IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-11-13

javispedrohey, a user event. cool.00:00
VDVsxzaheerm, yes00:00
VDVsxgo go00:00
mikkov-I would hope that pidgin wasn't spread to 6 user installable packages00:00
zaheerm"Reason for requesting Nokia sponsorship"00:00
javispedro"Primary community project"00:00
Corsachmhm, and can someone with an n900 try a videochat to an empathy client?00:00
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VDVsxzaheerm, "I'm broke " lol00:01
zaheermCorsac, we can't do video chat on n900, gui not setup yet00:01
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VDVsxzaheerm, spent my last peny in an n90000:01
mikkov-Video receiving works at least in google talk00:01
zaheermVDVsx, spent my last pennies on a flight to Amsterdam for Maemo Summit00:01
zaheermmikkov-, it does?00:01
javispedronot yet spent any peny but planinng to spend them in an n90000:02
javispedrowell, or half it at least.00:02
mikkov-With another N8x000:02
VDVsxmikkov-, about the cloak, you will get something like that instead of your IP address : n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty1200:02
VDVsxmikkov-, you only need a registered nickname00:02
mikkov-I don't have one00:03
mikkov-Mikkov is already taken I believe00:03
timeless_mbppeople have been asking when would get the maemo5 sdk00:04
timeless_mbpit should get it tomorrow00:04
javispedropeople, yes :)00:04
javispedrotimeless, ta!00:04 has qt4.5.3 which is just a slight upgrade over the last one00:04
VDVsxmikkov-, Mikkov :No such nick/channel00:04
timeless_mbpsince people somewhere were looking for qt info00:04
qwerty12_N900mikkov: -NickServ- mikkov is not registered.00:05
timeless_mbpactually, i'm not sure if the sdk is really what people want, but i have to assume it is00:05
mikkov-Hmm, some time ago it was :)00:05
* VDVsx got a new email from palm, lol00:05
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zaheermso did I00:06
* javispedro gets nearly four emails from apple a month00:06
javispedroand I don't even own anything apple!00:06
zaheermi still have their sdk on my laptop00:06
* timeless_mbp frowns00:06
timeless_mbpthe package names for this crud are so random00:06
* timeless_mbp considers trying to enforce package name/versioning for directories00:06
javispedroon the other side I own two palm handhelds, registered for all the spam I could get on their website about palmos and its been years since the last palmos email00:06
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VDVsxzaheerm, do have it anymore :)00:07
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qwerty12_N900Oh, mikkov, thanks for the Leafpad changes. Was pleasantly surprised when I updated it :)00:09
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mikkov__qwerty12: try ctrl+P00:10
qwerty12_N900OK, that dialog is not finger-friendly :p00:11
mikkov__you can actually print to pdf (if the button was visible) :)00:11
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mikkov__preview would work if there was evince00:11
mikkov__btw how do you launch the osso pdf viewer?00:12
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zaheermVDVsx, i clicked submit about 10 minutes ago, it is still submitting :) i guess the new servers would be welcomed anytime now :)00:13
Macernet ERROR: service.FAILURE (system failure: ZimbraLdapContext) (cause: PKIX path building failed: unable to find valid certification path to requested target)00:14
qwerty12_N900From an app, the hildon-mime functions would be easiest. Use osso_get_dbus_connection on your OssoContext and pass it to hildon_mime_open_file with a path to a PDF file as the second argument00:14
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VDVsxzaheerm, well, it's normal here, strange00:14
qwerty12_N900^^ mikkov00:14
mikkov__qwerty12: thanks, I'll have to check it out sometimes00:15
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zaheermVDVsx, "Waiting for"00:17
VDVsxmikkov_, humm, checking you answer about leafpad00:17
VDVsxprobably I'm mixing it with other text editor00:17
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VDVsxzaheerm, :(00:18
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mikkov__VDVsx: I kept the menu to quite minimum. There is for example ctrl+j which is not visible00:19
zaheermVDVsx, should i keep waiting or re-submit?00:19
VDVsxzaheerm, better submit the info again00:19
VDVsxzaheerm, you're not in the list yet00:19
zaheermaah it worked immediately this time00:20
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zaheermnow on confirm it is taking its time00:20
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zaheermVDVsx, i got 2 emails :)00:24
VDVsxlol, now I've two zaheerm , eheheh00:24
javispedrodoes that say what it says to me?00:24
zaheermi don't mind double the sponsorship ;)00:25
VDVsxzaheerm, np ;)00:25
VDVsxjavispedro, well done ;)00:25
qwerty12_N900javispedro: I actually remember one forum banning it because (supposedly) there had been cases of people using it finding themselves logged in as another user that also was using it00:26
* VDVsx will name his next dog : google just to see what will happen 00:26
javispedroqwerty12_N900: well, google banning their own official support group, even for such an evil product...00:26
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javispedro(I landed on that page after a click fest due to google's latest invention to break the WWW)00:27
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Macerfound it00:29
Macerwhat a pain in the damn ass00:29
VDVsxjavispedro, btw, why DrNokSnes isn't in extras-testing yet ?00:31
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* javispedro hides00:31
qwerty12_N900VDVsx: +100:31
javispedrowhy idonthaveann900 yet?00:32
qwerty12_N900Nokia obviously deem it presentation-worthy =)00:32
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* VDVsx steals the big real madrid flag under javispedro 00:32
VDVsxyour're not hidden anymore :P00:33
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crashanddieWho would be the person to contact at Nokia for returning N900s ?00:33
VDVsxnokia care ?00:33
crashanddienha, I got it at the summit00:33
VDVsxor a loaned one ?00:33
VDVsxthe name is in the PLA00:33
crashanddielike I still have that00:33
javispedroVDVsx qwerty12_N90: btw, why aren't your votes not in yet ?00:34
lcukcrashanddie, you got your email00:34
crashanddielcuk, about Tuesday?00:34
lcukand what have you done to your n90000:34
VDVsxcrashanddie, I've one here, but it pass protected, lol00:34
VDVsxand I don't know the pass00:34
crashanddielcuk, yeah, don't think I'll be able to make it00:34
* lcuk throws a mushroom @ aSIMULAter 00:35
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qwerty12_N900javispedro: OpenTTD isn't my thing, but I will get around to testing it tomorrow (shoot me if I do not)00:35
javispedroqwerty12_N900: don't worry, you will be shooted either way00:35
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, same here00:35
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javispedroand PLEASE purge the openttd-data -devel package if you have it before installing the -testing ones00:36
VDVsxcrashanddie, but, what happened to your device ? :)00:36
Macernothing beats 20 java threads to start up zimbra00:36
kynkyis ovi store going to be an essential place for n900 apps ? or will they be on too ?00:36
Macerbut i fixed it00:36
VDVsxcrashanddie, better, so you don't need the contact atm :)00:37
lcukcrashanddie, is it working ?00:37
javispedronot all commercial apps will be on (docstogo isn't), and not all lone cowboy coder apps will be on ovi store (at least I don't plan).00:37
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javispedrosupposedly all apps will end up in Maemo Select.00:38
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crashanddielcuk, yup00:38
VDVsxjavispedro, not all00:38
kynkyso ishould ge an ovi account then00:39
javispedroVDVsx: oh, I though there was an automated import process.00:39
VDVsxjavispedro, more or less, I think00:39
VDVsxjavispedro, they said the "best apps"00:40
javispedrowell, SuperTux is there, so they were lying when they say "best apps only" >:)00:40
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VDVsxjavispedro, but if is a automated process it's broken, since some app aren't there00:41
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javispedroheh, just joking of course. Maybe they do select apps.00:41
VDVsxactually, now are, but Jaffa had to poke someone :)00:41
jaemokay, I'm confused00:41
jaemaccording to my N900, the date is, and I quote, "12 Years Ago"00:41
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VDVsxjavispedro, "Maemo *Select*"00:42
javispedroSelect is because they run out of "Store" synonyms00:42
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javispedroStore, Market, Marketplace...00:42
VDVsxjaem, happened in my n810, but can't remember why00:42
greenflyjaem: unix 32bit localtime overflow bug?00:43
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jaemgreenfly, if so, it should say the *date* 12 years ago00:43
jaemnot the literal string, "12 years ago"00:43
jaembecause it can't currently be yesterday, for example00:43
jaemthat makes no sense00:43
VDVsxI had a some problems installing stuff, checked the logs and the issue were the date , lol00:44
* javispedro is reminded of certain phpbb bug where it would say "Today's date is Today."00:44
greenflywell now we are getting into philosophy :)00:44
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* javispedro ponders what qgil meant with "promoting the whole of the long weekend event"00:49
javispedromaybe that's green light for adding the registration url into maemo fansites?00:50
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javispedrojaem: ok, that's funny00:53
javispedroyou're clearly having a FlashForward into the future and your N900 is quielty reminding you what the present date is in a human intuitive form00:54
jaemjavispedro, -snerk-00:54
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jaemthe funny thing is that I can almost see their thought-process... but it's *so* wrong00:54
viqHm, I wonder whether there's a chance of running android apps on maemo00:54
javispedrowell I can't.00:54
lcukjavispedro, whats gonna replace hildon game front end tho00:55
lcukerrr osso00:55
javispedrolcuk: no idea. which is i'm proposing the topic.00:55
javispedroin fact nokia may have in mind something else for m600:55
jaemjavispedro, is the clock FOSS?00:55
javispedros/else/completely different in concept00:55
jaeme.g can I go poke around in it?00:56
wazdqwerty12_N900: looks like your toolbar will stay :)00:56
lcukthey can have 100 concepts between now and release00:56
javispedrojaem: the clock app? I guess not. the clock status bar applet? dunno...00:56
qwerty12_N900wazd: *lights fireworks*00:56
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wazdqwerty12_N900: but it will look different :D00:57
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lcukwazd, heres a thought - verticle bar would look great with needing such a detailed list00:57
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lcukvertical even00:57
* lcuk gahs again00:57
jaemjavispedro, a reboot fixed it00:58
qwerty12_N900javispedro: Nope, Nokia also feel a need to keep that closed =)00:58
jaemqwerty12_N900, aww... I wanted to point at their code and laugh00:58
javispedroyes, like the notes app.00:58
javispedroI ponder if it's 100 lines long? 200?00:59
jaemwell, I suppose you could consider the behaviour I observed a "differentiating feature"00:59
jaemalthough not a desired one00:59
wazdlcuk: bad cause visually different bar elements will be aligned to list items00:59
wazdlcuk: confusing00:59
qwerty12_N900jaem: They knew, twelve years back when they were coding it, what you planned to do and closed it accordingly :p00:59
jaemdoes the N900 have a flux capacitor?00:59
lcukwazd, thats design though, it could be workable01:00
lcukits been quite effective when i want maximum visible space for scrolling01:00
wazdlcuk: and there's no standart maemo5 ui element for vertucal bar01:01
lcukso take the 56pixel topbar and rotate it, its worth a try01:02
wazdand it won't work in portrait mode :)01:02
lcukcourse it would01:02
wazdand it's inconsistent with guidelines )01:02
lcukit stays where it is but effectively becomes a top/bottom bar then01:02
lcuktis just a thought01:03
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wazdsure it is01:04
lcukthey got rid of the sidebar in m4 to make the choice up to the app designer01:04
lcukthey gave us the space to use it01:04
lcukand in some situations a sidebar is a great option :)01:04
* javispedro requests nokia to sponsor his 1.20$ worth trip to the event01:04
lcukjavispedro, is that for bus or for a new pair of flipflops?01:04
javispedrobus >:)01:05
wazdlcuk: sometimes it's surely a nice way to control but not this time01:05
javispedrotube actually01:05
jaemjavispedro, that's cheaper than here01:05
javispedrosingle ticket01:06
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lcukjavispedro, make sure you put the €0.30 for toilet break too :D01:06
wazdwe have like $.80 tickets here :)01:06
javispedrotoilet break back to my home country? :D01:06
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javispedrohi wog01:07
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tarilgood evening01:07
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javispedro"Nokia declares bankruptcy after having to sponsor long weekend participants' toilet breaks"01:08
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jaemwhat?  are they sponsoring dollar bill-toilet paper?01:08
javispedro"It's not my fault I like to piss in the Seichelles Islands!" -- declared one participant01:09
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* VDVsx registers for the maemo-BCN event crossing his fingers :)01:15
* javispedro registers too01:15
javispedrom.o collapses under the load01:15
javispedro^^ above was never released and probably never will.01:16
lbtit's not a phone01:17
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tarilyou mean vmware for maemo?01:21
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corefusion-jaem: No, the N900 doesn't have flux capacitor as the only ones currently existing have been made in a lab.01:21
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tarilflux capacitor?01:23
tarilam i tired?01:23
corefusion-00:49 < jaem> does the N900 have a flux capacitor?01:23
* VDVsx got a email from "nobody" :P01:24
* javispedro too01:24
tarilive got one from my mother01:24
tarili have to go to bed01:24
* javispedro starts spamming about the long weekend event01:24
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lbtwhy javispedro, will there be a long weekend event somewhere...? Do tell me more...01:25
* corefusion- doesn't see any spam about the long weekend event01:26
lcukwhoa, theres a long weekend event occuring?01:26
* javispedro starts spamming _some other places_ about the lw event01:26
kalikianatolicorefusion-, I heard the flux capacitor is what added 2mm in thickness01:26
tarilbye, night01:26
* lbt feels left out01:26
kalikianatoliand made it more expensive :P01:26
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lcukjavispedro awww i was stoked to hear about a lond weekend event01:27
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javispedrolbt: just in case and for all tmo haters: corefusion-, I heard the flux capacitor is what added 2mm in thickness01:27
lcuknow you cant be a tease like that01:27
javispedroI did not want to paste that01:27
corefusion-kalikianatoli: but i thought that there were only 2 lights at the back of the n900, not 3?01:27
javispedrolbt: just in case and for all tmo haters:
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* lbt went to tmo a few minutes ago and saw "OUTSIDE..." and just left01:28
lcukjavispedro, is that the Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend, December 4-6???01:28
lbtsounds good... what's it about javispedro?01:28
javispedroif there's a user event "with media" I guess that means plain users can go doesn't it?01:29
kalikianatolicorefusion-, it has only lights at the front. or maybe I'm not into sci-fi enough to get that one :-)01:29
* lbt decided not to apply .... there's more UI oriented folk out there01:29
javispedrolbt: basically, "ux+code hackfest" + "localization and documentation workshop" + "non-english: n900 'welcome' event, intro to maemo development"01:30
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lbtyeah, me+lcuk were messin with you :)01:30
lcuklbt, having someone who knows his way around qt might be a beneficial thing01:30
corefusion-kalikianatoli: :) the flux capacitor in the back to the future movies had 3 lights that started pulsing with light when the delorean reached 88mph :P01:30
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wazdqwerty12_N900: something like that01:31
kalikianatolicorefusion-, ah :)01:31
VDVsxwazd, where is the IKEA torrent ? :P01:32
corefusion-but referring to the text that i wrote to jaem earlier the real "flux capacitor" is actually a memristor and they have been made in labs01:32
* lbt prefers coloured version.... and thinks that "92% of 342 MB" is better wording01:32
kalikianatoliwazd, you should add "that's a friend's screenshot" when you show these kinds of images :P01:32
wazdkalikianatoli: that's not even a screenshot)01:33
corefusion-where's the ETA?01:33
kalikianatoliin that case you fooled me for good =)01:33
wazdlbt: colors are too distracting I think01:34
kalikianatoliit looks quite nice in any case, I don't see how colours would do any good there01:34
lbtwhilst waiting for a dl, distraction is good ;)01:34
timelesslcuk: have you visited ?01:34
* lcuk is distracted by the bright white %age remaining line01:34
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lcukits brighter than the amount dl so far for some reason01:34
wazdcorefusion-: well, that's a question. RST38h suggested that ETA and downloaded ammount will change each other01:34
wazdcorefusion-: each 5 secs for example01:35
qwerty12_N900wazd: awesome :)01:35
lcukno timeless but i was on there last night looking for something fremantley01:35
timelessit's coming01:35
corefusion-wazd: i see, not a bad idea01:35
wazdcorefusion-: yep01:35
timelessi just grabbed all the sources a few hours ago01:35
* lcuk spies qt on the list now01:35
timelessi need to fix a handful of debian dirs and rename my tree01:36
timelessthen index and sync01:36
* lcuk nods01:36
corefusion-wazd: but isn't 5 seconds a bit long time? i mean, if i just want to check how long it will take until my new linux distro dl is ready i don't want to wait for 5 seconds01:36
timelessyeah, qt was an undocumented tree before :)01:36
wazdcorefusion-: well, it can be 2 :D01:36
lcukso will it be repeated inside fremantle01:36
wazdcorefusion-: exact number is not really important now01:36
lcukor are you gonna manually extract qt stuff01:37
corefusion-wazd: or does it start the cycle from when the program is active, then it could start the cycle showing the ETA, if you get what i mean01:37
wazdqwerty12_N900: now the heavy stuff - all that crazy menus and settings and popups :D01:37
* lcuk is going blind01:38
wazdcorefusion-: I think it's possible01:38
* qwerty12_N900 cries: I did a decent job with the menus :'(01:38
XisdibikDoes anyone know if Ovi Maps Routing Plugin will support Google Chrome sometime soon?01:38
timelessxisdibik: um01:39
wazdqwerty12_N900: yep, but that infinite scrolling is rather bad :)01:39
timelessyou mean the thing that doesn't properly support ff3.601:39
Xisdibiktimeless: um? :)01:39
wazdqwerty12_N900: better divide em into categories01:39
qwerty12_N900wazd: True, true :)01:39
timelessbecause the maps team is composed of idiots?01:39
XisdibikDunno, when i go to ovi maps and click routing, it says my browsers incompatible01:39
Xisdibik(if i use chrome)01:39
timelessdon't worry01:39
timelessit doesn't support ff3.6 either01:40
qwerty12_N900wazd: They did used to be tabbed, but the HIG says to put them in one long pannable dialog...01:40
Xisdibikyea but it supports older FF :P, thats at least something,   its been a while now that they didnt support chrome01:40
timelesslet them fix ff3.6 support first before you worry01:40
