IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-11-17

GeneralAntillesMilhouse, I have a lot more to go around now that I'm not reading Talk.00:00
SpeedEvilThe fundamental issue is the descision makers are entirely disconnected from the community. The descisionmaker says 'There shall be lots of blue!' - the coders implement this - the community has no input.00:00
GeneralAntillesgeneven drove me back out this morning.00:00
javispedroStskeeps: and discussion about God in TMO!00:00
MilhouseGA: And the only responses seem to be "WONT FIX" (sorry, too easy!) :)00:00
Stskeepswho the heck put Power search where 'new posts' used to be00:00
GeneralAntillesMilhouse, I've run those numbers before.00:00
lcukStskeeps, its always good to find the chan completely different hour by hour00:00
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GeneralAntillesMilhouse, INVALID and WONTFIX is actually an extreme minority.00:00
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GeneralAntillesOK, 910 WONTFIX/INVALID bugs in Applications and Platform.00:01
BBNS=] did anyone figure out the vibrator API on N900 yet?00:02
MilhouseGA: I gave up bothering about any Diablo bugs00:02
GeneralAntilles399 of which are INVALID (which, arguably, we can toss out since most of those bugs are useless).00:02
MilhouseGA: At some point the N900/Fremantle bugs will go the same way00:02
GeneralAntilles1556 bugs FIXED00:03
povbotBug 1028: Power VR mbx support00:03
* javispedro ponders reopening it...00:03
Milhouse"FIXED" or "FIXED?" ;)00:03
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GeneralAntillesMilhouse, that's a discussion I'm not willing to rehash. :)00:03
GeneralAntillesOut of 3962 total bugs00:04
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GeneralAntillesThat's a 12% WONTFIX rate of total00:05
GeneralAntillesand 16% of all resolved bugs.00:05
MilhouseHow many Diablo bugs went to WONTFIX, what was the percentage?00:05
MilhouseThen again, perhaps Diablo was a one-off00:06
javispedroI think you're confusing WONTFIX with Fixed in Fremantle..00:06
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Flandryhow does anybody get things done on Is there some secret to getting pages to load?00:06
MilhouseIt's slow as buggery00:06
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Milhousehttps is even worse.00:06
javispedroyou pray to the gods and sacrifice virgins00:07
qwerty12_N810Flandry: It involves sacrificing a goat00:07
GeneralAntilles236 WONTFIXED bugs with version set to a Diablo string out of 1228 total.00:07
MilhouseGood grief I was having such a good day today as well! ;-)00:07
Flandryi've tried repeatedly to load the page for my app package in extras-devel so i can promote it, and it always fails with PHP error00:07
GeneralAntillesFlandry, wait for the server upgrades.00:07
Flandrya goat, eh00:07
MilhouseGA: Hmmm better than I was expected... and how many actually FIXED?00:07
javispedrowell, clearly, the 770 is in a bad mood00:07
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Flandrywhen is the server upgrade? Are they going to use two 770s, or skip straight to 810s?00:08
GeneralAntillesMilhouse, anyway, I've run these numbers several times in the past. They're not great, but they're not terrible.00:08
GeneralAntillesFlandry, should be end of this month or next.00:08
MilhouseA beowulf cluster of N810s was pretty awesome00:08
Milhouses/was/would be/00:08
Flandryafter release oO00:09
qwerty12_N810Flandry: They're big spenders: One N800 will be added00:09
javispedroand the 770 donated.00:09
MilhouseGA: Fair point on the WONTFIX in that case. Ultimately though, the process can be improved that is without a doubt.00:09
Flandryok i'll just nip off to android app market for two weeks then, shall i :P00:09
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GeneralAntillesMilhouse, well, the process can ALWAYS be improved.00:10
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eeanisn't the almost TI just blantant piracy? what is it doing on :D00:11
Testereean: isnt immitation the sincerest form of flattery ? ;)00:13
Milhouseis this one of those calculator emulator thingies?00:13
javispedrono, it is not.00:13
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eeanits not immitation though00:13
eeanit has the real ROMs doesn't it?00:13
eeanwhoa really?00:14
lcukalmost ti should have a proper deal with Ti themselves, its running on a ti chip afterall.  make it really ti00:14
eeanso its emulating z80 just to allow you to run z80 binaries00:14
javispedronote that TI is distributing some of them.00:14
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eeanthat guy did a lot of work if its really not using the original roms :)00:15
javispedroit requires them.00:16
MilhouseDoes anyone do an "Almost Casio"? I used to have an FX-7000G when I were at skool00:16
eeanso it does use the original rom00:16
eeanjavispedro: why did you say no then? ...00:16
javispedroit is not distributing them.00:16
javispedroat least, not in the .deb package00:16
eeanwell I didn't install anything00:16
eeanI just selected the app from maemo apps00:17
MilhouseOh look, TI Calcultor ROMs for download:
eeanwell I guess thats the case then, ti doesn't care00:17
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MilhouseActually the above link is NOT for downloading ROMs, it just explains how to do it from a real calculator. Distributing TI Calculator ROMs is apparently illegal.00:18
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eeanoh ok that makes more sense00:19
* GeneralAntilles is inclined to trust RST38h.00:19
javispedrooh no, you pinged him! now he will come and take revenge on those poor mortals00:19
MilhouseTPB is your friend it would seem for TI ROMs00:20
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lcukticalc people are in sweden and disclaim all knowledge of dodgy stuff on their site00:20
Milhouse32.9MB zip containing most ROMS on The Pirate Bay00:20
eeanMilhouse: you can get them from as well :D00:21
MilhouseIn which case I would agree with whoever asked the question - that might be a tad suspect.00:21
lcukdid we work out if they are in the package00:21
lcukor if they are a postinst download00:21
eeanwell it would've been a really fast download :)00:21
eeanI can ask dpkg, just a sec00:21
pupnik_wow milhouse is back :) salut00:21
Milhousehello pupnik :)00:22
* GeneralAntilles wonders idly why FIASCO images are always just that.00:22
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Chanimy friend gave me a login to his server where he's set up sccratchbox. supposedly it works fine for him, but for me there are no targets...00:23
pupnik_because the naming followed the creation?m  what is wrong?00:23
Chani[sbox-: ~] > sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL00:23
javispedrowell, as long as you use the FIASCO update.00:23
Chanisb-conf: No such target: FREMANTLE_ARMEL00:23
eeanChani: are you the same user as your friend?00:24
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* javispedro bangs head at the sight of yet another word per word duplicate thread on tm00:24
eeanlcuk: yea the roms are part of the main package00:24
Chanieean: nope00:24
pupnik_i am amazed at n900 keyboard.  it is like sitting on cake, as my muscovite gf used to say00:25
MilhouseThe author of Almost TI seems to hosting his own ROMs00:25
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Chanieean: also, I don't have root and he has a paper due soon. maybe it'd be easier to set it up locally...00:25
Flandrysitting on cake? :D00:25
Milhousepupnik: So is that good? ;-)00:25
pupnik_yea.  cushy ride00:25
Chaniit doesn't *sound* good00:25
eeanChani: did you try straight sb-conf? are you sure it isn't already setup?00:26
Chanieean: I'm sure. when I logged in it told me I had no targets and I should go configure some in sb-menu00:26
pupnik_Flandry: are you workin on UQM?00:26
eeanChani: an right sb-menu is what I meant :)00:26
Flandryi'm just waiting for it to past extras-testing00:26
Flandryi think it's ready to go00:27
Chanihow much space does a maemo environment usually take?00:27
* CoreFusion- is back00:27
eeanChani: i've never tried scratchbox with multiple users, I think each user gets their own targets and stuff.00:27
Flandry*get past00:27
Chani...and how much *more* space will it take for all the dependencies of plasma-mobile, I wonder...00:27
pupnik_the config package conflicts with installed uqm main package00:27
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eeanChani: well once you start building stuff it starts taking a lot :D00:27
Flandrysay what? oO00:28
pupnik_looks ok so far - check if planet rotation stop patch is applied.  i heard game continues to calculate rotating planet visual while driving on planet00:28
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pupnik_also i have been toying with combat difficulty00:29
pupnik_for the over 30 crows00:29
Flandryit's built from svn from two weeks ago00:29
Flandryoh, i fiddled with that too00:29
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Flandrythe frame rate is currently hard coded as 24 fps00:29
Chanieean: ya, no surprise there :P I think kde stuff is taking about 45gigs for me right now00:29
Flandryi was thinking of making it a variable00:30
pupnik_well maybe you can ask the uqm devs Flandry00:30
pupnik_right.  good00:30
Chanioh foo00:30
eeanChani: haha yea :D this is a problem for scratchbox since its pretty insistent about living in your root00:30
Chaniscratchbox is going to want to use /00:30
* Chani hugs LVM00:30
pupnik_fps was my preffered slider a.sp00:30
Chanican I give /scratchbox its own partition, though?00:30
eeanyou could also use a virtual machine00:31
Chanibeh, that would take even more space, no?00:31
Mekjust make sure it is not mounted nodev, like usb drives usually are :)00:31
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Chanimy teacher said he had one set up... then said it was 10 gigs00:31
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Flandrythe thing i'm not sure about is that decreasing fps makes the game easier. Have you found it to be?00:31
Flandryit decreases responsiveness, for one thing00:32
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Flandrypupnik_: could you please explain what package error you were describing?00:33
eeanChani: well a virtual machine is a whole OS. :) there's a ubuntu-based one that you could download00:33
Chaniyeah, I know.00:34
pupnik_flandry the config patch matches uqm and conflicts somewhere00:34
eeanChani: or I could give you my public key and I could try to fix your account. or that might be weird since its your friends computer.00:34
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pupnik_want error message in german?00:35
Flandrysorry, what config patch? you mean the "uqm-altstart"?00:35
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Flandryoh, that's intentional. The uqm-altstart should be manually removed and i asked for it to be removed from repo00:36
Flandryit was a mistake to create it00:36
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Flandrythanks for testing :)00:36
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FlandryOnce the current release gets into extras without any more issues i will look into optimizations and difficulty options. It's hard to do without an actual device and i hope to get an N900 soon :)00:38
CoreFusion-flandry: what are you making?00:39
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Flandryi packaged Ur-Quan Masters (Star control 2)00:40
dmj726I just came to the rather frightening realization that Blender is usable at 800x48000:40
pupnik_the music is so good00:40
Flandryyes, it's awesome. That game blew me away when i first played it00:41
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Termanablender? usable? your pulling my leg00:42
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CoreFusion-haha, and when was that :P it's not exactly a new new game :P00:43
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CoreFusion- 1 new00:43
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CoreFusion-- 1 new*00:43
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toddfhas anyone seen links or howto's or other instructions on loading a different kernel or an alternate os on a N900 ?00:43
Flandryback when it came out, of course. The music is still good by today's standards, i'd say00:44
GeneralAntillesAh, I see wazd's a bit down in the dumps.00:45
dmj726I shrunk the 2.5 interface window to 800x48000:45
GeneralAntillesDo we need to open a donation fund for him?00:45
Shapeshifterthe n900 needs hal, right?00:45
Shapeshifterand runs it00:45
dmj726it looks crowded, but not to the point where it would be useless00:45
dmj726stylus required if you were to use it on the n90000:46
lcukdmj726, give us a realistic 800*480 screenshot in png format00:46
lcukor something decent, lets have a looksee00:47
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GeneralAntillesdmj726, that's sick.00:50
lbthas anyone used gnokki with the n900 ?00:50
dmj726That's just running in Ubuntu 9.10 of course00:50
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well it kinda sucks ddp doesnt answer and not shipping to russia..00:52
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, I know, DDP sucks.00:52
Milhousemy credit card hasn't been charged - has anyone had their card charged by ddp?00:54
GeneralAntillesMilhouse, supposedly shipping should start next week.00:54
CoreFusion-It will come eventually :P00:54
Milhousenext week? bummer.00:54
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Anidelis it confirmed that ddp devices come with no warranty?00:55
timelessanidel: if you don't get a warranty, i'd suggest you be extremely careful w/ the usb port00:56
CoreFusion-how on earth could it be possible to buy a new phone that doesn't have warranty?00:57
Anidelthat's what they state in their web pages ...00:57
CoreFusion-doesn't nokia provide a 2 year warranty anyway? (at least in EU)00:57
Anideltimeless :) but I do want a warranty00:58
GeneralAntillesAnidel, dunno.00:58
Anidelcorefusion: no.. 1 year.. 2 year is something you find only in Italy AFAIK00:58
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CoreFusion-hmm, i'm sure it's 2 years00:59
GeneralAntillesAnidel, half the stuff with the DDP program doesn't seem to apply.00:59
GeneralAntillesAnidel, the whole process is horribly broken.00:59
CoreFusion-at least here in finland they have 2 years warranty00:59
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GeneralAntillesRight from the start with them demanding you input a company name.00:59
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Anidelga: i know.. but it 'd be nice is someone would tell me yes the warranty is there01:00
Anidelheck it's 250 euros01:00
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Chanithe wiki instructions for installing scratchbox aren't quite right01:00
* Chani is following
CoreFusion-and that's good cos i'll be paying it for the next 2 years :P01:00
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GeneralAntillesAnidel, yeah, I'd love for anything about the DDP to be made clear.01:00
Chani[root@brain maemo]# ./ -u chani01:00
ChaniE: Give installation path using '-s PATH' argument.01:00
GeneralAntillesAnidel, sadly is one big obnoxious mess.01:01
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Anidelga: of course I've emailed them.. no answer01:01
Anidelyeah indeed01:01
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Anidel, sadly it's one big obnoxious mess.01:01
timelessgan: has anyone indicated  which group runs ddp?01:01
Anidelthanks, infobot :p01:01
timelessfrom memory the n8x0 distributions were also unhappy experiences01:02
GeneralAntillestimeless, Forum Nokia? Dunno.01:02
Chanirunning a script I downloaded as root and getting an error.. makes me a little nervous about just trying things until it works01:02
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timelesschani: use virtualbox01:02
MilhouseI've just emailed Nora asking for clarification on the warranty issue.01:02
timelessthere's an image somewhere01:02
MilhouseNora @ DDP01:02
Chanioh great, maemo doesn't like my kernel01:03
Chanitimeless: yeah, maybe I will01:03
Anidelwe complained in t.m.o but Quim never commented on those posts.. that scares me01:03
Milhouseyeah, odd that.01:03
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MilhouseIf/when I get a reply from Nora I'll update the thread accordingly.01:04
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Anidelthey replied to andrea grandi who wrote few days after me.. he also asked about the warranty but no comments on that01:04
eeanChani: heh what issue does maemo have with your kernel?01:05
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timelesseean: eh?01:06
Chanieean: it wants me to disable VDSO01:06
timelessoh yeah01:06
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javispedroChani: and you don't want to disable VDSO? or you can't?01:07
Milhousenight all01:07
eeanChani: its a runtime kernel option, its not a feature of the kernel01:07
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Anidelnite milhouse01:07
timelessthat's sbox 1 sucking01:07
timelessuse sbox 201:07
Chanijavispedro: I'm just feeling discouraged by all these little things not going quite right01:07
javispedroI fixed the  sbox issue.01:08
ChaniI don't want to end up hosing my laptop somehow; I forgot to do backups *again*01:08
timelesschani: so...01:08
javispedroChani: by disabling vdso you're not going to hose anything. maybe lose a bit of performance.01:08
timelesssbox is essentially *old* technology01:08
Chaniso I'll probably do backups tonight and work on this tomorrow01:08
timelesspast EOL01:08
Anideluff need to fix the damn rotation.. why on hell people required rotation :(01:08
ChaniI have homework anyways01:08
timelessthat it doesn't work out of the box w/ newer kernel designs/features isn't paricularly surprising01:09
timelessthis is Linux after all, not Solaris01:09
javispedrowell, it is surprising for me.01:09
Anideltimeless :)01:09
javispedrospecially such a static linked program as sbox.01:09
