IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-11-17

GeneralAntilles	Milhouse, I have a lot more to go around now that I'm not reading Talk.	00:00
SpeedEvil	The fundamental issue is the descision makers are entirely disconnected from the community. The descisionmaker says 'There shall be lots of blue!' - the coders implement this - the community has no input.	00:00
GeneralAntilles	geneven drove me back out this morning.	00:00
javispedro	Stskeeps: and discussion about God in TMO!	00:00
Milhouse	GA: And the only responses seem to be "WONT FIX" (sorry, too easy!) :)	00:00
Stskeeps	who the heck put Power search where 'new posts' used to be	00:00
GeneralAntilles	Milhouse, I've run those numbers before.	00:00
lcuk	Stskeeps, its always good to find the chan completely different hour by hour	00:00
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GeneralAntilles	Milhouse, INVALID and WONTFIX is actually an extreme minority.	00:00
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GeneralAntilles	OK, 910 WONTFIX/INVALID bugs in Applications and Platform.	00:01
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?classification=Maemo+Official+Applications&classification=Maemo+Official+Platform&resolution=INVALID&resolution=WONTFIX	00:02
BBNS	=] did anyone figure out the vibrator API on N900 yet?	00:02
Milhouse	GA: I gave up bothering about any Diablo bugs	00:02
GeneralAntilles	399 of which are INVALID (which, arguably, we can toss out since most of those bugs are useless).	00:02
Milhouse	GA: At some point the N900/Fremantle bugs will go the same way	00:02
GeneralAntilles	1556 bugs FIXED	00:03
javispedro	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1028	00:03
povbot	Bug 1028: Power VR mbx support	00:03
* javispedro ponders reopening it...		00:03
Milhouse	"FIXED" or "FIXED?" ;)	00:03
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GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?classification=Maemo+Official+Applications&classification=Maemo+Official+Platform&resolution=FIXED	00:03
GeneralAntilles	Milhouse, that's a discussion I'm not willing to rehash. :)	00:03
GeneralAntilles	Out of 3962 total bugs	00:04
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GeneralAntilles	That's a 12% WONTFIX rate of total	00:05
GeneralAntilles	and 16% of all resolved bugs.	00:05
Milhouse	How many Diablo bugs went to WONTFIX, what was the percentage?	00:05
Milhouse	Then again, perhaps Diablo was a one-off	00:06
javispedro	I think you're confusing WONTFIX with Fixed in Fremantle..	00:06
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Flandry	how does anybody get things done on maemo.org? Is there some secret to getting pages to load?	00:06
Milhouse	It's slow as buggery	00:06
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Milhouse	https is even worse.	00:06
javispedro	you pray to the gods and sacrifice virgins	00:07
qwerty12_N810	Flandry: It involves sacrificing a goat	00:07
GeneralAntilles	236 WONTFIXED bugs with version set to a Diablo string out of 1228 total.	00:07
javispedro	see?	00:07
Milhouse	Good grief I was having such a good day today as well! ;-)	00:07
Flandry	i've tried repeatedly to load the page for my app package in extras-devel so i can promote it, and it always fails with PHP error	00:07
GeneralAntilles	Flandry, wait for the server upgrades.	00:07
Flandry	a goat, eh	00:07
Milhouse	GA: Hmmm better than I was expected... and how many actually FIXED?	00:07
javispedro	well, clearly, the 770 is in a bad mood	00:07
GeneralAntilles	454	00:08
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Flandry	when is the server upgrade? Are they going to use two 770s, or skip straight to 810s?	00:08
GeneralAntilles	Milhouse, anyway, I've run these numbers several times in the past. They're not great, but they're not terrible.	00:08
GeneralAntilles	Flandry, should be end of this month or next.	00:08
Milhouse	A beowulf cluster of N810s was pretty awesome	00:08
Milhouse	:)	00:08
Milhouse	s/was/would be/	00:08
Flandry	after release oO	00:09
qwerty12_N810	Flandry: They're big spenders: One N800 will be added	00:09
javispedro	and the 770 donated.	00:09
Milhouse	GA: Fair point on the WONTFIX in that case. Ultimately though, the process can be improved that is without a doubt.	00:09
Flandry	ok i'll just nip off to android app market for two weeks then, shall i :P	00:09
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GeneralAntilles	Milhouse, well, the process can ALWAYS be improved.	00:10
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eean	isn't the almost TI just blantant piracy? what is it doing on maemo.org :D	00:11
Milhouse	link?	00:12
Tester	eean: isnt immitation the sincerest form of flattery ? ;)	00:13
Milhouse	is this one of those calculator emulator thingies?	00:13
javispedro	no, it is not.	00:13
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eean	its not immitation though	00:13
eean	it has the real ROMs doesn't it?	00:13
javispedro	no.	00:14
eean	whoa really?	00:14
lcuk	almost ti should have a proper deal with Ti themselves, its running on a ti chip afterall. make it really ti	00:14
eean	so its emulating z80 just to allow you to run z80 binaries	00:14
javispedro	note that TI is distributing some of them.	00:14
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eean	that guy did a lot of work if its really not using the original roms :)	00:15
javispedro	it requires them.	00:16
Milhouse	Does anyone do an "Almost Casio"? I used to have an FX-7000G when I were at skool	00:16
eean	so it does use the original rom	00:16
eean	javispedro: why did you say no then? ...	00:16
javispedro	it is not distributing them.	00:16
javispedro	at least, not in the .deb package	00:16
eean	well I didn't install anything	00:16
eean	I just selected the app from maemo apps	00:17
Milhouse	Oh look, TI Calcultor ROMs for download: http://www.ticalc.org/programming/emulators/romdump.html	00:17
eean	well I guess thats the case then, ti doesn't care	00:17
SpeedEvil	http://www.4004.com/	00:17
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Milhouse	Actually the above link is NOT for downloading ROMs, it just explains how to do it from a real calculator. Distributing TI Calculator ROMs is apparently illegal.	00:18
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eean	oh ok that makes more sense	00:19
* GeneralAntilles is inclined to trust RST38h.		00:19
javispedro	oh no, you pinged him! now he will come and take revenge on those poor mortals	00:19
Milhouse	TPB is your friend it would seem for TI ROMs	00:20
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lcuk	ticalc people are in sweden and disclaim all knowledge of dodgy stuff on their site	00:20
Milhouse	32.9MB zip containing most ROMS on The Pirate Bay	00:20
javispedro	(hopefully...)	00:20
eean	Milhouse: you can get them from maemo.org as well :D	00:21
Milhouse	In which case I would agree with whoever asked the question - that might be a tad suspect.	00:21
lcuk	did we work out if they are in the package	00:21
lcuk	or if they are a postinst download	00:21
eean	well it would've been a really fast download :)	00:21
eean	I can ask dpkg, just a sec	00:21
pupnik_	wow milhouse is back :) salut	00:21
Milhouse	hello pupnik :)	00:22
* GeneralAntilles wonders idly why FIASCO images are always just that.		00:22
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Chani	blarg	00:23
Chani	my friend gave me a login to his server where he's set up sccratchbox. supposedly it works fine for him, but for me there are no targets...	00:23
pupnik_	because the naming followed the creation?m what is wrong?	00:23
Chani	[sbox-: ~] > sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL	00:23
javispedro	well, as long as you use the FIASCO update.	00:23
Chani	sb-conf: No such target: FREMANTLE_ARMEL	00:23
eean	Chani: are you the same user as your friend?	00:24
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* javispedro bangs head at the sight of yet another word per word duplicate thread on tm		00:24
eean	lcuk: yea the roms are part of the main package	00:24
javispedro	s/tm/tmo	00:24
Chani	eean: nope	00:24
pupnik_	i am amazed at n900 keyboard. it is like sitting on cake, as my muscovite gf used to say	00:25
Milhouse	The author of Almost TI seems to hosting his own ROMs	00:25
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Chani	eean: also, I don't have root and he has a paper due soon. maybe it'd be easier to set it up locally...	00:25
eean	'own'	00:25
Flandry	sitting on cake? :D	00:25
Milhouse	pupnik: So is that good? ;-)	00:25
pupnik_	yea. cushy ride	00:25
Chani	o.0	00:25
Milhouse	nice.	00:25
Chani	it doesn't sound good	00:25
eean	Chani: did you try straight sb-conf? are you sure it isn't already setup?	00:26
Chani	eean: I'm sure. when I logged in it told me I had no targets and I should go configure some in sb-menu	00:26
pupnik_	Flandry: are you workin on UQM?	00:26
eean	Chani: an right sb-menu is what I meant :)	00:26
Flandry	i'm just waiting for it to past extras-testing	00:26
Flandry	i think it's ready to go	00:27
Chani	how much space does a maemo environment usually take?	00:27
* CoreFusion- is back		00:27
eean	Chani: i've never tried scratchbox with multiple users, I think each user gets their own targets and stuff.	00:27
Flandry	*get past	00:27
Chani	...and how much more space will it take for all the dependencies of plasma-mobile, I wonder...	00:27
pupnik_	the config package conflicts with installed uqm main package	00:27
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eean	Chani: well once you start building stuff it starts taking a lot :D	00:27
Flandry	say what? oO	00:28
pupnik_	looks ok so far - check if planet rotation stop patch is applied. i heard game continues to calculate rotating planet visual while driving on planet	00:28
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pupnik_	also i have been toying with combat difficulty	00:29
pupnik_	for the over 30 crows	00:29
pupnik_	crowd	00:29
Flandry	it's built from svn from two weeks ago	00:29
Flandry	oh, i fiddled with that too	00:29
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Flandry	the frame rate is currently hard coded as 24 fps	00:29
Chani	eean: ya, no surprise there :P I think kde stuff is taking about 45gigs for me right now	00:29
Anidel	re	00:29
Flandry	i was thinking of making it a variable	00:30
pupnik_	well maybe you can ask the uqm devs Flandry	00:30
pupnik_	right. good	00:30
Chani	oh foo	00:30
eean	Chani: haha yea :D this is a problem for scratchbox since its pretty insistent about living in your root	00:30
Chani	scratchbox is going to want to use /	00:30
eean	jinx!	00:30
* Chani hugs LVM		00:30
pupnik_	fps was my preffered slider a.sp	00:30
Chani	can I give /scratchbox its own partition, though?	00:30
eean	probably	00:31
eean	you could also use a virtual machine	00:31
Chani	beh, that would take even more space, no?	00:31
Mek	just make sure it is not mounted nodev, like usb drives usually are :)	00:31
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Chani	my teacher said he had one set up... then said it was 10 gigs	00:31
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Flandry	the thing i'm not sure about is that decreasing fps makes the game easier. Have you found it to be?	00:31
Flandry	it decreases responsiveness, for one thing	00:32
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Flandry	pupnik_: could you please explain what package error you were describing?	00:33
eean	Chani: well a virtual machine is a whole OS. :) there's a ubuntu-based one that you could download	00:33
Chani	yeah, I know.	00:34
pupnik_	flandry the config patch matches uqm and conflicts somewhere	00:34
eean	Chani: or I could give you my public key and I could try to fix your account. or that might be weird since its your friends computer.	00:34
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Termana	yello	00:35
pupnik_	want error message in german?	00:35
Flandry	sorry, what config patch? you mean the "uqm-altstart"?	00:35
pupnik_	zes	00:35
pupnik_	yes	00:35
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Flandry	oh, that's intentional. The uqm-altstart should be manually removed and i asked for it to be removed from repo	00:36
Flandry	it was a mistake to create it	00:36
pupnik_	ok	00:36
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Flandry	thanks for testing :)	00:36
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Flandry	Once the current release gets into extras without any more issues i will look into optimizations and difficulty options. It's hard to do without an actual device and i hope to get an N900 soon :)	00:38
CoreFusion-	flandry: what are you making?	00:39
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Flandry	i packaged Ur-Quan Masters (Star control 2)	00:40
CoreFusion-	ok	00:40
dmj726	I just came to the rather frightening realization that Blender is usable at 800x480	00:40
pupnik_	the music is so good	00:40
Flandry	yes, it's awesome. That game blew me away when i first played it	00:41
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Termana	blender? usable? your pulling my leg	00:42
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CoreFusion-	haha, and when was that :P it's not exactly a new new game :P	00:43
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CoreFusion-	1 new	00:43
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CoreFusion-	-	00:43
CoreFusion-	- 1 new*	00:43
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toddf	has anyone seen links or howto's or other instructions on loading a different kernel or an alternate os on a N900 ?	00:43
Flandry	back when it came out, of course. The music is still good by today's standards, i'd say	00:44
GeneralAntilles	Ah, I see wazd's a bit down in the dumps.	00:45
dmj726	I shrunk the 2.5 interface window to 800x480	00:45
GeneralAntilles	Do we need to open a donation fund for him?	00:45
Shapeshifter	the n900 needs hal, right?	00:45
Shapeshifter	and runs it	00:45
dmj726	it looks crowded, but not to the point where it would be useless	00:45
dmj726	stylus required if you were to use it on the n900	00:46
lcuk	dmj726, give us a realistic 800*480 screenshot in png format	00:46
lcuk	or something decent, lets have a looksee	00:47
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dmj726	http://imagebin.org/71909	00:49
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GeneralAntilles	dmj726, that's sick.	00:50
lbt	has anyone used gnokki with the n900 ?	00:50
dmj726	That's just running in Ubuntu 9.10 of course	00:50
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: well it kinda sucks ddp doesnt answer and not shipping to russia..	00:52
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GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, yeah, I know, DDP sucks.	00:52
Milhouse	my credit card hasn't been charged - has anyone had their card charged by ddp?	00:54
CoreFusion-	...	00:54
GeneralAntilles	Milhouse, supposedly shipping should start next week.	00:54
CoreFusion-	It will come eventually :P	00:54
Milhouse	next week? bummer.	00:54
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Anidel	is it confirmed that ddp devices come with no warranty?	00:55
CoreFusion-	what????	00:56
timeless	anidel: if you don't get a warranty, i'd suggest you be extremely careful w/ the usb port	00:56
CoreFusion-	how on earth could it be possible to buy a new phone that doesn't have warranty?	00:57
Anidel	that's what they state in their web pages ...	00:57
CoreFusion-	doesn't nokia provide a 2 year warranty anyway? (at least in EU)	00:57
Anidel	timeless :) but I do want a warranty	00:58
GeneralAntilles	Anidel, dunno.	00:58
Anidel	corefusion: no.. 1 year.. 2 year is something you find only in Italy AFAIK	00:58
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CoreFusion-	hmm, i'm sure it's 2 years	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Anidel, half the stuff with the DDP program doesn't seem to apply.	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Anidel, the whole process is horribly broken.	00:59
CoreFusion-	at least here in finland they have 2 years warranty	00:59
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GeneralAntilles	Right from the start with them demanding you input a company name.	00:59
Chani	:/	00:59
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Anidel	ga: i know.. but it 'd be nice is someone would tell me yes the warranty is there	01:00
Anidel	heck it's 250 euros	01:00
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Chani	the wiki instructions for installing scratchbox aren't quite right	01:00
* Chani is following http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation		01:00
CoreFusion-	and that's good cos i'll be paying it for the next 2 years :P	01:00
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GeneralAntilles	Anidel, yeah, I'd love for anything about the DDP to be made clear.	01:00
Chani	[root@brain maemo]# ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0.sh -u chani	01:00
Chani	E: Give installation path using '-s PATH' argument.	01:00
GeneralAntilles	Anidel, sadly is one big obnoxious mess.	01:01
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Anidel	ga: of course I've emailed them.. no answer	01:01
Anidel	yeah indeed	01:01
GeneralAntilles	s/is/it's/	01:01
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Anidel, sadly it's one big obnoxious mess.	01:01
timeless	gan: has anyone indicated which group runs ddp?	01:01
Anidel	thanks, infobot :p	01:01
timeless	from memory the n8x0 distributions were also unhappy experiences	01:02
GeneralAntilles	timeless, Forum Nokia? Dunno.	01:02
Chani	running a script I downloaded as root and getting an error.. makes me a little nervous about just trying things until it works	01:02
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timeless	chani: use virtualbox	01:02
Milhouse	I've just emailed Nora asking for clarification on the warranty issue.	01:02
timeless	there's an image somewhere	01:02
timeless	nora?	01:02
Milhouse	Nora @ DDP	01:02
Chani	oh great, maemo doesn't like my kernel	01:03
Chani	timeless: yeah, maybe I will	01:03
Anidel	we complained in t.m.o but Quim never commented on those posts.. that scares me	01:03
Milhouse	yeah, odd that.	01:03
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Milhouse	If/when I get a reply from Nora I'll update the thread accordingly.	01:04
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Anidel	yep	01:04
Anidel	they replied to andrea grandi who wrote few days after me.. he also asked about the warranty but no comments on that	01:04
eean	Chani: heh what issue does maemo have with your kernel?	01:05
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timeless	eean: eh?	01:06
Chani	eean: it wants me to disable VDSO	01:06
timeless	oh yeah	01:06
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javispedro	Chani: and you don't want to disable VDSO? or you can't?	01:07
Milhouse	night all	01:07
javispedro	nite	01:07
eean	Chani: its a runtime kernel option, its not a feature of the kernel	01:07
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Anidel	nite milhouse	01:07
timeless	that's sbox 1 sucking	01:07
timeless	use sbox 2	01:07
Chani	javispedro: I'm just feeling discouraged by all these little things not going quite right	01:07
javispedro	I fixed the sbox issue.	01:08
Chani	I don't want to end up hosing my laptop somehow; I forgot to do backups again	01:08
timeless	chani: so...	01:08
javispedro	Chani: by disabling vdso you're not going to hose anything. maybe lose a bit of performance.	01:08
timeless	sbox is essentially old technology	01:08
Chani	so I'll probably do backups tonight and work on this tomorrow	01:08
timeless	past EOL	01:08
Anidel	uff need to fix the damn rotation.. why on hell people required rotation :(	01:08
Chani	I have homework anyways	01:08
timeless	that it doesn't work out of the box w/ newer kernel designs/features isn't paricularly surprising	01:09
timeless	this is Linux after all, not Solaris	01:09
javispedro	well, it is surprising for me.	01:09
Anidel	timeless :)	01:09
