of the android stuff is reimplentations of stuff available on other platforms except for a couple real gems09:35
ali1234but it's worse than running windows in virtualbox for almost everything09:35
jaemsgbirch, ali1234, what's even crazier (albeit cool) is the LUK project09:35
sgbirchNo ... The itch we scratch is access to android appa09:35
jaemit's like Wine for the kernel09:36
jaemO_o09:36
sgbirchApps09:36
johnxseems easier/more productive to just do native maemo "ports" ...09:36
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ali1234yeah. surely if you wanted to actually get access to a large number of apps, you should make a iphone compatibility layer?09:37
johnxthough the reality is the best answer is usually in the grey area: just like a fair number of things are based on libwine09:37
sgbirchIphone is closed source .. Much more difficult09:38
johnxthere's an objective-c iphone-like layer for maemo already09:39
sgbirchAnyone know how to turn off the auto uppercase feature of the n810. Hate it09:39
johnxdavlik without all the low-level kernel hacks might be a lot more reasonable09:39
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johnxie, require some small source modification to the apps09:40
jaemsgbirch, same - it's in Settings09:40
jaemunder Text Settings09:40
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Xisdibikis lcuk awake by any chance?10:03
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JaffaMorning, all10:13
johnxmornin' Jaffa10:13
* Jaffa sees christaexport's reply to his Maemo Weekly News proposal and finds the irony hilarious10:13
Jaffahttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385558 FWIW10:14
johnxyeah, that was pretty fantastic10:14
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lbtJaffa: ROFL10:34
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XisdibikJaffa: isnt he a symbionite anyways?10:36
XisdibikJaffa: and morning ;)10:36
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JaffaXisdibik: Ah, no; now he's an expert on all things Maemo *cough*10:48
Xisdibiklol10:49
qwerty12Who gives a shit what he thinks? The sad thing is, you're not going to get any volunteers because - in true Talk style - this thread is now going to turn into a war and people will forget what post #1 said10:50
johnxqwerty12, s/talk/forum/ <- fixed it for ya10:51
qwerty12johnx: Sorry, but recently, Talk has become the worst of the worst10:51
timeless_mbpqwerty12: you're accusing forums of having redeeming value?10:51
johnxI think the trick might be small doses or something10:52
timeless_mbpof some drug?10:53
johnxI keep thinking about things like splitting the forum into hacker and new-user or something, but I don't see any way that wouldn't turn the non-hacker forum into a slum10:53
johnxtimeless_mbp, of talk.m.o10:53
timeless_mbpyeah, but does it take a drug (like a muscle relaxant) to enable you to tolerate it?10:53
johnxnah, just a certain masochistic tendency10:55
Xisdibikid volunteer if i had any idea how to do it :D10:59
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Xisdibikid fall into that "new user" non hacker group tho10:59
Xisdibikthe ones that are slummin ;)11:00
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johnxthe problem is that there is a small number of vocal people who don't search and have a feeling of entitlement11:02
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Termanayello11:03
johnxallo11:03
jaemhi11:04
mavhcyou're not allowed to post a second time if someone flags your post as something easily found in search, until you reply to your own post with the answer11:04
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johnxI have mixed feelings about trying to solve social problems with technical solutions11:06
jaemmavhc, I almost like it, but it would annoy the heck out of a lot of people11:06
jaemand then they'd just flame their own thread11:06
jaemjohnx, I know... that's kind of the issue11:06
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johnxthe real life analog is the cocktail party thought, right?11:06
* Xisdibik has mixed feelings about feelings ;)11:07
jaemthe imminent inrush of noobs on a forum is always scary, and most technological limits alienate people through unusability or anger11:07
mavhcyou'd have to distinguish between those who can't search and those who won't search11:07
johnxat some point the signal/noise drops below a usable threshold and some smallish group of like-minded people go outside to discuss whatever they were talking about11:07
jaemjohnx, yeah... and that's sad when it happens11:07
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mavhcwhat you need is a constant flow of ex newbs helping out the new newbs11:07
timeless_mbpjaem: i'm going to try to post an updated deb sometime today11:08
timeless_mbpgot time to play w/ it?11:08
johnxmavhc, right, and that's my biggest reason for not really entertaining the thought of splitting11:08
mavhcyou need the people who haven't answered the same question 100 times to answer that question11:08
johnxyup11:09
jaemtimeless_mbp, possibly11:09
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jaemtomorrow's a bit tight, but I'll try to take a look11:09
jaemhaving a bit of a code sprint with a friend11:09
johnxmavhc, or you need to pay people to answer the same question a million times11:09
jaemtimeless_mbp, we have two weeks or so to deliver this project11:09
jaem>_<11:09
jaemnot enough time11:09
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jaemand everybody's miscommunicating11:09
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jaemI think we all are in agreement, but everyone misunderstands everyone else and thinks we're not11:10
timeless_mbpooh, you could be in finland11:10
jaemtimeless_mbp, oh?11:10
jaemthat bad?11:10
jaem:P11:10
timeless_mbpstandard operating procedure11:10
jaemrofl11:10
mavhcask everyone to summerise the current state of play11:10
timeless_mbps/summerise/summarize/11:10
jaemjohnx, I wonder how well a hybrid chat/forum model would work11:11
timeless_mbpmaking things like summer is like handing out rose-colored glasses11:11
jaemsomething where you could have publicly viewable discussions, with comments, but the actual dicussion is limited to invited users11:11
jaemmore like IM/blog/forum mashup11:11
JaffaXisdibik: If you read large swathes of tmo, and can distinguish something new & intefresting over something trollish/old; you're perfect11:11
jaemso if I think your comment is valuable, I invite you into the discussion11:11
jaemif not, then I can just ignore it11:11
Jaffajaem. IBM had an old o,protoype thing like that11:11
jaemand the discussion itself stays clean11:11
ali1234yeah that sounds great, it really won't exclude people even more than the current system11:12
johnxjaem, that sounds a little too ... stilted? kind of awkward11:12
Jaffajaem: and I suppose that'*s kinda what Google Wave is.11:12
Jaffa(bloody N900 kb)11:12
XisdibikJaffa: id probably hit that 50% of the time, but i could learn with practice,  i dont swathe through large amounts of tmo.  that might change once i have my n900 though :D11:12
mavhcwell, it might be once they have better permissions11:12
JaffaXisdibik: Read most of IRC?11:12
jaemJaffa, that's actually kind of what I was thinking of, only with public comments11:13
XisdibikI have it open alot, im not actively reading each line, but if im using my laptop i try to catch most of what people say11:13
jaemthe comments could be voted up or down, and optionally be hidden11:13
jaembut the difference is that everyone could view the discussion11:13
jaemand have their say11:13
JaffaThere're some old hands like qwerty12 who read a *lot* of tmo and IRC and would perfect contributors.11:13
jaembut they could only directly contribute if they had something valuable to say11:14
jaeme.g. allow the noise, but separate it from the signal11:14
Jaffajaem: How would that be decided? Previous history? (if so, how did they get that history ;-))11:14
johnxthat sounds like a recipe for favoritism...11:14
jaeminvitation from someone in the discussion11:14
jaemjohnx, it does11:14
jaemI was just throwing it out there11:15
mavhcvote up/down11:15
jaemit has all sorts of problems11:15
jaemmavhc, yes, with mods11:15
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jaembut it's an interesting idea11:15
johnxin terms of managing 500+ post discussions, slashdot is a good model11:15
Xisdibikthen, i volunteer qwerty12 for the job ;)11:15
mavhcslashdot is ahead of the curve with moderation, because they've been at it longer11:15
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Jaffajaem: interesting idea indeed11:16
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jaemJaffa, once you had a history, maybe, but initially you'd be "promoted" from the comment thread by votes/mods/current members of the discussion11:16
johnxyup, they've been handling those 500+ post, various-intelligence level, no-two-people-who-know-each-other situations very well11:16
mavhcseems like every discussion system starts with "everyone can post", then "ops block users", then "vote up/down", then...11:16
jaemmavhc, yeah11:16
jaemand there is no perfect solution11:16
jaemhas anyone seen an actual implementation of what I'm proposing?11:16
JaffaIt sounds, in practicality, a lot like Slashdot11:17
timeless_mbpyep11:17
mavhcbut you're recognising the person, not the post11:17
jaemJaffa, hmm... except that there's no main thread11:17
timeless_mbpeverything in forums evolves to be like slashdot11:17
mavhcyou want to +v people statically11:17
JaffaSignal separated from noise by mods, getting consistenly promoted gets you karma which raises your default post level11:17
jaemI'm thinking of separating the signal from the noise, but allowing the noise - so that people can flame, but you don't have to see it11:17
Jaffamavhc: /.'s karma does that11:17
johnxtimeless_mbp, that's becuase slashdot is really a moderated mailing list with a web front-end11:18
jaemand the people who aren't flaming aren't going to invite flamers in to the conversation11:18
mavhcJaffa: so it's a combination of both?11:18
johnx6 months ago I would have said we don't have the numbers to do /. style meta-moderation, but I'm beginning to change my mind :)11:18
JaffaOf course, /. has a limited number of new threads each day.11:18
johnxJaffa, they also have firehose now11:19
Jaffajohnx: we might not need M2 yet, but straight "crowd-sourced" moderation may be practicable11:19
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Jaffajohnx: true, I've looked at it once I think11:19
mavhcbut in general it's more of a "interesting comments" system than a "support forum"11:20
johnxand for gods' sake: real threads11:20
jaemjohnx, yeah11:20
johnxmavhc, but it handles the situation that eventually topics will diverge, and this isn't necessarily bad11:20
* RST38h moos11:20
jaemcomments vs threads is a distinction I'd like to make11:20
johnxbut at the same time it's nice to be able to ignore the people who are talking about something different11:20
RST38hSo, gentlemen, what is the topic of the day? =)11:21
johnxRST38h, comments11:21
RST38htmo?11:21
jaemRST38h, and threads11:21
jaemyes11:21
timeless_mbpspam11:21
jaemand eggs11:21
RST38hYou know what I want...11:21
mavhcwithout threads and the ability to ignore sub threads, and basically be usenet, you can't cope11:21
RST38hA generalized filter interface, with a bunch of obscure stuff11:21
johnxheh. this solves it: make the turing test a quiz on maemo :)11:21
mavhcusenet with karma11:21
RST38hBut among this stuff, I owould like ot have "filter by user's account age" ;)))11:21
ali1234i'd like that too, but i'd probably use it the opposite way you do11:22
RST38hIf you hide it among other filtering options, it is less likely to raise segregation alarms among some issues-waving people11:22
mavhcall forum software should be a web frontend to an nntp system11:22
RST38hali1234: It is fine, as long as we are both satisfied :)11:22
RST38hmavhc: Why not move to google groups then?11:23
RST38hjohnx: Somebody already proposed requiring a valid tablet MAC address for some forums =)11:23
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qwerty12RST38h: That's fucking brilliant, but make it an IMEI number, instead11:24
timeless_mbpheh11:24
johnxalso: we *shouldn't* check for duplicated MACs. anyone who went to the trouble of tracking down an Nxx0 MAC address "passes the test"11:25
mavhcthat'll work for about 10 mins11:25
RST38hqwerty: This will limit access to people with N900s. Don't wanna do that11:27
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johnxactually, I think we should take a page from google and their captcha system11:27
ali1234it's an interesting dilemma that you have11:27
ali1234when somebody asks for an advanced feature the response is "we can't do that, think of the USERS"11:27
qwerty12RST38h: Well, to the N900 fora then. That's where a lot of the idiots can be found11:27
ali1234but the users are the one set of people you're not actually interested in listening to11:27
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RST38hjohnx: I have seen a math forum that required computing an integral to join11:28
ali1234and i quote "We don't want 95% of users to report bugs. Most of them are woefully under-qualified to do so"11:28
RST38hali1234: you are missing the point11:28
RST38hali1234: like, totally, man =)11:28
timeless_mbpali1234: where's that from?11:28
johnxtimeless_mbp, GeneralAntilles :)11:28
ali1234timeless_mbp: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=385818&postcount=4311:29
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timeless_mbpgan++11:29
RST38hFirst of all, someone without a tablet (n8x0, n900, etc) is NOT a tablet user.11:29
RST38hSecondly, someone who only writes to forums but never really reads them is of no interest to other forum members11:30
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RST38hmoo wazd11:31
ali1234there are plenty of people with 4 digit post counts who don't seem to actually read what other people write11:31
RST38hExactly11:32
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ali1234the problem is that a lot of them are supposed pillars of the community11:33
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timeless_mbpali1234: do i know them?11:33
RST38hali1234: can I have a list? =)11:34
ali1234i have to wonder, if the forums are so bad, why do you all spend so much time on them?11:34
ali1234maybe you should accept them for what they are, and move on11:34
timeless_mbpali1234: i don't spend any time on them11:34
timeless_mbpi don't even know where they are :)11:35
RST38hactually, a lot of us do not11:35
RST38hNot any more, anyway11:35
timeless_mbpRST38h: some of us are slow learners11:35
JaffaRST38h's point is valid. I skimmed /some/ threads yesterday for the first time in (literally) weeks.11:37
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qwerty12Xisdibik, Jaffa: Posted my propsal to join. Hopefully, others will follow suit and not engage in the silly (and pointless, as it is going to happen, anyway) discussion11:38
JaffaBTW, anyone know which blog christaexport is involved in?11:39
Jaffaqwerty12: Ta muchly :)11:39
qwerty12Jaffa: maemo-freak, I believe11:39
Xisdibikyea think what thats right11:39
JaffaURL?11:39
Xisdibiki remember him talking about symbian-freak and the maemo alternative coming out or that was out11:39
Stskeepswww.maemo-freak.com probably11:39
Stskeepswhich looks a bit amateurish11:40
Xisdibikthink that was stolen by another company11:40
ali1234it's linked on his sig11:40
Xisdibikthey had to use another11:40
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wazdRST38h: heya11:40
wazdheya all11:40
Xisdibikguess not11:40
Xisdibikits in his link11:40
Xisdibikheya wazd11:40
qwerty12Hiya, wazd11:40
qwerty12Does Maemo-Freak.com even want to load for anyone?11:41
qwerty12Ah, there it is11:41
JaffaXisdibik: ta, when I'm at a computer I'll compare the brevity, frequent, breadth I'm proposing with the infrequent, in-depth, narrow articles most blogs write11:42
* jaem is heading offline, and then to bed at some point11:44
jaemtimeless_mbp, send me a PM when you post the package, pleas11:44
Jaffajaem: g'night!11:44
* timeless_mbp nods11:44
jaemI'll still be around, but if I leave #maemo open, I'll be up all night :P11:44
jaemcheers11:44
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XisdibikJaffa: :) oki dokey11:45
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johnxhuh, I seem to have a weird tendency to "end" threads13:16
johnxor maybe I'm just replying to threads that have already run their course?13:16
swc|666johnx, a thread killer are u?13:16
qwerty12johnx: It's just you :p13:16
johnxswc|666, johnx, destroyer of threads. has a certain ring ...13:17
swc|666johnx, no worries, i seem to have that effect on bottles of beer13:17
johnxqwerty12, well, just as long as it wasn't just me responding late13:17
qwerty12:)13:18
Dantonichi guys13:26
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johnxallo Dantonic13:26
Dantonichey johnx do you use vnc?13:27
johnxvery occasionally13:27
Dantonicwhat OS do you run?13:27
Dantonictrying to figure out how to configure the server on my desktop... so I can view it on the NIT13:27
Dantonicon ubuntu 9.0413:27
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johnxx11vnc --shared --forever13:28
johnxdon't remember if it's -- or just -13:28
Dantonicwait huh? what does that mean? --shared --forever13:28
Dantonicis that a command?13:28
johnxjust run exactly what I typed13:28
johnxif you want to know more: man x11vnc13:29
Dantonicgotta install x11vnc first no?13:29
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Dantonicbeen trying to use "Vino"13:29
Dantonicthe remote desktop that comes with ubuntu13:29
Dantonicwhat a headache... had it working locally but couldn't get it to work through the internet13:30
Dantonicnow it just stopped working all together13:30
DantonicI'll try x11vnc13:30
Dantonicok so I started vnc like you said...13:31
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Dantonicwithout password johnx ?13:31
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DantonicI guess I can set that13:31
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johnxset it if you want13:31
johnxI suggest not setting it for the test13:31
Dantonicso now in vnc viewer how do I access it?13:32
Dantonicjust the local ip?13:32
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DantonicI"d like to figure out how to access it locally and remotely13:32
alteregoI'm going to aim at submitting a package as day into extras until I've finished doing all of mine.13:32
alteregoTough I'm pushing two into testing now.13:34
alterego~though13:34
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Dantonicjohnx,  sorry how do I access the remote desktop?13:35
Dantonicthe ip is not working13:35
johnxwhat app are you using on your tablet?13:36
alteregomulticast dns ftw :P13:36
Dantonicvnc viewer13:36
johnxdo you need to specify the 'screen' number? might be 013:37
johnxmight need to put it after the ip address like 192.168.1.254:013:37
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Dantoniccould not connect...13:38