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timelessno promises are made about compatibility of any kind01:09
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timelessw/ solaris, if the authors had a support contract, there'd be an official patch cluster (chain&01:10
timelessjavispedro: seriously, that's what paying for support and contracting for interfaces mean01:11
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* timeless happens to like snv-101:12
javispedrosure. it just surprises me.01:12
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javispedroprobably not used to paying such levels of support :)01:12
timeless(a zone whose only purpose is to claim to be one major os version older than the global zone)01:12
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timeless_mbpwell, it isn't quite like that01:15
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timeless_mbpa company would basically review the apis they're using and see if any of them aren't listed as having a certain stability level01:15
timeless_mbpand for those they'd make an agreement with sun01:15
timeless_mbpor sun would suggest an alternative01:15
timeless_mbpbut my impression is that it wouldn't cost that much01:16
timeless_mbppeople seem to think of companies as being unreasonably demanding about payment01:16
timeless_mbpbut it's really rarely the case.... an os/hardware vendor *wants* software for its platform because it drives sales01:16
javispedroin my case, probably because I still look at them from an individual PoV.01:18
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javispedroeither way, the vdso issue is ancient, and of course, fixed by some idiot... now why it's not included yet is over me.01:19
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wazd~seen fiferboy01:23
infobotfiferboy <n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 4h 53m 50s ago, saying: 'If qwerty12 doesn't know it, it can't be known'.01:23
GeneralAntilleswazd, :(01:23
GeneralAntillesDun buy an HD2. :(01:24
wazdGeneralAntilles: that's a  nice phone)01:24
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GeneralAntilleswazd, c'mon, DDP sucks, but we NEED you.01:24
wazdGeneralAntilles: i'm not going anywhere as I  said :)01:25
GeneralAntillesYes, but we need you to have an N900. :P01:25
* w00t_ mutters about release dates01:26
wazdGeneralAntilles: I love this community so I'll stay here for a while)01:26
fralshmm, mozilla weave seems pretty nice01:26
GeneralAntilleswazd, don't decide anything just yet, OK?01:26
javispedroyeah, some people emailed the DDP team today01:27
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zerojaywazd: What happened?01:28
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Anidel0j: he can have the device discounted, but seems he can't have access to it via and no reply so far from them...01:30
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zerojayAll because of where he lives, I imagine.01:31
Anidellooks like01:31
wazdI'm not living in Kenya01:32
wazdWhat's wrong with russia, it's a freaking neighbour country  for finland01:33
javispedroand nokia has a store there don't them?01:33
javispedrono excuse.01:33
wazdYes, we have nokia  store01:34
Anideland is nokia selling the n900 there as well?01:34
Anidelthere'll be a meetup event in Moscow01:35
wazdI was trying to  ask what should I expect for like 3 weeks01:35
zerojaywazd: The fact that there is a meetup in Moscow makes all of this really stupid.01:35
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wazdBoth ddp and quim01:35
javispedroI think it's just general DDP stupidity and nothing country specific.01:35
wazdzerojay: yep01:35
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wazdSo I'd better expect nothing and live happily again01:37
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Anidelbut probably you can have it shipped somewhere else and someone will ship it back to you?01:37
GeneralAntilleswazd, who from Nokia is gonna be at the meetup?01:37
GeneralAntillesCould they bring one?01:38
wazdGeneralAntilles: don't know01:38
GeneralAntilleswazd, email Quim again.01:38
wazdGeneralAntilles: some marketing guy  I guess01:38
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, ping?01:38
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, pong01:39
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, this seems like a good case for a chair. :P01:39
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wazdQuim probably don't have much time cause of that Barcelona stuff, so I'd rather don't bother him much01:40
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Anidelwazd I think this is exactly something quim should check out01:40
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, beleive me I already insisted a lot in this issue, seems that some matters in the community end up in some kind of black hole :(01:42
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wazdWell, whatever, I'm staying here anyway, I can buy n900 for the full price anytime01:43
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wazdIronic, but effective :D01:44
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javispedrowell, without warranty and without any indication the ddp devices will ship some day.... it's not that much of a loss.01:44
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VDVsxwazd, you can also try to ship it to one of the neighbor countries where some community folk lives :)01:45
derfNokia does seem to go out of its way to make DDP participants feel like second-class citizens.01:46
wazdVDVsx: to ship what?)01:46
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VDVsxthe device01:46
wazdVDVsx: I can buy  retail right here)01:46
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VDVsxwazd, thats good news ;)01:46
wazdVDVsx: and ddp doesn't work anyway01:46
VDVsxwazd, probably you can buy a cheap one locked to a carrier ;)01:47
wazdVDVsx: for a shitload of cash though. I hope they'll tell the price  on the meettup01:47
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VDVsxwazd, steal one there ;)01:48
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wazdVDVsx: we haven't got locked devices here01:48
* VDVsx bets that Jussi will be in that meetup01:48
wazdVDVsx: it's against the law01:48
MacerStskeeps: ?01:49
wazdVDVsx: I really doubt that there will  be anyone important01:49
VDVsxwazd, so you can only have a device with discount trough a contract ?01:50
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VDVsxwazd, it's a official meetup, so someone important should be there01:50
wazdVDVsx: No discounts at all01:50
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wazdVDVsx: some russian marrketing dummy at most :D01:51
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VDVsxwazd, lol01:51
wazdOh look, panoramic desctop!01:51
zashwazd: maemo+1?01:52
wazdError :D01:53
VDVsxwazd, make some friends there, since eldar seems a bit pissed with Nokia, maybe they can 'pass' 'exclusive' devices to you ;)01:53
zash"panoramic desktop"01:53
wazdVDVsx: bwahaha01:53
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b-man17Stskeeps: i have the installation mode selection menu up and running in Mer-Installer:  :)01:54
wazdVDVsx: they can't pass me n900 what are you talking bout :D01:54
VDVsxwazd, maybe a n920/n950/nWhatever ;)01:55
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VDVsxAnidel, I prefer the n5000, the kb is much better;)01:56
Anidellet's call it C64..01:56
Anidelmm... will Frodo run on the N900?01:56
wazdVDVsx: not sure that after Eldar's deeds they still want to deal with russians01:57
wazdMy case proves that :)01:57
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GeneralAntilleswazd, hush. :P01:58
VDVsxwazd, they seems to have some sort of hard feelings with Russia based in the history, lol01:59
wazdVDVsx: damn))01:59
qwerty12_N810wazd: Yeah, stop hogging Karelia!02:00
wazdI should return to the past and prevent the attack of the USSR :D02:00
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GeneralAntilleswazd, you know, you're not going to like the community as much once you find the secret document revealing VDVsx's culpability in preventing you from getting a device.02:01
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* wazd shakes with nuclear briefcase in front of qwerty12 :P02:01
GeneralAntillesYou know you can't trust people with two names. . . .02:02
wazdAnd now, meet my bear Ivan :D02:02
Anidelhey qwerty1202:02
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qwerty12_N810Hiya, Anidel. How's it going?02:02
Anidelpretty good..02:03
Anidelabout to go to sleep02:03
qwerty12_N810#maemo keeps me awake (mostly)02:04
Anidelthat's good ;)02:05
wazdOh my, 3AM02:05
pupniknice work on xchat network dialogue by peter zelezny.  it would be nice if chanlist were left-aligned   and used a new maemo5 scrolly list02:05
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GeneralAntillespupnik_, bottom tabs.02:05
qwerty12_N810XChat takes no criticism, I see =)02:05
b-man17qwerty12_N810: how much sleep do you get on a daily basis? xD02:05
wazdAhaha, Ironman :D02:06
qwerty12_N810b-man17: ~6 hours02:06
b-man17not bad :)02:06
w00t_sleep is overrated02:08
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wazdWell, gonna get some sleep, cya tomorrow guys02:08
w00t_sleep is overrated02:08
GeneralAntillesLater, wazd.02:08
qwerty12_N810'night, wazd02:08
GeneralAntillesAnybody watching Venture Bros season 4.02:08
wazdYou're overrated, w00t! :D02:08
w00t_never! :P night wazd02:08
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VDVsxgnite wazd :)02:09
b-man17too late xD02:09
w00t_pet msn hatred: when someone starts writing at the same time as me, and we both stop to see what the other says02:09
Anidelif I port Xournal to the Lumix GF1 camera will Panasonic lend me it?02:09
qwerty12_N810Anidel: Yes, but it requires a £300 deposit of which Panasonic may choose not to return to you02:10
Anidelthat's fine :D02:10
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pupnikhimjphnxhow are you doing,02:45
pupnikwow, not ready to touch-tzpe without looking02:45
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johnxgazunteit (sp?) :)02:45
johnxdoin' good02:46
johnxpretty darn tired though02:46
johnxgot like 4 hours of sleep this morning02:46
GeneralAntillespupnik, how many years have you been using computers? :P02:46
GeneralAntillesjohnx, high five!02:46
pupniki hit m a lot trying for space02:46
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johnxpupnik, n900?02:46
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pupnikyes johnx02:48
pupnikon n800 i hit n02:49
johnxhey, UPNP/DLNA people: how strange of an idea is it to think of an x server whose framebuffer is a DLNA renderer. does that make any sense?02:49
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GeneralAntillesThis is a bit depressing
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timeless_mbpGAN900: i think we have a couple of hundred fixes for that release fwiw02:53
CoreFusion-GA, lol02:53
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timeless_mbpbut realistically, the release ingredients were mostly selected before summit02:53
CoreFusion-Solution: By a decent access point02:53
GeneralAntillesCoreFusion-, the search recipe is the interesting part, not the bug listed. ;)02:54
CoreFusion-GeneralAntilles: Oh, ok. Still, the bug was hilarious02:54
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johnxwait, "fixed"? is that a real fix or just changing what "maximum" does?02:55
GeneralAntillesjohnx, who the hell knows.02:56
johnxi guess I will after I check the diff :)02:57
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CoreFusion-Can't wait for my N900 and helping out in testing software :)03:03
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ljpme too03:05
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GeneralAntillesMan, there is some really buggy behavior when you long-tap to activate edit mode in h-d.03:11
w00t_buggy in what way?03:12
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GeneralAntillesw00t_, applets shoot all over the place, desktops switch, etc.03:13
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* b-man17 wishes that Esbox had a syntax-cleanup function for python03:17
w00t_GeneralAntilles: that sounds ..unpleasant03:18
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GeneralAntillesw00t_, indeed.03:18
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* w00t_ hopes that gets fixed soon03:19
GeneralAntillesJust don't tap'n'hold to edit, I guess.03:19
w00t_well, I'm not overly concerned03:20
GeneralAntillesUse the menu, instead.03:20
w00t_shipping is still up in the air, so I've nothing to tap ;)03:20
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GeneralAntillesFor future reference.03:20
w00t_are you using the updated fw?03:21
GeneralAntillesYeah, just installed 42-1103:21
CoreFusion-Is that the one that comes installed on the N900 when it ships?03:22
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CoreFusion-How is it?03:22
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CoreFusion-Much improvement?03:22
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GeneralAntillesNot sure yet03:23
CoreFusion-It's been 2 months since I have tried a N900 so I guess it's a big improvement to that :)03:23
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CoreFusion-but now i really have to go get some sleep... already 3:24 in the morning....03:24
* CoreFusion- goes to sleep03:25
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XisdibikHello Maemoers03:35
XisdibikDoes anyone here have a pre-order from the US?03:36
Xisdibik(i mean have they pre-ordered, not have they recieved their phone)03:36
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GeneralAntillesLots of people, surely.03:39
pwnguini preordered with newegg03:40
pwnguin559, free shipping no sales tax03:41
Xisdibikim trying to see which place might actualy get it first03:41
Xisdibikas some of the stuff on the forums makes it sound like Amazon and the like are getting their shipments way late, and Dell will be sending it sooner03:42
pwnguinthey'll probably all get it at the same time03:43
pwnguinnewegg shows it ships on the 30th, and dell was saying you'd recieve a few days later03:43
pwnguinbut i thougt dell took their order page down03:44
pwnguinhmm. theres a rebate listed at amazon03:45
Xisdibiki dont want to get my phone way later than other people03:46
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pwnguinyou already have03:47
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pwnguintheres like 300 people with n900s out there already03:47
Xisdibikim talking about retail ones03:48
Xisdibikim 100% ok with GeneralAntilles having a N900 before me ;)03:48
SpeedEvilSelling the n900?03:48
Xisdibikdell is apparently the  "only authorized dealer" in USA03:49
w00t_SpeedEvil: have you been living in a cave? :p03:49
pwnguinit was in the magazine they sent03:49
Xisdibikbesides nokiaUSA03:49
SpeedEvilDo they sell random computer stuff?03:49
SpeedEvilw00t_: I have - for obvious reasons - not been researching the US retail market.03:49
pwnguindell sells monitors, video games other crap now03:49
w00t_SpeedEvil: sure, but neither am I03:49
w00t_(given that I live in the UK)03:49
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pwnguinit was quite a deal03:49
pwnguin599.99 and came with a 15 percent off coupon, and discover does 10 percent cash back through dell03:50
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GeneralAntillesVenture Bros season 4 is amazing.03:55
pwnguin1, 2, and 3 were not?03:56
GeneralAntillesThey were, season 4 is even better, however.03:56
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GeneralAntillesAh, good, Python is opitfied now.04:14
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johnxsooo, am I being dumb or does not include the .desktop file that makes it a "pack"?05:18
Xisdibiki must be really dumb then since i have no idea what your talking about :D05:20
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johnxthe n900 has the concept of "wallpaper packs" that include 4 wallpapers, one for each desktop05:21
smackpotatowhat does this mean05:21
smackpotatolock ->
johnxsmackpotato, a little context?05:21
smackpotatook its a link to a socket is my guess05:21
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smackpotatofrom ls  ~/mozzila/microb05:22
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johnxis it the current PID?05:23
johnxprocess ID05:23
smackpotatoi sec05:24
smackpotato1 sec05:24
mzzthat's a symlink using the ip and pid as "target" (it's a trick)05:24
mzzit's not a link to a socket or something like that, it's a lockfile of sorts05:24
mzz(presumably it's a symlink instead of an actual file because you can create those atomically)05:25
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smackpotatoso it disapears when microb is off05:25
johnxyou can't 'touch' atomically?05:26
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smackpotatoim trying to put all that directory on a ram drive to see if it speeds up microb05:27
smackpotatoi think i have it now05:27
mzzjohnx: yes, but you can't touch *and* write something identifying yourself into a lockfile atomically05:28
mzzjohnx: so if two instances try to write the lockfile at the same time there's a race condition05:28
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johnxah, cool :)05:29
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, they don't05:37
GeneralAntillesjohnx, since normal people don't know how to install those.05:37
GeneralAntillesjohnx, but PR1.1 should allow you to use really wide images instead.05:37
johnxin the interim, xarchiver+zipfile seems like a great alternative05:37
GeneralAntillesI was recommending pushing big desktop packages to Extras.05:38
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johnxI don't see why both methods can't coexist happily05:39
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GeneralAntillesJust sayin'05:39