javispedro	specially such a static linked program as sbox.	01:09
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timeless	no promises are made about compatibility of any kind	01:09
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timeless	w/ solaris, if the authors had a support contract, there'd be an official patch cluster (chain&	01:10
javispedro	lol	01:10
timeless	javispedro: seriously, that's what paying for support and contracting for interfaces mean	01:11
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* timeless happens to like snv-1		01:12
javispedro	sure. it just surprises me.	01:12
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javispedro	probably not used to paying such levels of support :)	01:12
timeless	(a zone whose only purpose is to claim to be one major os version older than the global zone)	01:12
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timeless_mbp	well, it isn't quite like that	01:15
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timeless_mbp	a company would basically review the apis they're using and see if any of them aren't listed as having a certain stability level	01:15
timeless_mbp	and for those they'd make an agreement with sun	01:15
timeless_mbp	or sun would suggest an alternative	01:15
timeless_mbp	but my impression is that it wouldn't cost that much	01:16
timeless_mbp	people seem to think of companies as being unreasonably demanding about payment	01:16
timeless_mbp	but it's really rarely the case.... an os/hardware vendor wants software for its platform because it drives sales	01:16
javispedro	in my case, probably because I still look at them from an individual PoV.	01:18
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javispedro	either way, the vdso issue is ancient, and of course, fixed by some idiot... http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2009-August/000457.html... now why it's not included yet is over me.	01:19
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wazd	~seen fiferboy	01:23
infobot	fiferboy <n=fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 4h 53m 50s ago, saying: 'If qwerty12 doesn't know it, it can't be known'.	01:23
GeneralAntilles	wazd, :(	01:23
wazd	meh	01:24
GeneralAntilles	Dun buy an HD2. :(	01:24
wazd	GeneralAntilles: that's a nice phone)	01:24
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GeneralAntilles	wazd, c'mon, DDP sucks, but we NEED you.	01:24
wazd	GeneralAntilles: i'm not going anywhere as I said :)	01:25
GeneralAntilles	Yes, but we need you to have an N900. :P	01:25
* w00t_ mutters about release dates		01:26
wazd	GeneralAntilles: I love this community so I'll stay here for a while)	01:26
frals	hmm, mozilla weave seems pretty nice	01:26
GeneralAntilles	wazd, don't decide anything just yet, OK?	01:26
javispedro	yeah, some people emailed the DDP team today	01:27
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zerojay	wazd: What happened?	01:28
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Anidel	0j: he can have the device discounted, but seems he can't have access to it via forum.nokia and no reply so far from them...	01:30
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zerojay	Ugh.	01:31
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zerojay	All because of where he lives, I imagine.	01:31
Anidel	looks like	01:31
wazd	I'm not living in Kenya	01:32
GeneralAntilles	Liar.	01:33
wazd	What's wrong with russia, it's a freaking neighbour country for finland	01:33
javispedro	and nokia has a store there don't them?	01:33
javispedro	no excuse.	01:33
wazd	Yes, we have nokia store	01:34
Anidel	and is nokia selling the n900 there as well?	01:34
Anidel	there'll be a meetup event in Moscow	01:35
wazd	I was trying to ask what should I expect for like 3 weeks	01:35
zerojay	wazd: The fact that there is a meetup in Moscow makes all of this really stupid.	01:35
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wazd	Both ddp and quim	01:35
javispedro	I think it's just general DDP stupidity and nothing country specific.	01:35
wazd	zerojay: yep	01:35
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wazd	So I'd better expect nothing and live happily again	01:37
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Anidel	but probably you can have it shipped somewhere else and someone will ship it back to you?	01:37
GeneralAntilles	wazd, who from Nokia is gonna be at the meetup?	01:37
GeneralAntilles	Could they bring one?	01:38
wazd	GeneralAntilles: don't know	01:38
GeneralAntilles	wazd, email Quim again.	01:38
wazd	GeneralAntilles: some marketing guy I guess	01:38
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, ping?	01:38
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, pong	01:39
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, this seems like a good case for a chair. :P	01:39
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wazd	Quim probably don't have much time cause of that Barcelona stuff, so I'd rather don't bother him much	01:40
Anidel	indeed	01:40
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Anidel	wazd I think this is exactly something quim should check out	01:40
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, beleive me I already insisted a lot in this issue, seems that some matters in the community end up in some kind of black hole :(	01:42
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wazd	Well, whatever, I'm staying here anyway, I can buy n900 for the full price anytime	01:43
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wazd	Ironic, but effective :D	01:44
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javispedro	well, without warranty and without any indication the ddp devices will ship some day.... it's not that much of a loss.	01:44
Anidel	:)	01:45
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VDVsx	wazd, you can also try to ship it to one of the neighbor countries where some community folk lives :)	01:45
derf	Nokia does seem to go out of its way to make DDP participants feel like second-class citizens.	01:46
wazd	VDVsx: to ship what?)	01:46
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VDVsx	the device	01:46
VDVsx	lol	01:46
wazd	VDVsx: I can buy retail right here)	01:46
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VDVsx	wazd, thats good news ;)	01:46
wazd	VDVsx: and ddp doesn't work anyway	01:46
VDVsx	wazd, probably you can buy a cheap one locked to a carrier ;)	01:47
wazd	VDVsx: for a shitload of cash though. I hope they'll tell the price on the meettup	01:47
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VDVsx	wazd, steal one there ;)	01:48
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wazd	VDVsx: we haven't got locked devices here	01:48
* VDVsx bets that Jussi will be in that meetup		01:48
wazd	VDVsx: it's against the law	01:48
VDVsx	oh	01:49
Macer	Stskeeps: ?	01:49
wazd	VDVsx: I really doubt that there will be anyone important	01:49
VDVsx	wazd, so you can only have a device with discount trough a contract ?	01:50
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VDVsx	wazd, it's a official meetup, so someone important should be there	01:50
wazd	VDVsx: No discounts at all	01:50
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wazd	VDVsx: some russian marrketing dummy at most :D	01:51
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VDVsx	wazd, lol	01:51
wazd	Oh look, panoramic desctop!	01:51
VDVsx	lololol	01:51
wazd	Desk*	01:51
zash	wazd: maemo+1?	01:52
wazd	zash:?	01:53
wazd	Error :D	01:53
VDVsx	wazd, make some friends there, since eldar seems a bit pissed with Nokia, maybe they can 'pass' 'exclusive' devices to you ;)	01:53
zash	"panoramic desktop"	01:53
wazd	VDVsx: bwahaha	01:53
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b-man17	Stskeeps: i have the installation mode selection menu up and running in Mer-Installer: http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/mer/user-mode-selection.png :)	01:54
wazd	VDVsx: they can't pass me n900 what are you talking bout :D	01:54
VDVsx	wazd, maybe a n920/n950/nWhatever ;)	01:55
Anidel	n1000	01:55
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VDVsx	Anidel, I prefer the n5000, the kb is much better;)	01:56
Anidel	let's call it C64..	01:56
Anidel	mm... will Frodo run on the N900?	01:56
wazd	VDVsx: not sure that after Eldar's deeds they still want to deal with russians	01:57
wazd	My case proves that :)	01:57
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GeneralAntilles	lol	01:58
GeneralAntilles	wazd, hush. :P	01:58
VDVsx	wazd, they seems to have some sort of hard feelings with Russia based in the history, lol	01:59
wazd	VDVsx: damn))	01:59
qwerty12_N810	wazd: Yeah, stop hogging Karelia!	02:00
wazd	I should return to the past and prevent the attack of the USSR :D	02:00
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GeneralAntilles	wazd, you know, you're not going to like the community as much once you find the secret document revealing VDVsx's culpability in preventing you from getting a device.	02:01
b-man17	lol	02:01
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* wazd shakes with nuclear briefcase in front of qwerty12 :P		02:01
qwerty12_N810	Hehe	02:01
VDVsx	lolol	02:02
GeneralAntilles	You know you can't trust people with two names. . . .	02:02
wazd	And now, meet my bear Ivan :D	02:02
Anidel	hey qwerty12	02:02
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qwerty12_N810	Hiya, Anidel. How's it going?	02:02
Anidel	pretty good..	02:03
Anidel	tired	02:03
Anidel	about to go to sleep	02:03
qwerty12_N810	#maemo keeps me awake (mostly)	02:04
Anidel	that's good ;)	02:05
wazd	Oh my, 3AM	02:05
pupnik	nice work on xchat network dialogue by peter zelezny. it would be nice if chanlist were left-aligned and used a new maemo5 scrolly list	02:05
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GeneralAntilles	pupnik_, bottom tabs.	02:05
qwerty12_N810	XChat takes no criticism, I see =)	02:05
b-man17	qwerty12_N810: how much sleep do you get on a daily basis? xD	02:05
wazd	Ahaha, Ironman :D	02:06
qwerty12_N810	b-man17: ~6 hours	02:06
b-man17	not bad :)	02:06
w00t_	sleep is overrated	02:08
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wazd	Well, gonna get some sleep, cya tomorrow guys	02:08
w00t_	sleep is overrated	02:08
GeneralAntilles	Later, wazd.	02:08
w00t_	:-)	02:08
b-man17	xD	02:08
qwerty12_N810	'night, wazd	02:08
GeneralAntilles	Anybody watching Venture Bros season 4.	02:08
wazd	You're overrated, w00t! :D	02:08
w00t_	never! :P night wazd	02:08
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VDVsx	gnite wazd :)	02:09
b-man17	too late xD	02:09
w00t_	pet msn hatred: when someone starts writing at the same time as me, and we both stop to see what the other says	02:09
Anidel	if I port Xournal to the Lumix GF1 camera will Panasonic lend me it?	02:09
qwerty12_N810	Anidel: Yes, but it requires a £300 deposit of which Panasonic may choose not to return to you	02:10
Anidel	that's fine :D	02:10
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johnx	mmm00000	02:40
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pupnik	himjphnxhow are you doing,	02:45
pupnik	wow, not ready to touch-tzpe without looking	02:45
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johnx	gazunteit (sp?) :)	02:45
johnx	doin' good	02:46
johnx	pretty darn tired though	02:46
johnx	got like 4 hours of sleep this morning	02:46
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, how many years have you been using computers? :P	02:46
GeneralAntilles	johnx, high five!	02:46
pupnik	i hit m a lot trying for space	02:46
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johnx	pupnik, n900?	02:46
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pupnik	yes johnx	02:48
pupnik	on n800 i hit n	02:49
pupnik	n810	02:49
johnx	hey, UPNP/DLNA people: how strange of an idea is it to think of an x server whose framebuffer is a DLNA renderer. does that make any sense?	02:49
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GeneralAntilles	This is a bit depressing https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=5.0+%281.2009.42-11%29	02:51
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timeless_mbp	GAN900: i think we have a couple of hundred fixes for that release fwiw	02:53
CoreFusion-	GA, lol	02:53
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timeless_mbp	but realistically, the release ingredients were mostly selected before summit	02:53
CoreFusion-	Solution: By a decent access point	02:53
CoreFusion-	buy*	02:53
GeneralAntilles	CoreFusion-, the search recipe is the interesting part, not the bug listed. ;)	02:54
CoreFusion-	GeneralAntilles: Oh, ok. Still, the bug was hilarious	02:54
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johnx	wait, "fixed"? is that a real fix or just changing what "maximum" does?	02:55
GeneralAntilles	johnx, who the hell knows.	02:56
johnx	i guess I will after I check the diff :)	02:57
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CoreFusion-	Can't wait for my N900 and helping out in testing software :)	03:03
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ljp	me too	03:05
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GeneralAntilles	Man, there is some really buggy behavior when you long-tap to activate edit mode in h-d.	03:11
w00t_	buggy in what way?	03:12
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GeneralAntilles	w00t_, applets shoot all over the place, desktops switch, etc.	03:13
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SmilybOrg	lol	03:15
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* b-man17 wishes that Esbox had a syntax-cleanup function for python		03:17
w00t_	GeneralAntilles: that sounds ..unpleasant	03:18
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GeneralAntilles	w00t_, indeed.	03:18
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* w00t_ hopes that gets fixed soon		03:19
GeneralAntilles	Just don't tap'n'hold to edit, I guess.	03:19
w00t_	haha	03:19
w00t_	well, I'm not overly concerned	03:20
GeneralAntilles	Use the menu, instead.	03:20
w00t_	shipping is still up in the air, so I've nothing to tap ;)	03:20
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GeneralAntilles	For future reference.	03:20
w00t_	hehe	03:20
w00t_	are you using the updated fw?	03:21
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, just installed 42-11	03:21
CoreFusion-	Is that the one that comes installed on the N900 when it ships?	03:22
w00t_	yes	03:22
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CoreFusion-	How is it?	03:22
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CoreFusion-	Much improvement?	03:22
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GeneralAntilles	Not sure yet	03:23
CoreFusion-	It's been 2 months since I have tried a N900 so I guess it's a big improvement to that :)	03:23
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CoreFusion-	but now i really have to go get some sleep... already 3:24 in the morning....	03:24
* CoreFusion- goes to sleep		03:25
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Xisdibik	Hello Maemoers	03:35
johnx	allo	03:35
Xisdibik	Does anyone here have a pre-order from the US?	03:36
Xisdibik	(i mean have they pre-ordered, not have they recieved their phone)	03:36
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GeneralAntilles	Lots of people, surely.	03:39
pwnguin	i preordered with newegg	03:40
pwnguin	559, free shipping no sales tax	03:41
Xisdibik	im trying to see which place might actualy get it first	03:41
Xisdibik	as some of the stuff on the forums makes it sound like Amazon and the like are getting their shipments way late, and Dell will be sending it sooner	03:42
pwnguin	they'll probably all get it at the same time	03:43
pwnguin	newegg shows it ships on the 30th, and dell was saying you'd recieve a few days later	03:43
pwnguin	but i thougt dell took their order page down	03:44
pwnguin	hmm. theres a rebate listed at amazon	03:45
Xisdibik	hopefully	03:46
Xisdibik	i dont want to get my phone way later than other people	03:46
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pwnguin	you already have	03:47
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pwnguin	theres like 300 people with n900s out there already	03:47
Xisdibik	im talking about retail ones	03:48
Xisdibik	im 100% ok with GeneralAntilles having a N900 before me ;)	03:48
SpeedEvil	dell?	03:48
SpeedEvil	Selling the n900?	03:48
pwnguin	yes	03:48
SpeedEvil	Odd.	03:49
Xisdibik	dell is apparently the "only authorized dealer" in USA	03:49
w00t_	SpeedEvil: have you been living in a cave? :p	03:49
pwnguin	it was in the magazine they sent	03:49
Xisdibik	besides nokiaUSA	03:49
SpeedEvil	Do they sell random computer stuff?	03:49
johnx	yes	03:49
SpeedEvil	w00t_: I have - for obvious reasons - not been researching the US retail market.	03:49
pwnguin	dell sells monitors, video games other crap now	03:49
w00t_	SpeedEvil: sure, but neither am I	03:49
w00t_	(given that I live in the UK)	03:49
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pwnguin	it was quite a deal	03:49
w00t_	http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:mbNkzRN1CnsJ:accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Wireless_Phones_Requiring_Activation/productdetail.aspx%3Fc%3Dus%26l%3Den%26cs%3D19%26sku%3DA3076016+dell+n900&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk	03:50
pwnguin	599.99 and came with a 15 percent off coupon, and discover does 10 percent cash back through dell	03:50
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GeneralAntilles	Venture Bros season 4 is amazing.	03:55
pwnguin	1, 2, and 3 were not?	03:56
GeneralAntilles	They were, season 4 is even better, however.	03:56
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, good, Python is opitfied now.	04:14
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johnx	sooo, am I being dumb or does n900wallpapers.com not include the .desktop file that makes it a "pack"?	05:18
Xisdibik	i must be really dumb then since i have no idea what your talking about :D	05:20
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johnx	the n900 has the concept of "wallpaper packs" that include 4 wallpapers, one for each desktop	05:21
smackpotato	what does this mean	05:21
smackpotato	lock -> 127.0.0.1:+1896	05:21
johnx	smackpotato, a little context?	05:21
smackpotato	ok its a link to a socket is my guess	05:21
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smackpotato	from ls ~/mozzila/microb	05:22
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johnx	is it the current PID?	05:23
smackpotato	pid	05:23
smackpotato	?	05:23
johnx	process ID	05:23
smackpotato	i sec	05:24
smackpotato	1 sec	05:24
mzz	that's a symlink using the ip and pid as "target" (it's a trick)	05:24
mzz	it's not a link to a socket or something like that, it's a lockfile of sorts	05:24
mzz	(presumably it's a symlink instead of an actual file because you can create those atomically)	05:25
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smackpotato	so it disapears when microb is off	05:25
johnx	you can't 'touch' atomically?	05:26
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smackpotato	im trying to put all that directory on a ram drive to see if it speeds up microb	05:27
smackpotato	i think i have it now	05:27
mzz	johnx: yes, but you can't touch and write something identifying yourself into a lockfile atomically	05:28
mzz	johnx: so if two instances try to write the lockfile at the same time there's a race condition	05:28
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johnx	ah, cool :)	05:29
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, they don't	05:37
GeneralAntilles	johnx, since normal people don't know how to install those.	05:37
GeneralAntilles	johnx, but PR1.1 should allow you to use really wide images instead.	05:37
johnx	<_<	05:37
johnx	>_>	05:37
johnx	in the interim, xarchiver+zipfile seems like a great alternative	05:37
GeneralAntilles	I was recommending pushing big desktop packages to Extras.	05:38
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johnx	I don't see why both methods can't coexist happily	05:39
