IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-11-15

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wazdStskeeps: :D00:00
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wazdRST38h: yep00:01
CoreFusion-hello everyone!00:01
wazdShapeshifter: Droids keyboard is an abomination00:01
jebbajebcrashanddie: no, i dont know which script you are talking about.  This is a case where the source .deb isn't in the repo (e.g. it's in lenny,. but not fremantle).   You got URL to script?00:02
Shapeshifterwazd: looks like it00:03
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, that's so goddamn creepy.00:06
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ShapeshifterI'm really impressed with apparent n900 battery life00:08
Shapeshifterlooks like it's no problem.00:08
javispedrowhy you say that?00:08
javispedrowhat makes you say that?00:09
* Stskeeps 's n900 charges just like he charges overnight.00:09
Shapeshifterjavispedro: people reporting that they can use it through a day including some surfing and stuff without it dying.00:10
javispedroi'm used to a two day charge cycle and even that seems a bit on the low side.00:10
cehtehhow long does it take to charge it on the charger .. and how long on a normal usb port?00:10
Shapeshifterwell yeah, it's not much, but if it lasts a day thats acceptable00:10
javispedroonly a day with "some surfing" and you consider that impressive?00:10
Shapeshifterless then a day of heavy use would be unusable00:10
Shapeshifterjavispedro: not impressive, I said "not a problem"00:11
CoreFusion-just carry the usb-charger with you.. problem solved?00:11
* Chani almost drained it yesterday00:11
ShapeshifterCoreFusion-: what, do I have a usb plug on my butt? >.>00:11
Chanifor a brand new battery... meh.00:11
Shapeshifteror what use is taking the usb charger with you00:11
CoreFusion-shapeshifter: what? you don't have access to an usb port at any time of the day?00:12
ShapeshifterCoreFusion-: no I dont >.>00:12
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javispedroI do00:12
Shapeshifterwhy would I need a "mobile computer" if I had a real computer all the time00:12
Mekdisabling wifi powersaving makes it drain rather quickly, but unfortunately that is the only way I seem to be able to keep it somewhat connected to the wifi here at home... fortunately charging it is no problem when I'm home00:12
ChaniCoreFusion-: sadly they're not installing them in forests or at beaches yet00:12
javispedrobut I've fried two gadgets connecting them to "random" USB ports00:12
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ShapeshifterI'm wondering if I should sign that extra insurance for my n900. Costs 120$ for one year but they pay for every kind of damage like dropping the phone, scratching the display hard, water damage, all the stuff that is usually not covered00:13
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Thephilosopertime for a troll ?00:14
tKMFDMi find that my n900 usually charges within 2-3 hours00:15
CoreFusion-doesn't your home-insurance cover things like that?00:15
ShapeshifterCoreFusion-: no.00:15
Thephilosoperis there someone that have  a preproduction here ?00:15
ShapeshifterCoreFusion-: are you living in paradise?00:15
CoreFusion-shapeshifter: yes :P finland00:15
Shapeshifterusb ports everywhere, insurances pay for damage caused by oneself00:16
ShapeshifterCoreFusion-: well00:16
GAN90030 minutes to 80%, then 2 hours to 100%.00:16
GAN900More on a regular USB bus.00:16
qwerty12_N900CoreFusion-: I didn't know paradise was going to be so cold :(00:16
CoreFusion-shapeshifter: my home insurance would cover if i were to damage the device too badly00:16
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GAN900Chani, not sure what you expect from such a high-performance device.00:17
ShapeshifterCoreFusion-: lucky.00:17
CoreFusion-qwerty12_N900: there has to be at least one downside :P00:17
GAN900Unfortunately technology is where it is.00:17
ChaniGAN900: well I only tried to make *one* phone call with it...00:17
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Chaniwell, skype call00:17
* Chani lives in the land of cellphone lock-in00:17
CoreFusion-shapeshifter: of course there is a fee that i would have to pay, say 120e but the insurance company would pay the rest00:17
Shapeshiftermaybe I should buy an msi xslim instead of the n90000:18
Shapeshifter8 hours of heavy use and it's a lap top >.>00:18
Shapeshiftermaybe I shouldn't buy anything at all00:18
Chanibattery life is part of the reason I don't really *want* to use this thing as a phone, though. if using the interwebs for a few hours and listening to some music kills my battery, what am I gonna do if I need to make a phone call on the way home?00:19
Shapeshiftermy crap LG died now I'm using a 6310i00:19
ShapeshifterI think it was the best phone on the market for more then a year ^^00:19
CoreFusion-chani: there are sim-locked phones in here too, but not all of them, depents on the operator00:20
ShapeshifterChani: just keep a small crap phone with you for calls?00:20
pupnik_ok this is so awesome.   pandora advertisements in classic gaming themes
ChaniShapeshifter: yep. I have nokia's absolute cheapest phone00:20
pupnik_way way too cool00:20
ChaniCoreFusion-: at least you have a sim card, then...00:20
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CoreFusion- lol, may take up to 2 months to load programs00:21
CoreFusion-chani: :)00:21
javispedrothey're lying00:21
javispedrothe pandora doesn't have 64K RAM!!!00:22
ShapeshifterI recommend this cost me 10$ with 20$ talk time included. You need to buy a couple of them though, on mine the speaker went bust after 10 months00:22
CoreFusion-shapeshifter: why would one buy such? can't you such buy a second-hand phone for the same price but better features?00:23
ShapeshifterCoreFusion-: guess so. but why better features?00:23
CoreFusion-shapeshifter: like speakers that last longer? :P00:24
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CoreFusion-argh.. i can't wait until my operator installs my adsl-connection here... (just moved to a new apartment)00:25
CoreFusion-currently using my 3g connection :)00:26
serenity where is the 'send' button in pidgin?00:27
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pupnik_maemo5 feature idea: keep themes on /opt except current theme00:30
pupnik_instead of /usr/share00:30
pupnik_save 10 MB here00:30
Thephilosoperis it me or maemo5 is really more like a field test for maemo 6 ?00:30
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lcukpupnik_, prefer to boot from SD asap00:31
lcukill get an 8gb / or whatever and forget all this00:31
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pupnik_i am showing maemo5 to real non-computer people and00:31
pupnik_good point lcuk00:31
pupnik_but current scheme saves battery00:31
pupnik_i think00:31
pupnik_ and they think it looks super.00:32
* lcuk totally agrees00:32
pupnik_but they are not 500 eu phone buyers either00:32
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ShapeshifterCeron^: LOL what a laugh.00:37
Chaniit certainly is shiny00:38
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Shapeshifterpupnik_: huh? how does the scheme save battery?00:39
pupnik_i suspect rootfs is less a drain than microsd00:39
Shapeshifterah. I thought you meant theme by scheme00:39
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pupnik_anyway, should i file brainstorm or feature req00:40
pupnik_this channel *is* my notepad :)00:40
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Shapeshifterjavispedro: 5?00:42
javispedroah, damn rocket science.00:42
CoreFusion-wohoo! only little over 22 hours until the new season of Top Gear starts!!! \o/ \o/ \o/00:42
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pupnik_corefusion - did you see sabine schmitz on Top Gear?  Nordschleife?00:49
pupnik_check out the youtube00:49
pupnik_she almost beats him in a ford transit00:49
pupnik_136 hp van vs 240 hp jaguar00:50
Shapeshifterpupnik_: do you know tab completion?00:51
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CoreFusion-pupnik_: do you mean the one from one of the earlier seasons00:52
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wazdok, another miserable day is over, gnite all00:59
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Stskeepsgnite wazd01:01
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recalcatigood morning01:06
dmj7261Are there any game/graphics engines ported to Maemo?01:07
dmj7261I'm thinking openGL (es 2.0 I know) ones01:08
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recalcatiI'll buy an N900 for work, but I also like to use it as a pc: see my wiki page
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pupnik_CoreFusion-: yes, Shapeshifter yes01:13
pupnik_dmj7261: quake301:14
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recalcatithe topic is not stupid, It seems that tha battery lasts 4h 45min01:15
GeneralAntillesrecalcati, what battery?01:16
GeneralAntillesrecalcati, and what's the test?01:16
GeneralAntillesI get about 4-6 hours of video playback.01:16
zerojayOkay... TMO is now... well... pretty much useless.01:16
recalcatisorry, italian language in the link inside01:17
pupnik_expect the battery does not last 4h 45min01:17
GeneralAntillesSo, I dunno what they're doing to get 4:45.01:17
pupnik_it last much more, or less, usually01:17
GeneralAntillesrecalcati, what are the testing parameters?01:17
GeneralAntillesrecalcati, I don't read Italian.01:17
recalcatiI'll try to traslate to english, but I think is understable01:17
javispedrostress testing results in 3 hours01:17
GeneralAntilleszerojay, just NOW? ;)01:17
javispedrofrom what I know at least.01:17
pupnik_depends enturely on use, as with all advanced power management devices01:18
recalcatidirect link
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I got ~6 hours with ~70% CPU usage, WiFi connected and screen off.01:18
zerojayGeneralAntilles: I've never seen it this retarded before.01:18
javispedroGeneralAntilles: but 5 hours is what the N810 lasts here with 90% CPU usage, Wi-Fi connected and screen on.01:18
pupnik_mobile phone folks think they know everything01:18
recalcatiI'm trying to understand what is useful to have a really mobile pc01:18
GeneralAntilleszerojay, the retardations been more directed before (conspiracy insanity), but it's pretty spammy now.01:18
recalcati   specify, in english, what I mean01:19
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, that's also with cellular, IM, GPS, etc.01:19
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, OMAP3 really brings a LOT more variability to power consumption01:19
recalcatiI'm buying it for work01:19
javispedroGeneralAntilles: I agree.01:19
GeneralAntillessince it's HIGHLY dependent on what's currently happening.01:19
pupnik_recalcati: it is not intended as a mibile pc in the general sense, for the targeted audience.  that is a blend of specific use-cases.01:20
recalcatiwhat about the bluetooth real keyboard .01:20
pupnik_sharing this, connecting that.  that is the emphasis we see from nokia01:20
GeneralAntillesrecalcati, in real usage I get about 10-16 hours.01:20
recalcatipupnik_: yes, is an experiment, but in 2011/12 with omap4 it will be really possible01:20
Shapeshiftermy desktop lasts for months01:20
Shapeshifterat 100% cpu01:20
Shapeshifterand screen on01:20
Shapeshifterhahaa! behold01:21
recalcatiShapeshifter: your desktop is not mobile01:21
GeneralAntillesrecalcati, browsing occasionally, WiFi or EDGE connected 24/7, IRC and IM idling all day.01:21
Shapeshifterrecalcati: well, not unless I move it.01:21
recalcatiGeneralAntilles: nice, I buy it and try!01:21
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, 'course then it instantly turns off. ;)01:21
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: indeed :D01:21
GeneralAntilleszerojay, those grapple things creep me out.01:21
pupnik_however I personally love them as little linux pcs01:21
GeneralAntilleszerojay, though they're surprisingly tasty.01:22
recalcatiShapeshifter: you have to carry with you a diesel energy central (I don't know the english term)01:22
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recalcatiplease I need to understand if bluettoth keyboard is a good solution01:23
recalcatiGeneralAntilles: yes01:23
cehtehthere was some post i seen earlier complaining that a lot keys dont work01:23
cehtehbut thats likely only  matter of x config01:23
Shapeshifteruhm I'm not sure about the USB host mode thing (is there any news on that?) because I actually think that if you can connect a keyboard through USB there's no point for bluetooth really01:24
Shapeshifterbluetooth keyboards I mean01:24
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recalcaticehteh: we will fix it, but I'm afraid about energy requested by bluetooth01:24
recalcatiShapeshifter: I'll investigated it, I think that qt can accept several inputs01:25
Shapeshifterrecalcati: it's more about if the n900 can do it in general01:25
cehtehrecalcati: well since you want a monitor that means you have a power outlet available or?01:25
ShapeshifterI've only ever heard rumours about it being "possible to hack in" or whatever01:25
cehtehplugin the charger and fine01:25
recalcatiif you read the wiki I imagine to replace its battery with a bigger one, but, anyway, I have to try it before.01:25