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XisdibikGeneralAntilles: are you building any apps yourself (just curious)05:42
* GeneralAntilles doesn't really do developer stuff.05:43
GeneralAntillesI'm a community, documentation, web, bullshit guy.05:43
Xisdibikgotcha, still helpful from what ive seen of you :D05:44 mental capacity is rapidly dropping below the ability to edit simple text files05:47
GeneralAntillesjohnx, time to get more sleep.05:47
johnxI already slept once this week05:47
johnxI should be good for at least another couple days05:48
GeneralAntillesThat explains it.05:48
johnxyeah, too much sleep, not enough stimutacs05:48
povbotBug 5783: Smooth scrolling not active using arrow keys until current page tapped05:48
GeneralAntillesAh, whore, slow clipboard.05:48
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GeneralAntillesWhy is Nokia too good to use frickin' ctrl-l?05:49
johnxwait for it, wait for it: "not discoverable"05:50
Xisdibikwhats ctrl-l05:50
johnxeither that or they drank the firefox-mobile koolaid05:50
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, and ctrl-shift-* are? ;)05:50
johnxXisdibik, go over to your browser and hit ctrl+L05:50
GeneralAntillesXisdibik, focuses on the address bar in nearly every browser since the stoneage?05:50
johnxnot IE :)05:50
GeneralAntillesNearly every05:50
GeneralAntillesand I've been using that shortcut (well, cmd-l) since System 7.05:51
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Xisdibikselects the URL box and highlights everything in it?05:51
johnxin IE it pops up the annoying URL entry box of annoyingness. still pretty close though05:51
Xisdibikdidnt know that05:51
Xisdibikgood to know thanks!Q05:51
johnxXisdibik, yup. very handy :)05:51
GeneralAntillesand bugs like this, folks, are why we don't want more Nokia-controlled applications.05:51
johnxGeneralAntilles, hey, they said they'd be opening the browser more. is there source for all of it now?05:52
GeneralAntillesjohnx, no.05:52
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I dunno what the story is there.05:52
GeneralAntillesMore broken promises, presumably.05:52
johnx...aaaaand, back to tear :)05:52
GeneralAntillesTear is broken.05:52
GeneralAntillesIt's just another set of irritating bugs to deal with.05:52
GeneralAntillesAt least I'm used to the MicroB ones.05:52
johnxbrowsers take a *long* time to mature05:52
johnxGeneralAntilles, no, you *were* used to the microb problems, but there are new ones with each release :>05:53
Xisdibikhey GeneralAntilles what OS are you using atm?05:53
GeneralAntillesOS X05:53
Xisdibikbah, shoulda seen that coming :P05:53
johnxGeneralAntilles, did I tell you about my planned 'iMac abomination'? I can't remember ...05:54
GeneralAntillesTwice now. :P05:54
johnxI got that file edited at least05:54
Xisdibikjohnx: what iMac abomination, i want to hear05:54
GeneralAntillesIt's like Nokia's UI people are all on drugs.05:55
johnxXisdibik, I want to take a beagleboard, and stick it in the base of a G4 iMac (the iLamp one), along with a couple beefy 9-cell laptop batteries for power05:56
Xisdibikand then do what with it?05:56
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johnxmaybe put it in the kitchen for recipes? hadn't really thought that far ahead05:57
johnxbasically thinking light inet surfing05:58
johnxjust reflashed, getting set back up ...05:58
Xisdibikjohnx: what do you need all the batteries for, would u move it around alot or something?05:59
* GeneralAntilles restored a backup.05:59
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johnxXisdibik, weight05:59
johnxyeah, also being able to move it without worrying about it06:00
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pwnguintranslate_tts?q=Sweet zombie Jesus!&tl=en06:02
johnxwow...can it do stt?06:03
pwnguini donno. its about time someone redid tts06:03
pwnguini actually took a look at the source corpus for the festival stuff06:04
pwnguinits obvious why it's terrible now.06:04
pwnguintheir initial recording quality wasn't very good.06:04
pwnguinproblem is, it's a massive pita to re-record06:05
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* johnx sleeps now06:07
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Xisdibiknight johnx06:08
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XisdibikGeneralAntilles: you sleeping as well yet?06:14
GeneralAntillesIt's only 11:1406:14
Xisdibikeast coaster!06:18
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GeneralAntillesCanada sucks.06:25
XisdibikUnited States of Whatever?06:27
GeneralAntillesUnited Statse of Florida06:37
Xisdibikclass over06:37
Xisdibikheading home06:37
dmj726anyway to access files on the system partition via the file manager?06:37
dmj726okay...xterm works too.06:43
dmj726I'm evaluating how well n900 will work for a little quick on the go hacking.06:43
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dmj726Seems like a bit of python hacking would be doable.06:48
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GeneralAntillesdmj726, Khertan does his programming almost exclussively on the N810.07:12
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kirmat.m.o seems to be playground for folks with attention span comparable to a fruit fly these days08:37
kirmano intent to insult fruit flies...08:38
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kirmaI must admit I'm intrigued to have any hint of when my N900 might arrive, but good God, that forum behavior is childish.08:41
tigertits the same with any forum08:42
tigertthe critical mass of people brings in the adhd08:42
inztigert, "you too the feet out of my mouth"08:42
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RST38hkirma: Just ignore anyone with join date >=Sep200908:43
RST38hYou won't get that many false positives08:43
kirmawell, I haven't even joined the forum... unless some ancient account has been transferred to it08:45
kirmajust lurking around since haven't had much to say, or even much to ask, want to get the device first...08:46
tigerti think garage accounts work there too?08:46
tigertyou just need to login there too afair08:47
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kirmawell, I mean - I might have *some* account from early 770 times.08:48
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kirmathese things called "work" and "life" just take so much time and energy that I haven't been overly eager to rampage in again ;)08:49
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Xisdibik_is the General asleep?08:52
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tekojotigert garage account works where?08:54
tekojofor now talk and garage use separate accounts, we are looking at single sign on for everything, but it requires a lot of work08:55
tigertmaybe i remember wrong then08:56
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tekojoit's in the works, but we haven't been vocal about it, should talk more in talk about it08:58
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tigertmaybe i just created another account with same credentials there then09:22
tigertor bergie made me into a guineapig :)09:22
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dmj726these netsplits are getting crazy10:07
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hendryis there a trick besides running the internet radio on Diablo devices to keep the wifi connection up and stable?10:40
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KhertanOuch i fear this morning when i see a rescuing software update when rebooting my n90010:49
Khertanhendry: using a real router ...10:49
Khertanhendry: i didn't have any problem10:49
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Stskeepslardman|gone: ping10:51
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JaffaMorning, all10:52
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RST38hEHLO, Sts, Jaffa, lardman, Khertan10:53
JaffaKhertan: Going to finish/continue work on mSaber?10:53
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KhertanJaffa: not yet ... but i ll ...10:56
* Jaffa 's son loves it10:56
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KhertanJaffa: currently the planning is to finish PyGTKEditor before10:56
Khertanto be able to edit code easily :)10:56
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Khertanbut i ve still some error in the code syntax hilight ...10:57
Khertansomeone know what is this red message displayed at startup saying restoring last software update ?10:58
Khertani got this, this morning10:58
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Khertanbut i don't know why10:59
wazdheya all10:59
RST38hheya wazd10:59
Stskeepsmorning wazd11:00
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Anidelmorning all11:04
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wazdAnidel: heya11:07
Anidelhey wazd11:07
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povbotBug 6219: Modest doesn't take care of preferences for automatic update11:09
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Stskeeps - neat11:13
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alteregoMy girlfriend wants to buy me my N900 ..11:16
alteregoI can't let her spend that much on me that's insanel11:16
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* Myrtti feels insane, plans to buy one for herself11:17
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alteregoShe's not interested in my gadgets :P11:20
alteregoShe just knows I really want one and I don't think she has any good ideas for Christmas.11:21
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Lynourealterego: let her decide?11:21
crashanddie"[09:20] <alterego> She's not interested in my gadgets :P" <-- poor you.11:21
crashanddie(btw, that sentence sounded so wrong on so many levels)11:22
Lynourealterego: maybe she can get you a gift certificate for the part of it11:22
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alteregoLynoure: yeah, I was thinking that.11:22
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VDVsxwazd, ping11:38
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pupnik_we shoulÃd try that lightweight caching dns client11:38
pupnik_i am having to hit enter 3-1w times to get a site to load11:39
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johnxpupnik_, hmm? on your n900?11:39
johnxso you want to try something like dnsmasq?11:39
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johnxyou're already using dnsmasq11:39
johnxnext question11:40
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RST38hmoo pupnik, johnx, VDVsx11:40
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pupnik_if i oing a site twice, the dns lookup happens once?11:40
VDVsxmorning RST38h :)11:41
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pupnik_alias moo=ping11:41
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pupnik_johnx: ?11:41
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johnxpupnik_, dunno11:41
johnxmight want to look at how dnsmasq is configured11:41
johnxbut I assumed it has at least a small dns cache11:42
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johnxno reason to use it otherwise11:42
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pupnik_that is the behavior i want -- cached, selectable expiration delay11:42
pupnik_will putter11:42
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johnxyeah, dnsmasq is upstream. worth looking at there site for config options11:42
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wazdVDVsx: pong11:44
VDVsxwazd, do you still have plans to attend the barcelona long week ?11:45
VDVsxyou're not registered :p11:45
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wazdVDVsx: nope, no documents :)11:53
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VDVsxwazd, oh :(11:54
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ShapeshifterWhat does the n900 need hal for?11:55
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RST38hfor the red light11:56
pupnik_how cool is this, dnsmasq on N900?  very cool.11:56
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pupnik_ahh the cache honours time to live information. might explain why gives new ip each (or most) ping12:00
pupnik_ip addr12:00
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lardmanjeremiah: sorry, didn't have time last night to upload the pocketsphinx stuff, will try to do it at lunch time12:12
* lardman wonders why people still cling to the complicated "press home button, tweak your ear" instructions for flashing <=N810 devices.....12:14
ShapeshifterRST38h: for the red light?12:15
Shapeshifteruhm, reference to hal/dave?12:16
ShapeshifterI mean, hal is mostly needed for hotplugging hardware, but the n900 does that just about never.12:16
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Shapeshifterspecially as it doesn't do usb host mode.12:17
SpeedEvilbluetooth I spose12:17
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ensianyone know how to get kinetic scolling/finger scrolling to work with Qt on Maemo 5, qt 4.3. I found this but it doesn't appear to do a anything. I tried setting these properties both on the app/widget/window but nothing really changes.12:56
gnutonensi: Qt packages in SDK are old and there is no Kinetic scroll there13:01
ensiis this in qt 4.6 ?13:02
gnutonensi: no Qt 4.513:02
gnutonensi: Qt 4.6 doesn't have kinetic scrolling yet13:02
gnutonensi: you can get latest Qt 4.5 pkgs from here: deb fremantle extras13:03
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gnutonensi: more info at
gnutonhi hrw13:04
ensi4.6 appears to have kinetic scrolling13:04
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JaffaRST38h: You've referred to the "anonymous voting hole" on Do you know what mechanism is used for anonymous voting?13:05
hrwheh... still n900 is not shipped13:06
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shuduoanyone know how to build maemo 5 sdk from source?13:06
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timeless_mbpshuduo: eh?13:08
timeless_mbp1. get gcc. to download sources to apt13:09
timeless_mbp3. build apt13:09
shuduotimeless_mbp, i mean, is there a guide to direct me how to build it from source13:09
timeless_mbp4. waste days13:09
Khertandoes there is a way to know what is the guys which always vote thumb down on ?13:09
timeless_mbp4 takes quite a while13:09
timeless_mbpKhertan: aww, respect their right to privacy!13:09
Stskeepsfor those who are compiling stuff for N8x0 initfs:
povbotBug 3373: please provide Diablo uclibc/eabi toolchain for building stuff for initfs13:09
timeless_mbpantiprivacy dudes suck :)13:09
Khertanhum ... but stupid voting sucks too13:10
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timeless_mbplemmings are people too!13:10
timeless_mbpor are they lemmings?13:11
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Khertanhum ... i think it was something public in the profile on ... but no13:11
glass_people who take off their heads and explode like a bomb are no people13:11
timeless_mbpKhertan: iirc it was public13:12
Khertan"was" ... ok13:12
timeless_mbpglass_: aww, how dare you depersonalize people from the middle east13:12
timeless_mbpthat's the same offense most people accuse them of doing to the rest of us13:12
glass_well lemmings wear robes too13:13
glass_i think it's an illuminati conspiracy13:14
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Khertansomeone know what is this red message at startup : 'Restoring last software update : 80%'13:14
Khertani got it this morning while rebooting13:14
timeless_mbpKhertan: you want to use enus113:14
timeless_mbpthe string is better there13:14
Khertanenus1 ?13:15
Shapeshiftercan one use xmodmap on maemo?13:20
ShapeshifterI'll probably receive an n900 with a swiss/german keyboard which omits the up and down keys for é/ä keys13:20
Shapeshifterand I want to remap them to act as arrows like on the US version.13:21
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timeless_mbpShapeshifter: there are definitely ways to do things13:22
timeless_mbpbut my impression is that xmodmap doesn't normally work as people expect13:22
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: uhm, well, it does what I expect on normal machines, is it any different on maemo5?13:23
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Shapeshifterbut, let's rephrase the question, can I globally map those umlaut buttons to arrows for all apps on the n900?13:23
LupuThere's a setting for the hardware keyboard layout directly in the GUI.13:24
timeless_mbpShapeshifter: you can pick any of the shipping hardware layouts13:24
timeless_mbpin case the English layout is more to your liking13:24
ShapeshifterAh, I see.13:24
mgedminwhat, no xmodmap for fremantle yet?13:24
* timeless_mbp isn't sure how many differences the German layout has13:25
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Veggenmmm, I guess you can make your own custom Xkb.13:25
hrwquestion is: will user be able to select own keymap in preferences13:26
hrwunder Maemo4 it is not possible without 3rdparty modules13:26
VeggenI did. however, on my n810 it was "weird". Something made me think they had done weird things in the code for the norwegian layout in difference to the german.13:26
timeless_mbphrw: it's no different from maemo413:26
hrwtimeless_mbp: fucking idiots13:26
timeless_mbpbut again, you're talking about a thing which has a gui chooser13:26
timeless_mbpwhich maps to ~10 files13:26
timeless_mbpyou're root, and you're free to canibalize however many of those files as you wish13:27
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Veggenyou can just pick one of those and change it.13:27
hrwtimeless_mbp: maemo4 has all keymaps in one file13:27
timeless_mbpone file, 10 files, whatever13:27
timeless_mbpyou're still root13:27
timeless_mbpwhere's the file? :)13:27
hrwtimeless_mbp: find /usr/share -name rx*4413:27
timeless_mbp /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-5113:28
timeless_mbpok, so you just rewrite that file... i don't see a problem13:28