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GeneralAntilles	Just sayin'	05:39
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Xisdibik	GeneralAntilles: are you building any apps yourself (just curious)	05:42
GeneralAntilles	Nope	05:43
* GeneralAntilles doesn't really do developer stuff.		05:43
GeneralAntilles	I'm a community, documentation, web, bullshit guy.	05:43
Xisdibik	gotcha, still helpful from what ive seen of you :D	05:44
johnx	durrr...my mental capacity is rapidly dropping below the ability to edit simple text files	05:47
GeneralAntilles	johnx, time to get more sleep.	05:47
johnx	I already slept once this week	05:47
GeneralAntilles	lol	05:48
johnx	I should be good for at least another couple days	05:48
GeneralAntilles	That explains it.	05:48
johnx	yeah, too much sleep, not enough stimutacs	05:48
GeneralAntilles	W	05:48
GeneralAntilles	T	05:48
GeneralAntilles	F	05:48
GeneralAntilles	?	05:48
GeneralAntilles	http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/3/31/All_bobbleheads.jpg	05:48
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5783	05:48
povbot	Bug 5783: Smooth scrolling not active using arrow keys until current page tapped	05:48
GeneralAntilles	Ah, whore, slow clipboard.	05:48
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GeneralAntilles	Why is Nokia too good to use frickin' ctrl-l?	05:49
johnx	wait for it, wait for it: "not discoverable"	05:50
Xisdibik	whats ctrl-l	05:50
johnx	either that or they drank the firefox-mobile koolaid	05:50
GeneralAntilles	johnx, yeah, and ctrl-shift-* are? ;)	05:50
johnx	Xisdibik, go over to your browser and hit ctrl+L	05:50
GeneralAntilles	Xisdibik, focuses on the address bar in nearly every browser since the stoneage?	05:50
johnx	not IE :)	05:50
GeneralAntilles	Nearly every	05:50
GeneralAntilles	and I've been using that shortcut (well, cmd-l) since System 7.	05:51
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Xisdibik	selects the URL box and highlights everything in it?	05:51
johnx	in IE it pops up the annoying URL entry box of annoyingness. still pretty close though	05:51
Xisdibik	didnt know that	05:51
Xisdibik	good to know thanks!Q	05:51
johnx	Xisdibik, yup. very handy :)	05:51
Xisdibik	-Q	05:51
GeneralAntilles	and bugs like this, folks, are why we don't want more Nokia-controlled applications.	05:51
johnx	GeneralAntilles, hey, they said they'd be opening the browser more. is there source for all of it now?	05:52
GeneralAntilles	johnx, no.	05:52
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I dunno what the story is there.	05:52
johnx	:(	05:52
GeneralAntilles	More broken promises, presumably.	05:52
johnx	...aaaaand, back to tear :)	05:52
GeneralAntilles	Ugh	05:52
GeneralAntilles	Tear is broken.	05:52
GeneralAntilles	It's just another set of irritating bugs to deal with.	05:52
GeneralAntilles	At least I'm used to the MicroB ones.	05:52
johnx	browsers take a long time to mature	05:52
johnx	GeneralAntilles, no, you were used to the microb problems, but there are new ones with each release :>	05:53
Xisdibik	hey GeneralAntilles what OS are you using atm?	05:53
GeneralAntilles	OS X	05:53
Xisdibik	bah, shoulda seen that coming :P	05:53
johnx	GeneralAntilles, did I tell you about my planned 'iMac abomination'? I can't remember ...	05:54
GeneralAntilles	Twice now. :P	05:54
GeneralAntilles	Sleep.	05:54
johnx	heh	05:54
johnx	I got that file edited at least	05:54
Xisdibik	johnx: what iMac abomination, i want to hear	05:54
GeneralAntilles	It's like Nokia's UI people are all on drugs.	05:55
johnx	Xisdibik, I want to take a beagleboard, and stick it in the base of a G4 iMac (the iLamp one), along with a couple beefy 9-cell laptop batteries for power	05:56
Xisdibik	and then do what with it?	05:56
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johnx	maybe put it in the kitchen for recipes? hadn't really thought that far ahead	05:57
johnx	basically thinking light inet surfing	05:58
GeneralAntilles	Sleep.	05:58
johnx	just reflashed, getting set back up ...	05:58
Xisdibik	johnx: what do you need all the batteries for, would u move it around alot or something?	05:59
* GeneralAntilles restored a backup.		05:59
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johnx	Xisdibik, weight	05:59
johnx	yeah, also being able to move it without worrying about it	06:00
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pwnguin	translate_tts?q=Sweet zombie Jesus!&tl=en	06:02
pwnguin	doh	06:02
pwnguin	http://translate.google.com/translate_tts?q=Sweet%20zombie%20Jesus!&tl=en	06:02
johnx	wow...can it do stt?	06:03
pwnguin	i donno. its about time someone redid tts	06:03
pwnguin	i actually took a look at the source corpus for the festival stuff	06:04
pwnguin	its obvious why it's terrible now.	06:04
pwnguin	their initial recording quality wasn't very good.	06:04
pwnguin	problem is, it's a massive pita to re-record	06:05
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johnx	mmm...pita	06:07
* johnx sleeps now		06:07
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Xisdibik	night johnx	06:08
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Xisdibik	GeneralAntilles: you sleeping as well yet?	06:14
GeneralAntilles	It's only 11:14	06:14
GeneralAntilles	PM	06:14
Xisdibik	east coaster!	06:18
Xisdibik	Canada?	06:18
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GeneralAntilles	Pfft	06:25
GeneralAntilles	Canada sucks.	06:25
Xisdibik	haha	06:27
Xisdibik	United States of Whatever?	06:27
GeneralAntilles	Florida	06:37
GeneralAntilles	United Statse of Florida	06:37
Xisdibik	hehe	06:37
Xisdibik	class over	06:37
Xisdibik	heading home	06:37
dmj726	anyway to access files on the system partition via the file manager?	06:37
GeneralAntilles	No	06:38
dmj726	okay...xterm works too.	06:43
dmj726	I'm evaluating how well n900 will work for a little quick on the go hacking.	06:43
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dmj726	Seems like a bit of python hacking would be doable.	06:48
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GeneralAntilles	dmj726, Khertan does his programming almost exclussively on the N810.	07:12
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kirma	t.m.o seems to be playground for folks with attention span comparable to a fruit fly these days	08:37
kirma	no intent to insult fruit flies...	08:38
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kirma	I must admit I'm intrigued to have any hint of when my N900 might arrive, but good God, that forum behavior is childish.	08:41
tigert	heh	08:41
tigert	its the same with any forum	08:42
tigert	the critical mass of people brings in the adhd	08:42
inz	tigert, "you too the feet out of my mouth"	08:42
tigert	:)	08:42
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RST38h	kirma: Just ignore anyone with join date >=Sep2009	08:43
RST38h	You won't get that many false positives	08:43
kirma	well, I haven't even joined the forum... unless some ancient account has been transferred to it	08:45
kirma	just lurking around since haven't had much to say, or even much to ask, want to get the device first...	08:46
tigert	i think garage accounts work there too?	08:46
tigert	you just need to login there too afair	08:47
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kirma	well, I mean - I might have some account from early 770 times.	08:48
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kirma	these things called "work" and "life" just take so much time and energy that I haven't been overly eager to rampage in again ;)	08:49
tigert	yeah	08:50
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Xisdibik_	is the General asleep?	08:52
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tekojo	tigert garage account works where?	08:54
tekojo	for now talk and garage use separate accounts, we are looking at single sign on for everything, but it requires a lot of work	08:55
tigert	oh	08:56
tigert	ok	08:56
tigert	maybe i remember wrong then	08:56
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tekojo	it's in the works, but we haven't been vocal about it, should talk more in talk about it	08:58
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tigert	ok	09:22
tigert	maybe i just created another account with same credentials there then	09:22
tigert	or bergie made me into a guineapig :)	09:22
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thux	morning	09:45
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dmj726	these netsplits are getting crazy	10:07
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Stskeeps	splitnode	10:08
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hendry	is there a trick besides running the internet radio on Diablo devices to keep the wifi connection up and stable?	10:40
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Khertan	Ouch i fear this morning when i see a rescuing software update when rebooting my n900	10:49
Khertan	hendry: using a real router ...	10:49
Khertan	hendry: i didn't have any problem	10:49
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Stskeeps	lardman\|gone: ping	10:51
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:52
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RST38h	EHLO, Sts, Jaffa, lardman, Khertan	10:53
Jaffa	Khertan: Going to finish/continue work on mSaber?	10:53
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Khertan	Jaffa: not yet ... but i ll ...	10:56
* Jaffa 's son loves it		10:56
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Khertan	Jaffa: currently the planning is to finish PyGTKEditor before	10:56
Khertan	to be able to edit code easily :)	10:56
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Khertan	but i ve still some error in the code syntax hilight ...	10:57
Jaffa	:(	10:58
Khertan	someone know what is this red message displayed at startup saying restoring last software update ?	10:58
Khertan	i got this, this morning	10:58
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Khertan	but i don't know why	10:59
wazd	heya all	10:59
RST38h	heya wazd	10:59
Stskeeps	morning wazd	11:00
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Anidel	morning all	11:04
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wazd	Anidel: heya	11:07
Anidel	hey wazd	11:07
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Khertan	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6219	11:09
povbot	Bug 6219: Modest doesn't take care of preferences for automatic update	11:09
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Stskeeps	http://icu64.blogspot.com/2009/09/first-public-release-of-icu64frodo.html - neat	11:13
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alterego	My girlfriend wants to buy me my N900 ..	11:16
alterego	I can't let her spend that much on me that's insanel	11:16
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* Myrtti feels insane, plans to buy one for herself		11:17
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alterego	She's not interested in my gadgets :P	11:20
alterego	She just knows I really want one and I don't think she has any good ideas for Christmas.	11:21
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Lynoure	alterego: let her decide?	11:21
crashanddie	"[09:20] <alterego> She's not interested in my gadgets :P" <-- poor you.	11:21
crashanddie	(btw, that sentence sounded so wrong on so many levels)	11:22
Lynoure	alterego: maybe she can get you a gift certificate for the part of it	11:22
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alterego	Lynoure: yeah, I was thinking that.	11:22
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VDVsx	wazd, ping	11:38
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pupnik_	we shoulÃd try that lightweight caching dns client	11:38
pupnik_	i am having to hit enter 3-1w times to get a site to load	11:39
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pupnik_	3-12	11:39
johnx	pupnik_, hmm? on your n900?	11:39
pupnik_	yup	11:39
johnx	so you want to try something like dnsmasq?	11:39
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pupnik_	mhm	11:39
johnx	you're already using dnsmasq	11:39
johnx	next question	11:40
pupnik_	k	11:40
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johnx	:)	11:40
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RST38h	moo pupnik, johnx, VDVsx	11:40
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pupnik_	if i oing a site twice, the dns lookup happens once?	11:40
pupnik_	ping	11:40
pupnik_	moo	11:40
pupnik_	pingmoo	11:40
VDVsx	morning RST38h :)	11:41
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pupnik_	alias moo=ping	11:41
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pupnik_	johnx: ?	11:41
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johnx	pupnik_, dunno	11:41
johnx	might want to look at how dnsmasq is configured	11:41
johnx	but I assumed it has at least a small dns cache	11:42
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johnx	no reason to use it otherwise	11:42
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pupnik_	that is the behavior i want -- cached, selectable expiration delay	11:42
pupnik_	ok	11:42
pupnik_	will putter	11:42
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johnx	yeah, dnsmasq is upstream. worth looking at there site for config options	11:42
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wazd	VDVsx: pong	11:44
VDVsx	wazd, do you still have plans to attend the barcelona long week ?	11:45
VDVsx	you're not registered :p	11:45
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wazd	VDVsx: nope, no documents :)	11:53
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VDVsx	wazd, oh :(	11:54
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Shapeshifter	What does the n900 need hal for?	11:55
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RST38h	for the red light	11:56
pupnik_	how cool is this, dnsmasq on N900? very cool.	11:56
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pupnik_	ahh the cache honours time to live information. might explain why google.com gives new ip each (or most) ping	12:00
pupnik_	ip addr	12:00
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lardman	jeremiah: sorry, didn't have time last night to upload the pocketsphinx stuff, will try to do it at lunch time	12:12
* lardman wonders why people still cling to the complicated "press home button, tweak your ear" instructions for flashing <=N810 devices.....		12:14
Shapeshifter	RST38h: for the red light?	12:15
Shapeshifter	uhm, reference to hal/dave?	12:16
Shapeshifter	I mean, hal is mostly needed for hotplugging hardware, but the n900 does that just about never.	12:16
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Shapeshifter	specially as it doesn't do usb host mode.	12:17
SpeedEvil	bluetooth I spose	12:17
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ensi	anyone know how to get kinetic scolling/finger scrolling to work with Qt on Maemo 5, qt 4.3. I found this http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt/Finger_Scrolling but it doesn't appear to do a anything. I tried setting these properties both on the app/widget/window but nothing really changes.	12:56
gnuton	ensi: Qt packages in SDK are old and there is no Kinetic scroll there	13:01
ensi	is this in qt 4.6 ?	13:02
gnuton	ensi: no Qt 4.5	13:02
gnuton	ensi: Qt 4.6 doesn't have kinetic scrolling yet	13:02
gnuton	ensi: you can get latest Qt 4.5 pkgs from here: deb http://pug.altervista.org/maemo fremantle extras	13:03
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gnuton	ensi: more info at http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt/Packages	13:04
hrw	morning	13:04
gnuton	hi hrw	13:04
ensi	4.6 appears to have kinetic scrolling	13:04
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Jaffa	RST38h: You've referred to the "anonymous voting hole" on maemo.org/downloads/. Do you know what mechanism is used for anonymous voting?	13:05
hrw	heh... still n900 is not shipped	13:06
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shuduo	anyone know how to build maemo 5 sdk from source?	13:06
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timeless_mbp	shuduo: eh?	13:08
timeless_mbp	1. get gcc. to download sources to apt	13:09
timeless_mbp	3. build apt	13:09
shuduo	timeless_mbp, i mean, is there a guide to direct me how to build it from source	13:09
timeless_mbp	4. waste days	13:09
Khertan	does there is a way to know what is the guys which always vote thumb down on maemo.org/news ?	13:09
timeless_mbp	4 takes quite a while	13:09
timeless_mbp	Khertan: aww, respect their right to privacy!	13:09
Stskeeps	for those who are compiling stuff for N8x0 initfs: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3373#c20	13:09
povbot	Bug 3373: please provide Diablo uclibc/eabi toolchain for building stuff for initfs	13:09
timeless_mbp	antiprivacy dudes suck :)	13:09
Khertan	hum ... but stupid voting sucks too	13:10
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timeless_mbp	lemmings are people too!	13:10
timeless_mbp	or are they lemmings?	13:11
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Khertan	hum ... i think it was something public in the profile on maemo.org ... but no	13:11
glass_	people who take off their heads and explode like a bomb are no people	13:11
timeless_mbp	Khertan: iirc it was public	13:12
Khertan	"was" ... ok	13:12
timeless_mbp	glass_: aww, how dare you depersonalize people from the middle east	13:12
timeless_mbp	that's the same offense most people accuse them of doing to the rest of us	13:12
glass_	well lemmings wear robes too	13:13
glass_	i think it's an illuminati conspiracy	13:14
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Khertan	someone know what is this red message at startup : 'Restoring last software update : 80%'	13:14
Khertan	i got it this morning while rebooting	13:14
timeless_mbp	Khertan: you want to use enus1	13:14
timeless_mbp	the string is better there	13:14
Khertan	enus1 ?	13:15
Shapeshifter	can one use xmodmap on maemo?	13:20
Shapeshifter	I'll probably receive an n900 with a swiss/german keyboard which omits the up and down keys for é/ä keys	13:20
Shapeshifter	and I want to remap them to act as arrows like on the US version.	13:21
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timeless_mbp	Shapeshifter: there are definitely ways to do things	13:22
timeless_mbp	but my impression is that xmodmap doesn't normally work as people expect	13:22
Shapeshifter	timeless_mbp: uhm, well, it does what I expect on normal machines, is it any different on maemo5?	13:23
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Shapeshifter	but, let's rephrase the question, can I globally map those umlaut buttons to arrows for all apps on the n900?	13:23
Lupu	There's a setting for the hardware keyboard layout directly in the GUI.	13:24
timeless_mbp	Shapeshifter: you can pick any of the shipping hardware layouts	13:24
timeless_mbp	in case the English layout is more to your liking	13:24
Shapeshifter	Ah, I see.	13:24
mgedmin	what, no xmodmap for fremantle yet?	13:24
* timeless_mbp isn't sure how many differences the German layout has		13:25
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Veggen	mmm, I guess you can make your own custom Xkb.	13:25
hrw	question is: will user be able to select own keymap in preferences	13:26
hrw	under Maemo4 it is not possible without 3rdparty modules	13:26
Veggen	I did. however, on my n810 it was "weird". Something made me think they had done weird things in the code for the norwegian layout in difference to the german.	13:26
timeless_mbp	hrw: it's no different from maemo4	13:26
hrw	timeless_mbp: fucking idiots	13:26
timeless_mbp	but again, you're talking about a thing which has a gui chooser	13:26
timeless_mbp	which maps to ~10 files	13:26
timeless_mbp	you're root, and you're free to canibalize however many of those files as you wish	13:27
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Veggen	you can just pick one of those and change it.	13:27
hrw	timeless_mbp: maemo4 has all keymaps in one file	13:27
timeless_mbp	one file, 10 files, whatever	13:27