wazdqwerty12_N900: btw, obviously you just need to tap the item to open it's details :)01:40
timelessxisdibik: you're looking at it the wrong way01:40
timelessthey picked an obsolete plugin api and implemented it01:41
wazdqwerty12_N900: one of the latest South Park episodes have a nice quote for that cases01:41
Xisdibikshould i be looking at it from the approach that firefox is better? ;)01:41
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timelessno one wants to support that api01:41
Xisdibiki see01:41
timelesse.g. ff dropped it for 3.601:41
Xisdibikso they have to redesign the whole thing01:41
wazdqwerty12_N900: it sounds like "FU, WHALE!!!1" :D01:41
Xisdibikthanks for the infos timeless01:41
timelessthe redesign would in theory be chrome compatible01:41
qwerty12_N900wazd: Works for me :D01:41
timelessalthough testing and support is different01:42
Xisdibikim not even sure which i like better at the moment,  chrome or FF01:42
corefusion-(thinks that the thing i say next is like shooting himself in a leg) Opera for the win!01:42
wazdqwerty12_N900: I'd rather make details as stackable window, not pop-up01:42
Xisdibikcorefusion-: why did you shoot yourself in the foot!  :P01:43
wazdqwerty12_N900: are you serious bout that infinite dragging? Is it really in HIG?)01:44
*** VDVsx changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend - Registrations open -"01:44
corefusion-hmm... seems that my servers clock is 10 mins behind...01:45
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qwerty12_N900wazd: Well, it's saying tabbed dialogs are frowned upon and Modest removed its tabs and just put every option in a pannable dialog. Not sure if it has as much options in its Options dialog, however...01:46
javispedro#7  0x00007f3e7f48ba57 in ?? ()01:48
javispedro   from /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/libflashplayer.so01:48
javispedroalways that .so files01:48
javispedroI hate it.01:48
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wazdok, gtg sleep, cya all01:51
qwerty12_N900thanks again01:52
javispedrocy wazd01:52
timelessis crash-reporter in a repo?01:53
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qwerty12_N900Try SDK repo with the package name "nitro"01:53
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timelessnitro is the old one01:54
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qwerty12_N900Was the package renamed, too?01:54
corefusion-I had an idea for an app, I'll put it here so someone can comment if they wish.. : The app uses the camera and the accelerometer together to help calculating distances and angles between two objects in relation to the ground (or 0 degrees).01:55
corefusion-Only thing that the user would have to give to the program is the distance to the object, using this data I think it should be possible to calculate the distance between the objects01:56
* timeless sighs01:57
timelessstupid debian packagers01:57
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javispedrostupid :)01:57
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javispedrowell, gnite01:57
corefusion-Use the accelerometer to tell the device when it's straight and use somekind of indicator light to tell this to the user, then take a picture of wall for example and then the user marks the spots that will be used for calculations and after this the user inputs the distance to the wall from the camera and the device calculates the distance between the objects and the angle in relation to the earth. Would be useful for putting01:58
qwerty12_N900'night, javispedro01:58
lbt'night all01:58
qwerty12_N900'night, lbt01:58
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* lbt leaves OBS building a gettext that should actually work in Fremantle SDK...01:58
corefusion-I hope that text made sense to someone and not only myself :) As you can see english is not my main language :P02:00
* GeneralAntilles wishes rcadden would stop spamming his rants to Planet.02:01
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qwerty12_N900His reposting of news already on Planet is an annoyance02:02
GeneralAntillesThen there's the freaking Mozilla feed. . . .02:02
corefusion-anyone care to comment? (thinking it was insane)02:02
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jaemcorefusion-, interesting, but I have to wonder why you'd need to use this to measure a distance on, say, a wall, if you have the means of measuring the distance to the wall02:03
jaemor is this for cases where you have the distance given to you?02:03
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: you also run into needing to correct for lens distortion and perspectives02:05
corefusion-jaem: well, for example (the situation when i got this idea) if you are trying to put a shelf on the wall alone, it's not easy to make long measurement without moving the measuring tape02:05
jaemcorefusion-, hmm02:05
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, best one there: androidanme.com02:05
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corefusion-i distance of 97,5cm was that i was trying to measure and i had to measure it 4 times to get it right :P02:06
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: To be _really_ useful, you need to have it work if you set it up on the kickstand, and it say 'up a bit, down a bit, there!'02:06
jaemto be honest, it sounds like an overcomplicated solution for most problems, but it might be interesting to work on  from an experimental point of view02:06
jaemI'd say try it, and see what happens02:06
jaemeven if it's not practical, something else interesting may well come out of it02:06
jaemand if it is, then cool02:06
corefusion-speedevil: haha, true :P but near impossible as you would be standing in the way02:07
SpeedEvilAlso - it's in principle not imposible to use speakers and mic to do sonic ranging02:07
GeneralAntillesToo much spam on Planet. :(02:07
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: Sure - however - if it can recognise a pen held at an angle, and where the tip is, ...02:07
corefusion-jaem: i know it's damn hard to do, but how can an engineer help himself with things like this :P02:08
corefusion-speedevil: well, then the question is, can it?02:08
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jaemcorefusion-, I know exactly what you mean :)02:08
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: optically, it can.02:09
qwerty12_N900GeneralAntilles: Make sure you give X-Fade hell when he gets back for letting Planlet get like this in his absence =)02:09
jaemas I said, go for it!02:09
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: the question is can you write the software02:09
jaemanyhow - dinnering02:09
corefusion-speedevil: i know the answer to that: no :(02:09
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, still better than planet gnome, where most of the posts are about random stuff (trips, my dog, my bike, ...)02:09
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corefusion-I'm no developer :/02:09
qwerty12_N900Has someone ever added a goatse post to Planet?02:10
corefusion-just had an crazy idea and thought to share it here :P02:10
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: also -see
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, I'll just give him qwerty1. :P02:10
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: you can be a developer02:10
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qwerty12_N900But I'm more nicer than hell ^-^02:11
corefusion-speedevil: yeah, but that would take years of work until i could get something like that done :)02:11
SpeedEvilOnly if you're really stupid.02:11
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, urrrg02:11
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, if you say so.02:12
corefusion-speedevil: haha :P are you daring me :P02:12
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SpeedEvilcorefusion-: Sure.02:14
SpeedEvilcorefusion-: Even starting from scratch, it's not years.02:15
corefusion-i try working following  the saying: The solutions is only a moment when you get tired of thinking. But somehow, it has never worked for programming :P02:16
corefusion-I know that the saying kinda denies itself but... :P02:17
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corefusion-hmm.. are there any gimp users here?02:21
jaem_n900corefusion-: yes02:21
corefusion-does it have a feature to correct lens distortions?02:22
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jaem_n900corefusion-: not sure. Google "gimp plugins" and you might find something, if it's not shipped with something for that02:25
jaem_n900I can check for you once my dinner is cooked02:25
qwerty12_N900mikkov: ping02:25
qwerty12_N900Does look OK to you?02:26
corefusion-jaem_n900: found it, listed at the gimp homepage :)02:26
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mikkovqwerty: if it uses stock button, yes02:27
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qwerty12_N900mikkov: Yes, it is the stock one. I'll post up a diff in the comments (only a couple of lines added) :)02:28
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, why are things underlined?02:28
qwerty12_N900mikkov: Why are things underlined? :p02:29
mikkovqwerty12: I don't know :)02:29
kalikianatoliqwerty12_N900, if those are proper mnemonics they'll go away with a firmware update02:30
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qwerty12_N900kalikianatoli: Awesome! I was turning them off manually with the gtksettings property for enabling mnemonics, among other things...02:32
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kalikianatoliqwerty12_N900, that property will be "fixed" :)02:32
Andrewfblackhey is there anyway I can setup my n810 to watch a room of my house?02:32
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CutMeOwnThroatAndrewfblack, "motion"? and you got lost in the wrong channel on your way to #maemo02:33
CutMeOwnThroatI got lost02:34
CutMeOwnThroatdamn me :)02:34
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* CutMeOwnThroat takes everything back and starts telling the opposite02:34
CutMeOwnThroatI don't think it's in the maemo repositories, though... at least I've not seen it02:35
kalikianatoliI saw instructions for streaming from the device, but I don't remember where02:35
kalikianatoliit's definitely doable02:35
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corefusion-hmm.. on a straight surface the distance calculation between two points on the picture is easy when the distance to the surface is know, i think...02:36
Andrewfblackwell I know I can just a video chat but don't know if it will stary open the whole day02:36
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, just ask it politely.02:36
AndrewfblackGeneralAntilles, wonder if there is anyway to make it out accept if I try to video chat with n81002:37
AndrewfblackI want to be able to keep any eye on a sick animal at home while I'm working02:37
CutMeOwnThroatoh, you want to stream? you didn't say that... motion just takes jpg still pictures whenever something moves in range of the camera and saves them02:37
Andrewfblackwll motion would work then I could ftp to tablet and get images I guess02:38
Andrewfblacknot the best way but it would work02:38
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CutMeOwnThroatproblem is that it's not in the repository and you'd need to cross-compile yourself02:39
AndrewfblackI guess I could just vnc into tablet and open photo app02:39
CutMeOwnThroatit's in debian, though, so 'only' need to adjust the package for maemo to get it packaged02:39
Andrewfblackwow just picked up n810 its huge in my hands now to much time with my n90002:40
CutMeOwnThroatanyway, I never got good pictures out of the camera in the n81002:40
Andrewfblacknot looking for good pictures just seeing if cat is moving around02:40
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corefusion-hmm..... wonder that where on earth would i find the code for the gimp corrective mode in the transform tools, trying to find out how to fix perspective distortions..02:49
corefusion-i did dl the source codes but there is so much stuff here :D02:49
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corefusion-not sure if that is truly needed02:55
corefusion-could some kind soul send me couple of sample pictures taken with the n900, i'd need a picture of a wall with something on it to help see if there is distortion in the picture02:56
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qwerty12_N900corefusion-: ...02:58
qwerty12_N900Wow, I totally missed the second part of your sentence, sorry02:59
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woglinde~lart c++ devs which dont understand to include c-headers the right way03:01
* infobot explains, ever so gently, that if c++ devs which dont understand to include c-headers the right way doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help03:01
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CutMeOwnThroatthat's larting?03:02
woglinde~lart infobot03:03
* infobot takes out woglinde with the trash03:03
CutMeOwnThroattee hee03:03
woglindeexpected behaviour03:04
CutMeOwnThroatexcept by you03:04
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corefusion-qwert12_N900: that's ok, hopefully it won't take too long anymore to get my hands on to my own n900 :)03:06
Andrewfblackfound webcamd in repo but it wont install03:06
Andrewfblackguess I don't be getting n810 to work as webcam03:07
corefusion-are there any sample codes about using the accelerometer on N900?03:09
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corefusion-where can i find it/them?03:10
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lcuk   first answer03:11
qwerty12_N900~accelerometer is
infobotqwerty12_N900: okay03:11
lcuk~accel is
infobotokay, lcuk03:12
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* lcuk waves @ qwerty12_N900 03:12
corefusion-lcuk: lol.. i should have know :)03:12
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corefusion-lcuk: thx :)03:12
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qwerty12_N900o/ lcuk03:12
lcukshould have known what core?03:13
SoltisSo I have a particular phone and I'm curious about getting Maemo to run on it; I haven't found any evidence it's supported, but I'm pretty sure Linux supports the CPU the phone uses.03:13
SoltisCurious where I should start, I guess; I'm a programmer, but I'm not experienced with embedded stuff.03:13
corefusion-lcuk: to use google03:14
lcukheh catches everyone sometimes :P03:15
lcukSoltis, is there an existing port of linux with all drivers and hardware working there?03:15
lcukand tell us the device you have03:15
Soltislcuk: Not that I'm aware of. It's the HTC S743.03:15
SoltisQualcomm MSM7225 CPU03:15
aepSoltis: unfortunately you need a lot more then CPU03:16
lcukthe cpu is actually one of the smallest components to getting featureful linux on a system03:16
jaem_n900Soltis: you might want to take a look at http://handhelds.org03:16
lcukyou need to interact with a minimum of the disks and the screen and the input devices and networking and battery and modems etc03:17
jaem_n900they were working on some HTC phones, and might be able to help you out03:17
jaem_n900no idea about that one03:17
Soltislcuk: All I need to start with is to get a basic debugging environment going; it might end up being necessary to hack together drivers, though I'd just as soon avoid that.03:17
Soltisjaem_n900: Thanks for the tip.03:17
aepjaem_n900: i think they hacked the windows mobile phone03:18
lcukthen call into #mer and ask away03:18
lcukand follow jaems advice03:18
lcukanyway, im bedding \o gnite03:19
Soltislcuk: If that's what it comes to, I guess I'll have to.03:19
woglindehm wrong side03:19
woglinderight site03:19
corefusion-time for some sleep for me too... i'll have to tinker this idea later :)03:21
woglindeno support03:21
aepoh that new one is windows mobile too. might have some luck then03:21
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woglindehtc now has far to many produced03:23
woglindeseems none of the S series get support03:25
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aepbtw, seeing that reminds me:  since the n900 now lost the d-pad, did anyone try playing games with the arrow keys?03:27
aepis that even a platform usable for games?03:27
woglindemaybe with external keys03:27
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woglindere jaem03:29
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aepproblem is i need a decent opengl es 2.0 phone for a gaming platform. i was kindof hoping on the n90003:31
jaemwoglinde, sorry?:03:31
aepjaem: re means sort of "welcome back" on some networks (not freenode). in case thats what you are confused about03:32
jaemah, okay03:32
jaemis it short for something?03:33
woglindehi again03:33
aepno idea03:33
woglindeaep sorry there isnt one03:34
woglindeif you mean gaming with cool gaming buttons03:34
woglindepandora is only gameconsole withouth phone03:34
jaemPandoraPhone? :P03:34
jaemmaybe in 20 years03:34
aepno.  what i really need is a d-pad, opengl es 2.0, and linux03:35
aepi could drop linux, but i really dont want to03:35
jaemaep, presumably a better (e.g. real) D-pad than the N810?03:35
woglindeif you dont need phone03:35
aepnah it must be a phone03:36
jaemjust tether the Pandora to an N900, then03:36
jaemyeah, not anything I can think of, then03:36
woglindeout of luck03:37
aepno. the point is demoing a specific technology.  for the purpose of the demo it must run on something that can actually make calls (for the impressive factor  (omg it runs on a phone))03:37
aepi guess i'll get the n900 anway. having a real linux to play with beats ugly keys03:37
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jaemaep, N900 with a Wiimote?03:38
aepawesome idea03:38
woglindejaem already said something about external keys03:38
aeptotally not the point of it, but flat out awesome :D03:39
aepman this thing having usb opens a whole universe of possibilities03:39
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jaemaep, no USB host03:39
aepaw. i thought it does03:39
* aep disapointed03:40
aephow else would you attach a weemote?03:40
jaemaep, Bluyetooth03:40
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aepi wonder of there are usb hosts for bt03:41
aepi mean, its running linux.  it should be able to do anything03:41
aephm yeah. i know how. there is are small arm powered devices with wireless and usb03:43
aepusb over wireless is trivial03:43
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* aep unstopable exitement03:44
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Robot101wiimotes /are/ bluetooth03:46
Robot101they work fine with the N90003:46
aepyeah that was unrelated thinking of what else i could hack with the device :D03:46
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aepthis is awesome stuff03:49
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woglinde~hail javispedro03:51
* infobot bows down to javispedro and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"03:51
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woglindegood nite03:55
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jaemthe N900 PixelPipe app is proprietary ,right?04:01
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dmj726Who makes the youtube client zoutube?05:22
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Robot101dmj726: zaheerm05:30
dmj726zaheerm: have you considered movign the playback controls to the side?05:31
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caoticcan mplayer play any dvd regardless of the dvd zone ( encryption (aparently the dvd I am tring to play has encryption or something )07:07
johnx(on linux at least, using libdvdread and libcss (sp?)07:08
caoticnot sure07:10
caoticIll check07:10
johnxerr, what I'm saying is: it will work if you're on linux07:11
johnxotherwise, I have no idea07:11
johnxthe question was only about the spelling :)07:11
caoticoh I see, wrong channel anyway :P07:11
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eplawlessI have a quick question, if someone's available to help. I've just installed the Maemo 5 final SDK, I'm having some issues getting an internet connection.07:15