cehtehi am rather scared by PAL resolution for working ... that sux :P01:26
recalcaticehteh: yes, Iknow, but we'll have 1080p with the nect device, even if omap3 can manage easily 720p01:27
recalcatiI image to resize 567i to 720p, should be really nice, but it will require more energy01:28
pupnik_do we have a "locate" that can use crawler data?01:28
cehtehrecalcati: i dont know the video out specs .. but with a simple composite cable you dont get much more than pal .. at a bad quality01:28
pupnik_or is that another project idea?01:28
Shapeshifterso... from what I'm reading the n900 is USB host capable but it's not certified because it can't go together with usb charging so it's not oficially implemented in any way or what?01:28
cehtehis Xephyr available on mameo / n900?01:29
pupnik_what for?01:30
ShapeshifterBut, is it being implemented unofficially? Will it work?01:30
* cehteh often work that way that he exports a emacs window via wlan to his desktop ...01:30
pupnik_this is #maemo irc, emacs is another OS ;)01:31
cehtehinstead just one app one could export a whole session with xephyr there :) .. yes mad idea01:31
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, it CAN go together with charging.01:31
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, but I think there were some issues.01:31
cehtehpupnik_: well maybe i replace maemo with emacs someday01:31
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GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, but there were some issues so they were just going to ship unofficial support01:32
GeneralAntillesand apparently the USB consortium said "No, either it works, or you break it."01:32
pupnik_does emacs have an ebay auction monitor yet?01:32
cehtehpupnik_: not sure, but likely01:32
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ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: so they broke it?01:33
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, that's the impression I'm under.01:33
cehtehanyways what i wanted to say: exporting x11 over wlan works well01:33
GeneralAntillesThey had to do something to make it difficult to use or else they wouldn't have been able to call whatever they put in there USB.01:33
recalcativpbe (video processing back end) cpu interface is capable of 720p, see
cehtehbetter than TV out prolly01:34
GeneralAntillesSo, basically, the USB consortium isn't actually out to protect consumers. ;)01:34
recalcatithe main Texas wiki site is http://wiki.davincidsp.com01:34
pupnik_cehteh, maemo has freenx client qtnx01:35
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: ping01:35
cehtehi bet we will see n900 docking stations soonafter .. with keyboard, monitor and maybe disk :)01:35
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, pong?01:35
timeless_mbpdidn't someone file a bug about the ok/cancel buttons in gmail?01:35
timeless_mbpi can't find it01:35
ShapeshifterI hope nokia just cut a line on the board and printed "solder here" on the board for everyone to enable it01:35
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GeneralAntillesDunno, I'm not familiar with the issue01:35
GeneralAntillesand I haven't been tracking recent changes well lately.01:35
povbotBug 5130: Use of "yes/no" in JavaScript confirmation dialogues is confusing01:35
pupnik_any electrical engineers wanna peek at that fm transmitter?  mine can transmit 20 centimeters01:36
pupnik_on a good frequency01:36
cehtehextra battery packs connected to the usb port should be also quite easy to build01:36
pupnik_or is this another blessing of government for us01:37
pupnik_or purchase01:37
recalcaticehteh: please explain better...01:38
pupnik_!g "powered usb hub"01:38
recalcatiWhere can I buy it?01:38
cehtehrecalcati: i meant rather self build01:38 has some new ones in for aboit 7 dollars01:38
pupnik_usb battery packs that is01:38
recalcaticehteh: ok, but I'm afradi that the original battery can suffer for several recharging01:39
cehtehget some battery pack, some DCDC voltage regulator, a 200ohms resistor and a mini usb plug and don01:39
pupnik_original nokia batteries for n900 can be found for 14 eu i think01:39
recalcaticehteh: A good way to destroy the N900, or not?01:39
cehtehrecalcati: its not *that* expensive01:39
cehtehno why?01:40
pupnik_why risk it.  tur  off, swap battery.  buy external charger01:40
cehtehyou can prolly operate it completely on external power ... just keep the internal battery there because the device needs it01:40
cehtehpupnik_: whats the risk?01:40
pupnik_you will lug around an ugly mess instead of one slim spare battery01:41
pupnik_risk looking like a loser at the cafe01:41
recalcatinothing, I'm not goood with hw, but I remember something about voltage transient01:41
cehtehwhat does the original charger do?01:41
recalcatithx, you are all very very kind, my wiki is now better01:41
cehtehor actually usb chargers are standardized by now01:42
pupnik_usb trickle-charges, charger quick-charges01:42
cehtehspecs are open and selfbuild or from other vendor things have to be compatible when fullfil the specs01:43
pupnik_i would buy nokia due to n900 being so dear01:43
Maceranybody here good with dns ?01:43 zimbraserver.yourdomain.com01:44
Macerthat doesn't seem right01:44
recalcatithx, Im going bed. See you next time.01:44
Maceri don't understand where that would go01:44
* cehteh goes to bed too01:44
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yigalwhere do I purchase an n900 as a US customer nokia or amazon, or is there a reliable bargain store?01:50
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yigalwell it's obviously cheaper on amazon, hmm I wonder when the device will arrive01:52
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Xisdibikyigal: Dell also sells it apparently for cheaper than amazon and nokia01:53
Xisdibikyigal: i have my preordered with Amazon myself though01:53
luke-jryigal: you realize GSM service is a ripoff in the US?01:53
Xisdibikluke-jr: 99% of stuff is a rip off in the US01:54
yigalluke-jr: what should I do about it, move to Europe?01:54
luke-jrXisdibik: lol01:54
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luke-jryigal: dunno, I'm hoping to get Linux on a HTC Touch Pro 2 personally01:54
luke-jryigal: or might just tether a cheap Bluetooth phone w/ Pandora, dunno01:55
yigalluke-jr: I wanted linux on a viliv ex 7001:55
yigalbut that isn't going to happen01:55
luke-jrwhy not?01:55
yigalthe touchscreen drivers01:55
Xisdibikluke-jr: because of his attitude ;)01:55
yigalit's always the same01:55
yigalbasically anything that would be an incredible device with linux is not in reality linux capable01:56
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yigalI've studied for over two weeks umpc mids on umpcportal, and I've come to the conclusion that the n900 is the best choice01:56
yigalI'm already comfortable and impressed with maemo, it's a nice environment functional on a tablet, and integrating this on a phone is a nice idea01:57
yigalin any event sorry for being so loquacious01:58
luke-jryigal: 2 weeks is nothing :p01:58
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yigalevery day spending 2 hours or so, it's enough in my mind01:59
dmj7261ogre on an omap301:59
yigaldmj7261: pretty sweet :)01:59
dmj7261wait...that's just ogl 1.102:00
* luke-jr has been looking at devices for months now, and can't find one that suits his needs.02:00
yigalluke-jr: no I've been looking for years, I'm just talking about recently it has come to my attention that it is time to actually purchase a new device02:01
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yigalis there another place to look or has Dell stopped selling the n900?02:05
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crashanddieyigal, why would you want to buy the N900 from Dell?02:06
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lcukcrashanddie, price02:06
yigalcrashanddie: because it's $100 cheaper via dell $440 or so02:08
SmilybOrghi guys, i'm having problems setting up folder sharing :|02:08
GeneralAntillesyigal, they take them off their website once all of the ones they have are sold.02:08
GeneralAntillesyigal, so it probably wont be back until after it ships.02:08
yigalGeneralAntilles: well at least it's selling02:08
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crashanddieSmilybOrg, our balls ain't made out of crystal, mind being a bit more specific?02:10
dmj7261It seems to me that the n900 is selling well enough to likely be considered at least a mild success.02:10
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, can I get a mask?02:10
* crashanddie tries to ignore naysayers comments02:10
SmilybOrgyeah, i'm wondering if i have to do something extra in windows (the host system) apart from running eclipse02:11
SmilybOrgjust a moment, i'm going to paste the error02:11
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crashanddieSmily, not in here you're not02:11
Smilyi meant into a pastebin :)02:12
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Smilyi can ssh into the maemo machine with putty fine02:14
crashanddieSmily, is that on your NIT or PC?02:16
Smilythat's what esbox displays while trying to validate my virtual machine02:17
crashanddieyou missed a colon02:17
crashanddieis invalid02:18
crashanddiethe colon should be :/path/to/wherever02:18
Smilyuh, i didn't write that, esbox displayed it like that02:18
Smilyi can just enter the addresses and ports02:19
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crashanddieis localhost:2222 a valid port?02:19
crashanddieI mean, is port 2222 forwarded to your computer?02:19
Smilywth, when i show details on the error dialog box, i get this:
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, sure, why not.02:20
GeneralAntillesAs soon as X-Fade gets back from vaaction.02:21
Smilyis that correct?02:21
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, tired of your current one? ;)02:21
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, nah02:21
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, but it has to be cool (the new one)02:21
crashanddieI'm only going for the bling!02:21
Smilycrashanddie i can ssh into the VM with at 2222 fine02:21
Smilyi get the shell02:21
Smilyi assume my share settings are incorrect:
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Smilyalso, there's a nasty error that forces me to forcequit eclipse:
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Smilysince i can't close the dialog box and i can't use eclipse because there's a dialog opened :|02:28
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* timeless_mbp sigh02:33
* timeless_mbp should have signed up for this thing a month ago02:33
timeless_mbphey, who lives in .uk?02:33
Xisdibikdot uk?  is that different than uk?02:34
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crashanddieif you want your N900 to ship, go go now02:35
crashanddietimeless, I do, why?02:35
Xisdibikwho was I talking to the other day about the Ovi Maps routing plugin being bollocksed for Firefox 3.602:35
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: maybe ;)02:38
Xisdibikdoes it not work in 3.5 also?02:39
Xisdibikno, it works, or doesnt :P02:39
timeless_mbpthe problem is that the obsoleted before ff1.0 api was finally removed for ff3.602:39
timeless_mbpso anything before ff3.6 would "mostly work"02:39
XisdibikIm gathering then that its just theres no plugin whatsoever for linux? as im using 3.5 now and it said plugin not compatible :P02:39
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timeless_mbptry wine?02:40
Xisdibikim not in any rush so its ok02:40
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timeless_mbpso.... technically their sources exist for linux, which is how it can build for maemo02:40
timeless_mbpbut they're under no obligation to expose it via maps.ovi.com02:41
timeless_mbpand given how poor it is, i'm not going to ask them to do so02:41
Xisdibiktimeless_mbp: haha yea, but once they put out the new correct one on the new API, hopefully they will put out a linux one as well02:41
timeless_mbpif wishes were horses...02:41
b-man17  - doing a complete rewrite of mer-installer in pygtk :)02:43
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doc|homeis mer usable (stable) now?03:22
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lubomirquick question: is it possible to connect and use an external gps bluetooth mouse?03:29
lubomirwith android linux thats not possible03:30
ShadowJKi suspect the pointer remains invisible :)03:30
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crashanddieexternal gps bluetooth mouse?03:31
ShadowJKwait what03:31
ShadowJKlubomir, do you mean bluetooth mouse or do you mean bluetooth gps?03:31
lubomirShadowJK, okay, when you ask like that - both. I also have an bluetooth laser mouse and i also cant use it with android :P03:32
lubomirbut the question was about bluetooth gps03:32
lcukhow does a gps mouse work?03:32
ShadowJKbluetooth gps works with N800 N810 atleast03:32
viqlcuk: it has a rather poor resolution ;)03:33
lubomirlcuk, in germany most people tells it "gps mouse"03:33
lubomirthe external bluetooth gps03:33
lcukoh those03:33
qwerty12_N900Control Panel -> Location still has a03:34
qwerty12_N900"GPS Device" option03:34
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crashanddielubomir, DONGLE03:34
lubomirqwerty12_N900, where you could chose between internal and external?03:34
