| owen | sent to urho | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| konttori | owen: thanks | 00:01 |
| CoreFusion- | hmph... too much for me, I hope they will implement support for ads | 00:01 |
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| konttori | I would also love to have the ad supported version. | 00:01 |
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| konttori | well, I can always use my mac, but still. | 00:02 |
| CoreFusion- | owen: can you spare me one :) | 00:02 |
| owen | yeah sure whats your email? | 00:02 |
| CoreFusion- | corefusion@gmail.com | 00:02 |
| CoreFusion- | hx | 00:03 |
| CoreFusion- | thx* | 00:03 |
| owen | sent | 00:03 |
| owen | only for Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, France or Spain. | 00:03 |
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| VDVsx | don't paste email here, the channel is logged, you're risking more spam :P | 00:03 |
| owen | according to website | 00:03 |
| VDVsx | owen, yup, can't use it :( | 00:04 |
| owen | gmail has good spam filters though | 00:04 |
| owen | Arrr | 00:04 |
| CoreFusion- | i was just about to say that :) | 00:04 |
| CoreFusion- | have been using for years and i have had spam in my inbox less than 10 times | 00:04 |
| Flandry | pupnik: I changed the lander discovery font to light green in next uqm version | 00:05 |
| Flandry | thanks for reporting :) | 00:05 |
| VDVsx | CoreFusion-, true, they could use their spam filters in google groups as well, my inbox spam is all from groups :( | 00:05 |
| konttori | night all! | 00:05 |
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| CoreFusion- | nn | 00:06 |
| owen | later | 00:07 |
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| javispedro | if you every use samba as server on a tablet, ensure you don't get selected as the domain local master. | 00:08 |
| javispedro | or watch your battery burn. | 00:08 |
| javispedro | well, with smb your battery will burn either way, but still. | 00:08 |
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| pupnik | how big is the install of server+client, javispedro ? | 00:08 |
| javispedro | hum.. I didn't measure it. | 00:09 |
| pupnik | used to be giant | 00:09 |
| javispedro | well, the smbd binary is 2.6 MiB | 00:09 |
| javispedro | this is with -Os | 00:09 |
| javispedro | here it is. server = 2.8 MiB (.deb compression) | 00:10 |
| pupnik | k | 00:10 |
| pupnik | very much better | 00:10 |
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| pupnik | javispedro: tried blitting snes 2x withiut emu running | 00:15 |
| pupnik | just to test sdl update at 523x384? | 00:16 |
| javispedro | aha | 00:16 |
| pupnik | i saw some talk about gtk pixbufs etc | 00:16 |
| lbt | has anyone used gnokki with the n900 ? | 00:16 |
| pupnik | never saw fps for standard sdl blits | 00:16 |
| lbt | I asked earlier but I've been out :) | 00:17 |
| pupnik | nit i | 00:17 |
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| pupnik | so cool how you can escape out of sdl with tap upper left | 00:29 |
| * pupnik tries running many things :) | 00:29 | |
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| dmkae | hey pupnik | 00:37 |
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| b-man17 | ~seen xnt14 | 00:38 |
| infobot | xnt14 <n=xnt14@pool-71-190-240-27.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 11h 37s ago, saying: 'awesome ;)'. | 00:38 |
| b-man17 | hm | 00:38 |
| pupnik | dude javispedro 50% system load | 00:38 |
| pupnik | to get video + audio out the door | 00:38 |
| pupnik | jesus | 00:38 |
| javispedro | ah, well.. | 00:38 |
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| pupnik | this needs to become a dialogue again | 00:39 |
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| pupnik | and i am not sure i should be very active in it | 00:39 |
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| pupnik | might be fun eh? | 00:41 |
| javispedro | :) | 00:41 |
| pupnik | apparently i was not nearly enough of a pain in the ass last time | 00:42 |
| pupnik | btw i am using a > a b > z x > x y > s also Fn for escape | 00:43 |
| pupnik | cursor keys win over n810 dpad, handily :) good job there, nokia | 00:44 |
| javispedro | they do? | 00:44 |
| javispedro | that's nice to hear. | 00:44 |
| jaem | pupnik, definitely | 00:44 |
| pupnik | for me | 00:44 |
| jaem | the keyboard is pretty nice once you get used to it | 00:44 |
| * javispedro wonders how they'll do playing mario kart | 00:44 | |
| CoreFusion- | i don't like the dpad on N810... | 00:44 |
| LiraNuna | how's the battery life? | 00:45 |
| CoreFusion- | the center button is too big | 00:45 |
| jaem | my main annoyance is that there are two buttons under the space key - it's probably necessary, but it always throws me off when touch-typing | 00:45 |
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| jaem | LiraNuna, should get you through a day | 00:45 |
| javispedro | ouch | 00:45 |
| LiraNuna | "horrible" eh | 00:45 |
| pupnik | buttons under the space key? | 00:45 |
| jaem | I use it quite heavily, the more so because it's new and shiny, and lasts me about a day - also, it's prerelease, so the retail units may be better | 00:45 |
| * javispedro sees that only animation actors and remote textures are scaled | 00:46 | |
| javispedro | so I'd need to create a new window from SDL... though. | 00:46 |
| jaem | pupnik, two actual switches | 00:46 |
| LiraNuna | jaem, oh right, some stuff are disabled aren't they? | 00:46 |
| jaem | sometimes it will feel like it's doubleclicked | 00:46 |
| jaem | LiraNuna, not sure | 00:46 |
| javispedro | this needs more though. | 00:46 |
| LiraNuna | I've heard BT is disabled | 00:46 |
| jaem | LiraNuna, not with mine | 00:46 |
| LiraNuna | (on the preview units) | 00:46 |
| jaem | it's a later model | 00:46 |
| LiraNuna | I see | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiraNuna, really early protos. | 00:46 |
| jaem | keep in mind, though, that I use it heavily, and that it is a computer | 00:46 |
| pupnik | bt works here mostly | 00:46 |
| LiraNuna | GeneralAntilles, I didn't know it changed | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiraNuna, most of the bloggers you've seen have gotten them in very roundabout ways. | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiraNuna, and their units are REALLY early. | 00:47 |
| LiraNuna | I see | 00:47 |
| LiraNuna | was it software issue? | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hardware, AFAIK | 00:47 |
| LiraNuna | ah | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | A lot of them have 16GB, too. | 00:47 |
| LiraNuna | ah yes | 00:47 |
| LiraNuna | I recall that too | 00:47 |
| CoreFusion- | But that doesn't matter now :) | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mines from around September and its hardware mostly matches retail. | 00:47 |
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| jaem | GeneralAntilles, mine was borrowed from Nokia at Dev Days, for a project | 00:48 |
| LiraNuna | how about software? can I get a uname -a? :D | 00:48 |
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| jaem | LiraNuna, one sec | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Linux Nokia-N900-42-11 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Wed Oct 28 15:32:55 EET 2009 armv7l unknown | 00:49 |
| pupnik | well no need to buy a n900 for performance in sdl games | 00:49 |
| LiraNuna | .28? | 00:49 |
| pupnik | slower than n800 | 00:49 |
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| * pupnik salutes | 00:49 | |
| jaem | Linux Jelena 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT [date] armv7l unknown | 00:49 |
| jaem | same | 00:49 |
| javispedro | pupnik: not surprised (compositor, pulseaudio, ...) | 00:49 |
| LiraNuna | I thought they're gonna use .31 | 00:49 |
| jaem | LiraNuna, yes - at least it's fairly recent now | 00:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, seems like there were some performance fixes in the pipeline. | 00:50 |
| LiraNuna | .28 has a lot of performance regressions | 00:50 |
| pupnik | im going to imagination forums someday with a cart full of trout | 00:50 |
| pupnik | ah nice | 00:50 |
| LiraNuna | .27-.29 to be exact | 00:50 |
| javispedro | well the kernel version is probably not going to change for the whole of the n900 lifetime. | 00:51 |
| javispedro | unless you consider m6 plans.. | 00:51 |
| Flandry | slower than N800? oO | 00:51 |
| * pupnik sad | 00:51 | |
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| pupnik | flandry, i can give you patch to make uqm update fullscreen | 00:51 |
| pupnik | but what for | 00:52 |
| LiraNuna | <pupnik> slower than n800 | 00:52 |
| LiraNuna | joke? | 00:52 |
| Flandry | why would we want to update fullscreen? | 00:52 |
| pupnik | look at that 'top' output under drnoksnes guys | 00:52 |
| LiraNuna | I thought there's HW accel now | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiraNuna, specifically for SDL. :) | 00:52 |
| LiraNuna | ah | 00:52 |
| pupnik | lira comparing now | 00:52 |
| javispedro | pupnik: warning, warning. remember drnoksnes on n900 uses sw scaling. | 00:52 |
| LiraNuna | so SDL does not use HW accel I take it? | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiraNuna, and, like I said, I think there are performance fixes in the pipeline. | 00:53 |
| Flandry | no | 00:53 |
| LiraNuna | figures | 00:53 |
| Flandry | afaik no hardware acceleration of anything | 00:53 |
| LiraNuna | but "slower" would still be weird | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's an SDL OpenGL bug on bugzilla. | 00:53 |
| javispedro | pupnik: use "none" scaler | 00:53 |
| LiraNuna | as 400MHz -> 600MHz is significant | 00:53 |
| javispedro | OpenGL doesn't help for putting 2D images | 00:53 |
| LiraNuna | especially on ARM | 00:53 |
| * LiraNuna wants OpenVG | 00:53 | |
| javispedro | well it's not much significant when the bottleneck is memory bandwidth. | 00:54 |
| LiraNuna | oh, so it's bandwidth problem, not rendering speed | 00:54 |
| javispedro | yeah. we're talking about 2d here. | 00:54 |
| javispedro | putting pixels to screen. | 00:54 |
| LiraNuna | right | 00:54 |
| CShadowRun | Wasn't the N900 supposed to be in shops yesterday? | 00:55 |
| Flandry | still, wouldn't using a OGL surface for SDL speed that up? | 00:55 |
| javispedro | no, why? | 00:55 |
| LiraNuna | I thought it's 30th Nov | 00:55 |
| javispedro | opengl is not designed for "putting pixels to screen" | 00:55 |
| CShadowRun | i heard 16th, but meh ok :P | 00:55 |
| LiraNuna | I might be wrong too | 00:55 |
| LiraNuna | I mean, that's what newegg says -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205178 | 00:56 |
| Flandry | i guess i'm thinking of a device with video RAM | 00:56 |
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| ShadowJK | Still, lcuk manages to push lots more pixels to screen on n900? :) | 00:56 |
| javispedro | yeah, he uses xv. | 00:56 |
| CShadowRun | wikipedia says it was released on 11th november :S | 00:56 |
| Flandry | it *would* be faster for scaling | 00:56 |
| Flandry | right? | 00:56 |
| pupnik | k i was wrong, n900 faster - n8110 hd disabled accurate gfx | 00:56 |
| CShadowRun | I went into a vodafone shop today and asked about the release date, they tried to sell me an Xperia X1, i was like :| | 00:57 |
| javispedro | pupnik: accurate gfx having such an impact? which rom you're testing? | 00:57 |
| CShadowRun | And i chuckled when they said Windows CE | 00:57 |
| pupnik | n900 1 fps faster - ct | 00:57 |
| Flandry | lol | 00:57 |
| LiraNuna | lmao | 00:57 |
| CShadowRun | They told me it was just as capable | 00:57 |
| CShadowRun | xD | 00:57 |
| jaem | CShadowRun, ha! were they just trying to sell you something else, or were they being stupid? | 00:57 |
| javispedro | ct... this reminds me of the mode5 borders bug. baaah | 00:57 |
| CShadowRun | jaem, just trying to sell me something else, they apparently arn't going to be offering the N900 on contract | 00:58 |
| LiraNuna | mode5 border bug? GBA? | 00:58 |
| CShadowRun | They also told me the N97 mini was the same as the N900 | 00:58 |
| jaem | um... | 00:58 |
| javispedro | LiraNuna: SNES | 00:58 |
| CShadowRun | yea... | 00:58 |
| pupnik | lets just have sdl HW surface be something accelerated and non composited | 00:58 |
| LiraNuna | GBA inherited that 'bug' as well | 00:58 |
| pupnik | pls? | 00:58 |
| pupnik | ir i will wind up the whine siren here | 00:59 |
| LiraNuna | MODE5 - double buffered framebuffer 128x96 px 16bit | 00:59 |
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| javispedro | LiraNuna: what you mean by GBA? snezzy or other snes emus on gba? or actual gba hw? | 00:59 |
| LiraNuna | actual GBA HW | 00:59 |
| javispedro | oh. | 01:00 |
| javispedro | never read of it :P | 01:00 |
| Flandry | well what does an "accelerated" HW surface mean in SDL then in N900 context | 01:00 |
| javispedro | in SDL means little. | 01:00 |
| pupnik | something where i blit 400x240 and fill screen without software scaling | 01:00 |
| javispedro | I mean, in current SDL on N900. | 01:00 |
| pupnik | and wiithout copying unnexessary data | 01:00 |
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| Flandry | because memory bandwidth is the limiter, right | 01:01 |
| Flandry | and there's no VRAM | 01:01 |
| javispedro | no, because it does not do nothing :) | 01:01 |
| pupnik | that is the damn proble description | 01:01 |
| javispedro | exactly :) | 01:01 |
| LiraNuna | no texture cache? | 01:01 |
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| LiraNuna | I thought it's OGL ES 2.0, no shader support to scale? | 01:02 |
| javispedro | setting SDL_HWSURFACE does nothing, that's what I mean. | 01:02 |
| javispedro | because ... nothing's implemented. | 01:02 |
| LiraNuna | right, but is it possible? | 01:02 |
| LiraNuna | <Flandry> and there's no VRAM | 01:03 |
| javispedro | of course you can use OGLES 2.0 | 01:03 |
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| Flandry | but it is reading/writing to main memory unless it fits in registers | 01:03 |
| Flandry | seems pretty pointless actually | 01:03 |
| pupnik | hmm glsdl | 01:04 |
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| pupnik | ok | 01:04 |
| javispedro | but remember that your color buffer will get converted into a texture and drawn again... | 01:04 |
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| javispedro | by the compositor. | 01:04 |
| Flandry | i hadn't really thought of it in those terms :/ | 01:04 |
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| javispedro | and the pandora guys basically said that the powervr sucks at updating textures. | 01:04 |
| Flandry | how much cache does the GPU have? | 01:05 |
| javispedro | (there's this new nokia texture_from_pixmaps which may be faster though) | 01:05 |
| pupnik | javispedro: i hate how drnok lurches ... damn... | 01:06 |
| pupnik | like a stumbling drunk | 01:07 |
| pupnik | argh | 01:07 |
| pupnik | how about a volume limiter as an nalternative to eq. konttori is right | 01:07 |
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| pupnik | omething an app could request from dbzs? | 01:08 |
| javispedro | dunno what you mean by lurching... | 01:08 |
| pupnik | slow fast slow fast | 01:09 |
| javispedro | hm. | 01:09 |
| javispedro | does that happen with a fixed frameskip? | 01:10 |
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| javispedro | either way debugging anything without hw is absolutely awful and I don't plan to do it again :) | 01:13 |
| Flandry | yeah i can understand that | 01:14 |
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| * CoreFusion- listenign to Waldo on spotify, thanks owen! | 01:15 | |
| Flandry | i've been looking at info on the SGX 530. Still can't see any info on cache. It must have some cache, right? | 01:15 |
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| pupnik | your mode7 is awesome javis | 01:15 |
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| pupnik | as fast as normal in ct | 01:15 |
| pupnik | roughly | 01:15 |
| javispedro | i want to share it back some day... | 01:15 |
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| javispedro | Flandry: why would you be interested in that? | 01:16 |
| pupnik | javis, i wasnt running fixed but auto | 01:16 |
| pupnik | fixed seemed really strange | 01:16 |
| javispedro | pupnik: yeah, but may explain if there's some weirdness caused by it. | 01:17 |
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| pupnik | javispedro i think fixed 20fps could be doable | 01:17 |
| javispedro | pupnik: an interesting thing to test would be killing the compositor (hildon-desktop) | 01:17 |
| javispedro | however If you do it "as is" will cause a reboot | 01:18 |
| pupnik | heh good läord | 01:18 |
| pupnik | heh yes? | 01:18 |
| javispedro | and I don't know if that /etc/no_lg_reboots file still works.. | 01:18 |
| pupnik | music like a bar mityvah band at 3 AM | 01:19 |
| * javispedro wants to test how omapfb performs... oh... I want free time. | 01:20 | |
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| b-man17 | http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/microsoft-store-employees-break-out-in-dance-video/ | 01:36 |
| b-man17 | rofl! | 01:36 |
| Flandry | because the size of the GPU cache is very relevant in a system that is memory bandwidth-limited? | 01:36 |
| javispedro | depends on how the GPU works. | 01:36 |
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| derf | GPUs are always memory bandwidth-limited. | 01:36 |
| Flandry | not entirely true, but anyway i was referring to the entire system | 01:37 |
| javispedro | that's the reason the powervr is tile based.. | 01:38 |
| Flandry | so it can be small, hmm yeah | 01:39 |
| luke-jr | FYI: PowerVR SGX == Intel GMA 500 | 01:39 |
| Flandry | you make it sound so dirty | 01:40 |
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| pupnik | javispedro: how bout adding diagonals to drnoksnes | 01:42 |
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| javispedro | ah, yep. | 01:42 |
| pupnik | so i can zse p . del for an i-way pad | 01:42 |
| pupnik | 8-way | 01:42 |
| pupnik | will work perfectly | 01:42 |
| pupnik | :) | 01:43 |
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| pupnik | arbeiten.gif! | 01:43 |
| pupnik | n900 3-row kbd will make a NICE dual-joystick setup for robotrin and smashtv | 01:44 |
| pupnik | cant wait to show kids how to play that | 01:44 |
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| Flandry | oh man. Smash TV | 01:48 |
| Flandry | I forgot about that one | 01:48 |
| wiretapped | so is the n900 in stores yet? | 01:48 |
| wiretapped | i would like to buy one | 01:48 |
| wiretapped | haven | 01:48 |
| wiretapped | 't heard back on the dev discount thing yet | 01:48 |
| Flandry | i'm excited about Ikari myself :) | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, yeah, you haven't gotten yours yet? | 01:48 |
| wiretapped | no! | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Everybody else got theirs. | 01:49 |
| wiretapped | wtf | 01:49 |
| wiretapped | i was a little late replying | 01:49 |
| wiretapped | to the ddp | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sorry. :P | 01:49 |
| wiretapped | i'm ready to buy one retail | 01:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | DDP is supposedly shipping Friday or next week. | 01:49 |
| wiretapped | and sell it if/when i get the ddp | 01:49 |
| javispedro | wishful thinkiiiiiing | 01:49 |
| javispedro | :) | 01:49 |
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| wiretapped | so does anyone know which US retailers are getting them? | 01:51 |
| * wiretapped wants to walk into a store and buy a mobile device with a preinstalled xterm | 01:52 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Rumors say Best Buy, maybe. | 01:52 |
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| wiretapped | bestbuy.com has one hit for n900 currently; the Xbox Wireless Microphone | 01:53 |
| wiretapped | maybe i'll just get that instead | 01:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | wiretapped, they took it down, apparently. | 01:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | So who knows what's what. | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Supposedly retail units are coming a week or two after pre-order units. | 01:54 |
| wiretapped | i finally got to use one for 15 minutes, at least | 01:55 |
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| wiretapped | it's awesome :) | 01:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 01:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia doesn't want any of your nerdy shit on Maemo 5. :P | 01:55 |
| wiretapped | heh | 01:55 |
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| pupnik | does sending audio at 24 or 48khz lower pulseaudio system load during resampling? | 01:56 |
| wiretapped | their built-in themes are much less in need of replacing this time | 01:56 |
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| wiretapped | but somehow i expect that there will be more themes for maemo5 than there were for 4 :) | 01:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo 4's default was the first theme that wasn't completely horrifying. | 01:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd love to see a Bora Plankton port to Fremantle, though. | 01:57 |
| wiretapped | i'm a bit sad that the sidebar is gone; it was so perfectly suited for LCARS | 01:58 |
| zaheerm | my resolv.conf stopped getting updated on my n900 when i change network etc. | 01:58 |
| zaheerm | anyone with any ideas as to how i can get normal behaviour again? | 01:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Beautific: http://mg.pov.lt/osso-xterm-buttons1.png | 01:58 |
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| dmj726 | hi zaheerm | 02:15 |
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| dmj726 | are you available atm? | 02:15 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, hi yep | 02:15 |
| zaheerm | connection flaky however | 02:15 |
| dmj726 | okay | 02:16 |
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| dmj726 | I noticed that you're the maintainer of zope.interface | 02:17 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, btw, are you arranging your BCN flights with Nokia's travel company ? | 02:17 |
| dmj726 | What's going on with that? | 02:17 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, yep | 02:17 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, in what way? | 02:17 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, did you already received any reply ? | 02:18 |
| dmj726 | I know that it's not on the tablets and the repos say it didn't build | 02:18 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, they sent me an email today saying they reserved x flights for me | 02:18 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, they want a reply from me whether they should confirm them | 02:18 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, aah yes | 02:18 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, when did you send the request ? | 02:19 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, i had an issue with the python-van package that it build deps on tracebacking | 02:19 |
| dmj726 | It's needed to port this one app I started porting. | 02:19 |
| VDVsx | I didn't heard from them yet, they used to be fast | 02:19 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, last friday | 02:19 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, ah ok, I sent mine in the weekend | 02:20 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, i can provide you a deb if you want | 02:20 |
| dmj726 | sure | 02:20 |
| dmj726 | the deb works? | 02:20 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, but it is armel only not x86 | 02:20 |
| dmj726 | silly question | 02:20 |
| dmj726 | ah | 02:20 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, otherwise you'll have to wait for me to sort it (plan to do it this week) | 02:20 |
| dmj726 | okay | 02:20 |
| pupnik | heh how do get brackets in n900 xterm? i see no symbols icon | 02:21 |
| zaheerm | press fn sym | 02:21 |
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| pupnik | ctrl, tab, esc, pgup, pgdn, minimize/max | 02:21 |
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| pupnik | ahk | 02:22 |
| dmj726 | Send me the deb in case I have time for it. | 02:22 |
| zaheerm | pupnik, you only just got your n900? | 02:22 |
| pupnik | nice | 02:22 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, email address? | 02:22 |
| dmj726 | THough I suspect I'll have more time over thanksgiving | 02:22 |
| pupnik | just got it running again | 02:22 |
| zaheerm | dmj726, sent | 02:24 |
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| dmj726 | zaheerm: thanks! | 02:29 |
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| mdaum | Hello all. Looking for info on controlling the N900's camera. | 02:54 |
| mdaum | Particularly shutter speed, for example. | 02:55 |
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| CoreFusion- | What about it? | 02:58 |
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| mdaum | What API can I use to control it. | 02:59 |
| CoreFusion- | I have no idea, sorry :/ | 02:59 |
| mdaum | How I can get access to events from the "take picture" button..... | 02:59 |
| mdaum | Generally camera control. | 02:59 |
| CoreFusion- | Have you tried searching the wiki? | 03:00 |
| mdaum | A bit. There's something called GDigicam | 03:00 |
| CoreFusion- | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Camera_API_Usage | 03:00 |
| mdaum | Yes, I've seen that. | 03:01 |
| mdaum | I'm not saying it's not useful. | 03:01 |
| mdaum | Good starting point, but doesn't point me to the deeper info. | 03:01 |
| mdaum | GDigicam has a very similar "hello world!" to the one you just linked | 03:01 |
| mdaum | Both seem to studiously avoid using the "take picture" button. | 03:02 |
| CoreFusion- | there is a part that talks about "Take photo", is that a different thing? | 03:02 |
| mdaum | Even the camera app provided doesn't provide shutter speed control. | 03:02 |
| mdaum | It's a hildon button on the touch screen. | 03:02 |
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| mdaum | Labelled "Take photo" | 03:03 |
| CoreFusion- | ok, you are talking about the hw button? | 03:03 |
| mdaum | not the physical button on the top right of the device | 03:03 |
| mdaum | Yah, that's the one I'm talking about. | 03:03 |
| mdaum | It's nitpicky, but I'm doing research into the way cameras jitter when people take pictures. | 03:04 |
| CoreFusion- | Ok, then I guess you'll just have to wait until there is someone here who knows about that, I can't help you with that | 03:04 |
| mdaum | So I'd really like them to be doing it the way they usually do. | 03:04 |
| mdaum | Thanks for listening :) | 03:04 |
| CoreFusion- | what kind of research? | 03:04 |
| mdaum | Computer vision | 03:04 |
| mdaum | Deblurring | 03:05 |
| derf | What lab? | 03:05 |
| CoreFusion- | Interesting | 03:05 |
| mdaum | University of Toronto, DGP | 03:05 |
| CoreFusion- | so what are you looking for exactly? | 03:05 |
| mdaum | See if today's cheap sensors provide enough telemetry to really help deblur shaky images. | 03:06 |
| CoreFusion- | sorry for my bad english but what you mean by telemetry? | 03:07 |
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| mdaum | Measurements of the physical position and motion of the camera while the shutter is open. | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Deshaking - significantly - isn't really practical due to SNR limits usually. | 03:07 |
| CoreFusion- | Hmm | 03:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | The camera will - probably - be limited to a full readout in some smallish fraction of a second - IIRC ~1/10th of a second is typical for this class of sensor. | 03:08 |
| SpeedEvil | It may have a faster 'binned' output mode. | 03:08 |
| CoreFusion- | only 110th?? | 03:09 |
| CoreFusion- | 1/10** | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | CoreFusion-: yes | 03:09 |
| CoreFusion- | damn | 03:09 |
| CoreFusion- | And here I was hoping that I wouldn't have to drag my camera with me always.. | 03:10 |
| CoreFusion- | :P | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | The performance of the camera is not bad - for a phone camera. | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | It really, really suffers if you compare it to a 'real' camera though unfortunately. | 03:10 |
| CoreFusion- | SpeedEvil: Well I'm used to a dslr.. | 03:11 |
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| CoreFusion- | I knew it wouldn't compare to it, but for casual photos.. | 03:12 |
| CoreFusion- | it doesn't really matter that much | 03:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Look on flickr for n900 images. | 03:12 |
| SpeedEvil | It's quite good - for a phone camera. | 03:12 |
| CoreFusion- | I have seen some of them | 03:12 |
| CoreFusion- | And some are good, some are not | 03:12 |
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| CoreFusion- | I think that it's highly affected by the conditions | 03:13 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 03:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Bright light is always going to show off most cameras. | 03:13 |
| mdaum | Well 1/10 should be slow enough to see camera shake blur, no? | 03:15 |
| mdaum | Of course the N900 has a CMOS camera, which complicates. | 03:15 |
| CoreFusion- | Sure | 03:15 |
| mdaum | The camera app has an "exposure" setting, but it sort of seems to act like gain. | 03:15 |
| mdaum | SpeedEvil: the deblurring works better than you'd think. | 03:16 |
| pupnik | i did night oix in amst | 03:16 |
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| CoreFusion- | pupnik: care to share them? | 03:17 |
| pupnik | yiu can see the usual problems with nolise and purple fringing. exposure was good | 03:17 |
| pupnik | flickr arnim-s | 03:17 |
| pupnik | sorry for dupes | 03:17 |
| SpeedEvil | mdaum: Are you counting real images, or are you doing it on simulated noiseless images? | 03:17 |
| pupnik | dear sweer lord | 03:17 |
| pupnik | down to 1400 cycles with dropouts | 03:17 |
| pupnik | here we go | 03:18 |
| mdaum | So far I'm only using synthetic data, because I haven't gotten real telemetry yet. | 03:18 |
| dmj726 | I can't tell...has image quality been improving with recent firmware updates? | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | mdaum: you've quantised the data - and added noise and blur? | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | mdaum: and you've counted the bayer effect? | 03:18 |
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| mdaum | Ooh. What's the bayer effect? | 03:19 |
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| pupnik | wonder if we can ditch or temporarily kill pulseaudio | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Bayer is the colour filter matrix in front of the pixels | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | RG | 03:19 |
| dmj726 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | GB | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | organised | 03:20 |
| mdaum | Here's one of the recent papers, SpeedEvil: Howdy. I'm having trouble connecting to a bluetooth sensor from my laptop. But I have an N900 that it works from. Here's the hcidump of it working from the N900: http://pastebin.com/m602751d1 and here is the dump of it *not* working from my laptop: http://pastebin.com/m59a8006f | 03:20 |
| mdaum | Oops: | 03:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | It is the way black and white sensors fake being colour sensors. | 03:20 |
| mdaum | Here it is: http://cs.nyu.edu/~fergus/research/deblur.html | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - a way | 03:20 |
| pupnik | n900 runs dosbox slower than n800 | 03:20 |
| pupnik | nice | 03:20 |
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| mdaum | Ah, I see the bayer effect. | 03:20 |
| CoreFusion- | pupnik: that's odd | 03:21 |
| mdaum | Usually you solve for the blur kernel on the intensity image, and then deblur the color channels in a non-blind way using that kernel. | 03:21 |
| * SpeedEvil waits till he has a better connection. | 03:21 | |
| mdaum | Noise is an issue. Everyone models it as gaussian, which breaks down for jpeg. | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not sure if the sensor output JPEG - it might | 03:22 |
| dmj726 | then don't use jpeg? | 03:22 |
| mdaum | It can do png | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Some sensors natively output jpeg | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | In at least some modes | 03:22 |
| CoreFusion- | RAW FTW! | 03:22 |
| dmj726 | the sensor shouldn't be doing jpeg...that would be silly | 03:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | dmj726: nevertheless, it is done sometimes. | 03:24 |
| mdaum | Sensor may not do jpeg, but it may be all the user has access to nonetheless. | 03:24 |
| dmj726 | I wouldn't care about that on a crappy dumbphone vga camera, but something that has decent optics shouldn't | 03:24 |
| dmj726 | I hope the n900 lets us write non-jpeg software | 03:25 |
| mdaum | It does. But it's much slower to write back the images. | 03:25 |
| CoreFusion- | mdaum: about that link you put; nice deblurring indeed.. :) | 03:25 |
| dmj726 | just because of the bigger file size? | 03:25 |
| mdaum | Pretty good, no? Sadly not my work. | 03:26 |
| mdaum | But that paper made a splash. | 03:26 |
| mdaum | That was my guess dmj726 | 03:26 |
| dmj726 | still would allow for reasonable rate of capturing stills though I hope? | 03:27 |
| CoreFusion- | I send them a msg if I could get that code :) I could try it out on couple of my own pics :) | 03:27 |
| mdaum | It's matlab code. Worth trying tho. I'd love to hear how it works for you. | 03:27 |
| dmj726 | very nice debluring | 03:28 |
| CoreFusion- | Yeah I have access to matlab at school | 03:28 |
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| mdaum | No problem then. | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.robotshop.us/sfe-cmos-camera-1300-1040-1.html - camera with inbuilt jpeg | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | It's actually built onto the same chip as the sensor | 03:29 |
| mdaum | How cool is that? | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | it's so that you can do jpeg video without much external heavy lifting | 03:29 |
| mdaum | Ten bucks. | 03:29 |
| CoreFusion- | Hmm.. I could get one of those for my robot :D | 03:30 |
| dmj726 | ah...well that sounds useful for simple robotics projects | 03:30 |