timeless_mbpagain, you're still root13:28
timeless_mbpand the file is presumably well documented with compilers and decompilers13:28
hrwtimeless_mbp: problem is - your changes will get lost on package updates13:28
timeless_mbpso you write a package13:29
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hrwtimeless_mbp: with lot of conflicts with original system ones?13:29
timeless_mbpyou're talking to someone who is maintaining a package that is self healing and replaces roughly 60 packages and 6000 strings13:29
timeless_mbpdoesn't hurt my package.13:29
timeless_mbpinstall enus1 and play with it13:29
timeless_mbpoh, if you don't have fremantle, just dissect it13:29
timeless_mbpsince the diablo one relied on a different approach13:29
mgedminhrw, dpkg-divert!13:31
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timeless_mbpdpkg-divert = hell13:31
* timeless_mbp is quite happy not using it13:31
mgedminI've been shipping my own custom X keymap on desktops for a couple of years with dpkg-divert13:31
mgedminthen Xorg reorganized the xkb directory layout and it broke13:31
* timeless_mbp rotfl13:31
mgedminand I decided not to be contrarian and learn the upstream layout13:31
timeless_mbp3 cheers for linux stabilitiy13:32
infobottimeless_mbp meant: 3 cheers for linux stability13:32
mgedmincheer! cheer! wait, I've got to fix 10 things broken by an upgrade ... okay now, cheer!13:32
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hrw was maemo4 - I hope that for maemo5 I will not have to reopen it13:34
povbotBug 2899: List of hardware keyboard layouts is not expandable13:34
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* ccooke seems to be having some little problems since updating to the release firmware13:41
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Stskeepsflashed mmc too?13:42
ccookethings like the screen backlight turning on, but nothing appearing for anything up to a minute13:42
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ccookeI just had a phone call - it was about 10 seconds before I could actually answer it, because the phone was ringing but the screen was still in backlight-on-no-ui mode13:43
Stskeepshad browser open?13:44
ccookeI had one IM window13:44
ccookeI ended up rebooting the phone this morning, because it took more than a minute to turn on the UI13:44
mgedminphone out of ram?13:45
ccooke(same problem: Backlight, no ui visible. Except that time it never came up13:45
wazdoh, my 2630 has the same bug :D13:45
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wazdIt rings but shows stand by screen :)13:45
ccooke... yikes!13:45
ccooke350M of swap in use?!13:46
mgedminI've had similar symptos (bug 5712) but I was doing something specific to trigger it13:46
povbotBug N900 goes into swap hell with frozen UI, despite free RAM13:46
ccookethis thing's only running a terminal!13:46
mgedminnormally it uses about 100--150 megs of swap13:46
ccookeI know13:47
mgedminI've seen it use 250 megs of swap while the UI remained perfectly smooth and responsive13:47
mgedminI was impressed13:47
ccookeand you'd expect less than 100 on a just-rebooted phone13:47
ccooke... and there doesn't seem to be anything using up that much memory13:47
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ccookeHmm. I put the problem down to the mail app this morning, but IIRC I didn't stop it updating mail until *after* the reboot13:48
ccookeI wonder if there's a leak13:48
* ccooke reboots again, now that he can be sure it won't auto-refresh as soon as the device is back up13:48
* mgedmin recommends vmstat as a tool to see what's happening13:48
mgedminbtw just after boot my n900 starts running the thumbnailer for a while with cpu at 100%13:49
mgedminthat goes away after a few minutes13:49
mgedminpresumably when it notices all those gigabytes of media files have already been thumbnailed13:49
ccookeMem: total 245548, used: 236768, free: 8780, shared: 0, buffers: 476813:49
ccookeswap in use: 35544813:50
* mgedmin plans to reflash the new firmware soon13:50
mgedminbut backups etc. a hassle13:50
ccookeI have a strong feeling this is the email client13:51
ccookeEverything was fine until I set that up13:51
ccookeSoon know...13:51
mgedminhow many thousand emails in your inbox?13:51
ccookeoh, no. 13.513:52
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ccooke(but while the email app was horribly slow using the prerelease OS, it still *worked*)13:52
ccookeFresh reboot: 178M of memory in use, no swap13:53
ccookeNothing shared, though13:53
aquatixwow, 13.5k emails in an inbox?13:53
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wazdWow, 178mb on fresh start?!13:53
* aquatix files those in imap folders13:53
ccookeI'm trying to recall if there was shared memory in use before - I'm sure I'd have noticed if not13:53
ccookeaquatix: so do I... Every year :-)13:54
aquatixi prefer doing it automatically and when i'm done with a certain task13:54
* frals suggests doing that monthly instead ;)13:54
mgedminsome threads span months13:55
ccookefrals: that would mean tracking stuff was much harder.13:55
RST38hwazd: N900 comes with 256MB RAM + 512MB ROM13:55
aquatixmgedmin: those tend to live in folders then here :)13:55
ccookeNo, I suggest using a mail client that actually works ;-)13:55
aquatixbut everyone his own system of course13:55
aquatixccooke: ghehe13:55
mgedminRST38h, is that a quote from some clueless article?13:55
aquatixclaws-mail \o/13:55
fralsGood point.. :P13:55
wazdRST38h: well, XP had smaller memory footprint on load :)13:56
RST38hmgedmin: No, it is the memory chip specs13:56
RST38hwazd: Well, it's Linux, open source!13:56
mgedmin256 MB RAM + 256 MB NAND flash, yes13:56
mgedminwhere is the 512 MB ROM hidden?13:56
RST38hmgedmin: Ok, I stand corrected then13:56
RST38hmgedmin: I mean NAND flash by ROM13:56
kirmawhat kernel N900 runs nowadays, .31? wasn't that supposed to handle swapping better?13:57
Stskeepsif it was 512mb nand, we wouldn't worry about opt13:57
wazdRST38h: ah, I forgot :D13:57
* mgedmin just read an entertaining article exploring the differences of ROM and flash memory, among other things:
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ccookeaquatix: claws mail is better?13:57
fralskirma: isnt it .28 still?13:58
* ccooke might try it13:58
kirmaI don't know, thus asking :)13:58
nomismgedmin: I was watching the talk they gave at the 22C3 conference. That was fun  :)13:58
frals.31 would be nice, network namespaces \o/13:58
aquatixccooke: at least i love it on my n81013:59
aquatixi don't have an n90013:59
ensignuton: you know about this Qt 4.6.0 package? It looks like it is broken. QMap and QList are giving me linker errors.14:00
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ccookeaquatix: I'm not sure it's available yet14:01
ccookeI was planning to port mutt, myself :-)14:01
ccookeand integrate it, if I can14:01
aquatixheh :)14:01
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aquatixwell, claws-mail is called a GUI mutt now and then; not really the same thing of course, but i really like the client14:01
aquatixuse it on my big machines as well14:02
gnutonensi: there is something broken in your installation. anyhow feel free to join #qt-maemo14:02
ccookeI don't use GUI clients when I can help it14:02
aquatixfair enough14:02
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aquatixbut they did an interesting job for the n8x014:02
fralsGod I hate public transportation in stockholm at times14:03
RST38hmgedmin: It *is* FlashROM after all =)14:03
ensignuton: i think its the package that is broken.14:04
mgedminis mutt directly on the nxx0 better than mutt over ssh?14:04
mgedminmutt's imap facilities seemed a tad slow to me when I tried it on my laptop14:05
gnutonensi: Maybe I didn't tried those packages yet14:05
wazdfrals: God is a jerk that breaks t.m.o. forums, what do you want :D14:05
mgedminI used ssh mymailserver + mutt on my n8x014:05
fralswazd: haha :D14:05
mgedminmodest on the n900 is actually more convenient than ssh + mutt for me, for the first time14:05
mgedminkudos to modest devs!14:05
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tbfccooke: aquatix: 13.5k emails in inbox are easy to achieve thanks to all those spamers14:18
tbfbut most of them should be hidden and marked as spam14:18
tbfmail is dead.14:18
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aquatixtbf: myeah, my spam is filtered away to a spam folder on my server14:23
SpeedEvilmgedmin: 'he complete Xbox source code has leaked, including the kernel and libraries source.' diddn't know that -f un14:24
aquatixSpeedEvil: link?14:24
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SpeedEvilmgedmin's link of a few mins ago14:25
SpeedEvilthis is however the classic xbox14:25
aquatixah right14:25
Stskeepsstill, interesting :P14:25
aquatixoh, that article14:25
mgedminnobody cares about 16-bit DOS :-)14:25
* aquatix knew that one already :)14:26
mgedminoops, wrong channel14:26
aquatixgood stuff though14:26
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aquatixmgedmin: true though ;)14:26
SpeedEvilWrong channel?14:26
SpeedEvilOh - you mean you're not coding a n900 xbox emulator? :(14:26
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lbt_has anyone used gnokii on the N900?14:27
lbt_or any other sync for contact info to alinux desktop?14:27
wazdWee! I've found a charger for my Jabra BT500!14:27
wazdSexiest handsfree ever :)14:28
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aquatixjabra is nice; i'm happy with my BT501014:29
* SpeedEvil remembers the bluetooth 'device' - that may be sexier.14:30
SpeedEvil - not worksafe.14:30
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aquatixSpeedEvil: then why do you post it now :(14:31
* aquatix is tempted14:32
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hrwSpeedEvil: ;DDD14:37
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aquatixhey, i've had that cellphone14:40
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timeless_mbphrw: odd, 2899 is "fixed" but w/o an internal bug reference or a changeset/debian package id14:46
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timeless_mbpoh hrm14:47
timeless_mbpok, let's install ukeyboard and see what happens14:47
hrwtimeless_mbp: it is "LETSGETRIDOFTHEBUG" resolution not "FIXED"14:47
LynoureI could not figure out ukeyboard...14:47
LynoureLike how to change the layouts.14:47
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hrwLynoure: it is in docs and on ukeyboard website14:48
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Lynourehrw: even after browsing
hrwLynoure: to select other layout: simple run control panel and select layout to have other. to change layout (or add new) you need to learn XKB14:52
Lynourehrw: Already learned xkb some years back. :)14:53
hrwso change /usr/share/xkb/ukeyboard file or sth like that14:53
Lynourehrw: I'm hoping to change the symbols on-screen kb only...14:54
hrwLynoure: onscreen keyboard is other package14:55
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Lynourehrw: Do you happen to remember the name?14:56
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hrwnormally I would say 'matchbox-keyboard' but on hildon it has other name iirc14:59
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* CoreFusion- is back15:09
timeless_mbpmy control panel now says Text Input (ukeyboard)15:09
InformatiQis neils X-Fade here?15:09
timeless_mbpsupposedly he went on vacation15:09
timeless_mbpwhich is a crime against the community15:09
Stskeepsafter being without one for quite a while, i don't blame him :P15:10
timeless_mbpso, ukeyboard seems to "work"15:11
timeless_mbpin that it does *something* to my control panel app15:12
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timeless_mbpi'm not sure what yet15:12
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andre__feri, at least here you send emails from the future (one hour ahead) :-)15:14
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AndrewFBlackwish I could tell which apps were going to install to /opt and which didn't15:14
feriandre__: really? hmm. have to check it, my clock show the right value though. sorry about it.15:14
timeless_mbpAndrewFBlack: easy enough to do...15:15
timeless_mbpapt-get install --download-only15:15
andre__feri, "Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:45:28 +0100" in the message source here15:15
timeless_mbpdpkg-dev ...15:15
AndrewFBlacktimeless_mbp, k15:16
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feriandre__: yeah, i need to adjust my clock and come back from the future, thanks for noticing it ;)15:21
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lardman|homeso does flashing the eMMC wipe the whole thing this time round?15:27
ccookelardman|home: yes15:28
mgedminthank you for asking and answering the question of great interest to me15:29
mgedminwriting data to eMMC is very very slow15:29
mgedminalthough maybe that's because I did it over sshfs over wifi...15:30
ccookemgedmin: took about 2-3 minutes15:30
mgedminI'm just thinking: I transferred 8 gigs of multimedia into my mmc15:30
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mgedminI'm not too keen on repeating that15:30
lardman|homeccooke: thanks15:30
mgedminso I think I'll pass on the eMMC flash15:30
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mgedminit doesn't seem to contain anything interesting anyway15:30
lardman|homealso means you lose ~/MyDocs15:31
lardman|homeif you flash15:31
lardman|homeI think....15:31
lardman|homeor is that the other mount?15:31
mgedmindo you lose /home too?15:31
mgedminthere are three partitions on eMMC: /home, /home/MyDocs, swap15:31
ccookeyou lose all of them15:31
mgedminext3, vfat, swap15:31
mgedminthe eMMC image is interesting15:32
mgedminif you flasher-3.5 -u it, you get a raw VFAT image15:32
mgedminthat weighs ~250 megs, but if you mount -o loop, you see it as a 4 gb filesystem15:32
mgedminthe partition itself is 27 gb15:32
mgedminI'm not sure how this all works -- 250 meg image? 4gb loop? 27gb partition?15:32
timeless_mbpre ukeyboard15:32
mgedminis the flasher resizing the fs?15:32
timeless_mbpi still don't quite understand what it does15:32
ccookemgedmin: the image contains a lot of empty space.15:33
timeless_mbpbut i think it's safe to say that "no, this was not at all fixed by Nokia, and is still totally broken"15:33
* lardman|home crosses fingers and hopes he's backed everything up15:33
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ccooketimeless_mbp: what's broken?15:33
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timeless_mbpccooke: the fact that ukeyboard has to actually replace the text input control panel15:34
mgedminccooke, but it's not a sparse file, ls -l shows the size of the image being 246950912 bytes15:34
timeless_mbpmeans that maemo doesn't actually support what it wants to do15:34
timeless_mbpi'm actually fairly impressed by what it manages to do15:35
timeless_mbpit's pretty cool15:35
timeless_mbpnot perfect, but pretty cool15:35
* mgedmin still hasn't figured out how to use ukeyboard15:35
ccookemgedmin: filesystem header says it's a 4g fs, there's only data for the first 250M, it gets dumped onto part of a 27Gb FS?15:35
mgedminwould be nice if it shipped with a sample layout, and loaded that one by default on startup15:35
timeless_mbpmgedmin: open the control panel15:35
timeless_mbpopen text input15:35
hrwmgedmin: by default it uses maemo ones + own ones15:35
timeless_mbpthe title will say {localized "Text Input"} (ukeyboard)15:36
mgedmintimeless_mbp, sorry, I meant the ukeyboard creator, not ukeyboard itself15:36
timeless_mbpthe menus inside the control panel have extra content15:36
timeless_mbpmgedmin: presumably you can apt-get source the ukeyboard package for the sources to their layouts, no? :)15:37
lardman|homeso the legacy update is to be flashed instead of the one we can download?15:37
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alteregoIt has a built in FM transmitter?15:39
alteregoThe N900? What about reciever?15:39
lardman|homeyes to both15:39
alteregoShame it doesn't have HDMI out:)15:40
tekojolardman|home you have an "older" device?15:40
lardman|hometekojo: yes15:41
tekojothen you go legacy15:41
lardman|hometekojo: from what I read, I was thinking just the x-loader needed to be flashed, but yeah, I've just flashed the whole thing15:41
* lardman|home didn't have much time to read the mails this week15:41
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alteregoAre there hardware differences between the regional models? (not including the keypad)15:42
lardman|homealterego: no, regional stuff is done in sw15:43
alteregoAh, cool.15:43
tekojoalterego no, the keyboard should be it15:43
alteregoSo, in theory I could by a US model and use it in the UK15:43
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alteregoI just need to reflash it?15:43
Stskeepsmight be some regulatory stuff15:44
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lardman|homeStskeeps: I thought that was done in the sw/firmware15:44
alteregoThat's what I was thinking,15:44
Stskeepslardman|home: if flasher updates the CAL area for it, maybe..15:45
* Stskeeps doesn't actually know 15:45
alteregoWould the CAL area be where provider locks are stored? Because I doubt it in that case ;)15:45
lardman|homeyeah, good point15:45
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* lardman|home wonders if there are really any problems with restoring settings.....15:47
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lardman|homereinstalling apps for the first time in a long time, I once again curse HAM for not allowing multiple selections, or bg installs15:55
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tigertrootsh and apt-get :)15:57
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lardman|hometigert: yeah, but if I want to go down the list and install stuff, a ui is useful15:58
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alteregolardman|home: you could have backed-up a list of installed applications, then supplied that to apt-get ;)15:59
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lardman|homeI know, but I was told to do a fresh install ;)16:00
