IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-11-20

mzanot saying i want android, i hated my G100:00
mzastill be neat00:00
GeneralAntillesmza, better off porting the JVM00:00
realitygapsqwerty12_N810: ive been using it to dl eastenders :) but streaming is a no go so far from my trials. got no place left on the device for an unoptified mplayer either anymore00:00
GeneralAntillesRunning full Android is entirely pointless.00:00
simulaheh00:00
kynkyonce the jvm ported, we get lots of potential extras  :)00:00
* timeless chuckles00:01
* simula is happy with Qt00:01
timelessturns out my cousin works for a company which wrote software for the n800/n81000:01
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, want to join forces00:01
qwerty12_N810realitygaps: Heh. :) Maybe try gstreamer-ffmpeg and see if they play in the default media player? :)00:02
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zaheerm-lprealitygaps, i can get the streaming working with gstreamer00:02
janikynky: mm i've seen some metions about jamelino or what its called. is that project going forwards ?00:02
* qwerty12_N810 thanks zaheerm-lp again for gstreamer-ffmpeg00:02
realitygapszaheerm-lp: cool what can i do to enable that?00:02
zaheerm-lpmy plan for zoutube was to have iplayer support too00:02
kynkythat in extras-devel ?00:02
zaheerm-lpkynky, yah it'll move to extras-testing when i push zoutube there00:03
timelessjani: jalimo?00:03
janioh. so its that far already =)00:03
GeneralAntillestimeless, just one big happy Maemo family, eh? ;)00:03
* realitygaps thinks zoutube kicks ass :) but is still on -10 as the later version didnt play videos anymore00:03
janitimeless: something like that =)00:03
kynkyzaheerm-lp, sweet00:03
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, oh shit, doesn't it?00:03
realitygapszaheerm, actually i think it was the search that didnt work anymore, havent tried in a coupla days00:03
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, oh i fixed that :)00:03
realitygapszaheerm, oh cool ill grab a newer version then00:04
dmj726zaheerm-lp: any progress on zope?00:04
zaheerm-lplatest version in extras-devel has that working, i broke it when adding gpodder integration00:04
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realitygapsthere is gpodder integration?00:04
mzastupid question time...00:04
mzawhen you take a picture, does to make a snapping noise?00:04
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, yep, select the menu on the video list (screen with thumbnails), and it allows you to subscribe to that list with gpodder00:04
mzai hate that about my blackberry00:04
realitygapszaheerm, installing from devel right now...00:05
realitygapsmza: mine just goes 'operation failed' when i try to take a pic :)00:05
mzarealitygaps, dont tell me that!00:05
zaheerm-lpi am currently working on a nice way to have  full screen video and the controls (play/pause + seekbar)00:05
realitygapsmza: no-one else seems to have that problem, yet...00:05
mzathis device is what i've been waiting for, FOREVER00:05
realitygapsmza: yeah me too, dont worry it is THAT device :)00:06
qwerty12_N810mza: Hehe, I remember patching my Sony Ericsson to remove that, too... But if you're in Silent mode, it doesn't make a noise00:06
mzaive been looking for "the perfect device" for soooo long00:06
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realitygapslots of apps dont do sound with silent mode on, like zoutube didnt last time i tried and also the radio00:06
zaheerm-lpdmj726, just got back from bcn last night, want to fix it this weekend00:06
kynkymza me200:06
Anprheya00:06
dmj726zaheerm...how about being able to swipe in the controls00:06
Anprhello realitygaps00:06
zaheerm-lpdmj726, swipe to previous video?00:06
zaheerm-lpdmj726, or swipe from bottom to bring controls00:07
timelessoh.. does anyone here have a media player that doesn't suck00:07
dmj726ok...I have a break next week, so I'm hoping I can port an app that needs zope00:07
* javispedro remembers oldie palmos where he basically had to HOPE applications wouldn't make sounds when muted00:07
timelessmy n900 is on loan to someone who used it00:07
dmj726swipe to bring in controls00:07
mzai really want to make it a business device00:07
kynkyeven though n900 is pretty powerful, dont think alot of reviewers who mark n900 down alot, realise its awesome potential00:07
* realitygaps trying to get amsn with webcam to work00:07
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mzawhich means, iCal(caldav)00:07
mzaand push mail00:07
Dantonicwoah... Amazon just bumped up the price by $5000:07
Anprhey timeless :) how r u ?00:07
hrw|gonehttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/11/19/played-a-bit-with-maemo-5-sdk/00:07
mzawas thinking i might compile my own MTA00:07
timelessand he just demod that the movies thing has no useful jumping w/in a movie00:07
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mzaand run imapd against localhost00:07
Dantonicit is now $609 before rebate!00:08
hrw|gonebeware nokia maemo team!00:08
timelessand when you leave a movie, you can't see which movie you just watched00:08
hrw|gone;D00:08
* hrw|gone -> sleep00:08
kynkymza, should be eeasy enough to port1 i would have thought00:08
zaheerm-lptimeless, useful jumping?00:08
timelesswhich sucks if your movies were all filmed w/ your n900 on the same day00:08
* javispedro has nearly a gigabyte of iceweasel core dumps (probably all of them caused by libflashplayer.so)00:08
timelesszaheerm: "seeking"00:08
mzakynky, yea, i wanna try postfix and dovecot:-P use dyndns to deliver mail to my phone00:08
zaheerm-lptimeless, the media player has seeking00:08
mzaprolly sounds crazy00:08
timelesszaheerm: the n900 was running the summit release00:09
timelessand the movies were recorded w/ the n900 camera app in video mode00:09
timelesseach time i tried to seek, it just closed the movie00:09
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javispedroah, gstreamer.00:10
timelessalso, can someone tell me if there's a filed bug for the fact that calendar doesn't have a day picker that shows a molnth view?00:11
realitygapsqwerty12_N810: is the fbreader in extras-devel with the volume switch page turn patch?00:11
zaheerm-lptimeless, it works fine for me00:11
timelessif one wants to setup an event (or recurrence) one doesn't usually want to manually add 7 to the date00:12
qwerty12_N810realitygaps: Nope, just the one on qwerty12.qole.org00:12
timelessi searched and didn't find a calendar bug, but i'm sick/exhausted00:12
qwerty12_N810realitygaps: Not my work, so I can't just upload...00:12
edgar2timeless, how do you mean day picker that shows a month view?00:12
realitygapsqwerty12_N810: ah, just got offered an update so thought it might be. Read around 400 pages already thanks to that patch :)00:12
timelessgan: that movie isn't playing nicely00:12
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, do you have python code to get iplayer programme details etc.?00:12
GeneralAntillestimeless, which?00:13
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realitygapszaheerm-lp: nope ive been running get-iplayer and the cgi web interface in qoles chroot00:13
timelessedgar: most calendar apps let you see a grid w/ a month of days00:13
realitygapszaheerm, the easy way not the right way00:13
timelessso you can say "ah, a week from friday" by finding friday and clicking the box below it00:13
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, get-iplayer is perl right?00:13
realitygapsyep afaik00:13
timelessthe calendar app has a month view00:13
zaheerm-lpok so will need a little translation00:13
timelessbut you can't use that from inside create event00:14
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, the iphone/ipod touch iplayer videos should be fine with the dsp codecs in gstreamer on the n90000:14
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zaheerm-lprealitygaps, so the trick is to figure out the urls and handle the metadata00:15
realitygapszaheerm, i can watch them in the media player (occasionally they crash but could be a bad dl) but no stream....00:15
realitygapszaheerm, i can run it and give you the error if you like00:15
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, please do00:15
realitygapszaheerm, as the web interface attempts to open the media player... give me a coupla minutes just finishing up testing amsn and chatting with the dev on #amsn00:16
zaheerm-lpsure00:16
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edgar2i see, you were pointing at the lack overview when deciding the date of an event00:16
timelessedgar: again, it's also for picking an end date00:17
edgar2yeah, start date and end date00:17
timelessif it were obly a one time event thing00:17
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edgar2very useful for creating recurring events00:17
timelessthe ui team could say "oh, just use the month view first"00:18
timelessbut that's bogus for repeating events00:18
realitygapszaheerm, the gpodder integration is great!00:18
zaheermrealitygaps, :)00:18
timelesscan anyone trigger https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6228 ? i can't00:18
povbotBug 6228: scandinavian letters (å, ä, ö) not recognized when keyboard-creating an event00:18
edgar2i filed that one.00:19
timelessbut i'm using ukeyboard (one ver out of date) and an old os image00:19
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edgar2and can reproduce it still00:21
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edgar2fw 42-11 on a summit device00:21
zaheermrealitygaps, i'm not sure how well gpodder works with youtube atom feeds, but thp suggested adding it to zoutube so yah hopefully it does work well00:21
timelessedgar2: recruit confirmation here :)00:21
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: I (mis)read that as "MS Researcher" and jumped :p00:22
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, heheh00:22
edgar2so you're saying you can reproduce the bug 6228 (using the finnish-swedish keyboard layout)?00:22
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6228 scandinavian letters (å, ä, ö) not recognized when keyboard-creating an event00:22
realitygapszaheerm, ive subscribe to a couple of searches and they seem to been downloading ok00:22
zaheermrealitygaps, great00:22
timelessi'm saying it worksforme00:22
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, fyi MS$ PT loves me :P00:22
realitygapszaheerm, getting iplayer.cgi up and running now00:22
timelessi get those chars00:22
edgar2even when you start an event?00:23
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Wait until I send them a link to the Community Council Wiki page :p00:23
edgar2because that's when i don't. å ä ö gets recognized only after the event window has been created00:23
VDVsxqwerty12_N810, the funny thing it that I received a academy prize from them, that was funny :P00:24
timelessthe nokia store in HEL is remodeling *now*00:24
Shapeshiftermhhh, how sweet is that. I'll be able to use nfs on my n900 right? Just like a real computer? right? right? :D overjoyed of that thought00:24
edgar2so note that when the event title is already visible, å ä ö input is ok.00:24
edgar2but not before.00:25
qwerty12_N810VDVsx: Hehe :P00:25
realitygapszaheerm, any idea what resolution i should try stream at?00:26
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realitygapszaheerm, and flv or mov?00:27
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, how does it stream it?00:27
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, over rtmp or http?00:27
realitygapszaheerm, i think over http but im not sure00:27
zaheerm-lpthe mp4 would be http00:28
timelessi think i broke image viewer00:28
zaheerm-lpwhat is streaming it, get_iplayer or bbc?00:28
javispedrols00:28
VDVsx-la00:28
javispedrooh no, not stupid z-order again00:28
javispedro=)00:28
realitygapszaheerm, get_iplayer is streaming it.. actually a browser error  /var/tmp could not be saved because an unknown error occurred.00:28
realitygapszaheerm, must have got the mediaplayer error a different way00:29
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, ok not sure how get_iplayer works...00:29
realitygapszaheerm, get_iplayer has a web pvr interface so im trying to click in the browser to stream it out00:29
zaheerm-lpjust downloaded it to read00:29
GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, find yourself a UPnP server?00:29
* VDVsx suspects that the autobuilder is stuck :(00:29
realitygapszaheerm, im running the get_iplayer.cgi for pvr functions  - http://linuxcentre.net/getiplayer/get_iplayer-pvr-manager00:30
realitygapsGeneralAntilles: not sure i understand00:30
zaheerm-lpthere is an n95_wifi iplayer profile00:30
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GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, you're trying to stream media content to the tablet?00:31
Shapeshifterhas anyone with an n900 tried running nfs on it and getting files from another box, as well as running the server to see the space on another box?00:31
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realitygapsGeneralAntilles: trying to stream live bbc tv (and recorded show streams) from the bbc iplayer website00:31
realitygapszaheerm, using the iplayer.cgi, commands like mplayer -cache 1024 "http://localhost/iplayer?ACTION=stream&PROGTYPES=livetv&PID=<PID>&MODES=flashnormal&OUTTYPE=nnn.flv" should work00:32
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, ok i see the --stream option that streams it to stdout, having a look at the code00:32
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zaheerm-lprealitygaps, so that should work also with gst-launch playbin uri="http://......." too00:32
GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, ah, nevermind.00:33
realitygapszaheerm, ok ill try that00:33
zaheerm-lpactually00:33
zaheerm-lpsomeone wrote a coherence backend for iplayer00:33
zaheerm-lpso that is one possibility00:33
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Venomrushn900 now available in USA00:34
Venomrushpre-orders pick up at flagship stores00:34
zaheerm-lpVenomrush, cool00:34
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ShapeshifterVenomrush: at least, that's what they say00:34
VenomrushShapeshifter, people already picked theirs up, see http://2.gp/ege00:35
dmj726do those iplayer backends work in other countries?00:35
zaheerm-lpdmj726, no00:35
ShapeshifterVenomrush: no, they say they are going to pick it up, and I don't see any pictures.00:35
zaheerm-lpdmj726, they have geoip blocking00:35
dmj726n900 have tunneling capabilities?00:36
SpeedEvilssh00:36
kynkyyep00:36
VenomrushShapeshifter, you'll see it soon enough in an hour or two once they get home..00:36
kynkyits linux :)00:36
ShapeshifterVenomrush: I sure hope so ;)00:36
qwerty12_N810dmj726: It's your fault for being so stingy with Hulu00:36
kynkycan go through a uk based vpn, and ppl from uk can use a usa vpn to get hulu00:36
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qwerty12_N810dmj726: So we have to be like that with iPlayer00:37
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dmj726Yeah...I never thought the whole geoip blocking made much actual sense.00:37
zaheerm-lpopenvpn you can use00:38
zaheerm-lpiplayer is paid for by our tv licence feeds00:38
kynkydmj726, bbc is funded by uk tv license, apparantly some ppl dont think non license payers should get to see the content00:38
Jaffadmj726: They don't claim it's secure; but it's enough to satisfy the rights holders.00:38
zaheerm-lpyanks don't pay for it :)00:38
kynkybbc has no adverts or product placement00:39
dmj726They're only promoting p2p00:39
Jaffakynky: Also, in many cases (Heroes, other imported TV shows, background music etc.) the BBC doesn't have the rights to make them available outside the UK.00:39
kynkyJaffa, yep00:39
Jaffadmj726: No, they promote iPlayer (or Hulu, or whatever). That many people can get around it isn't the point.00:39
zaheerm-lpJaffa, btw are you the man behind the xml feeds at bleb ?00:39
dmj726note the wording *actual* sense...not legalese sense00:39
Jaffazaheerm-lp: I am.00:39
zaheerm-lpJaffa, cool, thx for the service!00:40
Jaffadmj726: It makes actual sense, because without it they wouldn't be able to do it.00:40
Jaffazaheerm-lp: np :)00:40
realitygapszaheerm, seem to be getting passed empty streams, im gonna try some other url options00:40
Jaffadmj726: It doesn't make *technical* sense, but makes *legalese* and *actual* sense :)00:40
kynkylegal world is a whole different kettle of fish to real world00:41
JaffaAs is technical world :)00:41
dmj726I'm just saying that they're not blocking anyone.  Lots of people in the states watch Dr Who...most through the only way they can, which is not iplayer or regular tv00:41
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, so yah looks like i have a way in python to get the iplayer streams00:41
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, so will give it a go this weekend00:42
Jaffadmj726: So, what would you suggest? No GeoIP and then a) no one in the UK would be able to watch Heroes on iPlayer and *everyone* in the world could watch Doctor Who directly?00:42
realitygapszaheerm, probably much easier, the get-iplayer way was just a quick hack00:42
realitygapszaheerm, but i'd still like to figure out why it isnt working :)00:42
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, mit licenced code too00:42
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, so do i want to know00:42
GeneralAntillesdmj726, Netflix. ;)00:42
kynkyzaheerm, if your talking about python, maybe you could look a the work of the xbmc iplayer plugin, that wriien in python ? works really well00:42
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, i am sure we can fix it00:42
realitygapsim gonna try the same streams on my laptop to check them b4 gst-launching00:43
Jaffadmj726: There's a difference between a perfect solution and a pragmatic one. They (and Hulu etc.) have gone for the pragmatic one.00:43
zaheerm-lpkynky, you have a link to the code, i thought that was a wrapper arounf get-iplayer00:43
zaheerm-lprealitygaps, try wget first yah :)00:43
dmj726I'm not saying it's possible for them to get around the current legal restrictions00:43
kynkyzaheerm-lp, i could be wrong but worth checking i guess00:43
dmj726but it's still silly00:43
realitygapszaheerm, yep thats my first thing to try00:43
realitygapszaheerm, just all the amsn testing left me out of batteries and cant find the damn usb cable00:44
dmj726http://techdirt.com/articles/20091116/1358106957.shtml00:44
zaheerm-lp512x288 VP6@512Kbs, 640x360 H.264@800Kbs, 832x468 H.264@1500Kbs & 1280x720 H.264@3200Kbs00:44
Jaffadmj726: I'm not sure I disagree; but changing the business model of the syndicated and worldwide distribution TV industry isn't going to happen overnight (or, probably, that soon).00:44
zaheerm-lpare the resolutions available00:44
kynkyzaheerm-lp, http://code.google.com/p/xbmc-iplayerv2/source/checkout00:44
zaheerm-lpJaffa, or anytime in the next few decades :) i work with the tv companies00:45
Jaffazaheerm-lp: Poor you00:45
dmj726the above link is about how hulu has too many competing interests00:45
Jaffazaheerm-lp: Don't suppose you've got any contacts at ITV?00:45
Stskeepsas long as ssh tunnels exist, i'm happy with the way how things work :P00:45
zaheerm-lpJaffa, well we stream their content00:45
Jaffazaheerm-lp: Ah, cool00:45
zaheerm-lpJaffa, no, not itv00:45
zaheerm-lpJaffa, mainly spanish media groups00:45
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* Jaffa bingles bbcredux.com00:45
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zaheerm-lpJaffa, i don't deal directly with them, our sales guys do...but we get all the requirements thrown at us. and i understand their attitudes00:47
ShapeshifterI get the feeling that the n900 is quite a success commercially.00:47
kynkyand n900 not even final :)00:48
ShapeshifterI'm surprised so many not-really-geeks are so keen to get a hold of it00:48
kynkyone more stage to go00:48
ShapeshifterEven I'm not 100% convinced by it.00:48
javispedrobecause they don't know what it is.00:49
kynkyShapeshifter, the flashy marketing of the droid/hd2/sex10/iphone 3gs has gotten to them00:49
ShapeshifterBut then again only few things were ever able to convince me.00:49
Shapeshifterkynky: I was saying that I'm surprised that so many of them _are_ interested in it.00:49
zaheerm-lpkynky, thx for the link, looks promising00:49
Shapeshiftereven without the marketing00:49
Shapeshifterword gor around it's awesome.00:49
Shapeshifter*got00:49
JaffaThen again, having played with other platforms recently; I'm actually impressed by Maemo in terms of its competition as *well* as with its own previous revisions00:49
javispedrojust read how every day somebody realises something about the n900 and makes a hubbub on tmo about it00:49
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javispedrotoday's dealbreaker: videocalling00:50
Shapeshifterjavispedro: lol indeed00:50
edgar2+100:50
kynkyShapeshifter, oh read it wrong, well n series is sposed to be nokia high end, lots of ppl like nokia, got big market share00:50
Shapeshiftermh00:50
zaheerm-lpjavispedro, tomorrow's 3d holographic projection00:50
ShapeshifterI think the droid is really sexy. But android is so boring.00:51
Shapeshifterand the keyboard of course is shit.00:51
zaheerm-lpandroid sucks00:51
fernando__I wonder how that dude that reviewed maemo a while ago feels abotu the N900...00:51
CoreFusion-kynky: N-series is not nokia high-end, it's nokia's multimedia devices-line00:51
fernando__(unrelated)00:51
kynkydroid kb really put me off, miht as well get the sex10 over that, also looks lke verizon have crippled the droid too much in usa00:51
CoreFusion-E-series is a another story00:51
dmj726CoreFusion-: ...what would be their high end?00:51
kynkythought e-series was buisness00:52
zaheerm-lpthe e series handsets have better build than the n series ones00:52
kynkymy friend just got e7200:52
zaheerm-lpmy e71 was and still is a great phone00:52
CoreFusion-yes e-siers is business, but business high-end and multimedia high-end are not the same thing00:52
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ShapeshifterBut still I'd say there are so many things wrong with the n900, and still people seem to like it. But yeah, javispedro's probably right, they don't know what it is.00:53
CoreFusion-s/siers/series00:53
* qwerty12_N810 would take the E90's keyboard over the N900's one anyday =)00:53
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zaheerm-lpi'd take the e71's keyboard too00:53
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zaheerm-lpbut it'd make one huge phone then00:53
ShapeshifterI liked the HTC touch pro 2 keyboard.00:53
Shapeshifterclicky keys that are far apart.00:53
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gouverneurhello...00:53
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Shapeshifterif the htc touch pro 2 had android, I'd have bought it at the time it came out.00:54
javispedrohi...00:54
kynkyhtc tp2 runs wino so instant fail :) (currently own a htc tp1)00:54
gouverneurdoes anyone know the file location for contacts? I'm just searching the dev stuff but cant find the location00:54
kynkymy tp1 can run android00:54
Jaffagouverneur: /home/user/.osso_abook/contacts.db IIRC00:55
kynkywino=winmo00:55
Shapeshifterkynky: yep.00:55
Jaffagouverneur: But don't touch it directly; use the APIs00:55
gouverneurI dont want to touch the one on the device, I want to export it and use it for something else (my landline phone does support upload...)00:56
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Jaffagouverneur: You can export one, many or all contacts from the device in Contacts as vCard 2.1 or vCard 3.000:57
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gouverneurin which format is it stored on the device?00:57
realitygaps_brbzaheerm, get-iplayer.cgi isnt streaming on my desktop either so its likely not a maemo issue...00:58
Jaffagouverneur: It's Evolution Data Store. A Berkeley DB AFAICT (well, that's what file(1) said ;-))00:58
gouverneurah Evo..00:58
zaheermrealitygaps, ok i am getting some success playing with the xbmc iplayer code, so will probably use that as a base00:58
gouverneurok00:58
gouverneurthx00:58
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zaheermi think the 640x360 h264 should work on the n90000:59
realitygaps_brbzaheerm, once i get a working url on the desktop ill try it on the n90001:00
gouverneurwhy is it so hard to find stuff?01:00
kynkyzaheerm, when i get n900 will be trying to multimedia development using haskell. think your doing well good multimedia work, hope that iplayer stuff helps.01:00
zaheermrealitygaps_brb, ok cool, i'm going to sleep01:00
realitygaps_brbzaheerm, sleep well.. ill let you know if i figure anything out01:01
zaheermkynky, using haskell gst bindings?01:01
zaheermrealitygaps_brb, thx01:01
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pnik64gleetings01:01
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GeneralAntilleszaheerm, it does.01:02
kynkyhaskell has ffmpeg bindings, but from what ppl have said using gstreamer could be better because of using the dsp via its plugin architecture, wasnt sure if i could get haskell gst plugins working, but no harm in trying i guess01:02
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zaheerm-lpkynky, feel free to ask in #gstreamer01:02
kynkywill do, but before i do, want to make  sure i can get the basics done first on device01:04
Shapeshiftermhhhh. if I remove the scratchbox dir there seem to be lots of symlinks to lots of stuff01:04
ShapeshifterI can't just rm that. Will something break if I rm that stuff as root?01:04
Shapeshifteror... how do I get rid of all that.01:04
javispedrodid you do /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core stop _before_ starting to rm things?01:05
javispedroor sbox_ctl stop01:05
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, if you just remove the scratchbox dir, bad things will happen.01:06
GeneralAntillesFollow the installation instructions.01:06
Shapeshifterjavispedro: mh, well, I had two scratchbox installations, and I want to remove the old one, which I didn't "sbox_ctl start" for a long time01:06
GeneralAntillesEr01:06
GeneralAntillesremoval instructions01:06
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Shapeshifterphew. glad I didn't do that as root.01:07
Shapeshifterthat would really have sucked I think.01:08
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Shapeshifterbut there isn't really anything about uninstalling on the wiki. /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop - I did that, and then apt-get remove scratchbox-* --purge - which isn't applicable as I don't use apt.01:09
Shapeshifterrm -rf /scratchbox01:09
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Shapeshifterwhich I am a bit scared of.01:09
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* pnik64 want undo key01:10
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* Shapeshifter is not sure if deleting a symlink just by doing rm will delete the target or just the symlink...01:11
gouverneurShapeshifter: what system are you working on as apt isnt your tool?01:11
Shapeshiftergouverneur: archlinux.01:12
mzz"rm" will kill the symlink, but be careful to omit the trailing "/" if it is a symlink to a directory.01:12
gouverneurwill delet the symlink01:12
Shapeshiftermzz: what if I do rm -R01:12
lcukn900eeeeeeeeeeeeevil deletions. never delete just rename lol01:12
* qwerty12_N810 waves at lcukn900 01:12
* javispedro has /home in an external partition just for when those paranoid thoughs arise01:13
Shapeshifterdamn.... I shouldn't have installed scratchbox in my home dir -.-01:13
javispedromount -o remount,ro /home and rm -r everything01:13
lcukn900hiya qwerty01:13
lcukn900and javis01:13
javispedrohi lcuk01:13
gouverneurShapeshifter: pacman -Rn package01:13
Shapeshifterjavispedro: but where do the scratchbox symlinks point to? They point at just about everything in my system. What, remount,ro and rm? how would I be able to rm from a ro partition?01:14
gouverneuris similar to apt with --purge01:14
javispedroShapeshifter: of course, I did not consider you installed sbox to your $HOME01:14
Shapeshiftergouverneur: right, I know how to use pacman. but I didn't install the maemo sdk using pacman obviously.01:14
lcukn900nuke it from orbit, thats what i almost did01:14
Shapeshifterhow bothersome.01:15
javispedroShapeshifter: just backup important things and do it. Theoretically it shouldn't erase anything. However, knowing myself, paranoid thoughs can't be removed so easily.01:15
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lcukn900just be careful and tell your neighbours before you delete.m01:16
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* Shapeshifter is scared01:16
lcukn900one stray / and their home dirs go too01:16
Shapeshifterthis is horrible, I don't know what to do xD01:17
Shapeshifterhasn't happened to me in a long time01:17
lcukn900hey qwerty, i did the underground!01:17
gouverneurShapeshifter: remove is an alias for unlink and wont follow symlinks rmdir on a $symlink/ will give you an error01:17
lcukn900lol shapeshifter, do you need a windows disk to reformat :p01:18
qwerty12_N810lcukn900: hehe. Stupid District line wasn't running Eastbound this morning01:18
lcukn900yikes01:18
lcukn900i did about 4 stops. im a pro now01:18
lcukn900tho if i ever have to change lines im bolloxd01:19
Shapeshiftergouverneur: so, I have the scratchbox dir somewhere in my homefolder. Now if I do rm -R ./scratchbox from its parent dir as root, that wont do anything bad?01:19
zaheerm-lptalking about the tube i started an app that showed live depature boards01:19
zaheerm-lps/showed/shows/01:19
infobotzaheerm-lp meant: talking about the tube i started an app that shows live depature boards01:19
gouverneurShapeshifter: should not01:20
lcukn900i just had a pepermap01:20
gouverneurtry it if you dont trust01:20
zaheerm-lpi like the realtime ability to see realtime when the trains are going to get to the station, so i can choose which station to walk to :)01:21
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gouverneurmkdir test||ln -s test/ testdir||touch test/testfile||rm -R ./testdir01:21
zerojayhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=382999&postcount=101:21
zaheerm-lpanyways really going to sleep01:21
gouverneurf** try && instead of || im to tired01:21
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Venomrushany UK users here?01:22
gouverneurmkdir test && ln -s test/ testdir && touch test/testfile && rm -rf ./testdir01:22
Shapeshiftergouverneur: I understand01:22
zaheerm-lpVenomrush, yah but off to sleep01:22
lcukn900venom why01:22