crashanddielubomir, a mouse is either a rodent or the thing you move your pointer with03:35
lubomircrashanddie, i know. i also dont understand why nearly everyone in germany tells it mouse03:35
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qwerty12_N900lubomir: yes03:35
crashanddielubomir, probably the same reason you guys calls a mobile phone a "handy"03:36
lubomircrashanddie, i have not choosen those things :D03:36
qwerty12_N900lubomir: Although, provided you have a network signal, the internal one is brilliant at getting a lock03:36
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lubomirqwerty12_N900, yea, the one in most phones is realy good and usable but i need special external bluetooth gps with high sensitivity03:38
kalikianatolicrashanddie, how is a "mouse" less silly than a gps "mouse"? :)03:38
qwerty12_N900lubomir: Ah03:38
lubomirthanks. i start more and more to hate that stupid android. sooo many basic things that was "just normal" for me doesnt work there03:39
kalikianatolicrashanddie, and before you answer, consider "shell", "cookie" and "root" ;)03:40
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kalikianatolialthough it makes me wonder, is a mouse pointer any useful on the device?03:41
crashanddiekalikianatoli, are you actually trying to pick a fight?03:41
crashanddiekalikianatoli, nha, and not usable anyway03:42
crashanddieIIRC there's some crazy shit that makes it 10 kinds of hard to show the pointer in the first place03:42
kalikianatolicrashanddie, if you fight too much I might not be awake enough at this hour, so maybe not :P03:42
crashanddiekalikianatoli, it wasn't so much for the use of mouse, as it was for the misuse of mouse03:43
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, learning python?03:43
kalikianatolicrashanddie, think of "shell" and the number of things it can mean. then you realize it's not unusal03:44
kalikianatoliit can mean a console, a start menu, a whole desktop03:44
crashanddiekalikianatoli, the shell really is the thing that wraps around the kernel, so yeah, it is actually quite appropriate03:44
crashanddieI don't know in which world shell means start menu or desktop03:45
kalikianatoliI mean shell as an example of something that is used in a lot of different meanings03:45
kalikianatolicrashanddie, in the world of redmond :)03:45
crashanddieoh, windows has a shell now?03:45
crashanddiethey probably did it to promote the petrol company03:45
crashanddieSo with Windows 7, people are going to be shellshocked?03:46
kalikianatoliit's called that since 95 I think, but it can't hurt to come up with new slogans03:46
Robot101been called the shell since windows 3.x at least03:51
Robot101dos 6.2 had "dosshell" too03:51
Robot101which was GR803:51
crashanddiecowgirl is the best position, gives the man hands-free. Kinda like sexual bluetooth.03:52
lubomirDoes someone know what mobile network chipset is been there inside? Does it realy support only 10,2mbit down and 2mbit up?03:54
lubomiror could it support 14,4 and 5,76 with firmware upgrade?03:55
dmj7261zaheerm: I'm having a hard time figuring out how to make GTK animate.  Any thoughts?03:57
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Robot101dmj7261: in general, gtk doesn't animate.03:59
kalikianatolidmj7261, there's no animation in gtk unless you us an additional lib for that04:00
dmj7261Hmm...perhaps just write it in clutter then04:00
aephmm battery life worries me on the n90004:00
kalikianatoliyou could look at the animation something, can't remember what it's called04:00
dmj7261kalikianatoli: any other clues as to where I might find that?04:01
Robot101dmj7261: clutter-gtk allows some hacks with animations using gtk for most stuff04:01
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GeneralAntillesaep, it depends entirely on what you do with it.04:09
lubomirwoooow, adblock plus is available for maemo..., someone like to have an android? :p04:09
kynkyaep, carry a spare battery ?04:11
aepGeneralAntilles: well play games all day? heh kidding. but idle for more then 8 hours would be nice...04:12
aepkynky: i guess, but thats rather annoying04:13
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kynkyaep, true, but at least an option(comparing situation to iphone)04:13
GeneralAntillesaep, I get "idle" of 2-4 days.04:14
* kynky wonders if there will be mega batteries for n900 04:14
aepGeneralAntilles: hm thats actually ok04:16
aepmaybe people are doing it wrong04:16
luke-jrI get idle of about 3 hours IIRC04:17
luke-jrmaybe a few more if I stretch it (GPS/WiFi off, etc)04:17
luke-jrN810 tho04:18
aepyeah n810 :P04:18
aepi guess i'll actually have to carry around my old phone too04:18
GeneralAntillesaep, whose claims are you following?04:19
GeneralAntillesaep, I get 8-16 hours of moderate to heavy use.04:19
GeneralAntillesIdle on EDGE/WiFI 24/704:19
aeprandom blogs.04:19
aep8 hours on heavy use? oO04:19
aepthats alot!04:20
GeneralAntillesaep, yeah, random blogs are just that, random.04:20
GeneralAntillesaep, heck, I get 4-6 hours of video playback.04:20
GeneralAntillesDepending on how heavy they are and whether they're streamed.04:20
ali1234i get about 4 hours on the snes emulator which is pretty heavy04:20
DocScrutinizerstill idle with GSM standby is mostly a function of local BTS RF situation04:22
DocScrutinizercan vary from less than 24h to I guess >7 days04:22
DocScrutinizertalktime same btw04:23
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ShadowJKluke-jr, what's "idle" there?04:25
ShadowJKit sounds terrible even if it'd be idle with screen on04:25
DocScrutinizerworst thing for standby time is to drive the device around in a car, as this causes frequent cell handovers and TX power needs to ramp up to get out of the car04:26
ShadowJKIRC sometimes becomes effective battery killer depending on RF conditions too :/04:26
ShadowJKsometimes the radio just never gets rest04:26
DocScrutinizerthat is basically same as call then04:27
ShadowJKBut sometimes the radio is just active for a second at a time :)04:27
ShadowJKNot all 3G networks are configured the same, not all networks are configured the same throughout their geographical coverage, either :/04:28
DocScrutinizersure, though I'm not aware of intra-network local diffs wrt GPRS04:29
DocScrutinizerexcept for max thruput of course04:29
ShadowJKEnergy Profiler on S60 has this thing that shows timers04:29
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ZippyHi guys!  Simple question.  I have an app that requires python.  How do I install this?  root and then apt-get install python isn't finding it in Xterm.04:38
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luke-jrShadowJK: "idle" for me tends to be kismet :)04:42
luke-jrShadowJK: I don't think my screen ever turns off completely04:42
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SveinnHello !! :)06:12
Sveinnany N900 users here?06:12
Sveinnslash developers06:12
pupnik_testing stuff06:13
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Sveinnhi pupnik06:17
Sveinnhow is your gps on your N900, any problems}06:17
pupnik_first day it was pretty bad getting a lock.  later days it worked ok06:18
pupnik_better than n810 later-on06:18
pupnik_map looked fine to me06:19
pupnik_i think im at 42 deg lat06:20
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Sveinnsometimes it works smoothly for me06:20
Sveinnbut often I cant get a fix at all06:20
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Sveinnworries me because i am trying to implement the location feature in my program06:21
Sveinnmaybe i just have to update my firmware06:21
Sveinndo you have the latest version06:21
pupnik_i have only tried a few days, but those were many hours gps testing06:21
Chanicrud, I'd totally forgotten about how badly gps works06:21
pupnik_just the summit proto version tested so far06:22
Sveinni guess i have the prototype as well06:22
Sveinnknow of two people who were unable to get a fix at all06:22
pupnik_meaning you dont know where it came from?06:22
`0660i wouldn't be surprised if they delayed the launch because of that gps fix problem06:23
pupnik_i dont know. other phone goses dont work everywhere06:24
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`0660i thought some people had serious problems with the proto version gps?06:25
`0660like not getting a fix for days06:25
pupnik_look at the available space.  i cant believe the miniaturization of that stuff06:25
pupnik_dunno. pop a sim in the ohone then06:25
pupnik_you werent planning to fly your learjet instrument-only using n900?06:28
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Sveinnthat was my program actually06:29
pupnik_ooh weather radar would be fun on maps06:29
`0660yes i was! :)06:29
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dmj7261anyone having luck using clutter via python?06:49
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* microlith sighs as he sees nokia holding $1400 on his account07:31
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dmj7261I'm having a hard time embedding non-gtk widgits using python.08:24
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JosefAssadhm. I've apt-get installed rootsh and when I type sudo gainroot in osso-xterm I get "sudo: must be setuid root". Am I missing something obvious?09:37
JosefAssad(this being in the SDK, no device)09:37
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RST38hqwerty, are you there?09:46
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RST38hqwerty: Do you have an altar where we can sacrifice a goat to you, or something?10:05
qwerty12_N900Not that I know of, no :)10:05
dmj7261python[31743]: GLIB WARNING ** ClutterX11 - clutter_x11_disable_event_retrieval should be called before clutter_init10:05
RST38hqwerty: Should get one quick (in ref to bug #5300)10:06
povbotBug Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager10:06
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dmj7261then I get python[31769]: GLIB CRITICAL ** CLutterGLX - Unable to make the stage window 0x1e00017 the current GLX drawable10:07
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Heh, well, since Nokia are staying silent on the issue, I hope someone finds that patch useful :)10:08
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RST38hqwerty: Can we somehow commit it back to their codebase? =)10:08
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dmj7261Any ideas?10:09
dmj7261Anyone using cluttergtk that might have and idea what would cause this?10:09
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Probably not going to happen. :p Patching File manager directly and not having to use dlopen() would be better :)10:10
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dmj7261any ideas what this is about? python[31769]: GLIB CRITICAL ** CLutterGLX - Unable to make the stage window 0x1e00017 the current GLX drawable10:48
tigertJosefAssad: try "root"10:48
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JosefAssadtigert: did, no go10:56
RST38hWeird: app manager shows 4 packages updated, but it lists only three10:57
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RST38hOk, FM Radio app goes off this n900. Too large, does not update properly11:03
* qwerty12 facepalms at
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RST38hYea, the Venomrush character is kinda funny11:07
RST38hTried to claim Bullshit Bingo is politically incorrect, etc11:07
* qwerty12 likes the name, actually...11:08
dmj7261me too, though I could see a use for a PG version too11:09
* RST38h wishes all PC afficionados just killed themselves11:10
RST38hThey make the environment really rotten for everyone11:10
dmj7261RST38h: That's not a very politically correct thing to say!11:11
Jaffamorning, all11:11
* qwerty12 waves at Jaffa 11:11
Jaffaqwerty12: Is that link going to reinforce my opinion of tmo? ;-)11:12
JaffaGah. Web just crashed posting a comment in midgard.11:12
qwerty12Jaffa: No, it's just the SDK being touted as an "emulator"11:12
JaffaAh. Saw that on Twitter.11:12
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chris231989n770;join /#ubuntu11:15
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* Stskeeps ponders idly on the chinook-diablo conspiracy11:17
qwerty12Stskeeps: Morning. Here's another theory to add to the mix: You, using your recently-gained distmaster powers, sabotaged the Diablo autobuilder so people would switch to Mer! /s11:19
JaffaStskeeps: "conspiracy"?11:20
qwerty12Jaffa: It's on Talk. You sure you wish to see the thread?11:20
JaffaOh yes11:20
qwerty12Don't say you were not warned:
Stskeepsqwerty12: i don't even have ssh to :P11:21
qwerty12Stskeeps: Sure, you just keep telling us that and we may start to believe it...11:22
JosefAssadIPN I'd guess going by the average response time...11:24
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Jaffaqwerty12: This thread is great. It's putting me off all over again (and the links to "Maemo Extras" -> " Applications" -> "" pisses me off on a whole other level)11:29
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qwerty12Jaffa: We need to add details of Nokia's plot to activate the N800 and N810's self-destruction mechanism once the N900 is widely-available11:31
qwerty12Morning, wazd_11:31
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SpeedEvilqwerty12: Why do you think the battery charging module is closed-source?11:32