timeless_mbp	you're still root	13:27
timeless_mbp	where's the file? :)	13:27
hrw	timeless_mbp: find /usr/share -name rx*44	13:27
timeless_mbp	/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51	13:28
timeless_mbp	ok, so you just rewrite that file... i don't see a problem	13:28
timeless_mbp	again, you're still root	13:28
timeless_mbp	and the file is presumably well documented with compilers and decompilers	13:28
hrw	timeless_mbp: problem is - your changes will get lost on package updates	13:28
timeless_mbp	so you write a package	13:29
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hrw	timeless_mbp: with lot of conflicts with original system ones?	13:29
timeless_mbp	you're talking to someone who is maintaining a package that is self healing and replaces roughly 60 packages and 6000 strings	13:29
timeless_mbp	doesn't hurt my package.	13:29
timeless_mbp	install enus1 and play with it	13:29
timeless_mbp	oh, if you don't have fremantle, just dissect it	13:29
timeless_mbp	since the diablo one relied on a different approach	13:29
hrw	url?	13:30
mgedmin	hrw, dpkg-divert!	13:31
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timeless_mbp	dpkg-divert = hell	13:31
mgedmin	maybe	13:31
* timeless_mbp is quite happy not using it		13:31
mgedmin	I've been shipping my own custom X keymap on desktops for a couple of years with dpkg-divert	13:31
mgedmin	then Xorg reorganized the xkb directory layout and it broke	13:31
* timeless_mbp rotfl		13:31
mgedmin	and I decided not to be contrarian and learn the upstream layout	13:31
timeless_mbp	3 cheers for linux stabilitiy	13:32
timeless_mbp	s/tiy/ty/	13:32
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: 3 cheers for linux stability	13:32
mgedmin	cheer! cheer! wait, I've got to fix 10 things broken by an upgrade ... okay now, cheer!	13:32
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hrw	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2899 was maemo4 - I hope that for maemo5 I will not have to reopen it	13:34
povbot	Bug 2899: List of hardware keyboard layouts is not expandable	13:34
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ccooke	Odd.	13:41
* ccooke seems to be having some little problems since updating to the release firmware		13:41
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Stskeeps	flashed mmc too?	13:42
ccooke	things like the screen backlight turning on, but nothing appearing for anything up to a minute	13:42
ccooke	yes	13:42
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ccooke	I just had a phone call - it was about 10 seconds before I could actually answer it, because the phone was ringing but the screen was still in backlight-on-no-ui mode	13:43
Stskeeps	had browser open?	13:44
ccooke	nope	13:44
ccooke	I had one IM window	13:44
ccooke	I ended up rebooting the phone this morning, because it took more than a minute to turn on the UI	13:44
mgedmin	phone out of ram?	13:45
ccooke	(same problem: Backlight, no ui visible. Except that time it never came up	13:45
wazd	oh, my 2630 has the same bug :D	13:45
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wazd	It rings but shows stand by screen :)	13:45
ccooke	... yikes!	13:45
ccooke	350M of swap in use?!	13:46
mgedmin	I've had similar symptos (bug 5712) but I was doing something specific to trigger it	13:46
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5712 N900 goes into swap hell with frozen UI, despite free RAM	13:46
ccooke	this thing's only running a terminal!	13:46
mgedmin	interesting	13:46
mgedmin	normally it uses about 100--150 megs of swap	13:46
ccooke	I know	13:47
mgedmin	I've seen it use 250 megs of swap while the UI remained perfectly smooth and responsive	13:47
mgedmin	I was impressed	13:47
ccooke	and you'd expect less than 100 on a just-rebooted phone	13:47
ccooke	... and there doesn't seem to be anything using up that much memory	13:47
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ccooke	Hmm. I put the problem down to the mail app this morning, but IIRC I didn't stop it updating mail until after the reboot	13:48
ccooke	I wonder if there's a leak	13:48
* ccooke reboots again, now that he can be sure it won't auto-refresh as soon as the device is back up		13:48
ccooke	Ow:	13:48
* mgedmin recommends vmstat as a tool to see what's happening		13:48
mgedmin	btw just after boot my n900 starts running the thumbnailer for a while with cpu at 100%	13:49
mgedmin	that goes away after a few minutes	13:49
mgedmin	presumably when it notices all those gigabytes of media files have already been thumbnailed	13:49
ccooke	Mem: total 245548, used: 236768, free: 8780, shared: 0, buffers: 4768	13:49
ccooke	swap in use: 355448	13:50
* mgedmin plans to reflash the new firmware soon		13:50
mgedmin	but backups etc. a hassle	13:50
ccooke	I have a strong feeling this is the email client	13:51
ccooke	Everything was fine until I set that up	13:51
ccooke	Soon know...	13:51
mgedmin	how many thousand emails in your inbox?	13:51
ccooke	11	13:51
ccooke	oh, no. 13.5	13:52
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ccooke	(but while the email app was horribly slow using the prerelease OS, it still worked)	13:52
ccooke	heh	13:53
ccooke	Fresh reboot: 178M of memory in use, no swap	13:53
ccooke	Nothing shared, though	13:53
aquatix	wow, 13.5k emails in an inbox?	13:53
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wazd	Wow, 178mb on fresh start?!	13:53
* aquatix files those in imap folders		13:53
ccooke	I'm trying to recall if there was shared memory in use before - I'm sure I'd have noticed if not	13:53
ccooke	aquatix: so do I... Every year :-)	13:54
aquatix	ghehe	13:54
aquatix	i prefer doing it automatically and when i'm done with a certain task	13:54
* frals suggests doing that monthly instead ;)		13:54
mgedmin	some threads span months	13:55
ccooke	frals: that would mean tracking stuff was much harder.	13:55
RST38h	wazd: N900 comes with 256MB RAM + 512MB ROM	13:55
aquatix	mgedmin: those tend to live in folders then here :)	13:55
ccooke	No, I suggest using a mail client that actually works ;-)	13:55
aquatix	but everyone his own system of course	13:55
aquatix	ccooke: ghehe	13:55
mgedmin	RST38h, is that a quote from some clueless article?	13:55
aquatix	claws-mail \o/	13:55
frals	Good point.. :P	13:55
wazd	RST38h: well, XP had smaller memory footprint on load :)	13:56
RST38h	mgedmin: No, it is the memory chip specs	13:56
RST38h	wazd: Well, it's Linux, open source!	13:56
mgedmin	256 MB RAM + 256 MB NAND flash, yes	13:56
mgedmin	where is the 512 MB ROM hidden?	13:56
RST38h	mgedmin: Ok, I stand corrected then	13:56
RST38h	mgedmin: I mean NAND flash by ROM	13:56
kirma	what kernel N900 runs nowadays, .31? wasn't that supposed to handle swapping better?	13:57
Stskeeps	if it was 512mb nand, we wouldn't worry about opt	13:57
Stskeeps	:P	13:57
wazd	RST38h: ah, I forgot :D	13:57
* mgedmin just read an entertaining article exploring the differences of ROM and flash memory, among other things: http://www.xbox-linux.org/wiki/17_Mistakes_Microsoft_Made_in_the_Xbox_Security_System		13:57
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ccooke	aquatix: claws mail is better?	13:57
frals	kirma: isnt it .28 still?	13:58
* ccooke might try it		13:58
kirma	I don't know, thus asking :)	13:58
nomis	mgedmin: I was watching the talk they gave at the 22C3 conference. That was fun :)	13:58
frals	.31 would be nice, network namespaces \o/	13:58
aquatix	ccooke: at least i love it on my n810	13:59
aquatix	i don't have an n900	13:59
ensi	gnuton: you know about this Qt 4.6.0 package? It looks like it is broken. QMap and QList are giving me linker errors.	14:00
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ccooke	aquatix: I'm not sure it's available yet	14:01
ccooke	I was planning to port mutt, myself :-)	14:01
ccooke	and integrate it, if I can	14:01
aquatix	heh :)	14:01
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aquatix	well, claws-mail is called a GUI mutt now and then; not really the same thing of course, but i really like the client	14:01
aquatix	use it on my big machines as well	14:02
ccooke	nod	14:02
gnuton	ensi: there is something broken in your installation. anyhow feel free to join #qt-maemo	14:02
ccooke	I don't use GUI clients when I can help it	14:02
aquatix	fair enough	14:02
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aquatix	but they did an interesting job for the n8x0	14:02
frals	God I hate public transportation in stockholm at times	14:03
RST38h	mgedmin: It is FlashROM after all =)	14:03
ensi	gnuton: i think its the package that is broken.	14:04
mgedmin	is mutt directly on the nxx0 better than mutt over ssh?	14:04
mgedmin	mutt's imap facilities seemed a tad slow to me when I tried it on my laptop	14:05
gnuton	ensi: Maybe I didn't tried those packages yet	14:05
wazd	frals: God is a jerk that breaks t.m.o. forums, what do you want :D	14:05
mgedmin	I used ssh mymailserver + mutt on my n8x0	14:05
frals	wazd: haha :D	14:05
mgedmin	modest on the n900 is actually more convenient than ssh + mutt for me, for the first time	14:05
mgedmin	kudos to modest devs!	14:05
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tbf	ccooke: aquatix: 13.5k emails in inbox are easy to achieve thanks to all those spamers	14:18
tbf	but most of them should be hidden and marked as spam	14:18
tbf	mail is dead.	14:18
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aquatix	tbf: myeah, my spam is filtered away to a spam folder on my server	14:23
SpeedEvil	mgedmin: 'he complete Xbox source code has leaked, including the kernel and libraries source.' diddn't know that -f un	14:24
aquatix	wow	14:24
aquatix	SpeedEvil: link?	14:24
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SpeedEvil	mgedmin's link of a few mins ago	14:25
SpeedEvil	this is however the classic xbox	14:25
aquatix	ah right	14:25
Stskeeps	still, interesting :P	14:25
aquatix	oh, that article	14:25
mgedmin	nobody cares about 16-bit DOS :-)	14:25
* aquatix knew that one already :)		14:26
mgedmin	oops, wrong channel	14:26
aquatix	good stuff though	14:26
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aquatix	mgedmin: true though ;)	14:26
SpeedEvil	Wrong channel?	14:26
SpeedEvil	Oh - you mean you're not coding a n900 xbox emulator? :(	14:26
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lbt_	has anyone used gnokii on the N900?	14:27
lbt_	or any other sync for contact info to alinux desktop?	14:27
wazd	Wee! I've found a charger for my Jabra BT500!	14:27
wazd	Sexiest handsfree ever :)	14:28
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aquatix	jabra is nice; i'm happy with my BT5010	14:29
* SpeedEvil remembers the bluetooth 'device' - that may be sexier.		14:30
SpeedEvil	http://thetoy.co.uk/ - not worksafe.	14:30
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aquatix	SpeedEvil: then why do you post it now :(	14:31
* aquatix is tempted		14:32
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hrw	SpeedEvil: ;DDD	14:37
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aquatix	hey, i've had that cellphone	14:40
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timeless_mbp	hrw: odd, 2899 is "fixed" but w/o an internal bug reference or a changeset/debian package id	14:46
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timeless_mbp	oh hrm	14:47
timeless_mbp	interesting	14:47
timeless_mbp	ok, let's install ukeyboard and see what happens	14:47
hrw	timeless_mbp: it is "LETSGETRIDOFTHEBUG" resolution not "FIXED"	14:47
Lynoure	I could not figure out ukeyboard...	14:47
Lynoure	Like how to change the layouts.	14:47
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hrw	Lynoure: it is in docs and on ukeyboard website	14:48
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Lynoure	hrw: even after browsing http://repo.or.cz/w/ukeyboard.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/doc/howto	14:50
hrw	Lynoure: to select other layout: simple run control panel and select layout to have other. to change layout (or add new) you need to learn XKB	14:52
Lynoure	hrw: Already learned xkb some years back. :)	14:53
hrw	so change /usr/share/xkb/ukeyboard file or sth like that	14:53
Lynoure	hrw: I'm hoping to change the symbols on-screen kb only...	14:54
hrw	Lynoure: onscreen keyboard is other package	14:55
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Lynoure	hrw: Do you happen to remember the name?	14:56
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hrw	normally I would say 'matchbox-keyboard' but on hildon it has other name iirc	14:59
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timeless_mbp	odd	15:09
* CoreFusion- is back		15:09
timeless_mbp	my control panel now says Text Input (ukeyboard)	15:09
InformatiQ	is neils X-Fade here?	15:09
timeless_mbp	supposedly he went on vacation	15:09
timeless_mbp	which is a crime against the community	15:09
Stskeeps	after being without one for quite a while, i don't blame him :P	15:10
timeless_mbp	ok	15:11
timeless_mbp	so, ukeyboard seems to "work"	15:11
timeless_mbp	in that it does something to my control panel app	15:12
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timeless_mbp	i'm not sure what yet	15:12
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andre__	feri, at least here you send emails from the future (one hour ahead) :-)	15:14
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AndrewFBlack	wish I could tell which apps were going to install to /opt and which didn't	15:14
feri	andre__: really? hmm. have to check it, my clock show the right value though. sorry about it.	15:14
feri	s/show/shows	15:15
timeless_mbp	AndrewFBlack: easy enough to do...	15:15
timeless_mbp	apt-get install --download-only	15:15
andre__	feri, "Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:45:28 +0100" in the message source here	15:15
timeless_mbp	dpkg-dev ...	15:15
AndrewFBlack	timeless_mbp, k	15:16
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feri	andre__: yeah, i need to adjust my clock and come back from the future, thanks for noticing it ;)	15:21
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lardman\|home	so does flashing the eMMC wipe the whole thing this time round?	15:27
ccooke	lardman\|home: yes	15:28
mgedmin	thank you for asking and answering the question of great interest to me	15:29
mgedmin	writing data to eMMC is very very slow	15:29
mgedmin	although maybe that's because I did it over sshfs over wifi...	15:30
ccooke	mgedmin: took about 2-3 minutes	15:30
mgedmin	I'm just thinking: I transferred 8 gigs of multimedia into my mmc	15:30
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mgedmin	I'm not too keen on repeating that	15:30
lardman\|home	ccooke: thanks	15:30
mgedmin	so I think I'll pass on the eMMC flash	15:30
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mgedmin	it doesn't seem to contain anything interesting anyway	15:30
lardman\|home	also means you lose ~/MyDocs	15:31
lardman\|home	if you flash	15:31
lardman\|home	I think....	15:31
lardman\|home	or is that the other mount?	15:31
mgedmin	do you lose /home too?	15:31
mgedmin	there are three partitions on eMMC: /home, /home/MyDocs, swap	15:31
lardman\|home	ah	15:31
ccooke	you lose all of them	15:31
mgedmin	ext3, vfat, swap	15:31
mgedmin	ok	15:31
mgedmin	the eMMC image is interesting	15:32
mgedmin	if you flasher-3.5 -u it, you get a raw VFAT image	15:32
mgedmin	that weighs ~250 megs, but if you mount -o loop, you see it as a 4 gb filesystem	15:32
mgedmin	the partition itself is 27 gb	15:32
timeless_mbp	so...	15:32
mgedmin	I'm not sure how this all works -- 250 meg image? 4gb loop? 27gb partition?	15:32
timeless_mbp	re ukeyboard	15:32
mgedmin	is the flasher resizing the fs?	15:32
timeless_mbp	i still don't quite understand what it does	15:32
ccooke	mgedmin: the image contains a lot of empty space.	15:33
timeless_mbp	but i think it's safe to say that "no, this was not at all fixed by Nokia, and is still totally broken"	15:33
* lardman\|home crosses fingers and hopes he's backed everything up		15:33
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ccooke	timeless_mbp: what's broken?	15:33
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timeless_mbp	ccooke: the fact that ukeyboard has to actually replace the text input control panel	15:34
mgedmin	ccooke, but it's not a sparse file, ls -l shows the size of the image being 246950912 bytes	15:34
timeless_mbp	means that maemo doesn't actually support what it wants to do	15:34
timeless_mbp	i'm actually fairly impressed by what it manages to do	15:35
timeless_mbp	it's pretty cool	15:35
timeless_mbp	not perfect, but pretty cool	15:35
* mgedmin still hasn't figured out how to use ukeyboard		15:35
ccooke	mgedmin: filesystem header says it's a 4g fs, there's only data for the first 250M, it gets dumped onto part of a 27Gb FS?	15:35
mgedmin	would be nice if it shipped with a sample layout, and loaded that one by default on startup	15:35
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: open the control panel	15:35
timeless_mbp	open text input	15:35
hrw	mgedmin: by default it uses maemo ones + own ones	15:35
timeless_mbp	the title will say {localized "Text Input"} (ukeyboard)	15:36
mgedmin	timeless_mbp, sorry, I meant the ukeyboard creator, not ukeyboard itself	15:36
timeless_mbp	the menus inside the control panel have extra content	15:36
timeless_mbp	oh	15:36
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: presumably you can apt-get source the ukeyboard package for the sources to their layouts, no? :)	15:37
mgedmin	yeah	15:37
lardman\|home	so the legacy update is to be flashed instead of the one we can download?	15:37
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alterego	It has a built in FM transmitter?	15:39
alterego	The N900? What about reciever?	15:39
lardman\|home	yes to both	15:39
alterego	Nice	15:39
alterego	Shame it doesn't have HDMI out:)	15:40
tekojo	lardman\|home you have an "older" device?	15:40
lardman\|home	tekojo: yes	15:41
tekojo	then you go legacy	15:41
lardman\|home	tekojo: from what I read, I was thinking just the x-loader needed to be flashed, but yeah, I've just flashed the whole thing	15:41
* lardman\|home didn't have much time to read the mails this week		15:41
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alterego	Are there hardware differences between the regional models? (not including the keypad)	15:42
lardman\|home	alterego: no, regional stuff is done in sw	15:43
lardman\|home	afaiu	15:43
alterego	Ah, cool.	15:43
tekojo	alterego no, the keyboard should be it	15:43
alterego	So, in theory I could by a US model and use it in the UK	15:43
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alterego	I just need to reflash it?	15:43
alterego	~buy	15:44
Stskeeps	might be some regulatory stuff	15:44
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lardman\|home	Stskeeps: I thought that was done in the sw/firmware	15:44
alterego	That's what I was thinking,	15:44
Stskeeps	lardman\|home: if flasher updates the CAL area for it, maybe..	15:45
* Stskeeps doesn't actually know		15:45
alterego	Would the CAL area be where provider locks are stored? Because I doubt it in that case ;)	15:45
lardman\|home	yeah, good point	15:45
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* lardman\|home wonders if there are really any problems with restoring settings.....		15:47
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lardman\|home	reinstalling apps for the first time in a long time, I once again curse HAM for not allowing multiple selections, or bg installs	15:55
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tigert	rootsh and apt-get :)	15:57
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lardman\|home	tigert: yeah, but if I want to go down the list and install stuff, a ui is useful	15:58
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alterego	lardman\|home: you could have backed-up a list of installed applications, then supplied that to apt-get ;)	15:59
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lardman\|home	I know, but I was told to do a fresh install ;)	16:00
alterego	You could even create your own debian meta-package	16:00