gouverneurchemist@10:07 PM gwendoline:~$  mkdir test && ln -s test/ testdir && touch test/testfile && rm -rf ./testdir01:23
Venomrushapparently they're shipping on the 8th01:23
gouverneurchemist@12:22 AM gwendoline:~$ ls test01:23
Venomrushopps01:23
gouverneurtestfile01:23
Venomrush3rd01:23
Shapeshiftergouverneur: yeah, I tried already.01:23
Venomrushi'm out of the country on the 8th01:23
ShapeshifterI think I'll backup first though.01:23
Shapeshifterkind of a bother because I just want to cp -a myhomedir backupdrive01:23
gouverneur;)01:23
Shapeshifterbut now there's a scratchbox in my homedir. But I think as cp -a also does -d, it should not follow symlinks, right?01:23
gouverneurso scared?01:24
Jaffazerojay: Ovi is ridiculous. Hopefully most developers will focus on Extras (once the QA process improvements are implemented)01:24
Shapeshifter-d is -d     same as --no-dereference --preserve=links01:24
Shapeshifterright?01:24
Shapeshifterso it will keep the links, but not follow them.01:24
Shapeshiftereven if I did cp -a.01:24
gouverneuryes01:24
gouverneuryou can even hardlink01:25
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Shapeshifterthis is like cutting wires on a bomb01:27
gouverneurhardlinkin is much faster and you never loose01:28
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qwerty12_N810If Nokia can't even get Ovi right, then [Nokia] please stop insulting us with the Ovi store being on the first tier of the menu01:29
lcukn900BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM01:29
qwerty12_N810+store01:29
Shapeshifterlcukn900: I'm still not cutting anything01:30
gouverneurShapeshifter: 30seconds left HURY or you gonna BLOW!01:30
ShapeshifterxD01:30
lcukn900TOO LATE, EXPLOSION TOOK OUT MY CAPS LOCK KEY01:30
gouverneurln home/ backuphome01:30
qwerty12_N810lcukn900: Hold shift01:30
GAN900qwerty12, amen.01:31
javispedroShapeshifter: rm -rfv , fingers near ctrl+c and go on for the sake of god.01:31
gouverneurjavispedro: I second that01:31
* Shapeshifter is reading about how to use rsync or tar to copy directory trees while exculding specific subdirs01:31
Shapeshifterso I can just backup the stuff but ignore the scratchbox dir.01:32
* gouverneur slaps Shapeshifter with a HARDLINK01:32
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lcukn900what does rootsh package do01:34
gouverneurShapeshifter: cd / && ln home/ backuphome && ls backuphome01:34
gouverneurlcukn900: gives you root01:34
lcukn900no it doesnt01:34
gouverneurhmm01:34
Shapeshiftergouverneur: but what good is that?01:34
lcukn900it sets some flags/setting01:34
GAN900zerojay, that'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad01:34
lcukn900whic01:34
GAN900Nokia is pretty incompetent.01:35
gouverneurShapeshifter: http://www.brunolinux.com/02-The_Terminal/Hardlinks_and_Symlinks.html01:35
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gouverneurif you now delete the target the link still holds the nodes on your harddisk01:36
Shapeshiftergouverneur: ah I get it. the file will not get deleted before not all references (files) to it have been deleted01:36
javispedroI guess Ovi Store being totally and utterly useless was the reason of maemo.org Extras01:36
Shapeshiftermh yes.01:36
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javispedros/guess/though01:36
ShapeshifterI guess that's pretty safe.01:36
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gouverneurShapeshifter: as long as all links are set so make shure backuphome is containing your home!01:37
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gouverneurwell do your rm -rf ./Scratchbox in your home ... but this does not prevent you from stuff following your symlinks so doesnt the backup with cp -a01:38
Shapeshiftermeanwhile, I've decided that scratchbox is evil.01:39
gouverneurbut as I said remove is an alias for unlink01:39
gouverneuryes it eats children and little puppies01:39
GAN900Extras was around way before Ovi was even a gleem.01:39
pnik64i am happy there is a way to sell apps01:41
pnik64whether people make use of it, duno01:41
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javispedroyeah, that was badly worded.01:41
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gouverneurpnik64: well people cant!01:42
lcukn900gan i think ovi even predates windows01:42
gouverneuror did that change the last 24hours?01:42
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pnik64i can't understand, are these jokes?01:42
gouverneurthere is still no linux pc-suite01:42
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lcukn900ovi wasnt a joke when i encountered it01:43
qwerty12_N810lcukn900: One thing is for sure: Your finger got owned by it01:43
gouverneurpnik64: no, ovi store rejected a single person as he is no real company01:43
lcukn900lol01:43
lcukn900ovi rejected me too01:44
pnik64what, random person cant sell thru ovi?01:44
gouverneurno01:44
lcukn900bbiab hunting for food01:44
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pnik64oh lol01:45
pnik64nevermind01:45
pnik64ovi cant release our stuff01:45
pnik64they will soon be criminally liable if there's a copyright infringement01:45
pnik64again government raises a barrier to entry01:45
pnik64you see it in front of you01:45
CoreFusion-I think that's Nokia's way to prevent useless software (just take a look at iPhone's app-store)01:45
qwerty12_N810Man, looking at the requirements needed for getting a job with Nokia, you'd think that they'd have intelligent people working for them01:46
pnik64dumb comment, qwerty12_N810 :)01:46
gouverneurthats the people working... not those deciding01:46
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qwerty12_N810pnik64: Ovi Store policy. Need I say more?01:46
gouverneurthats a huge difference01:47
gouverneurShapeshifter: did it work?01:47
gouverneurdid it blow?01:47
Shapeshiftergouverneur: I'm still reluctant to do anything. I'm cleaning up other parts of my /home first xD01:47
Shapeshifterand then I'll rsync excluding the scratchbox dirs.01:47
gouverneurlol01:47
ShapeshifterWhen that is backed up, I'll try rm -rf scratchbox as root.01:48
gouverneurseems to be the long way but more secure ;)01:48
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Shapeshiftergouverneur: yeah. I'd really hate to lose data. Though I have a backup mirrored twice, but it's a few months old01:49
ShapeshifterIf I do backups, I usually have more then one of them, but I do them not frequently enough :|01:49
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Shapeshifterlol seems a bit like the NYC really got a device. The forums are totally bananas about it.01:51
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javispedroah, hopefully eternal september will end soon then.01:53
pnik64heheh01:53
pnik64a lot of stuff feels like slow motion now01:53
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dmj726I don't think it will end01:55
dmj726unless it was like the time when the internet got rid of all the ID10T errors.01:56
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gouverneurpnik64: ovi store requires $1M corporate general liability insurance, new post about it...02:01
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Shapeshifterhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=383098&postcount=77 lol the internet is a funny place. 188 people in that thread, now wittnessed about one of the very first retail n900 owners (who paid for it)02:01
pnik64right, check the recent secret meeting in south korea02:01
ShapeshifterI hear fanfares02:01
Shapeshiftertaataaadaaaa02:01
javispedro...02:02
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pnik64wow02:04
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pnik64nice Shapeshifter02:04
Shapeshifterpnik64: that's not me02:06
Shapeshifterpnik64: I'm just saying, it's kinda funny that there are almost 200 people hitting F5 or ctrl-r every 10 seconds waiting for some guy in NYC to post a picture of his n90002:07
pnik64oh02:07
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gouverneurI guess the retailers will ship to monday02:10
gouverneurnokia flagship stores isnt realy a retailers address02:10
nomisShapeshifter: what? Where is the page I have to hit F5 on?  :)02:13
Shapeshifternomis: posted it above02:13
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nomisawesome!  ;-P02:14
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Shapeshifteryay figured out the rsync command to back up my stuff without touching the scratchbox dirs02:20
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* timeless_mbp cries02:22
* timeless_mbp found a couple more stupid xref errors02:22
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pupnikafter irssi nothing else is fun02:25
javispedroah02:25
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javispedronow I know who pnik64 was ;)02:25
Proteousirssi ftw02:26
pupniko/02:26
javispedrowell, going to bed now. hopefully tomorrow oct2009ers will not have overriden tmo main defenses02:27
Shapeshifteryay. rm -vR scratchbox and I'm still here02:27
Shapeshifterany clues what would happen if I was to move the final sdk scratchbox dir to opt?02:28
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dmj726perhaps we need to hide tmo from the normals by only allowing access via ip address02:28
Shapeshiftermh. I'll just try cp.02:28
javispedrocats and dogs living together.02:28
dmj726(not actual suggestion!)02:29
javispedrosee you02:29
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dmj726we want to be found generally speaking02:29
dmj726:)02:29
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Venomrushforum is going crazy02:38
Venomrushguys managed to get n900 posting pic up02:38
Venomrushand the swearing cursing nokia starts02:38
Venomrushlol02:38
Venomrushhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=383145&postcount=9502:38
GeneralAntillesTalk is a cesspit.02:38
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Shapeshiftermh. how big is scratchbox anyway... seems like it's huge02:40
Shapeshifterwell... if I cp a symlink, the target wont be copied as well, right?02:40
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Shapeshifterbut what about a du -sh? does du follow symlinks and add that to the total size?02:41
GeneralAntillesIt's Maemo + development stuff + documentation + cross compilation stuff02:41
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GeneralAntillesSo, a couple of gigabytes.02:41
GeneralAntillesA large portion of which is docs.02:41
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kalikianatoliShapeshifter, around 2gb is normal, depending on what you install it can be bigger02:41
kalikianatolihm... I think Thunar is trying to fool me: it says my 8gb sbox partition contains 21gb of data02:42
Shapeshifterkalikianatoli: well, that's what I'm saying, I think it follows symlinks.02:43
Shapeshifternot sure if du -sh does. And even more unsure if cp does follow them. I don't get it.02:43
Shapeshifter[1] shapeshifter@Tachychineta> du -sh /home/shapeshifter/stuff/maemofinal02:43
Shapeshifter2.5G/home/shapeshifter/stuff/maemofinal02:43
kalikianatolithat sounds like a normal size02:43
Shapeshifterdu -sh /mnt/space/maemo02:43
Shapeshifter3.7G/mnt/space/maemo02:43
kalikianatoliyour value might actually be correct02:43
kalikianatolilet me check here02:44
Shapeshifterbut, the above is during a cp from the first to the second02:44
Shapeshifterthe cp is still going on02:44
Shapeshifterand the target is already 3.702:44
Shapeshifterwhile the source is 2.502:44
kalikianatoli4,5GB here with du -sh02:44
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kalikianatoliiirc a fresh copy of sbox was 1, something gb02:45
Shapeshifterthis is really weird. I did 'cp -R /home/shapeshifter/stuff/maemofinal /mnt/space/maemo' and now the target has 4.4G while the source has 2.502:45
ShapeshifterI think I should have used cp -a02:45
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* Shapeshifter tries again with cp -a02:46
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pupnikhttp://europe.nokia.com/search?qt=maemo&GO.y=0&GO.x=0&GO=GO   does europe.nokia.com not know maemo?02:46
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pupnikwhat does -a do, archive and de-symlinks?02:47
pupniki am trying to log into the darn sdk page02:47
Shapeshifterpupnik: same as -dR --preserve=all02:47
pupnikty i forgot that02:48
lcukn900qt=maemo returns no result because maemo=qt+gtk+awesome02:49
Shapeshifterlcukn900: lol nice comment in the NYC thread02:50
GeneralAntillespupnik?02:52
GeneralAntilleshttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com ?02:52
lcukn900lol02:53
kalikianatolihaha, qt=maemo is a nice one02:55
kalikianatolilet's start pondering whether the server admin likes qt02:55
lcukn900arghhhh greasy chicken fingers on my n900 screen02:57
* kalikianatoli has *nails* :P02:58
Proteousno one to blame but youself02:58
GeneralAntillesWoo, nails!02:59
Robot101lcukn900: use the stylus? :)03:00
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lcukn900lol robot101 its too late for that03:02
pupnikGeneralAntilles: just wanted to log onto some nokia forum anhd ended up there03:03
pupnikso i searched for maemo aynd founs zarro03:03
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pupnikperhaps that forum is not active03:04
pupnikmaybe a maemo topic03:05
pupnik...03:05
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pupnikgod bless all good souls who help open source03:11
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pupniknewest firmware scrolling is more responsive feeling03:15
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pupnikbut maybe flick speed was just increased, not actual refresh rate03:16
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pupniki just thought of a way to maybe cheaply implement a notch filter03:21
pupniki dint think ove read it03:21
lcukn900pupnik cool. whats a notch filter03:22
pupnikwould take only a few instructions per sample03:22
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kalikianatolidoes a notch filter protect the device from scratches?03:23
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pupnikaudio term, cut out a notch in the frequency response03:23
pupnikto counter feedback or case resonances03:23
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pupnikheh03:23
pupnikwell how would you naively reduce response at 300 hz?03:24
lcukn900anyone got the viaspy link for tmo03:24
pupnik<ot me03:25
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Ronaldo38741How do I make the N810's keyboard not auto-capitalize sentences?03:59
GeneralAntillesOpen the control panel and turn off autocapitalization?04:00
kalikianatolitoo easy04:00
Ronaldo38741Would it be better if I asked a question no-one could answer?04:00
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kalikianatoliyes, please. we love the challenge :)04:02
Ronaldo38741Which came first, the chicken or the egg?04:04
Ronaldo38741In other news, where in the control panel?04:04
GeneralAntillesIn the application menu?04:04
Ronaldo38741"Text input settings" has no sucn option04:04
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Ronaldo38741*such04:04
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GeneralAntillesIt may in one of the dialogs farther down04:05
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Ronaldo38741Only one below it is "Panels"04:05
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GeneralAntillesUnder the dictionaries tab04:05
GeneralAntillesSettings04:05
Ronaldo38741Dictionaries tab?04:06
GeneralAntillesIn text input settings04:06
GeneralAntillesIt may be called something lese04:06
GeneralAntilleselse04:06
GeneralAntillesI have an aftermarket string set.04:06
GeneralAntillesBut the tab in text input settings that have the dictionaries.04:06
Ronaldo38741Ok, thanks04:07
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thephilosopherso04:12
thephilosopherwho got the first n90 ?04:13
thephilosophern90004:13
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GeneralAntillesPeople who got prototypes months and months ago?04:14
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GeneralAntillesIt's amazing how telepathy-haze can't manage to stay connected to AIM for more than an hour at a time.04:24
jaskahazy telepathy04:26
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aepcan the "end of november" delivery date be trusted?04:27
aepactually i already know the answer, it's no.04:27
GeneralAntillesaep, well, some people got them at retail.04:32
GeneralAntillesSupposedly shipping will start tomorrow or early next week for Nokia pre-orders.04:32
GeneralAntillesjaska, just calling it by the package name.04:32
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thephilosopheri thnk i am just gonna get a droid04:34
thephilosopherdroid does lol04:35
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microliththat'll be nice04:37
thephilosopher?04:37
aep"it does lol" ?04:38
microlithshipping starting tomorrow or early next week04:38
thephilosopherstill04:38
thephilosopheraep: yep and cofee too04:38
aepoh well THAT is a point04:38
simula_i just talked to a sales rep from nokia and early pre-order buyers will need to call up nokia sales because there is a problem with the headset04:38
microlithsimula_: yes, did that the other day myself04:39
simula_cool04:39
aepthe headset? heh. who cares?04:39
aepthey suck anyway04:39
simula_aep... they will hold your order04:39
aepi didnt preorder yet04:39
simula_ahhh heh04:39
aepi'm still not sure where to order.  US  or UK04:39
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aepdue to the silly keybaord i cant order a german one anyway04:39
thephilosopherUS cheaper04:39
aepyeah but later too04:40
thephilosopheraep: j max 2 weeks04:40
aephmm04:40
asdmI know im a newb and i dont wanna piss anyone off so(usally i dont know the rules on asking for help and stuff and people get pissed), how can i ask for some help ?04:40
thephilosopherasdm:  go head04:41
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aepyou just do it.  like "hello, i have a problem with X doing Y but i expect Z"04:41
asdmI have a N770 I enabled usb host mode and installed Carman app and i plugged in the USB OBD reader to the N770 its registers at address5 but i think  the porgram only reads bluetooth devices04:42
aepand people just answer.  its that easy :D04:42
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thephilosopherwhat do you guys think of amazon04:42
asdmis there a way i can make the usb look like a bluetooth device to n770, thanks aep04:42
thephilosopherwill we get the device before janury ?04:42
aepasdm: i have no idea. but maybe someone else does. just stick around and reask if no one responds in an hour or so04:42
asdmaep: ok, thnx04:43
aepthephilosopher: i dunno. would be interested too04:43
aepamazon is $50 cheaper04:43
thephilosopheractually 150 % cheaper compared to nokiausa04:44
aepbut 3 months waiting is not worth $5004:44
aeplol, huh?04:44
thephilosopher?04:44
aepit says $60004:44
aepand nokiausa says $64904:44
microlithmy re-ordered preorder totaled just a couple dollars over $60004:45
aeperr wrong.  amazon is $559.9904:45
thephilosopherho yea04:45
thephilosophercounted the mail-rebate04:45
aepwhatever rebate you have, i'm sure its not 150%04:45
aepexcept math in your country works different04:45
microlithif it were 150% cheaper, they'd be paying you04:46
thephilosopherlol04:46
thephilosopheri meant 150 $04:46
aepah lol04:46
Ronaldo38741$300 and a N900? Sounds good04:46
dmj726http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/19/breaking-leaked-uk-g.html04:47
Ronaldo38741Old news04:48
aepheh UK still not done with it?04:48
aepweird country04:48
dmj726from today...this is miore than 3 strikes04:48
dmj726*more04:48
aepat least they have sane n900 layouts04:48
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kalikianatolinokiausa reads like nausea, was that intentional? :-]04:50
aepheh04:50
aepi bet!04:50
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kalikianatoliI can only agree about the layout. I'm infinitly happy to have the English layout, even though I needed to adapt to the y/z04:51
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aepaww, now that you mention that.. thats something i didnt think of04:51
aepmaybe i can scratch the labels of and make new ones D:04:52
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kalikianatoliFor me it was a matter of using it for a while. I mean, almost all keys are somehow different than on a big keyboard04:53
kalikianatoliSo it's not like that's the one making the difference04:53
aephmh true04:53
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kalikianatoliThen again, you *can* switch the layout in the settings. But I don't know where to get new labels04:54
aepfrom your favorite chinese parts supply04:55
* aep hides04:55
kalikianatoliheh04:55
aepthats where i get all my nokia parts from since nokia refuses to sell parts at an acceptable price04:56
aep(130€ for a new E51 LCD is ripof. the entire device is just 200)04:56
kalikianatolior you grab them off ebay or another place with broken devices ;)04:57
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asdmanyone try shopping at dealextreme ?04:58
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Guest83958I get this error everytime I try apt-get update in ARMEL target in scratchbox. /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set05:54
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Guest83958How do I solve the  SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set problem? I keep getting that error06:08
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* RST38h laughs at Ovi thread07:53
RST38hPeople discussing creation of a corporate entity that would let them submit content to Ovi07:53
RST38hNobody is even considering the most logical solution07:53
derfWe could call this corporate entity "Nokia".07:54
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derfIf it's not already taken.07:54
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RST38hNokla, yes07:58
RST38hNot yet taken although certain Chinese will be offended07:58
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dmj726http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Get_started_with_Maemo_5/  in slide 4 the announcer pronounces GNOME like genome08:21
RST38hAnd?08:21
dmj726first time I've heard it pronounced that way...08:22
dmj726as in ge as in gene, rather than G as in GNU08:22
dmj726or just silent08:22
RST38hMaybe nobody told him how it is supposed to sound? =)08:23
dmj726normally I don't care that much about silent vs hard g but the soft g could be confusing08:23
dmj726her actually08:23
RST38hAhhha, Brin started wearing black turtlenecks Jobs-style08:23
dmj726I'm sure that it was a simple mistake of not having been told the pronunciation08:24
RST38hAnd he is using Droid08:24
RST38hSomebody send Brin an N900 =)08:24
luke-jrdmj726: at least he didn't try to make it silent.08:25
luke-jrpretty sure it's explicitly NOT supposed to be silent08:25
dmj726yeah, though a silent g would actually be what most native linux users would expect on seeing that word the first time.08:25
dmj726/s/linux users/English speakers08:26
RST38hdmj726: only if your native language is English08:26
RST38hBecause when I see "g" I say "g" :)08:26
pwnguinguh-nome sounds stupid anyways08:27
pwnguinRST38h: avoid french then08:27
* RST38h managed to follow this advice so far08:27
dmj726that's normally true for native speakers but there is an english word gnome that's pronounced nome08:27
RST38h"nom", not "nome", right? ;)08:28
dmj726yeah08:28
pwnguinnom nom08:28
dmj726long o08:28
dmj726as in Rome08:28
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RST38hSee what I mean? Absolutely no correspondence between spelling and pronounciation :)08:28
dmj726yeah08:28
pwnguinthrow in an umlaut08:28
luke-jrXD08:28
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dmj726most English words do follow the rules, but there are tons of exceptions08:29
RST38hEvery fucking word is pretty much a hieroglyph08:29
RST38hdmj726: AmigaOS had that speak: device that read text aloud08:29
RST38hdmj726: It used a database of rules. Still read with latino accent though =)08:30
pwnguinwe have festival08:30
dmj726that's because it's your female friend08:30
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dmj726...Amiga08:31
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luke-jrFestival's default voice kinda sucks08:40
ShadowJKwould native english speaker hear difference between gnom and genom08:41
dmj726gnom being with a hard g?08:41
dmj726Native English speakers can easily hear both hard and soft Gs.08:42
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dmj726the word gnome, however, generally has a silent g unless it refers to the free software project instead of little dwarfs08:43
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ShadowJKWell whether gnom with hard g would be heard as genom08:48
RST38hno08:48
dmj726nope, very different than genom, which has the soft g08:48
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microlithGenom?08:57
* microlith is assaulted by boomers08:57
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* CoreFusion- is awake, again09:01
* CoreFusion- is starting his day with Battle without honor or humanity09:03
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* microlith tries to recall what that's from09:04
CoreFusion-it's the kill bill theme :P09:04
microlithok09:04
CoreFusion-I find it refreshing09:05
microlithmovie soundtracks arne't a large part of my collection09:05
microlitharen't*09:05
CoreFusion-http://open.spotify.com/track/6Q32Vkucx2qeuVyBd3NiFZ09:05
CoreFusion-or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG2_kpSYxXI09:06
microlithheh, ty09:07
* Khertan is listening Gardian of Asguard09:08
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dmj726esbox garage site is down09:14
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CoreFusion-Khertan: You mean Guardians of Asgaard?09:18
Khertanyes ... :)09:18
Khertanjust writing it from memory09:18
CoreFusion-Not for me :/09:18
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dmj726I've decided to try esbox, but am not having luck finding the documentation for it09:42
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dmj726nevermind...found via google cache09:52
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timeless_mbp:(09:56
timeless_mbpmy n900 killed itself while i was trying to read mail09:56
dmj726:(09:56
Stskeeps:(09:56
Stskeepsbrowser or modest? :P09:57
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dmj726define kill09:57
auenfshotgun, noose or locked itself in the car with a hose from the exhaust into the cabin?09:57
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dmj726...what email messages were you subjecting it too?!? =-O10:01
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Stskeepsmaemo bugtracker would definately make a n900 off itself10:02
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JaffaMorning, all10:05
Stskeepsmorning jaffa10:05
JaffaStskeeps: Did you have any thoughts on MWN idea?10:05
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StskeepsJaffa: reddit for tmo posts and events? :P10:08
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Khertansomeone know a backup software that work on ubuntu ...10:14
Khertanmaking backup on ftp10:15
Khertani ve try Simple Backup ... but is so simple that backup are unusable10:15
Myrttirsync over ftp10:16
bigbrovarKhertan: Lucky backup has both a qt and a gtk frontend http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/download.html10:17
bigbrovarKhertan:  and it works really well, although it doesnt support backup over the network ( at least the lasttime i checked )10:18
KhertanMyrtti: ... hum ... does rsync really support ftp ...  ?10:18
bigbrovarKhertan: you can always get round the problem by mounted using nfs to mount ur remote back location10:19
Khertanluckybackup <<< doesn't support ftp10:19
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MyrttiKhertan: I'd be surprised if it doesn't10:20
Dieterbehi guys. i feel pretty silly, but i can't figure out how to remove a song from the current playlist in the n900 (preproduction) media player (yeah, haven't flashed yet..)10:20
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Myrttithough I'd rather chop my left hand off than use ftp if ssh is available10:21
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KhertanMyrtti: ssh isn't :)10:22
dmj726The Maemo 5 getting started development tutorial is pretty well done (pronunciation aside)10:22
Myrttiand if you don't have ssh available, I'd chage host10:22
KhertanMyrtti: i m apt-get it ... so i ll try10:22
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KhertanMyrtti: it s a special device10:22
Myrttiusage of ftp for backups is ...10:22
dmj726I could see it being a very good intro for new devs10:22
Myrtti*cough*10:22
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Khertanluckybackup have an horrible interface10:24
Khertanouch10:24
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bigbrovarKhertan: am sure if you drop some $ in donation. It would help the project .. better still you can also make a mockup, or write you suggestions on what to the developers :)10:26
Khertanbigbrovar: or write my own ... and make a port for maemo too10:26
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rrr__is there any ftp client on maemo yet?10:27
bigbrovarKhertan: yeah that too, although its often better to support an existing project than to start yet another one.. we haev too many orphaned project already10:27
Stskeepsrrr__: gftp? :P10:28
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rrr__oh hey thanks i must be blind :p10:29
Khertanbigbrovar: maybe there is a reason for this orphaned ... because everybody think that is solution is better ... and backup on ftp sucks ... so do not implement it10:29
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bigbrovarKhertan: is insecure why not scp .. heck.. buy a dropbox account and be done with it.. I use dropbox to back up my essential config files10:31
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Khertanbigbrovar: it s insecure ... right ... this is why it s on a local network "machine"10:33
Khertanbigbrovar: it s a small nas ... with four hard drive10:33
Khertanbut doesn't support rsync over ftp10:33
Khertanbut doesn't support rsync over ssh10:34
* RST38h moos at Khertan and Sts10:34
Khertanhi RST38h10:34
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bigbrovarKhertan: why not mount the remote network drive then use rsync from, there. or you could use backupPC if that is not an over kill10:35
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Khertanbigbrovar: because i cannot mount it10:36
bigbrovarKhertan:  ahh10:36