DantonicI think I did somethign to the tablet earlier13:38
Dantonicmaybe entered a command I shouldn't have13:38
DantonicI entered a ssh -L 5900:user:5900 host@ip13:39
Dantonicnot sure what that did13:39
* SpeedEvil checks email for the first time today, and finds a shipping invoice! (For a $2000 plasma TV that I diddn't order, that is addressed to a fictitious individual.) Oh well.13:39
Dantonicouch SpeedEvil13:39
johnxDantonic, is that ssh still running?13:40
Dantonicew idk I'm rebooting right now13:40
DantonicI closed the terminal13:40
Dantonicquestion when I close the terminal for x11vnc it closes the server connection?13:41
johnxyes13:41
Dantonicok13:41
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* alterego hopes someone has packages screen up for maemo513:41
alterego~packaged13:41
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peter-khi13:41
alteregoYes, yes they have :) Nice13:42
peter-kso many people in this room13:42
Stskeepsyeah, big community :P13:43
peter-knice to meet you alterego13:43
alteregoSo, screen + VPN on the tablet ..13:43
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johnxallo peter-k. what brings you here?13:43
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Dantonicbah nothing...13:44
peter-kwhat do you mean alterego?13:44
peter-ki have nothing to do now so i am here johnx13:44
alteregoI'm just coming up with some ideas.13:44
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alteregoWhilst packaging up some apps.13:44
Dantonicanyone run ubuntu?13:45
Dantonicrunning 9.10? how is it any problems?13:45
alteregoI'm not having any problems with ubuntu 9.10 amd6413:46
johnxDantonic, no problems here. have it on like 4 machines or so13:46
Dantoniccool I have 9.04 on an amd64... and its a shitfest13:46
alteregoYeah, I've got it on 4 hardware machines and in a few VM's. :P13:46
RST38hGet a real Intel ;)13:46
DantonicI might just upgrade13:47
alteregoHeh13:47
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johnxworks here on my a64 3000+ but then again, 9.04 worked too13:48
johnxonly problem I had was my craptastic pci wifi card13:48
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RST38hPeople reported some weird problems with AMDs over the last year13:48
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RST38hWhat exactly is the problem with SDK not running on AMDs?13:49
RST38hBad QEmu?13:49
alteregoWell,I'm not running it on an AMD.13:49
alteregoCore2Duo here.13:49
Dantoniclet me do a quick backup13:49
johnxI wish maemo sb would use a newer qemu....like one that worked13:51
RST38hEnabling no-execute feature should probably break QEmu...13:51
RST38hjohnx: there is a working quemu? :)13:51
johnxRST38h, I'm chrooted into an arm ubuntu install doing mer work13:52
RST38hOn a real ARM? =)13:52
johnxheh13:52
RST38hOr transparent QEmu ARM?13:52
johnxtransparent. the files in the chroot are armel ELFs. the host machine is my athlon 6413:53
RST38hAha, so it works after all13:53
johnxyeah, works just fine13:53
RST38hWell, NX stuff is optional anyway, so either it is turned off or QEmu somehow routes around it13:53
johnxit acts as an interpreter, same way python or sh would13:54
alteregoTthe "products" sesction in a users' karma oesn't take into account extras?13:55
RST38hjohnx: QEmu is supposed to be a binary translator13:56
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Dantonichmm I read there's a possible bug with the upgrade13:56
RST38halterego: Only takes into account proper Extras, no -Testing13:56
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Dantonicupgrade brakes graphic drivers and x, preventing login or startx13:56
RST38hjohnx: I.e. it generates x86 code and then jumps to it, something NX explicitely prevents13:56
alteregoRST38h: Ah, good, cheers :)13:56
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DantonicI'm gonna burn it to disk just in case13:56
Dantonicso i can re-install if I have to13:57
johnxDantonic, which graphics card do you have?13:57
DantonicNvidia 7600GT13:57
johnxdidn't break my 660013:58
johnxor rather my install13:58
RST38hNvidia...mhm.13:58
Dantonicwell I'll burn it to disk just in case13:58
Dantonicdling the image13:58
johnxRST38h, the only sane choice for video on linux :)13:58
RST38hGo try IGD...13:58
* RST38h never had a decent video card in his computers13:58
alteregoDidn't break my 7600GT :)13:58
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johnxRST38h, igd?13:59
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Dantonicman...13:59
RST38hIntel Graphics Device13:59
alteregoWell, if you want performance graphics, the intel cheapo chipsets aren't too bad, I've got a desktop workstation that has an integrated intel and works great for that machine.13:59
RST38hA summary name for all those display adapters Intel ships for tiny laptops14:00
alteregoI much prefer nVideia, though, for performance :)14:00
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Dantonicso does an upgrade change everything... does it replace all configuration files? or it leaves old settings behind?14:00
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johnxDantonic, everything stays the same. if you changed some file in /etc and it wants to replace it, it will ask you first14:01
Dantonicah ok14:01
RST38hjohnx: And before that, I had something produced by the resurrected Trident, right before it went under again14:01
DantonicI want it to change everything fresh... cause I think I messed with the system too much14:01
RST38hAnd before, there was the NeoMedia (?) crap14:01
Dantonicmight have messed something up not knowing what I'm doing14:01
Dantonicso noob14:01
Dantonic305MB of 699MB14:02
johnxhmm, s3 virge -> nvidia 128 (added a voodoo 2) -> matrox g400 -> radeon 7000 -> nv ti4200 -> nv 660014:02
Dantonicgonna go brush my teeth14:02
alteregoHow do you promote to testing?14:03
johnxI learned my lesson on pie in the sky, open source video driver efforts where everything will work real soon now14:03
alteregoMy packages seemed to have gone straight from devel to extras14:03
SpeedEviljohnx: yeah - even open-source, open docs doesn't mean there will be enough interested coders.14:04
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johnxexactly. I decided I'd rather have a working desktop and play with embedded stuff14:05
RST38halterego: maemo.org/packages14:05
RST38hIn Fremantle, they could not go from -devel to extras14:06
alteregoYEah, that was chinook and diablo14:06
alteregoI'm looking at the fremantle one now.14:06
alteregoErm,14:07
alteregoHow do I promote it to testing for fremantle then?14:07
RST38hmaemo.org/packages14:07
alteregoYeah, I'm looking at that right now.14:08
DantonicI just wish on one of my linux installations everything would just work for once...14:08
RST38hYou will need to install Windows for that...14:08
johnxRST38h, you misspelled "just buy a mac and do whatever steve jobs tells you to"14:09
lbtDantonic: with ya....14:09
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alteregoI can't see a clear way to promote these packages :(14:10
Dantoniclol well I don't know if I'll go that far14:10
Dantonicgoing back to windows14:11
Dantonic:P I just have to learn more linux14:11
RST38hjohnx: I am not THAT sadistic14:11
RST38hjohnx: Besides, given its use scenarios, is Mac really a computer or a consumer device for media consumption?14:12
* lbt is mildly amused at the apple/smokers/warranty thing atm14:12
RST38hyea it is cute14:12
johnxRST38h, eh. they nerfed the iphonepod for sure, but macs are still damn nice machines for 80% of users14:12
alteregoWell, I smoke, but I'd never smoke around my laptop or desktop.14:12
alteregoI've seen the damage it can do, computers are delicate complex devices that should be in nice clean environments :)14:13
alteregoHell, I even have air filters on all my workstations just to stop them getting dusty inside.14:13
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johnxheh. my desktop's CPU heatsink had recently swallowed enough dust to make it totally ineffective14:14
Dantonicrofl alterego you should be as careful with your lungs!14:14
RST38hyea14:14
alteregoYeah :/14:14
RST38hthey cannot be replaced too14:14
RST38honce the warranty expires on these...14:15
Dantonic"... delicate complex devices that should be in nice clean environments..."14:15
Dantonic:)14:15
alteregoPresumably I have to be the registered package maintainer to promote the package to testing?14:15
RST38hyea14:15
alteregoShit, I think qwerty still has those rights :/14:15
RST38hwhat package?14:16
alteregoruby1.814:16
RST38hah14:16
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timeless_mbpum14:19
timeless_mbpmy n900 has decided it doesn't want to charge anymore14:20
timeless_mbpanyone have this experience?14:20
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RST38hIf it is connected to a computer, then that is a known bug14:21
alteregotimeless_mbp: my N900 hasn't turned up yet :(14:21
timeless_mbpit's connected to either of 2 official nokia usb chargers14:21
SpeedEvilHave you tried turning it off and on again?14:22
RST38hthen it is doa i guess14:22
alteregoHahah14:22
alteregoHe's scared to turn it off ;)14:22
kurtanhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpmLrz_lSuE14:22
kurtan^^14:22
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: pull battery and try again?14:22
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RST38hremoving battery is recommended though14:23
timeless_mbpStskeeps: or that might kill it permanently!14:23
SpeedEvilpull battery, leave 5 mins, unplugged, reinsert battery, plug in usb14:23
johnxkurtan, that's pretty awesome14:23
RST38hin a fridge!14:23
Stskeepsjohnx: IT crowd :P14:24
johnxI guess I should start watching it14:24
kurtanyes you should14:24
kurtanatleast the first two seasons :p14:24
johnxI just always felt like I got enough IT and Office at work to bother watching the shows14:24
kurtanhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9j80Jkc_A14:24
kurtanthere's one more14:25
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timeless_mbppowering it down + pulling battery worked14:25
kurtanhehe :)14:26
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* RST38h looks at mininova.org idly, wondering what movie he should download14:28
alteregoA legal one I hope :P14:31
RST38hContinue hoping, I guess...14:31
SpeedEvilLegally blonde?14:31
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RST38halterego: not a big fan of court dramas, too14:31
timeless_mbphey14:31
timeless_mbpquick poll14:32
timeless_mbp'Bookmarks' or 'Browser Bookmarks'?14:32
SpeedEvilI'd wonder about web bookmarks.14:32
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RST38hStickies.14:32
alteregoBookmarks14:33
alteregoWho calls a user agent a "browser" any more.14:33
johnxRST38h, zombieland14:33
SpeedEvilIn a genereal context, bookmarks might be placemarks in a book, or file you're reading, or any other navigation checkpoint.14:33
RST38hjohnx: I have got enough of those IRL14:34
SpeedEvilI might want to set a bookmark for January 24th 201014:34
qwerty12_N900alterego: Ouch. Am I still the maintainer? If so, change it.14:34
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alteregoqwerty12_N900: trying :)14:34
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qwerty12_N900:)14:34
alteregoIt's not clear on the protocol of how to do things in this situation, I put in a request, I don't know whether that requires your authorization or someone elses.14:35
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johnx'night all14:36
RST38hg'night14:37
RST38h"...surpassing the Dawn of the Dead remake to become the top-grossing zombie film in history."14:39
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RST38h"top-grossing" sounds vague in this context14:39
RST38hheya javis, lcuk14:39
javispedromorn14:40
lcukhey RST38h and javis lol14:40
alteregoHeh14:40
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lcukhas anyone seriously looked at boot from mmc on n900 yet14:42
javispedrostskeeps did some bootmenu stuff14:42
lcukyeah that will be for mer tho i assume, im wondering what hoops would have to be crossed for a maemo clone to sd14:42
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lcukespecially with /opt being offsite so to speak14:43
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yigalso should I preorder an n900 like everyone else?14:43
RST38hwho knows?14:43
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javispedrowhat kind of question is that14:43
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lcukyigal, if you were dedicated you wouldv preordered someime in 198714:43
alteregoHahah14:43
yigallcuk: you're right I must show my devotion14:44
javispedrolcuk, i dont think /opt will be a problem14:44
lcukjavispedro, it will if the partition is reused14:44
yigalI just purchased a eee t91mt, yay14:44
lcukand both original and clone use the same space14:44
lcukso the startup of the clone must be altered14:44
lcukto mount a different path14:45
javispedroyeah, but just edit the partition mounting script ;)14:45
javispedroer.. that.14:45
* lcuk nods14:45
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lcukin the original n8x0 cloning i dont think you needed to do that, you could just reclone and reclone as many times as you needed14:46
javispedrooh14:46
javispedrotouché.14:46
yigalon the n900 can a chroot be installed and made to work as nicely as it is on the n8x0?14:46
RST38hyuigal: Devoton can only be shown through a sacrifice14:46
RST38hyigal: Preferably human, but a small rodent or two will do too14:47
yigalRST38h: should I burn my G114:47
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RST38hyigal: Goood idea14:47
lcukhang on14:47
javispedrojava!14:47
RST38hOn a sacrificial fire!14:47
lcukyigal, no, your g1 is not a sufficient sacrifice14:47
RST38hjavis: not again =)14:47
lcukwe need something with value14:47
javispedroto the tentacled one!14:47
yigalmy n800 :(14:47
lcuk:O how dare you14:47
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RST38hSacrificing n800 may be considered blasphemy14:48
lcukthats like sacrificing your firstborn14:48
lcukahhh wlel14:48
lcukneeds must14:48
qwerty12_N900lcuk: What's wrong with that, may I ask?14:48
lcukin what way14:48
yigalit's by its nature a horrible sacrifice14:48
lcuklike talking technical and stuff14:48
lcukqwerty im just having a rest from some things ive been looking at14:49
javispedrowell burning n800 kills the kittens hidden between that power maemo's cuteness14:49
lcukand part of looking at them made me think about cloning14:49
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javispedros/between/inside heh14:49
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lcukthe n800 wasnt perfect until nokia added a bacon grill tray (hidden as a keyboard)14:50
yigalI will burn the my desires and purify my body so that when I'm truly ready I will finally be given the n90014:50
L0cutusre14:50
RST38h...and find out it is a phone.14:50
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alteregoI think replacing my gnome-terminal launcher icon with a gnome-terminal+screen launcher icon was probably the coolest idea I've had over the past few weeks.14:51
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: bored?14:52
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yigalget yakuake on maemo14:52
yigaldrop down term, ooh14:52
Stskeepsoh, wait, i can do that on my ow14:52
Stskeepsn14:52
qwerty12_N900yigal: ...until you find out Matchbox sucks... =)14:53
yigalya, matchbox isn't that great14:53
yigalit works though14:53
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yigal(it) sucksless mentality goes a long way14:54
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qwerty12_N900On the N800, telling it to ignore requests to make a dialog modal was awesome, as I could actually still use the tablet while sending/recieving something14:55
qwerty12_N900over Bluetooth14:55
alteregoI'm thinking of turning the N810 into a home automation server, using the RS232 port talking to a MOXA box14:56
alteregoI mean the UART talking via RS232 to a MOXA14:56
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yigalalterego: sounds pretty sweet, would you make a gui for coffee making, blind raising etc.?14:58
alteregoYeah, it'd be a web application though14:58
yigalalterego: sweet, so different devices could in theory control the house14:58
alteregoUsing my semantic services architecture with a RESTful interface on top of ti, then I could write a UI client too ^.^14:58
alteregoAnything with a web browser and wifi access in my house yeah.14:59
alteregoI think I'll start with getting it to turn off/on my workstation, TV/monitor, and my XBox 36015:00
RST38hMegalomania (n.) -- ...15:01
yigalthe n900 is the first tablet which make it very simple to connect an external monitor so awesome, but when will I be with you sweet15:01
RST38hyou can connect external monitor to 5800 for now15:01
alteregoThen I'll get a beagle board to use as a media PC ^.^15:02
yigalya, symbian boo15:03
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crashanddie_connecting to the external monitor is only useful for movies/clips though15:04
crashanddie_I can't see the resolution being nearly good enough for presentations or text editing15:04
* RST38h looks for 4 more N900 users15:04
lcukits perfect for presentations15:04
lcukyou mustv seen many15:05
lcuktext editing at 800*480 is more than people had for years15:05
lcukyou act like people had 1600*1200 always15:05
RST38hTo finally push at least Speccy into Extras15:05
crashanddie_lcuk, I tried connecting it to my TV15:05
ShapeshifterIs there a way to install Qt in the sdk?15:05
* RST38h edited a lot of text at 512x212 =)15:05
crashanddie_lcuk, went to TMO on it15:05
crashanddie_lcuk, my eyes were bleeding after 20 minutes or so15:06
yigal1280x800 is really nice on my 10" screen15:06
lcukRST38h, spec was even lower wasnt it15:06
lcukcrashanddie_, thats as maybe15:06
RST38hlcuk: V9938 could do 512x212 text15:07
RST38hlcuk: TMS9918/9928 could only do 256x19215:07
* lcuk nods15:07
lcuki was amazed when the amiga had low and high res15:07
RST38hOh, Atari had VARIABLE res for ages15:07
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lcukand even tho it flickered like a bitch and made my eyes bleed more than anything nowadays15:08
lcuki was happy15:08
RST38hIn 2600, you had to update the screen with CPU :)15:08
lcukyeah sounds like xv ;)15:08
RST38hOk, what would be the best tmo forum to post a request to test n900 apps?15:08
Shapeshiftermhhh. apt-cache search qt shows some stuff, but I don't see just "qt" and no "pyqt" either.15:09
yigalhow do you like that 1280x800, http://yigalweinstein.info/screen-shot.png , just beautiful15:09
lcukyigal, on what device15:10
lcukand you lost the left hand edge15:10
yigalit's an eee not n900, n900 a bit overkill you're right15:10
qwerty12_N900yigal: Now I hate you; best I ever see all day is 1024x768 :'(15:10
lcukdunno RST38h15:10
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* lbt looks at his 3200x1280 desktop (with GL) and keeps schtum15:11
RST38hlcuk: Posting to Applications15:12