wazd_heya maemo11:32
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wazd_it's tough to be a pirate :(11:33
qwerty12SpeedEvil: You've just got me scared :\11:33
StskeepsSpeedEvil: i think its due to 1) patents/IP 2) how much damage a not-thought-out patch can do11:33
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timeless_mbpproduct liability11:34
SpeedEvil1) is bullshit largely.11:34
timeless_mbpif you manage to cause a battery to explose11:34
SpeedEvilThere isn't any magic in battery charging.11:34
infobottimeless_mbp meant: if you manage to caude a battery to explose11:34
SpeedEvilAnd it's trivially easy to monitor what it's in fact doing11:35
timeless_mbpoh brother11:35
timeless_mbpif you manage to cause a battery to explode11:35
* qwerty12 gives timeless_mbp a cookie11:35
timeless_mbppeople won't stop and ask "was this n900 running unofficial software"11:35
timeless_mbpthey'll say "Nokia n900 explodes"11:35
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timeless_mbp"news at 11"11:35
timeless_mbp(no news will come at 11, and people will remember Nokia + battery explosion)11:35
timeless_mbpthere's pretty much nothing Nokia can do to counter such press11:36
timeless_mbpand the investigation would determine that ~Nokia was aware that third parties could install software which would enable their batteries to explode~11:36
* lbt notes that it already happens a lot with phones and is "old news"11:36
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timeless_mbpit's never _good_ news11:37
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dmj7261And you would then get FUD about how dangerous open source is.11:37
lbtthe solution... ban OSS11:37
timeless_mbpdmj7261: oh, yeah, that too11:37
lbtgood idea :)11:37
dmj7261regardless of the fact that both open and closed software stacks can be involved with exploding batteries.11:37
timeless_mbppersonally, my view is that the hardware shouldn't support exploding stacks11:38
dmj7261nobody would think of the fact that that logic means we should also ban proprietary software.11:38
timeless_mbpbut if you want that, you're basically siding with closed source firmware11:38
lbttimeless_mbp: what about melting CPUs?11:38
timeless_mbpeither as real bits burned into the hardware, or as closed software bits11:38
lbtis that OK?11:38
timeless_mbpit hardly matters11:38
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lbtN900 CPU melts11:38
timeless_mbplbt: you mean from overclocking?11:38
timeless_mbpyeah, imo that's ok11:39
timeless_mbphow many people do you kill w/ a melted cpu?11:39
timeless_mbpv. how many people can you kill with an exploding battery?11:39
* lbt notes that N900 != WMD11:39
timeless_mbpsomething tells me the battery is more likely to be effective at killing than a melted cpu11:39
dmj7261Of course you could go with super-closed software...only God knows how it works! :P11:39
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Stskeepsi'm personally more afraid of oss rewrites of the thing11:40
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* lbt wonders when voltage monitoring software became assasination tool11:40
* RST38h moos11:40
timeless_mbpdmj7261: scientists recently made Female nematodes into hermaphrodites11:40
timeless_mbpdoes that count as super closed?11:40
timeless_mbplbt: keep in mind that cellular phones have been used for assassinations11:41
lbtOk, who uses VirtualBox and clones machines?11:41
lbttimeless_mbp: using OSS ?11:41
dmj7261can you charge your battery from a female nematode?11:41
lbtso, clearly OSS is not a factor.11:41
timeless_mbpI use vbox11:41
lbtI can't change my MAC11:41
Stskeepslbt, only on mer imager creating vmdks11:41
timeless_mbpjust noting that phones can be effective at killing people :)11:41
lbtI can use settings->NW->Advanced to change it but when I restart the MAC is the same11:42
qwerty12dmj7261: Gah, the innuendo from that one is killing me11:42
dmj7261so can bricks11:42
lbtdmj7261: now they at least are CC11:42
lbtor PD11:42
lbtunless the brick had a patented anti-mortar slip chamfer?11:43
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* RST38h sighs and notes that you can't seriously discuss all the gibberish produced by every stupid hack around the world, including so called "professional bloggers"11:45
dmj7261unfortunately that gibberish what a lot of people pay heed to.11:46
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RST38h(having said that, the thought of 4-5 Li-based batteries going off on a plane in mid-air is delicious)11:46
qwerty12Oh, anyone noticed how isn't a default bookmark on the N900 but it was on the default homepage for Diablo's browser? :)11:46
RST38hdmj7261: by seriously discussing this crap you join those people.11:46
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dmj7261Honestly, I don't spend much time thinking about exploding batteries.11:47
lbtnm the MAC thing - it was an OS override11:50
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* RST38h has been bitten by an unsigned int11:58
dmj7261Anyone have a clue on what's wrong with this code (other than messyness)?12:01
gnutonHi there! :D12:01
dmj7261it gives some glx errors when I run it.12:01
RST38hmoo gnuton12:02
gnutonCiao RST38h ;D12:02
Stskeepslbt, virtualbox 3.1 will have live migration it seems12:05
dmj7261I'm finding this frustrating12:06
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cvandonderenHi, will the firmware that is on the devices being shipped currently also be released (a.k.a. can I update my dev-N900 to the release firmware any time soon?)12:10
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lbtStskeeps: *nod*.... it does make it easy to setup new VMs... convirt is pretty good too though12:15
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* Stskeeps starts migrating data to his fileserver in order to prepare for his new laptop12:19
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millenomi(dum dum dum, silently keeps working on his Cocotron ARM port, dum dum)12:22
millenomiworks pretty well on my ebook reader :)12:23
wazd_I've downloaded wrong MW2!12:26
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mikhasthe one for the n900? how is that wrong?12:26
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wazd_epic fail :(12:29
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millenomiah, maybe somebody can help on this12:34
millenomiGCC 4.x doesn't have atomic primitives on ARM afaik12:34
millenomiI "fixed" this by using a pthreads mutex, which is correct but stupid. is there a better way to do a compare and swap on ARM?12:34
millenomistupid == obviously much slower than true CAS.12:35
Stskeepsrst38h might know12:36
millenomithe objc runtime must be threadsafe in order for threads to work with it, so it uses atomic CAS in a few critical places12:36
millenomimaking every message (method call) lock a mutex is not optimal, to say the least.12:37
wazd_damn, 11gb of wrong info, so lame :(12:39
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Stskeepsdownloaded over gprs? ;p12:41
dmj7261wazd: pretty crisp screen12:41
dmj7261of course 8gb won't hold much 720p12:42
dmj7261was that your epic fail comment?12:43
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Flyser_dmj7261: I gues he means the lack of h264 encoding12:46
dmj7261just give the n900 that screen and I'll be happy!12:46
Flyser_Because one could easiely upgrade the storage12:46
Flyser_hehe m2 :-)12:46
dmj7261what OS does that 720 gadget use?12:48
dmj7261cause it would be kinda silly if it could only play video.12:49
Flyser_its a 180$ device ... I doubt it can do anything else ...12:49
dmj7261hmm...not worth ~$200 bucks if that's all it does.12:50
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RST38h"To continue his work on the Orion rocket, Zuppero needs it justified by attachment to weapons analyses. A boss first asks if it's possible to tow an unshielded nuclear reactor behind an airplane so it spews radioactivity over the Soviet Union or Vietnam."12:52
RST38hAh, the golden 60s...12:53
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RST38h"Although I really did find a way to power the rockets to take13:01
RST38hhundreds of us throughout the solar system, the only product of my13:01
RST38hentire career struggle working in so-called "rocket science," was13:01
RST38hthat people wanted to hear the story.13:01
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dmj7261You know what would make a great app?13:02
dmj7261A web comic viewer13:02
dmj7261...that worked offline too and could search13:03
RurouniJonesisn't that called a web-broswer? :p13:03
fralsRurouniJones: thats what i was thinking13:03
RurouniJonesSorry, facaetious I know, could't resist :P13:03
* millenomi is working on a fullsize comic viewer on his ebook reader.13:03
dmj7261yes, I know about the web browser thing13:03
* millenomi is working on a fullsize comic viewer on his ebook reader.13:04
dmj7261Would it be maemoizable?13:04
millenomino, I'd have to rewrite the UI in Qt13:04
millenomi(new projects need Qt, right?)13:04
dmj7261not necessarily13:04
millenomibut I happen to prefer it :)13:05
dmj7261GTK isn't disappearing, but it wont' be official13:05
millenomiI come from a Cocoa background and Qt is, uh, "Cocoa-shaped?"13:05
millenomiI wrap my head around it more easily.13:05
RurouniJonesWhen are qT apps gonna have hildon'ish widgets so they look like the stuff you can do in GTK now?13:05
RST38hdmj7261: comic viewers for Maemo exist.13:05
millenomiI heard there was a preview out now13:06
RST38hdmj7261: google?13:06
* qwerty12 adds to his spam list. The "page $PRODUCT has been commented by (anonymous)" e-mails are fucking ridiculous.13:06
RST38hI mean, that was an obvious first step, wasn't it?13:06
dmj7261yeah, but is being slow13:06
dmj7261and i did a bit of google13:06
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RST38hqwerty: True, but it also looks like someone is voting for the products out of malice13:07
RST38hqwerty: Or there is a bug at, because I cannot explain how I can receive 10 votes for AlmostTI in 3 minutes13:07
qwerty12RST38h: That may be so, but since I can't do fuck all about the votes, I'd prefer not to have a shitton of e-mails in my inbox telling me of the fact13:07
RST38hqwerty: Actually, you can13:08
RST38hqwerty: By restricting voting for registered users, so that each user can only vote once13:08
qwerty12RST38h: "since I can't do fuck all about the votes"13:09
qwerty12I see no option allowing me to restrict who can vote on a certain product :)13:10
RST38hYea, that thing should not be an option indeed, should be done by site admins13:10
suihkulokkiqwerty12: you should request that in bugzilla13:11
RurouniJonesAs well as general email management settings?13:11
qwerty12suihkulokki: Good idea, thanks13:11
RurouniJones"Email me in the following situations. checkbox, checkbox, checkbox etc"13:12
suihkulokki"never mail anything from anonymous people" I think would be good too13:12
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RurouniJonesAnyone tried playing SCUMMVM games on a N900? Seems like adventure games are ideal for a stylus style input13:24
RurouniJonesone ggoogle search later...yes13:26
CorsacI tried dott on n810 and it works fine13:26
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cvandonderenHow can I add applets to the statusbar?13:56
cvandonderenmaemo5-load-applet does not show...13:56
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lbtwhat's the status of maemo-optify?14:00
lbtit's only in extras-devel according to
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BluesLeelbt: i guess the app is to move the installation to the sd card, right?14:05
RST38hAnyone with N900 here?14:05
lbtBluesLee: yes14:05
lbtRST38h: yes14:05
RST38hlbt: I am sorry to ask, but could you test/vote for a few apps of mine?14:06
RST38hlbt: MG, Speccy, fMSX, ColEm14:06
BluesLeelbt: it would be nice to have the choice while installing the app through the app manager or to set it there "destination: internal flash, sd card or whatever"14:06
* lbt notes favour in his accounts14:06
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RST38hHeh =)14:07
RST38hSpeccy/fMSX can be tested as they are (come with system bios)14:07
lbtBluesLee: theres' been a lot of disccusion14:07
RST38hFor MG/ColEm, there are free legal ROMs at www.pdroms.com14:08
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lbtRST38h: maybe put up a wiki page to step-by-step it for new users?14:11
RST38hlbt: It is really as easy as opening a proper file14:12
RST38hin fact, the program will ask you to choose a file on startup :)14:13
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RST38hEHLO VDVsx14:15
VDVsxhey RST38h14:16
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pupniki like -devel a lot14:22
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pupnikcanse then im never drustrated at a bug14:23
pupnikwow " morning typos14:23
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Stskeepshaving your device in r&d mode is good for winters. warms your hands.14:29
CoreFusion-8h29minutes and counting :P14:30
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pupniki had n900 on overnight with open webpages, apps, term and it is at q/2 battery14:31
CoreFusion-sorry, 6h14:31
CoreFusion-13:10 -!- Laiska [] has joined #maemo14:32
RST38hpupnik: Check this one out:
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RST38hpupnik: You may like it =)14:33
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pupnikbut the apps were all apps that know how to idle of course14:35
lbtso RST38h... I installed it and it says "Nut"14:36
lbtas I said, what now?14:36
lbtMG btw14:36
lbtI have no clue what the app needs. What do I download? from where?14:37
dmj7261zaheerm: You know python zope?14:38
dmj7261What's wrong with it on Maemo?14:39
RST38hlbt: You download from
RST38hlbt: or from
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CoreFusion-hmm.. does anyone know where i could watch bbc2 in the internet, live?14:40
CoreFusion-outside UK?14:40
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kynkyiplayer through a proxy ?14:41
kynkybut guess not live14:41
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pupniki was interested in project orion for a while.  there are nice interviews of some of the members RST38h .  old man saying "i really thought we were going to see jupiter in my lifetime14:44
dmj7261BOunce is completely closed source, right?14:44
RST38hpupnik: it was 60s14:44
kynkyCoreFusion-, think there might be some flas channels showing bbc2, but never used them myself14:45
pupnikwhat app do i use on n900 to automatically grab öy favorite podcasts?14:45
pupnikbuiltin function or gpodder?14:46
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dmj7261zaheerm: I was trying to run a python program on Maemo and it gave an import error: no module named zope.interface14:54
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dmj7261I saw that you were the maintainer for it.14:54
dmj7261What seems to be the issue with it?14:54
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MacerStskeeps: ?15:09
Maceryou there?15:09
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StskeepsMacer: ?15:10
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wazdreheya all15:15
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MacerStskeeps: msg :-P15:23
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MacerStskeeps: !!15:26
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timelessok, the xref for should work15:30
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timelesssearch is broken and will have to wait for the next sync15:30
timelessphone oo-power -bye15:31
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wazdIRC explanation?)15:35
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timeless_awayhello world15:38
* RST38h moos at wazd15:40
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wazdRST38h: have you registered to that nokia store event btw?15:42
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RST38hwazd: Yep15:45
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wazdRST38h: cool :)15:46
RST38hwazd: you did too?15:46
* RST38h checks what day Nov 24 is15:46
wazdRST38h: Yep15:46
wazdRST38h: wonder if there will be any competent person  on nokia's side15:47
RST38hwazd: I expect something similar to Nokia Camp15:47
wazdRST38h: yep, tuesday kinda sucks15:47
RST38hwazd: I.e. PR event15:47
RST38hWhat time on Tuesday though?15:47
wazdRST38h: tba15:48
wazdRST38h: I bet there will be epic whining on bloggers side "why no capacitive screen")15:50
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wazdAnd what else do they mention all the time...15:52
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RST38hwazd: These will be Russian bloggers15:54
RST38hwazd: So we can expect a lot of amateurish attempts at ass licking in anticipation of freebies =)15:55
wazdRST38h: they're all the same, it's like a virus)15:55
RST38hWell, I guess so...15:55
* RST38h has not been to a similar event outside .RU, so he does not know, but yes, people ain't that different everywhere15:56
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wazdRST38h: oh, no Intell parties? :)15:56
RST38hwazd: Actually, there ARE Intel parties =)15:57
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RST38hwazd: There is at least an annual developers' conference in .RU, and some other events too15:57
RST38hlast one was in nnov15:57
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pupnikhopefully the freebies will inspire some productive developments16:01
RST38hfrom bloggers? are you joking?16:01
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pupnikwhat fps does q3a timedemo get on pandora vs Nokia N900 vs beagleboard?16:01
wazdpupnik: bloggers?)16:01
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mikhasmost often read claim? That you cannot use the n900 single-handed, I bet =)16:02
wazdThat would be super awesome if bloggers will really get one16:02
mikhaswhich is funny in several ways16:02
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RST38hmikhas: Actually, I suspect you CAN use it one-handed, with a lanyard16:03
mikhas1. you cannot use any portrait mode model with *both* hands, unless you are girl16:03
RST38hmikhas: The same way you use a small camera16:03
mikhas2. I use my n900 one-handed all the time, for phone calls16:03
mikhasand even for e-mail reading16:03
RST38h"Unlike iPhone, does not have MMS!"16:04
rangeNow if the hardware keyboard were capacitive ...16:04
RST38hand bigger, like twice bigger...16:04
kynkyis mms that useful considering the size of the photos the n900 can capture ?16:04
mikhasit is useful16:04
rangeFor the frontcam :)16:04
RST38hMMS is useless gimmick in no relation to the photos size16:04
mikhasfor carriers16:05
RST38hVery few people use MMS. MMS messages are usually super-expensive too16:05
mikhasyou forget how all those bloggers are employed by carriers, obviously =)16:05
RST38hmikhas: Which ones? Local ones? Not employed by anybody important16:05
mikhasat least that's what I would do16:05
kynkyjust upload simutaneoesly to a number of image hosting sevices instead, prob be cheaper too16:05
mikhasit works amazingly good16:06
RST38hkynky: But then your aunt and her LG phone cannot get your photo16:06
RST38h(at least that is the most common explanation for why you need MMS)16:06
wazdDamn, my n800 screen will really die soon. That afterburn effect is pretty weird16:06
kynkymms is ripoff16:06
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RST38hwazd: Should have asked for screen protector16:07
RST38hwazd: But I guess it is too late now =(16:07
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wazdRST38h: not sure if it's a scratches issue16:08
kynkymore like the othr side of screen issue ?16:08
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* lcuk yawns16:09
zerojayMMS is just another gimmick the carriers created to charge you more for the same data voice uses, plain and simple.16:09
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wazdRST38h: looks more like failling lcd switcher16:11
* lbt wonders if they'll implenent a telegram app to go with MMS and fax16:11
wazdRST38h: and it appears absolutely random16:11
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lcuklbt, it best have a proper morse buttong then16:12
lbttouch screen silly16:13
lcukfake morse button then16:13
lbtshould be an easter egg in the mms app16:13
thuxbut if no mms support how would mobile viruses spread?16:13
lcukjust like any other meme16:13
RST38hthux: through Torrent of course!16:13
lcukadhoc wifi16:14
lcukplenty of transport tunnels16:14
wazdGod bless resistive screen and stylus16:14
lcukbut whats the payload16:14
wazdSo cold out there16:14
lcuk+1 wazd16:14
lcukusing device with a snowdrift on it16:14
kynkywazd, they got capacitive touch styli now16:15
kynkydell do one for their first new mobile phone16:15
wazdDamn, where's that bus16:16
kynkyapparntly some ppl say pencils work cos of graphite16:16
lcukwow, photo of the new dell tablet
Ceron^ i want this kind 3d screen on my n90016:19
lcukwouldnt that be a little dangerous16:19
lcukits uber cool tho16:20
lcukin a display cabinet16:20
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RST38huntil that mirror goes off flying =)16:26
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* javispedro sighs at tmo16:31
Corsacdamn, why is my n810 asking me for a password when ssh'ing now?16:32
Corsacwho did erase my public key?16:32
RST38hwhat now?16:34
Corsachmhmh, fun, key is there but it still wants a password16:34
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javispedrosomeone spamming nearly all the threads I'm subscribed into with "a emulators recap" thread, a thread about using Scratchbox to "test the N900", etc.16:35
RST38hThe Venom guy, who else? =)16:35
javispedroah, the Venom is the one using sbox for nonsense16:36
javispedroanwarboy is the emus one16:36
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RST38hI see the anwarboy spammer, yea16:37
javispedrofortunately, I have patience -- no need to shun myself from anything yet.16:37
RST38hAnd he is not even getting his facts right :)16:37
* RST38h wonders how Reggie would feel about restricting new members to a subset of forums for the first 2-3 months...16:38
RST38hWould probably be too restrictive though :(16:39
alteregoThat's not fair realy.16:39
RST38hBut on the other hand the current situation is pretty destructive too16:39
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javispedrothere's no solution for this problem.16:40
javispedroI've been admin of a site where the average poster age was 13, for nearly 5 years.16:41
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RurouniJonesWhen were you committed?16:41
RurouniJonesAnd when were you released?16:41
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javispedrowhat kind of question is that? :)16:41
lcukwin them over with good quality threads16:41
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lcukinstead of bemoaning the fact theres crap, lets plan an offensive raid16:42
RurouniJonesI cannot imagine nayone retaining sanity admin'ning that forum16:42
Corsacdamn, asking google about theora support in n810 empathy now returns my unanswered post in talk ><16:42
SpeedEvilAutoban for misspelled words >5%, or average wordlength under 6.16:42
RST38hlcuk: Ok, you show us the way, go forward and win them over =)16:43
lcukit takes more than one, but its better than sitting doing nothing and watching it go down16:43
RST38hSpeed: Usage of the word "like" more than twice in a single post should be made punishable =)16:43
RST38hSame goes for using "I" more than three times16:43
javispedroRurouniJones: the trick is to get proper staff and don't try to fix things when the "values" on your forum slip away from your moral standards16:44
* RST38h puts on his grammar nazi uniform16:44
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* javispedro hides16:45
javispedro7 tail whip?16:45
crashanddieRST38h, why is "I" banned more than 3 times?16:45
RST38hcrashanddie: 'cause using it too much is a sign of an overblown ego16:46
crashanddieWell, I don't see why I shouldn't be to use "I" as much as I want16:46
RST38hcrashanddie: But we do :)16:47
crashanddieplus, having a bit of ego is healthy16:47
crashanddiejust make sure it fits in the building16:47
* RST38h goes over the allowed uses of "we": 1) Chief editors 2) Royalties 3) People with tape worms16:47
crashanddieso freddy mercury had tape worms?16:48
javispedroRST38h: being Venom16:48
RST38hcrashanddie: Most US high schoolers come to the universities with egos the size of the Mt Doom16:48
n000bthe plural of 'royalty' is 'royalty'. tsk tsk16:48
* RST38h hides16:48
RurouniJonesWe are not amused16:48
crashanddien000b, no it's not16:48
RST38hcrashanddie: So, they get that "I" beaten out of them during ENGL10116:49
crashanddien000b, "royalties", as in usage-based payments is a valid use of the word16:49
derfMost of the students with egos skip ENGL101.16:49
RST38hcrashanddie: But, before that happens, "I" and "like" make for very good filter rules ;)16:49
RST38hderf: Well, you can't do that really16:49
crashanddieRST38h, ever seen that poem?16:49
derfYou could where I went to school.16:50
RST38hderf: You can take it while in high school, but can't skip it16:50
RST38hcrashanddie: No, which one?16:50
derfDecent HS english grades got you out of freshman English.16:50
derfNo one audited the HS english classes to see if they actually taught anything.16:50
RST38hderf: Oh16:50
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n000bcrashanddie: hmm... if money could talk...16:51
RST38hcrashanddie: why am I feeling that someone SHOULD HAVE said all that ? =)16:52
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crashanddieRST38h, this is another one from Taylor Mali which is worth watching:
derfRST38h: I suspect it was a consequence of having too many engineering students and not enough English professors. Since it's hard to hire professors for the sole purpose of teaching freshman English sections.16:55
RST38hderf: I actually took 101 at ...mhm... a community college :)16:56
lcukCrystal ball thread:
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* RST38h strokes his crystal balls16:57
RST38hlcuk: So, willing to bet at which point iPhone will be mentioned?16:57
lcukwell you just godwined it yourself, do you want one?16:58
RST38hAn iPhone? No, not really :(16:58
lcukthen post what you would like16:58
RST38hlcuk: But you probably know what I want - I want Startrek PADDs of all sizes16:58
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RST38hAll right, let us play this game for a change =)16:58