Khertanoh ... fuck ... i can mount it in ftp10:36
Khertanlol i ve forgotten that exists10:36
bigbrovarKhertan: i was thinking same10:37
Khertani always use mount ssh10:37
Khertani ve forgotten this feature10:37
Khertanthx10:37
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bigbrovarKhertan: i think dolphin has that feature inbuilt10:37
asdmI have a N770 I enabled usb host mode and installed Carman app and i plugged in the USB OBD reader to the N770 its registers at address5 but i think  the porgram only reads bluetooth devices10:37
asdmis there a way i can make the usb look like a bluetooth device to n77010:37
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bigbrovarKhertan: btw are u lucky enough to have a n900 in your possession ?10:38
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Khertanbigbrovar: yep10:39
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hrwmorning10:40
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bigbrovarKhertan: first i hate you :p .. second I have been asking this question and no one has been able to answer. How well is the proxy support of the N900. the n810 had very good proxy support when it comes to preinstalled applications ..( with the exception of the IM Chat app which never worked behind a network proxy)10:41
adeusconsidering that all nokia devs are inside a proxy, I'd guess the support is good10:42
bigbrovarKhertan: and no 3rd party app worked when you are behind a network proxy. there seem unable to use the system wide proxy settings. and very few had their own inbuilt proxy settings..10:42
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bigbrovaradeus: for pre-installed apps yes.. (except the chat applications on the N810 which seems to be an upstream problem, because telepathy as at then did suport http proxy )10:44
Khertanand no 3rd party app worked when you are behind a network proxy. <<< it s depends if the dev is a good one ... or made crap code10:44
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Khertanbigbrovar: proxy seems to be well supported10:44
Khertanas i use one ...10:44
ShadowJKit doesn't change for 3rd party apps10:44
KhertanShadowJK: it does ... when the dev use direct socket call :)10:45
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ShadowJKI mean, there's not much you can do to make third party apps support it, besides modifying the app10:45
jsmanriquehello10:45
bigbrovarKhertan: even with 3rd party applicaitons like mauku, canola, mastory (former wordpy) and gpodder ( all this applications and more didnt work on the n810 )10:45
jsmanriqueanyone has an answer from DDP about what is happenning?10:46
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Khertanbigbrovar: it s was working with my n81010:47
Khertannot sure for canola10:47
Khertanworks with my proxy for mauku mastory10:47
bigbrovarKhertan: even behind a network proxy? cus afaik i even filed a bug for mauku, and wordpy to support proxy10:47
Khertani ven't try with gpodder10:47
bigbrovarKhertan: and canola also doesnt...10:48
KhertanKhertan: even behind a network proxy? <<< yep ... it use the one in the network config settings10:48
Khertanbigbrovar: for canola i don't know ... i didn't use it10:48
bigbrovarKhertan: only pidgin, skype, and xchat did from the apps i tried and there had inbuilt proxy support10:49
Khertanstrange10:49
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bigbrovarthe most painful is maemo weather which never worked for me.. and i knew it was the proxy issue10:50
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Khertanomweather you mean ?10:50
lardman|homemorning10:50
bigbrovarKhertan: both gnome and kde ( and even symbian) third party apps works fine using the systemwide proxy settings10:50
Jaffabigbrovar: There's a bug in Maemo where it doesn't expose http_proxy correctly to apps, AFAIK10:52
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bigbrovarhere is a forum post i made about the issue http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3281410:52
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bigbrovarJaffa: thanks .. that is a major bug.. any idea if its fixed in maemo5?10:53
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Jaffabigbrovar: Dunno, not tested. Probably should, as it'll impact Python's webbrowser module, which is used by python-facebook, which is used by Hermes.10:53
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bigbrovarJaffa: do you have a link to the bug report?10:54
Jaffabigbrovar: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3712 contains some stuff10:56
povbotBug 3712: RSS reader uses proxy settings even when proxy disabled10:56
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hrwmaemo5 in 1024x600 looks mixed10:57
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hrwsome apps looks ok, some bad, some (like Clock) show bugs10:57
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* timeless_mbp frowns10:58
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hrwCalendar crashes like hell with my Joe Average contact...10:58
hrw'Birthday calendar does not exist !!' and then crash10:59
hrwheh.10:59
dmj726hrw: trying to run maemo5 on a netbook?10:59
hrwdmj726: no, maemo5 sdk still10:59
bigbrovarJaffa: thanks10:59
timeless_mbphrw: file a bug?11:00
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timeless_mbppreferably identify the crash id for it...11:00
timeless_mbpor do you not have crash-reporter?11:00
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hrwtimeless_mbp: device first, then bugs11:01
timeless_mbpoh bah11:02
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hrwtimeless_mbp: I want to be sure that bugs occur also on device11:02
jaemtimeless_mbp, hi11:02
timeless_mbphello11:02
* timeless_mbp needs to fix ok/cancel11:02
jaemsigh...11:02
* jaem is registering on the government student loan website11:02
jaemtheir forms are stupid11:02
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jaemthe ToS agreement form tells you to enter your password and click the "I agree" button11:03
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jaemhowever, if you don't agree, you have to select the "I disagree" radiobutton... and then click "I agree" to submit11:03
jaem>)<11:03
dmj726You agree to disagree?11:04
dmj726:P11:04
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jaemmaybe11:04
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timeless_mbpabsolutely!11:04
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jaemalso, on the "edit your personal information" form, the "best time to call" field defaults to 12am, and doesn't force you to change it before submitting11:04
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hrwtimeless_mbp: which crash-reporter?11:05
timeless_mbpoh nokia-maemo has a crash reporter11:06
timeless_mbpwhich we probably don't ship :)11:06
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timeless_mbpit was called nitro in diablo11:06
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timeless_mbpnow it's "crash-reporter"11:06
hrwtimeless_mbp: and still nokia internal only?11:06
timeless_mbpdunno11:06
timeless_mbpask eero11:06
hrwwho?11:07
timeless_mbpor search to see if it's in extra-*11:07
hrwitis11:07
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hrwand not installable it is11:07
timeless_mbpnot installable?11:07
jaemhrw, fix your packages, you must... mrrmmm11:08
jaem;)11:08
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timeless_mbpbah, i should ask sp3000 for help11:08
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hrwok, found why11:08
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hrwsome packages failed to install in sbox11:08
hrw~curse sbox for crappy 'I should be root' handling11:09
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, sbox for crappy 'I should be root' handling !11:09
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hrwok, removed few packages and system is going on11:13
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suihkulokkihrw: you mean you didn't use fakeroot and changing uid/gid of files didn't work?11:13
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hrwsuihkulokki: I refuse to read sbox manuals. as it allows me to use apt-get then I use it11:15
suihkulokkiyou can't "apt-get install" as non-root a pc either11:15
jaemwhat exactly does fakeroot do, anyhow?11:15
hrwsuihkulokki: on pc I cannot. in sbox I can11:15
timeless_mbphttp://linux.die.net/man/1/fakeroot11:16
hrwsuihkulokki: ofcourse some postinstall scripts complain about it but for me it is a bug in a way which sbox works11:16
jaemtimeless_mbp, heh... yeah11:16
jaemthat would work - sorry11:16
suihkulokkihrw: because inside sbox dirs in /usr /var etc are user writable11:16
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suihkulokkiofcourse apt in sbox could be patched to exit if not under fakeroot...11:17
hrwsuihkulokki: as I do not plan to use maemo5sdk vbox image for development I am fine with totally broken system in it due to 'sbox is not root but tries to behave like one' thing11:18
* suihkulokki doesnt like sbox but thinks hrw is being a epic whiner atm.11:18
hrwsuihkulokki: I am atm11:18
jaemyay, whining11:18
RST38hsb2! sb2!11:19
alteregoOr you could just alias 'apt-get' to 'fakeroot apt-get' :P11:20
hrwhttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic10.jpg is lovely11:20
suihkulokkialias "sudo" as "fakeroot" and use it like you'd on a pc =)11:21
timeless_mbpalterego: so that apt-get --download-only would do something stupid11:21
alteregoHeh11:21
alteregoOkay,11:21
timeless_mbphrw: nice11:21
alteregoCould write a simple wrapper script11:21
lardman|homecuriously I don't need to use fakeroot for anything other than building11:21
hrwlardman|home: fakeroot for building???11:22
lardman|homeyeah you know dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot11:23
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Corsachhm, n900 seems to be available on nokia.fr too11:24
hrwah.. building+packaging11:24
Corsacbut 650€ is really to expensive11:24
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hrwlardman|home: "debuild" is more comfortable11:24
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lardman|homehrw: yeah sorry all combined11:24
aquatixCorsac: it's available for 530 EUR here in the netherlands11:25
aquatixwell, `available'11:25
hrwaquatix: 'listed in shop'11:25
aquatixindeed11:25
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hrw2499 PLN in Poland11:26
lardman|homehmm, my diablo app is non-hildonised (inc the window) I wonder what's gone wrong...?11:26
hrwwhich means ~604€11:26
Corsacaquatix: in nokia website or in physical stores?11:27
aquatixCorsac: estores11:27
aquatixhttp://tweakers.net/pricewatch/244767/nokia-n900-zwart.html (dutch pricewatch site)11:27
* konttori loves transmission on n900 (sorry for totally unnecessary comment, just had to shout out loud)11:27
lardman|homedoes Diablo not have a hildon-style gtk_init()?11:27
RST38hah you pirate =)11:28
timeless_mbpok11:28
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timeless_mbphttp://mxr.maemo.org/11:28
timeless_mbpnow has two versions of fremantle11:28
timeless_mbpnote that fremantle-41 is slightly broken, and i'm not sure i'll try to fix it11:28
timeless_mbpfremantle-42 is more interesting anyway11:28
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RST38hGIMP to be removed from Ubuntu 10.0411:29
timeless_mbpRST38h: it isn't an end user tool11:29
alterego:(11:29
hrwhm. N900 comes with WH-205 headphones. they have accept call button. does it work with n900?11:29
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lardman|homeI didn't get any :(11:30
alteregoI want to know if my N95/96 media headphones will work with the N900, unlikely I guess.11:30
lardman|homeare they the same as came with N8x0?11:30
jaemRST38h, oh really?11:30
jaemlink?11:30
hrwlardman|home: tried to connect HS-47 from n8x0?11:30
lardman|homenah, N95 ones don't workj11:30
aquatixRST38h: from default install/cd yes11:30
lardman|homehrw: not sure if I have a working pair anymore11:30
hrwalterego: so far they do not11:30
aquatixstill, i think it's not a good move, as it is a nice demo app11:30
JaffaRST38h: More accurately, what aquatix said.11:31
alteregoThat's a bit rubbish, I like the media controls on those remotes, I use them all the time.11:31
konttoriRST38h: no.... for downloading carmic coala!11:31
aquatixbut apparantly not that interesting for the default demographic canonical targets11:31
konttorifor use on my... n90011:31
jaemkonttori, "carmic coala"?  Is that the non-KDE version? :P11:31
aquatixteehee11:31
hrwalterego: so do I. I use AD-44 (2.5mm) with my E6611:31
aquatixjaem: that's with CDE as default WM11:32
aquatixs/WM/DE11:32
jaemaquatix, ha11:32
konttoriRST38h: if they remove gimp from 10.04 will they also finally remove the GIMP toolkit?11:32
timeless_mbpkonttori: hrm, i think i meant to kick you11:32
timeless_mbpkonttori: sounds more like an Ubuntu 11 or Ubuntu 12 goal :)11:33
jaemgah... stupid website11:33
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jaemmy cell carrier keeps expiring my account, but not freeing the username11:33
konttoriwould be great. Imho, they should just embrace qt and be done with it11:33
jaemso I'm on the fifth username now11:33
jaem:/11:33
jaemkonttori, QIMP?11:33
konttoriand have ubuntu as the non-cluttered version of kde.11:33
konttorilol!11:33
jaemdidn't somebody try that?11:33
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hrwalterego: but if acceptcall button on WH-205/HS-47 works then AD-54 should be doable11:34
mikhasthe channel for qt trolls is #troll =p11:34
Khertanhum ... question ... when i mount a ftp on the desktop with ubuntu ... it s not possible to access it by command line ?11:34
konttorijaem: I did mean gnome moving to qt11:34
jaemmikhas, good troll or bad troll? :P11:34
konttoriwould be much better if gnome and kde both used just qt11:34
aquatixKhertan: you mean through fuse?11:34
jaemdoes Qt Software have a channel?11:34
aquatixKhertan: it's mounted in your homedir somewhere11:34
konttoriand have the two design filosophies for the desktop11:34
Khertanaquatix: i don't if it s use fuse anyway11:34
konttori#qt11:35
jaemright11:35
jaemheh11:35
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Khertankonttori: it ll be better if kde use gtk11:35
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Khertan[10:35] <Khertan> konttori: it ll be better if kde use gtk11:35
jaemKhertan, gah! no - don't say that!11:35
konttoriKhertan: are you serious?11:35
konttoriqt is far superior to gimp toolkit11:35
Khertankonttori: yep ... keep gtk ...11:35
Khertankonttori: you think it is ...11:36
* jaem sniffs11:36
mikhasopinions dont make facts11:36
jaemis that burning bits?11:36
Khertankonttori: but it s your point of view11:36
* jaem smells flaming bits11:36
Khertankonttori: i clearly prefer gkt11:36
konttoriwell, true enough. Anyway, I prefer gnome over kde any day11:36
Khertanspecially when coding in python11:36
konttoribut qt and qt c++ are much better dev envs than gobject.11:36
hrwuse whatever you want.11:36
konttoriyeah, python and gtk make gtk quite nice to use11:37
Khertankonttori: for you ... not for me11:37
Stskeepsat least we have sortof freedom on toolkit on maemo5 :P11:37
Khertanjust a example11:37
RST38hkonttori: Are you installing karmic koala on your N900 right now? =)11:37
Khertani ve made a ui with glade11:37
Khertani m trying to made the same with qtdesigner11:37
jaemStskeeps, have they made Qt packages for the N900 yet that don't fill up the rootfs :/11:37
jaem?11:38
Khertanit s just not easy to use11:38
konttoriRST38h: lol...11:38
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jaemI need it installed for a university project, but I don't want to uninstall everything else11:38
RST38hkonttori: If they remove GTK, GNOME people at Ubuntu may go postal and literally murder our last hope for a Linux desktop =)11:38
jaemI think they're not packaged properly11:38
jaemRST38h, fair point11:38
konttorijaem: qt packages are optified11:39
konttoriand there is both 4.6 and 4.5 available11:39
jaemkonttori, really?11:39
jaemhuh11:39
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jaemwhere is 4.6 available from?  -devel?11:39
konttoriby the way, most of ovi store apps for n900 are qt based11:40
hrwbtw - which resolution is available on tvout from n900? qpal? qntsc?11:40
Khertan[10:39] <konttori> jaem: qt packages are optified <<< are you sure ? last time i fill up the /11:40
Khertankonttori: this doesn't make them good :)11:40
jaemKhertan, that's what I thought... at least, as of about two days ago11:40
Khertanpyside one isn't ...11:40
kirmahrw: I understood in general use, it's the native display resolution rescaled11:41
lardman|homehow can one debug a .desktop file which isn't starting the app (which starts from the commandline?)11:41
kirmaspecific hardware capabilities would be interesting, certainly11:41
lardman|homeand, can I use the same .desktop file on Diablo and Fremantle (i.e. a Fremantle one on Diablo that is)11:41
konttoriKhertan: pyside isn't optified that's for sure11:41
konttorialso could be that 4.5 is not either, I thought it is, but not sure11:42
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Khertanlardman|home: pray11:42
jaemkonttori, sorry to reiterate, but where is 4.6 available from?11:42
jaemI kind of need it :P11:42
lardman|homeKhertan: that bad? :(11:42
hrwkirma: rescaled but to which res...11:42
Khertanlardman|home: there is no way to debug this things ...11:42
lardman|homeKhertan: curiously I can't start it from the main menu and from the command line I've lost my hildon window and am back to a normal one11:43
Khertanjust modif ... try ... pray ... modif ... try ... pray ...11:43
suihkulokkijaem: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/qt4-maemo5/4.6.0~git20091118-0maemo1/11:43
jaemyay11:43
lardman|homelol11:43
jaemthanks11:43
suihkulokkijaem: also, #qt-maemo11:43
jaemoh right... that reminds me11:43
jaemExtras-devel is complaining at me when I try to refresh11:43
jaemone sec - I'll grab the error11:43
alteregoThe transition from Gtk to Qt is going to be interesting.11:43
alteregoI think we're going to lose a lot of valuable applications in the process for quite some time.11:44
Khertan[10:44] <alterego> The transition from Gtk to Qt is going to be interesting. <<< nope .... it will not be11:44
konttorialterego: well, harmattan will have gtk support still.11:44
Khertani still don't understand why not keeping gtk11:44
Jaffaalterego: Most should be OK with carrying on using Gtk; the question is how much will a Gtk app have to change to match whatever new UI comes in11:44
jaemerror is: "No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists.new/....extras-devel_dists_fremantle_Release"11:44
Khertanit s really a bad idea11:44
konttoriwell, DUI is totally new stuff.11:45
mikhasalterego, Qt devs will have to rewrite their apps as well  =)11:45
jaemKhertan, well, they bought Trolltech for a reason...11:45
JaffaKhertan: Every time the screen redraws during rotation the limitations of Gtk are obvioous11:45
konttoriif you want the eye-candy and the convenience, then you need to do quite a bit of porting even from a qt app.11:45
alteregomikhas: They wont have to do a complete rewriite, where as a lot of gnome tech based apps might.11:45
KhertanJaffa: which limitation ?11:45
alteregoIs this move from Gtk+ to Qt, going to make all the glib stuff redundant aswell?11:45
jaemhrm... anyone know what's up with extras-devel?  Is it just me?11:46
konttorigtktreeview limitations are pretty obvious as well11:46
konttoricompared to what qt has11:46
alteregoWill libosso get pushed into a C++ Qt based implementation?11:46
JaffaKhertan: That it doesn't work very well for the kind of thing they're doing with it.11:46
konttoriglib will stay11:46
Jaffajaem: Not tried recently; I'll turn it on so I can test the optified Python... hang on11:46
jaemJaffa, thanks11:46
konttorilibosso will probably be deprecated (not sure, but my guess)11:46
Khertankonttori: i found the tree view is good ... the qt one ... i ven't yet successfully use it ... too much complex11:46
RST38hkonttori: Which does not say much about Ovi Store, given its app acceptancepolicies =(11:46
mikhaskonttori, I dont see where a cellrenderer is limited compared to that data() + delegate hack11:46
RST38hkonttori: No, seriously, who came up with that crap?11:47
KhertanJaffa: which kind ... it s work well on maemo 5 ...11:47
konttoriview + model + delegate you mean11:47
alteregotbh, I don't really see much point in libosso anyway, it's just a dbus wrapper with some application reigstration crap.11:47
alteregoIt's something extra that we shouldn't really need to worry about.11:47
konttorithe policies are for symbian app11:47
konttoridevelopment11:47
mikhasno, I meant the direct comparision of the niceties a cellrenderer offers vs. the ugliness that data() + delegate offer11:47
konttorisorry, emilia is 'helping' me type better11:48
* Khertan don't like how interface are think in qt ... but like how it s done in gtk11:48
lardman|homeargh, give me my hildon window back you buggers!11:49
lardman|homenot talking to anyone in particular11:49
Khertan:)11:49
konttoripolicies for ovi store apps will msot likely be different for n900 apps once ovi store is opened11:50
konttoribut, to be hones, I don't have a clear visibility to the ovi store process, that's just my own guessing11:50
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terocould someone tell me why my treeview's row height changes when I put in into hildon.pannablearea instead of gtk.scrolledwindow?11:51
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teroon maemo511:52
RST38htero: I think you want an extra vbox11:52
* lardman|home doesn't look forward to debugging Diablo .desktop file this evening11:53
lardman|homebbl11:53
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RST38hkonttori: Even for Symbian apps, this stuff sounds ridiculous :)11:53
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konttoriRST38h: it does, but I don't care about symbian apps11:54
konttoriso, it's all perfectly fine if they shoot themselves in the foot11:55
konttorias long as we make it so that we allow also some of you guys to dev apps that you can use to make some income as well11:55
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kirmahrw: you might dig up specifics supported by omap3 from this: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/techlit/sprufa411:56
konttoriand that cannot happen as long as we have silly policies like that 1 meur insurance11:56
kirmaheh, 421 pages ;)11:56
kirmaI believe the hardware could generate "native" resolution signal to tv out easily, but it's just not implemented on software11:57
kirmamight be nice though11:57
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timeless_mbphrm11:59
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timeless_mbpwhat's the bug # for OK/Cancel in browser?11:59
kirmaI suppose N900 output is composite video?11:59
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timeless_mbpkirma: as opposed to?11:59
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kirmas-video11:59
kirmasupported by OMAP312:00
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kirmaoh well. I could check the service manual that I have somewhere...12:00
gouverneurkirma: the OMAP3 supports IrDA but we dont know if the Ir device does yet12:01
timeless_mbpkirma: there's no video port12:01
fragmentkirma: composite, cable is included12:01
gouverneurkirma: service manual?12:01
timeless_mbpthere's a 3.5" port which works with a composite out cable12:01
kirmafragment: yep, so I thought12:01
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gouverneurtimeless_mbp: its mm12:02
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kirmagouverneur: you know, for service centers diagnosing problems12:02
timeless_mbpgouverneur: oops :)12:02
teroRST38h: thanks, that fixed the row height.. unfortunately it also broke scrolling using treeview.scroll_to_cell() :/12:02
timeless_mbp3.5" screen, 3.5mm jack12:02
timeless_mbpso confusing :)12:02
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timeless_mbpit didn't sound right when i typed/read it, so thanks for the correction :)12:03
kirmatimeless_mbp: I suppose it's composite video and mono audio or something?12:03
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jaemJaffa, any word?12:03
aquatixtimeless_mbp: 3.5' batterypack?12:03
timeless_mbpthere are 3 cables: red, yellow, white12:03
gouverneurkirma: is there a leak in your service center? like FAX or a scanner? ;)12:03
timeless_mbpmy impression is that it's stereo12:03
timeless_mbps/cables/plugs/ ?12:03
gouverneurcinch12:03
aquatixtimeless_mbp: red and white sound like stereo12:04
gouverneurall three and stereo yes12:04
gouverneurlike the video3 input on your TV12:04
gouverneur(most of the time t´his is 3)12:05
kirmagouverneur: google for n900 service manual... there's a site that basically sells these things for rather low subscription fee if you're interested. the legality of it is... questionable, but maybe not in the country of origin.12:05
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timeless_mbpjaem: so... vibrate12:05
gouverneurkirma: you know that just for the sake I should not buy one12:06
jaemtimeless_mbp, what?12:06
timeless_mbphrm, i think i fixed that already12:06
jaemoh right12:06
jaemgood12:06
timeless_mbpand i've fixed Yes/No :)12:06
jaemyay12:06
jaemdo you have to check the no box, and then click yes? XD12:06
hrwkirma: I have 3 omap3 boards at desk12:06
timeless_mbpbah12:07
hrwkirma: and use 1280x800x16 with them12:07
timeless_mbpthere's a vbox 3.0.1212:07
kirmaI'd say that service manual isn't particularly useful for anything unless one is addicted to reading technical documents12:07
timeless_mbpso... is anyone using mxr.maemo.org/fremantle? :)12:07
kirmahrw: I know it's possible, but details about TV out might be different... I suppose the doc I pasted might have some sort of an answer ;)12:07
hrwk12:08
hrwthe worst thing is that this is composite. so PAL 720x576 is probably max what can be done12:08
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timelessstskeeps: vbox 3.0.12 killed my mbp12:09
Stskeepstimeless: not bad12:09
timelessit's chirping12:10
kirma"up to 60 megasamples per second" ... speaking of limitations imposed by the plain DAC on TV part12:10
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Jaffajaem: Sorry, had a power cut.12:11
Khertanhttp://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/modest/src/gnome/modest-msg-edit-window.c <<< they use gtk source view ?12:11
jaemJaffa, :( oops12:12
Khertan???12:12
jaemKhertan, O_o12:12
Khertanbut on n900 it s look like a pannable area12:12
RST38htero: It starts sounding like Avkon.12:12
Khertannot a scrolledwindow12:12
jaemspeaking of, is there *really* no way to copy text out of Modest's message view window?!12:12
RST38hWhich is disturbing.12:12
Jaffajaem: extras-devel is working within HAM12:12
RST38hjaem: Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V12:12
jaemJaffa, thanks, I'll give it another try12:13
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jaemRST38h, but selecting...12:13
jaemis there a gesture12:13
jaemam I just an idiot?12:13
RST38hhmmm...it does not? lemme check12:13
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Jaffajaem: shift & Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V apparently12:13
gouverneurkirma: yes it is interessting to know the wireing of the device12:13
gouverneurkirma: on which side of open source do you live?12:13
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jaemJaffa, shift+drag?12:14
jaemor what?12:14
hrwtimeless: I use vbox 3.0.12 on my debian12:14
Jaffajaem: Shift+ Cursor keys was what was said in the earlier bug report12:14
teroRST38h: I guess the problem is that the pannablearea and treeview inside vbox don't know about each other12:14
RST38hOh shit, it really does not let you mark text!12:14
JaffaThat's genious12:14
timeless_mbp_hrw: how long have you had 3.0.12?12:14
Jaffas/genious/genius/ *coughj*12:14
RST38hIs there a bug filed for that?12:14
jaemRST38h, :P12:14
jaemnot yet12:15
jaemI would, but I'm trying to get a bursary application in, and it's 2:30am12:15
jaemdo you mind?12:15
timeless_mbp_ooh12:15
timeless_mbp_there's a beta of 3.112:15
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timeless_mbp_hrw: have you tried the beta?12:15
RST38hjaem: Should I file?12:15
jaemRST38h, please12:15
RST38hok12:15
RST38htero: Treeview probably does not know how to scroll, it thinks it is shown wholly inside that vbox12:16
kirmagouverneur: I'm not quite certain what you refer to, but I'm not related to nokia... home hacker and professionally writing closed source network security running on open source based appliances12:17
RST38htero: If there is a way to translate item id ==> y coordinate in the tree view, you can use that y cooridnate to scroll the vbox12:17
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timeless_mbp_RST38h: if you want to select text you have to use reply/forward12:19
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* RST38h sighs12:21
RST38hbug #6258 gentlemen12:21
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6258 Modest message view does not let user select text12:21
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mikhasI think I did select text once12:21
mikhasandre__ helped me wit that ...12:21
mikhascould it be it's a regression, rather than a new bug?12:22
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matmohi all, sure I saw a post a few weeks back about an exchange programme for N900's handed back from the summit loans. Did I imagine it or can anyone point me to info?12:22
mikhasRST38h, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=503312:23
povbotBug 5033: Select/Copy text withing email is nonintuitive/broken12:23
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RST38hmikhas: Ah, so there was a bug for that!12:24
mikhasno not exactly12:24
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mikhasthis one is for "reply to email" mode12:24
mikhasyours is for "reading email"12:24
RST38hOk, it is different then12:24
mikhasyes, perhaps link to it still12:24
mikhasand confirm that you can still select text in reply mode12:24
RST38hAlthoguh it feels almost like there should be a single bug report for Modest: "Modest does nto work"12:25
mikhas=)12:25
tigerthey, it sends and receives mail :)12:25
RST38htigert: for some people, yes12:25
RST38htigert: for my pop3 account, it does not12:25
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tigertah12:26
RST38hpop3 is broken beyond usable12:26
mikhasyes, even without modest =p12:26
jaemRST38h, correction: in Diablo modest DidNotWork (TM)... in Fremantle it just has issues12:26