RST38hWould post to Games, but I am afraid to attract any attention from Oct2009ers15:12
lcuklbt, sore neck?15:14
lcukor all on one 4" screen15:14
alteregoWow, got the SDK working really well for once ^.^15:14
lbtI have to get up and walk to see the other edge of the screen :)15:14
lcukhaha15:14
lcukin a different timezone15:14
qwerty12_N900:O15:14
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* SpeedEvil vaguely remembers one micro with a wierd 3 field interlace15:15
lbtnb Bounce on a 10' projector makes you queasy...15:15
SpeedEvilthat 'worked' on most monitors15:15
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crashanddie_lcuk, things are OK when the monitor is made for what you try to do15:16
crashanddie_lcuk, I wouldn't mind working on a 640x480 monitor, provided that it doesn't have pixels the shape of a clusterfuck15:17
* SpeedEvil 's other device has a 480*640 3.5" screen.15:17
lcukcan you draw a clusterfuck and send a pic15:17
alteregoHeh15:17
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yigalis the video card on the n900 restricted to a max of 480x640 or can it use a higher setting on an external monitor?15:18
alterego1920x1200 on my lap[top, perfect for development :P15:18
ShadowJKlol15:18
yigalalterego: lol15:18
Stskeepzvcgomes: 800x48015:18
Stskeepzerr, yigal15:18
lcukyigal, 800*48015:18
lcukor occasionally 480*80015:18
lcukwith aspect locking15:19
yigalnot bad15:19
lcukand i was so surprised when i found out you can drive the n900 video out with different data to the internal lcd15:19
lcukso i had liqbase on one and gtk on the other15:19
* SpeedEvil stabs the 100dpi mafia.15:19
SpeedEvil100dpi is a stupid resolution for screens unless you are at least 1m from them.15:20
ShadowJKdpi becomes a stupid measure too15:20
ShadowJKdpi and pixels, I mean15:20
SpeedEvilTo an extent, yes.15:21
yigaldell is selling the n900 again, but for $600 now15:21
* lcuk would love a floating point vector display15:21
ShadowJKsomething like angle of user's view taken up by a pixel15:21
ShadowJKit'd vary with viewing distance15:21
yigalsounds useful15:22
yigalor really confusing15:22
lcukholographic display15:22
SpeedEvilThe 'right' dpi - IMO - is one where you can display a grid antialiased at any resolution without it being detectable by the eye if the screen has double the resolution15:22
RST38his there any way to create itemized lists in bbcode?15:22
ShadowJKif it  could be measured in realtime, the size of text on the display would become smaller as you brought the device closer, and bigger as you moved it further away15:22
alteregoHeh15:23
lcukShadowJK, no that would be seriously annoying15:23
qwerty12_N900RST38h: You missed the http://talk.maemo.org/maemo/images/editor/insertorderedlist.gif and http://talk.maemo.org/maemo/images/editor/insertunorderedlist.gif buttons in the bar at the top, while posting? :)15:24
lcuki would write in 80pt font "you won 1million dollars" then in 6pt font "to claim enter 383487234273"15:24
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ShadowJKI'm saying pt is a silly measure now :)15:25
lcukyou need to have relative measures within your code15:26
ShadowJKyou'd have to normalize pt to something like "6pt when viewed at 30cm" or whatever15:26
lcukand pt is understood15:26
lcukbut a pt is already something like that15:26
ShadowJKno15:26
blawlhi, does anyone know if lastest maemo support tun/tap device?15:26
blawli cannot find anything with google15:26
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RST38hqwerty: really?15:27
RST38hhmm15:27
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ShadowJKthe pt -> pixels transform depends on dpi, so it's basically a funny unit for what mm or inches expresses15:28
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BabelOhi, any one here can tell me why this give me compile error ? device = g_object_new(LOCATION_TYPE_GPS_DEVICE, NULL);15:30
BabelOi followed the wiki on maemo15:30
BabelOinvalid conversion from 'void*' to 'LocationGPSDevice*'15:31
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lbtso RST38h15:32
lbtI dl'ed Master Gear15:32
lbtand  put Sega_Tween_Game_Gear.zip in ~/MyDocs15:32
lbtI click on it and get a black screen15:32
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timelesshas anyone complained to the ukeyboard guys that they broke their package by using find -exec?15:36
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* timeless is kinda surprised the builder doesn't try to install the package15:38
qwerty12_N900timeless: He doesn't have an N900, and the SDK features the full find15:39
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fragmenthmm, how can I reset the backlight time-out on the N900?15:40
timelesssurely we could augmment the builder w/ a busybox root15:40
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Stskeepzjeremiah: proposal for test of packages for maemian.. does the package -actually- insert into a n900 chroot15:41
Stskeepzshould be fairly easy with qemu arm user emulation :P15:42
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lbtStskeepz: do you mean an install test?15:43
Stskeepzyeah15:43
RST38hqwerty: checked, my editor shows none of these15:44
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* javispedro worries, worries, and worries.15:45
jeremiahStskeepz: Sounds good, I'll write that down15:45
Stskeepzjavispedro: about?15:45
jeremiahBut I don't think it will be as easy as you think :P15:45
qwerty12_N900RST38h: When pressing "New Reply", in the text area, you should get a row of buttons above it. If not, go to http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editoptions and make sure Standard Editor is selected from "Message Editor Interface"15:46
RST38hqwerty: that should be it then...hm15:47
lbtStskeepz: security issues in allowing a chroot with nw connections (builder is, afaik, nw-less chroot)15:47
lbtand you may need that to install deps?15:47
RST38hI had Simple Text Box there15:48
Stskeepzlbt: mm15:48
lbtjust a thought...15:48
lbtfood - back l8r15:48
alteregoAnyone else have issues with the application manageron the SD?15:48
javispedroStskeepz: work and stuff I want to do when I get the n900.15:48
RST38hjavis: I am sure you have seen this, but just in case: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE5AJ1EU2009112015:48
alterego~SDK, it doesn't seem to want to install some packages ...15:48
jeremiahWhy wouldn't you have network?15:48
jeremiahI mean, how would you install depedencies?15:49
javispedrodid anyone make ogles1.1 work in device? I kinda remember my last "remote" test failed.15:49
lcukhehe @ freezing autobuilder during the install test if an app waits for input ;)15:49
SpeedEvilyow. ' "We are selling 400 times more games on iPhone than on Android,"' rst3815:49
jeremiahalterego: What packages is it choking?15:49
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javispedroRST38h: not seen it, but totally expected.15:49
alteregoAnything in 'ruby-defaults' try installing 'irb' from extras-devel15:50
zapdoes Nokia already sell N900? Can't find any place to buy15:50
RST38hjavis: Seen it a few days ago, also did not see it a s a surprise =(15:50
alteregozap: nokia.com15:50
jeremiahI know this is a stupid question, but is ruby already on teh device you are trying to install on?15:50
RST38hzap: Apparently the closest spot is NYC :)15:51
zapalterego: found only tge "preorder now" page15:51
alteregoNope15:51
RST38hzap: Have you signed up for the Nov 24 event btw?15:51
zapno15:51
jeremiahirb is a repl and won't work without ruby15:51
alteregojeremiah: looking at the application manager logs it fails to find repository.maemo.org .. :/15:51
zapI don't like tusovkas :)15:51
jeremiahalterego: Ah, that sucks.15:51
jeremiahwhat does your sources.list look like?15:51
alteregoBut it's only that package ..15:52
jeremiahodd15:52
RST38hzap: Well, neither I nor wazd intead to stay for the party, I guess, but the presentation may be worth taking a look at15:52
RST38hs/intead/intend15:52
alteregohttp://pastie.org/70988815:52
zapRST38h: I will watch it on youtube sitting in my chair :)15:53
jeremiahalterego: Looks like that should work without a problem.15:53
jeremiahalterego: Not sure what is wrong there. :-/15:53
jeremiahRST38h: Are you guys in Barc?15:54
jeremiahAnd by Brac I mean Barcelona15:54
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RST38hzap: sounds like a plan I can use too =)15:54
zapno we're in BRIC :)15:54
RST38hjeremiah: Not me, out of vacation days, low on money15:54
alteregoAnyone got a device they can try it on? :)15:54
javispedronatives abbreviate the city name as "BCN"15:54
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javispedro;)15:54
qwerty12_N900Foreigners call it "that Spanish city" ;P15:55
javispedroqwerty12_N900: didn't you read the tmo topic about the flag? ;)15:55
RST38hjavis: or "Gaudi playground" =)15:56
qwerty12_N900javispedro: Nope, but do you happen to read BBC News? =)15:56
javispedronot read, but I sometimes listen to them. Blame Nokia's selection of Internet radio stations for the n810.15:57
qwerty12_N900javispedro: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8371305.stm15:57
javispedroah, messy stuff.15:57
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: that's awesome15:58
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ShadowJKthat selection of radio stations is also available on S60 ;)15:58
alteregoDoes a package have to be inextras-devel for a period of time before it can be promoted to extras-testing?15:59
RST38hBBC isn't the worst choice though15:59
javispedroalterego: no,15:59
alteregoBecause I can't see anyway to promote this package :/15:59
javispedrobut the autobuilder may take a while to upload pkgs to the repo15:59
RST38halterego: ok, follow my directions16:00
alteregom'ksay16:00
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RST38halterego: go to http://www.maemo.org/packages16:01
RST38halterego: click on "All packages in Fremantle Extras-devel."16:01
alteregom'hmm16:02
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alteregoAh, there's a premote package link now :P16:05
alteregoThanks RST38h16:05
RST38halterego: cooool =)16:07
alteregoIt was that first step that I was missing I think ;)16:07
alteregoThat linked it with the devel repository.16:08
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alteregoOh, I can't promote the whole "package" I have to do each individual component.16:10
alterego(source package that is)16:10
javispedrowhat's this stuff about the "portrait mode bug"?16:11
javispedro~seen yerga16:11
infobotyerga is currently on #maemo (2d 18h 59m 8s). Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 1d 19h 2m 56s, last said: 'ali1234, it worked fine here with 42-11'.16:11
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timeless_mbpdarn, SWep4 is showing16:12
qwerty12_N900javispedro: bug 6203, maybe16:12
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6203 Rotation in 42-11 is not as smooth as in 41-10 for some third party apps16:12
javispedrono,  this http://share.ovi.com/album/yerga.Maemo5portraitb16:12
qwerty12_N900Ah16:13
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qwerty12_N900Maybe's he's referring to his N900 being stuck in portrait mode?16:13
timeless_mbpjavispedro: whose calendar app is that?16:13
timeless_mbpthe calendar app title is unfortunate16:13
javispedrothat's what I want to know.16:14
timeless_mbpmy guess is that it's ours16:14
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javispedrowell there are not that many calendar apps in fremantle ;)16:15
alteregoOh, balls16:15
lcukcourse there are16:16
alteregoruby installs to /usr/ but we should be doing everything under /opt now right?16:16
lcukcalendar apps are the new media players16:16
qwerty12_N900Apart from metalayer-crawler, I quite liked Diablo's default16:17
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rangelcuk: What? The fremantle calendar doesn't play .ogg alarms?16:18
javispedro"It went in right before the release,16:18
javispedrowe were not told about it, and we had no chance to test it or point out the obvious problem with it."16:18
* javispedro sighs16:18
lcukrange, mmm?16:19
lcuki dunno16:19
Stskeepzjavispedro: hmm?16:19
javispedroohmd16:19
Stskeepzah16:19
Stskeepzohmd was there from the start though? :P16:19
rangelcuk: Well, if they are the new media players :)16:20
javispedroah, I guess he meant while rotating only then16:20
lcukn900lol i meant as in a hello world app16:20
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alteregoCan you rotate the emulator? :)16:21
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javispedro"the emulator"..16:22
alteregoWell, the SDK16:22
javispedrobut yes, you can use xrandr to rotate Xephyr in the SDK16:22
javispedroor so said the wiki..16:22
* lcuk vanishes16:22
RST38hAre they already filing bugs against "the emulator" on bugzilla?16:22
alteregoHeh16:23
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JosefAssadquick question: the stuff listed on http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/, is that a subset of what is in extras or where does that come from?16:24
javispedrouser/* subset of extras.16:24
JosefAssadah, ok16:24
alteregoNeat16:24
crashanddie_time for lunch16:25
crashanddie_llunch I guess, for "late lunch"16:25
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ali1234qemu isn't an emulator now?16:26
crashanddie_The hint is in the name16:26
ali1234yes, that's kind of what i thought too16:26
javispedrobut the SDK isn't.16:26
ali1234but the thing that lets you run armel binaries on a PC is16:27
crashanddie_ali1234, technically speaking, qemu is a "CPU Emulator"16:27
javispedroali1234: but that's what most people talk about when they refer to the "emulator".16:27
ali1234javispedro: the SDK includes an emulator16:27
crashanddie_so, being pedantic, to answer alterego's question, "no, you can't rotate the CPU emulator"16:27
javispedrosince, oh! the armel target doesn't even boot h-d.16:27
javispedroali1234: and it includes a calendar application now, but that doesn't mean people should call it "the calendar".16:28
crashanddie_but yeah, people are right in using the term "emulator" for the SDK and stuff16:28
javispedrocrashanddie_: no, because it tricks them into thinking the GUI they're seeing is being emulated. it isn't. it's running diferent binaries.16:29
crashanddie_who gives a?16:29
* alterego doesn't.16:29
crashanddie_it emulates how your application will behave16:29
alteregoIf javispedro wants to correct everyone  then so be it, I'm not going to lose sleep.16:29
javispedrocrashanddie_: me. and the poor person who files a bug about my apps without trying on device, since I'll kill him.16:29
alteregoMeaning is more important to me than syntax :P16:29
alteregoExcept when programming.16:30
javispedroor gives thumbs up/down in -testing without device.16:30
crashanddie_javispedro, whatev16:30
lbtRST38h: did you see my query re MasterGear?16:30
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javispedrocrashanddie_: it's already happening.16:30
crashanddie_javispedro, again, who gives a?16:30
javispedroah well, ok.16:30
crashanddie_Just ask that people who provide bug reports also provide a valid mac address16:30
crashanddie_done16:30
alteregoHahah,16:31
crashanddie_if people are too stupid to understand that things don't work the same on-device and in the emulator, they're idiots16:31
crashanddie_you have the same limitation on *every platform*16:31
javispedrospecially when on this platform the SDK is _not_ an emulator.16:31
crashanddie_javispedro, fuck off16:31
ali1234where i come from, an SDK is a compiler and some includes and libraries16:32
ali1234maybe not even the compiler16:32
* javispedro feels a dejà vú now.16:32
ali1234calling the emulator "the SDK" is just wrong16:32
ali1234it's even more misleading than calling it "an emulator"16:32
javispedroit's not an emulator!16:33
crashanddie_javispedro, the correct spelling is: Déjà vu16:33
ali1234nor is it an SDK!16:33
crashanddie_(minus capital)16:33
alteregoali1234: he was right in what I Was talking about, I wasn't using the arm target, so the actual emulator (qemu) was not being used.16:33
javispedrowhile I don't agree either with calling it "SDK", at least that's what Nokia calls it.16:33
ali1234what you are calling the SDK is infact an entire distribution of maemo, for x8616:33
javispedrook.16:33
alteregoHow about SDE then :P16:33
crashanddie_javispedro, iPhone emulator runs different binaries, blackberry emulator runs different binaries, android emulator runs different binaries16:34
ali1234hell, it would probably cause a lot less confusion if those virtual images... instead of having all the scratchbox cruft inside an ubuntu image or whatever... if they were just maemo x86 running native16:34
qwerty12_N900wannabe emulator16:34
javispedrocrashanddie_: android emulator doesn't.16:34
Stskeepzali1234: well, no, not really :P16:34
crashanddie_yes it does16:34
ali1234but i suppose that would be too logical16:34
javispedrono it doesn't16:34
crashanddie_javispedro, try to run a GPS app16:34
javispedroi just give it yesterday the snesoid apk16:34
Stskeepzali1234: i welcome you to test out sdk on a x86 machine raw :P16:34
ali1234on a virtual machine? sure? why not?16:35
javispedrothat is the same binary than runs on the actual phone, and it worked.16:35
javispedroso yes it runs same binaries.16:35
javispedrotry that on the Maemo SDK.16:35
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RST38hlbt: No, which one?16:36
crashanddie_javispedro, when I played with it (round droid 0.8, beta version), the emulator ran different low-level libs in order to have applications and platform not crash as soon as you tried to access a non-existing device, such as GPS16:36
javispedroit won't even work in the true "Emulator" (armel target) since qemu's sbox version support for newer arm cpus is ... well.16:36
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lbtRST38h: I dl'ed Master Gear16:36
RST38hlbt: (I may have forgotten)16:36
lbtand  put Sega_Tween_Game_Gear.zip in ~/MyDocs16:36
lbtI click on it and get a black screen16:36
RST38hOf course16:36
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RST38hMG does not support .zip files, and I am not sure why it should16:36
crashanddie_javispedro, I think I never compiled anything on device before the N900, everything was compiled in scratchbox, and then scp'd/or deb'd to the device16:37
lbtmy other emulators did, and there are no docs and it accepted it...16:37
RST38hEither give it .sms/.gg file, or .sms.gz/.gg.gz16:37
lbtjust as a comment16:37
javispedrocrashanddie_:  me neither, probably because "the emulator" in the diablo sdk was better.16:37
RST38hlbt: Quoting from the source code that prints help on "mg -help":16:37
RST38h  "\nUsage: mg [-option1 [-option2...]] [filename]",16:38
RST38h  "\n[filename] = Name of the file to load as a cartridge [CART.ROM]",16:38
RST38h#if defined(ZLIB)16:38
RST38h  "  This program will transparently uncompress GZIPped files.",16:38
RST38h#endif16:38
crashanddie_javispedro, sorry for the flaming btw, nothing personal16:38