alteregoYou could even create your own debian meta-package16:00
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alteregolardman-0.1.deb :P16:00
lardman|homeyeah, not very useful for an end user mind you :D16:00
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alteregoWell, it just has to be an empty project that depends on all the stuff you want ;)16:00
lardman|homeI know that, but again, not a very useful thing for an end user16:01
* lardman|home also curses the way the list forgets its position, have to install stuff from Z to A not vice versa to reduce scrolling16:02
Lynoureand how one can only select one at the time for install16:03
alteregoIT used to remember position, have they removed that in maemo5 too? ^.^16:03
Lynourethe combination is major suckness.16:03
lardman|homealterego: yep16:03
alteregobug report?16:03
lardman|homealterego: yeah I put one in, I'll look for the #16:03
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KhertanHi ...16:04
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lardman|homehmm, can't seem to find it....16:04
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Khertandoes someone know why every one and the wiki is saying that maemo summit preproduction device emmc need to be flashed ?16:05
KhertanN900 users don't need to reflash the eMMC of their device. If you are reading this it's probably because you got a pre-production device e.g. in the Maemo Summit. If you have a sales unit and you have problems with your eMMC you should contact Nokia Care.16:05
StskeepsKhertan: because it should? :P16:06
Khertannot really ...16:06
ccookeKhertan: because they changed the eMMC between prerelease and release16:06
Khertanthey change ? the content ?16:06
ShapeshifterI'm wondering about the latest rumour of nokia shipping n900 by boat from korea. doesn't hardware like this always get shipped by boat to the major continents? >.>16:06
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Stskeepsjust imagine the horror if the ship sank..16:07
glass_somalian pirates16:07
ccookeKhertan: They changed some low-level stuff that can't be fixed in a seamless update.16:07
Stskeepswith 900s16:07
KhertanStskeeps: it was already the case for apple and ipod :16:07
RST38hGod moving to high seas!16:07
Khertanccooke: oh really ?16:08
ccookeKhertan: It's only the pre-release devices that need the update16:08
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Khertanccooke: should i do it ? i've flashed the firmware but not the emmc16:08
ccookeI'm not sure what the changes are, but I can think of a few things it *might* be16:08
tbfKhertan: Stskeeps: nokia simply suggests replacing the eMMC because nobody tested of keeping it works16:08
ccookefor instance, if they changed the partition sizes a little16:08
Khertantbf: ah ok ...16:09
Khertantbf: thx ...16:09
Khertanso i should do it ...16:09
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Khertanjust in case16:09
tbfKhertan: yes, would be better.16:10
tbfKhertan: if you flashed it and get trouble, you know for sure that nokia is to blame16:10
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Khertantbf: i ve already flashed it ... and didn't got any problem16:10
Khertanby flashed i mean the firmware not the emmc16:11
lardman|home needs to be reopened for Maemo 516:11
povbotBug 1148: After successfull installation, app-manager selects the very first installable package16:11
ccookeKhertan: What if you have a problem in the future?16:11
Khertanccooke: so i ll blame myself16:11
ccookethat's fair :-)16:12
Khertanas i didn't follow recommandation16:12
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ccooke*ages* ago, there was a page on the wiki tracking the bugs that would be fixed in fremantle16:13
ccooke(I'm talking late last year sometime, I think - probably not early this)16:13
ccookeCan't find the damn thing now, though16:13
* ccooke is trying to double-check some stuff16:14
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dnearyGAN900, Ping?16:15
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lbt_I noticed the eMMC image had an older version than the other image...  why's that?16:23
lardman|homejust depends on which week it was made16:23
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Jaffalbt_: eMMC changes less frequently than the s/w16:24
lbt_so version is more like "best before" date than "ingredients".... hmm16:24
Khertanouch ... my python script is really long to backup my n900 compare to my n81016:24
Khertan32Go VS 2Go16:25
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lbt_Jaffa: doesn't the eMMC contain the s/w ?16:25
lbt_or do I need to do both ?16:25
lardman|homelbt_: maps16:25
lardman|homesw is in the main flash image16:25
* lbt_ thought the eMMC was a complete 'disk' image including repartitioning16:25
Khertanif i understand flashing is done in two times16:25
Khertanso i don't think16:26
lbt_Khertan: ah16:26
lbt_that is *not* clear16:26
Khertanyep clearly not16:26
Khertanbut i ll be able to confirm you in 30 minutes16:26
Khertan(eta of my backup script)16:26
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lardman|homeis HAM developed in git?16:28
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Khertannoone have yet compile a git version useable on n900 and ?16:30
lardman|homeof HAM?16:30
lbt_So "Having flashed the eMMC you should now flash your device."16:30
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RST38hAFAIK you do not need to flash eMMC16:30
RST38hnot this one anyway16:30
* lbt_ is conflicted16:31
lbt_quim said"16:32
lbt_but it's very16:33
lbt_important for those that got a pre-production device since they will16:33
lbt_need to reflash the eMMC in order to get the N900 as it comes out of the16:33
lbt_sales box.16:33
lbt_is pre-production != summit16:33
lbt_so pre-production == fremantle stars16:33
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wazdlbt_: wrong)16:35
ShadowJKI suspect that it's pre-optification16:36
lopzhey :p16:36
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RST38hlbt: Well, last fremantle stars eMMC already had /opt and I was told at the summit that I did not need to flash new eMMC16:38
RST38hlbt: The new eMMC image is the same time as the summit (41.10)16:38
HKisd_wrkhi, I updated the firmware to N900, but now extras-devel won't work, complains that there is no hash entry in Release file. does anyone know how to get it to work?16:39
Stskeepsjeremiah_: ^16:39
* Shapeshifter is a bit bored with waiting.16:39
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lbt_RST38h: yes, that's what I noticed16:40
Shapeshifterit would be soo interesting to see the position of "your" future device on a map, with GPS ;) That would be wicked.16:40
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lbt_so we should reflash eMMC to the same as it is and then flash new fiasco image?16:40
Shapeshifteryou could watch it for ours, strolling over the indian ocean or the pacific16:41
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GeneralAntillesdneary, pong?16:41
dnearyGeneralAntilles, So - are you able to come to Barcelona?16:41
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dnearyGeneralAntilles, You're part of a select group who have actually done stuff to make Maemo docs better :)16:42
dnearyIt'd be great to have you there, if you could make it16:42
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GeneralAntillesNot really, and I don't think sponsorship is actually available for non-EU people.16:42
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waz1Hi. I love to call my friends and send sms's with my new nokia n900. Also I can check the time just by simply looking at the screen. And if I need to wake up early - I can just set the alarm! I'm Andrew and tthis is MaeVoice.16:48
crashanddie_guys, where can I download the NSU?16:49
aSIMULAtersounds unique16:49
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Stskeepswaz1: to some freerunner users that would be their reason for buying a n900.16:50
waz1aSIMULAter: that was the goal  :)16:50
waz1Stskeeps: sheesh  :D16:50
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waz1Ohoh! I  can interact with  the phone by touching the screen itself16:51
* Shapeshifter needs to grow a fingernail16:52
waz1Take that, iphone!16:52
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RST38hwazd: Google says Andrew is dead.16:52
RST38hKilled in Iraq.16:52
RST38hPoor fiferboy, we'll miss you!16:53
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lardmanhmm, /me wonders if 30min is the median level of wasted time expended installing applications using HAM after a clean install.....16:55
waz1RST38h: whhat?!16:56
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waz1RST38h: what?!!16:57
RST38hwazd: do a google search for Andrew Olmsted16:57
RST38hyou will see16:57
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Stskeepsin 2008 :P16:58
waz1That's not fun!17:00
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waz1RST38h: damn you)17:01
* RST38h moos woefully17:02
VDVsxbtw, Maemo-Barcelona long weekend participants list is now live:  (hurry up :P)17:02
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waz1RST38h: seriously, dude! :D17:03
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* VDVsx thinks waz1 drank to much vodka at lunch :P 17:05
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waz1VDVsx: what?) Now *I* am drunk?)17:06
crashanddie_I need the NSU, can anyone send it to me?17:07
crashanddie_I need to update my N900 for the meeting tonight17:07
VDVsxcrashanddie, just install nokia pc suite17:07
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VDVsxor use the flasher17:07
VDVsxwaz1, ;)17:07
waz1crashanddie: girs get hot when they see fresh n900 :D17:07
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zackyI see that everyone is talking about this N900 meeting tonight, but what/where is that? is it the barcelona long weekend thing?17:08
crashanddie_zacky: no, it's in London17:08
Stskeepslondon i think17:08
zackyanyone got an info url?17:09
crashanddie_not really17:09
crashanddie_I was asked to join by email17:09
zackyok, so what is it?17:09
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Moolenaaranyone who come from Japan17:10
waz1Who in the world decided  to makee meetings on tuesday? Seriously :)17:10
vesamobile monday, n900 tuesday!17:10
vesaor maemo tuesday even17:10
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waz1Maeuesday, let's follow community trend :)17:11
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VDVsxwaz1, did you got a seat for the Moscow meetup ? all booked now17:13
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waz1VDVsx: yep17:13
VDVsxit's also on a Tuesday, lolol17:13
zackyah, thanks VDVsx.17:13
waz1VDVsx: don't need a passport for that :D17:14
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VDVsxwaz1, ehehe, you never know :P17:14
waz1VDVsx: mheheh17:14
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* waz1 coughs17:15
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Moolenaarhow about N920?17:18
crashanddie_stupid nokia, they don't have the NSU on their website yet17:18
crashanddie_even though they reference the N90017:18
MyrttiMoolenaar: what about it?17:18
Moolenaarnew device. made by nokia17:19
MyrttiMoolenaar: URL or it didn't happen?17:20
MyrttiMoolenaar: u fail17:21
Khertanoups ... does there is a control of device number before flashing ?17:21
Khertanas my n810 and my n900 are connected to the pc with usb17:22
Khertani don't know which device was found17:22
Ronaldo38741An N810 with Maemo 5, woo17:22
Khertana breaked n81017:22
Ronaldo38741Or a bricked N810.. less woo17:22
rzrlol @
MyrttiMoolenaar: did you read the link I gave you?17:24
Khertanok the n900 reboot17:24
Khertanso it found the right device17:24
* Flandry is back with another random hardware/software question17:24
MyrttiMoolenaar: "It all started with Exitus , trying to make a concept touch screen phone and he started with a template ( much like iPhone 3GS ) added the screenshot of Maemo 4 yes MAEMO 4 from Nokia N810 not the latest upcoming MAEMO 6 Harmattan and tweeted it and the whole world was after it ."17:24
Myrttimaemo 4. not even maemo 5. maemo 4. or even older.17:24
Khertanouch ... n900 rebooting loop17:25
Moolenaaryes. maybe you are right17:25
KhertanMoolenaar: not maybe ... sure17:25
MyrttiKhertan: you're mixing things up17:26
SpeedEvilI, for one, welcome our new Maemo 4 overlords.17:26
Myrttioh, nevermind17:26
MyrttiI fail this time17:26
* Myrtti goes to get more coffee17:26
KhertanMyrtti: you are mixing people :)17:26
SpeedEvilI wonder how much effort it would be to go from mer to a usable phone platform - for 'Nokla'.17:27
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, that's Bora, actually.17:27
StskeepsSpeedEvil: depending on ofono and telepathy-ofono quality17:28
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FlandryGiven that an app will not be taking advantage of 3D rendering (just compositing), what would be the most eficient way to draw to the display in SDL?17:28
Flandry*N900 display17:28
Moolenaarofono? inter and nokia17:28
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StskeepsSpeedEvil: and if they can get proper GLES drivers17:31
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AndrewFBlackany changed there useragent on n900 to view iphone pages automaticlly17:37
Khertannope to view iphone mini page17:37
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Khertanbut i change it to bypass sfr proxy limitation17:37
Khertanbut for any reason the useragent is reset as each microb reboot17:37
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Khertanand microb doesn't seems to use the users.js17:38
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GAN900Is 42-11 significantly slower than 41-10 for people?17:45
GAN900I can't even get it to stream videos without buffering every 3 seconds.17:46
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Stskeepson the contrary17:46
GAN900I wonder what's broken here.17:48
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GAN900That's cool, too.17:49
sgbirchis maemo4 dead now or can we expect more releases?17:50
Stskeepssigns that N900 has gotten something right: a apple freak from my former uni who's waiting for his N90017:50
Stskeepssgbirch: there's a community SSU effort17:51
sgbirchSSU ?17:51
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Stskeepsseamless software update17:51
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sp3000jeremiah: ping? extras-devel needs a reindex or whatever, no hash in packages or no packages in hash or whatever ...the usual :)17:53
sgbirchStskeeps: got it.. thx17:54
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smackpotatoim having trouble mounting a ramdrive18:01
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crashanddie_GAN900: your interwebs18:03
crashanddie_GAN900: stop microwaving those nachos18:03
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crashanddie_GAN900: maybe you can help me, tell me where I can get NSU18:03
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alteregoThe Nseries site crashanddie_18:04
Stskeeps is happening right now if anyone is interested18:05
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crashanddie_alterego: where then?18:05
alteregoOh, I must remember to download the, facebook, twitter thin g on xbox tonight.18:06
alteregoIt's part of PC suite18:07
sgbirchIt looks like the n900 is generating a ton more interest than the n810.  Hopefully the maemo community will expand as a result18:07
Stskeepsit has, some claim to the worse; )18:07
sgbirchStskeeps: the unwashed masses!18:08
sgbirchStskeeps: My only observation is that the number of upgrades pushed out seems to be quite low18:08
Stskeepsfor n810 yeah18:09
mgedminsmackpotato, that's not how you mount tmpfs18:09
sgbirchStskeeps: at the application level, I mean.  Compared to (say) debian or ubuntu.18:09
mgedminsmackpotato, if you really want a fixed-size ramdisk, mount -t ext2 /dev/ram118:09
mgedminsmackpotato, if you want tmpfs, you don't need to muck with /dev/ramX at all18:09
wazdfinally at home18:10
suihkulokkiThe eternal september of maemo =)18:10
sgbirchStskeeps: My worry is that the real appeal of the n900 is the *potential*.18:10
mgedminsmackpotato, the difference is that tmpfs grows and shrinks automatically depending on content; ramdisk is fixed size18:10
mgedminnobody uses ramdisks anymore really18:10
hrwmgedmin: no one on ARM18:11
hrwmgedmin: I use initrd on my laptop18:11
mgedminhrw, /dev/ramX is not the same thing as initrd/initramfs18:11
sgbirchStskeeps: It sure is a nice device, and fantastic work has been done. But the potential is absolutely incredible.18:12
crashanddie_lardman, Jaffa: You guys going to talk about something specific?18:12
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sgbirchcrashanddie_: how about this ... is there a definitive answer on turn-by-turn navigation, will it have it?18:13
lardmancrashanddie_: talk?18:14
cosmodoes autobuilder update its debs from extras or extras-dev (fremantle?)18:14
crashanddie_sgbirch: and you are asking me because?18:14
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sgbirchcrashanddie_: you are as good as anyone18:15
cosmouploading to extras wiki page says "After the autobuilder builds a package, it will be available in Extras-Devel. " but afaik there is some delay before it's available for autobuilder18:15
crashanddie_sgbirch: actually, I'm better than most, but still, I don't see why the question was directed toward me18:15
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alteregocosmo, there's a queue for the auto-builder,.18:15
Flandryi think it must use packages from extras-dev if they are available18:16
cosmoalterego: you mean before or after it? my package went already through autobuilder ok18:16
alteregoThen it should be in extras-devel now.18:16
Flandrysorry, are you talking about build dependencies?18:16
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crashanddie_GAN900: thanks, got the flasher?18:17