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lcukcrashanddie, you are normally vocal, get in on the crystal ball thread o_O :D
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crashanddiepeople are using my words now?17:05
lcuktry it17:05
crashanddienot an interesting thread17:06
crashanddielcuk, speculation makes a spec out of u and some guy named lation17:06
RST38hcrashanddie: In fact, lcuk may be correct with his subject choice17:07
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RST38hcrashanddie: If he intends to pull off all those Oct2009ers into that thread17:07
javispedroand then ban them? :)17:07
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javispedroit's a trap!17:07
RST38hHow interesting it is for the regulars is irrelevant17:07
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lcuklol RST38h you make it sound like regulars are living their perfect future now with no ambition or thought about what they would like!17:11
lcuki know its good, but its not everything :D17:11
RST38hlcuk: No, I make it sound like regulars are pretty tired of discussing "the future of internet tablets" now17:11
RST38hit is more or less like discussing the existance of absence of God17:12
lcukgod is banned for 10 days, sorry17:12
RST38hBTW, yea, so we have a definite answer to this one17:12
lcukwe found out yesterday he exists and hes a pita17:12
RST38hnothing medication can't fix though17:12
* lcuk facepalms17:14
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crashanddielcuk, done17:19
crashanddielcuk, never tell me I didn't do anything for you17:19
lcukcrashanddie, you never did anything for me.17:20
mavhcyou won't get drugged for believing in invisible things as long as you say they don't actually do anything17:20
bcathi, does anyone know when updated ESBox and/or Pluthon versions will be out? The integration builds are still based on Eclipse 3.4 and Pydev
bcatand I'm not able to update Pydev by manually adding the update site (version conflict with the one coming with ESBox).17:22
lcukcrashanddie, have you got a ticket in the system about the BES support etc and are you talking to the right people often enough17:22
crashanddielcuk, no, no17:23
crashanddielcuk, when I attended the "business apps" talk at the summit, it was a bit of a joke17:23
crashanddiethe guy talked about how he read his emails in bed, and how he had his music playlist for his walk to the office17:24
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crashanddiewhen I asked about "Exchange Integration" they said it was there, but it doesn't work (for emails, hah, the joke!)17:24
crashanddiewhen I asked about VPN support, or meeting-makers, they said they never thought about it17:24
* lcuk nods17:25
javispedrobah, the business edition is no longer where the money is. or at least, that's what companies think.17:26
lcukand hence why your sim remains in your blackberry right now17:26
javispedrowhich is a pity, truly. I liked PDAs better when they were suited for suits17:26
ShadowJKmy biggest gripe with S60 is the crap VPN support17:26
* ShadowJK needs VPN :/17:26
javispedrowhich is something ironic considering I've never used it for business, but still.17:26
crashanddiejavispedro, because the nxx0 never had anything making it usable?17:27
lcukfinding the right balance with the software stack is important, this platform is capable with the right planning17:27
crashanddieyeah, it definitely is17:27
RST38hactually, Nokia's "budget" line still has good phones17:27
crashanddiebut my company is having wet feet because it doesn't have a business appeal17:27
javispedrono, because "business" for me is just plain email, not working in any company using anything propietary yet17:28
RST38hcrashanddie: what are you making, anyway?17:28
crashanddieI'm working my ass off in my free time trying to get some of my company products working on the N900, and I'm making very good progress, but it's not funded by the company17:28
* javispedro doesn't even use the phone much17:28
crashanddieRST38h, we're in IT security17:28
RST38hcrashanddie: oh ok17:28
RST38hI think there WAS at least one business case for a security scanning suite running on N80017:29
crashanddieI need USB OTG though17:29
RST38hThey took a standard N800, installed their software and sold it for $$$$$$17:29
crashanddieWith what I've done on the platform, if I can get USB OTG, I can sell the N900 to 2 million people across the US ;)17:30
RST38hcan't you supply power externally?17:31
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ShadowJKi think there's more to it than power..17:31
lcukyou can prove concept with bt17:31
viqwhat is USB OTG ?17:31
lcukor even with n81017:31
crashanddielcuk, concept is proven17:31
lcukshow it working, put a proposal together17:32
Stskeepscrashanddie: investigate sdio maybe17:32
RST38hshow it working to Nokia17:32
ShadowJKUSB OTG is impossible. The hardware isn't connected. USB Host might be possible, maybe :)17:32
RST38hNamely, to QGil and friends17:32
crashanddieStskeeps, we're already using the SD port17:32
RST38hMake it a case for OTG17:32
Stskeepscrashanddie: beyond 32 gb internal, and the ext minisd? :P17:32
* lcuk nods @ rst17:32
RST38hAlthough I have heard that the chances are slim17:32
lcukit might be right now17:33
RST38hIt is a hardware limitation they can't work around in software17:33
VDVsxQ: what looks better for a project name: Support for Bluetooth keyboards or Bluetooth keyboards support or <name_it>17:33
ShadowJKfirst one is better17:33
RST38hVDVsx: Bluetooth Keyboard Enabler17:33
RST38hBTW, Apple BT keyboards do not work =(17:34
VDVsxRST38h, seems a bit more geeky no ?17:34
ShadowJKapple is a special case of broken...17:34
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ShadowJKsurprisingly Microsoft's hardware is usually very good and compatible with everything :-)17:35
RST38hVDVsx: No, the "enabler" thing bring the sense of resolution17:35
* VDVsx sends the bluetooth specs to Steve ;)17:35
RST38hVDVsx: Like an enema can be called "a gastric enabler" =)17:35
ShadowJKhow about just "Bluetooth Keyboard"17:35
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lcukVDVsx, on which device and for what17:36
lcuki thought bt keyboards were a done and dusted deal?17:36
VDVsxlcuk, no you've to mess with the system files17:36
VDVsxnot good for 'regular' users, IMO17:37
RST38hcrashanddie: is that what you make? =)17:37
crashanddieRST38h, no, but you get the idea17:37
lcuk"bluetooth configurator to leverage the power of tactile input devices"17:37
* ShadowJK shoots lcuk 17:37
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lcukmy dcim folder is massive17:40
crashanddieflickr ftw17:40
lcukyou only post your best shots to flickr17:41
crashanddienope, everything goes on there17:41
lcuki am used to coming home after an event and just clicking one button and dropping everything off machine17:41
lcukill have to setup the same for this17:42
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Only if you have a pro account17:42
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Or do under 100M/mo of photos17:42
lcukand i like my photos nearby17:42
crashanddiewhich costs like £18 for a year17:42
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: true.17:42
crashanddieso £1.2 / month17:42
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: but flickr blows in many ways, so I'm unwilling to spend the money.17:42
lcukdont you have to select each pic to upload17:42
wazdlcuk: windows does this, like, for all media stuff17:43
lcukwazd, it never did with my stuff in the way i wanted, ive got folders containing each holiday/event ive ever been to17:43
lcukcurrently that folder contains about 20gb of my digital life17:44
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SpeedEvilbacked up I hope17:44
* lcuk nods17:44
lcukdvd ftw17:44
lcukmultiple times17:44
lcukover the years17:44
wazdPrinted photos ftw :)17:45
lcukas longas stored in reasonable dated books i agree wazd17:46
lcukif they are just dropped into a shoebox their value deminishes17:47
wazdWell, anything dropped in a shoe box has demenished value :P17:48
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lcukapart from new shoes :D my missus loves em lol17:48
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wazdMy Adobe Lightroom cries "No! No again!" every time I come back with d-slr17:51
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lcukheh how powerful is your home machine?17:51
wazdPowerful, but usually I shoot out 2x16 Gb CFs17:52
wazdAnd that's a lot to copy)17:53
lcukyeah but im on an amd 3200+ crappy cpu with 2gb mem only, what spec are you upto?17:53
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wazdX2 4200, 4gb ram17:54
lcukdo you use dedicated card reader or just copy via usb2/firewire or whatever the rage is now17:54
wazdUsb from  the camera17:54
wazdSame as card-reader17:55
lcukheh, my xp box has given up knowing its got usb2 and moans every day17:55
lcukits faster now to copy via ssh17:55
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RST38hlcuk: Heh, you only managed to attract one Oct2009er18:00
lcukso far18:00
RST38hWith expected comment too18:00
* lcuk shrugs.18:00
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lcuklike i said, it takes more than one18:01
lcukbut at least im not just sitting back moaning :)18:01
RST38hlet's wait and see =)18:01
* lcuk nods18:01
* RST38h moans melodically18:01
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RST38hlcuk: Seen that memoir by the nuclear propulsion guy?18:10
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pupnikfrom sweden?18:13
RST38hNo, the american guy, you have seen it18:13
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lcukpost link, cant remember if seen18:14
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kurtanfrals_: there?18:27
timeless_mbpok. search index is transfering, there's one minor bug in the results page that i know of18:28
timeless_mbpbut it should transfer in a bit18:28
kurtangod damit, the N900 is better then i thought..18:29
kurtanthe wait is worth it18:29
* kurtan got to play with it for a while today 18:29
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kurtanits a natural irc-device18:30
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aSIMULAteran IRCers dream come true18:34
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RST38haSIMULAter: Frankly, letters are too small and/or there are too few of 'em =)18:36
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kurtanreally, i'll probably make the font even smaller when i get my own18:36
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KlownerI hope amazon starts shipping soon18:37
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trbscan I show a banner without the need of a GtkWidget as defined in hildon_banner_show_information () ?18:43
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aSIMULAterthey physical kb has never really been an issue with my fingers cause they're small anyways18:44
RST38hkeyboard is no problem, true18:44
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RST38hscreen is though18:44
aSIMULAterscreen's ok for me, i even have my font at 10pt in terminal18:45
qwerty12trbs: If this is for Fremantle, NULL works. Giving it a widget just makes the banner transient for a window18:45
aSIMULAterit could be a tiny bit bigger but18:45
aSIMULAternot my call hehe18:45
trbsqwerty12, thanks, yeah it's Fremantle.. then I must be doing something else wrong cause it's spitting out glib errors18:46
javispedrohow's the nokia conspiracy for not allowing any more diablo apps in the repos going?18:47
qwerty12trbs: Ah, I've only checked on the device, where GLib errors don't seem to be visible...18:47
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pupnikqwerty12: what do you use for "pipe" char on N900 - anything i can google?18:50
qwerty12pupnik: I just press the pipe character on the symbol selection dialog...18:51
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pupnikit is time to remap18:51
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pupnikaaand the winner of the Least Important Character is.....18:56
pupnikheh close ...the British Pound!18:56
* qwerty12 grumbles at pupnik 18:57
ShadowJKhow about z, you can type everything with s instead and appear as some sort of intellectual pompous twit18:57
* javispedro runs out of lesser important characters18:57
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rangesero impact for the sany english language.18:58
qwerty12Remapping the N810 keyboard was easy: Just remove the Yen18:58
ShadowJKc too, use k18:58
* RST38h votes for the poind sign18:58
RST38hNobody really needs anything but the $ sign =)18:59
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alteregoBut the pound is worth quite a bit more than the dollar ..18:59
lcukwithout pund sing how would all the twats make hashtags?19:00
* lcuk is dyslexic today19:00
rangeI think he means the pound sterling thingy - but that could be replaced with EUR.19:00
RST38hNo, I mean the f thing, not the #19:00
derfThis is why God invented the Compose key.19:01
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RST38hJust replace 'em all with the bug sign19:02
RST38hAnd be done with it19:02
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pupnikhere, check my n900 live direct video feed!