crashanddie_I'm just starting to get pretty sick of all the people being so seriously anal about specific words16:38
javispedrocrashanddie_: it's me who started the flaming, so don't worry.16:38
lbtRST38h: err, this is a gui? with an About menu16:38
alteregoHeh16:38
wazdRST38h: well, since "party" will look like silent sitting in "Yaposhka" near the store and talking with tablet users, not bloggers, then why not? :)16:38
crashanddie_For fuck's sake, it's a word, who gives a shit about how it's capitalised or used, as long as the meaning remains clear16:38
lbtmaybe that would be a place for help16:38
lbtbut if you don't want the feedback, that's cool too :)16:38
RST38hwazd: Yea, I am absolutely for this kind of party, I like these16:38
crashanddie_and yes GeneralAntilles, I'm talking to you as well with the above statement16:38
RST38hwazd: It is jumping around with a horde of bloggers scavenging for free food that I detest :)16:39
alteregoHahahah16:39
wazdRST38h: people on n8xx.com agree with you :)16:39
RST38hlbt: I guess the main problem is that I do not provide a menu item that links to the help page16:40
RST38hlbt: I implemented this in Windows, but it is missing from Maemo apps16:40
lbtand, there's no unzip on the device16:40
RST38hlbt: unzip is actually available from Extras-Testing or -Devel16:40
RST38hlbt: (and no, it is not my problem :))16:40
lbtit's just not as slick as it could be IMHO16:40
lbtfilter on filetype/extentions would be useful16:41
qwerty12_N900RST38h: My biggest complaint with your emulators is that it quits when it can't load a file. You get a message on the console; why not show it in the GUI and give the user a chance to load a different file?16:41
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RST38hlbt: Well...As far as ZIP handling is concerned, I would like to avoid it. It makes complete mess of the source code.16:41
RST38hlbt: And does not serve any useful purpose for myself, as I keep everything gzipped16:41
RST38hqwerty: That is easy to fix. I will try fixing it in the next release16:42
lbtisn't it how they're normally handled though?16:42
RST38hqwerty: If it is not too much of pain, remind me about it in 3-4 days16:42
* lbt not an emu user really16:42
RST38hlbt: no16:42
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Thanks16:42
RST38hlbt: GZIP support is added trivially via ZLib and it is transparent16:42
lbt*nod*16:42
lbttar.gz?16:42
lbtor gg.gz16:43
RST38hlbt: ZIP support means I have to replace fopen/fread/fclose with a bunch of really messy code not written by myself16:43
RST38hlbt> gg.gz16:43
lbtand do I need all the Source/ Stuff16:43
RST38hlbt: Think of it this way:16:43
RST38hlbt: you can have a directory with 100 .gg files that you gzip *.gg and compress them well, then stop thinking of them16:43
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RST38hlbt: Or you can have a directory with 100 .zip files containing Cthulhu knows what16:44
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RST38hlbt: And ask the emulator author to look into each file for you, pick a file that he thinks you consider relevant, and load it16:44
RST38hlbt: I would like to avoid the second route16:44
lbtsure but the sites ship .zip packages ...16:45
derfRST38h: Fortunately, no one cares what you like.16:45
alteregoHas anyone wrote a script that does the inital validation that the promotion interface does?16:46
alteregoMight be good to have that so you can check before upploading all your junk16:46
lbtso it's like saying that your package mgr prefers tar.gz so we should dl .deb files, unpack them and put them together again as .tar.gz files16:46
lbtagain, trying to be constructive16:46
RST38hderf: the feeling is mutual :)16:47
RST38hlbt: My package prefers the type of files containing rom images for the hardware I aemulate16:47
lbtfair enough :)16:47
RST38hlbt: Handling for zip archives is provided by WinZip on windows, unzip on Linux16:48
ali1234this is why the "file soup" method of putting everything in one directory, and having each app try to guess which files it should and shouldn't show in file dialogues, completely and utterly sucks16:48
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lardman"morning"16:48
RST38hlbt: Having said that, I am sorry for not including a link to documentation into the package. Will have to fix it.16:48
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RST38hAlso, the lack of filtering by extension someone has mentioned is mostly because I could not figure out how to implement it in HildonFM2 :)16:49
lbtAh, I see the .gg.gz appears with a nice icon... would be good to have a filetype filter16:49
lbtheh16:49
RST38hYea, if you show me how to do it ;)16:49
javispedrolooking inside .zip files? pft.16:50
javispedrolook at how slow nautilus is.16:50
lbtno, just an extension filter16:50
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Make them as normal (and, for libhildonfm2), explictly set that filter to be active?16:50
RST38hlbt: Notice that I set up the icons and the MIME types for all the relevant file types16:50
lbtyeah, nice16:50
RST38hlbt: So once you stop asking for weird crap (like ZIP file parsing) and switch to correct archival methods, it all "just works" :)16:51
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lbtand it launches...16:51
RST38hso it should16:51
lbtheh, no fair... you told me to dl a .zip file16:51
RST38hqwerty: Got a code snippet? ;)16:51
qwerty12_N900Nope =)16:52
lbtand mame uses zip files.... so when it opened it, I assumed it was all good16:52
RST38hlbt: but...mm...don't you know what to do with zip files? :)))16:52
lbthttp://library.gnome.org/devel/gtkmm/unstable/classGtk_1_1FileFilter.html16:52
RST38hMAME is a bit different.16:52
* lbt not a mame/emu expert...16:52
RST38hActually, in the case of MAME, using .zips is the least of possible evils I think16:52
javispedroah, are you discussing a standard extension filter for the file open dialog?16:52
lbtanyhow does that Sega_Tween_Game_Gear demo do anything16:53
lbtjavispedro: yes16:53
javispedroi do that in drnoksnes gui, lemme check16:53
RST38hMAME's problem is that every coinop board has different number of roms arranged in different ways with a lot of extra stuff (like charsets, palettes, overlays)16:53
RST38hSo, MAME is kinda like OpenOffice in terms of storage16:53
RST38hIt has to contain lots of heterogenous data in a single file16:53
RST38hAll the time providing access to individual parts of that data. Hence ZIP usage16:53
javispedrohttps://git.maemo.org/projects/drnoksnes/?p=drnoksnes;a=blob;f=gui/plugin.c;hb=HEAD#l12616:54
RST38hlbt: I have no idea what it does, just found you a homebrewn gg/sms rom to try :)16:54
javispedro^^ gtk_file_filter_add_pattern sample16:54
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RST38hlbt: You can google for real commercial sms/gg roms of course, but I can't legally provide you with any16:54
RST38hjavis: Ahhhaaa!!!16:55
javispedro*.zip files =)16:55
javispedrowell, see you16:56
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lbtheh, he beat me to it :)16:57
Stskeepzhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34043386/ns/travel-news?GT1=43001 <- wtf17:03
qwerty12_N900I know I shouldn't laugh, but...17:04
alterego:/ libreadline5-dev seems to be broken.17:04
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Stskeepzi wonder if nokia shops / suppliers / etc has a really bad impression of upcoming n900 users by now17:06
alteregoHeh, probably.17:07
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alteregoThough, if they see it for waht it is, anticipation, rather than just childish obsession :P17:07
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Stskeepzn900, turning people into madmen.17:07
Stskeepzwhich then will become more n900s.17:07
Stskeepzbrilliant business model.17:08
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alteregoI for one welcome our finnish overlords :P17:08
lardmanqwerty12_N900: interesting, I think that's a 727, which has a runway takeoff length of 5,800', which is quite a bit more than the remaining length of that runway17:09
RST38hHow do I delete a GtkFileFilter?17:09
wazdOH NO THEY DID IT!17:10
RST38h?17:10
lardmanwhat do people recommend for a music player/centre app?17:10
* RST38h sighs at lardman17:10
lardmandesktop17:11
wazdTwitter updates as a feature in MaeVoice :D17:11
RST38hOh, that...17:11
Stskeepzwazd: keeping up to date with n900 news!17:11
RST38hlardman: WinAmp :)17:11
Stskeepz:P17:11
lardmanPre-installed Rhythmbox has just gone tits up17:11
wazdhttp://vimeo.com/774305917:11
RST38hlardman: Whatever looks like WinAmp on Linux will do17:11
wazdI can EVEN update tweets! No way!17:12
wazd:D17:12
lardmanyeah, am just trying to select from a long list of names tho17:12
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* lardman tries Exaile17:12
RST38hlardman: pointless, go with winamp clone.17:13
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RST38hlardman: tried that before, only winamp works :)17:13
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RST38hthere was one more, apparently done in Motif (!), but I no longer remember the name17:13
qwerty12_N900lardman: Amarok, but the older versions were way better17:13
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ali1234lots of people like banshee and songbird17:15
Shapeshiftersongbird lol17:15
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ali1234i've given up on that now, i just use spotify17:15
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lardmanI'll give Amarok a go, have to switch to Qt at some point anyway ;)17:16
* qwerty12_N900 uses it in GNOME17:16
ShapeshifterDon't even try giving songbird more then like 10000 tracks or it will fall from the sky like a lame duck17:16
lardmanqwerty12_N900: it's KDE based though17:16
ali1234yeah, same for banshee and rhythmbox17:16
Shapeshiftermpd + Ario = win.17:16
qwerty12_N900lardman: Still works17:16
lardmanindeed17:16
ali1234maybe one day somebody will make a mp3 jukebox that doesn't choke on more than a couple of hundred files. but not today17:17
Shapeshifterali1234: mpd.17:17
ali1234mpd is not a mp3 jukebox17:17
ali1234it has no damn gui17:17
Shapeshifterali1234: you kidding >.> it has like a 100 guis.17:17
ali1234the mp3 playing backend is not the problem17:17
Shapeshifterand Ario is an awesome gui to mpd.17:17
ali1234the problem is all the indexing system are rubbish17:17
ali1234moving the player backend out of the gui is just pointless, since they all use gstreamer anyway17:18
ali1234none of them are even responsible for playback17:19
Shapeshifterali1234: so you think it's pointless that mpd is a backend many people can use while choosing a frontend they like? like, a web frontend if you need it, or gtk, or qt, or with lots of stuff, or with little, or command line.17:19
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ali1234yes, because the little command line part is superfluous and gstreamer is vastly superior17:20
ali1234i don't need yet another mp3 playing tool and all the associated audio configuration drama17:20
RST38hwazd: I am still missing point of MaeVoice17:20
Shapeshifterali1234: gstreamer can index my music?17:21
RST38hwazd: Most videos look like Alcoholics Anonymous admissions17:21
ali1234Shapeshifter: that's exactly the problem. nothing can index music in a decent way on linux17:21
Shapeshifterali1234: what's wrong with mpd?17:21
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, I do. :)17:21
rangempd does a good job doing so.17:21
GeneralAntillesali1234, really interested in that list myself. :)17:22
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Shapeshifterali1234: and what audio configuration drama are you talking about?17:23
rangeAll I need is a non web gui for Maemo 5 (ncmpc probably is a bit fiddly on there)17:23
lardmanrubbish, won't even play music while importing17:23
lardmantoo much time wasted, /me cracks on with coding and uses N900 for music17:24
ali1234Shapeshifter: the audio configuration drama is the one where anything that isn't gstreamer chokes to death on pulseaudio17:24
Shapeshifterali1234: lol.... just install OSS for gods sake.17:24
Shapeshifteralsa is rubbish anyway17:24
ali1234and the problem with mpd is it combines a bunch of stuff that really shouldn't be combined, in a way which is totally incompatible with all other software17:24
Shapeshifterand complete and utter rubbish at that.17:24
lardmanhmm, has anyone compiled battlegweled for Fremantle?17:25
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Shapeshifterali1234: I still don't see what you're talking about. I can run mpd, listen to music, see a flash movie at the same time in firefox and put mplayer on top of that, if I ever wanted to do that. Sound is not a problem, I don't see what mpd has got to do with any of this.17:25
ShapeshifterJust because pulseaudio and alsa suck, doesn't mean mpd sucks >.>17:25
ali1234this is it though, pulseaudio does not suck for me17:26
ali1234what sucks is programs that don't bother to implement pulse support, instead taking the "not invented here" approach17:26
RST38hahreally?17:26
Shapeshifterthe only ever reason to use alsa is because OSS doesn't support USB sound recording (i.e. webcam mics), which is reallly sad, but other then that it's totally awesome.17:26
Shapeshifterali1234: pulse support? *rolleyes17:27
ali1234yes pulse support17:27
Shapeshifterali1234: run it through padsp.17:27
rangeHmmm. I think the mpd I'm listening to right now has pulse support.17:27
ali1234padsp emulates OSS, not ALSA17:27
ali1234so it's only useful for a subset of all broken apps17:28
ali1234but hey, if you're too lazy to implement it, you could always just use gstreamer17:28
RST38hShould we also implement support for ALSA, ESD, ARTS?17:28
ali1234nope17:28
Shapeshifterali1234: so you think that all apps need to start supporting the inane alsa/pulse duct-tape solution?17:28
ali1234especially not ESD and ARTS, nobody important has used those for at least 10 years17:29
RST38hThen I will probably just wait for a year or two for PA to die its natural death.17:29
RST38h;)17:29
ali1234actually i would suggest that nobody ever implement an mp3 player that hits the hardware directly17:29
ali1234instead, use gstreamer17:29
GeneralAntillesali1234, still waiting on that list. ;)17:30
ali1234GeneralAntilles: at the moment it's just you17:31
GeneralAntillesali1234, ah, good to know.17:31
RST38hSo, ali, no list?17:31
GeneralAntillesali1234, let me know when you get a clue.17:31
* RST38h kinda forgot but was reminded by General17:31
ali1234GeneralAntilles: sure. let me know when you stop being a hypocrite :)17:31
GeneralAntilles'cause right now you don't have one about me or what I contribute to this community.17:31
ali1234GeneralAntilles: you're right. all i know about what you contribute is what i get from reading what you write17:32
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GeneralAntillesNor, apparently, how bugzilla works or what my comments about it mean.17:32
* GeneralAntilles isn't surprised, anyway.17:33
ali1234really, what does bugzilla have to do with anything? i don't recall saying bugzilla was particularly bad?17:33
lardmanhmm, Amarok doesn't actually play anyway17:33
ali1234although i might have at some point. but i don't think it's the worst bug tracker or anything17:34
RST38hlardman: XMMS.17:34
RST38hlardman: Believe me, it is going to be nother quest for the holy grail =)17:34
lardmanI'm after something with a library17:34
RST38hAh17:34
lardmanwell Amarok quite literally does not play anyway17:35
RST38hDoes *anything* play? It may be a problem with the audio driver after all17:35
lardmannah the previous problem was a missing gst component, but I've no idea how it went missing17:35
lardmanand now, no, afaict nothing plays from Amarok17:36
qwerty12_N900lardman: It saw your GStreamer code coming17:36
lardmanit's decided to rescan though17:36
lardmancrap software17:36
* lardman fires up mplayer17:36
RST38hGStreamer has not gone missing. It hid!17:36
lardmanok, so other apps are happy to output audio17:37
GeneralAntillesali1234, my recommendation is that you focus on that reading thing. It's not working so well for you right now.17:38
alteregoHeh17:38
alteregomaemo.org is always so bloody sllow for me.17:38
ali1234GeneralAntilles: keep up the attacks, it's really convincing me that i should re-evaluate my opinion of you17:39
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RST38hGentlemen, could you just stop it?17:40
RST38hIt is not worth the quarrel, really.17:40
pupnik_whoever made this xterm open links so easy deserves @big THANKS!17:40
pupnik_NO MORE hilighting the url like a monkey in a bad video game17:41
alterego:)17:42
RST38hif you mean gnome terminal, it has got a few worse problems17:42
lardmanaargh, I'm going to strangle that bloody wolf17:42
lardmanjust sitting there laughing (silently) at me17:42
RST38hlike its insistance on focusing at the tab level17:42
RST38hs/level/label17:42
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petteriis there a way to get visual bell stuff into notifications with the xterm. It would be nice with irssi and mutt17:45
pupnik_~ < RST38h> lardman: Whatever looks like WinAmp on Linux will do17:46
Shapeshiftersoo... is there a way to get qt and pyqt into the maemo5 sdk?17:46
alteregoShapeshifter: not in the repositories?17:47
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pupnik_default media player is good enough for me this time. i likes it17:48
lardmanpupnik_: I know, but I can't see the buggers17:48
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RST38hpupnik: he needs the one for the desktop not for N90017:50
pupnik_o17:51
lardmanGStreamer-WARNING **: Failed to load plugin '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstschro.so': /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstschro.so: undefined symbol: schro_virt_frame_new_vert_downsample17:51
lardmanthat's my problem17:51
Shapeshifteralterego: apparently not. apt-cache qt shows some qt libs but no package "qt" and pyqt isn't there at all.17:51
RST38hSo much for using gstreamer...17:52
lardmanhave fixed that by removing some packages, but rhythmbox still won't start, and fails silently17:53
* lardman reaches for a stick with which to hit the computer17:53
RST38hSpanking penguins?17:53
lardmanmore like cracking penguin skulls open17:53
RST38hWhat would PETA say?17:53
qwerty12_N900He'd buy them off with some wine17:54
lardmanhmm, banshee is written in mono?17:56
rangeYes.17:56
* lardman tries it anyway17:56
RST38h[state-of-factly] Castle Anthrax17:57
DeadDodoMono's a pain in the ass. And not because of the Microsoft affiliation, either. It's bloody slow.17:57
alteregoSeems to just be me using the auto-builder today :P17:58
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lardmanah, finally, banshee at least plays music18:00
* lardman now moves onto cursing segfaults18:00
alteregoHeh18:00
alteregoWhat are you trying tt odo lardman? Just listen to music?18:00
lardmantrying to code18:01
lardmanbut wanted to listen to music, so have actually spent the best part of a hour installing stuff that won't work18:01