RST38himap kinda works but goes bonkers over large folders (guess the size of gmail folders)12:26
jaemin fact, as much as some things like the lack of text selection are stupid, at least it functions, and is reasonably speddy12:26
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RST38hjaem: That is a difference between DidNot and DoesNot. I am talking of N900 Modest12:27
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jaemGmail IMAP on Diablo's Modest was completely unusable12:27
jaemon the N900 is just has issues12:27
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jaembut it works well enough that I bother to use it12:27
Stskeepshmm, anyone noticed location-test-gui in SDK?12:27
RST38hjaem: I also use it...Sometimes. Once a week.12:27
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jaemRST38h, I use it several times a day12:27
Jaffajaem: It could be better if it made up its mind whether it had to be online or not to show you email; the caching implementation, and updating, is the second biggest annoyance to me after not having an option to put sigs below quotes and have a proper attribution12:27
jaemannoying bugs, yes12:27
jaemunusable, no - at least, not for me12:28
RST38hjaem: You are probably llucky to have your exact use case covered12:28
jaemRST38h, probably12:28
RST38hjaem: because I cannot use it for pop312:28
jaembut it's still miles better than Diablo's Modest12:28
jaemRST38h, :O12:28
RST38hAnd for GMail I sometimes use it, but can't call it pleasant experience12:28
jaemokay, I'll rephrase that... when it works, it works reasonably well12:28
jaemlol12:28
jaemthe lack of a "search my inbox of 8000 messages" feature is a bit obtuse12:29
jaem:/12:29
RST38hSSH + PINE does it for me12:29
RST38hIncredibly, lowly PINE *will* search my 8000-message folders12:29
aquatix(al)pine is rather nice12:30
RST38hBut, of course, this cannot be counted as a victory for Maemo Devices :(12:30
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jaemI've finally decided that I do like kinetic scrolling in the terminal... however, has anyone else noticed that the cursor button sometimes doesn't appear? :S12:31
jaemI recently noticed it, although it had been nagging in the back of my head for a while, I think12:31
jaemI haven't seen it happen recently, but I'll file a bug when I do12:31
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* jaem has to get working on some Maemo coding this weekend12:34
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* SpeedEvil batters a maemo cod, and eats it for breakfast.12:34
jaemmy university project team has to get a demo ready for a high-publicity event, and we're really short on time12:34
jaemactually, first we have to demo it to Nokia12:35
viqI saw a package of claws-mail, that searches too ;)12:35
jaemthen, a week and a half later, we have to demo it to a much larger audience12:35
jaemsigh12:35
jaemnot enough time12:35
jaemhuh12:35
* SpeedEvil ponders what the project might be.12:35
SpeedEviln900 powered velociraptor?12:36
jaemSpeedEvil, I can't say much at the moment12:36
jaemclose12:36
jaemXP12:36
jaemjust kidding12:36
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jaemSpeedEvil, once it's been demoed, I can talk more about it12:36
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Jaffajaem: the cursor button doesn't appear if there's no scrollback12:36
Jaffa(e.g. you're using screen)12:36
jaemJaffa, that could be it12:37
jaemheh12:37
jaemalso explains why it was nagging at me12:37
jaemJaffa, apt has no issue with extras-devel, but HAM still complains at me, and refuses to list it12:37
jaemodd12:37
jaemwait... nvm12:37
jaemhrmmmm12:37
jaemit says the catalogue failed, but it's listing it now12:38
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ccookeMorning, all12:47
hrwargh... compiz in ubuntu12:49
jaemccooke, morning12:49
gouverneurhrw: argh... ubuntu12:49
aquatixyay ubuntu12:50
aquatix:P12:50
Shapeshifterarch is the best12:50
aquatixno, debian!12:50
gouverneurShapeshifter: depends12:50
jaemShapeshifter, +112:50
gouverneuraquatix: depends aswell12:50
aquatixghehe12:50
Shapeshiftergouverneur: you could even say "depends" for windows.12:50
aquatixto everyone his/her own12:50
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* aquatix doesn't care12:50
jaemgouverneur, true... I can appreciate both, despite not using *buntu on my primary machines12:50
viqSlashdot says ubuntu removes gimp as being "too complicated" ;P12:50
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Shapeshifterclearly, windows the best.12:50
Shapeshifterif you want to play far cry12:51
gouverneurI would't install an arch or slack or gentoo onto a 24/7 productive server12:51
aquatixviq: only from default install/cd12:51
jaemShapeshifter, viq, yeah - Windows has MSPain!12:51
jaempaint*12:51
jaembut also pain12:51
jaem-snerk-12:51
tigertslackware was fun in 1995 :)12:51
Shapeshiftermspain, right :)12:51
tigertit had the coolest theme for man page colors =)12:51
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tigertquite a bit has changed since...12:51
gouverneurviq: it is... or do you know some n00b who is able to work with any adobe programs?12:51
Shapeshiftergimp ain't that bad12:52
gouverneurscribus gimp and so on are known to be for advanced users only12:52
jaemgouverneur, it's a pity Paint.NET is... .NET12:52
jaemI quite liked it on Windows12:52
jaemeven if it got a bit fat by the end12:52
viqgouverneur: I am not quallified to comment ;)12:52
tigertinkscape and gimp has gotten me this far on my professional career :)12:53
Shapeshifterreal men use imagemagick xD12:53
tigertsome Adobe stuff every now and then, but I keep returning to inkscape12:53
jaemShapeshifter, real men use a hex editor12:53
tigertShapeshifter: I do that too, but its a bit hard to edit shapes with it :)12:53
Shapeshifterjaem: I knew this was next12:53
gouverneurgimp isnt bad but its that feature rich that most joes get hit by dialoges they never understand12:53
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tigertimagemagick is a resource hog thouhg12:53
jaemShapeshifter, toggle switches and patch cables? :P12:53
tigertgouverneur: yeah its not a simple paint app :)12:53
jaemShapeshifter, butterflies?12:53
Shapeshifterjaem: exactly.12:53
tigertgouverneur: then again, simple tools are there and it is no problem to get started12:54
* Shapeshifter likes fireworks the most.12:54
jaemShapeshifter, I actually took a class where we had to write ASM on paper, hand-assemble it from the back of a dead-tree reference manual, and type it into RAM on a hex keypad12:54
jaemthey kept telling us they'd get the computers set up, but they didn't12:54
jaemin 8 months12:54
jaem>_<12:54
Shapeshifter^^12:54
gouverneurI use imagemagick for all pictures but for skizzing12:54
tigertthe N810 theme was done in inkscape, vectors are nice for that stuff since it is easy to edit colors etc later12:55
jaemgouverneur, say again?12:55
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gouverneurI use imagemagick for all pictures but for skizzing12:55
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gouverneur;)12:55
tigertand inkscape does a good job in keeping on the pixel grid12:55
jaemgouverneur, I meant, "clarify"12:55
jaemtigert, true12:55
timeless_mbpjaem: doesn't .NET run on Moonlight?12:55
alteregoInkscape is probably one of my favorite linux UI apps.12:55
alterego~gui apps.12:55
Shapeshifterjaem: don't you know skizzing? It's like skiing, but for cool people.12:55
alteregotimeless_mbp: you mean, moonlight runs on .net :P12:55
jaemtimeless_mbp, Mono, yes, bt Paint.NET uses MS' proprietary ink extensions12:56
timeless_mbpmono moon, moon mono...12:56
timeless_mbp'ink'12:56
jaemtigert, alterego, check out http://murphyslab.ca/2009/11/07/graphing-with-inkscape/ by a friend of mine12:56
jaeminteresting read12:56
timeless_mbp?12:56
jaemtimeless_mbp, yeah - inking, as in with a pen12:56
jaemor a mouse, if you don't have a tablet12:56
jaembut last I checked, Mono had no equivalent libs12:57
gouverneurjaem: copy paste resize drawing-simple-things watermark text effects and so on I do with imagemagick if I need to do more than one picture12:57
lardmanre12:57
tigertjaem: wow12:57
gouverneurink I use for vector stuff12:57
tigertsweet12:57
alteregojaem: that is sweet, thanks :)12:57
jaemtigert, alterego, you're welcome, but all the credit goes to my friend12:58
jaemoh yeah... I went to Costco today, and scanned for networks on my N900... one of them had the SSID "...a Hidden Network"12:58
jaem...I think they missed a crucial point there12:58
jaemFail12:58
tigert:)12:58
alteregoHahah12:58
tigertI once saw "NEIGHBOUR: GET YOUR OWN GODDAMN INTERNET!" -ssid (in finnish of course)12:58
tigertthat was pretty funny :)12:59
jaemtigert, lol...12:59
jaemhmm... I was thinking... Evernote + N900 would be awesome for lecture notes12:59
timeless_mbpjaem: um13:00
timeless_mbpis that really the side?13:00
Shapeshiftersometimes when I'm bored I'll take out kismet while on the train to work13:00
timeless_mbper ssid13:00
gouverneurShapeshifter: jaem: if they didnt remove avatars and so form maemo I could show you one of my pics (handmade not computer)13:00
Shapeshifterfunny essids everywhere13:00
timeless_mbpbecause i think that's my localization's text13:00
Shapeshifterlike "obama"13:00
jaemhowever, the people that take photos of the lecture notes tend to make a bad reputation by being stupid, and I don't want that stigma13:00
inztigert, reminds me of the old "norwegian virus" -joke13:00
Shapeshifter"scheiss windows"13:00
tigertinz: ?13:00
gouverneurShapeshifter: da hast du wohl recht13:00
gouverneurbrb13:00
inztigert, "You have just received a Norwegian virus. Since we are not so technologically advanced in Norway, this is a MANUAL virus. Please delete all the files on your hard disk yourself and send this mail to everyone you know."13:00
Shapeshiftergouverneur: was an essid I saw on the way to work ;)13:01
timeless_mbp"... a hidden network"13:01
timeless_mbpis the string i use13:01
jaemtimeless_mbp, >_<... I should have guessed13:01
timeless_mbpso if H and N are capitalized, then the network really has that name13:01
gouverneurShapeshifter: nice13:01
tigertjaem: pen + paper (less geeky and easier to write) + N900 camera to "fax" them to evernote would work13:01
tigertor flickr or whatever13:01
jaemin fact, I think a friend asked, and it came to mind13:01
jaemheh13:01
gouverneurShapeshifter: a-hell-of-a-hotspot is coming along my way13:01
timeless_mbpi should see if there are any special characters i can stick into those buttons to highlight "this is *SPECIAL*"13:02
Shapeshifter^^13:02
jaemtigert, good point actually... I don't know why that didn't occur to me13:02
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jaembut their OCR seems pretty good13:02
mikhasmy handwriting easily breaks any OCR13:02
tigertjaem: I do mindmaps and such usually when taking notes13:03
tigertso ocr is kinda pointless13:03
tigertso images would work for me13:03
jaemtigert, same for a lot of my notes, but the advantage of Evernote is that it stores images, but indexes the text13:03
jaemso I could, say, look up some calculus theorem by name, and find the graph13:03
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tigertoooh right13:04
* tigert tries13:04
jaemhrm... has anyone tried hooking up a Wacom Bamboo tablet to the N810?13:04
jaemI doubt it would have enough current supply13:04
jaembut that would be pretty awesome for xournal13:04
tigertthe touchscreen itself has pressure sensitivity a bit13:05
jaemmy handwriting's pretty messy, so I have to zoom in way too far to write neatly13:05
jaemyeah13:05
tigertits much easier to draw on the screen itself when the dpi is high13:05
jaembut the panning bugs me13:05
jaemmmhmm13:05
tigertsure13:05
jaemI suppose13:05
tigertso write on a paper sheet and photograph it :)13:05
tigertless trouble :)13:05
tigert*snap*13:05
jaemI was bugging what's-his-name who's working on the Fremantle Xournal port to add some sort of paging ability13:05
jaembut with no hardware buttons on the face, that's a bit more awkward13:06
jaema gesture would be nice13:06
jaemsomething that could be done with the hand that's holding the device, while using a stylus with the other13:06
tigerttwo fingers to pan?13:06
tigertand one to draw would work13:06
SpeedEvilhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270485833257&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D270485833257%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 is clearly the correct solution for doing n900 images.13:06
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tigertI guess you could detect something from the touch area size13:06
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jaemtigert, writing with your finger?! um... no13:07
jaemI meant a paging gesture, as in "do something with your left thumb to slide it right/carriage return on EOL" while writing with your right hand/stylus13:08
jaemas long as you're writing within the lines, it could work, and obviously you could turn it off if you're not13:08
tigertyeah13:08
jaemthere was some talk about making it (in the future) be aware of larger units of writing than just strokes13:09
jaeme.g. it knows that a group of letter close together is a word, and can add intelligence based on that13:09
Shapeshiftermhh. I don't really get why resistive touch screens didn't have multitouch until only recently.13:11
jaemShapeshifter, are those the 5-wire panels?13:11
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: it's more complex to implement.13:11
jaemor am I thinking of something else?13:11
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: you've got to basically segment the screen into lots of little screens to do multitouch13:12
ShapeshifterI'm still reading on how they actually work13:12
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jaemhmm... well, that application is done... my uni has a "work-study" program that allows you to work for a prof to earn some cash13:13
jaemonly I didn't apply in time for this semester, so the project I mentioned that I'm doing, I'm doing for free13:14
jaemI'm hoping to get payed for it next semester :P13:14
jaemby the way, sbox allows multiple users, right?13:14
jaemthat was the impression I was under, but then I was told otherwise... and I haven't had time to look into it13:14
Stskeepsyeah13:15
jaemStskeeps, any limitations?13:15
Stskeepswell, fakeroot affects all users i guess13:15
Stskeepsbut i can't recall13:15
* jaem nods13:16
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Lorthirkwoah, n900 available on italian nokia shop13:20
jaemO_o  why does ankiqt have >= deps on two different versions of libqt4-core, as well as = deps on one of them? ...I guess that's why it's in -devel13:21
jaemI'm glad the maemo.org team decided to split it into -devel and -testing13:21
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hrwLorthirk: n900 is available in all nokia webshops. except DDP one13:21
Lorthirkit was only on preorder until yesterday (always talking about italian...)13:22
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kirmahrw: after lots of digging, I conclude that highest tv resolution N900 might be able to output is 944*576 or so (wide-screen square pixel PAL)13:26
DocScrutinizerdid Nokia care to add a decent voice-control to N900? as Maemo5 has some blobs anyway, I guess Nokia could port the voice control from e.g. N97 as well13:27
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: There is no voice control currently, AFAIK13:27
DocScrutinizer:-S13:28
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DocScrutinizerthanks for the info anyway, Jaffa13:28
kirmaerr, not quite so. 848x576... mmaybe.13:28
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hrwkirma: thx13:29
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kirmabut achieving that is another thing, although that part of the video hardware is openly documented13:29
kirmaI assume that 59 MHz clock is available on the chip... just hoping I didn't misinterpret the documentation.13:30
jaemkirma, where are you getting the docs from?13:31
DocScrutinizer:-) my question13:31
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kirmain this specific case, I'm browsing through http://www-s.ti.com/sc/techlit/sprufa413:31
kirmajust generic OMAP35x documentation13:31
jaemah, okay13:31
jaemis there an overview of the N900 hardware anywhere?13:32
kirmaservice manual has some higher-level information on internal components and service schematics would have specifics, but neither are really public documentation, although widespread once phone is on market13:34
tbfjaem: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ is not sufficient?13:34
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jaemtbf, I meant components, not general specs13:34
jaemkirma, figured as much ;)13:34
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DocScrutinizerthnx :-)13:35
kirmaI believe there will be crack-open kind of stuff in relatively short time around the web13:35
fragmentkirma: are you looking for some specific information or just everything generally?13:35
jaemkonttori, what is the "transitioncontrol" package for?13:36
jaemyour pkg description isn't exactly enlightening :P13:36
Stskeepsdisabling transitions in UI13:36
Stskeepsin hildon desktop specifically13:36
jaemah13:36
konttorijaem: you can tune the transitions on the device with it13:36
Stskeepsah, yes, tune13:37
jaemtune == on/off, or "tune"?13:37
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konttoriso, you can tune them to be longer, shorter, you have lot's of granularity13:37
jaemI was actually surprised at how much eyecandy they packed into the N900 while still making it quite usable13:37
kirmafragment: I'm in general curious about things13:37
jaemooh13:37
* jaem installs it13:37
jaemkonttori, is that in config in /etc somewheres?13:37
konttoriit's piss ass badly packaged (transitioncontrol)13:38
jaemheh13:38
konttoriits /usr/share/hidon-desktop/transitions.ini13:38
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* jaem nods13:38
jaemthanks!13:38
jaemwhy is usbcontrol in the fremantle repos?  I thought USB host was out entirely... or is it just disabled in software?13:39
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konttoriwell, it doesn't work13:40
konttorijust happens to be there13:40
jaemah13:40
konttoriyou can force usb to host mode though13:40
jaemreally?13:41
jaemhrmm13:41
konttoribut not on a running device13:41
jaemah13:41
jaemlink?13:41
konttoriyeah. some flasher flag or something like that13:41
jaemand how much of a hack is it?13:41
konttorino idea on details13:41
jaemoh, that13:41
konttorijust know that it's possible13:41
jaemI'm guessing that it theoretically could be made to work without a reboot, then?13:41
Stskeepskonttori: thought that was removed.. the question is if device is capable of host or not.. otg is less relevant :P13:41
jaemStskeeps, that's what I was wondering13:42
Stskeepsi guess people will find out eventually13:42
konttoriyou can still hack it to host mode afaik13:42
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jaemI never actually heard the whole story about that, mainly because of all the noise on the forums13:42
Stskeepsyeah13:42
Stskeepsthey said USB OTG not working, which is obviously not practical, but if host pins still work, is something else13:42
jaemhopefully we can... I quite liked being able to just plug a flash key into it13:42
jaemand a keyboard would be nice13:42
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jaemStskeeps, hmm13:42
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Stskeepsand then there's the whole charging issue13:42
konttoribt keyboard is much better.13:42
konttoriand microsd is much better than usb key13:43
jaemwhat is the difference between OTG, and providing host/device modes separately?13:43
konttoriport won't anyway have enough juice for proper usb keys13:43
jaemaside from the detection part13:43
konttoriotg is able to switch on the fly. that's it13:43
RST38hApple BT Keyboard still does not work though =(13:43
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* RST38h sheds a tear at the cold aluminium13:43
jaemkonttori, on the fly, as in while running, or automatically?13:43
konttorihow come? someone needs to hack pple bt in!13:43
konttoriautomatically13:44
jaemkonttori, the N810 will power an OCZ Rally2 flash drive, which IMO is one of the best out there, and probably not easy on power13:44
jaemit won't power my Sandisk SD reader, though13:44
RST38hkonttori: Something is wrong with it :( The bt kbd connection method described at the summit does not work13:44
jaemannoyingly enough13:44
konttorifor read it can probably power it, but not for writing13:44
RST38hIt is recognized, but does not work13:44
jaemkonttori, the flash key works fine for oth13:44
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jaembut it won't even power up the card reader13:45
jaemI use the flash key all the time, actually13:45
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RST38hjaem: Seriously though, with 64MB top internal capacity in N900, why do you need a flash key?13:45
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jaemRST38h, fair point, and I always have a Nokia USB cable strapped onto my gadget holster (-grin-) anyway, but I do sometimes need to pull a file from a flash key I got from someone else13:46
RST38hjaem: I am lazy and thuse use SCP =)13:47
RST38hExcept for stuff like video of course13:47
gouverneurShapeshifter: where are you from_13:47
jaemone reason (although not currently, for me) is that one might potentially want to format most of the device as something other than vfat, in which case Windows computers can't read it13:47
gouverneurs/_/?13:47
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gouverneurjaem: thats not true!13:47
jaemRST38h, that works for a lot of those cases - scp has replaced flash keys for me for the most part, but it doesn't always work13:47
jaemfor one thing, my uni has blocked ssh in some of the labs13:48
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jaemapparently people were torrenting, tunnelled over their file server13:48
gouverneurjaem: tunnel over http13:48
jaemmy uni has a fast pipe13:48
jaemgouverneur, yeah, there are ways around it13:48
jaemplus they didn't block it on all the computers13:48
jaemno idea why - probably they didn't think it through13:48
jaemgouverneur, and as for fs's, I meant EXT3 and friends13:49
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gouverneurto block ssh internal universities should be punished by some dwarf axe fighter13:49
jaemand yes, I know there are drivers for Windows, but the local print shop, etc. isn't going to have that installed13:49
gouverneurjaem: me to13:49
jaemgouverneur, I fully agree, although they haven't blocked it in Residence13:49
jaem...yet13:49
jaemthere was some talk about blocking everything but ports 80 and 443, rather than actually *fixing* the horrible network issues13:50
jaemof course, you know that means13:50
jaem...VPN!13:50
gouverneurI just setup some new ntfs partitions to safe the games on because I had a strange feeling with speed and so while gaming from ext313:50
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jaemgouverneur, if you want to know how much our Residence network fails, check out the posts at http://creativemisconfiguration.com/13:51
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gouverneuruuuh13:52
RST38hIs that the name of your residential network? =)13:52
jaemRST38h, what?13:52
jaemit's the university residence13:52
RST38hCreative Misconfiguration ?13:52
jaemprovided by a third party, under contratr13:52
jaemmanditory13:52
jaemand full of fail13:52
jaemno13:52
jaemit's a domain my friend and I grabbed because it was made of Win13:53
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* RST38h wonders why a university would hire outside help for IT maintenance13:53
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jaemRST38h, it's not run through the university13:53
jaemthey don't want anything to do with Residence internet13:53
RST38hUniversity has not got enough of its own CS/IT students to manage it?13:53
jaemthe campus network is pretty well maintained13:53
jaemoh yeah, they do13:54
jaemwe tried to pitch that to them a few years ago13:54
jaembut they didn't go for it13:54
RST38hWhy waste money on outside fail then?13:54
jaemthe company's low on money, and Rez is just stingy13:54
jaemso nobody fixes anything13:54
jaemgranted, it's better than it used to be13:54
RST38hUsing students would still cost less13:54
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jaemfirst year, we payed $30/month for what was supposed to be 1.5Mbps downstream (actually more like dial-up at peak times)13:55
RST38hStudents is as cheap as you can possibly go, short of managing whole network from China13:55
jaemand it usually went out for about a week or so every time exams came up13:55
RST38hCan't you create your own network though?13:55
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jaemthey also did things like putting their logs on the same partition as the DHCP leases... and guess what happened... :/13:55
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jaemRST38h, we thought about setting up a rogue mesh :D but it would take far too much hardware, and most of the students are too apathetic to make it work13:56
jaemaside from that, not much we can do13:56
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javispedrohiyo13:57
jaemjavispedro, hiya13:57
feriping _marcell_13:58
RST38hjaem: You can use existing wires, just disconnect their uplink =)\13:58
jaemRST38h, No Comment ;)13:58
jaemthe sad thing is that they probably have set things up that poorly13:59
jaemor almost13:59
zaheermgot iplayer stuff all parsed now in python13:59
* javispedro searches for today's dealbreaker.... will it be "can I install harmattan on it?" 13:59
jaemjavispedro, "will harmattan+1 work on my Zune and sync with iTunes??!!1?"14:00
jaem:P14:00
javispedrowell, place your bets.14:00
RST38hjaem: of course it will, just apply drugs14:01
* jaem bets 5 Internets on what javispedro said14:01
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lardmancan dbus start an app?14:02
javispedroyeah14:02
RST38hyes14:02
javispedroin fact dbus is the way most apps are launched when tapped on the menu14:03
lardmanso I could issue a maemo.org.mbarcode.found_barcode message and any app that has registered itself as interested in that will be started and passed the message?14:03
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RST38hHmmm...AlmostTI is now the 2nd in terms of Maemo5 downloads14:04
wjtlardman: not exactly14:04
lardmanam just thinking that I hate webscraping code, and that I should either spin out all the barcode uses to individual apps, or to plugins14:04
javispedrolardman: well if the app is down how can it register itself as interested ;)14:04
wjtlardman: you can call a method on the service org.maemo.mbarcode, and if it's not running the bus daemon will started14:04
wjts/started/start it/14:04
infobotwjt meant: lardman: you can call a method on the service org.maemo.mbarcode, and if it's not running the bus daemon will start it14:04
lardmanjavispedro: exactly my question14:04
jaemRST38h, congrats!  Just downloaded it14:04
wjtinfobot: go to hell!14:04
infobotgo to hell is, like, a song14:04
lardmanhmm, not quite what I want then14:04
wjtbut applications can't randomly register to be launched when a message is sent14:05
javispedroyeah, your question reminds of the palmos notification framework14:05
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javispedrobut afaik I don't think there's anything similar on maemo right now..14:05
* jaem awards RST38h two Internets14:05
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lardmanwell I guess said apps could call maemo.org.notify_me and tell mbarcode their dbus call, then when mbarcode has something for them it can call them?14:06
lardmanmaemo.org.mbarcode.notify_me14:06
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javispedroguess so. or even add themselves to a gconf entry14:06
PaulFertserlardman: that's called dbus activation i guess14:06
PaulFertserlardman: the way they're started14:06
lardmanwhat would be the most usual/acceptible way to do this?14:06
jaemkonttori, blech... you were right when you said that package was packaged poorly :P14:06
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javispedroI think adding "interested" services to a gconf entry is not that bad14:08
lardmanI imagine dbus calls is preferable to plugins, as then something like the calendar app could listen for vcal data from a barcode14:08
lardmanetc14:08
javispedroguess so.14:08
lardmanI'm open to suggestions here14:09
lardman:)14:09
jaemokay... what the heck14:10
javispedroi assume just opening the vcal with the default registered app is not enough?14:10
jaemwhy does the BT pairing dialog invert the functionality of the -> key?14:10
lardmanI'm wondering if that will work14:10
jaeme.g. letters are 2nd fn14:10
lardmanjavispedro: but yes, that will work for e.g. vCal, vCard? and URLs14:11
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lardmanjavispedro: but other apps might want to handle e.g. MMS: some of the Japanese message formats, or just random 1D EAN/UPC or random 2D datasets14:11
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jaemgrr... apparently Maemo doesn't allow BT pairing with no key, either14:13
jaemto the Bugzilla!14:14
lardmanso how would one try to open a vCal entry programmatically?14:18
lardmansome dbus call for the calendar app?14:19
javispedropresumably, the file manager opens vcal files?14:19
lardmanyeah, I'll have to have a look at the source for that, assuming it's open14:20
javispedroi'm pretty sure it's a plain dbus call14:20
javispedroyou can use dbus-monitor14:20
javispedroor call qwerty12, he knows14:20
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lardmanI was wondering if rather than a specific call, there was a call one can make to the handler14:20
lardmanor perhaps that's what it does14:20
lardmanI'll have to check and see14:20
VDVsxjaem, it's because of the dialog context, normally the BT pin codes are numbers14:21
jaemVDVsx, I figured that out, but it's not immediately obvious14:21
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VDVsxjaem, true, in maemo4 there's a little bar that indicates that14:22
jaemVDVsx, mmhmm14:22
lardmanlibhildonmime14:23
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VDVsxjaem, and the 'no pin' option is related to upstream bluez, afaik, no directly Maemo fault14:24
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jaemVDVsx, I don't believe so... I know I've paired the wiimote with my old laptop (a year ago), and with my N81014:25