| * dmj726 remembers how challenging it was to get a robot to find and calculate position relative to a green light. | 03:30 | |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.st.com/stonline/stappl/cms/press/news/year2007/p2120.htm | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ah yes | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | dmj726: It's not really very. You need to read all the image out in 1/30th of a second or so - so it's not so easy | 03:31 |
| CoreFusion- | haha, lucky me that our robot project was in the end very simple | 03:31 |
| SpeedEvil | The camera delivers best-in-class, 30 frames per second UXGA-resolution output, for fast image capture, using an on-chip hardware M-JPEG (Motion - Joint Photographic Experts Group) encoder, or 15 fps YUV (Luminance-Bandwidth-Chrominance) output with no compression | 03:32 |
| dmj726 | 6 weeks is a short time to design and build a 150 lb/78 lb robot | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | All in 8*8*4.5mm | 03:32 |
| mdaum | We should get a whole bag of those. | 03:33 |
| CoreFusion- | you have a picture of it? | 03:33 |
| CoreFusion- | dmj726: ? | 03:36 |
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| dmj726 | When I was in high school I started a FIRST Robotics team...they give you 6 weeks to build a bot. | 03:37 |
| CoreFusion- | do you have a picture of the robot you made? | 03:38 |
| dmj726 | let me see if I can find one | 03:38 |
| CoreFusion- | http://users.metropolia.fi/~tonila/Robot_wars/ << two pictures of our robot, 1 during building it and 1 in action ;) | 03:38 |
| CoreFusion- | it was remote controlled | 03:39 |
| mdaum | Corefusion: was it for sumo? | 03:39 |
| CoreFusion- | yeah | 03:40 |
| CoreFusion- | we dominated :P | 03:40 |
| dmj726 | it was half remote/half autonomous | 03:40 |
| mdaum | Sweet. | 03:40 |
| mdaum | Where? | 03:40 |
| CoreFusion- | I can look up a video of the match if you want? | 03:40 |
| mdaum | Oh yes. | 03:40 |
| CoreFusion- | At our shcool, Metropolia University, Helsinki, Finland | 03:41 |
| mdaum | Finland. Nokia. Maemo. It all becomes clear. | 03:41 |
| CoreFusion- | haha :P | 03:41 |
| dmj726 | I found a video clip showing us destroying the tether port | 03:43 |
| dmj726 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0skvsMGoVXY&feature=related | 03:43 |
| CoreFusion- | http://streams.evtek.fi/robo2.mpg it's quite big... | 03:44 |
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| dmj726 | url fails | 03:44 |
| CoreFusion- | that thing is huge | 03:44 |
| CoreFusion- | oh? | 03:44 |
| CoreFusion- | let me check | 03:44 |
| CoreFusion- | damn... it looks like they have removed it | 03:45 |
| dmj726 | I should mention that our huge spring-loaded ramps had to be removed since they put us 12 pounds over weight. | 03:46 |
| dmj726 | ...this weight issue somehow never got noticed | 03:46 |
| mdaum | I'm blinded by the lens cap! | 03:46 |
| CoreFusion- | http://streams.metropolia.fi/old/robo2.mpg | 03:47 |
| CoreFusion- | there | 03:47 |
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| dmj726 | "CoreFusion-: that thing is huge" which bot were you referring to? | 03:47 |
| CoreFusion- | dmj726: the one you linked in youtube | 03:47 |
| dmj726 | Yeah...it's pretty big | 03:48 |
| dmj726 | We were pretty inexperienced that year | 03:48 |
| dmj726 | ...and our tool selection was limited too. | 03:48 |
| CoreFusion- | did you get the dl started for the video i linked? | 03:48 |
| dmj726 | Our bread and butter tool was a reciprocating saw | 03:49 |
| CoreFusion- | :) | 03:49 |
| dmj726 | yeah...taking a while to download | 03:50 |
| CoreFusion- | It's the school's server so they should have a decent upload | 03:50 |
| dmj726 | 150 ish KBps | 03:50 |
| dmj726 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JytKDmDjteU | 03:51 |
| dmj726 | a match | 03:51 |
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| CoreFusion- | what was the weight limit on those? | 03:52 |
| dmj726 | 120 pounds | 03:52 |
| CoreFusion- | like I said.. huge :P compared to ours :D | 03:52 |
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| dmj726 | I haven't seen yours yet :P | 03:52 |
| dmj726 | would you believe that it's hard to keep a robot to 120 pounds? | 03:53 |
| CoreFusion- | haha, depends what it has to do? | 03:53 |
| dmj726 | Teams routinely drill holes everywhere possible to shave off 2-3 pounds | 03:54 |
| dmj726 | or weld to avoid the extra weight of the nuts and bolts | 03:54 |
| CoreFusion- | what kind of motors did you have to move it around? | 03:56 |
| CoreFusion- | We had two motors from a small srewdriwer :D one had about 3 newtons torque... :D | 03:57 |
| dmj726 | the drive system was a pair of 2.5" CIM motors | 03:58 |
| dmj726 | there were other motors and the arm was pneumatic | 03:58 |
| CoreFusion- | how much left? | 03:58 |
| dmj726 | how many motors left? | 03:58 |
| CoreFusion- | no... the dl | 03:59 |
| dmj726 | one minute | 03:59 |
| CoreFusion- | k | 03:59 |
| dmj726 | We had several motors that we didn't use though. | 03:59 |
| dmj726 | that's a big file you sent there | 04:00 |
| CoreFusion- | yeah that's the video that the media-guys at school worked out of the tournament | 04:01 |
| dmj726 | those are the size of the practice tournaments in the preseason | 04:01 |
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| dmj726 | nice | 04:06 |
| CoreFusion- | thanks :) | 04:06 |
| dmj726 | very good acceleration | 04:06 |
| dmj726 | which was your bot? | 04:06 |
| CoreFusion- | Well it was the only one to use all 4 wheels, tho everyone had the same 2 motors | 04:07 |
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| CoreFusion- | the red/metallic one | 04:07 |
| dmj726 | you made the one with the curved snow plow? | 04:07 |
| CoreFusion- | yeah :D | 04:07 |
| dmj726 | It seemed to do nicely | 04:07 |
| dmj726 | Our bot couldn't score | 04:08 |
| CoreFusion- | there was 3 competition, 1 was a speedtest along a 5m track, one was a "tunign-show" as in the croud woted for the best looking and then there was that "Robot wars" | 04:08 |
| dmj726 | However, we managed to win all but two matches in the qualification rounds | 04:08 |
| CoreFusion- | gj! | 04:08 |
| dmj726 | Turns out our robot was an amazing defense bot | 04:09 |
| CoreFusion- | we aimed to win the wars from the beginning, didn't really bother with the others :P | 04:09 |
| CoreFusion- | we came second in the speed test but that was just bad luck | 04:09 |
| dmj726 | one of the matches we didn't win was a 0-0 tie since nobody on our team could score and we managed to prevent the entire other team (which could) from scoring | 04:10 |
| CoreFusion- | there was 3 runs, the team that won had times: 4,8/12/16 seconds... on lucky run | 04:10 |
| CoreFusion- | our times were 5,4/5,0/4,9 | 04:10 |
| dmj726 | very consistent | 04:11 |
| CoreFusion- | indeed | 04:11 |
| CoreFusion- | it was fun building it! :D | 04:12 |
| dmj726 | The strange thing was everybody else thought that our bot shouldn't have worked at all as a defense bot, since (once the ramps were removed) we were about 40 pounds lighter than everyone else | 04:12 |
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| CoreFusion- | 40 punds makes a hell of a difference in how much force you can project forward | 04:13 |
| CoreFusion- | pounds* | 04:13 |
| dmj726 | We suspect that our lack of padded bumpers resulted in lifting the other bot up for a spit second every time we rammed them, since we were pushing bots around that had way more powerful motors. | 04:14 |
| CoreFusion- | oh you didn't all have the same motors?? | 04:14 |
| dmj726 | ...we couldn't push them continuously but could drive them back by repeatedly ramming. | 04:14 |
| dmj726 | We used 2 motors, others had 4 | 04:14 |
| CoreFusion- | we all had the same starting pieces so to speak | 04:15 |
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| dmj726 | We all had the same set of parts, but you had the option to buy 2 additional motors of that same kind | 04:15 |
| CoreFusion- | how big budget did you have? | 04:16 |
| dmj726 | $6,000 got you into one regional and the kit of parts | 04:16 |
| CoreFusion- | O.o | 04:16 |
| dmj726 | you could put up to $3,500 of additional parts on the robot | 04:16 |
| CoreFusion- | we got the motors and the battery for free and then the school gave every team 20 euros :P | 04:17 |
| dmj726 | we didn't spend nearly that much on extra stuff | 04:17 |
| CoreFusion- | we did spend about 150 euros of our own money to it tho | 04:17 |
| CoreFusion- | but less than 200 euros on total | 04:17 |
| CoreFusion- | :D | 04:17 |
| dmj726 | (mostly on nuts, bolts, lexan, and aluminum angle bars | 04:17 |
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| CoreFusion- | As much as I enjoy talking about this, I really have to get some sleep now, it's already 4 in the morning here... lol :P | 04:19 |
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| dmj726 | in retrospect, it might have been a good move to buy handcuffs to attach a meterstick to certain members' arms. | 04:19 |
| dmj726 | good night | 04:19 |
| CoreFusion- | haha, nn | 04:19 |
| dmj726 | the robot got nicknamed "eyeball" | 04:19 |
| dmj726 | due to the precise measuring methods | 04:20 |
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| infobot | I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn bootlicking bot. | 04:26 |
| RXrenesis8 | If I told you amazon has already given me a tracking number on my n900 you would all murder me? [Y/N] | 04:26 |
| dmj726 | Not if you hand it over to me :P | 04:27 |
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| RXrenesis8 | Lies! | 04:28 |
| dmj726 | infobot want a transistor? | 04:28 |
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| microlith | RXrenesis8: I'll be very sad at Nokia's incompetence at least :/ | 04:44 |
| v2px | hmm.. want to play a game? | 04:45 |
| RXrenesis8 | microlith: just so long as murder's not on the menu | 04:45 |
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| v2px | bashian roulette: [ $(($RANDOM%10)) -eq 0 ] && rm -rf / | 04:45 |
| microlith | v2px: that's a very dirty game | 04:46 |
| fernando_ | lol | 04:46 |
| dmj726 | that needs sudo | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | RXrenesis8, murder is always on the menu. | 04:46 |
| v2px | uh | 04:46 |
| luke-jr | v2px: worst case you get an error | 04:47 |
| v2px | i just noticed:/ | 04:47 |
| luke-jr | rm: cannot remove root directory `/' | 04:48 |
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| v2px | hmm.. rm -rf /*? ;p | 04:48 |
| v2px | without the '?' ofc | 04:48 |
| microlith | work it out in a vmware image if you so desire to know :) | 04:49 |
| v2px | updated version: [ $(($RANDOM%10)) -eq 0 ] && sudo rm -rf /* | 04:50 |
| v2px | please upgrade | 04:50 |
| v2px | :) | 04:50 |
| * v2px hides | 04:51 | |
| dmj726 | can you port this to the iphone? | 04:51 |
| v2px | hehe | 04:51 |
| dmj726 | you know...to liberate it | 04:51 |
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| lcukn900 | tracy is gonna kill me | 05:04 |
| lcukn900 | rly kill me. the laptoois dead says fan error | 05:06 |
| lcukn900 | its her laptop | 05:06 |
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| Firebird | dust chunk? | 05:10 |
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| lcukn900 | -ping | 05:11 |
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| lcukn900 | firebird thats what im hoping | 05:15 |
| lcukn900 | but it was working when i left house | 05:15 |
| dmj726 | just open up the device and take a look | 05:15 |
| lcukn900 | when i arrived at hotel it was doin this | 05:15 |
| lcukn900 | yeah ive just nit had this ever. and it couldnt have come at the wring time | 05:16 |
| lcukn900 | i just spent a day n a bit getting it working | 05:17 |
| lcukn900 | excuse typing n900 + beer isnt great combination | 05:18 |
| dmj726 | use an iphone...made for the mentally impaired | 05:18 |
| lcukn900 | but i cant draw with iphone | 05:19 |
| lcukn900 | i am more refined and use a pen | 05:19 |
| dmj726 | ...then get apple to provide a resistive iphone! | 05:19 |
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| lcukn900 | i believe the newton was | 05:20 |
| dmj726 | now introducing...the newton 3gs | 05:20 |
| lcukn900 | i have 3.5g here | 05:21 |
| dmj726 | wait, you mean the iphone isn't 3.5 g? | 05:21 |
| lcukn900 | and the nokia is more open | 05:21 |
| lcukn900 | 3.5g network | 05:21 |
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| lcukn900 | whatever that means | 05:21 |
| dmj726 | I'm far more interested in in the n900 than any apple device | 05:21 |
| lcukn900 | nod | 05:22 |
| lcukn900 | it would be interesting to see maemo on apple hw tho | 05:22 |
| dmj726 | I'm up for having maemo spread to more hw | 05:23 |
| lcukn900 | for that matter. it should be viable on any android hw too | 05:23 |
| dmj726 | Maedroid? | 05:23 |
| lcukn900 | heh | 05:23 |
| luke-jr | lcukn900: that would be true if Android and Maemo were both really open as they advertise | 05:24 |
| luke-jr | but neither are, so mostly hopeless :p | 05:24 |
| * lcukn900 would like to see nokia devices come ouy of the box with a choice; maemo or symbian | 05:24 | |
| * luke-jr would prefer to see devices come out of the box blank, with source code and hardware documentation on a CD | 05:25 | |
| lcukn900 | bah luke, at leat in maemo the toolkit choice is left to the implimentor | 05:25 |
| luke-jr | lcukn900: huh? | 05:25 |
| luke-jr | Maemo is a specific combination of software. | 05:25 |
| lcukn900 | android ui = whatever java thing, iphone ui = whatever apple thing, maemo ui = gtk=qt=enlightenment,dos,liq* etc | 05:27 |
| lcukn900 | x11 | 05:27 |
| luke-jr | lcukn900: if you changed Maemo from Hildon, it would no longer be Maemo | 05:28 |
| lcukn900 | but you can run non hildon apps happily | 05:29 |
| luke-jr | you can? :) | 05:29 |
| luke-jr | last I checked Maemo abused the RAM too much to make running other apps practical | 05:29 |
| luke-jr | :p | 05:29 |
| lcukn900 | better than any other platform | 05:30 |
| lcukn900 | feasible | 05:30 |
| lcukn900 | its impossible realistically on other devices | 05:30 |
| luke-jr | KDE 4 + Arora performs better than Maemo :p | 05:30 |
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| lcukn900 | kde runs on maemo | 05:30 |
| lcukn900 | whats the last gtk app you saw running on iphone | 05:31 |
| luke-jr | I've never seen an iphone period. | 05:31 |
| luke-jr | and I don't see what any of this has to do with putting Maemo on Android devices | 05:32 |
| lcukn900 | maemo os on other devices is a good thing | 05:33 |
| lcukn900 | most likely will be mer but you get the idea | 05:33 |
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| antonf | hi all, I did not find a way to checkout the source code of maemo in maemo.org, is maemo source opened currently ? | 05:53 |
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| luke-jr | antonf: Maemo has never been open. Only sub-components thereof are. | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | those components are scattered | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | Nokia-originating ones are probably either on gitorious or maemo garage | 06:02 |
| antonf | sigh, that's breaking GPL | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | antonf: GPL does not infect mere aggregation. | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | Nokia is to my knowledge currently in compliance with the GPL. | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | I'm relatively sure they have source packages the same place their binaries are. | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | but usually when you want source, you want access to the SCM | 06:03 |
| luke-jr | http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/pool/diablo/user/source/\ | 06:05 |
| luke-jr | not sure where you'd find fremantle src pkgs | 06:05 |
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| antonf | luke-jr, ok, understand, thanks. | 06:12 |
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| microlith | someone needs to scrub t.m.o with fire | 06:18 |
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| * CoreFusion- decided to stay up through the night to correct his day-night-rythm... | 06:39 | |
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| luke-jr | lol | 06:52 |
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| sp3000 | hmm, is it a sign that your stomach doesn't like something when you lose it on the wall | 07:13 |
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| sp3000 | I could be mistaken, it might be just jomping for joy | 07:15 |
| sp3000 | jumping even | 07:15 |
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| sp3000 | how annoying | 07:15 |
| dmj726 | What do people think of the chances for adding feautres to the default camera app? | 07:18 |
| ShadowJK | slim :) | 07:18 |
| dmj726 | hmm...think it would be better to produce an alternative camera app? | 07:20 |
| dmj726 | alternative/supplemental | 07:20 |
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| luke-jr | dmj726: so do it | 07:42 |
| luke-jr | it's just v4l2 after all | 07:42 |
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| dmj726 | I'm kinda thinking of doing it. | 07:49 |
| dmj726 | Though I am a bit concerned about putting my finger in too many pots. | 07:49 |
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| shuduo | hi, anyone know where is libprofile-dev's source code or it is not an open source package? | 08:00 |
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| mfinkle | anyone find gdb-server for maemo 5? | 08:04 |
| mfinkle | so I can run it on device | 08:04 |
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| johnx | dmj726, why not adapt one of the maemo4 camera apps? | 08:05 |
| johnx | example code + mostly written UI = win? | 08:06 |
| dmj726 | didn't know those exist | 08:06 |
| johnx | off the top of my head: "camera" and "gps camera" and "video camera" :) | 08:06 |
| johnx | (not exact names, void where prohibited) | 08:06 |
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| dmj726 | hmm... | 08:10 |
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| recalcati__ | good morning | 08:12 |
| johnx | mornin' recalcati__ | 08:13 |
| recalcati__ | hi johnx: could be nice, only for testing purspose, using 89ccbd14fe8c0e6b0fefcca2151da28d98088bf5 ? | 08:13 |
| recalcati__ | I need linux input event | 08:13 |
| dmj726 | just see the one gps-camera | 08:13 |
| johnx | recalcati__, sorry. I don't understand... | 08:14 |
| recalcati__ | I could port linux input event from 4.6 stable to 4.5.2, but, if it is stable enough, I jump to 89ccbd14fe8c0e6b0fefcca2151da28d98088bf5 | 08:14 |
| recalcati__ | git://gitorious.org/qt/qt.git | 08:14 |
| johnx | I don't know any Qt, so I don't know | 08:15 |
| johnx | dmj726, here's videocamera: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/camera/ | 08:16 |
| johnx | this may also be interesting: https://garage.maemo.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=103 | 08:17 |
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| tekojo | morning! | 08:25 |
| johnx | allo | 08:26 |
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| johnx | coming from work today it's readily apparent why open source software has the potential to be better than closed source/proprietary code | 08:31 |
| fernando_ | once again open source saved the day? | 08:31 |
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| johnx | nah, it's just that after seeing this PHP someone had written and trying to make a (really!) minor tweak, it was immediately apparent that if this ever got in front of a group of 10 or so people, someone would rewrite it out of pity | 08:33 |
| dmj726 | open source saving the day is risking becoming passe to me...since it's becoming an everyday occurence. | 08:33 |
| dmj726 | Yeah, I've heard horror stories about the things that happen in closed projects | 08:33 |
| johnx | I know a better way to do the needed task in *bash* than was done in PHP with the assistance of several support libraries | 08:34 |
| johnx | to generalize a bit: if you had 4 different potential email messages to send, each with an HTML version and a text version, would you pull the message in from a .html file on the system? or would you directly assign it to a variable inside the php script itself? | 08:35 |
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| dmj726 | How about 400 consecutive if statements? | 08:53 |
| * RST38h facepalms at PHP coders. | 08:53 | |
| dmj726 | actually those were in Visual Basic | 08:54 |
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| johnx | RST38h, there's one in particular. :) impressively, he actually makes a much better manager than a programmer and managed to hire two good PHP programmers and get out of the role himself :) | 08:55 |
| dmj726 | good for him | 08:56 |
| johnx | good for me too, who occasionally ends up poking at bugs in the codebase. From what I can tell, the thing I was looking at today is older than our SVN repository | 08:57 |
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| Chani | wow | 08:58 |
| dmj726 | I heard stories of coders on proprietary projects hacking around the vcs commit system to avoid code review | 08:58 |
| RST38h | johnx: That is not surprising | 08:58 |
| RST38h | johnx: A lot of managers are like that. As long as they are smart enough not to go into technical details deep enough, they are ok | 08:59 |
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| johnx | RST38h, yup. he's also gotten better at programing over the years, and it's crazy to think he was doing the job of our whole IT/development staff on his own for quite a while...but some of that old code is still ... uhm... very creative | 09:01 |
| johnx | dmj726, not much formal review here. that would require specs and someone to spend time reviewing the code | 09:02 |
| dmj726 | this was a major project, dealing with a lot of low level system internals | 09:03 |
| johnx | low level VB? let me guess: did it have inline assembly? | 09:04 |
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| dmj726 | Two separate stories. Apparently the programmer in question ended up destroying their svn in the process. | 09:04 |
| * dmj726 did the 400 if statements when he was very young. | 09:05 | |
| dmj726 | ...there were also many other horror stories about bad programming practices in this organization. | 09:06 |
| dmj726 | ...most of which I have never seen in any FOSS project I've been involved in. | 09:06 |
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| johnx | even when the incentive is there in FOSS projects, there are a lot of eyes looking at code (if the project is big enough) | 09:07 |
| dmj726 | Yeah, even the one man projects have a little more incentive to have good code | 09:09 |
| johnx | self imposed deadlines, passion to begin with, pride/embarassment | 09:09 |
| dmj726 | I certainly wouldn't open source my earliest code for that reason. | 09:10 |
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| dmj726 | Of course my current code is far better :) | 09:16 |
| johnx | I should replace that hunk of php with some bash that does the same thing :> | 09:16 |
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| Myrtti | meh | 09:45 |
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| lardman | morning | 09:46 |
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| lardman | is gst_camerabin in one of the repos somewhere? | 09:49 |
| lardman | hmm, plugins bad perhaps | 09:49 |
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| lardman | hmm, pkg-config for gstreamer-0.10 doesn't supply any -L data..... | 09:59 |
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| lardman | ah, I need to choose gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 | 10:00 |
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| lardman | aargh, why does pkg-config --libs gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 not supply a -L path at all!? | 10:08 |
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| lardman | hmm, what is the standard method of getting an app to use a library which is apparently not in LD_LIBRARY_PATH? | 10:22 |
| lardman | e.g. one which is in /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ | 10:22 |
| ensi | shouldnt LD_LIBRARY_PATH address that exactly? | 10:23 |
| ensi | i.e. libraries in non-standard locations | 10:23 |
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| lardman | dunno, perhaps | 10:25 |
| lardman | but then I'd need to call my binary from a script | 10:25 |
| lardman | I can't believe all gst apps have this problem, really | 10:27 |
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| ensi | you have plugins in this path? | 10:29 |
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| ensi | i have done work with gstreamer but it was few years ago already so i've forgotten most of it already which is a shame because Gstreamer is one of the saner frameworks on linux | 10:29 |
| ensi | but iirc you can pass a path to the library when dealing with gstreamer | 10:29 |
| lardman | yeah all the plugins are installed in that path, with not many symlinked into /use/lib | 10:31 |
| lardman | so to compiled, curiously, I have to explicitly supply that path to the linker (I think the pkg-config file ought to do that really) | 10:31 |
| lardman | but at run time they are not found | 10:32 |
| ensi | what are you doing? | 10:32 |
| ensi | try something like | 10:32 |
| lardman | packaging up my barcode scanner | 10:32 |
| ensi | gst-inspect /opt/mypath/somelib.so | 10:32 |
| lardman | I know the plugins are valid as I can link against them | 10:33 |
| lardman | I'm using them rather than writing one | 10:33 |
| ensi | you link against plugins? | 10:33 |
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| ensi | are you writing an application? | 10:34 |
| lardman | yes, this is an application | 10:34 |
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| lardman | which uses the camera | 10:34 |
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| lardman | morning tekojo | 10:36 |
| tekojo | morning lardman | 10:36 |
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| tekojo | flaky wlan here, apparently threw me out while I was having coffee | 10:36 |
| lardman | :) | 10:37 |
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| lardman | hmm, so if I start my app from a shell script, so I can alter LD_LIBRARY_PATH so that the gst plugins can be found, does that break the taskbar, etc., as the names in the .desktop file, etc., don't match any more | 10:43 |
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| tekojo | lardman what are you trying now? | 10:44 |
| lardman | just trying to get mbarcode packaged up and in the repo | 10:44 |
| lardman | but not having much luck with it finding the gstreamer plugins | 10:45 |
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| tekojo | do you really need to alter path? | 10:45 |
| lardman | previously I was linking against libgdigicam, but that's apparently not available in the repo and I didn't want to push it myself | 10:45 |
| lardman | tekojo: the plugins live in /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ | 10:45 |
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| tekojo | libdigicam not available? need to check up on that (or danielwilms could do that :-) | 10:47 |
| lardman | it's on the devices, but not visible in any of the repos I can see | 10:47 |
| lardman | morning danielwilms | 10:48 |
| danielwilms | morning lardman | 10:48 |
| danielwilms | give me a moment...I will check that | 10:48 |
| lardman | thanks | 10:49 |
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| danielwilms | lardman, right now the binaries gdigicam are not part of the SDK but you could build it with the sources...there is a good chance that we could add the binaries too...I will let you know | 10:58 |
| ensi | lardman: but you dont need to link against the plugins, just gst framework :) | 10:58 |
| danielwilms | *could add it to the binaries | 10:58 |
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| lardman | I've built it from git, but if I want to push mbarcode to extras-devel, I'll need it available somewhere | 10:58 |
| danielwilms | ahh ok | 10:59 |
| lardman | ensi: yeah, but I do need to link against the plugin otherwise I get undefined symbol errors | 10:59 |
| lardman | danielwilms: is there any reason it's not in the repo? It is on the devices after all | 11:00 |
| ensi | lardman: umh, i dont get this. you're writing an application, you cannot (or are not supposed) to access the plugin directly via its internal interface :p | 11:00 |
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| lardman | ensi: hmm, I need to use the photography interface, so I presumed I should link against the camerabin plugin which provides the fn in question. I so also link against the main gstreamer lib as I use that too | 11:01 |
| rektide | whats hte open source maemo5 called again? | 11:01 |
| lardman | ~mer | 11:01 |
| infobot | well, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer | 11:01 |
| rektide | some effort to bootstrap maemo using | 11:01 |
| rektide | yes | 11:01 |
| danielwilms | lardman I'm trying to figure out, what the reason is, why it is not in there...might be just a mistake, then we will add it there... | 11:01 |
| rektide | that | 11:01 |
| lardman | danielwilms: cool, thanks | 11:02 |
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| wazd | heya all | 11:06 |
| lardman | hey wazd | 11:07 |
| alterego | facebook plugin for XBox is a bit naff. | 11:07 |
| alterego | And it's a shame the last.fm plugin isn't capable of playuing music whilst you're doing other stuff. | 11:07 |
| johnx | also naff: they dropped the price used "banned" xboxes through the floor ... but it's also impossible to run homebrew on the consoles those same consoles that have the latest kernel :| | 11:08 |
| alterego | Poor design :( | 11:08 |
| alterego | johnx: yeah, that's a bit crap. | 11:08 |
| alterego | Can you not clone the drives some how? | 11:08 |
| johnx | I think the kernel is in firmware this time | 11:08 |
| alterego | Ah, right. | 11:08 |
| johnx | (also: WTH was I trying to type up there?!) | 11:09 |
| lardman | johnx: in rom iirc from mgedmin's post yesterday | 11:09 |
| dmj726 | what's the point of a device with no homebrew? | 11:09 |
| alterego | That thought did just occur to me, still, I'm happy with my XBox just running as it's supposed to. | 11:09 |
| alterego | I see little point in turning it into a linux workstation as my workstation is sitting right next to it ^.^ | 11:09 |
| johnx | my wii doesn't have quite the amount of kick I'd like it to have under linux | 11:09 |
| dmj726 | particularly one with no homebrew and no networking | 11:09 |
| lardman | johnx: did you read that wikipedia article on 17 ways MS went wrong with xbox security? | 11:09 |
| johnx | I'd love to run canola and use a wiimote on a decent tv connected machine | 11:09 |
| johnx | lardman, the first xbox, right? | 11:10 |
| lardman | yeah | 11:10 |
| lardman | you talking 360? | 11:10 |
| johnx | yeah | 11:10 |
| johnx | they just banned a whole bunch of modded consoles, and apparently they're going used for like $40 USD | 11:11 |
| lardman | oh wow | 11:11 |
| lardman | is the mod not reversible then? | 11:11 |
| johnx | the mod may be reversible, but the banning is not | 11:11 |
| lardman | ah right | 11:11 |
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| johnx | or rather, the circumstances under which you could get around the ban are pretty crazy | 11:12 |
| dmj726 | ...banning consoles is pretty harsh | 11:12 |
| dmj726 | ...hmm | 11:12 |
| dmj726 | You know what would be a great hack? | 11:12 |
| dmj726 | Take all those modded consoles and build a service they could connect to. | 11:13 |
| alterego | Yeah, policing hackers should be by a crack squad of FBI agents :) | 11:13 |
| lardman | ah, look at the time, got to go to work, bbiab | 11:13 |
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| johnx | the ban I'm fine with, strangely. the not allowing homebrew (even if it means giving up your privilege to connect to live) is more annoying | 11:14 |
| dmj726 | ...and provide games and so forth that would run on the modded consoles for that network. | 11:14 |
| johnx | yeah, but again: no homebrew | 11:14 |
| johnx | need that as the first stepping stone. without it, grander dreams are just that | 11:14 |
| dmj726 | ...not with the default OS | 11:15 |
| johnx | er, wait, so you want to make licensed games that people with modded consoles could buy? | 11:15 |
| dmj726 | either buy or get free, probably a mix | 11:15 |
| dmj726 | wait a minute...this isn't an original concept | 11:16 |
| johnx | not 100% sure on this, but doesn't all xbox360 inet multiplayer stuff happen through live? | 11:16 |
| dmj726 | yes | 11:16 |
| johnx | so, the first step is homebrew | 11:16 |
| dmj726 | And I just realized where I got that idea | 11:16 |
| dmj726 | It's the xnet | 11:17 |
| dmj726 | from Cory Doctorow's little brother. | 11:17 |
| dmj726 | that being the title | 11:17 |
| johnx | there's been lots of similar ideas before as well | 11:17 |
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| alterego | The N900 isn't on Amazon.co.uk | 11:18 |
| dmj726 | WoG on xbox 360 anyone? | 11:18 |
| dmj726 | Can you install Linux on the 360? | 11:19 |
| johnx | dmj726, nope. the summer update blocks homebrew | 11:19 |
| johnx | that's what I was lamenting earlier :) | 11:19 |
| dmj726 | oh...so you can't even wipe it completely? | 11:19 |
| johnx | "wipe" it? | 11:20 |
| dmj726 | overright the OS? | 11:20 |
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| johnx | it keeps the kernel and 1st bootloader in flash ROM, if I understand the situation correctly | 11:20 |
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| dmj726 | so it's impossible to overwrite the bootloader? | 11:21 |
| johnx | there isn't a known method right now that's available even to reasonably competent hackers it seems | 11:21 |
| johnx | even the old method involved soldering it seems | 11:22 |
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| dmj726 | hrm... | 11:22 |
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| johnx | http://www.free60.org/JTAG_Hack | 11:22 |
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| dmj726 | hmm...makes me want the 360 less than I already did. | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | get a wiimote, a n900 and drnoksnes :P | 11:29 |
| dmj726 | would have been nice to get 600,000 potential linux consoles | 11:29 |
| alterego | I'm trying to think of extra hardware, in relation to the N900, that would make it my ultimate dream device. | 11:30 |
| alterego | But even the lack of USB host mode doesn't bother me. | 11:30 |
| alterego | I'm not sure I can think of anything. | 11:30 |
| dmj726 | usb host would be handy on occasion | 11:30 |
| johnx | my list is surprisingly short as well | 11:30 |