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lardmanso am feeling nice and relaxed now :)18:01
alteregoHahah18:01
lardmanor not18:01
* lardman goes and get a beer18:01
alteregoWhat distro you using?18:01
lardmanUbuntu18:01
alteregoWeird, I use rhythmbox just fone on buntu18:02
alterego~fine ..18:02
* infobot requires .. to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies18:02
DeadDodoMmmm.18:02
lardmanI did until today, when it stopped working18:02
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lardmanno clue why, worked this morning, not this afternoon, no updates inbetween18:03
alteregoInteresting,18:03
lardmanwell I know the error - is further up the page, but that doesn't even seem to have been the issue18:03
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RST38h~fine alterego18:04
* infobot requires alterego to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies18:04
alteregorawr18:05
alteregoWhat did I do? :(18:05
alteregoIs it me wasting all the resources on the auto-builder? :P18:05
RST38hgave me a wrong idea.18:05
lardmanhmm osso_get_sys_dbus_connection() is segfaulting18:06
RST38hThat is usually sufficient, too...18:06
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lardmanhmm, what causes osso_initialize() to fail?18:09
lardmanah, version number I bet18:09
RST38hhaven't been checking the result of osso_initialize, have we? ;)18:10
Macern900 out yet?18:10
* Macer grins18:10
RST38hIt is out at NYC =)18:11
Macerchicago too from what i've heard18:11
RST38hOr so they say. Might be something in the water though.18:11
Macer"heard"18:11
Macerheh18:11
lardmanhmm, still failing18:14
RST38hOk, it is C# night for me =(18:15
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Condolences18:16
konttorilcuk: you around?18:16
RST38hbtw, added extension filters, just need to test18:16
RST38hand if someone tells me how to start web browser from a program, I will add links to documentation18:16
lardmanin C?18:17
konttoriI have a small idea to add to file manager: new and modified to be on the top level of fm. It would query from tracker last 50 modified or added items (sorted by that field), and allow thus quick access to the new content.18:17
konttori(btw: anybody is welcome to comment if that sounds good or bad)18:17
pupnik_nice nice18:17
lardmananyone know how to debug osso startup problems?18:17
konttoriIt should be pretty trivial (and safe) change18:17
Jaffakonttori: Sounds good18:17
pupnik_i would use it18:17
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crashanddie__"Officials in Spain tackle masturbation hands on"18:18
lardmanlol18:18
qwerty12_N900Pedos in government?18:19
crashanddie__"Who gives a shit about the economy, let's teach our kids how to spank the monkey!"18:19
crashanddie__Just goes to show how useless government officials really are18:19
crashanddie__and how little work they accomplish18:19
pupnik_when is kbd backlight on n900 supposed to come on!18:20
pupnik_it is dark here18:20
crashanddie__pupnik_, when you press it18:20
crashanddie__pupnik_, and it's open18:20
pupnik_closing and reopening slide displaz worked ty18:20
pupnik_the letter widths are not perfect18:21
pupnik_u is darker than i18:21
pupnik_how is that for a product hardware complaint?  i dont know what else seems imperfect18:22
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ali1234you think they're going to put an LED under each key?18:23
pupnik_nope18:23
ali1234oh wait, you're joking :)18:23
lardmanwow, it works18:24
lardmanI was testing from the command line and it wasn't working, but from the menu it does18:24
lardmanand it even rotatesa18:24
lardmancool18:24
SpeedEvilali1234: optimus-stylee would be cool18:24
pupnik_what are you doing lardman ?18:24
alteregoThat tmo thread about the ovi store license is funny.18:25
alteregoIs it me or is tmo getting really dumb?18:25
RST38hSpeedEvil: isn't this what touch screen is about?18:25
lardmanpupnik_: adding rotation support to mbarcode18:25
pupnik_you have barcode recognition working? congrats!18:26
RST38halterego: the AI server that provided smart comments has been turned off18:26
GeneralAntillesalterego, it's long past dumb.18:26
RST38htoo much resources drain18:26
* GeneralAntilles notices Reggie pushing Talk for MWN.18:26
konttoriI think that if kb is open, the device should always be in landscape mode18:26
RST38htmo or his own Maemo Talk?18:26
GeneralAntillestmo18:26
lardman~MWN18:27
lardman~google MWN18:27
GeneralAntilleslardman, see the recent -community thread.18:27
mzaso which plan do i need to get tmo 3g? same plan i had on my G1?18:27
RST38hkonttori: that feels correct, but somehow I suspect there is going to be a case or two against that =)18:27
lardmanah, the magazine18:27
lardman?18:27
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/5517018:27
lardmanJaffa's weekly news18:27
konttorii think it's still better than having otherwise accidental rotations18:28
alteregokonttori: even when remaping the arrow keys to compensate for it in tetris? :)18:28
SpeedEvilRST38h: yes - but not quite18:28
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Interesting indeed. Don't quite see how it'd work.18:28
GeneralAntillesDiscussion of articles should go wherever the article subject originated.18:28
RST38hkonttori: how about disabling auto-rotate but still letting application rforce portrait mode?18:29
konttorialterego: tetris is only in portrai18:29
lardmanJaffa: btw I'd be happy to contribute18:29
Jaffalardman: excelllent :)18:29
alteregoI don't know whether weekly is too much,.18:30
alteregoWell, actually it probably isn't.18:30
konttorihey, is there a rar available for the device?18:30
alteregoBut I think maybe have a monthly larger edition? With like some code smnippets and tutorials or stuff.18:30
lardmanhmm, starts being real work then though18:31
GeneralAntillesalterego, what, and step all over christexaport's shoes? ;)18:31
alteregoYeah, hence having that bit monthly, gives some time to work on publishing larger articles.18:31
alteregoThough, admittedly there is the blog-o-sphere to do our own stuff.18:32
* RST38h has seen unrar somewhere18:32
GeneralAntillesThen you'd be stealing audience from people who already bought their own space. :roll:18:32
Jaffaalterego: Well volunteered :)18:32
lardmanlol18:32
* RST38h humbly suggests to Jaffa et al using newlc.com format rather than weekly18:32
alteregonewlc is pretty well done.18:33
JaffaRST38h: Isn't that basically a blog?18:33
RST38hAlthough they have changed the design in the wrong way lately18:34
RST38hJaffa: Kinda18:34
lardmanagregator?18:34
RST38hJaffa: It is different from the normlal blog because they provide quality news (rather than random stuff) and periodically do specialized tutorials18:34
RST38hWith code snippets and stuff18:34
RST38hSo, the article quality at newlc is about the same as you propose18:35
JaffaAh, agreed. Ther's a space for that - but as lardman says, starts being real work then.18:35
RST38hBut they just keep the flow, not doing weekly stuff18:35
* Jaffa will leave high quality in-depth journalism to christaexport for now.18:35
JaffaTrue18:35
RST38hWell, if you strive to finish it by the end of each week, it is real work18:35
RST38hIf you finish it when you finish it, it is still bearable I guess18:36
* RST38h tries to somehow summarize the situation18:36
lardmanneed to get some journo types involved then18:36
lardmanas they will want to do it18:36
RST38hLet us see...18:36
RST38h1. We have a bunch of blogs from individuals, of different quality18:37
RST38h2. We have an aggregator of these blogs18:37
RST38h3. We have a forum18:37
RST38hOne thing we miss (and I guess this is what Jaffa is trying to achieve) is a "manual" aggregator that only collects the top quality blog entries and removes all repeats18:38
JaffaRST38h: Correct.18:38
RST38hJaffa: In fact, I even know where you can stick it18:38
lardmanand also someone to summarise the very long TMO threads18:38
lardmanand ml ones18:38
RST38hJaffa: maemo.org News section18:38
JaffaAnd fish out the quality stuff from a thousand-long thread18:38
RST38hJaffa: As opposed to the Planet subesection of News18:38
JaffaRST38h: Slightly harder cos of the way that works (and would require the content to be entered into midgard, AIUI)18:38
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JaffaAt least with Planet can do output however one wants and have it included.18:39
RST38hJaffa: Well, that is something maemo.org team should work on18:39
alteregoWhat will the format of this emag be?18:39
RST38hJaffa: Also, do steal newlc's idea of color-coding articles18:40
lcukkonttori, ping18:40
SpeedEvilRST38h: but...18:40
RST38hJaffa: According to the thematics (i.e. news, review, developer stuff, etc)18:40
SpeedEvilRST38h: that'll lead to scrolling past reams and reams of white on white posts.18:40
RST38hwhy?18:41
SpeedEviloh - blogs - I thought you were talking about highlighting talk threads18:41
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Jaffaalterego: HTML, lightweight. Downloadable or readable. Other formats in future, perhaps.18:43
RST38hJaffa: By "lightweight" you do not mean current maemo.org and tmi themes, I hope?18:45
RST38hs/tmi/tmo18:45
lcuki like the slashdot approach to forums, having moderation and filtering to just show the 5 decent comments on a thread18:45
RST38hOn ./, you are really better off not seeing any comments...18:45
RST38hKeeps your faith in humanity safe, you know18:46
alteregoHeh18:46
alteregotmo is starting to get that feel too now though :P18:46
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alteregoWho's going to pay for the therapy of the tmo monitors?18:47
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lardmanlol18:47
* qwerty12_N900 nominates alterego 18:47
alteregoHah18:47
lardmanI find one-touch-band-and-removing people stops me needing therapy ;)18:47
lardmans/band/ban18:48
GeneralAntillesUse that power with less discretion, please.18:48
lardman:)18:49
SpeedEvil'This one time, at ban camp'18:49
alteregoHah18:49
suihkulokkidoes talk have moderators?18:49
* GeneralAntilles is personally in favor of applying the beatdown to people who troll about "Fixed in Fremantle" in otherwise productive threads.18:49
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, yes.18:49
lardmanperhaps more MW4 first to get the right mindset18:49
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, problem is that historically speaking there was only one and he was never very proactive in his application of moderation.18:50
alteregoI do wonder about maemo "news" because I don't seem to find much "news" anywhere.18:50
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, so it's a lot more lenient than many forums.18:50
alteregoI think the only news I see is generally new SDK releases.18:50
lbtooh, plug N900 into usb, select mass-storage. Instant reboot18:50
alteregoIS there some resource I'm missing?18:50
GeneralAntillesalterego, Planet?18:50
alteregoGeneralAntilles: bug fixes and random stuff about firefox mobile? :P18:51
suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: would certainly need more moderation imho :P18:51
qwerty12_N900Even Planet is going down the shitter with those stupid Twitter feeds18:51
alteregoWe need tree.maemo.org for twitter :P18:51
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, I agree, but every time somebody tries to do something productive or useful on Talk the conspiracy theorists come swarming out screaming about the maemo.org cabal and Nokia's plan to steal their pocket lint.18:51
GeneralAntillesYeah, that Firefox feed really needs fixing.18:52
GeneralAntillesI think we just need to let everybody have their own domain where they only see the things they want to see.18:52
GeneralAntillesqwerty12.maemo.org only shows questionable material.18:53
qwerty12_N900Where can I sign up?18:53
alteregoHeh18:53
* SpeedEvil screams 'You can take our lives, but you can never take our lint!'18:53
lbthmm, how about modding up/down? But only listening to mods from people you 'trust'18:54
SpeedEvilWeb of trust type thingy18:54
* lbt mods SpeedEvil down18:54
lbtno-one cares18:54
lbt:)18:54
lbtkinda18:54
lbtmore social18:54
lcukn900slashdot18:55
GeneralAntillesUgh18:55
lbtyeah, but there are some people on tmo who I'd trust to mod down the morons18:55
SpeedEvillbt: sort of amazon 'recommendations' - but weighting mods against that18:55
lbtjust slashdot I think18:55
SpeedEvilSo rating a post down weights all the other mods that voted it down up for your personal weight18:55
lbtbut only factoring in certain people's votes18:55
lbtno18:56
alteregoI've got an even better idea, we can all look through the planet aggregation list and choose the sources that are actually useful :P18:56
alteregoThen include them in our own RSS readers :P18:56
lbtjust if I mod it down and you listen to me then you see it as -1. Otherwise you don't18:56
lbtalterego: I'm thinking about tmo18:56
lcukn900lbt i want wikipedia where i can change the bias.   i want an article on manchester united from a man u fan18:56
alteregoAh18:56
suihkulokkialterego: click on the opml lnink to get the list of rss feeds in your rss app - then just remove anyones you don't want =)18:56
lcukn900same idea as you are thinking18:56
alteregoI don't use tmo much, so I Don't really know.18:57
alteregosuihkulokki: yeah, that's an even better idea :P18:57
lcukn900allow everyone to vote18:57
lcukn900but only account for friends votes18:57
* lbt thinks tmo would be a wasteland after I got through with it ;D18:57
lbtlcukn900: yes18:57
GeneralAntilleslbt, sounds like a better plan.18:57
lardmanhmm, so shall I unpack and then repack my H/VBoxes when the orientation changes?18:57
GeneralAntilleslbt, hasten it's demise so we can move on completely.18:57
lbtheh18:57
alteregoI think we should forget about negative voting and just have positive.18:58
suihkulokkiI think twitter feeds are not really useul on planet18:58
GeneralAntillesWe should just troll relentlessly until useful content stops appearing.18:58
lbtalterego: nah, I want to positively ignore some posts18:58
alteregoThat's the problem, tmo is full of crap, if we had thumbs up and a section of tmo that showed the most "interesting" threads, we'd be fine.18:58
qwerty12_N900suihkulokki: Amen18:58
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, most certainly.18:58
lbtsuihkulokki: +118:58
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lardmanwe should make gaining an account more difficult...18:58
alteregoYeah, lets have tree.maemo.org18:58
lardmanperhaps a karma score of >200 or so?18:58
alteregolardman: not a bad idea.18:59
GeneralAntilleslardman, you have to answer a battery of historical questions about Maemo.18:59
t_s_oanother september that never ends?18:59
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GeneralAntillesWhich would disqualify jokers like that javispedro.18:59
GeneralAntillesohdamn18:59
lbtyou know, the +/- votes wouldn't even need to be visible18:59
* javispedro poses and smiles19:00
lbtheh, how appropriate19:00
t_s_oobscure and useful or famous and useless...19:00
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suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: as a community member can you mail that to planet @ maemo.org :)19:00
* lbt nervously watches a raid rebuild...19:00
* suihkulokki delegates19:00
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GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, what, removing the twitter feeds?19:01
suihkulokkiya19:01
alteregoCouncil member, we're all community members :P19:01
GeneralAntillesSomebody hit X-Fade once he gets back from vacation.19:01
lcukn900or change the layout19:01
GeneralAntillesalterego, nothing of the sort.19:01
Jaffaalterego: GeneralAntilles ain't on the council anymore19:01
lcukn900i like a sidebar of twits19:01
lcukn900but not main articles19:01
alteregoOh19:02
alteregoDid you get too many -10's GeneralAntilles ? :)19:02
JaffaDoes Vimeo let you do any editing when you upload stuff?19:02
GeneralAntillesalterego, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council19:02
GeneralAntillesI didn't run for a 3rd term.19:02
qwerty12_N900Yeah, we all booed him off19:02
* Stskeepz ponders if the price drops are due to increased demand19:02
alteregoYeah, I thought you'd still be in the Council, just not the leader?19:03
GeneralAntillesalterego, that was my second term. ;)19:03
GeneralAntillesA year was plenty long for me.19:03
* lbt wonders about trying again to get contacts of his N90019:03
GeneralAntilleslbt, vCards?19:04
lbt?19:04
lbtgo on...19:04
GeneralAntilleslbt, export some?19:04
lardmanor I can point you at some code that will list the contacts for you19:04
GeneralAntillesShould be a menu option.19:04
lbthmm, yes19:04
lbtI wanted syncml... but at this point...19:04
lbtGeneralAntilles: thanks :)19:05
crashanddie__lol19:05
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lbtlardman: yes please... I can then convert to ldif I guess19:05
lardmanok, hang on a tick19:05
crashanddie__fr.emploi.* (french newsgroups regarding jobs and recruiting) are dead, no new posts since april... The crunch is going strong!19:05
goodwillpardon me, for this stupid question: When talking about unlocked phones what does, "Carrier unlock", "international retail unlock" and "US retail unlock means"19:05
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Stskeepsdoes N900 even support simlock?19:06
Stskeeps:P19:06
alteregogoodwill: not really the place to ask.19:06
goodwillthe ones I see on newegg says US carrier unlock19:06
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alteregotry ##gsm19:06
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: If not this one, we know the device running Maemo 6 will =)19:07
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, buy an N900, call it a day.19:07
alteregogoodwill: it probably just means it'll work on any provider in he USA19:07
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alteregoAs it's a USA model N900 which is unlockedw19:07
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lardmanhttp://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/emerillon/test_abook.c19:07
goodwillalterego:  only ask cause I am looking at the n900 and trying to figure out whether I'll be able to use it internationally19:07
GeneralAntillesalterego, minus CDMA and iDEN providers.19:07
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lbtlardman: ta19:07
SpeedEvilgoodwill: yes.19:07
lardmannp19:07
SpeedEvilgoodwill: all - at the moment - n900s are the same hardware19:07
SpeedEvil(well - modulo keyboard)19:07
GeneralAntilles^19:07
goodwillit says "US retail unlock" though19:07
goodwill*sighs*19:08
lardmanis designed to just print out online- contacts, but has to iterate through all of them to work that out, etc19:08
alteregogoodwill: all can be fixed with a software update.19:08
SpeedEvilAnd I don't think anyone is actually selling locked n900s yet19:08
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, Newegg also claims Mozilla made the built-in browser and that it's Maemo's first mobile computer. ;)19:08
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, Newegg likes to throw around random buzzwords19:08