jaemand it won't pair with the N90014:25
konttorijaem: yeah, I was! and I know it oh so well, but I'm still to lazy to fix it :(14:25
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jaemcan you confirm that?14:25
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VDVsxjaem, that change in bluez414:25
VDVsx*changed14:25
jaemkonttori, well, at least remove the .DS_store from /usr/share/applications - it conflicts with another poorly packaged app14:25
jaemXD14:25
jaemVDVsx, changed for the worse?14:26
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konttorijaem: that would be the work that I would need to do, and that's what I'm too lazy to do atm14:26
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konttorimight be a good target for the day though.14:26
VDVsxjaem, they've a 'good' explanation for that, can't remember now :P14:26
lardmanok, looks like the Mime stuff should be ok, and it's automatically updated from the .desktop files which is nice14:26
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jaemVDVsx, is that like their explanation of why they have no API documentation for the 4.x series? ;)14:27
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VDVsxjaem, lol, search in docs folder14:28
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PaulFertserjaem: they do have documentation in the sources. And they do accept patches that clarify it ;)14:28
jaemVDVsx, forgive me if I asked this already (I can't remember), but are we going to see the shiny version of BlueMaemo that wazd was posting about, any time soon?14:28
jaemPaulFertser, heh... fair enough14:28
VDVsxjaem, a incomplete version is on the builder14:29
VDVsxbut the builder is stuck :(14:29
PaulFertserjaem: it's just mad confusing that bluez3-specific info is all over the internet and their wiki too. But almost all important docs are there in the docs directory in the source tarball and they're understandable enough.14:29
jaemVDVsx, kk... I've been waiting... it's so purty14:29
jaemPaulFertser, yeah, that had me going for a while... thanks a lot for the tip14:29
VDVsxjaem, I'm waiting for more art from wazd, the rest is done14:30
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jaemI need to get Bluetooth working for a project in short order, and was dreading it14:30
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jaemVDVsx, I figured I'd poke at your code to see how to do the pairing initiation and such :)14:30
pupnik_nice14:31
VDVsxjaem, in maemo is just a d-bus call14:31
jaemVDVsx, awesome14:31
jaemthat will simplify things14:31
pupnik_can the zeemote be integrated?14:31
jaemdo you have any experience with rfcomm device nodes?14:31
jaemspecifically, the creation of them?14:31
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VDVsxjaem, the api: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/bluez/14:31
jaemI need to bang bits at a sensor board14:31
jaemalso awesome14:31
VDVsxvery poor indeed14:32
VDVsxjaem, I sec and I'll send you the pairing stuff14:32
jaemVDVsx, thanks!14:32
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VDVsxjaem, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Maemo_Connectivity#Bluetooth_DBUS_UI_dialogs14:32
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VDVsxuse those d-bus calls one shows the list and the other one is a signal that sends the selected device14:33
jaemnice14:33
jaemI should just stay up until 4am on IRC every day14:33
PaulFertserjaem: there're some good (and bad) examples is the tests directory in python.14:33
jaemPaulFertser, yeah... most of the decent stuff on the net seems to be Python14:34
PaulFertserjaem: (talking about bluez calls)14:34
VDVsxjaem, works for maemo4 and 514:34
jaemwe don't need to do much, to be honest14:34
jaemjust pair, create an rfcomm device node, and hand it off to the serial communication code that someone else is writing14:34
VDVsxjaem, C stuff is a wat more complex14:34
jaemVDVsx, I gathered that14:34
PaulFertserjaem: read serial-api.txt for that14:34
VDVsxS/wat/way/14:35
jaembut C is our only option for this14:35
jaemPaulFertser, sure14:35
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VDVsxjaem, here are a lot of simple C examples: http://www.btessentials.com/examples/examples.html14:35
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jaemVDVsx, S60 BT examples too?  Perfect14:41
jaemwe're planning a port, once we get the Maemo app working14:41
jaemyay14:41
VDVsxjaem, warning: pyS60 BT stuff is very very bad and very very broken :P14:42
VDVsxpersonal opinion of course ^14:42
jaemVDVsx, fair enough, but it may be a starting point14:42
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jaemwe won't be using Python, in any case14:42
jaemtoo fat for what we're doing14:42
VDVsxjaem, ah, so you're safe14:42
jaem*I'm* safe because I'm the Maemo guy - I won't be touching S60 :P14:42
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jaemRST38h, getting graphical glitches in ATI8514:43
jaemwhen you try to click out of the "Needs ROM image" banner, it flickers like crazy14:44
jaemare you aware of that one?14:44
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VDVsxjaem, luck you, every time I look at S60 stuff, I lose year of my live :P14:47
Stskeepsoh, wow14:47
Stskeepsthey open sources osso-applet-screencalibration14:47
Stskeepsd14:47
jaemStskeeps, woo!14:48
jaemVDVsx, that's the impression I got14:48
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jaem_n900just because I can ;)14:53
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PaulFertserjaem: does n900 has a more sane (read terminal junkie-friendly) keyboard layout by default?14:53
jaem_n810VDVsx, PaulFertser, thanks a lot for your help!14:54
jaemPaulFertser, unfortunately, no14:54
jaemarguably worse14:54
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jaemalthough that's largely because there are less keys available to remap14:54
VDVsxjaem, np :)14:54
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PaulFertserjaem: :((( nokia customer "care" at its best14:55
jaemhowever, the keyboard itself is so much better that typing it on it for most tasks is a reasonably pleasant experience14:55
jaemPaulFertser, I would have loved a 5-row keyboard, or at least another 4-row, but given that their main target market isn't the terminal-using type, I can't fault them too much14:55
PaulFertserjaem: before i actually tried n810 keyboard i thought it's better. But now i'm disappointed, the feedback is too strange.14:55
jaemand it *is* a really nice keyboard14:55
_berto_I find it reasonably good for the shell14:55
_berto_and I do a lot of ssh14:55
jaemwait, you like the N810 keyboard better?!14:56
jaemthe N900 took a bit of getting used to, but now I can't stand my N810's14:56
PaulFertserjaem: i thought n810 keyboard is better than it actually is.14:56
jaemplus I can't touch-type on it anymore :P14:56
jaemah14:56
jaemwell, the N900's keyboard blows it out of the water14:56
_berto_I think the n900 keyboard is more pleasant to use14:56
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jaemmy only annoyance is that they put two switches under the space key, so while it doesn't *actually* double-press, it sometimes feels like it has, and throws off my touch-typing14:57
jaemalso, a right-shift would have been nice14:57
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jaemthe arrow keys are great, thoguh14:57
jaema D-Pad would have been nice, but the N900's arrow keys are a sight better than the N810's D-Pad, in general terms14:57
jaemso I'll take what I can get14:58
PaulFertser_berto_: on n810 i lack esc, tab, / is not convenient... Also no meta key (and esc is inconvenient)...14:58
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jaemthat was actually my general impression of the N900 - lots of things that could have been done better/more to my liking, but still a fairly solid device, and a huge step in the right direction14:58
_berto_PaulFertser: it's obviously not perfect for the shell, but it's reasonably good14:58
jaemPaulFertser, give me a moment - link14:58
_berto_I wouldn't expect a thinkpad keyboard on a pocket device :p14:58
tigertits pretty sweet compromise14:59
jaemPaulFertser, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?s=d629f515ca9252db8a95e56d06a6f43b&p=314242&postcount=414:59
jaemI use that layout on my N810, and it's much better14:59
jaemkeep in mind that the "back" key is mapped to Esc14:59
_berto_ah yes14:59
PaulFertserjaem: lack of usb host is something that i found unacceptable. Also the price. It's so fucking much more than ~$200 you can buy a freerunner for, and freerunner is on the order of magnitude more free.14:59
_berto_in the n900 it's a bit more annoying, but still ...14:59
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jaemPaulFertser, yeah, and I take your point, but IIRC the Freerunning is nowhere close in terms of hardware specs15:00
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jaemthe N900 is a beautiful device15:00
jaemthat said, I can't afford one either15:00
jaemI just have mine on extended loan from my prof :P15:00
jaemlucky me15:00
pupnik_nice15:01
jaemwhile ~$600 is a lot of money, it's also not out of the way for phones of that calibre15:01
PaulFertserjaem: indeed. But FR has usb host. And you can connect spi chips or whatever to it. Hackability is superior. Anyway, have a nice day, gtg :) good luck.15:01
jaemand this one is better than most15:01
jaemPaulFertser, true15:01
jaemcheers15:01
pupnik_is top of the line pocket computer for 60015:01
_berto_well, I have a freerunner15:01
jaempupnik_, yeah, I'm pretty happy :)15:01
pupnik_not too much!15:01
_berto_and it's apples and oranges15:01
pupnik_mhm15:02
jaem_berto_, that's the thing15:02
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jaempart of me says "that's not a bad price", and the other part says "I could buy a decent desktop for half again as much"15:02
jaembut you can't really compare them15:02
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pupnik_right, desktop is 9ps15:02
pupnik_90s15:02
_berto_with the n900 i don't even feel like switching on my laptop when I get home15:02
jaempupnik_, ?15:02
pupnik_space bending power in hand is 00s15:03
jaemyeah, true15:03
jaemI just meant in terms of raw power15:03
jaembut no, the N900 is sweet15:03
jaemI love being able to use it just like a laptop15:03
pupnik_yup15:03
jaemthe N810 was nice, but deficient in some ways15:03
jaemkind of like using a P III for web use15:04
pupnik_i notice youtube is comparatively fast vs other flash video sites...15:04
jaemdoable, but not fun15:04
jaemand not always usable for everything15:04
jaemthe N900 is much more like I'd hoped when I first bought the N81015:04
jaempupnik_, yeah, but the player buttons aren't as responsive as I'd like15:04
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jaemalso, microB/Maemo Browser has some rough edges15:05
jaemcase in point, the Addons dialog15:05
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pupnik_maybe we can somehow end bloated websites with the new gen portables15:05
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jaemoops15:05
* jaem left the milk out downstairs :O15:05
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jaemtoo bad I'll have to leave the compu--- ...oh wait :P15:06
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pupnik_id like those different unneeded blocks, tags, regions15:06
pupnik_to be inactive memort and cpuwise15:06
pupnik_heh jaem15:06
jaem_n810ping15:06
jaem_n900ping15:06
jaem_n900-grin-15:07
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tigertreal men use screen and irssi to avoid duplicate irc presence ;)15:09
jaem_n900tigert, yeah I know15:09
jaem_n900I keep meaning to learn irssi15:09
jaem_n900but it's a bit awkward on the N90's kbd15:09
tigertthe terminal on n900 + openssh is one killer app for lots of things15:10
jaem_n900indeed15:10
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jaem_n900but all the shortcuts in irssi get a bit painfil15:10
jaem_n900I presume you can remap them?15:10
Jaffatigert: Is there a magic way of getting irssi to do nick highlighting wherever your nick appears in text, rather than just '^jaffa: '?15:10
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Nitialsimply /hilight jaffa15:13
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Nitialyou need options to make it match only the nick ;)15:13
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JaffaNitial: And is that persistent? (Not that I restart it often, but...)15:13
tigert"^jaffa:" does look like a regexp ;)15:13
tigertwhich matches beginning of line + your nick + colon15:13
Jaffatigert: Yes, because that's the behaviour I see OOtB15:14
tigertyeah15:14
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Nitialsave your config15:14
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Jaffa'/save' seemed to do that.15:14
Jaffata15:14
tigertyea default hilight is ^$nick: I guess15:14
tigert /layout save saves your windows and query windows and stuff15:15
tigert /save saves config15:15
lardmanhmm, when did javispedro vanish?15:16
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AndrewFBlackIs it just me or is there no way to rename a fil on Maemo5 using file manager?15:25
jaem_n900andr15:26
jaem_n810AndrewFBlack, click and hold15:26
JaffaAndrewFBlack: Tap & hold? There's a menu, but I dunno if it includes "Rename"15:27
kalikianaAndrewFBlack, in the context menu15:27
jaem_n810yep15:27
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AndrewFBlackok didn't know about that menu I been using regular memu for move and delete so far15:27
AndrewFBlackI knew they hadn't removed rename file lol15:28
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pupnik_where do i see n900 cpu speed15:28
kirma"see" ?15:29
pupnik_read15:29
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pupnik_numbers15:29
rangeCan't you feel it? :)15:29
kalikianathrow it across the room and see how fast it goes :)15:29
kirmapowertop on console maybe15:29
rangeProbably somewhere in /sys/ as I don't think that you'll have /proc/acpi on that system.15:29
bleaderno /proc/cpuinfo ?15:30
bleader(Haven't a maemo device yet, sorry if this is obviously wrong to everybody :p)15:30
range/sys/devices/system/cpu maybe.15:30
kalikiana/proc/cpuinfo is there15:31
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pupnik_bogomips is 1:1 mhz?15:32
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bleaderpupnik_: tends to be 2:1MHz on non x86 arch15:32
bleaderfrom what I've seen15:32
pupnik_reporting 249.96 bogomips atm15:32
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rangepupnik_: No, bogomips is bogo.15:33
pupnik_opÃen shell, 4 progs in bg15:33
bleadercat /dev/zero > /dev/null15:33
rangeYou can really (no not even then) only compare same CPUs against each other with that.15:33
rangeAnd I don't think the bogomips value gets updated.15:33
bleadertrue15:34
rangecpu MHz might if in cpuinfo :)15:34
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pupnik_i looked through all of /proc15:37
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pupnik_i mean sys15:37
pupnik_tryin proc now15:37
RST38hmoo pupnik15:38
pupnik_hi15:38
pupnik_nm15:38
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javispedroOvi Store's policy is today's dealbreaker. With nearly 10 pages worth of posts today, definitely.15:41
jaemjavispedro, aw... I lost15:41
* jaem gives javispedro the 5 Internets he bet15:42
jaemI actually have a textbook with the word "Internets" in its title15:42
jaemalthough it's using the word correctly, and not as a Bushism15:42
jaemheh15:42
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jaemwell, goodnight folks15:43
jaemor... well... morning, now15:43
jaem>_<15:43
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javispedrogood night in irc local time15:44
jaemUGT? :P15:44
javispedrothat.15:44
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Anprheya, any news about n900 in uk ?15:46
bleaderplay.com still list it for 30th15:46
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Anprheh15:47
Anpri hear some rumour that it will be in flagship shop in london today15:47
Anprheard15:47
bleaderyeah I read this too somewhere15:48
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Lorthirkgreat, my n900 is on its way :D15:49
bleaderit's shown as ready to be sent on french nokia website, haven't check the uk one lately15:49
AnprLorthirk are u from uk  ? :)15:49
Lorthirkno Anpr, sorry... i'm from italy15:49
Anpr:)15:49
Anpranyway it's cool, because something's going15:50
Lorthirkof course15:50
* SpeedEvil wonders why italy gets it before UK.15:50
* Anpr wonders as well15:50
Lorthirki read across some italian forums, people has its credit cards billed15:50
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SpeedEvilnokia.co.uk store says 'week beginning 32nd november.15:51
* Lorthirk wonders too, since usually Italy lags behind any others15:51
SpeedEvilerr15:51
SpeedEvil23rd15:51
bleaderLorthirk: was it a pre-order ?15:51
Lorthirkno bleader15:51
Anprso brithish people do, believe me :D15:51
Lorthirkordered it today15:51
bleaderon nokia's website ?15:51
pupnik_openarena is great, suggest auto-aim in y-axis only!!15:52
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Lorthirkyep15:52
pupnik_also allow player to quit game!15:52
Lorthirkwith a gorgeous 20% off15:52
pupnik_no tax?15:52
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bleaderLorthirk: what's the original price in italy ?15:53
Lorthirkno, i had a coupon code15:53
Lorthirk599 but everyone's ordering it with a coupon code15:53
lardman|homewhere's the dbus maestro qwerty?15:53
Lorthirkso i got it for 494 express shipping included15:53
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bleaderLorthirk: ok, thanks, it's 50 more in france... and I don't have a coupon, so I have to pay 649 euros if I want to order it now...15:54
Lorthirkhonestly i think it's a f'n great deal :D15:54
Lorthirkdifferent prices among europe?15:54
Lorthirkthat's weird :\15:54
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bleadernop, only france15:54
bleadertaxes and so on15:54
Lorthirkthat's even more weird15:54
bleaderyeah france !15:54
javispedroRST38h: did you order the DDP one after all?15:54
Lorthirkoh, ok15:54
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Lorthirkmy iphone is starting to cry15:55
Lorthirkhe knows he'll be replaced soon!15:55
RST38hjavis: I did, a few weeks ago15:55
bleaderThat's why I lurking on play.com :) (and I would rather get a qwerty keyboard)15:55
* Lorthirk mwahahahah15:55
RST38hjavis: They took money from my bank account, then apparently put it back15:55
RST38hjavis: $370 it was, I think15:55
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javispedroRST38h: and that's why I am considering ordering it now :D15:55
RST38hjavis: You may end up buying two this way ;)))15:56
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RST38hjavis: I would just keep watching the tmo thread for now15:56
javispedroRST38h: no, no, ordering it throught the ddp15:56
javispedroI've not done it yet.15:56
RST38hjavis: Oh you have not ordered it through DDP yet? I guess it will not be bad to order15:56
lardman|homejavispedro: sorry I missed your pm15:56
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javispedrolardman: np, don't worry.15:57
* javispedro goes to FN15:57
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Anprnow i wonder how do u get this coupon, Lorthirk ?15:57
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lardman|homeanyone got a link to how to open an URL using C dbus calls for Diablo?16:13
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LorthirkAnprrr i read it on a forum, it seems it's a sort of "if you order something in november, your next order has 20% off"16:16
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RST38hlardman: You want the Tear thread on tmo, it is there16:17
VDVsxwazd, ping16:17
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Stskeepsnot bad at 480$ n900 on amazon16:18
RST38hit is quickly getting into the same range as discount16:20
RST38h(DDP discount I mean)16:20
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javispedroyeah, and they have warranty.16:20
SpeedEvilI'm not sure selling without warranty is actually legal in much of the EU16:22
gouverneurStskeeps: over here it doesnt get lower than $735.56 yet16:22
lardman|homeRST38h: thanks will take a look16:22
gouverneurwhat was discount for US?16:22
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hrwSpeedEvil: DDP ones have warranty. but for one week16:24
Khertanhrw: lol16:25
hrwanyway they look like vaporware16:25
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Khertani'm not sure that they can do that in Europe ... as waranty must be more than 1 year for any product ... and with rebates too16:25
SpeedEvilhrw: yes - that's not actually legal16:26
javispedroyeah, you have a point.16:26
SpeedEvil(AIUI)16:26
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SpeedEvilEven the cooling off period for distance transactions in the UK is longer than that.16:26
javispedroIANAL ;)16:26
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Stskeepsi'd say DDP may be under another type of contract than typical retail though16:29
viqDDP ?16:29
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javispedroretail is retail -- im an individual.16:30
Stskeepsjavispedro: i think some screwup may happen from the fact they're trying out b2b stuff for individuals..16:31
Stskeeps:P16:31
Stskeepsthe whole not charging VAT is weird too :P16:31
javispedrothat's already happening.16:31
javispedroyes.16:31
Stskeepsi mean, it makes sense b2b.16:31
Stskeepsbut to individuals it doesn't16:31
qwerty12Stskeeps: Shh! They were trying to keep that quiet...16:31
Stskeepsmm16:31
Stskeeps:P16:31
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lardman|homeRST38h: should I be looking further than the Tear-specific dbus call?16:33
lardman|homeI hope so16:34
javispedrolardman: you have to do it through dbus? there's another method.16:34
qwerty12lardman|home: If it's a file: hildon-mime16:34
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lardman|homeno, I have an URL16:34
lardman|homeyeah there's the osso stuff isn't there16:34
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javispedrohildon_uri_open and the like16:35
lardman|homethat works on Diablo?16:35
javispedroyeah16:36
lardman|homeany docs for that?16:36
javispedroI'd guess so.16:36
javispedrohttps://git.maemo.org/projects/drnoksnes/?p=drnoksnes;a=blob_plain;f=gui/about.c;hb=HEAD16:36
javispedrocheck the cb_url_response function.16:36
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* javispedro must have copied that from somewhere since there's a unused gerror there.16:37
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lardman|homethe wonders of the underdocuemented hildon-mime lib16:37
lardman|homeqwerty12: what do you know about opening using MIME when the data is in memory?16:38
qwerty12I don't?16:38
lardman|homeoh, shame16:39
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lardman|homee.g. I'd like to get the default handler to handle my vCard or iCal data16:39
lardman|homeetc16:39
qwerty12hildon_mime_open_file() works when you give it a path to a file...16:40
javispedroI guess you'll have to write to /tmp16:41
javispedrolike Modest, doesn't it?16:41
gouverneurviq: DDP = Developer Device Program16:41
lardman|homefair enough16:41
viqgouverneur: thank you16:42
kalikianalardman|home, I think you can use GIO for that16:42
lardman|homeGIO?16:42
javispedroGIO is fremantle only16:42
qwerty12kalikiana: Oh, BTW, thank you. You have no idea how long I've wished for a dpkg hook that did gtk-update-icon-cache =)16:43
gouverneurgerman nokia.de announces special deals at the online showroom for Nov. 24th, maybe there is a N900 special available, they did it with the n97, a few days after release there was a special offer available16:43
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lardman|homehttp://www.giostockings.com/ ?16:43
lardman|homefirst hit on Google...16:43
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lardman|homemore likely this I guess? ;) http://library.gnome.org/devel/gio/stable/16:44
javispedrohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIO_(GNOME)16:44
kalikianalardman|home, I was more thinking of g_app_info_get_default_for_type16:44
kalikianaqwerty12, I only learned about that feature recently, but it's quite nice :)16:44
kalikianalardman|home, yes, that's it16:45
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lardman|homehmm, so my uri could be a string containing the vcard info then?16:46
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lardman|homedepends if vcard: is handled I guess16:47
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kalikianalardman|home, no, you would just query the right application for it16:48
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kalikianaunless that application is able to use data:// uris16:49
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lardman|homekalikiana: hmm, so won't add anything over and above using the mime fns then?16:49
lopzhi ;/16:49
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kalikianawell, hildon_mime doesn't have a way to tell you which application handles what16:49
kalikianaso it does add something16:50
lardman|homeah I see16:50
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lardman|homeI don't care about the app though, I just want the data handled by whatever is the default16:50
kalikianathen write it to a file in /temp16:50
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Venomrush3 USIM issue is now fixed it seems.16:51
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Venomrushin v2.2009.47-2016:51
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hrwVenomrush: and .47-20 will be available in 2010?16:51
hrwlike it was with n810 bootloader fix when users had to wait months16:52
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Venomrushhrw, not sure mate16:53
Venomrushdo you need any specific permission to gain access to testing firwmares?16:53
Venomrushi can't find this information anywhere16:53
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Andy80hi all16:54
hrwVenomrush: no idea about permissions. but that does not matter for me yet16:54
Andy80a friend of mine tried to register to maemo.org, he cannot receive the confirmation email so he cannot login and register for the Maemo Barcelona event... how can we solve this?16:55
Venomrushwell rather than someone posting out the sim cards to test16:55
Venomrushwouldn't it be better to upload it somewhere private for testers16:55
Venomrushto confirm and verify the issue16:55
pupnik_ahhh chopin16:55
VenomrushAndy80, register with different username + email is the quickiest way16:56
VDVsxAndy80, it usually takes some time (maemo.org registration)16:57
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VDVsxor probably the confirmation email end up in the spam folder16:58
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hrwAndy80: and maemo.org is not so fast16:58
Andy80already checked spam...16:59
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RST38hVenomrush: I think you should take your helpful idea directly to Quim Gil17:03
RST38hSurely, he will be delighted to hear about it17:03
* RST38h cackles17:03
Venomrushwhat's the best way to contact him17:04
RST38hWhy, by email of course17:05
VenomrushI don't have his email17:05
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RST38hShould I teach you how to locate it?17:06
Andy80Venomrush: I sent him a travelling pigeoun once, but the poor animal died because of too cold, before landing to Helsinki :\17:06
* qwerty12 sits down for Cyberstalking 101, by RST38h 17:06
StskeepsVenomrush: testing fws are normally under NDA and you need some degree of contractual relationship with nokia to get them17:06
RST38hStskeeps: You are spoiling all the fun17:07
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VenomrushStskeeps, that destroys the point of open source OS17:07
StskeepsVenomrush: meh, open source..17:07
RST38hVenomrush: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=quim+gil+email17:07
StskeepsVenomrush: it's a valid problematique though, why couldn't testing fw's technically be public17:07
qwerty12RST38h: Your class sucks17:08
RST38hqwerty: But, incredibly, it finds the needed email =)17:08
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Stskeeps(besides a pandoras box of gpl problems to provide source for every single one..)17:08
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Venomrushit didn't..17:09
RST38hreally?17:09
lardmanre17:09
RST38hVenomrush: The very first link is titled "Mailing List Archive: Maemo: quim.gil at nokia"17:09
ccooke... Hmm. I wonder how badly Dwarf Fortress would run on the n900 :-)17:10
ccooke(Leaving aside the fact that it's clossed source and x86 only for now)17:10
Venomrushah cool17:11
Venomrushthought it was a mailing list from him17:11
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hrwVenomrush: testing firmwares can for example brick totally device in a way which will require JTAG access. do you have 1.8V jtag at home and know where to connect it in n900?17:11
RST38hccooke: Wait. Somebody finally made a decent 3D roguelike?17:11
* javispedro 's been billed by ddp17:11
ccookeRST38h: you've not heard of Dwarf Fortress?17:11
javispedroah sigh.17:11
RST38hNope17:11
* RST38h is dull, as you all know17:11
suihkulokkiRST38h: it is called WoW17:11
suihkulokkioh, wait, that is 3D MUD17:12
hrwjavispedro: billed as 'got cash grabbed from card not just reserved/blocked'?17:12
RST38hsuihkulokki: WoW is some kind of drugs, afaik17:12
Venomrushi wuoldn't mind buying the toolkit if it was available17:12
ccookeRST38h: Go read the story of Boatmurdered (which is old, from before DF became 3d... but *funny*)17:12
javispedrohrw: just reserved afai see.17:12
* suihkulokki wonders why there is seemingly so little free/OSS opengl es code around17:12
hrwjavispedro: thats normal. mine is at that state since 10 Nov17:13
kirmanice. my N900 delivery is in exception state in rotterdam...17:13
muep__there aren't many free opengl es implementations around17:13
suihkulokki2.0 variant especially17:13
ccookeDwarf Fortress is the most scarily complete simulation game I have ever heard of. It's under heavy and active development, uses text mode in opengl and isn't particularly easy to learn. It's also pretty hard, but *seriously* well made.17:13
Stskeepssuihkulokki: one problematique could be that it evolved from copyrighted example code.. or the fact not many people have encountered gles2 on 'sane' systems :P17:13
hrwccooke: but also it is closed and x86 only17:13
ccookehrw: yes.17:14
RST38hsuihkulokki: Most desktop people use OpenGL17:14