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alterego	lardman-0.1.deb :P	16:00
lardman\|home	yeah, not very useful for an end user mind you :D	16:00
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alterego	Well, it just has to be an empty project that depends on all the stuff you want ;)	16:00
alterego	s/project/package/	16:01
lardman\|home	I know that, but again, not a very useful thing for an end user	16:01
* lardman\|home also curses the way the list forgets its position, have to install stuff from Z to A not vice versa to reduce scrolling		16:02
Lynoure	and how one can only select one at the time for install	16:03
alterego	IT used to remember position, have they removed that in maemo5 too? ^.^	16:03
Lynoure	the combination is major suckness.	16:03
alterego	:/	16:03
lardman\|home	alterego: yep	16:03
alterego	bug report?	16:03
lardman\|home	alterego: yeah I put one in, I'll look for the #	16:03
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Khertan	Hi ...	16:04
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lardman\|home	hmm, can't seem to find it....	16:04
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Khertan	does someone know why every one and the wiki is saying that maemo summit preproduction device emmc need to be flashed ?	16:05
Khertan	N900 users don't need to reflash the eMMC of their device. If you are reading this it's probably because you got a pre-production device e.g. in the Maemo Summit. If you have a sales unit and you have problems with your eMMC you should contact Nokia Care.	16:05
Khertan	???	16:05
Stskeeps	Khertan: because it should? :P	16:06
alterego	Heh	16:06
Khertan	not really ...	16:06
ccooke	Khertan: because they changed the eMMC between prerelease and release	16:06
Khertan	?	16:06
Khertan	they change ? the content ?	16:06
Shapeshifter	I'm wondering about the latest rumour of nokia shipping n900 by boat from korea. doesn't hardware like this always get shipped by boat to the major continents? >.>	16:06
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Stskeeps	just imagine the horror if the ship sank..	16:07
Stskeeps	:P	16:07
glass_	somalian pirates	16:07
ccooke	Khertan: They changed some low-level stuff that can't be fixed in a seamless update.	16:07
Stskeeps	with 900s	16:07
Khertan	Stskeeps: it was already the case for apple and ipod :	16:07
Stskeeps	n900s	16:07
RST38h	God moving to high seas!	16:07
Shapeshifter	lol	16:07
Khertan	ccooke: oh really ?	16:08
ccooke	Khertan: It's only the pre-release devices that need the update	16:08
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Khertan	ccooke: should i do it ? i've flashed the firmware but not the emmc	16:08
ccooke	I'm not sure what the changes are, but I can think of a few things it might be	16:08
tbf	Khertan: Stskeeps: nokia simply suggests replacing the eMMC because nobody tested of keeping it works	16:08
ccooke	for instance, if they changed the partition sizes a little	16:08
Khertan	tbf: ah ok ...	16:09
Khertan	tbf: thx ...	16:09
Khertan	so i should do it ...	16:09
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Khertan	just in case	16:09
tbf	Khertan: yes, would be better.	16:10
tbf	Khertan: if you flashed it and get trouble, you know for sure that nokia is to blame	16:10
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Khertan	tbf: i ve already flashed it ... and didn't got any problem	16:10
Khertan	by flashed i mean the firmware not the emmc	16:11
lardman\|home	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1148 needs to be reopened for Maemo 5	16:11
povbot	Bug 1148: After successfull installation, app-manager selects the very first installable package	16:11
RST38h	yea	16:11
ccooke	Khertan: What if you have a problem in the future?	16:11
Khertan	ccooke: so i ll blame myself	16:11
ccooke	that's fair :-)	16:12
Khertan	yep	16:12
Khertan	as i didn't follow recommandation	16:12
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ccooke	hmm	16:13
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rzr	hi	16:13
ccooke	ages ago, there was a page on the wiki tracking the bugs that would be fixed in fremantle	16:13
ccooke	(I'm talking late last year sometime, I think - probably not early this)	16:13
ccooke	Can't find the damn thing now, though	16:13
* ccooke is trying to double-check some stuff		16:14
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dneary	GAN900, Ping?	16:15
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lbt_	I noticed the eMMC image had an older version than the other image... why's that?	16:23
lardman\|home	just depends on which week it was made	16:23
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Jaffa	lbt_: eMMC changes less frequently than the s/w	16:24
lbt_	so version is more like "best before" date than "ingredients".... hmm	16:24
Khertan	ouch ... my python script is really long to backup my n900 compare to my n810	16:24
Khertan	32Go VS 2Go	16:25
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lbt_	Jaffa: doesn't the eMMC contain the s/w ?	16:25
lbt_	or do I need to do both ?	16:25
lardman\|home	lbt_: maps	16:25
lardman\|home	sw is in the main flash image	16:25
* lbt_ thought the eMMC was a complete 'disk' image including repartitioning		16:25
Khertan	if i understand flashing is done in two times	16:25
Khertan	so i don't think	16:26
lbt_	Khertan: ah	16:26
lbt_	that is not clear	16:26
Khertan	yep clearly not	16:26
Khertan	but i ll be able to confirm you in 30 minutes	16:26
lbt_	heh	16:26
Khertan	(eta of my backup script)	16:26
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lardman\|home	is HAM developed in git?	16:28
Stskeeps	yes	16:28
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lardman\|home	good	16:29
Khertan	noone have yet compile a git version useable on n900 and garage.maemo.org ?	16:30
lardman\|home	of HAM?	16:30
lbt_	So "Having flashed the eMMC you should now flash your device."	16:30
lardman\|home	yeah	16:30
lardman\|home	bbiab	16:30
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RST38h	AFAIK you do not need to flash eMMC	16:30
RST38h	not this one anyway	16:30
* lbt_ is conflicted		16:31
lbt_	quim said"	16:32
lbt_	but it's very	16:33
lbt_	important for those that got a pre-production device since they will	16:33
lbt_	need to reflash the eMMC in order to get the N900 as it comes out of the	16:33
lbt_	sales box.	16:33
lbt_	is pre-production != summit	16:33
lbt_	so pre-production == fremantle stars	16:33
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wazd	lbt_: wrong)	16:35
ShadowJK	I suspect that it's pre-optification	16:36
lopz	hey :p	16:36
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RST38h	lbt: Well, last fremantle stars eMMC already had /opt and I was told at the summit that I did not need to flash new eMMC	16:38
RST38h	lbt: The new eMMC image is the same time as the summit (41.10)	16:38
HKisd_wrk	hi, I updated the firmware to N900, but now extras-devel won't work, complains that there is no hash entry in Release file. does anyone know how to get it to work?	16:39
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: ^	16:39
* Shapeshifter is a bit bored with waiting.		16:39
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lbt_	RST38h: yes, that's what I noticed	16:40
Shapeshifter	it would be soo interesting to see the position of "your" future device on a map, with GPS ;) That would be wicked.	16:40
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lbt_	so we should reflash eMMC to the same as it is and then flash new fiasco image?	16:40
Shapeshifter	you could watch it for ours, strolling over the indian ocean or the pacific	16:41
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Shapeshifter	*hours	16:41
GeneralAntilles	dneary, pong?	16:41
dneary	GeneralAntilles, So - are you able to come to Barcelona?	16:41
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dneary	GeneralAntilles, You're part of a select group who have actually done stuff to make Maemo docs better :)	16:42
dneary	It'd be great to have you there, if you could make it	16:42
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GeneralAntilles	Not really, and I don't think sponsorship is actually available for non-EU people.	16:42
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waz1	Hi. I love to call my friends and send sms's with my new nokia n900. Also I can check the time just by simply looking at the screen. And if I need to wake up early - I can just set the alarm! I'm Andrew and tthis is MaeVoice.	16:48
RST38h	eeek	16:49
Stskeeps	a	16:49
crashanddie_	guys, where can I download the NSU?	16:49
aSIMULAter	sounds unique	16:49
aSIMULAter	innovative	16:49
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Stskeeps	waz1: to some freerunner users that would be their reason for buying a n900.	16:50
waz1	aSIMULAter: that was the goal :)	16:50
waz1	Stskeeps: sheesh :D	16:50
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waz1	Ohoh! I can interact with the phone by touching the screen itself	16:51
* Shapeshifter needs to grow a fingernail		16:52
waz1	Take that, iphone!	16:52
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RST38h	wazd: Google says Andrew is dead.	16:52
RST38h	Killed in Iraq.	16:52
RST38h	Poor fiferboy, we'll miss you!	16:53
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lardman	re	16:54
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lardman	hmm, /me wonders if 30min is the median level of wasted time expended installing applications using HAM after a clean install.....	16:55
waz1	RST38h: whhat?!	16:56
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waz1	RST38h: what?!!	16:57
RST38h	wazd: do a google search for Andrew Olmsted	16:57
RST38h	you will see	16:57
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Stskeeps	in 2008 :P	16:58
waz1	Dude!	16:58
VDVsx	lol	17:00
waz1	That's not fun!	17:00
waz1	Fuck...	17:00
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waz1	RST38h: damn you)	17:01
* RST38h moos woefully		17:02
VDVsx	btw, Maemo-Barcelona long weekend participants list is now live: http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo-barcelona_long_weekend/ (hurry up :P)	17:02
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waz1	RST38h: seriously, dude! :D	17:03
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* VDVsx thinks waz1 drank to much vodka at lunch :P		17:05
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waz1	VDVsx: what?) Now I am drunk?)	17:06
crashanddie_	gents	17:07
crashanddie_	I need the NSU, can anyone send it to me?	17:07
crashanddie_	I need to update my N900 for the meeting tonight	17:07
VDVsx	crashanddie, just install nokia pc suite	17:07
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VDVsx	or use the flasher	17:07
VDVsx	waz1, ;)	17:07
waz1	crashanddie: girs get hot when they see fresh n900 :D	17:07
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zacky	I see that everyone is talking about this N900 meeting tonight, but what/where is that? is it the barcelona long weekend thing?	17:08
crashanddie_	zacky: no, it's in London	17:08
Stskeeps	london i think	17:08
zacky	anyone got an info url?	17:09
crashanddie_	not really	17:09
crashanddie_	I was asked to join by email	17:09
zacky	ok, so what is it?	17:09
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Moolenaar	anyone who come from Japan	17:10
waz1	Who in the world decided to makee meetings on tuesday? Seriously :)	17:10
vesa	mobile monday, n900 tuesday!	17:10
vesa	or maemo tuesday even	17:10
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VDVsx	zacky, http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/n900meetup/	17:11
waz1	Maeuesday, let's follow community trend :)	17:11
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VDVsx	waz1, did you got a seat for the Moscow meetup ? all booked now	17:13
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waz1	VDVsx: yep	17:13
VDVsx	it's also on a Tuesday, lolol	17:13
zacky	ah, thanks VDVsx.	17:13
waz1	VDVsx: don't need a passport for that :D	17:14
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VDVsx	waz1, ehehe, you never know :P	17:14
waz1	VDVsx: mheheh	17:14
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* waz1 coughs		17:15
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Moolenaar	how about N920?	17:18
Myrtti	plaa	17:18
crashanddie_	stupid nokia, they don't have the NSU on their website yet	17:18
crashanddie_	even though they reference the N900	17:18
Myrtti	Moolenaar: what about it?	17:18
Moolenaar	new device. made by nokia	17:19
Myrtti	Moolenaar: URL or it didn't happen?	17:20
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	17:21
Moolenaar	http://www.pocketables.net/2009/10/nokia-n920-possibly-already-in-the-works.html	17:21
Myrtti	Moolenaar: http://senseapplied.com/index.php/nokia-n920-its-a-hoax/	17:21
Myrtti	Moolenaar: u fail	17:21
frals	:rolleyes:	17:21
Khertan	oups ... does there is a control of device number before flashing ?	17:21
Khertan	as my n810 and my n900 are connected to the pc with usb	17:22
Khertan	i don't know which device was found	17:22
Ronaldo38741	An N810 with Maemo 5, woo	17:22
Khertan	a breaked n810	17:22
Ronaldo38741	Or a bricked N810.. less woo	17:22
rzr	lol @ http://www.cowlark.com/2009-11-15-go/	17:22
Moolenaar	wait	17:23
Moolenaar	http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/10/15/nokia-n920-keyboardless-big-screen-n900-successor-shows-up/	17:23
Myrtti	Moolenaar: did you read the link I gave you?	17:24
frals	:D	17:24
Khertan	ok the n900 reboot	17:24
Khertan	so it found the right device	17:24
* Flandry is back with another random hardware/software question		17:24
Myrtti	Moolenaar: "It all started with Exitus , trying to make a concept touch screen phone and he started with a template ( much like iPhone 3GS ) added the screenshot of Maemo 4 yes MAEMO 4 from Nokia N810 not the latest upcoming MAEMO 6 Harmattan and tweeted it and the whole world was after it ."	17:24
Myrtti	maemo 4. not even maemo 5. maemo 4. or even older.	17:24
Khertan	ouch ... n900 rebooting loop	17:25
Moolenaar	yes. maybe you are right	17:25
Khertan	Moolenaar: not maybe ... sure	17:25
Myrtti	Khertan: you're mixing things up	17:26
SpeedEvil	I, for one, welcome our new Maemo 4 overlords.	17:26
Myrtti	oh, nevermind	17:26
Myrtti	I fail this time	17:26
* Myrtti goes to get more coffee		17:26
Khertan	Myrtti: you are mixing people :)	17:26
SpeedEvil	I wonder how much effort it would be to go from mer to a usable phone platform - for 'Nokla'.	17:27
GeneralAntilles	Myrtti, that's Bora, actually.	17:27
Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: depending on ofono and telepathy-ofono quality	17:28
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Flandry	Given that an app will not be taking advantage of 3D rendering (just compositing), what would be the most eficient way to draw to the display in SDL?	17:28
Flandry	*N900 display	17:28
Moolenaar	ofono? inter and nokia	17:28
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Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: and if they can get proper GLES drivers	17:31
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AndrewFBlack	any changed there useragent on n900 to view iphone pages automaticlly	17:37
Khertan	nope to view iphone mini page	17:37
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Khertan	but i change it to bypass sfr proxy limitation	17:37
Khertan	but for any reason the useragent is reset as each microb reboot	17:37
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Khertan	and microb doesn't seems to use the users.js	17:38
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GAN900	Is 42-11 significantly slower than 41-10 for people?	17:45
GAN900	I can't even get it to stream videos without buffering every 3 seconds.	17:46
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Stskeeps	on the contrary	17:46
GAN900	Interesting	17:47
GAN900	I wonder what's broken here.	17:48
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GAN900	That's cool, too.	17:49
sgbirch	is maemo4 dead now or can we expect more releases?	17:50
Stskeeps	signs that N900 has gotten something right: a apple freak from my former uni who's waiting for his N900	17:50
Stskeeps	sgbirch: there's a community SSU effort	17:51
sgbirch	SSU ?	17:51
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Stskeeps	seamless software update	17:51
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sp3000	jeremiah: ping? extras-devel needs a reindex or whatever, no hash in packages or no packages in hash or whatever ...the usual :)	17:53
sgbirch	Stskeeps: got it.. thx	17:54
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smackpotato	im having trouble mounting a ramdrive	18:01
smackpotato	http://pastebin.com/m58435a53	18:01
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crashanddie_	GAN900: your interwebs	18:03
crashanddie_	GAN900: stop microwaving those nachos	18:03
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crashanddie_	GAN900: maybe you can help me, tell me where I can get NSU	18:03
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alterego	The Nseries site crashanddie_	18:04
Stskeeps	http://wiki.omap.com/index.php/ETechDays_Community_Lightning_Talks is happening right now if anyone is interested	18:05
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alterego	Nice	18:05
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crashanddie_	alterego: where then?	18:05
alterego	Oh, I must remember to download the last.fm, facebook, twitter thin g on xbox tonight.	18:06
alterego	It's part of PC suite	18:07
sgbirch	It looks like the n900 is generating a ton more interest than the n810. Hopefully the maemo community will expand as a result	18:07
Stskeeps	it has, some claim to the worse; )	18:07
alterego	Heh	18:07
sgbirch	Stskeeps: the unwashed masses!	18:08
sgbirch	Stskeeps: My only observation is that the number of upgrades pushed out seems to be quite low	18:08
Stskeeps	for n810 yeah	18:09
mgedmin	smackpotato, that's not how you mount tmpfs	18:09
sgbirch	Stskeeps: at the application level, I mean. Compared to (say) debian or ubuntu.	18:09
Stskeeps	ah	18:09
mgedmin	smackpotato, if you really want a fixed-size ramdisk, mount -t ext2 /dev/ram1	18:09
mgedmin	smackpotato, if you want tmpfs, you don't need to muck with /dev/ramX at all	18:09
wazd	finally at home	18:10
suihkulokki	The eternal september of maemo =)	18:10
sgbirch	Stskeeps: My worry is that the real appeal of the n900 is the potential.	18:10
mgedmin	smackpotato, the difference is that tmpfs grows and shrinks automatically depending on content; ramdisk is fixed size	18:10
mgedmin	nobody uses ramdisks anymore really	18:10
hrw	mgedmin: no one on ARM	18:11
hrw	mgedmin: I use initrd on my laptop	18:11
mgedmin	hrw, /dev/ramX is not the same thing as initrd/initramfs	18:11
hrw	ok	18:12
sgbirch	Stskeeps: It sure is a nice device, and fantastic work has been done. But the potential is absolutely incredible.	18:12
crashanddie_	lardman, Jaffa: You guys going to talk about something specific?	18:12
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sgbirch	crashanddie_: how about this ... is there a definitive answer on turn-by-turn navigation, will it have it?	18:13
lardman	crashanddie_: talk?	18:14
cosmo	does autobuilder update its debs from extras or extras-dev (fremantle?)	18:14
crashanddie_	sgbirch: and you are asking me because?	18:14
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sgbirch	crashanddie_: you are as good as anyone	18:15
cosmo	uploading to extras wiki page says "After the autobuilder builds a package, it will be available in Extras-Devel. " but afaik there is some delay before it's available for autobuilder	18:15
crashanddie_	sgbirch: actually, I'm better than most, but still, I don't see why the question was directed toward me	18:15
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alterego	cosmo, there's a queue for the auto-builder,.	18:15
GAN900	crashanddie_, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	18:15
Flandry	i think it must use packages from extras-dev if they are available	18:16