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: did you contact newegg?19:08
DeadDodoNewEgg needs to do research for more then 20 seconds.19:08
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, haven't bothered trying to find a contact address yet.19:08
DeadDodothan* 20...19:09
GeneralAntillesthan*19:09
goodwillI am still not sure where to get an n900 that is completely unlocked then19:09
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: hrm19:09
timeless_mbphttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1687520517819:09
GeneralAntillesgoodwill, there are no locked N900s. :)19:09
timeless_mbpMaemo Browser powered by Mozilla technology19:09
timeless_mbpthat's ok19:09
timeless_mbpwhich part am i looking for?19:09
alteregogoodwill: they're all completely unlocked, were you not listening to what we were saying?19:09
goodwillalterego: alright19:10
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, one of the questions in the giveaway quiz.19:10
timeless_mbpoh19:10
goodwillthank you19:10
timeless_mbpnice19:10
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DeadDodoGiveaway quiz?19:10
GeneralAntilleshttp://promotions.newegg.com/Sweepstakes/NokiaN900/index.html?cm_mmc=SNC-Facebook-_-na-_-na-_-na19:10
alteregoAlso, unless they say "N900, locked to vodafone" it's unlikely to be locked to anything, it should have been a bit more of a giveaway that they said it was "unlocked".19:10
timeless_mbphttp://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/OverView.aspx#ContactUsTab19:10
timeless_mbp    *  LiveChat Hours of Operation:19:10
timeless_mbp    * Mon - Fri: 5:30am - 5:30pm PT19:10
GeneralAntilles"Mozilla, the makers of Firefox, created an internet browser for the N900 that supports flash and video, so you can experience the web just like you do on your computer."19:10
alteregoThough I can understand the confusing with "USA"19:10
alterego~confusion.l19:10
pupnik_is media player not playing youtube flvs a bug? or a mikssing feature?19:11
pupnik_missing19:11
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: not false actually19:11
RST38hpupnik: Depends19:11
timeless_mbpit doesn't say "created *the* browser19:11
RST38hpupnik: I would say it is a missing decoder, i.e. this is not a bug19:11
pupnik_k19:11
Stskeepsthen again, i don't understand what's limiting n900 to be non-simlockable. i mean, all the celluar modem stuff is closed and in a diff chip..19:11
alteregotimeless_mbp: well their ambiguous grammer is a different issue all together :P19:11
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Stskeepsand you could probably lock on that level :P19:12
alteregoStskeeps, I believe locks _are_ done on that level.19:12
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timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure i've translated strings for locked n900s19:12
pupnik_should i file a feature request to play back youtube flvs?19:12
alteregoBut how many operators do you know of that are selling the N900's right now?19:12
timeless_mbpalterego: there's one in england19:12
alteregotimeless_mbp: really? Who?19:13
timeless_mbpother than that, i don't know of any19:13
SpeedEvilalterego: that's not an operator19:13
GeneralAntillesIndeed19:13
SpeedEvilalterego: it's a mobile phone store that applies the kickback they get from the network for a new connect to provide a phone.19:13
RST38hpupnik: Just call it properly: "Please, implement flv decoding plugin"19:13
alteregoHeh19:13
SpeedEvilHowever - vodafone.ie have said they will carry it19:13
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alteregoOh, like, car phone werehouse or something.19:14
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RST38hDivX decoder is also missing and there have been multiple complaints about H.264 decoder completeness19:14
qwerty12_N900pupnik_: Installing zoutube will install gstreamer-flv, at least19:14
alteregoYeah, Vodafone have said they'd provide it, but not until next yeaer, and they really _love_ branding their scht.19:14
RST38hqwerty: Won't that fix pupnik's problem?19:14
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qwerty12_N900RST38h: Not sure if the Media player will start to list FLVs...19:15
qwerty12_N900But it should be able to play them if it does do so19:15
RST38hlisting flvs is something tracker should do?19:15
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RST38hqwerty: Btw, is it at all possible to implement subtitles inside the current gst framework?19:16
GeneralAntillesMy neighbor really loves practicing the clarinet.19:16
RST38hqwerty: I.e. without involving Nokia and preferably by using an existing component?19:16
lbthmm, the contents of the zipfiles in a backup are interesting19:16
alteregoRST38h: gstreamer has a plugin that'll render fonts19:16
RST38hlbt: If you want to change the address book this way, it does not work :(19:16
qwerty12_N900RST38h: zaheerm tried, but it requires being able to get the name of the currently playing file19:16
lbtah19:16
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SpeedEvilhttps://forum.vodafone.ie/index.php?/topic/1140-nokia-n900/ - vodafone.ie19:16
RST38hlbt: If you find a way, PLEASE let me know19:17
timeless_mbpthere's a comment in a vodafone.co.uk forum from someone at vodafone indicating they expected to have the n90019:17
SpeedEvilalterego: exactly19:17
lbtRST38h: *nod*19:17
* RST38h has got a whole address book of phone numbers starting with 8-19:17
RST38hNeed to change 'em to +719:17
timeless_mbp+7 ??19:17
timeless_mbprussia?19:17
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lardmanif I place an HBox and a VBox into another box and only fill one, does the other take up no (screen) space?19:19
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lbtlardman: depends on stretch19:21
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lbtand thumb and border and...19:21
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lbtbut yes19:21
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: are you sure you're not thinking of .ie?19:22
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: the forum hit i have is .co.uk19:23
timeless_mbphttp://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3567119:23
timeless_mbp(bah, fish it out of google cache)19:23
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: as soon as last week - the forum mods on .co.uk have been saying 'we can't say', look on 'coming soon' - where it doesn't appear19:23
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: ah19:23
JaffaRST38h: Export all contacts as vCard, regexp search & replace, re-import19:26
* Jaffa did that to make sure all his numbers were internationalised19:26
RST38hJaffa: Will it merge stuff automagically?19:27
lbtJaffa: are you aware of any work to sort out syncing to Linux desktops?19:27
Jaffalbt: I'm not aware of any19:27
lardmanlbt: thanks19:27
JaffaRST38h: No, but it should keep fidelity if you delete all and re-import.19:27
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JaffaRST38h: Take a backup to be sure, though ;-)19:27
RST38hqwerty: Well, it can probably show a file open dialog to select subtitle file on init?19:28
RST38hJaffa: Hmmm...ok. Sounds mighty dangerous though19:28
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lardmanhmm, can I add the same widget to two boxes, and only display one of them?19:29
lbtno19:29
qwerty12RST38h: Not a bad idea... Now you've got me interested, lol19:29
lardmanthought not19:29
JaffaRST38h: Why? VCFs are a trivial text-based format.19:30
lbtyou can move a widget between two locations19:30
lardmanyep, was just trying to avoid repacking new boxes, etc19:30
javispedrooh, I would be interested in knowing how to get the name of the currently played filename from a gst demuxer19:30
Shapeshifterguys, I'm trying to add extras-devel to my SDK but I can't find how to do that. The extras-devel page doesn't even feature deb lines of the repo19:31
qwerty12Shapeshifter: http://repository.maemo.org.19:31
javispedroeven though I think it goes against gst principles... since basically it could be not a file but a pipe, etc.19:31
lbtthere was a discussion recently on the correct flashing order... eMMC then fiasco or vice-versa....19:32
Shapeshifterqwerty12: ahh thanks.19:32
lbtany conclusion?19:32
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Shapeshiftermhh. but for some reason these 404 if I add them and then run apt-get update: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/unknown/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404 Not Found [IP: 213.155.157.9 80]19:34
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Shapeshiftersame for Err http://repository.maemo.org unknown/free Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 213.155.157.9 80]19:34
Shapeshiftermh I guess that should say fremantle19:35
Shapeshifterand not unknown >.>19:35
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Shapeshifternevermind, it's working now.19:35
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Shapeshifterbut at least in the SDK the .install link to add repos seems to be broken.19:36
lardmanok, so if I destroy a box, but it contains widgets to which I still hold a reference, is the box destroyed and the widgets remain ok?19:38
lardmanhmm, must be a cleaner way to do this19:38
RST38hJaffa: I know, just being afraid that some part of the process will scre up (as always)19:38
pupnik_wow, the new fresh faces at tmo19:38
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pupnik_"what does dosbox emulate?"   ... /me crawls towards his coffin19:39
lardmantell them "boxes"19:40
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pupnik_dasbox19:40
pupnik_l m a o19:40
type_t2dos =microsoft operating (Disk Opera.. Sys..)< D O S19:41
type_t2the BALDER.img on a ubuntu .iso  is an image of FreeDOS.19:42
pupnik_ah?19:42
javispedroand what's FreeDOS doing in a ubuntu iso?19:42
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type_t2so can you use dosbox to work an Freedos floppy??19:42
RST38hpupnik: troll 'em!19:43
pupnik_i forgot.  think it has own dos builtin19:43
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javispedrodosbox has own dos builtin.19:43
type_t2they put it in i case you got to boot linux the Hard way using command line with dos ..Lin.. something.19:44
pupnik_lardman's offhand genius will be the foundation of my millions someday19:44
lcukyou know the charging animation when the device is switched off19:44
pupnik_das box19:44
javispedroin case you want to waste time I guess :)19:44
lcukcan i change that for amiga workbench19:44
ShapeshifterMh. I can't find the sqlite3 bindings for python in the repos. Well, at least not in extras-devel. There is an extras repo for fremantle, isn't there? it's not on that page19:44
lcuk<lardman> tell them "boxes"      hahahaha19:45
lardmanso many levels ;)19:45
type_t2javispedro Do you want to waste time?..19:45
timeless_mbpRST38h: so... one of the fields is a creation date19:45
javispedrono, I would like to have more time to waste =)19:45
timeless_mbpafaiu the creation date is how merges are handled19:46
* lardman has boxes, of the GTK persuasion, on the mind atm19:46
timeless_mbptwo nodes w/ the same creation stamp are related19:46
timeless_mbpand the one w/ the newer modification stamp wins19:46
timeless_mbp(at least, in general)19:46
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* timeless_mbp frowns19:47
timeless_mbpum... GeneralAntilles ?19:47
timeless_mbpwhy does the package promotion system record my ip address?19:47
timeless_mbpif it records my name, surely that's sufficient19:47
type_t2nothing is sufficient when Data Mining.19:48
timeless_mbpbut i don't want to be data mined19:48
timeless_mbpi am not a number!19:48
timeless_mbpare you number 2?19:48
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type_t2check your wallet and there is Licence number a SS number ..19:49
suihkulokkiI am not a number. I am a free man!19:49
DeadDodoYou're number 3456032. Now shut up.19:49
timeless_mbphttp://www.museum.tv/eotvsection.php?entrycode=prisonerthe19:49
timeless_mbptype_t2: i'm unlicensed :)19:49
thomastimjuego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html19:49
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timeless_mbphttp://www.freepatentsonline.com/3456032.html   UTILIZATION OF PROPANE RECOVERED FROM LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS19:50
suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: I only know that from sample iron maiden uses..19:50
suihkulokkifear of the dark \,./19:50
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: aww, we need to get you some episodes from the prinsoner19:50
timeless_mbps/prinsoner/prisoner/19:51
infobottimeless_mbp meant: suihkulokki: aww, we need to get you some episodes from the prisoner19:51
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lardman~lart Gnome for the taskbar locking up19:51
* infobot slaps Gnome upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh for the taskbar locking up19:51
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* Shapeshifter is still looking for a way to get python sqlite3 bindings into his sdk :|19:52
DeadDodoYou think Gnome's bad now? Wait until Gnome 3.0. It'll be the KDE crapfest all over again.19:52
* lardman will move to KDE then19:53
javispedrono, because Gnome3 is basically removing the taskbar, so at least it won't hang =)19:53
lardmanI'll simply move with Nokia ;)19:53
lardmanreally, news to me19:53
lardmansounds... interesting19:53
DeadDodoBy then, maybe KDE will be a decent desktop. It's getting better over time, although I don't think it'll ever quite get back to the level of the 3.x series.19:54
javispedronp, we'll switch to enlightment19:55
RST38hjavis: what is coming instead of task bar?19:55
* RST38h likes current gnome19:55
DeadDodoI'll link you a youtube vid of it, because it's sort of hard to explain. Imagine a virtual desktop switcher as a taskbar and launcher.19:55
javispedroRST38h: something weird with parts of it written in javascript19:55
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RST38hohmygod19:56
javispedrothat's all /me needs to know about it =)19:56
DeadDodoHere's a nice vid of a recent build: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjoUlCbVHDE19:56
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RST38hjavis: desktop widgets?19:57
DeadDodoNo desktop widgets that I've heard of, no.19:57
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DeadDodoOh wait, nevermind.19:57
RST38hhttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/09/gnome-3-quick-visual-tour.html19:58
javispedrobut I was thinking desktop widgets -- I think the transitions and rest of stuff is written in js19:58
javispedros/I was/I wasn't19:58
JaffaGNOME 3 seems to remind me of Maemo 5 :)19:58
RST38hyea19:58
* RST38h wishes people stopped "improving" desktops19:58
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* Jaffa leaves RST38h with his Windows 1.0 and GEM...19:59
javispedronow move the global menu bar to the top and tada!19:59
lcukwow gnome3 looks like liqbase19:59
RST38hWorkbench was fine19:59
DeadDodoIt reminds me of a bloody bad idea. There are rumors that Canonical's gonna hire people to fork Gnome because they think that Gnome 3 will kill their user base.19:59
JaffaNot that I think GNOME 3's going in the right direction (or the wrong one); but it's good to push these thoughts out there.19:59
* Jaffa guru meditates all over RST38h 20:00
javispedroseems more usable than the first videos I saw about it though20:00
javispedronow all it's missing is a classical task bar in the bottom20:00
RST38hno, this Gnome3 thing does look like Maemo520:00
javispedroadd a classical task bar in the bottom and remove the useless sidebar and you have a usable system again :)20:01
DeadDodojavispedro: No task bars... the designers claim they're against it. All apps are launched by zooming out and dragging them to a desktop.20:01
javispedroa usable system that is mostly the same as gnome 2 :D20:01
RST38hjavis: They seem to assume that an avregae user starts so many applications at once that he needs to SEARCH through them using a text box20:01
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javispedroand that "recent documents" needs 25% of my screen state20:02
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luke-jrJaffa: the right direction for GNOME 3 is Qt420:02
javispedrowhich is something I never used, and the only time I enter that menu is to clear it.20:02
lbt:D20:02
RST38hluke: Which is now owned by Nokia and not truly FOSS20:02
luke-jrRST38h: what?20:02
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lcukand a different language20:02
luke-jrlcuk: GNOME has never had a standard language20:03
lcukkde is goin great as it is20:03
RST38hjavis: Well, at least I do not see The Paperclip in GNOME320:03
luke-jrKDE is getting suckier and suckier20:03
RST38hjavis: Unless the sucker is hiding somewhere20:03
javispedroRST38h: it's right there on the sidebar.20:03
lcukbut thats the qt version of gnome20:03
javispedrojust wait for the slideshow plugin :)20:03
luke-jrlcuk: no, KDE has nothing to do with GNOME20:03
luke-jrKDE even predates GNOME20:03
lcukffs they do the same job20:03
lcukyou know what i mean20:04
RST38h"adly, Compiz and Gnome-Shell dont play nice, however this doesnt mean the end of eye-candy effects as gnome-Shell has slick animations all of its own thanks to Clutter! "20:04
RST38h(and what do I do if I have only got the IGD?)20:04
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javispedropray your brain gets used to the slow-mo desktop20:04
RST38hor downgrade to XFCE?20:05
DeadDodoI feel that the Linux desktop is suffering from a lack of good UI design. Current Gnome is okay, future Gnome looks bad, KDE isn't very good.20:05
lcukor stick with what you have/use an upgraded fork as discussed20:05
javispedroyou think everytime you change the desktop metaphor you gain new users. I see everytime someone changes the desktop metaphor they lose users.20:06
lardmanhmm, I now have an app where none of my widgets appear in portrait mode, and all come back for landscape20:06
javispedrowell, save for Apple. they just put Jobs on a show and Him'll take care of even selling something as .... as the Dock!20:06
RST38hlardman: some container is acting wrong?20:06
RST38hApple is different20:06
lardmanI have and HBox which contains an HBox + a VBox, and I switch a pair of box widgets between those two20:07
RST38hThose cultists will applaud even when you give them tactile 3D UI made of cow turds20:07
lardmansmello-vision20:07
javispedrosomeone ports Ogre -> the N900 can run GTA320:08
* javispedro sighs20:08
lardmando GTK widgets need to be destroyed or are they ref counted?20:08
lbtlardman: some containers take over management20:09
lardmane.g. I'm thinking of destroying a VBox and then placing the contents in an HBox on rotation, etc20:09
RST38hlardman: only the top one needs ot be20:09
RST38hthe rest goes with it20:10
lbtyou may want to move them and *then* destroy the top box20:10
lardmanah, so everything is destoryed underneath20:10
lardmanok20:10
lbtyes20:10