ccookehrw: however, I'm considering using it over the network with X :-)17:14
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javispedrohrw: yeah, I was hoping they wouldn't do it seeing recent news.17:14
javispedronot much hw using oglesv2.0 on the wild.17:15
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hrwccooke: that does not change situation. I do not have x86 with good, fast opengl17:15
javispedroiphone 3gs --> nobody uses it since it breaks apple dream's of backwards compatibility17:15
hrwccooke: and my x86-64 may lack opengl 32bit libs17:15
javispedropandora --> not released17:15
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RST38hjavis: There is Symbian17:16
javispedroRST38h: does anybody code for symbian? ;)17:16
adeusonly the mad ones17:16
RST38hDwarf Fortress available for the Mac...hm17:16
* RST38h laughs satanically17:16
ccookehrw: ah, yes. http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/System_requirements17:16
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RST38hjavis: [politely] yea, some people do...17:17
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suihkulokkijavispedro: ah, I thought iphone had gles2 already in the 3g model17:21
javispedrowell, gles2 is a feature of the SoC not of the baseband.17:21
suihkulokkire pandora, did they port any cool game yet we should steal^Wshare from them to extras?17:22
hrwsuihkulokki: quake1/2? or they are alreaady present?17:22
javispedroRST38h: guess you're right, basically symbian was one of the  first platforms with v217:23
RST38hActually, baseband chip is also a SoC17:23
RST38hJust a smaller and slower one17:23
suihkulokkihrw: Q3A17:23
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Venomrushfirefox just crashed on me17:25
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Stskeepsget a real irc client by now :P17:25
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Venomrushhmm nah i prefer to use browser intergrated IRC  :p17:27
Venomrushit seems Opera one is the best17:27
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hrwsuihkulokki: in OpenEmbedded we have ioquake3, quake3-pandora-gles17:34
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iDialektHi17:50
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Stskeepslardman: ping17:54
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Stskeepslardman: mail for you18:03
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lardmanStskeeps: got it, thanks18:08
lardmanStskeeps: has it changed?18:08
Stskeepsi didn't have great success but please test on your end18:08
lardmanwill do18:08
Stskeepsi don't believe in my own setups after i opened my n810 so18:08
Stskeeps:P18:08
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t_s_ohmm, linux has spotty hardware support? http://www.infoworld.com/d/cloud-computing/why-chrome-os-will-fail-big-time-28718:09
logicshttp://www.infoworld.com/d/cloud-computing/why-chrome-os-will-fail-big-time-28718:09
t_s_o:P18:09
logicsoops; "click to select" instead "clicked to paste" :)18:10
wazdReheya all18:10
* qwerty12 waves at wazd18:10
zashHistory repeats itself, it's the second comming of centralized computing and thinn clients!18:11
mgedminonly second?18:11
suihkulokkit_s_o: I get a big windows ad when cliking on that. makes wonder who paid for the article :P18:12
lardmanhow are mime types for random files determined?18:12
t_s_ozash: i suspect the reason why the first one failed, was that one could not have a always on connection to multiple systems18:12
t_s_osuihkulokki: did not see that, but then i have noscript installed...18:12
lardmansuihkulokki: same here :D18:12
* suihkulokki clicks on the ad to move more money away from redmond18:13
zasht_s_o: and/or that computers became cheep enouch so everyone could have one18:13
SpeedEvilzash: At least third18:13
wazdSomebody wrote me something18:13
SpeedEvilzash: Dumb serial terminals - X terminals18:13
wazdA while ago)18:13
SpeedEvilMaybe fourth.18:13
t_s_ozash: and good enough to run the then interesting apps, like spreadsheets ;)18:13
SpeedEvilBatch services where you submitted your program for running on the central computer from a desktop cardpunch18:13
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t_s_oi would say that the x terminals basically built on the older telnet/serial terminals, giving them a gui layer...18:14
lardmanhmm, are there standard libraries which will handle things like mmsto: or vcard: or ical: ?18:16
lardmanas a URI sort of thing?18:16
wazdqwerty12: how's it going with transmission?)18:17
qwerty12wazd: It's not, ATM - gonna look on the weekend :\18:18
wazdqwerty12: you're gonna be punished! I'm calling Roman :D18:19
* lardman heads for home to do some mbarcode coding18:19
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qwerty12wazd: NOOOO!!! :p18:19
Shapeshiftergouverneur: I'm from switzerland.18:21
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wazdqwerty12: we'll see your behavoiur after 24 hours of balalayka music!18:23
qwerty12letmeoutletmeoutletmeout18:23
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VDVsx-testing is down again ? :(18:24
mmatthanybody having problems in sbox with gdb crashing when it is reading symbols for libQtGui.so.4 ?18:25
VDVsxmmatth, the default one is kinda broken18:26
pupnik_should we even bother filing bugs we can't repeat?18:26
VDVsxtry to compile and use 0.7 version18:26
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pupnik_somehow i prefer talking direct to software authors18:27
VDVsxS/0.7/7.0/18:27
mmatthstill feeling my way around with open-source, i should compile & install 0.7 version of gdb?  can you give me a quick tip on where to find the source for the 0.7 version?18:27
adeus7.0 indeed18:27
adeus0.7 is quite old :)18:28
pupnik_apt-get source18:28
VDVsxadeus, eheh18:28
pupnik_if you can't pull in binaries, grab source from debian18:28
pupnik_is what i did18:28
adeuseven the default one hasn't crashed on me though18:28
mmatththanks18:28
jaska0.7 would be over 23 years old18:29
VDVsxadeus, I've seen a lot of ppl complaining about it18:29
Klownerhmm, amazon changed the price again?18:30
gouverneurShapeshifter: where? aunt is in Berner Oberland and mum  Oberer Zurisee18:30
Khertanno voluntary to port to fremantle a git version which work with garage ?18:30
pupnik_oh a real keyboard is such a luxury after a day of thumbs18:30
Shapeshiftergouverneur: zürcher oberland ;)18:31
VDVsxmmatth, adeus , from the wiki: "Note: Fremantle X86 Gdb crashes. Using gdb 7.0 is recommended. "18:31
VDVsxhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Qt^18:31
adeusI've managed to dodge the bullets hen18:31
adeusthen18:31
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adeus..and used the harmattan repos recently :P18:32
adeussomeone should port valgrind for arm18:32
gouverneurShapeshifter: ;)18:33
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pupnik_42-11 "Call With Skype" yields "Incorrect Address" even with a + at beginning of number18:36
ccookepupnik_: have you enabled calling phones?18:39
ccookesettings / im and voip accounts / your skyp account / settings18:39
pupnik_oh not that i recall18:39
pupnik_skype says enabled18:40
ccookeright, that's a bug then :-)18:40
pupnik_ah enable calling phones is enabled18:40
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pupnik_dint see that ty18:41
pupnik_maybe my free calls arent activated18:41
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pupnik_summit world package appears active18:42
pupnik_either bug or bad err message18:44
pupnik_tz18:44
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lardmanre18:44
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* GeneralAntilles sighs at DDP.18:50
* GeneralAntilles wonders if Nokia realizes treating contributors like crap is not a good way to encourage future contribution.18:51
derfGA: I doubt they realize they're treating them like crap.18:51
lardmanvery very odd, mbarcode on diablo now looks hildonised18:51
derflardman: Oh, so it works on Diablo now?18:51
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well, at least it seems like the DDP experiment with community people didn't work out well so far :P18:52
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, unfortunately we seem to be  loosing a lot of good people in the process.18:52
lardmanderf: yeah sorry been busy decorating18:52
lardmanderf: but yes, just testing the url open code now18:53
derfNo worries, I've been pretty busy also.18:53
lardmanI want to spin off all the data handling to other apps, as I hate writing webscraper code18:53
kirmaGeneralAntilles: maybe Nokia is trying to compete with Apple18:53
derfI don't blame you.18:53
lardmanplus then I might get a chance to look at the libdmtx code, which is far too slow for my liking18:53
GeneralAntilleskirma, hey, Apple just replaced my 5-year-old G5 with a brand new Mac Pro.18:54
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lardmanand you were still bitching iirc ;)18:55
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GeneralAntillesSure, because it was a pain in the ass, but at least I knew whether I was getting a warranty with it. ;)18:55
lardmanI know, just pulling your leg18:56
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GeneralAntillesAnyway, what Apple does isn't really relevant.18:56
GeneralAntillesThe fact is, we've got several people threatening to move to other platforms over it.18:56
GeneralAntillesThis is not the situation that a discount program like that should create.18:56
lardmanyep, quite18:56
lardmanhmm, hildon_uri_open() seems to do nothing much on Diablo18:57
GeneralAntillesIt's the OPPOSITE of the effect we're after, actually.18:57
JamieBennettX-Fade: you around?18:57
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lardmanhey JamieBennett18:57
JamieBennetthey lardman18:57
GeneralAntillesJamieBennett, he's on vacation.18:57
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lardmanhow's things?18:57
JamieBennett:(18:57
lbtJamieBennett: ..... videos?18:58
JamieBennettyep18:58
lbtproblems?18:58
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JamieBennettneed some space to upload Zeeshan's video as I can't convert it here for Vimeo18:59
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zaheermwow is the builder stalled or something19:01
zaheermi can see like 8 apps queued for the fremantle builder19:01
* lardman wonders if X-Fade left an "only call in an emergency" number... :)19:01
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lardmanzaheerm: I pushed a package earlier today to Diablo19:02
qwerty12Explains it19:02
JamieBennettapparently Zeeshan needs the video quick, I have it down to a 55mb .avi but I can't upload to vimeo here (can convert it to the right format it seems) and its 80$ to send it through the post.19:02
lardmantho there were loads in the fremantle queue then too19:02
lardmanqwerty12: :p19:03
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JamieBennettAre _any_ Nokia guys (or gals) around now?19:03
zaheermJamieBennett, you can upload to a free dropbox account19:03
zaheermJamieBennett, and share it with zeeshan19:03
JamieBennettah, me goes to look19:03
lardmanotherwise I can upload to to my (uni) webserver19:04
JamieBennettI still need to get it to you though lardman19:04
lardmanyeah exactly19:04
zaheermlardman, there are packages from 5 hours ago19:04
lardmanzaheerm: hmm, perhaps qwerty12 was right ;)19:05
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lardmanhas anyone successfully used hildonmime?19:05
zaheermJamieBennett, dropbox give you 2GB free19:05
lardmanor is that why we all use libosso to access the browser?19:05
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zaheermhow do i make python packages make a noarch package rather than an i386/armel one?19:07
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VDVsxzaheerm, the builder was kicked a will ago, should be working fine now19:07
VDVsxS/will/while/19:08
zaheermVDVsx, it is dying that it needs a will? :)19:08
VDVsxbut -testing seems down anyway :(19:08
lardmanprobably needs to be put out of it's misery and restarted19:08
qwerty12zaheerm: Off the top of my head, Architecture: All and use the binary-indep in rules instead of binary-arch19:08
lardmans/it's/its19:09
lardmanargh, bloody Garage is like molasses too19:09
andre__anybody knows a page anywhere that lists the Bluetooth skills of the N900? Like DUN, Object Push, Generic Object Exchange, Serial Port, ...? http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ does not19:10
Stskeepsandre__: out of curiousity, what bug are you glancing at?19:10
VDVsxX-Fade, please come back sooonnnnnn19:11
qwerty12VDVsx: Get SuperTux on the case19:11
andre__Stskeeps, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555019:11
povbotBug 5550: "Not enough memory in target location" when receiving image from Nokia SU-1B using Bluetooth19:11
VDVsxandre__, yup forum nokia19:11
andre__i think it's invalid (or: not supported)19:11
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VDVsxqwerty12, humm ?19:11
qwerty12VDVsx: Make Tux find X-Fade and bring him back :p19:12
VDVsxlol19:12
VDVsxandre__,  A2DP, AVRCP, FTP, HFP, HSP, OPP19:13
VDVsxfrom: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N900/19:13
andre__ah, found it in the on-device docu too19:13
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andre__haha, thanks :)19:13
* andre__ bookmarks19:13
lbtJamieBennett: ping me later...19:15
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JamieBennettlbt: trying to upload to youtube as a last resort19:15
VDVsxandre__, seems a bug to me, if that 'device' only needs obex stuff19:15
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andre__VDVsx, i'm unsure. the webpage for that device does not list the N90019:16
andre__as supported19:16
VDVsxeheh: "send handwritten MMS messages to a compatible phone or email address"19:17
Shapeshiftermhh, invisible shield is now available.19:17
VDVsxlol19:17
Shapeshifterhttp://www.zagg.com/invisibleshield/nokia-n900-cases-screen-protectors-covers-skins-shields.php19:17
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Shapeshifterfor those who care.19:17
qwerty12andre__: But if it supports the N800...19:17
lardmanandre__: what is the device?19:17
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lardmanoh bug?19:18
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VDVsxlardman, http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/home-and-office/wireless-digital-pens/su-1b19:18
VDVsxweird stuff to me :P19:18
lardmanhmm, cool, send me one and I'll debug ;)19:18
andre__qwerty12, but not the N810 (according to that list)19:19
andre__lardman, kind of a pen to write, and it sends the data per bluetooth i think19:19
lardmanyeah, looks sort of cool19:19
XisdibikGood morning Maemoers19:19
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VDVsxandre__, if it sends a image, why it needs 3 different BT profiles, lol19:20
VDVsxactually 419:21
andre__VDVsx, big *shrug* :-D19:21
lardmanhmm, DUN, interesting19:21
* andre__ going through his bugmail backlog19:22
FlandryStill stuck with one vote for testing :/19:23
dmj7262has anyone tried the mobile vimeo site on n900?19:24
wirelessdreamerdmj7262: n900 choked on hulu when I tried it at the meetup19:24
VDVsxFlandry, app ?19:25
lardmanargh, why can't I get the browser to open an URL on my N810?!19:25
Flandryuqm19:25
dmj7262nevermind...the mobile site has limited selection apparently19:25
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abstract3dHELLO MAEMO! :p19:26
lardmanqwerty12: can you remember which code you pointed me at long ago?19:26
qwerty12lardman: searching for "tablet-browser-interface.h" perhaps19:27
lardmanok will try that in a tick19:27
lardmanthanks btw19:27
GeneralAntillesFlandry, does it pause in the background?19:28
Flandryyes19:28
Flandryi added that19:28
Flandryit throttles down all threads and pauses game when it loses focus19:28
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GeneralAntillesAnyone else who's tested can vote here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/19:30
lardmanrubbish, I needed a com.lardman. in front of my mbarcode19:30
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lardmanso the browser is open at least, but not at the right url19:30
* RST38h moos thoughtfully19:30
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qwerty12lardman: It assumes "com.nokia." otherwise, which doesn't work if your service file doesn't have the same...19:31
lardmanah I see19:31
GeneralAntillesYeesh, it's like voting by mail.19:31
lardmanmakes some sense now19:31
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derfWhat's wrong with voting by mail?19:31
RST38hHELO, qwerty, lardman, derf, General19:31
derfRST38h: HI THERE.19:31
lardmanhi RST38h19:31
Flandryyes, thanks GeneralAntilles19:32
qwerty12Hiya, RST38h19:32
GeneralAntillesderf, I don't have unlimited free time? ;)19:32
VDVsxderf, hey, thanks for the help in the other day, with the dbus stuff :)19:32
derfVDVsx: Yer welcome. Did you finally get it working?19:33
VDVsxderf, yes, actually there's a file with the default session saved:)19:34
VDVsx/tmp/session_bus_address.user ^19:34
qwerty12VDVsx: Is it too late to mention that prefixing sudo with "run-standalone.sh" will also work?19:34
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: you're suggesting boxwave. Have you ever compared it to an invisible shield? And, it the boxwave as scratch resitant as the IS?19:34
VDVsxqwerty12, in the device ? lol19:35
qwerty12VDVsx: Yep :)19:35
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derfHah, apparently so.19:35
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, friend of mine had one, they're OK, but a pain in the ass to apply and I can't say I care for the texture.19:36
VDVsxqwerty12, lol , oh my19:36
zaheermVDVsx, builder still looks stuck19:36
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VDVsxqwerty12, now I already have code to grab the session, will try in the next version :P19:37
hrwhave a nice weekend guys19:37
qwerty12Hehe19:37
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VDVsxzaheerm, it's slow19:37
qwerty12You too, hrw19:37
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lardmanbye hrw|gone, you too19:38
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Shapeshifterhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHde1oYCbXg&feature=related wtf I'll not lend my phone to this guy19:38
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VDVsxzaheerm, my package submitted last night was built a while ago, so it's working :P19:39
Shapeshifterwhat a moron.19:39
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, you've a MAC right ?19:40
GeneralAntillesMedia Access Control?19:40
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VDVsxyes19:41
VDVsxlol19:41
VDVsxno a Mac19:41
VDVsx:P19:41
GeneralAntillesYes.19:41
lardmanballs, why is my callback data now empty19:41
lardmanrubbish19:41
* lardman goes to the pub19:41
lardmancu all later19:41
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, can you test something from me, it's easy and only take a while19:42
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, what?19:42
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qwerty12VDVsx: "only take a while" is not a good way of convincing someone to do something :p19:42
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, bluemaemo 3.8 (-testing), you've to remove any previous pairing between the n900 and the Mac19:43
VDVsxqwerty12, I know my English sucks :P19:43
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* GeneralAntilles will bring a phrasebook from the US for VDVsx. :P19:44
qwerty12VDVsx: Gah, it's fine; I was just taking the piss :p19:44
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, thanks ;)19:44
VDVsxlol19:44
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rrr__eek!19:45
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, the package is in -devel, my bad19:46
rrr__im missing the hildonmm header19:46
GeneralAntillesIt just keeps getting more complicated. . . .19:46
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, be prepared because the UI is unfinished19:46
VDVsx:P19:47
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: quit yo jibba jabba, fool: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/bluemaemo.install19:47
VDVsxoh that's new for me o_019:48
GeneralAntillesThe Release file is screwed up again.19:48
Shapeshiftermh. I think I'll buy accidental insurance for my n900 anyway. If I scratch it too hard, I could just wash it or something, and get a replacement for 30 bucks.19:48
qwerty12Ouch19:48
ShapeshifterI wonder though if I'd actually do that.19:48
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, nothing to scratch but the screen, just get a protector. ;)19:48
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ah and I changed the section as you suggested :)19:49
* VDVsx needs to close some bugs19:49
GeneralAntilleslol19:49
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, well, I'll test it as soon as -devel comes back.19:50
VDVsxagain :(19:51
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aSIMULAtorgood evening19:53
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, is just to see if the connection stuff is working properly with Mac :)19:53
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VDVsxaSIMULAtor, hey19:53
VDVsx:)19:53
aSIMULAtorhello my portugese distant relative19:53
aSIMULAtor:P19:53
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Shapeshifterlol people on the forums..... "will chrome OS run on the n900?"19:54
Pavlovlol19:54
Shapeshifterwhat kind of question is that, and why would people care >.>19:54
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, same reason they want Android.19:54
adeus"yes if you make it to run on it"19:54
GeneralAntillesThey're silly people.19:54
adeus"here is the source, make the necessary adjustments"19:55
VDVsxaSIMULAtor, lol19:55
|Rwell, the more OS choice, the better the platform?19:55
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: well android at least is a bit more then a crap linux distro.19:55
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VDVsxadeus ++19:55
JamieBennettsorted, Zeeshan's talk is processing at http://www.blip.tv/file/2875261/19:55
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* JamieBennett goes back to the discussions19:55
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GeneralAntillesDamn incomprehensible Nokia travel agent emails.19:57
GeneralAntillesWhere's that damn decoder ring. . . .19:57
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, I'm receiving a lot of spam from them, about strikes all over Spain, lol19:58
VDVsxand also got one warning about ETA , hihih19:58
GeneralAntillesHooray for 9 hour flights.19:58
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, too short :p19:59
GeneralAntillesSecond leg is 3 hours.19:59
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: at least you don't have to wait for passport this time19:59
Stskeeps:P19:59
GeneralAntillesIndeed19:59
VDVsxmy return trip from SF was 20+ :)20:01
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VDVsxouch they used a steady cam that only filmed half of the projection (@ summit videos) :(20:02
GeneralAntillesSteady cam or tripod?20:03
Stskeepsthe sound is like that on all recordings?20:03
Stskeepscould be worse..20:03
Stskeeps:P20:03
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, something like that, dunno20:04
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, where you connection ? London ?20:04
VDVsx*your20:04
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, assuming it's not one of these. :P http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/product_images/altimage/22%2009%202006steadicam_flyer_1.jpg20:04
GeneralAntillesJFK20:04
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, no the second leg20:05
GeneralAntillesTampa to JFK to Barcelona20:06
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andre__summit videos? in public? where?20:10
GeneralAntilleshttp://jamiebennett.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc20:11
GeneralAntillesThe Bug Jar lightning talk is good.20:11
qwerty12"nsfw=dc"?20:11
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andre__uh20:12
andre__shweet20:12
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, lots and lots of porn. Click the link.20:12
qwerty12"Elisator for cow's health analisys - Manrique Lopez" - now this sounds sexy20:12
qwerty12Cow? Check. Anal? Check20:12
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Xisdibikporn? where?20:14
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Xisdibikqwerty12: your missing out on the sheep20:14
* qwerty12 blames libhildonfm for fucking with his mind20:15
qwerty12Heh20:15
sgbirchI just called Vodafone to see if I can get a tether plan so I dont have the 500M limit they put on theunlimit plan20:15
sgbirchno20:15
sgbirchis there a better cell corp for data20:15
XisdibikO2?20:16
* Xisdibik has no idea, just said it cuzit was in his head20:16
sgbirchok20:16
sgbirchXisdibik: lol20:16
sgbirchI have been happy with vodafone .. but they dont seem to like data20:16
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SpeedEvilsgbirch: where are you?20:18
SpeedEvilsgbirch: uk?20:18
sgbirchuk20:18
SpeedEvilsgbirch: You on contract ATM?20:18
sgbirchbut I work in the US . .. so I need a solution for both corps20:18
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SpeedEvilah20:19
sgbirchcontrect expired in both contries20:19
sgbirchvodafone in uk and T-Mobile is usa20:19
hexa_hi there small question . could someone point me to some doc about sending/receiving sms on maemo 5 ... can't find it in the dev guide it seems ?20:19
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SpeedEvilsgbirch: Do you do normal calls - or just data?20:21
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sgbirchnormal + data20:21
andre__hexa_, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33597 ?20:21
hexa_andre__, thx! :)20:21
andre__hexa_, well... just a starting point. don't think it'll cover all you need :-/20:21
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hexa_andre__, np that's what I needed20:22
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wjthexa_: i think there's convenience API on the messaging UI to do this20:23
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SpeedEvilsgbirch: how many months are you int he UK?20:24
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sgbirch620:25
hexa_wjt, humm k I guess I'll have some code reading to do hehe20:25
sgbirchoh .. UK .. 320:25
wjthexa_: hmm, doesn't look like there is20:25
sgbirchSpeedEvil: 320:25
hexa_wjt, hehe k np.. It should not be that bad if I can with telepathy20:26
SpeedEvilsgbirch: I would be looking at tesco IIRC they offer good value for pay-as-you-go - when you want months of service at a time.20:26
SpeedEvilsgbirch: they offer a 'triple your top-up' - which would work well20:26
sgbirchcool20:26
Milo-andre__ oh my gosh, why did you link to a topic that is so horribly written? capitalizing each word's first letter is just as unbearable as all caps.20:26
sgbirchwho is the provider though, tesco doesnt have a network20:26
SpeedEvilsgbirch: I suspect generally that a contract is not going to work well for you. Dunno.20:26
RST38hMilo: And Why Is That?20:26
andre__Milo-, I think that two people (and me) told that guy already :)20:27
SpeedEvilsgbirch: the provider may not sell that tarrif directly.20:27
andre__B0rked Auto-Kapitalization Maybe? Shrug. :-P20:27
wjthexa_: the short version is… find the ring account, get a text channel to the number, send your message, close it up20:27
Milo-just bloody annoying20:27
hexa_wjt, seems simple enought :)20:27
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sgbirchSpeedEvil: I have used contract with both corps but hate them. Want to move to payg20:29
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sgbirchSpeedEvil: My kids are on that, it seems much better and cheaper20:30
sgbirchSpeedEvil: also seems cheaper to buy a phone20:30
sgbirchSpeedEvil: once you compute complete cost20:30
RST38h"As revealed by Crunchgear, Jobs recently sent an 11-word email to an longtime Mac developer who had come groveling to the cult leader after being threatened by a band of Apple lawyers."20:31
SpeedEvilsgbirch: perhaps.20:31
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Milo-can you compile your source code _using_ your n900?20:31
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RST38h(this is treated as the Second Coming in the news, of course)20:31
SpeedEvilsgbirch: If you're in the UK all the time, tehre are possibly better ways20:31
SpeedEvilMilo-: yes20:31
Milo-or do you have to develop and compile all code in the SDK?20:31
qwerty12lcukn900: Can you compile your source code _using_ your n900?20:31
SpeedEvilMilo-: I don't know if there is a pre-prepared package to do that though.20:31
lcukn900oooer xchat in extras-dev doesnt like changing the font20:31
andre__still xchat quite rocks for the n900, compared to the n810 version :-P20:32
qwerty12lcukn900: It's buggy as fuck, better off downgrading at the moment20:32
Milo-SpeedEvil okay, because the SDK isn't compatible with amd64 as far as I know :/20:32
GeneralAntillesEverybody blame qwerty12!20:33
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JohnHoeWho?20:33
andre__tss.20:33
lcukn900lol qwerty20:34
lcukn900no not best off downgrading20:34
* Shapeshifter just ordered a bl-5j battery from ebay.20:34
lcukn900is the bugtracker up and running20:34
Milo-kind of annoying if I have to create a 32bit environment just to build my code :(20:34
Shapeshifterfor 4.60$ I wonder if it is _any_ good at all.20:34
lcukn900not just to pressure you, but so folks can help20:34
GeneralAntillesGood for blowing up your N900.20:35
JohnHoeShapeshifter: A very lightweight paper weight?20:35
lcukn900milo im annoyed about 64bit atm lol20:35
lcukn900wanna swap20:35
lcukn900i need big fonts20:35
Milo-64bit is no problem ._·20:35
RST38hShapeshifter: It will make a good firecracker20:35
lcukn900if i edit the config manually does it change20:35
Milo-32bit is a problem :(20:35
JohnHoelcukn900: Yessir20:36
Milo-I left those days ages ago20:36
lcukn90064bit is not comfortable with scratchbox20:36
lcukn900or rather makes everything moar tricky20:36
ShapeshifterWell, actually, I've read nowhere that cheap batteries really are any risk to anything. I strongly suspect it willget duff mutch quicker, but for 5 bucks...20:36
Milo-lcukn900 well that's what I understood20:36
Shapeshifteras a backup...20:36
Milo-I couldn't get the SDK to work on 64bit20:37
lcukn900wheres the file and can sed change kt20:37
lcukn900ive got no editor on device20:37
adeusI used it for a while20:37