cosmo	alterego: you mean before or after it? my package went already through autobuilder ok	18:16
alterego	Then it should be in extras-devel now.	18:16
Flandry	sorry, are you talking about build dependencies?	18:16
alterego	Ah	18:17
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crashanddie_	GAN900: thanks, got the flasher?	18:17
sgbirch	crashanddie_:I was just responding to the comment about those guys talking about something specific.	18:17
crashanddie_	sgbirch: ah, I see	18:17
sgbirch	crashanddie_: It was half a joke .. but the question is a good one	18:17
pupnik	i am getting good battery life on n900 with surfing and mÃedia playbck	18:17
GAN900	crashanddie_, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	18:17
lardman	crashanddie_: what are you talking about talking about something?	18:17
GAN900	sgbirch, Sygic announced a port.	18:18
crashanddie_	lardman: tonight? You're not going to give a little speech?	18:18
lardman	?	18:18
sgbirch	crashanddie_: I guess it was ok as an add in, but it looks like google will add it	18:18
GAN900	lol	18:18
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lardman	to my wife....?	18:18
crashanddie_	lardman: you not at the meetup tonight?	18:18
GAN900	crashanddie_, not that he knows of, it seems. ;)	18:18
lardman	what meetup?	18:18
GAN900	Ha	18:18
Flandry	lol	18:18
crashanddie_	lardman: you willy wanker	18:18
* GAN900 throws a cluebat at lardman.		18:19
crashanddie_	lardman: there's a meetup tonight in London	18:19
lardman	ah, news to me	18:19
wjt	so. who is going?	18:19
crashanddie_	lardman: people have been talking about it for weeks?	18:19
crashanddie_	lardman: get the feck out of your cave, batman	18:19
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cosmo	the autobuilder is really slow, or i'm missing some mails.. pretty confusing	18:19
sgbirch	crashanddie_: I didnt get an invite ... is it too late?	18:19
lardman	crashanddie_: I've not been paying much attention to irc in case you'd not noticed, been ill, then painting my flat	18:19
Myrtti	I wish I was	18:19
GAN900	alterego, it mostly just manages to clutter things up.	18:19
Myrtti	I wish I was going to Barcelona too	18:19
crashanddie_	lardman: if it was the other way around, I would've said the paint made you ill	18:19
Khertan	Does there is something about key shortcut in the maemo hildon guidelines ?	18:20
sgbirch	crashanddie_: I called the London store and they knew nothing about ut	18:20
lardman	yeah	18:20
cosmo	i got the package through diablo builder but for fremantle i still haven't got reply mail although i submitted the package at the same time	18:20
Flandry	why does he need to get out of his cave? He just uses everyone's N900s for echolocation...	18:20
crashanddie_	lardman: what happened?	18:20
crashanddie_	lardman: were you that sick you had to paint the flat?	18:20
lardman	nah, not feeling too hot for a week, then busy at work, then moving stuff out of flat to allow painting, then doing the painting	18:20
crashanddie_	sgbirch: there was a website, you had to subscribe	18:20
sgbirch	crashanddie_: was it taken down?	18:21
crashanddie_	lardman: because it really sounded like you were sick all over the walls for a second there :P	18:21
GAN900	lol	18:21
crashanddie_	sgbirch: only 80 seats or something	18:21
lardman	no no! :D	18:21
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GAN900	Mr. Creosote?	18:22
sgbirch	crashanddie_: They think they only have 80 fans!!!	18:22
crashanddie_	sgbirch: no, they only want 80 people, there will be drinks or something	18:22
crashanddie_	sgbirch: they've done the same in Helsinki, Moscow, etc	18:23
lardman	never mind, school night anyway, so probably wouldn't have been able to make it, tho my wife is in London tomorrow iirc	18:23
crashanddie_	sgbirch: tbh, I'm just going because I've been asked to go, and I'll probably return my N900 at the same time	18:23
GAN900	Return?	18:23
sgbirch	crashanddie_:why are you returning it?	18:23
Myrtti	ohai sgbirch	18:24
crashanddie_	well, moving to Oz and all, it's not like it'll be easy to return it later on	18:24
lardman	you're moving?	18:24
GAN900	Airmail	18:24
lardman	again, news to me	18:24
crashanddie_	lardman: yeah	18:24
lardman	where to?	18:24
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crashanddie_	lardman: news to nearly everyone, going to Brisbane	18:24
sgbirch	crashanddie_:oh .. cool	18:24
crashanddie_	fag break, see ya in a bit	18:24
lardman	crashanddie_: cool, or rather, warm :)	18:24
Flandry	intercontinental slang collisions are an endless source of amusement	18:25
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crashanddie_	Flandry: no, you just need to start learning real English a bit more or speak with more foreigners	18:26
crashanddie_	lardman: PM	18:26
GAN900	What, he's not taking a break to ride his Harley?	18:26
Flandry	yeah, his "Harley"	18:26
GAN900	/South Park	18:27
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Flandry	crashanddie: I used to say that everything i need to know in life, i learned from the English translation of Tintin. Wait for it...	18:27
cosmo	alterego: yep, at least on diablo builder the package that went through is not available for autobuilder yet	18:28
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cosmo	..and same for fremantle	18:29
Flandry	never learned proper usage of those colloquialisms though :D	18:29
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Jaffa	crashanddie_: I'm probably going to aim to get to the hotel about 18:30ish, got a room so going to change (and can stay out on the lash ;-))	18:48
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crashanddie_	Jaffa: haha, awesome	18:51
crashanddie_	so we have a room to trash	18:51
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lardman	bbl	18:59
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crashanddie_	ttfn	18:59
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CoreFusion-	I heard rumours that the finnish Nokia Shop would start shipping this friday	19:03
sgbirch	I called the London shop and they didnt have a clue	19:04
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sgbirch	They also didnt know about the meeting tonight	19:05
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CoreFusion-	lol	19:05
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CoreFusion-	gj from them then :)	19:05
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lbt_	Jaffa: re ohmd	19:05
crashanddie_	that's because really, Maemo is a cover story for the Renegade Freemasons Alliance	19:05
Flyser	which meeting?	19:05
lbt_	IIRC it was designed as a very low level policy manger	19:06
SpeedEvil	To quote nokia.co.uk 'This order has not shipped.'	19:06
lbt_	nothing important.... just thermal throttling the CPU	19:06
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lbt_	can't see any problems using stop ohmd.... <-- sarcasm ;)	19:06
crashanddie_	we're an obscure society membered of doctors, various PhDs and freethinkers, we want to impose our opinion and challenge status quo	19:07
lbt_	Nb Nokia may not be using it for this purpose	19:07
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kirma	nokia shop says that they start N900 preorder deliveries in Finland on friday, some potentially getting it already then... and preorders should be delivered everywhere in the country in a week	19:09
kirma	I'm almost certain I'll miss my delivery if they refuse to change the shipping address to work...	19:10
CoreFusion-	Nokia is trying to get pre-orders delivered during next week. (at least in Finland)	19:11
kirma	shipping practically between 9am and 5pm, of course.	19:11
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CoreFusion-	kirma, i'm sure it's possible to change the shipping adress but they might make you pay extra for that :P	19:15
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Xisdibik	crashanddie: you had me all excited until i realized you were joking :(	19:19
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tga	howdy	19:20
CoreFusion-	hi	19:20
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lardman	re	19:21
CoreFusion-	WELCOME!	19:21
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* tga is looking for a way to schedule a job to run at certain times		19:22
yuizy	use libalarm	19:23
tga	any client for that?	19:23
ShadowJK	kirma, iirc my SmartQ7 came with UPS too, and the UPS guy had left it outside my kitchen	19:23
ShadowJK	(I was sound asleep having worked nights that week)	19:24
* ShadowJK lives in the countryside and doesn't lock his door..		19:24
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kirma	considering I live in apartment building with exterior door locked, I'd say it's rather unlikely it'd be left there...	19:24
tga	yuizy: I've been trying to figure out how to use alarmd but I can't find any straightforward documentation	19:24
yuizy	i'm not sure	19:24
yuizy	you want to run a single command?	19:25
* Xisdibik goes over to ShadowJK's for breakfast		19:25
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ShadowJK	make enough for two	19:25
tga	yuizy: yeah, mostly morning alarm stuff for now	19:25
kirma	I constantly get surprised that I order stuff to my home address with express shipping when I really should make orders to work	19:26
Xisdibik	ShadowJK: only if you like Swedish Pancakes	19:26
Xisdibik	morning GeneralAntilles	19:26
Xisdibik	well i guess afternoon for you now	19:26
* tga was impressed by a H2 today		19:26
tga	now if only I can get maemo on that hardware for a decent price	19:27
* GeneralAntilles mutters evil things about kernel panics.		19:27
yuizy	tga: i used these examples http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Alarm_Framework	19:27
GeneralAntilles	tga, Maemo comes on the N900.	19:27
wazd	Hi. With brand new n900 I can add numbers of my friends to the address book and each time they will call me - I will see name instead of number. And it has color screen too! I'm Andrew, and this is MaeVoice.	19:27
GeneralAntilles	You're not going to get "Maemo" on much else.	19:28
tga	I know, a bit out of my budget range atm	19:28
GeneralAntilles	tga, give it 6 months.	19:28
tga	well, Mer, whatever	19:28
GeneralAntilles	wazd, why are you making fun of MaeVoice?	19:28
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tga	yuizy: thanks, wtf @ C programming though	19:28
tga	I just need a crontab, not an API	19:29
GeneralAntilles	cron isn't battery friendly	19:29
tga	notice I said crontab, not cron :)	19:29
wazd	GeneralAntilles: because I can :D	19:29
tga	for what I need, I wouldn't even mind starting cron when I plug in	19:29
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wazd	GeneralAntilles: Ah, i'm not making fun of it in fact, that's a nice move if used wisely	19:30
GeneralAntilles	Gotta love it when ClearType screws up screenshotted tables: http://www.cnet.co.uk/i/c/blg/cat/mobiles/mobilebrowsertesttable.jpg	19:31
GeneralAntilles	Fail.	19:31
wazd	GeneralAntilles: I was just amused by Tim's part when he says that it's amazing how music over a2dp stops when somebody calls :)	19:31
* GeneralAntilles stabs subpixel to death.		19:32
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Jaffa	lbt_: Yeah, Eero's just said that. Seems to be conflating various tasks into random "let's shove something in to make it better"	19:36
crashanddie_	wazd: that's the "Awesome camera" effect	19:36
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Jaffa	tga: GeneralAntilles: Looking at a typical cron implementation, there's no reason why it'd be battery unfriendly. Doesn't give you the "switch the device on, if off, when this alarm goes off"	19:37
wazd	crashanddie: I knew that! :D	19:37
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tga	Jaffa: regular cron doesn't give you that option either, it's alright	19:38
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wazd	Seriously, n900 gives such an endless possibilities and people are stuck to the color screen and phonebook	19:38
CoreFusion-	wazd: well what would be the über idea then?	19:39
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wazd	CoreFusion-: I can download latest "Lie to me" episode and watch it right onthe device while lazing on the beach	19:40
wazd	CoreFusion-: that's the power! :D	19:40
frals	ah, should watch that today	19:40
tga	I'll go for enhanced reality	19:40
frals	thanks for reminding me! :D	19:40
greenfly	for me it's the fact that I can respond to a production emergency at work without having to lug around my laptop	19:40
wazd	frals: yw :)	19:40
SpeedEvil	Enhanced reality.	19:40
tga	seems to be the thing nowadays	19:40
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SpeedEvil	Got any people in your phonebook with annoyingly squeaky voices?	19:40
SpeedEvil	Pitch-shift them automatically.	19:41
tga	that would actually be easy	19:41
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wazd	I can connect to my laptop at work and trick my boss while hanging out with my GF	19:41
Xisdibik	its all fun and games SpeedEvil until your mom finds out you made her sound like a truck driver dude	19:41
* crashanddie_ would like to announce what his company is working on tonight		19:41
SpeedEvil	Xisdibik: :)	19:41
crashanddie_	but would get sacked before the night is over	19:41
GeneralAntilles	Ah, finally fixed font rendering in Snow Leopard.	19:42
GeneralAntilles	Stupid Apple.	19:42
tga	secrecy is overrated	19:42
Xisdibik	congratz GeneralAntilles	19:42
derf	Employment, however, is not.	19:42
wazd	GeneralAntilles: lol, Jobs claimed that he's a god of the Fonts	19:42
tga	well actually..	19:42
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wazd	and god of everything shown on the screen eventually :)	19:43
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GeneralAntilles	wazd, Windows font rendering makes my eyes bleed.	19:43
GeneralAntilles	It's a configuration issue with 3rd-party LCDs.	19:44
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* RST38h claims the same about Linux font rendering		19:44
RST38h	Windows is actually ok, well, for some fonts :)	19:44
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, configurable, depends on your configuration.	19:44
GeneralAntilles	I can make Linux look like Windows or OS X.	19:44
tga	from afar maybe	19:45
derf	Linux font rendering at least has an excuse: a number of the techniques are patented.	19:45
GeneralAntilles	Close enough to OS X that my eyes aren't bleeding, anyway.	19:45
pupnik	how many apps do you end up running on n900? for me usually 6-12 windows	19:45
wazd	GeneralAntilles: haha, you're too used to that OSX soap render :)	19:45
derf	Though I think a few of the important ones just expired or are expiring soon.	19:45
derf	So that excuse will soon be gone.	19:46
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GeneralAntilles	wazd, I'm used to on-screen text looking closer to print.	19:46
GeneralAntilles	I can hardly focus on ClearType.	19:46
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wazd	GeneralAntilles: I really hate that OSX soapy render, Better stick with sharp win fonts	19:48
smackpotat	anyone have any tips on mounting a ramdrive	19:48
greenfly	smackpotat: what are you trying to do?	19:48
smackpotat	i always get failed	19:48
GeneralAntilles	wazd, ew.	19:48
* mgedmin looooves linux subpixel font rendering		19:48
woglinde	smackpotat read kernel doc about ramdisk	19:48
greenfly	smackpotat: I mean, what are you trying to accomplish with a ramdisk?	19:48
mgedmin	and now let's discuss which vegetables are best	19:49
mgedmin	death to tomatoes!	19:49
woglinde	tomatoes are fine	19:49
CoreFusion-	pizza?	19:49
smackpotat	i want to put .mozilla/microb in ram	19:49
woglinde	there are serval different sorts	19:49
GeneralAntilles	wazd, "sharp", i.e., "let's kill the character shapes"	19:49
woglinde	in color too	19:49
greenfly	smackpotat: why?	19:49
woglinde	from green to violet	19:49
wazd	GeneralAntilles: yep, let's kill, if it's easier to read :)	19:50
smackpotat	just an experment see if i can get any extra speed	19:50
greenfly	you won't	19:50
greenfly	because Linux already does it for you	19:50
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GeneralAntilles	wazd, it's what you're used to.	19:50
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wazd	GeneralAntilles: glad you've got the point :)	19:50
greenfly	smackpotat: every time you read a file, Linux copies it to RAM and if it has enough RAM, tries to keep it there	19:50
smackpotat	why not greenfly	19:50
GeneralAntilles	wazd, but that still doesn't change the fact that Windows' rendering is incorrect. ;)	19:50
greenfly	so the first time you load the files in that directory, it will already be in RAM and unless you max out your RAM, it should stay there	19:51
greenfly	so basically, Linux will handle the ramdisk more efficiently than you will be able to	19:51
wazd	GeneralAntilles: every rendering is "incorrect"	19:51
smackpotat	there are databases there that aRT CACHED	19:51
greenfly	and also will automatically make sure that changes are written to disk, etc.	19:51
smackpotat	sorry	19:51
wazd	GeneralAntilles: you can't make font look like printed one, not today	19:51
aep	smackpotat: i do it with tmpfs. quite easy. not sure if that'll work on the default kernel	19:51
wazd	GeneralAntilles: maybe someday, yes, but not today	19:51
greenfly	again, the Linux file cache is more efficient and better than you will be	19:52
mgedmin	some of today's devices are approaching 300 dpi	19:52
tga	does anyone happen to know a working cron?	19:52
greenfly	so no need to reinvent it with a clumsy ramdisk	19:52
wazd	GeneralAntilles: everything else doesn't really matters much	19:52
mgedmin	I remember when laser printers were 300 dpi	19:52
fwrnando	you know what they say, fonts will only be perfectly rendered once we get hexagonal pixels	19:52
tga	all I found were dead links	19:52
smackpotat	ok as i said its just an experment more for my education than anything	19:52
greenfly	smackpotat: next time you are in front of a command line, type 'free'	19:53
smackpotat	cool	19:53
tga	do you get a free application?	19:53
greenfly	the value under the "cached" column is how many kilobytes Linux is already caching in RAM	19:53
greenfly	over time the value under "free" column should get close to zero and it will appear that all your RAM is used	19:53
greenfly	but it isn't, when an app needs RAM, Linux just borrows from the file cache	19:53
greenfly	again, more efficient use of your RAM without hard-coding, you know, 50Mb or whatever that nothing else can use if it needs it	19:54
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aep	greenfly: i'm not sure if the maemo ff is still the default ff, but that one calls flush() after each write.	19:54
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greenfly	aep: how would that affect this?	19:55
aep	you cant cache that	19:55
greenfly	we aren't talking about caching writes	19:55
aep	a ramdisk fixes it	19:55
greenfly	but caching reads	19:55
aep	you were	19:55
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aep	ooh. well who cares about reads...	19:55
smackpotat	i set the cache to writeback and it speeded microb up plenty	19:55
greenfly	the file system drivers take care of caching writes anyway	19:55
aep	flush mans flush. no caching	19:55
greenfly	aep: so it's more efficient to run an rsync every now and then to flush your ramdisk to disk?	19:56
smackpotat	the problem is with microb's use of sqlight	19:56
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smackpotat	sqlite	19:56
aep	greenfly: if you have programs like ff that call flush() in a busy loop, yes	19:56
aep	not sure if they fixed it, i went away from it after chromium was released	19:57
greenfly	shrug sounds like a lost of extra effort to me for little if any gain	19:57
greenfly	like all those ricers who overclock their gaming rigs	19:57
aep	its a huge gain on devices with small I/O	19:57
aep	its usable vs unusable	19:57
aep	i'm quite certain that bug isnt present on mameo though	19:57
aep	alot of people would have noticed	19:58