Stskeepsjavispedro: ogre was ported to beagleboard, last i read20:11
javispedrothere's now a port for the n900 in tmo20:11
igagislardman: do you use GTKmm?20:11
lardmanno20:11
lardmanI try to avoid C++20:11
lardmanis that C++?20:11
igagislardman: yes, it's a C++ wrapper of GTK+20:12
javispedroyes, GTKmm is C++20:12
Stskeepshmm20:13
pupnik_N900 scorched3d would be a challenge20:13
Stskeepsi wonder if qole could do Easy Diablo20:13
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Stskeepsfor running diablo-only apps on n90020:13
Stskeeps:P20:13
javispedroport diablo to n900!20:15
Stskeepsjavispedro: it isn't impossible for sure.. :P20:15
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pupnik_daimonin20:16
pupnik_gets u a nice mmorpg within n900 performance profile20:16
* RST38h thought javispedro meant the game20:16
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* javispedro stabs RST for thinking javispedro had joined the ordes of tmo users20:17
pupnik_i would like a free dungeon keeper20:17
pupnik_defending a dungeon against heroes was fun20:17
RST38hSeriously though, Diablo-like UI on top of Angband would rule20:17
crashanddie__so what's the new firmware all about?20:18
lardmannew firmware?20:18
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pupnik_RST38h: did you know that the diablo devs were roguelike players?  they consciously emulated the concept20:19
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crashanddie__lardman, /topic20:20
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lardmanah, few days old20:21
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RST38hpupnik: Of course I did, it does not take too much to see that :)20:24
TimpiiRST38h: there's Vulture's Eye and -Claw, but they're for Nethack and Slash'em20:24
RST38hpupnik: Of course, making it time-based rather than turn-based spoiled all the fun20:24
RST38hTimpii: Ahaaa, thanks, gonna check 'em20:24
* RST38h can probably live with Nethack based one20:24
RST38hLooks like it is based on Falcon's Eye20:25
lardmanargh, not getting on too well with adding and removing things from boxes20:25
Timpiiyip, falcon's eye stagnated a bit so they forked it20:26
RST38hlardman: it is messy :(20:26
RST38hlardman: what is your widget hierarchy right now?20:26
lardmanit's notebook( hbox( vbox, vbox) )20:27
RST38hjavispedro, qwerty, pupnik: Take a look at this little gem: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Vulture%27s20:27
RST38hPortable?20:27
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lardmanand I want to make it swap between that and notebook( vbox( vbox, vbox) )20:27
javispedroSDL -- should be,20:27
RST38hlardman: can you switch to vbox(hbox,hbox) or maybe vbox(hbox(vbox,vbox))?20:27
javispedrodunnou about the performance.20:27
qwerty12RST38h: You must've "known" me for long enough now to know that Nethack isn't my cup of tea :)20:28
RST38hjavis: Falcon's was pretty statis, performance show be ok20:28
RST38hqwerty: Not really =)20:28
lardmanRST38h: the two vboxes need to either sit next to one another in landscape or ontop of one another in portrait20:28
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RST38hlardman: ok, wrap'em all into another vbox20:31
pupnik_i love whoever made the url click in N900 terminal20:31
RST38hsee what happens20:31
RST38hlbt: still here?20:31
pupnik_tried porting vuktures eye in 2007 RST38h20:31
lardmanRST38h: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m42f2fde220:31
pupnik_my project dir had 200 subdirs20:31
RST38hpupnik: wow...why?20:32
konttorisomebody should add anti-alias function to border pixels in http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vultures_eye.png20:32
pupnik_thought it might be fun20:32
konttorianti-aliased transparency I mean20:32
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pupnik_so true20:32
RST38h200 dirs though?20:33
* RST38h salivates over that screenshot20:33
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RST38hlardman: Ok, one thing you may want to do is stop bothering with reordering widgets in containers20:33
lardmanhow do you mean?20:34
RST38hlardman: just kill the whole tree and recreate it from scratch. In fact, make a single function create_ui(GtkWidget *Parent)20:34
lardmanI need to keep the child widgets active ideally20:34
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RST38hlardman: That kills all parent's children and create them all anew20:34
lardmanotherwise I need to re-parse data, etc20:34
RST38his that costly?20:35
lardmanwell gst setup cost amongst other things20:35
lardmanso yeah20:35
RST38hhmmm...'cause I do not think anyone can guarantee you what happens when you rearrange existing widges in gtk+20:35
lardmanI was hoping that just removing the widgets from the HBox|VBox, and then setting the notepad entry to the new one would do the trick20:35
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RST38hok let us proceed on assumption that it is safe20:36
RST38hI do not see you removing hbox20:37
RST38honly removing two vboxes20:37
lardmanyeah I remove two vboxes from what is either an hbox in landscape or a vbox in portrait20:38
RST38hoh, here is a possible problem20:38
RST38hwho is the parent of your hbox and vbox?20:38
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lardmaneither a VBox or an HBox, which is the notepad entry20:39
RST38hwait20:39
lardmanappdata->tab[0]20:39
RST38hwho is the parent of appdata->tab[0]?20:39
lardmana notepad20:39
_|Nix|_Is the fremantle-extras-devel buildbot building?20:39
RST38hAll right. So the notepad owns both hbox and vbox at any given time?20:39
lardmanappdata owns all the entries20:40
lardmanah, perhaps I need to tell GTK that?20:40
_|Nix|_I've been waiting for, like, an hour for some resuts on Pidgin ...20:40
RST38happdata is just a struct, let us forget about it for now20:40
RST38hNix: Somebody murdered it today20:40
_|Nix|_Great ...20:40
RST38hOther people complained20:40
lardmanok, so at any one time, one of the H|VBox which will be contained in appdata->tab[0] is floating and empty20:41
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lardmanin fact which will be pointed to by appdata->tab[0]20:41
RST38hlardman: yea. but I think you need to remove the empty one from the notepad20:41
RST38hlardman: so that at any given time, the notepad only contains one widget, either vbox or hbox20:41
lardmanhmm, I can't just overwrite the pointer and it will be updated?>20:41
lardmanthat code is there at the bottom, but it didn't do anything20:42
RST38hI don't think so :)20:42
_|Nix|_I don't actually need it, if I can figure out why Application Manager seems to ignore packages available from rivial repositories ...20:42
_|Nix|_trivial, even ...20:42
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lardmanRST38h: my other thought was for appdata->tab[0] to be a static box, and I can then place my container V|HBox in it20:42
RST38hNix: care to quote the repo config?20:42
_|Nix|_I have one at deb http://192.168.1.33 ./ and it doesn't pick up the new version of Pidgin ...20:42
_|Nix|_... yet apt-get upgrade picks up the updates, and apt-cache policy also sees the newer package.20:43
RST38hRepo is probably set up wrongly...But I am not an expert on repos unfortunately :(20:43
lardmancan I create a GTKBox? It's not just there to be subclassed?20:43
Macerwhat are the pptp ports?20:43
lbtRST38h: back now20:43
Maceri can't seem to get this damn vpn to connect anymore and don't know why20:43
Macerunless tmob has blocked the ports altogether to prevent vpning from a g120:44
RST38hlardman: Ok, the appdata thing is completely bogus20:44
_|Nix|_RST38h: It's a really simple setup ... a directory full of .deb files plus a Packages file listing them ...20:44
StskeepsMacer: heh, probably20:44
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RST38hlardman: it carries no meaning other than let you "freeze" it in the rarely used Nokia's app free process (when it gets out of memory)20:44
_|Nix|_I'm mystified as to why HAM ignores the updates available therein ...20:44
MacerStskeeps: you busy now? was wondering if you could test teh vpn for me20:44
StskeepsMacer: very slow at getting into new things at this exact moment20:44
lardmanRST38h: for me appdata is a global which contains all of the data needed by the app20:44
RST38hlbt: Will a link to the page with documentation from the Gtk-friendly About box be sufficient?20:45
RST38hlbt: In terms of cdocumenting MG and my other apps?20:45
RST38hlardman: Exactly20:45
Macerdamn. ok20:45
lbtactive link would be great...20:45
RST38hlardman: The reason why this data is not just a bunch of global vars is to let Maemo take the whoel appdata and save it to disk, afaik20:45
lardmanRST38h: so if the fact that the struct holds a pointer to a gtk widget counts towards the ref counting that's fine20:45
lardmanyeah20:45
lardmanand to make it neat ;)20:46
RST38hlardman: But this has nothing to do with Gtk20:46
Macerdamn thsi sucks20:46
lardmanright, so I need to grab a reference20:46
Maceris there sshfs for xp? :)20:46
Macersince this vpn crap doesn't seem to be working all that well20:46
RST38hlardman: In Gtk, your hbox and vbox widgets are both children of another widget20:46
lardmanMacer: yeah I think there is actually20:46
Macerhm. that would work20:46
RST38hlardman: So, by looking at your code snippet I see that you keep them both as children20:47
lardmanMacer: but 3rd party, ping qwerty12_N90020:47
RST38hlardman: ANd my guess is that only one of them should be, the one you are currently using20:47
RST38hlbt: Then that is how I am going to do it.20:47
Macerheh20:47
Maceranybody up to test a vpn for me?20:47
Macerjust to see if it's teh phone.. since that is the only external network i can get on right now20:47
lardmanRST38h: well I'd like to swap between them, and as only one can contain the data, that's troublesome20:47
Macerit will connect locally20:47
qwerty12_N900Macer: There's Dokan, which mounts an SFTP server as a 10GB hard drive... Alternatives exist, but they aren't free20:48
Maceri don't thihnk i'd have to forward ports for pptp would i?20:48
lbtworks for me - although a Help button would be better -and you have a spare slot20:48
lardmanunless I place both in yet another box20:48
RST38hlbt: yea, but I may have a few other uses for it ;)20:48
Macerqwerty12_N900: can you test a vpn for me? :)20:48
RST38hIn fact, I have got a plenty of spare slots now, check the latest versions20:48
qwerty12_N900Macer: Sorry, I don't have OpenVPN set up20:48
Macerdoh20:48
Maceri need someoen with an xp box20:48
qwerty12_N900(Or installed, even)20:48
lbtGood - it was looking ..... full20:48
Maceri'm doing this in xp ;)20:48
Maceri just need to make sure someone can connect to the vpn20:49
Macerit was working before. i don't know wha thappened20:49
RST38hlardman: You won't be losing any data, as these boxes do not have to be destroyed, just disconnected from their current parent20:49
Maceri'm guessing a tmobile thing20:49
Maceri used to be able to tether and connect to it20:49
lardmanRST38h: that's what I thought I was doing?20:49
RST38hlardman: right now, you are not switching vbox and hbox, just moving stuff from one to another20:49
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RST38hlardman: which make sme conclude both hbox and vbox are children of the notebook20:50
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lardmanswapping and altering the appdata->tab[0]20:50
RST38haltering tab[0] does not do a thing, remember, that is YOUR OWN struct :)20:50
lardmanso that it just points to one of them20:50
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lardmanah crap20:50
lardmanof course20:50
lardmanthough.....20:50
lardmanno20:51
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doc|homeanyone know if it's possible to have the n900 set up as a wireless AP?20:53
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doc|homewould be nice to have an ipod touch, for example, connect to the internet via the n90020:53
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waowell, it should work20:54
RST38hwhy even use an ipod touch?20:54
waobut how..20:54
doc|homeRST38h: some apps on the ipod that aren't on the n90020:54
RST38hand you are willing to carry two gadgets that do the same thing a bit differently?20:55
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qwerty12_N900Well, one of 'em can phone...20:56
RST38h...and play video without reencoding...20:56
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RST38h...and has a keyboard...20:56
RST38h...and a decent resolution display...20:56
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qwerty12_N900Let me guess: You're not talking about the iPod Touch?20:57
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Macerwelp20:57
* RST38h cackles20:57
Macerlet me try otu this dokan crap :)20:57
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doc|homeRST38h: yes20:58
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_|Nix|_I had to turn on red-pill-mode and turn off "Ignore Packages From Wrong Domains" to see updates from that repo.20:58
RST38hSo, no more repositories outside of maemo.org???21:01
javispedrothat was in diablo too.21:01
javispedrosee file /etc/hildon-application-manager-domains/21:02
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lardmanRST38h: ah, working21:03
lardmanRST38h: and was before I posted the code too, I was just confused by the left-overs on my gst output window not being updated21:04
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lardmandoh!21:04
lardmanRST38h: but thanks for the help21:04
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mzaWill the calendar support iCal invites?21:05
mzathe SDK says unknown calendar file21:05
mzawhen opening the attachment from mail21:05
JaffaNow krisse's chiming in on the "MWN encroaches on our territory" meme. I'm resisting saying "perhaps if you weren't saying all the same thing and actually did the work I'm suggesting, I wouldn't need to suggest it".21:06
RST38hlardman: eh!21:06
RST38hJaffa: He has got a territory?21:06
qwerty12_N900RST38h: allaboutmaemo21:07
Jaffas/He/She/?21:07
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javispedrobut isn't the idea of MWN more "lower level" than _any_ maemo fansite?21:07
RST38hJaffa: I have never seen Krisse IRL, still assuming He21:07
RST38hThe name looked male, although who am I to guess Finnish names?21:08
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ShadowJKwhat's mwn?21:08
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RST38hJaffa's proposed news site21:09
ShadowJKRST38h, "Krisse" sounds a bit unigender to me21:09
ShadowJKbut i'd probably assume female21:09
RST38hShadowJK: there is a real name, a moment21:09
ShadowJKkrisse can be a real name too :-)21:09
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RST38hyea21:10
RST38hBut it is ...what do you call it? a short abbreviation of a full name, isn't it?21:10
lardmanis there an easy way to get a gtk widget such as a drawing_area to redraw itself?21:10
ShadowJKRST38h, something like that21:10
qwerty12_N900Krisse Juorunen21:10
RST38h_update()?21:11
derfEasier than what?21:11
RST38hqwerty: yea!21:11
qwerty12_N900In related news, I should be recieving my cyberstalking license soon21:11
lardmanah gdk_window_invalidate_rect()21:11
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RST38hqwerty: No until you start guessing people postal addresses by their nicks!21:12
* ShadowJK wonders if that name is real21:12
derflardman: gtk_widget_queue_draw().21:12
lardmanah, cool, thanks21:12
qwerty12_N900ShadowJK: It sounds Finnish enough =)21:12
* qwerty12_N900 hides21:12
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ShadowJKYes, but morphing normal words into names is easy in finnish :)21:13
Macerblah. this is starting to drive me nuts21:14
Macercan anybody here try to connect to a vpn for me?21:15
Macerit seems to connect and tries to verify the username/pw then loses it :(21:15
Macergoing to have to do something drastic21:16
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RST38hlike....stop trying to run it? =)21:16
lcukdoes anyone know how i would save a sequence of yuv frames (in memory) into an avi perhaps using compression21:16
lcukcan gstreamer cope with this kind of thing?21:17
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luke-jrlcuk: I have a script for that21:19
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lcukluke-jr, mind digging it out?21:20
sijkJaffa: Krisse is a Finnish female name, either real name or nick name for Kristiina21:20
RST38hAhha!21:20
RST38hSo, assuming Kristie from now on21:21
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luke-jrlcuk: | yuvtoppm ... | ppmtoy4m ... | mpeg2enc ...21:22
luke-jrlcuk: tweak as desired21:22
RST38hAnd, btw, mpeg is lossy21:23
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crashanddieJaffa, http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8630/jaffaeatinganddrinkingg.jpg21:23
* lcuk ponders a way to redirect live yuv screen out to a stream and running thos21:23
lcukRST38h, dont really care21:23
lcukthanks luke-jr21:24
RST38hcrashanddie: Notice the characteristic red eyes21:24
luke-jrlcuk: for AVI, I just feed a PNG format into ffmpeg21:24
RST38hcrashanddie: He is definitely looking for the next victim21:24
crashanddieJaffa, I really don't want to trouble you, but that's not retouched, and with the red eyes, and the glowing drink, you could be in Merlin21:24
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crashanddieRST38h, or maybe he was looking at one of the nokia chicks, or waitresses, or community chicks21:25
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crashanddiecuz damn, the selection was fine21:25
lcukluke-jr, compressing a new png image every frame takes > 0.5seconds21:25
lcuki wanted realtime or nearly recording21:25
lcukso flat yuv is simplest21:26
RST38hcrash; Does their blood taste any different?21:26
lcukcrashanddie, you lie21:26
luke-jrlcuk: ffmpeg might take it21:26
crashanddielcuk, I do?21:26
lcukit was you that were eying them up21:26
crashanddielcuk, no, I got phone numbers, different thing21:26
luke-jrlcuk: ffmpeg lists yuv4mpeg pipe format21:26
crashanddieAnd I had dinner with the waitress the other night21:26
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crashanddiewell, if kebab after hours is considered as dinner21:27
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: so, http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/164/ is up21:27
lcuklol21:27
lcukluke-jr, cool ill have a dig see if i can push out frames21:27
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PaulFertserStskeeps: hey :D21:28
Stskeepsevening PaulFertser21:29
Stskeepshow is it going?21:29
PaulFertserStskeeps: i came back with good news, not useless talks as usual :)21:29
PaulFertserStskeeps: got Debian working after solving few issues.21:29
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Stskeepscool21:29
PaulFertserStskeeps: i hope you had a nice weekend too :)21:29
Stskeepswhat was the issue?21:29
PaulFertserStskeeps: really, when i argue it's not to offend or something, i really appreciate the work all you honest guys do :D21:30