eplawlessConnectivity and DNS seem to be working in scratchbox, I was able to pull down fine, but when I start the Maemo GUI nothing connects. Is this a common thing?07:16
johnxare applications failing to connect or just not trying?07:20
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eplawlessjohnx: Failing to connect. I've just installed osso-xterm, and run /sbin/ifconfig from within it; the eth0 interface is there. I tried apt-get installing python07:28
eplawless"Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org07:28
johnxalright, so try to: nslookup
johnxif that fails see if you can even ping out to
eplawlessI don't think I've got either nslookup or ping installed on the virtual device :/ I'll try to install them from scratchbox07:29
johnxreally? no ping? that's even on the physical device07:30
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eplawlessit'd normally be /bin/ping, right?07:30
johnxwhich ping07:31
eplawlessha, which isn't installed07:31
eplawlessls /bin/ping says it isn't there07:31
eplawlessI'll go try to install some tools from scratchbox07:31
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eplawlesshooray, got it working07:54
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eplawlessmy /etc/resolv.conf had my nameserver set to
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johnxah, that's correct on the device itself07:54
eplawlesshow's that? my networking is pretty terrible, but is the device running a DNS server somehow?07:55
Termanayello everyone07:56
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RST38hSome-spammer-Matthew: Are you interested in advertising at your site?08:00
RST38hMe: No. Go away Matthew.08:00
tigertyou want to copy your own resolv.conf into scratchbox08:00
RST38hMatthe: I understand. Our company bla bla bla.08:01
* tigert switches trams08:01
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johnxeplawless, on the device it self it runs a small DNS caching server08:26
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eplawlessjohnx: ahh, makes sense. I just pointed it straight to, as long as it works for now...08:27
johnxyeah, I guess it doesn't run dnsmasq inside scratchbox08:27
johnxwhich makes sense now that I think about it08:27
johnxI just figured it would have been handled by the scratchbox setup process08:28
eplawlessIt would have been nice :/ I've finally got something reasonable working for development now, I think.08:28
eplawlessa one-click installer or a deb package for all of this would have been nice :\08:29
johnxthere's a vmdk08:29
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eplawlesswell, crap.08:30
eplawlessI suppose I should have looked around more before creating my own VM :P08:30
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johnxit would also be nice if it got official Nokia backing and was linked off of the dev section of the wiki more prominently08:32
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thuxhad to stop using exellent vagalume, cause lastfm asked money from us .fi08:59
johnxand pandora (which is even better) doesn't allow apps at all :/09:00
thuxhow iphone has spotify but maemo doesn't?09:01
johnx(pandora the inet radio site, not pandora the game machine)09:01
Termanajohnx - doesn't pandora have an iphone app?09:02
johnxTermana, yup. from the pandora guys themselves, IIRC09:02
johnxso I should say they don't allow 3rd party apps09:02
Termanamaemo's slogen could be - theres no app for that09:02
johnxhere's why there is no spotify for maemo:
adeusport despotify to maemo09:03
johnxdespotify is blocked for free accounts. not a dealbreaker for some of course09:04
thuxis spotify stream encrypted?09:05
johnxwhen spotify blocked despotify for free accounts, the despotify guys decided not to circumvent it...sooo, not sure what that means exactly09:06
johnxbut that implies that the options is open to someone else to hack around it09:06
johnxmorning Stskeeps09:06
adeushmm there already is maemify in despot trunk :)09:07
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pupniki am trying to figure out why image viewer on n900 dont update my pics list correctÃly after sending a pic via bt09:41
pupniki see a 1/2 loaded thumbnail of the pic.  cant click on any pic09:41
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zchydem_workpupnik: tracker problem? But does it fail every time when you transfer a pic via bt?09:44
pupniki try again09:44
zchydem_workI have moved several pics via bluetooth from N900 to N900 it haven't failed ever09:45
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pupnikhmm n900 batt doen to 0 again09:50
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pupnikwill test some more - maybe i can file a decent bug09:50
tigertpupnik: got some 3rd party apps installed that drain it?09:50
tigertor just cannot keep your hands off the browser and other fun stuff? :)09:50
pupnikno, fresh image.  batt is prob shot after 1 month at 0%09:51
johnxpupnik, logged into any IM services?09:52
pupniki think we will see some complaints about unchargeable devices09:53
TomaszDpupnik bug report?09:53
TomaszDmaybe the thumbnailer is too greedy and grabs the image while it's still being transferred09:53
pupnikthat is likeÃly09:53
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pupniki should have gotten an external universal battery charger years ago.09:59
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cosmoanyone familiar with autobuilder? how do i upload a library and a application which depends on it?10:02
kirmapupnik: this seems to work with e90, and anyway, is cheap and everything: :I10:02
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kirmajust have to advertise since I'm so pleased with it considering ~10 euro price...10:03
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cosmoapplication building fails because library is not found10:03
pupnikthat is cheap kirma, nice10:04
pupnikcosmo - diablo application builder?10:04
tigertkirma: nice price indeed10:04
cosmopupnik: fremantle10:04
cosmothe library was already built successfully10:05
pupniknokia's own BL-5J seem reasonably priced10:05
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kirmaI've never quite understood all the hassle with battery switching, especially when that resets the device10:07
tigertpupnik: if the battery is totally dead, keep it in charger for a while, usually it'll start working again10:07
tigertat least on my N810 which was sitting empty for months10:07
pupnikcool ty10:07
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tigertthough a new battery might be good if the current one is old10:08
kirmaof course if the battery is just reached end of lifetime... then it's ok :)10:08
tigertthey dont last forever I guess :)10:08
johnxcosmo, did the lib make it to the repo yet? if not: wait. if so, make sure you're depending on it in the app package.10:08
kirmagf said that just on optimal storage conditions, these modern phone batteries lose considerable amount of capacity per year10:09
cosmojohnx: depends on how long it takes. it got thru autobuilder successfully10:09
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cosmokirma: optimal storage conditions = fridge10:09
eplawlessAnyone ever get Fennec to build for the x86 Scratchbox target?10:09
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cosmolipo loses capacity faster when in hot10:10
kirmawell, let's say that optimal outside fridge ;)10:10
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cosmojohnx: so if i update both lib and app, i have to upload lib, wait, and then upload app?10:11
cosmowhat happens if the old vesion of app doesn't work with the new lib?10:11
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tigertnew version of app replaces old version of app?10:14
cosmoit should10:14
tigertnew version of lib is only required by new version of app10:14
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cosmodoes the repo contain older versions of packages also?10:16
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zaheermdmj726, i want to make them float on10:28
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woglindehi zaheerm10:29
zaheermwoglinde, hi10:29
zaheermdmj726, on top of the video when someone taps10:29
zaheermand have video full screen10:29
zaheermdid you try the latest zoutube, i have made it support portrait mode and use an iconview with thumbnails10:30
dmj726no I probably didn't10:30
dmj726when was this?10:31
zaheermlast night10:31
dmj726I've been busy bastardizing zoutube10:31
zaheermapt-get install zoutube should upgrade it10:31
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dmj726By that I mean adding menuish things10:32
dmj726more for pitivi's sake than anything10:32
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dmj726also, I've decided that python is very nice10:33
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pupnikzoutube != mytube? dmj72610:36
pupnikor zaheerm10:36
dmj726this is zoutube10:36
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woglindehm whats zoutube?10:37
woglindebrowersgui for gnash?10:37
dmj726youtube player10:37
pupnikpics?  url?10:38
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mgedminpython rules10:40
woglindehm seems not on garage10:40
woglindemgedmin yes10:40
woglindespeed is sometimes the problem10:40
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eplawlessAnyone ever get Fennec to build for the x86 Scratchbox target?10:41
mgedminand memory usage, I suppose10:41
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mgedminwatching anime again, Myrtti?10:46
Myrttino, having a flu, again.10:47
Myrttihad whopping three healthy days in between10:48
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dmj726zaheerm: I'm working on making a (not really) functional mockup of an editor gui10:56
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* RST38h moos at aSIMULAter11:04
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RST38hheya woglinde11:06
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dmj726oh was rejected from the android marketplace on the grounds that it was written in python!11:15
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RST38hPython? What is python? Is it some animal?11:18
woglindehm autobuilder sutcked again11:18
woglindeits java11:18
cosmois there a way to know when package moves from autobuilder to repository?11:19
RST38hcosmo: Right side of
woglindeif ah yes I meant the transfer11:20
woglindeseems jeremiah has to dig deeper11:21
cosmoRST38h: when it is removed from "latest builds" it will be in repo?11:21
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woglindecosmo normaly11:21
woglindebut the process is stucked11:21
woglindeas discussed on maemo-dev mialinglist11:21
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cosmomaybe i should join11:22
woglindeno worry its not only you who complains11:22
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viqIt really is a shame n900 does not have a compass...11:30
woglindeviq you could case mod it11:31
zackyglue one at the back side of it11:32
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zaheermmake a bluetooth digital compass and stick it on with glue :)11:33
zaheermpupnik, don't have up to date screenshots, but try out with apt-get install zoutube11:34
pupnikdiablo? extras-devel? zaheerm11:35
pupniknot found11:35
zaheermpupnik, fremantle11:35
dmj726I think n900 would have made a great punchline in today's xkcd11:36
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gourmorning. have few questions about maemo development...11:42
gourconsidering nokia now owns qt, i wondre what's the future of gtk+ as gui toolkit for maemo?11:42
viqwoglinde: probably, if I had any soldering skills ;)11:43
Stskeepsgour: community supported in m611:43
gour and further? will be supported in m7 as well?11:44
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wazdhello all11:44
Stskeepsi have no idea what m7 is.11:44
woglindehi wazd11:44
woglindehi stskeep11:44
corefusion-kurtan: hahaha, hackers talking leet so no one knows what they are talking about :D:D11:44
kurtancorefusion-: can we get a screenshot ?11:44
kurtanGOT IT!11:44
woglindeviq doubleside tape shoul be okay11:44
gouri mean, is it investing (aka learning) in gtk+ safe for maemo platform?11:45
RST38hGentlemen, Mark Guim reports he has just updated to 42.11 firmware11:45
viqwoglinde: it would be an nice idea to have the system be able to read it ;)11:45
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mgedminRST38h, url?11:52
woglindehm uh youtube will make HQ videos in 1080p11:55
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woglindejo lardman11:55
lardmanhi woglinde11:55
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gourif there are gtk+ bindings available for some language, i'm curious how much work is to provide for hildon's API?12:04
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lardmanwhat lang?12:04
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pupnikzaheerm: what format does youtube have that n800 can play?12:07
pupnikfmt=6 yields half-speed video, fmt=14 sound dropouts12:07
gourwoglinde: jhc is supposed to provide very fast C code12:07
zaheermnot sure12:08
woglindezaheerm are you using gnash?12:08
gouras you like ;)12:08
woglindehm intressting12:09
woglindeso its ffmpeg in the end12:09
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RST38hmgedmin: (and yes he hates poor N900 :))\12:13
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cehtehwell lack of compass is really a bummer12:15
tigertcehteh: why?12:15
* RST38h does not need compass12:15
lardmanjust cos it would be cool :)12:15
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cehtehfor a lot navigation things12:15
RST38h(qand before you mention MMS, I have not sent or received any in my life)12:15
cehtehas he pointed out when you stop at a traffic light and there is even so slight drift in the GPS signal then the screen rotates12:16
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cehtehor when hiking and you want a fix and direction in middle of nowhere12:16
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* gour is using garming for gps...could live even without gps stuff on n90012:17
RST38hcenteh: This has nothing to do with the compass12:18
cehtehwell i want the n900 as replacement to my aging gps12:18
cehtehRST38h: of course it has12:18
RST38hHas everything to do with screwed up maps application though12:18
kynkyovi maps 1.0 is a dissapointment12:18
cehtehmy current gps has no compas either12:18
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cehtehif you halt it losses direction12:19
pupnikvery good point about the screen rotating from noise when stopped cehteh12:19
cehtehyou always have to move a few meters to get direction12:19
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RST38hGPS data has no direction, so mamking it look like you have got directional data is wrong12:19
* gour would like to develop in haskell for maemo12:19
kynkygour, me2, and i think itsvery possible12:20
cehtehRST38h: thats whats the compass would be for .. augmenting gps data with direction12:20
pupnikgour natani?12:20
lardmanwhat do the gtk bindings look like?12:20
cehtehhey i can life without a barometer, but compass should be really there12:20
gourkynky: how?12:20
gourpupnik: ?12:20
SpeedEvilcehteh: compass would boost the cost of the device $5 or so. $10 or so on the price12:20
tigertI guess you could do quite good by cross checking gps data drifts with accelerometer12:20
tigertto filter out the erroneous drifting12:21
cehtehSpeedEvil: if that would be an option i would pay it12:21
lardmanthat much money?!12:21
tigertno need for compass to fix that issue12:21
cehtehbut i think a compass is much cheaper12:21
Myrttiyou're bikeshedding12:21
gourlardman: they're pretty good...problem is there is no ghc port to arm and, otoh, gtk2hs does not compile with jhc (which does cross-compiling) yet12:21
cehtehtigert: you need 2 accelerometers to detect rotations12:21
SpeedEvillardman: yes - accellerometer is ~$1 in bulk12:22
SpeedEvilcehteh: no, you don't.12:22
lardmangour: i meant how complex are the binding themselves, the implementation12:22
SpeedEvilcehteh: you need two _really_good_ accellerometers to detect rotations12:22
tigertrotation is not the point12:22
cehtehand usually they need to be of better/more accurate class than the cheap 'orientation sensors' usually used12:22
kynkyghc 6.10 armel debian package exists, i was hoping to optify that and its dependencies, got no idea about gtk2hs, or the qt equivalent, but worst cae is that I have to rogram using X protocol, and that can be done in pure haskell, as X protocol is just a network protocol12:22
tigertits the erroneous rotation caused by erroneous "move" which didnt happen12:22
cehtehSpeedEvil: yes that too12:22
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gourlardman: they're quite good and robust12:22
SpeedEvilcehteh: and really good in this case is $5000/3 axis.12:22
lardmanSpeedEvil: $1 in bulk for accel, and $10 for compass?12:22
tigertsure it would be nice to rotate the map to where your nose is always12:22
SpeedEvilcehteh: and even then with a 10cm baseline, they're not that good.12:22
SpeedEvillardman: $512:23
tigertbut that is different from fixing the erroneous rotations caused by drifting12:23
SpeedEvillardman: for compass12:23
SpeedEvilGryo is easier12:23
cehtehso accelerometers are out for that12:23
SpeedEvilbut that's even more expensive than magnetometer12:23
lardmanbut cheap next to the device cost12:23
kynkygour, wha do you think ?12:23
Iridiancehteh: are you the cehteh I know? If you are, small world :)12:24
cehtehwhy do i meet anyone i know in this channel? :)12:24
woglindeirc-world is small yes12:24
SpeedEvillardman: Sure. But there is always something else shiny that you might add for another $5/1cc12:24
gourlardman: check people are writing commercial code with gtk2hs12:24
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wjtI'd be interested in ghc6 running in scratchbox12:25
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wjthaving GHC-the-compiler on your device doesn't seem that useful12:25
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cehtehSpeedEvil: well yes but if this is a decision between buy/not buy for a lot others12:26
gourkynky: having jhc with gtk2hs would be great...i'm just wondering about binding hildon, not having any idea how extensive they are considering that most of gtk+ is done12:26
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SpeedEvilcehteh: True of course.12:26
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SpeedEvilcehteh: but thats the case for everything12:26
cehtehi dont know how many people would demand a compass, but i am seriously thniking about canceling my order12:27
SpeedEvilcehteh: phone - +$40 - +$100 on the price, ...12:27
gourand i'd like to stay with gtk+ (if possible), preferring it over qt12:27
cehtehi want it as gps replacement .. first the notice that it only works well as a-gps but its bad with offline navigating12:28
cehtehthen no compass12:28
cehtehmaybe the device is not for me then12:28
SpeedEvilI personally am an OSM person. So as long as the GPS works OK12:28
SpeedEvilAnd the camera12:28
SpeedEvilWhy do you want the compass again?12:29
lardmanVR stuff?12:29
cehtehi dont want to map for osm, but i want to navigate in rual areas, when biking, hiking and when stopping too12:29
kynkygour, yeah gtk2hs is pretty good, but at leastthere a few toolkits, wx is pretty good and the new qt widget set is coming along nicely, but ben looking into xhb, x haskell bindings12:29
gourkynky: i've asked on haskell-cafe, here is the reply i got -
SpeedEvilyeah - there are many use-cases - some of which are fantasy.12:29
cehtehVR/AR would be nice too12:29
SpeedEvilAs in there is no real software out there that does it12:29
adeusis there ar support in the n900?12:30
gourkynky: afaik, only gtk2hs does memory-management in the haskell-way12:30
SpeedEviladeus: Well - it can be used for AR12:30
cehtehyes but this software wont appear when the hardware is incapable of it12:30
cehtehare electronic compasses 2D or 3D?12:30
Macerbones is trying to find the murderer of a midget wrestler12:30