sgbirchcrashanddie_:I was just responding to the comment about those guys talking about something specific.18:17
crashanddie_sgbirch: ah, I see18:17
sgbirchcrashanddie_: It was half a joke .. but the question is a good one18:17
pupniki am getting good battery life on n900 with surfing and mÃedia playbck18:17
lardmancrashanddie_: what are you talking about talking about something?18:17
GAN900sgbirch, Sygic announced a port.18:18
crashanddie_lardman: tonight? You're not going to give a little speech?18:18
sgbirchcrashanddie_: I guess it was ok as an add in, but it looks like google will add it18:18
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lardmanto my wife....?18:18
crashanddie_lardman: you not at the meetup tonight?18:18
GAN900crashanddie_, not that he knows of, it seems. ;)18:18
lardmanwhat meetup?18:18
crashanddie_lardman: you willy wanker18:18
* GAN900 throws a cluebat at lardman.18:19
crashanddie_lardman: there's a meetup tonight in London18:19
lardmanah, news to me18:19
wjtso. who *is* going?18:19
crashanddie_lardman: people have been talking about it for weeks?18:19
crashanddie_lardman: get the feck out of your cave, batman18:19
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cosmothe autobuilder is really slow, or i'm missing some mails.. pretty confusing18:19
sgbirchcrashanddie_: I didnt get an invite ... is it too late?18:19
lardmancrashanddie_: I've not been paying much attention to irc in case you'd not noticed, been ill, then painting my flat18:19
MyrttiI wish I was18:19
GAN900alterego, it mostly just manages to clutter things up.18:19
MyrttiI wish I was going to Barcelona too18:19
crashanddie_lardman: if it was the other way around, I would've said the paint made you ill18:19
KhertanDoes there is something about key shortcut in the maemo hildon guidelines ?18:20
sgbirchcrashanddie_: I called the London store and they knew nothing about ut18:20
cosmoi got the package through diablo builder but for fremantle i still haven't got reply mail although i submitted the package at the same time18:20
Flandrywhy does he need to get out of his cave? He just uses everyone's N900s for echolocation...18:20
crashanddie_lardman: what happened?18:20
crashanddie_lardman: were you that sick you had to paint the flat?18:20
lardmannah, not feeling too hot for a week, then busy at work, then moving stuff out of flat to allow painting, then doing the painting18:20
crashanddie_sgbirch: there was a website, you had to subscribe18:20
sgbirchcrashanddie_: was it taken down?18:21
crashanddie_lardman: because it really sounded like you were sick all over the walls for a second there :P18:21
crashanddie_sgbirch: only 80 seats or something18:21
lardmanno no! :D18:21
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GAN900Mr. Creosote?18:22
sgbirchcrashanddie_: They think they only have 80 fans!!!18:22
crashanddie_sgbirch: no, they only *want* 80 people, there will be drinks or something18:22
crashanddie_sgbirch: they've done the same in Helsinki, Moscow, etc18:23
lardmannever mind, school night anyway, so probably wouldn't have been able to make it, tho my wife is in London tomorrow iirc18:23
crashanddie_sgbirch: tbh, I'm just going because I've been asked to go, and I'll probably return my N900 at the same time18:23
sgbirchcrashanddie_:why are you returning it?18:23
Myrttiohai sgbirch18:24
crashanddie_well, moving to Oz and all, it's not like it'll be easy to return it later on18:24
lardmanyou're moving?18:24
lardmanagain, news to me18:24
crashanddie_lardman: yeah18:24
lardmanwhere to?18:24
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crashanddie_lardman: news to nearly everyone, going to Brisbane18:24
sgbirchcrashanddie_:oh .. cool18:24
crashanddie_fag break, see ya in a bit18:24
lardmancrashanddie_: cool, or rather, warm :)18:24
Flandryintercontinental slang collisions are an endless source of amusement18:25
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crashanddie_Flandry: no, you just need to start learning real English a bit more or speak with more foreigners18:26
crashanddie_lardman: PM18:26
GAN900What, he's not taking a break to ride his Harley?18:26
Flandryyeah, his "Harley"18:26
GAN900 /South Park18:27
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Flandrycrashanddie: I used to say that everything i need to know in life, i learned from the English translation of Tintin. Wait for it...18:27
cosmoalterego: yep, at least on diablo builder the package that went through is not available for autobuilder yet18:28
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cosmo..and same for fremantle18:29
Flandrynever learned proper usage of those colloquialisms though :D18:29
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Jaffacrashanddie_: I'm probably going to aim to get to the hotel about 18:30ish, got a room so going to change (and can stay out on the lash ;-))18:48
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crashanddie_Jaffa: haha, awesome18:51
crashanddie_so we have a room to trash18:51
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CoreFusion-I heard rumours that the finnish Nokia Shop would start shipping this friday19:03
sgbirchI called the London shop and they didnt have a clue19:04
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sgbirchThey also didnt know about the meeting tonight19:05
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CoreFusion-gj from them then :)19:05
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lbt_Jaffa: re ohmd19:05
crashanddie_that's because really, Maemo is a cover story for the Renegade Freemasons Alliance19:05
Flyserwhich meeting?19:05
lbt_IIRC it was designed as a very low level policy manger19:06
SpeedEvilTo quote 'This order has not shipped.'19:06
lbt_nothing important.... just thermal throttling the CPU19:06
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lbt_can't see any problems using stop ohmd.... <-- sarcasm ;)19:06
crashanddie_we're an obscure society membered of doctors, various PhDs and freethinkers, we want to impose our opinion and challenge status quo19:07
lbt_Nb Nokia may not be using it for this purpose19:07
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kirmanokia shop says that they start N900 preorder deliveries in Finland on friday, some potentially getting it already then... and preorders should be delivered everywhere in the country in a week19:09
kirmaI'm almost certain I'll miss my delivery if they refuse to change the shipping address to work...19:10
CoreFusion-Nokia is trying to get pre-orders delivered during next week. (at least in Finland)19:11
kirmashipping practically between 9am and 5pm, of course.19:11
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CoreFusion-kirma, i'm sure it's possible to change the shipping adress but they might make you pay extra for that :P19:15
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Xisdibikcrashanddie: you had me all excited until i realized you were joking :(19:19
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* tga is looking for a way to schedule a job to run at certain times19:22
yuizyuse libalarm19:23
tgaany client for that?19:23
ShadowJKkirma, iirc my SmartQ7 came with UPS too, and the UPS guy had left it outside my kitchen19:23
ShadowJK(I was sound asleep having worked nights that week)19:24
* ShadowJK lives in the countryside and doesn't lock his door..19:24
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kirmaconsidering I live in apartment building with exterior door locked, I'd say it's rather unlikely it'd be left there...19:24
tgayuizy: I've been trying to figure out how to use alarmd but I can't find any straightforward documentation19:24
yuizyi'm not sure19:24
yuizyyou want to run a single command?19:25
* Xisdibik goes over to ShadowJK's for breakfast19:25
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ShadowJKmake enough for two19:25
tgayuizy: yeah, mostly morning alarm stuff for now19:25
kirmaI constantly get surprised that I order stuff to my home address with express shipping when I really should make orders to work19:26
XisdibikShadowJK: only if you like Swedish Pancakes19:26
Xisdibikmorning GeneralAntilles19:26
Xisdibikwell i guess afternoon for you now19:26
* tga was impressed by a H2 today19:26
tganow if only I can get maemo on that hardware for a decent price19:27
* GeneralAntilles mutters evil things about kernel panics.19:27
yuizytga: i used these examples
GeneralAntillestga, Maemo comes on the N900.19:27
wazdHi. With brand new n900 I can add numbers of my friends to the address book and each time they will call me - I will see name instead of number. And it has color screen too! I'm Andrew, and this is MaeVoice.19:27
GeneralAntillesYou're not going to get "Maemo" on much else.19:28
tgaI know, a bit out of my budget range atm19:28
GeneralAntillestga, give it 6 months.19:28
tgawell, Mer, whatever19:28
GeneralAntilleswazd, why are you making fun of MaeVoice?19:28
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tgayuizy: thanks, wtf @ C programming though19:28
tgaI just need a crontab, not an API19:29
GeneralAntillescron isn't battery friendly19:29
tganotice I said crontab, not cron :)19:29
wazdGeneralAntilles: because I can :D19:29
tgafor what I need, I wouldn't even mind starting cron when I plug in19:29
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wazdGeneralAntilles: Ah, i'm not making fun of it in fact, that's a nice move if used wisely19:30
GeneralAntillesGotta love it when ClearType screws up screenshotted tables:
wazdGeneralAntilles: I was just amused by Tim's part when he says that it's amazing how music over a2dp stops when somebody calls :)19:31
* GeneralAntilles stabs subpixel to death.19:32
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Jaffalbt_: Yeah, Eero's just said that. Seems to be conflating various tasks into random "let's shove something in to make it better"19:36
crashanddie_wazd: that's the "Awesome camera" effect19:36
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Jaffatga: GeneralAntilles: Looking at a typical cron implementation, there's no reason why it'd be battery unfriendly. Doesn't give you the "switch the device on, if off, when this alarm goes off"19:37
wazdcrashanddie: I knew that! :D19:37
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tgaJaffa: regular cron doesn't give you that option either, it's alright19:38
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wazdSeriously, n900 gives such an endless possibilities and people are stuck to the color screen and phonebook19:38
CoreFusion- wazd: well what would be the über idea then?19:39
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wazdCoreFusion-: I can download latest "Lie to me" episode and watch it right onthe device while lazing on the beach19:40
wazdCoreFusion-: that's the power! :D19:40
fralsah, should watch that today19:40
tgaI'll go for enhanced reality19:40
fralsthanks for reminding me! :D19:40
greenflyfor me it's the fact that I can respond to a production emergency at work without having to lug around my laptop19:40
wazdfrals: yw :)19:40
SpeedEvilEnhanced reality.19:40
tgaseems to be the thing nowadays19:40
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SpeedEvilGot any people in your phonebook with annoyingly squeaky voices?19:40
SpeedEvilPitch-shift them automatically.19:41
tgathat would actually be easy19:41
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wazdI can connect to my laptop at work and trick my boss while hanging out with my GF19:41
Xisdibikits all fun and games SpeedEvil until your mom finds out you made her sound like a truck driver dude19:41
* crashanddie_ would like to announce what his company is working on tonight19:41
SpeedEvilXisdibik: :)19:41
crashanddie_but would get sacked before the night is over19:41
GeneralAntillesAh, finally fixed font rendering in Snow Leopard.19:42
GeneralAntillesStupid Apple.19:42
tgasecrecy is overrated19:42
Xisdibikcongratz GeneralAntilles19:42
derfEmployment, however, is not.19:42
wazdGeneralAntilles: lol, Jobs claimed that he's a god of the Fonts19:42
tgawell actually..19:42
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wazdand god of everything shown on the screen eventually :)19:43
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GeneralAntilleswazd, Windows font rendering makes my eyes bleed.19:43
GeneralAntillesIt's a configuration issue with 3rd-party LCDs.19:44
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* RST38h claims the same about Linux font rendering19:44
RST38hWindows is actually ok, well, for some fonts :)19:44
GeneralAntillesRST38h, configurable, depends on your configuration.19:44
GeneralAntillesI can make Linux look like Windows or OS X.19:44
tgafrom afar maybe19:45
derfLinux font rendering at least has an excuse: a number of the techniques are patented.19:45
GeneralAntillesClose enough to OS X that my eyes aren't bleeding, anyway.19:45
pupnikhow many apps do you end up running on n900? for me usually 6-12 windows19:45
wazdGeneralAntilles: haha, you're too used to that OSX soap render :)19:45
derfThough I think a few of the important ones just expired or are expiring soon.19:45
derfSo that excuse will soon be gone.19:46
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GeneralAntilleswazd, I'm used to on-screen text looking closer to print.19:46
GeneralAntillesI can hardly focus on ClearType.19:46
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wazdGeneralAntilles: I really hate that OSX soapy render, Better stick with sharp win fonts19:48
smackpotatanyone have any tips on mounting a ramdrive19:48
greenflysmackpotat: what are you trying to do?19:48
smackpotati always get failed19:48
GeneralAntilleswazd, ew.19:48
* mgedmin looooves linux subpixel font rendering19:48
woglindesmackpotat read kernel doc about ramdisk19:48
greenflysmackpotat: I mean, what are you trying to accomplish with a ramdisk?19:48
mgedminand now let's discuss which vegetables are best19:49
mgedmindeath to tomatoes!19:49
woglindetomatoes are fine19:49
smackpotati  want to put .mozilla/microb in ram19:49
woglindethere are serval different sorts19:49
GeneralAntilleswazd, "sharp", i.e., "let's kill the character shapes"19:49
woglindein color too19:49
greenflysmackpotat: why?19:49
woglindefrom green to violet19:49
wazdGeneralAntilles: yep, let's kill, if it's easier to read :)19:50
smackpotatjust an experment see if i can get any extra speed19:50
greenflyyou won't19:50
greenflybecause Linux already does it for you19:50
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GeneralAntilleswazd, it's what you're used to.19:50
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wazdGeneralAntilles: glad you've got the point :)19:50
greenflysmackpotat: every time you read a file, Linux copies it to RAM and if it has enough RAM, tries to keep it there19:50
smackpotatwhy not greenfly19:50
GeneralAntilleswazd, but that still doesn't change the fact that Windows' rendering is incorrect. ;)19:50
greenflyso the first time you load the files in that directory, it will already be in RAM and unless you max out your RAM, it should stay there19:51
greenflyso basically, Linux will handle the ramdisk more efficiently than you will be able to19:51
wazdGeneralAntilles: every rendering is "incorrect"19:51
smackpotatthere are databases there that aRT CACHED19:51
greenflyand also will automatically make sure that changes are written to disk, etc.19:51
wazdGeneralAntilles: you can't make font look like printed one, not today19:51
aepsmackpotat: i do it with tmpfs. quite easy. not sure if that'll work on the default kernel19:51
wazdGeneralAntilles: maybe someday, yes, but not today19:51
greenflyagain, the Linux file cache is more efficient and better than you will be19:52
mgedminsome of today's devices are approaching 300 dpi19:52
tgadoes anyone happen to know a working cron?19:52
greenflyso no need to reinvent it with a clumsy ramdisk19:52
wazdGeneralAntilles: everything else doesn't really matters much19:52
mgedminI remember when laser printers were 300 dpi19:52
fwrnandoyou know what they say, fonts will only be perfectly rendered once we get hexagonal pixels19:52
tgaall I found were dead links19:52
smackpotatok as i said its just an experment more for my education than anything19:52
greenflysmackpotat: next time you are in front of a command line, type 'free'19:53
tgado you get a free application?19:53
greenflythe value under the "cached" column is how many kilobytes Linux is already caching in RAM19:53
greenflyover time the value under "free" column should get close to zero and it will appear that all your RAM is used19:53
greenflybut it isn't, when an app needs RAM, Linux just borrows from the file cache19:53
greenflyagain, more efficient use of your RAM without hard-coding, you know, 50Mb or whatever that nothing else can use if it needs it19:54
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aepgreenfly: i'm not sure if the maemo ff is still the default ff, but that one calls flush() after each write.19:54
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greenflyaep: how would that affect this?19:55
aepyou cant cache that19:55
greenflywe aren't talking about caching writes19:55
aepa ramdisk fixes it19:55
greenflybut caching reads19:55
aepyou were19:55
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aepooh. well who cares about reads...19:55
smackpotati set the cache to writeback and it speeded microb up plenty19:55
greenflythe file system drivers take care of caching writes anyway19:55
aepflush mans flush.  no caching19:55
greenflyaep: so it's more efficient to run an rsync every now and then to flush your ramdisk to disk?19:56
smackpotatthe problem is with microb's use of sqlight19:56
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aepgreenfly: if you have programs like ff that call flush() in a busy loop, yes19:56
aepnot sure if they fixed it, i went away from it after chromium was released19:57
greenfly*shrug* sounds like a lost of extra effort to me for little if any gain19:57
greenflylike all those ricers who overclock their gaming rigs19:57
aepits a huge gain on devices with small I/O19:57