StskeepsPaulFertser: yeah yeah, let's stick to the technical stuff :)21:30
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PaulFertserStskeeps: the first and main issue is initramfs compatibility with 2.6.30 kernel. Major number for mmcblk0 was changed, which obviously produced strange and unexpected problems due to static device nodes in initramfs.21:31
Stskeepsright, we normally call it initfs21:31
Stskeepsand yes, that'd do some problems21:31
luke-jrPaulFertser: should have been expected21:32
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luke-jrnothing newsworthy there21:32
PaulFertserStskeeps: very dire problems i'd say since it's kind of hard to debug without any good feedback whatsoever, i needed to compile a kernel with a framebuffer.21:32
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luke-jrPaulFertser: you should be compiling your kernel w/ a fb anyway :P21:32
luke-jrPaulFertser: the evdev stuff changed too IIRC21:33
luke-jrso I bet you couldn't use arrow keys there21:33
PaulFertserluke-jr: hm, i hoped that the recent initfs is supposed to be compatible with the latest kernels. And yes, keys do not work but i didn't bother, just waited for timeout.21:33
StskeepsPaulFertser: the good news is that initfs can be skipped.21:33
Stskeepsor modified.21:34
luke-jrPaulFertser: sure, depending on what you mean by "recent"21:34
luke-jrlp:~luke-jr/+junk/n8x0-bootmenu-autodetect-evdev <-- branch of bootmenu that fixes the keyboard issue21:34
PaulFertserStskeeps: when i skipped initfs, i got the device powered off in a minute, so special care should be taken to start all those caring daemons.21:34
luke-jrlp:~luke-jr/+junk/n8x0-bootmenu-kexec <-- bootmenu w/ kexec support (untested)21:34
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StskeepsPaulFertser: YES21:34
Stskeepserr, yes21:34
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Stskeepsluke-jr: and why didn't you submit those patches? :P21:35
luke-jrStskeeps: I pushed them to LP and told someone on IRC21:35
luke-jrthat's how I submit stuff21:35
luke-jr<.<21:35
PaulFertserStskeeps: another problem is that initfs assumes that initramfs is mounted rw which wasn't true for my kernel.21:35
timeless_mbpPaulFertser: isn't that more of a mistake in your kernel?21:35
luke-jrPaulFertser: err, initramfs is usually read-only21:35
luke-jrIIRC, most of the time it's squashfs21:36
PaulFertserStskeeps: other minor issues with debian included a segfaulting plugin in ts.conf, slightly wrong xorg.conf i copied from somewhere, missing pointercal, stuff like that.21:36
StskeepsPaulFertser: yeah, that initfs is mounted rw? that's new21:36
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pupnik_we should do some security auditing21:36
PaulFertsertimeless_mbp: i assume, no. It's common to mount root ro by default. And on n810 it's not actually initramfs, rather a NAND partition with jffs2 on it.21:36
luke-jrPaulFertser: I suggest you read over our Gentoo stuff21:36
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* timeless_mbp frowns21:37
timeless_mbpi'm thirsty, but i'm not sure i'm hungry enough to get dinner21:37
PaulFertserStskeeps: there's some "cp /mnt/new_root/linuxrc /tmp/linuxrc" which didn't work with initfs mounted ro.21:37
konttorinice, I just saw cali reviewing n900 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3z8YCzb0vI21:37
timeless_mbpbut i have to decide _now_21:37
StskeepsPaulFertser: ah, no, but /tmp is a tmpfs21:37
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luke-jrPaulFertser: /tmp is tmpfs21:37
PaulFertserluke-jr: thanks for the suggestion21:37
luke-jr!21:37
luke-jrwhy is slonopotamus.org down :(21:38
PaulFertserluke-jr: well, that means it's probably in error either in my kernel (compiled without tmpfs) or lack of /etc/fstab on initfs for whatever reason or something like that. Anyway i do not see a reason to copy linuxrc from new_root anywhere, i think it can be started from there as well.21:38
luke-jrPaulFertser: I don't think initfs uses fstab21:39
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PaulFertserluke-jr: i wasn't in the mood to investigate that thouroughly given i lack serial console anyway. I just modified the script to exec /mnt/new_root/linuxrc, it worked "like a charm".21:39
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PaulFertserluke-jr: (branch with evdev fixes) thanks. As a sidenote i do not understand why anyone might want to use bazaar when there's git and mercurial ;)21:42
luke-jrPaulFertser: Bazaar is easier, since it fits with the historical RCS syntax for commands21:43
luke-jralso, git's support for subversion repositories is crap21:43
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yigalhello21:44
crashanddiegit needs proper windows integration21:44
PaulFertserluke-jr: i tried git-svn and liked it tbh. And in bazaar it's not obvious how to do something like "git format-patch" to send a plain-text readable e-mail etc. Git seems to be so much more flexible, you can use it any way you like.21:44
StskeepsPaulFertser: so, what is not working in your kernel snapshot?21:44
yigalyou guys probably already saw this, this is rediculous, http://maemoproject.com/21:45
luke-jrcrashanddie: who uses Windows?21:45
crashanddieand git needs a web-based management system allowing the setup of new repos, that are available directly online21:45
crashanddieluke-jr, my whole company?21:45
lcukyigal, perfectly normal day i nthe life of the n90021:45
PaulFertserStskeeps: i'll know soon. For today my task was to start debian and now my friend is going to have some struggles on his own.21:45
luke-jrPaulFertser: git assumes you just want to import from subversion21:45
lcukit generates it own stuff all the time21:45
RST38hyigal: Yes, we saw it. There are 250+ varieties of mushrooms in the Finland forests.21:45
yigal:)21:45
luke-jrPaulFertser: bzr diff <-- outputs a patch21:45
PaulFertserluke-jr: no, git-svn allows for comfortable two-way communication with svn. I used it myself.21:46
ali1234luke-jr: git diff <- outputs a patch21:46
ali1234that isn't quite the same thing as format-patch, which outputs a patch series, or git send-email which sends it to your favourite mailing list for reviewal21:47
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crashanddieprobably one of the best slashdot comments ever: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3291&cid=139531521:47
PaulFertserluke-jr: yes, but what if you want to send an e-mail that has description, commit message and patch and is directly applicable with "git am"? I tried to do the same with bazaar but couldn't find a way, somewhere it's written that it's not desired function.21:47
luke-jrPaulFertser: bzr-svn is completely transparent; you almost never notice the other end is Subversion21:47
PaulFertserluke-jr: same with git-svn i think21:47
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luke-jrPaulFertser: it's not desired, as such a method inherently loses a lot of info21:47
* Stskeeps ponders idly that most people favour turning maemo.org into a non-profit foundation/company on http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/open_source_software_distributed_via_store-ovi-com/21:47
Chani:/21:48
ali1234luke-jr: with git it does not lose any info, because the patch files it outputs retain all the commit data21:48
luke-jrPaulFertser: better to send a repo to merge21:48
Chanidon't leave your n900 charging overnight. this is hte second time I've gone to sleep with it nearly done charging, and woken up with it totally dead and refusing to charge21:48
PaulFertserluke-jr: yet in the "git world" this method works quite good, especially with the mailing lists.21:48
luke-jrali1234: it doesn't21:48
ali1234luke-jr: what information does it lose?21:48
luke-jrali1234: merge information?21:48
ali1234luke-jr: no, it doesn't21:49
luke-jranyhow, git and bzr are both nice21:49
luke-jrgit just has a learning curve, whereas bzr is more user friendly21:49
ali1234i will agree with that21:49
ali1234i didn't like git until about 3 months after i started using it21:49
ali1234then it clicked21:49
RST38hChani: Never happened here21:50
luke-jrI'm disappointed that not even git supports proper cherry picking21:50
ali1234anyway, when you merge on git, you get a commit merge, unless there was no merge conflicts. that commit will appear in an exported patch series, preserving the merge info21:50
ali1234and, git cherry-pick has always worked fine for me21:51
luke-jrali1234: when I had to cherry-pick with git, it didn't act like it saved ANY metainformation, except a revision ID in the log message21:52
luke-jrI can only imagine if I did merging now it would have issues21:52
PaulFertserSo it seems bazaar wants to impose its understanding of the "best practicies" on you while git gives you complete freedom and transparency of operations.21:52
* javispedro ponders why "Fixing Ovi" is not a solution in that brainstorm item.21:52
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luke-jrPaulFertser: I use bzr-svn on a regular basis with my work21:52
RST38hMhm. Poor krisse is really pissed now...21:53
ChaniI do wish git would automatically record what branch something came from21:53
PaulFertserluke-jr: so did i with git-svn ;)21:53
Stskeepsjavispedro: suggest it?21:53
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Oh noez! Will she storm off again?!21:53
RST38hWhat have you done to krisse, you elitist technopigs?!?21:53
ShadowJKChani, it will just have to deal with it, i doubt n900 would last much beyond breakfast for me if it wasn't on charger during night21:53
ali1234Chani: the hash records that info: from the hash you can see where it came from with git show <hash>21:53
* RST38h ponders on the proper translation for the word "ozalupit'"21:54
Proteousdamp dragon21:54
Chaniali1234: really? hmm, i've dcommitted everything now so I can't check21:54
ali1234the only thing that really screws up the history is git rebase21:55
Chanigit show on a git-svn commit just shows the log and the diff.21:55
javispedroStskeeps: I will but then I will vote it down :)21:56
* Chani yawns21:56
* JosefAssad wonders how massive any maemo foundation liability coverage would be21:56
PaulFertserStskeeps: is it considered important for Mer to fully support 2.6.30 kernel?21:57
StskeepsPaulFertser: getting newer kernels is a plus for all inhabitations of the ecosystem.21:57
PaulFertserStskeeps: it's obvious21:57
PaulFertserStskeeps: but is it one of the "immediate targets"?21:57
StskeepsPaulFertser: yes, i hate being stuck at this kernel version21:58
luke-jrStskeeps: how goes gpsdriver code? :p21:58
Stskeepsluke-jr: ask me in december21:58
luke-jrok21:58
Stskeepsright now we're not going to 2.6.30 cos some things are broken and i'm not sure WLAN driver supports PSM21:58
Jaffacrashanddie: I AM MEEEERRLIN. Stskeeps should bow before me.21:58
Stskeepswhich is essential21:58
crashanddieJaffa, i'd say we're starting to have some pretty compelling evidence that you're not human22:00
crashanddiehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4001322448/22:00
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Jaffacrashanddie: sub-human sounds about right.22:00
crashanddiebowing, transfer of scrolls, targeting unsuspecting victims, drinking liquid gold...22:00
RST38hun-human is the correct specification22:00
RST38has in enemy to everything humans stand for =)22:00
PaulFertserStskeeps: yep, the the power consumption that n810 shows with the stock kernel and maemo is just unbelievably impressive.22:01
RST38hyou and the General, two enemies of the humankind...22:01
pupnik_:) PaulFertser you have comparisons?22:02
alteregoqwerty12_N900: you about?22:02
qwerty12_N900alterego: yessir22:02
PaulFertserpupnik_: all other devices i know use suspend2ram, so it's not directly comparable with zero-clock and extensive PSM support all over the place in n810.22:02
alteregoDo you need to do antything to let me be the maintainer of the ruby stuff?@22:03
qwerty12_N900alterego: I'd have thought a change of the name would be enough?22:03
alteregoMaybe this stuff takes time.22:03
alteregoNo, there's someting in the promotion interface that keeps it.22:03
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alteregoI might ask whoever to clear ruby from all the repos so I can upload the stuff from scratch.22:04
crashanddiehow about we don't put ruby in the repos?22:06
crashanddieJust delete it and blacklist it22:06
alteregoWhy?22:06
alteregoWhat would that acheive?22:06
crashanddieNO RUBY22:06
crashanddieerhm22:06
alteregom'hmm22:06
crashanddieI just found my fake police ID card22:06
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qwerty12_N900crashanddie: From your stripping days? :p22:06
crashanddieqwerty12_N900, not really22:07
crashanddieqwerty12_N900, from working with the police (i won't say which one), for their smartcards22:07
qwerty12_N900Hehe22:07
crashanddiewe had to do some tests, so we quickly designed some layout for the cards, took pictures, added info and printed22:07
crashanddiething is, the layout is like 90% the same as what they're using now22:07
PaulFertserStskeeps: wouldn't it be nice to have all the necessary daemons started from rootfs rather than from initfs? And also i'm afraid some of them are compiled for OABI.22:08
crashanddieI don't have the nice shiny 3d film on the card, nor the certificates, but still22:08
StskeepsPaulFertser: nah, they're not22:08
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StskeepsPaulFertser: but they're built for uclibc22:10
PaulFertserStskeeps: i think i saw some error about OABI during boot of initfs so i enabled OABI_COMPAT, i think i can run readelf on all initfs binaries when i get access to the device again.22:11
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Stskeepsit's always good to support oabi i guess22:11
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PaulFertserStskeeps: why?22:12
Ceron^http://naurunappula.com/52066722:12
PaulFertserStskeeps: to run obsolete binary-only stuff? i'm not going into this discussion again ;)22:12
StskeepsPaulFertser: i think error may be from uclibc built with oabi support? dunno22:13
alteregogrrr :(22:13
PaulFertserStskeeps: i think always requiring initfs to start daemons is not exactly common way anyway and might be confusing for the newcomers.22:15
StskeepsPaulFertser: you need tricks on these devices.22:15
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PaulFertserStskeeps: i think if you run the daemons early in the boot process when you start /sbin/init directly it'd be still ok.22:16
StskeepsPaulFertser: that's what some do, yeah22:16
Stskeepslike a init=/linuxrc or something22:17
pupnik_the internet is just getting crippled right now22:19
pupnik_dude made a fielf22:20
pupnik_dude made a field-of-view patch for bioshock.  they apparently got it removed from the net?22:21
PaulFertserStskeeps: (/linuxrc) it's still too hackish imho, i think many embedded platforms run without additional scripts.22:21
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StskeepsPaulFertser: yes, but n8x0 isn't a typical one. either way, your port, your choice22:22
PaulFertserStskeeps: i can't see what makes n8x0 that different from others. Most devices are equipped with a watchdog of some kind and require initialisation of other devices on boot.22:23
PaulFertserCan anyone please tell me how is internal SD card connected on n810? I'm wondering what kernel option should i enable for it to work.22:26
alteregoAnyone here ever had to become a maintainer of a package that already had a maintainer in the maemo5 extras promotional interface?22:27
alteregoI'm clicking on the "become maintainer" link but nothing seems to happen after I follow that process.22:27
javispedrooh, it worked for me a few weeks ago :P22:27
alteregojavispedro: did the process take any time?22:27
alteregoOr was it instantaneous?22:28
RST38halterego: why not add your name to the maintainers line inside the package itself?22:28
javispedroinstantaneous and without confirmation :P22:28
alteregoRST38h: already done22:28
RST38hwon't that make maemo.org guess you as the second maintainer?22:28
javispedromy guess is that everything is dead22:28
javispedrowasn't the autobuilder broken a few hours ago?22:28
RST38hyep22:28
qwerty12_N900We need you, Niels!22:28
StskeepsPaulFertser: as mmc.. :P22:28
javispedroyeah, he's out for a few weeks and everything break.22:29
PaulFertserStskeeps: omap-mmc? That's for external.22:29
RST38hThat is not normal btw. X-Fade leaves for vacation and hell breaks loose22:29
alteregoHe's been gone ages :(22:29
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javispedroqwerty12 already owns the N901!22:34
javispedroyou should configure your client to use N910 or N920 instead of N90122:34
javispedrothis way you'll bring panic to the masses every time :)22:34
qwerty12_N900"N666" =)22:34
javispedroEvilQwerty_N66622:35
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ali1234PaulFertser: on n800 both the mmc slots are running off mmci-omap22:39
PaulFertserali1234: i see, thanks a lot22:40
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ali1234that's the /sys platform driver name22:40
ali1234it does appear to be the same thing as omap-mmc22:42
PaulFertserali1234: i understand22:42
PaulFertserali1234: now i read the code and i see it's multi-slot driver, with 2 slots specified for n800/n810.22:42
PaulFertserali1234: thanks again :)22:42
RST38hIsn't N901 an ASUS? =)22:47
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luke-jrRST38h: IIRC that's M90022:52
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KMFDMthis is incredibly annoying. i flashed my device but as the -devel and -testing repos refuse to work I can't re-add a lot of apps22:54
KMFDMI guess i'm going to manually download the debs and install that way22:54
lbtso KMFDM what's up with the repos?22:54
KMFDMhttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/freemantle/free/binary-armel/Packages 404 not found [ip: 92.122.188.49 80]22:56
KMFDMi get the same thing for non-free and on extras-testing free and non-free22:57
qwerty12_N900KMFDM: fremantle; not freemantle22:57
lcukspeaking of freemantl, Stskeeps what happened to it lol22:57
lcukfreemantle22:57
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: so um23:00
timeless_mbpzenity showed me something23:00
timeless_mbpbut the theming was odd23:00
timeless_mbpdo i need something magical to get standard theming?23:00
qwerty12_N900root?23:00
timeless_mbpyeah i'm root23:00
qwerty12_N900run-standalone.sh zenity23:00
crashanddieoh ffs23:01
crashanddielandlord is in living room, and iplayer is down23:01
crashanddiecan't watch top gear :(23:02
qwerty12_N900crashanddie: Join me in grabbing it off a torrent later23:02
crashanddiehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/watchlive/23:02
crashanddiew00t23:02
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GeneralAntillesHey, who's surprised, rcadden is being silly.23:17
GeneralAntillesOh, screw krisse.23:18
GeneralAntilleshttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=38613823:18
RST38hhttp://zchydem.enume.net/?p=149  <=== Symbian/S60 people brought their "goodies" to Harmatan23:21
RST38h