SpeedEviladeus: but - it has no information about pointing - hence it may be limited in some use-cases12:30
SpeedEvilcehteh: usually 3d12:30
cehtehfor AR you need 3d12:30
adeusi.e. can you superpose stuff on the video12:30
SpeedEvilcehteh: 2d if you know the app is going to be horizontal12:31
SpeedEvilYou need a compass and an accellerometer in order to get a (usually) unambiguous orientation.12:31
cehtehso a compass could replace the acclerometer12:31
SpeedEvilcehteh: no12:31
SpeedEvilcehteh: you need both12:31
RST38hanyway, I do not see why obsess oneself with compass so much12:31
RST38hthere will always be SOME piece of hardware Nokia has not included with its device12:32
SpeedEvilcehteh: you can only get orientation if you know the relative orientation of two vectors - magnetic field - and gravity12:32
cehtehbecause i want direction wehn standing still12:32
RST38hBe thankful that it is the compass and not the display12:32
SpeedEvil(and if you also know the approximate location)12:32
kalikianacehteh, the accellerometer only knows the turning but no relation to the ground. while the compass knows the relation to the poles and nothing else12:32
lardmanRST38h: because android phones do have it, and there have been some interesting location aware demos shown using a compass + gps12:32
kynkygour, have you got an n900 yet ?12:32
SpeedEvilAnd if the two vectors are not closely coupled - >80/<-80 longitude12:33
RST38hlardman: Then why not get an Android phone?12:33
kalikianaandroid's platform isn't fun :-]12:33
cehtehkalikiana: well if you have the vectors for the magnetic field lines and the gps position then you can calculate the directon towards the center of the earther12:33
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gourkynky: no. i'm still considering whether it could replace the need for netbook machine. if not, then i'll continue with a cheap phone and netbook running moblin :-)12:34
cehtehbut all 3 togther (or maybe even add an baromenter) can augment each other, help self calibrating and supress errors on another channel12:34
pupnikmy N810 automatically seeks the center of the earth12:34
kalikianacehteh, hm.. might work. sounds like your battery wouldn't like it, though. gps takes long to do anything12:35
Macerbumblebee man!!!12:35
SpeedEvilkalikiana: that is not the case in principle12:35
SpeedEvilkalikiana: Coupling the GPS with accellerometer and gyro and compass can in principle if you do it right vastly decrease GPS power use, as you can shut the GPS down for periods.12:36
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cehtehwell n900 trades that for wifi connection for agps which draws power, cost money and is not univerally available12:37
kynkygour, intel are doing moblin smartphones soon with new version of atom proccessor, but im not convinced about battery life, at mo you can get a benq s6 smart phone and that has a x86 processor in it. but i think it should be possible not to only run haskell code on n900, but develop on it as well :)12:37
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SpeedEvilcehteh: AGPS is not required for GPS12:37
kirmaaren't those more like big tablets with universal connectivity than phones?12:38
cehtehSpeedEvil: some people here told me that the n900 needs 6+minutes to get a fix when not using agps12:38
SpeedEvilcehteh: It's not that simple - there are a number of techniques you can use for shutting down GPS but maintaining the local accurate clock, and sampling rapidly.12:38
* SpeedEvil is currently designing a soft-GPS - it's fun!12:38
RST38hAFAIK AGPS only needs brief initial connection to get initial data12:38
SpeedEvilThere are _many_ sorts of AGPS12:39
RST38hSo it is not "wasting" much power this way12:39
cehtehbut it still needs that12:39
kalikianaI want emerillon to work without network :-)12:39
SpeedEvilSome ship the data back to a central host, and have it do all the numbercrunching.12:39
kynkykirma, you mean the intel stuff that isnt out yet ? intel working on very low power atom chips,they intend for phones and mids and umpc12:39
RST38hcenteh: In any case, I do not see why you wouldn't simply buy Droid or something12:39
SpeedEvilSome even generate a position later on the desktop.12:39
RST38hOr iPhone 3GS, it has got compass12:39
cehtehRST38h: because i want a open platform12:39
RST38hcenteh: Then suffer the lack of compass quietly =)12:40
kynkyopen platform is most important12:40
kirmakynky: even "very low power" is likely to be rather power hungry when compared with the scale arm chips are at home12:40
SpeedEvil'Geotate' - samples the GPS signal for 1s, stores it, and then you later recover the position on the desktop12:40
* RST38h does not find open platform all that important12:40
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cehtehyeah but i do12:40
* SpeedEvil locks RST38h up in a cage with a tiger.12:40
kynkyor learn how to run maemo or meh on hd2 or droid or x3 ? with their compasses12:40
lbtRST38h is thinking tactically12:40
* RST38h skins the tiger, sells the fur, makes profit12:41
SpeedEvilkynky: and it'd be mer, not maemo12:41
kynkykirma, yeah im betting it still power hungry compared to arm too12:41
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cehtehthe gps code/firmware of the n900 isnt free or?12:41
RST38hit is not12:41
pupnikmer on iphone would be a treat to see12:41
lbttigers are endagered and RST38h kills one... <sigh>  short-termism....12:41
kynkySpeedEvil, thx for correcting me :)12:41
pupnikhe cant very well mate with it. lbt12:42
RST38hlbt: In the long term, tigers die of natural causes anyway12:42
SpeedEvilRST38h: The n900 has a soft-GPS then?12:42
* SpeedEvil wonders about hacking.12:42
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RST38hSpeed: AFAIK not, the TI chip has got two serial ports, one for control another for outputting data12:42
RST38hSpeed: How that data is being processed is a different story though12:43
SpeedEvilRST38h: yes - I've done some work on the openmoko GPS12:43
SpeedEvilRST38h: I (and a couple of others) got to the point where we could get a position to within 2000km within 45 minutes.12:43
cehtehwell you can certainly feed some correction/augmenting data over the control port in12:43
kirmaif I remember right, on N900 service manual it seemed that GPS chip is connected to RAPU/YAMA, not OMAP312:43
* RST38h seems to remember that at least on N810, the TI 5300 data is connected to uart012:43
gourkynky: i'd be satisfied to develop on my desktop and being able to just run on n90012:43
kirmaso, interfacing directly might be a challenge anyway12:43
SpeedEvil(we hadn't decoded the data, just the dopplers of the satellites)12:44
SpeedEvil(and just the coarse doppler - before it became clear that the GPS chip was changing in the next version, so the project stalled)12:44
RST38hSpeed: You would need a *really* large payload to hit with, at this precision12:44
RST38hSpeed: A deathstar-class weapon would do though12:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: there are other reasons to want a free GPS :)12:46
cehtehRST38h: well just some callibration profiles for the gps might be useful12:46
SpeedEvilRST38h: for example, the aforementioned powersaving12:46
kynkygour, if or when you do get haskell working on n900, would love to know12:46
cehtehhiking, bike, car ... which use different algorithms/parameters to compensate errors12:46
SpeedEvilRST38h: The GPS code is almost certainly provided as a binary blob from TI, with no source given to nokia.12:46
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Stskeepson n900? no12:46
Stskeepsit's NMEA12:46
SpeedEvilStskeeps: ah. /me looks at RST38h.12:46
woglindeSpeedEvil *g* sure12:47
gourkynky: heh, i'd not buy n900 without being assured i can do it12:47
* SpeedEvil gets out the porcupine and the butter.12:47
pupnikty for the help Stskeeps - back in business here12:47
RST38hSpeed: I am not sure about no source given to Nokia :)12:47
kynkygour, i do know there is active work on ghc being supported on iphone12:47
woglindecouldnt be that some linux hackers get the same precision the military has12:47
gourkynky: no interest for iphone...i prefer open platform12:48
cehtehwoglinde: impossible because this uses another frequency ..12:48
cehtehyou need different recievers and different antennas for that12:48
RST38hSpeed: I never said it was not NMEA =)12:48
kynkygour, well i have ordered my n900 for half price, i intend to get it working with haskell12:48
woglindecehteh ah okay12:48
gourkynky: cool. share your experience12:49
kynkygour, only reason i mentioned iphone was that it runs on arm, very similar chipset to n90012:49
suihkulokkikynky, gour, you will be able to use ghc6 at least in a debian/ubuntu chroot12:49
lardmankalikiana: re emerillon, does it not already?12:49
cehtehand different 'encryption' keys .. ok one cant really tell that gps uses encryption12:49
cehtehbut iirc they are still secret12:49
lardmanSpeedEvil: well the n900 gps won't realistically get a fix w/o network assistance12:49
pupnikwhat is this euro sat system - gallileo?12:49
kynkysuihkulokki, yeah -->
woglindeintressting pam bails out12:49
cehtehlardman: that really pisses me12:49
SpeedEvilRST38h: There is no process running when GPS is running that uses ~5% of CPU?12:49
* RST38h wonders if it is possible to create a tmo filter that hides comments from anyone with <3-months-old account12:50
kalikianalardman, it frantically asked for wireless last time I tried, even if I tapped outside the window12:50
lardmancehteh: yeah, is annoying12:50
StskeepsRST38h: i pondered the same12:50
RST38hSts: That would be perfect, albeit highly segregatory12:50
lardmankalikiana: might just be the gps12:50
cehtehlardman: but that should be fixable in software12:50
SpeedEvilCan anyone check that - if the GPS is enabled - is there a driver that takes ~5% of CPU?12:50
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kalikianalardman, you mean gps asks for wireless on its own?12:51
RST38hSpeed: A moment12:51
suihkulokkiRST38h: filter anyone who comments on a "why is X delayed?" or "When do i get my pony" threads12:51
cehtehit basically only means to store the almanac state and replay it to the gps when later restartet12:51
lardmankalikiana: yes12:51
cehtehkalikiana: that A-GPS12:51
lardmankalikiana: iirc I asked liblocation to provide the best possible fix, so it will use agps12:51
RST38hsuihkulokki: Your conditions are too fuzzy for the dead silicon to decide upon12:51
RST38hsuihkulokki: But the 3-month filter should do nicely12:51
cehtehlardman: you have a n900?12:52
lardmankalikiana: I've also been told that I don;t switch liblocation off, but I added the code, and as I publish my location info, the gps tends to stay on anyway12:52
kalikianalardman, I would prefer it to not enforce me to establish a connection, after that we can talk how to proceed12:52
lardmancehteh: yes12:52
lardmankalikiana: well I could add a dialog asking if you want to use the gps12:52
lardmankalikiana: what happens if you disallow automatic connections?12:53
RST38hSpeed: I do not see any such process12:53
cehtehhow long does it take to get a fix without A-GPS?12:53
lardmancehteh: forever12:53
lardmanallegedly 5min optimum12:53
SpeedEvilRST38h: :/12:53
SpeedEvilRST38h: thanks.12:53
lardmanbut with assist is pretty accurate12:53
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RST38hsuihkulokki: Has there been fw update to 42-11 quietly going, or what?12:54
cehtehi dont care about accurateness if i cant get a fix without connection12:54
kalikianalardman, can't you check whether connection was cancelled and then stop trying?12:54
RST38hsuihkulokki: I see at least one blogger reporting he has flashed 42-1112:54
tarili need som help, ive installed sdk, the last step is missing, nokia.binaries12:54
lardmancehteh: you'll have data won't you12:54
cehtehi need gps most when i am somewhere where no wifi is available ..12:54
kalikianathat's what the browser for example does12:54
cehtehno i dont have12:54
tarilive logged into scratchbox12:54
tariladded nokia binaries repsoitory, bt when i execute apt-get update, nothing happens, i recive this:12:55
lardmancehteh: yeah this is a major question, which also affects those roaming, I'd like to try to extract more info from Nokia about us supplying our own assistance data if poss12:55
kalikianalardman, ha, I tried again and found a loophole: tapping the task switcher after cancelling :P12:55
cehtehthats really important12:55
kalikianait stopped asking12:55
lbtsuihkulokki: FYI I rebuilt gettext in a clean chroot and in Fremantle SDK/sbox... guess which one works flawlessly12:55
tarilFailed to fetch--12:55
cehtehi need GPS mostly when i am on vacation and data roaming is expensive12:55
cehtehand not even available everywhere12:55
cehtehhey i want a gps to be able to cross the sahara12:56
adeusroaming is ridiculously expensive12:56
lardmancehteh: well the battery life won't manage that12:56
adeusjust on London it was ¤3/M12:57
cehtehi can take an extra battery12:57
derflardman: I was about to walk about 48 miles on one charge.12:57
cehtehbut i can not take an personal cell tower with me12:57
derfWith GPS on.12:57
cehtehso gps which needs data connection is really really bad12:57
cehtehwell reichelt has a cheap bluetooth gps dongle12:58
cehtehmaybe i buy one12:58
cehtehbut sux that n900 cant do it alone12:58
derfWell, neither could the N8x0.12:58
ccookeMorning, all12:58
lardmanmorning ccooke12:58
cehtehyes i know people who use an extra bluetooth dongle for gps with the n80012:59
derf90% of users probably do just fine with AGPS, which is 90% more than before.12:59
cehtehof course same again, bluetooth dongles have no compass .. makes no sense there12:59
kalikianalardman, and I remember one thing I wondered: could emerillon preload data?12:59
kalikianasay, for a certain city or area12:59
lardmankalikiana: best ask that in #champlain13:00
lardmankalikiana: I hope it either can, or will be able to13:00
kalikianaah, will do13:00
* timeless sighs13:00
* timeless kicks something13:00
lardmanbut I've not done much testing so far, just trying to get contact location plugin working13:00
lardmanwhich means a net connection is always up13:01
lbtso N900 can't do GPS w/o data ?13:01
lardmanallegedly it can, but before I got a sim I could never get a connection13:01
pupniki got connection without a sim13:01
timelesslbt: it can, but a lot of the checkboxes aren't designed in a way to let you do what you want13:01
pupniknot on first day though13:01
lbtA-GPS is tied to the nw reverse geo-location13:01
pupniktruly black arts this gps stuff13:02
lbtyes, so I might want a-gps but not reverse geo13:02
t_s_opupnik: what do you expect from something thats originally military?13:02
woglindehi timeless13:02
lardmanno, agps isn't anything to do with the geolocation13:02
timelessyou might probably be mostly out of luck ;-)13:02
lardmanthough it might use the same server13:02
ccookeBasically, it's designed to work with the most commonly useful scenario...13:02
lbtlardman: that is what I thought13:03
timelesswoglinde: i saw one decent advertising campaign13:03
lbtbut the config says otherwise13:03
timelessdid you know anything about it?13:03
ccookea-gps is a kludge unless you have some sort of automatic bootstrap of location - such as the gsm network location13:03
derfI don't know. I tend to agree with cehteh. I want GPS when I'm out of town, usually in another country.13:03
woglindetimeless for what?13:03
timelessthe n90013:03
lardmanlbt: but the agps data helps the gps get a fix, the geolocation does the lat/lon <-> name stuff, so different things13:03
ccooke(the solution on the n810 was not something you could really hand a consumer, for instance)13:03
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lbt100% agree lardman13:03
lbtbut have you seen the tickbox?13:03
lbtthey are bundled13:04
derfAs to whether that's "common"...13:04
lardmanlbt: no, where is that?13:04
lbtderf, also probably explains my planet.maemo rant13:04
lbtget GPS kinda running13:04
lbtclick status13:05
lbtclick "Position"13:05
lbtCellular (A-GPS) positioning13:05
lbt"Use the A-GPS and Reverse-Geocaching"13:05
* timeless upgrades MSOffice.mac13:05
lardmanlbt: probably just that both use the Nokia supl server I'd say13:06
lbtcould be13:06
Macerbooth still hasn't tapped bones13:07
timelessmacer: is that want-to-f?13:07
timelessinstead of what-the-f? :)13:07
lardmanlbt: what sw version do you have, I don't see those strings?13:07
Maceri'd tap bones . she is hot13:07
Macermerlin is pretty good13:07
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Macera lot better than i thought it would be13:08
lbtAh, timeless' UK strings...13:08
lbtbut this is a summit loaner13:08
SpeedEvilccooke: All integrated chips I have seen can get a fix without the assistance, it simply takes longer.13:08
timelesslardman: install my strings13:08
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lardmanlbt: did you upgrade to 41-*?13:08
lbtdo you have "location" in the status bar13:08
lbtheh - not yet13:08
SpeedEvilccooke: It could be that the wrong assistance data is being passed - or the GPS is not being asked for the position until the assistance data is gotten13:09
timelesslbt: wait, does it say geocaching or geocording?13:09
lbtmaybe in Helsinki next week...13:09
suihkulokkiRST38h: I have no insight on when any given fw update is considered stable enough for distributing to the sheep13:09
lardmanlbt: had it, but it's just vanished13:09
ccookeSpeedEvil: that's true. The problem is that if you've designed them to use agps and have no network access, it'll take *longer* to get a fix than it might otherwise in most implementations13:09
timelesslbt: oh good :)13:09
ccookeSpeedEvil: effectively, without apgs they fall back on a complete bootstrap13:09
lbtI've found a use for ovi-maps!!!13:09
lardmanlbt: I just have "Network positioning" Engale13:09
lbtit brings up the GPS for debugging13:10
timelesslbt: we have a much smaller app for that13:10
lbtlardman: use timeless' strings13:10
auenfovi-maps is useful for wasting battery?13:10
timelesswhich gives prettier pictures13:10
SpeedEvilccooke: yes, though generally if you don't do it weongly, you can store assistance data which will help with bootstrapping.13:10
ccookelbt: you can do that without ovi maps :-)13:10
lardmanlbt: curiously I just tried ovi maps and it opened the GPS for 10s then closed it down13:10
lardmanlbt: will do13:10
lbtccooke: I figure it has to have *some* use13:10
ccookeSpeedEvil: yes, but most agps implementations don't do that :-)13:10
ccookelbt: nope, utter failure.13:11
lardmanah ok, I can't log onto my network13:11
lbtI'm not logged in either13:11
lardmanso Ovi maps just gave up and shut down the GPS rather than trying to fallback to normal non-assisted fixes13:11
lbtie no wifi/gprs13:11
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lbtwell, I'm indoors13:11
lbtit may not have any GPS signal13:11
lardmanyeah, perhaps13:12
* timeless hopes this does the right thing13:13
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timelessif not, i just deleted all of my applications :)13:13
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* timeless really should delete some snapshots13:14
timelessone of my snapshots costs ~1gb :)13:14
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timelessooh, Entourage for mac Web Services Edition13:15
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* timeless wonders wtf that means13:15
timelesshrm, it seems to mean "we lost all of your settings"13:15
auenfentourage is mac equiv of outlook?13:16
timelessthey aren't particularly related13:16
cehtehanother question to one of the ones who has an device here: does the filesystem it uses have posix extended attributes?13:18
t_s_ohmm, bluetooth freezes after long connection? anyone else seen that?13:18
timelesscehteh: um13:18
cehtehubifs or how was it called?13:19
timelessthe vfat fs doesn't13:19
timelessthe ext3 volume is well... hopefully... ext313:19
cehtehno not the vfat .. thats clear13:19
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timelessthe other is ubifs, but you shouldn't be sticking lots of junk in it anyway13:19
cehtehbut the system partition is on some strange flash filesystem iirx13:19
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timelessbut if you stick lots of junk there, you'll run out of space13:19