aepits usable vs unusable19:57
aepi'm quite certain that bug isnt present on mameo though19:57
aepalot of people would have noticed19:58
greenflyI dunno, I'm not seeing any major issues on the n900 with that19:58
greenflybrowsing doesn't seem like it's lagging because it's waiting on IO19:58
smackpotatyes it is a lot of extra time i say "why kill yourself when you can kill time"19:58
greenflyat least, not disk IO :)19:58
aepsmackpotat: well go ahead try it,.. at least you'll learn how to fix it when it becomes an actual problem19:59
aep(not my setup, google returned that)19:59
greenflyin any case, I just bring it up because in my experience people who talk about setting up ramdisks on Linux are unaware of the systems already in place19:59
smackpotatasa re green says "if it at broke you arn't trying"20:00
aepoh well, you'll certainly will get nothing from read caches, thats true20:00
smackpotatthanks for the link20:00
lardmanis it sampo who wrote ecoach?20:00
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amaurymedeirosDoes anyone know how hildon-application-manager lists the Installable packages?20:04
andre__amaurymedeiros, technically? or sorting?20:04
amaurymedeirosandre__, technically20:04
lardmanit lists what is in the Packages file minus what's already installed20:04
smackpotatthis is what gos wrong when i try to mount a random ramdisk20:04
amaurymedeirosI found how it lists the installed packages..20:04
amaurymedeiroswith dpkg-query...20:05
lardmansmackpotat: does the mount point exist?20:05
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lardmansmackpotat: otherwise, I imagine mount is provided by busybox, so may be missing options20:06
smackpotatyes whit mkdir20:06
lardmansmackpotat: or, there's no tmpfs driver available...?20:06
smackpotati think there is but  i dont know what to do with it20:06
aepwhy the hell are you creating something on disk20:09
aepi thought you wanted a RAM disk20:09
smackpotati do20:10
mgedminsmackpotato, heh, the mountpoint you mkdir'ed is called 'ramdrive0', but the mountpoint you specified on your mount command line is called 'ramdisk0'20:10
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mgedminnevertheless I continue to say that ramdisks are a Bad Idea and that you want to mount -t tmpfs none /home/user/ramdrive020:10
mzzsmackpotat: notice tmpfs doesn't actually use /dev/ram* (the "device" argument to mount is ignored)20:10
mgedminwithout any of that silly dd/mkfs stuff20:10
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mzzsmackpotat: assuming tmpfs works at all, something like "mount -t tmpfs strawberries /mnt/point" will work20:11
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smackpotattx mgedmin20:11
mgedminno need to assume, /etc/init.d/rcS creates several tmpfs mounts20:11
mgedminon a n90020:11
mzzand yes, tmpfs usually works these days, if only because it's used for /dev/20:12
amaurymedeirosDoes the hildon app manager uses dpkg to list INSTALLABLE packages?20:13
mgedminhildon app manager's sources are out there20:14
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amaurymedeirosI've already downloaded the source and searched a lot, but I found only how it lists INSTALLED packages. Now I need to find how it works with INSTALLABLE ones.20:16
dmj726hi zaheerm20:16
zaheermdmj726, h, sorry in meeting20:16
dmj726What's up with zope.interface?20:16
dmj726all I want to know20:17
mgedmin"only_available" is what you want, I believe20:17
Flandryi thought app manager was one of the closed Nokia apps20:18
GeneralAntillesFlandry, it's been open source since 2005. :)20:18
Flandrymaybe the weirdly narrow text columns in the description can be fixed then20:18
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mgedminI want http://isitaclosednokiaapp.com20:18
GeneralAntillesFlandry, they'd welcome patches.20:18
Flandryk thx20:19
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pupnikmy ram is unstable20:21
amaurymedeirosThanks, mgedmin.. I will try this :]20:21
pupnikanyone built advmame yet? command-line ver?20:21
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Flandryno but i was looking into a mame port20:22
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Flandrythe maintainer of SDLMAME is going to target pandora, so it might be an easy port with GL ES support20:22
pupnikwoot woot woot20:23
jeremiah_sp3000: Thanks - I'll do that.20:23
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jeremiah_sp3000: Garage has been uber-flaky :(20:24
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Flandryi plan on working on it, anyway20:25
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RST38hFlandry: You want mame4all btw20:27
RST38hFlandry: It is kinda outdated and kinda limited, but it is your best bet as far as ARM-based portables are concerned20:28
Flandryperhaps that will be a better option, but if a specific pandora target shows up in current SDLMAME, it will be a pretty good option as well20:32
Flandryanyway i'm just starting to dig into it20:32
RST38hWell, the difference will be the choice of CPU emulators20:33
RST38hmame4all is known to use ARM-optimized CPU cores like Cyclone. Not sure about generic SDLMAME, even if it has Pandora target20:33
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VDVsxdoes anyone tried to use the new sbox installer ?20:35
pupniki will when my pc is stable20:35
pupniki would like a network activity monitor like load monitor applet.  ine bar up, one bar down.  scaled to max up/down bandwidth measured20:36
VDVsxnot working in my ubuntu 9.04, hangs when needs to download the packages :(20:37
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wazddamn, how can a user make 400 posts in 1 month? :D20:43
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wazdI've made 411 in like 2 years :)20:43
jeremiah_diahrrea of the keyboard?20:43
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RST38hthat is only 12 a day or so20:44
jeremiah_Yeah, 12 a day is low for talk20:44
RST38hif you do not read, only write, like a lot of people, it is quite possible20:44
jeremiah_I can't even read 12 a day20:44
RST38hjeremiah: as I said, reading is not an issue20:44
jeremiah_So true, so true.20:44
Flandryah "One of the big speed bumps in MAME history occured at 0.53 - when video went to 16-bit only. Before that MAME would use either an 8-bit or 16-bit.20:45
Flandry This is one good reason why handhelds tend to have versions of MAME before 0.53.20:45
Flandry ie. MAME4ALL uses 0.37b5 and previous to that used 0.34.20:45
wazdN900 shipping delayed (3,469) <- ah, never mind :D20:45
jeremiah_I CAN HAZ NEW google-chrom?20:45
jeremiah_I CAN!20:45
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RST38hFlandry: Mame4all still has 8bit support20:46
RST38hbut for maemo you do not really want 8bit20:47
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FlandryThe old OS2008 xmame port was version 0.5820:47
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wazdbut the increasing amount of stupidity and animosity I've witnessed here since November started is truly ludicrous...20:48
wazd| Joined on Sep 200920:48
wazdI'll better stay with IRC :D20:49
Flandrywazd: it's a plot by Google to undermine Maemo...20:49
dmj7262Yeah, there's a lot of effort put into crazy complaining and silly, pointless speculation.20:49
RST38hNo, just the Tentacled One breeding his dinner...20:50
CoreFusion-LOL: from t.m.o = My advice to would be buyers is hold off and get it cheaper from - that'll teach em20:50
CoreFusion-"that'll teach em"20:50
RST38hteach whom?20:50
CoreFusion-that was about pre-orders direct from Nokia20:50
CoreFusion-Like buying from another source would somehow not benefit Nokia..20:51
dmj7262I'd rather just get busy making the platform as application rich as possible20:51
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RST38hdmj7262: You are not getting it20:51
RST38hdmj7262: The place has now filled up with geeks who can't write a single line of code but think they know everything about technology, based mostly on their gadget habits20:52
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wazdlet's make closed section for "cool dudes" only :D20:53
RST38hdmj7262: Hence we are now getting all these "We should make <xxxx> for Maemo"20:53
fralsagreed (sept 09 ftw, right? ;))20:53
dmj7262Yeah, I can't write just one line either20:53
RST38hdmj7262: To which I have now started answering "No problem, download the SDK and start coding"20:53
RST38hdmj7262: "Can't code? Then stop whining."20:54
jeremiah_Does the N900 support ASP?20:54
RST38hThen there is a separate kind of messages of the type "I think Nokia should ..."20:54
dmj7262keyword *just one*20:54
lardmanjeremiah_: !20:54
lardmanjeremiah_: Just the man20:54
jeremiah_ehlo lardman!20:54
lardmanlet me dig out that supersized tarball for you....20:54
dmj7262I sometimes make we should have... suggestions because I don't have the time for everything I think of.20:55
jeremiah_I missed you yesterday20:55
lardmansame here20:55
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jeremiah_Oh, was it me who wasn't here?20:55
jeremiah_It may have been =]20:55
lardmannah, I think it was me actually20:55
lardmanlong day, couldn't be arsed to boot the computer, etc20:55
jeremiah_I spent the entire evening / night on garage20:56
jeremiah_Trying to get diablo to move built packages to their little nests in the repos20:56
RST38hjeremiah: still 10-vote threshold for extras promotion though?20:56
lardmanah, the famous diablo problem20:56
jeremiah_RST38h: I'm hesitant to hack the code without talking with Xfade first20:57
jeremiah_I mean, he has written a lot of it20:57
RST38hbut the guy isn't coming back any time soon =)20:57
jeremiah_Yeah he is20:57
lardmanhm, 60k files in my build dir20:58
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jeremiah_That's all?20:58
lardmanI do have 4 sb installations ;)20:58
lardmanthis one has been going for only a month20:58
lardmannot all in the root, in sub dirs too!20:59
lardmanI'll try uploading pocketsphinx one last time, and if it won't go, I'll stick it on my website for you to peruse20:59
RST38hWhat is it? =)21:00
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lardmanvoice recognition21:00
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RST38haha, speech recognition! and you have compiled flite too!21:00
lardmanyeah, flite is in extras-devel now21:00
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jeremiah_lardman: Right-o21:00
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dmj7262Is the phone app open source?21:01
lardmanRST38h: but only for fremantle atm, should work for diablo too though I imagine, but will prob need vfp flags in rules21:01
lardmanand I couldn't be arsed to change targets and test tbh21:02
* RST38h remembers to recompile newest vrsions of his stuff for diablo21:02
lardmanI do, just takes a few days extra21:02
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lardmanafter I upload mbarcode I'll do some diablo hacking21:03
philn-tphi there21:03
lardmanin preparation for the sometime-coming pvr drivers21:03
philn-tpi am looking for gst pkgs with gst-debug enabled21:04
lardmanphiln-tp: recompile21:04
lardmanI imagine21:04
philn-tpoh boy21:04
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lardmanphiln-tp: should be easy, just apt-get source and alter the rules file21:04
jeremiah_Yeah, a lot of libs and other stuff often come with debug packages.21:05
lardmanhmm, still "Sending request to"21:05
lardmannot a good sign21:05
jeremiah_philn-tp: You may be able to pull a debugging package down from upstream21:05
philn-tpbah.. i guess i'll recompile21:06
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lardmanMaemo Extras Assistant21:06
lardmanStep 4: check uploaded files21:06
lardmanChecking your files:21:06
lardmanFile upload error. (tar file) Please try to upload your packages again!21:06
jeremiah_There we have it.21:06
lardmanI'll stick them on my website and give you an url21:06
lardmanoh, you reckon it's a real error?21:07
jeremiah_I suspect it is just blocking because you have hit some arbirary limit21:07
Flandryi gave up and used scp for the 130 MB game data package upload21:07
jeremiah_Which I would guess is 20 Megs21:07
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jeremiah_not megs,21:08
jeremiah_Actually, perhaps they have put this in php.ini or somethign21:08
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jeremiah_Looks like its 50 Megs21:10
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lardmannah, works for me, is a false error21:14
* lardman hopes his website has enough space for ~30Mb of extra data21:14
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lardman|homeah, much better21:15
lardman|homeis here:
lardman|homeneeds optification if anyone fancies it21:15
jeremiah_What am I looking for, a deb?21:15
jeremiah_Or a tarball?21:16
lardman|homeotherwise I'll get round to it eventually21:16
jeremiah_Ah, the whole kit21:16
lardman|homeall the debian stuff, .tar.gz + .dsc + .changes21:16
lardman|homeI'm learning, gradually....21:16
* jeremiah_ goes to slurp packages21:17
philn-tpok so i recompiled gst and now can use GST_DEBUG ;)21:17
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philn-tpbut a simple gst-launch audiotestsrc ! autoaudiosink fails .. to connect to pulseaudio21:17
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lardman|homedoes it work normally?21:18
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jeremiah_lardman|home: uploaded and placed in fremantle21:20
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lardman|homejeremiah: extras-devel?21:20
lardman|homecan you make a note about upload sizes to pass onto Niels21:21
jeremiah_lardman|home: What do you want me to say?21:21
jeremiah_That you could not upload because of size?21:21
lardman|homejust that it breaks for that package and I think it's related to the size of the tarball21:21
lardman|homeno clue why21:21
jeremiah_The tarball is only 21 megs21:22
lardman|homeyeah, but pretty big for a source tarball really21:22
jeremiah_Yes, indeed.21:22
Flandrywhen i tried to upload the 130 mb package, it would eventually error out saying i hadn't uploaded a .changes file21:23
pH5hi, it seems that h-a-m ignores the recommends field of debian packages. is there any other way to pull in support packages during installation without a hard dependency?21:23
Flandryso a timeout of some sort21:23
jeremiah_I'll note that and make sure X-Fade sees it. :)21:24
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lardman|homepH5: patch HAM I fear, it has other shortcomings too21:24
lardman|homepH5: would be nice if it asked if you wanted the recommends21:24
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FlandryHAM could use some beefing up ;)21:25
jeremiah_Yeah, I agree. But that might get confusing quickly if your recommends recommends something21:25
lardman|homeFlandry: needs bg installation or multi (un)install21:26
lardman|homelike the iPhone or Android phones do, all in the bg21:26
jeremiah_Backgrounding installations would be awesome.21:26
jeremiah_Perhaps check to see if we are on the charger, download the Package file.21:26
Flandryyeah they would. I just found out it's actually open, so i will look into some improvements i had in mind21:27
lardman|homeshould be doable, just keep a list of selected packages and then install anything that's not been installed yet, etc21:27
ShadowJKhm, did h-a-m on N8x0 prevent you from switching back to another app?21:27
Flandryinstalls deferred to wifi21:27
lardman|homeShadowJK: yeah, was modal21:27
* pwnguin is confused21:27
Flandrythat would be cool too21:27
pwnguinDoes Ovi Store cost?21:27
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jeremiah_Flandry: I think Daniel Wilms is doing a new kinda thing with Qt to sorta augment HAM21:27
pwnguinto subscribe to?21:27
lardman|homepwnguin: can do, but needn't21:27
Flandryoh ok21:28
jeremiah_pwnguin: depends21:28
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jeremiah_pwnguin: Ovi Mail is free.21:28
lardman|homejeremiah: depends how quickly we get Qt of course ;)21:28
lardman|homes/Qt/Maemo 621:28
jeremiah_4.6 is in though right?21:28
Flandryjeremiah: that reminds me, could i get you to remove the uqm-altstart pkg please?21:28
lardman|homebbiab, supper time21:28
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jeremiah_Flandry: Yes, I'll do it right now21:29
jeremiah_Flandry: Is it in diablo or fremantle?21:29
pwnguinjeremiah_: for the purposes of this question, i'm just talking about the 50 dollar rebate offer21:29
jeremiah_Flandry: check21:29
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jeremiah_pwnguin: I'm unfortunately not sure about that.21:29
Flandryyay, daily newb cleanup accomplished21:29
pupnikoh the package :)21:30
Flandryme or the package, either way :D21:30
pwnguinjeremiah_: my guess is they're trying to get a lot of people "subscribed" to the store so they can go to commercial app vendors and have an interested customer base to point to21:31
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pwnguinand maybe some fake commercial success in their Ovi Store fueled by 50 dollar credits will lead to unsupported successes. i donno21:32
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jeremiah_pwnguin: Well, they definitely want paid apps on Ovi21:36
jeremiah_That much I am sure about21:36
jeremiah_I think it is application developers who are driving the Ovi store21:37
jeremiah_I mean, Nokia has 1 billion customers21:37
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jeremiah_So, an App store would be pretty successful I imagine21:37
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lardman|afkis also for individual app devs to be able to use, not just large commercial firms21:38
lardman|afkand like the Android Market & iPhone App Store will allow both free and $ apps21:38
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lardman|afkat least that's what I understood from the summit21:39
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pupnikFlandry: i love uqm so much, sometimes i leave it running just for the tunes21:40