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| dmj726 | wouldn't mind slightly larger screen | 11:30 |
| alterego | I was thinking about an inbuilt projector, but really, I don't think that's a particularly important feature. | 11:31 |
| dmj726 | more portrait mode | 11:31 |
| johnx | I wouldn't mind one, but I'm pretty happy in the 3.5" - 4" range | 11:31 |
| alterego | Well, that's software ;) | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | i still wonder if the usb host bits (not otg) are cut or not | 11:31 |
| dmj726 | projector would be cool, but would drain battery and take up lost of space | 11:31 |
| alterego | Yeah, I think having an external projector, which is easily done now, is the best option. | 11:31 |
| dmj726 | I wouldn't want much more than 4" | 11:31 |
| johnx | anyone tried host with 42-11 yet? | 11:31 |
| tigert | built in projector would suck for using the device | 11:32 |
| tigert | you'd shake the projected pic way too easily | 11:32 |
| dmj726 | ...yeah separate projector is better | 11:32 |
| tigert | yep | 11:33 |
| tigert | as cool as it would be :) | 11:33 |
| dmj726 | component/vga/dvi/inset better display out would be nice. | 11:33 |
| alterego | Yeah, though, about 6 years ago,m when I wasw dreaming of devices like this, my dream device had an inbuilt projector that auto corrected the aspect ratio depending on distance of two of the corners of the projected image, using laser distance measuring equipment :) | 11:33 |
| alterego | HDMI out would be nice. | 11:33 |
| dmj726 | number row for keyboard | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | hdmi is just so huge.. not sure where i would fit it on a n900 | 11:34 |
| alterego | dmj726: software? :) | 11:34 |
| dmj726 | portrait virt keybd that showed half the screen | 11:34 |
| alterego | Stskeeps: sure, some proprietary connector of course ;) | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind seeing a sdio docking station or something | 11:35 |
| dmj726 | yeah, and bundle a special cable with it. | 11:35 |
| alterego | But the OMAP in the N900 is perfectly capable of HDMI so I don't understand why they didn't do it, it'd be the killer feature that they've never done before. | 11:35 |
| alterego | A natural evolution from the bad quality svideo connectivit | 11:36 |
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| tbf | alterego: not sure if the OMAP has the horse power to decode HDMI quality video | 11:36 |
| tbf | but i am no CPU geek. | 11:37 |
| alterego | Maybe not, but you can still limit the resolution, sap, 720 or something. | 11:37 |
| lcukn900 | hey guys, n810 question. how do i stop maps from holding screen lit? | 11:37 |
| dmj726 | 720 would be sweet | 11:37 |
| alterego | Anything would be better than PAL/NTSC resolution :P | 11:37 |
| alterego | Especially when playing "Bounce: Evolution" ;) | 11:38 |
| johnx | alterego, IIRC, the omap3 has one hi-res digital out and one lower res tv-out | 11:38 |
| alterego | Has anyone started working on any augmented reawlity apps for the N900 yet>? | 11:38 |
| lcukn900 | the tvout at 800x480 is pretty damn sweet | 11:38 |
| alterego | johnx: exactly, | 11:38 |
| lcukn900 | is there a digital out on the n900? | 11:38 |
| alterego | GPS+Streetview+stuff | 11:38 |
| dmj726 | no digital video out | 11:39 |
| lcukn900 | so end of discussion lol? | 11:39 |
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| alterego | lcukn900: I was just bringing up a few of my hardware requests ;) | 11:39 |
| dmj726 | I don't care about improved resolution output as much as connectivity to computer monitors | 11:39 |
| lcukn900 | ahhh i want a flying car n900 version | 11:39 |
| tbf | lcukn900: i am also satisfied with the analog output's quality. but well, i still only have an analog tv... | 11:39 |
| florian | good morning | 11:39 |
| johnx | lcukn900, yeah, hooks up to the LCD :P | 11:40 |
| alterego | I think HDMI/DVI output would be the only one, and, to me, it's annoying because the device is capable of doing it, I can't see why they didn't just throw it in. | 11:40 |
| tbf | ...PAL looks too horrible on LCD tv | 11:40 |
| lcukn900 | lol | 11:40 |
| tigert | Stskeeps: hdmi has a mini connector type too | 11:40 |
| dmj726 | I don't have an analog tv anymore | 11:40 |
| dmj726 | wait...there's on in the corner of the room. | 11:40 |
| tbf | dmj726: poor guy | 11:40 |
| lcukn900 | i see my n810 has finally gone dark i can walk now | 11:40 |
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| dmj726 | *one | 11:40 |
| alterego | I might buy a beagle board, just to act as a streaming server for the N900 ;) | 11:40 |
| dmj726 | ...I don't really use the TV in the dorm anymore | 11:40 |
| tbf | dmj726: well, maybe you are watching DVDs, or something :-) | 11:40 |
| tigert | alterego: there are a lot of things that could be "thrown in" but all that requires work and testing and sweat | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | tigert: ah, didn't know that | 11:41 |
| alterego | Media renderer I mean .. | 11:41 |
| dmj726 | The computer screen is more useful | 11:41 |
| dmj726 | ...and bigger | 11:41 |
| tigert | even the tv-out on my N900 is fun and useful | 11:41 |
| tigert | like for playing videos pulled from youtube | 11:41 |
| tigert | or playing youtube directly of course :) | 11:42 |
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| dmj726 | Hmmm...I wonder if one can output to VGA somehow | 11:42 |
| tigert | and for viewing photos etc | 11:42 |
| dmj726 | my monitor does have that. | 11:42 |
| alterego | So, I'll buy a beagle board, maybe get someone to get me it for Christmas *winks at General Antilles" and build a portable HD capable UPnP media renderer for plugging into HD TV's. | 11:42 |
| tbf | tigert: yup. | 11:42 |
| alterego | Then the N900 can stream to the Beagle and I have what I want ::) | 11:42 |
| johnx | alterego, was thinking along similar lines, but I think it'd be pressed right up the max decoding some high bitrate 1280x720 stuff | 11:43 |
| alterego | Yer | 11:43 |
| lcukn900 | ewww new feature on nOVER9000 tigert sweat tray just like a george foreman grill | 11:43 |
| alterego | Heh | 11:43 |
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| alterego | Power consumption is becoming a major concern in my house though, laptop+workstation+TV+xbox-360 | 11:44 |
| alterego | I want to cut out the workstation for watching video by using a beagle board and the N900 | 11:44 |
| dmj726 | ...same here...all the old boxen still in service | 11:44 |
| IcanCU | does the n900 have a front camera then can be used for video chat on skype or google talk? | 11:44 |
| alterego | The XBox is only on when I'm playing it, so I don't realy care about that. | 11:44 |
| alterego | IcanCU: yes | 11:44 |
| IcanCU | does it work well? | 11:45 |
| alterego | WEcanCU too! | 11:45 |
| RST38h | lcuk: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/11/500x_baconsunrise.jpg | 11:45 |
| frals | lol | 11:45 |
| * GeneralAntilles yawns loudly. | 11:45 | |
| alterego | IcanCU: no idea, comparable quality to all the other Nokia front mount cameras I'd imagine. | 11:45 |
| RST38h | alterego: disconnect AC, heater, stove, laundry, and dishwasher | 11:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn I hate waking up early for no reason. | 11:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, why am I buying you a Beagle? :P | 11:45 |
| RST38h | alterego: Then you can watch TV in peace =) | 11:45 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: because you love me :) | 11:45 |
| IcanCU | well i have an e71 but i wouldn't know how to use it | 11:46 |
| IcanCU | nor have i seen it being used | 11:46 |
| alterego | RST38h: was that a joke about me dying? "TIP" ? ;) | 11:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, there's no denying that, but you may have to settle for flowers and chocolate. :D | 11:46 |
| IcanCU | the front camera i mean | 11:46 |
| alterego | IcanCU: fire up the camera application and get it to switch to the "secondary" camera. | 11:46 |
| alterego | Hah | 11:46 |
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| lcukn900 | off2underground | 11:47 |
| IcanCU | sure but it won't work with skype or google talk | 11:47 |
| lcukn900 | damn chan | 11:47 |
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| IcanCU | oh well | 11:47 |
| alterego | My life is so painful right now, I'm having to code ActiveX/COM/DirectShow efilters :S | 11:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Urg | 11:47 |
| dmj726 | that sounds awful | 11:47 |
| alterego | It's seriously stressing me out. | 11:47 |
| dmj726 | 3 things I don't want to touch with a ten foot pole | 11:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least you have your health. *g* | 11:48 |
| alterego | IT's not fun, | 11:48 |
| alterego | I don't feel healthy .. | 11:48 |
| johnx | alterego, is coding with an 11 foot pole difficult? | 11:48 |
| alterego | I feel super stressed. | 11:48 |
| * johnx was always curious | 11:48 | |
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| RST38h | alterego: Well, at least you will do so watching TV and playing games on your XBox =) | 11:48 |
| * RST38h cackles | 11:48 | |
| alterego | I might go visit the Dr, no sleep and constantly feeling like shit is not making me particularly productive. | 11:48 |
| alterego | Heh, yeah. | 11:48 |
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| dmj726 | Yeah...why are you using such awful tech? | 11:49 |
| alterego | Work, why do you think :/ | 11:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sucker for punishment. | 11:49 |
| alterego | My job is great, up until this point. | 11:49 |
| alterego | I'm hoping, they'll adopt my super-duper-gstreamer based camera control system when I've finished developing it. | 11:52 |
| alterego | Then I don't have to piss around with this crap anymore. | 11:52 |
| alterego | That and the demo I'm going to knock up on the N900 ;) | 11:52 |
| * GeneralAntilles loves all the people who doing Maemo demos at work. | 11:53 | |
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| alterego | :) | 11:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not enough to get them all Beagle Boards, however. *g* | 11:54 |
| alterego | Hahah :) | 11:54 |
| alterego | Awww :P | 11:54 |
| * johnx needs to demo his n900 at work actually | 11:55 | |
| alterego | Do you think they'll do a beagle with the new multi core cortex? | 11:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Good question for jkridner | 11:55 |
| wazd | learn maemo 5 and win n900 | 11:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd bet yes, but it's gonna be a while until OMAP4 is at that point. | 11:56 |
| frals | no screenprotector shipped with the n900 - new dealbreaker? | 11:56 |
| wazd | frals: sure! | 11:56 |
| dmj726 | buy one? | 11:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who's seen that 30 Rock episode? | 11:56 |
| wazd | frals: nokia's so cheap | 11:56 |
| frals | haha yeah | 11:56 |
| alterego | What? There is a screen protector on the N900 | 11:56 |
| ensi | talking about N900, how clean does the screen wipe with the cleaning cloth? At work i only got paper and its greacy as hell | 11:57 |
| range | alterego: Yeah, a black one. | 11:57 |
| alterego | O_o | 11:57 |
| wazd | alterego: it's opaque | 11:57 |
| alterego | Oh .. | 11:57 |
| alterego | And there's no protector under that protector? :) | 11:57 |
| alterego | Like with the N810? | 11:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just buy a Boxwave and be done with it. | 11:58 |
| dmj726 | wasn't the n810 one not supposed to be used as such? | 11:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | The clear plastic was never meant to be used as a protector anyway. | 11:58 |
| dmj726 | boxwave? link? | 11:58 |
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| lardman | re | 11:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.boxwave.com/products/cleartouch/index.htm | 11:58 |
| alterego | I figure, "Who cares, I'm gonna replace it in a year anyway" :P | 11:58 |
| lardman | so how were the beer last night? | 11:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | No N900 version out yet | 11:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | But probably soon. | 11:59 |
| dmj726 | oh | 11:59 |
| lardman | oh, no jeremiah :( | 11:59 |
| dmj726 | did you see the rubberized shell on ebay? | 11:59 |
| lardman | will have to wait till later for my debian challenge :) | 11:59 |
| dmj726 | 2 pieces | 11:59 |
| RST38h | alterego: Depending on how neat your are, you may well ruin it before the year is over =) | 11:59 |
| dmj726 | my devices tend to get pressed into service for at least 5 years. | 12:00 |
| RST38h | Besides, scratches are annoying, especially if you use it in places with bright spot lighting | 12:00 |
| dmj726 | my current phone is from 2004 :P | 12:01 |
| alterego | I'm pretty careful, | 12:01 |
| johnx | RST38h, bright lights? like the terrifying daystar? | 12:02 |
| dmj726 | haha | 12:02 |
| johnx | heh...though actually, not seeing too much of it these days around this area | 12:02 |
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| johnx | http://www.google.com/search?q=weather+in+seattle | 12:03 |
| danielwilms | hey lardman | 12:03 |
| danielwilms | dev-package should be there now | 12:03 |
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| RST38h | johnx: weirdly, sunlight does not apply =) | 12:06 |
| RST38h | johnx: Whatever these nokia guys have done, it manages to hide scratches pretty well in sunlight | 12:07 |
| johnx | works pretty well under flourescents, except at that "perfect" viewing angle | 12:07 |
| johnx | hasn't bothered me yet, and my n800 hasn't shown unreasonable screen wear either | 12:08 |
| RST38h | johnx: have got fluorescents right here, right now (bright ones though), scratches do show up | 12:08 |
| frals | http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/18/0051243 didnt know google gave the carrier adsplits :o | 12:08 |
| johnx | frals, yeah, read that a bit ago. isn't that crazy? | 12:08 |
| dmj726 | RST38h: you have scratches already? | 12:08 |
| RST38h | dmj726: yea, a few. It is way less easily scratched than some sites want you to believe | 12:09 |
| dmj726 | what did you do to it? | 12:09 |
| frals | its a pretty good business strategy i guess ^^ | 12:09 |
| RST38h | dmj726: But, having said that, steel keys will still do the job | 12:09 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 12:09 | |
| frals | seeing as the marke is exploding with android phones | 12:09 |
| RST38h | dmj726: Applied nails (using fingers is way unreliable) and the stylus | 12:09 |
| dmj726 | so way more scratchable than iThingy or Droid? | 12:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1447730&cid=30138598 | 12:10 |
| dmj726 | nails scratch it? | 12:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo needs more exposure | 12:10 |
| RST38h | dmj726: I have not used iPhone for long, and have not seend Droid yet | 12:10 |
| johnx | RST38h, pockets man! your pants should have two of them. categorize your items appropriately: things that scratch, things that can be scratched | 12:10 |
| RST38h | dmj726: not normally | 12:10 |
| dmj726 | keys got yours? | 12:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | dmj726, no, nails don't scratch it. | 12:10 |
| RST38h | johnx: got first scratches that way, bought a pouch | 12:10 |
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| RST38h | dmj726: I suspect sharp nail corners and (in one case) a stylus hit | 12:11 |
| RST38h | dmj726: One small comment about that my-symbian photo on tmo: | 12:11 |
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| alterego | I made a pouch out of an old wetsuit | 12:12 |
| RST38h | dmj726: When you apply nails to a dirty screen, they leave traces that LOOK like scratches | 12:12 |
| alterego | Nice black neoprene :) | 12:12 |
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| RST38h | urgh..could have just bought a camera pouch | 12:12 |
| dmj726 | ah...but those come off | 12:13 |
| dmj726 | As long as they don't scratch it, nails will be used on the screen a lot | 12:13 |
| dmj726 | You know the idiots who struggle with resistive. | 12:14 |
| johnx | dmj726, roofing nails? or ... ? ;) | 12:14 |
| dmj726 | Droid did not respond to my touch for at least the first 30 seconds. | 12:14 |
| dmj726 | finger nails ;) | 12:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | 10 penny | 12:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Reverse iPhone-finger! | 12:14 |
| johnx | I used my nails on the screen lots. I don't really believe they're made of a harder material than the stylus | 12:14 |
| dmj726 | Of course, I've not used either capacitive or resistive much | 12:15 |
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| dmj726 | but the finger nail is like a nice, mini stylus | 12:15 |
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| dmj726 | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/for-Nokia-N900-N-900-Black-Rubber-Hard-Cover-Skin-Case_W0QQitemZ110456672448QQcategoryZ20367QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D11%26ps%3D63 | 12:16 |
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| RST38h | dmj726: I still think Nokia should have included the triangular thingy they included with 5800 | 12:17 |
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| RST38h | dmj726: It is ugly, weird, but useful | 12:17 |
| dmj726 | triangular thingly? | 12:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guitar pick | 12:17 |
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| RST38h | plextrum or whatever | 12:17 |
| * GeneralAntilles just uses his fingers. | 12:18 | |
| RST38h | there is a cute latin name for it | 12:18 |
| bilboed-pi | or a nail clipper, to sharpen your nails so they act as a stylus :) | 12:18 |
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| dmj726 | http://www.amzer.com/accessories-details.asp?sku_no=85875&ptype=&model=&mcid=&category=&make= | 12:24 |
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| johnx | front camera? what front camera? | 12:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | How about LED, proximity sensor and ambient light sensor, too? | 12:26 |
| johnx | is the proximity sensor separate from the light sensor? | 12:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, yes? | 12:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Otherwise there'd be faces all over that damn thing in a dark room. :P | 12:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The proximity is a d-beam. | 12:27 |
| dmj726 | oh | 12:27 |
| johnx | cool. I have no idea what that means, but cool | 12:27 |
| dmj726 | why would they cover the camer? | 12:27 |
| dmj726 | that seems incredibly stupid | 12:28 |
| johnx | dmj726, the better question is: why would they cover all that stuff...and leave the other side totally open? | 12:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, ever used one of those synths or keyboards with the IR proximity sensor that lets you control distortion/pitch/whatever? | 12:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Usually you see them on Rolands | 12:28 |
| dmj726 | somebody put it on upside doen? | 12:28 |
| dmj726 | down | 12:28 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, nope. music production equipment and I keep a good distance ever since the restraining order :| | 12:28 |
| johnx | my artistic license was revoked. that Geneva convention has teeth man :/ | 12:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://rolandtaiwan.com.tw/roland/images/Image/L_ill/j/juno-d_LI04.jpg | 12:29 |
| johnx | dmj726, except there's a hole for the speaker | 12:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's an IR LED and an IR receiver | 12:29 |
| dmj726 | the ebay one seems better thought out | 12:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.roland.com/products/en/images/add/D_BEAM-1.jpg | 12:29 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, neat! can we get ranges out of that thing? | 12:30 |
| dmj726 | can proximty sensor be used for theramin purposes perhaps | 12:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think it may start to see stuff at about the 1" range. | 12:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can use it as a button, though. | 12:30 |
| johnx | it might still be fun for a game | 12:30 |
| johnx | move your thumb to accelerate/brake, tilt the device to steer | 12:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Probably a bit sensitive for that. | 12:31 |
| johnx | an inch is a really good range | 12:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, ping? | 12:31 |
| johnx | even a half inch would be ok I think | 12:31 |
| * johnx holds his n900 and makes zooming noises | 12:32 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | pewpew | 12:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | They use it as the fire button for Quake 3. | 12:32 |
| johnx | slick | 12:33 |
| johnx | do they involve the camera shutter button? | 12:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just wish the mouselook and accelerometer control weren't so broken. | 12:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 12:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need to bind that half-press to F11. | 12:33 |
| johnx | yeah, first tablet where I want to rebind lots of stuff | 12:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Having a dedicated fullscreen button would make things much nicer. | 12:34 |
| lardman | danielwilms: a belated thanks for sorting that :) | 12:35 |
| johnx | yup, though I'm actually torn between that and about 3 other functions | 12:35 |
| crashanddie | o/ GeneralAntilles lardman johnx | 12:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | I still can't believe nobody can enlighten us as how to go about rebinding keys in a reasonable fashion. | 12:35 |
| crashanddie | danielwilms, I've heard quite a lot about you yesterday! | 12:36 |
| johnx | allo crashanddie | 12:36 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, no event in xev. would you mind seeing if you get anything out of one of the eventN entries in /dev/input | 12:37 |
| crashanddie | I want to work for Nokia | 12:37 |
| crashanddie | Screw Australia, have you seen the quality of the birds at Nokia Global Marketing? | 12:37 |
| crashanddie | yesterday was a good evening | 12:38 |
| johnx | crashanddie, geese? crows? I dunno what kind of birds are in Finland... | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | johnx, gtfo | 12:38 |
| wjt | the penguins-with-frickin'-lasers t-shirts are incredibly ugly | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | loads of interesting people, had some very good discussions, people were actually asking for our opinions which was refreshing | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | wjt, yeah, they were | 12:39 |
| dmj726 | http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/11/17/1637212/Alternative-Mobile-Browsers-Tested-For-Speed-Usability-JavaScript-Rendering?art_pos=18 | 12:39 |
| * wjt declined | 12:39 | |
| crashanddie | wjt, so did I | 12:39 |
| crashanddie | wjt, did we meet? | 12:39 |
| wjt | there was a nice big pile of them at the end :) | 12:39 |
| crashanddie | I can't believe how drunk I got | 12:39 |
| lbt | crashanddie: "this thread useless w/o pics" | 12:40 |
| crashanddie | lbt, I got pics | 12:40 |
| crashanddie | but I would have to upload to flickr n shit | 12:40 |
| lbt | SFW? | 12:40 |
| crashanddie | and I'm late for work | 12:40 |
| crashanddie | I got two numbers though | 12:40 |
| * lbt would like to have gone... was supposed to be in Helsinki.... flights cancelled .... grr | 12:41 | |
| crashanddie | lbt, yeah, SFW, will upload tonight or something | 12:41 |
| crashanddie | well, not tonight, going out with boss | 12:41 |
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| johnx | dmj726, yeah, and engadget called microb the "best default mobile browser" I believe | 12:42 |
| dmj726 | so the n900 is stuck with your choice of the best browsers? | 12:42 |
| dmj726 | darm...that's just so unbearable | 12:42 |
| wjt | crashanddie: hmm, i don't think we did | 12:43 |
| johnx | yeah, and some neat browsers that use webkit as well | 12:43 |
| lcukn900 | crash how was you 7am call? | 12:43 |
| johnx | it's pretty much winning by default and having the choice if winning slightly differently if that's your thing | 12:43 |
| dmj726 | How is the community going to cope with getting stuck with nice gecko and webkit browsers? | 12:43 |
| crashanddie | lcukn900, painful | 12:43 |
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| lcukn900 | yikes | 12:43 |
| * wjt should have badgered lcukn900 to introduce community people :P | 12:44 | |
| RST38h | yes, how? | 12:44 |
| crashanddie | lcukn900, painful to wake up, call was fine | 12:44 |
| lcukn900 | im sat on the floor in the middle of euston station | 12:44 |
| lcukn900 | wjt you vanished rly quick | 12:44 |
| johnx | dmj726, I imagine there will be endless threads complaining, until someone manages to figure something out | 12:44 |
| crashanddie | lcukn900, did I meet wjt? | 12:44 |
| dmj726 | hehe...you get to pick how you win :P | 12:44 |
| lcukn900 | great that u came tho :) | 12:44 |
| * RST38h suddenly got a perfect idea for the N900 advertising campaign in .Ru =) | 12:44 | |
| dmj726 | People will complain about not having bad browsers | 12:44 |
| lcukn900 | dunno seb | 12:44 |
| wjt | lcukn900: christian needed to catch a train in order to get back so that he could fly very early this morning | 12:45 |
| johnx | dmj726, maybe someone should work on that | 12:45 |
| dmj726 | RST: do share | 12:45 |
| RST38h | lcuk <-- brought up the idea | 12:45 |
| lcukn900 | yeah was a great night | 12:45 |
| crashanddie | wjt, I'm sebastian, Nina introduced me at the beginning, I was the only idiot who didn't talk | 12:45 |
| RST38h | dmj726: It requires knowing the context =) | 12:45 |
| lcukn900 | this is so bizarre | 12:45 |
| dmj726 | ah | 12:45 |
| wjt | crashanddie: oh, heh :) | 12:45 |
| RST38h | http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/18/nokia-abandoning-s60-for-maemo-on-all-future-n-series-devices/ | 12:46 |
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| johnx | RST38h, O_o....though actually I pretty much called it | 12:46 |
| dmj726 | =-O | 12:46 |
| dmj726 | :-D | 12:46 |
| lcukn900 | i ha/e to give my laptop a blowjob when i get home | 12:46 |
| RST38h | johnx: well it was somewhat obvious, the question is when though | 12:47 |
| lcukn900 | it wont boot, after spending 3 days trying to get scratchbox happily on it, i hope a delivery comes soon | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: heh, wonder if that will cause some severe slappings | 12:47 |
| dmj726 | 2012 | 12:47 |
| dmj726 | the rumors are true...Maemo causes the end of the world | 12:47 |
| RST38h | Sts: of course it will, mass corporal punishment etc | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | yes, we get year of the linux on cellphones when the world ends | 12:47 |
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| johnx | Maemo on the LHC in 2012! w00! | 12:48 |
| Khertan | Hello ! | 12:48 |
| lcukn900 | lol | 12:48 |
| dmj726 | Sounds like Maemo will be getting a rather nice slice of the cell phone market | 12:48 |
| lcukn900 | maemo everywhere | 12:48 |
| lcukn900 | n | 12:48 |
| RST38h | TSHIRT: "I was promised the End of the World and all I got is an end of crappy Symbian" | 12:49 |
| Khertan | LHC ? Large Hadron Collider ? | 12:49 |
| viggi | RST38h: :D | 12:49 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, if you get a vendor on the hook about a Mer-based touch interface to a large physics experiment, might want to double check for any potential bugs :) | 12:49 |
| crashanddie | OH, and I managed to take a picture of the N920 | 12:49 |
| crashanddie | lcukn900, remember that one? Shoved in a corner? | 12:49 |
| johnx | Khertan, you missed context: Maemo replaces Symbian on N series devices by 2012, coinciding with the "end of the world" | 12:50 |
| lcukn900 | mmmm? | 12:50 |
| lcukn900 | news to me | 12:50 |
| Khertan | johnx: ah ok ;.... it s better now :) | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: running Bora 2010HE? :P | 12:50 |
| Khertan | Maemo replaces Symbian on N series devices by 2012 <<< it s a good news | 12:50 |
| dmj726 | good riddance to Symbian | 12:50 |
| RST38h | Khertan: Depends on who you are | 12:50 |
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| Khertan | so will be able to use Maemo on all new nSerie for 12 Months | 12:51 |
| johnx | yeah, none too soon | 12:51 |
| RST38h | Khertan: A lot of N-series folks are probably less than happy right now | 12:51 |
| johnx | Khertan, http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/18/nokia-abandoning-s60-for-maemo-on-all-future-n-series-devices/ | 12:51 |
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| Khertan | RST38h: it s good ... as i'm me | 12:51 |
| lcukn900 | hi khertan | 12:51 |
| Khertan | N-series folks << there is more than ten ? | 12:51 |
| Khertan | hi lcukn900 | 12:51 |
| dmj726 | the name was mentioned in my OS class once...the professor made a funny face and there was a sound of disgust in his voice in response | 12:51 |
| * RST38h sincerely hopes Maemo Devices will not start branching the platform for every new device though | 12:52 | |
| RST38h | For their own good | 12:52 |
| dmj726 | Linux did not elicit the same response | 12:52 |
| wazd | hello boring designs! :D | 12:52 |
| dmj726 | Keep maemo as Maemo...just add drivers | 12:52 |
| johnx | I love engadget commenters who don't even read the headline | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Should have mentioned iPhone and apply the silver nails while he is dazed | 12:52 |
| johnx | hello wazd ... oh wait :) | 12:53 |
| wazd | johnx: no, I mean 800x480 touch screens :) | 12:53 |
| Khertan | trolly news : http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/13/nokia-rumored-to-be-eyeing-palm-buy-yet-again/ | 12:54 |
| Khertan | lol | 12:54 |
| johnx | wazd, Maemo5 should be a lot more scalable than Maemo4 at least | 12:54 |
| Khertan | webos is a piece of shit | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Khertan: That would be the end of Palm | 12:54 |
| johnx | there's web os tech that could be interesting | 12:54 |
| Khertan | RST38h: it s already the end :) | 12:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: No. | 12:54 |
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| Khertan | johnx: no | 12:54 |
| johnx | pretty similar to Nokia's web runtime, isn't it? | 12:55 |
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| Khertan | johnx: no | 12:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: HTML-based desktops have been around for years, none of them caught up | 12:55 |
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| johnx | ah, nevermind then :) | 12:55 |
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| wazd | html os? no way :D | 12:55 |
| johnx | at least they have interesting designs | 12:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: I do not think web runtime is the same, it is much more limited in scope | 12:55 |
| Khertan | johnx: the nokia webruntime is well writed | 12:55 |
| johnx | wazd, that's web os :) | 12:55 |
| dmj726 | what the heck is a webruntime? | 12:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: yea, the idea is interesting | 12:55 |
| Khertan | johnx: not the palm one | 12:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: but the only widely used implementation is iGoogle | 12:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: web runtime is more like that windows desktop enhancements where you write widgets in js | 12:56 |
| Khertan | dmj726: a dummy browser with proprietary api to call some hardware directly | 12:56 |
| dmj726 | ‘Maemo Select’, the current community-portal for Maemo applications, will initially run alongside Nokia’s Ovi store, which is due to launch for the N900 via a software update next month. However, in the longer term it too will be retired leaving only the Ovi Store as the official Nokia source for free and paid applications promoted on Symbian and Maemo devices. | 12:56 |
| lcukn900 | its a spider on a train | 12:56 |
| dmj726 | this worries me | 12:56 |
| wazd | ahaha | 12:56 |
| Khertan | dmj726: ? | 12:56 |
| RST38h | Unless Ovi Store dies before they phase Maemo Select out | 12:56 |
| dmj726 | I don't want to be forced to use the ovi store for my FOSS | 12:56 |
| Khertan | dmj726: where did you get this troll ? | 12:56 |
| johnx | dmj726, yeah. me too :/ | 12:56 |
| dmj726 | http://thereallymobileproject.com/2009/11/nokia-dropping-symbian-from-n-series-by-2012/ | 12:57 |
| wazd | watching now some stuff on TV bout fake money | 12:57 |
| dmj726 | found that via slashgear | 12:57 |
| Khertan | dmj726: look like a fake rumors | 12:57 |
| johnx | wazd, some guy here printed $7 million with an ink jet printer on news print | 12:57 |
| dmj726 | looks like this might be the source of the 2012 switch | 12:57 |
| wazd | I remember when I came to the bank to pay for appartments, gave the girl 1k rubles, she checked it under UV rays and revealed big fat BRIBE label :D | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | nah.. TMO is the source | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: and you got arrested? :P | 12:58 |
| Khertan | dmj726: everybody talk about 2012, but don't know | 12:58 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: no, cause I was loling :D | 12:59 |
| Khertan | dmj726: this is true for predicted disaster, but also for nokia :) | 12:59 |
| johnx | Khertan, the guy at reallymobile claims the source is the N900 london meet-up | 12:59 |
| johnx | time will tell if it's true | 12:59 |
| * RST38h wants an E-series Maemo device =) | 12:59 | |
| Khertan | johnx: yep he claim | 12:59 |
| Khertan | johnx: but we will see :) | 12:59 |
| glass_ | johnx: maemo related folk have been saying this year+3 for dropping symbian for few years in few places now | 12:59 |
| RST38h | wazd: So, who bribed you? =) | 12:59 |
| johnx | glass_, first I heard it, but I figured it was coming | 13:00 |
| glass_ | and "n-series" is just a naming convention | 13:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have to laugh at Engadget calling S60 5th "mature" | 13:00 |
| RST38h | wazd: Has military fallen THAT low now? =) | 13:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Geriatric" is the word they're looking for. | 13:00 |
| glass_ | johnx: i heard it circa 3 years ago first :D | 13:00 |
| johnx | glass_, yeah sounds like splitting the current N to become X for symbian and N for Maemo | 13:00 |
| * lcukn900 is still on the floor | 13:00 | |
| lcukn900 | online as it happens | 13:00 |
| RST38h | johnx: yea, that looks like the plan | 13:01 |