* lardman curses very odd Windows XP behaviour re serial ports13:20
cehtehi am thinking about ecryptfs and encrypting some data there13:20
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timelessthat would go in ext313:20
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cehtehdoes it store user account settings, keys and so on on the ubifs?13:21
timeless/home/user is ext313:21
cehteh /etc/passwd .. /etc/ssh ?13:21
timelesswell, gconf is in the wrong place, but ignoring that13:21
timelessyou're planning on doing random stuff to /etc/passwd?13:22
cehtehlogins for email and whatever?13:22
timelesssounds like a terrible idea.13:22
timelessgconf is the only botch13:22
timelessand i haven't spent enough time figuring that part out13:22
timelessfor that you want a backup, which ideally should do the right thing13:22
cehtehnot sure yet i have to see how its actually set up13:22
cehtehmaybe i just do device encryption13:23
timelessif you're going to muck w/ /etc, i suggest you use .debs for each change13:23
timelessthe application manager can remember the things you'e installed13:23
timelessand when you reflash (if you ever do so..), it can try to get those packages back13:23
cehtehswap needs encryption too then :P13:23
timelesswhich will restore all of your customization13:23
timelessoh brother13:24
cehtehcan you flash more than one kernel?13:24
timelesshow about getting a nice palmV or something13:24
timelessbut remove the battery cover13:24
SpeedEvilkirma: N900 service manual - who gets this?13:24
timelessand tape something to the battery, so when someone takes your palm5 the battery doesn't go with them and the device forgets everything nearly immediately13:25
timelessmuch safer13:25
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* tigert had a Handspring Visor palm clone back then13:26
tigertthings have progressed slightly :D13:26
* timeless sighs13:26
tigertand finally, FINALLY people are getting away from the "PDA" fixation when talking about touchscreen devices :)13:27
timelesstigert: so...13:27
timelessi just found my flight information for my flight to the states13:27
* tigert likes touchscreen with thumbs and panning13:27
timelessit was in my junk e-mail folder13:27
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tigerttimeless: nokia mail?13:27
timelesscorporate booking13:27
tigertthe junk folder has caught *one* real spam during my years here13:27
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tigerteverything else has been FAIL :)13:28
timelessdepends on your definition of junk i suppose13:28
tigertexchange spam filtering sucks13:28
timelessi like it when internal appointments go there13:28
lbtspamassasin rulez13:28
tigertwas thinking of the same :)13:28
tigertpowerpoints -> spam! :)13:28
timelesstigert: also NSUs and internal release announcements13:28
timelessso... overall, it's being mostly helpful :)13:29
timelessbesides the travel agency sends me SMSs ~4hrs before my flights13:29
timelesswhich is good, unless i'm asleep..13:29
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gouranyone can tell me something about maemo vs. moblin?13:32
Stskeepsmoblin1 or moblin2?13:33
timelessgour: maemo is Nokia sponsored13:33
timelessmobiln is sponsored by some list of forgetable companies13:33
* timeless forgot13:33
timelesshas moblin1 or moblin2 made any press recently?13:33
timeless(disclosure: I work for Nokia)13:33
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timeless(that doesn't mean that i remember everything my employer does either)13:34
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gourtimeless: maemo will focus on qt over gtk+?13:34 has pages explaining its future13:34
timelessi'm sure they're more coherent than me atm13:35
* timeless sniffles13:35
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timelessthe first picture i see on that page couldn't possibly work on a touchscreen as small as the n900's13:35
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timelessbased on their description, moblin seems targetted and netbooks with atom processors13:36
timelessnetbooks traditionally are much larger than phones13:36
Stskeepswith GL capability13:36
timeless(the n900 is oddly enough a phone)13:36
timeless(and a good one at that..)13:36
timeless(and ask around, i rarely if ever have anything good to say about anything)13:37
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timelessoh, and whomever wrote that blog needs an editor13:37
gourwhich distro you use?13:37
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timeless> adds full support for features such as plug-in support13:37
ukkiX-Fade still on vacation?13:37
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timelessOS X, w7, Indiana,13:38
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Stskeepstimeless: who needs to get beaten over the unthemed addons menu btw? ;p13:38
timelessukki: you were expecting him to take a 2 day vacation?13:38
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timelesssts: hush13:38
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timelesswe're accepting patches :)13:38
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Stskeepsow, hit by my own "less talk more doing" principle :/13:38
timelessseriously, you wouldn't like it if we did it13:39
timelessso find someone to do it, it's just css13:39
timelessactually, time for lunch13:39
Stskeepsis there still the easy way to disable flash anywhere? :P13:39
ukkitimeless: know who handles his duties?13:39
timelessthe find item from the n800/n810 days is gone13:39
suihkulokkiukki: ask tekojo13:39
timelessso you have to use the addons thing and select disable13:39
timelessukki: sorry, i'm here to heckle13:40
timelessfor general problems, file a bug13:40
* timeless kicks Entourage13:40
tekojoukki what's the matter?13:41
timelesswhere's the "Please quit at your earliest convenience" button13:41
auenfwelp, i finally got around to putting my sip account into my n81013:41
gourtimeless: i've heard about moblin smart-phones as well...anyway13:41
ukkijust wondering why my app never made it into -devel13:41
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ukkiit built ok like 36 h ago13:42
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tigerttimeless: cmd-alt-esc :)13:42
tekojoukki jeremiah or Ferenc (forgot his nick...) can help13:42
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tigertor was it ctrl-cmd-esc13:42
ukkitekojo: thanks13:42
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timelesstigert: is that cancel?13:44
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kynkyi thinkk moblin got support from intel13:48
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hrwkynky: moblin was intel project ;D13:52
VDVsxukki, whats your app name ?13:53
tigerttimeless: "kill app" dialog13:53
kynkyseems intel and nokia work together on some stuff, ,
kynkydamn google13:54
RST38hkynky: This isn't exactly news13:54
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kynkyold news :)13:54
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RST38hkynky: And before you ask, no, oFono is not in Maemo513:54
kynkyor maemo6 ?13:55
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RST38hProlly not there either but that is just an educated guess13:55
Ronaldo38741timeless, when I asked about gcc, I meant:
kynkyfrom what  i read it wouldnt13:56
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RST38hFolks, anyone considered running Maemo-related meetings on Google Wave?13:56
RST38hLooks like a good platform for running brainstorms etc13:56
kynkywell i applied for google wave beta ages ago, dont think i did it soon enough13:57
TermanaRonaldo38741: its unable to install Wikipedia's Dump :P lol13:57
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VDVsxRST38h, really ? I don't like it very much :)14:07
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RST38hVDVsx: Well, it is not gonna save the world, for sure. But looks like a nice alternative to an IRC channel, as it lets you instantly share data (images, code snippets, etc)14:09
javispedrothat sounds like the description of google wave :)14:10
RST38hIt is :)14:10
VDVsxRST38h, that's true, have you tried it ?14:10
RST38hYes, just tried it14:10
RST38hjavis: I got invited to the Wavem courtesy of icebox (tmo)14:10
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RST38hjavis: Have been saying that it is worth trying to have some Maemo brainstorming session on the Wave14:11
RST38hjavis: Like wazd/qwerty/etc discussing UI/artwork for transmission for example. Or collaborative debugging14:11
VDVsxjavispedro, if you want a invite pm14:11
javispedrofrom what I've read about Wave, it seems like it's been overhyped as for the "going to replace mail part".14:11
javispedrobut a good tool nonetheles14:12
RST38hBut if you remove the hype, it is basically a conference engine with ability to share data14:12
RST38hLike collective GTalk+14:12
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javispedroI guess I'll have to try it some day14:13
wazdI haven't found anything interesting in Wave presentations14:13
RST38hwell there is mostly hype there14:14
pupnik"wave" is just a name for what already happens14:15
viqRST38h: I think wave is too slow for the number of people that would be involved14:15
RST38hThe word on the net is, role players use Wave a lot14:15
* RST38h wonders if they have got a 20-sided die plugin for it =)14:15
RST38hviq: you mean they will be connecting from their n900s? =)14:15
pupnikdice roller spplet using ogl es14:16
* RST38h caught himself thinking: "Are 20-sided dice topologically possible?"14:17
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viqI heard that too. I played bit around, and it is good to push some ideas around, insert a map or a vote... but not that much more, yet, I would say14:17
viqRST38h: I find it to be slow on a desktop14:18
viqRST38h: what, you mean you haven't held one before? ;)14:18
* RST38h strokes his big black N90014:19
javispedrothe pack of cigarretes!14:19
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* viq still whines about no compass in it ;P14:20
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* javispedro 's gripe (will) be battery life14:20
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viqthat probably too14:21
viqbut you can carry an extra battery, while adding hardware inside...14:21
javispedrowell, you can get a normal compass14:21
* RST38h votes for the windup handle14:22
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* lbt complains that they don't make a pink one14:23
Corsachey JPohlmann :)14:23
JPohlmannHey there14:24
pupniksomeone made a woodgrain finish for his14:24
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auenfyou want a pink windup hangle?14:24
lbtRST38h: re D20.... absolutely not.... they're common14:24
infobotauenf meant: you want a pink windup handle?14:24
pupniksidux+xfce is my favorite 400MB distro14:25
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viqjavispedro: but you can't really make phone apps make use of normal compass14:25
lbtRST38h: ring.jpg14:25
lbterr RST38h:
* RST38h has only seen them from the distance14:26
lbtfor Myrtti ^^^14:26
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RST38hshould be pink, ideally14:26
* lbt nods14:27
pupnikfmradio needs 22.7MB if you dont like python14:27
* ukki offers to show his n900 for a pint of beer at bar iguana in helsinki, offer availabe for 2.5 h14:27
pupniki bet i could fmradio in 227 KB14:27
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auenfukki, can you wait 30hrs while i fly there?14:28
RST38hpupnik: Please do, 5.5MB looks like an overkill =)14:28
ukkifor a pint? no :(14:28
auenfyou've got no committment to your offer :P14:28
RST38hOh, so with the python core it is 22+MB?14:28
ukkii said 2.5 h :)14:29
auenfsure, and i asked if you could wait for me to get there :P14:29
RST38hand he said no, case closed =)14:29
pupnikif ukki travels in circles in the bar at 0.98 c, will auenf arrive in time?14:30
ukkilet me check my wife14:30
pupnikinto the boards!14:30
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ukkishe said if i wait for 30 h i can show it to you for a long time14:31
shdany idea how to import new certificates into N900?14:32
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shdneed a certificate for EAP MSCHAPv214:32
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auenf30h would depend on me getting a flight tonight14:32
auenfwhich is highly unlikely14:32
_marcell_shd: click on the file in the filemanager14:32
auenfiirc, flights stop going out in 30mins14:32
auenfand its 45mins to the airport14:32
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shd_marcell_: thanks14:33
shd_marcell_: it would be helpful if connection manager would tell about that :)14:33
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auenfhmm, theres a flight in 40mis14:34
auenfbut its too late to book14:34
ukkiauenf: then i will take the option of having a home to go to14:35
auenfi suggest that, i dont have a passport either, which might be a problem14:36
shd_marcell_: it did install the certificate, however, it did not show in the connection manager when i try to select the certificate. it just displays None14:36
ukkiauenf: i'm coming here next friday too14:37
ukkiso get busy14:37
avsshd, did you mark it as trusted for wifi?14:38
auenfi better order a finland based surrogate with a rush14:38
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shdavs: selected it trusted for WLAN14:39
wolfiRhi, I'm a new n900 user and I wonder how/if I can add ogg vorbis support to the mediaplayer14:39
auenfogg is in extras or extras-testing?14:39
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shdavs: it asked about the purpose: there were 3 categories: server, wlan, email14:39
shdit said, certificate installed successfully14:39
wolfiRauenf: I installed something but the player doesn't show ogg files from my upnp mediaserver14:39
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auenfwhat did you install?14:40
wolfiRlet me check14:40
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shdavs: _marcell_: tried to install this certificate
pupnikogg in extras14:40
wolfiRauenf: it's called "Ogg support"14:40
avsshd, um, you added a CA cert for authenticating the network14:41
shdavs: that's the cert file that they instruct us to use for the WPA network14:41
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avsshd, is your problem now that you want to authenticate _yourself_ to the network, or authenticate the network? Which one?14:42
kulvewolfiR: I'm the author of the ogg support but I haven't actually tested it over UPNP. It may affect the situation what the media server reports as their mime-type. It could be e.g. application/ogg or audio/x-vorbis+ogg..14:42
shdavs: authenticate myself to the network14:42
kulvewolfiR: which UPNP server are you using?14:42
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avsshd, then you need to provide your private key and your certificate. What you've probably done now is to install a new root, which is not what you want.14:43
wolfiRkulve: ok, it's a built in thing in the AVM FritzBox (common dsl modem/ap in germany)14:43
avsshd, so your network admins have provided you with a (probably) PKCS#12 envelope containing your private key and certificate. Install that, then retry.14:44
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shdavs: ack. i'll read more about this. thanks14:44
avsshd, or if you've created your private key yourself, and got it enrolled with your network CA, that's another possibility.14:45
timeless_mbp_andre__: 6138 =b14:45
shdavs: according to my friend who uses the same network on linux laptop, no personal certifiacte is needed from admins14:45
avsshd, then you're authenticating yourself with a password, right?14:46
shdavs: the idea is that one can just download the cert at the given page, and authenticate using user@domain + password14:46
shdavs: yes14:46
andre__timeless_mbp, i still don't consider it a bug ;-)14:46
eplawlessIs any of the Maemo 5 phone-related stuff accessible from within Scratchbox?14:46
avsshd, so why do you want to select a certificate then when connecting? Just give the password.14:46
timeless_mbp_andre__: give me a better place for publicly trackable feedback and i'll use it14:46
timeless_mbp_but i don't believe there is such a place14:46
shdavs: it gives me authentication failure for some reason14:47
timeless_mbp_it's a problem with the product and its connective glue14:47
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timeless_mbp_if relies on dreamhost for (which it does)14:47
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timeless_mbp_then it's imo ok to file a bug against when dh goes down14:47
timeless_mbp_it'll get assigned to me, and i'll deal w/ it14:47
timeless_mbp_similarly, if goes down14:47
timeless_mbp_then having *one* bug on noting "yes, it's down"14:48
timeless_mbp_isn't so bad14:48
timeless_mbp_it's also ok for us to say "we can't do anything about it, but we'll comment when we notice it's back up"14:48
kulvewolfiR: could you check what mime type the File Manage says? Press and hold couple of seconds on the file and you should get a menu from where you can select "details"14:49
kulvewolfiR: but I'll have to leave for a while now. Back later14:49
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wolfiRkulve: I can only test it later when I'm @home14:50
* timeless_mbp_ wtf's14:52
timeless_mbp_jeremiah: PING14:52
timeless_mbp_Stskeeps: PING14:52
timeless_mbp_andre__: maybe_ping14:53
* javispedro can't wait for the "maybe_pong" :)14:53
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timeless_mbp_please comment on line 1614:53
andre__maybe pong14:53
timeless_mbp_if you have problems getting to that url, you can get the package from maemo5 sdk14:54
Stskeepstimeless_mbp_: looks correct14:54
timeless_mbp_Stskeeps: it's correct to have 2 Source: lines?14:54
timeless_mbp_one randomly buried in the middle of a debian/control file?14:54
Stskeepsseemingily. thought it adds itself14:54
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timeless_mbpit's the *only* one that does that14:55
timeless_mbpeveryone else plays nicely14:55
Stskeepspackages (not source pkg) has Source: pointing the right place14:55
javispedroclearly it's a copy paste error I think14:55
Stskeepsso usually autogenned14:55
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ensihi, is there a way to "hildonize" a Qt QCheckBox widget? At least make it larger because out of the box its fricken tiny on the screen.14:56
woglindeensi better ask on the maemo-qt list14:56
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woglindeqt devs are only sometimes here14:56
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eplawlessIs there a way to initiate a phone call from the command line in Maemo 5?14:58
woglindeeplawless maybee possible with dbus14:58
eplawlessideally something like: phone-call 1416555555514:58
ensieplawless:maybe with a d-bus message14:58
woglindeqwerty would known14:58
eplawlessI've been looking at Telepathy14:58
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timeless_mbpok... so, i'm building the maemo5 xref now15:00
eplawlessI can't find any binaries kicking around which would do the thing I'm after. I'd need it to be a terminal command... is that possible with dbus?15:00
timeless_mbpit'll move over on sunday i think15:00
sp3000timeless_mbp: so the control file content is duplicated, that's all15:00
timeless_mbpsp3000: that's broken/evil/stupid, no?15:00
timeless_mbpi mean, obviously debian deals, but...15:00
woglindeeplawless dbus-send15:01
woglindebut you have to find out the dbus stuff to send15:01
* timeless_mbp tries to remember the correct way to send gb's of data to dh15:01
woglindepath and vars15:01
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eplawlesswoglinde: sounds promising15:02
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ensieplawless: gl15:02
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* None1 help15:06
* None1 ?15:06
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RST38hNickname did not help, I guess15:07