greenfly	I dunno, I'm not seeing any major issues on the n900 with that	19:58
greenfly	browsing doesn't seem like it's lagging because it's waiting on IO	19:58
smackpotat	yes it is a lot of extra time i say "why kill yourself when you can kill time"	19:58
greenfly	at least, not disk IO :)	19:58
aep	smackpotat: well go ahead try it,.. at least you'll learn how to fix it when it becomes an actual problem	19:59
aep	smackpotat: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=991205	19:59
aep	(not my setup, google returned that)	19:59
greenfly	in any case, I just bring it up because in my experience people who talk about setting up ramdisks on Linux are unaware of the systems already in place	19:59
smackpotat	asa re green says "if it at broke you arn't trying"	20:00
aep	oh well, you'll certainly will get nothing from read caches, thats true	20:00
smackpotat	thanks for the link	20:00
lardman	is it sampo who wrote ecoach?	20:00
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smackpotato	http://pastebin.com/m58435a53	20:03
amaurymedeiros	Hello	20:03
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amaurymedeiros	Does anyone know how hildon-application-manager lists the Installable packages?	20:04
andre__	amaurymedeiros, technically? or sorting?	20:04
amaurymedeiros	andre__, technically	20:04
lardman	it lists what is in the Packages file minus what's already installed	20:04
smackpotat	this is what gos wrong when i try to mount a random ramdisk	20:04
amaurymedeiros	I found how it lists the installed packages..	20:04
amaurymedeiros	with dpkg-query...	20:05
lardman	smackpotat: does the mount point exist?	20:05
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lardman	smackpotat: otherwise, I imagine mount is provided by busybox, so may be missing options	20:06
smackpotat	yes whit mkdir	20:06
lardman	smackpotat: or, there's no tmpfs driver available...?	20:06
smackpotat	i think there is but i dont know what to do with it	20:06
smackpotat	maybenot	20:07
aep	umm	20:08
aep	why the hell are you creating something on disk	20:09
aep	i thought you wanted a RAM disk	20:09
smackpotat	i do	20:10
mgedmin	smackpotato, heh, the mountpoint you mkdir'ed is called 'ramdrive0', but the mountpoint you specified on your mount command line is called 'ramdisk0'	20:10
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mgedmin	nevertheless I continue to say that ramdisks are a Bad Idea and that you want to mount -t tmpfs none /home/user/ramdrive0	20:10
mzz	smackpotat: notice tmpfs doesn't actually use /dev/ram* (the "device" argument to mount is ignored)	20:10
mgedmin	without any of that silly dd/mkfs stuff	20:10
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mzz	smackpotat: assuming tmpfs works at all, something like "mount -t tmpfs strawberries /mnt/point" will work	20:11
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smackpotat	tx mgedmin	20:11
mgedmin	no need to assume, /etc/init.d/rcS creates several tmpfs mounts	20:11
mgedmin	on a n900	20:11
mzz	and yes, tmpfs usually works these days, if only because it's used for /dev/	20:12
amaurymedeiros	Does the hildon app manager uses dpkg to list INSTALLABLE packages?	20:13
mgedmin	hildon app manager's sources are out there	20:14
mgedmin	http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager	20:14
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amaurymedeiros	I've already downloaded the source and searched a lot, but I found only how it lists INSTALLED packages. Now I need to find how it works with INSTALLABLE ones.	20:16
amaurymedeiros	:(	20:16
dmj726	hi zaheerm	20:16
zaheerm	dmj726, h, sorry in meeting	20:16
dmj726	ok	20:16
dmj726	What's up with zope.interface?	20:16
dmj726	all I want to know	20:17
mgedmin	amaurymedeiros, http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/blobs/master/src/apt-worker.cc#line2841	20:17
mgedmin	"only_available" is what you want, I believe	20:17
Flandry	i thought app manager was one of the closed Nokia apps	20:18
GeneralAntilles	Flandry, it's been open source since 2005. :)	20:18
Flandry	maybe the weirdly narrow text columns in the description can be fixed then	20:18
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mgedmin	I want http://isitaclosednokiaapp.com	20:18
GeneralAntilles	Flandry, they'd welcome patches.	20:18
Flandry	k thx	20:19
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pupnik	my ram is unstable	20:21
amaurymedeiros	Thanks, mgedmin.. I will try this :]	20:21
pupnik	anyone built advmame yet? command-line ver?	20:21
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Flandry	no but i was looking into a mame port	20:22
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Flandry	the maintainer of SDLMAME is going to target pandora, so it might be an easy port with GL ES support	20:22
pupnik	wooot	20:23
pupnik	woot woot woot	20:23
jeremiah_	sp3000: Thanks - I'll do that.	20:23
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jeremiah_	sp3000: Garage has been uber-flaky :(	20:24
Flandry	http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=206713	20:24
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Flandry	i plan on working on it, anyway	20:25
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RST38h	Flandry: You want mame4all btw	20:27
RST38h	Flandry: It is kinda outdated and kinda limited, but it is your best bet as far as ARM-based portables are concerned	20:28
Flandry	perhaps that will be a better option, but if a specific pandora target shows up in current SDLMAME, it will be a pretty good option as well	20:32
Flandry	anyway i'm just starting to dig into it	20:32
RST38h	Well, the difference will be the choice of CPU emulators	20:33
RST38h	mame4all is known to use ARM-optimized CPU cores like Cyclone. Not sure about generic SDLMAME, even if it has Pandora target	20:33
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VDVsx	does anyone tried to use the new sbox installer ?	20:35
pupnik	i will when my pc is stable	20:35
pupnik	i would like a network activity monitor like load monitor applet. ine bar up, one bar down. scaled to max up/down bandwidth measured	20:36
VDVsx	not working in my ubuntu 9.04, hangs when needs to download the packages :(	20:37
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wazd	damn, how can a user make 400 posts in 1 month? :D	20:43
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CoreFusion-	addiction?	20:43
wazd	I've made 411 in like 2 years :)	20:43
jeremiah_	diahrrea of the keyboard?	20:43
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RST38h	that is only 12 a day or so	20:44
jeremiah_	Yeah, 12 a day is low for talk	20:44
RST38h	if you do not read, only write, like a lot of people, it is quite possible	20:44
jeremiah_	I can't even read 12 a day	20:44
RST38h	jeremiah: as I said, reading is not an issue	20:44
jeremiah_	heh	20:44
jeremiah_	So true, so true.	20:44
Flandry	ah "One of the big speed bumps in MAME history occured at 0.53 - when video went to 16-bit only. Before that MAME would use either an 8-bit or 16-bit.	20:45
Flandry	This is one good reason why handhelds tend to have versions of MAME before 0.53.	20:45
Flandry	ie. MAME4ALL uses 0.37b5 and previous to that used 0.34.	20:45
wazd	N900 shipping delayed (3,469) <- ah, never mind :D	20:45
jeremiah_	I CAN HAZ NEW google-chrom?	20:45
jeremiah_	I CAN!	20:45
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RST38h	Flandry: Mame4all still has 8bit support	20:46
RST38h	but for maemo you do not really want 8bit	20:47
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Flandry	Right	20:47
Flandry	The old OS2008 xmame port was version 0.58	20:47
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wazd	but the increasing amount of stupidity and animosity I've witnessed here since November started is truly ludicrous...	20:48
wazd	\| Joined on Sep 2009	20:48
wazd	I'll better stay with IRC :D	20:49
Flandry	wazd: it's a plot by Google to undermine Maemo...	20:49
dmj7262	Yeah, there's a lot of effort put into crazy complaining and silly, pointless speculation.	20:49
RST38h	No, just the Tentacled One breeding his dinner...	20:50
CoreFusion-	LOL: from t.m.o = My advice to would be buyers is hold off and get it cheaper from play.com - that'll teach em	20:50
CoreFusion-	"that'll teach em"	20:50
RST38h	teach whom?	20:50
CoreFusion-	hahaha	20:50
CoreFusion-	that was about pre-orders direct from Nokia	20:50
CoreFusion-	Like buying from another source would somehow not benefit Nokia..	20:51
dmj7262	I'd rather just get busy making the platform as application rich as possible	20:51
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RST38h	dmj7262: You are not getting it	20:51
RST38h	dmj7262: The place has now filled up with geeks who can't write a single line of code but think they know everything about technology, based mostly on their gadget habits	20:52
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wazd	let's make closed section for "cool dudes" only :D	20:53
RST38h	dmj7262: Hence we are now getting all these "We should make <xxxx> for Maemo"	20:53
frals	agreed (sept 09 ftw, right? ;))	20:53
dmj7262	Yeah, I can't write just one line either	20:53
jeremiah_	I'M IN UR N9OO FIXIN' UR MALE KLIENT	20:53
RST38h	dmj7262: To which I have now started answering "No problem, download the SDK and start coding"	20:53
VDVsx	<ifart>	20:53
RST38h	dmj7262: "Can't code? Then stop whining."	20:54
jeremiah_	Does the N900 support ASP?	20:54
RST38h	Then there is a separate kind of messages of the type "I think Nokia should ..."	20:54
dmj7262	keyword just one	20:54
lardman	jeremiah_: !	20:54
lardman	jeremiah_: Just the man	20:54
jeremiah_	ehlo lardman!	20:54
lardman	let me dig out that supersized tarball for you....	20:54
dmj7262	I sometimes make we should have... suggestions because I don't have the time for everything I think of.	20:55
jeremiah_	I missed you yesterday	20:55
lardman	same here	20:55
lardman	;)	20:55
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jeremiah_	Oh, was it me who wasn't here?	20:55
jeremiah_	It may have been =]	20:55
lardman	nah, I think it was me actually	20:55
jeremiah_	okay	20:55
lardman	long day, couldn't be arsed to boot the computer, etc	20:55
jeremiah_	heh	20:55
jeremiah_	I spent the entire evening / night on garage	20:56
jeremiah_	Trying to get diablo to move built packages to their little nests in the repos	20:56
RST38h	jeremiah: still 10-vote threshold for extras promotion though?	20:56
lardman	ah, the famous diablo problem	20:56
jeremiah_	RST38h: I'm hesitant to hack the code without talking with Xfade first	20:57
jeremiah_	I mean, he has written a lot of it	20:57
RST38h	but the guy isn't coming back any time soon =)	20:57
jeremiah_	Yeah he is	20:57
lardman	hm, 60k files in my build dir	20:58
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jeremiah_	That's all?	20:58
lardman	I do have 4 sb installations ;)	20:58
lardman	this one has been going for only a month	20:58
jeremiah_	yowza	20:59
lardman	not all in the root, in sub dirs too!	20:59
lardman	I'll try uploading pocketsphinx one last time, and if it won't go, I'll stick it on my website for you to peruse	20:59
RST38h	What is it? =)	21:00
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lardman	voice recognition	21:00
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RST38h	aha, speech recognition! and you have compiled flite too!	21:00
lardman	yeah, flite is in extras-devel now	21:00
lardman	http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/pocketsphinx/	21:00
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jeremiah_	lardman: Right-o	21:00
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dmj7262	Is the phone app open source?	21:01
lardman	RST38h: but only for fremantle atm, should work for diablo too though I imagine, but will prob need vfp flags in rules	21:01
lardman	and I couldn't be arsed to change targets and test tbh	21:02
* RST38h remembers to recompile newest vrsions of his stuff for diablo		21:02
lardman	I do, just takes a few days extra	21:02
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lardman	after I upload mbarcode I'll do some diablo hacking	21:03
philn-tp	hi there	21:03
lardman	in preparation for the sometime-coming pvr drivers	21:03
philn-tp	i am looking for gst pkgs with gst-debug enabled	21:04
lardman	philn-tp: recompile	21:04
lardman	I imagine	21:04
philn-tp	oh boy	21:04
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lardman	philn-tp: should be easy, just apt-get source and alter the rules file	21:04
jeremiah_	Yeah, a lot of libs and other stuff often come with debug packages.	21:05
lardman	hmm, still "Sending request to garage.maemo.org..."	21:05
lardman	not a good sign	21:05
jeremiah_	philn-tp: You may be able to pull a debugging package down from upstream	21:05
philn-tp	bah.. i guess i'll recompile	21:06
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lardman	jeremiah:	21:06
lardman	Maemo Extras Assistant	21:06
lardman	Step 4: check uploaded files	21:06
lardman	Checking your files:	21:06
lardman	File upload error. (tar file) Please try to upload your packages again!	21:06
jeremiah_	okay	21:06
jeremiah_	There we have it.	21:06
lardman	I'll stick them on my website and give you an url	21:06
jeremiah_	k	21:06
lardman	oh, you reckon it's a real error?	21:07
jeremiah_	I suspect it is just blocking because you have hit some arbirary limit	21:07
Flandry	i gave up and used scp for the 130 MB game data package upload	21:07
jeremiah_	Which I would guess is 20 Megs	21:07
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jeremiah_	not megs,	21:08
jeremiah_	Actually, perhaps they have put this in php.ini or somethign	21:08
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jeremiah_	Looks like its 50 Megs	21:10
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lardman	nah, works for me, is a false error	21:14
* lardman hopes his website has enough space for ~30Mb of extra data		21:14
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lardman\|home	~ping	21:15
infobot	~pong	21:15
lardman\|home	ah, much better	21:15
lardman\|home	is here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/pocketsphinx/	21:15
jeremiah_	okay	21:15
lardman\|home	needs optification if anyone fancies it	21:15
jeremiah_	What am I looking for, a deb?	21:15
jeremiah_	Or a tarball?	21:16
lardman\|home	otherwise I'll get round to it eventually	21:16
jeremiah_	Ah, the whole kit	21:16
jeremiah_	Cool	21:16
lardman\|home	all the debian stuff, .tar.gz + .dsc + .changes	21:16
lardman\|home	;)	21:16
jeremiah_	yup	21:16
lardman\|home	I'm learning, gradually....	21:16
* jeremiah_ goes to slurp packages		21:17
philn-tp	ok so i recompiled gst and now can use GST_DEBUG ;)	21:17
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philn-tp	but a simple gst-launch audiotestsrc ! autoaudiosink fails .. to connect to pulseaudio	21:17
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lardman\|home	does it work normally?	21:18
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jeremiah_	lardman\|home: uploaded and placed in fremantle	21:20
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johnsq	Hi	21:20
lardman\|home	jeremiah: extras-devel?	21:20
lardman\|home	thanks	21:20
lardman\|home	can you make a note about upload sizes to pass onto Niels	21:21
jeremiah_	Yes	21:21
jeremiah_	Extras-devel	21:21
lardman\|home	cool	21:21
jeremiah_	lardman\|home: What do you want me to say?	21:21
jeremiah_	That you could not upload because of size?	21:21
lardman\|home	just that it breaks for that package and I think it's related to the size of the tarball	21:21
lardman\|home	no clue why	21:21
jeremiah_	The tarball is only 21 megs	21:22
jeremiah_	weird	21:22
lardman\|home	yeah, but pretty big for a source tarball really	21:22
jeremiah_	Yes, indeed.	21:22
Flandry	when i tried to upload the 130 mb package, it would eventually error out saying i hadn't uploaded a .changes file	21:23
pH5	hi, it seems that h-a-m ignores the recommends field of debian packages. is there any other way to pull in support packages during installation without a hard dependency?	21:23
Flandry	so a timeout of some sort	21:23
jeremiah_	okay	21:24
jeremiah_	I'll note that and make sure X-Fade sees it. :)	21:24
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lardman\|home	pH5: patch HAM I fear, it has other shortcomings too	21:24
lardman\|home	pH5: would be nice if it asked if you wanted the recommends	21:24
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Flandry	yes	21:25
Flandry	HAM could use some beefing up ;)	21:25
jeremiah_	Yeah, I agree. But that might get confusing quickly if your recommends recommends something	21:25
lardman\|home	Flandry: needs bg installation or multi (un)install	21:26
lardman\|home	like the iPhone or Android phones do, all in the bg	21:26
jeremiah_	Backgrounding installations would be awesome.	21:26
jeremiah_	Perhaps check to see if we are on the charger, download the Package file.	21:26
Flandry	yeah they would. I just found out it's actually open, so i will look into some improvements i had in mind	21:27
lardman\|home	should be doable, just keep a list of selected packages and then install anything that's not been installed yet, etc	21:27
ShadowJK	hm, did h-a-m on N8x0 prevent you from switching back to another app?	21:27
Flandry	installs deferred to wifi	21:27
lardman\|home	ShadowJK: yeah, was modal	21:27
* pwnguin is confused		21:27
Flandry	that would be cool too	21:27
pwnguin	Does Ovi Store cost?	21:27
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jeremiah_	Flandry: I think Daniel Wilms is doing a new kinda thing with Qt to sorta augment HAM	21:27
pwnguin	to subscribe to?	21:27
lardman\|home	pwnguin: can do, but needn't	21:27
Flandry	oh ok	21:28
jeremiah_	pwnguin: depends	21:28
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jeremiah_	pwnguin: Ovi Mail is free.	21:28
lardman\|home	jeremiah: depends how quickly we get Qt of course ;)	21:28
lardman\|home	s/Qt/Maemo 6	21:28
jeremiah_	4.6 is in though right?	21:28
jeremiah_	ah	21:28
Flandry	jeremiah: that reminds me, could i get you to remove the uqm-altstart pkg please?	21:28
lardman\|home	yeah	21:28
lardman\|home	bbiab, supper time	21:28
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jeremiah_	Flandry: Yes, I'll do it right now	21:29
Flandry	thanks	21:29
jeremiah_	Flandry: Is it in diablo or fremantle?	21:29
pwnguin	jeremiah_: for the purposes of this question, i'm just talking about the 50 dollar rebate offer	21:29
Flandry	fremantle	21:29
jeremiah_	Flandry: check	21:29
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jeremiah_	pwnguin: I'm unfortunately not sure about that.	21:29
Flandry	yay, daily newb cleanup accomplished	21:29
pupnik	?	21:30
pupnik	oh the package :)	21:30
Flandry	me or the package, either way :D	21:30
pwnguin	jeremiah_: my guess is they're trying to get a lot of people "subscribed" to the store so they can go to commercial app vendors and have an interested customer base to point to	21:31
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pwnguin	and maybe some fake commercial success in their Ovi Store fueled by 50 dollar credits will lead to unsupported successes. i donno	21:32
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jeremiah_	pwnguin: Well, they definitely want paid apps on Ovi	21:36
jeremiah_	That much I am sure about	21:36
jeremiah_	I think it is application developers who are driving the Ovi store	21:37
jeremiah_	I mean, Nokia has 1 billion customers	21:37
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jeremiah_	So, an App store would be pretty successful I imagine	21:37
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lardman\|afk	is also for individual app devs to be able to use, not just large commercial firms	21:38
lardman\|afk	and like the Android Market & iPhone App Store will allow both free and $ apps	21:38
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lardman\|afk	at least that's what I understood from the summit	21:39
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pupnik	Flandry: i love uqm so much, sometimes i leave it running just for the tunes	21:40