| johnx | lcukn900, can you confirm it then? | 13:01 |
| dmj726 | Nmaemo | 13:01 |
| johnx | maemoN? | 13:01 |
| lcukn900 | confirm what | 13:01 |
| dmj726 | maemonokia | 13:01 |
| lcukn900 | i deny everything | 13:01 |
| lcukn900 | i wasnt there | 13:01 |
| * GeneralAntilles really hates Engadget. | 13:01 | |
| lcukn900 | and i was on a different chan and until xchat is fixed i cannot scrollbakc | 13:02 |
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| dmj726 | perhaps maemo select will disappear and extras will be featured prominently? | 13:02 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, but their commenters are priceless. the troll/honest-comment ratio is beyond any theoretical maximum I've ever seen | 13:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 13:02 |
| johnx | I mean, on the latest nokia/maemo/symbian story, one guy didn't even *read* the *headline* he was commenting on | 13:03 |
| lcukn900 | general, you hate everything | 13:03 |
| lcukn900 | what do you like about maemo etc | 13:03 |
| johnx | how do people like that not get lost inside their own house? | 13:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcukn900, hardly. | 13:03 |
| johnx | lcukn900, so where are you on the floor of? | 13:04 |
| glass_ | johnx: maybe they do get lost inside their own house, thus they're online pretty much | 13:04 |
| lcukn900 | euston station concourse | 13:04 |
| lcukn900 | waiting to find platform number | 13:04 |
| johnx | glass_, until that fateful day when they stick a fork into a wall socket? | 13:04 |
| TomaszD | anyone has any idea how to get the AC3 codec onto the N900 so that the media player supports it? I'm getting kind of tired having to transcode audio to MP3 | 13:04 |
| lcukn900 | i keep wanting to stand at the front and get everyone to smile | 13:05 |
| lcukn900 | so i can take a pic | 13:05 |
| johnx | lcukn900, ok, stop what you're doing, go to the london N900 meetup, and ask the guys there if they're dropping symbian for maemo on the N series by 2012 | 13:05 |
| lcukn900 | they are all looking the right way | 13:05 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:05 |
| lcukn900 | johnx i ws at the meetup | 13:05 |
| glass_ | johnx: bbq-fork is easier to stick in | 13:05 |
| glass_ | regular forks are hard :\ | 13:06 |
| lcukn900 | and it makes no sense to drop symbian | 13:06 |
| johnx | glass_, I think we need to have outlets designed to accept forks more easily... | 13:06 |
| lcukn900 | seriously why is that even a consideration? i would however love for nokia devices to choose os when you open the box | 13:06 |
| lcukn900 | bbl platform 2 | 13:07 |
| johnx | alright, so then you heard differently than this other guy who claims to have been at the meetup and says that Nokia announced they were dropping symbian on Nseries | 13:07 |
| dmj726 | hmm...I wonder if we might see the current "linux" smartphone OSes become more gnu-like in order to decrease fragmentation/marketshare issues | 13:07 |
| johnx | GNU-like? hmm? | 13:07 |
| johnx | you mean more interoperable? | 13:08 |
| dmj726 | easier for app developers by way of becoming like say...debian | 13:08 |
| glass_ | lcukn900: maemo in it's current state couldn't work as os for majority of current n-series devices | 13:08 |
| dmj726 | (or insert desktop distro here) | 13:08 |
| johnx | dmj726, no. they're moving away from that | 13:08 |
| * GeneralAntilles thinks he can actually swing the Barcelona weekend. | 13:09 | |
| lcukn900 | glass yet | 13:09 |
| johnx | dmj726, Maemo4 was more desktop-like than Maemo5 in a lot of ways | 13:09 |
| dmj726 | ...not just refering to nokia | 13:09 |
| johnx | dmj726, android won't. limo won't | 13:09 |
| dmj726 | (and I'm not talking ui here) | 13:09 |
| johnx | web os is so far away from desktop linux it's not worth considering | 13:10 |
| glass_ | lcukn900: what i could believe is that there's plans to use maemo more in high end, but n-series doesn't mean high end | 13:10 |
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| danielwilms | crashanddie ui...how come?? | 13:10 |
| danielwilms | crashanddie sorry for the late reply :) had lunch ;) | 13:11 |
| wjt | lcukn900: a first-run screen to choose between Symbian and Maemo? | 13:11 |
| johnx | android doesn't even use the same libc as maemo or desktop linux. who knows about web os at all. and as for limo, their previous examples were pretty locked down and also limited market. maybe that will change, but I don't really believe it | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiMo | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | LiMo is scary. | 13:12 |
| dmj726 | just trying to figure out how the smartphone market will trend with all these competitors | 13:12 |
| dmj726 | why scary? | 13:12 |
| johnx | s/scary/pathetic/ maybe? | 13:13 |
| glass_ | joke likely pathetic | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, mostly pathetic, yeah. | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | But talk about leveraging Linux for evil. | 13:13 |
| johnx | or maybe scary like a sack of body parts in a paper bag | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | That | 13:13 |
| dmj726 | what's evil about it? | 13:13 |
| johnx | heh. this is like the opposite of leverage | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | dmj726, take Android, but 100 times worse. | 13:14 |
| johnx | this is like building a lever and hitting yourself with it while telling people what an awesome time you're having | 13:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pay-to-play open source abuse. | 13:14 |
| dmj726 | so Maemo >> LiMo | 13:14 |
| dmj726 | pay-to-play? | 13:14 |
| glass_ | dmj726: if you got no access to anything, what fun is it that it runs linux? | 13:14 |
| dmj726 | not very...FOSS doesn't help me much with my TV set | 13:15 |
| johnx | about as much fun as a sony COM1/COM2 :) | 13:15 |
| glass_ | could run rtos or ericcson os or whatever and it would be just as useful for th euser | 13:15 |
| johnx | my initial reaction against the GPL3 was that it was pretty over-the-top anti-corporate...but I'm beginning to change my tune a little bit | 13:15 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:16 |
| johnx | not fully decided, but it's certainly an interesting debate | 13:16 |
| dmj726 | RMS can sometimes be scarily precient | 13:16 |
| johnx | and sometimes just scarily anti-social :) | 13:17 |
| johnx | really hard to figure out what's happening on which day | 13:17 |
| dmj726 | yeah | 13:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, it'd be nice if respecting the spirit of things were more popular. ;) | 13:17 |
| lcukn900 | lol | 13:17 |
| lcukn900 | howtohack tab complete on xchat | 13:18 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, yeah. then we'd all be using BSD and Mac OS X would be a free layer that sat on top | 13:18 |
| lcukn900 | on n900 | 13:18 |
| dmj726 | webos apps vs linux apps for palm's OS?...strange | 13:18 |
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| lcukn900 | mmmm blt | 13:20 |
| lcukn900 | i even had pineapple strawberry n yogurt breakfast | 13:20 |
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| * GeneralAntilles can't even begin to imagine what Nokia would do with Palm. | 13:21 | |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, keep their designers, and get some people making sure that webkit behaves well | 13:22 |
| Lynoure | I'd love Nokia buying Palm | 13:22 |
| johnx | and also: free "wireless" charger with every Nokia phone :) | 13:22 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders what kind of $$$ numbers are involved. | 13:22 | |
| frals | Make pretty little babies! | 13:22 |
| * Lynoure is in process of moving from Palm Treo 650 to N900 | 13:23 | |
| GeneralAntilles | They're just buying them for their Folio. | 13:23 |
| ccooke | Morning | 13:23 |
| lcukn900 | are they buying them? or is this a little rumour? | 13:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rumor | 13:23 |
| dmj726 | How about use that billion in cash for anti-patent lobbying? | 13:23 |
| * GeneralAntilles wants more Maemo devices. | 13:24 | |
| dmj726 | would solve the entire patent portfolio issue and nobody else is going to spend that much lobbying against them | 13:24 |
| lcukn900 | backwards train is odd | 13:24 |
| lcukn900 | im gonna spend 2 hours reversing | 13:25 |
| derf | dmj726: Nobody is interested in solving that problem for their competitors. | 13:25 |
| ShadowJK | "First regional Maemo Developer Days starting in Copenhagen in 2 hours." <- eh? | 13:25 |
| lcukn900 | its a long day lol | 13:25 |
| johnx | derf, except Microsoft :) | 13:25 |
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| dmj726 | hehe...just saying it could end up being a better option than buying palm for their patents...not that it would be done | 13:26 |
| dmj726 | M$ isn't in the patent ending mindset | 13:26 |
| johnx | dmj726, oh, it definitely is | 13:26 |
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| dmj726 | M$ wants to end patents? | 13:27 |
| dmj726 | evidence? | 13:27 |
| johnx | software patents at least | 13:27 |
| dmj726 | software patents I mean | 13:27 |
| dmj726 | I'll be glad to join M$ in the fight against software patents. | 13:27 |
| Veggen | agreed. | 13:28 |
| Shapeshifter | isn't this rumour based on the fact that they want to buy "Plum" | 13:28 |
| Shapeshifter | which has nothing to do with Palm. | 13:28 |
| dmj726 | i think it is | 13:28 |
| Shapeshifter | And as such is a stupid rumour. | 13:28 |
| johnx | dmj726, can't find my source...starting to doubt my memory now :/ | 13:28 |
| frals | Whats "plum"? :P | 13:28 |
| dmj726 | Gates was against them in the early 90s. | 13:28 |
| frals | Except the fruit.. ;P | 13:29 |
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| derf | Because he didn't have any. | 13:29 |
| Veggen | dm: that was before he had his own portfolio built up. | 13:29 |
| Veggen | Now, he's big into patent fud himself. | 13:29 |
| dmj726 | yeah...now he's the established player | 13:30 |
| Shapeshifter | Plum is http://www.plum.com/ | 13:30 |
| Shapeshifter | http://media-newswire.com/release_1099224.html and here's that nokia bought them. | 13:30 |
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| frals | Ah, thanks | 13:31 |
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| johnx | wow. this is really weird. I swear I heard MS come out against software patents at some point. probably when they were being sued | 13:41 |
| johnx | obviously I took it to mean more than it actually did | 13:41 |
| dmj726 | this is the same company brandishing them at us | 13:42 |
| johnx | yeah, but they have lots of money to lose too | 13:42 |
| johnx | they're the cash cow that every little patent troll comes after | 13:43 |
| dmj726 | and a big portfolio that lets them crosslicense | 13:43 |
| johnx | not always | 13:43 |
| dmj726 | of course there are the trolls | 13:43 |
| johnx | patent trolls aren't interested in cross-licensing. they don't do anything except sue | 13:43 |
| johnx | easy to avoid patents when that's all you do | 13:43 |
| Shapeshifter | m$ recently patented sudo | 13:45 |
| Shapeshifter | xD | 13:45 |
| Shapeshifter | I found that hilarious. | 13:45 |
| dmj726 | that'll hold up in court | 13:45 |
| Shapeshifter | riiight. | 13:45 |
| Shapeshifter | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 | 13:45 |
| dmj726 | even when they mention user interfaces...it's still just gksudo | 13:45 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah | 13:45 |
| dmj726 | wait...hasn't linux had that for years? | 13:46 |
| gnuton | looks that Ms sudo works different from our sudo. | 13:46 |
| dmj726 | it works shittier and is called UAC | 13:46 |
| Shapeshifter | "Oh, good grief! This concept goes back way past BSD, back to the mainframe days. (See, for example, the XDS Sigma 7 UTS Reference manual (1971), Appendix B, the listing for monitor error code 09, subcode 00: "The user privilege level was not high enough to allow issuing a direct device OPEN".)" | 13:46 |
| Shapeshifter | the concept has been around for decades. | 13:46 |
| Shapeshifter | And now m$ "invented" it | 13:46 |
| Shapeshifter | xD | 13:46 |
| dmj726 | ...I was referring to just the gksudo bits | 13:47 |
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| dmj726 | that said...sudo is so old it's not even patentable | 13:47 |
| gnuton | goshawkATPoliMi: Pol MI.. Politecnico di Milano? | 13:47 |
| Shapeshifter | gksudo has been written around 1980, yes. | 13:47 |
| goshawkATPoliMi | gnuton: yes | 13:47 |
| gnuton | goshawkATPoliMi: :D Nice to see anther italian here :D | 13:47 |
| goshawkATPoliMi | :) room T0.1 right now ;) | 13:48 |
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| * Shapeshifter wants a UK key layout not this lame QWERTZ keyboard with just two arrow keys. Will use the UK mapping anyway. | 13:55 | |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 13:55 |
| dmj726 | 2 arrow keys? | 13:55 |
| lardman | hi Jaffa | 13:55 |
| Shapeshifter | Moin, moin. | 13:55 |
| Termana | good morning Jaffa | 13:56 |
| Shapeshifter | dmj726: most of europe will have only left and right, no up and down. | 13:56 |
| dmj726 | heh...that sucks | 13:56 |
| Shapeshifter | isntead there will be buttons for é and the likes. | 13:56 |
| lardman | Jaffa: I hear you lot were out on the lash last night? | 13:56 |
| dmj726 | would make emulators and games harder | 13:56 |
| lbt | hi Jaffa | 13:56 |
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| Shapeshifter | dmj726: that's why many will probably use a UK/US layout. | 13:56 |
| dmj726 | yeah...and games could theoretically just pretend that the changed keys are arrows | 13:57 |
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| dmj726 | I suppose Europeans in countries with more characters than English has are used to switching layouts? | 13:57 |
| Shapeshifter | dmj726: well sure, the keyboard is the same, just the layout is different | 13:57 |
| Shapeshifter | dmj726: well usually there are enough keys on a keyboard to use our own layouts. I use the Swiss-german layout all the time. | 13:58 |
| dmj726 | I did find the keyboards in Spain much better for writing Spanish than the US ones | 13:58 |
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| Shapeshifter | but on an n900 I can gladly do without keys for äöü and such. | 13:58 |
| dmj726 | (that statement should not be controversial) | 13:59 |
| Jaffa | lardman: There was *some* lashage, indeed. | 13:59 |
| dmj726 | I've heard that programmers like English keyboards. | 13:59 |
| lardman | Jaffa: Just realised I could probably have made it, had I realised, as my wife is in London today | 14:00 |
| lardman | ah well | 14:00 |
| kirma | dmj726: switching whole keyboard layouts or just minor reinterpretation of layouts for things like games? | 14:00 |
| tbf | Shapeshifter: press Fn+Ctrl, in the popup select a combining char from third row. finally press the letter | 14:00 |
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| kirma | I certainly would say that switching layouts, especially to unmarked ones, is not something that regular users do "natively" | 14:00 |
| tbf | Shapeshifter: "u gives you ü | 14:01 |
| dmj726 | how about for games...will this phase regular users? | 14:01 |
| Shapeshifter | tbf: well, I'd xmodmap some fn+something key to ¨ so that typing ¨u will give me ü like on a normal keyboard. | 14:01 |
| tbf | dmj726: ^^ | 14:01 |
| kirma | oh well, people might be better to adapt different keyboard variants on specific devices, though. | 14:01 |
| Shapeshifter | and I don't need é è and à . | 14:01 |
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| tbf | Shapeshifter: all "André" you know will be pissed :-D | 14:02 |
| Shapeshifter | :P | 14:02 |
| dmj726 | I've seen keys that change their labels depending on the orientation of the device and the application. | 14:02 |
| kirma | much bigger issue than the keyboard layout in my opinion, regarding games, is that there's no really practical key input on the device at all (at least d-pad), and the situation is reasonably similar on most other devices too | 14:03 |
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| kirma | something like two keys on each side of keyboard plus accelerator control seems most reasonable in the case of n900 to me | 14:03 |
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| kirma | or single-finger tapping and some acceleration sensor work on the screen only | 14:04 |
| Termana | dmj726: Isn't that done with E-Ink? I think I've seen it done on a Motorola mobile phone... | 14:04 |
| Shapeshifter | kirma: someone had the clever idea of putting a "dpad" on the screen in the lower right corner. I think that could work well with many emulators at least as these often don't use the widescreen layout so there will be space on the left and right anway. | 14:04 |
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| dmj726 | no if only there were a way to add a dpad and a few buttons | 14:04 |
| kirma | shapeshifter: might work. | 14:05 |
| dmj726 | yeah e ink | 14:05 |
| ShadowJK | Even in maemo4 there are games that depend on a specific keyboard layouts.. | 14:05 |
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| Shapeshifter | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34543&highlight=dpad here's the link to the idea | 14:06 |
| lardman | lunch time! | 14:06 |
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| Shapeshifter | I like the first picture idea. | 14:06 |
| kirma | except for pure portable game consoles, devices have always huge compromises when it comes to gameplay. I don't think there is a single device that's really good at that now in the market... there's just good bullshitting | 14:06 |
| dmj726 | hmm...bluetooth...controller... | 14:07 |
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| kirma | yep, some sort of very small bt controller would solve things. | 14:07 |
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| dmj726 | actually it would be interesting to see a controller that the n900 sits inside | 14:08 |
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| dmj726 | making it look sorta like a psp | 14:08 |
| dmj726 | it would have buttons/dpad on either side | 14:08 |
| dmj726 | If you pair 2 n900's you get a very fast Nintendo DS :P | 14:09 |
| kirma | theoretically not a bad idea, just very model-specific stuff to implement | 14:09 |
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| dmj726 | yeah...perhaps make it to fit most 3.5 inch phones? | 14:09 |
| kirma | phone-specific frame that would host universal BT HID device with battery... | 14:10 |
| dmj726 | you could probably make something that would work with n900, iphone, and Droid | 14:10 |
| kirma | it might be hard to make "universal" also "studry" | 14:10 |
| Shapeshifter | Meh. I think I'll still just carry along my PSP for gaming. | 14:10 |
| dmj726 | providing there was bt support on those | 14:10 |
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| crashanddie_ | Pictures from last night: http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/tags/stmartinslanehotel/ | 14:11 |
| * dmj726 has not had a portable game thing since the gameboy color | 14:11 | |
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| Shapeshifter | the PSP is pretty cool. Though I don't have time for gaming anyway so I haven't used it for months already. | 14:11 |
| dmj726 | that you lcuk? | 14:11 |
| dmj726 | Gaming is something that I do occasionally | 14:12 |
| dmj726 | I've spent more time making games than playing them of late | 14:12 |
| * kirma has had no portable game thingie (specifically for games!) since mickey-mouse-collects-eggs kind of monochrome LCD display thing with game-specific shapes on screen :) | 14:12 | |
| kirma | that'd be portable in comparison to any of things mentioned | 14:13 |
| kirma | although very eighties-style... | 14:13 |
| dmj726 | does an eee pc with soduku count? | 14:13 |
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| GAN900 | No | 14:15 |
| dmj726 | what if it has blender? | 14:16 |
| Shapeshifter | the n900 has a blender? ;) | 14:18 |
| Shapeshifter | coool | 14:18 |
| dmj726 | eee pc | 14:18 |
| Shapeshifter | the eee pc has a blender? How are the smoothies? | 14:18 |
| dmj726 | ...I can confirm the usability of blender at 800x480 (on desktop) | 14:18 |
| dmj726 | erm...kinda warm...theblender is the cpu fan | 14:19 |
| Shapeshifter | aww | 14:19 |
| dmj726 | fits nicely in the pocket though | 14:21 |
| alterego | The only portable game thingy I've had is the N8xx ^.^ | 14:22 |
| alterego | Actually, I had a Psion Series 3 | 14:22 |
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| alterego | That had a game I was pretty addicted too, can't remember the name though | 14:23 |
| alterego | I think it was called "Bounce" ... Which is interesting. | 14:23 |
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| dmj726 | i can imagine n900 as a good gaming handheld | 14:28 |
| GAN900 | I miss the GameBoy Pocket. | 14:29 |
| GAN900 | Wish it had a dpad | 14:30 |
| dmj726 | I had the color variant of the gboy pocket | 14:30 |
| GAN900 | fdheycjxvm qasgnowkl. | 14:30 |
| GAN900 | Interesting, somehow got a return out of that. | 14:30 |
| dmj726 | ? | 14:31 |
| GAN900 | That was my silly little "How many simultaneous keypresses does this thing handle?" test. | 14:32 |
| dmj726 | the n900? | 14:32 |
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| GAN900 | Yeah | 14:33 |
| dmj726 | cool | 14:33 |
| kirma | on-screen dpad without multitouch is problematic unless one starts to half-guess effects of multiple pressure points of specific combinations on the sensor | 14:33 |
| * GAN900 <- | 14:33 | |
| kirma | it *can* work to some extent, mmaybe. | 14:34 |
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| Shapeshifter | kirma: nah I think it would work well, of course only if that's the only thing on-screen. The rest would still need to be on the keyboard. | 14:35 |
| kirma | d-pad *plus* A/B buttons, you know? | 14:35 |
| dmj726 | yeah dpad usually doesn't do 2 directions at once | 14:35 |
| kirma | or whatever | 14:35 |
| dmj726 | but combining d pad with a and b would be an issue | 14:36 |
| kirma | actually, it wouldn't be necessarily an huge issue... it would just require good placement of "buttons" and somewhat more intelligent processing of the data | 14:36 |
| kirma | if there are only two pressure points at the same time on the display, the read result is something on line between those | 14:37 |
| kirma | if lines are properly enough separable and user action not too wizardric, I think it could be figured out | 14:38 |
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| danielwilms | crashanddie_ hmmm...still curious :)) | 14:38 |
| dmj726 | I'd personally like a number of simple 3D games that take nice advantage of the hardware | 14:39 |
| dmj726 | (in addition to classics like card games, chess, soduku etc | 14:39 |
| kirma | I'd personally like C64 games if controls are made bearable ;) | 14:39 |
| dmj726 | and a simple RTS would be awesome | 14:40 |
| kirma | touchscreen A/B + accelerator direction might work too | 14:40 |
| kirma | acceleration sensor even | 14:40 |
| dmj726 | you would of course want to have the accelerator be changeable to keys in the event of bumpy roads | 14:41 |
| kirma | theoretically one could use IR proximity sensor as one input outside touchscreen | 14:43 |
| kirma | but that might be harder to attach and force-ignore on other parts of the software | 14:44 |
| dmj726 | hmm...Half-Linux | 14:44 |
| dmj726 | With Tux Freedom and Alnix Vax | 14:44 |
| mzz | I don't see how you could make touchscreen a/b + d-pad work without putting a and b inconveniently far apart | 14:45 |
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| kirma | mzz: yes, that's a challenge | 14:45 |
| mzz | kirma: not so much "a challenge" as "impossible" unless you can make some assumptions about your input, I think. | 14:45 |
| dmj726 | one at a time | 14:46 |
| Shapeshifter | no, as I said, without multitouch that is pretty damn impossible. Only the d-pad would go onscreen, the rest needs to stay on the keyboard | 14:46 |
| Shapeshifter | I don't see a problem with that. | 14:46 |
| kirma | pressure level is supposedly also readable from input? | 14:46 |
| mzz | you probably could mostly do it if you assume the d-pad and the a/b buttons don't change simultaneously | 14:46 |
| mzz | and I lie, still wouldn't quite work: I don't think you could detect whether a+right just changed into b+right or a+left | 14:47 |
| dmj726 | the puns weren't too subtle were they? | 14:47 |
| mzz | err, that example's broken, but you get the idea | 14:47 |
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| kirma | from raw sensor data, one might be able to work out things, but preprocessed, filtered data would probably be way too mangled to serve much purpose in such hackery | 14:48 |
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| CoreFusion- | Hmm.. one operator (here in finland) is stating that nokia has told them that the operator can start delivering N900's at friday the 4 of december, I believe this is the case for others too | 14:52 |
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| lardman | re | 14:52 |
| lardman | ah! still no Jeremiah, where is he? | 14:53 |
| kirma | nokia flagship store would start selling 27 of november, and preorder deliveries start on 20 of november | 14:53 |
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| CoreFusion- | kirma: yes, i'm aware of that, as nokia earlier has stated, those that preordered from them will get the devices first :) | 14:54 |
| kirma | somehow I'm a pessimist about getting the device on friday, going to lose that weekend anyway ;) | 14:54 |
| CoreFusion- | you ordered directly from nokia? | 14:54 |
| kirma | they could really have started on thursday, thus making express deliveries actually deliver before weekend... | 14:54 |
| kirma | yes | 14:54 |
| lardman | hmm, seems the addition of gdigicam hasn't solved my linking problems.... | 14:54 |
| CoreFusion- | I ordered from Saunalahti | 14:55 |
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| lardman | Right boys & girls, I need some linker advice, from people who use gstreamer | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Oh, shit, the "Nokia will ditch Symbian for Maemo" thing is all over the news now | 14:55 |
| dmj726 | yeah | 14:55 |
| dmj726 | it's not like that would be big news or anything | 14:56 |
| RST38h | lardman: if you mean ld, ask. If you mean some gstreamer feature, no idea | 14:56 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, what's up | 14:56 |
| lardman | If I want to link against one of the gst plugins (as well as the main libgstreamer), should I need to manually supply a linker path (-L) or should it come from pkg-config? | 14:56 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, don't link to a plugin :) | 14:56 |
| lardman | as it doesn't | 14:56 |
| lardman | hmm | 14:56 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, why do you want to link to a plugin? | 14:57 |
| lardman | how do I use a function supplied by the plugin then? | 14:57 |
| zaheerm-lp | what functions are you talking about? | 14:57 |
| RST38h | lardman: AFAIK plugins do not have .pc files so -L it is\ | 14:57 |
| lardman | I need to use the gst_photography functions defined in camerabin | 14:57 |
| zaheerm-lp | aaah | 14:57 |
| zaheerm-lp | that is different | 14:57 |
| lardman | RST38h: some do actually, but none of their output contains -L stuff | 14:57 |
| zaheerm-lp | let me tell you the answer, give me a sec | 14:57 |
| lardman | thanks | 14:57 |
| GAN900 | lol | 14:58 |
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| GAN900 | Apparently the N97 mini uses Maemo 5 | 14:59 |
| dmj726 | ? | 14:59 |
| dmj726 | you're joking | 14:59 |
| lardman | guess someone got their reporting wires crossed | 14:59 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, pkg-config -L gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 | 14:59 |
| dmj726 | link? | 14:59 |
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| lardman | zaheerm-lp: unknown option | 14:59 |
| GAN900 | http://gizmodo.com/5407319/nokias-n+series-will-ditch-symbian-for-maemo-by-2012 | 15:00 |
| GAN900 | dmj726, dumbass bloggers. ;) | 15:00 |
| lardman | pkg-config --libs-only-L gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 ?? | 15:00 |
| lardman | that gives an empty string though | 15:00 |
| dmj726 | um...no it doesn't | 15:00 |
| lardman | dmj726: really? | 15:01 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, pkg-config --libs gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 | 15:01 |
| zaheerm-lp | -pthread -lgstphotography-0.10 -lgstbase-0.10 -lgstreamer-0.10 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lxml2 -lglib-2.0 | 15:01 |
| dmj726 | :P | 15:01 |
| GAN900 | dmj726, yeah, no shit. | 15:01 |
| dmj726 | if they hadn't mentioned the n900 right next to it and used the word "and" I would have thought it a type | 15:01 |
| dmj726 | *typo | 15:01 |
| lardman | zaheerm-lp: hmm, sure I tried that, hang on let me see | 15:02 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, i did this in my scratchbox | 15:02 |
| lardman | zaheerm-lp: ah, wunderbar, worked as planned. Doh! on my part | 15:03 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, no worries | 15:03 |
| lardman | thanks | 15:03 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: I got a frantic SMS from Peter about this this morning | 15:03 |
| zaheerm-lp | Jaffa, who was his source? :) | 15:03 |
| lbt | heh... what happened? | 15:03 |
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| Jaffa | zaheerm-lp: No idea. | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | lbt: http://thereallymobileproject.com/2009/11/nokia-dropping-symbian-from-n-series-by-2012/ | 15:04 |
| dmj726 | what did Peter have to say? | 15:05 |
| lbt | I saw, wondered if you knew what had been said | 15:05 |
| Jaffa | There wasn't any announcement about anything in that article (Symbian future or Ovi Store being the only mechanism); nor during the Q&A | 15:06 |
| kirma | too much free beer to nokia folks? ;) | 15:07 |
| lbt | OK ta | 15:07 |
| Jaffa | Either it's mostly made up by misunderstanding comments during a chat with someone; or it's all true | 15:07 |
| Jaffa | Or it's all made up | 15:07 |
| lbt | Or... | 15:07 |
| glass_ | it's the sort of thing that comes up when mobile people go to a pub | 15:07 |
| Robot101 | Jaffa: doesn't that cover all possibilities? | 15:08 |
| * lbt pushes the boundaries of tristate | 15:08 | |
| zaheerm-lp | no | 15:08 |
| zaheerm-lp | or it is a little bit speculation with a lot of feeding by someone there | 15:08 |
| Robot101 | it could've been a plant from Android^WiPhone^WLimo^WPalm^WBadu!! ;) | 15:08 |
| lbt | yeah, but that sms was "frantic" | 15:08 |
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| * lbt looks for the "send frantically" button on the maemo UI | 15:09 | |
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| * lbt finds it right next to the MMS button | 15:09 | |
| dmj726 | Everyone knows that Peter only uses an iphone. | 15:09 |
| Jaffa | An iPhone running Maemo 6 | 15:10 |
| dmj726 | yes | 15:10 |
| lbt | Borg | 15:10 |
| * lbt waits for an iBorg | 15:10 | |
| lbt | Oh, wait, that would be 7-of-9 | 15:10 |
| lbt | mmmm | 15:10 |
| dmj726 | already released...people just havent figured it out yet | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=380041&postcount=154 seems like the source of the articles i'd say | 15:11 |
| dmj726 | there will be metallic tendrils coming out of the devices where the stylus should have been! | 15:11 |
| alterego | Nokia wont drop Symbian for a long time yet. | 15:11 |
| kirma | the Nseries rumor makes sense, but it doesn't really mean that it would be factually verifiable stuff this time | 15:12 |
| kirma | especially the 2012 timeframe is more than just barely believable | 15:12 |
| alterego | The man years of 3rd party developers since S60's debut is pretty insane, and non-one has really adopted Qt, which is the only real migration path. | 15:12 |
| suihkulokki | There is a HUGE difference between "dropping from n-series" and "dropping completly" :P | 15:12 |
| glass_ | i would find it hard for nokia to actually know for sure what os they're going to ship in what named os in 2012 | 15:12 |
| suihkulokki | n-series is just a marketing term (observe the freshly launched x-series) | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: the further away from the source the more convuluted the message gets :P | 15:13 |
| kirma | indeed | 15:13 |
| alterego | glass_: you say that, but Maemo has been incubating and moving along their agenda for at least 5 years? | 15:13 |
| Stskeeps | especially since it says symbian going to E-series | 15:13 |
| glass_ | alterego: yes, but as i've said before i've listened to "they'll drop symbian in favor of maemo" for 3 years | 15:13 |
| kirma | Qt move on Symbian should really be done by 2012 | 15:13 |
| kirma | hell, it should be done to considerable extent already late 2010 | 15:13 |
| alterego | "... from the entire ‘top end’ N-Series range of handsets ..." | 15:14 |
| alterego | That's exactly what they've been sxaying all along. | 15:14 |
| glass_ | alterego: usually the commenter/comments not taking into account anything, like what kind of devices and what hw and how cheap they're supposed to be or etc.. | 15:14 |
| alterego | Expect to see maemo on the new N97 like flagship high-end devices, | 15:14 |
| glass_ | well doh, n900 | 15:14 |
| alterego | Don't expect it on N8X series or N7X series devices. | 15:15 |
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| alterego | But there's really no difference there to what they've always been saying. | 15:15 |
| glass_ | they're still doing a a lot of xxxx-number models too | 15:15 |
| aol | I don't think there will be symbian on the nokia flagships ever again | 15:15 |
| aol | sad reality, time to learn new platforms | 15:16 |
| glass_ | it's not that sad | 15:16 |
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| dmj726 | I think there would be a lot of complaints if Nokia followed up the n900 with a symbian device | 15:16 |
| aol | no, because symbian is crap... but sad because I know symbian so well :D | 15:16 |
| alterego | Yes there will aol, but the kinds of devices that the N95 were and the N97 is, will more than likely be geared toward Maemo, as they're supposed to be the most powerful handsets. | 15:16 |
| aol | alterego: I said flagship | 15:17 |
| *** gutsoft_nokia is now known as GuySoft_nokia | 15:17 | |
| dmj726 | Just think though...lots of people know the new OS already! | 15:17 |
| alterego | flagship for a product line .. | 15:17 |
| aol | flagship meaning N95, N96, N97... :) | 15:17 |
| alterego | YEah, one line :P | 15:17 |