_marcell_shd: we use pretty much the same method, and I installed the certificate for wlan and it worked. The select cerificate in the EAP/PEAP configuration still says None however. But that would be the personal certificate, I guess.15:09
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woglindehi macer15:11
Stskeepsmorning III115:12
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timeless_mbpStskeeps, et al: is starting to grow files now15:14
timeless_mbpthe indexer is running on another computer, and the index will shift on sunday15:14
timeless_mbpoh brother15:14
timeless_mbpi wonder if it's my fault15:14
timeless_mbpthat'd suck15:14
timeless_mbpcan someone check?15:15
* RST38h rotfls a little bit15:15
timeless_mbpok. it's my fault15:15
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RST38h  <=== why, WHY not N900???15:19
woglinderst lol15:19
kalikiana"Memo 6" :P15:19
kalikianaclose enough15:19
timeless_mbpok, the gsfonts thing was my fault15:20
timeless_mbpi applied the patch twice :(15:20
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Macerneed to illegally brand my open edition zimbra install haha15:21
lbtMeh, Zimbra is closed devil SW15:22
zackyfart detection app by Nasa, I guess they would indeed be rejected :p15:22
Macerlbt: it's psuedo open15:23
Macerlike maemo :)15:23
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Macerthe open version works just as well as the network edition15:24
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CShadowRunDoes N900 have some form of HD video out? looking at the specs it only seems to have SD out15:24
Macerthe only difference is that you can't brand it and it doesn't have an exchange connector15:25
ShadowJKCShadowRun, correct15:25
ShadowJKit's same res as screen15:25
CShadowRuni'm sure i saw on videos it having HDMI out or something, oh well15:25
lbtMacer: yeah, it's pretty good really15:25
CShadowRuni assume by "Integrated GPS, Assisted-GPS, and Cell-based recievers", it means it has both a real GPS reciever, and A-GPS support15:25
lbtI just went to a presentation on it (by the owners)15:26
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lbtand they were saying how they wanted to do things like prevent people from 'supporting' the community version15:27
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lbtyeah, very 'anti-community' stance by the core commercial team15:27
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Macerlbt: well... they probably said that so people don't think it will turn into linux based garbage :)15:27
Macerlike gnome15:28
* Macer hides15:28
* lbt uses the Gnome search to find Macer.... easily15:28
lbtslaps him with a Gnome fish15:28
lbt(odd what you find in a distro)15:28
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Macerall zimbra really needs to be complete is a better doc/spreadsheet editor15:29
Macerthat works in firefox correctly15:29
eplawlessThe documentation refuses to tell me where I send my dbus phone call message to.15:29
ShadowJKCShadowRun, it has a real GPS. A-GPS means it can ask an assitance server over the internet, for the calendar and ephemeris (sp?) instead of download it from the satellites, which is slow. The "Cell-based" part just means that it can guess where it is based on what Cell it is in, and get more relevant data from the assistance server15:29
eplawlessSomeone needs to beat the hell out of it until it gives in.15:29
lbtit's a shame ... I expect to see zimbra community edition become marginalised15:29
CShadowRuncool :)15:29
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ShadowJKBut you know, the GPS antenna is stuck inside this tightly packed device, blocked in most directions by other electronics, and then the user probably blocks  the rest of the free view with his hand or body, not to mention waves the device around so that it doesn't see any one single satellite for more than a split-second, making overall performance worse than dedicated GPS units ;-)15:31
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eplawlessSo I take it the final Maemo 5 SDK release doesn't have any of the telephony stuff included at all15:51
Stskeepsit has telepathy but emulating a phone in sdk is ..15:52
eplawlessnone of the dbus services exist, I think a couple libraries/apis are missing15:52
Stskeepsi guess some of the stuff you need a device for15:53
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SpeedEvilA qemu target would be so nice in some ways.15:53
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SpeedEvilEven though toodles slower than the device15:53
SpeedEvilthough oodles15:54
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ShadowJKit's good to dev for something slower than the real thing15:55
ShadowJKif you make it run fast on the slow emulator, it'll only run half-slow on the real thing once users push it beyond everything you imagined ;p15:55
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eplawlessthere's a contest to win an N900, developing a specific kind of application. The thing I'm trying to do would focus pretty heavily on the phone subsystems, which I apparently need a device for.15:58
eplawlessI can't get the device until I win the contest, student vow of poverty and all that. I can't win the contest unless I have the device, apparently :(15:59
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Stskeepseplawless: ask for help on i guess16:01
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JaffaAf'noon all16:04
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GiantTalkingCowAfternoon, you say?16:04
lbt'afternoon' is irc-speak for 'sleepy'16:05
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wazd <- portrait transmission mock-up16:06
Stskeepsyour current download queue? ;p16:07
frals*follwing livechat with some swedish nokia product manager*16:07
Stskeeps(at least it's not ikea..)16:07
wazdStskeeps: :P16:08
javispedroa mockup and it even includes the actual torrents :)16:08
wazdjavispedro: well, it's the best way to test UI :)16:09
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samuel_hi all.. i'm an N810 user and would like to start developing some apps for the platform16:11
samuel_i'm on ubuntu jaunty and karmic, how would i get started?16:12
Myrttisamuel_: great! have you looked into Mer?16:12
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zackywazd: pretty :)16:13
VDVsxwazd, no Ikea, no deal :)16:13
zackywazd: is this included in the next version? :p16:14
samuel_nope, sorry what is Mer?16:14
wazd <- you filthy pirates :D16:14
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wazdzacky: well, qwerty12 and me are working on it16:14
ShadowJKI guess the "official" way to proceed is to download the Maemo 4.1 SDK...16:16
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javispedrowazd: one of the seeders of that is qwerty! :)16:19
javispedrowell, I guess you knew already :)16:19
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samuel_thx Myrtti16:20
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RST38hwazd: And make 'em scroll!16:24
RST38h(I mean file names)16:24
hrwwazd_: this is transmission on n900 or remote interface to transmission?16:25
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wazd_RST38h: dunno if it's possible16:25
wazd_hrw: transmission itself16:25
RST38hwazd: Scrolling a text? Of course it is16:25
kalikianawazd_, use a pannable16:25
hrwwazd_: ;( any plans to make transmission remote controller with this ui?16:26
wazd_kalikiana: well, the idea is that you touh the item to see details16:26
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RST38hhrw: Can't you do it yourself? I mean, implementing stuff in HTML is easy :)16:26
kalikianawazd_, dialogs do that as well. hold to scroll, tap quickly to see details16:26
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VDVsxwazd_, oh :), but the furniture in the Swedish catalog is way better than the US one :)16:29
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* javispedro looks for the n900 in the ddp page... uf, it's still there. 16:30
fralshmm, this Klas Ström guy at Nokia saying all kinds of stuff in this live chat.. "just enable extras-devel to get loads of more beta apps" "USB host is available in the beta-apps catalog"16:30
hrwRST38h: or just hack default web ui until will fit ;D16:31
zaheermfrals, tech support?16:31
javispedro"apt-get upgrade to extras-devel"!16:31
mikhaswhat's wrong with the extras-devel advice? at least it's not the red pill mode16:31
Stskeepsfrals: usb host is a bit odd..16:32
fralsi think his title is product manager scandinavia or something like that16:32
RST38hhrw: Needs a different font, icons for start/stop, and additional few cells for transfer information16:32
fralsStskeeps: yeah, thought so too, and recommding average joes to enable extras-devel might not be that smart either ;o16:32
javispedroRST38h: what, no ikea catalogs?16:32
hrwjavispedro: but still not shipped?16:33
javispedrohrw: not shipped and not emails that I know of16:33
hrwjavispedro: but ordered?16:34
* javispedro has not yet16:34
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* RST38h hits javispedro with an Ikea catalog16:35
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* RST38h looks at the result critically, then adds a phone book for the good measure16:35
javispedroI am the medium, I am the message, I am the IKEA 2010 CATALOG!16:36
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* GiantTalkingCow takes out a flamethrower to burn the catalog.16:38
aSIMULAtergot the go ahead to go to barcelona, see you guys there! :)16:39
hrwbtw - when it comes to Qt on maemo5 is Phonon also supported?16:39
javispedrosee you aSIM!16:39
javispedro(hopefully :P )16:39
aSIMULAterit would be great to meet the guy who made the app that i use the most :P16:40
aSIMULAterjavispedro :D16:40
* javispedro hides16:40
zaheermhrw, no16:41
zaheermhrw, phonon is deprecated by the qt people16:41
zaheermhrw, you should use gstreamer directly16:41
javispedrowhat about qt mobility multimedia api?16:41
hrw - argh!! why those #@$@^@$^@ admins still did not fixed sorting!@!@!@16:41
hrwzaheerm: que?16:41
zaheermjavispedro, far from ready and pretty shit really16:42
javispedrousing gstreamer glib api directly from a qt app....16:42
Stskeepsno paypal, i'm not in russia.16:42
zaheermjavispedro, what's the issue? :)16:42
hrw exists16:42
zaheermhrw, it's there but unsupported16:42
VDVsxhumm, seems that our beloved friend Eldar is now a big motorola fan, lol16:42
javispedrozaheerm: well, doesn't look "right" -- but just that, I know it's perfectly usable16:42
zaheermhrw, the qt guys have deprecated it16:43
RST38hOk, whoever wants Transmission web control interface with wazd's style, continue hacking on
RST38hIt defines the general layout but requires more work of course16:43
zaheermjavispedro, ideally someone should write real qt bindings for gstreamer16:43
zaheermjavispedro, but noone from the qt camp has put any energy into them16:43
hrwzaheerm: so I wonder how now they want to provide transparency on different platforms? gstreamer on each? osx/win32/linux/bsd?16:43
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zaheermhrw, gstreamer is fine on all of those16:43
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javispedroideally, what about a qt-like api generator from glib-like apis16:44
zaheermjavispedro, yah they could use data from gobject-introspection16:44
javispedroor even just grab whatever Vala uses16:44
zaheermjavispedro, makes it very easy to generate bindings16:44
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hrwzaheerm: good to know16:45
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andre__hmm. is there a nice term for the menu you get when pushing the On/Off hardware button, contrary to the "Statusbar menu"?16:46
javispedro^^ qt mobility multimedia (just if you're interested to read something about it, I've not tried it)16:47
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fiferboyqwerty12: We just got another citizen :P16:49
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hrwzaheerm: in Qt 4.6-snapshot docs I do not see note about deprecating Phonon16:49
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samuel_deprecating phonon? why would we ever do that?16:50
RST38handre: "Please-die menu"16:50
javispedronot deprecating16:51
javispedrobut just it seems it's not going to be the "beloved" son anymore16:51
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RST38hfiferboy: BTW, what is Canadian procedure for lynching? Do you use maple syrup and goose feathers? =)16:51
andre__RST38h, you're a user and not a very tech term savvy guy, eh? ;-)16:51
zaheermsamuel_, because the api is crap, doesn't cover basic use cases16:51
samuel_javispedro, in favor of what? please don't say gstreamer16:52
fiferboyRST38h: That sounds about right16:52
RST38handre: Just providing a functional description based on what I use that menu for =)16:52
javispedrosamuel_: according to a random blog post I'm searching right now, qt mobility multimedia16:52
* RST38h hides, just in case fiferboy decides to demonstrate =)16:52
zaheermqt mobility multimedia is meant to "replace" phonon16:52
zaheermbut is also not a great API16:52
zaheermif you need to do anything serious, you should use gstreamer directly16:53
* fiferboy has four jugs of syrup at home, goes to collect some goose feathers16:53
javispedro<samuel_> javispedro, in favor of what? please don't say gstreamer16:53
javispedro<fiferboy> RST38h: That sounds about right16:53
javispedro<RST38h> andre: Just providing a functional description based on what I use that menu for =)16:53
javispedro<andre__> :-D16:53
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samuel_oh ok.. i did see that about qt mobility etc... yes.. it not to replace but to supplement i guess16:53
suihkulokkigraah, so in other words no sign of sanity in the linux audio space for anytime near?16:53
javispedroread that ^^16:53
kynkyalsa oss4 pulseaudio ?16:54
zaheermthat is the blog post talking about the death of phonon16:54
zaheermkynky, multimedia is more than just audio output :)16:54
kynky<suihkulokki> graah, so in other words no sign of sanity in the linux audio space for anytime near?16:55
* mgedmin wants firmware updates16:55
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kynkyi do understand the multi in multimedia :)16:55
mgedminhey, who broke maemo extras-devel again?16:55
zaheermmgedmin, yah would be nice :)16:55
fiferboymgedmin: Have you done the NSU update?16:55
zaheermwe were told not to do the NSU update16:56
hrwI just want Qt to be able to play all my media formats nevermind what it will be16:56
* RST38h once again proposes to cleanse Linux audio space of false, transient gods16:56
mgedminfiferboy, no, how?  I go to the NSU page, enter "n900" as the model, get zilch16:56
zaheermhrw, use gstreamer then :)16:56
fiferboyWorked fine for me.  At least it SAYS it updated firmware and wiped the device16:56
hrwxm,it,mod,s3m,mp3,ogg,flac,aac,h264 etc16:56
RST38hLet the /dev/dsp reign unchallengedm for it is the key, it is the gateway, etc16:56
hrwzaheerm: Phonon uses gstreamer and thats fine for me16:56
fiferboymgedmin: Yeah, If you disable flash on that page there is a direct link to download ;)16:56
kynkyzaheerm, i created a multimedia player in C++ in my final year project for uni16:56
zaheermhrw, it uses gstreamer badly16:56
zaheermhrw, noone maintains the phonon-gst backend16:57
hrwzaheerm: it plays so for me it is enough16:57
RST38hfiferboy: is it safe?16:57
mgedminfiferboy, there's a download link for some windows .exe thingy16:57
fiferboySome people say no, but I had no problem (once I bought a SIM card :()16:57
mgedminI want SSU!16:57
fiferboymgedmin: Yeah, NSU is a windows program16:57
mgedminplus an image, for emergencies16:57
fiferboyAn image would be a good security measure, in case the NSU decides to cack16:58
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fiferboyAll that being said, I see absolutely no difference except for the version number in "About Product"16:59
mgedminsome bugs were supposedly fixed16:59
RST38hHmm....Maemo5 Products voting troubles continue17:00
RST38hSomebody just voted on Sliderule, 9 times in 2 minutes17:00
javispedrobugs fixed? omg thats frontpage material17:00
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zaheermfiferboy, do: gst-inspect dspvdec17:01
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zaheermfiferboy, and check what version of the dsp video decoders are on the release firmware17:01
zaheermhopefully they fixed a few bugs in them17:01
fiferboyFor the DSP plugin17:02
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zaheermsame on mine17:02
zaheermso they didn't17:02
zaheermguess have to wait until the december release for improvements there17:03
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fiferboyAssuming that the NSU worked properly on "non-final" hardware17:03
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RST38hfiferboy: So, all the usual bugs are in the new firmware as well?17:04
RST38hfiferboy: What does XTerm app menu look like for example?17:05
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fiferboyI haven't been using it long enough to tell, but I haven't had the "USB charging doesn't work" bug yet17:05
fiferboyRST38h: "New" and "Font"17:05
RST38hsame then... hmm17:06
fiferboyI'm starting to think the NSU might not actually have applied any changes...17:06
fiferboyExcept for the product info17:07
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RST38heasy to check with dpkg -L17:07
JaffaProduct info comes from cal17:07
mgedminI find that hard to believe17:07
mgedminokay, Jaffa convinced me17:07
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JaffaReflashing that whilst not changing anything else sounds feasible17:08
fiferboyAt least it didn't brick my phone :)17:08
mgedminhm, I don't see any packages with version numbers resembling the old one17:09
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mgedmincould it be that our amsterdam image does not support SSU?17:09
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* mgedmin tried dpkg -l|grep 41-1017:10
* mgedmin tried dpkg -l|grep rx17:10
mgedminnothing that looks like "this is a metapackage that depends on the right versions of all core system components"17:10
fiferboymgedmin: I thought I read somewhere that SSU wouldn't be usable until the device had a full reflash, but I might have been dreaming17:10
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RST38hfiferboy: correct17:12
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RST38hmgedmin: your amsterdam image does support ssu, but the changes in the production image lie lower than ssu17:13
mgedminthat's good to know, RST38h17:13
RST38hssu will only allow you to update whatever is represented with a .deb17:13
mgedminbut wait a sec, didn't the n810 have special provisions for updating the kernel/initfs via deb upgrades?17:14
RST38hI think you can still do that in n90017:14
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RST38hSo, there is some other code there that needs to be updated17:15
fiferboyHere is the post explaining that:
mgedminhm, interesting!17:17
mgedminso even NSU doesn't work17:17
mgedminI assume NSU flashes a fiasco image17:17
fiferboyYep, although the kernel version is increased17:17
javispedroI guess all you loaners are still fscked ;)17:18
fiferboySo, I'm not actually running the latest firmware17:18
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fiferboyjavispedro: Until they release a full image for flasher :)17:18
mgedminno, that doesn't make much sense17:18
mgedminmaybe NSU does something smart that requires more cooperation from the n900 than the amsterdam device can currently provide17:19
hrwquestion: is python-qt4 available for fremantle?17:19
fiferboymgedmin: Could be.  It certainly looked like it was working.  It downloaded the image, the progress bar came across in the device while flashing, the device rebooted in a clean state17:20
javispedroI guess the updating process is really diferent17:20
lcukwe should all return to amsterdam to have our devices reflashed on site17:20
javispedrofor a start it may need to write to eMMC17:20
javispedrodiablo devices didn't do that17:20
fralslcuk, send one of yours my way, ill reflash it :rolleyes:17:20
kalikianalcuk, and have more free food? :P17:20