lcukn900milo whats needing you in 32bit then20:37
adeussome manual labor required but it's possible20:37
Milo-huh?20:38
Milo-could you re-elaborate?20:38
Milo-my inner interpreter failed20:38
Shapeshifterand sometimes the cheap aftermarket batteries are actually the same20:39
Shapeshiftersame OEM supplier as the original.20:39
ali1234Shapeshifter: $5 is about what batteries actually cost. it will be posted to you from china of course, even if the seller is local to you.20:39
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Shapeshifterali1234: yeah, hong kong.20:39
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SargunDon't they put the gas gauge in the battery these days?20:42
Shapeshifterali1234: well, it's actually 1 cent at the moment, the rest 4.59$ is shipping.20:42
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Shapeshifterapple fans can be quite a bother20:51
Shapeshifterthey're bots, mostly.20:51
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PaulFertserSargun: do you mean coloumb counter like in gta02?20:52
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SargunPaulFertser, yeah.20:53
PaulFertserSargun: it looks like nokia hardware engineers are just imaginary ghosts, i've never seen one on irc. So there's nobody to answer your question ;)20:53
PaulFertserSargun: you should have stayed with your gta02 ;)20:53
Sargunhahaha20:53
SargunPaulFertser, Our GTA02s have an uptime of a year20:54
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PaulFertserSargun: impressing. Can you probably post some kind of a "success story" to the community ML to cheer up the crowd a bit?20:55
SargunYeah, then we abandoned them because their modems were fried20:55
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PaulFertserSargun: that's even more interesting and important20:56
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PaulFertserSargun: care to elaborate? Probably it's too OT here, i invite you somewhere else.20:56
SargunPaulFertser, Yes, maybe one of these days I'll draft an email20:56
Sargun#openmoko-cdevel ?20:56
mikedep333hey all, I'm a US customer of AT&T and I am thinking of buying the unlocked N90020:56
mikedep333I cannot get a data plan however20:56
mikedep333does anyone know if the N900 is usable with wi-fi only?20:57
Pavlovit is20:57
mikedep333Pavlov, any more details?20:57
qwerty12_N810mikedep333: Mine is SIM-less ATM20:57
PaulFertserSargun: yep, whereever you want, probably #openmoko20:57
kalikianamikedep333, you can even use it without any mobile network20:57
qwerty12_N810mikedep333: I can still go online and everything20:57
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qwerty12_N810(Using Wi-Fi)20:57
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mikedep333I had to mess around with my Nokia 5800 XM to make it do mail for exchange only with wi-fi, not with mobile data20:58
mikedep333ok, thanks20:58
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mikedep333amazon just lowered the price to $480 USD after rebate20:58
mikedep333I can't find an another unlocked cortex A8 phone for anywhere near the price20:58
kalikianathe mobile network also has a different icon when it asks for a connection if you use a sim for phone only20:59
kalikianaie. you can easily see it20:59
mikedep333gotcha20:59
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mikedep333amazon doesn't list when they'll ship it. It's shipping December 1st or so in the US, right?21:01
ali1234how do i get the GLES 1.1 on to the n900? (i mean libGLES_CM.so)21:01
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ali1234libgles1-sgx-img: Depends: opengles-sgx-img-common (= 0.20090218.55.9+0m5) but 0.20090218.55.1+0m5 is to be installed21:03
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ali1234heh, that's blocking me from installing ioquake3 too21:06
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yergaali1234, what firmware version do you have?21:07
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ali1234not updated yet21:07
yergaali1234, then you should update21:07
ali1234i wanted to test ogre3d before updating21:07
ali1234because then if i ruin it, well, i'm going to update anyway21:07
yergaali1234, it worked fine here with 42-1121:08
ali1234yeah21:08
ali1234it doesn't inspire much confidence anyway21:08
mikedep333anyone? the N900's US release date?21:08
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ali1234i mean are the repos basically going to break every tme there's a firmware update?21:09
mikedep333never mind, found it21:09
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ali1234and what's the point of using apt anyway if you're going to make monolithic firmware images?21:10
* Jaffa wonders how much of Children in Need he'll have to watch to see Doctor Who snippet21:13
andre__there's also 3rd party software out there21:13
andre__ali1234: as it's monolithic images switching to some proprietary stuff instead of apt makes sense? ;-)21:14
ali1234so apt is just for 3rd party developers, who are continuously at the whim of nokia to not screw it up by a firmware update?21:14
PaulFertserali1234: and what is the point in assuming nokia wants to use a sane strategy for updates? Once i was told that nokia doesn't target any users that can compile kernels (or know how to use apt-get/apt-cache). It looks very true given the strange hybrid update system they used for Nxx0.21:14
Jaffaali1234: Most updates are shipped via apt, but during pre-production it's easier to ship whole images21:14
ali1234because that's how it feels21:15
andre__later on-the-fly updates do use apt.21:15
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andre__however reflashing with a new image will use less memory IIRC21:15
woglindejo21:15
Jaffaali1234: "continuously at the whim" suggests Nokia are either malicious or secretive. When they know that 3rd party devs make the platform.21:16
PaulFertserandre__: what about the "Seamless Software Update"? Is it a sane way to update an apt-based distro in your opinion?21:17
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woglindethats a funny dns21:17
woglindehost81-155-227-189.range81-155.btcentralplus.com21:17
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Shapeshifterhave any of you tried running synergy on the n900?21:18
ali1234Shapeshifter: yes i have, it didn't work because of missing x libs21:18
Shapeshifterali1234: mhh. okay.21:18
andre__PaulFertser: I simply don't have enough technical knowledge to comment whether it's good or bad. From a user point I think it is quite flawless normally (not: always) and hence nice21:18
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GAN900mikedep333, why no data?21:19
GAN900It's only $15/mo with a voice plan.21:19
ali1234Jaffa: it suggests nothing except the repos are currently broken for anyone who is not running the latest and greatest firmware, and there's no guarantee this won't happen again, perhaps 12 months after release, when the device is in the hands of people who don't know what a firmware update even is.21:19
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GAN900ali1234, you're running pre-release software.21:20
GAN900Get over it.21:20
GAN900Software update notifications appear automatically.21:20
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PaulFertserandre__: have you ever used Debian or any other distro? Do they use any strange dirty tricks like that to update the system?21:20
ali1234it is a small step from "you're running pre-release software, get over it" to "you're running out of date software, get over it" to "your users are running out of date software, get over it"21:20
GAN900All the user has to do is tap a couple of buttons.21:20
ali1234actually, software update notifications don't appear automatically for system libraries, which is exactly what is broken in this case21:21
* GAN900 sighs.21:21
andre__installing ioquake also did not work with 47-18 yesterday because of the opengl dep issue21:21
ali1234neither do they appear for firmware images21:21
GAN900System libs will never be updated without an SSU update beong released.21:21
ali1234unless they're 3rd party21:21
andre__ali1234, how comes you now that they don't appear?21:21
andre__s/now/know21:21
qwerty12_N810andre__: Serves you right :-P21:21
GAN900and, really, this is and ioq3 packaging issue.21:21
PaulFertserGAN900: what is SSU anyway? Why doesn't it come with the usual apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade?21:22
andre__qwerty12_N810: hey, i just wanted to play an egoshooter while my g/f was sleeping next to me. quite normal, eh? :-P21:22
GAN900It's a metapackage that updates the system software.21:22
ali1234andre__: because i set up my own repo, uploaded a system lib to it (which was not marked with an extras/* section as per the guidelines) and then uploaded an updated version, and i was not notified of the update on the device21:22
GAN900For a variety of largely legacy reasons.21:22
ali1234the only way i could install it was to do it manually with apt-get21:23
andre__qwerty12_N810, argh. "first person shooter" i mean. i think only the stupid germans call it "egoshooter"...21:23
qwerty12_N810andre__: No, it's totally wrong. To redeem yourself, share the images :p21:23
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qwerty12_N810:)21:23
GAN900ali1234, that's a good way to break things for your users.21:23
RST38hegoshooter sounds better21:23
ali1234GAN900: yes it is, isnt it?21:23
annoiaWhich repository do I need to get libpython?21:23
andre__qwerty12_N810, i only took one and there's no nudity, so probably not too interesting for you ;-)21:23
RST38hbtw there is a homebrewn 3d gmame called Egoboo =)21:23
PaulFertserGAN900: i thought that all major distros managed to update without using weird unexpected ways, didn't they?21:23
annoiaIt doesn't seem to be in any of the ones I have available21:23
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* GAN900 can see he's not going to get anywhere in these silly discussions.21:24
qwerty12_N810andre__: ROFL! I actually meant firmware images, but sure... :D21:24
andre__ali1234: I don't think that overwriting system packages from some weird 3rd party repo should be ever supported by SSU ;-)21:24
andre__qwerty12_N810, sure you did, sure. We all believe you... ;-)21:24
ali1234andre__: why would i want to overwrite system packages21:24
andre__you just stated that.21:24
andre__don't know.21:24
ali1234as usual, you are not listening to what people are actually saying21:24
ali1234consider the case where i package some library which is NOT a system library21:25
GeneralAntillesali1234, hypocrite.21:25
ali1234some random library, libfoo21:25
andre__ali1234: ah, "as usual". thanks for knowing me so well, dear unknown stranger ;-)21:25
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ali1234then, somebody else make a package which uses it21:25
PaulFertserGAN900: it's not a discussion. I honestly do not understand. And i assume many other users too. maemo.wiki.org doesn't tell the reasons unfortunately. What should i google to finally get it?21:25
andre__ali1234, "<ali1234> andre__: because i set up my own repo, uploaded a system lib to it" and so on.21:25
GeneralAntillesPaulFertser, mobile devices are not PCs.21:25
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ali1234andre__: i consider a system lib to be any package which begins "lib..."21:26
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PaulFertserGeneralAntilles: neither are netbooks21:26
ali1234andre__: and NOT necessarily something provided already in the base firmware21:26
JaffaPaulFertser: SSU is, basically, apt-get update && dist-upgrade; but the reason it has extra stuff around it is exactly the same reason Ubuntu has an update-manager21:26
GeneralAntillesThey're a helluva lot closer than a 770.21:26
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andre__ali1234: apart from me not listening, any other personal problems with me, or quotes/URLs so I can try to improve my listening skills? (not kidding here, really interested)21:26
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hardakernokia support SUCKS21:27
ali1234so anyway, if i find a security bug in my package, libfoo, and release an updated version, no users will ever be notified of it's existence21:27
hardaker(and they lie)21:27
hardakerwhen they said "they're shipping" the other day and you call they say "oh yeah, we're just waiting for fedex to pick them up"21:27
PaulFertserJaffa: ubuntu is not a good example, i'm afraid. When i saw "fail-safe X server" (that is designed specifically to make xorg.conf editing harder) i lost all my hope in that distro.21:28
hardakerand keep saying that for days...  somehow, I don't think it's fedex21:28
andre__hardaker, uhm... which country?21:28
hardakerus21:28
andre__bad :-/21:28
JaffaPaulFertser: I'm talking technical reasons21:28
annoiaI'm trying to install the ssh client/server, but I'm missing openssh-client and openssh-server... Where to I get these (and why aren't they in the same repository?!!)21:29
ali1234so, as it stands, the existing package management system makes it impossible for 3rd party developers to fix security bugs (or any other kind of bugs) in libraries21:29
Jaffaali1234: There've been a number of discussion as to how to solve that, and there *is* a workaround. Feel free to participate on maemo-developers and patches to HAM always welcome.21:29
ali1234and if you think that is a good idea then there's really no hope for you21:29
PaulFertserGeneralAntilles: i can't understand how an update stratagy for a mobile device differs from a PC OS, sorry. I admit i'm somewhat dumb. But probably other users are not very smart as well so it deserves some explanation imho.21:29
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ali1234last time i raised this issue the workaround was to force a dependency on the package(s) which use it21:29
Jaffaali1234: "Impossible" is wrong; because there's a trivial (and sub-optimal) workaround of releasing a new version of one piece of software which relies on it with a >= dependency.21:29
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ali1234in order for the user to be guaranteed to get the fixed lib, you have to fix *every* package which uses it21:30
ali1234which could be several hundred megabytes of packages21:30
GeneralAntillesannoia, http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/o/openssh/21:30
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras.21:30
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PaulFertserJaffa: i'm not a ubuntu user so i lack knowledge about its "update manager" but judging by the general ideas of that distro i assume it's quite possibly either solves a non-existant problem or tries to solve a real problem in an utterly wrong way.21:30
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Jaffaali1234: As I said, it's sub-optimal and solutions are welcome21:31
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annoiaGeneralAntilles - That's pretty weird, as I have extras in my catalogues21:31
ali1234the solution is really simple. the solution is not to have a solution. just show all updates whether they have a section or not.21:31
Jaffaali1234: Not very user friendly for the mass-market.21:32
javispedroso that the user gets an update availables dialog for "libillumination"?21:32
ali1234yes21:32
javispedro(sorry for putting that concrete example)21:32
GeneralAntillesannoia, Fremantle or Diablo?21:32
ali1234or better the user gets "updates available, do you want to install? (y/n)"21:32
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Fremantle21:32
GeneralAntillesannoia, what does apt-get update show?21:32
GeneralAntillesapt-get install openssh-server (or -client) shows not found, I presume?21:33
Jaffaali1234: err, that *is* the notifications dialogue for updates. But, as you say, it only deals with user-facing packages.21:33
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Actually apt-cache search ssh shows the openssh-client and server...21:33
ali1234exactly, and that's the problem21:33
Jaffaali1234: Yes, and your solution isn't compatible with the requirements. So a different solution is needed.21:33
GeneralAntillesAh, apt-get install openssh ?21:33
ali1234in that case the requirements are broken21:34
JaffaSoftware Design 101: if the solution doesn't meet the requirements, it's not a solution.21:34
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GeneralAntillesali1234, that users not be exposed to pages and pages of meaningless gibberish?21:34
Jaffas/meaningless/$& (to them) /21:34
ali1234GeneralAntilles: the solution to that is not to show the user what is being installed unless they specifically ask to see it21:34
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GeneralAntillesHey, that's the solution we have now!21:35
JaffaGeneralAntilles: No, he means not telling the user what's going to be updated at all21:35
ali1234no, the solution we have now is not to update any packages which the user wont "understand"21:35
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annoiaGeneralAntilles - Could it be that because installing the package removes a different package, the Nokia tool refuses?21:35
JaffaJust that there are updates and it'll take 34.2MB to download21:35
GeneralAntillesannoia, installing openssh shouldn't remove anything.21:35
GeneralAntillesannoia, can you pastebin the apt log?21:35
annoiaGeneralAntilles - It removes ssh and mp-fremantle-generic-tr21:36
GeneralAntillesali1234, problem with that is that users often install repositories which will make their systems unbootable if a dist-upgrade is applied.21:36
ali1234the problem is "the user doesn't understand about updates for libraries" and the solution we currently have is "lets just not update those libraries" when the correct solution is "lets just update the libraries without telling the user specifically what was updated"21:36
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Not sure what you're looking for, but I'm fairly well versed in Linux :)21:36
GeneralAntillesannoia, this is on the device? 42-11?21:37
* Jaffa suggests that people who are new to the platform don't panic without seeing things in practice; offer constructive solutions in the right place; and don't rant and insult people who are long standing contributors to the platform21:37
GeneralAntillesJaffa, goodluckwiththat21:37
annoiaGeneralAntilles - This is on a brand new N900. What does 42-11 refer to?21:37
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GeneralAntillesannoia, the software version.21:37
GeneralAntillesannoia, retail?21:37
Jaffaali1234: i.e. an implicit meta-package of "Software libraries (342KB)" appearing in HAM?21:38
ali1234sure, that would work for me21:38
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Nokia development loaner21:38
Jaffaali1234: Sounds like it might be a workable idea, however IRC isn't exactly the best feedback and decision system.21:38
GeneralAntillesannoia, can you go to control panel -> about and see what the version string is?21:38
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PaulFertserJaffa: the problem is that everyone says: hey, maemo is a nice distro, there's apt to manage your packages, just like in your favourite debian. And then it suddenly appears it's not exactly like that.21:39
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Ah, yes, 42-1121:39
GeneralAntillesannoia, hrm, strange.21:39
javispedroPaulFertser: what part of apt is missing?21:39
GeneralAntillesAnd apt-get install openssh-server/client wants to remove things?21:39
ali1234and it turns out this is all irrelevant anyway since the gles thing is not related to firmware versions, it's just a bug in the repo21:39
javispedroand a known one..21:40
GeneralAntilles(annoia, that's the latest release available, by the way. The one they're shipping in retail units.)21:40
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Yes, the packages I said.21:40
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Cool. :D21:40
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woglindehm nokia fires 300 people in reasearch21:41
woglindenice21:41
PaulFertserjavispedro: no apt part is missing. But extra confusing non-apt parts (SSU) are present. And that is just confusing. It's not explained anywhere why this extra mechanism is introduced and how it works. Just very confusing. I think i somewhat can read docs and the code but the page about SSU on the wiki tells about nothing to me. :-/21:41
GeneralAntillesannoia, not sure what either package is related to.21:41
ali1234also the gui update manage does not work like the way people have used other distros will expect for reasons i spent the last 15 minutes ranting about21:41
javispedroPaulFertser: SSU is a meta-package that has strong dependencies on certain versions of system components. like ubuntu-desktop. is that enough?21:41
javispedroali1234: install synaptic21:42
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Dunno. But it doesn't seem too disastrous to remove ;)21:42
ali1234synaptic is not an update notifier21:42
GeneralAntillesannoia, at worst you may have to reflash. ;)21:42
javispedroali1234: well install your favourite update notifier.21:42
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GeneralAntillesannoia, usually the disastrous removals you can spot when it wants to free about 140MB of installed packages. ;021:42
annoiaHehe21:42
PaulFertserjavispedro: well... If it was written on the wiki _and_ it was clearly stated how it interacts with apt (e.g. what if i have my own kernel package that is on hold to avoid auto-updating etc), it'd be enough.21:43
annoiaGeneralAntilles - Ten years of Debian/Ubuntu has taught me to spot those ;)21:43
javispedroPaulFertser: easy. if you have your own kernel you're on your own when updating. dist-upgrade, intuition, and good luck.21:43
ali1234javispedro: i may have to do that. unfortunately there's no guarantee my users will do that21:43
PaulFertserjavispedro: hm. Do you agree that SSU is confusing and scary to any Debian administrator even after he reads http://wiki.maemo.org/Seamless_Software_Update ?21:44
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javispedroali1234: so all you want  is for users to have updated versions of a lib you need? then yes you'll need a newer version of a user/ package every time.21:45
javispedroevery time a newer version of the lib shows up.21:45
javispedroPaulFertser: no, I don't find it scary. The first thing I did was switch to unlocked. If you know how to recompile and flash your own kernel I'll find it disturbing a metapackage bothering you.21:46
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ali1234javispedro: which is bad if i didn't make any user visible package which uses the lib21:49
PaulFertserjavispedro: it's written on the wiki that installing this package will overwrite my kernel. It's not clear if it will do it or not if the kernel is installed as a proper package and is put on hold. So uncertainty combined with unclear intentions is somewhat bothering.21:49
javispedroPaulFertser: "kernel installed as a proper package"? the kernel is not even on a filesystem!21:50
javispedroali1234: and what use is a lib without a user-visible app?21:50
ali1234javispedro: you assume that all packages are made by the same person?21:50
ali1234the whole point of libraries is multiple packages may use them21:50
javispedroali1234: no. I assume people talking.21:51
ali1234well that's not a valid assumption21:51
PaulFertserjavispedro: i think that the proper way would be to install kernels to the filesystem and to provide a tool like update-alternatives to flash the particular kernel you want.21:51
javispedrowell then why we're going to have an ITP mailing list.21:51
ali1234what if the person who makes the user package has disappeared? hit by a bus?21:51
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ali1234at best you have to scramble around for someone else to make an updated package21:52
javispedroali1234: freeze the package forever in memoriam? or take over it? what a hard decision damn it!21:52
ali1234of course if you just allow library updates, you don't need to do either21:52
ali1234because the existing package would continue to work with the new lib21:52
javispedrountil you hit a bug in the user/ app and you have to take over the package either way.21:53
Jaffaali1234: Who does the testing in your "multiple people sharing a J. Random Library" world?21:53
ali1234and of course it's even worse if multiple packages use the lib21:53
JaffaMaemo doesn't have the release process, the entry requirements or the timescales of Debian.21:53
Shapeshifterwhen making a wallpaper for the n900, is one big wide image needed, or 4 small ones?21:55
Jaffaali1234: Anyway, I quite like the "Software libraries" pseudo-package entry to handle lib upgrades that we got to.21:55
ali1234Shapeshifter: 4 small ones21:55
Shapeshifterand, isn't it a bit of a waste of ressources to display a 3200x480 picture all the time?21:55
Shapeshifterali1234: I see, thanks.21:55
Jaffaali1234: Outline it on maemo-developers or (and I hate to say this) maemo.org/brainstorm/21:55
Shapeshifterany preffered format? png?21:55
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Shapeshifterand, can it do SVG?21:55
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javispedropreffered format should be pvr.21:56
javispedroother than that, png.21:56
Shapeshifterjavispedro: okay21:56
javispedrosvg for a fixed resolution is wasteful at best.21:56
Stskeepsjavispedro: got my mail?21:56
javispedroStskeeps: yep, will read soon.21:56
javispedroand thanks.21:57
Stskeepsk21:57
Stskeepsjavispedro: my status of those is a kernel panic but at least it doesn't error out.21:57
Stskeeps:P21:57
javispedroouch.21:57
javispedroso I better grab the charger.21:57
* Stskeeps needs a proper upnp media server21:58
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PaulFertserWhat is also strange is that maemo doesn't seem to be widely accepted. All PDAs were using OPIE or GPE, now it's E's Illume or Xfce, lxdm in favour. If maemo is really good why didn't it attract developers who use other (than nokia's) devices like iPAQs, Zauruses etc?22:00
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javispedroare you saying we come from a nokia/symbian background?22:00
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, 4 small ones (and a .desktop if you can swing it) on PR1.0, you can use one large one in PR1.1 (it'll automatically slice it up)22:01
javispedronow you have challenged the honor of my family!22:01
javispedro;)22:01
GeneralAntillesPaulFertser, because Maemo isn't designed to run on different hardware22:01
JaffaPaulFertser: There are lots of ex-devs from those platforms.22:01
GeneralAntillesand most of those devices don't have the resources to run Maemo well22:01
GeneralAntilleseither way, please see Mer.22:01
GeneralAntilles~mer22:01
StskeepsPaulFertser: because E/Illume is where mobile distributions go to die22:01
GeneralAntillesinfobot!22:02
infobotsomebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer22:02
javispedroinfobot: ping22:02
infobot~pong22:02
StskeepsPaulFertser: besides that, even intel tried to tame Maemo/Hildon and they failed at it22:02
PaulFertserGeneralAntilles: linux wasn't designed to run on anything except i386 too.22:03
Milo-PaulFertser yet it's 2^63-1 times better as 64bit platform than windwos22:04
Milo-windows, even.22:04
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JaffaPaulFertser: And so look at Mer to see where Maemo can go.22:05
javispedromergotchi!22:05
PaulFertserJaffa: i know. But many attempts to actually use Mer on other devices come nowhere for whatever reason...22:05
StskeepsFR doesn't count22:05
Stskeeps:P22:05
PaulFertserStskeeps: what does?22:05
GeneralAntillesSomething that has real hardware.22:06
StskeepsFR was a special case cos we had to deal with armv4t and our stuff wasn't compatible with debian stable :P22:06
JaffaPaulFertser: Where was Linux in terms of platforms and devices a couple of years into its dev?22:06
PaulFertserIt's also horrifying to see nokia use maemo again instead of mer.22:06
Stskeeps(OBS only takes in stable versions)22:06
JaffaPaulFertser: Then you don't understand Maemo, Nokia, mobile devices, consumer electronics *or* Mer.22:06
PaulFertserJaffa: or life22:07
StskeepsPaulFertser: nah, mer is too immature for that big scale. we happened a little before fremantle first prealpha22:07
JaffaPaulFertser: I've no idea about your life. But when the project leader for Mer doesn't agree, and has now been employed by Nokia to work on it; perhaps you should listen more than lecture? ;-)22:07
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* RST38h sighs: not the absolute open source argument again22:07
StskeepsJaffa: for good measure, paid by nokia, not employee. self-employed in own company22:08
Stskeeps:P22:08
* lardman|afk pokes his head in on the way to another glass of wine and agrees :)22:08
JaffaStskeeps: Indeed. Even better.22:08
PaulFertserRST38h: nope, you mistreat technology advantages for religios ones.22:08
javispedroRST38h: yes! BOTH the morning and the afternoon "not enough free" discussion!22:08
RST38hMe? Religious advantages?22:08
javispedroand the evening, fwiw!22:08
PaulFertserRST38h: you see where maemo went: nowhere. It remained a semi-open platform for nokia devices only. Not gaining community acceptance.22:08
* RST38h hails the Tentacled One, who has definitely claimed another victim just now22:08
* Jaffa boggles at so much energy being poured into slamming Nokia for imagined or hypothetical problems, whilst totally ignoring the easily documentable current problems which are still ongoing.22:09
PaulFertserRST38h: to me it looks like a strong argument against "the way" nokia chooses.22:09
StskeepsPaulFertser: i still believe what people -really- want is Maemo, though.22:09
Stskeepsquality mobile platform22:09
PaulFertserStskeeps: if by people you mean "lusers" then probably yes.22:09
lardman|afkmost people are lusers really22:09
JaffaPaulFertser: Past tense? When Nokia are launching the most mainstream-focused Maemo device, which has had more commercial interest than any of the prior devices? I think you're smoking something.22:09
* Stskeeps twitches22:09
* RST38h does not see why Maemo should "go" somewhere else22:09
PaulFertserStskeeps: if by people you mean fellow developers, then probably you're wrong.22:09
RST38hIt is a Linux distribution made by Nokia to power Nokia mobile devices22:10
Shapeshiftermakin a wallpaper I realize just how huge the resolution of that device really is >.>22:10
Milo-where is the download link for the latest maemo-sdk? O_o All I see is the 'release notes' :/22:10
javispedroPaulFertser: I don't know if you think that Maemo wants to replace Debian... it does not.22:10