| kirma | symbian itself isn't crap if the top of the S60 stack is replaced with well-thought-out Qt and it's pushed to higher-middle segment phones | 15:17 |
| alterego | Or, "liner" if we're talking ships ;) | 15:17 |
| GuySoft_nokia | hi all, does anyone know what web browser macuco gmail client uses? | 15:17 |
| aol | I guess there will be s60 flagship ... but who knows what is S40 flagship right now? or S30? yes, NO ONE CARES ! :D | 15:17 |
| alterego | S30 and S40 don't exist. | 15:18 |
| glass_ | kirma: i see it pushing to cheapos, where maemo doesn't have much place | 15:18 |
| dmj726 | flagship is not the word to use for those | 15:18 |
| glass_ | s40 exists | 15:18 |
| alterego | Not anymore :P | 15:18 |
| alterego | Yeah, my mistake, | 15:18 |
| aol | kirma: symbian is efficient and fast but the API's kill creativity like nothing else | 15:18 |
| alterego | S40 is still alive ^.^ | 15:18 |
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| alterego | So why is my N96 so god awefully slow? :P | 15:18 |
| aol | kirma: it's sad fact that symbian is over engineered to death | 15:18 |
| RST38h | aol: There is no problem adding standard POSIX APIs on top of Symbian | 15:18 |
| glass_ | alterego: 'cause n96 blows ;D | 15:18 |
| RST38h | aol: Combine that with Qt and you have got a decent little OS | 15:19 |
| alterego | RST38h: OpenC :) | 15:19 |
| kirma | well, anything below high-end smartphones is much muddier to separate from each other... but the "cheapos" are really ones with monochrome screen and sold for 20 euros or so in africa | 15:19 |
| glass_ | alterego: n97 could be said to be less powerful than n95 too | 15:19 |
| alterego | They've already done that. | 15:19 |
| RST38h | alterego: still no main() though? | 15:19 |
| alterego | They use glib/gobject in OpenC too. | 15:19 |
| aol | RST38h: yeah good job implementing Open C++, it is awfully buggy and slow :( | 15:19 |
| dmj726 | how about replacing the symbian kernel with Linux and the Symbian userspace with Debian? | 15:19 |
| glass_ | you could've had main() for ages in symbian | 15:19 |
| alterego | RST38h: yeah, you can write apps with 'main' | 15:19 |
| glass_ | not that it's too useful though | 15:19 |
| kirma | S40 might replace S30 and new Qt-based Symbian replace S40 | 15:19 |
| RST38h | glass: Well that is different main() :) | 15:19 |
| aol | RST38h: I'm not saying theres no good in symbian, but the implementation and execution has always been awful | 15:19 |
| RST38h | glass: But yes, sincle Symbian 9.1 (S60e3) | 15:19 |
| kirma | potentially even S40 might adapt Qt for internal development (I think it should be a goal, only problem is if it's possible) | 15:20 |
| aol | the api's buggy and non existent documentation | 15:20 |
| aol | I just wish symbian.org would have happened 2-3 years ago | 15:20 |
| glass_ | RST38h: well, before that too. but to what good? most apps need ui not convinient to do from console exe | 15:20 |
| aol | now its too late | 15:20 |
| RST38h | glass: And the UI is a freaking abomination | 15:20 |
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| suihkulokki | kirma google for qt and S40 | 15:21 |
| glass_ | s30' | 15:21 |
| glass_ | s30' | 15:21 |
| RST38h | glass: Ok, Eikon was still relatively sane, but Nokia broke it and added Avkon which is crazy | 15:21 |
| glass_ | arg | 15:21 |
| RST38h | glass: [notice: isn't this what Nokia is doing to GTK+ in Maemo5? ;)] | 15:21 |
| glass_ | RST38h: yeh they're so crap that most people that end up writing decent looking dynamic stuff just end up doing their own drawing | 15:21 |
| kirma | suihkulokki: oh yeah... haven't really been looking at the situation so intensely lately, I think I were pretty certain things going that direction around midsummer last year... | 15:22 |
| glass_ | dos was fun :\ | 15:22 |
| RST38h | "i have a ds and love the game big brain acamedy. it allows you to play against someone with a ds even if they dont have the game. Is the n900 capable of this on blue tooth wifi." -- kryptoniankid17, Sep 2009 | 15:23 |
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| suihkulokki | glass_: like on nokia 9110 | 15:23 |
| * RST38h facepalms | 15:23 | |
| alterego | So, anyone working on a GPS-fueled, google-streetview, augmented reality app for maemo yet? | 15:23 |
| alterego | Oh, + using video camera :) | 15:23 |
| glass_ | hah | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Google? | 15:23 |
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| alterego | s/video camera/camera/ | 15:23 |
| infobot | alterego meant: Oh, + using camera :) | 15:24 |
| * RST38h has got a hypothesis on why gnuite has not released Maemo Mapper yet | 15:24 | |
| alterego | Heh | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: he isn't developing on it at all | 15:24 |
| RST38h | He may be working on the official Google Maps for Maemo ;)) | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | it's another guy | 15:24 |
| RST38h | Sts: ? | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | check commit logs for maemo mapper | 15:25 |
| GuySoft_nokia | hi all, does anyone know what web browser macuco gmail client uses? | 15:25 |
| GuySoft_nokia | ..sorry for reposting, but it was missed aparently | 15:26 |
| aol | nokias mistake with S60 was not to throw away AVKON when they did binary break between 2nd/3rd | 15:26 |
| alterego | GuySoft_nokia: "My application is a little webkit browser made in Qt that identifies itself as iPhone’s Safari" | 15:26 |
| aol | then it continued to obsolete itself | 15:26 |
| alterego | GuySoft_nokia: read the website next time. | 15:26 |
| RST38h | Sts: Of course he is not! He is working on the secret internal Google app for Maemo! =) | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | Alberto Mardegan | 15:27 |
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| lardman | how do I refresh my icons? | 15:29 |
| GuySoft_nokia | alterego, it seems not to behave as other webkit browsers out there. I was expecting it to be something speific | 15:30 |
| GuySoft_nokia | its faster than midori | 15:30 |
| alterego | I like this libchamplain stuff. | 15:31 |
| lardman | alterego: where's your source code? | 15:31 |
| alterego | lardman: for what? :P | 15:32 |
| lardman | alterego: macuco | 15:32 |
| alterego | lardman: it's not my project :P | 15:32 |
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| lardman | ah sorry, that was a quote :) | 15:32 |
| alterego | :) | 15:32 |
| lardman | speaking of libchamplain, anyone fancy doing some more hildonisation on emerillon? | 15:32 |
| alterego | YEs, I'd never even heard of macucu until he mentioned it. | 15:32 |
| lardman | I quite like the idea of an embedded browser, for map type things.... | 15:33 |
| alterego | What's the current state of emerillon for maemo? | 15:33 |
| lardman | ah, that source is here anyway: http://github.com/puelocesar/Macuco | 15:34 |
| lardman | alterego: it runs ;) | 15:34 |
| lardman | menus need hildonisation | 15:34 |
| alterego | Oh, so you've just compiled it? | 15:34 |
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| lardman | nah it's been in the repo for a week or so | 15:34 |
| alterego | Ah, someone else compiled it :) | 15:34 |
| lardman | no I did | 15:34 |
| alterego | Hah, okay. | 15:35 |
| lardman | just taking issue with the "just" in your statement :) | 15:35 |
| alterego | I dunno, I'm scared to push any more Gtk development seeing as it'll be redundant in a year. | 15:35 |
| lardman | yeah | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | nah, not redundant, just not preinstalled on device. for most cases, it would still exist | 15:35 |
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| lardman | I have a plan for the menus, but haven't got round to implementing it yet | 15:35 |
| alterego | Now, libchamplain on Qt might be interesting. | 15:35 |
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| alterego | Oh, it depends on Gdk :/ | 15:36 |
| RST38h | why? | 15:36 |
| derf | RST38h: gnuite is in the Google black hole now. You'll never hear from him again. | 15:36 |
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| RST38h | derf: But the information about him will stay there forever! | 15:37 |
| alterego | Heh | 15:38 |
| alterego | What does KDE have for geolocation infrastructure? | 15:38 |
| lardman | geoclue? | 15:39 |
| lardman | or is that glib based? | 15:39 |
| alterego | Does the flash plugin on the N900 have access to the camera? | 15:39 |
| lardman | anyone know how to refresh the icons? | 15:39 |
| alterego | It's freedesktop.org based :) | 15:39 |
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| alterego | Actually, scrap that, can't get GPS info from flash. | 15:40 |
| * alterego sighs | 15:40 | |
| Stskeeps | not even with a bridge to the location extension? :P | 15:40 |
| * lardman too, extras builder is not letting me through to step 2 | 15:40 | |
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| * lardman again curses the way mbarcode locks up when you try to close a dialog | 15:45 | |
| alterego | Anyone looked into getting application popularity statistics for iphone and seeing what we need to get 'em? | 15:46 |
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| aol | a few fart apps maybe | 15:46 |
| alterego | I'm being serious | 15:47 |
| glass_ | make every app phone-home | 15:47 |
| fernando_ | lol | 15:48 |
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| fernando_ | someone needs to harvest the data from http://www.cocktaildb.com/ and make a app | 15:49 |
| fernando_ | same for recipe sites | 15:49 |
| fernando_ | e | 15:49 |
| fernando_ | t | 15:49 |
| fernando_ | c | 15:49 |
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| rzr | hi can tell me in where can i found command "maemo-bootstrap" ? dpkg -S $(which maemo-bootstrap) | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | there's a maemo-bootstrap? :P | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | for what purpose? :P | 15:49 |
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| alterego | I wonder if he's getting confused with debian-boostrap | 15:49 |
| reed | hello | 15:49 |
| rzr | Stskeeps: i am wondering :) | 15:49 |
| rzr | # /tmp/sb2-maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_diablo_4.1.2.sh: 70: maemo-rootstrap: not found | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | you mean rootstrap | 15:50 |
| alterego | Oh, rootstrap! :) | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | rzr: that's part of sb2 i think | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | err | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | msdk+ | 15:50 |
| reed | can anybody familiar with http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture explain why Funambol is listed as a proprietary component? | 15:51 |
| alterego | Well, looks like games are most important to iphone users. | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | reed: well, funambol exists as closed source licensing too | 15:52 |
| vesa | facebook chat plugin. that's what we need. | 15:53 |
| alterego | URgh | 15:53 |
| fernando_ | but yeah, @ aol, to see examples of dumb almost useless applications app store lovers like | 15:53 |
| alterego | They have that from pidgin | 15:53 |
| alterego | ~for pidgin | 15:53 |
| rzr | http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/maemo-rootstrap.html | 15:53 |
| fernando_ | http://store.ovi.com/publisher/Offscreen/ | 15:53 |
| reed | alterego: I know, I just wonder ... I'll ask Funambol too | 15:53 |
| *** busybee is now known as bbee | 15:53 | |
| fernando_ | also doesn't telepathy-purple do that? | 15:53 |
| TomaszD | can anyone check something for me? Put a whole day event for the 3rd December this year and see if it gets displayed in the calendar desktop widget | 15:53 |
| alterego | Yes | 15:54 |
| fernando_ | perfect | 15:54 |
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| alterego | Though, people don't market these things. | 15:54 |
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| alterego | At least, we don't. I mean, we've had facebook-chat for libpurple for ages, it's not a new thing. | 15:54 |
| alterego | So why would we get excited about it? :) | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/17/hellads_phase_iv_contracts/ - check out later in the article :) | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | (not n900 related) | 15:55 |
| vesa | hmm purple. i'm quite sure there's nothing like that in maemo-extras | 15:56 |
| vesa | nope, nothing =/ | 15:56 |
| alterego | vesa: it was in testing last time I checked. | 15:56 |
| alterego | Or maybe extras-devel | 15:56 |
| vesa | ah ok. so it's coming. sweet =) | 15:56 |
| alterego | It's a pidgin thing. | 15:56 |
| lbt | Jaffa: do you know about syncing contacts then.... :) | 15:57 |
| * vesa has no idea what a pidgin is | 15:57 | |
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| * lbt was looking at syncevolution last night | 15:57 | |
| lbt | vesa: pidgin is an im client | 15:58 |
| lbt | multi-protocol | 15:58 |
| Shapeshifter | sharks carrying lasers. | 15:58 |
| Shapeshifter | riiiiight. | 15:58 |
| SpeedEvil | IRC/AIM/... | 15:58 |
| wjt | alterego, vesa: we've got the pidgin-facebookchat plugin working with the built-in messaging stuff | 15:58 |
| vesa | now that's something to get exited about imo =) | 15:58 |
| wjt | alterego, vesa: but we needed to fix some bugs in a telepathy library first; not sure if that's made it into a public release | 15:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | I would be a lot more excited with pidgin if it worked in split mode. | 15:59 |
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| lbt | wjt: you're a contacts person aren't you? | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | As in I can set it up on some server somewhere, and connect to it remotely. | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Rather than falling offline whenever I lose signal. | 15:59 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: oh, were you? | 16:01 |
| lbt | *nod* | 16:01 |
| Jaffa | lbt: I want syncevolution for calendars :) | 16:01 |
| lbt | didn't get far... also looked at obex | 16:02 |
| wjt | Jaffa: oh, i meant to come say hi yesterday; hermes is *sweet* | 16:02 |
| wjt | lbt: i'm a telepathy person, not contacts per se | 16:02 |
| lbt | Jaffa: me too... | 16:02 |
| lbt | wjt: close enough | 16:02 |
| Robot101 | we should, like, finish this and blog it with a video of how to set it up and install it | 16:02 |
| wjt | i have a contacts person next door i can shout at... :P | 16:02 |
| Robot101 | not many collaborans on planet maemo though | 16:02 |
| wjt | Robot101: yes... we can't until the new tp-glib is out publicly | 16:03 |
| * lbt is looking for the right approach to get contact/cal sync to linux desktop | 16:03 | |
| wjt | barisione: hey, you should speak to lbt! | 16:03 |
| Robot101 | can maemo extras upgrade "system" software? | 16:03 |
| lbt | Robot101: X-Fade will do that in a jiffy | 16:03 |
| lbt | when he's back | 16:03 |
| Robot101 | lbt: which, the video and blogging bits? :) | 16:03 |
| Robot101 | don't want Pidgin listed as the "crown jewel" on maemo.org again :P | 16:04 |
| lbt | link to planet-maemo | 16:04 |
| Robot101 | ahh | 16:04 |
| barisione | wjt, lbt: syncing contacts between linux and n900? | 16:04 |
| lbt | barisione: yes | 16:04 |
| * lbt looked at gnokii, syncevolution, obex last night | 16:05 | |
| lbt | got somewhere with all of them | 16:05 |
| lbt | but none 'worked' | 16:05 |
| lbt | wondered if anyone had a sane strategy | 16:05 |
| barisione | sadly we have sync with outlook, but not with evo... | 16:05 |
| lbt | (gnokii sounds wrong) | 16:05 |
| barisione | tbh I don't know how all the syncing apps work | 16:05 |
| lbt | barisione: yes, is that compatible with obex? | 16:06 |
| vesa | between hermes and friendstatus is there any way to update messenger 'status updates' to your phone? | 16:06 |
| vesa | skype statuses seem to work fine, only have 1 friend on skype tho =P | 16:06 |
| lbt | it's really sad that a linux phone won't talk to linux apps :( | 16:06 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|afk | 16:06 | |
| lbt | especially since it has syncml | 16:06 |
| lbt | but not over tcp AFAIUI | 16:06 |
| barisione | lbt: there are 2 separate sync things on the n900 from what I know, the one used with other nokia phones (that should be syncml) and exchange | 16:07 |
| lbt | so syncevolution does syncml over usb | 16:07 |
| lbt | barisione: makes sense | 16:07 |
| barisione | but I work on the addressbook and those apps are on top (and closed source) so I don't know how they work exactly | 16:07 |
| lbt | *nod* | 16:07 |
| lbt | would it make sense to write an open syncml client on the libcontacts base? | 16:08 |
| barisione | did you try using the transfer & sync app via bluetooth with linux? | 16:10 |
| barisione | what does it do? | 16:10 |
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| lbt | not bluetooth, just usb | 16:11 |
| lbt | usb via obex_client recognises it | 16:11 |
| lbt | and sees multiple profiles | 16:11 |
| lbt | syncml and pc suite | 16:12 |
| lbt | but doesn't negotiate the link | 16:12 |
| lbt | I wasn't sure if authentication was needed | 16:12 |
| lbt | it's hard to diagnose config bugs with zarro docs | 16:12 |
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| Stskeeps | wb qwerty12 | 16:14 |
| qwerty12 | Thanks, Stskeeps | 16:14 |
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| lopz | hi ;) | 16:20 |
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| RST38h | Robot: what is wrong with pidgin? | 16:23 |
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| wjt | RST38h: hey, let's ignore the well-integrated IM support in Maemo and add an application that looks kind of out of place | 16:25 |
| Shapeshifter | mhhh, there's no irssi for the n900 yet, right? | 16:27 |
| cosmo | the well-integrated im support sucks even more than pidgin in irc | 16:28 |
| Robot101 | RST38h: we've been working for 4 years, with Nokia, on Telepathy, an IM framework designed to allow the installation of 3rd party protocol plugins with totally native integration into the device Contacts, Conversations and Call | 16:28 |
| Robot101 | cosmo: multi-user chat is being worked on | 16:28 |
| aep | Shapeshifter: why would it have to be ported at all? | 16:28 |
| Shapeshifter | aep: I'm guessing it already exists for arm? | 16:28 |
| cosmo | Robot101: that would be nice. for fremantle? | 16:28 |
| aep | Shapeshifter: its C. just recompile | 16:29 |
| Robot101 | cosmo: yeah, a later software update | 16:29 |
| timeless_mbp | alterego: flash was blocked from camera access. | 16:29 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah. | 16:29 |
| timeless_mbp | but it could get gps via the js bridge + the gps extension | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Robot: So? | 16:29 |
| cosmo | Robot101: excellent! make it good :-) | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Robot: Pidgin is still pretty comfortable | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Robot: Maybe integrating it with Maemo IM framework is a more constructive idea? | 16:30 |
| Shapeshifter | aep: I meant more like a package in extras | 16:30 |
| Robot101 | RST38h: we have - there's a Telepathy backend which uses the protocol plugins from Pidgin... | 16:30 |
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| RST38h | Robot: No, vice versa | 16:31 |
| RST38h | Robot: Using plugins from Pidgin while denying Pidgin right to live is not very nice :) | 16:31 |
| Robot101 | RST38h: the point is, if there's going to be a big "GET PIDGIN" advert on maemo.org, why don't we all just give up and go home? I'd rather the Nokia sponsored maemo.org site promoted the technologies Nokia has been sponsoring, so at least its consistent and not a gigantic "f**k you" to their own developers who worked on designing and implementing the built-in stuff | 16:31 |
| aep | Shapeshifter: ah. | 16:31 |
| RST38h | Robot: What I meant though is accessing Maemo IM through Pidgin UI | 16:31 |
| toggles_w | kill the rat with wings | 16:32 |
| RST38h | Robot: Ok, I will give you my personal view on that | 16:32 |
| RST38h | Robot: As far as I am concerned, current Maemo IM is incomplete | 16:32 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: what's missing? | 16:33 |
| RST38h | Robot: Pidgin fills some holes left open in your implementation | 16:33 |
| Robot101 | the UI for conversations and contacts etc is designed for the device, wedging pidgin on top of that is just going to be bizzare | 16:33 |
| Robot101 | if at all possible | 16:33 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Cannot lookup details on a previously unknown guy who sent you a message | 16:33 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: you get messages from unknown guys? | 16:33 |
| glass_ | who doesn't | 16:33 |
| Robot101 | that's a known issue and planned to be fixed, I think | 16:33 |
| Shapeshifter | me | 16:33 |
| cosmo | just make the maemo ui better than pidgin and people start using it | 16:33 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: ICQ users who were offline at the moment they were added are left as UINs (no nicks no data) | 16:33 |
| glass_ | "hey, intrested in cheap glassware?" | 16:34 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Yes, sometimes | 16:34 |
| Robot101 | pidgin doesn't use e-d-s or telepathy or any of the underlying stuff, you can't just "make it use the framework" | 16:34 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: IRC plugin is disfunctional and the chatroom mode is not even implemented | 16:34 |
| Robot101 | barisione: ^^ when does eds-backend-tp retrieve aliases? | 16:34 |
| Shapeshifter | mh. I don't really seem to care about these. but I guess it's fixable in their IM thingy, and I find it looks damn well sexy. | 16:34 |
| RST38h | Robot: Well, can't you write some kind of pidgin plugin that connects to telepathy rater than directy to services? | 16:34 |
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| Robot101 | RST38h: IRC is planned to be fixed too | 16:34 |
| Shapeshifter | irssi is for IRC: | 16:34 |
| Robot101 | well, at least to have a chatroom mode in the UI | 16:35 |
| RST38h | Robot101: Well, at least process /msgs :) | 16:35 |
| Robot101 | these are all little tweak/polish things, not throw away 2+ years work. | 16:35 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: No way to exchange files via any of the services (Skype, ICQ, IRC, etc) | 16:35 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: I see. | 16:35 |
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| RST38h | Robot: They may feel like zsmall things to you, but to normal users who are used to them they may be show stoppers | 16:35 |
| Shapeshifter | yep | 16:35 |
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| Shapeshifter | I see the problem. | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | send files is annoying, yeah | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | sharing plugin for contacts could be useful | 16:36 |
| RST38h | Robot: Ironically, I absolutely LOVE N900's integrated unified IM :) | 16:36 |
| RST38h | Robot: Just wish it were complete with features people normally expect from IM | 16:36 |
| alterego | Does telepahy not have file transfer ability? | 16:36 |
| barisione | RST38h: I don't know how ICQ work as I didn't use it for centuries and I have no friends there | 16:36 |
| RST38h | Robot: I.e. stuff like ICQ Online Chess can burn in Hell :) | 16:36 |
| barisione | RST38h: but what you are describing could be due to a bug I'm fixing now | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | Well. Any of these protocolls should be killed anyway and all people should be forced to use jabber >.> | 16:37 |
| Shapeshifter | utopia. | 16:37 |
| RST38h | barisione: Well, it is regional | 16:37 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: s/Online Chess// | 16:37 |
| Robot101 | alterego: it does, we're going to implement a UI for it | 16:37 |
| alterego | Shapeshifter: what about facebook chat ;) | 16:37 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: distopia =) | 16:37 |
| Shapeshifter | arghhhhhh facebook chat DIE DIE | 16:37 |
| Shapeshifter | what an abomination | 16:37 |
| barisione | RST38h: it was very popular in italy before they had the service not working properly for italians for months | 16:37 |
| Robot101 | there are always rumours about facebook chat being secretly XMPP and them turning it on one day | 16:37 |
| barisione | RST38h: and everybody switched to MSN | 16:37 |
| Robot101 | but, the problem with facebook chat on the device before that is that it will *kill* battery | 16:38 |
| Robot101 | it makes a new HTTP connection every 30 seconds | 16:38 |
| Robot101 | crappy ajax hacks | 16:38 |
| Shapeshifter | I'm lucky no one really uses it here. People here like skype a lot. | 16:38 |
| Shapeshifter | which I hate because pidgin doesn't do it. | 16:38 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:38 |
| Shapeshifter | And skype for linux stinks | 16:38 |
| alterego | I don't use facebook chat much. | 16:38 |
| alterego | I use MSN mostly. | 16:38 |
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| suihkulokki | Shapeshifter: N900 does skype chat well | 16:39 |
| timeless_mbp | hey, does someone here have an n900 w/ the official emmc image? | 16:39 |
| * Corsac waits for nov 28 | 16:39 | |
| Corsac | >< | 16:39 |
| Shapeshifter | suihkulokki: yep. | 16:41 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes | 16:41 | |
| * mgedmin has a n900 and an official emmc image, but a n900 with the official emmc image | 16:41 | |
| * timeless_mbp tries to parse that | 16:42 | |
| * timeless_mbp keeps trying | 16:42 | |
| *** gnuton is now known as GNUton-BNC | 16:43 | |
| RST38h | barisione: What is MSN? Something having to deal with Microsoft Office Communicator? =) | 16:43 |
| Shapeshifter | how does the n900 support skype anyway? | 16:43 |
| Shapeshifter | I mean, technically | 16:43 |
| SpeedEvil | skype-sourced binary isn't it/ | 16:43 |
| Shapeshifter | The IM, you said its telepathy? does telepathy use the skype binary? | 16:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | with skype fully running in the background, just like with the pidgin hack plugin? | 16:44 |
| suihkulokki | RST38h: office communicator is different, it is supported by pidgin-sipe | 16:45 |
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| Shapeshifter | Anyway I find it awful that skype doesn't even own the sources to its own protocol. How weak. | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: hrm | 16:46 |
| Shapeshifter | why did ebay do that. | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | you mean that you find it awful that Nokia doesn't own the patents for all the Cellular bits? | 16:46 |
| Shapeshifter | morons. buying the app but not the source | 16:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | and no | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | it isn't a matter of source | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a matter of licensing | 16:46 |
| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: mh? in the beginning, the protocol and the skype app were developed by the same guy. | 16:46 |
| Shapeshifter | but he only sold the app | 16:47 |
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| Shapeshifter | timeless_mbp: well okay, licensing. But why would anyone agree to that? | 16:47 |
| RST38h | suihkulokki Somehow, I prefer to stay with ICQ, although it is definitely evil | 16:47 |
| Shapeshifter | he's evil. | 16:47 |
| RST38h | suihkulokki: But I do not want to have multiple evils in my contacts, one is enough | 16:47 |
| javispedro | moo | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: people agree to all sorts of things | 16:47 |
| Flandry | oom | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Flandry: you're out of memory? | 16:48 |
| zash | is there xmpp and/or jingle support? | 16:48 |
| Flandry | yeah | 16:48 |
| javispedro | not jingle afaik | 16:48 |
| javispedro | (yet) | 16:48 |
| Flandry | paging to disk, brb | 16:48 |
| Robot101 | jingle? yes | 16:48 |
| Robot101 | the N800 was the first device to support jingle ever :) | 16:48 |
| Shapeshifter | but this is bad for everyone. Except the guy owning the protocol. But it's stopping everything. I bet by now skype would have somewhat opened it's protocol if it could. Imagine other people writing skype clients for free and skype earning more bucks because people use their services even without using their client | 16:49 |
| javispedro | ah, forgot about audio, sorry. | 16:49 |
| Shapeshifter | It's so stupid. | 16:49 |
| Robot101 | video, well, lets see :) | 16:49 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway... | 16:49 |
| * RST38h moos at javispedro | 16:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | someone w/ an n900? | 16:49 |
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| TomaszD | yes | 16:49 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: I spoke to people reverse engineering Skype | 16:49 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: You do not really want to know what it does. | 16:50 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: >.> | 16:50 |
| Shapeshifter | sending all my mail to them, or what | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Actually, if you knew, you would probably remove it as a security risk | 16:50 |
| Shapeshifter | not this, but I've heard some evil stuff. | 16:50 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: well, tell me. | 16:50 |
| Shapeshifter | ;) | 16:50 |
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| zash | killall skype | 16:51 |
| zash | !!! | 16:51 |
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| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Gives Skype a lot of control over your machine, if Skype decides it wants the control | 16:51 |
| Shapeshifter | RST38h: I noticed that, sometimes when it crashes I can't kill it anymore even though it's not <defunct> | 16:51 |
| Shapeshifter | in any case it doesn't obey SIGKILL even though it should | 16:51 |
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| javispedro | that sounds like a kernel driver issue | 16:52 |
| zash | RST38h: shitcraps? | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Skypes fundamental problem is that it's a binary, with an undocumented protocol that is expected to punch through firewalls. | 16:53 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: punching through firewalls is trivial. | 16:53 |
| javispedro | and acts as a p2p protocol, which only adds to the injury | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | This means that a trojan exploiting holes in the skype client could gain _wide_ acceptance. | 16:53 |
| * Shapeshifter is reading http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&ved=0CBYQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secdev.org%2Fconf%2Fskype_BHEU06.handout.pdf&ei=JAoES8XILJqamAORiKF_&usg=AFQjCNFmpVp7BgrwjgH5TDq7rZwp5S78Cw&sig2=Ef54KyEwvEsahndaqdL6Pw | 16:53 | |
| Shapeshifter | mhh. long link. | 16:53 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: According to what I heard, Skype itself IS a trojan | 16:54 |
| zash | hugeurl.com ! | 16:54 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Just not being actively used by the company | 16:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: Sure - but being expected to in the normal course of operations isn't. | 16:54 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: um. it's pretty much essential for a voip client, tbh. | 16:54 |
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| lbt | if SIP wasn't so crap then Skype would have some competition.... | 16:55 |
| ccooke | and I'd happily accept it from most IM clients, too | 16:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | ccooke: Having a binary only undocumented client however is not. | 16:56 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: quite. | 16:56 |
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| ccooke | SpeedEvil: it's the only serious difference with skype, anyway - we know the protocol of every other IM/voip system | 16:57 |
| SpeedEvil | My problem isn't even the undocumented protocol, it's the remote code execution possibilities on bugs. | 16:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Do I trust skype not to do the trojan thing - maybe. | 16:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | Do I trust them to write 100% bug-free code - well no. | 16:57 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: to be honest, they're no worse than any other client. | 16:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: err | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: russian mafia and getting ahead in lucrative business by grabbing documents? ;) | 16:59 |
| ccooke | every single IM client might have remote execution bugs. There's nothing seriously different about skype's implementation that creates greater risk other than the obscurity of closed source. | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | you realize that Skype's code is audited occasionally, right? | 16:59 |
| SpeedEvil | ccooke: widespread distribution. | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | do you trust Nokia's code? | 16:59 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: I diddn't actually, no. | 16:59 |
| ccooke | SpeedEvil: no, not really. AIM, yahoo, etc have similar distribution | 17:00 |
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| * timeless_mbp is pretty sure skype's code has been at times | 17:00 | |
| RST38h | Sts: Baltic mafia =) | 17:00 |
| * lbt glances at scratchboxisms and othe hacks in maemo packages | 17:00 | |
| RST38h | Sts: I remember Skype being a .EE-based company or something | 17:00 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: been what? | 17:00 |
| zash | .ee? | 17:00 |
| RST38h | Estonia | 17:01 |
| zash | RST38h: .se? | 17:01 |
| pupnik_ | RST38h: did you catch the new hints about performance from kontto yesterday? heaphone jack? 1000hz filter? | 17:01 |
| javispedro | paranoidly talking about what closed source code REALLY does? time to call RMS! | 17:01 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Yea, cute =) | 17:01 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Not something I can do anything about | 17:01 |
| Shapeshifter | I think the easiest way of "reverse engineering" the protocol and binary is to go to his house and force it out of him 24 style ;) | 17:01 |
| pupnik_ | i dont see an option to disable in /etc/ | 17:01 |
| RST38h | pupnik: But at least he is saying compositing support is in the latest hildon-desktop in git | 17:01 |
| javispedro | and on the sdk | 17:02 |
| pupnik_ | for sdl? | 17:02 |