pupnik	definitely recommend folks get the 3DO music	21:40
dmj7262	uqm?	21:40
pupnik	which mod player did you use?	21:40
Flandry	yeah i need to get that promoted to testing	21:40
pupnik	The Ur-Quan Masters (gpl'd Star Control II)	21:41
Flandry	it keeps erroring with php errors	21:41
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Flandry	it's an internal version of libmikmod	21:41
pupnik	is the share data optified?	21:41
pupnik	ok i used it too	21:41
Flandry	everything goes in /opt/uqm now	21:41
lardman	~lart the SDK for not having extras-* enabled	21:42
* infobot beats the SDK into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy for not having extras-* enabled		21:42
Flandry	i don't even make links, just put it in opt and the desktop file points there	21:42
pupnik	good	21:42
pupnik	less changes	21:42
dmj7262	extras is enabled on the device, yes?	21:42
pupnik	user must enable	21:43
pupnik	but repo is there	21:43
lardman	dmj726: not by default, but the entry is there	21:43
Flandry	lardman: i requested that as a bug i think. qgil shout it down	21:43
lardman	too late	21:43
Flandry	shot	21:43
lardman	Flandry: in the SDK?	21:43
Flandry	yeah	21:43
dmj7262	ah, so it's just that one checkbox that needs checking?	21:43
lardman	hmm, do you have a #?	21:44
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lardman	dmj726: yep	21:44
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Flandry	i'm looking. bugzilla search seems to have locked up firefox oO	21:46
lardman	np :)	21:46
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pupnik	"By the fetid breath of the dark twin Kazon!"	21:47
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Flandry	searching "My Bugs" makes the tab unresponsive	21:48
Flandry	weird	21:48
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wazd	hehe, omweather reached 2k downloads :)	21:50
pupnik	++	21:50
dmj7262	umm...are there that many devices out there yet?	21:51
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pH5	i downloaded omweather in the sdk..	21:52
jeremiah_	Flandry: Removed uqm-altstart	21:52
lardman	dmj726: from previous devices too	21:54
dmj7262	oh...not as impressive hen.	21:54
lardman	note to self, fix zbar so that python is a recommends rather than a dep	21:55
dmj7262	*then	21:55
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Flandry	finally: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5752	21:58
povbot	Bug 5752: Extras, extras-devel and extras-testing are not in the default apt sources.list	21:58
Flandry	wow, thanks povbot :D	21:59
pupnik	Flandry: message text in uqm is not high enough contrast for bright light imo	21:59
wazd	aaaaah	21:59
* Flandry is still creeped out by the awareness of IRC bots		21:59
pupnik	dark blue on dark blue looks cooÃl	21:59
wazd	Olmsted is not dead, he's a father again :D	21:59
Flandry	which messages?	21:59
pupnik	should not be in defyult!	21:59
pupnik	from planet surface	22:00
Flandry	lander broadcast?	22:00
pupnik	yeah	22:00
Flandry	i agree	22:00
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Flandry	i'll see if that's something i can fix :D	22:00
pupnik	it matches the blie on rest of screen	22:01
pupnik	i would either go cyan or green	22:01
lardman	hmm, do I need to compile camerabin for myself to install in sb?	22:01
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pupnik	Fwiffo is so great	22:03
pupnik	241.6 368.7 Huffi-Muffi-Duffi	22:04
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Flandry	It's good you like him. He has thousands of related encrustlings or whatever the word is :D	22:04
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Flandry	jeremiah: thanks. I'm beginning to think that the inability to view the package page for the big data package i mentioned earlier so that i can promote it to testing is a bug and not just due to slow servers. It fails every time with PHP errors and i've not seen that happen any other times.	22:06
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Khertan_home	Hi !	22:08
Flandry	hello	22:08
Khertan_home	Does there is know bug with openssh-server on Fremantle ?	22:08
Khertan_home	'PTY allocation request failed on channel 0'	22:08
Khertan_home	when i try to ssh from my desktop	22:09
pupnik	triscan scaler is my favorite in uqm - nice performance on N900	22:09
wazd	aaaaaah	22:09
wazd	now I see where I saw that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVZ6E9EnJ3I	22:09
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Flandry	pupnik: Oh, really? What kind of framerates do you get in combat?	22:10
pupnik	will check	22:11
pupnik	maybe it is too slow for combat	22:11
Khertan_home	[21:09] <Khertan_home> 'PTY allocation request failed on channel 0' <<< too many xterm open on the n900	22:11
Khertan_home	:)	22:11
pupnik	heheh	22:11
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pupnik	the pause feature rules	22:12
Flandry	jeremiah: Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/repository.php on line 542	22:13
konttori	pupnik: how much cpu do you consume for the scaling atm?	22:14
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konttori	I'm weighting soft scaling vs compositing	22:14
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pupnik	can not ssh into device konttori - diagnosing	22:20
jkridner\|work	omap3 on non-nokia devices is going on live now. http://tinyurl.com/etechlightning on the Part 2 stream.	22:21
RST38h	konttori: Weighting for what? =)	22:22
konttori	well, interested in how much the compositor scaling will help you guys	22:22
konttori	as that was implemented 2 weeks ago	22:22
konttori	I showed javispedro the example code on how to use it	22:22
RST38h	Software scaling is a bit tricky	22:23
konttori	(to verify that he was ok with the api of it)	22:23
javispedro	konttori: you said it was not implemented in 1.0 release, but Iirc I saw the code on previous SDK' hildon-desktop	22:23
RST38h	Can I try compositing too? =)	22:23
konttori	(as we needed to verify from at least one 'user' of the api)	22:23
konttori	javispedro: yeah, it's up for the first SSU release	22:23
konttori	RST38h: just get the latest desktop from git	22:23
Flandry	Right now it just uses the SDL to scale	22:24
RST38h	konttori: Software scaling only makes sense if you know exactly the ratio between source and destination bitmaps	22:24
javispedro	well user user, i'll have to switch from SDL to Gtk+, but I planned that either way.	22:24
RST38h	konttori: oh ok	22:24
konttori	I think there is also the example code in git now	22:24
RST38h	konttori: But if you know the ratio, you can write very tight assembly code that scales your image, even with antialiasing	22:24
konttori	yeah, I'm kind of assuming that that might or might not be faster.	22:25
javispedro	basically, the code puts the unscaled data in a new extra x11 window that the compositor handles in a special way -- converting from pixmap to texture the usual way but scaling the result	22:25
Flandry	it also uses a normal sdl canvas. I was considering changing it to a hardware canvas but don't know how much benefit there is in that	22:25
javispedro	Flandry: SDL to scale?	22:26
RST38h	javis: sounds somewhat complicated	22:26
javispedro	sdl 1.2 scaling functions are awfully slow!	22:26
javispedro	at least use sdl_gfx	22:26
Flandry	it may be uqm-specific code	22:26
Flandry	i just used what was there ;)	22:26
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Flandry	you can actually select the scaling algorithm in the setup	22:26
konttori	javispedro: hmm... cannot you use the scaling from sdl?	22:27
konttori	(compositor scaling)	22:27
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javispedro	konttori: it's not trivial for me right now how to paint to a GtkWindow right now -- RST38h may know that better than me.	22:28
* javispedro is watching the Maemo on TI broadcast		22:28
* Laiska also		22:29
konttori	So, the scaling would only work for gtk? ouch, that sucks.	22:29
konttori	I really didn't have the time to follow on the the implementation and figured your confirmation was enough	22:30
Stskeeps	yet another interview over	22:30
javispedro	konttori: SDL has no builtin scaling functions either way.	22:30
Stskeeps	my ear is burning	22:30
javispedro	:)	22:30
javispedro	Stskeeps: but as usual, good job	22:30
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konttori	ah, but setting the window properties of the sdl window should have been enough afaik	22:30
toggles_w	fuck u	22:30
javispedro	that is doable I think	22:30
konttori	that was what we pretty much agreed on pre-implementation.	22:30
Flandry	oOo	22:30
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toggles_w	toggles_w: sorry, focus..	22:31
toggles_w	lol	22:31
konttori	that you need to set the scale region to the xwindow properties	22:31
javispedro	yeah, skipping the HildonAnimationActor stuff and just setting the proper xatoms	22:31
konttori	what is ti broadcast?	22:31
konttori	javispedro: that should do the trick	22:32
Stskeeps	konttori: http://wiki.omap.com/index.php/ETechDays_Community_Lightning_Talks	22:32
Stskeeps	did a talk on maemo on non-nokia devices	22:32
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konttori	cool	22:34
javispedro	well, will try this after dinner and see what needs to be done in sdl apps (if the latest sdk has that implemented)	22:34
konttori	good presentation (checked the slides)	22:34
Stskeeps	quick and sweet	22:34
Stskeeps	:P	22:34
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konttori	Stskeeps: how was the reception of your presentation?	22:35
BabelO	hi guys	22:36
BabelO	what about maemo 5 / N900 and MMS with this http://www.mbuni.org/status.shtml ?	22:36
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Stskeeps	konttori: deafening silence in irc channel but the main thing is that when someone comes and reads the presentation + the video with the slides on and me talking, it may in the future inspire someone to participate in Maemo on Beagle/Zoom2 or Mer. and that's what is worth something.	22:36
javispedro	frals: mms keyword, wake up!	22:36
javispedro	;)	22:37
konttori	BabelO: really interesting.	22:37
smackpotat	mzzz so there was no noticible increase in speed with that ramdrive	22:37
BabelO	konttori: yes i see that interesting too :)	22:37
* konttori needed to reboot his device after ubifs had totally wasted 100% of rootfs		22:37
woglinde	konttori nice	22:39
BabelO	konttori: need some work for the interface , but i ve no MMS full credit to devel this app :)	22:40
pupnik	konttori: triscan: 53% during conversations.39% during idle conversation Ãmenu	22:40
konttori	wow. so, that is only the scaling?	22:41
Flandry	triscan is using 53% of CPU time during conversations?	22:43
tigert	hmm	22:43
tigert	is extras-devel borken?	22:44
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Flandry	how so?	22:44
pupnik	/usr/bin/pulseaudio 18% cpu	22:44
tigert	some no hash error	22:44
pupnik	planet rotastion view 31%	22:44
pupnik	konttori: uqm rarely/never does fullscreen updates	22:45
konttori	ah. of course	22:46
konttori	plugin headphones to decrease pulseaudio consumption	22:46
konttori	it doesn't do equalization changes if you have headphones (or bluetooth) on	22:46
pupnik	nice hint ty	22:47
pupnik	it uses eq to get good performance out of tiny speakers konttori ?	22:47
konttori	I would really like the equalization to be turnable off for also the speakers	22:47
woglinde	bahaha android port	22:47
konttori	pupnik: that's the idea.	22:48
woglinde	hm ah	22:48
woglinde	19:30 David Schleef ds Theora decoding on DSP	22:48
pupnik	one capacitor would do the trick tolo :)	22:48
konttori	and also to not-to-put 1000 Hz audio out, as that resonates on the device	22:48
pupnik	too	22:48
pupnik	ah	22:48
woglinde	hm stskeep too	22:48
derf	woglinde: He backed out.	22:48
pupnik	i wont ask about dsp :)	22:48
* konttori really doesn't understand the reasoning on why to use the equalization and not a fraction of a cent costing chip		22:49
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jeremiah_	tigert: It may be the mirrors	22:49
tigert	jeremiah_: ok	22:49
jeremiah_	tigert: Can you paste the error you're getting?	22:49
jeremiah_	I can check the Packages file to see if it is corrupt	22:50
RST38h	konttori: chip or a capacitor?	22:50
jeremiah_	It happens. :(	22:50
woglinde	hm I wonder if this xmbc guy uses the dsp stuff	22:50
konttori	RST38h: well, an electronic component, whatever does the trick(s)	22:50
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tigert	"no hash entry in Release file"	22:51
RST38h	konttori: capacitor will probably take more space	22:52
woglinde	moo rst	22:52
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RST38h	remoo woglinde	22:52
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frals	javispedro: darn, gf ninjamuted my laptop otherwise i wouldve answered ;-)	23:05
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javispedro	frals: I knew there had to be some earth shattering excuse ;)	23:05
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dmj7262	ah the old ninjamutation excuse!	23:06
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jeremiah_	Ninjamute!	23:11
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dmj7262	Gnundroid	23:12
pupnik	has anyone got qik working? qik.com/arnims should be live	23:14
pupnik	2mbit adsl	23:14
pupnik	i think 384kbit/s up	23:14
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Ceron^	http://zip.4chan.org/g/src/1258492069875.jpg You now want to go to pripyat	23:22
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JoeBrain	Ceron^: what's that a picture of?	23:24
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andre__	JoeBrain: chernobyl area	23:27
JoeBrain	spooky	23:27
Ceron^	JoeBrain: pripyat and area close to chernobyl	23:27
v2px	Ceron^: oh, threadlink pls	23:28
Ceron^	i have no thread sorry	23:28
Ceron^	might be on englishrussia.com	23:28
mikhas	there was a post in the blogosphere some time ago, about someone taking the offer of a guided chernobyl trip	23:28
v2px	oh okay, nvm	23:29
andre__	v2px, http://community.livejournal.com/abandonedplaces/1651741.html	23:29
andre__	or the www.kiddofspeed.com/ webpage...	23:29
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v2px	got it	23:29
v2px	on 4ch	23:29
v2px	:)	23:29
andre__	now what was my original intention? ah yeah, forwarding bugs from internal to external [sic]...	23:30
* VDVsx would like to visit that place :)		23:31
* CoreFusion- is under a livelong surveillance because of that		23:32
johnsq	and get a good portion of radiation	23:32
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lardman	night all	23:34
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javispedro	bye lardman	23:34
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mikhas	johnsq, the radiation in the air is reported to be acceptable. it's the radioactivity in the soil that requires good footwear	23:35
andre__	CoreFusion-, uh?	23:36
mikhas	and even that would have gone by now if back then they hadn't just burried under the soil, but carried it away and treated it as toxic waste	23:36
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CoreFusion-	andre_: I'm part of a randomly selected people born in 1985-1986 who are from time to time checked for various stuff	23:38
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Ceron^	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY2j_GPIqRA what is love by gates	23:38
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andre__	CoreFusion-, aha... interesting	23:39
Stskeeps	CoreFusion-: so you were born with a third leg? :P	23:39
greenfly	how would one unmap the hardware volume keys before starting an application?	23:39
greenfly	trying to get right-click back in vncviewer	23:39
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owen	hi	23:40
javispedro	oh my god	23:42
javispedro	i just mounted the sd card without long filenames	23:42
javispedro	flashback to the past	23:43
Stskeeps	hehe	23:43
GeneralAntilles	greenfly, there's a page on the wiki.	23:43
owen	Hi There, anybody got their n900 yet?	23:44
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Porting_Existing_GTK%2B_Application_to_Maemo_5#Remapping_volume_keys	23:44
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SpeedEvil	owen: The news is a lie.	23:45
SpeedEvil	owen: it's not - yet - shipped to end users.	23:45
owen	some mention of Friday??	23:46
SpeedEvil	owen: It may have shipped to distributors, but not yet actual normal people.	23:46
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owen	oh well I have installed the SDK and sandbox	23:46
owen	but my c skills are very rusty	23:46
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owen	so when do you really think it will ship to end users???	23:48
owen	before Christmas surely?!!	23:48
CoreFusion-	Nokia shop here in Finland start delivering this friday and the goal is to have all pre-orders delivered during next week (only for those who have ordered directly from Nokia, others will follow the next week after that)	23:49
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owen	i ordered from Nokia UK so here's hoping....	23:49
ShadowJK	I noticed a subtle change in one of the operators' responses on webforums here in .fi. They said something like "looks currently like we'll be allowed to ship <date>", the 'allow' part could imply they have units	23:50
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CoreFusion-	ShadowJK: What operator?	23:50
greenfly	GeneralAntilles: thanks, I appreaciate it	23:50
greenfly	er, appreciate	23:50
greenfly	GeneralAntilles: ahh, so if I want a particular app to do this I'm going to need to modify that app's source it looks like	23:51
GeneralAntilles	greenfly, yes.	23:52
ShadowJK	Saunalahti	23:52
owen	any word on despotify	23:52
greenfly	okay	23:52
CoreFusion-	ShadowJK: Sounds good :) that's where I have ordered my N900 :)	23:53
ShadowJK	I ordered from nokia	23:53
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konttori	owen: I have heard despotify is a straight compilation	23:54
konttori	so, perhaps someone needs to take the time and package it.	23:55
konttori	and then someone else to make UI for it.	23:55
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konttori	I mean the command line despotify works like a charm	23:55
owen	hope so, I might get that hand of compliation by next summer	23:55
VDVsx	I saw some Qt version if I recall correctly	23:55
konttori	http://maemo-freak.com/index.php/downloads/appsdown/1285-despotify-open-source-spotify-client-running-on-a-nokia-n900	23:55
VDVsx	that's it^	23:56
konttori	can someone please take the time and package that?	23:56
konttori	I am not using it myself, but that would be wonderful for people who do use spotify.	23:56
konttori	(anybody willing to invite me?)	23:57
owen	sure	23:57
VDVsx	can be a good candidate for the UX hackfest, if it needs some UI love	23:57
owen	I'm running it under wine	23:57
* CoreFusion- would like an invite too..		23:57
konttori	yeah, definitely needs UI love	23:57
owen	I need your email addys	23:58
suihkulokki	despotify needs paid account	23:58
VDVsx	can you use spotify in Finland ?	23:58
konttori	urho.konttori@gmail.com	23:58
konttori	VDVsx: yeah you can	23:58
konttori	it needs paid account?	23:58
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CoreFusion-	How much is it?	23:58
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konttori	does it work in the ad paid mode at all?	23:58
suihkulokki	free accounts are supported by ads and despotiy doesn't support playing spotify ads	23:59
konttori	suihkulokki: can somebody just add the support?	23:59
suihkulokki	maybe the despot developers think it would be too easy to mod it not to play ads	23:59
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konttori	http://www.spotify.com/en/ --> 9.99 per month	23:59
VDVsx	bahhh : " Spotify is currently available in Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, France and Spain. We hope to launch in more countries in the future."	23:59

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