qwerty12Put some clothes on!19:07
mikhasobject not found19:07
pupnik... exactly19:07
lcukpupnik, install webcam server software on your server19:08
lcukand it will work19:08
lcukor can rather19:08
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pupnikno live video feed for n900.  qik is not the answer :)19:08
mikhasthat screen on the homepage's background is pretty impressive ..19:09
pupnikit is indeed  .. 22" iiyama diamondtron19:10
pupnikjust need shutterglasses...19:11
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pupniksome sdl aps from n800 seem to "just run" on n90p19:20
javispedroof course, not much has changed19:20
javispedrothe worst part is Xsp19:20
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RST38hXsp improved, hasn't it?19:22
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javispedrowell, I don' have hardware, but it's been said to me it just blacks the screen when composited and does nothing when not composited.19:22
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Stskeepsanyone did x11vnc on n900 yet?19:27
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lcukStskeeps, the server side?19:28
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Stskeepsso i can have a n900 window on my desktop19:29
lcuknot seen yet19:29
lcukisnt it a bit different now with the compositing etc19:29
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pupnikpingus could run 15-20fps but it has some memory problems19:44
pupnikruns smooth, jerky, smooth19:45
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* b-man17 wonders if Stskeeps still has the old Deblet installer laying around somewhere.. some of the code snippets could be useful for accessing system tools :)19:54
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infobotI herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power19:57
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Chaniheh. my n900 won't let me go offline20:06
Chaniit's not really online either, though20:06
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RST38hChani; Switch into Airplane Mode (with all radios off), then back20:11
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pancakehow can I run a command as root in a hildon app?20:12
Stskeepssudo? :P20:12
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ShadowJKheh, a airplanemode cycle still required now and hten on n900? same as S60 then :)20:14
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RST38hHmmm....the script kiddie got to iNES =)20:16
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RST38hLooks like he is artificially lowering the the votes for every single app in the Maemo5 Downloads list, except for the fresh ones, to which he apparently has not got yet20:18
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RST38hShadowJK: I had to do it a few times, usually after GPRS got stuck between some towers20:20
ShadowJKsounds familiar20:20
ShadowJKsadly the system seems to be so overengineered that the operator and handset manufacturer can blame eachother indefinitely20:21
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pancakeany idea about how can I run a command as root in a hildon app?20:23
ShadowJKwith my s60 phone it only happens on one operator, though I haven't used it as extensively on the non-buggy operator...20:23
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RST38hhappens to me in a single location at my way to work20:24
RST38hactually, n900 only breaks gprs connection there, usually20:24
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RST38he70 needed an off/on cycle for radios and sometimes even rebooted20:25
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sp3000pancake: an option is to ship a simple safe suid executable and call that20:26
sp3000and try to not make it do arbitrary things :)20:27
* sp3000 reorders a few words20:27
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pupnikpancake: maybe the app needs SUID = root20:28
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lcukpancake, generally one does not run root into mordor20:29
pupnikor maybe it really shouldnt do whatever you are thinking-of20:29
pancakebut it is not much clear for the platform20:29
lcukbut what reason do you need dangerous things20:29
pancakei mean, there is gksudo and stuff like this20:29
pancakegnome-keyring and so20:29
pupnikhmm cool20:29
RST38hwhy do you need a reason to do dangerous things, lcuk?20:30
pancakesetup bluetooth20:30
sp3000yeah I don't know if those exist here20:30
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sp3000something more than what you can get via gconf / dbus?20:31
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lcukRST38h, just understanding how it works and wanting to do as much as possible as user rather than just generically stepping to root20:31
pupnikyes, a well defined api is better than "give me root"20:31
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sp3000if something built-in twiddles the same bits you want to twiddle then monitoring dbus / gconf while operating those guis might be helpful20:34
sp3000if it's something quite diffrerent then possibly not so helpful :)20:34
timeless_mbp now featuring /fremantle20:35
* Stskeeps rather enjoys x11vnc of n900 on his linux desktop20:37
Stskeepsnow if the cursor handling was better..20:37
dmj7261zaheerm: I was trying to run a python program on Maemo and it gave an import error: no module named zope.interface20:37
dmj7261I saw that you were the maintainer for it.20:37
dmj7261What seems to be the issue with it?20:37
timeless_mbpStskeeps: if someone could possibly verify that things are ok, that'd be appreciated :)20:37
javispedroI just searched a few keywords and seems to answer them.20:40
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javispedrotimeless: btw, mxr could also index garage projects using git ;)20:43
timeless_mbpjavispedro: do projects convert20:44
timeless_mbpor is there a new list?20:44
timeless_mbpi had a number of problems w/ garage20:44
timeless_mbpone of them is that i hate svn (it's incredibly expensive disk wise)20:45
javispedrodunno how it works....20:45
timeless_mbpanother was that calculating repo roots and a list of repos was computational expensive20:45
timeless_mbp(it involved sequential brute force attacks on quasi well known urls)20:45
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timeless_mbpthe computer i used to stage fremantle has limited disk space and is *not* designated for nokia work20:46
timeless_mbp(and doesn't have anywhere near the space required to index garage)20:46
timeless_mbpnormally i'd use my work computer, but it kinda decayed ages ago and i hadn't spent the time rebuilding it20:47
timeless_mbpfor garage, the stuff there should still work20:47
timeless_mbpso i could probably do it20:47
timeless_mbpbut i'd still need to figure out the git bits20:47
timeless_mbpplus there's maemo.gitorious.org20:47
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pupnikStskeeps: can aou share the x11vnc config/bin?20:51
Stskeepspupnik: x11vnc from -devel20:51
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CoreFusion- :) playing around with "virtual maemo 5"20:53
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CoreFusion-looking good :)20:58
pupnikStskeeps: i thought you meant you had a vnc of n900 desktop21:01
pupnikkind of an ugly thought21:02
Stskeeps ai do21:02
Stskeepsi do21:02
Stskeepsmedia player :P21:02
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pwnguiniNES is on maemo select?21:04
pwnguinthat seems like lawsuit bait21:04
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* sp3000 giggles at the "rating" column sorter21:10
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sp3000the first click sorts if ascending, so you get the lowest rated on top21:10
sp3000that's probably exactly what was expected/desired :P21:10
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ProteousI hate sorts that give you the wrong direction first21:13
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, egads that's obnoxious.21:28
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qwerty12_N900Some context, please? :)21:29
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qwerty12_N900Evening, Anidel21:29
Anidelhey qwerty12, good evening to you as well21:30
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lcukhey qwerty12_N900 Anidel21:30
Anidelhi lcuk21:30
qwerty12_N900Evening, lcuk21:30
lcukhi GeneralAntilles as well \o21:31
* Anidel nods21:31
* lcuk was asked a question the other day21:31
* Anidel doesn't care about lcuk question.. but, alas, what was it?21:31
lcukand im not sure who in the community would be mental enough to manage it21:31
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lcukill talk to you on tuesday about it i think Anidel21:34
lcukqwerty12_N900, are you goin to london doofer21:34
Anidelso you're coming???21:35
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lcuki think so21:35
lcukbut i havent had confirmation yet21:35
Anidelthat'd be cool21:36
lcukindeed it would, lots of beer, playing with toys and i might finally get an n900 :D lol21:37
Anidel? what? you don't have it yet???21:37
lcuklol ofc i have :P21:37
lcukbut i do need to swap mine21:37
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lcukits a bit borkened and whenever i try to plug it into a projector it has a shit21:38
Anideleheh :) but I'll win it :p not you21:38
lcukits rather offputting21:38
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Anidellike it did at the summit21:38
lcukworst thing is it worked at ODZ and it works here at home21:39
lcukbut no other projector manages it21:39
lcuk*for more than about 2s21:39
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, the Diablo conspiracy.21:39
qwerty12_N900GeneralAntilles: Yeah...21:40
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vandenoeverwhere can i find the firmware this blog talks about?
lcukwith the nokia software updater of course21:45
lcuklike the blog talks about21:45
crashanddievandenoever, from the article you linked to: "so I connected via Nokia PC Suite this morning and ran the Nokia Software Updater to discover an update was indeed available. I just downloaded the 161.4 MB file and updated the Nokia N900 to firmware 1.2009.42.11."21:46
lcukbut then, if you are one of the 300 with loaned devices:21:46
lcukAndrew Flegg21:46
lcukNovember 13, 200921:46
lcukApparently, the version in “About Product” will change (flashed into CAL); however the upgrade itself won’t apply:21:46
lcuk(thanks jaffa!)21:46
lcuk- last line21:46
crashanddielcuk, paste fail21:46
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vandenoeverlcuk: i've a loaner ..21:47
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vandenoeveri wouldnt mind reflashing21:48
lcukread the post21:48
lcukAnidel, how did you manage to reflash?   ahhhh you didnt have a device from the summit did you21:49
qwerty12_N900lcuk: I call bollocks. My hildon-desktop version is newer, at least.21:49
Anidelno, I had one earlier...21:49
Anidelbut did it via windows and NSU21:49
vandenoeverright so, lcuk, it needs a full flash21:50
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: can i get you to give me a version of the cpa that passes the extra parent xid?21:51
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: btw, please try :)21:51
AnidelI've read of a guy on talk that did upgrade his via nsu21:51
lcukive heard scattered reports too21:52
lcukbut we dont know which is which, if it wont flash it wont flash21:52
lcukand official folks have said that it wont so, what can we really do \o/21:52
Anideltry :)21:53
timeless_mbpwon't what?21:53
lcukflash yet21:53
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: I'll get around to it later, tonight21:53
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* timeless_mbp sighs21:55
timeless_mbpwhat kind of description is 'gypsy'?21:55
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rangeA terse one.21:58
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: it's legal for me to file a bug against that, right?21:59
Stskeepserr.. sure, why not21:59
timeless_mbp3.4.1 The single line synopsis22:00
timeless_mbpThe single line synopsis should be kept brief - certainly under 80 characters.22:00
timeless_mbpDo not include the package name in the synopsis line. The display software knows how to display this already, and you do not need to state it. Remember that in many situations the user may only see the synopsis line - make it as informative as you can.22:00
* timeless_mbp wonders where the heck to file this bug22:01
Proteousshort for do not install22:01
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: internal would probably be the best shot22:02
timeless_mbpthere's no fun in that22:02
timeless_mbpit's probably an upstream bug anyway22:02
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Stskeepsnah, looks like nokia packaging22:02
timeless_mbpfiling it internally won't get it fixed faster :)22:02
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rangeI don't see a package "gypsy" on a bog standard debian.22:04
rangeWhich does not not make it an upstream bug, sure.22:05
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: if it was debian packaging i'm almost willing to bet it wouldn't get through..22:05
timeless_mbpStskeeps: ...22:05
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timeless_mbprange: if you have time to go hunting and can figure out if there's an upstream debian/control description ...22:06
Stskeeps(due to policy checks)22:06
timeless_mbp13 Package: alsa-utils22:06
timeless_mbp19 Description: ALSA utilities22:06
timeless_mbpoh sure, that's mighty helpful22:06
Stskeepswell, it is exact..22:07
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timeless_mbpit useless the same words as in the package name, which violates policy22:07
timeless_mbpadding a couple of letters does not a helpful description make22:08
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: fair warning, i'm stuffing my bug totals :)22:08
timeless_mbpother people are free to play along, the barrel's full, you can join me in shooting them:
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timeless_mbpminor warning /sometimes/ the description given isn't from debian/control and is instead from e.g. README, so always look into the directory :)22:09
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timeless_mbpdo i want to know why gcc3.4 and gcc4.2 are in the repo?22:09
timeless_mbpgcc-3.4/ - Nov 2 2006 The GNU C compiler22:10
timeless_mbpgcc-4.2/ - Jun 25 12:19 The GNU C compiler22:10
timeless_mbpgcc-defaults/ - Dec 18 2007 The GNU C preprocessor (cpp)22:10
Stskeepslibgcc and such22:10
Stskeepsand for legal reasons22:10
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, I'm betting Peter's talking about CMT stuff.22:10
qwerty12_N900flasher-3.5 said my CMT was happily flashed22:11
GeneralAntillesAlso: Peter could be full of it.22:11
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: yeah but your method is saner than direct NSU update22:11
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, flasher-3.5 --help22:11
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I don't recall what the acronym is for right now, but it isn't Country Music Television.22:12
GeneralAntillesDamnit, where's Andre when you need him?22:12
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qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: If it downloads the same files... But, then again, flasher-3.5 is much more specialised WRT the N900, than NSU is22:12
Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: yeah - and NSU might need some changes in nolo or whatever :P22:13
* GeneralAntilles finds it funny that whenever Karsten or Andre make blog posts about Bugzilla somebody always comments asking them if they're planning on forwarding things to upstream (some more trollish than others).22:13
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GeneralAntillesARM9 netbook22:14
GeneralAntillesWhat's the point?22:14
* timeless_mbp would have to find their blog's22:15
GeneralAntillesPutting an ARM11 in there aint gonna make it much more expensive.22:15
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, Planet, of course.22:15
timeless_mbphrm, that fell off my reading ages ago22:15
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GeneralAntillesIn this case, the one just after Khertan's PyGTK post.22:15
rangetimeless_mbp: Upstream for that package seems to be o-hand.com22:15
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rangeAnd they have Description: GPS multiplexing daemon22:16
range+ A GPS multiplexing daemon using DBus.22:16
timeless_mbprange: if you have a bugzilla account, you could make a suggestion or provide a patch :)22:16
GeneralAntillesSadly since the whole "Planet should be for consumers, too!" push the SNR on Planet has gone in the shitter.22:16
timeless_mbpsignal noise22:16
* timeless_mbp is sleeping ...22:16
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, IRC sleep walking?22:17
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rangetimeless_mbp: I am a redhat person, not a debian one. Just happens that my irc client runs on debian :)22:17
timeless_mbpi fall asleep on the couch22:17
timeless_mbpno walking requierd22:17
timeless_mbprange: hopefully you can earn karma by posting patches22:17
timeless_mbpif not, file a bug (+karma) asking to :)22:17
* qwerty12_N900 better get some for his work on #530022:18
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: the upstream request by mkanat is about hacks to bugzilla22:18
timeless_mbpsince he's the bugzilla upstream22:18
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lcukbug #530022:19
povbotBug Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager22:19
lcukyes qwerty lol, you should22:19
rangetimeless_mbp: So you didn't find a component to file it against either? :)22:20
timeless_mbprange: i'm not having much luck22:20
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, yes, I know, but I find it funny that whenever they make a blog post there's always comments about forwarding to upstream.22:20
lcuktimeless, how long do these mxrs take to update22:20
timeless_mbpif you don't have editbugs and think you can do better, let me know22:20
GeneralAntillesEither Bugzilla, Debian or elsewise.22:20
rangetimeless_mbp: Probably location. I'll file one.22:20
timeless_mbprange: oh, i filed bugs22:20
timeless_mbpi just couldn't find places22:20
rangeHar. Har :)22:21
wazdqwerty12_N900: no you shouldn't! You should work on transmission! Now!1122:21
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qwerty12_N900wazd: But I must defend our freedom! I shall not be restricted to just sending video clips and images!22:22
wazdqwerty12_N900: ah, ok then :D22:23
lcukmultitransport video clips and images22:23
lcukthe lolcats must get through22:23
GAN900How is h-a-m slower than the frickin web browser?22:23
timeless_mbpGAN900: =)22:23
timeless_mbpapt is expensive :)22:23
timeless_mbphey, i'm 99% certain there's a rule against using sentences in the one line description22:24
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timeless_mbpanyone know where i can find that rule?22:24
lcuk /msg jeremiah22:24
lcukusually works22:24
GAN900timeless_mbp, fm-radio is mostly Python libs, by the way.22:24
alteregoThat bluetooth file sending capability, how on Earth has that not been in from the start?22:24
timeless_mbpGAN900: um, ... ok, did i ask about it?22:24
GAN900lcuk, or just ping him publicly so everybody can benefit from the logs later on. ;)22:25
timeless_mbpalterego: it was removed22:25
timeless_mbpthe reasons for its removal are um...22:25
SpeedEvilToo complicated.22:25
GAN900Somebody complained about it being big in scrollback.22:25
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* timeless_mbp looks for a lawyer22:25
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Stskeepswb javispedro22:27
timeless_mbplcuk: i was just tehre22:27
timeless_mbpit didn't seem to help22:27
lcukwell you cannot get any more official than that source22:27
lcukso if its not mentioned there..22:27
lcukhey javis22:27
* javispedro adds smbd and nmbd to his tablet's inetd.conf just because he can :)22:28
wazdjavispedro: heya22:28
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qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: Does /usr/bin/pick-locale-<whatever> return anything other than 0?22:29
qwerty12_N900Hiya, javispedro22:29
timeless_mbpor at least, not intentionally22:29
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qwerty12_N900Suits me :)22:29
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timeless_mbp8 Package: hildon-control-panel22:31
timeless_mbp16 Description: Hildon Control Panel22:31
timeless_mbpnow there's a great description!22:31
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rangetimeless_mbp: #619822:33
timeless_mbprange: if you write "bug 6198" the bot will do something22:33
povbotBug Description field of gypsy just doubles the name22:33
* timeless_mbp sighs22:33
timeless_mbprange: sorry, i tried to say i filed that bug22:35
timeless_mbpnext time please search/check the links i provide :)22:35
timeless_mbpyou now have editbugs (and canconfirm), so you can file 'new' bugs and should be careful to avoid filing duplicates :)22:35
rangetimeless_mbp: Argh :)22:36
rangetimeless_mbp: Yeah, I didn't quite follow, as you were two bugs further already.22:36
timeless_mbpmy fault, i should have dropped bug numbers instead of cute query urls22:36
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lcukis it possible to have the bot actually post info on new bugs?22:39
lcukive seen integration similar before, but from a buildbot22:39
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timeless_mbpit's possible22:40
timeless_mbpdo you really want it?22:40
lcukwell theres lots of talk of bugs atm22:42
alteregoHow about #maemo-bugs ?22:42
timeless_mbpa dedicated channel is typically a better idea22:43
timeless_mbpotherwise it ends up being too spammy22:43
alteregoMy thoughts exactly22:43
* lcuk nods22:44
timeless_mbpif you're interested in bugs22:44
timeless_mbpyou can watch the active filers :)22:44
alteregoPersonally, I think an RSS feed would be better.22:45
timeless_mbpthat's trivial22:45
timeless_mbpconsider my query22:45
timeless_mbpdrop the reporter if you don't want to limit it to me22:45
alteregoAh, nice22:45
timeless_mbpnote that my query is for bugs that have changed, not bugs that have been reported22:46
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timeless_mbpbut advanced trivially lets you ask for 1d+filed22:46
timeless_mbpadd &chfield=[Bug+creation]22:46
alteregoNice :)22:47
alteregoSo, that then ;)22:47
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timeless_mbpfor sharing, you want to add &ctype=rss at the end22:47
timeless_mbpotherwise some clients won't include the ]22:47
timeless_mbpirc clients are funny about linkification22:48
timeless_mbp(so are mail clients)22:48
alteregoWell, I'm using irssi->screen->ssh22:48
alteregoSo it works pretty good for me :P22:49
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timeless_mbpjust keep in mind that when sharing links (and your goal here is to do just that), you want to ensure the most successful link transmission possible :)22:49
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alteregoThat betteR? :)22:51
timeless_mbpdefinitely safer :)22:51
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timeless_mbpspeaking of getting flagged by debian automatics:23:00
timeless_mbp2 Maintainer: Dafydd Harries <>, Youness Alaoui <>23:00
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timeless_mbp13 Package: libnice023:00
timeless_mbp17 Description: libnice23:00
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javispedrowell, it's a lib and is nice.23:05
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* timeless_mbp frowns23:05
timeless_mbpi really want to see a rule that bans periods23:06
GeneralAntillesFrom short descriptions?23:06
GeneralAntillesMe too.23:06
qwerty12_N900timeless_mbp: Typical male23:06
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BabelOhi all23:07
BabelOi justinstall a fresh scratchbox for aemo5 and setup all. I finshed compiling my qt application but i miss some information about N900 the backlight and gps device in /dev23:09
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alteregoAnyone here got an N900 handy?23:12
alteregoI wanna know how well the extjs framework runs on it.23:12
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timeless_mbpi suppose i should ask how you intend to find out23:20
RST38halterego: It dos not23:20
alteregoOh well.23:21
timeless_mbpEnglish/PackagingTutorial (last edited 2008-10-27 02:49:33 by MichaelSchurter)23:21
timeless_mbpdoesn't sound like a gal23:21
RST38hActually, if you mean the JavaScript version, it may23:21
RST38hJava version does not, no practical Java Runtime23:21
alteregoYes, that's what I mean :P23:21
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* Anidel just booked the flight to Barcelona23:39
timeless_mbpfor the maemo thing?23:40
luke-jrthere's a Maemo thing? :p23:40
Anidelwho else is going from here?23:40
Anidelsee the topic luke23:40
AnidelMaemo-Barcelona Long Weekend23:40
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timeless_mbpwhat's wrong with this picture:23:43
timeless_mbpautomake/ - Nov 12 20:34 A tool for generating GNU Standards-compliant Makefiles.23:43
timeless_mbpautomake1.7/ - Nov 12 20:34 A tool for generating GNU Standards-compliant Makefiles23:43
timeless_mbpautomake1.8/ - Nov 12 20:34 A tool for generating GNU Standards-compliant Makefiles23:43
timeless_mbpautomake1.9/ - Nov 12 20:34 A tool for generating GNU Standards-compliant Makefiles23:43
Anidelthe indentation ? :D23:43
timeless_mbpok, "which of these is not like the others?"23:44
Anidelall of them ? <empty> != <1.7> != <1.8> != <1.9>23:45
* Anidel runs...23:45
RST38hTo rm -rf, all these are alike23:46
* Anidel got it! it's not a picture! it's text !23:47
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* Anidel runs faster...23:47
Firebirdtimeless, the ones with the version numbers are old versions23:49
* Anidel got it again ! it's the '.' at the end of the first one, spotted the difference!23:50
* Anidel runs even faster...23:50
* timeless_mbp gives Anidel a cupie doll23:50
timeless_mbpor perhaps a cookie23:50
* Anidel doesn't trust the bait and runs23:51
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RST38hAnidel: Hey, when is the newest and greatest Xournal with the full UI going to arrive? =)23:52
timeless_mbpoh brother23:53
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* timeless_mbp figures out why the description of [clipboard-manager] is [sync"]23:53
mikhassay, anyone of you know some hildon/qt4.6 api documentation?23:53
Anidelrst38h: when I stop running.. :) the issue is.. I am not good at UIs, so I am not sure how to put all those tools back23:53
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RST38hAnidel: Need help with advice?23:54
GeneralAntillesRST38h, so, after Barcelona? ;)23:54
Anidelrst38h: the UX Meets Code at Barcellona would be great to shed some light..23:54
RST38hAnidel: Ah ok23:54
Anidelrst38h: if you can :)23:54
timeless_mbpmikhas: ? :)23:54
RST38hAnidel: Otherwise, wazd can help you with design/layout and me or qwerty can help with GTK23:54
Anidelcool, I will gather all the tools that needs to be there and we can think how to better organize them23:55
RST38hAnidel: Just give the full list of options you would like to stick there and we will figure sometghing out23:55
* timeless_mbp tries to remember how to file bugs against qt23:55
AnidelI'll have to do that anyway so that I have some material at the hackfest.. I'll post them on the Xournal for Fremantle thread asap23:55
Anidelthen we can do some mockups23:56
AnidelIn the meanwhile I was looking at a brand new feature for Xournal... have a loot at CellWriter23:57
RST38hAnidel: that is a handwriting recognition tha is supposed to go into him?23:57
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Anidelanyone using Nokia Messaging to get mail from their gmail account?23:59

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