| RST38h | pupnik: i.e. compositing that we can use at app level to created scaled display surfaces for emulators | 17:02 |
| javispedro | I tried yesterday | 17:02 |
| pupnik_ | very good of them to have prioritised that | 17:02 |
| pupnik_ | respect | 17:02 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: That method is known as thermorectal cryptoanalysis | 17:02 |
| javispedro | note though that the only way I know to use it is creating another x11 window | 17:02 |
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| RST38h | javis: Which is wrong | 17:02 |
| RST38h | And here is konttori =) | 17:03 |
| javispedro | which is rather ... hard in SDL and probably will require editing the actual librayr. | 17:03 |
| javispedro | hi konttori | 17:03 |
| pupnik_ | this is the sort of thing that one person needs to write once, and the rest of uss cut and paste :) | 17:03 |
| javispedro | agreed. | 17:03 |
| konttori | sup? | 17:04 |
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| javispedro | konttori: tested your code snippet on sdk yesterday, worked well. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | javis: I guess Xv wuld be the right place to do this | 17:04 |
| konttori | javispedro: great to hear that. | 17:04 |
| javispedro | konttori: even though I couldn't find a way to use it without creating a new X11 window | 17:04 |
| konttori | javispedro: did you test with also sdl window? | 17:04 |
| RST38h | javis: I would prefer /dev/db0 FBIO_SET?SCREENINFO but that would be selfish :) | 17:04 |
| RST38h | fb0 | 17:05 |
| RST38h | javis, konttori: gentlemen, can I have that code snippet? =) | 17:06 |
| RST38h | or a reference to it? | 17:06 |
| javispedro | konttori: i have to check if sdl is using an extra x11 window for the actual framebuffer, but if it's not, it would not look pretty if I just make the parent window send the actual scale messages | 17:07 |
| javispedro | RST38h: wait a bit, looking up | 17:07 |
| javispedro | RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=365844&postcount=1 | 17:08 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: looks scary ( Cairo _is_ scary ;) ) but the actual scaling stuff is simple | 17:09 |
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| RST38h | javis: Thanks | 17:10 |
| tbf | javispedro: actually cairo is pretty nice if you got how it works | 17:10 |
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| RST38h | javis: Actually, it looks ok | 17:11 |
| RST38h | javis: Looks like a special GTK widget, basically, that lets you scale the contents | 17:11 |
| javispedro | that's the idea | 17:11 |
| RST38h | javis: I do not see XWindow there though | 17:11 |
| javispedro | hildonanimationactor wraps it | 17:11 |
| RST38h | javis: Ah! But that is ok | 17:12 |
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| RST38h | Gtk wraps all kinds of XWindows, as long as I do not see them I am ok | 17:12 |
| javispedro | and then uses xatoms as a pseudoipc system to command hildon-desktop | 17:12 |
| RST38h | javis: I am really ok with that as long as it is hidden | 17:13 |
| RST38h | javis: The problem I see though is that it cannot be used with /dev/fb0 | 17:13 |
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| RST38h | javis: So, at the end, using this for full screen may be more expensive than CPU based scaling to fb0 | 17:13 |
| javispedro | might. | 17:14 |
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| javispedro | but of course, some people want to be composited ;) | 17:14 |
| javispedro | in which case uploading the least amount of information to the powervr and letting it work its way works | 17:14 |
| RST38h | it will probably work better than GtkImage + CPU scaling | 17:15 |
| RST38h | Will have to test | 17:15 |
| javispedro | and of course the vr lets you do nearest filters and all that stuff for free | 17:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | right | 17:17 |
| timeless_mbp | so no one here is willing to admit to possession of an n900? | 17:17 |
| javispedro | yes, you got me! | 17:17 |
| w00t_ | I'd admit to it, unfortunately, I don't have one yet ;-) | 17:17 |
| javispedro | damn me! | 17:17 |
| RST38h | javis: I do my own nearest filters ;) | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: can you follow these steps? | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. open task launcher | 17:18 |
| RST38h | javis: And blizzard did alntialiasing too ;) | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. open "More..." | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. open File Manager | 17:18 |
| javispedro | no, I was lying :) | 17:18 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 17:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | someone, anyone,? | 17:18 |
| javispedro | but hey, if you think the same happens on diablo.. | 17:18 |
| fragment | timeless_mbp: I have one | 17:18 |
| lbt | ooh, it has a file mgr | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | 4. Open "Documents" | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | 5. Open "User Guides" | 17:19 |
| aSIMULAter | hi timeless | 17:19 |
| lbt | 4, FAIL | 17:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | hi aSIMULAter | 17:19 |
| lbt | it says <hostname> | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm 3.5. Open n900 | 17:19 |
| lbt | gotcha | 17:19 |
| lbt | hmm | 17:19 |
| * lbt notes that the file mgr calls my device by name despite the dhcp "we're too anal to name the device" bug | 17:20 | |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: looking at guides | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | 6. Open the User_Guide_English_index.html | 17:20 |
| lbt | guides just vanished | 17:20 |
| * lbt strokes screen | 17:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | 7. scroll down to "Manage time" | 17:21 |
| RST38h | "Afghan minister allegedly bribed" (C)WashPost | 17:21 |
| * lbt has german guide ... eek | 17:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | 8. tap that | 17:21 |
| RST38h | Is that news? =) | 17:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: that it's reported is news | 17:21 |
| timeless_mbp | 9. switch back to file manager | 17:22 |
| timeless_mbp | 10. Open User_Guide_English-US_index.html | 17:22 |
| lbt | *nod* | 17:22 |
| timeless_mbp | 11. scroll down to "Manage time" | 17:22 |
| timeless_mbp | 12. tap that | 17:22 |
| timeless_mbp | -- i believe you should have 3 windows open (file manager, browser[manage time], browser[manage time]) | 17:23 |
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| lbt | yes | 17:23 |
| timeless_mbp | -- what's the last line of text on your screen in those browser windows? | 17:23 |
| lbt | well, the 1st one has "view the calendar" (but I had to enable the status bar to allow a task switch) | 17:24 |
| timeless_mbp | -- to the peanut gallery, this depends on the default font size lbt is using (Small, Medium, Large) | 17:24 |
| fragment | when browser in full screen? | 17:24 |
| lbt | 2nd same | 17:24 |
| timeless_mbp | ok. please compare that line again. | 17:24 |
| lbt | add and edit events | 17:25 |
| timeless_mbp | or that line | 17:25 |
| lbt | yep, same on both | 17:25 |
| fragment | with and without . | 17:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | fragment: aha! | 17:25 |
| * timeless_mbp waits for lbt to catch up | 17:25 | |
| lbt | yep, the browser views are the same | 17:26 |
| timeless_mbp | fragment was saying that the views aren't /quite/ the same | 17:26 |
| lbt | if 'small' then "view the calendar" | 17:26 |
| timeless_mbp | (i believe) | 17:26 |
| lbt | if fullscreen then "add and edit events" | 17:26 |
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| fragment | "View the calendar" vs "View the calendar." | 17:26 |
| lcuk2 | thanks crashanddie | 17:27 |
| VDVsx | please test and vote : http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/madbomber/0.2.5-3maemo13/ | 17:27 |
| * VDVsx wants it in Extras :p | 17:27 | |
| * lbt notes that "User Guide" is bloody well buried! | 17:27 | |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: good thing too! | 17:27 |
| zaheerm-lp | look at top article on www.theregister.co.uk | 17:27 |
| dneary | lbt: Hello? | 17:27 |
| lbt | dneary: hi | 17:27 |
| timeless_mbp | given the errors visible at the first screen of this page :) | 17:27 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Tonight, ok? | 17:27 |
| dneary | Which user guide? Buried how? | 17:27 |
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| VDVsx | RST38h, :) | 17:28 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: I did note the instructions seemed wrong | 17:28 |
| lbt | dneary: on-device | 17:28 |
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| VDVsx | zaheerm-lp, yup, someone dropped the bomb yesterday, you was there probably :P | 17:29 |
| RST38h | Btw, what is geotoad? | 17:29 |
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| dneary | lbt: Ah | 17:29 |
| dneary | OK | 17:29 |
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| VDVsx | S/was/were/ | 17:29 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Someone at Maemo Devices will get punished over this =) | 17:29 |
| dneary | Don't care about that. | 17:29 |
| dneary | :) | 17:29 |
| Flandry | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/ | 17:30 |
| dneary | VDVsx, Will you be in Barcelona? | 17:30 |
| VDVsx | dneary, think so:) | 17:30 |
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| zaheerm-lp | VDVsx, no i am in barcelona :) | 17:30 |
| dneary | Cool! | 17:30 |
| Flandry | could use some testing there too. It's been in testing for over a week with only one vote | 17:30 |
| dneary | Will you be joining in the docs session for part of Saturday? | 17:30 |
| * zaheerm-lp is in barcelona 3 times in 4 weeks :) | 17:30 | |
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| lbt | timeless_mbp: done? | 17:30 |
| VDVsx | dneary, dunno, depends on the UX activities | 17:31 |
| dneary | 'kay | 17:31 |
| dneary | I'll try to drag you in for a while (in the morning maybe) | 17:31 |
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| lbt | dneary: did you ever get syncevolution working? | 17:31 |
| lbt | over usb? | 17:31 |
| dneary | lbt: In a limited way | 17:32 |
| dneary | Syncs often fail | 17:32 |
| dneary | Over IP | 17:32 |
| lbt | to a linux desktop? | 17:32 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm-lp, great, we're counting on you for the best bars/night places ,hihihi | 17:32 |
| lbt | anything!!! | 17:32 |
| dneary | To Google Calendar and gmail | 17:32 |
| zaheerm-lp | VDVsx, i don't drink :P | 17:32 |
| lbt | gah! | 17:32 |
| lbt | :) | 17:32 |
| zaheerm-lp | VDVsx, but foodwise i have a few recommendations | 17:32 |
| * lbt wanted an open solution ;) | 17:32 | |
| VDVsx | zaheerm-lp, that's not a valid excuse ;) | 17:32 |
| VDVsx | I'm kidding ;) | 17:33 |
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| zaheerm-lp | lbt, easy, we ask google to free the code for calendar and gmail and their deps :) | 17:34 |
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| lbt | zaheerm-lp: should be easier than getting an open contact sync out of Nokia .... mutter | 17:35 |
| zaheerm-lp | lbt, lol | 17:36 |
| * lbt goes to research curses to aim at Nokia | 17:36 | |
| zaheerm-lp | who told them to do syncml just over bt/usb | 17:36 |
| zaheerm-lp | muppets | 17:36 |
| zaheerm-lp | :) | 17:36 |
| Shapeshifter | who does syncml over bt/usb? | 17:37 |
| * ccooke finds the video of somoene using a palm pre to cut cheese | 17:38 | |
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| ccooke | lbt: what did they do this time? | 17:38 |
| lbt | N900 | 17:39 |
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| zash | ccooke: 1up it by building a cheese-slicer? into the n910! | 17:39 |
| lbt | syncml won't talk to linux | 17:39 |
| ccooke | zash: no thanks | 17:39 |
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| ccooke | lbt: ah. It never did, really | 17:39 |
| lbt | I can sync my linux phone to exchange... | 17:39 |
| Shapeshifter | lbt: I thought the n900 only does exchange. | 17:39 |
| lbt | No, it's just the N900 | 17:39 |
| ccooke | syncml has never had a reliable, working implementation on linux | 17:39 |
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| lbt | most wince phones (syncml) will sync to linux desktops... | 17:40 |
| Khertan | hi | 17:40 |
| lbt | ccooke: flakey and crap would be an improvement on nowt | 17:40 |
| ccooke | I've tried with four phones and another two or three devices.. | 17:40 |
| ccooke | lbt: ah. | 17:40 |
| ccooke | lbt: hmm. Proxy time :-) | 17:40 |
| Khertan | lbt: most wince phone can delete your contact with syncml on linux desktop | 17:40 |
| * lbt wonders if the contacts 'backup' may be a place to start... | 17:41 | |
| Khertan | but i ll not call this a sync | 17:41 |
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| lbt | Khertan as it stands I can't get *anything* from the device to the desktop | 17:42 |
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| Khertan | lbt ? really ? | 17:42 |
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| lbt | *nod* | 17:42 |
| lbt | any suggestions? | 17:42 |
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| lbt | gnokii - nope via usb or AT | 17:43 |
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| lbt | syncml via syncevolution 0.9 ... recognise, no connect | 17:43 |
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| lbt | obex - similar | 17:43 |
| lbt | not tried bluetooth yet | 17:43 |
| lbt | hell, it won't talk to my old 3110 - which would talk to gnokii | 17:44 |
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| ccooke | lbt: odd. | 17:45 |
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| Khertan | lbt gnoki on your desktop linux | 17:46 |
| Khertan | it s works | 17:46 |
| lbt | it's pretty crap but yes | 17:46 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:46 |
| lbt | I got an ldif out of my 3110 | 17:46 |
| lbt | which was all I needed | 17:47 |
| Khertan | i ve sync my 6500s directly by bluetooth with the n900 | 17:47 |
| ccooke | Hum. | 17:47 |
| lbt | *nod* my 3110 is probably too old/simple | 17:47 |
| reed | Stskeeps: it seems that Nokia licensed Funambol c++ sdk and decided to re-license it as non-free in Maemo5 | 17:47 |
| RST38h | Promoting VGBA 3.6.7-1 to testing | 17:47 |
| ccooke | Perhaps our own version of syncml would be better than trusting the Nokia one. | 17:47 |
| Khertan | but i understand that it s works only if the 6500s have a sim card :) | 17:47 |
| RST38h | Whoever wants it in Extras, TEST AND VOTE | 17:47 |
| ccooke | it's a reasonably standard protocol, after all. | 17:47 |
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| reed | ccooke: Funambol is syncml, server and a few clietns | 17:48 |
| Jaffa | wjt: thanks :) | 17:49 |
| amit_usual | Hi can some one tell me what has python-gpsbt been replaced by in maemo5 for gps | 17:49 |
| lizardo | amit_usual: there is no replacement for it yet :( | 17:50 |
| konttori | javispedro: RST38h: Ideally you guys should be able to just set the XAtoms and have thus any window scaled (no need to be gtk) | 17:50 |
| lizardo | amit_usual: the GPS API has changed by the liblocation one, and there are no bindings for it yet | 17:50 |
| amit_usual | any planned soon | 17:50 |
| amit_usual | ? | 17:50 |
| javispedro | konttori: but afaik (from reading hildonanimationactor docs) scaled windows need a parent window | 17:51 |
| RST38h | konttori: Are you sure XAtoms is the right way to do it? | 17:51 |
| * RST38h admits he has never used XAtoms for anything | 17:51 | |
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| Stskeeps | reed: well that's the conditions of dual license projects.. | 17:52 |
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| reed | Stskeeps: sure; no question about that ... I'm simply wondering why Nokia did not release its modifications: old proprietary habits or something else? | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | reed: there's the factor you forget about.. time | 17:54 |
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| reed | Stskeeps: time goes into the 'something else' category ... perfectly reasonable | 17:54 |
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| Stskeeps | reed: it takes time to pass things through legal check so | 17:55 |
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| Flyser | http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1355897 | 17:59 |
| microlith | yay, now where's my shipping notice | 18:00 |
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| lizardo | amit_usual: I am not aware of any short term plans yet, but there is an open bug on it : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5748 , also see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5748#c1 , maybe it might work for you | 18:08 |
| povbot | Bug 5748: Add bindings to liblocation | 18:08 |
| povbot | Bug 5748: Add bindings to liblocation | 18:08 |
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| VDVsx | oh, the new firmware plays nice with my router, no need to disable power saving anymore :D | 18:09 |
| javispedro | yeah, the corresponding bug report was marked as fixed :) | 18:10 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, what was it doing before with your router? | 18:10 |
| RST38h | that is censored. | 18:10 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, with power saving enabled, the connection was always dropping | 18:10 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, also....have you noticed resolv.conf not updating with the new firmware on connection to wifi? | 18:11 |
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| VDVsx | zaheerm, nop | 18:11 |
| zaheerm | i want to know what the rules for when it updates resolv.conf are | 18:11 |
| qwerty12 | zaheerm: It's not meant to update; dnsmasq is running a reason | 18:11 |
| RST38h | "There's a rounding-error bug in the camera driver's autofocus routine (which uses a timestamp) that causes autofocus to behave poorly on a 24.5-day cycle. That is, it'll work for 24.5 days, then have poor performance for 24.5 days, then work again." | 18:11 |
| zaheerm | mine i am having to edit whenever i move | 18:11 |
| qwerty12 | +for | 18:11 |
| RST38h | Don't you just LOVE Android? =) | 18:11 |
| zaheerm | qwerty12, so how can i debug that? | 18:11 |
| zaheerm | RST38h, lol | 18:12 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, great bug :P | 18:12 |
| qwerty12 | zaheerm: No idea, "nameserver 127.0.0.1" has always worked for me | 18:12 |
| zaheerm | qwerty12, aah so resolv.conf doesn't change ever? | 18:12 |
| qwerty12 | Nope :) | 18:13 |
| zaheerm | explains it! | 18:13 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, almost at the same level as the Zune 'dates' bug | 18:13 |
| zaheerm | so the first time i changed it, it must have been that the dns server was borked | 18:13 |
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| lardman | anyone know how to enable macro mode on the N900 using gst_photography_*() calls? | 18:15 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: Well, it is like the famous moon phase bug of yore | 18:19 |
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| VDVsx | RST38h, dunno that one o_0, but seems neat :P | 18:19 |
| zaheerm | lardman, http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/gst-plugins-bad/blobs/maemo5/gst-libs/gst/interfaces/photography.h | 18:20 |
| zaheerm | lardman, that's the api | 18:20 |
| zaheerm | lardman, GST_PHOTOGRAPHY_SCENE_MODE_CLOSEUP for macro mode | 18:20 |
| lardman | ah, that's the one | 18:21 |
| lardman | thanks | 18:21 |
| * lardman wonders what's wrong with the standard "macro" term...? ;) | 18:21 | |
| suihkulokki | RST38h: that's 2^31 msec =) | 18:22 |
| zaheerm | no worries, i've never used or had any influence with the api :) | 18:22 |
| lardman | :) | 18:22 |
| javispedro | moon phase bug! interesting :) | 18:23 |
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| suihkulokki | RST38h: there was a infamous "click to focus stops working after 49 days" in wmaker that took years to find =) | 18:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | suihkulokki: And openoffice won't print on tuesdays. | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | better than mondays | 18:25 |
| * lbt plugs printer into N900 to test.... oh, wait... | 18:25 | |
| zash | wat | 18:26 |
| Shapeshifter | what's this "MPD" everyone refers to on the forums? | 18:27 |
| Shapeshifter | it's not mpd, that's for use... | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Mobile Phones Direct | 18:27 |
| Shapeshifter | s/use/sure/ | 18:27 |
| infobot | Shapeshifter meant: it's not mpd, that's for sure... | 18:27 |
| * Pavlov_ wonders where in the US is actually shipping n900s | 18:27 | |
| Shapeshifter | ah | 18:27 |
| greenfly | Pavlov_: according to the press release it looked like it would start in "flagship" stores in certain major cities | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.nokiaretail.co.uk/Brands/Nokia/Nseries-Multimedia-Phones/sb489/p26078.htm#tabsAnchor | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | mobilephonesdirect.co.uk redirects htere now | 18:28 |
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| Pavlov_ | ah | 18:28 |
| Pavlov_ | could be NY and Chicago | 18:28 |
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| Pavlov_ | ill see if i can convince someone in NY to go check it out | 18:29 |
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| Shapeshifter | I don't really see why everyone's so on edge because the phone is a bit late | 18:30 |
| CoreFusion- | indeed.. and it's not even that late from what was told | 18:30 |
| * CoreFusion- going to make something to eat... | 18:30 | |
| ccooke | Shapeshifter: because it might all turn out to have been a cruel lie and there really *is* no n900. The summit was a lie - we were all hypnotised. | 18:30 |
| Shapeshifter | right | 18:30 |
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| fabrice | Hi all, anyone knows if pngenc in gstreamer is available for diablo? I can't find it in any package | 18:30 |
| ccooke | All the pre-releases were faked by marketing people. It's *actually* a psychology experiment. | 18:31 |
| lardman | ccooke: and I'm hypnotically listening to music on mine | 18:31 |
| ccooke | lardman: no, you're a plant. | 18:32 |
| ccooke | so are half the people here. It's all a Conspiracy, see | 18:32 |
| Shapeshifter | and Nokia is actually called hypnokia | 18:33 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, out of curiosity what app you making that uses the photography api? | 18:33 |
| lardman | barcode scanner | 18:33 |
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| lardman | I needed autofocus and for the N900 I really need macro mode too | 18:33 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, aah ok do you know that ensonic (Stefan Kost) has been working on barcode gst elements etc. | 18:34 |
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| lardman | I almost pushed it to extras-devel at lunch time, but it failed to build, which is good as the dialogs are still locking it up | 18:34 |
| lardman | yes, I saw his gst element | 18:34 |
| lardman | only issue atm is that I have to use both zbar (which he uses) and also libsmtx | 18:34 |
| lardman | libdmtx even | 18:34 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, i talked to him at GSoC mentor summit where we were the Gst mentors present | 18:34 |
| zaheerm-lp | lardman, libdmtx is for different barcodes? | 18:35 |
| lardman | cool, I met him last year in Berlin | 18:35 |
| fabrice | lardman, is the gst element pngenc available on the n900 ? | 18:35 |
| lardman | yeah, zbar does 1D and Qr (thanks derf ;)) and libdmtx does datamatrix | 18:35 |
| lardman | fabrice: no idea, sorry | 18:35 |
| zaheerm-lp | fabrice, yes | 18:35 |
| fabrice | zaheerm-lp, just asking because on my N810/Diablo I can't find it | 18:36 |
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| zaheerm-lp | fabrice, you probably need to package up a gst-plugins-good-png with just the png elements | 18:36 |
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| fabrice | zaheerm-lp, you mean it's not part of a standard package in a repo ? | 18:37 |
| zaheerm-lp | fabrice, i guess, it is in maemo5 | 18:37 |
| fabrice | ok thanks | 18:37 |
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| Shapeshifter | I like this forum post: | 18:49 |
| Shapeshifter | So now the N900 has been "shipped", has "landed" and is "available". What are the next steps between "available" and "in my freaking hands"? | 18:49 |
| nomis | heh :) | 18:49 |
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| Stskeeps | Shapeshifter: ???, obviously | 18:50 |
| zaheerm-lp | Shapeshifter, you pay the shop some money :P | 18:50 |
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| zaheerm-lp | aah lol didn't see the "i like this forum post:" part | 18:51 |
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| Stskeeps | does anyone know if libicd-network-dummy exists for fremantle? | 18:52 |
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| javispedro | the package does. | 18:52 |
| javispedro | nokia-binaries | 18:52 |
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| Shapeshifter | damn, norwegian sound good | 18:58 |
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| Shapeshifter | I only understand about every 20th word, but it sounds brilliant | 18:58 |
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| zaheerm-lp | qwerty12, thx! i figured out that the place where i first noticed the problem seems not to provide valid dns servers to the n900 on dhcp | 19:00 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, RST38h your emus are in the nokia N900 extravaganza videos :P | 19:00 |
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| Anwarboy11 | has anyone got a retail version on the n900 yet? | 19:01 |
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| zaheerm-lp | Anwarboy11, i'm guessing many will tomorrow | 19:01 |
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| qwerty12 | zaheerm-lp: :) | 19:02 |
| zaheerm-lp | Anwarboy11, it is for sale in nokia flagship store, london tomorrow | 19:02 |
| Anwarboy11 | any nes from Mobilephones direct? | 19:02 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: ta! | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: you are referring to Maemo summit Travel page, not the barcelona one | 19:02 |
| Anwarboy11 | news* | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | zaheerm-lp: they retracted that though | 19:02 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, ups | 19:02 |
| Anwarboy11 | i orderd from mpd, havnt even recieved an email to confirm dispatch | 19:02 |
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| zaheerm-lp | Anwarboy11, your only option is to speak to them directly | 19:03 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, thanks | 19:03 |
| Anwarboy11 | ive tried phoning , never ever get a line through | 19:04 |
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| VDVsx | "They should include PS3,Xbox360 & Nintendo Wii emulators!!!" @youtube comment | 19:04 |
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| mikkov | Has anybody got bluetooth pan working? | 19:05 |
| qwerty12 | VDVsx: It's YouTube, go figure... | 19:05 |
| zaheerm-lp | VDVsx, you have edited wiki wrong, Tuesday is not 3/12 :) | 19:05 |
| * VDVsx thinks that 90% of the people that comments on youtube is a bit retard | 19:05 | |
| zaheerm-lp | VDVsx, Thursday is :) | 19:05 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm-lp, grrr | 19:05 |
| * qwerty12 still maintains that the world's retards adopt the comment section on YouTube as a second home | 19:05 | |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12++ | 19:06 |
| zaheerm-lp | first home is the long threads on t.m.o about shipping? :) | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | Ooh, good point | 19:06 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm-lp, fixed, thanks :) | 19:07 |
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| CoreFusion- | VDVsx: Is BlueMaemo ready for N900? | 19:11 |
| lardman | sounds dodgy every time ;) | 19:12 |
| VDVsx | CoreFusion-, nop, the new UI is now finished yet :( | 19:12 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Maemo, not "Movie" ;) | 19:12 |
| lardman | ah! | 19:12 |
| VDVsx | CoreFusion-, but I'll send a working version to -devel today or tomorrow | 19:12 |
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| fabrice | can anyone with a N900 tell me if the this works : gst-launch v4l2src num-buffers=1 ! video/x-raw-rgb,width=640,height=480,framerate=8/1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoscale ! video/x-raw-yuv, width=320, height=240 ! jpegenc ! filesink location=test.jpg | 19:13 |
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| zaheerm-lp | fabrice, v4l2camsrc is preferred to v4l2src | 19:14 |
| CoreFusion- | VDVsx: Sounds good, I can help testing it out once I get my N900 | 19:14 |
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| fabrice | zaheerm, ok. Does it capture a frame as expected ? | 19:15 |
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| zaheerm | fabrice, not sure will test later... | 19:15 |
| VDVsx | CoreFusion-, Thanks, actually I some testers with MAC OS or PS3 :) | 19:15 |
| fabrice | zaheerm, thanks. | 19:15 |
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| zaheerm | looking at pipeline, why are you requesting 640x480 from the camera and not allowing any res? | 19:15 |
| zaheerm | or why not ask for 320x240 ? | 19:16 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | qwerty12, also bear in mind http://xkcd.com/481/ | 19:16 |
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| fabrice | zaheerm, just because this is waht works on my N810 and I'm a gstreamer rookie ;) | 19:16 |
| lardman | 8,1 won't work | 19:17 |
| qwerty12 | CutMeOwnThroat: Hehe | 19:17 |
| lardman | 8/1 even | 19:17 |
| VDVsx | :P | 19:17 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | qwerty12, the really funny thing seems to be this: http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/10/08/youtube-audio-preview/ | 19:17 |
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| CoreFusion- | VDVsx: Unfortunately I use windoes systems: Win7 / XP (I did think for a brief moment if I dare to put that here :P) | 19:18 |
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| qwerty12 | CutMeOwnThroat: I'm looking at http://www.chrisfinke.com/addons/youtube-comment-snob/ - sounds perfect! | 19:18 |
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| VDVsx | CoreFusion-, should work fine with Win :) | 19:20 |
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| VDVsx | qwerty12, lol, good luck with that | 19:21 |
| lcuk | CutMeOwnThroat, qwerty12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciG-Xs7mBwU | 19:21 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | qwerty12, that's missing the use of "u" "r" "ur" etc. ... and anyway - if it's filtering away all comments, you could just as well not have looked at them... | 19:21 |
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| qwerty12 | CutMeOwnThroat: That's the plan :) | 19:22 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, that's very annoying in some site (eg. endgaget) | 19:22 |
| VDVsx | s/site/sites/ | 19:23 |
| infobot | VDVsx meant: lcuk, that's very annoying in some sites (eg. endgaget) | 19:23 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: Heh, I don't mind "First!", TBH. Although, I do see its pointlessness... | 19:23 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | lcuk, but... that's a totally different phenomenon | 19:25 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | but I do see it'd get old pretty soon if people read things and reacted to each other, wrote insightful comments... | 19:25 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | so "thank god that doesn't happen because we have youtube"? | 19:29 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | actually considering how forums turn people into morons, you really get a good chuckle out of enders game | 19:30 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | but that was already in another xkcd | 19:30 |
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| GiantTalkingCow | I've never understood why xkcd is popular, to be honest. | 19:32 |
| Myrtti | you has faile dthen | 19:33 |
| Myrtti | xkcd ♥ | 19:33 |
| Myrtti | Joanna ♥ | 19:33 |
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| GiantTalkingCow | Who? | 19:33 |
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| Myrtti | GiantTalkingCow: http://xkcd.com/322 | 19:36 |
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| GiantTalkingCow | The thing is that no one's acted like that on IRC for at least 10 years. WoW, maybe. | 19:38 |
| Myrtti | weird that - I used to get that almost once a month, now that I've quit almost all my irc channels, less | 19:39 |
| GiantTalkingCow | Really? Which network? | 19:39 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders an ironic comment. | 19:39 | |
| GiantTalkingCow | Let's hear it. | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Naah. It'd be udderly tasteless. | 19:40 |
| Myrtti | moo | 19:40 |
| Myrtti | :-D | 19:40 |
| GiantTalkingCow | Baaaa. | 19:41 |
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| hrw | morning | 19:53 |
| javispedro | morn | 19:54 |
| hrw | argh.. it is week since Nokia locked cash on my card and still no shipment... | 19:55 |
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| CoreFusion- | where do you live? | 19:56 |
| hrw | Poland | 19:56 |
| javispedro | DDP? | 19:56 |
| lardman | hi hrw | 19:56 |
| javispedro | they're not shipping DDP units yet. just grabbing the money it seems.. | 19:56 |
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| hrw | javispedro: ddp | 19:57 |
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| wazd | Windows 7 installation on ASUS notebook causes big red ERROR! sign. Fail. | 19:57 |
| CoreFusion- | tell me more | 19:58 |
| javispedro | yeah, not news :) | 19:58 |
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| hrw | win7... none of my laptops is good enough for it. no disk space | 20:01 |
| GiantTalkingCow | It's not worthwhile. Actually, Windows hasn't been for years now. | 20:01 |
| CoreFusion- | Win7 is actually quite good | 20:02 |
| CoreFusion- | it's what vista was supposed to be | 20:02 |
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| GiantTalkingCow | It has a horrible UI designed by monkeys and not enough new features to justify it for desktop use. | 20:02 |
| hrw | CoreFusion-: I have xp home on one lap and xp pro on other | 20:03 |