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mgedminfrals, where exactly in sweden are you? ;)17:21
* javispedro tries google wave17:21
lcuki just wanna play on one of those scooter bikes again (H)17:21
javispedrowell, the interface looks the usual google spartan17:21
mgedminnah, too far17:21
fralsthe "right" side ;)17:21
javispedromuuuch more javascripty than the original gmail, which is something I don't like17:21
fralsall the swedish n900s seems to be down around malmö/gbg from what ive seen17:21
fralsi tried google wave the other day, my firefox did not enjoy it (neither did i :P)17:22
mgedmincloser to amsterdam :)17:22
mgedminanybody tried google wave with MicroB?17:22
mgedminI chickened out17:22
fralsid be reluctant to try wave on a netbook if how it ran on this machine is any indication17:23
aakashdhi guys, is it ok to promote a testday on for fennec beta 5 ?17:23
aakashdit'll be just one line every two hours17:23
mgedminmaybe /topic? but nobody reads #maemo /topic, it's too long17:24
fralsscripted ads *shivers*17:24
aakashdit's not scripted17:24
lcukaakashd, is fennec in extras-testing yet?17:24
aakashdi do it manually :)17:24
lcukcos you can have testing all day every day if it is17:24
aakashdlcuk: beta 5 should be available in extras17:24
mgedminaakashd, personally I'd prefer to see such announcements on planet.maemo.org17:24
lcukextras-testing is the path to extras17:24
aakashdmgedmin: we have set up a fennec blog on maemo17:24
aakashdthere should have been an announcement about it17:25
aakashdactually, not testdays sorry17:25
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fralsmentioning it here once in a while would be cool so people are aware thou17:25
aakashdwe didn't promote them through the blogs associated with maemo17:25
mgedminaakashd, I noticed a flurry of fennecy posts lately, but I think they've all been truncated to 2 lines or so17:25
fralson the other hand im just a lurker so dont listen to me17:25
mgedminI don't read truncated posts17:25
aakashdlcuk: not yet, but Pavlov_ should know17:25
aakashdmgedmin: ahhh17:26
lcukaakashd, note all the apps here ;) they all need same amount of pushing
mgedminaakashd, 3g on the bus = clicking on 'original post' takes too long for me to bother, unless those two lines looked _really_ interesting17:27
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wazd_qwerty12: around?17:28
aakashdmgedmin: but then you miss out on all the cool messages about fennec :)17:28
qwerty12wazd_: Hiya17:28
fiferboyIf people are looking for things to test...17:28
* qwerty12 is in the mood to thumb things down...17:29
aakashdmozQA is holding a testday on fennec 1.0 beta 5!! Come join us in #testday on to get started.17:29
aakashdthat was the message :)17:29
* fiferboy hides the links17:29
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qwerty12Lo and behold, links appear to satify this desire!17:29
mgedminaakashd, is that now?17:29
* javispedro shoots qwerty1217:29
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aakashdmgedmin: yeah it is17:29
fiferboyqwerty12: Ha!  Too late.  I already hid them17:29
aakashdgood point17:29
qwerty12wazd_: For the love of God, Hello Kitty?!17:29
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wazd_qwerty12: that will distract people from IKEA :D17:30
javispedropeople are NEVER distracted from IKEA17:30
javispedroit's a maemo status symbol17:30
javispedrothe n900 is the best phone to download ikea catalogs17:31
mgedminis there an ikea app? there should be an ikea app17:31
mgedmin(some assembly required)17:31
qwerty12Hmm, 1.2009.42.2 is available for German N900s17:31
fiferboymgedmin: You mean to randomly generate Swedish sounding names for your products?17:31
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qwerty12If I can get it to download, may as well flash it17:31
ShadowJKfiferboy, there has to be one, i've seen chinese websites use them17:32
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lopzhey ;)17:34
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qwerty12For all NSU haters: and
mgedminwhat's that nanifirm thing?17:47
qwerty12Downloads the firmware images from the NSU servers. NSU refused to believe I had a phone connected, and Nokia are taking their sweet time releasing the images themselves17:47
mgedminI don't suppose there's a linux version...17:48
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Stskeepsqwerty12 = best source of counterfeit17:48
Corsacthere's no e900 firmware available17:49
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ShadowJKlol, e90017:49
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wazd_I really don't get what's happening with DDP18:06
mgedmina deafening silence18:07
wazd_it chats with everybody except me18:07 - is this e-mail correct?18:09
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Stskeepswazd_: heh, someone has my stskeeps user name and i'm quite sure it isn't me :P18:09
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wazd_Stskeeps: lol18:10
fiferboyStskeeps: That happens to me periodically too18:10
Stskeepsfiferboy: i have a very unique nickname. except for some turk and one malaysian which likes my nick from my ircd days.18:10
w00t_you can imagine how unique mine is18:11
w00t_..not :-(18:11
wazd_wazd is damn unique too :)18:11
* mgedmin gave up trying to claim 'mg' everywhere18:11
* qwerty12 will make it a new year resolution to say "w00t" on #maemo once a day, just to annoy w00t.18:11
w00t_qwerty12: i'm very much used to it by now18:12
* mgedmin had the brilliant idea of combining the first two letters of his given name and surname and trying to claim 'mage'18:12
w00t_I usually just jump in with a humerous quip whenever it happens and other than that, ignore it18:12
* mgedmin discovered it was already taken, for some reason, usually18:12
wazd_Radio Station WAZD 88.1 FM Savannah TN18:12
qwerty12w00t_: Damn :(18:12
wazd_HAAA :D18:12
w00t_wazd_: did you get the military stuff sorted btw?18:12
wazd_w00t_: yep, at last18:12
w00t_good :)18:13
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Milo-with maemo's map program, can you save locations and add actions to them?18:13
mgedminMilo-, I didn't see anything like that in ovi maps, no18:13
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cehtehlike automaticaly opening the garage door when you approach home?18:13
mgedminmaemo mapper is not out yet for fremantle :/18:13
wazd_Wazd Abdol | Facebook18:14
wazd_oh my, it's a name!18:14
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Milo-cehteh like launchingg a program with parameter from the saved location18:15
Stskeepswazd_: time to change name to Wazd Dezign or something18:16
Milo-for example my bus-stop application seeks for next 5 busses that reaches a given busstop18:16
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Milo-so saving those bus stops in the map application is handy18:16
Milo-but how about taking the saved name as parameter and sending it to the request app I wrote?18:17
Stskeepsam i weird for feeling like application manager should be under settings?18:17
RST38hOh shit, I am now getting those "page has been commented" in batched of 10-1518:18
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wolfiRkulve: I have checked what file type is displayed for the ogg files in the file manager (from upnp server) and it's "Ogg multimedia file"18:18
RST38hSomebody, please, fix this!18:18
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wolfiRkulve: I also confirmed that I can see and play ogg files locally18:18
qwerty12RST38h: Add to your spam list =)18:19
RST38hqwerty: This navifirm thing looks sweet, mind if I use it on my wife's 5800? ;)18:19
RST38hqwerty: I still suspect someone is running a bot to vote Maemo5 apps down18:19
cehtehbtw garmin has this nice theft protection that you can only unlock the device at a given location18:19
kulvewolfiR: I have some UPNP server as well. I'll try with that at some point18:19
cehteh(after a coold reboot and some password fails or so)18:19
qwerty12RST38h: Have Phoenix installed? ;)18:19
RST38hqwerty: At least it comes in waves characteristic to some script kiddie idly pressing a button18:20
qwerty12RST38h: I blame Android-lovers18:20
kulvewolfiR: if you want, you could file a bug report to against ogg-support, so I can't forget this ;)18:20
RST38hqwerty: Not yet, but I would rather use Phoenix than whatever Nokia suggests for normal users (PC Suite?)18:20
wolfiRkulve: ah, will do18:20
RST38hqwerty: I blame some Oct2009er finally losing his mind on tmp18:20
RST38hqwerty: The Tentacled One claims another victim of his human brains diet18:21
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qwerty12That bastard18:21
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fiferboyw00t!  My N900 actually gets GPS connection with a SIM18:27
fiferboy(apologies to w00t ;)18:28
lbtyeah... but it then tells yoy you're in Canada.... nm :)18:28
fiferboyActually, it says I am underwater in Scotland...18:30
w00t_fiferboy: ;-)18:30
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ShadowJKomg, the loch ness monster has a n900?18:31
Corsacscottish waters sources are famous :)18:31
lcukRT: @fiferboy arriving at davey jones' locker.  bigger than i expected18:32
* Stskeeps wonders if gpxview does caching18:33
fiferboyMy brother-in-law was born in Canada, grew up at Loch Ness, and lives in Wales.  He sounds like Shrek18:33
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Ronaldo38741Poor, poor man18:34
qwerty12Yeah, "born in Canada"...18:34
Ronaldo38741"lives in Wales"18:34
* fiferboy calls in a hit on qwerty1218:34
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lardmanbye chaps18:40
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fiferboythp:  The tag clous looks amazing!  I have been looking for something like that!18:42
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zaheermthp, i am ready to add a subscribe to feed in zoutube19:10
zaheermthp, what do i need to do to get it integrated with gpodder?19:10
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KMFDMsomeone got OOo working on the n90019:14
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Messijuego de boxeo online
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kalikianaKMFDM, easydebian? :)19:15
kalikianait's in the repos19:15
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tarilN900: only landscape mode for applications?19:53
woglindexrandr isnt working?19:53
Stskeepsportrait for the apps that tell the system they support portrait19:54
tarilso am not worry anymore :)19:54
tarilwhat about compiz?19:55
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tarilwommby effect etc :)19:55
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Stskeepsthe hildon desktop is quite good at the effects it needs to do19:56
Stskeepswithout sacrificing usability19:56
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aakashdmozQA is holding a testday on fennec 1.0 beta 5!! Come join us in #testday on to get started.20:02
fiferboywobbly effect would only be useful if you could move windows :)20:02
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felipecanybody familiar with mafw?20:07
Xisdibikfiferboy: what if you could shake the n900 and it would wobble your screen? ;)20:08
fiferboyXisdibik: That would be awesome!20:08
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Xisdibikfiferboy: though it might make it hard to read when your uising your n900 as a GPS while offroading in your truck ;)20:10
Xisdibikhas anyone been confirmed to have recieved there n900 aside from the 300?20:11
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dmj726put one in my hands and I'll say yes!20:12
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wazd_ok, now I can oficcialy say to DDP - fuck you, whale.20:14
Stskeepsno answer?20:14
wazd_yep, they just ignore me20:14
Stskeepssucks :/20:14
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zaheermfelipec, i found a video that gives create_node: dsp node create failed when playing a video20:14
zaheermfelipec, you want me to provide you with the video?20:15
woglindehi felipec20:15
felipeczaheerm: sure20:15
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felipecwoglinde: hi there :)20:15
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wazd_damn, I'm so pissed20:16
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woglindewazd whats up?20:16
crashanddie_Hi guys, does anyone have the pinout of the I2C connector behind the battery?20:16
crashanddie_(and the other bunch of connectors)20:16
wazd_even google gave me an invite to wave from VDVsx in 1 hour instead of one week20:17
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RST38hwazd: email qgil maybe?20:17
wazd_RST38h: no answer20:17
Stskeepsdoes your e-mail work?20:17
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wazd_RST38h: I assume he's all in that Barcelona stuff20:18
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wazd_RST38h: I e-mailed him like a week ago or so20:18
lbtwhat "product" does an SDK bug go under?20:18
zaheermfelipec, ok emailed you with the url to get the file20:18
crashanddie_qwerty12: ?20:19
lbtRST38h: d'oh my bookmark had already gone to Applications... ta20:19
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fiferboylbt: There are no SDK bugs.  Those are just features to work around and make you a stronger person.20:19
qwerty12crashanddie: No idea20:20
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lbtuh huh... binary doesn't have required .so ?20:20
woglindewho wants wave?20:20
lbtlets see them wiggle away from that one...20:20
woglindehm same people who wanted orkut20:20
woglindeor gaymail20:20
crashanddie_qwerty12: oh dude :( You always have the fancy documents people need :(20:21
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fiferboyIt is a common belief that qwerty12 is powered by google.  In actual fact, google is powered by qwerty1220:29
fiferboyIf qwerty12 doesn't know it, it can't be known20:29
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: you're right, g_nokia needs more magic than that20:39
Stskeepsfor usbnet20:39
felipeczaheerm: I don't think we support DivX 5... we only support the versions similar to MPEG-420:39
zaheermfelipec, it shows it in the caps20:39
zaheermfelipec, and it links fine20:39
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felipeczaheerm: ok, I guess we do then :)20:40
zaheermvideo/x-divx divxversion: [ 4, 5 ]20:40
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: :). Is g_ether not present on the device?20:41
zaheermfelipec, does the file reproduce it on your n900?20:41
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felipeczaheerm: it took a long time to download (unzipping now)20:41
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: correct20:41
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felipeczaheerm: whoo, that's 720p, it's unsupported20:42
zaheermit'd be nice for it to error out a little nicer then :)20:42
felipeczaheerm: indeed, can you file a bug report?20:43
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zaheermbug files, thx for preliminary answer20:47
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pupnikwe have tablet-encode20:59
RST38hwhich calls mencoder anyway20:59
felipecffmpeg is better :)21:01
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XisdibikHey guys, random question,  Does the video player for the n900 support subtitles and different audio tracks in a single video (ie,  japanese and english or something)21:04
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dmj726Xisdibik: I can't speak to to built in video player, but vlc and mplayer are both available in the repository21:05
Xisdibikdmj726: yea, i knew vlc would be fine for it,  was wondering more for hte built in one (sorry shoulda specified)21:06
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dmj726I wish I knew21:07
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javispedroStskeeps: ping21:07
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Stskeepsjavispedro: pong21:09
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javispedroStskeeps: got an interesting mail from TI?21:09
Stskeepsme? no, did you?21:10
javispedroyeah, forwarding to you21:10
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Stskeepsyeah, that's a good mail21:12
javispedrolet's wait a few minutes before doing anything, in case he replies to your previous mail too21:12
wazd_"Dear javispedro, we want you to be our CEO" :D21:14
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javispedrowazd: lol21:16
fluff20:18:19  * Grillo hatar hus som inte har räta vinklar eftersom man inte kan använda räta ut vinklar-funktionen i OSM21:19
fluffwrong again.21:19
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ShadowJKfelipec, DivX5 should decode fine as mpeg4 though, iirc...21:21
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ShadowJKDivx6 too21:21
ShadowJKbut then there's the DivX container format, which is some abuse of .avi to add interactive-ish features..21:21
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ShadowJK"DivX 3.11 ;-)" on the other hand, is equivalent to Microsoft MPEG4 version 3, iirc, and isn't compatible with standard mpeg4 decoders...21:23
ShadowJKThough it was so popular in use that lots of DVD/xvid/divx set-top box players had to support it anyway21:23
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felipecShadowJK: yeap, that's correct, but at some point DivX stops being compatible with MPEG-4, right? Definitely DivX 7 is something else21:30
ShadowJKAtleast at one point they were claiming their "new" divx is old divx with h264 features bolted on top while remaining compatible21:31
ShadowJKbut I haven't seen any Divx7 in the wild anyway..21:31
JaffaBTW (reading scrollback) latest tablet-encode has a "--hq" mode (higher quality at same bitrate, but slower to encode) and a very cool to see "n900" preset which encodes at 800x480. Great with 720p content21:32
ShadowJKhm, should make a SmartQ preset :)21:32
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ShadowJKJaffa, is that N900 preset h264 or mpeg4?21:32
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suihkulokkipirates will always invent new incompatble formats to be leet...21:33
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JaffaShadowJK: still mpeg421:34
felipecI don't think tablet-encode is needed any more21:34
ShadowJKsuihkulokki, nah, they're still using xvid aren't they?21:34
felipecjust use FFmpeg to re-encode to whatever resolution you want, that's it21:34
Jaffafelipec: If you've got 720p HD content off the internet21:34
ShadowJKAlthough the anime people have moved on to 1080p h264 with 8-channel FLAC in mkv, with SRT or ASS softsubs..21:34
Jaffafelipec: the point of tablet-encode is to make it trivial; not everyone can remember every needed mencoder or ffmpeg option21:35
dmj726good defaults are important for avoiding nasty, awful encodings21:36
ShadowJKffmpeg defaults to speed, iirc21:36
dmj726reencoding video can produce very bad image quality if people use the wrong settings21:36
felipecJaffa: ffmpeg -i input -s 800x480 output.mp421:36
javispedrobitrate! codec!21:36
suihkulokkiShadowJK: didn't they go mkv with some h264 variant?21:37
Jaffajavispedro: +121:37
felipecjavispedro: FFmpeg uses MPEG-4 by default, so you don't to set it21:37
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ShadowJKsuihkulokki, yes, it's mostly h264+mkv. Sound varies21:37
javispedrofelipec: and which bitrate? "enough" ?21:37
ShadowJKThe most extreme example I saw was a 16 gigabyte file, and it had 8 channel FLAC :-)21:37
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felipecjavispedro: you don't need the bitrate: ffmpeg -i input -sameq -s 800x480 output.mp421:38
javispedro-sameq is default indeed iirc21:38
javispedrobut that sucks...21:38
ShadowJKdoes sameq actually work for h264 -> mpeg4?21:38
felipecit should, the quality is codec-independent21:39
ShadowJKIf it just uses the same quantizer, it'll suck, because they don't have the same meaning in h264 and mpeg421:39
ShadowJK(but it'll be more than enough for DVD->mpeg4)21:39
JosefAssadI'm probably doing something silly, but if I run python2.5 interactively I cna import PyQt4 but not if I do it from a script. Anyone know what the matter might be?