pupnikdefinitely recommend folks get the 3DO music21:40
pupnikwhich mod player did you use?21:40
Flandryyeah i need to get that promoted to testing21:40
pupnikThe Ur-Quan Masters (gpl'd Star Control II)21:41
Flandryit keeps erroring with php errors21:41
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Flandryit's an internal version of libmikmod21:41
pupnikis the share data optified?21:41
pupnikok i used it too21:41
Flandryeverything goes in /opt/uqm now21:41
lardman~lart the SDK for not having extras-* enabled21:42
* infobot beats the SDK into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy for not having extras-* enabled21:42
Flandryi don't even make links, just put it in opt and the desktop file points there21:42
pupnikless changes21:42
dmj7262extras is enabled on the device, yes?21:42
pupnikuser must enable21:43
pupnikbut repo  is there21:43
lardmandmj726: not by default, but the entry is there21:43
Flandrylardman: i requested that as a bug i think. qgil shout it down21:43
lardmantoo late21:43
lardmanFlandry: in the SDK?21:43
dmj7262ah, so it's just that one checkbox that needs checking?21:43
lardmanhmm, do you have a #?21:44
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lardmandmj726: yep21:44
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Flandryi'm looking. bugzilla search seems to have locked up firefox oO21:46
lardmannp :)21:46
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pupnik"By the fetid breath of the dark twin Kazon!"21:47
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Flandrysearching "My Bugs" makes the tab unresponsive21:48
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wazdhehe, omweather reached 2k downloads :)21:50
dmj7262umm...are there that many devices out there yet?21:51
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pH5i downloaded omweather in the sdk..21:52
jeremiah_Flandry: Removed uqm-altstart21:52
lardmandmj726: from previous devices too21:54
dmj7262oh...not as impressive hen.21:54
lardmannote to self, fix zbar so that python is a recommends rather than a dep21:55
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povbotBug 5752: Extras, extras-devel and extras-testing are not in the default apt sources.list21:58
Flandrywow, thanks povbot :D21:59
pupnikFlandry: message text in uqm is not high enough contrast for bright light imo21:59
* Flandry is still creeped out by the awareness of IRC bots21:59
pupnikdark blue on dark blue looks cooÃl21:59
wazdOlmsted is not dead, he's a father again :D21:59
Flandrywhich messages?21:59
pupnikshould not be in defyult!21:59
pupnikfrom planet surface22:00
Flandrylander broadcast?22:00
Flandryi agree22:00
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Flandryi'll see if that's something i can fix :D22:00
pupnikit matches the blie on rest of screen22:01
pupniki would either go cyan or green22:01
lardmanhmm, do I need to compile camerabin for myself to install in sb?22:01
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pupnikFwiffo is so great22:03
pupnik241.6 368.7 Huffi-Muffi-Duffi22:04
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FlandryIt's good you like him. He has thousands of related encrustlings or whatever the word is :D22:04
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Flandryjeremiah: thanks. I'm beginning to think that the inability to view the package page for the big data package i mentioned earlier so that i can promote it to testing is a bug and not just due to slow servers. It fails every time with PHP errors and i've not seen that happen any other times.22:06
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Khertan_homeHi !22:08
Khertan_homeDoes there is know bug with openssh-server on Fremantle ?22:08
Khertan_home'PTY allocation request failed on channel 0'22:08
Khertan_homewhen i try to ssh from my desktop22:09
pupniktriscan scaler is my favorite in uqm - nice performance on N90022:09
wazdnow I see where I saw that
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Flandrypupnik: Oh, really? What kind of framerates do you get in combat?22:10
pupnikwill check22:11
pupnikmaybe it is too slow for combat22:11
Khertan_home[21:09] <Khertan_home> 'PTY allocation request failed on channel 0' <<< too many xterm open on the n90022:11
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pupnikthe pause feature rules22:12
Flandryjeremiah: Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/repository.php on line 54222:13
konttoripupnik: how much cpu do you consume for the scaling atm?22:14
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konttoriI'm weighting soft scaling vs compositing22:14
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pupnikcan not ssh into device konttori - diagnosing22:20
jkridner|workomap3 on non-nokia devices is going on live now. on the Part 2 stream.22:21
RST38hkonttori: Weighting for what? =)22:22
konttoriwell, interested in how much the compositor scaling will help you guys22:22
konttorias that was implemented 2 weeks ago22:22
konttoriI showed javispedro the example code on how to use it22:22
RST38hSoftware scaling is a bit tricky22:23
konttori(to verify that he was ok with the api of it)22:23
javispedrokonttori: you said it was not implemented in 1.0 release, but Iirc I saw the code on previous SDK' hildon-desktop22:23
RST38hCan I try compositing too? =)22:23
konttori(as we needed to verify from at least one 'user' of the api)22:23
konttorijavispedro: yeah, it's up for the first SSU release22:23
konttoriRST38h: just get the latest desktop from git22:23
FlandryRight now it just uses the SDL to scale22:24
RST38hkonttori: Software scaling only makes sense if you know exactly the ratio between source and destination bitmaps22:24
javispedrowell user user, i'll have to switch from SDL to Gtk+, but I planned that either way.22:24
RST38hkonttori: oh ok22:24
konttoriI think there is also the example code in git now22:24
RST38hkonttori: But if you know the ratio, you can write very tight assembly code that scales your image, even with antialiasing22:24
konttoriyeah, I'm kind of assuming that that might or might not be faster.22:25
javispedrobasically, the code puts the unscaled data in a new extra x11 window that the compositor handles in a special way -- converting from pixmap to texture the usual way but scaling the result22:25
Flandryit also uses a normal sdl canvas. I was considering changing it to a hardware canvas but don't know how much benefit there is in that22:25
javispedroFlandry: SDL to scale?22:26
RST38hjavis: sounds somewhat complicated22:26
javispedrosdl 1.2 scaling functions are awfully slow!22:26
javispedroat least use sdl_gfx22:26
Flandryit may be uqm-specific code22:26
Flandryi just used what was there ;)22:26
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Flandryyou can actually select the scaling algorithm in the setup22:26
konttorijavispedro: hmm... cannot you use the scaling from sdl?22:27
konttori(compositor scaling)22:27
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javispedrokonttori: it's not trivial for me right now how to paint to a GtkWindow right now -- RST38h may know that better than me.22:28
* javispedro is watching the Maemo on TI broadcast22:28
* Laiska also22:29
konttoriSo, the scaling would only work for gtk? ouch, that sucks.22:29
konttoriI really didn't have the time to follow on the the implementation and figured your confirmation was enough22:30
Stskeepsyet another interview over22:30
javispedrokonttori: SDL has no builtin scaling functions either way.22:30
Stskeepsmy ear is burning22:30
javispedroStskeeps: but as usual, good job22:30
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konttoriah, but setting the window properties of the sdl window should have been enough afaik22:30
toggles_wfuck u22:30
javispedrothat is doable I think22:30
konttorithat was what we pretty much agreed on pre-implementation.22:30
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toggles_wtoggles_w: sorry, focus..22:31
konttorithat you need to set the scale region to the xwindow properties22:31
javispedroyeah, skipping the HildonAnimationActor stuff and just setting the proper xatoms22:31
konttoriwhat is ti broadcast?22:31
konttorijavispedro: that should do the trick22:32
Stskeepsdid a talk on maemo on non-nokia devices22:32
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javispedrowell, will try this after dinner and see what needs to be done in sdl apps (if the latest sdk has that implemented)22:34
konttorigood presentation (checked the slides)22:34
Stskeepsquick and sweet22:34
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konttoriStskeeps: how was the reception of your presentation?22:35
BabelOhi guys22:36
BabelOwhat about maemo 5 / N900 and MMS with this ?22:36
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Stskeepskonttori: deafening silence in irc channel but the main thing is that when someone comes and reads the presentation + the video with the slides on and me talking, it may in the future inspire someone to participate in Maemo on Beagle/Zoom2 or Mer. and that's what is worth something.22:36
javispedrofrals: mms keyword, wake up!22:36
konttoriBabelO: really interesting.22:37
smackpotatmzzz so there was no noticible increase in speed with that ramdrive22:37
BabelOkonttori: yes i see that interesting too :)22:37
* konttori needed to reboot his device after ubifs had totally wasted 100% of rootfs22:37
woglindekonttori nice22:39
BabelOkonttori: need some work for the interface , but i ve no MMS full credit to devel this app :)22:40
pupnikkonttori: triscan: 53% during conversations.39% during idle conversation Ãmenu22:40
konttoriwow. so, that is only the scaling?22:41
Flandrytriscan is using 53% of CPU time during conversations?22:43
tigertis extras-devel borken?22:44
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Flandryhow so?22:44
pupnik /usr/bin/pulseaudio 18% cpu22:44
tigertsome no hash error22:44
pupnikplanet rotastion view 31%22:44
pupnikkonttori: uqm rarely/never does fullscreen updates22:45
konttoriah. of course22:46
konttoriplugin headphones to decrease pulseaudio consumption22:46
konttoriit doesn't do equalization changes if you have headphones (or bluetooth) on22:46
pupniknice hint ty22:47
pupnikit uses eq to get good performance out of tiny speakers konttori ?22:47
konttoriI would really like the equalization to be turnable off for also the speakers22:47
woglindebahaha android port22:47
konttoripupnik: that's the idea.22:48
woglindehm ah22:48
woglinde19:30  David Schleef  ds  Theora decoding on DSP22:48
pupnikone capacitor would do the trick tolo :)22:48
konttoriand also to not-to-put 1000 Hz audio out, as that resonates on the device22:48
woglindehm stskeep too22:48
derfwoglinde: He backed out.22:48
pupniki wont ask about dsp :)22:48
* konttori really doesn't understand the reasoning on why to use the equalization and not a fraction of a cent costing chip22:49
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jeremiah_tigert: It may be the mirrors22:49
tigertjeremiah_: ok22:49
jeremiah_tigert: Can you paste the error you're getting?22:49
jeremiah_I can check the Packages file to see if it is corrupt22:50
RST38hkonttori: chip or a capacitor?22:50
jeremiah_It happens. :(22:50
woglindehm I wonder if this xmbc guy uses the dsp stuff22:50
konttoriRST38h: well, an electronic component, whatever does the trick(s)22:50
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tigert"no hash entry in Release file"22:51
RST38hkonttori: capacitor will probably take more space22:52
woglindemoo rst22:52
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RST38hremoo woglinde22:52
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fralsjavispedro: darn, gf ninjamuted my laptop otherwise i wouldve answered ;-)23:05
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javispedrofrals: I knew there had to be some earth shattering excuse ;)23:05
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dmj7262ah the old ninjamutation excuse!23:06
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pupnikhas anyone got qik working? should be live23:14
pupnik2mbit adsl23:14
pupniki think 384kbit/s up23:14
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Ceron^ You now want to go to pripyat23:22
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JoeBrainCeron^: what's that a picture of?23:24
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andre__JoeBrain: chernobyl area23:27
Ceron^JoeBrain: pripyat and area close to chernobyl23:27
v2pxCeron^: oh, threadlink pls23:28
Ceron^i have no thread sorry23:28
Ceron^might be on englishrussia.com23:28
mikhasthere was a post in the blogosphere some time ago, about someone taking the offer of a guided chernobyl trip23:28
v2pxoh okay, nvm23:29
andre__or the webpage...23:29
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v2pxgot it23:29
v2pxon 4ch23:29
andre__now what was my original intention? ah yeah, forwarding bugs from internal to external [sic]...23:30
* VDVsx would like to visit that place :)23:31
* CoreFusion- is under a livelong surveillance because of that23:32
johnsqand get a good portion of radiation23:32
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lardmannight all23:34
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javispedrobye lardman23:34
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mikhasjohnsq, the radiation in the air is reported to be acceptable. it's the radioactivity in the soil that requires good footwear23:35
andre__CoreFusion-, uh?23:36
mikhasand even that would have gone by now if back then they hadn't just burried under the soil, but carried it away and treated it as toxic waste23:36
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CoreFusion-andre_: I'm part of a randomly selected people born in 1985-1986 who are from time to time checked for various stuff23:38
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Ceron^ what is love by gates23:38
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andre__CoreFusion-, aha... interesting23:39
StskeepsCoreFusion-: so you were born with a third leg? :P23:39
greenflyhow would one unmap the hardware volume keys before starting an application?23:39
greenflytrying to get right-click back in vncviewer23:39
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javispedrooh my god23:42
javispedroi just mounted the sd card without long filenames23:42
javispedroflashback to the past23:43
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, there's a page on the wiki.23:43
owenHi There, anybody got their n900 yet?23:44
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SpeedEvilowen: The news is a lie.23:45
SpeedEvilowen: it's not - yet - shipped to end users.23:45
owensome mention of Friday??23:46
SpeedEvilowen: It may have shipped to distributors, but not yet actual normal people.23:46
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owenoh well I have installed the SDK and sandbox23:46
owenbut my c skills are very rusty23:46
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owenso when do you really think it will ship to end users???23:48
owenbefore Christmas surely?!!23:48
CoreFusion-Nokia shop here in Finland start delivering this friday and the goal is to have all pre-orders delivered during next week (only for those who have ordered directly from Nokia, others will follow the next week after that)23:49
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oweni ordered from Nokia UK so here's hoping....23:49
ShadowJKI noticed a subtle change in one of the operators' responses on webforums here in .fi. They said something like "looks currently like we'll be allowed to ship <date>", the 'allow' part could imply they have units23:50
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CoreFusion-ShadowJK: What operator?23:50
greenflyGeneralAntilles: thanks, I appreaciate it23:50
greenflyer, appreciate23:50
greenflyGeneralAntilles: ahh, so if I want a particular app to do this I'm going to need to modify that app's source it looks like23:51
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, yes.23:52
owenany word on despotify23:52
CoreFusion-ShadowJK: Sounds good :) that's where I have ordered my N900 :)23:53
ShadowJKI ordered from nokia23:53
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konttoriowen: I have heard despotify is a straight compilation23:54
konttoriso, perhaps someone needs to take the time and package it.23:55
konttoriand then someone else to make UI for it.23:55
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konttoriI mean the command line despotify works like a charm23:55
owenhope so, I might get that hand of compliation by next summer23:55
VDVsxI saw some Qt version if I recall correctly23:55
VDVsxthat's it^23:56
konttorican someone please take the time and package that?23:56
konttoriI am not using it myself, but that would be wonderful for people who do use spotify.23:56
konttori(anybody willing to invite me?)23:57
VDVsxcan be a good candidate for the UX hackfest, if it needs some UI love23:57
owenI'm running it under wine23:57
* CoreFusion- would like an invite too..23:57
konttoriyeah, definitely needs UI love23:57
owenI need your email addys23:58
suihkulokkidespotify needs paid account23:58
VDVsxcan you use spotify in Finland ?23:58
konttoriVDVsx: yeah you can23:58
konttoriit needs paid account?23:58
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CoreFusion-How much is it?23:58
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konttoridoes it work in the ad paid mode at all?23:58
suihkulokkifree accounts are supported by ads and despotiy doesn't support playing spotify ads23:59
konttorisuihkulokki: can somebody just add the support?23:59
suihkulokkimaybe the despot developers think it would be too easy to mod it not to play ads23:59
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konttori   --> 9.99 per month23:59
VDVsxbahhh : "     Spotify is currently available in Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, France and Spain. We hope to launch in more countries in the future."23:59

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