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| hrw | CoreFusion-: xph one has just 40GB disc... | 20:03 |
| lardman | hmm, just consumed a whole packet of Pringles, lucky the wife's not here yet to tell me off | 20:03 |
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| lardman | yay! sorted my dialog problems :) | 20:05 |
| qwerty12 | ...by eating Pringles? | 20:05 |
| lardman | it helped :) | 20:05 |
| lardman | nah, had to go async | 20:06 |
| SpeedEvil | async pringles? | 20:06 |
| lardman | eating while typing | 20:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Once you pop, you can stop for variable periods? | 20:06 |
| lardman | no, unfortunately the period length is capped at about 5s | 20:07 |
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| lardman | so for 90 pringles, you have less than 10min | 20:07 |
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| * SpeedEvil is eating diet food. | 20:08 | |
| lardman | green things? | 20:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Roast pork, cabbage, potatos, gravy and applesauce. | 20:08 |
| lardman | mmmmmm | 20:09 |
| lardman | asynchronously too from the looks of it, or do you have a wipe clean kb? | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | With a mini pork pie to start. | 20:09 |
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| lardman | lol | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | (I however have lost ~5Kg last month. | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | And the portion is about half of what I'd usually have. | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | A barcode aware diet app would be so cool | 20:10 |
| lardman | yeah, I'm thinking about cutting back and filling the gap with alcohol | 20:10 |
| GiantTalkingCow | You know, it's funny... with all sorts of ridiculously fatty foods being popular in the US, the non-dessert pie has never caught on here. | 20:11 |
| lcuk | lardman, setup a positive pressure keyboard to keep the crumbs and stuff out | 20:11 |
| lcuk | you might have to wear gloves to code tho cos it will be cold. | 20:11 |
| lardman | :) | 20:11 |
| lcuk | at least you can play air hockey with your pen when you are bored | 20:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: md5sum /dev/zero - problem solved | 20:12 |
| lardman | hmm, good to see Garage is as quick as ever ;) | 20:12 |
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| lardman | is the autobuilder broken? | 20:13 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: No, it just knew you were about to upload to it | 20:14 |
| lardman | I'm getting lots of pkg-config errors | 20:14 |
| lardman | or rather I got earlier today | 20:14 |
| lardman | I'll try again and see if the pringles have helped | 20:15 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Hint: Build-Depends is there to be updated... | 20:16 |
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| lardman | hmm | 20:16 |
| lardman | sounds like nasty debianisation stuff | 20:16 |
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| lardman | oh, I need to add those things in there, balls | 20:17 |
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| lardman | but really, hildon-1, I can't need a Build-Depends on that can I? | 20:19 |
| * microlith cheers as all of the holds nokia posted against his account have fallen off | 20:19 | |
| qwerty12 | libhildon1-dev | 20:20 |
| qwerty12 | ^ lardman | 20:20 |
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| lardman | this is the problem with guis, too many annoying deps! | 20:20 |
| lardman | ;) | 20:20 |
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| dneary | lardman: GUIs, or Debian. | 20:23 |
| dneary | Take your pick :) | 20:24 |
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| dneary | Reminds me of a joke | 20:24 |
| lardman | dneary: well debian is bad, but if guis can be avoided that is good ;) | 20:24 |
| dneary | How do you confuse a Kerryman? | 20:24 |
| lardman | I don't know | 20:24 |
| dneary | Show him three shovels, and tell him to take his pick | 20:24 |
| lardman | lol | 20:24 |
| lardman | dneary: how're things? | 20:24 |
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| dneary | Well, obviously, sense of humour is OK :) | 20:25 |
| dneary | Busy enough | 20:25 |
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| dneary | Getting ready for Barcelona | 20:25 |
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| lardman | I'd love to come but have work stuff on | 20:25 |
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| dneary | You should submit mbarcode for suggestions | 20:25 |
| lardman | yeah | 20:25 |
| dneary | we'll send you a report :) | 20:25 |
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| lardman | should try to get it into extras-devel first though :p | 20:26 |
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| lardman | lol | 20:26 |
| lardman | ok | 20:26 |
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| ccooke | Anyone used a BT keyboard with an n900 yet? | 20:28 |
| ccooke | (and had it work) | 20:28 |
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| viq | ccooke: there was some report of someone doing that, yes | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.radiosforoldcars.com/vibratorsadvantages.htm | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 20:31 |
| ccooke | viq: all I've been able to find is someone who got it to work... for letters. No numbers, no task switching... | 20:31 |
| javispedro | thank god it was not something NSFW. | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: vompletely worksafe | 20:32 |
| pupnik_ | javispedro: diagonals ;) | 20:33 |
| javispedro | work work work | 20:33 |
| pupnik_ | also maybe i make a screenshot of one kbd layout | 20:33 |
| pupnik_ | showing how it could be used | 20:34 |
| pupnik_ | javispedro: do right handed people prefer dpad on left or right? | 20:34 |
| viq | ccooke: well, you didn't specify value of $work ;) | 20:34 |
| pupnik_ | right, right? | 20:34 |
| javispedro | i don't have a specific preference. actually, I'm more used to it being on the left. | 20:35 |
| pupnik_ | my left thumb has a callous that wilÃl take years to fade | 20:35 |
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| pupnik_ | anyway, controls with arrows is nice for some things, impossible for ithers | 20:37 |
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| aSIMULAter | hrm...i got my n900 for my personal use but it has a finnish kb layout | 20:40 |
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| aSIMULAter | anyone know if the german physical keyboard is the same as the dutch english | 20:40 |
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| aSIMULAter | i just can't live without the up and left arrow keys... | 20:40 |
| aSIMULAter | and i could do without the åöä | 20:40 |
| Shapeshifter | aSIMULAter: you can just use a different layout | 20:41 |
| aSIMULAter | well i know this but i don't like it | 20:41 |
| Shapeshifter | I'll have the same problem. | 20:41 |
| Shapeshifter | afaik only the keyboards where the language doesn't feature any special characters will have the 4-way arrows | 20:42 |
| Shapeshifter | french, italian, german, all these have only two arrows | 20:42 |
| aSIMULAter | damn | 20:42 |
| aSIMULAter | so german too | 20:42 |
| aSIMULAter | waa | 20:42 |
| Shapeshifter | there might be aftermarket keyboards... | 20:42 |
| qwerty12_N810 | aSIMULAter: Learn Finnish and then you will stop thinking those keys are useless | 20:43 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAter: only english-dutch have 4 arrows | 20:44 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAter: i know a bunch of people who want finnish keylayouts | 20:44 |
| timeless_mbp | find one and trade w/ them :) | 20:44 |
| aSIMULAter | haluatko että puhuu suomea kaikkille? | 20:44 |
| *** VDVsx_ is now known as VDVsx | 20:44 | |
| aSIMULAter | i can always get öåä via the on screen special character dialog | 20:45 |
| Shapeshifter | why dutch? | 20:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hehe | 20:45 |
| Shapeshifter | dutch doesn't feature any special characters? | 20:45 |
| javispedro | iirc polish has 4 arrows too. | 20:45 |
| pupnik_ | omg javispedro orig snes dpad is on left -- ookay | 20:45 |
| Shapeshifter | mh, odd, as polish also has special characters | 20:45 |
| Shapeshifter | Å‚ for example | 20:46 |
| aSIMULAter | timeless: who wants to trade? and WHY :P | 20:46 |
| Shapeshifter | or was that the only one.. | 20:46 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAter: well, i think most of them don't have devices at all :) | 20:46 |
| aSIMULAter | oh those ppl :P | 20:46 |
| Shapeshifter | you can still swap pre-orders :P | 20:46 |
| aSIMULAter | i'm just bummed, this is my very own n900 u know | 20:46 |
| aSIMULAter | my speechial one | 20:46 |
| aSIMULAter | i like the kb layout of all my other devices | 20:47 |
| timeless_mbp | mine has been on loan for a while now | 20:47 |
| * qwerty12_N810 throws aSIMULAter a screwdriver | 20:47 | |
| aSIMULAter | can that be done? swap kbs? | 20:48 |
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| aSIMULAter | ok well, my husband will take my finnish kb layout and he'll buy a device from teh UK | 20:48 |
| aSIMULAter | so yay | 20:48 |
| lardman | how is that maemo-version package supposed to work? | 20:48 |
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| hardaker2 | anyone have an opinion on the best vnc server for windows? | 20:49 |
| lardman | some-fremantle-only-package | maemo-version<=4.0 | 20:49 |
| Shapeshifter | hardaker2: tightvnc or ultravnc | 20:50 |
| hardaker2 | SS: thanks. | 20:50 |
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| hardaker2 | tightvnc had the first google hit ;-) | 20:50 |
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| hardaker2 | but I prefer real opinions | 20:50 |
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| * RST38h moos thoughtfully | 20:52 | |
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| RST38h | Hello, aSIMULAter | 20:52 |
| aSIMULAter | hi RST38h! :D | 20:52 |
| javispedro | wb rst | 20:54 |
| RST38h | heya javis | 20:54 |
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| aSIMULAter | RST38h are u going to ux meets code in barcelona? | 20:55 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAter: yes | 20:55 |
| RST38h | aSIMULAter: not really: I am out of vacation days this year + not exactly flush with money | 20:56 |
| aSIMULAter | timeless u're going? | 20:57 |
| aSIMULAter | RST38h: :/ | 20:57 |
| Shapeshifter | lol.... youtube comments are the best | 20:57 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, saw your emus in Nokia's video ? | 20:57 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: No, have they got there already? | 20:58 |
| RST38h | Hm | 20:58 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, 1 sec | 20:58 |
| Shapeshifter | really, some people must be really frustrated with their lives for them to write so much hateful stuff | 20:58 |
| aSIMULAter | what like 4chan trolls? :P | 20:58 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: Two words: NO SEX. | 20:58 |
| Shapeshifter | well, 4chan really is like a zoo of trolls | 20:58 |
| RST38h | BTW, I promised to test Mad Bomber, right? Installing | 20:59 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, http://ow.ly/162Bl7 | 21:00 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Extras-devel being a shitpile for anyone else? | 21:01 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Hm, that looks like MG and iNES | 21:01 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Worksforme | 21:01 |
| javispedro | there's a clear shot from speccy too | 21:02 |
| RST38h | yea | 21:02 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, but they have 'all' in the desktop | 21:02 |
| RST38h | But it is clear that the guy does not know how to use it | 21:02 |
| javispedro | :) | 21:02 |
| * RST38h has to do docs page similar to EmuSymbian/ | 21:02 | |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: Mad Bomber works fine, although level numbers look somehow weird | 21:04 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Oh, sorry, I was too vague there: Is updating it working for you? | 21:04 |
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| _|Nix|_ | Hey! What's up with this: "Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_Release" | 21:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | _|Nix|_ answered my question :) | 21:05 |
| RST38h | ah, that one | 21:05 |
| timeless_mbp | _|Nix|_: extras-devel has been dying a lot lately | 21:05 |
| _|Nix|_ | qwerty12_N810: Can you answer mine? | 21:05 |
| _|Nix|_ | It breaks HAM ... | 21:05 |
| timeless_mbp | my understanding is that they're waiting for new hardware to save them | 21:05 |
| _|Nix|_ | I can't see my installed packages ... | 21:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | you can't see installed pacakges? | 21:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | _|Nix|_: Extras-devel has a race condition when importing new packages which causes it to mess up. The result? Well, you've already seen it | 21:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | s/pacak/packa/ | 21:06 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: you can't see installed packages? | 21:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | So it sometimes works, and sometimes does not :) | 21:06 |
| _|Nix|_ | qwerty12_N810: Gah ... | 21:06 |
| timeless_mbp | and it fails often enough :) | 21:06 |
| _|Nix|_ | Alright ... I guess I have my answer :/ | 21:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | New servers are really needed. Much of maemo.org is already going to shit | 21:07 |
| Shapeshifter | once the n900 is out, I'm betting the "press" like engadget or so, will bash on maemo.org for being too slow | 21:08 |
| javispedro | oh, come on. give the 770 a bit of resting | 21:08 |
| timeless_mbp | Shapeshifter: i thought the n900 was out | 21:08 |
| RST38h | Shapeshifter: small fish, compared to lack of capacitive touch screen, MMS, etc | 21:08 |
| javispedro | no portrait... | 21:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | meh, but it's something for people to nag about | 21:09 |
| Shapeshifter | for _everyone_ to nag about. | 21:09 |
| RST38h | Correct | 21:09 |
| Shapeshifter | unlike MMS, which is wanted by a fraction of users. | 21:09 |
| Xisdibik | I am so happy MMS is NOT included | 21:10 |
| Xisdibik | now my sister cant spam my phone with MMS texts | 21:10 |
| RST38h | If you want to maximize the activity in your blog, you should claim stuff that looks intelligent AND corresponds to what 99% of your readers think | 21:10 |
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| *** lbt_ is now known as lbt | 21:10 | |
| RST38h | Then you get resonance with your readers and more hits =) | 21:10 |
| RST38h | So, MMS and no-capacitive, and other stuff is perfect for that | 21:11 |
| VDVsx | Xisdibik, hehe | 21:12 |
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| Xisdibik | Shapeshifter, for the people who purchased n900's its probably a small fraction, but for the number of phone users in general, id say its not such a small fraction that want MMS, especially for the US market, where most people still send picture texts instead of email. (why i dont know) | 21:13 |
| Shapeshifter | mhhh | 21:13 |
| dmj726 | I don't know many who send picture texts | 21:13 |
| dmj726 | ...not many who email either though | 21:13 |
| Xisdibik | dmj726, my sister sends enough to count for like half of the US population :/ | 21:13 |
| Xisdibik | she sends roughly 10,000 MMS's a month | 21:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Xisdibik: I bet most just want it to say "My phone can send MMSes!" | 21:14 |
| Xisdibik | (not all to me) | 21:14 |
| dmj726 | Actually I don't even text | 21:14 |
| aSIMULAter | 10k wow | 21:14 |
| dmj726 | THat's ridiculous | 21:14 |
| Xisdibik | yea 10k, if im lucky i send like 200-300 in a month | 21:14 |
| javispedro | your telco's ceo comes to visit your sister regularly? | 21:14 |
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| javispedro | and thank her, watch her health.... | 21:15 |
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| Xisdibik | javispedro, he does not, sprint doesnt care about its customers | 21:15 |
| aSIMULAter | how many of those mms are multiple sent to the same person by her cat or dog by accident stepping on the send button | 21:15 |
| dmj726 | A web browser and a dataplan would change my habits though | 21:15 |
| Xisdibik | javispedro, and hes making the same amount on her than anyone else, she she pays for unlimited texting | 21:15 |
| Shapeshifter | Xisdibik: uhm, she sends an MMS every 4 minutes of her life? | 21:15 |
| aSIMULAter | lol | 21:15 |
| Shapeshifter | 4.32 to be precise? | 21:15 |
| Xisdibik | aSIMULAter, none, but she does send the same MMS to multiple people | 21:16 |
| Shapeshifter | ah | 21:16 |
| RST38h | how much is her bill? | 21:16 |
| dmj726 | I would actually get kinda pissed at someone who sent me multiple mms messages a day | 21:16 |
| Xisdibik | RST38h, like less than 100 a month | 21:16 |
| RST38h | do people still talk to her? | 21:16 |
| Xisdibik | RST38h, my mom does :P | 21:16 |
| RST38h | heh | 21:16 |
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| * javispedro can't believe FN is actually trying to teach people to use sbox! | 21:17 | |
| javispedro | and autotools! OMG! | 21:17 |
| RST38h | not people, commercial symbian developers | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | to which sbox is actually considered sane | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:18 |
| RST38h | well, I remember scanning the forums there | 21:18 |
| RST38h | seen lots and lots of Indian guys who programmed j2me all their (short?) lives until the client asked them to do something for S60 | 21:19 |
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| RST38h | so they go to FN and they are just...mm...lost. | 21:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Seen -developers lately? | 21:19 |
| RST38h | qwerty: What? Same crap? | 21:19 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Our friend sarower found -developers? | 21:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Not sarower, but just look at some of the questions being asked... | 21:20 |
| javispedro | -developers' was invaded already? | 21:20 |
| javispedro | :( | 21:20 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Actually I have seen the same in Android forums when it was just released | 21:20 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Quiet Indians/Chinese politely asking how they are supposed to code a video decoder | 21:21 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: At some point, Google started moderating all such messages away because they all wanted native code option | 21:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Heh, figures.. | 21:22 |
| javispedro | oh, the thing's not even released and the glib version it uses is already outdated :) | 21:22 |
| RST38h | that tells more about glib... | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | maemo glib has always been outdated | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | they're catching up nicely though | 21:22 |
| Shapeshifter | is there some way of running fennec or the "maemo browser" or whatever you call it in scratchbox? | 21:22 |
| javispedro | yes. even though why would you want it? | 21:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Shapeshifter: The browser shipped with the N900 can be installed with "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-apps maemo-binaries" (after adding the nokia-binaries repo, of course) | 21:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Unless you really do mean Fennec | 21:24 |
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| Shapeshifter | javispedro: I'm thinking of trying out twaeltis google maps adaptation and see what I could hack along. Could do it without scratchbox and everything, but it would be nice to try it in the maemo browser. | 21:24 |
| Shapeshifter | qwerty12_N810: thanks. | 21:24 |
| qwerty12_N810 | My shitty experiences with Fennec on the N800 and N810 have scarred me for life so I daren't try it on the N900 | 21:24 |
| * Stskeeps watches yet another cross-compiler compilation go past | 21:24 | |
| Shapeshifter | qwerty12_N810: but isn't the maemo browser very similar to fennec? | 21:25 |
| * lcuk aims at the compilation whizzing past and pulls the trigger | 21:25 | |
| lardman | hmm, my n810 is not wanting to boot | 21:25 |
| Shapeshifter | E: Couldn't find package maemo-apps | 21:25 |
| * javispedro watches the compilation die and stskeeps lose hair | 21:25 | |
| GeneralAntilles | nokia-apps | 21:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | and nokia-binaries | 21:25 |
| * lardman heads for a power supply again | 21:26 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Shapeshifter: I would say "no", but I'm not in any position to compare | 21:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Er, yeah | 21:26 |
| Shapeshifter | ah | 21:26 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: you didn't flash zimage did you? :P | 21:27 |
| javispedro | that would be very evil and immoral | 21:27 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: nah, just looks like the battery is too flat, not got round to looking at that yet | 21:27 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, you've your documents this time ? :P | 21:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, hell yeah! | 21:28 |
| VDVsx | :) | 21:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I still needs to talk zerojay into coming, but if not I'll probably want to room with you. | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa's passed many of the cabal's secrets on to you, but I've still got a few I never passed to him. *eg* | 21:30 |
| dneary | RevdKathy's coming too | 21:31 |
| VDVsx | hehhe | 21:31 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh, I didn't even know it was possible to install the nokia apps in scratchbox | 21:31 |
| Shapeshifter | neat. Got a look at the calendar, already liking it. | 21:31 |
| VDVsx | dneary, btw, did you approach ossinpena (or something like that) | 21:31 |
| lardman | yay! using a proper charger it's booted, ~lart crappy phone chargers | 21:31 |
| dneary | VDVsx, Yeah, ossipena and smarsh | 21:31 |
| * lardman goes back to cooking | 21:31 | |
| dneary | Both unabailable | 21:31 |
| VDVsx | dneary, :) | 21:32 |
| dneary | Gone! Wish Ireland good luck | 21:32 |
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| javispedro | I call the N810 resell syndrome. So you buy the N900 thinking to someday sell the N810, and it suddenly just fails. | 21:32 |
| VDVsx | dneary, good luck | 21:32 |
| VDVsx | dneary, now wish the same for me :P | 21:32 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: Bad luck | 21:32 |
| javispedro | Average luck ;) | 21:33 |
| lpotter | javispedro: its jealousy | 21:33 |
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| VDVsx | our coach is a asshole, but I think we'll pass :P | 21:33 |
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| javispedro | google's going to use connman in google chrome os | 21:35 |
| javispedro | (and clutter...) | 21:35 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, because of the name, I bet :P | 21:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Google Chrome OS sounds like a joke, even | 21:35 |
| javispedro | it'll be their pet linux distro, using a bit more of the usual gnu userspace. | 21:36 |
| petteri | hopefully they provide nice arm port of the chrome browser so we get it also runnin on the n900 :) | 21:36 |
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| dmj726 | I'm not really excited about chrome | 21:38 |
| Xisdibik | petteri, only if they trade us by making a nice desktop version of Modest, available for Windows aswell as Linux, and ill throw in OSX as a requirement to appease the apple fanatics ;D | 21:38 |
| luke-jr | petteri: pfft, Chrome is nothing special | 21:38 |
| dmj726 | ...Chrome OS seems kinda pointless when you have Ubuntu | 21:39 |
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| luke-jr | lol | 21:39 |
| dmj726 | The Chrome browser is nice even though I don't use it. | 21:39 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Jesus, I hate using Modest on the N900; I'll be fucked if I ever use it on a desktop | 21:39 |
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| dmj726 | It makes the Firefox devs try harder | 21:39 |
| luke-jr | Chrome is fail | 21:39 |
| luke-jr | Firefox is fail too :) | 21:39 |
| dmj726 | and you use what now? | 21:40 |
| luke-jr | Konqueror | 21:40 |
| dmj726 | ah...is there a maemo port of that? | 21:40 |
| luke-jr | doubt it. | 21:40 |
| luke-jr | part of KDE | 21:40 |
| Xisdibik | luke-jr, are you using a KDE distro of linux then? | 21:41 |
| luke-jr | Xisdibik: I'm using my own OS built on the Gentoo meta-distro | 21:41 |
| Xisdibik | luke-jr, running KDE? :P | 21:42 |
| luke-jr | yes | 21:42 |
| luke-jr | 4.3 | 21:42 |
| luke-jr | though on my N810, I use Arora instead of Konqueror | 21:42 |
| Xisdibik | does your N810 have KDE installed on it? | 21:42 |
| mavhc | chrome is designed to be the OS, can kill and restart tabs instead of apps, see tab ram/cpu usage instead of apps, etc | 21:42 |
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| luke-jr | yes, my N810 runs Gentoo with KDE 4.3 | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAter: i've got a coworker with an official english layout | 21:42 |
| timeless_mbp | who will gladly swap with you for your finnish layout | 21:43 |
| lbt | ooh... "Ordnance Survey maps to go free online" http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/nov/17/ordnance-survey-maps-online | 21:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | lbt: that may not - quite - mean what you might at first think. | 21:43 |
| Xisdibik | luke-jr, wow you have it running on your N810, impressive, what do you use for your standard desktop or laptop or netbook (depending on what u got) | 21:43 |
| lbt | just reading... :) | 21:43 |
| mavhc | lbt: +"some" | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: There are all sorts of possible get-outs. For example 'free' raster maps, that you can't cache, or derive data from. | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: Are you in the UK? | 21:44 |
| luke-jr | Xisdibik: same. | 21:44 |
| lbt | yes | 21:44 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: Consulatation come december - remember to participate. | 21:44 |
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| lbt | "down to a scale of 1:10,000" | 21:44 |
| * lbt wonders what the scale of the curve of a circle is... | 21:45 | |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: OS _really_ doesn't want to do this - the government is pressing them - it goes 180 degrees against their previous position. | 21:45 |
| luke-jr | 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971399375 | 21:45 |
| lbt | maybe enforced jaggies in the render ;) | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: 1cm=100m | 21:45 |
| mavhc | it's either free or it's too annoying to bother with | 21:46 |
| SpeedEvil | mavhc: Ideally, it's free enough to import en-mass into openstreetmap. | 21:46 |
| SpeedEvil | And then tidy it up and add stuff. | 21:46 |
| lbt | SpeedEvil: <grin> 'twas a philosophical question.... the scale of vector data is meaningless | 21:46 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: ah | 21:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I came up with about 6 ways they could do it that would make that impossible, while sticking to the letter of the announcement. | 21:47 |
| lbt | I've followed it lightly for years... | 21:47 |
| mavhc | don't let them know | 21:47 |
| lbt | I fully expect it to fail dismally | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: also - 1:10000 may or may not be an invention of that report | 21:48 |
| lbt | so long as OSM find a way to rip it | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: well - lacking that - we're currently scanning 1958 maps | 21:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Which actually are quite good. | 21:48 |
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| lbt | SpeedEvil: well, mobile GPS crowd are beginning to get it... rally us in December | 21:49 |
| luke-jr | lbt: the scale is meaningless, but the accuracy is not | 21:49 |
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| lbt | luke-jr: *nod* only sensible interpretation ... "the artefacts normally represented on a 1:10,000 scale render" | 21:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | The more subtle effects of this are that it frees up _lots_ of other data. | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - I recently requested from my local council map data on their public toilets. | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | They responded that this information is partially derived from OS data - so that I can't use it without an OS license. | 21:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Same with data on rights of ways, and house plans. | 21:53 |
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| mavhc | what do other countries do? do they have government map makers? | 21:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | It depends | 21:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | The US for example - pretty much gives the raw data out free. | 21:56 |
| luke-jr | they do? | 21:56 |
| SpeedEvil | They vary from this extreme - to the UKs extreme, which is that everyone needs to pay for maps, even governmental bodies. | 21:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | Actually - china would be the extreme - non-governmental map making is illegal. | 21:57 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: yes. | 21:57 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: http://tiger.census.gov/ | 21:57 |
| pwnguin | well, tiger is kinda junk | 21:58 |
| pwnguin | its a good start | 21:58 |
| pwnguin | but dont go trying to navigate turn by turn with it | 21:58 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: I fixed up much of the southern part of Colorado Springs. | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: (for OSM) | 21:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | Some of the errors are _wierd_ | 21:59 |
| pwnguin | did we talk in #osm? | 22:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Possibly. | 22:00 |
| * cosmo hates autobuilder | 22:00 | |
| pwnguin | i vaguely recall showing someone from col springs a tiger modifications layout | 22:00 |
| cosmo | i think i'll just make my own repository.. | 22:00 |
| pwnguin | anyways, i wonder if its possible to automate the annotation of OSM with gps traces | 22:01 |
| SpeedEvil | TIGER data has wackiness like being topologically correct in terms of roads - roads don't cross - but so inaccurately surveyed that transforming from the TIGER map to match ariel imagery is more akin to doing a jigsaw, than actual simple rectification. | 22:01 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: It's a hard problem. | 22:01 |
| pwnguin | my dad did some census work a few months ago | 22:01 |
| pwnguin | SpeedEvil: i suspect its hard but solvable, and that google did it via ridefinder | 22:02 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: Perhaps. | 22:02 |
| pwnguin | you know | 22:03 |
| RST38h | Samsung is sponsoring Enlightenment | 22:03 |
| pwnguin | the n900 has wifi and gps built in | 22:03 |
| pwnguin | wardriving app | 22:03 |
| pwnguin | ? | 22:03 |
| * RST38h wonders why | 22:03 | |
| luke-jr | does it actually work? :p | 22:03 |
| javispedro | Enlightenment! | 22:04 |
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| luke-jr | pwnguin: I use my N810 primarily for wardriving on the rare occasion the GPS works | 22:04 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: And camera. It makes an interesting OSM platform - it'd only be more idreal if it had a compass in it. | 22:04 |
| pwnguin | RST38h: i think samsung's making a mobile linux platform of their own | 22:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: Well - a compass, and a laser rangefinder. | 22:04 |
| pwnguin | and a gigantic ball | 22:04 |
| pwnguin | mirrored | 22:04 |
| pwnguin | what's the range finder for? | 22:05 |
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| RST38h | pwguin: I am just not sure Enlightenment is what they are going to use there | 22:05 |
| RST38h | Sounds more like something for their netbooks | 22:05 |
| pwnguin | RST38h: perhaps they figure its a market differentiator | 22:05 |
| pwnguin | nobody else touches e | 22:05 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: Point the laser at something, get the exact range, the compass tells you where it is WRT the GPS. | 22:05 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: raster works there | 22:05 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: Means you can stand in one spot, and map the surrounding kilometer or so. | 22:05 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: Without walking to each feature, or using ariel imagery. | 22:06 |
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| pwnguin | SpeedEvil: you have a flash | 22:08 |
| pwnguin | you could fake it | 22:08 |
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| pwnguin | anyways, i need to reorder via dell | 22:10 |
| pwnguin | if they take my coupon | 22:10 |
| Venomrush | hi | 22:10 |
| Venomrush | dell still doing the n900? | 22:10 |
| Venomrush | thought it got taken down | 22:10 |
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| RST38h | Sts: raster works for samsung?!? | 22:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: Not easily, unless the flash can be PWMd a lot faster than I suspect. | 22:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: Plus, you'd need to integrate over a lot of frames, and I suspect the clocks are not good enough to be jitter-free over the required periods. | 22:12 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: afaik | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: feel free to ask him, hangs out in #mer at times :P | 22:14 |
| RST38h | Sts: Weird =) | 22:14 |
| * RST38h wonders what would Raster do for Samsung | 22:14 | |
| Stskeeps | limo related stuff i think | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | and not driving limos | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:14 |
| fernando_ | rasterizing vectors for the samsung marketing dept. | 22:15 |
| RST38h | heh | 22:15 |