PaulFertserJaffa: (smoking something) i wish i did, probably i wouldn't have bothered you with "useless" questions then.22:10
RST38hBTW, creating your own Linux distribution is no rocket science, you can always make your own and port it wherever you like22:10
JaffaPaulFertser: You aren't asking questions; you're making statements.22:10
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PaulFertserJaffa: yep, that's my stupid way of asking questions, sorry for that, i'm too used to this habit :(22:11
JaffaMilo-: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK#Installing_SDK22:11
lardmanwell tbh I'd prefer something that just works to hack on, doing e.g. DSP hacking. I want everything else to just work in a luser-like sense22:11
RST38hPaulFertser: Now, if you are willing and able to make a Linux distro that will match Maemo functionality on a bunch of other mobile devices (let us say HTC ones) and give it away for free, I am all for it22:11
RST38hPaulFertser: Start hacking.22:11
PaulFertserRST38h: SHR is about to provide that.22:12
* Stskeeps twitches again22:12
lardman~SHR22:12
infobotmethinks shr is The Stable Hybrid Release (SHR), intended to be a community driven distribution composed of the FSO and some basic applications, that can be configured to use several different graphical toolkits, for example GTK or EFL. SHR is based on the FSO build. At first, SHR was introduced in order to use the Openmoko2007.2 GTK software in combination with the new FSO, but things have changed.22:12
RST38hPaulFertser: If you are just making grand statements about how software is supposed to be free, I suggest you stuff it for now.22:12
Milo-Jaffa how come there isn't link to that in the Maemo5-sdk's 'downloads' page?22:12
PaulFertserRST38h: but maemo is not. Maemo is semi-open platform to run on nokia devices only.22:12
Milo-I would assume that it would be the most logical place for it ._·22:12
RST38hPaul: Fine with me.22:13
JaffaMilo-: I found that from http://maemo.org/development/ - Forum Nokia confuses me; hopefully because I'm just not used to it.22:13
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* RST38h feels comfortable using semi-open platform on Nokia devices22:13
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RST38hAre there any problems with that?22:13
JaffaRST38h: +122:13
Milo-https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=528 I expected it to be _here_22:13
lardmanhmm, /me remembers why he was cursing the browser opening code22:13
* lbt_ would would be happier if he could get any contacts onto his flippin phone...22:14
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JaffaAnd when Nokia help transition bits of it to provide a fully open platform for use on Nokia (and non-Nokia) devices in the form of Mer; I wonder how anyone can complain about the freedom much.22:14
javispedroPaulFertser: oh no, not "it's not truly open" again. Do yo thing we don't know that? It's been repeated for the 52405234th time!22:14
JaffaMilo-: I've never seen that before in my life! :-/22:14
PaulFertserRST38h: lack of portability, also improper priorities. If some hackers want to use it on other devices, nokia won't probably accept the patches because they'd be conflicting with either their "business stratagy" or their "great future plans".22:14
* RST38h would actually like ot know how he can mass-edit contacts in Fremantle. Is there a file?22:14
javispedros/thing/think22:14
RST38hPaulFertser: Who are these "some hackers" and why should I care?22:15
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RST38hPaulFerster: You are some hacker => you care.22:15
qwerty12_N810/topic Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open - http://tinyurl.com/ydv6p62 | FIRMWARE IS HERE AT LAST! http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | No, Maemo is no fully open. No, we could not give a shit; GTFO.22:15
JaffaPaulFertser: Well, there haven't been a large number of patches to Maemo; but mine to Hildon Application Manager were accepted; as were qwerty12's22:15
javispedroRST38h: there's an API. the file is either a berkeley db or whatever evolution uses these days.22:15
StskeepsPaulFertser: why bother putting a lot of stuff out publically on gitorious if they don't want patches?22:15
lbtoi, Jaffa: leave the trolls alone and make fremantle contacts more open22:15
Milo-"Using SDK on X86_64 is not supported" :(22:15
RST38hjavispedro: Any way to export it, then import back?22:15
derfRST38h: This channel sounds more and more like tmo every day.22:15
javispedroMilo-, SDK works on amd64 fine.22:15
RST38hderf: Well, they filter in22:15
derfI had hoped it was safe. I've never read tmo for a reason.22:16
qwerty12_N810Jaffa: Hell, the category view in Maemo 5's HAM wouldn't be the same w/out your work22:16
PaulFertserlbt: i'm not trolling per se, just trying to understand more about the life by the way of arguing (which is assumed to lead to truth).22:16
RST38hjavispedro: 'cause I basically need to replace "8" for "+7" in half the numbers22:16
RST38hPaul: I do not think you are trying to understand life here22:16
javispedroRST38h: dunno, I've never read the actual API itself. I'd guess there should be an easy way to export vcards though.22:17
PaulFertserRST38h: well, probably i'm lying to myself but at least i'm being honest.22:17
RST38hProselytizing to the wrong audience, yes, that you do22:17
RST38hPaul: Lying to yourself is not being honest22:17
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PaulFertserRST38h: if i believe my lies myself, it is.22:18
Milo-eww22:18
Milo-requires dpkg22:18
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lbtPaulFertser: there's a very fine line between debate and ... other things22:18
RST38hPaul: You can make yourself believe that the flame does not burn you, but any medic will readily confirm that you get burned22:18
lbtand anyway, my personal needs for contact sync take precedence over anything else I care about right now :)22:19
RST38hPaul: So, if you would like ot continue being delusional, that is your right. Just do not get us into this22:19
javispedroMilo-: yeah, if you don't want to extract the packages somehow you'll have to build from source. dpkg-deb at least should be easily installable.22:19
RST38h(besides, most of us probably heard these arguments a zillion times, so you are being boring)22:20
PaulFertserRST38h: but i think that is not about delusions. UNIX was a success exactly because it could run on many different architectures. So was the case with Linux, also it's openness contributed.22:20
Milo-just dpkg, gentoo doesn't add unnecessary garbage to the packagenames :)22:20
Milo-it's not a problem to compile from sources22:20
javispedroMilo-: dpkg-deb is an actual application.22:20
* RST38h sighs again: UNIX has been developed in AT&T labs, paid by big motherfucking Phone Company, for Cthulhu's sake22:21
StskeepsPaulFertser: i don't dispute that having maemo on multiple devices would be good for the platform. that's what we're trying to move Maemo towards using Mer.22:21
javispedroMilo-, it definitely is. To build sbox you'll probably need even more debian tools...22:21
PaulFertserBut it was given away to the universities for free. And it was portable enough.22:21
RST38hYou think your MGTS is evil? Well, AT&T is like 3 times more evil than that22:21
Milo-debian is evil, mkay22:21
microlithebil22:21
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JaffaMilo-: There's a virtual image; or if you isntall Scratchbox you can probably do the rootstraps into it on Gentoo. Dunno, I compiled my own Linux distro once and it wasn't Gentoo ;-)22:22
PaulFertserStskeeps: you're trying. But nokia doesn't seem to really want that or else they've put enough resources long time ago.22:22
javispedroMilo-: your problem is installing to Gentoo, not amd64. i'm sure there's some tutorials out there.22:22
Milo-javispedro how so ?22:23
RST38hOk. Nokia does not want that. So?22:23
Milo-E: CPU transparency method 'qemu-arm-sb' not found.22:23
PaulFertserRST38h: so that's the reason "maemo" sucks, i.e. "cool hackers" do not like it for a reason.22:23
JaffaPaulFertser: It's a journey. They're a big company. Maemo is now key to their strategy (and based on where it's come from) and they pay Stskeep to work on Mer and help move Maemo out onto other devices and bring other distros on to their hardware.22:23
Milo-whee, next error :)22:23
RST38hPaul: Ok, "cool hackers" hate Maemo. Because Maemo sucks them.22:23
JaffaPaulFertser: Trust us, if you really want to learn - and are asking questions by arguing - we know more than you.22:23
PaulFertserJaffa: if it's really the case, that's nice to hear.22:24
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ali1234maemo is still better than android22:24
RST38hPaul: Why would anyone care?22:24
ali1234plenty of that is closed too22:24
PaulFertserali1234: android is not *nix at all, so it's out of the consideration.22:24
Jaffaali1234: Android SDK and dev tools are better; but Maemo is getting there. High hopes for "SDK for Maemo 6 developers" (compared with the "Maemo 6 platform SDK")22:24
ali1234of course it is22:24
microlithPaulFertser: not in the userspace, no22:24
PaulFertserRST38h: if you do not care about the fellow developers, well, i'm ok with that.22:24
RST38hPaulFertser: WAIT. STOP22:25
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javispedrowell yeah, the user space is pretty unixy. it's not gnu though.22:25
RST38hPaulFertser: I care about fellow developers. I care about qwerty12, lcuk, VDVsx, javispedro et al22:25
PaulFertserjavispedro: the libc is not posix-compatible. There's no X. etc.22:25
microlithJaffa: my working knowlege of GTK/QT development is more readily applicable to Maemo development, that's way better than any SDK :)22:25
RST38hPaulFertser: I do not care about your 'cool hackers'. As far as I know, nobody cares about them but you =)22:25
PaulFertserRST38h: oh, sorry, my english is too bad to express my thoughts properly.22:25
Jaffamicrolith: True; that's its one BIG plus point :)22:25
ali1234Jaffa: i really don't like the android sdk, mainly because of eclipse22:26
RST38hCooling down and thinking logically may help =)22:26
Jaffaali1234: Fair enough; welcome to Maemo ;-)22:26
javispedroPaulFertser: linux's libc is not posix either, and I guess you knew that.22:26
* Jaffa likes Eclipse (for all its faults), but then he works with it on a daily basis22:26
microlithiirc, isn't Android using uClibc?22:26
javispedros/linux's libc/glibc22:26
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PaulFertserRST38h: by fellow developers i mean all the developers who work with love and passion. And there's plenty of those in the free software "community".22:27
ali1234microlith: yes22:27
javispedroI think android uses Bionic, at least for user space apps.22:27
* RST38h takes out obligatory brown bag at the mention of Eclipse22:27
JaffaRST38h: yay! :)22:27
Milo-I think I have all the depencies now22:27
Milo-lets see..22:27
* Jaffa goes to have a sit down and a nice cup of tea; and watch FlashForward.22:27
RST38hPaulFertser: I can attest for love and passion. I can only observe things people do.22:27
RST38hPaulFertser: Now, maybe your loving and passionate developers are really cool, I dunno22:28
* javispedro hates everyone and has no passion. feel no mercy!22:28
RST38hPaulFertser: All I know is that you can't show much stuff they have created22:28
RST38hPaulFertser: As for the list I have given above, all I need to do is go to Maemo Downloads and check their stuff22:28
PaulFertserRST38h: i think the GNU Project is enough for an evidence.22:29
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RST38hIs GNU Project a piece of software?22:29
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ali1234hell, maemo-extras is enough evidence22:29
ali1234only a very small amount of it was written specifically for maemo22:29
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PaulFertserRST38h: it's a project to create a Unix-like OS.22:29
RST38hPaul: And when can we see such an OS?22:30
Proteousdamnit amazon, stop lowering the price of the n90022:30
RST38hProteous: getting close to $370? ;)22:30
PaulFertserRST38h: GNU/Linux is here. Unfortunately, Hurd is not exactly successful.22:30
RST38hPaul: I know Linux. I do not know GNU/Linux22:30
PaulFertserRST38h: hm, strange, what userspace do you use then?22:31
ShapeshifterPaulFertser: does it matter22:31
RST38hAnd Linux, as we know it, is only here because huge corporations are paying people to develop its parts.22:31
ShapeshifterPaulFertser: no it doesn't.22:31
Proteousthe magic price where I buy one is higher than that22:31
RST38hPaul: Me? I use FreeBSD :)22:31
ali1234hahaha i was just about to say "probably bsd"22:31
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, hate you too. </3 :)22:32
RST38hPaul: So, to summarize, "GNU Project" is about putting the GNU tag on somethign other people developed and also developing vaporware for decades22:32
ali1234RST38h: please tell me where i can find a huge corporation for the drivers i wrote?22:32
RST38hPaul: Should I remind you about AvtoVAZ again? ;)22:32
PaulFertserRST38h: i do not thing this claim is backed up by anything.22:33
RST38hPaul: Which claim?22:33
PaulFertserRST38h: GNU Project is vapourware22:33
RST38hPaul: Do I see Hurd being used in the open? No.22:34
RST38hVaporware then.22:34
PaulFertserRST38h: Hurd is only the kernel.22:34
PaulFertserRST38h: OS is more that that22:34
RST38hDo I see Hurd kernel being used in the open? No.22:35
RST38hVaporware again.22:35
* PaulFertser wonders who's being a troll here22:35
RST38hBTW, I see Linux being used22:35
PaulFertser;)22:35
ali1234this argument is dumb. i want to know where i get my huge-corporation-money please.22:35
RST38hBut the GNU People page (http://www.gnu.org/people/) does not even mention Linux22:35
* microlith wonders if RST38h is being serious22:36
RST38hmicrolith: hush ;)22:36
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* kirma sees his future phone being active and moving around22:36
kirmatoo bad it's not going to move as far as to me before monday :I22:37
microlithkirma: not on its own I hope :o22:37
javispedroyes, n900 is people!22:37
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kirmamicrolith: UPS tracking...22:37
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microlithhuh22:38
microlithgood to see my sept. 3rd preorder is coming up for naught22:38
kirmayou have evidence of that? :)22:38
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microlithwhat, that I placed it or that it's going nowhere?22:39
kirmaI'm pretty convinced I'm getting the toy on monday - just slightly disappointed they couldn't have started shipping yesterday, would have made here before weekend.22:39
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kirmamicrolith: ehm, parse error. misread you somehow22:39
* Shapeshifter is expecting his device mid december.22:40
microlithI'd like mine before thursday, four days to play with it would be great22:40
Shapeshifter-.-22:40
RST38hShapeshifter: next december?22:40
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ShapeshifterRST38h: if all goes well >.>22:41
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ShadowJKWell, nokia shop fi sort of half-way charged my cc... I hope that means I get it next friday :)22:45
fralsglad im a swede, dont have to worry about it shipping anytime soon ;)22:46
ShadowJKlol22:46
kirmashadowjk: did you receive email about it?22:47
Shapeshifterforums being entertaining again, from "nyc now shipping" thread: "Ok guys, just got my phone. Here's what I found out from the Nokia store. he nasty woman at the store is the manager."22:47
ShadowJKsome of the stores in .fi ships to sweden too :)22:47
ShadowJKkirma, nope.22:47
Shapeshifter*the22:47
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kirmaSubject: Nokia Online Kauppa Tilausvahvistus <...>22:47
fralsyeah ShadowJK, but i recon by the time i can get one from a finnish store it should be like a week until it launches here, hopefully ;-)22:48
fralsotherwise ill just jump on a tallink boat to helsinki :D22:48
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qwerty12_N810Now there's your hardcore N900 fan :p22:48
ShadowJKkirma, that's not fair :(22:48
ShadowJKhow come my visa status says -800 and no order confirmation D:22:49
kirmaif I were you I'd have called them... already :I22:49
ShadowJKlol22:49
kirmatheir phone service is surprisingly helpful, if you ignore the fact they are eager to query names, phone numbers and stuff all the time22:50
kirmaqwerty12_N810: hardcore fan is the one that jumps from the boat when he figures out it's not available from shop here either22:51
qwerty12_N810kirma: Hehe, I stand corrected22:52
ShadowJKwell, you can take the boat this weekend to figure out it's not available, and then the next weekend again22:53
ShadowJKand then the third weekend, because the first two you enjoyed the beer on the all-you-can-eat-and-drink buffet too much22:54
ShadowJKand forgot all about buying n90022:54
kirmatell me about this "all you can drink" buffet place here, I want there too22:55
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kirmaoh, on the boat you meant :)22:55
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ShadowJKyeah :)22:57
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hrabbeyHere is a app idea, IF the n900 or other hardware supports it.  Have maemo act as a simulated bluetooth headset, allowing pair another cellphone and bluetooth mp3 or maybe a 3rd cellphone and mixing the audio streams together.  So can listen to mp3s while still not missing cellphone ringing / tones.23:03
hrabbey(Yeah, why bother having another [work] cellphone or another mp3 player...  Just cause.)23:04
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pupnik_you want to listen to music on the phone, while talking23:07
pupnik_next23:07
kirma:)23:07
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hrabbeyAnd record conversations without knowledge?  ...  ;-)23:08
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GeneralAntillesCould the -testing idiocy on the lists be more petulant and childish?23:10
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aquatixhrabbey: now that's a feature i want23:12
GeneralAntillesI can't believe the Ovi Store gets first billing and it hasn't even been launched. http://europe.nokia.com/get-support-and-software/product-support/n900/software23:12
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microliththey should update their FAQ entry for the N900 regarding MMS23:13
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wjtwhat's the point of the droid fonts being in maemo extras? :)23:26
GeneralAntilleswjt, I guess cause they're free and of reasonable quality.23:27
GeneralAntillesI don't care for them myself, but to each his own, I suppose.23:27
wjti mean… i can only use them in the text editor, right? I can't make the whole UI use them.23:28
qwerty12_N810wjt: Get to hacking the gtkrc of your favourite theme.23:28
wjtNow, DejaVu Sans Mono in my terminals, I'm excited about!23:28
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* wjt mutters about packaging inconsolata23:29
wjtqwerty12_N810: a fair point23:29
Maceri should try running a vbox in a vbox just to see what happens23:30
bigbrovarcan anyone here confirm if the inbuilt IM for the N900 supports network proxy .. The one which came with N810 doesnt23:30
qwerty12_N810Macer: Have more fun: VNC in VNC23:30
Macerqwerty12_N810: going for that mirror in the mirror effect? :)23:30
wjtbigbrovar: for xmpp? sadly not :(23:30
qwerty12_N810Macer: That's the one :)23:30
Maceri'm still trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with zimbra talking to gtalk23:31
Macermy n810 seems to randomly disconnect from it also.. it's really starting to irritate me23:31
Macerit just seems to lose it after a while of working fine23:31
bigbrovarwjt: what!! :( so no gtalk, jabber? :S23:31
Maceri'm about to check my vbox settings23:31
wjtbigbrovar: no, we still didn't get proxy support, sorry :'(23:31
* wjt →23:32
bigbrovarwjt: what about using other IM plugin like msn, yahoo skype?23:32
GeneralAntillesTelepathy extras are available in Extras-devel.23:32
GeneralAntillesSkype is built-in.23:32
Jaffawjt: Droid Sans Mono in X Terminal is very nice even at small point sizes23:33
Macerwow skype is built in?23:33
wjtbigbrovar: the extra ones don't explicitly support proxies, but we could probably hack the telepathy-haze ones up to do so23:33
wjtyeah!23:33
Maceris it the call forwarding skype? or the real skype?23:33
wjtit's the real skype23:33
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Yes, the petulance in -testing is very annoying. All this "they" eugh23:33
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wjtwith a telepathy connection manager23:33
Macerwjt: wow no kidding. that's pretty awesome23:33
bigbrovarGeneralAntilles: my question was whether skype supports proxy23:33
GAN900I need to put Monaco back on here.23:33
GAN900Jaffa, feels like Talk23:34
GAN900Jaffa, I guess these people went so long without anybody interfering in their p.23:34
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GAN900rocess. . . .23:34
bigbrovarwjt: wow this is such a deal breaker for me.. I need proxy support :( ...23:34
bigbrovarwjt:  seems to be an upstream problem?23:35
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* lbt kicks N90023:35
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lbtstupid communications device with no contacts23:36
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bigbrovarbigbrovar: 40% of the strongest point of the phone is the IM integration.. the thought that non of them work behind a network proxy just .. a let down .. I already pre-ordered one ..23:37
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bigbrovarwjt: are u awear of plans to fix this bug?23:37
ali1234the haze (ie libpurple ones) can do, if you hack the .purple config, probably23:37
ali1234even the desktop telepathy client, empathy, does not support proxies23:38
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bigbrovarali1234: yeah I know..23:38
bigbrovarali1234: and am not sure there are plans to fix that anytime soon :(23:39
Shapeshifterfinished my first n900 wallpaper. It's way from perfect, but I learned something. http://stuff.moritzg.ch/karaExA.png23:39
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Jaffabigbrovar: If the IM doesn't support proxies, I'll vote for the bug if you raise it/point me at it.23:39
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Shapeshifterit's panorama so it turns around at the end.23:39
bigbrovarJaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71823:40
povbotBug 718: Supporting Jabber through proxy23:40
Shapeshifterreplace A with 1-4 to get 4 images.23:40
bigbrovarJaffa: I already voted for it.. this was a big filed since 770 in 200623:41
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ali1234of course, i need socks proxy, not http, because my mobile provider blocks outgoing IMs whether they are http method or not23:41
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Jaffabigbrovar: Indeed23:42
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mdaumAnybody know how to control the shutter speed on an N900?23:42
ali1234so i need to run socks on localhost23:42
ali1234(voted for it anyway)23:42
bigbrovarJaffa: sad to see it made it to the N900 proxy is very common esp in universities23:42
mikedep333Shapeshifter, I eagerly look forward to having a phone with a scrolling home screen like that23:43
JaffaOf course, the term "deal breaker" is bandied around too often. It comes across too much (certainly on tmo) of people saying "if you don't fix this, I won't buy it - and I don't care about your prioritisation process because it's important to *me*" (of course, here it _is_ important; but it smacks of arrogance now in Maemo circles IMVHO)23:43
Jaffabigbrovar: US universities, I assume you mean.23:43
bigbrovarJaffa: and majority of N900 target audience are students in uni so we should expect a surge in the bug activity in term of votes23:44
Shapeshiftermikedep333: I'll make more anime stuff. I haven't even got the phone myself :|23:44
ali1234Jaffa: so we should buy things that don't work?23:44
javispedrobigbrovar: get used to it and fix it by yourself. see eduroam.23:44
Jaffaali1234: No23:44
greenflyif something is a deal breaker it would probably make sense to confirm whether that particular feature is in place /before/ money is exchanged23:44
javispedros/and/or23:44
bigbrovarJaffa: not just us, and but even most co-operate places23:44
ali1234we should just not say anything then?23:44
bigbrovarjavispedro: ?!23:44
* VDVsx remembers Darius and his "think tank" o_023:44
mikedep333I'm a university student. my university uses both cisco vpn for wi-fi, and WPA 2 TTLS-EAP PAP23:45
mikedep333I don't believe I can do either of those on my nokia 5800 xpressmusic23:45
Jaffaali1234: My point is that on talk.maemo.org there are people registering just to say "Nokia should do $RANDOM, it's a deal breaker for me!". It's become a cliche, and it's become a cliche because the people doing it are arrogant enough to think a) I care; and b) that their one lost sale (which the "for me") bit emphasises is important.23:45
greenflyyou could always use the cellular data connection23:45
ali1234Jaffa: if the number of people doing it is so high then maybe you should care? (or *somebody* should)23:46
Jaffaali1234: Now, lots of lost sales are going to be important to Nokia; I was trying to explain why "deal breaker" has entered some people in the Maemo community's lexicon under the "drinking game" category23:46
Jaffaali1234: Each person has a separate one23:46
greenflyfor some people, some particular UI decision is a "deal breaker"23:46
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greenflyIMO the difference between the maemo platform and a lot of others is that you actually have a chance to fix your own "dealbreaker" problems23:47
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javispedroexactly.23:47
greenfly(and without learning Java!)23:47
javispedrothat's what impressed me about the platform and the single reason I'm still here.23:47
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qwerty12_N810javispedro: Not because of the lovely community? *sniff*23:48
greenflyheh23:48
JaffaAnd I've got into trouble before for trying to explain why one bit of the community thinks something, to someone who takes immediate umbrage, and so I'm not in the mood for it now :-/23:48
javispedroqwerty12_N810: I hate you all, I've told you!! ;)23:49
greenflyfor what it's worth, if your connection allows SSH, you can always set up an SSH tunnel to act as a socks proxy23:49
qwerty12_N810Fine: /ignore javispedro23:49
ali1234greenfly: you can, but telepathy can't use it23:49
JaffaAnd, the great thing about the Maemo community this evening (random IRC rantage and -testing petulance aside) is that I'm now put off from doing the complex cross-posting thingy I was going to do; and instead go to bed and read and sleep. This is a Good Thing :)23:49
Milo-great23:49
bigbrovarJaffa: any idea if pidgin has been ported to the N900 its usually my saving grace23:49
greenflyali1234: or, if your connection allows something like openVPN, you can set up a tunnel to a network that allows what you need23:50
greenflybigbrovar: yeah there's a package either in -devel or -testing23:50
ali1234greenfly: that is exactly what i do (ssh socks proxy) but it only works with pidgin/libpurple and not telepathy/empathy/whatever23:50
greenflyno Off The Record support yet, but the main bits are there23:50
Milo-sdk-installer fails, if I have scratchbox -service started, tells me to close all scratchbox sessions, and if it's not started, it fails because it has to be started 8D23:50
greenflyali1234: you could set up an openvpn tunnel, perhaps23:51
greenflythere's even an applet for it now23:51
ali1234greenfly: i could do but that is several times more complicated23:51
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greenflyali1234: well, I agree, the easiest thing is to try to get someone else to set it up :)23:51
greenflybut the point is you have options23:51
Milo-Check for scratchbox sessions running...23:51
ali1234bad ones :(23:51
Milo-E: You must close your other scratchbox sessions first23:51
greenflyali1234: perhaps reconsider your purchase if it's a really big problem23:52
ali1234oh don't worry, i didn't pay for this thing23:52
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bigbrovargreenfly: Jaffa i would have to really on my 3g for IM part.  it would be cool to use wireless but hey .. cant have it all :) .. hope the issue is fixed one day23:52
Milo-E: Scratchbox user's /dev is not properly set up. Couldn't read /dev/null.23:52
Milo-E: Start scratchbox service with 'sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start'.23:52
Milo-8D23:52
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ali1234i barely use IM on it anyway, i'm more bothered by the fact that the same problem hits me on the desktop23:52
Milo-how am I supposed to install it then? 8D23:53
Milo-I can't have scratchbox-service STARTED and STOPPED at the same time 8Dd23:53
ali1234but there i can just install pidgin, so meh23:53
greenflyI think maemo5 might just be the thing that encourages me to learn python23:54
ali1234Milo-: perhaps create /dev/null manually?23:54
Milo-I do have /dev/null ._·23:54
Milo-but not in scratchbox's place23:54
bigbrovarali1234: yep .. the good ole pidgin always works .. although lacks the integration and awesomeness of the default IM .. having all ur contacts (gtalk, skype etc) in one place23:55
ali1234Milo-: there's a different one "inside" scratchbox23:55
ali1234bigbrovar: yes, and it sucks on the small screen too23:55
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greenflythe integration I'm looking forward to is someone integrating dialcentral (ie. Call from Google Voice) into the main contact list23:55
bigbrovarali1234: but i dont think skype would be affected though ( yeah it sucks.. but at least it works :) )23:55
ali1234Milo-: mknod /scratchbox/dev/null c 1 323:56
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Milo-why does it upgrade scratchbox each time23:57
ali1234"it?"23:57
Milo-the installer..23:57
ali1234oh. cos it's just a script?23:57
Milo-should check if it's already done23:58
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ali1234i think on ubuntu it uses apt to install sbox, so if it's already there, it doesn't do it again23:58
ali1234don't know about anything else23:58
Milo-scratchbox is in portage too23:59
ali1234yeah but god knows which version, or if it will still be the same version tomorrow23:59
Milo-oh well23:59

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