lcukwhich repo is xchatn900 in21:40
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felipecanyway, I don't see the point of tablet-encode, I prefer mine one :)
lcukfelipec, that works from linux, the official transcoder works in windows :p21:43
Jaffafelipec: I thought you said you should just use ffmpeg. NIH FTW21:43
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felipecJaffa: for the N900, yeah, but not for the N8x021:43
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JaffaThen you've not yet seen "Media format not supported" on the N900. Good for you.21:44
felipecand if you know the resolution that you want21:44
Jaffawhich is dependent on the input resolution21:44
JaffaAnyway, I don't need more users. Scratches my itch; glad you haven't got one.21:45
felipecJaffa: the input resolution? if you transcode to a resolution below 800x480, it should work21:46
ShadowJKmod 16?21:46
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felipecShadowJK: that's not needed21:46
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Jaffafelipec: and if you have a 640x362 video in some weird format?21:46
GeneralAntillesA more pointless argument you could not have come up with, felipec.21:47
felipecJaffa: ffmpeg -i weird -sameq -s 640x362 good.mp421:47
ShadowJKI encoded a few videos for someone with an N900. He reported that the built in media player coped well if the video had non-square pixels21:47
ShadowJKso you can get the aspect ratio right even if you always encode to 800x480, I'd think21:47
JosefAssadok never mind, PEBKAC21:47
lcukn900triangle pixels are best, they remind me of pizza21:48
SpeedEvilI have questions if anyone can see the difference in actual videos between 800x480 and 400x240 on a 3.5" screen21:48
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, yes.21:48
SpeedEvilAt >20cm21:48
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, yes.21:49
felipecShadowJK: there's a bug in PR1.0 for resolutions not multiple of 16, but that's fixed on PR1.121:49
lcukn900800x480 is overkill battery and bandwidth wise21:49
dmj726Oblong pixels are best21:49
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microlithI like pixels of irregular shape21:49
GeneralAntilleslcukn900, I disagree.21:49
lcukn900the tv shows dl are normally not that res anyway21:49
microlithmakes life interesting21:49
JaffaSpeedEvil: short sightedness can be an advantage.21:49
* wazd_ 's close to the "deadly drunk" mode21:50
felipeclcukn900: you can play WVGA videos for more than 6 hours on the N900 AFAIK21:50
lcukn900well thats a shock21:50
lcukn900cos with screen on mid bright i watched between 3-4 episodes per battery21:50
lcukn90042mins each21:50
SpeedEvilJaffa: I have a short sighted left eye, which is of use in this situation.21:50
felipeclcukn900: MPEG-4?21:51
lcukn900just checkiing21:51
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lcukn900im not on latest latest flash yet but im watching everytime21:51
* GeneralAntilles chucks at a "Niels" pulling out the definition of guru on maemo-guru21:51
lcukn900i have lots of similar movies21:52
lcukn900and have been travelling with device quite often so take some eachtime21:52
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: x-fade not staying offline? :P21:53
lcukn900624x352 xvid avi mp3 audio21:53
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felipeclcukn900: well, the only heavily optimized decoder we have is MPEG-4... but most probably H.264 will perform similarly soon21:53
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, dunno, he set his URL to "" and it doesn't really match his style.21:53
GeneralAntillesNot sure what other Niels it could be, thoug.h21:53
lcukn900350 mb movies dl weekly21:54
felipeclcukn900: that's not right then21:54
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lcukn900yeah felipec i was trying it based on regular movies without transcoding21:54
lcukn900i never expected super optimized for em and keep pondering transcode21:54
Xisdibiklcukn900: how long do you get with music playback?21:54
lcukn900i dont listen to audio often21:55
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felipeclcukn900: I'm thinking the problem could be the resolution not being multiple of 16, which is triggering an extra memcpy21:55
ShadowJK"the Bluetooth freezes up and disconnects the headset, but still shows that it’s connected onscreen."21:55
ShadowJKShoudl have used CSR :(21:55
lcukfelipec i am getting update v soon and will check21:56
lcuktheres other things on this machine which might be contributary21:56
felipecer, sorry, I meant the buffersizes not being multiples of 128 (DSP limitation), but actually in this case it is21:56
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lcuki never gave the time a second thought though21:57
lcukjust ahhh time to change battery21:57
lcuknormal times without sitting for hours watching movies isnt even an issue21:57
GiantTalkingCowGeneralAntilles: That 'not a phone' blurb is pretty on target.21:58
Xisdibiklcuk: with your average use, does your battery last all day?21:58
Xisdibikhow about 2 days?21:58
lcuki dunno i have a charger at my dock so when im working its charging21:59
lcukbut ive done that since n81021:59
Xisdibikhow long does it take to charge the battery roughly21:59
* lcuk shrugs21:59
lcukdepends on where im gettin juice from22:00
Xisdibikwell, wall and comp,  u can give 2 times ;22:00
lcuki could if i cared enough to log it22:00
lcukbut i dont its always ready and waiting fully charged when i need it22:01
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wazd_lcuk: <- that's why you don't need any sophisticated hacks for more vertical space22:02
Xisdibikis it safe to leave it on the charger when ur not using it away from the desk,  ie if i left it on the charger overnight, or is that gonna wear the battery down more than just charging it up when i need to for the time it needs to charge fully?22:02
pupnikconboy is the siye a maemo app "should" be - 95kB22:02
GeneralAntillesXisdibik, about 30 minutes to 80% then 2 hours to 100% on the included charger.22:02
GeneralAntillesMuch more if you're using regular USB.22:02
lcukn900x if its not safe theres something wrong22:02
GeneralAntillesXisdibik, yes, it's safe.22:02
qwerty12_N810pupnik: The funny thing? I actually use it, compared to the Notes application the N900 comes with22:03
GeneralAntilleswazd_, make the progressbar thicker, please.22:03
XisdibikGeneralAntilles: thanks :)22:03
GeneralAntilleswazd_, can you colorize the icons for seeders/leachers and up/down, too?22:03
GeneralAntilleswazd_, something soft and pastel.22:03
lcukn900wazd my device lives in landscape most of the time22:04
Xisdibikis wazd_ making a torrent app for the N900?22:04
wazd_GeneralAntilles: the idea is to follow theme color22:04
lcukn900and if you kept the bar where it is and rotated the icons within it the space is retained22:04
GeneralAntilleswazd_, the icons are way too small to see at 3.5"22:05
GeneralAntilleswazd_, color will help with that.22:05
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wazd_GeneralAntilles: icons are almost the same size as the statusbar ones22:06
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GeneralAntilleswazd_, just TRY the colors?22:06
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lcukn900save screenshot rotated so i can see it in context on device plz22:08
wazd_GeneralAntilles: once again, something soft will be invisible on the white background, something bright will look like christmas tree :(22:08
wazd_Xisdibik: well, it's more of a remake22:10
lcukn900thx wazd that looks like it will work well on device :D22:13
lcukn900rotation is wrong way tho lol22:13
qwerty12_N810That version is dubbed the "El Coq Edition"22:13
lcukn900even works with jpg resolution reduction22:14
cehtehbtw how is javascript performance, does fennec use tracemonkey?22:15
lcukn900i dont quite understand usage case for needing mobile torrentz lol, but the layout format certainly fits22:15
mfinklecehteh: yes, fennec does use tracemonkey22:15
GeneralAntilleslcukn900, have you even been away from a computer and needed to download something?22:15
cehtehi am using a tiddlywiki as personal notebook on my laptop .. on a n900 that would be even more awesome when it performs well22:16
XisdibikWhy are you downloading Hello Kitty :P22:16
lcukn900wazd tho change the percent bar color.   the white is brighter than the other stuff and looks like a sep rather than ui22:16
lcukn900gen never22:16
RST38hlcuk: leave n900 overnight on the charger, then take it with you and watch the freshly downloaded movie22:16
GeneralAntilleslcukn900, well, then it's clear why you wouldn't see a use. :)22:16
lcukn900not through torrent22:16
RST38hseems like a straightforward use case to me22:17
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GeneralAntilleswazd_, yes, that looks good.22:17
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lcukn900gen its rare i think "omg i need that ikea catalog NOW!"22:17
Xisdibikwazd_: Are you relaly download Hello Kitty? :p22:18
wazd_Xisdibik: sure22:18
Xisdibikwazd_: why? :P22:18
wazd_Xisdibik: what's wrong with it?22:18
wazd_Xisdibik: I'm a big fan22:18
Xisdibikah ok22:18
wazd_Xisdibik: :D22:18
Xisdibikis it a movie a game or what?22:18
wazd_Xisdibik: just kidding :D22:18
lcukn900wazd which is the selected one22:19
wazd_lcukn900: none22:19
lcukn900ie you tap once then click mag glass icon22:19
lcukn900how do you show which is sel22:19
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wazd_the main purpose of mobile torrent client is to download torrents in silence22:19
anapospastoshi guys22:19
wazd_lcukn900: you tap the item and see it's properties22:20
lcukn900didnt someone get on with live streaming via torrent22:20
lcukn900so whats mag glass for22:20
wazd_lcukn900: you don't need to select anything22:20
wazd_lcukn900: to search thru the list22:20
lcukn900whats the left hand icon for22:20
wazd_lcukn900: I guess22:21
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wazd_lcukn900: that's arrangement, wip :)22:21
wazd_and plus is for adding torrents22:21
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lcukn900i got that one lol22:21
lcukn900how to remove items?22:22
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wazd_GeneralAntilles: how are the bars now?22:22
lcukn900is it like liqcal with open details and close from there?22:22
wazd_lcukn900: tap on item - delete22:22
lcukn900delete o_O does that del files? torrent clients have annoying thing of difference between remove torrent and remove files22:23
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wazd_lcukn900: I think it's easy to ask user what to do22:23
wazd_lcukn900: Like every sane torrent client does22:24
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HoganGAteIn N900 maemo, is it possible to write & compile C programs on the phone itself ?22:24
lcukn900hell yeah22:24
HoganGAtegreat :-)22:25
lbtin haskell too22:25
wazd_HoganGAte: you can even cook dinner while doing it22:25
lcukn900apt-get install build-essential  (with correct reppo)22:25
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lbtand listen to music22:25
Xisdibikwazd_: in that second pic with color for the torrent app, are the seeders blue and leechers purple?22:26
lbtthough some kind of rap would be best given how jittery it's likely to be22:26
lcukn900nahhh lbt22:26
wazd_Xisdibik: seeders - S, peers - P22:26
lcukn900we need a morracas app22:26
lbtlcukn900: how smooth is music in a compile?22:26
lcukn900and a trianle app22:26
lcukn900i dunno22:26
lbtjust wondered22:26
lbtit's a bit jittery in a few situations...22:26
lcukn900cant tell right now im on wrong machine22:26
lbtthey should renice the player22:27
Xisdibikwazd_: are the colors for S and P the same or not, ?>22:27
lcukn900nahh lbt22:27
choppain gstreamer (gst_element_factory)...where are available GST_ELEMENT_FACTORYs defined? didn't get that..22:27
wazd_Xisdibik: no, S - blue, P - purple22:27
lbtHoganGAte: are you interested in developing for Maemo?22:28
wazd_Xisdibik: do you have grayscale display or something? :D22:28
Xisdibikwazd_: yea i thought as much,   unfortunately for me, and probably some oter people in the world.   Im color weak with red and green,  unless i look very close, they look the same :/22:28
wazd_Xisdibik: oooh22:28
wazd_Xisdibik: sorry then22:28
lcukn900wazd user might be working in greyscale22:28
lcukn900as is22:28
wazd_Xisdibik: what colors do you suggest to fix this?22:28
wazd_lcukn900: I have that option on my display22:29
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HoganGAtelbt: I would like to some day, but not at the moment :-) . Thanks for asking though :-)22:29
lbtnp... this is the place when you do ;)22:29
lcukn900wazd i thought for ages i would only get liqbase in greyscale22:30
HoganGAteokay :)22:30
lcukn900its actually quite cool and preoptimized for use  on eink displays22:30
lcukn900does xchat minimize properly22:31
wazd_greyscale world is boring, how dogs can live with it :)22:31
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Xisdibikwazd_: its np, i can see red and green just not certain shades22:31
Xisdibikwazd_: I would say not similar colors,  Blue / Purple are close, at least those shades22:32
Xisdibikwazd_: maybe green for seeders   red for peers?22:32
Xisdibikthe red and green you use for the upload download speeds is easily distinguishable for me22:32
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wazd_Xisdibik: download is orange actually :)22:33
Xisdibik:P close enough!22:33
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HoganGAteTotal Amount of Bandwidth being Used Currently: 0B22:34
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lcukn900mmm xchat said it could minimize to tray22:45
lcukn900but then vanished22:45
fralshmm, wonder how im suppose to get a hold of the port of my providers mmsc22:45
lcukn900dunno frals22:46
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fralsit should be available in those APN settings that you can get sent to your phone i guess22:47
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ShadowJKmy provider has them in a wiki too22:48
lcukn900thats not really an end user solutioon22:49
Macerbsg the plan is pretty good22:49
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ShadowJKIt usually is the end-user solution. My operator often gets the settings for a specific phone model long after people started buying them, so people go find the settings manually..22:50
lcukn900my gran cant22:50
Maceri'm a little confused. do the cylons not use atomic bombs that have fallout or something?22:51
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Macerbecause humanity sure does seem like it is pretty immune to radiation22:51
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dmj726most of the bombs seem like mini nukes by today's standards22:51
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ShadowJKMacer, you know, the biggest nuclear bomb ever detonated was also the cleanest nuclear bomb :-)22:52
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lcukn900macer not everyone had high exposurewhat was odd was how active earth was after22:52
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RST38hNuking the humanity is going to be good for environment, ultimately22:53
RST38hSo, all strategic thinkers should consider it!22:53
* RST38h winks22:53
lcukn900there would be enough food as well22:54
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lcukn900chickens naturally with 3 legs etc22:54
RST38hwell, plants and animals will adjust22:54
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RST38htriffids were alien!22:55
lcukn900alien is something we arent used to22:55
lcukn900someone from the future would be alien to us22:55
MacerShadowJK: heh. yeah i guess the cylons might have made fusion bombs work better22:55
Macerlcukn900: point taken :)22:56
Macerthey should have used more fissle22:56
Macerthen they could have gotten the rest with the fallout22:57
Macerthe tsar bomba's shockwave circled the globe 7 times hehe22:57
Macerhow awesome is that22:57
lcukn900almost as awesome as the fart i did a few months ago22:58
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lcukn900im sure it actually adjusted the position of the earth22:58
lcukn900tungusta had nothin on it22:58
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Xisdibiklcukn900: to join in the convo from 10 minutes ago,   i want a chicken with more nuggets ;)23:04
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fralsthat was pretty funny23:05
frals(Numb3rs' description of IRC)23:05
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GeneralAntillesfrals, I had to stop watching that show because of shit like that.23:06
lcukn900xlsd keep your nuggets23:06
lcukn900use moar chicken23:07
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t_s_osomewhat on target, somewhat off target, that one...23:07
t_s_onow if only it didnt have the typical hollywood flash animations running on the screens in the background...23:08
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jkridner|workGeneralAntilles: did you find anyone who can give a Maemo (or Mer or Mamona) on BeagleBoard presentation at the Nov 17 community talks (
ShadowJKMacer, seems US occupied both atom bombed cities after the surrender.. I guess they weren't too worried about any fallout23:08
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jkridner|workWhat about you, Stskeeps?23:09
Macerwell. by the time they got there.. most of the fallout had been lowered23:10
lcukn900my irc beeps like the numbers thing everytime some1 mentions bacon23:10
Macerbut radiation is strange. some people can be exposed to high levels and live and some die in days23:10
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XisdibikI really love bacon23:11
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* lcukn900 gets a screenshot23:11
SpeedEvil I really love bacon too23:11
Stskeepsjkridner|work: mm, i guess i can - maemo on non-nokia devices as title?23:11
* lcukn900 traces your location23:11
XisdibikI think we need more people to say if they like bacon :023:12
Macerwell. downloading 60GB in one shot23:12
Macerfun fun. going to test the limitations of this comcast line :)23:12
jkridner|workStskeeps: that is a good one.23:12
jkridner|workI'm also interested in just cool new maemo app/kernel/etc. community work.23:13
jkridner|workIt is still open source work on TI processors, so very welcome at a TI event.23:13
jkridner|workI'd love to hear about Frets-on-Fire on N900. :)23:14
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jkridner|workTheora on the OMAP3 DSP will be presented.23:14
Xisdibikjkridner|work: i agree,    nothing would be more fun than strumming my n900 screaming lyrics to songs on a crowded train full of office workers on my way home from work :D23:15
lcukn900i make notes and play supertux and watch movies23:15
Xisdibikthats not as vocal and wild lcukn90023:17
Xisdibikwe need frets on fire so we can act crazy on the train home ;)23:17
GeneralAntillesjkridner|work, had a couple of people interested, but they were unavailable on the 17th.23:17
GeneralAntillesSo, Stskeeps it is. ;)23:17
Stskeepsjkridner|work: 20:15 UTC is a good slot if its still available?23:18
Robot101jkridner|work: does the theora work include an encoder, or is it just a decoder?23:18
derfJust the decoder for now.23:18
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woglindejo javis23:19
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Robot101damn, was wondering if we could demo a fully-free video call on the OMAp323:20
jkridner|workI think Theora on DSP is currently just a decoder.23:20
Stskeepsjkridner|work: if around that time, Carsten Munk, stskeeps and "Maemo on non-Nokia devices" covering maemo/beagle&zoom2 and mer's angle on portability23:20
derfThe encoder currently requires significantly more computational horsepower than the decoder.23:20
jkridner|workStskeeps: grab it.23:20
jkridner|workit is a wiki....23:20
derfSo if it does run on the DSP, it won't be at very high resolution.23:20
jkridner|workyou create the entry yourself. :)23:20
Robot101derf: yeah23:20
Robot101derf: well, the DSP is pretty powerful23:20
derf(howerver, there's also significantly more room for optimization in the encoder)23:21
Robot101derf: the N810 ran H263 in software and could only manage QCIF because the encoder took 70% CPU23:21
Robot101the OMAP3 DSP in comparison eats H264 for breakfast :)23:21
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derfRobot101: 430 MHz or whatever the thing is clocked at in the N900 is not terribly powerful.23:21
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derfEven if you can actually issue 8 instructions per clock.23:21
jkridner|workderf: I found that the MPEG4 SP decode that runs up around 720p is entirely on the DSP, without using any of the hardware accelerator modules.23:21
javispedrohi wog23:21
GiantTalkingCowSpeaking of the n800 series, didn't they have the capability to hardware accelerate the UI, but it went unused?23:21
derfjkridner|work: Right, you said that in #theora, earlier.23:22
jkridner|workright, forgot who was in the room.23:22
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Robot101GiantTalkingCow: 2d accelerator was slower than doing it in the CPU because the bottleneck was bandwidth to the display controller23:22
GiantTalkingCowI see.23:22
Robot101so they turned off a load of the OMAP2 dispc "acceleration" to make it go faster23:22
Robot101N810 didn't use any of the 3D stuff (PowerVR chip)23:23
GiantTalkingCowThanks for the explanation.23:23
Mouseyyou're here too!23:23
Mouseyawesomest nick evar!23:23
* Mousey pipes down23:24
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woglindeRobot101 not yet23:24
GiantTalkingCowNo matter which channel or IRC server I visit, everyone says that. Are you guys/girls all that uncreative with your own online handles?23:24
woglindeti promises to get out needed software23:24
* SpeedEvil ponders GiantTalkingSteaks.23:25
XisdibikGiantTalkingCow: nope, my name is super creative and the best of all time :)23:25
SpeedEvilXisdibik: you dropped a bannana on your keyboard?23:26
XisdibikSpeedEvil: no, i fell asleep on the keyboardf23:26
Stskeepsjkridner|work: done23:27
jjmarinHi, I'm installing the SDK for the first time. When I do start I get23:27
jjmarinbash: command not found . Any idea ?23:27
jkridner|workStskeeps: thanks!  if you could upload your slides by Monday, that would be greatly appreciated.  Just 2-3.23:28
jkridner|workThere is a video there to try to set expectations and explain how to participate.23:29
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jjmarinI'm going to try apt-get update and then apt-get install maemo-sdk-dev23:33
HoganGAterun as: she af-sb-init.sh23:34
HoganGAterun as: sh af-sb-init.sh23:34
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fralsdid you install nokia binaries in the same target you are tryin to run in?23:35
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jjmarinfrals: I think so23:36
fralsapt-get install nokia-binaries or smth like that23:36
kurtanfrals: klas ström sux :(23:37
jjmarinfrals: I'm doing fakeroot apt-get install nokia-binaries nokia-appss nokiaI23:37
mikhasuh oh, there is a maemo-sdk-dev? *cries* =`(23:37
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fralskurtan: well, probably not only his fault, but yeah, nokia sweden kinda sucks atm ;<23:38
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jjmarinfrals: you are right, I forgot to install nokia-binaries nokia-apps. thanks a lot :)23:43
fralsnp :)23:43
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Stskeepsjkridner|work: ta23:45
jkridner|workthank you!23:47
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lcukn900oooh 3g works23:47
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jjmarinThis SDK is great. I can experience Maemo 5 on my PC ;)23:52
felipecjkridner|work: any hopes of getting the IVA hardware acceleration docs public?23:52
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jkridner|workfelipec: I don't know if you caught from the #beagle IRC logs from yesterday, but the register documents seem to be publicly downloadable.23:53
jkridner|workI could only find the register docs, not anything that really covered the functionality, but it give an opportunity to ask some concrete questions (gives you a language to say I hit this bit and it did that, etc.)23:55
felipecjkridner|work: oh, not sure how useful that would be =/23:56
hcarreganao era de esperar outra coisa do melhor clube do mundo23:56
jkridner|workwell, take a look and try to come back to me with some specific questions I can try to get answered.23:58
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