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| penguinbait | !@#$%#@ | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | your n900 blew up in your face, penguinbait? | 22:17 |
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| fernando_ | join #mer | 22:17 |
| fernando_ | whoops | 22:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It's a trap | 22:17 |
| fernando_ | / is the worst part to mistype in an irc command | 22:19 |
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| Venomrush | yup | 22:19 |
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| pupnik_ | Flandry new user testing uqm - tons of feedback | 22:22 |
| pupnik_ | great stuff | 22:23 |
| pupnik_ | /join #uqmfeed | 22:23 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders if anybody has picked an N900 up from a flagship store. | 22:25 | |
| w00t_ | they un-released them in the uk at least, GeneralAntilles :) | 22:25 |
| timeless | woot: eh? | 22:26 |
| timeless | anyone near chicago, il? | 22:26 |
| fernando_ | me | 22:26 |
| w00t_ | timeless: assuming that was me (zero zero, not oh oh), they announced they were going to be selling them today on twitter/facebook, then changed their minds today, and removed both announcements | 22:26 |
| fernando_ | plan to check the flagship store this weekend or so | 22:26 |
| fernando_ | (not that I can buy it right now, but yeah) | 22:27 |
| timeless | fernando: cool | 22:27 |
| Shapeshifter | did you lot notice the konami code on facebook? I just realised that they could pull off some quite clever statistical research with this kind of thing. They would be dumb if they didn't! You could easily track who enters the code where, and see how such information distributes over facebook, and how fast! It's ingenious. | 22:27 |
| Shapeshifter | I'd love to look at the data. | 22:27 |
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| fernando_ | lol | 22:27 |
| timeless | woot, :( | 22:27 |
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| timeless | i can see the difference fwiw, but typing from an n900 doesn't mean that i want to express it | 22:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | We really need to bind a tab. | 22:28 |
| Jaffa | re | 22:29 |
| derf | ^I | 22:29 |
| timeless | down with hardware keyboards! | 22:29 |
| derf | Works great in irssi. | 22:29 |
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| timeless | does the ukeyboard team irc? | 22:29 |
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| wirelessdreamer | timeless: i'm in chicago, but i'm waiting to get one from amazon for $510 instead of $650 | 22:32 |
| w00t_ | timeless: ah, you're forgiven then ;) | 22:33 |
| courmisch | heck, $650 is already dirt cheap compared to 650€ here | 22:33 |
| wirelessdreamer | $510 is still really expensive to the wife | 22:33 |
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| Venomrush | here in the UK, people are getting it for 30% off retail price | 22:34 |
| Venomrush | retail price here is £500 | 22:34 |
| timeless | wireless: ahp, she'll just have to take it out of your hide | 22:34 |
| * microlith wonders if amazon orders will be filled before nokiaUSA preorders | 22:34 | |
| toggles_w | wirelessdreamer: sell your wii, makes it $300 ;-) | 22:35 |
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| timeless | speaking of uk | 22:36 |
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| timeless | i'm planning to be stranded there on 12/31 | 22:36 |
| Anpr | hello guys | 22:36 |
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| timeless | anyone have suggestions? | 22:36 |
| lcuk | yeah, dont be | 22:36 |
| toggles_w | timeless: burough markets for lunch | 22:36 |
| lcuk | toggles_w, o_O | 22:37 |
| Anpr | i wanted to ask about this new update for n900 which was released reasently | 22:37 |
| timeless | lcuk: aww g, thanks | 22:37 |
| toggles_w | lcuk: http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/ | 22:37 |
| Anpr | do you know what exactly did they update ? | 22:37 |
| lcuk | lol which part of uk you in | 22:37 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless: Don't speak in that foreign language that you call English | 22:37 |
| Milo- | But I like Engrish | 22:37 |
| timeless | lcuk: 8md expect to use a train to move to whichever place people recommend | 22:37 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Milo: It's worse: He speaks American "English" | 22:38 |
| timeless | hrm, Fn-fail | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Venomrush: ~50% | 22:38 |
| Milo- | ah, I see where the problem might have occured. | 22:38 |
| lcuk | ahhh | 22:38 |
| Anpr | guys ? | 22:38 |
| timeless | anpr: so | 22:38 |
| lcuk | problem with new year is it depends on your own taste | 22:38 |
| lcuk | and whether the weather works | 22:38 |
| timeless | you're comparing the summit prerelease with sales, right? | 22:39 |
| Robot101 | timeless: new year is big in Edinburgh, fireworks, street parties, pubs open very late, etc. | 22:39 |
| timeless | kinda pointless | 22:39 |
| Robot101 | also scotland is cool | 22:39 |
| Robot101 | weather not great :) | 22:39 |
| Anpr | timeless i just wondered that did they update | 22:39 |
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| timeless | anpr: i'd expect virtually everything | 22:39 |
| Jaffa | Venomrush: aha, you're here :) | 22:39 |
| timeless | perhaps not the kernel | 22:39 |
| Anpr | hmm | 22:39 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Oh, Generalantilles, I've got an FBReader that works with the volume keys, if you want it. I needed a CHM viewer. | 22:39 |
| Anpr | so it could mean that they could be almost ready to stock n900 ? | 22:40 |
| timeless | although that's supposed to be in one of these releases | 22:40 |
| suihkulokki | hrmh, the telepathy-extras* and account-extras* packages need more userfriendly names | 22:40 |
| timeless | anpr: the image we offered is the official sales imagbe | 22:40 |
| timeless | s/gbe/ge/ | 22:40 |
| infobot | timeless meant: anpr: the image we offered is the official sales image | 22:40 |
| Robot101 | timeless: central london at new year is just too much for me, I found. everywhere is totally totally rammed full, streets and streets of people, mounted police, strange one-way crowd control, can't get anywhere to see fireworks along the river unless you go there from like 12pm onwards | 22:40 |
| Robot101 | suihkulokki: suggestions gratefully accepted :) | 22:40 |
| Anpr | which image do mean ? | 22:40 |
| Anpr | do you mean* ? | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, !!! | 22:41 |
| timeless | 42-11 i think | 22:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, that'd make my week. | 22:41 |
| Robot101 | Anpr: the new upgrade, is the one which is being shopped... they started going out on sale last tuesday | 22:41 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N900: cool. Can you unfullscreen it? Using Conny's toggle button would be cool | 22:41 |
| Robot101 | s/shop/ship/ | 22:41 |
| infobot | Robot101 meant: Anpr: the new upgrade, is the one which is being shipped... they started going out on sale last tuesday | 22:41 |
| timeless | actually, that probably has cgroups, which means even the kernel changes | 22:41 |
| Anpr | Robot101 which country do you have in mind ? | 22:41 |
| Anpr | i am just confused.. | 22:42 |
| timeless | robot: poke me w/ the deb names when i get home | 22:42 |
| Anpr | i've so many different topics and reports in internet.. | 22:42 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Jaffa: I have no intentions on "Fremantleizing" it (not for me to do), but I do require, at least, working volume keys within the app :) | 22:42 |
| Robot101 | timeless: cgroups policy leaves a little to be desired... :( | 22:42 |
| timeless | anpr: we(Nokia) officially started selling last week or whatever | 22:42 |
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| timeless | robot: cgroups is better than no cgroups | 22:42 |
| timeless | my image is presummit and i can miss calls | 22:43 |
| timeless | .query anpr | 22:43 |
| Robot101 | timeless: yes, but it was half-baked to push into the sales image IMO | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I bound F to fullscreen and R to rotate. | 22:43 |
| timeless | it was required | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Robot101, Telepathy Haze. The the short description should tell you what services it provides. | 22:43 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: ah, cool | 22:43 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N900: well, the author's not showing much intention AFAICT | 22:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can somebody @Nokia go hit Misha? | 22:44 |
| Robot101 | timeless: yes, but it could've been done differently/better | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Jaffa: Quim should go smack him. He's a Nokia employee, and FBReader is on the Stars program | 22:44 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Any thoughts on "Maemo Weekly News" (aka "someone else read tmo so I don't have to") | 22:45 |
| Jaffa | Oh, he's a Nokian? | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, love it, that's approximately where I tried to go with the Highlights. | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's too much work for one person. | 22:45 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: agreed | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | MishaS, yeah. | 22:45 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I disagree with VDVsx that anyone should be able to contribute directly, although suggesting stuff makes sense | 22:46 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Generalantilles: http://qwerty12.qole.org/fbreader_0.10.7-1_armel.deb | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, this of course means I may not have to kill myself. | 22:47 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Glad to hear it =) | 22:47 |
| PaulFertser | Hey folks :) I've a question wrt deblet. After compiling 2.6.30 with proper framebuffer console support and hardcoded (i assume there's no way to patch the bootloader's cmdline so i had to patch the kernel to ignore that ATAG) compiled-in cmdline i'm still unable to get Debian working :( The X doesn't start, hell with it, it can be fixed but the device turns itself off after ~65 seconds. I assume that's RETU watchdog but how should it be properly handle | 22:48 |
| PaulFertser | ... I tried apt-get install watchdog and ensured i have RETU_WD compiled in but the result is the same. Any suggestions? :) | 22:48 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, I don't meant to say directly, my idea was also suggest stuff, but in a very easy way | 22:48 |
| lbt | PaulFertser: deblet... is that still alive? | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: deblet died over a year ago | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:49 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: i am interested in how much is working with 2.6.30 though | 22:49 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: i want to run debian natively. | 22:49 |
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| lbt | PaulFertser: do you care about strictly Debian | 22:49 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: and i can't tell you the answer since the device just powers itself off :( | 22:49 |
| lbt | or is pretty much raw ubuntu OK ? | 22:49 |
| PaulFertser | lbt: not really, i care to not run maemo. | 22:49 |
| lbt | you need Mer :) | 22:49 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: use a flasher and enable rd mode, disable watchdogs | 22:49 |
| suihkulokki | PaulFertser: there are multiple watchdogs on the n8x0 | 22:49 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: ah cool. If collection is mostly done by multiple peeps posting on a single Twitter account, suggestions could be an @... to it | 22:49 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, are you sure ? is that the guy helping Quim ? | 22:49 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: disabled wd's except for retu. | 22:50 |
| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: indeed. | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, am I sure about what? | 22:50 |
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| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: but i got no schematics and no description :( | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: well disable retu rd too :P | 22:50 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, mishas | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | er, wd | 22:50 |
| suihkulokki | PaulFertser: have you tried asking linux-omap mailing list? | 22:50 |
| * Jaffa 'll take the idea to blog, -community and tmo tomorrow | 22:50 | |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: tried that, turns off even faster. | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, there's always the chance he may have moved on, but he was with Nokia last time I checked. | 22:50 |
| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: nope, but i tried googling extensively :) | 22:51 |
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| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, if I recall correctly he's from the same company as andre__ | 22:51 |
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| PaulFertser | BTW, i'm really disappointed with Nokia, too many obstacles for everything... :( | 22:51 |
| suihkulokki | PaulFertser: try asking, there are people on there omap kernel list who at least have run the n800 with mainlinish kernels | 22:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | For "everything"? | 22:52 |
| PaulFertser | Any news about N900 host-mode? Is it really never ever anyhow working? Or just an external power needed or what? | 22:52 |
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| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: are you booting straight to SD? | 22:52 |
| Stskeeps | or through initfs | 22:52 |
| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: i'm not running mainline, i'm running omap kernel from their repo, just like described in the popular blog post. | 22:53 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: straight to SD. debugging initfs scripts is too much trouble without proper console :( | 22:53 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, I'm right: https://launchpad.net/~michael-hasselmann | 22:53 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, so maybe andre__ can help you on that :P | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | so, people who were privmsg'ing me | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | please switch to here. | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | a few notes... | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Nokia is a business. Microsoft is a business. | 22:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, er, wrong person. | 22:54 |
| qwerty12_N900 | VDVsx: mikhas != MishaS | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Nokia gave out device loans to roughly 300 people who it invited to Maemo Summit | 22:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/profile/view/mishas/ | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Microsoft gave out free lightweight laptop to i don't know how many people | 22:54 |
| timeless_mbp | who came to the PDC this week (?) | 22:55 |
| timeless_mbp | now those people paid to attend, but i'm sure the laptop is worth it | 22:55 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ah, sorry, I asked you if is the guy helping Quim :P | 22:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, I missed the context. | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: happen to know how to do something at usb hotplug in osol? need to cat a file to /dev/printers/0 at it showing up | 22:55 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: probably you know any definitive info about N900 usb host mode? Can you please share? | 22:55 |
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| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, ah that's the FBreader dev righ ? | 22:55 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: sorry, nope | 22:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: i work on software, specifically the web browser | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway microsoft is greedy | 22:56 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: ah, ok. I thought that's just so much important that everybody who can knows about that. Sorry for bothering. | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | why would a business give away laptops? | 22:56 |
| timeless_mbp | because it was giving them away to developers who will write cool software | 22:56 |
| CShadowRun | I assume that maemo updates itself? (Maybe even with apt?) | 22:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | and that software will run on microsoft's platform and it will drive sales | 22:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | CShadowRun: maemo tells you when updates are available | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you choose to update or not | 22:57 |
| CShadowRun | Nice | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | you can micromanage to some extent | 22:57 |
| CShadowRun | Shiney, is it apt? :D | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | just as you can with windows | 22:57 |
| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: so do you know anything particular about the retu watchdog? Does it reboot or power off the device? Are there any other watchdogs that do power off? | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | it's apt w/ slightly different rules | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway... Nokia is also greedy | 22:57 |
| CShadowRun | slightly different rules? | 22:57 |
| timeless_mbp | we give away loaner devices to people who we hope will develop software for *our* platform | 22:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | and thus drive sales for *our* platform | 22:58 |
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| Anpr | guys i know it will be a silly question, but i'm just a simple user, i don't know anything about programming and etc.. i just wanted to ask how the things is going with n900 and what's your opinion of it. I just found that n900 could be a great device for communications like skype and etc | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | business do things because there's a business case for doing it. | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | Anpr: skype integration is awesome | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | but a word of warning: | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | roaming in foreign countries can be expensive | 22:58 |
| PaulFertser | Anpr: imho communications withi skype can't be great. I think nokia is doing the wrong thing offering skype support :( | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | and VoIP will *not* save you | 22:58 |
| * timeless_mbp got an incredibly high phone bill recently | 22:59 | |
| suihkulokki | PaulFertser: I think the all reboot.. if you are experiencing poweroff it might be due to overheating (if you have no power managment at all) | 22:59 |
| CShadowRun | Anpr although i don't own one, it looks like it does all that stuff out of the box, and i know WINE is porting to the ARM architecture, so before long, you may be able to run Skype 4 for Windows on the N900 if you wanted, which would be fun | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | CShadowRun: um | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | wine is wine-arm | 22:59 |
| CShadowRun | they already did it? | 22:59 |
| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: overheating of what? And can it be felt by holding the device in hands? I did and i felt nothing bad. | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i doubt skype4-arm-wince is something you can find lying around | 22:59 |
| Anpr | hmm timeless i am from United Kingdom and i think it's possible to get free mobile internet for 5quid per month | 23:00 |
| CShadowRun | timeless, nah you'd run the windows version under wine | 23:00 |
| CShadowRun | i've done it on ubuntu, it nearly works :P | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | CShadowRun: um... | 23:00 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 23:00 | |
| Anpr | so if you call from you n900 to another skype is it free ? | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | is there a faq for this? | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i think i've explained it before | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | Anpr: plus data carrier costs | 23:00 |
| suihkulokki | PaulFertser: not neccesarily felt on hand | 23:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Anpr: only if you have an existing contract - 5/mp | 23:00 |
| SpeedEvil | mo | 23:00 |
| timeless_mbp | skype is skype | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | the plans don't change because the hardware changes | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | skype to 1800/0800 is also free | 23:01 |
| PaulFertser | suihkulokki: so what part can be overheated at all and how does it manage to calm instantly (since i'm able to boot it again without a delay)? | 23:01 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 23:01 | |
| CShadowRun | haha lots of pondering | 23:02 |
| timeless_mbp | CShadowRun: are you familiar w/ russian or turkish? | 23:02 |
| CShadowRun | no | 23:02 |
| * PaulFertser ponders whenever he hears about the fucking proprietary spying shitty skype and official support for that :( | 23:02 | |
| CShadowRun | just english :( | 23:02 |
| timeless_mbp | ebcdic? | 23:02 |
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| * CShadowRun hates skype too | 23:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | oh, ok, how about miles and yards? | 23:02 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless_mbp: Would being able to say "bitch" in Russian count? | 23:02 |
| CShadowRun | I try and keep to SIP when possible :D | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N900: not even close | 23:03 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: i know russian fyi | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: this is for an explanation, if the target doesn't understand the space, i can't use it | 23:03 |
| CShadowRun | timeless_mbp you never said why you can't run skype 4 under wine on the N900 :P | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | CShadowRun: do you know about miles and yards? | 23:03 |
| CShadowRun | yup | 23:03 |
| suihkulokki | PaulFertser: no idea, I just remember someone complaining of such issues | 23:03 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so... you probably have some yard sticks lying around | 23:04 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: do you need any translation or what? ;) | 23:04 |
| SpeedEvil | CShadowRun: wine+qemu | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: no. listen. | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | in the country where i currently live, we have these strange sticks that can measure to roughly a foot | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | but sadly there are no markings for inches | 23:04 |
| suihkulokki | random uneducated guess: perhaps it just thinks it's overheating | 23:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | CShadowRun: your stick *probably* can measure inches and centimeters/millimeters | 23:04 |
| timeless_mbp | but you could probably also get a stick which can only measure inches/feet/yards | 23:05 |
| CShadowRun | timeless_mbp yea in uk we usually use cm/mm | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | oh brother. | 23:05 |
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| CShadowRun | why are you asking? :S | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | well, you can imagine that such a stick could exist, right? | 23:05 |
| * qwerty12_N900 's stick can measure lots of inches | 23:05 | |
| CShadowRun | of course | 23:05 |
| * qwerty12_N900 hides | 23:05 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine someone gives you instructions for building a house | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | and they give you the instructions in inches | 23:05 |
| timeless_mbp | in addition to giving you the instructions in inches | 23:06 |
| timeless_mbp | the instructions include things like "use the prefabricated tile" | 23:06 |
| *** realitygaps_ is now known as realitygaps | 23:06 | |
| timeless_mbp | wine is a way to solve the problem of the prefabricated tile | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | but it won't solve the problem that your instructions were in inches instead of cm | 23:07 |
| lardman | but it will stop you caring ;) | 23:07 |
| CShadowRun | I just went and read it on the mailing list, wine doesn't do processor emulation | 23:07 |
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| CShadowRun | So you need to get qemu involved | 23:07 |
| CShadowRun | is that what your trying to tell me? :P | 23:07 |
| timeless_mbp | yes. | 23:07 |
| CShadowRun | hehe | 23:07 |
| CShadowRun | ok so qemu+dsl+wine = skype 4 on n900 | 23:08 |
| CShadowRun | :D | 23:08 |
| * lardman sees lots of curly errors | 23:08 | |
| * RST38h sighs | 23:08 | |
| * RST38h sighs a lot lately | 23:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | CShadowRun: you planning to run out of memory? | 23:08 |
| CShadowRun | timeless_mbp the N900 has less than 16mb of memory? | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | note that if you use qemu you could use wine-w32 instead of wine-arm | 23:08 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: was that all your long explanation just to tell us x86 is not arm??? | 23:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Skype codecs are also quite heavy. | 23:08 |
| CShadowRun | hehe | 23:08 |
| timeless_mbp | and in fact, i'd almost *expect* you to use wine-w32 instead of wine-arm | 23:09 |
| CShadowRun | yea, wine-arm won't do it | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | so the existence of wine-arm doesn't help you an iota | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: just CShadowRun | 23:09 |
| timeless_mbp | for you i'd have used something else | 23:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'd have to go find the language variant which uses Latin instead of Cyrillic | 23:09 |
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| CShadowRun | timeless_mbp i was just saying it would be possible, i didn't say it would be practical :P | 23:10 |
| PaulFertser | timeless_mbp: it's obvious wine can't help run x86 binary on arm without any explanations... | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | PaulFertser: CShadowRun didn't seem to get it | 23:10 |
| CShadowRun | i do get it? | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | you do _now_ | 23:10 |
| CShadowRun | hehe | 23:10 |
| timeless_mbp | but when i kept saying <no>, you didn't seem to | 23:11 |
| PaulFertser | Come on, can anyone please tell me where can i find anybody who understands n810 on low-level enough to help me diagnose "powering off" problem? | 23:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wouldn't bother with Deblet, personally. | 23:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mer is a much better option. | 23:13 |
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| PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: does it run with new kernel? | 23:13 |
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| lardman | ah, the wonders of being able to ssh into a device over wifi | 23:15 |
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| PaulFertser | The new kernel matters just because i need to use an external cardreader to read CF (a necessity since it's the format used by a professional tacheometer) and .21 just doesn't cut it. | 23:16 |
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| PaulFertser | hellwolf-n810: hey, could you please tell me what kernel version do you use? | 23:21 |
| PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: and btw, can Mer just use Debian repositories for all non-system-specific stuff? | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | it uses ubuntu stuff yeah | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:23 |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: what makes anyone choose ubuntu over debian? I thought that ubuntu is mostly an inferior debian fork aimed to adding useless stuff and removing some useful. | 23:24 |
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| * GeneralAntilles groans | 23:24 | |
| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: in this particular case? armv5 vs armv4, and upstart support in debian when we started was horrible | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | (yes, it wasn't a matter of it looking shiny) | 23:24 |
| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: sounds somewhat reasonable, i agree. But the distro policy makes me feel sick... | 23:25 |
| * lcuk passes paul a bucket | 23:26 | |
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| lcuk | hey there ciroip \o | 23:26 |
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| ciroip | buonasera signor lcuk | 23:29 |
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| * Klowner pokes amazon with a pointy stick | 23:31 | |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: so, could you please tell me the status of mer compatibility with recent kernels? | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Klowner: Your pointy stick got delivered? | 23:32 |
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| Stskeeps | PaulFertser: frankly i'm not sure - i guess on n8x0 we've been lucky that we had DSME for the watchdogs to do the dirty work for us. luke-jr might have some ideas | 23:34 |
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| Lorthirk | ciroip: italian? | 23:34 |
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| Klowner | SpeedEvil: yep, now just waiting on the N900 | 23:34 |
| Klowner | free super saver shipping on pointy sticks though, which is nice | 23:35 |
| RST38h | N900s are being delayed by 3 months | 23:35 |
| Klowner | to what? March? | 23:35 |
| RST38h | Nokia shipped the entire first batch to Nicaragua, to replace failing OLPCs. | 23:35 |
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| Klowner | aw man | 23:35 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: :twitch: | 23:36 |
| fernando_ | lol | 23:36 |
| ciroip | Lorthirk: si | 23:36 |
| Klowner | spoiled little nicaraguin brats | 23:36 |
| Lorthirk | me too, but i think we should speak english here :) | 23:36 |
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| PaulFertser | Stskeeps: if only i knew more details about the watchdogs... | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | dsme code is published, that kicks them | 23:38 |
| PaulFertser | To really diagnose the problem i'd probably need to know about every particular watchdog and its effect on the system. :| | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are 3 | 23:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | One for when important system processes die, one for when the system goes into 100% CPU mode for too long and one for something else. | 23:40 |
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| PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: I've heard about it but it's not exactly telling anything about their timeouts, effect on the system and the way they're connected to the SoC. :( | 23:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Why not just disable them all and move on? | 23:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, it doesn't work. | 23:44 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Generalantilles: Works here | 23:44 |
| PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: i've read one blog post about the retu watchdog and it says it can't be effectively disabled, it reboot the system unconditionally after ~60 seconds if you try. | 23:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | PaulFertser, then go look at the DSME code to see how to kick it. | 23:45 |
| PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: ok, thanks for the pointer. | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | PaulFertser, Stskeeps pointed that one out a while ago. | 23:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, you're such an evil tease. | 23:47 |
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| PaulFertser | GeneralAntilles: i know, i just felt obliged to say something nice to you ;) | 23:47 |
| Anpr | who is from UK here ? =] | 23:48 |
| PaulFertser | Because it'd be strange if i blamed you for the lack of schematics and the datasheets. | 23:48 |
| kynky | me, and im still waiting | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, ping? | 23:48 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Generalantilles: Just deleted /usr/bin/FBReader and reinstalled from that same deb with the result that it works | 23:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Grr | 23:53 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm, anyone looking at fosdem from community? | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | deadline 22th | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody else test http://qwerty12.qole.org/fbreader_0.10.7-1_armel.deb to see if the volume rockers scroll. | 23:54 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Ah, bollocks | 23:55 |
| qwerty12_N900 | You need the libzlibrary, too | 23:55 |
| greenfly | GeneralAntilles: yeah, I tested it, didn't work. | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, hate you. | 23:56 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Sec | 23:56 |
| greenfly | is that the library that apparently openvpn requires now too? | 23:56 |
| greenfly | oh nevermind, that's liblzo2-2, whatever that is | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lempel-Ziv-Oberhumer | 23:57 |
| qwerty12_N900 | General: http://qwerty12.qole.org/libzlibrary_0.10.7-1_armel.deb | 23:57 |
| greenfly | ahh, thanks | 23:57 |
| * Xisdibik is jealous of qwerty12_N900 | 23:57 | |
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| greenfly | what I don't understand, is why that package disappeared. openvpn installed about a week back just fine | 23:58 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Xisdibik: Don't be: This is only a loaner | 23:58 |
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| Xisdibik | qwerty12_N900, i know, but i's still wants one nowww :( | 23:59 |
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